1 Episode results for "Venison Serena"
Wimbledon Re-Lived 1997 - Martina Hingis: Sixteen, Sassy, Sensational
"Hi! This is Marion Bartoli. Mats Wilander. This is Mary Carillo I'm rowing. I'm like I'm Andy, Murray this is Yannick. Noah and you're listening to the tennis podcast. Hello, folks and welcome to to Middle Sunday of Wimbledon or what would have been middle Sunday with molden possibly one that they would have been playing on given the. Whether in London this week has been utterly ropy. Resumes Its middle Sunday of Wimbledon relived courtesy of the tennis podcast the. Insatiable desire for podcasting if David Law how're you doing David. Some would say that it's still should be middle Sunday. Allow us here we are. And and I'm delighted that actually. Partly because we've just been getting to watch another player that we love to watch. Who was going to be the feature of this one but also? Quite, talking to ut really. Can't get enough of it literally how you doing Matt sleep-deprived. I'm not allowed to be sort of snooty about doing it now. After is lovely words. No, seriously, it's great. And well, thank you convincing that convincing. We are in the territory now where you were alive, he's alive, everyone. It's nineteen ninety-seven. Do you remember what you were doing in nineteen, ninety-seven, seven, learning to walk first words. I took ages to learn to walk. I developed a very good shuffled technique, which wo through all my shorts and trousers apparently, and didn't learn to walk until I was about to I think. I think that's called cruel thing. No, no. I was I was on my bum. What was your first word? Well. This has been a good segment David. David, what were you up to in nine, hundred ninety seven? I developed quite a good shuffling techniques. To move on for the Bum Shuffling Technique David Help me out here. Of Shuffling from pub to pub I'd got curtains hairstyle. Still, hanging onto the hugh grant years at this point being for good three and a half years and Yeah, it was. It was when I finished university three as a free university, having had the time. I'm alive and suddenly realize realizing. It ends. Now do I Day And Yeah so I was I was kinda between positions. Let's just say that this is about the time. The moved to the Devon Countryside's did a journalism. Course and lift with a man had a suit collection. Well as call. That's Yes, basically as I lived. I lived on a farm and one of my housemates had a summarize sword collection in his room which when he brought it in I. I was I made me a little bit. Better but I do remember I watched him watched the Pat Rafter Greg. Brzezinski US Open singles final. In a pub and managed to get them to convince them to stay open to let me watch it. He's hosting. Lock INS fakes, nine, hundred, Ninety, seven, a rock and roll near the David Law as as you given the game away, there was. It was the Greg's. Highest high reaching the US Open final in early September, if that year losing out to Pat Rafter because it was just days after Princess, Diana died in a car crash just days after. Mother it I. That was both as events me hugely memorable the in September. August September of Nineteen, ninety seven. Year that the NASA Pathfinder landed on Mars Hong Kong was returned to Chinese rule the Kyoto Protocol. Agreed by one hundred and fifty countries. The Lion King debuted on Broadway. That's got billing on my list ahead of Tony. Blair becoming British Prime Minister. Dolly the sheep was successfully cloned in the UK that was a big one Harry Potter and the philosopher's stone was published. Alexander's Vera of enemy soccer were born the biggest selling single. If the year with candle in the Wind Diana, version obviously and titanic. The film was released which also three times at the cinema. Oh, see I was expecting some very sarcastic remark about the titanic, particularly when I was Gonna say how much I enjoyed three times at the cinema, and then I preordered the video. And collected collected at midnight on the Davis release a very very big surprise to me. yeah, but I was like eleven. Say WHO'S AK? I'd like to think I wouldn't do that now. But you wouldn't. Let's just say enjoyed it very much. I skated to the music ahead. Address made which had the you know the necklace? The heart of the ocean necklace encrusted onto the neckline of the dress. It was really cool time in the life of Catherine Whitaker. It was cool time non ironically in the life of Martina Hingis. She was only a few years older than me ridiculously, but she was having one. If the all time, great tennis seasons are. Really isn't an overstatement. I didn't think I mean. It's a hugely underrated onto about Tennessee's one of one of the very very best. Yeah, when you just look at the fact that. She didn't lose tennis match until the French Open final and I mean that's absurd, isn't it? Really that's something Novak, which almost did in two thousand eleven and remember how much we talked about that. Run a forty plus wins in a row and he lost in the semifinals. She she beat everybody, and she was in a really really strong era. Okay, some of the players like Venus and Serena Williams were still to come into their own Serena hadn't started yet, but Venus which was just coming along, but she. You're talking about the tail, end of Monica Seller of Steffi Graf. They were still still significant figures Lindsay Davenport was around. There were so many good players in that era, and she was utterly dominance for the first six months of it. Yeah, I mean just to put a bit more meat on the bone. She won her first thirty eight matches of the season. I six tournaments. And in that time the foul horse twice. She. During the Australian Open. Named magic girl and still won the tournament without dropping a set I love the on her off days. She's just. Riding a horse on ranch somewhere that junior grand slam. And, then was doing it again in eighth pro when she suffered a slight tear of her Stereo cruciate ligament in her left knee, which meant the shelter withdraw from a load of? Events building up to the French Open and that. You know she was the cook in that French Open, and that was perhaps one of the reasons why she didn't win the final against. Either Molly and that French Open final. Loss was the only Grand Slam Mac. She would lose that season, and in fact it was the grand actually would lose until the following year's French Open defended her Australian Open title at the start of nine, hundred, Ninety, eight, just just incredible dominance in the biggest events and PS. She was sixteen. Sixteen. And it wasn't even particularly out of the Blue It'd been coming for a couple of years before she resort, she'd been setting sort of youngest ever records for for several years I. think she was the youngest ever. Junior grand. Slam champion twelve years old, not even a teenager. Twelve I mean. Off My share when I read that yesterday. And then she became the youngest grand slam champion ever in any discipline Wimbledon in one, thousand, nine, hundred six, when she won the doubles with Helena Sukova aged fifteen years and two hundred eighty two days. Do you, remember this year, David. I mean obviously remember one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety seven that goes without saying, but do you remember this year for for Martina Hingis in the achievements? And how the? Tennis! World reacted to her at the time. Vividly I think partly because I was just such a huge fan of her of watching her play tennis. I thought she was just a joy to if I. IF I could go back and watch. Any player watching pass matches just just for the sake of watching the tennis. She would be probably in the top five of all players just because she just gives you these me as. Joy To what somebody go out in the way she did. Using. This clever guy, making making look absurdly easy and just defusing powerful players games, and but as it was going along. The. It was just assumed she would win. It was it was Martina Navratilova. Like or Chris Avid like it was. It was those sorts of winning streaks. She was putting together. She made the game. Look absurd lease and. I thought she would dominate for many many years to come. As a big shock that she didn't, it was a seems that she would win by one more so than herself. Martina Hingis quotes. Could Nineteen ninety-seven the gift that keeps on giving? They I mean just relentlessly brilliant. Come on, hit us with Montaigne quite well. She took up. She defeated Monica, Seles six, two, six, one in eight become the youngest ever world number one and She said why should I be worried about the future right now? Almost everything is perfect. As she felt unbeatable, Hingis, said well I am. And An and there's also the famous one where around that time, just having this so-called rivalry with an iconic over, and it's the one you know what you think of your rivalry with her. And she said what rivalry I win all the matches. None of these statements off factually inaccurate. They it's. Is this a Swiss thing to do you know? Federal does this and as always done? This doesn't any he gets away with it more than. More I mean I didn't maybe Monte anxious to get away with at the time, but she. Reputation as being. An arrogant Brat, didn't she? But maybe maybe this is what they're teaching. The kids in Switzerland's. Of any sort of modesty of full smarter state it's just. This is just how I see it I. I mean my personal favorite I. Think is the fact that this this was all taking place when tiger woods was was breaking through and winning his first masters, and and she was having a similar kind of season and she was getting. I guess she was getting compared to him, and she said it's all the time tiger. Woods Tiger Woods. I'm better than he is I've been on top longer and I am younger. I mean again at the time. Though those statements are not factually inaccurate. They have aged while. She. She is indeed younger than torture. Seriously what did take away was done in ninety-seven. Match when away from the Grand Slam? Let's forget no, I mean tiger. Woods won the masters by twelve strokes and. Forty four million people watching golf, and there was the symbolic black man winning the masters, this kind of elitist placing golf. Yeah, but he he older matte. All all of that is insignificant, compared to the fact that he was. Well I mean. In one thousand, nine, hundred seven. Maybe hinges did win more but. Yeah I mean tiger. Woods was revolutionizing the sport and hanging. Is I'm just better. than. The. which is less possible to objectively? That one but I mean. Tiger Woods obviously went onto, have the sustained success and the consistency and. Martina Hingis didn't and I. Wonder If if I'm not sure how go F- literate. You were at the time David Bit. If he'd been, he'd been asked at the time, he's going to have the most sustained career out to the to what you might have thought we'll see much given. It's difficult to say because I. Do I remember what in that Masters Woods? One and it was. People don't win. Major Championships by twelve shots certainly. When they're just starting, I it just doesn't happen. And he would, he was leaving fields behind the years, although that particular essential memory went to the open and didn't didn't fare very well that particularly. But anyway. What would have thought like? I thought Martina Hingis would dominate the sport for years to come there was she was so young to be sixteen seventeen, already playing at that level, and just frankly taking the mick out of opponent, she was making opponents. Look silly. She was that good. The the idea, she wouldn't win Wimbledon again after ninety-seven would have seemed absolutely ridiculous to me at least, and that's why I never really know. How to talk about Martina, Hingis and away as well. I think she an interesting case. He's kind of a little bit of an island because you wouldn't call her. Probably a cautionary tale, because she didn't to go off the rials or have the struggles that other young talents had and yet she didn't have this sustained career, either. She sort of she sort of sits in her own little place you know, and and she's also got these three distinct phases of her career when she had a couple of comebacks, but I think when you go back to this area that we're talking about late nineties early noughties. She was just this confluence of talent, aptitude and achievement, and she stood out for all of those reasons. and. She was a crazy crazy perfectionist wasn't sharing in the final. We've just shit that Wimbledon. One thousand nine hundred, in fact, all of the the Multi Martina Hingis much is that we've we've relived she. She does a petulant racket bounce at. What is essentially a forced error because she's annoyed that she didn't make it and produce a perfect winner from an impossible position, she is so good at tennis and so aware of how good she it tennis. Anything below perfection seems to disgust her. Which is amazing here she does give the most wonderful reactions that have howling time to even just raises of eyebrows and just sort of. Can we play another sport now? Winning this one so easily you're right, and and actually to me watching. It didn't advertise may I loved just loved watching at the time her ability particularly with backhand. Just put it on any part of the core that she so chose it was just she was easy. For what a skill to I mean I don't even I never even thought that about federal the. That I thought. This sports too easy for him. He had incredible skill set, but AENGUS was the nonchalance would which he would do it all and it wound people up I mean she was? She was almost kind of mocking opponents with with how easily she was based in them. She was the top seed at Wimbledon that year as Matt said having taken over the the number, one spot in March of ninety-seven Monica, Seles was the second seat, cheered lost in the third round to sandrine, tested and Yana Nevada was the third seed, and of course. The final was between Hingis and Nevada. Can you remember David first and third seeds but of Nevada having? reached. A Wimbledon final before with the fall greater experience, I think she was twenty seven. At that time he was the favorite going in wh-what odds with bud. Collins told us that they each had. I mean he would have been a comfortable favors. She was the best player in the world by FAW and just making mincemeat out of the role. People hadn't forgotten Novotna's struggle. She was the sentimental favorite. I mean people wanted Novotna to win no question about it and when she wins the first set six two. It really does look on because he has been out of sorts in that first set. But. She just controls things if she's playing well, even though Novotna went up a break in the third set. I didn't see coming radio I. Remember watching the match and I we expected. Hingis to just decode even grass court problems that Nevada Post. Because Higgins had such poise balanced time, she had time on every shot. It all seems so straightforward to. It's kind of composure. When behind to know that her game will eventually. Unlock. What she needs to win the match and then and then kind of patience when she's ahead to not. To get ahead of yourself to not rush to the finish line just to play her game and trust a game and she's she's grinning throughout the whole thing like even as you said even when she's making arrows kind of like sh, she might pet. We've bounced her racket a little bit, but she's also got this grin on her face like it's one big game to one big sort of. Ninety minutes of fun. It's the face it says something eating. I'm playing different sports to the one that you're playing. Even at the off to the coin, toss the photo. They've taken it the net I mean on. is sort of coulda a shy smile on her face. Which is nice to see after what happened in ninety-three now that she's. Looking relaxed enough to enjoy the moment, but Martina Hingis. Accepted a marriage proposal or something she is is toothy. Grid! And I she's she should be. She should be bundle of nerve, shouldn't she? May maybe she was and she was just? Had A great polka face, but The thing is in her quotes that we read in this so many of them, the feeling of of all of it around that time is. What have I got to be nervous about? I'm winning all the time. It's a winning easily, so I mean I'm sixteen seventeen. What's the problem? There wasn't one kiss. Despite losing that I set six, says she. She just took control of the match completely in that second sir. What really struck me? Watching the highlights we've just watched. Is How often Yana Novotna? WHO's this incredible athlete getting to the net quickly and covering it quickly? How often Nevada was hitting a half Ali, when she would have preferred to have been hitting. A volley because Hindus, just dipping that return perfectly. Her feet every single time enforcing Nevada to hit up her returns with just. So pinpoint accurate aengus it was. Something to behold really. Yeah and I. Think as we mentioned yesterday it did does sound like Nevada was carrying a little bit of an injury in that match, and maybe maybe that was slightly preventing her from. Perhaps getting into the net is she would like but what? What struck me is how? How thoughtful Novotna tennis was by the end, because she's struggling to keep up in a way with this is just looking so relaxed calmed down the other end of the core and this this this just this such a big difference in demeanor. Novotna's sort of struggling to come through every service game and Hingis is just just kind of cruising by the end. Nevada does actually go break-up in the deciding set. She's she's to love up in that certain and angus breaks immediately back in I mean. She seemed to have incredible poison. Self belief, no matter what position she was in school, Board, wise. But, The just no nitrates of panic whatsoever at every stage, even breakdown in the deciding set. Martina, Hingis is thinking well. Obviously. I'm still going to win this. I! Believe her I mean obviously. I believe a watching it knowing knowing the result, but at the time. I can't imagine that I wouldn't have been swept up by that incredible self-assurance. I'll say it really divided people though I. Don't think she was that popular with the viewing public. Really it was. It was a bit too self, the short for most people I think can a little bit too cocky huge. Who'd you think you are? Don't make fun of the game funnier opponents, and she was doing it purposefully to try to be disrespectful. I think she just found the sport. Absurdly easy and. So the She's just going to behave and she's so young. You've gotTa Remember H. How young she is! I might. God, she's sixteen. You are a brat at that age at the time. I think and everybody's got a better that in them. And she was doing out there in front of millions. She ended nicknamed the Swiss Miss didn't she which I. Think. I felt uncomfortable with at the time I certainly feel uncomfortable with it. With it now. But it was completely. It was completely normal to to refer to that way, wasn't it? Was that was just? It's just a lack. It's just a lazy rhyming reference points, isn't it? And Yeah I'm I'm quite sure I used it as well just because people did but. Yeah I mean I, look back on a year now with. With great kind of. Fundus because I really enjoyed it at the time and I. Love Watching the tennis. I do feel that We overlook the fact that she was one match away from something that we would surely all remember differently now if she won that match against my only. I mean that doesn't necessarily mean she to gone on one. The other two because pressure may have told etc, but. There's only graph in the in the open-air. Who's done it up? If she had done it. Surely that would have made a difference. Let's from Lindsey, Davenport, now somebody. ended up becoming a really great rival hinges for a few years there and they're lovely contrast to styles. Because of import had a really interesting perspective when I spoke to a few weeks ago about. His game and and How underrated that season once in one, thousand, nine, hundred seven, the game was shifting and she was such A. So amazing to say like. NOPE, you could be bigger than me. You could be stronger than me could hit harder than me but I've got this amazing feel I have the ability to take balls wherever I want them in the court and put them wherever I want them her year ninety seven is one of the all time greats it would have gone would have been even greater year if she hadn't fallen off, her horse needed knee surgery before the French I think she easily would have won that. French Open I'm still got to the final one. The other three majors It's kind of one of the more underrated seasons in my opinion on the. The T. Tour. She was so good she was so young at that time. She seemed to be handling everything pretty well, and her mom was was was helping her out I. Think Martina may be got caught up a little bit in in the attention when some of the other players start breaking through in the next couple of years of Cornucopia and Williams and all of that of where do I fit in now? She definitely wanted to be alpha tug and I think that was an adjustment for her. When then Venus and Serena started kind of breaking through, and then started really winning majors and kind of cemented their place at the top of women's tennis. It blows my mind that she was doing something as high risk as horse writing I know. She absolutely loves horses and Equestrian. I know that but. Tennis, players don't do activities like that during my career because they can't invalidates the their insurance doesn't I mean I saw Is quite s to refer to them like this high-value commodities, tennis players, they are insured against major career-threatening injury, but it doesn't cover you for a believe. It doesn't usually cover for skiing I remember when Tim Henman retired. And he was asked, he was mostly came forward to about retirement. He says I can ski. Now haven't been able to ski for the Post. Fifteen years and Martina Hingis the most. Of the most high value. Commodities in the sport. Is just. Putting all at risk to get a moose writing. I think it tells you two things one. Is that she? It's an indication of her age that she just was having to. Faced with having to give things up. She felt she should be allowed to do somebody well, obviously very wealthy now. All these options and she's at an age where she wants to do this stuff and. Okay I'm going to do anyway and I think that that's where the case she didn't have. The burn out, and the real problems of a caveat implies like that but I think she was conflicted in as as there's so much life, there's so much out there. The Sandwich I wanted to do I'm just going to do it anyway. That was part of it. The other thing is she said in an interview. I watched this morning. I felt invincible. And I don't think she thought she could come off the whole because probably thinks she's an absolutely world class force rider as well and nothing's going wrong so far. So why would she think wrong now? Well, it did happen twice a year they. Yeah! It's one thing to think not the first time. Can you remember the key? Can you imagine the cool going into a rage and I've done it again. This time bad. So. Yeah, I mean undeniably one of the all-time great seasons and everybody's seeming given her age that that she will she will. Is it much of an overstatement to say that she will dominate tennis for for many years to come at this point? The Williams sisters are there on that. Certainly Venus is is is emerging. People are aware of them as she play, she played Venus. Williams in the US Open final, and that was Venus's I ever use open. It was a fairly one sided match and. I remember watching it There was an incredible amount of hype about Venus but. It was one of those where those that follow in the second year round, just thinking well. Yeah, but he is the best better, plaza certainly right now and I just did not expect the turnaround the followed and then. She, she remained a factor. Did did hangers but? I didn't expect her to lose her position of dominance the way she did. Yes, she won the Australian Open that followed as well but I. I really thought that was going to go on for many years, and it's. It's notable also that she was playing doubles and she she won the calendar year slam in doubles in one, thousand, nine, hundred as well so. You know maybe there was a kind of burnouts. Strikes me that it was. kind of combination of things I think one was as Lindsay Davenport said their. Players like the Williams sisters emerging and Davenport getting better and. Not exactly the game overtaking her, but plays slightly figuring her out slightly realizing how to harness what they had in their games to beat her. Also I think the. French Open final that we covered in a on gas relived against Steffi. Graf is really big turning point in English his career where she after that she became far less secure in the big matches. She still reached a lot of Grand Slam finals this ninety seven season, but she lost most of them, and I think that ninety nine French Open where she didn't convert her her lead against Steffi. Steffi Graf ended up. Having quite a big tall and people realize that there was a weakness that they could chip away at and eventually injuries I mean. She had all sorts of injuries on her ankles and I. Think hails were badly inflamed I. think that was the one that eventually took out of the game in two thousand and two, so there was a sort of numerous factors just. Converging in meaning that she gradually kind of fat away, and never never became the fully dominant force that people thought she would. Did you lack Grit David? It all come so easily to her. It seemed like she was playing tennis on a on a different plane to every every videos, she she'd perhaps never had to dig deep a certain other players had to to achieve their success, and it's all going swimmingly, and then a real challenge comes along, not just in the form of the Williams sisters that were that were others, as well means Devonport became a real real challenge de her others, but. It is most embodied by the Williams sisters that that shift and changing if the God and she didn't adapt, did she? She didn't dig. She didn't adopt. She didn't change she. She faded. And I know that's really hard. Take on it all but. When it got read when the going got really really tough, she she faded. Think she I do think she loved winning. as you would expect, but I don't think she could really handle it when she wasn't winning that much and to go away and have to reassess. Regroup and come back and show that kind of resilience. She did come back, but yeah I think it. At any? She was off the player when she was getting some losses. Because I think that that knocked self perception. And probably reduced. How effective she was I think that could sound like A. Harsh assessment but I do think it's exactly what happened. I was reading some quotes from. From her mother, Melanie Molotov who said. She does only what she has to get by. She's not lazy, but she only works as long as it's fun, and it's not hurting and Chris ever talked about. Where's the need insider to? Go back and prove that she's better than these players emerging. And Oversee Chris ever. Would would know about that because she she did have that need inside. She did reinvent her game to to get the rivalry against never over back on the back on level terms in the in the latter half of that career, so I think that's exactly what happened I think she was bouncing from tournament to tournament when she was sixteen seventeen. Not really thinking about it kind of kind of imagining that it might go on forever, and then the soon as there was a little bit of a roadblock. She maybe didn't quite have that determination that that was required. And she possibly underestimated the the Williams sisters when they were when they were first emerging onto the tour, and and frankly some of the the comments she made about the more hugely uncomfortable on Ami, not I I'd like to think that they were. Somewhat uncomfortable at the time and Cetinje as time has passed tickly now they feel. Incredibly uncomfortable and I'd like to think that she would. She would not stunned by a lot of them, but. With the emergence of the Williams sisters came A. Animal could. Confrontation I suppose between between Hindus and them Deny How did you perceive it at the time, David? How did you? Perceive her attitude towards the Williams sisters. I founded uncomfortable at the time, and I wasn't really sure why. I think now with the years that have passed a an understanding much more about unconscious racism. I feel a lot more understanding of and it wasn't Jay I'm not pointing fingers at Martina Hingis here. I think we were all or many of us were guilty of this. and. Kind of pitching these plans against each other grouping. Venus and Serena, Williams as the Williams sisters. The gate crashes. The people have come along from the outside and. I do feel really uncomfortable with that now. When I think of it in those terms, but that's kind of how it was built. And Hingis did nothing really to dissuade the story from being that. But I think generally she was just. She was just pissed off that she wasn't the best in the world anymore really and that she wasn't just having her own way at every turn. And Yeah I. Dare, say she. She probably would feel a bit embarrassed I hope she would feel uncomfortable with some of the things that she was quoted as saying when she was still a young woman and I think her. Kind of desire to speak her mind Costa and she was talking about other players as well. There's that. The Golf sleep quote that she gave about Amara's Mo- saying that she's half a man when she just come out of the closet emily. Marasmus and I think I think they had a Wj mentor system and Chris was Martina Hingis Mental, and apparently after that after that quotes about about Meraz, Mo- ever rang Hingis and said look you need to. Admit that you've got that wrong. And Hingis said said no basically and ever said that got mad at and. Blame to. Being diplomatic or she wanted to do was kind of be honest and said what she felt. And think publicly she. She defended herself, but I think. As you said she was so young, and we probably do have to take that into consideration when we look back on these on these quotes in the context, in which they were given I mean they seem. They seem absolutely horrific now and they and they really. I think wouldn't stand up now, and they don't, and we can criticize them, but I also think the time the context is is important to note. She the only person she she to have sort of Generous things to say about the fellow plays. She seemed to have generous things to say about the time Yanna Novotna. She she said so many nice stuff about Nevada often that ninety-seven final. Didn't she said you? You deserve to win this title and I. Don't know whether she meant today. Oh all sort of generally you can, you can have another one another time when I'm when I may have read. This one Nevada with whom she won. Three of the four doubles Grand Slams that David mentioned in ninety eight I think they actually ended up having a falling out a year later when Higgins dropped as A. Doubles partner because I think she said something like Nevada's old and slow and Nevada fire back saying she's young and stupid. So descended for for a while. Definitely close and successful together she won she won several. Double slums with annacone covers well, didn't she's relationship obviously recovered from the rivalry? The matches comment I. My sense, a little bit was Hingis soil the attention that Kona Kai if a Golz. And a didn't like it and be kind of wanted to have her share and probably lights hanging out with corner cover for some of the attention That's how it came across. The time, and I think that that also was probably a distraction. From? I think she enjoyed the life, I think she enjoyed the city of the Razzmatazz went around all. And I'm not sure that helps her achieve as much as she could have done. David, you interviewed Martina Hingis back in January of twenty fourteen when she was inbetween. We're cooling phases two and three of her career, she she'd had her singles comeback. And we'll talk about that in a moment of bit, she was it was before she made her turn to the doubles. Cool on which she had great great success most notably with Sunday Mirror. And you covered a number of topics he started off by. Asking her about success she had such a young age and asking her why why? That was so special that people on on doing what she was doing at fifteen sixteen. Thinking mainly part of it is also okay. The game has gotten more physical it's. The technology is different but also because the girls they're not allowed to play as many tournaments which I totally disagree with this alleged ability rule because I think girls should be open a free roof at the age of sixteen. I was already two years on the tour. I mean I had some rules as well, but not as strict as they are. These days that the girls that are only free to play the full schedule from eighteen so I think you know they losing away two years of time and. It's hard to to pick it up when you're eighteen or twenty. When you need that experience and. So. That's why we see champions for older these days. Of course. The you retired for the first time at just twenty two. It seems extraordinary when a lot of players are starting to to make their name of that sort of age. Did you feel that you missed out at all by playing as young as young as you did now not at all, actually because I felt like I had a little bit after myself. Already at twenty two and I had still grapefruit. Scher bright future ahead of me and. I mean still of course there's years of tennis and I mean headed a little comeback in which I'm still very proud of and I don't know it's I think sometimes also the priorities change, and it just I played. Juniors already when I was like yeah, twelve and thirteen so I had that experience and I. It was a different time i. believe as well because you know playing. Against, Steffi Graf Rancho Sanchez at that time. who were like ten years older than me? They all started the young as well so I wasn't the only one at that time, but Yeah. They had long careers I had shorter one, but still you know the ten year career is not like. Only, one one hit wonder. You, wouldn't you? I totally fifteen years ago. I mean not not long after that. You were playing against Serena Williams. Who is still dominating the tennis circuit today? That is extraordinary, isn't it? it is definitely but. It also tells you know how. Great assistance. We're when when they played. You know like in two thousand one and two and they were. At their best so and now still it's amazing, but she's always been very smart about their schedule. She never played as many tournaments I mean they had a lot of breaks and. I mean injury here and there, but they were very smart about it and I think that's why she's played. Like half of the matches at that time that I've played with the devils and everything play mixed doubles so maybe the age of twenty five. When I had my comeback, she only played like half of the dementia. The tournaments that I did so. She still had like the five years ahead of me. So that's pretty interesting. Implication there is that she she possibly suffered from from a playing, and yet she is adamantly opposed to the age eligibility rule, which is in place to to prevent burnout if young players, so it's not necessarily a coherent view, but it is, it is an interesting one. I also think it's a bit of an excuse that she's giving herself and probably a bit of a diss of Venison Serena. It by comparison as if she signed, what if I had only played the match I applied. It's still being going today but look. She decided around sheduled with okay with management company with her mother, and as we say, she won the calendar year. Slam in doubles in ninety eight. She was playing singles and doubles all the time she played over ninety matches in one, thousand, nine, hundred and one I think she lost about six or eight matches in the whole year. And her success was just. Crystallized into this very short period of time, and I've often thought with other prodigies I was thinking about Wayne Rooney's career that he was never more the English football of that he was never more devastating than when he was seventeen years of age same with Michael. Owen and I'm not sure necessarily. Certain players have longevity in them. I don't know whether Hingis hand that in her mentally you talked about whether she whether it was grit, and now she made comebacks, but I just find it quite interesting that it's almost like she. She turned her life upside down. To what most people have most people have childhood, Fun and Games, and then get serious and become something she was. Immediately, and then started to wish she could ride horses and do fun things and went and did them at the age of twenty two and then got bored. On say I think and and that's when comeback starts into in two thousand and six and I covered that and for the first month, or so it was joyous. I remember her. Her Australian Open Comeback. She beat Venus of. Ever in the first round, who was seated and absolutely took her apart, and it was just rolling back the years, glorious tenants, but She was never as good as she was before and yes, she found it difficult. I think to leave the sport. And yet she also couldn't hack it anymore. So. She ended up leaving the sport three times. Yes she had three three separate retirements will. We'll talk about each of these just in a minute, but let's I hear from Mary Carillo reflecting on well, Martina Hingis his career generally, but first of all on that Wimbledon triumph in nineteen ninety-seven. Matter a quote in his research from Hingis saying she hated Gross. That obviously coming before she ended up winning the title, his Mary Reflecting on why Hanks's game worked on the grass. People think that you've got to the overpowering to win, Wimbledon. When you don't you just have to know how to use that surface to your to your benefit, and he guests was an absolute master in singles and doubles on the grass. I mean it that moment in ninety-seven is a sixteen year old looking looking like she was playing on a on a different plane to everybody else. If you told people then, she's not going to win. Another one of these, it would have been scarcely scarcely believable. But again I think at a certain point. Power the. Racket technology string technology? All that stuff worked against her and she had a hard time. Holding her serve after awhile because people were just giving it the thumb. And at once like if you're once that once, somebody knows what to do against you even if you're great when somebody has a game plan. It's going to kind of shake you. It's like with raw with Ross and Roger. Roger knew that rough knew what to do. He knew it. She's a I mean I. I obviously wasn't involved in tennis at the time I. Don't I didn't know her. She seems like somebody that that dealt with being a young champion. May Be better than than some others better than. Better than maybe even as kind of normal because that's not a normal situation, isn't it? Is it being a sixteen year old major champion? She never seemed to be in over her head, did she? Never was wide, eyed, and kind of how how did I get here? I think she fully expected to get her. She was a very accomplished junior. Her Mom was clearly a very fine coach and tactician No, she wasn't. She wasn't wide. She. She pretty much knew how good she was and end. At how complete she in again she had to rid. She knew how to rub everyone of brain cells together in a match. She really did again at a certain point. You know power overwhelmed her, but. Before, that boy this, she was a pleasure to watch. She could figure out she's I. Maybe I can't win the point here, but three shots from now. I, see a winner. and. It's in that that corner over there pulling their wide, you could just. It was fun watching her mind were you can almost watch? You know really taking the court measuring the court and then taking it bit by bit. and forcing someone into a compromising position I truly enjoyed. I enjoyed hanks's game. If it's nice and tight and again great clarity. So you. Samari, the sort of fading. If if multinational, this is a a major force in the game was was more about other people changing the game, and and and making it more physical and power based. And I'm sure the reality is that it's it's that along with a load of other factors along with props. Monte Hingis not quite being mentally cut out for the challenge of if all the players but. Yeah, she she retired for the for the first time in two thousand three age, just twenty two. She was out to the game then for three years, she returned in two thousand six. She did get back to the top ten. This is the Comeback David you were talking about really really relishing in, and she played the finals that year, but the best results in a slam was was the quarter-finals. And then a cool. She ended up. Failing a drugs test testing positive for cocaine, and denouncing her her second retirement in November two thousand seven, and then it was a long gap of six years before turning as as a doubles player and having tremendous success in the doubles before I'm. Retiring I think once and for all. I mean never say never, but we. We think it's done and dusted. Couple years ago I. Mean is quite a career, isn't it? Took about highs and lows. Yeah. I haven't even mentioned a brief for into strictly come dancing the. Speaking of news. I think at that kind of. Even that fact sums up the challenges she faced and a lot of players who become massive stars, and have all the success so young face well. What do I do next and she? She retired twice. Did other things inevitably found out. She wasn't that good at a lot of them because I mean, how can you be the best to everything and I think that that is probably. Pretty shock to the system for her to find out. Oh I'm not brilliant at this compared to everybody else and. She just gets bored. And then tennis comes back into the equation. Sudden issues the best of that again. Oh well, she's one of the best and in doubles. It was I think it went well with past because I think she's a pretty gregarious current, so she likes to have a chance and to share it with somebody else. He was very successful in both doubles and mixed doubles and yes, she was the best asset I mean. She's got to be. One of the best doubles blinds. We've ever seen really I would say. But the strictly thing. She was terrible. She said he had the first round, and and there were a number of reality shows she did where you could see. Yeah, I mean it's money, but she doesn't need the money, so she doing it for. She was a rough, rough hand getting the RUMBA. But it, so yes, she was voted off strictly come dancing in the UK in two thousand nine and week when she does a waltz, and it's possible it's possible. This is a gentle, yes, and then week to she gets from which is very very difficult to sort of just I mean it just looks like a walking walking about with really sway hips. One is all about chemistry, isn't there? To the apartment, the best thing I mean blessed Matthew Cutler partner is doing his best to pretend. They the best thing about it is. She's these wooden hips, but she got this look on her face. That says yeah. I'm good at this. This is going really well, and then the judges telera otherwise on our faces like. She really wasn't expecting it. Mattie Cutler looks more like he potentially was expecting that feedback. And then she gets voted off which I don't think she was. Voted off in week. One bad I feel like that's a tough hand bit. She definitely wasn't very good at it and cheat if money didn't enjoy being not very good at it. That's some sums up. The challenge I've seen it with a lot of other people John McEnroe's jokes. When I play Music Live Music Guitar it ruins, good elbows at tennis. I in my mind I'm greater this because that's what I WANNA BE I. WanNa be great at everything that I. do just like I was at tennis when he wasn't even rubbish. Say to him. You know just just leave the music to me, Chon? The rocks ing. He's going to set list of three songs as One of them's Gloria as. Its glory days it satisfaction, and it's Johnny be good. Yeah? Yeah. honky tall occas-, occasionally Honky tonk woman. If. He's having a real like rolling stones. But anyway. Somebody wants. Is John McCain or any good at music and I heard somebody say he's in. He doesn't as into these. Comments. Give become dancing to the really bad ones, yeah! She still the youngest open Air Wimbledon champion. Is that likely to remain? The took him about Martina Hingis now not John McEnroe Is that likely to remain the case full the foreseeable future? Yes old coca Gulf. The is. There wasn't a pandemic around she's. Had to win it this year kickoff to I. Don't think that was impossible for coca golf to win a slam this year. I. Bet On it, but I think she was improving at such a rate at the end of last year. I think it's possible. and. She lost to the eventual champion in Australia this year and pushed her to three cents But, no I think all the trends going away from. Youngest ever records being broken the ones that are being broken oldest ever at the moment. I think they would have to be like. We were talking about with Boris Becker. There's going to have to be some massive. Switch in in tennis for these youngest ever records to be broken yet. Lottie DOD is the only. The only younger women champion, but that was that was in the nineteenth. Century! And somebody younger than twelve Windsor Genius Flom then. I want to be here to see it. Because just that's ridiculous. You've got to be a teenager at least making us feel bad. So. That's Martina Hingis the youngest ever Wimbledon champion in the era and Likely to. To. Hold that record for for a long time to come, it's. It's an unorthodox career. She had an. It's kind of difficult was going to ask you to. To to some per legacy or to sum up by both, remember her, but I think that's potentially almost impossible. Because as you say, she doesn't quite fit. Into a category, So said let's just remember her for her SAS. And leave it at that which leaves me only other than saying hello to Gerald a lovely lovely mascot cat. To us about where we're heading tomorrow, we are going to two thousand one tomorrow the first of two matches we're doing from two thousand and one over the next couple of shows and into the fourth round of the men's tournament. Pete, Sampras is the. Reigning champion the full time defending champion, and he plays Roach Ephedra in the fourth round, and that be the only ever meeting between those two greats. And it's not the nineties, but David still looks like he's about to explode with unanticipated election. So pumped. Can we watch it now. He. Can I mean again have some lunch, thanks, company and FIA Chitchat and thank you for listening and we'll see tomorrow.