20 Episode results for "Vern Ganja"

WKPWP - Keller interviews Mick Karch & Kenny "Sodbuster" Jay: (4-30-15) Remembering Verne Gagne - the highs and lows of his career

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

WKPWP - Keller interviews Mick Karch & Kenny "Sodbuster" Jay: (4-30-15) Remembering Verne Gagne - the highs and lows of his career

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Classic where Wade Keller interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers one of the most successful and influential promoters of the one thousand nine hundred seventy s and early nineteen eighties. Vern Ganja the subject of today's interview Classic Longtime Awa Fan Awa Fan club president of Awa. Champion Nick Buckling Goal Awa announcer including on the ESPN tapings at the showboat in Las Vegas and also host of the SNL Saturday at wrestling. Block and longtime indy wrestling. Pay Play by play man. Karsh joins me. Who had up close interaction with fern? Ganja and watched his product from start to finish from the sixties to the very end. And we're joined by AWA jobber Kenny. Sod Buster Jay who was a favourite in the AWA territory in affable likable lovable. Loser on Awa. Tv for many many years who actually started off working for Ganja at his palatial home on Lake Minnetonka and then did did jobs on television so we share some stories about him to offer. Ganja died five years ago this week at age eighty nine. The discussion on Verne spent his years. As a top main inventor as AWA world champion to his rise and fall as a promoter behind the scenes his reaction to Vince McMahon's national expansion that decimated his roster and his profitability his role in the evolution of the Hulk Hogan baby face character. Don't let anyone tell you any different. Hulkamania was born in the Awa despite and then because of ver- Ganja and we'll get into that Hogan entered Awa territories a. He'll was cheered by the fans and burn said. Hey you guys like we're gonNA promote as a baby face and even though we didn't have that amateur background vern Ganja loved Hoke was a huge breakout star in Awa and formulated the entire Hulkamania routine and gimmick before. Vince McMahon hired Hogan for more money and they would go onto wrestlemainia fame. So a really fascinating discussion. If you're still interesting history are going to love this if you just want to hear some great stories about this crazy wrestling business including the one of the longest running most successful wrestling promoters from one of the big three brands. They weren't called brands then. They were called promotions during the the sixties seventies early eighties. There was the Awa the NWEA with all their territories and the WWF which prior to that was the W. W. W. F. You'RE GONNA learn a lot about about pursing history and learn fun story about someone who was not always well loved From the position of the boss the promoter so settle in. It's a really fun discussion. Mccarthy is one of my favorite guests over the years to have on And I've known make forever used actually right for progressing towards submission com. You can find it and some of our earliest back issues so Anyway with that introduction. Let's now get to it. This originally aired on April thirtieth two thousand fifteen welcome to the P W torch live cast. I am Wade Keller editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter since one thousand nine hundred eighty seven and also P W torch dot com since nineteen ninety nine. Bw Torch APP available on iphone and Android and also host of this the POW torch live cast. We are here five days a week Monday through Friday and Sundays after Major. Wwe Pay per for the only weekly Monday through Friday talkshow covering professional wrestling exclusively for the past five plus years and we thank you for joining us again today yesterday. Pat McNeill Was joined by Chris. Crews FROM WC WW announcing fame and also friend of the torch. Who's been on the show multiple times in the past and on Tuesday? I was joined by Jason Powell of pro wrestling dot net. And he He and I discussed Monday night raw. And also what? We'll be talking about today on interview Thursday here on W. Towards life test the death of Verne Ganja at age eighty nine and we are I'm excited to be able to talk about what Verne Ganja meant to me. As a wrestling fan again as I did on Tuesday and what he meant to professional wrestling with two people who had a chance to follow his career closely in different roles and the first person could bring on is Mick car she worked for Verne. Ganja as part of the Awa in Las Vegas on the ESPN tapings. Mika former pro wrestling torch columnist a frequent guest here at torch live cast on Nick. Welcome back to the life cast. Thank you way too good to be here. I. It's great to have you on. Thank you for taking time to be on today's show. I'm really glad that we could put together. Show a talking about Vern Ganja and I know you have a lot to say about them. I want to introduce our second guest in. That is Sod Buster Kenny Jay. Who WORKED FOR GANJA FOR SO many years? Kenya's this you are you there. Yeah I'm Wayne Kenny. Thinks he's doing. I'm doing great. Thank you for taking time away from busting sod to join us here on the show to appreciate it absolutely. Well I talked about what Vernon to me on Tuesday so I'm not going to repeat it today. The first wrestling show I ever went to was Verne's retirement so I came in as a fan at the end of Verne. Ghana's reign as a full time wrestler. I watched them on. Tv for years. But the first show. I got Lau was may of Nineteen eighty-one retirement match seventy thousand plus sold out crowd against Nick Balk Winkle and of course you know he made a few coming out of retirement matches but Kenny you obviously knew vern as a wrestler as an employee and as a friend. I'd love for you I to talk a little bit about your background with Ganja and how you I met him and how. You ended up on television as a wrestler. Well you know I I used the wrestling Chicago Milwaukee then with the army and then they came out of the army and and as sixty two then came back down to Minneapolis. And then I got the duress. Lula Douala car promoter and then that's how you got started and then pretty soon verne was there. You know you know we're in a great Great Wrestler and he loved wrestling. And you know he was a great great promoter so I I can't take anything away from the guy and I I really really. I'm going to miss. When is the last time that you had a chance to talk to earn? Well we we did a deal here at the place here in the on Chicago Avenue. Forty six to the Beatles and when they redid the wrassling movie jazz and Warren was there. This is probably Five years ago or so you know what I was in real good shape and I got to talk to him. I other shake his hand and do more wonderful wonderful thing I ever did. And also you know I'll never forget that moment in my life audible is offering listeners of this podcast. A free edition of Jim. Ross is under the black hat or for that matter any book title of Your Choosing in their vast collection of thousands and thousands of books. If you go to audible dot com slash wade or text weighed five. Hundred Dash five hundred. That's right Jim Ryan under the black cat came out just a couple of weeks ago available to you right now for free. In his new book he goes into detail. I haven't heard before there's one point pretty early in the book where he says I'd call it the dam. Flavors steamboat trilogy. And now I was trying to get punch holes to line up in the stupid paper on my stupid desk. I wanted to be on the frontlines not behind a desk. Go check out the new Jim. Ross memoir of his time in. Wwe with some great stories from years and years and more recently. That's under the black cat at audible DOT COM SLASH. P W torch now. It's not just pro wrestling books and it's not just books. Audible is much more than audiobooks. They have podcast guided wellness programs theatrical performance alias. Comedy and exclusive audible originals. You won't find anywhere else. There are thousands of titles. In fact. 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This might be the time to check that out in audible his way to do that. So go to audible dot com slash wade or text. Way To five hundred dash five hundred Kenny. We had a great Ganja on this show on that day and I actually think it was a little over three years ago maybe three and a half years ago because I had to ask my mom. My mom went to it and Mic. I really yes she went to it and I want to bring into the conversation on this because I don't know how many people in I don't know how many public appearances make for an made after that date if any I. I don't think he necessarily made any. And my mom had bought a picture of earn an autograph. She thought you know do. And my mom may have the honour mic and J of being the last woman that Verne Ganja hit on at a at a celebrity appearance. He's pretty and his handling of rushed her so earlier today about that and it was a fond memory here. Mitt Karsh You you grew up watching and by the way Mick and Kenny. Feel free to make this a conversation not an interview. Feel free to interrupt me or you know we'll just kind of make this free flooring see where it takes us by the way. Do Invite callers to call if you want to share some Burn Ghani Memories or question. Our phone number is six four six seven two one nine to wait that six four six seven two one nine eight two eight mic. I want to set the stage a little bit. Also with you starting off as a fan of the AWA in watching for Ganja I of said but it's only secondhand because I wasn't born when Verne became a headliner in a crossover a mainstream star here in the upper midwest sort of sleet mixed talk about exactly what Verne meant to this community in based in Minneapolis. Saint Paul and broaden. It also talk about how he compares to wrestler since then in terms of that mainstream appeal and how he was appreciated by the community or seen by the community. You know it's really interesting way to if you don't know the background burn. Ganja and know him just as a wrestler you have no idea the impact that this guy had because remember. We didn't have major league sports in the twin cities till nineteen sixty one. The twins and the Vikings and because of that professional wrestling you know once twice a week was really the big deal around here. Besides remain a minor league baseball teams and Ganja was the guy a You know even I would say up up through the late sixties early seventies burns not only a television personality but he really transcended that especially in the state of Minnesota. I mean this guy. Hobnobbed with governors and senators vice presidents and he was as big a celebrity. I think as anybody and then you know when you Add to that his community involvement and his charitable work at Golf Functions Tennis Celebrity events and so on and so forth and of course his dedication to the University of Minnesota I. It's a shame that the modern day wrestling fan probably just doesn't have a clue how big vern was in the state and especially in the twin cities just phenomenal. I mean his celebrity just transcended everything ten. Same well-spoken There Kenny. Talk about that too What was it like when you were around? Vern Ganja it from a- from a standpoint of charisma that he had and the kind of country club atmosphere that he was was recognized I mean. He was among the elite celebrities in this community. He played football with bud. Grant he Governor Bosch wits attended Awa shows in the front row. Go on and on Kenny. Talk about that talk about what fern the five vern gave off when he was in the public. Well I'll tell you one thing. He was a great guy he was and he loved wrestling and he lives for wrestling because he did after he got out of college and Winter Olympics. And everything he did. He did everything and and He created his verve wrestlers. Well you know when he got into the promoting and you treated and released so well I'll never forget it. You know he he got me into six man tag team with them and crusher and me against Larry inning and hardy raising the monarch off. You know you got me in Japan and he got me with Mohammed Ali. You know I could never. I'll never forget the guy you know. Because he he really helped me you know as he was a great guy and I'll I'll never forget him. And and and Kenny talk about the dynamic between vern and his business partner in promoting partner. Wally Carbo those two from everything that I've read and and just being around them a little bit in my years relative to you and the stories I've heard the dynamic between them. There has to be some fun stories there. Well they got along real good. You know I mean where do when they both show I guess they they do. Did it together and then you know I mean it. It took a lot of courage does a lot of charisma. You know to make your match. You know I mean it's just like Football you know you can just put a couple teams together. You gotta you gotTa have in the sequence. You know it's it's It's all sports is all the same you know you gotta you gotTa work together and you gotta you gotta sit up demand you know and then you gotta sit up football teams so I did a great job and yeah and you could tell back in the sixty seventies eighties. The road you know that. What was the last thing you said? Kenny our phone connection went out just for two seconds. Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling. Podcasts will come join me out for L. Over in the progress Paradise Aquino Torch. Vip as we look on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and shows from around the world be the US Japan Europe or Mexico. There's always a place of restaurants passed in the Paradise to and we've done fun. Historical shows such as the we love ligers series celebrating glorious career of Thunder. Like on our. I was there when shows where guests will join me to talk about. A classic bent that they were in attendance for we love variety and you can expect lots of at the. Press Paradise detailed. Pw TORCH VIP subscription information on a list of all the VIP benefits is available at Pierre Torture Vip Info Dot Com and yes all VIP Alcazar compatible with popular podcast APPs on iphone and android devices. Or you can stream them directly from our AD free. Vip Mobile Site C in the paradise. Okay let let let me let me go in and shift to make to make from your watching on television and also experiencing what what he meant and how he came across in the community are there other. Wha How does that compare to the rock? Coal Cogan Steve Austin Heck Bruno Sammartino. Like talk about the difference at wrestling's perceiving because Mick you are so you are so valuable to a show like this because we obviously cover current day wrestling week in week out and have for years and decades but make you followed wrestling so long that you're able to provide that. Forgive me for you know how long you've been a fan. But you have been urged you if you have seen as a fan and as a participant as an observer so many heirs of wrestling into so many changes your so valuable in that way is vern different in terms of how he's perceived compared to other top wrestlers since hit his. You don't really interesting because you remember you know again going back to the fifties and the sixties and you're going back to the cave savior and everything else so has changed. I mean the way wrestlers are looked at and promoters are looked at back in the day when you have the Mystique I mean I mean Verne Verne was the real deal and and the he was Like Mark Rosen on. Wctc here locally. Called him the Saturday night superman so the perception of Verne here in the state of Minnesota I mean he was he was a god. I mean he really was. He's right up there with Fran Tarkenton and Harmon killebrew and all these guys and and it kind of evolved a little bit you know. Needless to say as wrestling changed in the eighties all of a sudden the perception of a wrestling promoter and and and The Vince McMahon's of the world. And the dusty Rhodes. Everybody is talking about the behind seen stuff. And I don't know that you know it may be the luster wore off a little bit You know and as more and more stories kind of came to light about your Verne's business dealings with the guys and so on and so forth. It changed a little bit The perception of Verne Ganja as kind of a hard ass in and he was he was he was a perfectionist. And he did it his way. So you know in terms of how he was perceived Yeah that changed a little bit but again I keep going back to the same thing you really had to experience. You had to live through it to know back in the day. This guy was like Sir Lancelot around here. I mean he was he could walk on water. And that's the real deal so I think the perception in the state of Minnesota was probably different than it was on a national scale way Because on the National Level. I think people you know looked at vern again as Vince McMahon. The Bob Daigle the the Jim Crockett. Whatever you know whatever the case may be here in the state of Minnesota at least early Rom didn't perceive them that way so I think. The era of eras in professional wrestling changed the perception of Verne. Ganja Kenny you for thirty years and and like you said I mean he gave so many. You were very loyal to him. He was very loyal to you the over the years. How did he did for and Change? As he gained more power gained more riches he did. He was very wealthy. Did very well for himself as a promotor. How did you say teach? His key changed and also as he became older than a lot of talent working for him. Although there's a few jokes in there about Awa at the end you know everyone kind of stuck together till the end but as as he aged and younger wrestlers started coming up. I in fact as an aside. I mean my my experiences with fern just in the late eighties. Being around him were talking about the rockers. Shawn Michaels Mardi Janetti. All those punk kids they don't they don't appreciate the opportunity that kind of thing to T- Kitty. Talk to me about the how you sovereign change as he as. He moved from his twenties thirties to his forty fifth. I don't think he he has really changed. Because you the great wrestler all the time. I wrestle many times and we had a great time TV wrestling matches. I mean but I'm talking. You know you're talking about the New York Buddy Rogers and they're all great professional wrestler ice and it all all goes down to from Verne to all the way to New York. You know and You know Buddy Rogers and then there was a Bogor's eleven I mean dis guy and Paddler God lieutenant that they were all great professional wrestlers and as all do the same thing it was wrestling and was professional wrestling and and it was the same. You know until eviscerate man to go over. You know what it was. I just sixty seven days. I'll never never forget them and we're in gone. It was there all the time and I'll never forget them every Sunday night catch wrestling night in America on PW Torch Daily Dot Com hosted by me PW torch columnist. Greg Parks each week. I'LL WELCOME A CO host. The torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling taking your calls and emails. You can listen. Live most weeks beginning at eight. Pm Eastern on Sunday nights with the WWE or impacts pay per view. Go on the air at the conclusion of that pay per view you can listen. Live but of course. The full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs visit. Pw Torch Daily Task Dot Com and click the livestream linked to find the next scheduled live. Show Lincoln Search. Pw Torch an apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe wrestling night in America every Sunday. Twa Torch Daily Dot Com can bike mic absolutely. Yeah I was just going to jump in here and and for my weight and and what's really interesting about this all the and you and I have talked about this before the perception that you know make arches former your work for the Awa will really my TV experience for the Awa was about six months. That was it in the end. The same thing you know and I've been on a fan of it for you know fifty plus years and I did publicity for Vernon Wally and so on and so forth. I think what you're asking is. Maybe I don't know from an emotional standpoint. Maybe from a business standpoint how to burn change As time was going on and as things were changing. If if that's you know that's the perception that I'm getting the way that I saw it and this is probably from. Oh man maybe the early seventies on Things really started to change even back. Then because in the early seventies Wtc MTV Of course hosted the Awa all star wrestling network the syndicated TV they were owned by Chris. Craft and in the early Seventies. I WANNA say seventy three maybe seventy four. The station was changed. Changed ownership in Metromedia TV. Bought them out and they weren't really big. Fans of professional wrestling was kind of a necessary evil to them and when they I made that change. I don't know if they didn't like Vernon if they were butting heads or what the situation may have been but because of that they kind of move the AWA television show all over the board at least in the Minneapolis market. I've talking in terms of when it aired. So bad pissed vernal off a little bit at the same time. He released the original movie. The wrestler which had an initial rate response and then totally petered out. So there was some stress there You know again going back to the early seventies and at the same time they have stressed started to trickle down to wally carvel. So then Vernon Wally. Kinda have this adversarial relationship a little bit and and burn became you know on. Television is the charisma. You can't argue with it. I mean he was just a phenomenal guy. And if you call vernon good mood nobody better. I mean he was just a gem of a guy but the stress was starting to get through them and I think what happened from the seventies right on through the end systematically things started to Kinda chip away at burns arm rule little bit and I don't know of hostile is the right word but he. He became more protective. I think he became more defensive of his product and I think he came Just a well. He was always a fast master like I said he was always a perfectionist with the boys but I think he just started to have a little bit of an edge to them and sometimes you could feel it. You didn't see it on television but if you were in the background you saw your felted. The boys talked about it and You know I it was I guess. Kind of a slow erosion of the empire if that makes any sense. I'm fascinated by five earned because I got to see the tail end of vern as a public Washington tail end. It was a long stretch of time but relative to what you experienced mic and Kenny. As long as you knew him I. The Post retirement years mostly as an adult. I was just a kid when he was a wrestler and the public figure when he do the W radio appearances just an institution. Am station still around. He was he was amazing. I mean I still to this day. I'm not sure that there's more charismatic sports figure more UNASSUMING DISARMING CHARISMATIC. Nice Guy Public figure Denver. Ganja but boy did I see the other side of it. I mean I. I mean not a lot but enough that I heard stories of it and I guess my question I you make and I'm kind of curious with Kenny too. But do you make. Do you think that Vernon was phony? When he was being nice in public or was it more complicated than that and he's he deserves a more a nuanced explanation. Which is he enjoyed being a public figure in a celebrity but behind the scenes. He just we all have our moves. We all have our sides to our to our personalities when the when the cameras were off he kind of let loose Eric. Bischoff one time told me you know. Terry Taylor was his whipping boy because he had so much stress and he knew he could get away with it and he knew Terry could take it and so during the nitro years. W W Eric would just take it out on on Terry Taylor but publicly air couldn't do that in front of everybody or in public is much better public perception than Eric did. But long question short mic. Do you think he was phony? When he's being nice or did he just have a range of of moods and personalities during that from say the early seventies through the early nineties when he kind of faded from the limelight. I don't think he was only when he was being nice. Wait I think at and You know people have talked about this in the business. If you've got away from the stress of the wrestling business. He was phenomenal. And you know you talk about the you know. Probably the most charismatic guy ever. I couldn't agree more. He had that Verne gone. You smile and I mean this guy could disarm anybody and he walked into a room and the way. He carried himself again. Just a genuinely nice guy and I think I don't think this is really strange in in the business world wait. I think there's a lot of people like that especially high level executives. You know they get on public. You get them out of the ivory tower and they're great when you get them back you know in that In that realm where they've got the You know the dollars and cents and the calculators and everything else and in front of them it becomes a different story and again you ha- you add to the stress of what was going on around vern out the time He had never experienced anything like he did one that WWF started to you know infiltrate. I mean this is this was his turf the Awa was Yep. That's all he knew. That's all we knew and all of a sudden you know it's it's starting to dismantle so you had all this stress and it's what do I do now and everything became really really difficult. So you know to your original point. Was He for me when he was smiling and shaking hands and public absolutely. I think that was the real version. Ganja I just feel like you know when when the the wheels started to fall off it. Got To be an awful lot and You know he reacted that way. And you may have a point. You know what I mean and again. I don't think this is anything strange. I think you know if if you're a business owner there's always one or two people in the office the grunts or whoever it is however you perceive them. They're going to take the heat for the things that are going on around you and and what An interesting point you know. I've talked about the incident between Vernon I in Las Vegas. You don't WanNa screamed and yelled at me over. Something that you know was really minimal. And when I talked to Nick Balk Winco body and nick was on his way to New York so he really didn't care when I asked him about it. He said you know you gotta understand. Bird's not yelling at you. You know he said Jack Lanson. I are probably the only two guys burn as in yelled ad in the last ten years. It's because of everything that was going on around him. So I think on the overall was vern Ganja Nice guy absolutely I think he was a great guy I think his public persona and his charity work and everything else was the real version. Ganja behind the scenes the scripts would get. That's that's my perception of it from a distance again. I only work with them. You know hand in hand for a short time. Some of pro wrestling's best. Podcasts are V. I. P. Exclusive and you can go. Vip and find out why we have been supported by paid subscribers for over thirty years with our exclusive top-shelf content including pro wrestling torch senior columnist. Bruce Mitchell with the Bruce Mitchell audio show. I usually host that program though he has a variety of guest hosts with different themes and unmatched historical insight but primarily providing insight and hard hitting analysis and opinion on what today's news means. 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Join THE RANKS. So the most well informed and most entertained pro wrestling fans with the best podcast lineup anywhere. Go VIP and get these shows with the removed. Also a huge bonus. Pw TORCH VIP INFO DOT COM. Kenny again to you. A burn start in the wrestler movie Some point to that as a timeframe around which he went from being more like two more scrutinized by wrestlers and his colleagues fellow promoters even and by the eighties. I mean I heard really negative things about fern within the industry. You sounds like you got to see more More disarming version of somebody who when he was around you was relaxed and and just kind of appreciated what you were able to do for him in the ring. One of the things you were known for and I know Harley race complimented for this Kenny. Is You made your opponents. Look like a million bucks in that ring and it sounds like just always appreciated that about you. Well Yeah and You know like I said. I wrestled over and many times that we had a great measures. You know I mean he. Greg my ribs once but it was Having resigned but You know but I really You know I still are three. Shared the guy and the like you see. He was a promoter and He's GonNa book you know and If he's if you don't like you he's not GonNa kill you know so it's it's it's just a scratch. My bagger got your back or something but I I love the guy you know. I'll never you know his leg. I liked the crusher bag doll. You know I- I wrestle Amal and I I loved it while you know I mean. I don't care they they'd be home in my bed neighbor day. So and Mitch Cards helped me so you know I just I just appreciate all guys. That helped me absolutely Kenny. I didn't have a chance to talk to you before the show. But if you have to go you let me know if not would be happy to have you stick around to for more show. But I don't have time okay. Great excellent very good again. If you're just joining US sod buster Kenny Jay for three decades fixture of AWA television joining us today on the people you torch life cast. You can find this show. At P W torch live cast dot com or on five days a week. Tomorrow Torch Senior columnist Bruce Mitchell and the east coast cast dotcoms Travis. Bryant will be hosting at starting at seven eastern. That's a new Friday timeslot and the new Friday duo who host this show one. Quick Personal Note Business sort of if you didn't yet you can hear me on the Steve Austin show this week spending nearly two hours with Steve. Talking about Sunday's. Wwe extreme rules pay per view. If you want incentive to listen to it go onto my twitter. Feed the feedback has been tremendous as it usually is. I've been doing the Post pay per view shows Steve Austin every month for a while now and you can check that out on my twitter feed reviews of that at the Wade. Keller that is at the way Keller But yeah about an hour. Fifty minutes it Went live on Tuesday on itunes and over at podcast one. That is a Steve Austin. Show unleashed not the explicit version but the PG family friendly version almost two hours reviewing that show Mccarthy also joining me the former president of the Nick Bach Winkle Fan club and former AWA announcer longtime independent. Wrestling announcers. Still active today. I'm make I want to give you a chance here to talk about What you've got coming up where people can hear you announcing and some I know you're huge huge supporter of the indy wrestling. Cnn I like TV chance to plug. That I appreciate that. Yeah I mean that's Since the demise of the Awa the the independent wrestling scene in the state of Minnesota way do you know that I mean so many different promotions? The one that I'm involved with right now Very proud of it of course steel domain wrestling and promoter. Ed hellier going on about sixteen seventeen years now very very proud of the fact that you know some of the alumni Adam Pearce see Punk Colt Cabana. Eysenck deal. I mean it's just Austin Aries. Yeah I mean it's it's a great alumni. I mean Sean delivery. It's really really proud of it. And we're running shows about every five six weeks richfield American Legion Just outside of Minneapolis and then once a year we do a big show at the Hopkins Pavilion. And that'll be coming up in July so very very proud of what we're doing there so that That keeps me busy and You know I'm on. I'm on facebook. Twenty four seven. You know I might sleep for ten minutes but then I'm back on there and of course they've got a I got a wrestling fan page. typically old school wrestling. It's it's kind of the emphasis called slick mix wrestling fan page of all things and old time wrestling so you get a chance to check out and yeah. I'm I'm still keeping my name out there. I'm not waiting for that. Call from Vince anymore. I ever feeling that probably isn't going to happen So I think that by the telephone but You know wait. I'd rather talk to you. You know what I'm saying. Well thank you very searching for more great pro wrestling. Talk Join Me. Jason Powell hosted the three weekly pro whistling boom podcast. Each week. You'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other pro wrestling media members plus the pro wrestling boom podcast speeches long-form interviews with notable names in the wrestling industry subscribing to stitcher downcast and all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly at pw boom dot com once again that's pw boom dot com our phone over here. If you WANNA give us a call six four six seven two one nine eight two eight. That's six four six seven to one ninety eight twenty eight. We're taking your phone calls. If you WANNA talk about Vern Ganja. Let's go to our first caller the day Eric. Six five zero six five zero. Thank you for calling and holding. Please state your name and the city. You're calling from noon. This is Dante. I'm out in the San Francisco Bay area and I thank you for taking my call. Great thanks I wanted to Offer again my condolences on the passing of burn gone. Yeah quite a legend. I I grew up out here in the bay area in the bay area and I grew up as far back as the very late sixties and seventies with Ray Stevens Pat Patterson and the great restaurants out here. I wanted offer some Quick Air Bay. Area perspectives on. Burn Ganja and how much we appreciate it him First of all if you go back to the first Roy Shire Card in March nineteen sixty one referring to actually wrestled on that card cell. He was involved in the Bay Area Card with Roy. Shire just before Roy really exploded with Ray Stevens Pepper Storm viewed Moving up to nineteen eighty one. We were losing shires territory. He was spilling out wrestling to Kansas City. And then Florida and the cards worse dissipating and he was laying out and suddenly. Awa appeared on our on our local television station so We started getting cards in January of nineteen eighty one and basically. We weren't going to have live wrestling here. I was going to be the odd show was going to be difficult to find and thanks to burn bringing wrestling out here. You know that gave us two or three years before the national started coming in. Wwe and then ended up so I really appreciated that. He did that. I never our thing. I'd want to ask you guys for your For your comments on. Wouldn't you make the arguments? That burnt geographically was kind of the most national promotion at the time. Say Nice by Nineteen eighty-one. You can attest that and we can talk to Kenny after that about all the cities he wrestled in just when you look at a map make of the territories and even Google this wrestling wrestling territories nineteen seventies. Just Google that look at the images. I know they're up there. I've seen it before. The Awa just covers the largest swath of land from Chicago to Denver. And then a leap to San San the San Francisco Bay area mic. Talk talk about that aspect of it. You know. That's really interesting too because I think the perception and maybe it's because of the wrestling magazines was always of the big three. The Awa was number three and that was never never right. I mean they did have that much territory they did. Cover that much ground. You know. All the way from the bay area You know of course in San Francisco and Denver and Omaha Milwaukee Chicago Green Bay Winnipeg. I mean yeah they were. They were all over the place and and for some reason you know it was like Bach. Winkle was always perceived number three behind. Maybe you're back Leonard or your whole gun or your ric flair or or whoever? That absolutely is not is not correct. I mean that's that's a wrong perception and you know the caller alluded to you know Verne going into the bay area. There and of course he was working with his old tag team partner and friend the late. Leona Malini Bringing some shows out to Oakland and in that area we always helping to promote shows. So yeah I mean there's no question about it the Awa the scope of what they had Was just incredible and being an Awa guy is I am. I never could understand why the perception was as it was that you get you. Wwf and you got NWEA. Oh and by the way you got Awa because that is just ask backwards to me all energetic to your right mic that that was how I saw the national wrestling magazines. Also we're kind of used to it here. In Minnesota you know in a lot of ways in terms of the perception of that being here in the Midwest but the WWF W. WWF at the time was had New York. It was in the east coast a large part of the east coast so the national wrestling magazines. Based largely out of these coast would favor them New York Madison Square Garden. That's a big deal and the NWEA got an advantage over the Awa in the sense that the Awa was a territory a large one but the NWEA was dozens of territories. Or you know more than a dozen make territories and so just from pure how many shows on a given weekend is the NBA running. Well if you count all the NWEA territories a lot more than the AWA but as far as if you split off the NWEA territories and treat them as individual territories. The Awa was in many ways many times by many metrics the largest and I know wrestlers made great money working for the Awa Kenny talk about your travels. And the SCULPT AWA end its growth during during those peak years. Well you know I I. I wasn't like Full-time or or as a big star like Bach winkle run gone. Yeah Billy Robinson but I did it all right. Judo I I got to wrestle. Denver I gotTA Reser Chicago. I got wrestled. Green Bay Milwaukee and even Thunder Bay. You know I got around a lot you know but I had my business go on. I was landscaping. You know so I wasn't in full time but I'll tell you one thing In these times they needed me someplace. I was capable. Kitty Jay and I would be their Yup. We're about to go to another commercial break. Why are you listening to commercial breaks? Why deal with these interruptions when you can become a VIP member support the weight? Keller pro wrestling podcast. Wait Tiller progressing. Poll shows the Peterlee Torch daily casts and the entire team and everything that we do. And get a ton of return for your membership by becoming. Vip member go to POW TORCH VIP INFO DOT COM for full details. Thirty plus years of archives of podcast Retro Radio Shows Over Sixteen hundred back issues of the pro wrestling torch weekly newsletter fascinating march through our coverage of wrestling history and so much more including ad free versions of the way. Keller podcast wake up both shows. Npr Torch daily cast and several exclusive VIP podcast just about every day dozens of VIP exclusive podcasts. At you're not hearing because you're not a VIP member so go VIP POW TORCH VIP INFO dot com subscribe to our podcast feed and listen in a streamlined way with no interruptions to all of our podcasts. Again that's torch. Vip INFO DOT COM off. All right I want to go back to the follow up for discussion here with McCarthy and Kennedy J remembering Foreign Ganja and the Awa Dante anything else before we let you go really quickly. Wait I I came into the show late so I did not realize that kennesaw buster. Jay was in the house so I wanNA give a shout out Kenny. You're a great one. As far as I'm thankful I'm really sorry I had I come into the show late All this week I really really wanted to make it a priority to get these shows because I think this is the best show and Wade and all your guests you have are always going to offer the best perspective on the great career referring gone. Yeah I'M GONNA throw in one more quick comment. I wonder if you guys hear me out and see what you thought of this In Nineteen eighty-one Ray Stevens and PAT. Patterson were on the villain side of the dressing room in the AWA. However Bay area there was no way that burn could book them as villains or as heels. They were just weren't gonNA get booed so I appreciated his aforethought in kind of going against the system and he books Ray and pat as complete baby faces out here manually. I yeah even in those March nineteen. You were offended against style Jerry Blackwell for the first time I leave there with a mask where Ray Stevens in. The crusher teamed up against the Donaldson Torah which wo usual out here so I applaud fern for having the business sense at the end of the day you had to have the business sense and Yeah the K. Part was a little different stuff. They're all three of you. I appreciate very much appreciate that Dante before you go. What years were you most immersed in following awa? You've mentioned what's what's the range of years that you watch. I'm growing up. I always had read the magazines. Do I was aware of all the Federations but they first came to our. Uhf STATION NUMBER. Twenty in. Nineteen eighty or nineteen eighty. Let's say they nineteen eighty and it was just grow for us because Shire Federation was burning out. They were looking out or they were having good cards but they just weren't having enough of them and their fan base The first card in Awa was January of nineteen eighty one. It was a battle royal and it was a big sell out. Mr Non Malini. I used to see him wearing his blackened strikes. I we went up and he would always be in the arena The next two cars were both Bernie defenses against Jerry Blackwell and so I just felt I was honored to have gotten a C. Burn wrestle You Know Jerry. Blackwell of course wouldn't have been my first phone and I would have preferred to see a boxing match. But you know just being able to get perceiver and come into the ring and put the best up with a towel around his neck. You know just really great We followed them and went to the card consistently from B. One Two bay for a I mean all the way through ray basically but the cards were consistently about six weeks from eighty one to eighty four eighty five easily then it spread out a little bit more. They moved from Oakland to San Francisco as well. The SOD buster had to come out to one occasion for four more. Not right who who in the eighties? I Yeah I say yeah from. My biggest greer was sixty and sixty seventies and late early eighties. You know. That's when I got hit hard with arteritis you know so I had. I had the canceled a lot of matches but then after that I made a big comeback. I mean as far as the health goals but I I I Russell odd after you know even Vern Awa was gone then the little shows and I I did a lot of wrestling. You know but the Dow I am done. I took my copy of the wrestler Just two nights ago and I watched it once or twice over really enjoyed. Now is a great movie. It will always be in my collection and I think I'm GONNA have to go find my old. Vhs VHS tapes and fanatic. Actually I dr vern. We would the war here Rob Dinners Gobi. Very really gotten bad. And he's getting. How come you weren't on the movie raspberries and I know that you should have been on there? Well Kinda laid but thanks a lot guys. Wait I was also at Awa Super Class three where Mr Hennig won his awa title all vertical really. Yeah so I basically I've grown up with wrestling and I basically been to every event air in the San Francisco Bay area over probably forty or so years. I'm dating myself bed. But thank you for what you do. I appreciate the time and being able to expound. Thanks Dante that's great. Glad you called. Have you subscribed to the POW torch daily cast yet? It's a free daily podcast with shows throughout the week dedicated to ring of honor all elite wrestling impact wrestling major league wrestling an xt. And Emma may talk for pro wrestling fans. That's Monday through Friday and on Saturdays. Checkout the deep dive with Rich Fan where he examines a single topic in depth and then Sunday nights. It's wrestling night in America with Greg Parks. You can listen. Live or download the show later at W. Torch daily cash dot com. Just click on the live stream. Link you take your calls talking about wrestling's biggest events either ones that just took place or previewing shows that are right around the corner and on Sundays when. Wwe runs pay per views. He's live right after the pay per view at Twu Torch daily cast dot com reviewing the show. And taking your calls that's the POW torch daily cast light up just search. Pw Torch in Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your wrestling podcasts. Or visit our homepage to download or stream. The shows or find out more information. Pw TORCH DAILY CASTS DOT COM mic. I knew win. Dwa watching here in. Minneapolis Saint Paul We talked about going to San Francisco like as a fan that made me think. Wow the AWA is big time. It's not just the Minneapolis. Champion of Saint Paul Is. It really gave the impression that the AWA was was big time. What did what. How did the perception of the AWA change for you over the years as you learned more about the larger wrestling see nationally and internationally and burnt? Ghana's place in it and what is kind of stepping back from it? It also the big picture legacy of Verne Ganja. I always say it's kind of a shame that the Monday night war Roberson Nitro Ted Turner. Buying out. Nwea the top promoter. Jim Crockett junior at the time. Changing the name w w the lineage of the NWEA because of WCW and WWF. Buying them out. And of course W. F. as the winners on the last man standing so to speak. They W GETS SHORT. Short changed in terms of historical recognition. But it is as significant as any territory during the sixties and seventies so kind of. Where's Vern Ganja placement? As as a major star having headlined in so many different cities and for so long with such success the reality is weighed. I think it depends on who you talk to and sad to say. A lot of people. Don't remember their perception of Verne. Gonyea is from the nineteen eighties on you know. I mean it's hard to you know. We're talking thirty five years ago so it really is generation but the people who even watch some of the Verne Guy and Youtube and and I know Donte was talking about nick. Bach Winkelmann burn even. Then you Verne's fifty years old plus and when Verne lost the title debacle in one thousand nine hundred eighty one In one thousand nine hundred ninety five Verona's already forty nine years old so his place in wrestling. I think it depends on who you talk to somebody like me. Somebody like George Shire. I know that Verne Ganja is absolutely one of the one of the real honest to God legends in wrestling and he should be noted as such a long before they were at the Saint. Paul Civic Center. Yeah you're fifty sixty seventies. Whatever anybody we've talked about this before anybody who was anybody came through the wwl territory especially from nineteen sixty odd and you think of all the guys that burn trained and they went on to become great great stars so in the scheme of things of burnt out on. You was the pioneer You know on the Dumont in Chicago. He was one of the first nationally known wrestling stars. In the nineteen sixties the AWA came into prominence in the seventies. She Got Bockel Stevens You know the cluster met slot area. Everybody is on top. I mean this is one hell of a territory and even until I'm GonNa say maybe wrestle rock. Some people will say that. That was kind of the You know the first indicator after wrestling wrestle rock that things were going downhill In the scheme of things in Ganja was a big time player will understand the impact that he had not only as a professional wrestling celebrity but as a wrestler and that the difference because You know and I saw the wwe. And God bless them. They put up a TRIVIA VIDEO VERN. Ganja the other a and and. I'm sure they're sincere condolences but they refer to burn is a sports entertainer and believe me. That would be the last thing to burn would wanna be called this sports entertainer because he was a wrestler he was a bonafide tough guy and he gave professional wrestling. I think this goes to to your point about what did he mean to the old school fan. He gave wrestling credibility. He gave wrestlers credibility These are the kind of guys that he would wanna put on top in the AWA. The Bach wingels even mad dog had the amateur wrestling background. And Burn. And Billy Robinson and Wilbur Snyder and guys like this if you if you were top in the Awa you were on top with a wrestling company. So in that sense to me. The Awa was probably and burned. Ganja was probably the last vestige of old school suspend the disbelief. These guys are great wrestlers an amateur wrestling background. They no no. They're holes. This is the real deal It may have been the last of it with the AWA. So in terms of legacy That's the imprint. That's the impact and vern. Ganja was recognized by sports illustrated in the year. Two thousand as one of the fifty greatest sports figures from each state and Verne was in his prime years and if so credible because of what he accomplished as an amateur wrestler and that was vern really looked to that. I mean even Scott Norton and the ad when I interviewed her in Ganja. The first torch talk I ever did and I wrote about this in this week's pro wrestling torch newsletter. And I put excerpts of of this remarkable interview that kind of opened my eyes to what interview could be like when somebody opened up and talked openly about the inner workings of the business. It's very ironic. Verne was the person who started that the torch tongue series of insider interviews but he talked about his frustrations within McMahon stealing all his talent. Now already at work to get there and build it up comedy. Had and of course the sad infamous comet about bruiser brody getting what he asked for in reference to probably getting what he asked for in reference to getting murdered in the locker room at Puerto Rico wrestling show he was. He opened up in a way that he probably never had been before because he had been probably interviewed and by mainstream media in a more fluffy way. And I asked him questions he wanted to answer and I even at that point still the teenager very early in the torch ears. I was able to ask him some probing questions that got him to open up and and he talked about the value of of skin. That injury Scott Norton being an arm wrestling champion. Like he looked for anything. That was a legit sports background as the foundation. Give credibility to his talent or his wrestlers. That he that he featured and vern came from that he was hugely successful. Ncw Wrestler at the University of Minnesota with multiple big ten titles and NCWA championships and also a real standout a good football player. And I believe he played or tried out for Green Bay packers. Maybe but yeah I mean. Just that legit sports background was really important to him and he always looked for that and that was something that gave pro wrestling which wasn't on the up and up and people were always skeptical of it but it wasn't as well known or spoken about Obviously it was. People didn't speak openly about how pro wrestling operated. If much if at all in the fifties sixties and seventies it Vern really hung onto that to the end. In fact when he talked to me about Hogan Hulk Hogan every taught him everything he didn't know anything and I taught him but make one of her big legacies. Kind of trying to lead here in. This is Hogan Vern Ganja doesn't get in most circles in some circles he does but in most circles doesn't get the credit he deserves for creating Hulkamania for directing Hulk Hogan and how to be a top. Ab Face. I mean I think would be valuable for Roman reigns right now to tie it into today's wrestling scene. Vern about that with me and that torch talk and Hogan gave shout out to him after he died this week. Talk about Verne's instinct for being a baby face and what he did to help Hulk Hogan become this huge star that Vincent Man Basically recruited and signed away from well. I'm going to take a step back first and then I'll you know know you brought up a great point about burn wanting to legitimize wrestling in any way he could. I mean first and foremost it was the amateur wrestling background. If you had that if you were the Brad rings or you know or Larry. Hanoch or anybody like that and bird could say look at this guy's amateur wrestling background. He was the real deal. you know. That was first and foremost with him. But you know you brought up a great point. Scott Norton had the arm wrestling championship. Background can participate a world class weightlifter. So as long as vern could mention guys it he was bringing into the business that had legitimate legitimate amateur. Sports background it legitimized professional wrestling. And you know it was and again I get to the point about Hulk Hogan and a second. You know the point that you brought up about interviewing vern and him being used to fluff questions and not being used to who you know getting asked the hard hitting questions. I can only imagine what that was like for earned guide. Yeah I mean it'd be because you don't vern and Nick Bach Winkle and guys like this that held onto the very absolute end in defending the business and the the realism end legitimacy of it that had to be totally abhorrent to Verne to get questions like that and you know I knew him I and I know he didn't when he trained guys he didn't smarter them up until it was time to the ring. I mean starting slaughter and Rick Flair guys like that. They'll talk about that. They went through the training camp and Verney was absolutely a hundred percent legitimate on the level. You know until it was time for you to be told otherwise so You know that was again. You know just just kind of to your point about vern you know reaching out to the to the other amateur sports as far as what he did with. Hulk Hogan absolutely you know there's another one you and burn does have a right or did have a right to be upset because he did mold Hulk Hogan you know all along with Gregg and the other guys were in the Awa at the time Nick and Ray Stevens and whoever else they directed the sky they taught him how to cut a promo they you know. Hogan was was pretty stiff. You know when he first came in and he was doing his promos you know especially as he'll promos. Audi st always had somebody talking for them you know Fred Blassie or whoever it was and vern really did direct him and I can understand his consternation and being aggravated because everybody all whole cogan burst onto the scene and you know nobody gives fern credit or there was no hulk Hogan career before Nineteen eighty-four in the eyes of some people. There was no whole Holden's and his t-shirts mic that are out now say Hulkamania established in one thousand nine hundred four or nineteen eighty-three. Yeah it's just it's and that's disgusting because you're you got a guy for a couple of years that he was here in the aws. I mean those thousand nineteen thousand Sell out to the St Paul Civic Center and you know they were doing that all over the horn no matter where HOGAN WITH CHICAGO MILWAUKEE DENVER. It was sell out crowds and basically to you know to crap on that and say you know there was no whole Cogan. There was no Hulkamania until he'd beat the Iron Sheik is absolutely bs and yet I completely understand why vern was upset by that. I will say in my interview with with fern. I don't think I the questions I asked. Were not in any way like confronting him or or challenging him to speak about how matches were a work because it just wasn't done but just asking him about Vince McMahon and the expansion into German territory the signing away of talent his thoughts on I knew when I asked about one carbo or or bruiser brody different people that he had up down relationships with. I figured I'd probably get some sort of you know I was trying to. I didn't ask about Kenny. Jake's figured he'd say Nice Guy. I wanted to get more provocative answers but was when I asked about a Hulk Hogan he says I think he came along at a very opportune time and that line really jumps out because I wrote in the cover story in this torture newsletter about how Ho came around an opportune time in the sense. That Verne retires in May of eighty-one Hogan is headlining a couple months. Later a few months later as the lead baby face a completely different type wrestler than fern was used to burn is much is he gets. He's given a hard time for staying with the times and being behind the Times he had. Maybe reluctantly maybe gritting his teeth. But he didn't he did not refuse to push hulk. Hogan on top visit doesn't think didn't think Daniel Bryan was worthy of being on top and it took only complete rejection of Batista and injuries and all kinds of other things for him to get a short run and we'll never know how would have gone with him because of all the health problems and injuries afterwards but I actually went with Hogan keep promoted him. On top and hope was hugely successful than it really was a transitionary time that preceded wrestlemainia that preceded the rock and wrestling connection vern being willing to give a headline spot and and directing Hogan in a way that maximized what can had an and. I want to go to Kenny Hogan Second Foot. Make your thoughts on that and that Verne. Maybe gets a bad rap for not you know yes. He didn't keep going around and they had business disputes. But Hogan was when it gets everything for an stood for and yet he still of course the money was everything pushed him to the top. I think you hit it right on the head. Their money was everything and as much as vern wanted to maintain that old school mentality. You know all of a sudden my God the cash registers are overflowing everywhere with Hulk Hogan so I mean he basically had no choice. I mean this guy's there. Hey let's let's ride tidier and you know. Certainly money talks to But not including putting Hogan over is the champion and that I think is is really came here to Wayne was kind of damned if you do damned if you don't because you know here. This guy is on top. And he's feuding with everybody from David Schultz. Jesse Ventura Mr Saito. You know right on down the line right. Yeah but Bach. We go again Joe. It came time. Switch the strap and that wasn't going to happen You Know Verne still went with the old guard. He still went with the wrestler And I mean that from a from a technical standpoint. He went was a wrestler as opposed to the big muscular blond guy from Venice Beach But again it goes back to you know again what you said a little bit earlier on you know the burn you know. Maybe he got a bad rap because he didn't hang on to hold onto long. Maybe got a bad rap because he He didn't the strap on them. Maybe in retrospect he should have done that but in terms of what he created with whole Cogan. Absolutely it's documented. That's another part of Oregon legacy that people should absolutely recognize and You know again boy. The Times were changing back. Then I think the whole thing was so rule wind for Verne back in the day and again when he retired and he came back in. Nineteen eighty-six for wrestle rock. You know how old was he was sixty some years old when he came back or sixty sixty when he came back restaurants and you know the whole wrestling world is just like flying away from him and he did everything he could. You know you mentioned earlier. The part about you know. Burn keep up with the times and he should have done this and that you know what you know. Since he really tried given the the parameters of what trying was to burn Ganja he left the old studio the small studio format he went out to Atlantic city. He went out to the showboat in Las Vegas. He tried different things. Yeah he went with the midnight rockers. You know and he I mean he really tried as best as he could while he was gritting his teeth. You know to to kind of go with the flow. But you know it just wasn't to be people who say you know did burn hang onto long? Was He with old school mentality. You know who didn't Vince outlast? In the scheme of things and everybody everybody's gone I mean some people it took longer than others but he outlasted everybody. Nobody kept up with them. And I wil as far as giving Hogan the belt VIN vern liked. He worked with people in the especially in the seventies but even the sixties who were friends of his or the crusher. You know a love hate relationship with businesswise over the years but you know he. Nick Bach Winkle were there was a trust there. And there wasn't with Stan. Hansen Stan. Hansen came in after Hulk. Hogan was part of kind of parallel. The Road Warrior era the Post Hogan Road Warrior and Stan Hansen and Rick. Martel Awa kind of before the last chapter of Bisco in the rockers and buddy rose and Doug somers and Hanson walked out and didn't come in and they had to just hand at boxing title different title belt than the one Hanson left with no showed and maybe vern looked at that and said you know what had I given Hogan Belt. That probably would happen earlier with Hulk. Now you could say that's Burns fault for the weekend business with talent but vern may have looked at the Hansen incident as as kind of a validation of his unwillingness to go all the way with Hogan before he felt more comfortable on a business relationship and friendship with them because hope was of a different generation in vern was used to working with his generation Bach winkle crusher Stevens Patterson Robinson and Macau did that play into it that was just a different generation. Verne was having a hand over the keys to the shift to somebody that he just didn't know where trust besides the fact that hope wasn't that amateur stand out. That was a great point weight. And if you think about it and you mentioned Stan Hansen. That's a perfect example. And then bruiser brody bringing in bruiser brody. I mean there's guys came in that were totally hundred and eighty different than what Verne was used to and guys would never in a million years think I would bring in the road. Warriors perfect example. You know you go back to to Jesse Ventura one thousand nine hundred eighty four. You Know Jesse. All of a sudden he's gone. You know one day you know verbs portion of the next day he's gone Brody is walking out in the middle of matches. Dan Hansen runs over a title belt. I is this is. This is the generation that burn was dealing with and and so clearly you can understand why he turns to the Bach wiggles he turns to the Baron von Raschke sadly to the detriment of the AWA. Because you know the guys were you know into their fifties at the time. Although you know an argument could be said that Nicholas still phenomenal. Even you know in one thousand nine hundred eighty six when he wrestled. Kurt Nicholas Fifty two years old or whatever. It was When they went to a one hour Broadway but but again I mean just Yeah totally Generational Mick Nichols Auditorium. I want to jump in and say this to wrestling fake wrestling fans love undertaker at age fifty wrestling. Wrestlemainia fans have been clamoring for five years for sting who finally at age fifty five the same year as verts retirement match the same age showed up at Wrestlemainia for the first time in wrestled triple h triple H in his mid forties still put himself on TV. All the time more than Virginia did. Probably I duNno. Ratio-wise maybe similar. It happens in every generation and and so many different territories and different settings the legendary wrestlers when they left wrong power end up. Still THE FANS. Don't pay to see him and obviously when somebody whether it's it's undertaker and staying don't have a stake in the company or somebody like AAA who does. There's a temptation to either take the payday. Or keep your grip on that power that comes from being the star of the show because nobody can take that away from you vern. Ganja though was criticised late sixties through the say mid seventies because he had so much talent to work with the WHO were big stars but he held on as champion and I guess one question I want I want to give to you. Make did did vern deserve criticism. During that time. For hanging on too long because billy superstar Billy Graham Nick Bog winkle Ray Stevens crusher billy Robinson you can list big names should vern have given a turn to them on top especially when crusher was by a lot of metrics bigger draw vernon certain markets Yes I I think he probably should have given them a turn here. Here's the thing I mean you go back a little bit. A little bit farther than that. Like to the sixties he would give crusher attorney and he would have mad. Dog was on top for a couple of years. So you know as it got into the late sixties into the early seventies then vern started to cling to the biltmore and put himself on top more and for longer periods of time. And and that kind of thing and you know that was not a good thing And and part of the problem to wade is back then and again. You're talking one thousand. Nine hundred seventy two. I think is a perfect example. Seventy two seventy three. When he had all that talent that you're talking about vern defended the AWA title. I believe and this is not just in the twin cities. This is like all over the horn a dozen times or fifteen times the entire year and I think that added to the perception of wait a minute now. You know you're getting on in years burn. You don't look so good when you're in the rain you know and you know you you get ring rust. I mean let's face it. You know you wrestle. You know that infrequently and you're on top so bad added to the perception that maybe he should have passed the title around because he did have tremendous talent back. Then so yeah. Is there in all different? Hang onto long. Yeah but as you said he certainly not alone every every major promotion Especially when the guy owns the company. They've done the same thing everywhere and I think with burn sad to say the last ten years of his career because he rustled so infrequently. It was more glaring that he wasn't passing the title around. Yeah Yeah now is not the time to for razors at the drug store. Harry's no sometimes it's better to stay inside and that's why they shipped directly to you so you can experience the quality of Harry Shave in just a few days from the convenience of your own home. Here's razors because of the fit and finish of the razor blade for me. I don't like putting a cheap plastic blade or a heavy blade. That's off balance up against my face when I'm shaving. 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Lathering Shave Gel with aloe keep your skin hydrated and a travel blade cover to keep your razor dry and easy to grab on the go so go to harrys dot com slash daily cast to start shaving better today. That's harrys dot com slash daily cast to get a free Harry's trial set and I love the packaging. It comes in to talk a lot about Kobe. Kenny Jay multi decade up wrestler. For the AWA. What do you were you around Hogan much when Hulk took off after retirement? Well I was there when the Hulk Hogan was in Wrestling here and me and him. We got along real great and I mean I never run guy but he was a lot younger than me but I I knew him real well but I guess Vents had him tied up. So you had to leave for New York and Yes yes but you know now I mean hulk was like seventeen. I think. Seventeen years older or younger than you. You know that. That's a generation or two. Did you look at Hogan when he was around as wild? This is the future of wrestling. This guy look at the way the crowds reacting to him. Or did you look at them? Somewhat skeptically going. This might be a fad. Because he doesn't look like the main event wrestlers who who. I've been in the ring with that. I've watched rob a crowd. So what was your perception? At that time I really look at him as a great adly great wrestler. He had a great physique. He had potential. You know he had everything going for him you know. And he was young and he had everything going for them and I would have to give anything in my My soul to be like him you know but I. There's no way I could because I wasn't in that great shape but he did have everything going for him and I got you all the credit for what did and all you know. He did And He made. He made him saw something themselves. I gotTa give him credit for that. Would you say that at that time you were in favor of of him? Being the new lead baby face the lead hero of the AWA. Did you look at this and go? Yeah this is the next big star well not a bad time because he just came into the territory and you know there was a great guy. You know walkway over and gone belly. Roberson you know he had to go to Grace Sable there to get to get on top you know but So he he had a lot to go yet. A lot of ways older yet on top but Like I said he had everything. Go on Vermeer's young. He had the physique he had to Allen he was. He was a great great wrestler. Kenny who was vern Ganja friends with among wrestlers. And who did he simply have a business relationship with among the top names? We've talked about or some of the other wrestlers that That were around. Burn a lot in other words. Who were his friends who he would call his friend. They would call him there in. Who looked at vern as a boss and colleague but really not a friend. He had wrestlers on the side. You know like the crusher. You know he was. He was a great guy. You know and And like I said when the when I was interviewed when he died. I said there will never be another crush air. You know and now verizon and they'll never be another verd- you know I mean. They all had their own ways and their own style. You don't like mad dog you know he's gone and he was a great friend of mine even though he kicked the crap out of me many times you don't but He did a lot of help for my benefit. You know and I appreciate what these guys and you know. It's hard to it's a you know. So Dale worrying there. They did their thing. They're all the rating. WanNa do great in the so I over and has the he has some good talent. You know so what he did. Good I I gotta say that where for Virgin was a great promoter. A great wrestler degrading family. Mem- when you were around the matches did vern carry himself as one of the boys or as the boss who separated himself out of necessity from mingling. Like you might have with other wrestlers did did I kind of have to put himself in a separate area or did he. Just if you didn't know he was the boss. Would you observe backstage? No he was funny would say that because I know one time he came in the TV station. He said I'm here. You're you guys are working for me you know and I couldn't believe that but You know it wasn't directly to me. But you know they they use for TV. They usually get guys in from Chicago and Canada. You know and And and some guys would reese Adams or looking you know but he he was a businessman. It was not a promoter. He was a businessman and he did. It does a great because you can look back on on his Ferrario and he did. He made money you know. So he was a great businessman Great Wrestler and he did everything right to t- so you know Vernon said he'll me got me Mohammed Ali. He got me in Japan. He got me. Put me in the six man tag. You know he didn't have to but Maybe world is the SOD buster. He's got potential. I don't know what it was but I really appreciate it to this day and I'll never forget it. Thank you for listening to the weight. Keller pro wrestling podcast. Be Sure to subscribe. Also if you haven't yet subscribed to the weight. Keller pro wrestling. Po shows this show. The podcast have our blue logo. The Weight Tiller progressing post shows have a red logo just search Wade. Keller an apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to progressing podcasts. And Click subscribe to the red logo and you can download our raw smackdown. Eighty W and sometimes annex t PO SHOWS. I'm joined by CO host to add a different perspective to the analysis for the show where we talked to live callers onsite correspondent in the building who tell us what did not air TV and we also answer Male Bay questions. Those shows are available for download within a few hours after. The show's end on Monday Wednesday and Friday nights. So there's a fast turnaround to get your fix so check it out. That's the Wade. Keller pro wrestling post show just search. Wade. Keller you can also stream the show live at Wade Keller polls show dot com about five minutes after. The show's end on Monday Wednesday and Friday night. Kenny I can I. I'm sorry. Go ahead we let let me ask what I remember. Your thought sure did burn. Ever let his guard down and and relax as especially well at any time that you were around him or did he had different jobs. Kenny and you know the boss can only be so friendly with people who is writing paychecks out to right did never really let his guard down at the bar afterwards. Or when you're hanging out waiting around for this that or the other thing or travelling or did fern Kinda always have to have his guard up. Treat himself like Hey. You guys worked for me on the bus. No he the guy down sometime. I know we went to a fishing trip where he's He's placed in In Minnesota here and we you know he d- He D- He had parties for the guy sometimes. Now and then you know and we had would while they boy don't went out fish on and then we brought fish. I mean they made. That was once every five years or so. You know but he. He wasn't always a stern You know do this do that but He was a great guy and say once in a while he wouldn't let his hair down sorta speaking of but And and be a family man and a great great. You Know Promoter Mick. Yeah go ahead what I was going to say. Wait I. That's that's a good point and again I I you know. Talk not from first-hand experience because I was on the peripheral edges there and only would see certain things or hear certain things from the boys to your point about whether or not he had friends. I think he did. But it really depended on who you were And I don't know if it was necessarily the pecking order But and some of the younger guys that I would talk to who may have been disgruntled over the years working for her and of course you know these same guys made money you know they you know for all the the pissing and moaning that they do or did they certainly made money back in the day and and They didn't complain about that but I I don't know that had a wide social circle among the wrestlers I think Verne social circle was the rest of society. If that makes sense it does And maybe a handful of guys. I know that you know he and nick were were close. from a business standpoint again going back to the to the early sixties Wilbur. Snyder I think he and mad dog Rashad had a real good relationship with each other so I think it depends on who you were. Maybe not so much the undercard guys maybe their perception was you know. The burn is the boss. And I'm over here I think what I saw as time went on. And certainly my tenure in the Awa back in eighty seven. Eighty Eight I there really was a separation and maybe that was because of the tension. They add that the business had changed and things were changing a little bit. You know for burn so there really was that line drawn in the sand and you have the boys over here for the most part burn was over here and it's interesting. I mean even guys like Barron Raskin and Larry Hannigan Stan Kowalski Guys. Who you know made a lot of money and worked for burn for years and years and war on top. I don't necessarily think they would say the Verne was their best friend. But from a business standpoint. He took care of him. And you know what you don't have to be friends necessarily you know if if this is a business and we're making money And burn being the perfectionist in the in the professional that he was You know that that's just the way it was and You know I so school of Friends. Yeah the whole community was his school of France. I don't necessarily know about the boys per se but he didn't look down at the rest of like well they work for me. I'm friends with the governor. And with God's Oh Yeah. Yeah no no absolutely not. I think that you know again to your point earlier. was ruining genuine guy. Absolutely he was and and I think when it came to business business business and you know whether he was the taskmaster at the TV studios you know cutting promos for fifteen hours and banging his forehead when you know when the Promo go correctly or whatever it was you know that was the one side of burn gone yet it. It was business. We got a product here that we want to be believable. We want it to be you know top notch we want. No you know. We want to cross all the t's and dot the I's and make sure that this is the real deal. You CAN'T BLAME THEM FOR THAT. In the end that he rubs some people the wrong way because of that and because he became more hard nosed over the years probably absolutely he did but You know bottom line is dollars and sense and you can't argue with a promotion that lasted for fifty years and made a ton of money. Absolutely if you're a wrestling fan you're a fan of good story and if you're looking for a good story look no further than stories of your and yours. I'm Sean. Ns and on every episode of stories of your and yours. I narrate a classic or listener submitted. Short story adding music and sound effects to bring the story new flavor. I featured authors such as Edgar Allan Poe Kurt Vonnegut Ray Bradbury Mark Twain and many more. So don't wait any longer. Download stories of your. That'S WHY O. R. E. AND YOURS THAT'S Y. O. U. R. S. Today and if you WanNa hear clips and get more information you can find the show on facebook twitter and Instagram at S. Y. Y podcast that stories of your and yours available. Wherever you get your podcasts. I do want to say to you know. His final years suffering from Alzheimer's. He was mostly out of the public guy. He made that appearance three years ago. A little over three years ago at a A showing of the nineteen eighty four movie. The wrestler Gregogna was there. Greg Ghani was live on this show during that showing in the lead up to or because they they did. Multiple airings day in Gregogna was on the show that day and I encourage people listening to this. Vip member you can go right to the torch. Live cast interviews section. Just do a search on your browser for Greg on your Ganja and it'll take you to that page and if your life cast listener you might be able to dig through and find it but that I think it was. I think it was in January of twenty twelve. When when that when that was ratio and vern he had the incident at at a nursing home. gone a scuffle with a fellow. Last time he got a lot of publicity in this market was when he got into some sort of a scuffle with a fellow resident at the Care Center and that resident fell broke his hip and eventually died and then Vernon ended up being taken care of at home. And I've heard that his family cared for specially Donna. Ganja and I mean we haven't you know it's kind of it's not just cliche. I think it's genuine people. Say condolences to the family. But I do want to before we end the show. Make note of the fact that his family stuck by Kathy. And Greg Donna and Donna and others were there to to the absolute very end and I don't have a lot of details on his final days or anything like that but and I haven't seen the family talk about it other than they were by his side to the end and Donna had especially taken on a real intensive role in taking care of her dad during that time. Make you want to talk to Kenny? Because he's mentioned what a good family man from was mic talk about the dynamic with Verne and his kids his daughters and a son and working in the office. Greg working as a wrestler. In what you've heard in recent years about that dynamic if anything well in recent years you talked about the Alzheimer's taking You know taking the toll on Vernon and that is such an insidious insidious disease wait. I mean you know and there's more and more public awareness about it and sad to say a lot of the guys from Bruins era you know are are having difficulty with that and I know you know I. I've heard through the grapevine from some pretty reliable sources over the past few years There were times when it was a living hell You know going through that. Not just with vern. I mean he's the example we're talking about but Again it's insidious and and what the family has to be aware when they're caretaking is just incredible No his kids were incredibly devoted to him. they always were and the always stood up for. They were always they were. Pr For earned. Ganja I mean I remember I had done on on Saturday night ringside and I had Kathy on Saturday. Night a ringside. You know. He had a couple of times. And they were always the spokesman. There were always defending them. They were always defending the Awa so the loyalty was always there. And and of course Greg and it's really interesting. Greg occasionally now will refer to burn as my day Ab but a Lotta Times. He always call him vern over the years and I thought that was really really interesting. But but certainly the respect that he had for his father. justifiably. I think they were very very tight. Knit family and that goes to the extended family two year about the the cousins and brothers and relatives and everybody else You know who just rallied around bird all those years and especially in in the past few years so The family dynamic I think was beyond reproach in When you say condolences to the guy new family I mean condolences. I mean doesn't even begin to scratch service and I actually heard Greg on a podcast yesterday. another podcast and he was talking about the outpouring From the public has just been unbelievable beyond his wildest imagination the outpouring of love and affection for Verne. Ganja so Certainly a tight knit family. I just want to say one thing before we go about Working for ruined Guy And again I did it for a short time and I. I've told you before all those years that I worked for the Awa doing publicity and everything else which was from nineteen seventy-three on I have not talked to earn Ganja until Nineteen eighty-four begin. Imagine that I mean so. I'm doing all this publicity for the newspapers and everything else but wally carbon was my goal. Between so I real association with burn was from Nineteen eighty-four on and then of course in eighty seven when I started working out The showboat A lot of you know there are a lot of people. Say a lot of things about over the years and you know whether it's a former employee or whatever I mean ruined had his quirks you know as as the business was Changing and everything else but I gotta say I mean and you know I'm I'm getting up there too. I'm in Gregory Gym Brazil. You Know Age area and for me a kid of nine years old back in nineteen sixty getting on the ring apron getting burned down his autograph and then having the opportunity to work for him twenty seven years later. I mean vern gotten was my hero. I mean Virginia and Harmon killebrew were made to sports heroes. And whatever you say about Burn Ganja and you know I saw the temporary so the good side I saw the bad side. I was blessed. I was absolutely blessed and honored and it was a privilege to at one time. Be An employee of Verne. Ganja and you know I would just say to any of the young guys who want to study the history of pro wrestling and find out. What a real legend is. Look up run Ganja and I will be eternally grateful to him and Greg For putting me on the payroll and just working alongside burn down you was. It was a gift and I. I'm just I'm blessed. I'm rich band host of the deep dive with Richmond. A weekly part of the Pierre Torch Fairly cast lineup of shirts. Search torch an apple podcasts. Or your podcast. Subscribe every Saturday at six. Pm Eastern. I dive in with guests for an hour and anything in the world of wrestling or wrestling related. WanNa hear about the influence of historical figures. Like big can lead. We got you WanNa hear about how crazy marine movies got we are no topic is too big or too small so if you want to dive in with this call in live or listen on demand and see the entire. Pw Torch daily cast schedule at POW TOWARDS DAILY CASPER DOT COM. Let's let's bring Kenyan final words in that regard to Kenny. Talk about vern as you say as a family man and what what you observed whether it was at one of his party's or at a show when his his family might have been around and maybe even talk about the dynamic with Vernon Greg in the loyalty? That was there. Well I guess they Verne was does He. He loved wrestling he lived for wrestling. You know he did it all his life. Almost you know once he started going to Libya's nine forty eight I'll he He held me so much. You know I mean I was a nobody you know I was just getting injured. Assad buzzer came I'm from Holy Board farmer and and when I came out of the Army I came here to work for Wally Carville and then vern gone. They got in there you know and they helped me so much you know like I say they got to go to Japan for a month. Here and And then the I got the Mohammed Ali and they got three on the six man. You know I it's Nobody I never was a never did amateur thing because my school didn't have it in holy Lord but I I loved wrestling once they got going into into it. And Milwaukee you know and then when I finally got out of the army and come here and then he really helped me. I mean wally. Kara helped me build Jewish. I mean bill He told me you know. Yeah time I wanted to go to walkers year dairy and also you know I am not going to stick in my mind for the rest of my life you know and I got Wall Carpool and Burn Gandhi. And all you know all these guys do do thank you. Thank me so I gotTa thank him. All you know and And thanks a lot. You know Wayne for having me on absolutely Kenny at a and I'm just so pleased or able to join us you or around Verne for so many years and it's great to get a wrestler's perspective somebody who knew him as well as you did and as his grateful towards what he did for you as you are. So thank you for your name and and sticking with us here today okay absolutely a lot. Yes absolutely fight. The Greg Greg Guinier dynamic a little bit how just talk a little bit about that and take it where you want because Greg Vern top top star in Awa? Big Draw Greg Ganja ended up having a good solid career and I still. I talked to Steve Austin on his podcast and multiple times when when he spent on my shore. I've been on his. We talked about how Greg Gone is the prototypical guy in terms of a baby. Fae showing fire and just getting the crowd riled up like I mean there's a lot of Greg that Ernest baby-faced Promo is something. That's I won't say entirely missing from the business today. I think Sammy's and actually tap into it a little bit. But there's a lot that great did well but greg lived in the shadow of Verne and Verne. Took some heat for Promoting Greg. But he did stop short at promoted to the top. You know it's interesting it and I've always said great really. Got A bum rap. I mean he's he does to This Day. You know talking about you. Know the nepotism and everything else in the end. Greg wouldn't have been a star another promotional. I guess there's some truth to the fact that maybe he wouldn't have been on top heavy gone to another territory but to denigrate Greg's ability in the ring I think is really unfair First of all you got the size issue. It was always odds. There's no credibility there's no believability here. When you know Greg I'm tossing Bobby Duncombe Maurice Tossing around Jerry Blackwell or whatever. Well that's interesting because you got your Jeff Jarrett's and you got your kindle Wyndhams and you know you got guys like that You know the nobody really made an issue out of it As far as the size David and Goliath situation but Greg was one hell of a worker and you know you talk about the earnest baby face and that is absolutely a lost art. I agree with you I mean everything is so scripted anyway You know nobody really knows how to cut a serious baby face. I'M GONNA get my revenge kind of promo anymore. They they just don't So I think Greg really got a bomb rap. He sold his ass off for everybody. And you said foreign didn't push him right to the top you know he. He came a little bit short of that he gave him the taking titles with you know with. Brazil and of course he gave him the that international TV titled Towards the end of the AWA. Run there but ruin was smart enough not to put Greg right at the top because I think you know the wrestling fans especially as the business was changing. Would've just eaten them a life Which is too bad because Greg you look at some of the match Greg Bach Winkle You know or even Black Weller Brody or anybody like that and and Austin said well the baby fish on fire. I mean boy. I you talk about somebody believable Greg was yet so I I think in a and Greg took it seriously. I I gotTa tell you I worked. You know the time that I was there I saw Greg in the locker room. And boy I tell you what if you were in enhancement guy or somebody else that were taking it seriously. He was all over you and you know he defended the business. He defended his dad. I think he was a great worker and give her a credit for the fact that he didn't Porch Greg to the moon. I think he game just enough. Greg got tremendous fan response. People you know in this area. Don't you know around? The country might not realize just how over guidance Brunell were. And you know it's interesting you know Greg and Jim are going to be getting the you know the tag team award next year at Cauliflower Alley I think that speaks volumes for the recognition that Greg is is finally getting Towards the end there you know from the Awa. The wheel started to come off a little bit You know in Greg was kind of the face of the promotion there towards the end again. I think the bad rap started to follow him a little bit but I got nothing but respect for the guy and I think Verne handle him very very well and I think. Greg carried himself well considering all the criticism. He was getting my final topic for you. And you're certainly welcome. Bring up anything that you any topic that cross your mind that we didn't get to where I didn't get to but Verne's most successful opponents. Knickebocker comes to mind instantly. Billy Robinson did tell list kind of in order Who you think were the top five or expand that list if you want to. Who were that? Who was that top tier of opponents whose careers were defined by wrestling vern? And they helped define Verne's career. Wow that's really an interesting question I I think. Nick certainly is right. Up there I think mad dog was Sean Mad. Dog had a reputation But but certainly when he won the strap burn in nineteen sixty four method was kind of Journeyman as far as the AWA was concerned. Then all of a sudden you know he gets the title and the rest of history so I think he clearly benefited by you. Know getting the rubbed Robertson Billy again you know had a worldwide reputation but again getting in the ring and it was always burn. When you're going to defend the title against Billy Robinson and you know. This was in an era when Verne would get himself disqualified. You would go into. The ring is kind of the subtle. He'll a little bit against guys. Like Billy Robinson Bill Watts and Eduardo Carpaccio. And guys like that So I think Robinson definitely benefited from I think some of the other guys were probably established already. But you know the bill watts I think is another one that comes to mind. Crusher was already established. But you know I think you know just getting into the ring with a guy like vern You know certainly put your over his top five opponents per se Feuds over the years absolutely boxing Richon probably crusher for a time when crusher was a he`ll. Dick Beyer Dr Acts Very very worthy opponent. You know and tremendous feuds and then you go back to the nineteen fifties and Vernon Liu says at a series of matches all over the Horn so He was the real deal and What else can you say? I know on a personal level as this news broke. I followed you on facebook and this hit you hard. I mean it was. It's not I wouldn't say it was unexpected in the sense that he's eighty nine years. Old suffering from Alzheimer's doesn't make a lot of public appearances. And did I say he's eighty nine years old? I mean just statistically speaking. It's not the same thing as of as of thirty four year old getting hit by a bus that said it's the absolute period at the end of such a huge public figure in your life as a fan as you ease your way into the businesses or in a different role in the businesses the Knick fan club president and putting out the the excellent buckle brigade newsletter and then working for Vernon Awa. I mean just on a personal level. Not that hasn't come through but there is something about the news that he is gone. That clearly hit you hard. It did and What's really interesting and I and I mentioned this to somebody the other day to wait. You know in in life we've got there's constance that we hang onto you know especially as you get older and you know even if you don't see that constant or feel it every day it's still out there and for me you know from the time. I'm nine years old as a wrestling fan. And then getting involved in the business. The one constant has been burned gone. Yep Turns always been there whether it's you know talking about my. Espn days or joking. With the guys abroad burn Ganja and all of a sudden what it is. It's it's the old mortality thing. It's the finality of it and for me. You know I mean I look at you know. Over the past few years Billy Robinson mad dog Rashaan the crusher. I mean these guys that were mainstays in the Awa Red Bastien Ray Stevens. They're gone race. Even they're they're gone and from that era. And you know you go to Cauliflower Alley Club and you see the boxer and goes in the Harley racist of the world you know. They're they're struggling physically and mentally. And it's so it's the end of an era and for me personally. You said that it hit me hard. And it really wasn't unexpected. Because I would always talk to house vern doing well. You know he's mentally. He's not doing very well but physically. He could go another ten years. I mean that was always the you know what people were saying that there were there were close to him So when I got the news it wasn't totally unexpected. But what's happening with me? Is that every day. It's getting harder and harder and you know the reality is really setting in and you know it's it's a part of that childhood being plucked away from you know it it's that There's another piece stornoway and another guy has gone. He belongs to the ages now. So yeah it. It's hitting me a lot harder than I thought it would. And not because so much that I work with earn Ganja but because Verne Ganja was he was ninety ninety percent of my life as been somehow or another version. Guy has been involved so yeah you know whether there's a fan or is it. An employee is his or whatever it's It's a tough one because it's a very tough one when he become a VIP member one of the perks. We don't talk a lot about the back issues every week. We drop another twenty years ago back issue on our website. You can read it in. Pdf and all text format in early two thousand. It was a fascinating time. That's when the radicals jumped from w w to the WWF. You can read all the behind the scenes details as that story developed week after week. Also the launch of the xfl. What was my take on that story and the debut of the new league plus some analysis of the early ratings. Also my exclusive feature-length one on one interview with the Rock Dwayne Johnson the longest insider interview he has ever done with journalist checked out with VIP membership also my roster evaluations with depth charts for www e and e c w as the year two thousand kicked off. Plus the latest controversies behind the scenes. And W W including a cover story on how Hogan was damaging morale fascinating behind the scenes details on what was going on again contemporaneous well sourced detailed reporting on so many behind the scenes happenings in w. w. and the WWF at that time so go VIP and check out those stories right now. Pw TORCH DOT COM SLASH KGO VIP. That's PW TORCH. Dot Com slash Gobi Ip. A new back issue from the year two thousand drops on its twentieth anniversary every weekend. Have you heard over the last? Say Twenty five years since the AWA went under? Was there a stretch of time in the nineties. Where vern enjoyed a quality of life where he got to reap the rewards of the decades of hard work. I know there were financial problems despite living the high life for decades. But did you hear anything about what he did during his healthier years mentally and physically after the Awa went under you know I really didn't hear a lot and and what I did hear wasn't necessarily great. I mean only you know you mentioned the financial problems I know there was a bankruptcy situation and You know so. He kind of went under there and then as early as you know maybe ten twelve years ago he was already starting to show early signs of dementia. So I'm not so sure that you know. The verdict ever really got to enjoy the fruits of his labors. All those years i. I'm sure there was a time but I you know over the past twenty twenty five years. I don't know you know again I wasn't there. You hear the negative stuff you know so I obviously I don't know on a personal note how things were going with this family et Cetera. You hear the bad stuff year the bankruptcies you hear the you know the dementia setting in you hear about all those kinds of things. So from an outsider's perspective. I I don't know I don't ever he I don't know that he got what he let's put it this way. I don't think he he got what he learned. I think he run was entitled to a better better last couple of decades. I I will say if there's a lesson in there for for the waiver and lived as took. The summers off played tennis He he could have worked harder in earned more and he didn't and it part of that comes from being the boss and having that luxury but I will say at least. We don't look back at vern going. He worked every single day of his life. Tirelessly never did anything. Because he was thinking in my sixties that's or my seventy sixty seventies golden years and that's when I'll really the pay off mic. I think it's fair to save. Vern lived a really good life even with the stress and the disappointment of the turn that the business took in the eighties. He enjoyed life in the fifties sixties and seventies to a great degree to the point where some people like were critical of either. How infrequently was choosing to wrestle or the time he took off in the summers one of the reasons. Nick Bachman goes stuck around even though he could earn more money in the NWEA was a quality of life issue. Working for the AWA. I think Verne Kinda was onto something with that and instead of being critical of that I kind of think so people should think. Maybe he's got the right idea. A lot of people in different parts of the world certainly take more leisure time out and burn did and I think that's something that's a solid for people who feel bad that he didn't things took a turn for the worse in the sixty seventies and eighties. He he sure seemed to make sure. He got the most out of life in his twenties thirties. Forties and fifties. Oh he absolutely did and that. That's a great point. And you know you had mentioned the you know the last twenty twenty five years again. That's that's Kinda what things going to tailspin a little bit but my God back in the day. Yeah and again. I think a lot of that has to do with the celebrity and burn enjoyed every minute of air. I mean you know on on on a social circle. I mean this guy is everything I mean. He was as big. We've about this earlier as any athlete. You know in the state of Minnesota history probably and it's not hyperbole to say he was hobnobbing with the politicians and the you know the the high rollers and whoever it is so yeah burn had a hell of a Rut. He had a great life You know certainly. He lived the life of luxury He lived the life of a very very very successful Businessman and entrepreneur for a good portion of his life. And you know so. Yeah certainly I mean the early part of his retirement or his is waning years. I guess We're far better than the and and yeah I mean he was a lucky guy and you know it. It's just sad the way it turned out to your point. Oh yeah he he had some fun no doubt about it make. I say it every time it's such a pleasure having you on. I figure we could go six hours and not run out of things to talk about. You are tremendous in this format and I really appreciate you giving us more than ninety minutes of your time here and helping facilitate J. being part of the show one of ferns true contemporaries who is still around and added a dimension to the show. So thank you for all of that. I really appreciated weight and again You know thanks for having me on the end Kenny. Jay can't say enough. Good things about Kenny. My God you know. He's he's almost eighty years old and can't J. Always GonNa be Kenny. Jay and One more Go ahead I said yes. I was just nodding and an an and also again condolences to To Greg in in the guy and your daughters and everybody else and Burns GonNa be missed and Thanks for the Opportunity Idiots. Nice to be able to talk about them. Excellent thanks to our listeners for joining US certainly a little bit off the beaten path a little bit from our usual format. But we've certainly gone to Awa history and wrestling history at times with various various guests with Jerry Jarrett on talking about Memphis wrestling promoting wars in the eighties and and Randy Hales from Memphis and bill. Dundee one of our guests. When we went to the interview Friday format I enjoyed talking wrestling history. It is I feel like I know so. Little compared to just percentage wise of what there is to know about this business and being part of it in the way that I happen for so long as always fascinating to to connect some extra dots at an extra anecdote and learn a little something. Extra I do from you mic. I did from Kenny Jay. And it is yeah. It's amazing how much how much better I think I understand today than ten and twenty years ago and how much of that just came in the last few days too so anyway. I appreciate the opportunity. Yes very thank you make things to our listeners. I will sign off on that note. I did mention if somebody wants. Vip and dig into our twenty seven years of archives including previous round table. Discussions including McCarthy's appearances on the program focused radio show in the early nineteen nineties. Those were some really special shows. Make if you're still there remember that while the Carbo tribute show that we did I would point people to that wall Iverson's business partner. What a character. He was People want to this era of wrestling fascinates people in the more you learn more. You want to know the Wally Carbo tribute show on pressing. Focus is part of the people that you torch. Vip Website Archives. Just go down to the Retro Radio Shows Option on the right side bar on our members homepage and scroll down to that. We had Roger Kent Elder Russia. Jim Brown Zell George Shire and of course biggest name of all. Nick Balk Winkle as part of that discussion. It was just really fun stories and just various times that nick was in studio. I think a couple times and on the show others it was always Real Special Bach winkle on the pricing focus show too and anytime you and George and the gang got together to talk old Awa. The PHONE LINES LIT UP. So that stuff is out there and we had. Ken resnick on the show. Just a few months back earlier this year. Talking about his. Stay IN THE AWA. And he can fill in some of the some stories about that era that he was part of with the road warriors. Post Hogan Post Vern Gone. Yeah as a headline wrestler but still working for the AWA during that time. So there's a lot of resources out there. And then Bruce Mitchell and I did a real time commentary on the wrestler movie from Nineteen Seventy Four. That is in the Bruce Audio archives. We have a best Bruce Mitchell audio show option that you can choose on the menu for that different audio shows on our main page scroll down and stream or download that show we literally sat down sync up our TV's and watched the movie and just commented on things you might not notice what the the success of the movie. The acting. The different roles billy Robinson's history earns. History it's a really fun show so again for people who made it as far in this discussion about that's just a sampling of things that you can pull out an audio format to add to it. This Person Torch newsletter has a cover story that just touches a surface what Verne men but hits a lot of the high points and also my Endo territorial with excerpts that first torch talk where vern opened my eyes to how news making interview format could be and I pulled out some quotes from that in end notes this week regarding Hogan and Bruiser Brody and Vincent Man that are pretty interesting in poignant so anyway the place go for VIP S. P. W. Torch Dot com slash Kgo. Vip THAT'S P W dot com slash KGO VIP when you sign up. It's ten bucks a month. Twenty seven fifty for three months for ninety nine dollars for a year in it unlocks the deepest richest library of insider wrestling coverage in real time format. We covered it as it happened. And you can get twenty seven years of archives over well over thousand issues with I torch newsletter hundreds and hundreds of hours of audio contemporary and retro. It is an amazing sight to explore. I'm very proud of what we built. And if you've enjoyed this discussion you will find. I think endless fascination in going VIP and digging into those archives again thanks to McCarthy. Thanks to Kenny. Jay thanks to the listeners and also as I said in this torture newsletter thanks to earn Ganja the Awa his Lee his title reign in retirement. Madge drew me to the building. I was already in love with wrestling. But that just accelerated it being in that facility and getting a chance to get a taste of that era at the tail end before the transition to rockin wrestling Hulk Hogan Wrestlemainia the nationalization of wrestling to be able to get a glimpse and a taste very immersive and memorable and special taste of that era reflective of the sixties and seventies was was a really neat opportunity for me and heck thanks for Verne for. Maybe he was duped into notice. Get into but for doing that interview with me. He didn't have to do that in that first. Torch talk with me and that helped put pro wrestling torch in the torch. Talk Format on the map and yeah. I've had a whole range of memories with Verne and it was. It was just amazing this week kind of going through my mind all the different stages of how I perceive Vernon and how I experienced burn as a fan as a journalist and now looking back at his his life in his career so quite the week and quite the show and again big thanks to make Karsh and also of course sod buster any J. for their help in making this show come together until next time we'd Keller Signing Aloha Torch faithful this is Kelly wells host. Pwg talks xt every Thursday. You can hear me and My Gang Idiots Tom Style. Who share thoughts from the live tapings and torch recap limbered as well as a rotating cast of guests cover the matches and events in Inex- t live on USA network? Search torching and Apple podcasts. Or Your podcast. App to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire. Pw Torch daily cast schedule at POW torch. Daily past dot. Com Cheers Harley. Remember the days. When women's wrestling matches were relegated to the mid card dumping ground and treated like glorified intermission. You mean the era when it was only men in the top spots in the Fed's get in the biggest matches. Yeah vaguely seriously. While we might have a long way to go we really have come a long way baby. And that's why we started grit and glitter cast covering the best in the world of women's wrestling from the Horse Women of WWe to the goddesses of startup and everyone in between each Tuesday. Emily myself and our team of guest. Correspondence talk the best matches and the biggest news in women's wrestling plus interviews deep ties in discussions about everything for media representation to gear to women behind the scenes roles. Just search P W torch in the PODCAST APP of your choice to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire. Pw Torch Daycare schedule at POW. Torched cast dot com audible is offering listeners of this podcast. A free edition of Jim. Ross is under the black hat or for that matter any book title of Your Choosing in their vast collection of thousands and thousands of books. If you go to audible dot com slash wade or text weighed two five hundred dash five hundred. That's right Jim Ryan is under. The black cat. Came out just a couple of weeks ago available to you right now for free. In his new book he goes into detail that I haven't heard before there's one point pretty early in the book where he says I'd call it the dam. Flavors steamboat trilogy. And now I was trying to get punch holes to line up in the stupid paper on my stupid desk. I wanted to be on the frontlines not behind a desk. Go check out the new Jim. Ross memoir of his time in. Wwe with some great stories from years and years ago and more recently. That's under the black hat at audible DOT COM SLASH. P W torch now. It's not just pro wrestling books and it's not just books. Audible is much more than audiobooks. They have podcast guided wellness programs theatrical performance comedy. An exclusive audible originals. You won't find anywhere else. There are thousands of titles. In fact if you listen to everything audible. You'd be listening for more than three centuries to catch up. Of course you could dial up your narration speed and maybe cut it down to a century and a half anyway audible helps people get more stories and information through the gift of found time that allows people to listen while commuting cooking exercising gardening or relaxing at home. A recent study found that twenty seven percent of adults say. They haven't read a single book in the past year. Up from nineteen percent in two thousand eleven lack of time being the main reason. So why not listen to your books and then you can you tell your friends. How many books you read this year. One of the non wrestling titles. I'm listening to right now as catch and kill by Ronan Farrow about Harvey Weinstein situation and It it's a fascinating. Look behind the scenes at power and corruption and denial within a news organization and the frustration that he had with NBC News. Trying to get this story out. It's a well told story. It's fascinating and kind of chilling also. I'm listening to Alfred Hitchcock. Biography I've been watching some old Alfred Hitchcock movies in recent weeks as I've had more time at home in less time away from home and I wanted to learn more about him and the movies he made. Whatever interest to you this month Audibles got a book that will let you do a deep dive into it or just be entertained. An escape so again go to audible dot com slash wade or text weighed two five hundred dash five hundred every month members. 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Awa wrestling Verne Ganja Verne Verne Wayne Kenny vern Ganja WWF Wade Keller VIP Minnesota Vince McMahon Minneapolis Buster Jay Steve Austin Vernon Wally Awa Chris Vanua Las Vegas Nick Balk Winkle
WKPWP - Keller Interview Classic w/"The Patriot" Del Wilkes: (6-11-15) Memories of watching Dusty Rhodes, stories from days in the AWA, more

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

00:00 sec | 5 months ago

WKPWP - Keller Interview Classic w/"The Patriot" Del Wilkes: (6-11-15) Memories of watching Dusty Rhodes, stories from days in the AWA, more

"Now pw torture and spreaker bring you the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast. It's time for this week's interview. Classic where Wade killer interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers. Five years ago this month, the opportunity to interview the Patriot del Wilkes who wants headlined in in Your House Pay per view against Bret Hart and also was in the Awa Global Wrestling Federation on ESPN as trooper I talked about his memories, watching Dusty Rhodes stories from his days in the Awa Global WCW all Japan and the. Most famously as the Patriot with live callers and email topics. This originally aired live with callers on June eleventh two thousand fifteen. Hope you enjoy it here, we go. Welcome to the W. Torch. Live tasked I. Am Way Keller. Is Thursday June eleven, two, thousand fifteen, and it is a now very significant day in the history of the professional wrestling industry. It is the day that we lost dusty Rhodes's virtual Bradley Reynolds Junior. Details are not. Real well known right now, but apparently he had a bad fall in his house or fell and. was still awaiting details, but it happened this morning. So most people have heard this these days with some media being what it is, and all the websites and wwe dot com headlining at, but certainly my best wishes go out to everybody who were. Family members dusty, especially cody and Dustin being the most prominent of those his sons who are active in wrestling and also the many friends in the many people who lives. He touched whether they were veterans appears or young wrestlers who we mentor to tutored in recent years while working mostly behind the scenes in wwe. I just recorded a seventy minute primer. On Dusty Rhodes is career with a torch senior columnist Bruce Mitchell. I am two minutes late getting this, you'll started because we're just wrapping that up and I. It's just a start we're going to do. I'm sure a couple more hours talking about some key aspects of dusty Rhodes it feels so strange talking about him in past tense. His he was a controversial figure. And had there were some good and bad aspects to to his contributions and. To the wrestling industry. But man was he something special I mean just absolutely a special performer, a brilliant wrestling mind. There are I mean you know Pieta Fall. He's had falling out with some people. Jim Crockett junior went even contribute to his book with a comment. But! There's other people who swear by him. in his loyalty. A magnum. Ta Terry Allen talked about the loyalty that he exhibited after his car accident. I mean I. Just I can't even begin to talk about in the time that we have just in the introduction here of the program what dusty Rhodes meant to this industry. We've talked a lot several weeks ago about Ganja. And had him ranked as one of the most influential. Very very near the top of the most influential people of the television wrestling era, the nineteen fifties on and in some categories by some metrics unmatched. Dusty Rhodes is right there. Right there in terms of the duration of time, we had Randy Hales on the program last night met this wrestling legend. He was a legend. Baby is not the right description, but a mainstay with all due respect. Ready listens shows. He knows what it means. But ready was around many rest Memphis, wrestling legends and was around Jerry Lawler as much as just about anybody, as a fan as a colleague as a business partner. He talked about Jerry being one of the longest running mainstays on television in terms of collecting a paycheck and being on air in a significant major territory dusty Rhodes. From his early days in Awa Dick Murdoch through being a booker for Jim Crockett for or headlining Florida championship, wrestling and mid Atlantic wrestling and then. That being on TBS as a big star booking Jim Crockett promotions then that second phase that was a blessing, polka-dot era, a little span, booking TNA, and then working in ww developmental so many chapters to his career hugely hugely hugely influential. Careers and Yeah, I just. There's so much to say about dusty and we'll be saying it. On the Bruce Mitch Lotto show for VIP members. You can hear the seventy minutes bruce. Coming up later today that I recorded this afternoon and I know I barely spoke. Bruce talked for seventy minutes almost straight and I took notes. Follow up questions. I wanted to ask, but I didn't want. Enter preceding Duffy's career up close and in person followed. It read about it studied it. Talk to influential people about it over the decades, and it's a great audio, and if you WANNA learn about this industry, one way to learn about this industry is by learning about dusty, Rhodes and what he did to succeed with the body that he had the background that he had and what he did. Strategically the politics played. He's he's got. He's Rub shoulders with I mean appear like ric flair. And he saw Jim Barnett and Vincent McMahon's senior and Rub shoulders with them and worked with them, and then was around this junior and a lot of different. Relationships with Vincent Junior as a rival, a fierce competitor. Somebody who worked for him? It was humbled by him and and then somebody who. Ended up, leading, doing his own thing for awhile, and then ended up back working in developmental. There's so much learn about this wrestling industry through through following just the careers of certain people, and if you're interested in the last thirty five forty years of wrestling. Dusty Rhodes is one of those people that. If you study the path you took and the people he worked with and the booking philosophy and the lessons learned some hard lessons learned You learn a ton about the wrestling industry and Bruce Mitchell, and I will continue to go through that the the memory is being shared and the kind words. Being, said on social media, twitter and facebook today. Really is a testament to what dusty meant to this industry. All right I'm going to give beers now and. Again introduce. The show this is. Live cast raw color, commentator era and Today I'm pleased to add to our list of first time. Guests on the show a long list of diverse. Backgrounds and enrolls in the wrestling, industry and That is the Patriot del. Wilkes is the guest on today's program Adele I appreciate you holding on as I, talked about Dusty Rhodes there I assume in that you heard the news and I wanted to speak a little bit to that before bringing you on the program, but I appreciate your taking time to be on the program today. Well I. Appreciate you having Me Wade and You should have taken time at the beginning of the show to talk about destiny, because of what a legendary figure I got involved in pro wrestling I became a pro wrestler. Because of just do a lot of ways. I grew up in Columbia. South, Carolina And as a younger kid watched mid Atlantic championship wrestling with Bob Coddle. Sell dusty there in later on as a teenager. Interrupt my team. Years so that TBS. Greg interviews with Tony, Shivani and I would go to the township auditorium. Every opportunity I got to see Gusty not the greatest in the rain, but he didn't have to be mad. He could talk you into a building and absolutely one of the greatest and most. People in our business and glad I got to be around. During my time in WCW, very fortunate, really that as a kid and a young teenager. Teenage years that a lot of the guys that I watched on TV. I later got to know once I got into the business and guys like destiny. Mohammed Daniel, Vernon time, yeah, and in in so many guys like that so very fortunate, but you have very sad to hear about the passing of dusty today. I'm. Second, they'll what it was about dusty that. That was so appealing and marketing and drew money at through your Lens through the Lens of Wrestling Fan. Seeing him on television, and perhaps how he influenced you as a wrestler, what I mean dusty people saw him later on. If they were younger haven't watched a lot of footage, or maybe there's just certain select footage. They seen of him I'm not sure that the how the X. factor that charisma that it factor there's very few people in this industry who had it like dusty Rhodes, and so many people have said bluntly. He had to overcome that physical appearance. You know that it was an asset at times the common man. I I was GONNA. Call stick, but it really wasn't it. It felt authentic. He was dusty, wrote in his book about giving away all these expensive suits he had because he. All his expensive shoes because he didn't, he wore. T shirts and jeans and cowboy boots, or you went barefoot. There was something really authentic about dusty talk about what stood out about dusty. The maybe the first time that you remember seeing him or following. Well. It was a lot of the things you just mentioned number one. It was that. It was that charisma it was that ability on the microphone just to say things. Just I mean talking to you now I'm getting. Talking about it that you know once, he got on the MIC and you're exactly right. He's getting. Great in there wasn't a lot of athletic ability in the rain and a lot of movement in the rain and a lot of variation in the rain, but it didn't have to be. I wanted to see dusty. Rhodes, it's the Township Auditorium in Columbia South Carolina on Tuesday night because of what I saw on TV when he would do when he got on the microphone, and also that that every man deal about it and I mean he he was us. He was one of us, and he talked with that list He. Had A little bit of that swagger swagger about him in just a way, said things in the way phrase things and. Just that unbelievable charisma was for drew me to that character into that wrestler they. Make put down my money to go watch him live. It was because of just that that slayer and that ability had to draw you killing. I'm. One of the reasons, the program today and I am pleased to have you on. You think you've got a lot that you can talk about from your career. You manage to go to a lot of places I remember. The trooper and Awa shot photos at ringside in Rochester Minnesota. During that stretch of time I. I think that everybody listening to the probably everybody some very some very new fans. Have some idea of the career you had but I bet a lot of people don't know. Several key chapters in your career and I know that you've got a store. You WanNa. Tell and we're going to take phone calls we're going to. We got some email questions for you I want to get to I've got questions for you, but I wanNA early on the show. Here gives you a chance to talk also about a project that that you are really passionate about and that people can help make happen, and that is a movie. About you and the journey that you've been on can. Can you please talk about that a little bit? How it came about the story that you WanNa tell and why you think this is something that that that our listeners would be interested in helping helping make happen. Well, it really came out of nowhere for me. When I got out of the business, it was due to an injury, and physically I was just able to continue and when I got out wait, I mean I. Literally got out I disconnected from the business and just moved on to the next chapter in my life, and it's just been in the last few years recently that I just started doing some things making appearances in in things like that again and really out of nowhere sometime last year. Michael Elliott. Who worked with elbow production sent me a message I think we have facebook and asked me if I would be interested in allowing him and the elbow productions to a movie or document documentary on my career, not only not wrestling career, but my football background as well I played football at the university, of south, Carolina and I met Michael at an appearance in Winston Salem last year and We talked about it more. And and then. Earlier this year. We really took the next step and got this thing going. And I it's it's not only about my wrestling career, but it's about my life. It goes from from birth You know you're in Columbia. South Carolina to my parents and even including my grandparents and their influence on my life in college football, pro wrestling life after pro wrestling what I'm doing today and a lot of the pitfalls I went through, so it's it's all encompassing and the reason it's important to media's number one. I think it's a it's a story that people here that that no matter who you are, you're at in life. that if you're not careful, you know bad things can happen. Make bad choices. Bad things can happen to you, but it's also a story of redemption and come back and also to wrestling fans or very important in this. In my opinion, I I played college, football and high level, had a very brief NFL career career in pro wrestling and I've been around sports, fans and entertainment hands for most of my life, and there's nothing like pro wrestling fans their loyalty. And, just they're. Put. They give to that industry without them. They would have never been any of us and no need for any of us, and it's an opportunity for them to do also be a part of this story, and as we complete this story, so we're awful excited about it. Michael's done a great job. Elbow productions done a great job in really really excited about wants this. Project is. Finished giving it out to the wrestling fans and letting them take a look at it and see firsthand my entire life story. What are the really cool parts of being the members getting to relive history through the pages of the pro wrestling torch newsletter back issues we have pro wrestling torch newsletter dating back to the late one, thousand, nine hundred, as we put a new back issue up from twenty years ago that week, and so when you go, VIP, you instantly have access over fifteen hundred back issues and a new PDF along with an all text version. If it's easier to read that on your phone goes up every weekend, and the latest issues include a cover story from the June tenth two thousand issue. I'm Colbert's returned WCW and whether he's a solution to what was ailing WCW, at the time, also my call him titled, Vince. Russo is from outer space. And Bruce Mitchell's column still timely today, unfortunately of racist gimmicks and poverty pimps was the title. That's issue number six. Oh six the week before that issue number six five from June. Third features a cover story that talks about how there could be a shakeup in the wrestling industry with WCW for sale and C W, having uncertain future and also Bruce Mitchell spoofing vince. Russo titled how I became World Champion. If! We go back another week to the May twenty seventh two thousand issue, it had detailed coverage of the Judgment Day two thousand pay per view, including my review and staff table reviews of the Rock, triple H, sixty minute, iron, man match, and also the final installment of the Lance Storm Torch talk with his thoughts on various w colleagues the week before that the May Twentieth, two thousand issue issue number six zero three features, a cover story on ric flair's collapsed in the ring during nitro part three of the Land Storm Torch Talk With this explanation for why he decided to quit cw. Our coverage of CW. Heaven the per view and more, and then the week before that the May thirteenth issue features a cover story on the changing landscape and pro wrestling with the WB after moving from USA TNN and potential shift of W also covers sidebar story on the death of W. Fan after a hotel party and WCW slam coverage and the week before that our coverage from the May six number six. 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It alone is worth the membership price for so many of our members check out details on everything else. It comes with the be happy membership including daily Podcast, their VP exclusive and shows like this with the ads plugs removed. Go to PW TORCH DOT COM slash. Go VIP for full details. That's w torch dot com slash. KGO VIP prices are as low as eight dollars and twenty five cents a month on average. If you subscribe for a year or check us out for a month for nine dollars, ninety nine cents. Opening up vowed of anybody opening up about life, everybody's had ups and downs. They've made good choices. They make bad choices. If you've lived, you've done. Both what did you have any hesitation in wanting to open up about some of the things I know you before about prescription pills. I we appeal says that you've opened up about some cocaine. Use How does it? Did you have any hesitation going. Yeah, I want to go on camera I want to talk about this or I'm kind of sensing from your introduction. They're talking about this project. You think that the lessons you've learned can actually be useful to the wrestling. Fans at you speak so highly of and that. If you tell your life story that you can help, some people maybe take different turns at certain folks on the road. Well I. Certainly think that I can and I've had the opportunity over the years to share my story with You know whether it's at schools churches. you know speaking engagements in in a number of settings and it I once I was able to come through the other side of those dark times in tough times and low points in my life. I certainly wasn't willing to talk about it. As a matter of fact, I was rather ashamed about it, and it really bothered me to even go to University of South. Carolina football game because I was afraid that people are gonNA. Look at me and go. Hey, that's the guy you know. He's an all American here at South Carolina and you know what ended up. Yeah he was. He was a professional wrestler. He's a superstar in business and you know what? We're doing and it was one of my former coaches. Hey, look man. You gotta get over that. You have got to get over that your old us there. Is messed up now. You know they're talking to split the just messed up your old us. Get over it and take this and do something positive with it, and that's certainly what we tried to over the course you know the last few years here is used in a positive way, and hopefully if it's just one person or a couple to prevent them from doing some of the things that I did some of the decisions that I make. Now as Vita saying correct. There's a kickstarter campaign that people can contribute to help. Make this. Help. Make this documentary possible. Yes, they can't really coming down the homestretch with this project in Michael in Gaza, production, but especially Michael. Just really it's not what Michael Does for women I. It's a Labor of love for him. The Guy has a full time job, and he just does this as his world for pro wrestling and He's done some other projects and he does great work. Those guys do and He puts a lot of his own money into the US and he told me the other day. He said his wife has threatened to kill him if he puts another nickel of their money into this, and so what we've got is, we have set up a kickstarter. Program that they can go to. When I say fans and they can be a part of this. They can help us as we finish off this project and. They cannot go to kickstart kickstarter. Dot Com and just put him bill. Will so they all the Patriot Wilkes? They can go to my facebook page there. The Patriot Wilkes there's also will facebook page they can go to, but they can go to kickstarter, and they can contribute and help us. HAS WE FINISH UP This project? And then we're going to be able to get it out to them where they can see it nothing. You be very pleased with it grew happy with. Excellent, so? If people are. If you want to send them to one website in particular, that's best. The the website. Where can they find? What what website do you think is the best place to go to the big point for them to go with the kickstarter dot com, and then just starts for. Dell will delve Patriot wills. Gotcha and that's D. E. L. W. I l. k. e. s.. Man Behind the mask. Forty. Forty two days to go in this campaign and I believe the goal is thirty five hundred dollars and a thousand over thousand dollars from pledge, so we got about. Forty two days to go to reach that goal and help make this possible. Let's let's start talking about your journey Adele starting with the how you got into professional wrestling, and maybe the the lead up to becoming the trooper in the Awa I I grew up in Minneapolis. Minneapolis Saint Paul area. I became a wrestling fan in the late nineteen seventies because of the Awa I followed it. As a fan, and then as I started the newsletter that is published in nineteen, eighty seven. Followed it as a profession I was there as photographer front row for the beginning of your career as a trooper handing out the badges handing out tickets to opponents. I thought when I saw you early on through my is this guy has a chance to be a star. You had a great look I love your accent in your voice. I know that in some Vincent Man at times. It's like you can't have an accent or else. It won't work nationally. I thought you had one of the greatest I mean. What are the greatest accidents for professional wrestler regional dialect sound of anybody I just thought it absolutely worked, and in that Rochester Minnesota those ESPN TV tapings There was something about you early on I thought this guy can be a star I know. I want to talk about the w eight Joepat. Esino saw the same thing and ended up making the centerpiece of local championship. The Global? Wrestling Federation excuse me early on there, and then you also had a run reshot right to the top in the WWF so lot of chapters talk about, but can we start with Awa, and then after that I wanna let the callers on hold? No, we're going to go to you after we talk about the Awa and then we got some email questions, and we'll kind of work our way through your career. The very beginning I started out here in Columbia. Lillian Ellison had a wrestling school I paid my money and went through to school there and just for local shows with her she bought him one hundred Daniel to work one of her shows, and while he was working for furniture Khan and we just come down south saw he still had his home in Charlotte and wanted to come down and work the show for Moolah and Watt. Who saw me in? Basically I guess just. Just took a liking and that was my link. Burn and working in the W. I and It was their idea to come up with the trooper character, and I thought personally myself along with that southern accent that I thought it was a great combination You know a Lotta Times in movies in a highway patrolman just think smoking, bandit, movies, and things like that, but that highway patrolman that cop does have a southern accent. I couldn't have gotten rid of it. Anyway. It's always been. And it wasn't going anywhere, but that was where I I I got my I got fraternity working for Ver- and in Greg India way, and of course at that time they have also walk through their Pat Patterson was up there so I was able to be around some some guys that certainly hit some experience. It had a wealth of knowledge in been superstores, individuals, and they've been on the backside of their career at that point, but just being able to be around him was was was invaluable. We're about to go to another commercial break. Why are you listening to commercial breaks? 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Vern Ganja died recently. We've talked a lot about vern with a variety of guests, both here on the live cast, and on the VIP audio side of things What was your experience with them? That was knows near the end of of. Verne's run as a promoter as somebody who worked with wrestlers you were. Among a handful of the last wrestlers who've earn had a chance to have any influence on. I mean you and Jam and Mitch Snow Wayne Blew my enough of a handful of guys who were around at that time who whose real first experience working for legendary promoter. Was Gone and that was kind of the end of of being inflexible the business. What are your memories of of working with him? I know a lot of people say and I got to experience it firsthand that there was a temperamental aspect of her at that point, maybe frustration with the way the industry was going, but I'm curious from from a perspective of you as a young wrestler, just getting a start. What kind of influence did vern have on you? In terms of leading forward in your career? Well it was, it was great to be there, and he had confidence in facing, and they gave me my first big break and and you're. You're exactly right. There was a there was a frustration with would verne on never solve the temperamental side of it. but I did in a lot of conversations with Verne and even with Greg but you would says that frustration that they felt like that you know. Their territory had been robbed of all the talent and they wanted to do things the. Old Fashioned Way and more unwilling in some ways you know things were changing in the wrestling industry, and at that time and in some ways I think we're willing or unwilling to let go the way they had always done things in the way they so things be done continued to be done that whites and It was somewhat sad because I had a good idea of who vern wars, and what he meant to our business, and it was somewhat to see that company, just really dying on the vine me, and it was just you know withering up, but yet still they had the confidence. Maybe give me a person to give me a break. The put me on nationwide TV so I will always be forever grateful and it was like they were always waiting for that next big. Deal come along that was going to. You know I know for for months and months and months. To tell about how Viacom was gonNA, come in and put a lot of money into the company and just. You know juvenile Awa none of those things never happened, so it was sad to see. Go out that way, because literally at one time it was one of the greatest territories in this business in an awful lot of great talent. Come out of the territory. You to some young you with some veterans you talked about mcdaniel being among them. All sorts of some young guys, the late DJ Peterson who I thought was another guy who just had real potential Paul. Diamond of bad company I did you. Did you overlap with Paul Heyman at all or I'm trying to think of? I. Know Poll I. Guess it already been through their. Jay Dj and our last taking champions the w. but I did I did work with boardroom and NS and in DJ Of course the biscuit was there were with the death of ox Baker was around being as a manager not is a is a restaurant as a performer, but as a manager, so it was no masterclass wasn't master blaster he managed was the guy's name with a big leather armband on one side. It was I exactly right? Yeah! Very cool, so what led you your departure from the Awa? Basically the Awa Ceasing to book you. 'cause they went out of business I think. Were you there to the very? Close to the very in matter of fact, I may have been a right to the bitter end of it. I had a chance to I had a chance to go to Japan right near the end of the of the W I and that was my first trip going to Japan so I think when I got back. I think they had for all practical purposes. Just doors on the place. And you ended up going. You do mainly take team which Aki Fulton or did you do singles work for All Japan? Also well. The first time I went in I went. He's the trooper and that was my very first trip up to work for. Bob Japan later went back a few years later as the Patriot and then later down, the road tagged up. Jackie. Okay Yup. So how did you feel ready to go to Japan? Did because from an experience standpoint. Awa wasn't running a fulltime schedule, but you've been in business for a few years at that point. When you went to Japan was that. Did you feel like Hey I'm ready for this and then when you got there. Did Your Opinion Change Do you think that you would advanced enough to? Feel like you could step into I. Mean just all Japan high high standards for guys and you were going in there as as somebody who didn't have twelve years under your belt at that point. How how did you acclimate yourself to that atmosphere? I don't think I did acclimate myself to When I got the opportunity to go through Jimmy. Suzuki I I was all about it because you know going to Japan and working for Bob was a big deal. Know that time in which they were highly respected in their work was unbelievable, and I thought was ready, but once I got there. I realized quite bay I in over my head brother. I have not because I did not. You're definitely right. I think I. did not have that experience behind me where I could work in the territory night after night after night. Because by the time I broken, business territories were gone. They were dying. They were just very few of them left, and they were not here in the Carolina, so it was sporadic work for for Verne. Accuse you taking hearing their spot. Show here in there so I I didn't get that consistency of working several times a week, or not after night, and once I got to. To, all, Japan my first tour over there in. Your your in thirty minutes finish would seventy five kick outs and I just. Overwhelming? Nowhere near ready for that. Tentacle boss, who was you got to be talk? You were in the ring with in Japan and and just maybe try to bring us into the ring with you in terms of the what was going through your mind as somebody who yeah maybe felt in over your head, a little bit against some of these hard hitting case of Kabashi an all time great. Well I I do remember telling. A friend of mine when I got back I was only three week tour said I'm done. I said I'll never go back there and working. I can assure you that I really I. Did I just felt that bad about? not experienced my performance. I expected the myself, but what reality was. Because you're talking about in mounting the greatest lineup of talent you know property who've been around when you've got guys like you. Could buy, Massawa towle Collado. On the American side, you got Gordie Williams Hanson. I mean that's just phenomenal talent and. I just I wasn't there yet and I wasn't ready for that that I tour. It was extremely evident. But did you get did that make you? Did you feel that atmosphere? You were able to get better quicker or do you think it was almost throwing too much at you quickly in? It may be actually like you kinda hinted that. Made you disenchanted or discouraged? No didn't make me. I was discouraged about that particular tour, and about how performance for that tour, but not about the business I'm you. I knew what was ahead of me. I knew I wasn't. GonNa have an opportunity. To work night after night in unless I got hired. WCW got hired by the WWF as it was called at the time, and of course that didn't happen right away either, but it made me determined in every opportunity I did get. To take the most out of it in and make the most of it in in just literally where guys like why who enright students who, around a lot at that time and just trying to drain, everything not could fund in which ought to be like to learn as much as i. can't because you didn't have that background, you know working in those territories like that, so I was going to have to learn it quicker pace if I wanted to be able to dance, you know we're in the business. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Join Me Jason Powell hosting three weekly pro wrestling Boone podcast each week you'll hear the latest news in analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other wrestling media, members plus pro wrestling boom podcast features long-form interviews with notable names in the wrestling industry, subscribing to in stitcher downcast, and all your favorite secondary APPS, or visit us directly at. POW BOOM DOT com once again. That's PW. Dot Com. was there anybody in Japan? Who is especially helpful and bringing you along, or or were you kind of just on your own? No. I think for the most part I was on my own I, think one thing that helped me is You know always. With always when I was younger, a pretty decent athlete, and had some athletic ability I really I. Just took a combination of trying to learn from everybody. another American that was that was there with us. Was Dory funk junior, so you know a lot of nights before the show would start getting into the ring and working with doing just from simple things like a lock up to ahead lot to take takeover to an auto drag. Just working little things like that. You know two hours before the doors open. In before the show started and then getting the rain, not after night with Gordy and Williams and Manson. Kawada Misawa good boss. You don't learn to be not business. While, yeah, that's that's fantastic. listed names. Dell is just amazing. To talk about all right if you're just joining us at del Wilkes most prominently as the Patriot during a run with the WWF in the nineteen nineties is by guest on today's pw torch live cast. We're going to get your phone calls next. If you want to get in line on the phone banks, the phone number is six, four, six, seven, two, one, nine, eight, six, four, six, seven, two, one, nine, eight, and if If you can't call us lie, but are listening live and want to contribute an email, a topic or question for del Wilkes the Patriot the email addresses POW torch life cast at g mail dot com the Peterlee torch life is brought to you everyday by audible, a leading provider of spoken audio information and entertainment listen to audiobooks whenever and wherever you want. Get a free book when you sign up for a free trial at. At, audible trial dot com slash throw wrestling torch. That is audible. Try At the club. You can't write down the phone number. You can get it easily at p. w torch dot com slash direct TV that's P W torch dot com slash direct TV to get the phone number to call and details on the wrestling shows that you can see when you switch to Directtv back to the torch life cast. Our guest is del. Del Wilkes the Patriot we've got caller on hold and we're GONNA shift to that now. If you want to get in line on the phone banks, we'll try to get to your call. The number is six, four, six, seven, two, one, nine, eight, two, eight. That's six four six seven to nine. Excuse me, six, four, six, seven, two, one, nine, eight, two eight. Let's go to our first caller. this is VIP members Scott. Let's bring him on board. Here's Scott calling today. What do you got for Wilkes? Hey wait. How are you guys to that? We're doing great. Terrific. I've just a couple of questions about earlier in your career. I wanted to start with something we'd was talking about which was when you were the centerpiece of global global wrestling in the early nineties, and being on ESPN, and I remember telling with a big deal when it was coming when she'll see no I wanted to know what it was like. At that time Texas after world, class had gone at just hearing what it was like. Global. Well, it was a very exciting time because it was an upstart company new company. again in some ways it was a lot like the way that we heard that there was this big investor that was going to millions of dollars into it, and we're going to take on the On The end of Your Debussy W., WWF and there was an infusion of young talent there a Lotta great young talent there, and it was also mixed with a lot of veteran guys so and we were in the building and great. Then you the sport a Taurean, so it was exciting. It was very exciting again. We all nationwide TV THE ESPN and we go out every young. Gal every Friday and Friday. and Saturday night shows, and then you could fly back home on Sunday and watch shows yourself during that week, Monday through Friday when they would come on ESPN, so it was very there. You kind of felt like we're really a really. A part of something really had an opportunity to do big things you know. Unfortunately, it never been. Are you talking about vern, having this Great Vision Del for? Vision maybe. Isn't it but great hope with Viacom? We're GONNA. Get this influx of money. We're can take us the next level. It never came through. Joepat Asena went through some similar things to with with with global on ESPN. We talk about the roller coaster. Ride that you went on as a centerpiece of that company and and working with. In the vision and hopes and dreams. He had of of making that a major brand that would would survive times in the last a long time. Well. As we were waiting to launch the WF they had contacted me about being a part of it. They didn't tell me what capacity they wanted to use me, but are how they want to use me, but it was again it was. He's great hopes. If there was this man from, I think it was Nigeria or somewhere in Africa, that had a lot of money, and he was looking to don't millions of dollars in this upstart wrestling company, and we were GonNA challenge them stand toe to toe with the WWF and Debussy W and take him on so. It was million dollars still was number. Fifty million dollars was the number that I think Joe was putting out there. Yeah I think you're exactly right, and and it was just own patient. Okay, when just kind of happen once it's going to happen, but we were constantly being assured that it would happen I. Think as we all know it never did. That kind of money and it was someone else did invested money in it, and it was nowhere near the level that we originally had been told that it was going to be, but still there was excitement there and I've got to give Joe created, I mean he worked very hard for it as a matter of fact that the. I think it was the first night. We would ever go out and and and work and shoot TV They had to bring an ambulance in Joe was sell over behind his desk and we thought he'd had a heart attack and was going to die and I just i. just think some ingestion stress. It got doing and but he was okay, but still even though those things that we heard we're gonNA happened never happened. They were still out there that we could do special things to be. and. It was a lot of fun. It was really not career started really taking off, so it was shot. It was a good time. I think it was the first company that was operated promoted and created with what now would be called by some people the IWC. Community or the Internet fan now back then it was pre internet. It was about the sheets. The newsletters Joe marketed the Global Wrestling Federation through winner in interviews with me. I did a mid week edition he was. It was such a huge story when he announced that he was launching this company, and they brought in like Sean Wallman Lightning Kid who was. Would be called today an internet darling, but he was a favorite of the sheets. He got so much good publicity through the torch with the great work that he was doing and Jerry Lynn was doing. It really was this brand. New Vision from scratch. I know talking to Joe on the phone a lot in the lead up to the lodge. How excited he was about creating an alternate brand of wrestling, compared to what WWF and WCW. We're producing at that time. And how excited he was in the way he talked about you Dell and how how much he thought he was he that he had stolen somebody from. Out from under Vincent, man or W W like I've got this guy I can build around him. He really believed in you any thought. He had a really nice strong lineup in a supporting crew I know that his enthusiasm for that project, especially with you as one of the leading figures and a young buff, Bagwell. Marcus Bagwell He was He was excited about this project, and that had to be somewhat contagious and I think you know how invested. He wasn't when he collapsed backstage in the first taping. It's really and it was contagious. I mean I could not wait for Friday mornings to come where I could go to Columbia. Metropolitan Airport and hop up a also. You know ended up in Dallas Texas in the Sport Taurean that afternoon, a around seven o'clock in and it was, it was just such excitement, and we really felt like that we were on the verge of doing something special, and got Joe was working closely with billy. is they were planning things and trying to build things they're in. Acts the mass superstar Yup absolutely correct. And when I went out for the very first TV taping I took my gear. I thought I was working the trooper and you know. I was completely caught off guard when the idea was presented to me. The day of the very first TV taking about the the Patriot character in doing that and so, but you know that was totally unexpected to me, but you know and I'm I've always been grateful for the confidence placed in me and putting me in that spot I'll be very short lived thing. It did do very good things for my career very good. Thanks to my career. Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling. PODCASTS will come join me out for over in the progress paradise at Pino Torch Vip, as we BOSC on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and chose from around the world. Be a US, Japan Europe or Mexico. There's always a place residence passed in the Paradise to, and we've done fun. Historical shows such as the we love ligers series, celebrating glorious career of Jewish thunder like. I was there when shows where guests will join me to talk about classic bent that they were in attendance for we love variety, and you can expect lots of it at the progress Paradise detangled Peter. Roof Torch VIP subscription information on a list of all VIP benefits is available at Peterborough Torch, VIP Info Dot, com, and yes, all AP Alcazar compatible with popular podcast APPs on iphone and android devices, or you can stream them directly from Ad Free Vip Mobile Site C in the paradise. Scott you're still you're still on on. Hold here. Anything you want to add or any follow up question. We'll definitely, and they'll thank you so much. M We to insight because I. Remember those days when you guys were launching global, and just like you said so many great wanted talented work and come through that terrorist through global like Wall Been Jerry Lynn Booker T. Bradshaw, so many guys who did work out. Or Gilbert praise yeah. Great talent, and just like you, said I, it was very interesting time Question about career to they'll I will about your experiences in WCW in? Was that like ninety four ish when you were in there working with Stars and Stripes doing great work, and it's wanted any great experiences. Anything interesting. They could share any tidbits. Well winning their again. It was that AWA connection They also had taken a big role w I in the, and I knew from aws as they were doing looking back committee Dan. Greg Ganja was. One of the book on the Committee. I don't think they had several Brooklyn Committees at that point in time, but so it was that. Connection that landed me there and I initially went in as a singles wrestler, but personally it'd be ideal team Marcus and I. Still. Matter of fact I was talking to Marcus Today on the phone. We found out that dusty past and still remain. The very close friend. Brings are close to Marcus in communicate quite a bit, but It was a Lotta Fun. I, it was an awful lot of I was here when they built hoping in you know the big grand from from Benson and signing hosing golden savage and some other Taliban from WWF, so it was. Exciting concept being there and being a part of that. Scott anything else. Last thing asking. Thank you so much for the opportunity to talk to Dell. I've always enjoyed his work and always enjoy everything out of TWA TORTURE VIP member, but my last question they'll when you came into the WWF and nineteen ninety seven in that summer. I remember just you know some great matches with heart, and I just wanted to with before your injury. What was the plan like I? Remember you being planted in a match survivor series and wonder what their plans for the future before your injuries. Thanks for your time, guys I'll be listening I really appreciate it and del thank for just everything I appreciate it. Thanks for the. Thanks for the call. Well I think initially Vince. Wasn't that thrilled about a masked man I know for a fact in conversations with the wasn't convinced. A mass character could get over in the states at that time. And I think he initially had all you. No intentions of unmasking league, but as anywhere else I'd worked. It was a popular character, and it got over good with the people, and got very well with the people and trust me right into. I into a a situation where I was working at Brent in working with Brett, you know. Events night after night, on the Monday night shows it was just unfortunate that my body. It's at particular time was just failing and. I just the things that I counted on to make a living for me for all those years was now completely Saturday and I was physically unable to continue. Was it mostly BICEP issues, or were there other things that we're actually more contributing to your body failing if There was a combination I had. Blown my knee out and I've been working with an extremely heavy knee brace on for a couple of years and and I'd also torn my tricep on numerous occasions, and so it was a combination of both of those just finally it was. Just physically couldn't go. I was going. I have you talked about steroid usage that during your time, and if that was something you participated in and how you felt that either helped or hurt if you did take them help to hurt your career in terms of your your performance, your physique, but also perhaps contributing to any injuries well at that time, and even earlier It was a major contributor in progress when. You. Know Vince always had the reputation to in a company of big guys, and at that particular time I mean it was very very prevalent in the industry. And you know when you're making a living night after night in front of thousands of people and millions on TV and you're doing so without a shirt and everybody else around news you know popped up two hundred ninety pounds and with about. About three percent body, fat than compete, and be competitive, gotTa do the thing, but they do take a toll on your body, and as they did with mine. Your your muscles grow to the point that you're. Kim Can't support them. And you start having torn muscles and things like that so they one way do help your career, but in the other way could be very detrimental to your career. It's interesting. You phrase it that way. 'cause I've said that all along when you know that I've used that word in. Your muscles can do things that you're tendons. Your ligaments your bones. You can't support you know. It's like bending over to lift a heavy box. You know the parts of your body can get it off the ground, but you get to that next level, and also you hurt your lower back and when your muscles can do something that you're your tenants can't. That's where things kind of pop? Well, and that's exactly what happened happened to me with my tricep very first time I ripped it and it was the ten and literally just rip off the bone. It rolled up the back of my arm and deduct describe it like an old fashioned window shade. It just rolled up to the top of your tricep and the explanation he gave me was. Your muscles are too big for attendance to support him in the catch him to the bone, and that's what happens. Every Sunday night catch wrestling night in America on W. Torch Daily Cass Dot com hosted by me. PW columnist, Greg, parks each week. Welcome cohorts from the torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails you can listen live most weeks beginning at eight, pm Eastern on Sunday nights with a wwe or impacts pay per view. We go on the air at the. The conclusion of that paper view you can listen live, but of course the full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs visit, PW Torch Daily cast dot com, and click the livestream link to find the next scheduled live show link search pw torch in Apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe wrestling night in America every Sunday pw torch. DAILY TASKS DOT COM All right. Let's go to our next caller. Area code four one to go ahead and state your name and the city you're calling from. Yeah! This is Brent calling from Pittsburgh. Pennsylvania. It Bryant if you can get a direct direct Mike and not on Speaker Bluetooth, I would help. We're having trouble hearing. You give you a couple more seconds here. Otherwise we'll put you on hold and we'll We'll come back to you if you need if you need a second to get a better connection. Brent. Tight tried to go to connection. We'll try again. Let's go next to Eric Code Eight six to its please state your name and where you're calling from. Harlan from Newark New Jersey. Calendar different you again. What have you got for us today? I have a couple questions for you here. Del Quick question number. One important you, sir. Where you have slated to win the WWe idol from Bret Hart. In your title match with him in September nineteen, ninety seven, I have no knowledge of any plans that they had for me to take the belt from from. some you know to answer your question not that I'm aware of and and if they didn't make me aware. o-. Question number two for us Is there anyone in the business that you wish you had. Received the opportunities to work with. That you regret that you didn't. Wow! That is a good question because I had the opportunity to work with With, so many of the greats I mean from what who in in Ray Stevens and and Dory. Funk Stan. Hansen and Ric flair and Anderson. I can't think of anybody right now. That that I could. Could you know could say that? I wished I would have had a chance to work with because I feel like I worked with some of the greatest guys in history of this business. I'll go ahead you question. AM final question. I know you mentioned earlier that you disconnected yourself from the business. Once you left that. But if you have seen any current products that all, can you think of anybody? Who you might say, remind you of yourself. That wrestling today. Well I can't Ralph Top I. Think if anyone that reminded me of myself, I think we're all unique in our own special way, and we don't want to be like anybody else. We're going to be who we are in that business and but I. I don't watch a lot of the product today. It's an extremely changed product I do occasionally watch but obviously I like Johnson then respect what he does his work, ethic and I like watching Roman reigns I like him as well, but I can't name any warned. That reminds me of Dale. They are who they are. You bring up. John Cena I think from a physique, a look, a presentation the Patriot Gimmick. I mean John. CENA's saluting. Tribute to the troops waving American. Flag feuding through so I think there is. That your your character so to speak your persona. As the Patriot and the role that you had in the WB off in the nineties is. I'm not saying that Johnson would not have happened without you, but I do think in a way. You were a precursor in that division that had for you is a similar issue that he needed to scratch as a promoter. It's a certain slot that he always wanted to have somebody for, and I think that the closest comparison is John Cena. Well now that you say that I would agree and and I do remember the conversation we had, and I can't remember the city we were in, but it was for our Monday night. Show role when I was working for Vince. And he called a meeting with all the talent. Maybe announcement that we're getting ready to change the business. We're going to go to the lines, but used to be good. We'll be back. What was babble revered and we're just really going to push the envelope and I think at that time. They felt like there really wasn't a place for that. Clean Cut. Just quite me good guy, but I think proven that there is a place in today's industry for that. Well. There certainly was a place for stone. Cold Steve Austin the Rock deacs because it was such a sharp turn away from what had been the convention in wrestling for so long, and there was some pre you got you got to be. You got to witness it for a while. Del some pretty bad. Wrestling to some bad angles, there was some bad things going on and W W in the years leading up to to that that time when you talk about being a pivotal meeting with McMahon, were Vince just kind of decided to go against all his better instincts, and try something completely new, but like everything things go kind of full circle, and at once the attitude era was over there. They went public they they're on USA. Network the number one cable network they WANNA. Get sponsors the attitude era. You can't repeat it you. You can't recreate stone cold There's nobody who's you know you talk about everybody being unique. You can't recreate the rocks Dunkel. Steve Steve Austin at the X. without being a Pale limitation. So you kind of play with you? Play the game that you can with talent that you have and I think John. Cena came along and actually Kinda Vince to go back to his instincts, the the instincts that he had to push you initially that he then went against when business was tough when W W was taken to them. But. Then it did go full circle back to again the style that I think promoting the most you know look at what he did with you. It's not all that different than than Lex, Luger in the lex express to. That flag waving Red White Blue Patriotic Gimmick. Is something he really liked doing, and you were one of the line of of people. Had you come around? Ten years later might have been John Cena well. Interesting nothing there's always probably going to be a place for that for that flag-waving. Doug Theorem American, Levin, patriotic type character. I go always be a place for that. I really do and it's. As far back as I can remember, there's been a place for someone in some capacity. You back to Sargent Slaughter you know in in. In in hex, Jim Duggan and so I think there'll always be a place for for like that. Yep Kyle I appreciate the call very much. Oh. Thank you with Oh and by the way they'll. To answer to answer your question about where the where the infamous. We're GONNA. Push beyond below me. Raw place that was in Richmond Virginia. You've got a much better than I do. Some kind. Of America but I didn't know that. They played it after while Kyla noses. Wrestling is a regular caller on the program skyline. Let's. Let's go back to four one two and go back to Pittsburgh. Is D say was Brent. Wait. A great I appreciate it home back Brad. What have you got looks today. I was just a big fan of yours. They'll growing up watching you and global and. Luckily enough. I got to see Wrestle Bret Hart on a raw in Pittsburgh live with the awesome. And I. I just wanted to ask. was there any Any I don't know if you've heard anything about When you were in WCW teaming up with like maybe Hulk Hogan when he came in you guys were, both you know Kinda like the American American made wave flag-waving kind of wrestlers decided maybe there. If there was any kind of an inclination of you guys seeming up at all. No, none that I'm aware of again. you know when they won't hold him in? That was such a big move. Such a big talk about new. He didn't need to team up with anybody. He was coding. And and you know he could stand alone on his own and so I'm not aware of any of that talk and He certainly didn't need it. At that time just! You know a big big big deal. for for those in the wrestling business in. But no, I don't think there was any any did every day. I was always curious I. Never found out who who the the dark patriot. Do you REP building? I was always That was always cool feud. I thought when I was a kid growing up who was the dark patriot. Well I never found out who he would I tried and tried drive. He wasn't they never would tell me, but no. It was I'm just kidding. It was doug. Smoking Oh? That's funny yeah. In Eddie Eddie was another guy that had an influence on the way when we're doing things there. In the? Early, is well. Great Let's go to the mailbox. Interesting questions here first of all this comes from the member. Joe East Coast. Jay is one of my favorite wrestling. Memories as a kid was turning on ESPN one afternoon, discovering that the Gw was replacing the US w. a. on the afternoon block. What was the initial? His initial experience like of joining being the original face of the company was always a plan from to win both the TV and north. American heavyweight championship tournaments in Wendy, realize that promotion was not going to have the talent resources behind it. That were originally thought I think we covered some of that del, but maybe some of the specifics title tournaments would be interesting stories to tell. Well I don't think initially going into it That was their plan to do that. Because initially like I said, I flew out there for the first show. Total thinking that. I was GonNa work as the trooper. Until literally just our support started. They wanted me to do in the idea that they had. And I think the reaction that we got night. Pretty much made up the mind of Joe and building that. They wanted to do the direction. They wanted to take care of I. think that probably solidify button their nine that night, because it was a tremendous reaction to a character that no one ever seen but I I. I didn't leave because of any financial struggles company with having I mean was it was obvious if they were, but I left because they had an opportunity to go back to Japan and again, Baba and That was an opportunity salt that I would never have them and then go into greater detail about that, but I had an opportunity to go back to work for him, and I wanted to take advantage of that. Up Next. This is rich in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh caller, he says what would del say is an element of tag team wrestling in particular that he thinks could be better used with a modern era wrestlers watch a lot of wrestling today, but you had. You had a lot of different takings over the years starting with DJ Peterson. Of Bagwell. Jackie Fulton talking about some of the taking partners you had, and and maybe the differences in how taking wrestling was was promoted and featured into various stops that you may during your career. To me, it's really all, but died out I. mean too much at least based on what I see in in in what's nowadays with what little bit I watched for limited ewing that I do that. It's really just an afterthought that that's not what. Is really pushed in, and it's just sort of a second tier. Event but I was very fortunate I, mean to take an impact team. Riceland excited I mean when you got four dollars or potentially six guys in during one ham a lot going on, there's a lot of movement. There's a lot of action. a lot of drama I. It can be just wonderful and I know place. was that more an example of that? They need Japan when I work. Any one of the tools that we did every year was dedicated to nothing but tag team wrestling fully prey on our team. And in some of the greatest matches. Obviously, it's to my life tag team matches. One that POPs off. The top of my head was Doug Furnas. And then across it against Kadarshian issue, and a matter of fact, one matches year that year, and I was very fortunate to team. That's great guys. From ideal. Against Info! Johnny as and Even some six men matches working from even got the tag team with Andrea and so Yes sure did I worked in a couple of six man's with Andrei I to a couple of six. Yeah. Grim several occasions. At any any under story, any anecdotes any personal observation. What was it like being around working with them and planning out a match with them? When he did whatever I wanted to do, that was the bottom line. Is. Only Yes, there's no there's no negotiation bigger. Laundry wants to. Did we go home when Andre wants to go home and we do what Andre wants to do, but it was interesting to see him. and it was somewhat say. was near the end of his career to try to get around to try to survive in the country. It's not built for me. That are his. his hype, his white and things in this country built for me of that size, and did you see the struggles that he had and the pain that he was dealing with and into watching literally just play cards would give the building a couple of hours before Delta, and he would sit and play cards for two hours great wine, and then go out and work in a six men Matt's, so it was. It was really a phenomenal thing to see. Andrei. Unfortunately. In the end of his career. How did people react around him? In Japan I mean it just seems like people must have. Looked at him as this larger than life, the word celebrities not even a word for what he meant at that point, having been around as long as he had been, but how did in Japan how did people just body language facial expressions? Treat him in. React to them when they saw. Well this is the way I would see them. We got. Andrei is Andrei with get off the bus and walk crowd. It was like it was not villa. Honestly they were said there in a stand. They're almost. Afraid in fear in all, and only had to do was just heading one way maybe to riderless, and they would start screaming and yelling backup. He didn't even have to make a move for me. Just maybe glance at them and. but I even more impressive in that. Stan Hansen crowded Japanese wrestling fan. Get was targeted Risley. I almost I at the saint. Paul Civic Center when you say W. Champion I remember as a remember almost getting hit by Cowbell I. Mean You know today you know you watch? It's like you've got gotTa have like eight feet on either side of you of of open space with offense to stage or above the crowd. There's the barrier their security. There's this real divide between fans and wrestlers and Stan Hansen and Terry Funk, where the two guys who had no regard for. That didn't even exist I mean the roadways in Awa. When they first took off in Minneapolis and Saint Paul actually in the Awa. A Kid I would run up to him, pat him on the shoulders or walk into the ring, and and it was like you really got a sense of their size in their intimidation. And the way that Hawkins animal just. To the ring I thought was so cool. It'd be able to just be right up against almost cool that said. Stan Hansen. You didn't want to get close to. Because you're right he he would come out do that that yelling that I can even imitate here without over modulating and breaking our our speakers, but. That big yell. He'd do swing the Cowbell and he he. He invented Parker by the way 'cause when Stan he couldn't see so stan could see the ring and the lights, and that was it, so he just darted for the ring like he just went straight from the entrance to the ring because he couldn't see more than two feet front of his face, other than blurry lights so. So you had to get out of his way, not because he was trying to hurt you, he didn't know you were there, and it was also part of his stick, so yes, standing entrance, going straight from the entrance to the crowd, regardless of where there's barriers chairs, fans of security or little kids was pretty special. So glad you brought that up. That is you don't get that. They don't want the greatest since I've ever seen. An I've got it. On a videotape, somewhere in in in storage somewhere, and or in Chiba, Japan and the House lights go down. The spotlight comes on staying in Iraq it words in so many auditoriums, assuming we work Japan, you literally had to fight your lady. During the masses just surrounded you and somebody leads to not stands cowboy hat off, and it was on, and I'm telling. Telling you. He beat up everybody from there until he walked through that gate that was living an arm. Ritchie him if they reach out and testing slapped punched him. He kicked him beat him with a cow bell, and it was the greatest turns out. They were saying. If anybody could find that footage, it would be well worth it. It's it's just wonderful. That's great. Have, you subscribed to the POW torch, daily cast yet free daily podcast with shows throughout the week, dedicated to ring of honor, all elite wrestling impact, wrestling major league, wrestling and x, T and Emma talk for pro wrestling fans, that's Monday through Friday and on Saturdays checkout the deep dive with Rich Fan, where he examines a single topic in depth and then Sunday nights it's wrestling night in America. With Greg Parks you can listen live or download the show later at W. Torch, daily cast dot com. Just click on the. Link he takes your calls talking about wrestling's biggest events either ones that just took place or preview in shows that are right around the corner, and on Sundays when wwe runs pay per views, he's live right after the pay per view edible you torch, daily cast, dot, com, reviewing the show and taking your calls. That's the POW Torch Delete Castle lineup. Just search pw torch in Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your wrestling podcasts, or visit our homepage to download or stream the shows or find out more information is torch daily cast dot com. Richard also asked if you can speak at elaborate a little more johnny teaming with him in Japan and also your time Jackie Fulton Johnny obviously went on to be John, Laura. Follow Jim Ross is being charged talent relations for wwe had kind of a parody of himself on air. A few years back. Talk about Johnny Ason if as as a peer as a peer of his in a wrestler fellow wrestler. If you also saw him someday, getting into that side of things, because maybe there was some handwriting on the wall even back then. I'll. Around John even when we worked with him in Japan. I mean Janis solid in the rain, but he wasn't spectacular, but Johnny had the mind to create to come up with good finishes to come up with good spots. could put together little bits agency, so we had the mind to do that and so looking back on it now. I. Don't find it surprising to be one on to do what he did. he also had the ability in and I don't mean that negative way. They had the ability to get to know the right people into. Up to the right people and it was, it was no secret that Baba had had a you know A. I guess a special place in her heart for Johnny. Affinity for. You. and. There's nothing wrong with that and I, and and use it to your benefit. Go ahead and do it more more power to Ya and Working with Jackie man like God, just a consummate professional ego at the door goes out and does what's best for the company, and what's best for the match and just solid, solid, solid, good goodfellow. Since recessed. I young. They came to me about Baba came to me about. Not New with somebody since tag team wrestling, what's over there and You Know Jackie name out to them. And they came up with the idea of the Yugo something that looked a lot like the patriot and the Yup. Enjoy my time Jackie Jackie like I said just a consummate professional. Did you ever cross Tummy Rogers up? Jackie Fulton his brother Bobby. Fulton. Teamed with Tommy Rogers and the fantastic. I did I I worked a lot of shows with the fantastic in the state on Puerto, Rico and Japan was really really sad to hear that about Tommy's passing Tommy was always one of the most upbeat guys one of the most positive guys again. He True Professional. He went out every night. Regardless of injury pain level. Work any work hard and. Very sad to hear of Tommy's passing, but Mitch and a lot of these guys like I've mentioned Jackie Fulton. Stand hats, and these guys are part of this project. We're doing stands going to be out of it. As a part of Jackie's apart of bobbies, a part of it and are even more guys that are a part of it also guys that I played football with the University of South Carolina some of my former teammates and coaches, including George Rogers. Who won the nineteen eighty nine trophy? He was my. One of my teammates South Carolina, it's a really special deal to not only include the wrestling part of it, but have a heisman trophy winner participating this project and be a part of it. Also family members so You know we'll just excited about what we've got going. Michael put together and. Really looking forward to the finished product, and again incur all the rest and fans. GO TO STALL DOT COM for you can also be a part of his project and help us as we near the famous line and also won't kickstarter. When you go, you can find out not only. Did you contribute in help? But you also get back for contributing and helping, and there's a long list of prizes and. Recognition that you'd be received for your helping projects. Encouraging each and every one of your to check out kickstarter and help us out is when you're as we get near the finish line with this look for. You you've been so generous with your time and and I think the the stories that you can tell and the way that you tell them and really what you're conveying here to people who didn't know the scope in span of your experience in your career, you didn't have a thirty year career, but the shoulders. You rubbed against Andrei Stan Hanson. Co Bashi. On it on on Verne Ganja Eric Bischoff it really is. There's so much in your career that. T to build a documentary around, and we haven't gotten into it and we're going to save it for the documentary. Obviously, there's a lot more to talk about, but just the the stuff that you're talking about on the football side on the personal side the lessons you learned I mean i. just think there is a tremendous story to tell there and I. Do want to endorse this project and what people know if you appreciate, the time is giving us on today's program. Go to kickstarter entered del Wilkes kickstarter dot com enter dough. Wilkes show some appreciation if you want good products that are. Are Not just produced by wwe through that Lens and you've got to have a career like Dell's. Who's been around so many fascinating people in such a story to tell support projects like this? Just a few dollars can make a difference. We've got so many listeners out there. It doesn't take a lot of you to make this. Cool thing happened and has has to be a part of it and know that you were part of making it. Happen is something that is really cool. In two thousand fifteen that we can do with this kickstarter type campaign so kickstarter dot com enter del Wilkes. The about two or three more questions for a wrap up or do you have to go because I? Don't WanNA. Put you in a position here if you've got run. For a couple of more than interview, I've gotTA. Do Seven got minutes? Tell. Tell Him. Tell him to wait. We're not done yet. No, I appreciate that. Let's. Let's hit a couple more quickly because there's a couple of topics here Richard a third question I met this early. You're not the most core question, but I think a fascinating topic and that is how difficult was it to go for being a non masked wrestler to amass one in terms of communicating in connecting with fans and selling motions I I'm fascinated by that because there's very few jobs and. And occupations in the world, where your face is covered up, but communicating and bonding with people is so important. You are somebody who I thought did a really good job with that I think Glenn Jacobs is unmatched in that regard as Cain with the body language. But I thought you did a really good job with having a mask on about that. Being proposed in what the adjustment was like for you. The first, the biggest adjustment was my vision, not my ability to inside the rain. When when you're facing one way in, you've gotta take a hard right and hit the roadster. You're right or hit the road studio left. It really does block your peripheral vision, and I had to get used to that and then working misfortune tornado, there was no air conditioning and having to wear a mask. It was made a walls. It seemed like was awfully awfully tough, but it does. It creates who you've really gotta sell things with your body. You gotta be more enthusiastic with your arms, and your hands, and just show physios them and I I give great. Credit for for sort of working with me on that. Just you really becomes with your body that other things other guys don't because that can be with their face I built with my face and had to do it with my body. I've been on. This is on the Steve Austin podcast. been on a few times one. We're talking about how important it is to show fire with body language like you're talking about in Greg Ganja was the guy we talked about you know I I, Greg. He got picked on a little bit at times. You know he's the you know. The Skinny Guy who who is a son of a promoter and people gave him a hard. Greg was a great really good wrestling might maybe a great wrestling mind and it's in that category so many people look back and give him credit now. Four teaching them about that. Nobody showed better fire after heartache than Greg Anya and nobody gave him more earnest believable baby face. Just I'm trying to think of the right adjective, but just that for baby-faced. Promo Been Greg I can see how I definitely can see how he had some influence on you because I could see where the character you portrayed would be something that he had. He'd really be able to tap into and kind of point you in the right direction on how to connect. The one that taught me that I. mean literally spending an awful lot of time with me. You know In the Locker Room, you show me how to fire up and and over Danja Rating. Overselling in the you know I. I would beat my chest in. My hands and it was better than I did today and running. He was very a very good point. Very good point the head rubbing. He'd rub his head like. Shake off the sweat like it's just there's certain lost arts and wrestling these days, and that hot tag and showing excitement. There's not a lot of guys who do that anymore and yeah, the whole body language thing also this question from David, he says, although only around for a limited time. The Patriot was a pivotal figure in the feud which led up to the Montreal screwed up. What are Dell starts on that historic events and how did Dell like working with Bret Hart? Who at the time was the hottest healing in the company? I enjoyed working with because in my opinion. Working with breath are matching were more like Japanese style than anybody were within the states, it was snubbed. It was it was good and he couldn't see anything, and it was just strictly business You know there wasn't any funny spots or any comedy spots and I like working like that so I enjoyed working with Brett in that sense. Sense but also at that same time I could sit the frustration in breadth that you know with what was going on between him and Sean and it was really starting to manifest itself in talking to Britain spending time with him, and just listening to him as he would done I I'm not gonNA. Use The word complain, but just just sorta used to say how many board. furstration with the way things are going so. I I wasn't there that particular night I had actually missed the show because of illness, but or maybe had already been on already. Retired at that point but I think I was supposed to be there. If memory serves me correct, not I got sick, and I couldn't make it to mighty silly for me. I think it was. See Black. Maybe but. Not Memories Soggy on some of this stuff. Don't quote me on that. great I know we're. We're just running out of time. Lasting. Sneak in your music ended up getting used for Kurt Angle was that music created for you or was that already kind of in house that Johnson had created just waiting for somebody to utilize it. Well now that I don't know we could be truthfully Co. completely honest with it was the music that they presented the. They asked me knocking saw and I thought it perfect with the character I liked it. So I was I was very happy with it in eleven. Don't world. This has been fantastic exceeded my lofty expectations. You've been a guest. Again, you've been so many places did so much in a relatively short span of time I. Hope this documentary. Is Lives up to this interview ends up. Coming to fruition I look forward to watching it if this gets done. Is it going to get done no matter what the kickstarter just makes it better. Pain vital to this project getting done in the first place. We're GONNA. We've got all the confidence that it's GonNa get done I. I have all confidence in the world and facing the wrestling Fan Just in a few short days you've already got were thousand dollars. We've got forty two days ago. If we can raise the thousand dollars in three days, and we can certainly late twenty, five hundred more in the next forty two days, so I have no doubt, but it's GonNa. Be Finished. You get done and I certainly do appreciate you allowing me to come on the show and into promote it and talk about my. My career and I WANNA. Thank all the fans that have already helped him contributed into. We'll we certainly appreciate you. Thank you so much and we hope he'll. We hope to have you back on the show. When the documentary comes out, we'd love to talk about the making of it and elaborate on some of an in plug it too, so Thank you so much generous time I know you gotta go. I apologize for eating up all the lag time between this interview and your next one, but genuinely sincere. Thanks, kickstarter DOT, com enter del Wilkes, Patriot. Be Part of making something pretty special. Happen here, Thank you do. You Bet that still works to Patriot the trooper as I knew him and Awa, days. And it is kickstarter. Dot Com del Wilkes Patriot. And it is absolutely If you've listened to the start to finish I, think you know there's a Lotta great stories to tell here in a lot of chapters. We didn't even get into in Indo works with life so Check out. If you're willing to do, so I know he'd love to see. The contributed number in that dollar figure. Click up so that we can create You can be part of creating A. A pretty cool documentary on somebody who, in a like I said a relatively short span of time went to a lot of places. Rebels with a lot of people have some great stories to tell a personal story to tell that does it for me four today we dedicate this show to the memory and career of the great dusty. Rhodes and we'll be talking a lot more about him. I'm going to shift from this to. Editing and posting that a seventy minutes of Bruce Lotto Bruce Mitchell I can't say enough positive about his knowledge of wrestling history, and if you are not listening to Bruce, Mitchell. Dusty Rhodes you missing out? adverse Mitchell going on twenty five years as a senior columnist for pro wrestling torch a major contributor every single week for two hours. You ever take of audio contributions. He'll be on tomorrow on the live cast. You can get A. Obviously, Bruce will be talking. About dusty tomorrow, and if you have any questions, or you just want to talk about dusty, Rhodes Bruce Mitchell is a person to do it with. They'll be on the air live tomorrow. Friday June twelfth, starting at seven Eastern. It'll be on the air for about sixty minutes. Check that out and contribute live. Thank you everybody for joining us today. Very very much enjoyed my conversation with del Wilkes somebody I've wanted for a long time. And when I saw that this kickstarter project was going gear and that there was a A documentary in the works I very much. was excited about this and and like I said his. his This interview in the stories take tell exceeded expectations, so thank you, everybody and until tomorrow and Bruce Mitchell and Travis Bryant of East Coast Cast, dot, com take over the airwaves here at W. 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A Tribute To Gene

Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard

1:34:03 hr | 2 years ago

A Tribute To Gene

"Wrestle. Well. That's not Avery. There's no box of gaming. Don't deal in rumor. There. I will there. I hear you. Hey, it's comments ops. And you're listening to something to wrestle with from Tokyo. I know that's not exactly what you expected to hear today. We're calling an audible we had originally planned to do Saturday nights main event watch a long from hulk HOGAN and King Kong Bundy all the way back in nineteen ninety eight and then we put the poll up, and you guys were so fired up about real rumble ninety nine I said, I will just do that one next week instead. And then something tragic happened we lost being gene, Oakland, and you guys wanted semaine content today, and that's what we're going to bring to you. But unfortunately, I'm in Tokyo, and Bruce is in France, would Texas and he's going to be in friends went again this weekend with Aaron Bischoff and half a dozen other. Or maybe two dozen other WWE hall of famers, you gotta check them out at the bay brook mall. Fiterman sports, it's Saturday January fifth so tomorrow, if you're listening to this on Friday, but tend to be AUSSIE Bushwacker nasty, boys. Demolition even our main man Eric Bischoff and rumored innuendo. Bruce is that Hoppy talk land might be there. This the first time hockey talk man, and Eric Bischoff have been in the same place. Michele been running down on eighty three weeks. We'll should be interesting to say, the least, and we are all going to be there. It's a small place. So that should be an awful lot of fun and awful explosive to say the least. Yeah, I'm looking forward to the report, some sure social media will blow up on that. And hopefully, you're doing what I'm doing. And you're watching wrestle kingdom today. I know that we've been promoting a here on fighting are in into Mike Weber at the Tokyo dome, and he is all excited about this show. And I'm sure the reviews that people are seeing right now tell the story, but our our story continues. You know, before we get into main, gene? Let's tell you what we're going to be coming soon. January nineteenth Colorado Springs. I can't believe we're finally making our way there, but I'm looking forward to that one. And then just a week later. We're going to be in San Diego at the world famous madhouse comedy club. That's an afternoon show. And then of course, on Royal rumble Sunday were infant stand up live looking forward to that one for a long time. We'll put the band back together and March we're probably going to drip out a couple of February shows, stay tuned there. But March I it'll be Bruce Richard Eric Bischoff and myself to that in Connecticut, we've never been in Connecticut before and this is at the Mohegan sun, if you can have fun there, you're dead. You can get tickets for all of the shows, Bruce, Richard dot com. And don't forget the solo tour for brisk, Richard Australia. Also on sale now he'll be there in late March the twenty second twenty third and twenty four which is Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. So you gotta be on top of the law vents, man. They're sneaking up on its Bruce pitcher dot com, and Bruce one of the things I wanted to, you know, do on this show take maybe a little bit of a different approach because sometimes I like to cross examine the, and that's not really what today is gonna be about. Just want sell. -brate the life and times of Beijing, Oakland, you know, one of the things I was thinking about its high. We're going to cover the good the bad the ugly with being, gene. There is no bad. There is no, yeah. I can't think of any ugly, gene. Yeah. I can't think of any bad, you know, obviously had some some health issues. But he's one of those rare guys I never heard anybody say bad word about now. You're not going to either. And gene Oakland was he was a friend. He was colleague, and it was educational to get to be around, gene all those years. And I thoroughly enjoyed every single second of it. Well, let's start from the beginning. Gene was born Eugene Arthur Oakland on December nineteenth nineteen forty two in South Dakota of all places, and he grew up he described himself as a semi wrestling fan. He would watch it when it came on late night in the fifties. Of course, he's watching Awa up there. And then eventually when he goes to college he he goes to the university of Nebraska where the guy who would go on to be the baron baron. Von Raschke, any good early main, gene Raslan stories, you can remember is like back in that day. Everybody had a favorite or a moment or memory? I mean, even now I guess I can point to lob events it'd be like that's what I was wrestling fan. You know, I guess back in in the day during that time, especially in that area. It was all about Vern ganja was all about the A and growing up in that area. If you didn't know who earn ganja was he was more popular than the pope in many ways. So it was that was the big deal. Then in that was that was the guy. That's gene grew up on. He didn't just jump right in the wrestling business that which I think a lot of people assume that that was always the plan, but it really wasn't he graduates college and goes into radio, which makes sense. I mean, he had one hell of a voice and he's winding up at Kailai L Omaha. Nebraska, eventually moves to Minneapolis continues. In radio has about a nine year run there. He also starts eventually sailing for a television station in Minneapolis and television sales. That's that's not an easy sell as -burse. Now. It isn't. But at the same time when you you are salesman. Okay. So, you know. Gene, Oakland was the epitome of salesman. He was constantly selling which made him such great pitch, man. And that's why he was such a good interviewer because he knew what points to hit to get people interested in the product and make them get off their sofa come down and see the live events. Well, and so that's sort sorta how this all happened. You know, feel like we told a similar story on eighty three weeks there Michelle for he talked about how the announcer for the Awa was arrested for DUI couldn't make a shot. And then they asked the guy in and sales who had a good look come hold this microphone, and that's how air Bischoff got into wrestling and main gene, oddly enough has some similar story where the way is doing a live show every Saturday night and has gone. Mario Neil the announcer for the one day. He's ill. I can't come to work. So they asked Jean to come in and host the w that day, and gene has said he didn't really know much about wrestling as far as what to call the moon news, the holds and Vern told him to just sit down and call what you see and jeans. That's probably the best vice he'd ever got. The story of how this is really just a happy accident and maintain wads on the wrestling business as incredible as not an it's funny because that story is so similar a lot of the greats. When you go back, and you find out how they all again. I'll go back to Paul Bausch. When Paul Bosch for started his broadcasting career. He was listening to the commentators and the commentators were calling the wrong homes and Paul started to tell them what the correct holds were in the guy just handed him a microphone in this case. Gene was the voice. Didn't know what the hell he was gonna do. Because you you feel that. Okay. I need to know something about it in Vern gave him the best advice that he could give him just call. What you see call? What's in front of you and described the action, and you can either do it or you can't. One of the things I've found fascinating in my research. Is that gene admitted that one of the things he really struggled with was trying to predict what was going to happen. Any felt like that was part of his job was to sort of an -ticipant the next major move the next break in the action whatever, but he says that the real key to his success was to figure out how stop doing that. And instead just call something once a happened is that something that you guys talked about a lot. And and that's man WB. That's the key to every great play by play guy. Don't don't anticipate. And that's the problem with commentators in the wrestling business that no the finish. Or no the story line because they're trying to lead you if all you have to do is call what's in front of you and call what's on your monitor at the time. Then you're not gonna screw up. If it doesn't happen. You don't call it. But if you make something happen that isn't there? It comes across as untrue. And that's the best vice anybody can ever give you. No, not about it. What do you know of Verne's relationship with Jane? I mean, it does feel like, you know, we've heard various reports the years about how did they sort of bitter? When one of his guys that he really made a name moves on certainly that's going to be the way things wind up for Verne, and Jean do you think that they reconciled? How would you categorize the relationship will? They did reconcile over the years when Verne was inducted into the hall of fame and everything with the WWF at the time. I know that they had reconciled there, and they were friendly, but it's business and sometimes you have to make a business decision and move on with Verne gone. You're even with him or against him. And I don't know that he they certainly weren't friends at at the time, but they got over it, and you move on with your life in Vern from what I understand could be difficult to work with. But it was a perfectionist, and you can't argue with the success that he had in the heyday. Yeah. And even back, then Jane was a bit of an entrepreneur, you know, even when he was on the end of UA wasn't his only gig. He was also doing an ad agency. And continuing salesmanship that salesmanship we know was going to serve him. Well as wrestling fans because we're all right here with the hotline flex he really made famous and one of the things that before I even think about the hotline plug always think about as majoring in the back. I'm doing the stand-up interviews, and that's where he got the nickname main, gene when he was doing that in the Awa with Jesse Ventura and Jesse is explaining gene he was up on partying with Tom petty and Heartbreakers and then ask Gina pain who Tom petty was and allegedly Jane said something like he's famous race car driver. Right. Isn't piecing with Richard petty? And immediately Jesse says that was mean Jean, and what do you know, manging stuck? And I don't know that. Gene, really loved the name. But it certainly served its purpose mean decide Mangena people know who that is they they certainly do and it worked really well for gene all those years. So I think the Jesse really did him a favor by giving him that moniker mean Jean and overall when you look at the person that probably got that over the credit has to go to haul Cogan because hulk is the one that that made it universal in me, gene. Let me tell you something brother. And when people do interviews, and they start to go into whatever impersonation they wanna do womb to you. Something mean Jean? It's so easy. It rolls off the tongue and it made a hell of a career for gene, Oakland. It's crazy when you think about the amount of talent that role through the W A because you know, I'm sitting here thinking he worked with he being manging pronounced Powell he worked with HOGAN. And the way he works with Bobby Heenan in the w he worked with Jesse Ventura, the w I didn't think about all the other talent, you know, that I mean RIC flair learned how to wrestle in the W A from Verne. They learned also taught Ricky steamboat there's so many just phenomenal all-time world class talents who came through the w that eventually really made their lot in life somewhere else. But the two hours associate with Jane, I don't know why the sense is whole Kokin and Bobby Heenan both of them may in the Awa. How would you categorize the Bobby then manging relationship? Well, the first of all they were business that they? Worked together, and they were friends outside outside of wrestling going all the way back to Minneapolis, Bobby, gene, we're very close friends. And then in later years, they both lived outside of Tampa, Florida, and they were very close, their wives were closer families were close, and it was a friendship just garnered over many years being in the same business and being able to share the same ups and downs of the wrestling business. It's so crazy anything about to buy this. How long has gone careers were. And you think about Awa there at the same time WB after their same time w there at the same time all the four years of their career aren't together. Then not insane. Yeah. It really is. It's crazy especially in the wrestling business that you're able to have that that long of run at the same people. So let's get to you know, while we all probably are listening to this and remember maintain in jumps to the WB app. And gene said that until about mid eighty three when Vince McMahon I came to him told him about this vision that he had talked Jean about how cable TV was becoming a thing. And how they could go national Jean said that men's never mentioned anything about being global as the WWF. What later go onto the obviously, I mean, they make more money internationally than domestically these days. I'm sure, but one of the things that I'm always found fascinating as sort of this old school mentality that existed back, then of course, now with the benefit of hindsight, we not how up, but gene dismissed this idea. When Vince I lays out the vision because he doesn't understand how this could possibly work logistically, and because he had a full-time gig doing the ad ANC. He wasn't willing to go away is other biz. Business. And I wanted to try to make a run at this opportunity with them. So it's cut the deal that allows Jean to work three days every three weeks and any got some urging from his whole France, Pat, Patterson and hall, HOGAN and eventually made the jump, but obviously money played a major role in decision as well. So not only could Vince offering more money, but that's the the best schedule ever in the history of wrestling as not three days every three weeks with the idea behind. It was a recorded television every three day. I mean every three weeks so during the time that would be the time that gene would cut all of the individual interviews with the talent for the individual markets for the next three weeks. Now, it was a grueling three days during that time that they eventually would have to take on the road and expand the number of days because the number of live events expanded. So is jeans role. Expanded in the events expanded the demand also came on the had to work a whole hell of a lot more, but working three days every three weeks is a hell of a hell of a proposition. No doubt about it. And he jumps at the chance. And he accepts that offer in December of nineteen eighty three. And here's sort of what I was learning to earlier the big sitdown comes or gene has to let the gun is now that he's leaving. And he's not telling burn Greg's, there's well and Greg's pretty fired up about it and says hacking leave us now, we need you. We've taking care of you for thirteen years and allegedly Jane replies. I've taken care of you. And this guy comes to me with an offer that substantially better, and I don't hire hearing account or offers here and allegedly intentions around high. And Greg said something like, well, if it's so damn good job. So gene did. And that was it. He was out this conversation happened a lot in the end of the era when Vince was taken over to not. Yawn. That's did. I know that a lot of guys didn't want. It didn't wanna give earn their notice because it didn't feel he deserved. And they felt that Vernon kind of taking advantage over the years and he liked Bill. Watts. A lot of times they've worked the most. Well, liked guys to work for regardless. It was it was standard, and you give your notice, and you work out your notice on the other side. I think a lot of talent blame Vince McMahon saying that Vince paid him extra vents told him not to fulfill their dates, but in all my years. No in Vince McMahon. I've never heard him ever say to anybody don't fulfill your dates and don't honor your obligations to the to the other end because he would expect it from them on the other side. So I think that a lot of guys just use that as an excuse to jump ship and get out of there of gene was a businessman in, gene. Did it the right way by going to sitting down with Verne saying, hey, I'm gonna leave? Here's my notice. Let's talk about the next time. We hear about Ryan, gene. And invents. It's nineteen eighty four. And obviously the WB app is blowing up now they're on track to make wrestlemainia phenomenon. Rockin wrestling and MTV. I mean, it's really really hidden. The toys are common. It's been the vision is becoming reality. And during a visit to Minneapolis Vince, McMahon visits manging than agency and using the phone on jeans desk makes an offer to Verne to buy out the allegedly for ten million dollars, which would be five hundred thousand dollars a year for five years to both Vern and Greg which is not I mean, which means he's not gonna front load all the money. But he's offering a chance to collaborate not by you out necessary. We're going to work together. And I'll give you some towns Theron, and I'll give you some exposure on national TV, but you can work with me rather than against me and allegedly, gene. Sees learn blow up on the phone to the point of has to pull the receiver white from his head, and he can hear Vern yelling through the headsets things like blow it out your ass. And it'll be a cold day in hell before ever do anything like that. And if you're only your father knew what you were doing right now, I mean, lots of lots of resentment contempt and people are not happy about the move the events as doing. Here's my question, though. When I read this I wondered why would he do that in front of Jean give an answer for that events better than anybody? Why would you make an offer like that in front of Jane to sort a undercut any sort of hurt feelings or where two motions or whatever? The gene might have about leaving thirteen year employer or. Wow. Mccollum front of Jane? Well, first of all you have a witness there. So you have a witness to him making an offer to buy out in an offer to work with them and to collaborate so anything that burns says or anybody else wants to come back and say that then stood this Vince did that it was malicious on his part. He's got a witness right there that can say, no, you know, what he called the guy he made an offer to them to work together and try and work this thing out. So that's why he's got someone to tell that story. When he finally comes into the starts as a commentator. I doing color commentary, and it should placing Pat Patterson doesn't last very long, he realizes shortcomings. And then he starts doing the interviews. And before we get into, you know, the rest of the run there do wanna talk about Pat Patterson as a color commentator feels like that isn't a book about ideas, especially if it's an English. Well, no, it was good. God he was better than Bruno. And Brunel only set a couple of words, but it was a way it was actually colorful. And I think that it was Vince is way of entertaining themselves sometimes to try and get Pat to pronounce certain things like Rio de Janeiro that patches shorten to buy the real. So it was entertaining. At least for vets. So fascinating to me. This is a guy who was all about business. But every now and again, it's cool with silly decision. Just to have fun math Pat Patterson who people they were used to him. And they used to talk any did give good insight for us listening to Pat we liked to make fun of it. But for wrestling fan than is sitting there listening to the first intercontinental champion, give his views. He's not doing color commentary like what you hear. Now, he's doing an analyst Vincent throwing things to him every once in a while, and it's a different voice. But Pat had credibility in that role. One of the things everybody's been talking about is the August twenty six and eighty four in in Minneapolis, by the way, main Jean makers in ring debut first match. He's teaming poll Cogan thank on, Mr. Fuji, and George the animal Steele. But what's memorable about this is that necessarily the mass but the series of in yet that were doing before the match was the same way or we see gene sitting in his dining tables. Buy a cigar. Hugging comes down and gets on about smoking. And then he takes the kitchen and drinks, a bunch of raw eggs cracks them open and glass chugs, without of course, maintain wants nothing to do with that he see people running through a park, and he say at the GM just a series of classic minuets that really are almost like almost like a precursor for the way, you guys ease vignettes to introduce characters at when I go back to watch this. I think this was phase one. One before we had, you know, the Mr. perfect vignette. So the million dollar man vignettes. This was you know, wrestling being presented in a different way. But in a way that made it much bigger fair to say, it was also taking a a local story line, which was hulk and Georgie animal steel, including gene in in Minneapolis. But being able to do all of those vignettes on a national basis on all American wrestling and TNT that got that story out in may, gene, a larger than life character as well. But if you whatever you do you go back, and you wanna look at anything classic mean, gene, Oakland or classic early WWF. Go back and watch these vignettes. There's some of the most entertaining things that you will do all week long guaranteed. It looks like the scenes like in the in the kitchen and at the kitchen table were shot in a trailer, quite frankly. And they probably were no one else swagger back then. But it was entered highly entertaining that holds up to this day. It's just some really entertaining fun stuff. Several little bit about the. The idea of him being so closely associated with Paul Cogan is it is it mostly because of the series of Indiana St. think, no, I think that it's because you know, gene was the guy standing next to hall Cogan for all those years, gene helped hulk HOGAN as much as hall to help, gene. He was the pitch man. He was the guy that was presenting, you know, hulk HOGAN and hulkamania from the W A, and then seemingly came over with Holcombe to the WWF. So it was a package in lot of respects. They're just very identifiable with each other. Of course after the passing. Everybody shared a lot of their memories on social media hulk HOGAN wrote the best partner ever had. We never rehearsed anything scripted from a writer. Jane would just ask me. Hey, big, man. What do you want to do? And I would always answer just folly brother and it worked from nineteen eighty to two thousand seventeen are Pm brother age, it is sort of weird that main gene because I think people really come down to of this like either they remember manging from the WB F Opole Cogan. Are they remember main Jane from RIC flair and the wet he would yell main bug odd, gene? And all that. How many guys had a career? We're really there's you know, we've talked about this a lot with HOGAN the most over baby face. And then later the most over he'll just drew major money on both sides. But gene sorted that not necessarily face. He'll but in two territories where nobody else really did that to that degree didn't they I throw Bobby Heenan in there, even through savage in there. But there were there were a few guys. But not to the extent, I think Jean Oakland was able to define that role in every company that he ever was in from Awa to WWF to WCW, gene. Pain was the mold man gene, was would everybody is fired to be. No, you're exactly right. And you know, I I would challenge you on macho man, I think once had a much more significant Ryan in the negative WCW. And I think you can even say that for Bobby Heenan. I think Bobby Heenan in the WB WF was on top of his game by the time of your old around and just wasn't the same. And maybe some of that is because we saw so much of them and jeans appearances were more sporadic, and maybe less as more. I don't know. But it's just fascinating to me because depending on the age of my friend. I know which manging, you know, if your mind she remembered the HOGAN stuff, but if you're ten years younger, it's all about the WCW years. Let's talk a little bit about what's going on in the WB f-. He's got lots of. Famous interactions because this is during the rock and wrestling era. So you've got shows where Mr. tease around us. Well, what did what did gene thank of the influence of the mainstream professional wrestling feels like something he would have been a proponent for. He joined it. I know I think that the most infamous was the Billy Martin vignettes that they shot out in San Diego where Jean shows up to work with Billy Martin and Billy is sitting at the bar, absolutely trashed and jeans trying to get something out of him. But gene, relish those moments, gene, relish, taking the impossible and making something out of it. But that was probably his favourite I walk in and this guy sitting at the bar Hebert three sheets to the wind. I'm like what the hell am I supposed to do in this guy that's turning on their camera on let's go. And that was gene. It was. Let's get it on. Let's go although it for him. So I think that gene kinda relish working with those those folks, and he was again that conduit to the other side. I like the said, let's get it on because that was the attitude that I think he took wrestlemainia I didn't even know this all started doing some research this true. Hey, sang the national anthem wrestlemania one personal. It's unbelievable to me, you know, the rumor and innuendo was that the head of major name lined up and winds up whoever the person is under no showing and they're gonna pensions. Although it any did that that's a little footnote in history that you know, I didn't know he's told us before Howard Finkel kind of put the name wrestlemania. But the idea that manging sang the national anthem at the first one somehow wasn't even bigger mind blower to make. I just never would've managed, gene Kerner. Oh, yeah. Definitely, man. Gene, loved to sing was gene was one of those guys at a party when they would play piano. The gene would be right next to the piano player. Singing songs absolute classic, and he did it inches Christmas parties when the guy would sit down at the piano, gene would be at the other end singing songs you'd be in a bar somewhere. They would have a piano and somebody would start to play, gene. It was absolutely great multi-talented. Well, let's let's skip forward. Here. We spent a lot of time talking about what happened before you knew gene before you had mentioned. What was your impression of gene before you met him? I talked about this before you came to work for the company after wrestlemania three and nine hundred eighty seven, but you've been seeing some of these vignettes doing with Holker we're gonna new seen obviously his work in Awa and how to be f- in your like way back machine. What was the rap on gene and Texas on the Paul boss territory? And how was he regarded and fault of when you actually make the trip up there? Well, I think Paul Bosch kinda looked at him. And it was it was funny because Paul in with the note pad and write down some of the attitudes that gene would use to describe the action and describe different things. I'll ridiculous is this. So I looked gene as an unbelievable pitch, man. And I did those stand up interviews in the mid south Sogenal somebody that I looked to to try and steal from because he was regarded as the best. He he was just he was the best. So I tried to steal things from him little nuances that he did in. That's who you stole from. So he I respected him. I didn't know him. I knew the worked for that. I didn't know him from Adam. And I was kind of I was excited that was one of the people when you go up there that you wanna meet and get to know. Well, he met a workhorse. I think most people remember back in the day one of the things that did is they cut I think people referred to as localized promos. Why would this Friday night at the garden staying you're going down, whatever. And then they run that. And all the different local markets. You know, whenever they have syndicated shows air allegedly one of the first places they really settle in on doing these big loops like this as in San Diego. And we've actually got a listener the show here who was involved with bicycling times back and forth. Shoot a lot of them out there. They have spot they're comfortable in new Honda who to call if tapes around probable he said once maintain said once he did a hundred and forty one locals promos the same day. It was one of the San Diego marathon shooting sessions you figure hundred forty one promos roughly three minutes each. You're talking about over seven hours worse before breaks before retakes before, you know, setting up the the bit or planning or lunch or if seven hours. No. So you make it sound like like, we're doing one of our shows. No, it's it was Howard Finkel with the book and sheets of paper with the localize interviews, and it was gene and a room full of talent. And Howard would say all right now, we're doing which talk Kansas on Monday, April fifth show. Here's the arena here. So you're wrestling with here's the car. They would tape the card up on the bottom of the camera and Howard would say, okay. Look around the room and go. All right. We're gonna do Ricky steamboat your wrestling. Jake, the snake Roberts and gene would look at the car to go. All right. What utah? We're coming to you this running. I you're not gonna wanna miss this. This one the hawks there's going to be an town and he's going to be taking King Kong Bundy. And then from there, demolition Bauma and Ricky steamboat come on. Join me, my friend. You're going to be taking on the snake Jake Roberts. Ricky would talk for however long he would talk gene would fill the rest of that. And they would go on to the next one in. That's how those damn things were done at that time. There was no writing. There was no there was no scripts. It was Howard sitting there with his book and the list of towns with the syndicated markets saying, okay, this television shows show airs on Saturday night. I mean on Saturday morning the show was going to be on Saturday night. So this one you make reference to tonight or the week before you're making reference to next week next Saturday right here. And it was just told to him and he would digest it and knock it out. That's how they did it and you would do that. You would start about eight o'clock in the morning, and you would go until about ten o'clock at night one right after the other after the other after the other after the other. Talk about the television show all American wrestling. He was the host of that show and the head a few different little skits on the show sometimes had interact with staff members and get their opinions on what's going on every half and other times he'd be on the phone at least pretending to be on the phone to the famous celebrity that occasionally someone would stop by. You got any stories about all American wrestling. And some of these different shows all American wrestling is what vents started off with where he all the tapes. And we're he really got to know all of the other talent in the different territories around the country because they would send their tapes and they wanted their guys to be on all American wrestling. So they would play tapes from junkyard dog and from hulk HOGAN and from Jimmy snuck in all these guys from all over different parts, and then Vince would reach out and bring these guys in but. But later on and as gene would always say when the ratings starting to tank, that's when Vince hadn't it off. And all American wrestling, kind of reached a plateau in Vince handed off to gene, gene, rela said idea, we would take all American wrestling in the at one four that we did it in Baltimore to studio there. But it was gene standing in a room, and we would do three weeks at a time. He's standing in room do ins and outs matches. And he would just add limit. Here's what we're going to gene he would ad lib. But he wanted to have some creative freedom, and he invents agreed to let Jean have one minute. Sixty seconds per show. Gene, do whatever you want and Jean liked to do these little skits on the phone where he would be calling someone, and you would only hear one side of the conversation. Well, Bert how you doing there. Gene. Oakland. Yeah. Tell naughty. I said Hello. And he would have these conversations and whatever was topical in the news at the time. So that was jeans one minute. We let him kind of do whatever he wanted after a while I had stopped being hands on producing that show and let another producer takeover that show. And I get a phone. Call one day from vents. We had eight hours of television every single week brand new programming every week, and I didn't watch every every single addition of every show that that came out. But on one of the versions of all American wrestling. He apparently did one where he was like. Yeah. How you doing there? George house, Barbara. All right. Yes. Yes. Yes. The Bush and something like that. I don't know exactly what it was. But it was Barbara and Bush in the same bit and the network went fucking ballistic absolutely ballistic that gene, gene, Oakland was allegedly talking about Barbara's bushes. Bush is what they said and so on so forth. And it was gene being gene just doing his double entendre stuff that. Got a little trouble with. That is hilarious of all things. I thought you'd be talking about today. Barbara Bush Bush as not on the list, let's talk a little bit about. And this is something we and asked about a lot the wrestling album. Rick derringer, our did a song rock and roll hoochie coup. And of course, I think most people dare injures most famous piece of wrestling business is whole insurance thing real American, but to fruity on the wrestling album as well jeans bar this, you weren't there for it. But you've probably got some fun stories that have what trick trickle down the line over the years right on the wrestling album, gene did to fruity on piledriver, which was the second album is gene actually did rock and roll Chiku. And Joe lots my friend. Joel watts who came up to WWF with me produced the video for that. And that's when actually got to meet and work with Rick derringer, which was one of the coolest things ever for a twenty four year old kid be sitting there with Rick derringer and Rick derringer playing guitar in slow motion just the coolest shit, but that's being around gene, Oakland and him doing that was just crazy because he's telling derringer what to do on different things. And it was just classic because here's again, Rick derringer, a rock and roll God. I don't care who you are. You debate me all you want. But he was he is a rock and roll God. And it was really nice to see Oakland collaborating with derringer derringer actually having the time of day to speak to me that was my memory of the piledriver wrestling album, which gene Oakland. Let's talk about the nineteen eighty-seven slamming awards you were there December six eight Caesar's palace in Las Vegas. Palaces a cool wrestling place. I didn't really think about that. But you guys that wrestlemania? They are those champions there and evenly slimy. Ords Palestinian, gene. And Jesse Ventura are the host for this. And gene is also the co winner of the best head award, which Sese flair would certainly take issue with that title was shared with bam. Bam. Bigelow. What do you remember about the sleigh me awards for nineteen eighty seven a week's worth of rehearsals, one week being in Caesars in Atlantic City and having to go through every pain staking second of that show every single day the choreography with the dancers, and the guys who had never danced before end or really saying live before they did the the album, you know, in a studio and shit. So they never actually sang these things before and Vince wanted to do it all live and. Doing all real no lip synching and all that other good shit. In Jane, Jesse were holding it all together. And there was a bit that I was responsible for which was the fight with access Jim Duggan and Harley race. During the the night. There was a gimmick screen that went down on the stage that Harley and Doug and were supposed to go through. But they were only supposed to go through it. The second on the second live show the first live show. They were supposed to go around it and the second live show, we were actually going to break through it. Well, we had hurston million times. And we were doing the first show in Harley in Doug in her back there the waiting on the Q, and I give them the Q and before I know it they went right through the middle of the screen, and we only had one. Thank God for gene, Oakland because Oakland, reacted Oakland. He he didn't live. He did it off the cuff Jesse. If you go back and watch Jesse didn't know what the hell the do because he was waiting for him to come around the corner and Oakland was savior and Jean being on the spot. Like that was you put him out there live, and I never really had to worry about gene VN out there live because he would be able to cover whatever was thrown at him and everybody came back yelling and screaming. But at the end of the day. Yes, it was a fuck up. They just misunderstood. They thought they were only gone through wants, which they were just a second show and it all worked out for the better. Because. Has changed format of the vent centers sometime in nineteen eighty eight and Jean is the host of that talk about the change that you did here in how gene was feeling with this new role for years what the what had been was traditional interview segments where gene stood there with the talent interview them for every single market. It was time consuming. It was laborious and it had become a in some ways a play thing for Howard Finkel. We're Howard would have guys do interviews that would never air. And when we started looking at the stockpile of everything that we had just came up with a better way to do it. And I stole the idea from mid south because that's how we had done them in mid south, except we did them with actual commentators. We would throw back and forth, and you do generic interview with rapper outs. So what it became was, gene. Being in a. Studio, gene, would do the market specific stuff. Hey, a Lanta. We're going to be there. This Tuesday night at the Omni arena. Tickets are available here. Gene, would do those wrap arounds and then he would throw to talent. And they would do the same interview in that interview would air in every market that that match was pertinent. It wouldn't be specific to Atlanta. But gene stuff would. So it required gene coming to the studio and knocking all of that stuff out. And it was a lot. To Jean felt like a lot more work because he had to come to Stanford in reality. It was a lot less work for gene talent editors everybody. But it was just new and it was and it was different. And then vents counter was looking at it like God damn it. If he lived here would be a problem and that scare gene to death. He did not wanna live in Sanford. Hey did. Good point. Okay. Let's talk about wrestlemainia four this your first wrestlemania. It's a big moment. It's a big time preview and we've done full show on it in the archives. But I feel like you have to have something you can share with us. Jane from that show Jesus. My first my first wrestlemainia, man. And I'm the producer of the show. I'm twenty five years old kid. I'd never produced. The Russell may know what the hell I was doing invents. Told me make sure you have production meetings with all of the commentators. And and make sure that you get with everybody individually and have a production meeting with them and go over everything, Mike. Okay. Yes, sir. Got it. So I'd had. One with gorilla monsoon and those guys which took about an hour and a half or so and my next one was gene Oakland's gene shows up. Jane comes to the room, and he walks in and Rosie. What have we got today? I said, well, let's go show goes do we really need to go over the show. I said, well, yeah, you need to know what you're doing. 'cause I'm gonna be interviewing guys, right? Well, yes, sir. And he's like got it. All right. See their kid and walked out of there. That was my production meeting with Jean ochre Lynn, and he was gone before. I realized what the fuck just happened and everything worked out perfectly. He did interviews. Let's talk about Sean Mooney. Sean Mooney is another guy that I really think about this era. The I mean to me it's maintain Sean Mooney from the announcer side. Sean tweeted out sad day in the world of entertainment, and for the fans of the great at the gene Oakland, as I've long said there was gene Oakland, and then there was the rest of us rest. Well, my friend has tagged goat. I mean, everybody's saying that everybody not just fans people who were in the business people who are, you know, his coworkers in that business. They all regard him as being the goat. What how did gene handle some of the younger talent? Because jeans. Obviously, the elder statesman of the group when a young guy like Sean Mooney comes in power. Gene handle the the young upstarts who were coming in with class in. Gene was the first one to lend a hand he wasn't. He wasn't fearful of his job. He wasn't one to a lot of the old timers when new talent come in. They get very fearful and protective of their spot. Jane looked at Sean Mooney is an opportunity more free time for gene and more time for gene to do other things. So he was there to help Sean every way that he possibly could. And it was from everything that I could tell outside looking in was a great relationship, and I relied on gene to do that I relied on gene to to help the younger talent get these guys through some of the ship. It and he never failed. Let me ask you this. You know, these days a lot of guys travel together. So this guy rows with that guy that girl rods that girl was gene Rodman was when when you guys were making town the traveling companion. I think for for the most of the time when when he did travel a somebody would probably be Bobby Heenan or. Lot of times he travel by himself. But he always would hang out with the production guys Jean love to hang out with the crew. He was just he was one of the boys. But he he was one of the crew to and he he loved everybody, you know, behind the cameras. So that was that was jeans click. A little bit about one of the more famous main gene moments summer, slam nineteen eighty nine you know, where I'm going with us. I'll take it from here. Hub. Boy, will we did pre tapes. And during one of the earlier pre tapes that I think Bobby Heenan and Rick rude in the middle of the pre-tape, the the summer slam sign had been set up, and it was like masking tape or something that the was holding the sign of the wall in the middle of the interview the the damn sign fell. Gene, just started on. I was like well fuck it. And we cut tape, and obviously we did another one get signed back put up and did another one. Well, we're live and in the middle of live show, the commentators throwback, Tony shivani and Jesse Ventura two things happen that night that that really were the impetus of what I would use for announcer tryouts for many years after that in the opening shot. When kirwin was scanning the crowd doing the ballyhoo across the crowd. A woman jumps in front of the crane and takes her top off and it made air in it made air on the live show Jesse. And Tony completely froze. Did not know what to say. Then they and they said nothing which was even worse then from there on this same thing happened. And and we're Vince screaming, Adam, you know, got cover covered SEIs something and Jesse kind of fill farted around and jumped on Oakland a little. A bit. But it was it was demonstration of for me than it used many years later for announcers always to have something react, even if it's wrong react because it's live, and we're looking for you to pull all this shit together. And then we played the right tape. But yeah, that was a complete one genes fuck up. It was a truck fuck out. Still hilarious though. One of the things that's been floated around is a screen. Grab of when you guys were apparently just messing around with main, gene? And put something up there on the the lower third where Senator say major line that said main quote, unquote, tiny, dick, Jane, Oakland. Is that a man who would have been having fun in the truck when I put tiny on the screen did that air? Didn't air, but it was released a series of bloopers few years ago, and you know, that same blue Correal had manging cracking everybody up because allegedly these interviews while the, you know, we're we're long and people were probably tired through the end of gene, Kip, everybody laughing because he was trying to crack you up and some of that stuff. He would go really really blue with. So it never made the air. Remember any famous gene stand up moments like that where he thought this is great ship, but we can never show it most most every. Taping session that we had to at all American. They they became absolutely insane. And I remember one year for jeans birthday. We actually got him a strip Graham to come to the studio, and they did a strip tease for him. And and Jean thought it was something else. It's like, oh, you got me a girl. Thank you very much. It's like, no, gene. You can't keep her. She's just have to sit there. She's going to strip over here. And I remember afterwards because he sat in the chair and she stripped for him probably about three or four feet away. And she's like came over, you know, put her clothes back on and gave me look kiss on the head. And he looks at all like, that's it. That's it. That's all. I get. And it was just. Yeah. Typical gene. We. Yeah. Most of his stuff was pretty blue. But it was a lot of fun. And when you're working all those crazy hours. He think about it, man. You've got twenty different script writers writing scripts for everything that everybody says on the air. Now, gene did that shit off the top of his head where we would sit and look at a show, and I would go okay here. We're throwing this got it. And he would just do it and make it entertaining. So it wasn't anything as a producer that. I did get it out of gene had a natural talent that I could depend on that would make shin entertaining. And that was gene Oakland. Outstanding. On those interesting interviews are floating around right now there's been some of Ken patera in some with the lady wrestler in a smaller there. But no some fun stuff out there. Let's talk a little bit about survivor series nineteen ninety we've covered this in the archives. But it's another famous maintain moment where I feel bad for a little bit. And you guys having debut the fuck in goblet Guber and Jane dances him in the ring. What was? Was take away from the fucking gobbly gingko. Jeez. Psycho was everybody else's takeaway chain had a front row seat for it? What the fuck is this? And when we rehearsed the damn thing, we didn't have I don't think that we had the head on the gobbly Gook or so you really couldn't understand him in. We kept doing it for him. So it was. You know, Hector say. But we were gobbly cooker, dammit. And it came across even worse live, gene had fun with it. And he went out and Vince wanted him to do somersaults, and he's like just can't do that vents. I can't physically do it. If you want me to take a bumper or do somersault, I'll never get up, and I think he did one or two, but it was absolutely horrifying. And gene embodied that moment so much with his reaction to it. Because it was a what the fuck my looking at. And you felt it all over him. So what are the things I wanted to talk to you about as the open aware? You're never short on. Opinions there genus said the ultimate warrior was the most impossible for him to work with on interviews. And you just sorta describing how men breeze for everybody. And if I could do it he would do it for them. But when it came to the ultimate warrior like we've heard this story before any interesting. Mangino Maurier stories. You can share no genius didn't wanna work with him. Because there was nothing for gene to do. And as soon as Jean would start to do his job whether it was selling the event or selling the local venue, whatever wire will come in. In gene would hold try to hold the microphone, and he would walk around behind him. And gene, we'll try and wrap it up voyeur just keep going Jean finest. What the fuck am I doing here? Just let him let him do shit. It's ridiculous for me to to stand here and do this. So there was a frustration there. But that's the only guy, you know, gene, looked at it as a challenge on some people. Try get interviews out of him and put words in their mouth and making good and warriors just was impossible along. Give me an example of a guy like that. A guy like nail sometimes guy like Greg Valentine could be challenging Ricky steamboat was not greatest promo in the world. So right, Dino, Bravo, Frenchy Martin some of those guys, you know, it was painful to try get interviews out of them. But you had you had to get something with them. Gene. Would put the words in their mouth and make it entertaining. Mr fuji. Not always that easy voice on. You know, we've heard through the years especially about him day that when near champ minutes wants to talk to you all the time. You know, you go from you know, Vince is they are. But you don't have a ton of interaction with maybe TV here there. Whatever to win. You're the champ. You have a lot more communication with vents. And I'm sure Vince feels that way because our does that because this is really sort of the face of the company. What do you think about amount of TV time and the relationship with viewer? Mangino Cleveland was also sort of faced with the company was his relationship like with vents once they really got up and going. Great. I mean, really and truly great Vince trust, gene. So just as is stated before you you could give Jean something and feel confident that he was going to deliver. So that that relationship was one of trust. And they liked each other. They had a good time. Together, they go out and party together. It was a mutual respect and a genuine genuinely liked each other. So that helped but most importantly, I think that there was respect and trust on both sides that Vince, trusted, gene, trusted, his judgment that whatever he was going to do was going to be the right thing. Well in the right thing is to take care of your money and being good steward with your money. And Brits, you've got a tip on how some of our listeners can do that. Right. Because Robin Hood, it's an investing app and let you buy sell stocks ETF S's options cryptos all commission free. So even if you're a stock market newcomer, you can invest for the first time with true confidence. Man, it is so easy when you go to their site. It's easy to navigate. It's easy to get stocks. I said, even if it is your first time now other brokerages charge up to ten dollars for every every single trade. 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He was the voice behind so many WBZ most iconic and entertaining moments and the WB family will miss him immensely, and I think one of those times moments that everybody remembers and you weren't there. Royal rumble nineteen hundred two RIC flair cutting the hell room with a tear in my eye. It's a big moment. The end of world champion finally WBF champion people waiting for this for a long time. And what will happen if RIC flair win? So that everybody F while he's here, and for the first time ever, the winner of the Royal rumble becomes champion, and it's the nature boy. And in the middle of all that put that cigarette out, and we still get questions about this literally every week you weren't there. What do you remember about it? I'm sure you've talked about it discussed it with somebody at some point. Yeah. Discuss it with you. When you showed it to me for the first time a couple years ago, and I laughed my azoff because it's in the moment live in there is no way to go back and end at that it lives forever. It's one of those classic loehmann's. So all I can imagine is Pat. Patterson Jack lands being backstage at the time and smoking a cigarette or maybe one of the crew guys one of the extras on the crew sitting there having a having a cigarette and gene catching it out of the corner of his I I don't know what happened, but that's probably probably what took place at that time. What are you about the the skiff? He did with the Bushwacker. I think Thomas on even have produce this produce the ones the original ones. And it was some of the most fun because Vince had this vision for the bush-whackers and most of it involved eating and getting really messy. So everything that we did vents wanted the bush-whackers get gene messy as well. So it was a lot of fun kind of going around Stanford different locations, and allowing the Bushwacker to bushwack whatever was in their path and after while gene had fun with gene just in like in like get messed up, and especially didn't like all the sardines and crap. But that was that was a shitload of fun. And after a while gene started contributing to that we did stuff with them on their initial vignettes. And then we did stuff with them at Busch gardens where we had them kind of going. Through the. The animal kingdom and different things. Like that that Oakland was a part of. But you could put gene in any situation. He'd make it work. Let's talk about when he couldn't make it work anymore. His final appearance with the F is on superstars September eighteenth nineteen ninety three and gene is gonna record science contract expired. It simply wasn't offered a new one. And he said he'd probably could have sat down with Vance came to some sort of deal, but they had already been talking WCW. So he decided to go there. This is happening at a time. When the business is definitely on the down swing in. Everybody knows the tough times that are head for not at four ninety five and here at the end of night three one of the guys who's most closely associated with your brand as contract expires. You're there at the time was this just a business decision. And he couldn't afford to keep gene or while contract. Not redact exactly what it was, gene. Gene was going to remain with us. It was going to involve a cut in pay. And probably a reduction in in a lot of his workload is well. But it was definitely gonna involve a reduction in his pay and Vincent wanna stand in his way and didn't want insulting either. So I think it was just a mutual parting of the ways for business at the time. Headed had advanced take that was just very matter. If I can't afford him size gotta go. Or is there some sonar? God damn we gotta find a way to keep gene. I never heard Vance. There never really was. It was it was just strictly business, his heart. I think is heart hurt a little bit. But he moved on in in business. He just moves on. But I think that at the. After all was said and done. I think it's just hard a little bit to see him go. But there was nothing. There was nothing. We could do to keep him because he wasn't gonna take a reduction in pay, and it was a better deal for him to go to WCW. Here's my question. I guess I sort of had an idea what you were going to answer that before you did. But why not even just offer? I mean, we'll just being honest and saying, gene Alami, okay? Engage engage engaging and gave him the blessing to to go and look for something else. Gene mentioned when he left he gave bents Huggins office. How does that process that he think when you've got a guy who's been with you for ten years, and he was with you when he built this company just monumental heights. And just made more money than you could ever imagine for yourself and your family and all the families associated with the brand. But now, well the business sane better day some that God's leaving. And this is a time when you know hall cogos laughed when the much van departures coming the next year gas, you're really closely associated with the brand Bobby Heenan. They're they're out. But main gene was always there. You know, when it's gonna make a movie, gene, still here Chebbi up MS vents, just compartmentalize all of this as I have is able to just keep it moving. Exactly, you just you just have to keep moving if you stop then you're gonna get swallowed up. So you keep moving you wish him, well, and you move on it's, but but at the same time, it's a family because you spend so many hours together, you work so hard together you can't help but have feelings and and become close with people. So that part is hard, but you have to put on the business hat and just keep moving forward. What was the reaction internally? You know, like amongst the boys when they say that a guy who's been here so long gene laving create state of panic for any of the gals. I wouldn't say panic sadness. Yes. And I think that from from my vantage point, I definitely know from the production guys the studio they've a really sad. They were upset that gene left because he was one of the boys. He was one of the crew. And he was someone that always hung out with them. We always had a really good time together. So there's there's just sorrow. I mean, it's just genuine sadness with someone that you love is is leaving you. I'm done. We've done a bunch of the shows where we talk about gossip fall out of favor with Vance for whatever reason. And that's really what this show is guess is just peering into the mind of a madman that one that created the WB at for, you know, however, we want to categorize what we're doing on the show. But one of the things have always been fascinated with is have conspiracy process all of this and something that did become to lie until in research for the show this week. I'm a fly over is his last couple of years in the WF. He wasn't on speaking terms of vets. I mean, that's direct from Jean that he wasn't on the best. Speaking terms with fans, once there's some some falling out that maybe we haven't ever really discussed or did was the the stress and pressure of the business getting Vince at that point. No. And it was I don't know that g may have characterized it that way, but gene didn't have. Have any interaction with Vince? Because gene was doing things at the studio. Gene, wasn't on the road with us all the time at that point. He would come in every once in a while he just didn't have that interaction within that he used to have. So you think that that the need think that is a move vents banks preemptively? When he knows he's gonna have to sever the relationship. No. I just it was it was just simply a. The way that we were doing business at the time. And so much of what we had done on the road so much of what Vince used to be involved with he was no longer involved with and a lot of that went over to the television production side, and what we were doing is like we would write TV, we would go and produce it. And then we were pretty much hands off on a lot of it from the production end of things, and that was Kevin Donna his groups gene was mainly working with Kevin and the guys on that end of things. He he wasn't working with us on the front end of gene was more on the back end of it. So the relationship in the just the interaction not relationship the interaction with vents was no longer there. Because Vince wasn't producing that stuff. We're in the beginning. He did right. Let's talk about jumping ship here. At happens November six nineteen ninety three is when I pop up on Saturday night. So not a ton of separation does Vance or anybody in the company feel some sort of tinge of I don't know maybe ownerships, not the right worry behind. He supposed to be our guy shouldn't be there. It stinks. It's always gonna sting especially someone who is notable Gino kirtland because he was the guy that was on on everything with us out nights main event. Everything we did, gene Oakland. So. Yeah, it stung. But again, she can't can't dwell on it. Meltzer wrote about jeans leaving of course, he said Jean Oakland who came along with David chills on the first Vincent back. What talent raid of the AMA eighty three appears to be severing ties with the group after nearly ten years of on again off again employment. Eventually he would say no other details available than word reaching us that up happy with the new deal offered by the VF, which may have included having him moved to Connecticut fulltime his WWAFL was reportedly for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars per year. Plus thirty five percent of the not hundred number and allegedly. That's true. I've actually picked Eric Bischoff sprain about the hotline business on three weeks. And he said that. Yeah. The rumor and innuendo that Jane was a partner on the hotline as accurate it was found money for WC view that was almost no revenue traction there before. So if Jinchi grew it the gene deserved to participate, and he. You did a great job at it allegedly up to half a million dollars a year. The thing would generate just from people like listeners this show, myself included who would call in and wanna hear what Mark Madden or maintain or Bobby Heenan or whoever saying to fifty year. Obviously that's a lot higher than what everybody was offering. The you believe that the the move was something that was discussed their ninety three on that bag contract offer that you said the vents did make a reduced rate or is that Meltzer free style because he was a hot button for Jane. I I don't I don't understand the question was what? Moving like, do you think the part of the one of the stipulations in this contract each advance offered him that ultimately he didn't take these think that moving to Connecticut was pardoned of that? No. At that. At that time. I don't believe it was. And I think that more than anything it was if we were going to do something we have to reduce straight. Then what you making and g wasn't interested in that. And he had the other offer out. There was going to stand in his way or the other offer. Did you stay in touch with Jane when he went to W, I did not saw a few times. But it wasn't something that no we didn't. We didn't stay in touch. I know that there were different overtures over the years to folks in the production company production company and the production side of things to come back. But no, I personally didn't say in in touch with Jean the next the next time that I had any real interaction with him. Was it wrestlemainia in Houston for the gimmick battle, Royal? Let's talk about that. Wrestlemania seventeen two thousand one he's gonna do commentary with his longtime close personal friend. Mr. Bobby, the brain Heenan and began about a Royal ear involved w w only been down for a little while. How does this come to be? The the whole concept behind the the damn gimmick battle Royal was going back and getting every gimmick that there was you know, putting him in this one one battle, Royal? Then it became how do we make it even more special? I believe it was a might have been Kevin Dunn's idea to do. We want to go back. God what you first of all you think wouldn't it be great to have gorilla monsoon back here to call this thing. Well, through the years as I'd mentioned gene had made overtures about wanting to come back Kevin said jeans available gene would be perfect for this. Well, who else would be perfect for his Bobby the brain Heenan, so Kevin reached out to both of them. And the deal was made they came in and that opened the door for them to come back and kind of come back into the family and do some things with the time. What the hell was it WWF twenty four seven. Know that thing on on cable. And so there were some new programming that they could contribute to and the rest is I say history Jane returned. Yeah. So now I did classics on demand, but the amass Square Garden classics for the machine at work, and he did a lot of stuff for the vintage collection in two thousand eight this is pre network, but they're certainly laying the groundwork the legends of the roundtable and things like that all are on the network now, and he's got a big role a lot of those. He finally gets into the hall of fame inducted by his longtime close personal friend, the immortal in April of two thousand six and doing his acceptance speech a said that he wanted to still alive from Bob Knight and be buried face down upon his deaths of his critics could kiss his ass. That's all tremendous. That's classic Oakland. He also manage to go ahead and induct his other longtime close personal friend, Mr Howard Finkel into the hall of fame in two thousand nine and there was a series of old school promos that we saw in November of twenty ten where they did like an old school episode of raw and the had gene and full nostalgia. Interviewing gones, like Johnson on Randy Orton, and that sort of kick started a new movement to sell like nostalgia versions of the logo. Of course, could call it every BF so they just chop the the F off. But they got the two ws in there and really doubled down on the stalled. I don't know you weren't there for that. But there's nobody better for that spot that main, gene, right? Absolutely. And I'm going to go back because you'd asked me earlier about people that mean Jean traveled with in his early days of traveling in the company, I totally remiss, but oh mentioned it was with Howard Finkel and Howard. Gene, traveled up and down the highways and the byways every day, and that is what Jean says contributed to his drinking and growing old a lot faster than he absolutely should have was traveling with Howard Finkel all those years, but that they were traveling partners early on when they were doing the individual localized interviews every day in a different market. Jane would pop up sporadically wrestlemania twenty seven in the rock compete. We Herman smackdown and April twenty twelve. Another episode in December twenty twelve this time for raw where they're doing slamming match of the year ward, he'd appeared young ninetieth birthday party in two thousand thirteen he did the old old school raw twenty fourteen tnr. They did like a wrestling hotline spoof. He jetted Mr. T in the hall of fame in twenty fourteen. And then maybe the most recent thing that we all remember about gene was leads house, which is able on the network, and I don't think they'll probably do another one. But man, it will Super Bowl and to sort of see these guys in element. And I had by the time that show aired I had met Jean hung out with Jane few times, the Rick and boy that show really captured who mangy and really was he would I think most people talk about this a lot. But a may or may not have enjoyed alcohol. Corvette. And may or may not have had some kidney complications. And he and Rick would talk about hell after night show. They would have to head the bar. I have about eighteen clear ones. Conrad and I don't know why. But that crack me up, but jeans, drinking was legendary any good manging drinking stories, you can share that. I can share. Yes. So that caveat in there. I think that one of the funniest was when we were at a brand new hotel. We were trying out and Stanford Connecticut, a really nice high end hotel for some reason was given us these incredibly great rates after a particular evening out with gene, gene, tried to hug a several thousand dollar vase or vase. She likes to say. And it came tumbling down with gene in his in his state of maybe having one or two too many of martinis, but that was few and far between Jean liked to have have a drink or two. And we had a lot of fun out in the bars. And what have you, but he was always a blast and go back to that hotel. They immediately took that right away from us and asked us to please not book anything in their hotel going forward after that night. But he he was a lot of fun man, gene. Gene was an awful lot of fun. One of the things he was probably not ham. But somebody on his behalf is he trying to get over the phrase, holy balls on Twitter. Gene ISM that. Maybe I didn't never hear. I'm never heard that. Well, I'll tell you company surprise earlier this year because I saw Jean mountain dew kickstart commercial, Kevin Hart. I believe in the commercials trying to impersonate Randy savage, and I think last time we saw him on WBZ TV was January where he was on the twenty fifth anniversary episode of raw is interviewing AJ styles. Now is probably your last time or next to last time saying gene in real life right on though, he saw him at the twenty fifth anniversary around New York. We saw in there. Then we saw him in Winston Salem, wrestle Cade any final lasting memories of Jane. You wanna share with us about your last few visits him? You know, I I remember going back to the twenty fifth anniversary of Rahm. I remember that evening when gene was getting ready to go out and talking to him in him just saying, wow, they've got so many riders so many people running around. Remember how used to do it? We kind of chuckled, you know, reminisced a little bit. And they look at me says, Bruce, I don't know any of these guys I need them to write it down for me now. And they're telling me, gene, you got it. I don't know. They all I'm talking to. In that was typical gene. And then he pulled it off like the champ that he is the last time that I saw was this this past November Winston Salem. And i'm. You know, the last thing that I. I did was kiss him on the forehead and said, I love you, gene. And I'll see you later. And I had I known as last time. I was going to see him. But I'm glad I'm glad I got to tell them that. And we were sitting there at the bar when he was having dinner before we went to go do our show and invited him to the show, and he was tired and just got up kissed him on the forehead and the loved him. Well, let's. Trumping up here on. Fortunately, we lost main. Jane on January second earlier this week. He's buzz wife and fifty four years Tucson's Todd and tour three grandchildren tied as a professional hockey player with the New York Islanders, obviously true legend and an icon on the wrestling business and lots people throw those words around, but then ever more deserving them with main, gene. What do you think genes? Like see that's going to be it isn't going to be holy balls. No. No. I just I will always see gene hold the microphone with that other hand up in the air. And and I will always picture standing next to whole Cogan and getting hulkamania over to the level that got I mean, Gino, Colin is said he he was he was the best. And he's what everyone aspired to be. Let's let's ask some questions. We took social media and said, hey, Colin audible recovered Mangena this week they were questioned about mangy and if so just had it's right here. Katherine wants to know who to gene love working with and who has lace favorites to work with. But far hulk HOGAN was probably favorite by long shot, is least favorite was probably warrior, and savage. Savage. No, once I haven't just because Randy could be Randy sometimes and be a little off putting and just ran could be rent rate and could be intense sometimes and Jean liked to have fun. And Randy brandy wasn't in the mood to have fun was what was but they got along. I'm just saying as far as working with them and being predictable and unpredictable. Teela Brown, not dealing this Taylor. Oh, there any talent. Gene had heat with backstage sailing. He was pretty well liked cross the board. Did anybody really not like Jane? I if the if they did never knew about it. No. I think gene was really genuinely liked by everybody. RJ sergeant wants to your best memory of being on the road with Jay. And he told the drinking story earlier, you got get ribs that gene ater had playoff hammer plan on other guys. Not off the top of my head. You know, gene? Gene was one of those guys always had always liked to have a good time. Gene was the one that would break the tension. Gene was the one that kept everybody laughing when it was it was late at night, and we still had to shows to go. Jane was bussed in everybody's balls kinda ribbon on the square, but he was cab. Manny was just a pro. He could get you through it. Darrelle wants to know. What's the best main? Gene moment, they got left on the cutting room floor. I think that if you went back and took all jeans fucked this you would have you'd have a pretty good long real the the best stuff was things when he would just completely go off the rails with his one minute bits. And we'd have say God's. No. We can't go there. You can't do that. I'll put a lot of was just some of the blue humor that he would do in the confines of the studio for all Americans and outs. This is from round did any of the boys intentionally try to make gene crackup during their promise. We've seen a lot of guys are trying to really make the other ones laugh, and I think something waiver commentating on a press conference in wrestling recently happened when I look guys we're trying to make the other ones laugh, do you? Remember anybody who always made at the Michigan, gene crack or vice versa? Piper always used to kind of pride himself and seeing if he could get him to break character little bit. Roddy was definitely good at that. Donny once I was there ever any real life? Hey between, gene. And Bobby Heenan? They always seem to be taking potshots at each other on the air. So I always wondered if the really didn't like each other or if they're just to France joking around. They were the very best friends inside outside of the ring. That's what made it so good. That's what's so fun. To me is I get messages all the time listeners to this show who thank you. And I just legitimately hate each other to the point where when we were on vacation recently ran into a listener who said, oh my God. What the hell you doing here? So I'm still vacation. And he's like you going to -cation. I don't know why that maybe laugh. And and then he said, we're here will and I was almost very society fucking, Bruce. People don't believe that you and I are transgender life. So that that question. Stuck outs me Brandon wants to know in your opinion? Bruce and had better chemistry with managing hulk HOGAN, RIC flair, Randy savage. I don't think Randi's conversation Koga hulk HOGAN, really have been Ricky. Yes. John wants to know the WB ever having problem with main jeans not hundred rumors when he was on the WCW shows or it seemed that he was far too offering applying rumor and innuendo about WBF stars. I think that there were times we were miffed at some of the things that were reported. But again that was in the middle of the war, and we were lobbying just as many back the other way as they were our way. Kenny wants to main Mangena ever appear in Houston during the brief time that they'd be Efim Paul Bosch work together in the summer of eighty seven his appearances were three video tape when he would interview Nick bop winkle who was the w world champion, Bobby Heenan when they would come down and do have matches in Houston. So gene was in that way. He appears not live. Jason wants to know what was main finest work while all American wrestling, the brain. I think the genes finest work was a stand up interviews and his his step. Promoting the towns to me that is that's gene, Oakland. That's what he was best. Nick wants to know how many are who were jeans best friends on the you've told us thankful. You've told us Bobby Heenan. Is there another name? I think I think HOGAN. In that that pretty much covers it as far as his very best friends. He was that. He was really close with. Randy what I'd have to throw him in there. Randy wants to know, your your favorite personal moment. Our memory with Jane, so not necessarily something that was on the air just something between the two. Well, I'll tell you what it was actually something that was on the air because it was we did a special for USA network. And the the last line of the show Vincent had wanted the line to be that Sargent slaughter was greatest natural leader since the the great general Sodom Hussein. And Oakland was like fuck you. I'm not gonna do it. I'm not going to be out there. When somebody does it gene didn't want to be a part of that angle in any way, shape or form Sogenal, and I did it. And we were we doing it. And we had like one take don't think it was live, and it may have been, but it was very last segment of the show very last bit of the show and in his brother love, I did it with Jean and Jean knew exactly where I was. Going and he was like basically you son of a bitch. You got me. And I got the line right afterwards. That's that was his lying. Son of a bitch. You got me. Thank God, we weren't out there. But I did it because it was back sage gene was just that was one that he was scare full of the whole angle was slaughter and everything I join working with, gene. Well, let's let's keep moving. Here got tons of fun questions here. Tom wants to know what was the best advice or lesson than verge? Learn from Maine, Jane. Wow. Get it done. Do what you have to do to get it done when the world's crumbling all around you. There's shit to be done get it done. And that was something that I learned I would panic sometimes when I got there early on. I didn't know what to do because of all the different personalities round me. So I would I would start to try to please everybody. Jane took me off to the side. One day and says Bros. Do what's in front of me and get it done? This is what we have to do right now. Let's get this done worry about all the other shit later. I think that kind of sticks right up there. He he and grill. Monsoon both helped me so much in that way. Charlie wants to know did gene regret going WCW. I don't know. I don't think so Heli had a good run there. I don't think so at all. Sean wants to know what was jeans drink of choice, vodka MARTINI. Robert wants to know who's the wasn't for him to always wear tuxedo. The WF that was something. Vince, always did early on E wanted all of his announcers and commentators stand out. We're tuxes be classy. Devin wants to know do they ever considered giving Jane of piper's pit style show? No that wasn't jeans. Rowley was Jane was the neutral guy that wouldn't have worked. Jay wants to did Bruce ever have main gene burger can't say ever had the pleasure. Abba mean Jean burger? Ryan wants to know nothing salacious spammed the list, but any funny manging party stories. I gotta tell you feel like main Jane would be the best guy ever to have a party. Well, he is any was the life of the party. And like, I said, you know, I think that the fun times. How funny was gene always was the life of the party, whether he was telling jokes, whether he was at the end of the piano singing in that that was gene Oakland was. Just a lot of fun. Last question here. This one's from Robert Collins, what was gene Oakland like in real life. What you see is what you get in many respects. But he could also be very very reflective one of the nicest guys that I've ever had the pleasure working with one of the most talented individuals ever in the business because I just had confidence in him, and I trusted him as well. And he never let me down in that regard. So. So summit all up. He was good father. And he was just a really really good, man. And there's not a lot of that out there. And I think that gene fits in that category. Without question. The greatest to ever do it the best that ever did it Maine's in Oakland. You'll be missed. We appreciate you guys. Taking time to join us here on the show, celebrating the life and times the great gene for Linden. Hope you'll be back next week. We're back to our regular scheduled programing will hit Royal rumble nineteen ninety nine next week. But in the meantime, let's let's relive some more Mangena memories. And we'll put some videos on YouTube and Facebook and everywhere we can celebrate the great life made. You know, we'll see next week right here. Something wrestle first pitcher.

Gene gene Jean gene Oakland wrestling Jane Oakland Vince Jesse Ventura WWF hulk HOGAN Awa Bobby Heenan gene Raslan Minneapolis Vern ganja Howard Finkel gene Kerner Verne Ricky steamboat
WKPWP - Keller interviews historian George Schire; (5-7-15) Eye-witness details on emotional Verne Gagne funeral, amends made, more

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

WKPWP - Keller interviews historian George Schire; (5-7-15) Eye-witness details on emotional Verne Gagne funeral, amends made, more

"One of the great benefits comes with a VIP membership is access to our unmatched library of pro wrestling torch newsletter back issues in the late nineteen eighties and nineteen ninety s before the internet pro wrestling was documented in print newsletters contemporaneous. Sleep packing a week's worth of news and results and Qa interviews with some progress in Vegas newsmakers in the pages of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter when you become a VIP member you instantly gain access on our W. Torch visit our website to year-by-year listing of all fifty plus back issues from every year. Dating back to the late nineteen eighties through today and every week we update the format of our twenty years ago back issues with PDF text format makes it easier to read on your phone or your tablet and the latest twenty years ago back issue. You postings have been a fascinating time in the pro wrestling industry going back to the April first two thousand issue the cover story headlined BISCHOFF AND RUSSO. Given a second chance the opening line of the cover story. Wcw needed a big shakeup because status quo was leading them. Down Hill. Fast Eric. Bischoff and Vince Russo. To contributors to the problems W W as having had been brought back as a team to save WCW. And there's an end up cover story on that along with a lot of other news in that issue including a feature column by Bruce Mitchell and my preview of Wrestlemainia and then we march through April. The next headline was Wrestlemania. Two thousand triple h retains the title. The next week the cover story is on the re launch of nitro. After W W took a week off plus a cover sidebar reports on E. CW champion. Mike Awesome attempt to jump to WCW without dropping the E C W title. I and part one of my torch talk interview with Lance Storm. And then the April twenty second issue opens with a cover story on nitro crashing ratings. After just two weeks of through so and Eric Bischoff in charge. Plus a feature editorial that I wrote regarding Russo's booking style and my end notorial on the Russo Hogan dynamic plus coverage of W. W spring stampede. And more so when you go. Vip get access to dive depth on those twentieth anniversary issues or any era. You want to read about whether it's the mid nineties or just three four five years ago so go. Vip full details at POW TORCH DOT COM SLASH GOBI IP. That's P W torch dot com slash Kgo. Vip I know a lot of your diving into wwe network archives and watching old content on different streaming services while. There's no better companion when you do that. Then reading our coverage in the pro wrestling torch weekly newsletter dating back to the late nineteen eighties. Bring up our match report. Our Star ratings are news coverage of that era or just settle in and read fascinating interviews with some pro wrestling's biggest names in their longest form interviews talking about the inner workings of the wrestling industry before there were podcasts with wrestlers hosting and talking about such things the torch talk series was the only place you could go for long form interviews with pro wrestling's newsmakers torch dot com slash Kgo. Vip in times like these in times. Like these I think you'll get more out of VIP membership than ever so check it out now. Pw Torture and spreaker bring you the wade. Keller pro wrestling podcast. It's time for this week's interview classic. Where Wade killer interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers five years ago? One of pro wrestling's longest running most successful promoters and world champion wrestlers. Vern Ganja died. He founded ran a headlined. The Awa the American Wrestling Association which was the one of the top three brands of the pro wrestling territory. Days along with the NWEA and w. w. w. f. and I was joined last week by Awa announcer mic Karsh and Awa wrestler Kenny. Sod Buster J who also did yard work for Ghana thus the name sod buster and this week on interview classic. We bring you my interview with George Shire Wrestling Author and historian mild co host on the pro wrestling focus. Radio shows back on Back in the early nineties on. Kfi and he attended the Burn Ganja funeral and he gave eyewitness details on the emotional funeral including details on Gene Oakland. Ganja giving speeches amends being made and much more plus he just gave his perspective on Verne. Ganja with some great memories and stories so enjoy. This partout are look back at the highly influential hugely successful and controversial. Vern gone if you don't know the history professional wrestling vern Ganja someone you need to know about and so Last week showing this week show or really good primers and if you are a longtime fan you familiar with vern. I think you're gonNA thoroughly enjoy. The stories will add some color and detail to his career both on camera and behind the scenes. Welcome to the W. Torch live cast. I Wade Keller editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter since nineteen eighty seven and also P W torch dot com a pro wrestling website updated with news commentary live TV and paper result specialist columns history editorials and so much more book market. Check it out every day customized for your desktop your laptop your smartphone and your tablet. That's PC TORCH DOT com. I'm also host of this. Dpw towards live cast on Tuesdays and Thursdays this show is available live and on demand at P W torch live cast dot com. We are on five days a week through Friday and also Sundays after major pay per views. Join US Monday at eleven thirty Eastern about twenty minutes after rock includes for a live call in post show with People Your Torch Dot Com assistant editor James Caldwell and often joined by Greg Parks at the top of the show for some instant. Ron nalysts on Fridays. The old Monday Kruger's Mitchell and Travis Bryant from East Coast Cast Dot Com are now hosting on Friday starting at seven eastern so in the of the week Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday run at five THIRTY EASTERN TO THIRTY PACIFIC. Time live on Mondays right after Robert. Twenty minutes after raw and on Fridays at seven eastern. That's our new lineup. As of just over a month ago and we've had some really good feedback to it so far so Things everybody for that. I have switched interview Friday to interview Thursday and I am pleased to introduce my guest a returning guest here at cw towards live task for interview. Thursday and that is wrestling author and historian. George George. Welcome back to the program. Hey wait it's always good to be on with you. How you doing my friend. I'm doing very well You YOU and I go back I'll even further than what I'm about to say. But you were the CO host of my progress and focus radio show on. Kfi Am for a long time in the early nineties. And you have since. Come out with a A wrestling book titled Minnesota's Golden Wrestling From Virgin Ganja to the road warriors and people can find that book at bookstores and online Online booksellers George the first wrestling name. You mentioned who's going to be the major focus of today's program and that is Burn Ganja and we welcome phone calls from people interested in talking about Awa. History in particular version gone yet. But we can broaden that out. George Shire is an encyclopedia of knowledge. I'm not sure if people don't what encyclopedias are anymore George Wicked he's a Wikipedia of knowledge and then some And we don't WANNA be. I don't WanNa be a wikipedia because that's not always a correct source so that's I like encyclopedia. I like encyclopedia. We'll stick with that quote antiquated term. I said something about newspapers on facebook the other day. And somebody jokingly said what's the newspaper so It is crazy but George I know it's been a emotional week for people who have followed Wrestling pro wrestling in Not only the Minneapolis. Saint Paul area. We're in Ganja was from and are the Powerful territory the AWA was headquartered but also People who just newburgh ninety from all the different territories and all the different he wrestled including heck headlining Madison Square Garden and I saw that you quoted in the New York Times about during Ganja when they wrote their obituary on Verne and also you were interviewed on WSB radio which I listened to live and am institution in this market What kind of What kind of sense did you get of the media reaction over the last week and a half to do you think that the scope of his impact on this community and really the wrestling industry has has been honored by an in acknowledged in the ways that you think it would have after he died? Well you know Wade you mentioned like The New York Times and you mentioned You know the radio shows and things like that and I I guess what I noticed is as I went online and looked at the various newspapers around the country that were covering stories on Ganja and I mean we're talking the Boston Globe and the La Times and as we said the New York Times Chicago. I mean it just seemed that The passing of Verne Ganja really had an impact and for me. Personally I guess when I looked back no I would never say that Verne. Ganja was one of my personal favorite wrestlers through the decades but I respect that the man and I always always enjoyed every match. She was in and when I realized in heard that he had finally passed away. I had that feeling that. Oh my gosh this is the man. This is the one wrestler that has been around my entire life. Since the day I I became cognizant of pro wrestling which wage you know goes for me back to about the mid fifties when I was six seven years old and so it was. It was just a realization that like a piece of me and I think that's where it came from from a lot of people around the country that had been around forever. Like I am that this was the one man you know this was before the crushers and mad dogs and everybody and Burn Ganja had passed away and you know we should point out to folks that furnace has had a tough eight or ten years. He has been sick. He has Had been dealing with the dementia and Alzheimer's I have talked with Greg Ganja. Probably once a month for the past seven years and we kept in contact and always it was interesting about. You know how Verne was doing and the struggles I tell you what the struggles that the family had and it was very apparent and I think we can talk about this as we go on our show today but I attended both of the visitation for Vernon this past Monday night and then I also attended the memorial service and funeral at the church on Tuesday. And I tell you this and anybody that was there knows I'm telling hundred percent truth here. There was not a dry in that church during the service. Yeah everyone every wrestler. That was there every fan. That was there every friend of the family that was there. They were wiping away. Tears at various times during the Emotional videos that were being played during the service during the The family sharing personal things about them as a family and vern a wrestler. And then both Greg Ganja who delivered a Eulogy. Greg broke up several times and then the eulogy at the end. I mean Jean Oakland and they brought. They brought the church to tears. I mean I sat behind Tell you sat behind. Jim Brownsville His wife Mary I sat with them. Were Paul ellery. Steve Olson now ski? They were wiping away. Tears literally wiping away tears and as as was everyone it was it was extremely and as I walked out of there after the service we had a great dinner of course luncheon like they always do at funerals but we had a great luncheon and as I was walking out. I said to my wife. I said you know then to a lot of funerals in my life family friends. I mean we all attempt to animals and all of us have our reasons for being sad and memories that we share of our own when we go to these such things. But I said I've never been to a funeral that for me just as a person because wrestling Wade as you know has been my whole life. It is who I am I am. I am bonafide wrestling every single day of my life and it was just I I. The words escaped me as to the emptiness that I felt that. Burn Ganja the man who gave us everything that we had in the fifties the sixties the seventies and into the eighties and yes. It didn't end well for the AWA and wrestling changed. We all know that but burn. Ganja he was the name he was the name audible is offering listeners of this podcast. A free edition of Jim. Ross under the black hat or for that matter any book title of Your Choosing in their vast collection of thousands and thousands of if you go to audible dot com slash wade or text. Wade do five hundred dash five hundred. That's right Jim is under. The black cat came out just a couple of weeks ago available to you right now for free in his new book. He goes into detail that I haven't heard before there's one point pretty early in the book where he says I'd call the damned flair versus steamboat trilogy. And now I was trying to get punch holes to line up in the stupid paper on my stupid desk. I wanted to be on the Front Lines. Not Behind a desk. Go check out the new Jim. Ross memoir of his time in. Wwe with some great stories from years and years ago and more recently. That's under the black hat at audible DOT COM SLASH. P W torch now. It's not just pro wrestling books. And it's not just books. Audible is much more than audiobooks. They have podcasts. Guided wellness programs theatrical performance. A-list comedy an exclusive audible originals. You won't find anywhere else. There are thousands of titles in fact. If you listen everything on audible you'd be listening for more than three centuries to catch up. Of course you could dial up your narrations beaten. Maybe cut it down to a century and a half anyway. Audible helps people get more stories and information through the gift of found time it allows people to listen while commuting cooking exercising gardening or relaxing at home a recent Pew study found that twenty seven percent of adult say. They haven't read a single book in the past year. Up from nineteen percent in two thousand eleven lack of time being the main reason. So why not listen to your books and then you can tell your friends. How many books you read this year. One of the non wrestling titles. I'm listening to right now as catch and kill by Ronan Farrow about the Harvey Weinstein situation and It it's a fascinating look behind the scenes at Power and corruption and denial Within a news organization and the frustration that he had within NBC News. Trying to get this story out. It's it's a well told story it's fascinating and kind of chilling also. I'm listening to an Alfred. Hitchcock biography of watching some old Alfred Hitchcock movies in recent weeks as I've had more time at home in less time away from home and I wanted to learn more about him and the movie he made. Whatever interests you this month Audibles got a book that will let you do a deep dive into it or just be entertained. An escape so again go to audible dot com slash wade or text weighed to five hundred dash. Five hundred every month members. Get One credit to pick any title plus to audible originals from a monthly selection and access to Daily News Digests From The Times Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post as well as guided meditation programs. And that's important for a lot of people right now. We're living in a time right now where there's a lot of unknowns and a lot of routines that have been broken and it can shake us up a little bit. Some guided. Meditation. Might help. This might be the time to check that out in audible his way to do that. So go to audible dot com slash wade or text. Way To five hundred dash five hundred George. We normally have the opposite Challenge with guests. You have such a great radio voice and are so great. A projecting yourself for getting a little over modulation. I usually tell people talk more into the Mike. Maybe for you. I'm not sure what kind of phone you're on talk a little less the Mike Mike. Clear up a little bit of the over modulation static. We're getting we're just dealing with a brand new hifi switchboard this week and I want people to hear what you're saying really well and I that that is just bill to bring us into The emotions of that moment and to share that with us is really special. And and I really do appreciate you doing that. we set the scene a little bit. George for the visitation and the funeral in terms of The the scope of it. How many people were there? Did it seem like a a big public event? More of a private Kinda give people listening to this idea. 'cause I mean Ganja for decades and I'm not exaggerating George we're not we are not Embellishing for the sake of of trying to build this up. Vern was a celebrity institution who was pretty much unmatched in this city. Or I should say unmatched 'cause Harmon killebrew. Bud Grant there's other people in you. You live through it. I was a kid. You can speak to it better than I can. But from the in the sixties and seventies especially vern there was nobody bigger in this town member. Well you know way. That was something that I had pointed out to some of the media folks that I spoke with last week. You you mentioned that you had caught on guessing. That was the John Williams show and I was on with Roisi and Sushi Cherie and John Heinz and and You know the deal was vern. Ganja was you know and you mentioned Harmon killebrew. If you went back to the sixties and the seventies here in the twin cities area the Minnesota area fern Ganja was as big a celebrity as Harmon killebrew as Fran Tarkenton as bud grant and when you when you looked at the media back in that day earn Ganja was all of the the major functions that these other Sports celebrities and stars were at and so he was very recognizable. And you know the thing. That's really interesting. Raid is that you can talk to non wrestling fans and they've heard of Verne. Ganja they know who've earn gone you're was they may not have watched wrestling. They may not have cared for wrestling but they knew who earn. Kanye was when I walked into the church. The Church Service on the visitation was held at the Pax Christi Community Church in Eden Prairie Catholic Church and when I walked in there on Monday night the family had put together a nice Ray Of photos and framed pictures of Verne's career. There were several Videos going wrestling and interviews and different things that Verne was talking. Burn himself talking and it was just a feeling of run guy was in that building and people of all ages were immediately reliving a lot of their lives. I I looked at. I looked at the age groups Fans are friends and all of them were telling their own story of how they knew. Burn whether it'd be as a personal friend fishing partner a business partner. They all had their stories. They remembered their favorite match. They all remembered when he wrestled this guy or that guy and they all called the sleeper hold and there was rumblings of jurists the vitamin supplement that Verne Sold in the Or you know in the sixties and people want to his diner power and you know it was. It was almost as you walk through the church. area you just kept hearing all these little different things and you know me as a as a follower of wrestling for the last six decades whatever it is. I found myself just being a mask in all my gosh you know. And of course I've got a zillion in one stories about Vernon and the the thrills that he brought. You know me as a fan and it was interesting. Know when you look at your staff all of the people there and you asked me about whether or not it was fans or friendlier. Our family there were there were obviously just dozens and dozens and dozens of friends of the family. And they're going to pay on yes. I didn't I didn't notice as many what I would call the You know the average fan that maybe just attended some wrestling carts here and there. It appeared by what I heard. And what I've seen of those that were there and that you know as we go on we can talk about some of the people that I I knew. Were there recognized but they were all The way it was set up to they had I guess you'd call it a receiving line for lack of a better terminology. Greg God bless him. He stood down by the Church Altar and with with you at various points around the altar where his family his sisters Donna Kathy and Greg's Sons were there and his daughter his wife and as the friends and family were walking through and passing through next to Greg was the the The Awa world title belt and vern or I'm sorry greg he literally spent. I was there for three hours on Monday night. And Greg stood down there the entire three hours and talked and hugged and shared stories about Verne. His Dad and it was very emotional. Because Greg was literally the whole night just on. Monday night Wiping away tears as where his his sisters and you know it was. It was a funeral. That was a service like like. I said I've I've never been to one like this It was just. You felt your thought. Such you felt such a eerie feeling. Bit this was a big piece of I for lack of a better word your whole life. Everybody's whole life and I you know like when you go to a normal funeral if you attend a funeral of a friend or a coworker or maybe a cousin or an uncle or or GRANDPA. Yeah we all have our moments that we remember and they meant something to us but we're not connected to the other people a lot of times that are at these events at these services but at the gone. Yeah Service. Every single person there was formally and there were so many things that caught your eye. You know I wanNA share this one right up front. 'cause I don't WanNa Forget. This need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling. Podcasts will come join me out for over in the progress Paradise Appear Torch. Vip AS WE BOSC on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and chose from around the world be the US Japan Europe or Mexico. There's always a place. Residence passed in the paradise to. And we've done fun. Historical shows such as the we love ligers series celebrating glorious career of Jewish and thunder. Like I was there when shows where guests will join me to talk about a classic boat that they were in attendance for we love variety and you can expect lots of it at the pro progress. Paradise detailed. Pdf TORCH VIP subscription information on a list of all VIP benefits is available at Piero Torch Vip Info Dot Com and yes all AP Alcazar compatible with popular podcast APPs on iphone and android devices or you can stream them directly from ad free. Vip Mobile Site C in the paradise. All right let's go back to George. He is the author of Minnesota's Golden Age of wrestling from Burn Ganja so the road warriors and we are talking to George my former co host for the pro focus radio show back in early ninety. S on Kfi. We're talking to George about vern. Ganja he attended The Verne Ganja funeral this week and he is sharing some of those personal details with us. George sorry about having you call back. I appreciate you giving that a shot. Sometimes phone connections can be inconsistent so. Welcome back. And thanks for doing that. Hey No problem and if it still is not as good as we'd like it I guess we just have to deal with the technology as it is exactly yeah It's always good giving it a shot but yeah please. You had a story. You didn't WanNa Forget. I don't want you to forget it either. Well you know. I looked around the church. And you know obviously it's impossible sometimes for every single person that would want to attend a funeral to be able to circumstances and and things that are going on but it was too very interesting Big and I mean really nice. Flower arrangements with Nice banners on them were present and one of them was the first one that I didn't want to forget to tell about. Because you know I'm GonNa tell you something myself and a lot of people. There are times when we can bash the WWE and Vince McMahon. For the way wrestling changed us. Old School. Guys you know we. We didn't like that but it is what it is today but there was a beautiful message and flower arrangement from the Mcmahon family and from Stephanie and triple H and it had a very nice message on it With condolences in sincerest sympathy. Who Greg gone yet and the entire family and a very nice message on it saying thank you for sharing your father. Thank you for all he gave to wrestling thank you for his contribution and paving the road for professional wrestling and I just I looked at that and I thought you know that is very very nice with that. I want to add what Greg Gone. You told me personally A Saturday a week ago. He said that As soon as vern had passed away The WWE had put up the announcement and they immediately. Stephanie McMahon gave a call to greg personally and advised him that if there was anything that the McMahon family could do to assist him with any photos or footage or anything that all he had to do was ask and they were there to help him. In this time and so- Greg was very relieved with that and I was very relieved with that and I thought that was a very very nice gesture. We should point out that the reason of course is that Vince does own all video rights and and everything to the Awa so it was very kind and I thought very nice that they did that and Greg seemed really happy with it and he told me more than once that Stephanie McMahon personally had had been more than generous in calling and letting them know that they were there for him if he they needed anything. That's really great to hear I mean it really is because that and you do hear good stories about Stephanie McMahon. I've there's been some stories that they did not publicize About some some going above and beyond when it comes to some charity work and some special needs fans at buildings The wwe. I give them hard time because sometimes it seems like they utilize their charity work to build or corporate brands. Something Stephanie has maybe Gone too far publicly bragging about even you know that charity builds brand brand equity but they do do things behind the scenes that they do not seek out publicity for and and just doing what you just described is It's really nice. I'm glad you share that story because They don't have to be. They don't have to go that far. They could've sent flowers nothing else. Or you know well and the other thing to Wade. The other thing too was that they did There was video footage mentioned to you earlier. There were several Big Screen TV's in the lobby The in the church itself and they had video different video going in there. Were there were those that were definitely provided by Stephanie McMahon or by you know triple h triple h did side did sign the cards and the flowers. You know his real. I could never pronounce his real last name. What's his last leveque? Yup Leveque and was signed by Paul triple h Leveque Stephanie McMahon and but they they definitely were very kind to do that and I and I also will point out that Greg mentioned to me that upon vern staff that on the WWe blog I guess he was told that the Verne Ganja passing had had gotten more hits than any other thing that the wwe had going on all last week. Wow so I think that also gives the scope to you. Know some of the power in recognition. That Verne gone. You had before I forget about the other arrangement that I wanted to to share with you. Because as I'm thinking of these things I wanNA share all the highlights. Yes there was another there was another and I wanna say really big because a lot of people will send a flower arrangement to a funeral and and that such always such a nice gesture and it's always comforting to the family of of the one that's left us but this was a very very nice big arrangement that was sent and on the card. And you and and I'm gonNA explain to you. What was on the flowers after we tell you what was on the card card to Greg? Ganja and the gun. Your family was from Terry and Jessie Ventura and on the card. It said. Thank you for all you did for me. You gave me the name of the body. You with the legend and it was signed Terry and Jessie Ventura and on the bowl pay on the huge bow K. We're talking things of flowers. This one along with the McMahon one that I just spoke of they were on huge stands that they had to take special space for an arm that Torah arrangement. There was a huge banner across the flowers that sat legend it was. It was very eye catching and very very nice. And I don't know if Jesse you may note wait. I don't know I don't know if Jesse is currently living in Minnesota. Here you know he was not at the funeral of course but He definitely paid homage to burn With that arrangement and I thought that was extremely nice. Some of pro wrestling's best podcasts are. 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And then Jesse Ventura and then Greg Ganja and then burn gone all called him and even with the problems and differences that they had with each other With bobby leaving Because you got a basically doubled his salary to go to the WWF during the expansion years and it was a real blow to the AWA that is upset as maybe Vernon Greg worth time That you know tw- you know closer to twenty years later They were kind enough and gracious enough and let bygones be bygones in that way and and called him and And and he said that even stopped by a while later and surprise bobby and they hugged and and told him wally carbs stories and had shared some good memories. I did not catch that ad so I must have cut off at that. Point weighed but you know the story that you tell of those guys that as I had mentioned that the McMahon's and Jesse Ventura had sent their condolences and sympathy. To The guy is Ganja family during this time with Verne passing. It's not unusual to hear that because you know if what a lot of fans don't realize you know because the stories go rampant to how things happened with the The raids of the territories and things of the days when McMahon was doing expansion. A lot of stuff is true. A lot of stuff isn't it's a matter of trying to set it straight. But you know Bobby Heenan did give a personal notice to Verne. Ganja and he did so in in the way that he he realized that Verne had been his his His employer for a lot of years and he went to earn personally to Vernon Greg and he. He advised them that he had received offer the offer from the WWF at the time and that he was going to accept it and yeah there were there. Were some hard feelings. I'm sure and there were some anger and things you know normal things that are involved but in the end Jim Brown Zell. Who I also I would point out. I talked to Jim. Occasionally and of course I had a chance to see him at the service the other day and Jim and Bobby Heenan have stayed in constant contact over the last twenty years and Jim has also been down visit Bobby and his wife Cindy and so you know the wrestling community the wrestling fraternity of the old school age and it was always a very close knit group. Despite certain feelings and things that would happen along the way because business always causes problems with any company and You know that was obviously the same with wrestling. But they've stayed in. Yeah if I may While we're telling stories of of some of the People that were at the funeral I WANNA point out when we talk about feelings and different things that happened in the business side of things over the years. I don't think it's any secret out. There that burn gone yet and largely. Hennig had outside the ring issues throughout their careers right We will point out as a base for some fans who don't know that it was vern. Ganja who trained Larry? Hennig for the pro ranks back in the Mid Fifties. Larry basically worked with all but all trips to other territories. Larry working career in the AWA. That said And I want to also stop here and say that Larry. Hennig is one of my dearest friends in this wrestling business. We also talk often and he is one of my favorite people he really is. He's a gentleman of guy. He's an absolutely great family man and and I just I admire him extensively however with all due respect to Larry. I've always felt that whenever Larry had the opportunity and got a microphone in front of him he would take that opportunity to throw a jab or two or three at vern. Ganja and make it seem like vern Ganja was the worst human being on the planet earth and with all due respect the Larry. I always felt that was probably in many cases not the right place to do it at different functions and that sort of thing because if they had legitimate beef behind the scenes I I always felt that was between them. But I will tell you this Larry. Hennig was at the service and Larry and I was there and heard him personally. Say this he said there comes a time when we have to let it pass and without run. Ganja. There would've been no Larry Hennig. Wow Wow and Larry. Was THERE HIS WIFE. Irene was there and they are. I WanNa say this again because if by chance They would listen to this or anyone that listens to this. I want them to know that I have nothing. But the utmost respect for Larry Hennig and he is one of my all time favorite wrestlers He was along with Harley. Race is one of my favorite tag teams of all time and Larry is as a wrestler. There was nothing that man couldn't do. He could have been a main event star in any territory in the country had he wanted to. Larry chose to stay close to home and I mentioned a minute ago. What a family man he was. I've I've been a guest at Larry's home in Saint Cloud and when you walk in his home it is evident that his twenty six grandchildren and great grandchildren and his his own kids. That he has they are all over his home in photos and memories and mementos and and Larry loves his family and we all know what a toll it took on Larry. When Kurt passed away his son. Kurt passed away A decade or so ago and we also know how proud Larry is of Johannes who is currently with the wwe wrestling as Curtis Axel. Larry is a very proud man in a very good man. But he did have an issue with Verne Ganja and he buried that and came to the service and it was very humbling. And Larry. You could see that You know get it meant something to him so I wanted to share that too because we hear things about people from time to time and and You know Larry and as I said two I want to point out that Larry with all the talent and his great Mike Skills and everything is a wrestler. I don't think there's any doubt that if Larry had wanted to move around the country and be a big star another territory. Back in the sixties or the seventies. He could have and because chose to stay here. That's why it bothers me or it. Bothered me over the years when he would take a shot at vern every shot every time he had an opportunity. He took Verne's money burn. Put Him on top vern. Never buried Larry Hennig in the cards Larry was his main event or so they both took you know they both took from each other and benefited and for me that you know having worked in the business world myself weighed you know. Employees have a choice. You don't like your boss or you don't like your company or you don't like the principles of the company. You always have the right to move on. And if you don't do that don't be little. Don't tear them down. Don't beat him up because you've chosen to stay there and that's what I want to say about that. But Larry was a big man and he is a great man and I love the man and It was nice to see him there. Have you subscribed to the torch daily cast yet? It's a free daily podcast with shows throughout the week dedicated to ring of honor. All elite wrestling impact wrestling major league wrestling and x t and M may talk for pro wrestling fans. That's Monday through Friday and on Saturdays. Check out the deep dive with Rich Fan where he examines a single topic in-depth and then Sunday nights. It's wrestling night in America with Greg Parks. You can listen. Live or download the show later at torch daily CAST DOT COM. Just click on the live stream link. He takes your calls talking about wrestling's biggest events either ones that just took place or previewing shows that are right around the corner and on Sundays when wwe runs pay per views. He's live right after the pay per view at W. Torch daily cast dot com reviewing the show. And taking your calls. That's the torch daily castle light up just search. Pw Torch in Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your wrestling podcasts. Or visit our home page to download or stream the show or find out more information. Pw Torch daily CAST DOT COM. Do you have any idea what kind of category it fell into that. That the dispute between because I heard George that Larry was one of the last people to who significant people in Verne's business and personal life to not forgive him tonight or I don't forgiveness is a word you don't even have to forgive somebody to let to to just say. Hey there's this new chapter that's the past that we have a Lotta history together and it seemed like most people. It's not all major names. Who dealt with and to some degree or another able to do that and he wasn't what. What was the wrist in general or specifically if you know well? I've heard many versions Wade through the years that I've heard Larry. Talk about it and I heard Greg Ganja talk about it and I guess at this point I'm just GonNa say that they had. They had some I. I don't WANNA use the word bad blood between them but they had some feelings and it seemed to linger on and you know for the ten years eight or ten years. I mean with all due respect to Verne. Ganja he has not been in a position to voice any opinion or anything because Verne has as we said earlier had suffered from Alzheimer's. And you know when I when I heard from Greg all these different times and Greg tell me how they're dealing with Verne and and how difficult it is. When he doesn't know who he is. He doesn't remember anything he doesn't remember photos. He doesn't remember the family. He doesn't remember when he ate. I mean Alzheimer's. Oh my God wade if there is a bad disease and something that could take a toll on anybody who loves someone A family and everything I mean that has to be it and Greg you know and then so I don't I don't really want to go into all of it. Because a lot of them are stories. A lot of them are are things that he said she said and I just don't. I'm not going to do that in the end I saw greg. Let me point this out. Greg has no issue with Larry Hanoch. Yeah Greg does not and Larry and Greg they hugged. They talked Not only the funeral here. But I've seen them at some other functions in fact I just saw grabbed Ganja and Larry Hennig at the Kenny. J annual benefit for his psychosis this past April fourth. And and and Larry. We're talking in fact they were sitting next to each other at the The Gimmick table signing photos and that sort of thing and They were there fine so keep whatever it was less. I think it's best we leave at. Larry made his amends and A lot of it maybe was just Larry carrying on because he had some feelings that he felt were never never settled. But I think I think Larry settled them for himself the other day George little three years ago and made a public appearance. I think it was. I think it was his last public appearance at the airing of the wrestler movie. Yes was was that. Was that the last time. He made any kind of public appearances celebrity. To the best of my knowledge. It was and I was there that afternoon when when Beth Ganja Verne's daughter Beth and her husband will they were the caretakers for Verne for the past While about seven years And they had brought vern to that event and he was introduced. And you know we you had to know Verne Ganja if you introduced him and you got him in front of a crowd. He had that charismatic smile and that twinkle in his eye and he raised his hands and he acknowledged crowd but he did not know a lot of people. That were there that evening or that afternoon at that wrestler airing Three years ago and one of the people that he talked with what's Dick John Kaczynski and he did not know who Dick John Kaczynski was and there were others that came up to burn and he asked him you know. And who are you and they would tell them. And you know Vernon number friends at business. Together and burn did know but they. It was a brief appearance. They pretty much sheltered him to take care of him and not to get fans in his face or anything like that and you know that was. I think that was his last appearance. We're about to go to another commercial break. Why are you listening to commercial breaks? Why deal with these interruptions when you can become a VIP member support the weight? Keller pro wrestling podcast. Wait Tiller progressing. Post shows the piddly torch daily casts in the entire team and everything that we do and get a ton of return for your membership by becoming a VIP member go to Pw Torch V. I. P. Info Dot Com for full details. Thirty plus years of Archives of podcasts. Retro Radio Shows Over Sixteen hundred back issues of progressing towards weekly newsletter fascinating march through our coverage of wrestling history and so much more including ad free versions of the week. Podcast wait till the post shows. Npws daily casts and several exclusive VIP podcast just about every day dozens of VIP exclusive. Podcast that you're not hearing because you're not to be members so go. Vip PW TORCH VIP INFO DOT COM. Subscribe TO OUR PODCAST. Feed and listen in a streamlined. Way With no interruptions to all of our podcasts again. That's torch VIP INFO DOT COM. And you know the other thing I want to touch on there was one. You WanNa talk about all the newspaper coverage in the media coverage this past week with Verne's passing it was very very positive all the way around about the impact. And the and what Verne Ganja meant mental wrestling and to people and to family and what is affect was on the business. I came across one and I'm not even going to give them the liberty of saying which site it was but there was one site that took it upon themselves to bring up and just be labor. The fact that Verne Ganja was involved in that Horrific here seven years ago at the nursing home where Gentleman actually died. A fellow. Inmate are made that the nursing home had passed away after a skirmish with Verne and they took it upon themselves to leave that as the lasting memory and I thought it was the most sickening thing I've ever seen and that was the only References I'd seen made to it in the various newspaper articles and news stories that I listened to and watched and I thought it was very distasteful. And that's another thing Weighed that when you talk about vern. Ghana's legacy there have been many many many stories that have circulated around to what happened at that nursing home and what really happened and what is said to have happened. And what is exaggerated to set to be? Set has happened are all different and it's really sad that someone would be distasteful last week and bring that up. It was something that got talked about because it was the last big news story that Verne was involved in and unfortunately You know I think as as Greg Ganja was quoted as saying it ended up You know the store ended up being grossly exaggerated in terms of earns role in that incident. George and I think you know to to to think that that should be something that is talked about as one of the last things that people remember about vern wind. The idea that one you know actually had any malice or any awareness of what was happening and to have that story even mentioned at this point you know. I don't know I think Greg said it. Well when he was kind of dismissive about it and just said to say his role in that was grossly excessive to say. His role was exaggerated in that Would be a fair statement. There was grossly exaggerated and I would point out too that the the very day after that event happened. Greg Ganja came to my home and we were talking over some things and Greg brought out the whole thing of the day before and what had happened and Greg gave me his version and that never changed. That version never changed. And the family of the gentleman that died sadly They never had any malice towards vern. Ganja or the situation and Greg. His main thing was that at the time the event took place. There were some news stations. That took it upon themselves to make it a big story because of the celebrity status of Verne at the time. Or you know in the past and Verne never aware that he had even shelved this man he was and so that is that is gone. It's over but the bottom line was One site last week took it upon themselves to make that the story and even went so far is to say and again. I'm not going to repeat who this was. Because they don't deserve it but it was so sad that one of the lines in their their story was that to call Vern Gonyea. A celebrity put them in status after that horrific incident. It was uncalled for. You know and I. I just looked at it and I went. Oh my God. This might be the worst thing I've ever read in my life and I I was angry at the point but then I thought I waste. Why Waste Your anger on the stupidity of some people who just don't have any couth at all and that's really what it comes down to. Every Sunday night catch wrestling night in America on. Pw Torch Daily Cass Dot Com hosted by me PWG columnist Greg Parks each week. I'll welcome a CO host from the torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling taking your calls and e mails. You can listen. Live most weeks beginning at eight. Pm Eastern on Sunday nights with a wwe or impacts pay per view. We go on the air at the conclusion of that paper view. You can listen. Live but of course. The full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs visit. Pw Torch daily Dot Com and click the livestream linked to find the next scheduled. Live show link search. Pw Torture Apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe wrestling night in America every Sunday. Twa Torch Daily CAST DOT COM. Can you live non wrestling locals that I if you know if any that you recognize two came out on a lot of rain contemporaries From his days at the country club and and Being a darling in so charismatic and so involved and local charities Have died somewhere a lot older than him. And sometimes you don't get him all you list some Did you recognize any Non Wrestling people who did show up to pay their respects. Well you know I gotTa tell you. There were people that I did recognize her. I thought I recognized but I wasn't sure and again I will tell you. One notable celebrity that I did recognize immediately was bud grant. That's what I was hoping to hear. Rod was there and But there were several that I thought you know. Wow could that. Could that have been somebody or you know and and lot there were a lot of older folks there. Obviously you know when you speak of the age bracket and We saw a few A few canes and a few walkers and things like that so obviously there were you know longtime friends saverne and and But it was a it was when I mentioned earlier to you about the the displays and things that they had out there. They had a nice board of of pictures of Verne with various celebrities throughout his career. And you know it's interesting to note when you see a picture of Verne with Hubert Humphrey when you see a picture and these were eight by ten photos that they had On place there. There was a picture of Verne with Former president Gerald Ford. There was there. Were pictures there with Verne and The senators Durenberger and and Boss switch and there were pillaged front row at Awa exactly and there were pictures of Verne with Former boxing champion Jack Dempsey and you know different people in the media Throughout the years that burn the bandwidth and Verne was there with them. And and it you know Verne just out of SCOPE. The lady went the Lady. From The New York Times when she called and talked to me last week. She wanted to know she because she had also spoken to Greg Ganja and she wanted to know You know what the real impact was burned. And I told her I said you know Verne was the kind of guy that he H- i Remember. Vernon A kid. I remember vern the wrestler in the sixties and the seventies and he had a certain amount of we. We always use that word charisma but he had charisma that. Was you know you can speak of how Hulk Hogan took over the world with his his persona his charismatic way but in that maybe less character type wrestling world that preceded what we have evolved to today for Ganja have that charisma and when he could walk into a room and he would nobody would he would know no one in the room but within minutes he was surrounded by people and I wanNA share a story with you that Gregogna shared. Greg said that when he was growing up as a kid he said after he had well he said they had made a trip to Washington. Dc and Verne was there with Socializing with Kelvin Griffith and these people with the Washington senators at the time. So this is back. Pre nineteen sixty one and Greg said that then when the senators moved to Minnesota in sixty one. Greg said my heroes. Now this is greg talking. He said my heroes. When I was growing up I loved. Many of the players on the New York. Yankees Mickey Mantle was my favorite hero. He was my idol and he said the Yankees came to play the Minnesota twins in nineteen sixty one and said. My Dad took me into the locker room area where the Yankees were and he said I just about lost it when I saw all the Yankees coming up to Verne and asking for their picture with him and asking for photographs or to get a photograph and asking him to sign their their baller their Jersey or something and Greg said Mickey Mantle was one of them. That did this and what's up to Verne. Wanted to picture with him and talked with him. And Greg said it was then that it dawned on me. Oh my God. My Dad is an idol. My Dad big and Greg pointed that out and he said and Greg was crying when he told the story. I shouldn't say crying but you know wiping away the tears and you could hear the choke the in the voice and it was very heartwarming. And Greg told so many stories about how the family would take trips and they'd go to different towns in different cities and wherever they were people immediately recognized Verne. Ganja and Greg said that was extremely Humbling as a child growing up in a young boy searching for more great pro wrestling. Talk the join me Jason Powell hosting three weekly pro wrestling boone. Podcast each week. The latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other pro wrestling media members plus the pro wrestling boom podcast features long-form interviews with notable names in the wrestling industry subscribing to stitcher downcast and all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly at pw boom dot com once again that's W. dot com. And you know one of the things I WANNA. Share is an offsite to this wade knowing greg as I have over the years a lot of people you don't in the wrestling business and fans etcetera have taken shots at Greg. As being the only reason greg was in the business because his dad owned the company. Greg wasn't very good and Greg was this and you know those type of things. Which again are our foolish. But Greg was an extremely proud son. He he really loved his dad. I mean it was evident in every conversation I ever had with him and when you saw him at the funeral he lost his best friend and he struggled over the last seven years with all of the things that Verne has endured. And Greg said to me one time we were having lunch and he said it is so hard for me to see my dad in this in this state and he said sometimes he doesn't even know me and he says then he calls me will and I said to Greg. Well who was will who is will. He says will was one of his uncle's and he said he doesn't know who I am. And he doesn't remember said that's tough for me. And he said I. Greg actually called me one time and we talked about it and then and he said you know. He didn't know how long his dad had any said. He doesn't know how he's going to feel when he passes away and he actually said to me he says George. What am I going to say at the service when my dad passes away and I told him I said what Wild Greg. That's a powerful question because your dad is regardless of who your dad. Is You know in most normal families. Your Dad your mom they are. They are your heroes. They are your they are the very people that have made you who you are and I said you know Greg I guess what you do. Is that the time you you go up and you you say what you're going to say from your heart and I said everybody will know they will understand in Greg. What he did go up to do his part of the eulogy on Tuesday. He got up there and he start. He had a funny line that he because he had followed. And I'll go into this and the minute. He had followed me Gene Oakland. And he he made a comic. Because I'm GonNa tell you what Jean did. So you'll understand Greg's comment when I tell you the gene story but Greg's comment was I don't know how I can follow that. And you got kind of a chuckle. And then he started to tell a little bit about Vernon within seconds. He was wiping his face and he. China hit the side of the podium and he said I didn't want to do this. I didn't I thought I could get through this. You know and that's really emotional. Because here's a man I look at this to you. Got A guy like Greg Ganja. Who's been in front of a microphone all his life he. He's he knows how to to talk to an audience. He knows how to talk to a crowd. He's been in you know he's held meetings. He's been in front of the camera for wrestling and here was a man who was. This wasn't the time when he could keep it together. And so he he. He went through his eulogy and at the end of his eulogy. At of Greg's point the last thing that he said was and I even get teared up here just not when I think about it. The last thing that he said was thank you dad so long champ. Wow you know and and Greg you know it was tough for him so remind me. I want to tell you the gene. Oakland part because that was very good to go ahead. You're okay. Yeah well so after the the normal church service which I wanna say for you know. The the Catholic Church services can be They can be trying sometimes Okay so we'll just leave it at that and I was raised Catholic so they say that they can be long. They can be you know. Let can we get to the end here? I mean let's face it okay but this was a very very beautiful touching service the the priests that Bought two priests over road the service in fact as a tribute to burn the original pastor. Who had started the Ben with the Church at the very beginning? And who was a friend of the Ganja family came basically? He's like he's retired. He came out of his retirement. And came to this and delivered A Nice Homily in an attributive earn himself. So I mean I think that says something but anyway When we got to the I I WANNA point out one thing the Greg set okay. Back up Greg made the comment as he was talking. He said that he was told by the pastor that he has to Only keep this to You know under twenty minutes or thirty minutes or something and he says I want to remind him right now that this was side this was put together by Wally Carbo. And it's a ninety minute no time or no time limit event and it got a nice chuck. Yes yeah got a nice chuckle. And he brought in. Wally Carbos name there to that. In Times like these pro wrestling torch newsletter back issue section exclusively available for POW torch VIP members has become perhaps more valuable than ever so many people are looking back at old wrestling events whether it's watching great matches and great events from the past on ESPN or Fox or whether it's diving into a streaming service such as wwe network or otherwise the pro wrestling torch newsletter back issues section is a great companion. You can bring up the back issue from that date covering that event contemporaneous Lii in read our coverage of the event and find out what we thought of it. At the time you can read about the build up to the story lines you can read about the file out. Our roundtable reviews my match reports my star ratings so many wrestling's biggest events including all of WWE WWF WWe Andy CW events over the years covered in the pro wrestling torch newsletter. Back issues along with some great international event so check out. 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You WanNa talk about when we go back to People that left Vernon the Awa you know gene was one of those guys he he he started in the Awa gene got his start from Verne. Gene wouldn't Aben gene without vern if you WANNA really be technical because Verne was the one that put the suit on on Gene Oakland and made him the announcer. When Mario Neil back in the seventies was unable to unable to and wouldn't cross the picket lines for a strike and Vernon at the last minute went to Jean Oakland who was the WTN TV WTN is now care. Eleven for those that don't know but WTC on TV at the old. Calhoun Beach Hotel. Where the TV studios were and he went up to gene and bad rush right before the. All Star wrestling program was to begin and said the gene. You got a sport coat. You GotTa do the show for me and gene. He reflected that he did not know how to do wrestling and Burns said. Don't worry we're going to get through this. Just get out there and take the Mike and gene was very kind and in his Eulogy that he thinks Verne for for that. Start and all of the Celebrity that had brought him in the in the career that he you know got from it he said I wouldn't have had that without vern. Ganja and But Jeans Eulogy was a very nice tribute going through earns history where he talked about. Vernice the athlete in College. He talked a little bit about his serving our country and he talked about Vern be a new star out of college and putting the Olympics in nineteen forty eight You know he was an alternate in the Olympics and then he talked about how he came to pro wrestling and immediately which was unusual in that time period. I should point out to the it was very unusual for a wrestler to start a career and be main eventing right away in that era. It just didn't happen. Verne was the exception. So in nineteen forty nine. He immediately was a success because of his background is college. Background is amateur wrestling background and he was when the Dumont Network and gene was telling this story. You know. And I'm paraphrasing all of it right now but he talked about how the Dumont network out of Chicago was you know. Basically the the one link to the country at that point in this new medium called television and earned Ganja along with killer Kowalski and Liu says and gorgeous George and Buddy Rogers. We're but a handful of guys that every promoter in the country wanted to have on their cards and Verne was one of them. And that's one of the reasons that he became a household name. But you know gene also pointed out that Verne brought when we all know this this stuff all of us have said but gene pointed it out that Verne brought legitimate wrestling to the carnival antics that wrestling could sometimes do even back in that day and he said vern. What's the real deal and fans knew that when Verne came to the arena or his name was on the marquee that this was a wrestling match and I was seeing a real wrestler regardless of who is opponent was and Jean pointed out that that was the stardom for Verne through the fifties and when he started the Awa breaking away from the Nwea in nineteen sixty that Verne Ganja had no problem with getting sponsors for the show and you know he was endorsing products? I don't know how many people know this way. But there's a vern gone yet. Board game that out in the mid fifties. They're they're legitimately is it was vern. Gone Your Board Game. If if folks are familiar with the board games and they have a little spinner where you spend the take your turn and you'll go so many squares all this thing and you know well. The board game on burn. Ganja was one of those products in the fifties now back in that era such a thing was really unheard of. It's not on like today. Where marketing for everything in especially the wwe? How well they market Everything for a wrestler but Verne had that that game folks can go out if you can find a game right now you can pay a couple of hundred two thousand dollars for it. I'm sure it was probably five bucks back in the day if that. Yeah but Gino. Cappelletti went through all of this that he had a lot of anecdotes and and told about you. Know How they tape and he said you know burn would get excited when something didn't go right and and and you know but vern was the boss. He wanted the product to be right and he said Yeah wasn't as glitzy as it is today and his as professional looking but it was for the for the era was the state of the art and and vern started the color era in Tv and one thousand nine hundred seventy to one of the first programs in the twin cities in the in the local media market to go to color if fans don't realize that it is true that all star wrestling was one of the first color shows. Even though color had been around since the mid sixties you know in various measures but all star wrestling Verne was the first local market television show with wrestling. That did that. Here's what I want to share about gene at the very end and this I tell you Wade if you looked around the church and I did and I was one of them. That did this as well when gene delivered the line. I'm going to give you. There was not a dry in that church wrestler family friend. Whatever they were there they all you saw them wiping their eyes and Gino. Oakland finished his eulogy with this. And I and I'm not gonNA pretend that I can do it as Jean. Oakland did 'cause we all know what a great voice the Gene Oakland has. But this is what Jean said he said as I end my eulogy. There is only one way that we can do this. Fittingly Ladies and gentlemen by heavyweight champion of the world vern done. Yeah that's very appropriate. Everybody wiped there is yes. And that's the God's truth yes have you subscribe to the POW Torch Daily cast yet. It's a free daily podcast which shows throughout the week dedicated to ring of honor. All elite wrestling impact wrestling major league wrestling annex. T and Emma may talk for pro wrestling fans. That's Monday through Friday and on Saturdays. Checkout deep dive with Rich Fan where he examines a single topic in depth and then Sunday nights. It's night in America with Greg Parks. You can listen. Live or download the show later at POW torch daily Dot Com. Just click on the livestream link. He takes your calls talking about wrestling's biggest events either ones that just took place or previewing shows that are right around the corner and on Sundays when W W B runs pay per views. He's live right after the pay per view at POW torch daily Dot Com reviewing the show and taking your calls that's the POW torch daily cast. Light up just search. Pw Torch in Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your wrestling casks or visit our homepage to download or stream. The shows or find out more information. Pw Torch Daily Cast Dot Com and and at the church service. It was. It was a very big church. Wade and I wanNA venture that there were All of the pews all of the chairs. Everything were filled It was pretty much the capacity. I don't know what the Church holds but if I was estimated based on on the way a wrestling card would be when we kinda would go in and kind of figure out how many people were there. I WanNa say there was a good three to four hundred and and this is something that I should point out too. And it's wasn't planned this way but it was rather fitting the way the church was set up. The entire alter area was in a square in the center of the Church and then the pews went in a square around the alter. It was almost as if fern was in a ring and above. They just had the they had the lights above the altar that were down on for the entire church service. They had the lights above. And I got this feeling when I first saw and then there I heard a couple of people actually pointed out that it was almost like we were at an arena. And it certainly wasn't planned that way because the church has been there forever and that's the way the church is set up but it was very nice. Oh just the symbolism of that gives you chills a little bit does really it really does it really does I mean it was. I WANNA point out to about people who have had You know sometimes you got to bury the hatchet so to speak Stand crusher Kowalski. The big K and I always say Stan crusher Kowalski I never say the big K but I'd say the big K for those facts that those fans that don't recognize them as crusher Kowalski Stand crusher. Wolski he was the one man through the years and stand is another one of my personal all time buddies and favorites. Okay but stan was one man who I absolutely felt that. I think he had a legitimate beef with Verne. And I always cited with Stan stand was one of the first guy in fact he was the first guy along with tiny meals that Verne Brought into his company in nineteen sixty one informed the AWA and for fans that don't know tiny mills and Stan Kowalski where the very first AWA recognized the world. Tag Team Champions. So unburned started the company. They became champions and he used Stan who was a local boy from Fridley. But you know wrestled with an international reputation. 'cause he did wrestle. All over the country Stan worked for Verne Vernon and and stand had a long running program together. Not only in the late fifties before it became the Awa but after the Awa they had a long running program and they always drew great crowds their matches. This is back in the days when Stan was main eventing and Verne was either the United States champ at the time or he was the Awa Champ and they always had a good program they always had a running feud but vern. When I talked earlier about how Verne never buried. Larry Hennig on the car. Larry was a constant headliner main event or his whole career here withstand vern phased him out and rather quickly by nineteen. Sixty three. Stan was working mid card lower card. Sometimes openers sometimes even asked to do jobs on TV. And that always didn't set well with stand because Stan was a local boy and he was always popular popular in heels way. I'll point that out. But he was always a good draw. In Stan legitimately felt that Verne was giving them the shaft Verne also took his crusher name away from him he was crusher with a k. Crusher Kowalski and with Nineteen Sixty Two when Reggie LaSalle ski came to the Awa he was known as Crusher Lasalle ski at the time that was before he dropped his last name and vern pulled tiny male or not talking meals. Stan Kowalski that we'RE GOING TO WE'RE GONNA we can't have you called the crusher anymore. And that was all stay in had used. For about ten years previous he was crusher Kowalski so they had a they had a couple of matches crusher versus crusher crusher with a seed crusher with a K. I have all the programs from this. I could show you how they did it. It's really creative. But the loser of course was going to give up the crusher name. Well stay at lost. Of course and Stan was then relegated to becoming the big K and that staying always had an issue with that. Stamm said to me one time many years ago he says what the Hell is a big K. It's a capital letter. You know so. He he legitimately and burned did phasing out and one time in the Mid Seventies. Stan was at the TV studio and vern told told. Stand to go get his bag. I want you to to work the match and You know basically do the job on TV and stand said that was it. I'd had it and Karma Pride. Call it whatever you a Lotta Times. You do things for the business. You put the next guy over all that stuff. I mean I totally understand all that but I always understood. We're staying with coming from now. Is Not the time to overpay for razors at the drugstore? Harry's no sometimes it's better to stay inside and that's why they shipped directly to you so you can experience the quality of Harry Shave and just a few days from the convenience of your own home. I love here's razors because of the fit and finish of the razor blade for me. I don't like putting a cheap plastic blade or a heavy blade. That's off balance up against my face when I'm shaving. 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Keep your skin hydrated and a travel blade cover to keep your razor dry and easy to grab on the go so go to harrys dot com slash daily cast to start shaving better today. That's harrys dot com slash daily cast to get a free Harry's trial set and I love the packaging. It comes into well in later years. Bruiser Brody came in and he was King Kong Brody because Dick Bruiser well. That was totally out of respect for Dick the bruiser and you will also notice for fans when we talk about the crusher. I mean let's face it there was only one crusher when you get right down to it not crusher but when blackwell was using his crusher Jerry crusher blackwell name They even had a match with with The crusher and it was basically the fans were being told that there's only one crusher here. Jerry Blackwell can say he's crusher blackwell but the crusher is the crusher and so stay in had stayed had that issue and the reason I brought that up was Scott Smith stands son He called me last week and told me that because Scott night have stayed in touch and Stan Kowalski by the way is a rehab center right now ever after having gone through another hip surgery here about maybe a month and a half ago. Two months ago You had to have another hip replacement and this was the second one in two years. So he's he's at a rehabilitation place and Scott told me he said. I told my dad that Verne had passed away and he said he looked at me and he didn't say anything and he just kind of put his head down and Scott says. I know it's really bothering him more than he would say and then he said to me will you take me to the service End Stand Kolevski. Was there his son pushing him in a wheelchair and stand was there for the entire service and Scott said to me afterwards. He said my dad thanked me for bringing him and he said he needed to go here and be at peace with it. How sweet yeah I mean I think that that alert the actor to really telling stories that that says it all I mean you could have just said if you really thought the guy was the biggest dink in the world. You'd have just said No. I'm not going glad he's dead. I you know I know there are people that would do such things. Well George let me wrap up on this note. We need to continue this Another time too. I think there's a lot more we can go into trust me. Oh absolutely you've done a great job conveying. What happened in being an eyewitness for so many of us To to all kind of it sounds just like a week of healing and And just acknowledgment What Verne meant to the community and one on one to a lot of these people who worked for him or he worked with The when Verne was in private as a promoter. Obviously he had to make some tough calls. You bring up one of them. Big K I don't know the details and Larry the axe There's other stories Bobby you know He. On both sides of it for and made decisions. Some restaurants didn't like and then later wrestlers may decisions Vernon light right. You know when when Hogan left in And on and on When Verne earned a reputation for being prickly or temperamental yet he was also use. The public. Didn't see that side of that. There was this charismatic. You said the smile lit up the room in he was the star in centerpiece upper room. He had that each factor Wherever he went when Verne was in public in there was that charisma was he was that when he was like obviously in the ring he loved being star in the ring but talk about what it meant for him on. A genuine was just marketing to. I'M GONNA I. I'm I'm a grumpy upset person and I'm I'm throwing temper tantrums. But as soon as the camera comes on. I'll fake and be nice. Because that's what's best for business. Was that for an or did vern and it's a loaded question. 'cause I kinda answer I think when I was in public. Was that just a genuine other side of him that he just loved promoting Promoting pro wrestling promoting amateur wrestling being a man about town and being in the public spotlight. It just seemed like we all have our moves. We all have our size and that just seemed like something that Verne embraced and Jan was a real genuine part of who he was. I'm going to answer it this way to your Wade. Because at the service I think both Gene Oakland and Greg Ganja Brought this home. That Verne was a very serious businessman. Who was in business to make money as any business? Is You know when you when you're when you're the boss when you're the CEO. Your employees are not always going to appreciate what you do what you don't what you tell them to do how you tell them to do it. And when we talked before about you know if you don't like the company you should leave but obviously there are always. I mean every one of us who have ever worked a job. You know. There's a boss that you look at it and you go what I think you know. Oh my you know you got an issue and and I think Verne as with any head of a company you obviously on a day-to-day basis had to make decisions and you know. Here's the thing weighed when you are the boss and I mean we could get into some serious decisions that were made within the Awa and that could be another program in itself that how they came about and what they how they impacted the company or didn't the impact that company but as as an owner of a company. There are moments in time when you have to make a gut reaction decision on the spot and maybe an hour later or the next day. You realize I shouldn't have done that or I I could have done differently. Hindsight as you say is always twenty twenty but and Aloha Torch Faithful. This is Kelly wells host of talks and x t every Thursday. You can hear me and my gang of idiots Tom Style. Shares thoughts from the live tapings and torch recap Limburg as well as a rotating cast of guests cover the matches and events in St Live on USA network search. Bwi torching and apple podcasts. Or Your podcast. App to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire w torch daily cast schedule at POW torch daily past dot com cheers. That was that was the deal with Verne. And I think everybody recognize that and both gene and Greg. They pointed it out at the charismatic. Vern Ganja Greg mentioning as a father. As a as a fishing person as a hunter he loved all those things was always the same vern. The girls the gun your girls daughters. They talked about growing up with their dad. How you know pleasant. He wasn't how understanding he wasn't hell forgiving. He was things that they may have done wrong. Or when they didn't do well at something and he always encouraged them and he said Greg made the comment that burned is such A. He was such a person of tenacity. He he he just he constantly had to be. He was and I'm GonNa tell you a story at how Greg ended this with his eulogy. That Verne was so competitive that he he never liked to see failure and especially he didn't like to fail. You know he would try. Harder would try harder. He said play tennis with him. Vern would kill you at tennis because he was so competitive and when he was hunting he had to get them. Oh he had to get the most dear or he had to catch the most fish and and it was just you know he was always challenging and he says but Greg said there was one person who vern could never beat and he said that was our mom Mary. They used to play gin and he said marry my. You said my mom. She was the better Jin player and she beat him all the time and she said burn would get so upset and he resorted to cheating. You know he'd move cards each take cards. He do anything to try to win. And she'd still beat him and he says my mom always beat him but he says that's the way Verne was and the guy that we saw on the street or in behind behind the camera he both gene and and Greg pretty much said that was vern but he was just so intense all the time with you know. Obviously when you're doing the TV studio matches and you're promoting a wrestling card and whatever you're doing something has to be done in their decisions and and they said that's what made Verne Special Times. The people didn't see that that you know tenseness and maybe that I of anger for a moment where he yell at someone or but vern always had the charisma and a Lotta Times. He'd go back and slap the guy on the shoulder and say. Hey so you know I mean. And they pointed that out that it was. You Know Y'all let you but a second later he'd pat you on the back and he may maybe say nothing but the pat on the back said that you know. Hey Man. I'm sorry and so I think to answer your question. I think the Verne. Ganja that we saw was was vern. Ganja and he lived in Georgia. I could let another hour and a half go by and barely noticed but I have to run. I don't overstay my welcome to you today but let's do this again and And and talk you know give people more of your knowledge of earn and get it You know in a lengthy format like this on the record for the archives and learn what we can about about the AWA and its evolution. It's part of the pollution of pro wrestling and very Very important role in that and the different areas that that he grew and then obviously the the Mid Eighties where things started to fall apart and and You know he was overtaken by the national expansion. There's so many things have been said about him. And that and I really appreciate your perspective and your First Person. Stories George on so many of these Relationships that that in many ways came full circle so again. I just thank you for sharing what you have today with us. I totally appreciate. It weighed by all means Let's start again and you know anytime you want me to come on. I'm certainly willing and always a great job for what you do with the torch and how you keep pro wrestling alive. Wait thank you George. George Shire author up. It's golden age of wrestling. Burn Ganja to the road warriors on that note. I think our listeners and I appreciate everybody joining US Today. And until next time we keller signing up one of the great benefits that comes with a VIP membership is access to our unmatched library of pro wrestling torch newsletter back issues in the late nineteen eighty s and nineteen nineties. Before the Internet pro wrestling was documented in print newsletters contemporaneous. -Ly packing a week's worth of news and results and Cuban a interviews some progress biggest news makers in the pages of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter when you become a VIP member you instantly gain access on our POW torch VIP website to a by year-by-year listing of all fifty plus back issues from every year dating back to the late nineteen eighties through today and every week we update the format of our twenty years ago back issues with pdf all text format. It makes it easier to read on your phone or your tablet and the latest twenty years ago back issue postings have been fascinating time in the pro wrestling industry going back to the April first. Two thousand issue the cover story headline Bischoff and Russo. Given a second chance the opening line of the cover story. Dulles W needed a big shakeup because status quo was leading them. Down Hill. Fast Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo. To contributors to the problems W W is having have been brought back as a team to save. Wcw and there's an up cover story on that along with a lot of other news in that issue including a feature column by Bruce Mitchell and my preview of Wrestlemainia and then we march through April. The next headline was Wrestlemania. Two thousand triple h retains the title. The next week the cover story is on the re launch of nitro. After W W took a week off plus a cover sidebar reports on CW champion. Mike Awesome attempt to jump to WCW without dropping the E C W title. I and part one of my torch talk interview with Lance Storm. And then the April twenty second issue opens with a cover story on nitro crashing ratings after just two weeks of Russo and Eric Bischoff in charge. Plus a feature editorial that I wrote regarding Russo's booking style and my end notes editorial on the Russo Hogan dynamic plus coverage of W. W Spring Stampede. And more so when you go. 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Remembering the Territories: AWA

Busted Open

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

Remembering the Territories: AWA

"This is a special edition of busted, open, Sirius. XM fight nation. Live from the Sirius Xm studios in New York City this. Busted Open. Your only destination for daily pro wrestling talk in the entire world. From the independent seat to the main event of Wrestlemainia. Like busted open. With. The topics breaking news interviews with some of the biggest names in the game. Designed, for the fan by the FAN old school era. Check meets. New School. tried. Instead Free Sixteen. Live now this is busted opens Awa territory special here, your hosts. Dave La Greco and Tommy Dreamer. welcome to bust it open remembering the territory's myself David Greco and my tag team partner today, the innovator of violence, the landlord of the House of Hardcore, himself, Tommy, dreamer and Tommy today with. The Awa, no, yeah, we are I'm super excited I. Don't remember how I got the Awa besides the wrestling magazines that we've talked so much about because that was our internet before the Internet was invented, but I used to love the Awa. You WanNa talk about. You know today's wrestling where we talk about the third brand of NFC AWA was a major powerhouse in professional wrestling. And you look at the rosters, and you look at the hall of fame members that the ADA brought to us. It's just saw. It's so enriched in wrestling history. I can't wait to talk about it as `specially. Talk with our guest because he is the man. Yes, we're going to introduce our guest than just one second I'll tell you exactly how we were able to get the Awa in the New York Metropolitan. Metropolitan, Area Tommy were were both from an ad is w pix channel eleven on Saturday mornings. We were able to get the w eight and later on on ESPN, but you mentioned our guests, so let's bring him in. Somebody knows not only a part of the AWA. Only a tag team champion with Jim, bronze L., but also the son of the legendary the iconic vern Ganja. We bring in Greg on your right now, Greg, how are you today Sir well good. Thank you very much for yarn. Good seeing you all again. Again I don't think ever saw you dave but. You something about me. You look good. Is it just the three of us or not, just the three of us. Okay, it's the three of us in the busted open nation and you know busted open is the number one sport show on Sirius? XM and I think a big reason. Why is because pro wrestling? Fans are so loyal, and when you look at the Awa and that loyal fen fan base especially where it was regionally IN MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA You would have to say Greg that the AWA loyalists were definitely that loyal. Oh, they were you know and it was a. it was a big territory. You know we covered more more ground than any other league in the in the in the USA we were from Winnipeg Canada Saint Louis all the way to the west coast scene. Our major cities were when Abegg. Green Bay Milwaukee Chicago Saint Louis. Did the quad cities. We did Omaha Lincoln Denver Phoenix Salt Lake City Las Vegas and Oakland and San. Francisco plus Vancouver and Montreal once in Awhile in Toronto once in a while while Greg. Covered what was what was a average week for you? As a wrestler in the sense of travel schedule, we know the W is a little bit different than average everybody else. burns philosophy was a in in in the Midwest and in the in this part of the United States from. Winnipeg to the west coast. people in May and June didn't come up much. They wanted to get out. They'd been cooped up all winter, so we took the whole month of May and the first two weeks of June off and only ran the major cities, which was usually Thursday Friday Saturday sometimes Sunday in the summer saw our load is about two hundred fifty to two hundred seventy matches a year whereas you know in the Charlotte area, the Florida Area Texas New York. They're going three hundred sixty five days a year, and and some of them twice on the weekend. So we're able to because of that because of the major cities. Verne was able to get. The best talent in here all the time you know they had time is big thing. He wanted time for their families and they peop- The guy said time for their families, so they made great money We didn't have We had four or five matches all we had on a card and we're sold out from one end of the country to the other most of the time in our television ratings were the highest of any TV show except for sixty minutes across the country. Wow, and you know here in New York area people talk about Madison Square Garden. In Atlanta. They talk about the arm the. When I think of the AWA. I think of the Saint Paul Civic. Center I mean that was the bigger in a arena that all the TV, really kinda surrounded correct, will it? Did we did it out of here? We did Minneapolis out of the studio here and then we would film the the two places. We found a winnipeg just ruin. Ascend up there so they. They took the matches across Canada. That's why we we did a lot Canada and and then we got ESPN earwood adventure took his nationwide but Yes Saint Paul, you know. The Denver Auditorium was unbelievable, CHICAGO? We use the Russell both the apathy. The rosemont horizon. Balance San Francisco is quite an a quite. An adventure the Oakland Coliseum. I. Mean you know it was all major buildings and There was it was hot. It was fun. We we. All Know About Your Dad's amateur background, but I think professional wrestling. He's known for being the trainer of trainers You went through that camp. Can you get talk about because it's such a different way of training today and you know, but your dad He has some legendary. we countered it up one day twenty, one hundred forty four wrestlers. On out of that Ninety but ninety nine percent of all ended up being made event wrestlers. And his flashy was he started. started wrestling in nineteen, forty, nine here in Minneapolis, and came out of an amateur bachelor of yours human, and are SORTA, so it was a big star. MINNESOTA ALREADY NCA champion rest in the nineteen forty eight Olympic team as an alternate. so he he had a name for himself and his first match us to tell us. Was Abe King Kong Cassie And some of his buddies were in the front row, one his bud grant. Or biking coach billy by in Jim laskey and Burns Wrestling Abe King Coin Cash E.. And He was getting the crap out of him pretty good and the three guys stood up in cash. She leaned over the ropes they said said on punks. and. They all sat back down but they told Bernie was too small, so they sent him to the Homa which we lived in a trailer at the time, and he hooked it up behind the car, and my mom and dad drove to Tulsa. Oklahoma. And in two weeks became the light heavyweight champion. And then we made that circuit down there. You Know Tulsa Downing through Texas back in Louisiana and in in back to Oklahoma. And then in nineteen fifty get a call from Fred Kohler the promoter in Chicago. And, he said a burn. We'd like to bring into Chicago. We're going to go on network TV. Which is that time? Was the Dupont network which eventually became wgn? And he so we'd like you to come in. So this was the story. Burn used to tell so I fly into Chicago on. Get into the get into the arena and Fred comes up me and you've got about thirty guys in the locker room and he said. Burn here's what we're going to do with you. Tonight. Rian dressed up as a Martian. We're in a laureate from the ceiling. And then you're gonNA Russell. In in Vernon and I know run by by Cantieri of careful. How I word this for the satellite radio. Don't forget. Case, so you gotta be concurs. You Can Adler. So ruined said the fuck you are. Out Tell you what lineup everybody here? All three I'm going down to the ring and they can come in one at a time two to time three two time. If I don't beat him, all I'll quit wrestling. And nobody get in the ring with him. So, he said I'm wearing my wrestling tights and my boots, and if I don't make it that way, I won't make it, but I'm gonNA. Make it and he became the first. Major Star on Network TV. And I guess a friend of mine told me that in the World Book Guinness of Records. He holds the record for the first athlete besides Babe Ruth to make one hundred grand. They made that nineteen fifty. And he would tell the story that you know all that. All the territories are still out there so they would. They would grab a couple of the the stars of the Network TV and bring immense. They bring vern in Pat. O'connor into Buffalo New York. And they get in there and the plane was a little late in. It's snowing and. God the traffic's backed up and they said man. What's going on here in town is GonNa. Kill our gate. Or they get to the arena, and there was twenty thousand people turned away from the event that night. So then he knew what the power of TV was, and he wanted to change the. The philosophy of rustling at that time, there was gorgeous, Gorgeous George, and you know a lot of Gimmick, would they? Called Gimme wrestlers at that time. And he won more athletes and he brought in Dick the bruiser in. killer Kowalski a Yukon Eric mature Kim Mulia Kalmykov brothers you know it was quite an array of talent that he ended up bringing in to the national TV and actually spending the time and training. And I think that's the biggest thing about the AWA. In regards to any other promotion was really not only the athleticism, but the foundation in amateur wrestling I think that's what made the Awa so unique? Oh, it was I mean. The wrestling camp was so tough. You couldn't believe it and we had to learn how to utter Russell and I mean Russell Russell shoot the way they call it and if you couldn't do that, you probably. Probably couldn't make it with with Fern I. mean his philosophy was when you go in the ring? A better know how to Russell and you'd better you know you put your matched. The other with wrestling holds and I get forget how to get out of the holds and and doing everything else after that, so it was a heck of an education. We went six hours a day. six days a week, plus then we had to lift weights afterwards and the camp. Start Out it might can't. We were really fortunate? We had RIC flair Jim Brown Zell The Iron Sheik Ken Patera myself and Bob Braggers Bob came out of pro football. He was about thirty two at the time, so he never really made it just because of his age. You know he didn't quite catch on Vern train sides as fodder Ricky steamboat gun. The Anderson Brothers only liars Gene Wow You know people don't even realize that, but sent a lot of people all over the country blackjack Mulligan blackjack Lanza. The list goes on and on. And how it was the same camp every time man you started out. With start out with a thousand free squads. the called hindered squads with a little jump step in them, and we start out with four such a twenty five in in our camp. We had one hundred one hundred guys in the for after the first hour. That was six of US left. Everybody else had dropped off. I mean the calisthenics we had to do the squad's. A all these calisthenics inside the ring. Then we got in the rain. We did another hour in the ring of Calisthenics. He'd stand on your head that turnbuckle. Build your neck up. You get on all fours. One Guy would sit on your back facing apps direction with his head from your head, and then he'd do a as sit up, and then you'd have to push them up with your neck would build strong necks, and then the next hour might behold encounter homes and doom thousand times the fourth hour be bumps. We probably do a thousand bumps a day. And then hit the ropes. You know in those first six weeks you know Thomas you know tears all the skin off your your body and all black and blue, but You just keep working through it and then Then we would do the fifth hour generally was submission wrestling. Billy Robinson was our trainer, and he had a in between him and burn the. A. Number of horrible holds the. Got Stretched really bad. You know they'd show you three or four, and then you'd have to get on the map with them. And then the thoroughness a he the arms open and you'd go to put that. Hold on, and they'd reverse. Crank your. Foot up your ass. You know and. Screaming like crazy. But and then the last hour we went out, we did We did win sprints. We did run twenty yards walk. Twenty yards run twenty yards for half hour and then we'd go over I. He had this farm that we're in an old barn with the we're on the second floor, no windows and one lightbulb above the the ring. And We went from September to January of January and you know his fifteen twenty below zero out there. And we go across the road. He had There was a river there with river bluffs, and we'd run up and down those and then we would run back to the back to the barn, which about a mile away and butter and flair. We should the last two. Little tiny steps trying to get back in Vernon billy streaming. Adam but that was quite account I mean. When you came out of there you were pretty ready. You were pretty ready. And, you talk about the stars you mentioned campaign. Terry mentioned ric Flair when we come back Tommy with Gregg Ganja. We WanNA. Talk about the stars. That really made the AWA will do that. We're back on remembering the territory's Awa. Right here busted open. You're listening to bust. It opens a W territory special, only on Sirius. XM fight nature. Channel One fifty six. The, Aqaba rock show Mike Tyson has the fire in. That doesn't sound anything like Holyfield's mindset towards if only fill wants to put on a spectacle of adversary, it sounds like Mike Tyson once. Is masqueraded under the term exhibition. What he wants to you know and I don't thought for exhibition will satisfy that fired. Mike Tyson. I think it's going to be scheduled. The next edition titled the Next Vision When I. Think once Mike is in ring. It's going to turn into a fight weekdays from twelve to one PM Eastern. On siriusxm fight, nation Channel One fifty-six Dave league-record NEC. W Legend Tommy Dreamer take a look back at one of the most historic wrestling territories, the American wrestling association this busted. Open Awa territory special with Special Guest Gregg God yet. Welcome back to busted open remembering the territory's talking about the AWA and Tommy were here with Gregg. genucel please for first time ever in the eleven year history a busted open to talk to Greg Ganja and obviously greg was a star in the Awa and they were not short on stars Tommy from you know Nick Bach Winkle to Wa- mcdaniels some dog for Schon Brad Reagan's the whole Cogan Rick Martel. Stars Tommy in the AWA. I cannot pinpoint one person when I think of the face of the way, this has to be a complete show to talk about a Mount Rushmore, of the Awa just because there was so many great associated with the brand. Well I mean obviously on any Mount Rushmore, but especially the one for the AWA vern. Ganja needs to be on that Mount Rushmore, and you know a lot of younger fans Tommy and we're here with Gregg Gonyea as well. A lot of fans don't understand how big the AWA was Tommy. We did a whole special on the wrestling magazines on how important those magazines were well when you look at the rankings which was at the end of the magazines, which is probably more important than anything else in the magazines when you. You look at the NWEA X. to it would have the world champion when you look next to the AWA it would also say world champion, and then when you look at the WWF would just say champion so I think when you look at the two most important and biggest bodies of professional wrestling, it would be the NWEA and the AWA. That's how I grew up as the order of all and then true, you know, I guess the expansion kind of changed everything, but I wanNA talk about the glory days of. I don't WanNa talk. Negative about the aws screw that stupid expansion are hated. Old COGAN! Well, you know. It was funny deal because I wrestled. Shea Stadium and Hogan was on the card that night against. Andre the giant. and. I was on about the second or third match, and then I went out with some friends style. Andrea Hogan Ahmen. It was just A. It was not a very good match. And Andrei just ate him up and so we're not with PAT, Patterson and Ricky steamboat a couple of the guys when we came back to the hotel and I'm going up to my room and down, the hall is setting the Hulk. As a man. What's a matter? I can't make it in wrestling now. As a yeah, you, can you just need some some better training? I mean you've got. You've got the looks and everything. I just need some work. Why don't you come to the AWA? Someone back and I told my dad about her. So there's this guy in New York as Hogan I said he would be phenomenal here. But he needs a lot of work. Lot at work, he said well. You know have them call me. I told the Call Burnin, took him three months to meet call and we're doing the Phil Donahue show we had done. donnas Jesse Ventura Jim in myself. Some of the girls couple of midgets and we did an hour on the Phil Donahue show and Vern Hogan was supposed to meet us there. He drove from Florida and vern through on the last minute, and a half with Fillon, and he said I'm going to throw them on for an interview and I swam heard. Do an interview and I. I don't know if you WANNA do that like TV. Is Horrible. Vern system. This is the guy. I said Gee. She just needs some help. Saw Burn worked with him on his personality in his interviews Jiminy worked out with them, and we put him in six man tag team matches, and we would die. Take him in at the right spot. We're working an arm. We'd say grabbed the. Toilet Drop League on pay up and we only let him get in when for a comeback or When he we had the advantage, and then he started catching on and got the pace of it and from their houses history. Did you ever feel extra pressure like? I know growing up. There was a lot of second generation wrestlers that couldn't fill a their father's shoes. I really think for your generations. Really you and Kurt hitting the guys that did, but did you have an extra pressure to kind of be like you're the son of Burn Ganja. Now I never looked at it that way Tommy. You know if I did I wouldn't make it and. Be, yourself and that's all I was trying to do is just be myself I didn't. You, know I it was always over my head and people would always. Ask me about it, but. I never felt that way. I just wanted to do my own thing and when we were training versus a pick out things from the people that you like. and. Put them into your own personality and I. Did I took some from Billy Robinson who took a lot from burnt took in the other was read best in and then Ray Stevens, those are the four guys that I really really watched and you know is. The baby faces Robinson. Vern and Best in and then as a heel. There wasn't anybody better than Ray. Stevens was timing and everything, and I really learned timing from him, watching him in getting it and You know any Vaudin just did my own thing and and Jim. I became We played football together, Minnesota I got him into the sport and we got him back from Kansas City. We teamed up and. Everybody said we wouldn't make it and. You know can worked out a little differently. When you look at the Awa and Tommy I talk about this all the time. A lot of the legends Kinda. Get overlooked when you look back and you know I guess are under appreciated or underrated. You mentioned one in red. Bastien I mean read Stephen. I remember growing up. You know he was really regarded as one of the greats and has truly gotten forgotten over time. Why do you think that is? And why do you? It's just because the evolution of the sport. You know I don't know what McMahon I'd I don't get his networks I. Don't Wa-. Nobody puts on there, but. I mean in the Awa going going way back. I remember growing up and my dad's me to saint. Paul Auditorium in the added chemicals. Against Mitchell Eric Allah in Kendra Chablis four heels. And it was bloody match and I was about I. Don't know six seven years old, and we walk him back to the to the hallway where the locker rooms were and I look in and I see the doctor sewn up. Mitsu and and and Era Kala and then I see the camera cops getting sewed up down in another one and I. Turn My dad and I said one thing I know for sure I never wanted to be a wrestler. Gene Kaminsky hard boiled haggerty Leona Malini. You, know Wilbur Snyder Dick the bruiser the crusher. I mean the crusher was A. Huge? Focal point here in the subway. He was it was alleged. Know he was he was. Steve Austin of that time. Receive Austin was the crusher of his time. You know the beer drinker and told it the way. He, he could only tell it. And Mad dog was Sean with the unbelievable personality he added, and and you know what you saw with mad. Dog is what you got I got. Spurs about Mad Docu Kenya bleep. I'm saving them for my own show though okay. Dad I. Know he was he was. He was quite an individual. He actually had been wrestling for about ten years came on a Montreal. He wrestled on the nineteen, forty, eight, a Canadian Olympic team. A lot of people don't know that. That's where my dad. And he had blonde wavy hair and it was about one hundred. Eighty pounds in looked fantastic and. Turn pro. Struggled for ten years, he got hit in the throat and his voice change that he thought like this. He got a couple of teeth knocked out, and he was losing. His hair was wrestling for Dino Portland. and Don had called Vernon said Hey I get this guy. You know he he hasn't. He hasn't done anything anywhere and I'm going to let them go could use them on TV in Omaha and the way back, but he's driving back. Montreal maybe Omaha in Minneapolis TV in both places and virtually we'll just put him on TV. So Meadows last match in Oregon. He he's wrestling some young kid there on the second match and he is, he is so frustrated and his needs again. The throat the teeth. He's losing the hair. He's going to quit wrestling. He goes out in a ring and he malicious. This kid. He throws him out of the ring, bangs his head off. The table lasted. A kid open knocked out. Three people in the front row knocked out two policemen. They held him back in locker room and he's all. Trying to get away and the police are holding them down what he wants to do with them. Don Don says you're nothing but a mad dog. And that's how he got the name came to. Omaha wrestled away. He didn't Oregon. And it. It got over like that name became the champion there and. And came to the AWA and you know the rest was history, but boy he was. He was no fun to get in the ring with. Brunell. I I wrestled mad dog in Minneapolis. And I said to my dad said Hey. What did I do with this Guy i? Mean I see you're all scratched up? Got Bite Marks Sonya. He looks at me. He says hidden places to see that you. And I said then and good luck. Shut. With dog and I go to tie up with him and he hit his hand like the blocks. He company me in. You could feel it down on your feet. You felt like the cartoon character. That was gonNA. Crack. So I hit him back, and we exchanged at the third one. I hit him right over the Ear Inn. He kinda losses. Equilibrium I grabbed a leg and took him down. And went to take a breath in. He took his fingernails and went right down. My back took all the skin off my back God. Someone about twenty minutes with them and I back into the locker room, and I'm bleeding in cut up and they get scratches all remained Bruns L. sitting there in the chair. We had separate locker rooms and he's. Use laughing at me and I said. You got him next Friday and Denver. All the sudden mad dog kicks open the door. And I've seen this form, and he fights in the locker room and all shit. Reach Bend Down Grab my chair and I'm looking at him and he's got that looking at and. I respect you. Can about crafting my pants. And said. So then runs out. GETS THE DENVER WITH HIM. So Jim says what do you do with them and is to hit him twice as hard as he hits you. and. I said and good luck death. Jim Gets in the ring with them. Mad back into the turnbuckle, and he hits Jim and Jim hits him back. Harder Jim hit some harder, and it goes about three punches harder in a hits them in a hit on right on the shot. And dog is to take that finger. Lock it in your mouth was e round. He throws him out of the reigning Jim said I hit the floor. And all I see is a shadow and all of a sudden both feet. Mandak shot right in. My stomach jumped off the apron. Blue all the wind on me grabs me again by the players are back in. The ring picks me up. He hits blast me and he says not diehard. To Jim came back in the locker room. Scratched a bit up bleeding. He's achieve right. I said. That's the man dog man. You better be ready for flight when you get in there. That is absolutely amazing. You're right Tommy. Mr Is a fantastic storyteller I told you. We. What were your other responsibilities in the Awa besides just arrest? I it was just wrestling in any eventually You know I'd handle the the matches when we got got to the arenas and would settle up with promoters. every the different promoters and everyone in that to get the you know with the numbers what the gate were and all that and then then I started Helping with the booking. In the booker said time Vernon juicy just vernon, while he carbon, while he was kind of a guy, but earned the booking, and then he started bringing in myself brought in Nick back with go. Bobby Heenan Jack Lanza. Ray Stevens in. Guys have been around the business a long time and We had all the great talent there, so it was good, so we did the booking than I, did the. TV laid out format for the ESPN and for the for the national for our syndicated program and House responsible a lot for the interviews helping the guys with their interviews. Jesse Ventura when he came in, he was horrible. and have to give him the theme of it. In our flashes back, then I used to teach the guys. Give them a beginning. A middle and a Finnish. You guys fill in fill in the end fill and everything in between. and. Chart Italian their personalities with with the the interview. So, I had a lot of responsibilities. When, guys in rookie, CBO guys, if I had time, I'd have to go out. Given the ring with them once in a while Kurt ending. In those. who a ton of talent that came through there that that Verne train that you know eventually we were. We'd have to go out and put our time in with them to that was part of our job saw would come on myself. We were always around town. But it was it was. Oh Shit I when I started at hall the Damn Ring. You made us all the rain made us referee learning learning the sport from the bottom up and I remember driving this damaging truckin and George scrap iron, could ASCII. He was a character. Tell, you a quick, quick match him and mad dog live TV. And George, he would referee. He wrestled. He took the ring and he said that up. So they're on the TV, match and mad dog cuffs him. And Georgetta plate and knocked the plate. Right out of his mouth onto the Mat. In Georgia's down on his hands and knees in mad dog doesn't know what he's doing that. Jump his around the ring, and the ring is bounce and teeth or bouncing on the map like this in Georgia. Try to catch. The producers back in the watching it back in the in the. Control Room and the producer. The Director Tom Scott for right off the stool lap. It went on for like probably only about forty five seconds, but it was revised seconds so this. Fifteen. It was funny the nail. Greg when we come back because we gotta take a break when we come back I. WanNa talk about the one wrestler I think most people think about more than any other. And as former Awa champion Nick Bach winkle, we'll get into him when Tommy and I are back with Great Ganja. Remembering the tariff vertical. Right here I'm busted open. You're listening to busted opens AWA territory special only on Sirius Xm. Fight Nature Channel, one fifty six. Your home for all things combat sports is Sirius. XM fire nation start. Your Day with Hall of fame pro wrestling talk on busted open. These men and women that build the business. Then the Baruch show keeps you up to date on all things. Boxing boxing is the theater of young expect, and then Aguirre. Loop Thomas, has you covered for mixed martial arts? Joe Rogan is the most important influence in all of them and fighting broken down like nowhere else only on Sirius Xm by nascent on one fifty. Dude record and EC doubling legend. Tommy Dreamer. Take a look back at one of the most historic wrestling territories. The American Wrestling Association. This is busted. Oh Ben's Awa territory special with special guest Gregg Dot. Welcome back to bust it open. Remembering the territory's talking Awa, who better Dhabi than to talk Awa with than the legendary Greg Ganja, Greg Man. Thank you so much for the time today. Matt it's been a pleasure for both of us. If I'd have been any longer than eleven years. I'd really been legendary pro and been around. Dust on the leaves on finally, but eleven to store and out of talent. That's not true. There's people to talk to, but I will say this true story. Two weeks ago, we had the undertaker on, and my producer says to me well I. You know that's it. Bucket list is over I, so wait a second. We still haven't gotten greg. I fucked the undertaker how to talk to Greg. Ganja and Tommy's non because he knows it's true, so it's great talking to you today for you to the undertaker's a great guy. Good good friend. Definitely. I do WANNA get into Nick Bach Winkle, but before we do. I do WANNA get into pro wrestling. You stay because I live in Jersey I was born and raised in New Jersey and. Tommy will tell you. I was I was never a big WWF. N. WWF to me, always came off a little cartoonish, so when the AWA was able to come to Jersey at the meadowlands with the NWEA. That was a a very big deal for me, and my dad took me I have the programs right next to? My Dad took me to all the shows. Do you have any memories that you can share about pro wrestling USA well, you know it was a good concept. It was just too many egos in a way. I, mean you try to bring all these promoters together. You had the Crockett's. It had bill watts a very strong powerful. Egos and vern and the birds wanted put it together, and then you had then you had jerry. Jarrett and Eddie Graham Down in Florida. Eddie was were easy to work with It was it was it was a little tough? They all had their own ideas on wage going. You know you really have to have that. One guy that has the final say. And they couldn't really come to an agreement on that It was unfortunate because by. If, they were to just. Listened in done it. it would have been very hard for McMahon to to compete with it. Right Greg. I did a movie with Ed Asner and a year and a half ago and It was the rest of goes career. He and I had told forgot about the wrestler and he goes. No, I did a movie about burn. Ganja I said Oh my God. Yeah, the Russell and he's like. Do you know dusty Rhodes and Dick Murdoch I said yes, I, do he? They're crazy. Because a great time I had filled me with these guys. They're all DUTT's. And I just laughed so hard, and then him and I were just schouten shit about pro wrestling. You know how much he enjoyed it but film in that movie and you think about that movie and how we see documentaries about the business. That movie was so ahead of its time. Go back and watch it now about you know the training, but it was also like a work documentary. You know it's it's amazing. How like who had that foresight to do that? Movie? That was vern was his how? Ezra was. He gave him Birmingham good friends He wrote me a little note. When Verne passed away, and and and I wrote his daughter when when when Ed passed away, but I talked to a few times he was just got. He was a great guy and fun, and he loved being around the guys because they you know. We had quite a crew here. At that time I could imagine. Then you know while mcdaniel. It was interesting, Ray, Stevens Nick Bach Winkle. Bobby Heenan. You know he's. talked by anyone guys about Nick Bachmann. We talk about him. Get talk about Bobby Heenan because Bobby Heenan Without Bobby Heenan Nick would have done. Really. Really well. You know because as the aws belt. And he was the he was a heel, wrestling champion, and he he. He did it as good as anybody. But once you put Heenan with him and Ray Stevens at electrified that thing. A Bobby Heenan there was there was nobody better in the wrestling business and Bobby Heenan as a manager and in the ring. He was phenomenal. into his his character, and when you put him with Nick It. the chemistry. There was unbelievable. And when I think of Nick Boxing obviously the talk about Bobby Heenan I talked about Nick Bach Winkle as the champion and feud with Hogan and it's it's so upsetting because that feud with Hogan was like right at the caused by gets. You felt the momentum going in. It was dislike and you know they. You know something would happen where you know. Know Big get this Walla. Fide or something would happen or Hogan would get disqualified. Say you know you're just about to get the payoff of this long beautiful story, and then you know the legs got under, but I mean that bill of that feud was absolutely incredible. Well those there's only two people that knew where this was gone was Vernon myself? In? Bern was hesitant. Even tell me. But Hogan got mad because he didn't get the get the title. and. Vern we had had a battle royal in Saint Paul. In. November. In. The winner was forced to be me back WINCO And in the thing it ended up Andrea and Hogan, and they just bumped into each other backed back. And we had twenty two thousand people in Arena. And they just turned flow and looked at each other in the place when dead silent. And my dad's said Shit we got a call a he called Vince right away. Vinci's said Hey. I need Andrea for February the whole month of February. Run? And Andrea and in February of eighty three. And then Hogan and Bach Winkle in April. On Network TV on CBS. CBS contacted us in. Back in the fall, and that's revert. Who's going with the thing? He didn't tell anybody. Wow, and then that that would have been network TV and that's Morgan never came back from from job. When he came back from Japan and come back to the W way and had, and then they called Andrei from us in February so. Oh my goodness, I never heard those stories before Ryota. Heard that you're the guys, the first one I've told a couple of other people at. First, I told all. Told Hogan that when I saw him the Fox, PERMIRA and California. Said if you just hung in these I, never wanted to leave the W I loved it. There is I wagon Oji were to listen. You know when I called you I said. Hey, there's something in store for you. Just hang in here. And you know, don't walk out at least you know. If you want to leave leave, but I would make your your matches here. We all end of December all our big arenas sold out. With him and Jim nine six men with boggling golden. Stevenson Heynen or a blackwell, an I suggest finish that out that if you wanna go go, but don't burn bridges, and I said in you should listen because there's something coming up for you down the road. But is well. Vince Vince GonNa. Pay Me more than. I'll make. Has a ship you you're making. To see that to believe it. But I guess that's what he did. Well my stomach literally just dropped Greg just frigging day daycare. Wasn't there. Imagine could imagine how you felt whole. Wonder why your father wide sheikhdom break his leg I wanna break his leg, yeah! Wasn't that yeah, I mean. CBS should contact as Jim Genteel was he did the NFL football and he contacted vern through the our CBS associate here in town and laid the in. We laid it out at the ocean. Be On Network TV, and now we're going to have the quick Golah. Hogan match. You think of how the business would have changed man that's. I mean Hulkamania did start in the AWA. Players if they all the players in fact when I worked I worked for Vince. You know and they're. They're good people I. I love Stephanie In and Paul and INVINCI- get along with and Linda. On the plane and Stephanie Turns to me and she's. She said were on their. Judd gone where we're going. And she says you know my dad made Hogan. Stephanie. On. My Dad made she got mad at me and I. Said you know. He was with the with the with the WWF at that time and he was. He wrestled honor and he was failing. He came to the FBI who we turn Hogan into the into the monster was. I remember the AWA T shirt Hulkamania Ball Civic Center descended from them from the rest of the magazines, said Yemen. Not, been called factual proof and also, too. I believe Hogan at the end of the run in the AWA was coming to the ring with either tiger. Yeah. Wow, he he he, when I saw him in Los Angeles Los Angeles he's, he said my brother is for these you know. He said, do you remember? What happened the Rosemont Horizon I said Yeah. He said you're the guy we got in the ring and the place was. This were wrestling boxing go. Stevens Blackwell and and heated in the corner, was Jim Ryan Hogan. People just Went Bananas Zoe came out. They bailed out of the ring and Hogan did his pose. And he said what did you do? And I grabbed her t shirt. I told Jim to grab the other side that we toward off real slow he, so that's it. You're the guy that gave it to me. Nice. So well I'm glad I did. I be by Campbell Tommy. This has to be the fastest. Our ever talking to somebody I. Mean I told you about Greg Gone Yeah. He's a legend man. I told you about amusing. Talk and I love it well. You know what I just. Found out from our producer. He's given us an extended five minutes or five minutes more with Gregg Guy with never done this before. Greg regarding an extra five I'm not I'm done. I'm done. Cut it off. What are you doing today? in the sense of US still I know it's hard to follow the business, but you off camera. We're talking about your help. Train people well I. I was you know they're close down now as as you know, right? In fact, the young girl I got down to the WWE I talked to Stephanus Stephanie. Litter background is I can't get anybody to give her a chance. She sent her stuff in so Stephanie looked at. She is a She was on the US gymnastics team four years she was a weightlifter, a cross trainer, unbelievable, really good athlete, and really catch on fast. She had a little bit of an attitude I was a little worried about, but. Straighten that out. Hope. So she went down there, and she did her physical. She did her interview. And then they closed it down because of the virus and I don't know when she'll get called back, but as soon as we hear then we're gonNA. Hopefully get back up to Kenza. Jim and in get a ready. But You know they're they're there. Were we hear a lost my train of thought what you're doing and is doing now. Beside staying indoors. You're just you're helping train at a Kellyanne school. Yeah needs to get a pro wrestling. TJ needs to get on camera. Because wrestling fans love you and remember. They want to hear from you and I know I'll ask you my one last favor question that I've had as well. It's a two part one I help out an impact wrestling and I have been trying to get That company had do like a wrestle rock video so if I could get back up to wrestle rubio you come into town. for Earth, will you? Will you show your great rapid skillful soya? My rattling still yeah the. Shawn Michaels laughed as Ashok yet. To do that in this. Why didn't WANNA do it? This is what the these. LOCAL GROUPS ERA AD agency had a it. And my final. How much did you ate the rest? Greg Gone. was once I started doing it. I didn't like it. It was wrong. Right but you know. he should have done it with a lake, a Kenny mayor, or Saade some bustard. It was it was it was my fault? slaughtered told me about it and I thought it would be good, but it. It didn't work out very good. Nice. I personally love gray gone. Yeah, as a member of the Cobra court I loved Rambo Gray Ganja and I bought the forty five wrestle rock. Rumble Tommy so I. Don't know I'm sure you did. Made history because really only one. And I thought you. Rapping skills were phenomenal Oh, yeah. Would be Ken. resnick outside, Ken, resnick thought. Did. When I'll, vincent stole dollar just kept stealing our talent. WHO's at young lady that just came on. I think it might have been one of our computers that are saying that you're running out of time and. Given me the Right I won't talk any more than. Love to do it again with you. There's a Lotta great stories about the those personalities that we talked about today that those inside stories. Kenneth Saving for what I'd like to do, but maybe we could work something out doing right here and. You know what that's always a possibility. I, mean we. We have our live show Monday through Saturday nine to noon on Sirius Xm. We also have the Sirius Xm podcast. It's doing very well plus our video, and on demand on the SIRIUSXM APP. So so, Greg. You're welcome to come on. And who knows. Maybe we might be able to do something in the future. We would love it all right well. Thank you guys for me on. It was nice talking with Y'all Tommy good senior again. Likewise, my friend take care of her personality love for professional wrestling. Appreciate that, so if you thank you are a great guy, and now I'm retired I. Bet head three back surgeries I find out. Wednesday September fourth one Thursday. Oh, well, we're our thoughts and prayers are with these stop doing drop kicks and maybe. Fell in the parking lot at work. And I know how to fall. exploded. L. Three no four bang three months later after had that surgery at the foreign five. We'll take it easy. Be Safe at thanks so much for the time. Well, thank you very much. They seen y'all. Great joining US Tommy and this is A. Little pleasure. WHO's let's? No, we're of you been. All, the good luck in one comes on. MICKIE JAMES DURING AWA run in wedding. Ben. WHAT THE HELL! Again. Look tell it on. Guys you guys are doing a running on the AWA show. They barely had any women there. They just had sharing Medusa. Cancer a lot. Good Luck, ladies! bye-bye, thank you Mr Ganja. Thank you take. Care Call Me Greg. Awesome stuff Tommy from Greg, Gone Yeah just amazing stories from somebody who really gets overlooked because I think people look at him as vern, Ganja, son, but you know what one hell of a wrestler in the ring and definitely somebody that has a mind for professional wrestling, and another bombshell dropped about what would have been with that wrestling business if Hogan would have stayed in. In the whole CBS Wrestlemainia. Three main event would never may have never have happened. We are dropping bombshells on the show I with Greg. Valentine Midlands at that Eddie he had a deal with companies and now this. Wow, thanks, man! It was awesome. Yeah, man, thanks to Gray Guardian thanks to you. The Busted Open Asian remembering the territory's the AWA right here. I'm busted open. This has been an busted opens a W. Eight Territory Special Schick Sirius. XM demand for more serious except vacation content, and follow us on twitter at busted. Open radio.

American wrestling association wrestling Campbell Tommy Greg wrestling Jim Ryan Hogan Jesse Ventura Jim vern Sirius United States AWA Ray Stevens Nick Bach Winkle Minneapolis Greg Ganja MINNESOTA Tommy Dreamer Verne CHICAGO
WWE vs WCW - Titan Rising | 1

Business Wars

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

WWE vs WCW - Titan Rising | 1

"<music> it's June nineteen eighty he to and Vince McMahon is in a suite at the plush Warwick Hotel in midtown Manhattan he's thirty six years old with a puppet or Hairdo and he's here to make the deal of his life a deal with his sixty seven year old dad Vincent McMahon Senior Vince opens his briefcase case and pulls out multiple copies of the contract that will give his company Titan sports control of the World Wrestling Federation back in Nineteen fifty. Four Vincent senior founded the organization that would ultimately become the WWF now. He's ready to retire tire the WWF is one of thirty regional wrestling organizations operating in the United States and Canada each controls their own slice of territory and they all stay out of each other's way the WWF owns the northeastern U. S. one of the most lucrative territories of all vincent stares at the contracts and the coffee table he never wanted his son to follow him into the wrestling business he hoped Vince would forge a career rear outside that rough and tumble world but his son is obsessed with wrestling and nothing will deter them from pursuing his dream not not the WWF million dollar price tag nor the clause in the contract that will return control of WWF to his dad if he fails to pay every every installment on time Vincent flips through the contract and points to that paragraph son you do understand that you will lose everything if few missed just one payment right. Vince not do dad and I'm fine with Vincent instant size and reluctantly signs each copy of the contract Vince leaps to his feet grinning AIDS time to celebrate eight as Vince leaves to get wasted in the Hotel Bar Vincent Shakes his head he knows his son is funding the buyout of the WWF with shaky loans secured against future cash flow. He's certain that Vince will lose everything but what Vincent doesn't know is that his son has big big plans. Vince isn't going to be just another regional wrestling excellent promoter like his PAS oh no vince plans to turn the WWF into the biggest wrestling company. The world has has ever seen but to do it. He must declare war on the regional promotions that have ruled wrestling for decades and he's going going to attack his rivals so unrelentingly that they never get a chance to strike back. People start companies for a variety of reasons. Maybe they're passionate about a product they've created or maybe they loved the freedom of being their own boss us but there's one thing all businesses having Colin in order to be successful. You've got to get the word out. People need to know your story and the best way way to tell that story is with a beautiful professional website from wicks dot com with wicks you can start by building aside from scratch or choose a beautiful template template then customize it to look and perform exactly the way you want and if you need to get online fast just answer a few simple questions and wicks is will instantly build a website just for you complete with design images and text. Now's the time to tell your story. WICKS DOT COM is the place I used to make it happen. Get started today and build a website. You'll be proud love and if you go to Wicks dot com and use the coupon code. VW You'll get ten percent off off when you're ready to go premium that's Wicks dot com code. Bw for ten percent off any premium plan from wondering I'm David Brown and this is business wars uh and in our new series WWF versus WCW we're looking behind the curtain into the world of pro wrestling today wrestling is dominated by by one hulking giant. W W E A billion dollar media empire notorious for the outrageous antics of its world famous sports parts entertainers but it wasn't always that way wrestling began as a CD carnival show masquerading as a sport but after the Second World War or it morphed into a business controlled by regional promoters who worked together under the banner of the National Wrestling Alliance as long as each wrestling organization Asian operated in their lane there was peace but now it's the nineteen eighties and Vince McMahon is out to shatter that piece he's about to start Dr Business war as action packed and full of twists as any wrestling show but unlike their wrestling matches this war will not be staged it it will pit the World Wrestling Federation Against World Championship wrestling in a title match that will see wrestling catapulted from small-time two billion dollar glory. This is episode one Titan rising it September nineteen eighty-three and Vince McMahon's eating an enormous steak and the tenderloin room the Chase Hotel in Saint Louis. He's wearing wearing an eye catching bright red suit and his dining companion is Ted cop ler cobbler owns the Saint Louis. TV Station K. P. L. R. and McMahon has come to him with the proposition ted you should ditch the Saint Louis Wrestling Club let. WWF produce wrestling at the chase for you. Instead Copter raises an eyebrow. KPI Lars been taping wrestling at the chase from the chase hotel since nineteen fifty nine. It's one of his stations highest rated shows and why would I wanna do that bins because our shows kick ass. WWF is the future of wrestling we giving the people what they really want biggest wrestling star stories that make fans go wild and action. That doesn't just stay in the ring. You see Ted you you see. I want wrestling to appeal to everyone. I'm going to take wrestling beyond chain smoking old ladies and the drunken roughnecks you see I'm GonNa make it entertainment attainment for all the family cobbler hesitate he likes what McMahon is pitching but most kp l. our viewers of never heard of the WWF W. F. Vince People here love the Saint Louis wrestlers and overproduction of wrestling at the chase the WWF and that's a little risky Sqi for us. Ted Wants your viewers. Get a load of our wrestlers. I guarantee they'll forget the Saint Louis guys we got Andre the giant come on what Saint Louis God coppers got no answer for that Andre. The giant is a man of freakshow proportions. He's seven foot four Frenchmen who weighs five hundred and forty pounds next to him. Every other wrestler looks tiny sensing copper's resistance is waning McMahon goes in for the kill also will pay you two thousand dollars in episode and a cut of the ticket sales from. WWF's live events. It's in Saint Louis but you say cobbler almost chokes on his stake. He's been paying the Saint Louis Wrestling Club fifteen hundred dollars an an episode typically television companies pay the wrestling promoters to make the show and then keep the lion's share of the ad revenue. You're going to pay us us all right then. It's another victory for McMahon since buying the WWF. He's been racking coming up the air miles striking similar deals pushing rivals off the air across the country to make room for the WWF syndicated TV show and with each new TV deal the WWF gains another foothold in territory controlled by rival wrestling companies and this boosts WWF earnings from ticket sales for its live events and TV ads but to really dominate wrestling WWF needs a national TV presence and to get that McMahon has his sights set on cable TV. Trouble is his rivals of already locked up the top two cable channels. Ted Turner's TBS is airing Georgia championship wrestling while the USA Network is Broadcasting San Antonio's southwest championship wrestling what Mcmahon needs is a way to muscle in both its October nineteen eighty-three and in New York City the USA networks executive team are seated in the conference room at the head of the table dressed in a light blue power suit is is K. Koplowitz. She's the company's blond-haired CEO and founder and she's just been told that last night's broadcast of southwest championship wrestling link sparked a barrage of complaints. What have they done now. The wrestlers hurled pig manure. You're at each other. KOPLOWITZ scowls pig manure. What never mind leave it with me. I'll deal with him. coblets returns to her office ready to chew out southwest championship wrestling over its latest dumb move but before she can call her phone rings. It's Jim Troy senior. Vice President of Titan sports the company that owns. WWF Vince Swing man asked me to give you a call he just heard about your trouble with southwest championship wrestling and <hes> we think we can help really <hes> the house. Oh what they did. Last night was gross. It's everything that's wrong with wrestling go on if you give southwest primetime sometimes slot to WWF. We'll give you a wrestling show. That's PG rated and better produced. No more poorly lit studio shoots no more blood and no more pig excrement. It'll be wrestling for the whole family. KOPLOWITZ bites. She dumps southwest championship wrestling on December fifth nineteen eighteen eighty three. WW APPS all American wrestling show debuts on the USA network in one fell swoop Vince McMahon in his made WWF available in the twenty four million homes that subscribed the USA network what he needs now is a wrestling star Dr who can get all those homes watching its December nineteen eighty-three and Vern Ganja. The owner of the American Wrestling Association is in his Minneapolis Office checking the morning mail like other wrestling promoters. Ganja has been watching the WWF advance warily but he's not threatened his territory stretches over huge swaths of the Midwest and he's got some of wrestling's biggest stars on his roster. Mr Like Hulk Hogan six-foot-seven Mountain of muscle with receding long blonde hair a handlebar moustache and a tan so deep. He's got the skin tone of a hotdog American Wrestling Association fans love Hogan's over the top performances and his signature move the leg drop where he leaps into into the air and brings his leg down hard on his opponents throat but he's also got mainstream notoriety. Thanks to his role and rocky three in in his male gonyea finds curt telegram from Hogan it reads. I'm not coming back. Gonyea thinks this this has got to be a prank but he soon realizes that Hogan's really gone. Hogan's frustrated with Gonyea for some time despite despite Hogan's popularity GONYEA refuses to script a show where Hogan gets to be champion because he doesn't believe the wrestler's technical abilities reached that level so so McMahon has lured Hogan Away with the promise that he'll be crowned the WWF champion McMahon plans to make Hogan a Megastar January nineteen eighty-four and Madison Square Square Garden is shaking the roar of more than twenty thousand wrestling vans. They're here to see Hogan. Take on the current. WWF champion Iranian wrestler Ciller the Iron Sheik as the Iron Sheik Strut surround the ring wearing an Arabian Kefiah headdress in the title Bill. The Fans Boo in his memories of the Iran hostage crisis are still fresh in their minds and they're desperate to see an American hero beat him down the arena screens cut to show Hogan limbering up backstage. He's dressed in yellow trunks in a tight red vest emblazoned with the words American made Hogan crosses himself and stomps toward the ring as he enters the arena. The fans go wild various has polka mania home all way up up ready for this artist it implies into the man tears off his red vest flings it into the stands and strikes a pose pointing his arm skyward at at a forty five degree angle to the cheering crowd the showdown begins. Hogan quickly establishes dominance flinging the iron sheik around the ring and slammed hard onto the map but then the tables turn the iron sheik stages a comeback knocking Hogan to the floor Lord before jumping on his back and locking him in a seemingly unbreakable home then to the crowd's delight the huckster breaks free after some exaggerated stumbling around the ring hoping kicks the chic to the floor and to finish him off Hogan leaps into the air and slams his right leg down on the sheiks. The frenzied crowd is overjoyed. Hulkamania has begun soon <music>. Hogan is turning up everywhere urging people to train to say their prayers and to eat their vitamins. He's on Saturday night live. He's on the cover of sports illustrated he starring eighteen using Hogan's celebrity status. WWF starts building lucrative merchandising business that spawns Hulk Hogan action figures workout sets vitamins and closed and even a cartoon series and his Hoven Star rises so does ww APPs soon wwf his a pop culture sensation with MTV specials in a-list celebrity liberty fans including Mr T. Cindy lauper and even Andy Warhol Andy Warhol your impressions of what took place earlier on here. I'm speechless what you've got to be. I mean so many I mean I saw jaws. Drop to the to the floor. It's so exciting. I just don't know what to say okay have you have you ever seen such total bedlam and pandemonium in your entire life never your impressions of the Coca Mania is shredding the competition next to the colorful outrageous world of WWF wrestling's old-guard look stale they watch in horror as WWF. Do you have steals their TV. Audiences ticket sales and top wrestlers and Vince McMahon's blitzkrieg isn't over yet. It's April nineteen eighty-four and McMahon is in the Atlanta Fulton County stadium in Georgia watching an Atlanta Braves baseball game sitting next to him is Ted Turner the Brash multimillionaire owner of the braves and founder of Turner Broadcasting the cable TV giant behind National Cable Network Tbs a few days ago. McMahon made a shrewd move he bought out Georgia Georgia championship wrestling by doing that he got control of the two prime time wrestling shows it makes for tbs so now. Turner and McMahon man are getting to know each other a little better turner's excited about the takeover he loves wrestling and believes McMahon could boost the ratings of TBS as world world championship wrestling show but Turner wants to be sure WWF will deliver so as the braves score another strike. He turns to McMahon Vance. My viewers want to see the wrestlers they know. I don't want to repackage footage from. WWF's other TV shows it was a mind Edward. Macmahon leans over to turn Tad. I want this relationship to work for both of us. Turner gives McMahon abroad broad smile. He believes he can trust him. It's December nine thousand nine hundred four and WWF WF is riding high its rivals are in disarray. Hulkamania is bigger than ever and WWF wacky wrestling talk show Tuesday night titans is the highest rated show on cable TV but McMahon's ambitions are only getting bigger it just hours after returning from a Caribbean vacation. He summons his top team to a meeting in Titan Sports headquarters in Greenwich Connecticut. I was lying on the beach in this idea of popped into my head Wrestlemainia the super bowl of wrestling. It'll be an extravaganza so you'll have the the biggest wrestler celebrity guests rockstars. The works will sell tickets for the show and telecast live in movie theaters gators. It'll make millions. The team exchange concerned looks. One of the finance team pipes up. I'm not sure we can afford Ford that Vance. We're still renting type writers because the cash flow so tight what you're talking about will cost a fortune renting movie theaters paying celebrities. He's I mean at this thing bombs. It'll take down the whole business but McMahon's heart is set on Wrestlemainia and he's a heart over head. Kinda guy back. It's going to work so we're doing it. I wanted to happen at the end of March before. The seasonal drop off in ticket sales for our live shows gay. I bet it will boost who's ticket sales over the summer team gulps. They got three months to deliver an promote. The biggest wrestling show ever made a show that will either see. WWF become the king of the ring or brought to its knees. Business Wars is sponsored by audible audible has the world's largest selection of audiobooks and audio entertainment including audible originals audible audible originals are stories created exclusively for audio including documentaries exclusive audiobooks and scripted shows that you can't hear anywhere else right now. I'm I'm listening to an audible original called it burns the scandal-plagued race to breed the world's hottest Chili. Sometimes you just need to hear a story that completely jolts you out of your own head and this one is really doing that for me. It's wild. It's funny. It's about so much more than Chili's with convenient audible APP. You can listen anytime anywhere on any device Mobile Alexa Enabled Bluetooth and more as a member you can easily exchange any title you don't love at anytime plus you get to keep if your library of listens even if you cancel start listening with a thirty day audible trial choose one audiobook and to audible originals absolutely free bizet audible dot com slash W. or text b w two five hundred five hundred that's audible dot com slash. VW or text B W two five hundred five hundred ever wondered how to invest more struggled to understand how to make your money work for you. Will you probably want to hear about the Motley fool then the Motley fool was founded twenty five years ago in a garage by brothers Tom and David Gardner in those twenty five years. Motley fool members got access astor recommendations like AOL in Nineteen ninety-four before you got Mayo was a movie Amazon in Nineteen ninety-seven before Prime Day was the thing net flicks in two thousand four before you were binging stranger things and Marvel Now Walt Disney in two thousand four when Toby Maguire was still dill spiderman every month. Tom And David each pick a stock and provide a deep dive. In analysis exclusively for members of their stock advisor service members get exclusive access to the stock advisor website with daily updates that cut through the noise of the financial market. So what are you waiting for. Go to fool dot com slash beat W to learn more and acclaiming exclusive discount only for listeners it's early nineteen eighty-five and Turner Broadcasting's New York office Vince McMahon and Ted Turner are tearing into each other Vance. You promise me wrassling show oh filled in Atlanta instead. You're giving my network secondhand garbage that you've already shown on the USA network and local TV. I'm telling you this is bullcrap. Turner's frustration station has been building for months so he's lined up mid south wrestling to replace. WWF on his network McMahon knows this but he's not letting turner push him around. What's unacceptable. Is Your refusal to share any advertising revenue with us every other TV network. I work with including. USA gives me cut the AD money and Ted you should too. We pay you to make the show. The AD money is ours. I'm telling you I want you off my network and if I have to Assu to get rid of you. I Will McMahon Glares at Turner boiling with rage. A legal showdown with Turner is the last thing he needs wrestlemanias draining his company coffers. Fast tickets for the wrestling spectacular aren't selling if things don't change soon titan sports could go under McMahon wants to throw the TV mogul out the window but instead he leaps to his feet in storms storms out but he knows Georgia championship wrestling is worthless to him without its shows on Turner's network so he decides sides to sell the business before Turner King Kick Him off the air. The buyer is North Carolinas. Jim Crockett promotions. The price one million dollars McMahon walks away without a loss and enough cash to buy some time. It's March twenty seven nineteen eighty five and wrestlemanias four days away. A desperate bid to boost ticket sale's Hulk Hogan appears on the cable TV talk show hot properties back with the only only I was gonna say one and only the one and only Mr T. and me Mr B so let's take some calls. Oh you're on the air midway through the interview host Richard Bells Urges Hogan to put him in a wrestling hold reluctantly Hogan obliges. He wraps his thick arm around the skinny hosts neck putting him into a front. Chin Lot seconds later beltre's body goes win the because panic Hogan releases the lock in Belgium fall smashing his head onto the hard studio floor Hogan Stares down at the unconscious unconscious chat show host. He's waking up now. That was a lot of people a days beller climbs to his feet. There's blood gushing shing from the back of his head and he has to be rushed to the hospital midway through the live. Show the next day. The story is all over the news and it's just the publicity implicity boost wrestlemainia needs it's march thirty first nineteen eighty five and backstage ax stage at Madison Square Garden and Ecstatic Vince McMahon looks out onto a packed house nineteen thousand eager fans all waiting for Wrestlemainia to start the bells are incident created a last minute rush for tickets to see McMahon's wrestling super bowl. The Movie Theaters Broadcasting Wrestlemainia live are packed as well across the nation tens of thousands of excited fans are in their seats waiting to see wrestlers like Hogan Andre Trey the giant Rub shoulders with Celebrity Guests Muhammad Ali Mr T. and liberace Wrestlemainia grosses four million dollars that night alone previously unimaginable some for a wrestling show a year later wrestlemainia returns turns is a three hour event taking place in New York Chicago and Los Angeles. It's also a chance for WWF to venture into the brand new world of pay per view TV at the time. Only two point five million homes have access to pay per view television but one hundred thousand of those households all souls pay fifteen dollars to watch wrestlemainia to live by the time wrestlemania three rolls around March nineteen eighty-seven ten million homes homes are wired for pay per view and Wrestlemainia three grosses more than ten million dollars from pay per view alone and those millions have have not gone unnoticed in the New Dallas headquarters of Jim Crockett promotions since buying Georgia championship wrestling Jim Crockett. It's been moving fast. He's bought out most of the wrestling promotions in the south now. He's announced his plan to put his annual. Thanksgiving wrestling show star cade on pay per view TV just days later a worried bursts into Crockett's office jim the the WWF doing a new pay per view survivor series. It's going to air at the same time as stark. Aid Crockett sinks into his office chair in curses. He knows he can't go head to head with. WWF All right. Here's what we do. We move star Cave from Thanksgiving evening to the afternoon. McMahon isn't letting Crockett escape that easy after learning of Star Cage Time Change he orders his team to tell every cable operator in America that if they run Crockett's pay per view they won't get survivor series or next year's wrestlemainia cable operators dropped star cade like a hot potato by Thanksgiving. Just five cable operators are offering Crockett's pay per view. The event earns Crockett a piddling eighty thousand dollars in comparison. WWF survivor series grosses more than five million million bucks in January nineteen eighty eight Crockett returns with another pay per view but once again McMahon man kicks the legs out from under him with Royal Rumble <hes> Free TV special broadcast at the same time on the USA network more than three million wrestling alling fans decide to watch WWF show rather than shell out money for Crockett's pay per view fuming Crockett tries giving McMahon at taste taste of his own medicine he announces a free TV special on Turner's TBS network. There will air at the same time as Wrestlemainia four but all that does is is anger cable operators who feel Crockett trying to reduce their earnings from wrestlemainia then in April nineteen eighty-eight. Crockett's accountant delivers a knockout blow. He tells Crockett that his wrestling promotions out of cash he's looking at bankruptcy Crockett's. It's got no choice but to sell his southern wrestling empire. It's November nineteen. Eighty eight and Vince McMahon is in his office in Titan Towers. WWF New glass fronted headquarters in Stamford Connecticut. He's sifting through his team's initial ideas for next year's Wrestlemainia. When his phone rings he picks up and hears a familiar voice? Hey Vince Ted Turner here. Just thought you should know I'm I'm in the wrassling business now. I just bought out Jim Crockett well. Blah hobby senior round McMahon stares at his phone in shock until now he's never worried about the competition Asian he always regarded the old school wrestling promoters as lazy and short-sighted easy prey but Turner Broadcasting's purchase of Crockett's empire is a game changer. McMahon is now up against a wrestling promotion owned by a multibillion dollar cable TV network a arrival with guaranteed airtime and near endless financial resources arrival owned by a powerful man McMahon once crossed the WWF is about to face its most fearsome challenger yet on the next episode sewed scandal engulfs the WWF a gun toting cowboy arrives in CNN center and wrestling infiltrates Disneyworld <music> from wondering this is business wars hope you enjoyed this episode. It's been a lot of fun. Please subscribe on Apple podcasts spotify Google podcast stitcher iheartradio or wherever you're listening right now. There's a link on the episode notes just tap or Swipe of the cover art. You'll also see some offers from our sponsors and we hope you'll support our show by supporting them. Hey listen if you like what you've heard we would love it. If you give us a five star rating and you tell your friends how to subscribe and you can support us another way to by answering a short survey at wondering dot com slash survey. Don't forget to tell us what business four stories. You'd like like to hear something. We should say about conversations in this episode. We can't know exactly what was said but this dialogue is based on our best research. I'm your host David Brown now. Tristan Donovan wrote this story. Karen lows our senior producer and editor Donna. Hi edited this story our editors and producers Jimmy Lower Beckmann sound design by bay area sound. Our executive producer is Marshall Louis created by Ernon Lopez four wondering <music>.

World Wrestling Federation Vince McMahon wrestling Ted Turner McMahon Vance United States Hulk Hogan Hogan Andre Trey Jim Crockett National Wrestling Alliance American Wrestling Association Saint Louis Wrestling Club Vincent McMahon W. F. Vince Turner Broadcasting Titan sports liberace Wrestlemainia Saint Louis Chase Hotel VW
Dark Side of the Ring & CM Punk on WWE Backstage

Busted Open

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

Dark Side of the Ring & CM Punk on WWE Backstage

"If you don't know Sirius. Xm THAN LISTEN UP Commercial Free Music Plus sports comedy talk and news. They have it all and right now you can get your first three months of Sirius. Xm outside the car for just one dollars go to SIRIUSXM DOT com slash busted to see offer details and to subscribe offer available to new series Xm streaming subscribers siriusxm. No car required. This is the busted open podcast. You can listen to the full show Monday through Saturday from nine. Am to noon eastern on Sirius. Xm Channel One fifty six. Welcome to the busted open. Podcast this is Dave Greco on today's episode. We get it too dark side of the ring from last night and the whole tragedy of Jimmy. Superfly Snuka we get into that. Of course my side as being a lifelong fan and especially when I was a kid a big fan of Jimmy stuck in how my perception may have changed after that episode of of dark side of the ring. Also we get into impact wrestling with our very own. Tommy Dreamer the innovator of violence a landlord of the House of hardcore. And somebody that we don't normally talk on busted open. Ed is action. Mike Jackson we get into that from impact wrestling last night. And of course bully the greatest tag team wrestler of all time. Wwe Hall of Famer. We get into dark side of the ring with Jimmy. Stucco we get into. Wwe backstage with punk. And of course. The comments of Ron aroused is definitely a hot topic. All Week Long we get into all of that right now on the busted open. Podcast feels good to talk pro wrestling each and every day with you again use the Hashtag ask busted open on twitter and I can get to your comments and your questions also on facebook. And then hopefully who knows man fingers crossed? Say Your prayers each your vitamins. Maybe just maybe we'll be taking some phone calls in the very very near future. I gotta be honest with you man. You know Gabby guns Mike and in our in in Robert and Marisa. They're all working tirelessly behind the scenes to try to make this show as normal for you. The listener as possible so as we keep getting adjusted to our world. I think we're GONNA see a lot more elements of what this show used to be. And hopefully you know little by little. You're seeing those things as listeners in this show is for you and this show is definitely for myself and Bowling Tommy Love talking pro wrestling with the busted open nation at the end of this month. Believe it or not on the twenty eighth of this month. It's going to be eleven years. That busted open is been on Aaron thanks to you. We're the number one sports talk show here on Sirius. Xm So the reason we hit these heights was because of you. The busted open nation so everyone behind the scenes. A lot of the people that you don't get to see but you hear their names that I call out each and every day are really working our asses off to bring you this show so thankful to them and I'm certainly thankful for you and there's always I keep saying I preach at each and every day there is so much to talk about in the world to pro wrestling in about thirty minutes. We're going to have you know my tag team partner the greatest tag team wrestler of all time. Wwe Hall of Famer. That's bully ray and then in about ten minutes. We're going to have the innovator of violence the landlord of the House of Hardcore Tommy Dreamer and I love having Tommy on Wednesday mornings because we could talk a little impact wrestling because there's a lot to talk about in the world of impact wrestling after watching that show last night and then there's a lot to talk about in you know there wasn't a raw last night there wasn't a smackdown last night. There was an eighty. W there wasn't an annex t but Tuesday nights has become must watch nights for pro wrestling fans because you know you have nwea and I can't wait for NWEA power to come back full force. You have impact wrestling but now you have dark side of the ring in. Wwe backstage and there's a lot of news coming from wwe backstage and dark side of the ring last night and we'll get into wwe backstage especially bullying. I because see 'em punk was on the show and unfortunately when it comes to backstage and a lot of people like the tune in to hear what. I'm punk ass to say you really don't know when CNN punk is going to be on the show it's kind of hit or miss. It seems like it's be. Oh maybe what once every four or five weeks punk is on the show but man when he is on the show he really gives ya a lot of good information some good opinions and I think he was very opinionated. When it came to Ronda Rousey his comments that she's made and obviously been talking a lot about here on busted open and you know somebody who was in both worlds. Three Fin- May indefinitely unsuccessful. And then to the height of heights in the world of pro wrestling Siham punk is very good person to talk about those comments. So we'll get into that with bullying Tommy for sure but I WANNA get into dark side of the ring and you know for me. You know I'm GonNa be forty nine in July. I'm an old old school wrestling fan. I've been watching pro wrestling since nineteen eighty two and when you look at that year of nineteen eighty to eighty two eighty three the beginnings of one thousand nine hundred eighty four. There was no wrestler. Bigger then Jimmy superfly SNUKA and a lot of people a lot of younger fans by shake their head at that because you know when you think of the eighties at that time you might throw out a Babak. You certainly throw out a whole cogan. You throw out a nature boy ric flair. But I'm telling you end of eighty two eighty three and the beginning of Nineteen eighty-four. There was nobody bigger than Jimmy. Superfly SNUKA and when I say that I'm even talking in the world of the WWF hike there is. There's no doubt but for a while there it was neck and neck and before Hogan came to the WWF. It certainly was Jimmy Superfly. Snuka to the point to the point you go back and you watch that cage match in one thousand nine hundred eighty two between Bob maclennan Jimmy superfly SNUKA. That was like the first time you actually saw somebody who was A. He'll somebody who was a bad guy. Somebody who is that that that he'll wrestling PERSADA getting jeered. Like Jimmy. Superfly SNUKA did when he challenged Bob Dylan for that WWF championship. He kind of made it cool to root for the bag I and then he became a baby face and there was nobody bigger wanted. A greatest foods of all time was the feud between Jimmy superfly Snuka in Morocco for that Intercontinental Championship. Back in one thousand nine hundred eighty three and obviously for obvious reasons if you watched a dark side to ring last night you understand why. His legacy is definitely been tainted why he's not really spoken about in terms of the flares in the Hogan's there's reason for that one. He never won that world championship in the WWF and number two his push and definitely his main event push was cut short. We talked about in that. Watch along you can hear and see on demand on the Sirius. Xm APP and also The the busted open podcast and Tommy and I did our watch along with the first Wrestlemainia in the main event you know. Snuka was outside the ring but CITGO is supposed to be a much bigger part of the first wrestlemainia and because of the demons because of drugs and obviously because of some of the things that he was accused of Man You know just. He was truly a good subject to have for dark side of the ring. And I mentioned this on twitter and I got a little heat for it and understandably why I posted on my social media last night. David La Greco one. I posted a picture of myself. Jimmy superfly SNUKA and the CO author of his book and I said that it was going to be very very difficult for me to watch dark side during last night because I I heard of the rumors I heard the accusations. You know everybody knows that a cold case of thirty years where he was brought back to attention in two thousand fourteen a lot because of his of his book that did come out in two thousand late. Two thousand thirteen. Jimmy superfly. Snuka was a wrestler that I loved as a Kid. I mentioned on this show many times all I did was watch Georgia championship wrestling and the person that got me to. I Open my eyes to different organizations and open my eyes to the. Wwf was Jimmy. Superfly snuka seeing those pictures of him in you know in the wrestler and inside wrestling. That really opened my world up larger. When it came to pro wrestler Jimmy superfly Snuka was the catalyst for me to WANNA see more to want to absorb more. He was one of my favorite wrestlers. Foam the foam hand. The Jimmy superfly SNUKA AD poster on my wall. I was a member of the Jimmy. Superfly SNUKA FAN club back in one thousand nine hundred eighty three and I dreaded watching that dark side of the ring last night but I had to watch it because I knew it was going to be a topic on today's show and I had to watch it just because at curiosity and you know obviously they always say you know don't know you heroes don't meet your heroes and whether he was guilty or not you know you you can. You can make your you know your thoughts known and obviously this the forum to be able to do that as well who was never convicted. He obviously passed away before that trial even got going and he was incapable of even on trial. Because you know if the bench and everything else at that time in his life and he had stomach cancer he was seventy two years old and then you have to think of the victim to Nancy and what what she you know. Her family had gone through for thirty years. Not Getting Justice. But there's still the question marks if you don't know and it's GonNa be something that's a black cloud that hovers this is Luke. Thomas from Siriusxm fire nation combat sports in the entire sporting landscape have been impacted as we all face a time of uncertainty in the world. We have concerns about our family. Friends and neighbors have taken time out to focus on the important things in our lives and be safe. One thing that we can be sure of is that will push through this difficult time together. Whatever happens in the world of combat sports and beyond will be here for you siriusxm fire nation. In the meantime you could join us for live. Sports talk on mad dog. Sports Radio Channel Eighty two and Sirius. Xm NFL Radio Channel Eighty Eight. And there's a lot to get into with Tommy as well not only dark side the Durang but also impact wrestling from last night and I bring in the innovator of violence the landlord of the House of Hardcore Tommy Dreamer Tommy. How are you this morning? Good morning our you. I'm good man and there's a lot to get into and time is short so I wanNA definitely dive in I on. I actually texted you last night as it was happening. Watching impact wrestling got me excited. Because near the beginning of that show we saw the man and he's seventy years old then probably one of the best wrestlers that we saw over the course of the last week and that is action might Jackson on impact wrestling last night. How cool is that to see my Jackson and action dude? I had to push and had to take so much Slack from everybody when I kept pushing for Mike Jackson and like he's seventy years old and I was just like just let it happen and I had to just eat a Lotta crow because of that going into it and the setup was great because Johnny Swinger from UC w he plays retro character. Who's great at it he's A. He's a pro wrestler that hasn't grown up Like a lot of wrestlers haven't From the nineties or the eighties. But he's more of a nineties guy and he kept saying that he was he messed it up he was supposed to say. I'm bringing one of the young bucks Mr Jackson so you didn't know which young buck you would have been because he was trying to be cool and trying to be happy. And that was the setup for the week before. But he's 'em Jackson so you know. I like the Internet where they were saying. Would it be Michael Jackson which obviously couldn't be but You know then it was like who was the young buck and then it was Mike Tax and he cut a hell of a promo and when he walked out there. He walked out there to crickets like there was there was no response and even the locker room that day. You know everyone was just like who is this old man that looked like a shrunken version of Vern Ganja and when he went out there and moved away he did when he did a suicide dive to the floor which swing her just caught him and I was like. Oh my God. He almost crashed and burned and He just tore it up and seventy years old. I say he's he's such an inspiration and Man I couldn't have been happier because at the end when I tell you the the locker room backstage was a complete sellout. 'cause they were everybody's waiting for this man to fail and you know we had talked about it Previously about People Watch television for sometimes people have failed and he just like. Did you know 'cause I did pretty much the same thing at the House of hardcore show and you know you there and he tore it up and if you could get over in that front of that Philadelphia crowd where they were chanting his name and again. Here's a seventy year old and I had to set it up way telling every you know you have to tell the world that this man is seventy and the match that he had. I couldn't have been happier in that the backstage Everybody knew his name and was celebrating and putting them over and he was just like Francsico car. Thank you thank you. But because it's something he's been doing for fifty years the best part about it was too. I called him up and I was just checking up on them because he is. You know seventy and he is in that range for to be more at risk and we're talking I worry about my parents too and I was like excuse me. He's like yeah but both my parents are still alive and I was just like they ask how old your parents already goes on. My Dad's like ninety three. You still walk two miles a day and my mom is Dan. She's gotTa be like ninety or ninety one. I don't really know. But when he said it reminded me of the mental bombs when he said his parents were still alive Because I'm from Seinfeld because I I'm talking to seventy year old man and he has the same concerns as me for my mom but I was like man. I want to see if I could get his father on. Television wants to solve clears up. I'm watching with my wife and my wife like you couldn't get a more perfect seventy year old. This is a key is chiseled out a stone. I mean just in amazing shape and he's in some better shape than some of the wrestlers that we see on a weekly basis that we cover here on busted open but like you said doing the suicide dive outside the ring. I mean I got scared I was like. Oh my God I hope. His head doesn't hit the steel the steel and then like doing the walk across the entire ring on the top rope. You know that you know like you know old school was truly old school and I think actually Josh Matthews told that line from the back as he actually did say a shrunken vern. Ganja but man to see somebody at that age work at that high a level and I actually got some text messages from friends that watch impact wrestling. That didn't know who Mike Jackson was. Shame on you by the way if you don't know who Mike Jackson is but like you know like who is this guy. How old is this guy like? I've never heard of this guy. He's he's amazing and I never it. Here's the thing Tommy. I never get text messages like that. You know of all the new wrestlers that we see on a week to week basis across the board on all these shows to be able to get those types of messages to. Let's face it Tommy. For most of his career he was enhancement talent and now he's probably moreover at the age of seventy than he's ever been in his entire career. Absolutely I one of my favorite lines at Don. Kelly said he's like you could tell us from a different generation. 'cause actually in shape with just hops because he plays a heel character but Yeah you know. And then also like he was like. Hey man he's on. You guys need me love to come back. I was like Mike With everything that's going on we wanted to bring you back but we just kind of have to wait because we don't WanNa put you at risk because of you know you fall into that category and you were such a positive and such an inspiration. We don't want people to tag it with a negative and saying oh how could impact wrestling put someone out there Of that age during this time so hopefully once everything gets back to normal we could see Mike Jackson Return to impact wrestling because man he he tore it up and I wish everybody could see the backstage on that. Because it was a bunch of young men and women Just really really celebrating their love for his passion and how great he worked and just for him. It was just another day and he's been wrestling steady his entire career like he works like four. To five days a week he likes fishing he plays softball and he wrestles and that sort of been doing for the last. You know since I WANNA say. He went off television in the early eighties when he was just you know he was the guy who had just solid matches what guys and got beat and also for the record the he still is the Alabama junior heavyweight champion. Sergei titles on the line. 'cause that match took place in Atlanta champion. Yes No it was a non title match and had to be. He didn't even have the title with them. So even if he wasn't he wouldn't be able to get it But you know I was watching you know and you know me. I'm I'm the wrestling nerd. I was watching world championship wrestling from one thousand. Nine hundred eighty five and and Mike Jackson was in the opening contest against the boogie. Woogie man Jimmy Valiant and you know. He was in a tag match on the next episode. I forget who is tag team partner was going up against the fantasticks and that was the great thing about my Jackson. Is that each. And every week you saw them against heels and faces because he would be he would be guy that would shake hands with his opponent and everything else but never won and this is back in nineteen like think about the. I'm watching wrestling from nineteen eighty five. Tommy and I can honestly say without hesitation that he looks better now in two thousand and twenty than he did in nineteen eighty-five. Actually you know what he looks younger in two thousand twenty that he did it. I did eighty five absolutely I couldn't believe when I first saw him. I saw him on Indie show and I told you about it and I sent you a pitcher and I was just like what a joke this is like you know. I'm just looking at this. And no one. I saw him wrestle. I was like get out of town and from there. You know I worked another show with him. I worked show with him and let me explain to you that before. Everything went crazy he. I worked with that Thursday For Him and he went twenty five minutes on Thursday nights for a charity show. He took a Mitch mcco driver from the top rope and continued the match and he just tore it up but that weekend we had shows down Atlanta. He had Thursday Friday. Saturday Sunday We were there for three days and he had a double shot on Friday. He couldn't make the Friday show so he wrestled five times that week alone one of the matches was twenty five minutes amazing. And then you know and last night he was able to to watch himself on the cable. You know that's when I called them just you know. I always checking on them and when he told me and he doesn't taxed I think he has the original cell phone but When he told me. Oh everyone's been calling me all my friends. Tell me they see beyond the cable. I walked it. That's a different generation and God bless him and I. I was so happy for that because if he would have bombed. Oh my God I would have had to eat so much from you. Know Don Callous and Scott d'amore but man he just he just tore it up. He was fantastic indefinitely. One of the highlights from impact wrestling which each and every week. You know a lot of people. Don't talk about it and they should because I I think it's definitely one of the better shows each and every week and it just keeps getting better and better and the fact that you could see action. My Jackson on on the show itself tells you right there. It's one of the better shows of the week We talking about the cable on the cable. Last night was dark cited Rang Tommy and I tweeted out before the show and I was just telling the nation before you joined us. That was a difficult episode. Was Not looking forward to watching that episode last night. And you know I it still as many questions as there was going in today's show. I still think there's a lot of questions coming out and you know. What did you think overall of dark side of the ring last night? It was a great tweet that you put out there because it was my feelings as well and I totally disagree with the one statement of. Don't ever meet your heroes because Jimi was nothing but cool to me every single time I was with him and towards the end of his career especially during the time of his book I was hanging out with Jimmy. A lot and same with What fought to had talked about the tongue kid I cannot see that from him and I kind felt. This was the first Show that was. I don't WanNa say biased. It was Kinda one-sided where you only had one person in his corner and they were trying to paint this picture that he was guilty and it's a horrible horrible situation. I felt bad to see both her sisters there because they've had to live with this pain for their whole life and they're fighting for her sister but it was just like I felt there was no one there for Jimmy Jimmy side except for his lovely wife. Carol who I haven't spoken to in a long time and it made me really really sad. Because like that's his wife that's who he confides in and he's telling her like how he's okay to live with this stuff because he knows what really happened and it sucks. It's an unfortunate situation. I just It was hard to watch and and I've been you know I was heavily involved in the Chris. Benoit's story which gave me closure The New Jack Story. Which just you know made me think of the craziness of what was my twenties and aspect. Kind of opened up a lot of wounds that will never there is no resolution and it was just an. I get it. I get that it's called dark side of the ring but it opened up a can of worms where I don't feel. They need to be opened up because from the courts back in the day until now there is no resolution. So it's just like you know. Do you WanNa let the man rest in peace or have his legacy tarnished. Because we don't know the answer of what happened. We really don't know we never will. Yeah and I think like you just said is is the victim with you know Nancy and then her family still having to live with this thirty years later and were there signs that this could have been a murder absolutely you know but but again like you know you. There is no resolution. You know with like you said with with the Chris Benoit Episode. You can have closure. I think that was closure for a lot of people and the happy ending. When you think of that. You Know David Ben Wah and you look at his. You know his him falling back in love with pro wrestling and and you know Nancy sister and a family getting back together. After years of being apart because of the situation that had happened. And I'm for and you know that is the ultimate sin that we saw played out over the course of that two hour first episode of season number two. But you saw that. There was closure for a lot of people to to me. Last night's episode is the opposite of that. I mean you know there's more questions coming out of that there's more arguing coming out of that and and at the end of the day there's never going to be a resolution when it's all said and done. Yeah and they just I. I can't say enough. That wasn't the person that I knew. I did not know him. You know in the eighties. there was just. There's a lot of different circumstances around this and you know this did get because of his book and like I said it was. He didn't have to put that. In my opinion he did not have to put that in his book. If it it just it opened up a whole can of worms and you know he had a co writer. All that stuff that went down I feel if he will if he wanted to cover up or hide it. He wouldn't put it in his book and his wife explained why he did it but it was just like man. I I just don't see I I can't you presented a lot of the facts. But then how does like their police miss all this stuff and it's like the first time and what thirty some odd years? They're revealing evidence on this television show It was just it was crazy then it just I just can't see it and I don't know obviously they're not gonNA interview his daughter or his son but I just felt maybe someone else should have been there to talk more on his side because it just really was. It was a dark side for Jimmy and Jimmy's not there to defend himself. And you know the the episode nine. You've been a big part of. It is after dark and they had. Brian knobs and Greg the Hammer Valentine on And then you know. They spoke about it and they had the the gentleman that opened up the the case with that article that that that small article in that Pennsylvania newspaper to kind of reopened that case and they had him on and and you know they talked about the incident from nineteen eighty three and he and he said you know the you know the the young gentlemen that wrote the article that you know he was even alive. When this took place in one thousand nine hundred and Greg Valentine was like well there. You go like you know. You don't know the circumstances and it's that's the problem is that you can take aside and you can look at certain sides of it and then you can. You can make your judgment based on that. But but the problem is there hasn't been the ultimate judgment there wasn't an ultimate judgment in one thousand nine hundred eighty three and there. Wasn't you know before Jimmy? Snuka passed away just a few years ago and you mentioned the book in. You know we had Jimmy. Snuka busted open that day. They showed the video of him. And you could see. He was wearing the same thing as the picture that I tweet it out on my social media account last night because busted open interviewed him and they showed that clip that video of Opie and Anthony. We had him on that same day where he was promoting his book and as they said in dark side of the ring. Tommy that's what reopened. The case to was by a lot of what he said that that day on our show and on Opie and Anthony because the details weren't exactly the same that he said on the air in those guest spots what he said in his book and what he said back in one thousand nine hundred eighty three so a lot of people raise their finger of judgement and say well you know. Obviously it was alive because this story keeps changing. You got to remember at this point. At that time Jimmy. Snuka was going through dementia. You know his his his his health was was not nearly as you know good it was it was bad and you know he was even at that time when we interviewed him he was just a couple of years before he passed away. So it's really hard to judge on those details as well Tommy. Because that was right near the end of his life when that book came out and he was doing his media tour. Yeah and you know it when you you're dealing with a situation like that I'm sure there's details that that I can say when there was a criminal investigation how These details weren't Seen or how they and then they're talking like of course they have to go to this cover up and Vince McMahon. You know the police officer who was interviewed. He kinda I want to say. I don't WanNa see was set up. But he was also very very casual in his answers of you know well what was nothing was in this meeting musical. What was really ever said. So there's there's just so much Man It was so much negative and I didn't like it at a hard time with it because like I said Jimmy was super cool for me to me the first time I met him and then have friendship with him and you know he was. You know for Myself Mick Foley bubba. We were all at the garden when he did that. He was somebody who inspired a generation. And yes if he had you know some drug issues but there was so much more clouds after watching that where I just don't see again where when you're writing a book if you murdered someone you don't need to put that out there in your book because the ramifications that happened if you were a guilty person and then he went and it was out there and then he had to deal with it later in his life. And it's it's it's sad and I hated you know. Here's also his his wife who again. I can't stress enough. How awesome of the person she is that she has to relive this too in the sense of. And it's not. She has to relive something that where she wasn't there. But it's shifts to relive talking. Something negative about her deceased husband. And then I said this when whole stuff wouldn't happen with Scott Steiner. And when his wife said to me can you put something out there? Because I don't want my kids to find out about this on social media for rumors and speculation and that hit me hard about like social media and something happening because for that it wasn't true and now his family asked to relive. This sodas Nancy's family but it's just so there's no resolution and like after all we're still at the same place where we were and I hated that I really did a lot of unanswered questions and again you know the fancy and her family of thirty years having to deal with this as well. It's just a heartbreak all around. Tommy thank you so much. Thanks for coming on man not only talking in dark side of the ring but impact wrestling as well truly appreciate it and we'll talk tomorrow and also when it comes to Jimmy stuck. I know you and I are going to be taping a special that. We're going to be airing at nine. Am next week. And we're GONNA give more about not only what we saw last night on dark shuttering but just a career of Jimmy superfly Snuka and some of historic batches as well So Tommy really appreciate that. I'm looking forward to doing that. Show with you and and I'll talk to you tomorrow. No problem and I just WANNA ask one quick little question if I may Do you have to go to break? yeah. I mean we have to see you know we have to go to break. But what's your. Ut's the question. You gotTA give the question. Well you know I do a lot of I feel positive for the show and there is a nice audio and visual clip of my good friend. Bully Ray making fun of me and how I speak and deliver some of my topics and I do feel. I bring a lot to the show and a lot to the table but this is the audio clip that is aired and you're just sitting there chuckling and laughing and gets me there. Sir. I wasn't. I wasn't chuckling or laughing again. You going it was it was it was chuckling and laughing with you. Tommy not okay and especially yesterday. Though my delivery I literally just wake up and then I come on the air and I understand it. I'm trying to get my thoughts the best way I possibly can but see. I don't go to bed until three or four o'clock in the morning and then three hours later I'm calling into the show. He goes to sleep like you know right away. His SUGAR LEVELS CUT DOWN. He Sleeps. He takes all day. He's very very heavy. That's what people have to do. And I love when there's GonNa be a dark side of bully because they're parts of his by that haven't seen the sun in so long that the darkest side ever okay wonderful show and you know guns you who's producing yesterday with the audio you know how they cut that up to make it look worse than it really was guns. Yeah Yeah it's all show by the way when we covered was the entire show of deputy backstage. But you know I'm just saying so. We go back to Dickie on that one too. Yeah I knew I could just gonNA. You're GonNa Start Pacing and sweating and walking all over the place de the exact topic that you and I covered but I just covered it very very slow so at least I give information. Money's worth your time to digest what you're saying all right. Tommy thank you so much I wanna go back to bed and I can't. I'm sorry. Have a good one indy-car fans this is brick by brick with Aj Dinger and jacker route. We can maybe provide you with a little distraction. Dismissing racing season will start and they'll have to be ready right when it starts and I think we're really going to see the drivers that are physically and mentally most strong through this time. We're GONNA come out and fire if it's a short schedule. The sort of this season's going to be even more critical than you knew episodes or Wednesdays at six eastern on Dan Patrick Radio Channel to eleven and anytime on demand with the Sirius. Xm APP usually when we come on the air we're talking about NWEA power and we're talking about Impact wrestling or getting you. Ready for a W N which by the way should be very very interesting tonight. Because they W is taped and annexed is going to be alive. So I'm wondering if annex t can keep that momentum of off of what was a ratings win for them last week though? The ratings don't seem to mean as much as they used to with everything that's going on but still it's something that we talk about here on busted open but with this dark side of the ring and with WWe backstage we have more to talk about on Wednesdays than ever before. I'm going to go out on a limb here. Pope it's a strong limb These dark side of the rings are probably the most intriguing and interesting things going on on my television set when it has to do with the world of professional wrestling every week. Get to the point bully and I think it's a great point. You just made to the point that I forgot about. Wwe backstage. And I didn't watch it until this morning when I was prepping for today show. I completely forgot about backstage. Because you know Tuesday nights now. It's like dark. Side of the ring is kind of necessity. Watch and and see 'em punk was on backstage last night. We'll get into some of his comments about Ron delayed or but yes dark. Side of the ring is done an excellent job of making. That must watch every Tuesday night. I'm going to put this out there and whether we talk about it or not. It'll be up to you. I like the premise of backstage. I like what backstage you're supposed to be. I'm not saying I don't like it now but I think the show is a little too safe. I really do. I mean obviously it's wwe. Wrap up show. I enjoy the personalities of their on there. But I'd like to see everybody on that show much like I talked about yesterday about. Take take becky scripts and rip them up just Becky Becky. Why can't we just have a bunch of topics to talk about on backstage? And just let Rene Christian Booker Punk Mark. Let just let them talk. Just let them give their honest opinions without being framed in a way that you know suits. Wwe'S AGENDA FOR THAT MOMENT. You know they're going to be you know they're going to be kind to the company but man if there was just a little bit of into the Yang I mean. Did you think when that show first came out because punk being involved in punk saying you know well you know. I'm going to be saying some things and I don't have a filter and kind of giving you the illusion that this is going to be a as much of a no-holds-barred talk show as we've never gotten before. Yeah and I think what you just said is correct in Seattle punks involvement. When you tell me punk is going to be a part of it and you know we all remember to pipebomb promo like all right. This is a guy that's going to speak his mind and especially since this is not a wwe product. It's a Fox product. They're like all right. You know this guy is going to go absolutely crazy. That really hasn't happened. Have we heard little bits and pieces of it? Sure but I think Mark Henry said it best early on where it's like when I see 'em punk in that setting on ww backstage. I don't WanNa see them in that setting on WWe backstage. I want to see him in the ring. I want to see him do what he does best. It's almost like you gave a punk. But it's it's in the wrong role if that makes any sense it's like when you see a movie wake one of your favorite actors and he's it's against the character and personality that you normally see him and that's punk every time I see Siham punk on my TV on. Wwe backstage bully. It just makes me want to see him in the ring doing what I know. He can still do because he's young and because he's healthy. I don't WanNa see him just towing a bit of the company line like we're seeing on Tuesday nights right now. I see your point of view but I I I kind of disagree. I don't want to see him in a ring. If I don't see him in a ring anymore I really could care less. That's his decision. Okay I get it. Do I have a problem with his decision? Maybe but at the decision so God bless him even if he doesn't believe in God and I don't know if he believes in God I don't think he does that he doesn't believe in God show. I've been up for ten minutes. I feel like dream is only because you've been on twelve so God. I don't have to see Pumpkin ring but I want tat punk. That I know is is there? I want that punk. Who CAN BE EDGY? I want that punk. Who can be unfiltered? I want that punk. That will give his complete. You know unreserved opinions about everything I WanNa hear somebody come out on that show and be just a little critical of what's going on. I think we are extremely respectfully critical of all wrestling companies on this show. I'd almost like to see a version that happened there. Everybody's just so happy and this was good and this was good and yeah maybe a little bit different but come on man come on guys not only great. What's one of a couple of different things bullied because you do have? Wwe employees on that show and you know and and and honestly maybe they're giving their honest opinion. I've heard page be a little bit critical. Obviously punk has been a little critical. It's just the fact with Pong Poli is you. Don't see them every week. What is it now once every four once every five weeks you see punk on that show so you know? I had no idea that SIA punk was even going to be on the show last night at if you believe some of the rumors that are out there. It seems like that when Fox wanted punk on. Vince had a huge problem with it and sell only agree to it. If he's on once a month I don't know if that's the God's honest truth that's what I heard. Yeah and again. That's that's rumors but that could be true the fact that you're only seeing them about once a month or once every five weeks When it comes to see 'em punked though I'm wondering bully it's because even though it's a Fox product it is a wwe show it has that wwe. Monica it's called WWe backstage. I'm wondering if you would get a different punk. Say he was on busted open like if he was on. Would he be the same as he is on backstage? Would you get more of that? Unfiltered Kampong that. We're expecting to see on Tuesday nights. I think you would get a lot more unfiltered version of him. Hey because we'd be talking about other things other than the. Wwe What do they talk about? Eighty W on backstage. They don't when did they talk about impact or Nwea or new Japan or any other company? When do they ask? When did they ask questions as in you know? Hey a punk. What's your opinion on this less Last Wednesday the main event of Awa was this and the main event of next. He was was this. You know which what you find yourself most interested in which you find more intriguing. Why can't we? Why can't we open up the spectrum of what we're talking about on that show because I think that's what the belief was going in that. This is going to be a little bit more honest assessment of what's going on but I can do a good job but it's it's a wwe show a metro. It is your home for all things. Combat Sports is Sirius. Xm Vacation Start Your Day with Hall of fame pro wrestling's on busted open. We spent these men and women that build the business and the Aachen Barranco keeps you up to date on all things boxing. Boxing is the fear of young expecting geary loop. Thomas has you covered for mixed martial art. Hogan is the most important influence in all of the broken down like nowhere else only on Sirius. Xm fight nascent one fifty six hours. You're pro wrestling team store. Doing I don't know yet. I don't know yet I actually wanted businessman. You are I listen. It takes a little while I want. The the nation post their pictures with their busted open David Greco t shirts posted so far. I haven't seen any bet but the store just oh sales or not so brisk this still listen. The store just opened it takes time for them to get the shirts. I'm sure once they get their shirts. They'll be posted in the pictures and I wanna see out what they feel. And if there's other designs they WANNA you know. I'm I'm here to please bully. Whatever they don't get don't get hot brother. Hey Man I'm not everyone's a hall of Famer you know what I'm saying. You know when you sign you signed the autographed you get put H. O. F. Next there's no H. O. F. Next to 'cause hops you know what I'm saying Hasselhoff now bully. We talked a lot about Ronda. Rousey with Stephanie has been a hot topic here on the show so wwe backstage made these comments. I WANNA get your take on it. I voice says he loved what Rhonda's doing he said he said Watching wrestling is fun for everyone. There's when there's you know there when you know. There is a little controversy. When you know there there is a little people of getting offended. Obviously with the F. Word fake people are getting offended he loves it like you say when pro wrestling blurs the lines where you don't know what is scripted. And what is real? And he actually thinks that this is ultimately going to lead to four women versus four horse women at some point maybe summer slam. And I know you've said in the past. You feel that that's something that could happen as well. So he thinks this is Rhonda Hook and everybody so I know a lot of what we heard. I would have to think at the end of the day. That punk is right and this has to be leading towards something because even if she was upset by the fans. I don't know with everything that was good about her run. That would be so quick to point the finger and blame the fans. If this wasn't a work listen you could blame the fans all day long whether you believe it or not because you can always say I was working going after the fans is easy taking it out on the fans so many wrestlers in history when they've done he'll turns have blamed the fans. You Know Mick Foley when he when he as Cactus Jack when he turned heel and easy w told them all you. People want to see me kill myself and then he started grabbing side headlock until the fans. Janet Boring there have been plenty of times where wrestlers have gone a different direction. And says you know why this happened. It was because of you the fans so rounded taking stuff out on the fans I have I have no problem with. I thought I thought it was totally fine. Because if she's working great she's riling up the fans and if she shooting well then that's our own opinion on things but don't think that you're gonNA walk into the world. The pro wrestling and not have a certain percentage of fans not liked you. It's just the way it is in this business. I mean it was the same way emanate. I hear a lot of people. Say She couldn't handle it. Mma and wrestling. It's about ten times worse. Yeah and I think you realize that too so for sure you're right but like I said if if for some reason she was being completely honest and this is not about what she said to the fans. It's the use of the fake word. Then you kick in every single woman in that locker room right in the tubes just horrible because at any given moment any of those veterans in that Locker Room could have made Rhonda. Look like crap. Yeah and that's where that fake word is so bad because like here's two people that come to mind when I hear the word fake and the level of disrespect that it would have to them hearing it I one Mattie you now denied heart wants to hear anybody say that what she does is fake yes or no. No and and and the tally is somebody that we spoke to on the show. That really was a bit of a mentor for for her for Rhonda when she started in a world of pro wrestling. Somebody that Rhonda really really leaned on and the Talia was somebody that came quickly to the defense of Ronda. Rousey as well exactly so here once again big if people if Rhonda is truly throwing the business under the bus and using the favorite that's like a slap in the face to natty Charlotte Charlotte Rhonda had a war. Charlotte made sure that Rondo looked great. I mean every single woman who got in the ring with our major around the looked great but Charlotte really went out of her way. I think more than anybody else. We also got Sasha and Rhonda Right. Yes we did. Yep Sasha also great match yes absolutely Sasha and Charlotte really got Rhonda over what was fake about that now. And that's the thing bully like. I'm quick to defend Ronda Rousey and I think you and I it's almost like second nature for us. 'cause all the hate calls that we were getting for that year when it came to Ronda Rousey but if this is not a work if if she is really done with professional wrestling and she's finished with it and she's moving onto the next stage of her life then I'm going to have a problem with Rhonda Rousey because for her to have the year that she had and to lead up to an historic wrestlemainia matched first ever women's main event at Wrestlemania. And I leave this way used that f word fake. Then I think everybody's going to everybody is GonNa Perceive Ronda Rousey in a completely different way because I really think if you go out that way and you burn every bridge and you break every window. Then we're not GONNA REMEMBER THAT YEAR. We're going to remember those comments. So if she never comes back then that's really gonNA taint her legacy in the wwe. We're wondering if there's a if it's a work or not. I think you're wondering a lot more than I am. This is why posted to twitter. What I did yesterday and I'll just remind everybody of Rhonda's tweet before she went to bed two nights ago. She said good night rowdy ones and Gebran marks without a life. That don't know it's a work when you work a work and work yourself into a shoot marks. That exact tweet word for word was posted by Hulk Hogan in two thousand and eleven. So tell me. Is she working or is she shooting? She's working she's basically telling everybody. Don't get your panties at a bunch relax. Do you got his pants in the bunch dogs chewing on toys that he hasn't chewed on ten years. But please go on bullying. I'm sorry you interrupted me for that. It's making a lot of squeaky noises. So I want you to think you noises in the middle of the White didn't want you to think was going on underneath this laptop but go on. I didn't mean interrupt. You know I just listen. I think at the end of the day This makes for a great survivor series. Main Event I agree with you and I think it's a work and you know if you're you know we talked about. WanNa see a lot. More punks turn off. I think Ronda is definitely stirring the pop. Thanks for listening catches Monday through Saturday. I'm busted open from nine. Am To noon eastern on Sirius Xm by Nation Channel. One fifty six busted open odd cast.

wrestling Wwe Tommy Dreamer Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy superfly SNUKA Sirius Mike Jackson twitter Hulk Hogan Xm Ronda Rousey Nancy Charlotte Rhonda Wwe Hall of Famer WWF SIRIUSXM Jimmy Superfly Mike partner Ron
Dory Funk Jr. Joins the Show

Busted Open

00:00 sec | 11 months ago

Dory Funk Jr. Joins the Show

"If you don't know Sirius. XM THAN LISTEN UP Commercial Free Music Plus sports comedy talk and news. They have it all and right now you can get your first three months of Sirius. Xm outside the car for just US one dollar go to SIRIUSXM DOT com slash busted to see offer details and to subscribe offer available to new series Xm streaming subscribers Sirius Xm no car required. This is the busted open podcast. You can listen to the full show Monday through Saturday from nine. Am To noon eastern on Sirius Sexism Channel One fifty six. Welcome to the bus loop and podcast. This is Dave McGregor on today's edition. Russian wwe hall of Famer Mark. Henry and I talk about the Jon. Moxley Chris Jericho Sake Ben from E W dynamite from this past Wednesday and how I believe bar this is going to take Jon Moxley to another love. Not only is it going to take John to another level is going to endear career him with the fans even more because of what we saw. Also we get into from this past Wednesday especially at the beginning of the show with your annex t women's champion real rippling real ripley then have her most impressive moment in pro wrestling but being that she has a lot of potential she's got plenty of room to make up for and also we talked to alleged mark. We talked to Dory funk junior. They're on today's episode of busted. Open door was very insightful. Toe some great stories. I am looking forward to the fans ends of busted open hearing all of these stories and everything that we've talked all that right now on the bus it open podcasts. Obviously moxley amazing on the microphone on Jericho phenomenal on the microphone If you want a bit above we go to a bit of the bubbly dot COM A little bit of the bubbly but You know what I really heard in that and obviously Jr and Tony Shivani did a phenomenal job as well. Listen to the crowd. The first half of what Alex Alex played. You heard a gas from the crowd because they never thought that Jon Moxley would say yes and then when he said I'm just kidding you're heard defense arrived. That's pro wrestling at its best. Obviously we're GONNA talk the Dory funk junior about in ring psychology but man nobody does is it better than Moxley and Jericho on the Mike. You know what Dave like. I was sitting there as a fan. Like oh man as he joining them like come on. This is the last thing that I wanted in pro wrestling was the have Jon. moxley join the inner circle shit and re I mean got me Hook Line. China's thinker I. I'm sitting there. And Jacob is laughing at me. He's like wow he's like. Why are you so upset now? Because he he shouldn't shouldn't join them. And when when I when I was let off the hook and he I I mostly got behind the fact that He turned on them and left them laying in a pile and ran through the crowd and the crowd got the touch him on his way out and everybody one there was no losers in that segment. Even Jericho in coca knock stupid. Sammy got knocked stupid. He left Jack Standing there with his putting his hand. uh-huh looking around like what in the hell just happened and John Motley Jr running through the crowd high five in in An Giang never high fives. Anybody is like he's he. He he was the terms of endearment unbelievable segment as a as a wrestling fan. You one if you watched if you were there then you really one because because I know that that crowd had to have an electric field when they've been sitting on their hands half the night so they got they got with the money they got their money's worth mark when I watched that segment. And we all know you know ambrose from the WWe Louis and Dean Ambrose and the WWe was crazy. He was not was he was unpredictable. And so far since Jon Moxley has been with. Aws W he's been the same except for what we saw on Wednesday night Wednesday night for the first time for me in Jon Moxley career. He became one of the fans like that that they what they were able to do in that segment is really make a connection with him and the fans. 'cause you're right you know for the first time you're seeing Jon Moxley slapping and giving high fives to the fans letting the fans touch him He he went from being that Kooky crazy like unpredictable lunatic fringe guy to being the people's lunatic fringe guy. Think about that. That's how you become a top baby face in the company and it takes two to tango. You need a Jericho bring that out of them and then you need the hatred for Jericho and then you need the story. Mark where you're right and you as is a fan and this is why I know that segment clicked in worked because we talked to bully about it yesterday. Mark and bully said had a guy that says you know somebody us you know still does it still does it is a high level is a hall of Famer like you. And he was duped souped he was swerved. And then I'm talking to you mark today and you're talking about how you're yelling at the TV and you're jumping up and down in your seat and you're the the thirty year veteran. You're the hall of Famer like to be able to do that to you. Gosh that's that's the magic of what that segment was on. Wednesday night is why were fans. Oh my God We got the best business in the world to be fans of Dave there. We were sitting here. We're talking about. We're talking about pro wrestling on say exam. Look at that that is self is victory every day that we're on the air and the fans that got the watch this now. Did they win. But this is something that's GonNa live. There's still we're still talking about it days. He's later and some of it will live in people's lives forever. Because they were there they had experienced they had moments with the maybe maybe they took the kid to a pro resin event for the first time. Maybe a father son and grandson got the go-to wrestling three generations. Got To go. Maybe daughter for the first time everybody was together. That's what that's what really makes special is who you share with the fact that I get the call you dave not only on the air but we talked about about wrestling off. The air do is the best thing in the world and be able to be on the inside of it. It helps but I'll never get jaded enough that we're wrestling becomes a job to me. They're wrestling becomes uh-huh something that is a means to make a living even though it does I still love and have the passion four and I think our fans due to so at the end of the day best why this is so important and I'm just excited man. I I think that this is the best time in in in in four as I can remember for pro wrestling. We we had the new Japan. Show wrestle kingdom followed by Monday night and then on Wednesday had two shows to watch and it in watching thirteen hours wrestling a week is is not work to me. This is men. I'm living life Raleigh and I think our fans to One thing that you said and I think that is really the good gauge of how good that segment was. I mentioned the crowd reaction. You're right for the most part watching it at home. It did seem like that crowd was Kinda dead like they were on their hands and to really get them to be inspired. That tells tells you how good that Jericho Moxley were. Yeah they were able to turn that crowd around give them something a little bit extra I think that maybe they were just waiting and saving it up for the people that they knew the most even though I think that that's a bad philosophy because you building and I think that when you build in a program you can't just always top lace it with all the stars right up front you gotta you know sprinkle through the show and I think that they did a good job of it. I just think the crowd was you know they were just waiting. Jericho waiting on mocks waiting on the finish. You know we talked about mcsween Jericho a lot here. And I think I think Moxley is it kind of this is going to be his year. This is going to be really big for him but I think we need to mention from that segment specifically on Wednesday night and mark. You mentioned for a bit earlier. Jake Hager his reaction when he finally got back into the ring where he's holding Jericho in his arms. Like what happened to my bowl. You know. Just like with the tears coming down his face so eighty w takes that video clip of of Jericho being held the arms passed out by Hager and posted it on their twitter account with this music in the background just died in my arm and it goes on a loop. I'll re tweeted from the episode open on twitter. And then you gotta go watch because you'RE GONNA laugh your ass off and you're GonNa Watch watch it like ten times in a row Alex and here's the thing really quick because Alex this has been saying this as we're closing out two thousand nineteen that he thought Jon Moxley was really going to have career year in two thousand twenty well. There's no better way to start off the year. The Nets segment that we got Wednesday night. Like to me. That's really going to transcend Jon. Moxley and I said it earlier in the week. And it's True Jon. Moxley was not happy in the WWE. He chose to leave he. He did things the right way. You can't blame them. He went out. Wait until wait until his contract was over any any left. But he's living the dream. You know to being a part of wrestle wrestle kingdom fourteen at the Tokyo Dome you know to to have that match yet with Kenny Omega On the pay per view for Awa and then to have the segment like he had With Chris Jericho I mean he's really Having one hell of an end two thousand in one thousand nine hundred our start of two thousand thousand twenty Michael. You're hearing catch busted open. Live Monday through Saturday from nine. Am To noon eastern on Sirius XM FIGHT Nation Channel. One fifty six six or on demand with this series. Xm App Multiple Hall of Famer. And somebody that I know is very very special in your or heart mark and that is the legendary Dory funk junior Dorrie how are you this morning I'm looking forward to this it's A real opportunity in a privilege to be on your show and I've done lots of stories to tell about professional wrestling national wrestling alliance and Much much to do on a history of where it came somehow got here and also Are there is a match that took place a training match. What's myself in Marquette rate and Mark Henry has he got the three count on me and I'm looking Looking for a return match against Mark Henry Hopefully Billion Amaral Texas and if we're able to To get the match set up it would be for the benefit instead of the humane society. Oh Wow four. I'm all for it. How come all for one hundred percent? I'm in the match would take place place in Ocala Florida. How does that sound you? Tell me when answer I got my. I got my boobs that they've they're in a box. Somehow the goal break the box out but I I got I still. I still got some gear. That sounds terrific and on the match I just want you to know you're the only person ever that was training with me. That beat me. So that's why I'm looking for the return. Well I'm ready. I'm ready I'll I'll I'll never turned down a fight. I never turned I got you. Just don't let Mardi you'd be involve khaki that's what I'm not real weapons coming out. Real real real banned her from them right. This is great having you on. And there's I mean my God we we could have gone for the entire three hours of this show because there's so much to get into with with your career your story career the awards in the titles that you've held all the territories that you wrestled in like you said you're one of the faces of the Nwea and then mark and what he's been preaching this. This morning is about who you trained in who you mentor. D- When you look back at what you've been able to do. What did you appreciate more your wrestling career your or your life? As as a wrestling trainer and teacher I have to say my wrestling career. But it's a very close balance because the PR- The having the privilege to worked with some of the great wrestlers that I have ask that have done so well Not only Marquette Ray but Lita mickie James Kurt angle edge tests Christian soon and sun and a host of others including my brother Terry funk I trained him to and so many of the Japanese wrestlers too especially Jumbled Rueda he's Aw Fabulous Wrestler. He's one of the first train. We always try to start at the beginning and go back in history and men I. I'm looking at who trained you. And when you when you started and of course your your father other Dory funk senior But Pedro Morales was one of your trainers Pedro Morales was Actually in the amarillo territory and his name there was Johnny Coamo and I trained in with him and he wasn't one of my trainers he and I try and together under the too much of my father and another wrestler. That really did my career. A lot of good Ricky Romero and he was Very famous in amarillo territory Tori. You're not so much a worldwide also Mike. DB Acid Iron Mike TV Honesty was another one of I tried to. Wow and I had the opportunity in my first year of wrestling to face To Great Luther. House those Ganja Harley race and you never really learn unless you're with the very top people in the business and I had the opportunity to my father funk senior to work with the very best interesting to see my first year in the year coot you you and you said that you train you train your brother other and Dave and I've watched so much wrestling and I thought you know to match that That really stuck you know really would mean was you and Jack Brisco but he was talking about the match that you interior. Interior had In a tournament all Japan match that one about fifty four minutes which was a just a classic classic. That's true and There was there was A tournament is the match took place because we both came up opposite the sides of the tournament and had had faced each other and wrestling Jerry. Since we both have the same trainer was almost like Leslie Myself It was quite an experience Hansen. Something I was honestly very nervous. Going into and Fortunately we really had a great match for wrestling fans in Japan. The did you ever have a mass that went under thirty minutes pill. Every match I watched was forty five minutes hours six minutes. This is a fun entire the fun time about being a professional wrestler is in the ring performing that's that's what we do all the hard work for her and To hurry that or to get into Russia over that is in my way of doing things because feeling the support of the fans is just a wonderful feeling. And that's Whether they're cheering for me or cheering for my opponent. As long as they're involved in the match I'm thrilled. I always enjoyed the ten minutes after her match I felt like my my thought processes moved faster Do you do you remember how you felt after those matches and the creativity that that came from him many times Disappointed the point is that it's over. I'm not stealing but I feel really great after after after a good match and I know and understand. I've done to work for a promotion. I've accomplished The works for wrestling fans and for my opponent in a way. It's a real feeling of satisfaction. You know you mentioned the you mentioned to name Luther says and obviously I know there's a a lot of historians a lot of wrestlers that we speak to that regard Liu says as the greatest first of all time. I'm forty eight years old. The only time I was able to watch luther has in person was a legends battle. Royal back in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven which he won at the age of seventy one Where do you put Liu says when it comes to the greatest of all time? He's certainly one of the greatest of all time and there are others. Sit we're great world champions Including people like Vern Ganja Harley race from Japan Milky Bravo Jumble Trudeau there was some there are some really great wrestlers. that have been champions and conducted themselves in a championship. Way I but I think Lewis One of the very best. He couldn't have been N W world world champion for as long as he was Without doing good business for all the promoters and the The criteria Harry is. How many people can you put in the seats To wants to watch the matches I was a big Fan And Florida wrestling of Mr Wrestling. And you you wrestle Mr Wrestling like what was the thing about him that When you wrestled him that you felt like was the strongest point in his wrestling? And and what would you do To counterbalance what he was as a wrestle you know I have so much respect for him because he took our business and he didn't make it make it a fight. He might have a wrestling match. Japan wrestling fans have to have The full scope of our abilities. There's got to have the good guy bad guy but they've also got to have the wrestling Base and support of the name. The sport is professional wrestling professional fighting. You know sometimes it goes into professional fighting instead of your professional wrestling wrestling but Chinese Martino yourself in the training match would you would you and they. It was a combination of wrestling and for that matter of fighting on the floor. Yeah I know you took a wicked hit with a chair and still came in performed and won the match it was classic. I enjoyed it as one of the things that stand out in my memory. Most I I remember you telling me me In Training Day wanted today's where I had a match with Guy Wrestler so Test and Tasks yes he was terrific and I didn't sell something and you pointed out to me. Hey if you slap me on my shoulder real hard and I was like Oh man and you said that's the way you sell that and then I I never forgot that and I appreciate the lessons by the way just so you know. I'm more than honored to just know you like like. I know you didn't have the compensations but the learning process that the way that you teach is is very hands on and and I wanted to let everybody know how many people because a lot of people don't really know about the funk Indo Joe and in and and all the people that came from it and for those that like Albert Chris Sabin Christian crash rash highly. David flair Edge Gail Kim Jeans Nikki. Jeff Hardy Matt Hardy. Kurt Angle Leader Leader Mickie James Paul London Rhino Ricky Myself. Sean stays the act. Steve Carino tests vow Venus William Regal and Liberals on own of all of these guys. And I'm GonNa tell you something else at the the WWe performance center the guys that are employed there. Steve Regal Steve Carino Scotty to to hide Albert. They run the performance center. The people that that you train and So the guys that that come from your tree they have a penance for teaching the way that you talk and you just one lead genome behalf those guys because I think that is safe to speak for them Thank you because you you made us more steady you taught us to Appreciate the business and to give back to the business and to teach it the right way and what what are you owed at two is. Was it your father that that instilled that in your wasn't that in your journey you wanted the just do right by wrestling. It's It was in still to me but my father dory funk senior and It's a thing that professional wrestling is not taking business. It's a giving business. Is there and we have to Appreciate and give our to our opponents. We've gotta take care of them Every time we walk out of the rain challenge if it were return match. Would we have a bigger under house and that that's the challenge Each time is we're going to ring in Perform in these people so that you name a whole list. The entire list are on that list because they are very very talented. People yourself included and I don't ever Look past that Yes the training was good. they learn the right things. Learn the right way but they themselves have succeeded in flow to the top. Because they're the best performers in the business and I helped him along the way lake but the credit really goes to each and every one and two. Don't forget them. You know you mentioned Chin about that this business is in is about giving and not taking and and I and I and I can hear marks reaction under his breath. Can you explain that adds to the audience because I think a lot of wrestling fans have the perception that the business is completely the opposite can can you explain that To to our audience chance first of all the audience Is You need to give the audience. It's giving a a great performance every time out You need to go in the rain and make your opponent look okay. Good every time out. it's it's Giving business if you want doubtful. I know very many if not any who can walk in rang Next themselves look good without the help of the person working with and you know anybody ready can kill a match and make it a debt but The idea is to have a great match every time out and these people that you've named they do. is they do exactly that every time out. Great match the skewing. We were talking about it before you came on About making your ponant look good and now only making your opponent look good but building your opponent because without building your opponent you're beating no one That was one of the things that you that was. Probably the I think the first name other than take care of person that you don't hurt somebody but right behind that was hey I want to have a five minute match and I want you to spin that whole five minutes A building the guy that you're in ring with Ryan like that was one of the things that that helped my game. The most and it was those sessions at the funk dough because I learn how but I hadn't learned win and wear air and picture difficult to learn to and that's that's the seminars that I teach each now and is because of what I learned from the DOJ. Oh and that's what I think. Why Albert is such a good teacher and why Steve Carino is such a good teacher as got to Heidi and and Steve Regal is is a genius? Just just. He's just smart Well rounded wrestling But Mike people come away from you what is it. What about you and your teachers? Now that makes people exorb- it so quickly quickly Sometimes trying to sometimes it takes a lot of time and sometimes they go quick What my semi absorb resolve it so quickly? I I think the idea that this is not a taking business you can't you can't you. Can't get along that way. Somebody will block you. Somebody will be tougher Somebody will stop you. It's a giving business and it has to be that way and once you got that Then learning the technical oh bounce falls Kohl's That's another part of it and that has to be good. It has to be well done. It has to be learned. And that may be where Some wrestlers take more time to learn the business soon others Just learning the technical moves but they have to be They have to be excellent right along with The story about what you give the technical wrestling has to be excellent to Dorey sorry We got a call a phone call just before you came on with us from our good friend. Scott L. A. Who wanted us to ask you this question? And it's you know we lost somebody that you were familiar within the ring. I know yet a few him in Detroit. And that's Perot who passed away yesterday morning. Any any thoughts are recollections of one of the greats that we lost yesterday. I did not know that I'm very sad to hear that CERTAPRO was A big card for us in Amarillo Texas for that matter and Very hurt to hear here that he's passed away he did a he was a great performer. Just style is completely different And he did a fabulous job. I'm very sorry to hear. He's passed away and his family My condolences yeah and we you know we just lost him yesterday morning at the age of eighty nine Dory funk you know obviously having you on and you've been mentioned a lot lately with the resurgence of the NWEA Nikau this who's the NWEA champion right now. Looks at you as a mentor. what do you think about The re formation of the NWEA the resurgence of the NWEA. And what are your thoughts on. Nick Alvis I think nick eldest is terrific job I think he's a great champion and he's learned the part about this and that always taking business it's a given business He does a terrific job and he's he's a great champion. I wish all the best in the world he's also You're a good friend who had a chance to work with him. Some you know one I got the spin Three days with the are two days from SAR with the forgotten sons. If you will. And we got him mm-hmm well the tag team from annexed Tae the forgotten sons. Ta Okay and they I know they I remember seeing them out of fucking doj a few years ago When they were first you know starting to train rain and now you know they're they're doing such a good job and I look at you still have representation Would Nikau wow does. And if a gotten sons on television today and so many more people that you've trained Is there anybody in the pipeline line. Now that you're working with that we should look forward to. Oh boy I get it Wrestler down here in our training camp. Yep shake logan and he does a terrific job. He's a great athlete. A mix of that gymnast in a great wrestler and that's the combination that you need that he is is really put his What we call chiming in the wrestling business? Timing has now become great. He's in good condition his very important in professional wrestling. He does great promos and and not only that he comes from Texas. A little heads Ed's was was was he an amateur at that he started as an amateur wrestler. Jake Logan or is he just strictly Training now to be a pro wrestler. He's strictly trained to be a pro wrestler and his father's act. Actually the the way the promoter in Amarillo Texas right now top of Texas wrestling and Jacobs their top star. or He's our top star and he does a fabulous job to anybody. Works well first of all. Thank you so much for the time today. Hi It's been an absolute pleasure having you on You know we really promoted this especially earlier in the show. This is the first time you've ever been on the show so it's definitely been a treat for me and when you look at Mark Henry now all the accolades and awards that mark is receiving. I'm sure you're very very proud of the work that you've done inside the ring and outside the ring I'm very proud and Also don't forget Martinez got that edge on me. He's got have two one victory in a training match. Nobody else in training his beat me and I'm challenging And I'm exempting here. Okay here in Ocala Florida. It'll be a charity show for the Humane Society There's less to have you down. Yeah well I'll tell you what you have Mardi call me and give me the whereabouts and wins and I I'll show up. Okay terrific perfect and one other thing. I a lot of my career took this has taken place not only here in the United States but also also in Japan and I wanNA thank everybody associated with the Japanese pro wrestling companies for all the things done to Help my career also WANNA mention. I'LL BE WRESTLE CON April third and fourth. I'll be a wwe hall of fame. Hateful second and Greg. Greece is my sponsor at Wrestle Khan John and also I'll be wrestlemainia and looking forward to that and also looking forward to in College Sarah Alley Club then Las Vegas Nevada and I'll be presenting Their top award to Thunderbolt Patterson. That's awesome okay I will. I will get busy busy. Who knows mark? Maybe we can get together with Dory in Tampa camp. Maybe we can get him to stop by the bus. It Open Party. That would be awesome. That'd be awesome. Yes all right amazing thing all right. I'm not gonNA love the Mardi I really give your love to Marty And and She she loves you too and she said right okay. I know how important the fact that she is in has has been in your life and That's very very much for somebody that was not in the ring. the you know the The world of pro resident owes a debt. That will never be paid. Thank you so very much. Appreciate that and All Ah everything that you've accomplished mark has been A credit to professional wrestling and anything that's credit professional wrestling is credit to me. Chuck thank you very much. Wow thank you so much mark thank you say wow Tori funk junior thank you so much sir okay thank you guys enjoyed it if you don't know Sirius. Xm Then listen up commercial free music plus sports comedy talk and news if they had it all a lot of people think you need a car to enjoy Sirius Xm but you don't. You can listen outside the car right now you can get your first three months of Sirius. Xm outside the car for just one dollar just go oh to Sirius. Xm Dot com slash busted to offer details and to subscribe. You can listen on your phone at home and online that Sirius. Xm Dot com slash busted offer available to new Mu Siriusxm streaming subscribers siriusxm. No car required. Let's get in to real ripley bully yesterday on yesterday's show coming out of annexed eighty and eighty w dynamite like we always do on Thursdays breaking it all down and he mentioned Rio Ripley and and said that she showed a little bit. Whatever week this not GonNa know not gonNA highlight it as much but you know? She showed a little weekdays on the microphone. showed a little bit of the deer in the headlights What did you think think of Rio? Ripley's performance on Wednesday night on annex t mark. I thought that her performance was not up to the standard of where she has been wrestling But in her defense that she was just put in a situation that was not conducive to her really succeeding because In years past when I remember when I first started getting on the Mike Right There was always somebody in between me and the principal. I live say men Batista back in the day teddy long was in the middle. He had the Mike Batiste than I didn't have mics. So but Teesta were grabbed the microphone from from Teddy Long and he would say his piece and then he would push the Mike in the teddy long's chess and then I with grabbed the mic. And say Oh yeah well. Let's take some of this and then I would slam the Mike in the chest and then after about the second or third time how did it go stops. Listen you can just hand the microphone to me. You don't have to hit me with it and and there's a mediator that's what was needed if Bianca came first cholerae came first. That person who live a cane. I should have been between Ria and Tony Star And then you bring and somebody else and then you bring you bring in eight people twelve people but layer it where there's one microphone and one person. I has the beat of mediator and that person usually should beat a smart ass so when the time comes for everything breakdown. The person with the microphone microphone is the first one hit because they deserved it. Because they've been browbeaten everybody. And then you can have all of the People Ping Ping Pong in that one person in the middle bump them out and then they all get into it and then you so is is how you put things together and and that's where I think that you know I think The the process of putting people in a good position Asian and a position for success is warranted. And so it's not all the town of fall. Listen she is twenty three yes. She's Super Young. Listen she got about three or four more years before she is like in my opinion as young kids say today one hundred in about two or three years. She'll be the woman in pro wrestling right. Now it's just learning bumps and you know that's why in a lot of ways I still feel. There's a little bit of developmental when it comes to annex t because Rio Ripley's star. I'm not saying it's amazing thing on a w they're doing the same thing on raw. They're doing the same thing own on smackdown. I see people. Taking learning lumps own own a job training. So it's not I don't I don't look at an x t is being a development. I'M GONNA have to disagree with you because one. They can paid a hell of a lot of money to be developmental. That's this not developmental. You know you go to a training school. WHO Like Ohio Valley without snow and you say hey man I wanna learn how to wrestle? That's that's the developmental process. Same thing with you know. He's slater's in and in Knoxville on the same thing I mean Atlanta and the same thing with Tom. PRICHARD and Knoxville like those are really good developmental schools to teach you how to wrestle from the ground floor but these guys on TV. Getting these big checks every week on Monday Tuesday when that check comes. That's not developmental. You're you're in the fire. Are you need to produce. And if you can't get the job done don't do it. Say No I ready for that or have the production and the producing cover. You like take care of you in the ring. It's the same thing is being guarded forever. I saw I saw maybe developmental wrong word to use. But let me throw this at you mark and get your your take on this Ria Ripley. We we know is a star. She's amazing you say she's super young so there and you just said she's not a hundred yet hundred Hun Hun a hundred hundred hundred hundred hundred yet oh sees she. She's not there yet okay would would the wwe make real Ripley Blay. A women's champion on raw smackdown. If they didn't feel she was there yet. Yes there are people that Serbian ready. That have been champing If you ass Randy Orton right now do he think that he should have even the youngest champion of all time. He'll probably say no. I was nowhere near ready but it happened. And look what we got now. Ria Ripley is Randy Orton. All right I like that comparison. That's great that's what she is. That's unbelievably talent. Great eight looking the potential out the Yang and I can see her holding holding the title as many times. Charlotte has the only person that I can get in pro wrestling today that I can say wow at ended a career there have eleven thirteen titles. Sure that's high praise coming from you mark especially when you compare Charlotte. Yeah all right so you. We know how I feel about Charlotte. I know we both feel that way when we ran ran McKinley. And I did this fantasy draft. Who Wow that's what we've been the now joke edges? So as as well as he talks about you. I'm Mark I'm joking Shane Sir. So anyway as I was saying about Ryan mckinnell. Oh we had a fantasy draft and my first pick Charlotte flair there Only brock over seth he said are pick brock lessening. I play Charlotte Flare you starting with Charlotte flare as yes. My Women's division is about to be fired because at the time and you said this to an Alex was like Yep Yep got to agree. The whim at the beginning of the year last year when football season started women's wrestling was better than the men's wrestling. Yup You remember the WWe shore and if it was in a wwe didn't that was all over the world. I would say Japan's second at that point as far as women's divisions go And why would I not start with Charlotte flair. She was the best because Begi. Peggy was the champion but I still thought that Charlotte was the one I would start my franchise with couldn't couldn't so I feel the same way about Ria Ripley's potential. She's not there yet. But the potential is there You brought up something to when you talked about a plan for success I I bring this up all time. You're a cowboys fan. One thing I loved about vowed Jimmy Johnson former Dallas cowboys head. Coach is that he always put his players in the best position to make place. If you knew rea- Ripley wasn't in that position to be money on the Mike. Maybe they should not have planned that segment on Wednesday night. You agree with that I do and I I. I had the same criticism for M J F last week too much time on the Mike. He's great on the Mike but eventually you're going to start saying the same thing over and over like don't give somebody fifteen minutes of Mike time if they're good at eight twelve re Ripley if you're gonNA Open Promo segment with her. I mean the the the point that I made to you was I would have had her come out there and say stop. The music stopped amuse in. Jump right into it start talking. Say what you mean and then have somebody interrupt and come in and now you say listen. You're standing too close to me. You need the backup. Put an edge on maker aggressive wrestled in the beginning. So now when you get three people and for people you have set the tempo and you can let everybody talk around one. Mike not four where people are stumbling over each other and talking on top of AH in. Nobody's getting anything out of it. So you have to protect you. You have to protect your town. Thanks for listening catches Monday through Saturday. Busted open from nine A._M.. To noon Eastern Unserious X._M.. By Nation Channel One fifty six the busted open podcast.

wrestling wrestling Jericho Moxley Chris Jericho Japan Jon Moxley Sirius WWE rea- Ripley Mark Henry Dave McGregor Mike Batiste Alex Alex XM amarillo Dory funk Texas Siriusxm Mr Wrestling
Top 10 Wrestling Feuds

Busted Open

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

Top 10 Wrestling Feuds

"This is a special edition of busted open on Sirius Xm nation. Live from the Sirius Xm studios in New York City this. Busted Open Your only destination for daily pro wrestling talk in the entire world. From the independent seat to the main event of Wrestlemainia covers, throw wrestling like busted open. What? Topics breaking news interviews with some of the biggest names in the game. Off. Show designed for the fan by the fan old school your assistant. Check meets new school. tried. Busted Open hosted free sixty. Lives now. This is busted opens top ten feuds special hearing your hosts deeply cracker in DC W legend Tommy Dreamer. Welcome to bust it open top, and you'd of all time. That's right. We're looking at what we feel on busted. Open his the top ten greatest pro wrestling feuds of all time, and who better to be my partner. In this great sixty minutes of beautiful audio, talking about the history, a pro wrestling, then my brother from another mother, the Innovator violence-torn landlord of the House of Hardcore, himself Tommy Dreamer Tommy. How are you man? I'm doing great, but and man when you talk about controversy this. Where we put it out there on social media, it's going to go insane. 'cause. Everyone's going to have their own. Opinions about feuds, but you know you and I had to sit there normally due to. lists, but we decided to go another out. Maybe you can explain why, but I think this is going to be argued. Sue out the generations. Yeah, space freaking you out right now. Well I think there's a couple reasons that mother. Morrison Mother Marissa was the commissioner when it came to putting this list together first of all, I think everyone who listens to us together. They realized that a lot of our list are pretty identical. Now there were a few placements in a couple of feuds that we didn't agree on, but for the most part I think. This is pretty spot on and I. Think it's going to be a top ten lists that not only you and I agree with but that the nation agrees with and if they don't, that's fine. Fine you just go to at busted open radio and tell us what you feel should be number one number two one through ten, so the nation is always a big part of this as well, but let's dive right into it, and when we look at the top ten at number ten. Tommy is stone, cold versus Vince McMahon man. This was the feud that really to me started the entire lost watch television Austin three sixteen was everybody was wearing t-shirts at this time period was so cool to be arrested fan kind of like how it is now, but. It was. Good versus evil, and that's all these feuds are about it's about a main topic or main issue, and it is what every single person wants to do, and that is go at it with their boss, and they built this up, and they built this up. The Vince McMahon character came with the whole Bret Hart and Bret Screwed Bret. He became probably one of the greatest heels and characters, and then on the cusp of that came the greatest baby face and stone. Stone Cold Steve Austin this was must see television and every week you knew there was gonna be some interaction and every time it did just it was a ratings darling and it was just think of how many crappy stunners Vincent man would take, but we would still love each and every week, and I think this is probably the most controversial pick in our top ten. Because I'm sure, there's a lot of fans, Tommy that would probably put stone cold and Vince McMahon. McMahon at number one on their top ten feuds. I did a lot of research when looking into making my list, and you know a lot of websites because you know. A lot of younger fans may be fans that have only been watching for the last twenty to twenty five years. This would be the few that would top the list, but you know you and I go way back when it comes to pro wrestling in the history of pro wrestling and especially when? When! We're doing a lot of our territory specials I think there's a lot of foods that may be all are not the tip of a lot of fans tongs, but I think this is going to be the most controversial pick, but I do you agreed at Tommy that a lot of fans would probably have this higher on their list, absolutely especially for the business that it did but I mean you and I are going over this back and forth where commissioner? Jack Tony. He wasn't available so commissioner mother Marissa has to step in and I. Mean you think of the feuds that we did not mention Hogan Entree Baquedano versus vern? Ganja there's the list could go on and on. We could talk about this forever. I agree where people were saying. Hey, the business that they did but to me. It's at sometimes there was comedy involved, and when you're in a feud, you really don't WanNa, have comedy, and as well as it will last forever. But like to me, stone became like the top top baby face and Vince McMahon was at that time top, he'll, but stone cold moved on Vince went in a different direction. Like I said the comedy and you know they're such great moments, but like the feuds that we're talking about his personal issues that they had like blood spilled. You know beating up a family member beating up you know laying in a pool of blood. There's just so many different issues and to me. The comedy aspect is why I had it at such a higher number. You know, because of the whole you know. Know what Donald said you know, and and all the times it it's. It's funny, but it's not funny because you're talking to someone that took a feud for three years to beat a person. I mean how how many stunners adventure men take each and every week and yeah, we still reacted. Yeah, we still love it. We waited for it for two hours to stabilize going to happen way to it on pay per view. But we also knew Vince McMahon was not a great wrestler as opposed to Stone Cold, Steve Austin though he did a step in the ring, many many times and get his ass beat but I think to me, that's why it's. It's number ten from me I. Don't know why it's number ten you, but going over this. We have seriously. We left out. A blood feud of Carlos Cologne and Bruiser Brody. We left out. You know the old dusty Rhodes in the assassins, dusty Rhodes and the andersons for so many different reasons, so this is a hard list, but it definitely for some people are going to be higher up there, but for us. We left it at number ten, and you mentioned about. Vince McMahon not being quote unquote pro wrestler when you look at the number nine slot on our top ten greatest feuds that would be two wrestlers, coming from two different ends of the spectrum, and really what you said before caused our number ten, so that's why it's higher on our list, and that's Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart. Man When you WanNa talk about the to work horses of world wrestling entertainment. You know w. w was always the big remains territory, but when business was down, they put that rocket on or that saddle on the wrestlers, and it was the smaller wrestlers and Shawn, Michaels and Bret Hart to hall of Famers for a reason and I also want to say they were two guys from a different schooling or a different era. That had you know. On Camera Heat, but why? This was so intriguing was the real personal heat and the real personal fistfights that went on behind the scenes, and when you are in a feud, you're so inundated with hatred between somebody you know we say life. imitates art, and these two guys are going to go out of these two of the greatest technical wrestlers to the greatest wrestlers of all time. They had a personal issue and they each and every week. We cannot wait to see them. beat the crap that. And I think the big word, and why it's on our list and our top ten greatest feuds of all time is the fact that there was realism. And when he talk about realism, you have to go to our number eight. In our top ten greatest feuds of all time and add is coming out of Puerto, Rico Carlos Cologne and Abdul the butcher. Man When you talk about blood and you talk about a personal feud and we talk about business. This is a small island, and I have had plenty of conversations but Carlos about his feud and they Puerto Rico believed for years that these guys were mortal enemies Carlito his son believed that his father was getting killed out there. 'cause Carlos wasn't smarten up. His own son and Carlito would watch his father bleed and he'd want to kick Abdul the butcher, so you can imagine what the fans would wanNA. Do Bees guys spilled stadiums? All the time on this small island, with thousand thousand people just wanted to see each other. Literally beat the living crap, lower blood in the face. We talked about the wrestling magazines. That's how I knew about this food because it was just. Covered in blood. Yeah! You're right and I love what you said about the wrestling magazines, because probably more than any other few. That's on our list Tommy I, really dependent on the magazines to know what the story and how the story was following up with each and every match that they had I wasn't able to watch this play out on pay per views like we saw with. With stone cold Vince Mcmahon I was able to see this play out each and every week like a lot of the feuds that we're gonNA, talk about this was one that is strictly read in the magazines, and seeing those horrific for graphs of a bloodied Abdul, the butcher, seeing those pictures of Carlos Cologne literally with a fork in his forehead, those scenes that. That like a guy that we've spoken to before like a George Napa. Tahoe, like we really depended on the descriptions and the pictures to really know what this feud was all about. Yeah, and you know it went from Puerto Rico did go to mid Atlantic I, remember both you and I were pissed and we didn't know each other that we're so sue this. This match at night of champions and one of them no showed was Abdulah. And you know you just knew about this vicious vicious man and I wish and hope one day we Carlos on the show, just to talk about the business that him and abby did because he told me a story once where he was getting. Beat down by two people that I. Don't remember who the two guys were. And they went. He went Abdul. The butcher is home to ask him to be his partner and we all thought it was going to happen. It was going to happen and then Abdul. The butcher literally beat him up in the street and people were. They wanted to kill I mean this was when we say it's real Israel can be. There'd be riots and for us, witnessing it and I can't wait because w now owns all that footage. I cannot wait for W to put that footage on. The network because I get to see what I got to see through the magazines, and like you said I can picture right now. Do a butcher with a something wrapped in white tape and stick it in at Coral Colognes, mouse and I was just like God i. have to see these two people arrested, and I had no clue who Carlos Cologne was, but I thought at the time he was the baddest man in the world. Yeah, and I think when you look at the rest of the feuds. FEUDS, we're going to have on this list. There's going to be some realism, but definitely images that are just belted in the brain of each and every pro wrestling fan and a lot of stories, and we're gonNA continue, and the controversy may continue as well because when we come back, it's going to be our number seven or number six in our number five when Tommy. Nyerere back right here on a very special edition of busted open top ten greatest feuds of all time wwe, legend the undertaker. Tried my hardest to protect K. Fade honestly just within the last couple of years. Cringe when I hear people like we're doing now like talking openly about behind the scenes stuff, it would just like I grit my teeth, and this I think I was real last holdout to Keif listen the busted opens interview with wwe. Legend the undertaker on demand now via the SIRIUSXM APP just search busted open interviews now free for most subscribers, this busted open search top ten feuds special on Sirius Xm fire nation, fearing your hostesses Brecca, d. c. w., legend Tommy Dreamer. Welcome back to a very special edition of busted open our top ten greatest feuds of all time, and of course doing with the innovator of violence, a landlord hardcore Tommy Dreamer. Just so you know we're have a very special guest coming up in about fifteen minutes, somebody that's involved in number four feud of all time, not going to give away who it is, but we are going to have a guest on its involved in our number four. Time and I think that's going to cause a lot of controversy Tommy. Well, thanks for telling me keep me in the dark hair. I appreciate it. That's why the host and I'm just one of your minions, so I'm like I'm like one of the stooges when Vince McMahon's either brisker Thank you Mr Allow Graca priests my partner mother messages threw it at me last side. I didn't know it was happening either that's. But, let's get back into our our feuds again. At number ten. We had stone cold and Vince. McMahon at number nine. We had Shawn Michaels. And Bret Hart at Number Eight. We had Carlos Cologne Abdul the butcher and at number seven, and this is where you know having just one list is tough. 'cause this was much higher on my list. And that is the rock and roll express going up against a midnight express. I can totally agree with you. In a lot of people are going to have problems with that. This feud started in Memphis and then it went to mid South and then it carried over to. WCW and then smokey mountain a little bit of ww. E when you talk about a few to do business. This is always done business and talking about tag teams where. These guys innovative. In their tag team stuff and still had such feud, they made it personal with manager, each and every week, who was laid out ricky, Morton and Robert Gibson injured or laying in a pool of blood, and then the baby face was finally get their comeuppance, but what I'm trying to say is the personal issues that mouse of Jim Cornet. And they're innovative wrestling. Take team specialists why? This is such a great great feud in professional wrestling, and not too long ago, Tommy you and I sat down with Ricky more, and this is what he had to say about the feud with the rock and Roll Express and the Midnight Express. Operating and I think it's the greatest. Lasting. Feud in professional wrestling. Matches with these guys. That were believable, but then but see some things work. You have to carry a territory. Guys. That depend on you to make your living. Because we didn't have contracts and now that I never had a contract. Got Paid how many butch putting the seats? So I as you went home, see that we could. They are not explicit Yana. You had to have people to get us over and we had several. Several Future going. Let people see because. And we say ain't going into Louisiana Nickel Avocado I'm very door, so you gotTA sober and get US ready. For midnight, express and I mean and they did. Hack job with doing it on midnight with Iraq world wrestler. Go down in history. Just because expresses just how much. Cheaper cornered hat, and what great workers Bobby Shan Lane. And Dennis Agri were. And you know ricky more and talks about make the territory and that was ricky. Morton right here I'm busted open. He talks about making a territory. That's exactly what our number six did. Our number six feud on our list and that's Jerry. Lawler and bill done day man when you talk about business. I was a tape trader I never got Memphis wrestling, but I knew all about Memphis, wrestling from tape trading and from magazines, and you talk about we all know about Bruno Sammartino sellouts at Madison Square Garden but Jerry Lawler and bill. Dundee D. sold out the mid South cal seem seem on a weekly basis about their feuds, and they just kept on upping up a personal. Vendetta They Shave Bill Dundee's wife's head. They Shave Bill Dundee's head. Who won a he'll? One was a baby face. They'd flip flopped it and their business worked. And when you talk about a territory, be in hot, and also behind the scenes I know Bill Dundee has had issues with Jerry lawler Jerry lawler has add issues with Bill Dundee and these guys. They would switch the book. it behind the scenes, and when I'm just telling you a real another real life situation transpired on television while you talk about their personal issues. That's exactly what Bill Dundee told us right here. I'm busted open. When he was in love with me and I was in love him, but Clinton interviews. We would shake things back for that day about one another. He said dental start off a run legally he is well. No work out son of a gun I mean he will find out who I have. The rain, so we kind of put. Real feeling we're doing and he like working with me to click and. You're drawing money just run it. To draw more and we've been around forty years together, show well it. It clicked what we know went to one of those houses. We never wrote up under road together. We just saw one another the night of the show and that was it. We talk about personality classes. That's exactly what the feud in our number. Five slot was all about and to me. This feud is actually number one on my personal list, but in our combined busted open lists. It's at number five, and that's dusty Rhodes and Rick Flair. When you talk about personal issues, and you talk about a clash of styles and a clash of personalities, dusty Rhodes the common man rich ric flair, the nature boy dusty, Rhodes perceived as the family man major boy. perceived as the the man, the guy apart every night, dusty, driving a pickup truck, ric flair in limousines, this feud and the business that they did and switching for the NWEA tied, or the later the WCW championship. This was personal issues. WHO WAS BREAKING BOOTLEG? Who would turn on poor dusty? Everybody turned on dusty There was so many. Interesting levels of this feud where today if dusty was still alive and Rick Flair. was still you I never wanted to see those two guys ever working as a cohesive unit ever. Well you know what I. Don't think this is going to be the last time that we see dusty Rhodes on this list. And when we come back Tommy worlds to speak to somebody who's involved in our number, four top ten feud in our top Tang greatest feuds of all time right here on busted open you're listening to busted opens top ten hugues special under home for pro wrestling Sirius Xm fight nation show one fifty six soccer is a passion that goes beyond the sport and Sirius Xm FC's podcasts more than a Game Brings Dad Passion to you. You? In each episode FCC panel of Experts Take a deep dive into club. Mysteries iconic grounds tales. Rivalries, and so much more is nothing Dhabi diametric. The new episodes are available weekly by downloading the Pandora and searching more than a game. The feuds that will forever be cemented wrestling history. This busted opens top ten feud special on Sirius Xm fight nation, welcome back to busted open top ten greatest feuds of all time with my partner innovator of ounce, a landlord at House of Hardcore Tommy Dreamer and let's recap so far. The feuds that we've talked about it number ten stone, cold and Vince McMahon at number nine Shawn. Michaels and Bret Hart at Number Eight Carlos Cologne and. And Abdul the butcher at number, seven rock and roll express and midnight express at number, six Jerry, lawler and Bill Dundy at number five and I had do this one kicking and screaming dusty Rhodes and Rick Flair and let's talk about number four, and who better Tommy than to talk about the number four feud than the innovator via himself, and of course. Raven. Who's our guest talking about Tommy? Dreamer and Raven Raven. How are you today? Good other than the fact that dreamers on the same program. I can't believe I've I'm the CO host of this show? I've been so loyal to you. And you bring in an without telling me Mrs just Bob is right when he says about you. Well I mean we are talking the top ten greatest feuds of all time, and if Tommy Dreamer is going to host it, we are going gonNA. Have to get on because Raven I think you would agree when you look at the few that you had Tommy an e c w. it is truly memorable and truly wanted a greatest feuds of all time. It actually would have been even even more incredibly memorable. If meantime you'd had our way because. When I left there to first time being Tommy knee, he didn't WANNA lose I didn't WANNA put him over, and so we wanted to. We both knew I'd be back someday, so So Paula Paulie? Police position he had to make sure to Tommy got his win before I left, but I'll great with data. If I were left in, Tommy never got his win. That would've would have been great. But I agree with. Let me agree with him I'll go on the record. Yeah, we! We didn't want it to happen. Because we knew it would be back and just I wanted that to be where I couldn't beat and and. You know it all worked out, but my favorite part and I had this a lot higher raven we. Are To list together. Apparently, I had it at two and not do a personal ego than it would been number one sure. He wrote the same as well with you, but just. To just so it looks like it was an ego. But mine was for one the amount of detail we put in. As well as forget about amount of blood that we put in, but also the amount of characters that spawned from this feud enemy, we also we pretty much carried on our feud from E C W wasn't at all the same wwe, but there was just different times whenever we worked for the hardcore I got kicked off broad, and you got you. beat me on eat, so you could go back to raw. Even do stuff an impact. Throughout years it still works even recently showed up on impact at times. You're my friend. At times you came me. in the face and I bleed and have to go to a hospital during the beginning of a pandemic. You don't care about me. To me. The biggest thing is is the people that spawned from this, and it was you know Stevie. Beulah Francine the pit bulls bruise brothers. Brian, Lee. The Dudley's meany than the beat wwl, all these different people came about almost as your hench people, and they then went on and had careers as well and you know even when we recently as A. This year got together in Atlanta. The moment they see us. They don't know what's going to go on. And there was still chant east w for the memories that we gave. I think I finally figured it out fest. An Ad Promos did where I said I'm not sure whether I love you or hate you. and. I read it at some point to hate you. Know hated and love her just complete opposites, but they kind of blur together at certain is the at the boundaries. and. But I do I do miss being like seeing you in person because I can throw food on the ground and step on it, and you'll still eat it. How that's all I don't do. I won't do that anymore because. Know, I won't. The pandemic has changed. My lifestyle plus weekly I lost a lot of my offense. I can't eat any food that I. Find when I'm wrestling. I can't drink drink and spit it in somebody's face by half. My offense has gone due to this coronal. You surviving, not being it shows. I I well every Wednesday I, call it a blading. Wednesday and Thursday do roles Fridays I take bumps. I wrestle I take. Majesty, Inari wrestles. I still have my old school wrestling buddies and I just do jobs at every once in a while. Guys talk about the length of this feud because it was a lengthy feud and you know nowadays, we're used to feuds lasting. You know a few weeks leading up to a pay per view, your feud lasted for years and Raven. Let me ask you I like. How were you and Tommy able to keep up the longevity and not only longevity, but the fan interest all that time because we're complete opposites, you know he's a nice guy on the dirt ball. You know but also we keep it intelligent. You know. Keep a very, we don't. We don't talk down to our audience. We we make them come up to our level, or they're or they're already at our level, but but. There's something to be said for not treating you audience like a bunch of dumb marks. You know what I mean like. You know I've been told before my promos or too highbrow people don't get it, but you know it's like you know. People. People don't WanNa. Be talked down to people a lot smarter than we give credit for you know they're also not as smart as you know. The smart fans aren't as smart as they think they are by any stretch your imagination, but the same joke in their fans are not anywhere near as dumb as everybody thinks. and Dave you know when when Ravens says, we were complete opposites. You know I was the popular kid. He was the not so popular kid I was. The jockey was the athletic kid. But. We everyone everything that we did was so relatable that you know hey, and people ask us about what summer camp we we went to, and we had a a personal issue. You know again was also over a girl, and all the different things that we did. We did a lot of firsts, and it was the creative freedom of to wrestling fans because Raven. He was a wrestling fan. Growing up in West Palm Beach was. Dusty rose and all sorts of Florida wrestling, and then we're also wrestling fans watching Jerry lawler so much of the stuff that we took from other heated heated angles and then incorporated to add time. We took we take. We didn't steal other angles. We figured out what made them click. And then we took the the concept and applied it and put our own spin on it, but that's the part of the problem. Is People just do what they see, so? They go on and do this thing because somebody else did it, but if you don't know why they did it then, you can't truly perfect then you can't. All you're doing is just copying them. You're not. You're not making it part of your own vernacular. Understood. Would you say that your feud with Tommy? Raven was probably the last of the old school pro wrestling feuds. The. Man was. Does that game right after me and Tommy, but then being Tommy can remain Sammy kept going to, but it didn't have the legs of me and it i. mean it has legs. Don't get me wrong, but it still when people think of see w think of me Tommy, but a lot of it's because. The. It's it's so simple. He could never beat me. You know what I mean you know. He was in love. He knows there was a factor although was in love with him that I slept with because what I got and he. And he didn't want nothing do and she comes back and sees hot I. Mean You know people? Everybody knows somebody that it has something to do with that kind of relationship you know. and and the fact that he couldn't pin me for so long even when he finally did pin me all it did was end like you know the first act. Was the end of the first act, and then from there like like people don't realize, but you know that that the way it was built, the whole thing was just a prelude to the rest of the feud in finally, beating was just a prelude to what came after. And you know like Bill Dundee said to you know for me and Raven. We really didn't hang out in the same circles. We didn't hang out after shows. and though we were at the time friends, but that was just it was a different business for us, and if we're talking about today, I could probably list to feuds that of current wrestlers. Edge and Randy Orton and maybe Qodian M M J. F are the only real feuds and. Randy and edge went personal, but they didn't have a three year storyline that has still carried on today. Because whenever I see, you know. We recently were an impact when people stand when when people see me in Raven younger wrestlers, they'll be like I'll see people pointing at us, and they also don't know whether we like each other, or because we just go at it a lot because what we do, but we don't. Friendlier Way, but what I'm trying to say is like people don't know what you're going to get and it's funny like we just did a recent story. He came to save. He cleared the ring because I was down there, it was like yeah, here comes, and then he came the in the face, and it's just like Oh they've seen it so many times, but they never know or expect the last time sauce together. We shook hands and. And we took out Eli Drake and it's just those from memories that are over twenty years and we also we also never switched roles like in a lot of feuds dies. Although baby face, he'll back and forth. We've never switched roles in this. He's always you know. I mean some day we may, but if we do it, it'll be one time you know, but it's already been what ninety five twenty five years. You know so Twenty five years with the simple. He's a baby phase. I'm the he'll. Sometimes I start to show signs of doing the right thing and other times I. Don't and so you never really know what's coming and I think that people enjoy me turning on them almost as much as as I. Enjoy turning on them. By the same token, so they're Kinda. So there's a certain letdown factor, also if I don't turn on them, which is which is ironically weird. And even when Raven returned to EC W and night, which was one of the loudest POPs ever allows the history of C W. After board, he's. No. It was first. Second was yours in Queens. Salmon's return in Philly was the loudest ever thank you. Let's continue and he was still my partner but he like he would turn on me. He liked the glory of the title and everything that we did you know we fought for the one cause, but then the main cause was you know usually raven, and what about him is all about Raven and we? Just we had and still have an amazing I, really identifiable characters like you would raven would. Would do most any situation because he he elaborated on that, he he behaved in a certain way to you could. You could profile and so did Tommy Dreamer like you know. He was always the good guy. The and you knew in any situation how he's going to behave. And you knew how I was going to be. Hey, which lend itself to knowing where things are going, but then we'd always put a twist on end so that you never really saw. Where was actually going? And I. Think the beauty of it, and this is my last question. Would it be about wins and losses now in two thousand and twenty I don't know how important wins and losses are in professional wrestling in your feud. It was all about that. Win for Tommy Dreamer, so it's all about it even, but even now with wins and losses being less academic. It doesn't matter because everybody understands the concept of one guy can't beat another guy. You know it doesn't matter. If he wins loses in every other match, you could win every other match and then just not be able to beat me. or by the same token I could lose every match, but I still beat him every time. You know it either way, it's like it's like an unbeaten streak. You know the exact opposite, but the exact same thing really is a winning streak. Well for me. I know there would be no Tommy. Dreamer if it wasn't for Raven the perfect ying to my Yang Luke, skywalker could not get over if there wasn't darth vader and Raven was my darth vader. He Represents Evil and everything that I hate will continue fighting with him till I. Have No more air left in my body. And he recently said if we were an old age home together, he would just mess with my meds and mess with. Stuff while I was dying in an old age home. Yes I and I meant it. Rape and thank you so much for the time again. Talking about our number will four feud in our top ten greatest feuds of all time. When we come back, our top three were count them down when Tommy Nyerere back right here I'm busted. Open your home for all things. Combat Sports is Sirius Xm fire nation start your. Day With Hall of fame. Pro Wrestling's on busted open. We sped these men and women bill the business and the. Show keeps you up to date on all things. Boxing boxing is the theater of young expect, and the Nigerian Luke Thomas. has you covered for Mixed Martial Arts Joe? Logan is the most important influence in all the fighting broken down like nowhere else. Only on Sirius Xm nation one fifty stakes. The feuds that will forever be cemented wrestling history. This busted open top ten feud special on Sirius. XM fight nation. Welcome back to bust it open top ten greatest feuds of all time myself Dave Graca and the innovator of violence the landlord house of Hardcore himself, Tommy Dreamer first of all. Thank you to Raven. You can follow Raven on all social media platforms at the Raven. Affect Gray talking the Raven. Tommy about the number four feud of all time you and Raven himself. Matthew say so. He's all right. Okay. That's that just. He doesn't even follow me on social media. You didn't for the first nine years of our relationship, but let's recap our true. That's absolutely true, but let's recap. Ten through four at number, ten stone, cold versus Vince McMahon at number nine. Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart at Number Eight Carlos, Cologne, and Abdul the butcher at number, seven rock and roll express and midnight express at number six Jerry, lawler and Bill Dundee at number, five dusty Rhodes and Ric flair at number four, just mentioned Tommy Dreamer and Raven at number three and again another feud, where you can make the case that this could be number one and added Tommy Wildfire, rich and mad dog buzz Sawyer Man. You talk about wildfire. You talk about bloodshed. It seemed like every single week. These two guys went at both of us. Kind of grew up watching these two guys beating the living crap out of each other, and we waited as wrestling fans. It was the holy grail of tapes. To, try to find this footage of the the last battle of Atlanta in the first, ever wargame I'm sorry. Yeah, I ever elimination chamber match. Really well at the cage. That's right. Sorry It was Tommy rich and Buzzer, the last battle of Atlanta and I remember as a kid. That's all I wanted for Christmas, and these guys. Every single week had just it was again. Opposites. You look a Buzz Sawyer back then. We didn't know he had a. you know an amateur background, but he was just such a bad ass and Tommy rich was the baby face country guy who just go in and fight for what was right, and they bled buckets and buckets of blood all throughout Georgia. And that's why for me. It was so so high and to the point Tommy. Tommy where a lot of people say that this really hurt. The future of both wrestlers both Tommy Wildfire Rich Buzz Sawyer really were never the same after this feud, and it's the few that helped me fall in love with pro wrestling I say it all the time I'm busted open. Tommy rich was the first face I ever saw when I watched pro wrestling for the first time, and it was during the feud with mad. Dog Buzz Sawyer and Tommy Rich, who was once a guest on bust open had this to say about mad dog Buzz Sawyer both times don't last they. Should be lucky by the twelve back then and we run around two years almost so a lot of people being buzz, but when? He was business and I mean we have a heck of around the longest biggest fear of all time. I mean that's where the hell and say okay come. Back. And you know for you? Know Tommy Rich to talk about Buzz Sawyer in that way and you know Buzz Sawyer left us quite a year quite amount of years ago, Tommy Tommy, rich and Buzz Sawyer two years like he said they did the loop, and when he talks about the loop. That was you know. During the time of Georgia championship wrestling, they didn't travel the world. Travel just around that area during the early eighties Georgia championship wrestling, but just like you and Raven did you know in Philly? They were able to keep everyone's attention for those entire two years. Yeah, and in that small area we've talked about Georgia championship wrestling how small it really was, and it was a great place to cut your teeth in professional wrestling to continue to build houses and build a feud for two years like Tommy said at that time is unheard. And as you mentioned before, they really innovated to Helena. Sal because they were the first ones that had the cage match with the roof on top of the cage, so no one can escape, and then you know that last battle of Atlanta you're right for a lot of years, and now it's it's simple. You just put on the wwe network, and there's the last battle of Atlanta Tommy for decades and decades, we could not find that match to the point Tommy where I kinda doubt it myself if that matches even happens because I couldn't find any of footage of it I asked Bill. Apter in Miami wants about it, and he couldn't recall the match, but. Now is the Holy Grail, and now you can watch it on the wwe network, the final match nephew, the last battle of Atlanta and if you think about it, they lied to us because they told US television. Cameras would be there and guess what did show, but hey the benefit of wrestling fans. It worked well I well, you know what they were true to their word, Tommy because the footage that was found was not from a TV camera for. For that to be played on any show was the actual that camera that was in the arena that showed it on the projection screen in the arena that the tape that you've seen a lot of people complain because there's no angles is just one because that footage the footage from the arena so that they can play it on the big screen for the people that were in the cheap seats, so you really up until recently you could not see that match definitely deserves to be number three on our list of the top ten greatest feuds of all time, and that number two again you commit to case. This could be number one and we did a a watch a long video that you can find on the busted open podcast Army of how this feud started in a match between Rick Flair and Kerry, Von Erich, but at number two of the top ten greatest of all time, the von, Eric's and the free. Birds Man, and when we did that interview with Kevin, von Erich which to me was one of my favorite interviews. We've ever together talking about the territories of world class. You know. He put over the feud for the von Eric's and like the gentleman that he is. He also talked about the business that he did with Chris Adams and Gino Hernandez another great feud or Kabuki in the Magic Dragon, and it was just for him. Right place right time another story line. They all came in as friends. They were boys with David von Erich, and then you know the free lifestyle wasn't coexisting with the von Erich. Wholesome lifestyle closed the cage on. Kerryon Eric's head and the war erupted on the business that they did you know we could follow it on television was now. We have Madison Square. Garden Network. The good in the bed was. If you go back and watch it now. Von Eric's would literally beat them on television. And why the IT? They were so over. The the good guys were always winning, but the bad guys were able to go back yet. E and that was a big difference in that few I. Don't know if that feud can coexist today. That way, but that was a different time and a unique time and unique way business. Well you mentioned could versus Evil Kevin Eric when he was a guest. Right here on busted open describe that when talking about it, the feud with the free birds when you're putting something together, good versus evil people can sink their teeth into that they understand it, and when you take real real points like like brother like a right and wrong I mean the people can sink our teeth on that they feel like they're part of it, and it's it. That's one thing I think are neglecting nowadays they they don't have that aspect. I think that was really. Really important for us for people to get behind you know and you know what Kevin von Erich. Explain that many times in Promos when talking about the feud with the with the free birds, it wasn't Texas versus the south. It was good versus evil. It was you know it was decency versus guys that he thought were immoral like he really did a great job explaining why we have the feuds on this top ten list to begin with great job by Kevin Eric Absolutely I. You know simplistic in its form I. It's you know God versus the devil. Everybody. Every good story line has its good versus evil I. don't Care What Book what movie it has to have a beginning. As having end, we saw that with the free birds von Eric's and that's why did such great business fall throughout Texas and Kevin von Erich and you Tommy both explained, and both of you are involved in two of the greatest feuds of all time that are on our list, but our number one feud. Tommy the best way to explain it would be good versus evil, good in its purest form, and the evil, and its darkest as form, and that is dusty, Rhodes and Kevin Sullivan. The American dream, dusty Rhodes, my hero, he was the savior for professional wrestling along Cain the devil that's right a devil worshipper, a Satan worshipper, and he was everything that the American dream was not and when you WanNa talk about personal levels and I know debut of just so into this territory now but. I watched Kevin Solvent. Stab Dusty Rhodes I watched him throw ink and Dusty Rhodes. Sisters is and her screaming and dusty, grabbing sister as opposed to fighting Kevin exchanging. Titles exchanging you know the amount of blood getting dusty Rhodes to leave, Florida, that would be. The hottest baby face at the time. If it's compared today, I don't know Roman reigns having to leave the wwe because someone made him leave the wwe. Kevin Sullen made the hottest star to leave, and yes, then he came back with under a mask as the midnight rider, and their business continued, and they had so many different angles, and they had like a same with me and Raven. You know so many other characters got involved. They were established on and Raven. Are Characters warned established, but you had woman You had the purple haze. You had a a young Ludovic. You had bobbed Roop. You had Sarah Oliver Humperdinck. You have blackjack Mulligan Barry Windham. You had so many different people trying to fight for what was right in the world and the world of dusty roads, leading the charge and Florida championship wrestling was on fire, the phenomenal business that they did for so long, and you know besides the bloodshed. David Selling out stadiums on this feud alone and having to continue it week to week. Trust me, it's hard, but like Ricky Morton said a lot of other wrestlers have said that's how you fed your families and to. To have such a feud where people want to see each other kick, the living crap at each other, and then was a lot of choose and a lot of false finishes as opposed to what we're used to today, but to continue to do that business all throughout on a weekly basis, and have all those different swears where the fans don't know what's going to happen is what was key and why to me and to you? This is the number one feud in professional wrestling because it was, it was the greatest representation of good versus evil. And I know there's a lot of feuds Tommy and we talked about. It's GonNa. It's GonNa Cause a star with the bus open nation. Because you know I, see, I'll say it. The greatest series of matches that I've ever seen was ric flair and Ricky steamboat, not on the list. A lot of people talk about even recently with you know, Cada and Omega you know not on the list and to me. Those aren't like what you would really define. As feuds crate series of matches, two guys that could work together perfectly, but I wouldn't say that they're. They're foods I think when you look at the essence of good versus evil I. Really Think we did a good job of getting the top ten greatest feuds of all time just to recap Tommy before we get your final take at number ten stone, cold versus Vince McMahon at number, nine Shawn Michaels, and Bret Hart at Number Eight, Carlos. Cologne and Abdul the butcher at number seven, the rock and roll express in the midnight. Express at number six Jerry, lawler and Bill Dundee at number, five, dusty Rhodes and Ric flair at number, four Tommy, dreamer and Raven Tommy rich and Buzz Sawyer at number two, the free birds versus devan Erickson at number, one dusty, Rhodes and Kevin Sullivan yeah man and putting together this list. We've left out so many people dusty, Rhodes and Terry funk the assassins. Versus Dusty Rhodes, the funks versus the Briscoes, the list dusty Rhodes versus the call off. The list can go on and on. This is ours. This is our contact us on social media. If you feel like we're wrong, but we did the best to what we feel and the reasons why? I think we dived in deep again. If you have a problem, use the Hashtag top ten feuds of all time. tweet us at busted open radio again. You can always hear us on busted open from nine to noon Monday through Saturday on Sirius Xm Fire Nation Channel One, fifty six. We always do a good job Tommy Tommy. Thank you, thanks to the busted open. Nation will talk to you later on right here on busted open. This has been busted open top ten feuds special search bust open specials on demand for more great wrestling contents follow us on twitter at busted open radio.

Tommy Tommy wrestling Tommy Dreamer Vince McMahon Raven Raven dusty Rhodes Bret Hart Carlos Cologne Abdul Jerry Lawler Shawn Michaels Bill Dundee Rick Flair partner Ravens Carlos Cologne Tommy rich Ricky Morton Sirius w. w
Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network: Wrestling Observer Live (August 1, 2019)

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network: Wrestling Observer Live (August 1, 2019)

"At Ace we believe there's nothing better than helping kids. That's why we've been proud to support children's Miracle Network Hospitals for over twenty five years this Friday through Sunday. Get our five gallon wound bucket in twenty percent off almost anything that fits inside when you donate five dollars to support children's miracle network hospitals and like Ace cmnhospitals our local so the money you donate donate helps kids near you. The helpful hardware offer valid at participating stores on regular price merchandise only additional conditions and exclusions apply see store for details. Let's say you just bought a house bad news. Is your one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll proudly mow the lawn and see if anybody noticed you mow the lawn and tell people to stay off the lawn. Compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again. Good news is it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive of and save on your car insurance which of course we'll go right into the Lawn Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers discount not available in all states or situations comes from San Francisco Sports byline broadcasting network. You're listening to wrestling observer by with your hosts Bryan Alvarez and Mike Simple V. going. Everybody elver is here on wrestling observer live. We are here every day Monday. Through Friday new Pacific three eastern Sunday's re Pacific six ABC's turn now Saturdays as well with Jim Valley at ten A._M.. Pacific one eastern a lot of news to get into here today and unfortunately literally right as as we were going on the air the news that Harley race has passed away being reported all over the Internet Harley race one of the one of the all time time legendary hall of famers in this business multi time N._W._e._a.. World heavyweight champion he was a trainer. He was one of the toughest guys in wrestling in that era and Dave meltzer is going to be joining us in the second segment of the show. We'll talk all about life and times of Harley race. He was inducted into the hall of fame the N._W._e._a.. Hall of fame the professional wrestling hall of fame the Wrestling Observer Hall of fame one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. If you have memories of Harley race welcome to give us a call here today on the show eight four four four eleven five four eleven is the phone number is eight four four four four eleven at five four eleven. You can send your text messages to four to five seven eight zero seven five six six. There's all sorts of stuff up on on the w network with Harley race. If you WANNA see some of his championship matches title changes with Ric Flair and others. It's all up there on the W network my presumption is we'll have a lot of stuff on Harley race on W._B._Z.. Programming over the next week or so I'd be stunned if we did not and obviously a lot to talk about on on at wrestling observer dot com as well so more on Harley race coming up later on in the program today also everything that's going on in wrestling the announcement mints will has not been officially announced but it does appear that the MS Indulge Ziglar not taking place because Goldberg will be facing dolls ziglar at Summer Slam A._M.. We got more on the all out show coming up the G. One ratings and so much more and we will kick it off after the break wrestling observer live mm-hmm <music> at Ace. We believe there's nothing better than helping helping kids. That's why we've been proud to support children's Miracle Network Hospitals for over twenty five years this Friday through Sunday get our five gallon bucket and twenty percent off almost anything that fits inside aside when you donate five dollars to support children's miracle network hospitals and like Ace cmnhospitals our local so the money you donate helps kids near you is the place with the helpful aw offer valid participating stores on regular price merchandise only additional conditions and exclusions apply see store for details. Don't Miss Old Navy Saturday steal this Saturday Saturday. All jeans are on sale for fifty percent off plus. Get three kids deals like graphic tees and tanks and seven dollar girls stresses Saturday only at old navy and old navy dot com validate three the excludes in store clearance select styles on kills girl stresses. You're listening to wrestling observer live with Bryan Alvarez and like Semper Vivey Levi on the sports byline broadcasting network. The show right now is here wrestling observer live via also wrestling observer dot com as noted in the opening segment literally right as we were going on the air. We got word Harley race of the all time greats in professional wrestling passed away apparently today don't have a lot of details have been reported that he was battling lung cancer although others had denied that and he'd been hospitalized specialized of late and there was a report coming out of that hospital hospitalization that did not sound great and today it appears that that he passed away a believe earlier today. We'll get more details here. As the day goes on they meltzer joining us in the second segment of the show to talk more about Harley race racist noted the opening segment all time all time legend professional wrestling hall of Famer in every hall of fame that has a hall of fame and multi time time and w.h champion worked for the Awa W._C._W.. W._W._f.. He been promoting his own organization up until I believe a year or two ago <hes> he had still been doing that and trained all sorts of people and I don't even know what else say about Harley race but my thoughts on the king a hall of Famers <hes> Hall of Famer he really is <hes> <hes> started his career <hes> driving around Happy Humphrey one of the original Fatman the seven hundred pound unhappy Humphry <hes> and you know even before that the story a Harley race that the legendary tough guy he was expelled from school for knocking out the principal who tried to break up a fight which is how he ended up getting interesting anyway <hes> badgered the the VISCO brothers the originals viscose now Larry's visco go stanislas Bisco and and started working for them ended up doing more work on the farm for them then he really actually did any wrestling training ends up hooking up with Gus Karras who's a name that historians would know <hes> for his work in the central states area and being a promoter there and and the story of Harley race and I'm sure Dave will tell the story. You're probably going to hear a lot of people tell the story and I'm not sure how many people know it of harleys career almost never got started because at the age of eighteen he was working and I think it was in Tennessee and he got into a car the accident but tragic car accident he killed his first wife and it was so bad that he almost lost his leg and doctors were going to amputate the leg and Karras had rushed us to the hospital and if it was not for him stopping doctors from cutting off Harley race's leg the <unk> entire course of wrestling history have changed and he did not get back into the ring. That's a badly he was hurt. He did not get back into the ring until nineteen sixty four when he went to Amarillo to work for the funk family and I believe it was there that he hooked up with her <hes> Larry haning running which then of course led to his run in the AWA and that run <hes> as pretty boy Harley race and and and handing and race and being he called the Dolly Sisters by the Bruiser and crusher that started off everything and then of course that leads to the legendary run in the end of U._A.. Because those of his reputation that he had already built where he ended up being the stopgap measure between Dory phone junior and Jack Brisco when funk either either got into a wreck on the ranch and hurt himself or just did not want to give up the title on that day to Jack Brisco they made sure he was going to give up the title title when he was quote. Unquote cleared the comeback by putting Harley race in the ring with him and that started off his eight time rain as N._W._e._a.. w.h champion and that of course legendary in itself and you're GonNa hear a lot of tributes you're gonNA hear a lot about Harley race and he deserves every single one one of them and probably more of them so very very sad situation he had been very sick for a long time he had been running. <hes> W L W <hes> which was his training center in. I believe I can't remember exactly where it was. It was somewhere in Missouri out there Eldon Missouri. I believe that it was he had a deal with no of the promotion gain some traction when Noah was blowing up and where she moves coming over here to the United States <hes> that was probably probably the peak of Harley to my knowledge Kinda cranking guys Trevor Murdoch being one of those guys Harley Love Trevor Murdoch <hes> he was one of those guys is it came out of there and there were a few others as well too but they did have a nice alliance knowing that ended up seeing Takeshi more Shema I believe when he was still global. Honored Crown Champion can come over and work in Eldon Missouri and Harley was a integral part of him getting a couple of W._W._e.. Tryout matches. I think on Youtube those as matches are available where he get more Sheba coming out if I'm not mistaken using earthquakes music or something like that I believe that's what it was but regardless he just an absolute all time legend and I mean again. You've never heard he almost everything said about Harley. Race is in complete superlatives of of how great he was how tough he was how fast he drove. You never hear anybody really say how big of a bastard he was or anything anything like that. Almost all of the stories are positive and man. There's going to be a ton of them to come out from his visual twitter account today. At twelve fifty we lost a man that fought up till the very last of his existence more information will be released soon but just know that he loved pro wrestling in the fans that loved him Harley race. We From Dave I don't even know how Goldberg is avenging his performance against the undertaker and he's going to come back here and he's going to probably destroyed Dolf Ziegler in about thirty seconds and is going to be an old Goldberg match our guests. I don't think they're going to go eight minutes. I could be wrong. I don't know what they're going to do but I wouldn't be surprised. Let's just put it this way. I don't think that this is Goldberg's last match. I also don't think Goldberg is going to be a regular but I do think that you're going to be seeing Goldberg every now and then show up and massacre somebody who's not really doing much and sending everybody home happy so that appears to be the match for Summer Slam good those baffling story and this is nothing against you but the first thing that I thought of when he started to incorporate Goldberg's name name was he was gonNA face Colbert for two reasons the biggest one being I think Goldberg wants to get the the taste of Saudi Arabia out of his mouth and never see everything thing that went sideways in the in the goal in the undertaker match but also because we know Shawn Michaels really doesn't WanNa Russell. We've seen that and yes he t she took the super kick and then okay that was that he added Mick Foley's name which I took his like some sort of you know <hes> salt in the is there <hes> <hes> a distraction he was already laid out by the fiend. We already saw that. The Goalpara thing just made sense and I am. I think most baffled by the guy or whoever it was from W._w._f.. Were W._W._e.. That call Dave and was like I can't believe you crack the code. Look I mean are they that yes I guess they are. They have their head in the sand that much I guess as far as like what they think they're doing is just like such incredibly high drama in just so baffling for everybody to to comprehend will in some ways it is actually baffling to comprehend because that seemed like the most obvious match especially for a guy like Dolf ziglar who well dude. He may really just leaning back there in the first place because they needed somebody to go to Saudi Arabian owns wouldn't go duty mentioned his name and like three straight interviews I mean how could you not think I think that was a possibility like how can you be surprised if someone you knew it's not going to be shown if it's not going to be the MS that left seth rollins ain't GonNa be seth. Rollins already has a match the exact and it's not going to be fully because he can't get cleared. I mean this is not like strong protective order here. I just yeah I mean big congratulations on your sleuth sleuth work there but then again I just. I don't know I'm amazed by W._W._e.. Sometimes they're really him back. In the day or wrestling observer live look at Ace. We believe there's nothing better than helping kids. That's why we've been proud to support children's Miracle Network Hospitals for over twenty thirty five years this Friday through Sunday get our five gallon bucket and twenty percent off almost anything that fits inside when you donate five dollars to support children's miracle network hospitals and like the case cmnhospitals our local so the money you donate helps kids near you. The place with the helpful hardware offer valid at participating stores on regular price merchandise only additional additional conditions and exclusions apply see store for details get to old navy for the biggest sale of the year up to sixty percent off all back to school styles for kids and baby get flipflops APPs for two bucks graphic tees for four box shorts for six dollars and jeans for eight dollars right now. Get the best kid styles at kid sized prices. Just two four six six and eight dollars can't wait to where it by online and pick up in store free today up to sixty percent off all kids and baby styles now at old navy and old navy dot com valid like seven two thousand nine hundred eleven select styles excludes in store clearance <music>. You're listening to wrestling observer live with Bryan Alvarez and Mike Semper Vivey on the sports byline broadcasting network Zuber live reveal wrestling observer dot com. They built their joining us here today for the show Oh under sad circumstances here and before he came on Dave somebody texted this January twenty four nineteen eighty-one Final Roy Shire car to the Cow Palace Final Match Harley Race Pat Patterson says I'm certain Dave Meltzer was there. I was there believes may have been a count out in knotty double d q you remember that match. I think it was double count yeah yeah I mean it was a really good match. It was <hes> you know Patterson and just won the battle royal earlier in the show. Oh get the championship match and yeah it was the last we didn't know if the last card wish I was going to promote because they announced a new date you know and then the television was off the air and and and it was done because he didn't want to fight vern Ganja would come into territory starting to run at Better T._V. and access to bigger stars so so <hes> yeah that would have been the last match that <hes> Shire ever promoted. It was very good match tells about the life of Harley race all time <music> Hall of Famer. Oh are they race when the greatest of all time for sure <hes> there's so much to be said he was a no it was known as a tough guy a tough streetfighter. He started around progressing at the age of fifteen. He was like <hes> he used to work on the farm of Stanislas Bisco who was like a legendary wrestler in at the turn of the century and <hes> was probably in the ring you know as a teenager for sure and was a big star. He was born born in forty three so he was a star by the age of about ninety nine I think and <hes> it get a big run. When he was in his early twenties Awa Larry Hennig the they were nicknamed the Dolly Sisters they were the Awa world champions and their feud with bruiser and crusher it really helps with the Awa on the math and made the Awa tag team title and do you know what for years was considered the number one tag team title in pro wrestling and then after for leaving the Awa he went back home to the central states he bought into promotion? He was the biggest star there was a headliner for years fifteen seventeen years in St Louis <hes> which was probably the top wrestling city in the country at the time and then got his first world title and seventy three being dory from I'm junior which was quite the story because <hes> Dory was supposed to lose to Jack Brisco. There was the ranch accident just days before the match everyone was he's got the clothes if they're accident was real or not and they didn't really trust the funks in N._W._e._a.. was falling apart in some ways and <hes> the funks greatly respected race everyone did and so the when when Dora came back <hes> to wrestle he wrestled a few matches in his territory territory but they ordered him to drop the title race right away in Kansas City which did they had a nice dispute finish but he did do it and that started race was only supposed to be the guy to get the title <hes> it was a lot of manipulations going on. I think that Dorje senior didn't want <hes> Dorey Story Junior to lose to Jack Brisco although door senior died right at you know very shortly after this match in a heart attack and racist job was to hold the title short period of time and lose to Jack Brisco who was the guy they wanted to be the champion but he did so well in that. I guess it was about seven weeks is champion. He became everywhere. He went <hes> and the N._W._e._a.. Championship was a big deal at the time anyway everywhere he went he got over <hes> huge huge in and he was essentially a legend in the business from that point on everywhere he went. He was atop guy always a top contender for the world title <hes> when Briscoe Briscoe decide to give up the title it came down to the only two guys that were even considered where race and Terry Terry Punk God it then race was promised that after Terry funk gave it up that he would get it he got it held it for four years. There were those the one we things in between but I mean censor- support your runs. The top guy in the business all over the wrestled wrestled all over the world. Probably the most traveled champion because he went to Japan all the time he went to New Zealand and he went to Australia. You went to Mexico which only he says is ever went to as far as N._W._e._a.. World champions as far as I can recall <hes> and went to other other places around the world so <hes> get he you know he he was probably the you know recognized as world champion and more places independent in more places than any world champion of that era as far as more companies as any world champion possibly of all time and <hes> that was kind of his legacy and you know he's still around the business the rest of his life training wrestlers and and <hes> running his own local promotion and <hes> having Japan Super Legend in Japan as well as the United States tells the story of Win Vince in stride to essentially steal the title so that was in nineteen eighty three this was about to go national and Harley race was the w world champion he'd beaten Ric flair in St Louis with the idea that he would have a short run and then he would wear would when It's teams I think eighteen yeah very early in his career <hes> in his career that they thought his career was over that at that point and you know ended up Rushland for the next thirty one years so even after he was attacked by Vincent McMahon he still came in three years later the money at that point. They didn't trust him. 'cause there was a situation I think you know it's one of these Hogan story so you never know but but I had heard the story when it happened and not from Hogan but <hes> they had come to <hes>. I think it was probably Kansas City runner show W._f._A._N.. Harley went to the show and he was the opposite promoter order of the local promotion and story is that he pulled a gun on cogan scared coca death. <hes> you know like you guys shouldn't be here. This is my territory toy. That was kind of like the mentality at the time but like a year or two later <hes> you know the company lost so much money and Harley went to inst- and said you know <hes> can I come in I and of course he was a superstar brought him in but they didn't trust him against like they could have gone in with Harley race in Hogan right away and certain parts of the country that would it's been like a dream match with eating with it right away because they were he didn't fully trust Harley when they finally went Hogan's finally trusted Harley they worked and they worked everywhere in hoping beat them everywhere. It was not as big a program as they had hoped for especially St Louis and Kansas City 'cause really harleys or had had dropped by the time this like eighty six. <hes> you know a few years earlier I think Hogan and Harley would have been amazed. They really didn't <hes> but yeah yeah it was that houseguest story to mice couple more quick one. I would have a couple of years with the one I'd say is I guess put a little capsule on the story of of Harley and Jerry lawler when he actually became the king and how much controversy that stirred up and how much of a headache you was against for the W._W._f.. Trying to run in Tennessee where he couldn't be the King Yeah <hes> they he won this <hes> King of the Ring Tournament and they named him that the king they wanted to give him a moniker and actually I mean the funny thing is is <hes> Harley took a big compliment king of wrestling but when they did it and no one few people people know it but it was told me he was actually to make fun of him because he took hardly took being the best restaurant in the world seriously I'll always remember the story and Ribera Steakhouse Boggling. Oh you know had told me and showed it to me there. Was this this. I don't think it's there anymore but in the eighties when I went there in nineteen where I remember <hes> there's this poster I post a framed photo it's Harley race and nick boggling each with their belts and end up about Awa belt and and it's <hes> <unk> Harley signs it <hes> Harley race six time real R. E. A. L. Capital letters exclamation point world champion in Nick Stein's is McLaughlin goal semi real world champion so Harley Yeah Harley took that world title very very seriously <hes> so <hes> wrestler on God's Green Earth that's right greatest restaurant God's Green Earth that was his nickname yeah that he gave himself so they made him the king of the ring and then so then Tennessee see story is Jerry Lawler trademarked the king in Tennessee so they actually had a court fight and Jerry lawler one so in that Karen Win Harley race race worked in that area King Harley race because Jerry Lawler David WanNa thanks so much noon the show. We'll have so much more on Harley race coming up over the next couple of days back in along with more a wrestling observer live hi. It's Jamie Progressive's employee of the month two months in a row leave a message at the Hi Jamie. It's me Jamie. I just had a new idea for our song about the name your price tool so when it's like tell us what you want to pay hey hey and the trombone goes Wah Wah and you say we'll help you find coverage options to fit your budget then Dan we just all do finger snaps while a choir goes savings coming at Ya savings coming at you. Yes no maybe anyway see you practice tonight. I got new lyrics for the rap break progressive casualty with the Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by State Law. Get told baby for the biggest sale of the year up to sixty percent off all back to school styles for kids and baby get flipflops for for two bucks graphic tees for four box shorts for six dollars and jeans for eight dollars right now. Get the best kid styles at kid sized prices just two four six. It's an eight dollars can't wait to wear it. Buy Online pick up in store free today up to sixty percent off all kids and baby styles now old navy and old Navy Dot Com valid seven seven twenty nine hundred eleven select styles excludes in store clearance. Thank you are listening to wrestling observer live with Bryan Alvarez and Mike Semper v on the sports byline broadcasting thing network. The show Brian Elber is here Wrestling Observer Live reveal so of wrestling observer DOT COM lots to get into here today. The death of Harley Race Goldberg smackdown ratings dirty talk about eight four four four eleven five four actually know what can take calls today if you want to text text us four to five seven eight zero seven five six six text messages only today forty five seven eight zero seven five six six a fine text. I just Scott here Brian. You're the best there ever was. Thank you very much actually sweat. I did make that one. I never make him up those funny. This great texts actually says what's dumber Vince trying to take out Harley race or trying to take down on Kurt Angle on an airplane. Answer is simple people like I said this was a great text but it's a stupid question. It's much much dumber to try to attack Harley race because when you're on an airplane with Kurt Angle what happened was they just decided that they were going to have like a a little competition and they were playing around a- and Vince was trying to take down Kurt Angle and clearly he failed and obviously like Kurt snuck in a hurt the guy he's just GonNa win and they'll have a laugh laugh about it in a drink and everything's fine trying to attack Harley race not a game just being very upset that and and going after the guy. I mean you're asking for it. If you end up in the hospital that's on you dude so yes much much much dumber to attack Harley race out of anger then to play a game with Kurt Angle and angle even said that you know he got had a knew what that was with race it was it was it was it was either the elevator of the bathroom and it was the bathroom where he'd spurned him because the star cade yeah. If you look like the original star Kay Promo two or the original program INA Hogan is listed in there against Wa who mcdaniel I think for the southern title or whatever it was they were doing at the time so you know that was November. <hes> that was Thanksgiving is when stark eighty three was an hogan was gone on. I think that rustling at the chase taping which was right in Harley races the heart of the end of U._A.. The heart of Harley races entire wrestling world literally in that he lived in promoted and had a cut there as well to <hes> you know right there only a month later so everything everything was going really fast and Vince was certainly on edge as it started to expand in. He knew it was going to be a big deal in yeah you figure getting Harley race was going to be a massive coup and Vince you know hates being spurned into go after and try to double leg. was I mean it's just one of those insane only wrestling only vince in wrestling type of stories that really is just absolutely nuts. This right here is well what happened manding Sonya's title match during title match was supposed to happen on smackdown. It didn't happen. I mentioned this yesterday. They did AWA dot com exclusive where so who was it. It was <hes> Billy C._k.. Claimed she had puppy fever and just think about how we started this show talking about the legend of Harley race and I'm talking about this Billy K had puppy fever lever so they couldn't wrestle and when they walked off they were being stared down by Mandy Sonia and the Kabuki warriors worse and the plan right now probably it's summer slam is they're going to do a four way with those three teams and Alexa and Nicky Cross so oh that's that's what's going on there. I it's still going to come out with belt aren't they. I hope not I doubt listen. Listen all I know. Is this okay. All I know actually I don't even know I shouldn't even bother seeing the original idea for the match worthy iconex defended the titles was that it was going to be like between thirty seconds and like a minute or something like that so that tells me they probably weren't winning now between now and Summer Slam. I mean when I heard that idea wasn't even a four away so I mean they've already changed the plans but I mean I I suppose they could walk out of it with titles it stupid they need to get the titles in a team. That's GonNa work and can can have good matches and isn't just a gimmick but we'll see the Kabuki warriors need to work with Sonia in Mandy Sonia and Mandy or a big doc future of W._W._e.. I believe that I think given their druthers. They're going to be there for a very long time. They're going to be featured very well if they can come around and be good they even if they don't become enough in the ring it's W._W._e.. But it will help him immensely who better to work with them than than obviously Cari saying who's worked with twelve all of your old in stardom and and the <hes> Of the people to tune in for the first time we're going to be befuddled I think if they do the show like this road to series I watched the one yesterday with Shawn Spears ears and to Lee Blanchard and cody during the contract signing listen if I went up to my wife and I said I'm a show you something okay. Let me know if you're interested in what's to come and I showed her being the elite or I showed her the road to all out okay. She's GonNa be way more into the road to all out then she is being. She's not GonNa have any idea what's going on with being the elite. There's GonNa be a lot of comedy that goes go straight overhead the road to series. It's so simple you can show it to anybody. You can show it to somebody who understands wrestling. You chose somebody who doesn't understand wrestling and they're gonna get what's going on. There's this guy cody. He's training very hard for a match. There's this other Guy Shawn Spears with his slimy manager. They're all there for a contract signing and cody walks in he signed thing and he walks out. It's it's it was the production is spectacular. It's it feels real. They shoot it like it's something that you'd see on E._S._p._N.. Maybe not the contract signing part but the the people looking at the camera talking about being the lawyer and everything like that I mean I think that's going to be more like what you're going to see on the show you're going to see a little bit of Wacky is here and there. They're going to try a lot of different things. That is one thing that I can tell you you for a fact okay. They're not going to go in there and do a bunch of stuff where it's like well. We know that like the smart fans are GonNa like this and what they're gonNA do is. They're going to try a bunch of stuff. Some of the stuff is gonNA work. Oh it's going to work great some of the stuff like the Librarian Marine it's GonNa flop and the whole key is are they going to be able to get rid of the stuff that sucks and push the stuff after this success. I think they're going to do a far better job than W E does because w doesn't care they just do what they want one way or the other. I think the W is going to be a little bit the different in that if the librarian thing doesn't over they ain't going to do it anymore. This sort of that. That's what that's what you can expect to see on the television show some of the stuff you're gonna like and some the stuff you're gonNA hate and that they're just going to be trying things. We'll see what will you do. This is not rocket science. It's to our wrestling show it shouldn't be that damn difficult and all they have to do from being the elite is giving you the best of give you the easiest thing for a non <hes> because not e- Fan or lease what they perceive a non being elite Fan what they would like give them a little bit of that make the rest of it'd be wrestling and everything should really take care of itself. You have enough wacky characters. You have enough things that you need to establish on that. Show with traditional progressing wrestling means at least I it's if they there's no reason and I trust with some of the people that they have there. I am I'm trusting in that. When it comes to the production of this television show I mean I I the thought of it being like being the elite for the whole thing that that's even something that anybody anybody would want or think is a good idea? I mean you could say maybe time has passed me by. I just think it's incredibly stupid and short sighted. I can't and there there are people out there that think the show should be more than anything in with all due respect. That's such a Vince Russo level way to look at things things it really is. I mean if that's what people really want. I at eight W I mean I just I don't know we're we're just not even playing the same game same here. This person says I cut up on smackdown last night. I absolutely loved the story line between Kofi and Randy Orton video package was excellent. Let me say something about me. We hear too because everyone's talking about the road to all out which was excellent W._w._e.. is perfectly capable of doing stuff just as good maybe even better they've got if you look at every single person that they have on each roster like A._W._s.. Has a great great roster but W._B._Z.'s roster you consider like everybody in developmental everybody on the main Rosser everybody they have in the U._k.. Everybody they have under contract. They have the greatest roster and the history of wrestling ever anywhere in the world okay. They have a tremendous production team okay but they don't do that it. You've here let me tell them that. Randy Orton Kofi Kingston thing was awesome and I was doing the filthy show yesterday Friday and I was so excited talk about it. Tom Goes Watch. It sounds like what and the reality is. They do so many generic nothing happening by the numbers boring video packages that he saw that Randy Orton was going to be talk about Kofi Kingston and he just skipped it okay and to be honest. You can't blame the guy right but I watched it. I watched it and it was awesome and and it reminded me of all of the great things that they do on the w network ever watched those W._B._Z.. Twenty four episodes even watched documentaries. They put together on the W network. They're phenomenal and I always hear from people in W._W._e.. And they're you you know they understand the problems and deputy okay some of them. You think we're negative about me. I mean you should talk some of the people that actually work there but anyway the point of this is like there are people there who who you know they they are me they work for me and they want me to succeed and there's part of the the deal with A._W._S.. Or they're like man. I can't believe that like you know people are into this or whatever Blah Blah Blah and they they point out like all of this great thing on these great things that produces and you're right but all that stuff is on the W._b.. Network it's almost never in the body of the show and most people are only watching Rau- or smackdown and a small number of those people to watch Ron smackdown watch annex t they don't even know the stuff exists like this stuff that you guys can do needs to be done on raw and smackdown and let me tell you something if aid w kind of starts to take off utilizing this stuff like all I can hope is it w Egos Dude. We need to put some of this stuff that we do on TV. Then we're talking about something then we're talking about competition making everybody better but if you leave this stuff on the network and just have a bunch of boxes falling on Roman reigns with eighty-five light camera cuts on smackdown things ain't going to get better back in a moment of silver life they get to old navy for the biggest sale of the year up to sixty percent off all back to school styles for kids and baby get flipflops for two bucks graphic tees for four bucks shorts awards for six dollars and jeans free dollars right now. Get the best kid styles at kid sized prices. Just two four six eight dollars can't wait to wear it by online and pick up in store free today up to sixty percent off all kids and baby styles now at old navy and old Navy Dot Com valid seven twenty nine hundred eleven select styles excludes in store clearance get to old baby for the biggest sale of the year up to sixty percent off all back to school styles for kids and baby get flipflops for two bucks graphic tees for four Reebok's shorts for six dollars and jeans free dollars right now. Get the best kids styles at kid sized prices. Just two four six eight dollars can't wait to where it by online and pick up in store free today up to sixty percent off all kids and baby styles now at old navy and old Navy Dot Com valid seven twenty nine hundred eleven select styles excludes in store clearance. You're listening to wrestling observer live with Bryan Alvarez and Mike Semper v on the Sports Bylined Broadcasting Network Show Brian Elber is year Wrestling Observer Live makes him proverbial wrestling observer DOT COM is personnel here says cody said on busted open radio that he wants to serve the hardcore Awa fans before worrying about attracting new casual fans. We'll see what happens when they run. Television Cody says a lot doesn't it yes they they will be attracting. They will be doing what they can to attract new casual fans. They will not be doing being the lead on T._N._T.. Also said they were going to have amid south in a sporting fields. So cody is going to say a lot in the lead up to this show so maybe maybe and I don't know if anybody knows this. The son of Dusty Rhodes boots a lot of things too. Let's just take a couple of things with a grain of salt and just see what's put on that screen because that's all it's going to matter at the end of the day no matter what they say about anything anything person says you think they should have waited until the first smackdown on Fox for dull versus Goldberg. Well listen like I said I don't. I don't think this is the last thing to see if Goldberg. I don't think he's decided like I'm GonNa do one match to redeem myself for the undertaker match and I'm done like if you're Bill Goldberg and you're being offered third and I'm not going to say if you're being offered a lot of money to like show up looking like Goldberg and Squash Dude in Old Goldberg W._C._W.. Squash match like why wouldn't you do this forever long as you can. There could be another name maybe that he's going to destroy them smackdown. I mean he's got two who wants to get ready after he destroys ziglar so maybe they'll be a bigger naming distance to. I don't know I don't know what they have planned but this is what they wanted to do for summer slam so this is what they're gonNa do in what had time everybody back tomorrow with more one. Mike is always callers listeners every the studio talking next time wrestling observer live of course the Lexus Golden Opportunity sales event is about exceptional offers but it's also about the luxury of versatility with space for the unexpected and the freedom freedom of a summer day all coming together for you at the perfect moment. Don't miss your perfect moment to experience exceptional offers on a full line of Lexus utility vehicles now until September third experience amazing at your Lexus Dealer Hi. It's Jamie me progressive's employee of the month two months in a row leave a message at the Hi Jamie. It's me Jamie. I just had a new idea for our song about the name your price tool so when it's like tell us what you want want to pay hey hey hey and the trombone goes Wah and you say we'll help you find coverage options to fit your budget. Then we just all do

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50 Years of NWA Champion Dory Funk Jr - LIVE

Talk Is Jericho

1:12:11 hr | 1 year ago

50 Years of NWA Champion Dory Funk Jr - LIVE

"The chair co network on Westwood One. For me. Join me in the Fridley on gate to the race. He is be longest reigning and w way world heavyweight champion. He has been in Fokker three major territory, and he had environment in the phrase. Wrestling journal ball time goes after still own paradise knowledge that fairly wasn't to this of this man's alost career paying the gentleman. Girls was your hands together. He was. We all lost WC. Federated. One of the reasons we all in all as wrestling. Restored. Down with this. Jericho has wave be world viewers, very. In the honor. I you. Recall. Recall. Ricco? Welcome to talk is Jericho does the pot of thunder and rock and roll. And today, we've got the legendary deputy hall of Famer and NWEA champion Dory. Funk junior live. I went to his Bank TV studios in Ocala, Florida where he runs the funk in conservatory wrestling school and did a live podcast in front of his countrymen students fans local people who just wanted to come hang out with us. We had a great time as you here we covered his career from his first wrestling match ever in the early sixties to working one of honor the giants last matches to tagging with his brother, Terry all their great matches against the Briscoes. We talk about Dory's travel to work in Japan with baba and Unoki eventually went to all Japan when the company split, of course, we're talking about the WB was like from working for Vince McMahon. As Hoss folk it's the fiftieth anniversary this week of Dory. Funk winning NWEA championship for the very first time way back in February of. Hundred sixty nine and here, we are bringing you Dory folk junior live talk is Jericho starting now. Guys. I love the fact that the dude here's been rested with thirty years and he's holding the ropes down. There have been in the ring before. They get figure it out a hell of an introduction, man. Jeez. Louise, can you just follow me around and say that wherever I go. Thank you. Okay. Shut up. All right. So. Here we are in Ocala Florida at bang arena. I guess you call it. And I've been doing talk is Jericho for about five years and one of the guests of wanted to have on for a long time as Dory. Funk junior. Yeah. Dory funk, right. Interrupt. Just a second. I'm proud to be here myself. But look at the superstar that we've got here. Chris jericho? He's a superstar Japan. He's a superstar in the United States of America. He's a musician. He's an artist he's a fabulous personality. And we are extremely proud to have you here on Bank TV and Ocala Florida. Yes. I appreciate it. Once again, you guys obviously see Dory quite a bit because you live in Ocala. But you have to stand the legendary status that Dory has all the different things that you've done. In fact, you're still wrestling. And I love the the addition of the bull whip. Now that you that you're using use it tonight. So using it in Japan, I'm feeling it's kind of name as the name. We'd percenter. Offer. So you're using whippersnapper. And it's I'm I'm visiting that you used to use this when you were a kid on the farm in Texas. That is true. What would you use a bullet for actually I would it wasn't bowl with? I had made a a whip out a clothesline. But actually what I do because I was cracked the whip and cut paper out of my neighbors mouth against. Yes. That's why I handled the win just something to do on a Saturday night or. How is even younger? I was like ten or twelve years old while. Yeah. Because you did you did you grow up actually on a farm in Morello flan Mirant. So it was a ranch then yes, it's outside of Merill. I'm Wagner, Texas. Beautiful place, fabulous duck and goose hunting. It was just a place that you can learn about life as you grew up. Now, your dad was the wrestling as well. My father's been wrestling since I was. He's been wrestling professional since I was five years old. So you grew up in the business. I grew up in. Yes, I had to get into Wrangham practice amateur wrestling when I was seven years old. And I I wanted to be all fishing, and my father would send kids after me to give me say come on down. We got a fractious wrestling amateur wrestling at the time at seven seven. Yes. Because that's how it was a lot more now. And we'll talk about this later, how the business it's a lot more accessible now a lot easier to kind of get into it. But when you're talking about coming in the business in the sixties, it was much more of a closed society and imagine getting into it, especially if you're father wasn't in. It was very difficult. He'll was it was different than it is today much different. And the one thing that affected my life is in w world champion is there were thirty separate. Territories each with thirty wrestlers each making a good living for their family. And we might think that is not much for a referee to go around and earn four hundred dollars a week. But if you put the inflation calculator on our referees in Amrullah, Texas were clearing two three thousand dollars. It's just the difference in value Hershey bar used to be a nickel. I just paid the puck thirty for her. She. But but, but when you're talking about getting into the business was it was it was a lot harder. Like, what was kind of the the the path that you had to go through to actually get started wrestling. It just depends on where you came from. But. The amyloid area, Texas he had to have some amateur wrestling background in. I've got a thank my father for insisting that I learned to wrestle as I went through high school. I was west Texas, a amateurism Teague, but that's a big amateur wrestling school. Correct. That's quite famous for for for Russell fixes. Yeah. This more famous for football from Canada. So there you go. I was famous for something. Yeah. West Texas was famous for football. We actually went down and played in the sun bowl, and we beat Ohio University fifteen to fourteen and my father was a promoter of wrestling. So he had a contract waiting for me when the aircraft landed back in Amarillo, and I signed contract to be a professional wrestler on the wheels of TWA for engineering. So it was kind of your your your destiny almost if you grow up with your dad is the promoter, and was did you want to do it or whatever you kind of more thinking about being a pro football player. I was thinking about pro football. But my father came me the way to become a professional wrestler my first year in the business, kind of sounds strange ironed sixteen thousand dollars doesn't sound like much at all. But that was making mantle sound celery. Wow. For the New York Yankees the same year nineteen sixty three you made sixteen thousand dollars in nineteen sixty three. Yes, that's huge. Then I mean, that's gotta be it doesn't sound. But it is. But like you said with the inflation calculator, and that's got to be five hundred thousand dollars four hundred around there. Yeah. Wow. So you're territories was the territory was that hot at the time. Not only the emerald territory. But thirty territories across the United States Canada. There were five territories in Canada. Right. You know, you earn? Exactly. Yes, stampede. Yeah. State peed. Wrestling, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Hawaii Australia through a lot of places to work in those days where you working on top in Amarillo. My father was a promoter. Typical right here. First year first year, I in the privilege of having the people the Newham that came in to work with me and Amrullah Texas Luther as that O'Connor Sonny Myers who I know. You'll know, but others may not it was real. It was a challenge. But at the same time, it was such an opportunity for John is another one, and what a group of guys to learn from out of those guys that you're talking about. I mean, those are some of the greatest of all time of a are ever. Yes. Right. Where they give you vice or were they willing to help you out a bit or where my father didn't have Karaj for cars. He had two car garages attached house, but it had a wrestling mat on the floor, and our cars, we didn't care where we park them. Wrestling practice in the garage, and he had wrestlers like Ruffy Silverstein Vern ganja, Bob geigo, those are really big names in amateur wrestling, and they came in and they trained with me they worked out with me, and I can still remember, you know. The lessons. They taught me. Bob geigo. He looked at me says I'm gonna tell you I'm gonna get your right lane. And then I'm gonna do it. Just made a move on bombed, ideally, grabbed my arm. He pulled it down at blocked with my leg. And he had my leg picked it up. And I was on the ground, but I had some great athletes. Great amateur wrestlers and great professional wrestlers to learn from especially in my first year. Do you? Remember your first match down Fargo. Yes, never forget it. Tell us about that. Were you nervous? I was a bit nervous. I had. An all American from west Texas university, Jerry, Logan. He was running back. He was my second. Dan Fargo Ed is brother for second the whole west Texas football team. Was on one side and the whole test Costa high? I'm interesting team was on the other side. And I was very very to tell the truth. Very nervous going somebody going up against somebody like down Fargo. And fortunately, I came out with win on a match, and it was just a start of career that opportunities for football. But I never looked back. I stayed with professional wrestling all the way, it didn't take long for Dory to become into be champion. And I wanna get into that story. I if you guys listening or sick and tired of paying high interest rates in credit cards, and you wanna consolidate your payments down to one payment at a lower rate than you. Gotta check out light stream. I love that name light streams credit card consolidation loan is a no brainer, and it's really geared towards people with good credit who are paying super high interest rates to the credit card companies. I mean, most of those rates are ridiculous in the neighborhood of. Twenty percent. I mean, come on. If you've got more than one credit card like most of us, do then you're paying that interest rate for all of them. That's why you need to check out light stream you can consolidate all the payments for rate as low as six point one four percent with auto pay the rate is fixed. So it never goes up, and there are zero fees, no fees, how many fees zero you can even get your money as soon as the day, you apply late stream rewards people with good credit with a low rate and an easy process. And light stream is hooking up talk as Jericho listeners, all of these sexy beasts with an additional interest rate discount. The only way to get this discount is to go to late stream dot com slash Jericho. That's light stream dot com slash Jericho. Going to spell it for you. L I S T R E A, M dot com slash Jericho. Subject to credit approval rate. Includes point five percent auto pay discount. Terms and conditions apply. Offers are subject to change without notice. A wanted to visit lights dream dot com slash Jericho. For more information. Save money. Get those interest rates downtown to Chinatown get them low. How low can you go? Find out lights dream dot com slash Jericho. Save money on all your credit card debts. Go do it. Now. How long was it until he became envy champion at sixty sixty nine seventy February nineteen sixty nine. So that's very early. You've been working for six years, obviously, or naturally must've taken into very well. But explained. Because in this day and age, it's so hard to comprehend. Explain the process of how you became the NBA champion and all the different polit political allies that you had to have to get it. How did I do spinning doll gene escape, and I knew it was going to happen when he tapped out. But I mean the opportunity to get there though. Because back in the days you had all the territories. That would have to kind of decide who they wanted to be in that position or who would get the chance to be in that position the chance. Right. Right. Right. But so are they having a meeting with my father was a member of the board of directors of national wrestling? And from from the time, I started he said, you really need to make the appearances in the major cities Saint Louis became frequent relief. It was a hotbed. There was a hot end for professional wrestling, Los Angeles was the Florida territory was in any Graham was featuring a lot of really great wrestlers down here in Florida. So my father saw that to that I traveled all those different places. Jim Crockett in North Carolina. Fabulous place to work, Nick gurus in Tennessee. And I'll tell you story by nNcholas little later. They're all these different places with groups of forty wrestlers making a good living. And in w world champion was the highest level. You can be at at that time. The all the guys all the territories when you became champion, then it was your responsibility that you said to go from place to place to place and work with the local whoever the top guy was in that territory if they were on like Johnny Valentine while McDaniel Billy Robinson. Really tremendous athletes having the opportunity to work with these guys. I just learned learned and learned as I went through and the other thing that you've got to know about being a champion, the important thing is that the next time you come back, you draw big house, and that's something that you've learned. And I know you and I. When things in different ways. The judgment of your work in the ring is the box office attraction. Yeah, he come. And you've done a fabulous job of that. And but that's the truth. Like, you said if you weren't drawing as the champion finds somebody would be a good thing. So you mentioned so many classic names from Waku to to to Valentine who are some of the guys that you learned from the most and had the best matches with out of that timeframe. I've learned a lot from Billy Robinson. The thing is specially learned is. Forms mass, right. And he was British and that's a British style. Wrestling moving the European uppercuts. The European Epoca? Yes. I learned from trying to learn from everybody wrestled. I went to Tennessee. I the opportunity was there for me. Everybody knew I was going to show up. So I showed up late. Nine o'clock for showing Tennessee one night, and I walked in address room. And I said whom I work with. And thrash looked at me and the promoter, and you said you're s. Whitey over there. Why do you call will? And I looked at Whitey call. Well, and he was about one hundred and seventy pounds. These guys gotta be ribbon me a market with. So I figured well. I can take the rib just as well as any anybody else. So I waited and I waited and time came to the ring I went through the ring not even knowing him, my heart. I was working with and why you call came walking. This guy him I thought that. But he he was a heck of a kid, and we worked return we came back. A month later, Andrew Bessie house. And there was this. What being champion was all about. What can you do for the promotion? What do you do for your opponent? And what can you do for the wrestling fans? And that's a lot of responsibility to like, you said to be to be the champion, and you go to Tennessee, for example. And it's what he called. Well, who might not be as good as you go to Florida and his Jack Brisco, but it's your job to make all the matches great, everyone responsibility. That's the responsibility. The reason I was there for four and a half years instead of a very short, right. They knew they count on each always deliver tomorrow, we always box office attraction the next time. When you come back. Let's talk about one of your most famous opponents as far as rivals goes, you mentioned Jack Brisco, and it's interesting when you watch fun Briscoe matches now in two thousand nineteen if you don't understand how wrestling works. You might watch and go. Wow. This is a long match, and there's not not that. There was a lot of action, but it's very slow paced. But they're also very genius put together. But you if you're like a wrestling fan who I don't know new Japan or Debbie now, you might watch one of those matches and not understand the brilliance of that I used to love to go in ring as in w champion incognito. Kind of just kind of slips down. Onto the rain. Get in a ring give my introduction. Take my jacket off put in the corner, and Jack Brisco is on the other side. And just take my time walk around and rang with him a little bit tie up with him. He was fabulous with the armed dragged one arm dragging pops people, but you'd try to I'd try to even quiet them down. So the match with Jack Brisco was like a dream. He was he was so good. The only thing he had a he had a little thing that. His hair was starting to fall out. And if I ever if I ever grabbed him and messed up his air. Dammit, folks, stay out of my hair. You didn't have to worry about it. Do that to, you know, not not was gone. Anyhow. Here was gone when you started. But that's interesting. Still got these. When I call them too. So how you guys were going long periods of time. Do you Jack Brisco not just for sixty minutes? But it would be like seventy minutes eighty minutes. We did we did ninety minutes. My gosh. What is what's the cycle? I've never rustled ninety minutes. I mean, maybe forty five at one point. But what's the psychology for that? How do you keep the people involved in a sixty minute eighty minute ninety minute match to believe in what they're seeing? Some people call it suspension suspension of disbelief. But for that moment for that time that they're there. Those people are in. It was the NWEA world championship that we had to work with to make people believe in what we were doing. The belt meant so much. The world champion hate to say this made so much money that there was so much attraction to the NWEA world heavyweight championship that the people the wrestling fans for the moment for the time. Actually believed in what we were doing. And sometimes I believe in what we were doing and sometimes I know Jacqueline, especially after I must have there. Or stiff them with a European. But then you just hit on some of this very interesting because it's not like this. Now how much how much the belt meant true, right? And how much money you would make the champion. So I'm sure when you become the enemy champion everybody's gunning to take you out of that position. Vets the story and all thirty. Territories. Everybody wants that chance. Right. Yes. Was there a lot of politics at that point in time with other people's father's a saying von Erich trying to get his son not as long as a box office sales were there. Gotcha. There was not. There was family pressure on me. It was very very difficult. But fortunately for for what I was able to make I've got three kids right now that are through teachers one is doctor and all came through education and things through professional wrestling. Right. That I was able to provide them the opportunity how many days a year where you on the road as champion three hundred matches at least maybe more and something that a lot of people don't realize this day and age is that two of the biggest days of the year for wrestling back then. Yes, Christmas entrance, right? Family times or in those parts of the year. No, I didn't. And that's one of the things that really caused me family. Trouble is having to be away on Christmas. And. Just become became more than I can handle a lot of guys like flared. We'll talk about that Brunel head Brunel on his Jericho. He said the same shirt just everybody wants this opportunity. Then once you get it you like, I can't take it anymore. You know, where you were you ready when it was when you lost the title, nor my ex wife's that I can't take it anymore. And suddenly you lost. Very strange, and you did you lose it to Harley was early that you lost the two. Yes. Gotcha. And. Would you have a rematch with him? Once you lose a series of matches tell us that you lost the time. Title. There's a pickup truck accident that's involved in this two story tell tell so that there's a little bit of controversy about that. Isn't why was scheduled to wrestle Jack Brisco and I had a pickup truck accident. We were moving cattle from across my father's rants down to the creep through it chasing kennel. And I ran a pickup truck right off into the creek and into the steering wheel messed up. My forehand missed of my neck. So I had to cancel out of a match with Jack Brisco, and they were scheduled for Houston, Texas, and nobody knew I was going to. Wind up in a car accident. But I did so that caused problems that I didn't show up in Houston to face, Jack, Brisco and everything was held up. I was unable to wrestling till I went back into rain, and that was scheduled highly rice. And that's where drops the end of the world heavyweight championship to Harley were there. People behind the scenes, we're talking about thirty promoters, thirty companies thought that you worked the drug accidents. Title. You know? I can't change those thirty promoters minds. Joel gone now and everything is new and everything is different. I've had the privilege of traveling and working like you have in Japan and head. I want wanna be sound like I'm bragging, but had huge success success as you know, yourself to. But it was a matter of figuring out a working style that the Japanese people believed in and it was very very hard. Because you go in the ring, and you do your best, and you know, there's total silence. I want you have to realize what I realized right here. The silence is because people are listening. Isn't that because they're disinterested? Yeah. When I go to Japan, and you go to the ring remember thinking my first one ninety one and thinking like do I sunk? Yes. This must be terrible. But then you realize rare watching studying listening appreciating what you're doing there watching every move. And I realized that some of the people I were there as professional wrestlers on the same tours didn't realize and quieter, the people got the more than parents more. They'd rake your is the more they'd reach a bull out again. And they only got total. Silence. LA? Have you have to understand it? We'll be talking about this earlier about how many times you've been to Japan. How many times do you think you've gone Haiti times, which is so incredible? Because I'm sixty and someone said to me, do you think you're the guy is the most trips that have any Dory's? Maybe Hanson butcher. But to go that many times, you gotta be good. You know, because like you said those fans they're not going to settle for a sub par performer worker some they don't believe in. They're not going to settle for that anywhere. These old right? Right to get invited back to Japan that many times over would you first tour that you did Japan sixty nine that's fifty years ago. Fifty years of Japan. Can remember the matches was and Joni Lee Nokia, very famous wrestler over there giant baba? Seiji second hoochie. Maybe I know, you know. Yeah. Sure. When you first learned sixty nine what was the company called was. It was Jeff Han pro wrestling and Inoki and baba fame company. Yes. You go there in each had an individual television station. He no key at his television station. Bob ahead. His television station, you're sitting in the dressing room. Yes. Individual contracts. Yes. And somebody who coming over and say, what can you do for Nokia, you don't whom he'd run out? And then someone else had come over and say, what can you do for Mr. baba? And as you went into ring you had to balance your performance with those two guys because they were both superstars both had their own television contracts. There was a it was a pressurized situation. You mean, they could no he's matches. We're on one station. Yes. Matches wanna? Yes. Really? Yes. So you worked with both of them both of them on the same tour tight t mash with both of them while this opens up. A whole other. So tell me the differences was who was the style that he would work with baba any gnocchi who do you think was battered like comparisons? There's no way you're going to get me to say who's been don't say that sorry, let's rephrase Japan. The differences in working because baba and an Okie wash huge huge stars. But different different. Yes. He no. He was wrestling action. The wrestling fans loved it baba was strong style. In wrestling fans. Loved him. They were split right down the middle. But you had to be prepared to the baba was going to hit you beg chops. The big foot. He no he was gonna scoop your legs and trying to take you off your feet. Working shooting. You know, saying goes he goes together. And that's that was very much Japanese style. Even when I first went there like I said in the early nineties, it was a war shoot you were fighting. You're fighting the fight for what you gone, you're right. It's changed then it'd be like, okay. Suplex me and my handle books you and your head. But you face, and that's basically what it was like so doors gonna tell us it was like travelling back and forth Japan in nineteen sixty nine. I mean, propeller planes and how they even do that. He's also going to what it was like working one of the last matches with Andre the giant before he passed away. But I I wouldn't be doing this show at all if not for one of talk, Jerry awesome sponsors O'Reilly auto parts. Now when it gets cold out there. Your vehicle needs some extra tension. O'reilly auto parts, everything you need to keep your vehicle toasty warm. From choosing the right antifreeze for your engine or replace in your windshield. Wiper blades O'Reilly is going to help you get your car or truck in fighting shape for the cold weather ahead. O'reilly auto parts, better parts, better prices every day. Question about Japan in nineteen sixty nine now, there's lay down seeds and movies and all this. How what was the leg on a plane fifty hours back then we have stop in Hawaii. We couldn't really couldn't go director, okay from Japan. But I did I enjoyed that too. Because I would book my flight, so I could fly from Japan to Hawaii get there in the morning, go out to the beach sun and surf come back in the same Renna cart. Go to the airport jump on the flight and complete my trip back home to the United States layover. Hawaii was a nice layover. Yeah. Japan was also very much a tag team company a lot of ways, especially when you went to all Japan. Let me ask you this. What was your decision that when when Japan promotions split oak, he starts new Japan? Baba starts all Japan. How did you decide which company to go to? My father became Booker for all Japan, and there were several people in running, but the military joy had received several Japanese wrestlers from all Japan, and it was like Fritz fun fun going to get the Booker or joint funk senior. And it was very very close presents were exchanged for my father funk senior got the nod for booking for all Japan. Pro wrestling. Boogieing the foreigners book the entire territory of foreigners forms has obviously becomes a very Amarillo. Heavy. Yes. Yes. It did. Yes. Who's going over there? Besides you at the time, Paul Ramose, Vinnie hud's. We didn't try to restrict it to Amrullah territory seeing restaurants from all over the United States. Eventually, Jack Brisco, actually, I wrestle Jack Brisco in Japan. It was the emerald Charito wrestlers when you started doing like the tactic tournaments that sort of thing always butcher and handsome where the big team, and it was the free student. San handsome, the first time to stand has. Guy here. But before he before he made the trip he had a little run in with my brother, Terry funk, pushed him in the swimming pool, then went through hotel room. His STAN Hansen was scheduled to go to Japan we had lined him up. And he was banging on Terry's door Jerry wouldn't open the door. So staying kicked him glass door on the bottom. And when he brought his foot out it slices accused, Tim mole. Oh. Oh, so stand in have the opportunity to go to Japan for year because achilles tendon is. I don't think it cut it all the way into. But it did today did the damage the kept stand out for year. You mentioned your brother, Terry innocence. You guys are famous tag team knowledge opinion, the only brother two brothers that had the enemy championship. You guys were growing up you fight each other law, but the relationship as kids I was the boss. Older, right? Three three three and a half that might as well be a lifetime. When you're fifteen and twelve right? Oh, yeah. Or nine and six. Got to be weighed. He was seventeen I was twenty. I kind of back off. But what a great combination. Did you joy tagging with with your brother? I enjoyed because I was able to work totally different style. He did. And he had the same freedom. He could be the wild and crazy guy that he is in the people responded to what I had to sell them. And they responded to what he had to sell them. And he was a great tag team partner, and we took care of each other. That's a great point. Because there is, you know, do different folks your brothers different much more technical hard hitting terriers a little bit more wacky. But it would have been a bit boring. When it if absolute both of us were doing the same thing. Right, right. Totally totally. I think that's one of the reasons why both the were. So did so well the business because you did have completely different styles. So when they put when they give Terry the opportunity to be the champion. It's not like, it's dorey junior junior. It's a completely different guy. Totally different. Yeah. Yes. Were you proud of him when he became the champ. I was part of him becoming. How story actually I was on the board of directors? Theme here. Those dan. This was after my father passed away. And I became a member of the board of directors and Fritz von Erich was president. There was a lot of influence going for Harley race, and I made a talk from my brother, Jerry funk, and there was something that maybe eat for a long time. But I made the comment to board of directors that they should know if they voted for funk, they would have somebody with a college education as in w world champion that was hard to say it was hard to do. But it made the change. They wanted to have the prestige of having a guy who is not a leap Braun, but also had some brains. Yes, interesting. I still love this concept of like these secret now didn't say my brother, graduated from Kyle. He bought the on the street. Everybody else. But I said he had a college education not that. He graduated. Classic wrestling, right. Classic almost told the truth. Did you ever have a match against Terry? I did actually it's on. Video and. Orissa Lynn for fifty fifty five minutes and finally caught him with a schoolboy roll up onto three I won the only match my brain, right? That. I'm still paying for. Older brother again. Was that in Japan? No. He was over here. Who are some of the teams that you love working with in all Japan, Jumbotron has a single and he in Baba's tag team. They were really good Hanson Brody. How was it working with them? Truth. Watch out for the clues one. For me. Because bruiser wasn't bruiser wasn't easy. He wasn't. He wasn't easy either. Yeah. Yeah. Proser Brody and STAN Hansen. Where's tough as you get to work with his fight for your life and stay in there? And then that's their style. Though. You have lesser style. Yes. Expect it. Yes. What about like when you're outside of the ring when you guys are hanging out doing these three week four week six week tours was guys some good times having some drinks, and that sort of thing. Yeah. I could drink in twenty years ago because of that. No. Oh, heck I used to get up Senate Marty if she would walk in liquor store and come out with any less than three bottles of wine. It's a good night out. But we're we're Japanese people kinda scared. You guys when you're walking down the street of Tokyo at that point in time. Hi, I found the people very good to mingle with and part of it's because I've worked very hard to pick up their language, and I can speak from rang in Japanese, and I have slogans that I like to use near the progress fan mean Osama and not to know to Kaixi and won't go to me. We got design mice. Which means thank you all in a means of here to thank you all the wrestling fans for the warm support that they give. But when I first started going over there. I went one year ninety five I went every month. And I was really. Yeah. And I was not being able to to communicate and it was very hard to learn Japanese. So I learned how to read it. We're going to congress and blot of Japanese people said, that's Dory. Funk. Did you like Dory? Funk you Abril. Yeah. You respect the culture and people I think really appreciate when you try as a foreign guys again language to learn to learn to speak in but to read it was a little bit easier for me because if you talk about the characters are similar to our letters just one or two lines rather than those intricate art form that they have and five language. Yeah. Yeah. I've languages right here. Agawam catcher count on. Kanji kanji. Yeah. And the other one. Difficult language, the fans appreciate that. They'll like they said the fact that you could speak or read a little bit of it. They really knew you were going the extra mile do very much. Let's talk about where I drained up in Calgary with Stu hard. I know I was going to tell you, please. I haven't heard the reputation of to heart. The dungeon down below in the basement where he took all wrestlers stretched out me cross, face them and bloodied. Him up. Those were the rumors that came out of Calgary. So sure enough. I was champion. I worked through his Taylor joy was invited to his house dinner beautiful dinner long long table. He has twelve children. And we're all sitting at the table, and then dinners over and the oldest kid came to me and said. Would you like to come down to the basement and train? I know I deal what? But I gotta say I went down to the basement with them trained with the kids. Talk to him worked with him. Just like I do here. We'll talk cans and was treated with total respect he was a big fan years, Stu appreciated the guys the shoot background, right? Who liked guys can wrestle? Yeah. So he would do every year the stampede which is July the stampedes big festival affair that comes to Calgary. And it'd be the big stampede wrestling show, and he would bring in the champion, which I remember seeing pictures of you in the parade and all that sort of stuff. Sure. Yeah. Did you work with Doug gun, Stu Hart? Dillard, again hit heard before ever got to Calgary. You know? He always breaks down his truck in the parade and the whole parade stops. I never heard that. I just heard it right now. But does this apprise me talking about the big parade? Everyone's driving their floats. And yes, we rake down his truck. Well, Billy Robinson. I were in a convertible behind Stu Hart's truck. And sure enough we got halfway through the parade and the tire tread came started coming off the tires and it snapped popped off in the middle of the parade. The whole truck turned sideways block the whole parade. Fifteen minutes. Billy robinson. I got out of the car and walked the rest of it. You've heard about student parade for sure. Well, yeah, I've said I've seen pictures of you in the parade. I didn't know that the cargo damn that is because he had fifteen Cadillacs in the front part front porch of his house and the yard some of them worked some more. I'm doing a piece of this one part of that one sticking together and go for like, I saw Stu Hart shut the door on the trunk lock himself on our on our Cadillac locked himself in and had to roll down window and come out of the Cadillac fi first cowboy boots for. Did you work getting this wrong? Did you work with Andrei? It's some point in Calgary or that didn't happen. Maybe Andrea not in Kilger. Did you work with Audrey though? Oh, yes. I've worked rebound. Let's talk about that. I'm very close to having had Andrey's last man's really which was six main tag. And we were in Japan and hundred had one more Mets scheduled, but was the non-televised mansion. And then he left and went home and his health was not good at that time. Japanese young boys would gather around threat slurs young boys wrestlers, and and they actually had to help him to rain at the time. And it was very sad situation to watch Andrey at the end of his career in because early in his career. He was as tough as anybody in walk into rang with. But we have that last match was a six man tag. He had one more match went home. It was passed away. That was did you work with them earlier in his career? Yes. What's what's the psychology? How do you work with Andre the giant in nineteen eighty two when he's at his peak? He making a million dollars. Yeah. You just run and bounce off type thing or. You know, I keep them my personality. I tried to do different. Wrestling and strong things. He can do you can have a wrestling match with Andrei at least in those days, you could and that's stuck with the wrestling. Just because it's my style. I can't change my style and become Andre the giant or become Jovi. Gimmick man at falls all over. So I gotta stay with wrestling. That's interesting something that you'd mentioned that you have your training center here, and you've been training wrestlers for years and psychology people ask me, how do you? How do you learn psychology, and how it's very hard to learn it you have to just get it. It's got to be natural. Germs on one day. But how do you do that? How do you tell students or people that ask what's what's your theory on the psychology of wrestling? I talked to him in turn blue. Would you tell them these? You gotta listen to the people. First comes the wrestling fans. And sometimes they're quiet, but you still gotta listen to them are they buying what you're doing. And you can't just go back and forth back and forth and up and down and fly. You lose interest in vans. You've gotta make each move count. We'd been doing drills with Brian couple of days ago. But it can't be a headlock armlock a schoolboy another headlock fireman's carry an arm drag people will get disinterested. It's gotta have a story to it. And that's the hard part about learning professional wrestling fans have got to become involved. They've got to pick a side. So how this guys had a rough time. I want to see him do something. Is not not an easy thing. To learn. It's probably easy as we've been working on these two technical moves or easy. Anybody? Can learn anybody can do them. Yeah. Most anybody can develop a few spectacular moves that really look good. And all our kids have been with us have been able to do that. But putting together in a logical point of view for the wrestling fans. Takes a long time. You have to be able to connect with the fans. Correct. That's the most important thing that I find that could be. A different than I do the different styles. Right styles. Yes. Yeah. You doing the same thing. But it's totally different. The different flavors. Right. Yeah. Who different? It's funny though. I saw you take a Frankenstein or off the top rope from rob van dam in about nineteen ninety five or six. So you're probably sixty years old sixty two years old. You still understood that to stay relevant you needed to do some of these figures the other way, I gave rough damn I think I gave him a Frankenstein. The best part is your I know any you had didn't even come up. I remember the man I know what he did. He hook the top row his feet. I pulled him. And I pulled pulled hard back into the middle of the ring. I gave him the Franken searching, you did give them the Frankenstein a rice. Yes, I knew there was something like that. Yes. That's what the hell. Are you doing give it a Frankenstein or for? This is true. I think you saw Terry the moon soul and said I got up do one up. Van Damme's words. Would you say if you wanna use the move to right? Trump me on the head. Did you ever watch drug RV d- what we've jobs lands on his head all the time? Rubber neck? I wanted to ask you something. I vaguely remember this. So I did three seconds of research three. And I remember this. So when I first started watching WWE, which was eighty six and you were there, you were Hoss funk. Right. That's right. So yes, how did you end up working for Vince? And what was that like at that point in time? To to work prevents game. It was a phone call from my brother and Vince is going to call. You Terry was already here and the opportunity came to go up and shoot an angle between my brother and myself. And I don't remember who the other two guys were. But. We did got over. It was successful. And my brother headed -mergency at home and had to leave. And with that I had to have a partner in. Fig Jimmy Jack funk who was Jesse Jesse bar, right? Yes. Sandy bars. Son. Why did let me go back a little bit? First of all, why did Vince change your name to Hoss? Funk wasn't really changing my name. Because when I was playing football called me Haas. Gotcha. Why would I think I think for? Publicity that have a different name. Lines. Name was. Football players used to call me Hoss whose natural. What did you think we mentioned earlier about the thirty different promotions? And all the different places, you could go what did you think? When Vince started taking over each in teach territory, try and go completely national. I believed in the territories. And it wasn't aware of how strong national television could be in. Vince, put out a great deal and the local territories Vince was so strong with the television. The network than smaller shows can compete with him. And. I used to Crockett's territory, I'm relatively Florida territory, the venue that we did our television in was different than this. No bigger. But the video the Vince McMahon did his television shows in. Where you mum this thousands and thousands of people and network television. So Vince is network overran everything. Now, new promotions are coming up. You know, new promotions are getting competitive television time because there's a flood of television stations out there. Now that wasn't the case when Vince was strongest when Vince McMahon was at a strong as he had control of the television address, the United States of America. For them. More and more people are getting television than goes nationwide. Japan. Same thing in this country. Right, right. Your company that you just signed w probably going going across the nation. Strong philip. It's interesting. We were talking with the territories now, it's like the territories are coming back on national TV. Now that everybody can get television. Right, Jerry, Troy's they're coming back. That's what I mean. Because you've got Debbie. You got eight w got new Japan, you got impact yet ring of honor. Emily w all have national television all different wrestling companies, and they all need talent. Because there's only a certain amount of guys out there. That is true. There are only a certain amount of guys. And there are only a certain amount of guys that can really get the job done. And we're proud of our kids that we have here. Some of them are on vacation some of them you sane, but they can really get the job, and we are a training facility and in the market to train wrestlers, but you have quite a pedigree of guys that you trained because I know you used to do the funky DOJ Ohs up in Stafford is what events. Yes. So tell some of the guys that you trained up their test Christian. Marquette Mary who we may be saying Mark Henry coming up soon. Who was Kurt angle angle while edge. Lita? Mickey james. I mean, that's those are all super superstars. They all came through. Chris hero. Wow. They all came through the W w he funky. Don't Joe when you saw Kurt angle when he first started because he was a natural right off the bat. And also, obviously knew a little about amateur wrestling as well one of frigging gold medal. What did you think of him as a protege right off the bat? First thing told him, I said card, you can do anything in professional wrestling that you did name wrestling feel good feel comfortable just do it in a working way. In Kerber is do he he became a fabulous professional wrestler and threes. Why is he didn't give up? What are you? What what he was real? He was able to incorporate that into his wrestling. Right. I wanna talk a little bit some of the other NBA champions in your thoughts on them. Obviously Rick flair one of the greatest box office. Didn't work hard to save money. No, he didn't. I mean, he would sit you down by all drinks. He told me to go to Saint Louis and get a five thousand dollars payoff spend ten thousand we would. We would. But the box office draw like you said box office attraction. Yes as world champion. Knew how to create an opponent every time out which is like we said that your job is the champion venture John's, but he he had so much character to you know, his personality his personality was phenomenal. Oh. Clears your throat. I thought you're gonna cough or something. But obviously. Compare flare did you ever work with him quite a few times? Yes, did you? What was the kind of? It's interesting because flourish such a bump and feed guy flooring. Slow him down. Sure, he love that. So I know we talked about how many times you went to Japan, you still go to Japan and still wrestle seventy seven years old seventy six seventy seven seventy seven. So I mean that is that's insane. Seventy seven years old, and I saw the match, and it's you're still out there. You got the bull whip reinvented your outfit, and all that sort of thing. Obviously, you still love performing even at this stage year life performing it's been my life, and I'd like to thank a couple of people from Japan that have been really good. France and wrestlers in champions or someone nation Merv, his our Bank TV world champion, and he'd be fans that belt over Japan on regular basis and Yoshihiko Sumi is the Bank TV general manager. And he's he's another person that we depend on a lot in Japan, not only for business reasons, but for personal and fun reasons and doing things together and somebody else and you run shows here at the the bang arenas at close the bang. Thank TV activity. Sounds and you run shows out of here. Yes. Yeah. With your students. Yes. And you bring in other guys or. Yeah. We're bringing at times we bring in guys. To have used them. Deal. For your last night's band. Yeah. A little loose with my kids. Grazie one. Took a piledriver on the floor and gave me a nice little ball spot. There. But we wind out your door. I wanna ask you a little bit about who are some of your favorite opponents when I say comes to mind right away. That's the one I Jerry Briscoe. Let's not global Jerry Jones a little bit underrated. Because people mostly saw him as one of the stooges with Pat in the attitude era, and obviously we don't want to be all that's right, especially when he gets on that firewater. I'll tell them about base the base, but he talked to today data. Trying to get him on my show to he he lives right down the street from it. I always take out his garbage. And I always try and swerve out of me every time. He gives me the finger his idea who I am. It's the same car every time, Jerry. I haven't changed. But people the because because Jack was so. Champions. So great people forget that Jerry was very good as well. Food. We love Jerry Briscoe. I've worked in big matches with him. In Saint Louis, especially and it was a pleasure. Did you have a lot of matches with the Briscoes versus the funks? Yes. Yeah. Lots of that must have been great. So who else remember one's principles versus the folks and wrestling fame, tried to get it in the rain. Breath fills myself on the mat wrestling, and we didn't see him. So the opportunity was there for come in. And just get to us. My brother, Jerry. I'm coming. Raymond. Cross up project. What everywhere. I always wondered what the mindset was for person to try and get into the ring not a good idea. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was compared to you if you through like a little fish into a pond filled with sharks. It's just like. So we're talking about Jack, Jerry other favorite opponents. Valentine wa who? Wow. Yeah. Son will join Valentine too because after the plane crash but tell what he was like before the plane crash. He uses worker is there is. In professional wrestling. You could not knock him off his feet. No matter. What you did what you did to stand there staring you right in the face. The fans believed in one hundred percent they believed tough sold him one hour match in Houston, Texas, the end of the match I had him nearly beat so ask John Valentine and the referee for five more minutes. So in the five of the read five minute overtime. I started out on top. But he turned it around. It was kicking my ass at the overtime. So he asked the referee for five more minutes for looked at him. I said hell thinking. Journ? Come back in the ninety minutes. Ninety more minutes getting your ass kicked. And we were talking about some of the Japanese guys that you worked did you? Did you have a lot to do with ten room and all Japan? I was really so he was my boss because I he was the guy who is your wer. That's why wasn't nineties when I went every month unless stuff great worker, a great guy. Yeah. Because he came from sumo, correct? He came from so long and he gave him. Baba's over here to train with me. For professional, wrestling and. That was something that was back in the annual days. But he he did a fabulous job. Yeah. And it was a huge huge star Japan as well. He has. Yeah. Wow. Last last question for you might not be an easy one. You can pick a couple. What's what's your favorite match that you ever had or a few of them that stand out the one with Johnny Valentine was cool the one you just said, we're not just saying in Houston and Houston. And turn around want John's that I'll just keep the belt. Yeah. Three. If I were to pick out three of them would be whatever you Valentine while who Jack Brisco and Donadoni gnocchi giant baba Seiji Sakaguchi. Some of these herb. And that was the last night. We're only two months ago and and a blast with if I had five more minutes. Are you going to are you going to Russell again when's your next match booking kid? Okay. February eleven twelve but the idea is to still continue wrestling, you're gonna go until you can't go. Is that kind of your mindset? Do my best to keep myself. Jake's Cam, go. Lastly, I was well wrestlemainia to you worked that card. What did you feel of being a part of wrestlemainia? Did you think you would be as big as the Super Bowl eventually as an old school guy who came in and sixty nine here, you're eighty six or eighty seven at wrestlemainia? What did you think of that? My opinion of Vince McMahon. What are you? Hasn't changed? He's fabulous promoter. He's a genius. Stephanie is genius. Also, and may work their tail off to make that a great carriage. It's not just wow man is not just America. It's all around the world and oil wrestling federation, his proper name. They really are. We'll tell you. It's it's very inspiring to be here to talk to you. Then like, I said a huge honor for me. And also still see you in the ring still training still doing what you love to do. That's what it's all about man, you know, seventy seven forty seven eighty seven. You know, you never know. I've a phrase I like to say the Japanese breslin vans. Never quit. Good aside. Thank you. Thank dory. Funk. Fifty years of being the NBA champion such a great experience. Going to a call of Florida to the Bank TV studios through the live podcast. Live talk is Jericho. Dory is still running the funk in conservatory wrestling school. And if you wanna learn from one of the best check out the school at Dory slash funk dot com. That's dorey hyphen funk dot com. Check it out now get trained by one of the greatest champions in wrestling history. All right. He's a huge success in wrestling. And on Friday, I got a huge success just in general Todd Wagner, who is a bona fide multi billionaire. That's right. He owns twenty nine twenty nine hundred payment with Mark Cuban has a stake in the Dallas Mavericks stake of access TV. It's a fascinating conversation building an empire by one of the guys who'd been streaming based Mark Cuban and Todd Wagner, invented streaming sold it for both narrow and they're now both billionaires will be here to become a billionaire. The show you how to do is tell you how he did. At least let's come up. So in the meantime, stay we'll see that stay hard. Stay. Oh boy. Do the Westwood One podcast network.

wrestling Japan Jack Brisco United States Jerry Texas Dory funk Mr. baba Terry Vince McMahon Chris jericho giants Florida Saint Louis director Jericho John Valentine Fritz von Erich football Amarillo
Jesse "The Body" Ventura PT. 2 | SAS CLASSIC

The Steve Austin Show - Unleashed!

00:00 sec | 3 months ago

Jesse "The Body" Ventura PT. 2 | SAS CLASSIC

"Thank you for listening to this podcast one production. Now, available on Apple podcasts podcast one spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Steve Show's brought you free today about fringe line. Get into mix line DOT AG, and use the Promo Code podcast. One fifty percent. Welcome bonus. Bet Online your online sportsbook experts exclusive partner of podcast one sports net. podcast one presents the Steve. Austin show classics. Let's get far too conversation with Jesse the body Ventura. Looking back at your career, I'm thinking unless I'm missing something from the Guy Google days and watching you know tag team with Adrian Donaldson Awa? East West connection and coming into the WWF as the body. You never worked maybe face never never never. Once went once beginning middle you know Portland Portland okay, know what happened there I worked baby face for maybe a situation baby healtcare and baby I had left and gone to Hawaii. And so they worked the split between me and buddy rose I was teamed with Buddy rose that. So we did a split between buddy and I was staying. So he stayed he'll I actually switched to baby face for that brief program of a few weeks and then later when they brought me back, Don flew men right before I worked for burn he flew me in law snooka and he needed someone to go against rose so he flew me in for two week program to work with buddy out in Portland. Before I started with the AWA. But then I'm imagining that was an edgy face who is making it was a turn based on the story Oh. Yeah, totally situational situational all the way other than that. Never did I work baby face governor was I brought in as one never WANNA be one because baby faces couldn't create. That's interesting. As I he'll. You could create baby face. It was mom apple pie in the girl back home you couldn't insult no one you couldn't be controversial and. There was the old saying Steve Before your day. They gotta hate you before they can love Ya. Yeah. But I've always I've always thought the wall. As a heel you have so much freedom. Yes. On your face, you can trip on them not to say you want to be accommodating you can. You can screw up and it's OK. Is that baby? Certainly hit you had creativity or freedom not as. Okay the the original question was what it this way. I wouldn't have made no money as a baby face. Okay. But okay. Question what is your definition of of our explanation of how you over because like you said, we've seen charismatic talkers who really can't work at much. We'd have great runge. So what is the factor? So we glossed over that but Everywhere you go or those running for mayor whether he's running for governor you one and you're the reform or your independent. So you can make people like you. Yeah. But you really good at making people hate you. Could successful baby-faced him because here's what I think. Superstar Billy Graham was I think like like the DVD they made for almost twenty years ahead of his time had been senior had the foresight like what Vince McMahon did with me. Double term would bread. He would have been a monster baby had he let him run but he drops the title tobacco and he goes off the reservation and it was never the same. Could you could you have been baby because you can get people to vote for you tell yourself I guess great arguments I guess I'd never had the opportunity it never really. To Me, my dad's was to be a he'll be too. I never wanted to be a baby fae either never run one endeavor I didn't want I didn't want it never never was except for the situational short time with buddy rose where we split the team up and we went our separate ways. But other than that, I was always a villain always wanted to be one. Didn't want to be mom apple pie in the girl back home because I just felt that wouldn't allow me to create like I wanted. But also back in that day, you couldn't got away with some of the stuff that I was getting away with which was considered cooler. I was very abrasive but I had a very physical work stop and I was talking to so much trash. It was interesting people back in that day it was more traditional. Evolved to word. Had say ninety six, ninety seven. Yeah. Oh Yeah. Absolutely life like when people say to me WHO's the greatest wrestler of all time I go? You can't answer that I always remember this year in the Olympics when Bella Corolla the the gymnastics coach they started to pin him down on that girl today or not you comin' each. And Bella was great. He said that's impossible. He said there are two different eras. You cannot compare to different eras both were unique in their own way and wrestling's the same way. You can't name like INSA-. Hulk Hogan's the greatest ever or Bruno is the greatest ever Steve Austin's the greatest ever they were the greatest for their era. And you have to just like baseball Henry Aaron Homerun. King. You Know Babe Ruth Home Run king. That's their own era of time when they do it, and because one actually beach the other number weather's a lot of things that could cause that you know the balls livelier at flies farther. Who knows you know whatever could be? That's the reason you can never make comparisons between decades decades because it's a different time, it's a different place in different elements in place. And how the business was perceived when I came in and wwf what year is that because that was the old man run into territory in eighty-one eighty one yeah. What was the difference between and everything evolves, but still it was it was pretty it was pretty specific between the Oh man and vents taken taking it over his dad's all the territory to him. My question is what is the difference between the old man and working with vents? Well, the difference was. As a promoter, the old man was the smoothest ever. He heard that you could go into him. I went into him. So angry one day when met with Vince, senior walked out. achieve nothing and felt good. And I'm ten minutes later. I was pissed again because I thought he schmoozed me I got nothing and yet I left like one. You know and I didn't he where the kid he he didn't have. Something, he didn't have that the old man had the old man could. Give you nothing and you felt he gave you the world. And I don't know how he did it. He just his whole Persona and you know these gentlemen Lee never raised his voice. He was a complete opposite of any Dole man never ever talk loud in fact, he barely he would anything he always had his own villains that passed on his bad news never came from him. He had other people that would give the bad news out on anything but. Then ecorse though to side with vinny, the kid. The old man kept his allegiance to the old promoters and all that stuff right where when and when Vinnie came along Vinnie was good and I'll call him Vinnie as opposed to Vince senior because he had a dream and a vision. And he wanted and maybe he wanted to beat his dad I don't know maybe it was. You know what I'm going to take this colossal great thing my father created and I'm going to be Dr Frankenstein and take it to a level. That my dad would never have dreamed. It could have gotten to any did I give Vince credit he's the P. T. Barnum of of the generation and You. Know one thing about Vince. She'll gamble to the year we did football and all that on as Joe. Joe. Roll the dice. On promoters Oh. You just out working with Geigo don on in Portland. Get Francis in Hawaii vern, Ganja Minneapolis, Vince, senior New, York common thread of all those guys operating and if you're in there for. As far psychology of trying to keep all the boys in an estate of everything's cool because you know the egos and the common thread between all of them. Okay. Okay. Here's the screw. The boys over. That's the common thread. Had they all have their own ways? They all have their own techniques, but essentially, they're doing the same thing but you give it to you give it to Vince senior for being smooth to all. He was the smoothest operate like I said Steve I. Wish you'd have gotten a chance to work for him. You walked in in so angry over something and you to. Walk out feeling he solved the whole thing and then ten minutes later you realized he didn't solve anything but he got me out of the office and got me off my high of course, and he accomplished what he needed to get done. But I'll give you something because you didn't deal with him in your later years because you don't have been through the business and worked and moved on. But Vince Junior, he assume those qualities because I had many dealings with him but I was on the same page with him one time we had a meeting catering and it was one of those. Things where everybody gets together but the rally caps on and get morale up and anybody have any questions. One particular person stood up and asked a question and I don't remember the question, but it was so basic. You're knew what the answer was going to be and midst spun that person around and just you could see the cycle going the. The. PURCHASE GOES OKAY and sits down and everybody in the room except that person knew that they had got hoodwinked they witnessed it first hand. So I've seen many cases of and other guys. Things about going and see the old man and all of a sudden everything's Hunky. Dory find the door slams you can't go back and five seconds later I didn't get anything accomplished what the greatest compliment I was ever made. I've heard this. What was it Freddie Blassie? classy shred. Shot Yup. Freddie. One day apparently when when I was at the height of the whole Saturday night main event i. add my own dressing room never asked for it. But all of a sudden I got address with my day and all this and I heard Freddie stood up one day with the boys and says, there's only one guy in this whole territory that calls his own shots would vince and that's Jesse Ventura. And I can't tell you don't have ignored. grumpy. Freddie blassie if you ever met him. Did Freddie that that's the greatest compliment. Fred could have ever given me and he'll always be dear in my heart more. So than managing me was when he said that there's only one guy that calls his own shots would vits we. Gardening and Fred when she'll up he's getting these. Conversations with. God just respect and he had this charisma about imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said for. To put you over at some of the things I've done what a veteran will put you over and. It doesn't mean anything about tickets sold as if that person has validated that thought about you. Yeah. It's Freddie to say that that was always made me pride to sit for an old timer to say that you're listening to another classic episode of the Steve. Austin. Show only on podcast one. Dot Car lovers car waxes have really come a long way just last year Maguire's introduce their hybrid ceramic spray wax with his bright blue bottle. You can't miss it. It's advance I o to hybrid technology, deliver ceramic, wax protection, and durability far beyond traditional lax and it's incredibly easy to use. Simply Wash your car spray on Maguire Hybrid Ceramic Spray Wax. Then just rinse off for extreme water beating action no rubber know curing buffy and the best part no mess. I'm told the product has been flying off the shelves and this year known some prefer a more traditional style of application. 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Ever did everybody else signed a contract guess I didn't look out for everyone else. We're independent contractor. So to speak with Vigneault, your. Weight Vince is lucky. I didn't go for the Senate because had I gone into the Senate I would have started a senatorial investigation as to why pro wrestlers are called independent contractors. When they're not you work for one company, they order you around they control your whole life. How are you possibly an independent contractor except for they don't have to pay your Social Security That's why and Vince is lucky that I never got to the Senate because I would have investigated that because to me look at the thousands of dollars, it's cost all of us wrestlers to path to pay fifteen percent or whatever it is as an independent contractor on our taxes. That's a B- that's been under my saddle since began wrestling I thought we are not independent contractors I can't work for another promoter on Wednesday and then worked for you on Friday it don't work that way. How are we independent contractors? You brought up the idea the union way back in the day what was it eighty four? You know it was right before Wrestlemainia. To, okay because I left a Predator and became part of the screen actors guild and before I signed with Vince I told Dory. About. Union Vince I got mine. Okay. If they don't want it, that's their fault. But when you brought the idea like, did you have any design on how it'd be run? What you know I'd accomplish all wanted all I did. Was Wrestlemainia to two weeks before it all the publicity had gone out. It would the vantage was ours see Jesse Ventura studies business the advantage was hours I stood I waited. So there was no agents around I stood up in the dressing room and I gave a speech to the boys and this was at the time we were still battling Charlotte and I said, if we go together and simply simplest tell the media we are not wrestling. Unless Union negotiators by federal law come in and give us the opportunity to unionize I. Should guys the people that turn on the lights in these buildings are union. I said, they have to do it by law it's in our favor. Then if we engage Charlotte guys to do the same thing, we can have a union in wrestling. I gave this big speech I left it. There I went home the next night I got a call from Vince. Who basically threaten to fire me if I ever brought it up again And read me the riot act and I, then went and did Wrestlemainia to and immediately left and did Predator and was a member of the screen actors guild now by union retirement from now healthcare from all of that from and. So. When I came back to Vince, I, told him point blank Vince I won't ever bring up union again I said if these guys are too stupid to fight for their rights I have Meyer Union now I'm a member the screen actors guild I get health care I, get retirement I get everything from them I'll pay my union dues you won't hear from me well then when I sued vintage We had to depose him and on the way out I told my lawyer, the story and in-depth position. You can bring up anything and I said if you can David find out who ratted me I said find out who ratted me that day because it was one of the boys because there were no agents there and so we got in there and maternal grady says Mr McMahon, he said. has there ever been a union wrestling Vince know? Anyone ever tried to form one. Minute? Well, yes. A matter of fact I think Jesse Ventura spouted his mouth off about once years ago and my attorney goes well, how do you know that? Did you hear him? No well, how did you know he spouted by he didn't even hesitate Hulk Hogan. told me. I was sitting in the chair and had a deputy she didn't sell it. At a deposition, you can't talk right and you gotta be I. was there. It was like someone punched me in the face. This was my friend. And I thought Hogan betrayed me Hogan called Vince and ratted me was an office. In my day, that's what they were called. that. That was a low life, an offer somebody who reports to the office in the old days and it stunned me stunned to me I sat there in the chair and I couldn't even think. that it was Hogan. and Vince admitted admitted on Larry King to and there's no reason for him to lie. He's under sworn oath and then Hogan continued to lie about it said, he didn't do it. And I've never spoken to him since and I don't care too because he sold in my opinion Hogan showed me out and then I, found out in the trial. Why? Well. In the trial, we got the records of Wrestlemainia three the big one him and Andrei well, Hogan. Made more money than all of us combined including Andrei if you took the payoffs of Andrei the whole rest of the card. Hogan made more than we did. So naturally, he didn't want a union that could even out the money a little bit more and when I saw that he made more than Andrei, and all of us combined then the picture was crystal clear to me that he sold us out because he was getting taken care of and he didn't want nobody else. Horn in on the good deal, he ad how was going back in two thousand nine when you the General Manager for night of Monday, night raw, and you got a chance to interact with a couple of promos and ended color to match. Yeah. y'All clicked right back into the old gear for me I took it as that when they flew me there. I turned to my son because my son came with me that night and I turned to mashed tie. I said, please bear with me tonight. But this is an opportunity for one night for me to go back and be who and so did you notice I it this everyone was going to cheer me and I right away turned went villain i. Did that on purpose I said I want to be the old Jesse and so I went there and went against all the baby crap and went total villain and what it did it gave me a fleeting moment of enjoyment of what it used to be. It's like anything in life when you leave something and you never do it again, rarely get an. To relive the feeling and that's what it gave me for that one night. After the lawsuits after all he has. To be it was business business business vince was treating me fine. We were both scratching each other's back. I can't complain about. Vince. because. Here's here's here's the thing I'm embarrassed over Stephen I. Think you were part of this. The biggest pay day I ever received in wrestling was when I refereed the match in. Minneapolis. was. Governor. Ninety, eight or ninety, nine, ninety, nine. And what I say I'm embarrassed over that. As a wrestler, how can I say my biggest payoff was being a referee? I'm a wrestler referees come on. Those are the old washed up. Guys are the guys who couldn't wrestle in the first place want to be in the business no offense to the referees but. Here, I'm getting the biggest payoff I've ever gotten in my life and it's because I'm a fricken Raff you know that third of it was tough to take the money was great. It overshadowed it. I'm glad you brought that up here something in having matching. I I don't know if you know about this to this day. So I was part of that matches me. Yes six. H IN A. Triple Threat Matt Yeah Yeah Hate. Those kind of matches I'd never seen one before. attacked. Team wrestling when I was Brian sure come to love it but I was always like a single guy. Yeah. So anyway, we're in a triple threat and think Shane McMahon came ringside and I was standing on the bottom rope and he came by the ring I took a swipe at him and when I did this was the first night that was the first night that I started wearing the double knee braces I used to wear one. Okay. Now we're in double because these are so bad well, I tipped over and went upside down and when I did. I was hung hung myself in ropes some hanging upside down by my legs there's no way I can write myself back up and so something just haven't maybe it was something you did with Shane but all of a sudden you go onto a strut and I'm hanging upside down I can't ask Mick or AAA stay helped me out I can't get out of here. Sure. So as you're strutting I hanging upside down going Jesse Jesse. Jesse and you're caught up in a moment we got twenty thousand people there hanging upside down on the top baby face in the world and screwed, and so finally AAA should me who I don't even remember visit. But triple h he writes me up and he had no business doing. So because he's a he'll show and this is one of those moments every now and then I'll watch a high spot or something with AAA I love working with and right away I had to start putting them like God. Dang it. Got It. Got It but I'm using the other worship and we went to host a whole spot, but it was so embarrassing it would just. frigging believable. Jesse did wait you made you took care of me and ninety two and W W helped me out and ninety mad. Give me back on my feet i. don't even remember. I had the enjoyment that night what I really took pride in as referee. I actually backed down China that night really. Yeah. She backed up from she sold me and member China wasn't taken crap from nobody damage she was over strong. Yeah. Yeah. She was over big but I got along well with her I was really sad when I learned she died I know I I was really because you know she had a background but she always she was very fair to me and she I liked her I didn't really enjoyed her she was a strange woman you know but but. An unbelievably good talent. She is national sweetheart. She was great talent we all own issues but of great looks she was all wrong. Oh. Yeah, a phenomenal talent and We had this kind of relationship that just kind of goofy sense of humor. Steve, let's get to the book. Let's talk about that. Went through the Segue to it because you gotta go. Yeah. The marijuana manifesto. On, Chapter Three everybody listened to my podcast knows that I have a hard time reading, but the four by Kim Duffy. No Cubby Steve Steve Cubby that things halfway riveting go? Yeah. It's. It's an outrage. It is outrage the let me explain why this is a focus to me now I know. Seizures, right? Yeah. I had someone very close to me developed epileptic seizures and was seizing three to four times a week not only was this person's quality of life gone sores mind because if you've ever had to deal with a person with seizures, it's hopeless year hopeless. You don't know what you can do. You want to do something and there's nothing you can do to bring them back until the seizure runs its course and. We had gone our quality of life was gone. The person went to the doctor got put on four different pharmaceutical medicines. One one, the next one, the next none of them worked. The seizures continued all the pharmaceuticals had horrible side effects. One was hair falling out all these horrible side effects. Finally in desperation we went to Colorado and I managed. We got what they call medical marijuana three drops under the top three times a day. It's now in pill form one pill in the morning one pill at night. This person's completely off seizure Pharma Madison now has been seizure free for two and a half years and it cured her this person and. I owe my life. My. Ladder golden years to marijuana. So I've now made it a focus that I wanna see it legal across America before I die. And that's going to be one of my focuses is to see that happen because there's other people out there suffering, and the thing that I found in researching this book is we're lied to history. They've lied to us when you find out marijuana was the back economic backbone of this country for one hundred and sixty years. Exactly and George I like to say this George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. If they live today, they'd be rated by the DA. They'd be doing ten to twelve years in a federal penitentiary as major drug dealers because they raised and sold massive amounts of marijuana back. Then the only reason cotton replaced it in the south was when they invented the Cotton Gin. It was marijuana before that this country and my other argument, the Constitution, the bill of rights and Betsy Ross's flag are all made out of marijuana. If that doesn't make it all American what could? Argue, we allow tobacco, we allow alcohol. WHY IS MARIJUANA MENU LEARN WHY? Because William Randolph hearst wanted to corner the market so we paid off the politicians to make it illegal. So we'd have to buy his lumber from lumber and trees the paper rather than marijuana I love to throw this out to my friend Willie Nelson. I've been to Willie's home and Willie's a great guy. He is a phenomenal homey oh. Yeah. Right. In Austin way loves to be on the bus. Well, that's the point I'm getting to Willy doesn't only smoke pot which who cares sorted. SATCHMO Louis B Armstrong came out and said, he smoked before every time he played now if that kitchen Willie Nelson and it gets you Louis Armstrong, I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with marijuana. And Willie not only does she partake in which everyone knows about? Get this. He runs all his tour buses on biodiesel fuel for marijuana. So it can power our vehicles. This plant is so remarkable when you learn about it. You think why have we been eradicated at net I love to throw this in St for all the religious people out there. Okay. Then you have to admit God made marijuana because it was here before we were. So if God. What right do we have to destroy it to destroy something God made and if he made it then as the stories go, he made it for us to use it. Everything was put on earth for us to us. Why aren't we using it the proper way and my I dedicated the book to My friend Tommy Chong 'cause people laugh about Cheech and Chong he made his living at pot but tom is a brilliant guy. If you ever meet him a radius on the Internet and Tommy informed me, there should be no difference between what they call medical and recreational because the people that smoke it for the afforest feeling are doing it for mental health. They're doing it and what's wrong with that I'd rather have someone take a hit of a pot and be on PROZAC. You know and and show if you smoke it for your mental, you're not harming anybody why how can in a free country? Can you commit a crime against yourself? You're listening to another classic episode of the Steve? Austin show only on podcast one. There's no shortage of action going on at our exclusive partners bet online sports slowly making a way back with UFC box NASCAR, and soccer leading the way in line as all the best odds and lands for the upcoming Games and matches met online as futures odds on everything. You can imagine season win total division is and even odds on every league championship you need more but online assimilated simulated. NFL Madden Games NBA Two K., and you have see having everyday laugh you to watch and wager on move for something else other than sports bet online also as hundreds of live, Casino Games, poker tournaments, and all the best props in the business visit bet online dot ag or use your mobile device join now to receive your new welcome bonus start playing today but online your online wagering experts. They're. So there's so many arguments that I'm only beginning of the book, but there's so many arguments for against. And Colorado. Legal Right. Well. Technically because you can only buy so much. Yeah. Go by many cigarettes as many alcohol as I want, that's when it's legal on it. That's when it's legal when you can walk in and there's no limit you can buy as much alcohol or cigarettes as you want right or cheeseburgers. So. Why shouldn't you? Why do they limit you to an ounce of marijuana or a half an ounce? The most a visitor can buy. I don't understand argument why that's the way it is. But the good thing is happening state by state. That's the way it's going to be legalized because California's GonNa. Vote next this fall and I fully want them. I. Expect Them To legalize I hope it happens out here. I would think in California just because of California that that. That's well when. Colorado the all the bad things they told you about it aren't happening. But what about the risks? Why what about just just driving under the influence I mean because if you drink and drive, there's a breath meter and they can tell you what percentage of driving atvs a point one, four point Oh yachting on what state you're in. So with respect to marijuana. You know. I've driven it's called personal responsibility. You're not supposed to drive under the influence of anything I could counter Steve Say I think texting and cell phones are more dangerous. Would agree you know and people do that drive out here in L. A. Today and take a look people drive half of them are looking I notice half of them are looking at a cell phone. Well, excuse me that's a ton project Dole that goes one hundred miles an hour that you're in charge of you ought to be paying attention to what you're doing. It's like it's like I said when I was governor. With freedom comes a price. We all want freedom but along with freedom comes the Yang and the Yang of it, the freedom to be stupid and we have to accept that and as I used to say, you can't legislate stupidity people are going to do stupid things and in the case of, yes you should not drive under the influence of marijuana but also the testing's unfair because if they were to test, you could smoke pot on Saturday, and on Thursday if you're pulled over, you'll test positive. We'll. You're not under the influence of marijuana five days later so they need to. Find a mechanism that will immediately are you under the influence while you're driving. But on the flip side, if you are driving on pot chances are you're going slower chances are you're abiding by the laws more so than speeding maybe but if they were to have that mechanism, do you think that would help the cause? Maybe maybe not because every day in America there's three hundred, thousand drunk drivers out there. Who doesn't know it's illegal. There's no excuse to drink and drive and people still do it. Don't they right and they're not outlawing alcohol are they? But. So that's my point is, is it? Big. Pharma. That's one. Oh, it's a big Pharma. It's the tobacco industry. It's the alcohol industry none of them wanted legal because that all cut into their profits. If if if if someone if they've already proven one of the major lies, we've always been told than marijuana is a gateway drug to heroin and yet now it's been proven in every state that's legalized marijuana heroin usage is dropped. It's. Done the opposite and when you look today and Hillary Clinton takes the chicken way out like all politicians. Well, we need more testing. No, we don't. There's a university in Israel the cannabis university we find the doctor over there knows everything about it. He's already stated it will help post traumatic stress for soldiers coming home. He stated it will help head trauma in the NFL. It already, as you saw Steve, Cobb, a cure, some forms of cancer it stops you if you're getting chemotherapy or able to eat and consume food it has so many positives to the small amount of negatives that it is ridiculous that this is not available to everybody who needs it or wants it, and it's jobs waiting to happen Steve How many people work in the tobacco industry. How many people work in the alcohol industry how many jobs are waiting? The state of Washington you know what their first windfall was when they legalized and I can tell you as a governor this mammoth they saw a fifteen percent drop in their statewide judicial budget. Fifteen percent you're talking hundreds of millions of dollars. Out of your judicial budget as taxpayers, you don't have to pay for that. You see people need to understand every time. A person gets arrested for anything that costs you money. It costs you taxed as to arrest anybody for anything will, why are we arresting people for committing crimes against themselves in a free country? And it's an argument. There is no argument. Why would it be illegal when George Washington and Thomas Jefferson used? Excuse me. They were smoking pot and they wrote the constitution and the bill of rights. I find those two documents pretty damn good. And get this Washington, even knew in his diary he knew about cross pollination. He talked one year he was angry because he led his hemp cross pollinate he lost his female and male plants. So they obviously knew about the afforest feeling to yes and what's wrong with it I like I've told people. If. I. Went to a Party and was offered a party to go to a drinking party or at a pot party I take the pot party. The chances of violence are slim. The non with drinking. It's fifty fifty up nobody's GonNa throw up on me and you can smoke pot till three in the morning and get up and go to work and function. Drinking you drink till three o'clock get up at seven. You Ain't GonNa Work Joe Listening to another classic episode of Steve, Austin Show only on podcast one. Did you know that right now Geico has offered an extra fifteen percent credit on car motorcycle and RV policies. That's fifteen percent on top of the money guy could already save you. So what are you waiting for you to make you breakfast in bed with Belgian waffles at a French food. As Nice as that sounds that's probably never going to happen. But at least there's never been a better time to switch to geico save an extra fifty percent when you switch by October seventh visit GEICO DOT COM to learn more. Question It's taking you about a year to put the research together at least. Horse with Jen Yup to put his boat together forty pages of notes talk about just for second to leave but you're talking about what? Scott? Horace Publishing Union partner there he's going to get a lot of heat for putting smokeout no-one lions. Yeah. Tony Lange because you you said Tony don't care. About the. He'll take the heat. What kind of heat comes from a book like this from the status quo from heat from the government, the federal government doesn't want it legal they make money off keeping it illegal, correct and so and not only that. But if the feds come out now and legalize it, then don't they have to let everybody out of prison that she in there for. Pot wouldn't you think if they see, that's why they won't legalize because they now have corporate run prisons and incorporate run prison you have to have it full. So the corporation can turn profit to the stockholders. So it's imperative to pot smokers in jail so that the corporate run prisons can make money for the private corporations but Obama's out and said, he's GonNa end that. Great. Great and the Atlantic. You did a interview with those guys July two, thousand, sixteen you say you're paying a price writing some the books that you've written you can't get hired in the United States you're blackballed here. While mainly mainly, I'm blackballed over the Chris. Kyle. Thing. The Chris Kyle thing yeah, because she lied. No story Yup but I mean. So how does that make you feel? MINNESOTA, you're hearing I. Take You well I, love you to death I know and you do and some do. But as the person in the room can testify when I was out New York I got read off in the lobby of a hotel over the Chris Kyle thing. In this was. This was September. The eleventh of Twenty sixteen all your and enough for your story well while but he all I did was he lied about me and I went to court and proved it. But see now I'm a target. Your because the the court of Appeals overturned the jury, they broke a seventy six year rule. And they broke a second rule that they ruled the opposite three days later on in a different case going back to court. Yeah. I have to retry the whole case they've ordered a new trial. Yes, it is. But I'm a target scout did as a sniper for country but and this I don't know why you're them well I. Don't know why either because all I did was stand up for a lie he lied about up for yourself. Any lied about me and He had he lied about a lot of other things. The latest they caught him he lied about his medals. The, Navy had to come out and make the correction. Will you get any heat out the marijuana manifesto? Sure. Probably I probably will the DA. Very highly I want them disbanded. I feel that the Drug Enforcement Agency there as bad as the cartels, there's cases they break into homes, shoot and kill people, and then find out they got the wrong address I and nobody goes to jail for nobody's held accountable. I guess it's a real war civilians always die as collateral damage in war. Is there another book up you slave? They're real guy thank one more one more I won't talk about it now but you have to be motivated to write on something and. I'll I'll be writing one more book that probably won't be popular. But I have to do it. Then it'll be, it'll be, I'll tell you what it is. It's going to be a book on my trial really. Yeah. I want the public to see the transcripts of the trial and see what the Court of appeals dead and all this because I think the public needs to know that when you're a person like me who stands up as an individual that you can get targeted by them. I don't know how you feel about Mr Snowden but to me, he's a hero because he exposed the government for violating the fourth amendment to the constitution and yet he's treated like a criminal and if he comes home, he'll be arrested and put in prison. Well, do you know who? John? Kerry, who is not all you need to have him on? He's a former CIA agent. WHO REFUSED TO TAKE TORTURE TRAINING TO TORTURE PEOPLE? He's the one that exposes the torture in Iraq guests who went to jail. He did the guy who refused torture and who would expose that. We were committing war crimes torturing people he ended up two years in prison can't get a job today and they've literally destroyed him because he told the truth about US committing a war crime. I'm not at the level of John. But I still feel I'm a target like him. You're about to head out again and I've signed a new contract while people didn't realize thirty four major media conglomerates came into my trial in the pills to have it overturned every major media America wanted my verdict overturned. And they did it. They used their influence on these two judges Riley and shepherd and they plush yours what they violated. In court case if you're going to object to final argument if something said final, you must object in front of the jury so that the judge has a chance to rule and the jury has a chance to hear it. They never objected the jury left at eleven fifty eight that twelve oh to the objected and the judge overruled them the two judges. Then overturned the case over something that was never objected to during the case which broke a seventy six year. Rule. Then they overturned a Minnesota law called. Unjust enrichment they now say that can't apply well the rules to the appeals court state. You can only argue the theory that was argued in the trial while the media came in and argued a new theory and they accepted it three days. Later on another case, they ruled directly the opposite way. And I'll state this. It even came out. I've heard from other judges have said clearly Jesse Ventura, they're out to get him out of a Finnish book and they're going to go back to Mexico when you get done making your way around odd i. in fact, I'll tell you what I'm doing being that I'm black balled in the US media and no one will allow me I took a job. On the Internet with where the companies owned by Carlos Slim the Mexican while that didn't get a year and a half and that didn't quite work out because of other things. But during that time, my show was picked up by Russian television. And I've now signed a two year contract. With Russian television, I will be on there with Russian TV the night of the election. And people call Russian TV a propaganda tool by the Russian government. That's a lie Yes we're financed by Russia, but shows PBS financed by our government here s plus we don't have no advertising so big Pharma can't control me or no advertiser whoa control me they flew me to Russia in December. I met Putin and I've been assured I will never be censored. Any way shape or form I can say what I feel and they've done it so far after believe them but isn't it ironic? Steve that is of Vietnam vet and live through the Cold War. It's now the Russians giving me my free speech and not my own country where you found that here and they're all there are no there. Oh Yeah. Rt America. It's so powerful. My show will be seen by eight, hundred, million homes throughout the world. Is Second, only to the BBC on world coverage it's just that Russian TV censured here. It's hard to get it on the United States it. As soon as I get back from this. As soon as I'm through and as soon as. As soon as the election's over I, I want to be busy when I'm in the states. See I I've got a deal set up with them where do eight shows then I'll go to Mexico for the winter and then come back and do shows again. Knows Dave while it's more shows than that but it's eight o'clock and they've bent over backwards for me I do them right Minnesota but after. About Anything I want to talk about you just decided. And we're GONNA talk about all those controversial things like medical marijuana like torture like I heard Putin interviewed the other day and the BBC Guy was getting on him about Russian aggression and president. Putin said. Well, let's put it into common sense terms. We Russia, we have two military bases outside of Russia. He goes to the United States as one hundred, seventy four. WHO's the aggressor in? Well, I sit back and go gee when you one hundred, seventy, four to two, I'd say worthy aggressor out in the world she the United States were living with blinders on. Did you know? Steve. That there was a poll taken three years ago by Gallup, three thousand people internationally no US people. One of the questions was if your country were to go to war, who would it be likely be against twenty three percent answered the United States. Eight percent answered China six percent answered Pakistan one out of four people internationally think if they go to war, it'll be with the US as a veteran. I hang my head in shame over that that that's all were looked at now worthy war country were the country that everyone fears will go to war against I, want to change that. And you know working for the Russians here are some fun with you. Why are after all these years? They should be our friend. Shouldn't they after finally I'm just where the heat's wait and hear Ya to. But here's my kicker. Thing well, we should be friends with Russia after all their white. You know this isn't Mexico. We're talking about here Brown skin people we want to build walls to defend these are white people. And I do that tongue in cheek. No but I do laugh about and CI. They're white people. Why wouldn't we want to be friends with them? But. And here's the other reason I want to do it Steve. My father fought in World War Two six bronze battle stars. North. Africa. Normandy Battle of the Bulge and Anzio. Berlin. Reminding Bridge and he he didn't talk much about the war but he did tell me about Berlin the friendship she made with the Russians when they got there. And I could never figure out how they became our enemy before the war was even over they did. Well, it's because Wall Street ranch and WHO's Wall Street afraid of socialism. That's how come they became our immediate enemy while with my father and mind I'm sixty five. Now I want to do anything I can to make in Russia friends, and if it means a little part is working on Russian television. To show both sides, we can do it. That's what I'm GonNa do now. That and get marijuana made legal. Those are the two things that I'm focusing on. Now in my golden years as they call it more conspiracy theories coming know that got gotten so much trouble for that. I got read off on the floor of Congress. Did you know that I didn't know oh? Yeah. I got read off on the floor of Congress when. We did the show about that FEMA camps. When you say read off what does that mean that means a congressman up on the floor and read officially into the record what a horrible person I was for exposing that they ordered Fema to build these camps around the US and we took photos of them. They look identical to the German camps they got. Spurs coming up we went to one barb wire fences and do you know how to read wire? You'RE GONNA learn barb wire if it straight up and down it's neutral. If it's slants this way it's to keep you in. If it slants that way, it's to keep people out from getting in all these FEMA camps it slants in. At. In and in the back of one was all these toys for kids to play on and I approached them in the show. I said, you've had children here. We don't answer anything. You have to talk the Homeland Security. Well why would you have toys, jungle gyms and what for adults? Put Kids in here for what purpose I got read off on the floor of. Congress. For that. Well, when we went diploma island where where It's as we circled the island, the coastguard fill in and put US under observation right behind us the whole time we had two vehicles on shore piggybacking I. Guess They thought as a frogman I might swim in. I didn't want no part of that island. You know where they do the biological warfare where we turn it over to a Nazi to do it, we found the history of it. The guy's Nazi that ran plum island. That's where what do you call the disease came from A. Lime disease because it's named after lyme Connecticut, which is right across the water from Plum Island where they do these experiments in this guy, what was his name can think he was the head Nazi for biological warfare and we gave him his own laboratory unplumbed island. The United States sky should have stood trial at Nurnberg lamb disease. was created at plum, island. Those from ticks it is. That's what they experiment on ticks and mosquitoes biological warfare. You infect the mosquitoes and ticks and then turn them loose you me would I kid about what we do for war Steve Much watching to think about this minute. Chemical warfare illegal right. They can't use tear gas and war right yet we can use it on our own people to break up. Demonstration. So we use on our own people chemicals that we are not allowed to use against an enemy. That make sense that we would use on our own people jazz given us go home Q. or sound off Damn Jesse has been a pleasure having you here Steve. It was my pleasure to come here to renew our friendship and I'll state this when I did that. Short. gig At WCW I knew then they didn't know what the hell they were doing with you and when you got up to Vince Vince new to do what you know I saw you as a talent waiting to happen. You just needed the right people to make it happen and you found them I did come by absolutely. I'll read but give me to go home. Depot was podcast and ride off into the sunset man I want thank about of interest stopping by three sixteen gimmick St. it was good seeing you and congratulations on the book. The best seller probably the marijuana manifesto I'm GonNa Finish reading this book called Jesse Foam She just have ended up discussion with everything in the book. There's so much information. There I highly recommend. You go check out Jesse Ventura Marijuana Manifesto. It really opened my eyes to a lot of the stuff that goes on marijuana industry in general. Thank you for joining us for another classic episode the Steve Austin Show leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts and tell your friends for more Steve Austin show go to podcast one dot com that's podcast E. DOT com. Coming to live by live Thursday July. Thirtieth Darius Rucker's dairies and friends virtual concert benefiting Saint Jude Children's Research Hospital catch an exclusive one time only performance by Darius. Rucker live from the Grand Ole opry stage featuring guest appearances by Clint Black and Tracy Lawrence proceeds from the show benefits Saint Jude so get your tickets today at live x live dot com slash Darius and tune in July thirtieth at eight PM Eastern only on live by live.

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Willem Dafoe

Maltin On Movies

59:26 min | 2 years ago

Willem Dafoe

"Hi, guys. We are so excited to tell you about our sponsor today mall. Finan movies is being brought to you by legion 'em. And it's the world's first fan owned entertainment company. We love working with them. There are some of the nicest people, and they do lots of really cool things like fan meet ups events all over the country. They really make it fun for anybody. Who's a part of the legion you can actually own a piece of a movie, and it doesn't cost a fortune to do it. Find out more at WWW dot legion m dot com. I rebutted I'm Leonard vaults. And I'm Jesse Maltin listening to Maltin on movies, I will Willem mountain. Dr. Well, this is Willem Defoe our guest Willem Defoe hyphen molten. I hope they can sit. On his too long. But I'm gonna go with it. The marquee might be a little tough don't know worth. It. Don't know a quick random question. Yes. Say. You grew up in the mid west. Yes. I did. I go up. I went to public school nothing to lead us or anything. But me when I was growing up. I was called him Van Gogh and go. Yes, you were saying a you. A you give the artist or learning about the artist we call them Van Gogh and everyone calls in Van Gogh pretty much that speaks American English. So the first time I don't wanna feel like a philistine because I've heard the proper pronunciation, right? And well where you are all k- in Italy. And in France, it's fan gawk and in Holland, it's real not really. And I'm not gonna do it Justice is not go. It's been. Oh, it's more. Like, it's that is getting accomplished. You know? So years of Hebrew school, though. I learned that I I'm not you're seven years old. They just had to going. Like a cat. So I could I could handle that. So. Obviously for the movie we adopted the one that we're comfortable with. Because that makes us feel free. Good. Very good. And I also thought that the for for English speaking audiences. That's what most people are comfortable with. And if you're speaking English in the movie, and then you often come along on certain surnames are or words that you pronounce properly, then they just jumped up and the end you're taken out of the moving. Good call. I think. Yeah. Well, the reason I started with that random question is that our guest Mr. Defoe may currently be seen in his getting great acclaim for his performances bango. And we'll be attorneys gate, and and it is a wonderful performance. Really get under his skin. And I'm sure really inch nobble who made the movie it seems like he wanted us in the audience. You get inside his head. I think so it's a very subjective camera. You're with him. You're with him doing things you're with him walking out nature. You you're with him when he's painting. There's some direct address, you know, to the camera, which is sometimes very irritating device in most films. But I think it's done here in such a way that for me. Anyway, it's it's comfortable. You do get in his head. And because this movie I don't think tries to explain away Van Gogh it tries to imagine what his life was like what his in those last years. And that's really broadly, the approach we'll talk more about I want to point out almost emblematic of your screen career also on tater screens or ground the globe right now in aquaman, also Merman. Merman? It's true, though, every time I think if you. You make a whole lot of movies. And I love it. And it's always interesting, but I had no idea you were command. So my husband, and I went to see it the other day there you are. And I just thought he's Van Gogh and Birmingham. There's not many actors in the world who can go. I've got two roles actually right now and one of them, I'm a fish. Though, though, as as we were discussing earlier, not your first time as a fish. That's true. That's true count finding nemo and finding Dory. Right. Well, you've got a heck of a resume. You really do you really do and that doesn't even count because unless we're in New York when you've been there. We haven't seen you on state. I've not had the pleasure of seeing state and still do I still do fit or work last because I used to work with the company, and basically or almost well, I guess I was twenty seven years every day. I was that theatre that I wasn't on a movie set, and that was most of the time. So it was really my life for a long time. I was up theater actor I and I think it really informed very much how I approach performing in even approached how I might movies. Now, I am no longer with that company. The Wooster group, although it does still exist, and I do theater, but only. Specific shows I've worked with Richard foreman. And Robert Wilson a couple of times and most recently with Romeo Castellucci, the great Italian director. So I do that. But very much like like when you talk about a Van Gogh and aquaman, sometimes those worlds don't know about each other. But actually, that's kind of mice because it reminds you there's all kinds of ways to make things us all kinds of stories to tell there's all kinds of ways to perform. And I think when you have a certain kind of flexibility, you're more open to experience, and it's not just about executing. It's really about discovering. And it's about an on Bree. Connecting with some kind of wonder well last year with the Florida project. We are. We are just Gaga how good no the Sean Baker is a great filmmaker. And and that was such a pleasure to do. I've always I've always liked. I've always. Loved watching movies from other cultures particularly where I don't know. Whether the people are actors in like, I liked performances that aren't. Necessarily where you don't recognize the craft or you don't you don't. You know, you don't know whether they're people are actors, and this was a case of I had to be a person. I and that's kind of what I aspire to do all the time. But this was really good occasion to be a person. I act a second and take your cues from the real people in the environment. We were shooting and from the job than people at didn't really sometimes some did. But some didn't really have traditional skills of an actor technique, but they were wonderful at inhabiting things and doing things, and it was such a reminder that sometimes, you know, the lessons can come from my interesting places. Yeah. What what we struck us when we interviewed, Sean. The two of them were nurturing out so hard on the bet Greenwich film. He's got an tastic, film culture. There will francophiles. Just French all, but but that in particular about spanky McFarland. Oh, yeah. Regain a little Rask. We were really struck by his positively. He did not describe the people in that film accepting you as non actors, which which is a fun one. Non-professional? He called them. First timers. What a lovely positive euphemistic. Right. Right. That great. It's true. It's true. And crit crisper gosh is writing, you know, the both of them they come together, and they make this film. And it was it blew your mind and away because of its simplicity, and what you're talking about that kind of thing. And if people if someone didn't know you I don't think they've know that you weren't just that guy, and that's a big deal. And I think that's also what's what's funny about being in these kind of opposing roles Merman and Van Gogh is that it's it's to extremes, but you're an actor. So whether you're painting assign at your motel or trying to get the topless old woman sitting by the pool to put on clothes, you know, all of these different things. It's all it's all in there. And it's all interesting, and and kind of like what a costume designer sometimes sometimes you're not supposed to notice the wardrobe the. Yes. If if the performance is good enough, you shouldn't notice, and that's. I mean there there are all kinds of performance by performances in performances, and I. Sometimes I'd like very actor Lee performances. I appreciate them. And sometimes like doing them, you know, a big mask or something very, Patrick, but I will say that the actors that you know, that I responded to ever since I was a kid we're we're not the movie stars. But they tended to be the more, you know, like be movie actors and horror film actors because they they had a humanity. Sometimes. More professional or polished performers in. Impact? It may be it's not just a question of flaw. But it's, you know, a friend says to me, you know that. It's I think of this expression. You know, the the best is the enemy of the good sometimes. And now and also I'm I'm obsessed lightly. By is expression. That's come into very common usage. Nailing it. I don't like this work. There is no nailing it and nailing. It is also when you think about it. It's about stopping the motion of something, you know, it's killing it. It's putting it, of course, it means perfection and well done, but also the image is like nailing down keeping that knowing what it is. You know, keeping it where it's supposed to be not letting it slide around and the truth is, you know, on Monday, something that's great can be horrible on Friday and something that's great on Friday can be you know, horrible on Monday. So you got to have that kind of you gotta let the reality. And the reality is imperfect, and it's contradictory, and it's disappointing and all those things. Again, you're you're you're not proving your point. You're. You're becoming your point. Ailing it, by the way, we have an ongoing is about to say his favorite about which is better nailing hit or criminal killing it or crushing it. These are his favorites. He likes to ask people, which would you prefer to be doing killing or crushing? Nailing? I was thinking Jesus and you graduate. You've been there crushing it. I think of the crusher I grew up in the mid west at the time before before all, you know, where there were sweaty gyms where these guys would go around on tour and do these all star wrestling's most show lack and the crusher were. Vern ganja. So whole world. Let's look at the clock back a little bit. You do come from Wisconsin. Yes. That like. Small town, the great state of Wisconsin. Yes. When I grow up, I think it was fifty thousand people, and it was it had some universities. It had. It was a big paper mill town when I was growing up. So it was light industry is kind of the seed about quite rural area. It had a paper institute. World-class paper institute. Yeah. It was very, you know, Ari struck that of surnames were were German and English. They ran the factories, and then there were Italian polish names and they worked in the factory. So there was a little bit of a class thing there that I was wasn't that conscious of when I was a kid, but I look back on it. And I think that was really strong there. But it was pretty monoculture is very white. It was it was a good place to grow up. But as I became interested in things outside of their I found Dino, also some very narrow mindedness, and I people get disappointed. I don't mean to slag it. It's was a wonderful place to grow up, and it's probably changed a lot. But I had a lot of trouble. When I was reaching adolescence about really feeling like if you didn't stay line. They take it out. You know, kind of an oppression social oppression. That lead in any securities or you're acting. Maybe maybe I don't know. I don't know. I think you know, my. If you looked at a psychological portrait, probably the reason, why became an actor initially was I came from big family, and you know, you all take your roles, and I was kind of I was probably the least talented, but I became the entertainer. By default. You know, and when you first siblings five sisters, two brothers. Yeah. And I think when it starts out, it's a social thing. And you know, yes, you do sports and things, but what you get reinforcement for is being in the school play. So it starts out as that thing. And then as you get older, I never thought of it as a profession, and I never drained a lot did go to university for a little while. But then something else happens and you start meeting artists and you start meeting. People that make their life. Make a living out of being being an artist and you travel a little bit. And all of a sudden it takes on a different dimension. You use the word before I got to use it on you mask. What you said. I ask. All actress put on asks some more than others consciously or more overtly than others. Yes. You've literally. What on a number mass as well as figurative? Yes. And. When did that that appeal to you right away? Well, I think you know, one of the most influential performances when I was a kid that I saw I still think about hours bar, scar losses Frankenstein the sequence in. Bride of Frankenstein where he says we be long, and well, we belong dead. And he reaches for the lever. That foes makes the explosion happens that brings down the castle and a single tear rolls down his eye that was Abbas movies to me that was opera that was that was very poignant. All of those things still true. Yes. Yes. So. I think I was drawn to extreme situations and extreme ways of performing. And I think also fitter background not always. But I just find that sometimes mask provides it becomes a trigger to forget yourself, for example, when I did this movie shadow vampire, I was unrecognizable and it was a long makeup job. And when I would look at myself in the mirror. I didn't look like myself and accent. I didn't sound like myself. I was wearing course it and a costume that made me move physically differently. I didn't move like myself all those things took away from myself and allowed me to maybe I'm being literal, but feel quite like someone else, and that's a wonderful feeling when you can abandon your conditioning and open up to another experience. You know, I can be you can be you or I can be you. I can imagine your experience, and it's not just about empathy. It's really about challenging this idea that we're fixed personality to am. I think ultimately, I'm like position events actor, as you know, the person, that's, you know, in front of a campfire telling the story, even though it's not always about stories, but through their experience people, watch them and share that experience. And that's why. Like a movie like and goes so much because it is about perception. And if you are with him with that very subjective camera with all those close ups with all those sequences where you're just with him walking around or you're with him painting. It. Takes you to another way of thinking. And I think that that's what keeps us alive shadow of the vampire is one of my favorite movies ever. I love it. Big state. It's true. What am I recommend it to people all the time? It's one that I try to keep alive because I I love it. But also every time I hear nails. Oh, yeah. When I have long Bill someone's near me, I just shoot right to that. And I got so good that movie. So good, and you. Did I mail it? Oh. Everything that was the that for me is it's just it's say, it's one of my favorites. But also every time I see you do anything else. A little part of my brain wants you to be knows for auto. And I which is ideal for the Florida project was also knows for auto in the sunlight, just painting. But no, it's it's one of those it felt like you were having an incredible time. And I was having fun with you. I get excited I love. But I'm sorry. It's great. Masks again this. He has a theme. No, no, no, no, no. I'm gonna go in a different direction. How except the champ except the unbidden chance. Okay. You got involved in theater? Would you call it? Experimental theater. I would for lack of better word. Yeah. I wish there was a better word, but. Documentarian looking for a better. Yeah. That's true. Nonfiction. Phil. Yup. Of but you came out of Stater. And I'm sure number of interesting experiences already on stage and working with a group where you working with almost a repertory you don't group, and then you get hired for your first moving and you spend three months on location in making this movie. Right. This gargantuan movie. Well now. Now part of lower and you even narrated the documentary. I says I'm speaking of Heaven's Gate. Right. And at the end of that three months, you're let go and you're part is cut from the movie. I can't imagine. What that feels like? Well. No, I it was well, I was fired from that movie because we were sitting in a lighting setup for eight hours, and I would shooting a lot and I had a good relationship with everyone and. I laughed at a joke. And it was just the wrong time things were so fancier. They said step out. And that was it. But that was there was a lot of tension on that movie. I mean, I had a great time. And it was really it was really exciting. But it was strange because in the first day, I think we got a week behind because Michael Jamuna was developing this thing in in the way that the studio wasn't quite down with. He was created. No material all the time. I was basically unscripted extra extra and he started putting me in scenes and things it didn't really cut me out. I could if we watch it if we sat, and we watch the movie I can show you where I am because I'm peppered all through it. The new drinking game the new drink look. Just look drunk. There. But yeah, it was it was a humiliating thing. But on the other hand, I was supposed to only go out there for two weeks, and then go back to theater and then come back for like another two weeks will when I got there. I didn't have an agent or anything they just caught cast me from Saint me at the theater. I they said guess what you're not on this thing called the daily contract and more. They ripped it up. And they said you're on a weekly, and we're going to keep you as long as we'd like because this is in you wouldn't argue with that I had just one big movie with and they were like you're lucky to be here. You know lucky you, so, but that created a problem with theater, so it was a mixed blessing. When I got fired. I was then back with my colleagues with the people that I my life really was with. So while it was humiliating that my foray into the professional world was kind of stunted there. I also remember being happy at that. Okay. I'm I'm going home. I'm going home to do work. What I say the mind boggling, then that was mind boggling at once film top to bottom, and it was a wonderful experience in. They were doing wonderful things. It's you know, it just got off track. Yeah. And also somewhere, you know, it's famously. Was relevancy in some what what people remember is that it sunk is studio and. In those days. You know, it was. I don't know a sink or swim immediately. And they really hold it. They didn't even give it a chance, and it became a whipping boy. So even though personally I was in a hurt by that experience. I don't gloat at all. Because I he was doing something interesting and from a financial standpoint, I get it. I get it. He was putting resources at risk and he was being low irresponsible. But he was also. Trying to make a great movie. So I I had a lot of respect for him. And I wouldn't call it a strikeout it has too many good things in it. Yeah. And and you know, he could be rough and she could be demanding. And it could be a perfectionist on all those things. But there were also he was very talented. So I can't I can't I can't you know, I got a. You know, I got a foot both camps on that. Yeah. Well, that's a hell of a baptism of fire. That's an interesting note to be fair. I mean, that's that. Really? That was my first like studio experience there that was a time where people were making films. So I I was involved in you know. Small films downtown at that time, they weren't professional, but they were still interesting. So it's not like what it sounds like, you don't know. Accept the the the the lunch breaks pet. You know, the thing that I remembered that really shocked me, and this was interesting when I got there. I was working in this downtown theater. And then I got there and everybody when they were hanging out they were talking about their houses and their careers and their horses and their webs when I was at home people were talking about literature. It was a different culture young as my entered doctrine to kind of. Professionalism and a lifestyle thing that was very stamped by Hollywood. Yeah. Well, it is a company town. And there's no mistaking. Yeah. And more than a couple of days. He catch onto that. Unlike when I'm here, but I wouldn't wanna live here where do you live? I live in New York. I'm not there very much. And I also live in Rome because I married in talian smart, man. I'm talian. America tahiliani. I like it. I didn't read you have dual citizenship. Now through her through her. You gotta oh, yeah. See my husband we've gotten him his green card. But now, he's gotta pay up. Like what about me from the U K? He's from you slice. Excuse me. Please talk to the Queen. And hurry this up. I wanna have to what do we think? Brexit. Let's. I just I just spent a month back there in was in friends and family and. He then you start getting more regular work in movies. I did but still my identity was not as a movie actor at that point didn't happen for very long time. Would you say the game changer? Many ways was platoon. Yes. I mean, I think so because that was the first film that was a popular and critical success and had an international. You know, was was successful internationally. But there were there were baby steps there were other steps that you know, contributed streets of fire. The first the film was not a success, but I got some attention for that. People started asking me to come in to see that for work because you got to remember, I'm working at a little theater. That's what I do. Yeah. I'm I don't have an agent and a manager and all that for quite some time now. Now. So from Kathryn Bigelow 's first movie, the loveless, I Walter Hill's saw a look with of me on the motorcycle. And of course, gas me as much. And so that had that put me on my way, and then to live in Diana lay was very important because while at the time that was not a huge success either. It was a film that was very much admired by filmmakers. Yeah. So I know you can kind of trace that Oliver Stone and Martin Scorsese both were aware for me from that movie. So that's a good thing. You know, it's all you know, success and failures, you know, all you never know tribute. You never know where that line going never know. And which is why? As is obvious. All ready. You're open to all experience young. And and you hope it leads to other good. I tried to avoid bad. Your dad. I am how grandfather. That's why I only because it's so there is a whole other aspect of being that you're an actor your gypsy. You know, and you have my God we're looking over. And it's like you have films all over the world you have worked with what feels like everybody, and and then you sort of. But then there's the other part of your life that is your life like talking about you're saying with the theater that was like home, but we were gypsies. And for example, my my son grew up in that company. And I think he's about a four and because he had lots of mothers and fathers and lots of different models to sample from. And it was very diverse group. So. African Bravo for that. Hillary Clinton, quote is right. Yeah. Taken village, really guns. And I've my son's proof of that. Because more tolerance martyr person you want to make. Yeah. I always traveling a lot. I I maybe it's because they grew up in the midwest. I knew that was a big world out there. But but that to always fascinates me. You talked to someone you talked to someone from a place like where you grew up, and, you know, from quite a young age that you can't live there forever. And that to me is so interesting to just sort of a lot of my friends from the time they were eleven twelve years old. They said, I know I can't live here forever. And that's I don't know that I thought that. I just I cannot honestly say that I felt like I wasn't with my. Yeah. I'm not sure fund my people yet. Maybe I'm looking for them through these movies. Maybe the problem is me. But you know, I mean, that's that's a classic. You know, adolescent growing up trying to find them out his identity, but I think that was very strong when I was growing up. I'm going to ask you a interview type question, we always have a conversation on what's the best location? You've ever been on. And what's the worst location? And who do you hate? Okay. Get warmed up the best location. That's so hard to say. But one thing that pops in my mind, I did a movie very little seen movie with director Mark Pepple was probably better known as a screenwriter. We worked with Bertolucci worked with. He as a young man, he wrote a lot of beautiful screenplays did a movie called victory based on the Joseph Conrad novel, and we shot in Malaysia, Indonesia. And Germany, and I remember it. We were on. We went on a period ship. Some of the time, and I'd just climb over the side. We'd be going to a an island location that you can only reach by ship. We'd be in this period shift by being my wardrobe and I'd stripped down to you know, underwear I'd go down the side. I'd swim to the island. They'd make me with my costume there. And we'd found we were living a life that was a tropical island life shooting. A film. In an area that was basically uninhabited, and it was just thrilling because you're out of the difference between the living and the fiction of the story was there was very little that was blurred. And it was so exciting, and it was such beautiful area. And so I love that. I love that when you're on location, and you create a new experience in that helps of course, inform the. Everything else doing. So that's not a great answer for best location. But it's a it's a wonderful and the worst. I'd say the worst is probably I don't like working so much in the studio. Green screen when your show up. You've got a coffee mug within on that can be pretty dead. Okay. We kicked off those two boxes and we'll go back to just talk. I don't care. But I did I. I am curious about the film that you made in Auschwitz. Well, that was a great experience. And I am thinking about lately because Arnold hopeless. The producer recently has to weigh. And he was also a producer on platoon and other films as well. But those are two films that I made with him. We I think we were basically the first film to film entirely. On location in heck meekly, we filmed in ocean at Auschwitz, but most of it was filmed in Birkenau. And this is pre wall falling Poland, and it was tough and Burke amount would they it's like, they padlock the place at lunch. I could. I'd wander around, and you could still find person effects the in the grass, she you know, it's such a evil lace. You couldn't contacted emotionally hit only duet story. But. Of course. And there were moments where you just look at a piece of land. And you'd see a tree that was you knew was old enough to have witnessed one went on there. And it was chilling. But it's so far away from you. So far from your experience that it was difficult to grasp, but of course, shooting in the real place. Really rooted the experience. Also, we had like people that were both. Prisoners dinner and also people that work there, and they were having reunions by elderly now, and they they were sharing stories. The movie was based on the story of. Vessel Mamata boxer. A Greek Jew who was synthetic Schwartz, and he survived by basically catching the attention of the commandant because he was good boxer and just for entertainment, they'd have the inmates walks and the commandant really liked him. So he got preferential treatment. So you had this horrible situation a moral dilemma where you can't begrudge the guy find his way to survive. But at the same time, he it he couldn't extend those privileges to his friends and his family. So he was that he was basically taking favorites from the people that were killing his people. So it was an interesting. Story and and didn't get a huge release. I think it was admired by some people very much, but it did really habits day made by Robert young Wease. Great, great filmmaker. And I I'd love to work with him. I don't wanna hog question department here. No, it's. Say it's overwhelming, the number of movies you've made and the locations and the actors and everything else and trying to to we have trouble remembering all of it. I don't know how you do in the movies and the place that have done my life. I'm starting to realize are the only way I remember. Sure. Sure. Sure. It's really funny because if you say movie, I may not remember all the editions. I'm not Jane bring out all the anecdotes about the film and all that. But I do remember what was going on in my personal life has to share. That's only it's a marker. We realize we didn't name. The film is called triumph of this idea. Young trying to guess front for the spirit except for the actors working on it who were stuck at the camps. Not so much triumph of the spirit. But yes, it was tough hard before that film, I presume you had to learn I did and I had I had a world class trainer teddy. Atlas who worked with custom motto when he was worked with custom out of the famous drain. You know of Mike Tyson and many others. And he he was fantastic. So sort of like the painting in Van Gogh boxing was essential to finding the key of the character of the of the story. But that's one of the things. I find fascinating about an actress like, oh, yeah. Well, you learn things you learn things. And when you learn something you become a new person now because you you have a different sensibility. You have different you're attracted to different things. And I love that in and it not only does it's not a, you know, not only does it broadened you. But it also once again makes you flexible because I think it's we get stuck. We can't you know, we're conditioned to really. I don't know culturally where all about productivity in reason. And you know, the truth is very far away from that. But the truth is what's going to make us stay alive and awake. So in these taking on different stories in different roles. I think it always challenges your thinking and wakes you up wakes you up. I mean. When you see a film, that's very far away from you. But it, but it touches you you start imagining yourself in that situation, and if makes you kinder and more thoughtful towards other people and with your Antea self and also makes you feel more equanimity and makes you except a little bit more are in a situation. Now, basically, we're all dying. Let's stay alive on her life with a certain kind of Shuhada the intention tension and. And. Consciousness rather than trying to our lessons. Well, we had one artist friend, we visited one day in his studio. And he said he had AMIS brush. Well along. Should go ahead. Just goes you work on this Bush, just tab. I was scared to death. I was I was literally I was dumbstruck. I didn't have the nerve to touch. His canvas said, I can paint over it. Or there's nothing here. Brunen filing, dab dot. Yeah. That is the band painted out. We will never know shooting. When I'm thanks Julian Schnabel, the director of king of bathrobes taught me because he taught me how to paint he said, there's no such thing as bad, Mark. And he made me see painting as making Mark see song. Eight taught me how to paint the light. I learned so much from him. Another dumb question. Have you continued painting? I haven't I haven't read. It's a practical thing that what free time. Do you have you may as team movies and hear what time do you have for this? It's I like working with oil you really need a studio. Yes. I don't wanna be a dilettante. You're now if I going to do I really want to do it that was perfect condition for really concentrating on I had a friend recently who saw the movie, and he said, you know, I was telling you that I learned Bank that I was you know. With no judgment of how skillful or anything. I said. Yes, I was painting. He said that was great. I said I post shoes. Basically, I painted them in real time. I got a lot of help. But allow coaching and a lot of preparation before. But I and he said, wow. Would you come and paint me? He's one of my oldest friends, and I said. I don't think. So he said, please, please. Really? I'd really love you to do a portrait of night. And I hope he loses my phone. Basically. I'm out of it. Now. I'm yes. Hard to sustain because my concentration, you know, the movie changed me, and I'll probably never look at painting the same way. And I I've learned certain things about perception and making art that I in a more articulate now than they were before. But the truth is. Yeah. Take that away. And I'm not sure I'm not sure I want to send kind of confidence of the same kind of clarity. And I found that's true. Generally, something often ask questions, you know. Oh, you you talked about inhabiting roles. Do they stay with you that sort of thing it truth is, of course, they stay with you because that's an experience that interest your subconscious and certain things stay with you because twelve hours a day life. Yeah. If you're playing basketball player, you you you're going to be thinking about basketball for a while. But. You know, the truth is when the character's make comes is created out of action. It's created situation. When those one of those things go away, they aren't it's not as easy to sustain. I would think. You work with so many top notch directors and you've worked with some repeatedly. Yes. Sort of most curious to ask you about is, Wes Anderson. Okay. That's from what I understand. He creates a unique environment. What he's shooting. No, I've I've worked with them. Three times two times men on animation. All right. So three, but banned mation not do. It's different devalue it, but I'm sitting in the studio. It's very that's fantastic fantastic. Mr fox. On both the films that I did with him. My my function was quite different. And he did have a different approach. But the one thing about west is he's very precise. And he sees things and. I I remember seeing a Lou. Simple stick. Stick figure kind of. Animated. Whether you call it storyboards story board or. Grand Budapest hotel. It was the movie it's like released this. At the budget release this tastic, and he did all the voices. He told me he said some of the actors deal wanna see this because they said oh God. I wanna hear you doing my tax you now. I don't want to see this. You know, I've got to find it for me. I loved it. I thought okay. It's I've got the structure now, we can do it. And the doing the contact that quality of being there is what I love. And this this notion of of you know, it makes me think of actually Van Gogh. He said, he's he's to say, I don't invent the picture. I find it in nature and just after free it, which is a beautiful thing. Yeah. So Wes gives you a beautiful world gives you beautiful detail. And then you enter it. I also think of. I'm David Lynch. You know, some terms you go into get a costume, and as of rack of things, and you're trying on staff, and you say, maybe this maybe that David Lynch brought me a constant one hangar and said here it is. And it was perfect. He gave me the perfect setup. That's where you want from a director. You want a perfect setup. You want the world made. And then when you enter you know, what you have to do. It's a when it's always that way. It's a it's a pleasure when there's someone with a very clear vision. Yeah. And some people that sounds dead name like, well, then what do you do? What do you do you do right here? And there's nothing more beautiful. And it always changes it always changes in the doing. And so when they give you a beautiful setup like that you can live you can live and not be so burdened by choices and conscious decisions, you can really get into the flow of things. And if you stray from what they had in mind, Newt you gently toward I'm sure or or he may have a moment where he says God, this is better than I thought let's go that way. It's not like it's rigid. But he's. West really sees it. And then. Does it gets the people and applies applies. You've done a couple of couple of movies in motion capture. Wearing motion capture. Yes. What is that? Like. Looks super comfortable, and it's just not even a delight for John carber. I was I was on like stilts this high. And been can't be camera on my back and the dots and the ridiculous unflattering, you know, Mushin capsule apps you in the desert for practically five months, all my. And then when they when the review comes out someone says, you know, ours carcass voiced by Willem Dafoe. How did I thought? Okay. Oh how movies? They don't and they don't they don't have to. I don't know how cards made but I can still drive in. It can get me someplace. But what's that? Like, it's. Pretending it's task. It's task. It's it's challenge. You know, we used to play basketball on stilts to try to get good with them. You know, I like it. I mean, I I'm like doing structured actions and having something come out of it. It's. Sometimes I've even I've said I feel more like a dancer than an actor because I really believe in the wisdom of the body. And I think I think all things emotional psychological from out of action in home out of applying yourself to doing things that doing actor actor do were. How old is your son? How old is probably thirty seven. Okay. I'm asking because. Me somewhere around that. He's four years older than me. He's thirty six. I'm good at math thirty six. Okay. Let's go with that. But the reason I ask is because it's always interesting to me, you almost always here actor say, I made a film. So my kid could see it or or. What would I thinking of? Get it. But I never. Here. I care, but that's not why do. Fighter bigger fish to fry wary about that. Think that was cool though, having you in spider man, doing things like that you grew up on movie sets the app around the theater's. So everything was cool. Yeah. Maybe that's why didn't need to do it for him. Because he was always pretty around my stuff. So we was me. I was him. We're family. I don't have to do. For. Tell us about your Pixar experience. Picks is great. I mean, I can. For example. Well, it's different because John Carter was one thing. And finding nemo was a mother finding nemo. Andrew Stanton is just fantastic to work with. And basically since you're voicing things you'd go in there, and you just bang away. All these different variations just to give them material to work with because they're animating you aren't animating to something that's already drawn doing the first year doing the first draft. And then there's lots of drafts after that. But he was a genius at being in the room and just giving you direction to put it on its head. Do it sideways. Do it in all these different ways. And was really fun. It was like a game of call and response. And he was you know, tireless in variety he could find and Pixar as a place was just amazing because everybody was turned on a do. Incredible research and development in oh, they they test things a lot among themselves is lots of collaboration. Everybody's happy. They have the resources to do what they need to do. And then later. John card is different since that's live action. That's very different. But it's still Andrew Stanton, and those qualities I talked about he was also very very that was present very much the is directing for the live action stuff. Because sometimes it sounds rather coal when you hear about somebody voicing for animated, each it's fun, and you know, because because of this variation your free, you know, all every everything goes to one thing, you know, it's like if you if I lose my legs. My my lose my legs. My arms are going to get really strong. Now. I'm just voice, I'm just foist. So everything goes into and also you can you can play you can have you can make mistakes. You can do anything. You know? It's it's free. Yeah. So I'm like doing voice stuff. What was it? Like the first time we got a call from the Simpson. The simpsons. Simpson's was you know, I must admit I don't watch TV for longtime. But when I was watching TV Simpson. Just incredible. And it remained a kind of uncorruptible for a long long time. And I'm sure it still is. It's just you know, that was that was just fun. There was a little bit of notch in your belt because it was an honored part of that. As far as real work. I mean, you go in there. And it's it's like Rafe what you do. But I was happy that they called. Yeah, culture. That's right. Even there certain pop culture things that you can always say, well, it's it was so wonderful that you have this popular and mation with that kind of drawing that was so subversive in many ways. State that way. Your love is the term you like to say daddy is your lovely team is giving us the hook. So I think we have to set you free. So another time we'll talk about the last temptation of Christ and pry, baby. Okay. Flipped over four thousand other films that you have done that. We would go to it's wonderful talk to you. Because our ticket awful passion. I'm not feeling very articulate. But. Firearm. Jodi. Okay. Are you know, you're not entertaining? This is what's more important? Sound like all of our family in New York perfect. Ronal weldon. Okay, Jesse where do people find you are at Leonard Maltin? I'm at Jesse Maltin on Twitter and Instagram. You can go to Leonard Maltin dot com for movie, your views and book ground ups and all kinds of good stuff. And you can see will go and attorneys gate directed by Julian Schnabel on your TV on a big screen on your phone on wherever you look you will find a Willem Dafoe current to. Oh, yes. Awful. We forget. Oh, yes, right here. My pleasure. Today's episode of Maltin on movies is brought to you by legion m the world's first fan owned entertainment company. If you love movies as much as we do why not only piece of them. Find out more at WWW dot legion m dot com.

Van Gogh Willem Defoe director New York Jesse Maltin Merman Van Gogh basketball Julian Schnabel Florida Mark Pepple Wes Anderson Auschwitz Wisconsin Leonard Maltin Pixar Andrew Stanton Wooster group Simpson Holland
WWE Invasion

83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

WWE Invasion

"Hey It's Conrad Thompson and you're listening to eighty three weeks with Eric Bischoff Eric. What's going on man? How are you on my brain's fried here? I'm just got moved into our temporary. Housing here and Stamford Connecticut tried to figure out the technology and getting my Internet setup so the view the show. It's it's been an overwhelming morning but good to go well. We're excited that you're good together because we're going to do something that is <hes>. I don't know probably are most requested thing we've ever had. We're going to sit down and watch the invasion paper view from July twenty seconds two thousand one so yeah today's exact date all the way back in two thousand one of course. We know this point W._C._W.. Is No more N._C._W.. Is No more it is a one horse race at this point. This is the show that a lot of people have looked bored to for a long time. It's a dream pay per view to my surprise. You've never actually seen this show. No I never have I'm going through the time line and I think we've touched on this once or twice before in passing but it occurred to me when I'm looking at the bates here and kind of reflecting back this might have banned the pay per view where originally J._R. called me asked me if I was interested in possibly coming doings T._v. for W._W._e.. In early July <hes> up two thousand one and because I wasn't sure what the storylines were wasn't sure what they had in mind. J._R. couldn't give give me an yield detail and because I have a house or family and friends come in from all over the country I declined and actually turned down the opportunity and now looking back. I'm guessing I don't know this but I'm guessing it was probably had something to do with this paper view and this storyline well. I'm sure that <hes> this'll be a unique exercise. We got lots of great feedback when we sat down and we watch that old Monday night raw the same night that you guys <hes> put title on Bill Goldberg The W._W._f.. Presented something a little different <hes> at the end of the show that was the reveal that it was actually the undertaker dressed up as Kane and we were on a collision course then for highway to hell the theme for Summer Slam Nineteen Ninety eight with the undertaker and stone cold and since then they've even made an action figure I mean since you're not covered that they've rolled out an action figure of of Kane's rest up or the entertainer dressed up like Kane but I think a lot of our listeners really doug you sort of giving your two cents on the product in Nineteen Ninety Eight. What was the feedback you got from that episode? You know it was very positive. <hes> it was definitely there. Were there was a lot of interests and I think it is is <hes> unusual for me to cover the W._w._f.. Product at that time so <hes> because it was unique and we had never done it before it got a lot of you know good good good feedback. Well hopefully you guys are going to dig what we're doing today if you haven't already fire up your W._W._e.. Network Doc we're doing this watch along style. You can enjoy the show with Eric. Who's going to watch it for the very first time it's two hours and forty minutes long <hes> it's under your your vault section? You can look under pay per view W._w._f.. Two thousand one and it's July a lot twenty-second two thousand one eric. This is going to be full man. I gotTa Tell You I'm excited to do this with you because I know that you've never seen it and we took the social media and let fans ask questions so at various points throughout the show. I'll check back in the social ocean radio. Pull a question or two and let fan sort of pick your brain okay first things first before we get started today. 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Dot com slash eighty three weeks now forced this is subject to credit approval rating clued glued half a percent auto pay discount terms and conditions apply and offers are subject to change without notice visit livestream dot com slash eighty three weeks for more information so fired up up W._W._e.. Network Two thousand one July twenty second Eric's going to give us a countdown Eric. What will the countdown sound like ahead of the Hound House while you'll say each she ne- some Japanese one-two-three all right all right good luck guys? I hope this works Eric. Whenever you're ready? We'll go ahead and get this thing fired up he g when he son and we're off. The signature here at the time looks pretty familiar. They use this one for a long time. This was like the classic open. I guess we should give everybody the backstory. You probably know what we're talking about here. <hes> the W._W._f.. has now been invaded by W._C._W.. and E C W it was revealed at the very last nitro that the McMahon who actually purchased W._C._W.. was in fact Shane McMahon and we're off to the racists here now because Stephanie McMahon has taken over e C W and in early July things are moving pretty quickly and and <hes> we realize we've got an invasion on our hands and the A._C.. W wrinkle the something that I in particular was really excited about because they've even got Paul Heyman here so it feels kind of authentic especially compared to the w that'd be Saad which Ch- you admitted they've they've reached out to you here but you didn't know all the creative and at the time you have other things going on so it wasn't priority but I can't help but wonder how this mine of looked felt different if you were there there yeah I love this open by the way they did a fantastic job with us open using public domain footage from World War Two and and it's awesome yeah you know had been a little bit more forthcoming and I've said this before and I'll say it again you know full disclosure Janai J._R. and I are friends now. The passes the past. We've both got impressed all that but I've gotta tell you when J._R. called me he didn't he. He wasn't too excited about it. I think deep down inside. He was hoping that I would have passed on the opportunity and I did but I now just looking at this open. I kind of wish I would've been involved in it because it would have been really cool would've felt felt more authentic to to a degree yeah I mean it's definitely a cool open this era. I think they're using David Sahadi for a lot of their video packages. You worked with Sahadi a little bit T._N._a.. Didn't he I did I did and I love working with David. He's a very very creative guy. Very positive guy never worked with anybody that regardless of how much pressure he was under or how badly things were going at any given moment he was. He had a smile on his face. He's a solution problem solving kind of guy and he never let the pressure get to fund got to work with. That's something that we've never heard before but it is a name we hear all the time Cleveland Ohio Man. I think the night that they announced that Vince taken over w they were in Cleveland bidding the signs going nights W._b.. After New York right there in Times Square Bruce and I've talked about that restaurant and and that that business strategy a lot on something something to wrestle won't the idea was maybe why didn't work out. Check this out Lance Storm. It's GonNa try to be serious here for a minute and Mike Awesome. He's no longer the fat chick thriller. He's got himself a haircut and some real trunks two of the more or underrated W._C._w.. Performers and you think yeah I would particularly in the case of land storm. I think lance had a ton of potential that was never realized you know He. He was challenging because he had he had a very a unique type of charisma <hes>. I don't think he had a lot of depth as a character in other words. I don't think he could be comedic in any in any way he was kind of one dimensional but he was one dimensional very very powerful way so the character that he did have was was a strong character. I was a huge fan above those guys and they're going to be taken on edge and Christian here. Who We know are going to go on to become hall of Famers Kristen not there yet but obviously sleep? He's going to be there just probably waiting for the right time but man these guys would have huge singles careers and <hes> of course everybody knows about the tag team dominance they got started with and two <hes> of the legit great wrestlers from W._C._W.. You know Mike Awesome had a huge Ron A._C.. W and of course jumped ship over to W._C._W.. and WHO's one of my absolute famous favorite performance to watch and I don't think Lance storm ever have a bad match. I don't think I've ever seen a lance storm botch. There should be a good match here. Yeah I'm looking forward to it and this arguably was I think edge in Christians. If not their peak they were certainly you know on an upward <hes> trend in terms of their their professional arc so this this will be a good match. We should remind you that <hes> does a lot going on in this show but the big story of course is that W._C._W.. You had you know reached unbelievable heights lock in nineteen ninety eight. They were averaging over eight thousand fans for a half show which is a figure that no wrestling company in history whether it was w new Japan even at their peak at ever approached so even at the height of Hulkamania way back in the golden age of the nineteen eighties. Nobody was doing that but somehow the W._W._f.. Manages just to beat it when <hes> they get on the the Stone Cold Steve Austin training they get up to over ten thousand fans per house show and <hes> w._C._W.. Not to be outdone runs a consecutive string of like twenty three house show sellouts. I mean I sold out how show that would be you know headline news today and they were doing twenty three times in a row so unbelievable success for W._C._W.. And you know nineteen ninety ninety eight their average bar a was a point nine three for the paper views just two years later in two thousand. The average bar was point one seven so w._C._W.. Not Quite the company was happened seemingly overnight it just goes to show you and I guess we can talk about that and apply today as well. <hes> things can change pretty fast than wrestling business well any business in any form of entertainment whether it's music movies television across the board you name it. If it's if it's entertainment it's it's fickle you know <hes> staying on top. I've said this before becoming successful is relatively easy compared to staying successful. The real challenge is is being able able to maintain that success and and and manage it so that you don't have those dramatic upswings downturns in in in a rollercoaster in your business. It is challenging when you were <hes> out of the business here about two thousand one you're doing other things are how. What type of communication do you maintain with Hulk Hogan up fairly consistent? You know once sir twice a week we would check in but you know he wasn't talking about wrestling. I wasn't talking about wrestling so it was more you know family social. What are you up to what's going on? What's new type of thing just general conversation but not a lot of conversation about wrestling this is interesting to me because <hes> all the newsletters for saying time that he was sending feelers out which I mean this mine of totally different front had he been on W._C._W.? Side as well could in I don't you know I'm not even sure again. I haven't watched this. I've never watched it. I didn't watch it when it was live and and I haven't seen it subsequently subsequently but I'm not sure where Hulk Hogan was at whereas Rosette whether he was with W._W._e.. At the time or not so yeah I think had hulk been there on either side of the the invasion <hes> had I been there it it could have been not to put myself over. Certainly I know I'm not on Hulk Hogan's level but I think just in terms of the fans reaction to the W._c._w.. INVASION CON Sept- on on one side or the other had I been involvement on one side of the other it would have probably had a little bit more intensity to it a little bit more believability to it not looking at this crowded looks like they didn't have any trouble filling in the house and I'm sure the pay per view did well but you know when you when you don't have the top stars and when I say stars I mean the people that spent a lot of time on television and Mike is obviously wasn't in the ring but you know I I kinda represented that brand for five or six years in the eyes of most of the fans it it it would have been interesting. I'm Kinda pissed at myself not jump on board at this point well. It's it's a fantasy angle and <hes> you know I think a lot of people used to go to the grocery store with their mom and <hes> they run over to the newsstands and they'd see all these different you know after mags and they would have these fantasy matchups of the undertaker and staying Shawn Michaels and <hes> you know somebody from the W._C._W.. Rick Flair or whatever and so it's sort of fun to to look back at this us and and wonder what if and <hes> I think it gets a bad rap sometimes because the concept you know as what fans were were craving so much but I think if there is a criticism it would've been that you know maybe the the timing wasn't right just because they weren't able to secure all the players at the time of course a lot of the W._C._W.. Guys still had those Time Warner contracts so they were able to just sit home and and collect a check or <hes> accept less Bonnie and go back to work. I signed a deal. A lot of people are willing to sign up for well. It's not a deal. A lot of people are willing to sign up for number one and you can't blame them. No business decision financial decision and they made probably the decision there accountants lawyers wives and husbands were telling him to make the time but also I think there was just not a lot of confidence or security <hes> I in how they were going to be used or what ultimately <hes> that opportunity where would go in the long term so I understand it <hes> I agree with you though I think the timing was probably not right in terms of this concept really being able able to manifest to its potential no doubt about it. You didn't have staying. He didn't have Goldberg. You didn't have so many of the people that really legitimately were the faces of the come at least W._C._W.. At that time so definitely there were swimming upstream in that regard my golf. I'm going to the top rope here. Where would you <hes> you know? We haven't been a ton of time talking about Mike Awesome you know where would you rank his jump for Macy W. Two W._C._W.. In importance I and I'm not saying that to be funny. I mean clearly no. It's not you know Hogan's jump. We know it's not Scott Hall or Kevin Nash But at the time he was these w world champion and even though you weren't the world's biggest A._C.. W. Fan that's kind of a big coup to get their champion right. I am sure it was to to a lot of fans <hes> again. It's not that I wanna be really clear. 'cause I know when we talk about this stuff <hes> i. I'm sure I give a lot of people the impression that I wasn't e C W fans not that. I wasn't a fan of C._W.. It's just said I didn't watch it and I wasn't familiar with it because it wasn't available to me and I wasn't focused on it so I didn't really know where Michael Awesome was on the food chain in e c w because again I just wasn't really watching the product elect and it's not because I wasn't a fan of it. It's just because I wasn't watching it. I had my own stuff to worry about in watching or trying to find W wasn't high on my list of things to do on any given week so I you know it's hard for me to to rate you know where awesome was in regard to this the jump and what it meant because I didn't really know how to quantify qualify his importance in eastern w at the time but I can tell you that Mike was a very consistent <hes> performer he was an easy to work with <hes> he was committed to whatever he was doing and and extremely professional and I think in that regard anytime you you have an opportunity where others came over from U._C. W._f._l.. Into that sin category they were all unique and they're all different you know these are big personalities and great performers and they'll have their own unique characteristics quirks both in the ring and out of the ring but Mike was a you know he was a steady as she go as he goes Kinda Guy. You could just always depend on them. You know we're talking about July two thousand one. You didn't watch the pay-per-view where you keeping up with anything happened in wrestling at this point or you totally divorced from it. No I was totally divorced from it. I I went through a period so you don't have to the the W._C._W.. <hes> sale the fusion media deal with Turner Broadcasting fell apart. I you know not because I was emotional about it or my feelings. Were hurt or anything like that. It was just you know all right this. This business is now in my rear view mirror. What do I do next? How do I take what I've learned? Take the experience I've had good and bad and bridge that into new opportunities entities there was no reason for me to keep looking my rear view mirror because I didn't think <hes> there was ever going to be an opportunity for me to get back in the business. There was only one place to work at this point in two thousand one that was the W._w._f.. <hes> uh aside from the call from J._R.. which was fairly halfhearted attempt to judge my interest <hes>? I didn't really believe there was any opportunity for me to really get back to the business so I was more focused on going forward looking backward. I know this sounds weird and I. It's something we don't normally talk about a lot but I think your son was probably like sixteen or seventeen years old when this is happening. Is he still watching wrestling at this point. Does he say Hey Dad. GotTa see this or did you hear or Garrett not really in the wrestling at this point no he was and he was watching it. I would say not not as much as he did obviously when that was involved the W._C._W.. And he was backstage and a lot of the vents knew a lot of the guys <hes> but he was watching it but he also knew that I was like I said I was moving forward. I wasn't talking about wrestling. I wasn't just wasn't just wasn't a part of my life so when he did watch it heated really bring it up to be much. I think that's gotTa be you know as a fan list thing that this and this might not make sense to you but I'm sure it does a lot of listeners. It's gotta be Weird Like See Essentially Your Dad's creation played out here on camera and you're GonNa Watch it in the other room and then like not talk about it to him yeah. I guess it would be a little bit like I've never experienced this but I'm going to try to imagine what it would be like a little bit like getting divorced and the kids have spending spend a weekend with dad and then spend the next weekend with mom and so you don't come back and say hey guess what I did this great analogy. I love it yeah. It was probably like probably more like that so we see <hes> William Regal here talking talking to Vince McMahon and the first match came to the end edge and Christian got the win over Mike Awesome and Lance Storm <hes> Lance storm is the guy yeah. This is what we're doing next on this invasion pay per view a battle of the referees Nick Patrick Versus Hefner Abner and if you're watching along you can see the look on Nick Patrick's face at its classic classic wrestler face. You know scrunched up lips very stern look. Earl Earl was funny character man I I. I liked worker with real the the reason I'm bringing up Lance storm again. He's the guy who really kicks off the invasion and late May I think they're Tacoma Washington. I think this right and <hes> he slides in the ring and her all and throws the super kick and there's the whole hey he's not supposed to be here. What's he doing here? I don't know why would I found that a little weird like of all the guy and don't get me wrong. I Love Lance Storm. We we can't say enough nice things about him here on the show I don't necessarily I didn't normally like look all that's Mr W._c._w.. Force we know that's what we've seen in most recently but I mean at that point in my wrestling Phantom. I associated him as much with A._B._C. W as I did W._C._W.. At physically he was he was very low profile talent and again not not has nothing to do with his talents or is abilities but timing is what probably led to this statement more within anything but he was a very low profile talent in W._C._W.. Hadn't been there very long and while he wasn't W._C._W.. He certainly wasn't involved in anything that I would consider to be really high profile so it is a unique choice in some regards but I think in in other regards they were looking at him in terms of his work rate in his ability in the ring and when you look at all the available W._C._W.. Talent I mean by that. I mean talent that was available to W._W._f.. At the time at this time <hes> probably Lance had some of the best work rate of download available to me if you're going to sort of have a a first shot across the bow if it's with more I yeah I guess we'll say heritage W._C._W.. Character whether that's Booker T. or that stop in Dallas page. I think those Guy I think sting Goldberg those guys you know those are W._C._W.. Through and through maybe not so much us with Lance storm so he go. We've got <hes> Mick Foley out here. He's all set to <hes> referee this referee match. He comes out wearing a jacket that I think he made himself up if he didn't it sure looks like it did. It's awesome make us such a character in every way. What do you think look at look at Nick Patrick coming out just as what a character he's so serious? Charles Robinson Awesome and Charles Robinson looks exactly the same today is he did in two thousand some one. I don't know if you saw but <hes> this last week. <hes> the Internet melted down over this new face APP and Charles Robinson posted his face APP and he clearly gets. It's the joke we've been telling here on the show because his before and after photo were the exact same. I want whatever he drinks well. I don't know that you do earl earl. The Pearl Hab ner. They look serious erlichs really he's. He's INTAS. This is silly as hell. This is highly entertaining. It's this is the second match on the invasion Asian pay-per-view but it does feel like you know of all the dream masters you could put together the ones the fans are clamoring to Naacp pasture or hefner and earl takes a slap to the Facie Z. selling a boot to the midsection and that takes Patrick back into the corner boots by Hefner into the midsection. Nick Patrick is down Hafner is going Crazy Mick Foley there to make sure this as a clean battle as hefner Gaza by the boots cover one two oh and a kick out patrick just about las it here and now earl is just going back. Shit Crazy Patrick reverses at now is Patrick on top using his weight advantage fiery rights to the side the head of happier and now a reversal gets a back putting boots to Nick Patrick Patrick is against the ropes out goes have near Patrick grabs it by the belt throws up to the ropes and we've got a break in the action. We're going to have a referee battle. Battle Royale here is able to to get this. It looks like a hurt zebras here in rig apron. Oh my goodness Patrick again putting the boosts earl hefner abner in the classic Black Can White Stripes Nick Patrick at a white shirt polo kind of gimmick looks ridiculous but there you go oh Nice right-hand Earl heppner firing back big for up to the side of the face and again heavier pudding the boots now goes up to the second rope right hand another right hand another right hand three four five six seven right hands. Nick Patrick is in a world of trouble here as Mick Foley looks on now Nick Patrick's doubles down. He's on his knees trying to get his wits about him. Fires back with a clubbing forearm to the shoulder blades and off the ropes nice slide out goes hefner on the Matt and other W._C._w.. She w referees including Charles Robinson. How the hell did they ever hire him after that move anyway the W._C._W.? Referees putting the boots or Hefner and the zebras along with Mick Foley coming to make the save. That's Hefner's kid what the hell all Brian Hefner gets thrown now Foley taking control here teddy long in the middle of things here trying to keep control Mick Foley throwing hefner back into the ring medieval bothered a tie shoes. Are you trying out for that new smackdown announced job here tomorrow night. Just get excited job. It was took me back entre. ooh I shoulder block tackle down going to count three count. Did he get it. He got it. He got it. Earl hevner defeats Nick Patrick definitely currently the highlight of real heavy DESCR now maybe not I think the bread heart was highlighting. He's still living off that. He's still signing autographs to this day because of that next up. We're going to have have a <hes> A match for the tag titles the W._e._f.. Tag Jam sources the W._C._W.. Tag Champs which in theory seems like a homerun idea. It's going to be the A._P._A.. For Bradshaw in there with Chuck Palumbo and Sean O'hare before get there though they patrick has a few words from Raleigh come on NICK DOT COM out don't take any craft from just knock him out. Nick Patrick's not in a spot in his life where you can complain about fast cancer slow counts as we know no really is. No we go. I knew it was going to happen down. Goes Patrick Down Goes Patrick. My favorite is there's a sign across Harkin Hamm says we heart nick fully nick. That's a weird way to abbreviate. Nicole and Patrick is now getting taste of Mr Succo. That's what he called it right. I got I in fact that was on the receiving end of that once or twice myself. I was going to ask if you had to take Mr Soko. Did you get Yup J._R.. I home before that there were two versions of the mandible claw. There's the versions where he actually puts his fingers in your mouth and then the version where he just falls the fingers in front of your mouth sort of take care of you. Did you get the the work in Mr Soko or the real Mr Soccer. I got the work Mr Soccer. Thank goodness. What are we watching here? This is porn. No this is tough enough. which was I guess the first wrestling reality show and it was on M._t._v. where these guys were all vying for their spot in the W._w._f.? And we know maven would win and would go you want and eliminate. The undertaker from the royal rumble in January. Two in Atlanta us is really soul footnote but the man who helped spearhead c. t. e. and <hes> that entire study he came out of that which I think you know the he had a brief run the W._B._F.. And <hes> Chris Nowinski course but he was portrayed to be the first Harvard graduate in the history of the World Wrestling Federation but they go on to really <hes> spearhead what we know about concussions now he's the executive director of the Concussion Legacy Foundation so lots of good came out of that but then maybe some not so good. I think that's Josh Matthews I rose to prominence. Josh's nice calm busting balls sending your hate tweets me. Hey it's connor didn't miss come out of come up M._t._V. MTV as well absolutely tough enough signed deal any any and I mean look where he is today. Amazing he is the this is weird that he didn't win. It definitely should've worn but <hes> he got the last life I mean all I think arguably you could say he indeed did win. He's certainly what a heck of a career in a in a great talent. I mean really he was here MS was here in W._W._e.. What I team in two thousand two and he was a good talent? He was a solid talent but man. If you look at how far he's come he he really is quite amazing. He does a great great job. See The skit backstage age with <hes> the undertaker's wife and <hes> d'ambra. We've talked a lot about Deborah on some of the other programs but not a ton here with you and eighty three weeks. It was working with Deborah like yeah I get along with Deborah really well when when she's with Steve McMichael <hes> we we hung out quite a bit you know after the shows Deborah in my wife Laurie you know get along really well. She was really great to my kids <hes> she she and Genie Angle ingenuous very close to my family you know spent a lot of time together so I had a pretty good relationship with her and she was easy for me to work with we <hes> we've talked a little bit about <hes> Chuck Palumbo and Sean O'hare. I've always felt like Sean. O'hare could've been a much bigger star professional wrestling and clearly somebody thought that same thing they paired with Roddy Piper W._b._f.. YOU TO BE F- years after this and for whatever reason it never really took off sadly. He's no longer with us. What you think Sean O'hare was a bigger star? I it's hard to pinpoint right why someone never really breaks out to the to the level that all the other indications would lead you to believe they can and he had a great look he was tense. He was believable. I think if anything perhaps he just didn't have the range to really break out to the top star status you know if you look at top talent you know even today multidimensional talent they can be intense that could be serious there believable their work rate is great but their characters charisma their ability to to entertain you whether it be by being serious awesome threatening and intense or or when need be comedic or dramatic. You have to have that range in if you you've only got one year or two gears no matter how well you can perform in those gears if you don't have the ability to find that fifth year when needed or fourth year <hes> you're you're pretty limited and I think if anything that might have been the case with with chuck are excuse me Rashawn O'hare. I didn't get I didn't work with. Melot and when I did work with him it was pretty limited but that was my impression of then and even looking back now I feel the same way and there's a lot of talent that are like that you know to a degree. We're talking about last storm. I I think the same kind of assessment could be made there as well amazing ability great look excellent work rate but only one or two years as a character in that becomes limiting always thought he had <hes> a main event style look you know he he had a tall. He had the bill he had the facials. Just had you know those things that now as you would say the intangibles you know the you look at Goldberg and he said well what made that gossip successful you know just based on look and you gotta think some of that could work in other areas but for whatever reason will shine o'hare and only got him so far and then he can do some very spectacular entering stuff the swan mom and things like that of course Chuck Palumbo going to have a much different experience here in the W._W._e.. With him and Billy Gunn <hes> they're going to be featured in a ton of story lines and have a lot of time here. Chuck Palumbo went on to have <hes> a pretty interesting crib believe he lives in San Diego serious serious car guy from from what I recall I think he ended up with a show on discovery <hes> or or one of those networks that specialize in custom custom cars are custom motorcycles kind of a big motor head and I believe he's still living in the San Diego area and a guy super cool guy really easy to be around Komo news time. Did you spend with Ron Simmons. You know a fair amount you know he was in W._C._W.. When I was in announced there and Ron always I don't want to say fun to be around but pleasant to be around? He was cordial he was he was using easy guy to work with <hes> Super Professional <hes> so I found myself when I did got up socialize backstage W._C._w.. When I I got there <hes> Ron was kind have always in the room where I was hanging out and Super Guy and and I liked working with them in W._W._e.? As well and still to this day I enjoy spending time with Ron when I bought into him on the road at conventions are autograph signings. Whatever we're doing a super guy cheinal hairs really going to work here? He does look any could bump great site suplex great great bump their Huda thought you know when you this match in two thousand one that the guy who's going to be the breakout star Bradshaw. I don't know that I would've picked him at this point as being that guy yeah it's it's interesting. That's one of the fascinating things about you know being in this industry. Is You know you see talented in. It's exciting you know because you see talent come in and maybe in the case of Bradshaw he'd been in the business for a long time. It wasn't like he was rookie by any stretch threat to the imagination but all of a sudden a character just finds his or her groove Steve Awesome the same could be said about Steve Austin you know he was studying Steve Austin W._C._w.. In in worked longtime before you even got to W._C._W.. Worked to W._C._W.. For a long time when e C W came into W._W._f.. W._W._e. whatever it was at the time as the ringmaster and just all of a sudden hit his group and and it just emerged as one of the top stars in the history the industry and that's the fun thing about being in this business is it can happen at any time. It's just a matter of a finding that character in and finding one that just in some of it is just tiny some of it is just good. Luck said this before before you can work as hard as you can. You can think about it. You could do everything you possibly can but if you're timing is off and the audience just isn't ready to accept that character you might not make it you know the rock same could be saved for the rock knock you know he just all of a sudden found his grew found that character found a way to get that audience to react it and just exploded onto the scene and it's that's one of the fun things about this business. I think I think one of the things that talent <hes> that's the sound too professorial here but you know what I think is one of these talent is keep in mind no matter how frustrating it may be at any given time in your career because you're not really hitting that groove just snow then on any given night you may find that moment across may react to it in that could be your stone Cold Steve Austin trajectory or rock trajectory or you know you you name it. You know there's a lot of guys including J._B._l.. Here that probably was filling like I'm okay this is this is big as I'm ever going to get until something happens in the light goes off in the audience reacts. It's fun fun to watch I should I'd say I've never experienced it myself but it's fun to watch well as we're waiting on. This double down here comes the hot tag to Ron Simmons Ted everybody up. How's your first week back in W._W._e.? In the big travel cross country may not quite the light change how it you yes I mean the drive was great. You know we did we covered about two thousand miles. Twelve states stopped in Minneapolis and visit family for tonight's that was great. <hes> the drive itself was was easy. You know just me Laurie in the dog in the truck with five eight U-haul Hall trailer with a little bit more than a close in our back and it was it was great. I felt like a college kid again. You know leaving home and going off to college. Getting here was interesting. You know going coming from living out in the middle of nowhere. I mean literally. If you ever came to my home in Wyoming sometime you it'll have to get out there but you sit out on our backpack and you're literally looking up. You're looking across the Buffalo Bill Cody Reservoir up the valley that literally leads right into Yellowstone National Park. It's a beautiful beautiful scenic view and we're on twenty two acres but the people around us all have big AAC region. There's no houses on it so it feels feels like you're on hundreds of acres indigo from that to in apartment downtown Stanford. It was an adjustment. I mean I literally to tell you the truth. We got in on Monday night late right and I was. I was pretty beat hours ready to get out of the truck after four or five days so we pulled up into the nicest Marriott that I could find downtown Stanford pulled in got into the room took. A shower went to bed woke up about five thirty in the morning took my dog out and we're literally downtown Stanford right in the heart of it took the dugout for a walk in it's like six o'clock in the morning now and I walk up the hotel and I get down to the sidewalk and cars are flying by me and people are beeping awards and garbage structure going by fifty miles an hour. I'm going holy crap. I am not in cody anymore because cody. I'd get up in the morning and Yeah my cup of coffee. I'd go out on the deck. Let the dog out like the noisiest thing I would here would be a bird flying by you know or or fly buzzing around my head. This is noisy as it was and is the amount of noise annoys from the traffic was like wow it's not like I haven't lived in a city before Lord. I lived in downtown Chicago when we were dating or living together so it's not like I haven't lived in the city before but it's been a long time but I gotTa tell well you know there's the good you know you give a little you give up a little and you get a little and to be able to walk out of our apartment now and let's see two blocks that way is a Sushi bar to box that way as a phenomenal nominal Italian restaurant two blocks that way is great Mexican restaurant. It's Kinda Nice Kinda dig it. I'm getting used to it. I'm GONNA look like Yokozuna by the time we do this next year but it's one A._p._A.. Get the win so <hes> Earl hefner got the win. Edging Christian got the way on. If you see a pattern here I was wondering if you had figured that he and I think most the people that cold coffee in the Sunday morning. Are you drinking cold coffee because I've been sitting here doing this podcast and get up and get a coffee. I wonder what this conversation with sound like today with Vincent Van and Chris Jericho probably a little different I would think so Jerko who is <hes> assuring Vince McMahon how much hates W._C._W.. how He'd never associate with Paul Heyman and then he talks about how ugly Paul Heyman is and <hes> the dirt sheets would say he's hanging on so thick and almost seems to be intended as swerve this with lots of <hes> hints? I guess that somebody is going to be jumping ship here next up. We've got Kidman and xbox and a non title clash for the cruiserweight a champion and the deputy fly heavyweight champion. They got all the matches. We've had on paper so far. This is the one that probably gets me. The most excited Kidman <hes> you know probably one of the more underutilized talents W._C._w.. C._W. and then had the big program with Hulk Hogan and I think it took a lot of people by surprise and everybody knows that Chon Waldman for a long time was the measuring stick in the B._F.. It's in the out there with a cinematic new talent and then he'd report back when he got backstage the sky legit or not so turns out. We're going to have a pretty good match here with Kidman and ex PA coming up. I'm looking forward to that. I mean I love Sean. Woman's matches and Billy Kidman is we've. We've covered him in a couple of the previous episodes of the last month or so. I think billy might have been at his physical peak. At this point. Look young shade looks. They're definitely Arthur. It's so fond go back in lost these things and I know we all look younger twenty years ago but it's just fascinated and go back and look at their characters and and the way they handle their characters twenty years ago as opposed to the way they handle now. There's talk about irony one or the other things after being here for a week my first week was more pouring tation meeting in different department heads and really understanding the kind of resources and everything that we have to work with so it's it's been a fascinating first week but I was sitting down and talking to Paul in his office last week and I I suppose I mean Paul I worked together in Nineteen eighty-seven in the Awa wow nineteen eighty-eight and you just have those moments where you flash back and you realize just how long and you know you've you've been associated with each other. It's fascinating to to go back and think about those things and look at those things but yeah Paul. I worked together with Vern Ganja nineteen eighty seven eighty eight. I think he was even into nineteen eighty-nine mistaken okay. Can you work with a guy by the name of Rob Russell. I don't know if you've ever heard that name before but Paul and rob were Awa primarily involved in live event promotion. I didn't know that did you know that see. We learn something every single episode. That's why here on eighty three weeks we do have the most knowledgeable fan base of any podcasts out there in in my opinion now you'd be a better judge since you host probably thirty or forty different podcast you probably the authority of the subject but in my humble opinion eighty or the most knowledgeable now no argument for me you know we get into the weeds ideology. Oh we talk about C._P._M.'s and advertising strategies and you know this lots of little inside baseball things about the business <music> of the professional wrestling business and the television business specifically that so many other shows don't really touch on it's more about the creative and this this is sort of fun to go back to show like this because we are just sorta talking about the creative if more so than the business so it's a little bit of a change of pace for us. Let me ask you cut right now you. Where were you as a fan in two thousand one? I know that you really got into it around nineteen ninety six. I believe or ninety seven was you're probably peak wrestling fandom but we're where was your head out here. In two thousand one I started a peter out a little bit and ninety nine but I was still watching and sort of the same in two thousand just a bit of a decline and then you know I was not going to miss the last nitro and <hes> I certainly watched that Wrestlemainia but after that sort of felt like you know the thrill was going I got so feel so in love with the Monday night wars and the competition and the back and forth and and it just didn't feel like there wasn't anything I really get excited about and then I heard about the W._C._W.. Invasion and <hes> I'll check that out for a little bit at the very intimate and early June but it's sort of lost my interest and then in and <hes> I think it was early July is when they added the C._W.. wrinkle and I was pulled right back in because I realized they had Paul Heyman and Paul Heyman was going to be a part of it and I was really excited and encouraged by that and then they properly Keel that for May when Stephanie McMahon was revealed as the owner of e C W I felt like Stephanie McMahon owning EC W was the most uneasy w thing ever <hes> but I still maintained like some sort of hope so I bought this pay-per-view thinking man this is going to be it and then not really being overwhelmed. Now there is one. There's some really good mashes on here but there's one math that I still remember all these years later and I'm excited for you to see as Rob Van Damme and Jeff Hardy. They have a barn burner owner of a match. It's the match I remember the absolute most but I just felt like you know the star power that they needed for me W._C._W.. Side of things is not here. You know there's no steiner brothers. There's no sting there's no Goldberg. There's no ric flair layer. There's no Scott Holler Kevin Nash. There's no Hulk Hogan that doesn't to me feel lives nowhere bishop. Whatever the hell yeah exactly I mean come on? I I know people say what I say. People think when I say that I'm just kissing ass but realistically you're the guy who led the charge charge and I think maybe you know an angle might have been a different approach here. You know it's easy to sorta armchair quarterback this now and I think a lot of you know fans at the time are like oh they don't have so and so why don't they just get as if the W._B._F.. Didn't have those ideas I mean the people who are making those decisions probably had the same ideas a lot of us do but the realities of the contract situation would prevent it from being thing at this point. They're probably looking for shot in the arm their businesses down down a little bit from years past. I mean a one is a great year but creatively you've gotta think you know what's our motivation competition. SORTA brings everybody up and I just felt like this was not what it could have been but I think it's more of a victim of timing and maybe a little more patients. Here may have paid off because eventually everybody's GonNa come over Goldberg's going to be here. Scott Steiner is going to be here. Scott Hall Kevin Nash Hulk Hogan Ric flair there are going to be here but they're not here yet yeah and you know so this a million times and others have as well but timing. Is Everything going back to this match. Oh this is a phenomenal match. I mean I'm having a ball. What I mean Sean Woman? He's so good and Kidman right there with them every step of the way this is really a fun match to watch. If you're not watching along on the network I encourage you to go back and watch it for no other reason than this mass. This is great. This is kind of match that I like. I mean to me their story you know but not at the expense of athleticism there's athleticism but not at the expense of good story good character I mean this is. This is my kind of match right here. What did you think about Billy Kidman trending a couple of weeks ago? Did you see just randomly when you're on your track. He was trending on twitter and no one could figure out why including him I did not you know I I was in and out of cell coverage in quite honestly I was trying to disconnect a little bit <hes> when you're in the truck if you spend too much time looking at your social media you're you're not a good travel partner so I kind of left my phone. The glove compartment is as long as I could <hes> so I didn't really follow so much but did anybody eventually figure out why he was trained on of well. The reasoning was trending is Kevin Owens was posting funny pictures of Ghazi might potentially beat up or whatever and so <hes> as he's slotting in all these he's profile picks like a collage eight different photos. He randomly put lucky an old billy kidman picture in there and that got everybody talking. I thought it was great so it led to okay billy. Kidman love fest where there's tons of clips and gifts of some of his more famous moments are entering maneuvers or whatever but it got so popular he was trending on twitter and Billy Kidman. I thought had like a line of the day and I'm GonNa Butcher because I'm doing it for memory. Something like <hes>. I just saw trending ending hope it doesn't mean I'm Dan or fired. Isn't that the truth though I could see that Kidman is so good here and I know we're taping this. They obviously tomorrow headed down to Tampa <hes> to take part in the raw reunion which I'm really looking forward to <hes> going to see a lot of people. I haven't seen in a long time in a few people that you know that I'm still close lawsuits this day so it's going to be great but I'll feel like I'm officially back <hes> when I get the T._v.. On on Monday yeah I mean it's a it's a WHO's who on onr all this week I mean I think all and Nash and maybe Walkman and Hall Cogan. I mean the whole interview gang and a bunch of other folks stone cold and it's a frigging who's who at that Rory Union this week Yup and of course my first my very first smackdown the following day in Miami so looking forward to that as well and GonNa jump into the deep end of the pool and start swimming litter early the he'd been to the pool. It's it's so crazy to me that this says a real sentenced. We're having right now is it not I mean who would've guessed that this was where we would be your. It's it's honestly I hate to keep talking about it because it's redundant and I've said it a thousand times to myself opened others over the last couple of weeks but it's still surreal to me in in many respects and even more so just walking around you know the offices and you know getting my own office and just I it's it's surreal. It's I I gotta say this gun around and now to keep talking about myself here in the context of what we're watching but I've been excited about things before in certainly whoa okay. We'll take a break here. What everybody's seeing enough for here? Big Move off the top opening star press and there it is Billy Kidman get swing. Can you believe it the W._W._f.. Lost a match Oh smokes but as I was about to say as Billy Kidman the first W._C._W.. Win here standing is excited as I've been at different with different opportunities in my life. I've never been is excited as I am. Now I mean it's just I I feel like a kid again. It's so cool. I'm so excited about this opportunity that people that I get to work with. Let me see backstage the alliance that's what they're calling this <hes> version of the W. W. W. Relationship and there's DP and in case you <hes> are not totally in the loop. <hes> Billy Kidman's probably got one of the more interesting angles going on here. <hes> is in the main event. We'll we'll get there but it's interesting to say the least now I can't hear this. I have the audio down for obvious reasons but I'm going to have to go back and watch this. You know once this podcast over I just want to hear this Promo and now here we're going to the woman's locker room and I think two of the biggest assets W._C._W.. Towards the end Peralta Tori Wilson and Stacey Keebler home I lions tigers bears. This is a different air for professional wrestling. It's not <hes> yes you know things. Change Times changed things. Evolve People Evolve Society evolves and certainly we've evolved and what they're talking talking about here. Is there there previewing their match and a saying that it's it's a shame the fans are going to have to settle for seeing Trish and lead stripped <hes> instead of them because we know that the fans really want us. It's one because I can't watch the segment like that. I wonder who was the producer on that. Who Sort of had to go over the creative okay so Tori what we want you to do is rub your hands over your breasts and then push them together like is that a dude running through that because that was like that would be the most awkward conversation ever to have? I don't know I wasn't there can't comment here. Comes your favorite character in the history of professional wrestling Raven Yep. What do you think of the dreadlock look here? I know this is going to shock you. Kinda like my you know yellow will phantom but a kind of like a like. I'm going to need to see ah you know your corporate gal these days but one day I'm GonNa need to see you in dreads Mike while what a match. I think we're going to have to photoshop that one. I don't have enough airlifted to dread anymore <hes> anymore or implying you used to belong here by me. Did you ever rock that. Look when you were down puffing Gino Komo Mica with the red stripe for some no but you know I would've would've occurred to me. Somebody would have suggested it so. The commission looks like he's a pretty good shape. This is an odd matchup you know Regal Regal and Raven. I kinda like it. This is to two characters on opposite ends of the rustling spectrum as it were right Keller would say that the style combination sometimes fell apart and look awkward are forced as their styles didn't seem to mash but it was never boring he gives us one star and three quarters of course at this point I I still would have more closely associated Regal as W._C._W.. Guy and Raven as an easy w guy but that's not the case here because William Regal as the W._W._f.. Commissioner so this is your W._w._f.. Alliance match but this doesn't scream plastic W._C._w.. C._W. versus WWF gotTa me no and and again you know it's kind of hard to plug myself back into two thousand one but Stephen Regal probably at this point in two thousand one and spent more time in W._C._w.. than he had in W._W._l.. Yeah even kind of dilutes it even further I think any is the fans now clearly backstage and in those involved creative they embraced even as a w._w._f.. Character by this point but in the eyes is the fans within the context of W._C._W.. Invasion I think this is armchair twenty years later kind of booking or whatever almost twenty years but you know if you're going to have somebody turn from a story line position Steven Rayle especially as the commissioner. That was his character at this point. Can you imagine the kind of story that you could have built from that. If the invasion was going to be a longer term plan that would have been interesting if all me there Conrad make any sense. You're my just drinking my own cool eight here this morning. I'm with it. I'm not anti griffin just terrific every once in a while. It's nice executing that armchair and you know figure out how things should've could've been so easy when you don't actually have to do it and you could just sit back and think about what could have been at this point until I two thousand one one you know what was your primary business interests. I mean if you weren't really focusing on wrestling. We already knee deep and television programs. Where you're working on your show? I think the very first show that we the Jason Jason Hurry night we when we formed our partnership Bishop Entertainment we sold a show to N._B._C. called. I WanNa be a Hilton with Paris Hilton's mother Kathy and her father we sold that <music> Subaru or with a company called end Amal which was relatively new company at the time <hes> they had been based. I believe in Holland and they were making your way into the United States state opened up offices in Hollywood Hollywood and really <hes> became the juggernauts in non scripted programming and still are to this day. It's now called end mall shine <hes> because they merged with another company Shiny entertainment base of the U._k.. <hes> <hes> so so that yeah that's what I was focused on at this point. Is that very for show that we sold <hes> we sold it with to a guy our executive at animal was a young man by the name of Paul Bucci Berry. <hes> and Paul went on to become one of the top executives at Fox for a long time and is now one of the very top executives at the eighty networks and still a very good friend so there you go but I want to be a Hilton or just look that up and aired in Oh oh five but you're already working on the show for years ahead of time what's typical arc from when you sort of work on the germ of an idea for T._v.. Show to where it actually Max air it can year your five years two years three years. You know very rarely do come across an idea and you for example that that show aired in two thousand five. We're probably producing it in two thousand NCAA fourth quarter two three three. Maybe four you start developing it in pitching it and you know what they say. What I say packaging you first of all you gotta especially at that time with unscripted programming so much of it was talent driven as opposed to concept of IT in other words Pawn Stars for example? That's a concept show some talent driven show clearly the talent emerges and become stars after the fact but it's isn't this show is driven by the town. It's driven by the concept with I WANNA be Hilton that was very much a celebrity talent brand driven show so that was a matter of you know you're going to spend six months or so maybe more getting the talent excited about the idea and getting them on board so that you have an idea that you can actually go out and pitch to a network and then you get the ten you get the talent package you develop a very loose concept <hes> and you you'll take that to your agents. It's eight whoever represents you and you'll get their input and they'll help you determine who might be the most you know suitable network for that particular show and then you start attaching you know other below below the line types of talent. Who's going to be your show rudder? You know what what other talented you need to bring into the project to make it work in any pitcher to a network networks that could be a six month to a year year and a half long before you finally let me give sale so it it so much of it just depends on the market conditions at the time and and the type of project that it is we've had we've we have sold projects that you come up with a on a Monday and six months later. You're shooting and you've already sold it. I've got ideas. I've got a project right now that I've been working on for six years. That's just now beginning to see the lighter day so it's so much of it depends. Let's talk about another what if type scenario here comes tasks of course he's not the W._w._f.. But he has an A._C.. W original t-bone task plex see what happens. I have an idea though and there it is Ravens D._D._T.. That's your finish. How about that? Don't call it a streak but all of a sudden loss to in a row by and the commissioner no less. That's kind of a big damn deal. Would you think of this match Conran. They're solid solid. It's seven. It's hard to follow what we just saw. Though the Kidman match was really really good so we're going to get a backstage skit here what the undertaker and Kane brothers of destruction that's the undertaker's wife Sarah and I think Vince is going to give them a bit of a pep talk here <hes> but undertaker he's not really that into into this idea of a pep talk from the chairman and <hes> He may have a different opinion. No I wasn't watching at this point but what was the what was the storyline here. What what what was undertaker undertaker involved with? He's in the main event. It's a a multi-million tag matches our main event with the alliance versus W._C._W.. Or I'm sorry the alliance versus W._W._e.. So <hes> that's where A._D._p.. Is Indeed EP was revealed as being being a stalker so he has been stalking the undertaker's wife taking footage. It's Kinda creepy yeah now of course A._D._p.. Years later what say his ideals to feud with the Rock People's champ versus people's Champ but of course it was of course it was so the the W._f.. Side of things is Chris. Jericho Cain Kurt Angle Stone Cool Steve Austin and the undertaker and the alliance side of things as booker t the Dudley Boys A._D._p.. And Rhino so really the only representation on the alliance side of the equation was DP correct <hes> w._C._W.. Yeah Booker T. and did he picks booker T. Booker T.. I'm sorry that's right okay well. That's that's pretty strong representation. Would you <hes> would you rock the shirt like this in two thousand one or says big show and it's got on Arrow pointed to your Dick <hes> No. I don't like to call attention to myself in that regard is just I think it's tacky and quite honestly unnecessary blew the big and over I mean it feels like with blue. It could have the big show hey so. Let's do some <hes> some questions here. People have been anxious to talk to you about the invasion for a long time. Here's an interesting question from brick moss corner hypothetically speaking. If W W had won the Monday night wars would you booked at invasion angle or would you have just slowly integrated W._W._e.. NEC W talent clearly hypothetical I would like like to think I find it more entertaining to believe that I would have booked the evasion ankle because I believed in it. I mean that was that was the essence the premise if you will of the whole end up you well and the success behind it was Scott Devon coming over from W._W._f.. And in their way invading W._C._W.. To seek revenge on the people that didn't give the opportunities in the money that they felt they deserve when they were there. The first time that was the premise and it worked so I would I would like to think that I would have kind of gone back to that well and found a new way or a variation of the same formula to try to achieve success again but who knows you know so much depends ends on conditions and opportunities and limitations and parameters legal issues you never know but I'd like to think that of all things were equal and the opportunity would have been there I would like to that's exactly what I would have done. Give me some more hit me some more questions. Here's we get fired up with this match. Well I mean this part to that same one any particular feuds he would have booked immediately like you know less imagine all things are equal and you could get everybody and obviously that's that's not what was able to do here so it is a bit of an unfair comparison but let's just pretend you have access to the whole roster at their peak W._C._W.. N._W._F.. Their P wh what naturally jumped jumped out to you you know especially looking at this now and I know everybody still to this day. You know what if we would've had staying and undertaker I know that's you know front of mind for most wrestling fans in the what if category sorry but St Boston Goldberg is probably right there with it but I really all things being equal would have loved to seen Undertaker Goldberg Twenty years ago. I think that would have it really cool. Wow nobody even talks about that but you're right. That would have been fun. Here's a fun question here from <hes> Austin Smith if I picked any moment for Eric to make his first appearance post W._C._W.. Sale at would've been at the end of the Wrestlemania x seven main event where Austin had turned heel he shaking hands with Vince McMahon what if Eric Bischoff came out at that very moment what what Eric's perfect moment have been for him to debut while that would have been a good one. I'm not sure what the creative behind that would have been. I mean the beat would have been really interesting I I I know I'm the sound like I'm just pandering here because of the show but I am kind of disappointed that I turned down the opportunity to be a part of this and again. I don't think it might not have had any real impact on the overall success with is pay per view or the story going forward out of it but if I let my imagination run wild and think about it you know with Paul there the dynamic in the history that Paul Him in and I had at the time <hes> the W._C._W.. Talent L.. They're all the backstory in the history between W._W._e.. W._W._f.. At the time I kinda Kinda chew in my inner loop here which would have been a part of this could have been really good. Patrick wants to know what would Eric's Dream Team of five on five for W._C._W.. Versus W._W._e.. have been so we know the main event here so got to recap booker t the Dudley's Rhino and A._D._p.. Against Your Cocaine Kurt Angle Austin and undertaker let's just let's just pretend so on one side I mean you. You'd have on the W side you'd have to have Goldberg Right <hes> <hes> you'd probably also WanNa have <hes> diamond douse page right I he would be there but I would. I would probably tagged instinct I in order Okay Goldberg Staying One and two is flare on the list Hogan on the list Nash when he got flair would definitely be on the list. I think I would've had to put Hogan on the other side of the equation because even at this point and I think most people recognize Hulk Hogan is being W._w._f.. Guy Now W._C._W.. Guy Okay so we'll say Bill Goldberg thing ric flair is <hes> Kevin Nash on Domino's page on it as Scott Hall on it. I don't think so I I D- definitely be on it because he he was definitely a W._c._w.. Guy At the time but I don't think I would've put hall in Nash in the Equation Booker. T. Definitely Booker T. Definitely Booker T. so there's there's are so bill. Goldberg your team captain if you will sting ric flair domino's page booker t the upside Scott to be Steve Austin Right Yup no doubt <hes> you probably have the undertaker on their no doubt who else she got. Let's who I would've had to put Jerko in Ariza wildcard just from a storyline point of view because you always have the opportunity attuned to either make a really cool turn or Ortiz one to create some anticipation to speak fans. Wonder what's going to happen so I put Jericho in there for shore. <hes> is the rock on the list God. You'd have to put the rock there when you in two thousand one I think so you'd have to put the rock there have to when you said you want hogue it on this side you know I don't make full shown that Mick Foley that Mick Foley in two thousand one work rate was everything and and not to have a great work ethic. Don't get me wrong but I I would've wanted to see as much really fast. Pace action is I could get in two thousand one as opposed to strong characters <hes> <hes> not that you want to sacrifice characters necessarily for work ready to work for characters but I'm not sure I would have put them in that mix in now. I don't think I would've hard to say but I don't think I would've. It's a tough it's a lot of tough choices their talent. We're talking about Steve Austin and got the rock. You got the undertaking. He got Chris Jericho who rounds out number five you need. You definitely need that wildcard in their number five number five number five. You've just want to have hulk Hogan sit this one hour slot him in no no put me in for the hot tag. I would put him in for the yeah you you got to put them in for that hot tag. There's got to be that moment and again a little bit like Jericho. What's he gonNA do which ways you're gonNA go? There's there's a lot of potential there especially with the N. W. O. Thing and everything so yeah I probably have to. I tell them Ariza wildcard well. There have been a spot anywhere on here for a giant or a macho man are Crispin Wa. I don't know made it such a loaded. I mean at WHO's expense right others so much talent there that we're going over <hes> very difficult to wave at so there you go bill gobert staying Ric Flair A._D._p.. And Booker T. on one side Austin undertaker rock Jerko Hogan on the other. It's a lot buddy a hell of a card book. It could Conrad Book It. Ryan Evans says let's see if Bischoff stays on the company line now. What do you think so? Many people are adamant that our podcast is going to change because you're I mean this is this is a nostalgia podcast or talking about old stuff. We're not I'm talking about current stuff well. Why don't you think there's such a fear that the show is going to change here because they're cynical? People are naturally cynical. <hes> some people are not all people but of course they think you know I'm going to be forced to change things forced to change because of my position which is not the case you know full disclosure. You know one of my first meetings. We've talked about current obligations things that I could and could not <hes> continue with doing it. I made it clear that the podcast was really important to me <hes> for a lot of reasons and something that I enjoyed doing and there was no issue at all none whatsoever clearly. I'm you know <hes>. I'm going to be cognizant of certain things I have to be but I can't imagine the show's really going to change you know if you go back and listen to you know how how many podcasts have we done sixty so you're seventy of them eighty of them. I don't even know a lot but it's been over. You know probably hundreds of hours at this point. Yeah I think you could go back and listen to any of those podcasts and I was never critical of W._w._f.. I critiqued not it as I as critique some of my own work I was critical of some of my own work acknowledged. You know some of the stupid stuff I've done and mistakes that I've made things like that <hes> but overall. I think you'd have to look really hard. Word Use your imagination <hes> quite quite frankly to isolate any moments when I was really critical W._w._f.. So or W._W._e.. So I'll yearning is going to change no reason to well. Here's the thing when you're critical of them. You're critical of something that happened in nineteen ninety eight. You know we're not we're not reviewing the current product or you know whatever so that's that's not going to change. We're install to show and outside of us. You know talking about your real life and and that's Sir another part of the show. It's people know about you in the ring right now task taken to the Jiri here <hes> but you know you talk about cooking on the big green egg with Mississippi. You're taking your dog Nikki out or I mean that's the part of your real life often. You just went through a major life change. I mean moving more than halfway across the country and from living in the sticks to live in downtown so things are a little different these days man are they ever and by the way here's is another thing that I'm not used to now you probably are because you live in the south and and I used to. I lived in Atlanta so I get it humidity well. Maybe it's something I completely wheatley forgot about you know as ineffective good buddy of mine mark bueller out in Cody Wyoming. Hey Mark if you're listening sent me a picture yesterday he he's out on on his boat fishing on the on the reservoir war and his band seventy four degrees twenty percent humidity sunshine and Beautiful Day as I'm sweating like a gorilla in the zoo on a hot summer day I'm taking my dog for walk. Walk in the sweat is just pour off me. I mean it's ridiculous. It's ninety six degrees and ninety percent humidity here in Stanford. You saw a bitch. You didn't have to do that today but yeah getting the humidity is <hes> it's GonNa take a minute. Thank the Lord for air conditioning in the south boy. I'm telling you again in Wyoming. I watched the news in the morning. I'm drinking my cup of coffee and you know it's sixty degrees out in July six o'clock in the morning. I'm watching the news is oh. It's going to be a high of ninety five in New York City and I'm thinking well whatever but when you're in New York City or in this case Stanford in its ninety five it's frigging hot. I mean it's brutal. Oh I can't imagine not having air conditioning in the south or anywhere else for that matter. You know I lived in Arizona. It's not the heat the old say it's not the heat humidity. That's shit is true true that that's real true. I lived in Arizona. It'd be one hundred ten degrees out. I'd be out ride my motorcycle having a great time ninety five ninety six degrees here. I won't go outside. It's brutal such a WIMP. I'll get used to it another question here from twitter I if you could have re booked this paper view with one main event. What would it have been? I I assume with their what their implying there has not a multi-man Tang but just let's go straight up. You know maybe a one on one or tag team match if you've got you know just in their traditional setting so you know not d._d._p.. Teaming with the Dudley Boys but Diamond Dallas page versus or booker not versus because those are your top W._C._W.. Talents who are representing the W._b.. Side of things I think most people would agree booker T. and indeed ep what would that have been who would have been the right opponent for Booker T. or who would have been the right opponent for a date ep or put them together. I don't know if if it would be book if it was one match go back to undertaker Goldberg right war a taker sting. I mean aside from Rick Flair. Ric flair you know will really was the face of W._C._W.. For as long as he was there in the minds I think most wrestling fans even though Goldberg you know at his peak was a bigger draw and we did more money and you know arguably you can define defined success financially or in terms of ratings if you choose to but I think in the hearts and minds of most wrestling fans long-term wrestling fans ric flair was the face of W._C._W.. Right below him Kim would be stink largely because of what ric flair did persists career in his association for so long with with Ric flair so I if there was going to be an undertaker sting moment this this is probably where it should have been fun question here. Stephen Plan wants to know which batch would have been better Goldberg versus Gilbert or the ultimate warrior versus the renegade. I'm sorry could you repeat that broke up just a little bit well yeah. I guess we should remind everybody that Erica's broadcasting this week from <hes> temporary housing with not the world's Best Wifi Ah so if you hear something cut out here this week we're still committed to bring any the show but doing the best we camped temporary housing this week chat me up though <hes> which mass would have been better this comes to us from Stephen Flynn Goldberg Versus Gilbert Berg or ultimate warrior versus renegade who Gobert Gilbert would have been really that would have been fun to watch 'cause Bill I that really bothered him. I mean the now it it. It would have been a trainwreck of batch and I'm not sure Gilbert were to come out of it in one piece but man it would have been fun to us that thing evolved backstage leading into it. You know what I mean like when he gets to the building and everybody knows a match is going to happen and just watching the drama gone on his Bill Bill War. He's emotions on his sleeve. At that point. You would have had a hard time wrapping his around that so for that reason alone. I think that would have been a great match probably would have been more entertaining backstage in it wasn't the ring to be true. Imagine were bill would have been banging his head off during the day leaving into that about the missed. I don't get the miss of never been misguide. I know it's a big deal. People have done for decades probably since the beginning of modern television professional wrestling but never been a big fan of spitting missed but Matt Hardy. We're looking at Matt Crepe here. Oh chair to the back R._V.. D. On fire it is already right. Yes I love you so much. I couldn't tell the camera was moving around and he out so fast. That look like rb. Do you have any see through shirts like that that my heart is wearing now Jesus. Please tell me that's for Post that on social media this next week. Nobody wants to see that nobody will have mrs be put it on. We'll all watch that yes. That's something we haven't talked about house. <hes> MRS BE Locking Stanford. You know she was more excited about this move than I was. I was pretty excited about it. You know I I was a little reluctant to leave cody. I've I've worked my entire life to my adult life to to have a home. I've always wanted to live in the mountains always loved it out west and it was a little bit of a challenge you know emotionally for me to realize that I was going to be living on the East Coast but obviously the opportunity was sufficient sufficient to I was able to get over that but ms be any other hand couldn't wait now. She loves Wyoming. Don't get me wrong no problem there. She loves it as much as I do in many respects but she also loves change inch she likes opportunity now. I'm just talking about the financial opportu. She likes the opportunity to experience different things and I think for her <hes> much more so than me. The idea of you know a different lifestyle style in a different environment was really exciting for her so she was very very positive about it. I'm lucky that way because this this job is it's a monster of job. I'M NOT GONNA lie <hes> I. It's the biggest responsibility I've ever had quite quite frankly in many respects <hes> so I'm excited about that but the I I could never pull this off without the kind of support you know that I'm getting from her because if she was not enthusiastic about moving or you know I had to worry about that aspect in my life it would make the professional side of things even more challenging. I don't have to worry about that. Some very grateful for that very lucky guy and on sounds really sappy. I'm a wrestling podcast but that's the fact have. Are you try to any of the Colin Girl Pizza no but I'm telling you know here's now here's the deal we got here. Less Monday right side even been a week yet. We're in temporary housing as soon as I finished this is podcast because they put me up in a one bedroom apartment because that's all that was available in the corporate housing that they set up for us <hes> but as soon as I've done with this podcast we now have to move all of our stuff into another apartment a bigger one so <hes> we're really not settled in at all. This stuff is still in boxes and it's all very very temporary but it's all good in. There's so many good places around around here to eat. There's a place down. The street called Joschka. It's an Italian restaurant and I thought I knew good. Italian food lived in Detroit Pittsburgh neighborhood. That was all Italian as a kid growing up I mean most of my neighbors didn't speak English. That's how Italian it was so I've grown up around good Italian food but all my God this is good at Elian food but no I haven't checked into the pizza yet. I will though this week but we told herself okay this week until we get moved into the new place and we could actually go grocery shopping. We're just going to eat out every night so we've been checked at him off. The list brother may have to check that went out tonight. We're talking over really really good match in my opinion on the show <hes> Jeff Hardy in Rob Van Damme. You'RE GONNA watch one mass this week. I would say go watch that one gets four stars twelve minutes forty seconds really really good stuff. It's robin dams pay per view debut for the World Wrestling Federation of course <hes> these guys have wrestled before on Monday night raw think back in nineteen ninety-seven back when he was Mr Monday night and working with C._W.. Jeff Hardy. Tom was just an enhancement spent talent but this is really something special and lots of new energy and unique hotspots probably one of the breakout performances of Rob Van Damme's career <hes> and he's doing it with a guy who is historically known at this point as a tag wrestler Jeff Hardy. I think people got a sense for what Jeff Hardy could be as a singles competitor as a result of this match so if you're going to watch one mass this week I'm going to recommend it'd be this one Robert P robin at his peak really innovative fun guy to watch but from what I've heard I've never had the the opportunity. If you WANNA call that to be in the ring with Robert he could he could lay in a watch to kick the teeth out abyss T._N._A.. Back now that that spinning kick that he does and that's the thing about kicks is in order to get them up and get them moving and get everything going in the direction. You wanted to go a little hard to pull a kick and that a lot harder to pull a kick in a palm so a guy that relies on the kids like rob. Did you know probably fifty fifty shot. You're GonNa Potato Your opponent at least fifty percent of the time if not more years ago I was <hes> at a raw with rick hanging out and this is before doors open and <hes> and how about Jeff Hardy running the rails here this this good stuff man these guys pull out all the stops anyway. <hes> the the creative is coming down in. Everybody's you know starting huddle roll up and say hey what are you doing tonight. What are you doing tonight and obviously <hes> someone approaches and and tells the group that Sorta now circled around Rick for story Tom? Hey what are you doing than I in. He says this performer says Oh. I've Got Rob Van Damme and another veteran in the circle says Oh man get you fucking hands up. I don't know but just tickled me L. because everybody knew hardy. was you know you mentioned hearty. Running the rails I mean he look at this van Damme same thing as like cats may they just do it looks so effortless but but can you imagine just standing on the floor jumping straight up and landing you know three and a half feet in the air on a rail and then launching yourself off of it you know the cats and these days you know you're wrong this this is this is great stuff then now forever but these days a lot of moves and stuff they're putting together in this match wouldn't be considered all that crazy because a lot of is just more commonplace because wrestling has evolved but you gotta appreciate you know all this time ago eighteen years ago a lot of this stuff people were seeing for the very first time and they're doing it. You know they're not. They're not one hundred seventy. Pound guys not not spiriting that just saying Rob Van dam is not a little guy you meet him in real life and you realize this is a pretty good sized dude but he's still able to pull all this stuff off and this is at a time when nobody was doing anything like it so really spectacular stuff that was ahead of its time and it's now commonplace. I mean these guys were sort of trailblazers for the style that is really commonplace on an INEX- ti show or a w show or an evolved show or any of that stuff you know you talk about Robin Vindamme and and what a phenomenon he was in a main case it's still is he. He's not like you know bodybuilder big and bodybuilders thick and heavy but if you meet him you know if you get anywhere near him he is deaths in carries a majority of his weight in his legs his hips and his legs. He's a really powerful guy. His legs are incredibly strong powerful naturally again not not ah bodybuilder type but I I would guess here. He's probably weighing to thirty five. Maybe two forty doesn't doesn't look like a bodybuilder to forty but he's a solid. I'm guessing to forty here and flexible. He's flexible like a gymnast. That's the part that's amazing and probably one of the reasons his career lasted as long as he did given some of the crazy stuff that he did he was able to to stay healthy primarily because he was so flexible. That was a big move off the bring Abram that was big a power vom a sunset flip into a power bomb off the apron onto the floor again. You know these days you're seeing really spectacular. Oh crashes on the the Apron and of course every time the happens. The announcers have to remind us. That's the hardest part of the ring. I think that's their legally obligated to do so but still this is ahead of time and now you see the giant ladder which we know Jeff Jeff Hardy has become famous for with his T._l._C. matches with the Hardie boys and I've gotTa tell you I'm not afraid to heights. I mean that was a private pilot. Heights bother me at all but a climbing up on that ladder on live T._v.. Scare the hell out of me not necessarily because afraid of the hospital. I'm afraid of something that could go wrong. Look at my that's crazy easy something I've always enjoyed you know and just the psychology of a ladder situation like that. It's like why wouldn't you just push the guy over and somebody finally does and pretty spectacular tackler the scariest part of that for me would have been going up the ladder getting pushed off of it because that you could see coming and you can time it but yeah climbing up that ladder live T._v.. Would that'd be that'd be a challenge. What did you think of Robin Williams airbrushed ear something I never I if I never see anything airbrush again? It'll be a month too soon. Airbrush gear hate it always have looks like something you buy at the State Fair like when you spend all your money on Corn Dogs and cotton candy they've only four dollars left and you walk by a little booth with his Celani airbrush gimmicks and t shirts. I've only got four bucks. The shirts only three ninety nine. I can afford it. That's what it reminds me nothing against state fairs or the t shirts that you can buy them but whenever I see anything airbrush I think of the Minnesota State Fair but oh nice jump spin back kick by Rob Van Damme that was a legit jump spin back that was super legit and thanks Jeff Hardy off the ramp onto the concrete below that I want. Let's see that give Bam. Oh my God that was we that was like there used to be a fighter and those of you who are fans kick boxing fans probably know the name Rick the Jet Rufus. I actually used to compete with his father P._J.. Rufus but rick the Jet Rufus could throw a jump spin back. He was a good kickboxer fighter he could throw one of the bus jump spin back kicks and I've ever seen robin dams was right there with it. That's how good it was nicely done rob by the way. I didn't realize that you knew I I mean this is how small world is. I didn't know I did it. You knew Rick Rufus. I knew Rick Rufus. Let me tell you something when I used to teach <hes> martial arts Rick Rufus was like six or seven years old he we used to chase me around the karate school where I was teaching because his dad it was from Milwaukee originally in his dad pet rufus P._J.. Rufus <hes> was an instructor that we did a lot of business with and competed with and different things like that and he was would come to Minneapolis on a regular basis in Brooklyn chasing around the karate school hanging up my leg driving me nuts while I was trying to teach glasses so yeah I know the Rufus family well the reason I mentioned that as his younger brother Duke Rufus has put a ton of talent of the A._F._C. These days like <hes> Tyron Woodley or been aspirin but in another era probably when I was more into M._M._A.. Stephan Bonner Matt Msci on Jen's Pulver Showtime Anthony Pettus Alan Belcher but most famously. I guess for wrestling fans. He's also the guy who trained seeing pocket. I May I didn't you know I I think duke is younger than Rick so five years yeah so I think Duke may have been you know something had happened on a Friday night but at that point so I I've never met Duke but I certainly new Rick and when he was a kid and his dad but I'm yeah I know of certainly clearly familiar with with his relationship with pump. This is hilarious to me or small world. It is where you know the guy's brother like wow I get around bro. I got some miles on me Jeff Joe. Where did he get cut open? Did you see that because he's he's. He's getting up of his head has gash. That looks like that looks like an incidental type of thing not to mention. That looks like what the veteran that day raw talking about get your fucking hands off. It's a good match. You're right about this. I mean these guys you get the the sense in the field. You know when you can make me sorta suspend disbelief just for a minute you really feel like man. These guys are doing everything they can really win or beat each other to death and the other. What do you think of the five star Fox Flash? I liked it because there was so much hang time I mean it was like littlehey you you'd see him in mid air for a long period of time and you could actually get a feel for that movie you can anticipate landing up in the air for so long sometimes moves like that happen so Fassi they're over before they register with the audience <hes> but that he gets so much hang time again because ROB's athleticism he would get rubber. Get so much time in mid air that just made it look even more dramatic and the fact that he would spread out wait his arms legs were completely. We spread out like a you know a marvel comic character just so dramatic. I'm GONNA say that's one of my top probably one of my top fifty matches of all time right there when you think about how many matches the I agree I mean that's really really good stuff out of your way to get that looks so cool. What's the <hes> Robin Damn Frog splash just awesome? What's cool to about the the White Van Damme did it is he would sell the impact himself afterwards like he would roll around holding himself like you know because that's logical you know he's crashing his body into another human body? It's got hurt him to and he's your new hardcourt champion First pay-per-view Mash and the company big showing makes a big splash. It's lot of attention for himself. Good for him such a cool guy to I've heard you know a a lot of Robin Damn stories from different people but my experience with him. He's such a laid back easygoing guy but he's also one of those guys you can underestimate in terms of his is real ability ability to to get into it if if need be He's a legit tough guy but you would never guess because he's just so easy to be around and so cool and so calm Kurt Angle we're looking at Kurt Angle and Vince McMahon now in a backer dangle ain't going another again. You look at these guys go. Oh my God look how young looks but this is two thousand one. When did he win? Gold Medal in Ninety eight was it six ninety six and Yes right ninety six Olympics while the neck on Kurt Angle index scares me. It's funny because at some point in the company I think after lost his hair he shaved his head. People would start to compare him to a thumb you can see it and talk about an we talked earlier about how talent confined themselves and all of a sudden hit that gear and sometimes is it just happens. I mean it it. It can happen just in the middle of a promo all of a sudden you just it's like you know maybe you're making contact with the balls. It's coming across a plate your head and fall balls. Maybe getting a single every once in a while and then you just change something up. Maybe you just ship your feet a little differently shift. Wait a little differently and you make contact with the ball and that's how it's <hes> that's how you hit a home run and you're able to repeat that while the same type of thing can happen happened in the rain in the middle of a pro I guess in a match certainly not an expert in that regard but I know in the ring and a promo you can just could just feel that okay that's how you do and I think Kurt Angle's another one of those talents and he's hey we had amazing talent from the get-go but I think her angle is another. One of those guys just hit his gear. Probably right about now was such a natural perform. I've always loved watching Kurt and I compare it Kurt sometimes to to dump ziglar and Vice I because Dolf is another one of those guys obviously legitimate athlete legitimate collegiate wrestler but he's a guy that can be dangerous believable credible one minute and then have you lapping your ass off the next and that's one of the things I loved about Kurt Angle and we talked again earlier about having three or four five years and be able to find different ways to expand your character. I think that's one of the things that is made Kurt Angle such a great perform over the decades is he could shift that year he could be a comedy relief moment and be great at it or he could be a legitimate bad acid. Everybody knows you know could could rip you apart the next next and I think that diversity in your character enough flexibility with your character on range is one of the things that you know talent should strive for in in appreciate another because it's it's rare. I gotTa Tell You I think this is another one. Where W W has the advantage as we look at this video package of Stacey Keebler and <hes> Tori Wilson they're going to be taken on Trish stratus and <hes> leader Eric? What was your favorites Dicey Keebler match? You know any one of them any one of all of them. It's a tie Eh anyone where she got. An entrance was fine with me but she she had legs up to her ear lobes. I mean there was she. Most amazing satellites I've ever seen she was a great athlete and a Nice Person Person. That's the other thing people don't know about her as much as they should. She was genuinely a very nice person to bureau Mick. Foley referee didn't have to convince him too hard hard for this job. You know what I find being a referee as one of the most challenging things that I've done in the ring. I used to hate it. When I said okay? We're GONNA use Bishop as a special referee. Mismatch Co guys really really need to do that now w._w._e.. I wouldn't say that I'd keep it to myself but you know secretly to myself and say oh I don't WanNa do that. I hated being a referee. Let's talk about why I mean. You've got anticipate recipe where the guys are going to be and you've gotta stay out of the way but not too far out of the way because you've got to be ready to spring an action and you gotta be ready to go up and down then you've got to monitor the shoulders and I mean there's there's more to it than I think. A lot of you know fans really realize us. I mean you're you're not the guy calling the spot or necessarily even hearing the spot but you've gotta guess where they're going and stay the fuck out of the way you and you have to know the match. You have to know exactly what's going to happen throughout the match you it's it's a lot there's a lot to screw up as a referee and I'm sure represent. Do you know every day or every week. They get used to it like anything else. The more you do with the better yet in the more comfortable you become but if you're not if you don't do it on a regular basis you know give me a three page interview or or Promo. I'm good. I'm good with that because that's what I did. I'm not not a good but now because I haven't done it a long time but back in the day I was able to memorize things very quickly and and not have a problem retaining things like that so I was good performing on the Mike but man somebody's okay you're going to be the special refereed matched. I'm sitting with a guys listening going through. What's going to happen you right staying staying out of the way a good referee? You don't really see them till you need them. You know what I mean. They shouldn't be there in in the middle of the action and less important to the action so you know trying to stay away from the camera shot until you're needed and not getting run over. There's more than one occasion you know when I was in a rep what I was referendum matching. If I wasn't paying close enough attention or sometimes things do change in the ring for whatever reason and and you're wrong place at the right time gotta get out of the way you're gonNA get run over. You know screw things up so yeah. It was very stressful. Leader was a hell of anathema wasn't she probably still is but I used to like watching to work now the cool person Oh that's a little bit W._w._e.. Choosing Star cast an easier very classy very professional and speaking to classy and Professional Braun panties match. Let's go yeah different time different era different audience different culture culture. Everything was different fascinating how things change it's funny. How when you look at culture in most regards you know even watching network television everyone? Everyone and I don't watch much network television believe me but occasionally I'll check something out or I'll hear about something. That's really good now. Watch it and it's amazing what you can get away with in in terms of standards words in practices on network television and prime time in today's culture but it's also amazing what you can't get away with in in especially with regard to sports entertainment. It's it's become more conservative -servative whereas I think music movies humor in other forms of entertainment have all cotton probably more risque as opposed to sports entertainment where I think it's for the most part gotten more conservative over the years. It's fascinating to watch teasing taking <hes> Tristesse top off or stacey having nothing to do with that. I guess that makes her. He'll interesting too because stacey in interested this point. We're not necessarily season wrestlers so when Trish young her wrestling career and I mean for that matter lead is too I mean all these girls are very young. All these ladies sorry are very young and <hes> but Trish probably has as much wrestling experiences the W._C._W.. Performers but <hes> a later is definitely person with the most experience certainly the most aggressive yeah the former miss congeniality for macy's w really yeah what would what was it judging criteria on that. I'm just curious now not I'm not you know crapping on it. I'm just curious Camic. Oh Oh we'll see got me yeah she just sash out said Miss Congeniality and then would like spank people paddles adults or something so I gotTa tell you when I see <hes> Stacey Keebler and Tori Wilson. I feel like we've gotta make a decision here. Who Do we hate more David Flare Billy Kidman <hes> <music> <hes> I'm? I'm probably eight and I'm billy yeah. I know field hates. Kidman's guts yeah. I'm sorry billy I love you work. You're good guy but in the context of this coversation Burnin Hill Oh my God I love you talk about the sign on the crowd that I mean I don't even know what this is about but there's a pink sign with black leather and says cannot buy fish sandwich. Yeah I mean sometimes sometimes I missed good wrestling size not the ones that looked like you bought them. You know the concession stand but I mean the ones that people actually put time in thought into our somehow able to get into the bring or into the arena good rustling signs. Are they make the show I can be entertaining as hell. I think it'd be dumb but some of them can be really entertaining. I mean when you think about what these companies did hear W._C._W.. An the W._W._e.. That's an interesting spot Andre the giant Jake the snake Roberts ultimately. It's what the companies are doing is. They're recruiting performance here. Who you know who Vince McMahon believes could be on the cover playboy Lord I miss wrestling from this era <hes> and then they're teaching them how to wrestle? This is not like I don't think he needed these ladies. Perhaps leader grew up like loving wrestling and wanting to be a wrestler but the other ladies were just fitness models channels that looking for a new GIG and then there you go Tori Wilson Loses and we all win. Life was wonderful. The I mean we were just putting over the Jeff Hardy <hes> robin damage but I mean this might be the best match on the show so far well in truth. Be known what we're seeing here now. They call it a brand panties match but you can go to any beach that I've ever been to ensure you. Don't mean is really not as risque is is the the name of the match might imply but you know it's the idea of it. I think it's just the idea is so interesting. See that science said National Humane Society. I like that because you know the puppies thing was a big deal back in the day. Thanks to Jerry lawler. Did you guys consider coming coming up with a W._C._w.. Version of puppies I didn't I'm sure others look at nearly took a header off the ramp onto the concrete yeah and in mid fully being the gentleman that he is yeah. I hate you make folly. What are you doing Vermont? It's all good so here we go. We got another Promo Mo- here getting ready for our main events and <hes>. It's this multi person tag match Rhino. The Dudley Boys Domino's page booker. T. Stephanie is trying to get them fired up as Paul Heyman. I've got to go back to listen to us and I'm not I'm. Not You know now putting Paul over because we're working together. I've always said this about Paul. He is one of the best promos in the business. He's so good. Wade killer would say this pay per view was never boring but not one undercard match had a strong storyline or even a passionate focus interview leading into it. This was a mildly entertaining show ninety five percent Senator Tom and dazzling emotionally riveting for five percent of the time that's enough for a mild thumbs up but the W._w._f.. Should strive for more so a lot of people were disappointed in this pay per view but there are some high appoints. I guess we should mention the dark match here. <hes> that does not on the network version of the show is Chabot <hes> versus Scott at you. Haughty Chabot is representing the alliance. He gets a win the W._B._F.. Scotty eight to Hoti so it's Alliance one theory F zero then on the main card edging Christian even out getting a win over Lance storm and Mike Awesome Earl hefner makes the W._B._F.. Up One with his win over Nick Patrick A._P._A.. Make sure they're up to billy. Kidman gets one for the alliance over X.. Park Raven evens out so we're all tied up there and then the alliance team that we sort of talk through of Chris Canyon Hugh Morris Shawn Stasiak got a win over Albert mic show and Billy Gunn that means the alliance is up one to Jerry would even even it out beating Tass. Robin Damn gets a win over Jeff Party so now we're back the other way one for the Alliance Trish and lead a win they even out so we head in our main event fifty fifty booking as we get ready here and we see the backstory of how now we got here into our main event with this invasion of W._C._W.. Taking over here's Booker T. big moment here for book not with the acts kick on Vince McMahon that brings everybody down. This is pretty cool and this is what made apparent this is in July when you see these are all these w guys this is pretty cool what we're watching others recap and set up. I'm reading here so I if you're listening along hair and you hear the air since I can't hear the audio I'm reading because I'm getting sucked into this. It's pretty cool stuff did a great job building this story line up. Does it look a little odd. It just didn't look a little what Stephanie running he said Yeah I get it. It was Steve Austin and his peak here in two thousand one. Would you say that no no what would you say speak was ninety eight as far as my phantom ninety seven but ninety eight is when he was just unbelievable unbelievably unbelievably hot ninety nine. It's probably the year where he made the most money out guess but arguably he was marking up at that point. I mean he was exploding at at that point I I I don't know I think his character was so strong here so strong it because it was established. He was no longer exploding onto the scene. He was owning the scene well He. He had turned heel a wrestlemainia this year here so you go back to the very beginning of April and he turned heel vincent man. It's the biggest mistake maintenance career <hes> I mean he would he would say so because he was just super hot and then when he turned heel the interest in in him and as has <hes> you know just the interest in the company started awaiting a little bit. It was never quite the same so I would say here were three months into the decline of Steve Austin and the W._w._f.. Not Not Austin the performer just his popularity clarity it was at a peek at wrestlemania seventeen and then started peter out a little bit. We think Stephanie's hair here. It's not the Stephanie my favorite look up. I and she's a she's a beautiful woman obviously very talented one of that but she's another one of those people I see her in the hallways. Now it's like she. She doesn't hasn't Charles Robinson. She doesn't age. I don't know that you should say in the hallway though no. Let's say that out now. Let's make sure we added that. I forgot I'm getting I let everybody else. I haven't been in a corporate environment in a long time so I gotta be careful when I say I know that we're just fucking Boston balls the manic either. Doesn't you gave a compliment. That's true. That's your doing a good job here sort of setting the stage and telling the story and no disrespect Booker T. but I don't know that I would have put Booker T. Steve Austin into a program. I mean if I'm fantasy booking the invasion. Maybe it would have been booker T. and Kane and maybe it would been you know the undertaker Goldberg said which was a fun idea. I don't know I think still might have done Goldberg and Austin. I mean that if you listen there wasn't an option here I understand but if it were as wrestling fan I think that's what I would've wanted to see. What what an opportunity though I mean? It would have been able to pull that off. Can you imagine huge and then then you would have the issue of actually having a match which could have been challenging you know because again Bill Bilden have a lot of range as as a performer incredible athlete in intensity and all of those great things but I didn't have a lot of range in W._w._f.. At this time or W._W._e.. Was All about the action in the ring. I mean you had to really perform at a pretty high level in the match would have been tough but conceptually would have been a great one great sign in the crowd booker. T's number one fan I and it's T._A.. Apostrophe S. Basil Chair me up. You know we got we got this on the rocks out of things where we saw the Rock and Goldberg and we saw the Rock and Hulk Hogan the Rock Hog Hogan was just absolutely magic talk to me though about the Stone Cold Steve Austin side of things. What do you think would have been bigger Hulk Hogan sort of the guy who who helped build the W._w._f.? To national and global prominence in the eighties versus Steve Austin sorta carried the torch into the nineties and to thousands at this point so would that have been a bigger marquee match or Goldberg Austin. I added Goldberg Oberg Austin. See that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking I mean and we know that we're going to get Austin or not. AWESOME WE'RE GONNA get rock and Hogan Wrestlemainia but man what if you know when we see rock and Hogan if we could have also seen Austin Goldberg. That's the real fantasy booking and I go. I go with Austin Goldberg really early because I think rustling just across the board I in terms of penetration in the audience worldwide was probably at its peak during the Austin Goldberg no era even more so than in the eighties the eighties was it was the Golden Air in many respects cable television was really emerging as a powerhouse wrestling was emerging as the leading programming on all of cable still is to this day and that was the beginning of it so in many respects it was the golden air because it just changed so dramatically from the sixties in the seventies when it was local markets syndication and territories <hes> but I think by the time Goldberg and Austin reached their respective peaks and their careers there familiarity millea popularity with the audience I think the industry as a whole was even bigger than it was during the eighties and just in terms of number of people watching in it's a penetration into pop culture so I think that's why that match Gober Austin would have been my pick just because they were just more eyeballs watching wrestling during that period a couple more questions from social eighty here T- wants to know if there was ever pay per view to Book Book D._X.. Versus the end of Yo this would have been it. Wouldn't it be theoretically on paper absolutely on paper again the personalities the timing the issues that you know if you could make all that stuff go away and none of those things were issues or problems challenges than yes this that would have been perved. Max Burn wants to know what Eric have done this as an alliance where it's W._C._W.. Andy C._W.. Together or does he feel like it would have had more impact as a purely W._C._w.. Versus W._W._e.. No I think the alliance you know I I say that quick thinking about it too much because as I was looking at the Promo again I'm reading the Promo here but I'm looking at the Promo that <hes> Vince Bansi Boston did when awesome was in a bar drinking a beer and you know Vince McMahon is telling see you know. There's never been a challenge to the W._W._f.. Like this this alliance between W._C._W.. N._C._W.. I liked that idea lot because it was it put W._W._e.. W._W._f.. At this point <hes> they were clearly the underdog because the deck theoretically was stacked against them from a storyline point of view so I think that creatively was a smart move and clearly there there were a lot of issue w fans in the audience and a lot of grease w talented I think it would have been <hes> it would have been a mistake nat got to include them in there because there was a lot of strength there from a storyline point of view talent point view great question here from Matsuda Erica's previously done in a promotional shows with both AAA and new Japan at any point during his tenure as President uh-huh w._C._W.. Did he consider working with any domestic promotions like A._C.. W The U._S. W. A. or smokey mountain wrestling no no no. I think there might have been again because Kevin Sullivan was really his finger at a pulse of EC w there might have been some conversation now passing conversation about it but nothing nothing serious talk to me a little a bit about <hes> you know the way the presentation is done. Do you think there should have been you know purely from television standpoint like an insurance set for the alliance and an insurance set for W._C._W.. I mean for for the W._W._f.. Should there have been maybe on different sides of the arena or something. I realized that presents certain challenges but AH could've. I don't know felt I get your point and I think you're right. I mean you you delude the impact of the concept when it's obvious that everybody's nobody's sharing a locker room or sharing backstage area in wishy performing. You know there are just logistical challenges and you know limitations on what you can't can't do but again. Let's just having fun with this. Let's say you could do anything anything I think having the alliance talent W._W._f.. Or Easy W in this case having any of the talent that was invading the company I would rather see them each coming through the crowd making their way to the ring and getting that crowd reaction as opposed to coming through a formal entrance for example <hes> it would have been difficult it would've been a challenge to come with its own set of problems but it would have been Dan cool and the crowd reaction and as a result of it would have been even cooler and we just have felt legit. You know what I mean if they would've had to come down through the crowd because they didn't locker room they didn't get to catering you know they had to wait out in the parking lot until their match even that could have been kind of interesting fun to play with you know seeing the crowd out there and you know a trailer park parking lot because they couldn't get into the building until they were allowed for their match. That would have made the whole invasion thing phil feel to me a little more fun. Perhaps a little more real fun watching the dynamic here between Vincent Shane Stephanie to fun for them. You know I've never talked to them about this but I will. At some point I'm sure but this had to be this whole after purchasing W._C._W.. And Shane standing in the ring and buying the company out from his father and that whole story Shane was a new performer at this point that had to be really exciting for him as well to me. This makes you wonder like you know what could this have looked like Mike had they waited two years. If you wait two years you've got Hulk Hogan. You've got ric flair. You've got Scott Hall. You've got Kevin Nash. You've got Scott Steiner. You Got Goldberg. Get you know there's you know wrestling fame but you don't know that you're going to have them. Two years predict that you can't predict it so I get it and you're right. I was there two years later but but what you can predict. Is that a lot of these guys that here's the thing I mean I know we didn't talk about this a lot but they made contact with those guys and says hey we'd like to come to work and <hes> here's what we can offer you but that would have meant mint pennies on the dollar from their current contract so I mean some of these guys were getting twenty thousand dollars. A week checks to sit at the house and that's hard to be yip gadget conversation a honey. I just want to let you know I'm going to terminate my turn contract and I just bought this new house and we're putting money in the bank for retirement all that great stuff. I know we're sending the kids college but I'm GonNa. I'M GONNA kill twenty thousand dollars a week and I got an opportunity what we're gonNA make you know. I have a little bit of an idea but it'll be okay. That would have been a tough conversation. They have with your your wife or your husband or your banker or your attorney would have been odd one would have been fun chaos here outside outside of the rain Steve Austin putting the boots booker look like they're serious intensity here you'll notice that often has that right hand wrapped up in his first interaction with Booker t obviously by accident things happen look broke Austin's hand and they didn't get off to the best start in the company as a result because I pritchard I would say called and told Booker T. This this news and said that you know be a good gesture. It'd be the right thing to do if he would <hes> here he Austin's bags for him since he just broke his hand and and he's the guy and you're the new guy and of course booker. T. was having nothing to do with that thought that was very offensive that you would ask a black man curious bags and then bruce relaxed put his foot in his mouth and said No. It's not what I just you know he's tall guy and you literally broke his fucking hand on your first night my big gesture and booker thought maybe they're testing your ribbing me or whatever and <hes> there you go. We were off the races on an interesting start in the company for Bhupathi. I did not know that that is a tidbit of information. I did not know Juno did not know that book Richie Broke Stevenson's hand and you know I mean clearly you know. It's an accident shit happens. I mean nobody at this this point how how did it happen to you a little run and he saw earlier where Booker T. slid in. It wasn't anything that looked crazy. It was just fucking I- accidents happen but you L. Lion timing of it was or all oh my gosh you know first night in hurt him and then he's got to leave the building right the story was on if you remember but he slid in that attack and slid out it was it was just in and out so it's not like they're in the back efforts in all man. Sorry I hurt you realize mob he's gone. He doesn't even know he's hurt so the wrestling is you know our mother. Fucker hurt me on his first night in doesn't say anything. I'm not saying Austin said any of that but I think Bruce trying to look out for Brooker. T. gave him a heads up but without the proper context it sounds really shitty. No one's happy things are weird but yeah here we are in this main event and I'm going to tell you yeah. I was really glad the Dudley's were in this because the deadliest were such a big part of e C W for so long and if there really is going to be a representation from them it's cool the he's in there but it is a little weird that you know Rob van Damme who was a minor inner for them him. He's not in this match and you know there's no saboo. There's no sand man. It's a little weird but we've got this alliance in the W._C._W.. E C W relationship I I would our preferred it just be W._W._f.. Versus W._C._W.. And then some point you know when it started a cool off then you could introduce an EC- W concept and then maybe at some point you could have introduced it n. w. o. concept where perhaps the W._w._f.. Beats W._C._W.. We see W and you pop in and say well. You didn't beat the Real W._C._W.. Everybody knows what I'm talking about and then boom is the name yeah there you go see if only we would have had their crystal ball all back in the day. Damn if only you would have been watching right instead of working on T._v.. Shows which probably paid more and had less politics and required less late night phone calls true these children you know I I'd be remiss if I didn't ask <hes>. Do you address although rumor innuendo about your role with W._B._Z.. I think a lot of people are having fun on the Internet like we'll we'll bishops was to be run smack down and he's not even here and I'm like Gosh. He's live tweeting that he's driving right now. I I don't know rain. It's not like you can just tell transport there. You're you're uploading your family and moving across the country. Yeah it's really interesting I was I've been reading a lot of dirt from a lot of dirt sheet fo- journalists out there who presumably her try to convince people they know what's really going on and so far you know the reporting on on all of my everything that I've read has been wrong so far and I'm not going to address it specifically because number one. I don't want to get them mm-hmm or the the crap that they've written any credibility but I'll just suffice to say if you've read it in a dirt cheat or online or in a blog. It's been wrong from day. One mice was never supposed to be before July twenty second. I mean they're really clear that was the understanding across the board but nonetheless it was reported across the boards early on by dirt sheet scumbags not to be named here and it was is reported wrong and anything that's been written and reported so far has been wrong in terms of what my role actually isn't what it will be and when my start will be that being said just get that out of the way if you've read it online. It's been wrong mm-hmm that being said I'm you know it's going to take me. This is not an in clearly a new this before. I took this job before I officially took the role and certainly even more acutely aware of now. This is such a big job that there's no way me or anybody else is going to walk in and take control of anything <hes> immediately. It's going to be a process process in my case. It's going to be a long process because it is a very big job and learning you know even the people that are involved in their respective roles in the processes that are involved in. It's just going to take time so it'll it'll be an evolution over time as a post to okay show tonight. That's not going to be the case with me or polar with anybody else <hes> it. It's it's a process in my process is going to begin really it started a little bit this this week <hes> in terms of my integration into the process but it'll it'll start you know becoming even more tangible <hes> on Tuesday which will be the first time I've even a attended a production meeting and like say over over period of time it'll it'll evolve and and change beyond that but <hes> like I said if you've read it online or read it in a dirt sheet kick yourself any Astra spending ten bucks a month for it and realized realized it it's been wrong. What do you think of the boys? We haven't spent a lot of time talking about them as people to my favorite people in the wrestling wrestling business I'm still tight with bullied to this day <hes> deep. I've worked with him in T._N._A.. There's not a not a cooler person that I worked within the rustling business <hes> in a nicer person that I've worked with an business in a in a more talented person in many respects. I enjoyed those guys from day. One <hes> the E C W pay per view that I participated in was the per semi really worked with them <hes> to any degree and I remember number going over the match and suggested finishes and things like that and then what up to bully and I said bully now what you need to do is is dragged me outside and throw me in a dumpster now. This wasn't a gimmick dumpster. After this wasn't a prop this was an I can't remember the name of that that little venue that they used to run in <hes> where was it <hes> Manhattan Center and Aunt Center Hammerstein Ballroom Rather Hammerstein ballroom. That's where the event was and Louis. The match took place and boy really do that. I said no yeah really let's do that. It'll be it'll be better than the crowd will like it but it'd be a better fetish to the match a look better on T._v. or pay per view so he he you know the finish of the match came in little he picked it be up and he threw me in a dumpster. This wasn't a gimmick dumpster. This was a legit outside in the alley working dumpstered that he threw me at linke looking back on a now is really stupid because I could've got knows where they could have come out of there with in terms of diseases but <hes> yeah and from that point on I think you know they saw that I was willing to do whatever I could do in my limited role to make the match better in tribute to better finish from that point on whenever I traveled <hes> I think I was the one that introduced a bully to <hes> premium Tequila as a matter of fact. This reminds me that I think silver patrol <hes> it was a percent yet ever had soler patrol own and we just got along ever since and their work is phenomenal for big guys. Characters were incredibly strong. Their work was great like I said to Greek is loved working with them. Bullies probably talked to bully more than Devante because we worked together pretty closely and in Tina as well as tasr but bully. I probably talk to more than anybody creatively speaking worked with more closely creatively <hes> really really love his take on psychology. Nobody's ever always right one hundred percent of the time or on the money hundred percent of the time but I think bully and I probably more than anybody were were sinked up you know we the light bulbs would go off in our heads simultaneously. When we were talking about ideas? I mean that's how closely we were kind of sync together side. I enjoyed working with musical guy. What about undertaker? You were around him quite a bit and your W._w.. Ron Any any memories of working with him or not really you know he's never really I probably in the years I worked in W._W._e.. Talent I probably had a total of three minutes a conversation with them over the course of five years you know He. He did his own thing he. I kept my head down laid low. I wasn't a Social Butterfly when I was in W._W._e.. I showed up on time kind of say to myself and minded my own business and did everything I could not to get involved in politics issues or anything that was going on backstage so I literally I'd show up TV and and I be on my computer on my phone and conducting my own personal business until it was time for me to go to work and and I'd go home so I never really had a chance to to talk to undertaker much. I ran into him in the U._K.. Here a couple months ago at at a convention invention and probably talked to him more there then. I did the entire five years that I was a W._W._e.. Super Good Guy. I've never ran an undertaker convention. No no just too bad. He's he's a great guy rick and I have around. He was busy all day long. That was my poor attempt to the story. I know sometimes the Best Uber Chris Subtle Stone Cold Man here is another level <hes> and there's going to be an interesting into into this pay per view can't wait to get your take on. I'm not going to say fine as the whole <hes> undertaker. Take Your Address as Kane thing we showed you must recently but it's pretty good good. I've been on the receiving end of that so called Steve Austin. Stop Down in the corner. It's intense. I mean is there. You know what's cool about. Obviously I mean Steve Austin was was a hell of an in ring performer. You know a technician mechanic. Whatever you know the script or you want to us but what really helped set them? Apart is he was such a strong interview and character. That's presence the bottom but really also had this gets talked about enough an unbelievable finisher one of the hottest finishers in the business and then you would see you know on the W._W._e.. Side of things Dhamma Douse page operate the same way I mean he got over the tremendous diamond cutter that really <hes> sort of took the business by storm. How important is having a really really strong finisher? If you WANNA be a top Godley thing I I think it's incredibly I mean it's the two things well. There's all the more than two things you have to. You have to be able to have a high work rate if you're working with great people at the very very top so it's not just your finish sure your work. Leading into the finish has to be great. You have to have a real grasp on psychology but I think at the top of the must have <hes> and there's a long list of must haves but at the very top of those must have <hes>. You've got to have a great promo. You've you've got to be comfortable in a microphone. You've got to be able to find a way to tell your story outside of the ring or at least with a microphone. If you're inside of the ring number one he is your character is a complete if you don't have the ability to really connect with the audience in that respect and then Marais below that in my opinion below that is your finish <hes> you could have the greatest finisher in a world but if if if you don't have a great promo you're not going to get to where you WANNA be <hes> but if you've got those two things at the top up <hes> in addition to everything else that tastes you're destined for greatness and I think you know you look at Beijing. You know there's a lot of parallels. I'm not putting them on equal plane. I'm not trying to suggest that but if you look at the parallels in the way they're characters developed. Steve Austin was like we said earlier in this this podcast Steve Austin was studying Steve Austin and he was other characters prior to that <hes> he got to W._W._f.. Of ringmaster Villes those were characters that didn't really fit him. He didn't really find himself until he became himself and turned the the volume up and became so called Steve Austin and I think the same could be said with Medalla page. He tried a bunch of different characters. There's none of them really worked until he just kind of became himself a blue-collar guy one of the people just an average guy that was in a great opportunity people could relate to that they they see themselves if they want to see themselves selves in you know they're living vicariously through you and so I think if you look at the parallels just in their characters <hes> when they became themselves in turn the volume up the audience really started related of now add add to the top of that you know the both had great finishers and they could both cut a promo and I think there's a lot of parallels between those two characters Kurt Angle in there right now. One of the all time greats one of the few who we're going to talk about who never had any sort of Ryan in W._C._W.. Or <hes> really another company at this point I mean this I wrestling company was the W._w._f.. And then we know of course is stopping impact for several years and now back with the company but Jericho of course on the alliance side of things or on the side of things he had been the W._w._f.. Had Steve Steve Austin ass had the undertaker and believe it or not even Glenn Jacobs Cain had had done some enhancement work there really but yeah but I did not know that mccurdy angle never did I if you would have been lucky enough or fortunate enough to have landed Kurt Angle and I guess I should stop there and ask. Did you ever have a conversation with Kurt Angle prior to him. sonning with <hes> the W now I never did and I know where the question is probably good but if I would have had that opportunity in all honesty I probably would not have taken advantage of it in ninety six especially. I wouldn't've felt he you didn't signed to be clear he didn't he didn't come on the scene until ninety nine so you would have had time by then of course W.. W was Helena handbasket. Who knows what what happened but <hes> it would have been interesting to? Let's see what you could have done with him on the W._W._e.. Side of things but she don't think maybe we weren't ready. We we would not have been the right it would have been horrible occurred. It would have been a huge mistake for Kurt and quite honestly in one thousand nine hundred nine. We were so dysfunctional I would not even seen the opportunity have been presented to me. That's just honest truth. I was blinded by dysfunction in chaos and distracted to the point where I would have seen great opportunity if it would have landed on my lap that's just the truth will give you another little known fact. Did you know did you know that long before brock listener landed W._w._f.. That Vern Ganja called me up on a Saturday afternoon. It said Eric. You've got to see this kid. I think you should sign him and I said well. Thank you burn up next time I get to Minnesota. Let's get together and we'll go take a look dot. You're GonNa Cammisa boat on this kid. I'm telling you Eric. You're gonNA miss the boat. Thank you appreciate the call. Let's get back together again soon. So Ver Vern Ganja actually tried to introduce me to brock listener prior to his introduction introduction to W._W._f.. And given the wit wisdom I failed to take advantage. That opportunity what's crazy to me is to thank you know like let's just fantasy book for a minute. Let's go back in time and let's say that you know after he turned down that every half because originally Kurt turn down that every specifically saying he wouldn't lose and brisk <unk> laughed amount of the office <hes> see tried his hand at being a <hes> you know Tele Television news sports broadcaster and did some endorsements for pizza joints and things like that in Pittsburgh within decided you know what I need to really take stab at this came back and also the races races and took to it like a fish water and it's one of the all time greats now but what if instead you know when you find out that it doesn't work out with you make it your mission your priority and he was finishing quote unquote wrestling wrestling school at the power plant and nine hundred ninety eight now Goldberg's hottest hell. You've got an Olympic gold medalist taking on the undefeated streak Goldberg that could have been pretty fun. No can you imagine that now yeah. You'd you'd have to play with the timeline quite a bit there but if you could have gotten occurred in so let's assume Kurt would have come into W._c.. What he went to W._W._e.? and Said Okay but I'M NOT GONNA lose. Pritchard laughs amount of the office he decided to get on a plane and come to Atlanta where he won the gold medal. I would have had a certainly would have gotten them. A meeting. Ted Turner just to impress the hell out of him and we would've sat there and Kurt would've after that meeting with Ted Ni- Kurt would I would have gone back and he said they'll look here's the deal I said this mcmanaman say to you. I'M NOT GONNA lose I would've I said no problem we can make that work now we wouldn't have had chew streaks going Simultaneously Goldberg on history and and Kurt Angle on history for maybe a year wouldn't that they have been fought unbelievable and would have been believable but can you imagine that I love fantasy booking. I can see why so many dirty writers do it. It's so easy and it would have been fun to to see what the talent will you know like mashes with him and Booker T. or mashes with him and Crisp Anwar in a him and Chris Jericho or Ramos Stereo or eighty guerrero. There's so many you had so many talents that we know he's going to have greater matches with or great matches with later but here on this side but I mean you had all that talent right then. It's just fun to thank SORTA. What if it's fun to think about no doubt about that no doubt about it? Could you imagine the imagine a conversations that would have gone on though once the because the locker inevitably here's everything can you imagine the conversations that would have taken place with all of the talent when so bishop sign this guy by the name of Kurt Angle you WanNa go gold medal but this is this is what we do here and he's not going to lose Oh. I can't wait to work with him. Can I work with him. I is I want him to beat me imagine that I don't think live through it. No there would have been so much that doesn't work for me brother yeah well from everybody yeah exactly yeah everybody what about Rhino Rhinos a name who recently popped up he allegedly according to the room and Innuendo and you know we know how that goes turned down the W._B._Z.'s offer saying that <hes> while he would have made more money. He felt like he wouldn't have been utilized when he wanted to be more active and instead opted to go to work with impact. You worked with him a little bit in both places then you get rhino stories. You can share with US look. We don't talk about him enough. You only Rhino Story. I we have not much of a story is I think we were on I is in W._W._e.. And we were on our way to Australia and we had a like a six hour layover in Hawaii or eight our later short-leg of run wasn't overnight but it was a long enough where they got us a hotel room just to resin and Rhino and I shared room in Hawaii and as when I found out that he grew up in Detroit and was as a Michigan guy and we like the same music and went to a lot of the same places and new not that we knew of some of the same people while we're in Detroit respectively but we realized we had much more common than we ever thought we did. So there you go boring is it. Maybe that's my only rhino or I shared a room with him. In waikiki sounds very romantic cuddle. No we know we didn't cuddle not not not there. We you know we got familiar on the plane and sat next to each other and she added but no there was no culling. I'm not a cutler said you familiar on the plane MEILHAC LA. No you dip shit. This is the first time in a long time blue. She's not a sponsor this week and I keep looking for Baluchi transitions but there's nowhere to go so you're listening listening. This doubt you missed out has had a blue moment in Hawaii with rhino sow chaos here ringside inside and it looks like what are the tables is about to get <hes> well. You know you think after all these years they'd beat those damn things up a little bit. You can take him apart like a display at Walmart. I'm GONNA remember this when exploding exploding tables on smackdown. Hey wait a minute. <hes> have you the new thing on the independence by the way that <hes> they're not using tables as much anymore now. They're using doors. I have not seen that what what what the logic behind where first of all where did they get doors. Well probably like a home depot our lows or something like that they reach under the ring and there's just like a random fricken door under the ring. Is it really that weirder than they're being random candlesticks under under the ring well. That's a little weird but even ladders I mean I was watching that with Jeff Hardy Robert Damage. I always ask myself which is stupid at this point. This is is sports entertainment. It's fancy. It's scripted. It's it is going to wear the wise and under their why is a ladder under the right. Now you could make the argument they're taking over during the course of the day if you've got to be able to get up into the ring and somehow because that that light you know the rigging light rig actually the beginning of the day is down close to the ring when they're hanging the lights and tweaking the lights and all that kind of stuff so you can kind of let yourself believe that there is a reason for a very tall ladder to be under the right I can I of can let that happen in my head without feeling dumb but tend to six garbage can lids don't fit that doesn't fit in some pipe pants. Okay now. Trash cannot could argue that well you know just just in case you know the announcers need to throw some stuff way or I'm by okay. I'll buy garbage can okay now convince me. There's a reason for there to be a wooden door under the ring I mean I think that falls in the category gory like they can't like. There's no it shouldn't be I agree. I agree but I bet this to the same thing with tables and we'll say this. I think if I were wrestler just again I know you know we're sort of poking fun tongue-in-cheek but you saw at the table was set up there in the corner and then Rhino just starts walking around very slowly. I would not do that in front of a table. I've seen enough wrestling to know this is a bad call for me Yep. I'd avoid them like the plague. I wonder how <hes> not one but to announce tables down here. Here's what I mean like. No I'm not walking in front of that. Oh there you bell have any in ring stuff with any of these characters very little with Kirk. Bully bubba already talked about Booker T.. You know I've never I don't think we've ever done anything in the ring. I don't know if I've ever think I've ever made contact with booker in the ring. Who is the quote unquote stiffest guy you worked with who really laid it in? Nobody nobody I've always been really fortunate in that respect <hes> trying to trying to think there was ever Shane McMahon back Shane. I mean Yeah Shane McMahon Yeah Yup the setup that I did when I storyline wise broke into the mkx band family home and made out with his mom <hes>. I think it was the very next T._v.. was going in it was an August is going into August because I was on my way to Sturgis that Bill Goldberg and I were both W._w._f.. When we were leaving TV on a private jet and flying to sturgis and my last my segment in the ring was the last segment and I had seen with Shane McMahon where he got into confronted me for breaking into his mother's house and ooh this is this is interesting finisher Shane Nakas data out with a belt Kurt Angle taking too but I was the last seen in the ring and involve Shane McMahon and he punched me in the mouth and split my lip loosened my two front teeth in then and the following implants by the way so that made it even more interesting and then the pay per view we did in August in Phoenix Summer Slam where he had me on a table as we're talking about in Steve Austin just kicked curb England the head and no matter what the Hell is going on T. and putting them on top and demanding Mike Iota Mike the Count now so he obviously got over the broken and issue clearly? He put that be item at this point. I love you for that. I don't know if you're paying attention but Steve Austin is now part of the alliance. He has defected from the World Wrestling Federation. He's now with W._C._W.. N._C._W. Little too late Steve where were you in ninety eight when that move about that guy in late that never brother become guy in the crowd new held up assign Austin Three Sixteen Steve just old out about that so there you go big celebration now with Vince McMahon who he joined at wrestlemainia seventeen but instead with Shane Stephanie McMahon and of course Paul Heyman. That's pretty good book. You know you gotTa admit that that was good booking. That's some that's a that's a good story story right there. Well and you gotta think it's because that alliance side is is sorta short on on starpower since we don't have so many of the C._W.. In W._C._W.. Talent let's let slot in and other tippy top guy. We don't have a sting sting. We don't have a Goldberg what's a Slot Austin over there and it off to the races and there and there's great backstory there with with Paul and Steve so it it makes sense. It's plausible it could happen. There's enough meat on the bone to be believable in backstory to be believable. I always love when that happens. I like it before we wrap things up. I WANNA tell everybody about a brand new podcast passed out there and if you're listening to this you probably love podcast and you probably love the deep dives that we do here on the show. I want to recommend the payoff. It's a brand new podcast that takes a weekly deep dive into a classic wrestling match along along with legend of the squared circle. This is unique because it's the only wrestling podcast focus on one match and then washing along with a wrestler in the match or someone else that has a unique perspective on what took place in the ring or behind the scenes and new episodes so drop every Monday morning and wait until you hear about this week's episode tell me they're covering the infamous Judy Bagwell on a poll match they actually watch along with buff bagwell him believe that's real. This should be wild so check it out anywhere you enjoy podcasts or find it on social media at payoff pod or just find it online. I knew browser right now. Pay Off POD DOT com remember episodes come out every every Monday last week. They did <hes> Eighty Guerrero and brock listener from no way out two thousand four a lot of our listeners check it out and they really dug it so check that out or judy will pay off pod. God check it out so overall. You know it's your first time watching the invasion pay per view. What did you think overall? I think it was done really well overall given delimitations mutations in a parameters and what they had to work with. I think it was really well done. The packages set up the story really really well would it could it have been better with all the after mentioned talent that's not there of course it could have been given what they had to work with and the timing of it all especially with this finish that we just saw I really liked it. I'll be interesting to go back in you know. Where did it go from here kind of thing <hes>? What did they do with that story going forward but based on everything I saw here I I liked it well? We hope view like this episode. Eric got to watch invasion for the very first time. It was pretty fun for what it was and we're looking forward to bring anymore. New content next week and spilling some more of the rumor and Innuendo next week will not be a watch walks along. We're going to be back at you in a more traditional setting. I'm a we appreciate you get an time machine and going back to visit. Something happened on this very day eighteen years ago. Tom Flies Man. It's weird because in two thousand one.

W._C._W W._W._e Mike Awesome Bill Goldberg Nick Patrick Patrick Eric Bischoff Eric wrestling Hulk Hogan W._C._W.. undertaker livestream Vince McMahon Paul Heyman breakthrough pain lance Mick Foley Earl Earl Charles Robinson Steve Austin Chuck Palumbo
Jesse "The Body" Ventura - SAS CLASSIC

The Steve Austin Show - Unleashed!

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Jesse "The Body" Ventura - SAS CLASSIC

"Thank you for listening to this podcast. One production available on apple podcasts and podcast one episode of steve austin show is brought anti-free today by our friends at bet online dot a._g. August keeps moving along the sports action is summer keeps heating up with tons going on in the u._f._c. major league baseball and now the n._f._l. Preseason get into mix bet online dot a._g. And use the promo code podcast one for your fifty percent welcome bonus online dot a._g. Online sportsbook x. burch and exclusive partner a podcast one sports net podcast one dot com production. He started in a small town in texas. It worked as ought to become one of the most famous wrestlers of all time. We're gonna take care of business tonight. And that's the bottom line the and now he's dominating the world of on-demand audio and he's doing it for the working man. This is a few abortion off my brain. This is steve austin all right but welcome steve austin show. I'm coming to the streets of los angeles california today. Hey i'm glad to be back. We'll be playing some of the most requested steve austin. Show classic experiment locked away in the archives. Got a great one for you this week and here's my producer shown john. Tell you all about it. What's up folks. It's producer sean bringing you yet. Another classic episode of the steve austin show today were doing jesse. The body ventura episodes number three sixty nine and episode number three seventy one original air dates october eighteenth two thousand sixteen and october twenty fifth twenty sixteen respectively our our combine these two episodes into one massive app focusing on the wrestling aspect of things <hes> as of course jesse fellow doty hall of famer along with steve steve talks a lot about his <hes> respect and reverence for superstar billy graham. How billy graham ended up influencing a lot of what jesse's sees character was that we've come to know and love in wrestling also how the navy seals training and his underwater demolitions experience prepared him for pro pro wrestling as pretty interesting comparison he does share there as well as getting into some of the nuts bolts of managing your copyrights <hes> as many people know <hes> jesse ventura tura had a copyright issues with the debbie in the nineteen ninety s <hes> one thousand nine hundred exact there was some contention of the use of <hes> the jesse the body of ventura name that jesse talk about in this podcast and <hes> you get to hear how that kinda shakes down also jesse talks about working on predator the difference between vince mcmahon junior and visit man senior as well as getting into broadcasting as the debbie announcer that many of us grew up with and you also touches on some of the discussions about wrestling unions and also around this time jesse was promoting his book jesse ventura's marijuana manifesto manifesto how wise corruption and propaganda kept cannabis illegal which you can still find today on amazon and other places you get your books so yeah pretty loaded episode missile today and the classic episode with jesse the body of and tara and of course up please check out your dude steve austin and his new show straight up steve austin monday nights after raw just had the debut this past week with rob riggle as his guests and this coming week is going to be salvo condo from the impractical article jokers so definitely check that out on the u._s._a. Network all right. Let's get into it this dane steve austin history today. Being august fifteenth we start off one thousand nine hundred eighty two for w. He w in jacksonville florida it's ricky steamboat defeating stunning steve austin then in one thousand nine hundred four at a pro taping and dalton georgia check got this match and i really hope this finds a way to resurface somehow on the hidden gems maybe thirty there. I don't know the network interfaces kind of scurry so <hes> how many this matches already there sting and ricky steamboat defeated dose of your world champion ric flair and w._w._f. Champion stunning steve austin as sounds like a hell of a tag match and then finally in one thousand ninety eight in saint louis missouri. It's w. f. World champion stone cold steve austin defeating the undertaker and kane in a triple threat match. I get my information from the history of w._b. Dot com all right folks. Thanks for listening and coming right up. We've got another classic episode for you with jesse. I see the body ventura here on the steve austin show a month august continues on the action across sports world world continues to heat up the n._f._l. Preseason already underway nothing better when football is back check out. What's on deck is weak and n._f._l. It's it's packers. Versus ravens the chiefs versus steelers the cowboys versus rams and the saints versus chargers. There's only one place that has you covered it at one place. We trust bet online dot a._g. Sign up today for free account a better line dot a._g. And use the promo code podcast one or text bet but now two two three eight six six nine to receive fifty percent welcome bonus met online dot a._g. Your online sportsbook experts and exclusive partners podcast one sports net stays on to lean sh- people take you over there where nexico it makes you in general. I mean you've been there for so long now. The i'm just a big ringo back in fact i went to issues. No fears guard dog never used them. What was your wife on board with you. When you went down there yeah. How have you been married since nineteen seventy five how successful chessel pro wrestler a successful politician bestselling author through all the trials and tribulations all those three lives. How what is the key gee. What is the key. The verse kia's love your wife and realize that she's part of you and you can't get along with honor and my wife is my partner and if i lose her. I've lost half of me. I couldn't do what i do without her. I don't have an entourage josh. I don't have all that. My wife does the computer. My wife books me. My wife is my assistant as well as my lover as well as my partner and and she's been that way it you remember in my world of wrestling. I was a loner. I didn't hang out. I didn't go to the bars. You know i was a loner and i did that for many reasons. I learned early on that generally anytime something happens after midnight. It's not going to be good few wives. I met her gaffed into pro wrestling. What seventy five sharkey sharqi yacht unroadworthy kansas well. I i was just coming out of the navy seals well. I met her in between i had come out of the navy and i rode with the mongols for awhile and then i went back home and i went to junior college for a year not knowing what i was gonna do i was on the g._i. Bill and i thought about pro football because it was actually at the time when the n._f._l. Had that first strike back in the seventies so they were hiring scabs and i thought about it i thought god i should just try out for for the vikings what the hell but i knew the goal guys will be back and once they came back then i lose my eligibility. I wouldn't be able to play in college because i had to be a pro at at that time so i went to junior college with the intent of playing j._c. Football and then getting a college scholarship to a big school while it was while i was in college in the weight room all the guys were wrestling fans and they would go to the matches and it was a little before that i was introduced to an infamous character character by the name of superstar billy graham and i don't care what anybody says. Superstar graham had more influence on rests young wrestlers at that time than anyone hulk hogan me. Every graham was the first body builder type that came in kiss and biceps and do an all i did was steal billy's gimmick and in fact verne ganja had me do it when i came to the awa me. The first thing he said to me is can you do superstar graham. I said i can do it better than he can. Good vern goes. That's what i want because he had just is lost graham and he needed a replacement for him but speaking a superstar billy graham yea his style and ring your stalin ring when it come to promos he had catalysts list along the lines of a dusty rhodes type thing but you had your voice and it was kind of still never lose early. Promos made w. a. until until it ended up with your commentary with w._w._a._f._l. Does now just going through the patients. Have you always had the gift of gab. I think so and i think i got up from my dad. Dad really yeah 'cause. I dedicated my previous book to my mother and father and i were too yeah. They're both w._w. Two kind the parents were they great bitterness. They were working parents like i was a latchkey kid. But what values are they instill in you independence in being able to take care of a yourself that nobody's gonna look out for you but you and and my parents were very into bed. I left every getting let's finish the wife story it who's in that transition that i took a second job working as a bouncer and i just i was in wrestling training and gone so boldly i'd already bleached my hair blond just as a lark with my buddies at college because we'd go and cheer for graham and everyone hated us you know we'd been out there cheering for the heels and and so i i was bouncing in the bar and this girl came in and i was still i'll say they tim had because i had spent seventeen months in southeast asia and when you come back to america there's certain things frighten you. You and one of the things that i had hard time relating to was women in the united states. It was just difficult and so i remember when my wife walked in. I was there with about four cops. We worked thing and she walked in and our eyes locked on each other and i told myself god. You've got to say something. You've got to get the courage. You've got to find it here too. There was just something where she got idead so when she got to me i just said so. I said excuse me. Can i see some i._d. Please and she goes but i just showed him and and so she dug around ham your license and i saw the name i am. Theresa and i handed it back a shed thank you. Theresa and i said i didn't really want to know how old old you were. I just wanted to know your name and that was my pickup line. She came up later in the night and we started talking and what really really hooked me was. I found out her father used to watch wrestling every night every week on tv and she remembered when the crusher there was a bad guy a- villain and i thought this woman has something here she knows wrestling. She's a fan and that and by that i i was now focused. I thought wrestling's for me because number one it gives me the athleticism of foot all and but even bigger when i was in college i got into. I got interested in theater and i did aristocracies. The birds and i love theatre was a combination. I thought this is it okay. This is theater athleticism combined. I can create but then comes the road jato. You've got the best of both worlds well. I i went down to kansas city single role and a central states right bob bob geigo pat o'connor hill. He was great. I like bob connor. He was a shiite shooter was well. He had made me go to the ring with them. Because i was new he made me go to the ring with them in the afternoon and he basically stretched me right and i you know what would i need that for already trained for nine months what point time why do i need to be stretched. You you know why i understand and the way they stretched. You also got me because you gave yourself to them. It's a completely different thing. If they tell you heads adds up defend yourself well. I might did some different things than you know other than a wrestling move of locking up away your training can't do it and then the guy takes you down and stretches yeah well. It's like real stores heard from stu hart. I mean you know the legendary stupid johnson. You're basically giving yourself to l. A. as a kid has that so you being stressed about a guy but you're there and you're going to go to a._w._s. Later but what were you working as in down there with pat o'connor working for google he'll i what was your name surfer jesse ventura i wanted i wanted to be from california and i surfed left when i was younger in the navy and all that and i thought who they hate more than a beach bomb that which is what they classify a surfer even though they're not it's surfing's like a religion and that you wouldn't call a religious bomb you know but but so i thought surfer jesse ventura's a great from cal san diego california foreign young bleached blond hair just sits on the beach with women all day he he's this guy that it could kick everybody's bought but yet when the going gets tough if he's a coward but you already thinking about this at the formative years man who yeah i was riding down in tennessee and you know dutch or dutch mentality auto call me stunning steve austin i was a cocky arrogant sure that was end of it and in putting thinking behind the gimmick you were already thinking about the show biz ass <music> out it before you probably even mechanically inclined. I mean to me i mean because you just came out resum school so you're not going to be the greatest yet right right by your forward thinking because you're already thinking about the gimmick. Do you know what made me feel good. I had my first match in wichita. Kansas and i'll never forget it with omar atlas. We know him now. Hell of a good little worker. Stocky built a latino guy omar atlas and geigo come up to me that night and he says well kid you know so nobody wins their first match. I said i know he turns to omar said omar. This was his kids first match. He said take care of him out there and he gave omar the option. He said if the geigo says if the matches dish it him to drop kicks in cover at one two three he said if the match is good have him throw out out over the top rope because in those days that was a disqualification show he left it to omar omar could've put himself over. We got through the match or during the match cape time omar whispers to me. I'll over the top kid and so i lost him over. The top kept my heat. Course you lose but you don't really lose because he's on the floor. You're prancing around but i always respected omar for that. I thought here's a guy who saw my potential. Oh and he didn't put himself in front of it. So years later when i was broadcasting for vince all mar used to come in as one of the job is i would put him over on the mike unbelievable no matter if he lost. I still made him look good on the mike and i thought here's there's payback omar for you taken care of me. I'm taking care of you now. I remember when i want to jump ahead just a quick story ninety two when you came into w._c._w. One one of the things i was so thankful for was maybe we're just doing your job but you always took care me down there because i liked you. I know i saw our shit. I never forgot no. I saw talent when i went to w._c._w. And i'll tell you honestly i went there just for the money. They gave me a big money to come to say. I was a steal from vince threat vince booted me out. Why don't you because i wouldn't sell my toppy right of lightness to him. I didn't know that was the final straw. The final i know straw was i i own jesse the body ventura i own the copyright of it and i refuse to let him have it without him giving me some type of royalties royalties for it and that was an i had a video game at the time that was interested in using me and vince would let me do it and so that's when i quit and left him because i said vince you don't own me i own me. I was jesse the body before i ever came here. I have that in my note. When did you copyright jesse the bite of interro because because nobody at that time had the wherewithal trademark something. I probably the first time ever. I don't know i just did it in the i did it in the early eighties when i took the the main because i thought i don't want anybody have in this but me i want to own. I'm jesse ventura made the name. I love the name jesse. I wanted to be from california so i matched up to a map and when i saw ventura had the ring so i created it and so i felt i deserved of creator the copyright of it so i don't know why but i i had enough sense to know copyright this with the federal government and show vince could never owned in my name he had to license. It threw me but was it a video game. There was a tipping point and the fact that she wouldn't sell the name yup. God day and that's that's. That's what let me go he couldn't he couldn't allow anyone out of the circle amend amend the reason i beat him in court was he. He could have won 'cause he's not required to pay royalties but it came out in court. Certain people were getting royalties. It's called quanta. Merida's hogan hogan got royalties. Cindy lauper got royalties. Mr t. got royalties. There were k. five and everybody else yup and allies. They care may lie in negotiations associations because if you'll recall when the night i went into the hall of fame i said the thing i'm most proud of is the fact that i was the first wrestler slur that introduced vince to an agent at all god. You should see vince crowd. He was ready to punch me. That's the fiji wants to be remembered for but but it worked because my agent protected me but she only got the age of because of predators right yeah a predator yeah but i have to quit vince right you told them hey mass gig big. While did you hear the story about how vince wasn't and let me do it. Yeah i had to quit. I said i quit. I said who's going to get a chance co-star with arnold. I said i always come back to wrestling. That'll should i quit so i left him and then it was during then that arnold approached me about the running man and so i- inc that before i vince sent word wanted to talk to me because embassy main event was hit hit on him. Where's jesse ventura. They bought it with you with me and i wasn't there and so i waited till i signed. The running man had it in my pocket for the fall then i went to vince and i told him. Vents are going to talk to you unless you talk to my agent. He handles my career completely and your the only one that he doesn't convince argued and i said well. It ain't good enough. Here's here's his number so fincher course got he didn't do it. He got an a somebody else to act as his agent but they live because every year i'd negotiate we would ask what about videotape royalties. We don't pay them while you're not allowed to do that. You're not allowed to lie during negotiation and that's how i won the case and i call it steve my wrestling retirement because i i've gotten quarterly check since nineteen ninety whatever it was and some of them are pretty healthy <music>. You're not so big today because it's years have gone by but i i've gotten checks that are upwards of six figures in royalty not pavements and i call it my. I said i'm the only wrestler that has up retirement. Go into the that's. Why vince won't we'll bring me back to the mania like you'll bring you back and all this. He won't bring me back because then by law he's required to pay royalties if he produces zac ripe. I wanna go back. We're gonna end up talking about the two thousand nine rod that she returned to assure the guest g._m. But when i left the business and i didn't know what i was going to do when i left that business i wasn't ready to my neck was telling me hey you need to get out of here. In years. I just kinda did nothing san antonio a lot of hunting fishing and like i said quite light forging. You made a lot of money though yes sir so record shape. I was in good shape but i figured hey minute's time to get off your ass and not l._a. Do something because before i was in reservoir self driving a forklift and the wrestling game teaches you a lot of things but it doesn't qualify you for nothing so now when i faced that steve we had the blood clots. Yes the night before hogan right. I laid bed going. I have two children and i'm going if i can't wrestle again. What do i do you know three. M's not gonna hire me and i'm not qualified to do anything but when i came out to los angeles i started taking some meetings and this time after time you know we were trying to get a hold of you back when you were with the w._w._f. Because we wanted you in this or that or whatever korea are you kidding. Me didn't tell you you're right. I was so hot. I was pulling wagons so if you've got a lead horse pulling the wagon you don't want to lead horse going off and doing what you were able to do so missed opportunities but you know what finally got for me. I let vinson when i did the first episode of hunter t._v. Show freddie drier and i got my royalty or by check for it and vince to cook vince took up forty percent commission those and i and i sit that's ridiculous. Nobody takes more than tan well. How the hell does this guy 'cause. I found a bury. My agent called me and said did. Did you get your check from hunter. I said yeah i got my and i said what i got and he went dead silent on the other end. I should y berry. What was the payments supposed to be he he said well. You better call the w._w._e. W._w._f. Adam said i can talk money. So i called ed cohen. I should add threatened him. I should add you call barry bloom and tell him he can talk money with moore. I'm going to beat the next time i see and so yes he called buried says yeah you can and then i found out i had a fifteen hundred dollar payoff and vince is paid me seven hundred that's what it was very bloom got his ten percent ma and vince to my check was for seven hundred dollars when the payoff was fifteen gene very bloom got one hundred and fifty vince took the rest and i thought heim eliminate him. He didn't do nothing. I got this part. He had nothing to do with whatsoever whatsoever when you first got an envoy said that pro wrestling got you read for politics got you ready for acting because being behind the stick sure on on a gig yep did being in the navy navy seals help you or professional wrestling. Oh yeah especially not only did it. Make me physically prepared for it and made me mentally prepared for it because the thing that going through buds basic underwater demolition she'll when you graduate because only about twenty five to twenty percent of people make it the thing that that it really instills in you is the will never to quit that no matter how tough it going or how sad you're feeling for yourself. Most of the time admits your own sadness. That's doing it. Pick yourself up. You've been whenever i would get no situation great wrestling or anything with the going got tough. God i think back to buds going. This ain't nothing compared to lift and telephone poles in the mud when you haven't slept for two days. You know what what the hell. This is a piece of cake compared to what i was trained in your prepared that but fortunately i was eighteen nineteen years old when i did it in your your body can do all that then but no. I've used my navy training. It's also made me punctual. I'm the type of person that i do not like arriving arriving not on time and that comes right from the military because in in the military <hes> you'd if you're told to be there at eight o'clock. You're there at seven fifty five eight o'clock. Don't mean eight oh two and if that happens to you in the military you're gonna pay a dear price for being late. Late is not accepted in the military. Listen to you talk. Go back to promos for just a second. I'm jumping all over the shirt with you. Did you like listening to the businesses businesses. I know another grim grey. Well how you wait. You know how much i liked graham. My buddy taped always interviews on a cassette and we used to drive around at night and i listened to them over and over and over again really oh yeah i would. We had nothing but superstar graham. The interviews probably a dozen of them all on a cassette player and i would as i drive. I would listen to graham and listened to his rap and listen to you know the way he did it. What with that comes a lot of things. I like about you know his promos. Your promos your commentary or speakers that are running for politics. Politics is cadence delivery pacing you know when i watched some of the g._o._p.'s of politics in a minute if you want to but but man speech patterns to me it's natural now or right but don't you think that's a key thing is to try to rope someone in or to command their attention engine or to keep them riveted. I'm sure good content but if you're not you're convicted and everything you say i think it's a big part of agreeing promo if you don't if if you don't believe it even though it could be totally out of left field or from a hill perspective who else is gonna believe i'll give vince credit for that in a way saying you can have carte blanche launch the gig vince i'll never forgive yourself from the blood clots yeah very hogan row k. when i went down with the blood clots was due to go around with hogan in a three match program. God knows how much money that cost me. I mean you know you talk in nature. League money is with the champ three match program and i lose was it <hes> my dear old the late. John stud replaced me bless him. He would have been probably my first choice if i said if give him the money you know big john because i love big john we traveled together one of the few guys i would travel with which john stunned while while i was laying in bed i they went through the dilemma of what am i gonna do if i can't wrestle again. If this is the end of my career what the hell gonna do go back in the navy or you because you know what am i gonna do well then when i was convalescing and i'll give vince credit he paid me while i was out a while not a lot but he gave name your fouls in a week wow hurt of yeah. He paid me fused up in two thousand. He paid me a thousand dollars a week. Well i knew he wasn't going to keep doing that without getting insight mata the skin or the hide so he called me one day and it was his idea he said jesse got an idea an explosive one the ones ever put a heel on the mike. He said you think you could do color commentating while you recoup. I said sure i can do that and and so he came up to me and i'll never forget the first night i was going out with monsoon and vince comes over to me and i give him credit he said jesse. Here's here's how i want you to broadcast. This is your mental position. If you believe it it's true that's all he said to me. If you believe it it's true and he sent me out with that to where i could do anything i wanted and i really had for a time <music>. I'm the greatest job in the world because i there was a point. I worked one day every three weeks. I made unbelievably good money and i i got to insult my boss on a regular basis on nationwide television and he loved it. You couldn't get in trouble for me. Insulting the boss was your preparation what personnel talking about okay before that note no preparation commentary for them. No we do show oven react. I react i remember when i went to the first saturday night main event n._b._c. You are now with dick ebersol seven cameras nine in cameras. N._b._c.'s come in holy. What is this and i remember going up to the broadcasting and those as big spiral notebook up there and i opened it and it was vince says dish jesse says this vince says this jesse says this and i read it and dick ebersol walk by sedik camille. I said what's this that your script. I looked at dick dick. I said two years ago. You didn't give a rat's ask about wrestling. I said now we're the hottest thing out. There and i'm happy you're here. We're all onboard but i said who in your staff of writers. Haters is qualified to write for jesse the body ventura. I know wrestling they. Don't i said no one. You have no no one who can write for me. No one can do it. Only i can dick ebersol was so good and so professional. He sat there a moment any kind of furrowed his brow will and he said you're right. Push that to the side. Don't even worry about it. I went thank you dick she he he got it that my i respond to what happens in front of my eyes. I can't go on something. That's pre written to do wrestling and nobody he can write and tell me how i would respond to it. Nobody but also you said like <hes> and your debate notes. No in your speeches reaches our governor mother than the state of the state the state of the state you have to be exact and you do that off a teleprompter and you going in practice asset but otherwise you'll just live yep always. I never used a prepared photographic memory go. Y'all just have a great memory. I don't also you'll have a hard time doing script sometimes right but or if somebody writes me a script i have i have some difficulty in taking those words into memory okay because i love predator so much i mean there's one liners heavy there. Okay so then with anything the most i i don't like memorizing stuff the most difficult script i ever did and i don't know if you've ever seen my episode of the x files all you need to see my x files. Episode showed why play a man in black and the x. files all boys that dot they wrote stuff there steve i got to i didn't even know what i was talking about. You know that <hes> who's the guy that does x. Files i forget his name. He's real fatal y anyway but you memorize it all right yeah just to know what you're saying. Yeah just didn't know what i was saying because it was so x. File if it was like i was a man in black and it's a great story. It's called jose chung something something or other other and the guy who was in it was charles nelson reilly remember him yeah. He's got one of the lead roles in it and it's a great episode got rated. One of the top ten connects file episodes in history. Okay well. Let me ask you a question. Do you do predator. You got running man. I can list a slow movies. You did some the holidays and stuff up what said the you are. How did you just say i'm done with acting. It's time to go do this. No i never said it. I didn't make the right choice. How well when i was down in mexico arnold said to me one day just see. When are you going to move to l._a. And become one of the boys and i turned to arnold two small children and my kids were young then she's not the eighties they late eighties and i should we'll arnold. I said howard the schools and he thought he gave me the best answer but he gave me the worst one. He looked at me and said oh. You don't worry about that. You send your kids to private school. Well to me. I sat and thought do i want my children growing up in a city where they're required to go to private school where the the public school system is so bad and living. There is so bad in minnesota. Our public school system is award-winning and i thought i'm not taking my kids and raising them in l._a. So i didn't move out here. I stayed in minnesota and stephen hurt me because it's like anything you know about your outta sight outta mind. You gotta be here. You gotta do the negotiating you gotta do the dinners you gotta do all the behind the scenes lack of better term bullshit. You know you got to do that. I didn't because my children and i don't regret it today at all. I felt my kids were we're better raised in minneapolis minnesota than they would ever be raised out here and my son learned quick enough because when he turned nineteen guess what his first job was he was assistant to sean and now if that don't teach you hollywood nothing will know my son developed sean sean penn had him as his assistant for three years he was with him when he won the academy award for mystic river when he when he directed jack nicholson in the pledge edge my son was right with him and he sean taught him the ropes of hollywood and today my son got nominated for an emmy and he does his own show on russian. Shouldn't t._v. called the hawks. I know when you wrestled. You had a passion for the business. Because you grew up watching it was the best of both worlds athletically and the accurately so you got into the business serves a passion there. Did you have the same passion for acting that you did for the wrestling business or was it just something to do because you weren't wrestling anymore and the art of the evolution milwaukee. I had the passion russian for it but i didn't have the passion for the networking. I have the passion to do. I loved it. There isn't a more fun thing to do in a movie. I disagree i just i just i said intermix while i like it. I'll tell you what i like it. When you go go to location right because then you become a family you're all. I hate doing movies in l. a. because everybody goes home at the end of the day and you don't if you don't live here you go to jail. That's why when we did predator. We ron location in puerto vallarta staying all in one hotel then you become a family then then you ought to me. There's more camaraderie in the finished product of knowing we did this altogether from prop bashar to the whatever data ah we required us all to do it. How was that were gonna predator because i know you had fun. I know you're ribbon arnold jim stories with him and then then whoever's bodyguards fans so you get to the gym early. Let john mccain and says man with jesse. I came on and it looked like your focus have been good at that time but he had a dog you dan little bit. Yeah was it because you were so big because you're used to playing the wrestling audience though what was because i went back. What do you mean. I went back back. I actually i actually had a few dream those down there so you would react to vietnam. Oh that's where it came came from. I was back the smell the weapons shooting now. I went back no wrestling at other times. Hey guys i can compose myself or what i never had to get to that point but i remember my wife came down and told me that one point i bolted straight up in the middle of the night right and i explained dolt worthy areas all secure and i enrolled over and went back to sleep again and she was startled because in our life together i have never had any the type of thing like that happened before but when i went to do predator old things came out old and see for me. It was an easy movie to do because yes. I just went back to what i was trained to do. You know how to do everything and i actually me and gary goldman. Were the were the i we were there a week ahead of time and we we're the ones that taught them hog original green beret and now we taught the patrolling he would always put me at rear security so i could watch everybody else and then critique at the end of an and i feel proud because i've had many military people come up to me and say that the patrolling in predator is the most authentic they've ever seen because we kept our spacing. I used to fight with mckiernan on that. Go you've got. Everyone cramped up one round in the middle. You lose your whole platoon. What the hell l. and i had to learn. Were shooting a movie. We're not doing a documentary. This is a navy seal training film this is you're doing a movie for entertainment to at that point. You wanted to be authentic if you're going to represent well that just came out in because i sat you've got us too crowded together. Were in daylight. We would have ten meters between us. All you don't want to wear one guy could take out half the platoon. I have no training whatsoever but obviously that makes sense had had you not had the blood clutch. Had you done the run with hogan. Had you remain physically healthy enough to stay ring speculation. How much longer anger would you stayed in the business. Who knows who know who knows if you'd ever got the broadcasting me as good as your ring. You were ten times as good on the mike yeah aw oh yes no. It's a compliment because in my day of wrestling i remember old timers would tell me the they'd say say you don't you don't draw the match doesn't draw for what happens in the ring matches. You draws for what set on the mike and i took that to heart right away. It's the key is what you say on the mike. The ring workers actually secondary. You have to be able to back up yes but look at how many guys were phenomenal on the mike and couldn't work right rozema or crowd psychology because one of the things that we asked you because you're you're so good at explaining things and just people don't understand dan. What do you think is the key to getting over. Say the business of wrestling it could almost be a parallel of getting adding business but let's talk and getting elected yes because because like you said i know you said you're selling yourself yeah. Well the key the key to virginia charisma. What is it well. It's talent. It's charisma's focus and it's also you after immediately. I would go to the ring and find the first mark i could that would interact with me and i draw him came out he or she and the minute you involve the crowd. You got them right. You got it. I remember people ask me who is is your favorite person to wrestle and always go tito santana because for some reason tito is style blended perfect and tito knew me knew how i needed to work and was he was so wonderful he and i we had cases where the absurd say ten minutes gone and we hadn't touched and the match was too and and yet the people had been up and down out of their seats three times and we haven't mm touched. I just be an tito would allow me to be me and then his timing was phenomenal when it was time for him. He trusted me new. I'd give it to him. 'cause i knew you gotta. Give the baby face. Do you know they got a beach you up at some some points so you can be a coward but when you call him chico the way you said it and you compare them not going to man but i figured man. He's gotta be tight with tito because on one hand it. It angers the people so much getting him over his name is tito but i just figured you guys will oh yeah. I did that with everybody because they're also also. We've been significant to me. Make sure to stick around after this podcast to get the latest headlines from a._b._c. news minute jordan here. I know a lot of you. Create your own podcast. The already have one like me. Obviously love what i do. It's taken a lot of hard work to get to this point of success. You shouldn't have to pay these for platform hosting distribution for bution analytics or fees to create a podcast. We need to be able to focus on producing the best show possible now podcast one. That's network. I'm on launchpad digital media or launch pad d._m. 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We never were maybe bache government. You've never never say what's win. Once beginning middle middle portland portland okay know what happened there. I i work baby face for maybe a situation baby. He'll turn baby <hes> i had left and gone to hawaii and so they worked a split between me and buddy rose. I was teamed with buddy rose that so we did a split between buddy buddy was staying so he stayed. He'll i actually ashley switched to baby face for that brief program of a few weeks and then later when they brought me back don flu men right before i worked for vern vern. He flew me in because he had lost snooka and he needed someone to go against rose show. He flew me in for two week program to work with buddy out in portland right before i started with the awa but then i'm imagining that was an edgy baby-faced who is making it was a turn based on the story like oh yeah totally situational national situational all the way other than that never. Did i work baby. Face number was i brought in as one never wanna be one because baby faces couldn't recreate. That's interesting as a heel. You could create baby face. It was mom apple pie in the girl back home. You couldn't insult no one. You couldn't be controversial unless there was the old saying steve from before your day they gotta hate you before they can love ya yeah but and i've always i've always thought the wall as a heel. You have so much freedom. Yes eh you face. You can trip on about him not to say you want to be accommodating but you can. You can screw up up and it's okay. Is that baby certainly hit. You had creativity or freedom not as much as the original question was what it this this way i wouldn't have made no money as a baby face okay but the real question what is your definition of our explanation of how you get over because like you said we've seen charismatic talkers who really can't work at much. We have great runge so what is the factor so we glossed over that but everywhere you go or those running for mayor whether he's running for governor you want and you were the reform or your independent so you can make people like you what you really good at making people hate you. You don't think you could add a successful baby because here's what i think superstar billy graham was like the d._v._d. They made almost twenty years ahead of his time had been senior had the foresight like lookalike vince mcmahon did with me you know the the double determined bread he would have been a monster baby had he let him run but he drops the title tobacco and he goes off the reservation and it was never the same same. Could you could you maybe face because you can get people to vote for you. Tell yourself. I guess you make great arguments. Guess i'd never had the opportunity you to me. My ads stink was to be a he'll be too. I never wanted to be a baby. Finish leader never run never i oh i didn't want i didn't want it never never was except for the situational short time with buddy rose where we split the team up and we went our separate ways but other than that i i was always a villain always wanted to be one didn't want to be mom apple pie in the girl back home because i just felt that wouldn't allow me to create like i wanted but also pulled back in that day. You couldn't have got away with some of the stuff that i was getting away with which was considered cooler. I i was very abrasive but i had a very physical work. Stop but i was talking so much much trash people back in the day. It was more traditional. The busiest hadn't evolved to word had say ninety six ninety seven yeah. Oh yeah absolutely that's like when people say to me who's the greatest wrestler of all time i go. You can't answer that. I always remember this year the olympics when <hes> bellcore ally the the gymnastics coach they started to pin him down that girl today or nadia coleman. Each and bella was great. He said that's impossible. He said there are two different eras. You cannot compare to different eras both were unique in their own way and wrestling's the same way you can't name like insa- hulk hogan's the greatest ever or bruno was the greatest ever steve austin's the greatest ever they were the greatest for their era and you have to just like baseball henry aaron homerun king you know babe ruth home run in king right. That's their own era of time when they do it and because one actually beach the other in number weather's a lot of things that could cause that you and all the balls livelier at flies farther who knows you know whatever it could be. That's the reason you can never make comparisons between decades two decades because it's a different different time. It's a different place in different elements in place and how the business was perceived when you first came in and w what year was that because that was the old man run into territory in at eighty one eighty one yeah what was the difference between and everything evolves but still it was pretty it was pretty specific between the old man and then taking taking it over with his dad. Sell the territory him. My question is what is the difference between the old man and working with thence well. The difference was as as a promoter. The old man was the smoothest ever. He heard that you could go into him. I went into him so angry. One one day when i met with senior walked out achieved nothing and felt good and i'm and ten minutes later. I was pissed again because i thought he schmoozed me. I got nothing in a yet. I left like i won and and i didn't he where the kid he. He didn't have something he didn't have that. The old man had the old man could like. I i said give you nothing and you felt. He gave you the world right and i don't know how he did it. He just his whole persona and you know his gentlemanly. He never raised his voice. He was a complete opposite of any go man never never talked loud in fact he barely he would anything anything. He always had his own villains. That passed on his bad news never came from him. He had other people that would give the bad news out on anything and and that was then of course though aside with vinny the kid the old man kept his allegiance to the old promoters and all that stuff where when vinny came along vinnie was good and i'll call him vinnie as opposed to vince senior because he had a dream and a vision and and he wanted and i maybe he wanted to beat his dad. I don't know maybe it was you know what i'm gonna. Take this colossal great thing my father created created and i'm going to be dr frankenstein and take it to a level that my dad would never have dreamed it could have gotten to any. Did i give vince crowded credit. He's the p. T. barnum of of the generation and <hes> you know one thing about vince you'll gamble to the year we did football and all that on don't ask joe roll the dice so real quick on promoters. Oh working with geigo donald portland francis in hawaii hawaii vern ganja in minneapolis vin senior new york. Give me a common thread of all those guys operating and you're in there for as far as psychology of trying to keep all the boys in an estate of everything's cool because you know what the egos and the common thread between all of them okay okay. Here's the they screw the boys over. That's the common for ad. They all have their own waves. They all have their own techniques but essentially they're doing the same fake but you give it to you. Give it to events senior for being the smoothie to all. He was the smooth stopper like i said steve. I wish you'd have gotten a chance to work for him. You too walked in so angry over something and you to walk out feeling he solve the whole thing and then ten minutes later. You realized he didn't solve anything by it. Got me out of the office and got me off my high horse and he accomplished what he needed to get done but i'll give you something didn't deal with him in your later years because you don't have been through the business and worked and moved on but vince junior he assume those qualities because i had many dealings with him but i was on the same page aged with him one time we had a meeting catering and it was one of those things where everybody gets together and rally caps on and get morale up anybody have any questions and one particular person stood up and asked a question and i don't remember the question but it was so basic you knew what the answer was going to be and met spun that person around allen in just you could see the cycle going and then the person goes okay and sits down and everybody in the room except that person knew that they got hoodwinked yup. They witnessed it firsthand so i've seen many cases of other guys things about going and see the old man and all of a sudden everything's hunky dory and the door slams. You can't go back and five seconds later. I didn't get anything accomplished. You know what the greatest compliment i was ever paid. I've heard this was freddie. Blassie asi es classy shredder ass shot yup freddie one day apparently when when i was at the height of the whole saturday night main event i had my own dressing room never asked for it but all of a sudden i got address with my dame. All this and i heard freddie stood up one day with the boys and says there's only one guy i in this old territory that calls his own shots with vince and that's jesse ventura. I can't tell you haven't known old grumpy freddie blassie if you ever met him but it freddie that that's the greatest compliment fred could have ever given me and he'll always be dear in my a heart more so than managing me was for what he said that there's only one guy that calls his own shots would vicks garden and and fred when she'll up. He's getting these up conversations with god just respect and he had this charisma about imagine yeah yeah like you said for god. I got to put you over yeah. At some of the things i've done a veteran will put you over and see that was good. It doesn't mean anything about tickets. Sold is if that person dated thought about you yachts ons for freddie to say that that was always made me pride to sit for an old timer to see that i read that you never ever signed a contract. Never have any capacity never ever been. Everybody else signed a contract. I guess i didn't look out for everyone else. We're individ- independent contract vincent speak. Wait vigneault your vince wait vince vince is lucky. I didn't go for the senate because had i gone into the senate. I would have started a senatorial investigation as to why pro wrestlers a called independent contractors when they're not you work for one company they order you around. They control your whole life. How are you possibly an independent contractor contractor except for they don't have to pay your social security. That's why and <hes> vince is lucky that i never got to the senate because i would have investigated data bat because to me look at the thousands of dollars. It's cost all of us wrestlers to have to pay fifteen percent or whatever it is is an independent independent contractor on our taxes. That's a b- that's been under my saddle. Since i began wrestling. I thought we are not independent hamden contractors. I can't work for another promoter on wednesday and then work for you on friday. It don't work that way. How are we independent contractors actors. You brought up the idea of union way back in the day. What was it eighty four. No it was <hes> right before wrestlemainia to okay because i left a dude predator and became part of the screen actors guild and before i signed with vince i told him don't worry about union vince i got mine okay if they don't want it. That's their fault but when you brought up the the idea. Did you have any design on how to run what you know accomplish all. I wanted all i did. It was wrestlemainia to two weeks before it all the publicity at gone out it would the vantage was ours. See jesse ventura studies business. The advantage was hours. I stood. I waited needed so there was no agents around. I stood up in the dressing room and i gave a speech to the boys and this was at the time we were still babbling charlotte and i i said if we go together and simply tell the media we are not wrestling unless union negotiators by federal grow law. Come in and give us the opportunity to unionize. I should guys the people that turn on the lights in these buildings are union i. I said they have to do it by law. It's in our favor then. If we engage the charlotte guys to do the same thing we can have the union in wrestling. I gave this big speech. I left it. If i went home the next night i got a call from vince who basically chiclayo threaten to fire me if i ever brought it up again and read me the riot act and then went and did wrestlemainia to and immediately left after did predator and was a member of the screen actors guild now my union that i get retirement from now healthcare from all of that from and so when i came back to vince i told him point blank vince i won't ever bring up union again. I said if these guys are too stupid to fight for their the rights. I have meyer union now. I'm a member of the screen actors guild. I get health care. I get retirement. I get everything from them. I'll pay my union dues. As you won't hear from me well then when i sued vince we had to depose him and on the way out i told my lawyer the story and in-depth position mission you can bring up anything and i said if you can david find out who ratted me i said find out who ratted me that day because one of the boys because there were no agents there and so we got in there vincent mike turney was grady says mr mcmahon he said has there ever been a union in wrestling vince vince mel. Anyone ever tried to form one vince adamant. It says well yes as a matter of fact i think jesse ventura spouted his mouth off about at once years ago wpro am i attorney goes. Well hoddinott that. Did you hear him no well. How did you know he spouted as my he didn't even hesitate. Hulk hogan told me i was sitting in the chair at a deposition. You didn't sell it at a deposition. You can't talk you gotta before i was there. It was like someone punched me in the face. This was my friend and and i thought hogan betrayed me. Hogan called vince and ratted me was an office stooge in my day see that's what they were called that was that was a low life an offer somebody who reports to the office in the old days and it stunned me stunned stunned me i sat there in the chair and i couldn't even think that it was hogan and then and then vince admitted it on larry king to and and there's no reason for him to lie he's under swore an oath and then hogan continued aliabad it and said he didn't do it and i've never spoken to him sense and i don't care too because he sold in my opinion hogan showed me out and then i found out in the trial why well in the trial we got the records words of wrestlemainia three the big one him and andre while hogan made more money than all of us combined including andrei you took the payoffs of andre and the whole rest of the card hogan made more than we did so naturally he didn't want a union that that could even out the money a little bit more and when i saw that he made more than andrea and all of us combined then the picture was crystal clear ear to me that he sold us out because he was getting taken care of and he didn't want nobody else horning in on the good deal the ad how i was going back in two thousand nine when general manager for night of monday night role and you got a chance to interact with a couple of promos and ended coloring to match ah y'all clicked right back into the gear for me. I took it as that when they flew me there. I turn to my son because my son came with me that night and i turn to tie. I said please bear with me tonight but this is an opportunity for one night for me to go back and be and so did you notice i feel and everyone was going to cheer me and i right away turned and went villain. I did that on purpose. I said i want to be the old jesse see and so i went there and went against all the baby crap and went total villain and what it did. It gave me a fleeting moment of enjoyment orient of what it used to be. It's like anything in life when you leave something and you never do it again. Rarely you get an opportunity to relive the feeling thing and that's what it gave me for that one night after the lawsuits after all has to be it was business just business just business business vince was treating me fine. We both scratching each other's back. I can't complain about vince because here's here's here's the thing i'm embarrassed over stephen. I think you were part of this. The biggest pay day. I ever received in wrestling was when i refereed the match action. Minneapolis was governor ninety eight or ninety nine ninety nine what i say. I'm embarrassed over that as a wrestler. How can i say my biggest payoff was being referee. I'm a wrestler referees. Come on those are the old washed rushed up guys or the guys who couldn't wrestle in the first place. I want to be in the business no offense to the referees but here. I'm getting the biggest payoff i've ever gotten in my life and it's because i'm a fricken wrath. You know that part of it was tough to take the m