2 Episode results for "Vance Joseph Broncos"
Cowboys Lose On MNF, The Pats Rise, & Sam Darnold Regresses | NFL Podcast with Albert Breer
"On July fourth two thousand nine former NFL quarterback Steve McNair in his mistress Jenny Kazimi were found dead in a Nashville conduct. The police included the Jennie had killed McNair in a murder suicide, but was at the whole truth. The genyk is aiming really kill Steve McNair. I said there's no way that Ginny would pull that off from Sports Illustrated fall of titan available now subscribe on apple podcasts or every get your shows. Guys. We are going to kick things off by digging through the rubble of monthly Dallas, and then has always Jenny Connor or in for the news wrap up in pack of your Twitter blushing, plus go. Are welcome in week is in the books is the QB podcast with our breer start here with the result that we saw Monday night. And I don't think it's what anybody in Dallas expected. I certainly no it's not what Jerry Jones expected and because on national TV because the Cowboys because they make as not us on the outside. They make a big deal out of being in prime time. I think this one takes on a little bit of a different context. They fall twenty eight to fourteen to the Tennessee titans and the challenge going for for Jerry Jones and Steven Jones and anyone else is going to be involved at that level of decision making well McClay the personnel chief falls into that group to Todd Williams one of their top football people the challenge here. I don't think is. Fixing the offense of line because I think that's a short term problem. That's going to work it self out. They've got good players. They're they can figure that out and twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. I don't think it's the defense is getting better aren't even think it's the receivers. The challenge for Jerry and the rest of the Cowboys going forward now is going to be separating. The coach from the quarterback, and then assigning blame for what's happened over the course of this year and taking a cold hard. Look at Jason Garrett and Dak Prescott. There are strings attached to both Jason Jerry views. Jason is he differently than any other head coach that he's had? I think there's an attachment to Jason Garrett because Jerry views Jason as a product of Jerry. The reason why he's the guy who let Jason Garrett the player back in the late nineties into the quarter into the coach's rooms into the game planning meetings because he knew Jason wanted to coach. He's the guy who hired. Jayson Garrett has offense coordinator in two thousand and seven before he hired Wade Phillips as head coach basically telling Wade Phillips, we already have your offensive coordinator here. He's invested so much in Jason Garrett. The coach I think there's hard for him to admit. Jason's failure because Jason's failure and a lot of ways equates to Jerry's failure. And then with Dak the problem is that was the breaking point for Jerry with a quarterback that he really liked Tony Romo and that was difficult for him. And he made the cold hard decision here. And what would that Prescott? Because at the time. It was what was right for the organization and Dak to his credit was fantastic as a rookie. And. So are you able to make a cold hard decision? Again. Are you able to look at the quarterback from cold point of view, and I'll bring in Jenny and and and Connor now and guys I like, I I look at that team team dysfunctional. I mean, they came out the first quarter. I thought Ziegler great like look we're going to get something out of a Mark Hooper. And after about ten or fifteen plays. It was just right back to what they've been for the first two months of the season. And I think for Jerry now, it's it's like, you know, like how when we're talking about like, the the old eighty nine or has like how much of it was Montana, and how much of it was Bill Walsh. And then, you know, more recently, it's like how much of its Bill Belichick how much of it's Tom Brady. How much of his drew Brees? How much of it's Sean Payton. Now, I think with these guys it's like it's like the opposite of that. So you're looking at what's gone wrong. The last couple of years, and I think you've got a good good Bassi on players team. If you go up and down the roster and its is. The coaches the quarterback. I don't know anybody who's watching this team that doesn't think it's the coach to me. You know, Dak Prescott we we saw during the playoff run, you know, when he was young and not mature, and he was still handling himself. You know, in a really, you know, poised away. I think there's ten or fifteen teams that would trip over themselves to sign him on the market if he came he's strong. He's accurate. He's mobile, and, you know, so I think that it it does it falls on the play caller there. And and this is kind of you know, Jerry Jones he's looking at this team right now, this is a missed opportunity. This was your quarterback on on a rookie deal on fourth round pick. That's about to expire as Yukio Elliott. If AFI smart is going to start asking for an extension before he gets, you know, pounded into obscurity by that, you know, the offensive line is getting older Shenley. He's going to be thirty three next year. I mean, this this was your window. And I think that you know. Emotions aside. Jerry Jones's decision here is kind of obvious to me at least. So you think he moves on? I think he should. I mean, you know, I think that anybody that's clamoring for a change at quarterback is not imagining Dak Prescott could be under more capable offense of hands. The question Jenny is like if you give Prescott and I'm going to say the name because I think he's going to be a factor. If they do make a change Lincoln Riley from Oklahoma who the Jones family has a relationship with who the Jones family, really likes Lincoln recruited, Stephen son last year. So there's a strong recent relationship. They're like, I don't think looking Riley's leaving Oklahoma for just anywhere. But I think because he's a native Texan like that jobs different job opens. And it's like, you may only get one shot at that and your life. You know, that's the Dallas Cowboys. I think that's the biggest question is like this Dak Prescott look like a different player, if he has someone like say Lincoln Riley as his coach, I think, absolutely. I mean, I think. Garrett handled the Prescott to Romo transition very well, obviously that season they had a lot of success. That was a a situation. I could you know, blown up and it didn't. But then since then we haven't seen any progress forward from Prescott and last year, you know, it was okay. Well, the Elliott on and off suspension for the personal conduct violations. He was on and off the field. You know, you could say that offense of line isn't quite what it is. They don't have playmakers this year they bring in Amari Cooper. But I think really all of it is we haven't seen a clear progression from young quarterback who showed promise and has a lot of talent as a rookie. And I think you, you know, you need a coach that can be more creative. And you know, I think there's a lot of game situations that we've seen this year where it's not hard to imagine someone else doing something differently. That puts them in a better position to succeed. Yeah. I think that's the you look at the elements of lit what other coaches are doing with similar talent. And you. Have a game changing running back. You have an accurate quarterback with mobility. You might not have a game breaking wide receiver. But you have a lot of speed at that position and some capable hands in. It's like men would Andy Reid be doing with this offense would Sean McVay doing with this offense. And it doesn't even have to be those guys, you know, at this point. What would Todd Haley be doing with this offense? You know, if you look at the first few games at least in the Browns season and how they rebel to get Baker Mayfield moving around. And it's like, you know, I think that this is what Jason's going to have to answer to there is no evolution it seems. They're stuck in the past. And I think the interesting thing about is like they did they did some things when he was a rookie to accommodate him. And it just didn't push that ball forward, which is interesting too in itself. So I think it's absolutely absolutely. A one worth watching going forward. And I've just heard from people in the building like, you know, one of ask these questions about Garrett in the past. I've gotten constant knows like, no, no, no, that's not happening. And this year it's softer than that this year. Like, and look this isn't coming from Jerry. This isn't coming from Stephen. But the people have talked to they're like below that level of said, this feels different this feels like he is now coaching for his job. And I think it's probably the the effect like, Sean and Andy re defect. They're having on the rest of the league with some of the stuff. They're doing too is. I think a lot of owners are sort of looking at it this way like their operation. And being like, why can't I have that? Which I think opens the door to different types of hires creative types of hires. I think we're going to see probably this year. A lot more flirting with college coaches like you're going to see a lot more of those. Lot more like college coaches having to protect their turf because cruising and everything else. And like, I think could be a really interesting off season when it comes to that stuff. Okay. We're going to get to the news now and our first news item for the week the big game of the week the saints outlasted the Rams in the Superdome. Forty five to thirty five in a game that featured a furious Los Angeles comeback from twenty one point deficit and and an Amish to Joe horn on the Michael Thomas game clinching touchdown. The win was New Orleans seven straight. I think New Orleans is the most complete team in football right now. I think its showed their defense was great. But their defense was certainly more capable of getting stops when it mattered than the Rams were down the stretch of that game. And I look you talked about the window Connor, right? Like that window that the Cowboys had was Zeke on a rookie contract and with Dak on a rookie contract. I that's where the that the saints are right now with last year's rookie class with with Lattimore. And ramczyk and Camara and Marcus Williams. Like they've they've drafted route. They drafted really well say that got these guys who are on rookie deals and you look at the roster. And it's just I mean, it's this was a team that was like deficient from her Auster standpoint that'd be five years ago. And they went and brought in Jeff Ireland who took a lot of criticism in Miami. I fixed the person they've fixed they're like their their personnel operation. And now, I mean, I was so impressed with the way that they the Rams to for coming back from the deficit in that environment. I was so impressed by the saints. Jumped out to the lead. Then took the body blow that you knew it was coming and we're able to finish them off at the end. I think and you know, I think we talked a little bit last week about some of the concerns about the Rams defense. And I think those were sort of, you know, further alight with shined on those a little bit further. And and obviously the Marcus Peter situation is is an interesting, you know, is it really an injury. That's holding him back like he's not playing like the player that we were guarded him. Once as he was in Kansas City. And so why has his play, you know, suffered to the point that it has this year. And that's obviously impacting the defense as a whole. I think he was a little up and down Kansas part of the reason they got rid of he was a little up and down in Kansas City. And I think some of the questions with him have been like Kenny be consistent. And I'll tell you what like two guys that are playing for contracts that right like, Michael Thomas, and and and Marcus Peters. Michael Thomas looked like he was ready for primetime. Look like, he's ready to be. An eighteen million dollar year receiver, and if the Rams I if I'm the Rams I'm coming out of that with almost more questions about him than I went in with in Michael Thomas, you know, knows how to sell tickets that was one of the greatest no question that was one of the greatest moments of the season. I thought that was phenomenal. It set off a string of sort of callback. You know, early two thousand NFL celebrations titans are celebrating on the star on Monday night. I mean, this was fantastic. This is an era. I think you know, what's the next throwback celebration. You want see that's a good one moss. Yeah. Definitely someone panting panting themselves, but Joe buck has to be on the call again just to be so. Fasted the that'd be perfect. 'cause we compare them side by side. One thing I did talk to you about this about twenty minutes ago was I went back, and I looked at the story from who's eighty. And I found like an AP column where it was just the grumpy old white guy. Call you know, it was it was like this is disgraceful. And like this. I hear anybody say that about Michael Thomas, right? Heard a lot of teams. My Joe box. And said that about two broadcasting side, you know, that's costing you know the team penalty and a critical point of the game. The the tone has changed a little bit. Tell us a little bit. I would I would celebrations overall. I I'd like to see someone imitate the Chad Johnson jacket celebration. That'd be another good one. That'd be good one in totally. I did write in support of Michael Thomas's trip to the liquor store to find the burner phones and all this meant that was his craft. Absolutely. And I got a mail from an anger reader that said you like the celebration. What are you nine he called? He called us when I talked to him on. Now, he called a swap meet store. That's there's a lot of those in New Orleans. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen those in New Orleans watt meet slash liquor store. You go in and it's like it's like a Spencer gifts with like Hennessy. There. Right interesting. Yeah. As commitment, but you can buy alcohol. There aren't very many stores that don't have like the unanswered question. How I think he declined to say, right? How early he had to get there to put the phone under the one thing. I wish I asked him that. I didn't ask him. I should ask them is. Did he buy two or they enter both? Yeah. We did. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Because if you're going to go for it at that point. I mean, you know, can't Bank on being on the right side of the field. Yeah. Can't risk. Yeah. I mean, if he had truly done the celebration, though, he would've had one of his teammates go and get for him. Right. Because that's what Joe horn. Did he had one of his teammates go get it for him and had one of his teammates? Go get it for him. I think that you can't write didn't someone say that basically. This was totally him. Because I think if he had mentioned it to somebody it would have gotten to the coach, and he would have been talked out of it. Right. So this was probably a total rogue movement, which I totally respect. I thought that was fifty nine. All right. Connor news item. Number two, the patriots. Methodically took apart the Packers thirty one seventeen and Foxborough with Cordeiro Patterson at tailback rushing for sixty one yards and eleven carries and the defense holding Rogers two hundred fifty nine yards. The patriots are seven and two. Like, we all said, I mean, this was just gear shifting at the beginning of the season. They're on a roll. Josh, Gordon looks amazing. They're throwing failed first round pick and tailback in goal line situations, he still running high in they're still just really is remarkable concept of pad level. The play where he was like dragging the guy. It was all my God. Like somehow, this is working, and like everything tells you shouldn't be working, and it's working. And I thought it was like like I thought the the creativity like watching, and look I think my McCarthy's in the spot like maybe we're Andy Reid was like six seven years ago where maybe it's best that he that they have a change of seat that there is a change of scenery for both. You know, like where he needs to go somewhere else where the Packers maybe need somebody new to come in. There's obviously been the friction between him and Rogers. But it just like everything looked so hard for the Packers. When they got the ball down there. Scored the first touchdown. I they throw it on first down. They throw it on second down. They wind up scoring the touchdown third-down. But it's like Rodgers scrambling and throwing cross against his body to get the ball to devante atoms. I looked at how hard that looked. And then you see the patriots running like the double pass, you know, picking a big yard to James white on that play and they're running Koro Patterson at tailback. And it's just it looked like. You see the gap. Like, the coaching gap was was to me like jumped up more than anything else watching that. Because there were a couple of drives that were not great for the patriots. Right. There were a few times. And Brady looked a little frustrated by doing good job. Yeah. So I thought you know, that's spoke well to the Packers defensive strategy. But then what did they use to get out of those things they mixed it up? You know that that play you mentioned with Al and throwing it back. And then I'm Brady running down as a blocker and Collins worth at a really good job in the broadcast of explaining how disciplined you have to be legally with the linemen right that they couldn't move down field. Right. They had to wait there. And so I thought you know, when they were in a law. You have the coaches that have the different tools to mix in there to break out of it. And when James white kind of limps off, and as if he bit you put Patterson in there. So you know, that's the thing. That's interesting about the like how you tie those two together the double pass and Paterson they have an answer for. Everything. Like, that's like that's what sets New England's staff apart and has set New England staff apart for the last eighteen years. It's not I wanna say they're impervious to anything happening to them. But it does if feels like they've always had whatever happens to them. There's always some sort of answer. I mean, you know, this is going to sound crass, but they had a player murder someone during a season. I mean, what is more? You know, what is more jarring to a team that and you know, their teams that would take decades for I remember that that year the month before the questions were like, how are they going to handle the Tibo circus because Tibo was on the team at that point. There were rumors that the reason Tibo is there a sort of to take care of Erin now, obviously didn't work out. But like they had Tibo on the roster. And I remember that part of it. And it was like how are they going to handle this like it was such a circus with the jets, and it was such a circus with the Broncos. I mean a week into training camp. He might as well have been like. Chad Henny, you know, what I mean like, it's just they've always got an answer for everything. And here's what I think is interesting, you know, the inverse of that in Green Bay, they were always sort of ahead of the curve in terms of their across the hall policy. Were they have their coaches really challenge each other and evaluate each other constantly in that that cross training philosophy that Mike McCarthy had that got a lot of other coaches hired, you know, in the mid two thousand after that. But I think the problem is when you have that philosophy where you design yourself to be challenged by other people. But then you bring back a lot of the same people. You know, you stop being challenged may be stop forcing yourself to innovate. That's why I thought Mike pen was an interesting higher this off season because it was out side the box outside the umbrella. And at least at somebody. I it's a fresh set of ideas in there. I mean, Joe Philbin still there are a lot of these guys that know Mike McCarthy, they know how to talk to him. They know how to be around him when maybe he needs someone around. That's like, hey this. You're saying make things uncomfortable. Because if you're Joe Philbin. If you have a problem with Mike McCarthy got like this long history. You know, how to manage the problem? It's not a problem. Sometimes you need to have that tension. Look, it has to be a little not wait Todd Haley and Hugh Jackson, but you know, a little bit. Just dial. Okay. Jenny news item. Number three. The jets failed to reach the end zone in thirteen two six loss to the dolphins rookie quarterback. Sam darnold was picked off four times. So this was a talking talking about spectrums here. This is on the opposite end of the spectrum of darnold and testing opener in Detroit right now. The most entertaining game not I mean, I I once covered a six four games. So my standards are pretty low. But I would say that this is not far behind that. I we. The problem for the jets right now is it looks like darnold progressing, and you know, one of the things talking to people there one of the problems with him. Now is that he's not seeing it as fast as he did early in the year, and he's questioning everything, and that's a bad place for quarterback to be like his is aren't moving fast. He's just like and look I a couple of weeks ago. They got the point where he was starting to let it ripple little bit and just this back and forth and back and forth. There's one thing that gets a coach fired. It's the management of the court young quarterback. And that's why I think Todd on balance has done a good job there over the last four years. But if might mcalinden is truly safe, and that's what we've heard right if he's truly safe argue whether or not that should be the case or not. But if he's truly safe like you almost have to fire that bullet now, but you almost have to say, okay. Like we need to do something now. And I think it's interesting though, about darnold as you know, we said there were these games that were he let it rip. And he was you know, he was he looked like the best quarterback in the class will was the Detroit game. And it was the Denver game. I think each one where they ran for over two hundred and fifty all right, and we're just destroying teams. And I don't think that you know, that is necessarily indicative of needing open routes, but if you look at game sense, then look at how many disadvantageous situations he's been put in by the coordinators where maybe an unsuccessful run on first down. And then all of a sudden on second third year meant by yourself to make up the difference with curse, you know. All your receivers are injured, you know, Terrell priors gone. I don't know what he really has. To negate sort of the the blandness of the system that they're running right? Yeah. And I think that there's. I just think that right now. Right. If you're the if you're the jets Jenny like, it's. Do you blow the whole thing up? And I like, I think it's a question that like, and I'm not sure the Jeremy Bates is really to blame for what's happened there. But he had been away from the game for awhile. I think part of the part of the lure in. There are some people that had long long standing relationships with them there. But part of the lure of bringing him in was kind of he's from that like coaching family that McVeigh and Kyle and all these different guys are from same thing that help get mad Florida job in Tennessee is the play caller there. And so I think the question then becomes like do we wanna blow up everything around our young quarterback to what degree do we wanna blow it up, and how do we wanna structure going forward? And they're another team that's gonna I another team is going to look at look under every rock for their next coach if there's a change after this year, I think you know, the discussion of when darnold should start heading into the season. You know, there were questions of is. Is there enough around him? Like you mentioned Conor. You know, look at the people like the players. He's throwing to their enough around him as the line. Good enough. As are you going to do anything that's going to hurt him as a young quarterback? And he was so, you know, precocious early on and look to able to handle the kind of chaos that was you know, on a single play. And you felt like he would be fine going into the season. And I think we didn't talk probably enough about you know, is there is it the right coaching structure around him. Right. Like is the often coronate coroner going to be the right marriage for him? And I think it's sorta hard to look at the results this year and think it's trending the right direction. And so, you know, I think obviously that the trend now is to bring in you know, creative offensive head coach. And I think that the jets will go that direction. I think what's interesting about that, you know, in we're going to hear it so much, right? And that's the Lord that you're attached somehow to McVeigh or to Kyle Shanahan or Lincoln Riley, or whatever it's going to be this off season. Eddie. But it's like if you think about that in any other terms that outside of football like, you know, I was in a room with eighteen years for my sister. And I'm not a division one athlete, and she is Ringo. Starr was in a room with the Beatles for ten years. He just left to make shitty music while the rest of them did amazing things like just being around someone sometimes you can just be in the room, right like, and I think that maybe that's what we're seeing. And that's what's hard for these coaches to great example of it might Tomlin was hired off of Brad Childress staff. You know, like Mike Tomlin was hired. Brad Childress staff in Minnesota. Now he had been with Tony Dungy before that. But like the higher was made off of an okay team with an okay, Ed coach, and no one would ever. So see it with him with Brad Childress now. But that was the staff he was on nother reason to follow the rule by the letter of the law, be more creative and open mind in the hiring. And I think it's it's it's a matter of for a lot of these teams were look. Cleveland, the people that are say that they're not starting to process now to they better be starting the process now because they have this huge advantage over other teams. They're gonna be looking in that they can get to know, these coaches and so much of it to fire drill. If you wait till January, right? Whereas you're not really are. You really looking at twenty five guys know, you're going to interview the guy you're going to interview. And that those guys are probably gonna come off someone's list, and then you're gonna make a higher the advantage. The Browns have now is that they can do that. They can actually okay. Like, we're going to do background work on thirty five forty five coaches, and they're going to be some names on there that probably no one has on their list. But the very least we're going to have turned over those rocks. And we're going to figure out like if there is someone out there that everyone's missing because I don't I mean, Sean McVeigh. Again off Jay Gruden Stephan. Non-playoff? Tired of NATO non playoff team off Jay Gruden staff. Jay's done a good job in Washington. But nobody's regarding him as like some sort of genius. You know, that's where Sean came from. I it's it's interesting that way, it's interesting. You know, I think we're in the jets again, I think one of these teams is probably quietly already starting to take a peek at it where that could go from here. All right, news item number four. Vance. Joseph Broncos took their six loss in seven games in the coach took heat for his clock management late in Sunday's nineteen to seventeen defeat at the hands of Houston on Monday. John Elway when local radio and said that the team would stick by Joseph heading into the by week. I put this one in there because I wanna group and Connors idea group it with Oakland, and what's happening there in the NFC in the AFC west. We have a couple of teams that are sort of on the ropes and the Denver right now is the point where they're probably one of these teams. It's looking at head coach. And cannons. And they're one of these teams that's going to be in play for a quarterback in twenty nineteen and Oakland, isn't you know, Oakland's tied long-term to Jon Gruden, but there's a lot to fix there. So thought it'd be interesting to look at it this way and ask both you guys this question who's a war spot? Now, acoustical worse. Long-term spot right now. Denver oakland. I don't think there's I don't think I think Oakland is in a much worse long-term spot. Just because I think that there's probably some emotional mental things that need to be repaired there. I think there's a coach that needs to go into that locker room and start assuring some people that either they're going to be around or that they're valued here or that they're not just going to be jettisoned off in the middle of the season. And that they're going to come up with some sort of offense of plan that doesn't get the quarterback killed. And you know, I think there's a lot of things that need to happen there. But I think is interesting in Denver is I wonder if Elway sort of learned a lesson from that fire and brimstone streak that he went on a little bit before the the Broncos blew out the cardinals in that primetime game. It was Monday or Thursday for that. Like he was even going on the team's official radio station, just destroying Vance. Joseph. You know, saying that they're not doing the things that are in his particular department of expertise, right? And so I think that maybe. This was sort of a moment for Elway to say, you know, I also need to I need to give him better players. You know, they're not a lot of outside of the running back position in maybe one or two receivers not a lot to work with on the side of the ball. And I think that's something that maybe Ella has realized we're in Oakland were in sort of the other side of that sort of ego power trip. I think I would tell well, I would just say like, I think that. Oakland. Feels like they're a little ahead of Denver to me. Just because Oakland has already blown it up. And Denver's gotta make that decision now because they've got a lot of guys they've got a handful of guys that been core guys for them that are right at or on the wrong side of thirty Novon Miller is going to be there. So take him off us. But Brandon Marshall Chris Harris, Emmanuel Sanders, they've got a bunch of guys that are right there at thirty or pass thirty. They've been core guys for them for a long time that they're gonna have to make decisions on. And when you make those decisions it's like Seattle last year when you make those decisions, it's okay, we're sticking with them or okay? What's okay? We're gonna blow it up. And that's why I think Denver might be a little behind Oakland in that regard in that. At least they've blown it up are ready, and they're moving it in the direction that go in the direction of the coach is going to take it over the next half decade. Yeah. I was I was going to agree with the there. I was going to say that Oakland and a better spot. Just from the sense that you might not agree with the. Action or you might not like it. But they've already started on the direction, whereas the Broncos, I don't know what that direction as right? I mean, when they when they start over what is it going to look like, and you know, I think the the roster is you know, as flawed as Gruden probably viewed the raiders Rosser coming into the season. And so, you know, it's I, you know, I would think all of us have been critical of a lot of the moves the raiders have made. But you know, it is there on a path. And you know, it'll take a few years to see if the if that leads anywhere positive, whereas the Broncos, I don't think you could even say where they are right now. Right. Because you don't know who the quarterback next year. Right. You don't know who the coach going to be next year? No. You'd argue Oakland coach is going to be two or the who the quarterbacks can be another coach coach. You know, and then the rest of the roster. It's just again like I think both both have a lot invest, and they'll rookie classes to Denver's rookie class actually looks like the first time in like five or six years. They might have put together a pretty good rookie class was the running backs like you said, Bradley, Chubb of Cortlandt Sutton. There are some good players in their rookie class where you could see those guys being around for a long time. I just think it's a it's a it's a wing thing. Right. How many you know, it used to be we used to value the idea of team blowing it up because that's what you had to deal. But there are a lot of teams that aren't blowing it up anymore. They're just sort of treating it as a fluid process swapping players in and out and granted Denver's certainly on the older side of that spectrum. But I wonder you know, is it something that that truly needs to be detonated. Or is it something that you can sort of piecemeal if Elway can have another two or three good rookie class? Sure. Rookie. I mean, look the fact that rookies are cheap helps Bradley Chubb costs. The fifth pick cost ten years ago or probably talking about something else to Jenny news item. Number five. Steelers won their fourth street game on Sunday beating the ravens twenty three to sixteen to move into sole possession of first place in the AFC. North James Connor was the hammer again, rushing twenty four times for one hundred seven yards and catching seven more balls for fifty six yards and a touchdown. I mean the Steelers are definitely team is trending in the right direction. Right. I mean now, of course, there's going to be this. The the bell situation is hanging over their heads for about one more week now and his cryptic tweet. Obviously on on Monday that said farewell, Miami, which sort of indicated a return or not it's it's very hard to read on that. But they you know, they put their they put their confidence in Connor. And I think he's just gotten better as the season has gone on. And I think you saw the difference in Connor in this ravens game versus the first one which was a loss. The the the the bell tweet to me like that feels a little bit like a guy who has and look at last I checked the Steelers had not heard from him or his camp. It feels a little bit too mealy guy. Who's like totally overplayed his hand and lost this situation completely. And now is almost trying to not be the one to make the call like it's like you don't wanna be the one to call like. They don't want to be like I'm trying to put this in relationship terms. And now, I'm gonna screw up another analogy. So maybe guys can help me. Come up with. It's like, yeah. Well, let me I I got a workshop this a little because I was about to go with a really bad cop myself. Good good. Always so good thing. All right. So so it's like. It's like if if you're if if you I met somebody in your dating them, and you don't want to be the you may be you may be called them last to meet up. And then like, you don't wanna be the one that's constantly calling them. And so it's like all right like now, I'll see if she'll call back, and she'll be the one to set up the next one, and I've kind of feel like the bell is the one who's playing from behind here now. And so like he shoots out that tweet as a little bit of like, hey, I'm leaving Miami. And like you hear Steelers still haven't heard from him or his agent or anyone is camp, right? They're still totally in the dark, but it's like kind of feels like he's putting that out there as like, I don't wanna be the one to make the phone call. But if you guys call now, I've probably pick up there's nothing sadder than unrequited. You know, social media posturing, right? And that's what Levey on Belle has been doing now for the greater part of of eight weeks. Into the season in it's just like, whether it's his cryptic emoji use which we've chronicled very aggressively on this program, or now, the sort of half statement trial balloon statements, where it's like, oh, you know, I might be in the area. You know, then I think it's I think it's just sad the facility with the boombox over his head tomorrow. But think about how like just for a human appear -ly human standpoint. Like, you thought you were this, and then you are just replaced one for one. I mean be jarring. Maybe you can talk about that human terms seeing that happen like chill easily your place just straight up replaced in everything is going fine. And the other person Klay, frankly is like a lot more. I mean, that's just just purely for me. I mean, we've all in life at some point overplayed Eoghan, and we understand how crappy that feels. But man, I mean to do it at this public of in this public of ways gotta be just weird. I mean, I think the Steelers just handled this thing really, well, I mean, we discussed this all along. But, you know, just they they're approaches ban. Well, we're not gonna worry about who's not here. And they had a player that they had drafted that was in place to contribute. And even when things were shaky in the early goings, they were just kind of standing tall and kind of like letting it ride. And so I mean looking back on it. I think it was I think it was the right way to handle it. You know, they just kind of. Yeah. You know, they basically gave Connor the confidence to play the way that he hasn't been obviously, he's a good player. But it does help to have the backing of you know, when you have teammates saying like I'm cool with rolling with Connor when you have marquees pouncey sang week too. I mean, hey, yeah. That's great. And they clearly saw something to those guys. You heard those guys what they were saying it was back in week one thought he was a really good player. This is sort of the problem all running backs up to right? Like, it's not that Levy on bell can't play. It's not that like something any of these guys aren't great players Zeke Elliot Todd Gurley. David Johnson of these guys aren't great players is that this too easy to find them is just too many of them. And so if you're a team, and you look at this the supply and demand like the supply and demand question here for running backs like it doesn't work out for players at that position. It's just I'm not that does not taking away. Does that take away anything from anyone at that spot? It's just too easy to find them and Connors, and other example of it. I mean, Connor I believe was third rounder. Right. Like what in the third round fourth? Okay. So he went in the fourth round draft when the saints got Alvin Kamara in the third round the chiefs got Kareem hunt in the third round. And again, that's not to say that Leonard fournette like the Jags aren't. Happy with Leonard four netted four the Panthers aren't happy with Christian McCaffrey at eight. It's just the reality of it. The reality of it is is it really worth spending a top ten pick or fifteen million dollars a year on a player position where their answers, just everywhere. It's the time and everybody's waits for every week. It's time for Connor's fantasy update. So two in a row, and obviously pop champagne last week this week, we take it to another level. I brought you guys in some gifts for short of work shopping sort of a lifestyle brand hashtag forward are are in the forward. Wow. Moving forward in the season. So there actual hats, which I will tweet these out tomorrow when the podcast goes up. That's fantastic. Yeah. So is that like a that looks like it's a New Jersey hat like there's that the state of New Jersey that rubbed off that used to be a lightning bolt when I was skater. This repurpose. This is the new this is fashion repurposing yet like it of old garments prototype stage. Maybe you're pretty excited about where the teams that. Yeah. I mean, you know, we walked in facing the second place team in the league. Obviously, you know, a lot of people dismissed are win the week before and said that was just, you know, maybe, you know, some fluky nece some people on a buy week. But man, I mean, I think we might actually be the doling dolars out of the Duracell blow out of the week this week sixty point resounding victory. Everybody contributing all the way to Valda scant Ling in the night game there. My my new boy. So, you know, we're we're looking far and wide in in the bandwagon is still there's there's there's open seats. So you're more than welcome to Pat merchandise. We've got alcohol we've got anything you could possibly look for. We are. We are a team. I I would like to. Just you know, along these lines, you're still twelve in the standing out of twelve and I'm only bringing this up because I check the standings this morning, and you're twelve and Mike careful, oh who we stoke the pod wars battle with a few weeks ago. He's at tenth and that just made me angry that the two of you guys tried to wage a power play against me because homegirl over here is third. I'm contention. I don't like my chances to win. But I'm just playing to break even here. And so, you know, I just can't believe that number ten and number twelve in early came at number three. We're gonna release decks. Is that gonna have to wait another way? Well, we're gonna have to check the subscriber counts. Remember, we're sort of we're sort of holding the public hostage at this point. And it Mike Tomlin say we don't want. We want. Here's hostages. So that that's kind of what we're looking for my my fancy team, by the way. No, you guys are pumped to hear about it. Right. So we've talked the whole year about how I brought together. All these guys was kind of sorted pass. And I wanted like that tension in the locker room, and it really paid off this week. So I had mixing on a on a by at Barclay on a by I had digs out hurt in somehow like that that tension in the locker room the energy that that brought like may show up in a practice fight on Wednesday. But but everybody everybody everybody's locked in. Right. Like everybody's locked in. Because all these guys there's such wholesale paid each other. Okay. That's credit to you. That's the way I built this team and this week with no Barkley with no mixing with no digs somehow. I pulled out a win. Now. If you guys look here, I don't I don't really understand. How this works says one hundred one hundred right, but somehow they gave me another win. So I'm somehow I'm seventy two recount going to say, I maybe I shouldn't be talking about publicly shouldn't call. It would not alert. You know, what I would do Albert? I would put on your hat, and I would just move forward. I like it. I like it. And we're all going to move forward. See you guys next week. This expect he does know how this works every Tuesday morning. I put out the call for questions on Twitter. I pick six if I pick yours, you gotta like that means I touched that little heart there on Twitter, and you get an answer here on the podcast. We're start with number one. That's from Antanas. I totally messed up your name Fahim. That's at and Thomas Tania's Antonius, something like that. Theme who will be the Browns next head coach, I'm gonna give you as four names that I think will least pique the interest of the Brown's number one Lincoln Riley for obvious reasons says Baker mayfield's former coach at Oklahoma number two Matt Campbell at Iowa State NFL people think very highly of him as a program builder as a guy who can reach young players, and if he can put together an NFL staff, I think he's got a real shot at that job in Cleveland, he's from northeast Ohio. He's actually from the he's from the town that Paul Brown is from which is an interesting side note to all that and to names at the NFL level both quarterbacks guys that I think would make sense for for the Browns patriots OC, Josh mcdaniels where I think you'd have to look at what Chris Ballard the colts GM would say to John Dorsey is good friend the Cleveland GM about mcdaniel's and then Vikings offensive coordinator, John. Filipo who has some roots in northeast Ohio, and who has coached for the Browns previously, which I think is a positive given all the complications that that organization has number two from displays fans. That's at this place fans is the ravens insistence on involving Lamar accident hurting, the offenses flow inefficiency this place. I don't think so I don't think that that's the issue. They're using him summit receiver. I think they there is an effort to get him involved in different ways. I personally don't think that it's at the root of the problem. I think part of the problem is that they did turn the offense upside down some in the off season, which I think helped them early in the year. And now they're going through some of the growing pains. But that's part of the deal. They drafted Lamar Jackson after John Harbaugh. Put it on his staff to find a way to make it work. And make it work for both flacco and Jackson finding offense that would work for both those guys. So they did rework some things, and that's, you know, for mardi Morin wig to you know, to to to to Greg Rome into to urban to all the guys in that staff. Like, they did some things to make an off to put together an offense to make it work for both guys. They're able successfully do that we saw that in September. And now, I think you're seeing some of the natural regression where teams have got tape on what they're doing. And they're starting to catch up to it. And so this is kind of I think some natural growing pains here question number three which divisions. Do you think are locked have multiple playoff teams? I thought this question was interesting. That's from at Joey Deeks at Joey go Deeks Joey card, I'm assuming this is a demon deacon 'cause he's at the little top hat there. Which divisions. Do you think are locked to have multiple playoff teams? I don't know that there's anybody. I any I will consider a lock I think the closest thing to a lock would be the NFC south the falcons are playing really well, and you got Carolina. There which you know, I think Carolina will be the best team in a bunch of other divisions and they're playing on offense and a very creative in different manner. Cam Newton's playing great the Panthers. And I think the saints are locked the Panthers are getting closer to being a sure bet to get in the playoffs and the saints. I think are locked to get in. So the NFC closest thing to locked have multiple playoff teams. And I think the number two division in the league that I would look at along. Those lines would be the AFC west where I think the chiefs are absolutely getting in. No newsflash there. And the chargers are pretty good bet to get in our question number four from Jake MAs. That's Atma's Jake do genuinely believe James Connor is as good a running back as loving on bell. Or is the Steelers offensive line? Just that good. I think James Connor like I said earlier is proof of how easy it is to replace a really good running back. But what I mean by that is replace a really good running back with someone who may be ninety or ninety five percent of what the previous guy was. And so no, I don't think James is quite as dynamic as levian bell. I don't think he's quite the receiver. Levian bell has been even though he has put up good numbers in the passing game. But he's plenty good enough to win with. And again, this is part of the problem. Running backs have is to easy to find guys at that position. And so no, I don't think James Connors is good as loving bell. But I think he's plenty good enough to win to win with. And that creates a problem for all running backs and FARs where your draft it. How you're paid and all the rest of it question. Number five from Michael cazar at Michael chasms should the buccaneers cleaned house. I probably happens. I'm not gonna say whether they should or not. But I think it probably happens. Jason lies done a pretty decent job. Putting that roster together. But typically, you don't get a third head coaching higher. And they've really push their tape. The chips the middle of the table with cutter last year after the Gruden fluid flirtation fell apart they double down under cutter and Dirk cutter turns around he hands play calling off to Todd monkeying. They did the things that you do when a coaches they did some of the things that you do when the coaches getting his last shot. And so I think this is cutters last shot. I there's a good chance. He's gone already fired his defensive coordinator, and that would put Jason light on shaky ground because again typically, and I I know lovey Smith wasn't as higher. But typically, you know, GM's don't see it to third coach if they haven't made the playoffs over their tenure question number six final question for the week from air D at air football John Harbaugh to Denver next season. And this is an interesting one because I do think that there's a good chance that John Harbaugh is somewhere else in two thousand and nineteen. I don't think. Inc. That. I don't think John Harbaugh would have Denver at the top of his list. Do I think he would. I think if you were out in Baltimore you consider all options. I don't think that he would be available for very long. I think he's one of these guys that you know, like Andy Reid six years ago. Like one of these guys who would hit the market will be snapped up. Very very quickly. I personally think the match with John Elway would be a little tough to very strong personalities. And I also from what I understand. I John Elway may may wind up looking at somebody who's more of. More of a forward thinking offense of mind, and it's not to say John Harbaugh, not four thank you. But he doesn't have the offense of background. And I know that always done some work looking at college offenses and looking at some of the stuff that Andy Reid, and Sean McVay and all these guys are bring into the league. And so I could very much see John Elway plucking someone that he believes has that sort of offense of mind that sort of offensive creativity is open minded enough to do different things ofensive Lii, and the I'd see John Harbaugh probably falling in place. Like, I don't know a place place at the jets. I think would make sense for John Harbaugh. I appreciate you guys. Coming out as always we appreciate your feedback and give me on Twitter at Albert breer on Facebook at Arbor on Instagram at Albert underscore breer. You can leave us a review or rating. Also that's important for the algorithm on on I tunes. Appreciate you guys doing that. Again, we want this to be your show. So your feedback does count here. And I want to hear it from all of you. And always always always remember to listen to the other QB NFL podcast, including the gambling podcast the podcast that Gary gramling and Andy Booth annoyed. Do twice a week. And we'll more time this podcast, the QB podcast with Al breer were all on one feed. Now, you can find us on Spotify, Stitcher. Tune in Google play apple podcasts wherever you guys. Get your shows. Same time next week. We'll see them. Tip of the hat to Albert another strong. Addition of 'em QB. Did you know your favorite team has a daily podcast on the locked on podcast network? Sealers fans, we have you covered with locked on Steelers. Cowboys fans it's locked on Cowboys and chiefs fans it's locked on chiefs. You get the picture. Search locked on your favorite team. Search on apple podcasts or Google podcasts for locked on your favorite team or tell your smart speaker to play podcast locked on your favorite team locked on podcast network. Your team every day.
The Orange and Black Insider Bengals podcast: Hello, Goodbye
"The happy new year everybody. It's twenty twenty and it's another episode of the Orange Black Insider bengals podcast. Happy to have you with us for the first official show of twenty twenty. I Anthony Costanza. I hope that you had a great holiday season. Christmas Hannukah Festival guests. All of the holidays around this time of year is is also a a happy new year. Hopefully you all had a safe and fun New Year and joined as usual by my co host on Sharon John. Happy New Year Buddy new New Year new New Team maybe I guess in a way. It's rare when I understand a reference Mary Festus to you to your happy when it whenever every Mister Costanza calls it. Yeah Yeah exactly. I haven't did you ever get new years I did. I did we down town and Don't remember much so mission accomplished. Yeah you know that's usually in the mornings when you hurt. That's usually a sign of previous good night so I missed in some PD lights. Nice to a All's well prepared works man. That's it takes a little bit helps I clown for being a child but like I'm I'm fine afterwards. It's not so yeah that helps and it is. It's not like a taste terrible or anything Anywhere this one didn't taste that good but whatever we'll look another next. Yeah I mean that's not with the we shouldn't be promoting hangover cures on the this podcast. AARP calling on glad to take their money. Yeah there you go. We can We can maybe hit them up for sponsorship or something You know we. We've got a lot to get to in this first episode of the year. We're feeling pretty good about I mean I guess as good as you could about a team that was two and fourteen Feeling good about some news at that came out. What about the team? You know the win all of that and we're GonNa talk about some of that stuff but unfortunately we received news that former Cincinnati bengals head coach. Sam Wyche big figure. Within the organization on Thursday January January second passed away at the age of seventy four years old. Very sad news. A bit unexpected. I think to too many You know he had had some major. Your health issues had a heart transplant a couple of years ago but really sad news and You know not one you start the new year off and it's like wow okay David. Stern passes away. And then Sam Weiss passes away it's like wow it's just kind of some some big names here two days into the New Year John On. I know you weren't You're a twinkle in your father's I guess When when Sam Weiss patrol the sidelines for the Bengals your your thoughts when the news hit and you know I know you've seen videos and pictures and all kinds of stuff about about Sam but I think we'd be remiss if you didn't can start off the show Kind of Sheri- memories and thoughts about him on on the day that he passed away. Yeah I remember hearing about his heart transplant industry general health struggles of recent and I wasn't one hundred percent positive if you had dealt with cancer before but it's a it's a cruel disease that can take any one of us and unfortunately I remember looking like his record overall. The bengals and I was shocked to learn that he was actually under five hundred for his career and I was equally shocked. ACQUA just really didn't matter. I think in terms of his legacy here because it he he was like the one coach that actually like did something with this franchise. You know even in the later your years of Paul Brown air where he was still running the show he was a meaningful presence to this organization. I don't think there's really a bad memory. Any bengals in the eighties really hasn't been because in large part when he left when everything started going downhill. Obviously Paul ground passed away. And then you know Mike Progress let Weisgall he went on to coach buccaneers in the nineties. Happened whenever but even in even in his eight years here radio I think you know only had like sixty four total wins in one hundred thirty games. He slept through playoff Wednesday. Still obviously led the best franchise record at the time in nineteen eighty two super bowl a game that they should have one and not only that but just like Paul Brown on such a tremendous innovator of the games great building block of the NFL. We know today you know if people think the west coast originator so originated in originally on the the Harvard That's how that boomer citzens career really took off in the middle of Joe Montana his legacy is impacts in the. NFL is so vast. Even the we didn't have tremendous success as a head coach. Just overall impact on everyone especially in the best times of Goofball back in the twentieth century. It's immeasurable and it. It goes beyond just whatever whatever I would say by and large by all accounts every interview that our seniors. Just a very personable. Very welcoming hilarious man. That was just a last year round so definitely recipes to him. Yeah we've got a an and for those of you joining us live and for those who watch the video after the fact whether it's ONS junk dot com YouTube or even maybe facebook facebook live video after the fact. But for those of you joining us live they can and see this as well. We've got a statement from bingles. President Mike Brown on the passing of Sam Whitish. Sam was a wonderful guy. We got to know We got to know him as is both a player and a coach is coach had great success And took us to the Super Bowl. He was friends with everyone here both during his tenure as head coach in afterwards afterwards we not only liked him. We admired him as a man he had great generosity of spirit and lived his life trying to help others. Express our condolences to Jane in his children. Zack and carry sorry. I don't WanNa be the guy. That's a little cynical but I mean the why Mike Brown relationship actually ended with a little bit of acrimony towards the end there you know. I think Sam Weiss years ago was kind of asked you know. Why did you leave the bangles? Or how did that play out. He you kind of set a little tongue in cheek. While I found out I was on my way to the office and I found that I was fired or you know in the Mike Brown disputed that a little bit but regardless bygones is be bygones that was a long time ago and a Mike Brown in the bengals organization. Obviously Missing Sam. Why she no? It's interesting you you talk about. Sam Washes His his Sasser lack act thereof in terms of overall overall record. And all that kind of stuff you know one thing that stood out to me is as the Bengals head coach. I mean that was one of the the feathers Marvin Lewis Cap. Right is that he was the all time winningest head coach at the most wins. He had the highest winning percentage. But he didn't have why shad which was a super bowl appearance much less playoff wins and oddly enough when Sam Weiss was kind of had had his back against the wall so to speak with the Cincinnati bengals that's when his teams ended ended up playing the best in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven Cincinnati went four and eleven and there was talk of. He's not making it through it. He's not making pass that season much less into nineteen eighty-eight Lo and behold the bengals twelve before and make it to the Super Bowl. Nearly win that Super Bowl next year following that they go eight. Nate I believe at the end of that season was the infamous. You don't live in Cleveland Game And they finish eight. They missed the playoffs. Well nineteen ninety eighty. Of course they under him go nine and seven make the playoffs. Get it. Get another win there and You know then the infamous Bo Jackson game occurred there so my I guess my my thoughts about him were this back against the wall and when he needed his team to perform arm he got him to perform he had. He won quite a few big aims. He was personality that was really unmatched matched. And especially in in Bengals. I mean when you look at the coaches after him. There was not one that really war is hard on the sleeve. Like that and really I mean Marvin. Lewis was a was a good man and a good football coach. Sometimes he got a little terse with the media and fans and all that kind of stuff You know you look Zack Taylor. He seems the candidate. Shucks you know young go-getter type of guy the guys before them a lot of Blah Personalities but Sam Weiss really brought the personality to to the team in like you said He. It was very innovative. John Very innovative in terms of the offense they ran that offense they ran in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight was just you know the play action action in the West Coast offense the just doing all flea flickers and all kinds of stuff that was not part and parcel of the NFL really so much at at the time because it was kind of a running back heavy league running back centric league at the time Yeah you had your Marino's Jim Kelly's and whatnot but You know he kinda helped boomer get to that echelon of quarterbacks in the League at the time I don't mean to put you on the spot here but I just Kinda want the an hour on some type of answer to this question like since since why she had the personality and he had relative success to the bengals standards and then and he was fired by Mike Brown. You think that at the time it could be classified as a similar situation to win. Jimmy Johns inspired by Jerry Jones. And we're like Mike's you know. Fresh Ego as the new owner of the team got the Making a wrong decision because obviously Johnson won super bowls with Dallas. Jerry thought he could do it on his own in a super bowl there but do you think those situations where Cata similar they can be classified in a similar category. Yeah I I mean similar obviously Jimmy. Johnson had the two the two super bowl victories. which was a you know? Obviously making it a bit different but I think I think there are a lot of similarities. Aaron it's aw it's pretty apropos that you bring that up because I was thinking about this today upon the news of his passing in and and you know I thought about you know Mike Brown probably at the time. When he took over he probably got along with white okay but at the time it was Kinda like look? We're not getting to where we WANNA go. I've got a vision. I've got a plan. I WanNa do things my way. Much like Jerry Jones. I want a new coach. I want a new quarterback what he probably tried to do is sell the idea of a David Klingler or someone like that. In the draft to Sam Wyche Sandwich aboard were that he was comfortable with boomer even though boomer former showed a couple of signs of regression. You know in the in the ninety one season but You know played well in ninety to take him to the to the playoffs and I think there was probably just a disagreement. There that's my take on it that of the vision and where the team was going to be headed in terms of of Sam. I'm white and boomer Esiason kind of being cycled out much like Mike Brown saw towards the early eighties when Forrest Gregg and Ken Anderson recycled recycled out of the team and they moved onto. Why shouldn't boomer and that you know at the time moving on from candidates into boomer while Anderson had a lot of years of experience You know that that wasn't didn't sit too great with a lot of fans because of what can it can Anderson meant to the team so You know I think that was just kind of like you. Said maybe the owner trying to put the stamp on on his his stamp on things getting out of his father's immense shadow and it didn't work and hasn't worked work since so. That's my two cents on it. I I don't know if you have a take on that I'd love to hear it. I I never. I really realized that until we were just talking about it always just here like the two main decisions that were made our weren't made I guess towards the the casting off the loss to the west coast where he went on to create a dynasty in the in the eighties. And then the firing of Sam Wash Wife Excuse me that kickoff ninety so it it just like we're headed influence in work together in San Francisco so just always interesting to me. In the you know now the decisions are the innocence that stunted what could have been since ninety one end ended up kick-starting in San Francisco in in how you know somethings something. NFL are are more similar than you might think. Yeah and I think I think why shouldn't fortunately leaves a little bit in the shot. You you kind of Freudian slip. Bill Walsh Manner Bill Walsh. It worked as assistance with the BENGALS And Walsh was kind of the next guy in line as as many hardcore bengals infamously. No Walsh was the next guy line. He didn't get the job. He moved on to San Francisco. And you know. Oddly enough. Sam Weiss end up meeting in the in the Super Bowl in the late eighties but why she doesn't get the credit that walsh she does for creating the type of offense that that were so innovative in the eighties have evolved into what many incarnations of what we're seeing today play action based in and no huddle and all that kind of stuff. That's those are the things that Montana assize in Walsh in Whitish which ran a lot and Why does it get the credit? Because he doesn't have the Super Bowl wins. Walsh did but those are the kind of things those two were working on while you're with the Bengals So the bengals the the the NFL loss innovative mind a great personality. All leave it with this if you want to. I don't know where you can find. It may be on Youtube. Used to be on the NFL network. Top Ten countdown So maybe it somewhere in their archives or something but if you go back there is there is a top ten I think it was top. Ten rivalries or something And it was one of them was the old. AFC Central in the coaches within. It was chuck Knoll. Sam Weiss Jerry Glanville bill and Who am I forgetting? I think it was Marty Schottenheimer at the time and and and maybe Bud Carson arson as well but anyway in the eighties these guys. It was four coaches huge personalities. Real old school approach guys and Jerry Orlando was just a wacky wacky dude and He and Sam. Why would run scores up on each other? Do things that are just. You would not do today. Maybe maybe for Bill Bell Jack. That's about it. You would just not do these. Things today Post game press press conferences. They would like talk noise about each other openly. I mean it was. It was hysterical. So if you can find some of that stuff I find it too. I'll send the link out but it was it was hysterical to watch and I remember. There was a game against the Houston. Oilers I think it was. Nineteen Ninety nine hundred eighty eighty nine. The bengals missed the playoffs. To ten seconds left. The bengals are up sixty to sixty seven on the oilers in San Wai shops to go for field goal with ten seconds. Left in it makes sixty three to seven Ads just the kind of guy he was on the football field. You know that's just the kind of guy he was on the football field in. I you know I remember a bit of him. I was pretty young but I remember a bit of them. I remember the Cleveland. You don't live in Cleveland Game you know so for for a guy like me that didn't grow up in Cincinnati. He was a guy that really resonated with me. It's a little shocking to hear him pass. I knew we had some health problems. But a Little shocking you here in passing. We didn't WANNA start off the show on a sad note. But we would be remiss if we didn't mention Sam Weiss talk about his tenure with the bengals because he meant so much this team and He was he was a Guy John. I thought did a great job of wrangling in a huge personalities and harnessing that to get to some success and you know Marvin Lewis. Did it a little bit on some levels At times but not to the same level sandwich did so. That's those are kind of some of the things I think about when I think about Sam Wyche. We're seeing a lot of I. I see you see a lot of comments here about why should the old AFC central and all of that so Yeah R A P Sam but we you will remember you fondly for sure. I'm Jillian. Weinberger hosted the impact podcast from. Vox about how powerful people affect the rest of us this season. We're looking at the big ideas from all the people running for president. In Two thousand twenty hit this opioid crisis head on public option. Schmooze away from Moslem fueled energy efficiency. And it's GonNa be a Great Wall and it's going to work. A lot of those ideas have actually been tried before like that wall. Trump wants to to build the gallon. Zona has had one on its border for decades. I don't understand why individual the people have a right to have a fence and yet a country can't Senator Warren's proposal to end the OPIOID crisis it's based on what we did to fight the eight deputies we would like to name it the Ryan White Care Act and the green new deal. Germany tried something similar in two thousand. This solution this season season on the impact. We have those stories. How the big ideas from twenty twenty candidates worked or didn't work in other places or at other times? These are the stories that will help us understand what might happen if these proposals get rolled out here in the next four years. Subscribe to the impact on Apple podcasts. Or your favorite podcast APP to get the first episode on Wednesday January eighth so this is the black insider bengals podcast. We're talking to bengals. News and notes were taught. We're going to talk about the bengals end of the season. And what's ahead for them. As the two thousand twenty off season is basically upon them. Technically and we'll talk about some season awards. Some current coaching situations strategies. You know some things. They may look at going forward in this off season. If you're new to this show join us. Live live every episode on Cincy junk without Com where we have the live youtube stream as well as efface book stream on the Cincy Jungle facebook page and we welcome commute to the livestream. If that's how you're joining us if you want to catch the show after the fact that you're not able to catch the show live. Get it on itunes stitcher spotify Google play megaphone iheartradio as I mentioned on Youtube as well so get the show. How you can so doc Just like right as announced in wish was passed away the the NFL announced the angles. Coaching staff would be going down the mobile to coach one of the senior bowl rosters. It'd be then and the Detroit. Lions tour picking third over on the draft after they're gonNA take the Typically two of the worst teams that going down to mobile. I've been to the senior bowl from has two years Last year they had John Gruden's raiders down there Near the team I think before that or I think actually got you also that was Cal Shanahan's forty niners Vance. Joseph broncos. Were down there a couple years before four. So when you're when you're down there you learn a lot about what the coaches F is looking for. How they really structure in the practice and also typically more times than not? You'll see teams. Who coached the senior bowl? Invest a lot of the draft picks in senior role players interesting last year when the bengals didn't really have a coaching staff at the time that the senior bowl what's happened. They didn't really have really any coach coaches at all dancing. They had their handful of scouts. And maybe a couple of assistants who are on the way out of this the coaching turnover in general so it was really hard to gauge. What the Bengals were planning to do? At the time. The senior bowl was happening. It was also in Brian. Kellyanne was announced by Jon. gruden about people the the offense coordinator so kind of just seen a last year. The bengals have like three coaches under contract in January and this year they have a full coaching. The staff full offseason to work with and then the coaching the senior bowl. And I guess the one big story line right now are like kind of storyline. That could be something is revolves around Bill Callahan because the redskins hired Ron Rivera as their head coach to a like a five year deal. He hired Jack del Rio as the defensive coordinator of the guy that the the bengals were looking at hiring last year. The same position but bill. Callahan was the interim head coach that Rivera's replacing and he's now on the open market and there were rumors. There's last year. That Zack Taylor who was the unofficial announced head coach. He wanted to hire. Callahan has often flying coach. Callahan couldn't be bought out of Washington's contract ends up hiring Jim Turner so we're now year into the the Taylor. Turner Relationship Coach Offense Line Coach and it seems like for the most part of the coaching staff is going to remain the same but if there could be a couple of guys on the hot seat that could replace Turner might be a guy and Callahan's available. He could be replace him. So Anthony in terms of replacing Callahan. Fraternal I think we would all agree upon that unanimously. Would you be interested. Say That Callahan doesn't get a lot that interest other teams in bringing him on as a consultant even though it would still be Turner with you know has the mainstay of what goes on offense library. The latter is actually a you. You know I didn't know if you were going to present the latter option as a possibility and I didn't really think about it as a possibility candidate consultant with Jim. Turner still being offensive line coach. Had actually I'd be onboard without more so than the former. I think the bengals notoriously have an in Zagreb Taylor to his credit brought in more assistance and stuff like that this year. I think he'd beefed up the coaching staff more so than it had been in previous years. I think maybe by a couple coaches but still I mean it. They more is more more hands in the pot. oftentimes helps especially a team in transition. I I you and I both have been pretty critical of Jim. Turner especially in the in the off season when they hired him when in the in the first part of the year when the bengals offensive line was really struggling but the second half of this year really after the bye when the bengals altered their scheme when they did did some different things up front with blocking they rotated guys to to find the best players. Possible the offensive line played a lot. Better her the the second half of the season Bobby Hart played a lot better. The second half the season now is it. It still maybe at an average level if not below average but but it's a lot better than what he was You know he played better. He saw some things from Fred Johnson in the final final game. He actually looks like he can. He can play a little bit. Michael Jordan flashed towards the as he got more snaps and I love what what Matt Mimic says on twitter. You know these guys that are getting higher. PF grades these rookies or guys that are you know so so many people are quick. Lambasts those guys saying you know they have low. PF scores terrible players while when they have limited amount of snaps and they don't get more snaps to not only get better but make more positive. Plays I mean I understand the concept there so You Know I. I like what I've seen from the offensive line in terms of growth. I would like to see John Williams out there under Jim Turner and get a chance. It's for him to coach that first round pick I would like to maybe see Jim. Turner Brian Callaghan. Put the the actual five guys that they definitely want hopefully have them healthy. Go out there. And then you've got that value veteran coach voice in Callahan Guy who has been a head coach in the league. A guy who is Coach at the college level as head coach. You know a guy who is known for his offensive prowess. That's Kinda Zack. Taylor I think wanted in some form last year be it has a defensive coordinator or what have you. He wanted that guy to lean on. He's got his son on the staff he's tight with. I mean it just makes a lot of sense sense. I see the value in getting rid of Turner and just replacing him with Callaghan. I I do see the value in doing that but you know I think you saw. Aw a unit take some strides towards the end of the year. And I'm I'm I'm a little more hesitant now to say you know kick shown the door and especially with with the option you talked about with you have. Callahan is a consultant Yeah I think you do have to give credit credit's due and at its I duNNo. It's not responsible. But I think it's more accurate to to put that revival of the offense Aligarh another revival but just the better utilization of their talents balanced with with what personnel. They have what scheme that they needed to run with. Joe Mixing running game. I think those also a collective unit with with Callahan and also Taylor recognizing what strengths they had and realizing that what they were doing was not working at all. It was the worst run running game league and just the adaptation adaptation of more more of a power in a man scheme mm-hmm to whatever you know. Tell they off line and the not. The no hesitation moves to bench billy price you know when he was doing bad and to give Fred Johnson Simpson tries rise up there and took two stitchery Hawkins Center and to prevent John Miller I right guard. Even when he wasn't fully healthy so the personnel moves off on the offense lying give Turner the benefit of the doubt. I don't know if I continued to trust him going forward. But but this year has lead my concerns about his ability to develop talented town in. Yes I do think that he shouldn't be outright fire. Despite what our preconceived notions were about him. I still think that there are some questions about his character but again I don't know man I just go off of what I've read. And what a what was previously reported over the past years or so so yes the benefit of the Dow can be slightly or givens. You we can't forget about the whole situation. I still think that that's definitely only blemish that I if not anything else is still cloudy over his overall character and whatnot but also Callahan. I think last year there was a lot of rumors or talk about how you know. One of Taylor's first hires would be Mike Sherman. The you know his father in law who is a former head coach with the packers. He worked under him and texting an eminent with the Miami Dolphins hiring like an offense of consultant or just like an offensive assistant. Whatever Marvin Lewis is doing for her? It would be a very good apt. Comparison comparison a guy who doesn't have direct responsibility with anyone unit but a guy who understands whatever scheme in the type of often trying to run into bounce off his better leadership I think those that's just a role that people pigeonholed Sherman for last year Banal. I think would greatly for that but the problem is like you said this is like the most deep packed Packed Full Bench coaching staff that we've seen in recent memory thing like it's the largest spangles coaching staff ever ye like. Really Zack. Taylor had new office built for his new. Coach's this obstinate Tour the tour the facility in August like I saw like new office spaces like next to the indoor facility next locker room late and I was told they were freshly built for for this new coaching staff. So it would have to take some type of I think some type of turnover there in terms of coaches leaving for other job opportunities and we can get that in a minute but it's also the the fact that not only do you have turner who has made a case to be brought back with. You also have assistant coach as well. Ben Myrna believe is the name was also deserves some credit for developing these young guys so it would be a lot of voices in the room mainly surrounding about one topic. But I do think that you have to value whatever veteran leadership and also familiar her also. The fact that Callahan was Taylor's college coach Nebraska. That just a general experience with him and bringing him with the Sun. It just makes a lot of sense but you're right. We can't just completely alterner because we do have to give him credit for whatever developments that he's made with with these young guys turning slightly turn around this offense line to some whatever respectable unit and I. There's a lot of people that say. They liked what they saw they talked about. Joe makes getting another eleven hundred yards season after a terrible. Start to the season Now a lot of a lot of those yards skies a lot of those yards. Were on Joe Mixing. I mean he he was he who is really a make things happen but Towards the end the scheme really opened up some things for for the for the team but You know the the other are cited this John and we'll get to the senior bowl aspect in a second. I think back to back comments one both in the youtube chat in one in the live. Facebook Austin Trans is. Do you think the coaching staff is changing or The same going forward in twenty twenty And then you've got Joseph Stop in facebook saying bring Joe Brady with Borough Joe Brady. Is the passing game coordinator for Lsu And and is kind of the hot name now. And it's kind of in vogue over the past couple of seasons for teams to go after these young guys in college to come up and just I randomly Kingsbury is one of them so You know I I'm not saying Brady's GONNA come in and be a head coach but You so he could be looked at in some capacity maybe a similar role with an NFL team and You know get a pay raise. Or what have you but I mean all in all do you see part. Part of me says you're tuned fourteen team. There is absolutely no way. You shouldn't talk about potential changes but part of me says this unit really never got a fair shake from the get-go they got a late start. Had the injuries the HA. So I'm like I don't I don't know right and you you even with the late start which I do give them some type of benefit of the doubt with add some type of leeway in terms of you know they're overawe autism claimed last year in how Russia was even still like it. It still took him a long time to hire defensive coordinator. They went through a lot of names on guys who interviewed that eventually. Just never stuck may add. I don't know if you want to call it set on Lou Room but technically settle on a guy after you know however many interviews so it. It's a matter of trust and then finding the right guy again but also recognizing just like Turner. The anteroom didn't turn around his unit in some respects in got most of some lose some of those young guys to. It's just a matter of I think if there's going to be guys are leaving. It's going to be guys that weren't hired last year so you had I think. Twenty four coaches were hired on. I think seventeen or twenty four inches Ronstadt on-staff last year seventeen in them were hired in twenty nineteen. She had seven leftovers from Marvin Lewis era and the most notable ones or the special teams guys during Simmons and Special Teams Coordinator knitter writing. Combs is Assistant L. teams. I think Tom Hello Cerro. I believe it was. Who's really got the emphasis on anything? Bengals information in terms of reports. Sports he was talking about. They're they're getting interested in other jobs as well. If anyone on the bengals staff is GONNA get some type of promotion. It's probably going to be sentenced because believe it or not. The bengals did lead league and something and it was way too devi away for special teams. According to pro football outsiders they were the best teams unit in the NFL by far and they did it without really like walking upon her field or anything it was consistency on punt returns. Kick this holiday. Yeah Yeah have. Career seasons from brain will kick return to the Stanley Morgan as best as a rookie like phenomenal performance. Weekend we got in why they may remain competitive in most of these teams. So I do like Simmons was. I think he was probably the most serious candidate to be the in house replacement for Marvin Lewis your head coach. But unfortunately there's not a lot of head coaching openings. This year for him to get an opportunity somewhere else but for freshly hired head coach somewhere. Or maybe maybe you know For Dallas example. Who is maybe find Jason Gary the worst teams coach? He can get an opportunity there for a big organization so I think those are the guys that were notable guys that we could be looking at getting opportunities somewhere else. There's also Woah Dante Jones and Robert Livingston the cornerbacks in stages coach respectively. That were here during the leader portions of the Marvin Lewis era that also get opportunities elsewhere. Those contracts are expiring so I think for the vast majority if not all the coach their higher last year are coming back for twenty twenty. But there's always surprises if there's some type of promotions to a big organization. Yeah I see a couple people saying you know fired Jim. Turner gotTA gotTa Get rid of them. I see others kind of saying you know in a room Mojo kind of in a similar boat. I mean I think those two are the most at risk in terms of potential changes but You know I I oh I think I think a lot of people wanna see what this team does with a a full off season with a with some new high I picks with a hopefully healthier roster And just kinda getting all the bad luck out last front last last season and starting over fresh in really now. This coaching staff can hit the ground running from day. One of the off season instead of week three or four of the off-season as as it was an even longer because the staff was even fully assembled until I think in well into February. Worry so you know I think a lot of people wanna see that and Have these guys get a fair shake now especially since you saw. Marked improvement went from most areas of the team and John. You hinted at it the part of the full offseason slate for the team. And what's going to really be a major part of their off-season plan is now. They've been designated to coach coach. The senior bowl the last or at least one of the last times. I think there was one more. I think there's another time in two thousand nine when the bengals did it and they did it yet. She doesn't eleven as well right. Yeah it's right. Yeah so it's two thousand nine hundred thousand eleven and then they did it in two thousand and three and When Lewis's first year and obviously we know what Lewis was able to do that? First draft class. I personally John I think this is huge huge You know someone someone and kind of rightfully so in the comments said. Oh that's where they fell in love with Jew sample last year and Blah Blah Blah maybe but limited scouting department. They rely on the coaches to do extensive scouting because of that the last handful full of times they have gone to the senior bowl. We mentioned the years. Look at the years. Those are three other better years in recent memory and or lead to multiple multiple great years beyond that so to me. This is a big big. Plus Taiwan. Great years like chosen three has eleven. They both took quarterbacks hot right and I don't think Palmer's at the senior bowl even though he was the senior the senior bowl and then I don't know if you'll senior bowl. MVP But he played pretty damn well. game thinking about what. I don't think people realized like you said only two actual scouts in scouting department not not a lot of Susan's in the whole apartment is based around. The coach is doing doing a lot of work. And when asked about Dzhokhar tongue-in-cheek question at his and the press conference. He told him the truth. He hasn't seen Joe Borough played all because they have. I have no time to watch college. Players turn season a game plan for the actual NFL. So when if Joe Bureau for example gets invited to the senior bowl and then accepts the invite. That's GONNA be right after they watch the initial a lot of their initial impressions on borough or Herbert or Jordan. Love or any of these other quarterbacks that they consider in in this game In the senior bowl. It's going to be right after. They initially watched the first film on and obviously bad areas scouts that have obviously got some opinions on their own. They sent due Kobina. Watch borough Justin Herbert during the season. So there's going to be some type of initial on there but like you said for the coaching staff guys. We're going to be down there guys. They have such influence on tracking taking a lot of their first impressions are going to be down there in the senior bowl. Am I said. Juice juice samples player Jermaine Providencia role player Renou Ran Iran. And I believe there's one more from from this draft class but like they they had virtually zero presence at the senior bowl but they still drafted a lot of those guys in still value. The work work in the performance of the put on down there so to have him down there emptive. I wait what looks to be very promising. Senior bowl rosters I I I would agree. It's definitely huge in. It's definitely going to be important in their process. Because with how they structured their overall war room in their all drafting committee. It's GONNA be fresh opinions. Based off of the initial film. They watched yet. I think a lot of because of the smaller scouting department in the coach is being so heavily involved in the scouting process. I think the the hands on you know the pre-draft interviews are are huge for the bengals. That's why they liked Ryan and Finley because that was really the only guy that they really liked and wanted to meet with last year's draft They like the pre-draft interviews to get get to know these kids and that's why coaching the senior bowl for them is so huge. Even though it's only a handful of days where they're they're coaching them up and all that they get a vibe ed from certain players as to how they respond to their coaching how they respond in terms of learning what they're teaching them All of that kind of stuff You know and it's not like kind of the formal interview type of process that happens at the combine or the pre-draft interviews but it's on the field. It's for a handful of days and I think that means a lot to Cincinnati bengals in their staff in terms of who they're going to select i. I don't I would be very surprised if Joe Borough plays in that that game and You know I think as we sit here today I think it's it's him. It's gotta be him as the pick especially after God eight touchdowns. Good Lord But you know I think I just I think this this nomination. It really helps a team that has these smaller front office system. It really helps them and what they're trying to do how they're trying to build their team and You know a lot of times. They'll find a diamond in the rough here so I think it's I think it's pretty big deal absolutely and I just I just remember like you like you said you could definitely tell that some players just resonate with the coaching staffs more. I think it was. It was last year with the raiders. That Jon Gruden love. I think the stadium that drafted in the first round at Mississippi State didn't Those practices the practices are more important than the Games. Just the interaction between the players and the coaching staff with what they wanted them to do. Individual drills the tape players to the side and having to do some extra work they'll stay after practice and you can. You can tell which players are more popular with with gaining one on one treatment with certain scouts Scouts and coaches after practice. So you learn so much. And the fact that the bengals are going to have their full force their We're going to feel a lot more about who they like and what their process. This is looking to steer the nearest Paso. Definitely I applied for my credentials about a week ago amstel Wayne at your back but if I'm going down there we're definitely getting the full coverage the show you that last year to write you. Were down there with two years since a fantastic experience. You're hanging you're hanging with big time job tidbury last year. If I remember right he was he was. Yeah was that the world's worst Hotel Room Mate. Let me tell you how horror stories stories Galore. I'm sure just getting Jo. We love you but You know it's a big it's a big thing for the bengals and it's you know I I saw one one of our Was it Joseph Stop again saying Thaddeus Moss third round. I mean this this is these are the types of games where you you can say you know if boroughs our guide is make sense to add a piece that he is very familiar with if you remember when an when the colts drafted Andrew Luck at the very top of round two. I believe lever was they. The colts draft Koby Cleaner. The his tight end that he loved it. Stanford inflator had a decent career with the colts and it was obviously something that was was a strategy by by Indianapolis to help their their quarterback out as much as possible and I think that could be a strategy angles us and will potentially look at had employing by being coaches of the senior bowl in looking at some of these players that burrows played within seeing if they make they make fit so good stuff by For the bengals ahead and it's it's an exciting thing in. We'll talk about optimism and whatnot going going forward here in just a second. This is the orange black insider bengals podcasts. We've talked about the Bengals coaching staff. We've talked a little Sam Whitish. We've talked about a number of things on this episode. We're going to be here for a little while longer. We will be having a listener questions episode tomorrow afternoon. So join us for that will probably be mid day Pacific so three ish eastern so. Join us for that. Were already fielding questions. We've got a lot of texts lined up and then we've got some emails and other stuff so tweet us do all that stuff up We're we're still taking questions. Also be opposed on since he jungle dot COM to Leave some questions in the comments. Section there so Let us let us know what you're thinking about as we head into the weekend first weekend of the offseason for the bengals and we'll try to answer as many as we can tomorrow which is Friday the third So try and join us with that For that as well again you can get this show wherever you get your audio podcasts. Or on Youtube in Cincy jungle so check us out and try and join us live. If you're able John. I thicke kind of the last area. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA touch on here is just overall optimism. We've Kinda built a little bit to this to this point here We'll try and get to some season awards at the end too but You know I I think kind of where we're going here is. How optimistic should we be for a team? That that's let's tune fourteen We talked about senior bowl now on the horizon for them and they're they're being the coach coaching staff. There one of the coaching staff. The bengals just came off a win against a browns team. Really a game that you kind of felt. They needed to win that game for a lot of reasons. Not just pride but to kind of feel good about next year maybe even security for Zack. Taylor probably not but maybe a little bit there. It's a rivalry game. You don't WanNa lose that at home Tom. You know maybe good swansong for Andy Dalton Now the team is poised to have the number one overall pick top picks in every round around guys are getting healthy. You've got basically an extra first-round pick if you WANNA look at it that way and Joan Williams coming back. I mean cap space a lot of different reasons here for optimism. I already saw comment in our live chats here. You know. It's it's the Mike Brown bengals. There's no reason for optimism. Okay but I don't where. Where are you at optimism? Wise is as the year the off seasons here and there are a lot of kind of chips stacked in the bengals corner quietly. That's that's the whole reason for any warranted optimism because the the pessimism is honor for senator sustainable in it's basically this relationship that bengals fans have the organization is very parasitic. And it's understandable. Why you wouldn't have any expectations for them to do the right thing and I think in years past when they weren't as good when they were finishing third in the north around six to seven wins they should have been pushed to a place where they could have to be forced to improve but they didn't taking necessary steps in and they ended up progressing to the worst team? The league the reason why there is some room Crompton is because like you said they are in the absolute perfect spot. They're in with the first overall. Pick with a quarterback WHO's worth being taken there with a a coaching staff. That again has now time to build something to overhaul for all this roster right now they have about sixty million cap space but they can get the quarterback off the books for Seventy Mil. They can get left. Tackle Glenn off the books for nine Mil. They can get a cornerback like off the books drinker Patrick for about eight male or sending himself for over eight million dollars eighty million dollars in gas space and we know that we don't they're not all e million to protect US sixty million of that but it's install a lot to do a lot more than what they've done in recent past than the fact that they've watched most of their free agency be a colossal failure in an offseason season period where they did make some moves but it just wasn't very smart moves the fact that they now have that in the back of their minds with a lot more cap space it sets them up to do a lot of great things for once a lot of decent things in It's a step for them to take more baby steps in the right direction but again it's it's the fact that we ah wait to see them actually do it. It's the it's the careful optimism knowing that they're in such a great position better than most teams who are not in the playoffs right now. The ability to take this franchise to the next step. They still have to do it though. And I understand why anybody would be very skeptical in believing that that will actually be happening. But they're also in a position where they don't really have any other choice like it's not like they can go in another direction the draft out like they they can't use at least forty million of that cap space to improve the roster. It's not like they're not going to get rid of any according Gwen to Extend some other players were signed. Libya started free agency like these things are almost inevitable with with with the situation now but it's still just a big question mark. Will they actually do it and then you can be. You can be optimistic. Because they're just not noticed in to do anything different. I think that's where this all stems from and I've got a share in screen here there. You see the top. This is courtesy of SPO- track DOT COM You know obviously the financial based site for basically all professional national sports but so this is a little bit of a fluid number. But you're basically seeing the top half of the league in terms of cap space and Cincinnati Tabuchi currently is at number thirteen projected for Twenty twenty with about fifty fifty eight and a half million in projected cap space. That's without Drake Patrick contract potentially coming off the books you mentioned cordy Glenn Seeming. I'd like to see him. Come in and play while next year but but I mean the they kinda benched him a little bit in the last game for Fred Johnson and and you know so who who knows what his future holds. You've got Andy Dalton Sixteen seventeen million dollars potentially coming off the books so I guess you know if you're adding right there that's roughly osh. I Dunno just off the I'd have to go off the top of my head. I think juries cap numbers about ten million Dalton's is about seventeen and then court as is I think another eight to ten million. You're looking at about thirty five million or so potentially in additions right I think thing with dead money. It's it's closer to the low twenty s or The mid twenties. Yea though still it's still substantial. It's not marginal by any means. You know what I mean right right. Yeah accusers accusers Yeah I didn't add in the dead cap for for Patrick in cordy planned but Yeah I mean you're thinking you're you're looking at mid twenties or so also in terms of additional space for that so I guess where I'm going with this John is I pretty sure I know the answer but D- like what. What do you like the best in terms of reasons to be optimistic? Next year the late season uptick in performance from the offensive line in the defense and Dan them getting wins and just playing better throughout most of the second half of the season the high picks the Senior Bowl coaching opportunity or the potential immense amount of cap space that the team will have their disposal. So I've seen a lot of dead cat bounces else's with this team knows that was all obviously with Marvin but for them to finish the season on a relative high notes. Not Anything particularly new. And I understand that. It's more than just winning the last game it's about showing actual improvement in the end. Both sides of the ball specifically with the defense getting out from under the seller in some those players actually playing well. I think the reason problem there is that you're going to have most this coaching staff. And it's not like 'cause last season when they want from Tara. Las Marvin Lewis. There was an improvement but then all that kind of went away. When Marvin Lewis has fired so the fact that I have in a room of coming back you would like to see some of that progress from the defense shove this fear but I still think that even with that aside I still think it's just they're in a position to drive a franchise quarterback and they're in a position to actually use some cap space in Almost forced to use this cap space because they have to have some type of minimum spending requirements with the cab gone near two hundred million for the twenty twenty season. So I still. The thing is just the the situation that they brought in and I understand that you know smell momentum to a certain extent can be believed to be real. But it's just that I've seen them when in the final two games for the season like by twenty seven the two thousand seventeen season. They won the last two games and not all the playoffs. It was whatever the resurgence of title boards career is still finished. Six next year. Didn't like it it. It didn't do a ton I think it's still you still have to harvest or harnessed that late-season momentum awesome put into actual improvements. So that doesn't really do much for me. But do like the fact that they're gonNA turn over this roster to the best of their ability in for the most part. It's GONNA a lot of those F. players that left over from the previous regime and potentially get maybe a draft pick or two in the forest traits to really help rebuild this roster. I think we're we're GONNA see a much different overall roster in terms of just from the bottom up maybe not in terms of most of the starting lineup but most libertation in-depth guys. We're seeing a lot of turnover there Erin again. You'RE GONNA have the most important piece of of your team being brought him with the first overall. Pick if there's anything that can instill some type of optimism. I think it has to be starting their yea I- predictably that's where I thought you would go and that's probably where I'm going to go as well as the draft in that you can lump in the senior bowl with with the high picks fix for in that process. Just that's what their bread and butter is and they sucked enough to get those high picks and I guess you because they deserve those Ibex because they did not play well particularly through the first part of the season but It was a hard season to bear through do And you know I think a lot of people would call it a trademark Mike Brown type of bengals season. But you know I think the draft raft with the with the first overall pick And then you've got the high picks in the in the other rounds. I think that set up real nicely you then you can supplement that with the space. I don't think there's going to be the spending spree that we saw in Cleveland. If we know anything but bengals. That's just not going to happen but I think Arab there could be some interesting player trades That could either net them more picks or player for player trades. Something like that So that could could take up some of the the cap space. You could see more free agents coming back Coming to Cincinnati in terms of outside guys not the absolute absolutely plus tier guys. But maybe more see and be teared. Is maybe more guys that are going to be solid starters. The John Miller's and above more of if those guys as opposed to your B W webs and guys that are way you know carry win and and guys like that signed for near the Vet Minimum You you get guys that you know you can bring back. You also have to consider that you know John You talked about the roster may showing a lot of turnover. That's true there could be but I think dark has denard played pretty well this year. That's a guy you may WanNa think about bringing back especially if you're thinking about shipping away. Drake Patrick even though draze more boundary guy burqas is more of a slide guy. You know you've got the decision on. Aj Green to make. You've got a decision to make on tyler effort. Who Said you you know? He he said playing games. You played all sixteen games and You know started to come come alive towards the end of the year much like the rest of the team assuming that there could be some mainstay. You've got a decision on Joe Mixing you've got a decision on John. Rossi figure these things out so IF THEY WANNA sought re signed nine a lot of those guys that's GonNa play into that cap space decision but You know I think. Hopefully they'll make some some a little bit of moves on from me outside in terms of of free agency with that cap space and then to me I. It's it's about the draft. It's really really is about the draft this year with the bengals are able to do So so that's that's if nothing else if nothing else like like I said. It's the perfect opportunity for them to do something. And if if they don't at least partially take advantage of it we can just forget about them doing anything else. You know what I mean. It's like this is like a litmus test for their overall competency competency like they're in the perfect situation to actually do something to improve in the offseason and if they don't even do that in the slightest sense then we can forget about doing anything in the future. Yes yes yup and I think You know we've talked about it on a couple of the past episodes as well as a seeing some comments tonight. You know this team Set a record in terms of lowest attendants This the people were not going to the games that they were the lowest Paul Brown Stadium Idiom this entire year I think I think management ownership sees I think they they understand that and I don't think the Joe Borough is he'll move the needle but he's not going to move it to capacity crowds right away if you know. I think they need to do more than that. And Fans that these bengals fans is we. No they're not dumb. I mean we we interact with them every week. They know their football. They know their team and you know if if this team hasn't shown a more her in terms of a desire to win. I think that they're gonNA see that. So but like I said you know big win I guess if you WANNA call it a big win against the browns rounds a good way to end the year. You're feeling pretty good about the last half of the season you've got your high picks you've got the opportunity to coach in the in the senior senior bowl and you've got a plethora of cap space to me it just setting up for a potentially exciting offseason Even even if you WANNA put the Bengals bengals next to next to that statement. I don't know I. I think it's good setting up to be pretty exciting. Do we have time to do awards John John. I'm good if you're all right. Let's do it or we want to split them up. Yeah okay take nap award. Okay Are we okay. Let's go with will go. MVP OFFENSIVE MVP MVP special teams MVP and Defensive Mvp let's do all the MVP's and then maybe coach of the year about that perfect and we can do like other smaller ones. I often supply of the year and all that breakout guy rookie. Whatever yeah we'll do? We'll do those. We'll do those on the next episode. See we're planning on the fly. I love it I love it. We'd be best. I know. That's what happens when you get too busy guys here all right so defensive. MVP who you got. It has to be like I think. In the beginning portion I was I was still writing really high in this is dumb. I wasn't Wasn't performed at his best either but the Like when the defense turnaround was mainly because the lap and the fact that he got ten sacks he got to a top five or ten PF overall greater as rusher the fact that he deservedly should be in the pro bowl in almost. It'd be almost all pro this point. His late season. Resurgence has been remarkable when he's played argument the best he's had all year and it was just such a joy to watch all those pressures keenly to actual tangible corvette kids in stacks so it was amazing to watch him play this year By Gino got the pro bowl nod. But unfortunately you know Dunlap hit his stride relator the kind of midway on and You know some of the proble voting and all that kind of stuff takes place a little earlier than that apt in dunlap's kind of streaky guy in his career. He's been he's been a real streaky eighty nine and somehow he always sniffs that eight eight to twelve eight to eleven sack range. He bats down a ton of passes. he's pretty Dang good against the rhyme. I mean he can play the run because of his length and You know like you said he's just a good all around player. I keep waiting for when when this the beginning of this year. Hit and he wasn't getting the sacks he wasn't having the impact like great. There's father time there's father all the time and I keep waiting for 'em and same thing with Gino. I keep waiting for father time to catch up with those guys and they just keep performing they keep playing and it will hit in. Oh probably hit in the near future. But I've learned just did not count him out. I can't count either. Are Those guys out. I give it to Dunlap. Even though Gino got the pro bowl nod dunlap at towards the end of the year was just ridiculous. Ridiculous in the Backfield All the time and so I got I got to go with you on on defensive. MVP with Carlos Dunlap. What do you got for? We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA go with this. Where do you got for offense MVP? I chose the right answer here. Her and it was like those arguments for others sitting An argument also thousand yards this year. there's an argument. Intimate trae Hopkins. The Laura unheralded off line but I just like I have to give credit to Joe Mixon for what he improved upon. He's he's been a good running back for his first two years and bind shoddy offense align play but his real progression. This year was in the form of making guys snus in avoiding tackles that I think you finished officially fifth in terms of what it tackles approachable focus within fifty two. It was a mark that like I think he he's had more broken organ. Tackles this year in this first two years combined and it was. It wasn't just the the adaptation from the offense line in in the scheme to get him going. It was him progressing into a more effective brunner in progressing to more valuable runner. And like you said it wasn't all the offensive line that helped because most of his yards came on his own that was because as for the for the first time the spirit he was being more looser Brennan he was getting more yards after contact in. You know he's always been the guy to put his shoulder down into run over guys. You saw that in his very last carry very against the browns but the fact that he was breaking so many tackles and becoming so much more valuable of a runner. It made a difference in the run game from the first time in his whole career career. I think this is his most impressive season accounting for all the factors of the fact that Ed the running game was so crappy to begin with the fact that he finished with almost as much as many rushing yards last season. As as he did this year I think he finished like thirty one short of the mark last year and you only had three hundred twenty in the first week so I'm hesitant to give it to running. I'm back because the inherent value is high but he was basically the entire offense is progression should deserve a lot of recognition. For that I was I was tempted to get cute in terms of offense of MVP and team MVP in. I think a case can definitely be made for Tyler. Boyd here But you look at it you look at you look at Jo- makes in here. I mean second and highest career. Total in receptions grant only talking about three years but tied his rookie year total for receiving yards career high in receiving achieving touchdowns second highest total in rushing touchdowns second highest total rushing yardage second second highest yards per attempt. I played all sixteen games. Didn't you could tell he got a little chip at certain in points of the season but kept a good attitude throughout in just produced first and produced oftentimes when the offense line wasn't really helping them out and I'm looking more back to like the rams game I'm looking to the first I Baltimore game and then you know towards the end of the season I think things started to open up the to Cleveland Games. The the New England game. I mean there are some good blocking there towards the end but I mean there are times where there was nothing. There is nothing there and he made it happen so I'll say offensive. Mvp Joe Mixing as well your thoughts on special teams EP. It Stanley Morgan. Like I don't really care about pro voting this much but it's very lazy to you put Clayton federal as as the pro bowl. A candidate for the Bengals when Gaming Stanley Morgan the credit I was more of a fan of Morgan. Coming out. And then Taming Willis Willis got hot in training camp and the preseason but I was I was still holding onto Morgan to produce a receiver in potentials receiver and he ultimately made the practice squad got elevated primarily because I think of his work on special teams I think he established a relationship with Especially toward near during the stems and he definitely earned the trust over the over. The course of the season he was by far the best. The best estimate when Bernie Wilson was leaving the NFL and kick return average Specifically on on punt coverages like just could not be blocked. And you would make unbound Taccola game you would make he would stop stop. Huber Pine inside the ten yard line on. You would just be in the right positions at the right time in every single week when I did the report there. There'll be some type of play. That would make Morgan standout. I think he ended up with a special teams grade of about out ninety from profitable focus which is top ten in the in the league. In general so for undrafted rookies started on the practice. Squad to be your most valuable specialties. That that deserves all the credit the world for sure agreed Say the mortgage and he was exceptional on on punt coverage and whatnot Just you know always seemed to be down there making plays Specialty uses a hard one here. Because I think that there were a number of worthy candidates. Your or your nominee included a even randy bullock. Surprise me times this year You Know He. He had one of his best seasons. Hit a fifty seven yard career high. I in that Cleveland game that secondly I think it was forty seven yards. It was rainy. It was gross out. I am the bengals needed. It and I'm like watch they're gonNa let this thing slip away. He's GonNa miss this thing in Cleveland. Low behold just boom automatic. He hit it but I'm not going with him. I'm going with Kevin Huber. I thought Kevin Huber had one of if not his best season with the bengals. He was a In the League in terms of punts inside the opponent's twenty He was consistently had a high average. I think I think there was a punt return touchdown given up by the bengals special teams unit. If I remember correctly but I could be wrong about that. I'll have to look that up but you know I just. He seemed to be very consistent. I can remember really count on one hand and fingers leftover amount of shanked upon this year by him and Dan for a team. That was not moving. The ball on offense was struggling on defense early on he was guy those pinning teams teams deep and even at times when they weren't when the ball wasn't down at the five or to buy more than it was inside the twenty was maybe like the sixteen eighteen and it was just a sky high punt that just limited any kind of return yardage ability And I think that once the Bengals in the coaching staff asserted get their feet under them at the second half of the season in terms of experience. And what they're trying to achieve and all of that I think he became an even more important weapon in terms of using the field position You know I just thought it was a very good year from him and you know you don't like to talk about punters out often but to I I think I think some credit is due there. I thought he played very well for the special teams unit. And you can't. You can't have the best congenial without having a tremendous performance puttering was is. It's like it's similar offense. Line play like if you have a bad ponder you notice them if you have a battlefronts offense aligned near about offense lineman you to notice more not with Hebrews is like you don't be the he's GonNa Pundit forty five or fifty five yards. It's going to be going out of bounce inside that's in your line and it just it just consistent. It's just nine days so that you know he probably. He's probably earn this award. If we were to give it out every year has ten years at least you know. The vast majority of the time said this year is really no different for yeah Where do you WANNA go? What do you WANNA ended for tonight in terms of the WanNa go coach or do you want to aggregate some other suggestions Russians in the live chat? But if you've got one you want to go coach I guess okay so I want I just want to go Simmons I'd just think for just dealing with being the the head got like the highest standing Coach remaining from Marvin Lewis to work with brand new coordinators store brand new assistance and to work with is one of the youngest rosters in the team. Most of those young guys their only opportunity to plan is going to be on special teams. And you know to go from potentially being the head coach taking taking over. Marvin's it just being the same social coordinator for the past twenty years now the new head coach and to have again the best unit in the NFL in terms of way. Devi away to have really no shortcoming in any type of coverage return unit to have brandon. Wilson have his best year to have Stanley. Morgan be your best bet. Steamer Staff Cabinet Uber. No improved the way he did and like you said every play better than I guess was expected for him. I I just think all those circumstances he did by far the best job Dobbin. If there's anybody on the staff that is worthy of some type of promotion or sent to raise throughout the league's Yeah hard to disagree with you there. You know I think some cases could be made for for some other Some other coaches you know I kinda thought. Maybe maybe maybe the defensive line coach but the Bengals were still twenty sixth in terms of sacks and they were one of the worst stopping the run and stuff so I ate I guess I was more romanticizing the past few weeks where the pass rush came to live quite a bit but Yeah I mean I. It's hard you know. Like I said bullock played. Well this year kicked pretty well Huber kicked a pundit. Well you talked about Stanley. Only Morgan. The returners they basically had two guys that could have been pro bowl candidates if they were healthy for the entire season in terms of kickoff fraternities. I was not overly enamored with outs Erickson. As a return of this year he didn't really pop the big plays. But if that's your biggest issue a rotational punt return turn guy that was really forced into more action because of injuries to these other guys then you know you're kinda grasping at straws. I think so I will say yes asked Erin Simmons Coach of the year for the Cincinnati. Bengals We've got others to get to will will do will do them on subsequent shows. We've got like play the year we'll do game of the year. We'll do Gosh why offensive Lineman or Lineman of the year I guess. What would you all kinds of stuff? We'll get we'll get fund will get crazy with this. I wanted to start it off and talk about some season awards. At least some of the biggies get those out of the way and We'll move on from there will also be doing are twenty twenty prospect. Watch coming up on the next show. We've got We've got some some people in mind. We took the week off this week but but hopefully you saw them on the jungle. Joe Borough That prospect watch post went up as well as just in Herbert. I don't think the two one and went up yet but that should be coming up So check those out will be getting more of those we've got more coming down the pipe The other thing I wanted did you just bring up and I don't want to over promise and under deliver but will be probably doing some pretty special things in terms of guests and stuff in future feature shows As you may have noticed do the prospect watch. We've brought in some others from espionage networks and whatnot to help us preview those we had Mike Colebrook the listener in the in the live facebook chat. He offered to connect us with four bengals linebacker Reggie Williams And hand apparently during this show he said Reggie Williams said he would love to come on the show. So we're going to coordinate that and bring him on Interesting time to talk to him. Given Sandwiches Bash passing you know obviously played under why so it will be hopefully coordinating that pretty soon. I've been in talks with off Getting a particular bengals player who was on a recent. NFL One hundred list to come back on the show So that is probably the only guy who will be on that list We've got some of those people Hopefully coming down the pike along with others this time last year round super bowl we were approached to bring on guys like tyler boy and others on the program so hopefully we'll get those opportunities as well and like John said he will most likely be at the senior bowl getting us. Some some coverage. There nudge nudge. John So we're we're excited to bring some some interesting stuff and not just from this show. Hopefully you've been enjoying chalk. Talk that Mimic. Hopefully you've been joint enjoying in orange. Is the new black the podcast from Zim who day in as Bogie. We've been bringing a lot of different stuff. That is on our audio channel. Not as early on her Youtube Channel but check out all that stuff they've been bringing you some great content to works to bring you some some new stuff and just wanted to throw that out there as we close the show John. It's it's the end of it's been the end of the year the end of the season. We we made it. It was going to win over here now and like the theme of the show has been. We're looking at brighter Ryder futures. We're looking at greener pastures. This is all about. Yeah nowhere really to go but up The it'd be very very hard to believe that this team will be as is bad or worse than they ended up being this year For variety factors when we discuss a lot of those factors. But just general lock in health. And You you know the coaching staff being around throughout the month of January so You know you would think that that that will help them immensely. Really going forward so Thanks everybody for tuning in. If you're if you're joins US live. Thanks for tuning in after the fact. Appreciate your input as always John and and join us for listener questions on Friday afternoon. Otherwise we'll see you next week for our weekly show. Thanks everybody yeah.