20 Episode results for "Washington State Patrol"
Man snared in child sex trafficking operation inspected school buses for Washington State Patrol
"A washington state patrol employee has been arrested on allegations of attempted child rape. Kyw's ashley hiroko is following the story. She says seattle police arrested the man yesterday. Undercover detectives retargeting people involved in the sexual exploitation of minors and the unit posted an advertisement on social media police faith. The washington state patrol employee contacted an undercover detective online and that the two of them had a lengthy conversation back and forth. Please say the employee plan to gauge in sexual relations with minors in that was komo. W web reporter ashley. Who ruko talking. About tuesday's arrest. The state patrol has placed that man on leave whose job it was to inspect school buses in a garage where no children are present. A king county judge set his bail yesterday at one hundred fifty thousand dollars. He has not yet been charged.
WSP preparing for security as legislative session approaches
"As state legislators or getting ready for the start of a new session. Monday the washington state patrol is investigating. What went wrong and what can be done to prevent future security breaches like the one. That happened at the governor's mansion a couple of days ago. Here's k. u. o. w. tom bonzi on wednesday. An armed and at times. Hostile crowd of pro-trump anti lockdown protesters overwhelmed lightly guarded gate to the governor's mansion of people pushed onto the grounds. They did not try to break into the mansion itself. Were democrat jay. Inslee and the first lady were in residence. I'm glad everything worked out. Nobody was injured instantly. Says he's asked the chief of the state patrol how this could have happened and why there were no arrests for which there weren't easy answers is not going to interrupt the function of legislature ultimately. It's not going to me. A state patrol spokesperson told me. Detectives are reviewing video to possibly lodge charges later in the short term. That patrol is looking at redoing. The mansion's front gate to make it sturdier. I'm tom boxy in olympia.
'Fallen Heroes Memorial Wall' unveiled
"The washington state patrol has unveiled a new memorial to honor troopers who died in the line of duty. Kyw's austin jenkins was at state patrol headquarters today for the ceremony. Bagpipes played and members of a state of honor guard. Lifted black cloth drapes. To reveal the new heroes wall the memorial features plaques honoring each of the thirty one members of the washington state patrol who've died since the agency was founded a century ago governor. Jay inslee addressed the families and the audience. Your sacrifices that people are living today and they're going home to see their families because of the sacrifice your family has offered lou. Ann mason was one of the family members who attended her father. Joseph modlin was awake control officer. Who was killed in one thousand nine hundred seventy four when he was struck by a log truck trailer brings back a lot. But it makes me very proud. The memorial was unveiled on the hundredth anniversary of the legislature. Creating the agency. The later became the state patrol. I'm austin jenkins in olympia.
Law enforcement prepared for potential protests this week in Olympia
"This is komo news. Kim malcolm in seattle law enforcement says they're prepared for any potential demonstrations in olympia this weekend. No matter what we're going to have the personnel on hand working along with the national guard is here to assist trooper. Chelsea hodgson with washington state patrol says. They're aware of general threats to the capital but they are not monitoring any specific groups. The biggest thing is the safety of folks that are working on the capitol campus and ensuring that the democratic process is to continue moving forward governor. Jay inslee deployed over seven hundred national guard troops to the capital. This week. A small rally on monday led to two arrests. Hodgson says law enforcement will remain at the capital through next week's inauguration day.
Washington state troopers who died in the line of duty will be honored with new memorial
"The washington state patrol is commemorating. Its centennial this year. And tomorrow the agency will unveil a new memorial that honors the troopers who have died in the line of duty over the past one hundred years. Kyw's austin jenkins has this radio in the washington state patrol first century of service. Thirty one troopers died while performing their duties. The i was twenty five year old vernon fortin his death in nineteen twenty-three happened after his motorcycle collided. With another patrolman's the most recent was twenty eight year old justin schafer who has killed last year while deploying spike strips on interstate five. Two women troopers are also among the line of duty deaths now. All thirty one will be honored as part of a new heroes wall at state patrol headquarters in olympia governor. Jay inslee will join the chief of the patrol. John batiste at the formal unveiling of the permanent memorial the ceremony will include family members of the troopers who died a state patrol honor guard and bagpipes. I'm austin jenkins in olympia.
Washington State Patrol sexual misconduct case tests state oversight as police reforms near passage
"Thanks for joining us on morning edition. I'm angela king. Does washington state need tougher policies to prevent police officers who commit misconduct from staying in law enforcement. Let's central element to a bill. That's moving through. The legislature and the question is well illustrated by the case of a former washington state patrol. Sergeant named sean car car has admitted to committing sexual misconduct while on duty. But he's fighting to keep a state law enforcement certification and a hearing in his case is scheduled for this week. Joining me now to talk more about this is olympia correspondent austin jenkins and seattle times investigative reporter. Mike reicher mike and austin teamed up to report on this story and again they join us today both for your time. good morning. Good to be here. Good to have you both austin. Let's begin with the allegations against sean car. This is the first time they've been publicly released. So what are we talking about here. So car is accused of engaging in official misconduct and failure of duty. That's the technical term in this for carrying on a years long sexual relationship with a colleague. Now this colleague was a civilian employee of the patrol in. Here's what's important. Most of the sexual encounters took place. Well car was on duty in uniform and driving. His patrol car in three instances. The woman said that car tried to or succeeded in coercing her to engage in sexual activity and he vehemently denies that there was a criminal investigation. Detectives did recommend that he charged ultimately the prosecutor's office decided not to file charges. The woman was not willing to testify against him. Car did admit to engaging as well in sexting including sending sexually explicit images and videos to the woman again while he was on duty so mike what should we know about shown car he has some pretty high up connections as i understand it. He does shawn. Car is the son-in-law of the longtime chief of the patrol john batiste and cars married to Batiste daughter who herself is a sergeant with the patrol so the case has really rocked the highest echelons of the state patrol. The chief had to be walled off from an internal investigation. Pretty rare move the agency designated an assistant chief to serve as a liaison to the batiste family while while this was all going on. Okay well let's hear what the state patrol spokesperson chris. Loftus had to say about situation. This is an embarrassing shameful event and our history and series of events we understand that and for us to maintain the public trust. We have to act And exemplary fashion at all times and in this case a member of washington troll did not act an exemplary a fashion and mike Just to be clear. Has there been any evidence to suggest that car received favorable treatment because batiste is his father in law. I know there is in and austin. And i look through all the investigative records really closely for that and we did not see any austin cars admitted to violating the state patrols policies and engaging in on-duty sex. He resigned his commission with the state patrol last july. But now he's getting ready to fight the state's effort to discern. Fly him as a law enforcement officers so he has a hearing scheduled for this week. I guess the question is what kind of case is he making here. Yes so his career with the staples over but so long as he has his law enforcement certification he could potentially get hired elsewhere is attorney says that his client is a dedicated public servant that he's quote a prompt carrying and committed law enforcement officer and that he wants the opportunity to continue to be able to serve the community as a police officer. But mike you know this is an issue that we hear about time and time again both nationally and locally about officers being let go from one department but still being able to move on to another and we've seen examples of that here in our state correct. Yes we have Last year i did a story for the seattle times that looked at officers who have hopped from department department after a really serious allegations of misconduct. We found one example in officer named nick hogan who had a series of use of force incidents against people of color He was actually found guilty of violating. Somebody's civil rights for a spraying pepper spray on them while they were strapped down to a gurney and yet after all that he was still able to keep his certification. He agreed not to be an officer as part of a settlement. But he's still in good standing with the state. Okay all getting back to the situation with car. It seems in some people may see. It seems kind of hard to believe that a police officer could engage in this kind of misconduct on the job and still make the case that they should keep their certification. Why does car have a shot. In this instance the law is super narrow here in washington More sovan and other states. It only has four categories misconduct that allow for decertification. It's dishonesty use or possession of illegal drugs if officer loses the right to own a gun which is typically for domestic violence or criminal behavior conducted under what's called the color of authority and that last category could include sex while on duty but the state has to prove that the conduct was criminal Whether or not the officer was charged with a crime. And that's a pretty high bar to meet. We went back and looked at the history and the state has decertified three officers for on duty sex since two thousand three and at least one other had his case overturned on appeal. Well austin the state legislature is considering legislation to expand the authority of the criminal justice training commission. It's the first major change in what about two decades. It wouldn't affect cars case but could it have an impact on future cases like this one. Yes and you know. This is in the context of the push for more police. Accountability generally especially in the wake of high profile. Killings of people. Manolis in tacoma. George floyd in minneapolis but the changes the legislatures contemplating would go beyond just the use of deadly force. The bill pending before the legislature would allow the state commission distribute officer of their certification for a pattern of conduct that fails to meet the ethical and professional standards required of a police officer or that jeopardizes public trust or confidence in the law enforcement profession. So that's a much broader definition than currently exists under the narrow loss. Okay so potentially more authority for the criminal justice training commission a mike. How much of a game changer would this be. If the law is changed well my reporting for the seattle times last year. Founded decertification for officers. Here is really really rare there about a eleven thousand officers in washington in any in any given year about a hundred of them or fired and of those more than forty officers might be flagged by their own chiefs for decertification yet. Just thirteen of them on average certified each year and one thing that That really stuck out as we found that no officer has ever been decertified for using excessive force here in washington. Wait a second. None have been certified for excessive use of force that's right. The law is written so narrowly and the state criminal justice. Training commission is so understaffed that they they tend not to take on these cases In the changes that are coming up in the legislature. Excessive force is called out specifically as one of the reasons for decertification but like sex on duty they as the law stands. Now they would have to prove that it's criminal conduct and that is a very hard to meet your high bar to me so so it's the law does change mike. What changes are we looking at. What will the commission be able to do compared to what they are allowed to do right now. Sure this state would Have more leeway to decertify officers also. The commission itself would have more more civilians on the commission on the board. That here's these cases so you know advocates have really called for more civilian oversight of police and if the state law passes this will be a key part of state oversight all right. Well a big. Thanks to mike. And austin you can read much more of this story in today. Seattle times also online at ku o. w. dot org again gentlemen. Thank you for your time this morning. You're welcome you're welcome.
WA Republicans want fencing at the Capitol to come down
"Now to olympia where republican leaders in the state legislature are calling for the fencing around the state capital to be removed. Here's kyw's austin jenkins. The fencing went up before the start of the legislative session in response to concerns that far right. Protesters might try to the capital. Now republican leaders. Jt wilcox john brown. Say the temporary chain link fence needs to go in a letter to their democratic parts and to governor jay inslee the republicans say the fencing does not fundamentally respect the rights of the people they also want public access to the north steps of the capitol restored. And they're calling for a plan to reopen the capitol building itself to the public. Ncaa's office says it's received the letter that security decisions are made by the washington state patrol in consultation with the governor's office and capitol campus tenants state patrol says there is continued uncertainty and that the fencing will remain for now but adds that it to hopes the need for these. Temporary measures will soon conclude. I'm austin jenkins in olympia.
Judge sets conditions of release for three Tacoma police officers charged in the killing of Manuel Ellis
"Today in pierce county superior court judge set conditions of release for three tacoma police officers charged in the death of manual ellis k. Uaw's amy radel has more. All three men turned themselves into the washington state patrol. Yesterday today. they appeared in court via video from jail and pleaded not guilty in all three cases prosecutors with the state attorney general's office sought bail of one million dollars which the judge reduced to one hundred thousand dollars citing their community ties and lack of any criminal. History for the three defendants are not being released publicly. But a lawyer for matthew collins said he's living in oregon. The other to remain in washington state collins and christopher burbank are charged with second degree murder and first degree manslaughter. The third timothy rankin is charged with first degree manslaughter. Alone and his lawyer said he will argue that rankings. Role in the case was very different. The medical examiner's report said ellis died due to a lack of oxygen carved by physical restraint. He said methamphetamine. Intoxication and an enlarged heart were contributing factors. Amy radel k. u. o. w. news.
This former officer is fighting an effort to decertify him as Washington lawmakers seek to make that easier
"A desertification hearing is underway for a former washington state patrol sergeant who admitted to sexting and having sex while on duty the hearing comes as a legislature is advancing a bill. That would make it easier to certify officers for their misconduct. Here's kyw's austin jenkins as public radio in the seattle times first reported monday. Sean carr admitted to a years long sexual relationship with a worker. He would meet the woman for sex and center explicit videos and images while on duty. He denied allegations that he coerced the woman to have sex car. Who's the son-in-law. The chief of the patrol resigned as a sergeant but is now fighting to keep his state law enforcement certification his attorney. Ted buck told the hearing panel that it's a high bar to decertify an officer in washington commission must prove every element of its claim by clear convincing evidence. This is not a situation like your typical civil trial. Or it's just a preponderance of the evidence more likely than the state's criminal justice training commission alleged car committed official misconduct and failure of duty and says that decertification is appropriate and necessary. I'm austin jenkins in olympia.
WA trooper's death ruled 'line of duty'
"Nearly four years ago a pioneering woman trooper with the washington state patrol died of cancer after an extensive review. It's now been determined. The cancer was the result of her work. Making it line of duty death. Kyw's austin jenkins explains rene padgett served in the washington state patrol for nearly thirty years. She found her calling in policing illegal wrecking yards but it was work that put her in contact with highly toxic chemicals in two thousand twelve at the age of forty five pageant was diagnosed with a rare blood cell cancer. Her battle to survive and her return to work during a period of remission were covered extensively by the media as were efforts to find her a bone marrow donor but in two thousand eighteen at the age of fifty paget died leaving behind her wife and two children now following a review by the washington department of labor and industries and the us environmental protection agency. Paget's death has been deemed of duty death. Her name will be added to the national law enforcement memorial. This may her legacy lives on paget's pictures featured on semi trucks that publicize missing children as part of a program. She helped spark called homeward bound. I'm austin jenkins in olympia. And rene paget becomes the thirtieth of thirty one washington state troopers. Who died in the line of duty since the start of the agency one hundred years ago.
Avalanche deaths a grim reminder of NW's backcountry danger
"Last week fourteen people died in avalanches across the country. Making it the deadliest week for avalanches since one thousand nine hundred ten. That's a single slide. On stevens pass killed ninety six people. Hundreds of avalanches have come crashing down this month alone including one monday east snow. Kwami pass that killed. Washington state patrol veteran steve. Who'll so why has this year been so especially deadly scott. Shell is the executive director of the northwest avalanche center. Any joins us this morning for chat scott. Good morning angela. Thanks for having me so right off the bat. What's the avalanche danger. Been like around here so far this season you know. We serve a pretty large area. We cover the washington cascades. The olympic mountains and then also the mount hood area of northern oregon. There's a lot of different conditions that you can experience. So it to try to give you a one-size-fits-all answer here Would probably be a disservice. We really focus on equipping people with the forecast for them to head out. Avalanche danger can change very rapidly and it's important for people to have a good picture of the conditions they expect to encounter before they head out we. We are seeing more people venture into the back country because of the pandemic. But is there anything in particular. These less experienced back country hikers might be doing that increases the risk for them and others. It's it's really hard to tease out. How much of a role kovas playing. But i think there's no question that you can say that code is having some sort of an effect on our ability to to think clearly or maybe make sound decisions. I mean you can apply it to your own life and going to the grocery store and We're finally you get to see. Someone in person feels a little different than normal. And i think some of those differences are probably quite overt and some of them are probably pretty hard to put your finger on any key indicators. People need to be on the lookout for when they are in the back country for potential. Avalanche danger you know. There's there's a lot of new snow that's considered a red flag if there's You know a lot of new rain. That's another red flag wind. If it's very windy when you get there that should be a red flag. Probably the biggest Red flag of all is current or recent avalanche activity cracking. So if you're walking along the snow and cracks are shooting out from your snow shoes or your snowmobiler skis. that's an indicator that You've also got unstable snow and in that situation in that moment. I know it would be near impossible to go through the checklist of what do i do. What do i do but any advice to our listeners. As to what to do if you do find yourself suddenly in that position but if you find yourself in a position where you you think. There is unstable snow. You're seeing avalanche is the best thing you can do at that. Moment is to avoid avalanche train. What if i don't know the terrain. If if the if in the moment the snow starts to slide eighteen or are there any practical things i could think to do. In an instance that might help improve my chances of coming through it uninjured or alive honestly. Angela that's a. That's a hard question because there's not a really solid answer there because quite frankly there's not a lot that is left for you to do in that moment. Yeah once you find yourself in moving snow. The rest is kind of just up to where you happen to be in the in the on the slope and and lock. Have you been caught up in an avalanche yourself years ago. Yes i have experienced. What that's like i've never been buried but yeah experience being caught in an avalanche anything you recall doing in in that moment quite honestly. I don't think much of anything other than being kind of terrified Like i said there's not not a lot left You can do other than kind of hope for the best. I think it's it's natural that you're going to want to try to fight in swim and those sorts of things but but those don't really affect the outcome so you should get the forecast. You should get the gear and you should get the education before you head out into avalanche train in the mountains and you're still able to provide people with this type of information classes amid the pandemic. Yeah we have a We've launched a new website this year. There is a We've even created a new section on the website called backcountry basics so for those who are interested in getting into the back country. It's a great place to start. It helps answer some of those questions. And then we've we've moved all of our impersonal education to webinars. So there's there's a little bit of a silver lining in the cova. There is that It's a lot easier to get an avalanche awareness course now because you can do so from your own home and that is scott. Shell executive director of the northwest avalanche center.
Washington lawmakers to consider restrictions on police tactics
"Members of the national guard and the washington state patrol or keeping. Watch over the state capital in olympia. Today this is. The opening day of the new legislative session gets underway and as kyw's rail reports one of the first bills to be hurt this week will address police tactics house bill. Ten fifty four would ban police. From using tear-gas and colds neck restraints it would also restrict vehicle pursuits and the use of unleashed police dogs to apprehend someone representative jesse johnson of federal ways sponsoring. The measure was bill will set a baseline standard for except little tactics. That can be used but again it goes back to. How do we make sure that. There's an accountability and transparency in the process in the officers can do their job and community feels say. He spoke at a preview held by the washington. Black lives matter alliance. His bill is one of several proposals to change police. Regulations and oversight statewide. The alliance says the bills are the outgrowth of last. Summer's protests for racial justice. Amy radel k. u. o. w. news.
MMIW: A Conversation with WA State Patrol
"For the ones standing guard for the eagle-eyed for the knights in shining armor and for all those who support them we are grainger. You're experienced safety partner offering supplies and solutions for every industry committed to helping keep your facility safe. And your people safer call. Click grainger dot com slash safety or just stop by grainger for the ones who get it done. I'm kim shepard with caroline story. Oh and this is the scene of the crime in our last episode silent no more. We focused on the issue of and murdered indigenous women through our conversations with tribal members and law enforcement. We learned about some of the historical events that have created this wall of distrust between the indigenous community and outside agencies. But that's just one piece of this puzzle. One of the biggest concerns for the washington state. Patrols chris loftus is the lack of consistency in law enforcement practices but there are efforts being made to correct this in our recent conversation. Chris was joined by the state. Patrols to tribal liaisons howdy. Gosh and don pullen who are spearheading. The effort to earn back the trust of indigenous individuals throughout the state of washington. I am chris. Loftus creations for washington state patrol. Don 'plain travel. He's on on the eastern part of washington dc. So don. i'm curious. How did you come to be the liaison. What what's your background that you took on this role. Sure my background is that. I've got over twenty years of experience working in the tribal community. I was the ceo for the spokane tribe for about years prior to that iran their one of their social service programs for about three years and then prior to that i worked for the indian health. Service about fifteen years with a contracting officer that time so i've been working in the troubled community most of my career and are you a tribal member i am. I'm a travel citizen. And did you grow up on reservation or offers our vision i did. I grew up on the spokane reservation. Went to open the hood. School grades k through twelve. Yeah so when. I graduated from high school. I move to spokane to pursue my higher education. And that's where. I've been ever since cool so we've had chance to talk with a couple of other folks. Emily machines one of the things that she mentioned that i was curious about just getting the names of those who are missing of women who are missing from tribes in washington. State can be hard to just get a list. She said she'd been looking for a list from the yakima community for a long time. And i guess just differentiating like parsing out the names of just those who are on the reservation like is that something that is done that is in the system anywhere or not dawn and and patty have been working on for the last year of st. Patty's join it so good. That is the west side travel liaison. She has been here for about a year longer than dolls. So are privately. As on the bottom line is we've got twenty nine federally recognized tribes then there are multiple non recognize tribal communities whether they're urban or a rural many of them have their own law enforcement agencies. So you have tribal law enforcement. You have county law enforcement of state. Federal bureau new fares. Fbi for for major crimes and so the bottom line is you have a lot of systems and no one was tasked with or stepped up to the plate to kinda russell all that to the ground and just start with just a basic list. And that's what he's been working on for over a year now. Don't join her for the last few months that you want to jump in so that actually happened in march march first. We started publishing the list on our website. That list is actually been sent to the tribal law enforcement officers each monday. Since i started actually so even sending that along to them to make sure that they have that information but now we have it available to the public so washington state patrol has always had access to persons through our site program and the state attorney general has always had the hits that collects homicides right so when we were. We're all working together and we decided they're going to work on homicides at work and work the person so we don't have to reinvent the wheel but as missing persons yes. We are making public on our website available. Another thing that. I'm trying to understand and grasp is how the white house two different aspects of it. So there's the initial response when there's a crime or someone goes missing and then there is the investigation that happens later so when it comes to the initial response. How is that handled on different reservations. How is it handled. When let's say there is tribal police or there isn't tribal police whether it involves a tribal member or doesn't involve a tribal member. Maybe happened on tribal land. There's so many nuances. How do you guys figure out who's handling it. also On the reservation in washington state majority of our tries across Have their own jeff thirty. So there are able to those investigations on not all of the tribes have direct access to input into the program. So that's where it kind of breaks up a little bit. They will either put it into their system through a attack system which please don't ask me what that acronym as we live by them. I don't know any of town without gets a directly into nci c. Which is a federal national crime information center and athens in to our site system if they try can't doesn't have access to taps and they can't put it indirectly they go to the closest The county and Whilst answer the county unfortunately that Register as a tribal want Investigation registers is system as a county destination. So is there any way to differentiate that in the system at or anything like that or really really just persons identified as native american and best kind of howard racial identifiers. Okay and what happens if it's a non tribal member on tribal land who's involved with criminal. Activity against the tribe has general authority. They can do that. Investigation but many of the tribes do report money able a restriction. My now right now out the outcome oh they have. The assistance of the fbi is in there. And i know that they were with the county in the city as while that goes to the challenge that there are differing situations and from different locations different counties in law enforcement. Consistency is the key to success. I know in the movies. It's always some brilliant person doing out of the box that no one's ever thought before it solves big crime. Reality is a system that is predicated on thoughtful communication honest dialogue and just a consistent methodology usually leads to the greatest success and within the in this state and other states there's just inconsistent application of a processes. Yeah it it sounds like one of the stumbling. Blocks is is knowing when and how and who to report things to that play into the fact that i keep reading reports. I've read a lot of stuff online in the last few weeks about soaring crime rates missing women missing. Indigenous women are murdered indigenous women but every single report i read. There's a caveat that says this is probably highly under reported and i'm curious what your thoughts are on. Why is that. And how do we overcome that. I think that when we're talking about our numbers. I think they're low and i think that's because we have a lot of people are in system as other the native american that the data entry quality control issue that could be a database. That doesn't match up with a entering data base of defaults to white. And there's there's a lot of trust issues community doesn't necessarily trust outside. Law enforcement is fearful for them to go to another law enforcement agency. We have cases where when the family initiated initially skews heartworms initially had reported their person. They didn't give all the evidence to the local bond for agency that when we found out the state of american and we've passed that along better permission onto that jurisdiction in daily contact with family. The family came forth without. They've been holding for decades because they didn't want to share it with the non tribal on respond. Well to make a difference in that case. Do you know what is still ongoing. Oh wow we still going. Are you able to share. What what case that is so there have been some new laws and new things that you guys are doing. I mean just having the liaisons alone is fantastic. have you seen. It's very early days. But have you seen any changes. Absolutely so i actually started working the tribes back in two thousand when i was working with another project contrive on or spent ben and back then it was a very different world than it is today. I will tell you that. I don't fabulous bench for the directors that just he was excellent other flashbacks and grading waves that they hostile changes a lot of credit. I don't know history over show that he had added value of him a lot of credit for that two thousand six. They passed a law with christine. Gregoire that allowed the tries to work for journal. Authority and made a huge difference having agencies required to work the tribes built in relationships. I think washington state has benefit. That maybe other states may not have. Because we've been working on this for probably at least twenty years. I would say this isn't something you know building. Those relationships hasn't been something that's been the last year and a half. I've seen a big change last twenty years interesting enough when we first went public with our numbers. We're getting a lot of calls from families from out of state didn't know who to call for their Missing in washington state so we would go through those and work on trying to figure out what jurisdiction they went missing. Brahmin and Helped him Certain bursary in so we work with state agencies that we actually work with people in canada's all people were in washington state. I appreciate the modesty of it but not the patty. Patty and donut done an incredible job short period of time. Yes these issues have been have been debated for twenty years but in the last year and a half. You've really seen a lot of progress in just connecting the dots and bringing various groups together and creating a sense of trust. We've got a long way to go but both patty donner are excellent. Sitting out you know even during covert sitting down face to face or screen to screen with individuals and creating that relationship. It's another talking about law enforcement of being that. Consistency law enforces also about relationships. And these two ladies are working on this relationship so that we have that trusting that trust is going to bring families together. It's gonna solve crimes. It's is going to bring resolution is sometimes tragic resolution that it still will be resolution to yeah. I always find that if we have specific examples people really can connect and relate to the message so much better. I'm curious if you have any examples of ways that you've been able to move a specific crime investigation forward or find a resolution through all this new communication relationship building. We have had resolution decision as far as calling out the names. We don't do that because the wanna persons located whether it be located in a positive way or a negative way this balanced going through a lot so we leave it to them if they want to be a case where we had a a young lady who had been missing for sixteen years and her family had given out and believe. This is dead. With exception of one sibling that she could still be alive and related cut and we found her. She was across the country. Were able to get the name contact. They're working on bringing her home. We don't know details at happened. But i think the one that the missing the longest family was looking or their uncle. Who gone missing in nineteen sixty seven and we actually found him in another state in that situation. He was happy in kind of excited that somebody was looking for him and thought well enough for him to look for him but at the end of the conversation he did not want contact with his family. So we have happiness onsides disappointment other side. But we're locating also you know we can do the best 'em fat and then we've had unfortunate cases where are slim mccolm is found deceased and those cases. We try to be an advocate for the family rain. I've corner and investigator together. So they understand why the corner might make a decision of suicide or details. Help them understand. What's yeah i guess it's not really a closure there at least a little bit of healing yet. I think not only the healing but also like you said the relationship building and knowing that somebody cares enough to help you find their loved one. Whatever the outcome might be. Can you talk a little bit more about what it feels like to have those successes and work with those families and be able to finally give them an answer you know some of. It's super exciting. Because it's really great when you're working environment that's predominantly possibly going to be negative all the time and he finds something positive. It's a win right. My curiosity kills me. Because i want to get in and hug the family and find out what happened and everything. But that's not my role and act and so the person wants to get in there. Is she okay you know. Is there anything. I can do to help like your family member of you're talking to them a lot. There's a lot of very heavy emotion that goes with it. Say get that attachment but then you need to step back and let them resolve this as a family and deal with their situation unless they call you and helping and so most of the cases i don't know in results are looking people. I don't know what the circumstances what they find out certain. Chances name is witnessing. But it's not. Yeah you know we. We all want a happy and our our job is truthful indians. Our job is finding the resolution and that resolution sometimes tragic that resolution is sometimes joyful that resolution sometimes mixed but we want the most accurate portrayal of the realities presented to the families. I got to leave here in a few minutes for another meeting. So if you wanted to pipe on you need to hop. Yeah i was gonna ask don. Do you understand that. You have a history of crime in your family of something happening to your family member of share your situation. Sure so my. I lost my mother to a homicide. When i was about twenty years old and it did happen on the spokane indian reservation so definitely have unfortunately the experience in empathy for what people are going through. Yeah how how was that handled. Was there like a known kind of we know who to call. We know how to handle this. Well i was twenty. So i was really young and of course in the i understand this part of it. It's like you're in total shock. So you really don't know how to handle it with the steps are so based on my experience i really relied on the authorities to all up with me and communicate with. They didn't so from the fbi to the local. I met which is the spokane trouble on forsman. How does that experience inform what you do now with the families that you work with like can bring a unique perspective and so when patting are collaborating working together to bring up subjects are information. I bring that perspective with me like we have to understand. That families are in shock. There's some ptsd like how do we make communication clermont. Somebody ranges in that state. Yeah now as far as the numbers go you know we talk about. There's a larger number of murders and missing women in particular but but both men and women from tribal lands any thoughts on why that is has lost. Jewish history has the last year history own not respecting a community in respect of culture. Running over to get what you want. And up until nineteen twenty four. It was okay to do that. And then we have generational history of activities that we still are recovering from a history of disenfranchising native communities. We have a history of native communities not being represented accurately and thoughtfully both government and culture and and criminal mind. Criminals are always gonna find the easiest way to do what they want to do and the easiest way to do what you want to do if you want to do. Bad is doing bad people that maybe don't have all the protections don't have all the all the consistent systems in place don't have that absolute response. You know that most people feel like something bad happens to me. I can call nine one one and somebody's going to respond. Something's going to happen. Somebody is going to be my advocate. Tribal communities simply haven't had historically in our country certainly episodically they have certainly Situations have improved but overall the native american communities are still the communities that are the the farthest away from the protection reach and comfort that our governor systems are designed to provide. Yeah i read one article where they're talking about Just simply the facility to house people when they're arrested that some tribal lands have like jail facilities and some don't and they're forced to put anybody that's arrested into jail. That's maybe the county jail or something like that. It's not on tribal land so just literally. The facilities are just so vastly different in certain travel areas. So criminals take take advantage of that inconsistency we talked about before a consistent response a consistent system a consistent level communication between the various agencies. That work on these problems. Consistency is key. It leads excess inconsistency leaves of own you and our tribal communities especially women travel communities have been among the most vulnerable in our society. Is there any way to quantify or to to know whether it's you know people from outside of the travel community largely committing the crimes or is it within the tribal community or is there any way to even quantify that there is a report came out about say about ten years ago that actually spoke to show that Violence against of people by other than native people were a higher ratio than any other groups of being. Yeah so that. It was a native on native ratio other than native on native show. Yeah is there an effort at all between states to like you said to have more consistency. Not only within the state but around the country with how states and tribal governments worked together. You state different jurisdiction can touch. Can't just like maybe there's a conference where everybody gets together and says these are best practices. You know yeah. There's a. There's a tribal conference in vegas about once before cohen That was involved in all tribal on. That would come together and we'd have different ways of working together in different there. I think you're seeing in these two ladies and patty and dog. You're you're seeing kind of the cutting edge washington stepping up and that may be maybe next year. Patty and i will be putting together that that conference. You're talking or trying to create some sort of regional authority and mean there's there's layer layer of need there's layer upon layer opportunity and right now the layer of need that we're looking at just simply getting the numbers accurate ship. Were getting the names down on one sheet of paper simply getting the contact list correct simply getting a point. Where when one of these ladies makes phone call the personally other and takes because they recognize. They recognize the value. Of what they're doing. So we're we're still in the infancy but even in infancy life and we're going to grow and where these two Ladies are gonna take this program in the next ten years i think will astound us all. Yeah now. I don't know if you guys can talk to this part of it but when you do have a situation where there's been a crime committed on on tribal land. There's been an arrest made whether or not that is is a tribal member. Does the prosecution that happened on tribal land or does it depend on. Depends on what the crime is if it was a missing person or homicide the federal. Okay well i'll take that back. Constant occasions be good at st trial. Jails are Sustainable per year for connections for year at a time zone anything more than that needs to the state or the camp urge events. Anything is considered a major crime is going to be either state or federal level again. Those definitions are going to vary from county to county. Try to try to eat even court court and so again just coming up with a. I'll keep going back to the system. We talk about consistent the the more the more that we standardized these practices in the more people can expect on both sides of the coin. Those are perpetrating crimes. Those who are the victims and those who are in defending against at prosecuted the more that we can expect consistency more successful. Half is the fact that things are not prosecuted on tribal that they only deal with the lesser crimes like is that something that the sovereign nations are cool with or would they prefer to be able to handle more things themselves each each restrictions. Going to be different thing. We really need to be careful as found indian. It's not a blanket tunnel. There's fun twenty nine different Twenty nine different jurisdictions so. You might have a different opinion on that. I think the key keyword sovereign arsov remaining and they do view things like that can do have their own approaches. We're not trying to win with you. Know keep that consistency. We're not trying to go. Hey state of washington. Washington state patrol says. Here it is. This is a one size fits all in here. Here's what you've got to do. We're trying to work through the system so that everyone's rights are and sovereignty are recognizing. Appreciate it but that we have a system that is more more successful for all this involve. Yeah does it complicate things at all that we have twenty nine recognized tribes in washington but then we also have non recognized tribes when it comes to figuring out like what database those go in or how those are listed in the database. Say in how it's listed in the database as much difficult to identify where season relative contact your family if it's in the urban areas or off reservation or it's usually at least if you're within the reservation areas we have an idea of were for some came from but if we have somebody does seattle and they never told their brand much about their family or friends but i know their native. You know. we don't know if they went home or if they're still seeing we we have no way to check up. We can't notify the families left. And now that you they have a missing relative because we don't know where they came from and that makes it difficult. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah that's all the questions i can think of at the moment. Is there anything else. You guys wanna talk about or anything else you feel is important that that folks should know about the work that you're doing over say how awesome. She's like christmas. So when we first started i started november eighteen th and we are on the ground november nineteen and shared shays comes from an army background not long for spent in chase than just doing it. She's shaved was the day after she was hired she was getting dirty and getting into it too so happy to have her there every day. Chris To cal i like. I'll go back to what i was saying. Yeah we really are infancy of this program that our goal is to make everybody safe to keep everybody safe. And extra create a system where we can find and prosecute the guilty weaken exonerate the innocent. We can make sure those who are victims and survivors of crimes. Have the support thing need our organizations enjoying its hundred anniversary this year. We've been around for for one hundred years. This is our centennial. And i'm hoping that in the second hundred years we're going to see far better relations among law enforcement and communities of color communities cultural distinction. We're going to have to do that to be successful. We've kind of gone our country. I think from being the the mythical melting pot kind of being a centrifuge in the last few years where everything spending so quickly that we're kind of going into our individual and being more separated almost like a social component of code has happened has been happening there for years. I read somewhere that we've gone from society. It's used to talk to each other from our front porch to society that talks ourselves on our back dex and we're doing that more and more in law enforcement. We can't do that. we have to serve all. We have to serve all with equity with vigor with mitt with compassion and relationships is the way we do. That and the tribal liaison role are tribal relationships. There were human and the two ladies that you're talking to the tip of the sword and the front of the she'll and we we appreciate very much on. It's so nice. I love that. And i love to see i mean i. I'm so happy to see that you guys are out there doing this work clearly. It's work that needs to get done and you sound like you're the perfect people for it so any other information that that would be helpful for people to know. Let's say there's a tribal member listening. Who is having those feelings of maybe not feeling that trusting of law enforcement but they have crime that they know about or have information on a crime. Should they call patio. Would that be a great place to start. Please share their contact numbers and their information. Because that's how this works. We hear from the public. We respond and we do the best. We can to bring okay. We'll definitely do that has been seen questions about why we haven't put the photos online but people know that we have to have a somethin- signed to be able to do that. We can't take other people's photos their web pages. If there's a number that would like there seem person on their contact let us know and we will get them to stop beside the release and get it up there good to know we have more information about missing and murdered indigenous women at scene of the crime podcast dot com and scene of the crime. We'll be back in just a few weeks with more fresh episodes and a season long deep dive into the mysterious death of autumn stone. I'm kim shepard with caroline asarco and this is the scene of the crime.
MMIW: Silent No More
"It's finally spring. And i'm saying goodbye. Snow hello adventure enduring the honda dream garage spring. You can get epic deals on your favourite honda model ready to get rugged and take the off road in all wheel drive honda. Suv like the crv. Hr v. pilot asphalt on redesigned rich. I want to take spring road trip. Checkout fuel-efficient turbocharged civic organization. Say goodbye to winter. And hello to a new honda. Don't miss huge savings during the honda dream garage spree bed now at your local honda dealer. Earth sovereign was just fourteen years old and she was an itty bitty thing standing just over five feet tall barely hitting a hundred pounds on the scale. Still when she walked into the party that night she stuck out her chin and let them know she had arrived. The portland house belonged to a friend of a friend. She wasn't really sure who but between the bass heavy beat of the music and excited energy of the young people milling around. This felt like the place to be. Even though she was still in the dawn of her teenage years served feather already had plenty of experience with booze and not just to liven up a party. She learned the hard way liquor. Could sue the tortured heart at least temporarily so just like so many other nights. She grabbed a bottle. There were a lot of familiar faces at this house. Party met a lot of strangers to and when earth feather went down the hall to use the bathroom. She wasn't alone. A group of young men grabbed her and refused to let her go. I always rate They told me that they wanted to take me and traffic in hawaii. It's a sickening story. That's all too familiar for so many young indigenous women all over the nation and these girls get lost in the shuffle or they run away and they ended up homeless. Been murdered or buried or who. Don't but now new. Laws and new efforts are being made to stop the cycle and find justice for the families of the missing and murdered indigenous women from the pacific northwest and around the country. I'm kim shepard with carolina's oreo and this is the scene of the crime. So kim earth feathers experience of going with a friend to a party where you don't know everyone when you're a teenager and also you know wanting to numb out. Pain is something i think. Many of us. Yeah if not most of us can relate to doing when we were teens. And here's what makes it so terrifying for native american families that there's this ever-present fear that a predator or predators could just snatch you up without a trace and your family is left. Twist in the wind devastated me not knowing what happens to you not knowing if you're missing if you run away and especially when you look at the numbers. Homicide is the third leading cause of death among native american women which is ten times the national average. We should all be carrying about missing and murdered. Native women girls mothers grandmothers daughters sisters aunties and friends. And just like you said i mean the teenager is can be difficult for anyone even if you have an amazing support system and you live in this safest community but when you don't have those things it's amazing. How quickly can go from bit of teenage rebellion to a full blown life threatening emergency earth. Feather sovereign knows about this first hand. She's a member of the colville confederated tribes and she's grown up knowing about the plight of native american women who are murdered or missing and are failed by the system. Her mother was an activist who fought to keep sacred lands protected. I grew up with a single mother was myself and my sister. My mother she was my rock in life. She was involved with the american indian movement and living in portland oregon. She was also involved with environmental. Riots she was involved with the big mountain movement which was no mining within the navajo. Hopi reservation homelands. She went to the dakotas during the american humane and she realized all impacts from owning on their reservation. Not just the cancers but also the man kam. She's come along with the mining. This term man camps was one that i hadn't heard before but in addition to the environmental concerns around mining the man camps bring a whole other category of worry for people who live on reservations basically are temporary boarding facilities for the workers who are building the infrastructure and when they're built on reservations. It means that you've got a whole bunch of strangers moving in mostly men who have nothing more than work to keep them occupied. It's a setting where criminal. Activity is naturally heightened but in an environment where there is limited capacity for law enforcement. There was a law that was passed in the nineteen seventy-eight kwame Which hold the tribes that they are not allowed to prosecute non tribal members on reservations. But years later there was a public law to eighty which was like a state contract agreement that gave the state permission to come on the reservation to help assist in arresting people but not all tribes have a public law to eighty and even if they do have a public to eighty still. There's not enough funding and not enough people to help. Could usually if something was to happen on reservations the fbi may come in. Are the bureau of indian affairs. Are the state troll but They rarely do. I see you shaking your head over there care on. I mean it's just it's it's you wonder why there's no trust rhino or little trust. You know i that says it. All i mean i just you shake your head and you wonder like how is this fucking possible and yet it is well as a little girl. Earth feather lived with her mom and her sister. They lived for some time on the colville reservation in washington state later in portland where her mom could be more involved in the activist community by another my father. They divorced when i was like three years old so i had a lot of like abandonment issues and then as a young girl i was molested by neighbor so i was also dealing with auto emotional appeal so i was coping with paul. And it's really not surprising. I mean with how much she'd been through so early in her life in nineteen ninety-two when she was fourteen years old. She was invited to that house party in portland. She know whose house it was. Just a friend of a friend. But i think we've all gone to parties like that. We're a lot of familiar faces there. Lots of drinking so i can imagine. Earth better wasn't thinking about all the stories. Her mama told her about. What can happen when you let your guard down. She was just a kid being a kid trying to relax and drink away. Her worries and i went to the back of the house to use the restroom. And that's where they ground was in the back of the house and my friend was looking for the end. She just assumed that. I got bored of the party. In what home and then one. I didn't come home. My mom started looking for me the next day my mother she called the police not said well. You know you have to wait. Forty eight hours which isn't true. The saw while she probably just ran away. The assumptions about why this child is missing. I always think about my own children. you know. We both got a lot of kids. We've both been through those teenage years. And when my child was fourteen i mean they might have looked like an adult but they were certainly still children and i couldn't imagine them being put in situation and not looking for them not immediately wanting to just just begin a search and be frantic and i mean i would never just immediately think ran away. We'll just wait a few days and see if they come back well as kenneth lanning are retired. fbi profiler has said we have so much sympathy when it's a three year old or a four year old like what happened. Where is this child but these are still children and yet for whatever reason we think oh they could have run away. And then you add the indigenous women being marginalized and like the domestic violence and all of the trauma and it's like to be ignored. And certainly we've all been at. I can speak for myself being a teen putting myself in situations that you know. I'm just so grateful that i survived and then adding that component of like. Hey someone can just kidnap you murder you and nobody's going to know what happened. There's going to be no law enforcement looking. Or maybe little depending on the scenario that plays out but on top of that. They've been told over the generations. Be careful this is what can happen. And so if you have been taken you know you're relying on your family and the resources that they have to come get you and find you which a lot of times. Those resources are very little in the native american community. I mean they're you know not a lot of wealth happening there to hire private. Investigators are search teams or whatever so as she would learn later the men who grabbed her were part of a gang. They made their money through human trafficking selling girls and young women remember. She's just fourteen years old selling them as sex workers after indoctrinating them into the trade themselves after they grammy in acute quiet. There is three of them. So i was like freeing from a safety. I really didn't know what to do. And i was like frozen you now. It's pretty petite back then. I was about five four hundred pounds so they were pretty intimidating but they hold everybody to leave the party. And so i stayed there for about a night and then they moved me to a motel room. I was raped and They tell me that they wanted to take me and traffic me in hawaii because there's a few girls. They sent down a hawaii and they were able to make about four thousand dollars a week so there were almost trying to talk to me. Almost turned glamorize it. It was like a system that they had that there was one of them. That was really nice and then one that was like really mean so. It's like they already know what they were doing to try to control in a few late they had. I think if this were me as a fourteen year old and i were in this situation. I would be thinking okay. Just buy some time. Because i'm sure the cops have been called. I'm sure somebody's looking for me. Let me just buy time until somebody can find me. But i'm sure that's not what was running through her mind. Yeah that's what. That's what i'm saying like yeah hopelessness and to have somebody Charming and you know the the good one in a bad one you know. Hey you're gonna make a lot of money and on. It's like yeah. They have the system down. They know how to manipulate. And we'll all this is happening. There is no police investigation. No search party being organiz no reward being offered for her return but she did have her mother and a strong network within the native american community. Who were looking once. They pin down. Who earth better had been with at that house party. The friend of friend they were able to get a message. To our captors. Unleash your friend was able to contact them and told them that you know. My mother was looking for me than they. They let them know that my mother she was involved with the american indian movement solo. They wanted to drive me home. But i wouldn't let them drive me home. I'd i would just saw dropped me off close to so they. They grow back four days. After she'd been kidnapped earth feather was back home but the ordeal left her feeling angry and confused. She wondered whether she ever would have been released. If it weren't for the cloud that our mother had in the community. Yeah so earth feathers. Mother did get her daughter back successfully. Using one of the few tools that indigenous people have word of mouth missing persons flyers and posters and social media. I think this one of the main points of raising awareness is more support for families fighting for their either murdered loved ones kidnapped loved ones and then the people themselves earth feather waiting to be rescued. Fortunately you know. The mom is the true hero in this story. Who knows what would have happened to her. She didn't have that she felt ashamed. She blamed herself for staying out that night but she was also really angry. That law enforcement didn't take any action. It made me feel really bad. You know felt like. I didn't matter it really took a hit on my self esteem. You know i felt like i really wasn't protected. Her mother continued to be iraq putting her in counseling and alcohol treatment. But it wouldn't be the last time that earth feather would be abused. I was still self medicating. And i was rate. And i didn't feel like if i call. Please start with matter than also growing up by wasn't a domestic violent relationship where i did call the police because he strangled me mun itami for that. He held me hostage and in that hostage situation. I call the police and they didn't want to do anything they just told me to leave the home and ghosted relatives and he goes back to. I think we've said in prior episodes that when there is an allegation of abuse victims should always be believed that she'd be the default if information comes out later that that shows. Maybe that wasn't the case. You know we can deal with that at that time but when you have a woman or a man coming to you saying i have been abused. Please help me. We should believe that person we should find out what's going on and we should do what we can to help them. But that wasn't her experience. She experienced so much trauma early in her life but instead of being an at the world all of this which she had every right to be earth is using these experiences to fuel her passion and follow in her mother's footsteps. She's now the director of the missing and murdered indigenous women of washington. The reason why we're missing murdered indigenous women washington even though you know we do our outreach with the men and even our lgbtq which we call her. Two spirits are focused mainly on the women and girls because traditionally are native american pupil. Or we come from a matrimonial matriarchal societies where we hold you know our women as being sacred. She has a special connection to the earth into the land in. They say that when one woman was found murdered are when she's murdered. It's like killing four people at once because while on average she usually has about three or four children so when they kill off our our women you know. They think he'll often next generation. I just love getting that different perspective on. Why are we focusing on the women because the women are what hold this community together and when you're breaking down and you're crushing the spirit of these women when you're murdering these women or they're disappearing. Yeah you're you're not just ruining their lives and affecting their families but the entire tribal community which is held together by these women well and she says it. I mean it's just the way that she speaks is just. It's it's like it's still reverberating in my mind right now because the sacredness of women just in general but also in the native american culture and when they're missing and there murdered and nobody in it feels like i'm sure a lot. Let me just say this. I'm sure there's a lot of people who are working extremely hard both in law enforcement and trying to solve this issue but but when that doesn't reach the levels of people who are like. Oh hey where's my mom. Where's my grandma. My sister you know. Where's my anti. you know it. Just it feels like a just an open wound that is continuing to fester investor investor right and generation after generation. Yes and like like you said you know. Hear me hear us you. That's why they have the missing and murdered indigenous women. It's such a strong with the red hand handprints over the mouth. It's like hear us in the. Us native american women are more than twice as likely to experience violence than any other demographics so when earth feather lays out kind of like you know of all the the the kidnapping and the human trafficking peace and then the domestic violence that she goes through in the domestic violence that she's witnessed in her life. You know these aspects play a huge part in what's happening in their lives because one and three native women is sexually assaulted during her life and sixty. Seven percent of these assaults are perpetrated by non natives. You know that going back to those man camps. I mean once you hear man camp. You can't hear on here it. S like you. Can you know what's what that's about. And when you have a bunch of. And i don't want to generalize on men but like you got a bunch of men are there is there. Alcohol is their drugs and then you have a population kind of being targeted. We'll they're vulnerable. They're just they're vulnerable population. And so yeah when you have the men out there who. They're not around their normal friends and family. Like what are they going to do to keep themselves occupied with almost zero zero consequences for any of those actions right. It's an even if ninety nine percent of those men are good men who would never do anything to harm women that still leaves one percent that can do some real damage right. So one of the goals of the movement is to focus on prevention but also healing from the violence that they have experienced. We know from research that children who witness domestic violence that they suffered long term consequences including changes to their mental and physical development possibly resulting in worse health outcomes learning disorders and continuation of a cycle of violence over generations. I don't remember where i read that. But it's like it makes sense like it. It not only just having the resources to investigate the cases but to prevent them from happening. Yes yeah there's been a lot of movement towards correcting the systemic issues that have caused so many indigenous families to feel like no one cares like no one is looking for their missing loved. Ones like no one wants to find answers for their unsolved murders but before we get into this progress we need to take a look at how we got here in the first place. Emily washington is a member of the yakima tribe. she's also an activist and founder of native friends. It's an organization that works to support understanding of the history and culture of native peoples. She says they're women are often targeted. Because they're seen as less than as not quite human something that has been going on for hundreds of years the of need a woman and targeting native women. We have historical records about that that stretches back to the nineteen hundreds free ackerman's. There was literally newspaper ads. That ran that said dusky maidens in demand in a described how you can marry a yakima woman target her for land and leave her and this showed in multiple states and areas and when i went to look and see like why is oklahoma running this. Why is oregon running this. Why are you know. Why are these different estates in areas running this ad about how to target a yakima women for her land and her to marry her in the take her land. You see the numbers are really high for my w in those areas and they'll state so there's a pattern of targeting native women further resources to either through specifically their land or even more no dehumanization of our native women our first report of 'em my w for the ackman nation was eighteen fifty-five our response of the rape and killing of our yakima women and children was to take those assailants and kill them so that they could harm anybody else. The government's response to that reporting and that action was a three year war so when we reported our first two cases of missing a burden didn't sleman. The government started a war with us. This was just a little bit hard for me to believe. I'm going to be honest. So i was doing some googling online about the yakima war and on most of the websites including history link and even yakima dot com. They don't mention the rape of the yakima women at all but wikipedia does mention the fact that there were rising tensions between the yakima and local government for some time but it was the rape of yakima woman that lit the match and started that war in eighteen fifty five like emily says the history has been whitewashed and for a lot of these websites they talk about in decencies there were incidents between the white settlers and the native americans. But they don't really describe or go into the detail of what. What was that what happened. It simplified in a way that it just takes away the evidence of what they went through and so you know to hear her talk about that and then to read online that yeah i mean there were rising tensions but the war didn't start until this woman was raped and that's what started the war in eighteen fifty five and then you started earlier with some tribes have protocols in place where these men camps if they have them there then something can they can be prosecuted and even to this day. Some do and some don't remember earlier right. Yeah that's modern but in this time in eighteen fifty five. They had no rights at all. I know but i mean some of them still don't have any rights based on that i mean if we look at the evidence i mean. I'm sorry when you read that. I was like i'm not surprised but it's like how is this possible at the same time right. I think it's one of those things where i don't want it to be true. I can't believe that that's true because it's just too horrific well and i think that's the whole thing about whitewashing is that we don't want it to be true and yet we need to understand and we need to know our history which is painful to move forward. Yeah it might seem like this is a really long time ago. We're talking about eighteen fifty five but the effects of that dehumanisation can last for generations while she says we can look at the higher levels of addiction on reservations as one example of that there are some aspects of people that are doing things that maybe they shouldn't be it is it's like none of these things equal you get to be murdered. You have to be traffic yet. We still come up against this aspect of dehumanizing language with regards to these cases about needed women may come up against you know victim blaming with regards to native women and i always feel like there's different aspects and society that native people go through and have been through the molestation things that have been very violent that have impacted our ability to have basic function. Not being able speaker language and being abused in public schools a result of that. That's my family. That's only one generation away beginning in the late eighteen. Hundreds children from native american families were forced into boarding schools aimed at assimilating them into white society. They weren't allowed to speak their native languages. Practice their native cultures or even use their real names and if they broke any of these rules they were often punished. Physically and the practice didn't end until nineteen thirty four when congress passed the indian reorganization act giving native tribes more control over their own people. But that can erase decades of abuse suffered by these families. It also didn't end the racism that by this time was ingrained into so many parts of american society including laws and finances just like so many native women while she has been hearing stories about missing and murdered indigenous women her entire life white but his inner seventy suicide is. Stir that's missing for decades. And i think the strength of her speaking to this topic i think of sandra lee smith skin who is right in seattle shot under a bridge across from city hall. Seattle her son. I grew up knowing him. Like you know you see people in the community. And i didn't know that his mother was murdered and when he had i seen the news he had a very emotional response to it. And it's interesting to see that process in cloud that he shared about the process. Indeed been open about it but it was after being alone for so long and feeling alone for so long and to have finally somebody validated emotional to the point wanted to rejected a showed and now that a place where he's researching looking advocating to different law enforcement in judges just for them to build understanding about unsolved cases and how about how women have gone through horrible things in their lives and sometimes are in a different place away from home and get killed how they don't get their justice and how their family members eight the movement to acknowledge and combat. The targeting of indigenous women and girls is reaching far beyond the tribal communities now. The washington state attorney. General's office has been working to ensure that tribal members who've been murdered are included in their hits database that stands for homicide investigation and tracking system. The purpose is to get all the information in one place so they can identify patterns. That might help them. Track down suspects for people that are have looked at true crime in the north west. You start to see and recognize different patterns and that is a system that was built off law enforcement being able to identify patterns and see like. Hey maybe this has to do with a serial killer or when we look at the golden state killer. I mean do we have. I got a police officer. That is also a suspect in a true crime cases. Yes we do. What does that mean. Poor connections with regards to unsolved cases that we're now learning and finding out about so it means that potentially we can have all cases. I'm you have more is on something we have people that have you know worked countless our sleepless nights. You develop a system to try to protect people utilize that if somebody's offering a helping hand helping system let's utilize so the state attorney. General is trying to track the murder cases and the washington state patrol is now focusing on the indigenous people who are missing the state patrols. Chris loftus says one of their most recent efforts has been to simply put together a list. A comprehensive yes of all the native individuals from washington state who are missing and it's a lot harder than you might think the bottom line is we've got twenty nine. Federally recognized tribes. Then there are multiple non travel communities whether they're urban or a rural many of them have their own law enforcement agencies. So you have tribal law enforcement. You have county law enforcement of state yet. Federal bureau in your prayers for for major crimes and so the bottom line. Is you have a lot of systems and no one was tasked with or stepped up to the play to russell all that to the ground and just start with just a basic list. I on the one hand. I get that. Because it's it's it's really easy to point fingers and say well. Why didn't you do this. And why didn't you do that. But i do think that this is the modern era and that it just seems it falls flat on top of that. I think that that just by not having something. A database it really. I mean this isn't the nineteen eighties where we're dealing the green river killer right. Yeah you could say you can see all the card catalogs at. they're pulling. How would you do that case. It was back in the eighties. There's no technology i mean. There is technology now and there has been for decades and there has been and it's funny because it's interesting. I was reading. This piece called in kind of anticipation of doing this. I mean you did a lot of legwork on this case you really wanted to do it right yeah. We really wanted to make sure that we had because we didn't. I know that you and i both didn't know it's like what what is the pinpoint. Why is this happening. Why are there so many missing and murdered indigenous women. What is it. it's not just one thing. It's multiple things. But according to this piece that i read in the vanished emily joaquin's she was actually interviewed for that. She said quote when their native. Why does it go into the secret realm. I want that list. I still don't understand why that information is withheld. It seems like something that can be addressed different people having access to that information to help share and find them it bothers me that their names are withheld. The people that are missing. I want them to know that we're looking for them. I want their families to know that we're looking for them. And so i think that yeah. There is a bureaucracy that happens when you're dealing with so many different jurisdictions and we know in the past with like cases where ted bundy for example he used that to his advantage of like moving girl in one place and then you know putting her body somewhere else and then her jewelry somewhere else so we know that that happens when they don't talk to each other but it just feels like on guideline guys and i know you're getting some good stuff happening. There goes good stuff. So as of march i the state patrol is now publishing a list. That's updated weekly. Thanks in large part to patty. Gosh she's the tribal liaison for the state patrol in western washington. According to patty even getting a firm count on the number of how many native women are missing has been a real challenge. When we're talking about our numbers. I think i do think there are low and i think that's because we have a lot of people are system as a native american that can be data entry quality control issue. That could be a database. Doesn't match up with a defaults to white. And there's there's a lot of trust issues community doesn't necessarily trust outside law enforcement. It's fearful for them to go out to another law enforcement agency. We have cases where when the family initiated initially. Excuse me hearts initially had reported their person missing. They didn't give all the evidence to the local bond for When we found out personal state of american and we've passed that along better permission to that jurisdiction and they they contact with balancing family came forth without. They've been holding for decades because they didn't want to share with the non tribal on pat. He's been working as a tribal liaison for decades so she's really had the opportunity to see the evolution of law enforcement practices and how creating trusting relationships with travel agencies and the indigenous individuals themselves can have such a huge impact on the outcomes in these cases. I think washington state has benefit. That maybe other states may not have. Because we've been working on this for probably at least twenty years and would say this isn't something building. Those relationships hasn't been something that's been just the last year and a half. I've seen an update change last twenty years. Interestingly enough about when we first went public with our numbers we are getting a lot of calls from out of state now who to call In washington state so we would go through those and work on trying to figure out what restriction they went missing brahmin and what would have helped bursary in so we work with state agencies that we actually work with simple and canada's looking at were in washington state so this is really important work. It's not just about getting names. It's about moving these cases forward to hell developing trust. Yeah exactly developing you and. They deserve that they being the government needs to develop trust in order to get people to feel comfortable to share. Yeah and to help with that relationship building. The state patrol also recently added a second travel liaison who focuses on tribes in eastern washington. Don pullen is a member of the spokane tribe herself and she understands what it's like to lose a loved one to violence. I lost my mother to a homicide. When i was was about twenty years old in at did affect on the spokane indian reservation so definitely have unfortunately the experience and What people are going through so when patty are collaborating working together to bring up subjects or information i bring that perspective with me like we have to understand. That families are in shock some. Ptsd you like how do we make communication clerical. Somebody's or heinous in that eight yet. Not put the onus on the families to report and deliver all the information that investigators need the fact remains that there is a lack of trust. there is some ptsd that happens in a lot of families where you know. It's hard for them to come to terms with terrible things that are happening around them and they don't want to deal with an outside agency deal with a group of people that have for centuries not been on their side. This is not a time when they want to dip their toe into that realm. I mean the. The onus really has to be on outside agencies on the state government the federal government to step up and help create those relationships which it's something they are working toward according to a report funded by the us. Department of justice over eighty. Four percent of american indian or alaska. Native women have experienced violence in their lifetime. According to the cdc they have a higher rate of homicide than any other ethnic group and the washington state patrol found that while just one point. Nine percent of the population identifies as native. They account for six percent of all the missing person cases. So no matter. Who's looking at the numbers it's clear. Indigenous people are being targeted and there can be a lot of reasons for that as we already heard. History is playing a huge role in this as does the confusing network of agencies that are tasked with keeping the peace on tribal lands and the state patrol. Chris loftus says there's at least one other element play here and it's the criminals themselves. Criminals are always going to find the easiest way to do what they want to do. And the easiest way to do what you want to do if you want to do. Bad is doing bad people that maybe don't have all the protections don't have all the all the consistent systems in place don't have that absolute response. You know that most people feel like if something bad happens to me. I can call nine one one and somebody's going to respond. Something's going to have somebody is going to be my advocate. Tribal communities simply haven't had historically in our country. The native american communities are still the communities that are the the farthest away from the protection reach and comfort that our government systems are designed to provide. And what he says farthest away. He's talking about several aspects. They're physically a lot of times far away from metro areas that have the crime labs the investigators with decades of experience. And all that i mean. They're physically far away. But they're also technologically far away. They don't always have you know. High speed internet to to make connections with law enforcement or great cell service and all of the areas. Maybe they don't have a signal to call nine one one where they're at. Maybe they don't have as many cameras when a crime happens to go and get that. Cctv to see what was the suspicious vehicle at this gas station or the supermarket. There just isn't as much technology on the tribal land so that can also hamper investigations. But one detail. That i found interesting is that i read somewhere. Like seventy percent of native american. Women actually don't live on tribal lands so that would make sense on tribal land but outside of it. It still is like way way crazy. High only thirty percent of native american women are actually living on tribal land. The interesting thing too is that when they were talking about how names are put into the databases and they said you know that the computer systems default to white when they're about ethnicity so it takes that extra step for the responding officer or whoever it is to to go in there and change that but on top of that when they do go and change it. There's no option for spokane or colville or yucca. Ma its native american. What tribe are we talking about. I mean where's the family native american doesn't really tell us who they are but again it just feels like they just need to okay. This is what we do get a step a process in place and then we add those metrics so that again. it's twenty twenty one. It's not a nineteen eighties. So i'm glad to hear that they're at least acknowledging what's happening because in order to actually move forward you need to understand what the issues are and it sounds like the washington state patrol and the attorney general's office i think you said are are at least starting to figure it out. Yes lofta says no matter where you are. The key to successful law enforcement is consistency and that has been clearly lacking for native peoples. We're not trying to go win with you. Know keep that consistent. We're not trying to go in with the state of washington. Washington state patrol says here is. This is a one size fits all and here. Here's what you've got to do. We're trying to to work through the system so that everyone's rights are and sovereignty are recognized and appreciated but that we have a system that is more more successful for all those involved and the good news is. They're starting to see some success in locating native people who are missing and tribal liaison patty. Gosh says some of these cases go back decades. We have had resolution that we penalty decision as far as calling out the names. We don't do that because the traumas person's located whether it be located oster way or a negative way this balanced going through a lot. So he later to them if they want to be. We did have a case where we had a a young lady who had been missing for sixteen years and her family had given an issue is dead with the exception of believe that she can still be alive and related kept pushing and we found her. She was across the country. Were able to get them in contact. They're working on bringing her home. We don't know details at happened. But i think the london and missing the longest family was looking or their uncle who bundy in nineteen sixty seven. We actually found him in another state in that situation. He was happy and excited that somebody was looking for him and thought well enough or handle it for him that at the end of the conversation he did not want contact with his family. So we have happiness onsides disappointment other side. But we're locating the also we can do the best for 'em pat china we've attic unfortunate cases are Demised found deceased and in those cases. We try to be an advocate for the family and rain owner and investigator together so they understand why the corner might make a decision if it was a suicide or you know details. Help them understand what's happening. I guess this out really for at least a little. Bit of healing healing and healing of the relationships between the tribes and the outside government agencies in washington isn't the only state that is attacking this issue in oregon state attorney general recently released their first report on missing and murdered indigenous persons. It lists eleven missing eight murdered people with oregon connections according to the oregonian. The us attorney's office also plans to meet later this year with all nine federally recognized tribal governments in oregon to gather more information and find out what other efforts might be made to support information sharing between law enforcement agencies that deal with tribal members there was a landmark study conducted by the seattle-based urban indian health institute in two thousand eighteen. They found that there were more than five thousand missing. Alaskan native american indian women and girls in two thousand sixteen but just over a hundred of them were actually listed in the federal database maintained by the department of justice. That's less than one percent. I mean talk about feeling like nobody cares. Yeah jim futa is the executive director of crime stoppers. Puget sound and. He says through his work fighting sex trafficking. He's seen firsthand. How these young women just fall through the cracks. Domestic violence is high child. Abuse is high on some of the reservations. And there's lack of sufficient law enforcement to take care of it and some of the people that are involved in whether it be domestic violence or whether it be abused kids are non native and the reservation has no jurisdiction over them so the complexities of the law enforcement. And who's responsible for what is still unclear and they're working. These outed some of the cases that are brought to the federal. our federal government for these cases are inadequate. They refuse to file so it makes it more difficult. And and and these girls get lost in the shuffle. They run away and they ended up homeless. And they just get lost in the shuffle with someone. We don't even know who they are or been murdered or buried or who knows even with the best of intentions and new efforts by law enforcement to reach out to indigenous communities there is still that lack of trust that has just been ingrained in a lot of native people and that may be one of the biggest hurdles that takes the longest overcome. It's a distrust that has grown for centuries and who's to say it won't take just as long to gain that trust back. In the meantime there are efforts to find a way around the problem. Like a new app called p. Three tips it. Lets people connect with crime. Stoppers and local law enforcement agencies anonymously. Yucca mall has their own crushed offers program that they used the p. Three tips on that app that you can put video audio and photos on there when you hit submit. That doesn't go to the police that goes to their program. And all they know you by is a numeric identifier. They give that to the appropriate jurisdiction in that jurisdiction. That detective can even communicate back and forth with you knowing who you are or where you are. it's a. It's a phenomenal tool. It's a great tool but it's just one step you know not everybody has access to smartphones with cell service where they can use an app like that. So you know. There's a lot of assumptions that people have access to technology that that don't right. It's a step forward. It's a great tool but it's obviously there. There's a lot of other things that need to happen. I think the first thing is the will. I mean this requires resources deep pockets and we know they just made a vaccine in a years time. I mean there's a lot of resources thrown at that if you want change it's going to cost money and that's what it always comes down to right. Yeah and the will. The list of missing indigenous people from washington state is available on the state patrols website. We're gonna put a link on ours as well scene of the crime. Podcast dot com. And if you have information about a crime or concerns about a loved. One from an indigenous community will also have information on our website about how to contact patty and dawn. Tribal liaisons from the state patrol. Please share their contact numbers information. Because that's how this works. We hear from the public. We respond and we do the best we can to bring. Revolution has been seen questions about why. We haven't put the photos online but people know that we have to have a something signed to be able to do that. We can't take other people's photos on their web pages but there's a family member would like they're missing persons on their contact us. Let us know and we will get them. The stop design the release. Get up there. So we're moving in the right direction but this work is far from over earth. Feather sovereign is once again working with state lawmakers to create more supportive services for the victims of these violent crimes in native communities or calling it the. Bring them home bill in one of the sections. We wanna give to families the right to be able to pray over their loved one that when they're found murdered. I know that are native. American people would really hold Issue released sacred. But i also believe that other religions smae also want the right. Another section is like a red thunder alert. It's almost like amber alert. But for missing native american people sit a putting their cases on the back burner. They'll be able to put them on the front. Another section created a hotline. And then we're going to attach say like a red hand krant to the missing hotline sticker. The sex trafficking sticker were women who are being six traffic though is that right handprint and the call number one. They're able to get into a safe spot in possibly be saved and then the final step is creating like a a healing center. Porsche would receive all these services drug and alcohol treatment because sometimes intertwined was trafficking transitional services possibly housing so that she'll begin a whole again so we hope people who live in washington state. They call their legislators as some of the support that bill. It'll be up for vote in twenty two so next year. They're going to be voting on that and like you said. Hopefully we don't see them using finances as a reason not to move forward. Yeah i mean all of the things that she said. It's like yes we don't already have value. I mean the red thunder. i mean. it's like yeah. I just got one before. I came here about amber lee. I'm sure you probably got it to. They're very effective and talk about a way to build trust with the native american community but also to let predators no like. Hey we're watching. Yeah we're we're we're all coming together and saying this is important to us and we put resources towards things that are important to us and you're not going to get away with this anymore. Yeah yeah well for earth feather. It's about more than just righting. Past wrongs this is about creating a safe space for her children. And our children's children. I was back on my childhood where i was doing a lot more. I was riding my bike. I was playing outside. I was climbing trees and my children. Now it's like they're afraid to walk to the park near afraid to leave my side at the grocery store. I don't feel like things have really changed. I just think that there's more of an awareness of the issue and for emily joaquin's who likes to look at the issue through a wider lens. Teaching her daughters about the plight of missing and murdered indigenous. Women isn't just about understanding the problem but about aknowledging the allies that they do have around them and teaching them how to reach for those helping hands so can continue to move things forward in a more positive way. Because i can now point two different instances in places that people do care that people are trying to bring awareness that people are trying to help solve and so when i approach this topic i like to talk to about an historical aspect because i like to show them that. There were people for one hundred sixty five years praying for us to how solutions praying for us to be able to get to a point where we can talk about our safety where we can talk about the things that have happened to us in a way that can bring more safety and protection for not only ourselves for everybody around us and i teach them that because i tell them that one day you might have to speak in you know and sometimes they told me like i can't hear anymore. I don't want to see anything really pizza. Yeah walk off. So i would be very aware of their boundaries. What feels comfortable. I really enjoyed our conversations with emily. Maw sheen's with the folks from the state patrol with earth feather. I mean it was really educational for me and it really helped me learn concrete steps that i can take myself to move this issue forward. So we're going to be releasing these full interviews so that maybe you can listen as well and and and learn more about the situation and what you can do. Yeah i was so incredibly grateful. You know it's it's really difficult hearing because it's a different history than maybe we're aware of. Yeah and so it's a it's a learning curve but also one of the things that i love about being a reporter and talking to people is really getting their perspective and really listening. You know walking in their shoes. There's no better way to try to understand a person's journey than just listening to them. And so i was incredibly grateful. A lot of it was just listening to their stories with an open. Mind an open heart because going into this. You know like. I said earlier like didn't understand like what is it. Is it a serial killer. Is it a predators. Is it like why are there. So many women and girls and also there's there's men who boys that are missing. We chose to focus on the missing and murdered indigenous women but there are so many and two spirits. And i know that that term i taking that i let i. That's the thing. I think they would give it to you freely but i mean why. Don't you explain the two spirits because i felt the same kind of energy coming from you that that i felt when i heard it too. Yeah just that. They don't see transgender individuals. As being different they see them as being specialists having to spirits they have two sides to them and they celebrate that. I just love that idea. Yeah i do too. So as of april first. Two thousand twenty one. There were one hundred four names on the list of native people missing from washington state. They are angel be anderson. Isaiah j bagley. Douglas j becker dale blevins jaden s broadsword winter star a brown mother. Casey de burke marco a casio benito chamorro edith. M clever andrew l. cloth sabrina. Lynn coal void l. Coal growth kelsey collins. Charlie jay cortez. elias feet. colt theresa k. Davis matthew w dean it telea s diamond martin. G ellison at nisha h. God ios and kevin gallen willis felicity m garcia carlos. Gascon mary l. gates adams. See george brea goggles. Peter g. gray. Dorothy may gus ella set tegretol janice hannigan michael e hansen dean a harvey bryce f courtney see holden and l. hudson alexia huffman jerry. H highest hyacinths. Linda l jackson cordelia a james boon. Mary e johnson. Joe j. caclum david di keesey rookie f kindness. Lalita d kumar rosalita f longwy. We arca 'em losure lanista and shy lynn. Luce cloud l. c. e. luce rudy massias gabrielle. J. mccollum justin l. mcconnell. Bruce mcculloch george w mcdonald jessica. C mcdonald ginny a majo- elissa a macklemore. Joseph m mickey julie. k miller colin morris jordan l. moses travis and neely kaley am nelson jerry. Joseph a pacheco. Elton j. patch p merlin. Our pa- kudos borough and patrick anthony. C peters edwin. Own and george w cooler. Roberta j rains sierra c. Roberts demel a roofs anthony case. Sam daniel t samson carlotta sanchez e. Score now want. Sam harry de shale frederick j -sego lucas m snively roland j spencer tyler star aiden de gar reba our stewart teresa ten kielmann harris daisy. 'em tom and heath tamila d taylor brooke m thomas matteo s thompson. Eleanor m trujillo. Giovanni kate tyler justice a valley jasmine a and jordan. Jay viele a lease am-viet johnny l. wosse karen l. odessa l. white d'antoine zane j. wolf s kiro iraq. Hey y'all up if you are a family member of a missing person and would like their photo to be included on the washington state patrol missing persons website. Please contact 'em u. p. u. at w. s. p. dot w. a. dot gov you can also call eight hundred five four three five six seven eight and we will be putting up information on our website scene of the crime. Podcast dot com. I'm kim shepard with caroline soro and this is the scene of the crime finally spraying. And i'm saying goodbye snow. Hello adventure during the honda dream garage spring event. You can get epi deals on your favorite honda model. Ready to get rugged. Take the off road in an all wheel drive honda. Suv like the crv. Hr v. pilot aspect on redesigned rich. I wanna take spring road trip then. Checkout fuel-efficient turbocharged. Civic or record. Say goodbye to winter and hello to a new honda. Don't miss huge savings during the honda. Dream garage springbok now at your local honda dealer.
State lawmakers meet amid pandemic, protest
"Support comes from soaring heart natural beds where concern for the health and safety of sleep now extends to everything from curbside pickup and delivery to secure in-store appointments showrooms in seattle bellevue and now in edmonds or online at storing heart dot com. Hey it's patricia mercy. it's tuesday. this is seattle now. State lawmakers were met with security checkpoints on their way into work yesterday as the legislative session got underway in olympia and the f. b. i. Is warning of more armed demonstrations at state capitals around the country in the days ahead. We'll talk with. Kyw's casey martin and austin jenkins from olympia in a minute first. Let's get you caught up paton. Seattle's police chief said monday. That the investigation into two officers who may have participated in the dc riot was done out of an abundance of caution interim chief adrian diaz said the findings would be shared with the fbi. I made it very clear when soon this position that any violation of community trust or any action that threatens our ability to serve. This city will be met with full accountability. The officers are on paid. Leave diaz reiterated that anyone found to be part of the riott will be fired. Amazon is being sued by the conservative social media network. It booted off its web hosting service for not doing enough to tamp down calls for political violence parlor which says it saw a surge of interest after twitter deleted. President trump's account is asking a federal court to step in to block the move in their complaint filed. Yesterday the company says shutting them down with kill parlors business justice it set to take off an amazon spokesperson tells. Geekwire parlor is in violation of its terms of service and the lawsuit is without merit and a man who got national attention as a leader of this summer's black lives matter protests on capitol hill is facing domestic violence and abuse allegations. Kyw spoke with two women who went on the record to say that razz simone physically abused them and coerce them into giving him money. Simone denied the allegations in a three hour interview with our reporter ashley. Who ruko if you follow the story of chop you'll want to read the whole thing that our website. Kyw dot org state. lawmakers opened a legislative session. Like no other in olympia on monday. In the midst of a pandemic threats from people who say they're intent on disruption. Legislators some on the job for the first time navigated barricades in the national guard to get to the chamber outside the state capital. Protesters gathered some with guns. Two people were arrested. Kyw reporters austin jenkins and casey martin were there. And are here now casey. I'm going to start with you yesterday. We learned about an fbi bulletin warning of armed protests at state capitals around the country leading up to the inauguration. What are you hearing about that and the plan to handle it right now. Washington state patrol. They said today that they had received that letter and they were taking it seriously. They also said frankly. Were kinda ahead of the game here. you know. We have so many troops here. We have a lot of police presence of we have this massive fence so they said a lot of the safety protocols. A lot of the warnings that they're getting from the fbi said we've already taken these precautions and we're already starting to plan and prepare for inauguration and other events so they started very calm and very sure of their safety so far and you were outside. The capitol on monday with hundreds of national guard troops and a handful of demonstrators. What was the story outside the capitol you know. It was really remarkable to see that so many people had said that they were going to show up. I talked with many right wing groups that were planning to to camp out on the steps and really have this kind of organized occupation. I spoke to people that. Said i'm going to be at the washington. State capital twenty four seven and then wednesday happened the attack congress. There was a security breach here in olympia and then a lot of those people just disappeared. I talked to folks that cancelled that did not want to be part of this. We're really worried about the violence. What ended up happening was hundreds of national guards troops surrounding the capitol building and very few protesters that were planning to be here. Probably about thirty. Thirty five people at max today. They were armed. They were very vocal. But it was a very small group standing in the rain facing off. A wall of silence Law enforcement and casey understand lawmakers had to go through some serious security to get inside of the capital. That was really wild to watch. Because there's this huge fence completely surrounding the capitol building and as lawmakers were showing up to work. They're pulling up and they're facing this checkpoint it's like they're crossing the border into canada. There's all these armed troops come up to the car checking. I d get waved through and while they're getting wave through. Protesters are sending their hurling insults at them yelling stuff at them and then they safely get to pass through both offense and the police so it was a wild. I for sure. Austin you spent the day inside the state senate the only day. They'll show up in person they'll be working remotely from here on out because of the pandemic how did that go. Any disruptions inside no it was like a different world in there was a lot warmer and a lot drier and arguably a lot safer as well but it was in many ways odd. Today's it was there were some familiar rhythms to it as well but it did look really different. I was in the state senate and instead of having forty nine state senators on the floor. There were fewer than a dozen because of public health requirements. There were some senators occupying the public gallery space up above and when it came time to vote it was like the march of the penguins. They would bring them out single file under the floor to the back of the chamber and they would vote into a single microphone and then walk off so it was a little bit like watching your kids. Do their little part at the school play up. This was actually the state legislature. Yeah and that's a lot different. It's usually a day filled with a lot of buzz and excitement. And the halls are packed with lobbyists and lawmakers what are lawmakers saying about security. Right now will. This was certainly a topic of concern for their families. I talked to state senator joe win. Who said his wife was concerned about him. Coming down here for this start of the session and what he was saying is state. lawmakers shouldn't be having to think about that and their families shouldn't have to be thinking about that when really the focus should be on. What are they going to get done in. The first hundred days off michigan just banned the open carrying of weapons their state capital any support for that here. Are you hearing anything about that. That's definitely one to watch because there's already a bill that's been introduced. It's a top priority for the washington gun responsibility group. That's the pro gun control group in the state and i did ask the senate majority leader. Andy billig the question about whether this has a better chance this year because of all is going on. He didn't commit but he's certainly made it sound like it's gonna be discussed. This is question for both of you. The media has also been a target. I've watched video journalists in olympia being harassed and threatened. And i want to ask you. How are both of you feeling about your safety on the job right now. I'm thinking about it a lot more than i ever have. And you know frankly. My kids are pretty freaked out about me going to work these days which has never in my entire career in their lifetimes. Bene- topic of conversation. That said i also feel like we have a really important duty to be here to cover. What's happening. I do think we look out for each other and that at least at this point there is a lot of security on this. Campus feels very secure but just as the lawmakers are having to think about security. When they go about doing their work we are now in an era when we as reporters are having to think about our security while we go about reporting the news. Casey i saw some of the gear that you took out you at a bulletproof vest. A gas mask and a helmet. How are you thinking about your safety and security right now. Have you been harassed. I arrest and i feel like it's getting a little hairier. Each time journalists. Go out and try to do these stories. I you know we've reported on dangerous tight situations before but typically we are not the target you know. We are just a fly on the wall of of what's going on. It's very different when you show up. Where the crowd is targeting journalists. Some of the crowd was yelling. Some stuff out at us today. You know these are armed. People that have ar fifteen rifles with them. And we're just trying to deliver the news. So i feel incredibly supportive. As austin said i do feel like i have a comrades here in the news media and and been great to provide so much great personal safety equipment but it is alarming. That are we coming up and reporting on violence but some of that balance is actually being directed towards journalists. Austin one more thing. I'm curious about since we'll be doing the governing over zoom this time that's a first verse state. Lawmakers how are they feeling about a remote session. Yeah definitely republicans were quite opposed to this idea of going fully remote. They wanted the rules to say that you could choose to work at the capitol or work back in your district. They wanted to open the capital to the public. Majority democrats rejected those proposed amendments to these new rules that will allow for a remote or hybrid session. A few ski people will be at the capitol each day gil crew but mostly lawmakers will go back to their districts and they've told us there will be hiccups. There will be glitches. They are going to try to do this by zoom and you can imagine all manner of things happening when it's lawmakers but then what about when you do public hearings with members of the public. So how many kids. How many pets are gonna interrupt. How many people are going to walk through the back around in their underwear. There may be a lot of bloopers when this session said and done. But it's going to be. It's going to be interesting and it is certainly unprecedented. Well we can hope everybody stays safe. Casey martin and austin jenkins talking with us from olympia. Thank you very much appreciate your time today. Thank you seattle now is produced by jason again. Caroline chamberlain gomez thank claire mcgrane. Matt jorgensen does our music. I'm patricia murphy. See you tomorrow.
189 AOPA on Warbirds Adventures Case and its Impact on CFIs, Cirrus Safety Award + GA News
"Hello again welcome aviation news. Talk where we talk. Generally the ation with news and find tips pilot suit and pilots to help. Keep you safe. I'm extra step today. We'll be talking with a. Oh p general. Counsel just teen harrison and alpa jared allen about a court decision in the warburg adventures case in both its immediate and potential future impact upon flight schools and flight instruction and after the news. We have lots of your e and questions to share last week. In episode one eighty eight. We talked with eric gunderson about the mid air collision involving a cirrus in metro liner near denver. So if you didn't hear that episode you may want to check it out. And i'd like to ask you for your help right now. Take just a moment to share the show with a friend who you think might enjoy it and then follow up with him or her and suggests that they subscribe to the show. If you're using the apple podcast app. Just look for the three dots at the bottom. Thanks so much for your help this week. In the news a grummin tiger pilot got a big scare when he thought he was being shot at two pilots were fired. After an incomplete preflight inspection that led to some aircraft damage in a helicopter was used an unusual way at a high school. All this and more and the news starts now from. Alpa dot org. This is about the adventures case many. Alpa members have been reaching out to us about the recent court decision to allow an faa emergency cease and desist order to stand against ward adventures. A company that was providing flight instruction in a limited category ward without an exemption for such an organization but decision leaves many questions and concerns on its week. It's useful to analyze the decision from two perspectives. One immediate impacts and to potential future impacts and by the way there was an article published online by major magazine that suggested flight schools and even independent. cfi's might have to get a part one thirty five certificate to teach which would be a substantial burden so to get to the bottom of this. I spoke with. Alpa's general counsel justin harrison ao pa. Attorney jared ellen and you'll hear that conversation later in the show from web dot com grummin tire intercepted by f. sixteens with flares inside presidential t f are f sixteen intercepted a german tiger. That violated a. T. f. r. involving president biden's visit to his home in delaware according to a secret service statement on may sixteenth at approximately one pm. A small aircraft violated the restricted. Airspace in wilmington delaware for standard protocol. Us military aircraft responded. The aircraft was intercepted in the pilot redirected to a local airport. The woman pilot told john martin director of aviation at new garden airport in pennsylvania where he landed that he and his wife were returning home to an unspecified. Newark airport from ocean city maryland and were unaware of the t. Afar barton said both were shaken up adding not only were. They intercepted by. F16's but they thought they were being shot at by the flares that defense department spokesman confirmed quote. The norad fighter dispense signal flares during the intercept in an effort to gain the pilots attention and direct them safely out of the restricted zone. Martin said the pilot was later interviewed by the secret service and flew the tiger home from new garden. The next day martin said this was the first aircraft since biden's inauguration to be intercepted and then landed and fifty seven though. He said the a. told him that there have been between four and seven interceptions every weekend. There is a t.f. Are in that most landed nearby. Chester county airport. Martin expressed frustration over the presidential ours which effectively shut down the airport. He shared some of the same prostration experienced by new jersey and florida airport operators during weekend presidential t afars during the last administration from mlive dot com airline fires. Two pilots after emergency door flew off and insul- bound airplane just before takeoff to pilots have been fired after an airplane. Emergency exit door was ripped off moments before a flight to michigan's upper peninsula. W l you see tv reports that boutique airlines pilots failed to complete a preflight checklist causing the door to open before takeoff. Tomjanovich wakefield's at his carry on bag was sucked out of the opening during a flight from minneapolis to ironwood which would be in the upper peninsula of michigan. Several other passengers also relieved there from experienced during the incident. During a gogo bec- iron county airport board meeting on monday. We're not trying to hide. Or deny anything sean simpson. Ceo boutique airline said during the meeting. W l. you. Uc also reported the san francisco based airline plans to resign from their contract with a gogo. Bec- iron county airport but did not give a reason. Why boutique is the small upper peninsula. Airports commercial airline boutique airlines will continue to provide service until the airport. Find other options. According to the tv station and the story doesn't mention what type of aircraft were being flown. But the website for boutique says they fly both pilatus. Pc twelve and king air three fifties from the air force website at af dot mil washington state patrol pilots successfully test special laser eye protection developed at wright patterson labs and my thanks to isaac alexander who sent me the story you can find him on twitter at jet city star. The story says aiming laser at an aircraft as a federal crime that canetti offenders up to five years in jail or cost them two hundred fifty thousand dollar fine even with us heavy potential penalty laser strikes a become increasingly more common according to the faa sixty eight hundred and fifty two. Such instance were reported in two thousand twenty compared with three hundred and eighty five in two thousand six so far this. Here's of joy lazing up twenty percent over last year. Laser strikes are almost always made at low altitudes. Were aircraft is taking off preparing to lend to parts of flying. That require the most attention from pilot. Most laser eye protection works by filtering out green or red light the color most commonly used in handheld lasers unfortunately according to faa studies in years of pilot. Experience this can change the pilot's ability to accurately read the instrument control panel a twenty nineteen. Faa report suggested. This problem might be fixed. By changing the type of lighting the control panel researchers at the air force research laboratory recently came up with a better solution. One that was successfully tested on the job by washington state patrol pilots according to lab personnel. They use the cockpit. Compatibility design software that they have and they modified it for commercial. Use the commercial version called. Kelly c. a. l. i. for commercial aviation low intensity filters out the laser light. But not the light coming from the pilot's instrument panel simply put they said the lenses maximize protection while minimizing the impact to the cockpit. The researcher explained the during the riots and twenty twenty law enforcement reached out to the community and ask who knows anything about laser eye protection. The seven hundred eleventh human performance wing and the naval medical research unit dayton also at wright patterson all juggled a number of briefings about what is available in the industrial base effects on human factors etc. Most the protection available to the police was the standard issue. Non kelly type however one particular group of aviators in washington state tried the kelly products decided. They were heads and shoulders above the others. One of those aviators was trooper pilot. Tactical flight officer. Cameron iverson of the washington state patrol. Everson said we have some new laser glasses. We were supposed to test out that the airforce had developed. I know we were the first ones to test them. He explained that the aircraft he flies gets around twenty to twenty five laser strikes a year. He said quote we've been fighting about eighty percent of the violators. We can spot the source of the laser light using an infrared camera and then walk other law enforcement officers to the address or location actually apprehend these people unlike the non kelly lenses color. Perception is minimally affected quote. it doesn't distort colors to tremendously bad said iverson. It does darken up white. Making it look more yellowish but your reds and blues even your greens that are displayed on the instrument pal screens still look red blue and green. And he said just last night. We had another two laser incidents in the classes. Worked great well. This is an awesome story. I think for years. I thought that eventually we will find a way to reduce the number of strikes through education of the public. I'm not convinced that probably the long term solutions for pilots to where laser eye protection when they fly at night from duluth news tribune dot com portable music speaker report off floatplane propellers during takeoff at duluth sky harbor airport quote. It wasn't until i sat down and began to fill out the ntsb paperwork at my computer. As i was going to listen to some music that i discovered what i believed it happened. The pilot wrote a portable speaker left on a flow planet duluth sky harbor airport ripped off the plane's propeller last year during takeoff according to the ntsb in its final report the ntsb determined the twenty twenty incidents probable cause was quote the pilot's failure to move an object from the plane's exterior which impacted the propeller blades when he applied full power causing them to fracture damage. The airplane knowing your is were reported and the pilot and his passenger were able to put life jackets on and escape the substantially damaged aircraft before it began to sink in the duluth superior harbor according to the ntsb the pilot of an icon. A-5 fibia airplane taxied on the water before facing into the wind for takeoff and applying full power. About five seconds later the pilot heard a loud bang. You shut down. The engine climbed out of the plane to look back and saw all through the propeller blades. Were gone it is likely that the audio speaker which was left on the airplane struck the propeller blades which resulted in the propeller blades separating from the pillar and penetrating the fuselage. The ntsb said the pilot told investigators. He has not been able to find the speaker since the incident from planning pilot mag dot com survey results. Pilots are overwhelmingly for restrictions on governments use of aid. Esp for enforcement and they talk about a recent survey. The magazine did of whether government agencies should face greater restrictions and how they use a dsp data for enforcement actions. And i think the magazine probably did this survey as a result of the martha lumpkin incident that we talked about back in episode one eighty five which he flew under the bridge story says our first question was a hot button. One quote should the faa have the right to use a dsp data to find examples of violations. That are not otherwise reported to them. And i'm pretty sure there's a typo here on the story. I'll tell you what the story says. And what i think it should say it says our first question was a hot button. One should the faa have the right to use a dsp data to find examples of violations. That are not reported to them. Three quarters of those who answer the survey questions thought that such fishing expeditions should be allowed. And i think they meant should not be allowed and it continues on while just over ten percent thought it was okay in some instances with just seven percent thinking it was just flat out okay and by putting the word not in that would make it consistent with the headline which says pilots are overwhelmingly four restrictions on government use of a dsp for enforcement continuing on but as our original story found. It's not just the faa that's using a dsp against pilots state agencies and even counties and cities are turning to the data as well. Our question should government agencies other than the faa be allowed to use a dsp data for enforcement of airspace landing or other violations a whopping eighty two percent of respondents answered with an no with fewer than ten percent thinking. Such uses of the data should be permissible and seventeen percent thinking. It was okay in certain unspecified incidences asked. Would you be for new. Federal regulations limiting the faa's use of ads before enforcement action against pilots. Eighty seven percent of survey takers thought. That was a great idea. With eleven percent thinking we should leave congress out of the conversation two percent declining to answer so no big surprise pilots would not like to see. Esp used for enforcement purposes from alpa dot org rudder misapplication cited in fetal king air crash. Ntsb determines probable cause of twenty nineteen plunge into hangar. Investigators found no faults in the left engine of a beechcraft king. Three fifty that stop producing power just before the aircraft rolled to inverted and crashed into a hangar. Seventeen seconds after take-off from addison texas on june thirtieth twenty nineteen. The crash killed both pilots and eight passengers on a private flight to florida. So the ntsb has just come out with their final probable. Cause on this. Which essentially says it's pilot error and we'll be interviewing someone in a future episode to talk about the story in more detail in here. Some updates on stories we've talked about in recent episodes. This one comes from w. f. m. j. dot com judge refuses to dismiss low y issue. That's youngstown state university stadium flight case against pilot in a nine page ruling handed down youngstown. Municipal court judge carlo baldwin dismissed a petition to have the case against pilot christopher wilkinson thrown out in november two thousand nineteen authorities charge wilkinson with inducing panic and disorderly conduct after allegedly flying. Single engine cessna. Close to the press box and stadium lights while fans were watching the september. Twenty eighth game against robert morris. Wilkinson's lawyer said it should have been up to the faa to prosecute wilkinson and not the city. The ruling says in part other state courts have found that laws criminalizing unsafe. Operation of an aircraft are not preempted by federal law and in a similar outcome. In a similar story this comes from the east hampton star dot com. David wiesner the low-flying pilot who was charged with second degree reckless endangerment after buzzing sag harbor long island at around five thirty pm on april thirteenth this year in minutes before that areas of springs was arraigned on may seventh in sag harbor village justice court for the alleged misdemeanor. Mr. wisner's ninety day banned from east hampton airport is ongoing. And here's another update massachusetts bill to charge a thousand dollar landing fee to be revised this comes from generally nation news dot com a massachusetts state senator who proposed to build a charge. A one thousand dollar landing feet for virtually all j. aircraft now says he plans to quote extensively revised the bill before it comes before the relevant committee. According to a report by gordon gilbert of aviation news international best state senator initially proposed quote an act to mitigate the climate impact of private in corporate air travel unquote to reduce carbon emissions generated by what he sees as luxury aircraft owned by the ultra wealthy. He said from feedback. I've received from aviation advocates and others about the bill. It's clear that more should be included specifically flights used for pilot training sightseeing tours and smaller cessna airplanes or those registered massachusetts and owned by a massachusetts resident. So we'll keep track of that story and those are updates finally in the news. If you dry it they will come carrollton hs rally to dry baseball field for district play. This comes from kinsey. You dot com in carrollton. Missouri says rain has soaked listening area putting a damper on many high school baseball district. Tournaments one high school went all out to make their field. Playable carrollton high school is the host and number one seed in the class. Three district sixteen baseball tournament since the tournament began. It has been idle due to heavy rainfall in wet field conditions coaches players and administration from chs the carrollton park superintendent and other members of the community work diligently to dry the soaked field manual labor rakes shovels. Atv's and even helicopter used and they include video and pictures of the drying process. And let me pass along our best luck to carrollton. Hi and congratulations for your ingenuity using helicopter. Help dry your baseball field well. That's the news for this week. Coming up next your letters and questions and we'll talk with attorneys from alpa about the warbirds adventure rolling and its on flight. Instruction all right here on the aviation. News talk podcast. Let's go to some of your emails and questions. I used to put these toward the end of the show and at the show ran long i would end up dropping them but i think i'll go ahead and start putting those up a little earlier in the show and see if we include more of them in the future because some of these are just great. This comes from dick in florida. He's a major in the civil air patrol. He says can't tell you how much i enjoyed and learn from your interview with john tagus now. That was episode. One eighty four about a boeing test pilot. Who had an engine out of emergency and how he handled it. He says i sent a copy out to almost all of my pilot in civil air patrol contacts considering the comment on the hemispheric rule in the lower peninsula florida which he said would be basically below the interstate for orlando area. The rule is different at runs. North for even altitudes and south odd. Altitudes never heard that before he says the folks in the florida keys or the conch republic pride themselves on being different. Some visitors might consider them odd. That's how i've come to remember south odd who north even less funny. Thanks so much ticket. I visited the keys a couple times many years ago. And i just love that part of florida and this comes from rafael. Who's also coincidentally in florida regarding episode one. Eighty five and martha lumpkin. He says in regards to his lungs under the bridge. Escapade i have found that many pilots have responded to it with two hazardous attitudes. That we're taught to avoid anti authority and invulnerability makes me wonder how safe we really are up there with so many pilots who selfishly feels. She did a good thing. Adding to london's own impulsivity and another hazardous attitude and just review the hazardous attitudes. We talked about these episode. One fifty four or we talked about a class. B violation in las vegas hazardous. Attitudes are macho impulsively resignation invulnerability an anti authority and some researchers have proposed a six one which is loss of face. Here's some comments from episode one eighty-seven this comes from sherry and oregon. She says i recently listened to your episode one eighty-seven talking about hearing loss while the information given on the show was pertinent. I feel you did not address some important points for pilots who fly with hearing loss one at the first sign of hearing loss. Get a hearing test and get fitted with hearing aids when getting fitted the most important factor is the hearing professional. Who does the fitting real ear. Measurements is a must to. I was hoping to hear some discussion as to how pilots with hearing loss cope in the flying environment. I'm one of those pilots. I set my aides to tele coil only mode and use a light speed zulu three noise canceling headset. Lightspeed earmuffs can fit over my ear and hearing aid i carry a backup pair of hearing aids or h. As in regularly change the headset. you're patting. there are pros and cons to this and other solutions sherri. Thank you so much for sharing this information. Now you use the word teluk. Oil which. I was not familiar with so i went out to. Nc heure loss dot org which is the north carolina hearing loss association. Here's what i learned says. A wonderful feature available on many hearing aids is called the telecom also referred to as a switch or t coil a tiny coil of wire around a core that will induce an electric current in the coil. When it's in the presence of a changing magnetic field which by the way we'd be like speaker tele coil therefore is an alternate input device for hearing aid. Normally hearing aid listens with its microphone. Amplifies what it here is but with tele coil used as the input source instead of or in addition to the microphone the hearing aid can hear magnetic signal which represents sound and it says on telecom equipped hearing aids the where must turn on or switch to tell coil mode by moving a small switch older models to the position or by changing to a program mode by pressing a button on the ear level device or on a remote control that is set up to use the tele coil as an input source instead of or. In addition to the microphones. Some users prefer that only uses the tele. Coil and not the microphones when they are intel coil and others prefer a combination of teluk. Oil and microphones. There is no right way for everyone but there may be a best way for each person it says. Originally the telecom was meant to hear the magnetic signal naturally generated in an older telephone which must be the source of the name tele coil. Who speaker was driven by powerful magnets. This allowed someone with a history of the telephone better if they just turned on or switch to teluk oil as an input source for their hearing aid and now there are many more magnetic sources that can be heard by intel coil equipped hearing aid. Well that is great information. Thanks so much. Passing that along sherry in here are some comments about last week's episode. One eight on the mid air collision over denver from scott in colorado. He says really enjoy your work. Max do we know if the series involved in the mid air was a g five or g six with higher caps a minimum altitude. And yes. scott. It was a twenty sixteen aircraft. Which would make it a five and yes typically people would teach that you want to be at least six hundred feet in the climb before pulling that parachute whereas in the older aircraft which are lighter and have a somewhat smaller parachute. Five hundred feet would be typical altitude. Where people would i consider using the parachute as they climb though. Sarah says that there is no minimum altitude because there may be circumstances we might still want to pull the parachute at lower altitudes and from william in missouri. He says i listened to your show on the centennial mid air. I'm curious about the proper. Go around for the cirrus. Once he realized he was wide on the approach assuming he would figure this out on the base turn does he just continues straight in other words. Continue the base leg contact tower. This would put him. Crossing the approach. Were one seven left. He didn't turn left or right does he. Just hope that there is no one on approach with parallel. Perhaps he did realize he was going to be too wide but the timing was such that there was a plane on his way. And william. what's your thoughts on that. It's an interesting thought. I don't think people often give a whole lot of thought to. What do you do for a go around on the base. A my reaction to that is as soon as one recognize any kind of an issue. We should go round immediately. Add full power and climb and then if you're on a base i would turn parallel to the runways because if you continue on bass as wayne was asking that would put a pilot in conflict with the down wind or opposing traffic on opposite base. So i'm taking paralleling. The runways makes the most sense. I probably then correct to get over. The centerline increase the spacing from any opposite direction. Traffic on the other down win. So those are my thoughts on that william so much for sharing that. And here's comet from kim son. He is a doctor. Who i know here in california and i thought he really has some good insight here. He said as a low time pilot. I think i could have been this pilot the one we are criticizing just recently training for my commercial overshot. The final twice and once a few months after getting my serous. I descended into the pattern in an unfamiliar airport at one hundred fifty nuts because i just passed a mountain range to get to the airport of the valley. I was descending quickly. I was trying to look at the airport and is vr. Only pilot. then. I had no idea of which power attitude would yield which setting. It was only when atc actually hinted that. I was going to fast that. I remembered the standard settings. I'm certain the pilot never intended to fly the pattern at those speeds ever intended to overshoot the runway of course never intended to ram into the metro liner. I actually don't think his mistakes are that rare. I have done those stupid things. That i was just lucky to not hit anything. We humans are. We can general eyewitness the frailty of the human body and spirit every day. Many years ago. Inexperienced surgeon at harvard teaching hospital operated on the wrong leg of a patient. How could that happen. He told me that he had never thought he would make that kind of basic mistake. Just like some of you are currently thinking you will never make six delta julius mistakes and of course i was the series involved in the mid air continues. I hope the pilot recovers well from this traumatic experience that he gets back in the air and try to become a better pilot. I'm sure he's his toughest critic the past few days and i hope we have some compassion for him and welcome him back to the community with our open arms comes on. That is really great message. Thanks so much for sharing that. And yeah i think that You know probably gives all of us Reason just kind of sit and think even as we get more experience we still have to remember that any of us could make a mistake even with some of the basics in aviation and. Here's something posted. On facebook by cirrus see sip instructor. He said i just instituted. A new rule turns to base above traffic pattern. Altitude or below ninety or above. One hundred. ten knots. He said when i have parallel operation so two more runways the down would with target. Which would be the distance. The down one is from the parallel runway of one mile or more. So you don't wanna get too close to that runway. And he said if he's within three quarters of a mile cross track for any runway. You can't have a tailwind on the base leg. Good comments there and here's comment on facebook from david. He says i remember a few years. Back coming back into k. p. o. c. two parallel runways. I was cleared for the left. And the guy in the right to sell it to intercept my final. We were quarter mile apart in both less than a mile from the field hence low and slow and i noticed him. Drifting conclusion situation awareness with palo runways needs to be increased. There are bows out there doing wild things i ended up doing an immediate go around. The other pilot was given a phone number to call scariest moment for me. And here's an email from a cfi in colorado. He says max. I just listened to your episode on the mirrored centennial. I must see if i at that airport at agree with lots of your points from the show. One thing i'd like expand upon is the over. Reliance on autopilot. I've flown with a number of pilots have been trained by c. Sips that are instructing. Their students to use the autopilot in the via far traffic pattern. He says no. I'm not a sip. Which would be a serious standardize instructor pilot. I haven't seen any serious publication where listens encouraged. You are correct on that as we saw with this accident. The autopilot doesn't know what's best in the pic has to be ready to take over when the situation dictates. In the scenario the best course of action would have been go around or starting the pattern of the proper airspeeds my enjoy the show and appreciate all the content and i followed up with Some people at serious about this afterwards and they confirmed what this pilot. And i believe which has there is no guide serious training material to use autopilots in the traffic pattern to me. That's just absolutely absurd. The auto pilot is not going to be the right tool for being able to make your turns to base in final. It just doesn't turn fast enough. So if you're using the autopilots in the traffic pattern cut that out just ridiculous. I in order for that to work. You'd have to be flying an absurdly wide traffic pattern in generally. We don't fly huge traffic patterns so anyway just my two cents on that. Here's an email from hessian new york. He says great job of the podcast. Always i just listened to the centennial episode. I've been following your comments on thread on copa. That's the sears. Owner pilots association. Your nine and ten lessons were very instructive in particular. I'm going to take to heart your encouragement to bank up to thirty degrees in the pattern. I admit i am one of those pilots who use shutler banks mostly because i tend to fly wider patterns and don't need a steeper bank but perhaps i fly wider patterns because i use shallow banks and so overshoot afifi closer. A couple of comments. On the centennial mid air i was going to create the sears pilot with reacting quickly and pulling the shoot but it was interesting to hear your hypothesis shoot deployed automatically because of the impact and by the way they preliminary. Ntsb report has come out in it. It says quote. The pilot report of the airplane was not control after the impact and he deployed the cirrus airframe parachute system or caps in. My hedge continues. Also i think that there hasn't been enough recognition into the metro honor pilot. He was very professional in his voice on the radio. Even collision was very calm. I think he was a credit to the profession. Keep up the great work in the podcast. Also wanted to let you know that i just donated one hundred dollars to the show via paypal. Hey thanks so much. Appreciate that mahesh and fly magazine. Senior editor rob mark. How to comment on the same show. Hey max it's robin chicago. I just wanted to say atta boy. Episode about the mid air at centennial airport. I think their professionalism Yeah well we'll have to wait and see about how that works out because obviously the pilot on the series was not completely in touch with what was going on around him which is dangerous to anybody at any airport But you and eric Had a really good conversation. I enjoyed the the math behind it as well. I think that any pilot. That didn't understand the math. That you were explaining should probably Schedule a little time with their instructor and because that is absolutely important valuable information to now anyway nice job. Keep up the good work. We'll see ya. Thanks very much and now. Here's a listener question from victor amac's this is victim was flying on approach the day with a cessna. One seventy two. J one thousand and selected the borough minimum for the l. nov. Enough whether when it came up we only had the l. mouth so i was trying to reset the barrow minima to the higher of minima but i couldn't find any way of doing that. Seems that the only way to do that would be to reload the approach. Completely which once. You're actually close enough. Then that that's probably not a good idea to be deleting approach trying to re-enter it so i was wondering a missing a trick or is there a way to reset thoughts on not She could offer. That might be of interest to people if you know the way to do that. Thanks very much. Thanks so much for your question. I followed up with victor since he mentioned l. nov slash v navin. There are very few approaches here in the us and by the way. I know it's different in other countries but here we have very few approaches with l. nap slash veena minimums the don't also have l. peavy minimums but it turns out that victor was flying one of those rare approaches and it was the tulsa. Oklahoma are have three six left. Which has l knapp slash veena an l. nov minimums. But no ill peavy minimums now. Here are a couple of important points. I without waas capable. Gps receiver as soon as you cross the intermediate fix the imf or as soon as you activate vectors to final. You need to look at the gps or if you're flying alas last cockpit you need to look at the hsi to see which minimums have been. Unseeded doesn't say l. p. v. does it say l. slash veena. Does it say l. Nafe a lot of pilots don't do this and they'll missing. What victor saw. Which was that. His approach had been downgraded to l. neff minimums which are almost always higher than the l. v. or l. nov slashing minimums. Victor did catch that downgrade but then he wanted to be able to enter the new minimums into a system in many glass. Cockpits you load the minimums when you load the approach so you could go back and reload the approach in her new minimums that way but there are a variety of reasons that you may not want to do that. One of which is you will briefly lose course guidance. By the way victor. If you were to do that you don't need to. I delete the old approach in the garmin glass. Cockpits that i fly in anytime you load. New approach is simply wipes out the old approach. So deleting the old approach. I is just a wasted step. That's unnecessary and really takes up. Valuable time with lewis to change the bureau minimums after already loaded approach. Just push the timer reference soft key-. It's the third soft key- from the right. You'll find that the bottom line of that screen that it brings up allows you to change the birmingham's victor. Thanks again for your question. Hope that helps and coming up next our conversation with alpa attorneys justin harrison. And jared allen. All right here on the aviation news. Talk about cast. Tell you a little bit about our guests. Justin harrison is a as general counsel and corporate secretary. She leads their legal department and overseas. Alpa's legal services plan. She's a commercial rated pilot and flies aircraft ranging from an air cam experimental that she co built to a lear five prior to joining. Alpa harrison ran her own law firm for a decade after serving as general counsel of the nevada cancer institute jared allen is managing attorney for gop as legal services plan and is an instrument rated private pilot. Legal services plan helps members with over five thousand legal matters year in addition to medical matters. Now here's our conversation with justin harrison and jared allen. We'll just seen in. Jared welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us here. Today it's going to be here next rabbits well. There was a recent court ruling that could impact how flight instructors do their business. I understand it led to a lot of phone calls. They're in as i understand it. What the the crux of this is whether or not flight instruction considered a commercial activity. Can you just kind of explained historically how has the faa viewed flight instruction the sure we can do that and max. I think it's important to know that. The crux of this particular case was how can you provide flight instruction in a limited category aircraft so the case wasn't about flight instruction in general it was about flight instruction in olympic at bray aircraft and specifically f. a. r. a. Ninety one three fifteen bat was the regulation that was at focused when it comes to flight instruction which is involved in this case The faa has traditionally said that flight instruction is instruction compensated flight instruction is compensation for the instruction you not for carrying people around and so there are multiple legal interpretations out there and talk about this and there are multiple other places as well and preambles to regulatory promulgation in the federal register. That say this so it was a surprise to us all to have this court decision. Come out it was not about flight. Instruction in general but they were asked to review an emergency order to cease and desist. The court's decision was no. We declined to review it but then they went on and said a few things about flight instruction which none of us expected. And that's what's raised some of the questions. Okay so as. I understand it in the past neither of the student nor the fire was considered to be a passenger during flight instruction. So is that why flight instruction hasn't been considered a commercial operation or common carriage guarantee. You wanna take this one. I know it's a cold that you get frequently in the legal services plan. Yeah absolutely so a few things about this case. As just mentioned you know one of the important takeaways is that this case did not impact one of the regulations which is fourteen sia for one nineteen point one that talks about the types of operations that require an air carrier certificate that rule has always had an exclusion for flight instruction or student instruction and this case has not changed that but as just mentioned after they decided the immediate issue this season desist order. They provided some commentary on the specific rule at issue. This ninety one three fifteen that concerns these limited category aircraft and this specific rule uses basically the word persons instead of passengers. And so like you mentioned. Even though in the traditional flight instructor and students scenario neither of those individuals would be considered passenger here. This rule is using the word person which is why the court said that the operation which was prohibited so i guess instruction is kind of been caught up in this inadvertently villas a little bit about the history of the case. How did this all get started. Sure so this is An interesting case because there was no particular accident associated with this operation. There was no incident associated with this operation. Rather it's something that the discovered is part of their surveillance of different types of operations and as the faa said in their briefs on the case their position was that the surveillance of warburg aircraft. He's limited category aircraft. Started shortly after the twenty nine fifteen upi seventeen crash and according to the faa as part of the surveillance They surveilled an air tour and on that tour was this particular. P forty warhawks aircraft curtis right beautiful airplanes of course and as any beautiful Airplane will it caught the attention of folks around including faa inspectors. Unfortunately and that soon led to those f. a. a. inspectors looking at the operation. What was going on. And it didn't take long for them to take the position that this operation in their opinion of violated this particular rule concerning limits category aircraft There was a lot of back and forth between the faa and the operator of this aircraft. A lot of formal communications with the attorneys. That were all part of this court. Hearing and the court case that the dc circuit heard Ultimately though Those conversations and letters exchanged basically result in the issuing a cease and desist order by dressing mentioned and the faa basically took the position that What was going on with prohibited and without an assurance from the operator that they were gonna stop making these flights they issued the order and then the operator had the unique ability to use a particular statute to appeal this season desist order directly to the dc circuit which is fairly because often times these very Not necessarily conflicts but Unique aviation cases are often heard by say. Ntsb administrative law or they. At least start at that level Or perhaps a dot administrative law judges. I hear however the case went directly to the dc circuit court of appeals kind of one level below the supreme court. If you will and so these judges that heard this case Although they often ear different types of federal administrative matters don't often see this type of faa case. Come before them well. I guess this was an emergency order. my understanding is that apparently the operator didn't stop providing flight instruction as soon as the inspectors told them that that was prohibited. Yes and that's exactly. Why if you look at the court opinion. The judges said the reason. We are declining their three reasons. Taken together they. We are declining to review this emergency order and they relate to the fact that the owner was told by an inspector that you should not be doing this without an exemption but continued and then they got a letter from the f. as chief counsel making it official that the f. as position was to give flight instruction in this limited category aircraft you need to have an exemption didn't apply for an exemption and advertised for a flight instruction in the p forty and so the f. said you were continuing after receiving two notices for from us and so we moved forward and emergency season desist order because you gave us no indication that you would stop doing what you're doing. Well that's fascinating so you're saying that essentially it's common to get exemptions to give training in these types of aircraft but the operator shows not to do that and that's what all this correct now. The operator did have some some reasonable arguments for why he believes in exemption wasn't needed but the fact is there are many exemptions that are out there and the court specifically said you could have gotten an exemption and you never revived for one. Okay so i guess it pays to listen when the faa suggest you do something yes but just because they suggested doesn't mean that that is a requirement that that's the law but when you disagree with the faa you ultimately have to have somebody be of final determinant of what you can and can't do and in this case it was the dc circuit court of appeals. And unfortunately they didn't come out with the answer. That airman was hoping for well. It sounds like in some way. They didn't come out the answer that the faa was hoping for the faa perhaps been happier if they had just denied to review it but hadn't added these extra comments that they made about flight instruction. I think it would be a lot simpler if that's what had happened and we were at first optimistic. Seeing it was a two page opinion. Because you can't have that much extra language and if you paint opinion but unfortunately there were a couple of sentences in there that that didn't catch her retention of caused some concern and ended up with the f. Eight you ask what does this. Impact flight instruction in general or does it or how does it. Impact flight instruction in limited category. How does it impact flight instruction in other categories of aircrafts and we're waiting to get those clarifications. So what are the possible outcomes. I mean it sounds like it's kind of a a naughty situation that the faa now has to kind of figure out how to undo this. Gordon not what are the possible outcomes. While i do think it's important to note first of all the definite outcome and that is that if you are the owner operator of limited category aircraft and you want to receive flight instruction in that aircraft. Then you're going to need an exemption from the because that's something that this decision makes very clear so likewise if you're a flight instructor who provides flight instruction in these type of limited category aircraft then again you're going to need to make sure there's an exemption that permits you to do that. That's the immediate and definite result of this decision when we talk about the potential ramifications. These are possibilities but haven't happened yet so just the. I know that you're familiar with some of the potential consequences here so some of the potential consequences. When we look at flight instruction being characterized if it is Which is unclear. But if flight instruction is deemed to be carrying persons for compensation or higher when you get paid and let's remember the faa when it in his legal interpretations when you say what is compensation they say it can be. Just about anything doesn't have to be money it can be good-will can be the cruel of ours so just because somebody is not paying money doesn't mean that the faa may not take the position of compensation is involved. Which is why. I think is wise rejected to say if you are receiving providing instruction in limited category aircraft. Make sure that there's an exemption in place but for the bigger picture if providing instruction in getting compensation for it is getting compensated for carrying people that does raise some real issues that raise issues because number one right now. You don't have to have a second class medical to be a flight instructor. Could that be different. Maybe if if flight instruction is deemed to be carrying a person's for higher than it also raises questions in some of the other categories of aircraft. Because there's similar language in other categories of aircraft that talk about persons and not just passengers and carriage of persons. And what you can and can't do those categories of aircraft so what happened is by focusing on outward persons and then by putting in some language around flight instruction and the characterization of that in the court's opinion it has raised questions under a whole variety of other similarly-worded regulations. So in the worst case. I guess for commercial type operations. The operator has to have a certificate in the worst case. What does that saying about flight. Instructors what type of certificate could they theoretically need. We're going back to what jared said. Remember you don't need an air carrier certificate to give instruction there's a specific exemption in one nineteen point one but the question i think is more of what type of medical certificate could be required for the instructors here and in what categories. What hoops do you need to jump through you. Be allowed to provide instruction in a certain category of aircraft so as with experimental. 's you need a lotta if the aircraft is not owned by the student in limited category aircraft This case indicates right. Now unless the faa issues a clarification anybody that gets instruction in a limited category aircraft even if they don't that aircraft need to have an exemption place. What would the rules fee for standard category aircraft but when the roles be for other categories of aircraft. That's where the questions raised okay. So you're saying it's unlikely. I need to go out and get a part. One thirty five certificate give flight instruction in the future cracked. Okay absolutely couldn't agree more. And i'll tell you we've gotten a lot of calls from flight school owners structures across the country asking that very question. Do i need to stop what i'm doing now and go out and try to get a one thirty five certificate and by the way for those folks that have been through that process if you plot for one thirty five certificate. Hurry up and wait. 'cause it's not going to happen anytime soon But the answer of course here is that no. It's not required now. This court decision did not stand to mean that you need to go out and get that one thirty five to the typical fly instruction we talk about okay so it sounds like in the worst case. You're saying the biggest ramification might be flight. Instructors might be required if second-class medicals. Actually i don't think it's going in that direction and and if the faa tried to take it in that direction i would tell you they will have a big fight on their hands from a variety of places in in the community including from from from our association the faa. I think this is the role of unintended consequences. With broad language issued by judges who don't deal in aviation language every day. So max one of the interesting things is this case. The opinion that decision was issued an unpublished opinion. And what that means is the judges themselves. Said we don't think we're setting any big precedent here. We don't think we're making any waves. We're just dating what we think is obvious. And therefore it's an unpublished opinion. And so the judges themselves didn't seem to appreciate the impact of the nuance of some of the language that they use. Because it's not the language they use on a daily basis. And so what's important to note here is the faa traditionally has not wanted to create a large and bureaucratic pathway to training. They know that training is the key to safety. And we all want to make sure that those pathways to excess training as often as you want or need it or wide. And they're open in their easy and we don't have a lot of hurdles training keita safety. And i think that's something bit that we can all agree on. Even the faa brought up experimental aircraft a moment ago and i think in general people are unable to provide flight instruction in flight school experimental aircraft if there were such a thing but i know that for example owners of experimental aircraft can get instruction in their own personal aircraft. Explain what the load is that. You referenced in how that can help people with instruction explore craft. Sure so i i actually Lying experimental aircraft and a lot of us when we get into an experimental aircraft. We already have make model time whether you're buying one or you're building but we know this really important to be able to fly one And to get that make and model time at crew. The skills in the airframe. You're going to be fly now. The faa says because of the experimental ager and every experimental is essentially a one of a particularly on the amateur built side. The faa says. We want to put in an extra layer protection. If you don't own the plane you're flying an important part for this is to understand that. The faa clearly delineates between getting paying for instruction in an experimental versus paying for the plane that you use during the extraction with experimental. But they have this load process and the letter of deviation authorities something you can get through your local physio so unlike with limited category where they're saying right now you need to apply for an exemption and that request goes to headquarters and has a quite a bit of process behind a getting a response to that. A lotta is a relatively efficient and local process for you to be able to use a third party plane for experimental trip and that would make a lot of sense fruit. A new builder who to get trained in type before they have their own aircraft finished. Are they allowed to pay rental for the use of aircraft in addition to paying someone to them flight instruction if they have a lotta correct. So that's the key to being able to accept compensation for use of the aircraft is having that load in place and so with limited aircraft limited category aircraft there are exemptions rate now and they are over three hundred limited category aircraft currently on the phase registry of but there are not that many exemptions. There's there's only a dozen or two dozen exemptions out so there's a big gap right now in the number of exemptions versus aircraft and so the faa has some options and can look at how it's handled some of the challenge with other categories of aircraft. If wants to consider something other than the exemption process to be able to deal with those who want to get training and they may look at it and say well the pathway. You need to use depends upon whether you own the plane. You're getting training in or or somebody else's applying the plate but again these are things of the fa is considered before for other categories And won't be taking a look at as we move forward to see. How do we make sure that everybody who flies or wants to fly limited category aircraft clear and easy pathway to that training whilst we start to wrap up here any other things that you'd like to mention about this particular case and its ramifications for flying instruction what i'd say is just reiterate richard said before this house immediate ramifications you're providing receiving flight instruction in a limited category aircraft beyond that it's unclear Alpa gamut jointly sent a letter the asking for clarifications we have not yet received feedback on that But we look forward to receiving ensuring that with everyone so in the absence of clarification on the broader issues. We are thinking through concerns. We are thinking through downstream potential consequences. But there's no need for immediate action until we have more clarity of what we're dealing with and it is very possible that the faa could come back and say we are not changing our position on the characterisation by training compensation. We've always said that. His compensation for the instruction and we're not changing our position on that so we really need more information from the faa before we can identify whether there are bigger concerns and how it needs to address those concerns. Okay well before we go take a moment and tell us a little bit about as legal services plan. Yeah absolutely max. And i'm glad you mentioned it because one of my final comments here was going to be that if you are a member of. Apa style protection services and have questions about this issue particularly. If you're flying instructor you don't wait until you've already made the flight to give us a call and ask hey. Was that legal. Or am i going to be a trouble costs before you make the flight. That's always a good idea. So for ao ks pile protection services which includes our our legal services plan It's something that's available only to members we got about three hundred thousand member so these days and about seventy thousand members have opted into our legal services plan and generally how it works. is that In exchange for your membership You have access to not just in house attorneys like myself. Who can provide some initial advice to help you understand regulatory requirements. It guides you through these types of Interesting legal issues that may pop up throughout your flying but should the worst happen and you find yourself faced with an faa legal enforcement action or you have an aircraft accident or incident. We will get you in touch with a local attorney and you're going to have a certain number of hours paid for by the legal services plan to help with your legal fees associated with that event so We see work time and time again. Where folks who otherwise would not have access to education attorney because they remember legal services plan are able to either get the advice they need or or bounded defense to faa enforcement action. So certainly. it's something we recommend for all of our members but we're always happy to talk about let addition to some of the defense work in the the other interesting thing that we do that everybody may not realize and it's been a very busy part lately as been purchase and sale transactions. So if you are buying or selling a plane or leasing a plane or leasing a hanger. We can help with that. That's one of our benefits so as you know it's a pretty hot market right now for aircraft purchases and sales so. I know that our phone has been ringing. More often than usual hoping people buy sell create partnerships. Create flying clubs and secure hangers. And and where would people go to find out more information about ao pa in your legal services programs. Aarp dot org pretty straightforward. Will jared justin. Thank you so much for spending time with us here today and thank you for all the great work that you and alpa do to help support generally vacation community. Thanks for all you do to help educate all of us max and for all the flying and instruction you do pleasure to be. Thanks for having us. And my thanks to both justin harrison and jared allen for joining us today to clarify that situation if you wanna learn more about ao pa and their legal services program just to ao pa dot org. I heard just a couple of updates wanna mention something nice. That happened a few months ago. I am holding a very nice heavy glass award that was given out by cirrus aircraft earlier. This year they have a Serious safety award that they give out to one person in the entire world and guess what what has by name on it. It says a serious approach safety award twenty twenty. I know last year that it was given out to collectively all the instructors in the c- triple p. program that's a series pilot proficiency program which is taught by instructors through Copa the circus owner pilots association. I'll go ahead include a picture of this in the chapter markers but i wanna. Thanks very much for this award. And by the way when they gave this to me they cited this podcast in particular and the millions of downloads. That it's had in its contribution to safety around the world for pilots not just flying cirrus aircraft but to all aircraft. So anyway this is a very meaningful to me and Actually got pictures of my my favorite to airplanes on their its engraved the vision jet in the twenty two speaking of the vision jet. I was out flying in one today. Great fun brand. New airplane at san jose that had all of twenty hours on it. It just came out from the factory but need to get relocated to the owners home airport and it was At san jose because that's where they dropped off the instructor pilot who came out with the owner from the factory. And so i got to move it out to the central valley short flight but Quite fun the aircraft is just beautiful and it still has that new airplanes smell inside which really made it special as well Nice flight out of san jose. They asked me if i wanted to take off their section delta which i think leaves you with seven thousand feet. Now take the full length. I just like to use full length whenever i can if you think about it this way if you had some kind of issue after you got in the air and we're still at low altitude if you still have a few extra thousand feet of runway you might be able to put it back down on the ground and if that were to happen after i had run out of runway because i took intersection delta. Well that would be kinda sad. So i use the fooling the runway. Just build that little extra margin and safety into that take off so that was great fun and i posted a very short video on my facebook. Page show showing what the view looks like from up there in the vision jet and it's beautiful class cockpit. And i mentioned a couple of weeks ago that i started adding chapter markers and photos to help you navigate the show so i thanks to patrons supporters stephen ilab larry. No we end albert. Who gave feedback saying yes. They liked them. I have feedback from someone else. Who said they're not that big a deal. Which i think is probably true that i looked at my phone and i found that Get after a few seconds listing. The screen goes dark. And you don't even see the photos or the chapter markers So i mentioned. I include them so the time. But don't count on all the time by the way josh in illinois corrected me. He said that the overcast app. At least on does support chapters and the photos that i uploaded and he is absolutely correct on that. I found that when i was in the overcast app. I was just on the wrong screen. But if i swiped i could then find the photos that uploaded and perhaps a month ago i mentioned a show coming up on nova which was postponed But it's not going to be out later this week. It's called the great electric airplane race. It's on npr on the nova program with miles. O'brien and it's not about a race. I thought that's what it was instead. It says they look at an array of promising new electric airplanes. And they take you for right in some impressive prototypes. That are already in the air. So it's not a race like a traditional race but it's just all about electric aircraft and how they're doing so It's going to air on. Wednesday may twenty six or check your local. Pbs station by the way. There was an earlier episode just a few days ago on. Nove called hindenburg. The new evidence and fascinating. They look at it. A new piece of film on the hindenburg. There was taken from a different angle than all the previous footage that people have seen and they did a number of experiments in which they built mockups of the construction of the outer airbag wrapped around You know the airframe and in the testing they believe that came up with the answer to the eighty year. Old question of where that spark came from that ignited the hydrogen causing the disaster. The answer is at once. They dropped those ropes to the ground. The hindenburg became essentially a huge capacitors storing electrical charges because it was raining and there was a lightning in the area and because of the construction there were little tiny sparks created all throughout the entire superstructure and one of those sparks unfortunately happened in the near a leak in the hydrogen. So that's a fascinating episode. You may want to check it out. Check your local listings for pbs on wednesday. May the twenty six. And here's a quick email. I got from eric earhart. Who's a phd. He says maxed episode one. Eighty one you mentioned. Alpa's april see green challenge which was about landing at the airports with grass runways. He said that. I've computed the shortest tour of all airports with a mistake by solving the travelling salesman problem. Which of course is a classic problem of how somebody could have the minimum distance to travel to a number of different cities. He's figured out how to do that for all airports for each state he says i have subsets for paved runways and grass dirt strips. I've included maps tables and even km l. files to read into google earth to plan your route. This is an approximation to the quickest way to get the most grass strip check kids and he gives a web address here that you can go to go to a tiny you are l. dot com slash pilot hyphen s. p. And i'll take you to a really fascinating map of all these little paths that assurance routes around each state visit in your state. And if you end up doing that lepe now. We'll talk about it here on the show and eric says he's a member of the cooperative crossroads flying club the oldest wine club in new mexico. Eric thanks for sending that. And here's a little inside baseball. Before i started doing this podcast. I had no idea how much time it would take a good thing. I didn't know. Because if i had known frankly i probably wouldn't have started it. It's probably about twenty hours a week which you can think of as basically half a workweek so that's time when i can't be out to teaching which is my main way to make a living so i am highly appreciative to everyone who takes just a couple minutes out of their time to send a little. Thank you for doing the show by signing up to support the show financial either through patriotic or pay pal. So let me mention people who have signed up in the last two weeks to support the show. Several people who have signed up at the twenty dollars a month level. They include mallory fuller salvatori sadate andrew. Hayek and steve bloom and jamie gamble Prior supporters edited their pledges up to twenty dollars a month. Thanks so much that means they now have access to all of the bonus videos that i've posted through a patriot. Other new supporters include timothy. Gentleman zachary israel and greg kevin and a sign of a patriot. Just go out to aviation newstalk dot com slash awesome l. Take you just a couple minutes to select to support level into enter your credit card. We also have several one time donations. And if you'd like to make just a one time donation that's an easy thing to do. Go out to aviation news talk dot com slash pal. Think about how much you might pay for an hour flight. Instruction you might consider a sending that along as a monthly donation and we have some one time donations from dirk frothiness. One hundred dollars. Mahesh saint karen one hundred dollars. Mike blade fifty dollars rebecca salsbury and anthony pit. Thank you so much for all of your donations. And of course we have our mega supporters who donate fifty dollars a month up. They get a free book from after two months. They include brian deer. Who recently moved to the houston texas area. He has a turbo two six matsuda. Who's a computer engineer. Who worked for embraer in brazil now in chicago and a student pilot flying a one fifty two out of chicago executive airport tyson weiss co founder and ceo of four flight which is a popular efg app purse dickerson. He's a financial planner living in georgia and he flies a kc thirty-five dave rochet. He recently retired from the navy and just working on his instrument rating and the turkey. One forty the navy flying club in jacksonville. Kent moskva white misty on a two thousand seven series at the alpine air park in wyoming and have a passion for helping others by flying volunteer missions for angel. Flight victor vocal. He's a doc in central. Pa flies a cirrus. Tim delaney wealth manager in eagle. Idaho flies a turbo. Sr twenty two nd of napa. Stephen ila who by the way appears on the cover of my brand new g. Three thousand and g five thousand glass cockpit handbook. He flies a turbo one. Eighty to a citation. Cj three plus. He's the ceo of api jet. Mike williams he's the president of tcp composites. They composites spinners and bulkheads for g aircraft. And he flies a one. Seventy two seth like. He's a dp giving check rides. And he specializes in teaching the multi engine rating. So if you're interested in getting your multi engine rating and can travel to arkansas checkout vs l. dot. Aero rick miller instructs in the cincinnati area both out of the lumpkin flight training center and with private owners of piper processes beechcraft and scotus love to teach fulltime but still has that day job just in winters he brokers real estate on lake chio in south carolina and flies in sr twenty two carlin an rossi of maine coon cat aviation. They've got a pair of cessna t to forties and a piper m three fifty on order. Johnny mcdaid he's a singer songwriter. Musician and record producer. Jim goldfarb's flying out of the public airport on long island. He's training for his. Cfi and meanwhile as teaching as a ground instructor at the pilot proficiency international he can also be reached on his facebook page of ground. Point nine if you'd like to get individual instruction online vincent salimi vice mayor for the city of panel. He's the owner of cellini. Construction management in san francisco and president of the concord flying club the oldest continually operating club west of the mississippi. Jim hop he's a cfi teaches advantage aviation at the palo. Alto airport joseph if she hand flew in the navy for eight years now has a few hundred hours in his new vision. Jet josie freeman. He's working on his instrument rating dylan caldwell. He's an ame. he gets medical exam. So if you're looking for your basic med second or third class like physical and you are. Near naples florida you can contact them at aviation tours clinic dot com william birch donates to the show in the memory of his son. Lieutenant j g wall speech was a naval aviator don hak-lae with professional instrument courses. They conduct ten-day instrument courses. I if our finish up an afar refresher courses check them out at. I fly i. F r dot com don dilmun. He's a professional pilot. Who runs an airline flight department. He's also csi. and flies. A bonanza rick. Madison owner of point wise which makes cfd simulation software used by aerospace companies. You can find them at point. Wise dot com. John postel lives in flint michigan. And he rents some of the planes at the greater flint pilots association. He also cohen's turkey six. That's been updated with garmin g three x. Gts six fifty vic by joshua just flew again with recently lives here in the san francisco bay area and flies a cirrus mark holes bach. He lives in south western. Pa he's a longtime aviation enthusiast. Wants to get his private when he retires. In a few years he runs biden. Still dot com which manufacturers industrial fasteners. Tim crawford he flies the. Da forty out of crosswinds at the oakland county airport. North of detroit. He runs a company called brain spring. That helps kids with dyslexia greg van. He's a senior ame at the mayo clinic in rochester new york any host. The mayo clinic clear approach podcast which discusses medical issues for pilots james. Kerr he's thinking about buying an s are twenty two for business travel. His company makes security screens for protecting your home and you can find out more at home. Security screens dot com a real english. Ucf double. I chester flying club in westchester county. Airport new york in a friend of created a website to make free flight. Planning modern and fast. The site is called flyway. And you can check it out at flyweight dot c ed kelly flies a saratoga out of mount pleasant south carolina and says his two year old son bennett is the best co-pilot he could have. Jeff brown is one of our supporters. Michael ron he runs a small wealth management firm and woodland texas and you can find them at the some planning dot com. And he's thinking about buying a serious todd cuss he lives in arizona and flies in sr twenty two increase carnahan. Who's president of boone valley forest products and flies. Veto bonanza out of spirit airport in saint. Louis thanks to everyone who contributes to the show in whatever way you do and if you love the show and you'd like to sport us other ways well you can head on out to your podcast app and believe a five star review. You can also tell your friends about the show and encourage them to sign up to either follow or subscribe to the podcast so until next time flies safely have fun and keep the blue side up.
NPR News: 04-09-2020 3AM ET
"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Johnston the US financial community as new jobless report to digest this morning in it will probably call for an acids. The latest report said about ten million Americans had applied for unemployment insurance the largest number ever on record but those numbers were based on the leading edge of business closures and stay at home orders. Today's report due at eight thirty eastern time is expected to be even higher estates clear-out backlogs of applications as the Kovic Nineteen pandemic persists more companies furlough or layoff. Employees is cash reserves. Run out the United States continues to lead the world in the number of confirmed corona virus infections with more than four hundred thirty thousand cases in New York. More than six thousand people are dead. Npr's QUIL governor. Andrew Cuomo praised the efforts of New Yorkers to flatten the curve. Which he says has meant a continued reduction in people being hospitalized with the virus but he grimaced as he reported a new record death toll in one day. Seven hundred seventy nine people. Many of them admitted to the hospital days or weeks ago. Every number is a face right Many of them frontline workers many of them healthcare workers and they were putting themselves at risk and they knew they were cuomo ordered. State health officials to start looking into why more Latinos and blacks were dying from the disease. He also said that. All New Yorkers will be allowed to vote by mail in the state's primary elections this June quil Lawrence. Npr news worried pregnant. Women aren't going to the doctor to avoid Cova. Nineteen presidential pandemic. Dr Deborah Brooks says. They should go. They have put amazing things in place to protect every pregnant woman. They have been social distancing in their offices. They have increased all of the disinfecting. They have lengthened. The time between Clients Burke says the consensus is if your original plans included hospital labor and delivery. You should not change them. Virginia man went to court to challenge the stay at home order from Democratic governor. Ralph Northam Whitney Evans reports for member station. Vpn The lawsuit claims. The governor's executive order violates the Virginia Constitution and that it should be up to religious groups to decide for themselves. How many prisoners should be allowed to gather shea? Cook is an attorney for Larry. Hughes the man who filed the lawsuit he says while businesses like liquor stores and vape shops have to limit customers to ten. The executive order doesn't restrict the number of employees who can be present this year. Make an exception for those types of activities why not make exception for an activity specifically mentioned and protected in the Virginia Constitution and court hearing in this case is expected to take place Thursday by phone for NPR news. I'm Whitney Evans in Richmond and this is NPR news from Washington Independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders dropped out of the Democratic Race for president Wednesday Sanders still had a mathematical chance to defeat Joe Biden but his withdrawal means. The Democratic Party may now work on reunification British prime minister. Boris Johnson is doing better in intensive care according to government spokespeople from London. Npr's Frank Langfitt at the government's daily press conference Rasheed Sue neck the UK's treasury secretary tried to reassure Britain's the johnsons on the meant. The prime minister remains in intensive care what his condition is improving. I can also tell you that he has been sitting up in bed and engaging positively with the clinical team Johnson was diagnosed with covert nineteen late last month and went into intensive care on Monday. I see you doctors in London told. Npr that based on the facts as presented so far by the government. They were optimistic. Johnson would recover meanwhile. Uk hit another record in daily deaths. Nine hundred thirty eight as of Tuesday afternoon which brings the national total to nearly seventy one hundred Frank Langfitt. Npr news according to reports in Seattle Media The Washington State Patrol says it restored order at the Monroe. Correctional Complex a quote major disturbance broke out last night over inmate fears of the new corona virus according to the reports a handful of isolated prisoners. Have the virus. It's unclear how large the disturbance was but dozens of inmates may have taken part. We also know if there was damage or casualties. I'm Johnston NPR news from Washington.
NPR News: 04-09-2020 1AM ET
"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Johnston the world. Health or strongly defends its role in the corona virus outbreak after criticism from President trump the. Who says it's working around the clock to fight the global pandemic NPR's Jason Bogan after president trump lashed out at the W. H. O. Director General Adnan Gabe. Races Cities Agency has been working tirelessly to provide technical guidance research in logistical support to countries around the world trump. On Tuesday threatened to cut off funding to the. Who saying the. Who's response to? The outbreak was slow in China centric. Tatum said personal attacks. Don't bother him an added that throughout this crisis he's been subject to racist slurs and even death threats he said what is important right. Now is the nation's come together to fight this pandemic. You need to use the only option to defeat this virus if you don't believe in unity and don't do unity police. Prepare for the worst to come. Jason bobbie-ann NPR news the GARONA virus death toll spiked for a second straight day. In New York officials. Say the number of debt is over six thousand with another. Nearly one hundred fifty thousand confirmed cases across the state. There is room for optimism. New York officials say the curve of the infection rate appears to be flattening reporter. Charles Lane from member station W. S. H. U. Governor Andrew. Cuomo says that his worry now is that people will become complacent ignore social distancing orders and cause more infections he says normalcy can't return until the infection rate comes down. Cuomo also acknowledged that minorities have been disproportionately impacted by the virus and suggested an unknown underlying societal cause they live in more dense communities more urban environments. But what isn't and let's learn from that and let's do it now. Cuomo says more testing will be done in minority communities. When asked if he were grocery stores and delivery services should be open in order to reduce exposure to minorities he said no they should remain open for NPR news. I'm Charles Lane in New York. The circumstances surrounding the death of Zimbabwe's second Cova nineteen patient raising questions about the country's readiness to deal with the pandemic in Harari reporter Ish Mufti. Their doctors want an explanation and an audit of the government's capacity to deal with the pandemic according to the government's daily pandemic update. The positive results out of the deceased was only confirmed after his death despite showing copied nineteen symptoms. It took almost two weeks for him to be admitted to a normal ward. And then to. I see you when his condition worsened. The government has on numerous occasions. Said it is ready to deal with the pan-demic this is NPR news. There are reports coming from Seattle of a major disturbance involving hundreds of jail prisoners. The reports say the Washington state patrol has called for reinforcements to restore order at the Monroe Correctional Complex. The reports say a handful of prisoners have the novel. Corona virus and others aren't isolation making other inmates nervous newly published meeting notes. Say That when chairman. Joe Jerome Powell and the Federal Reserve Board of Governors took emergency action in mid March. They hoped to contain the covert nineteen fallout fed officials remained very worried reporter. Steve Bucknor in the minds of Fed officials. The Economic Outlook had already deteriorated sharply and become profoundly uncertain they slash interest rates near zero and Linda aggressively firms and households. Financial markets have stabilized but not the economy Chicago Federal Reserve. Bank President Charles Evans now predict very large losses of jobs and output. He's guarded about the outlook. Health situation allowing the economy can begin to recover in the second half but there are many caveats in this hopeful story. Line and many many things must go right. In order to minimize the Economic Evans says the key to recovery is giving people enough financial support until they're able to get back to work for NPR news. I'm Steve Wagner and the Justice Department says is hit two people with terrorism charges for allegedly trying to spread the new corona virus. The charges evolve cases in Florida in Texas. I'm Johnston NPR news in Washington.
Taking care of the mentals
"Hey quick favor to ask if Seattle now is helped you stay informed and connected to your community during this pandemic. Why not tell some friends about us? We love you early listeners, but we also want new people to join us, so think of two people you think might like the show and share it with them. Send them a link to an episode. You think they might like. Thank you for listening and for taking the time to Sharon episode with a friend. Hey, it's Patricia. Murphy this Seattle now. Twenty, twenty has been a brutal year, and we're all feeling it the pandemic the economy. By the time. George Floyd was killed by police. So many people were already weary. Especially in the black community in a minute, we're gonNA talk with therapist. Roy Fisher about the mental toll of the racism that were all seen now, but first. Let's get you caught up. It's the end of chop early Wednesday Mayor Dirk signed an executive order and had the area cleared. Police made more than forty arrests. City crews cleared barricades, tents, and graffiti and the Seattle. PD started moving back into the east precinct. Everybody from the mayor to the police chief to the protesters who embedded for more than three weeks say it's not the end of the conversation about changing policing an undoing racism. Still, two men nineteen year old Horace Lorenzo Anderson and sixteen year, old Antonio Meze, junior were shot and killed in separate incidents at the chop, and so far there have been no arrests. In other news. Seattle is a step away from a new tax on businesses on Wednesday. The council advanced a plan that would tax the highest paid employees at the city's largest employers. It would raise about two hundred fifteen million dollars a year. That's roughly four times as much as the thousand eighteen head tax that was passed, and then repealed by the council after pushback from the city's businesses, the council could make it official on. Monday a representative for mayor. Durkan tells the Seattle Times. The mayor doesn't think the council should rush it and would rather see a payroll tax at the county for the state level. And the number of people living without homes is still growing in Seattle and King County the latest count released yesterday revealed a five percent increase in the number of people living homeless. That's about eleven thousand seven hundred people in County. Here's an interesting data point from the survey, veteran and youth. Homelessness appears to be declining. George, Lloyd's killing brought out a lot of emotions for people fear anger frustration, and it triggered bigger anxiety issues even PTSD. For White people these experiences may be new, but in the black community let people live with these emotions and fears every day. And that can have a big impact on Mental Health Roy Fisher knows that firsthand. He's Tukwila based therapist, and he also has a complicated relationship with the police. His father was one of the first black officers in the Washington state patrol. Joining us today. So there is a lot of awareness around mental health, and you know in more recent years. There's much more awareness around mental health, but they're still a stigma. Are there specific challenges that are unique to black people when it comes to mental health. Mental Health, as a listen over archie disorder. Right I think it's everybody shares, human condition, experiences, constraints and difficulties that will call mental health issues. I think within the black community. What you'll find is more of the stigma towards reaching out for services. You got a piece of the struggle. As well as just an ongoing sense of of read about what might happen in my life, so we have certain things within the DSM's of the diagnostic statistical manual right, it's Mental Health Bible that says here and the things that you should look for that says that this is a mental health issues as depression anxiety, but it doesn't really consider the racial is experience that black folks have the ongoing trauma. The ongoing a worry about what's GonNa Happen to you the ongoing concern about your kids and the wheat of that is really challenging, so I think that was the difference between say folks, Dominant Culture and Black folks experiences mental. Your father was a police officer, and growing up I. Wonder What your view of the police was. Loved the Police Officers Irbid, should dad and you get to see the the badge uniform and the the gun in the handcuffs right as a little kid? That's that's all that's all. There is where you wanted to be a police officer. You WanNa be a firefighter. And I had one that I got to wake up with every day. so there was tremendous pride in that and many of his friends were police officers. SEATTLE PD King County PD. So I spent a lot of time in my early years around police officer so just enor-. So there's this a lot pride associated with that. So! Your Dad's a cop. You have this view of the police. They're your heroes, right? This is the coolest job. But at the same time. You're growing up in a world of structural racism. At some point, you're confronted with this. Tell me about how your worldview began to be shaped by the rest of the world. Yeah. It was really as I got mobile. Got My driver's license. I've played basketball in high school, and so travel around to different areas I remember getting followed was on Mercer Island. Getting getting off the exit. Crest way and either have been. Trying to find high school, and why is this police officer finding me and I know I'm looking a little crazy driving around. Like a seventy eight you. Nasty, looking Mustang. Car that does not belong your car. Exactly. and. You know everybody gets a little nervous when the police behind them. and. I was okay. The first time is made sense of the new person here a, but it's like. Time to Mercer Island had this experience a married the first time I got pulled over by police officer and the questions of. Were you going? Why you in this neighborhood like she just asked me for my I D in my insurance is like why why are these other questions and that's when I started to wonder and talk to my dad. He and already give me the conversation about. Get pulled over. Keep your hands where they can see them those kinds of things. I knew all of that. But when it finally happens to you, then it becomes that it's real. It's not just a story. It is okay this is what things are going to be like. Sixteen on. That's kind of when I started to look at the police. And I read an article that you wrote for the South Seattle Emerald and you described that as a real like a fear, a fear that you carry today even at fifty. Fifty one years still. To say I fifty watch. That Yeah I I still were drive by police officers again I. I have no. Reason to necessarily fear the police right again. I haven't I've lived above board and life. I've never been arrested. My taxes, I do all the things that say you are a good person, right? I have a master's degree. There's just a lot of things. Check boxes that say that I should not be fearful. Yet the box I do check of black male is now than those other ones, so when I see police police officer I wonder. How are they going to see me? Right I'm six eight I have dreadlocks. I. Don't look like how you and assume a therapist luck. We come to that interaction with our shores, and unfortunately the stories tends to end with somebody living Mike me. And that that is where the anxiety comes from. Officers, And those stories we have actual video evidence of those interactions that end in a black person dead. The video of George Floyd is just the latest example, yes. I've stopped watching them. I know the I know the ending, so it brings up too much in mix hard for me to do my work because it is, it's nonstop. So again! That's ongoing trauma that we don't necessarily have a mental health diagnosis for. But I know what's real. I hear from the people that I work with right. I as a therapist I wonder. Where is the place for those videos right now? You. Know we need. To witness on some levels. What's happening? Is there room for both? I interesting. I don't think black folks need to see the videos short. Our history like me know those stories we can go back and until we know the stories of black death. White folks needs e white. Folks need to be reminded as of the country we live in. White folks need to know that while this isn't every day this happens, but it happens consistently that it's happened generation only. And this is our generation's opportunity to do something different. It's not new so white folks need to continue to see into experience. What again black folks. Always, know. How do you advise your clients to cope with the realities of this nonstop trauma? Yeah so I think about things. Where can need ground ourselves? We're our safe places, right? We have to have a place that we are able to re charge that we are able to. Experience these traumas out in the world, and then come back to a place. Where like? I know I'm safe here. I know there are people here that love me I. Know People here the cure for me, so that I'm able to go back out to the world. So really trying to explore where those places where those people. sometimes if our homes aren't safe places, sometimes just a place in our mind that we're able to ago, but we have to have a refuge from all of the pain in order for us. Get to go out and try to be successful in the world. Yeah, I'm just happy that we're having the conversation, right? It's the. These are the conversations that have been had in black communities black homes. Forever and I'm just glad that why folks are finally getting on orders. Pardon me and it's like what took you so long. Even dealing with this for a while welcome to the party. What are we going to do? But in terms of anything additions acknowledges. Keep going because the fear is. As history tends to tell us is once, the movement is passed that it's done. Right. And then we know that there we can suspect that there is a significant backlash coming towards US Again that's what history as told us so can we find ways to push through that for some lasted? A pleasure talking with you right Fisher. Thank you very much for your insight. Seattle now is produced by Clare mcgrane, Caroline Chamberlain Gomez and Jason. Matt. Jorgensen does our music. I'm Patricia Murphy. See You tomorrow.
"The entrepreneurial spirit is resilient and us bank is here to make sure that no matter what unknown pops up business owners know that we have their back because problem solvers are the ones that keep us all moving forward by finding ways to close gaps even when distances are being kept everywhere so whatever you need to adapt and evolve your business u. s. bank is here to support you u. s. bank. We'll get there together. Equal housing lender member. Fdic the draft in tavern could be seen as drive by some with its data decor but to locals in the seaside town of bremerton net. Dive bar was like the tied with folks. Drifting in drifting out it had been that way since the nineteen fifties and over the years it grew to be more than just a bar. It was a communal watering hole. A place of sustenance for the soul. A place to be accepted where the bartender didn't judge and wasn't stingy with the poor and in the early nineties for fifty. Seven year old maryland. Hickey that was exactly what she was looking for. A place where everyone knew her name and so it was that september night in nineteen ninety. Two this diversion of cheers welcomed maryland. Or the elvis lady. As she was called. I can imagine suspicious minds playing on the jukebox and at five foot tall shooting shit and she played pool her outgoing personality and trusting nature drawing people to her. If only she'd been just a little bit more suspicious that night as she started talking to a young man a stranger that folks later would recall seeing but nobody knew his name. After last call maryland and the young man with that collar length. Reddish brown hair stumbled out of the drift in together and got in a cab. They drove for just over a mile before they were dropped. Off at maryland's apartment. It would be the last time maryland was seen alive found. Her did on the living room floor with a pair of scissors shoved through her heart and she had been strangled to death. The only clue they had was the sketch of that stranger. Who seemed to disappear without a trace until new technology revved up a case that had gone ice cold a dna profile found at the scene of the crime matched dna from the scene of another murder. Cheryl bear was found stabbed sexually assaulted and slashed to death. After almost thirty years would too cold case. Detectives finally get some for not only maryland but cheryl van both of them die right after or during the fact that both of them an ended up with have. I'm caroline massaro with kim shepard and this is the scene of the crime. I love a good dive bar caroline. I think it every town i've lived in. I've found some hole in the wall place and they're all so unique. Like what are the dive bars. I really liked was really popular with the biker crowd. Not like hell's angels but like the retired guys who decided to get a little crazy by a hog and wildfires. Have you seen the house. I live out their life. Long biker dream that was in arizona. Another dive bar that i really loved was in denver and it was actually a drag bar with a tiny little stage in the corner but it had a super cool rat pack vibe with the best jukebox on the planet. And right now. There's a super cool bar. That's not too far from me. That has a pool table friday night karaoke but also this really big outdoor space. That's great for playing lawn games and having a bonfire. I can tell like is getting to you here like you've ever been to since you were like twenty one. Oh man. I love me a good dad i do too. I mean they each have their own personalities but one thing i think they all have in common is aside from the liquor can show up as you are. You'd be totally authentic yourself and the regulars love you for that but on the flip side of that is the fact that these are also the places that attract people who are new to town or drifting through who might not have any local ties and who might have something sinister on their mind goes to show like detective work can be so like yeah. There's people driven and drifted out. It could be somebody that you know you know and it could be somebody who just happened to be there and is now gone and so this dive bar really had a special place in the community. I could just picture maryland going there and just really finding people and really you know. She lived about a mile away. It was the location for her to hang out. She'd love gin rummy and she could walk home and she had a rough night and i think that dive bars really get a bad rap but i think that everybody has a story from a dive bar so i really wanted to showcase that but this episode. I talked to our friend. Detective mardi garland you know. We are working with him on solving another cold case that we covered in our fallen angel episode. So it's the same cold case detective. Who just so passionate about these cases and this was a real win. And i don't want to scoot my own plot but you know it's really. I'm hoping that we can have the same success. And i say we loosely that they were able to figure out this cold case as in the fallen angels episode that we did but i will say cam. I really got into the weeds of this case. Not only interview on just this. I know the we do we all do i do. It was actually really pleasant trip my daughter and i. We took the ferry over from seattle to bremerton to pick up ten hours of this interrogation video. It was kind of a nice escape and bremerton is such a beautiful place. I've been there for a long time. And if you're not obviously in seattle that's how you get there you take a long fairy and basically it's just beautiful on the puget sound. It's amazing and it's amazing to me. How many people actually do live overrun bremerton and then work or frequently visit seattle. It's not like it's so separated that it's a completely separate community from seattle. There's a lot of crossover there will. And a few years ago. The city leaders in bremerton actually pushed to campaign targeting millennials to live and work in bremerton rebranding that hour-long ferry commute to seattle as relaxing and productive when compared to dealing with all of the traffic in seattle which during open haven't had to deal with but it's kind of slowly coming back is a nightmare. Way better i think about other cities in their mass transit. Like the metro or bart in california. Or you've got the new york subway system it all of those are so loud and crowded and the ferry really isn't it really is a pleasant experience in most of the time so old school. I don't think they've changed. Anything since i was like the the seventies when i would go there as a really little kid like you. Just get on. They've got it down you either. Go go have some irish stouter up cars. I mean it's it's like a little excursion it's a little fun trip that some people do every day. Yeah but in the early nineteen nineties. Bremerton was considered kind of more blue collar. The largest employer in the town is the navy with both a naval base and naval shipyard and talk about being a place where people can drift in and out without anyone knowing their name. I mean being a navy town remers and has more than its fair share of short term residents and folks drifting through. Yeah so the drift in was a bar that were is bar. It's still in existence is close to the ferry docks. it was a mile away from maryland's home and it was a big part of her community. As i said not just because they serve these stiff drinks. But it just has a great vibe and her last night in the fall of nineteen ninety-two people would see her. In conversation with this young man played pool and there was like a huge age difference. You know. I mean it's not like it's totally uncommon to see like a man in their twenties talking to a woman who was fifty seven. But you know she was huge regular there. I'm sure that it caught their attention that she knew she was talking to a younger guy. And when the bartender gave last call they remembered maryland leaving with this young man and maryland. Guest didn't drive so she took a cab home in the taxi. Driver remembers dropping her off with this mystery man at just a little bit after two in the morning and even though she lived alone maryland was the type of person to be out and about in the community and she was really plugged in with her neighbors when no one saw her. The next day you know friends began to worry. Not only did she have a medical condition that caused concerned but also because you know she was just the type of person to be extremely visible in her community and so when her apartment was like shuttered with no one in sight that really raised alarm bells. Officers were called to arisen because she hadn't been seen for a couple of days and she was real well known in. The neighborhood was seen often with her door open. Kind of saying hi difference as they went by so after two days and no maryland. Her friends called the police to do a welfare check on her when they got to her door. No one answered so they used a pocket knife to china the window to gain entry and they found maryland on the floor and she wasn't moving found her did on the living room floor with a pair of scissors show through her heart and she had been strangled to death and she had been the obviously sexually assaulted as well. So this case rocked the community on many levels in one thousand nine hundred eighty two. There just weren't a lot of murders in bremerton. And then the horrendous nature of this crime just fueled the fear and this is before dna although the detectives did a really good job of securing the scene collecting evidence and pounding the pavement talking to witnesses. The only real clue was this stranger. Who was he. The bartender helped them put together a sketch that was widely circulated but weren't able to find him. No one at that bar. That night knew his name and no one came forward to identify this stranger. Who was thought to be the last person to see. Maryland and those police sketches. I was looking up some information on them. Because i've always been curious about how accurate they really are. Well we've seen those newscasts words to circles for eyes and nose and like a you know a smile and it goes from that extreme to the other extreme of super detailed. yeah and sometimes they match perfectly with the who winds up being prosecuted and found guilty in sometimes they look like a completely different character and yet that is the person who perpetrated the crime so according to an article i was reading online. Police sketches are not known for being very accurate. There's something like between five and ten percent accuracy most of the time now so really low but what they can do. Is they help jog people's memories and if there's a particular like scar or two or certain kinds of hair something really specific about a person. They can that in the sketch so even though like most of the sketch might not really look like the person will have these really piercing blue eyes and they got that right. Even if there's just one part of the sketch that's correct. It can help jog people's memories and in fact. Timothy mcveigh was arrested because of a police sketch because he was pulled over on a traffic stop and the officer of the state trooper had seen the sketch and there was a connection. Made there and you know the timothy timothy mcveighs from the Oklahoma bombing right right and so. The police sketch played such a crucial role in that case. But there's so many times when they're just so inaccurate and it it could be because you know could be a new sketch artist. Who maybe just isn't that good at it but it can also be a lot a lot of times. What it really is. is the witnesses. When you're freaked out. You know your brain is not functioning at one hundred percent so victims. A lotta times. Can't give a really accurate description of the person who may have assaulted them or some other crime and even witnesses. you know. you're not looking at somebody thinking. I'm going to have to police schedule later. Let me catalog all the details of their face. I mean it's just not something that we typically pay that close of attention to but there might be like one detail like i noticed you caroline beautiful blue eyes so if i were to do a police sketch that might be the first thing i would say and i think it must have been extremely frustrating. That even though it's kind of small town a big town but it's a small town vibe that nobody knew his name. It's it's kinda surprising to me. And i think it could have let investigators or lead investigators down the thought process that. Hey maybe this is. Somebody who was just had drifted in and drifted out. There is a certain look to people who are in the navy right especially in the ninety s. I mean they were pretty serious about the tight high and tight haircuts. Kind of guy didn't say if he looked like that they might just assume he was with the navy and of course he's they hadn't seen him before because he's in an no he definitely had that was part of his reddish brown hair and it was kind of like long little bit on the longer side. Kind of feel like it was more kind of like a mullet. Kinda but i but i. I don't know if it was a malicious longer. So it definitely was not somebody that you would typically think in the navy longer hair so the case goes cold over a decade goes by but detectives hadn't forgotten about maryland's case and suddenly although it's counterintuitive to think about it time was on their side because the evidence in that case it had been meticulously collected and stored and four years later in two thousand six. Dna samples were resubmitted to the washington state patrol crime laboratory for testing this time because of how much dna had progressed they were able to get a full profile. And that would be so exciting to get that call. It's like a modern day. Sketch of the murders genetic profile. We get a cold case hit two. Dna that have been submitted by another detective at the time from the red kit. So we get a good saulat dna match and they put it into the full profile. Put it into kotas and it gets no hit grid. Dna sample full sample. But no it doesn't match anybody. So it just sits in rows around in rattles around rattles around in quotas for years to come. You know it's interesting because technology came so far that they were able to resubmit that dna and get a profile on it years later. There's actually a lot of movement right now in an effort to use dna to create police sketches rooms. See like what color is do. They have kind of hair did they. Have they have a strong jaw. Line did they. Not those are things you can see when you look at dna markers so that's something that is in the works and i wouldn't be surprised if we saw that. Start to be used before too long because they could tell what. What color is all of that. But in this case it had to have been so frustrating. 'cause like we've done cases before where they have a dna profile but it's not the perfect profile here. They have really strong. They know they just need to find this person. But here's where it gets interesting at least another decade later. Investigators learned that the killers dna had also turned up at a crime scene in boise idaho. It was linked to the murder of a woman named cheryl barrett about two thousand seventeen ish. I am assigned the case because kotas calls us up and says good news we got a hit and they send us the details on the hit in the hit is to another unsolved murder not to a person so now we've got two murders with the same full the a profile but neither matched to an actual human being because we don't know who that person is shaking right now. I'd be like celebrating. We gotta hit and then you look at it all and you have the you have a hit with two different crimes. To women brutally murdered in k. Yeah so detective. Garland is now working the case and he finds out that not only do both crime scenes have this dna profile but also similar murders. She was also stabbed and also strangled in fact her headed been nearly cutoff. She was nearly decapitated during the attack on her to nearly cut her head off. I think about the time and the strength and the anger and the rage tension that has to go into that. I mean that doesn't happen by who accidentally cut a little deeper than i thought. I mean that had to be a real attempt to make that happen is just the yeah. So you're dealing with somebody. Who's you know the rage that's inside this guy. What he he had plunged scissors into maryland chest. And there's going to be some other gruesome details that i was kind of on the fence as to whether or not to include them. But it's like it's part of the resolution of the case so anyway i asked to type of garland about what his thoughts were at this time in terms of profile you have two very similar cases you have dna but who is this suspect. Psychologically were thinking just like everybody else i think. Probably ninety percent of of law enforcement or non law enforcement. Would we've kind of put you into these. Categories are geist either dead or he's in prison for something else along those lines because we're thinking why would we have these cases that are now twenty plus years old and have grateful. Dna profiles and nobody to mess them to in all you think of this guy went on head of diamond committed other murders or did other things that we would eventually caught him in the intervening twenty years or we would least have other matches out there that we would be matching to if he led this spree of bodies across the us so is probably either adverse or he is Somebody who's been in jail for some other crime that he didn't have to have his dna taken from it if you're familiar with this but there are a couple of odd states out there where they don't take your dna until you're released from prison so you can go to prison for twenty five years and never have given your dna until the day you're released and then it gets matched to something. So those are kind of the odd cases that are i think colorado. Maybe it's one of those but so those are the kind of things that you think. Well maybe he falls into that category where he was convicted of some serious crime. In one of these states put into jail and now we're just waiting until at some point as the inane staking. Yeah i guess that would make sense. I mean if you've got them in jail they're not going anywhere they're not going to be committing any more crime until they get outs. That's when it would be really important to make sure you have their dna but then you can leave all these cases unsolved because somebody's in jail who you didn't take friday. I the pluses and minuses. To i i use of doing the. I don't think. I think they need to change that immediately. Because like think of all of the detectives that are working their butts off on these cold cases and it's like they're person could be imprisoned right now. It's a no brainer. why wouldn't you just get them into quotas. I just feel like it should be in there immediately. Yeah i i guess i look at the prison population and how large it is and we're kind of a task that would be what kind of expense that would be and i mean i don't know maybe it should happen but i i guess i can understand why there would be an argument that it shouldn't. I could see both sides of it. Yeah i mean. I hope so kim. Here's where the gumshoe detective work comes into play. I detective garland calls up detective. Monte iverson from the boise police department and they do what he calls a detective. Go fish when i was assigned to cold cases it was one of the cases that got assigned and the first thing i did was pick up the phone and call over to the detective in boise. Who now is different detective than had been working at at the time our other ed been working and his name is monty in and i got on the phone together and we decided you know what we know. That detective goldfish is already been done. But let's maybe there's been names added your case file or my case file. That are different that let's go through it and so we did that and we found that one of the names that had been originally sent over to him to have compared to their case. File the person who sent it over had reverted the name at put the middle name in place of the first name in vice versa. And so that's why they hadn't gotten a match and so when we did it. A second time went through those names one by one. We found one name that matched with their case file. And my case file. That's crazy you know no matter how good you are. Human error can lead to mistakes. That can have such huge consequences. I'm so glad that he decided to go back. And go through all those steps again even though they'd already been taken. Yeah i mean the whole fresh set of eyes. Let's look at everything. And now they have two cases to kind of compare and stare back and forth and as it turns out this. The name that was on the slip of paper wasn't maryland's purse shoot written down lee miller and his phone number. No notations about it. No reason for it to be there. No nothing in. It'd been photographed and catalogued but nothing had ever been done. As far as follow up on it. Nobody ever tried to figure out why his name was on a scrap of paper in her purse. Which i'm not gonna fault the detective for it because when you're going through a woman's purse you just never know what you're gonna find in little piece of scrap of paper with a name written on the bottom of the purse. Who has any idea that would have anything to do with her murder. I would find it. Surprising murderer would allow his name and phone number be written down by someone. He was planning to victimize well. I think you can't control everything when when you know. He did even know that it was in there. Will you had to give his name and phone photographs. How would she get it. Won't we'll have to lee. Miller wasn't a suspect in either case at the time but he was the only person that was in both of their case files. He was on that. Scrap of paper and maryland's purse and he was in the idaho case file. Because apparently a lee miller had bragged about the murder of cheryl. The reason that it came up in his case file was because this guy had gone to jail for something else in while he was in jail way back in the nineties. He had mentioned to his cellmate. they had started talking about. What's the worst thing you've done. What's the worst thing you've done. Do you think you could kill anybody. You know as as guys will do while they're in jail and he said well not only. Could i kill somebody. But i did kill somebody. And he proceeded to tell him about this murder that he committed in boise only months earlier while this cellmate then went and talked to a police officer about it in the police actually rigged up the cellmate with a recording device. And santa back in there to talk to this guy about it and he at this point says i don't know what talking about you must be making this up. I never said anything like that. You need to quit bother me. And obviously he was kind of onto it or realized that he had said too much the first round and so they dropped it way back in like ninety five two years after the their murder. They dropped it because they didn't have anything further to go on. This guy didn't have any other links to put him in the case file other than this celie who'd the admitted to it. Yeah i get that you want some some cell cred like we were talking about the last episode. Yeah but why wouldn't you just lie about murder. Say you did something you didn't really do but to go through and described something a crime that you have actually committed. Seems like a really stupid move. So i could see where the investigators might say. Will we don't know that he really did it. I mean he bragged about it. He said he did it but maybe he was just bragging about a he heard of to sound cool well and not only that but this is back in the nineties so they didn't have any dna profile. They didn't have the other lincoln. That other case of his name and another murdered woman's pocketbook and he denied it and we're dealing with the jailhouse inmate who you know they. They lie right. I mean so. We'll talk wire wasn't he or did they. Off the wire. He they were tickling the wire. No he didn't get it on the. Oh hold him. And then when the stool he had gone and said hey. I've got some information. And so they had him. I'll rigged up on the wire and then of course he didn't say anything. I don't have anything to do with the murder and so this was like. Yeah so maybe. He's smart enough to realize that this is odd. Why is he asking me about this again but you know what. Yeah but it's like. Why do they do this. I of course had a new. Marty wasn't gonna be able to like explain to me why they do this but i had to ask the question. Why would you confide. This is the hardest thing to figure out and it happens so incredibly often. I don't know. I heard one person talk about at one time. And it's like you know wouldn't be any fun if you won the lottery but you're the only person on earth and you couldn't tell anybody about it because you'd have all his money and no place to spend it all this clout in no place to tell anybody about it and it's almost like these guys feel like man. I literally got away with murder but if nobody ever knows about it. You know what's funny getting away with murder and so they feel like i gotta brag about it or a half to tell somebody to kind of get this cloudiness mystique to kind of revel in it. I understand what he's saying and he's probably right but it's so hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that like you commit this murder but what fun is if you can't tell anybody and yet it happens yeah So often and walk. I mean it's like why. I don't get it. So on top of that though mardi notices something else in his file a seemingly insignificant tip that when paired with a scrap of paper with a name and number and the knowledge that the name is also in that other murder case file similar to maryland's case becomes something brand new tip called in anonymously that said i know this guy named lee miller and he works at the mcdonald's in all and he knows a little bit too much about the murder. That happened in bremerton. And it's a anonymous tip that was phoned in and two for the life of me. I can't find any place where it'd ever been followed up on. And so i just sat there all these years. That's so sad. How so that came in beck nineteen ninety-two. Yeah a lot. I don't know if it was exactly ninety two but close. Yeah what. I happened because there was like tons of media attention. What is specific tiptoe for it not to be followed up on him and you got the guys full name and where he works. It'd be pretty easy to call the guy. Yeah you know. There's so many things going on and investigations that we can sit here and you know quarterback it but it's like who knows who knows but when we always talk about these types of cases these are the little tips that when you you don't see the whole puzzle but it's like they can go back and they're like oh wait a second. And that's what's so amazing about the evolution of a cold case and so they look up. Lee robert miller and find that he is now a fifty four year old man. Living in boise. Idaho miller would have been in his twenties at the time of maryland. Hickeys murder. So it's jiving up with the the young man that she was with so that jives with the sketch that they did and they found out that miller had lived in bremerton around the time of the nine hundred ninety two murder. So kim with no dna matches and kotas. You're in your detective armchair you just pulled that little side lever your foot stills kicked out. What do you think they do net. Oh man i'm thinking back to the many staff at case that we cover when they had a co worker sneak in and grab a cop killer had us yesterday to get his dna. We find out. Lee miller still living in boise idaho. And he's still alive and he's just doing his thing living his life in so they dispatch a group of guys to follow him around and sure enough. He discards a cigarette and repetition sample Sample still got the picture on my computer of the smoking cigarettes but on the on the sidewalk the detective took before he snatched it up. It's one of my favorite pictures. It shows how fresh it was. Because it's still smoldering before you even up. I think just just perfect. It's like the smoking gun absolutely and it was a match now. They had to get to work building their cases and that meant evaluating the evidence in both cases and get their ducks in a row before they arrested him. Who had the better. Dna sample the idaho cases. Dna profile came from a blanket but their issues. When you have a semen stain on a blanket is like getting the sample off of a blanketed the motel. It could have been somebody that was there six months ago or a year ago. We don't know it's very interesting that there and obviously if it shows up to murder scenes like this does it adds significant. But it doesn't say that he was there at the time or in near proximity to win. This murder happened whereas ours. We can pretty safely that he was with our victim within forty eight hours of when she died the dna on the blanket. Talking about the motel room know. It reminds me of this seedy motel. That i stayed at once in vegas and we found the husks from sunflower seeds. Like the shell. Dirty shells under all the sheath. My like the bed had been made with fresh shoots on top but there were still sunflower shelves in the bet. It was the most. I don't know why but it like no barf and we ran out of there and did not stay the night. You know what you are spun on. Because i actually remember seeing this thing and i could never see it so every time i go into hotel room i think of this unfortunately and maybe i shouldn't share this because i don't want to give this to someone else i'm going to. Yeah so they just basically sprayed looming all on on your typical decent hotel room and it lit up and it was like. Oh my gosh with body fluids and you don't know where the fluids are coming from where he could be saliva or could be anything so i mean it's just you know when you stay at people's places when you stay at a hotel. It's like you know you just kind of have to put that out of your mind buffet. But the seeds gross. Kim like i have gone back and forth and i actually reached out to you because that's helped me make the decision here because it's just such a horrendous awful detail and yet because of when you're putting together a cold case and it's like what is going to be your strongest case. And so because they did have his profile on the blanket in the idaho case. That doesn't mean that. He admitted that he was there. But it didn't mean that he murdered her right. It didn't mean that he's sexual who brutally sexually assaulted her. And so in the case in washington in maryland's case not only had he sexually assaulted her and he plunged scissors through her heart. He had violated her with a hairbrush in it. Is that hairbrush. That absolutely puts that dna profile at the time of her death based on the forensics of how she died and when she died it left zero. Doubt that the person who left their dna was also her killer. So i went back through the pictures and i was able to isolate one picture. That was taken at the scene where you can see. Maybe a quarter of an inch of that hairbrush that still outside the body that the offender had not been able to shove inside and i talked to the dna scientists. About what what. What about if we just tested this tiny little end of this hairbrush. What do you think about that. And he said you know what it's a murder case it's unsolved for this. Many years it to me will do again. And doggone it if i didn't get a semen sample of the very tip of that hairbrush. That was still sticking outside of her body in that matched lee miller as well so this brush was just used violate her but it was still there when they found her remains. It was still inside of her. Yes it was and so it's it's interesting though during the zoom call that i had with detective garland. He saw the reaction on my face to this. I mean he described all of the other. Horrendous things that maryland had undergone and just say that cut did not include all of the horrendous detail because yeah it was pretty grotesque. Yeah it it really was and we talked about that like. There's just a certain details in case that when you hear them it's just it. It just puts you a kind of the edge if it isn't bad enough to talk about a woman being raped in her own home in being strangled and then being shoved a pair of scissors through her heart as she's dying or is already did. It's funny because you know. We talked about all those things prior to the hairbrush. But then when i told you about the airbrush you're like oh my god and i could see the reaction you on your face there and it's just like it almost takes it to this new level like as if this person wasn't bad enough now they've just reached a new level of some kind of sadistic pleasure that they take in this whole thing. Yeah i mean. I think it goes to show that that rape is not a crime of sexuality is a crime of violence crime of you know. He wanted to see the pain on her face. He wanted to see her humiliation and he fed off of that and he used anything that he could get his hands on including a hairbrush to do it. Yeah and ultimately. Here's the thing about the cold cases too. Because detective garland took that extra and had that they still had it all these years later that hairbrush and he took the extra step and was like. Hey let's get this tested. We need to make sure that we have an iron clad case and there was just no way that this defendant or this suspect could squirm out of being there at the time of her death. At that point we knew our case. It's very much stronger than their case was and so. I was able to get a murder warrant based on that evidence so january. Twenty nineteen mardi flew out to boise with an arrest warrant in his hand and for the first time he met detective. Monte iverson from boise and though they were literally meeting for the first time they become close to their work pulling the cases together and going this back and forth but it must have been like a really kind of weird scenario of like. You're meeting someone that you've been really having their best hangnail and the excitement your i can't imagine like okay. We've got this. We've got basically let's go get. Let's go get her guy right so what they did basically is that they pooley miller over in a traffic stop and while they were doing this they weren't doing it. They were devising a plan of how this is where we talk about how this is. This is chess isn't checkers. They wanna get a confession because they have really solid evidence. But it's like it's gonna save everyone. Yeah and it. Can you imagine a trial with all the horrific details that we've heard about this and what he did to these women being heard by a jury and courtroom. I mean that is just her family hostage. Continue to endure so of course. That's on their minds so it had been over twenty years since the the murders of maryland and cheryl i. I can't even imagine what he was thinking. Well we thought he got away with it. Yeah and then when they pull him and bring him in like what you know. There was no doubt that he must have been shaken in his boots. Looks like any regular old fifty. Two year old guy who's kind of lived a little bit more. Go rough life in. He presented very friendly. And like joe average neighbor and he was raising his two daughters a by himself and he was holding down a job in was just a regular do is nothing in his life. That would raise any kind of red flags or anything. What about the fact. That as far as we know these are the only two murders that he's been connected to and they were thinking either. This has to be somebody who's dead or in jail because no other murder seem to have been committed. I mean what was he doing in all in the last twenty years i think he was just living his life going back and forth. You know he'd looked like he'd been ridden hard. And whatever that put away wet horse. That was like i really comment. It's literally physically wet. Okay so he had been in jail but he hadn't been out for a long time. He had these two daughters that he was raising. I think that there's like since we've seen mind hunter. And all these shows like a database that you can just put in certain things. And i just think that there is that but i also think it's not as organized am so they were pulling him in thinking. Yeah everything matches up to this guy. But did he do other things we don't right. Yeah the two that we know of batch. Say yeah so i'm gonna play. There was ten hours of interview. And i wanted to share just a little bit here because i think it kind of speaks to a couple of things. They're asking him about his relationship with maryland. But there's this dance that's going on between him and the investigators and like he's like i'm sure trying to like. How much do they know what's going on. Because he's trying to act like he's just joe schmo so there's a couple of things going on which i want to pick apart when after i play this to her council things are at her place and usually there's some new sleep on the floor. Okay and then you go on the floor okay. Did you ever vase. There did or not drinking a lot back then. I know some things are and some things come back. I mean. I remember going to the arcade all the time when i was growing up and hanging out down there and i still remember some of my friends and the lowlander going to sustain. Everybody always thought that he did it for insurance when birds because he was mike. You know it's it's just trying to change the subject trying to talk about anything other than what the detective wants to talk about trying to give yourself any kind of out. Like the whole. I don't remember much of drunk a lot. And he's like. I would sleep on the floor when i would remember but in a world like i feel like your patients. It's so tedious like we can't even like if our phones don't turn on instant like whoa what's going on right like i can't even imagine ten hours of that. Like that would be so grueling of him like trying to be like on the laundromat. I think they got back. You know you're you're having to go in his time line. Yeah and he knows that will end the detectives. No the gruesome disgusting unbelievable things that he did to these women and they have to sit there and play nice. They do not only an. And we're gonna get to that in a minute. Because i find that to be completely fascinating. They look they want him to look at a picture. And it's the crime scene photo and they're like cure borrow my readers because they're all about the same age right like really weird dynamic where it's like. They know what he's done and in spite of that they know what they need to do right. They know so. They have to be patient. They have to be list. They have to listen and build rapport but at the same time. They have to get him back to the meat which is that. He raped tortured. And murdered cheryl in maryland. And then i remember. This was so frustrating. You and i had such a hard time with this With the case that we did on ingrid line the date and the guy said that he blacked out. He didn't remember anything and it was such a cop out and this is so satisfying because detective garland will end up turning the screws about the blackout. Excuse you're going to to stand up an account of what happened here and that's your story. I remember because i blacked out. I must've been blacked out. Because i just don't remember i don't remember is that it's going to be your story and i'm going to stand up and say why didn't you ever go back to where housing kardashian. Why didn't you ever go back to her house. The second round. They're having sex that night. Go back way you play four with her again way. You ever have any of her friends about her again. I don't remember plant pool. You did play pool. There any played that night that you guys read the bar you played. I had with it. They're playing pool. So why didn't you ever play waiting. You ever dream with her. Yeah why didn't you ever ask anybody about for again. I'm in virginia. The guessing back in the nineties is not that big of a town that was given major news. You're gonna run into somebody is your about this lady that killed so even if you didn't even need in blackout desiccated can't tell me for the next year and a half as you were still in bremerton washington. You didn't hear about her not sushi that the jury is going to have. I understand that. And i'm getting what you're saying. I don't have any memory of this. I am so impressed. The whole field of that line of questioning is so different from what we heard earlier. I know and it's almost like they have flipped a switch in their own personalities to decide. Okay we can really be our true selves now can be the detectives again. We don't have to be this guy's friend anymore. We've gotten as far as we're gonna get. We've got as much as we're going to get. Now get to say what we really think. Yeah that's so. Brilliant like yes. If you blacked out you'd be rough one but you wouldn't never talk to that person again. You would never go back there. You remembered something horrible happened. Otherwise why wouldn't you ever go back. Why would you never talk to this person who was dead. No i know. But i'm just saying that's why he. He claims that he never knew that she was dead. That's what he's saying. But then why would he never tried to reach out to her again so you might be thinking that they have you know why do all this. They have an what appears to be a pretty ironclad case with all this dna the jailhouse confession about cheryl's murder and knowing he lived in bremerton the time. Yeah the the witnesses that put him in at the drift in with maryland. A confession to a coworker at mcdonalds. Who called in that tip with that paper. But the reality was the idaho. Case was pretty much all circumstantial but they're. Da looked at their case. Man all we got really is dna on a blanket in the scene. We've got no witnesses putting him there. In fact six months after they in their boise case within six months they arrested somebody for that crime and they had actually put him in jail and come across some other information that they ended up letting them go but they had already arrested somebody for that specific murder. It sounds like probably what it was is. People had seen her drug dealer boyfriend. Go into the scene and find her dead and then he fled and so they actually went out and arrested him on that charge so their case at a bunch of other hurdles that they really felt like we. Just don't have enough to arrest this guy with just the the scene and having such a strong other suspect is gonna make it that much harder for them to convict anybody else of the crime because it's going give the defense and immediate you will. What about this guy. Yeah i mean circumstantial. Evidence is powerful. But it's also really scary when you're innocent. According to an associated press reports. Floyd parker had been convicted in the death of another woman almost fifteen years earlier. Who was killed in. The same way cheryl two months after the arrest. They let him go because of a lack of evidence but it's just scary how he didn't have anything to do with us and yet you know. He could've looked like. Hey he's he's good for people living arrested and spent thirty years in jail for lunch at some point. During the interrogation the tables turned and miller would admit to killing cheryl but he said it was an act of self-defense. Apparently now he remembers well he remembered enough to know that it was that he said it was self defense. And it's a really interesting thing. Apparently there was a candy bar that they had gotten miller and they said why. Don't you use the candy bar as a knife to show us the struggle of you. Defending yourself against cheryl and so they're standing in front of me facing one another and monte holds up this candy bar knife in his hand and he says was about here about here and and lee justice. Hanson knows about here and he says okay. So i'm coming towards you. When he takes a step towards lee miller and lee reaches out and grabs his hand in this fluid motion and absolutely turns a candy bar. Shoves it right into maltese chest. Just exactly like his victim had been killed with his knife shift right through chest and it was so shocking in so quick that it made me stand up out of my seat like i was witnessing you know an assault or something in front of me it was just it was very shocking and louis kind of at the point he he realize you know that it all happen quick and he's like hey am sorry you know what i mean to upset anybody but it was almost like he was literally reliving that moment when he showed that knife into her chest if her head was almost cut off in the things that you claim i must have blacked out and i don't know what happened there you know so he always had this kind of blackout story that he went back to but in a way that would support his claim of self-defence wouldn't it if he was able to go through the motions and show them yeah. This is how it could've happened. I think that the way that he did it made. It seem more like he was murdering her than than self defense and in that moment like they were just expecting him to be like. Hey get away you know that kind of. Here's the candy bar. And he suddenly like without the viciousness and the violin. Yeah ray came you saw. He took off the mask and kinda lost himself. Lincoln and i think that that happens where people think they're smarter. They think they're gonna get away with inter or they think they're going to say the things that will get them and then just naturally just mess up and that's exactly what he did with this candy bar. I asked marty what it was like. Seeing miller go from this joe average to a cold blooded killer. The great part of it i think was and i probably watched in half a dozen times after that is what a great piece of evidence or you know if if we had ever had to go before jury you know it seems like you could put out that thirty second clip and build up and just show them that little chunk and i think that every person on that jury would be able to imagine him doing that. Exact same thing with a knife and not thinking twice about it. I mean for lack of a better term. It was just amazing to watch him kind of turn it on and turn it off like that and become back to this regular guy. Kind of apologetic. Jeez sorry and i hope i didn't alarm you know kind of afterwards and showed you how he was truly. The psychopathic could live one way. One moment in a different way of different. Move jekyll and hyde mia for sure. So at some point during this interrogation you know we talked about how you know. They're besties and it got as say shit. Got real getting down to brat pack for another. Talk about I i don't remember doing going playing cards and drinking and having sex with this lady and there is ample and then those things happen. And i have witnesses and neighbors there. I have a bartender with the night that she died. I haven't kind of kept driver. That has you in the taxicab with her. As the only person that got drop with her that night at her apartment at about two ten in the morning of are closed and then vow three hours later comes in the door and into cone. comfortable forget. Can we've gone already about three hours there. Where lacking you cling into apartment. She's never seen alive again. She's found dead for several hours at your siemens anger. Dna on harebrained idea. So at the end of the day miller made a deal he admitted to murdering cheryl barrett. And according to this plea deal. He was sentenced to twenty five years he took an alford plea to second degree murder in maryland's case and an alford plea is not a guilty plea. The defendant asserts they're innocent but acknowledges the evidence against them as so overwhelming they would likely be found guilty by a jury so defendants will agree to an alford plea to get a lesser sentence without admitting guilt so they went in there thinking he was going to get twenty years for both of these in court. He said quote after drinking and using drugs on the night in question. I don't have memories of it. But i do remember stabbing miss barrett and i want to plead guilty. Because i feel that i am guilty. I basically have no defense for this. And then the judge in washington could have signed off on that twenty five year sentence for both murders but instead when it came to maryland's case in washington. She sentenced him to seventeen more years. Because of the brutality of the crimes once the judge decided that that was what she was going to do with she's longer gavel in. It was all over with kind of this moment in the courtroom where it almost stopped the breath that everybody who's in there because nobody expected it and when she did it and she crashed down her gavel at the end of it after she'd made the ruling she looked over me. 'cause i'm sitting all by myself over in the jury box and gave me this. Just the faintest wink like yeah. We got him. Don't worry about it. We're gonna take care of things you know kind of thing and i just thought that's just awesome. I just. I just really appreciate that. She understood the gravity of case instead. This guy is not somebody you should be out amongst regular people anymore. I love that. I i do wonder a couple of things one. Would they have gotten that alford plea. If they knew that he could be sentenced to more than twenty five years when they were expecting twenty-five years when they entered that could they go back and say never mind. You know a hand. That was what i said to mardi two like. Why would he did. He know that this could happen. Why would you sign that if you knew. And he's like yeah they warn. You can just kind of hope that the judge is going to be on your side and just sometimes that happens. You know where the judge is like. Okay so i think they thought he was going to get twenty five years and part of the plea deal was that he wanted to do his time in idaho because of his his family that was there and so i think that's okay rolling the dice. You know as a wonder about whether the fact that it was a female judge had any effect on the fact that that she decided this was so horrendous and needed more time You know it's hard to say because you would hope that a man would would do the same because of the horrendous nature of the crime in what they did. But yeah i mean how could it not and i love our. I guess my. I loved how detective garland was kind of fan. Girling over the judge like which she cracked her galilee. I just love that so much. But there's another kind of interesting thing i just wanted to talk about. For a second. As detective garland was kind of summing up in our interview after the interrogation they flew lee miller back to washington state and detective garland was kinda topping about the nuts and the bolts and then he talked about when they were on the airplane. And this was just a really. He said this offhand. I mean not really anything related to the case but it was just kind of an interesting detail. We flew from boise to seattle and as we got up in the air. You know. we're kind of bank. And coming out of boise turning towards seattle each turns over and he looks at me and exist normal. And i said oh yeah. They always do this. Coming out of boise not always take off in south. Then you have to turn real heart and go back. North seattle was okay. 'cause i never been on an airplane before and this is this one only airplane dripping ever taken in his life and it was to go to prison for the rest of his life when i just thought man. There's some irony there. I don't know it's just very interesting. What struck me about. That is the way that miller looked. Detective garland for comfort in that situation. And how he did comfort him he did settle his mind and i would have said like no what are they doing. Are we going down. I gotta job. That is so has to be a time so depressing and frustrating and angering and everything else. I would take the opportunity when it came. Yeah but i think that this this whole relationship. It's very unique. That can be forged. This is not the first time we've talked to an investigator who's talked about this kind of like weird bond that's established between the suspect and the investigator. There is this unusual bond that develops between in detective when you spend you know. Ten hours in a room with somebody sharing a meal and talking about the most intimate details of their life. You kind of develop this odd. I wouldn't say friendship but kind of kinship inasmuch as they develop the trust in you that they're willing to share these things with you that they would never if you would ask them at the beginning of the interview. They never say that they were planning on admitting. And you know you have to of overcome that and you have to develop this bond and that bond is a real thing at least on their side. I mean there's been many times where i've been asked you know. Are you going to be there court date. Because i want to make sure they're like you're supporting m. friend and not realizing yeah. I'm gonna be there. But i'm going to be at the table on the other side of the room on your side. You know kind of thing because there's this interesting dynamic that develops between people when they spend that much time talking about intimate things that you know. Only the two of them know that will one because they were there one. Because they've studied the case for many many many hours. It reminds me of like stockholm syndrome. But instead of it happening between somebody who's being held captive and a cap door. I mean in a way it is right. I mean the police are holding this person captive. But it's it's not unintentional psychology and we know how to use this aspect of human psychology. Where there's this desire to connect and be understood by another human being and use that to our advantage. Yeah and i think to being let down by the system. I don't know what lean billers childhood was like. But i feel like i can make some assumptions that maybe he didn't have the best childhood and maybe he didn't have a mentor in his life. And we know that. Not having a mentor. In a child's life is one of the biggest usually your parental figure. But if you don't have that like a coach or know somebody in authority who kind of shows you the ropes and shows you things and i wonder these detectives the could be considered a mentor to them. You know and that's because the victims were both of them. Older women older than him yet cheryl was forty. Nine and maryland was fifty seven. Yeah so i wonder too. If that's like you said looking for that parental figure. Yeah may maybe. The same goes for his victims. He looking for women to fill the role that maybe wasn't filled when he was a kid. Like you said we don't know about his childhood but it does seem like there's some kind of mom issues. How definitely in back to your question like could he have committed other crimes in that database at magic database that we always think that exists in the world where we can find out if there's a profile for this person. Apparently millard never went into the y. Of his crimes. But marty did look back through some records and found that lee was named person of interest in a home invasion rape case that was never solved back around the same time in the same neighborhood as maryland but never convicted of it and it happened. Only three months before maryland was never killed in. It's almost like you can see us. Working his way up to this or he had been committed this rape and this woman had come back to accuse him of it so he had determined in his mind. Okay i'm not gonna leave victims alive to point a finger at me anymore. I'm just gonna kill them after these rains which makes me again think there could be other victims out there absolutely and when detectives asked him if there were any more murder victims he said quote. I don't know i hope not. And if you're wondering why. Maryland had that scrap of paper with lee miller's every every you're asking me about that earlier the answer came from that tip that was called in said he was looking for a place to stay bremerton not impossible anymore and i knew maryland new a lot of people downtown so i told lee i would passes name along the maryland and she would contact him if she ever found a place for them to live and that's why his name was on a scrap of paper in her purse. So interesting how things. Come around. And this guy worked at mcdonalds with lee miller. That was the mcdonald Connection that somebody had called in and said you know. Hey this guy. Who works at the paul go. Mcdonald's they leave. Miller knows a little bit too much about the case and also the connection to that piece of paper in her purse. So it's It's interesting when you kind of get to see the whole puzzle. Pieces fit together after you're able to see the finished product and it's another layer to this tragedy. It suggests that maryland may have called him and asked him to meet her there to talk about. Maybe she'd found a place that he could stay in. Bremerton said if memory serves me correctly that there was. They didn't have any evidence to support that she had but they didn't have evidence to support that she didn't and the thing too is that she was doing him. A solid rights. Right might help him out. Yeah he didn't even know who this person was who who's was calling him to be. I mean assuming there was a phone call made. He wouldn't have known who she was. I just think about how just horribly unlucky she was. Yeah the lynch pin in this case wasn't just the dna but the relationship and partnership in sharing information between detective garland and detective iverson which is ironic because so often the stories that we hear in law enforcement are like of them not working to get it right. And i just love this relationship that developed like. When i was talking to detective garland he was like when monte called him just to tell them about the dna match. He's like oh dude. It's not him and marty's like what he's just kidding it's in celebration like this camaraderie. That i wish we could see more of an and mari speaks to this. It's funny that you say that because i watched dramas on tv or movies or whatever they always play this. You know the fbi comes in and takes over my case in darned fbi. And i'm so mad. You know as the local detective in in in the they're always trying to avoid the fbi. Taken their case in in inter jurisdictional angst that we have. And it's so funny. Because i've been a cop for twenty years in being a detective for ten years and i've never ever had anything that resembles anything ever happened in one of my cases and i've worked with the fbi on a bunch of cases in fact these particular murder cases. They've offered a lot of help and done. Dna step forest and done backgrounds up force. And it's always tell me what you want. I'll go do that. And i'll bring it back to you and then you tell me what else you want. You know this great resource that they allow us to tap into that. They're just happy to do anything to help us on our case that they can without any obligation to quote unquote. Give it up or to give them all the glory or you know. They are hardly even mentioned in most of our cases but just a a report here or report their about collecting this or interviewing that person her but sometimes those are so big pieces that we aren't able to do ourselves because of a cost or a jurisdiction or things like that it becomes a super helpful. And i think that that in my experience is the norm as opposed to Being the exception. I think he's totally right. But let's be honest. I mean if we're talking about an investigation where everybody gets along and shares information and they find the killer. It's not as interesting. It's not as compelling of a story. It just isn't yeah. We'd like to hear about strife and conflict in overcoming and beating the odds and twists and turns and so we don't usually hear the stories like this where everybody worked together and a great outcome but it does happen so often well and that's what i love about. The podcast is that we can highlight that chasing those headlines of like click bait right this. Actually you know you had two people. Pounding the pavement working together and i wanted to end this with maryland. Son robert hickey. To k tv be news. But i've been waiting for twenty six years for this very day to happen. And when i got that call at all right we have something we finally adds up. Team in boise right under our freaking noses is the killer and i'm glad that detectives did a hell of a job and kept at it and openness cold case because if it wasn't for them he would have never been caught and for that. I'm thankful he deserves everything he gets. And that's what i wanna see. I want justice twenty six years worth your only have one mother one he took. It can never replace that ever. Yeah you can hear the the years in his voice now. But i was just telling my son the other day you will always be my little boy and he will always look at his mother the way a little boy looks at his mommy. You just tell in the way that he talks about her. And i'm so happy that he was still around to get the closure that he needed. Yeah i mean he had when i was watching the a piece that they had the package from k. t. v. he has this photo album that has all of these the new stories. And that's you know kind of this shrine to his mother and it's like you know we can't forget what people go through in these families in the cold case and to know that just on so many different levels like they cared to continue picking up the torch and there were so many detectives along the way like if they had collected that dna evidence so meticulously. This case would not have been solved right. So i'm so happy that they had the outcome that they did. And i'm so grateful to detective. Marty garland that he is he's so forthcoming and honest about his conversations with the suspects. Yes sometimes we have to be friendly with them as much as it's distasteful and disgusting. It's what we have to do to get our job done and so to have people out there like mardi garland who do that work but then also are willing to be so open and honest about it with us so we can understand our world a little bit better and understand the whole psychology of of crime. A little bit better is phenomenal. I just wanted mentioned that. Thank you. Detective garland I should write him like a little. Thank you notice. I think you just gave it to him. Gave if you come across a story that you think is really fascinating. Maybe you haven't heard very many people talking about it or maybe you have. But you don't feel like you've heard the whole story would love to dig in a little deeper so feel free to reach out to us at scene of the crime. Podcast dot com. You can also find us on facebook instagram twitter. And i wonder if we should ever do tiktok a mean feel like i'm a little old for ticked up to be honest here a little old for tiktok but it's so popular on how i feel like i'm already so pulled apart with all these different like my daughters are on instagram. I'm on. I don't want it to be like on facebook but i'm on facebook that age bracket i know i still the only moms on facebook. Where like to see us on talk. I'd be willing to entertain that possibility but at the same time. Like i do sort of feel like there'd be a learning curve for me her well that at least you're not calling the tiktok no see i knew when it was still a. That's how old school tiktok a a musically account. I don't even know what musically is. It's what tiktok okay. Well i'm carol. Was oreo with kim. 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