17 Episode results for "Victoria Wood"

Dame Patricia Routledge

Monocle 24: The Big Interview

29:29 min | 1 year ago

Dame Patricia Routledge

"Uh-huh. Speaking. Do I sound like a Chinese takeaway? I'm a hunter desirable private residence in narrative, outstanding natural property values. And I'm waiting the apology unless oppose the thought of being shoots and crispy one ton of totally stir-fry debates. Kindly clear this line. People have substance in this community are probably queuing touring me at this very moment. As the pretentious hyacinth bucket bouquet Dame. Patricia route ledge to fit the duster to Britain's cost system release skewering, a particular kind of Britishness as recognizable to the people of England as it is to anyone who knows anything about the nation's character, the legendary sitcom keeping up appearances ran from nineteen ninety to nineteen ninety five and quickly became one of United Kingdom's most successful, international productions. But while MRs bouquet is certainly her most famous role. It's just one be now ninety year old Dame Patricia's many achievements in a career that spanned nearly seventeen years from her monologues, as suburban spinster kitty broadcast live as part of the comedy series Victoria wood, as seen on TV to her many state credits on both the West End and. Broadway, this veteran legend of stage and screen as stabbed herself as one of Britain's great dramatic performance. I'm Ben Ryland. And I'm delighted to say that day Patricia route ledge joined me here at Meduri house for the big interview. So Dame Patricia, I want to start by talking to you about your absolute passion. Because of course, you are known full movies on television, very much. But it seems to me that your absolute passion is still the stages that a fist agent. Well, say tourists the test really that's where you learn your job, if you think of quite a number of feted successful television actors that basic training has been in Santa and when it works that is nothing like it, the immediate exchange of an imaginative imagined experience with a live audience. There's nothing like it s- quite wonderful. Do you think it changes you as an actor if you if you were to come into your acting career and maybe? Primarily trained in front of a camera compare that to someone who has had a lot of stage training. Does it change the way that you approach the craft? Well, you require really a different technique for television of film, the new full Santa, you have to project in a theater, even though you may be playing an intimate scene. You've got to find out how it can hit the little man on the back row and yet preserve the truth of chill playing, and taking back a little bit first because I'd like to know how you came to be in a career on the stage, you grew up in Cheshire. And this would have been during the second World War. I imagined that at that time a career in the performing arts wouldn't have been shall we say the most obvious choice headed it'll come about. You. I don't know. I over say the kicking and screaming. I've face my destiny I grew up in a family, the loved there, and I lived in a wonderful town called Birkenhead, which had a quite marvelous musical the owed music wherever you would have a list of tons. And I mean, some of the great comedians, which I saw I saw some of the greats and they took thirty years to perfect their act and they were going around the country doing twice nightly may be, and then moving on testing themselves against a live audience. And so I used to as quite a small child here. My mother and father talking about the theater, they went to. And my mother took me to my first. Don't pro lab. O M. She took me to my first Gilbert, Sullivan and one just loved it all, but I have no intention whatsoever of going on the wicked stage. My intention was to teach this wonderful English language which I grew to love in composition. And then when I was at school, we used to learn great chunks of boat dri, some of which I can still remember. But I thought it was all part of education, you know, reading writing arithmetic history, geography, sing a song do a don's recite to poem player, part, all part of this wonderful discovery. But of course it's it. It's really the people who are your mentors who spot a seed of something in you and not as shit. And then you have to begin to take it seriously yourself that mentor that you speak of their I'm assuming you're referring to the academic Edmund college. Well eventually, but, I mean, my first mentor, always, my mother, not that she was in any way push shaved Seattle. Mom. I mean you didn't do that sort of thing when I came from, you know, and you were never told at I came from the, you had anything really special in case you got a swollen head. Did you feel as if you had something special though? I didn't think of it in that way, I was one of the very few people willing to give up my serves Delongchamps to study. The, the recitation of, of lyric poetry sonnet at pick Shakespeare improvise Asian. And so it was all going on behind my back. And then, of course, you know, my great one for recognizing the signs, I think the red trickle in life is spotting the opportunities and the great skill is choosing the right ones. Let's Volvo would slightly, because you eventually, of course, made your way to the stage at the West End, you made your London debut when you got up on stage at the West End full the first time, of course unmistakably this is now you'll career your own the stage. Did you feel as if you've made it never, you're never feel as you've made it made what I have considerable repertory experience. There were repertory companies all over the country, and that's where you begin and make mistakes. And observe the more experience players. The great tragedy now. Is that those attract companies no longer exist? You would be part of a group of people who were there for twelve months, two years, three years, and I had an open invitation to audition for the Liverpool playhouse and finally, took a deep breath and went down nor dishes. And, and I thought if I'm not offered a job as an unpaid assistant stage manager. Then that's the writing on the wall. That says it I'm not good enough, but I was off the job. And then I trained further at a drums, school is low Vicks air to school that it prestigious and then began to. Anna living. I always swore the device. Didn't earn a decent living within four years. I would pack to in. Well, thankfully, you didn't. And thank you hit this. Thank you. But tell me it's it is always tempting to look back at something, whether it's, it's fear or any sort of performing ARA and say, oh, it used to be so much better than it is today. But you of course, you do still go to the theater, very often, you're still playing roles in the theatre often I'm JoAnne, busman's holiday, very much like to see I'm always amazed that up there doing it. You know, when I see someone like McKellen, or David Suchet will Judi Dench, or I mean, this country is full of wonderful actors, I wanna talk about your leap to Broadway. You did that in nineteen sixty six with a play by Roja Milner, and it was titled, how's the world tree? Eating you now the review in the New York Times, it was by Walter it opened with this line. The new comedy at the music box is yet another British import and before it goes back to of its players should be captured and kept, so the theater review of the New York Times thought he should keep you on Broadway that you weren't allowed to go back to the West End, that's a fairly promising start isn't it? It was very exciting. It was very exciting play which began life at the hamster theatre club. A small theater up near Swiss cottage. And then it transferred to the Altes theater, then it transferred from the arts there to, to Wyndhams as small and very good American management, soit and took three of us across to Broadway. And so that was, my Deb, you he was feted generous to me while to Kerr. And he was very important critic, of course, New York Times. Absolutely you and yet with digits certainly even now but certainly back then as well. What was it like they're making the lead into Broadway because you were coming from a coach like the West End which has its own very rich, traditions, and Britain has its own? Very, very well functioning, thriving theater industry, then to make the leap into Broadway. One imagines that it must have been a very different. Coach did you feel as if you perhaps, the Dame Patricia Rutledge touching down on Broadway inside a spaceship getting off onto the strange new planet. Well, there was so much to take in, but it was so exciting but at the heart of it all. You do your job. I mean you don't alter performance because you're in New York, you tell the story and adhere to the character or characters in this case, the with three different characters I played as you were. When you first started to explore the play I enjoyed it very much. Did you find that there's a substantial difference between the styles of acting a lotta people say, look on the American stage people act this way things, more exaggerated? It's all very, very different. Whereas the certainly the rhythm of performance seems to be different here in London. You can have a few pregnant pauses along the way you can allow the audience to pick up on what's being said, simply through a polls in a sentence, someway whereas in American humor, in American writing that might not be quite the same, did you pick up on those subtle differences, as well? I think with regard. Comedy. The American audience is required to be spelled out rather, I think we're subtler really and sometimes an American audience will not grasp the idoney of a character or a situation, but the wonderful thing about American audiences is the warmth of anticipation when they come into a theater, they're determined that they're going to have a good experience and they're going to enjoy the evening, and that you can almost taste it. I completely agree with that you are, of course, most closely associated with television acting, and there is you'll most famous role highs Bukeye, but that didn't come until. The nineteen nineties. I just wanna talk about your initial foray into television because initially you weren't attached to any long-term series for quite a long time. It was only that long term commitment that came later in your career. What was it about television that drew you to that form of craft I can only imagine that at that point back in the early days of, of your career, the idea of a theater actor acting on television Mata, being quite different. A lot of theater actors didn't really take such a kind of you to the medium of television. It's good writing on response to good writing television. Of course, began to give a -tunities wider opportunities to actors who'd spent the major part of their careers in theater. It was a medium. That you have to address. I did take Paul quite early on in some episodes of Coronation Street, and Olen knew was that I didn't want to get caught up in that forever. With something about the, the process of acting in a soap opera that made you think not quite right as other adventures to have more interesting really. But it was nice to be asked, and I did three episodes, then departed. I'm not fortunate enough to of ever taken a role in a soap opera. I mean, there's still time in my career, maybe I'll get to that point at some point, but my understanding is that acting in a soap opera. The metabolism full soap opera acting is actually quite fierce. And we often sort of looked down upon the soap opera but the craft and the effort involved in, in making production lack of soot, Parise act quite enormous and the discipline, you know, you have to shape you'll life round the requirements of rehearsal and presentation, but I didn't want to get stuck forever at goes for keeping up appearances as well. Talk to me about Victoria, would I because before highs in the UK, there was kitty and your your participation in Victoria wood as seen on TV that series. Twenty-one who knows you first and foremost as hyacinth bouquet. They might be surprised at just how we could say abrupt maybe blunt. But how Roches a character kitty was. How does he test? Desk. She was good test. She was great ask up -solutely, but somehow Cutie being expressed by Dame, Patricia Rutledge. She doesn't come across as grotesque. She does to me. I can't show. Yes. I was terrified of that. They were forty minute monologues. By this ridiculous woman who'd become an overnight celebrity because she'd walk the penance in slingbacks or something in the interest of mental health, very dangerous stuff. But I remember I was terrified because they went out live, I was testing new comic material in front of a live audience for the first time. I mean on the whole, you know, where the major laughs should come, but the always surprises, and Victoria used to find me hiding in the wardrobe barrier. You know, reluctant to go out to the studio and she'd say, come on, they're all waiting for you. So, but. Very skillful written stuff. I mean, I think with that kind of comedy, and with the famous lady. We're going to talk about spos-. I think you paint with post colors, they are larger the knife. And so you've got to take that risk really risk. It's what it's about risk. Speaking of risk a lot of people who can watch those models kitties monologues. They're easily accessible people can relive them, but a lot of people weren't understand to appreciate that. They were done live. There was a lot of risk involved just the making. This was miserable. I was glad she didn't write and emo- for me. I think I begged not to really. Oh, you make make quite nervous looking back. I'm thinking about it all. Nevertheless, there is something much more intimate about television isn't there because at the theater people have really made an evening to come out and watch you coming into your environment theater. Whereas with television your being invited into their way are coming into the city in Rome's invading their homes, which is why people off from. St. think they can be very familiar with you. Tell me about the segue from kitty into hyacinth. It does seem like a bit of a natural progression. When we talk about it. I didn't think of it like that at all. I done some of the wonderful Alan Bennett monologues, which he had written for me. And I remember when Victoria approach me about playing the kitty row. And she sent me some scripts, and I got in touch with Allen and said that died been offered. The he said, is it funny? Are they funny? And I said, yes, I think they are in strange kind of way. And he said, well, do them then. Because he had already established the monologue television monolog with some wonderful writing, and I didn't want to invade that space, but he was very generous. You've reached a point in your career now where you've achieved so much on stage on on television in films. And yet in a lot of people's is the defining role for Dame, Patricia Rutledge is going to be heisinge bucaneer. Yes. How do you feel about them? Well, there was a life before that and there's been alive afterwards. If people get stuck with that, I can't do anything about it, if it brings people into Santa for a performance, I'm giving because of that. I couldn't be more pleased, and they might get a surprise. Have you met people like hyacinth Fouquet? Oh, yes. Of course, I remember the from down the is then all over the world, they're everywhere never recognizable everywhere. They are recognizable everywhere. But the thing is, and this was interesting for me having having watched it as a young child growing up in Austria. There is something uniquely, British about it. And yet it does translate well into other cultures. Because as you say, they are everywhere thought at the same time, it does invent this sort of safe space for us to really pick up on a certain kind of Britishness and feel okay at laughing at that this sort of assumed prestige, that comes with a class society, but pretension is universal I get letters from all over the world still. I know that they're going out to everywhere, still and. Pretension the doesn't achieve its go. Is the heart of comedy malvolio MRs Mallam prop some great characters in literature. And that's what's recognizable people who think that a cut above everybody did their in society all over the world. Did you feel that you understood her as a character caricature? From the page. When I read the first script, we is an I've looked back on remembered ladies like that. When I was quite young. I've always been great observer of. People. So came in and I would imagine that, you still get requests, not only to talk about it, but also jumped back into character. But there was a clear point where you decided. No, no, this is enough. Do you think it's important to be able to switch things off not when they become exhausted? But when you've decided, I think it's just sensual, I always remember the great Rony bark, and t would stop something when he was at the height of it, and it's better to go out when people might be saying, oh, aren't you going to do any more than saying, who is that still on? Absolutely, yes. No knife. Felt the writer was recycling old ideas, and I want to freedom to become some of the else really. I didn't want to get stuck with for a term it though. I'm very grateful to. I must say it would be churlish of me, not to be we're all grateful thermoses. I recall, the great actress be author, one saying that even though she achieved so much in her career, and she had no regrets whatsoever. She was grateful to everything and everyone, there was one little niggling thing inside of her. That wishes she could have played one particular role in for her that was mama rose in the great musical production of gypsy for you. Is there a particular production or a particular character, the look at and say, if only I could have done that, just one I didn't spend energy regretting? But I would have liked to have plates. Joan in George Bennett shows. Play. But the time has gone, nevertheless, you all still onstage there. You're still remarkably active in the industry, and it is obviously, your first great love theater, what keeps you coming back to the stage. What is it the drools you back? Well, I'm not concerned certainly not in the last couple of years with doing eight performances week in a drama play or comedy. But time concern with what I would call being on the concert circuit with two presentations, one called admission one shilling, which tells the story of the great international pianist Myra Hess, who at the beginning of the second World War well known and much loved. She decided that people needed some spiritual nourishment. And she suggested that they might give some lunchtime music concerts in the heart of London. An eye and deed, Sohan heard her play during the war as a schoolgirl up in Liverpool because not only did she organize the National Gallery concerts. And play a great many of them, she shot off to other areas that have been badly bombed as indeed Liverpool was and played there. And I'll never forget not only the great gifts. But our whole demeanor, so this that. And then there's another conversation with a wonderful man called Edward Saxon, who wouldn't like me to call him a music colleges. But that's the narrowest description, his knowledge of all kinds of music is God Ganshoren, ten years ago, he rang my and said, it's one of the best kept secrets in show business, how much work Patricia route said she has done in musical theater, and the amount of success and would she have a conversation with me about it, and we'll do it in? Front of a small audience. It'll be recorded. It'll go out on radio three and I had such a regard for him that I said, yes. Straight away. Now, we don't do it too often in order to keep it fresh. It has a structure, but it doesn't have a script, and we presented it on Sunday last at the exquisite Haymarket theatre. Royal Haymarket in London to a wonderful audience, extraordinary, and so nice that you'll still the still performing on the stage and clearly still absolutely enjoying it as well Dame Patricia relatives being an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you feel time and your interest, and your enthusiasm. Thank you very much. My thanks to Dame, Patricia Rutledge. She's does in admission one shilling alongside pianist P is lane. It's playing the Royal overseas league here inland. And on Tuesday, the eleventh of June. The big interview was produced by your lingo fund and edited by Nora whole. I'm Ben Ryland. Thank you very much for listening.

Dame Patricia Patricia Rutledge West End London Britain Ben Ryland New York Times United Kingdom Victoria Cheshire MRs bouquet Santa Victoria wood England Liverpool playhouse Altes theater Patricia route Seattle Volvo
The Morning Briefing

The Briefing

02:13 min | 1 year ago

The Morning Briefing

"Hello I'm Danny Boyle with the briefing from the Telegraph bringing you up to speed in two minutes. It's Wednesday December the eleventh the eve of the general election and so the final countdown. The last day of election campaigning policy leaders. We making the most of it though. Be crisscrossing the country in a last minute effort to win votes. That's because this elections on a knife-edge the race is tightening swimmer. Respected YouGov poll. It uses the same method that correctly predicted 2017 hung parliament the polls found. Boris Johnson's no longer assured of winning a Commons majority found hill secure twenty eight eight majority. But but that's within the margin of error so the moods tents Mister Johnson's Don an interview without political editor Golden Raina and he warns that tomorrow's an absolutely critical moment moment in our national history. He says he's genuinely worried. That tactical voting could put Jeremy Corbyn into number ten the prime minister's also given an insight into life. If outside the public spotlight the full interviews were worthy read now conditions are worsening volcanic island in New Zealand. It's preventing the recovery of victims of a huge eruption. That killed six people left eight more presumed dead and thirty seriously injured. Two British women are among the injured. Medics medic's worn many victims remained critically ill with severe burns. We've been speaking to rescuers who tried to save dying tourists. They compared it to a scene from Chernobyl now. The Duchess of Sussex is on a six week sabbatical from royal juices. And it's emerged. She's using it to plot the US launch of the Sussex Royal Foundation Dacian Macon said to be in work mode and determined to make it one of the world's most successful charities Victoria Wood's got details of how the Duchess is aiming to capitalize on a Hollywood connections. Right stay put if you're listening on. What's apple send you those links now listening on spotify apple or wherever you get your podcast? Go find them in the show notes as well as links to metropoles from. Last night's Champions League action and our fashion editors guide to what to wear for every kind of Christmas events. That's it you're up to date crystal. Have your next briefing.

Mister Johnson Danny Boyle Sussex Royal Foundation Dacian Jeremy Corbyn New Zealand Sussex apple prime minister Golden Raina US political editor spotify Victoria Wood Hollywood Don two minutes six week
Financial Diva and a Christian, Victoria Woods says "it's all about the money, honey!"

POSITIVELY JOY

42:32 min | 2 months ago

Financial Diva and a Christian, Victoria Woods says "it's all about the money, honey!"

"Hi it's yvette. here. Listen i'm just gonna take a few seconds to ask you for a big favor. If you love this podcast then hit the subscribe or the follow button. If you haven't already right now on your phone or on your computer and leave me a five star rating and then leave me review and tell me what you love about the show or what. You'd like me to talk about all. This really helps to send out the message of the positivity joy podcast to the people who need to hear it and then finally if you love it then share this with everybody that you know people when they're going through the valley of shadows debt. I got got said go through. Walk through the valley. He did not say by a ham sandwich and a doctor peppering camp out. Welcome to positively joy where you'll find god in the every day through everyday blessings every day happiness and even everyday sorrow. I'm your host yvette walker. Here we look for god in the commonplace and we find his joy in the details. Listen it positively joy dot com where you can get a free teachable on five ways to choose joy and review us on your favorite podcast app. Today we welcome victoria wood's to the show. She is the financial diva she. Ceo and chief investment advisor at chapel would financial services. she's radio host of. It's all about the money and she's here to tell us what we can do. We as christians can do to handle our money and to make good sound financial decisions. Hi victoria thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. read here. Well that is wonderful because we need to know all about money today. We need to talk about money and understand what to do with our money. You know as christians we want to. We want to be givers. You know we want to give to our church many of us give offerings and ties and we like to give to others but we also need to remember that we need to make sound financial decisions for ourselves and our family and so. I'm really happy to have you on the show today to talk a little bit about this but also for us to a little bit about you. So does that sound good. That sounds great. Okay so victoria you are finance. You are the financial diva which i love. I love that all got the money honey. It well i mean. I know that can sound to some people i can sound a little. We were crafts. But i mean it's world that we live in and there is that so now i have when i speak to women's groups if at what i do is i ask people out of the gate about. Is it all about the money honey. So let's say i'm in tulsa this speaking engagement and restore hundred and fifty women there and i asked him. You know how many of you believe it's all about the money honey and you know. They're not sure if they should raise their hands. They're all is like am. I supposed to say it or not in a few women do and then i said you know what in thirty seconds here. I'm going to explain to you in convince you that it is all about the money. Honey and all i have to do is ask how many of you own a 401k. How many of you have a draft coming on your checking account. How many of you have savings got. How many of you tie that your church helmets. And of course everybody's rise in her hand method ladies everything we do every single day all day long is we either spend money earn money. Give money away. invest money for doing something saving. Were doing something with money every single day all day long. So you're right. So i always start off my guests making your ince's Challenge at my say. Okay now after i go okay now you really believe. It's all about the money they get it and everybody. Every single woman raises her hand Well i i think we're going to get that today for sure but we're also gonna learn a lot more about you so So tell tell us about yourself and your family. Well thank you for asking. I am most people. Don't ask that. Because it's a very long story. But i have. I was raised in a family of seven. And i had three sisters. And i have two brothers and i have a half brother and i have a step brother and sister. So there's nine of us in this little bitty box house that we call it because it was a box look like matchbox house as a very very small to have that many people in two rooms. The only three doors one for the bathroom in one for each bedroom that we have and we were crammed in there so it we're in. Where was this. That was in fort worth texas. So i was raised. My parents were from wisconsin. So i was raised by yankees in fort worth texas. I have have it all. I know everything about it up north. We know the difference between a southland ended. dan. I mean your sister things you are. You're my momma who is a football fan from you know the green bay area so she was a huge fan still is so. I have all these brothers and sisters. I've been married for thirty going up thirty five years now. We've been in edmond now for thirty one years Moved here when my husband was transferred. Here i have ten nieces. I have four homestay daughters from asia. I have done goddaughter's in canada. And i have a one granddaughter so we have a lot of children now. Some young adults but children in our lives so we have a big family. Sounds like a beautiful family. it's very eclectic. Let me tell ya. I call it. A big bet is like the big fat greek wedding. I mean people look at this picture and they go. Wow you talk about multi cultural i. It's it's it is so it makes it fun. Yeah for sure. I just wanna make sure because there are people who listen to this podcast all around the world. So you said you're in edmond oklahoma. Guess that's my office. Is the corporate office for chapel. would however we We're costa costa me. We have clients in texas. We have clients on the east coast. We have clients in missouri. We have clients in california so we are are have been our corporate offices in in edmond which i founded the financial district. So there's eighty four acres of financial district in oklahoma right here in edmond oklahoma edmond and actually i used to live in edmond. Norman i do. Yeah near the university. Yeah yeah so who were early influences and this is an interesting question for you. Because i'd like you to answer it. You know as far as your family maybe early influences but also your early influences that taught you why finances are so important and how that waves into your life. Because like i said. I think that there are many christians who who feel weird about money they do. You know. I make a lot of money. Do i am reading in the bible that need to give it away. I'm that on the rich man and it's a bad person or or i'm a poor person. I mean it's just we have. I think we have a difficult relationship with money and being a christian yes in. I have talked about this in groups before Because you're absolutely right in in my book is all about the money honey. I wrote a book as well and in the beginning of the book. Which i'm going to you should have this gets to you because in the beginning i talk about your mindset in how do you feel about money because it is really really important. So let's start with your question about who influenced me. Who influence me in. My family was my aunt shirley because she gave me what i did not have in needed to larnaca totally unpredictable. Love so i believe that is so critically important to the foundation who anyone is is knowing that unconditional love in then. Another woman named shirley fitzgerald influence me and getting out of the. We didn't have lunch money. How do we had lunch money. I babysat six kids at a time when i was twelve. That was my job. Because i needed lunch money so those women helped me understand. First unconditional joy from my aunt shirley who has very close to and then shirley fitzgerald was a windy war director at montgomery ward and she came into our school as a teenager and i saw her on stage and she was recruiting. Young women to be models will little tomboy but there was something about this woman in what she talked about how you could be on board. And i became her number one preteen model and i got all the jobs and lord knows i needed the jocks because i got free clothes. Got free shoes. Because we didn't we couldn't afford those. My parents have gotten divorced. And we i. We did not have lunch money. I don't know how else to explain it. But that's how bad it was so home. I mean you know Onions in ketchup sandwiches. A gourmet meal back. Then it was. It was a struggle. But you can overcome. Anything is what i learned there. And you you can purser via now. When it comes to finance a didn't have lunch money. My mother would go to my dad's he worked for bell helicopter. My stepfather get his track and put it in the bank and it was barely paycheck to. I mean we barely had any just to support these kids so we all started working pretty early. I got a job at fifteen years old in montgomery ward in my parents had to sign off on it. Yes at fifteen. That's definitely underage. So you most definitely would have had your parents have to sign. And how did they feel about you working. Oh no they needed us to array. Was you know. I still remember it to this day. Though because back then it was. Seven floors is huge warehouse. And you had to go get a physical and you had. I mean go through this whole process of being able to work. But i was so thrilled because i knew how much money i made as preteen like i'll be free closed. I thought i was going to be rich. Little did i know can be paid seventy five cents an hour. So i wasn't exactly rich and i had a steady income and i had a company that wanted to put me on a fast track for career. i got on this fast track. I was promoted as a buyer. The youngest fire they ever had to kansas city. Double my income. it was. Oh now. I really thought it was rich crazy. I thought i was rich. They double my income. They had such a deal. But while i was there i i have such a big family in so many friends that i was like. I'm gonna have all this free time on my hands as thriving enough thirty five into overland park. I see this junior college over here. I thought you know what. I just double my income. I'm going to make a lot of money. So i'd better learn how to manage it so i decided to take these two courses not credited or anything but they got me on the track and it was simply accounting one. I loved it so much. I went and got a campaign to and it really taught me about how to budget how to pay cash for things. Why it's so important taught me about interest. Rates taught me about how to read a balance sheet into this day when people ask me retort. How can you started three businesses and all three of them were successful when most people start one in what how many out of five four out of five ceo in the first three years or something and i said because i know how to read a balance sheet and i know how to watch the money when we earn money and that and we don't have any. We don't have a good example. We don't know how to say we don't know how to invest. We don't know what do we do. We spend it sure we do. We're gonna finish so. I had a great car. I had a great of our great clothes i got. I went out all the time. I was having a great time and i realized if this is may. There's a lot of other people out there and i started learning so much about finance. I mean i have girlfriends to this day that go you got. I still don't get it. How can you be so successful. Who would have thought and is like in it is true. I i when you find your niche are you. You find your passion you change a life and it's i just enjoyed so much sharing with other people what i was learning and how just to say and i started off helping people say like twenty five dollars a week hundred dollars a month for people to this day. That will email me victoria. Twenty five years ago. Had you not got me started in this just saving that little bit every single week and increased it and look now i can retire so it's really pretty. I mean it's a really important job that we do. And i just laid. If you have fun doing it then people are going to. you know. they're going to grasp. What were you teaching them. So i really taught myself in in learn from the best people. I've you know you search out the best people in i call it the minefield. If you wanna get from one side. And i talked about this in my book. If you wanna get from one side to the other side sleep in a minefield what do you do you follow somebody else. It's already done it and got to the other sites like once you do that now you can. I call it bump it up a notch. You can make little tweaks to a template or a process in. That's great but you have to. I follow someone that you respect. And i'm all about credibility i who are you listening to you. I gotta find out who you're listening to and you listen in follow people that have been successful in what it is you wanna do. And the beauty of it is when you you learn more and more and what you learn as a female. Did you know that ninety percent of us. Ninety percent of women are going to manage their finances themselves by the sales for themselves or for them and their children. Some point in their life the average female divorces or loses hispasat age fifty. Two so i mean it stands to reason we must understand how to manage money and the the best news is so do you know women. Statistically women are better investors than men. Some studies show that we earn one point five or three percent on the study. More than men consists is bet. I love you asking that because women are smart. First of all women hiring adviser number one women you know discuss design a plan create a plan with their advisor and they stick to it. Were men have a tendency to their emotional and if the market goes on their way way way you've said men are emotional. Wow mitt their money honey. Uh-huh in they don't they don't discipline decisions. They make emotional women. We're supposed to be the emotional ones. No i don't think we're emotional. I just think we're passionate. We're passionate and i say women and we all saw only clients that i take on. They wanna be good stores. Every time i speak to any group. Or i'm speaking to a new potential new client to take on. I say this. I mean we have a process that we go through but i always say start with the credibility and the reason that we're here is to learn something new fran mendy frame with you today in have fun doing it in if you can do those three things than we. We spend our time well because in my office they mike staff knows and i've got the best. I got an eighteen for sure but we don't waste time. We don't waste money and we don't waste opportunity in that order because time you cannot get back you can create. You can create more opportunity right you going you can create. There's all these things we can create times. Not one of so. I'm very particular about where i spend my time. And i wanna spend time with people. And i tell them flat out. People who want to be good stewards. That means they wanna know victoria. Tell me what to do and just like we discussed earlier. It's we're all spending saving were investing. We're doing something with money all the time. Just don't get it backwards in. I'm one of those people. My clients are all gabor's philanthropist. They get very well and often in a lot. But you have to put it in order in this goes contrary to muslaha advisors. I know that but it is the fact that you have to give i give i. There's just laws of the universe in when you get you are so blessed and there's times what i didn't have two nickels. I'm starting a business. I'm not being paid. But my my employees are being paid my Rid spion paid. I pay all those bills. But i am like no victorious last on the total but you have to give and i remember a young man coming to me to give to go on a mission just swedish young man and he was just asking for twenty five dollars in all. I kept thinking about this. But i've gotta payroll and i've got to do this. I'm not being paid. I didn't do it. And i still to this day through guilty. But it's okay. God bless me like twenty nine thousand times over again. I've made up for the lady in the next time he did he asked me. I don't care. I'm doing this. And and i gave him more at because it was a great mission he was going on and i just i knew i knew the rules. I just wasn't following him. In that instant because i was scared and i believe in you. Take that money and you write a check. You don't ever do it. begrudgingly guide. Love's given with mary hart and you put your hand on that money and you dear lord bless these funds if someone steals for me i have learned to say you know what god. They needed it more than i do. I'm not going to hold a grudge. Bless bless me back for not revenged having the grain ugly monster. But you gotta understand. It's the law. And when you give you're gonna receive so much more. And i've just made that i a policy of mine i've always given. I just remember that. One time. When i didn't do it it may i mean i feel horrible and the young man went on his trip of course but i just felt horrible about it and i know god what a blessed me and made sure that i can still play my bills at all of it would have been taking care of. It was kind of one of those times when you second guess you have to turn it around. And say i'm giving i because i promise you you will be so blessed you give i it. You're still being responsible and you manage your money differently. You just have to look at where it is in today event. It's it's really much much much harder because everybody would these auto autographs. They don't pay attention. I'm it breaks my heart. I know they're getting in trouble. Because you're having things deducted out of your check that may or may not even be getting a service for or a product the benefit of because it's easy. I'm it should be part of a you know a Daily rituals to look at your money. If you don't look at that on a monthly basis and run through it and say you know. Wait a minute. I don't care if it's ten dollars and thirty nine cents. A dollar is a dollar. Well i gotta say speaking of that. There's a ten dollar Auto draft for that gym membership. That i haven't been to in quite a while. You're speaking speaking right to me and she and we all do that and then you start feeling guilty. You know it's like oh gosh. I should And we have to make a decision like okay. If i'm not gonna use this. I mean ten dollars is ten dollars ten dollars a week. Ten dollars a month adds up. So i could take that and if you look at what that would do over a thirty year period. You'd be shocked. You'd be shocked in in. That's why go back to women being so much better at investing studies. Prove it again and again but like you said the reason is is because they follow a process they have a plan and they they don't get off track when we have one day that you know the market goes down six hundred percent or something. There's like okay. It'll be back up five hundred percent tomorrow. They don't panic in a situation. They're very disciplined. Makes me very proud in women. Get confidence when i start sharing this with them. It helps them build confidence that while. I'm doing the right things you know. I sit and talk to young people that are juniors in leadership program and they have become in and again in thirty minutes. I show them how to be a millionaire. And they just like they get their calculators are going for forty dollars a week and i will say to a young lady. That is the most beautiful top whereas you get it. Of course she like. Well thank you gotta dillard's junior department or something really. Can you tell me how much that was gorgeous. And she'll say fifty five sixty five dollars a rayleigh now. Would you rather be a millionaire. Have that particular top and get them to thinking realistically about. I could really do this. Not i want you to give up that top but do i babysit one more night. A week do i. You know take another shift at address store. Do i give out the ten dollar membership and just walk outside. Do what can. I do to get on a really strict but flexible plan so that i can reach my goals and so we sit down and help people do that and i really like doing. I mean real physical things. We're when i'm asked to speak okay. You gotta understand that people are gonna learn something. Because if i'm going to be there we've got task. Something tangible that they can take with them implement that very day. And they're like okay. Detroit red because you do otherwise. It's just somebody talking in yet. Maybe it's inspirational maybe motivational but the minute you leave at workshop life happens so much you have something concrete. yeah absolutely. We talked about influences a minute ago. And i wanna talk about the time. We're in right now. So we're in this crazy time and So the couple things are happening. People are struggling and then we have a lot of families who now find their children with them but we have an opportunity here. I don't know about you. i don't know if there's home equity more but there was a time. There was not marrying when when students mostly girls. 'cause boys had shop but students were being taught how to how to budget how to you know how to handle their money. I mean there was a kind of is abandoned russia. How much did you have. What can you go by. I i love that. And i and i don't know if they do anymore i'm gonna i'm gonna say they probably don't. We have an opportunity now with our children being closer to probably than than ever before to bring a little bit of that money. Management education back in If people are home schooling or even people who are at home schooling. But they're they're you know they're going online and they're doing the school at home. Do you have an opportunity to teach your children. We do have a great opportunity right now. Anna as i had said and i did a lot of video content for youtube back in march april may june particularly mean a lot and it was. Don't miss this opportunity. Don't you don't wanna look back and say well. I had the time right. Dan and i didn't take advantage because that's what so many people do their instead of what i call expanding like opening up. What is it. I can do with this time. That's going to valuable to me instead. People got scared and most people are contracting. What i call it like closing themselves off and i said you know this is the time to go in. Look at all your money look at your finances if you wanna learn a new language. What better time now because you have the time. Don't look back in regret. The fact that i didn't seize that opportunity because it's here for you now. It's a forced opportunity and it's not been fun for any of us. It's been challenging. It's been scary. It has been a making us enforcing us to be more creative. We've all learned so much more about technology than we would ever have ever done before is older generation which would never considering consider doing a meeting on zoom or a webinar. Oh heaven forbid now. The are you kidding. You take people's grandkids away from they're gonna figure out facetime. They're going to figure out zoo. They figured it all out. Because you take those grandbabies away from them and say that they can't see them although for your and that's what they did so now it's like oh we love to do zoom. Yeah let's have remaining on zoom. Let's have a webinar. Yeah just. I'll click that link if i ever shop i mean they are so tech savvy right now It's that's a good thing so when people ask me what good his co. lived you know his inner first time. They asked me like stabbing the heart. Likely kidding. what kind of question is that. But the truth is is that there are going to be some amazing things. Come out of covid as well. There's so many things that we won't know probably for years. What has come out of this companies that are being created so there are people out there taking. I can feel it in the just in the universe. I can feel all. That's going on. But i also feel that contraction and the fact that some people are truly very scared and they are lost it what to do and an innocent difficult time for for us but you can have a choice. I really do believe you can either be scared and you can be. I mean there's nothing wrong with being knowledgeable in concert organ scarier but you also have to still continue to be joyful and having joy in your life is a decision you make so for people who are challenged today and i have to say i got an amazing text today from a friend of mine. Who's been looking for a job. And she actually received a job offer today. I mean we were all so excited. And we were congratulating her you know over the text But there are people who are definitely challenged today so In some of them may be listening. So what can they do right now. And that's a great question because you know the rap there and we know. There are the first thing i would suggest in. I did a video. You can go to financial diva on youtube. Search financial data and all these come up their title but it's about expanding. Don't i would've never dreamed i would be in. The financial industry never dreamed. I would be had this high net worth firm that i built over thirty years and have clients that we've had for twenty five years but i was open so my my recommendation to people was instill is. Don't put yourself in a box. This is a great time to look outside. Maybe you maybe the industry you were in. You aren't really that passionate about. Maybe this industry. Maybe this is the time. And i had this exercise in this each challenge i do in its it starts with consequences and accountability. But he goes running into your passion in. You really have to sit down. i say. Get a glass of wine. Get a beverage. Sit down quietly and think about what's your most passionate about because you're always more successful when you're in an industry where you're passionate in like sales we're all selling honey. You're selling every day. I'm so high. Your girlfriend was just telling somebody on twitter just like money that we are selling. Somebody's telling in somebody's fine every single day long in. Its whether you're selling yourself on a new job whether it's you know you're selling your spouse where you wanna go to dinner. You just have to decide who you're going to be. Are you going to be the buyer. Are you to be the seller. And how passionate are you about your service your product. What is it that you're passionate about. And why in who are you to serve. Who were you going to bless. Every i know that. I have the opportunity to wake up every single day knowing that i am making a positive financial impact in people's lives that they can have a thirty years of retirement I know that when i wake up every single day that i can impact. Women's lives in sharing with them and in helping them. Very simply glazed overlooks and all that but how to put a plan together and how to manage their money for themselves and their children because of all the reasons we know women have to sometimes go out of the workforce to raise a child. Take care of a family member husbands. Don't do it oh it. we're the caregivers. So we may not have earned is higher so our social security is going to be less. There's so many factors that up. It's a blessing to me. Be able to share all my experience. The lessons i've learned the skills the relationships resources that i have with women to get them from ages e in a very short period of time. Because i know that's what they want. They want to be good stores to somebody. Give me the secret sauce recipe. My aunt not shirley but an eighty for my graduation when i graduated high school. Guide me berry like a pocket-size nice size bible that red leather. That is still used today to this day and all she marketing in it was about. We have to go back to you. Know i can do all things through christ who strengthens me in all my weaknesses. I go back to that once. She underlined it for me. Put the little tab in it for me so that. That's what. I opened that battle. Best when i saw in. I'm used that so many times. Throughout my life. And i also go back to when i believe god blesses those that have a plan. In addition those without a vision will perish. And i always talk. I mean i put vision is like in quotes and everything you must have a vision in a vision is simply a plan and then you execute that plan and i've used. We've all gone through some really tough times at our lives. They're all different. But we've all done it and if you've lived you're going go through difficult times and when the enemies are there i simply say i go back to simply this is if god is for me who in the world could be against me if god is for me if god is for me who could be against me and tomatoes. Like are you kidding. It's no brainer in. It helps me get through the really difficult times because i choke doubtful when they're going through the of shadow debt. I go look got said. go through. Walk through the valley. He did not say by a ham sandwich and a dr pepper and camp out key dude. Just keep moving and that's a lot of times we get scared. And that's why sanders contracting thing. I i was with a friend of mine and dallas and she. You could tell because of what's going on. She's in the health field. I could just feel her being closed. In and i did this to her. I mean just opened up my arms and Mary expand open up. There's possibilities out there. You cannot allow negative thoughts. You cannot allow them because they will control you. You have to continue discuss back to evan. Mary hart when you give money being joyful even the worst of times you can still find joy in. Sometimes it's tough. I'm not gonna say it's tough. My husband had two strokes last year in twenty nineteen. He failed between august. December almost bled to death like couldn't wait for twenty twenty. Thank you lord hallelujah. Here we are. We got him on the man march. First he's out of a wheelchair. I'm so happy covid. So i said just this last week on my birthday will. The joke was on me. Because i kept telling him nothing could be bad. It's going to be a great year. The jug saw faye no honey. I was just preparing you for this. Does this is gonna be tough. That was nothing compared in. You could go through that. You can go through this. And that's why i to look at it. And i started repeating every single day in writing in videos to my team. Gets you have to some great good is going to come up this in when you believe that in i truly do i've convinced on i believe unexpected income. That's something that everybody should understand. And learn expect unexpected income. But that's so true. That's so true you you know that happened. You picked up your mail. They're all bills. And then you get a check in. You're like where's this check from iran. That has happened. And you don't get but that's best telling you this is true gonna tell you something. That's going to shock you. I've only told what the person is exclusive. This is truly suissa. So i have said this so i told her has unexpected unexpected income. So two weeks go by yourself that ensure enough in the mail is seventeen hundred dollars now in in back in the day that would be like over six thousand right now. I told you so any. He's always said she has the weirdest but listen. They worked for her so he says you think she's kidding when she puts her hand on bills when she writes those checks and she's displeased god blessed funds. You know if. I give him to my church. Please help those in need. Make sure my church is using these wisely to help multiples yet. And i do that and you should do that. You have to tell your money what you want it to do. Okay diva now. You're going okay. She is revealed way too much information. Here no no. This has great. Okay i wanna make people. I want to make sure people know where to find you. So you mentioned you mentioned several videos on youtube financial diva prince okay. Great financial data just search financial data and then click notification. Subscribe and. you'll get the the newest ones and do it now. I just do a tip a week unless something really important happens like when i was doing all the ppe's when all the everybody wants to know. So i was out there every day given updated information to help small business owners. You can find me on financial. Diva dot com. There's a website chapel dot com instagram face. We're we're literally everywhere. While all right well thank you so much for sharing your time with us in just letting us know I learned how to handle our money. And i love it. I love it. Talk to your money and in pray over that money. I mean that's something you don't think about each troop in in. Sometimes i've gotten off track and i forget Kinda angry i had this bill or something is wrong use. Stop it and get bit get back on track. But that's why. I feel so blessed that i learned some of these things and they actually come true. Because you do get what you asked for. I teach women about having champions champions are so critical and this is not your girlfriend. That collagen is all emotional. End dumps all her stuff on you and then goes away now. These are people that support encourage motivate and. Actually ask you how you doing. What's going on in your world housework. They truly care in listen. Those are your true champions. They don't have to be family members. They don't have to be your best friend doesn't mean you to get rid of those brands. You just keep them at a big distance like they're over here. Because i need all the positive energy that i can have in a day to be the best version of me that i can be. So champions are critical. I teach them about celebrating. How important celebrating. Little winston successes are because success breeds success. Yeah that's so important. Like i said just today. We got the tax. She got the job. And we're just it's like we're at a big party together. We're all celebrating because it was a wonderful accomplishment and we need to support each other exact for example. Yeah for sure for sure will victoria. Thank you so much. This has been great great tips. I encourage everybody to go find you. Watch your youtube videos and go to your website. Financial david dot com and Weapon and sign up for my e sales training. It's so much fun. Okay all right. And i see the finish up by. See behind you there. Anything is possible. Your sign that is. That was a gift given to me last week. By longtime friend and champion she is. She's in my new book. I wrote a new book how to outsell all the boys. That's at the publisher right now. But she gave me that and she was so proud of it. She's like this is our friend. Anything is possible. So thank you that is so our takeaways are. Don't fear expand don't contract pray over your money yes unexpected in unexpected income and celebrate job as a little wins right about this. You know money comes to me easily and effortlessly affirmation. Yeah there you go. Well thank you so much for being here. I know you're given a lot of encouragement and knowledge to our audience. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me delightful. Wow that was some really great advice. I love her homespun and now available stories. I love the way she can tell a story. Wasn't she great. So thank you for listening. This has been positively joy. You can listen to more episodes at positively joy dot com get more encouragement and also sign up for our teachable. Which is free on five ways to choose joy like we toria said. It is a choice and we wholeheartedly believe that here at the podcast. So we appreciate you. Thanks for being here and farewell for now.

shirley fitzgerald edmond victoria yvette walker chapel would financial service costa costa edmond oklahoma shirley fort worth texas victoria wood oklahoma fran mendy mike staff
17 | INTERVIEW 5: Mary Gabriel

Unobscured

1:46:35 hr | 1 year ago

17 | INTERVIEW 5: Mary Gabriel

"Welcomed on obscured production of iheartradio and Aaron McKie. Today's guest interview who is author and journalist. Mary Gabriel her books have been finalists for the Pulitzer Prize the National Book Award and the National Book Critics Circle Award for nearly two decades. She worked in Washington and London as an editor for Reuters. Her biography of Victoria woodhull. Notorious Victoria isn't the only book that set Mary. Gabriel into the past though. She also wrote a dual biography. On Karl and Jenny Marks and win researcher. Carl Nellis talked with Mary. They explored beyond the life of Victoria would holes radical comrades adds to discuss how Mrs Satan's political career fits into the bigger picture is a fascinating interview and I can't wait to share it with you so without further ado. Here's Mary. Gabriel this is the unexcused interview series for season two. I'm Aaron Minke. uh-huh uh a spiritual issue no I I think. From our point of view you think of someone raising tables and sitting in a darkened room with a group of people communing with the dead and that was part of it but really interestingly Spiritual th century was a way for people who didn't have a political or social voice I e women to have one and So that's in the case of Victoria. Woodhall that that's what spiritual spiritualism was for her and what that meant was that she she could almost act as a therapist or any of the spiritualist healers who were traveling around. The country almost acted as spiritualists. Sorry as as therapists to the working working class or the poor or the the firm farmworker who they would roll up in a caravan and say you know. Would you like to speak to your dead mother well. Everyone wants to talk to their dead mother about the problems. They're currently having in so in the course of that dialogue someone like Victoria would hear the concerns of these people. Aw and then not necessarily having tapped into the dead mother's ideas are I the dead mother's advice but she herself within off her own advice would which would be based on her on experience which was troubled but also based on the people she she'd met along the way so so basically spiritualism was was a big communications network not necessarily with people from the beyond but very much among a disparate crowd within the United States eight. I'm at that time and it is really. It was probably one of the colonels or one of those seeds for the entire. US Women's rights movement because these women started talking among themselves about themselves and discover that they all sort of had similar malar problems and that they'll similar problems were all based in in repressive or oppressive. Social Situations I e marriage So you've already touched on this a little bit but When's people were coming to a sounds? What kinds of questions were they asking her? What were they looking for to get out of it There are all kinds varieties there. But what are the things that you really picked up on his. You read these documents in the periodical and the things that were recording spiritualist experiences. Yeah it was really avenue. There are two kinds. They were the same as in in spiritualism had the bart literally the Barnum and Bailey kind of aspect where you had a woman or a woman with a group of people in a room and they'd hear tapping and and the tapping would indicate communication with the spirit. You Know Spirit with a bizarre named Mike Mr Split Foot was one and and he would offer advice on you know are are dead family members. Happy now are they. Are they still with you. Do they approve of what you're you're doing but the kind of spiritualism that a woman like Victoria would hold practice as she traveled around the country. Hearing People's troubles was a much more basic kind of almost like a advice. Columnists that you might have in a newspaper today. You know she she would set up in a hotel. Oh tell. And she didn't have seances per se. She had one and one one on one encounters with people who had come in with maybe physical maladies or Problems in their marriage problems with their children's financial problems. You know just the basic things that that person would go to a priest aura. A A therapist or a You know a politician if they so dared and and and you know described their situation and ask for help. These people knew Victoria wasn't equipped to provide them with actual help but in many cases it was just enough for just to have someone to listen to what they had to say. And that in itself was empowering both for them and for her and for spirituous That kind of conversation nation. You can imagine the the experience that they would. After a few years the experience they would build you know and the the kind of advice that they could then offer and how it became very social and very political because they knew so many people were suffering from the same problems and so It was very much the kind of thing that you see in films where people go in and expect miracles and have apparitions appear and you know a lot of kind of smoke and mirrors literally. I was crystal balls etc but but there was also a very basic very human and a very very warm and generous spirit Behind the kind of spirituals and that woodhall practice and that was one person helping another person now the reason it was called spiritualism and the reason why a woman would have to resort to something as as kind of outlandish as that rather than just say. Tell me what your problems albums are. And I'll tell you what I think was because women weren't supposed to have a political voice or a social voice. They weren't supposed to extend themselves to that extent. And and for a woman to set up a shop darkened room in a hotel and have strangers come in and give her a dollar and then she would offer advice if she said at that advice was coming from her. Without the guidance of a spirit it would really be It would be outrageous. It would be it would be it would be more than society could bear because that was not the role but woman but if she said I'm hearing the voices you know from your dead mother and she's telling me to tell you you know. Your husband is a drunk. You have to leave him. It's good for the children is good for you then. Society could could a sanction that and the woman who was hearing the advice could then say you know okay and act on it if she wished to so. It's really interesting. Isn't it that it was it was kind of charade that it was allowed to play out that a woman like Victoria could give advice. Who just about everybody knew was giving advice based on her own experience As woman to woman but they but people would pretend that this voice was that does it for this advice was coming from the you know another world and other another the kind of As a spirit world beyond one that we could see and that this charade was laid to play was allowed to play out so that she could have a voice in that women could hear it so it it was a fascinating period and one of the other you mentioned The priesthood and some of the roles that traditional religious legis figures would would play in this kind of Almost therapeutic kind of mode for for people who would come but one of the other kind of movements since that was happening at the time and leading up to the eighteen forties was the practice of Animal Magnetism mesmerized them some of those Discourses that were considered to be kind of horizons of of science about mind and the person that also were were practiced and often demonstrated publicly publicly in a kind of a therapeutic mode. Can you talk a little bit about how those practices set up a foundation for what became spiritualism. Yeah that's very interesting because it was one of the fascinating fascinating aspects of what you're talking about and also the spiritualism I was speaking with Victoria's at this all occurred in an in a climate of technological and industrial advancement in change. You know. Suddenly you know trains were speeding through virgin countryside at unheard of speeds and a telegraph could be sent from one place to another. You know without anyone actually physically carrying it and it was It was a time when people didn't quite understand what was happening to them that the society and the the the industry and the manufacturing in the way of life was changing so radically that people sought explanations for that through either through either spiritualism or through the sort of laying on of hands and things that you describe and and so one actually was a physical manifestation of these these social and industrial changes and the technological changes occurring which was the laying on hands mesmerized him and the other was just actually helping people cope with the changes the massive changes in their lives and one of the reasons why both of those were more readily accepted than perhaps they would have been thirty years thirty years previously. Who because because people could see in their everyday lives changes massive changes that that amounted his speed and ways of communication that had never existed existed before in? And so that could happen. Then maybe it was actually possible for for people to heal by just touching you or for someone to give advice from a figure who existed tested outside a realm you could see And one of the technologies that was so crucial to the spread of of all. These ideas was The explosion of cheap fast printing. And there's all these periodicals that just kind of a burst onto the scene and they were crucial to to mesmerizing to those scientists. But also to spiritualism. Can you talk a little bit about the role that periodical is is played in American life. in in the middle of the nineteenth century but a kind of a cross that period. Yeah it was really fascinating and it. It wasn't just in the United States. It was in Europe as well. Suddenly you know trains would could carry periodicals from one place to another so you can carry news so you could. You could assemble a periodical in Dayton Ohio. That would have news from New York City or news from London or news from Cologne Germany. And it wouldn't be that old. Did you know it might be two weeks old and People were learning. Their horizons were literally expanding in every organization. Every political party Every group the farmers groups the coal group coal miners. Everyone had a periodical so it was almost I guess a little bit. I I mean I suppose it's a little bit like our blogs fear now that there were there was a new way of communicating through technology and through the printed page. That allowed allowed people to speak to each other and learn about each other and learn about what was happening in the world much more quickly than they ever had before and it was during the civil the war in fact in the United States. The the Newspapers we're an absolutely crucial way for you know the country to stay as the country was splitting physically. You know through war. It was actually kind of the thread that was keeping it. Together was the exchange of newspapers and that information and also into the seventies when when out into the eighteen seventies when the kind kind of later industrialization occurred when there were miss more serious class divisions and when the labor market in the labor union movement was heating up the role of newspapers in those radicalization of workers was immense and You know people joke Europeans would come to the United States and joke that if if you were a prisoner in being held in jail in New York City you may not have anything you may not have food you may not have water. You may not have proper clothing but every morning you'll have have your newspaper. It was considered an absolutely essential tool to being alive in the nineteenth century. which is a you know kind of fun? Considering that newspapers in our world are are going away of well the the normal telephone the dial telephone. Right as I've been as a bit spending time making aching this podcast. I haven't been able to avoid making these connections between periodical then and kind of podcasts. Now with the way that they're growing in and like you said everyone one is starting one every interest group every political party or yeah So as you have have researched researched and written you you've worked in journalism for for a long long time You've at times turned to books and you've written a book on Victoria Woodhull Hole. Which I'm so glad we're going to be talking about today? You've also in books on the cone sisters On Karl Marx and his wife Jenny which was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize the National Book Award The National Book Critics Circle Award And recently published a book on the Ninth Street Women before we really dive into. Victoria's story I I love to hear. Is there kind of the comments. Read between the kinds of people that you take the subjects of your books. I think what I try to do is I take periods of history That most people would say have been written about to death. You know for example Was Karl Marx. You know I remember when I said I wanted to do book on him. Neighbor alright was living in Italy at the time and an old older British woman said to me. You know who on earth you know. Why on Earth do we need? Another book curl marks the point. Is that the the parts of history that have been told so far that have been told and retold actually are usually only half the story. It's sort of the man's point of view that's the it's been the man's story story so what I try to do is go into areas where Luckily you know for a writer a researcher today. The the numbers numbers of neglected women out there in history are vast and so this there are many many stories to be told and so as Victoria. I tried to look at the nineteenth century Through her her perspective I mean how many people know growing up in the United States. How many people learn that? A woman actually ran for president in eighteen. Seventy two you know. She was written out of history so I tried to resurrect her place. Her where she belonged was a cone. Sisters They were among the most important modern art collectors in the world at the turn of the century at the beginning of the nineteenth century. I'm sorry the beginning of the twentieth century and their story was written out of history because of a personal Pique When Alice Toko wrote the story of Gertrude Stein? Or I'm sorry when Curtis wrote the story of Alice veto close but The concerts were written out of history because collecting became something thing. That men did women shopped for paintings but men collected them. And so I wanted to show what the coens down which was build one of the major Matisse Jason collections in the world. Not just in the United States They were these two eccentric Victorian Sisters And then with marks mark story has been told primarily as a story of a man from his neck up in other words the brain of Marx And I wanted to describe the man marks end to do that. I thought it was best to put him in the environment of his family with his wife and children and so I started by thinking I would tell just their story but you know marks was the elephant in the room and I needed to tell his story if I could describe their story and so and then with the Ninth Street. Women is the story of five abstract expressionist women painters and and and again you know that. The biggest revolution in American art history occurred in the forties and fifties in New York and that has been the story of a handful full of men when in fact it was teaming group of people and among them were some really important women who with out without home the movement. When wouldn't have occurred so when I try to do is go back into history and and kind of if if we've seen how you fill the cup we've got half the cup so far let's get the rest of the couplets fill it up and that's usually the story of women so that's kind of the thread that runs through all of these books So let's on that. Let's dive in to Victoria Would whole story and just start with How would you answer the question? Who Was Victoria? woodhull Victoria Woodhall was really really one of the bravest American women to surface In the nineteenth century and one of the women who we know least about who studied the least she was the product of a Ohio. Family fairly dirt poor. Her father was a Petty Criminal Her mother was probably certifiably insane and had children. Every two years is for a twenty year period in Victoria was her sixth daughter. And the story was one you know sort of that's been it could've been repeated throughout the country by hundreds of thousands of families Struggling to make ends meet No true prospects. No property property. They didn't own any property they had no future in. This child Victoria through a vivid imagination. Incredible drive created one. She created her own opportunity and she carried this family with her. And so what she did was go from absolutely zero on I talk about the show where she was born which was a shack on the side of a hill and a small town in Ohio. She went from there to do a series of I that were truly remarkable. She was the first woman to have a Wall Street brokerage firm. She was the first woman to address a congressional committee in Washington. She was the first woman to Are Run for president and she was completely neglected in historically because she was literally too hot to handle. She was so far advanced of her time she would still be considered radical today she would kind of fit more comfortably in the one thousand nine hundred seventy s feminist period than she did in the nineteenth century so Victoria would hold quite quite simply someone we should all know about because the issue she spoke to and about in those days or ones. We're still Indiana with today So in that early life that you've started to touch on what kind of a religious background background or upbringing did she have in this struggling family. Yeah her her mother was a religious zealot and I would imagine based on where they were in Ohio. Oh I could never pin down. What exactly congregation? They were hard of but it would have been some sort of no-doubt Protestant probably Lutheran and Tradition and but it was bordered but it bordered always on the always spiritualism not that her mother ever practice spiritualism those were she did later in life but when when victory was growing up although the mother always thought she commune with spirits and so that's where Victoria got that idea. Basically the mother would Go out and kind of have hallucinations. and you know shout to the sky is her problems about her husband and called her. You know said what she was doing was speaking to two two spirits from another world are dead relatives or her dead. Children and Victoria absorbed that idea but so that the the family was not traditionally religious. It was very eccentric clan as far as that goes but but Victoria absorbs those ideas ideas and and built on them and she had a real flair for drama so she would regale the the local children in the town with with her ability to speak to spirits and orate and profound matters and then as I describing the book when she when her Kurt Krause started getting restless she would change the subject and start talking about cowboys and Indians. She in other words she she always knew how to play to the crowd But the family was mainly Claflin. Her father was a notorious thief. Arsonist e- called himself a lawyer but his main scene His main connection to the law was breaking it and they were always they. From the time she was a little girl they would have to escape. The law for various various reasons and usually buck was behind whatever scheme was illegal and whatever scheme for some to leave so I wouldn't say that Victoria was ever a religious person in the traditional sense as in pious. But she had a great respect for surprisingly growing up with the father she she did in the household she did. She had very great respect for morality which is also very ironic because later in life would did her in was charges of immorality MHM morality. But she had this real From the time she was a young girl she had a very strong sense of justice. And that's what actually was the start of her political life is some of your work has been kind of on transatlantic connections between radical groups. And when Victoria is ten we come to the year eighteen forty eight which his spiritualism Look at for for what happened in Hides Vol New York with the Fox sisters but it's a year of ferment across nations borders oceans Can you talk a little bit about transatlantic context for eighteen forty eight. What was going on in Europe in that year? What else was going on in the United States Yeah eighteen forty eight. It was one of those years in history where it would be difficult to find a place on the planet That that's something major wasn't happening. A Europe was on fire. It was the only Eighteen forty eight was a movement. Called springtime of the people and the People in Europe actually revolted against their kings their governments and It was the first and only european-wide revolt of the people against their rulers and this was the result result of again. This idea that society was changing fundamentally under People's feet and yet the rulers the kings couldn't see that they couldn't or didn't want to seize see chose not to see if they were happy enough to fill their coffers with the proceeds of industrialization but they didn't want to make the social changes that were required they didn't to allow business people into government for example in order to legislate What the terms industrialists needed to to to to expand to do cross-border trade And in in the United States part of the background to this what would become the civil war the in Twelve years after was was this notion that the the tensions between the agrarian south and the industrial north and that that they're they're the inability to reconcile what was an the old way of living in a new way of living. You know the obvious path of the future and so in eighteen forty eight the people who are caught in the middle of this The everyday folks you know the the farmers Z.. Small Trades people. The people who were forced off their land and moved into cities were being buffeted by forces that were so much greater than them in Europe they fled to the cities and started filling. You know tenements and factories with with their work but in the United States that sort of development hadn't really occurred yet and so We didn't have that kind of mass movement but but definitely there was an earthquake happening under people's feet. A societal change that was was was so profound that people sought relief and answers and shelter literally enlarge tense At the front of which was usually a preacher shouting about you know. Don't worry about this life. The next one's going to be better and so that was a the very top down. That was a very patriarchal kind of response to the changes in society Shoot through more traditional religion and through these Itinerant preachers where the spiritualist came in was This sort of one on one woman to woman much more domestic kind of response to the changes changes and in a way. I think you know there was this show. There was the weekly show in the tents with the preachers and the songs and You know Falling lying down and thrashing around but the the actual what spiritualists cut offer was was a much deeper and much more immediate sort of help you know an actual earthly help Whereas the preachers could promise you know something a pie in the sky and the the Fox sisters in New York where a phenomenon al-anon that they were part of the Barnum and Bailey tradition that I described earlier they were they were able to hear A A spirit in a house. They lived in a house where I think it was a traveling salesman had been murdered. And so they could they. They said that they could hear spirits. And and they're the the spirit would tap on the table and this started they got the publicity around them was so widespread that they started sort of phenomenon that appeared in every state in the country was multiple so-called Fox sisters hearing tapping and it was really just a way for poor families to make money they charge a dollar cholera visit. and which was a huge amount of money in those days and it was also a way to To eventually it was also a way for this sort of spiritualism to develop this the kind of therapeutic spiritualism and so there was the the Barnum and Bailey Fox sisters tapping the very kind of dramatic communication with dazzling spirits. And then the offshoot of that much more practical the much more practical development that arose out of that was the spiritualism that Victoria woodhall practice. Her father was thrilled old about the when he learned about the Fox's because he had two daughters Victoria and her younger sister Tammy who Tennessee who but Claflin offline decided. Great you know they. They can both commune with spirits. There's no problem about that I can set them up in a hotel charge dollar a dollar a visit and they can you know make miracles in his. His advice to Victoria was be a good listener child. and which is what she did. She started when she was. I think. Thirteen and And started entertaining adults listening to adults problems and by the time she was fifteen she was an expert on what ailed Mostly women who came to hear her and and so so that's really There were sort of two levels of Two levels of religious experiences in and the revival movement and spiritualism that was available and widespread through mostly the middle of the United States through the middle of that century but eighteen forty eight was really the pivotal year because it was when the Fox sisters emerged. It was also. When the women's Women's rights movement emerged in Seneca Falls New York also upstate New York and that was where women again started talking to each other and and deciding that it wasn't just a matter of getting the vote that there needed to be a fundamental declaration of rights for women Drawn up and and and hopefully decimated in a hopefully brought to the attention of Congress so that women could once and for all Have the rights equal to men in this country so it was a year that of profound change and and fascinating and revolutionary and you can see exactly why it happened because the plates under society were shifting and the fallout was going to be enormous both socially and politically and people had to go somewhere to look for answers and so as they always did is Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people and so they sought solace in religion. And as you just said Victoria it kind of took part in both aspects of spiritualism. There were times when she was working. Especially under buck in the kind of spectacle of spiritualism But she also also over the course of her life recorded that she heard from the spirits and they guided her and they directed her. Can you talk a little bit about that more. Private side of Victoria's belief in spirit communication Was it real was a true. Did she really believe she was hearing from spirits. And how did that influence her decision. who were they? What did they say to her those kinds of things? I think she really did believe it. You Know I. I've thought about that. And she was very smart woman woman but she also had I guess it was. I mean who knows. Maybe she did. You know I you know. Aw My instinct is that she didn't but she really believes she did and I think it stemmed from a as I said her mother's experiences with speaking to the spirit world but also I think it was just a way of retreating. Her home life was so utterly dysfunctional father was violent. Her mother was insane. Vein were children crawling out of every covered They had no money and I think when she was a young girl to escape she would sometimes try to have conversations with two of her sisters who had died As children and you can see where that would happen. I mean she. I had nowhere to go and no one to talk to you. So she sought solace in in what she thought was a conversation with dead people And then when she it different times of her life she spoke she different kinds of spirits and one time She was in San Francisco. She eventually married a fellow who I'll describe later but she needed to decide whether she should go back to Ohio or stay in San Francisco which was a very difficult place to her. To live in her situation was extremely remotely dangerous and trying and Batori. It felt that she heard her sister. Tennie call her across those miles and speak to her and spirit for him and say come home and so she followed that advice and then the most famous case was when Victoria was at her. Wit's end you you know. She was. She'd been traveling around. After the civil war through the United States giving advice seeing the horrors the absolute devastation of what was left in. Its wake and she knew she needed to do something because by this time. She has completely politicized and she thought she heard the spirit of the Greek Order Demosthenes and she said that he spoke to her and gave her not just the the idea. Go to New York but an address where she should go to a New Yorker Pacific House on Great Jones Street and Victoria did and and she said when she arrived. You know The House was ready waiting for her so at various points in her life. You know really crucial point. Some some might say points of breakdown. She thought she was speaking to the spirit world. You know maybe she thought she was. Whatever happened helped her get to the next place and helped her survive and as S.? She never found herself. Despite in a life that was difficult in the extreme that lasts a long time She never got to the point that she gave up. You know. She lost her her her strength or she gave into some kind of collapse and so it could be that she believes that these spirits helped her through Can Can I say one thing I want to go back to The whole idea of does the that the purpose of religion in kind of a greater greater people's Apple's lives in the beginning of drinking century. Okay the idea that religion was a was a safe place for people to have difficult consideration or difficult discuss. Ah discussions is a really fascinating one at this period the beginning of the nineteenth century. Because it wasn't just that it was a place where you could confess. Confess your your sins or confessed your troubles. It was a place where people like Karl Marx. Even you know politicians in great thinkers would would couch their political Nicole discussions because at this time the things they were saying that changes they knew that had to occur in societies in order to make the step to a fully. Industrialized is a fully capitalist world. They couldn't say publicly because they would be against the law. You know they would be treasonous to the King Lee considered treasonous to the king so marks for example had a Had A newspaper in Cologne in mid late thirties early forties eighteen forties that was supposedly ostensibly a discussion of theological article subjects. But anyone who knew the words that he was using our new the language you knew who he was scratched the surface just a little bit and see that what he was talking about was revolution Lucien political revolution having nothing to do with religion in fact quite the contrary so it's fascinating that people from all levels of society used use is religion as kind of an umbrella to either hide under to seek solace from order to us as a mask to to To cover what they were actually eh going after which was massive political change and the two kinds of modes of spiritualism. You talked about all of us. Have that dual nature where there are people who are coming to it for the private The kind of the solace and then there are those who use it as a vehicle for a show to make some cash That kind of thing that's really fascinating Jumping can we jump back into the story of Victoria shortly after her years into her teen years living under But Cleveland's thumb Making money for the family in the way that he demanded She meets canning. Woodhall right can. Can you talk about who he was and how they met and what came of it. Yeah by by the time Victoria was fifteen she had three years of education. So she she was. She was not illiterate which is interesting. I'm not quite sure who taught her how to read but She had had no formal education. She'd been living in the household household that I've described with the father and abusive father and insane mother and she was looking for a way out. While traditionally in many societies to this day the easiest ticket out of a dysfunctional family is marriage. And that's what happened. Caning woodhall was a supposedly a medical doctor who rolled into Mount Gilead Ohio where Victoria was living with her family and set up a practice in Victoria. Was Ill and went to see him. And That's a caning. Would hole was in his early thirties. In Victoria was fifteen and he started wooing her and told her that he was related to the mayor of New York City and was a relative of a judge in New York and that he was a practicing doctor and in other words he was everything. Torey woodhall wasn't in fact. Everything Victoria Toria woodhall had dreamed of and he was an escape hatch from the life she lived and so when she was fifteen and she was just had just turned fifteen he he was in. I think he was thirty two at the time they married and Victoria soon discovered that the bill of goods he sold her was a a a web of lies. She he was not a practicing or in any way qualified doctor. He didn't had never met the mayor of New York. He wasn't a relative of the judge what he was was a philandering drunk and she was settled to him because law. The Time said that when a woman married a man she became his property. Pretty so Victoria had no way out and so she went from the household of Claflin which she'd been supporting she. Antennae by their spiritualist endeavors to the household of a thirty year old drunk. Who is now her husband who would be her master for life and at the age of fifteen eighteen? That must have been quite a cruel awakening. Will it only got worse. Because within a year she was pregnant and gave birth to a son. Who is mentally retarded in Victoria? That was the moment that was the seed of the Victoria. Woodhall who ran for president in eighteen. Seventy two That marriage in that birth taught taught that young girl that uneducated young girl that there was something drastically wrong with a system that would sanction that marriage and that would not teach. Teach her what she needed to know about taking care of her body and insurance in order to ensure that the child she gave birth to a healthy one so victorious Torius story with caning sort of went downhill from there and she as she had with her family and in fact with her family toll largely the two of them sat on the road. Continuing her her spiritualist Counseling and you can imagine with that experience how much richer the advice she would have given given. The women she met on the road would have been Victoria. Came became an expert at many things and she was tremendous many things but I think probably if we had had a tape off of the conversation she had with the clients she can who were consulted her as a spiritualist it would have been fascinating. You know she would have been You know a therapist of You know of the highest calibre she. She was empathetic in the extreme. She was loving. She was warm. She was exceedingly intelligent and and I think it would have been. I wish I had always hoped that there would have been at least one transcript somewhere that existed of a conversation conversation between Victoria woodhall one of the people she can who consulted her Now after she married King They she's separated from her family the two that she they moved to Chicago she in canning. And that's where she has Byron that that child that first child And then from Chicago to San Francisco and you describe that so evocatively rockabilly in your book. Can you talk about and you mentioned this earlier. Why San Francisco was such a dangerous place for someone like Victoria at the time What was going on in in that city? which wasn't even quite a city yet? that made it a place I the Victoria would go and then at a place that she would leave. You know. It's amazing amazing San Francisco. It was another eighteen forty eight Moment gold was discovered in San Francisco in California and people flocked from all over the world they rushed to California to get in on it and the first wave of people who went because it was such an unknown where men largely men But Victoria soon joined them in. Her decision was based simply it was very pragmatic. She couldn't continue as a spiritualist ritualised and make the kind of money she needed to support caning Byron and her entire family and in fact by this point she wanted to get rid of her family because buck had had some more run INS with the law and and Victoria was old enough now to realize that he was a scoundrel and always would be so she broke away and went to the one one place that promised possibly the hope that caning could in fact resurrect some kind of medical career in a in a town like San Francisco which was barely discernible as a town. I mean it was. It was just beginning to have cobblestone streets it was a place where I think that the ratio of men was ten to one ten men to one woman. It was lawless. It was The main main motivation for people there was a self enrichment. That was the only thing that drove them. That and pleasure and so into this was into this came sixteen eighteen year old. A Toria woodhall. Her Child Her one year old child and this drunken loud she carried around with her husband and she once again you know she did the best she could. She went door to door trying to find employment because caning with so many bars in town. there was one area called the barbary coast which ages where It's most notorious early. Early claim to fame was where the topless waitress was born so caning. This was irresistible to him. He had ad bars and he had women and so he was a happy man. Victoria Got To work in order to support them and so she went door to door I worked as a cigar girl for a little awhile and the story is that the proprietor told her she was to find to do that kind of work which is essentially no doubt probably some kind of form of prostitution and so Victoria then found job sewing for an actress. And the actress said you know. Why don't you go on the stage? which is what Victoria did now? She was quite dramatist. But I don't know if she would have been a very good actress because I don't think she could have memorized people's lines. I think she was too much of her own personality. And so so at a certain point though she was in several productions and said she made money that was when she heard the call from Tanny to come back home and it could have just been and that San Francisco on the life. There was overwhelming. You know it was. She was a small town girl from Ohio on though she'd lived in Chicago which was one of the major cities in the United States She he's still was. I don't think prepared at that age. I mean what sixteen year old could have been for what she encountered. They're given the responsibility she had for her for her husband and child and associate heard tanny speaking to her in. Victoria's telling she dropped everything on the stage left. Inner costume grabbed caning woodhall and Byron and took Gov back to Ohio to be with her family and resume her career as a spiritualist and during the civil war years So this is late eighteen fifties if he's in the during the civil war years she antennae are are doing this work as they travel around the border states and the mid West so after a few years years of traveling with the family and sometimes stepping away from them when she says that tennis talents are being prostituted and she's still committing crimes for buck there's a point where Victoria ends up in Saint Louis and she meets James Harvey Blood. Can you describe who James Harvey Blood was and how his relationship with Victoria became so important for both of them so in the years after the sore Victoria was Brown yourself in Saint Louis at one period which was really interesting place for her to be. Because it was kind of a hub of It was a hub of spiritualism but it was also a hub of radicalism awesome. There were a lot of German immigrant and one of the things that happened after eighteen. Forty eight was that a lot of the people who fled the the conflicts in Europe landed in the United States and a lot of German radical. Michael surprisingly went to Saint Louis so Victoria found herself in this kind of Stu of of people who were engaging spiritualism listen but also political reform and she got her first kind of introduction to revolutionary politics there but one one afternoon she was it in the hotel in a room where she'd rented to work at a spiritualist and a civil war veteran named James Harvey Blood walked in and he had had had some he had. He was a decorated soldier. He was a important spiritualists in Saint Louis he was also A very free radical reformer. Though he was part of city government he was elected city auditor of Saint Louis and he sat down because he was having personal problems with his wife no doubt and started confiding in Victoria and I think Victoria saw in this man who physically and and intellectually was so superior to any of the men who are involved in her life as as either her and her husband or her family her her her brothers in law who are all absolute cads She saw Colonel Harvey Blood. Someone who was a wounded veteran. Who had suffered through that war could come out of it and continue to make something of himself and also was questioning questioning in the way she did the basis of society and the fairness of society society in the fairness of marital relations in the fairness of of The class system in the United States. which you know really is something that Americans there's always deny but was part of the actual problems that were were were arising in the mid eighteenth century and really came to to the forefront in the late nineteenth century and James Harvey blood in his discussion with Victoria must have absolutely won her over with whatever he said because by the the end of the session she heard from one of her spirit friends and this time the spirit told her to tell James Harvey blood that she saw that the two of them their future was connected acted and that they would that they would marry now? This was quite an interesting thing to say because he was married and had a child and she was married and had a child in mid century. America saying that kind of thank strange man in a darkened room would only lead to one conclusion. which would be that? You were some kind of prostitute but in fact Victoria was sincere. She saw that she could actually do with this man something she wanted to do. which at this point was actually starting to kind of occuren- was forming in her mind that she wanted to be somehow involved in a social movement that that tried to reform the marital relations which she thought was the actual fundamental problem in society? She thought that all of all social problems were rooted in bad marriages and so blood. Luckily for Victoria who probably blood was probably as as kind kind of swept away by her as she was by him left the room and agreed and was in a very short time. They had each left their re- their respective spouses And when travelling together in a caravan which was basically kind of getting to know each other trip She worked as a spiritualist but it was. It was a completely different. The environment from anything she'd experienced before there was a freedom to their relationship and I an intellectual exchange that she had never had with anyone and I think that this was the moment when Victoria Wood as we came to know her as as a world came to know her was born in actually Blood was her first teacher. She had several several teachers who hurry her through her life but he was probably the most important because he gave her the history of historical knowledge edge and the The political sort of lessens the political science lessons she needed to give words to the sorts of things that she was feeling. That the the inkling she had she knew something was wrong but Victoria didn't have a means of expressing it and blood gave her a way of doing them. And it's that Victoria would halt now in conversation with James Blood Taking a building up a critical vocabulary for the world around her who ends up going to New York as you mentioned earlier. Demosthenes Speaks to her gives her a D.. An address and she she and Tenney and then the Claflin clan following along arrive in New York and it's not very long before they meet. Cornelius the vanderbilt which is a wild turn of events for them. Can you talk about Their life in New York and how they ended up getting hanging with vanderbilt when they arrived in New York you know they. They had no connections there and so and it was as you say the entire Claflin clan followed and and So Victoria antennae. Got To work doing what they did. Best they're they're only sure way of making money which was working as spiritualists. Antennae was an expert. Spread of laying on of hands and Victoria was the spiritualist adviser and But claflin did what he did which was go out and try to recruit clients they. It's it's difficult to imagine someone like Cornelius Vanderbilt. Actually being accessible to someone like Brooklyn but in those days The world was so much smaller and New York was so small and and and actually a guy like vanderbilt though he was financially you know fabulously mostly wealthy. Socially he wasn't that much further up the social scale than than the Claflin kind of the robber barons of the of the late nineteenth century in America America were pretty much How can I say this politely? They were pretty much conman and and really they weren't. They weren't the kind of They didn't have a sort of noble they were they weren't they weren't in aristocracy. Let me say that the the The rubber appearance of America were were were the product of Jacksonian America. Actually they were. They were men. All men who literally pick themselves whether puts with strapped found a way to make some money and by Hooker Crook legal or illegal amassed a fortune and so- buck found Cornelius Vanderbilt new somehow through whatever spirituals grapevine that he believed in spirits and he went to see them because he also knew that vanderbilt had just lost his wife and so he was he was chagrined and lonely and he was in his seventies and buck could offer him. The services of his daughters Victoria to to soothe his mind signed to calm his mind talked to his dead wife who could then communicate with vanderbilt antennae. To Take Care of the old man's physical Loneliness which is what she did. And it's it's absolutely hilarious. When you think about Vanderbilt would have been in his in his seventies tenny was in her early twenties? He's and she was this rambunctious vivacious wonderful creature completely mad full of life up for any adventure and she revived his spirits. Probably just by laying is honor was enough for him and Victoria then spoke to her from this vast experience she had and what she shared with him. Am was not only a belief in spiritualism but he too had a son who he believed was not one hundred percent well as a result of out of the fact that he married his first cousin in so vanderbilt had always blamed himself for his son His sons problems and Victoria could council him him from the position of her own experience with that in that regard and so they became confidants of Cornelius Vanderbilt. One of the most important in wealthiest man in America. And you know one of these incredible American stories that you know. They went literally overnight from being no one in New York to being with in in the circle where all the powerful decisions are made and Vanderbilt began to give them financial advice which led to one. Of Victoria's I I I you know the this Wall Street brokerage firm that she antennae opened yet. Can you describe what the steps were for them. Getting to that point and and maybe how the gold ring and Black Friday of eighteen sixty nine played a role in them becoming successful stockbroker. The the whole cowboy atmosphere of Wall Wall Street. It was an entirely male universe. The idea of a woman being a Wall Street trainer was unthinkable. And I think sometimes I in researching this yes in in in writing about it and reading going back and reading this book again I think for Bandra built may have been just having a good laugh. You know sending the likes of Tenney and Victoria Into that atmosphere you know del. Monaco is which was the the restaurant where they all the traders aid and where there was a stock ticker you know going at all at all hours and to have them. Sitting in a carriage outside the stock exchange exchanging tips with the brokers. It was all great theater but Victoria took it very seriously seriously because she knew this was a way I mean. This was a paradise for her because this was away she could make a lot of money in a very short time. And so- Vanderbilt. I'm started giving them tips. which they couldn't go into the Stock Exchange to actually make the transactions they would have to have a man go in and make it for them in one particular Friday which was In eighteen sixty nine there was a scheme court. Ulysses grant was the president of the United States at the time when he was His administration was exceedingly corrupt and two of the traders Two of the big traders on Wall Street Jim FISK and Jay. Gould had New New every week grant sold a lot of gold On the market to try to you can keep the coffers. The United States government coffers full and it was a weekly sort of release of of precious metals to enrich the government hugh a an acquaintance. They decided to try to convince grant not to sell. And so that would drive up the price of gold and it would become even more precious than it normally was and so Jay Gould. Jim Fisk knowing that this was going to happen could buy up a lot of the gold and have it at a lower price price when the speaker was turned off when when grant was stopped selling well that happened but then grant learned of the scheme in so in a counter move. He opened the flood again in the gold started pouring out onto the market vanderbilt had been privy to all of this and so. He told Ken ten in Victoria. That this was going to happen and so on the day this black Friday and eight sixty nine occurred Victoria was. They're buying up gold. It was dropping in price dropping like a stone and and in that day. She amassed a sizable fortune in fact such a fortune that she could use it to finance. Not only her crazy family and her life in New York but she could start a newspaper newspaper she could start a brokerage firm she could she basically set herself up for for what would become a political career at two years later three years later. And there's also didn't Put us in my mush and see but I realized after I send them to you that we should talk about this Eighteen sixty nine. There's also the women's men's rights convention in Washington. DC and Victoria goes. Can you describe that little bit Victoria was basically a communicator. And she she. She knew the message that the most important message that she had learned to her own experiences in life to her relationship with blood through all of the women and men that she met as a spiritualist through the many years she traveled throughout the United States. was a need for fundamental social reform personal criminal uh-huh reform at a personal level between a husband and a wife that could only occur through legislation if women had equal rights and so- Victoria was scheming with blood. They needed to have some kind of a political platform. They needed to have a proud. Possibly a newspaper. To disseminate this information they needed needed to be aligned with the political party but none of the parties that were available at that time or or had any power at that time would have been radical enough for them and so- Victorian new of the women's Women's rights movement but she had had actually no exchange with them at that point in eighteen sixty nine and so there was a convention of Women in Washington DC in annual convention. And she went there just to get a lay of the land just to see what was happening. I'm she went purely as a spectator and what she saw was a lot of ernest women speaking speaking to each other about each other but having absolutely no impact on Capitol Hill you know on the US Congress which was just a few blocks away from where they were meeting in so Victoria left. That left that That session realizing that these women could talk to each other. You know until will the Until these women could continue talking to each other but would never have any impact because no one was paying attention and Victoria knew she was a great propagandist and she knew that in order to get the attention of Congress she would need to make a huge splash and so she left that meeting not having actually made any connections with the the women's The women's Movement Leaders back to New York is blood and decided to To create a newspaper. What Hong Classrooms weekly because that would be her voice race and in in doing so Victoria announced what could only be reckless? If not crazy that she was going to run for president accident a woman was going to run for president. The woman who had been the fruit Woohoo by this point was a fresh broker on Wall Street a woman who had the backing of Cornelius Vanderbilt. Who had her own newspaper in New York This caught the attention. This was irresistible to the New York. Press and the stories were carried all the way to Washington at at this point. Nobody really paid attention to her but she was deadly earnest and you know whether she thought she was actually going to be. President is another question. I don't think she ever really assume that that would happen happened but she just needed to make a statement that was bold enough and broad enough and loud enough that she could get the attention. Not only of people in New York but the women's movement and hopefully Ask Pete members of Congress. Can you say a little more about Now we're into the eighteen seventies. Can you say a little more about the breadth of the women's movement and its work kind of what was going on there and put it maybe. In conversation with you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation growing labor radicalism. And Yeah and how. These forces were impacting and shaping. Each Other and what Victoria saw in the political landscape when she looked at what was going on in American life. Yeah one of the interesting things that happened at the EVOLA. Victoria's own personal evolution from a spiritual is talking one on one to people To who a woman WHO's out on a platform declaring herself president candidate for president actually mirrored. What was happening? More broadly socially in it's really fascinating because the kind of conversations that were murmured you know before the civil war In the in the in the in the eighteen forties and the kind of revolution had occurred word in eighteen forty eight and that discussions in the political arguments said began to heat up erupted of course in civil war in the United States but afterwards they didn't die down in fact groups coalesced and one of the most powerful groups two of the most powerful groups to call us were were labor unions and this was something that was happening in Europe. Been in fact. Once again we can talk about Karl Marx because he had formed in eighteen sixty four Sunday. Call the international working men's Association and the goal was trade it had become cross-border and corporations and industrialists were working as kind of a party or almost a union among themselves to keep money and power consolidated across borders but at the level of industrialists and unions started. Forming marks was among the most I vocal and prominent supporters of labor unions. And that idea their idea and his idea was if industrialists are going to form associations to protect one another across borders and across industry than workers had to do the same and so He started this international working men's Association which which had sections throughout Europe and the United States and Victoria became part of that and which is such a wonderful. The idea that the idea that Victoria would hold teaming up with Karl Marx Karl Marx knew nothing. Victoria woodhull a Sheila's she was part of the New York section and in fact she was of course head of the New York section section twelve but This was all unbeknownst to marks. Marks had his own he had troubles of his own without dealing was Victoria woodhall but but at the same time the women's movement that was another center of political and social power that was emerging and there were factions within the women's movement movement. There was a the veterans out of eighteen forty eight out of the Seneca falls meeting who were pushing toward the vote. They thought that the way path to women's liberation and to equality in society was through giving women the right to vote. There was another section. That thought that that was much too bold that women shouldn't wouldn't be in the political arena that that was a dirty place for men and that they should that women should more quietly behind the scenes. Try to influence their husbands toward equality. Will Victoria coming out of that. Eighteen sixty nine meeting said neither would do the work. Neither would be good enough or strong enough or would actually touch the the core. Who are the problems? She said that until women actually owned their own bodies actually owned the right to their own bodies There could would be no such thing as women rights and women's rights if they had the vote it wouldn't make any difference as long as they were still the property of a man whether it'd be their father or their husband and so she came in with an an incredibly radical platform and talked about Women in a way that really polite society had never heard and certainly had never been discussed by the women's rights movement. So she was sort of this meeting place through her newspaper as your her work. In New York kind of the place where radical labor and radical women's rights came together. And she was you know became The sort of titular sure head of that and she wasn't Declaring herself a candidate for president On her own she was a member of the equal rights party. Can you talk about the equal rights party and how it relates to the I. W. A. and some of the other things that were going on the equal rights party was We actually just formed out of the Labor movement the spiritualists it was kind of an umbrella party for radical reformers and these were the people who would never fit comfortably in the in the parties as the political parties as he existed and Victoria it once again. They were sort of they were the same constituency constituency. She would have talked to as a spiritualist in the earlier years. They were the working people they were they were the the laborers they they were the people who you know whose bodies filled the tenements. They were the people who were at the losing end of this new industrial system and the the very system that the industrialised and the religious leaders the preachers like Henry Ward Beecher. Who will talk about the people who are the politicians in Washington who who supposedly represented who supposedly? We're looking out for but in fact had absolute disdain for so victorians victorious party gave gave voice to these people on gave power to them and and she said you know I will be your leader and where she thought she was actually going to lead them or where they thought you was gonna lead them was never very clear but it was just enough that someone was speaking for them and speaking so boldly she was a young woman still? She was in her thirties early thirties and she was out on a platform platform. Speaking in the kind of English that That the the working classes could understand speaking of her own travails so she she imparted to them. The idea that she wasn't speaking at them shoes speaking with them and for them and so she she became an extremely powerful figure and and in fact some of the members of the women's movement the old guard Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony who were very actually very Radical in their own way would never have gone as far as Victoria but they saw in her a generational shift. You know she was. She was about thirty years younger then. Susan B. Anthony and and so they saw in her the problems of the future and in fact they saw that rightly because the women they spoke to where the wives lives of Sort of gentlemen. Farmers you know the wives of business small business owners. The wives of ministers the the wives of academics. The women victorious spoke to were why for women who are actually working yet. You know who had been forced to join this industrial workforce who were the new telephone operators telegraph operators and the tight we know who man the typewriter and they were a new labor force who no one had had to deal with before and no one quite knew what to do with and you know so they had all new issues which we are talking about today you know child care and maternity leave and all those kinds of things I mean and this was brand new. Victoria saw saw all of those problems because she had lived them and so it was just as she was a really wonderful kind of unifying figure that anyone with the foresight to to recognize. It could've seen that she was. She was where politics had to go. She was where the women's movement and had to go and yet she was very threatening as you can imagine to the powers that be because at this time. Victoria's political career kind of began on eighteen. Seventy eight hundred seventy one really blossomed in eighteen seventy two. This was another time in Europe where the streets were exploding am in eighteen. Eighteen seventy Peres had had been under bombardment. There was a Franco Prussian war. which I won't get into but it had left Paris besieged and and the French government Basically the Europe the powers in Europe left the Parisians to their own devices. They jerk the pressure had one and Prussian forces were surrounding Paris and the Parisians had to decide. What do we do you know? How do we survive? How do we keep literally the pressure out of the city and so they formed? What was a commune? And within this city a rebellion occurred Peres often. The the the home of Revolution Lucien and this was another case of that. Where a seed among people who had absolutely nothing? Who'd been starved you know? Were eating rats at this point. A seed seed of rebellion. Rose that actually Threatened was so threatening and so powerful and so violent that they a headlines around the world including in the United States. Try were were full of fear and trembling over this new populist us this working class this class associated with marks in his international working man's association who were who were rising up and taking control of this city and who threatened the stability of France Post Post. Pression were proscribed Franco Prussian War France and they were wild rumors in the United States and throughout Europe about the spread of this revolution and so against that backdrop betrayal was actually preaching revolution. Now some of this was coming from blood. Some of it was coming from the international working. Men's association that she was aligned with And some of it was coming from our own experience and what she was saying was absolute catnip to the audience. She was speaking to because they wanted nothing so much as a revolution because they were suffering and they were starving and they were working working seven days. A week For for for wages that didn't v them did it could with which they couldn't feed their families. And so Victoria's Victoria was exceedingly dangerous. Not only was she out there. Speaking to large audiences in accumulating greater and greater crowds. But she did so with flair and beauty and intelligence and and and she started to become very threatening some of her Significant well-known collaborators Were Uh were men were Stephen Pearl Andrews and Benjamin Butler. Can you talk about how those two guys play a role in her her politics publishing shing What they brought to their collaborations with Victoria and and what she took from from them? Yeah Yeah it's your betrays res life. She's had each had several really important measure so one was blood The other in finance was Cornelius Vanderbilt. Stephen Pearl Andrews was her works kind of genius For publish in the publishing sphere. She had she had started the newspaper with blood and and it was open to all kinds of radical ideas has and it was really a clear it was it was kind of what we know today. in an aggregate she would allow anybody to print whatever they publish. Whatever they wanted in her newspaper she was all fall? Press freedom and letting any kind of voice who wanted to be published speak. In fact she was the first. Her newspaper was the first in the United States to publish the Communist manifesto so she was not She was not afraid of diverse and radical voices. Inter Inter newspaper. Stephen Pearl Andrews had been kind of in semi-retirement for a while he was one of these fringe figures in the United States who would dabbled in everything in philosophy journalism academics a bit of politics and he saw in this newspaper but he he had a lot to say. He had a lot to get off his chest chest and he saw this newspaper in Victoria. Circle a place where he could do that and so he came to her as a journalist and said you know I can help you edit this paper and in fact she was so busy launching her political career in juggling so many things that she kind of handed it off to him with blood supervising and Stephen even pro Andrews under his his direction. The woodhall Caffeine's Cleveland's weekly became an incredible muckraking Oregon. He was afraid of no one. Of course he had had nothing to lose. It wasn't his newspaper. All he rest was being thrown in jail for libel but he went after corporations he went after industrialists he even went after The most important preacher in the country Henry Ward Beecher. Who was this sanctimonious powerhouse else in Brooklyn of the head of the the famous Beecher clan? Who who who who were on the right side of all issues and above reproach Stephen Pearl Andrews was the first one to kind of hint at in her newspaper. That Beecher was not all he seemed and so- Victoria through him Victoria. Learn kind of the art of unmasking these hypocrites which which was also something. She really understood because she thought society was hypocritical to its core that men were given liberties and rights that women could never exercise and and she couldn't understand you know. Oh how they could be allowed in what was called democracy so Stephen Pro Andrews was her her man in publishing. Benjamin Butler was her mentor in all things Washington Washington politics. He was a Massachusetts Congressman. who was kind of one of these figures I? I often try to think of who he would have been in contemporary terms. And when I was writing this it was the heyday of the Clinton the Bill Clinton administration and I kind of thought of me has as a left-wing Newt. Gingrich type figure. You know he was someone a real polemicist west who everyone knew about. Nobody was at crazy about on any side of the issues. But you couldn't ignore him in. So Benjamin Butler gave Victoria access to Congress Access to the House Judiciary Committee where she delivered a speech demanding women's rights and became the first woman to ever do that in US history. And and he. He gave her a quick tutorial in in the in the in the workings of Washington in lobbying in the power structure in who she had it Torri in who she had to reach in order to make a difference and and she it eighteen seventy one. She went to Washington address. The Committee unbeknownst to address the House Judiciary Judiciary Committee with Butler's with Butler's help and unbeknownst to the women suffragettes who you're the women's rights movement who were gathered in Washington at that same time to once again have their convention to once again speak to each other Victoria out of nowhere had gained access is to Congress something that they had been able to since eighteen forty eight and so this was another way of her making a huge dramatic move that the thrust her into the limelight light and in fact see the top of the she went from being no one in the women's rights movement to being you know One of the most important players and so Butler helped put her there. Can you say a little more about the relationship between the women's rights movements and spiritualism at this point in the in the eighteen seventies especially I'm thinking about the advocacy from some spiritualists. Like Victoria for what they were calling. Free Love can you talk about what free love I and how it either created friends or enemies in the women's rights movement. Yeah so what one of the one of the The third rail of American Politics Of actually American social life or social discourse chorus was. Something called free love at that. Time and Victoria was accused of being the high priestess of free. Love and spiritualism racialism had sort of evolved spirituals and became by the eighteen seventies became a huge tent. That accepted all manner of reformers and Victoria. Korea was one of them in Victoria. Specialty was of course social reform and the social reform. She preached was one in which she said you. You know every individual should have the right to love who they want when they want for however long they want without society having the right to pass judgment human on her or her or him or in any way make that illegal. In other words there should be divorced. Laws women should be able to get a divorce. Women should have a property rights Men should be able to leave abusive relationships as well without any kind of without any kind of stain Victoria spoke the kind of language anguish. That we speak today. You know the society she envisioned was pretty much the one we have where well to a certain extent. Where is it where governments stay as much his possible out of out of a person's personal life? Where would she would call out of a person's bedroom her critics who by now were growing because she they were so terrified of her for political reasons? Reasons were were quick to label that free love and in fact. The spiritualist often denounced as being free lovers. Now you know that phrase free love have you can imagine what Middle America would have thought of that. You know America was still a very pious country a very Christian country and a very supposedly moral country even though Oh you know prostitution was rife You know a marriages were full of abuse sexual and physical. You know. It's it's the same old all story where there's a surface narrative and then there's actually happens behind closed doors and so The free love handle was someone that was given Victoria in order to discredit her and she never really shied away from that in fact in one of her most famous speeches she said because of the hypocrisy of that you know because because of the progress you the people who are calling her reliever who she knew you know were men who were engaged in extramarital affairs you know who frequented Senate prostitutes who were drunk or ledges and she declared in one of her most famous New York speeches. You know yes. I'm a free lover you know and no. No one has the right to tell me that I can't be and when you think about it it's such a basic claim. It's such a basic human right that you should be able to love whom you choose was and she wasn't even talking in those days about gay rights she was just talking about the actual the actual ability of a woman to declare herself. Alf To be to be to be in a relationship when she wanted without any regard for the legal Legal limit limitations are strictures and and so Victoria Victoria and the spiritualists because a spiritual eyes were also becoming part of the a political reform movement the Labor movement although albeit at kind of the nutcase side of it you know the the Marx's of this world were appalled by the idea of spiritual Louis embracing The tenants of the international working men's Association. Because they they were so marked with soft prayed of being discredited by this group which he of course had no truck with because he was much too much materialist to think that he was? Anyone could get any kind of message from someone beyond the grave whether it be a A dead spouse or a God and so The the spiritualists though to the normal mainstream politician Titian the United States where a dangerous group. They were an outlying group. They were growing group and a growing political force and Soda Tire Them With Label. Free Lovers and Tatar Victoria Tori without label when a long way to discredit them among people who might have been listening. You know but we're taken aback by that and certainly wouldn't want to be associated with come to to Victoria and clans or would hole and Cleveland's weekly publishing the Beecher Tilton affair can you talk about Maybe in the life of the publication you talked about how it was kind of an aggregate or a grab bag all kinds of things were going into it. Can you talk about what what hit those pages. That was such a big deal and why Victoria in the in the eighteen. Seventy in the early eighteen seventies eighteen seventy one She was under so much pressure and under so in being so criticized from so many quarters because because as soon as she became a radical radical politically all the people who operated her the wall streeters. The vanderbilts of this world The kind of upper across New York society who thought of her as a novelty. You know a lovely novelty was you know with an engaging personality and a curious message of women's rights. It's starting to abandon her because she became politically dangerous. An infuriated her because she knew all of their secrets and she knew do that she was going to go down because she had no. She had no backers. She had no Supporters within the establishment to help her or defend her and and she had come across Henry Beecher's out sorry Henry Ward Beecher. who was the probably the the most beautiful of the Billy Graham of his time? He was most prominent preacher in America. Absolutely an untouchable figure and she knew from the women's rights. Great Pride and from The Grapevine in New York that not only had he been having affairs with his parishioners for decades but that he had actually had an affair air by his closest associate had an affair with the with the wife of his closest associate Theodore Tilton and had impregnated her and the wife either her had a miscarriage or an abortion. Now that kind of a scandal in that period of America when not only was the power our structure kind of under siege with the with the threat of the commune but it was also the period of the Grant Ulysses Grant Administration which was rife with corruption eruption and And so the stability that might have come from Washington wasn't there so all all aspects of American life were under threat. The idea that the top up religious figure in the country was also fallible. In fact not just fallible you know but but but a liar and Aletsch was would be would be a powerful statement for her to make but she hung back. She didn't she didn't use that information against him until it got to the point that Victoria was absolutely desperate and so she didn't expose beecher what she did was. She wrote a letter in the New York Times to describe the hypocrisy of American culture and and she said that she knows personally of a powerful preacher who practices free love but is too timid to preach it to declare it. And that she she wishes that the people who believed as she did that men and women should be free in the in the domestic and social and personal arena That they should come forward if they did that. Then then you know her. Her position would be more secure Of course that threat. So call that adv very veiled threat was met by Beecher in his group with with absolute terror beaches sisters were were. Harriet Beecher stowe. Oh the author of Ogle. Tom's cabin and a woman in Catharine Beecher who had written although she was unmarried childless had written was which was considered the kind of doctor actor Spock's Manual on child rearing at that point in American history and so these were women with exceedingly powerful voices so the three of them got together to to destroy Victoria and Victoria Harriet beecher still ran. A cereal in a magazine called doc anyway. There was a character in the Harriet. Beecher stowe ran ran a cereal in a magazine I was a character called audacious. Dang your eyes in the end. The person was absolutely recognizable as Victoria and it was mocking and it was cruel and Victoria There were there was a lot Victoria. What's good swallow? That went too far so Victoria decided that she would challenge Henry would feature. She was going to give a speech on free love. The one I mentioned should earlier where she declared herself a free lever and she said to Henry Ward Beecher. If you present me in this speech if you come out on the stage with me I won't. I'll keep your secret. I want you to declare who you are presenting me and Henry Ward Beecher in his snivelling according to Victoria snivelling on his couch said I can't do do that and but I'll pay for the pay for the the evening I'll give you two hundred thousand dollars or or no. Sorry I'll be twenty thousand dollars to pay for the evening At for you to rent Apollo Hall after the event. But I can't be there myself so she said I'll I'll I'll. I'll assume you're going to come. She didn't take no for an answer. Also you're we're gonNA come and if you don't come that I'm not responsible for the consequences and so Henry Ward beecher proved himself not to be courageous enough to do within she proceeded needed to do which was declared a free lover and The wrath that fell upon Victoria after that was sensational and so in her newspaper in November. And I'm sorry in October. Nineteen eighteen. Seventy two she decided to tell the story of the Beecher Tilton affair and in black and white in this newspaper She went into all the gory details and exposed him for who he was and brought down this house of cards. which was you know the the Beach Your family the Congregational Church in Brooklyn the religious pillar upon which so much of the moral American myth was built? She brought it down in that article and the the issue flew off the stands. They couldn't keep it Everyone wanted to read it. No one wanted to report it but everyone wanted to repeat it and so- Victoria in intaking that rash step basically And it her political career. Ironically it was the month before she was on the ballot as the presidential candidate that she that she wrote this piece or that you allow this piece republished in her in her newspaper. And on the morning of the Election Day she was in jail for having distributed that newspaper through the mail thereby breaking US violating US obscenity laws by mailing obscene material obscene material being the story of the Beecher Tilton affair which everyone was trying to cover up so it was a bold and reckless move. Move on her part but she did what she set out to do. which was exposed the hypocrisy in American society? No it's it's an aging seventy seven a couple years later. The Victoria leaves the United States. Can you talk about what her life was like intervening years those couple years before she finally go yeah. Victoria was fairly discredited. It'd politically among the society. She had come to know in her early years in New York and the women's rights movement really wanted nothing to do with her because with exposing the Tilton to Beecher scandal she she had. She had gone too far and she was a liability political liability for the women's movement and and so betrayal was on her own and she retreated where she knew she was still be welcome which would be to the spiritualist and so she became one of the great speakers on the spiritual circuit and and she was more bold than she ever had been and she basically had nothing to lose because she had lost just about everything and she told it as she saw but and her speeches were You know fill to capacity wherever she went but by eighteen seventy seven she was really exhausted. And so Cornelius Vanderbilt had died and his sons her family was so afraid. That Victoria or the Tenney who had been the old man's lover was going to try to claim some kind of of money from him or that they would then go and expose vanderbilt for for what he was That they paid literally paid Victoria antennae. To leave town and so- Victoria decided to take that whole crazy claflin client with her to England And there she went to reestablish herself sought to leave the United States to go as far as England because she he needed to escape the the Tilton Beecher scandal she had emerged from it. You Know Wounded Devastated A. She had lost everything. Henry Ward Beecher had not he was still as powerful as ever had been in fact he had been working on a book on the life of Christ so he was still The figure of the moral authority in the United States so Victoria in retreat. It was one of the few times she actually ever retreated but it was just exhaustion on her part she. She went to England England. And and try to reestablish yourself there among the spirituous As as a as a speaker In that country and in the audience I mean as happened to her time and again she was such a such a Such a magnetic figure that in the audience there was a gentleman in a banker from an old well established British banking family A man named John. biddle th Martin. Who heard her? It was so removed by what she said that he began to court. Her and this was exactly the kind of sanctuary sanctuary that Victoria needed. Luckily for her John Martin was not your average banker. His closest relative had been assistant who had just died and she had been a spiritualist and she had been a women's rights advocate and John Martyn himself was a was a social reformer so victoria literally fell all into this man's arms and and they they were married and she became now. I wouldn't say a pillar Hiller of British Society of British kind of upper class society but she became one of those American women who appeared Out of nowhere out of New York. Usually they came with a bundle of cash to try to to in order to Save a dying errors critic. Family are to save them from ruin. Victoria came to save a lonely banker from his solitude so she lived in England For for many years until her death in nineteen one thousand nine hundred eighty three and in nineteen twenty three and and she lived a retired existence in comparison to how she lived in the United States but one that was actually befitting a woman of her age in those times but she was no way less radical and in fact She was part of the spiritualist movement on and she was also part of the movement which was very interesting and it makes sense why she would be because when you think about what motivated her. When she was a fifteen year all girl the her first political lesson was that women should women should be instructed how to take care of themselves physically so that they can make sure that they have a child who is healthy and that that little colonel was something that followed Victoria all her life that life lesson that was her mission and even as an older woman when she was in London in the in the beginning of the twentieth century she? She was an advocate of eugenics because because she thought that until people understood actually the mechanics of their bodies and still really understood health and wellbeing that society would always produce an underclass that was poor and it wasn't that she was trying to create a master astor race by any means which she did was she just used that information she had gotten all those years as a spiritualist and and and the the tales tales of woe. That parents told her parents who had no money in and came and you know describe their children who were dying young who were dying at birth or who lived with Physical or or or mental ailments and in Victoria in her own self education had come to learn and also when she got to England. She learned she studied more the idea that if people understood health physical health then and if poorer women could be told and given healthcare and could be told how to take care of themselves and given proper nutritional information that this the group of people this underclass might not be condemned to generation after generation of poverty. And so. That's what what what you Victoria to that movement in it's absolutely understandable is the thread throughout her political life throughout her spiritual life and into her into into her old age though that year. Eighteen seventy seventy seven when Victoria does leave the United States It's also a critical year for for the movements in America that had wanted to build. The World Victoria envision. Can you talk a little more about what happened in that year. When Victoria had like she lost and was leaving what else happened in her radical circles that that shaped how much of that world imagined they would achieve in the evolution the labor movement and the radical political movements in Europe and the United States by the late eighteen seventies the second generation of labor radicals culls? Who would have been kind of? Victoria's age I'm you know. She's a second generation Feminine Neck Feminists and call themselves bonus of a second generation women's rights advocate the second-generation Labor activists in Europe and the United States were much more radical than the first generation worthy not. Then let's say Karl Marx Generation Integration. They were the the second generation who are operating in the eighteen seventies. Were taking their fight to the street and part of it were lessons that they learned. I'm from the commune from the Communist in the early seventies in Paris but part of it was just the frustration of the The working the Labor movement which saw its its efforts to combine and to grow as a political force being stifled by this powerful beast which was called capitalism which interestingly enough had only actually begun being called capitalism in the in the mid century so this was an entirely new phenomenon a non that people only were beginning to grapple with this this mammoth force that was controlling people's lives and chewing workers up and spitting them out without out shouting tier and so the Labor movement became very radical in the seventies in the years between eighteen seventy seven and eighteen ninety three when betray very was in England. She lost touch with what was happening in the United States and she had been off the stage she had been off the Off the kind of political cla radar and the women's rights radar At an actually taken refuge in this kind of bourgeois existence. She had in London with her new husband and she went back to the United States. She decided that she wanted to get back on the circuit because she has revived herself and she there's certain things happen to she Had had a a a brush with the with the The British Museum a libel suit where she She had sued the British Museum because it contains several several pamphlets re pertaining to the Beach Tilton scandal and and Victoria wanted that out of her life. She had moved to England England to get rid of that. And so she she. She sued the British Museum for Libel because they had these pamphlets and so the result of that lawsuit was mixed. I am a judge rule that yes Victoria had been libeled by these pamphlets that she was not this free lover in this. Wanton woman described in these brochures These documents that came out of New York That were in the British Museum's possession but that the museum itself was not guilty liable. We'll Victoria in her way declared a victory entirely early for her for herself and so she felt now that she had finally put that scandal behind her. She felt that that was kind of the bookmark. at the end of the Beecher Tilton scandal she could go back to the United States and maybe revive not a political career but at least speaking career become irrelevant voice again but she arrived in the United States in 1893 to an entirely different scene it had moved beyond her argument. The women's rights movement was now focused entirely on getting the vote for women The political movement was the the was radical and looked at her as a kind of a middle aged wealthy woman. That's how she appeared in fact that's who she was. Her Spirit was still Victoria woodhall but people had also forgotten her so the audience she had previously Ashley was not there and it was kind of sad CODA to her to her career because her one and only lecture there fell flat and so she cancelled she made some excuses and cancelled her tour and retreated to England and John Martyn. Her husband had family property In the in Gloucestershire in the West of England and she she she literally would move there and live in his grand house up on a hill and wage for the rest of her life wage. Very Small Mall Battles for education for Driving for drives for women's rights to drive of all things She got involved and in In minor scuffles with local authorities. She was still that fighters still Victoria woodhall but her days of of trying to change basically Klay America and bike and and the world. Where we're we're well past her? So in kind of thinking from the end of her life back second summing it up do you do you see any. Here's for Victoria in kind of this week of American history. I mean with all these firsts swith. You mentioned her courage with sensitivity with being so far ahead of her time She's a remarkable person Are there any UH others were kind of stand with her. Does she have stand alone to you. In my mind. She stands alone. You know when I was writing about her. Whenever you write history you oh you you refer to your own experiences and people you you contemporary? At this time when I was writing it was during the Clinton administration and Hillary Clinton was out there tonight. Sometimes thank you know is she a Hillary Clinton type of figure but no I mean Victoria was really there are there are in and as I said before there is a. There's a wealth of of history that hasn't been told and most of it. Is You know minorities and women stories but And so no doubt there are other Victoria would hold out there But in my mind she's unique in that she was such a singular figure that was powerful on her own. I mean when you think about it. She had had people who educated her along the way but the energy that propelled her for decades was her own based on nothing but let her own will her own spirit her own sense of justice her own sense of writing wrongs wrong on a massive scale and and the fact that that she was able to do that and and to have the courage and and to make such an impact at a time when women didn't even have the voice so it's not just that she was about breaking barriers. She actually broke the barriers now. You know she was reckless. She wasn't shrewd dude politically and so she was easily dismissed by you know because she went too far. She wasn't a very good chess player. But I think as I struggle figure in American in the American feminist history. I think that she stands alone and And I think that she someone who deserves even more more research than I did. I did look at her. You know kind of as you're kind of talking about it across disciplines. It's not just as a spiritual snot just as a politician. It's not just as women's rights yet to really embed her in what was going on at the time makes you appreciate her even more and and I think that for what we're going through today You know we're at a place now where we're going to another revolution that's really comparable comparable to the industrial revolution in scale and profound impact on society. And and one of the interesting things. You know that historically when people are scared because of changes they have no control over or they don't understand they seek solace in you know spiritual is and we're religion or something. I don't really see that happening now. And I. Maybe maybe you do I. I was racking my brain to think that if there's kind of a revival now but it's interestingly I don't think it's happening but But Victoria Toria kind of speaks to us again because unbelievably the very right. She was talking about you. Know while women can vote and while women do have rights to property ownership and they're not the property of their husbands. You know we're still talking about abortion rights and we're still talking about God you know gay rights we're still talking about government interference in personal lives. And so the the the war she was waging then she could be waging. Today you know basically almost using the same language which is really both sad and kind of interesting You you know and so I think that she's a very pertinent figure for us to study at this moment in that period of history is is is a fascinating one for us to look at because of the because of the changes that were occurring in the fact that you know where society wasn't eighteen forty eight no one could have predicted where it would have been even in eighteen seventy and so where we are today. Twenty nineteen you know. We sometimes think. Is this over you know. Is the mayhem. The kind of the social mayhem the technological breakthroughs throughs. Is it over. You know. It's far from over and we've got a long way ahead and so It's it's interesting to see who the Victoria would halls might be today in. Who What are they saying? And and how and where push should we listen to and what directions are they pointing pointing in And you know she came out of nowhere and and maybe the next Victoria would halls just out there writing a blog somewhere. Hey folks it's Aaron here. I hope today's interview helped you. Deepen in your understanding of everything involved in the world of spiritualism. But we're not done yet. We have more interviews to share with you so stick around after this brief sponsor break back here a preview of next week's interview you next time on on obscured. I think I've always been. I don't know if you'd say gifted but at least fascinated by outliers these these were wildest of the Weil folks. I think I've always been able to walk along a beach sand and find some odd odd thing that people don't notice or piece of glass looks shy. These are definitely those kinds of people ball. You know within the wide range of the spiritual movement I seem to be able to find you know the toad the whole or the serpent in the garden. If if you might say and I think by looking at those outliers you can see stuff. That's true within the movement but maybe harder Chrissy of true in potential. And that leads you into questioning may merit about what spiritualist On obscured it was created by me. Aaron McKie and produced by Matt Frederick. Alex Williams and Josh Vein in partnership with iheartradio research and writing for the season is all the work of my right hand. Man Karl Nellis and the brilliant Chad Lawson composed the brand new soundtrack learn more about our contributing historians source material and links to other shows over at history obscured dot com. And until next time. Thanks for listening on obscured production of iheartradio and Aaron Monkey for more podcast. My heart radio was radio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows

Victoria Victoria United States New York City Karl Marx Ohio Victoria woodhull Victoria Woodhall president Torey woodhall San Francisco Victoria woodhall practice Europe Victoria Woodhull Hole Victoria Toria woodhall Washington Victoria Wood Aaron McKie Pulitzer Prize
The Morning Briefing: Tuesday, March 3

The Briefing

02:13 min | 1 year ago

The Morning Briefing: Tuesday, March 3

"I'm Danny Boyle with the briefing from the Telegraph. It's Tuesday march the third and the prime minister's announcing his corona virus battle plan so. Nhs needs you. Campaigns being launched to urge volunteers to help in the events of a major corona virus outbreak. It's one of the steps. Boris Johnson will announce today things that could happen if the virus continues to spread health. That is a lower Donnelly explains what could change in the UK everything from encouraging against needless travel to using retired medics and our global health security editor. Poor new keys written a piece on the government's contain and tecate strategy. What can you do to protect yourself? Then while some employers have already banned hot desk king ordering staff to work from home and avoid face to face meetings consumers rule so encouraged to use contactless rather than banknotes. We've got a practical guide to the symptoms. How quickly they show and what to look for now a new twist in allegations of bullying by Pretty Patel. It's been claimed that the civil servants allegedly attempted to kill herself legal. Correspondents reported the claim she took an overdose after an alleged incident. When Miss Patel was employment minister she alleged. She was dismissed because the now home secretary didn't like her face. We've got full details of the allegations which are denied. And it's a tradition of royal. Ascot that the men were gray and black morning suits now. Those in the rolling closure are being allowed to win navy for the first time they all still have to wear a waistcoat and ties as well as a top hat. Of course Victoria. Wood explains more of the changes in the events. Ninth annual style guide right. Stay put if you're listening on WHATSAPP. I'll send you those links. Now if you're listening on spotify apple or wherever you get your podcast you'll find them in the show notes as well as links to Jason Birt's metropoles after Arsenal beat. Portsmouth to nil. And why skiing's pushing marriages on the skids and how to avoid it. That's it you're up to date. Chris will have your second briefing of the day this evening.

Pretty Patel Danny Boyle prime minister Donnelly Nhs Boris Johnson skiing Portsmouth UK Chris Victoria Jason Birt editor secretary Wood spotify Arsenal apple
RHLSTP 207 - Kerry Howard

Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast

53:42 min | 2 years ago

RHLSTP 207 - Kerry Howard

"Hello. And welcome to another fabulous robusta is Kerry Howard in Baath. Hey, look, we did this one onto touring loads at the moment. And I'm sure right into the future and every innocent this I will be on tour unless I'm dead. Sorry. I'm dead who I've come back as a ghost. That'll be more fun when I'm dead. I go to dot com slash gigs Covina from coming near to you. And right in the moment, we're doing Kickstarter to raise money for the twenty-five shows we've filmed already in twenty nineteen hopefully we can cover a few more of the ones coming up to the summer as well with this. If you've listened this because the never donated or if you watch the videos lightning to continue or if you just like loads of cool rewards. I mean, the works of art one day, probably both me one vs meat is new and stone clearing. We'll win turn prizes, which means that you'll be able to get works of art. These were rock in value. That's the case to tons of thousands of pounds. And also getting the work of you get teacher and some videos of me stone, clearing and planes. New was loads of other stuff other artists. Don't do that. Do they if Vincent van golfer giving away a t-shirt shirt with every painting? Maybe you to solve more in his lifetime. That's all I'm saying. Anyway, if you wonder owns amount or just help us make more scatalogical punk costs. Go to dot co dot UK slash Kickstarter. And you can join the from their rehearsed. As a great place to find out more about the book cost to all, right? Bye. Laid isn't Joan Komen. That's right. That's what I wanted to say. Welcome for another week to the Baath comedian. We came we like to so much. We came back. For another week. But he's just signed a billion dollar deal to make his bat Japan Stockman shows going really well, just backstage. He's richard. Just some much better loss weeks audience. So is they would come. Old comes so welcome to the show. Welcome to the show. Love back in both always love coming here. And is. Welcome to Richard herrings. Licking sherpa Tenzing podcasts. We later on. That's going to happen later on. I think he's just a scaling to now. But still be making easier to in away. Although I was at the Herschel museum of astronomy involve just before the show. You know, you rain this. Uranus was discovered in Boston. Do you know that Uranus was? Uranus was discovered in buffalo. It's like it's bad to begin discovered after the show as well. Fixed. You I was hanging out with some of the guys from the William Herschel society. They call it. Christopher. They also call it earnest. But then I'll fooling anyone Caroline did all the work. They will sign spice. Caroline, her show echoes William Herschel who didn't discover it was Carolina show. She's the best one now. Controversial. Yeah. Jane Austen didn't write the books was Ian, Austin has been derived. Books. William Fisher, called Uranus. Georgia citizen. I don't need to tell you that. Right. Meaning Georgia's star or planet after King George to need to tell off they knew that. And that's that's what they're best known for someone else who called it Uranus. Which is in basketball, either we realized it was called Uranus. And that would be funny. That's quite embarrassing. Didn't realize it was the rain the sandy funding, which is worse, isn't it? So is one of the two. Whoever code Uranus. Uranus sounds like your anus. Right. We got a fantastic as we this week. We should probably best known as the party girl in peacock season. The. The Richard herring vehicle that you may be. I also starred in that film that could be my best known as well. Of course savvy is my best. Please carry Howard lazy. Sit down the microphone. You have to talk into my film. I never got paid for that. Did you not on the guy did either about JD? Someone's always something they were getting paid, Saddam. It was it was a film about the end number fringe those guys going on to stop making up our call some proper films. Film is available on go faster stripe. If you wanted to see what what was your role as party girl? I can't remember I think like I had to let a comedian look at my tits and go. You it was it was it was pretty metoo. So it was a meet say, but like making real films only have an office. Awful. Anyway, backstage, you're telling me your best known as a ventriloquist that could. Until the client. I couldn't. Well, hang on. This is this is my way into this industry is so plight mental. But this is genuinely how I managed to get my agent. I go I opened bought the stage magazine when I moved to London, and it was filled with ads on like to be a table dancer and every week. I maybe I could do that. But I didn't. But then one week that was this ad that said lengthy ventriloquist in two weeks BBC three's sitcom open casting, and you never have open costings for BBC like people don't do things. And this was Susan was it like fifteen years ago. Susan. Teeth as an inside the five seasons. Head. She's my go champagne bowl. The same you same k with. I was the ball AD much. He anus. This. Yeah. I went along to this open audition. Fuck it. I could see that. I've never done triggered. Because like cutting to say the word. It's going to be good for me. Right and Ken Campbell was there, and he was doing a workshop teaching these goals to learn how to do it. And luckily, I've got an over by which means tape, so you can kind of like hide your tongue and like try and do it because you cooked. My doing it. It was good. I should say that maybe I should do a Netflix show. Anyway, I got the job and a week later. I was in Glasgow doing a hidden camera show. For like, it's like a stings sting show, and it doesn't really work because you'll ventriloquist being in front of people, and it's like angry Scottish people like why don't you move in your mouth, you'll Mitch and I'm like oh. And the directors like don't say coverage uses. I do. You know, and monthly to is on BBC. One o'clock, and they will most it so kraken beginning we'll fight. It must be on YouTube not case where is it is dead. Can we find a couple of Susan is foam? The manga socal Susan will not we don't know. I remember now, I think the reason why I got the job is because my soul like banter to break the audition with I don't know why this is a really good way to kind of break the ice with casting directors. I'd always be like, hey, I can do a dolphin slash monkey in Britain. And yeah, I'll do it. I want to hear it do. But this got me the job. It was in the show. I say I'm done this. Okay. Let's have some bubbles. It's gonna be really shit now. Okay. Othman very. It was different times than the constant was based on what animals you could do. It was a simplicity anyway to be CD and the number night. Let's go back to make them do animal that was. That was good. Yeah. Ken Campbell's, an amazing me. I was a fan of Ken Campbell. I didn't know he was can count you. I just thought he was just some random old dude that was a little bit smiley. And he's of light invited me to his house to do some training. Yeah. We might may. But I could have he could give me the keys to calm the day. And I could have been in this away and fell up, but I chose the scene it route say Magda thoughts, pigs, I've all the people off with young women. He was one of the nicer ones. So. Eyebrows were say they were they were like think it's true choosing. He was a genius, gene. Yeah. I wish I did. Go back to. He probably wouldn't even I wouldn't have been the one of the goals that you picked just I at the talent. But not tractive says. This thing. So we should talk about your brother Daniel, twin brother exactly, I didn't know you're a twin till today. So I'm very excited about your twin? Brother don't care about the other brother. He's a douche. But what's it like being the twin is that? All right. It's all right. Yeah. To be honest. There's only two years difference between me and twin and listens to. Well, two weeks difference between me and between. So my mum this timed out on this story. So many times my mom of your it twice in one month. So I was conceived and then two weeks later Daniel was conceived. But if she was a bit of a slow we could have had different dad's. We didn't. To add boring. But we were born at the same time, but Daniel was really pram and could have died, but he didn't. So you pushed him out to the two ready? In writing. He was like the skull dot com. A real dot com. That's a webcam looking back in the pitches. It was like, you know, burn it. The baby I was beautiful put it. This Dan knew what is Daniel working everyone else if I'm used to work in show business Daniel working show. He's like, I think he's an IT consulting Jesus ninety days with my audience sess wonderful. He does he's on the phone and soon as he starts talking about his job. I start talking about my work. He's like, so we just don't pay attention to each other. It's a beautiful relationship twins are allowed to go that way. Do you have you psychic with each other because she's shed the womb together? Well, I I believed I was okay. But I think that's because I can't say, no. I would always do county note that never happened to me sense to know, they win if truth be told how many times do you get asked? If you're an identical twin with your twin, brother. Probably lots when I was nine years old, but never no good. So. The other brother, though, I remember Russ Russell Howard didn't if you know Russell Howard's. No, he's not. There's not too much. It's quite nice. Boy, he lost one of the times, the comedian recently. He was in town and called me up. And I went and had some barbecue ribs with him and your mum and dad, I've met you a whole family apart from Daniel. Seeing in the front row to be fast. One day. So what's up? I'd say. Russell you've done. You did I did a film together on a cold a lush Christmas? We don't need to explain here in bath. Oh, maybe a little bit. So maybe we. A bit Bristol for us. Very good Christmas. Yeah. Very good, Chris. Yes. Lush girlish. So that's what was it like having to actual side, rather whether you're playing is sister. So are you playing your self? I know it wasn't. It was based on one of my second cousins, Cali ready. But this description of Julie bear mine cheese. Bristow Deon hairdresser. So she's got a lot of jive in her. Russell wrote this part for me the description of her knowing that it would be me was a slightly dumpy plane go. I'm like, well, that's not the character and bullshit. That's not me bitch. Yeah. No bitter. Was fake. I was a little bit where you're rubbing noses with them and stuff. It was a weird. Yeah. That was when. We're not very not tactile to Russell doesn't like to be touched. And like, it's just like a weird thing. So to have to do that in front of like twenty crew cost you like this is where it was weird merely wrote on the amount met with Russell in Starbucks and shepherds prescreen. Yeah. To talk about possibly working on. So then from. My rights memory anchor is not going very well. The bad news this week. It was well, so try not try and pull. Actually, auditioned for me as well. And you didn't get as. I was really good. We're really good. I was too good of you. You definitely the top two. I hope I wasn't not good enough. But nothing came of it. So we did. Yeah. We feel good minutes. But good director is well. Lush? Nice guy. He's very good. Very good. Well, we know might something might happen with eventually these. You know, this is going, right? I'm fifty two. Yeah. This is just me, dick. Everything I work harder. I'll come to boss blew my hard words. Oh freedom. Fifty might feel the bottom up down here. It's quite good. And I'll just come and mess around rich these other where were you? Last year when it snows can feel like I'm in a weird for recession is lovely here. It's amazing. It's like. Why don't know why I have about the drawing standup shows are they just get local citizen recently route to the speed Moccoli. Route select the charming is. The reason you go into acting was because you did better your levels than you expected. Is that true? Fuck it. I always wanted to be an actress. No one expected me to very well. So I was going to fill all foundation Filton calling and I was really excited about it. Because actually, I'm reading painter I paid ages. Use your talent muscle. But I got really good results which was a shocker, and then Russell was just like she get declaring out. And then before I knew I was in the pub cheering. Do anything. Because basically a foundation urine are is just the dick about ready to fuck around this lush. But then I came home. You can teach your edge well hill, not edge work, Connie, remember, college is that it was that shit. And then before I knew I was in light Lippou OEMs Kirk this obscure village outside Liverpool doing three drama degree, which was in drama degree. It was like fatigues. Really? And I was the most talented thing. There's some people that would just couldn't even smile. I had nothing. No, I came to London digging. I was fabulous. And then everyone's buck and fabulous was just mediocre. That's true. Are there any other famous alumni actors from your college? I mean, and I'm not yes. Yes. I've seen the inter that's in vain. Interview with F chill coverage. Massive face in. My face is shrunk. So if you want to be an actor. Let me teach. It's a really good place to go. But if you want to be that truce, we'll fucking kidding. Really great charity shops, though, eight charity shops in skirt may eight probably two guys to go to take your ones. One close. Sepa is real. It's really good. The light Tari shells rich ladies can pick up some designers for nothing. Great. Yeah. He where you live in Baath. Now, we put in Bristol live involves boning. Even better you. I'm jay. Yeah. Been there. I was born. Woman immediately. Then we lived in temple came way Mus and then we went to Bedford and then have shit and then sell closest Shah. And then that was it really. And then back to both from criminal. I think you've met my dad, I think he's like James bone. Okay. Because he never talks about his career was in a suit. He's very doesn't talk. So he's killed. He's quite a guy at this age like Whitey needs to be buff over sixty you're in assassin clearly. So probably that's where we get the money. It's blood running. Live. My betrayer is true. He's just been this shit. Okay. Involves the Russians might come. They love cathedrals those guys. Don't if you don't wanna be assassinated by the Russians live in a place with a lovely cathedral asked. Lovely and baths. And every what would you like about the about buffs? I it's. Well, it's no see I love about it. It's jumped up village rapes. I mean, you could be in the Senate, and you look up, and it's all the trees and hills. And and everybody knows each other. Like, everyone says Hello to you like even the cope till assistant of friendly. I ended up spilling up my life to them. And it's just ask if I wanna back, and I'm just like say much baggage. Open. Don't push out. I like Baath who is your favorite famous resident of bath. That you've seen in bath. Apparently. I hear Chris Marshall is a buffo Nian. Yes. Yes. I I saw him in a car, and I was like. What happens, isn't it? You think? I'm not a real head lives here. Does he tried to get him on? I I guess. Unload was the span. Gabriel Muslim somebody does he still? UPA gabriel. This. I mean, he's going through some looks. I'm not sure he's. You might be Charles Manson to be. No, there's no swastika. And is he dead is. He did he's he's still or is he dead is daddy's dad victims. Novenas in the house. They gonna anomalous every famous Francesca human is in. The history of the pineapple and many other. Why should go you on you should? Yeah. Fred come down with. Good. Right. Once I Russell has done a show traveling around the world with your mum. Yes. Yes. So this is he took my childcare away. Back now in the kitchen with more serious or you're saying, she Congo. I'll come back for you talk. Now, he's going to do well tool, and then they're probably do Europe next year, which will be fine because I'll also myself out then why? Why don't you that you should do show? Go around the world with your dad. He'll kill people. This is strange old mum ganging on the on the action is, but then I actually really love it because she has genuinely been a housewife a whole life, and she would never have gone to India. She just goes Spain and England Spain England he's exposed to all these interesting coaches, and it's really given a release on and she's a beautiful wonderful funny naturally. Funny human. I love that the world gets to see my mum and to save. That's where we get all joy davita from like that is mum comedy button. Her womb is comedy. Daniels funding. Thanks for two weeks. He might need. IT then really funny. I makes the difference. It's true. It's astonish is Kombi true. Different of your relations is genuine Virgin, Mary or something the opposite office. Psyche Mary here. There's a time for it by name. I'm not normal twins with twins. It's fine. Now, I'm suspicious that you're not twins. We often we all. Due to go. Stand up is that. Right. Joyce down a very early on. Yes. There's another stunned co Kerry how I know there is. So I found the stand up then it was someone someone else and she literally lasted for a year. And then just. I killed her because everytime, you good my name hers popped up straight away. And I was like I have no credits. And it was it was in her now, she's dead in the water might credits run. So why didn't long? Shooting drown something same salary. Maybe. I did try stand up only because Russell came home one day and just drop this massive film script in front of me, Wimbledon and was. Alcohol to shin for this. And I was like. Oh, my life, and he's like done stand up for a couple of years, and they're asking him to be invoking films and honesty. All can you help me like coach me, and I opened up the script, and this is the hour of a comedian he'd rewritten everything. It takes five his to write the script before it goes into the costing process. And he's like, yeah. I can do this. Just like, you know, can James back a boycott the fall, but it was down to him and James. Yeah. That was my triggering point was like serve I on the stage. I might get an audition because at that point. It was a close shop me. So I just used it. I hold it just to get contacts, and I did about five gigs. And that's all I need to. Which? It was. I didn't like the process of really I found myself building up towards the day of the gig just thinking about my tie five. And you just obsessed with everything becoming a joke. So then you can't have normal interaction because you can use it, and I just full and it was to spit too introspective. And I love sharing with people as much lemon show off. But I like acting with other people, and I like being apart the team and comedy if you're slightly depressive, which Kim bussum is not the best place. So I did it for why needed. And then I got out. Well, not do that must've been five nothing. You realize I didn't like it. When I first I'd preferred sketches and work took me to me a long time to come back to where I came back to Russ. I'd give Russell all the time. Russell was just Russell was just kind of becoming bake loads of comparing. But before he was famous two thousand and four so someone like that. So gig with him a lot, but he was impressive. Yeah. He was good. Yeah. He was mental obsessed with it. But then you have to be and I wasn't. I wanted to be an actress. So you can't really go into the comedy world with that of. I don't want to really be this you have to absolutely want to succeed. Otherwise, get the funk of sin. I mean, you've been working very consistently. And you've had two kids in the last four years you still managed to catch our new career with through that which is incredible as well. Because I've got to. Employees me. Unique give me a fucking. I looked well and the one we employed got pregnant. You come win with just right for men. Detach city. Actually, I was hiding my pregnancy at the time. Yeah. Just reading my scripts makes women pregnant. Well, that's that's that's good there. But people know you from him in her breakout. My son. That was the thing that really kind of gave me a job radio career. Yeah. I was interesting because actually letting nowadays you can be quite high pro I think like nothing gets millions of millions of you is he was a fantastic sitcom on BBC ABC three. And yeah, I think it was before online or just it was just before lucky. Luckily was nobody would have. Yeah. I think she was just such a delicious comes. And it was nice. It was nice to play that. Because it's so against tight. I said amazing central cost of that. Cetera. Russell tovia. Yeah. She definitely got me the job because you have chemistry reads, and obviously, Sarah and Russell were already cost and she had to cost her to come. She reads for her sister and the lows of actresses came in. But we she did the read free of Reggie Perrin, which was one of my first jobs as jasmine, but she was obviously too young to be jasmine. But she loved me in the re Fru and that was my burst of cheap been around for years, but I was still newbie and when I came into the ship for Laura she basically then sabotaged everyone's audition because she just wanted me to play Laura. That's good. Thanks. There's a little Pete was saying that little thing about nepotism, which isn't. Yeah. You need you need friends. Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting. And that's because rob Brydon who you haven't seen yet. But it was on the month. The good London one. Property was on the proper one. Joking kind of. He was a grace Scott going him Ajab real in like a man in a crowd in NFL. And it is that. But that's you need to have that chemistry with people's chemistry someone and they liked to be around. You is very boring thing someone that's going to be fun. He doesn't take themselves too. Seriously. I I will not person I think everyone should employees poor partner who's in my stuff as the curious orange to. I used to. But he is not only fantastic anyway, but he's such fun to have on his asset. Got a lot of stories. But also there's a famous person on the set. He will he will ask the famous person the question, Jim, I meant to ask I am getting away with it. And it's pretty mind boasts. Have you chip? Just ask about the jobs that you want the dos about you. I don't know. Yes. Let's Reggie and you also did high bouquet. Oh, yes. Recreated to rose from the pond and going back onto it was very good. I saw the highest in very good. Yeah. It didn't get picked up. But but it was a weird. It was it was a season. I would say it was an unnecessary season. For me. It was a brilliant thing to to because coming from Laura everyone just for that's all you can play. And then to do that. It's so divorced from that. It just goes, motherfuckers. So for me, it was just a a one king acting joked, would you did you worry, the one that was bad was are you being so lot my friend? Yet. When you friends. You see them? Okay. Drink. I'm good night. Sweetheart was actually quite good. Didn't get picked up. Yes. It was quite good. Wasn't as good as good night. Good zeitz. We are good night. Goodness. We we. But that's been now made by Richard. Yeah. Stay bigamy. Like why is that run on Sunday? All want to have sex with other people. In the past. Whereas. Onto okay, not one time when his wife gone through ducats patsies and the two wives map from that one time. No goodness. My goodness. Did you did you worry about taking that road? Just thinking when he's bouquet think this is I is this going to be impersonating passing. Like, oh, I can't do. It was something that I was dicked around with. So I just didn't feel I didn't think about it too much. Which is the best thing to do until I was onset. And like sandy Johnson was like I think you're trying to do an impression. Okay. Fine the truth. But she's a grotesque say that was that was my mobile moment. And then then I I'd really fucked up four I just done a real job of air. And then when it came out everyone was quite coined. So that was nice. Yeah. It's sort of interesting that that people are going back to old sitcoms. I mean, even Partridge coming at least they've doing something completely different. Yeah. I'm making current, and but he saw this pensively to try and go back with even when something's on out sitcoms are in the style of come just strange new, obviously and witless. It was a great news. That's that's dumb now because it was a furlough sitcom, and it was a trilogy say, you company, go back. I mean, I've kind of said to the rights liens in Spain ten years later. She's. Knock on the door and Ryan got kids. And she's like what happened is and Draco back into this this wells. So there's there's another, but they're writing another thing for me at the moment. Yes, it's nice. It's nice that I've got a relationship with rights is now the we know what we can do. And so we've the next idea was really interesting and grownup, which I quite like go, you're right. You're right as well. Yes. Yes. So you're writing you working on. I'm working with Lee seem my little is addition may and then give me the palm. So. Yeah. So was it just a one of the sketch? Oh, yes, I've seen some clips from that. We view playing lots of different people. Yeah. It's not quite freaky. I I love. Back Carter, the pervy character. It was a really funny like it was a weird time. 'cause I just was like so cocksure that was going to get my own sketch show 'cause it was Bong. And then it never happened. And then everyone just stopped making sketch shows just really sad because I grew up on the fast show how field like I just don't understand why they don't exist anymore that brilliant because it's cheap to. To to do reality TV. So it's weird because sketch shows should be asking show was almost then the fashion we on the same time the last ones that were given like a proper budget. So we could spend lots of money to having a big pine show spree. It was a lot of money. That's we Sean about twenty minutes worth as well. So we had the found the extra footage. But yes, because it was I think. Solving the fast show vein your loss of characters to the apps. The light will grew up on it is sort of ways. So sad that comedians as well. Get stand up shows comedy sketch show nine just sound up and self this new show and IT. That's like a stand ups allowed to like turn stand up into a sketch, and I kind of seen the trade over it. And it just doesn't seem authentic. It's cutting to the standup joke and then going back to the sketch and everyone's overactivity, and that's the beauty of sketches is like even Victoria wood is rooted in reality. And that's why you love she. Go got I know that person. You have done drunk history. Which is sort of like a ski you've done that a couple of times. They have the best job problem this game. They genuinely pay you very good money for like a couple of hours to get pissed. Yes. Play under the January work on wherever you say. They do or are they feeding you any ideas. They give you the idea they give you the history. And then like if you have a brain you have a little idea about what you're gonna do. And then on the night you take a season. And you spill you'll vomit our and season. Guys. Don't thing is that he's a bit what she's fleeting something. Fine. Queen to Queen Victoria this bit risque. It was fun. Because I'm not stand up when I asked to do these kind of things I don't have to be funny. So I'm just like I'm just having fun of nobody has any expectation of me to be funny. So Joey, it's a joy I'd hate to be a comedian because you have to be funny. One get one laugh every fifteen to twenty minutes. Still alive? Raymond for ask. Emerged questions from the back of this book about oxides. I won't ask. You can excite. What is the strangest place a cat lick cheap? What repeat what is the strangest place account as lick shoot cats? Okay. My dad used to say we keep it's already good USA throw potatoes at cats when they got in the garden that no that's not Ray don't hurt cats. So I had this innate hatred, but I don't understand why it's because the potato growing. Inciting have some potatoes on whole times case. Always backup potatoes because come round to garden. Always. Yeah. Another question from the MAC of my book the need. What is the way this reason that you've ever skied off school? Did you sky? School like when I was six full. But this is because I really loved my mum, and I really loved light lunch. And I used to just run back Heim and just go sit have my lunch with my mum. What's light lunch? Not go round, the bike sheds and have dooby and be Coon. Then the no run home to be with my mom for three hours, and what's lie and talk about what we can have for t- whilst for e in our lunch. And I still do that with. I live with my mom. Oh god. Thinks it's fine. It's. When you breakfast, you think? Well, Mike enough my dinner. Yes. I've just the thing. Yeah. Go kids as well, as you know, finding meals only time fill my son just eats con. My son would never stop eating if you get them for. And then straight with. Okay. Like eaten my son? If you if you sees you eating anything, he won't shop until you give him whatever is some of the thing. And they'll usually have a crack of it wherever is. I some liquor show that she wouldn't let you Christian. Liquor liquor. She's sixteen months old. Greedy. The herring, greedy genes. That'd be quite good. I think he's got the Wilkins slim genes that we go. So it's going to work out. What is the unhappiest animal you've ever seen zoo? Ooh. All of the mayor there in assu. They're in a prison, basically. Really okay for the mentally ill or mentally ill, zebra. Which needs those Zampa standing in the corner. Looking at the wall. I was. Appreciative do that. Oh. Peg grin recently, and he was just swimming into the glass. You know, kill me. Kill me. Kill me, kill me. So I did. But good. Good up become a member of whip site zoo that good this crazy animals in there. Yeah. Right now. So space to run around fine. Fine bread. Okay. I ask you. What was the worst thing teaching said or did to school? Pretty the west thing. A teacher ever said to me actually the worst thing. I was held sixteen six form and the drama teacher was driving me home. That's normal. Right. And he was giving these analysts character analysts of me as a person, and he was like, the Trump with you carry as you all city on you know, city, you could never be sexy, which I was just like. Run out. The call is interesting the way that. Things that teach us say to you can like the old you get the more. The anyone can say, especially when new young and that sticks with the ages, my twenties, I I was just like not attractive because some fucking middle-aged man said, I wasn't sexy. It was bizarre is strengthened my games teacher came speeches, a horrible. My dad was my master voice. Go kings Wessex anyone in for the kings six. Awesome. That must have when I was at school and said, they'd games. Delight to didn't light to mentally. But I remember one of them say I was thinking dang, oh, you're not need. Headmaster son is not need. I don't think I even particularly was. It's the way it's just because I had huge testicles. I couldn't actually get my legs together. Is it you said? Is a dick. Yeah. Retard from being. You don't go gonna hang up. My cat. A nice guy. Wait was the where was the data? Maidenhead? Okay. You've come a long way. Never right. Scum. This this wanted the good ones. You seem very sure. Okay. We may have to lose that bit. That was my one moment of fame. He's gonna get putting the remain this cost thousand years time people listen go that's the blaze dad didn't rape pretty on. This is the one blow from the twenty first century. Dad, never commit a single sex crime. As far as is sudden nose. Gus tell tell you something if you did. Did say Sunday. Of course, I'm gonna tell you. Luckily, luckily, don't mind. I told you I told them we shouldn't go to the provinces, and they said no go it'll be fine before nine ranges. I'm not. I'm just not sure they'll be able to cope with being so close to someone like me. Okay. Overexcited? Hey, you we we the jury. I love that show with James Acosta's pilot that should have been literate. Yes. That was a nice gig. That was lovely James Custos doom. Very well. He's doing right knee. Yeah. He was very shy day. Yes. That was a great. Yeah. So is the jury in the. The focus on the jury and the jury room like twelve angry men, basically every series. It would be a new new cost. There's a pretty brilliant idea. Actually, no one's ever done that before. So, but you want formula Tyke it. He's all over Netflix. Where I. It's really interesting when someone who it probably is going to be the voice of that generation starts up. You know, your important figure and gets turned down by people who don't know that something pretty. It was it was actually very good. But also, he's very good. I remember when Alan Davis was starting in the like. Geico, tried to get radio one show in the the Exergen. Yeah. But we need someone like famous to be you can't be star of it. He got two years. He's on Greek on. It's just gonna crazy that people. Just take something. That's the problem. That's why my stuff doesn't get on. I'm too is actually too good for them to realize usually after working someone go company cheese, quite but with me, I'm so good. That hasn't even happened. Transcend. And watch judge Rome show seen working rummage Ranga Nathan that was a clerk that another court base thing that was that was a joke for the check. Basically 'cause I'm not doing the second series. Okay. Yeah. It was a funny one because it's like a comedy panel show like judge Renner, and they asked me to do. And I'm like, I'm not a comedian how much okay, I didn't give a fuck because it was over the weekend. And so I look after my kids and then just do weekend. So I don't care about that shit. And I was all right. But I knew there'd be about a person for the job. I think it's a pop. You know? That's all right. So runs. Get pop some view. It just goes I. It just goes I. That's okay. Still get the money. I'm ran the marathon with both brothers safe. My brother's space sit together we start the starting line all at the same time brothers family is blocked off. And I spent the whole time running with what's his name from steps. No ice from stories no age because I'm Lee Lee. This is before the steps reunion. So they're having a bad time Lee is training to be a personal trainer and trying to get into acting. I is whole fucking live story. I tried to lose them in a tunnel. Buck antonia. And did he not not once asked me a question OSHA? Then then I saw him years later they had the reunion and we went to see they're like oh two gig. And e kind of vaguely remembered me, let's guy. I just spend the hosts on you. Doing steps. All the way round one person recognized one person twenty six miles one tragedy. Like all. You wanna stop? Going to leave me alone. What time did you leave from status? I think good time to I got rid of four hours to forty fourteen forty. That's all right for seventeen. Fifty. I inside. Boss. The new Emily from steps put together. I would have been faster. Russell did no training and a really good time. He's like a with it. He's very he's quite buffet fit. Though. He's going more recently. Yes. Yeah. He's a manorexic. Obsessed like he thinks he's going to die. So if he's got muscles. He'll not die last. All are gonna die. You have snow that he's got obsession with wearing wetland. But like my dad the assassin. Light. It's weird was Daniels. A hot mess. P knows. He knows we the minute. You said he works in IT. We had to. Like Russell Howard. Seeing a desk for awhile. Do you have any good ambassad stories about Russell from his childhood that you've not revealed before that you? Because he said loads about you when he came on the. Nothing may. I mean we used to play. Well, like, they they were the twins. And I was the weird girl that used to talk to myself in the mirror that was our family dynamic. But every now and again, Russell Kerry to come out and play football this. You can be go like. So I'd run out and I put socks so my hands for gloves. And here's when they let me play football. I four I was so good in go because I always stop the ball with my head. This game. And then I went to school, and I was like football. I I was. Eddie goes 'cause they weren't aiming at me. Story. True story kids, very cruel for siblings. Very very like Donya wants pillow in my face and tried to kill me. That's normal, right. It is if you've you know, if you force someone out of the womb. Nice fan. Plus, it flossy can't stop it say, I can see what the anger came from. Well, look nearly going after wrap up because I have the drive for two and a half hours after this. And that's on. And that's on. What's that about? What's coming up? What's coming to the you mentioned a couple of things is that stuff? You can talk about I yeah, I'm doing a remake of Four Weddings and a funeral. I'm in that. But it's for hula for America. So that anyone's gonna watch it like a tiny bit by bit diff- Matteo back in. I just had a baby right? I'm writing got myself script commission. Sunny for pilot. But you never know. No lever. Make it. You. All of these things have been made is incredible. So even when many Konta two or three. Yeah, more. So that's such as exactly such a weird business in terms of you. Commission. Yeah. Oh. Oh, pilot Gomer. A series. They don't want any. And so there's never know my family. What's happened? My career. But he would have cooled it to proper. Yeah. It'd be interesting to see in ten years time. We'll happens. Well, extremely good. You definitely second best person. I saw that job with the. I asked as long as the person cool. They. She's very, so you're amazing. If you haven't seen carry stuff do check out. It's all online that you can say this stuff so much. I should have merged. I didn't know we were sending. Help me run my shop after. We like working. You can see just in the street walking around. I've around just coming to me shops at coop. Chang's roundabout women off the ten goes around the world with some. If you see me with my month lease ask for selfish. She will lose her fucking. That will make she she will talk about that for months on a stage. She'd just get capped enough. She leads it in her life. I'll keep her ten more years. And I meet those ten years for childcare. You're helping me. Let's give it up. She's one of yours carry. Listening to the media with me repairing my best carry our best. Also, everyone and everybody go Busta stripe. And also everyone cast they've been nice to. I'm ben. Walker? Thank you very much. The stripe dot com and type potato production. Why not go to STA co don't you to find out more about what this costs about and design up to become a monthly bad and get loads of extra stuff.

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Summer Reading 2020

Backlisted

57:43 min | 7 months ago

Summer Reading 2020

"Instead. The? Chauhan's Hands. Of Children. Please stay safe. Hello everyone and welcome to the bat listed summer reading special. That we have done these before. This is a submarine special for a collection of books that you might like to rely on holiday or if you not going on holiday if you're just staying home matches, you have those three of us. That's that's okay to taking the controversial staycationing, which still in these parts means staying at home rather than simply taking a holiday in the UK, which is what we used to call when we were children a holiday. So. We're having a few weeks off to catch up with our reading. Oviously always. So. This upset about list is a bit different. It's partly some new stuff you done her before. And, Paulie some things which are patriots subscribers with heard as part of the. Patriot cost luckless, which is like listed and we talk about books on it, but we also talked about films and music things off and. On it Nikki's. Point. Through a stool, rather than Stole no sang is three legs. As opposed to a hurdle or something. Yeah. Ever has two legs that you can sit on which you can tell you this fence. Sold it all these hanging out with talking about great Roy is really affected. So. So magically, this is a a selection of books that we've read over the last few months during the lockdown and it's got some of my choices and it's got Wisconsin from nor Perkins appear with earlier in the year it's got some of John's choices. Some of the things Nikki's been reading. She's GonNa talk you through those as well. I'M GONNA ethics links we've them altogether it's a miscellany. Miscellany a of of of literary highlights. Yeah. So if you. If you subscribe to patron the patron dot com Ford slash battling the reason why we do this we should just clarify this should Patriot pays for that listed. We don't have sponsorship the people who gives a bit of money stupid stairs. That's why everyone gets to listen about listed. So we're very grateful down. As a an extra thing if you subscribe to the Patriots, we also produce a couple of episodes of a month of luckless did which is to him about books but other things that we've been watching or listening to or thinking about and what we found is First of all recording, them has been great for us during lockdown. It's just been fun for us to get together and do that. But, also, the bat listed episodes in the lot listed episodes at is to have a conversation with one another. So. Some of the books that we've talked about enlisted of wound up in bat listed and vice versa maybe I should clarify that because obviously we know Battisti does cost it does cost money to to make. and. Unbounded been amazing at underwritten out for four years but we were getting to the point and covid really meant that. it was it was impossible from go on. Being the the sole sponsor of Palestine, the patron was our. was really our way. We will always have a a free podcast for people to download, but that's just seem to be the right moment for us to to us the people who we know love and support what we do to To go to the next stage and it's been, we've been amazed by the response. One of the really nice things about being in the lowest listeners is you're listening on Patriot as sort of a place that you can comment on the show and that's been really nice because actually this people have been. For example, you're going to hear in this program have been sending in their versions of the listed theme tunes and like it's been amazing. Isn't it? All been response people have given US literally blown away. Every patron is like Austrian royalty. Sponsoring Mozart's in. His. Production of fine music that the world can enjoy. So we're very grateful to you princes and princesses who have allowed us to keep making this thing. So we hope you enjoy this special back listed lot listed back Mrs ooh. ooh. Andy what have you been reading this week? Okay. So I've been reading a book called a novel Kohl's a helping hand by Celia Dale, which was published by Macmillan in nine hundred and sixty six currently available from faber fines and this is the final. Choice over fulmer guests, Becky, Brown, nor Perkins who joined us back in April for our episode on Bobby Pin and longtime recall we office into pitch a couple of books each because when we met them to discuss the upset at the start of the year they they can't help themselves. They just pitch naturally and they recommend this several great books which we've talked about on this podcast, and so here's the final one before I, say anything about helping hand by CDL here is our guest newer perkins. We had to cut this out of the original episode for reasons of time but issues now, and I've just oster to pitch in a thirty seconds a helping hand by CDO. Celia Dale actually worked for critics brand briefly longtime ago and was Rumer Godden Secretary for a time. So there's a lot of different connections Celia Dale I knew him running into my twenty seconds but they're but they're with me and what she wrote she wrote novels a out the isolated, the fragile the elderly people who were couldn't really cope with the modern world who are at risk in some way and they're sort of crime novels, but they're the. Kind of crime that is deeply malevolent and sends chills. Your souls are about the really worst worst kind of people who unveiled their way into people's lives and take advantage of them and steal from them and ultimately killed them and take over their identities and their lives. But it's all about people taking advantage of the elderly of the isolated and right now in a world where we have so many people isolated and at risk, it feels extra extra horrible. A year in prevalence the. was so I I must say I think assisted this time. But so I read this novel back in early February when we were just in the process of moving my mom into her new home, which is an old people's home, and so it was already quite. Coy at a delicate book for me to be reading plus we've had the lockdown and my mom is doing okay touch with which is good. But really this novel by Celia Dial, it's thriller. It very much focuses on the on the worst of human nature. As Celia del seem to like to she was very popular. She wrote Thirteen novels a collection storage shed many radio, and TV adaptations. She lived to nearly a hundred years old. She died only in twenty eleven and. What she liked to Roy the bouts. Often was. Vulnerable People in society being preyed upon. Nine hundred and seventy one adult corner. I haven't read it. I was just reading the synopsis and it sounds incredible. It sounds like a cross between a bulb re pimm novel and entertaining. MR, Sloane. This awful psycho-drama where a stranger comes to lodge in a house and seems to destroy everything around him. She has something in common as Roy. So I would say with Patrick Hamilton or be senior frame listeners familiar with CVS feminine and she was known as the Queen of the suburban terrorist story. Celia Dale and what a helping hand is about. is about the I mean it's it is a real page Turner extremely creeping, but this is fundamentally about the vulnerability of the elderly. So every little anxiety or nightmare. You might have about an elderly relative and who might be exploiting women preying on them is laid out in two hundred brisk pages a main I found a tough read but also As people say. Put it down. And all becky and. Numerous recommendations have been really good and listeners with picks up on them and I talked last time about fixing landscape by bearing it was terrific book. Totally different. Terrain. For. Helping hand no less gripping. You will want to know what happens. Even you won't you want to look away at the same time. So I won't read a bit because I feel even reading a tiny bit is to give a spoiler. If you read it I just WanNa drop pugh in this. Maisonette. Near Heathrow Airport. Where you like the elderly lady who's just been dropped off That becomes your world. It's almost like. By Stephen King. But. It set in slow. I can't offer her a higher recommendations about. So that's a helping hand by Celia Dale currently imprint fromm. Favor fines or from your usual Internet. Secondhand Book Dealers Mitch What Have you been reading this week. I've been reading a very short nonfiction book by the Antiguan Writer. To Make Kincaid first published in nineteen, eighty eight, it's called a small place and it's a book about the island the Kombi an island antiga comes from. And it's been republished by don't books in a very attractive. As over books are very attractive addition with a new introduction from Jamaica kincaid herself. She was born in one, thousand, nine, hundred nine, and she left Antigua as a as a as a teenager and has really. been known as North American writer since then she has written she's written for the New Yorker for the last thirty years and more. She's been five novels, collection stories but I just pick this up because somebody had mentioned it to me as being a book about the Carribean I've been kind of interested in the Caribbean and how little we know as English, people tools about Caribbean history I. Guess you know influenced by the roiling protests. In discussions of that US monthly so and it does everything you would want it salmon Rushdie Kuldeep Jeremiad. It's an angry brilliantly focused portrait of an island. She goes back and explains the inner logic of what it's like to come from somewhere small. Some that was former colony somewhere, which is it has has been basically run by the same political party for most of the period post-colonial period says corruption there is sort of sinister kind of industrial. Plants on the island really what sets it apart is her pros, which she tells the story in kind with directness and a kind of an elegance, which is very, very difficult to. Very. Difficult. To describe unless you're reading, it has almost kind of a story book You know kind of the kind of store you tell a child to to send it to sleep at night, but it's it's absolutely not going to set that he wanted to sleep because it is there is an anger in it, but somehow the the the the precision of a writing means that the anger is is is always qualified. I'm going to read you really really tiny bit because one of the reviews at the read it said, if you want to know anything about anti-gay, you get more in this eighty page book than a whole shelf of guidebooks to tell you about the reality of living in a small place. Now a nothing I think has changed. She said she she originally wrote it. She said the Taylor beauty and governed goodness I wanted to write for Mr. Shawn. That's William Shawn of the New Yorker I could not find in me instead I found my way at the beginning of a road away of understanding my world as it began in fourteen ninety two. So here's just a little bit about tourism. I also thought this might appeal to you andy because of its it's she's not a fan of the tourist. This is the tourist saying they do not like me. That thought never actually occurs to you. Still. You feel a little uneasy. Still you feel a little foolish still feel a little out of place, but the banality of your own life is very real to you. It drove you to this extreme spending days and nights in the company of people who despise you people you do not really like really people you would not want to have as your actual neighbor, and so you must devote yourself to puzzling out how much of what you were told is really really true is ground up bottle glass in peanut sauce really a delicacy around here. Do just what you think ground up. Bottle Gospel. Is this rare multicolored snap mounts fish really enough for does iak or will it cause you to fall asleep permanently? Oh, the hard work of all this, and is it any wonder then on your return home you feel the need of a long rest so that you can recover from the live your life as a tourist. That the native does not like the tourist is not hard to explain for every native of every place is a potential tourist and every tourist is a native of somewhere. Every native everywhere lives the life of overwhelming and crushing banality and boredom and desperation and depression, and every deed good and bad is an attempt to forget this. Every native would like to find a way out every native would like arrest every native would like a tour. But some natives most natives in the world cannot go anywhere. They are too poor. They are too poor to go anywhere they too poor to escape the reality of their lives and they are too poor to live properly in the places where they live, which is the very place you the tourist want to go. Of the native see you the tourists they envy you. They envy your ability to leave your own banality and boredom. They envy your ability to turn their own banality and boredom into a source of pleasure for yourself. L. That would right? It's Brilliant. It's a brilliant brilliant at I mean even if you don't think you're interested in Antigua Oh. You're not kind of post-colonialism she should come to still it's A. Scorch is off the page. So I was reading about this John. So this has been published in the UK just been republished by books in the UK. When she turned this in at the New Yorker then as the New York, aerobic gottlieb turned it down, right? Yeah. He says too hot for them to publish. That's right and then she ended up getting it published as all books being by Farah, Strategy Rousseau and she was banned. In exchange for a small place she was she says, she was effectively banned from Antigua. For five years. It was made clear to her that she was not welcome because she had. You know. Dirt they didn't want dug up or or add dirty linen they didn't want to add. Yeah. So you re this really makes me want to read it actually. It sounds it sounds really great. I've talked too much already. have. You Been Reading Nikki I'll going. To using books, I really like them read them. have. You. Read a boy in the water by tone, Gregory are have notes. I have not read a boy and. They signed that you might know the story because it was It was written about a couple of years ago on the BBC website and basically it's the story of a boy cool Tom Gregory it is him. When he was eleven years old, he swam the channel. And it's his story of how and why he did this Asian eleven he lived in Elton any it was a local swimming club that he saw his cousin said come down. Him and assist to win and it wasn't just any swimming club. It was just run by one of these absolute maverick kind of legends that you know you don't. You don't come across these days he just does their own thing. And basically takes kids and makes swim longest K.. Competitive here. Do this when is this in in one thousand, nine, hundred, eight and. And he and this this dude is not competitive. This is he's got no kids. This man is like a loner not they don't know anything about this guy apart from. And and he becomes a sort of like a surrogate parent. Tom And he joins the club when he's seven or eight, the book starts with him in swimming the channel in is on its gums back to know the whole channel crossing. But then retail's kind of how he go incident and it's one of those books that you Kinda he oversee caught have this amazing recall, but it doesn't matter because the story so good. I don't care if he's made it up, he hasn't made out but like the detail. And the carrots lovely and. Base he swims the channel after having for example, when they decide he's going to swim the channel. He's not allowed to and have a hot shower for six months he has to sleep. Yes. Asleep vehicles body used to cut a coach. It's. Winter with window wide open based like ten or eleven. Year. Thing and then, and he has to he his by swimming the whole length of Windermere, which is insane. Ted Very. Long. Fourteen miles or something. Anyway he basically. Amazingly, amazingly, he manages to sit in the channel and there's only a few hundred people at this time. You've ever won the channel. He's eleven years old, which is a bunkers because I have an eleven year old who barely leave his room. And, the other thing that he has to do is he has to get fats. Yes. So He's put on this diet anything announcer you know have any woman showers will seat with any clothes on he has to Ethan. Law. You know. So He's put on a diet of like train lots e log because the fatty you are. You're going GONNA say by keeping room to they didn't slap him. We supposed to be covering deuce fat yes. Lead trumpet in Fat Classing An. And he's not wear a wet suit. It's still worth reading. You know the whole story because itself oversee does it. Gets. Broken the world record by located from Eltsin's broken the world record the youngest, and then they basically ban any kids under sixteen from F- assuming the channel again. So he's GonNa. Forever I think. That's a great story. It's amazing book that really reminds me of that brilliant little pseudo documentary film one of those documentary films that she used to do a lot. There's a brilliant one. In Victoria Wood as seen on TV where Victoria would plays a thirteen or fourteen year old girl who is training to swim the channel. Nobody cares about how that's the joke at she she's. Rubbing fat on in her bedroom and parents aren't really interested. The, the the camera crew terribly entrusted but she suits but she's doing it. Anyway I wonder if that was inspired by the story because the timing is about right yeah. Eighteen. Yeah he gone blue pizza you know he. Probably does. Go Batch right must've? He's actually cocoa patch. He did an what's great is this all about the relationship between this man and him? You know about kind of This amazing bond they had. But. The was very clear. You know don't get big headed is a lot of that. You know you know just the Channel Mate you know to me. So bigheaded during eleven years old. Yeah It's lovely. Anybody's. Rights. Great actually in the woods at some greg raise really being those Tom Gregory I've been reading I've been reading a novel called the Ant Hill by Julian. Pacheco. Who you loved last time yet, her book which is called the lucky ones, which is a was published in this country as a book of short stories, but in America as a novel. because the stories are linked to one another, she's half Columbian That book was largely set in Columbia and this new novel her first novel is set in Columbia. And she is another one of the royces. That we vaguely know who've been working for years on the other their debut novel lights novel who have had the great misfortune to publish it. Roy into the middle of a period where no bookshops are open. So this was this was supposed to come out. Two months ago. But I think it held until we recall when are we recording this third you law? So I think it might be out this week. finally, it's very good. There's not about coming. On just trying to think it's difficult to tell you. What it's about nutshell It's about Carrots Lena who. Grew up in Columbia but left when she was still a child. She was friends. With a boy called Mattie. She comes back. She hasn't seen him for twenty years and he's running a like youth center. Fifth Street kids. Called the anthill. But as the reunion goes on both the reunion and the narrative get stranger and strange. and. This was one of those novels that for the first two hundred over his three, hundred pages I was thinking. Okay, well. Yeah. This is good. This is well written and I wanNa know what happens next and but it seems quite straight. and. Then the last hundred pages if I had time I would have been immediately going back to the beginning and starting again. She takes all sorts of risks and swerves with the theme characters in the. Narrative. And I ended up you know the where you might. Donna whether you do this. Often it for me it right down to the last page. I will mentally upgrade it as soon as I finish it. So, they'll be extents which I've enjoyed it and I've enjoyed actually reading it but I need to get to the end to be able to take an overview of what the Reuter was trying to do whether they whether they pull it off. So this is one of those books I really recommend this actually I thought about it a lot since I finished it. Does she running? Yes. Yes. She writes in English. Yes. She she lives in the UK. She writes in English I mean she's had stories in the New Yorker. Yeah, yeah she's published by Faber Sh-. I. Imagine though I don't know that this is an highly autobiographical book on one level, but also novel about the relationship between. Colombia and America, I, think you can probably read it as as A. On an allegoric level. But again, that didn't become. I intended to become clear to you immediately, she wants you to connect with the story and then once the stories got you, she starts taking you so much more disturbing an unexpected and dare I say thoughtful places. So yeah. The anthill then she said that I would recommend the. Law. I've been listening to a lot of music to be honest I've been I've been also reading a being trying to educate myself like a lot of people making lists of particularly of of Contemporary Black Churches Philly ought to reading and I kind of read I do read pretty broadly anyway but there's been so many fantastic lists of recommendations in ingesting to and froing on on twitter and various other social media platforms. So the one that have read in this last week, which are really really recommend and like an I'm delighted to see. Our our former guest, pretty Tunisia who was a chair of the judges for the Desmond. Elliott which is one of the best first novel debut novel prizes in the UK They announced the shortlist this week, and there were three books on it and they rule by by royces including this the one the I've been reading, which is that reminds me by Derek, wizard he's a podcast and a writer and sort of a mental to to lots of other flat rises. He's written his first novel, and that was as I is a debut novel and it was shortlisted for this prize and it's short. It's I think beautifully done. It's a sort of buildings Roman it's that. The novel of about the development of the young, a young man Kei who is. Born to Ghanaian parents in London, he's fostered the ends up in a village. He then is He kind of doesn't like the village at first, but he gets used to it, and then he comes back into a into nineties Tottenham It's about his relationship with his mother, his his absent mostly father. His his and his brother and he struggles. He falls into depression and and self Homs. All of that might sound very very bleak but it's done beautifully over five sections is a very UN bleak book I have to say I thought the writing it's beautiful and Without giving it away I think he he comes to the character K. comes to a place at the end of the book where. He's. Kind of transcended much of the of the stuff that he's been through. So I don't know I mean it's full of great stuff about contemporary London. I've read a tiny little bit from it because it just gives you the flavor of of how how he how he writes and how he does it as. It's five sections very, very small, very, very small chapters very. As beautifully written and and kind of memorable. This is about his mum who is a cleaner in a school? The flat speaks it's night voices and she responds with their own absent minded murmurings. The kettle bubbles and the rising boil sounds and brings to mind the waters of Akra. Donna a memory of something she never experienced. When she go back and stand before the tide she imagined as a child walters that ignore boundaries and smother signs that eventually lead back. To skyscrapers distant from her and imagined the Ghanaian Garden City of Kumasi to traditional a young mind tuned to western standards of living. The T is too hot but she's acclimatized fitting. Only a familiar sensation forgetting to register it as pain. It's four thirty, a m the bus comes in two minutes, but she'd rather be late than risk toppling over. To help her up in the morning mister, the lights of her own home. The school in which she works is quiet. You'd never know children ran up and down these corridors. So attentive she to the floor like wiping food from a child's face showing it gentleness she's always given but never received. dustbowl hums in her throat. The words never coming for fear a teacher might pass and think are unfit for work. It's been twenty years and she's weary the early morning wind feeling like a breeze visiting the edge of a cliff. Humming is in sync with thoughts cleaning ship from toilets transforms into arms race to the sky praising at the feet of an Almighty. God. Through everything, there sits her savior. She's finished by seven thirty and then she walks out of the building teacher says Ello on your way. She smiles no words. Her gentle hum is enough to think all is okay. Sorry. It's just it's it's a lovely book a on a very, very I mean really lovely debut and I'm. A couldn't recommend it highly. Is Cool. That reminds me and it's published by a murky books. She's storms imprint one of one of one of the first stones from Croydon exactly storms from Croydon, and of course, you know people's cynically saying all the books know other books on that list goodwill if this is anything to go by that is a really, really good. first, novel names got had great reviews and It's an essay on the prize shortlist and I think. Brave brave of the of the of the judges maybe to to to take that standard. Absolutely. Right. It's. It's. It's great because these bugs there's no special pleading these books deserve to be the three books shortlisted. I'd be particularly interested in hearing from many harpists. That would be quite good when net that would be nice. Yeah. Yeah. Usually instruments would be we'll be my swelled. Mickey will even Reedie speaking of Hates. Hope things you've been reading about things. Yeah a half. Ashley. I've been reading the Ice Palace a does she know how you pronounce the author's name Tall J. Visas you know John do ninety how you pronounce his name. But I'm sure. Actually. Yeah. So he east quite kind of a famous accounts Norwegian author I'm poets. Yes. So I mean I I don't know anything about him but I was recommended my friend who I just go into listening to bat listed and she said Ooh, you should do the Ice Palace. She said is an amazing film about this as well. So you know I like recommendation and also even better it's super slim which I also like. I say you using a five pound note as a book as well yeah. Well, it's just because I thought I might read something. He's not he's not addition is is not a Peter Owen is that statue I was the original trump published in early? Penguin moten. Classic. With a great with a review on the back from offering Max Porter says. To isn't the most famous book in the world. It's quite big quite big sentence statement saying that. Those lessing says how simple this novelist? How Subtle? How strong how unlike any other it's unique is unforgettable. It's extraordinary. Sounds amazing. Yeah. So I said he would read the blurb 'cause that might do better job than me them explaining it. She was close to the edge now, the ice latest hand upon her. The school children call at the Ice Palace a frozen waterfall in the Norwegian fjords transformed into fantastic structure of translucent walls, sparkling towers, and secret chambers. It fascinates two young girls, lonely earn and lively cysts who strike up an intense friendship. When undecideds to explore the Ice Palace alone and doesn't return SIS must try to cope with the loss of her friend without succumbing to a frozen world her own making. And that an and basically what it? Yeah. What is these two friends? who only become friends one day they've only talked to the day but it so moving their kind of one days experience. When one goes missing the other one just completely loses everything and what's really quite intensive as she goes missing you follow her. She goes to the ice policy. She's a frozen waterfall. The whole thing set in oversee in Inouye Windsor. So everything's very cold and she goes to this frozen wars falling goes exploring but you follow her in that process you effectively watch her. Die. You know it's not giving much away here, but you know she and then and then it's the other one coming to terms with it and it so poetic and who does it remind you of? Which, which book which Roy? Why didn't they? I can say I'm not clever enough to say at all you. Don't hang out of it. I suppose. Is a little bit like Lonnie is a good example. I'd say or ill it's there's lots of space there you know and and it's all. It's sort of about the pros rather than necessarily you know the story and intensity of Ood an any sort of you feel like you're swept along in this. Beautiful. Yeah, you felt your third reading, not just a story, but it kind of yeah a poem as well. It's. It's beautiful. I. Can recommend on a similar Max Porter Related Recommendation because it was Maxxie recommended to me and it sounds quite snot similar exactly as has has certain qualities sign. A very shoot Icelandic novel. But soon. Cooled the Blue Folks Nikki which I will send you know of Kazan's. You might really like that from what you just said about the ice. Palace you can't about that on a very early backlist because I seem to remember we were on a kind of weird. I see Jag because I talked about the winter book by two months as well. was when I went to. Iceland. That's right. Even doing this. Of. Decades ago. But yeah, I ost I ask people for recommendations of books boy always Landik Reuters about Ostlund and that was one of the ones that came up is terrific. Terrific Book. Nikki Reed Spit. Okay. Is this I I I I right. So I'll read bit from when said his own insists the two friends basically they've they've met the Friends of Matt and they've had this kind of electric meeting and it slightly freaked them out and is free own out so much 'cause she's never had any friends before then the she decides she can't go into school the next day to meet SIS because she so kind of overwhelmed by it. So she size skip school on a winter's Day in. Norway. And go and see the Ice Palace, which is the the frozen waterfall, and so this is her heading there, and so she's going you know she can hear the sounds of the woodfull. The role was suddenly stronger. The river began to quicken speed flowing in yellow channels. Earn ran down the slope alongside in a silvered confusion of heather and grass tusks an occasional tree amongst them. The role was stronger thick walls of spray rose up roughly in front of her she was at the top of the falls. She stopped short as if about to fall over the edge. So abruptly, did it appear? To. Waves went through her first the paralyzing cold then the reviving warmth as Hatton's on great occasions. And was there for the first time. No one had asked her to come here with them during the summer. Auntie had mentioned that there was a waterfall no more. There have been no discussion of it until now in the late autumn at school off the Ice Palace had common was worth seeing. What was this? It must be the Ice Palace. The Sun disappeared there was a ravine with steep sides somewhat perhaps reach into later but now it was an ice cold shadow. unlooked down into an enchanted world of small pinnacles, Gables frosted domes, soft curves, and confused trae Serie. Wolves ice and the water spurted between building up early branches of the Waterfall Basin started rushed into new channels creating new forms. Everything Shem. The son had not yet come but it sean ice blue in green of itself and deathly code. The waterfall plunge into the middle of it as if diving into a black Selah. Up on the edge of the Rock, the water spread out in stripes the color changing from black to green from green tea yellow and white as the fool became walder. The booming came from the cellar hole with water dashed itself into white foam against the stones on the bottom. Huge puffs of missed rose into the air. And began to shout for joy. It was drowned in the surge and din just as warm clouds of breath of swallowed up by the cold. Spoon. The spoon and the spray at each side did not stop for an instant but went on building minute then surely though frenziedly. The water was taken out of its course to build with the help of the frost larger tool alcoves, passages, and alleyways, and domes of ice above them far more intricate and splendid than anything on ever seen before. She was looking right down on it. She had to see it from below and she began to climb down the steep rimmed slope that the side of the woodfull. She was completely absorbed by the palace. So stupendous appear to her. Only, when she was down at the foot of it does she see it as a little girl on the ground with sit and every scrap of guilty conscience vanished. She could not help thinking that nothing had been more right to go there. The Enormous Ice Palace proved seven times bigger and more extravagant from this angle. From here, the I swore seemed to touch the sky. They grew as she thought about them, she was intoxicated. The place was full of wings and targets how many it was impossible to say. The water swell in all directions and the main waterfall plunge down in the middle, keeping a space cliff itself. There were places that the water had abandoned. So they were completed shining and dry. Others were covered in sperm and water drops and trickling moisture than a flash turned into blue-green ice. It was an enchanted palace. She must try to find a way in the. It was bound to be full of curious passages and doorways and she must attend. It looks so extraordinarily that been forgot everything else as she stood in front of it. But she was aware of nothing but her desire to enter. Them. you got the job is wonderful. You've got the job. Thanks. Both beautifully read Nikki. That sounds really right on the streets really good I. Think you both Shit like it. But that really reminds me of the French through Jens and phenomena it actually that. Child no it's not so much the scan. The NAVIEN elements is the child's perspective on the beautiful thing as it as it. As, she is to to describe it for us. I was grinding. What's so chilling about two is the you sort of know that she's going to her death you know not makes it more when you're reading it and I know you Kinda know this because it's given away at the bag and so. Is quite heartbreaking. You know because it stays with her. You know who the way. And as she enters into the palace deeper and deeper, it's pretty it's pretty it's pretty amazing. and. That's available in the shops now for. Seven pounds ninety. Nine. So I've got a thing here I'd love to tell you the. I've got a clip of Sylvia Townsend Warner reading around work, but he's not. GonNa be it's GonNa have to me unfortunately I'm sorry. So I've been reading a collection English climate wartime stories by Sylvia Townsend Buna. We did lally wiry reading. We did lally willows on an early episode of battling stage. Returns and wounds I know. And I recommended the coon of held them farm woj as a good book perfect novel to read during the lockdown. And been awhile since I've read something by Vitanza born and I noted possessively had just published this volume of stories that Sylvia Townsend wrote. but it's been published and. by Pacific and by Lydia fell gates. possessively. So, this collection has never been published before and so prolific Sylvia. Townsend Warner that most of these stories. The, not all of them were published in the, New Yorker. And four of them. Appeared, in the New Yorker in nineteen forty to nineteen, forty three and have never been reprinted since edited by William Maxwell this but this is the first time these. Appeared in print since a magazine, you couldn't get in the UK very easily in those years. So Have never been available in the UK Sylvia. Townsend. Warner was extremely good at writing. And it's just been you also Nikki Wall. Read it. It's because I needed to read something. Needed to read the opposite of the thing I was talking about. You know where I wanted to seek to understand it. I would need something I didn't need to seek to understand that I just got. With went straight to the pleasure. And I love Soga towns, wounds, pros, and her facility with the sentence so much that for me is like. If you know if I went to the beach, this would be a beach street. Also. The. Also their suits them. It's good to read stuff on the home front in the second level during a book combat listed soon. By mfg physical, how to cook a wolf, which was originally published in the Second World War, and one of the reasons we're doing combat listed his because it's about how you make the most out of difficult situations. And so a lot these different stories Soviet Tanzim Warner Rice about a lot how to cook a wolf by him F K Fisher there actually are actually about that. How do you? How do you keep going? How do you keep buggering on? So I thought I'd do is read you one of the stories. In its entire rain since Harthi. Did you mean that Nikki? UNCONVINCED I. Well I have this problem, and actually my son picked this up I have the same tone of voice when I'm being sarcastic is. I've noticed. And it's up to you the listener to try work. I mean to you if you found this difficult to read. I just don't like it I just. Seem very negative. I just think you're not understanding what I'm saying negative person I thinking how grace it would be to have a whole story red snake. Well, that's going to happen pull up a chair everyone. Okay. So this story is caught, my shirt is in Mexico. Loving it already and it was written. On the fourth of January nineteen forty one. and. Published in the New Yorker in the same year. So he got my shit is in Mexico. As soon, as the train left, London, we went along to the buffet cough a drink. The train was crammed a wartime train loaded with soldiers and with parties, women and children travelling inland to get away from air. Raids. It was difficult to move along the corridor one hundred to age. One's way past soldiers sitting there packs heaps of hand luggage train sick children being held after the window people queued up sheepishly outside the toilets. But the buffet car was empty and looked like something belonging to a different world. With its clean light painted walls and Red Leather? Upholstery. We sat down at the little table, and presently the attendant came along with the tariff code. He was a middle aged man with a good face innocent and humane like a rabbits. When I said I'd like a cup of black coffee with rum in its he made no difficulties though it was not down on the list. Coming back without drinks he looked as though we were already friends of his the rum was in a measuring class and as he put it into my coffee, he said, excuse me mentioning it Madam but I see from your bag you've been in Mexico. His voice was full of confidence and excitement. For a moment I wondered if I shouldn't take a chance on it that I was feeling tired and unsure of my power. So I said, honestly, no such luck the bag has, but it's only alone. Now we all looked at the label which was printed with gave you a flowers in white clothes tourists riding on festooned. And thinking how hard it must be for a man who apparently wanted to go to Mexico to spend his life traveling in a buffet car from Plymouth to London and back again I said that the friend who owned the bag had liked Mexico very much. Oh. Yes. It must be a wonderful country. He said all those hothouse flowers growing wild and the volcanoes and the Mexicans making such wonderful artistic things and everything. So old and yet in a manner of speaking only just beginning building roads and learning to read and getting vaccinated. Sensible Beginnings said, Valentine. Yes that's right. Oh I would like to go to Mexico. It must be beautiful. Because his shirt in Mexico he said. How did that happen? I asked your one up on me. I haven't got anything in Mexico. It's an uncommon thing to say, isn't it oil shares now or a cousin that's to be expected, but not a shirt it all happened before the war because of German gentlemen a refugee I noticed him the moment he came in he sat down at that table over there and I thought to myself. Now he's somebody a bold man and thin as a `let's and most remarkably clean bowled but not elderly, you understand presently he the large coffee and a slice of cake well, that didn't tell me much except a nice manner and a German accent. But when I brought along his order, he his wallet and there were his paper spread out a single to plymouth and a third class steam steamer passage. To Mexico No to New York with didn't say anything I could take hold off but I'd still got to call it up my sleeve. That was the ashtray needed empty when I went to change it. He said he didn't smoke now I don't smoke either. So that was the beginning and once you've got to beginning it's easy. Isn't he's from smoking we got round to sea sickness and then I could ask him if he crossed the Atlantic no said he but now I shall. Living in. Plymouth. Naturally, I know a lot about New York so I could tell him things. He'd he'd find useful pudding being cold desserts and luggage baggage and how you can check it through he laughed and said, he'd be able to carry all his. I could see my way to the shirts now. Yes. Just a suitcase and what he stood up inch what you take away for a weekend and he was going to America for Good Dole but not worried in the least what's more he seems so pleased with what he had got made me feel he's suit to see what goodwill it was and told me all about a wonderful pair of pajamas he'd been given and you could tell from the way he spoke the he was the sort of gentlemen who knows about close quite a dandy. In fact, he said straight out his shoes were a disappointment to him. They were gift to and he was quite right. They were very poor. Then, all of a sudden it flashed on me, he could have my. It was very nice shirt providential really I brought it that very morning carried it down with me. I always like to buy my shirts in London you get a better style. Well, he wasn't the sort of man you can have pretenses with. So I told him straight out I'd like him to take my shirt. Wasn't I lucky to have it with me though? You were said Valentine I can't wish anyone better luck than that. Yes, and he accepted it so pleasantly. But what I liked best was the way opened the parcel and looked at the shirt most Catholic how the buttons and on an all examined it all over. He did if he had just taken the parcel that wouldn't have been the same thing. Would it? And now he's in Mexico. Oh No, he's in New York. It's the shirt. That's Mexico with a friend of his look. This is the letter he wrote me from new. York. Often read. Always carefully re folded. The thin sheet of paper already had the air of something beginning to be historic. March the Eleventh Nineteen thirty nine. Dear friend. I have to tell you how have made good journey and unsettled here in New York City. And I have meet other friends also, and I find some work shortly. and. The beautiful shirt you gave me it is not ungrateful that I bestow to comrade going to Mexico when he has great need deny a do not forget kindness I hope you are well and always make new friends I. Thank you again. Cool Dilly. Been noticed Leutner. PS. New York is very fine. You must feel happy about that shirt I said I do he replied it was a blue one. Just right. For Sunny climates I've always wanted to go to Mexico. So. If you like the sound of that and you want another twenty of those then English climate wartime stories is available direct from possessively who a mailing out books and you are an independent bookshops they should buy it from them on the internet or on the phone. Well. Thanks everyone. I enjoyed hearing those again I didn't I will I went outside and. Well. I enjoyed hearing them and say at one of the great things about the shows you you when you record them. And you go onto the next thing you forget how many books we actually cover some. Rich Osama Gundy Of of a tasty. Book thing we refer to it was the on the last battling stood or a lowest. The. Being strapped to of wheel of faleiro wheel. So or Just. But on. But we like to grumble bed but the burden on the other hand. I was looking back at what I've read over the last couple of years. Just in terms of the so we've been working on the varieties of religious experience. There's no way I would have read that now there's no way would elected to read it and it was such A. A great experience to then talk about it. serendipitous thing of the guest recommending stuff, and suddenly there is a spark and you think, yes. Yes. That I've always meant to write read, but probably would have a woodside. Great. Thank God thanks worth mentioning is if you haven't subscribed lot listed but you are interested in the shows kind of this is to me it's worth saying that the last episode we did was just about books. We read his children, which is a really really great, and the next one is about books we read as teenagers so not doesn't excite you You know what's GonNa Cause I it said brigades in very nostalgic unlocking those teenage secrets, Nicki. If anyone's worry, we haven't talked about JD salinger. On those listed episode, I would. You need to go to patron dot com for slash spotless did not find us. We'll be pleased to see that and everyone will be pleased that you've helped contribute kate this thing on the road. So thank you very much. Thank you hugely. Here. Just. Wanted to say thanks to listen to lock listed who responsible for little bits of music you heard in today's show clever people who've recorded their own versions of the bat listed same June and sent them into US via the patron. So. You heard arrangements of the backless Dec- music boy listeners, Nick Riddle, and another one sent him by Neil, Christie and one from Clare Paulson's also the Beatles sent one in which was nicer than Neil young and I am responsible for a couple of them to. Thanks very much everybody. Plenty more where those came from.

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#TSP126 - Robert Webb

The Two Shot Podcast

1:01:46 hr | 10 months ago

#TSP126 - Robert Webb

"How are you doing? I'm Craig Parkinson you. Listen to the to shop. Podcasts at yourself down public how we'RE GONNA marry. Tell child with this week. I'm going to tell you love how the lawyer while no I know. I know. He's not Thursday. It's Sunday sorry Craig. Why didn't we have focused on Thursday? Well I tell you for why and this is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I messed up. I don't know I'm hall. I'm off the we come home schooling. Okay so Monday Tuesday Wednesday I Quite literally in the thick of it is. I know you are so I recorded the show and the trial and I send over the files to graphics. Great we're all done great for Thursday. Be All Robert webs episode. Bang on I two different files to him and I said. No problem all rerecord. She do as we can. What enough find my hd card tomorrow Carter combined could I get an HD COD nope did? I want to record it on my iphone in the voice. Well yeah look. I could've done could not but he wouldn't have been lovely and nice and sonically pleasing to your ear that trying to make out there. This is a much nicer version and quality of the INTRO. So that's why but look. Why are you doing this Sunday morning? Maybe your sat down if it's lovely breakfast people or maybe you're by yourself. Jerry lockdown you've made yourself a lovely special breakfast will kick at this breakfast and listen to this episode with web more of that in one second now after a repaid. After you've listened to this I want you to do me a favor. All actually do yourself a favor a way to go to youtube wherever you are want you to go to the Barbican theater you cheap and on their Youtube Channel. You are going to watch play now. I suggest this. What chain as you watch this on a laptop or but we'll basically what you have to do. Is You have to wear headphones. It's very very important. And it's a play called the encounter complicity and it's starring Simon McBurney. Who is going to be very very special guest next week? Because we're going to do next week. I'm GONNA give you two episodes the first one being with Simon. What Pony now the encounter is only on the barbican YouTube channel from the fifteenth? I think to twenty. I is very limited time. And it's one of the most astonishing Graham break-in consuming pieces of their I've ever witnessed. I'm not overstating but you have to wear headphones. Trust me you'll understand. If you've seen any COMPA stays work in the past you will understand what I'm talking about. You don't know what you're letting yourself in for so please do that before. Simon Bernie's episode. Because we are going to talk about encounter. I don't want you to listen if you haven't seen that the play itself straight through. I think he's like maybe an hour and ten thousand. Let's say anything about all I can say is not his wall. Man With quite low at microphones on stage. And he's all about sound and storytelling. Okay that's GonNa only saying that because I went to knowing nothing at all on it blew my mind. Okay no I'm not overstating it trust me okay. So onto this week's episode it is episode Hundred Twenty Six. I think I don't know my brain still at the school. Typo still talk about maths. Which I nothing about But I had a lovely conversation with Robert Webb and of course you'll know Robert Web. If he show he's got a new book out called come again. We talked briefly about. Of course we do but that is not what the conversation argues about the compensation August obviously about the human being. The is Mr Obama. So here we cow. This is episode. Twenty six of the to show podcast with Robert Webb. Enjoy THE AD. Really strange for me during these podcast. I'm just getting my head around it because normally I got to meet people and the sit down for a cup of coffee and I can see their reaction physicality I can look in their eyes so to do this remotely. I'm just getting mad around it because it seems quite clinical. Yeah no it's really weird. I've been doing the old sort of online Book Event. Where which is an attempt to kind of simulate the way you walk into a room laws room full of people and somebody pleasant asks you questions about the book and then you also them and you do a reading and and that kind of thing done but doing those with no with an audience but way you can't see them or hear them or smell them and it's just really weird especially if you're interested in making them law and you can't you can't see or hear the audience is bizarre and you also don't know how many people listening could be five. It could be fifty. We don't know really weird so yes. I'm trying to get used to that as well but you you've got a very nice voice Craig. I'M GONNA trust in that for the time being both some of you. So that's all I'm off to a good start was talking to somebody else. That about oldest standups you now because obviously that. Yeah that livelihood has been ripped from slow to people's House and their performance stand up in their living rooms kitchens but they don't get the the to and fro with the audience that don't get the laughter. Oh the spirit enough. That must be so so difficult. We must be like running on one engine instead of four. It's killer yeah. No ON CLAMPED OF COMEDY. Show any promise four so normally trying to reform. I A little bit so I'm starting GonNa Start. Start things off with this ended with this with this. I'm going to start off so it's just a bit of a lightning round robin an either or starter or desert. Ooh these days strata vinyl or download download. Yes or no yes Saudi NI- or Sunday morning citing town country town train or plane train. Good good answer leading McCartney McCartney for being a popular answer but they will bales stones Beatles North or South North again. Good more way home. Answer the phone. Or live to voicemail leaves voicemail long bath or quick shower long back. -Til Coffee Tea passenger or driver. It depends doesn't it? I'M GONNA have to say driver winter or summer summer weekday a week and we day eight with House. Golan not really appreciate weekends more than ever. I should give the typical answer rub and the answer this not. Actually I'll give you the answer. There's almost right now. We can't Christmas Eve Christmas Day. Christmas Eve to give to receive to give Ashley I think I was about to say honestly to receive by thing I think to give the hardback or a book. And you find one fingers on buzzers. The young ones blackadder the young ones choice. Oh yes and you know in these days especially these days where we are in the UK we automatically put people into brackets and certainly when we talk about class and for those that wouldn't know they would look at you and look at your work and they would automatically make an assumption of of where you're from and and it'd be the wrong one it would have got nothing to grumble about. You know. That was kind of what I want when I was of fourteen. Fifteen charm from Lincolnshire. Which is Is Not the proper north people from the proper north detect? Your from laugh at the idea that ligature is knowledge. All these midland's really but it's way way way north of Wofford yet. We considered ourselves northern. And it's funny I'm listening. We'll hear this every now and again is zone in and out where I'm talking to someone who used a flat a WHO says Castle Castle. It will come back and just without me unless I pay attention to it because I changed my accent widdly when I was a teenager because I just didn't like literally in like Santa Monica Invoice and you mentioned the young ones. It wasn't a cost thing or shane thing to leave. I there are two things I had in my head. That people who sound Speak with a southern English accent The people pay attention when they speak or they get they. Have this unearned authority. That sort of helps in line. Somehow that was my suspicion and I think horribly I was right and secondly Most of the young ones actually I just swearing is so much more fun. It sounded so much more. Fun with accents. Vivian you bastard Just sounded so much. Funnier than Vivian. You busted because to my going out with my dad. That was the sound was just fifteen times more aggressive and more frightening so some maximum was kind of my friend and what it felt like this friend kind of playground of a of a way of talking that no one. Can you have these long as in these the other the other saying boxing set of books? But Anyway I've only got myself to blame the people on confusing accent with class. But I mean they are bound up with each other. The House I grew up in was a bungalow. We read the Daily Mirror and we drove. Second 'cause everyone had a job. No one had a career known have been to university not many books in the house Lots of raised voices about money. It was that it was a pretty standard working or maybe push a lower middle class environment and we watch blind date and it was. Yeah we would. We are normal. We would know about that. I thought that was completely. Everyone was like that so so changing my accent and also obviously the fact. I went to be obvious. Me Grammar school meant I was suddenly not surrounded exactly but they will want to people there who also spoke with this strange accent and they seemed to go on holiday to Tuscany. Instead of the custom brava and they seem to have a piano in the house and they and they didn't watch tally very often and they were talking in a completely different way about completely different subjects. Who are these mysterious creatures and it was my sort of I? Didn't I didn't instantly despise them more or fear them. There's something weird in my character that made me want to be a bit more like that and I sort of turned into something close to that and by the time was applying to university. You know eventually it was are made a pig's ear. Vanna spent a long time trying to do it but eventually going to Cambridge and at that point kind of seals. The deal doesn't it around claiming to be a working class person but that was the environment I grew up in but I was thinking because I I didn't know when this this so changed happened in our wrongly presumed that it happened around Cambridge time it was. I think my accent was my accent was halfway of the a one off way down the one. I should say by the time I was sixteen. I say and and Sort of child became southern in my heart. All middle class in my heart was pretty grudge. It was pretty graduate. I think when I got there I think the assumption was yes. My parents were graduates and artist from the hunting counties and that was absolutely bizarre in the same is kind of delighted because I was interested in as many people whether it's whether it's a classifieds thing or whatever it is are interested in reinvention or interested in presenting different sites themselves or new version of themselves. Do you think that's what you're striving for was reinvention? I think I think that's partly that was going on. I mean my mother had died when seventeen hoffer three my level so I stayed around our heads retaken I would have really screwed up. I went back to school for year. so I was I hung around linkage here for much longer than I really wanted and I think it was a with all the best will in the world that people who were there is my home and always will be but it was a rejection of this place where this unbelievably unpleasant thing had happened. And I kind of felt because she died and she was really the only member of my family who I really am with two older brothers who I love and later I added younger sister but still mom was the person I feel understood me to put in a slight pompous and teenage way and it just felt like I felt like Luke skywalker goings looking looking at. You know his aunt on fire going. There's nothing here for me now so it was. It became to represent. Tasse in this kind of thing that I want to get away from So yeah it was a gradual gradual process but The bottom Cambridge. I felt. I'll be honest with you more on that really quite suddenly than I have been done for longtime is an interesting when you you move some other that sold new and then immediately it feels like home and you find we're all we always strive to try and find our tribe and find people in June. That comes up again and again in these conversations and it came with an accompanying sense of guilt. A woman will always be that snt in. What way knocking away. It just the feeling that you've let not the team the team the team will consistently very proud of me You know what was left of my family. My Dad and my brothers. Very proud that I Fest University on Dr made it one and they couldn't quite get how cool that wasn't frankly neither of I But it but guilt in the sense that it just the something of it wrong about. It isn't it. Isn't that you come from one tribe anew anew jump ship or you or you cross over into some other kind of world I need you sort of feel I mean traits will be incredibly strong for it. But but suddenly that you've you've done something a bit weird I understand where you're coming from out lambing when I was growing up in Blackpool. There wasn't really that many people from Blackpool. I saw that we're on. The television showed whenever I get stopped. WanNa go out to black poor. Now I've been off the tally by it doesn't really I suppose after. Look it from other people's point of view when you feel that you've they failed. Always made something of himself and there is an spreads. There is a bit of Gilbert. Yeah I agree with you Robert. We bought in Boston US right. Yeah I went to Boston. I was filming in Boston. And I'd say coming from black hole. I thought it was the most terrifying places. I haven't been the years I to have any insights into Boston. Born in the hospital. That and It was a local. It was the local The biggest town wasn't Lincoln and it was the place you went. Sh- club shopping. There are sort of terrible navigates. Even I can sort of find my way and Young you go out you. Actually you know you wouldn't. You wouldn't go out there because it was too seems to be seems to be a lot of pubs. Yeah Yeah I mean I got knows what it's like now but it was. It had a reputation even even then really said Yeah. This is a deprived area. I mean it's a Nice Business. Rose who the same anywhere. Some places are doing than others but it was the reputation for your take a take care if you're going in Boston. Yeah I think it's still got it. One of the first person to walk past me had the most delicious black and bloodied soccer. I've ever seen just walking around midday. Yeah it was a very odd place at a quite an eerie air. So can you talk about growing up at school? We use someone that would throw themselves into subjects. It's tailored halls really. I was incredibly shy and quiet old through primary school As far as far as you know Marshall presence at that school was consent had a small group of friends and I was. I was was funny. I would do impressions of the teachers and I would make up the amusing to change lyrics to pop songs in Allied Baron nights if you're old enough to remember them but After that But I I was really so keep myself to myself and not really not really Estella student. Either I kinda scraped into grammar school. The mastermind primary school had a conversation with my mother saying he looked at the great The ridiculous eleven plus outdated version of IQ TESTS. That was discredited sixty ago. Anyway I was borderline mark in that. And she he said to her look. He's going to struggle grammar school always going to do quite well at the secondary what he wanted to do. She used to work for audit. I doubt he did this all the time. She's his secretary at a previous school so so they were friends and she said. I'LL ASK RUBBER. And so she asked me for some reason. I said I'd Rob a struggle grammar school and that made all the difference in the world. My brothers went to the secondary modern day school at Sixteen. So there wasn't I wasn't particularly I didn't do particularly well until sort of my third year out in what that is in new money but the third year senior school Year on thirteen something and no. That's not right yet seventy nine but when I was fourteen fifteen and suddenly things to is like the year before I saw its. Gps's things to go back. And suddenly I was you know they still have these very competitive exams where they'd take an average of all of your exam schools In Ohio subjects and give you a grading in within the full an I've been used to being seventeen thousand twenty four or fifteen thirty and suddenly I was always in the top three. Why why the change do you think? Was it something that you are conscious of there was there was a change in form? Teacher was MRS slights. It became our form teacher and I just relaxed. For some reason that was something about the icon but that she understood and we go along and and I think those growing confidence on I think I I made some friends and I felt like I had a a group a Paul of Dan and that really helped an it just felt like the the the work just became more interesting. Somehow it was less this shitty grind in English the difference between box analysis which a fucking terrible way of teaching grandma and reading a really good book it was. It was just more fun. Suddenly any carried on like and it got it got bathroom better up to a level where I really enjoyed it and then I'm still slow at my degree. That's what I felt. I really done enough this so called work and it was. It was on to relax but I mean a grid went in the right trajectory peaked at the right time. By didn't it didn't really start the thirteen fourteen. But that's all it takes is nailed. It takes his. You know not to put sole credit on the teacher but if a teacher or my God yes the difference. A good teacher makes is just extraordinary. It is now I tell my southern. Now he's only serve eight and a half and a year shrugged off a spectacular home school and it was the day I was. He was doing a Microsoft teams thing on the computer with all these schoolmates in the and now I was in the bedroom phone some clouds and could hear him I. I heard a lot of different boy. Oh that's that's what your like in class here. Stop being shared. I Envy Nice. Is that how you talk to people? Is that what you're like? I actually the word that sentence out my mouth. He's how you are at school. No my dad. Yeah you know. That's a couple of weeks of homes. Golden brings out. Yeah I'm just going to wait. Wha is killed me of any lingering idea. I had any vocation whatsoever to be a teacher. I mean I'm going around being this slightly hopeless. Primary School supply teacher is mainly it support. I mean it's kind of hovering over an eight year. Old Children. Going on Mute Mute it on new to commute. Are you mutate? I mean she knows they know way more than my daughters are eight and ten. And it's it's weird isn't it because I'm not sure how much value there is in making my eight year old adept. Zun and wish she was going on nature trail but You know that kind of thing isn't isn't available and well anyway. I mean the the London goes almost ashamed of how little they missed the outdoors inside. We'll speak in a vocation. We you aware of. What you wanted to do. After after Cambridge was a goal. Yeah it harms freakishly early. I mean backpacks off ties in with the whole sort of me changing conversation when I was thirteen I decided I wanted to be a comedy writer. Unperformed which is Freakish slutty witty unattractive back of an envelope territory but There was a school play. That was a queens grammar school home castle. Do this weird thing. Why Bill Sunday did then called the ice dead food? Where three foams that make up. The second year compete in gymnastics and poetry and drama and painting and a few of them things on have this way competition and poverty. Everyone has to a form play and my friend. Paul Kava had written this in class reunion. Which is about how we all meet up in the thousands in what we're doing on he'd written himself is the main part and he was a millionaire was Dick Wad. Irons poll fortuitously. Very luckily with lossing consequences for me got appendicitis. The night before it was an evening thing when parents are invited divorced this bizarre spectacle and so I stepped in the main pop. The teacher again. Heather slater so probably. Why don't you do it until then I hardly been in? School plays a toll. I mean like. I Say I've been I've been SORTA clown with my friends by hadn't really going in front of a bunch of strangers and tried to do the same thing with them and with a pre lunt bunch of lines and the to vary very different completely different. The the the guy down the poor always hold call. He's making all his friends left to like a professional stand up comedian. Yeah I mean in that. Instance usually the differences. The standard can do. He's a cold can do when he doesn't feel like it is the main difference but it was. It was absolutely bizarre and suddenly I was there and I sort of I had this feeling the I if I turn this if I gave this little inflection the end of this long or if I did something my face at the end of this line or if I kept very still during this line this was going to get the the reaction that I wanted and I did and it was an extraordinarily powerful feeling and I didn't want that I want more of that. I wanted a lot more of that. Other remember going home and it was not not classic. Sitcom by any stretch of the imagination. It was a BBC Sitcom home. Sweet home starring William Gaunt and a very young marts includes and I watched that and I thought all they doing anything. But I didn't just do the because then making it look very easy. Is it easy because easy or is it easy because they're very good inaugural leaning forward and in this weird kind of thirteen-year-old sizes future weight McCain again? I think I'm GonNa do that basketball. I wanted so that was that was firmly established and then off the road sketches and putting on sort of end of turn reviews really sketch shows on the school stage. And you'd you charge people ten P and it goes to charity and the reason why this was allowed was raising money for charity And and encourage team team spirit does among before my all my friends you got to do the British parts the straight parts Whereas of course it was mainly the kid show off and an pros around on the state. So you know I did three four of those of the rest of the by school Cambridge than hell bent on Cambridge because of the Cambridge footlights which yes review group. I got some of the West catches out of my system already. I was and I was reasonably again because I come back to school for year. I'm all for my year already twenty years old and I had set him our confidence in an widely experience. I saw all kind of helped by win there with the express intention of meeting someone who wants to a job in comedy. I wanted to meet someone like David Mitchell. Fortunately the actual David Mitchell Boone prior to Cambridge Robert. We heavily influenced by what you're consuming whether you were you know. Listen to comedy old comedy. Lp's fringed of television. Yeah I had a not. The nine o'clock news cassette tape. I wasn't quite old enough to catch the bus time around but I I saw the old repeat and are both on tape. And that was also had a Smith Lp scratch and sniff which was some of the root of material that was great. And then on on the telly. I was watching The young ones and blackadder of close friend Lori And all of all of that generation Comic Strip Course for instance cylinders I would like to say how much they influence me. But I knew I liked like the law and the no the mainstream guys who you wouldn't put in back in June as part of that generation who I adored people like Billy Connolly and Victoria Wood and Les Dawson even unlocked watching. So the Tommy Cooper I mean all of the real of traditional mainstream comedy apart from the real assholes Jen. You did tell really really unpleasant jokes. We know who we're talking about but most are would watch anything. Those meant to be funny and and there was always something to enjoy about it. I suppose also when you're younger y'all if you've got to Inya that that's something that he he would love to you and you're watching these people you're able will that do for a career soon so she'll be viable why this it remains this incredibly unlikely thing but then you know it by time was a university. I'd already done a very unlikely thing. So it's not like my daughter. My brothers were going. Are you out of your mind? This is an incredibly difficult profession to break into an remains very precarious for the rest of your life. Unless you're stupendous lucky. A they already thought I was coming off. Cambridge thing happened so they want or groups going to do that now or I okay. So it was a they would come and see shows and they could see something going on so it didn't seem like such a such a mad idea. I mean looking back it was incredibly Matt. I mean the chances of doing well in this job incredibly slender and every point. There's nothing inevitable about me and David was nothing inevitable about me and David working together for a star but there was nothing about you the path that we took for longtime the years. It felt like okay. We've now established ourselves within the business. We might subsist as writers for other people who are writing jar donkey show Iraqi sketches for Armstrong Miller when still at channel four and the links for this baron. We've done a few things where we got to be on camera Those in light NARC access show combination. Where you literally bring your own costume And we done a Fatmi. None of this paid very well. I knew it was sort of at least two years. Mike is three years where I just wasn't doing anything apart from working as working series of part time jobs an so. It just seemed like the one that you're going to get paid and well-paid for writing or acting the mind both it was this miraculous pipedream but one which for some reason out of sheer conceits. All the confidence the various things including Cambridge have given us. David like actually had faith. The this was gonNA happen and we also we had each other which was a big deal as well. I think it's so hard on your own. We were kind of. We could at least say okay. It's still a bollocks but at least you know this year we've got a slightly better slot in Edinburgh than we did this time last year the last year a twenty plus eleven in the morning in pleasant acid this year with to talk in the afternoon pleasant. Saab says so. That's a you can get twenty more seats in there. Not which is not necessarily twenty more people but dining more seats so there was this sense of very very gradual progress until we got people show which we filmed first series of that in two thousand two and then all bets are off and then everything changed but until then it was just very gradual. Ninety five to the early part of this century. Was this a very tough basically. But you'd expect it to be and it kind of It is tough but we you we happy ager in those times because he's not people very rarely go into the arts with the the sole goal of making lots of money if and. I don't think that's the correct decision instead of united because as we've discussed is precarious Korea. Yeah Yeah no you gotTa love it and you've got going to be something that you would do. I mean this is. The secret is something that you would do for free if you have to. I mean you know that you would carry on you. You'd be doing anyway. I'll be writing books now anyway. Even if nobody gave me a contract I'd be and we'd obviously all artists did it for the love it to start with. I mean all actors were amd dram performers. Right I mean if nobody starts and they get paid so whether you do at school or Withdraw Cobble University whatever Drama School of course so Now you've got you've got some love it you've got to you to enjoy it but on the other hand did. I enjoy those years. Why enjoy the time into in terms of I was young? I love lovely. Go friend I was living with a bunch of friends We were skinned. And that was difficult and you know I was kind of afraid. Every time the phone rang or something came through the letter box that it was going to be the fun. It was going to be the bank manager all the DSS bank manager. That you just me. The I really did have a bank manager that it was going to be the Bank of the DSL council tax. The landlord or God knows what that was. All and I was living on beans on toast or super noodles and eight Lewis dot was rubbish on feeding very. I didn't have my mom was long. My Dad didn't have any money that was not full background. Said that was unpleasant but at the same time. You're young and you don't mind drinking wine. That costs ninety eight pair buckle. And you don't really look up your body very well. You Two need to 'cause you twenty three and a superbeing anyway so that was kind of mixed it was kinda mix thing I mean. It was precarious Materially and There was this only going panic. I felt that it might not work and that would be bad. In terms of money also Biden in terms of it will be a shame it would be like I've got this thing on. I Bet I bet they're going to like it if I if I get a chance to show them. If I get a by other Cherry I bet people will really like it but there was this kind of dread the. It just wasn't going to happen. People were never going to know. Just how marvelous I was. It was the feeling when you were writing by yourself. New Right those sketches prior to Cambridge. And he's you. The goal was to find a Ryan partner. And then when you you met David did you find that. You had to adapt pestle. That the way you work as a writer it was a That sort of changes taking place. We'll ready before I met David. So I'm a year ahead of David so Footlights has this way of the way they go about writing a sketch sunny then Was He just above the of cost? Who should be all writers as well? That's the idea. And then a bunch of extra rises who annoying the cost. And so you've got about ten twelve people and you go away a pass on you a sketch for an hour and you come back and you read it out in front of everyone Which is a ruthless. But it's very very efficient way of generating a law of material very quickly. It will be rubbish. Be I mean. I don't know it'd be a loss of should be lightly redundancy but but you will the end of that process of enough to get enough good sketches to to make show so I was quite used to. That was the change in my immortal first year I have got used to back rising with other people and the give and take the comes with that and sometimes you would you gotta strong partner and sometimes you haven't and sometimes you kind of in the driving seat and sometimes you know and it's kind gauging what's going to happen. Who's got an idea whose? Whose IDEA is will will know. Usually an from the ideas in the first place all of that so when I came to do it with David that wasn't such a such a new experience But with David felt immediately like we understood each other Older references sort of lined up. Together we all kind of we. Just you know it's a cliche but we really click and there was chemistry that I'd seen him Previous to that Stores running the first full show that we worked that we both worked on. I'd seen him in a show that he made with his mates An I are saying the audience watching And I thought ooh conceited tiddly. He reminded me of me because he just looks completely home there. Those those this kind of mixture of alertness re-oxidation on I couldn't take my eyes off in watching him when he didn't already funny lines when he's not much to do still watching. David Mitchell Water. We going to do about this. It was like it was like or the emperor. Having not compensation there has been a disturbance in me. We have a new enemy. If you could be turned that you'll be a powerful ally so just wanted to To to make him a powerful ally so I asked him if he wants to do a show with me at the end of his first year. And we do. We did to show I'm we that's where we started was called innocent. Millions dying brackets awry. Look at the post apocalyptic age with songs and it wasn't very good but it had its moments we didn't really learn the script properly which was a terrible lesson because we kind of got through it and it went really well and we just saw enjoyed working together and we we we find the same things. Funny which is the absolutes. Ben Minimum you want for many topics and there's obviously the media balance between you. Yeah I mean it. It felt even dogs was older but frankly very grand because I was on the committee and he was assumption of verse jets. He was being on a big comedy. Date obviously those differences evaporate in this very quickly as soon as he. What I've I couldn't type all over my perceived. Crt fell away immediately. And so yes but we'll match and And I was the slightly more I mean you know there are people are GonNa find this hilarious but compared to David. I was slightly street. Correct one because I had an earring and slightly long hair and I was from the north compared to competitive who's south of Oxford. And he how he sounds so it was yeah. I was a bit of rough which I know is very silly to think of now. But that's kind of how that kind of dynamic to be fair Howard continued really Simon Jesse. Who Right peep show somebody. Jesse Armstrong must have perceived something like that in the in the partnership because they wrote pig show for us And mock for him and Jeremy. For me and identing an accident if they'd written the other way round that would have been definitely weird. Especially if it's you know it's a rightist. Gatien. It's incredible for a riot to pull all the strength of what they're in down into the real people instead of is much easier for them surely to to derive as well. I'm right for David Mitchell for Tom. Ryan for Robert Web so Paul instead of creating these new characters. Yeah I mean it. It's it's a mixture of Utah's number of of the. They sort of knew our new what they wanted to hear. What they enjoyed hearing is do as performance and they could hear our voices a massive difference. In fact I know that On a I've heard people talk about the first series compared to the second series of a Sitcom that in the second series. Because you know the actors you'll you improve the dialogue? The dialup becomes more naturally an. Nfl is naturally into that mouths. If you like. And that's a two way street as well because the the will be doing that as well. You see some lines and the more you get to know the character the more you can. Actually you can make that line sound. I mean goes. That's your only job. Stand in the right place and an the the Kathy Lee Line. Sound as if you just popped into your head. I mean the anyone says the idea is more complicated is is making a meal if you ask me but but it's it gets easier as as that relationship strengthens between the rocks near and such a shame now sometimes certainly on will embrace on American television that certain comedies on left to to get in their audience and find those voices like all these things take a lot of time. Yeah they do. I mean even when I go I get the feeling that was sort of in decline bit but by the time data and I sort of turned up but I still So for example we did four series of damage and Web Luke and the slot was taken up by Lovely Ingrid and launer wasn't Oliver Invaded sued their sketch. Show and it didn't go brenly but they still got second series and that was. That was kind of what the BBC are making outside like a charter. Nice things with Martin not sure obviously slightly off the world's most sunny disposition towards that particular show because that replaced mine but an I love Ingrid and very people but but still you would get. You would always get to retire. I'm not sure if that's true anymore and I sure if they would take a risk on on the likes of me and David or or or In the same way on I mean a whole series on terrestrial channel When nobody really knows quite that. I'm not sure if that happens anymore. What do I know I'm going to? I'm not really I don't know the world is as I used to. But you think the show full I mean obviously things but you think he's still alive somewhere because obviously with something like your show and the gun back the fast show and it was. There was a real. There was a fashion for at one time and now it doesn't seem to be happening much more tangible when they work that brilliant but I mean i. It's it's always been the case that no one wants to make them because they're They're really expensive. And you can't get the loyalty of an audience that you get with a Sitcom unless you have loads of returning characters and of course that's the route that the likes of Catherine Tate and it'll Britain Especially went down. It was all returning characters and they just want without outside disrespectful. They weren't ideas led sketches. They weren't there wasn't an apprentice to garner. Sketch was. Just let's see some more Vicky Pollard's doing her thing very enjoyable. It was too but it was a different kind of show whereas traditionally got his a bunch of funny ideas. Let's get some people to play these characters and and I it's three minutes long and it has a beginning a middle and an end and it's it's got shut I. I'm not sure if we're ever going to these. Things is cyclical and maybe it will come into fashion one so right for it so perfect for Youtube. Because it's this three minute thing that you can just dip in and out of get into a it happened to me. I've ended up watching loads of Michelin web sketches. When I should be doing something else because know sort of it reels you in so I love to see more sketchers. I think it's a really fun format and if he doesn't take me like this one that it's okay because they'll be another one long in a minute just about to say that is exactly the form with light that while they the is coming soon and then we get a TV critic thinks no the first person to say. I found this. Show something the hit and Miss Burns. David I got so frustrated with this. We actually wrote a sketch So behind the scenes sketch where we were talking about. Which sketches we're going to be hit some which ones are going to be. Mrs In this episode. I think ought to go hit hit. Miss this hit miss and we're like arguing about about the hits the misses so it was always like that and some people find it frustrating. And but maybe it's always been a sort of minority tastes. And that's why it's there on the way out but I mean I think I think you still say it's the natural medium full people who are not stand-ups but who are funny To make stuff on you see that the good news is anyone can do it and you put it on the Internet. The BOB uses. Anyone can do it and you can put it on the Internet and so it's very difficult to get noticed artist. Thought so you know the way that David night came into it. Which was a traditional kind of We'll try and write sketches for weekending or the didn't weekending was a topical sketch. Show where on the radio full wherein Anyone could send sketches. And if you had enough funny ones you become. You became a commissioned writer given a weekly wage. We never got by far we. We hate to doing weekending. We probably science it But we have. We have this relationship with the BBC through combination and then a bad schedule Brouza. A handsome people who've never been seen again like live Coleman and Martin Freeman Wired to those guys and So yes I sort of identify how you how you would get into these days. I mean there are various access things I guess I guess the fact that you can make a schedule on your fun now. Must help the blind me on gladden. I'm glad it's not me too because Ryan sketch is one thing. The novel something completely different was G. Think there was always a novel in you. Yeah I always wants to do it but I knew that it was going to be something for the something for later and I didn't win. That later was going to be but I I was working stories before I was writing sketches and we always coming up with stories when I was a kid right. I this imaginary. Gang of friends called the guy buys and guidelines had various adventures Not As my wife insists the by guys. So it's you and a bunch of bike guys. Is that right no and so I always? I always enjoyed writing stories stories on SPEC and just mine satisfaction really. I wasn't trying to sell anything for years and years and then The again was my first novel Sort of came about and so two thousand twelve hour number arthritis filling series of films seen from peep show singing. Jeremy's car while the crew rerigging the lights and then the idea just sort of came to me. Shall I tell you briefly about the idea? Yep Please so. We go heroine. Kate Kate Moss and she's about my age younger forty five and she's a widow. She's just lost her husband. Luke Caitlyn Lugar together longtime ago when they were kids when they met at the University of York in freshers week. And they've been together since but luke recently died in K. is in trouble. She's in terrible grief and she's not getting better. One day she wakes up she's eighteen years old. It's nineteen ninety-two she's in college room. This was the She remembers everything in her head. She's still forty five. This was the week in fact. This was the night that she met Luke for the First Time. She knows how he died. She knows he's already ill. She thinks she's that won't him? She's GonNa try and do everything exactly the same hence comedy because you can't do. Everything is so So that's the kind of premise. That's kind of situation. And of course she finds that the the the nine hundred ninety two. Luke is not the middle-aged man that she lost his not the fully rounded husband. That she goes. He's the he's still the annoying nineteen year old. English student but she first met. I mean she kind of went out with him despite his personality to start with is the original one nine standard. Got Out of hand. I think that's the way with lots of very very long relationships that actually you know you do the falling in love bit afterwards which they did so. She's got to convince him that he's got a he's got this branch humor. Not Conversation happens in the middle of the book and it does not go well but this but there's also her lifelong friends. None of whom course know who she is. I mean it's kind of a accused that Deja of what? What would you do if you went back in time to change things in of course it will be unique about five seconds? You realize our credibly lonely obey if you knew all this stuff that other people don't know you knew stuff about your friends futures and in particular in freshers week where you're surrounded by your friends and they don't know who you are. Your husband doesn't know who you are. So she has to contend with all that but mainly I wanna made it sound like too heavy. It's a it's a comedy. The whole thing is is Is deliberately written to be funny. Well I'll be honest. I haven't finished at but I am really really enjoying it. Oh good I must admit when we started this lockdown. I thought I had A. I've got my bookshelf. And I picked out all the bookstop been meaning to finish here. I had either live section of books. We all did that. I don't know about e Book I couldn't get past the fifty pages I couldn't concentrate. I couldn't even watch film still finding it really. I mean it's not as bad as it wasn't the first few weeks I'm still finding it difficult to settle with. Read a lovely Book called Wishful Drinking by Carrie. Fisher is Carrie Fisher's very brief memoir and is based on stage show and it's only about sixty pages long and adopts the CO level of weighty reading the I was dating within the in those first few weeks and all that bullshit about Oh you know. This is a great time to learn mandarin or read. You were sees dot whole if not now when we'll tell you when when you know isn't macken strung out because there's a deadly virus outside door so we still give ourselves a bright that we we're not going to be if you can. I can barely get through my emails without. It's the come in to the temptation to just go to bed by Gandhi being rubbish supply teacher which we talk about concentration and can we talk about concentration as a writer. Are you one of these days very well structured or do you not take yourself off to the office to a Cafe? No not really. I mean the both books a memoir I grew to be a boy and then the second book first novel in both books were written in really kind of chaotic and disorganized manner. What can I tell you it just you know. Don't listen to me for writing tips from that point of view. I mean those Sunday supplements that spot going my writing day. I mean they just cracked me up. I just look at them in a mixture of or disbelief rice. Go I rise at five thirty and doing of Yoga and then I have you know cranberry in wasp leg smoothie and then I write for three point two hours and then I do more yoga and I frantically masturbate until I have my important the creative now is nothing like that on marginally shopper. In the morning the Nyoni afternoon I do understand. You know a lot of the job is just declaring your eyes to the chair or to put it more frequently as flip. Pullman did He said something like the museum necessarily come to you. But you have to be in you have to be in in case she does so Yeah I tried to be available in my idea how I have did coming to you. Directly live this moment from the room at the top of the house living at a nicer terraced house in North London very very soon small rooms but very tol- An I'm into the remind laughingly call. My study is a converted loft and this is where I will try to be well. They frankly For the first two books Was still smoking so as often as I be outside on laptop. Because we've got tidgy little no fountain garden and be on on John Lewis Table under a parasol chain. Smoking and writing. But that was the half the time I guess the rest of the time I was hit and bug done. I don't have any proper regimen. I mean he's a disaster it'll have to. It'll have to improve an aside. It'll be all written here of the account. Recall Strafe go I congress. Cafes always feel bad about my drinking enough calm is my buddy. Yeah also. I didn't like coffee coffee every now and again it is built like A. Yeah so it's I. I'm happier on us. One was an enjoyable process with the novel. Because I'm sure and I don't know but I'm sure with how not spirit boy that was probably quite Cathartic Experience Ryan but was this was an enjoyable process. It was competitive competitive. Compared to the amount to be a boy which of course you know that big chapter in the middle dealing with my mum diagnose a tough thing to write competitive that I mean. The older book is like that but that. Let's say that the book is you know that was quite a memorable pa of the writing process competitive that the novel was harder. Technically I mean it's artistically harder but less heavy going emotionally even though you know. I've got some situation where you know Kate and you know she's in terrible grief and she's making that move from living in the past two reengaging with the present and the way. The story works is that she literally has to go live in the past in order to do that to rediscover. What what the president has to offer. Is that thing where you you try and integrate the LAS with the with the new president. That's what morning is so. Even though she's she's going through that this does a lot of fun in that book and there's a lot of You know not to give too much away but it you know on the one hand I saw. Oh I I seem to be rocketing. A quiet little book about love and memory in grief. But I can't help noticing on the other hand there's a race punch-up And so it gets quite broad at times and and it's just me enjoy myself really really write the book that I would love to read about. You know lockdown reading. If I hadn't written it is to read come again because it's it's a funny book doesn't tickets off terribly seriously it's full of ideas and is massively uplifting and joyful not swear it's heading so I'm not saying I just decided I am certainly saying it to solid but the only reason say Christ. What was the question off completely? I mean do you think in some ways? I mean it sounds to me the you did enjoy Ryan a lot and yes. Yes the answer yes. Do you think you now being an author easy overtaken other aspects of your career. It sort of happened at the same time that I've become fussier as an actor. I'm definitely a want. I just as his say jaded nece but I saw a level of experience. You look at a job. That's being offered to you. And you think. Okay here all the downsides and I don't like baron line that and it's kind of instead of thank you sir for offering me. This wonderful opportunity doesn't feel like that anymore. It feels like why me. Why can't they get Stevens? Do get Martin today against someone. Just get someone else to do. It may make do it so it off converse spoil is not but on. The other hand does so happened at the same time the mind just emerging the big projects these proper full length. Books has really shot up. So it's not like I'm GonNa stop acting. I enjoy it too much. And there are things like You know back the second series of the of the Sitcom do David the Obviously I'm going to do is written for me and David enough. What David Love working with costs this is gripped by Blackwell and he's brilliant So what's not to like so you know I do things like that? Obviously and they'll be they'll be gas Parson and leading the come along the maybe I'll be delighted to do and this is not just me covering my ass. In case Mark Theatrical agent is listening trying to have a heart a but definitely writing as as Rosen. These big books has come to be a really really big part of my working life if not the majority now at the moment but I mean you know. Life is long and things change and Who knows how off-field this time next year Rabah Webb? Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed our conversation. It's been lovely so much coming on the podcast. Thank you Craig. Melvin from testing you home. The episode is done. Enjoy it. Good night thank you so much for download and subscribe and for all your messages and your emails that you send those keep sending them. Let's keep the conversation going weekend. We count because you know it going to help so mates to join knows. Let's let's grow this ever expanding family of listeners. The listening community and keep sending in your emails and we think of the episodes. Were all house and if you do it was on patron. Jaren this time. Oh anytime but certainly around this time May I cannot thank you enough. You know how much it helps and when all this is over we will go and do. Big Live shows inevitably power. Until then you take care of yourself. I've been Craig Parkinson. He's been a graph and this has been the to show cast stay safe. Stay to podcast is presented by me. Cry Pockets of recorded and produced by Griffin for splicing blocks on music up. Really being Kersey often that that goes around.

David Cambridge writer Ryan youtube Craig Parkinson Boston Martin Freeman David Mitchell Luke Caitlyn Lugar Robert Webb Simon McBurney Kate Kate Moss Hundred Twenty Six Boston Simon Bernie Simon Lori And
RHLSTP 203 - Emily Atack

Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast

1:01:00 hr | 2 years ago

RHLSTP 203 - Emily Atack

"Oh, hello. And welcome to another episode of stop with me, Richard herring. It's lovely here. Square theater. At the moment. The guest this week is Emily tank is going to be a lot of fun. If you like these shows, hey, you can come in probably see one live with touring the country in two thousand nine hundred and probably beyond that. We'll also hear that the square is rich Tang dot com slash gigs to find out all about that. And hey, why not support it's by becoming a monthly badger Goto? I brand new m site robusta dot co dot UK. You'll find lots of stuff about the show. But also, there's a lovely pay. Will you can get behind very cheaply and see low those behind the scenes videos, hundreds of those now there are about five minutes long or lots of other extras personal. I stand up shows as going be lots of stuff there. Maybe I'll do some question and answer sessions. Who knows what I'm going to do? They're only people who will pay. That's the people who know that will help us to fund the filming of this show, which is exorbitant expensive. Thank you very much watching that sit back and enjoy hitch. It hangs. L S T P relative. He'd is gentlemen. Welcome to the LeicesteR square theatre. Please welcome. The man who has just sold one of his liver's for Jesus. Not feeling that. Well, actually, he's Richard Terry. Oh feel much better. And also he's audience. It was a bull guy in the front. Right. A smiling. Good jumped on some good bunny. Szeswith obsessed reportedly is. Didn't dare as well as I did. The timing was all off. So welcome Terry. Herrings lung Sally toll podcast. That's how terrible name. I was hanging around with the good news the other week. I don't remember the good. These driver Chandan. He remembers the goodies heating spangles. Thank you. So now. Senate us going to catch on. Let's go for you oughta I should've said last week. And I'm sure you'll noticed the difference between the two weeks. So ready here, I'm on a diet. This this year, I voted for not gay said L looks into the Nassir. You hate us. We union law of lost love way. I did Apu in the fillets some. I was I was kind of hoping to use to alternate between fat rich and thin. Rich presenting Lee shows which gave me half the work load overseas to different people's no am put his fat reaches been presenting this show for quite a few series. Now, looking back at the Jon Ronson when I was thin rich when I lost the Germans, and that was the last time, I was probably thin. That's how long ago so my plan is to by the end of the series thin. Rich will be presenting the series, and I will wear the suit that I wore in two thousand and fifteen. I've lost. I've lost ten pounds. So far in one thousand nine hundred eighty I was very fine. So house just drinking beer for some reason. So I. But it's been a dry January and a dry four days of February thirty five days no-one, I'm not counting. So. We'll see if that comes to pass and lot look to the last episode already instead ha-, you did not work. It didn't I'm cross. I I've gone Yukos's mentioned this before to the audience I live in the countryside now. So it's very, and it's been unpleasant weather, so get splashed all over the car all the time. There's no point in washing the car because you just go out again, and you'll get again, and I was in weight chose car park in hitching. It's easy, and they smell that happened in that places for the comes by ancients, usually guys usually 'em half for chip as comedy, this is from people in Hampshire. Fucking mad for this year. And I did see my cost a walk just said to my door. You can see which is because he was quite busy. And I was gay. I got two kids those on my own. I was tired. I was putting them in the car that was trying to feed my son at the same Thomas very harassed at a man a middle aged hitching man came pas he said, excuse me. And I'm a polite math. We maybe recognize me from my radio for work. And. You said how's anyone meant to read that number place? I said I've been thinking the same thing I wasn't angry to begin with. And then I thought that core. Kind of quiet law from Disney to bicycle your car's fucking day. What are you gonna do about it punch? You in the face. You fucking fuck. I'm very very cross today. I'm very cross last weekend today. Very cross. Oh. I'm just I'm an essay. I think as you get older, I'm worried about it. Because I think as you got about I know, he's probably my age to be honest. My been in his sixties, you got walk point does that mental filtered go, I mean, maybe I won't just say everything go fucking thing this gone into my this is my job but doing in real life. So anyway, I guess this week is probably best known for portraying Slima in the Keith and Patty patriot show, which is my favorite television. So we can imagine how hideous this guest is going to be probably have all the answers in the chosen place Lima, which isn't even a human being. So let's see what she looks like will you please the amazing Emily, ladies and gentlemen. Oh my God. Big of a microphone. I should have said that you have to talk into that Mike is very strange for me, this kind of scenario you're gonna have to get used to. If you go on a stomach to you're gonna use a hand held, Michael I've got one of those little things you go to Madonna. I feel I underground day when aware that's nice. We had those the league we have leeann herring. When we did leeann hiring. We had those pretentious. Come on be real talking to a big violent microphones, you feel like you know, you've made it if you get this. Yeah. We used to do which will might as do cow used to captain scarlet and go this is this is that was my job with so. So. That's cool. Then they anyway, so Slima how did you get cho- chosen to portray Slima that is not fair company. This hilarious companies. This is even think I leased said to me Lee Francis. Keith lemon. He said he's not as wisn is real name. The the amount of people that go so right? Okay. As case is that we we as always know. He's Lea Francis. Keith lemon is the character, and they go. All right. So he's Kate nano. He's Lee that keeps Levin is his character. Anyway, we'll have to explain to people times. Larry's so. Yeah, he said to me, no one moved place Lima dwells. I'll do it definitely do it. And he was thought you'd be all dud Vern, though, not wanna like trust, all green and show. No fine due to be slimmer. Just literally do this your goods. I bet you'd be. I've never even seen goes. I was weirdly, really good. That's pretty much what he does. So. Thanks. That's pretty good. So while we have seen you recently. We'll talk about some of the things talk about. But we'll talk about I'm a celebrity I which my audience don't watch because they are. And watch a knee. This. No this series was apparently a really good one. Very good sued. He was the base. They're aware of what it is. But they wouldn't they wouldn't watch. Series. Apparently. You came spoiler for anyone who's going to own series record. Wait, wait, a couple of years just to really save. You came second. I came into football manager type. How was it? Because you've been asked all these questions about celebrity, whether it's real whether it's but isn't enjoyable thing to do really I mean, you seem to have fun this year. I wouldn't be economies say enjoyable in the sense of the dates day life of it. You know, you're starving hungry. They're on takeaway pizzas. Coming in every half an hour. Like everyone thinks there is it's not a studio. It really is what it seems on television. It's very difficult. But it's more about kind of what you how you do that. I'm not going to use the word journey, but I feel like I'm about to say, I'm really feel. This is the only way to describe it. It's more about that experience. Experience will use that what it's the experience, and it that's that's the enjoyment of it. You find out so much about yourself things that you didn't know and yet it's kind of willing to. Ev everyone sort of says about you in this series is that you went in you had confidence a bit dented before you went in relationships, and whatever. Yeah. I have rebuilt you through all got it. Really? Did it my genuinely I said this yesterday? I actually really miss being in the because there was something about being in that environment. Where you're so completely stripped bare of the stresses of everyday life, and you're taking away from the real world. And I can honestly say it was the most liberating thing ever because I just felt so protected in there. I felt like I was the happiest I've ever been because I didn't have the everyday normal stresses of everyday life. I could just. Just didn't have to worry about anything apart from having to lie afire and spe. Yes Taylor's win stars for camp to to get meals. Everything you go back to basics, and as a as a as a human being in this day and age if you ever get the opportunity to do anything like that, which you know. Everyone gets to do the jungle you can just go and go into wood somewhere. Just starve yourself in a words. Is a big decision right to go into me that we nervous about it. I mean that you weighing up. I'm some people go into these things and destroys them. Yeah. And destroys that Korea usually the racist wants to be fast as long as your confident you can keep your racism bottled out to two weeks. Okay. Yeah. That was just kind of thought what do you know what? Oh, I'm I'm not racist. I'm not nasty. I'm not bitchy. And I'm I'm just a dickhead. I'll just no I'm not that much of a bell. And the I would make myself look like a balance, and I remember saying to IT when I had the meeting I said, oh, you know, get deck invo. They said thing is you're gonna look like a day if you are a dick it's not big brother were they're out. They're out to literally lead you dry for that kind of thing. It's it's not really like that. And I just thought I tell you if you were dick because I want you to go on. Dick is from going in. No, let Mundus know. No, did you ever wake up and find? No Lebanon's just staring standing standing of you standing. I feel about him off to watching it back through. He he's such a nice guy, and we had so much. Grudging respects phase the murders. He committed by support. Support from that. Thinking of. Jack, the ripper. That wasn't even confuse thing. We covered Ben right? No. I think he's he's done some slightly Dickey's things we have this we've discussed only had cancer machine. He was telling cancer sufferers. They should buck up their ideas. And try his cancer machine is is then all things about the cats. No, probably some brag about it. You're right. As long as you got cancer. You tell you about it. But if you've got it shop by. I know he's I just think it's a lot of people who work and show business think that cool the not Dickey's people, and there is no hiding place in the jungle for that. Literally. If you are a dick it's going to come out. So I think no Lebanon's for me feels like the kind of post he thinks he isn't a dick incorrectly. That's just my opinion. And I'm sure you feel. Leads me. I wouldn't go in that. Because my I've got an angry side. I think he will people I bought off. But you seem to it was whether it wasn't many everyone seemed to get on. It was genuinely we we really really got on. An I always say, I don't think I would have done half as if there wasn't also in there that was upsetting. I think in that kind of environment. Either brings out the best in you will the west in you. And. Luckily, Aibo out this side to me. I didn't really know that I had because designed booze in there. So you like it sounds awful. But there's no booze. This none of those kind of things that change your personality. It's also your it's almost like you're a nine year old kid again and just with genuine happening. The slightest thing will make you happy if you win a chocolate biscuit go so thrilled. It's the only thing you're gonna we all day. But so happy about it. You become a nine year old again. So I loved it. Stood you anticipate coming out? And you know, what we what was your feelings as you're coming out of the jungle you think he's going to do you wear? It was going to lead to that some opportunities or you're worried you've been denied ways, I think as as an actress and actor we have to say now. I think it's the decision that you make with something like that. It's a really big one. Because as you say, it can go one way or the other and in this industry. I feel like the industry's changing a lot. And it got to the I've been asked to do the jungle for the last three years. And I was kind of I was battling with. I was thinking. I don't know if it's the right thing, but you know in fucking skinned. And I got to a point where I thought right? I'm not trying to be the next year nightly. That's not why I'm trying to be yet. I also I'm not a reality star. So I had to kind of thing. Well, if I do this I have to sort of afterwards carve my own path afterwards. Don't wanna do the thing of it sound so indulgent kinda going. Oh, it's such weird decisions. You have to make in this kind of industry. But you never know what the best thing to do next is in the industry, especially as a young woman. It's really really difficult. And I my whole over the last ten eleven years I'd been playing these glamorous kind of rolls. Great fun. Great. But yeah, I got to a point where I thought right? I'm tired of that robotic motion thing of going to additions costings reading the lines doing that. My mom goes the. Revolving door dish. And when you go in you, go hurt, right? Thank you again. You just never hear anything again. And I just lost my sense of fun with it. And I just thought I need some excitement again in my life. And I want to just kind of flip everything on its head. And just see what happens if I start say yes to things like the jungle. And so I just thought right sawed, it I'm going to say, yes. And just kind of see what happens from there. Thank christ. I said. It was the best decision I've ever made. And I didn't I didn't know for one minute. Guess just how kind of while it was going to go. I'm so lucky the people I was in there with all amazing. And as I say we out the best in each other. And I came out of all these incredible opportunities and all the doors that I thought we're going to be shut in my face in terms of acting and things like that. Bloody more. Right. So that's how you dishing as you go into jungle for three weeks, and that's show. Probably oh nice thing. But I think it shows is that the industry's changing because a few years ago that would have been the snobbery would have been well, oh, she's done the jungle when gonna see for this costing now. Oh, no can't do drama now you can't either. But it's it's just not the case for some reason. There's not so bad the things you'd been. In a semi secret. My agent in the audience. Got the walkers. Geico bill. Crisps you get free Chris for life for that get to eat crisps. We've got Linda brilliant. Well, I've just been confirmed for an acting gig the other day, I'm so excited about from not to say it. But it was something that I definitely would've auditioned for before. And I I wouldn't I wouldn't go look in the feedback was when I went for castings called this is so indulgence already psychotherapy session the feedback. I got was the I was either to sort of well known for rose or not well known enough so much thought will I might as well choose something a bit more extreme. And then just see what happens from that. So yeah. Yeah. It's it's all good. So we from a big show biz family. I know your mom a little bit k Robbins. Did you you're aware? She was in the song contest. You must be. Yes. And you sing the song Tao? It's how it's what were they? Now, it's how it's what were they? Premadonna re Madonna can you say I've been if I've ruined their naming case ever comes up on pointless because I I don't think anyone remembers prima Donna all this song. As a place in your heart for me, then there's a room in my place for you. Gus I've got love it. Love enough, and they're all wearing bucks, fizz style. It was the year after bucks, fizz, the boys who are in that going to children's present a kind of bucks, fizz stuff. I meant the number waste can't survey. Now, I'm kief you say books patients. She's big nothing's to you is Mariah weather. She said, she's she really surprised. I should think about it. I should've I love her. Surprise surprise. She wrote surprising singer. I bet but seeing here. But she did for some speaking. Eurotrash? Well, that was always weighed watching that with my may seven be like did you watch your trash last night? No because it's my mom going year. Oh, yes. Cracker. You come to that five family of like seemingly about billion very attractive women and Ted Robbins seems to be he goalie aloft the the access left. I always fed is he is. He is a okay, he's well, he's over the heart attack. Well, yes, we love. We love Robbins, but pool McCartney is trying to work out what relation. Mercedes. He's my grandma's. First. Cousin and and he my grandma essentially raised him his mum died when he was very young. So my grandma raised him, and they actually started the Beatles in my grandparents carriage, and then they yeah, they started. But it was it was Paul and John they start they call themselves the nook twins. They were like this. Yeah. This little Jiro, and my grandparents owned a pub, and they said, oh, you know, my grandmother introduced pulled to the UK lean to what Matt play it. And she said okay now, you sound really good. You should play play at the pub tonight. So the nook twinstar plane at the pub, and then yeah. They did. I mean, my mom just goes round saying, you know. Yeah. Pull just brags about my cousin which is. Fuck around and say, you know, he he's a family, man. And I grew he was such a massive part of my childhood ze. Yeah. I had an amazing childhoods with him. He was so lovely him, and Linda they would have round for Sunday, lunches and. Yeah. Forgetting turning up once and he said all you've cheer Smith. Michael Jackson was all for. No move Sunday lunch. So. Is anyone in your family? Not performance. I don't know. No. I don't think any single one of us has ever had a proper job. Somebody's like a massive dynasty Robert doors, who I work with this merit to your aunt, Amy. Yeah. Yeah. And Joe there's a big age gap in the family. Yo your Ted is the oldest is it goes. Ted, my mom, then Emma? Jayne, Amy going some. Oh. Skipping. No, one comes like twelve years after his that's impressive. Yeah. And they dead now. So that's the way to think about what about dead. About the dead. I was thinking about having sex while they were alive and still young enough to procreate. That's what I'm going to think about. Get a porn video. My is gonna it's gonna. Oh god. The rule siblings. It works for me. Is about referenced the last week in case, you think come with. We'll give my best you mom. She's. I won't say she. Twitter and second up a couple of gigs night and said, yes, showing this shouldn't turn that grad graduates is I'll take he was going to say this. So my sister. He's also my agent she is here with her boyfriend who their first ever date they've been together for seven years. It's not interesting for anyone else. But they've been together for seven years and their first ever date was to have Richard herring gig yet and the Hanau, and they said they went to Richard our Giga. It was when they first and then they had to Domino's pizza in his car to its. Yeah. Museum workout without me. Is sounds pretty good extra line? They hit tonight. Yeah. Yeah. I'm because I think people come on the first date, the women see me and go fuck I could end someone like that. I'm just fifth nearest available. I he hits a bit like anything getting. I could have been in. I could've been in the dynasty. Addition. Whether you knew the in between is we talked to some of them to some of the sorts of Joe and Damon at AIn the Bristol slapstick festival recently. So that was that was the first big break in between. His can I was I was seventeen and I my parents are divorced, and I let my sister. And I said, right? She we just sack this often Galvin this is rubbish. So we moved into this flat. And we had no money. I was seventeen. My sister was fifteen sixteen and she was how are we going to pay for it? I'm going to become a famous actress is fine. And abandoned few doors down an I auditioned for this thing who baggy trousers. And I would just for that. And I also at the time auditioned for something called coming of age, which was on BBC three. And I I was offered both rose and I had to choose between the choice. Well, I I did was I went back to my flat that day my grotty little flat. I was I was a baby I was seventeen and all my mates was sitting around. It's like smoking weather, and I was like right everyone read both of these scripts and tell me what's the funniest one. They went not one buggy trials is. I was like, right. I'll say, yes. To that one. Then thank Chris. And. Yeah. And so I I did that for three years yet 'til I was twenty one and not just change my life forever. And what was the boys in it were they liked the characters chain. Well, the way thing was what people don't really know. Is that the time they were so much older than what they would play. So I was seventeen the normal age, and I was playing a year older than them. Whereas they enroll live will like approaching thirty. Yeah, they were in the makeup truck everyday like shaving their tests every inch scraping that chests and their faces because they yeah, they were approaching sea. So they were they were they were silly and fun and everything, but they were bit Mitch with bit mature. Visit great. Visit great into with Damon who created it, but within, but it's it is that it was exactly certainly a boy's memory of school of the all the boys are silly ideas. And all the girls quite cold and together, which I think is true of six eight SM. It's definitely my kind of memory of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the so called bents I get and I have to go. Thank you are. You know? Okay, thing is reason why are you so good in that is because argest remember our fancy goes lot. You, you know with the tits and the thank you. Nice. Yeah. But apparently. Yeah, it resonated with people and people were just all, you know, everyone knows a guy like that. When I was a guy like that. Everyone knew the girl like that. That's why people like you get invited to the inbetween his ten year anniversary. I was saying. Wow. She we have an emergency question. Oh. Okay. How do I? To be some tricky ones in. Yeah. Okay. Could just be honest. You said you have very open on his first. Okay. Very onus. I think sometimes in the industry as things progress and things happen and people move on. Certain people then kinda go. Fucking. Which one of them's that day. All this. Joe Thomas because he's lonely, Jerry. Simon birds. So I'm no sign that is lovely. You're in dad's army the tool, we've moved on brilliant must be the other one. Say it didn't go very well. So it was good job. There isn't it? It was lovely to hear how people saying, oh, you know, you should have been that. It was very nice. It was very nice to hear that. Well, it was it was the four guys obviously with the show. But it was it was beautiful weather that show. I think was the peripheral characters like the truth of it was great. But also, you know, Greg Davis was fantastic and all the other students really there were the paedophile teacher, which I addition for and didn't get the first time. I I I've ever audition for perver- not been except for the, you know, invite into the actual night because every. For me. Did you do to them use of scar? You know, just so nice. There's no Berea think in certain areas. We'll come back to it. So much. We can get you some more. This is a new question. I didn't get on. So from Sangari, I'm gonna try you always the way dist reason you ever skydived off school. I'll give you an example, someone who answered this on Twitter for me said Brian jacks out of ju ju judo was visiting. And I didn't want to meet him. I. I won't Skype to school because I was I I I don't know why they announced the second. I'm telling the story, but they were we were gonna make tea and coffee in home economics. I was about ten years old. I was terrified that might be drink tea, tea or coffee. And so I pretend it I was ill, and it didn't go did you have a Skype. I s stupid reason. Did you have a Skype off on guessing very not very not as I was nice person wasn't mean or anything like that? But I just school. I just looked today is a waste of time. I knew I wanted to do and I couldn't wait to get out of there. I hated it hated school. This is going to make me get the violins Alba. There was a I was quite bullied at school where it was very body buried, and there was this one time where this this horrible shit in my class had printed out this picture of me. And I I. It was like an art class that we had to take really silly pitches of each other pending a silly face. And I pulled a really stupid face, and he printed off about I'm not joking about thousand copies of this photo of me like and he posted it everywhere. And I'm talking in every single village you can imagine with my phone number on it saying cool this number for sex. I swear to God. And so it was the most it was awful. And so I just didn't I knew that that was going on. And I didn't go in school that day. So it was so humiliating. That's. We musical story about C. Brian Jackson was it. Brian jackson. I just used to go to McDonalds or the other times on the train bus drift. So like this. So typically teenage boy to say to them for sex. Nantou standing even out. That'd be really didn't. You funny face. So that's a good sign. What is the best? This his new question. It's my even more sympathy. What is the best thing you've ever lost? And then found again. Oh, ooh. Hard night dignity. Sure you've found. Oh, Betsy lost and found again. Okay. Right. So when I was really really young I had these echoed, the my special dollies, and I had all these does like these babies, they were my babies God, they were my goes like in my life. I think I was about twenty two notes. I was must have been about seven six or seven and had these special dollies, and I had them in this massive like satchel thing. And we went on holiday an bless my dad, I'd left them. We'd got on the plane, and I'd realized I'd left this huge bag of Dolly's in like KFC or something in the in the thing, you wouldn't be able to do this. Now, my dad he was like, right. No, go off the plane managed to go all the way back through security found my of special jollies and brought them back to me. No idea where they are. Now. Was trying to get rid of them. So you're doing this stand tool. This is quite a bold departure. I would stop saying that the making me really odd really good to be the kind of standard you can bring to disparate people together in love that you have to be pretty amazing. So. Are we need performed all your life? So it's an you've obviously doodles have impressions and your. I'm assuming a good singer sing. Yeah. I sing. So it's not like a massively. What was that was a decision? Maybe for the jungle. Yeah. Yeah. It was just that thing of going. I wanted to sick of kind of additioning things and not getting them and everything was just going really placid. Right. So I was like right all the people out there doing really, well, the people that are writing their own stuff. So people going what are your eyes sitcom too, much work too much money? And I thought what if I just write show that might be a lot of say. Yeah, I'm just kind of I'm going to do this phase at the moment in live from thinking. Everything's really scary. But I'm just going to do it. Anyway. It's essentially just may it's cool talk thirty. It's me and. And it's about, you know, the it's a kind of a humorous, look, hopefully, the panics of approaching thirty. I'm twenty nine of just turned to one thousand nine and I can't believe it. I cough believe I'm. But the funny thing is I saw your DVD neighbors. Oh, Franken fifty. I nearly cool mine. Oh, fuck fuck him. So I did I fucking forty. I didn't do the show. So we can we can combine you can we can now put as before. Because I didn't do the whole thing is saying I feel like in life. We're taught about puberty and how difficult that's going to be fine. We we sort of we're told about the menopause or a midlife crisis that you probably gonna get laid down the line, but this part of life. No one really teaches you about. It's of it's almost like you still feel like your eighteen years old. And yet people are going. You got big right now you've got to now pay bills on time. You've got to learn how to drive can't drive. You've got to stop dropping things and stop being an absolute moron. And I just don't do that is true. The same. I'm fifty fifty. You may you can carry on. I think it was the worst. What decade for me life? I'd say like four t was I did have a kind of break breakdown forty. But it wasn't as bad as I was genuinely really really unhappy about it does feel like a big deal because I think all the way through your twenties, but you know. No fence, but your fucking idiot when you twenties, so as you know, it all gets better. Yeah. Well, I was really I was really Dima twenty. So. You know, the miniature and thirty wasn't problem, whereas the minute and forty it was still a problem. Yeah. That's fine. But the build up to it was was real is leaving Jenin that what we doing it thirty. Birthday or any to go blends in balance where we used to wine bomb used to go to and how to party in there to my friends man that party I'm very good at bringing people together. And yeah, I was always just alone. Got mired on. Yeah. Shit. Two kids. I'm fine. But yeah, Suma friends go over that policy and still together. So they've been married for twenty two years together. Twenty two years. Yes, we had we had a big thing and ninety seven. So it was a pupil. Thomas on TV still. Okay. Well, you you doing great. It wasn't. Then it all went wrong alchemy twenty years later, we now just took into didn't even win. I'm trying to get Harry Redknapp. He was know to call. Guess the older you get to life gets pats up to the extent and then things not dropping off. Well, nine ready. I already dropping them. Well, it'd be interesting to say some you haven't recently. Haven't written the show yet you still April sold we live sold every ticket. Yeah. Is that true? Yes. I've extra show that soda nearly nearly twenty second Ohno you are. Seventy one. I'm twenty second of may. We've added another clap in date. Joyce taught ballooned brilliant haven't written it yet. So, but no I have in the first half an hour. But I know what the premise is. And I know what I want it to be. But yeah, it's very it's very scary. For me. It's very daunting. But I'm kind of talk about that in the show is what I want people to feel like they're just sort of sat with just signed a living room. Chatting, and I've got like a drinks cabinet behind main things. I think if you're selling out it's easier. You know, I think the thing is what are you starting comedy? If you're starting in played to five six people, very difficult. Yeah. Got people who want to see you. Yeah. Going to be fine. The first five minutes, and then you really gonna help start delivering. I. I'm thinking because I've got these lovely young girls. Tweet me going so happy my mum's just put the tickets to come and see you you look twelve. This is not fear. By the teenagers of the best ones. We, and they know all the stuff they know everything we talking to jump Brunson last week. They know everything things you even you could never ripped off. And even though young as well. I mean this. I'm not saying you're you were Ted. I think that's how that came haven't even new with your reputation, even news at ten to know these things. Things that wasn't what I meant. So I'm glad I clarified that could have. But we were lab to you every. But they say they've seen everything. It's easy. Just to be moved for ages. Yeah. Do you go off now than just swear people advice? Swearing kids. I think of the best, you know, when you're a teenager, and that kind of age, you got there isn't much else in your life, and like music comedy, or whatever is the most important thing. And you study, and you really know. What's good? Yeah. I think and as I think teenagers, I was I was in Tacoma d when I was ten eleven I was watching or listening to Derek and Clive which was incredibly inappropriate. So, you know, it's fine. You won't be as bad as you want to be as rude is Derek and Clive I I want I want young people who wouldn't really think about going to a comedy gay go to the theater, I want to kind of create something that those people who think not push for the I want then to come and enjoy my shout and just have a hoot. Yeah. I think the the thing showed your vet great role model. Won't you that your regular person, and you were happy with not having makeup on and things like that? Nothing. That's that's. That's a great God yet. And this I must I I'm. Mm. Yeah. We social media and things like that. I feel like it's. The so much pressure on on young people without getting people at school is so much pressure on young people to to look away and be perfect. And I'm just an I think everybody gets to experience something like the jungle being on television and things like that. Where all of a sudden, you are in the public eye, and you do have you have a voice and is important sometimes to to speak for for other people that don't necessarily that might not have that voice? So yeah, I was really forward to go because kids always seems to sit in the front row, and then you can just go you're going to lend some stuff tonight, and then just be much rooted the neon. I'm gonna sing that we're in loves it. Yeah. How how how how? Fucking. For a nation. That says they love kids people. And that may like to see them humiliates. When you five years old you fell over the belly just wanted Chris. I just want to bring that up. In the bag you I do love research. It's how do you know? No doubts Wade's where if I spoken about if you've said it, I know it. Yeah. It was like the most traumatizing if you've got an Alexa in your house. That's how I know. That's so straight yet. It was the most what are the most traumatizing things ever. And I don't think I've ever been the same same. Women about to rely you've been on dancing and nice. That'll do it. Yeah. Yeah. No. I think I was younger like four five at. Yeah. I came out. I was to to on like in really ready came preps on it came out with the parents watching and I came out did my bit and I went off. So he would sit on my flat on my face. And I'll never forget the sound of the dot hit the floor and other parents going. It was awful that way. It'd be exactly like when you start your tour. Who says you show you written? You're going to be fine, man. You bet. Bros. Recently. Oh my God. Oh, mike. Right. Okay. So the press documentary seeing the documentary the best thing since the office that we it's the best thing in the world. And I met them. And I couldn't believe it. They wear a full face of foundation. Like stunning double wet eve solarzone like proper and bright blue lenses and thick black mascara. It. It. The fancied them both. I was in school with bras where it's gonna come every time Ross. It was mentioned in the last podcast that you on it. Yeah. Not for a year. They kept the Chattan talent school, I discussed this with my last guess in moving Hampson, though. But one of them doesn't look very much like the other one they both end like the other one. But then that twins. Yeah. How'd you account for that? How'd you come for mass eleven loads of hair and not lead to visit a skull face? Like the other one. It was so lovely nice the nicely. Now. Very nice. And the documentary though, that I love that documentary because okay, it was hilarious. And you know. But it actually it brought Maha as well. It really. Did. You get to know people like that. And yes, it's it's not thing isn't it of watching characters like the David Brent's of the world. And we even though we kinda go at things that they say you still want them to win in the end the something so lovable about people like that. And I think that's what I think that's what they had whoever directed. That is a g news genius genius. I do know who is tweet us. I love I've watched it twice apply. The Blu Ray circle the extras, then it's not worth it. There aren't enough of them should be like another hour stuff. And yeah, he tweeted meet some thank me is Britney put together by in. I think it fell into his lap. Oh bit. June filming going on we go. Oh, we're gonna. As they it's a real visit drama to it's an amazing thing because it's much more than the comedy of it complete birds. But also it's about what we're told me is about fame in the fickle nature fame and the way those guys was chewed up and spans that's the danger. Not I mean, I think you come from such a show biz stable background with job. I'm sure your, you know, your being new to twenty of this kind of stuff, but he's that way they will risen up as, you know, same age as you young young performers, and then I mean, it's weird. They saw sabotage himself faced one. Out fix you watch people like that to watch which were being rely best out the two than when you which one do you identify? As in when we watching it, which one did you feel sorry for which one identify with? Well, because it for me, I watched it twice literally changed between the two last time. Anything has been other than the sex time. You've got actually I see what Luke's on about. I'm more on his. Yeah. You. I thought it was done by now, he's a prick. Mass mass what God his whole life the size ten enough. He hasn't really what he should've turned look John for twenty five years. Give me a break. I'm not going to be very good, right? By like, can I just say this should go is going to the other musicians? Try and be a bit better beam since online flee from the Chili's. Come my pen teasha to prove a real musician because that's what Cody for months. Every day to prove five musician because I know some bands. I love him by I love, I would love to have his guests on the podcast guys. Bannon's middle school conchas. We we were allowed to play conquers fans go to school. Madaba mortified. No, I could have had my dog who is given that she really talented musician, which I didn't know you sort of look at that ATS cheesiness a bit and you kinda go ever. But actually when you watch them for talented musicians. The music is really bad. I says Jan Jan bats music is no if there's a place in your heart for makers most good is that I want is that pick wiz. When it pre Madonna game together. I think a couple of the mmj. So let's. A station. Still do it. You presented blue pizza. Yes. I do think about you know, how I got that gig with my filthy mouth. Yeah. Presented it was. It was the first time I've ever hosted something and hosted something live. Yeah. It was great. Who are your blue Peter team from childhood's that you remember funny hawk okay? And there was the other guy. What's the guy's name Simon something you now is presented. He's like he's like fit so silent. Yeah. I remember he I remember watching his audition process to get in the blue big. It was like a really big deal after school. We would like raisins get back to the big gig. And he go to having a crush on him for a very long time. But yeah, that's what I remember your minds. Valerie singleton. Purvis and John Nokes as my I take member. Shit was only Petra till a free to the tools. Christopher trice. His name was I don't remember. William how women William Hartnell was in it. Thank. Patrick McGee was interim brim. Old colony Huck? She tried to kill me on a boat. Can she stayed the boat into me and trying to kill me? It's not something Coney hukou. She's evil. Nice. Richard bacon. Richard bacon resign because of his last jacked we shot by that. These are good guy. No, no. I know. I remember that in any. Hi, I'm I'm. When young was ill last year. Were you hoping you would? That's what I heard. Jay spot me told me about. Bridge. Make him walking down the down the street. It was better. It was. Touch and go. Oh. On. This was good. I was kind of hoping he'd die. People would have come back and most of the thing. It's a nice thing. It's like a little trip unit. People this focus p when you die people awash. From the twenty foot. Fail. My agents all sheets Clinton, more and more. This goes on sorry. Sorry. We'd get. So you are you're gonna do this Lepetit juice juice as well. Give me that exclusive. This isn't going. You can sell me. So no, I the as far as I know some busy has already been put in place, and they'll put in place a long time ago. Who was an I can't tell you. But i'm. There's a very big chance though, I'll be be on their hobby the Rufus hound of celebrity Egypt. On the side. Yeah. No, I love I love those people and. Yeah. I'll I'll always go leverage as elaborate. But no as far as I know, I don't have that gig. Still progressives. Frequent crisps that you can eat. Yeah. The kicking them out. Holiday. The Katrine is fun. Big tony. What did you do? You wanna Victoria Wood's? Yes. Yeah. My mum, and we're very good friends. They went together as and. Yeah. I got little row with an. What was it called lot rice credit, chests differed? They changed it. Okay. Yeah. It was like a spoof of lot rice to kendo foods. You know me. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was great. How was that? You good. Nice lady. Yeah. I've known him a whole lot of my earliest memory of how I went to a steps concert, and it was made in God. I sound so fucking middle-class. I went to a steps geic with Victoria wood. Ross. It was me. Mum, Victoria, Wood's and Julie Walters. Glad sorrow how did told her. Told her gigli today enjoys the steps concentrated. Dave in right? And it was for it was me mothra enjoys my brother and sister and Victoria's kids and Julie orders was that realize. But yeah, so we all went to the steps geic. And then don't French Lenny Henry time over and they were like, and I was like mom like I just want to be eight from Saturday. Like, I don't give a shit about this. I want to be everyone was crowded around Victoria my moment. Everyone was like h from steps. Yeah. That's what I wanted to do. Me eight two shots talk Victoria with the one time I mess at Buckingham Palace. I is. Better than a fucking steps kicking with St. Stephen Hawking's was that whole dead people who were that day. Greg type. Someone check Greg Davies. Wings. Davis died. Doesn't mean us. Good niece. Matthew crosby's? Why it so that's? He's a long-term fan to stop wins. Davis. Lumber. Could you not know about the racist sitcom work of winced? Charlotta? What he said. Great question for you is it was pretty allows something else for me while I get back to my brilliant question. I had. Think about if you want. It for your money which would win in a World Cup of sexually transmitted diseases. So I say it say that. Your money yet, which STD's actually transmit disease. Yes. You know, what it means would wait into work? Oh, your woman of the world, you know? Sexually transmitted diseases. What would what's the best one in one? I think is the most glamorous. Yeah. Well, you don't want to say it's pays anything that you can imagine but clemency. You can't really much because they're all no symptoms. I said comedia- is the one I've had the most. Is also Nixon named for possible minute poke student review. Sorry. That's just the one that came up. Oh, no. What we going to do? Well, see, I've not my Walter. It's not it's fallen on your face when you five years old at the ballot. Yeah. Clinton Clinton, d is the most glamorous one, isn't it? It is. Yeah. Look at this. This is going to reach. Would you commit where drives typing? I raising like Mexico. Would you say if you were executed to death? This. We'd still put out as a tribute because he would get lost hair. If you buy die this. No good. Danny one. This is dangerous as anything you experience in the jungle. Oh, you say fight table like acted as a dam. More to his gathering is. It doesn't oppo. It really is gathering is the stages slope like that. With my Olbia bats full into some kind of sinkhole. We'd already quite low underground stop trying to get me in a sink. So well with what's what's coming up? You this film stuff and can't say this stuff done, isn't this stuff? You've actually there's all Niamh debate is coming up. So there's some stuff you've been in a film. This was a while ago. You were gonna film with. From my forgotten knew it was it was with hopping. I tell just another failure long. Nobody soul this. No. This is the whole thing. This is the whole reason why I kind of change things up because it's it's it's really interesting, you you will dish in for these films that people go, right? This is going to be the one that's gonna ask to change lives going to be great. What can build these amazing people, which is great? And then you do it. And it's great fun. You meet these incredible people people that you've always wanted to make. I'm work with and then you put it when you see and then no fucker watches there. So. It in eighteen because I realized doing these films I've done I think like thirteen films now, and I think only one of them is actually more. I did it Disney film last year with Jennifer Saunders, and I did the dad's army movie was filmed ni- Jones. Exactly. No, one cares. And then I put a video up pissed my mates living room of me doing love island impressions and five million. People watched it and liked it. I was I right. I've got to change alphabet. So it was really interesting because it just kind of made me think we'll in in this day and age you just about their bit mall. But it's been a lot of these. I've been in films not very many, maybe two, but that never even came out you've done. Because of me. I'm almost married you the star of almost we'll see. What was that gets played on TV too? Yeah. That's probably the best one. Yeah. That's probably the best one. He's seen almost married. That's what my sister. Right. Agent hasn't even seen this file. There's TV too. I wanna I'm going to watch it. No, it's one of those films that you know, when you your way, you can't get to sleep, and it's midnight. And it's all kind of thing we just in your head just playing it's about a minute against an STD's when he's about to get married. He gets committee from. Yeah. I guess that's all rented after I just want to like see how this works. If we can make things spike, then people will let people come on. If we all go and rent, almost let's go and buy the DVD almost marriage sent even not just you in the room everyone at home by this week. This comes out. It's the top of the chance. I'm in it. I'm sure. But as more to come this stuff to come on the on really good sound to sound us, really easy. Honestly, you're going to be fantastic. Yeah. He's read I'm doing getting threes only is about confidence and you've got the apps. It comes to their you'd be brilliant kid. It's going to be fantastic. If there are any tickets left governance than put some more. He's actually. J's my best. I live at home for sure and. Even Hitchin I've live near hit. Yeah. I swear. Is you aborted? Yes. Don't just say lucid where were you born? I was Luton bar. I know I did I was born in the Ellen day. I was I was raised knit hitch Bedford's. I'll Murray's territory how many went to school in Bedford. That's nice. You remember making many mistakes in hitches, the old heart? I think to remember the pub. Thetford little while allies. So you look the stories of your childhood that not permeate through to my vintage. But I'm sure it's only allowed to be a show man time. There's enough gossip going on in that town. It's been really love is to speak to you and good luck with everything. Thanks. Thanks. Up listening to stop hub with rich. I'm I guess, Emily. The music is always bypassed. Thank you to everyone gonna spend. Thank you everyone. Go especially precendence, not that one. And I would also like to thank the fantastic team McKay past love me support. And our the average probably God. He's a good guy says Medac too much for walk this as a go foster stripe. Production is also a fuss productive nights. Also, a Skype Tate to production. It goes out on the internet. I hope you enjoy it. Thanks very much when name God rich sang dot com slash gigs to find out where I will be performing over the next few months and years until I sadly die if I'm dead already. Just look inside and go to per dot co dot UK, and you can get behind a pay wall. Full money it. It's lovely back there. I tell you wall to wall wanking.

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RHLSTP 188 - Jess Robinson

Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast

1:10:12 hr | 2 years ago

RHLSTP 188 - Jess Robinson

"Allo aids Richard a their book. I guess this week is Jess Robinson. Hey, why don't you buy Richard herrings emergency questions one thousand one minute see questions available? Go faster stripe dot com slash q or your local bookshop or why not try in Amazon and see if he has he probably does. And also, thanks to our sponsors, pay fifty two dot com. Even get all these different beings beers. Like this one which is called hop to pod. I. I'm scared by these ones were dragons on them and stuff. There's a dragon paleo there's a dark ecstatic involve damore would drink. Anyway, if you want get eight free graft me is going to be a fifty two dot com slash rela STA and you'll get ABS for just two thousand hundred five postage and packaging is our you on. Then you can stay signed up and get eight coffee as a month for twenty four pounds or piss off and just drink your beers. And laugh in the face of Ian, beer, fifty two. Thanks for Jin this. I you enjoying it. Come and see be live at some point get chain dot com slash gigs to find that when we do more of these. And I always see you at gig, my fine friends. Here's my podcast you like it. Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the left the square theatre. Please welcome. It's the whole time Trevor himself fades, Richard Harry. Jar your bus last week's audience. There was applause KOA the same t shirt as me unless it's embarrassing. Glad he's got. I mean, I'm glad he didn't come back. That's why welcome to rechange. Let's square theatre podcasts though. I was hanging around with some old school doctor who fans today who strongly feel to the same. We should retain. Ridgeline realism has to have of the magic alien time. Traveller must must have a penis. They strongly feel that even though we never saw so far the might come an adventure needs a dollar like needs to be something. I'm what they're going to do if it's a women. That's what. Anyway, they call it. Hopefully, this a pretty cool pretty coup characters. I'd a very nice talking about the Manchester poke cost festival I wanted to say that and thank you to their four hundred people who came to Manchester, not you might politician, avocado. He incomes. They would just they didn't even ask the guest. They still will go and see that because we love Richard. I'm gonna to the country now and you'll then you'll miss me London. He pricks I live in harsh. Now, not you. Now, you guys you came mascot. So are your your euro? Did people? Enjoy the doctor who talked to hit the new doctor who wanted we knew by the time. It goes out who thought it was bad and women should not be allowed on television. What's just me? Then. I worry rich square. The puck will never be presented by a woman is even have women on my way. So what am I thinking? I've gone. I've literally gone insight. I'm sure somebody to say at the top of the show is completely gone on my head. So we'll. Love scam for Gilles. So. Oh, it did have something to say the I've got someone who cares. Come to see this show from Austin, Texas. In america. I think they might be over there. Just some other people from Austin, Texas, and forgive me, if I get this wrong ratio Maharaj. There is come across Texas to see the show. Longtime been making donations to the scope programs that we do I wouldn't mention anyone otherwise if they hadn't come a long way and be given some nice money to. Yeah. You're names always in the programs for for my my toe shy. So thank you very much enjoying the they've been worth. Did. He come just for this. Yeah. Yeah. Good. And has it been worth it? So. Yes. Did you cover this? Yes. Stephanie has it been worth it? Yes. Okay. How things go to America? Pretty well. As I understand it. Yes. I pretty good. It's good. It's pretty it's pretty good over there and love dodo, Donald Trump. Today's. That will work wherever day this goes I wanted man what Donald Trump said today. Fuck hell, I didn't. They get an could be worse now apparently. Well, I'm thinking about isn't as bad as what you're thinking about home. That is nice the terrible truth. Anyway, thank you. Well, you're most welcome. And if you listening home do travel over to wherever the I do this show in the future when be fucking London. That's all I'm saying. So and thanks to lovely people in Manchester for they were so nice and friendly. The rope me of anything. So it was it was nice. So. At least there's no crime in London, right guys. Having a great time. One's going to get. Seem to trouble. So will you please welcome both me, and the guests I in a slightly skittish mood. My next guest is probably best known for the portrayal of smarty Soroush. Enormity Toyland detective, which I've been watching this week without not that's how good she is. Now on my own. I have three and a half year old daughter. We these congest Robertson. Welcome to the show sit down and pulled up on my phone. Nice finest one. This incredible as credible. Noughties back. Listen to seize been through time. Taking the gully walks made it back into this series on. We don't want this. Because he's a detective now, I guess if the golden works were in just it would be easy to solve the case. So. Toyland. Detective he is he's a crime, which makes it sound. Like every week. There's going to be a murder in Toyland. It's worse. Yes. Smarty sources crayons go missing. Right because pop the Panthers stolen them. What else happens someone lots of things get stolen actually this? Love thieves. Yes. But it's it's usually they mean well. Just say this multi solicits, but it's not just the smarty Soroush. Do you know who else? I am. I don't know. I'm pharma Thome. Pharma, Thome shake. Firm, and he goes on crispy cabbages. I've been watching general all this week. My daughter loves it. Oh, good. We go. It's good to see in a blatant back in. Packing. Stream was just off the racism, and she's flailing. All right. Okay. Do I will talk about this? Because you do you've actually worked with about fifty generations of children's performers pinky and perky from the nineteen fifties. Your time traveling chuckle vision wherever the chuckle brothers may offer them rest in peace. The ones. All right. What's his face from giggle biz? Oh, Justin, Justin will dangle. What's his name? Justin Fletcher Ingle tangled. Clown going yet? Just like literally dozens of years of children's stars. I guess. Yeah. So he was favourite of pinky and perky the chuckle brothers and just in Fletcher. And gnawed if you like, oh, it's not either naughty. Oh, it's just such a nice job. You just go and do stupid voices. And then they tell you to go home. And it's it's really. Chuckle vision was Wade. We did mention it back benching. Shouldn't. But that was a really wit. I've had a recurring dream about. Actually, it was quite traumatic. I had to be the chuckle brothers agent. And there was a scene. They would both be I thought I'd gone to a spa and they were both being Swedish beauty parlor people coming beauty, therapists, and they had to Smith a mixture of cat food catch up and chocolate powder onto my face. And it's it was weird to be lying down and seeing them above me like that. And that's what I've had the dreams about that will never went out. So that's the way. Film so many, and we just confirmed. Selves what you want to. Well is incredible. You're generally best known as a musical impressionists. Yeah. Frantisek singer musician actor voice over artist. I wouldn't one of the first ones. I saw you playing in vaginal tack. Today. I'm a Smith lyric Hammersmith lost time. Leeann herring performed on state. We the drummer for John. I we formed by me and the Kennedy and LIZA RIA, and yeah, I was on the drums. I was about grade five Emma was a beginner on the base. Why we thought it was a good idea? Lisa play guitar, and we did children's theme tunes in German accents. Mel goodra Cayman was dancing, but nobody knew was her because she was wearing a red light cribs. And that's the first time. I bet you. You're wearing an amazing outfit. That is sad onto my memory. And thank you for doing that. It was incredible. Even for that. Yeah. Quite gigli when he play in the. Believe me, I noticed I noticed. So you. Still played any bands. Or is that you got your own band Chessington world of adventures. They are they are brilliant. So I've got my own games that they just they just do what I say. So it's pretty. And I go onto with them and going on another touring the filter tours imaginatively called filter because you have no filter. I've noticed that backstage. It's been great. Yeah. It's gonna be fun going to try not say shit. Fuck can't say those things. Okay. So as say that that's what you can't say. Should I put onto? No, okay. What? I told you so. Now, let's go home. We're getting there. Britain's got talent. Because that's a nice uncontroversial subject. We can. Britain's got talent. Yeah. Very well. Be finals the finals the finals while a bit of control, which is because people don't really know. How Britain's got talent works. But why don't they still don't know? So they asked me to go on lots and lots of times. I always said, no. And then the last time they said. It will be fine. We'll be really collaborative. You can do what you want. Just a great showcase few. We really want you to do. Well. And so I went Oakland, then because otherwise I would just wonder what would have happened if I hadn't. So I went on ice. You talk for ages. And then they entered it down like a weapon to end up being five minutes, usable stuff. And I said, you know, I've been jogging rages, and they don't keep any of that in. So like, I was a fraud pretending that I'd never done anything before you sort of saving the clip of this clip. And you say I'm trying to do this professionally job in the week. So that was presumably true. And and so yeah. So there was sort of came out you'd been doing Atelli done by that stage. You've done lots of all sorts of stuff. But then that is the case with loss voice guy who did very well. It's been working for years. Yeah. Absolutely reading that. They are courting lots of comedians. The dances have had real professional careers. Otherwise, it would be shit. Scraping the barrel time anyway, isn't it? Well, you never nervous. But you generally, isn't it because that's why people going, oh, gee was so nervous, but you presume you haven't played like massive. Thousand thousand people in the London palladium was really scary. But the thing that they are really brilliant. Is there from nine in the morning, and I didn't go on till twelve hours later. I was I think one of the last people to go on. But all day, there's a Cymru in your face. And they are probably every half an hour wanting you can can can we just fill me pacing up and down looking nervous. Okay. How nervous are you want to scare wants to do you feel nervous? Could you say to the camera? This is the biggest thing that you've ever done. And then you just like yourself up and then by the time and the buses going off before I went on some of the poor people and the audience off off like the hunger games. It was really terrifying. And I was I was already quite nervous. But then I was thinking. Okay. This is wall my actually doing because I could actually just ruin my own career now. And anyway, yeah. So I was shitting myself. And I feel embarrassed about it though. Yeah. But then you would. Zing performance of. Impressions you've go, which are very impressive. Through other the seconds. That was better than the first. I did you who. That's controversial do. Yeah. They wouldn't meddling with a all. Yeah. Till the night before actually they changed the act again, very stressful. But. Now have a day job. So that's nice. That's good. So it was worth it. So it did make a big difference. Tizzy tore off the back of it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely huge difference. Did my first to last year, which was about Tim of fire? But amazing. And yeah, I've been working really regularly, actually. So I'm really I'm really comedians have gone on people like no James on the series after you recently anyway. Right. Who's a comedian? The I when I started circuit he was on. He was both means loved him. He was very weird doing slightly surreal stuff, and it was very unusual in the circuit in one thousand nine hundred ninety one and he's did very well. Don't don't have already got. He's been to end up at thirty. So it is it's interesting to say people go make that choice to go on them. And it seems to work, but most people you probably professional good already. It's just a. I can always look back. You know, if I'm having a tough time, a giggle if I'm feeling a bit worried about something, I can always look back and go it will not be as stressful. As Britain's got talent and everything since that is the marker everything has been so much easier than that because it really put three paces. But it does give you a boost if you will ready to use it in the right way for a little bit on this book. You're very nervous backstage. Right. So I didn't know you done this until over research for you, it you did the rise and fall of little voice a couple of which I've seen the play didn't see your of it. But it's a sitting credibly difficult time loved it. I absolutely loved it. The first time I did. It was the first time I'd ever done impressions. 'cause I was I basically I never meant to be an impressionist or anything. I lied my way into it. Just because they didn't want to go back to my day job on Oxford Street, which was working in a stock for a minute was really miserable dark and dingy. So I just lied and said, I can do impressions can I I was doing a pun to- at the time in Hertford. And they said yes in ten days come along. And then I yeah. I could I could go ready saying, but I learned out to do the Judy Garland, ROY. But that's the thing with it. Because you have to be an amazing thing to be able to sing like these Shirley Bassey. And I mean, these people have got like a low range you do can you do. Yeah. Julie Andrews, which is terrific do Julie Andrews. With the sound of museum. You're very good. Good for somebody who wasn't didn't see them as impressions to go for the voices. I saw. A student at the famous one from all. Fabulous student, Jane Horrex. And again, you didn't think of. Vera's impressions. But that's amazing. An incredibly difficult part. Yeah. And so then let onto naughty. So. Service. To going through. You just you just we're going through a divorce you're going through quite of trouble. Real fun time. Can you hear that what we say Milliken? She went through like a very difficult time and used as a springboard I made great Edinburgh show out my divorce. Yeah. I think you have to have to use these. Now, we'll happy I've got no ideas left. Okay. I'm getting married. Go. Okay. Why are we mind where you're getting married again? You tell me once all he's brilliant, though. He's much better than practice husband. That's what you think before you marry him, and then you marry him and they turn you'll see next week. See the tension next week. My wife with a couple of friends. So that we don't have to talk. So is. We're not we're not ready to love. These fantastic. So. Getting married again. He's very nice. I've met you met you and him in Brighton. Accident. See much came. See you told that you, you know, he's he's the lucky one. Have you still got the outfit from vagina tap? If you have all Maria. You play Patty steel bid in risen to three which would have been my choice. Yeah. According according to a wicked page as a video game you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am right. Go. How's that? They really boring to recall those video a lot of choice. Lights, different choices. Starring big computer screen for hours and hours. But that's what it is to play video game as well sorta visitors anyone play risen two or three. Yeah. Did you like? People man just wouldn't have done that. In these things where people don't know. It's you recognize you because obviously, we do all these different voices. Sometimes someone does like cartoons, and you go. Okay. Is that person doing that? Yeah. And so you're doing all these different ones with anyone. School of rules as well. I haven't seen that Shane the chef. I saw that on your resume. What did you play on chain the chef play northern girl who's a farmer? Play mama polenta slightly racist. So I could be racist against the Italians. Yeah. Be racist. The Mexican just not anybody else. Yeah. And so the. I was watching. I was watching videos as well. If you're of the these curious collaborations. Yeah. So that's where I think that's where those those impressions take on a new life as well. Just being very accurate impressions mash up to them together. More than that is the one with the yes, I like to imagine what I like to sort of just imagine where it'd be like people like Billie holiday sang after the brand new combine-harvester or something like that. So we do that on the tour in the audience get to choose but say. Say seen fit in the on the on the curious collaborations, we've got a little drummer boy christmasy one with Billie holiday, Nikki Manashe, just collaborating. We've got. It must be love with everyone every play. Kate. Bush is great. I love I want to be her. When I grow up. Blas solid slow played Kate Bush's. Well in. We should go. You both together backstage. She. Yes. For the bad. Just a special thing for the. Bachelor especially both in both ends is. I'll ask you questions coming Barrasso, by female people. This really record. No, right. You address. So well tonight. Thank you. That's what it says in the book. This is an emergency question for date. So that's a little clever address so address so we'll tonight, that's the way using all my charms to help. Ladies and gentlemen. What was your worst fashion decision you ever made? Oh. It was a combination. When I was maybe fifteen of getting my hair, really short. I don't know why I think mom was a bit like your head. But it looked wrong me until. Barbara streisand. When I was sixteen seventeen year. She's not go for now. Says shame vanity white braces. Okay. And they and so I- smile boy a club and they glow in the dog like skeletal. And it was really that was pretty bad wore Strauss's, I most grouses the skirt trousers. Yes. In the daily Express. Did you look up in value? Else about you? I'll tell you. What else I found out about what you are? That's what he told the daily Express almost the same question. I asked you do I'm going to ask this is looking to ask you this question. This is a question you ask today express, which I'm now going to ask to Greg Davis next week. What's your beauty secret? Oh. No one ever us men that question off school my mail. There was never. See? Said I'm just very naturally be too common. Where you said cream some person crew. Make into bit. When you look at me. This is why read about you in the tabloids. Because of course, you in prints 'cause I wanna hear your side of this raunchy story slick fate a rub. Yeah. This son says your wants pob the Ron cheaper less Qurqus troop, which was called off. Lists Laurey didn't Scotland. So they could. What raunchy behavior did to get up to during that? I wasn't ruined. I wore a red dress secret. He's on. Oh. And I did impressions. I was the vocal gymnasts. She was really disappointing for most people because like I can't do the split. But I didn't. No, the raunchiest of that was my lovely friend who I made their chichi revolver is a stripping hula-hoop who sets her tits on fire. And I saw her, and I thought you're going to be my friend and say man, she is. Oh, that's good. Yeah. There's a there's a Hulu called hula girl is that different different person. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of rivalry between those two. But yeah, looker will. I haven't seen your person hula girls. Very good. Cheech yield scratcher. Ryan you get both of them on the puck cost. Michael, please come. Maybe. Oops, light up. She does stuff with hula hoops. We'll eat them. I'm really mainly. That's good fingers. I also learned in the tabloids that you drove your current lamposts. During the divorce. I was having a terrible time. I did drive I stopped but not quicken and a bit to the left, and it wasn't actually a lamp post. It was a traffic light which came right out of the road is bad. And then mom and dad turned up. And. Mums and they were going to put me in the back of the police fan. But the policeman was really nice and said, no don't worry a prostitute to spat in there. So I didn't have to go didn't have to go in the back, and my mom went up. My dad said, please please be with her. She's just terrible times to score divorced and then mum. Separately went up to the policemen. And when she she terrible time, she's just got divorced from a. So God knows what they thought was happening. It was fine. And I didn't I didn't get charged, and I lived happily ever after and paid a lot for my insurance. Because that might have been the third car that I'd written. Hi, Dr expressively. It's like creative. Don's right. Do you have a driver on your tours? Or do you drive on Detroit's got on the train? I shed the driving with my friend. Nikki she did most of it. That's good knock out that you'll traffic lights. Well, I think it call have been in very I was going very slowly cause a dangerous weapon can take the speed cameras. If you're gonna do take out the speed cameras. How became perky nice to work with pink? Kimberlite didn't actually it was a cartoon of pinky empa-. K? I know. And I was I was then niece or something. So I was just and it was all American. I was doing was very very niece that was shit. Sky only lasted one series. I'm sorry. I remember pinky and perky they had strings and stuff. I don't really remember that because yo- young. But it makes me think of the postcard that you always see abroad, which is bad boobs, and they'd be made into picks those post. I do remember that. Chuck who'd brothers dream. So muddled rescue my numeracy question. Yeah. Is the lamest modern day invention? You could take back to the middle ages. That would make you the ruler of the whole middle aged world dustbuster that will be good. They they would love them route idiots on the people. Absolutely one coups. Taking a right down, really. I hate them random. The Queen of Mazda minute. On the other week have you ever travelled on west Midland's railway, if not what is your least favorite railway company? I have traveled that's shit. I'll tell you what don't like now is the new Jin will ever there. Call Volver or something. The Zulu Zula. There could something with the fees. It's a V in it. Something that oh, you mean the one where the talking toilets yet? But that's just virgin. But what does anyone know what they're called? Now something else is disappointing. It's just very disappoint. Pendolino while I was just live Volvo Pendolino the Pendolino goes in the bowl. Doc filled. The woman does the voice over for the toilet in the virgin, that's is e city. Hello, hello. How's it go? What she sounds like either toilet. On you. I was getting into carry on isn't. It addition to be a toilet. Thinking. But yeah, you you do this. Droplet to job. I'm not owned by the toilet the actor. You will Titian. You are toilet. I can hear in your voice. You don't have to act this. Thinking what the fuck is my life come to. Put things on the to. And it's every time if you got diarrhea or something on that journey you're going to hear that a lot of times irritate. How do you know it? So well. A love year eighteen that's what I like. He's a question for you. Yeah. Yeah. Seven one four following home. Have you ever suckled on the ducks of baron old woman? Oh, dear. I mean, it's one of those questions if you have this is going to be a blistering on. If you have this page is going to join the rest in the Bill. I haven't. Made it worse. That's double this value. Now, we're fifty two pounds my mouth feels funny now you've said, yeah. Yeah. Like would you like to work as an baron old woman? Suckled baby's future. Into a real baby. Can I think people will paying you to suckle their bricks -pected due to do it? But it would be an potato be you'd be about. The empty Doug's of a barren old woman. Go on the streets. Go who by my? Baron old dogs. I mean horrible that still nice in their own way. Yeah. I think you'd be good at that. I think so I mean, you can only do Shirley Bassey for so long. Charlie bass, he'll be doing it soon. Is your favorite flat thing? Pancake cases spooning. What did you have with us had bacon? The first time had blueberries raspberries. I did too. I didn't have rasberries though. So it wasn't that good to have some recipes on their maple syrup. Yeah. Very american. Did you make yourself in clause? Go do this morning. Yeah. I heard that train story three times. How you doing? Good a charity event. Good. Yeah. Any other Jewish people in Scotland. They all know each other. The okay for each other care for each other. I am Jewish but I'm terrible one bacon for. They asked me if I would do like the blessing before I don't know Hebrew. I know nothing bagels. And that's where it still not in place the organ in the village church. How on Jewish? We are. As a lot of money for the Scottish. Yeah. They all people really pleased. Very happy. That's nice. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. That was a nice. Because I've now I've quite like living in the country. But you come to charter giggle undergo well a long way. Don't do gigs outside a certain radius. What would luckily my begins at home is my brother lives in Glasgow. Visit. It was fine. Listen to the train toilet that. It's a high of life is always wonder who is I'm sure it's easily. No, she's a highly successful act. Just toilet. Money. We weren't believe we'll go. Hi, I'm easy. See from remember in the cupboard. Up against me. That's me. That was me something close space. That's what would happen if it was a little bit of pay loads of money to pretend not to be as a toilet. East to be public toilet. So this is a real step up. Go to the toilet on trains won't say do on toilets. Dues. No. Well. Actually. Yeah. I was living in a hostile. And how did I went to the Lou in the middle of the night? And I nearly sat down on somebody's poo that they had really carefully culled round the seat of the toilet. I think that's a skill. Thicky semi circular around. Work on that. I need to do points out find difficult. Factually, the last virgin China was on the way back from Manchester, lovely place, lovely audience. To insist both weeks, and they they someone had done a in the toilet before me. And a lot of it. Stuck to the toilet. Flushed. Then all the happen was had a bowl full of slightly bounty Brown war someone else's poet it that way on top of that. And then the train got a little shaky. Sure. So close I just thought this. I thought if the train crashes now, I hope I die. That's what happened to me. Can you put that down as one of your emergency? Toilet. Toilets. Yeah. Sometimes sometimes it's a very tricky to companies mostly questions just anyone. He won't. That's that's not how it goes quietly. Impressions interested nothing you're quite interested in there's a singers who sing one way. And then speak a totally different. She's kind of. The singing of faith. Shane says we things and then she goes all heard. What's up loose on the toilet? This is weird. I feel with the sob- is the way she sings is what she is. She is like I do. She's not of this world. Maybe from a similar place to Kate birth. Nothing. What you've got like. The quite the that's why the Julie Andrews one sort of stands out because she's very amongst all these other people she's sort of seemingly a same Mary Poppins force. Whereas all these there are quite a lot of eccentric female performance as thing that gifts these days, though, because you know, you've. You know, you've processed sounds like Taylor swift and. Ariana GRANDE who you can't even we can't even hear the words that she's singing. Clue what she's saying. But but that really hard to imitate because they don't really sound like anything. So the Judy garlands. Manashian something new you live for that. But it's sort of says that's the thing with impressions in these fine is hooking onto that thing is do an impression is. Yeah. It's quite as increasingly how do it Lewis MacLeod Jeremy mine now, which is when you find that that's is just love because it's like we haven't really seen very much when you do. But then you also can do interesting stuff with it in terms of combining those other people. Yeah. Yeah. Having things that she wouldn't say, there's a thing isn't your thing that I saw that. Which is Kate Robbins does Victoria would sing in the bond things. Have you seen that? Oh, really, really good. But it's as finding that one. Yeah. The one thing that you really latch on and that's kind of tricky. I guess impression. Impressionism icon. I'm very good accent gone by. Well, I was just love to hear just in Manchester. Oh, what's going on? I'm from Manchester, quite good. I I would. Glasco glass spent you hear this. So you can use this one thank on this about Chris Evans from Wales. See? See I don't want to miss me. Wow. So, you know, when you found did you can you tell this is going to be the one that kind of stand out, or this is just experiment. Come some come more easily than others. It took me took me ages to do. Surely Passy, but. Nikki Moniz came quite easily. 'cause I like I like her this gives me you're a hell of a guy in the funding. Little is that she she has. I mean, mama. My my like pelican fly. I mean, he's so Sean I'm loving tie. Well, she's such a weirdo. Isn't she? And I like doing Alex Jones from the wedding show. She's nice isn't she with Matt Baker says that but my favorite shoes? Sorry. Sorry. Come on my show and do. Well. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So. Of SCI fi Frisco, scoping, Natalie gases, Lee chain and the trumpet. And she's still delay. Spin stuff, quiet six. She's my favorite. Do you think about this inference on your little bit? Maybe full time though. But I think remind me a little bit of Marti Caine or someone like that. So many people have set me. I would like my dream would be to have a show light that riot show with sketches, and impressions and music and guests and so one can around March came was was lying. Wasn't name for that so much. I would love to Kane was like the came up at a time. Victoria, wood, very few female performance that we're being funny as well. She's a great singer. And yes, she did all these different things. Yeah. She wasn't up to Knox and stuff. But in my I remember is being this major force of lions, but it was a man's world that she's came up through. Yeah. At a time when there weren't so many people. But now, they're all say, it's finding that niche isn't funding that what you do with. Chance. Well, and. And for something to feel fresh enough for them to take Johnson. I guess very very skillful. Let's I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't think that's fair to you skills in comedy. On me who has no skills as that's true. Well, I'm gonna live in Cardiff and signed them there. So you do you you working on a just a panelist on the there's a new how this can catch on I play now episodes one in five of the best because the ones that I'm in and yes that was like a big gagging show of impressionist. So it's where we Bremner and Deborah Stevenson and Lewis is on one of them move me and look who's bringing coming. And yeah, there's all sorts of was directed by Joe Naismith. Who does I'm sorry. I haven't a clue and things like that. I'm radio four. So it's really silly fun. Parlor games with a good dose of itv's about. But it's still good. Now, he's as radio any fun thinking precious different song claves in show business. Anyone he works with any kind of ventral Cousteau me is definitely a perver-. Yes. Definitely one hundred percent just because they practice on people. Are imprinted with impressionists. Is there a slight element of not finding the real person by some of them? I think like you impressions that they you normal conversation. John Cole show. You can't he can't do his he doesn't know who he is called to his own voice. He I shouldn't say that. He's he's lovely do him. But Yukon, fucking wait. Thank you. From the station with him without him doing Tom Baker. Or somebody is I'm Rory Bremner boo Kumi up, and I don't really quite know what he's calling me about until you just starts doing his material to see if it works. Nerdy. I know Alistair McGowan Kona very well. Yeah. They're very nice people then a little bit more nerdy. And yeah, that totally all of us are I. Cool impressions. Freshness. Me I think Lou Kempner an I. Are a little bit different because we do stand up as well. And and other stuff normal. That's why I'm just trying to get to the bottom. I don't read it like, I see impressions is. Stuff that idea. But I just see myself as an impressionist 'cause I never really meant to be one. Lot of them started school doing the teachers and stuff who you do. Did you do that that, but I had no friends? We're getting to the bottom of it with my SIS interviewing technique sort of saying on the other freshness wit we find out the tricks. This. His getting banned from my friends. Find the teaching them rude words, making them do things. Yes. You talk about that tells you backstage, you can tell them. I am. I got I got banned from playing with my friends across the road because we're playing doctors and nurses by made them do actual urine. So. I take it seriously foods. I mean, that's not really what thoughts miss about. To remove your spleen. Very good. Right. I think we will have another merge seaquest. Yes. Please. From the what we should do a drink. How very rude we he's not drinking. I'm having a stop Tober. So far I've done three days. It's ten. I feel I should have a drink to celebrate. Do you want? I'm gonna have a pills. No, this is basically you can get eight and free Kroft. We is by going to be fifty two dot com slash esta. That sounds good. Almost made it not that Hegi. So thanks. Pills in a Cam lovely. And really, I ching. This is from the garden brewery, and it's made in Croatia. Which is an excellent place to visit. I hear I don't know is it now. Now, I've had people go on holiday there. And just say it's beautiful and everyone should go on holiday there. I find when you go on hold drink. If I was in Croatia drinkin- that pills I begun. This is the best of van, and then you drink the drink when you get home. Two. That is a delicious peer the I would pay nothing for very happy. And in a way, I am paying. Faye? I would then emailed me and say, please take me out of this contract for twenty four pounds is allowed. They're very good. It's very good. If you like craft beer great thing. Please sign up. We've taken the the pay us the money. They say that gives us at least I got a free beer. All right. This was great the Gobi left to that. Stop the backstop gloves from last week. Wow. Stuns up pretty well for seven days since flat. This is amazing. Wow. Everything. We all the other shows have kind. This is a question. I'd like to ask you have you ever imposed a Smith of any kind of question. Seven one seven how am I ever employed? A smith. Smith. Can you name? Can you name me one kinda Smith to pool? She's a wet nurse over time. Ducks. Have I over Smith Goldsmith go play here. Probably nice engagement ring. Thank you very much. My practice rings too. Them how to garden letting we're going to sapphire. I was gonna flip them. So I could maybe take my mom to a spa or by nice divorce back or something like that. And the man said to me if you get fifty pounds for the psych the money. Sleepless. What does he sounds like rum cove this? I wanted to be wrong rum cove. What's that is over what they could just to sounds like, he's rum? Sounds like a right. Non this. Oh, I don't know. I don't want to speak in live man could be entirely your fault. The marriage. Don't know shake she. It's almost certain to women's fall is what I'm saying. Yeah. Usually. Just your ex husband know that you do material about them and talk about and how does he feel about that time? He only gets referred to his practice. That's not too bad. It's not too bad. I would need got married. The first time. I think it was like thirty ish losses. Eighteen months. I been with eight years old amount of time to realize it was wrong. Still went through with it. Did you feel that it was wrong? When you got married was that a part of your brain. Because a big part, my brain Dundee, this rich fun, really. Fucking mode. She's still she's going to be the Alturas on. I was I was she may about ten minutes while something was going on. I don't know what was going on. Now thinking. She's realized. Realize what needy? I. She went through we went through. I can go to and that is no way. I understand got. She doesn't take that ring. The. It's a weird thing getting married. I'm excited. It was the best. It was like really like the best party ever. I'm so another one. Pretty initial really fun to have a second time with with the right person. I know. He's. It his heartbreak break in the audience. I head up on. He's he's a lovely, man. And he's a very lucky, man. Tell you. When the first thing, my mom said asked, my mom and dad, my mom said make sure she freeze her eggs. Listen, it very sensible advice is really are you planning on how many family? Oh, I just don't think. I would remember wherever left. There's a lot of remember you do after ten. Once happy. India was worried that I would leave it in I left her in the back of the car part. The post. Extraordinary sense. Will no way somewhere then my wife had lost a phone, and we were very stressed and we're going away this weekend for the first time of the baby. And then we had to turn around and drive back. And then I thought, oh, maybe she's in the street just run ring we until ringing. That's how tied we were. So ran down the street to ring it was in the gutter, and then my wife came into the house, which inserts you. And she said, what was really said. A new car. Left to the top of the road. So it was locked up and everything is probably fine. Window cracked. I was left in a car by my parents with window crack open a nearly died when I was reading sixties fine. The lab then was normal so loud, my sister's boyfriend used to they used to tie him. Just to like the gallery. Just he'd have like a long lead. Saying. Good. I might use them. He's really nice by the Justice. The boys. Terrible. My boy would just leave him for secondes up. The stairs. Walking now as well. So. Fell off it. We got him tied to a chair like baby, he's rocking. It fellow the other night. That will happen. And we will learn think he's the first one you take him to all school the second. Lyon is. Seven years. Oh, this thing. He's days one birthday on Friday. When I went to Manchester. I don't care about this. I wanted to say. He's going to work on his exactly we had this birthday on Sunday. He won't know the difference. Remember any of it can show him pitcher that was over? Penguin wanting you well. Yeah. I think I'd rather be the fun on wind them up on them run away. That's the last the way to do it. Nephews and nieces soul kids because my lesbian friends that believe in God. And they are I love them. So so much. I've told them to call me Jessie, darling. So they say Jesse darling. Play with me Jesse. Jesse is wonderful. I think I think everybody should do do what you want kids say that you want. You can teach them wrong things. I'm raising an army. I told my daughter I found in zoo. The monkey cage, and she started going. Yeah. I was in the month. And she said remembering it then? Bit bad. It's funny. It's great. Screwing up. It's still funny. Have you ever seen a ghost? No. Often when I'm about to get bed in the middle of the night. Or if you get to do, and then you come back. I do often imagine hand coming out and grabbing my ankle, but that's not a ghost. That's just a murderer. You just imagine it. Yeah. It's not I worry about what scary. Very scary. Yeah. Sometimes happens. Oh, so. Have you ever seen a ghost? No because they don't exist. We mental. Some of the stories we've been told on this book cost very convincing and terrifying. But they usually by people who own mentally unhinged show is. As performers amaze to be in that company. Really? Well, that's why I thought you've seen the ghost those the thought hit definitely no have you ever seen a big foot? My boyfriend's big. He has an he's terrible fungus. One of his case. To take pills for is that by. My wife doesn't want me picking my feet. I find that way. Bite my toenails used to be. Old. Do you know sometimes you eat your toenails spit them out? Can I may you little bracelet like? You were in this one up. So I'm gonna have to from memory if you banks, he's an idiot. If this is available if you want to buy this book starts pay fifty money risk ripped out fifteen four pages. Anyway, I four neither. Now, I'll give you a free copy of this book, and they're probably in the. If you not to be in a Hebron Pete. And you're in the middle. But you get to choose the person put into human centipede is nice and gets you. You can choose whoever goes either end who would be in front of you who behind you say. Can you remind me I do I have to eat their PU. Yeah. I mean, well this right, and this they might be able to hold mouth is stitched to the anus someone else's mouth is stitched to. Yes is right. This I'm amazed. You're not asked you this question before he propose? He's no into them. Just to check credit. Craddock's? My question wouldn't attorney major human centipede. Yeah. Oh, yeah. My first. Didn't work out that would be me far away. No, do I. So I think who's PU would I not mind eighteen. Yep. Got electrical this week. I apologize. I believe that percents. Who's the make may make a Markle's? Oh, yeah. That'd be nice. That she would have clean bottom hall. Eric clean. She's someone of the Palestinians down planes for. Yeah. I think that will be okay. And I could do in two hitless mouth. Oh my goodness. He deserves it. He really does. Pasta. Really? Good. Not. And I would say I'm morally in the middle of Meghan Hitler. You are in between more or less in between them. Just. Yeah. Have you ever? Shouldn't drink you next next week the Jong loon Sylvan crime becoming they may drink my wife. She does Greek. Last two just. Brian blessed? I've met lots of people that can do impressions of him. Never met impression. Brian blessed? No, I can't demand. Do no men. Can you do John Inman? He's client effeminate, man. No, okay. Joe squirrelly? What are we going to last week? She went listen to your thing about your podcast, bras, all questions about Brian Vesey. You should ask me about that last and she'd never met Brian. Until the end before that, she's dead. We behave. She trained me. She praying praying me we've Brian blessed? It can you do an impression of him. Involves just talking for four hours. Impression too. This is my freshman. Right. He's a great, ma'am. He's been love to talk. Joe? My goodness. We've the time flies by on these things especially when you're talking about poop. They are. We talking about. People with young. That's why that's what I show with. Redacted redacted in time district share with. Apprently Prince Andrew. One of them which to be met. It was do Andrew. It was. No, no. How was I was Prince Edward? He did really nice Nicki Menaj. Well, he lied to the rest of my did you go and do did you do in a special thing. Now the palace because Edinburgh thing. Wards or? Yeah. Yeah. He was he was he was he was there as the person. And I was there beta. It was pushed in I never go. Jacob edinburgh. I do any of that. But they didn't care. Long-distant mistreated voices fucked. The polish was that. No. That was a posh hotel. Yeah. It was good to high like how much to pay for the services that you rented about ten ten fifteen thousand pounds, right? Britain's got talent. That's why everyone everyone gets. Yeah. Well, did you make Callow Cal Cal? Cal cow. Trump t- much. What was something Callo? He's from Simon only met on like it was being in tally. Yeah. That was just like Amanda Holden I met in the corridor. And she was really ready, ready Radi Radi. Nice. I like to choose to come to my show is with less Dennis kiss. You could have p. Seem. Let's seem very happy and. Nice couple by does. You know, the far into the relationship was it will soon. It was equals it. Always had a twinkling for me. And. It was about it was nine ninety six and seven around that time. It was a bit before they win wrong. Love love. Fortunately, Donis Dono. Every time every time. Love doesn't die. What have you dice? Life is ultimately just very sad place to be. Drunks as his. It's fun. It's fun. Beta live. I like, it's. Okay. Yeah. Life life is a nice thing. Yeah. So ryan. Yeah. Until like twenty. Cumbrian stop dice. How old will we be? Then we'll all be dead. So. Okay. UP alive and to experience the scorching pain of the crashing into the sun. As I understand it. Is that what is that gonna happen in twenty four twenty four? Cool. Less. Donald Trump turns everything around signs up some courts. We don't Trump guys. We all say that. Now, did you vote for Brexit guys? They will say. Fifty percent of people did so someone in need. And they will right. They were hard Brexit. I'm not even sure why am I don't know? I don't know. What's true? I've been playing this character for so long walk around picking up stones putting them. Really do. I just do. No joker. Do it joke about it. But I do it. Hundred more than a backpacker and put them in the bag, and then I put them on. Okay. And I'm not mad. So. How about idea? It's good exercise. This is this a question asking if he's a niece. Would you rather be very like a bare or scaly like a fish scaler fish, right because I like swimming. But I don't do it enough. So might swim. Oh. I'm also scales. I like scales. Okay. I'll be like a mermaid mermaids Harry. What it depends? If you've got the fish head to the tail would you rather have? Would you rather fish tale? Yeah. Good question. Guess. Urgency. Why would we now? See okay, we could once. I would miss my pain is being replaced by the whole thing. Whoever is what happens this lay eggs on each of the fish. The base come out. Would miss my penis by. So I reckon I would go Loa fish because then you could at least like go to a restaurant and people would think you would regular purse. Tell you. Well, no one would know thing would you have one roller skate? I think have one roller skate on my fish tale. If you could do that. I mean, that'd be hard to maneuver. I think you'd have to slither. If you had legs, you could just walk around like a fish and well. Like a hitless lip. It's a real shame. Poor taste. Moustache for you. Don't judge people by. Copen hitler. Going to do that. We're all in trouble. So we've had a lovely time. So turned sour. Thank you so much coming in. So you're on with no filter with no filter from February until the end of may ending with a five night run at the SoHo theatre. She's going to be blue a little bit. If you get people up seeing you get people we're going to get people about the p. Audience booby able to choose. What songs they want to hear is what singers like there's also just mash things have a lovely time. Get meet Chessington world of adventures, no onto icon. I can only afford the pianist. But he's lovely names. Michael jackson. Oh, you'll right. Make him worse and bay. Thank he got bit. Right. The rest of it. It's it's loads and loads of fun and music and stand up and very failed. Good at checkout. You'll videos on your website, check out the curious collaborations, and really lovely beautiful things. They're very. Checkout just stuff and go say you're onto jets. Robbins. Take him. I guess just that music as by the people who helped. PF? Stop lovely. Thank you. Also, do the go strike team, you nice to let people, but they're still quite nice. Comedy guide least nice people. Up to them, actually, pure evil, the executive producer for this particular episode Norton. Young sounds like. This is the first strike dot com. Production and Skype chin. Oh, the internet goodbye. Thank you very much for ingesting, my podcast which square they put us if your lifetime kind sponsors, Goto dot com slash rela STA and claim your free eight craft. We is usual price twenty pounds a month. You get him for just packaging posting to ninety five. Don't forget to buy -mergency questions by for yourself by a couple of copies spare in case something goes wrong with it by one for your mom and dad by one via Graham, what I'm saying is by a lot of copies of it. Because if you do then I might be allowed on the proper tally. Thanks watching. And this thing goodbye.

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Case 124: Hinterkaifeck

Casefile True Crime

1:00:59 hr | 1 year ago

Case 124: Hinterkaifeck

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Only you can choose from bestselling full sense like Apple Sada acorns boss mom and Pumpkins boss exclusively exclusively Soda Grove Guy to Grove Dot. Co Slash case fall to get this exclusive offer grove dot co Slash Case Ball. Oh the era besides deal with serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel at any time immune support please contact you across central. FA suggested numbers confidential support police say the show nights for this episode on your APP or on our website. Today's episode contains violence against children at won't be suitable for all listeners. The small rural property of Hintikka EFFEC- lay approximately seventy kilometers north of the German city of Munich said against against Bavaria's flat sweeping farmlands meadows and porn forests the acreage earned its unofficial name from a nearby hamlet cold Cossack within PINTA being German for behind built in eighteen sixty three the single-story stern farmhouse was shaped like the letter o the living quarters occupied the longer portion of the building while Abban stables and engine room were at the other end outside the lodge. Yod autophagy too well crop fields lostock postures and to to shed that also functioned as a laundry room and bakery. It was an isolated delighted spot. The closest neighbor was half kilometer away and the nearest village was even further he nineteen twenty two Hinton Carfax was owned and operated by three generations of the group Gabriel family fronted by sixty three year old Andreas Gruber and he's seventy two hero wife Cecilia this thirty five year old daughter Victoria Gabriel also lived at the farmstead along with her two children two year old Joseph and seven year old Cecilia who was named after her grandmother but went by the nickname. Sealy Sealy seely attended primary school in the nearby municipality of Vodka Hyphen with classes scheduled six days a week including Saturdays on on Saturday April one nineteen twenty two sealy was absent from school. It was not unusual given she was prone to illness and was noticeably sibley exhausted the day before the teacher led the class in the Lord's prayer to help silly recover before moving on with their studies later that afternoon to coffee merchants delivering an order to into coffee noticed. All of the doors on the property were locked and nothing stood within could here don't balking from inside the stables accompanied by the sounds of cattle. The merchants went up the road to a neighboring being property and informed the Schouten Bell family that he took off appeared deserted said is typically busy for the Gruber Gabriel family family with members often sawed it working around the farm yet postures remained empty the next morning to to friends of the household waited by the front gate to meet Victoria Gabriel on their weekly walk to Sunday mass. She failed to appear so the PAC continued on woods without her although pastas bought were also beginning to notice the activity in Tacoma affec- When no-one ungraded the postman on Monday he through the kitchen window expecting disable bustling a bell but the room was empty at nine. AM on Tuesday April four and the Kenneka Rod I scheduled appointment to repair days of engine Hay to Ooh the cattle mooing and Doug Balking from within the stables but he's knocks to the front door went unanswered and there was no smoke coming from the chimney thinking the family must have stepped out. He went to inspect the engine room and noticed the luck was broken and easily removable. He carried rigged the engine to the tool shed and spent the next four and a half hours fixing it afterwards as he walked across the courtyard he noticed the previously the locked door to the bond was now what open and the family's pet at. Jim and spits watchdog had been removed from the stables and was now taught the front door snarling mechanic assumed someone had since returned time but was confused as to why they had an approach team hey to visited the neighbouring shorten bowel residents to report on Hintikka affects unusual stillness concerned turned for the family forty eight year old Lorenzo shorten. Bala sent his two young sons to check. If anyone was home they found the entire farmhouse is locked with no lights on inside all was silent except for the cattles loud frantic sanding mooing so so azalea had inherited into coffee check at age thirty five following the death of her first husband in eighteen eighty five with whom she had two children the following year she married the properties. Farmhand twenty-seven year out in driest gruber generally viewed as helpful in dry. Try it was willing to lend a hand. He's neighbor's farms but was otherwise the socially withdrawn person hey in. Cecilia had three daughters yet. Only their first born Victoria survived infancy group is we're a private family who rarely interacted without this gossip predicted and dries babies off and then he's to deceased children had passed away from mistreatment and starvation unsavory unsavory room is about Andreas unsettling relationship with his daughter. Victoria gained validity when at age sixteen she admitted to a neighbor that her father was forcing himself on her and she could not bear the sort of him CECELIA's two children from her previous marriage. Eventually Angela moved out of hinted Cossack leaving Victoria behind toll slim and strong Victoria did more than her fair share of labor around the farm. She had a serious disposition but was the most social member of her family performing as a leading member of the church choir and attending mass every Sunday by the time she turned twenty seven Victoria was engaged to a man named Carl Gabriel and the pair what married in April of Nineteen Fourteen Following Day Union Victoria and call granted the date to hint a cough Eck Andreas and Cecilia remained living at the property and working on the land married to law was fraught for the newlyweds primarily primarily due to an dresses dislike of his son-in-law call complained to friends that Indra his bullied into amended him sometimes just by depriving him of meals. He returned to his parents. I am a few weeks after the wedding but they insisted he make the relationship work. So as Victoria was the group is only child ownership of hinted coffee would eventually pass to the Gabriel family. Should the couple have children. Uh less than four months into their marriage Carl enlisted to fight in World War One when he left for the front lines in France France Victoria was pregnant with their first child called was killed in action before the year's end and he's daughter. Sealy was born one one month later three quarters of Cars Land Tato Pasta too. He's newborn and the remainder went to he's making Victoria. The saw I saw at Altona of hinted fach six months Software Carl's death Victoria into Father Andreas convicted of having an incestuous relationship. The charges related to crimes occurring between nineteen ninety seven and nineteen ten when Andreas was age June his early fifties and Victoria in her early Twenties Victoria received a one month prison sentence and Andrius one ye so both returned to hint a cough back upon narrow lace and the Family Resume Today reclusive existence in September nineteen contain nineteen Victoria gave birth to her second child Joseph. The birth certificate listed the initials LS Joseph's Fatheh aw which correlated with a break relationship Victoria had a year prior with we don't enable the rents shorten Bella regardless Seles townsfolk suspected the chart was a product Victoria's incestuous relationship with her father in the nineteen twenties. Were Tom of political and social upheaval for Bavarians impacted by World War One but the residence Pinter Carfax found themselves in stable financial position the family of five were well off tending crops and raising cows oxen oxen piglets and chickens although they had a reputation for being stingy with money in November one thousand nine hundred twenty the family a high twenty-three-year-old crush Rageh has they're leaving made while at the farm crash of a herd Andreas Order. He's not to remarry Mary as he would be hers. As long as he lived in driest wants kept Victoria locked in a closet when a suitor arrive to ask for her hand didn't marriage then in late nineteen twenty one crushing centered the bond and witnessed Andreas into Victoria engaged in sexual collectively Victoria later explained that if she had known crash chance was a bad to winter she quote would not have surrendered to her a father crush Brazil and ten months into her employment and the family began searching for replacement the following year in March of nineteen twenty two hint Cossack was disturbed by a series of strange events. I I a set of case went missing. Then and Munich based in newspaper was found on the property. No one in the area subscribe the publication or had recently traveled that far interest queried the postman but he had no idea how it got there on the morning of Thursday March thirty Andreas noticed the padlock on the engine room. Dole was Bergen. Nothing thing appears to be missing but snow had been tracked inside indicating someone had entered he noticed two sets of footprints in the snow hidden from the fields to he's dead never know tracks leading away. Andreassen candidate. He's neighbor. Hey by the wrench. Clinton Bella yeah fields and mentioned the break in footprints and amazing caves the wren's hadn't noticed anything suspicious but offered to contact police and to lend Andreas his revolver for Protection Andreas refused. He didn't want police in east home and felt capable of defending himself lighter Andreas rain into a different neighbor expressing his belief that rogues were inside his house. Indra rejected his neighbors invitation to search the property claiming he was not afraid when he returned home light light off he noticed the cow was loose from the stables and running around in the yard that same day Victoria Gabriel L. was out looking for a new maid. She visited a woman named Francisco to inquire whether her sister forty five year old. Maria bound got got. NAH would be interested in the row. Maria was deeply religious and introverted woman who had worked as a maid since mother's death in nineteen. Oh four four she often counted discrimination due to her slot intellectual disability and a birth defect that left one leg significantly shorter than the other as such Francisco graciously accepted the hinted Cossack job on behalf of her older sister with Maria scheduled to arrive to the farm the following day that evening as members of the group Gabriel family light in their respective beds. They heard a muffled footsteps pacing daddy above with a torch Andreas made his way upstairs to investigate the gate but only fanned lodge amounts of Straw scattered across the floor that school the following morning of Friday March thirty one seven year old sealy Gabriel was noticeably exhausted and fell asleep in class Joe Walker and asked if something was wrong ceiling made no mention of the noises the night prior instead. She said her family had spent the night searching for her mother who had run into the woods author of all and altercation with Andreas fees that Victoria ed drowned in a nearby river subsided at daybreak when she was discovered sitting on a tree stump. Meanwhile had hintikka fake Andrius conducted another thorough search of the farmhouse but was unable to determine the source of the noises the not before hey and Victoria left the farm in the afternoon to complete several errands in the nearby town of Shrill Ben Harrison while they're Andreas told Oh to hot west door clerk about the troubles on his farm adding quote. I am not afraid. I'll have already prepared my Rossio. Victoria mentioned the unsettling events to another showcase Honda expressing fee that somebody was determined to break into their the property at five o'clock that Afternoon Rain Maria Baumgartner arrived to hint Cossack escorted by her sister sister Francisca Cecilia and young Joseph with the only family members home at the Taunton. Maria was the lead to the made quarters orders tucked away off the kitchen where she reside throughout her Employment Franciscus Day to help Maria get settled but was to return home before dark. Though it was spring snowy weather at Bain remarkably called and storms were anticipated filet at that not Francisco farewelled her sister and exited the House Franciscus since hint a coffee. Dick was an eerily lonely place as she approached the dirt road. She turned to see Maria running towards her. Maria hugged her sister firmly wanting to say goodbye again. Franscisco wasn't particularly close to her siblings but she returned the dod embrace and promised to visit again soon. It was over the weekend that into coffee fell L. Unusually quiet sealy filed to show up for her Saturday school class and the remainder of the family were absent from the fields. The house was locked up into lifeless with the only sands coming from the animals security and saw this stable on Tuesday April four four Lorenzo Shorten Bella and his two young sons collected to other neighbors Jacobs Eagle and Michael Pell and headed to hinted coffee concerned that Andreas grew may have taken his own life. They arrived at around five pm to discover all the animals were secured it away and the doors to the building were all locked except for the one to the engine room inside the group attempted to open up in a second interior doors that lead into the Bonn but it wouldn't Beim at Bain propped up on the other side preventing entry after some heavy I pushing the bean gave way and the men entered the dim bond with flashlights in hand. One of the stables was open and a cow had broken loose from its pen the rents Klondike ver- aboard slipping on some hey as he went behind him Maku. Oh cool shuffled his way through the dog. Suddenly he Yoda as foot the rent's looked down and saw a foot sticking out from a pile of high he pulled it towards him on covering the body of Andreas grew dressed in trousers and another sure he's face was covered in blood and he had suffered significant head injuries. The Wren's could I'd say three more bodies partially concealed under the Straw Jacob that D'Amato staggered out of the bonding shock but Lorenzo has remained behind and inspected the three other corpses finding Cecilia Victoria and Sealy with severe head wounds. It's is Delia and Victoria fully dressed and sealy will head knocked down the wren's dragged the seven year old towards a wall where the lighting thing was better. Jacob returned and asked him to stop into white for the place but Laurenz replied on looking for my son. The two year old Joseph was nowhere to be seen the wren's proceeded towards the adjoining stables noticing a pickaxe macaques leaning against the wall. The family dog was taught up in sawed despite the mckennie having seen restrained by the front door and the hours Zolia the dog had a wound above its Roy and recoiled and shook when the men approached the cattle were making a lot of noise prompting the wren's toward a Jacob to throw them some. Hey the rents continued to the door which connected acted the stables to the living quarters finding it unlocked. He entered the kitchen and searched the house funding. Joseph Stroller in a bedroom room with a woman's skirt draped over the top. The rents pulled this good Assad and saw the todd la quote with these head shouted he then unlocked real door to let Jacob into Monaco Lynn Jacob questioned where he had gotten a k. from two which Lorenzo Lorenzo responded to did Bain in lock in the maid's quarters and mattress had been pulled from the bed frame onto the flow aw to fate Polka from under a check to do Vei on top one wearing a shoe and the other bear the wren's removed removed the blanket and revealed the buddy of into Cossacks recently hired made Maria Baumgartner who had also enjoyed a horrific attack Jacob into mockery rush to the nearby village of Grogan to raise the the alarm Lorenzo's wanna-be sons to inform the local mayor while he stayed behind to look after the livestock the men notified let anybody authorities and place the coal to the police chief in meany use of the gruesome massacre spread quickly and bus six. pm a crowd had gathered at him to cough. APEC as authorities had yet to arrive and notably com Barron's took it upon himself to a school and visitors through through the property pointing out the bodies they went one neighbor cautioned him against allowing anyone else in in case they disturbed the crime saying the Lorenzo replied that they were already there and there was nothing hey could do about it. More people traipsed through the building with one guest reportedly pausing the kitchen to fix themselves snack. Five investigators were dispatched from unique along along with two tracker dogs but a slow journey meant they didn't arrive until one thirty a M as it was to dock for them to inspect Crime Sane Zane directed at the Mannheim until I ally they arrived to hint a cough back at five thirty the following morning with a fan Lorenzo should still watching over the farm lead investigator detective George Wrong Rubel and at the Bonn on the buddies of Zia and Victoria Wood beyond the threshold Andreas sincerely was through positioned by the wall where the rents instead left them all for had sustained fatal blows to this goal but there was no blood splatter anywhere except on the door that led to the stables opponents -pecting peacocks propped against the wall detective wrong gruber noted it was clean but took red brown spots on the handle for bloodstains stains. The wren's informed that detective hey believed this was the murder weapon and the cattle must've lifted. Clean investigators made their way into the kitchen. When I noticed the few blood spots on the threshold leading the maid's room in Saude God Maria was fully dressed into lying in the fatal position on the floor appearing as though she had been attacked before she prepared for bed there Arosa some small bloodstains in the hallway leading to the families bedrooms but there were no bloody footprints the room Victoria shared with her two children had been grain sacked with cupboard doors flung open and an empty US papers a notebook and a watch strewn across the bed but but no other areas in the house showed any Sohn's of burglary the roof of Joseph Stalin had been torn apart by a forceful blow and the killer had used one of Victoria skirts to conceal the boy's body he added Kebob. The ban investigators noticed his tae had been spread across the floor and featured several impressions as though one normal paypal headline there Bacon rhines as well as human. The next government were found in the corner. There were also some loose tiles on the roof that could be raised slightly to view the living quarters. Dr Outside as external doors to the property had been locked from the inside investigators wondered how the perpetrator exited at the building following the murders to police dogs were seventy out into the woods to track down evidence but nothing was found it had rained in recent days and much of the snow that had previously covered the ground had since melted away. Detective wrong grew noted in his report. There are no tangible clues about the person's sore offenders mm-hmm statements were taken from local residents including three men who discovered the crime scene Lebron Schlitt and Bella Jacob Siegel and Michael Pell Lorenzo insisted he hadn't let anyone else into the property off funding the buddies to spot several statements to the contrary Hey claimed the family had one hundred thousand marks in cash stashed on the premises yet investigators only found a five mar bill tucked away in a prayer book as such rubbery was the suspected motive for the massacre however the perpetrator ignored many valuables boost in the home including jewelry watches and more than twenty two hundred marks worth of gold and silver coins witness statements were used to piece together probable. Tom Line of events given SEALY's absence from school on Saturday April one. The murders were estimated demanded to have occurred between eight. PM and Eleven PM on Friday March thirty one experiments concluded that screaming inside the bond it could not be heard in the house though the more the internal door leading from the house into the bond was narrow enabling only one individual to winter at a Tom thus had seemed unlikely the entire family were killed a once in saw the bomb as some would have had the opportunity to Defla it appeared as though that were Louis Dean one at Tom. Interest Group is previous remarks. The neighbors Abbas that a cow had inexplicably escaped into the yard leading investigators to presume this was the technique used the drill the family out of the Hass given that Lorenzo Schlitt and Bala moved to of the buddies the order of the killings couldn't bay confirmed police suspected Victoria and Cecilia with the first victims as they were both fully dressed next Andreas who was in the process of changing into his is not close followed by Seeley who was ready for bed after that to kill rented the living quarters and struck Maria from behind on before murdering Joseph the family's entire bread supply and several paces of smoked me were missing and this coupled with witness reports that the hint of Cossack Aloft stock were quiet immediately following the massacre led to the belief that the Killa remained at the property off to the SLOTA possibly for several days fading themselves and the animals the delay in discovering the bodies and disruptions to the crime scene hampered forensic evidence but the investigation was minimal regardless. No fingerprints were collected. Even though this method had been established more than a decade earlier and only fought photographs were taken of the crime sane autopsies were conducted on the grounds of hintikka affect the sane by a crowd of onlookers adore was placed across to wooden trestle trestle to function as a makeshift table. The District Court doctor confirmed all six victims had died from head injuries by the blunt edge of `them. Ya to such as peacocks the perpetrator repeat a left handed as majority of the wounds were inflicted on the right side. The victims heads Victoria had sustained the most injuries including markings consistent with strangulation and into non stop shaped wounds to her skull seven year old sealy was the only victim who did not die instantly enduring two to the three hours of agony before finally succumbing to her injuries it was believed had she received immediate medical attention. She would have survived survived. The heads of all Sikhs victims were sent to the pathology institute at the University of Munich for further examination and into their bodies remained hintikka Thac to a white barrio as two officers carried sealy's body in so at the ban they noticed rope ripe hanging down from the loft above which had not been there moments earlier they climbed up and so did handprints on the dusty Beim. The rope was taught a to police dogs were dispatched in an attempt to capture whoever had been hiding above but no trace of the individual vigil was found a hiring can be a slow process cafe tourist chafe operating officer Dylan Moskowitz Go. It's needed to hire a director of coffee that he's organic coffee company but was having trouble finding qualified applicants so he switched. Ziprecruiter ziprecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It funds then for you. It's technology identifies people with the right experience and invites them them to apply to your job so you get qualified. 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Matching coffins were carried to the church on a wagon father. Michael Haas told the congregation that God viewed murderers terrible abomination and a man with no spark of faith in his heart could commit such a horrific act the five members of the grew by Gabriel family and Maria bound gotta with buried together in a mass grave with the adults coffins flanking the children's Tony Caskets police announced a reward of one hundred thousand marks for information about the killer's awed entity demand was soon increased to five hundred thousand marks and posters were distributed throughout the region to publicize the investigation the murders had shocked and terrified the local community and made newspaper headlines Headlines across the country fearful citizens began reporting friends neighbors and other individuals who they deemed suspicious rural residents were advised to be vigilant especially at naught and to thoroughly searched their properties h evening they were also encouraged to Cape Lodge God dogs for protection look out for their neighbors and devoid storing valuables so large sums of money in their homes tiles of the strange events at Hintikka fake proceeding domestic spread and several more bizarre incidents were reported two weeks before the murders father ha supposedly found anonymous donation of seven hundred Goldmark Sienese church which he suspected had been left by Victoria Gabriel so when he queried her about it she reluctantly admitted to making the Sauza bowl donation a local carpenter reported uh on Saturday April one he walked past into Carfax and around eleven thirty pm more than twenty four hours after the motives were believed to have taken complies. Hey store a lot shining from the oven inside the farmstead and Toco of smoke coming from the chimney he then notice notice the figure holding a flashlight moving dad in the Yod the forget began to approach shining the light in his eyes somewhat spruyt the company a hurried home without stopping in addition to rubbery other motives were also considered destroy relation marks on Victoria hinted at it being a personal attack and some speculated the motor could bay a school to lava others believed the killings were a form of retribution for Andreas. Than Victoria's incestuous relationship following the murders victims relatives embarked on a legal battle live arena shape of hinted Cossack as Seeley was the loss to die. She had been the Foam Solana for a brief period. Therefore the Gabriel saw the family believed possession of the property should pass to her paternal grandparents. The motto was resolved out of Court with the Gabriel's purchasing into Cossack from the group is for three million marks in late February nineteen twenty three. They decided to demolish the toy at property they commissioned nodding to paint a watercolour picture of the property beforehand all hint capturing the what vom has in field of grain framed butting trays the next day carpenters dismantling the roof trusses noticed several loose floorboards in the attic next to the staircase they brought them up revealing small nest of Hay underneath along with a blood stained medic a hand tool commonly used for clearing small trees and shrubs it had a blunt horizontal lacks head and and a long wooden handle along saw it. It was a small meadow hoops coated in dried blood. The tool had previously belonged to Andrius grew as neighbors recognize the distinctive screw protruding from the handle. Hey had fitted during repairs descru- perfectly matched the stash eight injuries to be Tories skull and police declared that matic as the Moda weapon several several days later while clearing out the Bonn excavators found a bloody pen off close to where the bodies had been fanned maintaining they had conducted a thorough search of the crime sane investigators believed the killer returned to the farm too hard dramatic impact off once the head of the investigation at dot Dan Dan no fingerprints were recovered for May their autumn given the social and cultural climate of Bavaria at the Tom. Political motivations for the murders were also considered the region was a hub bed for paramilitary organizations and extremist groups and it was theorized that Andreas Gruber had belonged to one and either embezzled funds ooh committed treason investigators sought to question an individual associated with one such extremist group thirty three year old owed former soldier adult gump after World War One gump joined the Bavarian paramilitary faction and eventually formed a commando remainder unit within the group in Nineteen Twenty one he participated in the massacre of non farmers which he often boasted about unsubstantiated rumors accused gump of having been romantically involved with Victoria Gabrio Helluva he could not be found three weeks into the investigation policing meany received a letter requesting looking to cal Gabriel Victoria's fulmer husband. Carl had been reportedly killed in action during the war eight years earlier yet. He's body was never returned turned to Germany and stories circulated of soldiers who fight that death to leave under assumed identities the theory was the call had done exactly that but upon learning of the incestuous relationship between Victoria Andy Andrius returned to into effect to murder the entire family police spoke with several of calls fellow officers who confirmed they had seen his body after his death and revealed he was buried in a war cemetry demetriou France other theories centred on Carl's family. They carried out the mood is for financial gain or revenge for this ONS unhappy a happy marriage several locals expressed suspicion towards brothers call Danton beak la well nine thieves would work to enter Cossack during harvest seasons one witness client call declaw had proposed the idea of rubbing into Cossack while another unnoticed the brothers had recently been spending a significant amount of money despite being unemployed hint Cossacks full night night crush ends Riga explained that the brothers familiar with the layout of the property and Danton was one of the few people whom the family dog never barked doc that according to crush ends Anton once remarked that the family needed to be killed when she informed her employees. If he's comment then they dismissed the threat. This incident prompted crush ends to quit has shaped via the brothers. Were planning an attack call big. Lou was taken in for questioning during which he professed his innocence and was able to provide an alibi himself in Danton. The brothers had been rain drinking in a Bar fifty-one Columbus sale of hinted Cossack at the dawn of the nerd is months later on August to the mother of another set of brothers Colin Dangerous Troia confess to a neighbor that her sons were responsible for the Koran. Destroy Brothers were arrested and a hearing took place the following month but both men were released due to a lack of evidence other suspects included a former soldier who had escaped from Bavarian Mental Health Hospital a year before the murders he was believed to have burgled properties in the vicinity of hinted coughing though there was no evidence linking him to the farm and he's whereabouts remain unknown suspicions were also cast Lorenzo Schlitt and Bella the neighbor who discovered the buddies that he took effect the wren's had resided in the same farmhouse yes on the fringe of golden his entire life he also served as the village. God collaborating with the low cancel and acting as a spokesperson for the community eighty two weeks after his wife Pasta way in Nineteen nineteen the rents commenced a brief romantic relationship with Victoria Gabriel who was thirteen years his junior in light nineteen eighteen. He asked Andreas but permission to marry Victoria on the condition doc. Andrea ceased having sexual relations with her in dryness reportedly replied we will say when when Lorenzo next saw Victoria. She said she was pregnant with his child. He refused to accept. This convinced that Andreas was really the father three days. After Joseph was born Lorenzo reported Victoria and her father to the authorities for incest and once again Andreas driest was taken into custody. Victoria begged him to withdraw his statement offering to reimburse the child support. Hey would be required Caparo if he claimed paternity. The rents are great and the charges were dropped. He was named as Joseph's father a relationship Russian ship he occasionally acknowledged but more often denied he maintained a pilot though tense relationship with Andreas and Victoria Low Gossiping and criticizing them Moran Town upon discovering the brutalized the bodies of his neighbors including in his alleged son the wren's was remarkably calm witnesses commented on his apparent agonise to disrupt the crime sane with detective Georgia on Gruber not in his initial record quote. It should not be left unmentioned to that the head of the district. LA- renshaw Layton Bala showed a somewhat exploited behavior. He talks a lot and also makes himself otherwise important took care of everything and was also well acquainted with the domestic circumstances of the moded detective longer about also noted in his report that there was known motive for Lorenzo to commit the killings. Jacob Ziegler was also present when the bodies were found he had been suspicious of Laurenti since he been to the farmsteads front door with a K. He claimed was already in the lock. Jacob openly referred till the wren says the coffee fivefecta murderer prompting Lorenzo to sue him for defamation and publish an article in the local paper that read. Why won't anyone one who spreads rumors that was involved in the murder in hint cough eck from now on all will go against anybody. Spreading such room is where the wealthier naught with a lawsuit four years after the murders the Schlitterbahn was home burned down villages villages God that to help extinguish the flames but the damage was severe and many of Lorenzo's important documents including some relating to Joseph Gruber's paternity vanity would destroyed that same year detective George Ron Gruber stepped down from the hinted coffee case and Criminal Inspector Expecta- Martin Read Maya Toga on the nine year anniversary of the crime in nineteen thirty one read my reopened the case and great interviewed K. witnesses including a tearful the renshaw whitten Bela who continued to profess his innocence. Hey attributed reports of he suspicious suspicious behavior to quote helpful actions at the crime sane read. Maya concluded clues for further action. N- no longer available a decade after the murders took place an article in a German newspaper reflected on their lasting impact on the quiet rural community quote the gruesome atrocities still holds. The residents of the show. Van has an area far R&D in Tara. decays is still much talked off today. The relatives of the Gruber and Gabriel families were also investigated as possible suspects with financial benefit considered a motive as CECELIA's soda from her first marriage had lent Victoria a substantial amount of money for farm repairs yet. This line of inquiry didn't progress aw in nineteen thirty seven the two brothers of Victoria's deceased husband cal Gabriel allegedly confessed today made of committing meeting the hinted Carfax mood is for monetary gain. The men were arrested subsequently released without charge three weights light up after proving proving die had purchased the hinted cough estate with their own savings by the end of the nineteen thirties. The investigation was set aside completely slightly as the second wall comments during the nineteen forties bombings by allied forces on German cities such as Nuremberg communiqu destroyed much of the evidence relating to the case including vodka documents and the skull of the victims six years after the war interest in the call case was revived when a series of along full monty booze about the motives were penned by journalists to Joseph Ludovico fake Hecuba and published in a Bavarian knees pipe up as a result several German prisoners of war came forward alleging to have been released by. Oh I Bavarian speaking Soviet officer who claimed responsibility for the hintikka affect murders days assertions ray ignited rumors that call Alga Brio was indeed alive and carried out the crime the lighter dismissed when the men revised this segment reducing credibility in May nineteen fifty two longtime suspect tend extremist group member adult gum was once again implicated uh-huh adults had passed away years earlier but according to statements he sister lighter made to appraised he confessed on his deathbed to carrying out the killings with these brother rainstorm following this revelation into on was arrested today released two weeks later and the gum brothers were eventually ruled out of the investigation entirely in nineteen fifty five the hint. A coffee case was shelved indefinitely despite going called Germany's fascination with the mystery insured theories and conjecture in Jewish throughout throughout the years in Nineteen Seventy one Colin Dangerious Troia the brothers who were briefly arrested in nineteen twenty two after they mother reportedly confided in a neighbor about their involvement in the murders would cost back into the spotlight a woman claiming today the daughter of the Naba penned a letter to the attorney general had explained that during the visit Mrs Schreyer reportedly remarked quote. Hello Andrius regretted that he lost his penknife. Curiously the discovery of the bloody pen off at into contact had been kept down there wraps by investigators. Police interrogated the woman who read the letter but with no evidence to support her claims the Investigation Gatien faulted once again in nineteen seventy eight journalists Padar Loesch now published the first book on the murders todd a hint a Cossack Germany's most mysterious murder case the book was such a success that sold out for extended periods so in Nineteen ninety-one film director Hans Fagin adapted the book into a documentary called hint a Catholic symbol of the uncanny the documentaries on the case followed over the years as well as a play a radio program and a fictionalized film twenty years after the release of book. He published a second edition after gaining access to further documents from unique in the mid nineteen nineties. He's final interviews were conducted with several of Sealy Gabriel's fulmer classmates detective Conrad Muehler of the Ingolstadt police assisted and found on himself fascinated by the unsolved case he continued to looking into the murders will offer. He's retirement in the nineteen nineties. Collecting a total of twelve bond is worth of evidence teaming up with criminal profiler cloud and faced the pit theorized the slayings were personally motivated with strangulation marks on Victoria indicating she had been the prime target in two thousand and seven fifteen students from a Bavarian police academy looked into the case to save it could be solved using twenty-first-century techniques they compiled compiled two hundred pages of documents and critiqued the shortcomings of the original investigation including police neglected to interview the mechanic who had visited the property the day the bodies were found and two three years. Elida Luck Conrad Moolah and clouds invasive. The students suspected to Killa Ah was personally motivated. Due to the manner in which they had concealed the victim's bodies knife included wasn't possible to solve the Krahn due to the lack of forensic evidence the significant loss of documents and the death of K. witnesses. They did establish a prime suspect but declined. I want to ninety individual have respect for surviving family members and descendants. The hint aquatic mode is captivated evaded armchair sleuths and independent investigators in Germany and around the world in two thousand Seventeen American crime writer Bill James and his daughter Rachel McCarthy James co-authored a book todd the man from the train which chronicles their attempt to solve all his valise corrects. Iraq's motors in which six members of the more family and two guests were murdered during a brutal home invasion in nineteen twelve off to studying the case in similar contemporary motives. Oh live at the United State. The Father Daughter Tamed concluded that the unsolved crimes were the work of a single Google perpetrator a gym born farmhand named Paul Moolah who fled to Massachusetts soft. Hey was suspected of murdering the family that employed him. They theorized he returned to his homeland where he lied murdered. The group Gabriel family in the same manner the no concrete evidence supports these allegations in two thousand eighteen former detective Conrad Moolah fondly potted with the evidence he had collected on the hint okafor that case and gave it to the Bavarian Police Museum in the city of Ingolstadt mulas documents now sit alongside a range of other displays at the museum's Museums Hint at Carfax exhibit which aims to highlight the evolution of police methods over the past century. The exhibition has attracted thousands of visitors today's over the past several years and will close on October six two thousand nineteen. Hint Cossack remains one one of Germany's most talked about unsolved crimes over the years police have conceded a total of one hundred five potential suspects but despite spot several arrests no one has ever been charged midst sprung up around the case including that full made crush Ceriga left hinted Cossack after repeatedly hearing someone in the attic at nought hold. Nothing in her police statement indicates. This is true in recent years a local God began offering ghost tours of the saw with participants meeting in the town of Vied Hoven and proceeding on foot through fields IOS and forests to the empty property for the relatives of those connected to the crime into coffee continued to cause suffering long after after the murders the rent Schlitt and Bela considered by many to be the prime suspect dodd in nineteen forty one. He's descendants of spokane. You can have been negative impact. The association had on their own laws in two thousand ten his daughter Regina told the media she and her siblings were roster saw throughout their lives commenting at some point de must be peace after the hinted affect farmstead was demolished in nineteen twenty-three a waste shrine was erected on the land and still stands today mocked with the crucifix fix the Small White Memorial Frank by twenty fence and neatly manicured plans an inscription rates godless murderous hand fell the Gruber Gabriel family here on March then he won nineteen twenty two this inscription is followed by the name of age victim and their year of birth the former land into Cossack. He's now used for agriculture. Is there a divide hyphen symmetry atole duck gray obelisk marks the resting place of Andreas Cecilia Victoria Korea Sealy Joseph and Maria it Biz a similar message to the Sean but is also bending grave with a brief verse from the Bible's This Book of Psalms God remembers those who suffer he does not forget dare cry and he punishes those who wronged them enjoy.

cal Gabriel Victoria Father Andreas Victoria Maria Baumgartner Cossack murder Victoria Andy Andrius Victoria Gabriel Lorenzo Lorenzo Joseph Carl Gabriel Francisca Cecilia Gabriel George Ron Gruber Andrea cattles Lynn Jacob Victoria US Germany
RHLSTP Edinburgh 2019 04 - Sophie Duker & Vikki Stone

Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast

58:58 min | 1 year ago

RHLSTP Edinburgh 2019 04 - Sophie Duker & Vikki Stone

"Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the new tampa. Please welcome a man. He's just had a practice. I'm jay lobster roll. La la once fringe is going well ordinary badly the us tonight to ah come tomorrow busy tomorrow for some reason welcome to hearings leggy still tenacious podcasts skits goose that a little bit from the bunga picked up from my child. I was kinda around with thirty to fifty zero hubs today. They call cholesterol senator. That's gonna catch on sas tokyo. Take matt force. That's ultra is that's been in the room. Don't even know what it was referring to and it's haven't been tweeted. Adwan exactly sure myself l date collins in front of the ghost colin his turned up. Uh easter come every single day is unsmiling presence in front of my shows. It's good to see liam's as well. Let's say you take what's been going on up and see some showers. I went to see the monkey mouse kerryon as many kids shows. I'm going to be recommending if you if your aw between two and five you're gonna love the recommendations very very good so trump solving quite good and i saw brilliant really piece <hes> out by the meadows just the playground into a three year old. Go leaving the playground. Go daddy just sort of walking towards the road. It's amazing how this kind of immersive after joining it's as frowned upon to spoil the performance then a man came up told this is what has they said my daddy's at all. What was it gonna. Luckily the data's release shoulder back into the playground but he could have gone either way. It was up to assume if he's okay. I didn't get a man in the news had had his was went into the hospital for bladder operation. These foreskin removed you see this see. This story is got twenty thousand pounds in compensation. The station is kind of good to know how much worth and i say last just a little bit. The end most valuable property with brexit coming up is this could be it is good to know. You've got a valuable commodity only seventy as well so i mean take that the age of the penis into account when there is a shine to competitor at the end of the world so i'm going to talk about giving the tape no way i'm above that i'm above sure lots of stuff to talk about now. Loads nothing written down so he's going to say this goes day. I think the thing like my mother-in-law's has been with us for the first week infringe. She's going home now so you're gonna find out just how much i get done looking after the kids needs and doing this show which is what my life is going to be from now on. We'll find out where the pump cost and looking at the children's hard and do podcast and the standup show. I think you'll find wind so i guess today is probably best known for being the second unit director on bolsa woods. That's why that's why showy selling currently at the end of print. We appeased gentlemen. It can sit down with the pun. I i wanted to do in solidarity because he's still wearing zip up. I'm where it's been nearly as sort of jacket yeah. I'm wearing a jacket as you know because i've just i was commonwealth pool soft place. I recommend that as well with my kid you have to go to all these things we have kids trouble. I kind of underestimated and how far away that was from here and walked him. It's quite humid very moist underneath here is it's not a pleasant thing to look out of sight. Put kept my top phone. How are you. I'm well good amazingly for the french fries. I've been doing little shots at baraka echinacea yeah. That's amends staying away from people yeah. That's what my children disease ridden and it's disgusting and so do you remember much about being the second unit director of boss would which is quite claims on your page you yes. I was the second unit director balsa wood which is a pill product and that was a funder of it was a film that my friend was making and she asked me to be a second eighty and she was asked me to drive because they didn't have a lot of people to drive but i had just learned to drive and it was not. It's a good idea to get to me too but she was not aware of this dude. That's the dangerous thing i i didn't actually kill any of the costs which there's a big plus the may but we were driving through like a very u._p. Kit compared fights. Remember exactly where we were but i remember there were a lot flags and so i was trying to drive simultaneously detainees legal as low in the sleep so you're shows going very well. It's your first show that you already hit the french now. Now i mean he must be. You're on my podcast must be going on. That's why i'm saying. I'm very much. Your show is called venus. This is venus about the planet venus. It is not it is not about the planet venus. It is not about shaving or tennis. Ah look people think it is a very bad review and i was like oh venus guy's probably wondering what is it about. This woman is about adopt classical mythology. I'm so sorry it's abou it's about of black women in a way which sounds sounds very very heavy but is quite fun yeah. We'll look if we can get tickets. Selling selling out dexter shows since not yet no not that i'm aware of that that will come so yeah. Let's talk to you is are you your family from ghana you would do you yes so my dad's from ghana my mom's from cameroon i had lived in ghana for two years when i was like four to six and my parents that i was is going on holiday. Okay left me and go as they abducted me so yeah. I've got like a strong connection for guard tamarine but it's generally west and it was interesting. You grow up as quite quite religious. Family in various ways was capitals catholic catholic. I had my first holy communion but not confirmed much attending on facebook for jesus. Ah yeah family are very. I've got lots of different. Christian sets of like seventh day adventists new but basically what am i is essentially essentially in a cul yeah very religious christian family and so. When did you lose when you had your child on. How old were you when you lost your religious. I think misplaced unlike don't really don't really care if there is a gold in the different agnostic i think i was i was like yeah. This makes sense. This makes sense. This makes sense believe in god. I'm really cool with it but then i think there was just a point where i was like. It's not really it's not really checking out. You don't get the responses quickey quickly do the practice is true so yeah. I reckon if there is a god. The response response would hate the most is not caring that that's going to hurt him. I mean hating god not believing in god but just not care about what if he's there you'll get in the worst punishment by god. I'd have a special place for people who didn't care about me the edinburgh i probably could well we. I often wonder what my life is already been consigned to wonderful wonderful time to oxford university i did. I'm sorry i went to budget university did he. Did i'm sorry about it. I'm delighted to go lovely three as well danica. I've got three about three hundred in a year and i got three a's for so long ago. I got how how old i was to get. Oh none bad luck thanks to c. Level will remember that properly. What'd you get for your g._p._s.'s a go this. It is easy to shop. This is the first term university is over and over again so i i think i got all as a nice dogs. Aw all right i'll be right and they've got an article for child magazine my patriot newspaper in child well then you broke four one of only twenty four students in two thousand and eight who identified as black african yes so it's pretty impressive to you get to oxford university as a black person. I have to say john kit just for the criterion for the just for the prejudice prejudicial ooh well it was. It was weird when i was there. I made a documentary because that's what you do when you're an undergraduate and it was cool. The kids are away about the title it was because at the time like there was a lot of expectation. Maybe we'll all your auditing this looming english all my relatives way you studying english when you speak. I didn't know i also studied modern languages. Ah rich i mean french because it was cool modern languages but it was the french i speak french and they want a lot of a a lot of black is black and speaking french no did you did you find it because i was just comprehensive school. I found acquainted intimidating and prejudicial towards me just from somerset but you do get very tan. I think it was i had had i did actually have i. I do apologize. I did have an amazing time there because of the amount of stuff get when you're there like there's people that are really like into what they're doing really super intelligent intelligent but there was. I got involved with a bad crowd. When i was in oxford go into improv that was so much fun but it was it was quite interesting. When you improvise you can be whatever you want to be. You could be lisa's different characters and i know that it was there was some kind of ethnicities and accents cents which are very funny and okay to do german or french but you can really be like an online indian all at west african so it was like but it was also not as funny when i did it so i think there was a certain unease people like oh god yeah. Yeah that's well. That's interesting but it was that. Was everyone trying to be your friend there as well whatever it was that that doc was that element of students trying to have the black votes. I was getting up all the time. I think i'm able to combat friend and they come very who which promised i'm not i think yeah i think there was no cash attic. People expect you to come from if you let people from like a private school or independent school or who were black people expected that they had like swat the narrative of like adversity and i think a lot of the people some people were amazing much struggle to get there but i think a lot of people read good opportunities even if they manage to happens come from komo grieve so i was like i pretended like my appendix was established for a bit agreed very lucky yeah well. You did a great little you'd call it little pace for the bbc about privilege and privilege and scope berlet. It's fun but it it sort of. I've always found that what you say is basically the often privileges uses a stick to beat people with the other direction but we're pretty much anyone who's got access to a laptop computers watching the internet for example who on us on twitter commenting giggled something is already in a fairly privilege. I think pretty much everyone listening to this podcast back in some kind of privilege yeah. I think i think people kind of i think i think people are kind of sometimes have their thing like say like working class with their black queer and they're like i'm beyond reproach is like no one can criticize me. I've had a hard life and obviously people have had lies but it's like rats. Someone like in every single instance hat buyer is everything and those people they usually the ones that operating humble going out there doing the work so i think everyone just needs to be kind to each other and kind of get over themselves a little bit instead of competing the way it's me well you talk about taking a lot of boxes bisexual. Yes thank you the parents. Were you raised in family family. What's my triple threat is that i've been told that this is actually a minority of a woman. Thank you eh a woman. There are slightly more women than men is fifty one big brexit brexit breakdown. I'm bisexual pan sexual which i don't see as much because nobody knows what it means to be all this stuff's coming to the problem on sexual fun and and i'm black sorry. I wish we got that one another this rabbit. I'm blessed so people very excited. People think it's a trendy to to be this this hideous triple threat yeah yeah like a lot of it is hard hard but a lot of quite fun. You get to make people comfortable. I can tell they're white people in the audience because of the glow and you would love my it took a turn things around on wiping in the audience talking about making the representative presentative of the individuals and representative of the culture. Yes i have like <hes>. There are lots of i mean there's always at least one white man that comes to my show and i start doc white man. I'm bassett to speak on behalf of the whole organs which is fun. What's most fun. Is that always was the it's always been. I think obviously it's ridiculous. Label demographic anything but there's a i asked white men at one part in the show spoilers about what the boasts sexual social media is your sexual and social media tool sexual sex on social media section touching anywhere anymore. I'm fifty two years two kids under four okay. I mean you would you'd be surprised is the amount of men in your position who essential social media if you're not sliding in anyone's d._m._z. but i don't know which of the good places to go places like instagram people get flirty sexy messages tinder but in my previous i asked stroll string right matt white men what may sexual and social media was and all of them said lincoln the problem. No it's interesting morning. I've been faithful to my wife time together. But is there any visits visit to the fidelity of no one's from the fuck you there is a lot of opportunities can be this if anyone else other than rye out there i i haven't had i haven't had a single income colin. These snow join it. This is coming here in the front. That's that's just how he's faced. Goes becomes it was a lot so why don't we just like having a terrible time or is that what we saw on the isn't that goes to israel. I did not think yeah. I think he is a talkative goes. Have you ever seen a ghost is one of my questions. Oh i have never seen a ghost you sort of answer. It's never left so by the idea of guys imagine paulsen tahsin supper. I couldn't verify that i've seen a ghost okay because they felt a presence that you couldn't understand explain yes yes but then it turned out to be wind. I i so i kind of i just thought i didn't believe in god and everyone was cool and i'm going to leave it. Magic occur feel like oh no awake camping recently to get away. I'm from it all because i y camping and i was in the woods and i felt like there was a sort of like old mother willow figure old with a really expensive tool discarded end at thank you for calling me lord of the thanks anyway so like i just felt like the trees around us was of like protecting us and i had to like so of acknowledged the trees so i did like a weed lead ritual a made up in my head and walking around the ten and so it was like why am i telling people this okay yeah. That's fine. It's not it's not nice as only -tective trees. I want to be going a bit surprised. Web surprised you haven't seen the ghost seeing this stuff they got to. I wasn't so lonely came into london. Depress double cross clapping combine. I hugged trade just to fill another living thing against amazing situation that stretch scratch. I didn't go any further than respected streams made which consented even in in nineteen. I like hugging trees especially when you're on a run because they're very grounded and he failed connected to the i have a question. Do you know what ghosting is this ghosting yeah. That's because you're not very sexual. I used to be predatory. Sexual tax return calls or bring them yet. Yes i mean that is what it would be translated into the it. When you make cameo in someone's life and then he saw phase i into the background yeah. Have you done to believe in that. It is yeah <hes> yes. I have guys do people. I'm hyping today's people there's edinburgh fringe but it's very it is horrible with the hemisphere doug notice when you do two other times the easiest way you just feel it in a conversation with someone and you say distract the flow so this is about to happen to me just looking back she's gone. I got another cat so i'll be fun. What else another another emergency questions as well <hes> you can start this because i'm not sure say you always remember invents this question if you had to be in the human centipede. I'm you're in the middle. You get to choose when people go the in front of you behind. Ask me to explain the team. I'm very familiar. Policies sees i think at the back end i don't really taxes on nice position any reveal the fun and and i think it'd be dots pick a specific person you can you can you can answer how you wish i'd like to visit. You've got visser juicer abrasive. Very chinese says i want them to be okay. Talk commend good vegans sarah. It's not quite weird to me so i. I think she'd try and get us through. I think she'd have music. I have up front just going to raise morale. Ciampi really chipper made the best. The khartoum not soviet ideal. Somebody's probably more worse right. Word wouldn't is the idea of teaming with different centipedes mm speeds opinion or you can be human and then you could have sex with another human. Another one passed by the thanks to ooh. I think i think groups that sounds like a lot of admin via. I mean if you let horrible. Sexual will combine that is a haven set debate. I can't imagine the sexual encounter the beep that's fun but i think sex and more than two other people to uh came this only call him. He's a hot in here. From the komo wall pool opioids canadian foursome. Yes you split into two teams can do that. They look very manageable. So you just have to take a threesome. I guess it's exciting lots of what's it like diamond dancing well at one person front and he will follow deby's but any more than that i think would get would be horrible. It'd be like yeah it'll be horrible and get financing on the force the fourth day of editor for me and i don't believe already to this. I'm just trying to scare remove breath like the name. I didn't know much about this. Night's golden michael wacky racist. Yes rocking racist because the name <hes> should says displaying retinal actually for actual working zany bigots. It's not a nightmare that is sort of like platforms comedians of collar. Generally me is like trying to prove representation and we have a one man white man house band. They play problematic teams that called the deaths. Every play gave gave like a pinball tail on the honky. If you ever wanna come fly with longman london is a previous previous guests on the show. She says a big unrepeatable. Yes uh-huh yeah. It was good. She's very good. She's having a great at umbrella. How should i school to catch dick and that was basically what she discussed. The voice talk about comedy right. She's aladdin's yeah. She's a pint recommended okay. I'll go to ask a few more questions and then we're going to see how we go and then they'll be time some more time for me to go stand well. I interesting. Have you ever floated the bird or the i want aid is because of a mary poppins. The end of the phone wasn't fun win. I think trust do announced he and it was very unsolved running trailing fabric it was a difficult to get acting. My massive would get up. I mean you fifty. It's not about experience runs the crisis future. I wonder what what happened next. Flying things forbid dream. You put a camera pretty super okay. I'm asking this question. Would you rather have attained dispenses. Talcum powder take take take saria yeah mammary gland nipple or finger that can talk through time so limited talcum powder of your breast rest just any time and just just unlimited unlimited like in consent or but you'd have to spend just every time you turn the ball you'd be able to a finger that can trump every time which is just thinking go anywhere in time past few chill cutting but you can still control it. I said we'll go to the president. That's zyppah in the congo is the press but that's that's the bortex and then he could do something on the knuckle. Date can pay through the mimas not necessarily and piquancy when you do otherwise that's the choice and if you choose the million indika ah yes finger to get involved in lots of historical ogies very small. My thing is now yeah. That would be nice. That would be nice. Oh no good hygiene than no offense rene since people listening in anything that are going to go in the and then we're gonna walk. Log question came out my podcast roseman. Just check is no okay. No i'm still interesting. Richard came up with a good emergency question. What is the most boys the most important thing that human plugs to charge your phone <hes> i think trying to convince anything radical electric toothbrush shaw other people's phones all the time. I think he's it's a waste of moment of fear when you're cleared a lot m._i._t.'s which is quite smooth is quite big but there were a lot of luckily no idea what they do and you know that people doing shows go on for months and months and months and months inventors reading the lights don't clout during that show but you've got like ninety percent battery see just i mean you take john sometimes like if you're in a rented houses you probably flat now that does and what it does for fun yeah the ones on public transport that say not for public case what you can say. I will be used for mobile phones or computers. I reckon the good stuff in there. I want to bring something and bring it printed with the french who could little pop up. First class are the set. They <hes> foodstore with an extra animal a lot so i think it'd be good to grow yeah. That'd be nice. So what have you seen any shows. You'd like to recommend yes ask i have oh what i okay so this is showing previews but it's amazing. It's cool butch princessa and it's by a sort of amazing venezuelan a clown. Go okay so that's a good description but it's clowns address space though and it's amazing book it's fun. Jumpy cohen love that do the twist is. She's gorgeous. Which is a good title or anything like that other than that. Let's see i'm a big on. Can i plug something. That isn't a really big fan of tintin caravan. Oh my god it's so good. I've been mentioning it all the time in case they have some blackhawks sean racing. I just it's like happiness. In a box is the best thing that i do every good good explanation conditional definitely gonna go for that one. Tell us when you show is gonna tour. This showed up. Yes yes you on a tour. I'm gonna tour yeah. It's definitely going to be other places where is cool yards in below seven p._m. Every day at school venus which rhymes with penis just how along i remember and puka that's not blood you can fuck. Yes ah okay. Let's pause doc boy cracked on. I say are you gonna program. Take it from me to you as you want to do my programs after the show making collection for scope which deals with trying to equal rights and access espe disabled people among other things charting if you'd like to donate some money after the show i will be sitting at a table and the entrance to the selling <hes> let's see questions books and some wonderful stickers you can also get the the older mercy questions book if you prefer both the stickers and i'm. I'm very happy to sign stuff photos. If you want to do that we buckets there. If you would like to make a donation to scope as well a credit card machine so i can take cards. I believe <hes> great granddaughter at the end of his chat shows he. He sells these books from a table in the doorway. He's going to be i believe is the case. That's just a normal thing to happen happen so my next guest is probably best known for her appearance on britain's favourite crisps. I'm not sure he's been on yet these twenty nine hundred eight. We'll you pretty amazing. Vicky stoned now how you doing good. I'm actually even onto stage with somebody saying it's it's from vicky same. I'm from britain's favourite chris without like dust one of my idols. I'm talking to you down because you are also in britain's favourite chocolate bars as well. When you actually britain sprayed sweet sweet i was also on britain's favor cleaning products but that's has yet to be broadcast. We can all look forward to that. Can you give us any which might be the favorite and i think it's bleach. What was what was britain's. Favourite chris britain's favourite crisp. I don't remember i do remember britain's favorite cereal. That's not come out yet either and that was a credit score. The crunchy nut conflict with us go to be t._v. Show to work that out chris so you have done some other stuff as well. We'll get onto your this fit. This is the first time you end up in the number. Five years full run what i did and i did a big show big one off show in two thousand seventeen with an orchestra for one day which was marvelous. Authority recommended performer coming into one leading. This is my first run in five years. Wow what brought you back. I i just i fancied it and that's gone now about failing show called and it's called song it just a title that came up with in february best of the show until so for that reason i decided to walk onto the bird a d sound so then the titles justified isn't it stunned by the tweets by the way that is that comes up on trivia quizzes yeah so just by the tweets so which number two yeah what was number one the <hes> i ever remember the number one day how bob wells cathedral school which is near to where i grew up in dayton sister works. Who's gonna miss lebanon. I i don't i'm sorry no at wells. Cathedral school is a specialist music school and imparts so i went to play the flute flute. Yes as a child can play a lot of instruments. I wasn't aware that the flute was an expert the flute yeah i wasted my childhood playing. Can you still pick up yeah. I've played what i tend to do. Now is i. I play the flute for a laugh pantomine so i tend to put it in the middle of a song a body in punt so i just decided to put ridiculous flute solo in the middle of a punt. It's something i feel will people know wasting time miming as well do that but i insist on miming the flu it depends on my good good thing to do and you. We're also very good at rounders. I yes actually am not come from wikipedia one question god no. I've got made a fine. I made a few friends constantly update people's wikipedia some really good friends with helen george who is one of the call the midwife cast and i put on her wikipedia that she used to be a lower leg model and was featured as houston model flight socks in innovations magazine which it's all well and good until philip scofield aster about on this morning and so so it's saying i'm some around i'm to stay brown. Stop yeah. It was suspicious about the brown stock yeah fall into the trap. Yeah yes at that's that's <hes> that's me and my mates also managed to bring up again. When helen was on should begin to beat by chris evans on on bbc radio two and some weird porno kapiti kapadia that she was a semi professional long jumper and he'd oster about that so we don't have people that ruin each has kapiti pages. So have you done a tedtalk concern. I have took. It sounds like a guy that could be made now. I did i when i did my talk about brian cox. All the science was correct enough to the people that genuinely for about three days later got phone call from someone who turn saying they always have to arts before arts talks and it was me and imaging heap and so we went and did a tedtalk turn and they built the stage on top of the large hadron collider are in france yeah. It was really cool. It was out there for a week and i found myself in a nightclub singing. One of heap songs interface go inside the large hadron collider when you there yeah yes. There's just they just let you into the control related to press. Anything is great unusual facts about you. How many of these true taller than that doesn't mean that it's necessarily true you backing singer for elton john yes. That was my first job. Yeah yeah i went to the board academy of music and elton. John was doing an orchestral tour and he likes to. He tends to use recent graduates for jobs like that and yeah. There's is a load of us that went on tour wembley. Nec in the album whole pro first job hanging out with elton backstage and little bit there was a there was awesome situation at wembley where he came out and thanked everybody and i could see him coming on had my question ready and i wanted to ask question may be made him remember me or something and he had this is a dog with a with a all access pass on and say aaa aaa dog and and so i decided taught him via questions the dog so i said to elton john lewis owen does your dog travel well and he said yes thanked only how to shit on the plane won't any moves onto the next person and the next person's my friend adam and he asks if elton john he is out and john if he could possibly have a goal on his piano elton call someone over and goes. This guy's doing the sound check tomorrow. I was like i asked the wrong fucking. I asked a question about dog shit. Am am i may is playing the soundcheck at wembley all right. Here's another one you've done to theatrical private theater performances fangio and webber in his this private theater yes underdogs houses called sygmunt court and he had the village church moved into his garden gordon and turned into a theater the vicar feel about roy nice theater but it's a strange thing to do. Physically quickly move physically moved so he's he's going on. What was a village church grounds as now a theater and try out shows there. It's a good thing money money. Must that must be nice nice. You play tat a non sex role agape ville. Yes i did have a non sex. Throw a gay porn film. Yes other sex roles of the gave one yet. So this is a long time ago about nineteen and i wasn't isn't shown any of the script i was just i was just told that i was playing the girlfriend of a guy and that was it and we were in the scene shot in a gay club and my lines were <hes>. You been timing the toilet your pints getting warm now. I didn't the alarm bell should have run because the film is called. What goes around comes around spell. See you a mess. I should've maybe been nice but that was. I was down on a non sex day and they said oh dino <hes> they said so. I didn't actually see out of aww allow but that's what they call it. They call it non sex day and so what the i didn't see is that they shoot shots of me. Walk into nightclub with my boyfriend. He then goes to the toilets and then pornography happens. I'm looking around going. Where is he holding his pint and then he comes back and i say you've been along time in the toilet. She points guessing warm and at the end for the credits rolling they sit on a stool and you have to wink named goes past and they said to meet you want to use a pseudonym him and now i have not done anything i'm ashamed of so unfortunately i'm now on the porn version of wikipedia and i have a page vikki stone porn star so so the biggest good and you've played free in four lab attributed sleep and it's yeah i mean this is old sceviour so it's not been updated. I'm the information anywhere else. This is just i don't i i was when i first graduated to try and make money i was i was in ann arbor tribute and the absolute worst one. Something called like i dunno like apple rouge or something i don't know and it was me and i was playing free and the agneta was sixty nineteen. The bjorn was i don't know about eighteen and the benny was the husband and he was sixty five and we were referred to the top turn and we played doll centre happy valley good days so you've done it in every level of this gay porn films. I'm about an. I've had a lot of fun tom watching your videos last night and this morning which i recommend that was fun but it was it was eliminated the he's always the problem with the economy company describe what goes on but i would say i really enjoyed wait unsolicited picture unsolicited pitches fantastic yet so thank the finnish go fill some very well known for thank you for that in a at a slightly less raucous man on this date until the full and what i loved about that is an idea that show my very first and i did my first twenty eleven and i a <music> a particularly vitriolic view saying that might by shows swearing in it and women should talk like that and and at the end of the review it said this kind of material will never get her onto this morning sofer and six weeks later this morning rang me up and they put me to perform the phillips gopher absolve live on this morning and i just sent review an email and the title of the email was this kind of material. We'll never get onto this morning. So far and the only thing in the email was the link to the website of me <music> singing the song of the fuck great reviews short-haul yeah but it's <hes> it's been compared to victoria wood which i suppose all old old thinking women who could play a panel gonna get combat but it i mean this is a nice compliment. I think to get the summers breath. A good victory is is is i wouldn't be doing what i did wasn't blazing than trial. We've we met a few times and i did a play for his talent which was revived and she came three times to watch that and we've chatted about the plans of i was playing. I heard wrong. The first person pays her her side. The candidate the role that she broke his up and then views later haven't seen in a few years later. I was thinking of kings place on the piano look out into the audience and she was that and and i hadn't been nobody winston famous comes requested ticket voyeur publicist or something where you're agent and she just bought two it was just in the audience and and suddenly i was i could have vomited on my feet. I you know i was thinking the brian cox time which is awesome facet of possibly as close as material gets to something like let's do it. Which is all the kind of fox guest so joe was the key changes that kind of stuff and yet at a vitrine vitry ready forms are waiting to hear back yeah. Let's do that. I wouldn't mind you not saying you delight itchy glad she died. 'cause you that spain because i want to put words in your mouth victory. They'd be in the headline from this focus added for comic delight. What about the drinks. Cabinet is also very well. That's nice a drinks cabinet and some very nice facial comedy. You really dumb. Office is rarely just so annoying where people use talent plummeting let it gets fag panam coming up comedy. That's all right. Let's sub-unit which i wondered if he'd have about putting into a song because you're hugo p._g. D. i p. r. I am a r._a._m. Yep that'd be poked didn't ramnarine around my room which is as like a solar. Does alaska addict only at the kennedy music in the meantime doulos not my type. The dow very didn't even have a degree renders as well as the he will react as captain is going to that's why they keep taking the time i keep deleting russell canes and angel with the autism keeps changing. It changed back every day some some muscle that job. Let me ask you some questions. Russell is twenty five years probably yeah so he's mainly seem inadequate job. As a as a dainty here is this is this is a good idea for thanks good to take the head of the state see right but what was the world. What was your most disastrous. Thanks i've had several aban five years ago. What comes doing thought it the roenick fucking ridiculous reasons yes okay so ashes movement takamatsu search last time fifteen times. I've i've got another question for you. Oh this is this comes up with this one. If you can have a sexual superpower what would it be sexual superjet something that's like assumed path in the section arena kinda sweet baby sexual i did. I think that it might be a really good cheap. Power that if you look someone in the eye then media shit a._m. Centers it would be central kind of sexually. It's also proper superpower. Look at you bam you. She fear because then you got to go win. Rate goodness is seen in strength. Things is a big lead accidents so based but she makes the magic girl daughter rnc. I'm trying to think through the gravity doesn't tell me anymore strange calicoes and then the guy we ornate. I mean seriously we could do that. You can rule the world wavings is up. One hundred percent especially not solids now. He's gonna have you ever seen the ghost yeah yeah i used to move in houston the old old house an old flat in the docklands and there there was definitely a ghost that remember what kind of it was in the the some. Do you know the way to san jose which is play out of nowhere. Yeah i think he was before cd plans that number four on the year so i decided that we had a ghost that relied on the way to san jose or a blow broken consi deeply over one of the two yeah. I think he's a young man. That's good see i was right because that sort of nagas i would have said you haven't seen but this basically many people seeing ghosts happens goes not. That's why i'm sure i'm sure which which side of that device you can keep us again. I do enjoy the work of derek cohen shit while he's the my slapstick thing that's ever happened to you in real life i i wrote this question when i just let you my cat knocked over the box of the floor i stood won't move firms that another one then i knelt down through another. We'll have slapstick well. This is kind of a slow burn slapstick thing but a few weeks ago and it was thirty seven degrees when it was upset fucking boiling. I was doing a preview and i was wearing a new pink bra on white t shirts. Finally you can see the pink br break through this obstructive of detaining in the outfit but gradually throughout the geic. The broncos knew it would die was coming off. I didn't know this until i got off state but my tits we're getting pink and pink throughout the show and i was getting laughs and ruining win and i was thinking why show is good food. They are up nailing. This and i have absolutely no idea and would just run to me laughing and laughing together look each other and i had no idea let's go to art global hyper color of yet or yet the impressive for people who don't like the what you do on saying oh yeah. I got to look at something very very nice. So is the auto show where he played twenty instruments yeah instrumental could which is your big the most successful i was saying i mean i just decided to do a different different. Show i borrow instruments. People are told stories of how the average miss and how they bought at the myra say use it to underscore the show with a loop pedal so the scoring wisconsin and i just wanted to make bit busy. We're halfway between san yes. It's hard hard work there yeah and but in a fringe situation when you go fifteen minutes to change over it was a nightmare this year. I'm not doing that piano no no and a couple of numbers which boost play worse that the qodian on really bounce visit postal. I think it sounds pretty shitty. Even if you great yeah so yeah really crap accordion as well so everything's against me during the show was touring from the thirteenth of september the twenty sixth of ten we even edinburgh pluses cohen seven p._m. And the more more to become britain's great wanting cleaning products and the britain's greatest cleaning products and the britain's greatest cereal. They haven't announced when they're going to show them. Let's which could actually mean that never going to shave them. I mean i really i'm going to watch britain's greatest cleveland. Accomplish company are four thirty four in the series the cleveland products now. There's chocolate chocolate takeaways. That haven't been in all of them now to doc. Look at the person makes you know the channel these oversee gentle vibrations. I am now done thirty of those like fifty greatest right his twenty in my own fifty greatest. Let's let's make that happen. Yeah i really want to after some really fucking shitty it really but he got it fifty fifty because then i'm going to put them in an order but it's fifty fifty he wants to that. One is admitted cleaning. We still have some time. I'm going to do and i'm going to find another question and that will bring this mainly home. You're not gonna believe how good this one is okay. This is the one uh home. What is my selfish thing you've ever prayed for. So what do you think of yourself. Sentence request prayed for a urine interspersed. I'm not religious. We we ever ever been in a situation where you're about dying to get through this. I will be on stage stunned up. Ah it's been it's been a cake four stock doosan and then also thirty six people are thrown out there like my brother been answered. Yeah i mean i went to wells cathedral school so i i ended up. I like ahead all good sing. God person but i will will do the discounts to all carol. That's where i am with religion the other day when i have this well this bug. I've still got mm sips gandhi. There was a lot of my back. They were all shooting around my back and i couldn't find one and i said god i said god if you can just make sure there's olympic year you get above uneven. Mike did find a limps. I didn't believe in drink. I drink god but spits fit. I think i may have once asked asked god for help. Finding a parking space in soho saas notoriously hard did find more yeah so that i and my friend was in the within the exact same thing ngos religious breakthrough so the evidence we need to say the same religious friend i was a little bit depressed and i i just pasta house of a sticker in the window said if you ask god who rewards that accompany got a net about five dish that religious right around me to come to a cattle okay and did you discount that went to the folks. It was one of those really weird al for course churches where the west you feel like you're about to be abducted. This is religion. I possibly thank you thank god for making me sick that it's been lovely. Uh all shows these testing guests slamming on a this show when it's full price please one occasion or this money. Go all the way back tomorrow <music> somebody else because well like we got saddam hussein in the week next week a told me ten minutes. Let's be good dot com slash slash toop and you can find out about forthcoming enjoying this hints news and do come see the other guest. I'll be out in the doorway my granddaughter i'll see us. Thank you very much in you. I've been asleep to us by the end of the fringe would mean richard she pairing. Thank you to pass for providing music. Thank you devastated. Newtown understand everyone. Go strike dot com producer is jason kingly this sky potato fuss at the start dot com production padang take dot com slash pigs.

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Top 5 under-appreciated female authors

List Envy

1:10:53 hr | 1 year ago

Top 5 under-appreciated female authors

"I'm a little bit nervous because I think a bit of a wee bit more than I could chew with this. Hello there and welcome to extend. My name is Mark Steyn and it is a pleasure to be in. You is once again if you're new to the show within hello List Envy Dot com has lots of other episodes with lots of other interesting Lists of all strikes. This is a two this is one and a two parter really all about women in literature. My guest this week is ceremony Tucson. Who's the writer and Lebron's winning podcast? She picked up the bronze in the sex and relationship Category in the twenty nine thousand nine podcast was I was I was there and it was very very pleased that she she picked We met in London last year. At a PODCAST is made up and we We got on famously and so always delighted that Osama wanted to come on on the podcast and this so if you're unfamiliar with the show. Every week I sit down with the guest and together we collaborate on a top five list. the The topic being chosen by the guest and so this week's topic is his underappreciated female authors and if you are unfamiliar with the Work of Georgia hair for two reasons you're GONNA GONNA get very familiar. One reason is probably possibly self evident that we're gonNA talk about In a bit but also that is the focus of ceremonies. Second can season of her. Fable Gazers podcast. She's talking all about the life and work shorthand. She's got some quite amazing guests actually will talk about that a little bit later. I'll catch up with you in a bit. Ah for now. Let's get straight on with my chat with ceremony which began with me asking her. Why exactly she wanted to pick this list? I'm working for about four years on a on a podcast series going in depth into the life and work version hair. WHO's a female rights of him? I feel is severely really underappreciated. And so I just thought it would be nice to have a few other women who've are similarly underappreciated and kind of highlight you know these he's wonderful rises and see you know. Get people feeding them. You know more what is your metric for appreciated slash slash unappreciated while that is very question. Thanks thanks for that mark against it's you know it when you see kind of thing With with regard to hair she was a massive bestseller in her day and she actually was best regarded in the early give. You Know Thirties forties fifties. You know sort of on a palm On a on a par with her contemporaries like Somerset Maugham and you know people people like that and now it feels it feels like she's you know I think people mix her up with her copied copycats. The cats like Barbara Cartland and when they think of anything of like bodice ripper you know because she was the Queen of Regency Romance but when you think regency the riots now a lot of times I love times people very snobby about romance in general which I think is great And and second of all. She's been todd same. Brush as a lot of people that are five are fine fear to her and in actual facts. I think she's much closer institute. Her idol's like Jane austen and Dick even shades of Dickens. And things like that but I think she's much will fossil so I'd like can hurt to people like PG would houses. Well if you had like a mash up of those two things Austin and Woodhouse as much closer to what. She's actually like you know she. Her writing is elegant. And it's hilariously funny and Grandma and Texas perfection. So it's not like a really some of the sloppy Kind of People in the genre. I never put her in that in in that kind of category. I'm so I think what do you say metrics. It's it's tricky because I think the women on the list are there are connections which is kind of found as slight conditions often. They've also been compared to Johnson as a certainly poses. You could compare a few rights but I find them you know. They're they're different so it's kind of hard to yeah. I think it's people like you know some of the main Phoolan out of favor for some reason. They're writing became viewed as sort of Pasta. A A quaint or things like that as sometimes I wonder if those same rights as would have had the same reaction. Oh been kind of overlooked. If they had been men Dan. You know it's it's it's a difficult one to say so in terms of metrics. It's tricky because I'm kind of like well. A lot of them sold really. Well you know and and yet you don't see them being compared to similar people of who male writers so I don't I don't know I can't give you an exact I feel bad. I should create knows that there's no there's no wrong answer at all and it certainly wouldn't be wouldn't be. It's sort of a math mathematical when I was just interested in your criteria and you're thinking with it really So yeah I'd like the this the that certainly no wrong answer. I'm kind of I'm. I'm a bit ashamed of how difficult I've found this list put together because I can talk about fame royds. I've enjoyed but like I'm annum. Might run into this with with a couple of names. The listener might be. I think back like quite well appreciated. And that's Kinda that's kind of the problem because uh-huh yeah I'm I'm not delving. Deep enough can probably talk about under REP or under appreciated male writers because I seem to know more of stuff and that's a that's that's that's missing out All right well would i. What would I be right in thinking that she is perhaps your number one pick? You're absolutely right. Yes and that's I feel like I'm cheating a bit. Because she's the one I've been like forensically examining the possible. He is and trying to put together this epic twenty five episode series. You know. That's audio drama Stephen Fry. Hi It's Joanne. Harris is soaring plugging again. Go to stop that. I think that's infusing. I think that's absolutely valid. And you you know and very fond of her works and I've been reading them with a critical eye which has been so wonderful. It's been such fun. I can't tell you just discussing you know I've I've been trying to convert people who've never read her which isn't always successful but I'm not I'm not tip then what what would be a good starter. What what would you recommend that we start with? Well I did compile in anticipation shortlist like things to start with I mean she did have a few that aunt as good because I mean the woman wrote fifty six novels You know and so there's loads it's But I would start with Arabella There's also the Grand Sophie Sylvester Kaleen Venetia the nuns Go on I could go on but on my a website. There's a list of a novel that we'll be covering they're actually not my list of my favorites. It's there in Cornell chronologically could give you you know. We could also give insights into life at the time she was writing. So I've tried to give like a cross section and also I wanted to do some of the ones that might not have been as amazing you know so that it. It was a fair kind of examination but some yeah. Those are the ones I would start with. I'm I suspect my list is going to be very very different from your on a number number three for a number of reasons So my first of a couple. That aren't I don't know if she ever wrote books. Actually actually she may have written one But it's Victoria would the comedian. Yes yes because she's known as absurd as a contractor and Also a musician. She was a phenomenal pianist. really really really talented And I think as a writer possibly overlooked because she was very unselfish In shows like dinner ladies which is a lot of the stuff is kind of quite quite gentle In in many respects quite warm inclusive but with a lot of the work that she did that especially she was very unselfish and giving the funny lines to other people She was kind of the straight man to agree In in that show She was not a particularly rippled character. And then so she gave all the funny lines to everyone else to have a funny friends And she you know she she. She knocked around with a with with an amazing cadre of of people to in the eighties and early nineties Judy Walters and Celia Imrie and and all these fantastic actors But she herself. `Self wrote some lovely drama as well. she did a a thing with Julie Walters where she They did a sort of surprise surprise show and she it was An estranged sister and it was. It was That was pathos and and and a bit of humor but it was a very sort of interesting in class study and then she had the sketches and she had They acorn antiques Musical and she wrote these amazing songs And I think as a performer. We get an and As a standup as well. We understand Victoria Wood as just as a as a comedy writer of it that the pure Jio craft of writing she was quite a shy person so I think that's probably really where she shown and so that's why she's my number one. Wow I mean I think we can have real trouble deciding deciding on our final list because I I just you know anticipate a really tricky but yeah she I mean obviously. She's a legend so I I wasn't even I must say I wasn't even thinking about other kinds of rights but I guess I should have as well so that's my number one. What's number two number two? I should say so am I number two is Elizabeth on on him. Who is someone who I read quite a long time ago? I was just so impressed with the Elegance of her work and the insights that she could she like another writer on on. My List was quite famous for issue. No she hung out with a lot of Literary Literary Literati Cousin was Katherine Mansfield. Mansfield a children to by Ian Foster who Hugh Walpole she was you know. She had numerous lovers including H G wells and things things like that and all of these people appeared in her work So you know I think that she she. She manages to to create eight. These very vivid last. Choose like a proto feminist. You know if you if you look at the pastas wife. One of her books. You know you become so so enraged with how this woman is treated because essentially it's about a young British woman who sort of is kind of swept up by SERMON PASTA GUY and is gets into this marriage and the whole journey of the novel is a woman trying to try to be whatever ever she thinks he wants her to be. Just be trying to be a good wife and a good you know Pasta's wife and she just ultimately realized she can never she could never live up tastes expectations because they're shifting and Part of a paradigm that. She caught quite gross So yeah and and I mean for the for the Times that she was writing sort of late Eighteen hundreds early twentieth century. It's it's just so oh so interesting to kind of get an insight into these. It's this millionaire. Yeah she's famous for Elizabeth under German Garden. which was she was actually writing that because her count husband she married count? I think opponents count he became bankrupt so she had to start writing in order to kind of support. The family and it was. It was such a success that was reprinted twenty twenty times in its first year. Wow so she became yes she became pretty successful. You know not must have been quite an interesting story in and of itself for that time for her to effectively. Be The breadwinner If you're long yeah and also because she seems to have either either married or become involved with the succession of pretty useless man at the you know the writing was her away she was obviously just a real. You know go get it. And she managed to produce these incredible works This interesting link between her and hair that I didn't I didn't know about but gave me a little delicious kind of tickle. She had an affair when she was thirty years his senior with a very very good friend and publisher of Jordan Hare A S. His name was and just like this funny little connections because that's interesting stay Obviously she was quite a bit older than than hair and Anyway I I like things like that. And she's had a few she. She had a book the Toronto Front April which was kind of made into films said various things a made it to stage. Plays and things like that so she's not totally ignored but I just feel that she's not as appreciated as she should be considering the yeah the impact that she that she made with some of a work. Well number two I'm bringing I'm bringing some sort of twenty century side again Because I mean that's well yeah It's Nicole Perlman poelman. Sorry Nicole Poelman and I would be interested to know who already knows this person's name but she I think deserves A shout because of the fact that she has made some phenomenally Code written all written some phenomenally successful films over the last few years and I had no idea and I think I've never done in the circles that I've I've paddled in She's never come up and and So this is Nicole Perelman. Who Co wrote the Guardians of the Galaxy film in Twenty Fourteen She also wrote the story for Captain Marvel which was so. It was Elliot and For Detective Pika. True among Lots of others as well. She's she's been a busy busy passes and I just think guardians was a phenomenally successful film not just box his wise but it was beloved and and I think a lot of these marley things and I'm not I'm I'm bite by no means a a a model nod Or even that much which of a fan but the the fact that it all sort of gets piped through this novel machine and it's kind of factory produced and it's you you know it's the credit is it's marvel like it's made by Marvel Maybe you've heard of poll fig notes Kevin Feige polcy is the other guy I think. Pulls Vigo League is the the bridesmaids guy Kevin Feige is the is is the Marvel guy and and if anyone heard of anyone within the cinematic university tends has to be him whereas the righteous don't really get looking and I think she massively deserved it. So that's what you take. Well I am a big model fan. I have to say Oh cool and do you gotta make this this episode cool I can tell mock well deletes appropriate off your own version of lose. I really like that. You kind of going into something where people aren't as part of the industry kind of the way they run things. They don't acknowledge writers. Whatever yeah? It's really interesting isn't it. It's it's like with them. I forget his name now. Why is my brain working? But you know the guy who was going to direct and men and he Oh Yeah Joe Cornish yes sorry no no no no not him. The Director Guy who he worked with some he worked on hot fries and all of those. Oh right right well we yes of course because Joe was Was Writing yes edgar was the director. Yes I mean. I was quite fascinated with that process of he's such a you would have thought he'd be perfect for the whole model thing and ended up kind of not going on to finish directing to final product. Because I'm guessing using the head creative differences so you do kind of wonder what goes in what it takes to be a writer in that kind of massive machinery and kind of still produce something something that has you know as much charm and energy and freshness as guardians of the galaxy. So I mean fair dues. Yeah I mean it's good that we're giving someone like that shoutout. Yeah I think so. Just you know even if he just makes puts the name on on someone's radar to fit if it's someone to look out for again especially female absolutely and for what is a what you would consider a female heavy film In terms of Sunday tubs Watson His onscreen But yes okay so Number three please cinema three. I might be sailing close close to the wind by cooling her under appreciated. Because okay I mean but then again it's like you're saying someone will turn around for each and every one of these things and be like us and I I know James Very well-known Blah Blah. You should be looking at this person. This person is Mary Stuart's who wrote Moon Spinneys his and Nine coaches waiting She is I mean. I've I've always loved to work. I read moon spinners when I was very young much in the same way that I read quite a few of the shows hairs when I was young. They they kind of their Mitch enmeshed for me with the sense of nostalgia and romance and because you know when you read something that age that makes impression on you it really stays with you and you kind of continue to save that enjoyment whenever you read it in the future and Winston is was like that for me. it's it's just. She conveys often has these kind of romances featuring regular people who put into these dangerous situations relations. And it's not that they're particularly you know major spice skills they know how to do need. Ninja moves or anything like that. It's that they're perfectly normal but when the put under the pressure the exhibit this kind of brave and they kind of low rise to the occasion and the heroines often discover. They don't not much about the heroes in the beginning but then through these dangerous situations here kind of reveals himself to be. You know someone interesting. Worthy of falling in love with and mid span is very good example of how she's able to really create a sense of place they will often be in these wonderful locations. Like treats it's all places in Greece. Greek islands or or things like that and I can feel the sunshine when I read that book. Can you can feel the salty water on my skin and things like that you know she just creates such a vivid sense of Of the place. And you know if you if you need a holiday and you can't afford it in these doc times my say pickup There was a terrible film made of it though I love Hayley mills and she was the lead. It's funny because our limited vaguely 'cause I watched it again. It's a Disney movie. Oddly enough but it's totally crazy. It's rainy. It doesn't stick to the plot of the book and it goes very psychedelic. Must have been you know one of those sixties things where your life. Everybody Bang Bang in east. I I think there was a few people smoking a few things because it just is nuts but some it's a pity because Hayley mills would have been a perfect a Perfectly play one of the heroines She's got the kind of girl next door Chom. But yeah and I mean she also wrote writes some fantasy stuff as well which was really a well regarded as the crystal cave. And it's all about Merlin's upbringing hollow hills else which I don't know if you if you not familiar with her sort of romance or thriller thriller you might you might. Well have come across. So if you're a fantasy fan but again I just feel an also. I don't know how much of these you know. The Women Not Being appreciative because a lot of them painfully shy and very very a private. She shared that with with that quality with hair. She absolutely hated any kind of publicity. And you know she actually cried they would have first book was published and they they put like the next rising star. You know which most people would really love but Yeah so I mean again I feel that and maybe again. It's the romance thing. Maybe it's the thing that romance is definitely classed as genre. That's kind kind of beneath critical. Notice a lot of times. It's often denigrates. Love Women's Rights Right Romance and you know it's often written notices kind of lesser lesser genre. Do you have a you know. Obviously given the word that you've been doing the moment have you sort of come to a a real conclusion as to to why that is I wish I really should have thought of that before this point. 'cause come up with a very concise and interesting but what sort of of sort of spring on these bill. If it's just because it's considered a woman's Sean it's like chick lit these these quite denigrating labels placed on it and it's funny because in her day hair for example and I'm sure Mary Stuart as well and Elizabeth Finan. We're very well read by a huge cross section of the people including men lawyers doctors. You know that kind of thing and it seems like in this age where everything must literature has to be put into a very specific box. You got a chicken you got to the point. Where when you're even right when writing books you have to consider it nowadays you have to break down exactly what Subterano your book is in? What demographic is GonNa this is gonNA appeal to and I don't think they did that quite as much when these women were writing so in a way it was a books were you know? I don't know it's kind of like now. If you're a romance writer then it's very you only appeal to like whatever women between the ages of whatever it is whatever it is And I don't know maybe it's just that maybe it's the kind of snobbery the kind of sexism Omay Be. It's I don't know I. I do think obviously that has looked to a a big role to play. It's like you were saying I was also when I was putting this together struggling a bit and finding the lot more men. Men's names were popping into my head When I was thinking of choices I don't know like have we all have you just been socialized to thinking? Oh it's not quite as good. Tim I want yeah. I wonder about that. Because there's a couple of books that I've I've enjoyed recently. I think would would be considered romance me and I guess I I think of them as dramas and maybe that's my mail way of somehow justifying it to myself I don't no no But they are of It whereas love and relationships and romance are the kind of central themes teams And I think as I'm talking about this now I really do think that there is a delineation. That's probably my all female based on the writer because if I apply the same criteria to And I'm forgetting his name now at McEwen in McEwen and talk about a couple of his books they might be considered in the same way as the book. Something like a he said she said by Aaron Kelly or which which I enjoyed a or got on the train which are sort of on the Mo- dramatic scale but really are about love and relationships and and that's that's kind of what what their focus is but then when in McEwen writes them than they ought definitely dramas they're not revenue. I know somehow they have more grit retold more like density. Somehow you know in our in our brains I I know that I mean I think this is definitely something we have to fight against and certainly with with hair because the whole regency romance thing. That's been so many copycats so many people and the quality is gone. You know is wildly different varies. I mean her work was really based on research. Deep Deep Research by letters from people you know she auctions and we'll ask the descendants of people to give her these lessons and memoir so that she could get the colloquialisms and fashions really right whereas you you know everyone is copied including Barbara. CARTLAND would would just sort of classic stuff out of there without knowing the context or knowing the full meaning of it it would really piss off but I know it's it's it's a you know. It's a real pity that that's the way it is but okay I'm actually going to go for a for Roy of book now from another one. yeah. I'm I'm sort of skip down the list because as as we're talking I'm I'm sort of I'm shaping Mike My list in my head but The one I'm GonNa go four is A spoke about this. This the author recently on An appearance of your own words which is a podcast. I think You might enjoy It's worth worth listen Where people talk talk about Books that they are enjoying Or books that are important to them from from the past all of the Eram from the presence and I talked about a book from my past and I talked about this author. Gene Kemp and G gene was She sort of knocked around the city Seventies Moan- mainly and and Roquefort children and young adults and it's weird. She was a big fixture in my childhood. I read quite a few of her books. And then when I'm going through the list of books none of the names spring out as she wrote a lot so it may be that. There's just some some obscure ones that that further down the list But she wrote a book slightly tablets Term of tile. Tila talk 'til sorry Just Ferret no out as she had a Tamworth pig series which is a quite popular Sort of a milne's Ish Mittens giant and Lady and she wrote for. I don't know I I felt like I talked about this. When the podcast about Nicholas Fiske? I've I felt slightly talked up to in her books And I I thoroughly enjoyed them at the time and was thoroughly engaged by them and In that way when when you're the age she's just you know that was just one of the names didn't know anything about her But went through quite a few of her books and short stories as well and just found them interesting an intricate and character driven. And you you know I I would pour over these usually in audiobook format now it out. Go over them again and again and and they were about characters and relationships that you weren't talking about supernatural things or superheroes. They're all just kids in school or in secondary school during college and just just normal life. stuff that they went through And she she spun out the drama from that and the She was a think mainly writing writing male characters and so She was she she she did very well. I think tapping into to some of the The Act but also the also knew the silliness that sort of smallness of when you're the age everything feels so big but when you get a little bit older you realize how nothing. How did that just didn't matter? She seemed to understand that and communicate that even in the seventy s when she was writing and so yeah gene. Kemp Wow L. so it would you have read that when you were much younger. Yes when I was in my It was definitely. I think I think actually started reading Harry primary-school every school late primary school so it would have been ten eleven and then up to Fourteen fifteen I think maybe And some of we're a little bit above my age bracket A couple of the books But I I thoroughly enjoyed them and and yet like I said a would return to them but it's it is strange that I can't looking at the list are not really knocked the names on clicking with me but I can remember the stories just not the names of the books folks Doug match up with with that happens to me with Hannibal's an because obviously there are so many years and there are some similarities. He's you know clearly so often. Oh non such what happens in that one and then I'll be like oh you know I'll start reading especially but Yes it's you know. It's this this this chapman this lady but I think you know as we as I said earlier when you read books and they make a big impression on you when you're when you're young on it just has such an indelible you know sort of it just reaches into your brain and ever often you'd think of this it's so vodka to visit and it's kind of and I think it's interesting that you say you've felt talked up because I think that's the best thing especially when you're young sometimes you I remember reading of George Eliot I feel like I've read a lot better when I was when I was a kid than I do. Now I've read a lot of trash now And just feel just feeling like some of the meaning was just out of reach yet the more you could kind of get the feeling of the of the meaning meaning and I just felt like that was such a good part of my education into human nature and into things that were grownup grownups. Platov you've knowledge and Had I think it's great to be talked to. I wish I wish that we didn't I feel sometimes a lot of media that's created. The people is very much the other way talking down talking down down very in the in the swap we. Oh absolutely like T- TV just does does that all the time. That's what TV does the best TV. Lets you get lost Rebecca and figure it out and and run to catch up An and but it's it tends to be few and far between yeah a lot of TV is And I think maybe we sort of inherited that now with with with certain books The sort of we've got to put everything on the page so that no one gets lost because if they lost might turn away and we can't have and there's a lot of the sort of political correctness and which is not not a bad thing I mean trying to make the world better and everything but sometimes I feel like this you. You should be allowed to to think things through yourself and sort of lean nuances and things about taxes. That pops floored the you know what I mean like you can't he should. It shouldn't be so prescriptive also a sign posted a lot of the time Yes I like bit more me. Yeah what's your before. So many number four is Barbara Pym. Okay And I was reading a New York Times article on US trying to remind myself of of her work and stuff and they said she's forever being forgotten and forever revived so so she's one of those people who was ready falling in and out of fashion She's she's like Austin she's a you know there celebrities between them because they write about you know. Small lives small moments supposedly small things and she kind of manages to to derive these greater meanings from these things and relationships that they have the churches Vickridge's and academic Cambridge type places. And you've got to have a lot of patients as the New York Times says for endless jumble sales in west drives fearing wisdom of dowager distress gentlewoman. But you know as you could tell from my love of Regency Romance. I've by do we have an endless taste with But she she went. She kind of went into the sixties host of quaint point. The quietness of her Moore kind of fell out of fashion and publishes Published dropped and she even though she had sort of people who really championed her work. Like Doc Lockin and that just reading head. Most underrated writers that is a big invention so is that yeah thank. You could die happy with with that but I guess it didn't really make the bishop pill of being dropped too much bitter so it's really fascinating 'cause you sort of think you're brilliant writer than surely you deserve to be published. But I think she kind of she she she kind of gets back to verizon did a kind of revival of her work and she ended up winning the Booker Prize and or normally be nominated for the Booker Prize and things like that. So you know she. She is the moments where she has been appreciated Shea. Today she should be but again. It's kind of it's sort of fades away and I don. I can't I don't know if she was a man of the same thing would have happened because I think she was from what I understand. She was writing about issues. The no the men don't like these books for men I in terms of the not not not exclusive not in in that sense but like it's okay. The some books aren't for you. You know what I mean you know and and I think that often gets forgotten. So we're when we're judging things we are were thinking about A okay let's be honest. It tends to be a certain group of person who does the judging and if the the book is not for Vat Panel of you know of judges than it's going to overlook But the front you've got excellent women which is a great title for book but Eighties Comes from from a phrase which is used to describe Women who just sort of get the job done and keep out of the way like it's not for the men. Yeah it's hard. Isn't it to convince men because a lot of the main characters of her heroines are not particularly beautiful no not particularly whatever they might be sort of middle aged instead of like glorious Yagi and who know whatever it is that you know might be more obviously appealing And they have this kind of viewpoints and this shop. Acerbic clear-sighted sited is particularly when they're looking at the male characters and you're sort of hearing their thoughts about them in the way that they kind of manage them. Perhaps or the way they try and Ma- navigates the relationships that they're attempting to have or not have with these people and it's yeah it it's kind of it's a very. It's a very mature kind of outlook and I guess yeah and sometimes little bleak in a little not bleak but she has such a way of puncturing any kind of sappy nece anytime with her anytime. There's a bit of romance kind of gets Undercut by some kind of rarely he like like she said for example in a book called old an unsuitable attachment This this woman one of these characters have been talking about eventually. GETS US marriage. No one expected for her and and she And you think ok well great happy ending. But no she. She can't allow that. So she decides she describes the someone in the in the one. The characters describes their Love Affairs in paradise in one another's arms as Milton put it and then he corrects himself and casserole. Perhaps you got to kind of really just always to cut the romance and that can be very this -combobulate eating for people you now when you're when you're expecting something to go along way a certain way and then it goes different way. It can be a bit uncomfortable uncomfortable and I think that You know I mean hey for me. Sometimes I find books a little bit hard to swallow in this regard because I'm a massive romantic and you know have really provides every time because she was. Yeah she was right saying she was catering for a broad audience and she wanted to make money. Basically you can always having problems in the taxman and complaining about you know the money that she didn't have been supporting a lot. You know her family so she always gives that kind of final final happy ending. You know which I find deeply satisfying. I know that's because I've been socialized. The -tudents unrealistic and Blah Blah Blah. But Yeah I I think but sometimes I think Pim's brand of realism and this still with this lovely human. This is sort of elegance is bracing and necessary well models review right. Wow What about you the number four? Well yeah well I think I'm going to go four. Abi Morgan about TV and film So Oh I'll be. Morgan is the writer of the Fantastic TV show the our attorney if you have on BBC yes that was was that about this. Sort of news broadcast was It was a news and current affairs program set in it was it was set in the slums the fifties late fifties and sixties. And yet it was. It was For a fictional. TV show called the hour which was a sort of news thing. A Ah sort of a news night thing And it got into a bit of spice stuff I think towards the second series Had Hides Dominic West in as his One of his first roles outside of the why but the the show itself was was just great and so well written And then she also wrote the iron lady which is fantastic film. That's there are lines in that Wade Lee for form of anything once there's a line China that sticks with me and it's it's when when Thatcher's in a doctor's office and the doctor asks her how she sales and I might be through Mr Member misquoting but she goes on a big tirade about how no one talks about thinking anymore. We're always asked how we fail. Not What we think and I just found a really interesting speech and obviously you've got great performances in the film about but it stems from the writing which was fantastic and she also wrote shame which of Hudler about but still never seen and so As someone who's you know there's there's three things that I think most of us have heard heard of and The name Abby Morgan is one of those that kind of rattles around I think gets gets gets passed around but not necessarily appreciated enough or understood the contribution And the ongoing contributions potentially understood so That that starts while she's Mona before. Wow yeah no I mean. I think there's a lot of female. TV Rights as again. I probably like just generally you know. We don't really tend to think doc of our favorite shows and then think. Oh Yeah so so the writer you know and I don't know if that's because a lot of these modern TV shows have teams of rights is off. That's more of an American thing with elephant. I think it is common in the states and obviously I was. I was thinking about the legs of Tina. Fa but she's thirty well appreciated for she does. Yes as. Is someone like phoebe bridge. WHO's although sort of relatively up and coming still made a massive splash? Yeah I was just saying you know someone like Sharon Hogan is one of my favorites comedy writers. And she's on my Mr. Oh I love her but I wouldn't I must say I don't know. She's under appreciated either. Because I think she's made quite sort of as has and depreciate I think she's she's made most people know her she's kind of carved out of quite a specific area of comedy for herself. Yes as an actress. Absolutely yeah Yeah she she sort of skipped over her for that reason. I think thinking thinking about it more. I'm like I think I think we do understand how good she is what she does so much about all right. So who's your. Who's your number five? Some number five is I was very torn between these two writers and one of which was Nancy Mitford and one of which was Cynthia Voigt. S which is young adult writer who I read. One of his books and I was kid colt runner and it literally changed my life. It was a it was a period of as very self conscious in confused. An you know the changes going on your body and you just don't know what you're doing and this book book. The main character is so sure of himself it said in the sixties and he's just this guy does not give a damn about peer pressure or anything like that and was so hot Ning for me to be like. Why do I care so much about this You know all of this nonsense and it sort of gave me a bit of breathing space to be able to be like what you don't have to you don't have to care. I mean th there are moments when you should and their moments where you shouldn't you know but I don't know I I sort of I was thinking. Oh but you know Nancy Metz. She's a very fascinating example of another one of these writers who was writing about her. First of all she's heard sort of fame as a person in society voss the overshadowed her per you with not her writing was of quality. I think a lot of people just she again included people in her social circle and she was part of the bright young things and she was part of the Mitford sisters to. I'm just GONNA find it in my notes. Because they they will all very contentious characters is in different ways. And you just think too. So what must have been like to to be part of that kind of society society like she would have liked Paparazzi if they'd been Paparazzi in that time she but all of them would have been swamped with it yet. Here it is the The Times journalist Ben Macintyre Anti described them as Diana the Fascist Jessica the communist unity. The hit lover Nancy. The novelist Deborah the Duchess and pounded the unobtrusive of poultry connoisseur. All famous for I mean there's a lot of dodgy. They had three different vastly differing in political views. And you know two of them were very very contentious because they were very in favor of Hitler and in fact unity when when she heard that war had been declared against Germany shot himself in the head so she was writing almost her writing. Couldn't be divorced voiced from her real life and I wonder how much that has affected people's views of of her work and the quality of her work. Because when you look at books like love and cold climates where the pursuit of love the quality of them and the the the way that she forensically examines these people and puts in people that would have been recognized in society but but reveals the characters in such an interesting way has shop dialogue now. She became famous for this dialogue. And it's it's just it's just really interesting because you wonder how would she have been. How would we look at her work? If not for the fact that she had this crazy social life and you know they will have a phase and it's it's she went on to write some historical fiction as well. Madame de Pompadour and Voltaire Teheran. Love and book about Louis. The sixteenth was. So it's it's very interesting to to think Kabbah how she's may be handicapped by this kind of fame she you know. I don't think she particularly. She ended up stopping writing fiction and to focus on the historical novels that she wrote and I wonder if that's because she kind of again didn't really see herself like hair she. She never saw herself as being on the same platform as people like Evelyn war. Who is a great friend of his and a great supporter an An courage to her writing but it is interesting. You Know I. I guess you know she. Her life was what it was So if you had to as they put the cigarette paper between the two of them. It's not it's not necessary for you to fee to make delineation but I'm curious Do you you way one name. Against the other between void. I think in terms of the impact of their work so social impact. I think fits work. Probably has made more more impact I'm not sure so how well known Cynthia I wanted to fit goes welcome. She's a young adult novelist and I wanted to include someone who's writing more for for younger people Yes I mean. Obviously she's also won awards and things like that for her for her work within young ad on again I I wonder how much critical I think. Young adult novels have really come a long way. In terms of being regarded analyzed in an academic. It makes sense but I still think. That's maybe they wouldn't be considered in the same light as you know adults novels. Nobles go ahead so you know it it. I don't know if if you can really compare them because they're kind of writing for different and so different. I mean you know. Void is writing about small town. America several like the Tillman family. Saga you know. She like several books expense. Same family and very simple Subjects and dealt with an a much different way whereas you know Medford's books talk about the surface glitter and getting getting underneath that in a very cutting way. She has quite cynical viewpoints about relationships. Ships seems to regard infidelity just par for the course which was maybe because it was you know again. It's That wholesomeness you know. which which I I sort of gravitate towards which has that you know this? The sense of the main characters gravitating towards each other because they are they see through the sort of facile nature of society that around them but they see the humor in it and they you know whereas Mitt fenced doesn't seem she has a poor opinion of all. She's never judgmental. Oh that's a thing. That's really interesting about her. She never judges characters even if they're quite terrible people Sorry I am. I don't even know if I answered your question. That's right I think you did in the again this is. The journey is more interesting than the Well my the my final one. I'm going to go to another So young adults author. And I'm going to go. I four a woman who is probably unappreciated Under appreciated Because like I'm Shawn Shono instead of Because I picked up so I kind of want to talk a little bit briefly actually about Being me being a a young boy and reading books and enjoying the books and not thinking about the gender qualities of those books but as I sort of as an old man now looking back and going. Oh no they would definitely definitely goes books and I enjoyed the thirdly but they were they will forgo and Like extra interesting to look back on on how that just wasn't it's not even that it didn't matter it's interesting didn't register that there wasn't in my childhood a delineation between I'm sure I knew well a ghost but was but I didn't pick these things up you know one of them was called Dream Pony and I loved it. I loved this book and it was about going to pony was a big thick novel about Caponi but this this Ah this Reuter is tomorrow pass or Tamra Pace. I'm not of Never Been Joe. I I use and and But I discovered her in her book. have I one I think just in a in a library on holiday and She has a book series called Wild Magic and my I drank the stuff up I Just Nam Nam Nam. I really I really got into this And it was About a girl who It's in sort of rural America and this is a girl who has a an affiliation or an an an affectionate affinity. I should say an affinity with horses and she. She's able to speak to horses and then she finds out that Through some teachings She's able to speak. I think to all animals and For the help with stuff and then she gets on. You know conventions as wizards which is in majors and and All these all these different magical people's and beings and I I think I read three or four these books and absolutely love them There was a publisher called Point Fiction and this this point company did lots of things they had like point fancy point horror And I got quite into that brand for awhile and this is the first of these. I think and I as as a kid was thoroughly engaged by them. and Yeah on sort of pleased the that was the case An and they will bookstore. I revisited So yeah the Tom Tom Timur Blue Thomas more in the wild magic book series. I don't know how well they hold up if they do but I really enjoyed them as a kid. Wow I mean that sounds great. It's hard because it's like a lot of you can that the names of Apart of history whereas the not really for me these are just people that I founded a bookshop and it might be nice if more people read them. It's not the same as you know who you're talking about with with your name since I you know it's it's an old one. I think it's really interesting though. Because it's nice to have a combination of paps more sort of historically directly relevant people but with people that would just relevant to you that made you know someone who who made an impact on your young mind with with their magic ponies of. He sounds like something I would have loved as well So it's it's you know I mean I don't think is well. We need to say it's just girls tells you know her boys can like through. You know I'm not saying I'm going to look back on that and go. I'm so glad that there was never a you know There was never delineation. They're never from parents never from anyone else. That was sort of there was no judgment And and so yeah. Obviously the if you I think if you're a kid and you're made aware if someone looks at a booking as oh that's the girls book that's boys book which kids are still somehow ingrained with a lot about stuff I You know I was talking to you earlier and I was my my brother was was helping me makeup up As as a woman Yesterday and ghetto ghetto might up and speaking sewage two nephews and they've got a very clear sense of gender and and I don't think that's come from that parents. I think it's you know it's it's kind of that. There is still stuff in there is boy stuff and I think I thought every the older kids will work these days. You know and sensitive to the same gender normative paradigms and sort of up ending those or off over claiming different different sort of shades of gender for themselves. And now you're telling me they don't know I. I think that is happening. But I think what's happening. Is that some of that it's getting rewritten. Some of those pathways again rewritten at an earlier age so that the delayed who was the most sort of. That's not what the that's what boys like. He was very young whereas the slightly older one was was more sort of. Okay sure you know Oh and I think yeah. I think we're getting more accepting but I think they're still engrained thing but it gets rewritten earlier. Now it does that. Let's come from so interesting. It's like that the couple a recently caused a Ferrari on the sort of daily radio shows when they were. We're saying that they were going to. They had a baby. And we're going to start calling the the The pronouns vade am they From the word go so they would never like impose agenda on the child and of course a lot of of controversy because the people people have strong opinions about this kind of thing so I suppose maybe what it is is the kids. More aware of these delineation in May be more keen to kind of make their feelings felt about. Yeah Yeah we wait in some aval sailing thus far so I what we were talking i. I looked up to see if could find the book Dream Pony and I think it's probably a terrible book. No listen what matters is how it's kind of enshrined as a kid. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I think is probably a bad book. But that doesn't matter by the by lose remind. So what a list Yeah Yeah it's education like genuinely and really really interesting one of the things that I. I'm not only love about the show but I'm really proud about about. The show is going to say like how ignorant I am but I come in as naive and I leave with a league with opinions and I think correct ones and and that's wonderful and it's a testament to having Extremely Knowledgeable guests Don't worry it's not all going to be Important in a couple of weeks we're GONNA be talking about potatoes that starts true speaking of that. Actually that's GonNa make my next next week's guest furious because we actually went on a discussion on her own podcast which is called your own words about Potato Potato Anyway We'll be. I'll probably about that. Actually I want to say thank you. Obviously it's a ceremony to some for Joining me we've quoted this while back while she was getting ready to actually launch the hat hat today series. And and it's it's now out a link is is in the show notes. You can find it in apple podcasts. And all these places you would expect to find fine podcasts. I do. I suggest that you go and do that. Because she's a wonderful storyteller and I'm really excited and and She's new to this guest appearance by Stephen Fry. And there's lots of stuff so Yeah go go check it out. Linke's in the show notes you'll also find links at least envy dot com also want to say a big thank hugh to Russell Parker who has made available who has given me the opportunity. Let's say to watch the classic nineteen. MDC film The apple which was discussed at great length by By myself and Ben Smith last week on this. Very podcast We we talk about The films of the Canon Entertainment Group and the apple was was chief among his picks and as one of his favorites and is sort of the existence so responsible for the existence of a podcast records And and so I'm going to try and have a a bit of a film watching Party with a fellow pod mate Who who has also been on on the show and about whom I'll be talking a little bit later? in subscriber's excellent. But yeah. I reckon we're going to get together and see if we can sit down and watch this so it was. It was really lovely to say on twitter. Ben and Russell having a chat and Discussing that their particular loves for the fell discussing Bam which is something I now. I only have a tangential knowledge but will soon become far more acquainted with and so if you want to get in on the action. My watch just decided that Syria needs to get in on that particular action Siri and find a podcast at least report on twitter and facebook and finally list envy part dot com slash newsletter. Finally got it together. I finally got a Web page Where which which links through to to? Hey you can subscribe to the newsletter which. I hope you recommend that you do because this week. There will be Or Sunday's edition will have have lots and lots of links to to the books that we've discussed this week so if you're interested in them Then you'll get a whole big raft of links to to to to go and check out on your kindle or whatever so list envy dot com slash newsletter comes out every Sunday. It's a great way to catch up with new episodes or episodes. It's not old episodes. You get it. It's fine all right next week. We are doing literally heroines And I'm going to be chatting to the potato obsessed becky gray I am and that's going to be foam about for now. We've got a very very important job to do. We have a final shortlist to to build so let's rejoin the action as they say they don't but let's let's go back to back in the past with myself and Sara Houston and our final compiled compiled list of unappreciated female office. We've got a difficult task ahead of us in that. We've got a now. witless this list down onto to. Five names We we both know that Georgia hair is number one Is there a place in your heart. Or your list of Victoria Wood's Nicole Poelman Gene Kemp Yes Wolf Victoria. Would I would say that she's different. Be An iconic person and I didn't know that much about how how involved she was with the writings of things so I would say maybe we should put her in. They like to three just because I feel like she is an important important. person to sort of celebrates in all aspects of Talents A. K. Drafter in as number two for now and then we can. We can move around I was really taken with your Discussion on Mary Stuart. I have to say And I I really I think I I. I felt moved in an empathy sense And I I really don't know there's something in in the story that you're telling in the way that The she lived her life From what you've given me that. That really made me think I want. I want her to be to be really high about I'd like CNN birth-rate through grade. Yeah happy with that Dot leaves four and five. Now I think I think Barbara Barbara Pym has to be in there. But I think I think it would be important to have a TV rights as well just have a wide spectrum of people included. Yeah I would say then. I think Abi Morgan. It is a is a good contender for that. Okay and I would. I would put her in his number five and I would put Barbara Pym as before. Okay I like it. Yeah Yeah because I think I like the social conscious or the social consciousness stuff of someone writing in in that time while in the in the fifty s When there was more cultural change? I think that's really cool. So let's run this down. Tail Number Five Abby Morgan number before Barbara Pym number. Three Mary Stuart to Victoria. Would a number one Georgia hair. Obvious how you feel about this. Do you consent to this list. I consent sent to this list. Sounds amazing to me so Just before you go then please tell me about fable gazes. Tell me about The the The sugar baby confessionals. And of course today tell me everything so fabled gazes a an Indie podcast company that I sat up and my dream is being entity these kind of series as opposed to long running weekly shows so that I can tell a complete story each season And Katrina was to do them once a year but they take me so dangling that I don't know phobia and I'm having a baby shortly. So who knows what will happen but season one we actually won a British Pike. It cost award which was amazed it was. It was such great validation because you know as you know really well we we work so hot in these puzzles. So let's be let's be real. There's not much there's not much like like we don't have managers giving us like high fiving us for when we've done a good job so you you know to have people recognize how much work had gone into it and was really gratifying. Obviously totally different story. Every story at teco is pretty much pretty different So season one was about a very good friend of mine who decided to become a sugar. Baby that is somebody who takes money or gifts for in exchange for companionship was six so it's all about her journey of a two years. What happens ups and downs downs? The kind of negotiations with her husband with whom she's in an open relationship and it's just really fascinating and I kind of fell into my lap but ultimately it went somewhere that I didn't expect either and I know it sounds societas. Hello Suzie Alkali. But it's also about you know modern love and how that's evolving in this age and Dating and relationships and friendships female friendship as well. So definitely. Well you know if anyone's into that kind of thing season to his whole body chosen hair of just been waxing lyrical about It's going to be like twenty five episodes custodes one week will be interviewing people like Stephen Fry who a massive fans of her work and kind of asking why she's they think she's as being unappreciated. There's going to be a cinematic investigation where I talk to people like Andy Petterson. Who's a really well known film producer? Did the railwaymen Women and go the pill airing as sort of asking why what are the difficulties of putting a regency romance on the screen because it feels like she has a wealth of books that would make fantastic movies Allah pride prejudice insensibility. which people can't seem to get enough of and yet she's being completely overlooked in and to me the fans that's an absolute tragedy and then each biweekly absurd will be a book club Eh episode where anybody can join in reading lists on our website fable gazes dot com and I try basically to convert people who've never heard of short hair sometimes data read romance? They don't so it's it's a bit of uphill battle at times It doesn't always go in my favor. I'll do a sort of running tally of how he boy managed to convert fund. But yet and while we're doing that will be contextualising. The books that we look at. What was she up to? At the time of writing the book you know how to what was happening in your life impacter writing and you know all of that sort of thing thanks. I'm hoping that it will be enjoyable. It's a hell of a lot of work I've got. I've got a very real deadline in the sense that I am literally bringing a new Hubert into the world in December so like fingers crossed. That will be off the time. I'm hoping to release in December. The the podcast or the child the baby drops on Apple podcasts. Yeah well Ceremony this is a this is over excising. Obviously I wish you all the best for both of your your births in in in in December And obviously leaks to to everything to fable guises under a unforeseen to are in the show notes But YET FABLE GAZERS DOT com. Well what what. One absolute wonderful hour. This has been to spend with you and to talk about some wonderful wonderful. That's wonderful writer so Sarah Thank you very much for for spending time with me thank you so much I feel nourished.

writer the Times Stephen Fry Gene Kemp Mark Steyn Somerset Maugham Elizabeth Finan Texas Barbara Cartland Mary Stuart Jane austen publisher Osama Tucson London Georgia Hayley mills Johnson Hugh Walpole Julie Walters
152. Late Night with Emma Thompson and Mindy Kaling

The Guilty Feminist

1:00:17 hr | 1 year ago

152. Late Night with Emma Thompson and Mindy Kaling

"Hollow guilty feminist this week show is different from usual. We recorded it before, and after a very special advanced screening of the new film, late night, written by Mindy Kaeling, and starring indicating and Emma Thompson. So firstly you're here, Emma Thompson, and may talking live at the picture, how central before the screening. And then you'll be able to hear me having a private one on one with Mindy Kaeling at a press junket in London. And then the final part of the episode will be more of me and Emma at the picture house after the film is over there might be one or two, very minus boilers, for the film, but nothing that's going to ruin your enjoyment of it. So if you'll soup spoiler a phobic, see the film, I and come back and listen to the rest of the episode, but otherwise dive right in, and you can see the film at a cinema near you from June. Seventh try and go opening weekend. And send a message to Hollywood that we love films written by women and driven by women. Now, own with this very exciting episode of the guilty feminist. I can't wait for you. Here. This one. I am a feminist bought. I am more excited to introduce this woman, then I would be to introduce, Gloria Steinem, if she were coming out to resurrect Emily Pankhurst, and Maya Angelou on this stage plays, welcome to the stage. The incredible only the legendary national treasure. Far. I think good. Anyway. I'll take it. So I am a feminist. But some years ago in my twenties, I was doing a play on film gold knuckle with Tim Roth who on my husband's in the audience tonight. So I was going gonna be kept how I say they see quite fancied actually, and there was a scene where I suddenly realized, I had to appear in a swimming costume, so I swim coach coachee Molin, obviously, hated my body immediately because that's what I did. That's what I've done actually every day since I was fourteen. I put it on an little Hugh. There was a bit of a. Happening and. Push them in, if I thought that dick, and then I thought, okay, I go into the shower of my dressing room, and I was claiming away with a razor, just get. Just. The time is ticking by find nothing happened except I've made nasty marks on my thighs. And then I thought, okay I can't all is Tim's released really hot. Oh, maybe I started charge if I have to go out with Epping forest between my legs, and then I went and looked at my costumes, and I found a pair of tweet trousers I put them on and I went downstairs, and I said to the director, I think my character would have a problem with swimming in just assuming that she's quite buttoned up and I'm going to do this scene in tweet charges. And then when I go back to the dressing, I realize, I had not taken the cap of the razor. Trunk. Does it truly delightful story? Did you do the seat in tweets rouses? Did you frankly? That's some Hollywood have done your part that they allowed that. No, no, no, no. They just didn't know who I wasn't. I was mentally today. In fact, it was I, I just think you appreciation eccentric. Maybe I've got one more. I'm a feminist part. I decided I was too pale just before I left the house. So I put on some fake ton. That's fast developing. So at the moment, I'm an oak. But like a polaroid. I will continue to develop at maybe by the end of the evening. Mahogany. I felt it should declared in case anyone noticed. At least we're rolling on it. It's fun for everyone now. So I am so excited to be here with Emma Thompson. Introducing this incredible film late night. Why Mindy Kaeling starring indicating and Emma Thompson? Now when I heard it was about a woman who had an American late night chat show and had had one for thirty years. I assumed it was science fiction, and that I'd be seeing marina Silva, jumpsuits with anti gravity boots. But when I watched it, it wasn't really such fiction, it was more like a sort of fantasy alternative reality. Like konda. There is a world, a parallel universe, where a woman could be a chat show host and have been for thirty years, and it can be this year. Is this a life, you think you could have had because you almost out, you won the period. You're the first period they invented the period, four year really did with it. I want it with Hugh Laurie. Stephen fry. Is when I asked you Laurie that he said he did win it. So that's mention new tool. Come up. He was like, yeah. I did want invented for me. So you won the very first period with some men and you went on. And you did comedy. Yeah. Did you stunned up? I did briefly. I did sketch comedy for years with Hyun Stephen, and Ben actually trying desperately to sort of occasionally right things and kind of shoulder the bit. I've written it. Oh, no. Sorry, I'll just try. I've written this owner notes Feinstein's Feinstein, does matter. It does matter. I'll just I'll put over here. And then I would rehearse the things I'd written in a corner, and they don't go because they weren't interested. So it was very difficult to wedge yourself in to anything. All feel confident enough to write any comedy. But I did do stand up. In fact, I spent my twenty fifth birthday doing stand up at the crew. It in warehouse. I got sick. So we now know it was such an extraordinary feeling except I knew that I would die of fright before the age of. Thirty if I carried on doing it, because it is very, very frightening. And I did stand up on Nelson's column when I was twenty four thousand adds to the fear in a way that unnecessary. You're absolutely right. It was a political rally. Yeah. I think you're watching in a fear of hypes there. And if you die on Nelson's column, it's just a long climbdown, isn't it? It's just like if you Don a comedy cover, you could just sort of out through the curtain out the back and off you go you're on your weight Nelson. It's just such a long climb down when everyone's funding. I wouldn't do that. Now, I don't understand how that could have happened, but it was a political rally, and they said up you go Emma, do you do some because all the stuff I did political rallies of political benefits and sometimes it went very well. And sometimes it didn't. But the comedy store was terrifying. That place and it was very, very blow key. I mean, stand up still pretty low-key here. I haven't noticed I. Yeah. No, it is still significantly blow key, but spaces like the guilty feminists and other spaces are changing. That that's right. And wintering in national tour at the moment, and we've Neri amount on the stage and we've had two houses of the fifteen hundred people and I have said he's an amazing. It's an amazing time that we can do this. Did you have a good experience? When you had your own sketch show, I did a sketch show in Engro onstage, which was pretty good. Actually, it was a bit of a struggle, but it was pretty good. And then I did an hour for channel four, where I wrote the script, and they accepted it, and then the glare on channel four said, Don stand this, and of course, why would he understand it? He'd never had a women talking about funny stuff before you know what I mean. It literally was like it's like a new language. It was like a new language back, then there wasn't there wasn't much there was Victoria, wood, and there was French and Saunders, and I was doing stuff that was, of course was feminist feminist, but it was interpreted in the most extraordinarily, but. Everyone felt so hard. It's man-hating. They said anyway. This guy ran channel four said I don't understand why this is funny. So I said, well, I'll do it for you, then. So did the whole show for him in his office. No, he said, okay, then you can make it. But it was like that. Then, and then I did a six hours, which would quite out, then they were very different and new, and the press were kind of extraordinary, Michael Palin came back from one of his long tools, and he read the independent and the guardian the independent said, this is an important bit of comedy by a young artist is trying to stretch the boundaries of comedy and trying to change the voice of comedy and the guardian said who the fuck gave this woman money to make this shit who there was so route with them, they were incredibly personal enrichment. Mike watched it and said, I six students is comedy show. Some of it's good some of it's bad. It's a comedy show. So it's a bit like this causes people because they go off and decide does not compute, and so I stopped doing comedy and I was still. Okay, so I better do drama. Then ability drama because they don't want me to be funny. That's interesting because that's the power structures at the time. Yeah. Just saying, you're not welcome in this space. This is not a female space getting into that space. Having said that I was helped by a male producer of comedy who helped women, and people of color with comedians, Humphry Berkeley, who also champion Desmond's which was one of the first sitcoms, that start anybody of color. So he was great. I mean, you know, there are great allies, as you come up, but is interesting about this. Because everyone comes out, actually. No, let's talk about this later. Yep. Great. Okay. So this is late night. It's about a late night. Chacha host. Starring Emma Thompson. It's written by indicating and also starring Mindy Kaeling, and you're going to enjoy it very much. It's a wonderful comedy. And I can't wait for you to see it. We'll see you later. See later. We'll see after. Hello. This is fully city ward. Sometimes co host of the guilty, feminists podcast that you're listening to right now. Hey, I just wanted to tell you, I'm in a play at the moment, I'm starring in a play called kill climate deniers. I know it's a lot hotted title. It's on at the pleasance theatre for all of June in London from the fourth of June, it stops, and what we're doing is, we're offering a little discount. Just for friends of the show, you can type in creative twelve and you can get a cheaper tickets for the first week it's telling really fast anyway, we just wanna fill it up, so please go to Pleasants dot co dot U K for those tickets or you can go to my Instagram page, and that will have the link and it's absolutely would, but you already follow me on Instagram onshore. Anyway, you're right. As that love you. Bye. This with this audience. Well, great. You. Can you? Besides you are the only second person on the guilty feminists to be not in front of an audience and have something trumped in the other one CDC calm in London, man L, first of all, I have to say it's so great to meet you need to tell you. I've watched every single episode of the Mindy project. I did. I did. I am delighted in surprised we were rolling. Now. I see happening right? I think we're rolling us every second of this. We made them this is gold. That's lawyers. You know, this out of the door happening, you know, trying to lock the door that it truly a bomb trying to try to win the door open. There's something going on here. Chris salvage acre, Sean, is doing some serious wedging their Chris, you're hurt at work. What is your and your money? We don't on impressive. Look at all these buttons. So yeah, I'm friends with Ed week sexually. We over together back in the day, great guy, and he dated my remain ones. So I sort of lived with at weeks for a bit on and off, and you have remained friends, though. They broke up. Yes. Absolutely. But this is not the plot if fuel movie. No. It's a love life of one of my co stars. That's more interesting to me all I know I know it's a little bit of psycho going on. Can I say, I enjoyed late night so much? And here I found it. So funny. Thank you. I will also say that the nations of about structural violence to women in comedy was so on the money I cried like it was tones of demon. Wow. And I sorta the screening room in SoHo at ten AM on a Monday morning. Just with two other people, I was sitting there. They were like looking at me like this because I was like. Like the how it was something that triggered that when your character was being brutalized by the system and being spoken to in certain ways, and modulation sent ways and being treated like she wasn't funny and Bruce lies, basically just triggered something deep in me as a woman in comedy, I didn't know I felt so traumatized that resonated with you. You feel your experiences have. Made you remember your experiences or that felt real to you on a cellular level. Wow. And he's still happy. I mean, I'm not happy that you have those experiences. But I am happy that it's resonating because you make these movies and it's not like there was a bundles of us or anyone else third to remember what it was, like to come up like that. So it is beyond gratifying to hear that, though. Of course, I'm sorry that you went through it. No, I was so surprised because I didn't know I always on you. You know, I've had some experiences, but I've also had wonderful happy Thompson comedy upstairs. The guilty. Paul Costes amazing to do. And I work with the incredible women. So it was such a surprise to me that it was deep down inside of me. Like, David, my vagina is in just a minute was just coming out on my face and it wasn't just like twos rolling down. I was like. I was like, looking at me, like nobody's dying in this movie. Why are you crying so hard? So I guess I want to ask you like how much of this is drawn from your experience. As a woman in comedy, and also women of color in comedy coming up being in writers rooms, I'm not asking you to name names. Either the experience of being the only woman in the only minority in a writer's room was is from my life. It is how it was. When I worked on the American version of the office that first year that being said the writers room on that show, which was Greg Daniels. Michael Sherwood, BG Novak board, not at all like the writers seen although they had a lot of the trappings of the writers you seen in the movie, but reason why the movie was something I felt I needed to write was that the two leads, I identified completely with both of them Emma's character who's been in comedy for a while. And, you know, a little complacent a little out of touch impatient. Huge grouch that is definitely how I was after one hundred seventeen episodes of my show. But it also vividly remembered the terror that you feel coming into this world where you don't look like anyone else that's been hired and everybody knows that you are the diversity higher in America. A diversity higher is a ton of phrases. Not. Yes. For. Somebody who's hired. Now to fill a quota to fill a quota. But in reality, I know from my friends, who work in America will women of color, and I have some very close friends who are working registrants on, they have to be so good to get into that room. So it's not like this, this low standard for women of color. It's feels like they have to be better than the white guys that into the room in the first place. But then there's this diversity, high thing hanging of the head Jared such a tricky thing because I oh, you know, at NBC where I was the diversity hired. My salary was paid, by the networks that it didn't take a hit financially on the show. So it was really successful in incentivizing people to hire minorities. The problem is everyone knows your diversity higher. And if you're the only person of color in the room, you feel a have to make it here without having any allies necessarily, and then also I represent if I have a bad day if one of the writers in the show has a bad day, one of the one of my. White male colleagues, you don't think okay, we'll that's Representative of all white men and how their talents. But when you do badly on a show like that you also feel down, you're, you're letting down a huge group of people, so it's terrifying to be a diversity higher, especially if you're only one of them, which is for a long, long time, there would just be one minority in a room, you're free that first year, and then if you're not good, then you're fired. So writing this turtle on my own, like fearful feelings that I had fourteen fifteen years ago when I first started out on the but it was it was really cathartic to write about it. I feel the same way on British comedy. Panel shows, you know, you go out and is generally only one woman yet, and they made a ruler had to be one woman. They've pretty much not as a maximum. You'll sitting that, and, you know, you know, you'll told us the woman staff Twitter for two days because people are getting are. And he's like you're carrying like your whole Genda reflecting a whole gender. So you've to be good because you'll proving that fifty one percent of the population is funny. It's like that's a law, it's able to carry it. Yeah. And, and so that experience really came out for me. Now, obviously, this film is kind of science fiction film, because it's about a woman on late night television, who has ruined show. I'm not clearly something for time will into the future yet still hasn't happened. It's twenty nineteen and you'll still more likely to have your own show. If you call Jimmy than if you're a woman that's true. Like if in fact, very good chance if you're Jimmy Jimmy Kimmel Jimmy Fallon. Yeah. Jimmy, Cody if you're born named James, you have a one in three likelihood that you'll go become a late night, talk show. It's, it's done a main major network. It's absurd me if I had a son, that's what I would adjust. Just just fingers crossed, what made you a much in a world in which women could be a late night chat show host. And how did that kind of like informed the whole piece? Honestly, it came from the fact that it didn't seem like me Mindy, killing was going to write a movie with a male lead of fifty eight year old white male lead in having this job. And then I thought, well, if I make it a woman, it's not going to be believable. And then I was thinking, well, no Lin Manuel. Miranda, just played Hamilton in the biggest theatre phenomenon we've ever had. I'm sure that if he can play Hamilton, we can imagine a woman talk shows, it's much smaller leap to make will like Star Trek though. They say Star Trek the original series, informed, a lot of the gadgets, we have because the gadget make is we're going. Oh, how would we do that? So similarly, I think you'll movie is going to inspire women being late night host. I hope so man, from your lips to God's ears because I think the casting Emma, I'm going to read the movie for Emma. I don't think there's anyone who has left the movie, whether they like it or don't like it. Who isn't like? Oh, I completely. By her be taught. Levi and that she got the job, you know, twenty eight years ago, thirty years ago, and that she's been doing it for so long, and she her whole demeanor, it seems as though. Honestly, when I watched her, I was like it felt like denied dapper this from a play that she did where she played a talk show host. You just feel so at ease. And we shot this movie in twenty five days, we didn't have any rehearsal, we had no money. So she just stepped into this role and you just knew Catherine was, and just did it, you know, with almost no direction, you'll both so good in a thank you. But she is so plausible as this really hard bitten, you can see she's been brutalized in her day. I'm Bill top. And she feels like that's the only way she knows how to be now, which, again, I recognize I think some of the emotion, I'm spilling when I was watching it was around the way, sometimes women treat all the women because of the structural bias, this absolutely preposterous. That be completely will I. Really resonate with Emma's character has this very flawed view of my success is enough that I've done enough for women. And people can see me. I'm the only woman female late night, talk show. That's enough. I don't have to do anything else and a lot of people feel that way. And I remember when I started my show, I thought it was so insurmountable. The amount of work in the things that I had against me to become a lead of eight sitcom on major network. I can't do anymore. I don't there's not enough time in the day. And of course, you know, I realized that, that's incorrect that isn't enough in less. We're making providing opportunities for other women other people of color as employers were, we're not really doing enough. But with I think really fun about the movie is, I think both characters with Emma's character end mine would identify as feminist. But we're completely different kinds of feminist. This is the kind of thing is intersectional feminism that is I find very interesting. They don't really sound very. So, I haven't talked about it, that much herbs of interviews of the movie, but it is a lot of what I thought it out. Good. Good. So is just thinking she said, intersectional feminism the greatest day of. Okay, gum, I'm talking to the right person then for my interests, completely completely a you, please wind down, what, what this is. So fun, though. I, I talked about Ed weeks's lovely for like a full third of mine knows about Ed. You don't you did not. Can I just quickly all skew? Do you have an I'm a feminist? But so the cold open about podcast feminist bought. So, for example, this is a true on feminist. But sometimes I found size about famous fictitious misogynist, don't rape. And I truly believe that if I met him I could make him hole in Healy's pain. Do you have anything acid? Do you have anything that you feel like is a, a paradox feminism like I'm a feminist Bob? I'm the feminist. But I love the movie master and commander the far side of the ocean. Is for any self-respecting feminist? It is a very strange movie. It is one of my favorite movies through no female characters. I don't think there's a single person of color in that movie, and I can love it. I don't know what to say. I'm telling you, I'm the same about charts. Affi-. It's the absolute best nary a woman in it, and oldest about posh Wightman coming my movies about English sailors, enduring pirate times. Russell Crowe and Jennifer Connelly's husband. Yup. Yup. I got there on the high seas there on the high thinking mom doing things and being violent. Yes, I hear that. And I'm next about like that movie is one of my favorite, I'd like to thank you, so much having adults in for supporting the movies and much every shit. She's so not like that. Cartoon real life. Thank you so much. Also, vicious internals Michelle shoot us this coastal when she got off because I. I wonder with everyone. Hello guilty feminist. I'm Sony in from the Nive tool. Yes, I'm on the road. Thank you so much to everybody's. Just come out the audience has been incredible all over the country. It's been such an amazing celebration. I'm so happy to see so many of you that, and now we have a big announcement we have paying the Royal, I would hold on the seventh of July somebody else noon to three pm now. We're doing it in an awesome is that people can get back to different places around the country because we know you like to be in bed by ten o'clock. We know what old you. So get tickets, no make weekend of it, the sixth of July nothing this pride, and the seven is devoid up Bush. Oh, no. It's run their things we can do that. We can't do anywhere else. For example, we have going to open with the middle of our original co host doing if they someone dumped from we are going to have some guests, we've ever had before we all going to have some extraordinary optical pieces because it'd be able to do. Full have music, we're gonna lift the ceiling off the board about hold, if you've seen twenty nine so it's in the same threats, but it won't be the same material, you can come again, and it's going to be like Jill, some this. I'm your general thing. We weren't many guilty this from around the UTA, and you're to be that as possible, which is, why would you not on Sunday afternoon. Tickets stuff at ten pounds because feminism. But if you can afford a twenty five hundred thirty five hundred please by one of those leave the ten time once for those who can't afford them, we said, no, she gets to be forty nine in the plus possible seats he's going to be an absolute extravagant, but I just can't wait to tell you more about it, so please get tickets. Now. Do, don't wait. 'cause that's going, very, very phone also next Monday, the tenth June, which only shows the, the pulled cost recording. And we've got some very special guests getting. No and get tickets while you can activate eight fifty we will be in cell sauce, tickets very Danny gone. So get in. Wanted to come this one, they assistance, you we're doing the secret policeman's toll with Amnesty International. We have an incredible lineup and I can not exclusively to you, and Rachel bloom. It's going to put in and do a set. So get to get out there really aren't many left. You can get tickets for all of these guilty. Feminist don't come Olsen. My book is out in paperback and have new interviews with gossipy for you wanna bridge, pick one up today. I'm finding me an announcement for American and Canadian listeners late night. She's coming out set in June. And also swimming mind, you film, say my name which opens in excess is around the country. But go and do a double got like three. But say my name at clone. It will be available on the mom on June fourteenth as well as painlessly cinemas you can pre buy on them as an ice, you've now. So in and beat the rush if you haven't seen the frame yourself when you choose just romantic comedy about a one month done on role, the film has been a festival calling. I've already got full teachable long. Check it out. You think I started playing on and movie. All those electric entertainment dot com for class say hyphen my hyphen name oh, these, oh, I'm signing the on the school of June noon intra squad. There's going to be a protest for Trump. Visiting london. And I was speaking at that rally, petits come along and support if you want to find out what the Celtics, I'm this will be checkout out socials now like the cost. Tomes. Really, really love this film. I loved it more. The second time and I cried more appropriate places which was good. And I love that you've managed to humanize this character who could have been a bit of a to debone star, and she's not, you can kind of see in her that she herself has been brutalized has found it hard coming up and has got to that point, which I think a lot of women of this generation in various industries feel like no one helped me and Zony wants supposed to the top for a woman. And if you start helping out the women, I it will be suspicious of you, because you're letting women in, and that's what they thought about you, when you got in, and Secondly, no one helped you and you can't go helping people. But you see that sort of stopped to crack in her relationship with Molly who's Mendis character when you watch it, what kind of responses do you have having made it? Okay likes to not for men, the road to any Joe. But particularly in comedy is. A motorway you know, there's an awful lot of lanes, and there's lots of different kinds of vehicles in this by there's lots of people in the mode, and they're all going in various directions and there's loads and loads of very good. Well, sign posted places to go and lots of roads and just tons of choice. And for women, there's a kind of mountain pass sort of gully, which is strewn with boulders and with lots of full sexists. And if you don't have someone someone that to say, I don't go down there, because there's a cliff edge, and you're just going to have to turn around and come back and carry on, I'm actually if we all just go together. We could shift this bold a slightly over, and it will just widen this bit, which will make it clear. That, that's the way you're supposed to go. That's what it's like for women everywhere in every walk of life, every job, and comedies, a particularly hard number because quite honestly, men, don't know how or why women are funny because they often don't here. Women being funny. And of course, I was ago people been saying, but of course, there was the old joke. You know how many feminists does it take to change a light bulb? That's not funny. That was the guy. But of course, if women didn't have a sense of humor, we wouldn't have survived, if we didn't have a says a few, we would all be dead. We would not have survived being female. That's the point. That's why we have a sense of humor and all very funny, because we needed it to defy so that I think is boy till to remember, we have a little valley place. We don't know quite what we need help. We need assistance. We need mentors. We need older women to say it's very important that Catherine makes that step, you know, that she changes. And that's what I think, is okay, about Mendis writing, yes, she doesn't change her counter Akhter, but you feel her come into the twenty first century and enjoy it and relax and think can I show on. Can I be collegiate with women? Can I be in a place where it's not all just white men? And I'm the only one and cannot be relief rather than something to be feared. Well, yeah, because he actually says, look, Hal, I've been using even the same cadences as these guys. And I remember I mean, not little piece of me doing stand up was me doing stunned, though on twenty three in. Yeah. In the big big Victoria. You remember the big Victoria would shirts and jackets and everything on all my standup was about sexually transmitted diseases com. Think why. Okay, I'll tell you, it's because an Australian boyfriend gave me her herpes, and I was completely obsessed with herpes which was around around the same time as Margaret Thatcher was in power, and they were kind of similar. Toxically difficult to get rid of. I'm very unhealthy. So that was my stuff. And I would go up to Maine in the orders, I would say, I'm going to do it now, I'm going to say. So how is your sexual hygiene because, of course, is to do with sexual hygiene, and I would go up to them quite close and say, do you wash it properly really is noting? But I mean really do you Ruutel around with the cotton, bud? Do you really get underneath, and, you know, work work into it, and then blokes just though, it'd be women next? I'm going to tell you. Coyame. For him this no need key can speak themselves. So that was my, my method was it was to terrorize man in the audience about sexual piji methods and sometimes it went done quite well. Then I had a good guy about Thrush. Yeah, we hit was, we all know in the olden days before you could just take one of those pill things you did treat by putting tampons in yoga and shoving them up because the yoga helps with the Candida the east infection, I don't know if you know about anyone telling you now and it's just very useful way. So anyway, my guy was while I sent my boyfriend out to get the yogurt thing, and he came with tropical fruit enough life. I'm not a big law thirty years ago, which just shows you nothing's changed. So that was my stunned up. So for the listeners of the podcast, there is a scene in the film, where Mendis character Molly is watching 'em is current to Catherine on a laptop like a YouTube clip. And that was really you. 'cause I thought how dumb or is that really you? And it looked so Victoria would the style. And I'm delighted that it actually really was was a will. I'm so going back to watch every single one of those clips did Mindy, right. This especially for you. Yeah. Yeah. She did. She did. And she was doing the Mindy project at the time was five years ago, I was told that she had written Johnny for me. I didn't really know much about her seeing a little bit. But I don't tell Ian I'm very lot, right? And in general, and ignorant and she came, and she was in her Mindy project outfit, which was quite out there, and I thought quite weird white ware, and she's written something for me and most things that have been written for me a kind of about, you know, the kind of all kill the gist. Joe graffiti teaches you know who discover love late in life, and then get dementia and very brave, and they don't they refuse to give up their identity. And, and it's all very moving. And every time I get one of those, I just read a seriously, just want to stop and kill myself. And so I get the script and I think maybe it won't be like that because she's wearing some very funky clothes, but you can't judge a book rights cover, and then I read it in forty-eight hours later, rowing my agent. So we have to do this. We absolutely have to me, this film, because this is the best gripped, I've heard in years. And she wrote one she was writing on the office, so she was writing all week at the office. And then for some reason, this young into woman wrote, slowly for me she lives in LA. She wrote just a couple of hours every Saturday for three years. I mean yeah it's not. But you can. Creepy. But amazing. And I can see how she wrote it wild working in the writer's room at the office, because she was very much in environment. She loves she said. Yeah, she was the diversity high, but she said she relates to both characters now because she's being the show runner of the Mindy project. She said, I've been that diversity higher of being the only woman of color in the room, the only person of color in the room, the only woman in the room, and I've also been the grouchy boss, who comes in and shouts it. Everyone gets furious and leaves but is the one of the interesting things about it was also the Piff unease that the entirely white male stall hats about molly's presence there as well? Because you could see at the beginning, they would just inherently suspicious and I feel a lot of men that only know now, it's like a lot of men. I know have said to me something along the lines of I'm one of the good ones. I'm not Harvey Weinstein, which is fed the note. But it's like they've been holding a book of donuts, the whole of their life. And I've got I've always offered them round of always offered the doughnuts around and someone's trying to take the doughnuts from me. And I don't know how to explain to them. The doughnuts were never yours. They would give into you and era. Now the doughnuts states being a box on the table. If there's twelve doughnuts, and twelve people. Everyone gets one you don't get to pick. I and I've seen men recoil from the and go, they among my donors, and I've always offered you a half. So it feels confronting am I understand it? It must be annoying to have, you know, thousands of years of white male supremacy to have been born five years, too late. That's really interesting. Yeah, I must be annoying. I'll get it again. It's just like what the fuck like decades of my life have gone by and the only people represented loops site. I think it's interesting to see how much Mindy allowed them to change as well. And to find joy in diversity, and I don't mean token diversity joy in working with Molly joy in seeing things differently. And there's one point where your current to says something along the lines of, I want you to work with her because I don't want everyone to think the same everyone else in this room thinks the same. And that was a really incredible moment, I think, in the film, because that's very rarely said, it's mostly, we need to versus because of representation, but actually it's sometimes it's about diversity of thought. Oh, goja. Yes. Absolutely. I mean, we also foreign language, don't we in many ways. An I've always had this rows all the time we've been Elton about comedy, whom I love on thinks very funny, and he would all q about punch lines and. And I would argue the comedy for me wasn't about punch lines. Okay. So my mom used to work in, Russell rooms, and she used to say whenever mine's daughter to tell a joke, she had a sinking feeling in her heart, because even if it wasn't funny, she was going to have to love, you know, and is it still? Here's a good one. Here's a good one and you go to my fucking how long is it gonna go, and then I'm going to have to? I'm that particular form of humor, I think is very muscular because it is starting something, and it builds builds builds to a punchline, which is like the nation and the female comedy is much more circular, and there's sort of lowest moments in lots of different places. But it never quite comes to an end when it tells you feel really satisfied. I think there is actually seriously, a connection between all the way in which are sexuality and are orgasmic function, works, and the way in which we laugh because, as you know, laughing proper laughing when you really really can't stop in the Tisza squeezing out from the corner of your eyes is better than sex. I think it is Bono. They didn't know whether it's a law for that. I think that's because we don't ever want to admit that anything is better than sakes because that makes his uncall- and somehow the I can admit that now because I'm sixty I mean obviously not with my husband in the room. So actually really haunt laughing very, very hard. It's not better than sex with my husband just wanted to make absolutely clear. Better than sex with all other people. Yes, the poll. Yeah. Oh, and to that point, my character has an affair with a younger mine. And I am a feminist bought if a man like him, you know, offered any kind of interesting things on my reaction would not be like sixty year old numbers. Oh, just get washed and come to my room. My reaction would be Ono dawning. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not appropriate. I'm not no. I'm not in any condition and. No, no, no, no, no. Oh, no God. I can't even oh and then I stopped to think about it and become truly embarrassed in the pool now. That's not natural. You should be allowed to be pleased really should be 'cause I've been completely brain. Well, I think that's the structures around us. I'm a feminist. But John Lewis go, you still would. Dumbly. But I thought, what was interesting about this is John Lithgow had the women's part because the women's part, is normally the wife, she only appears to be a bit side and a bit distant player sonata and then be publicly humiliated. Told. Right. Tom, I stood off. You really not. So she gets to do, and this is the second film. I've seen you I saw you in Roma Stanley Tucci with very similarly. He just had to lull around in the background looking very miserable about your big career and then. Enough you so much from a distance. I mean you'll banking until nothing gets. I'm absolutely nothing on the quantity of mom, you can get to pine about you as well. This go to shake. That's easy student Rian. I mean not. So to those two who were able and willing to see good writing and support a woman, you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, I used to say I used to have a guy who's they'll have to zoom someone to play opposite me because I'm this age. But actually that has changed a bit. Although it is still very hard to get men to do those supporting roles it is. It's very hard because it's not as story we're not looking out there is. No. And I love that about this film, as well that, although there were all of these guys in the writer's room and they've got lots to do and never funny. In every witty, we're not looking out of there is we don't empathizing with them. We don't really care. What happens when they get fired? They just go off, and we don't see them again, which is normally, what happens usually our role additionally on role or we see somebody in the writer's room a bit marginalized, or whatever we see how they. React to Molly own how they react, Catherine and then that's it. We don't follow them home. We don't follow home, the man, you have a plotline with. If you've seen the film, you'll know what I mean who we would normally follow home, and we don't see him again. He just gets written out because he's not really relevant anymore. We are looking at this through your eyes. We're looking at it through molly's is with somewhat looking at it through your husband's is which is appropriate in this situation because their emotions there, but it's really your story. And that's what's magnificent about it for me. And I feel like it shouldn't be in two thousand nineteen exceptional to be looking through the eyes of a woman over fifty and the eyes of an Asian American woman over thirty five but it is remarkable. And what's so interesting about doing the publicity for it because I've been doing days and days and days, we do at junket which means that you talking lots of journalists went off to the other some from Europe. Some of all over the place. I'm what's fascinating is they immediately get. Well, it's so interesting. How many issues there are in this movie and there's the issue of ages him himself? What's interesting about it is, actually it's not their issues. They're just they'll send tick lives of these women. So it's just normal for us. It's not issues. It's just life. And that I think is what's so extraordinarily about that piece of writing is he don't really, we don't wake up and think I live in issue. No. Have any shoot I do. In fact, they've been an issue, a big fucking issue just say it's still remarkable that ninety nine times out of one hundred when you go to the cinema. You're looking at very nation experience, which a white straight, male life has quite neat because given its say in this country, half the population over half the population of female, and then of the male population some gay some trends, some men of color, some disabled, the actual white straight, male SIS non-disabled, life experiences quite niece, and it's great that, that minority is represented so frequently it's good to put minorities on the screen. But I'm just questioning whether we need asthma of that minority experience because it is presented as a majority experience. We have really good at looking through the eyes of white men. We very all very skilled at it. It. I remember I was watching two wonderful life at Christmas. With Susan Makoma. She was sitting crying and crying. And I thought it's so interesting because she just knows how to look through James to its eyes and feel for him. And for herself in that moment, she's really skilled at that. But Wightman will very rarely look through a black woman's is at Christmas. It's true though. And if he does, it'll be a black woman film. So it's sort of, like, oh, I'm watching an exotic piece of world cinema. All it's you'll still don't quite invited to sort of just inhabit and getting. It's like, oh, look at that other experience just because it's just so read, what I would say to all of the podcast listeners is please support is on opening weekend because that's what makes the difference between this kind of film, being made more frequently and for this to become normal, and for this to be something where people say, oh, we tried making a film with women who not twenty two and drinking the whole time because that's their certain sorts films, women allowed in. Yeah. Drinking and forty over patiently as a large group. Yeah. Too loud. Yeah. And shitting the yes, is called in public. Yeah. Going to India. I'm then having some kind of culturally appropriated life. Piffling. Allowed to do that, or a big in a sarong sex in India, as, as a as a spiritual experience. Yeah. If you wanted to not have the confidence to open a cupcake shop. Until you met a mom is a loser in every other way. Bumps had the key to the cupcake inside of you. And that's why you end up with him. That would be open to you, as long as you were also able to make him realize that he should be making handmade coffee tables. Those are the things that we can we can. But just I'm vicious women on screen charging around a not having time for anything outside. Don't be interested in anything else. You don't see it. Do you know women like that? Normally in films acute. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. You it's by ROY mumps that's the bad ending. That's the sort of like a man will come along and make you see what I loved about lists. Go is. When you'll count says, what I'd already friends children, you didn't. Exactly wanted this. You wanted a full and excellent career. And that's what you got out of the event essay now on the screen. I have either I'm especially in this form, which is a kind of straight up comedy. It's a comedy. It's not designed to be an art house movie. I mean it actually was going to be a studio picture, which is unusual because he's such a great script. And because Mindy house this form, it was going to be made by FOX two thousand and we had to postpone, because we had disease in my family, and then we had to postpone again, because Midi got pregnant, and inconvenient life things happened that nature. And in the end, we shot it lost year in New York in twenty five days for about seventeen dollars. And it was it was one of those passionate we wanted to make it and everyone wanted to make everyone nobody was being paid. But everyone was there, onset sixteen hours a day for twenty five days because they wanted to create this thing that we've never seen, and I know it's why if we never seen it, it's so sad. Isn't it? But it's great that it's there when was there. Well, no, we'll have late night, talk show. Maybe we will. Because when you imagine something like that Mendis mentioned her. Yes. And so I can Star Trek informed a lot of technology. We have now indeed it did it did. Because because people inventing things will watching Star Trek and going. Oh, well, how would you make that similarly is possible, that some television executives in America, watched this go to know what we could make this a reality, we could actually make this reality if they offered, you know that. Now, I would be the swirling around in their heads, and yet they offered you a chat show. Would you take it suddenly north? Every its grueling. And relentless was ruling relented, so he wants it late at night, which is just doesn't. I mean, I'm in bed, but about ten oh, no. I couldn't do. We've achieved the offering. They could screen it in the evening though. Gotten those, but I doubt this is off the record. If you want it to be just to stay in his kind of sonnets doesn't have to be on the podcast. You just did an episode of SNL. I did. Yes. Do you wanna talk about? I don't know. Yeah. It'd be fascinating, right? Excellent. Let's get in. Okay. Saturday Night Live. Yes. How was that? So it was really interesting because I think that, that's a very particular culture. Okay. First thing the Reuters room is very diverse. Not women lost people call a very diverse. The shed you'll is from the seventy s the shed you'll is from the days when they all were awful night because they were taking drugs and John Belushi would refuse to do any sketches written by women and Gilda Radner kind of go by because she was. Just accepted somehow her because she'd be ordinary because she was Gilda Radner, exactly. So so that shed you'll has persisted an I think it's way to brutal. I really do. An I indeed said that too lawn Michaels said, that's as well as Reuters. You know they're just worked better at night. I said it would try. Tried writing during the day because I've always found. That's how there's just this sense of. Oh, it's this Wild Thing that happens every week and I got there and all these young people, an I'm not young. They was so tired. They was so tired. That was the thing I took away was this exhaustion, the end of twenty and I thought I wonder if that's necessary. I wonder if it's possible to have a shed you'll that doesn't mean that everyone's so exhausted. They can barely move their lips until Saturday night when the adrenaline gets you going. And you, you know, I mean look, I enjoyed the weeks, I did I enjoyed being dragged around the stage by Donahue, just literally dragged me. And then you get dressed like a only and you get thrown on again. And you do on the sketch. Yeah. It was it was. It was. It was sedating because that world. Must have been impossible when you were woman twenty thirty years ago, it's been gang for forty forty years. So yeah, I very, very difficult than I imagined quite difficult now. But I am a polo tells the story in her book about pitching a sketch. They were doing a lot of spoof adverts and she pitched a sketch that was about sanitary, napkins and all the guys, we don't get we don't get it. And she was like, yeah, but half the population will get it. And often you have to ask, who's on your judging committee, and they did it, and it was a big hit. I'm paraphrasing this. Please look in the book, because this might all be wrong. But this is what I remember. And if it isn't what happened it is, what should have happened. So same. But I think often who is on your judging committee who decides what funny is. Oh, absolutely. Because well, I think the guilt feminist has demonstrated it that the experience of women gathers an enormous audience of women, sometimes male comedians asked me, they'll go see crew we. But like they're pissed off. I say women thirsty. Just what we've not been service, we go to the top, and is nothing then. Well, there's lots of jokes about cokes. Bulls is loads of jokes in male comedy about the genitalia. I've noticed over the years, I've noticed that. And I mean, no look fair enough. They're very funny. Again. You know you love you think you've learned to love you've learnt a off in the same ways you've learned that when somebody tells Joe, you can have to laugh at the end of it. Whether it's funny or not because otherwise, you'll hurt their feelings. I think there's definitely that that's partly off because we come back to do that. It's so hard for us. And that one of the things I loved about Catherine playing. Her was being able to tell read Scott's character to shut up, and it works, and he did shot up, and I don't feel bad about it because I couldn't do that in real life. I couldn't possibly do it. I'm pathologically polite. And I couldn't behave like that. It was like having a sort of strange holiday. Yes. It's like Hannah Gadsby saying when she's taken for a month, you know, she says. Oh, no, no, that's fine. That's just five minutes. Like relieve five minutes, I've just feeling like a high in the world. Yes. So there was a lovely twenty eight days that you did the the twentieth day. She says you use money five twenty five days, I'm giving you a luxury is extra three yes. Yeah. Those extra three would have really helped. Yeah. Luxuries twenty five days to just come into the room point to people say you're fired and the release from the politeness of the shoving it down the most of us live with all the time. We'll look, it's a really really successful film, and I found it very cathartic to watch very joyful. Very funny thing that dialogue, very, very, very witty. Sometimes you don't see American films that everyone's laughing about. And you've seen the trailer and the trailer got a three or four funny moments in it, and you watch it, and you'll disappointed by how little wit there, isn't it? And the is comes thick and fast. She's a really good writer, but I will just say again, if you don't go watch it on opening weekend and you don't tweet about it. If you don't hashtag late night movies at late night movie late night. It's just hashtag Nightline. Oh, yeah. Late night. I don't know any of this stuff. So are you going Facebook? It's four slash late. Night, film UK. If you're on Twitter at late night, film, UK, and on Instagram at late night, film UK, but also hashtag late night, film, and Tele real human. That's another thing you can do. I know shocking shocking, if you know, an individual who would like this. What's up them? And just say go on the opening weekend because honestly. If a film about two men in the what place doesn't do. Well, do you know what they determine that film didn't work? They don't say films about men in the workplace. Don't work. Cancel the other films about men in the workplace if a film about women in the workplace doesn't do. Well, do you know what they say, you've gotta have women being romantic, otherwise it won't sell? Honestly. They draw that conclusion so quickly and you then have to wait for a decade, so please, please, please. Please support it. If you want to see more stories like this onscreen I on board. Excellent guilty feminists listeners around the world wherever you are, if you're in the UK, it's June ninth that you'll booking. Tickets full seventh seventh don't do you not because you've, you've missed opening weekend, and you've taken about steer from me, and I will feel positive, I won't sleep. So you've got a book out June seventh or eight get a group of friends together and book out a whole group of seat. It's and go talk about afterwards. Okay. We are all committed to that. You've all seen it. But you could see it again because I think some of you didn't pay so. You didn't pay even if you buy a ticket, and give it to somebody else that would be really, really appreciated. It feels like too late in the day to say that, that was the deal. Now just route. But you know what? I mean. I did you enjoy it. Emerson anything else you want to say that you want to leave on the table that you came say that if you haven't said, no, I've just been listening to you and just been so admiring of what you're doing, which is actually direct positive action. You could remember that Mindy indicating road. This was a diversity higher. Absolutely was. That's why it's so important that we back diversity, either we by inclusion writers that thing that FRANZ has dormant recommended and that you do. What Deb's recommended I'm old and a bit apologetic. So I'm just sitting here going thoughts. Fantastic. That's absolutely exactly what we should be doing. So I'm learning in your wake in your wonderful wake. And let's do this again before too long. Let's do it again. If you're in the industry, start to make movies with different voices and television shows different voices if you'll not support support support finds them out recommend them to each other. Look them out. This is not the only story like this. They're out there. We need to make them popular because they only really can can this filmmakers adult hundred nine hundred not so we need to show them movies like this make money, please go and spread the word. Thank you so so much to everyone here at the pitch central. Thank you. Thank you. A huge huge, thank you to the wonderful, Emma Thompson. Late night on sail in her. You read it absolutely wonderful audience. Let's go and get smashed. We've been the guilty. Doc, being Deborah Francois. Thank you so much. Good night. You have been distinct guilty feminists with me, Denver process, white guess, Kojo's Dame, Emma Thompson. Very special guest, Mindy, Kaeling, recording engineer was Sean music was mall. College would use was Thompson Inskeep in the spontaneity shop, thanks to be toria half. An everyone of entertainment one and pitch how central as well as all of you listening. The more information about this and other episodes visit guilty. Feminists dot com and don't forget to go and see late night. Hey Casey, feminists. Hello. I'm Margaret cable and Smith on Jessica Foschi. You know, us off this coast during the middle of listening to. Yeah. We hit because we want to tell you about a play that we're both in cooled Brexit. Don't be put off by the name. No, it's no might the real Brits. No, it's actually really good. It knows what it is lost an hour and fifteen minutes, rather than a lifetime is until. And this face clever and funny, and it's quite feminist isn't it in the sense that we both of a with. States overthrew in bikinis. I go, I've been out a suit for it. And that's longtime trouser suits us once there were no Scutts yet. Is it good? It's more guilty than feminists say, feel quite sexy in trousers. No, I know it's not used to having any power followers comedians. Accidents a long time ago. I did a law degree. And I've had friends from university see the press pitches for this play and say the road, not take him. And I've lost you. And in a way, I'm basically this is his closest being in this place places. I'll ever get to make my mom happy career. Please come and watch it. Please come and support us. It's brilliant funny clever ever play. I'm this is a special forgetfulness listeners ought to get through any fifteen pounds with awful code Brexit, fifteen yet Goto king's head theatre dot com, the tickets. And we will all you drink software. That's a bit much that way guarantee. No, no guaranteed.

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13 | INTERVIEW 1: Ann Braude

Unobscured

2:16:11 hr | 1 year ago

13 | INTERVIEW 1: Ann Braude

"Welcomed on obscured production of iheartradio Aaron. Minke we begin the interview series on on obscured season two with the phenomenal historian. Dr Anne Brownie. She is senior lecturer on American religious history at Harvard. Divinity school where she directs the Women's Studies in religion program. Dr Brody has published widely on women in American religious life exploring everything from spiritualism to Judaism Christian science since and native American religions. She's an amazing scholar and we're so glad she joined us to talk about spiritualism. The research team found her book radical spirits. It's while they were working on episodes for my other podcast lor needless to say it was one of the inspirations. For this season of an obscured researcher Carl Nella started each historian interview by asking our guests. What meant to be a spiritualist in the nineteenth century America? So Dr Brody's answer to that question is where will begin. This is the UN obscured interview series for season two. I'm Aaron McKie what I would say it meant to be spiritualist. In the nineteenth century was is to be part of a movement that was seeking empirical evidence for the immortality of the soul by communicating with the spirits of the dead and in general that meant communicating with the spirits of the dead through the intervention of a human medium. Really what spiritualists believed they accessed through the medium of a human being who was being used for communication and were the spirits of the dead and The those spirits might be the spirits of deceased relatives or loved ones or friends who had passed to the world beyond they might be public figures or historical figures they could be figures from religious history Or political history they could be Other cultures sure other civilizations they could be what were understood to be the spirits of dead Indians the indigenous inhabitants of the Americas But they were understood to be the spirits of individuals in general that they were seeking to communicate with when people came to these seances. What were they looking for? Many people were looking for consolation. They were looking to be reunited with with a loved one who had been ripped away from them by death. And when often thinks that the appeal of spiritualism ritual Azam would be limited to times when death is very present two times of epidemic or of war and and indeed wars in particular give rise to a lot of interest in spiritualism because young people are our Ripped away suddenly. The the the fabric of reality is really rent by the loss of those we expected expected to be with us. Particularly Children Young men in war loved ones people. Very near and dear who's WHO's lost made reality Unbearable an understandable incomprehensible and the attempt to reconnect with those lost loved. Ones is also oh an attempt to heal the fabric of reality and you notice. I use the present tense. Their communication with the dead is ubiquitous. Everyone does it. It occurs in all times and places at certain periods. It takes a kind kind of form that more than one person experiences and that gives rise to a community of have communication with the dead a community of people who understand this as a goal that they can seek together and that's what spiritualism awesome is in nineteenth century America. It's a new religious movement of people who believe that they can find scientific. Evidence is for the immortality of the soul by communicating with the spirits of the debt And you mentioned that some of those spirits. They're both kind of the lost. I loved ones but some of those spirits are figures like Benjamin Franklin George Washington William Penn Webster Even more recent time you know Henry Henrik Lay Or after his death Theodore Parker Sometimes they were addressing just one or two people in a in a small sands but sometimes they're addressing large crowds through a translator. Chorus got Tell us about spirituous relationship to history. kind of Writ Large Arch Well I'm glad you brought up trance lecturers because I had really only spoken about family seances where people are are seeking communication with an individual from their own life and their own circle and trance. Mediums were public lecturers who gave lectures guided by usually though not always particular spirit sometimes they went into trance. And we're guided. I'd buy a more generalized sense of spirit presence but usually it was an identifiable external intelligence with a specific specific identity who spoke through the medium in a public setting and translate. Sugars are a very important in development in American history because they are the first large group of American women to mount the podium and speak in public black. They're certainly had been other instances of women who had did had done this most of them under some kind of spirit guidance whether it be be the Holy Spirit or spiritual inspiration connected to the Bible but trance speakers. His who saw themselves as communicating messages from spirits. Were the first significant group of American Arken women to go on tour as public lectures and you asked about the spirits who spoke through them in general transfers had particular relationships with particular spirits so that While a public a public figure might deliver a message through a spirit. They usually were figures who came back repeatedly Lee to speak through a specific spirit when public spirits inspired trans lectures. They often delivered communications on on subjects. That they were concerned about during their own lifetime. So in the case of Benjamin Franklin he was a favorite medium For the communication of scientific information and the notion that spirit mediums could communicate. Scientific information was understood as another kind of evidence of spirit presence because Most of the mediums were people who did not have education the ideal medium was the fourteen year old girl. Someone who was understood as being innocent naive And therefore incapable of duplicity. Bliss ity incapable of making up a trans lecture that came through her during In a in a public setting and of course that issue that you just pointed that played a large role in our first season of obscured. Because we were looking at the Salem witch trials and the question of whether the young girls who were claiming afflictions could be witnesses against established church members and leaders in the community as well as kind of outsiders or each other other And I'm thinking about In addition to radical spirits. You've written sisters and saints edited a number of other projects on the religious history of American women How significant is spiritualism as a chapter in American women's history? You just kind of pointed at the the public stage but would you have some more reflections on kind of what's the significance of spiritualism in this kind of long history of American women and religion. Well that's a great great question. I don't think anybody's ever asked me that question really And I talk about it for a long time so you cut me off. If five said enough but in some ways this spirit medium is like a mirror image of the ideal Christian woman at the same time that she pushes the characteristics of the ideal nineteenth century Christian woman to as extreme so you know what sometimes referred to as the cult of true womanhood in the nineteenth century posits the notion and that women by nature are hewer passive and pious and the understanding. There is that women In some ways reflect the qualities polities of a perfect Christian better than men do that they. They are untainted by the the competitive values of the marketplace and of the economic sphere and therefore they Reflect the values of the home the domestic mystic values of Christianity Place of charity of nurture of retreat from the market place the world world of politics where men get dirty through competition and that women rather reflect a place of purity surety where Christianity can blossom so spirit. Mediums pushed this idea to its radical article extreme that if women have these spiritual qualities more than men to then they can sense spirits that they are are are perfectly suited to be vehicles for divine knowledge. Now that's of course. The opposite of what the Christian churches are teaching Ching particularly the established churches that recognize the authority of Education The authority of Scripture the authority of Apostolic Stall Excess Session the notion that priesthood in the Catholic or Piscopo Church for example is passed from man to man through the laying on of hands back to Christ and this and this uninterrupted lineage of Male L. Religious Authority into which no women have ever intervened the idea of the spirit medium presents us with a very very different possibility of religious authority if women could convey spirituality because of their innocence essence. You know I've met mediums. Who are alive today who give the same feeling of of personalities where there's space for other things to pass through and we have many other psychological terms that we might use to describe that in this day and age but is very close to the idea of a a young girl who doesn't present impediments adamant to an external intelligence that wants to use her as a vehicle for communication spiritualism uses concepts experiences that derive from the history of Christianity and from Christian experience that are related to gender and it kind of just pushes them a little too far in this direction or that direction until until they no longer qualify as Orthodox Christianity and so- spiritualism in some sense tells us where the limits are of Orthodoxy? The limits of what's acceptable for Christians. Because after all Christians are taught in many contexts that they should try to communicate with benevolent spirits. Who are looking after them who are looking down from heaven to lead them in positive directions and whether they're formal field logical doctrines of their religions teach that or not popular culture teaches teaches that and it imbues Christianity? Very broadly in practical settings in in the personal experience of Popular Christianity. So the ideas of spiritualism should not be so foreign to Christians and in many any cases they're not in many cases people who are church members Even members of other religions are also participating in in communication with spirits even though it formerly formally contradicts the doctrines of their faith there a number of traditions within Christianity. That address the communion of saints in some way right or That's right yeah. Yeah you mentioned the way that spiritualism kind of explorers or pushes the boundaries of Orthodoxy. Sometimes leaps over them In in the decades before There was the kind of formalization of what is modern spiritualism in the late eighteen forties There are some other pressures on American Christianity. The American religion Some historians talk about the significance of Jacksonian Democracy for American life in the decades before spiritualism arrived Can you address. Maybe what we mean by Jacksonian democracy and what influence it had on American religion and kind of the twenties and thirties Well I won't address Jacksonian Democracy Macher AC- because I will not tread into political history Going outside my expertise however the the period of Of the eighteen twenties and thirties is known as the second grade awakening and it sometimes referred to as the period of the democratization the station of American religion when we see Religious Authority and experience sweeping the country through revivals five dollars and we see a declining emphasis on an educated clergy on religious hierarchies on religious education occasion and an increasing emphasis on religious experience that is accessible to any individual Anyone who accepts cries accepts their sinfulness and their need of Christ Salvation So the second grade awakening is a period of mass revivals and That's also a kind of preparation for spiritualism because of it it's a religiously religiously democratizing impulse. That's fantastic There were also movements in science and in thinking about the human person in the human mind through mesmerized animal magnetism some of those things that laid the groundwork for magnetic trances and clairvoyance But there were also influences in communications technology that were changing the way people were thinking about communicating across distances. And you talk about Women being attuned to the spirits in a way that men weren't can you talk a little bit about Maybe the way that changes in thinking about the human mind and what was possible with technology also laid the groundwork for spiritualists thinking and practice. You have to remember the shock of technological advance electricity. The Telegraph Raff. These things were like magic for a society in which they had not previously been existed or known and they were poorly understood and As they came to be introduced as ideas before people witnessed them personally. It was as plausible all that. There could be a spiritual telegraph that would connect communication through human mediums with the spirits of the dead as that there could be a telegraph that would send communications across the country without anybody being able to hear them or see them and it. I don't think it's any coincidence. That the first spirit messages that were communicated through the Fox sisters were communicated by raps raps on the table on the furniture on the wall on the floor. which if you think about that? It sounds like Telegraph allographs tapping out code. And the the first seances were conducted by writing the alphabet out on apiece of paper and the person who was running? The SEON would pass their hands over the alphabet alphabet until wraps were heard and then stop on that letter and write that letter down during some of the first communications. They had a hard time time separating these letters that they received in this way into words so it wasn't always clear. What the messages were so if you think about about this it's a it's a technology that is kind of mimicking and inspired by the new technologies of Electricity and the Telegraph? They're trying to do something very similar but with Spirit pepper and if you think about it it's kind of boring to and what that informs me of love is the great hunger for spirit communication if you think about people and these they have other things to do but they are sitting around a table thing how long it took to get a spirit message by passing your hands over the alphabet until you heard wraps at a single letter then you had to repeat that process maybe fifty or a hundred times to get a brief spirit what message and meanwhile you're kind of hoping that you have a human medium who will be an effective vehicle for communication nation. You're hoping that you have created the right atmosphere. In the seance room that will make a spirit comfortable to communicate and confident that this is a medium through which they can communicate an audience that will be receptive to their message. So you have a lot going on and just think about I mean this is we tend to think of seances as a parlor game and certainly certainly they could become that and they did become that a popular entertainment but the first sand says. I don't think we're games At all I think they show us the deep deep hunger to communicate with the spirits of the dead the deep hunger to be we reconnected with loved ones that we have lost and the deep hunger for knowledge of the divine for knowledge of what will happen after we die And you mentioned the Fox sisters Before we get there Very very very soon before Andrew Jackson Davis the poughkeepsie seer. publishes on Hormonal Philosophy. And you mentioned and the trying to get the atmosphere right conducive to spirit communication and the idea of harmony becomes very important to spiritualists practice and belief life Can you talk a little bit about injured. Jackson Davis and how his ideas were significant in his trances. Were significant in a way that distinguished them a little a bit from say the Shaker visionaries or other transfer clairvoyance experiences that preceded him. So Andrew Jackson Davis the poughkeepsie seer. The Prophet of the harmonium philosophy was quite different from this Shaker. Visionaries who preceded him. They were Seeking seeking messages or receiving messages whether they sought them or not in the context of community gathered around a single figure figure mother. Ann Lee Andrew Jackson Davis didn't have that kind of community around him. He tried to create it but he never had that sense of authority that mother and did or the sense of creating a community that would live by a set set of agreed upon rules so he was really just preaching this harmonious philosophy to like minded individuals US wherever he might find them and I wonder whether his philosophy would have caught on in the way that it did and it certainly did did catch on in a very powerful way but I wonder if it would have done that without the Fox sisters because the Fox sisters brought got a kind of popular accessibility to spirit communication whereas Andrew Jackson Davis preached a harmonium philosophy. That made room for spirit communication but placed it in a much broader context. He the spirit who spoke spoke through him was the spirit of Emanuel Swedenborg and Swedenborg Vision which Andrew Jackson Jackson Davis was inspired by described a world of spheres. Feeding Swedenborg. Had I've been involved in the mining industry and he understood the world in terms of levels both levels under the ground around and levels fears above the ground that are through which the soul advances in its journey toward heaven so there's a notion of progression and this is something that Andrew Jackson Davis wrote about that people found very meaningful the idea that the soul continues to progress after death where Orthodox calvinism and Protestant faith taught that whatever virtue you had accomplished in your life at the moment of death or lack of virtue determine your fate for eternity that you would either. There'd be damned or you would be blessed to sit at the right hand of God for eternity and saved there by from the flames of hell and eternal suffering suffering. You would go to one of those two places. According to the state of your soul at the time of death this was a source of huge anxiety -iety to family members who might not have known the state of their loved ones soul. At the moment of death. They might not have felt confident. Incident that their loved one was among the elect who had been selected by God to enjoy his blessings forever and be reunited with their family in heaven. So this is a source of huge anxiety and enter Jackson Davis address arrest that anxiety with the idea building on Swedenborg that the soul can continue to progress in grace following death and many spirit messages described this so for example people who communicated with children who had been lost some of them even before the age of being able to speak not to mention before the age of reason of knowing the difference between right and wrong. How could you know what the fate of such child would be if they couldn't choose whether to do good or bill? So families had a lot of anxiety about this and the notion that a child could be continue to progress after death allowed allowed people to hear spirit messages from their deceased beloved babies and children who could describe to them how they continued and you to develop continued to learn were educated. Learn to read and write and develop in all kinds of ways after deaf jeff and usually these messages of consolation also assured the parent or the survivor that the deceased spirit continued to care about them after death. A particularly consoling idea for the parents of of children who had been lost before they could express gratitude or or fealty or loyalty Orlov to the parents who loved them so much. And you mentioned that in the second grade awakening period and There are multiple ways in which Christianity is fragmenting. I think there's the I think it's Emerson or maybe it's the row. Who says the stern they have all been pulverized right and so you're looking at an American religious landscape that includes now methodists and universalist send shakers shakers and quakers and Baptists and there are these practices in the in the in the period like camp meetings and circuit preaching in a new privileging of of religious enthusiasm? And how did this kind of Osei riotous religious atmosphere You mentioned this a little bit. Maybe a couple more of reflections on how it opened a space for spiritualism and maybe which traditions which theological traditions do you see the as the strongest influences on spiritualism origin. Well you would think that those who were involved in what you called riotous us. Expressions of spirituality might be the most likely to give birth to spiritualists communication. Not So oh it was more the quiet. Faiths it was quaker Azam unitarians and universal us who were apt to explore spiritualism ritualised some quakers in particular had already a notion that the individual contains within in themselves a perfect transcript of ultimate truth that each individual is a transcript of the mind of God and so we should look within ourselves to know the mind of God and that notion of white quakers called the inner light was very close to what spiritualists Seles would do when they looked to individual mediums to hear the voices of spirits to hear spiritual knowledge Coming from an individual and the idea that an individual medium could Look look within themselves. Could so the the the saints had some commonalities with a quaker meeting where quakers occur. Sit In silence to await the Voice of God. That's what spiritualists are doing all. So they're waiting for a spirit voice they now. quakers would never be so rude as to do what is often done in a spiritualist church service service or SEANCE which is to boldly ask. Are there any. Are there any spirits present who wish to communicate spirituous do not wait in silence as quakers might they create create the conditions to promote spirit communication But it's interesting that they do view. Silence Elands quiet. Perhaps preceding by preceded him singing or prayers that would create the On beyond the atmosphere in which spirit would feel comfortable communicating. Let's go to talking about one of those. Particular quakers Lakers. Who is a remarkable historical figure that I had never heard mentioned or addressed in any of the histories that I'd read? But who just stands out as Sochi so key to a number of movements. I'm talking about any post Nancy who was just published fantastic biography of her called radical friend But I would love to hear your reflections on Amy Post as a quaker in Rochester New York. Because she's the she's at the center of love Women's rights conventions. She's helping to run the underground railroad through Rochester and she's there to be the midwife for spiritualism. Can you tell us a little bit about Amy Post. Absolutely amy post is one of my favorite historical characters. She was in the room where it happened. Not just for spiritualism but but for so many new developments in radical radical religion in the area of Rochester New York and she he was a critical figure in spiritualism because of the degree of respect that she commanded so she became kind of a mentor mentor to the Fox sisters she lent credibility to the development of spiritualism by her friendship and ship with the Fox sisters and also by her By the fact that spiritualism spread through her network work of radical quakers and these were quakers who were champing at the limits of quaker. ISM who were. We're not content to observe the restrictions that the Society of friends placed on them. They were not content intent to restrict their friendships to members of the Society of friends. They were not content to restrict their their religious practices to members of their own faith and spiritualism helped them Push the push. The limits of what the quaker faith permitted both socially through their organization and who they could communicate. Hey wait with. But also religiously what. The sources could be of spirit knowledge. So she's in Rochester. New York Could you briefly describe what made Rochester New York. The right place to serve as kind of nerve center not just for spiritualism but the women's movement and and some of these other things that were going on at the same time what made Rochester. The place where things arrived in sprang out from Rochester. Chester with that area was called the burned over district upstate. New York was known as the burned over district in the early nineteenth at century. And what that meant is that it had been burned over by the spirit that waves of the flames of revival had passed us through upstate. New York leaving in their wake newly organized a fan jellicoe churches and religious communion Z- mormonism seventh day adventists new religious developments That seem to find route and receptivity in that arena. It's no coincidence that upstate New York and Seneca falls balls in particular which is A small village not far from Rochester. It's no coincidence that these areas gave birth both to spiritualism spiritualism and to the women's rights movement and there were a lot of individuals who participated in the very formative indiv- moments and events of both these two movements many of these people were involved in the abolition abolition movement. Many of them were involved in quaker. Networks they were people who were pressing the idea of individual agency so that they really Press the idea of the autonomy of the individual vitual in both spiritual and political sense. So this is what we see in the radical wing of the abolition movement. Moment people like William Lloyd Garrison who really saw abolition as an extension of of the idea that it is heretical for one individual to assert ownership over another individual because because they are asserting the authority of God over one of God's creatures and Only God has the authority or the ability to hold that control and human beings be they white or black be they men or women must ultimately place their allegiance in God alone and not to any human master whether it be a slave master whether it be a priest or minister whether it be a husband who had authority legal legal authority over his wife in almost every way at this time he owned. His wife's property had authority over her physical person over her children over where she lived. And all these questionings of personal and religious authority were intertwined aligned so that the appeal of form of religiosity that could cut through all forms of religious authority by saying you the the individual or if not you then. The fourteen year old girl in your household can cut through the structures of religious authority. You don't don't have to ask a minister. You don't have to ask your Sunday schoolteacher. You don't have to even consult the authority of the Bible. You can learn indirectly what the divine order is what happens when we die. You can find out directly you can have direct knowledge knowledge of ultimate truth and in eighteen. Forty Eight Eighteen forty thirty eight is a is a is a key year Kenya. Frederick Douglass and William C no arrive in Rochester to watch the North Star and they share an office With Amy Post and the New York Slavery Society right but more happens in eighteen forty eight in the history of the women's rights movement and in the history. Rio Spiritualism can you maybe give us a capsule of those events what happens in eighteen forty eight eighteen forty eight is a pivotal little year in many many arenas specifically in relation to spiritualism and women's rights eighteen forty eight is when the Fox sisters. I here the wrappings that they attribute to the spirit of a dead peddler they hear wrappings on the walls and furniture of their small cottage in in Hinesville New York and that when it is taken seriously by adults ultimately gives rise to the spiritualist virtuous movement eighteen forty eight is also when the first women's rights convention is called in Seneca Falls New York by Lucretia Mott and and Elizabeth Cady Stanton and the very table where they write the famous declaration of sentiments based on the Declaration of independence. Indi- that gives the first real statement of women's rights in North America. That table which is now in the Smithsonian had had been rocked by spirits it had been The wraps had wrapped on that small Mahogany table and and many of the same people were present at both of these events. You have to remember that the Seneca Falls Convention when Lucretia Mott and Elizabeth Katie. I Stanton put out the call for the Seneca Falls Convention an unprecedented call. It was to discuss the civil the political and religious rights of women. Now what are religious right and who cares about religious rights. Well they did. They were just as concerned with their rights in their religious spheres as in the civic and political spheres. They cared about whether they could vote in their churches as much as whether they could vote for the school board or The Senate and they were are excluded from Les writes in the Churches in the same way that they were excluded from voting rights and civil society they were excluded. Looted from ordination in the church is the same way. They were excluded from elective office. In Civil Society so religious rites offered direct parallels. They were excluded from religious education from seminaries and Bible scholarship the same. I'm way that they were excluded from law schools and secular colleges so there was an exact parallel that was discussed at Seneca falls and the Seneca Falls Convention declared that when men usurp the rights rights of authority in the church by excluding women from the clergy and from religious office that they step into into the place of God by excluding women from religious rights. So we often think of Seneca falls us as the birth of the Women's suffrage movement. In fact women's suffrage was very controversial proposition at Seneca falls and not everyone supported it it was ultimately included but it was hotly debated and religious rights. I'm sure we're also controversy`l seal but no more so than women's suffrage and we don't think of Seneca falls so much as the birthplace of religious rights but when they came to write the history of women's suffrage they included those developments and in many religious documents documents for example the fiftieth anniversary history of the Women's Missionary Movement traces its origins to the Seneca Falls Convention attention and to the women's rights movement that they saw that as the point of origin for women demanding equality in the churches coaches and in the religious sphere. What is it that takes what starts out? It's just kind of a neighborhood kerfluffle where the the Fox parents talking with their daughters and get some neighbors to come and hear this sound and try to figure out what it is. What takes that neighborhood event into into the public sphere and in and forms it into a new religious movement? How does it grow so fast? Well there's several answers to that questioned. The most immediate one is the post family. Amy and Isaac Post who took the Fox sisters into their home and gave them credibility and they were so much at the network at. They were so much at the node. Point of this large network of abolitionist radical reformers radical quakers at Information spread quickly through them but it spread the faster than that once. The News of the spirit wrappings was out and once adults had taken it seriously and that is a key point. I Komo personally actually. This is not a personal conviction. It's my conviction as a historian. Sure my own view view is that there is too much emphasis on the Fox sisters in the history of spiritualism. They are unimportant moment and they are Their initial wrappings did give birth to a new religious movement but if the adults around them had had not taken this seriously as spirit communication it would have made no difference that these adolescent girls heard these wrap things and attributed them to a dead peddler. It would've made no difference if adults hadn't taken them seriously if adults who were well respected and and were known for their religious piety hadn't taken them seriously. It would have made no difference but once that happened happen once this had been taken seriously by adults spirit. Communication addressed a hunger and it's possible will the democratization of spirituality in the second grade awakening loosened up the receptivity of the American public. So that they were willing to hear spirit communication from sources that had not been previously considered credible yet there were other kinds of hungers that spiritualism was addressing as well the hunger for consolation. This this is a time when families are becoming more connected to younger children. Infant mortality Talapity is on the decline and therefore one can afford to become more invested in one's love for for an infant child or a young child even though the mortality rate before five years old continued to be higher than after that so losing. A young child was often in the purview of women. Women were the attendance of both birth and death and and children died in their arms at home and so women as they came to place more hope that their children might might survive. Were more and more devastated by their loss and looked for a form of consolation after their death. There's another cultural Ah Sports or social movement It's important in this era that we're going to explore or that we we are are exploring the show That is part of that. Network that spread spiritualism that's the utopian the radical Utopian Movement does radical utopians. Were on the ground floor with spiritualism so to speak Could you briefly describe the the religious impulse behind many of the a utopian communities like Northampton and hope Dale and fruit lends to Brook Farm. There was a religious impulse behind this this movement in these communities that were being founded how important worthy Utopian collectives for spreading spiritualism in your view well the Utopian communities all had a religious impulse and they were all different many of a charismatic leader who had a religious just or Utopian vision that was guiding The particular community Formation Hope Dale which was one of the most important for the spread of spiritualism was considered a community based on what they called Practical Christian socialism and of course a communitarian ideal and socialist ideal. Go Hand in hand. Because of the idea of shared property holding property operating in common is a common element of Utopian settlements and believe me. Socialism is a lot easier if you have a religious motivation without a religious motive not that many people are willing to share property or to live in harmony any to to place their desires as individuals and remember the American constitution enshrines property as an individual right that that is equivalent to the pursuit of happiness so To give up the notion that probe individual property equals happiness us. You have to be very deeply committed and piety religious fervor go a long way towards making that possible bowl. Of course the quakers are the most successful communitarian religious experiment in American history. That is beyond the Communities Communities of Roman Catholic religious orders Utopian communities are looking for true. They are composed of zealous people. Deeply committed added to the pursuit of truth and spiritualism offers a a vehicle for truth that is is omnipresent. Truth is always available if you have access to a spirit medium spirit might speak through them at any time time and it's who's ready to sacrifice and dedicate their life to zealous pursuit of truth. It's very very appealing to have access to spirit. Communication so spiritualism grows and and gathers followers through the networks of of radicals and Utopians. You know that network that amy post was at this important point in But it also inspires serious the opposition Pretty early on and then through its growth It was gathering members but it was also making enemies Can you talk a little bit about the the opposition to spiritualism and maybe If any come to mind were the antagonists of spiritualism in the early days all of the things that made spiritualism attractive to radicals made it abhorrent to conservatives social. Oh political and theological and. I shouldn't even say they need to even be theological conservatives. They need only the people committed to religious institutions because spiritualism is really a form of religious anarchy if anyone can make contact with the spirits of the dead. You don't need religious authority. You don't need a religious hierarchy. You don't need the authority of the Bible you can. You can go directly yourself or through a medium to religious religious authority that has the potential to undercut all kinds of institutional authority religious and otherwise spirits. writs tend to be an archaic. Not all of them but they have that potential because they could say anything and they can disagree with each other. If you don't have a scripture a written scripture in which doctrine is recorded what is to keep spirits from spouting outing different doctrines at different times and places. Nothing and they did and They often spirits often affirmed firmed political or social views of the mediums or their communities and they have the potential for very radical communities particularly communities that were questioning the legitimacy of traditional marriage that were questioning traditional gender hierarchies spirits had the potential to affirm the religious validity of departures that were extremely threatening to established faiths and they did So free love is one of the moments that is often associated with spiritualism and that was anathema to establish Christian church which saw the sanctity of marriage as the bulwark of society and Something that the church gives birth to sanctifies and depends on so questioning of the Ah Traditional view of marriage was extremely threatening spiritualists a spouse the idea of spiritual affinity and I. I don't want to attribute this to all spiritualists because they were not all equally social social radicals Some could be quite conservative. Socially but social radicals tended to be spiritualists and they found in spiritualism originalism and in the idea of spiritual affinity support for the abrogation of traditional marriage. The idea of spiritual affinity was the idea that we have one ordained match in spirit life life and that if we are if we marry someone who is not are true spirit match are true spirit affinity. That marriage is immoral and so if a woman should be forced into marriage or should voluntarily marry a for reasons other than true love then. Her marriage was illegitimate and the same. For a man so spiritualists spiritualists saw the way that women were forced into marriage by economic necessity as a religious impropriety. Because it was coming between the natural attraction of a man and a woman that is ordained by God to you say that they could be joined by the state and that a husband could be given legal access to his wife's body by a ceremony ceremony of the Church and the state whether or not she felt in her soul in her being a spiritual affinity affinity for that man that made her want to unite with him and with his body in Sexual Congress. So you can start to hear. You're much of American society getting upset. It's not hard to see how these very controversial and non-conforming ideas were upsetting to the majority of religious groups and to WHO societies that saw church and state and family as mutually supporting institutions. uh-huh let's let's follow this line for a few minutes because in the lives of some of the prominent spiritualist mediums like Corres- Scott Patch And Victoria Woodhull They were not just hearing these doctrines but living through often often brutal marriages Can you talk a little bit about kind of the maybe a little more about the state of marriage kind out of it. mid-century and Maybe what they meant by free love because maybe our ideas are a little more inflicted by maybe the nineteen seventies. Then what a spiritualist would mean by free love In the in the eighteen forties fifties sixties seventies. That's absolutely right. The idea of free love in the nineteenth century was very limited because it was not an idea idea that said you should be able to have sex with whomever you please was not by a long shot. The idea of free love is that you should be spiritually spiritually free to love your true affinity whether you are legally married to that person or not so so the freedom to love that was espoused by nineteenth century free love addict. Advocates was a freedom of the individual and it gave particularly women freedoms that they did not have under the law. What free love meant in the nineteenth century entry and to most spiritualist advocates? was that if a woman did not feel spiritual affinity to her husband. At that time. She had no obligation to have sexual relations with him. She had full autonomy over her the whole being and she needed to determine for herself whether the person Sun her husband or not who join with her sexually was her true affinity or not art and spirituous advocates. Were very harsh particularly women reformers. We're very very harsh. On and men who complained that they should be able to have sex out of wedlock because they were bound in marriage to someone who was not their true affinity vanity and they had met an unmarried woman who was their true affinity. Well women's spiritualists reformers had no time time for this sort of thing at all. They were very very firm with the idea. That if you are married to someone who is not your spiritual affinity eighty you are committing a crime of the spirit and you need to come forward in the light of day and declare that and declare who your spiritual who'll affinity is so they were advocates of divorce and some of the early which was not readily available Andrew Jackson Davis's wife. Mary loved Davis was married at the time that they met. And she moved to Indiana to receive a divorce a legal divorce and That was the only place where she could do that at that time but to get the divorce in order to be able to unite with her spiritual affinity she risked the custody of her children and she risked never for seeing her children again and women had no guarantee of custody which was usually understood to go with the father at that time. So this was not a An opera casual liaison at least that is not how the women reformers understood it. Andrew Jackson self later discovered that the woman who had been his partner partner on the spirit on the spiritualist lecture circuit for so long and his partner in reform the beloved reformer Mary. We Love Davis. He later concluded that she was not his true affinity and that he wanted to sever his relation with her and Mary a younger occur. Woman spiritualists were shocked by this and it really It was very detrimental to Andrew Jackson. Davis Davis is standing in the community. And it gives you some of the irony of these radical ideas that sexual. We'll liberation in the nineteenth century was a much more complicated idea given the legal climate regarding divorce. Sir Regarding child custody and the lack of birth control it was not what we think of as the sexual freedoms of the nineteen sixties and seventies Sunday Let's keep talking gender and power a little bit shows. there are mediums as spiritualism grows Like the Fox sisters sisters Corre Victoria Emma Britain who who comes to the United States has emma harding before she's married There are also mediums like Andrew Jackson and Davis or Daniel Douglas whom How was were the experiences of male and female mediums different in the eighteen eighteen fifties? Certainly there is a stereotype that the passivity of the female medium could make her a victim of a A male merchandiser and there were examples of this Cora. Daniels a I it's hard to know what to call her chorus Scott Hatch tappin Daniels Richmond to use all of her four married names as well as her Unmarried name Scott under which she became. I entered the public record as a a public medium Her marital history encompasses just about every possibility of the relationship between a female medium and a husband or A male figure. Her first husband was a promoter. Who Really was much older than her and wanted to be her manager. She was very appealing and successful public medium trance speaker. She had beautiful golden curls and She was very popular. You're on the lecture circuit. She had goldenvoice a silver tongue and people flocked to her public performances. She was written about in the newspaper and she was enormously desirable and appealing figure and her first husband husband did to some extent take financial advantage of that And that became a stereotype of the innocent young one woman who is subject to spirit control and to the control of domineering mail manager who will exploited lead. Her talents Her subsequent husbands were quite different her next to husbands her second and third husbands spins were reformers they were people who traveled with her on reform circuits. They were both involved with both abolition. Listen and Indian rights and They really saw their marriages to her Part of their reform activism activism and they traveled with hers as partners on the Reform Circuit So they were kind of peers cheers then. Her fourth husband Richmond really was in the service of her medium ship and he published volumes and volumes of her spirit lectures he employed typography to take down what she said in Trans Trans and To try to ride it out and he prepared his volumes and volumes of her spirit. Lectures xers for publications so he really devoted himself to promoting her mediums ship not to exploit it but out of respect for what she had accomplished by this time she was a mature woman. Well respected nationally as a leader in spiritualism and he married her with knowing that that's who he was marrying very very powerful woman and leader well known on the public platform. Another another woman whose story we're following through on obscured is Emma harding Britain She begins her life performing music as a young woman. makes contact in occult circles playing music for their for their meetings in music halls in in in France and in England then comes United States and performs on the stage before. There's some testimony that she was converted to spiritualism John. CONKLIN SEANCE and Conklin and we follow it to the White House Later on in our story But she gives us a look at someone who came from performing on stage to spiritualist medium ship. Can you talk a little bit about the way that her life it gives us a glimpse into that side of spiritualism in public performance spirit. Mediums could be subjected to really really dreadful test conditions and because they depended on passivity to allow spirits. It's to communicate through them. They often found themselves in positions where they could be exploited. They were tied up the placed in bags At nail that were nailed to the ground in order to create what we're called test conditions where they could not fraudulently communicate with spirits The idea of a test takes us back to the idea of spiritualism as scientific investigation. So they're trying to. They're trying to construct conditions for a laboratory experiment where they're controlling the variables and controlling the variables could mean subjecting objecting a lone woman to very dire physical constraints the other point of similarity ready between a spirit medium particularly a trance speaker and former is that it. It was okay to look at them. Spirit mediums trance lecturers were often the first woman that people in the towns where they spoke had seen ascend. The public platform remember that the theater was not a morally morally neutral environment. Women of the theater were considered to be public women. They were considered to be women of if the night and not Not Necessarily Women of the moral caliber that one would meet at once. Church or want ones son to marry. Idea of a woman appearing in public was breach of protocol so the very right some of the early women who made public statements and became known for them in the nineteenth century would give them to their brothers others to read because they did not want to appear in public they did not want to be the object of the male gaze. They did not want not to be in what was at that. Time called a promiscuous assembly. That is an assembly of men and women where men could look at women freely. Women were considered to be appropriate to the private sphere to the sphere of the home of the Protections of domesticity and being public public woman was often another one word for a prostitute. That is there was a moral equivalence between a woman being in public rather than private and selling her body so women. Mediums walked a delicate line between maintaining their moral stager her which they felt very strongly about because to be a vehicle for spirit communication. One had to maintain one's purity so that one could be an an appropriate vehicle for spirit a spirit. A pure spirit would not want to communicate through a person who is not pure in mind in heart and soul so the purity of the medium was very very very important and it was a little bit suspect if a woman ascended the public platform to speak in public but trance speakers had a kind of out that other women didn't have if they spoke in public because transport workers were not claiming to speak for themselves. They were claiming that this was an external intelligence. Speaking through them and intelligence. They did not control so they were not speaking through their own authority ready. They were not speaking on their own authority. It was one else's authority that was so they were not breaking the taboos of propriety that a woman should not speak in public in the same way that an actress was who appeared on stage in in the theater or an abolitionist lecturer. Remember the first women who spoke as abolitionists. The grim key sisters had rotten fruit thrown at them because of the scandal of a woman preaching in public. It was considered to be immoral so when spirit mediums spoke in public they were in this kind of intermediate space where they were not speaking for themselves. They were speaking speaking for someone else. Another one of the amazing people that were following with this story is sojourner truth and she's a public speaker. Can you talk a little bit about the dynamics of speaking in public for her well sojourner truth really draws is our attention to the extent to which race contributes to the construction of femininity unity. Sojourner truth wasn't subject to the norms of femininity because she was not granted granted the privileges of feminine. Andy as someone who had been enslaved as someone who had been in domestic service As someone who lacked legal rights as an African American She did not have the privileges that that Christian morality ostensibly accorded to women so her blackness conflicted with the norms of femininity that were accepted at this period in the minds of those who refuse to accord her. Those privileges sojourner truth both had other sources of strength to appeal to an insole Turner. Truth who is such a fascinating figure. We see the intersection section of a number of streams that are intermingling in American religion at this time for one thing we see the impetus The the way that African traditions come in through the African American population And how African traditions come spirit presence is a point of intersection. The section between American spiritualism and many of the traditions that came with enslaved Africans to the new world where where the idea of spirit presents the idea of communication with with ancestors is very much part of many many African traditional practices in sojourner truth. We see someone who Has African traditions additions as part of her heritage who is exposed early in her life to the proliferation of Christianity's he's that is happening in the burned over period who becomes ensconced in a a community city of with a charismatic figure who is attracting people to all kinds of novel ideas but ultimately ultimately she becomes a spiritualist and she does that when she is a public figure so for so Turner Truth. She's been through a number uh of parts of her religious evolution already. By the time she encounters spiritualism but it intersects with her role as a reformer and with the reform communities that she is part of so for her she. Interestingly is someone who shows a different kind of vulnerability that spiritualism can address whereas white women could be empowered by spirits to do things that they were in considered incapable of because of their innocence. Sojourner truth was empowered to do things that she was considered incapable of because of stereotypes about black femininity and about blackness and about her ignorance her presumed ignorance as has a presumed illiterate black person. So spirits could empower her to do things. She was assumed to be incapable of because of her lack of access to education and the authority of education just as the young girl might draw. Aw on Spirit Authority. Because she was uneducated like a she didn't have the education that someone with biblical learning or ministerial surreal. Training would have someone who was African. American was also barred from those same kind of opportunities that an adolescent lesson girl was and like an analyst girl African Americans were considered to be less governed by rationality which was considered to be incompatible with medium ship. Masculinity education was considered to make the personality to organized for a spirit to use you as a via call but blackness femininity youth ignorance ignorance innocent. These were all qualifications for spirit medium ship. Could you say a bit more about down. What black spiritualist like sojourner truth or Harry Jacobs or Harriet? Wilson would have faced in even in abolitionist circles and Utopian and reformist movements There were forces at work in these movements that maintained racist attitudes and relationships They face racism and bigotry even among other abolitionists. There's been some good writing about the way that There medium ship was in conflict with even these new you ideas of authority and hierarchy. Do you have any comments on that. That you could offer spiritualism provided the opportunity to cut through any kind of structure of authority be it political authority the Authority of gender hierarchy the authority of racial hierarchy the authorities of the slave system of human bondage the authority of the state the Authority of the Church The authority of the Bible of the clergy all of these structures of authority presented opportunities for spiritualism to cut through them so somebody who is suffering under any any of these forms of authority could be empowered by spirit to oppose them and to be liberated from them. Now there is no reason to think that someone who was liberated by the spirit from one source of authority wouldn't necessarily see the harm or the hierarchy or the immorality of all sources of authority in fact those who said that that all sources of authority art equally challenged by spiritualism were the most controversial those were the figures who challenged the authority of marital bonds of private property of all kinds of controversial things. So you can see how there there is gradation that spiritual might spiritualism might empower. You just cut through one source of authority or fifteen and there's GonNa be people everywhere on that continuum I don't find it a bit. Surprising that spiritualists and abolitionists were not completely liberated from all sources of hierarchy. In fact. I don't believe that any human being is I believe that. A Hundred Years Years from now whatever sources of authority or oppression we are blind to today. The historians of those next next generations will be critiquing. The people who think they're so woke today For whatever it is that we are blind to buy our own circumstances that was certainly the case for the abolitionists and the reformers of the nineteenth century For someone like Harriet. Harriet Jacobs spiritualists networks would provide communities where she would find some sympathetic people. Well some people who accept her medium ship who were willing to follow her leadership who were willing to support her in her spiritual spiritual quest but not all whereas in another environment everyone would have opposed her. Spiritualism was often positioned At as an interesting mid point between to put it crudely faith and science. I mean we've talked a little bit about that already. empiricism and Believe in the spirits kind of touching on technology that kind of thing For believers kind of offered empirical proofs proofs for belief in the spirit world for materialists or religious dissenters. It was a you know a phenomenon of the natural world or maybe seeing a little bit differently early could you describe whether this kind of limited zone or this this space that spiritualism occupies was it more of an asset set or a liability for spiritualists in the eighteen fifties. Well that's a fascinating question. There are many scientists who were were deeply committed to investigating spiritual communication and many scientists who were deeply. Invested in it societies for psychical recall research were founded both in the United States and in Great Britain and in Europe and these were composed of scientifically minded the people including many scientists who were committed to exploring the possibility of spirit communication under very strict test conditions. I was it an asset or a liability. I don't really know how to answer that. Because many scientists are people all of faith many scientists both then and today C. S. sympathy between scientific inquiry and religious faith they they see the miraculous -ness of God's creation as the subject of scientific inquiry. And something that is imbued with natural laws that can be discovered through scientific investigation. So there's always been a mix of so and faith I don't think that middle space will ever disappear and certainly many religious just figures have viewed scientific inquiry and continue to do so as a path to the discovery of God's law aw and the intricacy and miraculous -ness of creation that embodies the natural law of of Uh of God's mind We talked earlier about Some of the opposition to spiritualism that would be mustered through the church theologically illogically Or we talked about it. In terms of conservatism of wanting to defend the the borders the margins of what was a traditional hierarchy But there were other kinds of antagonisms to spiritualism maybe out of those motives but that took the form of sometimes antagonistic investigations. How did spiritualists react when in Say the the Fox sisters relative. Mrs Culver published an account of Maggie admitting in eighteen fifties that wraps were staged or To to something like the eighteen fifty one investigation by the Buffalo University Faculty after which professors published a report. That said the girls were making the sounds popping. The joints What kind of affected these approaches to spiritualism that we're kind of exposures Or something like that What did this early negative press What influence did it have on spiritualism movement because spiritualism is a religion that never had an orthodoxy or a religious this hierarchy? That could say who's in and WHO's out spiritualists. Were really free to respond in any way that they wanted should. Certainly these exposures created a crisis of faith for some people for some people. It's simply meant that while those mediums were not genuine it was worth continuing their investigations until they were satisfied that they found medium. Who was genuine and fraud is a very fraught subject in spiritualism because there are no question that there have been fraudulent mediums who perpetrated deception on on the public and profited by it and that there have been gullible people who were embarrassed and to serviced by fraudulent mediums idioms? Now that is also true of many professions law and medicine for example Not to mention politics provides opportunities for deception and and doublespeak and misrepresentation. Does that mean that all participants in don't have those motives An- are dishonest. These are the questions that spiritualist asked about their mediums and to my mind as a historian I feel completely confident in saying that the majority of mediums idioms were absolutely sincere in their belief that they were channeling communications from the spirits of the dead. I I do not believe that the American public is gullible enough or that. There are enough good liars to create a movement of this size and impact and durability solely through through fraud you also had some antagonism from the press The New York Times often published mocking knocking articles about spiritualism the Boston career muster the forces of the academy against spiritualism and hosted their own investigation with Harvard Faculty But in many other cases spiritualists spiritualists had allies in the mainstream press Horace Greeley was Famously a spiritualist and and spiritualists themselves often elected the a chance to spread their message through journalism How important was spiritualist use of periodicals for the movement? Well well you just come on one of my favorite topics. The the the spiritualist press of the nineteenth century The the the Revolution in communication the print revolution of the mid nineteenth century was absolutely crucial. Will to the spread of spiritualism because spiritualists were radicals they were radical about something they were religious radical if not radicals concerning slavery or or other reforms of the day and so they were likely to be in the minority opinion of the small towns in which they lived across America what periodical provided for them was the ability to form non geographic communities communities of like minded people who did not see each other face to face so you really begin the You see the seeds of the virtual communities that have become so important in the digital age in the periodical press of the nineteenth century. You could subscribe to a periodical published in Chicago or Milwaukee L. Walkie or Boston no matter where you live and you would receive it through the mail and you would see on it the names of other subscribers in your small town or in your state and it would give you the potential to communicate with them to create a network in your community to learn when speakers might be coming to your state when speaker might come to your to the capital of your state that you could go and here and on meet other like minded people and receive further intelligence about the religious movement that you adhere to so the periodical Michael Press was enormously important. It also spread news about traveling mediums and trance speakers. They he did travel on a circuit and they didn't have the religious organizations you know the Methodist Circuit Rider had the church to set the circuit at that they would ride and announce where they would be on such and such date and on such an such a schedule spirit. Mediums didn't have that they often traveled on. Faith that is they would Be hosted by spiritualists families in the communities that would invite them them and the the compensation that they received was what was taken of the door what what contributions were taken up when they passed. Pass the hat and they really didn't know how they would be received how they would get money to travel to their next destination. It was not an an easy life being a spirit medium particularly being a woman traveling alone By public transportation on trains and stage coaches to smaller places It was was an arduous movement and the newspapers burst were critical to spreading word and making this possible In your view what were some of the most oh significant periodical spiritualists periodical. 's I don't think many historians would contradict me if I said said that the two most important periodic tables were the banner of light published in Boston. The longest lives and most widely read of the spiritualist periodical. Sorry articles followed by the Religio Philosophical Journal in Chicago which was really the voice of the Midwest And then there were many periodical published in smaller communities periodical publishing. A periodical was a form former ministry Editors and publishers often did not make a profit on the the periodicals that they published but if they understood this as a way of spreading the word of the spiritual manifestations and of joining like minded people into a community Nydia faithful. That's great. I'm glad you said that because we're focusing on the banner of life as our as our I it. It does seem pretty clear that it's the biggest but you know we're following the editors of the banner of light to there to New Orleans on a trip that they take down there in the eighteen fifty s and looking at the economy. And you know some of the things that we're gonNA special north anyway fantastic. Let's talk more about Another issue that brings spiritualism our race right to the to the surface of spiritualism which you mentioned earlier and that is Native American Indian Spirit Controls Spirit Guides How do you think about this practice? which was so common in spiritualism? What is the myth of the vanishing race? And how did Indian Spirit Guides Reflect or deflect that myth in the years after the civil war so spirit mediums. Liam's very much participate in the myth of the vanishing race. which is the idea that the indigenous inhabitants of North America are part of the past and that their cultures and populations will give way to the new inhabitants sense of North America? Coming from Europe. The the myth of the vanishing race I. I don't actually like that term the myth of the vanishing race because it's not Europeans did slaughter millions of Indian people uh-huh so it's not just a myth that's also a military and economic enterprise But there's also a mythological underpinning that is critical to the American enterprise to the notion of the United States as a nation nation with a manifest destiny ordained by God to bring American civilization and Christianity across the continent from sea to shining sea and that idea idea requires a spiritual justification for replacing indigenous inhabitants tents with inhabitants from Europe as well as people brought here in slavery from So it requires a a spiritual understanding that can justify that displacement and the displacement of peoples from their lands and the gifting of that land to new inhabitants inhabitants. Do you have a general way of that. When you're talking about native spirit guides indigenous spirit guides How do you describe it? In general terms the practice Indian spirit guides are part of a longer American tradition that dates back long before the spiritualist religion emerges in the eighteen forties remember that the Patriots who dumped tea into Boston harbor during the Boston Tea Party dressed up as as Indians beat unused had wielded hatchets while they were dressed as Indians with the idea that the Indian embodied both independence and lack of British sovereignty. But also savagery and a wild response to T being the epitome of civilization as well as a staple necessity of British life life in the colonies So this notion of the Indian as a symbolic representation was well imbued in American culture before spiritualism comes on the scene and spiritualist participate eight in ideas about romantic ideas about Indians that are have already begun to develop And or developing in American literature. Lydia Maria Child Rights Romance About A woman who falls in love with an Indian and then the Indian mysteriously fades away into the sunset while she she develops a more appropriate romantic relationship with a white man and so there is this ability in American can culture to espouse positive views about native Americans at the same time that one assumes that they they are people of the past who are dying away and who are appropriately. Part of the past that is part of the land of the spirits. So spiritualists Indian guides of mediums often. Describe a place they describe as the summer land a A land of natural beauty and an undisturbed natural land where Indians live in peace and harmony as has do white people and where there is no conflict between the indigenous inhabitants and those who have displaced them so it it it spiritualist participate in the fantasy that indigenous America and a European dominated America. Erica can live in harmony and can be part of the same spiritual vision But that's a fantasy and spiritualists is also participate in the process of displacement. Now spiritualists are always reformers and they are very active live in Indian rights reform movements. They are in extremely critical of massacres of Indians. They protest against them. There is one spiritualist named Samuel tapping in particular who is an Indian rights reformer and who is on the commission that is charged to investigate investigate the Sand Creek massacre when Cheyenne and Arapaho people who were under government protection were massacred by the US army during the civil war and he is extremely critical of of American army officials who perpetrated that mass occur. She spends his life trying to find justice for the people who were killed there. And for the Cheyenne Indians UNWRAP. Aho's who were harmed by that. But he he at the same time views the United States as a westward movement. That is the AB- spiritual progress. Congress and he at the same time participates in the progress of the railroad westward the progress of the oil the industry the industries that require a native land that require native people to be displaced in order for them to succeed. So spiritualists are in a An odd position in my view where they are espousing Indian rights but they are also perpetrating. Stereotypes that place Indians in the past in a romantic past where Indians are appropriately. Living in the spirit world and providing support for spirit spirit mediums rather than exercising sovereignty in the present when the civil war began. Yeah how did spiritualists respond. So spiritualists had many of the same responses that other reformers did during the civil war that they supported the war effort. There supported abolition but they were so committed to a new age of spiritual communication when human beings would be able to evolve farther with input put from spiritual wisdom that they wanted to keep their radical reforms and the sisterhood of radical reforms. Alive during the civil war so when most of the reformers like Elizabeth Katie Stanton and Lucretia. Mott and a lot of the other figures dropped everything to support the women's loyal the against support the union and create a highway. uh-huh vegetables that women reformers Chicago sent from The North to the the scurvy Laden soldiers soldiers in the Union army spiritualist kept having spiritualists conventions when most reformers had just dropped everything thing but the war effort and that meant that it spiritualists conventions. The reforms of free love and vegetarianism in is And women's rights were still being disgust. Even though women's rights conventions had had been dropped for the duration of the war so you see this cadre of extremely radical reformers still advocating for women at a time when everyone else thinks. There's something more important to talk about. You mentioned already the way that The massive subscale of death during the civil war influenced the growth of spiritualism. Can you talk a little. No more about how the war in aftermath shaped attitudes towards spiritualism kind of generally and that differ north to south. Not sure that it differed north to south so huge amount of carnage during the civil war. North south black white free enslaved. A huge number of people lost their lives. And you can and see how that would generate interest in communication with the dead but there's something else going on during the civil war which is the the enormous carnage in bodies and drew faust has written about the changing attitudes towards the dead body. We the people try to retrieve the bodies and that's how we get the whole. Embalming Industry that has its origins in the civil war. And so- attitudes towards death are shifting a little bit at this period and spiritualism is GonNa GonNa Kinda move with that and a rounded an in it and through it and out of it. So some people now are going to be more focused on the body and the retr- wanting to retrieve the body and bury the body and have a place in cemetery where they can go to be reunited with their loved one one but you know that some people who are taking advantage of the rural cemetery movement and burying that loved one in in a family. PLOT ARKAN WANNA communicate with them and are going to go to a seance or to a spirit medium to try to do that a lot. A lot of people died. We really have never seen anything like that on American soil since then when death was close at hand and So of course some people are going to be inspired to seek communication during that period including in the south and we do see spiritualism in the south in this period never to the same extent as in the north but we we do see it there as well Victoria woodhull was someone who had her family hedman involved in various Often criminal practices and in the years after the civil war Mary Gabriel's bio of hers. We're using and she talks about her family picking clean the bones of the communities in the border states that were grieving But then Victoria goes to New York and she and her sister tennie become personal clervoy Insz for Cornelius Vanderbilt and then Victoria becomes a more prominent figure in the women's Movement by virtue of that new position that new influence that backing checking that money and she starts her her stockbrokerage. Yes can you talk about the way that Victoria would haul enters the women's movement at the end of the eighteen sixties sixties and seventies. Well Victoria woodhull is a very dynamic and appealing and attractive figure and practically everyone everyone who comes in contact with her strong feelings about her of one type or another and a lot of suffrage is see her as a fantastically. The appealing and articulate spokeswoman for their cause. She attracts a lot of attention and They they see that as an asset that the movement can benefit from and needs. Now I have to admit I have not read the Mary. Gabriel L.. Biography of Victoria woodhull. And I really need to. Because I'm a huge fan of her new book on the Ninth Street Women of abstract expressionism So I really want to know what she had to say about Victoria. But I personally am not a Victoria. Woodhall Fan I. You Victoria woodhall primarily as an opportunist who would find sisterhood with any movement that provided her are an opportunity for self advancement and an a cause that she felt. She could advocate where she would have a group of people who would stand behind her and follow her and adulation her and Place her in leadership she certainly found that both in the women's rights movement and in the spiritualist movement movement she didn't really make a lasting mark on either one of them she made a lot of trouble For a lot of people she got a lot of people in trouble through their affiliations with her and her association and Advocacy of Free Love which tainted p other people people with the the taint of immorality whether they had earned it or not So I might not be depending on on. What is you want to say about Victoria? I might or might not be the best interview. We'll know that's okay. I'm interested on a couple of events that she was involved. In your point of view on the Victoria woodhall travels from New York to Washington. DC In eighteen sixty nine. She goes to the women's rights convention. That's in Washington and she comes away. Frustrated by the internal divisions in the women's movement. Can you describe the conflicts in the women's movement at the time Victoria was observing. That made her feel like doc. Though the women's movement wasn't GonNa make the kind of difference that she thought she could so at the end of the civil war the women's movements divide over for whether the needs of African Americans for legal rights are so urgent that they should take precedence over the rights of women or whether women and African Americans should be enfranchised together. The women's is rights advocates who advocated for abolition and for the Union caused always believed that they were part of a movement that always advocated advocated for the rights of women and that they were fighting simultaneously for the human rights and equal rights rights of blacks and of women black and white that turned out not to be the case and that was very very divisive issue at the end of the civil war and the Women's Movement experienced tragic divisions over that conflict. So so what I can also say About Victoria Wood Hulls election as president of the National National Spiritualist Association. Spiritualism was never a movement that prospered through organization in the twentieth century. The spiritualist Association of Churches would become a denomination but at the time that Victoria would hall was elected to presidency of a National Organization of spiritualists. It was really not a meaningful meaningful or representative body. So although she relished being elected president of anything it didn't really make her a leader in spiritualism and her affiliation with spiritualism west brief how would you describe the relationship between the women's rights movement and spiritualism in the eighteen seventies as kind of marching forward out of the eighteen sixties into that next decade. And you mentioned engine. Trouble that Victoria brought to the movement by hers by Association with her What role did spiritualists teaching on sex and marriage and Mrs Satan as she was sometimes called What role did those teachings about? Sex Marriage spirituals and play in attracting or repelling Advocates of women's rights to spiritualist movement. well as the nineteenth century moved on all sorts of religious religious nonconformity showed appeal to advocates of women's rights. Women's rights advocates are investigating investigating and becoming involved with the Osophy with Christian science with a diversity of new fought and new age movements that a spouse equal rights for women and that permit women's leadership so we have have we have movements espousing a diversity of religious opinions that are in some way critical call of traditional gender roles that women's rights advocates are exploring in different times and places and to different extents so when Elizabeth cady stanton comes to write or I should say to edit her own own critique of the Bible as sexist in the eighteen nineties the woman's Bible an incredibly controversial document most all of the women in who are willing to cooperate with her on that are members of unconventional religious movements and that would include spiritualists. The office new thought Christian Science and other movements now. Elizabeth Cady Stanton really wasn't very happy about that because there were lots of Christian women's rights advocates who were not exploring new religious movements and it was stanton's hope that they would support a critique of the sexism of the Bible people like Francis Francis Willard and other women who advocated women's suffrage but we're also leaders of Popular Christianity and so they had a much larger larger following than the women. Suffrage Association Stanton hoped that they would support a critique of the Bible that would show the parts of the Bible that spoke about women's rights. And what they said those women. The Christian advocates of women's rights and of Women's suffrage would not collaborate with Stanton on this project because for for them the Bible was above reproach they saw the Bible as a source of women's rights and they didn't want to talk to anybody who was going to critique it and they knew that they would lose credibility if they did so when stanton gathers all these unconventional people including spiritualists spiritualists to critique the Bible she becomes incredibly unpopular and the women suffrage association itself condemn. Stanton for doing that in the eighteen. Seventies there are also battle lines drawn within spiritualism We have the rise of materialization mediums. Can you talk about what we what we mean by that. When we look back and we say materialization mediums and in your book wrote wrote about The way that there was a kind of division. I think you wrote about it in terms of trance mediums and materialization mediums. And who if you if you could address. What was going on with their conflict? Sure so trance. It's mediums communicate the presence of spirits through their words through their intelligence through the wisdom that they want to impart to human beings materialization an manifestations claim to prove spirit presence through the physical presence presence of the spirit in the room. Now what is the physical spirit. The physical presence of the spirit spirit is usually seen as opposed to matter so how could spirit manifest physically and different. Mediums demonstrated the physical presence of mediums in different ways some they would have of musical instruments in the room and they would invite the spirit drum the guitar in a darkened room and demonstrate their physical local presence that way some materialization seances allowed people bowl to experience being touched by a spirit. Having a departed loved. One brush your cheek with her fingers in a darkened spirit closet and then disappear some materialization Shen mediums exuded a spirit substance from their bodies called ECTOPLASMS so all of these attempts to demonstrate the physical presence of a spirit ear. It suggest an opportunity for fraud and many of the materialization seances does give rise to serious accusations of fraud and discrediting of both mediums and spiritualists who accepted communications through materialization manifestations whereas trance mediums. Liam's we're looking to communicate wisdom not to communicate the embodied presence now. They also attempted to give tests to prove that a particular spirit was who they said they were so they would ask questions or they would ask an investigator to ask questions that only someone who knew that person during life would would be able to under to answer or that only that person themself would be able to answer So it wasn't that they weren't trying to prove spirit presence in the same way that the materialization seances were were but they were not They did not make recourse to elaborate closets and spirit cabinets and guitars and violins that The materialization mediums uh-huh said were necessary for spirit communication to occur you. You said a few minutes ago. That spiritualism never prospered through organization and in the in this period Can you describe how gendered Power Dynamics Mimics lead trance mediums to oppose the formation of the American Association of spiritualists. Well once you start having electing national all delegates Which is what the National Association of spiritualists attempted to do then the qualities so it is of a spirit medium are no longer going to be the most valuable qualities in a religious leader? Because the person who you want to send to a national meeting to argue for your point of view is not necessarily the innocent naive pure your passive young girl who is a SPEC A who is effective in allowing a spirit spirit of a deceased family member to communicate with you so once you start having organizations you want people who are good conscious speakers who are good organizers who are strategic thinkers Who have good? You'd find sense. Who can hold the purse strings? All of the more masculine characteristics that mediums were not considered to possess so mediums felt that the wisdom of angels was being locked out when spiritualists started to form organizations. And even so and I find this so interesting in light of that Cora is one of the people who all the way to the end of the century is working to form stable institutions for spiritualists. Can you talk about her role in In building churches and of helping a certain tradition of spiritualism to form as denomination. That's a great point. She is such a Compati- figure it cora starts as a an innocent teenage girl Who is a a medium for Indian spirits and other kinds of spirits and and for deceased family members and she moves through a long life? I described grime how she develops how her career develops through her husband's and the kind of evolution of her husband's but she's also going through a personal personal evolution to become a figure of authority and she does become the vice president of the National Spiritual Association and she really is able to make that transition to a more organized group and to a role as pastor so she has a settled congregation irrigation in Chicago. And that is something that is more like a church that will be part of a congregation. Then the spiritualists associations where mediums traveled and they often didn't speak in a settled congregation congregation. They often were speaking in a universalist church that was being made available for the occasion. Asian or in a town hall or in some other kind of free church that they were permitted to youth to us because without organisation they couldn't Finance their own structure. They couldn't pay their own minister. They couldn't support a settled clergy. Remember but core really made that transition to being the pastor of a an established spiritualist church in Chicago. There was another are kind of Discourse that was growing significance and that it seems to me. And I'd love to get your views on this crashed into spiritualism in the seventies indies eighties and toward the end of the century. which is Growing Interest in new ideas about abnormal psychology. And and the formation of the discipline of neurology and there are these other explanations for what's going on with a trance with a fit with a vision that it seems often because some of the early neurologists were very antagonistic. To spiritualism competed for explanation of what a a spirit voice was can you can you describe What what was going on like with neurology and how these ideas of a new medical recall discipline Competed or related with spiritualism. Well we see the rise not only of neurology not but also of gynecology as a medical specialty and you have to remember that the study of women or of the female reproductive system takes off from a tradition that sees the womb as the cause of hysteria in women that women lose their sanity because the womb is wandering around the body but there certainly is an association of of kind of college and neurology. As having common interest in identifying the sources of female insanity and medium ship is considered to be one of those there are medical textbooks that described the disease of media. Mania that are written by early gynecologists and neurologist so there is this notion that women are are more susceptible to irrationality and insanity and that medium ship is an outgrowth of that and that it is not a manifestation of spirit presence but rather that medium ship is a manifestation of insanity and there certainly were cases says where people were committed to mental asylums Where spiritualists were because of their conviction that they were communicating with spirits? Now that is not completely an artifact of the nineteenth century. I have heard similar theories. This advanced in the twentieth century. where I have heard schizophrenia for example associated with medium mediums ship? Because one of the things that mediums do you hear when you visit a spirit medium you will hear them speak speaking in different voices when different spirits speak through them and they sound different. It sounds like they're different people speaking and that is something. That is also reported in schizophrenia. That when a different personality inhabits a person they speak in a different voice. I have heard speculation about schizophrenia. And medium ship have no qualification to comment on it but that idea certainly continues. That people who hear voices are crazy so there still are people who hear voices and believe that they are spirits and there are still people who think that those people are crazy But as these medical specialties are developing for the first time in the nineteenth century spiritualism but set against them and there definitely is a head on collision by the Authority Authority that is being wielded and the medical doctors need to assert in order to create a new medical specialty. Because in fact the medical doctors are also somewhat suspect they dig up cadavers and dissect them and They are also struggling for authority and credibility in the same way that spirit. Mediums are not in the same way but perhaps perhaps in a related dynamic To what is going on in the religious sphere. We opened our conversation in eighteen thirties. And forties forties with religious practices can't meetings and circuit preaching in a new privileging of religious enthusiasm second grade awakening spiritualism kind of grew out of religious ferment ferment. What was its place in American religion at the end of the century? Well at the end of the century Religious ferment continues. It looks a lot different. And we're heading. Towards new religious ferment and ferment. In the early twentieth century were heading towards the fundamentalist liberalism crisis in the nineteen twenties. Where American religion is really going to become very repola rise between feel logical liberals and Conservatives and social liberals and Conservatives and the mainstream churches are GONNA turn one way and some of the newer evangelical denominations and movements are going to turn another But there is a third element here and it is new thought which is overlapping really with everything. New fought is is part of the the notion of progress in the twentieth century and spiritual evolution and there are lots of developments mentioned there continued to be new religious movements. We in the late nineteenth century. We have In eighteen ninety three. We have the world's world's Columbian Exhibition where we have. Americans exposed to many of the religions religions of Asia for the first time and we have Swami's and other Asian religious leaders recruited to come to the United States and teach Americans about their faiths and so we have the whole movement of Theo Sophy which is attempting attempting to combine the wisdom of the East and make it accessible to Westerners and spiritualism moves in and out of all of these developments comments because spiritualism is always available. You can always talk to the dead and in any movement whether you think that wisdom is gonNA come from Egypt or from Tibet or from South America or from Australia. You can always make contact with the spirit from one of those places who can give you wisdom that draws on those traditions and on Esoteric practices from from another part of the world so as the world becomes smaller in the twentieth century spiritualism continues for a vehicle of all kinds of channel documents and channeled wisdom and it continues to move into an out of many other new religious movements when our listeners are hearing this narrative history from the eighteen fifties to about nineteen hundred of spiritualism and its place in American life. What do you hope as a historian that they will take away from this history or learn from uh-huh I hope that they will be open to people whose views are different from their own and I hope that they will will be open to people who they may have dismissed as crazy because of their religious beliefs but whose religious convictions sons allowed them to hacked with conviction in ways that we now find enormously admirable and they would not Oughta have been able to do that without the spiritual inspiration and liberation that they found in spiritualism? That's beautiful beautiful. Thank you so much. You're well are we done. We're done. Hey folks it's Aaron here. I hope today's interview helped you. Deepen your understanding of everything involved in the world of spiritualism. But we're not done yet. We have have more interviews to share with you so stick around. After this brief sponsor break to hear a preview of next week's interview next time on on obscured she will not accept the fact that her son has been sold and she basically campaigns all over the neighborhood of Ulster County. riling people people about this and especially the quakers because it is against the law but what. Enslaved woman has the wherewithal to challenge the slave power. Our well bell did and she got help from the quakers and she eventually was able to get her son back but she raised a huge ruckus. A lot of the slaveholders were angry with her for having done this. The quakers were adamantly anti-slavery and they helped Sir get a lawyer and eventually get this boy back within a year. He was back and when she got him back to win. According got him back he was covered with bruises. You told her that. The man who had purchased him Lewis also a New Yorker who had moved to Alabama had had his horse hoofs board for her son's name was Peter in the face. She had a big gash in his forehead. Where the man's horse had hoof Tim and she was so angry that she asked God for retribution and she told him to render unto them double for everything they had done to her son? As far as she was concerned that was her curse that she was leveling against his family and within a few months the woman who was married to the man who had sold her son and brutalized him was killed by her husband Anna a very brutal way. He basically according to the narrative he had cut her one pipe out in a drunken fit On obscured was created by me. Aaron Minke and produced by Matt Frederick Alex Williams and Josh Thane in partnership with iheartradio researching writing for this season is all the work of my right hand. Man Karl Nellis and the brilliant Chad Lawson listen composed the brand new soundtrack learn more about our contributing historians source material and links to our other shows over at history on obscured dot com. And and until next time thanks for listening an obscured its production. iheartradio and Aaron Monkey for more podcasts. My Heart Radio Post. I heart radio APP apple podcasts. Wherever you listen to your favorite shows

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The Secret Policeman's Tour - Edinburgh 2019

The Guilty Feminist

00:0-1 sec | 1 year ago

The Secret Policeman's Tour - Edinburgh 2019

"Hello this is Deborah Frances White. This is the second of our secret policeman's tore shows. We're back in the Edinburgh playhouse where we gave this idea is soft launch last last year. This is a show. You should really come to a few possibly can but we're excited to bring you some highlights. I'd like to thank everyone who performed on the night and gave their time and talent for this incredible calls Grace Petri Rachel Paris niche come on Cindy amount as it in just Robinson Larry You Dean Rosie Jones Cheval McSweeney Nikola caughlin search Monica Jackson Jamie Lee O'donnell Anna Warren Steve Ali Hollie mcnish phoebe Robinson undesired birch also working behind the scenes Geeta D. C. O. Rachel Kaufman Kalemba and everyone and I'm nasty next stop on the tour will be the Manchester Palace theater on the third of December. Get your tickets at eight hundred tickets dot com or check the guilty feminist website for more details now on with the show Oh good evening everybody and welcome to the secret policeman install the Edinburgh playhouse fees welcome to say your host for this evening Amnesty Ambassador Deborah Frances White first of all sign language interpreters have an anti-rebel of all appreciate the study one person there now I am aware of that but they switch in announce announced because it's too much for anyone to do over one periods academy supporting us all evening funny now I was because I was it's back and I got written-off spinal tap style because it is really up and down round the I was I was I went down. I was meant to go. I went out put us. It was like brexit where I was and then I ended up on the wrong side of backstage and there was a rope saying don't go past there but I was being caused. I'm just going to have to. I'm going to have to be a rebel. I'm going to have to be a revolutionary. I'm going to have to go not meant to go and that's why I ran across and then a man came up and said you're not meant to do that because now you've cost a chateau on the screen I fucking. John has cast a shadow. However human rights have gone the stage yet now? We've got a very special thing does anybody. BBC's grown up obviously Missolonghi no nothing about it. it's a podcast but we always have this lovely segment. I'll coach Steve Alice perspective. There's one very big fan laugh of Steve Alleys perspective so Steve Holly is from Syria he became a refugee and was displaced and has made his way through justifying circumstances to the UK and so this segment is when listeners writing their problems and Steve takes the most first world problem answers with a refugee answer the refugee solution to your first world problem so today at the fringe we rent around and we got some first world problems and we are not going to pick one out for Steve to do tonight A. K. so are you ready Luca you. There's a lot of them which I'm so delighted about that for financial reasons now Steve Inhale yeah all the questions so you don't get to pick out. We're going to get an audience member to pick one out okay so this is the question then you're going to have the first half of the show to write an op also which you will come out and delivered to the audience at the top of the second half show up for that okay. I'm up good now if not to be honest to doc. I've told them what excited anyone here who feel that they have a job. That's most deserving of somewhat somebody who he human rights Effects Job Youtube does something for the human beings. Nobody has a joke that helps. It's a policy states of affairs this day. Okay what's your name. I'll some so oh man after these little I'm the attractive Swat right sure sounds Italia lovely. Are you in fact Italian. Oh even more even better even he has to do even less now so I'll fund so what's your job software engineer a software engineer so you're part of the problem. It's tech more than banking. That's killing the world and it's the monopolies. Are you working for like vessels or someone terrible arable google. That's not much better. No I think they're official. Slogan is do no evil. They fucked up process up fucking core. The value is do no evil you google so you will be doing the running back as a search engine right okay all right so your job is not good enough. You can't be the choosers but you can be the holder so you are now the embodiment of the search attention. Does it feel familiar so who was over here said they had a job for human rights what helping children get to boarding school. What do you do to help them? Get the right support in school. What kind of the children children with special needs okay? Hey okay now. It makes sense we also could you please take the bag to the people people who care more about human rights than you because of everyday they get up to help children with special nate's why you know take it to those people okay and then they're gonNA pick one outs okay all right. So do you want to read this out. Once you have a best of what I forgive everything else on seven in fact I thought so I'm just GonNa put it to you that I think you could do more. I think you could start. Stop making like sort of APPs and things things that could help people and we should talk about what we can do together on the side so distracted while I almost fell backwards over speaker but that's just the charm of a Spanish man. I've said it before I'll side again. I do not know why we're leaving the union. I'm not suggesting a union but I am saying so. We're still European FR- a short window with this could be a truly European Union. I'm sorry I just the suspect. You'll go for enjoyed. So is this just thanks. I'm so I'm so married and I'm not in one of those open. I'm barely nearly monogamous to be honest with you. Know One of the jokes have a lovely evening together together. You will not be pursued followed now. Join the rebound you. How can I experience life in a refugee camp so I can have a better understanding of the refugee experience without actually living then? I well problem isn't it. I just want to build an embassy done anyway. Inconvenienced Cave that keeps my empathy experience. Do you think you can do something you. You can do that all right all right some exciting isn't it. We've got so much in store for you tonight. We've got so many amazing amazing comedians all you ready for the first act. He's an incredible incredible comic. You will know him from the Mash report the Apollo and all sorts of wonderful things we will no no him from being just a stand up amazing guy backstage. Put Your hands together making credible noises for the wonderful aw nice to see great to be here in Scotland Scotland. It's an interesting time in the last couple to come up as sort live left-wing comedian to Scotland do political comedy in front of Scottish audiences so obviously there is a lot of tension still remaining in Scotland over the question of Scottish Independence Fiber Labor scholarship. She's calm down bravehearts good while he would say to the people in favor of scholarship. Independence is that there were lots of sections of the British left that are broadly sympathetic towards the idea certainly in the aftermath of brexit terms relationship with the United Kingdom seemed to fundamentally change and it it seems like there is at least grounds for a second ask that question but on the other hand. Please don't leave us with these in Scotland on the English to leave us with why Golsen chants come and join us. I can't secede from the Union. What a time to be a ofo the prime minister of Boris Johnson amount? He's been fired from all of his jobs for incompetence mendacity. Your both this boy Boris Johnson is less a man more performance art prank in what if white privilege was a guy. We need to have a second brexit referendum. I believe that now more than I've ever believed it the the guilty feminist the secret policeman's ball. Let's consider this second referendum people a safe space unless just for one second admit that fundamentally the reason we want a second referendum is because we lost the first one we had one fifty two to four. We would not be talking a second referendum. We'd all the will of the people must be respected where other people must be respected. Remain Maine's remained remain means ran. My I pod remained mandatory croissants for everyone sick sick of people saying if there's no deal brexit we'll survive. Why would you vote for something? Whether best case scenario is you dumped die now. People keep saying we survived the Second World War. We survived the Second World War firstly. No we fucking didn't millions of people watch any of you seen any film secondly. We is an interesting choice of Pronoun we I don't remember US surviving the Second World War so they survived the Second World War. We conserve our phones being eight percent battery. How are you going to withstand the blitzkrieg of the looked WASPA- uh-huh four thirty PM everyday you have a full nervous breakdown in your office? Does anyone appetites of course the small one. Why do you still you'll have to pick one darren? It's fine without the button. Also when we talk about the second mobile we know understanding of the nature of British history right when we talk about the second mobile we portray Britain's this nation to survive on its own but at the time the Second World War Britain's still an empire from which it was able to divert badly needed food and Resources Winston Churchill took food from India and used it to feed starving British people and that is where the brexit world war two comparison if ever stood up for one fucking second fundamentally falls down because I have taken a quick look at the current state eight of the British Empire and all I can say is Gibraltar had better fucking police assault sound. I don't know what they're doing on Gibraltar but it has the best be the mass production of ten goods and insulin to my left office after doing her best to solve the brexit problem by bringing the withdrawal bill just the same one every time changing changing the phone every time the thing is right. I've been an outspoken critic of to reasonably in the past. When she left office when she was standing outside number ten Downing Street and she was crying regardless? I felt about her on a human level yet to fill about brexit negotiations about the opened with the phrase. No deal is better than a bad deal. Thus quashing any any possibility of a compromise soft brexit regardless my fell about that you feel the only human also fell about the hostile environment policy is she pursued while time secretary culminating the situation where members of the windros generation were deported from their homes. We're going to say that you have to admit the only we're going to sway five other grenfell tower tragedy and the lack of empathy and the response onto the situation the fourteen people still have no housing from the Grenfell Tower tragedy regardless very felt by that you ought to admit on a human level went to reach my stood outside ten downing on extreme and cried. It was really funny. It was so funny she was a job on a rice as she cried and I'm happy. Thank you very much. See you again good ball. The next act is an incredible performance poets you you will really enjoy her very beautiful work. Put Your hands together and making credible noises. Hello squads squats to go on as opposed on a comedy. If I'M GONNA have as it might be what you're waiting for but I'm going to read some phones for you and hope you enjoy them. I am I was thinking of poems to read out and thought long and hard about it and for some reason I seem to have picked poems about my grandma and fingering no not at the same time and so I'm not really sure what the theme is of the set. Thanks have made so yeah I would stop if this poem and is one way to do it because I'm staying in a hotel and I always get excited staying in hotels and for the first time about a month ago when I was until somebody told me that I should stay in the shampoo bottles so oh I try to my grandmother's taught me like a law in my life and one of the main things that they taught me was steel and and things like that and some sort of feeling a bit bad about between my grandma's and the like climate change enj- basically so so this is a poem about that anniversary after taking your after the first time I didn't still a sham people or tea bag or or anything which I think should commend myself for and it's an codes nakedly bax grandma. Please forgive me. This is your fault grandma. I'm like this. I cannot leave the tiny shampoo bottle in the hotel shower which do not need to take a do not need to take it. Would we just sit in my bathroom cupboard unused for years but I cannot leave it or the shower gel or the body lotion. I don't even use body lotion. This is your grandma. I cannot leave the tea bags in the basket for the next guest I cannot leave. The biscuits in the pack is in the basket for the next guest uses your for. I cannot leave the alcohol in the glasses or the barrels or autos or you can drink parties that you pay fees in advance for this. Is Your fault that night. I ended up in a car park in to to think in the car. Park was my bedroom because I had to get my money's worth. You have to get your money's worth really all you can drink in advance. Parties are only five pounds to get into any way but don't worry grandma wasn't a friend found me we bought home. It was fine but grandma remember he used to order twenty packs of sugar with your tea on the train down from Glasgow just so you could steal steal the packets of sugar but the excuse that they would have thrown them away anyway after being on your sauce. You never even ordered team. Just a Mug of water and twenty packs of sugars slipped not back from your handbag so you did not have to pay the full price for a cup of tea on the train. Today I left a hotel room for the first time in my life without taking taking a single teabag. Not One do not need the T. Backley. You do not need the teapot called World War Two is over but now but now oh I'm on the train back home staring out the window and I can feel you on my shoulder. Looking down on me disgusted frowning at the loss. What's happened to your family? What's happened? It's your granddaughter whispering traitor traitor whispering traitor. Thanks the oldest one's called Cherry Pie and it's about my granddad and then I'll move onto easy three poems swoop about fingering. I think to be very short ones but this is terry anniversary. It was the first time that my mom was cooled into my school. He said when I was a primary school because we did a thing about healthy eating diet and apparently we have to draw breakfast lunch and dinner for like seven days and I only asked for Yellow Crayon and the teacher asked me why Franklin so because food is yellow and so my mom my dad was called in to talk about this members disliked special home cook in a military pie from my grandparents came down from Scotland and she's lasted and the moment she sliced sliced. My granddad ran to the toyland through so this is about this jerry when my mom's sliced the Cherry Pie I on the table my granddad runoff through. I'm so sorry dad mom said I'm so sorry I forgot. I was nine years old and no idea what happened but where my papa came back he explained to weeks of waiting on the shores of a war beaches rowing boats came to collect them and the only thing there for the soldiers to eat but prepackaged sweet Syrup Cheriton his mates was Shot Dead Cherries were blood red stench of rotting in sweet fruit. He was gagging with each breath. He said war is a sham. We had ice agreements that he said be kind. Revengeful holy believe or you read and don't need cherries and Syrup because stuff. What's your dreams? Thanks it. Thanks do awesome very quick poems for you and I'll do this one so there's a couple about being a teenager. I think they get quiet hard. Do all the time in get blamed for a lot and it's not really political this code Yongqing and it's about the first time one of my friends is to give a boy a hand job and she asked us how to do it and instead of telling it may be Oscar boyfriends which of course my mind about a year ago if I'm GONNA ask instead of asking some of the many boys that we were good friends with school we went and bought a few magazines which are very good at teaching young girl's house. Please boys themselves and we were all of our awesome amazing fourteen year old sexual knowledge together that we've gained from these position of the month magazines uh-huh until it's my friends would say with her boyfriend's penis and she did it and he ended up in hospital so this is about and then I'll I'll make very quickly on to the next to that's the sort of poetry autry waves and don't worry about clapping after X. is in between music and comedy and sometimes people don't know what to do and one person claps and feels like nope I gang apparently up and down did not mean like a lever the night like Ado Zoom cajole stick like a casino slot machine it meant up and down fingers curved around gentle strokes from shafter tip. We only learned this after the Becky had tried the alternative Yanqing motion almost snapped her boyfriend steak. We gathered listened starter back our impose perfume shirts. We stroked her back in hidden. Thank fuck. She tried it. I the next the next for in the next one's arguing in the headmaster's office and then I was very well behaved at school but I always go for my skirt being to you show and it makes me feel sick. This measuring the needs to the filing is if that is the sort of sign of morality and it's the first time I remember argument for teacher at at school and it didn't do any good by arguing in the headmaster's office special the poem. He said he said my skirt was distracting. The lads roll it down legal length bolognaise like none I said some of the boys have trousers so tight I can see the outline of Dixie a still managed to get on with my work sure it wants to finish off. Thank you so much having let me hear this brilliant. This one is called reducing my carbon footprint. Which I thought was primarily this evening I go over environmental poem the Senate lots of things about reducing your carbon footprint and it felt like everything that you could swap this this this this everything's of came down to masturbation in in my head the most carbon-neutral activity so this is about that I just saw everything you investigation and so this is good yeah which is in my carbon footprint for anyone else who cares about the environment as much as I do getting good nicely in the toilet of a pub is better for the planet than Takeaway Coffee Cup just if you wondering what to do at the break and with the cops like in the cafe all right? This is my final one. Thank you very very much. He's his shoulders and it's just dependent. I am about my shoulders because I think I've got very nice shoulders not so it's not all right. My shoulder is fucking delicious smeared with records dirty speckled. Come on jump is always fall off one shoulder flesh to show t-shirt tops name sacrilegious covers of these perched going tackled oval beauties. I know I shouldn't boast about my buddy bombsite board in bad too. It's a fuck it. I Will Brag my shoulders Buddhist fucking delicious. No one's told me it's just the fact thank you very much. They put because incredible wonderful noises for the all over the television these fabulous day incredible this supertuck right. I guess I'm back. I can't get enough off but this time I'm using words instead of music you welcome because I'm what they call in show business a triple threat. Yes I said it because I do music and I do jokes and I will cook you. There's something I've picked up in Motherwell Motherwell hard to say I I wake keep you long. I just wanted to talk with we're here because of human rights and because of feminism and I think feminism it should be an easy idea but he's not not everyone is a feminine so I am a feminist. Obviously thank you and I'm a fan who isn't who isn't isn't good so the thing is feminism means different things to different people. You know really what to tell you. I asked this question at at the Apollo Theater in like thousands of people and I said he's anyone not too feminist and this lady three rows back went me. I'm not which is fine you know no judgment here a just amazed at her confidence to earn not not being a feminist to a female comedian in front of thousands of people on recorded live TV. You know it was astonishing Conrad. You get that level of confidence from I wanted to myself so and then I entered myself from the hundreds of years of work of women fighting on your behalf against the Patriarchy but that's what I suppose that's where you get it from so I want to talk about. I think I've identified four things that make you a feminist. I think I've identified those four things. I'd like to talk to you about those but much like Mike Pence I you don't feel comfortable being in a room with women without a male Chaperon to help me with this bit. Please welcome dish Kumar well on tyrod Reid jumped off and most of my professional life being sast while you I'm now in this section of the show which you have declined to show me the script for it probably be fine so really I suppose I'm using user sort of male Guinea pig rules of feminism okay if you like so. I think the first rule is you believe that men and women are equal so that's the I think the even nations would agree that what do you mean even of course I agree with that. I like the use of the word even in that statement so you are on board with that idea. Yes I describe myself as very much a passenger on that voyage so he's got one out of four the SOFA so the second thing I think is a little bit harder actually and it shouldn't be but it is is the idea that that that equality hasn't been achieved yet because yes men and women should be equal. Women should have more rights but that idea is that happened now so stop harping on about it in your shrill the voice I never mind I keep someone of having a shrill voice. What did not like the size of like all you never set you want me to stop talking and shut up? No that's that's I. I'll say you'll give you a half point on that one. The third one is that you want to do something to make quality happen. It might be a small you might be like signing petition it might be we didn't loads of you might be organizing a huge loss of it but you have to do some. It's not enough to just wish it so. What have you done to help? The feminist cause is not a treatment because he he has done things. He has his things just they went to see Liz. Oh that's a good one trying to make sure that the creative team say behind the master boys gender-power t support accidental were almost exclusively female glendening also trying to cover something. You shouldn't make me feel good good. It's not a trick. You have two things a grace. I think we have to give Nisshin round of applause now. As a shining example doing the absolute Ben Minimum Heterosexual Heterosexual cisgender man in a position of power should do and when you absolutely nailing back Nash really are which brings me to point four to be a feminist which is of course the old despise all men the J. One niche. Obviously that's completely optional. That's obviously not true because you Ramon I suppose news and I despise you despise Nishat at all I think he copes very well. So all in all niche you get a two and a half which is a pass. Is that everyone the feminine I've been ready to receive a wonderful the secret policeman's toll. We're not just funny. We're also incredibly interesting. Our next speaker is a human rights defender you find any of the human rights lying around the floor and I was defending them. Afonso this person will will she is a campaign for human rights and Social Justice human qualities officer at the Mental Health Foundation Mental Breath Full G. O. L. Let's let's let's hope it'll help. Although we should Amal is an ambassador for the Scottish Refugee Council and was honored with a University of Glasgow's world changing number four twenty eighteen. That's right nick bring you any human rights defender Award winning one's a modest collaborated with the UK for several years. I'm will join the Amnesty School Speaker Program this year. She's also known as goes but she'll tell you more about bats the parole good evening folks folks is such an honor and pleasure to be with you all here tonight's Amnesty International is such a big place in our hearts for many reasons and some of them you here tonight so I can't the UK when I was ten years old from Somalia East Africa in the two thousand mom decided that we had to leave Somalia A to basically find a place that safe for us a place where I could go to school and go to university and then go to work and so on and so forth unfortunately we didn't have enough money for my father to come with us so we're just me my mom and she was pregnant with my sister at that time so we left Somalia we arrived in the UK arrived in London and afternoon half in London. My mom had a post the Home Office to see if we could get our own accommodation because we're living with other people at that time and and the said yeah that's fine you can live in the UK but would have to disperse you elsewhere so we'd have to send you somewhere else. Ten minutes twenty minutes from London so we're not too bad. It's not that far ten minutes time two minutes and of course that wasn't the case one into a huge coach came and there were a lot of different families in this coach and I felt like we did a tour of the UK that day because different families who are being dispersed elsewhere in different places and my mom get off so my mom didn't speak any English at that time so she said a mark new going speaks the bus driver and see for getting off anytime soon said yeah of course no both are aspects of the bus driver and I said excuse me Sir as my family getting off anytime soon and he's like your last and I was like right right. We're we're last okay where we're getting off and he's like oh Glasgow and I was like I'm sorry watt and he's like you know Glasgow and I was like no now I don't know classical and he's like Scotland and I was like oh my goodness where Scotland and he's like just back down always I didn't have this accident back then but you know just so rafting Glasgow the year two thousand and one I started from chapel highschool and then in the year two thousand and enforce our family received refugee status which basically meant that the government believes our story out were allowed to stay in the UK for as long as we wanted and are still remember. Get that piece of paper that day because I knew that that piece of paper meant that me and my family we're safe or secure. I got to school after that can go to union my mom could work and so on and so so forth but my other friends were still waiting for that piece of paper but we still need with life into in five. Something else happened that changed my life forever. Whatever I was fifteen years old one of my school friends who was also fifteen was rated and detained basically fourteen Home Office immigration officers I went to flats handcuffed? Father detained the family and send them to a detention center in England called yards and lock them up like criminals for three weeks wchs now nobody chooses to be an asylum-seeker. Nobody choicest fear refugee. Nobody chooses to leave their family. Their loved ones the the weather for no reason. Don't get me wrong the best thing to happen to me. My family was to come to Scotland. Come to Glasgow the the Home Office. Obviously regrets it now but you know we're so when my friend was detained have to do something this is not right children. A specially should not be treated like that innocent. Human beings should not be treated like the next thing I knew I was on the newspapers on the TV and myself myself and six other girls from our school became known as the gloss girl it makes later our friend Dick Nestle was released from detention after much campaign in not just for months spot from everyone in the community. Everyone came together from all walks of life to say the actually this is our family. They're human beings. They're people before they are era. Fiji's don't use those labels against them so thankfully they were released have refugee status. They're happy living in classical but we were not successful full and I guess that's what makes our story too is that we don't win every time but actually we have to keep going because if we don't stand up for what's right then who will and that's encouraged me to stand up for us right into continue campaigning for others and it reminds me of a family visiting Kelly who were just sitting because of Os happening in Syria and many other countries in the world but the people that I will also never forget unaccompanied children that were without their families. Please and this is what I'm hoping you can make a difference in tonight's there are so many children in the UK who cannot reunite with their families families because of the UK immigration policies if there's a refugee family here who have their asylum case approved they can reunite with their children however ever if there's a refugee child who's also been accepted that child cannot reunite with their family which does not make any sense a lot of the country country our neighbors to the UK have said actually reuniting families together have not met the numbers will grow up or anything like that what it meant that people arena with their people children were not with the families. I mean think of you yourself. How can you thrive without your family? You know so there are three things are asking tonight and three things that you can help me with an north not asking for money you can keep up so one of the things is child refugees with have the the right to sponsor their close family members to come to the UK so that they can rebuild their lives together. Second part is that young people who have turned eighteen and elderly parents would also be able to live in safety with their families here lastly refugees who have lost everything could access legal aid eight help them navigate the complicated process of being reunited with their families so by signing Amnesty International's petition you can help Earth Home Office secretary principal tell to challenge the rules and help reunite more people with their families in the UK. All all you need to do is text together plus your name to seven zero five zero five and saying help unite families. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for coming tonight and enjoy the rest of it. Thank you so much the lose that's the that's for a young person like that not just to say on all right pula letter up chat atkins she got in and became one of the Glasgow girls and then went onto marry George Clooney what an absolutely amazing now is the time for our home home secretary to listen and seize the opportunity to make a lasting difference to the lives of refugees in the UK children need their parents by signing Xining amnesties petition you can urge the Home Secretary to change the rules and reunite more refugee families in the UK text together plus your name two seven. Oh five or five so I would text together Deborah two seven. Oh five zero five please note Amnesty International Law so Cornu Cornu about ways to support their amazing and life saving work including fundraising text no call one word two seven Oh five oh five to opt out for details see amnesty dot org slash. Sms Tom's it is a wonderful wonderful act. You'll know him for the television but he is absolute fridge legend in favorite. It's so wonderful thank you O. Here he is creepy as a luke by north go we are. I've been told that guy always see the job but he's never working a allegra. D vetoed a Likley so strange that you just don't Ross last week came to the French. I'm looking forward to being over just because I've not seen my moment amazing moment so much so these boys suicide he's wheelchair wheelchair poor. She's very poor. She's a poor scored. Sushi talks like this go to pour scorn talked before it is linked to my mom's owens sounds like a wheel of those polls people that don't seem to have any balloons glading through through I'm so poor. She's got double borrow subway subway but she's pushing off the second part of it is silent. I love her off the hell off something easy because when we lawf- WE'RE GONNA the goal was house through mom gives you one and then Hor voice is extraordinarily is just she's so easy to find a party fairies coming in so as as he got a few house froth should be I can never find my mom at the supermarket. I've only ever seen one Paschall CEO offers a few times highs. Come take up. Maybe quickly my aches letting go fuck it hail. Mary like like Omega to take power since I went from break-up few months ago. I'm really good since my always a up your staff myself after break-up Larry New to do. They're going to go to the supermarket. I'M GONNA buy some food AMIS employing two. I was going to guide for a whale day. Oh Oh you guys just because I feel like getting to see. I'm gave talk with some audience members of funky. Why did you tell us that you're gay to tell your motel tale in the a warning? There's nothing scary Gig lies region because you good who's a shrine going for a while north going north what's going lump them a loss and his name was luke still looking revenge lab lake because I was the organized one of the relationship because most relationships are made up of an organized one on a disorganized wood and the reason why they get together as organized people people look at organized ones when he foresees them in a lake. Wow they're so elite back. They must have everything organized. He's a name you lie to yourself for a few months. You'll be like Oh gosh and a couple of months passes and not smokescreen leaves you very quickly and you're just going heavier. You not dead yet. The point is to lead. I wonder if I should break aecom Rico by thought they'd be organized is but another disorganized but I'm the only organized accompanied with them. I've made plans is bull. So that's what happened. He he broke up with me which annoying baseness have got to realize you knew all my mom is my best friend and also meet saw ah yes the gas. Hr House broken. He's been very comforting because he's southern Irish person unless I liberty accent here when you're going through such I love the accent is so nicest software because you don't talk Northern Irish person when you're going through because I was comforting at all is it. Are you thinking break-up spot. What would I do with this car? We wonder if you can do it for you. Don't worry that I've noticed is Northern Irish people but the difference with the accent is Northern Irish. People people do not move their winner talking. I think it's because they think English may be reading southern. Irish accent is locally because basically to do with the southern Irish accent all you need to do with songs. If you're walking down the stairs Geez. It's something you gotta go by a couple of games and we'll meet Sarah has been giving me of H. And the reason why schools are by the way is is half Irish coffees really that guy loves or he's been giving me the cliches cliches knowing the base that they say the cliches did could away meal. I thought it was so stupid because he goes Larry. Remember break-up is a lot like bereavement. I think a breakouts loss of bereavement migrant did not die so she could fuck talk over people. You've been obviously lovely. I'll be. CC Blooms anybody making the most of the number Oh yeah yeah I liked the Glasgow gay balls but a bit more intimidating amid eating this clause. If you drop your phone and you're just GONNA have to Kit who aw great lineup eighty avid lobbied enjoy also jail the Scottish where where in Scotland look how does now if the sketch written today today it would be called the oppression Olympics because it is about four men outdoing each of them so what kind of man I hear you US Yorkshiremen and we just thought together backstage and we thought who's had even harder older than Yorkshiremen and the also he came up with was different Ed's Oh oh ooh very possible not bothered zone. Nothing like a good gloss shuttle the away I Mrs Joe Zion Yeah Round Talia you ooh forty years ago that we'd be sitting here. Drinking shocked owed the shots. I would've been glad of the price of a corporate head cold same without milk or sugar a our core. Ah We never out of we used to drink out of a role do the best we could monitor dumped well. Yeah no doubt way back doc pay all lovely were Paul Vic sway where Paul I I know my mom used to say to me. Money won't bring in your happiness our luck she barack our aqua then and I had nothing we used to live in a tiny tumbled donald out with great olds golden roof. You will look eat out. We live in a sixty-two Edinburgh fringe venue. The snow furniture was missing in one quarter review from the Foxman as as embroiled friends report report well you own fads adding of on debts. I used to dream of living under tip bad in a Labor world that would have been a policy to us. We live we used to live in the men's toilets of a nightclub and we got work by having a load of locker room. Talk dumped on US labor walled house well when I say house I mean we're on the ground covered by canvas but we're now to all we are all in the ground. We had to go and live back inside. Do Woo ooh yeah ah can now uh hey move on blitzer live and nine. I'd say as Tom the video love soup a-plus you will look kate way lived for three months in the gender pay gap in every mon and we'd have to get put six clean out the gap each across the stale bread then we'd have to go work forty eighteen hours a day in day out for half the wage the member gets it and they were all on paid internships and when age come home the the Patriarchy would rashes to sleep with its faintness look sure we we used to get three clean the inside of a handful of hot gravel and we work in mill for twenty two super some of the McColl and the GOP would beat us about the head and neck with a kind of late suffering. We will look at have silence like way had God. I wish I got our ball ned time per atm usage set and wash. How's play a AH calm? grabble would what pray for Japan's for years and we'll pay K. It says now was a coal yard about four hours right. We used to get in the morning and half past ten at night. After now before we go to bed of low cab. You'll oh good free weight watchers all round poison work twenty nine hours a day at mill for half any lifetime chrome and each night the Patriarchy would call slit our throats with a shot from the glass ceiling Berry in historical obscure thing the try and sell to the young people of today. Will they believe you route one actual. You'll she wanted. Let you see you don't say don't give value for money now. All you ready to hear the answer to the question posed out of the hat and source of red by Afonso then you will need to join me and cropping Ohio making incredible woohoo and noise does the one the only the amazing stay so oh. How can you experience or if you're G camp without having to actually go into one well short answer Glastonbury when I lived in the jungle all British volunteers who came said that this is just like black and be but without the band's well some might say this was incredibly tactless but they meant twelve they most of them were from public school students so I guess what they were trying to say as I don't feel so bad we've got one just like this? They could have been trying to get on maidens Chelsea so they were one of which is more than you've done when I finally managed to get to the UK after escaping a war zone and crossing the continental snow in fruits and crossing the Dinghy and working as a firefighter in refugee calm intrigued by this last week and I wanted to go so bad it but last year it wasn't not just my luck this year though I said less than bree I'm here for you but guess what sold out that was my I knew that it's not like Kelly jungle because because because refugee camp is never sold out and there was no vip tickets there were backstage passes but you don't want them being refugee that I am I don't let little things stand in my way like Novica papers so I did what every self respecting refugee were doing a crisis. I found a guy who knows a guy knows a guy. Now you know out how to use somebody else's thicket Glastonbury so I had to use my refugee experience of being muscle guys and pretend and to be a man called Ali season. I didn't look exactly I always sit in vascular photo so I had to practice to perfect my English accent so I I don't get caught. Only thing I knew about all the season from his name on the that was definitely English when you are being being pushed as a refugee you learn to say as little as possible. British people always want to over explain and make excuses apologize even before they found out oh sorry I've my friends stick it and he's got my ticket and he's already going in. What am I like so sorry comparising? You can't do that when you're refugee. You'll get deported. You answer the question and give us little information as possible. Never tell any lies that you don't have to so. I've practiced my English accent. Only seton listen only seen only season because they are only going to ask you what's your name and they must probably asked me. Do you have any other ideal L. Something practice no on me on me on me. What the charm I was through the gates and I was inside no problems when I go in? I have to admit it was exactly like a refugee camp however there are some fundamental on demento differences between classes and the refugee camp number one British people don't know how to operate the piece of equipment that we in the refugee business call the tint next time I go. I'm going to be offering tutorials for people to erect their tents in under three minutes and also how to run away from the police ace while they are inside the tent behind the second fundamental difference between glossary and a refugee camp is the loose in Kelly lose. We're never that that British people have to say Your Festival lose off frankly disgusting shameful. We would have clean them. Why are you doing and the little MIC Riddick lost British? People Kelly was never that buds refugees was worried to be judged. Why aren't you the final the reason Kellyanne is not like being Leslie? Is that in Kelly I never complained. I was moaning non stopping last week I was going. How are we doing hit walk? How far more do we need to from this? I was like I won't across the continent to get here and then I was like the Rosa isn't cold enough. There were times there were tons of hutch eat snow because I didn't have voter. What have you done to me? I'm so and it's your fault. British people have even named the injuries after privilege. I've got tennis elbow. My my name's Ali seasons. I've run a marathon for charity. My Name's only seat and I've got athletes. I I've got millionaires. Why migraines off my head hurts before because I've been counting on my money? My Name's Ali season my verdict. You complain when you when you don't have to come but when you do your own with it you can never really pretend to be in the refugee camp having said that Uh Scotland you might have to have some refugee camps at some point soon when brexit happened and you dependent and rejoined the you might get English people up and broke scapin hunt at borders and saying no on me my Karolyi seasons. He's one of my favorite people. Thanks for my special people. If you enjoyed Steve Valley's perspective there's a forty episodes of grow up land on BBC sounds Steve who says you need to make comedy out of it because if you make comedy out of it then people can take and their armored comes off but also I think Steve says that because when he first moved in with us he had never done comedy and when I went back to Kelly and I met volunteers back there they'd say oh Steve Alleys living in your spirit what's he doing and I'd say comedy and make go Steve Steve Allee the five hundred guy no he's very serious and quiet and I was like no. He's doing comedy now and one day I said to him which you like to do an Improv class because our friends were doing improv classes and he said I think it'd be very good at it but I think should do it because of my situation I said what's your situation Steve. He went live with you so I have to do comedy. That's the opportunities being offered and I'm GonNa Refugees. That's what I said if you journalists lined be writing for the comedy so that's what I do now. I'M GONNA send my goddess like avoidable family in the eighteen hundreds to go round but child is born in the voidable trunk and there has to pop out and do an act ring fascinating to me say that one thing that I've really noticed refugees you ask them. Would you like to do this. I said I can say anything to save wise the nervousness. You've never done this before he went aw from it and he said so many of the things that I've had to do I can die from so not anything I can't die from show because of my situation losing your human rights and getting them back again. You can feel the shift. I actually remember the day that Steve got his papers. He had to go to Boston to get them. He didn't know that it was definitely going to be them He. He said he thought it was an I thought probably wasn't it was just a letter from the Home Office and I was trying to lower his expectations and say maybe it's not that maybe it's just let it feel it my papers it's my papers purpose and then he was on the National Express back from Bolton because he hadn't suffered enough and and I texted him and I was like well aw and he takes the back. Unfortunately I'm going to be living longer because I got my papers. He fucking x factor judges houses me and then he said I just don't know how to feel about it. Though 'cause it's like every bad thing that's ever happened to me is falling off the side of this page and he said I can't believe like I've now got the refer six years. I haven't had the right to a doctor. I've had the right to a lawyer. There's been not one patch of ground in the whole world where it's been legal for me to breathe the air six years. There's been no on the planet that I could live. The world was going to die and he said I don't know how to feel. I just feel numb and I said well Steve The human brain is a lot like the Home Office. It takes a while to process things aw it's just made me acutely aware what it means to lose your rights and that's really it Steve. That's made me connect with Amnesty International because I didn't really think about it before cool and now I think you can lose them. Anything you value anything that you love is a bright and it can be taken away can be lost so we must fight for them. I'm now and we must like for other people who've lost them because we are going to. Maybe need someone to fight for us so we promised we would get back to climate change amnesty. Does he feel that oxygen is very much a human right and water not living below it a human right so it's really really important that we focus on climate change right now because we are running out of time so to discuss this this and make it fun what you're thinking. Can we get back to the bit with Jerry. Girls Surprise Terry heads talk about climate change naked a cough let touchable but Sweetie Social Monica Jackson Jamie Lee O'Donnell and school strike brought. It is clearly hello everybody such just to introduce you as not your characters are Social Jackson Aaron Cheval McSweeney replace of my Nikola coughlan who plays Jamie Leah Donald Who Plays Michelle Warren who was a real life student student here in Edinburgh she just graduated from secondary school and she is one of the Friday strikers for climate change. Can you tell us a little bit about what the global strike is yeah so the global strike started by Greg L. Mark who at the time was fifteen and she decided the her her education wouldn't matter and wouldn't be important if we didn't have a future so a year later it's been a year since the first strikes millions and millions of silicates have skipped school on Fridays took voice across we need action for the climate crisis basis and we need it now and what's happening on the twenty seven. It's a nice Google strike so instead of SCO children's striking scale which we will still be doing. We're inviting adults grandparents everyone from every generation innovations come and join us to show that we all together. We won't change amazing convenient so I'm really going to hand this over to the amazing cost of dairy girls who we have here Sertucha do you you have any questions for Ana. Obviously we get on a lot of trouble are characters and dairy gears with sister Michael. Hoy has your school been with your absence with the strikes. Thanks so personally wasn't too bad about it. I did posters taken down but we back up. We we have heard of a lot of people who have had problems one. There was one scenario in England where everyone who skipped school and five days to strike gobind from going to their prom chrome so it has been quite strict for some people and some people have like software quite turn them. What do they do it anyway no or they did anyway? I mean I think really takes a stunned says fine. Stop US going to a dance wants is just as important as being able to breathe in and out in twelve years. There's no point in having a problem if there's no oxygen and the prom it's kind of defeats the purpose of Johnson them their border. It's true it's true. It's just you know I think what Greenwich doing is incredible because she's just going. Can you not see the buildings on fire. Someone pulled the fire alarm. It's seventy five floors getting hotter and everyone's going which sheldon any that's how I saw speaking actresses. That's how she feels. You just just like why is it not running around. The scientists have said it's an emergency such I mean they do. You have any questions final yeah so you've been doing this year. It's not right and I'm just wondering you say skulking Donald Dewey thank. This has actually working. Do you fail it. There's a change since the start of the year. I feel like yeah if you had said this year that would be millions of kids striking off school because they don't government to doing people would have in your face so so in that sense yes is made a massive change and it's made a massive change in the way the people lessons to youth voices as well but more needs to be win. No no way what we've got as far as we should have done like I'll government has declared emergency but they've done absolutely nothing since then so we are in going in the right direction but no we're not far enough yeah okay but now she you need support. It's not enough. I think so many people say oh let the children do it. I here all the time the next generation Social Pankhurst guns I mean the girls see very clear that they want to vote short al organize it just so you know what I mean. If Martin Luther King had gone that fourteen year old he's probably quite keen extrordinary that we're sort of leaving it to you you so it's great that you're now saying no come join us and it works as well as get everybody else to join an Chaban yes. Do you have any questions. It's interesting that you said that rebels like Martin Luther King Go. I'm sure a fourteen year old person will have a dream just continue but I I personally am waiting for the young people source it out. That's my that's my pension that is literally what I'm planning my nieces and nephews we'll source it out for me. Why is this I mean I probably never mentioned? You probably don't know this about me. Both involved lived in the abortion rights campaign in Northern Ireland where we can teach creeds decriminalize breasts up all evening my I apologize on behalf of my breasts again. Ah The repeal movement in the republic even though there have been so many people for generations and for decades who've been working working towards this moment many many many many people it was very much a grassroots young woman led movement and I started to see the same in the north and what is it. Do you think about your generation. That's so fucking amazing that we couldn't get the job done a decade geico. Is it just social media. Can you just call each other quakers. There's amazing organizers are are you learning from other people's full not my only semaphore semaphore. We'd start bonfires semaphore. I think thank things I definitely do help. I think we're just sick of being told the our opinions don't matter that were too young then we didn't have to wait. I think we've seen so many great. The people greater there were so many activists around the world who are standing up and seeing other people do it has really motivated the rest of our scalp and do the same and and say actually no we must have just as much on a ought the to be fair as well like you're going to be here and a lot of people are going to be dead and they don't care assuming that we give twelve years last album and six so guys. You know what I mean by. How much you I like your characters not a totally token opposite four Japanese man? You'll probably Scott Hanson awesome now. I think it's partly urgency. Actually I think if when I was at school someone I'm GonNa say you got twelve years to slay climate change or it's unsolvable. I probably would've taken a Friday off but when I was at school we what firstly we weren't told about. I mean there was a little bit about Oh. Stop Using Deodorant Niccolo up say I wanted to ask you because I really embarrassing recently only realize what the impact at the fast fashion I really was not aware that a toll it was blind slot for me and I think for a lot of people but just basic practical changes that we all not could make I we all actually really need to make them now. What do you think are like the things that we could take away from here and implement? What can we do say and I think some of the main things are just released? Mood changes changes to your diet switching Washington more plant based things we're talking about meat free Mondays. That's good but it does need to be also things I mike selling your once. You're done with reusing them swapping them stuff like that instead of constantly consuming more and more. I'm reading about charity shops. Actually that was interesting. Yes so obviously that's a really good thing but sometimes they don't have enough stories. They don't have the money and stuff like that to keep them on so sometimes they do end thrown them out and was a really good answer suitable for as to send them to refugee camps and stuff like that where we know that the people will use them. We'll need them. I said to backstage. We need to make sure we say if they're suitable. Because last time I was out and Kelly they pulled out ah back a sexy center and psalmist dress and they went. You can't give this to a refugee they want like a sexy Santa Coach and they said the way to say that if it was it's a sexy bee costume and I said what you're doing with it and one of the volunteers went I took the climate council on the guilty feminist and she said the three things that you can do individually no one really wants to do one is plot based on and she's like making just enough. She said if you can go for gin if you can do as as much plot based as you can. Do I need to eat meat now. Do I really need something and try and have that to fall. If we all do eighty percent of the right things eighty percent of the time that would make a huge shift the other thing she said was flies little as you can't just think all different you've and the other one was don't have children that was the most controversial Russia want amongst the audience but Chaban who says you haven't had a child today not today her baby say nine once more on today's nearly overnight and that's a whole day that I haven't had a child so she's that base fucking equal warrior doing this. If I was like mom you couldn't say one sensible things. I don't know what we told them. We make fun just think about this mood changes that aren't GonNa make a massive difference sprint to you but in the long run will make difference and also if you can please please come along to Australia on the twentieth happening in most vacancies places to so look up online. UK Essien and it has thing will locations and if you can come along into amazing set the table strike UK sem all to find out what's happening in your and what is it ten bucks and in the meantime a big huge out of the pros the Sasha Jackson rob thanks. The shooter is serious POPs. I sometimes I think we've got to get on the same page. We don't really really always speak the same language you think you talking to somebody and you think you're on the same page but you're not and tonight is a night when we're going to get on the same page because I think the more we're all rubbing in the same direction. The more likely we reach our destination example example last night true story I was in a pub and I was trying to explain to this man who was quite harsh to be fan and the protests and marches can work and objecting come. What can I say for example like period poverty? Take a step. We did this big march amazing woman amateur and she was still at school she identified that period poverty was a problem she told Pink Protests Stolac Curtis and her gang. They told me any guilty from the split out there. We all got together. We all marked Westminster we all approaches loads of Tina's came out and guess what we've changed the law Ah for goals this is absolutely incredible and it's still a problem in other ways is because people can't afford them at home etcetera but that's really significant for seventeen year old together an army and for everyone everyone we've changed it on us. We we must paired in poverty and it works and this was a problem now is it occurred policy. It's not really a problem now period poverty. I remember it is that's the point. It was a big problem it. He's a problem in many ways and I said this is what he said. I think you should have been macho participation useful and I said but I don't understand why that's uh-huh period public teams by definition in the post period drama. Yeah I mean he was an actor so it's not for me. Seriously that happened puppets put out going close fake instead because wet people out of selling saying whereas love breath. That's what we've been doing that we have painting against the closing of all finishes nineteen hundred full fucking fucking time just to make him understand which we've administration. WHO's backed up very quietly? Come here to talk about tampons. Opponents really came home for a cheeky Hof. I mean I'm sure he was very nice man. He wasn't the everyone gets whipped up. When you come to this kind of event like right now you feel like doing something but then the next day happens and you know so you're hung over Alfonso and you've got a job to do? You've got all sorts going on and you don't so what we thought is. We want a secret policeman. I'm an activity that we can do regularly together so we came up with something called truth to power our and this happens regularly on Fridays Brian Days and we all come together for just one hour between three and four o'clock and obviously if you do it a bit before that after that it doesn't matter it's more the idea that we're going to get something trending push. We speak directly to the people who can do something so we might at the Home Secretary we might act Bolsonaro for example. We say hey this is what we want and suddenly that force gets loads of tweets at the same time or amnesty have some kind of joint email that if you click through they will send the email for you or you can sign the petition as anything Oh God how many partitions sounded really do anything but it does because if you've got a certain amount of signatures that it has to be discussed in the House of Commons we have all sorts of ways. If we are busy we can plugged honesty who worked out how speak truth to power so what you need you to do is follow amnesty on twitter at I'm UK and it's the same on instagram. I think now what you'll find is at amnesty. UK on Fridays were you will go there and you will find a truth to power our tweet which will be pinned now. What you're going to do is read the urgent action you make a video you make forty five second video or you can share a message of solidarity and you can get your followers to do the same now? This is really the trick so far is power going really well but we need you don't just have solidarity and tweet the Hustle that we've tried to tweet who's powerful but to get other people speak truth to power because that's when it will go out so you now have to ambassador as well. You have to say hey everyone. Can you help me do this because that's when we're really going to get lots and lots of people doing already already. We've found the Lord we've just started doing it without much at all and we found it works so for example they will women in Saudi Arabia who campaigns that women should be allowed to drive and eventually they campaign so well. Guess what women can drive in Saudi Arabia they changed the law Hurrah Fox what happened to the women campaign to make an example of them and say Oh we don't want more people asking for more things than prison those women and he does not nice to be in a Saudi Arabian Arabian prison like bad bad things have happened to them so we got together on truth to power to directly tweet Saudi Arabia and sent emails to Saudi Arabia. Let's say we don't want this. We won't stand for this not okay and would you be impressed. If I told you that we have reached a million people with actress para aw would you be impressed will be really impressed when I tell you that it reached twenty six point three papal twenty take three million. That's incredible. That's really incredible so we need you to get involved in power. Go there on Fridays. See what's happening and tell other the people and it's one really simple way. God what can I do. I hate being aware of things that dot com turning them. I get really frustrated. This is a really simple way that you feel you actually can be involved in something in greater than yourself where we only have one more incredible act. Put what your hands together the it's fantastic to be here me and we aren't going to sing a song by our absolute hero. The legendary Victoria Wood free freed around Barry South One night. The Sky was sleet snow. The wind was soft. The mood loser drained CO CO CO chief felt supply. She which still godless question Time Barry cringed in fear and dread as free these answer Let's do. Let's do it and do it while the mood is right. I'm feeling up. I'm on fire with a male voice. That's ED account too much discussion passionate Joneses into Novice Secrecy Episode conto account so she said let's. Let's go creative. It's it's funny is host to an IT heavy breathing days and feel colder. It's other things it's boring logo going flooring himself said let's let's do it had a crazy night of oustrip. I'll start on the job and a due account for me to dungle angle my altered sheltered holding Sharon while Romance Sir Frenetically no caution caution caution. Let's to do taught do around the house. I've got auto parts. Let's do they get drastic gymnastics last week. You Ed what do dress. I feel silly. We don't we don't choose me. Don't use me you must excuse me Uh let's J. Thank the Great. Let's do. Let's just watches. She's not make maybe on the go eh the AH punk breath get involved with truth to power follow at Amnesty. UK and and get ready to take action at three PM on Fridays. Today's action is to support the climate strikes on the twentieth of September police get involved if you would like to become part of the the movement and joined Amnesty International UK please visit Amnesty Dot Org dot UK Ford slash join if you would like to donate to help protect human rights around the world. It's Amnesty Dot Org Dot U. K. Ford Slash donate it. The and one of the boys says we just went B.'s inherently sexy because they're saving the planet. Do Doc knowing phone support. You cannot wait steak now. No no no. I think the message is don't Ebay but you can to be off messages on my right debate. He's ready to be let the beast ride the plant's. That's what it is the base ride flowers and not scoot. That's what I thought Phoebe note so so just to be very clear now. We climate the council on the on the

Scotland England Glasgow United Kingdom Kelly Steve Union Home Office google Boris Johnson Edinburgh playhouse US Anna Warren Steve Ali Hollie BBC Deborah Frances White Syria Amnesty International
#TSP108 - Siobhan Finneran

The Two Shot Podcast

2:01:52 hr | 1 year ago

#TSP108 - Siobhan Finneran

"How are you doing? I'm Craig Parkinson you. Listen to the to shop. PODCASTS at yourself down public how we'RE GONNA marry sell child this week. I'm going to tell you right now. How the Devillier a Thursday and this is episode one hundred and eight of the to shop podcast and guess? What is the last episode before? Oh Christmas is just all the last episode of course is is just the last one before Christmas. Yeah Christmas I found him he. Yeah he got. The food soared the presence. That's just one part where there but how you fading even okay. It's interesting. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day and they were saying that they fail panicky and slutty anxious about the festive period in for all sorts of reasons and I completely empathized with what they were talking about. Nicole the thing Kim that wherever we look you know we we switch on. The telly and the adverts are certain why by the way for the radium. The Christmas songs paying out happiness joy love positively go shopping it's everywhere and society and the media and the advertising industry really paints search a specific poetry of walk Christmas Chabane. Oh but we should aspire to have an our lives cheer in the festive period. And it's you know it's it's friends coming together and family and love and joy and happiness nor and of course that that's right and it's true and a lot of people have that book some people down and they can start to feel that you know the internal thermometer as it were sort of rise is open and they have very very strengthen the anxiety levels res and I was just thinking you know if you are in all you know who somebody. That's freedom either during this time then certain things that you can do and eat me. I'm no professional. This is just a friend talking to another friend so this advice of what I would do if I was in that position the so many things that can release. Release that pressure during the time. You've caught remember. You've worked really hard this year. So and you've got Christmas to so whether a relative's bringing politics to the table and you specifically said we politics during Christmas and raising raising your levels of anxiety or feign or pressure or you feel like you're drowning in you kind of calm braise remove yourself from the situation. Do you know we all of those things that we need to do. Jaren stressful moments and it can be stressful. not this fall of joy. There is lots of joint mine happens during Christmas but it can be stressful for a lot of people. So do what you need to do for yourself. Do you need to take yourself off for a walk walk for twenty minutes for swim. Swimming baths are open after Christmas. Day Do you need to do about yoga. You need to do some breathing exercises whatever ever is you do for you. Take yourself off. Release that pressure. Don't be a walk in pressure cooker because you can absolve bought over and burst need. Don't bomb that. Yeah that's why I was thinking about because You know this there is everybody you know you. pull the tally on as I was saying. It's just luck this. Everything's joy on happiness and sometimes it isn't isn't so spare a thought for those people who you feel isn't quite the perfect time. Okay I just have those as Mohammed. Thank but apart from that. How how yes? This is episode one hundred and eight more a year. What a great year a fantastic gas brilliant brutal truthful had Larry This conversation with that? We've learned so much about so many people and I'm really really grateful to every guest those come on and given the time time and for you. You know you download you tell friends on you. Spread the pocus word and that means sell almost to myself when Graf you'd know it does And I think we're just before Christmas in complain style. I'm thrilled to side the actual legend. She'll kill me for saying that. Show lighter but she has to Salvini paypal because no all star of you hear this at the beginning of the episode but if you follow us on social especially on twitter certain people and do give those less of what about this person and some people have. It's crazy we can never get those people on but the the name Chevron Finneran has been knocking about since we started. I think about two years ago people have been dropping name and I met her year and a half ago do and then I bumped into this year the exchange in Manchester the he pressed for Simon Stevens is new plan. She was with a friend of mine and I saw reintroduce myself from started talking and she mentioned that she really enjoyed enjoyed the podcast. And obviously that's like red rag to a bull from and I'd love to come on and she said Yeah and within a few wakes we'd saw the day out I had a few days off just a bunch of stuff a podcast and And we sat down amount and we had a good couple of hours. It was brilliant. I've really got an hour and you're going to get to of course now from things like Downton in Abbey and the incredible Happy Valley But this being the podcast. Of course we don't talk about work we talk about the the person and you're going to get to know her bright now so let me say that we are in Manchester. We're in my apartment. It is at the culture plaques which is native which is almost articles replace just piccadilly in Manchester and. She won't longtime tomatoes and I got a very lovely coffee from downstairs and we hit record and we started the conversation so please sit back enjoy. This is your time this is episode one hundred and eight of the to shop podcast with the remarkable Shiva on Finneran and joy. La The end right so sometimes and it does happen over the course of like two and a bit years that we've been doing this and people go about sewn. Sounds Camman about this person to come on and this is great and we welcome things last night sometimes impossible to take them upon because the congress will cause the dead I can't get Meryl Streep to call. I mean I'm sure code but things the things difficult but there's one name that's always popped up and is your name that's true it's chap so that you and I want yet no. I'm making cheval because I was going to speak to wet when we'll said he lives. Now you you always think about the connections of people got them on so I'm really Claes. These said yes please. You have listened to have you. I'm not making up to you. Know what you can host ride account. I have listened to all right. Good where are you. How'd you fail fail about because you just said before we started recording about so of press interviews and stuff out you find those things now the palm parcel of the job? Well they are part and parcel the talking about the job But if the start delving into stuff that you don't want to talk about I just find it awkward. I also embarrassed. I'm embarrassed Paris by. I'm embarrassed by if they want to know about any processes to fly that I find that difficult to talk about at the time and also the usually I she shit questions Dantley or stop question. Yeah Yeah so which ad think anybody's interested are they. It's like when they do the do the behind the scenes footage or if you're on a job they go we're going to. We're going to kind of behind the scenes interview. You've I think who's actually interested in watching this. I can understand them into the process of light. The makeup team the customer team that all the departments but what she was sitting around Vanilla which is what we. Let's be honest. Who wants to watch? Yeah I think people want to watch bloopers because that's my interest. I want to watch bloop funny funny yet. Yep I'm not sure people are interested in learning the by well. I felt that morning going into work in. WHO's made a little bit next to each one create? I find I find it embarrassing embarrassing when I watch people talk about activities. Yeah that's I don't that's why we've started off talking about this. That's why I don't talk about that because that's not of interest to me and because I see myself as much as an audience members do an interview I embarrassed I even heard. Yeah so I want I want to know about the person rather than anything else. Because then we can all relate to yeah Alcan. How can when day from nothing works a Garden Center? You know connect to the way I approach to say lies. I rarely go resolve. Yeah Yeah and did you have well. They kind of want to know if you've had a good time when they do that thing is an did anything funny happened on say is. It's those things that I just think. Yet a million funny things happened onset. But I don't want to talk to you about them one because a Be Arrested or the person I was with would be arrested. Oh just and just kind of like not really. That's not really what it does not really what I'm talk about to talk about the job and to promote the job in finding difficult I find it difficult an embarrassing and don't like them I I don't like the press out of you always find that don't like what about people. So what because the taken out of context take context owed. God just aren't very nice very kind about people at the time so yeah I think it's like the press over the they do tend to have that process of building people up and then as soon as the road white and knock him Dab -solutely. Yeah Yeah and that's real big in it yet and I'm sure they've costs of files and files on so many different but I know that somebody from people and then as soon as the Ri- opportune moment right. Get that story out that we out from eighteen months ago because this time this is the time tonight spread that maybe shit all over them. It's Hrubesch don't like it much ruin people's lives a little cla bit more. Yeah because there are obviously a great time so let's just like a little bit better for themselves. It doesn't matter about the special okay. I usually say things like well let it out. I'M NOT GONNA fleets. I won't educate that. You've just signed the contract the band. Let's talk about Oldham. Ya Talk about growing up yeah. I grew up in Manchester really for the. I went from being little those in my memories of being in Manchester at my grandparent's house in Chilton come holiday A Moment Dad. We moved to The SEINFELD Saddleworth. When I was a by I think six or seven but still spent all my weekends in Manchester so with Margaret and Harry buildings in a merger bank avenue in Chilton was it wasn't just me and my brother and then there was I My mom sister who had six girls while yeah really busy and I was the eldest of if that those the disgruntled so yeah six straight away. Obviously that would be something of a miracle Mazen. Yeah as much AS Roma's Catholics. Even that that pushing the boundaries a little bit but Yeah there were six of them so we were all which I spent most weekends Down Emigrant. GRANDAD's I think mom and dad went. I think that's what it was. It was their night out on Saturday night. So they'd go out with me on a memorable. Stay at my grandma Granddad. So good relationship you common gun that. Oh yeah they were up. They were really fantastic. Yeah yeah no they were great on a think I remember them being grateful and as a kid and my grandma loved the theater. Talk of Detroit. which is where I think? He probably came from the apart from wanting attention from make my grandma for blue light attention as well and I think God it quite a lot of the time but only down so genetic to the theater on your younger she. Yeah she did which is really weird she. She was a a seamstress that's what she did the from salt at my mom's family from Salford without family Mina but my mom's family from Salford with Irish So my great grandparents were Irish Mom Sidon and she was a seamstress may grandma and I think until she got married and then had the kids in them was a housewife but she always always looked the theater high she went. I'm sure she didn't go very often as a kid as she got older she she liked going to the theater. Uh and also like doing them re this is really weird went to like Acoustic did like a voice and speech. Course no really weird because it doesn't count we don't we don't know where that came from but she just obviously loved it and part of this voice and speech I used to do the trip to Stratford upon Evan. The home of William Shakespeare in case listeners. Know that and she didn't she didn't have companion with a really so she taught me so I probably started going only only maybe once or twice a year if that maybe once a year when I was about eight to see these productions they are essay. I got A. You've got fucking clue what was going on. I had no clue what was going on but for me it was a a trip on the train with grandma to Stratford. And at the end of the show we used to go and have fish and chips or something tweet in a cake. So that was the trip for me. Even though you didn't understand `and what was going on. Yeah quite right. I mean my boys. I don't stomachs going on now by the way either sometimes though saves Shakespeare now but but sometimes they don't make accessible sometimes the due to scrape by what my little boy now. I'm ain't have no idea what would make. I do. Take him to certain stuff art galleries and things of doing that with my money little but his lie ill get from it. What he gets from? Yeah took him to the Antony Gormley recently this summer and we just and his quite overwhelming instructors really amazing stuff. An attack took him to grace earlier. In the year on this island and Anthony Gormley these structures accessory other solve connection with going anywhere and it was just looking at some of his stuff on the Warner settlements. So we'll have a look that what. What does that make you feel? An adequate colonial to come is habits. But lots more than two when you went to the there is you know he didn't understand and was it. What did it make failing them as a spectacle about it? Th- that you love door. We just thinking about the fish and chips on the show. I think it amongst I was probably think at the fish and chips we always like Mahfoud. The must have been something went in the must've been something sitting in what to me was. It was an alien environment going but it was a great environment to be in watching these people up doing something. I didn't really understand book getting a big clap at the end and I would I obviously understood bits of it and could follow it and would find the humor in it and you know if some deal is doing a clowning around or do pratfall. Wherever I'd get all of that business but a recently cleared me? lofton found a loaded. The programs that had managed to kate and are so he led to Jackson Play Cleopatra. No Yeah Yeah Wow. I don't remember that at all over you did and I was there. Yeah Yeah so yeah so all of that so I think that's that's Yeah that's where that's where it sort of came from that and my love of amyloid sweets and drink play but there is something. I always always connect going to the cinema. When I was young with Romance Yau's read this one through very romantic about the lights coming down? Yeah I suppose you can got with there as well. Although cusp is very glamorous Roswell away your kids because you don't and it takes site in and there's a there's a great atmosphere so all of that that must've rubbed off on main and also not something that you would do. Not where I come from. It's not something you would do once a week. I mean it was a Well like I say I think that was I don't remember. I don't remember a toll going to remember going to see a puppet show a puppet puppet show that my mom took his kids to say. Is Your Story Peach in the wolf. That's the rest Mr Integral just about a week. There was that that story when we went to see that as a as a puppet show as kids and being quite you know enthralled thrilled with that but apart from that doubt remember go into told remember going to the pitches may be whoever pitches again with my grandma seiichi bounding and still terrified absolutely terrified. I never could never go on without really still is quite scaring. Tee will the the the overall film of quite couldn't connect with as adults it if I'm wrong and it wasn't just the child catcher. Yeah I mean he was part and parcel of it but I didn't bio no found it quite creepy. Yes is another podcast now but it is actually quite crazy traffic but again we see food plays a part in mind because we got a box of fruit hostels at the cinema can remember that really cold. Don't do those anymore on this box. Maltesers yeah again. This is another plug. Sorry sorry to food reminiscent show. Yeah so the I I did the the most been something I enjoy. I really enjoyed me days out but again like you say it wasn't something that happened once a month it. It was probably once one year and there may be a couple of times a year after I can go once going down to the mission. The there was a there was a television series. Is that minimum was obsessed with Coal Richmond and the one of these trips clashed with the last episode of that have been allied to half what cheer even. Don't think minimum really thought it should have been doing and I commend being a bit pissed off thinking right. I'm going to the grandma and the train but I'm actually going to miss the last episode the Richmond pullman priorities change. So what did you what would you. What do you do for a living? She's a teacher minimum. Yeah she's a teacher so wish you through the school you went to which was terrible due to. Yeah Oh oh how awful when I think back your if I look at it now ago. What a terrible thing to do to a child because at behave breath for all the way through infant school and junior school? Because my mom would now if there was anything going on at school. Because it'd be discussed in the stock room spread like wildfire awful awful. I can remember saying things like you know. Apparently today at school I've been telling you know apparently today at school and there was some silly children play in all old join on for I mean it could have been anything join on for kissing boys girls or even the classic old join on for pulling goes knickers dine. Yeah that what did happen when I was at Jimmy School am why was that game so oldest. Who thinks she she could just ship? She could just say that's another podcast. Yes sorry. I'm really sorry she could just say that the tea table without saying were you involved. What was happening at all Mississippi Eddie said today that there was some not kids bub-bubba to she wouldn't have to necessarily tell me off but just I was aware that she was aware that may may be been in trouble that day or telling them that she was the oracle bills? So that was not. I didn't have a bad time but I'm Oscars was behaving myself so blood impeccably Nagoya says she was it was a teacher she took like the first year of infants. I don't know what what is called. It'd be year two or something. I don't know what it's called gay or whatever we'd been like infant WanNa something So she did that. I'M A dad. Dad is done every job is going really really as a taxi driver still. So he's not one of those growing up. He was pools. Monica led to the football pills on Friday. Night it's the pills round. It was the teacher on point so he went to retrain as a teacher. I was probably about eight or nine. Roy didn't do not for very long them worked for Catholic Rescue Society. I don't know if they're still does still exist. And worked in were witten Homes really full. I think then it would have been described as bad lads which of course was not the case told me they'd be described as kids who are at risk all vintage yet that kind of stuff but em. It did that for quite a long time. He's done everything. There is to do and joys so of eroded enjoy so of moving from job to job trying to find auditing. He was frustrated and the fact that he couldn't sell and different jobs. I think he's it just always well. He's always were is always just worked hard so I think a lot of time especially doing his Cabbie in which he still does now all the of the office is done. It was always to make sure it was earning a living. I think maybe is adventure into teaching. was probably something he thought he should maybe do because he was. I suppose maybe because it was a regular the job I don't know but after Kim Sarin cuffing I'd have to ask him but em don't it just I don't think he liked that side of it. I don't think he liked the the as much as you like working with young people. I don't think he really enjoyed the teach inside of it. So Maybe because he couldn't do enough yeah whereas whereas working in the homes are supposed to be called here I was GonNa say hostels but homes. He could maybe do a bit more to help their bit. More one to one to dealing with classes is a probably thirty arcades school Strange ways in Manchester. So right there will have been a lot of tricky to keep school environment. Tricky problem case with a problem Sean especially around the area says the yeah quad logged out now thing. Yeah think so but I am. Yeah so neither. Neither them mome was quite arty. You know she's Great Adroit INSA flight that but neither neither of them any great great interest in the theater new draw one. Can I ask still joined statement. Things got passed downed. Well that missed not missed by a long shot. Yeah no no. I'd love to. I'd love to have been able to drill matoco to terrible. I realized yeah controls. I Belive I did try. But it's one of those things I think I know you. Can you believe either. God you've got something very oven. Yes some kids can just did it come to just literally sit scribbling and it's like today. It's a masterpiece has to pace or my friend's daughter is I think she's around eight now and she threw something near the year sentimental. So did she do that and I showed it to an artist. I said I'm going to show to an artist from pneumonia. Said look this. My friends did it and clocked seven at him and and he won. She should stick during this states. He's got something here. Yeah I did trace added chasing stuff because that's eight tries. I was thrilled when those. What were those scrape affoil things you know? You just scraped off the thing in the colour came from underneath. Remember we used to do our own. Ovation needs to be a piece of paper needs to read the yellow their Crayon and then a black hole over too long too lazy Lazy Very Very Lazy Newsday stick and Lazy we school Also now I'm just trying to accommodate quite lazy. I the war no was alright. Well infant school because I was watched live my mother and I think by the time I got to secondary school I was like Oh we we go. I can never be fun night. Do Fail at a sense of relief. Yes I think so. Yeah only looking back at the time I didn't. I didn't think that but yeah I can have a bit for now and get on with. Why wouldn't get on with an have a laugh and was very interchangeable so did a lot of school? Yeah so that took over really. My education took over the academics. I was going to talk about the academic side. You can talk about economics. I it's a very short conversation though I'm not I'm not stupid but I certainly wasn't a genius either so a Yeah I go into sports really heavily so played for all of the school teams in whatever it was us really was ever going to become a career career. Yeah I did yeah. Yeah well by the time I got to fight the fourth year school which of course is not the fourth year anymore it was my fourth year start have increased lessons. Don't you and stuff like that and the was the WHIZ. Because I didn't because I saw wanted to go into acting but I didn't know how you did that because okay I didn't know anybody that it you know so cheap so I think I saw your mom or dad to do or definitely whatever an Cole also thin or an anti that light doing it so they could explain to you what you needed to do. It doesn't seem to e can't say as a viable career in that state because we all know anybody sterling. I don't know what the next step is to dinner. Yeah and isn't that was just a fun job. You do actually get paid for doing that when she was you know. Yeah I didn't I didn't understand any of that. So we had careers checks over creates lessons and we have to fill in like a questionnaire you know by what what you wanted out of a job or you know what kind of people you wanted to work with what age April pissed off days. Just nice the justice is just nice people. Please kind of what their age remember. Age Range by fifteen fifteen or just want to hang out with fifteen donor. But I'm you know web where you want it to work in the world is like all over the World Bank's yeah. That's what we all wanted to do. All that kind of stuff and the two things that came up at the end of mine he put all this information and then the to the to the job due to job choices came but the end and mine will librarian when she's still funny and actress which is still way because that's what managed to fill in obviously advances in in a bizarre way. Those are the two jobs that came out books because because I was going to spoil when taught my home to the creates teach insurance Librarian Sushi. Thought there's no chance could have to be quiet for a lot of her life life and that's not going to happen an actress and of course I think she thought that so. That's something that she doesn't want to you know we don't we don't know she's got the the the the information to give me as careers teacher to go. Well this is what you need to do. Maybe think about doing this. So I mean she's a careerist shoes Christie the knowledge book and she started talking to me about the fact that did love sports and also that it at the time I was I was also quite interested in working with kids with special needs as as it was then And so she we're too so I work experience so she completely totally dismissed librarian. Which I'm still a bit pissed suffered because I think I would have been in our I? She dismissed librarian an actress and started pushing me towards work experience in a local local school. Right and saying you know there are jobs you could go in and you could go in and work and using your sports knowledge knowledge. You could go with with children with disabilities but in in doing sports activities and all that that kind of stuff and so I ended up going and doing my work experience at school not at the local theatre or in the library at a special school so that was a that was floating about him head for wild And it wasn't until I think right I until towards the end of school suddenly a think somebody. I don't know who said to make what you can actually go and do. Theater Studies Kirsch Oldham Oldham College. It's like a performing arts theatre studies. 'cause there's like why why didn't dimension that has that careers now in the different. What were you thinking? Time is just great and also it was like then that you could do is all it was was actually a proper course. It wasn't like a joke. It was a proper curse so I applied to go on that and had to go for meeting in an interview and stuff and go offered to place but you had to have passed euro levels fry tricky by that stage shaky about sixteen in when no no interest whatsoever in school year. Just a great interest interest in Cape Play in sports. I was playing and boys obviously hanging out with mates having a laugh get mad. It could every two weeks good things. He's really really valuable things that you supposed to do. In the a call them life lessons absolutely yeah. I good a couple of haircut life lessons. Yeah so you have to remember Minneola together. But it didn't get them anyway. I got me English level a mingling sleep and I think I got three. I can't remember either. Almost remember to anybody listening doesn't matter because I can't remember but it wasn't enough to get on this course so Then spent the summer with my dad in secretarial courses in front of me going. Jesus no come on. You've got to look at this now because God a May thinking about I don't do that and then women Dad's saying to me. Well if you if you determined to go on this course you're GonNa have to go to college and reset. Uram them while they were at can't remember what were all of. GPS's think CBS's GPS's enough to go back to college and Reset your exams and do twelve wounds three sitting your exams so that is why to do the most miserable. Yea I think of mid life not thus far but at that point I was like Oh God this course mates it all on their co says you know they would do in some fashion design. Some did all ah in this great time and I moved on. You've gone back here. I come back with you to go backwards recently. Exams so Oldham College. I did it there so that was great because I was still around. People are new Yeah I to reset them. I did call down. Get Your because you've got to. Yeah no so I find it. I find it Just find easier. You know just daft thing no uniform note and the teachers were kind of you mate. So of didn't call you by second. I'm call you by I and I'M GONNA call them by the first name. It was just a more relaxed atmosphere to For me to work learning and adult I think I did English literature. All everything there whereas it school they'd said a will 'cause the way they work out the the the subjects I couldn't do English lit Ole to do English CIS CIS as cold time saying to one of the teachers at parents evening. It's the only thing she actually enjoys doing. Why can you not put her in the the old level group because I think he even a c long was an Ese? Wasn't a thing that's how it used to work bucking days with dinosaurs. Walked the earth. Guys I think I think that's I think that's what it was So mom was kind of trying to say to them. This is the only subjects that Sean actually is going to even bother to do any work in these because English lit we sat and read plays as poetry and it was a more creative class as opposed to just sit in the united but I am so. Why did English lit or level? I did history sociology and SASCO see. I can't remember anything. Described remember the unjust sailed through them. So that I could go to this to me now. It's funny you say in about reset in that year and even though Veena. I'm sure you weren't really happy doing that year but it was a relaxed much more relaxed atmosphere. Yeah you got it. Don't now I think sometimes we put too much pressure Asia. Schools now does terrify in. I remember my to having to do spelling tests at five. I've been doing them for years. I I mean not many up into our. Yeah but it doesn't. If you a semi kids would would fail to learn it that week and some of the words Belykh why they why they have to learn how to spell. I can't remember no eden bicycle you go Bigwood for five hundred zero and unity and learn it and then if you ask them to spell it the week after they wouldn't other clue because it was in one night the other thing crammed him for that and they'll know it from learning from one shooter to the following shoes. Yeah Yeah rally down. Then they'll do a test and then it's gone. Yeah so but I think like you. I think the pressure is on Interior. Naturally some kids are just. It's not at that level. Do not the not ready to do that. Learn in every child is and should be on a different level learning. I always just Saito Mina. Said you can't be everything. Take the pressure off our focus on what you really love to do. Yeah you obviously got off on the mccray if side of instead of Sore scribbling Donald Salmon. That's what people put the spotlight on him. Focus on that and nurture that we the addled we just can't we can't accommodate that though in within the school situation company controls. Twenty of the kids in the class suvival different Gifts and stuff. So yeah find a find that just it just makes me sad. That kids are going through that and all the pressure. That's on them when when it comes to the the big exams you know and then they don't commute. Some kids are coming out with nine eight stars and you know Brazil the kids those kids that just by scraping by just. It's 'cause you there already been made to feel like they've failed sixteen years of age which shit don't be much. You can carry that with you for a long time you to everybody's at different levels as we know those exam environment. I'm some people just turned on that. Just yet there in that moment was some people just crumble. EA as things are spread out over. The course everything's marked over a certain amount of time. Yeah for me that I mean obviously for me. That would be much better. That would have in probably bad for me as well and I think it was. It was monsoon. Did some of his exams like that where it was kind of course where it for two years but then they changed it literally. Madonna did hers the changed it so it was just a sedan exam Some kids lie. Just aren't good at that that type Good put in that situation. Got To now you've now got to perform to the best of your ability in the next two I was doing my what's been going went on before it doesn't matter what is going to go on. After a just absolutely but shorter you got a a truer view of what somebody's life skills. Yeah over the Space Time Yakushi do or just well yes. It's them but then I could now start banging on about self tapes in our stupid business. Become let's talk about anything but that thing about like you just said you know you've got Oh to do your best in this tomb with an exam. Cy were. You've got to do your best give you give best in two minutes with themselves type that somebody's in March but not not seeing you and they're not turn to work out then if they can with you if you can wear them they just see in and you're into predation of of what they what they of that character of that you know where you would start. It's not even an then product. No no but also I remember saying to people exactly what you signed a two way thing will people. Yeah I WANNA WANNA meet people in the room. Yeah 'cause we might go on paper while this person looks great then you may you know we don't click. Yeah Yeah Yeah yes. It's CIA but only word that I think I hadn't even that I think my agent said to us by you know will you might not like the wall. Well the auditory on the light to go in and go. Do you know what that was. That was nice book. I don't think we're going to work together. Get very well. Oh yeah sometimes the opposite happens where you go all I think we we really got to work with them. When you go on? We re this. She's Hrubesch were sent two different embassies miles apart. The I Yeah and then you just got to make the best of a bad situation. Yeah Yeah don't you don show and get a five learn the calm. That's just jump forward that while we're on a source of Anyway about auditions our with auditions. Not Great get. I just got very get very nervous styled yeah. I'm hoping that that's going to eventually eventually go away. But I don't know I mean I think now I know what I'm doing when I'm at work I think with most most actors were all weigh in for some data tip upon set up on the shelter. Go right you're up and I know you're having a great time. You look very nice and you cost Jimbo you can go on. Because she's not cause you not. Actually you know you don't actually know what you do all of those kind of things. We all have a think we do. Anyway oh I think the I think everybody still gets anxious. And we're still so in an audition situation. If you go in you go in to try and impress the person USA the opposite and to try and show them in whatever time limit. You've got that you can do that job to the best of your ability and anything can be go in a new world on it you know really day and actually you've just got to summon up somethin' from somewhere to go in and go the next half and hour. I've just got to try and convince this person that I am actually saying. Even though I'm falling apart all and that I can play this par- era and anything can happen in that situation. I've been in lows and annot mates as well waltz into an interview and so in in the heads been thinking. Can we just do the script. 'CAUSE muchly they're in that space now where I could just go at this and they start chatting Te- about life hyphen. Whatever and one little thing can just not your balance and then say go right? Can we look at these scenes. And what do you think about this an older time. He's thinking can we just read them live place because then we thought that by the way I mean a thing we can do some. I think you know we all know what their intention his. We'll have a little chat and we'll just get relaxed. Yeah we're going through it whereas not conducive. I'm I'm ready to go so we'll do that with the BAFTA. Yeah or maybe we just want to toll absolutely the dreaded question what we've been up to just yeah because my mind was very clear on these gopher group will hold what out to cry of been doing a lot of crime that I yeah. I've just tended to sit in my bedroom on the David. Cry Goad cry this week. But I've learned these lines so yeah I know what you're talking about. Yeah that cannot use anything like that could not you awfully you. You gotTA show in off whatever's going on in your life just to focus on that for that moment think Komo spe again again I think that's that's that's I think we can. We can do that as a lot of the time going right. I can just go in inhabit somebody else's he's head knife at ten minutes not think about what's going on in my world. I do that sometimes. Yeah because not just everything on the other person and listen to them. Yes you're on a job and you have not a cold. I'm Ben L. Age as soon as you finish your you just saw release allows you to be Yes pa about yeah that world as well so I'm at probably probably a I mean you you sometime. You can't get away with it all the time Kenya. And if you're if people used to you being in having fun and being chatty and all of those things and if you're not like that you then can be spending the day dreading the question if somebody comsumption goes. Are you alright because actually. I'm not very good at Lyon either knowing actually no. I'm not great today. But the not necessarily wanting to discuss just whatever's going on but just saying now or bit quiet or just not feeling myself so I'm someone without I'm I'm not exactly. Yeah I will go more anyway. So and then I'll give that. Yeah yes I know. Why from the defense? Yeah good good good good getting higher and not really really good good you please. Just Stop Tokens. Oh c'mon Alex I wanna go and hide but yes oppose. We are good at doing that. And actually like just said we've got that facility to be able to go. Actually I can go into it today and pretend to be somebody else with all of their problems and worries oral of their joys and under with the lighter. Yeah you have to go back to the real world kinda healthy. Sometimes I think it probably is an even those days we go. The last thing I want to do is do this right now. Yeah I just got I'm just GonNa get through this saying yeah. Go not pulled out so bad. I got through the one of launch carry on through. Well you being paid to be there. So is that the thing that work ethic thing of just going. I actually can't go home of got to be here because I'm contracting to be am being paid but actually quite light to just be somewhere else right now but in a way it's really about ah choices being taken away from me. 'CAUSE we've not like we do things where you can just pick up the phone off advised Donald. Yeah all Boskin come in your leg but before we have to go into. Don't you really to be sent home after. Look at Yengo no you are you like is actually hanging off your to. Did you WANNA combine to work. Just Malek's my leg is actually hanging off Harvester. Yes Oh yeah. What was that when you work on the farm? There was a bit like school though when I wanted to get off school I was going to show that you really. Oh Yeah I know yeah. It was far easier easy to do much easier to do. Or just lie against the radiator and then say tim among really match black. You boil in metrics the doctors. Yeah you want a fine line extend Bluefin it is not like easy you say but somebody said to me. Oh God twelve hundred a lady. I don't I didn't really know and was chatting to me about work and stuff and said to me. Oh it must be. It must be hard at that. You know pretending to be somebody else all day and I deduct thing where you go you know you know. Do you not take that classic. Do Not Take that at home with you and you go closer. Don't take with me now is finished one up finish work get in the car get driven home. Thank you very much. It was only that literally literally a couple of days ago I thought but she and she started to try and get into going yet. But you you. If you've had today where you've been playing as I've done a they of you know mother of dead children's still fly that I shake off because you've actually really had to had to inhabit hobbit somebody else's head you know look and I was still doing the thing going. Yeah but it's you know it's not operate on some dino surge news to you you know be careful about what the you know but it was any after thought. Yeah that's not is not that great for our brains. Don't don't think it's always always that great for our brains to be going because our brains are really complicated. Aren't they. Bits of them have been reading quite a bit about the brain over the past couple days. There's bits of our brain that hold onto stiffen can't decipher whether that's it's actually happening or it's not happening so pretending to be the bereft. Mother of a child has been murdered for three months. What Baby Abi Brain is going to really fight the logical bits got to fight? The that's going own. Should I be worried about this still here. Because I'm I'm I'm experiencing these feelings all these real feelings. I don't know if this is a real old of that is so powerful. Yeah absolutely sometimes it. You can run away with you absolutely so you must retain something. Yeah why should have been a librarian. Let's be honest. Go career states. who was onto something was she clearly was? I is about filtering and about our filter out and if we can do that if we're capable of doing that which we all hope to be capable of doing as we get older but still think you know when we return awesome. Yeah Yeah do you think it was only when she asked that question. You really thought about. Yeah which is weird into. I'm in my fifties. I know but sometimes it only takes one long question tonight and it doesn't have to be something that takes one question to make you really thought about it. Like how delved into the showed the nuts human Robert. Oh absolutely yeah go back to the theater cost. Yes sorry just kept. She started the started a great time. It was it was it was two years. It was a-levels levels as well so is doing the Level in English I level but it was It was a great cause because a lot of the courses that ah the that were at the time didn't do a lot of Public shows didn't do of shows whereas we tended we did one I think have returned thing. That's right so we do purely source for won't join US all academics atole. No it was it was it was a performing. I'm an artist as well as performing arts coast. You know we did. We did done same with it saying the and then we did a activists as well so we did. We did show so sometimes one-term would maybe do show that we used to be cool like highlights which were uh-huh which were selection musicals and we do maybe three numbers from saith five musicals so They were good for neighbor. Always correct great fun. So you'd be you know we do. We go from doing bits from west side story to bits from God spelled two bits from to think of stuff I did when I was there guys and dolls and then we we might the next term. We might be doing a very serious play. Yeah so it weren't like that but it was again only knives looking back it was it was probably a really good insight for me is too high. This business works works way because because the level of disappointment that the you kind to have to come up with the I came up against and you've got to just keep you gotta keep going. Yeah but you don't have to keep going if you want to do it. You've got to keep going so there was I've told this story by fifty to seventy two thousand times in fact makes no Please tell it a gun because I I if Avert Vert Outer Stop Your I don't think Hewlett but I'm you can throw something up one term we would do in Two productions addictions at the same time so like in rat a movie deal in a midsummer night's dream a movie even a great play cold dark dark of the moon. The dark of the moon which is all about a witch boy falls in love with a human and you know is granted is turned into a human human. The I don't think he can remember the play. This is going really well. But loads of parts in that like a million parts in that an amid some extreme so loud applause loads of power law diaries all of that ferries in that one that was which is also New Zealander was angry neighbor in dark than others. All of those there was a there was two classes was probably fifty. Odd Kids May so the casting these two productions so the cast-list eventually went up because we all and it was that classic. The American team move is where the Catholics goes up on the world scale park. All all that business. Yeah we got to the we got to the lifts going up and there was a crowd of people and people you know. Oh I've got I've got and I was promptly lie. The fat one at the back. Actually she'll phone with to the front of the queue to go onto a half one of our look down scandal and the whole cast list of dark the moon. My name wasn't on the atoll. So add an Eden. God you know angry. NEIGHBORS UNCLES WIFE's best friend. I hadn't even got. That was nothing of me. Piskun down amid some light stream thinking have not got you know have not optimistic. Eighteen year old. If I've not got a part in that pops up got really nice. Part in in in midsummer night's dream year started to scandal. Now nothing nothing. Nothing look into all the parts. Nothing Nasional get to the mechanical 's start going down the Mechanical Ze L.. Haley go unnoticed. My name next to Tom sniped right now. If that's the the name Thompson him so right right so now that you can really laugh is fine. uh-huh so going. Why not only have a knock God apart in on this in the play? I've I've got partying and playing a bulk. I'm playing a blow back lecturer mark. I think people were kind of like doing that thing. You Really Shave your I and I was doing that thing. Yeah yeah known find remember going home and sits sits in the kitchen minimum. Making the tea and Chessington I was like oh I didn't I'm just playing Of just got one in emit tonight stream and and of course she was carrying on making the taste. Well let's go to. You know who who over wrong wrong answer. Of course you should be saying you. You should have been to Tonya. My Darling of cushy should have been done all of that but my mc let college teacher Cajoles Electric Mark Saints me or you or I may go in doing that brave thing going. Yeah Yeah No. It'd be great great. I'm saying to the biggest backhanded candid complement of. It's just that we didn't. We didn't know anybody else who didn't know any bill suit could do that. You didn't know you could play blow. I don't I don't know how well if she's going. I'm quite is quite difficult eighteen. I'm quite obe away I'm eighteen. I'm quite boy. I'm really struggling here as it is with my life. But thanks for tanks reading because I can play great bloke and I should be pleased with that so I think as opposed at the time. It wasn't a lesson that I wanted to be learning book. You know how it some. I suppose that disappointment. Then you just go. Both that is that is a lot of this business. It is no. I don't look like a Princess Cheval and so you're not going to be playing at Princess. You not going to be playing affair eight. You're going to play one of the mechanical which is really funny PA Miya area and you'RE GONNA do. Well Nikonov laughed even before and it'll be great and you know so. Just get over the disappointment disappointment of the fact that you're not involved in the rest of it but you're going to be in this and that's that that was a good. I suppose it was a good lesson. Did you didn't fail at the time I'm though or do you think is just devastated. It was just really devastated and did that. Whole thing is so this is something I actually could play that on? You know. I think he did a lot of that. A just get used to it. I get used to it and disappointed when you should come for paypal. Wanted to you know. Try and forge a career. Yeah I Anson. 'cause yeah 'cause you do have to get used to that Do we ever get used to though at Athena. I think we get well. I find it easy much easier to just to just go over the years to go for a meeting and it finishes is when the meeting or you are a bit better but a bit better than I was. Obviously the psalms few ego for new go. I would love off-topic I'll at that but if it's not fair it's not for you as a gun controls taken out your Angeles one and A. and throw you out in the ring as best he can. And if the decide to pick it up the Dilbert if the tone yeah yeah what can you do that. Nothing you can do. I was saying to mentor in this young lady. WHO graduated this year? And you've been finding a very allergy zoom up. Lots of phone calls with them is very sweet overly loud and he offered a job when I was a tour for something. He's turned it down a said. No I didn't think he was. The right thing said great. That's good because you've got the power. The power is that you've got to say. Yeah I say to so many people think he's vital the AMA learn as much by saying no As you come by saying yes to something you know got claw back a little bit of control so we do but sometimes it's a relief in the relief in going all I'm thinking about it. This is all doing worrying about this instead of just going. That's that's fantastic. Yes when to star you worry ego award by this what about that. What you go essentially go? I'm not GONNA do it. You start you stop Old that worrying stop early. Stop all those questions. You stop a lot. I'M GONNA be able to do this if we do that. Is that just go on to do it. But then you've just got to sit with your decision decision to go. I made that decision. I felt relieved about it now. I've got to move on from you. Know if it's the right decision 'cause you go you go doesn't live here. I think he had a very very rarely. Yeah very rarely yeah you can get yourself confused you very very very easily. I Tori has gone but it did so I did that too. Because and then and then Start a an applied because because it was so then in the teaches they're going right the next step on his P to apply Fort Drum School in this that near this out. I was massively excited about doing that. the three years another three years of delicious or I thought would be delicious training and being given emplaced read and being taken to the theater and fish and chips obviously on the way all of that business with like minded people role you know so very excited about that and then find that you have to pay to do that in the first place so I think my mom and dad and they were to work in the local news agency. What's in the news agents from being about fourteen so but now what's in the news is on? Yeah it's good job on earth I ad most of the sweet cancer Yomitan. Yeah me too bogged to smoke in the bedroom. Oh really good I never got to do that. I did get absolutely hammered one. Christmas Eve Watt work. Yeah not good really not good crush through the front door. My Mom's was like aw what we've been doing those flights diffusion so we are absolutely helmet homage room Christmas anyway so started applying for drama school moment data. Think I think this is a rhythm and kind of like okay. But you can't apply to all of them because it was maybe twenty quid. Probably not even if it was maybe twenty quid to to just apply and then of course it be a case of going down on. The train may be up to stay over in London. So mony mony mony Yasser was a case. I think they said you can do though they would pay for me me to audition for three an I paid to him for the fourth one so I applied to and of course I didn't really know where to apply so I just applied to the ones that attorney debate so I applied to Roger and Roger Guilt old central and drama. Santa because drama center was the one that Bit Alternative and a bit you know and I thought again. I'll go that because that looks a bit different and so did mail additions for those. was there anybody helping you with guidance for for the auditions or we just do any kind of your own book. Well there was a bit. There was help college because because of course I'd been doing been doing Pieces you know. Would you to do. Sometimes we'd have to do like you know. Go off and learn a Shakespearean Queen and something else you know. Then would you after so. We'd have to the rest of the group Roy Indefinitely in front of the teachers and so the was held there was there was the help that there was like fifty thousand I think forty five Rollo dish. Ninfa John Moscow. So you know and you could do as far as you could. Do you do with your mates and stuff and get them to give you a bit of a clue as to what was going on book a really when a thing. But I really wasn't prepared to go and do what was what was so of expected you know domain and also when I think back the The pieces that sometimes the there was set pieces. The schools were saying. You've got to do one of these and you can do something of your own a modern piece to bring your own models. But you've got to choose of these three Shakespearean in pieces. I'm going to think about now. Remember Meal Additional Drum Center which was which was like nightmare was. It's like a living nightmare. 'cause it was one of those where I got there and it was a room quite quite a packed room of people and then I was taken. Lighten into the audition room which was like the size of a football pitch with a panel. You know the table the long table mile away from the stage the young lady take me in the back of the room and I was on stage. And they they just think that one of the Shakespearean pieces of you. You know whichever ones that suggested we are to do. One of them was a was a queen account. Remember what she was obviously supposed to be about seventy I mean completely and utterly ridiculous eighteen year old girl trying to pretend to be an eighteen year old shakespeare. A An eight year old Shakespearean Shakespearian Queen. So did that and just there was just nothing. There was like there was a silence trouble because it was awful. Fold what just done but still but still any just this big islands and then for modern piece. Oh my God decided to do. I don't know why I thought this was going to be a good thing to do at drama centre. For God's sake the Victoria very wooded done a sketch about being an amateur dramatics director. You know it fits exactly exactly I sorta mean completely unequipped to be. There just was not you know. I'm probably like IMA best clothes as well to me so I just looked act ridiculous like my best clothes on behalf nicely and everything. Not the kind of alternative search of lunatic that. I think that they probably wanted at that time. I was just a lunatic so there was an did this Victoria. Are you would sketch which is very funny it. She's she's A. I'm not sure I'm drummed director. And she's direct in production of Hamlet. So it's just ridiculous but it's funny in a the company's called the Pie Chris players. It's you know it's daft but it was good fun and I was really comfortable doing it and enjoy doing it commended. The student at the backyard tight means the room starting to laugh at the beginning thinking. Oh God the something coming back from this room no same from anybody else and even he lost the will to live halfway through 'cause thing he just felt embarrassed because he was so it's I was thinking this filth income laughing Outta or I'm laughing with gold it was just one of those Anaconda he then had selena having been then questioned questions that I just. I didn't know the answer to. I didn't know what they were talking about half the time. Somebody made a question from the right side of the table. As a star it turns to that some of the tweets from the end at start asking me something else it was just my. I was the overwhelming not. Not Not having any clue what I was doing and I commend. Begetting nope going. I The took me out the room and I was. I must've I've been action. I was like is always that bad. Andy is like he ahah that that the other one you did. Well not my Shakespearean Experien- queen is my also. It's been smashed that one online every keep your audience doing. Yeah our yeah and he was like without that wistfully. It was just one of those where you go away from it going that. That was a horrible. That was a horrible experience. First audition it could have been. I won't get by did did the for them didn't get in any way so again then massive disappointment again out in the letting go talk to you again go okay. I don't know what to do now. I don't know I don't know. Because of course in naive immature eighteen year olds head. You go will forget into their. I've done this little stat now. During the performance then get into drama school dot will be the next big step because then once you come out of there I'll I'll have been in that environment for three as and people know how to do and how to get on with it and what you do next exton and also have this wealth of knowledge of scripts. You know I'll I'll fail to understand Shakespeare by the time of done threes. Is it drama school. So that sort of I think in my head so my going and that's really what I want to do to go. Work at the IRS. See because it seen it when it was all with that didn't get anywhere So had to get a job so got a job working can as a I would. I would like to say nanny but it wasn't an anti because that makes you sound quite glamorous. I was actually a mother's help right. Thus hi my job was described. This help I was living this hell on a worked for somebody. Who for the M Health Thursday? Okay so sometimes she was away of night. So a looked-after two little girls. I hated it. Shouldn't be standing next to might be listening so it's just because it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. It was absolutely fine. I didn't hate them or anything. I just. I was just not doing what I wanted to be doing was this with the intention to reapply to dramas goal. Oh Yeah Yeah. It was with the intention to go. I think also an A. needed to leave of home and that meant I was leaving home because that was another thing about get into nineteen. I would have been going to school. I was going to leave home and so I did leave home but only to only live a lift So of I two woodstock Way that way but I lived in with. I'm not far enough really more but I wasn't living in the house so I am yeah. went to the with the intention like you say of re applying for the following September. Eleven and then move boyfriend at the time. A very good friends of his father had just passed away and he said I want to go visit them and so I went with him and this friend who is now my best May Miss Belinda Peach. The fabulous blended Peach Grimaud. Great Name. Great name her. Mom Ran a small fee to school. Opin Shrines called Braeside School and I went up to to visit them with my boyfriend at the time for him to pays pays respects because they just lost the host. Dat Gone with them really well and obviously discussed that. We'd been I've been at college we've been at college. The study's closed some happy. And she said Oh. You mundos classes sometimes. You could come up to swim classes to just keep getting can handle and so I was also involved in another Group of students who. You hadn't gone off to drama school. You're going to university after college so we were all working on stuff together. You know psychodrama those kind of kind of stuff that you do ninety I take Did A lot und- of the meeting with Belinda. She said to me one one way she was like. We've got somebody into addition next week for girls your age really but it's to play to play like a sixteen year old but it's for for a film but we think you're the right age and stuff so come. We put your name down on our list of of girls that are going to be saying here association. You've got to do a COUPLA bishop. You've got to audition for them. So you've got to come with an audition piece. And they wanted to be quite gritty in quite you know well I think I think she just said quite gritty so don't tip in you know don't tip open give you too. Tanya from a midsummer night's dream or Victoria words uh-huh retired or. You're ninety eight year old Shakespearean quick. Don't bother with those. This time Chaban may trying bring something a little noggin to the audition should so when did this addition and the the lady who was there who are no was Beverley Keogh said can you combat next week and we'll see you again so I think I went back and saw again at the time. I didn't really know what it was full. When you for film film Book Book Book even that wasn't really registering with me? It was I. I was just doing what I wanted to do again. So that was great and so I think I saw beverly again and then she said right. Can you combat next week. And you're going to meet the director and producer and you know so it was it was. There's a big massive recall situation so beverly thing could been seem people appearing in this area and she was recalled in everybody so it was like it was like five girls with irately but she does so said. These girls that you're for this to play in is think they'd so upset you know. There's quite hard and tough and Blah Blah Blah. So if you can kind of come in dressed for the part aw that would be great. I don't think had seen any script account remember if unseen any scripted. Too So attuned this edition and looking like a prostitute from the episodes an episode of the bill. Right back. In the day I looked looked I mean prostitutes slash drag queen. I've had much make upon. Could Butko hair. So it was like full of Ed. I'm went into this like capital market basically and we went into groups of about ten fifteen gene sat in a row of `Chez and just read with The two actors who thing could or dipping cast by then and and it just got whittled down all day so the go out of the fifteen view that commend you ten can go home. You five instate it was. It was like that. That's all remember all day going in and out in and night until it got down to about four hours and I was still there was still want a by the way was light one of the full in again. Okay then and then Right canoe stay and can would come. We do a bit more work on some of these scenes and got along all day. It was a really long day in faith in the pressure as it saw of caradon progress will down or were you think so. I think I was thinking is just slightly Bewildered by the whole thing because because it never been in I'd never been in the process of didn't really understand what they were actually do in and also any moment they could have said right. You can go home so so you know we don't need to see you anymore So yeah that did did that day. And then they said they said we'd light I would like to do next is. Can you come to London next week. And we need to meet the the the light the executive producers. We need you to rebuild for them and do that for them. So I went off to London. Went met the producers and the juices and at the end of the May sit in Chattan and having to read bits with the mundane stuff. They said to me would really like to do this so I can remember going right. Thanks not no understanding of what they were no understanding of what they were saying to me at all get into Houston and walking in a bit of a days and been like you know thanks. Thanks so much that some of COE's no understanding of what was going to happen next into Houston News in the phonebox style. Long ago it was put in the tenpin insane to me. Mom just moments I. You're I here. Yes the moon live. Said they want me to do this. Now go and right now. I'm you just no idea. What would we do all going on? And then it just. I was a weird process than suddenly some D. going. So you are doing this. Your equity card. No okay. Well we'll have to look into that because you know the film company left to try and work that I 'cause that was back in the day which had tubby equity card to work unless it went to some kind of arbitrational all that. Oh the film you think at the time had to say these are the people we've seen but we don't want to use those because we want to Chevron so what can we do about that and I don singing clubs and stuff and said that there was all that going on them trying to get my equity card because of that not to do a certain amount of hours it which had done ten times but of course not been aware that you you could get your equity card that way. What was Iraq you? Yeah you ought to do so many hours to get paid in a done so many hours or gather rather. Yeah but you couldn't you couldn't you couldn't do our. Yeah Yeah Yeah and And so it seemed to be then really quickly have in them said we want to do it. I was in broad for dinner. Rehearsal room rehearsing for up to thirty million years ago now and then being in a film having no clue literally clueless as to what was going on what was happening running while I was doing I mean was there a sense of freedom and by not having any reference about what you were doing you just go in there at old. Aw think I don't think I have felt that but the must've been the most just been like I have to just do what I think to do. A not not over. Thank you not a not not be thinking. I wonder what I wonder how she would walk a no wonder how I wonder if she'd wear those shoes. And is this mullet mullet. Hack all of that kind of stuff. None of that. I just literally sat in the chairs from Tacoma hair. They put the clothes on the shoe's on we'll down the road. It was that kind of stuff and I suppose Allen Clarke if a contract that must if name clanging around on the floor the way he shot it as well was quite free. It wasn't a it wasn't a regimented shoot. It wasn't the cameras being set to pay. 'em GonNA shoot this. It was a lot of steady cam which of course I didn't. I thought everybody show everything with come. Retouched them running backwards down the road all of that kind of stuff but yeah it was shot. It in about five weeks does not quick. Yeah and I bet you never thought offer one instance when you go in. Don't you know if you felt comfortable by. Never Thought Whoa wait a minute phone eve. They saw so many people for this as part of course I didn't think that of course it didn't cause still expected some dion set to come up on San Diego you know Sort talknet of you've had you've given you've done your best boys. He really did a really good tried and even a really good child. Join this Alvarez. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah for first film and everything else job first job. Yeah mm-hmm I made some of the content of that film for Young Woman. It's quite forlorn. I said it was horrific. Yeah it was terrific. How did you feel about? Don't Cadad- feel anything about it. So just ask me questions about it not at all I just had no just had. Yeah it it's a bit blurry all of that. I mean thank God it was good. It was judged Kosta good which sounds a very weird sense to say. Thank God it was George Gaskin who is pretending to Shag me in that field. Because I don't know how they've Gone With anybody else book just for those people who have never seen ever seen it. Yeah we should sort of give a bit of context okay. It's it's basically a film about two two sixteen year old just to buy a thing about just by WHO Babysit for a character there Rita into the two girls and their babies for character called Bob and his wife Michelle and I don't know I mean there's no nice way of putting it is the this and they basically a shaggy and Bob both of them. Both of them are to who schoolgirls yeah yeah two schoolgirls. Yeah and that's what the film's Yeah. I mean it's not just about by you. Know the whole slice of society and having a look what's going on with a guy now now now now and the end it should it get made. No no no no no no no no no no no and should it be made then probably not but should should we been doing a lot of things Lokonga into coming and but that was what the film is a by Concord. So yeah I mean I don't want to now now but now it wouldn't get made I wouldn't get my name. I mean it wouldn't get made I I with with the the amount of thunder the injected into it. Then would they couldn't do you. No no I don't think we'd bill laughing. China people done into revenue gang. No no I mean in August yes time change even I remember looking back on it then and thank of shocked by it was really shocking and I don't think I was aware of how shocking it was at all the time I just. I think it was all because it was all just overwhelming. The the I was even I was even being paid paid to be in a film if it was all. Yeah it was. All of womack remember to. The there was was a film festival in Brighton and we went down there and I think that might have been wearing white hardest first release and the press we were. We were on a road type behind a desk All depressed filled the room. And of course I was completely oblivious to the fact that they were gonNA commenters about it. so naive ram is so naive but was it was ninety nineteen years of age and probably very mature and very naive to what what they were gonNA ask questions about and of course it started. I need to be sitting there thinking. Oh my God this is really can cause problems. Pink comes to for this. It was just it was all kind of buy. It was well it was the whole the headlines and stuff for things like thatches Britain Britain with its knickers dying and stuff like that and it was a case of does. Is this really going on. On countless days up north breath and of course the in direct said Of course is going on all over the world this thing is going to know of the will but actually we're not looking at that we're looking at we're looking at this. The conditions people living in the way. We'll just the way people are are having to live the lives and and if there are any money into get a bit of fun by doing. ABC Why not looking at that? Why we're not looking at people? have up in healthy fulfilling lives. Why not looking at the fact that these people on the breadline? Wiwa all of those things They've closed just wanted to concentrate on the fact that there was a a married man who is supposedly surtees having insects with two sixteen year old girls. Of course the did the film that was at the same time was a film called. Wish wish you were here. which had had emily? Sorry am count member name really story. Oh my goodness emily Loy Emily Lloyd Erica that was good volumes packs amyloid and in that film she was a young girl. Having having sex I think in the shed with a mold to match Alderman M but that but that it was set in the they may be making up my medicine the forty to fifty. I can't remember there was no kind of I can remember thinking at the time why this is way. 'CAUSE WIG in hammered here and nobody's nobody's talking about that film when exactly the same thing thing is is going on but nobody's really talking about it Because that films prettier but we just didn't we just started where it was set the time period that was set in that class Azer maybe or all of that. Maybe maybe that maybe that was going on. I didn't I I didn't know I commend this bright and film festival thinking going after among and Tello. What's going on this film because I do not hold your woman dot com going on in the now now now now now wasn't having those kinds of charts by the way I'm playing somebody who's Shangen the now? Did you charge great. You've got this film trump. Tell me well I don't I don't remember. Even I've been come station. Is it because I think it was because it was so weird for the whole family. You know and I still think me dad was probably still pushing secretarial courses onto me now who's going Well this is great book. Maybe ever look at that to do. Think uh-huh was he. I could have earned money over the years if actually done a retyping backstrom thinking enough during earning minimum because in the staffroom tomorrow the level the level the papers in the stuff premium and definitely wanted the titles definitely definitely one of the headlines was Thatcher's Britain with knickers down and another one of the Mac and remember really clearly was the film that turned the festival Blue Louis and thinking Oh my God what am I you know. I'm how am I going to explain this and what I am going to discuss new you slowly. It's GonNa be back your mouth and reading from the yeah and I think has a right. I may be running the school or maybe around the school because of course Thadani clock that morning. God Oh my God yet. This is going to be. This is on the papers. This is GonNa be there and then wrong the moment just of said you know. Don't panic nick you know these headlines much worse than than all the yeah. The much worse actually happens. And you'd I'm not nude ad Karman. Don't niffer said anything like that can't really remember the conversation and I think some some colleague of hers at work could just set. I'm just going to show you this before you go into staffroom which was probably a great thing in their China Vermont. incapacities took that Sasha Vaughn so yeah so I did that did you. Did you feel protected when you were filming up and said it was very you. Think back in. It's quite blurry time protected. In what way do you mean just I mean. Just look after giving giving giving on some of the things I mean was our was Michelle at the time she around the similarities tears. Same Age I think. Same Age But Michelle work in from being a thing was when she will team v day maybe younger yes she so so her just her knowledge of being in that working environment was was completely fleet different than mine shorts Michelle Holmes Thirty Eight. Yeah Yeah So John Craig. I can't remember I don't I don't remember feeling Taking advantage no not at all don't don't didn't feel like that. And like I said you know Gioja was a a a an experienced actor as well is a really lovely human being so you know and and and a lot of the and to be fair. Those the the kind of the big scene of on the Mos- actually actually ends up Is Farcical in a way. So there's nothing you know we will never ask to take. We were never told to take our clothes off arrest. You know there was none. None of that ever went on. I don't I don't remember if I mean I felt vulnerable the whole time. I was doing the job just because I had no clue I was in Seoul. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. So what was it that stage after that we think in a one of the film now do you feel that you'd learn a lot during that film No I don't think it did feel I could learn just getting through it. Yeah I was just as Clarkson. Yeah I was just there And after that because I didn't end up I didn't end up still with my equity card. Still didn't have an equity card after that. Yeah Yeah it all went to pot account again. Sorry I've got no rings. Two days ago and a constant remember stuff woo third world and a really good okay. That's good okay. Good so But it didn't have picard and so then it was trying to get me then and again trying to get my equity card and then again because of the connection of read Sumberg to Julia the wonderful Jillian Authors George Customs Mace as I was working at the half Moon Theatre in stepney green and I went back in worked. I when I just went I got jobs you know So when a demonstrated spira graphs one Christmas in Lewis's Manchester on sister. Anna were Tim. Some use Ajilon just to go and get a job because there was no income And so it was weird. I was going to like this film. Being screened places you know going off at dispose Premier Ni- not the felt like that and it was just a screening but no couldn't talk about an well dad. Nothing to talk about you know it was I was with can am Was your is still going to try and yet there was still that but I'd missed that then admits that because of the film my then missed it yet about September yes it would have been another twelve months whilst bouts lawsuit two years on. Yeah yeah which probably now would have been a brilliant time time for me to go 'cause because a little bit more survey you know to work out what was going on but Anyway couldn't seem to get a jaw. Couldn't seem to get picked up. Didn't understand the need age. I mean all of this stuff that you can go. You Know Ni- screen that you just signed before about mentoring somebody you can say to them right. You still need to go along this path. You need to find this this triangle and speak to them do this do that. There was nobody that I had to buy anything like that. I just didn't understand. It still didn't understand the business. I was in anyway judges lovely wife Gills Ron one day and said look we are. She was working at the half Moon Theatre as maybe an assistant director at the time. Macabre NBA thinks she must have been and said we are additioning full. The chorus in a production of Shell called poppy. which is a kind of musical about the opium wars so? It's not jolly but it. It was good fun. Were addition for the chorus. I'M GONNA put your name down. Can you sing so coast. Said yes comey's can hold a to go so M S so I'M GONNA put your name down for this edition until come in and audition next week and bring a song and Blah Blah Blah Blah. Okay so went off this addition of course with you know half of London again. Who could all done since you know? Everybody was auditioning with nothing to do. A might've even to Victoria Wood again account. Remember for this dish bread pasta. Yeah and also so just something that was comfortable with unused phone. Did this edition. Full Chris. Bond to the artistic director. The Hoffman and the musical direction people and kind of just about got through a song not being able to breathe because didn't know high too breath and sing at the same time just held breath start the song no fit and then moving Few moves in at the end just to show them. That could move by even though it was actually struggling to breathe that stays but anyway went off after that undocumented gills ringing me on Monday morning edition the week before on the Monday or bring it on the Monday morning and just saints me. Hi Hi Darling. So she said look. I'm really really sorry but am hang on a minute. I've got to go to put the phone down to Hudson's God why that was quite brief obviously not got the job but didn't think was going to do because I was in a room full of you know peop- people to me. Were all amazing. You know they were all doing well mops and stretches and you know an in Sharon me about half an hour late and she said right Chris as as I was on the phone to Chris to Steroids Award ten. Instead of. You're wrong anybody yet. And she said no not bring. Anybody said because I won't shown to do it because I enjoyed enjoyed my own Basically a think whatever. I think I might have done Victoria again. But that had got got laughing had been fun and stuff but he said I got night have a fight with the musical director. Who apparently said was? She doesn't know she can sing. She can sing book. That's not. That's it's not a voice I can't. I can't trainer to sing to yourself. I need I need somebody to just be on it so that I can teach the harmonies too. It's not it's not going to be a struggle to but he said I'm going to that fight within this morning in and you know if he wants to body then I'll say right okay you can have them. I want to vote so I ended up in the chorus of this musical cold at the half moon data in London and I got my equity Carta a final plan. The buckles called Randy Pantomime Herbs punts my most call Randy. And that's what I got to do. A lot of the time tug on for me to come to shaggy in the back of a car to be an runty horse uh-huh but I got equity card given that so then more and then again just and not an I think wrong path. Now some. I'm still on a path but it's going all over the place and think somebody at a smooth now. No who is not. I think the somebody at the theater. Then were saying you know what you need to try and get yourself an agent but I was basically in the back of a horse costume half of this play and then when you did see my face to think it was in maybe two numbers on stage but they they were signed me. Yeah but you've done a film you've been in this film so you can go and see agents and they'll at least know who you are because the lifts in this film Ooh so they can't come and see you in this necessarily because there's really nothing I say unless they've got something there to show. Yeah unless they're you know punching host agent and that sold the day that most bear. I'm sure there are few and then so he I think some it was again I was being helped. It's then because I I was clueless was being helped people with say maybe go and do this may be right to this person. Oh do you know what this this person's of May I'm I'm friends with the cast in person. Let me talk to them and see where they should send you or you where you should go who you should write to. And and and that's what I did. I think it was I. Condemn was in that production with me in just a great time to a great life together both from appear And I think it might have been his agents Ho spindle something that just said you know you should maybe go and see these people. They'll they'll definitely just get you in even raise. He's just recoup potato and chat with them and so I went to see a few of them and I went to see my first agent who was called Shane Collins. I went to meet him and he said during during the meat I was into said. Look I will take you on because because you've done nice film if neither your Equity Guard I take because I can put you up still can get you seeing first overnight so that so of where it started really and was dramas Golden Shannon. was that in the last now. Did you think yeah even though I'm still chippy about it. Oh yeah yeah explain to me. Why because you because I'm not China? MSCI pivoted I get the PISS take note make people go yes. It's really really really struggled on increase. Prison never really taken off because you didn't go to drama school. I'd be that with me. I think it's just that feeling landed. Never feeling like I was proper and if I if I'd done three years at jump school and my improper because at least I've read a few more plays could not in the privacy of my own home. Let's be on Xtra. It didn't do that. You would have felt she would accept it. Yeah Yeah Yeah you must be accepted now though. Yeah I was reluctant on it. A Deuba ah I even lasted play about five years ago. Remember one day having a cup of tea and you know I was looking with actors. Who did all into ceased of that we can you know and just stunned? They're thinking I can't contribute anything to this conversation or the did Anybody Watch goggle box last night because we need that question. We do need that question and and and also that's again again me going on going on you just injured mental now by people who've been to the theater three times this week because you think that's stupid you know when of course not stupid as they look doing and of course he's not stupid thing to do but but again thank you. All you know is just because I didn't go to drama school aloft. I think there's a lot of that. Do you worry that didn't have the drama school now. Just in general you were yeah. Yeah Yeah I'm trying. I try not to be an criticize people for being like that. My Best Mate Assay to cry cry. She be worried if you weren't worried you know he'd be worried about that. You're worried about how you got into worry about him. So try not to do that. uh-huh yeah it. Is that thing into just a good enough. You know neither goes away. I think some days it goes away completely and then the days it comes like a bastard goes. I'm just going to actually today. I know you're not going to be good enough today. I'm just going to go a much better though if a a day at work that adopting has gone very well you know years ago. Maybe not that long ago but I'd have been really upset and bothered by tiny. Give him time until you know you knew what you wanted to do with that Sane and oh so why didn't you do. Oh why didn't you cry to you. You should have been crying all the way through all those things that you can come away within go. I didn't I didn't do that as well as I should should've done as well as I could have done a much better now going okay. That didn't go as well as I wanted it to books. is gone yet. No Sir that was down to the fact that we had five minutes to do it or there was that you know and so all of those external journal things that you that you're not in control of just being able to go. I did it I did it to the best of my ability in those surrounding not in that situation. Everybody else was working to the best. You know it was all that was that was maybe just the way. It was meant to be so much better at that years ago I would have been beside myself thinking what a waste of time here and then if you like that sometimes because I've been in that situation carries over and bleeds into the next clues for coach. It doesn't get done you carry that with you. Go in I think they thought I was shittiest today. You know and if if somebody doesn't you know just say morning tea he thinks are they've not even spoken to make new. I was shit yesterday because I was shit. That lovely props blow the. I always say. Good morning to can't even look me in the eye this morning because he okay went home last night and when she was all right Bush was shit yesterday what was before so yes. Bio Arles. Yeah as ever been a point wave so I'm just not going to do this anymore. I can't do anything else. That's still thing if I could think about doing something else Well always when it's good and you're having a great time of cushy. Don't think like that to you. You think you know this is great fun. You stood work in whether whether it's in the theater onset laughing ahead of having a great time with a load lovely people all want to be there in wanting to be to be made the best thing ever you know. Of course she don't feel like that but And I do live dude. Love my job. I Love Day when if I'm having fun doing it then that's great now. We flirt with that. We flirt with that just to sum to flow onto deuce unto. Radi main it though you know. It's yeah two ends of spectrum. Yeah I don't I. I don't think it's always the healthiest profession For people to be in. I just think you know mentally you've got to be got to be. Maybe should be really strong strong strong mentally to just go. 'cause we get knocked. I thank Allah the time not not in not in any big way but just nobody can same being bigger the time and trump as resilient as possible. Yeah absolutely intakes its toll. Yeah Yeah said this is it it can. It can be wearing expose the thing. Isn't it where you just go. And it's relentless and people still turn again trying to get jobs and it's not it's not plane sale in it's just and you can go onto you said before you can go onto a job. That he thinks may be going to be amazing and day to you thinking. Why don't I'm getting a really funny vibe? A few. You'll not some kind of play with or Damian served the role of that and then and then you've got to be strong to just go right. We'll that's not a bite me. That's about them all but how many people can do that. Just very rarely is very rarely is about you you you would think it is because he would worry that you've upset some absolutely yeah upset them. Oh and also we don't know what's going on other people's lives and everybody else by dies of course of the Dome bring into work. They do bring into work manifest itself in the so Yeah yeah but it's different. It's difficult to. It's difficult to see that he can't see that in yourself sometimes can use. It's impossible to the in some deals unless there actually stood in frontier weeping. Tatum Avenue Really Shit time. Can you help me which we don't do very often duty then no we. Don't yeah I suppose era. Just flirt with the idea of retired in taking up gardening no interest Aston gardening whatsoever to do none whatsoever. Now I've got the same. Please write that down. Can you start writing. Knocked down if I'm telling stories and stuff like that you know. Oh all Chattanooga Just chatting about life and they go. Oh It'd be by writing something you'll do you so Ryan uh-huh maybe for my own amusement. Yeah but I'm kind of an old people. Can you know go written script plenty. Why why did you find the time to do so? Do you find a things in harder or easier as as you as you get older in life about two separate questions okay and because it's not straightforward and it can be precarious you know and sometimes things bet in and sometimes things things settled down career Wadham Tolkien. I think I think I think realize it. It's it is easier but that's not a very lookie position to sometimes be asked to do jobs so have not got to go through that process of the audition process that the flip side to that. Is You tipping up onto a job. Rob Thinking am I actually write for this and veered off. Do these. Do these people actually want me to do or is somebody in an office awesome. My side right will get. Can you get to play that part please. You know. That's that's that's a worry that you just have to get rid of intake lizzy massively ungrateful. No by her going. I've just got this job. Don't want me to do it because if you go through. This process obviously not a little bit. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah yeah she didn't have that stood. That's that's that's great. That's that's a great place to be going. You know I'm still. I do still audition for stuff and don't get got it and does the disappointment that I am much better at just to go right. Will that wasn't for me. That wasn't to me. That wasn't for me. I wasn't right for that. You know okay so important that you got to a stage where he can do that or at least excuse me you'll better he gannett than what you were. But have I've got that lovely Safety Net of going but I was just asked to do a job there. You know out so you know my disappointment is is is not is minimal because the might be something that just been asked to do. So that's that's failed in a privileged position in respect though because you know a lot of moments nights in this game don't have that until no nuts and so you know it's lookers well isn't it. There's a lot of goes into you. Closer has yeah you do have to be offseason. Yeah well yeah yeah do you. Sometimes I don't know maybe I don't think there's a lot of people are getting away with all the time as I have done on. I was definitely you know the whole of them. A Lotta jobs. He just winging it. Thank God I don't really know what's going on. I suppose Israel A A no more by working environment and work in situation. You sort of know what's expected of you all those things things whereas when I was a youth didn't now we weren't supposed to know them. I doubt St Louis to post to no no. Oh yes so much more aware of all sides of it but Yeah that's that's that's that's an ease us an easier way of being intimate take on it and unjust no-win the all right. The the the is a good feeling there is. That's a great feeling type. Just go and obey right. Though I was I've been through this fifty times during during this create. You didn't get that because they being C.. You didn't get that But I'll still be alright. How even if it doesn't failure at the time obviously it will be? Aw Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah class you one last question happy. Am I happy. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Very happy Thanksgiving not really happy people. I am sounded really depressed. Timing is wrong question the I hi and within US people. Don't people ski enough. Yeah now very happy yeah good born thanks very much for asking me. Yes thank you note. She says with a pain the J.. I've just waffled avenue looking good And another episode is done. How brilliant is civil vendor and? I'm really really thrilled. The time to come and we had such a as long as I really enjoyed it. thanks for out in and subscribing really but didn't go on a sort of you've wine gone In the intro too much I was just thinking about Joy and positivity at Christmas and everybody can be so away then and you walk in passing these say the office. Christmas party is maybe not in the best place or you know somebody. That isn't so I think it's already time. Just think on the flip side. I'm not like being down or anything but it's kind of Nice to stop and think about thing I abso- anyway if Dade aide waffle on then apologies but if you got where it was coming from then do let me now and yeah. I'll around over the festive period on social media. So if anybody wants to chat oh he's been down panicky only then yeah just gone to to a chat or I think that's really important. Sarah Milliken does incredible thing. I'm not happy start to the nation. Bought I think is something I hardly support and Sarah's amazing so that is hit our last episode before Christmas buffet. Not We are not gonNa be away into long. No because we're GONNA drop another episode episode one hundred nine before the new year. I'm just working out. Which one is GONNA be because we've got some incredible episodes or at a record in the bank and he can already love him? Promise you so until then do what you need to do over this festive period and enjoy yet. Look after yourself stay safe be kind. And until then take I've been Craig Parkinson as been producer graph and this has been the last show podcast before Christmas to shop. PODCAST is presented by me Craig Parkinson recorded and produced by Thomas Griffin for splicing blocks music music cozy often than that goes

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