20 Episode results for "University Of Westminster"

Creative Competency: Why to Make It Everyones Priority for Your Business with Natalie Nixon

The Dave Pamah Show

24:55 min | 7 months ago

Creative Competency: Why to Make It Everyones Priority for Your Business with Natalie Nixon

"Welcome to the Dave Thomas show the podcast fives restores and Awakens your innermost capability. You have the training and the talent to succeed but do you have the guts to fail I? Love what I do we love what you do. You want to be the best at it today is about the power you you will change to. Find Your path to success the journey of those who have succeeded and now your host Dave pomme. Welcome back to the Thomas Show today I'll have the president of. thinking. A consulting firm that emboldens organizations to apply creativity for transformative business results. She's also a global speaker and regular contributor to ink on creativity and the future of work, and she's also the editor of strategic design thinking innovations in products services. Experiences and beyond. She hosts a PhD in design management from the University of Westminster in London and the BA in anthropology and African studies from Bethel college and lives in Hung Town Philadelphia. New Book. Is the creativity lead unleash unleash. Curiosity improvise, ation, and intuition at work. Nestle Nestle Nixon. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much Dave, it's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me as a pleasure having you here as well and it's been so long since we've been trying to organize this meeting I think maybe we moved it forward because I've got sick or something hermano. Yes. Yes. Everything happens in the time that it should. Yeah. Whatever paint good. It wasn't got tested because we put a different kind but just as much she can you know you have to be careful still anyway you really. Yes we do. How are you? I'm doing well, it's starting to become fall here in the United States right? So Days getting shorter but I'm doing well. Into New York and Miami and New Jersey S of places of independent tune this never in a west. coast. A will next time I will. But I'll be a well now donna what's going on the travel? Will you not that really but it's uncertain times isn't it? But with the work you're doing obviously even having a creative mind helps hope open your mind off a bit. And we're going to hear more about the while. Cute. You have been doing Tell us more about your book I you've got a new book cal. Yeah. The book is as you've already mentioned, the creativity leap at the main focus of the book is to empower people to really exercise creativity as a critical competency for now what we're calling the fourth industrial revolution as well as for the future of work I don't do creativity as a freely woo add on I. Really understand it as a critical competency and to be human is to be hard wired to be creative. WHOA okay. So what is it going to get at? The question I'm GonNa. Make you want me either. But yeah, you're doing some coaching as well on the coming up festival. Yes. Yes. I the course this called your creativity leap and really a companion piece to the book and So many people in the past two years have started to hire me to be a coach. This is now an opportunity in a group coaching context at a much or. FEE repeatable to learn how to apply creativity to get unstuck Ango from an idea to an action really leaves a course with an actionable playbook that they can use for years to come. Well. So when you say a play Bocom, you mean having. Something written down for themselves a plan that kind of thing. Exactly an actual plan goals dreams with deadlines and so I take them through what I call my leak. which is to help them I leverage everything they've done than to envision a more officious future than act and prioritize on one thing, and then finally prototype because we have to get more courageous with not letting perfection be the enemy of good but trying and experimental mode out our ideas in small bits, and then finally we before we know we've actually started to get some traction. Wow Yeah. Well, we're GONNA come onto the core layer and get people to contact you. Once they him or about that. But I found questions. Wise creativity. Of ISO asset for navigating complexity and why do business leaders routinely dismiss it. Well creativity is something that I define as tongling between wonder and rigor to solve problems. One of the reasons why business leaders routinely don't embrace it, they may not think of themselves as a creative type put air quotes around that is because we don't really understand creativity. We have silos in ghettoized it in the arts, which isn't fair to artists. And it's not beneficial to our society at large. So to be an incredible engineer scientists teacher, Entrepreneur, plummer firefighter, you have to be incredibly creative. In other words you have to be able to toggle between wonder and rigor to solve problems in wonder is about audacity asking Biglou sky what if questions causing all? Rigor. is about time on task disipline cultivation insisted practice in creativity requires both wonder and rigor. Right courtesy and the free art. Freeze of creativity. The free is she say of creativity and what if x effective tactic for how each? Sure. So I realized that I could not stop it only. Saying, that creativity is about toddling which we wonder and rigor to solve problems and my consulting work with companies and with Michael Shoe individuals, I developed this framework called. The three is which is to help you exercise in practice creativity and the three is our inquiry. Improvisation an intuition. So the inquiry is about curiosity and. Realizing that asking questions is a way of thinking. Improvisation is not about Be Able to do an amazing jazz celo stage but improvisations being adaptive anticipating what's next actively listing listening as about the bill saying yeah. But we try that ten years ago. It's about, yes tell me more and building on another idea and finally intuition is a type of pattern recognition. It is this internal antenna that we are all equipped with an intuition is really a tool for decision making. Type of Mossel or sonar the more we used it the stronger it gets the more week nor it's the weaker in Siberia gets. Riot say well I'M SON IN A. In a I'm sure it must have come across a few though is my work as a firefighter and like you say with creative minds and on the. The free is So Let's look at the power of lateral thinking and the payoff of employers time and space for daydream and what you what you say about that. Well. Lateral thinking and daydreaming or two different things. So lateral thinking is something that I really embraced in my work in design thinking and designing is a problem solving process. It's a problem solving process that fifty percent of it is qualitative research and fifty percent of it is applying design principles like visualizing data and prototype room. So lateral thinking is when we look to sectors and industries completely different from ours, they could be adjacent to our industry or they can be really far out and we tried to understand a ways they addressed similar challenges and figure out what can we start to incorporate into our own work. So for example, there is a famous essay in the New Yorker magazine some years ago about what hospitals could learn from the cheesecake factory restaurant, right? In the point was that an in a hospital emergency room, it often feels very chaotic. It hasn't the left hand knows what the right hand is doing. Similarly look in the kitchen, the back kitchen of a cheesecake factory restaurant it looks similarly chaotic however. The cheesecake factory restaurant is able to have consistency and service delivery every single day at virtually every property around the world, and so the point of the article was what if house care look more to the restaurant food and beverage and? Industry to see what they could start to implement integrate into its own service delivery. So that's what lateral thinking is daydreaming. A- something that I really talk about as a way to help people integrate wonder into into their their their days of work. So daydreaming is very important because it actually helps us to pause it helps us to. Stop. Step away from deep. Linear focus type of thing that the frontal lobe of our brain are exercising and it rewires the neural synapses of our brain. So I actually take time daydream breaks during the day two minutes long sentenced to five minutes long just staring at the clouds watching an ant crawl but. But I think daydream is very similar salon hypnosis and I wouldn't say meditation on maybe believe in meditation and mindfulness and stuff because of some of the newer sciences coming out but with daydream more closely with hypnosis that Kana Feeding, I dunno, would you say that not really I've never gone through HYPNOSIS I. Sure but I do think it's a way into meditation. Okay. All right. Excellent. What does the future of work depend on creativity and and how would you link this uniquely human capacity with? A. Well, artificial intelligence will always require a human being to ask better questions. So since you know that I now depend heavily on the rule inquiry curiosity and building an exercising creativity creativity is inextricably linked to feature work 'em ubiquity of technology. the way that we as humans are going to stand out and be distinctive is to figure out ways that technology can amplify what it needs to be uniquely human instead of. Only kind of. Of becoming a cog in the wheel of technology technology of the days, a tool, and it still requires people and the human touch to really make better and more meaningful. And so in the future of work where the train has left the station, we have ai robotics, VR. Work, all sorts of technology, the permeate our daily lives. This is the opportunity now to really exercise what it means to be human, which is creativity. See The difference, between innovation and. Originality. How would how would? How would you apply creativity to leverage in archetypes and repurposing great ideas? That didn't come out. That question. Okay. How would you? How would you apply creativity to? Probably not ready to Wrightson to. Well I mean if the question is more out the links between creativity innovation. Really. View creativity as the engine for innovation and. Innovation is something that I defined as invention converted into value. So when we invent something. Until it really gives financial value social value, cultural value. It's fine but it's not innovation and the role of creativity is that it converts that invention into that scalable valuable. Object experience or service that we can then call animation. For example, I was at the post at the post office quite a bit this summer mailing. Lots of copies of my new book, the creativity leap anti various supporters. I was at one post office and they had a little container in the United we call them cue tips the bran. Swabs in a little container and I asked the postal worker wire, their cue tips, air swabs right by the the credit card wiper. They said Oh that's because it's Cohen is going on and people don't want it touch the key pads they can use A. And they use the to press the key pat and okay. That's really cool invention right? That's not an innovation until we figure out how to converted into financial cultural and social value and beliefs scale it. Right. Okay. Well. Practices to make craze creativity accessible to work as a all levels. Okay tell me more about practices to make creativity accessible to work all level and to increase your own creativity quoted for Q as You call it. So one is going back to my former common about the value daydreaming right now during Kovin. We really have to get better at redesigning relationship with time. Stepping away from work it's the only one who actually recharge. So one of the ways that can happen is by designing new and different rituals and you could think of time daydreams throughout your day even if it's one time daydream as your own ritual that helps you to. Pause in Crete breaks another thing that we can do is become a clumsy student of something. So when we are clumsy students, we naturally exercise three is right. We become more curious have to become much more improvisational we have to rely on our intuition. So right now for example, I'm a comedy student of the Tango and fire HELPS TO DELIVER How good? For years. It really helps me to his humor about myself to be Mercurius Asiatic Russians, etc. Yeah. Well, that's great. That's great stuff. Well. I just want to just get you to. Give some knowledge to one about the work you're doing with these these few few questions here. Now, already WANNA find out about. Yourself. You'll company figure of I thinking. And of course as a mentioned that beginning you went to. To college she went to one in the in the states studying the an anthropology at vessel collision USA went to university named lived in London. So I don't even know if we might have met because I studied at University of London but Beck studied politics and society which oversees A. Vest. Topic at a moment in America what will over world really force going to Wait. When did he go to? University Westminster. I I earned my PhD at the University of Westminster. In London and I was there from two thousand, six to twenty ten by wasn't actually living in London because the way the doctoral system is set up on. To make. Trips there about three trips a year. So in enabled me to work time while I was earning my doctorate so you still wouldn't have space, but it doesn't you traveled to London to see supervisor and stuff like that correct gray area. I sound what? Go Up on but Malaysia was dissertation in worse that bump. It was narrow on the college was named Aswa can Scott working at Saint Thomas all so Yeah. Yeah. London's a great place in a just say. Philadelphia's always hear about Philadelphia and its place us in my bucket list to say, yeah, a lot to visit. Farmer always at from from New York. And Ninety minute drive. Oh. Right it's right between New York, city and Washington DC The nation's capital on up into New York. So many times. So I apologize for not making a little trip just to. Get the hell will. Show next I'm going there. But some. Yes. PhD In. Design Management. which is a lot different to the. Proletarian Africanness studies but of course, people do different things that they really winning in the academic journey. How. Did it go from jump from anthropology to to go to design management before? Working for you company figure of thinking. Yeah. So have a very loopy background and I've always followed my heart I. I really thrive in interdisciplinary fields. I've never been. particularly. Happy in a very kind of silo narrow way of working and so anthropology quits me with the skill set to do qualitative research to ask questions very differently and to have what I call the worms idea view society I actually earned a master's degree as well from Thomas Jefferson University in global textile marketing because I started hat design business might twenties really got the bug for business and fashion. and. That degree actually took me to study in Israel in Germany and then I was I worked in the fashion industry in global sourcing and worked for a division of the limited brands. And lived in Washington, Sri Lanka and Portugal and traveled throughout Asia sourcing underwear for Victoria's secret brand. I became a professor. I was professor for Sixteen Years last year's. We're in the states or traffic at. States in the United States at Philadelphia University okay. And you still The now is professor. I resigned academia twenty seventeen. I I'm the president of figuring thinking side and must creativity strategists old time right. So tell me more about Figura by what they do and what you do they always at your own company. Yes of figure eight thinking LLC is my company is Creativity Strategy Boutique firm and we help in advise leaders on how to apply creativity and foresight so that they can achieve transformative business results. There is a direct solid bolt line between creativity and business results. There's not a fuzzy dotted line and so I've worked with companies like comcast and blue. mergen Bainer Media Modest Saul. Which is a division of cure a lawsuit. Yeah enlarge nonprofits as well and and really helping them to innovate their business models to reexamine a business that they think they're end versus the business they should be in. Yeah. Wow well. We're going to just point paper to your book and then your course which is coming up the. It's really. Open for discovery calls registration now isn't it? Yes right. So my book the creativity leak unleash curiosity and proposition tuition is something that everyone can find out more about download a free chapter actually on my website figure eight thinking. The number eight and you can also learn more about my new course. The course is a group coaching class is starts October the first and it is an intimate setting for you to learn the process to get unstuck and going from an idea to action in sixty days. Well, that's. Certainly Two months of. Intense training or you kind of have some time to Make that transformation. It's to really get you start it right. overthink things and not let perfection be the enemy of, but to start in small incremental steps and stages yeah yeah. So. How do people find this calls? Where did it go rhino? Everyone should should please go to figure eights thinking dot com that's. G. R. E. The number eight. Thinking Dot Com, and you'll see a link to the course. You'll see a link to the book immediately and love to hear from you. Wow Great Aloe. So anyone listening and we'll also put the link to the link to that website on the show notes. So just scroll down if you didn't get that correctly, you can scroll down and just click on a link and You straight to the website which will, Oh, you'll funding there. While matlock. Thanks for coming on the show and sharing some of this A. Great Knowledge, which Chelsea I need to really look into myself because I'm sure has some creativity which talking to you. Now show had some of this. In me, I'll probably need to discover more of it as well. So maybe wanting to you off there is. To contain the cells but we'll join join the chorus I really appreciate you having me on as your guests and thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Now you to you. Welcome. Things going well in terms of what's gone on in the states with the current abortion of these protests as well. which of sleep. Well, for my mom, I'm a politics graduate Senate's my degrees. For me I think. Know these posts Obviously. It's it's. Got An American always selflessly. Something that Needs to go for is Naggus. Yes. Okay well, Lee thanks very much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Okay what does? So for this episode, thanks listening and remember we want to support what we do in share subscribe and review overnight shoes. Or read this podcast dot com for slash rate and follow the simple instructions what. I. So for now but I'll see you on the next episode all day palm show suits follow us on facebook twitter and instagram's.

London University of Westminster New York United States Creativity Strategy Boutique professor president PhD Nestle Dave Thomas Dave pomme Dave editor Nestle Nixon New Jersey University of London the cheesecake factory Hung Town Philadelphia Kovin HYPNOSIS
'1984' In 2019: Did George Orwell's Classic Get It Right?

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

48:33 min | 2 years ago

'1984' In 2019: Did George Orwell's Classic Get It Right?

"This message comes from on points sponsor indeed. If you're hiring with indeed, you can post a job in minutes. Set up screener questions, then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard. Get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast. From NPR and WB. You are Boston, I make the talker bardy and this is on point. Big brother two, plus two equals five the memory hole. Truth isn't truth. Sound familiar? Well, there from George Orwell's dark, masterpiece, nineteen Eighty-four. Okay. Not all of those phrases from nineteen Eighty-four that last one truth isn't truth. Will that's from the president's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani? So it's real and it's recent which shows you the timelessness and predictive power of Orwell's, novel published seventy years ago this Saturday, nineteen Eighty-four serves as a warning against absolute power of all kinds against the manipulation of language against the loss of independent thought published in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine critics thought the book might lose its relevance after the fall of communism. But here we are seventy years later with global Thawra -tarian ISM on the rise, and fake news. And even the manipulation of that term itself, all tearing at the fabric of democracy. So this hour on point lessons from nineteen Eighty-four for two thousand nineteen and you can join us. When did you first read nineteen Eighty-four have you reread it recently, what resonates about this book for you? What are the sources of double think today? And what if big brother isn't government, but technology that we are welcoming into our lives. Join us anytime at some point radio dot org or Twitter and Facebook where it on point radio. Joining us today from London is Jean Seaton director of the Orwell foundation, which promotes George Orwell's work and awards, the Orwell prize for political writing, she's also the official historian of the BBC and a professor of media history at the university of Westminster Jean Seton, welcome to on point, high also nice to be, it's a pleasure to have you also with us from Bloomington, Indiana is Michael Sheldon English professor at Indiana state university, and author of the book or well, the authorized biography, Michael Sheldon. Welcome to you as well. Good to be with you. So let me just start briefly an. Ask both of you the same question. But Gina lychee answer. I how relevant is nineteen Eighty-four today, almost exactly seventy years after its publication. Rather weirdly, it feels very relevant in different places. I think I think it's never actually not been relevant was used to be relevant in North Korea and authoritarian places. I remember going to Burma by eight years ago and it felt relevant before. But now, feels rather shockingly in the law, mainly relevant much closer to home. So we used to see it to something that was a warning to us, comfortable people in social democracies and now it feels a little bit more alarming than that, which is why I think seventy people have turned to reading it again. And Michael Sheldon. How would you answer that? He's got more relevant. It's amazing how a man who lived and wrote his book in the nineteen thirties and forties. Wouldn't see so far ahead into our digital future. I think that's the brilliance of what's been enduring is the notion that we've shifted from the old fashioned thing where if you want to play music, you, you watch a record turn on a turntable to. Now you just have a file, and an in a digital world like that. You find it much easier to do what Orwell talks about nineteen Eighty-four slip things down the memory hole. Airbrush things. Disappear hold histories and facts. And to distort them in ways that are lot easier to do in a digital world than they were in the old analog world. So we're living in George Orwell's world now I'm afraid yeah. We know I want to be mindful that perhaps, not everyone listening is an obsessive reader of George Orwell the way, we might be so, so gene, could you. Just briefly. Give us a little synopsis of the story that Orwell tells in, in one thousand nine hundred four. It's projected into a future in which a on a snippy slightly authoritarian dictatorship is take Nova, which survives by always fighting the world is divided into three blocks. And you're always fighting one of them, but that slips around you might coalition so. The sort of international scale it the world is divided into these blocks, new survive, locally nationally by hating somebody else. And Secondly, there's a regime a regime whose intent is to completely reduce English to very few numbers of words, so that, when you do that you Radic eight thoughts and feelings, you make it impossible for people to think new thoughts and Thirdly. It's the regime, which is based on. Poly based on the where it comes from we get around but is based on a complete vigilance over every detail of people's lives. And their feelings doesn't an attempt to Radic eight proper loving fulfilling sexual relationships, so that feels very Morton, and replace them by something much more old. On the stories of Winston Winston Smith. The lost loss man in Europe who sought of a well, but not quite John can do this better than me. And a he he he he he's a rebellion against all of this. He has with he becomes more rebellious cost the book and he believes that s-. Big brother, or at least an agent of being rather bit. Like a spy thriller, actually, is, in fact, overturn -able on the Yukon create a private space. So he goes off on the love of her. And in fact, he is always being marched and he's discovered and his girlfriend discovered base tortured. And he is made we think that we might come to finally onto torture give up. His own belief in, in reality. So the final torture is dusty. Plus two equal four does it equal five and say the, the final thing to go is apparently his own internal state. So it sounds pretty gloomy but the raw ramonic- I mean, there are some hopeful bits, we might get onto that. It's copped the end with something that makes you think that perhaps that future doesn't happen. I if that we will get to that because I actually. But I mean I just have to say it very short very intense book. For two reasons on Inoccent completely on put down a ball. I mean you it's the book Q consuming ago. Right. Well, so if I may an and I just wanted to the three of us we we've, we've picked individual readings or excerpts from nineteen Eighty-four to, to share with each other and listeners this hour. And if I may, I'd like to just offer mine, which comes right at the top of the book right at the very beginning of nineteen Eighty-four, because gene is you're saying one of the reasons why it's unpaid down a bowl is not just a story that or will tells, but the manner in which he tells it if she just grabs you right from the top, and the book opens, of course with that the very famous line, it was a bright, cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen. Right. And then or we'll goes on to write the hallway smelt of boiled, cabbage, and old rag Mads at one end of it a colored poster too large for indoor display had been tacked to the wall. It depicted. Simply an enormous face more than a meter wide, the face of a man about forty five with a heavy black moustache and ruggedly. Handsome features Winston made for the stairs. It was no use trying to lift even at the best of times it was seldom working and at present the electric current was cut off during daylight hours. It was part of the economy drive in preparation for hate week. The flat was seven flights up, and Winston who was thirty nine and had vericose ulcer above his right. Ankle went slowly resting several times on the way on each landing opposite, the lift shaft the poster with the enormous face gazed from the wall. It was one of those pictures, which are so contrived that the is follow you, when you move big brother is watching you the caption beneath it ran Michael Zeldin, even all these years later, I, I re read nineteen Eighty-four and high school. The opening still gives me. Chills to this day. How did how did our we'll do that? It probably should give you chills. It's the notion that you're always being watched. I like to say to my students that if I follow them around all day, taking notes of what they were doing. Eventually someone would call the police on me, but I say your cell phones do that. Now every day they, they track everything you're doing. So we've, we've let ourselves slip into that very world that or will describe of a place where all surveillance is possible and surveillance from many different levels. And I think that should be shocking to people it's what Orwell saw in our future, Jean Seaton. Do you have a response to that? And I think I think that's true. I think we've one of the interesting things is that in a well, big brother is a social face. We might come to that. And sort of may or may not exist. We don't really know. But he's a sort of person. But we've now one of the themes of the novel is about complicity about the way in which people agree to their own delusion delusion Disney, they willingly give up on that sense that we, you know, just to there's nothing you can buy that somebody doesn't know something about you. There is no pleasure. You can take that doesn't involve the internet or where you are. So we have absolutely being complicit in something that may be used for purposes and clearly is in some societies, ready actually, being used for purposes that we wouldn't have agreed to we wouldn't have agreed to. Of that stuff, even being sold. If we'd have known if we've understood but it looked convenience. So I think the, the easy complicity of us in the situation, Michael just described feels very important. Well, we are talking about the seventieth anniversary of George Orwell's dystopia masterpiece nineteen Eighty-four, and what lessons the novel has for us in two thousand nineteen we want to hear from you. Have you recently reread nineteen Eighty-four, does it seem to hit a little too close to home, and if so why then we'll head into a quick break with David Bowie, single one thousand nine hundred four from his nineteen seventy four album diamond dogs. This is on point. This podcast and following message are sponsored by xfinity. Some things are hard to control like over caffeinated co workers other things are easy to control. Like you're in home wifi with xfinity, X fi, set WI fi curfew change your password, and create user profiles all with the x fi app. Another reason why xfinity is simple easy. Awesome go online. Call one eight hundred xfinity or visit a store to learn more restrictions apply. Mitch McConnell has become a champion for conservatives. But back in the day, he wants got support from groups like labor unions, market, down is one of the worst things have done thought about over the years. Think about face Mitch McConnell, new series from imbedded, subscribe, now, this is on point. Meghna chucker Bharti. We're talking this hour about the fact that on June eighth. Nineteen forty nine George Orwell's masterpiece nineteen Eighty-four was first published. So it is approaching it seventieth anniversary. And what lessons do we have today into thousand nine to draw from nineteen eighty four? And of course, one of the central ideas in Orwell's nineteen Eighty-four is idea of language and thought and how to control both through an element called Newspeak, that or will introduces in his novel. So this is a scene from a nineteen fifty four BBC adaptation of the novel and Winston Smith played by Peter Cushing asks, a fellow party member Sime, played by Donald pleasure. Cents about his work, creating the language of Newspeak. We'll have a busy time. It becomes compulsory learning all the new joint departments and Benji. We're not inventing would destroy schools thousand gently day and notable, beautiful simplicity, one example, that good. You have that what need for the would bad on boarding, just well, then instead of a string of extra, like excellent spended. You have plus good a stronger still. Plus, a new speak, the whole notion of goodness and battling will be covered by six words in reality by only one lived from nineteen fifty four adept patient of Orwell's, nineteen Eighty-four I'm joined today by Jean Seaton director of the Orwell foundation. She's with us from London, and Michael Sheldon is with us. He's an English professor at Indiana state university and author of Orwell the authorized biography and Jean-Michel really want to spend some time, exploring this aspect of the book with you because we will talk more about surveillance in thwart -tarian, ISM. But to me, it seems as if one of the central ideas that Orwell is trying to put forward and one of the reasons why this novel will never lose its relevance, regardless of what our political moment is because he's talking about how our abilities individuals or as Sayed's to, to think freely, to think openly to engage, truthfully with the world can be controlled manipulated through the control of language, so, so Michael Sheldon. This is something that or will cared about deeply for his entire life. But what was it about his experience at led him to focus so so, so strongly on this idea of thought and language? Well think about it. The Oxford English dictionary has roughly speaking half a million words, the object of Newspeak, is to reduce it in or well gives this figure to around nine hundred words. So you're talking about taking an language of enormous richness and variety and, and reducing it to the point where you can barely say, anything you can't really put together a very coherent thought. And he ran into that sort of thing, not only in his writing, but also working at the BBC, the British Broadcasting Corporation for two years during the war, where many words were censored many words were not allowed because of wartime censorship. In fact, some of his broadcasts were done sitting in front of a kill switch. And which at any moment, he could be shut off because he was saying something. Forbidden. It's ironic today that the entrance to the BBC has a statue of Orwell and quote, unquote, above it, carved into the stone. If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear, right? Gene, gene, Seton is that a message that people still want to hear these days? I think I mean, I think his concern with the emaciation the impoverishment of language came from a longer experience than just at the BBC. It came from particularly observing, what happened round reporting of the Spanish civil war when he found that he understood he'd TV to fight against fascist. And he found himself fighting right tiny group of in a very split lift. But he found that the newspaper reports from people who he had believed to be more comradely him on left told lies. And he observed Russian Russian control of, of communism and people like all the customer, his friends also told very strong story. So I think that the notion of the Macy's of languages came from observing the way in which. Fascism and communism destroyed the capacity to think didn't want independent thinking. I mean, I'm I'm obviously as BBC historian, I often three hundred them, but I think that, that was, I didn't think that was the main experience in D Reynoso. When he left the BBC saying, maybe stopped me saying what I think, and it was a, a, a War, I think, BBC such ship was one little bit. I think bureaucracy was one little bit. But I think his real sense of language was that the that idea lobes base from the right in the left. People got a vision. Try and make reality fit that vision to do, so they have to squirrel with words. Right. So, so this, this is such an interesting important point, Michael shuttle, Sheldon. Let me turn back to you, his as Jean said Orwell's concern was that impair. Phrasing, what you just said here, gene, but ideolog from both the right and the left. In order to advance their vision, squirrel with those words, so we can focus on, on, on how that plays out in political life. But I'm wondering if we're seeing it today. Also in, in other realms I'm thinking, what would Orwell think about occasionally online, mobs might go after some writers of young adult novels and say, you know, you've written you've written something in that novel, that we object to so self-censor it. I mean is that markedly different than the kind of language control that Orwell was concerned with? No. It's still a form of censorship and quite right, that the Spanish of a war gave him a real taste of that he got it almost everywhere he went because he was so committed to telling what he saw as the objective truth. And he got tired of being lied to in so many different places in his life and in so many different experiences. So when he saw other people try to suppress the truth when. He saw others try to censor anyone. He formulated that notion that you don't really have freedom of speech, unless you can tell people what they don't want to hear it still a Revolutionary Command. Because try starting that today with your boss or anyone else. A lot of a lot of people don't wanna hear certain things. Well, I think I mean if you look to freedom is slave this these great slogans in the boat. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength, or as he's that, that, that, that sense, that's you can just you can just impose on things kind of willed version of reality. I think that's one of his big battles. And he's very he's very dedicated to trying to understand reality. Right. Really? Well, so Michael Sheldon. I would love if you could actually read to us, your selected passage from nineteen Eighty-four because it's exactly along the, the lines of conversation that we're having right now about how Orwell writes about the party's control over human thought in the novel. So could you could you read your selection Boris? Sure, the party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final most. Central command, his heart sank as he thought of the enormous power arrayed against him the case with, which any party intellectual would overthrow him in debate, the subtle arguments, which he would not be able to understand much less answer. And yet, he was in the right they were wrong, and he was right. The obvious the silly and the true had got to be defended truisms are true. Hold onto that the solid world exists it law. It's laws. Do not change stones are hard water is wet objects unsupported fall towards the earth's center with the feeling that he was speaking to Brian, and also that he was setting forth, an important axiom. He wrote freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four if that is granted all else follows. That's Michael Sheldon. Reading an excerpt from George Orwell's nineteen Eighty-four. We should say that, that when we when he feigned that Winston Smith. Is is writing? He's writing secretly right in, in his own diary is his. Mike. Yeah. He's writing what he hopes will be a record of all of this, that might survive. But of course, the whole point of the big brother's regime is to make sure that nothing survives. He kinda got this idea from Stalin's habit of erasing people from photographs once they fell out of favor. And of course, the whole notion of the purge trials. So he, he had this idea that history might disappear facts might disappear simply because they became inconvenient, gene. Go ahead. But I was just I was gonna say that his first transgress Whitten Smith's, I sort of transgressive act is to get himself Dari, which he tries to right around the corner from the, the Thais cream. It's conc- him on. So he compose you to compose himself on out of the is of the, the state, and so that, that private world, I think is a very important part of, of, of, of what it is that you're trying to protect from, you know, all sorts of pressures. I mean in, in, in the book, it's sorta, visit were maligned big state. Because that was well experienced the nineteen thirties. I mean, the book is the product of all of his life, really of hundreds of thousands of words of writing and thinking and slowly getting toward something, but he had the. About s-, if you look at it now, I think lives on precisely because in a way very particular is talking about being a person and the person, the society in a way that you can still relate to. Well, you know, in addition, this, this excerpt that you've picked Michael, it be, let's go back to the beginning line. The first line in the excerpt, where Orwell writes the party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final most essential command. Now this line, it was got a resurgence on social media, not all that long ago when President Donald Trump at a veterans of foreign wars convention said, just remember what you are seeing, and what you're reading is not what happening. So is that is that to is to close is too close a comparison. No, because it's, it's our political way now to create our own information, and privee at as though it's everyone's information and to pretend that we have our own set of facts, and the other side has another set of facts. It is exactly, I know this is ancient history to bring up the Spanish civil war. But is it is exactly that grounding in that war? Where factions were against each other to such a degree that you could be in favor one day and murdered. The next day by your supposed friends, and I think he got that, that sensation there that at some point you have to hold onto an objective reality, you have to say as Orwell's said very powerfully. I was shot in the throat for this war. He was in the Spanish civil war. I got a bullet wound in my f-r-o-t-h. I can feel it. Who, who the hell are you to tell me what to think I, I was willing to surrender my life? For the struggle. So he, he had to hold onto the facts as he knew them otherwise, they would be distorted out of all reality. Right. And I think go ahead Jerry, he's very fascinated by irrationality. He knows that irrationality those lies as what those distortions of reality, almost a in the nineteen thirties were winning and his response to that. I think one of the things in the book, there's a sort of golden golden country, but also in his life. He he said somewhere, you know, lowest live. I'll enjoy trivial pleasures. He liked growing flowers. He liked growing things. He wrote the book actually against really beautiful background in Scotland. He this is really profound stuff. He's saying. The scientific truths. If we don't hung onto those, we will go out and that feels that the moment science feels onto challenge in a lot of ways. This is the thing that exactly makes Orwell hero of both the right and the left his, his stalwart stand for for independence of thought of reality of truth. But it seems as if both on the on the far right? And the far left or perhaps all of us human beings, because aided by technology are in a world where because we can essentially constructor, digital realities, we are not doing at all what or or well wishes that we did, which is hold onto two fundamental truths. But on that point, I just want to actually allow some of our callers to come into let's go to one who's calling from Sarasota. Florida one you're on the air. Yeah. Really enjoyed the conversation. I was born in nineteen forty nine and they read nineteen eighty four in the late seventy six I gotta read this and, and he was going to happen in nineteen eighty four. So I read the book and nineteen Eighty-four came around and none of the stuff in the book happened. So I said her but it's all happening now. It just having a few years later, you know. So nineteen Eighty-four is twenty nineteen should have been a more accurate title. Couple of comments about nineteen Eighty-four. I don't remember anything about religion being a part of the story. You know, the religion has like no role. It was kinda communistic or, you know, like very much impacted by the second World War, so. Religion was really not an element. And now really is huge and getting bigger all the time and religious tensions and differences are huge part of the, of the conversation now and the other element was the element of constant war, which is also something that's happening now. There's always a war going on and you had to be against it, or you're not patriotic, or you had to be for the east side had its own, so take it back from you. I'm so sorry that we have a couple of minutes before we have to get to our next. Breaking wanted to allow Michael Sheldon to respond to what Wong was saying about religion not being overtly or at all in nineteen Eighty-four. Why is that? Oh, faith, and sex or dangerous, aren't they in a big brother recognizes that or is regime does that if you give people the chance to exercise their faith whatever it is, or certainly their sexual impulses? You lose control of them. You need to have control of those two private areas of their lives in order to have total control. And that's really what he's after. He's, he's trying to break down individual will, and that certainly place, you'd wanna start and Jean Seaton would have to say about that. I think that. Religion isn't the because it would have been a, an alternative source of independence on the religion as in communism or in fascism. He was looking at regimes that repressed religion. But in a way, the party's religion. So with a think the Paul tease, ideological control over what you do what you believe is like some religion, but it doesn't it doesn't have the independence of spiritual faith. This is an anti spiritual. Well, we are talking about George Orwell's nineteen eighty four. It was published seventy years ago. The Saturday, what lessons does Orwell's great novel have for us here in two thousand nineteen who is big brother today. One hear what your answers to that question. And will head into the break with rage against the machine's nineteen ninety nine song testify, which invokes the Orwellian, phrase, who controls the past controls the future. This is on point. Hey, it's been an Ameri, and we're the hosts of endless thread, the show, featuring stories found on the website, read it but you don't have to be ready to enjoy the kinds of stories. We tell like a couple experimenting with non monogamy or boredom that may have predicted the attacks on Pearl Harbor. Subscribe to endless threat on apple podcasts or wherever you listen. When's the last time you had a really good workout? None of your vice apps. But if you'll brain I'm Sean Covey dot com. Host of hidden brain. Listen every week. Flex your mind. This is on point Meghna, Chuck regarding we're talking this hour about the seventieth anniversary of George Orwell's to stop in classic nineteen Eighty-four, it turned seventy on Saturday. And yet, it seems to have deep residents residents now even in two thousand nineteen and we want to hear from you. If you think that way, not just if you think that way because I don't want just affirmative calls, if you disagree with us. I'm joined today by Jean Seaton. She's director of the or well-founded nation. She's also officially historian of the BBC and professor of media history at the university of Westminster. She's with us from London. Michael Sheldon, joins us as well from Bloomington, Indiana, he's an English professor at Indiana state university and author of Orwell the authorized biography and Jane. There's something that you said earlier that I want to circle back to a little bit. And I want to do that by listening to the opening scene of the film adaptation of nineteen Eighty-four, which came out in eighty four and in the scene. Depicts the daily ritual. Called the two minutes, hate where members of the outer party, watch a film about enemies of the state and express their hatred. And here's what it sounds like. Proud. They're shouting Goldstein because one of the enemies of the state is named Emmanuel Goldstein. So Jean Seton, what is it about Orwell's depiction of the way, the passions of, of, of entire society of humans can be so easily aroused? What is it about that, that still seem so trenchant today? Well, I think, well, because it's well with writes himself into everything, and you one of the things about the way, which is written is the Winston Smith person goes in to the two minutes hate, which is a sort of regular X or way of exhorting people to believe big brother more and to raise that feelings Nicos into it, and with some hostility, and then he he feels. That he's attracted to it. He feels the of it on himself. So that's, that's really very interesting aspect, which will well always goes to the most uncomfortable places. Why it feels to me really terribly pertinent is the way in which open quotes the media used to think about the heritage media, but communities of people you always, and he would like to be seen as admirable within an honorable within can be moved beyond what feels reasonable to really extreme actions and views and hostess and impoliteness is and horrible, MRs on that feels a bit a bit light agreement people online that somebody is awful unready being abusive away, wouldn't be face to face. Are you talking about social media mobs, essentially, yes? Yes. 'and. We've just in Britain being through, we still in the middle of horrible co Brexit, which Gordon is will mean I've no idea what it means. Maybe what it means. But it certainly produced it's legitimized British people quite often being a very unpleasant to each other, and not listening to each other, and not listening and being roused to feelings, rather irrationally that you wouldn't be if you thought about it feels like a very potent. Aspect of contemporary life that he was nailing down in the two minutes hate which in a way came from the way in which the Soviet Union and German propaganda had worked, so he's, he's working from the real life unease working from propaganda in Britain that trying to make you brace up stand up. So he's got he's got real information around but white feels pertinent is because it's about the about belonging to a group of people and therefore losing control of your feelings. Right. In ways that you wouldn't do if you would just sitting down with your mom having a Cup of tea. Well, let's go back to the phones. Go to Ethan, who's calling from Cumberland? Maine. Even you're on the air. Hi. Yeah. I'm just calling 'cause listening to this, it really makes me think the interesting thing about our modern age, is that even with things like Sri Lanka Myanmar, the Wieger poppulation in China in the western world. We've been handing over all of our data in our control to the to private companies like Facebook, Google, Amazon. And these companies have actually they willfully show that they do control our behavior, and that they can manipulate how we feel by changing their algorithms and changing the messaging to us and I was just wondering if on that. Right. So Ethan, thank you so much for your call. So Michael Sheldon big brother, not being political, but rather? Pry commercial private tech will this is another one of Orwell's great insights that the real motivator here is power. The acquisition of power in the holding power and power can take many different forms, commercial bureaucratic government, whatever, but Orwell saw how power fed these huge organizations and how that cause those organizations to twist themselves into all kinds of manipulations of data and facts and other things in order to serve their purposes and sustain their power, and we can see this just in so many places today. Well, gene, you're the, the, the remainder of trio here that hasn't had a chance to share an excerpt from nineteen Eighty-four, and yours is actually is particularly interesting as well. I was wondering if you if you might read it to us. Yes, it it's. Whitsun Smith is remembering, but you have to remember challenged thing in one thousand nine hundred four has a dream, and he's remembering that in some way, his mother and sisters sacrifice their lives to him. And he's just looking back to the dream life. And this is the quote. The thing that knows suddenly struck Winston was that his mother's death nearly thirty years ago had been tragic and Saurav who in a way that was no longer possible tragedy. He perceived belong to the ancient time to time when there was still privacy, love and friendship, when the members of families stood by one another without needing to know the reason his mother's memory toward his heart, because she had died loving him when he was too young and selfish to love her in return because somehow he did not remember how she had her Feist hustle to a conception of loyalty that was private and unalterable such things. He saw could not happen today today. There was fear hatred in pain, but no dignity of emotion. No deep or complex, Soro's. All this seemed to see in the lodge is his mother and his sister looking up at him. Through green mortar hundreds of fathoms down and still sinking. That's Jean Seton reading an excerpt from George Orwell's nineteen Eighty-four. Why is it that you wanted to highlight this passage? Partly because I found it moving. Partly because it really really stunned me really streaming. I reread it. Complex emotions deepen complex Soro's, these things that culture and our lives should hold onto. I'm one worries that it's easy to hate. And a lot of feelings come pups as they always have done sort of secondhand from celebrities on the ones capacity that, that describes something about once something alarming that we need to hang onto, which is. You know, difficult, no STI, not just to be Sade, not just to be shared just to be not to be done away with on not need. Doesn't need to always hung out. You know it. The sorrow. How we think about guilt, and shame and sorrow and grief, because these are all words in this. This is something that we may be in danger of losing one looks around public life. And you could almost take off people. You'd Ma who you think. Well, yes, I know that there are private Souris that right? And they experienced in a real and. I mean, even MRs may, I known as may when watch today up the prime minister, she's hopeless prime minister, but there's no doubt that she has private stories. Well, there's everything in that line that you read that today there were fear hatred and pain, but no dignity of emotion. No deep or complex, sorrows. Let me just see if I can see one more call in here. John is calling from Boynton Beach, Florida. John, you're on the air. All right. Thank you for taking my call really interesting conversation that you guys are having about books that I absolutely adore, and I actually was an English teacher, actually teach. And one of the things that you've been talking about that is not usually discussed so much in overlooked, when the book is discussed as the destruction of language, and how significant that is, as a teacher I have had, I hoped, professor, would, you know comment on this as well every every year? It's seems that the richness of Okabe cabbie, Larry. And specificity of language has is diminishing and to go back to your question that you asked who is big brother. It not. Only as government is revealed with, like the Edward Snowden revelations that echo the other one of last callers. It's the it's Google social media, and Amazon and Doyle to go back to your first to your, your to your, the, the, the clip from the movie, and the quote, you brought in with his conversation with linguists, sign is the conclusion of that conversation, which is most haunting is that when he says, we wouldn't even fifty years we've been won't even able to have this conversation that the language of dissent will be impossible because people can't even think well John, thank you so much for your call. Michael, gene. We have four minutes left to this. It's gone by far too quickly, and I. Do want to, to open the door a little bit, too. If there are messages of hope in George, Orwell's, nineteen Eighty-four and Michael, let me start with you, because I must shamefully admit that it wasn't until yesterday in the multiple times that I have read this book that I love so much. It wasn't until yesterday that I read the appendix, and that's because another writer that when I was researching and preparing for today said there is a message of hope in the appendix to nineteen Eighty-four Michael, what is going on there? Why, why is that important will, I think Orwell's attempt to analyze what it is? He's trying to set forward gives us some hope partly because it isn't just that the analysts the analysis so good. It's an analysis of Newspeak. Whether yeah. And it's an it's, it's the understanding that the book itself is a kind of monument to what he thinks may disappear unless we hang onto it. He was once told a several people how good one of his books is and afterwards he turned away and said, but no one said it was beautifully written. And I think part of what we've discovered here talking today is how beautifully written this book is it is it self, a testament to Orwell's, enduring power, it is a testament to the enduring power of language, and of storytelling, it, it the book says, what the future can be if we choose to follow it, and here, it's message, well, gene, I, I don't even sure how to read the appendix, I'm not sure whose voice. It's written in because it talks about that. The intent was to have new speak be the language for everyone by the year twenty fifty. But the, the way it's described doesn't maybe is it that, that never happened. I'm not sure but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It means that the testimony, you've just read on the mind you have just been below beside. Even though it's being destroyed at least record of it has survived that say real history, the books about how you find higher preserve the possibility room history. So suddenly in this thing that's really written like a government report. You realize that it has survived. But I think the other thing that makes it a hopeful book, his this is he's not saying this hostile Hutton, he saying kind of stand up. You know, Roy's homes, you can do something about it. He doesn't write it to make you miserable rights to born, you know, MU. Yeah. Well, and Michael, he sort of rights appendix at one of the seems right? That what are the limits of Newspeak? Was that in no way by design? Could it capture the complexity of human thought in as we have in our current language and he points to of all things? The best known passage from the declaration of independence. I thought that was absolutely fascinating. Yeah. Because it's a war of words and ideas, almost literally, it's an attempt to claim the high ground for language against those who would diminish it and who would use it again for the purposes of their own power, and that can't be allowed to happen. Anyone who reads the book and reads it of thoughtfully conceived that, gene, it will forever be a heartbreak in me. And I'm sure with every other or will fan to, to know that this was his last book that Orwell died, what? Only several months of Turkey losses after the publication of nineteen Eighty-four one simply will never stop wondering I won't stop wondering what more he could have written. He was only fifty years old when he died well, yeah. Or something? Forty seven actually. Seven but it doesn't matter. He died young on the book is written so brilliantly, partly because I didn't know that he knew he was dying who your life to die. But he knew that his he was running out. So it's, it's got all of that grasping onto. You know, everything that beautiful in it, while Jean Seton director of the Orwell foundation and official historian of the BBC professor of media history at the university of Westminster, thank you so much for being with us this hour. Thank you. And Michael Sheldon English professor at Indiana state university, and author of Orwell the authorized biography Michael shelter. It's been a great pleasure to speak with you. Thank you so much. Here it was fun. Thank you. And as we end this hour, celebrating the seventieth anniversary of Orwell's nineteen Eighty-four will close with the two thousand three song by Radiohead, inspired by that party slogan Tuplice two equals five. I'm Meghna talker. Bardy. This is on point.

George Orwell Michael Sheldon Jean Seton professor Jean Seaton BBC Orwell foundation Michael Indiana state university Winston Winston Smith director London university of Westminster NPR NPR Boston Indiana Burma North Korea
Retention, lockdown two, skills and levelling up

The Wonkhe Show - the higher education podcast

35:27 min | 6 months ago

Retention, lockdown two, skills and levelling up

"It's the one key show which working on new research retention lockdown to and skills and leveling up. It's coming up. The students who may be testing positive. And of course they are in a different situation if they are quarantining because that positive they can't get out of their room. Unlike the other students so i do think we are going to have to think of ways in which we can reach students and involves taking them. Christmas dinner jumping from president of only. Welcome to the key go rancher. This week's higher education news policy analyst. I'm walkies editor in chief markley recording from her. And look down to on. It's been another roller coaster of a week here to take us through the ups and downs of a week in higher education policy. I'm joined by two guests in london. We have done a beach. Chief executive of london higher donna. You're the weekdays hi mark. I'm going to say my highlight was actually just yesterday when i actually got to go to the university of westminster one of my london members physically which was such novelty. I've been doing mace meetings. Like many of you online and to actually get out and about with just amazing. I'm very jealous. Left my sparrow in And in practice. And we have unto vice chancellor of university of sussex out of your holiday weekdays. And i've been work actually. Since may have been coming in every day but last night i went with a security team just walking around the campus for our so and i talked to a bunch of students who were pretty happy actually to be here of the home so it was really energizing and lovely to speak to them and i'm going to give myself a highlight of the week. Just because we're not gonna talk about the us election on the pocus. Otherwise but it was the slow trickle of a of the of the red wolf states turning blue last forty eight hours. I don't think i've been so worried about an election in a long time and this one seems to be heading the right way so i'm going to give myself a hollow the week. It was particularly the michigan. Going blue Where we think it's a time recording. It's almost certainly all over for donald trump so Finally a piece of good news in a very after very bleak few his right but let's dive right into it this week. We publish some original research on on shoot being and retention diner. What jumped out at you. Yeah i think the research you published a world doing say by the way it does contain some really sobering findings not least the fact that students are struggling with a lack of a sense of community right now and more than half of those that you serve report that they feel lonely on a weekly or even daily basis so i think the main message at jumps out at me is just how important the social aspect of higher education is has been a lot of focus on teaching and learning but hardly any on that more sort of personal social aspect. So there's definitely much more that we could be doing to ensure that the student experience this year is connected us possible. Yeah either if you had time to catch up with the research but do you think it reflects kind of your experiences. Have you been meeting. Students recently does reflect. What that's you. I think we need to be honest about this. There is a real challenge. But if you don't mind. I think which needs put it into broader context. There is already a growing an acute mental health crisis among young people and this is pre pandemic. it's also something that is not just in universities and the evidence of mental health crisis. His wes among students among young people at university rather than people who do. But it's is a problem everywhere and the conditions last six or eight months had been awful for everybody and young people particularly who realistically most people at this age this age coming out soon. The time socializing living the lives that we'll let them with that right and suddenly. They're not allowed to do so. It really is not surprising. I think students legitimately expect their universities to help them and unable of working really hall to provide that we can have talk about some of the things that we can do better. We are doing. Tell us what we're doing test. What what can what can universities do better because this is clear particularly the learning the problem is is going to be much worse as he has an obvious reasons when i think of course it is nothing. We just have to recognize that. Something's we can't so what we what we do. Is we come reproduce the full experience of tape society and being a member of student society if it's just mediated through teams. Zoom societies are doing student sought. He's doing what they so. This grateful nights. There's great activities that they're doing an on monday night the night before the election up politics society sausages on an absolutely brilliant event. won the won the half hour broadcast which had speakers from around the world. Actually washington bureau the guardian Cnn schultz men who's ready respectively anonymous analyst just to bring students involved so there's some of the things we can do. We're putting in place a whole bunch of other activities. Such as online exercise classes quizzes for students. We're gonna have a competition for for students to win an award for me. But but i think we also need to be realistic that the conditions are not the same as they are in normal and hans. Mental health support has to be part of the package. Can i chip in there as well. I mean adam. Side is absolutely right. And i know from london high members that universities are really doing their best to get students engaged. But i think we've got a double whammy of challenge ahead. Firstly this is locked down to in many ways. We exhausted a lot of the options that we did in lockdown warm when things like zoom quizzes novel new. I think it's fair to say that you know we've kind of exhausted those options now and people might be getting a bit sick of them so we need to try and be a bit more innovative there and then secondly we are facing some of the toughest months ahead. The days are getting shorter. The evening stock. I think this is one. We'll see a lot of these mental health precious exacerbated so the the onus is on us now to try and get something in place I'm interested to get from both of you. A sense of what what you think we should be asking from government in this industry. I think i'm going to give us very much for this. You know they did provide some very small money to to them. In health mental health provisions and it was a different generic level. I do think that this is something that we're going to have to do ourselves. And the challenges all restaurants. They are very real. I think if all we do is we say it's about mental health support. Then we're not providing the surprise. He's for social social engagement. That we can do and we are coming on later on to discuss whether it's why. It's tough seasons beckham chemists. But i think there's a very strong mental health issue around this so the more isolated students the ones who don't live in flats with other people who can't from a bubble of new friends and actually i think that's part of the outset and i think partly answer is is teaching because he's all over the agents are also social engagements and that isn't the hell. I totally agree with that. And i do think that where government could be helping isn't thompson of reframing the narrative somewhat at the moment the correspondence that you're seeing is this isn't like it used to be if you're not happy complain well how about this isn't like it used to be but we're the start of a new own. We got a chance to experiment shape the future to do things better and we want to work with you to create a learning environment for the future both socially and in terms of teaching and learning. So i think there's a lot that could be done on that sort of the tone that's coming up to the government at the moment. What do you think about this kind of data about kind of managed exit. Students just aren't happy. And perhaps there's no light in the tunnel when it comes to lockdowns and the pandemic Should there be some kind of system that allows students to maybe pause there. 'cause come back to it later on move their credits around. I mean we'll talk about the skills gender later on but it does seem like there's some obvious winds to be done to be had to enable students to make the right choice for them without being penalized. Absolutely i mean. Ministers have been talking for years and i work with the past three of them about hop on hop off approach which is right for the individual. It's not all about three year undergraduate degree in one block. And i think the time is now for us to experiment with some of these things definitely. Yes i this wrong with that. But i think the the risk is Is encouraging people to to look a very short time circumstance. Something i can be. There is a better option for me when know the reality. That moment is that there are no good options for anybody and the with. We're all going to have to find a way. And i think all of us can have to find a way of coming to terms with that. Circumstance really changed and often is not greener elsewhere. My worry is if this isn't a producer my worry for students. If they leave now then they'll be going back home. They'll be in circumstances where they have no control over their lives and things aren't going to be much better for them if they think i'm gonna there's a better 'cause meals where there's a program from you sweat i actually. I just think we're all going to have to accommodate yourselves to was not a particularly pleasant reality and you can read the whole report. Don't drop out on wonky dot com and follow the links in the shadows right. Let's see who's been blocking us this week. I'm jim senior policy advisor at the university of by pete university of new mexico. Research from the looks at how universities can demonstrate the benefits of local control of our deeper with new policy. I look larry. I argue. We can do this through be clear. About who pops up demonstrating abrasion with a roadmap to work together. Clear evidence the economic benefits by developing our shared pass additional funds. The best right time of recording england has headed into. Its second national lockdown adam. What is going on among the national came into force. This morning as we record. I'm the universities are exempt from this has a schools and i think that comes from recognition that the education is essential for people's longtime future and for that social Social good universities have we maintaining the portrays are open They'll are secure. So the difference between now and march is that we have put in place substantial measures to ensure that social distancing is maintained. And these are the cleanest places i've ever ever worked and so on the face. Things are very good things not exactly the same as they were last february or january because central for teaching is now online so we do have blended learning. And that's working quite well. I think in most places There are some universities of course in areas whether it's much higher levels of of covid nineteen in my own have gone fully online but I think things that are positive must be before month. There's been lots of calls this week for the whole sector to move completely online so we've had ucla and then us. And then indy sage report out suggesting that university better off all online but dina i mean what oceans meant to do with that time if everything's online and lots of clubs in stocks are close. Sporting activities closed. What does she meant to do. I think we've just discussed that. In the first section as well the importance of students being able to get onto campus for learning and teaching. It's not just about the physical act of learning. It's it's an opportunity for them to actually be in a room. Physical contact with other people socially distanced of course and just automatically makes you feel better. But i actually really grateful that the government has said that universities can remain open in inverted commas. The that's what they're doing the rest of the time. I think that really goes back to what we were saying earlier about. Finding innovative ways to use the technology that we do have to enable students to take to connect better socially to maybe take activities on line. That wouldn't otherwise be. We are at the beginning of a new door. And as as i said before. And i think we have to experiment now. One thing i would like to raise about the guidance is it's been great particularly representing london universities. Now there's a lot of commuter. Students does recognize commuter students this time. But there is an in it. Which i've been pondering over and i don't know if you've noticed obviously it says that catering for residential students can continue but it says and i quote all other catering outlets on campus would need to follow the takeaway only model and you should take your food home to the place where you live to consume it. Now if you're university students who can meet an hour or more campuses as many students do in london and you'll university it's done your best to keep catering service open for the students so they can eat and drink. an on. campus with limited need to move out out and about into the wider community. Then if you closer service you now. Basically forcing the students to leave campus for coffee although midday meal and to move out into the way to community and increase the risk of spreading catching the virus. And that doesn't sound very sensible to me and is not very helpful to those universities with a big commuter base. And i'm worried. It's a backdoor way of forcing some institutions to take on teaching online. So i think that's definitely one to watch. Yeah what read read the da garlands and subsequent documents. It doesn't it doesn't often doesn't sound like they really understand what our university is. And they seem to think of them as big schools. Basically it doesn't it doesn't appear that they understand how much university kind of bleeds into its locality and local community and i mean salsa constant frustration hair walkie towers. There's this other issue that the guidance raises is christmas. And it's still. We're still waiting on government guidance about how students get home at christmas. This is now pending for for several weeks at a law speculation in the press. Couple of days that many students will have basically decided not wait for the guidance if they were anyway and high talent back home before lockdown started. Have you seen any evidence of that. We've seen we've seen a tiny bit of evidence for me. This is one of the really good reasons why we shouldn't be moving online. When when i think this is why the ucla in the national new students are really making a mistake. And i think we need to come. Come to the christmas union second but i think we need to have a proportionate understanding of. What's happening so i mean my universities in the lower area of low heavy risk we've currently nineteen cases on campus which has very low We have three new ones over the weekend but manchester which is obviously being very much in the news. The university of much had no new cases over the last three days so it seems as if the wave. I don't want to tempt fate but it seems if the is passing and students are the lowest risk of getting any complications with covid nineteen. And i think there is a real worry that if we move online completely then exactly what you say what will happen. Students will disperse and dispersing into more vulnerable. Communities is not a good thing so i think there's a really strong moral case for us not just in terms of the things we've been talking about in terms of enhancing people's lives but also protecting the broader community that we retain the stint remain being taught tickly campus based university. I think the situation of commuting students is slightly different. The christmas issue is is a though. Because we've given government has given a very strong commitment. That students will be able to return on christmas. My view is that the way that will have to do that is to have mess a symptomatic testing in the week before they go clearly. The national capacity for intestine traces. Just not being what we need and we keep on being promised that it's gonna meet our requirements soon just for the sake of the country that were there within the next three or four weeks. Yeah and on. I was just gonna say on fat This is where. I'm seeing a lot of london. Higher members as well really working with the rain public health authorities in their local communities to as you say adam double down on that own asymmetric testing be that through saliva tests rather than the national coronavirus testing program. Because at the moment that seems already way through the mess that we're in there is some positive noises here isn't that because they the trial in liverpool of the of of attempting to test the whole population with instant lateral flow tests. There's some indication that the idea is that that will be rolled out on the national level at the end of this lockdown england's. Which would if you just about. Squint giving us enough time to potentially test all students and staff everywhere in time to kind of get them home safely if they're if they proved negative. Have you been tried anything like that. Sussex hundred liquid retro public health is actually not in favor of a symptomatic testing at the moment because the danger of of people behaving as if they're clear because of the tests only work within a particular winter for national bases and things will change and there's a mutton say the case is a much lower now than they were even three or four weeks ago in most universities and i think that would probably change the confidence levels around the dress public health around the country. Yeah and and assume the central government as well. I mean i agree. I think that does show where we're probably the kind of the student peak if you like it is that risk of of bringing it home bringing it back to bring back to communities that is clearly going to be whereas i've seen i've seen some models that does push it does does indicate that would push a kind of third peak in december january. Which would obviously be this brings. This brings me back to this question of the so if assuming able via some some combination of isolation and mass testing to get the majority of students who who live on campus or live at university back home in time for christmas. That's obviously going to leave. A whole bunch of students stock. Not able to go home assuming that they have tested positive and the guy says they're not allowed to go home of course we don't know what the guide is isn't and we'll be but i think it's fair to say something like that. I mean this. This seems to me to be a real danger. We talk about talk about loneliness. Can you imagine anything worse than being tested positive for covid possibly feeling really rotten with the virus and being stuck in your student accommodation while your family is celebrating christmas shortly. Sean to put a contingency plan in place for that to make sure those students don't completely fall through the cracks because of course nothing is what's remembering that we are. All universities with international students are used to having significant students over holiday periods. When all of those things apply suit even if even if they come from countries which they celebrate christmas because the periods so quiet because they're so far away from their families and we would put huge effort into making sure that we can bring an esprit de corps to all students of christmas. Nothing nuclear under lockdown conditions or or pandemic conditions the support. We can give them. We'll be smaller. But with luck with them with good fortune. We will be on the lockdown so there are things we'll be able to do which involve people interacting with one another christmas and i think it's really important that we make sure will students with from the uk all from overseas. Yeah i mean. I tell you agree with that. I was already going to say that universities in general do have a lot of students anyway. For whom the university is their main home. Be they care. Leavers restrained students international students who can't get home or even post graduate students again. Who resident all year round. So this year. We're adding to that. The students who may be testing positive. And of course they are in a different situation if they are quarantining because they're positive they can't get out of their room and like the other students so i do think we are going to have to think of ways in which we can reach these students and if involves taking them christmas din- number for president it's not ideal but it showing we care a good example. That is at least that we about two thousand students here on campus sussex and we gave delivered an easter activity and all those very small gesture it was a it was a sense of just showing that we had and it went out really well with stevens now here to tell us about a controversial new era fast. Metrics start success. It's won't keys data supreme. Tk last wednesday a highlighted new experimental start success metric wishes currently are for comment Contacts was in provided in england. It's the compound metric derived from non-continuation and graduate employment indicators. And when it's officially released this month it will be available at provider and subject level was graduate employment non-continuation being the last half metric standing as a national student survey falls from favour doesn't take much imagination to tie this new plan into whatever may come of the peer review of deaf at its response but we're keeping a closer eye on start a success as utility was in the festive regulatory baseline and on the be conditions if you cast your mind back to the allocation of additional student numbers as part of the failed numbers cap the same metrics provided the entry criteria for bids on the feature in condemnation of the nss as an example of robust metrics. So you can see the very important right now and this clearly something afoot here. You can play with an approximation of the provider level on site. Stop to get sides of it or even. Run the two separate metrics. It's the scatter plot. There's no correlation ask. There are not point three but as you might expect the russell group do better a million plus do less. Well y two meshes link so closely to student intake characteristics. Anyway do look out for the data in the weeks to come and thank you to the many people who have talked to me about letter. Throw f s. I'm not really meant to see. My inbox is always open for chat right now. The pandemic of washed away much of what plan for policy-wise but there's plenty of inching reports and policy action happening around the edges with reports on leveling up and skills dina. Can you talk us through them. Yeah okay so this week. We've seen the topic of leveling up as you say family back on the sectors agenda with the publication of two new reports from the. Up foundation. now these look at the role that universities compla- in so-called left behind towns and cities and they actually made the headlines this week with suggestion that universities could be the key to saving derelict high streets if they take on the role of anchor tenants. If you like and tissues shops become used as lecture halls for example but the essence of the report is much deeper than that. And it's all about using the civic power of universities to benefit not just. The town is located in but extending this civic orbit and to help to create opportunities for those in post industrial communities as well and the policy exchange report out. Just just this morning has also entering things to say about the skills landscape. Is there anything that jumps out at. You yeah okay so yeah. the policy. Politics change is back with yet another contribution to the debate about the technical skills deficits which david good hearts introduction is linked to the over supply of bachelor degrees. But but if we gloss over that you can see there are actually some some valid recommendations in the report which which ask government to stop pitying universities against ecologists into suggests to suggest ways in which universities can become part of the solution to more level for five provision and this includes exploring with universities future fee models for this technical provisions or using the dsp restructuring fun to support universities facing financial challenges to focus on higher level technical skills and we know. Some universities are already doing that. Like the university of sunderland comes to my mind. All of this is based on a case. Study of how nottingham trent university as reshaping its contribution to two local areas in north nottinghamshire. Create there's a lot in these as take take the leveling up. I adam. I mean what are the things that struck me about this about. This work was about. How universities can play a role where there isn't an existing whether it's an existing higher education division. You know the cold spots in the left behind towns and. I wonder if you've thought about about that. The university can play. Yes yes we have so. I have to be honest that we've done less of this than we intended to Two years ago because the nature of the landscape has been so difficult but over the last six months. We've really taken particular console. You may know. The crawley is one of the most affected towns in the whole of the united kingdom as of the pandemic because its dependence on get so title so we've been working very closely with a partner college trips to college group and with others in order to to put now for two young people in in such a town am the can help them to rescale in retail for for the future inevitably. This is now. This is in development rather than completed. But i think universities have a particular responsibility to to help out in areas where there is a lack of provisions and web. Fundamentally young people are just not moving. So yes i think there is. I think there's also a challenge that we always get faced with. Which is that. Universities are expected so all of the problems everywhere. We're actually just doing a cool job at the moment is really quite a challenge for gedney. Yeah and just to add to that. I mean if i take my london a huddle for a moment if members permit me and put my governor hat on at the university of worcester. I mean. i'm watching them. Do a really exciting project by branching out into dudley and a university college there to basically doubled down on this technical provisions and dudley as she knows property has one of the largest skills deficits in the uk. So that's that's a really good example and also going back to my london base. Dave phoenix at london's southbank. University has been working for the past few years now on a fostering better links it with lambeth college in his local area and the links there and so there is a lot of work going on e. that in what we would consider more to private areas of the uk but also in london where there are pockets of deprivation which are often overlooked. Yeah and then. There's also there's lots of interesting collaborations between eight and further colleges. I mean the associated colleges said on the back of the policy. Change report today that there's no need to kind of pits pit two sectors against each other and as clearly for collaboration. I couldn't agree more thought david hughes piece on the site. Today was absolutely terrific. So we don't usually expect policy exchange reports to be particularly friendly to universities. And i thought that the introduction by david goodhart was a classic of its kind where universities are held responsible for recent political eruptions such as bernie sanders wave or jeremy copen in the uk. Put aside all of the the transformative changes to our western societies last and you can pin the blame on universities but i do think we need to accept as as we accepted with your group was published. There is a real problem with the half of young people who don't go to university. We under invest in them. We under support them. What i found disappointing About politics report is it seemed to be a bit of a claim for universities to be doing the rather than working in partnership properly with efi providers and david hughes was really really tough on this show. He said let's not get into a turf war about who owns the higher technical education space. Not only as a roof colleges and universities we all of its the communities we serve to make sure the parkway declared i thought that summed it up very nicely. We have a joint responsibility to serve out liquid national community. There is a there is a big kind of political and philosophical shift in thinking in governments around round the world. Which is i think i think driving. Some of this and good heart brings a lot of out in his recent work. Notably michael sandel. The american philsopher has written about this again recently. Debbie debbie on the site. Points it out this morning and how review the policy exchange report and he argues. I'll just give you the direct quote from his new book. The tyranny of building politics around the idea that a college degree for that he means university. Because it's the. Us is a condition of dignified work and socialists. Team has a corrosive effect on democratic life. Devalued the contributions of those without a diploma fuels prejudice against less educated members of society effectively excludes most working people from representative government and provokes political backlash and that was does a frontier numeric. We know he's he's been quite french. Labor circles over the last few years particularly at melbourne who talked about the forgotten fifty percent. You've got this government who are essentially making the same argument in different ways and is there. Is there a risk that if the sex doesn't really get ahead of this or doesn't doesn't love figuring out how it can pluck itself into the skills landscape properly that we're going to be on the wrong side of that pinnacle backlashes. Michael sandel talked about it. More permanently and birth birth. You'll sense about this long-term if you agree that there's this long-term philosophical shifts away from universities happening now what what we do to get ahead of that thinking about it but having grown up and one of the few counters england without a university. It's still doesn't have one. I think this rings true. Because there's a reason i'm a governor at the university of worcester because it's a neighboring county and i have seen over the past decade how that has changed aspirations in the local area. Not just in worcestershire in harry. Show where i grew up. I ain't got this year as well even though they've got university now and that filters across and it's not seen as academic versus non academic. Because it kind of provision of worcester provide. They're very big on nothing. Very big on degrees on soc. Sorry very big on degrees of social value healthcare and people can see the direct benefits of that and i don't think that has unleashed in my local area a sort of anti anti academic vibe or whatever it is of being blamed at the moment say no. I'm a bit more skeptical about. I'd say i don. I think probably for the last twenty years we've thought about university educations being a sin. A single thing is hugely varied. Netflix turns around and says that we that engineers or doctors or nurses. As as as donna says unimportant or more more important than people. I think the trouble is that we always get into these binary debates where university good mon university paddle university bad efi. Good a fundamentally we just need to think about our society as being hugely complex and what we need to do is we need to make sure that we can provide the right and indeed the right social value to people whatever they do for wherever they come. And one of the things i find it very very concerning is the discourse becomes far to black and white rather than based upon nuance complexity. We do you have a problem with this government and or you could argue and not just as government other parts of the conservative party also think similarly about this which is essentially e. doesn't provide good value for money and that they can get better economic returns from from efi. We've also got. It's not hard to see. It's hard to see how party end up in a position like that. But the next selection either. I mean. it'd be making noises like that since before before the carbonara as i say so. I think there's a risk that we say. Well we know the value of higher education but just saying just making. That case isn't cutting through anymore. I mean like we talked to. The dsp thinks. Universities is big schools. There are other parts of government that might see while a vaccine the first vaccine viable vaccine for covid nineteen coming out of oxford and in the same breath. I think we should give universities. Less money agree with that. I think what i think. We have to be reflective as institutions and the lives of institutions about what we often Clearly at some point. He's not as happy with us as we might be. I think the other thing though is that we need to recognize that people are often very uncomfortable generically with the idea of universities but when you talk to politicians with their Their party with that concept party. They fiercely supportive of their local universities. And i is the university's even if in the same breath. They're they're disparaging what. Their local universities might stand for so there is a real drawback for all of us to do not just them the rhetorical national level but to work really closely with politicians and without communities to gender to demonstrate the value of institutions without being offensive. And i do think we need always to be consistent until i totally agree and in way this global pandemic that we're in can really help us because it does give the higher education sector a chance to get on the front foot when it comes to redefining the skills agenda It's all well and good saying you can train you for a particular job but we've just seen a lot of industries crash and burn sadly and those jobs may well not be there to come back to and it's all about if we can show that the transferable skills higher education provides in the new digital world we'll be applicable for the future. I think we have a great opportunity this and once again. I'm going back to let split the narrative to glass half full. And let's make sure we're making the most of it. That's about it for this week. Remember to delve deeper into anything discussed there. You'll find links and the show notes. Forget you can subscribe to the poor households. Be just such key sherry by paul podcast oil favor android costra tree. We'll find the fiji. Need mookie dot com slash podcast. And if you fancy parents keselowski show trump name team dot com and we'll be in touch so thanks to donna. Adam decay jay but everyone else at t mulkey for making happen behind the scenes and until next week stay saying.

london forty eight hours Cnn schultz three year university of by pete universi markley university of westminster university of sussex ucla england adam double dina donald trump four weeks donna eight months the guardian michael sandel michigan thompson
Lewis Dartnell // The Knowledge

Anatomy of Next

24:06 min | 2 years ago

Lewis Dartnell // The Knowledge

"The last episode. We capped off a pretty wild discussion and synthetic biology and potentially redesigning human being and our next episode. We're going to be transitioning to the topic of building our first alien city. Now, you could just skip ahead. Listen to that one next or you could learn to stop and smell the roses by roses. I mean, what if there was an apocalypse on earth, and we had to be built human civilization from scratch would we have the knowledge necessary? So many is startled, and I'm a professor at university of Westminster alongside my condemning research in Astro biology minors recent Hopley science book is called knowledge to rebuild all scratch. I had the chance to interview a really interesting thinker in the okay, I'm just gonna go ahead and call it the Armageddon space Lewis, and I talked about his thinking as applied to our world or current home on earth. And then went ahead and took it to the topic of the season Mars. How might some of this thinking apply extraterrestrial? The knowledge is is experiments and the premise of this thought experiment is to magin the youth. We're tomorrow and this being some kind of global catastrophe some kind of doomsday events all about parkland chick event and everything that you take for granted today as dissipated and collapsed. And the vast majority of the human race has died and civilization itself is it's gonna crumble and unfolding friends of the question now is what next what would you need to know, what be the most useful scientific understanding antenna logical. Nope. How to not just survive in a media math? But to go about rebuilding everything from scratch yourself 'cause you go unreal civilization in a way, reboots, computer. When it crashed is a scientist until that thought experiment that premise. Was just released way of exploring or the behind the scenes stuff in all everyday lives in the modern world today, how things are made in done and infrastructure of the more than walls. We rely opponent take for granted without really needing to think about what's going on behind the scenes antone to explore that a good way of style. Tonight's ration-, which imaginative is dissipated. And so the knowledge is is nestles boy, it pretends to be a handbook rebuilding of the pockets with all that should be cleared. The book is actually nothing to do with the end of the ball tool, and it's a book about survival them all wilderness as valuable skills all printing. It's assigned spoke about how Allman world works. I'm over there key mentions discoveries throughout our own history that enabled us -ociety aggress and advance and great. Wonderfully sophisticated civilization. We live in today before we get to the substance of what some of these inventions, our, and and how you would go about building something like what we have from nothing or almost nothing. I think it's hard for people to even fully understand. How much information we have? And if we're at risk at all of losing it. So we've had these periodic moments in history where whole troves of information have been lost. There were cities far before Rome. But the fall of Rome and the following dark ages or dark age the middle ages. I guess that's the last framework. We have for thinking about any of this kind of stuff, and it just seems like that's impossible today. It seems like they're just too many of us the world is too. Big there too, many cities will never have another dark ages. What is your thinking there? Yeah. You're right. So so the the book the knowledge is essentially how you could avoid a doll cages from descending. If all civilization EPA collapsed, and recover. As quick as possible. I'm just looking back in history. The raw is as you mentioned, a number of examples of a collapse allies ation, a non Raveling of the social structure and organization and the full of the western Roman empire is a good example of that. And even full the full of run the a huge collapse in the late bronze age the was also due to rattling of social structure on a loss of knowledge you'll having to start again. So it's happened in the pulse in the question is could happen again in a row nephew is all Rhode civilization risk of catastrophic collapse and people having to start again. And I mean, of course, it is when not invulnerable with not perfectly at unassailable civilization could claps in the same way that was of civilizations of clapsed in the past. And essence, in fact, the fact the current civilization is. Is so sophisticated advanced is actually one of its greatest weaknesses in the reason all civilizations sob- capable at billions of complicates technologies. Mining Zoll ses from the natural Weldon processing moving raw materials around and creating energy moving around information with incident things is because world a deeply into connected, and all it would take would be a jolt a disruption to one of those key functions. One of those key factors and everything else. Could stop falling over like dominoes audit. Presumptive that trinity grit went down, it wouldn't just be irritating 'cause he can charge. Your iphone also lectures used to pump gas natural gas people's houses of heating, Stoskopf Fletcher's. Diseased pump to votes net looks at tryst is used in industry, full processing, the raw materials and creating things. We use. So if we start hitting one of those crucial functions one Welt other things can very rapidly. Also, stop falling on the problem in very quickly becomes systemic becomes a very widespread problem. The other issue today is that we will become severe lions on the civilization around. Us jobs is sort of crazy that we do Aren counting CEO IT consultant all the financial sector on many developed world today. Don't really have the first idea how to make do things a self. We don't need to grow food omega tools. Oh crater in close because it's far more efficient for someone else to do that all machinery to do that. So we have did have a big collapse of civilization. We'd probably be much worse off today as modern people in humans than we would being back thirteen fourteen with the black death. Killing off the relation of EuroPol back in the dark ages immediately after the fall of Rome because older people did still skills that they were falling as any how to grow their food needs to be a black nesime, tools and things and we've lost that we are totally behold into the system that we've been born into the collapse of that system leaves us naked know, exactly. But again, I'm not criticizing the system. The system works the modern system of production economics is fantastic. -ly efficient amd productive with everyone being very very good at very specialized role Roz than most people being generalist. So the way the world works works perfectly for us. And then we become very specialized within that. But it also makes us vulnerable to sudden and straffic collapse again as I said before I don't think it claps is imminent addictive. As any reason to think there was a catastrophe rights on Risa? And although we do face some very big concerns and issues with things like environmental degradation. Global warming and sea level rises and running out to basic resources because they're mold people in the us using more resources each draw some big challenges we need to solve in coming years. But I don't think there's a nuclear will imminence anything isn't asteroid about strike. But it is an interesting question. We don't need to believe catastrophes coming. But but how would we build everything back? If it did let's say the power grid is totally failed computing is totally failed to sign the cannot get working again. And you know, within a couple of months, everything is just totally collapsed. How do we start over? What is the stuff that makes civilization work? This is Chuck to one of the knowledge ignoring exact mechanism to get because normally potent at reaching to discuss I think the morning questions what you do often it's shot to one of the knowledge. I explore. All just basic understanding basic knowledge that you use to keep yourself alive. How can you purify disinfect water to make sure that putting a bottle of water up juleps isn't going to kill you to help you use molten understanding of germ theory and one people get sick in the first place, and how you combat those Jones and kill them before they kill you on the basic techniques news at purifying will to chemically disinfecting, it also disinfection hiking scavenge food, you need how he could create off grades electric distribution yourself. Once the the main power it goes down. I'm simplist good goes on. I started with the basics of chemistry making substances for yourself that you need to stop rebuilding everything else off to chapter one. We look each different area capability in terms. We look elements of chemistry of power of transport of. Of materials metals and glass, and how you make them. But also how they've being out of critical in our own history. One good way of cutting at this could just be what are the technologies from which you know, sort of most of the other technologies that we have stem, or what are the big innovations in science, the big innovations in technology that that we really are relying on today. So I think part of the point is the does not just one or two things you can single out everything links into each other in terms of how you generate power, you make basic materials transport those around I communicate with each other. But each of the chapters of the knowledge, I pick a few things of gateway technologies Eichel sort of things you'd want to bootstrap yourself back up to his quick as you can because it would help everything else celebrates and its recovery on his redevelopment. And so the sort of things you can look at if you're starting complete from scratch might be something like. The printing press being able to rapidly recreate human thoughts and human days and share them freely with each other was enormously transformative going back to the fourteen hundreds where you didn't have to write everything out laboriously an incredibly Toyin consuming by hand, but you could mass produce the days on the understanding knowledge and share with everyone within chemistry things like line or soda which you can extract very easily from your mattress environment. If you know how to collect and how to process it simply not opens up things like smelting metals will creating motor to stick Rex together. So when you'll building place living when restructing buildings allows you to create gloss, which is being critical Roman history. Not just for making spectacles, the allow you to seek clearly but glosses being absolutely fundamental to how we've done science since that fifteen hundreds. Goss- allows you to explore the natural world in ways the the human body Conti just by self. You can test tubes to pinch off little bubble of the universe and do experiments on it. I'm Stein will happens in a chemical reaction, and then apply that knowledge of technologies later, but most point he's glass and molded into particular shade to manipulate lighted self you can make a lens for microscope understand about germs and medicine. Why people get sick all to make tell us come say things fo the way the nappy human. I can never see. So it's been a substance glass, which is go to unique combination of properties. Does nothing else. You can make some yourself too, strong and 'unreacted but also perfectly transparent. So he won't to route struck you about to making glass as quick as possible if you has often scratch, you'll you found yourself falling through a time warp to ten thousand BC all. Magically waking up on another planet. I wanna know can rebuild a world yourself a somewhat of a separate question. Less about rebuilding the world from scratch. How would we go about making the world as it stands, more durable? How could we reengineer civilization to come back a little quicker in case of some huge setback? Or to just keep the setbacks away. What you might hope is humanity would learn from his mistake. So if the world did collapse and we full stops again from a blank slate. Gabled remember of it of history will books would survive alongside the knowledge that tells you how to rebel own just in oral history people's memories. We remember what happens, and maybe try to void the happening again, and particular the poems that we've created for selves, how we've and in recent history being overexploited mattress sources that we rely upon and is everything. From using timber and wood because it's fantastic a useful both those summit to build from and extracting chemistry would. But if you chop down trees more quickly than they can regrows name, you deforest run out of that crucial natural naturals that starting to happen. Acutely across Europe and taken England kingdom in the fifteen hundreds in the sixteenth century. And we are definitely feeding that in many resources right now as evident from oil to critical metals and other wool resources is materials that we use on Morton. Well, so you might hope is that we started again, we passed three something more green reboot. We take things need, but extract what we need from environment. But we don't sunny more, responsible and sustainable way RAV in just essentially eating as quickly as we can. And then running out you want to learn from our molesters of the past, and perhaps progress some more, slowly and. Sustainably? What about the centralizing, the world's technology? What about you know, decentralizing the power grid? Severi good philosophy for life to number line. One centralized large resorts to break down a bit to distribute capability, and we all starting to see that more mole with energy. For example. We're not relying on just a few large power stations. We are diversifying energy sources would building so win farms voting on solar panels way, autonomy, more to geothermal-energy, rare appropriate or new capacitation, we even see on a very very small scale where people in their own homes putting onnell's on the roof because they can run themselves lodging penalty and on Sunday, even stopped sendings on at trinity back abounded or though to be appel cuts than perhaps they would build resilience themselves because they can run the home of author on solar panels for the time being. This Email musk, for example, is being really focusing on recent years of the distributed power generation on storage and usage, and we've been making huge strides in battery technology for storing large amounts of energy in a small space, which is grateful electric 'cause but also great having a reservoir energy in your own home, the generated from rooftop solar panels all Moore wind up, and I haven't conceive that read he's onto takeoff in the coming years. You know, we're talking about going to Mars, there's some people who don't wanna do anything on Mars. Just wanna study it in look for life in not touch it. I'm not one of those people I want. I I want to build a new world I want to build a new branch of human civilization, like a different problem from rebuilding our own world after some kind of hypothetical collapse. But could you give us some direction, you know, on the Martian question where do we begin? Yes. So I mean, it is a different problem. But also similar mentioned. I chaps knowledge. How Roldan rebooting often poke lips exactly the same lessons could be applied to starting from scratch on on new world. If you find yourself on mazal crash lands on version earth on as well, something I've been talking with mass engineers about exactly that the how we could adapt aerial and all the research good since the knowledge into looking to self sustaining colonies on Mars because the key issue is sending astronauts Tamaz columnists Tamaz with a set of equipment, and tools and also the knowledge that is all interlinked. So let's you send him with a hundred bits of -ment and within that set of a hundred it enables you to repay each of them all rebuild spat hawks as you need them. So it's again, it's one was not an ecosystem on different things interact and rely on each other. And Khanin reproduce. When it comes to growing company starting second. Call from the first one and most is all the same basic resources as the F does metals in its crust ecus melt Martian all getting like ion out of it. The environment is quite hostile extreme even be able to breathe on Cessnas without a spacesuit. But it's the rule. Materials is go oxygen locked up in the water in the ice on the ground. So you could dig up that poma froth and news electrolysis using at trinity to split water to make auction for breathing and hydrogen. You could use a rocket fuel is carbon dioxide he could use chemistry to making to me thing. You could also uses fuel. So the bit of ingenuity and thinking through that process of gun right back to basics employees south. Byron bootstraps is easy posible. The we can have self sustaining Kony's on MAs. The dumber lines. Have you on earth too? Apply it with food or span Postle aerials. You have to decide where we begin. I we have the eco-system of tools that sustain themselves and replicate themselves, but from there from the tools, what are the next crucial elements that we have to hammer down before we can move onto the task of building a civilization in this really good computer games that you can play in the cheat to buy that explore executive of you just lands on Mars. We've once most shit. How'd you go of building a colony this vives, and it's all about results balancing on major respond things vary and problems and crises come up and making sure the generates electricity. So that you can then make enough oxygen from the water the mind and also use the energy'd stall smelting, the rocks to make more massive yourself that you can then build a larger habitat and create new modules yourself, and there will. Growing population whilst making sure grubbing enough food everyone using all to the extracting same time. I know you'll creating is almost like the time planet earth itself shrunken down into a very small too small pocket, but you still got to balance all of the same things against each other. I have really there's one more quick question. I've been asking everybody you have background Nassar biology. So you've definitely thought about this question before I'm certain Burmese paradox. What is your answer to the paradox? So I think the simplest ons to talks is. It's just that is no one else out that I think this is what I thought I had this crazy insight into this question. That's what I've been thinking for about a year now, and every person I interview recently like, yeah, it's just it's not even a paradox. Occasion occasions. Just bullshit. Yes. Drakes equation Poudel a related book on different things and uninventive strikes. Acquaintance was never intended to come up with an onset with a number. It was just a way exact same way that the knowledge of breaking down every big complicated thing into simple bite size chunks. You can address them by one and trying to understand. And I think he wants to fund his products as as the isn't anyone else out that least not now I'm not in our own galaxy, and it seems like a lot of real estate out in the Milky Way with Astro biology all hunts for extra planets. It seems like lots of wet rocks orbiting wom- stars with the right kind of chemistry and an apse fair and oceans and things like get started. So maybe the constraints the stocking multi of intelligence validation popping up in the galaxy is a bond logical constraint rather than something to planet. Soul stars motive might be our own Evelyn is the creation of at eukaryotic cell. The cell is more complicated than the bacterium and one has its own nucleus and lots of internal structure and organization because rolling history need that kind of most fisted, Sal before you can stop building multicellular life animals animals with brains. The come intelligence in conversation with you design, spaceships and radio tennis games. I'm an extra biologist. So clearly, I think there's a good chance of life on other planets with us MAs. We wrote in our own solar system all exit planets like planets orbiting other sons not galaxy. But I suspect that the thing that prevented that evolutionism the planet's producing complex space-faring spreading life is passable on multiple constraints rather than something else. I love scifis much is the next nerd and star Gaetan and Star Trek and Star Wars and all these other shows that great fund they they don't seem to hold Trie. We don't see a galaxy absolutely teeming industrial technological life around us. I think this what seems to be the rarity of life almost certainly the incredible rarity of intelligent life. And it's really the reason we're here right on this subject Mars preserving and carrying life through the galaxy. Because life is precious on a cosmic scale that means humans need to survive to ensure that our civilization needs to thrive. So as we go about designing our systems are physical infrastructure in roads, and factories and power are kind of intellectual infrastructure and government education or introducing a concept of auspiciously emerging prominence decentralisation with no single point of power. No single point of failure. Next. A slight departure into the present. If the delicate and sometimes dangerous dance of Washington DC and Silicon Valley, we're gonna take a look at contemporary politics. You're listening to anatomy of next.

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Little Atoms 567 - Lewis Dartnell's Origins

Little Atoms

32:29 min | 2 years ago

Little Atoms 567 - Lewis Dartnell's Origins

"They says little atoms a radio show about ideas and coacher with me nail. Denny. This week. We start now on how the Mehta's and his new book origins. Now is a professor of science communication and university of Westminster. He has several wards his signs waiting and contributes to the guardian the times and the New Scientist. He's also very patella vision in a paid on ABC, horizon Sky News, one does the universe. Stargazing live and the sky at night. His previous books include the bestseller the knowledge to rebuild our world from scratch, which you may remember we talked about in the previous little atoms and he's latest book origins. How the Mehta's we're going to talk about today. Louis. Welcome back. It looks like you've got a press release twenty at the blow. Nice of you to say, thank you. And what's the idea behind origins? The general concept that the kind of guiding principle behind the book was to all the different ways that features of the earth is kind of a planet have influenced the human stores, everything from a little origins evolution east Africa, all the way to the very beginnings of culture and the civilizations and cities through modern history, and even up to kind of politics and elections in the last couple of years and an older ways of is influenced and affect directed that story that narrative, and in what way is this sort of a companion piece to the knowledge. So it is it's it's not totally clear, doesn't it doesn't Clem that really my most book the knowledge it was a conceit. It was thought experiment on how you could reboot civilization from scratch off of some kind of hypothetical apocalypse. So in a sense. It was didn't have anything do with doomsday than the world. It was just way of peering behind the curve. Tunes of the modern world and just stuff. Works comes from hell things made. So what the important scientific discoveries and technological inventions that neighbors to go from ten thousand BC in in caves to the modern world of antibiotics trinity. So because all about the human invention human, ingenuity and making all world wants to do for the new book origins was to kind of step back even further and look at history and the grandest possible terms, and how the earth has has been involved us, right? How the planet? We live in is almost like a character in the play alongside humanities species. So let's about to leave lesion of our own species. And so the first of hominids start to stand on two feet, the African valley. What is it about that particular part of the world that made it the correct him via the suitable environment was was to evolve. And also, you know, why was it geologically so special? Well, so in the broadest strokes what needs to happen to turn in a forest welling tree swinging a into bipedal walking up rights. Intelligent, naked apes like like, humans was the whole region of east Africa dried out, an general terms. Went from forest to cross lands and on a whole series evolutionary up patients and are kind of every she line responded. But it was more than that if something specific and something quite weird that was going on in kinda pantry terms east Africa in the last five minutes years or so that books diverges way from the chimpanzees and created such such eloquently talked to him and intelligent using animal that has ourselves and what what it was reading. This is the Rift Valley. I'm what happened. There was a big plume of magma is been rising up beneath the plate of occur. And it's kind of sworn off it's going to push the crust. And this big Zid must being launched people. It's been drying out east Africa because he's African lies in the same band of the earth is the rainforests of Indonesia, and of the Amazon, so it ought to be very wet and pre forested the Refialy to'reopen is this crack this rift and the crust, and it was interaction between the landscape that refunding we have these high ridges amounts side, but very hot low lying valley floor that amplified the effects of little fluctuations variations and the climate as all shifted slide. You'll the converse axes tilted in will notice mind cycles and the ability water in valley floor to your on these moons amplify lakes. Fluctuated severely leaves a huge effect from a very small subtle influence, and it's that thought of of driven intelligence and small. To this in all lineage, then we went onto make tools and invent conversation. I'm trying to just mention the Milankovitch cycle. Also, what's going on with the F as she said. You know, you sort of opening the sun different angles and stuff, and there's various cycles of ice ages. I there has an Icee those there's there's a warm area yet. There's another ice age is that having the sages predominantly affect the highlights cheats at the very north across Siberia, North America Europe, the very south round, the kind of Nikolay. Chile land sits in South America's day. So that's the actually the bits near the poles joins age. They get very cold really see that going to make sense and Barack tropics on the equator these Anchorage cycles. Don't don't call ISIS because you still warm relatively, but it does have a profound effect and availability of water. And that's why the those Mike of cycles important forever Lucien. But there also these same Cozma cycles instrumental in the next chapter and both of the human story and literally of origins the book, which was okay, fine. We crafted as intelligent species Africa. But nowadays, we're one of the most widespread animal species on the planet and the happened about sixty five seventy thousand years ago where we just left migrated. We disperse out of east Africa across Eurasia up into Europe around into the Americas. And what? Enables to do that was was as he say was ages every time the earth kind of slides twenties glacial periods. These coloma's thick sheets of ice form over the north northern regions. And that sucks up a lot of water out. The sees the levels drop on these land bridges, get exposed you can treat walk from Eurasia from going too far eastern side of of your Asia, ROY to cross the Bering land bridge into the Americas. Now, what was special about us about home associates is that previous hominid species, pre previous human species did migrate all across Eurasia. So wrecked as far as China. But we were the only human species to ever made it to the Americas. When HAMAs saplings dispersed slowly crossed, the Bering land bridge and walks into America's we were the first hominem species to tread in the Americas. And we became. This global world spanning species in that process. And obviously, you just mentioned the has got all the way to China. And then for what reason died out, but also like Neanderthal. Yes, the Denison even hominids also basically have these. So why why was the the later way more successful? It isn't really good question. It's something that a lot of paleontologist onto Paula gist. Trying to figure out why is it that? Why are we alone any species? Why are we the only home Annan's to survive to meet the modern world and important why we able to out compete the Denisovans on the details because Nando tolls they were like burly, bulky home. They were physically stronger than us and yet we seem to be able to out compete them. And it, and it seems to be the case that we beat them with with our brains, not not with Braun, and we probably better able to adapt to the changing editions in. To the ice age in Europe when he untold focused, and we kind of inherited the earth from them. And what was probably the reason for that is that we had spent longer in fluctuating unstable environment east Africa than the Anatole who left earlier. So it was almost like we had more training at becoming adaptable. Verse tile? And when we moved from the warm environment woman, dry environment of Africa the cold environment of ice age Europe. We're able to use those transferable skills middle management able to us as a species to use these transferable skills out competing under tolls and takeover took over the world. But this wasn't. I mean, this sort of migration of of the species out of Africa. They didn't stick a flag in a map and say we'll go getting crowded here. Let's go somewhere. Our weather's pulley. And this is like a very gradual. Yeah. Exactly not like this front this. This Pat line. Line of homeless. It's gonna foreing that brow. Was they lean toward the horizon strove for new lands. But it was the case they were essentially feeling what's bit crowded here. Let's move on. So this was a dispersal, and we were still hunter gatherers by this. We were hunting whatever and Luke's species species in the environment and went up poppulation started booming people kind of move a bit away from the edge is and Kalis new lands and disperse need very slow moving waves. It took tens of thousands of years to to calm is the world. But, but it was your sages the ice age the most recently age that enabled us to do that you to this little, but the ice is also having the most effect on the climate. Of course, if you know living Greenland, the one ever, but as you mentioned in in Africa as well. The fact that a lot of the ocean water has been transferred into is the facts things like ocean. Currents Young's, it affects the water. In the atmosphere as well. So it has a distinct climatic change. Yeah. That's the only sages a guest the most the most obvious Miskin spit curious ramification of these these cycles, but they're all fluctuations earth's climate over not just recorded history. But but over the long history of civilization, and the Sahara desert used to be released grasslands, the this cave paintings in what is now wind blown sand. And sorry brought paintings that clearly to pay like crocodiles gazelle. And so this horrid dry out. It was green and it became our it. Like it is today, I'm one I just what might have been the main factor for driving the emergence of civilization in ancient Egypt along the Nile valley was essentially climate refugees getting out of the Saharan regions it dried out and that driving up kind of population density and enforcing people to become a bit more intensive there. Culture living tethering in villages towns than the of ODI city. So it was probably a climate change climate shifted driven by these mind, which cycles that caused us to civilize as again as people's an moving on a bit too. We do start to develop agriculture particularly start to settle down in cities. This starts to happen. Particularly along an area called the fertile crescent massive patina, and that again sort of geographically is in a particularly unique environment. Yes, this like redrew this map. So all of the figures all of the pictures and origins, mostly kind of maps and kind of Katagara I've done myself spent thought too long list walking out learning how to use the software to create my own maps different data sets wants to show. I'm one of the maps I show is map of of the world with the the boundaries between the tectonic plates, basically cracks earth's crust. These fractures. And this really strong correlation. Just leaps out of renewal of that map and show the points of origin of some the early civilizations around the world, and they are all clustered along these plate boundaries. And the question is plate boundaries rubbish places to be there that they that's what the volcanoes all the volcano and under earthquakes shake. So why would the early civilizations attracted them as it were? One of the answers is clearly Kurtz, mashed potato the land between the rivers between the Tigers new free. Teas and that entire region is very full of lovely fertile silty. Soil is Louisville's sold a posited by those by those revisits inroads roads up by the mountains to the north. And what creates that region? Aspartame? Here is the the block of Arabia is on its own plate is Tony played as being she swinging away pivoting away from Africa and recently in geological terms recently slammed into the bottom half of Eurasia crumple up Zagros mountain ranges. And so when you've got this great big heavy mountain range, the cross the ground long-sighted sags down a bit. And that's where the river flows. That's the silt and sediments deposited. And that's what makes this lovely rich region. That makes agriculture easy. So massive Tameer is a tectonic trough and then humans. I down there in origins of cities and also in the Indus valley, which is basically exactly the same setting. But in the Foot's, then the feet of of the Malays mount I wanna carry on talking about early June. But before we do just a couple of other things occurred when the ice was melting from the from the last great, I say to particularly I wanted to talk about the the land bridge that basically occurred between existed between the UK and. Channel came friends will happen there. Yes. This Troy tooth route origins is we've together these threats of science and geology in an earth and earth sciences with history, and what happened in human story. And why and one of the main stories will ask because we're living in Britain. But but for European history is a whole is you have continental Europe. But then this island of Britain which being important through history because in many periods of European history is being this oil and fortress, which was stopped. Anyone consolidating empire are across Europe. So Hitler was unable to invade Britain and can win the war in Europe before that it was a Spanish before I was going of the French. And the question is why was Britain and Ireland them because looking geology we used to be linked like Siamese twins like oh, join twins to Europe by. What's known as the Wales Artois antique line? So the the white cliffs of Dover, basic, stump left behind when this great big bridge of rock was road away was washed away in an catastrophic mega flood. So some of the words I just love when I was coming crossing researching the origins and mega flood was one of my favorites. And this great bake huge flood of of water for Rapley road to the way that that block of rock. There was Canadian US at Europe. And what happened is that during an ice age, not the most recently age, but in fact, one about four or five ice age cycles ago about half a million years in the past two great sheets of ice met each other of what is now the north seeing trapped this great big lake of Meltwater, which conversed is buying essentially. And this Toya thing emptied and in the blink of an eye, and then wrote it away. That the Dover straits. So again, it's the ice age and one of the effects they'll say each created Britain's Nyland, and therefore that rich into play European history of Britain is an island and the rest of continental Europe. We know that because of the basically the bottom of the. This is I mean, you can you can go to the big broker fee of of origins and look up the paper cited an looking Google Scholar, and there's been some beautiful papers. And last couple of years where they've taken soon requirements on boats and got these incredibly high resolution pictures of what see all looks like an English channel Moshe as the French would call it and like clear as day Thorpe, these great big valleys, gouge on the rock by this mega flyer through the plunge pools by these enormous waterfalls have been plunging over of the land bridges, first roading, and these kind of islands of being road into almost streamline shapes vast islands Rudin streamlined shapes by the mega flood. So since the last eight is ages store sea levels of risen again. And it's now a drown landscape is now underwater, but you can really clearly see where that mega flooded cost her to create. Us as an island. I'm now any to them took its lowest don't now, and we took it about his latest book origins. How the Maida's and let me about to to coach and white across the world boasts simultaneously, and you know, as far as simultaneously works. History. People started to settle down and start to grow crops and I've seen in in the far east. It was rice and in man. In america. It was called. But in your Asia around that that's question. The list of crops is endless again, you know. What was it? What was unique about that area? That meant were there were so many grasses that were basically developed into so think not in a selfish is something that's worth kind of lingering on for just a second that all of humanity to all of our history. All kind of history civilizations. We basically fed ourselves on three main crops three Staples maze in the Americas weet across Eurasia and Bryson in the east and all of those staple crops, cereals auspey. She's of gross. So you me everyone else alive today everyone throughout history, basically fed themselves on grass just the same way, the sheep goats or cows and keep on partially due. And the reason we have chosen to Ekran, domesticated. Those wall species is ecologically. Grow species. The live. Fasten Diana grew quickly, the dump all the energy they can absorb sunlight instead grain, which which botanically fruit. They put over energy into these little dollops of grain, which the rice, although the sweet corn, which then is very easy for harvest and store and then come back Delaitre. So we've we've kind of hacked the biological reproduction mechanism of grow species to feed ourselves, and then found all these civilizations through history. One of the main distinctions between people living in Eurasian people living in the Americas, which then had huge knock-on effects throughout the throughout history. Was that just through chance Eurasia seems to had a wide range of cereal crops of these Crosby. She's at could have been domesticated compared to the Americas. And also that you raise your as largely in an east-west constant. So it's easy to move things across the same line of last year without it in. Counting different climate. So rights can be spread weeks spread across Eurasia, whereas America's moving maze. Other crops north of south along the converse? Chlorination the as much harder and diamonds pointed this out on his cracking book. Jim still that simple fact, just the orientation of the consonants when the soup constant Panji broke apart has had huge implications through the passage of history. I wanted to talk about the book about the domestication of animals, and you know, obviously from the hunter gatherers start Detaille live alongside dogs and two of Asli the the animals that we both domesticate for food for me. But also Milkin Ulan things. But I to talk about particularly about human beings graduate as we spread our on again, another great word mega-fauna. It is. It is another good. It's all the mega words. Yes. So we mentioned already about how it was the last ice age in the low sea levels. Naval us to to spread around the world in particular Mayes into a stray and the Americas. I'm looking at the fossils looking at the story. This in kind of kept in in the rocks in most cases, a Sooners human rock tub turned up the mega-fauna just disappeared that they died out. And what we think could happened is that humans just got three very good at hunting in Africa hunter-gatherers, and then spreading out when the megaphone I said kind of large species that that previously had no natural predators when we turned up with stone, tools and spares the megaphone. It's didn't know what to do that that new survivals rational evolutionary reason to to fair humans and essentially hunted them into extinction. So in a sense. This was an early warning of kind of the human dominion that we wiped out of mega-fauna to eat, and we've now developed more more sophisticated tools, more and more sophisticated technologies. And we're now marshalling the kind of energy resources and natural sources, the planet to such an extent that would changing environment to the whole world people familiar with global warming and and things like that. But that whole process started thousands of years ago is we I call is in world and hunting stuff to extinction. I wonder whether the Himalayas and most people know how relatively yoga Himalayas ranges, and this is caused by. What is now India crashing to crashing again is not quite the right word. But you know, very, very very very crashing bitten Austin steamroller into the supercontinent, and basically pushing out that that mountain range, and that has an effect, obviously, climactic -ly monsoons and things and. Obviously linked to that as well is is how vital that Tibetan plateau is basically to water just the water supply of anti continent. Yes. So it's like a big question because it has lots of things that link into each other. And that that was the main thing trying to get across with origins, all these deep connections lying beneath the surface that that link would have thought he could related topics and in history in the modern world and then find the working title for the book was writing was deep connections and one of the interesting points. There was today we've kind of modern geopolitics, why is it that China castle much about Tabet and the whole can human rights questions is the Dalai Lama living in exile. But was very very simple reason coming down to the landscape of the earth as to why China cares about that. And it's because the Tabet and. Toes, very high region of land I'm associated with the Himalayas and then crumpling of Indians Rasiah is referred to as the third pole of the planet that there's a lot of ice on the north and south poles. There's a great deal of ice on the to Batum plateau as well on that melts and feeds ten of the largest rivers around the world. So in a sense, China casbah to bet because it cares about control of water and particularly in world climate change when rainfall puns against shifting cultural become a bit less certain you want to be able to control those fundamental factors that support your cities and be able to grow food for yourself. I wanted to the Mediterranean and you describe in the book as being particularly tectonically interest. Yeah. As a place and actually just look at a lot of the maps that you have you said that you've that you've draw whether it's like, you know, the continental drift maps or map showing like the extensive. Of the lowest levels of dementia. Always seems to be roughly the Mediterranean as we know it now, what's so special about that area. The mediterranean. Interesting is essentially just a puddle amid puddle leftover from what was once a vast ocean called the techies and since the break-up of the last supercontinent Panja, and then the kind of reshuffling of the consonance the techies is steadily shrunken disappeared as Africa raced forward up into Eurasia again. And the metro news is all this left of this once vast ocean now and the Mediterranean been the the crucible the Coldren for a huge number of cultures through history of the Greeks Romans, and and and I know wins and all these different cultures that we learn about in ancient history. But curiously most of those cultures at all. All operate. They're all active in the northern coastlines the Mediterranean if you just look at last up Google earth. Now, look at the entrance this roughly of oval shape, see, and it's incredibly intricate and detailed on the northern coastline around the grease and the gene I'm whereas the African coastline the southern coastlines on the Lippman trainees comes be boring person. So that this link between those two two things that the the activity of cultures and civilizations was dependent on having natural harbours and inlets because maritime activities very easy way of trading and moving things around whereas the north African coast is playing doesn't have many harbors for civilizations riot on. And what's created that distinction is at twenty reality that is Africa moving north minks doctored beneath Rasiah, so the northern mentioning coast as this submerge drowned landscape of Val. He's giving Greek harbours and inlets was the northern African coast on is being pushed down as straight and flat. So I love that. It's this really deep connection between content of collision and plate tectonics created a difference in landscapes in two very nearby regions, which had a huge effect on on awesome on all civilizations. And inositol. And of course, look about something you mentioned in in the first half the north side of the Mediterranean is where they're still volcanoes. Yeah. Exactly. That's that's way, you know, mountain and all the other active. Okay knows in EuroPol. Today's is Ron northern coastline of the Mediterranean, and that's basically the top of Africa. That's melted. Deepen inter of the earth bubble backup surface and kind of book out as Multan raucous as the Makmur of volcanic eruption, the ideal place for those early civilizations. The minority leader Romans or whatever. But it's also. Those civilize Asians bore the brunt of Pompeii or whatever. Yeah. Exactly. So that that's continental collision is also what made available a lot of vital match resources such as copper and sing for the bronze. You wanna make bronze for simple, tools, and an an swords you need and copper and tin and copper is produced by hydrothermal vents in the seafloor. And then that's where it gets concentrated. So it was that continental collision and the disappearance of this Tatt. He's open that we mentioned earlier the made copper vailable. For bronze age civilizations. Let my no one's in mentoring. One of the thing before we finish. And I just wanted to talk about the importance of wind. Yeah. So we've mentioned again in in the fest that, you know, the changing climate, obviously has in the facts, the different raising of the sea level has an effect on things like the Gulfstream sort of ocean current as well, and again part of that is weather systems that go all the way around the and tell us about how that basically, you know, what I able global trade. Yes. Actually, my favorite chapter from the whole of the book when I was researching and writing it was this one about that deep link between these fundamental as the circulation patterns earth's atmosphere to how that creates these alternating bands prevailing winds round the world and the trade winds the west lease, and then how that again over hundreds of years dictate the patterns of expiration and trade, and then ultimately, European empire-building and the beginnings of globalization, and in the modern world the grou- to that. At that all comes down. Just the way the atmosphere happens to turn over because the equator is warmer than the polls. And the fact that the earth is spinning get Coriolis forces that can bend those winds particular directions. And when the European sailors I gonna reaching out into lamb -tic, and with Portuguese and Spanish, and then later, the French Darshan in British there, essentially piecing together, these little pieces of the jigsaw puzzle. Averts winds working out wait only to go to the wind will blow in the direction. I wanna go to reach. What have now discovered as is merica or how can I get round the southern tip of Africa to reach India and all the spices. They want to get involved that trait because a lot of money to be made in there. So this deep link between the just the atmosphere of the earth and the wind patterns and the sheep of the world like why is California so important and economically rich today. May is because that's where you reach and galleon if you leave China and try to cross the Pacific, you know, that that's one hundred years of history in that simple fact, so I'll be talking to Louis dot now we've been talking about his new book origins, how earth Mader's which is out now in the UK from Bodley head Louis. Thank you so much for coming in and sharing it with us. Thank you. This episode of little atoms whose produced him presented by me nail. Denny edited by sky Redman and was first broadcast on measurements. One. I four point four FM Latham's is supported by eighty nine up and hosted by cast if you enjoyed the show, please do subscribe raters on Junes and even tell a friend. Thanks for listening.

Americas Africa Eurasia Europe east Africa China Mediterranean Africa Denny Asia Louis dot Britain India Mehta university of Westminster New Scientist ABC Clem
Memories of Dr. Martens, as distinctive footwear hits London Stock Exchange

The Current

15:36 min | 2 months ago

Memories of Dr. Martens, as distinctive footwear hits London Stock Exchange

"Hi damon fareless host of hunting warhead from. Cbc podcasts in. The norwegian newspaper fiji hunting. Warhead follows a global team of police and journalists says the attempt to dismantle a massive network of predators on the dark web winner of the grand prize for best investigative reporting the new york festivals and recommended by the guardian culture and the globe in mail. You can find hunting warhead on. Cbc listen or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a cbc podcast. Don't condone from. What is run. Your doctor martins on your feet. P towns in with a song called uniforms from nineteen eighty to back. Then you might have had the same uniform as pete. Wild hair ripped jeans braces suspenders. But if you weren't wearing a pair of doc martens were you really a- punk for kids of all generations the moment you i got your hands on the boots with yellow stitching is not a moment you tend to forget i bought them would have been somewhere around ninety. Two ninety three probably fourteen years old. Got them at a store down on queen street. No longer there and can't remember the name but ten whole cherry red docks with leases big yellow stitching. That's toronto city councillor. Mike layton remembering his first pair and those were more than just shoes like it was the style at the time. I had long hair or dirty number jacket and ripped jeans and like the docks were part of the outfit. And i had an older sister who had gone through a phase of life as well and so it was a right of passage from me pretty comfortable but i wouldn't say the most comfortable pair of shoes i ever owned But it there were a lot of different styles when had their own thing and there was a lot to choose from. I suppose that kind of added to the experience you've got to customize and pick up the pair that was a reflection of your personality lisa. Lotta sir the author of encyclopedia gothica and goth and punk style vlogger also remembers her docks so the great thing goes off martin for me that they were cool but they were also comfortable talks. You could just. You could wear them anywhere. And i did. And i would go on vacation backpacking. I didn't bring extra boots. I bought one pair of boots and at one point i was living in in mexico for six months. Just in my doc martens so going to the beach doc. Martens going up for dinner doc. Martens it was like you kind of felt ridiculous if the beach but hey you know it's punk rock seventy three years after they were first invented. You can now buy a piece of that aristotle success for yourself. The company went live on the london. Stock exchange this week yes stocks and docks which does not sound particularly punk rock. Maybe that's just me. Elizabeth mohawk is creative director and senior curator at the shoe museum in toronto. Andrew groves professor fashion design at the university of westminster in the uk. Good morning to you both. Get morning andrew. I think a lot of us remember the first pair of docs. I came into toronto as a teenager and Went in some wild store and came out with a pair of boots that i thought i'd wear for the rest of my life. Do you remember saving up your money and buying a pair of those boots. Yeah absolutely i think. They'll right the passage for everybody Mine was in the nineteen hundred and the time of scar and by madness and going up to kind of town to bypass from russia holtz. So that was pat twenty whole boots at the time. Twenty twenty twenty different. How long did it take you to lace up to twenty whole boots. They were a nightmare. I have to say about ten of us wanting to look amazing but not realizing what pay so. It probably used to about fifteen minutes to put on in the museum. Elizabeth are there dachshund the collection. There are there. we don't have a lot But we do have never ever representative paris. Yes representative paris. What do you think that they represent you know. I think that the represents overarching we sort of an idea of rebellion sometimes disenfranchisement and they obviously are linked to a larger historical moments. Be they punk. Grunge sort of has a moment with them Gos- a fashion makes a lot of use. And so they've they've had different moments but each of those moments. I think connects to ideas of rebellion. Although they did start out as just a you know a form of work shoes andrew. How much lors tied up in these shoes. You talked about madness. And the scott movement what is it that doc symbolize aside from a pair of boots that you have on your feet. Well i think they really interesting because i think the crown of the contradictions because you know originally designing was tasty shoe for please postman very bark and cloth but then they're also actually rebellious as well and and you know there'd be more upon and the far-right Only looking but suckley erotic. So i think i think it's one of those objects that you can transform by the wear and they're to choose the very rare and like you were saying earlier you know to hear that other people very much remember time. They bought them. they are transformative. Go into object. And i think that having talked to him how transformative what happens when you put the boots on. Who do you become. i think. Is that the idea that you know putting those all amounting especially when you can kill a teenager. You're going to become another with that. It's going to give you all sorts of things you know so they claim to ideas of masculinity aggressors rebellious sore things but as a teenager growing up you see youth coach and subculture represent whichever one of the moment is usually that's malkin's that comes along with them elizabeth. They've also had an entered talks about aggression. They've had negative connotations associated various points in their history with skinhead movements with racist movements as well. How did that develop that link You know when the doc martin brand is brought over to england They get sort of adopted by the mod's matz break into multiple different groups. Some of them are very welcoming and inclusive in some are increasingly nationalistic. It's so because the itself becomes sort of a linked to ideas of the british working class. skinheads begin to use them as a uniform of both masculine masculinity the working class and british nationalism and so for the very fringe elements of of that group. They become the the sort of neo. Nazi skinheads and so that's really weird. That association begins. Do they still have that association today. Andrew i remember when i got my boots i mean part of it was you had to do this on the street. Decoding of who had different kinds of boots and in particular who had different colors of laces and there are certain laces that people believed meant certain things the boots that they were wearing. Is that still the same thing now andrew. Well it's two points in fact uniform so you can see anything that gets adopted and becomes uniform if you can look the proud boys and how they've adopted the ferry sheriff and finally it's a scary. Lots of people dressed the same because of connotation have also about myth or semi myth comes through. You know these. I coach ideas that certain races means certain things which going it's interesting because they mean different things maybe to straight community than to take community nothing that naming can be softened. He played with and some of the arkan's mythology all my stuff comes from it then becomes true. How elizabeth do docs move from being a symbol of anti fashion to something. That's very fashionable to something. That's on stock market and a company. That's worth something like five billion dollars you know. I think that in ninety six didn't you there. Reach begins to broaden and they kind of become a general statement about youthful rebellion. They begin to distance themselves from these more complicated political statements. And and and then you know today you see doc martens doing love collaborations. Marc jacobs of course famously. Put them on the runway and the nine elevating the high fashion platform. And i think one of the things that's interesting about this Focus on collaborations right. It's linked to what's happening within sneakers secret culture. The risk i think Is that if doc. Martens are used broadly now to add kind of aggressive statement to an otherwise innocuous fashion statement What happens win doc. Martens becomes so connected to ideas of high fashion that that currency has lost. And so you know. I've talked to about the converse. all star. Which is unchanging in its form came out in nineteen seventeen and it's still in its in. Its its usefulness is the fact that it is unchanging and it can be used kind of as anti fashion statement. And doc martin's i think is going to interesting moment. Where which way will it go. It will lose. Its currency as footwear of rebellion. If it treads down this road too far i mean i think those of us of a certain vintage. We love to look in the river mirror and say oh it was way better back then Or the meant more back then and those boots were something. Is there anything i mean. Maybe it's the converse. But is there anything and i asked this to you as a shoe historian in some ways that represents that sense of rebellion that when you put those shoes or those boots on it meant the same as it did when you put the docs on back in the eighties and the nineties. I mean that history isn't a race that history is still there and i think that That thrill is still related right But were also seeing particularly with gen z like a a stout bratz dolls. Which typically this. This look is it quote unquote. Sassy looks lectures. Heavy platform footwear. That sorta risks on doc martens and at so. I think that right now. A lot of younger people interested in fashion are looking back towards that moment. When the doc martin itself started to or its meaning started to really splinter where it gets used by marc jacobs where it gets up somewhat a feature of of Grunge where it still have. This punk legacy where the gothic lead look incorporates it because it's like a nineteenth century up and so i think that i'm doug martin's are having a bit of moment later those complexities from twenty years ago. Who do you see. You live in manchester andrew. Who do you see on the streets of manchester wearing docs these days. What sort of everyone. Because i think they've become the boot of the working class historical. So you know just people that don't really care about what they wear and also high fashion. So i think you know. It's very few brands that have to do that. So you say is managed to do that or maybe rayban sunglasses you come the iconic brand that everyone whereas you know. It's it's one of the reasons that being able to float themselves from the stock stock market. Because they have a meaning to everyone so therefore everyone feels they have and in the past investment even if he's not financial investment into the brand does part of you cringe when The boots that you used to love. Maybe you still love them when you see them floated on the stock market. Is you say no. Because i kind of these brands ultimately due to the to the people the way whatever happens to that you'll company that owns the riots and all of that bad. She belong to the people and it's up to the people also need to decide whether they still have that meaning or not if they if they still have that cultural meaning that i think that's fine and i think you know brands very taff. We've bought they do so. I think you know they're always thinking about how do any of those decisions saying those politics ships. They might be doing how much they reflect that core customers as well because they don't want to push them too far because they knew they were going to lose those core customers. Do you have any pairs left again. I think i've got to free pads. Still got the old ones. I wear out because they moult years. So they're very comfortable. Got pad you. Can you can punish them. They look good with the suit. So i i think that always good to be wearing so i can't see what happens. I can't see them going out of fashion roy anti fascist remain with us. You know sixty years enter. It's great to talk to you but thank you very much. Thank you and elizabeth thank you for the historical perspective on this. I love it thanks. Absolutely elizabeth mohawk is the creative director for the battery museum in toronto. Andrew groves is professor of fashion at the university of westminster in the united kingdom. We heard earlier from toronto city. Councillor mike layton remembering the day he bought his first pair of docs. he also remembers the day. He said goodbye. To those boots there are alternate. Demise is kind of a fun story. Because i was I was a camp counselor up at the nature science camp and somewhat northern ontario and they were pretty worn out by that stage. Ninety six and kiss was coming back as a as a big musical. Big rock and and A group of councillors decided we were gonna put on an epic lip sync. Get where we dressed up like kiss. And i turn the boots with using duct tape. I into a pair of platform shoes glued and taped on giant visa would underneath and brocton this platform shoes to a crowd of six to fifteen year olds while lip synching rock and roll all night. So they they ended well perhaps different style of music and they entered world in But they they they exited. They exited my world. Well we would love to hear from you. As elizabeth was hinting at shoes and boots mean. More than just things you wear on your feet. There is a cultural history and cultural baggage. That comes with them. Do you still have a pair of socks holes. What color laces do you remember. Buying your first pair of saving up money. And perhaps as i did heading into the big city from the country being freaked out by the people that i saw in the stores to buy the boots that helped define in some ways You wanted to be. We would love to hear your stories of doc. Martens tweet us at the currency or send us an e mail. The current at cbc dot ca for more cbc podcasts. Go to cbc dot ca slash podcasts.

doc martens Martens damon fareless Andrew groves Mike layton Cbc Lotta sir Elizabeth mohawk andrew pat twenty suckley toronto city toronto university of westminster shoe museum paris fiji elizabeth doc martin
Thursday 14 March

Monocle 24: The Globalist

58:47 min | 2 years ago

Thursday 14 March

"You're listening to the globalist. I broke on the fourteenth of March two thousand and nineteen on monocle twenty four the globalist in association with ups. Hello. This is the globalist coming to you live from the Dory. House in London. I'm Georgina Godwin coming up. French president Emmanuel Macron is in east Africa. But is the soft power neo-colonialism or push to assert global thority? Whilst his troubles continue at home pandemonium in the British parliament as some Theresa May's own cabinet ministers. Joined the vote against her version of Brexit. We asked what's next and who's in charge. Plus, we still see the independence acting as talent scouts for the risk averse mainstream industry. The international Booker prize announces a shortlist of thirteen an unusually they mostly come from small independent publishes. What does this mean for the industry, and we'll be at nyp him the world world's largest international property fair in Cannes with business papers to that's the head right here on the globalist live from London. French president Emmanuel Macron is currently undertaking three day trip to if you pick Kenya and Djibouti in a bid to build stronger ties with east Africa. Amongst is objectives unveiled this week has been pledged to invest two point five billion euros in startups and small businesses, but it's not all soft power the trip arrives at a time. When FRANZ is also deepening its military commitments across the continent and domestically. The French president is still recovering from a bruising few months in Paris facing down mass protests from the yellow vests movement. So what is Michael really hoping to show to the world during this visit which owned in the studio by Winston monitoring of the Africa media center at the university of Westminster and Florence Biedermann who is air p in London bureau chief Florence Tabuchi was a French colony until nineteen seventy seven Micron gave a speech there on Tuesday in which he warned that the sovereignty of African countries is at risk from China's increasing economic presence. He said I wouldn't want to new generation of. International investments to encroach on our historical partners sovereignty or weaken their economies that sounds suspiciously. Like, keep your hands off for colony g think that's the case is this new round of investment Neo colonialism just up as as input ni-. I think it's it's it's behind us. Nah. I mean, the current was decanes ago and McCoy's also visiting Kenya. An idiopathic which ran not former French currently. So what is more remarkable in the stories that he's visiting for the first time Kenya? No, no, pre French president visited this country before. So which means you're really put an accent on the fact that France has to be present in in this part of Africa Anglo of Franco speaking. And of course, the idea behind this is to kind of have a presence to to answer to China's earn. Let's say invasive like presence, heavy investments and also China just opened a military bases. Also in Djibouti. So that's more finance to China. Than any kind of colonialism. I would say, and he's also looking or offering to those country a kind of what she calls new partnership compared with what China is doing China's is lending money. So the spin country can quickly, and that's what happened with Ritchie be heavily invested over China's. So he he wants to for another approach to to to to this area. I mean Winston traditionally the way that colonialism has worked in the way that it differs from from China is that China's not asking for anything. In return is my con- insisting on anything does he want to sign up to any kind of human rights or or climate change? Or is this just straight investment for for no particular humanitarian, political return morning Georgian? I I think it's a very interesting question. France is been accused of you know, mandating what they call, you know, Frank funk creek afric-, which is in Neo colonial network. You know with former colonies, and it is. Seen some of its leaders were land and others before saying that they should be changed this, but how ever Macron's intentions to ten full-page and move away from, you know, the kind of old France, which is interfering in Africa hasn't stopped DC's comes in the background of, you know, fringe military involvement across west Africa in countries like where they are actually pumping last month in February to show up, you know, the presidents of interest, Debbie, so this investment should be seen in the context where France is having involvement in the military site. But it's also now trying to tag it non-french areas like Kenya. And topiary with the investment is trying to compete with China as you say, but China has made massive investments in the area. So what France is offering in the background of say. The problems that happening in France. It's not much, but it's all coming investment for countries. Like kenya? We are seeking today. Diversify the investment day of over exposure to China, and they are willing to get you know, other investors to come in. But the messages that are coming from Kenyans on Twitter and others. They're saying, please, don't get more lawn. We are you know, we have Bora their lottery can't pay it back in. So. You mentioned Japan. And of course, we know there's a big Chinese military presence there America's seems to be pulling out. Why is gypsy? So important France. It's also very important. Now, it has always been a base for France like forty kittens z kids, and it has its biggest military base in Africa, Angie GBD's. So it's kind of a traditional presence strategy prisons, but it's also very important for China. Because it's kind of in the middle of the road of this big big new silk road project. So that's why they open this base. I it's important because it's in the ocean engine, it's strategic military base. And that's why so many other countries are based there. So it it's not only important for France. It's a strategy. Winston as he said, he's also visiting canyon easier pure, neither of those were French colonies ever is this a bit in the case of Kenya to increase on British interests. Which is traditionally, of course, being the the largest economic partner, and of course, the former colonial master. I think it can also be seen in the I think the economists that did not go this month, which is in the new scramble for Africa. It can also be seen in the context where countries are trying to position themselves in Africa. There's a lot of potential with resources and Yana population. And these countries that is targeting it's not accidental. These are countries with young reformist leaders and Macron says these leaders like, you know, president Abby Topi our president who has Petit's generation people can make changes. But the problem is the Modell of investments should be something that brings the Rio, you know, change within Africa, not just the usual. Oh, McCain tower, kind of said manufacturing happens in Europe and commodities us, all the you know Africa. So in in Kenya. For example, is staying that the they'll will be manufacturing assembling of cars in in in Kenya. And this is something that Kenyans love because they will be employment, but these should be and also Ray will project will create a lot of potential for for for the country for Kenya. For utopia. He wants to restore Asian wake some cultural, you know, restriction of all day. Interesting because he also wants to help if you build a navy that in promises of air cooperation joint operations opportunity for training and equipped equipment purchases. What's behind the military move to an in if Europe here, I think he's trying to to to to help and support the country because you know, I mean, the the navy so smart, I think they have to to. Something like that. So it's not I wouldn't say it's the men military aspect in the visit. But definitely he is ready. I think he presented for someone ready to consider all the request of European also mention like this cultural aspect like he's ready fron seasons ready to help like to to restore all the churches in in which is a very touristic area. So that's all these different aspects of this different beaks to to to show that you are different kind of partner than China would be that's that's the main reason of this diversifying deal. Winston you made mention of child, which of course, serves as the headquarters of France's counter jihadists mission in five former colonies, it has the strongest army in the region. It's key to France's anti-terrorism mission. Why is the focused now on east Africa instead of France's existing center of operations? I think. What he wants to do is to move away from problems with former French speaking countries like at one, and but in Chad is implicated, but in Rwanda, for example has been invited to the next anniversary. So he's trying to create, you know, some people are saying, a dive, ancient division of attention whereby, you know, the franchise military involvement is deepening in Charleston, Molly and other places. But at the same time he wants to show, you know, but he's willing to shift gender from. You know, this quasi has been having with Rwanda, for example to sh- to other areas away can create much more women than by building. Showcase, you know projects like the railroad project plan for king. It's quite, you know, going to be high profile visible kind of projects between this airport in the city, the cultural projects there also. High-profile kind of projects if you pose it off paths people can see France in different lights. So he's trying to paint a different image, but can eat fool attend the page can show, you know, different face of France in Africa, given also squabbles between France and Italy Beck in Europe, where Italy Italian officials have been accusing France of being, you know, colonial power again in Africa. And so he's trying to show, you know, some difference. I mean, it's it's Winston, right? Can can Macron turn the pages this is bid to to establish himself as a world leader turn the page. I mean, if he's turning the page of the current history of France in Africa. This is what French prison had been pretending. They are doing since Kate like this is the end of our freak. But but there is really there is really a change with. I mean, a change in the sense that they're less close links than before with those country for two reasons because. Is want to be involved in that way amount? And also because there are other actress prison China who comes to help it cetera. Which did you it's France influence in any case. So the yes, there is different of accent. But but I mean, France, we still want to to to to go on with this sphere of influence, which it has with the French speaking countries. Of course, I mean every country would we tend to do that you have this connections, which you want to use to establish military bases to find against Islamist. You you use those links, but the way they are used now, I think it's less than less to me. And he's less with my to the point that the president even complained recently. And that's one of the reason I think my Congo's and visit the country that they seem less and less relevant for France. It was a bit shocked by that. So there is a difference like, but it's also probably time, you know, I mean with the time relations evolved in any case, and they're. Also, I think a will Winston how has the whole visit been received in east Africa. What's the media's saying, and and can Macken change the historical narrative? I think the media been one bit surprised that is coming to Kenya fifty friendly ever to come to the country, but underneath this a real, you know, questioning of what are the conditions of the French investments they going to come and bomb and protect the investment that they are doing in other African countries. And they're also thinking what what is you know, what what does it do for the rest of, you know, the the data, you know, better than that the country's already face. Look at Djibouti is an extent on debt to China of one point three billion. This is whatever friends we do may eight that it so there's a lot of worry about the mountain in African countries. Countries are unable to pay this overexposure. What does it do to this rent of the countries? Winston. Thank you very much. Indeed. That's when some money from the university of Westminster and FRANZ Peterman from f peop-, here's what else we keeping an eye on today. British MP's will later votes on whether to us the European Union for permission to delay. Brexit beyond the scheduled departure at the end of the month. This comes after lawmakers voted to reject leaving the EU without a deal under any circumstances. Prime Minister Theresa may could also make it third attempt to getting her withdrawal deal passive parliament in the coming days. The EU says it's prepared for Britain to leave with or without a deal. More on that story in a moment. The Republican controlled senators to and Louis military support for the Saudi led coalition war in Yemen. It's a rebuke for tunnel. Donald Trump's support of Saudi Arabia and its leadership, but the president has vowed to veto the Bill should pass through the democrat led house. The war in Yemen has created the world's worst humanitarian crisis and Malaysia's. Attorney general has rejected a call from Vietnam to release a woman accused of the murder of Kim Jong nam the half brother of North Korea's leader earlier this week coach. Accused Indonesian woman was released after a request from Indonesia. The two women were charged with killing Kim Jong-Nam by smearing nerve agent on his face at Kuala Lumpur airport in two thousand seventeen the trial is set to resume next month. This is the globalist. Stay tuned. The British parliament voted last night by a narrow margin of three hundred and twenty one thousand two hundred and seventy eight the Britain will not leave the EU without an agreement, but Theresa May still not ditching her deal despite it being rejected twice by the house, the malt house compromise, which would have delayed Brexit until the twenty. Second of may was also rejected Kara Walker is a political analyst and former BBC political correspondent, and she's on the line to explain it to us if anybody can carefully gets warm, we'll complicated by the day. So I what does this mean in practical terms article fifty will have to be extended will Joe Gina complicated and chaotic there were extrordinary scenes in the houses of parliament last night as once again, the prime minister suffered yet, another defeat in the Commons. But yes, it is looking increasingly likely that there will be a delay to Britain's Depa. Archer from the European Union. What happened last night was that the prime minister had put down a Kathleen wooded motion, which essentially said that while the parliament didn't want to leave without a deal, the default legal position was that the u k still would leave or March the twenty ninth. But that was changed to a flat rejection of a no deal Brexit when a separate amendment went through the prime minister, then came back to the house and said that today tonight, she will be putting down another motion. I've just been reading through it essentially, it says that MP's will have a choice they can either. Yes. Agree to a deal the same one that they have rejected comprehensively twice now. And then have a short delay until June. Or they must face up to the possibility that because. Because of the European elections in the summer, then if there is no deal on the table. There's no prospect of a whole new round of negotiations before those European elections than the UK will have to face up to a much longer delay of a year or possibly even two years. Now, there appears to be a total breakdown in discipline within the conservative party. I mean, although this was a free vote. Nevertheless, it was killed what the party wanted. This was ignored by four cabinet ministers us, Theresa May lost all authority, and is the conservative party splintering beyond repair. Yes. There is a complete breakdown of discipline within the conservative party and the government the prime minister has lost control of events as she struggles. Horsely to try to find some way through what happened was that? The government had said there would be a free vote on the prime minister's motion on the. Original motion. But when that was changed when the government lost an earlier vote the government suddenly decided to try and impose what it calls the three line whip. That is the strictest order to its MP's and ministers not to vote for the changed motion. We then saw with thirteen ministers abstaining some of them as you mentioned, including cabinet ministers. And that meant that that the governments will was defied the prime minister suffered another defeat. There is absolute fury, particularly amongst Brexit. Tears today or those cabinet, ministers and other ministers who defied the government's instruction. There are calls for them to resign or to be sacked. One more junior government minister, Sarah Newton who did vote against the motion. She has resigned because she felt that that was the right thing for her to do. But there is I have to say really, unprecedented chaos and confusion about the cause a head fury at between different wings of the conservative party anger at the prime minister. And frankly, bewilderment that what the prime minister is still doing no sense of changing course whatsoever. She is still clinging grimly to her deal showing every sign of trying to bring it back for third attempt next week. Now, Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the labour party is called for an election for the second day in a row, how likely is that? Well, he's called for an election. But what he has not done is actually moved a vote of no confidence which could bring one about. But I have to say that that is also looking more likely there are now some ardent Brexit is who are so furious at the way that this is being handled. Pulled so concerned about the prospect that Brexit could be not just delayed, but ultimately pulled off the table altogether. If it's delayed for long enough, then maneuver to perhaps have another referendum that they are now considering whether if the opposition leader, Jeremy Corbyn called another vote of no-confidence, they could actually vote with the opposition to bring down their own government. Now that would be a pretty drastic measure. But you know, we are in such an extraordinary period in our politics that does now seem a distinct possibility finally this Brussels make all of this. Well, the sounds that we've been hearing so far have been of relief from the European side because they think the prospect of the UK leaving without a deal have been taken off the table. That is something that they were concerned about. Because they felt that it would do damage to other parts of the European Union as well as to the UK, but they are simply now waiting for the UK to decide what it wants to do what they are very clear about is that although if the UK were to ask for a short extension, maybe up until may the twenty third when the process of the European election start to get underway. That is something that they could countenance, particularly if if it was an extension for a reason if an agreement had been reached, and it was a question of getting legislation through the house. They would then accept that. But they do not want a whole series of rolling extensions which also destabilizing to the European Union. And Furthermore, they're making it clear that if the UK has not left by may the twenty fourth then it will be required as a member of the European Union to. Eight in those e you elections, and that is something which neither the EU nor the U K wants, Carol. Thank you very much. Indeed. This of course is not the last time. We'll be looking at the story that was Carol. Buca. Maybe s has nine hundred investment analysts from over one hundred different. Nine hundred of the shop is maulings freshest thinkers in the world of finance today. No one this mall. The one no small help you contact us at UBS dot com. Yesterday. The man book international prize revealed the man book a dozen of thirteen novels in contention for the two thousand nineteen prize which celebrates the finest work of translated fiction from around the world. The prize is awarded every year for single book, which is translated into English and published in the UK, and I learned both novels and shoot story collections. Eligible authors and translators considered to be equally important with the fifty thousand prize money being split between them the judges considered one hundred eight books this year, most of the books came from independent publishes. Well, I caught up with one of the judges Maureen freely at the London book fair. Yes today to discuss this. We just did our job, and we put together the thirteen books that we thought were most interesting. Why people fuss naked Baio choices? I think that it's partly. Really that we somehow managed without design to have writers from twelve different countries out of thirteen books. So that's one thing and that happened all by itself. And another thing that happened all by itself is for us from our point of view is that almost all of the books are from independent publishers. And so that's quite amazing because it's very unusual for small independent publishes to get a look-in on price. Lists. When I judge the predecessor of the independent Booker that's foreign fiction prize. And that would have been about twelve years ago thirteen years ago. It was not the case. And I remember that we looked at our shortlist in some embarrassment to see that almost more than half of them were published by Christopher Michael host. And I think it was before he had his own imprint, but he was such a powerful force in promoting fiction and translation that it wouldn't have been a surprise. But which bitten passing because we were talking about the books, we weren't looking at publishes at all I in the years since I think when I was judging the foreign fiction prize back in the naughtiest bit notice the thing that was to be I opener for me was how interesting the new and growing independent sector was and as a novelist. I felt that they were collectively could collectively putting out more interesting books than they market driven marketing departments dominated main publishers at the time. So I started looking to them for company. And in fact, I went onto publish my own books and the independent sector. It is a very volatile sector very very part sector in which to survive. So there's been a lot of change in it. But I think that we still see the independence acting as talent scouts for the risk averse mainstream industry that is a good thing. But it's also a worrying thing because I think that the mainstream publishers ought to be looking in worse fiscal and ambitious way fiction in translation and not just the big blockbusters which. I think if you if I go back to the list and look at the books that we knocked off some of them were very very very very commercial. Now, I know that you chair of English pen, which is the writers human rights organization and a lot of the books from countries that have a troubled history in human rights. I think that is so although I wouldn't leave our own country out of that occasion. Especially not this week. It is true. It is also true that. Novelists can find ways through censorship around censorship and carry on a conversation writers, and readers and other parts of the world? So that's important. One of the themes that came out from all over the world from many different languages from the languages of countries that received political refugees, you had quite a few books on the legacy left to the children of those political refugees, and that is a new literature all on its own, and it's in so many different languages. So I'm so glad that these books are coming into English. They're beautifully translated. No two are like some are coming out of the different turbulent countries. Previously turban countries of Latin America coming out of France and Scandinavia and these books need to talk to each other. And I think through translation prize into Ingo. Wish where English is becoming the lingua franca for the moment until Chinese takes over that is the arena that allows for these writers to come to know each other finally, Maureen how important is the international Booker prize. The international Booker prize is becoming more and more important. I think now that funding has finished short for the future. I think that will go on I do feel that the foreign fiction prize predecessor did important work, but it was on a much lower budget and a much more study budget. But the Booker foundation is really really behind international writing and has worked for a hard to do research to show. What kind of impact were having on the market that's expensive work to do. They are doing it. And they are proving that there's a readership not just more readers. But more informed and open minded readers. So they are our best advocates now for those of us who right and translate and read international writing, and that was author translator and judge of the two thousand and nineteen international book prize Maureen freely. Let's continue with today's newspapers. Joining me in the studio is my favorite review. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to have failures, but any shaking parakeets he's deputy head of the US and the Americas Pergama CIA some house, Jake, we're gonna sell it with a Boeing as we know. Of course, there was this crush in Ethiopia on Sunday everybody on board. I think hundred fifty seven people killed it all comes down to one model of plane is the Boeing mucks eight in the max nine to also now in the crosshairs of the huge storm. So tell us the latest what happened was after the European air crash a few days ago, there were succession of countries and associations that you China Canada, who's grounded the Boeing seven thirty seven max eight and seven three seven max nine intil an investigation could be carried out because this is the same type of plane that crashed the lion air. A crash late last year and the FA held off. And there was a huge amount of criticism. Because of course, the Trump administration no stranger to conflicts of interest Boeing has given substantially Trump's inauguration. The current acting Defense Secretary of Boeing lobbyists, so whether or not there is any actual impropriety. There were certainly disobedient in appearance of impropriety that the FAA wasn't grounding. What could be a serious safety issue just for background? So the seven three seven max eight and nine are the newest versions of a plane that's been in service since nineteen sixty five so it's sensually very old design with new engines new avionics and the new engine because if you look old seven thirty seven the end into tiny these little furtive narrow tubes and the new under so big they have to be kind of flattened along the bottom to actually have ground clearance from the plane is on on the ground and that changes the plane center of gravity. The at changes the fundamental handling characteristics. They've also changed the materials from which the plane is built them lengthened detonate various other changes, not really foreseen in the original sketches from the sixties. And so there's a new software system that can override the pilot and change the attitude of the plane knows if it detects a stall there's not enough air coming over the wings to heap. It in flight, and this has caused apparently what's come out in the last day. Or so is that American pilots have been complaining that the plane was dropping its nose in an uncommanded fashion until they just turned off the system and the other problem is because this is a new version of the plane pilots don't have to recertify to fly. It. There's no, you know, when you if you if you certify seven thirty seven, and then you wanna fly the seven forty seven or an Airbus you have to go through a whole training course to make sure that you can save operate the aircraft because this is considered fundamentally the same aircraft. You don't have to do the same level of training to jump. So Boeing is now being used of not telling the pilots that this system existed, what its capabilities war and that obviously. It's very early for the UPS aircrash, but that's been pointed to by investigations rely on air crash. An and the initial indication suggests that the same problem may have cost Ethiopian plan to crown now, this is obviously a problem for aligns who use this plan Nowegian is say Norwegian shuttle said yesterday that it wants to seek compensation from the manufacturer for cost and lost revenue. This is going to really Hamma a Boeing, surely this is going to be very very bad for Boeing, not only in terms of airlines like Norwegian, which exclusively fly Boeing aircraft. But also for future orders because if you're an airline CEO, and you're deciding on the biggest investment, you could possibly make do I buy a fleet of Boeing airplanes or Airbus airplanes? And you're looking at two models two of the same model of brand new Boeing crashing in the last six months that is going to impact your decision lately. Let's go to well. Stay. Really in the US with manifold pull Manafort, Donald Trump's full McAlpine, chairman has been told he is a liar and a fraud and that he'll spin seven and a half years in prison. So Pullman afor was went through two separate trials one in Virginia and one in Washington DC, and he's been sentenced in both of them. The DC charges could have put him in jail for up to twenty four Virginia charges could have put him in jail for up to twenty four years. But the judge in that case who was clearly quite. Friendly to Manafort described as living in of otherwise blameless life, which is a bit of a stretch and only sentenced him to four and a half years. So then he was sentenced yesterday in the district of Columbia by judge who is much less enamored of him and appended some of a sentence. Some of the sentence will be served consecutively and some of it will be served concurrently. And the ultimate result. Is that Manafort who's almost seventy is going to spend the next seven and a half years in jail at least because what happened immediately afterwards was he was then charged with sixteen separate counts by New York state. The critical thing in New York state is that he cannot be pardoned by the president of the United States, which of course, is something that people have speculated a lot about I wonder how this is food Trump and his regime his administration. Given the manifesto was really only working on his election campaign for five months. Will he was only working? On his election campaign for five months. But by the same token Manafort is the most direct link in lot of ways to Russia to that big question of Russian collusion, and it's been established in these court cases that Manafort, for example, was giving detailed internal campaign. Polling data to all arcs who are very close to Putin. Now, whether that actually had sort of real affect on the Russian influence campaign and the election, I think remains to be seen. But the special counsel's office was clearly eager to get Manafort to cooperate. He did say at one point that he would and then reneged on it didn't leave his joint defense agreement with Trump and essentially lied to the special counsel's office, which is part of the reason why judge any Burma Jackson in the DC case was so angry at him because he had said that he would cooperate with the government lied, and then essentially got caught nother big court case in the US. And this is about wealthy parents who paged college Tillis about this twenty five million dollars bribery scheme. Yes. This is something that came out a couple of days ago, and the details are just staggering the top line was that involved to relatively famous Hollywood actors, but also a number of people looting, the the F T on page ten the the person that they lead with was the managing partner of a socially conscious investment fund, which he co led with Bano, and this is someone spending five hundred thousand dollars to literally bribe college admissions officials into letting his children into persis- universities. And I mean, part of the reason why this story is so compelling is that the sheer grubby -ness of it the paying people to sit in the testing center claiming to be the child. Faking photographs of high school kids high school kids being water polo players sport they've never actually played. But also that light that shines on the general grubbing of the US admission system, whatever on saying is that you know, if these very rich people had just made donations directly to the colleges their kids probably would have gotten in just as Grayson favorite, essentially. I mean, that's that's how would forever, isn't it? Build us a library. You get the place generally famously Jared Kushner, his dad donated two and a half million dollars to Harvard, and he got in the this is this is the kind of this is the kind of thing that I mean it like the old phrase the scandal is what's legal, but just seeing the inside of it. And these people who are by any meaningful definition part of liberal leat being willing to do things that well, I mean, the the FBI the Justice department is charging them with bribery. I mean, it is straight up illegal. What they did. I think. China spotlight on how screwed up the whole system is is it an eagle to kill seagulls. Turns out it is a carding to a magistrate's court in this country, which convicted a sixty four year old man of killing seagull after it tried to steal his chips while he was on a trip to the seaside. It's a very short article here on page eight of the telegraph get through the six pages of we might not get Brexit after all. From from the telegraph. But got two men killed chip stealing call and the thing that struck me as from the fact that I didn't realize goals or protected by the wildlife and countryside act of nineteen Eighty-one. But also that his fine. In addition to the curfew included, a seventy and eighty five pound victim, surcharge paid. I assume to the family of the gull they buy eighty five one pound boxes of chip from McDonald's and leave them out for the local goals. I'm just completely mystified. He the go by its leg and smashed it into a wound says, which is horrible, and he did it in front of children, which is doubly horrible. But it just the the detail. It's one of these things where you know. Yes. That is rightly illegal, but the details of sort of how it works its way into the legal system are just not Jacob in twenty seconds, an Americans Brexit do I have to. My friends from back home have been emailing. The texting me as what is going on. And that the enters usually I I don't know anymore. It's there doesn't seem to be a way out of this. Like, he that's tak- parakeets from Chessen house now still to come on the program. We'll be Mipim which is the world's biggest property market event. UBS global financial services from whatever. One hundred fifty years of heritage built on the unique dedication of people. We bring fresh thinking and perspective to our work. And we know that it takes a marriage of intelligence and haunt to Cranston value for Clinton's. It's about having the right ideas, of course. But it was time about having one of the most accomplished systems and unrivaled network of global experts. That's why at ABS we pride ourselves on thinking smarter to make a real difference. Choon in weekly to the bulletin with UBS for all the latest insights on opinions from UBS and experts from around the world. Nick him the world's biggest property market event is currently underway in con with twenty six thousand participants three hundred sixty speakers and organizations from over one hundred countries taking part there's a lot of deals to be done Monaco's business additive in each Rainey's braving Seve estate agents to be there and joins us on the line. Now of insures it'll read Charles's and little minis. There are a lot of our lot of just see of them. I've never quite been at one of these real estate events before. And it's it's quite staggering actually is him full. It's full for developers. It's a real estate agent it for anyone who's interested in the team all kit from Highland spectators, like myself to people who are actually making the deals and then when he wants to come to Canada for a few days, but it's not for people who are looking to buy a house, for instance. No, which looking more mega-development. So for example, Egypt's half the time this. Yeah. And they were how thing a couple of really lodged about where the foundation have already been broken. But looking for more investors and these things like creating holy cities, which king things on a really large scale. It was the first time that Egypt had has taken this. Well, sort of impression did it. Give. Good impression. They had a really impressive stool, they had a nice little terrorists outbox. So that always helps where people can fit some sun and chat about what they do. And but there was also of a bit of a letdown the junction prime minister feeding ministers with opposed to be hit to to sell this hold about minutes. But they want able to come enough minutes. And and I think there's a question of couch. Eveb UIL is this really to build a whole new fifty that, you know, looks gleaming and spectacular and sustainable and this muddle and all of that he fled. But how how is that? Really? And there's a sense that maybe they'll be a little bit of letdown. It's like with the prime minister cutting up, I'm generally across the Middle East. I mean is there an appetite to invest in the region, given the political instability? Yes, I think so real estate sachse south seems to be buoyant hair. Everyone spent continues sitting next to someone who walks major Lebanese Vata nights at a future architecture. What's dinna? And and yet he said there's a lot of appetite for about in terms of future connects future architects, of course, is huge amounts of building going on in places like UAE, and it really has become an Alcatel playground. Is that much sense of that we looking at these wonderful new megacities just in Egypt, but beyond. There is. Yeah. I mean, there's always the new toilet building. The new biggest complex to by the talking about development said at the palm, you know, Maceio property has had had a huge presence does. Yeah. There's a lot of sense the contacts can create these huge glass towers that will impress for miles to see. But there's also a lot of fissile smaller scale things on social housing in Scandinavia. We saw a huge emphasis on fifty become called neutral and making the most the immobility that's coming. So those are the big range of stuff going on. Well, let's just expose little bit the notes to the environment and the focus on sustainability that I presume is taking much more precedence. It is and yeah Scandanavia is really leading the way on this in this respect. They speaking to the mayor of Copenhagen yesterday. And he was telling me how he wants the fifty called neutral by of our two and free by twenty twenty five vary embellishes, but he says he has the the education and the infrastructure in place to make that happen. Fifties. Going little bit more generally for twenty five twenty eight in Manchester, for example. So you know, there's a lot of lot of mission. Then realization that think Mayo's particularly can help tackle climate change through the way that government Sassi's in Britain. Of course, we can talk of little Brexit is that affecting prophecy deals. Well, you'd be you'd be surprised to think that Rex actually hasn't really been talk that cat. I think to is down the line people realize that happens on we're still not ready show. What it will look like property is going to go ahead investment is going to go ahead. The wells will keep hunting and the silhouette of a lot of money tonight. Lot of money invested so not people continuing normal hair. Yeah. What do you particularly looking food to in the coming day the? I'm looking forward to putting out my deck. Chad the evening glass of wine on the beach. But the full that I'm going to very interesting breakfast in our well between about fifties. Maybe sitting with a lot of people around the world future of cities. And and I will be NCNB mayor Pusa not be quite interesting of fun. Even should we love a goodie bag other any great handouts. Well, I was on the set for the best tote bag. You can never have enough type Bax quite love one's knocking around. But I'm not biased. But London have the best one. It was a meet foot of graphic logo of Lun done. Yeah. Made me think I wanna carry that. I'm proud of my fifty the Nisha. Thank you very much. Indeed. That's when he should rainy business editor at MIDEM in Cannes. It's time to business next with financial analysts Lewis kipah. Good morning to you. Louise. Good morning Georgina. Now, we've been looking at Boeing and to him about this during the paper of you, the entire aircraft the it's grounded its entire crash aircraft fleet. What are the implications? The business not only for Boeing itself. But the for those airlines that use that particular model one, of course, when I find it quite wit because the shed prices down six percent, and the seven three seven is Chicago is, you know, Boeing's largest seller. It's a third of the companies operating profit yesterday. When President Trump announced the grounding the chef Weiss was down about three percent. But actually on the day ended up off upset so I find somewhat bewildering, given it's you know. Of course, we don't know the league's yet, but we've had two planes go down killing pretty much everyone on board and say, oh, you know, it's a fix they'll fix it with software, and as we all know it goes down to this. The fact central gravity on this is different because they positioned the the engines differently. And therefore, they have this sort of software system that started that sort of. Helps pilots to to to to fly the plane, and it's this system that sort of keeps putting the noise up down. That's the problem. So I'm presuming the stock market saying, I think it's the maneuvering characteristics augmentation system of the MCAS. So I'm kind of thinking, well, let's talk just thinks he's some kind of software fix pilot training. Everything will be fine. But I, you know, I think many consumers will look at these planes, and Geno will I'm not sure unhappy flying on this plane, and as I say six hundred billion dollars with the oldest buying has full this plane, and I mean airlines really gonna buy when when customers don't wanna fly on it. So I find the stock market reaction slightly old. Clearly, they think, you know, this is problem that's going to go away. And not a big deal. Louis. Let's let's move on. I'm sure that's a story that will keep making headlines. Let's look Facebook. Now the most severe out. Outage in its history. Yeah, I've tried to get face this morning. It's back haul. Now Instagram also was down for many, many hours. I mean, the thing about this is that face because the second biggest advertiser in the world in the world. That's just extrordinary. Of course, the first one is Google. So we see this massive takeover of Facebook and Google intense the global advertising business to the detriment of old style media like newspapers and television radio. And so the question is will if you have an outage lost this loan does that mean face because to hand back two hundred million dollars with of daily advertising revenues also we don't know what the public is has it been a hack doesn't think is, but you know, with questions of data security in the face because already on domestic pressure for the way, it's dealt with people's data the way potentially I it's Russian. Trolls used it to interfere in the US, president Lech presidential election here in the UK with Brexit as well. And you know, all investigations ongoing in the states as to as to those investigations. So so I look at the loss thing Facebook needs at a time when already under massive pressure by the white share prices down about twenty percents. It's lost year. Right. Well, Johnson and Johnson is another company whose ship price might be going down a Californian. Juries just twenty nine million dollars to a woman with Counci who blames Johnson and Johnson's Telcom powder. Yeah. When you Johnson Johnson talcum powder is Kohnic. It's being around five hundred thirty years. Now, these losses have been ongoing in the states for some time. And it minds me a lot of the tobacco lawsuits. They keep going keep going keep going and then the company just appeals appeals appeals them until you get a definitive decision. The highest American coot in the land. So you're gonna see a lot of this. There's something like thirteen thousand law. Receipts in America at the moment, claiming this baby powder causes Varian Counci and mess. Bellio. Basically, the problem with towel is it's the view is is up specials in the talq and J J always said, no, it's damaging, and if you get special in your body, that's because of what place issues. This jury found is the evidence presented by this woman's legal team, you convince them that the tout could contributed to cancer. So this is a significant another significant lawsuit that will be more, and we have to wait until it goes to the highest court in the land then and then we discover. You know, what happens? But of course, the US the beginning this what one does it they'll be around the world as well. Sedately are going to have to leave it there. Thank you very much. Indeed is Louise Kupa you listening to the globalist on monocle twenty four. Since nineteen Ninety-seven Deutsche boss, photography foundation prize has been recruiting some of the most distinctive and innovative talents behind lens this year. The shortlist ranges from Albro for her publication on abortion to our admits Mus RAF no evidence, which focuses on the red Amish suction in Germany also known as the bottom Meinhof group works from those talents and more currently on show at London's photographer's gallery and on Sundays motorcycle weekly the gallery's curator on Donovan joined rub bound and Augustine much Larry to discuss it. Rope began by asking whether the price focuses more on the style of the photographer themselves all the specific project. They've been working on. Of course, the prices always judged by changing jury she and I think for every jury members it's quite different. Some are looking at the specific subject matter because they feel it links to what is happening in the world. At the moment. Some others will look at the style and type of photography and the quality of photography. All it's always about the project is about the project how it has been captured how it has been done in this space or in the book. And is it cohesive is doing something that's important for the moment. And is it outstanding compared to other work? So we had a long list of artists of hundred twenty artists around hundred twenty and out of those four artists wish shortlisted for the exhibition. I mean, how how does that original whittling down of the longlist work because I think people are listed interested in that to know everything spread out on some big boardroom table some in the photographers gallery. Maybe the daddy of lightboxes knew how does that whittling process? That must be the quick pulse. I suppose not really this is the very difficult pod. You have one hundred twenty fantastic projects. And then all of them you have around fifteen images. You have artists -ment you have biographies of each of these artists. And then you decide not because he want to curate a great show necessarily at that point. But you just want to see is that project cohesive is interesting, and then you whittling down, and you will live down with let down so we're not kind of looking at K we had a documentary project. We can't have another documentary project. But it's really about each and every project and question what the autists is doing and has been unsuccessfully. There's really meaty unquote challenging topics that are being coveted from abortion to the Meinhof group. Of course, this kind of terrorist left wing militia that Tara Germany in the seventies. I was were the house these retrospect of McCollum wildly popular, you know, even anecdote I went round and it was competitive parts on a Tuesday morning. Is there something in the these kind of big challenging issues things that people feel the need to address in two thousand nineteen or is this just a kind of set of ideas that photography has historically handled. Very capably. I think both to be honest. I think that photography was always used outstandingly to document very challenging and complex issues of the time that at the same time, I think now some in some ways last year felt a little bit that we have the post-truth kind of era, and what can the image show and Kennedy some form of truth? And I think now all of these artists have invested. He is in years of their time to try to grasp something that is true. That is kind of in some ways in a conceptual idea of documenting something that is it a lived experience. And is that with archival material like our mess? My does and without many. Descriptions around, but like let the images speak for themselves. Or is that something that is a real lift experience like in the Kurdistan project of of Susan my Salas that we are showing in the gallery space where she's trying to gather evidence for collective history and collective memory. So I think that is this hope and this this this to invest enough work to get something that is kind of that you can hold onto rather than just questioning the image in the material self interesting that, you know, the work on shows engaging is kind of spurning time periods. It's not just contemporary documented, highlighting issues that are going on. Now, this idea of archival photography in an using. That is maybe something that won't be super familiar listeners. I don't know if that's yes seems things over much projects and the photographers have to have a body of work to call on. It's not you get what we someone's talent hand. With his gathering. We think it's interesting. These very much projects. I mean going back to some of the things that I lost depth for different show. We were making Monaco. That was definitely the case with people that had to be in that bona kind of autistic being that bone it for years and thinking about the the photographer who did them on Santo project, and it seems like all of it seems like the most plane one if I might offend his great over such is Mark riddles the American landscape for which you will we we've kind of seen similar stuff before, but will comes through the kind of political element or societal elements all of these things and even mocks projects that is that alignment as well. Maybe it's not as obvious. But because he is documenting and photographing the North American landscape for thirty years, and he's basically interested in how human trait of how human have kind of intervened with the landscape, and they're these scarves in nature that were human mate. And so the is very political maybe not obvious, but the very political even in his work and that was unin Dunham from the photographers gallery in London discussing the both Taga foundation prize currently on show, the you can hear an extended version of that chat on the Monica weekly monocle dot com. And that's all today's program. Thanks to Virginia's done Vate and Tom whole Harissa just pay rentals. And worry cannot stadium manages today was David Stevens after the headlines movies on the way, the briefing is live at midday in London and the globalist returns at the same time tomorrow, I'm Georgina Godwin. I'll next about with you on the weekend edition on Saturday. And during that fifteen hundred it's meet the writers the writer. I meet this week is from. From who was by the side of Nelson Mandela for nearly twenty years. She was his private secretary, and she has many intimate stories to share about the great, man. So that's coming on Sunday while it's goodbye for me. And thank you for listening.

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Mass migration of human populations predicted

The Science Show

08:17 min | 2 years ago

Mass migration of human populations predicted

"But what about Brexit, you cry? Well, last week we heard from Lewis doctrinal, a professor from the university of Westminster and author of origins on how geology made us who we are. But what about now at the end of the book? You've got this wonderful Mars. I view of the than the lights and showing where the population is. And the interesting thing is now we are facing as you've put in the previous book some sort of possible cataclysm where they're huge changes now. Okay. When we were coming out of the trees in Africa, and we had to adapt quickly. That was nonetheless slow enough out changes head of us now are going to happen far more quickly. And okay. Maybe the challenge will be to great how you picturing ridden a previous book on this. How to adapt to a cataclysm and recover from it. If you look at the realistic now view of climate change in such like, what do you? Think might happen. Yes. So throughout the chapters of the book of origins talk about not just emergence as a species, but then look through thousands of years of human history and all the different ways that features of plant earth of influence affected human history. Serving the very first emergence of civilizations. In Mesopotamia two thousand years of history. How atmospheric circulation was fundamentally behind European age of discovery and building these vast trade networks round the world which helped build the Multon globalized industrialized civilization that we live in today, and then you can future you can look at our past you can learn from past and how the earth has had a huge influence on that. And then ask what might happen in the next chapter? And then the chapters yet to be written because it's resounding true that that balance of power has flipped completely round. The earth has directed to human story up until now. But now, we are essentially masters the earth at the human species home assumptions is the dominant. Environmental factor on the planet in terms of changes where were pushing upon the atmosphere and ocean chemistry and the climates and all mining just moving earth around, and what I show in that last picture of origins is this view of the earth at night, and you can see these twinkling constellations of of human habitation of the bright ribbon of light, which is the Nile valley in burning through the desert and in Egypt. The hugely populated east coast of America, the bright triangle of India. This is where the majority of humans live today. But with these profound changes to the world that already beginning with climate change would not going to be able to grow crops in the places where we'd been growing crops hundreds. If not thousands of years, the climate systems of weather systems are going to start shifting and so where people traditionally lived in very high populations today. Simply they're gonna have to move, and so one of the profound changes that will be driven. Unless we start solving climate change now will be mass migration of human populations. People by the millions will be marching to the place the planet, which are now more habitable and a nest hit by drought or by flood and that picture in the last chapter of origin showing the current distribution of humanity is going to change those kind of problems that are going to have to find solutions to by looking drone past and seeing how the earth has behaved some times in its own history. But there's no precedent surely coping with something on that scale that she there is. So the most similar natural events North's history to what we are currently doing artificially with human driven climate change is a period fifty five point five million years ago called the Palestinians in thermal maximum will the P ATM, and this entire eventless is a huge temperatures. Spike is short intense fever of the world, and in the course of less than ten thousand years. So the shortest time into what we can measure. In the fossil record the earth's climate leapt by five to eight Greece celsius waved around a little bit before slowly coming back down again over about one hundred thousand two hundred thousand years, and that is the closest thing we can see in recent history recent earth histories millions ego to what we are doing now. So we can try to understand what we're doing. Now by studying this previous natural event. And it'll take ten thousand years to adapt so happened no less than ten thousand ten thousand just the shortest into what we can see in false record. So it's already happening in the last two hundred years since the industrial revolution. And what has been very scary for the climate science. I think the general population is now gonna filtering through to all of us change is happening. It is happened. Very clearly is happening. A lot lot quicker than any would be on -ticipant thing. And this is why people are talking about. We need start making some difficult choices and big changes in the next ten fifteen years possibly geo engineering your fan of that she engineering is one category of Slough. Have been put forward if we can't change on DASA civilization to have less impact. We could try to mitigate the effect of what we're doing. So if we can't reduce the amount of carbon dioxide palm doubtless fear. We can maybe stop blocking out some the sunlight to reduce global warming that way to my mind that sounds crazy to try to start launching great big shades into low of orbit to she'll the planet or to deliberately stop pumping. What's basically volcanic eruption into the high stratosphere sulfate particles, try to reflect sunlight back out, we don't understand all of the planet systems, which is why we've got into this difficult in the first place. So if our solutions to metal even further with things, we don't understand just seems like a recipe for disaster to me, it seems more sensible to be prudent and back to back to solve the root cause of the problem not trotted like botch solutions using technology further back to Brexit, right? I'm just referring to the various ways, I think four times the channel was an ice block and the temperatures so cold in Great Britain as it was not yet that people died out. They couldn't escape because those is everywhere, and it was only on the fourth occasion that the channel actually became water again and people could come across from the continent again and established life on what is now. Great Britain, one of the stories, I tell in origins is the original Brexit when Britain became an island and the front. The Britain's einon's is being hugely significant throttle history we'd been entre Pell invaders over thousand years since ten sixty six and that's not important for own sovereignty, speaking Brits. But for the stability of Europe is a whole because no one state gets to build an empire. Napoleon couldn't own empire across Europe Hitler was prevented by Britain being cleaned. It's natural moat and be able to fight back as well. And we did used to be part of content on your. We were joined by a strip of land running between Dover and Calais which was basically crumpled up by the same earth. Shifting movement. That created the Alps now thousand miles south is Africa slammed into your as it was you mentioned earlier and this natural bridge. Captors connected to France. We were physically part of Europe in until an ice age. Not the most recent highs age when humans were migrating around the world from Africa, but nice age about three or four ice age cycles ago that's been about fifty ice ages and the last two and a half two point six million years. And so that natural Ambrish got scoured away in a catastrophic. Mega flood geologists. Call it where a huge glacial lake got trapped Venus land bridge and the Scandinavian ice sheet during this ice age, and it just burst through this natural dams that were and very very rapidly erode away scoured away this entire umbrage and physically separated Britain from Europe. So it was that. Vent. That was the original Brexit, and it says hap these Yuji Smith knock on affects the history of Europe is either said, no wonder some Brits want to return to the ice age. Professor Lewis Dartnell is at the university of Westminster and his book on where we came from. And where we're going is called origins.

Britain Europe Africa Professor Lewis Dartnell university of Westminster Brexit Nile valley professor Great Britain Venus land bridge Ambrish Egypt India Slough Yuji Smith France Napoleon America Greece
Greg Au-Yeung  Debt Management Tip: Only Invest What You Can Afford to Lose

My Worst Investment Ever Podcast

35:51 min | 7 months ago

Greg Au-Yeung Debt Management Tip: Only Invest What You Can Afford to Lose

"The problem arise you know when ninety seven hits us because the property market crash and did not crash just by single digit is actually double-digit crash and continuously. Third Hello Fellow risk-takers in welcome to my worst investment ever stories of laws to keep you winning in our community. We know that to win investing, you must take risks but to win big, you've got to reduce it. My name is Andrew Stotz of as Dots Academy where we apply finance principles to help four types of people investors who want to better manage their stock portfolio aspiring professionals who want to learn how to value any company in the wool business leaders. We WanNa make their companies financially whoa class in even beginners who just want to learn how to implement a simple lifetime investment plan joined the. Academy at my worst investment ever dot com slash academy and get free access to the short course I created called six ways to lose your money in six strategies to win discourse comes from what I learn from all of these podcasts interviews well now on with the show, this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz, and I'm here with featured guests Greg Young Greg are. You Ready to rock. Absolutely I know you are because we just had a nice chat and catch up. So let's get into it. I'm going to introduce you to the audience. So let me get that to you hold up. So Greg has held senior executive positions at various global banks in including. SAXO. UBS, and said Morgan Stanley in State Street Bank. He has a solid track record pioneering building and managing technology centers in China, that deliver innovative solutions and support digital transformation programs for incumbent banks, Fintech, and my that is such a big and important space. It has been for the last decade. Greg is currently senior adviser for Shanghai Fudan University specializing in Fintech, and he's also the CO founder of Financial Technology Talent Standardization Committee. He was also the China columnist for Shanghai daily Computerworld in various newspapers and magazines in Hong Kong and China. Graduated with a degree in computer science from the University of Westminster. You, completed executive MBA program at the Chinese University of Hong Kong any certified from Mit in artificial intelligence Harvard Infant Tech N Copenhagen Business School in digital transformation of financial services. He's also a chartered information technology professional a fellow of the Hong Kong Computer Society Member of British Computer Society Hong, Kong Chamber of Commerce and American Chamber of Commerce Shanghai while take a minute greg and Phyllis in on a little bit of details about your distinguished life. Well, thank you, Andrew I think it's three on three, two zero podcast show here and I'm making myself Albers you're from Hong Kong than happy in the financial industry a long time against you know for my resume at about fourteen years ago I was fortunate to offer posted in China and that's why I moved to China in stay here ever since and has been a central journey that such a memorable journey in here you know setting up, send us not just on the west side, but also lifestyle basic weakness the. Exponential growth of the economy you know in China lost two decades, which is incredible. I mean from the time. I have to carry cash everywhere and even the eighteen machine don't accept a foreign 'cause. I. Cannot use a Foreign Greg Cobb, all your debit card from Hong Bang Bang yet doesn't work it. But within five to ten years said, everything has changed today just carry a cellphone go out to buy everything and even my wife do when market you know she doesn't care cash is everything is you know the transactions done by several? So this? Demonstrate. You know how drastic the change has been the. Case yet interesting because I I'd never been to China until about roughly ten years ago and when I went it just blew my mind. As an American growing up in America the way the story was built for Young Kid in America? About China was built by politicians, of course. And you know it was wasn't a positive view. It was you know communist and this and that, and then I went there and I just saw whole nother world and one of the challenges I faced was, how do you go to a very different country? And not bring your preconceived ideas. And we all have a frame of reference that comes from our own society, our own upbringing, and having now lived outside of the US for twenty nine years. I'm forced. You know if I was to deliver by my American principles to the core I just have a miserable life and I'd think everybody's doing it wrong. And when I went to China and I kind of saw the success that was happening all around in the development that was happening all around that country I just had to realize you know. They're doing some things that are right. You know every country has you know the wrongs in the difficult things that they're facing but I was very impressed and then to talk about the thing that you mentioned about the the pace of development I, remember on my university where I did my. You know within within one year. There was no yellow bicycles for getting around the university that you could use your Gr Code on and then within one year the whole campus in everywhere in the town was available to get on these bikes and you just think the pace of adapting new technology is just unbelievable for the average American that's sitting in Cleveland where I grew up in that area. They just couldn't imagine how fast things are moving. And I just find that really really something that people don't realize and someone asked me, why are they moving? So fast I said, well, I would say that Chinese people have a different level of urgency. But. Also when you have such a volume of people, you have to develop these technologies otherwise you know it's just GonNa be logjams everywhere. So the pressures on the system are much more than they are in other countries I would argue but any thoughts about that Yesterday right I think that the pays stephanus extreme supervise is beyond imagination but the same time you realize that you know I, think go back to your earlier question about you know when you first come in, you know as a foreigner even though I'm Chinese but. Chinese Mongol but you know but he's a very different. You know like Singapore in Chinese home Chinese different but the DNA Chinese are but there's a lot of similarity and the Vada etc but once I came in here is. Different is everything's different. You know especially early days right and I had you know culture shock you know he told me a awhile even though I've been covering. China for a while actually living here's a difference like I said inconveniences in all the state and you know people don't follow accused like elsewhere and the capital lanes you know and so and so forth. Right. But but when a step back and say look I'm a developing country right and even when I talk to my mom about this was in those days is that way you know the fifties Hong Kong people actually queue up in. You know in the waiting for the bus ever scrambling to the bus ride. All People's Middle All. Long ago you know but you got to step at NC head stages right. But then I look back and see the changes that it's not just technology changes is the civilization that people are more civil than befall right? Many even people jump queues now the local say you know? Go back to Mac of you know, and you don't need a Pharma to count them. All right, and of course you know. But because challenge in China I guess is the population. One point four billion people and is not possible always almost impossible to change his mind set overnight and best why you have clusters of different development. All of China in is a good example great sample. You see people afoul civil well behaved than let's say in on way. So familiar with net oil and going back to even further inland because you. Know, a lot of people have not even been in touch with forest and they have not been exposed to any new way of thinking you know. So it's like you have to cut them slack and you gotTa step by law amid are catching up and they are improving. But I assume the positive I and via poor forget about mannerism right as what? Exactly if you're well. Than you think about Ooh, how can I? Get a better house and then went to have a better houses that. CanNot do charity and go. Back Zaidi only is steps you know people ticket, but I do believe that it is on the right track and and a lot of people have a love misinformed about China definitely. No human rights and all this right. But billion realize that you know if you bought the wrong house because of your own problem and then if you keep on complained to the government eventually, you may get away from it not by paying up the property and love don't realize that because the gunman is very cautious about camp. The little guys knocked the guys the wealthy guys they don't you know yeah. They got they pay taxes on all these right. But the guys are the ones who could create a long trouble for the society and become a also become. A civil unrest and they do give them and that's why you see that you know people are being taken care of by People's government and. There's there's so many fascinating things and I know for a lot of listeners they don't necessarily have never been to China were they don't know that much about China and there's a couple of other quick things I would like to just talk about before we get into the show and I think you know the first thing is when an American person says meal democracy democracy and I think how you gonna how would you manage one point four? Billion People. The level of complexity of that is just off the charts. And so it's easy to say, yeah, we'll just do it my way, but you know when you're on top of that, you know it it isn't it isn't as simple as that number one. The second thing that you know I I think about when I think about the challenges in China is that it also made me think when I when I walked in and I saw that say things can be pretty rough. As you said, you know some provinces can be, let's say from an American perspective or British perspective not very polite or something like that. And you know the first thing that we can think of, I wonder when they're going to develop and they should have better manners or whatever, and then I started to think I challenged the listeners to this podcast to think. Why do we have these manners? Why do we act this way? Well, it's because as a society we set up these structures of this is the way you act when you're sitting at a table and you act very politely and you put your your knife and fork this way why do we do that? And I'm not saying I have the answer and I'm not saying what's right or wrong but I'm asking for each of us to question. What we have been taught is right or wrong. And when we do that and then we look back in China and I thought to myself you know five thousand years of civilization. There's some credit there as to way things happen and I think can question why things happen. You know why you've been socialized in the way that you've been socialized very difficult to do because you've got to overcome. Not The other thing is that Thailand is nearby in Thailand, is a democracy. And there was a politician in Thailand. The gut kind of in trouble when he said, I don't care what type of government what form of government we have, what matters is the benefits that the people get from the government. Well, if you say that that's going to bring it, raise a lot of red flags to a lot of people. But from my perspective I went to China and saw that in fact, the little guy gets a lot more from the government in China than they do in Thailand. But were labeled a democracy. So that, you know really made me just think about what is the function of government and you know what? What is it, and the last thing that I would end my little chat on China is. After traveling around the world to many places and being out to villages in many different cities and all that. One conclusion I have is. People do. Not. WanNa fight. They WANNA live in peace. It's politicians from every country from every tribe from every group that that fans the flames of fighting. And people ultimately get sucked into it, and so if you go and you look at the world and you say majority of people just want to live their life as a farmer as a worker and not have to deal with violence. Then it also helps us to remember to stop putting too much faith in politicians because they are the ones that start fights and start wars. So are my last comments on it? Any any comment you would make? No I agree you know everything you said about this and I think it's A. Wish we're living in the mall far more complex world then twenty thirty years ago hope and the far more challenges ahead of us new challenges and I just hope that you know we the government. All the governments you know have maintained a rational mind and you know and actually do together people high do is believe people you know have good attention and I think that's a good stop when negotiating and then try to work out. Solutions Rodman. Creating. False images, etc. so you know we still have a long way to go but I think you know it's not something that we can solve but I think you know assange we can influence on the people that. All inform other people with the right information, and hopefully, this could help other people to race on the bed of inflammation in facts to make that position. And ultimately we as a people across the world have to work for peace and have to want peace. So that's critical. Well, that's a great introduction to China and to yourself so many different things I appreciate the time but now it's time to share your worst investment ever, and since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it and then tell us your story. Show. I myself as investor on I. Always adopt a bind whole strategy all my life, and so maybe because of my upbringing you know by trade in always win working in banks and they receptive. That looked I right and secondly you know it's because we're working bank Keno they also follow. You cannot just speculate stocks never they you go there apply you know your bosses then you you need to know you need to get through that. This assault said Lakhimpur. So by time you actually get everything approved right? The stock all new also know so surveys, you know it's it's a false me into that talented as well and so so I think you know that's why touch with by by lodge myself you know my only investment so has been rented. Okay. You know and because I'm not an aggressive investor, you know usually mutual funds money marquette prompt excetera take a very cautious about that Orissa fus approach and the story goes today is actually the main stories you're my family. I think like my family's extroverted consultative, just a middle. Class. in Hong Kong you know there's just a regular family and we're not wealthy and so on and then my parents for humble beginning and they earn decide the savings throw that Korea and there's always been like this but. Things change you know in nineteen, Ninety, seven, I think nine, Ninety, seven, four, many many people don't know you know we sat nine ninety seven is actually the Asian financial crisis. It was the time when the jaw actually tried to attack the currency, the Asian currencies and causes the. You know in the entire Asia economy and down along the you know basically economy from. Thailand to Malaysia saying by everywhere right and finally also hit Hong Kong. But functionally, Hong Kong exit defended pre well, they didn't unpack the USTA at the end, but it causes a law financial issues especially to the health. And it costs us a market crash and basic slot market crash also the housing market crash. So the story when my family actually stopped, do some investment additional property investment before ninety seven that was about ninety, five, ninety six, and that was at the height of the before just before the bubble burst. Call, you know several reasons you know family need to invest in another property. Because, we could not raise funds we have to remortgage our properties and some of the perfect dessert payoff already because of this additional investment, we have the extra remorse that means we have to borrow more money from the banks and we have to borrow at high time because at as high but also the property price was you know was ver- hires a record high, and so we did that on for one year. It was okay. You south of business except for etc, and then the I think the the problem arise you know when ninety seven hits us because the property market crash and it did not crash just by A. Single digit is actually double digit crash and continuously, and if you look back, right, they untie ninety seven Asian financial crisis last fall almost eight years and it's a continuous stick for many many years and so within two years you know department prize went down like forty fifty percent and that was harsh and this why and of course, you know if you owe money to the bank at that time and the banks will will be quite worried. They worry that you won't be pay payoff so they will call him and when they call owns than you have to pay back the remaining of the mortgage on whatever that you're borrow from the banks and. That's no small business executive up in. Misao. Needed to pay off this debt snow and we will not let you money anymore. So this exactly what happened and so you know we have to struggle and then selling the properties at a much lower price than before. The whole deal took outside three s, and then we finally sold off of the properties and inquiries of the problem is that we hope before and we experienced substantial loss in the famine assets over three years and. That was. A terrible moment for the family and prosciutto total commitment family and period arguing a why did they invest and both in position but stay Alito was a painful moments and j you can imagine for any family to that and just to give the perspective we wouldn't worst because there are a lot of people actually commit suicide you know June. Around ninety seven because he'll. It could. Pay Off the debts and they still money etc, and by today took a life and those verse at moment in Hong Kong's history and the closer you know we had family friend who's actually a lawyer you know respectable lawyer in his sixties and he actually leverage remortgaged in he basically did not pay by cash out of all property healed enough properties or something like that. And then at the end. To sewed all of them all return all as the bank and he lost his entire savings and also because of the bankruptcy lol. States that you know as a legal profession, you don't hold the license anymore you have to give bent. You basically, no longer a licensed lawyer if you declared bankrupt. Regimen you know in the sixties and you lost everything how the game you know and I will happen Jim up to ascend is I actually my mother's friend but I can not imagine you know he and he's not long. Law People like that in non culture that time, and that's why in that was a read the darkest moments in Hong Kong's history, and what's worse as that you know for some people may remember sauce the virus that hit Hong Kong was around two thousand and three and like adding fuel to the fire. Is Actually hit rock bottom hulls economy. Hit Rock bottom around three you know off the opted a copy off the ninety seven came of sauce and that's your no one. Ever went to see property. All Dubai anything even went to restaurants do my wife went to restaurant and they gave us a fifty percent discount. A an hurdles. Restaurant you walk in is we'll give you a half. Is Everything's authorized restaurant because there's no one lecture to end the restaurant and that's why I think that was really a serious financial crisis that hit home called Hawk. Man There's a lot to think about about that but just review for them what are the lessons that you learned from that experience? I think I is that you know you always need to understand what you can afford and what you cannot fault leverage borrow money. You need to understand that you have to pay back it just like credit card you know you use your credit card. You can apply full you know beyond maximum limits. But at the end you have to pay off and you'll pay off their interest rates and there's a very high interest rate and you calculate that you cannot just you know think that everything is great. I have a Sarah is to get a paycheck tomorrow. On. Next month at live credit, you can't because the world is not the same minimal and. Basil experience I would say you know I think biggest impact to me. My especially doesn't. You know what you can afford before you make position and all one more thing that tie with the same. Philosophies. Add even if you buy property if you know a few years later have been called on, you would have that cash to pay back. And you know emphasis ninety seven, I always hold that philosophy. I will never buy anything desk beyond my capability because you know what's going to happen next year Tomorrow and the economy will go down to dry tomorrow just like Kobe and all of this could happen and every Wednesday that property only go up popularized that's nonsense I've been. Smoking Japan. You Happen to see that dip and. The Hong Kong and that's why China whenever I talked to the young people said, you know don't count on it. You think you talk to price who own go out no. Doubt you know. So let me summarize some things that I take away. I mean I lived through that crisis. I was in Thailand in nine, hundred, ninety two, and then started working as an analyst in the stock market in nineteen, ninety three, and then in January of nineteen ninety, four, the set index in Thailand hit seventeen, eighty-nine its peak. In that was fantastic times. It was exciting time actually from thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, five, until nineteen, ninety, five, all of Asia was just going through an absolute boom. The idea of being able to tell someone that you know this could crash or something you would be laughed out of aboard room if you went in, told them that you know what if what, if the economy only grew by one percent or something like that? Everybody was in that mentality and the stock market in Thailand fell ninety percent. And I know in many other countries also during that time of the ninety seven crisis fell massively and when you factor in the currency devaluation, it actually fell ninety five percent for let's say a US investor. And in fact, the US, the Thai stock market is still not back to where it was at the prior peak. We're talking about almost twenty five years. So, get real folks if you're listening in right now remember crashes do happen and they can be massive and they can take years for them to recover. And I'm thinking particularly about the US believe there is a very, you know the market is being propped up the second thing that I that you know you remind me of when I was a young guy, my first ten years as an analyst was bank analyst. So I was looking at the banks and balance sheets and going through the boom time and the crisis, and then the recapitalization in what I learned from that is. Almost. Every economic crisis is a property market crisis. It starts with property. And part of the reason is because property is the ultimate collateral that backs the loans. So, one of the reasons why is important in China in the past to keep that property market high because if the property market starts to fall the ability to collect and get back, the money that you've lend becomes very difficult. In fact, I was in China not too long ago, talking at a vent and I was driven from the airport into the event by a woman who who worked for a government agency that that buys basically bad assets in China and I said, you must be really struggling right now said, no, we're making money. And I realized, of course, in China, you have the ability to set the pricing of the transfer of that asset at a relatively low price number one and number two is at the property market was rising. So as long as you got it at a reasonable price, you waited a little bit. You could sell it for some profit. But if that property market falters stats a disaster and that brings me to the third thing I would take away is that the number one risk in business in life is dead in my opinion? It can take you down just when you don't expect it does other risks, foreign exchange and all that stuff. But ultimately, the number one risk is debt, and from this, what we learn from your stories said do not get overextended in in the world of finance we teach Oh, there's an optimum capital structure where you're going to have a certain amount of capital throw that out the window. And think about if you're going to borrow money for yourself for your business. Just borrow a small amount. You don't need to borrow huge amount. Now you may have slow growth, but you protecting your wealth over the long term, and that brings me the last thing which is about interest rates. Most important thing about interest rates is that they should be set by the free market. Why is that? Because interest is the price of risk? And when you distort the price of risk. You caused tremendous distortions in the economy in your country and global economies, and that's what's happening in the US that's happening around the world when we tried to control the interest rate. Right now I listened to one of my nieces just got alone. She bought a house in the middle of this crisis because she borrow money at three percent thirty year fixed. You, know this type of very extremely low interest rate causes malinvestment that will be cleaning up for decades to come. So Ladies and gentlemen. If you're listening I, highly recommend that you listen carefully to Greg story about the impact of debt on a particular family because ultimately these kinds of losses happened in same thing in. Thailand. Thailand. Actually was the beginning of it the epicenter of it, but we had people that jump off buildings, people that shot themselves and killed themselves because of the pressures that debt put on them. So anything you'd add to that. No I think you know. I think people need to keep the motion away from. nothing you know it. Is Difficult I. Think you know just like a story right? You know in in Hong Kong long time ago in his own organ. In Hong Kong. People are so into speculation and they may not listen to analysts may not listen to the bankers, but when was killed up in a supermarket buying. Household things than the Alina Fifty told her that you know the the stock coming in. You know he said, you know you should buy it then. They listen and then they go into. The broker and Neil plays the older. It. Just that you know ver- often is just that you know even I told my wife you know when you buy new socks in. Accurate Than Homework about style I'm always a fundamental guy amends and then like I said, they don't find hold the long term of course, I do speculate sometimes but only when I can avoid it because I know the technologists second while and know what stock that his is this communist be bake you know and then I'll just buy and the leader that. Even also, so be know an again is that I can't afford it, but it's not like a casino that you will you go all in and then you know you just. You just waiting to keep yourself i. think is something that you know over Nova and people just seemed to drift by motion rod rational. You know mind headway when through dealing with. And I think a good lesson in this is the idea of mental accounting into very valuable tool in behavioral finance arsenal of tools and that is. If you really feel like you've got a gamble a little bit. You WanNa play you. WanNa try to invest in this so that. Do it. With ten percent of your money. Separate that money so that you're you're segregating that into separate mental account and have fun and you know over five years see how much got. In these two different accounts, one building in a fundamental low risk way and another one by you know having some fun and you'll probably see after five years at the one, ten percent probably went to zero. But not always, not always. All right. So based on what you learn from this story and what you continue to learn what one action would you recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate? Is the message a fought when you can invest. And you gotta deal and calculation and you go to know what receptive yet you have I mean knowing can tell you accept yourself not even the banker. I can tell you something especially nowadays I don't trust the banks at all. You know that giving hotel, they're giving the mandate, but you have to do homework. You know yourself op-ed that anyone else right nominee among no, you bet. You GotTa know what what's Your what you can afford, and mostly longtime go for that whether or not you can. You know for the Investment Asaka ten years So one year and not worrying about it. You know even the loss and you know this is something that is incidental common sensory. It's a great point to I think everybody needs to listening needs to think about is that the food companies are going to sell you bad food and the the you know government may sell you bad ideas and someone else may tell you this and banks going to sell you. You know stuff to make money off of you ultimately something that my mother used to say to me a No. In the old days they said it in that is I think it's caveat emptor which means buyer beware. Ultimately. It's your responsibility and in no government can ever fully protect everybody they try to regulations and all that. But in the end ultimately, you are responsible. Well, last question what's your number one goal for the next twelve months? I think it might. Go is actually we're exploring my knicks adventure, company couple months Afghan and took a a really good break and love interesting things including the podcast today. Super You try something different than teaching and learning and the needle months Alberdo something different and that's why I'm. Getting Ready to prepare for my next adventure in you know. But one thing is that you know it's Yours to keep yourself excited about things and and that's why I always advise people not to retire. You can retire. Anyone need to have a passion you need to have a passion about. Anything you know it could be spots could be you know some interest of yours and you learn something new every day, and then Keegan's occupy your mood and and it would be great if that tons of income as well. Right. But by the thing is that keep you thinking if you motivated and and you won't be disconnected from society I think that's another thing that a lot of people get conned on. You know in the by by people in the streets you know all you know and because they're so disconnected that they're lonely, etc. But if you if you always give your morning so fresh and look at new things and paying attention men, I think you'd be fine. I have a book on the shelf behind me, and it's a book written by my grandfather and he wrote a few different books but this one was his final book that he wrote. And in the book, There's a little handwritten note and it's from his publisher and it says, you know congratulations Charlie my grandfather's name here is the first book off the Printing Press of your new book. Well done I. Hope you're relaxing enjoying you know, and that was it and the date of that letter was about one week before my father, my grandfather passed away. and. What I learned from that is he he lived to be eighty seven and he really worked to the last days and I thought to myself. That's what I want I want to be doing the things that I love and then one day you know I'm done. So yeah. Well, listeners there you have it another story of laws to keep you winning remember to go to my worst investment ever dot com slash academy to get access to my short course six ways to lose your money in six strategies to win an as we end greg, I want to thank you again for coming on the show and on behalf of Dot Academy I Hereby Award You. Alumni status returning your worst investment ever in your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience now I just I'm glad that depot here and I think you know Deserve to understand what the real world's like and most better to share a story. A real story that you know even though is a bad salary abandon investment nothing. You know heads in how people to make. The right choice enforce and I'm so glad to be here. Yeah. Happy to have you, and that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and most importantly protect our wealth fellow risk-takers. This is Andrew Stotz your worst podcast hosts saying I'll see you on the upside.

China Hong Kong Thailand Greg Young Greg US Andrew Stotz Chinese University of Hong Kon Hong Kong Computer Society Asia executive UBS Hong Bang Bang University of Westminster Greg Cobb SAXO Shanghai Copenhagen Business School Cleveland
Recovery part four  the second world war

The Anthill

32:35 min | 10 months ago

Recovery part four the second world war

"You're listening to the podcast from the compensation. This is part four of all series recovery. Looking at some of the major crises throughout history and how the world recovered from. I'm your host and about blind. So far we've explored the black death and the very long recovery that followed. The Lisbon earthquake of seventeen, fifty five, which destroyed the Portuguese capital and shook the rest of Europe. And then we turned to the combined shocks of the First World War and the Spanish flu in Nineteen, Eighteen In this episode we're looking at the united. Kingdom in the years immediately following the Second World War. There, the devastation of global conflict prompted unexpected, thinking about what role the state should play in protecting its citizens from hot chip and illness. To tell the story of how recovering from the wool, permanently changed the nation on made it possible to establish the national health. Service on going to pass you over to my colleague. Laura Hood the conversations politics editor. The second. World War was the deadliest military conflict in history. It killed somewhere between seventy and eighty five million people which amounted to around three percents of the global population in nineteen forty. Those who survived were left to face a vast reconstruction project. From decimated landscapes to emotional trauma, an economic devastation, the horrors of the early twentieth century amounted to a mammoth recovery challenge. There are many different ways to think about postwar recovery and many different nations. We could consider. But for this episode in series I wanted to zone in on the UK West, some surprising political developments took place in the postwar years. Essential component of the recovery process after World War Two in the UK, was the construction of the welfare state including the world famous. National Health Service. A flurry of legislation in the nineteen forties brought in what is called a cradle to grave social security system, the promised to provide a safety net against many the evils that played the lives of ordinary people as a result of the war. Hunger sickness and unemployment. That would be better housing better, education and financial support for those unable to work and would be publicly funded healthcare for all. A pledge that many did he like to hear from that governments during the coronavirus pandemic? Deceased of this project being seinfield years prior to World War Two. But the singular circumstances of the conflict provided the momentum needed to get with project up and running. So many people were left needing help after fighting ceased that radical thinking was urgently needed. In the end protective rebuild after conflict became a complete overhaul of the way the British state operated. It was reconstruction on an epic scale. Now with the shared experience of economic hardship job, losses and health concerns as a result of the current pandemic. It seems like a good moment to reexamine. How all this came about in one, thousand, nine hundred eighty Britain. With me to discuss World War Two recovery are PAT thane visiting professor in history at Birkbeck College. Bennett Harris Professor of social policy at the University of Strathclyde. And PIPPA guttural professor of history in policy at the University of Westminster. Now as I mentioned discussions about offering British citizens, greater state support had been going on for a long time before it will too, but I want to begin discussion in nineteen forty two. That's when landmark report by William. Beverage was published. Proposing a series of measures to address five giant evils want disease, ignorance, squalor, and idleness. Pat Many people describe the Beveridge report as laying the foundations for the welfare state. What did he actually propose? Be Martine forty round for posing phones to the health system associate insurance because the being going criticism before the war engineering beverage. The the provision of state pensions health. Non Employment Insurance and other benefits, the grownups with the century in inveigh haphazard a coordinated way he's. An early in the war became up this that these systems were preventing severe polity, so they showed massive politics Mungo. And evacuation showed policy among children. So commissioners intended to propose ways to improve the system. But recruitment didn't think is terribly important. A beverage was any push to chair. It 'cause he'd been advising on his Bevin. Minister of Labour. Organizing the wartime labor market, but betting got fed up with being bossed around by Babri, which is Varga beverages mode met bridge was a specialist in labour masses. So. I've go to appointed jazz. Insurance Committee to get rid of him. A beverage very disappointed aches seems so unimportant became convinced. Good, do something important. So what he proposed was a comprehensive program of state action to abolish. Won't as he pitted. To the pot giants could be destroyed by a national health service to killer disease. Good education good housing to abolish squalor. For Employment to an idleness. And improved social security benefits and family loans for old children. To provide think dinette does he put it protecting people from polity from cradle to the grave? But, he really cared that his socially opposes wasn't enough on their own to eliminate property, so the state had to find ways to introduce all these other measures, and they were covered by the. We'll talk best occasions and proposals. So working for policy, human find system of national. Insurance Providing Day to widow's pensions unemployment. Disability but Tennessee and other benefits. For the working population in all classes, nor restricted to manual workers like before. I'd also covered the nonworking wives of male contributors. It'd be funded by contributions by Kazan employs the. Louis anybody contributed their benefits. They be regarded as Dan Bright. They paid for them and benefits whenever who his source of stigma pull being supported by the rich. And if middle class people's receive them, they've stopped resenting paying taxes to help. The Pool I'm seven system was intended to improve social cohesion. A benefit would be large enough to couple all essential needs of food housing clothing, etc, five enough to live on. You often repetitive new means tested system national systems to replace the poor unprovided for people who slip through the safety net of sexual insurance, a needed help, but expected his insurance to be so brands zoo, but very few people would slip through the net, and the report was incredibly popular among the general public. It seems to imagine out but. People were queuing up to purchase copies of it. Even though it was a government document. Politics is beverage worked so hard promoted as he was on the BBC any Reid articles and being with big queue up within the month, a hundred thousand copies it being sold. The government propaganda machine them in a suit. Inflammation promoted it because they thought he could really raise wartime morale by promising improved lives off the wall, but bumpers new Burlington in twos was Churchill. He tried to stop a summary of the report. Being circulated to troops, then have giving zoos unpopular, but he never really supported beverages proposals and hope all be quietly shelved. But then we felt we making forty three backbenches one the largest anti-government boat of the war for a commitment to implementing it bumped chill, chill in the conservative still kept their distance Langbo strongly supported, and his popularity was one element in the doing so well in the forty five general election. And such as partially explain why. The report was published in Nineteen, forty two. But nothing came about as a result of it until the nineteen forty five election. What is never intended to if most of us won't on proposals that were intended to be often. The Wall and beverage never expected implementation until audible reports written with a function very clear and famously said at the time. A revolutionary moment in the world history is a time for revolutions, not for patching I suppose that. Sums this up. The Wall had been so extreme and recovery therefore needed to based on radical, thinking well fuck name for Britain, it was it was because it. It was intended to provide full. Every body was in most of the population. And providing up to liberal was the OH, poor law been really intended to conduct punish people fulsome to pined work, but part of what he's suggesting is, the state should take over much stronger roll out directing both social and economic change. Thanks pat tending to you now Bennett. The beverage report was published during the war, and its recommendations were enacted afterwards. What would the key changes to legislation got the recovery project moving? So if I could refer back to pacifist talk about PAT talks about the beverage report. The giants beverage talked about they were Wong. Take Mari- is less squalor. Sickness! And I focus on on the four of those on wont and sickness and Squalor Ignorance than that my way to approach this, the first of the sets of reforms to be introduced with the reforms effected education, which was designed to address the problem. I think nurturance. Joining the into a period, there have been a great movement to separate in effect, primary and secondary education to have a a break in the education system at the age of eleven, and that was then carried forward through the education reforms were introduced in England Wales in one, thousand, nine, hundred eighty fall, and in Scotland in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, five, one of the main aims, those rights walls to consolidate the distinction between primary and secondary education. On the second key feature walls, they decision to remove fees in secondary schools so before nineteen thirty nine in order to attend secondary school. You either needed to house a scholarship, or you need to pay a fee on the abolition of fees made secondary education much more accessible to a large section of the population. The secondary to say something about his want social security. explained a key feature. The beverage report was this idea of consolidating the different insurance schemes that had existed prior to the Second World War. Then post while policymakers built on this to construct the basis of social security system, so one part of that swallows the National Assistant Scheme, and that was intended to replace the Polo on it was designed to provide benefits for those who are otherwise facing destitution all serious poverty. And then alongside that those national insurance scheme, and the National Insurance Scheme was an attempt to provide a single insured scheme that would cover all the main risks. So before nineteen thirty nine. You had separate provision for separate insurance schemes, dealing with unemployment, sickness and retirement or old age the national. Insurance Act was designed to try to bring all those things together into a single national insurance scheme, so between the two you have scheme, which is designed to offer protection against the main social contingencies all risks, and then it's reinforced with a national assistance scheme, which provides means tested benefits in case of those benefits and all to be sufficient. The third giant that I wanted to say something about his sickness dill health. Before the Second World War. Britain had a health short scheme, the covered roughly sixty percents of the male population, roughly thirty percent of the female population. On through that scheme, in short, contributors were able to gain access to a general practitioner. But. They didn't have the full range of medical services through that in short scape. Then alongside that there were a number of different hospital services, so though the voluntary hospitals which were. Essentially charitable hospitals that had developed from eighteenth century onwards in most cases. On by nineteen, hundred nine, those being funded by a combination of chargeable payments, patient payments on insurance schemes private insurance schemes. And then alongside side then you had public sector hospitals, and they were either hospitals being run by public health committees of local authorities all they were essentially old, Paul or institutions who now being run bibles. Call the Public Assistance Committee. So one of the key recommendations, the beverage reports was the beverage, said the his plan for Social Insurance to work his plan for Social Security to work. That were certain assumptions to one of those assumptions was a comprehensive national health scheme, until that was introduced under the National Health Science Nineteen, forty six, and in Scotland Nineteen, hundred, forty seven, and as a further North Island in nineteen, forty, eight on these crater, the National Health Service that was intended to be taxpayer-funded free at the point of use comprehensive, so covered all the medical services to the post might need and universal. It was open to the entire British population. The, fourth of the giants of that. I want to pick out from beverages. beverage called SCUOLA in other words Paul Housing. Again before nineteen thirty nine launch, numbs of people were living in unsuitable accommodation is because they were living in what we're called slums or insanitary housing. Off because they were living in overcrowded accommodation, and then clearly, the wall exacerbates that because wall results in the destruction of a significant number of housing units. So there's clearly a need to rebuild Britain the truly as well as figuratively after nineteen forty five. And how did attitudes shift during the war to make these radical changes suddenly possible? I think there are a number of different aspects to that on. The first aspect that I would focus on is the. Extent to which the government was forced to into the in areas, the economy and society in order to maintain social cohesion and maintain the social fabric. Because augury, one of the lessons of the first world will was if society collapsed as home. It became impossible to maintain the war effort. Some people would argue that was ultimately. Why jumped needles? The First World War because. Domestic arrangements collapsed. So, the first thing was how you preserve civilian welfare, not sense on the government introduced a number of measures designed to do that of which the most important would have been rationing, which was designed to ensure they were were fascist. All and everyone had the food they needed in order to maintain a level of physical health, and that in turn then helped shape people's attitudes about ideas, route, entitlements and so. I think a second part of it is thought. The war has an inspection effect. This is something that to economist Alan Peacock and Jack Wiseman taught about nearly nineteen sixties. He said that the war affects the way we think about social issues in a number of ways one of them is it? It casts a kind of searchlights on existing arrangements, and it highlights the deficiencies, and that was particularly true of the hospital service, so it was on. The stars of the wall that will be lots of casualties, and therefore the health service needed to be geared up in order to deal with the casualties that would result both military casualties on civilian casualties. It's because of the threat of bombing. And so this meant they had to have a close look at the Quincy of hospital facilities around the country, and that in turn helped concentrate minds on the need to improve the coordination of hospital services and also improve quality of hospital services. One of the ways in which I think, popular attitudes are affected is that you have the social provisions which previously been regarded as unthinkable? which when circumstances change can now be fought. There's all said the idea that war's demand sacrifices walls were a great disruptions. People's lives although war was great disruption to people's lives. UNSEW in order to make this more tolerable, people needed golfer the inspiration as it were that the sacrifices would be worth. It's the what would result from this actor. FFICES was not just Nutri victory, but successor world in the future, and so that I think also helped shape attitudes. So that's bill legistlation hip her. Briefly taken through the political landscape at the end of the war, because it was quite distinctive, and it plays an important role in how all of this unfolded. The two main political parties in Britain the Conservatives, and Labour at what together in government during the conflict in a highly unusual period of cross, party corporation, and then very quickly off the end of the war came an election which changed everything so in nineteen forty five. Some, look this poison into this. Many people in the country, not least in the Conservative Party. Won. Election they had any monies to win. Hundred fifteen seats, a previous election, one, thousand, nine, hundred sixty five ten years the last. And the reproach during the wool were they expect to? The state. Coalition early the coalition setup with premise to Churchill in May. Nineteen forty thing would be trust in a shooting general-election one of the reasons why they anticipation. was because they that they would be facing the election an election in which people voted for the right because it was on the back of wall as it happened and benefited the tourists in nineteen hundred. And Nine, thousand, nine hundred, and at the end of the first will. This doesn't happen to a number of different ways. Firstly the. Currency is embedded in the government from nineteen. Words they are. Able to move away from the failures of the previous leg of nineteen, twenty nine. With. Sold and instead establish a reputation as A. Government. Indeed in some ways they managed to become Z.. CENSOR POLITICAL DEBATE DURING THE WAR S. A patch of said. What happened. was that a lot of the debate? About what does the postal? Senator subjects which spending facing labor things like housing and of course lowered proserve population housing. The retention of employment than kind of full employment, which had not happened under the Conservatives in the nineteen thirties, going into the nineteen forty five election. You have a situation where Churchill is. Push me computer as the prime minister, but he's policy is not, and it's the quality who has the election manifested queens? It lessens the future who in talking about how do we win the peace? No, the one the war Bennett has given us a sense of the kinds of changes in public attitudes that helped put the welfare state at the heart of postwar recovery. The sheds suffering prompted fresh thinking. D think same could be true today as we emerge from this shed experience of Corona virus. Think the coronavirus like the. Chest the resilience of society and demonstrates the need to tackle numbers inequalities in this, so as we should already been occurrence for a number of years so. The extent to which the economy has produced or concentrated inequalities, the insecurity of large numbers of people. It's exposed the inadequacy of universal credit and. These? The delays in payments system. Is related to that. It's expensive. Housing crisis of the numbers of homeless pick streets reliance. People upon foodbanks. None of these things we news just. As things will already hoops and there in the nineteen thirties. The wasn to saints. solution ready unlined to hand. Experience of. War Socialism or on the Organization of society full that particular Ray. Creates a disappeared the willingness to expect. Shift in. Policies at least for claim. You could see happening across the political spectrum as well. The difference now is that. The government tackling these things under the temporary provisions of the. act. We don't know is whether there is a prospect of an real paradigm shift occurring the some something that there is some kind of courage shifting mentality on the cost of the public. Would I don't see? Is If you an overarching national conversation as happened during the wall which created. Wherein, you could move decisively that urging. Bennett, did you want to add something there I mean I think that's a loss of potential the, but but I think there will reasons to be cautious. I think if you think about this in the light of experience during the Second World War then they're also things you could argue. That we have in common without periods so. First of all. I think it's probably true. The both between nineteen, thousand, nine, hundred, forty, five on the current crisis. More people have a better understanding of other people's vulnerability than they might have been previously. So, in other words, they are less inclined, or they may be less inclined to blame other people's vulnerability on the personal failures of the people themselves as a greater recognition, the people be struck by misfortune through no fault of their own. A second assume is the idea that people also have a sense of their own vulnerability that more likely to be struck down by fourteen themselves through no fault of their own. And so that sense of greater personal vulnerability may also change people's attitude towards risk risk-sharing. So. There is an argument that's another important part of the impact of the second world. War On the construction of the welfare state was that it made middle-class people feel more vulnerable themselves, and so they saw great advantages to themselves in Sherri risks. Ultimately the creation of something like the National Health Service is a way of sharing risks across the whole population rav of making each best dependent upon the measures they can take themselves to protect themselves against the risk of ill health. Another part of this is the extent to which the government has. forced by second stances to intervene in economic life in a way, which would have been unthinkable full very hard to imagine you've expected. A particularly conservative led government. To accept that it needed to pay eighty percents of the wages of roughly a third of the population or third of the employed population. This is quite turn a marketable development. I think pepper refer briefly to what happened at the end of the first World War in the flu pandemic. That I think is relevant to this discussion because. The end of the First World War although there are lots of people arguing about the importance of reconstruction. They're also lots of people arguing for return for normalcy, and for the return of business as usual. And, in the general election in one, thousand, nine, hundred eighteen, despite all the arguments, the join the first World Mall, it was the desire for normalcy that actually what out in terms of the election results over the design changed, and so those a the the Conservatives gained seats in style coffee election. Tip at you to come in there. There's a great cartoon coup two very good thing as long as made in nineteen, forty six, I think to promote the coming of the ancients mcmansion yet and it starts starts with the idea. have been a missing if unite which we've already moved to tackling. In one, thousand, nine, hundred Britain and countries, because over major outbreaks of infectious diseases cholera than inbound. His. Interest implicit or Could probably. One of the things we drank decline in anxiety about the needs of the welfare. State is the shift mortality. Until the nineteen forties and fifties, you still had large numbers of people doing from communicable diseases. Thing. That seems to happen. People start dying instead because it lifestyle diseases. Heart disease concern things that matt named feeds back into a right wing agenda. Old people suffer because of what they do. They thankless. They deserve to final the difference infectious diseases. Thanks everyone affecting an issue. The Pool for infectious diseases. You're also protecting yourself in other words Roy's in nine hundred south interest. and. Creating that sense of enlightened self interest because the most people unknown sufficient altruistic Scott. Let's. Trusted Together that's just a piece of rhetoric in the end. You need to get a sense that blinkprotect. Protecting Renzo practice the only way you get people to say the importance of it, and that's what happens during signal blake, protecting the people. You were protecting yourself as well because bone still indiscriminately, the degradations of the women discuss the risk of a Nazi. Victory in the wool was indiscriminate. An order that tend. To create more of a sense of actually we need to work with people who we needed to practice. Probably look down seems being different and creating a sense in which even going may student lakes six on the. Scene to with. Thanks, PIPPA I think that's a nice night on which to end. Whether or not. We agree that the second world will or de Covid nineteen all great levellers. It does seem as though there are useful parallels foster drawer on individuals. As much as anything, it seems that fresh thinking about shared experiences. The came vital element postwar recovery. Cetinje something will pondering at the moment, T. So that just leaves me to say, thank you for joining me to talk about the origins of the British welfare state and recovery from the Second World War. Thanks to pat thanks visiting professor in history at Birkbeck college fine. Bennett Harris Professor of social policy at the University of Strathclyde. And PIPPA cattrall professor of history and policy at the University of Westminster. From cute. Thought was the conversations politics editor Laura Hood? We'll be back next week with Paul. Five of our recovery series explores the collapse of the Soviet Union in Nineteen Ninety one, and how the different countries of the former US Esau and communist eastern bloc recovered from the economic crisis that ensued. In the meantime, you can read more about Britain's recovery from the second world wool and parallels to all Karuna virus recovery today on the conversation, com. Or written by academic experts. If you're enjoying this podcast. Please tell your friends about us or give us a review wherever you listen. This episode of the Ant Hill was produced by Laura. Hood, Jennifer and me Annabel, bligh with sound design by Stevens. Thanks for listening goodbye.

Britain National Health Service PAT thane Bennett Conservatives Bennett Harris Professor of so Sickness Laura Hood giants Paul Housing University of Strathclyde University of Westminster editor Churchill UK professor of history Lisbon Europe
Major changes in human history linked to geological forces

The Science Show

10:37 min | 2 years ago

Major changes in human history linked to geological forces

"We'll end with a book one you may have heard of called origins by Louis Donal from the university of Westminster. Where did we come from? What's next you've been on ABC radio a couple of times recently with Phillip Adams talking about continental drift, and the whole story on big ideas with a wonderful picture of virtually the whole of the history, which is rather wonderful. And I just want to pick up on a few ideas there, which fantastically interesting about origins. And the first one is about that continental drift which necessarily so incredibly slow we've been around for any about five minutes. How is it that we were affected by continental drift itself when it's really so slow and so far away. Yeah. The the entirety of human story has fitted into sensually a single frame right of the end of the movie of the film of earth history. We've we've been here for geological. Blink of an eye. And although plate tectonics achingly slow process, the earth is an old place. And so this process of continental drift and plate tectonics has been acting over the millions and billions of years to create the configuration of the world today. The charge of the planet that we've grown up on was created by plate tectonics. And this is everything from the pattern of mountain ranges on on the land masses. And the arrangement of the oceans, and therefore the stage of the human story was crafted by plate tectonics. I won't particular example, I pick up on in origins in the book is something. We're all familiar with the Mediterranean has been bubbling cauldron of a whole huge diversity of different cultures and society and civilizations throughout team in history of thousands and thousands of years from the atrocities and the Romans and the Greeks, and my seniors and the Phoenicians, but when you think about it most of those cultures were all on the northern lip of this oval shape, see of mid training, not along the bottom. Half and on the north African coast. So why would it be? Why is this the sharp contrast between the north and south of this tiny inland sea and in terms of the human story? A man it self comes down to plate tectonics because Africa has been writing north for the last few million years and his crushing into the bottom of Eurasia of of Europe and Africa is being subjected beneath your so it's crumpled up this huge chain of mountain ranges from the kind of Alps of the cop Athens. And then as they see levels have risen again. It's essentially drowned this crumpled up landscaped give you thousands of natural inlets and coves and bays and natural harbours. So the north coast of the in training is just intrinsically well setup for seafaring society a history, whereas because Africa's being subtracted and swallowed into the bowels of the earth. It's in comparison, very boring flats unaccommodating coastline. So something is distinct as the difference of two coastlines of HUD, profound effect on our story. I'm reminded from what you say about one of the stories of Greece with all those islands, and therefore all different communities that was variety there as they adapted and their different ways mid like the creatures on the Galapagos and the professor of classics at King's College. She's written a book about ways in which that was the foundation for civilization and the birth of democracy because you had such a variety coming together and interacting in different ways in the trade because of the landscape absolutely exactly that this all cappella, God is sputtering of islands keeps each city state distinct and unable to work togetherness, constantly fluctuating system of war and peace between the different states. But that emergence of democracy in Greece is very interesting as well. Because in the bronze age, the style of warfare was is basically chariots you have find a plane to for the two armies to meet new ROY charts and each other. But that was something not possible in the very hilly rough terrain of Greece where instead you fight mainly with infantry. And every man is protected by the man to his rights to aside the shield, so there was kind of inbuilt into Greek society in Greek warfare. This notion of standing by your fellow man, which is thought then matured in terms of the way, choose your leaders and choose the course of your society with emergence of democracy and Athens in particular was almost inherited from just the shape of the landscape is interesting now leaping is always been a puzzle to work out. How it is that in a stray Leo human beings came so quickly from Africa unless the timing was slightly askew. And the latest has been about two years ago in up up in the north signs in the cave of pretty modern people being there sixty five thousand years ago, by modern, I mean with culture using all Kronos sorts of ceremonial stuff there in the cave and then moving south both west and east. But slowly in other words, the evidence from the. Genetic drift has shown that people state in places for ten thousand years, and it's quite story. But will what's the answer to our emergence from Africa coming here so quickly? And also, of course, we go the now the tennis ovens as well as Neanderthals we were created as a species is exquisitely intelligence species of ape of HAMAs options in the free quirky environment of east Africa all intelligence was created. It was given to us by this combination of the plate tectonics going on east Africa at that time. Those five minutes revolution and about interacting with these calls MC cycles, so could mind coverage cycles with little wobbles in arts tilt around the sun. So we've created is intelligent species. People didn't stay in cradle in east Africa. And we burst out of east Africa about sixty five seventy thousand years ago. And it's thought that we headed I along the southern margin of Eurasia, we basically kept to the tropical region that we were familiar with and kept the coast we access. S to fish and other resources that seekers you so you're right. We got pretty quickly to southern eastern corner of your Asia. But the world was very different back. Then we were in the depths of the last ice age and these huge thick ice sheets sat along the northern hemisphere. The world sucked up so much water of notions. That the sea levels are about hundred hundred twenty meters low, and it just exposed this contents of margins as dry land. So large extent we we're able to populate entire world because of those special conditions of the ice age. We could walk these land bridges who Sunderland bridge through southeast Asian and able to reach pump New Guinean, an Australia, but most importantly, Margie belief the human story, we're able to walk cross the Bering land bridge from Siberia into Lasca NFL, populate, the western hemisphere walkie, we could reach the Americas. And you mentioned already that the Neanderthals in Denisovans. So these sibling human species inhabiting the world the same time as us and what I found. That's incredible. Is that idea that notion that today, we are looney specie Bill the only human species on the earth, but very recently geologically speaking we shared world with with our cousins with other human species. But when we crossed the Bering land bridge into the Americas. We were walking were no human species at ever trod before we were the first human species home, assassins were the first treats the Americas. And then as the only sage eased again, and the sea level started to rise these land bridges once again, what's wallowed beneath the waves and these two great populations of humanity in Eurasia and the Americas were separated from each other to independent experiments in domesticating wall species in the emergence of agriculture and development of civilizations. That happened completely independently in niece management in the western hemisphere. It's fascinating it. But then when you look at the genetic story, we have amongst aboriginal people here Dennis oven jeans. And we also have as I sit here, and I recognize in you you've got two percent Neanderthal genes. You see that on my forehead? Causse some not. We're all wants Macy's. But there's variation. Yeah. But Denisovans somehow in you NEW GUINEA, and here there was a flavor and many people think adaptation to the local conditions. In other words, if you're resistant to certain of the pests mosquitoes are I know diseases, then you can somehow adopt the local resistance and on you go south on you. Go amazing story, isn't it as migrated through century. So all non African populations around the world carry within them a little bit of Neanderthal DNA or a little bit of Benesova DNA. So we clearly interact with these other human species and Cleveland quite friendly with into bread with them. And we took on board our own genome. This'll signatures of their DNA, which we then marched around the world is dispersed with us a modern European populations have between two and four percents of Neanderthal. Dna, and there's been some really fascinating tends to research papers as move that Neanderthal. Dna was in some pointer defining feature. What neighbors turn in having the world and become so capable as species Lewis Dartnell from the university of Westminster and he returns next week with the geological origins of Brexit. Yes. Origins is the name of his terrific book, which also hear from Kim car. The shadow minister for science on Labour's plans. Should they win the sign shows produced by my typewriter by David Fisher? And Mark, Don, I'm Robin Williams and our music was by handle their land brought forth frogs so Brevet from me. No. Grown.

Africa east Africa Eurasia Americas Bering land bridge university of Westminster Greece Athens ABC Phillip Adams Louis Donal Africa HAMAs Asia Mediterranean Sunderland bridge HUD ROY Cleveland Lewis Dartnell
Shola Mos-Shogbamimu on disrupting the status quo

A Podcast of One's Own with Julia Gillard

43:04 min | 7 months ago

Shola Mos-Shogbamimu on disrupting the status quo

"I'm Julia Gillard, and this is a podcast of one's own. I'm offended by the lack of women in positions of leadership and the way those that do make it a traitor. Die I helped lead the Global Institute for Women's leadership at King's College London headquartered in Virginia Woolf building? In Notch Twenty Nine Virginia say she aspired for women authors to have the space to write in a room of one's own. Here I want women leaders too have a podcast once. My guest today is a feminist who's a force to be reckoned with she seemed to collect university qualifications and has a law degree to master's a PhD in an executive. Mba Amazingly, she was only. When she completed her first qualification. She now practices as a lawyer in the US and UK and routinely speaks about an organizers against sexism and racism. She's an inspirational woman and her example should encourage all of us to get out there and make a difference I'm talking about Dr Shola most shocked Bamu Shola. You once said you live in a world where the color of your skin is. Used to define you and sit boundaries around you and you've also said that racism is another form of slavery just without visible chains when you were growing up in Lagos Nigeria, what was your experience of rice? There was no such experience north me and my experience growing up was very much that of a child doing what needs to be done. You go to school you have a childhood. My parents I I recall. I I can appreciate it more because I'm older now. But. That was brought up it never occurred to me, for instance, he by so white person that does something extra special about that. They were just another person so much so that I recognize that when I'm all Dr if I walk into a room I, don't immediately recognized I'm the only black person, the room or them the only woman in the room none of registered. Has something to do with our how I was brought up. In fact, the only thing that truly registers Shalah's arrived right because as the only thing that matters. Here now, people what's up. As a child growing up my my values where very much rooted in being the best I could be my father was a feminist. If I don't think he would have used the word family to describe yourself. But everything he did is definitely how you distribute feminist he always said to be. Spread your wings and fly go do what you need to do. He never understood the concept of a housewife. There's nothing wrong with being a housewife, but he never understood the concept he was always like have kids get married, get a job, run a business do whatever you want to do delegated things you need to delegate you know back in Nigeria you could have home you can have a driver you have sold who works for US Little Deli. So for him, it's like if you have people can delegate do that doesn't stop you from getting up on going out there and doing what you need to do I also remember when I was about to do my finished my. PhD. Oh Godfather. If I could just close by here. My vibe was at one of the buildings. And I remember going to Nigerian on the supervisor who examined me. Is. The fact they just went very much is ready to defend my work like. Long enough you know law I didn't like really really like your work. We have no amendments no revision so Congratulations my word. You know what I did God bless you. and. That's your children Algebra's children. Our I just went taught I I remember coming out of the building screaming to my husband. Oh by God it started. But I remember speaking to my father and this was a few months I was not to know that this was going to be a few months before he passed away. I said to you know I really want to do an NBA by these two kids as well and I had a fulltime job. Yet. He said, don't worry. You will do it you to get don't worry about it. But I was thinking of I feel tired and still so much to do on my list of my mental list. So don't worry about it. You wanted to be you do not a problem and then he passed away in January and I remember I was formats pregnant. This is me thinking he was sixty four when he passed away. I realized I can rest on my laurels for some reason I went six as very young see if I wanted to do anything I better just do it now you don't just get only because I was going to take some time we lax maybe get only because I was working and all of that, and immediately I applied to do the NBA at Cambridge was the only one. On University, apply to the only I wanted to do that. I could accept it but I was asked to do the G. Matt's because usually have to do gym mats to do together G. Mat score imagine a fulltime job at Takeda Pregnant got. So I wrote them a Detailed letter as to why my experience and present qualifications suffices for whatever they require. Did. I came back and he accepted at up to my an ad that I for me I think goes back to my childhood as well and my faith, which is always do your best walk hard and her faith in yourself a lot of that group up expedition racism. In migos did not like that. I never got a sense of I am different from somebody else because of the color of my skin. To deal with more things like I'm a girl or your boy walking girls do a Congo. Goes through for fortunately, I had parents who believed in me and my siblings, and there was never any different station between. Go Do so site or perceptions where there but my father and my mother were very much. You can do whatever you set your mind to do and going to those societal perceptions. Can you remember a moment where you know for the first time? Maybe in a school room or community group? The Penny dropped that people trade girls differently it's whether or not I clued into it as quickly as I should have. I don't know what you were like Oh you're yoga but I remember young, there were certain things I cared about and there's certain things I just care about right and if it did not impact my immediate enjoyment of a good book or good food or it wasn't getting on my nerves I might not have really paid attention to it but I think it is really more when I left home to come do my university degree and so you'll I agree just we've got so many degrees I think we need to try and put them in sometime. Obviously. He grew up in Nigeria and then you went way to do your first degree. So I did my first degree here in London my degrees in law and at the University of Buckingham I was born here in the United Kingdom my parents traveled a bit. We also lived in the states for bed but my father was he always said this even when I grow the is like in my country, I'm always a first class citizen. So he's idea mentality was always well, we'll go back home do what we have to do. So I'm so grateful that'll opportunity to grow in I did part of my promise qualification my second. Great. In Laos but I didn't it wasn't until I was here in the UK for my first degree seventeen at that time that the penny dropped about how the perceptions girls on. Women. And I think the reason the penny dropped is because I wasn't home where my parents would have shielded me a protected me from certain things right out go do one needs to be done. I would always be shielded from certain things right. But here in university quite front, you're not old and you're on your own, right. So it was pretty much how things like gum I remember this was with other students but I remember this production were meant to put on I was going to be one of the actresses. On it? Larry. I got through to the end but which was fun the way I remember being treated as a girl compared to others when they had a disagreement with the guy direct didn't think was very different I I wanted what's the problem? Is it me and I realize there was that's in about Oh she's a girl we can speak to her anyhow a took me a while to understand because at first I thought it was me. And I realized it wasn't just me. It's also because what I'm seeing exactly what this person said, but this was not being treated the same way because he's a guy. But by the response I'm getting such disdain and then that's just one of the examples other things were copying up. I was like Oh this doesn't look on sound right and because of that age it was a I I'm house facing such things as you would probably go sexier more misogyny it. Takes me the heck off absolutely but I think I needed to find my voice, what was my voice and my voice was not just to get annoyed about it or be emotional about it. You know US women we get angry about something all of a sudden way motion. Now, we are not emotional where we are expressing our displeasure at the event itself that kind of opened my mind. So when it was not time to look for work, remember finish my degree. See drew my LPC and you're looking for work and the kind of experiences I had in the workplace I went. Okay I'm understanding better what all these things are. I'm hoping that with my three girls because I have three girls that I I'm hoping that as growing older now that I will do a better job in letting them know this exists when they're anywhere without mummy or daddy the recognize it for what it is. I remember being in a supermarket in the university town as I approached the till. The reaction of the cashier was immediately go not. You know I don't want to serve you. There was something there was something so wrong. It. Wasn't I don't want to serve you because I have close. There was something about how she said it to me they immediately within my spirit, I knew this is not because I'm a customized because of something else. and. I couldn't put my thing on it immediately but my gut told me it was wrong again remember I didn't grow up facing racism in May Gos- or in a I it took me to realize that even though we should speak into the way she looked at me she made she made several comments that made me realize call of my skin. I went okay. I couldn't pick up the phone and call but due. To give I called my dad loads of times event about God, knows how many things but this things that kind of creep up on you and then you have to find your way. To. Them when I was younger, I was one of these people because I was brought up to be very polite. My Gut reaction to say something I will hold it back because I didn't want to come across as impolite I. Didn't want to hurt the other person's feelings. That's not happening now. That's not happening. Now I WANNA talk to you about finding your voice. But before we do that, let's just skip the formal save out there. So you come as a very young I would say go. I think I'm entitled to say go you come and study here in the UK you get you Lord agree you then practices a lawyer for a period of time so my first degree, then you have to go through school rush. So I go through law school while House during law school I. Practice I got experience along the way could be a whole documentary about my whole experience dried to get work. But it turned out to be really valuable for me because I got to find out what area of law I like I would area of law I don't want to practice. So I figured out that as as passionate as I am about people's lives are making showed justice prevails criminal laws now for me because be to passionate I'm I'll be one of this be without carrying my work home and the world here end of it and I realized that I enjoyed commercial corporate law for more and I wouldn't do administrative law did all this little bit said, and I finally realized which area of law. That I liked which was really good I did my law school i. also did then my master's degree in diplomatic studies because I wanted to do something slightly different from law and I've always loved international relations but when I applied either I was too late or I applied for international relations and iding get it. So I did the next one I thought looked really interesting as close international relations possible, which is diplomatic studies which was absolutely fascinated at University of Westminster. Loved loved. Loved. Loved it. The only thing law if I recall was international law and then I did my law degree in. Corporate goal throughout this time I was working I did that then it was time to get in this country when you? You did L. P. to become a solicitor, but you need to have training contract you need to have two years contract. Oh, Lord I applied and applied in applied and was such a journey of Costa's very competitive. You get only so much. It's only much later that I realize that as a black woman in this country things like my name. Things like even getting through the first step of the interview. You come across as likable like your paper, but all these roots of why it's difficult or their challenges for more and more black women to get through especially those of. African descent all of that with things that goes like me with a face. But you see I didn't let that stop me because again, the way I was brought up I, my attitude is I, know the statistics out there that say, okay you know what? Because you're black because you're you`re Only this is what it looks like for ethnic minorities. My attitude has always been a no statistics has met me yet, and so I have to do the best that I can do but it was a journey and I learned from it. So I qualified as New York attorney, which immediately made me an attorney because you don't need any training contract with that and then I qualified here Over there and then could bring it exactly exactly and now mental law graduates. The reach out and say this is one I'm to and I'm like Dory everything's GonNa be okay because I wish I'd had someone like me to tell me here your options nobody was to tell me here your options I had to work out myself and find a long way, and then I did my phd and this will crack you up. Do we my PhD. So my phd should take me like three years i. think either doing about five or so years which time I had two kids. At. It's very good go. To take a lot longer than that to do they pay hd without having the children as well. I. When I had a baby, I'll ticket you know a few months break, then get back to it, but then I was still determined to get it through I. Remember one day I. Think it was in my workplace, add to submit another chapter to my supervisor. And she wanted me to read something philosophy you news where my these is was on corruption I remember going to the toilet or work put putting my head in my head in my hands going shot in the name of God, who sent you why on top of everything else you have to do you pilot this on but I knew I wanted to do it. I needed to go through this paid. To be able to get to the side of it. So I remember having French who dropped out of law school. Because they had to receipt papers, I, received papers, I kid you not I remember calling my father. In on the phone I said I can't believe. I feel this people couldn't what what it? What was he conveyancing convincing? I can't believe I did I ended because you see it was not my plants. The plan was do this I do something and then I could do something else. So it's holding me back. Call me. Can you go? This is my father. To me vent in. Eagles. Are you done? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. This is now expected to tell me what to do tell. My father goes. Well, you should be grateful that you're going through this your early twenties a you know in this wing forty. I think. Hearing what? I just said to you. This is. How does that people passed it? I will just as I said, there's no point complaining about it will you have to do is get back to it. Wa- card I'm pass and they said listen to me success has lots of brothers and sisters us. When you're done all people see we'll be the full package. It's not written on your forehead how long it took? Do you know that has stayed with me? for over twenty years since he said it, I mean it's resonates. So strongly. So now where people reach to me and go oh, my cultural dot so much. Oh my coffee for cheat so much first of all I'm surprised that they notice right and I'm like Oh wait hold on a second no, no, no, no, let me tell you the journey. Don't be don't be moved by what looks like the accomplishments. Let me tell you how I had to receipt exams. Explain to you how I put my head in my hands going in. Got Him on my doing with this. Of course so much to do blah blah blah. Let me tell you by the time I had to cry to be able to get through to the other side. So please don't be overly impressed. Listen to the journey and let the journey inspire you rather than the end product that makes absolutely. But no one is saying to you any longer what about that conveyancing during that nobody in in this journey win did you brought up to be pilot go a lot young woman who presumably if confronted with conduct whether it was six store racist your immediate. Reaction would have been to just still be polite. Winning this journey, did you find your voice? When would you have said to you? So for example, I get it I want to be a feminist. This is a world that has a system that influences women's lives and limits choices. When would have that moment of fame God i Wish I could pinpoint what the moment was but what I can probably share with you. It was a series of moments. My voice was there that voice doesn't just come from nowhere it's always been there and. It may come up in certain circumstances but in the majority out always remember it's like my mother is talking to shallow behave yourself okay. But gradually I think the more I got ticked off and that's the thing with me I realized that might trigger. Is when I get really ticked off about something that's when I go. You know what bring it and got the point for me when I realized that I was tired of so certain personal things. One of those people in my early twenties someone upset me am I say something but then when I get home, I wish I'd said more I used to give me such headache. So, gradually, I made up my mind I'm not going to do that anymore you'll be the one to go home and we should have something to me because I'm GonNa tell you exactly what I think right now chalets going home wishing shared said ABC that is not happening again. This still jump between finding that voice and that confidence to navigate your own life even if it brings you into what can be an uncomfortable conversation with someone in authority is a jump between that and being out there in the media and public person. Can you talk to me about how you made that jump what inspired you to do that? Why? Okay. So what triggered me was that I really really got ticked off did I tell you that might trigger go? In. We use a different words. I know I know more likely to peace style actually what I would say pissed off that is actually end. Because the jump for me came from the impact, the negative impact on the quality of life of choice of people. That honestly just makes my blood boil and I'm not talking about how something affects me 'cause I realized when something affects me Yeow House something i. made me so angry, I feel. When affect somebody else and that Fleming was the huge jump understanding how they're so many voiceless in this world it breaks my heart when I see the injustice met it out to people who speak for themselves when they try to their knocked out, it absolutely pisses me off and that that is actually what got me more I suppose visible in not restraining my my thoughts in how I feel about certain things beating politics culturally socially things like that I would just open my mouth say something needs to be said my daughter I believe you at the much for women. My thirteen year old came out with me for the first time and She joined the march. She heard me speak and you know what she said to be afterwards she said Mommy Wild finally, your sheltie voice has appropos. Well let's gripe price from the. Fine. No I see where your your voice has finally found. It's Somewhere. So Divided by this, giving a voice to people lose struggle to have their perspectives heard, you necessarily taken some risks though haven't you mean for we know I mean all the research shows and I've talked to women about this a lot on the podcast. The leave experiences. If you step out and put view, you become publicly known how the social media the analysis of you. The pushback can be pretty extreme. How have you experienced that it has? been unrelenting online abuse they seem to be able me somehow. So not just my DM's on twitter or facebook they they find my email, they go through my website find me on Youtube again messages you monkey you ugly woman or your joke what are things that interests me is how now when they can't seem to get at me because they don't get the response they want to go shall we know you possibly believe what you say? Can anybody meets me at here be speaking thing that I don't believe what I say. I say what I say for I don't know public scrutiny and Some kind of fame and that's how we works but. With you. What helps me a lot through. This is my faith I'm a Christian. So for instance, when I remember the first time, I, saw the One of those are messages all you ugly you this. I suppose my first reaction was. This Person No, you don't know me but you decided that because you can't debate me on the merit of my words you want to attack me physically all this went through my head in a nanosecond because in the same nanosecond. My face reminded me. You know using the words of the Bible that I am wonderfully fearfully made by God. I don't need you to tell me I'm fine because I know I'm fine. Because, God told me I'm five I'm good and I think it comes with the territory shouldn't abuse should not come with, but we know it comes with it. I'm fine with people not agreeing with me goodness out kind of lawyer. Would I be I'm not ready to deal with people are the other side who think differently for me? What I find that they cannot handle the fact that I can speak my mind and defend my opinion the way that I do babs as expectation that either we pull enough abuse a she was shot up not understanding that it actually achieved exact opposite because when I see what I see I, see for me I see it because of others who experiencing the pain, the injustice inequality women, ethnic minorities, the economic inequality experienced by so many the irresponsible incompetence of our current government at I will call it out as I find it and people seem to think that because I passionately defend what I think's I will speak passionately I do how to wise. I. Think I was born screaming passionately out of my mother. And if you step just a little back from the politics of today and perhaps look at the the years since you first came here as a seventeen year old to study what he spader and what is worse about rice and sexism looking at the UK across those years is it better? Is it worse? What do you think it's it's definitely not better I think the only main difference is that. We have much more vocal about it women are much more from my perspective what I sees that we are much more confident a louder about talking about it. We refuse to be put down as it hush hush. You know women are calling it out in a way that we did in twenty years ago and we did not ten years ago does not mean that women were not calling out then but right now it's almost like the me too movement as totally. Given us a whole different power shift. So younger girls talk about it my thirty year old daughter is talking about it in a way that we didn't before the silence. Wall of silence is broken. That's what I see. I think we are fighting hard to ensure that the so-called policies that organizations are meant to how to address issues of sexism misogyny laws that meant to protect us. From discrimination actually bid the fruit that they're meant to beer and how important is role modeling. You've clearly identified that important in the law because you've established a program to promote women and diverse leadership in the legal profession. How important do you think role modeling is how important pain for you? How important do you think it is for you third year old daughter for the next generation. Okay. So the first allow say is I would be able to understand that. Your first rule is always you when people ask me Oh is so so your role model I have women that have inspired me I truly admire their strength their resilience but again, I think through my journey I realized that my I will do is actually me. The person that I compete against each years my birthday comes up is actually me of the last shall I would have done this year you know how productive have we been? But it is spy a ring and motivating to find other women who are disrupting the starter school breaking down the boundaries because it saves to be as as all of us including my fifty year old that they can do it we can do to. When you're given an opportunity at work or maybe invite invited to come sit on board and then you know you kind of feel all the only recent be asked is because I'm a woman. Only, as because I'm a black woman, only reason I've been asked us because you know I have disability as it doesn't matter why you've been asked in fact, that is the most irrelevant part of the whole equation wall matters is what you do. What you've been given. That is all now matters. So that is my attitude because if they thought for instance, let's give it to her that would help shut everybody off of we do have a woman. then. You come in, you use what you begin to the floodgates. They'll be going. What would we think? We thought she was nice quiet well dependable where we didn't know she was going to be a troublemaker. Yes. You open up the floodgates on more women like you come through. They like Oh, we were planning for these suckers. You disrupt the starts school. But I like that I mean the Media Commentary Women Leadership Mentoring for other women. It's a very full agenda what will the next five ten years by for you. I'm about to out. I wish to God I knew one of the things I realize in the last couple of years is to have an open mind. So at the beginning of each year, what I do is I right now my goals I'm sure everybody does something similar I write down my goals for the air and I look at my goals or the previous here's what I didn't get to see I still want to do it if i the okay let me move to this year. If I don't want them, I've moved on something else better came. But my faith teaches me to have an open mind because if I set my mind on the things I want a written now do. I, find that I don't see the opportunities that may come my way and it could just be as wonderful. Just I've not thought of them doesn't mean that it's not meant to be right and a couple of years ago just keeping an open mind. So when people approach me opportunities. You know that never crossed my mind to do, and then I find that I'm really good at it and it's so much fun testing. Let's do that. Set the next five, ten years I'm trusting God. I think for me is to continue to support and help I. I hope a whole lot more people that I've ever done before because that's what my heart is at. One of the really hurts me. I hear stories of young girls who in different. In other countries who desperately want to have an education but cannot afford to and as one who is an academic enthusiast I understand the what they want to break away from whatever it is that the family has been through maybe they will be the first to go to university. They don't want to follow through into becoming a housemaid or having to go get married so that they can list on something that I want to do something announced to do something. So many things all my heart and in my head to I'm trusting God that the things that I've not. Thought of yet that I get to do this next five, ten years. One of the things I tell my daughters I asked my oldest when she was younger as so what you want to be when you grow up on an author and it's you, her head is always full of characters. She's always writing a book. If you see a smiling because she's just done something with the characters, I'm not very good by needed to focus on posture exams. So I said okay, you want to be an offer that's excellent. Comma what else mommy would be another? You'll be another come. What else? Would you mean Sweden there too many Commerz in your life. Okay. So you can be an author you can be she loves animals you can be a vet come up. You can be businesswoman come all of these things. So don't think in an author is just it? No, you can so much more. Fine fine for. The next five, ten years. Let's watch this space I'm excited. Let's think big. Now you've mentioned you faith a few times. Some would think that there is a contradiction between feminists philosophy and outlook, and some of the teachings of faith had you see that? I suppose first of all, my life experience `nother philosophy. Being a feminist is not a it's not a theoretical thing. I'm putting into practice is just who I am. My faith is not a philosophy and put it into practice is part and parcel of who I am. I don't do religion I find a lot of the impositions of religion really self imposed patriarchal sense of what should be done. As a Christian. My faith I have I have a relationship with God. That's all I said. So we copied the money and go hey, father what's up that? That's my relationship with God. So I'm not sitting going who I better pre this way or you know brimstone and fire, and that's not that's not what that's my relationship with God. And I know for a fact when people sometimes have this this with other people or you can't do that Christian that's on the way to do it. This is God save if you're a Christian, you have to be this kind of Christian. You have to be a Catholic or you have to be Baptist and say, look, this is my understanding I had this really funny feeling. Than when we all die? Yes, which we will at some point. And we meet our maker at this funny feeling that this could be no special gates for Catholics. Those special gates for Muslims no special gate for Jews we will all be there together and in my in my heart of hearts are few God is GonNa say. Yeah. So what did you do what I gave you? You can go oh God you know. I'm Krista not just Alba Catholic. Yeah. You all believe right your fake what did you? What did you make? How did you Dabbled Street love were you love to people I? Think that is where he's going to be coming from or by my daughter's corrected this world I overheard a conversation in which my seven year old went. You know people should Cauda she? Bought in ninety my head and then I tell you goes know God is gender neutral. I'm like, I. Think we're doing something right here. It is I'm comfortable referring to God heat, but I also understand that God is neither he no she is. So I think it's important for people to understand that faith is a very personal thing but I think we need to do more as feminist to support each other without. Feeding into the negative narrative that the Patriarch Yordi imposing on us if that makes sense but your question about faith and feminism. Me I am one and the same and it's personal to me. We always end the podcasts with a standard set of questions we've taken to putting to people effect, and he's your fact to respond to at the Global Institute Women's leadership. We published research with IPSOS. Mori. For International Women's studies. which showed that over a quarter of men around the world though it was okay to tell jokes of a sexual nature in the office and one in ten thought it was acceptable to display content of a sexual nature at work. Those figures surprise you know no not at all, I. Think it only reflects it reflects society. You know the practice, the culture that's what he does. Right men have been doing this from time immemorial women have had to. Put up with it for the longest time, and then when we make noise about the now we've seen as though we troublemakers. Some of US don't want to ruffle any feathers we just wanted to work. Now. Go home. So if that means, you're for a lot of women if that means green beer it, that's what they do. But the problem with that and don't get me wrong I totally understand because under you just have to pick your battles but the problem with that is that those same men will be the same ones though end up being in the board Rupe. CEO Position CEO position. They'll be the one making decisions that impact the quality of life of the female employees. because he thinks something's okay. Imagine what they think about policies album necessary to improve the choices the benefits of their female employees they don't check them in place when they're not yet in the fullness of their power. How you do that when they get to that top job. So I think we need to be much more active can say something what's the worst misogyny you've had to do with in your life I? Think probably what comes to my mind is what I've seen other women experience. Again, my first reaction is always to go to what other people and I've heard some really awful things that women have experienced in the workplace. To such an extent that they've had to leave work because it's really uncomfortable to work there and it's impacted their ability to get promoted. Basically, if you don't told the light, you don't get promoted, you get promoted you don't earn more and we end up the primary care givers, right whether it's of their children or their family members, their parents. So that kind of Misogyny it really pisses me off especially when it inevitably leads to discrimination at work sex discrimination don't work includes two. I've seen this with some people that I've worked with when I work with within my advocacy and activism work where it's led to them be nearly raped. And then they don't have the money to take their employers to court, and for some of them, they suffer such significant mental health issues. THAT IMPACTS Their career and how they can go ahead and get better job a better money. It's it's it's awful. It's really bad. But if anything they experienced tells me. I cannot afford to be silenced fought to be quiet. So come what may as long as I'm alive this mouth is giving me going to keep talking if anyone's going to be silenced, it will not be. If you had all the power in the world in your hands just for a few moments. What would be the one thing you would change for women. Does it have to be one thing. Tried to one thing I might let you Smith. An extra one. Think money to me is a defense I. Know we hear the love of money is the root of all evil pack that Money is a defense. So what I would do if I had the power to do so would be to putting laws policies and have consequences where such policies and. Laws are breached, but the PUP was of the the laws of policies would be to give women the financial and economic. Growth and empowerment they need in business. So no more of that nonsense sexism that female entrepreneurs experience when they tried to get funding for their businesses. A welfare benefits none of this nonsense about or you know because you wouldn't go to see you only have two kids anything else. You. Have to fund for Yourself I think it has to be much more sensible but the way that it's been divided that you can only get certain types of benefits without recognizing for instance that you're looking for work you're also you need help with other things, your kids childcare especially for working mothers women want to have a career that we bid who want to have a career. There are women who want to be stat homes at. Thank you God for them, but they're women who want to have a career. A money is usually the key they they either stop stuff. Moving on in a career. Because they end up spending all their money on childcare. So, chuck and needs to be much more affordable. So money. Money for me would be this big embodiment to address a lot of the issues because he women have financial independence please girl we will rock this world we never have, and we miss we'll also have access to justice we cut pay. To deal with a lot of discrimination that we experience some money. That's the defense right there. The junior wolf says it is far more difficult to murder a phantom than a reality show listens. Charlotte says. It is far more important to be unapologetically you then to apologize and to defend who you are. I just beyond apologetically you in everything you have to do 'cause you not I love that. Thank you very much. Thank you. Only goodness. You've been listening to a podcast of one's own with Julia Gillard from the Cleveland Chief Women's leadership at King's College London. For more information on our work and to sign up for updates visit mclovin institute for Mincy to ship website. This podcast being produced by lizzie Allen and James Miller with kings online and digital by nick. Hilton. Liked what you've been listening to these racing reviewers with your preferred podcast provider in combat. Next for another episode of the podcast of one's own, Virginia cannot. Looking for a new. PODCAST. To listen to. Here's what we love courtesy of. a-cash recommends. Kathy Kaye at I'm Carlos Watson British journalist. In America I'm an American journalist in America. We're bringing you a brand new podcast from the BBC World Service Ozzy media when he met. With less than two months to go until a momentous American election, we're going to be looking at some of the hottest issues facing. Americans. Right now, it'll be an honest conversation thinking about where America is coming from and where it goes into caddy met Carlos, just search for when caddy met Carlos.

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How to Drastically Improve Your Intuition & How Planet Earth Has Shaped Who You Are

Something You Should Know

47:15 min | 1 year ago

How to Drastically Improve Your Intuition & How Planet Earth Has Shaped Who You Are

"Today on something you should know your shoulders. Tell people a lot about you. I'll explain exactly what then developing your intuition who wishes and understanding the fascinating ways it works. If there's a strong emotional charge your most likely not coming from intuition intuition usually happens when it's your very calm and all of a sudden you get an insight about a certain direction for a certain action steps to take in your life plus proven techniques that worked to lose wait without dieting and the fascinating ways the earth has shaped human history from the soil to the climate even how the winds blow in fact to reading let california cities like los angeles and san diego in san francisco the reason luke cities were founded the very first place since buni plus you you get to the pacific ocean dictated by the wind picking hundred all this today on something you should know you probably don't give a whole lot of thought to your deodorant but maybe you should after all you apply to a very sensitive area and whatever's it can be absorbed into your skin and i know there have been some concerns about health risks of some deodorant ingredients so now i've switched to native deodorant. 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Coaches visit native deodorant dot com and use the promo code s. y. S. k. during checkout somethingyoushouldknow fascinating intel intel the world's top experts and practical advice. You can use in your life today something he should now it. Mike carruthers hi. Welcome to something you should know. I am very happy to announce that coming soon very soon we will be launching a third episode assode every week. People have said yeah. I listened to the episodes you release on mondays and thursdays. I listened to those during the week. I don't have anything to listen to on the weekend and so we are going to be releasing a weekend episode starting very very soon. I up today your shoulders. Your shoulders are screaming naming joe navarro former f._b._i. Counter intelligence agent says that shoulder speak is one of the most telling forms of body language. He says clinical depression almost always shows itself in the shoulders as if the shoulders are weighed down by sadness broad straight straight shoulders are likely attached to someone who is strong confident and ready to lead so it's a good idea to take notice of how you hold your shoulders others because it does send a message also shoulders can be a valuable tool in spotting deception liars often raise one or both both shoulders ever so slightly when they're falsely proclaiming their innocence and that is something you should know you may not know exactly what it is but you know you have felt your intuition at work you made a choice or you made a decision based based on something other than just the facts your gut told you to do something or you intuitively knew something even though you didn't know how or why you knew it so the question is is that a good way to do things. Should you make gut decisions or is that just wishful thinking or are you just making a guest because you had had to make a guess and what is this thing called intuition exactly rick. Snyder is somebody who's really researched intuition. In fact there has been a lot of new research in the last several years about intuition rick is the author of a book called decisive intuition i rick so how do you look at intuition. How do you quantify it defined it. What is it so everyone i've spoken to has had an experience where sure they've had a sense about something and sometimes they wished they would have listened to it in so that really begs that question. What is that intuition voice that we have at critical moments in our life in so how i define that is it's an embodied knowing that comes from listening to what wants to happen next so that means. We actually have to slow down and get present so we can track. What is our inner experience. That's trying to give us the data and information that we need so that we can actually make our best decisions. One one of the criticisms i've heard about intuition from people who have studied decision making is that the problem with intuition is nobody really knows what it is you. You can describe it but you can't define it. It's not a thing you can't point to a part of the brain and say we'll see. There's your intuition working right there there. It's much more vague than that. It's a sense it's a feeling but it is vague and that if you have an important decision to make that's not a good way to go and that you're better off making your decision based on the facs. Yeah there's two parts to that. One of them is i think a lot of people will confuse intuition with emotional reactivity so if i feel very emotionally reactive about something and i'm calling that my intuition because i have a strong no about moving forward in a certain direction or i'm afraid or i'm scared or overly enthusiastic and i'm not looking at all the different important variables here sure that can actually sabotage my success in so we make a big distinction between emotional reactivity in intuition <hes> and it takes him self-awareness to get clear about. How do i know what's what <hes> and so. That's one part of it is how do you make that distinction for yourself and number two what the research shows is that the data and analytics along with your intuitive experience actually those together combined to make the best decisions in the superior or decision making so i i really do believe in the marriage of both that you can have the best data and analytics and not ignore your intuition from all your years of experience well. I know that i've had into intuitive ideas of you know go this way not that way and sometimes it's that's right but sometimes your intuition can lead you astray you. It is in fact incorrect. It's a bad idea. Here's what i found is. Is that when i'm really when i really get clear about my intuition doesn't lead me astray or in a bad direction but i will say this. Sometimes it might lead me to something uncomfortable comfortable and yet it's an area for growth like all i can think of a past relationship that i had one time in a very clear intuition that this was an important in relationship to to go forward with and it ended up being you know really challenging and difficult but it was my best life lessons and learning lessons at that time. Sometimes our intuition will take us out of our comfort zone because we're not going down the linear path of a rational mind that wants predictability that wants comfort that wants to know what's going to happen next but the reality is we live in a world. That's unpredictable in many times chaotic in so intuition actually keeps us more in the pulse of life where we're with the dynamics of what's happening right now. That might always be fluctuating so you said a moment ago that you have to differentiate between just reacting and intuition and you've got to be in touch with that well. How do you get in touch with. How do you know what the difference is. How do you get better at differentiating those two things because i've had probably both and always figure just my that's my intuition right so let's take a concrete example. Let's say you're given an opportunity to speak in front of a large audience in right away. You have this big strong. No i don't wanna do that and so is that intuition or is that fear and so let's break that down we have two components were used to distinguish the difference between the two one of them is if if there's a strong emotional charge your most likely not coming from intuition intuition usually happens when it's very calm and you're just going about your day in all of a sudden you get an insight or a strong <hes> download about a certain direction or a certain action step to take in your life or conversation. You need to have but if there's a lot of emotional charge about it chances are it's coming from past baggage. Maybe you did some speaking engagement in the past and it didn't go well or this is your first time getting out on the size of a stage in your understandably nervous in so you're going to have a lot of emotions at that stage so the first piece is looking at okay. Is there a huge emotional charge and if so how do i let myself get a little more calm and i stay with the question of if i want to do that <hes> speaking engagement or not and just from a more complex. What do i notice the second thing is. There's a lot of story in narrative when you have a big emotional reactivity so if i'm getting on stage and i have all these ideas he is about oh. This is terrible and there's a lot of story about it. Chances are you're coming from emotional reactivity from the past. Well sure i think that's happened. Everybody where something thing is presented to you and it brings back stories from your past that weren't particularly nice and then things didn't go well then so they're probably not going to go well in the future and and so you pass on it and you're saying that's not your intuition. That's fear talking but it's not your intuition now. Let me give you a subway a little more nuanced here. I had experiences where i've said yes to an opportunity like that and i still felt fear yet. I could feel intuitively. It felt right to put myself in that position so even though there was some fear still that was understandable and reasonable. It wasn't overly charged. It wasn't a lot of story about it is a natural normal. Whole feeling of nervousness and yet was deeper than that and more real was oh. I need to be up there. I need to be doing that. I need to be stepping into that opportunity and even though it's a a bit scary i can feel. It's needs to happen next. It would seem to make sense at least for me if i'm going to use my intuition to make a decision <hes> <hes> i'm probably going to do it for small things less. Oh for bigger decisions life changing decisions because again. I i don't even know what intuition is really and how you turn it on how you turn it off how you differentiated from other thoughts in your head so it seems like like small decisions may be less harm can come from it. You know that it actually is very wise in respect that a lot of people don't have a living having relationship with their intuition actively in so the three places we get stopped in living from our intuitive. Intelligence is number one. We don't know how to recognize. Our intuitive would've signals and cues number two. We don't trust what we feel so we might actually be feeling something. We just don't trust it or we tend to override it for what everyone else is deciding around us or what it says on the spreadsheet and not trusting our inner experience and then number three the third place we get stuck is we might know exactly what we need to do. Were just afraid afraid to take action. We're afraid to have that conversation and put it into motion so i do think what you're saying is great that what start small when you learn a new instrument you don't get up on stage right away and play your instrument you practice in your room and you practice your scales. I think the same is true with intuition practice with some of the small decisions in your life and you could even pair with other people around you and say hey. Here's the sense that i'm getting what do you what do you feel about this and you can actually practice that with trusted colleagues and and mentors in your life. What do you do when the facts say yes and your intuition says no yes. This is the million dollar question russian so i tend to really pay attention to my inner signals and cues like that. When i get a strong no or a yes about something i think you've got to pay attention attention to it and not just override that immediately because the data says this and so. I think it's important to still do your due diligence in go a little bit deeper with the data but the chances are might be oh. This is the right decision but it's the wrong timing. Maybe this is the right move to make in our company for example but we're just a little premature and we needed wait and get a little more data ourselves in so i think having a red light that way is important to at least put the pause button on reflect on it sleep on it and even talk to some key stakeholders around you as well. Could you respond specifically to the criticism because i'd i'd really like to hear what you have to say because i've heard people say that intuition is not real. It's not a real thing you can't compare your intuition to my intuition. There's no test for that. <hes> you can't really even tell me what intuition is and so using it to make big decisions is dangerous and so i'd really like to get your response to that. Y'all would see that's more of a traditional older view of intuition and that was probably lee pretty common as of at least ten years ago but there's been so much research with neuroscience even showing in functional m. r. I.'s were we get certain intuitions that lights up specific parts. It's of our brain that are even different than insight or inside is a little more mental. An intuition is actually using both hemispheres of the brain where it's using the emotional component opponent and the insight driven component as well in so <hes>. Here's an example where you can measure it. That's a very practical <hes>. Let's take sales so working with sales people and actually teaching them intuitive skills to actually read out the relational space in things like body language energetic emotions what people we are not talking about in a sales conversation you know how do you intuit the need of the person. In front of you is a very valuable gift for sales. I think every salesperson would agree and so imagine getting a train that in seeing metrics increase seeing people increase their conversion rates by three times what they were doing before intuitive of training so that's what's so great about sales as you can actually track it and measure it where it's a little more difficult is around intuitive decision making because i can't really measure what i didn't decide to do but there are definitely places where you can see the effects of building intuitive skills and real results that show up in the world but you you should be able to measure if if people used their intuition to make decisions and it's such a great way to make decisions is their decision making more more right than people who don't use it. Here's what here's what the research shows. Is that when you combine a critical analysis with intuitive decision making and letting you're letting your sub conscious do the work not just your linear thinking like we're talking about but actually dropping a level deeper into your sub conscious. That's where you process information five hundred thousand times faster than just your conscious mind alone in so the research will show that where they'll take take three groups for example and literally overwhelm them with data on purpose and the first group has to make a decision out of the two choices just right right away with their first impression. The second group gets three to five minutes to critically think using their analytical skills and the third group they actually distract. They're conscious re rational mind so that their sub-conscious in the background goes to work on the problem and they found with statistical significance. The third group always make the best decision when they're having time for subconscious to do the work so that's why when someone in your family might have said if you have a tough decisions sleep on it. There's actually a lot of wisdom there because your subconscious mind is completely active in your dream states and that's where you're connecting all the dots from the day so that you can have a more holistic picture of what you're trying to address in your life great a rick snyder is my guest. He is author of a book called decisive decisive intuition. It's called super saturday. Take an extra fifteen percent off. Graphic tees are just seven sixty four girls stretch dunham fourteen eighteen forty fives women's shoes sixteen ninety nine and the carey campaign plus eighty nine plus. Everyone gets kohl's cash plus. Free amazon returns now alkyl stores. 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You nervous so you get off the elevator and you say your intuition told you to do that. There was no time for a lot of critical thinking my gut said get off and i got off and that's what i think. A lotta people view as intuition yeah. I do think <hes> that's true like for example a lot of kids when when children feel weird around a stranger or somebody listen to your kids you know and i think children are much more open to their intuition before the rational mind in the <hes> neo the neo cortex really gets embedded later in life with all our programming that we take on so i think children have a natural access that way as you adults when you start to unlearn and you start start to breathe and get more present to your environment but i think you've got to pay attention to those environmental cues and here's the other side once again. What if you're coming from impulsively so that's where some people who say yeah. I'm a gut guy. That's what i do. I make i call. I make calls out of my good but a lot of times it's it's out of impulse in out of of stress or emotional reactivity so that's where you it really pays to slow down and take a few breaths and released check in with okay. Is this something that does feel intuitive live or am i just reacting to the moment right now but sometimes you don't have time to do that. There's no time to take a breath you. They get off the elevator now because the doors are closing. There's no time to say hang on everybody. I need to take some breaths and think about this and see if i should stay or go right in some situations in life you don't have that luxury you're right and so in that moment i err on my intuition. I've learned to trust my signals and cues and those moments when i'm in that elevator and i don't feel comfortable. I'll step out the elevator. What's the risk of that right so it would seem that people have different levels of intuitive ability and so the question is why is that wire why is someone's intuition better than someone else's intuition seemingly and and if you don't have a lot of intuitive ability how do you get it it. And how do you know you got it. Yes so the first question yes i. I do think that some people have more natural talent when it comes through their intuitive gifts than others and i also think that everyone can learn the skill like any skill. It is very much the same like if we take athletics. Some people are more naturally athletic than other people <hes> and yet if you practice layups or if you practice your shots and basketball every day you're gonna get get incrementally better if you practice every day same is true with intuition. This is what we're finding working with leaders and teams that actually getting to practice their intuitive skills is is something that is mostly off the radar of most organizations so far today and so this is such an invisible edge for people who are putting attention on slowing down down taking a breath tracking their inner signals and cues and learning how to engage with their intuitive intelligence that way and so yes i do see we've seen gene that people progress the more that they put attention on this as a skill to develop and and you do that by doing what and how do you you know it's working. Yes we have a six step process and i'll just run through it really quick here so the first step is receptivity is even having your mind mind being open to the possibility of okay. Maybe there isn't tuition. Let's at least be open to that possibility and maybe information come toward me. I don't have to go out there and seek everything in in the hunting direction but i can actually open up my mind and let things come towards me because that's one interesting thing about intuition. Is it comes towards you. You don't find your intuition. It actually finds you when you relax and so you have to get into a relaxed state which the mind is sometimes really as a furrowed brow in is really crunched in china narrow vision instead. You have to have an open receptive. Mind is the first step second. Step is to slow down so now that my mind is open and how do we actually slow down and get present to what my experience is. Internally step three is then now that i've eliminated the outer distractions. I have to pay attention to the inner distractions actions in separate the voice of my inner critic from the voice of my intuition once that starts to get declutter. Let's say in your more clear about intuitive signals and cues. The next step is then going deeper listening to my body and the idea is that the bodies wiser than the mind when you start to tune into it a <hes> subconscious really lives and then after that we we then ask a question so let's say i'm facing a tough hiring decision at work or maybe it's a decision question about my relationship and if it feels dead to me. Should i carry on or stay in it. That's why then ask a question for guidance and then lastly. It's about about putting that answer into action so when i do get an intuitive download a response. How do i put that into action in my life. Do you think though that often what happens is people say their intuition told them to do something when really it's just they want something so they use that as a justification for getting it they want to buy that expensive car and they say you know my intuition told me to do it when really they're just using it. As an excuse accused they're using it to talk themselves into making that decision because they really want yeah so if you notice you're talking yourself into something and there's a lot of back and fourth lawyering. That's probably coming from your critical mind. That's probably coming from your inner critic. You know trying to dissuade you or why you should or shouldn't do something or down all the doubt that comes in which is one of the biggest obstacles to intuition when i get intuitive downloads about something. It's very clear it's very clear. It's non dramatic. There's not a lotta story to it. There's not a lot of emotional charge. It's like oh yeah this person's right higher for our company and i still wanna do my due diligence and do my background check and all those things but i'm going to be paying attention to that sense of clarity and flow in ease in so that's really when i'm when i'm checking in with my intuition. That's what it feels like. It's not very loud necessarily dramatic. Sometimes it's a whisper but it's a very clear distinct feeling and one thing you can do is check back to remember a time in your life life. When you had a strong sense about something that you didn't listen to and so one question i ask is how did that information come to you and this is the first place to start start to detect your intuitive language. Did you get pitchers and words. Did you get a feeling somewhere. Did you get a visual. Did you get a sound. Did you hear some audio messaging pitching. Did you get something in your dream state so this is a great way to start tracking in hindsight how you're into language might speak to you so i want to get a better better handle on this idea of intuitive downloads that you've mentioned a couple times and this idea that you said that intuition sometimes shows itself off by you know something and you intuitively know. It and you don't know how you know it. You just know it and i. I don't think i really understand stand that exactly so. Can you give me an example of what that looks like. Okay i'll give you an example like so. I had a strong intuitive download to go to france to write my book and that seemed really out of the unknown. I don't even speak french. I have been a france but i never they had a poll necessarily to that to that land or culture to live there but i had a strong feeling that that's where i needed to read my book in b._c. And i saw this image image of being somewhere by the sea by the mediterranean and so it was one of those things where i notice that and that feeling did not go away in fact. It seemed to be one of those synchronous cities. These were every time i heard about france or read about it something electric in me a will <hes> awakened said the right word something a woken me electrically and it was just as confirmation every time like well and it wasn't italy. It wasn't mexico. It was very clear go to france to write this book and that's exactly what i did and it was the most amazing apartment that i found that had that had that seaview. It was very inspiring to write my book and just to get out of everything that i knew in the american culture at the time was very helpful to have a creative mindset and to really start fresh in having new perspective so this literally came from nowhere. I couldn't pick to one logical google data point that would say go to france. I even said out loud but i don't even speak french but i knew from past experience that when i don't listen to these critical signals that are coming from a deep place within. I regret it later. There's consequences well. This is really helpful because everyone has felt what they think is their intuition intuition that work and wonder what it is. Is this a good way to go and this really helps understand better. Rick snyder has been my guest. The name of his book is decisive intuition and you'll find a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks rick appreciate you being here great. Thank you appreciate it to something. Oh you should know is sponsored by a._d._t. When you need real protection for your home and family you want the experts at a._d._t. When you hear or those three letters a._d._t. You think rock-solid home security and with a._d._t. You get all the latest innovation in smart home. Security combined lined with twenty four seven monitoring from the most trusted name in home security in fact a._d._t.'s the number one smart home security provider. They have a team of professionals that will design and install a secure smart home just for you with a._d._t. You get everything from video. Doorbells rebels indoor and outdoor cameras smart locks and lights all controlled from the a._d._t. App or the sound of your voice and everything is custom designed signed to fit your home and lifestyle. They even have safety on the go in the car or when the kids are at school with the go app with an s._o._s. so west button when it comes to real protection you need a._d._t. When you think about the the things that have changed and steered all of human history you think of people and politics disease natural disasters what else whether these are the things that have shaped our history and that history has played out on the stage called earth. We generally think of our planet as a place where things happen but what's so interesting is that the earth is actually an important character in the story of our history. The world we live on has shaped a lot of what who and where we are today to explain how and why it's important to understand is louis. Louis dardanelle lewis professor of science communication at the university of westminster in the u._k. And he's author of a book called origins how the earth's history shaped human history. Hey louis thank you so much so let's dive right into an example of what you're talking talking about because i think when people hear well the earth itself has had an impact on our history. It's hard to understand what exactly you mean so let's start with an example if he could in fact like for example is is a political and turns out on the southern states of the united states of america. It's it's a mostly republican. Voting area apart from very distinctive didn't blue of democrats voting counties unfair unfound arc corresponds with rocks beneath people's feet which a._t. Million years old and it's a storm itching when you think about a p people voting voting for hilary clinton lost election robin donald trump if they happen to have rocks beneath the feet which eighty million years old somehow the earth influencing the way that people look what has happened in this particular example is there is a million of rocks on the eighteen years old from the cretaceous of history history which when they've weathered gonna give an a particularly fertile rich kind of soil which was realized eighteen hundred very good at growing colton unfortunate period of of american history hosting cultural plantations meant using slave labor and even hundreds of years later the civil war and the freedom of slavery <hes> the the great systems t of african americans today still live along the cretaceous talk and the southern states these people that unfortunately still suffer from socioeconomic problems of poor education of low wages people that therefore therefore tend to vote for democrat ideals rather than republican like deal so there's that chain of kohl's effect through hundreds of years of human in history and the millions of years pundits history yeah great that's a perfect example of how of how the earth just being the earth influences influences politics and voting and our history so gimme gimme another one white and most of us for breakfast how they slice of toast all <music> a bowl of cereal and indeed we eat cereal plum as the state pulled off all of our meals it's wheat and rice and maize which in fact fed all the people around the world also relations throughout human history and distortion five behind this is that all those cereal crops are species of gross human zeke ross just the same way that the cows sheep goats we leave out to pasture do but we we don't have full stomachs like a cow two neighbors to break down and eat that gross to supply of brings the problem rather than our stomachs. We've invented things like the millstone on the water wheel and cooking that grain interbred taoist suggest those nutrients and the reason that we adopted the ross's to feed ourselves thousands of years ago was gross incan logical sense is very fast growing colonize an area off force it disappeared off some like a forest fire and puts all his energy into the grain can eat doesn't waste building would or bach so we all ancestors hits upon the particular plans to to domesticate kate that would give us the most efficient use of things we could eat when inventing acapulco another way that the earth has played played such an important role in the history of human beings is how we use the earth's resources to build and how we have done that over centuries and centuries because the earth provides what it provides that's all it provides humans have figured out ways to adapt what the earth's it's resources are two buildings and cities so talk about that like in the history of civilization has being digging underground to the rocks go feet and then boiling them up in walls to create our you know temples and agassi generals and all and all you know defensive walls and all i'll houses but not all rocks what creates meekly some some better than others and so just the natural resources we have available to you can start dictating civilizations can build with so mesopotamia for example the land between the rivers was the crucible of civilization civilization. It was the the emergence the first big cities emergence of civilization between tigris-euphrates rivers but have no natural rock to build with that the civilization tation was literally built of mud beneath their feet. They were going that the crops in and if you look at the united kingdom where you can probably tell from my accent o._e._m. From through a very diverse spread of different coins rox all different chapters of our history across the british officials and so it was a geologist you could be teleported anywhere in britain. Take your blindfold off and just by looking at the buildings around. You have a pretty good idea exactly where you are because you recognize. Particular kind of stone is a particular age and if a particular region of the country so i can certainly understand how weather and climate have affected history because it determines in part where people live and where people don't live but did you talk about how wind has been particular player in our history so explain how one of the most critical chapters in more than history the street with the age of exploration when you're first started exploring out around the rest of the world and we're trying to build trade routes to india yeah undiscovered the americas and using ships started to knit together the continents of the planets and the way that had never happened before fool and history and all of this king down to directions the wind blowing. How can i get from one place to another easily. As possible is is dictated by the fundamental circulation currents in the atmosphere the circulating tate's where the wind blows and never where you you can build your trade routes and that's why you have to build your ports on your forces and you'll colonies and even looking at a modern map today you can still see the telltale person of web things aw was dictated by the like the winds in the early fifteen hundreds. Let's <hes> let's give you one particular example of that. The reason that california so critical in recent history <hes> and cities cities like los angeles and san diego and san francisco the reason they were founded in the very first place since he is the only place you can get to crossing crossing the pacific ocean from china falling the winds. They dictated why people wanted with us ships and never what wet regions developed waste. It's the cheese and the civilization it was burning and since we're on the subject of windonw therefore climate one of the things that's always interested me is why i people settle where they settle. Why people live where they live because it there are some places because of floods or because of whatever reason seem yeah like an odd place to choose to live <hes> but nevertheless people do not absolutely people settled down where they're able to support themselves with that from farming or perhaps being you know matt's following their herds of cattle across the steps and and in fact if we look at where the earliest civilizations emerged on on on a lot of them cluster take too long detect twenty plate boundaries on these suckers skin of our planet listening self is is curious because plate boundaries of where there's lots of earthquakes volcanoes to wanna people choose to settle in these unstable dangerous locations nations and speaks pool of mashed potatoes which you mentioned the very cradle of civilization that plate boundary simply creativity ideal conditions early agriculture it created the conditions for gently flowing rivers that a lot of very fertile talk sediment that made farming three easy and that's because he was lying alongside range of mountains on the weights that mountain range disastrous it was fucking down across the planet to create this four land basing civilization itself emerged and what was effectively a tectonic talk trough. I still wonder why there are some places that are truly extreme in their climate there either very hot or they're very cold or they're very rainy and muddy or whatever it is and yet people still choose to live there and wonder we'll. We'll why live there when there are seemingly nicer places to live in humanity has now spread all the way around the world we komis and live van everything from deserts to tropical zones up mountains <hes> in an arctic regions and in a sensible wilson naval do we all the most widely distributed animal species on the planet. We're incredibly adaptable and diverse and where we can support tossed selves and settled down. I think that's because intelligence we can use all tools and technology to create artificial environments for ourselves. You know we wear clothes because we don't have the civic can live in both warm places and cold places. We've invented fire. Helps us live in much colder places. We've invented farming and agriculture that can feed us <hes> reliably and what probably happened is our intelligence agent was given to us by the unstable climactic conditions in the rift valley of east africa where we evolved. We evolved to outsourcing unkown violence to be able to survive a fluctuating environment. I mean my great out of the the dry heat of east africa took intelligence with us which enabled us to then call an is all the different ecosystems around the world from the desert mountains to the regions we game kind of carrying bought product of us in our bodies and brains which enabled us the species to become become so so effective so when you research this in this mindset of how the earth impacts us and shapes our history all what's the one thing that that in all the research you did you found just really fascinating really particularly interesting that people might not know this one fact that immediately jumped out at me and i i just sat back when will <hes> and if i was like how many metals do you think you've you've got on your person right now to me. Maybe but still if you go a set of keys maybe some aluminium. He's drinks can with you. Maybe some copper if you have some coins like of different claims of metals. How many you have on you in your pockets your body so i think it was a pretty good. Guess that's exactly what thoughts but if you've got a phone in your pocket smartphone you actually have over thirty three zero difference difference metals on your person right now and the vast majority of them. You wouldn't even recognize the name all the things like trimmings propium their that their exotic exotic rare metals so i've got a particular nation electronic properties that make them very good for making electric circuits out often take making things like the touch screen of a mobile phone or an ipad and it's the earth those metals as well don't just i n on steel deal and lead and copper view through history with now using dozens and dozens and dozens of these exotic technological metals tolls and many of these are what of what is known as rare <hes> elements rare earth metals and it just turns out that china is supplying over eighty percent of rare earth metals everyone else around the world. I'm giving them an incredibly a strong position when it comes to trade negotiations and trade disputes perhaps with <hes> with the u._s. And china at the moment is being able to provide. There's breath aliments. The most people wouldn't even recognize the names of through becomes so critical how modern world and again it's the geology komo within china. It's really fun and interesting to hear the individual stories of how the earth has played a role in our history as you've outlined line but but in in a big picture way what's the what's the big so what here why should we care. What's the what's the overall impact of all of this so. I think that the reason i wrote this book. The reason i'm searching roots origins is because i think when we when we think about history history we mostly focus as you said on great people on defining moment when defining battles we focus on culture and sociology ritchie and psychology and of course all those things are important but knowing beneath all those other layers of explanation all the planet tree layers this thing's about where the resources are available about the way that the atmosphere so clayton neville weather winds blew. It's about where announcing rangers all but <hes> constrain when people move and can settle down so i'm not saying that history for history not important. It's still culture and society and economics what i'm saying. Is that beneath all of that the bedrock of history if you if you allow awful putting the bedroom because history is the the planet itself and i think that's being overlooked <hes> in recent years of history and i'm trying to redress that bounds to explore the planet as a key role in the human story alongside humans themselves well. It's not the normal way we think about history but when you start to think that way yeah it it really is interesting. Lewis dark knell has been my guest. Lewis is a professor of science communication at the university of westminster in the u._k. And his book is called origins how earth's history shaped human history and you'll find a link to his book in the show notes. Thank you louis. Thanks for being here. Thank you very much mike cheese while fad diets come and go. There are some no nonsense scientifically a proven. Maybe not so sexy ways that still take the weight off and keep it off first of all trade in the treadmill for weights people lose more weight especially belly fat when they lift weights compared to spending the same amount of time doing cardio researchers say hey that unlike cardio which burns the vast majority if not all of its calories during the workout strength training with weights causes you to burn calories. He's even after you're done and it hikes up your metabolic rate. Thanks to an increase in lean muscle mass. Another idea is to dark in your bedroom any light coming in from outside or from devices in the room can disrupt your sleep and throw off your body's rhythms in the study of more than one hundred thousand dozen women participants who slept in the darkest rooms or twenty one percent less likely to be obese than those who slept in the lightest rooms. Get social having an accountability buddy will help you stay consistent with exercise and good nutrition and that will help you lose weight and also oh use smaller plates research has proven time and time again that plate size has a greater impact on the amount of food you eat than most people realize the smaller the plate the less food you eat and that is something you should know. If you like this podcast. I invite you to share it with someone. I'm on you know. I'm mike carruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.

rick snyder china france Louis dardanelle lewis california Mike carruthers university of westminster los angeles joe navarro intel kohl americas san diego san francisco professor basketball kohl google united kingdom
Can Music Make You Sick? - Dr George Musgrave

The Know Show

52:54 min | Last month

Can Music Make You Sick? - Dr George Musgrave

"Before we thought the show. I'd like to take a minute to ask you guys to help us. Keep the show alive by subscribing our youtube channels and on spotify nineteen's please do take time to follow instagram at the no-show foot. Those of you can help a little bit more. Please contribute or patriot account which can be found on our youtube videos and website to access to all these links please visit. Www dot the no show dot net. If you aren't already aware the no-show put cost an initiative designed to make academic research accessible to everyone. Why is it that we spend billions of taxpayer money each year to fund some of the most amazing research but never really get to know. What's in it by opening up the latest research a much wider audience. Not only do we expand our knowledge and understanding of the world but we also inspire young people who otherwise wouldn't know anything about this book is time we the people get involved with academic research even if it's just as listeners so we can truly make education a democracy so george welcome to the national really pleased to have a festive. How have you been from this crazy period Yes like everyone just trying to figure out figure out the best way of working through it. I mean thankfully. I just moved house before a house that had a second bedroom in god wasn't a one bedroom flat with known like couple of months. Basically before this so now just been like thank. You said. it's made it better. But now i'm not. I've got desks up in my in my dreams. So that can that can be fish now. I'm your your your particular interest in music of the stems from a musician Yeah yeah. I've been running to on careers concurrently. Basically so i've been been like a musician for release to let my first processing two thousand eleven so fat while And i was releasing musical. The time i was unique. Undergrad free myemma and stuff as well and Signed the kamajors publishing deal with sony. Atv i'm what's with like mike. Skinner streets done festivals at reading leeds festival. Radio won't speak weekends. Things like that and was shooting that music career alongside like i said not coming academic and stuff as well as what is meant that i could take the academic interests that i had before hundred weren't really music. Driven tool on my undergrad degrees. Inflict science amazing. Ppa but i could take those concepts. I was interested in economic concepts of value in other stuff. I was into along with the fact that i had an interest in psychology. Behavioral economics is while stuff like that and they ended up just kind of coming together in applied as interest but to the perspective of music. Because i had a unique inside a particular insight in world operates off in agreement together. It's been really nice. And now also i mean generally as a practitioner of music Being able to study the does that does that give does that. I mean obviously us your insights. But does he also had come to this fisher biopsies. It's a difficult one insofar enough of of Questions before i particularly When i was doing my pitch a lot of stuff i was writing about was kind of ultrasonographic ethnic graphics. I'll be writing about my own experiences. I his paper A few years got about how practitioners can Do ultrasonography research bring their own practicing. So the research that writing about without it just being like well. I know the answer to his wife. Think sutton is always that into play right between when you being the I guess for lack of a better win evening. The academic and winnie the musician brian. When do you need to create some kind of analytical on distinction between the two. It will not. It's a difficult one. I mean it's a funny one in a way because this idea of having. Bipartisan being subjective something. I always talk about a lot with my me with my post postgraduate students. Who are writing dissertation. I ne- not because we've been doing dissertation season right now and they were talking about know. How can we remain objective. How do we take us out of that. I always think like objectivity is like it's not an either all like a conceptual continuing like whilst when you were writing about yourself objective in the scientific sense of the meaning of will note does it provide an additional lens to aid in the construction of an objective. Look at what the field will be. Look yes. I think it's acknowledging that very few research subjects approach anything clean like devoid of any boss. Well and i think once you realize that it's like that's not to detract from the scientific merit of what you do conceptualizing. What is this. Isn't what like this in. Social sciences isn't measuring apples. Full trot regrets exists doesn't qualify that bat dignity the kind of quality of what often that may and other people do. It's it's like revealing people. Subjective interpretation of the world is necessarily messy and and so we can do this contribute to the ways in which we understand that. Were never going to give you beyond that. Right gets you annals. Absolutely nothing there is historic. There's been a divide between theory and practice in many many fills in and with respect to academia so the theory. Say this book practices this. I mean you mentioned economics interests in economics economics for a long time. It was built on these theories and models that aw so far removed from the world because after be simplified and now you have a whole you brought neighbor except talks about these. You know these by season and that sort of stuff. So i'm i'm really fascinated by is that you would do in a phd. Well so being assigned musician how how how was that balancing act. I'm to be honest. I know which way i lent when i was doing it. And he said towards the music basically but because in a way. While i was doing immigrant she was writing about the experience of being a musician. Reps was. I don't know whether this is Me preps justifying it to myself more than anything else but it was. I could justify insofar as saying well you know. I'm kind of doing the research by being a musician. So won't hand kind of what she's the other spies but I definitely well. I know that. I spent much more time focusing on being a musician. Because that's what i was what. I was pushing at that time. An average height of my issuing musical career. I was a case he was in a recent sequel. The center for competition policy which is like an economics research institute which was based at uva norwich. And it's almost like i'm going to be a rapper. The hunt you can't be represented. It could be a rapper live north. But you you you probably going to be mass rapid ourselves at ryan just gonna mesa london so in london actually the whole time and then i come back to you for 'em seminars and stuff that had to do And like oh juggle my time in a fairly like my wife was a primary school teacher at the time so often i would like to stay up all night. Tween like eleven pm when she went to bed and like six o'clock in the morning and go to work. She's talking that. I would get to bed and wake up until ever was like a weird like not few years essentially really. I was just shooting music. I mean i actually was interviewing people as well from casey's while not the kind of six monthly intervals. I've kind of three areas. Actually the reason that. I go full year to right up the phd's signed to sony in my third year. So i have enough money to not nick's job but you know i basically wrote the whole at ninety thousand woods in the final five months. I mean really the whole thing in about five minutes maybe less maybe full mounts mazed on notes collected over the time interview material and all of the day try was collecting kind of did as i was going along But i think to a certain extent my whole academic career before that point being a student. was kind of defined by my ability to juggle doing and being a musician as well so that i only it was probably more intense trying to be a musician while sitting finals at cambridge than it is to do it. While you're writing a state you can always another day when you're adjusting. There's always an of a really interesting because obviously you've recently authored a book. Kim and i won the does does that. Experience of having a balanced is having a family life that i suppose because of the music and trying to balance up your phd. Guess affected 'em did that. Does a book talk about your mental. Giannis oh i sold to try to remove myself a my journey from the book. The book is based on a survey that we did of two thousand two hundred and eleven musicians. Music responded to the survey and they make it full up into these with twenty eight musicians major record executive one of the majors and manages an a plus mental health professionals working in the field and stuff as well and we really wanted to let hey from them in the woods about how they were experiencing that work and we can talk about it and whatever but in terms of my positioning in that research. I remember during the interviews inside being like. Oh yes yes. I know exactly like what you'll tend to me telling me about anxiety and depression in what is to be a musician and all this stuff and i remember while they were telling me so often i'll be thinking. Yeah right right right right. I feel exactly the signs. And sometimes i would say that's been because it aids in like establishing rapport into because they know that you'll speaking the same language as them But the simple answer. The question is notebook doesn't doesn't interrogate my own experiences. It puts me as a academic writing about the lives of all those sort so the book is called music. Make you sick. I'm guessing the self explanatory title. Civic country in looking at some of the the different aspects of music does it focus does focus on a particular age group or is it more as an industry looking at the industry as a whole so what. This book is primarily looking at is the experiences of musicians as opposed to the inches hall and in particular musicians with what we have put in the subtitle The book is called community measuring the price of musical ambition. Lose about people trying to establish careers as musicians with established as musicians so in that sense. This woman distinction is important to be made in that. It's not so much the the making of music which is what we're in targets in the processes of music making it's the it's the nature of seeking to or establishing old maintaining a music career. So that's the first thing so that's a particular. This classic like music to music ethnography sickly from the from the eighties and early nineties. Look music making an as people has. And about like music making milton keynes and it's people who inquires rian bells. That kind of music making is very different to the person who's releasing these spotify doing gigs or doing excellent to try and build korea. So that's the first thing the other thing is that then it doesn't focus on a particular age group although by nature of the fact that it's people seeking to build a career and a. It's a young person's guy music. Whatever necessarily has some kind of participants selection. But what we did is we surveyed the musicians first and then we went and did some interviews so it takes musicians from all the uk primarily based in london. Just because that's where musicians knowledge ability nicholas glasgow birmingham manchester bell fos cardiff newcastle edinburgh from a range of genres. So we have like a producers who are producing lot drama base with upset we got like an rappers people making kind of jazz and soul music some people from classical music Kind of songwriters All kinds of all kinds of different genres from a variety of different ages kind of split male and female Yet to try and give a kind of other view of the kinds of people that have musical ambition in the uk today. What their experiences of trying to build a terrific uk today and how. How was sort researched. So we actually launched our survey in at may two thousand and sixteen Fool then the person Macaw macaw will do our rights over to study gross. And she's a university of westminster as well She had had this idea for quite a few years. And i remember when i joined the department which was off after i finished my i remember his saying i least idea about doing this project on mental health and stuff and people don't think it's a real thing people people just say. Well everyone music matt. Why's that that's not a thing. That's not appropriate research topic and stuff like that and she was like working out how to get it off the ground. So it'd been rumbling along since two thousand fifteen but we learned servant in Twenty sixteen and then we did the interviews in later that year. So i think we did. The survey in may june. And then we do the interviews and about december and then wrote in twenty seventeen and we have these kind of publications. We put out. Throughout the survey data. In two thousand sixteen we plow agricole. We writes up in association with the charity he funded. It could help musicians. Uk in two thousand seventeen. And we've been writing the book. Basically ever since second report came out. Because i remember when we rates that the charity could said having done these interviews. What we'd like his what it wasn't like a three thousand world report said we tried to write it and we got up to about fifteen thousand and we will like maybe. We can trim down to like eight or nine. Maybe no way we can fit. This will into three thousand so we put out its version of the pike eight thousand miles long from the beginning. We were saying no what she you know in academia publishing journal school but the publishing agenda. It's still an parameters rhymes like thirteen thousand so we tried senate into thousand thousand one too much to say like it couldn't be done ready so he wants to. Major they will. This is got to be book is just too much to be said on this. Been writing the book for two years so this has been quite a bit of a journey. It's been this has been the last four years of my life. Basically dennis less amazing. Because i see that this is one of those things you mentioned that you touched on it briefly where people of assume as part and parcel of the industry where mental people that will crazy all. They do like trump's coming in industry people who have problems and her express themselves from using. So that's normal but clearly is not and i want you to sort of give us a bit deeper explanation as a practitioner. Someone who listened like thousands of others the the journey of the argument. Which is the argument that we try to unfold the cool flat first chapter in the book. Because it's it's a a complex. Argument is just one that needs engaging with properly is that we we started from this really really simple position which is also a really basic question. Which is what is was lying like from musicians by was to be a musician today. And that's how it was all starting point and starting from the idea that the music industry music industries that people really work is a site of hedonism and enjoyment and creativity excess and glamour and it's driven by what we will. Techno positive is unlock belief. That technology is brilliant. And like never you know. You always hear these. You big claims like this is the age of the autism autism. Powder's never been a better time to be a musician all this stuff which we all hear. I hear music industry panels on invites. You will time you have that. But at the same time industries full of people. That are struggling. And we hear about this all the time. So we all saw the pooling Story of what happened to chee. We also what happened in two thousand eleven with any winehouse. We all saw scott hutchison. We also these stories again and again and again chester bennington. All of that. We kept seeing this. And i remember that we read an interview in twenty fifteen with bangor. The up she's in the garden and he was talking about how developed schizophrenia. And the the nature of his work in some way contributed to that he didn't say it was the cause of block said he felt that it contributed to the onset of that. And that idea is something that's being I guess like smoldering in the ashes of the music industry largely like post. Amy winehouse when along people were asking questions about what did you take care of the record label towards her like what could have been done in this situation some kind of acknowledgement that the infrastructure world around to need it. Whether it's not about blame just needed interrogating in some respect. And so what we were wanting to do was to say. Look at what's going on. Look how look. How if there was any other industry. This many people killing themselves with the time people would be saying voice going on here and in music. Those discussions are a little bit different so the reason that there is often this idea about this relationship between infiltrated that some. Aw and magnus but these two things are always entangled. Entangled divide days of morality religion and sexuality pleasure power. All these things are tied up together. And you have this idea that autistic personality right that music making that people who make music somehow psychologically different attracts Mall psychologically either emotionally achieved or unstable perhaps depending on new you a perspective and what we wanted to do was to interrogate that idea a little bit more about this idea. That musicians are like overly sensitive or rational crazy. And you see these time right. We referenced wanting the bookings at five types of crazy autism in your life At an all of that's tied up with ideas around. Let the tortured autism twenty seven club. musicians famous musicians who've died in twenty seven years old very few of these ideas Scientifically proven but certainly like devoid of Scientific interrogation so what we wanted to do was to come in and say let's take a little bit more seriously The working conditions of these musicians and interrogate the world a working in because the idea actually that music can have a negative impact on people as well as positive but everyone accepts that music listening to music as opposed to some people like we all know these stories right. You have the mozart effect so raw. I did like about saw. Iq increases by x. Number points and we have music therapy to help people through troll All of this stuff that we all accept that but on the flip side there is this discussion. This idea that certain kinds of musical music making actually have Less positive effects so for example. The loan historical ideas about the fight. Fat playing the piano was setsu kind of like under excite women played it. It shouldn't be allowed to play it and like historically it could It could lead to like an homosexuality in young men for like you know 'cause over exciting the nerves so there is this kind of these old ideas and these old ideas have contemporary resonance in certain things that we see so there are two really interesting examples. I think that during the cider upset the first one is you've seen a lot of these a using a few of these criminal behaviors issue to drill autists. Recently you have discreetly from number grave. He were basically issued a court order to say you can't produce music because whatever is inciting violence. Whatever that to me a thread linking onto the other right the music could be so powerful and so dangerous that it could lead people to kill each other that it needed to be stopped similarly when fabric had its license the not cup fabric had its license taken away. From a few years ago there was a a licensing committee. Hearing it isn't bar council on one of the things they discussed was should the bpm of the music played fabric the cat he stops okay on the on the understanding that if slow music is being played maybe there would be fewer drugs taken for less death in so that idea that music can be powerful and could potentially have adverse effects on people is not is not unheard of until what started to happen was it. Will these studies like now. It's like the survey. Sue nami at the moment in music web is survey for everything right and the lots of these surveys around the time of also asking people talk about their working conditions. What people are saying like overdone in these conditions about working conditions was very few people like explicitly saying like being a musician. Made me depressed saying in those times right but what they say. The working conditions this specific working conditions of me of making music for reasons can undermine my mental health and certainty stabilizing at worse at best destablizing worst damaging as someone needs to come in critically. Interrogate is to flip around the idea. That music attracts people who never met who emad anyway to say actually. Let's look at the work that they do. And whether or not the nature of that. What shines a light on what. It's like to be a musician about where we came in. It may one of a long story. But that's the story but that's a that's a really really. That's a really coherent of way of Breaking down the the journey of research but you you talk about idea of like flipping modern talking to an assessment so from working conditions. I believe it's a couple of times what these working conditions that on is leading people to fill that music is averaging though right so what we do in the book is essentially break down these working conditions into three main three main features three main characteristics of contemporary musical work and the idea that sits behind this is that if we can understand the nature of contemporary musical work which is as we will know like what musical work is defined by that precarious working conditions precarious economic conditions financially and otherwise by the drive to be entrepreneurial to make your own brand developed yourself tamaki. Those ideas we like. I'm saying we non musicians as well people see that in. That's becoming an imperative in the workforce generally to behave as visions to lose his argument that music canary the coal mine. Insofar as if we can understand the way that musicians work mind that these are supposed to be the people that love that what did not carry us. Labor is not unique to being a musician. What's interesting is that musicians love. That work is delivery rider. Slavery is a precarious but no one expects them to define their identity as like being a delivery. Rogers finds my life. No known expects but musicians day so we need to understand that because it will tell us something about us is not just like oh like music. 'cause otherwise people that will he cares about musicians. These people should stop whingeing whereas actually it's like if we can understand them understand more about ourselves so anyway the features of this musical threefold and we we use the prism of status like a relationship states. It's like you see on facebook but also to kind of train you the idea of states in this work key we break we break it down into these three statuses. We call it the status of work. That's about how economic validation is achieved for this work. We call it status of valley which is about how cultural validation is attained this work and we call it. The status of relationships which is about how social validation is tank for this was your the economic cultural the social value in relationships. I'm what we say. Is that the interplay between these. Three values is what creates such a destabilizing working environment. Site could run through the three. If you dominican we've kinda schule to cut here why. The status of walk with the status of work is about is about what the changes to the Economic value of music. Let's say looking at music. Making on the work of being a musician through the prism of traditional employment parameters the idea being wook an joel what looking at it in that way is like what we essentially find. Is that the first finding sits in the background which is not revelator in any capacity. Like everybody knows is that music making his financially precarious. Okay fine and in many respects let what happened with covid. Nineteen is just the zen like the ultimate emblem of the fact that music making his financially precarious. But what we went on to say. Was that this lack of Economic recompense for the work. That musicians are doing leads to this kind of existential questioning about intrinsic value of the work that they would find musicians that would say things like some of the musicians respect to who were quite illustrious spending on defined lustrous Away on the bbc blah blah. This woman that respect you'd like works and boots or whatever and she's like when people ask me. What's my job. I have to say the other stuff that idea. Because if i can really cool music making my job because it doesn't really mean that much money so didn't affect your many cool it that people would say that people don't think of what they do is work because the idea of whether or not this is really work is kind of up for debate because it's not paid labor. To what extent is it work and this chimes with old debates taking feminist critiques of like wages for housework can things will tease look like. How do we on son what what as but in that environment. Where whether or not doing his work is up for. Debate will work like bat is necessarily exploitative insofar as its concealed and a pleasure like something that you'll you'll to do like in the same way and we use the prism of the expansion of service economies better understand musicians in smile economy where everyone has to be positive. All the time is driven by this whole tippety that runs through the music media which you see all the time like the well. The i'm embedded is basically just full of constant bullshit of people being look theses. Great luck sign up but you monetize your content like brilliant. Well no like grow note like but he's driven by this idea that everything is brilliant and so not only that like the work that you're doing is like people feel that it's a blessing to be doing. Because i think something they love and they really do love doing it. And and so you have this idea of exploitation that rumbles around in the background that walk similarly if you call me when it's work at the same time you contact whether you were professional. How do you know whether you're national musician or not. How does one measure professionalism. You know there are some people who are have careers in music whether any money to have a house have a family that gun and other people in the music industry might not see them as illustrious a big deal like kids on the bus like going to school that listening to music playing out the speak on the find gun. Any of these guys are an aggressive stuff have a career whereas equally someone else. Who is performing at glastonbury Ten thousand people who works in boots and home with mom which one of them is the professional in which one is not is is such a kind of blood long so what that leads us to the chapters then to say well in this environment. What actually is success were musician. How do you know doing this work that you'll successful because it's not the pay i can assure you that is not the pay. So how do we know what success is in an environment where difficult to convert the kind of cultural and ritual value the work that you do into economic valley. You see these musicians all the time we spoke to them in in our research it will performing at las vegas in front of ten thousand people flew home. They live in mom's loft do they. Is it fair for them to see themselves success when if they do is that right. And if they don't should that be interrogated as well. How do they really know. They didn't really know whether it is and alongside this they what what you find. Is you find they. Very very powerful internal locus of responsibility for that success of of being a musician right. It's very very much driven by this belief. Which is rooted in this kind of economic making music industries. That music is a meritocracy. We saw chapter with this quite from uk music music as a matter. Talk bullshit like but is driven by this idea that it is an musicians really internalize rooted in this idea now that they are entrepreneurs right like being like you have control of your career if you say that what that means is if you fail. It's your when in fact. We know that there are structural issues that take place within why creative industries in the museum. She's more generally the that may simply not true and so in the end winds up happening is musicians have a very uneasy relationship between the work that they do and the role. It might come to play in the future and we talk a lot about. Music is a form of social mobility or not and whether or not needs it comes to play a role in future so that i finding basically is asking rideau also you interested in it to say what does it feel like to do musical. What what does it feel to be back to work hard at something which you will other people might know actually consider work which produces outcomes which hodson accent off which produces outcome which contradicts each other. Which gives you such amazing things but takes away in an instant. Which relies on self belief in positivity in an environment which can be so negative in an apartment that you think will no wonder that museums are anxious. How could you. You'd have to be wild to not be so. That's the first finding about that. Those findings about the nature of musical work. Basically that's the first feature the second feet choctaw about second vahtong Second features about in that environment where the economic conceptualization of labor relations and employment is so blood. You musicians will seek validation elsewhere so one of the places though this is online and another place it'll be in the music industry itself so we talk about how seeking to acquire cultural value for this work is emotionally destabilizing so online. For example one of the features we talk about the relationship between feedback invulnerability. This idea that you need to be vulnerable in order to be authentic you to shed runner ability but you also need to shine environment while i own you'll find at any seconds on on site this shit at blah whatever. Some one of the people we spoke to use the line that said like music you stood saw naked in the street off you comment. You have that related to that. You then have decided which we talk about in this relationship between competition and relevancy which means the online the ferocious level of music Competitiveness i e the number of people seeking to create a career in music means the it's not just enough to make music to be musician. You have to stay a musician and to stay a musician you have to stay red. Livin staying relevant means. You made a song. Eight weeks guy by wednesday. Excellent lens next on wednesday next excellent. Let's go you're not. you're no longer a maker of music right. You are a producer of content content that that must be fed. Bang bang bang lie in order to stay relevant in people's minds because the environment is so competitive in a way you look at a cheese touring schedule to us. That is one of the more extreme of that relationship between abundance and and staying relevant looks like right. You don't need to get somebody else will you didn't appear on the radio someone else will. Let's go bang bang bang bang so the relationship that music makes social. Media is a complicated one in that way. So then we say no. They tried to seek validation online in the music shoes. Well and we say that that is defined by another form of precariousness not just financial precariousness. But what we call a precarity of experience and that means the musicians we spoke to take collected that experience of dealing with what they call. The music industry is driven by uncertainty instability. And this idea that you could go for the record over the change them on whatever this idea that go to meetings people might not. It might not That you make a song. Maybe it'll get release. Maybe it wasn't even if you do release on you know in these the right the right marketing person the right people at the label to here at the right time the right mix the right radio plugger To be invoked the radio one one xtra plainest meeting me at we all along the chain and ps time. It comes out. Let's hope that drake and agenda of a single television played anyways get is an uncertain environment by the very nature of it then gets dressed up in his idea of let luck randomness musicians will say things like. Oh yeah you know. It's all about luck and randomness and timing that rhetoric actually obscure rules enormously kind of endemic structural features of equality that dr musical careers. Actually an ends up being dressed up in this language of luck roundedness and kind of celebrate tree individualized term analogy of. Well you're in control like what's what's the problem you could. You could recall like i did. For example that you can recall only songs on garrett fant for free so i was placed it on. The radio won't play this meeting for example with a song article. Doing god's plan on a usb microphone from august five pounds now on one hand. Great like you can compete with whoever with nine money on the flip side so can everybody else. You need to have a more critical reading of of what constitutes something being posted or not. So that's the second finding and the third finding is essentially about the way that music curriculum states of relationships the way that a musical career interferes with the The personal relationships that musicians with other people so that what ends up happening is that hosted relationships are economic relationships that needs to be worked in a kind of quite instrumental fashion. So you'll find for example in that postal relationships that family life comes to be defined by guilt a lot. Because they're reliant on others see themselves as kind of trapped in this extended adolescence whether relying on family to support them for extended periods thompson. Really wants to often if lee family and go to london as many other people do but nonetheless to see that you find the impacts of on founding life being particularly difficult as well and so what we do apps that controversially but nonetheless it's interesting is we have a section in the book where we look at music and asked whether or not we could think of music as being. Could we use this as a prison to understand music making if we think of as a gambling addict. Okay what we do. Is we get the features of a gambling addiction from the dsm five The diagnose can statistic manual of mental disorders. And we say through these features of a gambling addiction. I mean change. The road gamble to the word. Making music than musicians would hit a low of these characteristics of gambling addictions for example one of his injury. To one of the features is a change. What gambling to making music restless irritable when trying to cut down on stop making music frequent thoughts about making these such as reliving past music making experiences planning the next music venturo thinking of ways to get money to make music making music feeling distressed after losing money while making music returning to get even chasing your losses jeopardizing losing a significant job and all educational career opportunity because of making music relying on others to help with money problems caused by making music. That's that's wild. Act so there on nine features that constitute a gambling addiction in the five and if four out of the nine are achieved. It says that you have a gambling addiction. Well musicians are the ones that we do. Easily take five. Maybe six of the nine and what we're not. We're not saying that he's making a gambling addiction. What we do is we use as an interesting prison. Three which to explore the fact that this seeking to and it's not making music plus say that's the issue is the seeking to build correa as the issue and the way in which has such a light using these big some corrosive or but the way it has such an intense relationship on the lives of people around them. They will all interviews that we talk about. They will talk about the guilt of relying on that girlfriend. The guilt of having to live with mom the fact that they lost important. Points in allied. I've been chasing this and it's it's the whole life. It's not it's not. It's not like a hobby. People like doing forbid a fun. It's it's we we use Han law in the book and talk about it being patient in a non occupation in like. What's your occupation. Don't keep patient in that occupied you. Being perpetually occupied by this work the impact of housing everyone around them so personal relationships let that professional relationships come defined by competition wasn't lost people speaking to. I'm above this person on this poster yet. Good 'cause like that must be bigger than them whereas in facts. They will let friends that they wanted to like. Make songs with. But in fact it's not like social thing of getting together and being creative. It's like where am. I conditioned myself the moment in my career. And how am i moving. Food in the final bit of the chapter says like we need to look at the way women musician musicians experienced that relationships in particular because what they told us about their relationships particularly striking sexual abuse misogyny music industry Women we talked about and we went back and spoke some people Happy frustrating three. This just double check with them until about sexual abuse. They experienced over that career the way in which by experienced increase online being very different the harassment bullying being different away. That men were because at age was a factor the way they looked in the way. They're objectified as parts of their competitiveness with others. And so it saying that we needed to look at the experiences of the women. We spoke to differently because they essentially told us. Different things that the features announcement now answer to a question but when you say what are the features of musical work that contribute towards levels of anxiety and depression bad three features not not contain now on. I think that was such a third. The nation had an explanation that is very needed because there's no alternatives. This list described literally knowlton. If nobody saw is breaking it down in the way you all the way you hose of a broken down. I'm mindful of time. I'd love to go into this further. I think Ultra we can get into another time. Where can people find you moment. I'm so i think people can do like if they want to read some of this stuff. If you just put in the speech things in google if you put comedic make you sick. The first two reports that If you want to fine i have to twits. Had like one as a musician but this kind of drifting into being my music at academic on academic one but the main one i use onto its ask context underscore under school. Because that's my musician. Nine contact by having academic at g. most grabbed meal. nah people such as it can make you sick. I think they probably would be the way that people would find me. Probably the easiest george. Musk raven i did myself. There's another george mass graves and we're willing to relinquish them on the video anyway so and just finding the based on the that you've done and based on your experiences as a musician you had a car. Career was to give people going into music now like The the difficult question for me because one of the things we tried to do in the book is to talk. And taylor. With a discussion of what it means for uh us Like music educators. Because like my whole academic teaching is not just about music. Lots of the students. I teach auditing the music business and wanted to be musicians so it's actually very very difficult to square what we found in this research with what we do as practitioners because in a way where saints people dream of working music Actually look what it's like now was difficult is like. We gave the talk about this in belgium college in belgium and we could see the look on ninety students faces. They were like this horrible. I'm one of them. Put the hand up at the end. Just said so. Are you saying we should make these. It and i was saying like no. That's not what we're saying. What we're saying is like what's really really important is that we are aware that this is the reality of this kind of work and to stop believing the myth and the bullshit dressed up around this type of work because the industry is misconstrued is is reliance on these like mythical narratives that simply do not chime with the experience of people's working lives maybe for some they gave but in the research that went echinacea. Speak about the shooting citation the research that i've done a little bit about the life that i've lived linked to much on the life that i've let because an academic sense to what extent is it just mcdermott's but based on the research that we've done in the sheets that we teach were saying. We need to interrogate these myths. More deeply and more meaningfully. We need to understand right that challenging these working conditions which essentially will come to define all of our working conditions and a loss of knowledge economy workers that read this book for example read. The research said this is a bit like working university or all. This is like being also all this is a bit like whatever of knowledge is because knowledge economy creates what s the nature of that work but the musicians so emblematic of that. We need to listen and learn from a tell us because it tells us that needed elect political through solutions to no individualized wants to be more resilient or develop a thick skin like like. That's not good enough anymore actually. That just doesn't work anymore. We cannot individualize a social problem. You just can't do that. And you know ultimately it's a bit like i think to be honest. I think it's the students that we teaching that will end up coming up with the solution supposed to ours. I think one of the things that we've done is we've identified the challenges of working in this environment and in the conclusion we play with some ideas around how we might make that what we might do but the solutions will be socially driven in all individual. Because that's just not. That's not the way you're going to mitigate against the worst excessive this Because the people working in this environment telling us that the I did like hyperbolic like suffering right and you can't just dismiss that suffering low well s music doesn't good enough actually. That is just not good enough. So that's what i hope it. Does i hope it just makes people i can arise and go. Oh wow yes maybe. I should stock Dismissing these experiences this happened a while ago in fashion. You know people in nobody in fashion but everton around inside well Fashion attracts people liked being looked at and therefore have a certain level of anxiety about their body and therefore attracts more likely to develop on erection. But it just no fear known says the bullshit will. They actually says. The structural features of the fashion industry encouraged extremely unhealthy practices amongst the law for people in while this is essentially doing something similar for music and saying. Let's look at this because you know the idea of being a precarious entrepreneur worker very soon will not just be an already isn't now isn't just headdresses. Rent buy seats. Notices a self-employed. Because this is everybody is everybody's problem just musicians just emblematic of it. Exactly i mean now the social media everybody wants walk in there and you know. It's the same next concepts heck is resonant citizens. Georgia is your research is incredible. Weather is for me personally. I find it fascinating given that my son and my friends and musicians and i'm in production so i think this week is phenomenal. I think everyone should readable Link on their can music make you said i'm willing. I'm out loud to have you on a sometime in the future so that we can solve you hundred percent understanding anytime for your time. I really appreciate whom i thank you for having me. I just like to take a moment to kind of remind you guys to subscribe to our show on oprah cost platform and youtube as well as instagram. You can find all these links on. Www dot the no-show dot net. Join us today and be part of the research revolution.

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Be a Clumsy Student of Something with Natalie Nixon

The KTS Success Factor (a Podcast for Women)

14:36 min | 6 months ago

Be a Clumsy Student of Something with Natalie Nixon

"Be a clumsy student of something embrace the ambiguity of learning and all that cultivating you and that will be transferable into your your daily work. Hello everyone welcome to the k- t- s success factor podcasts for women where we talk about challenges senior female leaders face and being happy and successful at work. I'm your host dr sarah e brown. My guest today is natalie nixon. She is president of figuring thinking a consulting firm that emboldens organizations to apply creativity for transformative business result a global speaker and regular contributor to ink on creativity and the future of work she is also the editor of strategic design thinking innovation products services experiences. And beyond she holds a phd and design management from the university of westminster in london. And they be a an anthropology and african studies from vassar college and lives in our hometown a philadelphia. Her new book which has just been released. Is the creativity. Leap unleash curiosity improvisation. In intuition at work. welcome natalie. I'm delighted to have you. Hi sarah thank you so much for having me. And i'm really looking forward to our conversation. I am too so. I have a clue based on what i just read but tell me what the biggest challenges you help female leaders facing business today and what might be the symptoms of that challenge. Well when we're talking about women in leadership a lot of the challenges. I see are in really shifting paradigms and converting what may initially appear as a marginal status converted into something. That's really optimal so for example. I am an african american woman. And i recall that in my twenties i really started to get very resentful of consistently being the only one or one of a few in the room and i entered my thirties and i realized Hang on this is actually an asset and that might have been in part. Because by then i was working for a division of the limited brands. I was living in working abroad in sri lanka portugal travel throughout asia working in global fashioned sourcing and learned a ton from a woman in leadership in southeastern asia that i saw and so by my thirties. I actually understood that. Because i am a woman because i am an african american woman. I actually have out of necessity had to develop an incredible amount of e. q. Political savvy and an ability to read a room within the first minute to understand power dynamics to understand the best way through collaboration to get things done. So that's what i mean when i say that for me. Being a woman in leadership is not about being like the guys but it's really about optimizing and accentuating what may be perceived weakness and identifying it as an asset. We're good and what's the biggest mistake your clients make before they start working with you so i'm creativity strategist and what that means. Is i advised leaders on how to apply creativity in order to get to transform business results in my work. I help organizations and individuals see. The creativity isn't a fuzzy. Woo addendum but there actually is a solid bolt line that we can draw between creativity applying creativity and business. Roi so one of the mistakes that organizations often before working with me is that they are immersed in what i call innovation They are consumed was developing cultures of innovation. But they actually don't know what innovation means or they've got a lot of different definitions perceptions of innovations swirling around so what i helped them to do is to pause take a step back and actually start with creativity because creativity is the engine for innovation. And what would be the number one. Free and actionable tip. You can give my audience to understand an address this challenge now. Well i'll give you two chips one for individuals in one for organizations so for individuals who are trying to become more creative and let me also just take a step back in define creativity fried kardashian. I was gonna ask that next chart. Yeah sure so. In my book the creativity leap leash curiosity. Improvisation intuition at work. It's a product of about four years of research and practice in a lot of thinking about how to democratize creativity how to make it more accessible because in my view we have ghetto is creativity in the arts. So i can't tell you how frustrated high will get what i hear. A person muttered to themselves. Oh i'm not a creative type. Because i can't fill in the blank. Pain draw dance sing right. So artists are excellent at wrangling with discomfort of ambiguity and they are also excellent at dedicating time and space for the wonder that i talk about. I define creativity as our capacity to toggle between wonder and rigor to solve problems. So creativity isn't just something that you randomly pulled out of. Your armpit requires an incredible amount of rigor which is the discipline incessant. Practice time on task showing up over and over again. It's often very solitary. Work is nothing sexy about it and then ended also requires the wonder wonder is all audacity asking humongous. What if questions and big blue sky questions. So it's not about either or it's about getting really agile. Entangling between the two so my tip for individuals is that in order to creativity in your life in your work is. You've got to become a clumsy student of something in our society american culture. We tend to reward mastery and deep specialization. The thing is the greatest masters are also really wonderful tinkerers. They are experimenter's and so. I really advise that we have some advocation. Outside of our work were. We are a student were. We are learning because when you're in a learning mode you You have to have a really sense of humor about yourself. You're making mistakes all over the place. You're constantly having to employ what i call. The three is so the other part of my creativity. Framework is the three i framework which include inquiry improvisation and intuition so when we are clumsy students for example right now. I'm clumsy student of tango and the fox tribe. So i'm constantly asking in reframing questions so i get clarity that's the inquiry part i must be improvisational. Which is to say that. I must be adapted. I must go with the flow of the answer emerging to it's not gonna come right away. It's not going to be crystal clear. And i have to sit with that and i also must use my intuition to make decisions. Intuition is something that i define as pattern recognition so my tip for individuals as a clumsy student of something embrace the ambiguity of learning and all that it cultivating you and that will be transferable into your. Your daily work for organizations might tip is to embrace what Jury hershberg to be the head of design for nissan international. He called it creative. Abrasion so jerry hershberg. Whenever he was working on design challenge he would insist that people from sales and finance and manufacturing be part of the team. He understood that friction which is something that most of run away from the ending result of friction is energy and so he really embraced the abrasion and the friction that results when we have to work with people who are have different skills from us who approach problems differently. We have to unpack are charted. We have to learn something new. So there's a learning curve initially but ultimately There's some bear right in my book. Where i write that. The more diverse the inputs the more innovative the output. So it's absolutely a win win so for organizations they have to build. Cognitively diverse teams have to hire for creativity. They've got to cultivate and they have to sustain creativity so give me a sentence again. The more diverse the input the more what right so in my book the creativity leap at the more diverse the inputs the more innovative. The output interesting. Thank you. I really liked that that's a takeaway message there. So what's a free valuable resource you can share with the women her listening to us today to help them understand this challenge. Better sure if they go to my website which is figure eight thinking dot com that's f. i g. r. e. the number eight thinking dot com. They will mmediately see on the upper banner an opportunity to download a free sample chapter of my book. An in that first introduction in chapter they will get access to some of the visuals that i refer to also see on my website a lot of content and the opportunity to opt into my newsletter so i would recommend that they download that chapter and if they are intrigued than they should go ahead and buy a copy of the creativity leap. It's available on amazon. And barnes and noble at your local bookseller in paperback on audible and on kindle terrific. So not only. What's one question that i should have asked you. That will help my audience. Take action to address this challenge and then would you please answer the question sure. Maybe it's kind of related. To course that i'm going to be launching a couple of months so i think the question that i really have been very interested in of late is. How do we get unstuck ned. While my consulting practice has been on the level of helping organizations. I now am expanding my business offering to also help individuals and really with this question of getting unstuck. So i'll be launching an online creativity course really what that mission in mind. It's the course will be a companion piece to the book and one of the reasons that we get. Unstuck is by practicing wonder in rigor and i mean that in very intentional ways. So i'll give you two short examples. One of the ways that i routinely practice wonder to help me get unstuck is. I literally take daydream. Bricks so wonder is about all a dass. Ity pausing asking blue sky questions and so i will set my timer to five minutes. I'll go outside and sit on the steps. I'm from philly. So we're a big front step culture. And i'll just Daydream looking up at the clouds. And if it's cold outside. I'll do that standing by a window. So that's what. I mean by one of the chips. You can use to start to get unstuck. It's really important to allow your brain to not only be focused on the intense. A deeply focused work. That's in the frontal lobe but also for the neuro sent. Naps is to be every wired for that kind of marination of ideas. That's required for breakthrough ideas and for rigor. I also get using a timer. I recommend that you set a timer for twenty minutes. You turn off the phone. You turn off any music in the background you turn off any alerts and notifications and for me. Because i'm a writer as well. I will do what i call a rigor sprint and i will do heads down work on. Whatever the topic is that. I need to be really deeply focused on and twenty minutes. Doesn't seem like a lot of time. But if you do that every day you look up at the end of the week and you actually have something quite actionable that you can. Then deploy very cool natalie. Thank you so much for being my guest today. You're welcome nice to meet you sarah. Thanks for listening to the ktf. Success factor podcast for women. If you like what you were hearing please go to itunes to subscribe us and leave a review and if you would like more information on how we can help women in your organization to thrive thank go to www dot sarah e brown dot com. You can sign up for our newsletter reach show notes and learn more about our podcast guests read. My blog routed the books or contact us for chat. Goodbye for now

dr sarah e brown natalie nixon university of westminster vassar college asia Jury hershberg natalie jerry hershberg sri lanka portugal sarah philadelphia kardashian Roi london nissan barnes ned amazon
How a deadly virus is born

The Signal

13:08 min | 1 year ago

How a deadly virus is born

"This is an ABC podcast. Chinese health authorities are still working to identify the virus behind a new moon. It outbreak in the central city of has identified as a previously unknown corona virus growing concerns about the dangers corona virus from China and health officials have confirmed that the virus can spread from person to person what looked at first like pneumonia outbreak. In Rural China has turned out to be a new virus specifically corona virus. The strain is deadly it's spreading and scientists still trying to work out how to stop it. I'm Angela and I'm Stephen Stockwell. Well down the signal what takes virus to evolve and how why are you should a about this one so it is hard to know exactly how worried to be about this right totally. I mean the easiest thing to is to just start panicking about a pandemic which is obviously a wild overreaction but the it's a good reason that people are paying attention to this destructive corona virus in China right so at the time that we're recording this. The number of known cases exceeds four hundred across five countries countries including the US. The World Health Organization is holding an emergency meeting to talk about this virus as more and more people get sick in Asia and now we're learning that the number number of deaths is also growing. South Korea has confirmed the first local case of the mysterious corona virus from China has confirmed a second case. It'd be mysterious arenas corona virus. Who's being tested for a deadly? New Strain of virus has been released from Hamas relation in. Brisbane is growing and that virus. Iris hasn't outcome can North America. The Center for Disease Control in the US is confirming the first case of the virus in that country. Three quarters of those cases are in China and they we can all be traced back to this one place. The first reports we heard were that it was associated with a particular market in in Wuhan. That's David Smith. He's a clinical and a professor at the University of Westminster alias. School of Medicine and initially the report said it was a seafood market but it transpires they actually have a number number of other animals that live animals that are there including bats So we the initial reports this all associated with this and it sounded very much like what what we saw is where there was a bat virus which had crossed into humans via primarily a civic canseco from the bats and then those Civic Katzrin the markets. And they were they were sold there and then transmission could there so it the nominee nominee signs like a similar sort of setting here in that. There's people who are having contact with mall animals that may be carrying these viruses and something has has happened to allow it to get into that. The people at that market so people at this market started getting sick but it took a little while to work out what was going on because unlike say Ebola. This strain of coronavirus doesn't have especially dramatic symptoms especially to begin with the virus for seeing is it belongs to a family of viruses cool Khurana viruses and corona viruses are found in animal populations around the world and also there are some finding human populations the viruses that have been president animals and humans are a bit it different than the humans are adapted to humans. And they've generally caused justice sort of common call type illness. We didn't often often seem more severe infections but now on three occasions with this one we know that some of those animal corona viruses have skipped across into human populations and certainly and have been able to cause more severe disease. What's the Wuhan Hin carnivorous due to people? I guess we're still trying to get the full clinical picture of of what happens when paper and effective because it's still very early stages we certainly another clinical illness. That people get can vary quite widely from being simply a favor with maybe a cough or sore throat right right through to more severe pneumonia way. The virus actually gets down into the lungs and of course the new money can lead to to death and we've had some fatalities from already. What we don't know fully at the moment is what proportion of people will get more severe disease and also the other thing? We don't know how many many people who may have been infected who really didn't get anything much at all and and whenever scene and diagnosed so we haven't really got an idea of what proportion a portion of people get bad illness and what proportion people get really bad illness. So what is it that so scary about this particular Lavar. Why people worried is it? Is it because it's a combination of being both deadly and also as you were just saying a lot a lot is unknown about it. Look look I think it's a situation for concern but not panic coming. That's and I think the the reason is that the experience which we saw was certainly a very sobering one for us this week saw the galloping rise of SARS severe acute respiratory syndrome and as this new cases emerged quarantines so the SARS outbreak for anyone who has forgotten happened in two thousand and three it spread to more than two dozen countries infecting eight thous people seven hundred seventy four of whom died. It was pretty easily transmitted. And although we don't know for sure this new outbreak doesn't look like it's behaving saving in the same way SARS did at least in the way that it spreads it's gone into humans it's caused illness in humans. The spread of the virus has has been people with the virus going somewhere else. There has been no spread of the virus within any other populations as yet and and also The the the people who are getting so far many of them have been relatively mild illnesses. Okay so at this stage ninety two pack but you can see why people why because even though there are some key differences disbar shares parts of its origin story. So we wanted to know what are the perfect conditions for new virus. We may be seeing these NAB because we're better etre finding them than we were in the past but there has been an acceleration in the identification of new organisms mainly viruses which have moved from animal populations relations the human populations there are a number of factors which may be contributing to why these events are occurring now one of them certainly is the level Ebola which human populations are moving to areas which normally occupied by animal studies increasing contact occurring between humans and while Certainly we saw that in Africa with the brakes and that might be related to farming practices as well and clearing clearing land and way of moving to some of them are related to what people's traditional practices are in the sorts of food eight and how the process whether they deal with processed says foods or live animals. We sitting you know for other ones that have emerged or reemerge particularly that some of the ones have been carrying on mosquitoes. For example hold that relates to things like reduction of public health measures mosquito breeding areas and therefore more of those insects. It can carry the viruses. But there's no one thing you can say that's that's the cause of it. It's a complex thing that were nights to human human behavior and the way in which we interact with environment animals you mentioned that this bane an acceleration acceleration in these kinds of viruses emerging. Does that worry you. I mean you say you're not especially worried about this particular corona in a virus just at this stage but overall acceleration must must concern you right. Yes yes if you look. At major events which threaten human human populations in emerging infectious diseases are there. The prime candidate of course is pandemic influenza But anything that spreads by their sphere tracks either because we have to breathe. Anything that's spread by. That route is particularly worrisome. I guess the stage where we're learning a lot more but we still don't know everything we'd like to know about how we can predict and prevent these sorts of incidents. The other thing we have is a number of these seating groups of viruses for which we don't currently have thank scenes things or any antiviral treatments for so we don't really have any specific interventions. That will stop them either. We're getting better at it. Every time I think in the future as well we have quicker and better ways to look at Vaccine Development Velopment and anti viral development so that will give us a chance to have things already waiting for particular classes of ours arses which we think are the most likely to be the ones that will emerge like the corona viruses and to be better prepared for it but it will be the nature of of the human population and Ecosystems. Is these risks will never go away. And that's something we have to live with. How far off are we from the point that you describe where we'll be waiting essentially with the solutions whether that's Vaccines Doc? Scenes mapping by the time that these viruses arrive. How far down the road is that point? That's a difficult. Want to answer for some of them Whom we're making a lot of progress with influenza for example but that's high on everyone's priority list for many of the others were still in the early stages so I think we're really talking in decade to a more for fully fully ensuring ourselves against getting emergency diseases so like David was saying way definitely learning? But we didn't see this one becoming. The focus is very much containment right now. Especially at international borders is because Australia has significant number of international travellers us from Wuhan in from China. We are putting in place some additional proportionate border measures. They're three direct flights from Wuhan to Sydney everyone. Everyone which is a lot right global than I was expecting so naturally Sydney airports all around the world ramping up health screenings. There was even a guy in Brisbane being being monitored in isolation he has since been cleared. But it's bad to say that this is very much still unfolding so when is the right time to worry more more efficient human to human transmission is the really worrying feature these so it becomes more like flu ours than now. We have this figure which people calculate which is for every person who is infected. What's the average number of other? People are getting tactic from them with flu viruses. That might be two or three and sometimes more depending and that means that they can be very a rapid spread with the SARS virus. It was just a one and with simple measures as quarantine at USA personal protection things. He's like masks. and that was easily to drop that that figure to below one selling average less than one person was infected from. Anybody already had the infection that meant it was going to act so if it becomes more like a flu virus than we we have a problem. We have a problem now but we we have a big problem. Then I feel common. Do you feel comma. Always come. You are aren't you it that's the signal today and if you are listening to us on an APP that allows you to write us Please feel free to do that. We do love to get your feedback and we'll be back in your tomorrow. We'll catch you then by booth you've been listening to an ABC A._B._C.. podcast discover more great A._B._C.. podcasts live radio and exclusives on the A._B._C. Listen Up.

China USA Wuhan ABC Brisbane pneumonia Ebola David Smith World Health Organization Wuhan Hin Asia Center for Disease Control Hamas SARS South Korea cough Angela University of Westminster Sydney pandemic influenza
 How to find life beyond Earth - Science Weekly podcast

The Guardian's Science Weekly

36:02 min | 1 year ago

How to find life beyond Earth - Science Weekly podcast

"The Guardian when it comes to existential questions whether or not we are alone in the universe. This is a big and important as they come. Could we be one step closer to answering this week. Researchers at the University College London announced the first discovery water in the atmosphere of a potentially habitable super cooled ketu eighteen presenting eighteen th this is the first discovery of water vapor in the atmosphere was rushing in this absolute we speak to the UCLA team about they're finding and what it means for the search for extraterrestrial life we talked to Nassar's chief. Astro biologist about the formidable challenges involved in the search the life far from our own planet including the crucial role played by strange life here on earth. There is no silver bullet that says life unless possibly possibly we catch a glimpse of green Martian draft galloping across the landscape pretty much not gonna find that insoluble and you're listening to this signs weekly from the Guardian beyond the pages of science fiction. How realistic is the search for extraterrestrial life. It's a subject that challenges our ideas about what life is while pushing technology to the limits. We'll hear about some of this a a little later on but let's start with Lewis Darnell and astro biology research scientists professor in Science Communication University of Westminster so far life hyphen our solar system has only been found here on earth leading many scientists to turn their attention to more distant planets all stars other than the sun. I asked Louis about the kinds of observations we make in this area. If we're talking about and earth like Xhosa Planet the principal technique is is spectroscopy. We we take the light from this other planets orbiting another star in the galaxy and we we make a rainbow out that lights you split it into its spectrum and then we look for particular absorption features in that spectrum we look for the total fingerprints different gases in the planet's atmosphere so we can affect you read the makeup of its air a chemistry atmosphere and turns a biasing riches. One of the strongest bias inches that we'd be looking for is a mixture of two gases in an alien planet's atmosphere. We'd be looking for oxygen mixed with methane because auction methane are both very reactive gases that they would expect to react with each other to produce carbon dioxide on a short timescale among the time scale of of a century or two so you see both auction and methane an extra extra solar planets atmosphere that tells you that it's it's out of balance is out of librium so some biological process has released the oxygen and McCain but more importantly that process has been operating for very recently and how able are we at the moment to look at these kinds of signatures in the atmosphere planets that are actually beyond our solar system four earth-like planets so a rookie terrestrial Israel exercise the planet around the same mass as the earth and orbiting a Ruffy Sun like star these sort of spectroscopy measurements off fiendishly tricky. We're right down on the detection. Administer the threshold of some of the best telescopes we have around the earth and undead above the earth and what we're anticipating to launch in the coming years. He's a very very difficult measurements. You're looking for a very subtle signal with these signatures. This is be picked up by direct measurements. Would you just be essentially pointing your telescope at the exoplanet or are you doing something more clever with science with the with the orbit of this civil different ways these measurements can be made using telescope collect the light from both off the star and is orbiting planets and of course the stars fof operator than than the planets around it and few time you're too measurements well all so you get the planet orbits around. US Star and you take a spectrum just before the planet passes behind it star in its orbit from our point have you and then again just after the planets has been obscured behind it star and you then affect we subtract one spectrum from the other you can take away the spectrum from the star and leave behind the spectrum has come from planet. You can do subtractive spectroscopy like if a buyer signature were found the kind. You're talking about a mix of oxygen anything that suggests those gases are being produced frequently on that on that body. How far does that get scientists to being able to say. We think there's life that I mean. Presumably that kind of observation alone wouldn't constitute you kind of extraordinary proof. Someone like Carl Sagan would have said you required so finding auction anything in an ellen. Earth's atmosphere would be very very exciting discovery. One of the best ways of explaining that out of that collaboration chemistry is that life has put those gases there any reason that you are. I and she balaj fraction of your listeners. All breathing option at the moment is because life is put it that oxygen is the pollution is the waste gas from photosynthesis and the Earth became oxidized about two point four billion years ago by sign a bacteria single celled photosynthetic organisms and the ocean but there is a caveat here because there is a non living biogenic process for putting lots of auction into an atmosphere as well. I'm this is what happened to Venus our next door. Neighbor Planet the planet is too close to it starts to hot as the star heats up as it matures any oceans on the surface of that in a world broiler way into steam in the atmosphere and H. Two split into hydrogen which escapes because it's very a very light gas and auction which stays he's behind a bit longer so you can get an auction rich atmosphere not through life but effectively as the planet dies as it boils itself dry so let's say in twenty years time we've used our telescopes and we've got ten nearby. Earth like planets auction org auction in our atmosphere. We would know that the majority of those appropriate you to life but we couldn't say with absolute certainty that any one of them mm-hmm how's life on a surface because auction singer. We might have just so happened to have catched a planet is undergoes this. Venus like runaway greenhouse effect and all the things that you can look for in an atmosphere that would say you know what there's no chance. You'RE GONNA get life on this planet. It's just either to toxic or too something there. There are signatures which will say the charts is really low here. Yes and most the time astrobiologist focused on atmospheric biasing choose choose what gases are released life and therefore we can use them as a telltale fingerprint or signature next planet but just as interesting just informative or what are known as anti biasing choose gases might be detect in and exo planet would indicate in fact the isn't life there. I'm one good example of an antibiotic chair would be something like carbon monoxide. Now we know carbon monoxide to be toxic back to human life and indeed other mammals and invertebrates animals because it it effectively blocks hemoglobin carbon monoxide. I binds hemoglobin and stops you then being transport oxygen around your body so to effectively suffocate not for that reason plenty of bacteria so you don't in half mclovin and bloodstreams they've been not poisoned by carbon monoxide in that sense and the reason is much more to do with the fact that carbon monoxide is a very energy rich gas and if we find there for carbon monoxide in a planet. Thomas Fair it tells us that no one's eating it that there's this very available all energy rich source of nutrition on the planet but no life seems to be exploiting that an F. all that would indicate that probably not life our toll that was Louis donal this week University College London release the exciting news that they've detected water in the atmosphere of a potentially habitable planet hundred ten light years away one of the team is Professor Giovanni tenacity from Ucla Center for Space Exoplanet data on. I asked her to tell us about the supra supra. They've been looking at it supplanted that is eight times the mass of the earth and is called K. to eighteen beat and this planet is orbiting Britton starred that is colder for room son and so also slightly closer to this particular star. What is quite interesting about super earth is that it's a the distance to the star makes the planet in the beatable zone of the star which means that is a good distance from the star so that is not not too hard is not too cold and in principle you could have liquid water on the surface if Theresa surface and of course if the condition are permission that how far away is the planet? Do We know what constellation it's in or give us some sense of where it is in the sky so for the moment most of the planet said we're looking at are in in a certain sense in the solar neighborhood of course one under light years away. It doesn't seem like so close but in terms of colitis scale is really really close by so is still far away to for a way to get there but is is in a certain sense again in collective scales is quite close by I think it's in the Constellation of Leo Correct yes so what is the thinking that it's a lump of rock older is a ball of I saw you on what the composition is. So of course the density per se a is just one parameter to define a planet as so of course you need to know much more in order to understand. What does it mean to density so the density is enough to to tell you is something that presumably has an interior that is a mixture of rocky and high SYS given a slightly lighter that density of the earth Venus but again as I said more similar to moons giant planets but then of course you need to do measurements of the atmosphere composition and the standing first of all with reason atmosphere so not to go beyond just one number giving you the density but you were looking specifically the atmosphere of Kato Eighteen be. Why was the atmosphere so interesting well we are very interested in general about the atmosphere this exoplanets because these are the gazes envelope which is the atmosphere is the only part of the planet planet that in principle you can observe directly fortunately we can't really send a probe to discipline is too far away so you can't dig into the plan? It's lower doing in our room assist them for many objects in a row so the system so we call to do that but giving the miseries. MEDO Gas gas can be a transparent to some type lights and so you can use basically this information to find out what is the chemical composition of the atmosphere and through that then you can understand also the chemical composition of the planets in his bulk so you use Hubble observations to look at the atmosphere. Is that right. Yes thus correct. hobble at the moment is basically the only instrument we have up in space that is able to tell us something about the the chemical composition of his amnesties is not perfect for many reasons. You know this relatively all the instrument is great still there and he's still giving us tastic measurements and also in principle rely to look at different type lights so moving a bit mood. Tuesday infrared compared to what we can do with Hubbell but that's already great we can do without and the glimpses we can get out of the atmosphere really gives us a lot of appetite for future observation with more performing instruments. So what did you find wealth to our great surprise surprise because you never know where you're going to find and and the more you do models to predict the more typically. There are no really correct. Tell US apprised we could see a pretty strong signature water vapor that on means that first of all the reason atmosphere on top of that planet's and again being a super growth is not given you could even have a bear planet but there is an atmosphere and the reason I must say that contains significant amounts of water vapor and that is quite amazing given that this is a planet again in the zone and such water is one of the ingredients that we put a list for a planet to be habitable shows this a I in any way it is it is a first and also through these observation can you can also estimate quite well out of the observation temperature because normally if you don't have this imus ferrick measurements you estimated temperature in a certain sense by a little bit of a guest speakers you were cows are far is the planet from the Star and then and you do some models to estimate roughly ward is the specter temperature but this estimate is very approximated fruit is measurement it could also constraint much more temperature on the planet which is really spot on in the habitable zone is really not very far away from the one breath. What does this mean for the habitability of the planet. I mean to even know what life needs. In an atmosphere. That's absolutely great question because for the moment the only example of inhabited planet we have is the earth and that's it and we tend as scientists to STROPPA late out of the earth but but it's a very juice centric view as you can understand and so we need for you to have similar survey show for more and more of planets in the so-called Bozon to understand for all whether that Abbottnicholson really is a good indicator of habitable condition or not but most importantly this particular taking a planet is not her three zero is in a certain sense a causing not earth is not read the twin is heavier to start with and on top of Water Vapor Vapor. There are some indication that there is still hosting some hydrogen so clearly demonstrate recomposition is not the same or the earth and so what does it mean for life I mean of course there are lot of models and debates in the scientific community and in principle been heavier still contains a margin. It's not a big problem for life. You can have life even earth. They're absolutely fine with this kind of parameters. But of course it means that that we needed to send a little bit more about habitable conditions especially when we're looking at planet dot organic causes of the Nord Executives train so what is next for Y'all tim you're going to be looking more at kt be or you're gonNA move onto other exoplanets to look at their atmospheres. I think all of the above up because you know of course this is a turns out to be an incredible planets. Hulu cats and you don't know the beginning when you make your observation in some cases you have dogs that are streaming promising and then when you look at the observations and you can't start anything for a number reasons and in other cases you you don't really you wouldn't put your pass on that planet and then it turns out that there are unexpected surprises so I think we definitely need to look at more planets in general but this one in particular needs to be absurd more more with different telescopes oops Giovanni to Nettie after the break. We'll talk to Nasr's chief Astro biologist about US space agency's latest work in the search for extraterrestrial life Earth's most hostile environments and the life found in them are valuable guide. Welcome back to science weekly before the break. We heard about the exciting detection of water vapor in the atmosphere of supra. It's the first time water has been spotted on a planet in its star search called habitable zone where the temperature is just right for running water to exist but if we think about taking one step further looking for life forms what kind of techniques offer for that. Dr Penelope Boston is the director of the NASA Astro Biology Institute the AT NASA Ames Research Center in California. She's also expert on subsurface environments. Light Caves and mines some of the most extreme physical and chemical environments on Earth in places like these scientists fine life. Even though photosynthesis is impossible muscle. I started by asking penny about the imaginative leap required when we think about extraterrestrial life. How do we have to rethink what we've learned from. I'm observing life on earth. You know that's a very interesting thing you know. It's a it's a tricky line to walk. Because you know the last fifty years we have learned such tremendous amount about life on earth we've learned how to look at our genetics of ourselves and other organisms. We've learned learned much about the way the ecosystems on Earth Work we've learned a lot about the deep time history of our planet and its many changes inches over the four billion years or so that the planet has been in existence and they probably three point five billion to three point eight billion years that we we have a rock record of some sort of life being present on the planet you know this is a wealth of information on the other hand. We're looking to should find life on other bodies both in our solar system and beyond that have potentially very different properties from Earth. Some are described of course often as earth like around other stars but the only thing we currently mean by that is that it's a planet that is is close enough to its star to be warm enough for the presence of liquid water and our grasp of what earth-like means in terms news of these EXO planets is still very very much in its infancy and so trying to take what we have learned from these many many decades of study in fact hundreds of years of study of life on our own planet and then try to take the fundamental messages that we get out out of that and then reapply those in a novel way but a realistic way to these very different exotic bodies in our own solar system and beyond is really a very challenging intellectual exercise but it's a whole lot of fun. Why is it so important to understand how life exists in these really extreme environments on earth you know the extreme environments on Earth are compelling for several different reasons. One of the the main ones is because we're actually able to see how our type of life is pushing up against the envelope of what it can do the the temperature ranges and the chemical extremes the saltiness or the presence of heavy metals or the presence of very cold hold temperatures acidity or the opposite of that alkalinity all of these factors life on earth has been able to accommodate and so we're trying to expand our understanding of how big that bubble is that encompasses what life can do here and then to try to learn the fundamental demento lessons from that about what are kind of life can do and try to apply that as we look at other bodies in the solar system and beyond when it comes comes to searching for life. How does it differ if you're looking for living organisms as opposed to signs of past life you know that's a great question and it's one that we spend a lot of time thinking about and trying to discern how we do that. I'm MM imagining that a lot of folks have never hunted fossils on earth although some of the the listeners may have and if you have any experience with that you know that's very different from bird-watching so it is a largely rock based enterprise. We're looking for signs signs of previous activity and sometimes you find whole fossils like wonderful dinosaurs and so forth but for the most part we're looking for much more subtle signals so we're looking for the chemistry changes that life makes in the environment in which it once lived it can take chemistry and not only change the chemistry itself but also change the isotope number of the elements within those chemicals so for example carbon which as we know is so important we're largely made out of carbon is one of the main constituency winston makeup the molecules in our bodies. Those carbons can be sorted depending on how heavy they are so there are lighter and heavier versions of carbon urban just like there are other elements and life prefers the lighter ones and so on this planet we know that and so we can try to track the lightness of the carbon the heaviness of the carbon the same thing is true of sulfur even nitrogen and we can get climate signal from looking at the heaviness of oxygen atoms so different weights and so some of the evidence. Is You know potentially very visual that is bio textures that microbes can create eight as their living which get preserved and stone all the way to these very subtle chemical indicators their challenges all over the place when it comes to doing this this kind of science and when you talked about before is this need to take simultaneous measurements. Can you just walk us through that. Why why is that necessary. We you know in the extreme environments environments on Earth. One of the things that we learned is that the Organization of the organisms is very patchy so if I look at a very rich environment like if I were going to swab your throat for strap organisms right if you had a sore throat and I I would play that out on an Auger plate and those organisms would appear everywhere because they're used to lots of food the food could could be you and when I swab it onto a plate then the food is what I've put in the plate and so we see a lot of growth but in these very low nutrient environments where organisms have to work very very hard they're not evenly distributed there in little clumps and sometimes those little clumps are centered around around extra rich bits of nutrient but in many cases the forces which enable them to array themselves in the environment are not real. Oh clear to us. They seem to have some potential properties of self organization which is something that we really don't understand very well yet and so we're looking being for needles in haystacks tried to second guess where those needles might find themselves and we have to look at these environments not just the bulk properties of what we can easily measure by scooping up large amounts of stuff but how do we actually look for these very tiny potentially tiny very discrete places where we have organisms and this means that we need to employ a lot of different ways of trying to sense that as we look at the environment and we need to look look at it at the scales at which these types of organisms live and you know we do have spectacular large deposits of minerals on Earth Earth that are clearly influenced heavily and in some cases produced by the presence of the microorganism so in those cases we have big eyeball the ball size things that we can look at but in many cases we don't see that you know if you look at your feet and look at a a bare patches of soil that's teeming with micro organisms but to your. I don't see any of them and so we have to go down to smaller scales and chemical chemical means to actually try to figure out who's there and what are they doing and when you're in an environment with very little free energy for those organisms to live have the problem of finding them becomes very very much greater and so that's what we're trying to tackle because we assume that in many of the bodies in our solar system particularly places like Mars that life that we may find there may be very very very isolated in little patches. Another issue is the the two ration- of missions. Is it right that the missions typically don't last very long that itself can be a problem yes that I mean that is definitely definitely one of the limitations that we have been up against Many people in the communities are relevant to this. Both the technology and the science are thinking about how how we can work our way forward towards longer term monitoring of environments and I think this is definitely one of my pet subjects because the work that I've done on earth in the subsurface in caves and mines and the organisms that we've been able to actually grow and keep going in the lab many cases take many years to even show that they're growing and so I know the value as do many of my colleagues at work in similar environments with organisms that are very very very slow to change do anything that you know a quick snapshot is only giving us a glimpse of what we ultimately want to interrogate harrogate and so of course we certainly have aspirations for eventual human presence on Mars and one of the things that astronauts astronauts can be imagined to be doing in the future is actually you know continuing the search for life on Mars. If we have not uncovered it by by the time we actually get ready to send humans a lot of the chemistry that has dom on planet than another bodies to look for say bio signatures is by Marcus it. It seems to be incredibly sensitive and so when we're talking about robots. There's presumably always this risk that you carried something with you. From you have some microbes on board already that will always be in the back of your mind. I actually just analyze something I took with me. How does an agency enough to deal with that potential risk. We you know we take it tremendously seriously and this is a this has a hugely long history. the first discussions discussions about how we protect life that we may find on other planets how we don't mistake earthlife for that life and and how we also protect our own home planet against the possibility of bringing something deleterious back from another planet when we get to the point where we're actually bringing samples back from some of these bodies has occupied us for the whole history of NASA the first discussions of this started in the late nineteen fifties which was the time at which NASA was created and the space age was just starting. We have a planetary protection office within NASA that deals with this there are stringent guidelines for different bodies so for example the moon we are quite confident at the moon does not and has not housed intrinsic life it may have received splashes of earthlife you know from the past past but it doesn't have an indigenous life process going on and so the requirements for moon our documentation careful documentation mutation because you know we're scientists and engineers we document everything and so we wanna know what Earth organisms we may be taking as we as we are ramping up along with other space agencies to return to the moon but very sensitive objects like Mars Mars landing are some some of the most sensitive stringent requirements that we have for reducing what's known as the Bio burden which is just a terminology way of saying. Hang how many bugs you have aboard how many microbes you have on board and what is the acceptable level of those one of the good things. It's on our side for surface landing. Mars missions is that the Mars Environment on the surfaces so extremely hostile itself that there is some you you know help in terms of the very very dry conditions and the high rising radiation and the high ultraviolet levels that you know fall aw on spacecraft when they're on the surface but that doesn't mean that we send them dirty we send them very very clean and we send them with a very very low amount out of buried biological contents. We're facing challenges now as we're thinking into the mid to far term firm range about how are we going to look at things below the surface of Mars That's one of my own personal particular interests in this is an idea that has been gaining traction slowly within the agency and elsewhere because we know that the sub surface of a planet like like Earth and presumably Mars is very different from the surface and we want to be able to study that but because it may be a more promising place on the planet on it for Life we have to then be extra careful as we go forward to try to protect that I'm wondering if you have a sort of future gays and think about where the first signs the first convincing signs might come from whether you think those will come from these people looking way beyond our own solar system or whether with a solar system is self looks very promising to you and I know Nassar is has another robot going back to Tamaz. I think next year or the office it's also talk about places like enceladus and Europa and you know these interesting moons of some of the further out planets. How do you rank these. I suppose you know I such a space cadet that I love them all and I have. I have a bet with a friend of mine. Seth Shostak doc who is a specialist in Seti which is search for extra terrestrial intelligence which is something that we're not directly working on in NASA but of course most most of us are quite interested in it my with him is that we're likely to find signs of life not necessarily intelligent life but signs of life on an EXO planet before we nail it down here in our own solar system and my reasoning for that is that we're finding more and more and more and more and more exoplanets and so it's a numbers game and even though the quality of the data is so much more restricted than what we can gain in our own solar system. We don't have to work as hard for it and it's a big galaxy so I sort of think that we may see tantalizing signs in the atmospheres particularly when some of the new generation telescopes start coming on board as I'm sure you're aware we've got got a big one that we're working on here. The James Webb Space Telescope which is going to be launching soon. I won't put a date on it but that's a huge project project and you know that is very capable instrument some of whose time will be spent on this planet issue there are many other ideas that are competing within NASA and also with an Isa and other agencies for Scopus that are even more refined in terms of their irritability to let us look at exo planet so I think it's a race to the finish the work that I have done personally obviously pertains directly luckily to our search for life here in this solar system but of course the global scale of what life does to a planet is something of equal interest. Perhaps even greater interest in so that's what we're trying to apply so I'm kind of betting on the exoplanets but working as hard as I can to defeat eat my own bed and hope that we find stuff in our own solar system as soon as possible. I presume also that this search never really ends does so you know if tomorrow we you know stumbled across something with our Mars landers that are there now how and thought it was a strong evidence of life. We'd want to go back immediately to test more and then we'd be so thrilled that that would galvanize galvanize us even more to want to go look in places like enceladus and Europa and maybe even for prebiotic conditions on places like tighten the giant dense atmosphere moon around Saturn. Maybe Pluto which we now know is an active little amazing world so the more you find the more you hunger to find more a big. Thank you to Panetta Allston joining us from NASA's Ames Research Center in California's for new Silicon Valley. Thanks to Giovanna tenacity and Dr Lewis Donald for joining us and you can find out more about their work on the episode page of the podcast but but for now until next time goodbye for more great podcasts from from the Guardian just go to the Guardian dot com slash podcasts.

US NASA Guardian University College London Nassar Louis donal California UCLA principal Carl Sagan Professor Giovanni Lewis Darnell Theresa surface Science Communication Universi professor Ruffy Sun Seth Shostak
PayAdvice, Legislation, & Payroll Software with Simon Parsons #54

The Payroll Podcast

52:09 min | 2 months ago

PayAdvice, Legislation, & Payroll Software with Simon Parsons #54

"Most people think Nash minimum wage is about paying a national minimum wage rate and it's not it's about recording accurate time work and making sure it's off paid following any deductions or other items, which may be considered for the benefits of the employer. So some people think oh if I just pay the hourly rates, that's fine, but then a separate hours rounding. So if someone's in late they knock off 15 minutes when they're five minutes late, or they make them stay behind to catch up after shop closure, but they don't pay them for that time or they make them trained at home. There's also these sorts of things continue and there's an amateur understand and national minimum wage law because the enforcers are coming. Welcome to the payroll podcast with your hosts next day. Find out what it takes to truly discover what it takes to elevate your career within payroll as we meet with the industry leaders who are shaping the industry for tomorrow. Hello and welcome back to the payroll podcast. My name is Nick. CEO of jda recruitment a specialist payroll recruitment firm and host of this payroll podcast, which of course you can find on iTunes Spotify. And of course on our very own website JJ Recruitment and across all other major podcast channels now today. I am joined by Simon Parsons himself off of UK compliance strategies RSD Works who serve over 70000 companies with payroll HR Services worldwide. Now Simon has been a major contributor to sewage works as payroll expertise since Nineteen Eighty-Four besides being influential in the development of s d works as Payroll Services. He's also a major presence on a number of hmrc consultative groups of committees. We're going to find out more about that during the course of this podcast. Simon is also a fellow of the chartered Institute of paraprofessionals and one of the original Masters of Science in payroll management, you may be wrong. Me what that is. Don't worry. We're going to be asking that question in just a moment. So I was also a regular author and speaker on subjects related to awarding payroll. He's chair of Irene the electronic exchange government use a network and honorary chair of a BSC the chartered Institute of it payroll Specialist Group. He's also launched his own website called pay advice. It's a site. I know very well because it basically includes all the breaking news expertise and guidance related to payroll and I have often visiting that site myself to include his articles in our very own JGA weekly paper newsletter. If you haven't subscribed to that either check out Simon's website, which I'll include in the episode notes or our very own now Simon has been named in the reward Hall of Fame list since their Inception in 2009 and has won a number of awards for payroll services, and we're going to find out a lot more about his career during the course of this podcast. So sit back relax and welcome Simon Parsons to the show. How you feeling very good job. Snake and it's very welcome. There. It seems strange. Doesn't it? You think I'm still young. How can I have that sort of pedigree? Absolutely, right it definitely still young no need for God maybe two decades now. So I must be young as well along side you which is great. I mentioned in my intro that you of course were part of the original cohorts of the master of science in Pyromania. I know when I mentioned that there will be many many people in pain. Well, he won't be familiar with what that is necessarily. So I'd like to start with a simple question really which is what is your background? And how did you become involved in the page developer industry? Yes, my background is it but I could I could go back for the neck because my parents were conscripted into the army during the second world war and my father was a crack shot with gun. He could get any Targets volunteered wanted to join the RAF and fly, but he was blind for birth. So got positioned into the army Paycor that's where he met my mother and so you could say a genetic payroll is in my genes sort of thing. So both of them met with my father became a charter secretary. My mother was an accountant but in the army pay course, so I started left school joined. What was an alliance in their it department, but about four and a half years in then was recruited by Center file in London. So went and commuted to Cannon Street Station just near the bank of England where the center File Office was and started my career. You could say in payroll it development writing new payroll software solution back in Nineteen Eighty-Four amazing. So tell us about the master of science in payroll management. What was that all about? So yes number of years working at Centerfolds. I asked them if I could actually probably follow in My Father's Footsteps and study for the church. To Institute secretaries to kind of deal with business law and accountancy and they said no but there's this organization what was known as the British payroll Foundation at that time or BPM a they're running a course at the University of Westminster fast course diploma. Would you like to do that? And I said, yes, so I actually joined that but they canceled it because I think there are two thousand you take ups of students. So I then did the 2-year correspondence diploma and then it was announced that one of the annual conferences of what then was I think if the BPM a might start to become the IPP that they were running a master of science and so along with five other colleagues from Center file, we enrolled so as part of that first cohort of joining the master of science, which is a joint Enterprise between the University of Westminster then and what is now the cipp took a couple of years too long. Take that course and graduated with Merit and carried the initials. It's strange actually going to University especially as an older student because they treat you like a kid, you know, nothing because you're not qualified in anything even though you may have the depression or imperil management. They treat you like, you know, nothing and then the day you graduate you treated like you're an expert so it's really strange God lights are think it's moved on a little bit since then you've obviously seen as you said the well I first came into industry. I think it was the ipb em, but you've obviously seen it change many times. We obviously for those new to the industry listening to this now that we more familiar with the cipp acronym and but of course you mentioned there you initially joined sensor file in Nineteen Eighty-Four not everyone listening to this will be familiar with sensor file. It's a business that I knew. Well my first came into recruitment as I said nearly twenty years ago when he joined in Eighty-Four you left for a couple of years and joined again in eighty-nine and then again rejoined. Yep. Follow when the owners Ceridian rejoin sensible in ninety-seven who of course are now owned by SD Works, which is obviously who you are employed boy. Now, you've also one CIP person of the year in 2006 the parallel lines of or advancing the power profession in 2010. And of course, what I would say is the highly-coveted strathern Lifetime Achievement Award in 2012, so you've had some Journey and it's been an exceptional payoff career if I may say so myself what I would like to ask them is what have you really learned during this time? And what is it you you love so much about payroll. That's that's LED you to you know, launching your own thoughts and actually for those aren't familiar giving so much back to those that need supports very much on a pro bono basis and you only do that really if you've got a real passion for the subject to tell a little bit about how about your passion and your journey? Sure. Well, I seem to have a natural Knack of understanding complex T especially around payroll law. So it is a little bit of one of our speciality he's dead. Probably irritates a few people maybe because it just reads relatively clear to me what the meaning is behind the law and which is possibly differently in terms of government. But there's an element of we're going through very strange times. We have been now for a couple of years going through the brexit negotiations and even through into the pandemic overall industry is in disarray with the amount of chain and payroll software development is very strange notification of changes very late, the National Insurance changes, for example for this year weren't notified until January. That's the latest I've ever known in it. And so there is a fear passion I tend to say of wanting things to be here and available for the industry so that the software developer Community can get on with it as it were and I've been involved first meeting property Norman green back in ninth. 99 I'm saying from memory and Colin broad those sorts of characters that have been around for years and pair of software development at the BCS and being involved meeting with government officials to find out what changes were impacting. And for some reason it's just organically grown in the interactions with governments wage be a bit of a market to be honest Nick if someone wants help I'll usually volunteer. So for example, I'm I'm the chair of Peter District Scouts. So all the scouting in Pittsburgh. I share that District. I don't run The Scouting but I tear it and you know, I've been a lay Minister and a missionary before it seems chair of Irene Cara PCS, it seems like if someone saying oh we got anybody that can help hers. For some reason. I forgotten to step two paces back on my hand seems to go up automatically and I am dead. Helping I don't know if that helps a little bit on where the passion comes from. But when when I first joined sent file, which is now SD works. So Center file in those days was not WesBanco taken over by Ceridian and now is SD Works Belgium Group that's been going for 75 years in the payroll industry. So it's a little bit of a celebration there. One of the biggest birth is there are probably in the UK as well. When I first joined them. They kind of gave me a little task and and I thought, you know just got this little problem for you Simon that we think you'd be good at. Could you solve that and I did and then I we've got another one would you do that? And I did that as well. So if I talk about what those were one was directors National wage and the other was attachment of earnings orders. So they wanted an automated solution that would just come in do it and this is back in the eighties and there's an element of yeah, we did then we put them in the saloon wage. They were really well even work till today. So then realize that actually they were given me the deaf jobs that no one else wanted to do and I guess being the new boy you get that, you know, it's kind of get the two tone paint and took a two-time paintbrush type activity, but I did so I did find the two tone paint in the two tone paint brush and it does paint to tone up and down the wall. So I had a little bit of a knack for dealing with those sort of really complex areas and that's continued throughout but I found that actually to get on don't be afraid of difficult things off once heard an interview with Claire Rayner where she mentioned that she was a struggle to that time single mom desperately needed a job and went for an interview at the interview. She did really well and they offered to the post but one of the conditions that she knew how to operate a piece of machinery and she said she did but actually she dead. So she didn't know how to operate at all but so she was going to join in a week or two. She found out the manufacturers and went there and had a demonstration of this medical equipment that needs to be used and she was the most proficient user of that in the hospital. They'd had I think there's an element of don't be afraid of difficult things delve into it find out what it's about box and give it a go and if you fail does it really matter because no one else could probably do any better and you've learnt along the journey. So I think I've always learn not to avoid difficult circumstance. I think it makes you strong. It's a bit like doing Fitness training or doing physical outdoor activity actually brings a little bit of excitement. Is it wrong to say the pyros exciting? I don't think it's a lot thinking about related that very well. I mean certainly I've I'm definitely someone that's leaned on you for advice and support for when I've had queries from clients and khong That's that you know, I'm not a pale expert in terms of legislation whatsoever. So I tend to pass them on to you and maybe I'm one of those monkeys and jumps in your back and says, can you help and you always send to say yes, you've always been a superb support for me in those situations, which I even great. Thanks for but I think it's also a great quality that you you're out there trying to help others and I think that shows the your career as well. And with the with the awards that you've won you mention that you've also been chair for the BSE payroll Specialist Group for a number of years. I understand you were recently re-elected by the members again, so congratulations there and you also chair of Irene. So I just wonder if you could tell the listeners, you know little bit more about what the BSC Pals versus group is and and and and and Irene as well who they represent and what they actually do. Yeah. So the BCS national stand for British computer Society, but they tend not to use that long-term name they call it the BCS the chartered Institute by T. So it has the Royal Charter and it's there to represent all Software developers in the United Kingdom but it is a worldwide organization as well. So has members throughout the world but it has a payroll Specialist Group and that payroll Specialist Group is formation of software developers who meet together with government probably about three or four times a year. Normally, it's been very difficult through 2020 to meet wage. It's been very difficult to get missing at government as solid they represent the software industry in promoting standardization understanding of complex Solutions off an implementation so that we're ready. Now this year is very strange because we don't actually know what changes are happening in April 2021. So we'll have to see how things go Iraq being used to stand for the Inland Revenue electronic exchange network, but a group of people that were dealing with electronic exchange with governments formerly known as e d i e These days you might call it RTI or XML the precursor to RTI meta Aston Villa football club and there are a number of interactions between large employers who are interacting with government electronically that John Woods of hmrc suggested or Inland Revenue in those days suggested that we form our own user Network and that was wage both of Irene. So it has about nine hundred members and represents in effect all of employers in the United Kingdom to promote excellence in electronic exchange and help Lobby or encourage or jostle hmrc into making improvements. For example, the earlier year update is no more. It's replaced by a full-page submission at end of year for corrective activity from 20 21. That's just one of the sorts of things that Irene would have attempt to lobby for an exchange with our hmrc log. Software development support team colleagues and policy-makers to encourage Improvement. It's bigger than I anticipated know. That's why I didn't realize it was so big with nine hundred members. I've probably anticipated it to be be much smaller, but it sounds like it's it's a large group sounds like it's needed as well. It's quite you've got the h m r c involved. I've read a couple of acronyms which a big wage and pip. Can you tell me what they are b i b m p i p. Yes, there are some groups some years ago where the government consultation and seem to be having some trouble or areas own needs to be explored within some industry reps. So I'm very inclusive some organizations. Sometimes aren't but I'm a very inclusive sort of person. So, how's the priest P Society? We are there to represent all software developers. So there's an element of when we wanted to bring in real time information or the hmrc did the government did And collaborate on it that we promoted the formation of bib, which is the BCS Irene Ambassador. So Buster is a business accounting software developers Association by Bowling Green is the chair of the payroll group for them and we work very closely together and the intention is to work together with government. So hm she have a big group buddies have a big group and it tends to be same about 8-10 the software developer Representatives that are representing the industry has a choice themself. It's important that they represent all developers rather than just their own personal interest. Although they'll be an element of a bias there, but it's important that they represent the industry and that led into pip. So hip was I'll say it the way I believe it should be so that's payroll industry and pensions. The pensions will say it off. Insurance industry and payroll but don't remind say it's payroll industry and pensions and that's a group that actually initially met with Steve Webb in the DWP offices of text and house to explain to him why pension he would not work and then he brought in some changes with the policy people there to actually make it that ancient AE could work off October 2012 and it's generated since in the formation of a standard data standard called practice and also in regular consultation meetings with the DWP and dedication regulator a liaison officer. There is a chat called Andy Nichols who I know very well from the past as well used to be a an IPP or c i p p or b e p m a tutor off the old days. I used to come along across him at some of the weekends schools. But yeah, it's to promote pension a establishment now. Hopefully that explains those acronyms. It does I think it's great because you know, I've been in this industry for an awful long time. I'm not as I say a payroll processing professional but it's amazing to see there's so much going on, you know out of out of my eyes shot. If you like. I wasn't familiar with these with these kind of organizations or groups or or people of people coming together. It's for the betterment of the paper industry, which is fantastic and just goes to show the scale of it and actually, you know often were very focused on the administrative office safe side, and we for me it's easy to forget there's a whole software development side to it as well which absolutely needs to be considered that ultimately drives the administration side. So, yeah, it's exciting to to know what's going on in great to have you been part of that and what I'm sharing most of these committees as well, but you of course if you are also involved in the original hmrc Moses project, I know the SD works or one of the very first electronic exchange organization were heavily involved in the consultations and the design of real-time information with hmrc as well. I understand your specialism SD works now is related to compliance strategies in the apparel industry wage. So what do you think the big risk challenges are now for UK PLC and also maybe if you can if you could just explain to the listeners a bit more about what that visual hmrc Moses put it off and perhaps also U involvement in the the original design of a real-time information. So it's three questions. They're so I mean if we can dissect those one by one that would be great Moses project was in instigated about nineteen ninety-eight, which was in effect the birth of electronic data interchange. So that's exchange of tax codes between hmrc and employers electronically and also the submission of P 45 P 46 pensions data and and works number updates, which is the precursor to the introduction of RTI. So f d works as it was named point something else but sdworks implemented EDI back in nineteen, ninety. Nine had to go to some unusual measures in effect squeeze the project in under the table. Take a few shortcuts in getting approvals and sneaky development, but we delivered RTI for end-of-year reporting in nineteen. Ninety nine a there will be another organizations that were to come on just before us I'm not going to name them the compared to some of the competitors maybe but we're one of the first and reported that point two point six million P 14 date for Adams electronically took a little bit of time to do that the service improved over the years that then led into off off GI instruction in 2012. And so hmrc sort of came to us. In fact, we met with David gork the former treasury Minister we met with him before the conservative government came into power. In fact, the coalition government came into Power with the concept of this Dynamic tax calculation and spy Banks wage. And kind of resisted that heavily thinking what a disaster that would be but around came the birth of RTI and so as an element of thinking. Okay, let's see what your dreams are dead government H Mausoleum where you want to go. Let's see where the industry is and how can we reach there? But equally there was a team set-up of data items which looked like exactly the same day tritons you would get on a paper form and it was a moment. If we need to transition this from a paper form into actually something more automatic electronic. So we're heavily involved in meetings with hmrc in London quite often BCS offices and hmrc offices to come up with a better design. I'm not sure we never got to Heaven position, but we got a long way from what could have been hell and I think we ended up to something that actually could work. Although it's still wage. Problematical at times following on then from that from the the hell analogy if you like. Obviously your specialism now is compliance strategies within payroll. So, where do you think the big risk challenges aren't now move forward especially bearing in mind everything. We've recently been through. Yeah sure sort of got myself a lot more involved social media wise as well and you have your wonderful group as well Nick and you said the questions and things being raised but for some time there's been major concerns. So the major risk areas. I see in in Peril employment law our national minimum wage. I think that's a pretty much there. It is complex law and little understood most people think national minimum wage is about paying a national minimum wage rate and it's not crazy about recording accurate time work and making sure it's paid following any deductions or other items, which may be considered for the benefits of the employer wage. Some people think oh if I just pay the hourly rates, that's fine. But then they operate our surroundings. So if someone's in late, they knock off 15 minutes when they're five minutes late, or they make the laws they behind to catch up after shop closure, but they don't pay them for that time or they make them trained at home. There's also these sorts of things continue and there's an amateur understand and national minimum wage law because the enforcers are coming and I think that's been seen over the past few years and with the pandemic. I think we may have dropped it a little bit and not realized that actually when things start to get back to North see it could prove to be a major risk area because nmw activity is coming into play. The other area is the tailor review on employment rights and employment law and it's fairly evidence that even though the working time directive came in many years ago that holiday pay practices are wrong. So quite a lot of employers are not actually paying the amount owed. Do in fact the keep Britain paid reports from 2019 identified that 1.8 million employees are not receiving their holiday pay entitlements. They're do under the law time directive and the employment Rights Act and I think from a lots of discussions there is lots of confusion on those sorts of practices and in an area where the snooze single enforcer is going to be appointed by business Enterprise and Industrial strategy the department for to come into play will that be nhmrc as within MW? I don't know. It doesn't necessarily have to be but the new enforcer will enforce holiday pay a national minimum wage law the challenge with holiday pay is at the moment if it's wrong an employee has to take its Court when the enforcer comes in the enforce will make you pay it. So it's not a one by one case the other area. I guess that's coming up is off payroll workers for wage. Cool twenty Twenty-One. So those are currently working as contractors that are actually seen pretty much to be doing the job of an employee will be considered that they need to have tax and then I deducted off their invoice amounts - n e v a t and expenses they may apply to the invoice and that hits larger private sector employers from eight people 20 20 may want are we prepared and I think many will not be and not really reading in time or many employers don't actually know those people exist in their business because they've nothing to do with HR necessarily all the payroll department. So it's an element of major change for April twenty Twenty-One and we've got too much disturbance already with brexit and pandemic so you should start to prepare but there are other things like maternity rights, sorry sacrifices in other area, which is little understood by many. It's fairly complex area, but there's a feeling wage Dolphin that sorry sacrifices about someone buying something. They're not buying anything. They're being given it for free and the basis that they take pay cuts. And so what's the difference and the name is a subtle difference in law that many people just don't understand and there may have been caught out info Grand claims because I suspect that many have claimed fellow grants without realizing that fellow his post sacrifice to pay. So it's tough It's very complex. And sometimes you need very strange Minds like mine. Maybe have to figure it out. I guess when it comes to salary sacrifice, I mean the clear is in the name somewhere if you think about it about what that is as opposed to being a grant because the the you know what it's called kind of gives it away. Well, I would mention for those listings this if you want further advice on national minimum wage governance, and of course the enforcement body consultation piece, that's that's that's not a reference. I have recorded a podcast already called pay governance and the dog Work plan, which is with Helen K and Chris Hobson from Deloitte. It was recorded back in February. And of course as we've seen over recent months legislation moves very quickly, but you may still find some very useful information page pulled the cost. I will try and update some of that information ready for twenty Twenty-One as well. But absolutely right Simon some interesting elements of reference there and I are 35 in particular one. That's very relevant for me as a package that because of course we deal with contractors. So it's a legislation that actually crosses over into my realm and we've got to make sure we're also very much up to speed. So absolutely agree with with those points of race and off and it and it's great as well to just to re reference the importance of pay all and why you know, we need to raise the profile because it is incredibly complex and it's not me made any simpler necessarily with the amount of changes that we're going to be experiencing going forward and I think it's really good to bring that to the fall now, we're going to jump to a quick advert break what we come back. We're going to find out about what the major challenges and opportunities are for the Pearl industry birth. Forward so please stay tuned have you ever asked yourself? How can I recruit payroll staff effectively. Please don't give up on your recruitment project just yet here at JD a payroll recruitment. We appreciate the difficulties associated with attracting recruiting and retaining top payroll Talent. We also understand just how costly app or payroll higher can be JGA recruitment are a niche payroll recruitment agency who will partner with you to Resource payroll candidates who will impact of both the accuracy and efficiency of your payroll department contact us today on 01727 877 or visit caviar.com to find out more welcome back now going to quickly find out before we jump into the future of payroll a little bit more about you Simon if we met so first question short and sharp. How do you age Tax in your downtime as I relaxed during the pandemic. It's been quite tough. So Lego has become a little bit of a hobby during the pandemic. I have four grandsons on a far too young to have grandsons four grandsons. The eldest is for the youngest is about four months. They actually bring a lot of excitement to us as a family and so family time is great when we can have it. The pandemic has been a bit of a strain to an extent with that sort of family life, but fortunately both my wife is primary carer for a lot of those children as my children are all key workers. So access the childcare. Okay, so you could say there's an element of contradictory application of advice on the basis that generally we wouldn't normally makes but for childcare you have to plus all the tier structure differences throughout the UK have to see if that all changes tonight. To see if that fortunately I've tended to be in a lower-tier area. Whereas lots of colleagues have found themselves very much more restricted relaxation wise tends to be a little bit of sport. So I actually went to a first football fixture last week. I saw Posh or Peterborough United as some may know it beats West Ham United and my left thigh that people but they were the actual team in the in the in the Cup match. So that that was great to be in a crowd of two thousand socially distant boss first football game for sometime fortunately or unfortunately. My my son works for the Posh on as a fan appreciation officer. So at is she she's a student teacher so little bit of connection with the football are they my team know Barnsley town and my team Okay. Well, I'm about I'm an avid Spurs fan and this will be published. This is published. The result will be known but we've got Liverpool this evening in the title this side and I would call it but we've won anything for many many years but it does end in a one next year. So if you a Spurs fan, we're automatically optimistic. So this wasn't a listener's a question. I was going to ask you but I just I'd love to get your take on this as a payor profession. You mentioned that your children were all key workers. So obviously Applause when necessary for those individuals who are you know, put themselves at risk to support others. I have seen a lot of quotes I think was cast and stare mentioned, you know, there was Champion pay off that sort of forth emergency service and not not to to be little any of the key workers that are that are putting their lives at risk support others. But have you viewed the payroll industry during this pandemic in the you know in the efforts they've had to go too often in isolation to work very long hours to keep those furlough employees paid and of course that the non fellow employees paid as well handling new legislation almost daily. What's boss Have you been on the payroll industry reacting and adjusting to to what is also been an incredibly difficult circumstance for those for those professionals? Well, right. They're all insane or we're doing it to keep our sanity off seems to be but I think payroll people generally are kind-hearted and want to help and ensure that people continue to be able to live so long they put their shoulder to the wheel if that's an appropriate expression and have really gone past the mark required of helping their colleagues continue to keep Brittany paid and keep him Britain paid is really important for Life the economy family Etc. Otherwise be significant social problems of of which some are dead because there is still loneliness and aspects so we have to keep positive but you're right Nick. I've probably done about sixty webinars since the Panthers. Amex start first few weeks. It seemed like doing three a week which takes a lot of effort and the payroll professionals are probably kept late nights going getting sorted. There are been over 30 changes to the coronavirus job retention scheme and subtle changes some of them but that's men requirements to recalculate calculate then off data lights. It's been quite a challenge for the payroll profession and all pretty much done remotely from home. So there's an element of thinking what would happen at home working and I think generally home working is proved it can work. There are some difficulties with it. There are some challenges but actually the productivity levels we found with home working in St. Works is that actually things increased a little bit but I think equally if you got an adrenaline rush where you've got all this activity to do that you just get through it off. You work your way through it and wonder at the end how you did it. So I think will reflect back and said, do you remember that? Twenty Twenty-One the talent sometimes I think Nick is payroll is a quite poorer around trumpet. So there's a moment of sometimes great activity great efforts can sometimes go a bit unnoticed. So it's just making sure that the page on of the importance is retained. Otherwise, it could be a little bit of a you don't need you anymore. Now, it's all fixed a recent webinar. I delivered actually said that point I probably I probably lived it slightly crassly, but deliberately crassly. So in the sense that payroll people need to shout a bit more or what will happen is we raise the profile now we've had you know, Australian five ministers commend the work help festive done. Keep that that country's paid, but if we don't continue to speak up and the power industry remains quiet, then it's likely to revert back to where it was before and I'm hoping they'll be more people that find their voice log. You to Champion themselves as Champion the world the industry has done like you've obviously been doing in like I've been trying to do as well because there is an opportunity. I think now hopefully we're payable is more in people's Consciousness. If you're not working. Well, then we'll familiar with who their payor people are and the work that they've been doing and I'm really hopeful that going forward people will find their voice to keep that keep that driving forward while I'm wondering how many of our professionals were still awake 12:00 on Monday night during work and I suspect there's quite a few I could be on social media some of their actions may just after midnight people saying we'll have a missed the deadline. What do I do now? Luckily they've always got you one hand side when even at that time, but we've established that agree that there's a few of us that are quite nocturnal and you're definitely wanting long as we've established. I think there was a message I put out recently but just said who else is still awake and it was about quarter to one and I think you're one of the first people to respond that let me jump back into finding out more about you song. If you could invite three people to a dinner party, who would they be and why and they can be dead or alive? Oh that's difficult one. So three people to dinner party. Who and why am I tributes possibly to someone so he he or she passed away in May, but I actually I'd like to have normal green back again and have just to interact again with him not for any particular special reason other than I saw him as a good friend and a good friend the industry. Now if we're going to characters you could say or do instant Churchill wouldn't mind meeting him. Yeah. I might find he may sound something to me. I don't like is the only challenge it depends, but but I think it'd be great to have Winston Churchill and if I was to name someone else, let's sing Who that would be. I don't know Douglas Adams and that may seem a little bit of a strange Douglas Adams home. Yeah, the rights of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy only because I just find that sort of humor tremendous and Marvin the robot is someone we should not have loved that loved that. A lot of people there. You didn't lose me. You didn't lose me. So that's good. I enjoyed that very much last question for you back into their the depths of payroll questioning myself and what we're going to look forward to going forward if you didn't work in play well or should I say pay will all software development? What would you be doing? Well, I probably be working with young people wage always enjoys working with young people and developing them. I'm a qualified to youthwork going back some years ago, but the challenge I'd probably say is is enough money. Where can we see young people? Is it tough one size nail on that one, but saying that my all three of my children work in education these days. I'm not sure if I would had the qualifications to become a t e Yeah, because something education was different in the past and I did a-levels get my English level. It's kind of that type of background and how's the portion of doing my Master's later in life? Whereas these days University study is more common, but development of young people is always been important to me. So let's jump back and we talked a little bit about the major challenges legislatively that we say looking forward to for twenty Twenty-One. But what are some of the opportunities for the industry going forward? Okay, I think the industry needs a little bit of a shake-up and it's looking at how that's going to operate. So I'm hearing a lot of conversation around on paralon demands and it's something that we've played around with for some years. In fact in SD workspace solution is actually a real-time calculation basis. I think it's now dead. Roofing on to freedom of choice on individuals potentially choosing their real paydays dealing with different groups in in the past we've tended to have to deal with that by having different payrolls doing different things. There's an element of the technology these days is that really still necessary or can you actually build it? So that way you can react immediately when you merge companies do they really need to change pay days when you want frequency changes do they really need or do you put more choice now? I think there are a lot of baptisms round which kind of indicates their pay on demand, but they're really operating temporary loan or Advance type capability and there's elements of thinking actually let's move to a structure where the pie cycle can be what you choose the hmrc cycle can be whatever. Hm I see say it is and the business accounting cycle can be dead. Anything you like because it becomes much more transactional. So that's a little bit where my head goes. And then also this element of having things much more interactive. So people can do month for themselves. Now some of that will ring alarm bells for paraprofessionals cuz we like to check and verify Insurance. Correct. Make sure it doesn't mess off Cycles up and it's an element do we actually still need our Cycles or can we be driven by technology to work in different ways. So I think it's exciting times and we'll see what happens over the next few years based on what you've just told me that if you were to put a time frame on it, you know on the potential dissolution of the monthly pay cycle as we know it to be at the moment with pay on-demand Solutions coming into the market in whatever guise I might be with it be at loans or advances or whatever. It seems to be that that's something that from my side looks like it's going to happen at some point in the future the the monthly routine power cycle as we know it now is dead. Need to change and probably will become an on-demand process. But how long do you think it will take for that to be fully adopted into that sort of becomes the norm or indeed. Do you think it never will it may never wage but I'm trying to think new law implementation like holiday pay nasheman wage have been around for twenty years have already fully there on the application of those and employment and the answer is potentially no choice when will data source of freedoms come into play. I think there is a question Nick of whether people actually want those freedoms and I think what people may want is still a month life cycle that they want to choose when that monthly cycle is. Well, they really want to draw down money every day. Not sure if most people will because that's not how their bills are more wage. You're going to be taken. So I guess if if the mortgage company would take a little bit of money every day, then you may want to be paid every day. So I think it's more freeing up or giving the capability in Choice Dog. I think it's a little bit like Flex schemes flexible benefit schemes are there to allow us to make choices that fit ours, but I suspect that 8% of people that make a choice and therefore you make the choice. So just their choice. Will they change it next year? And I think actually a lot don't I've not heard anyone in the palace to give me that response and yet it makes total sense to me. I'll tell you what, I asked my own employees and this week, you know, would you like me to Advance, you know the payroll Cycles? So you actually receive your pay before Christmas if you got Christmas spending to do but it does mean you're going to have a long period until the end of the next pay cycle obviously end of January. It could be a five six week Gap, you know, what would you rather? I just maintain it to the minute we pay at the end of the month but not vast majority said they would rather it didn't change it happy. They don't want to go six weeks until the next cycle. They'd rather be paid as normal and very few if any actually came back and said they wanted the early and that surprised me I think in my mind, I just assumed everyone would say, yep. Saving money sooner actually, no one said yes, they they they've got you say they've got their direct debits sorted out. They don't want to put themselves in a position where they've spent anything too soon and it was a bit of a surprise to me if I am so I think the way you put that is it makes total sense another way that I've considered it before I think I've I'm always jump onto. Yes, that's the future. Yes. We need change and actually change can happen. But only if people want it and everyone always said we do like a habitual behaviors, we like normality and and reliability. So it's interesting where you put that yeah. I think we also like to be free or come think with free choice. So I think there's a moment if if we give them the freedom to choose we're happy. So what we choose to do something different is a different matter, but my last question before I opened the vault is this know obviously you work for one of the international leading payroll service providers that SD works with me. She obviously particularly payroll software development you very much at the coal face of payroll Innovation wage. You've talked a little bit about you know more automation coming into Power departments that we're going to see a lot more AI coming to our departments. What are the technical innovations? You're most excited about and maybe when we're not there. It may be a behind-the-scenes. You've looked at things like blockchain, whatever it might be one of the things that that you are privy to the perhaps us outside of your poems and your new associations may not be as pretty too but your web site about coming in while initially I think it's more about human education if I'm going to put it that way. I mean, you'll know that throughout my career if there's been an opportunity to do a study and even now he could say I'm not doing a doctorate or not doing anything formally academic but some are always studying changing information that comes through and I've signed up off of you courses in the past and I've done them so public speaking with Barack Obama and whatever else I think it's always good to keep your mind open to new Innovation Hub. And so for the next few years, I'm thinking the transformation of education is going to be key in payroll. So digitalisation of that type of concept of how I guess you could say, that's probably a strange area too straight. I think we've gone to a point of thinking everything should be systemized an automatic to the extent of actually the world is too complicated for that. We do still need experts educated paraprofessionals, but is there an easy means for them to obtain that information? So I think integration this the other key so things tend to be in isolated chunks. So now there's an element of thinking that's bring everything into one so that actually I can do any activity anywhere. So I've got my payslip I can go and order a passport. I can notify people change of address. There's an element of actually integrating payroll wage. Into the world of activity in interaction with government so that if you're actually doing one activity you're doing the mall and that's where I'd really like to go cuz at the moment it seems strange you tell you pilot Department you've changed address. They obviously tell hmrc who ignore it because it's not you as an individual and a thinking actually do we start looking back see the employee experience needs to be integrated into life. And so that it's much more joined-up and the technology these days is there to do it. So let's do it more but that fee on a journey of or holistic function. Anyway, everything seems to be more employee-centric now than it's ever been before. So I think you're definitely on to you know on Trend with the with that response. So I have sound like you're about to add an additional Point wage. I forgotten that perfect. Let me open the vault then I could ask you the same questions. We have this in every episode of the power podcast entering the Vault off. But I was listening I'd love if you can give some advice. So the first question is this one piece of guidance. You would give to someone working in payroll right. Now one piece of guidance walk away from something difficult. Give it a go because if you do you'll become an expert and be valued by your employer. Excellent. If you have the power of foresight and can change the entire wage all industry with one action of improvement. What would that action or Improvement be that's a difficult one one thing to change the Pearl industry. I'm not sure if I know a good enough answer that make I might have to think about that and come back to it. Okay. I'm going to I'm going to come back. I've been telling us we need to pay all governance and that stuck with me ever since and I know something with your your experience home will have something that's totally too many. Maybe I made it difficult by giving you just just one action, but let's go to this question and in hindsight, what's one thing you now know that you wish you would know and when you began your job. Career in payroll. I wish I'd known how exciting it could be initially because I kind of fell into it and had an aptitude for it. But my home ground is really i t but with an aptitude for the payroll aspects and complexity of law. I think Dominic US law reads like code and so if you can program know how to structure programs and if statements then law is exactly the same basis, so it doesn't do what you think. It should it does what the words say wage and programs are exactly the same with that really helped me at the front. I don't know. I think I've had a series of unfortunate accidents along the way that I brought great benefit and I don't regret any of that right? You just referenced my daughter's favorite books of the Series of Unfortunate Events. So I like that and as you said you've got I think any answer that tells us you never knew him. Exciting power could be should be up and quotation marks anyway, so well, yeah good site is payroll sexy koster's what a great way to finish and round off the podcast is pay all sexy. Of course, it is 6 and it's been an absolute pleasure Simon joining me stay on the panel podcast. If there are people listening to this they want to connect with you online. Obviously. I'm going to put links for those who want to connect directly in the show notes. Check those out to both Thursday Works. Credit UK and pay advice. U k which of course it's on a person's very own website, but there any other links you'd like to mention where people can reach out to you directly if people are interested in electronic exchange problems, and then I rean. Net mentioned that one which is fairly new, but if you want them to connect and you've got problems those organizations are great, and of course cipp great source along with all the others great great. Well, I'll make definitely make sure I have the links Irene. Net to the show notes as well and I'll add your LinkedIn profile if I met Simon too. So if it wants to reach out to read they can do so, please remember, of course my name Day, I'm CEO of JJ payroll recruitment as well. So if you do have a payroll related vacancy that you would like some specialist pay or equipment support with please do reach out to me directly. You can catch me at Nick at home of equipment, or give me a call or any of my team a call on 01727. 800-3775 just leads me to say thank you ever so much for listening to this table podcast about 20 20. I want to take this opportunity to wish you all a wonderful and prosperous twenty Twenty-One and I look forward to bring you all the next episode of the podcast real soon take care of yourselves and each other and of course a huge. Thank you to yourself off. And Parsons till next time thank you so much for tuning into the payroll podcast with Nick day of JGA recruitment. If you need help with a current payroll, they can see then please get in touch with Nick and his team all contact details can be found in the episode notes in the meantime to make sure you never miss a future episode, please. Subscribe to the show through any of your favorite podcast channels till next time.

Simon Simon Parsons Irene Ceridian BCS hmrc Nick University of Westminster RSD Works chartered Institute of parapro electronic exchange government chartered Institute of it payr reward Hall of Fame Cannon Street Station center File Office British payroll Foundation army SD Works Achievement Award Norman green
Representaton of Black Queer bodies w/ Jon Ward

Well Spoken Tokens

1:23:22 hr | 9 months ago

Representaton of Black Queer bodies w/ Jon Ward

"Everybody welcome to wells for take this job and I'm with Ester. We are the well-taken and we try to break down problematic areas of the heritage sex a bullet up to make it all inclusive and intersectional. While of anyway. Today I am. Very excited because we have the amazing. I'm fantastic Jonathan Ward with us today. And say, my name is Jonathan that. By John. Joan and I'm really excited to have who wants today and he's Dr. Jones. Like credit to one is electric American at King's College London and author of amazing publications such as Saving Reality Television illness reading ripples drag race at its construction of reality. And we're conduct liberation. Liberation is this interrogating but have been relationship with colonialism and. You can find the exists in episode I I just I just love the title of everything is testing. I love. You but you have. You know. There's a two of my favorite things. For The the rhythm of the will come deliberation is. Like when I was thinking about titles ask you my friends and colleagues like I don't get it like it was like on the is makes no sense as I say in this way. Yeah So I'm really excited to have. You would especially. Such as. Much nothing. About representation of quarterback buddies. In. Museums generally is very specific exhibition about which I can't recall as we happened. I know potentially could have done but then. Again. We need these things to be. More regular. Around mole. But before we get into that and would you tell us a little bit by yourself and your background anything you want to listen to? Yeah absolutely. So I'm to be half. Thank you. yes. Oh, I worked at King's. My background is Americans. Johnny Look at American culture. And I did my Amei in gender sexuality culture kind of thinking about popular coach. Ziggy how we? Engage with representations, ends of possessions of. Race Agenda and Sexuality Visit Mike McKee areas and most of my work is particularly thinking about the body. I think. I'm. Just saying about the lack of quaid like what he's alien. Heritage. Sector be. Thinking about how the body is used as as evidence as unsolved interior identity. The way that the body is sort of amd disciplines and just think he of how we can solve. Recognize, existing hierarchies power the Carolina around and issues. Why density? How. We can kind of resist hierarchies Basil Systems of power. I'm so that's the come like on the general wet. In, coming on the PUCK costs. Effects asked me to think about at black bodies in quick coach. And as just because of the kind of. It being at finally issue. Initially, was thinking about prides. And just one of the interesting things that I found in discussions around Hikes Osceola pride celebrations are now did so. Because a endemic and so know this. I think a lot of people look at everything kind of leaving online as a sense of loss and it's a that we taught me up and you know that weakness often thing about the kind of at least digital's vices as is being less than ams of important events and in terms of thinking about. So pride events and the issues one around them generally being very why. I'm a lot of prides involving the police as well because of being lodged optic events and say something that I found was surprising to to white people soaking. Was I was saying that one of the benefits of having digital pride events is that Anyone that's gonNA generally profiled object of niece suddenly has that absence the when not worry when way from his amy's new firming social spaces which have this air about being pray for being targeted being victims of violence in the ways that impasse impact events often has and so it's we're an interesting moment right where. A. Lot of kind of you know individuals companies events are definitely wanting to make it seem as they thinking about anti blackness but actually when you get down into the specifics of. Experiences of backfired when people have color that seems to be a lack of commission having all right whether that's an issue that being a lack of people in power amion khanates, and Cooper boardrooms or just kind of the silage ways that people having these conversations. Starting I was just GonNa say past experience that I'm. Trying to give some evidence of light lift experience. Some basis of what could be done to improve and utilize hierarchies expect up before. It's dismissed all misconstrued or. Maybe internal intense racism. They have maybe able me like louder ever. But for whatever reason it gets, it gets dismissed and then I also wonder why is it because of my skin color? Is it because of my sex? Is it because of my? Because of the hierarchy. Within the institution but within like life. and then what ends up happening is people leads US institutions, people, Camara's solutions because they're not being heard, and then the cycle continues where. Then, if they don't listen to begin with, they didn't have that empathy to to reflectiveness and then. Joe You are going to continuously lack those people of color. He will willing to give you emotional labor. Expertise for free the time. And is is such dame yeah Oh. Yeah. The joy of wet. Roads and like the real talks that they structures one of these. I was looking for and hopefully we'll still get. Someone, who's on a hurricane fold who was festive color it wasn't just bad. It's not an all buckled and I thank you that. So specifically, fund and that is knocks on massive pool of people. So someone who is interested but has too much going on that. Is. The staying. If he wants me the black woman like the only doing this stuff they all doing all of this work in won't will spice. book. So is a struggle on them. So you know. If anyone listening based. On the heritage Joel Propose. Retallack may because I really WanNa talk about high us? Because, yeah. Funding those voices in the spices it is like if they. I, mean needle in the Haystack. Is like needle in the in high-fat. If anyone this thing right now, he's feeling guilty about this free labor we do have a tip jaw link isn't the Send us like a five hundred dollars. We had coffee than we to Jonathan. He can get compete because he's also getting this refraining and say all I guess because they're exceptional human beings. Sex. Tebessa. Yeah I. Mean it's interesting as well. They thinking about new these dynamics as Labor right and I think you're right Charley right in you know we're often expected to kind of performance of the free right. Now About it, but and that's all I'll pay read yeah yeah. It's it's I mean let's say. I kings in September and Unsurprisingly, it's very white institutions. I'm I'm I'm prominent English the department has a about sixty full members of songs on I'm the black member stops. At the teaching office. and. That's the kind of interesting thing where we while I definitely wants. My voice head I also want the endless meetings that. The job. Includes way like if you want your voice to be, it's always extra wet. So it's kind of attention that right that's. You know we're expected to do all of that Lake on top of. All of our other GT's at what all This in terms of our regular lives but also there is thrust not play though is that won't get done if we know. Absolutely. Yeah Get. Stressful. So. You've. 'cause obviously, you know the whole culture reference a economic. Hunger every time says black Baristas likely a wiggle. Funny. Yeah Yeah. As a thing why I used to play book who play me in my life? And like when I was younger, basically two people I could use from. So he's definitely be because now I can I get someone who? Like me the. Miami Harris was unscreened. Brielle Canyon in the US remake. Yes. Really what during? Christian I'm Christian but when the US reminds American. Thanks but yeah, it was always a struggle to find you know these stories again on the woman. So again, Michael is. Days but then if onset am okay who like the US and he's GonNa, plan my lovely lovely guy cousin it looks like. You know who can I like this? Is really important to say so this rain. They vices being able to cry. While also enjoying things in life the accessible from enjoy like I stop track of the kid. but you know about first interracial kids it's like furor a the Turk would case Agoura about like. God Damn Youthful. And he's kissing green things things that tend to. Be She why should I if like? The L. Anyway. You know it's like why is it? But if you say lock people onscreen than the House debate. -hension. About Brealey way whereas you know you can just casually grab someone you know sent me growing up in the eighties and not a united people you know -hension it but says about so that will have to be storyline around it or it's like the blackout being condemned appreciate h will be with white guy and he learning a lesson about you know hope outcry been. Opposed like I WANNA. Be a teaching moment I just want to. Joy A. Almost, very well dead. There are such like in the same way there's lucky. As on TV there such a lack of like South Asian buddies on TV now, I have been compared. Exclusively to black people when it comes to and I'm like that like, thank you because they will. Stunning. is completely inaccurate and white. Great. And it's actually from in work I have been. Confused. Full like. The other people like this rivers the other people have covered what I'm whoa completely different races. and. We look in completely like there's no similarity like have led to what we were like. We're not in a uniform nothing like that. And he's is in sanitation that someone could be that like I called the lead the. It'd be my time that happens I cannot believe it's going to be unobservant. The ridiculous nature of like like. Being. Confused with just. Such a wide variety of people of color that you're not even like the same show groups. There's nothing like that sent I mean, of course like that's ridiculous thing like a I don't see color that I'm sure that you'll see retired here why he was. Like you do but like you see it Landed outrace. Not White. Say someone say to me identity color. Then you didn't see my struggle. And then they say because it's like you're saying he doesn't see my code. Well then you're saying struggle and you see all the fucking amazing things. South Asian. Coach has brought to this country because let's face it. The food is not great. If they stolen ownership of other people be eating. We'll tell you is. So. Is Spanish just WANNA put that out there. It's astonishing. Not Bracing everyone in Spanish just so you're aware. Tenets and You'll say slowed before as well as like people a used to going into other countries stay legal Beco y you so it. Sorry I just went on for about fishing trips carry on. I mean, not you kind of going back to. The. Saying about the that difficulty finding somebody that looks like right over that represents the. People of Color in a kind of already has acknowledged at struggled as. The other right we never the office both I mean, I think for me in kind of as. A mckesson tickly. Say It's getting better, but still it's not easy now in generally unlike. I either to find somebody very croutons to either looks like me over Hayes like me, right. Its. Self reflecting you don't need you want to fund something about. Yourself Mr. You say. So I am I. Said like if I had quest basis is like very like people like me will have the same references me old. Yeah and you just feel you just be they know you but I went to like a quit brown like me up thing. Or Work and I. I just told the story. which signatures like about a micro aggression happened? is, someone that was trying to and they just look to me win. White. People. And that was it. I didn't need to explain exactly why it was saying me I didn't need to explain like. I didn't get told why should do about how I should coke with the it was just like solidarity in the struggle and let's just sit down by drag race. Like. It was a very nice mixture of like. Yeah the solidarity and that's fun. It's like this isn't a whole identity. We have other things that we want do into foul and I think of the time. People Forget. That is well like if the discussing history especially for people call them talk about things I really negative or the way that white people have influenced our lives especially when you know when it comes to. The empire in like imperialism and colonial style. Whereas it's like well, why can't we celebrate us? Separately, so we get confused with each other. Like separate and enjoy the things that have been created unlike. Made unlike the beauty I, guess what I'm trying to say within not just bodies within the culture and we didn't stuff like that wrong than having it from dot like this called unto us. I mean I think yeah, I think that's really I mean two points that yet by the joy as Like kind of catching somebody's I another personal color and you can just do that Iro. You'd like there is so much likely in moment exactly and. I'm not find the same kind of insult straits basis with a quiff fix. The we though so much going to communication in those tiny tiny Raymond's right because because we know we know exactly what we thinking. We commenced highway kind of how surviving in these face. but to the other point about this. You know that sensitive when discussing around little blackness. So We'd was slavery right like that the Oh. And With a colleague rare in the prices of curriculum and an you one of the things I was released. and. Eager to do that. You know especially when he's reading mess that the created Sovan the. Mass Movement gaining traction off the Jess while the on my website, if anybody does want to hit. Get involved in that. People. Wrong stuff. Like kind of. Having that sold historical context is really great. You know I was like where west of literature film appellate about joy and Black And Pleasure and I am and so yes, I just think that there is the story. So singular narrative that if we're going to let people of Color, we've got to talk about the struggles, right? Just you're saying like like, let's talk about colonialism not just in terms of. The At, kind of extreme versions of threatening violence. But also about the food, we right by the daily experience of the results of imperialist seeking tremendous behavior and that's something that we don't try. Otherwise we have to think it would just be say isn't turnips. I was island recently about the Tradition of. enslaved people doing the hair on Sunday so that they would get abreast. And basically putting into the. Protective Silos. By us like often now and I let me about how parents of people who are not maybe my is now used to do that every Sunday as well and like how before they were school and how about carry. Don Nelson. That's so interesting and it started from A. Older the story starts from rockabilly negative point. Head can bring people together lake doing each other's hand. And having the his relationships entrusting someone enough to do that and sing with them and having a Chop Lake two hours three hours rally. Yet universal is universal but it's also Special blackout. I think it's something really beautiful and race relations are kind of in the central Iberian in Manchester they had. To bring people into the all kinds, get them interested rather than like reaching out and trying to be with the academic they had a have workshop. Yes they had people come in and say people from the community, which is predominantly people of color and people came in and they have had workshop and they let let like good stuff about heck, Aaron? How to do stuff on this was an idea that was. Lifted from an old an older charity e when was developed by immigrants who came to you. Join Rush. Silent someone in very isolated because they didn't have any friends because they just come in with husbands and. Wives and children just raising the children say they started he's like, Hey, workshops. So they could go with their kids and they go I mean other people unlike really bond. And then attended people bringing food and people having and they built a crash so the kids could play and. It just started off. That one thing is like let's go after each other. By giving each others. And I just think that's just one example is as some joyful story that you could tell from. What? Could have been a story about enslavement, but it's One the thing is so Natarajan said I. Thinking about events with them heritage as for example, is that you knew this notion of wed we look. To find community achieve like that needs to be kind of. More diverse thinking about what looks like right because The backing gets Hashtag. That's Baba's right like that's why you'll find it. Like I mean obviously. Yes. It's you'll find in place of education as A. Place of worship there also specific coach was vices that you know like you will find new and I. Think he might so of. Mrs Color Immigrant Communities. I mean anything around food right because as she to find food, your culture that you need to build astles space for it because you're not gonNA. Find it necessarily end. Right so against the. Many will ended imagination around what? Misdemeanor. I think. Is really funny because when all right all the food South Asia would be M in ethnic world through I O. In the regular I'll. Now, other stuff is in the low food I'll and wave like been elevated into just being no everybody likes to eat now. With again just she likes him seeing that solves that changed because it also like it seems like that's part because you know who will rise the kind of the new immigrants has changed right? So. A lot of eastern. European Speed is in that. Make our writing. Research enough numbers of it now because we will. Every week we're going to get in the specific. This'll be. What cooking with it because This would be the test name on Parents House which the Sunday people. but we have I still have my specific like I live in I live in the area I live in 'cause of the ethnic jokes like I live in the area in because I can go to the but around the corner and guess specific seeing that I will need for. The thing I would've cooked up my mom used to make I go to the unit to get stuff yet. Exactly. I think. In an area so By food. Think to my heritage. Watch the lie I'm because I wanted to live in an area which has. Mobile people than just making. Is. Is Album before. Yeah we I mean not like I think. I'm not surprising thinking about. How do we conceptualize? Hey it. It's not just like the domestic space we live in, but his said is the communities around us. It's the kind of the immune he's are available like. Can I buy like a specific kind of ingredient I need this curry, right? So. This kind of I'm John Rice right only. So specifics that. That's part of what makes me feel like I'm hired Edison not for ridiculous money 'cause I know how much? I'm sorry white people. When you're like this is why people prices. Like. Just go to university not realizing that Rice Queen Class. because. With everything bail. So, we basically just had a at. Repairman. Interesting, but I had to. Keep going back and and obviously multiple reasons but places on Phil for having about much runs. In my house you can get like a ten K. D., bag of rice lower. Quick Mazen. I'm not make sense if you basically have rice abry of the meal. Back to the ethnic island, the market. So one thing that I found. When I states. So my colleagues American and and we in just a big chain agro she saw in the states and so they had the kind of the wealthy slash ethnic I'll. But they answer I I was particularly not because they really have duty bags and sight and sound like they have a section of like amid specifically in the eye of Rajesh and then everything else is others like some really interesting, right? Retain Mitch. Its well-suited because we're in the US is still doesn't want they. They wanted to China as the same as of the Waldo or ethnic foods like this is really up. The Nice legally an easy and you will Jim Museum, you've got history, and then you've got everything anything else under one of the. Quick break now, but we will be back with John Dr. John would. Fees is I'm very excited to keep trying to. Me See. I I everyone just wanted to say thank you for listening and give you an update on what will go on Welfare on intersectional. So. First off, the intellectual Guam has been moved to August twenty twenty one tickets are available on event bright and the link will be in the show description. I will create three training sessions so far this available on Intersectional Dot Org we have. Online trading for unconscious at implicit bias training full gun professionals. We have diversity inclusion insects, shining gum professionals, analysts, Chun's administrative confessionals coming out in August twenty twenty we'll also have anti-racist and training. which will be available on the website intersectional Dot Org. We also created a tip job. We WanNa make this podcast as elegant and beautiful and well rounded as possible. So. You have any sped coinage please send away. We can make sure to make this the best that we possibly can. Thank you so much all links will be available in description enjoy the resolution. And welcome back we had with the. Would and we were. Talking about station of buddies and very high cultural things jokes about the ethics. aloes up of the supermarkets may have similarly homogenized oils. Yes. Very likely. You live in a Super Brown area in which case. will be everywhere. Pre Roll. But I need to bring it back to Your Work Joan. and I just wanted to ask you just generally how what we were talking about with your idea of like the joyfulness of. The culture the colored. Dot. How Affects your work in the way that you write research is? Why you decided to. Do is discussable mentioned before. Specifically, about two of the biggest. Phenomenons in. The Pasta yet is and the have scented black people off as. I know. There's arguments about whitewashing repos, tapes, and stuff like that. Specific which was Not only. Cost. It was. Got Crew and buck staffing and. They saw quite. Law about how they're going to set things up and stuff up. So Yeah, you could talk a lot about the. Yeah I mean I think so Said kind of gives you a bit I'm also contacted by the I guess the trajectory of 'em I'm not condemning wax. My ambitious ideas from case. IS A. Bait schools. I'm what is it containing? It thrived black nobody in American popular culture, and so that was very much interested in at depictions of blackness and not by people bet I'm kind of mainstream, white cultural representations of blackness and actually the reason why schools. What is it was was because that was the name of them. As A. Performer. who was exhibited by p.t Barnum, he's famous for assign one of the. BSO William Henry Johnson was exhibited as what is it the missing link I'm. East gunman. Yes yes. Yes or people Medrad. Of A. Specific behaviors. That go film that he? Prayed. And yet. Again we whitewash these histories, right so I mean also pt and was I mean not just in terms of race, but just generally was like you know these are. People for money everybody probably. Yeah. But I mean particularly like. Business Practices will awful. The way he abused was also. Yeah I mean, just you know was re I mean you know he didn't. He wasn't responsible to the of. Adam originating definitely did a lot of wax to kind of penetrate this notion of. But. Generally non whiteness as being a kind of the deal being non human. And snap at exits disabled bodies as well as a really kind of solidifying what what was kind of. Enjoyed by the Circus is as the human wall. So surrounded by so basically if you were Non Normative in some ways if you're a person of color if you're a disabled and nephew kind of freakish within missile sex terminology than you kind of you an exhibit to enjoy right those nationals I'm Asian sales I'm unanimity that. So, yes, we. Take, nece yes, completely. And NASA thesis was so renew thinking about. What is the narrative of what are the narratives attached to Ms within a American coach them abroad even in Western culture and so I mean as. As, you can imagine from me beginning with Anchor Story of William Henry Johnson. But thesis was not sticky enjoyable to write because it is looking a lot of average negative. Portrayals say for example, one of the at text I using it was the best nation, which is the first feature film in. American which basically? I'm splitting. Basically presents the m the construction of the US US. Will as being complete to do plan. So. Yes. There is looking at of text like that and so for me just one as a block nothing. But Oh said is as as a research i. was like, okay. Now, I understand this a bit more especially because I found three, my apiece TV sets the. It was working out some issues with added basically trying to figure out why coach is afraid of Batmans and because. Know something that I. Encounter in my life, but needed to. Understand that a bit mostly and said, Confirm Matt. Now looking more and representations blackness off have multiples of agency Oh empowerment within themselves I'm you'll description of black hunter is a great exhausted at my like Ryan Lynn, wholesale creative team behind him the film you know it's it's so sentence in the kind of elevations and. Celebration of blackness. And Thinking about. The use of course I'm the joy and the use of excellence as as useful in themselves. But also they out, they offer resistance I am this guy's back to the discussion about Harry even right Sir North Thinking about the At black speech will. Even in the late nineteen sixties and. Seventies team us and that was owed to do with like if you say we are ugly and we will show you how you. Can Be Right and I think Matt. Communities Haredi have. Ain't. reveling not sensitive We want say initiate by foreign buddies especially because of Albert taken figuratively, Mitchell ways and and really. So celebrate the specificities of blackness and all being passive kudrow banquets from my Different iterations. So that's when my wife is gathering more generally, and I will say as it can caveats to break the vice autos, they are sick by critical. report drag race on Lap Panther I. Just because we love something doesn't mean we don't want it to improve. Yeah. Absolutely I notice I, mean like I am kind of just by nature cry contrary person. I do I generally like I like having something that I love but also. But it's not quite perfect that something that next did you see the film the lock money? San Francisco because he has that phrase where there were these people on the trolley criticizing some from Cisco and he's like, do you love it because if you don't love it, you don't get the right to criticize that. Something you feel. So passionately about that, you are then looping back round to go. Yes it's this. Amazing. Amazing but these rituals. Burials. Yeah I can see that I mean I definitely think that like I still resent right to critique things I hate. Funny. Did it like yeah? It's like. Watching something I. Know I'm probably GONNA. To just you know and sometimes just checking but my. Barometer is what right whereas a? Priceless thing sometimes. Question for you. You said that when you were doing your. Research you felt like it was A. You will walking through some stuff. I personally when I'm writing things will dip making training sessions and stuff like I am. I find incredibly exhausting because of those same reasons because I find myself. having Theresa things I know to be trailing but the. Day the most of. It is and then. Put that down on paper in continuously owner, cover all kind of deal with it. It's really exhausting how to you and this could be good for any any of listeners out there who? both guys similar things like how do you make sure that you don't but out when you're doing that kid if it was someone who wasn't. Emotionally. Invested in the same way that say we are because we are. Both people of color with his career like when we learn about these things in history, it's very visceral I find it very miserable of very. Almost. Like a legitimately I knew this also researching it is very difficult. Actually seeking out these negative opinions about yourself. Israelis physically. Really strange thing to do. When the all over the world and we don't really have to seek them out so. Yeah I'm. Kind of When you're doing your inside. So. I'm not sure I have the answer to how to avoid back. And I mean I think something that I found is really helpful both in terms of not kind of reaching a point of exhaustion van out with the material but also in terms of just supplementing. Sinking as to whatever primarily as somebody that so teaches on researches is to think about going to the material I would presents in a seminar for example, how a particular suit my a seminar incident I don't have any interested. When it's related to to consult I'm lacking on I, find that it's good to to think about how should talk about that stuff in very different contexts. So for me I mean with. Mice OPEC research now as I said a lot of that. So working through passenger. was really just. Kind of figuring out some of the obstacles threatened say one of the questions that I kind of I think not even consciously had struggled with was. I didn't understand the kind of. The ways that blackness can be. Exotic sized and seen in this very source. Narrow way that's kind of feels like get positive but also can be. So I'm kind of repudiated. Right. So how is it that? Somebody can. Kind of a crude example, but somebody can complement you in very uncomfortable ways on like the United States particularly turn of your skin, all the texture of your hair. which which feels the positive because it feels like it's a component but. Like. There's always there's. A difference in you you like that starts the problem. With they say that to someone if that race kind of what you need to. Is it like God Looks Poodle Is it. You know I feel like you know you'll doing today as Mary. Yes. I never really. Yeah. Look. A couple of friends I do. I steal in Karen handkerchiefs. When I see them. Own Zemo, like invest in just be like you'll skit looks incredible. Hotly because I know they've been working on it and partly because it does incredible credible. But if it's a stranger, just being I've had that like. All the complete says I they. You'll skin is really nice old. You would be prayer if you'd light skin. Is Very very confusing messages. Yes sir. So so I mean, I think incomplete said you know that that sensitive? You know you freeze what's happening here. Right. Let me let me unpack this moment at. Obviously, we always have the luxury of. I'm. Sick I think questions and you know. Quite so simplistic questions. I. Think by had was that why? When we see blackness in most places to be not than seed blackness as less reviled less diminish. Just think for myself, answering questions and gave me a sensitive I think just confidence and I can't understand this a bit mall. So that enabled me I think to Ben in the marshmallow casual conversations whether with friends of color all way in mixed company. Then I kind of felt more secure in having nice conversations in a much more kind of casual also collect way. So says it to. Think about approaching whatever is the find exhausting just how what a different ways into it right. So can you talk about in very different contexts and I've? To me as somebody who teaches I've found that that's useful right. So think about what is I'm sitting Elaine researching on very much had how can I bring my into the caution and have a conversation about that because that condition we very different civilizational have with of color to them. Mike the Compensation in the way at complete random roommate. So. I think. Yeah. Just how how can I purchase in different contexts battles can Can offset that that sense of exhaustion i. Yeah. Always wants that so works two million. That sounds great I always. Try. And inject a bit of like. Joyfulness from what whatever? I'm like researching. And just. Going to go and like like you were saying before like breathe read this by like amazing festive color like wash. This always makes me happy the Affleck. Representation in tunes. Hot teams like exceptional acquire representation of the moment because they have less restriction than like films and stuff. which is like. Incredible going to be my. Coat of the week. Actually I'M GONNA get. Almost one Bakley. I mean down. Yeah. Because, obviously you touched on rock race Have we talked about? We have. We. Are Not have. In a previous exit. Yeah. But. Yeah. I think again, talking about the WHO's telling these stories and how it just elevates that conversation. Law By has boot. 'cause yeah. Like only now are we still indicate and actually like if I'm thinking about. I didn't know. That but yeah, I Hamilton. And that is another example where it's just like this global phenomenon and it by this story Tolson selective of someone in immigrant that really kind of turned on its head and it's you know it has its problems in stories. Well, look. You know I was berry waiver. There ought to white people in the entire cast and you know one of those people if King George and takes this out of it by this is great thing. But I mean, it's it's interesting. Why Not United States? In one of the pushbacks I think sometimes by. Could Marginalized Free Ages is you know this this narrative that sees that will nothing is ever good enough right because you know when we generally like we have, we have a quiz show or the the black show comes out. Right. So whatever that might be it whichever enrich. Than it's that there's always basic precise thing and I think kind of the issue there is not with tickets out is that why is only about one black shirt? Right? One Trans show one fish. So I think again, it's it's a larger. Of Systemic issued when thinking about. So representation in who is in WHO's in the room to green these projects who is kind of? A running shows balconies. Particular Souls ammos lines are oppressed communities. His I think have Black Panther was amazing but also it shouldn't it shouldn't have been. That particular success the experience shouldn't be so amazing because actually we should see that mole rank. That I mean again like comfort with incredibly successful well designed to decide but you know that Samson like it just did so well by is still the singular. I think not say and that's it and that's done. So the next block lead getting probably GONNA be on I to identify what's happening laid by another they will always struggles with so that gang of around and then with the production of there are plenty of black superheroes You know happy about Superhero Movies do we get? Yeah. We get. Really, want the opportunity to make shit films like how. In your people of Color to not have to have the highest possible standards. UNFOR- women in films I needed to not have to live up to this ridiculous expectations that nobody can reach. They still want a good storm film. Installment mazing. I. Of course have. So yeah. Why isn't there an amazing storm Film on the horizon? He's. He doesn't look good films content like I was saying before the break lake how like buttons been made a million times I the. Supervisor. I has been made in times like an applauding prejudice Silva. How many? Of 'em of. Matter. But one put that money into something that is like new interesting new interesting. Yeah. Like the amount of like kickback they had when Denise Biden was A mixed. Has Mukalla who was black and Tina. I think. Yeah yeah, but he Like the the amount of pushback was was crazy. Obama. By by Sin People don't on the you can have. A milk. Different incarnations. So why is it this long dish concept that a fictional character could be? Go. Favorites lakes. Yeah. Berry ethos behind a lot of creative why I'm black is the actually co allowed them to express otherness. These amazing could have ways of storytelling that's why people. Listen initially made his Jewish comic book writer is. Wanted a symbol of like anti Nazis. Basically. I'm not fly Hughes credit issues created like from not fearing the anger and something people enjoy. I'm like bringing it back to like the heritage sector everything that we've been talking about in times of representations popcorn to representation. He's like frigging TESCO's where you've got and go the shop in America we've at and then Aga that is. Exactly how I? Like, mostly see The heritage sector being the moment unless it's a specific. Archive all. Spaced that's related to people of call our people like unless it's like segregated like the. Than it is generally just British other. Is really interesting because recently was asked to resubscribe the newsletter and they did this fun thing about responding to it and one of the questions was. If, you could go back to one of the places and I think it was the list of might be twenty events in his speech, which six would you pick? Specifically as a person of color I e, the wouldn't have been welcomed wouldn't have been present at. I think nineteen, the twenty of them at it was so interesting, this was a host. Of My Zabel's marketing department should have been an of expressed that they're think about it and it's of I. You know it's an organization actually does representation quite well, but then literally not considering the actually either women or women of color like all of these bases would either been i. it was just fascinating and it's like you hot some stuff that was contemporary and that's why couldn't you include Deborah the might have been. Eight was rayvey ready. Fix It back to what? You is saying about when creating producing films, media content, you need people who in the. Decision Making seats decision making a who have lived experience and knowledge of that to like. Give. Advice going back to the very beginning of what were you saying about like your job? And my job s job in workplaces is not to be an advocate. So marginalized groups know role. Role is to day today job. Due to like a patron for and our knowledge of feeling marginalized. Need to improve our. Respective areas of. Of the be again. It to be better for people after only are still I want to create not like little bit of change we will. I believe want museums, galleries, and your university should do is is Give the people who are doing the work more money during the what. If they find someone and they see and they respect they have been, they have lived experience and they have the knowledge why not create space for them. An will create a job in which that is the job is to like consult on stuff is to give advice on things that other people in the institution might not know about, and then in that case you are getting paid for your knowledge you hang respected for your knowledge annual voice is actually being high because I think a lot of the time. You've probably experienced. Knows people of color quadruplets a disabled people anyone he's. in any way marginalized in all sectors. Will say and it will be completely just missed for. As much. You get people who yet point do nothing about it. So. You just I mean I. I feel like it's a fundamental rethinking about how we? Is spaces events in education right like. You know. For example, women's thinking about you know. So lived experiences as much as I am in. Make. Only, efforts I can to kind of think about how I'm kind of women walk through the wild. That's not my direct experience right. So so it's it's at the very least intellectual exercise for needs to have to think what, how, how might walking through this space feel if women whereas in A. M As a quick. I don't have to do any of that like I know that soft to that. I think again, that's why it's really important that we have. This CNA greater diversity. And not just in time to take mystic by the Achy like having an elevation of our voices because you know it's like I used to do this kind. Of A. Main Trek to my students because we will be talking about Amin disability in this one particular tax and it was a seminar room that was down asshole steps. UNTARRED say some mid companies like how many steps did you walk down to get into the seminar and generally none of the scenes would now because they were a answer, they haven't noticed and so and once it's pointing them all. Yeah. Remember now. But again, it has to be pointed out to you and that's not that the students were being kind of unthinking to teach in any of. Negative way. But literally, if it's not a barrier to you, you don't have to think about and that's why we need disconnect to see I think but also. Main trick unlike. mean. Because then obviously made them very subconscious. Basically. Your. Empathy levels. It's good. But also in terms of thinking about having. People again being paid for their labor right I mean. Again thinking about kind of. Being. New employee at King's new I. had to do so many things that a about like. My workspace and how to access to building that will health and safety. So that is somebody hates to think how people are behaving accessing a building and how they working. Why can't we have that being more expensive nation because mental health right US Co.. You'll stand in talk shows. How we put your well-paying, have we support each other being must this is the average you might need for a little bit extra for this is what we know will come up because actually it comes up very often in both of Asian people are raising it. Yeah I'm absolutely right. So you know it. Kind of day one of being their employees if there's fire than this is what you guys like. If somebody says. Something that's GonNa Racist Misogynist on him. Afraid Back in a meeting or in a seminal. Why I go then right like against just needs to be kind more expensive sinking about how how how we live how. Because again ends up being that knows that you'll be supported in that as well and I know it's not that big on but it's that thing of saying you know. If you had some things, please feel free to write it with me because we will make sure that it felt with. And Stan in doing. So the retention rate of marginalized groups in your in your institutional belting will increase because it won't be a matter of thought not happening microaggressions angle not kroger since happening and nothing being nowhere to go no safe-space talk about it. old deal with it, and then people end up leaving and then you're back to square one having. No underrepresented groups in your building to assist. In any way to to get the word out that will to. To help ready. Hopefully in a way as. And when they do get money pay respect what the doing. As the Dow at least on the surface in a lot of attempts by institutions. In terms of recruitment but again, I think that needs to be I'm expanded because it's about recruitment and retention because it's not just let's get more people of color in the jewel also like how will we keep them because what is their experience on a hair right? Actually if we recruiting they certainly all seem to complain that they used in very tokenistic ways to do additional labor not for Rutland. On all of your marketing material because you've got the me. Has has has your specifically. Awesome. On that profile. All you still on the website of an organization, you leftover two years ago. Examples. Happen. Plays into during black history month because they said, it wasn't that target audience. I was GONNA say GonNa. Talking. About pop culture references on my whites and just generally asking. Jones got editing too much. Break and then we'll be. I. Just wanted to say, thanks for listening and give you an update on what we've got going on over. Hurt well-spoken Titans on insects. Club. So first off the intellectual Glam Conference has been moved to twenty twenty. One tickets are available on event bright and the link will be in the show description. I will create three training sessions so far this available on intersex Graham Dot Org we have. Online training full unconscious at implicit bias training, full gun professionals. We have diversity inclusion insects, trading gum professionals, analysts Chun's is trending coming out in August we twenty twenty. We'll have anti-racism training at which will be available on the website intersectional Dot. We also create a tip job. We WanNa make this podcast as elegant and beautiful at and well rounded as possible. So. You have any sped coinage please send away are we can make sure to make this the best that we possibly can. Thank you so much links will be available in the description enjoy the rest of the. House and we are back with Dr. Jon Ward we were. Very interesting quotes. Day. But I think now we're gonNA to coach references. Right. Yes John Do you want to kick it off you style all you want a little punch think about it and we. as well. So in terms of pop culture references, I've just Finished watching I may destroy you by mechanical on. The I. It's amazing. But aside from really enjoying it. So I'm not going to get any sport, but it's Particularly, thinking, Ams through. Most complex nuanced discussion about consents. Around her sexual assault and sexual behavior is generally. The most of it is kind of Amazon meals biographical as well because Katie called creates time experienced. Something specific Thanks to the Shire. I'm but in terms of thinking about black bodies and coach at all, what he's, there's a character kwami I'm and. I mean. The representation of him I think is certainly the rest of the is it's incredibly complex and it's an again going back. Somebody asked him saying earlier that? Feels refreshing and unsurprising. When you look at the creative team behind it, it is very kind of black centric creative team. And Yeah just one of the things that. When we're talking about the lack of kind of representation that we see in coaching people of color equipped people am in I. Think kind of as well as that living a that also often as a sense that there's a very singular version of blackness, there was a singular version of Quintas that we are the embassy and so. For myself as a black man a with the character Cormet, you see this. Is. Intersection of various facets of his identity I. Think it's quite unusual in. So cultural expectation and also have. It so engages with this narrative of particular blackmail buddies and being seen as edith solves I'm threatening all. So. Never, being so vulnerable in situations and I think it just has a really slow and nice kind of nuanced say on that thing that's minded pop culture and recommendation I. think that's the second time that let's mentioned mysterious. Of I'm just compro- An high specialty shows are. Recovering recovering they do mean so much. Then mean someone from areas You know that shows not been out very long. Baynes something is a cultural touch them for so many people I think is a massive Is such a great creator. Almost two hundred different drafts of the show. Before, it was actually made. So the amount of effort that went into ensuring that everyone was represented fully unwell. Is. Very evident. So it's Kinda. Just, a way in which other people could. Factor in potentially walking got way all making. Let you say making sure that they have an in sectional and representative. Writing, group crew people who are. Basically, back to link into it, give that experiences. Yeah absolutely I think there's low again, I might have mentioned Amazon. Mechanical. I'm it also? If you. Any of this backstory around I'm the of. Issues that she faced in getting. Commissions Elsa. I think it real insight into the dynamics of power s we often go unseen. Basically I'm she tried to sow the sites Netflix's to of her million hounds for it but refused to give any I'm any kind of. Control like. Any sheriff's the Yes. Yeah. The Rights Of Eight yes. Basis you have no creation and she said Ni- and she was I fly her agents suggesting she take the deal. Inquiry and again I think it takes somebody that is you know somebody like coal I think she's a real game changer because nobody. It's a bright thing but actually she's got the Hill. She's got the cultural kind of climate to be able to do that I think the fact that ages didn't respect correct expect her to wield that she had gone through Allen says as much as well. These are the people who she is paid your and then not. Of the irony is like. It benefits damage. She gets a better deal because they get percentage and yes I the lack of belief in hatch is so strong. At the belief in the industry that says, this is how it is. We only pay this amount will only because your block voice and even though we would probably give away adults the one who's Going to do that with you I'm we'll be able to get away with that. Actually. But I think as well. One of the things I find his right about coal is also you know in various Context in, we've been telling lies this notion that in like. It's unprofessional or its. Roots to talk about things in transparent way by so we don't go out how much money you make right I'm not suicide British. Thing and not she who is facing when we to our ages right It's always saving the people in our when Archie when when people talk about how much did you get paid for this? How much are they offering is that it allows the muckrakers fantasies. Great fit. With about networks. Keep any luck and if he has like. content up stuff and obviously an all or what places they have like they some out to this amount. Having like excellent networks like we have a bad network and easy. Become, become a few people. Bring them up as you show what did you get paid for? Happily tell you. And then encouraging to even also move. I'm just like you listen journey. especially. As a woman and as of Coletta I feel like I need some really do need someone to to this take me by the scarf no. Stop doing this for free. said, it wouldn't media white guy did they put themselves out the top? Yeah exactly. Oh, Midway Blah Blah Blah. Blah. Blah. Backseat the reason that way they go. You know what I'll ask the most important. You know see what happens after that whereas me bracknell way it's like You experience against the jump qualified flora. Co- cold if you had an automatic artistic integrity to just be like I need to control this narrative. I feel like maybe that's where it came from his I if I don't controls narrative and they'll do a terrible. Jakob. So. I. Think he's. Just like just take confidence that you know I new I think we need to kind of you know. What more in terms of believing in the value of ourselves because they had to say night's a big network agency and like so now she has no reputation which immobile Hollywood's narratives. She's she's in the wilderness right. Our actually she showed that she has. Herself she can navigator and not give away about slice of up high. Why does she need but you know I think again, just thinking about like actually like I am wes this and mole Kind of advocate for ourselves because. When we kind of critique though systems I think we've then seen National Teddy were they designed for like there's something that I hit people say is you know Diagnostics get in terms of salary That's really problematic viewpoints in times of Louis GonNA coach encouraged to ask Ole demands. It certainly, not women. Of Whereas again. Saying. It's mediocre white guys like I'm worth all of this even though I feel none of the essential criterion. Alabama jobs were do long they send your criteria and still say around. Probably would like me it's like what? Need to speak to you. But yeah the except this. Is. In. The. Business is spaced. Whenever. Someone. Disregards. Something, that because when it comes to line life experience, I know I have like I. Know I know what about big a problem? Like in guns to my life experience and I know I know about select museums and heritage on in in relation to under upsetting groups of my research and I always trying to minded about I've never. I've never thinking I. Know Everything I'm trying to implicate the backside had. In time. So when people tell me shut me down, dismiss me that sense that I get very, very angry. And that was the whole reason why it's sexual dump started because I kept being told that I was talking about and I kept thinking Oh, you need these trainings. I should like unique understand where other people referral I'll just make them and see what happens. Business and now it's business I. WE'VE got a conference in next August twenty, twenty, one I'm with my soul tickets like that. Just because one half as you there is no space to this doesn't mean other people about this space for it and I think that's very important thing that we need to continue to tell US officers people from underrepresented groups in the sector and other sectors is lake just because one person tells you. That doesn't have a bearing on your value as a human will your opinion and that might be other people who who are willing tonight. Be Open minded and. Try and be allies? In. Kind of going off of what you're saying about vengeance is while like I was thinking about when you me Al yet how old avoided? Kind of exhaustion along with my research is also one of the things that. Carried me through sometimes this is like for those really nine conversations with like I. Mean it's just generically like straight white men that will like have really basic conversations with about racism not anything is my research is just additional weapons in my being like, Liz financier this is waiting to shut up. would. Not Agree. Mall. Culture I. I didn't said it already but she. I love she will the new isn't it? Is so good they have. Every character who is quit in whichever way but identify they get a voice actor who also did is the same way. The main storyline was. Going to give. Away that there is A. Story in it but the producers who greatly. So they would never be able to actually implement like very young Sua Jake was like. Kinda gave little notes to it being more than a friendship. Throughout The. Very low like. They ended up having to ensure that they did get together right at the end because how do they made explicit? They, like older crabby. And those. Child like everyone knew what was going on but I feel like you don't you lose a about the spaces that you read line I wonder if. In a sense like dot kind of went over the heads of the. Of like any straight people producing would have stopped the his in the same way the in museums and galleries in heritage how you have these images these pictures of let to naked women event together. It's like the Hashtag of Gals just being Paul's. No one believes this is a genuine relationship. We have because it was very so things that you know. You set lacks experience and I thought that was really great and yet the fact that they have characters food. Various backgrounds. No one talks is not is not ever office just saying but is. There is one issue where they have. A Non Binary. Character to happens to be a villain and I realize that in content is like quite a big truck. When someone who is known binary will be villain. So in that sense, it's kind of like. Yeah but for the most part, it's like really good does China character on as well. I think throughout the season Kind of. Imply that this taking. A little bit Tashaun like it's just it's just very, very sweet and very like. Happens to help. Also just came out with that so that young people can see it and like see as normalized. Right it's all of it. Okay. So as I feel like an honored guest in the conversations around where I can say because I am. I saw A. TV then I'M GONNA go see if a highbrow and took tra. I friend of mine is a beautiful Latte. Poet Anti has a self published a book of poetry called unreal unrealistic expectations of the poems. Leeann stood up I actually read a poem to you guys in one of bright. and He. In the theme of so of sometimes the best revenge is revenge, but sometimes, the best revenge is living while he has already created joyful trae about herself and our outlook on life and a work. Israeli. Berlin Yeah. Everyone should read poetry because he actually really celebrate saying a black. Woman and. Dreams. At just look away but that is my pulse reverend. Leon stood up I would try only. We should back up. But Joan, was there anything that you wanted to promote any final thoughts that you had anything that you wanted to? To. To. wasn't an wasn't something and mine I wanted to combine if it's promotion mighty whites and that's am I went on a that Joel an abolitionist walking all at Lunden. I can give you the aling subside even. This but yesterday basically is run by an amazing academic Hannah Rise Murray and. Basically, I mean she is. So it's She coming takes you around site swag. I black ABOLITIONISTS, Spike. In. The the eighteenth century and she does this really great thing way she puts it into kind of a much longer context, and so actually you end up thinking about the links between the mass movements and. I'm black black resistance just. The kind of Amazingness as somebody from London thinking about these Oso reaching me sites in. So Central, I can come garden that Web at people like Frederick Douglas spoke to crowds of hundreds of people in. In the eighteenth century and it just it was. It was really. And it was really moving I'm say. And also was yet because it was. Just a really we'd accessible not inclusive. Just really interesting. So that would be my. My promotions last mighty whites permission. Saying definitely GONNA look up. On A quick shout out because there is an organization colors youth network, which has recently tied up in Manchester. So they were people quit Mukalla white light organizations and they. Started a new organization that crowdfunding at the moment. So they're really really that talk and I just wanted to give them a shower that. If a white lesson that sports youth network officially my, mind is late. I'm GonNa do to just because I'm greedy. podcast you what you like really but a as Michelle does say. I would like to give a shout out to. The HIP hop archive, which will be opening in Manchester. And I'm. Excited and It's it's opening. Its thing is been funded by the heritage lottery funding the it's about just really really looking forward to that. Developed in having new different people urging it and I'll definitely be. Jewish volunteer but. I'm yeah I'm really. excited. About. that. And also just in general if anybody has. Any that have. Chimes. Actional? Onto twitter, the Trans Accrue you UK. They charity that's run by and four townspeople. They aimed to chef around role health and experience. and. Then chromite wellbeing success and try and bilk. They work really hard to basically make the lines transpeople and stop all this ridiculousness the happening at the moment if you have any cash they fundraising. At transactional usage. On they do with. White so they can be. So much politics organizations saw lead as you said, by people who actually are affected by those issues on it makes so much different. But also knowing that there are people going out and doing stuff when they have very decimated because it's important invested in telling these stories gravy really amazed X. though like the Whenever, I actually managed to get to London some Joining Museum and then he missed were. If you can't if if you WANNA do. Yet can online I know so I'm Frey San. Jose. Yeah. Wow that's really great. Right. We WanNA. Thank you so much for Click on Dr John. and. Yeah, we're just going to follow you work with enthusiasm and try. And we'll see what she. Thank you.

US John Dr. John Jonathan Ward Mike McKee King Dot Dr. Jones Chun King's College London quaid BSO William Henry Johnson Basil Systems Johnny PUCK Carolina reflectiveness Cooper Joan
India Tomorrow part 2: the politics of Hindu nationalism

The Anthill

37:03 min | 2 years ago

India Tomorrow part 2: the politics of Hindu nationalism

"So the roots of Hindu nationalism. I'm actually I guess the same as the roots of nationalism in India per se, we really need to go to the nineteenth century when a lot of people were asking questions like why are we subjugated while we under colonial rule? What does that mean? Shalini Sharma is a lecturer in colonial and post colonial history at the university of Kiel in the decades after the unsuccessful Indian rebellion against British colonial rule in eighteen fifty seven a number of new movements sprung up some thinking hard about religion. Now, someone like the night goes Sevaka was very much influenced by these movements. He was very much a nationalist. He was somebody who was imprisoned because he was very close to people who were conspiring to assassinate British. Administrators and while he was in jail. He was picking up on the latent anti Islamic sentiments of a number of Hindu, reformist groups in India of the nineteenth century and early twentieth century, and he decided to Penn sort of pamphlet cooled Hindutva in which he defined what a Hindu was in for basically claimed that a Hindu is somebody whose religion was born in the territory that we now know as pre partition India so seeks John's Buddhists and Hindus of all different sort of sex of within Hinduism. They are in those people whose relig-. Jn was not born in India. So Christians and Muslims. Do not constitute Hindus and are thus outside of Hindutva. One in eight people in the world is an Indian under the age of thirty. Ultimately, if the people of Indian Kashmir decide that they do not want to be about of India, then all bets are off in terms of what Buxton will do as well all political parties will try to indulge in some sort of spinning and some sort of fake news. Egypt is politics are hyper-nationalist. You shares with the current hyper-nationalist moment, which is sweeping crossword. He's representing the people who believe in and stand for a unified strong nation. You're listening to India tomorrow series from the ant hill Poku, I brought to you by the conversation. I'm about blowing from the conversation UK, and I'm in Reggie Troy a lecturer in politics at the university of York import one of the series. We looked at how fake news fuels violence in India. And why the battle for inflammation plays a crucial role in elections in this episode will be finding out about Hindu nationalism where it came from its influence in India today and its centrality to the politics of current prime minister Narendra Modi and his BJP party. When I say the word Hindutva, injure. What does it mean to you Hindutva has been interpreted in a number of ways for some Hindutva has an inclusive dimension which suggests that everyone irrespective of their cast crew. Read language, or indeed, even religious affiliation is Hindu on reading some of the core Hindutva texts. However, and this is a few to which I have come to subscribe, increasingly it's quite clear that hindered is premised on the exclusion of religious minorities and people with different political ideas. One of the key Hindutva ideologues says that Muslims Christians and communists, cannot in fact be Indian well, so how central has Hindu nationalism will hint it for being too. The rise of Narendra Modi. Modi's rise can be attributed to the coming together of three quite distinct groups so to speak one group, which was supportive of economic development. More broadly and taught moody would deliver. This is not a group that was terribly taken in by Hindutva though, it could tolerate in. The if it meant bringing together economic growth, a second group a second constituency, if you will were those who believed Modi's rise would lead to some sort of low cost emancipation because of Modi's own supposedly low-caste origins, a third group, and this answers your question, a third group that was quite key to Modi's rise or the Hindu nationalists who believed that they would deliver some version of the Hindu nation, and it's not just Modi's political party, the BJP, which pursues this Hindu, nationalist agenda. The BJP is parts of a large collection of other organizations. Yes, this family of organizations if you will is called the sangha provide one of the most powerful organizations within this family is the rush tria Swayamsevak sung or RSS, which roughly means the national volunteer organizations while the. Ara says is officially separate from the BJP. It will considerable influence over the party's politics. It was founded in nineteen twenty five by a man called Keisha. Billy ram head giver. Head girl was influenced by the idea of Hindutva and Hindu nationalism. And by the rise of fascism in Italy, Shalini Shamma explains more about its origins. His group of volunteers had to wear a uniform. They were very much identified as a Hindu group and influenced by a Sevaka definition of what a Hindu was am what Hindu needed to do which was to become strong. It was very sort of masculine movement to take up arms it dented against gone. These ideas of nonviolence, it was very much a military movement. Asta head gave died in nineteen forty. The ARA says was taken up by a man called Madhav Sadashiv Golkar, the gentlemen, to whom I referred to earlier who made the comments about Muslims, Christians, and communists, Golwalkar stopped. The ARA says from becoming a political party, but the party was actually banned for a period in nineteen forty eight after the murder of the father of the Indian nation Mahatma Gandhi by a man called not round. Go say who it was claimed was inspired by the Artis Rawda. The Sousa a reader in law at the university of Westminster on an expert in the Indian constitution explains. What happened next? There was a dispute, and then they'll ban was lifted on the condition that are uscis would accept the Indian constitution and work with an illegal. Framework because Otta said we are only Cultural Organization, and what kind of democracy is that bans cultural organizations. So Dr Patel who was that. Then home minister, his condition was okay, we will lift the ban if you agree to work within the legal framework and have some constitution for your own organization. But Rawda says that while the RSS agreed to these two conditions. It has implemented neither of them. And one of the central reasons why the RSS opposed India's new constitution was because it didn't create India as a Hindu nation state and the constitutent assembly adopted, a secular constitution and by secularism. It was not just that state will refrain from supporting religions, but state will be even ended with all religions so will not privilege one religion over another will be even ended. Will allow equal freedoms to all religions, and that was in the constitution. And they never except. They have never accepted that even now from the nineteen twenties onwards, the politics of Hindu, twelve effective, according to Shalini Sharma because it's affiliated organisations spread out per meeting different aspects of Indian society in different ways. So for example, you know, you could say that the RSS was simply a volunteer in group. There were other strands to hint that further something called VHP, which is a World Hindu Council and also in nineteen fifty one that was born a political party of him that for which was the bar year Johnson, which in the nineteen eighties became what we now know as the pay. This is. The policy of prime minister Narendra Modi, which was elected to a landslide victory in twenty fourteen. Good evening industries with democracy, and what of the it's been Narendra more. The will be India's next prime minister the private business. Hindu nationalist, BJ has exceeded the two hundred seventy two seat majority needed to create a government without forming a coalition speaking on Friday motif funked, the Indian people carrying out what he called a great responsibility. At the center of the ideas of Hindutva that have influenced the politics of the AP, and it's affiliates is the idea that India is a country for the Hindus at the exclusion of others. It's an idea that has caused real violence against minority groups in India, but equally Muslims, but also against people often Hindus who have objected to this very very exclusive understanding of Hindutva and of Indian nationalism Charlene Sharma explains that what has United various Hindu, nationalist groups is the question who are the enemies of Hindutva on these enemies are identified as these different religious groups, Christians on more importantly, Muslims on what you've seen happen is. But the political wing of him for the BJ pay from the ninth. Eighteen eighties onwards latched onto what it called historic wrongs and the main historic wrong was this idea that the Muslim invader had historically committed a lot of acts of barbarism against Hindus. The most poignant of these wrongs was this idea that the emperor barber in the sixteenth century had destroyed a Hindu temple which was built to commemorate. The birthplace of a Hindu. God law drum Rome that Hindu celebrate during the festival of lights Divulje, this temple was an place called I audio in the state of ood opera. Dash also known as UP this is the largest state in India. It has a population the same sizes Brazil, and it's at the center of what's called the Hindi belt. In the early nineteen ninety s UP was controlled by the beach AP, his schilling. Again, what the P did from especially from the late eighties. Was speaking to call for the destruction of this mosque that was built atop the Hindu temple. And even though the BJP leaders, LOL, Kushner, Advani and Bihari watch by the time claimed that they weren't calling for the destruction of the mosque in the mass mobilizations in the fact that they were leading a whole sort of movements of people in a what they call the Yatra or large processions to Ward's. I o thea and garnering hundreds of thousands of people to sort of meet at I o the Attica and time for them. They were saying that it was to actually offer. Prayers to the Lord Rama at this place. But this led to the destruction Rick by brick of the mosque while the police on ministers of therapy. Just look to on the destruction of the Babri Masjid at a youth ear was carried out on the sixth of December nine hundred ninety two off to that. There were a number of sports, you can cool pogroms of Muslims especially in palm bay an again nothing much happened. This was simply accepted the Indian parliament, which was congress controls the time did condemn this. But again, it was sort of complicit in that action wasn't immediately taken against those who had perpetuated both this destruction of a sixteenth century mosque as well as the actions against Muslims in Bombay in early nineteen Ninety-three. So this violence. And the rise of groups like the count protection squads that we heard about import one have led to growing phys Hindu nationalism is built around intolerance of and violence towards minorities, particularly Muslims Hindu, nationalism has been promised as we saw earlier on the idea that Muslims and indeed people whose fates did not awkward not claim to be of Indian origin weren't really Indians. So the link between Hindu, nationalism and violence against religious minorities is difficult to seek debates rage on today about the sites. I Aldea Hindu nationalist groups continue to cool for a temple to be built on the site. Yet topper dash has a large Muslim population vehemently opposed to the plan in early March two thousand nineteen India supreme court ruled that a prolonged land dispute over the future of the site at a youth here. Should be settled by a secret mediation process when a five judge bench off the supreme court headed by the chief Justice today referred the dispute to a three-member panel of mediators who have eight weeks to speak to all the stakeholders for solution. That's eight weeks from early March. So a decision is expected in early may in the middle of the national elections internet. Do you think the IOT a land dispute will be an election campaign issue? I'm sure the BJP will try and make it one. We had thought it would play a much bigger role than it has at the moment. However, the issue seems to have run out of steam. But you never know. It's a contentious topic. Right. Absolutely. Well, let's take a closer look at the way Hindutva has become a political force in India Modi's election in twenty fourteen wasn't the first time that the BJP an openly Hindu nationalist party came to power was it. No you. All right. The BJP has been a strong political force in India since the late twentieth century, it's charisma leader Atal Bihari watch by was prime minister from nine hundred ninety eight two thousand and four. He also briefly been prime minister for a few days in nineteen Ninety-six, but watch pies BJP never had the majority in the looks of her India's parliament and ruled as a part of a coalition called the National Democratic Alliance or NDA which was made up of regional parties with varying political orientations, but when the BJP came to power in twenty fourteen it was a different story. Yes. In two thousand and fourteen the BJP won a majority of the seats for the first time moldy still governs at the head of the coalition, but the BJP itself one two hundred eighty two out of five hundred and forty three seats giving them ten seats more than they needed for an overall majority. This was a crushing victory to understand the role. The Hindutva for politics played in render Modi's twenty fourteen landslide. We called up somebody who has been studying the politics of the BJP and its rise. You're I'm Jay would've earthy associate roof that football to study that they're allowed in New Delhi. India Jay says the last ten years in India have business an unprecedented rise of far right-wing groups led by the RSS, and the BJP two thousand nineteen is extremely important because the last five years, I think they've made some preparatory steps in terms of actualising the region of realizing what about with the Hindu rust that it's a religious geographic majority, Hindu state and auditors for long as had plans of amending the constitution on its way. Liberal progressive, secular socialist provision in terms of creating this state. If a BJP is to return to power in two thousand nineteen with a similar kind of a majority of my own understanding is that they will be moving very fast. Worth realizing this some of this majority provision repression for which I think has been made in the last four or five years in terms of creating a total consent and the social consensus for that kind of air theocratic regime various electoral surveys have shown a core hindered vote of about twenty to twenty five percent that is a quote committed into group which convinced by the social vision of the Hindu rust anything beyond that is something that the BJP bills depending on each election Ajay says the back in twenty fourteen the PJ p also managed to win support from voters who may not have traditionally been drawn to the politics of Hindu nationalism. Members of what's traditionally seen as low cost groups to understand this first we need to take little tool to understand the role cost plays in the narrative of Hindu nationalism. And in Indian society today. Hindu nationalism emerged in India at the time when people stigmatized as lower cost demanding more recognition historians. Shalini Shamma explains. The constitution writers of India in the late nineteen forties. Trying to tackle the historic wrong of the cost system. The cost system in Hinduism was such that there was a hierarchy and right at the bottom of the so-called on touchable 's all the le'ts. An edict was written into the constitution that guarantees reservations a foam of positive discrimination for delegates who have historically been oppressed. As untouchables. This means a certain percentage of jobs and places at universities are reserved for Taliban now in the late eighties early nineties at the same time as when the BJP was on the rise. Some people say it was on the rise. Because low cost groups were beginning to demand from the Bello cook governments reservations so to be seen as but could costs so. So that they would be able to have a way into getting government jobs and places for their children in universities people from higher costs were not happy with this extension of positive discrimination to include this group known as the other backward. Classes or OB sees which is a large group of people that are neither high cost or on touchable 's the BJP latched onto this on happiness. So in that sense. It was the party of the higher costs advocating their cause and trying to unite Hindus in other ways. So to say, let's not be divided on the basis of cost. We need to be United against these other religions who are trying to break us up then that sort of feeds into an feeds from into for ideology. To fund out. More about cost politics today recalled up Suria can't work Maury and associate professor at the department of humanities and social sciences at the I T bombie suited Kant says Hinduism and cast a closely linked you cannot really put gas from elusive. Surpassed if center to making one Hindu status and duty are intensively linked in caste hierarchies. And it is the undetectable who bear the brunt of being permanently impure that under table when people from the so-called higher costs such as Brahmins touch something impure, they can perform a ritual purity themselves, but Dr let's all the so-called untouchables a seen as pulmonary impure. There are several reasons, but one of the important reasons is said to be that because they ate beef. They consumed commeet- and Calvin supposed to be the ultimate form of beauty and holy beat. Should can't has been doing some fascinating research on the ways in which cast is experienced differently in different parts of India. But tick Eulalie different cities such as. Politician Bombay or Mumbai compared to Emmett about a smaller city in Gujrat parts of what he studies is violence against dots. Something he says his traditionally been seen as a problem in rural communities, but he's finding just how much it's taking place in cities to what we definitely see is. There's a general increase in crimes against the lives across Sudan says it would be misplaced to attribute this increase in violence, totally to the rise of the BJP, and that it's part of a much longer power struggle within Indian society. But what definitely happened is that big confidence amongst the highest Gus is definitely turning into at times into he points to a case in the city of Puna involving domestic worker who gave the impression to her employer that she was a high cost Brahmin when actually she was a. Morata who the Brahmins consider low cost? She told it did Bramley that I am also Bram, however, been the Berman employer gotten the cart of this Murata woman. She went and find a complaint in the politician saying that this woman has been barred the religious rituals in my house and has light to me that he's Browning where she's a Murata, and she has done for, you know, hurt my religious sentiments and the police actually file this complaint. The took this company Syra count listed a couple of other examples of everyday violence against let's though this one case where. Rickshaw driver who is supposed to be undetectable cost. What it says the rickshaw driver was Daulat? He overtakes a guy driving small call who it turns out is from a so called higher cost in this case. It was a cost known as the warrior cost and asked him who are you? What is your cost? And when the picture was shared his cost. She immediately went to his GAAS boot pulled out a knife came back and kind of famous lastest for it. So what Syria count is implying here is the sum supposedly higher cost Hindus fail. They've been given a license to try and reimpose these cost hierarchies. And while this is nothing new it's become more prominent onto the J P. How do you think the Mody government has dealt with cost? That's an interesting question. So in January twenty nineteen they government announced it. It would introduce a ten percent reservation policy aimed at the economically. Weak from among the haikus, it Julius election time, and caught up politics is back in full force in a clear move to win over the upper caste votes. The moody government today a ten percent reservations for those who are economically weaken over the job could other for SDS's. And the obese so Essy's are what's called shed, you'll costs and the OB sees the other backward. Classes should these dicussed about whom we've heard earlier for whom certain jobs and university places have been reserved. But basically, this new policy means that there will be coders specifically for poor people from among the so called high cost groups such as the brands, for example. Yes, this is something I've found intriguing about cost differences. I think I had a tendency to think of cost is similar to cloth that we have in the UK, so which largely an economic thing. But as Syrah count was saying on his, HUD. If you'll from so-called high cost, you're not necessarily well off and a lot of it's to do with this idea of purity. So just how political is this move by the J P to introduce a new reservations policy. Eights all politics. Okay. Let's take a step back and look at the populations that we're talking about we know from census data that the shangen costs or the deletes as they are more popularly called make up about sixteen percent of India's population that original variations, but there are about sixteen percent of the population. The shed you'll tribes the other group for whom reservations were introduced are at approximately eight percent beyond these figures. We just have lots of speculation in two thousand and eleven a cost census was conducted. But the data was never actually made available to the public various population. Projections have suggested however that the other backward classes, this large chunk in between the so called high costs and the so called untouchables maybe anywhere between forty and sixty percent of the Indian population. Now, that's huge forty to sixty percent of the Indian. Relation. And so if you look at the figures the high cost component of the Indian people is unlikely to exceed about twenty percent. Now Modi's new reservations for the poor as he puts it aims to significant chunk of this twenty percent. So the BJP's policy stems from a deep seated opposition to Costco tires which the party believes would undermine Hindu humidity. We've heard a lot about the history on appeal of Hindu, nationalist politics in India introduced has this kind of politics permeated, the whole of the political system or is ideology, largely the domain of the BJP Narendra Modi. That he's a really good question. So there's a popular saying among Indians that what the PGP does by day the congress has by night. What does that mean? So the BJP, of course, has fashioned itself after Hindu tied eulogy suggesting that India is for the Hindu that set cetera. As we've heard and the congress, of course, has always been secular, staunchly secular. But when it came to mobilizing religion for political ends, the congress in some ways fashion that art even better than the BJP has so long before the BJP started, mobilizing and manipulating Hindu views. The congress was an adept player at this game. The earliest congress party symbols. Would you believe it what they were guests? I'm gonna guess at something religious. It's the cow. Yes. Wow. When the congress fought its first elections, it's electoral symbol was the cow. And the idea was that, you know, religiously minded voters would vote for the congress because it was, you know, a party that was sort of supportive of Hindu views. So in a sense why it's correct to say Hindutva as an ideology is certainly within the domain of the BJP, the congress doesn't speak the language of him. But when it comes to mobilising Hindus sentiments, the congress has done that long before the BJP has and in some ways, the congress continues to do that even now so do political parties subscribe to Hindutva not really I wouldn't say that all political parties subscribed to Hindutva all it's flames. India has a large number of parties that are specific to certain states and these often tend to deliberately avoid Hindu nationalism. Some of the BJP's own allies even avoided such as the Akali Dal in Punjab, which is a sick denominational party leftist parties and parties espousing delayed and low cost emancipation such as their prodigious Behudin so much party who supremo Maya at the is a popular candidate for prime minister among many dollars also tend to distance themselves from Hindutva as a matter of principle and. Of course, the most spectacular example of a state level political party that has consistently taken a principle stand against handled for is Bihar's Russia genital led by the firebrand Lalu Prasad Yadav. So we asked Ajay good of what the best way would be to find another political narrative as appealing to the Indian electric as Hindu nationalism. He said it was a question that the left liberal parties in India should be applying the minds to know what Beijing and others have done is to bring in another stand hotel psychology of the electorate where they will use cultural symbols low palladium, very strongly on much of the left liberal centers parties in that sense. Do not have the kind of connect with locally cultural symbols religious symbols to the big question constitutional vision. What would it link be with cultural and religious symbols? Can we ever more progressive? More secular more inclusive kind of use of these religious symbols locally beyond merely using them prejudice and fuller is Asian BJP and our assess Hu's local religious rituals as part of that politics. They use the count, for example, which is a wholly simple for Hindus. Meanwhile, some Muslims and Hindus eat beef and others work in the leather industry. There are also those who collect the bodies of dead cows. And as we heard in the first episode of this series fake news stories about cows have led to vigilant violence across India from groups of cow protection. Squads nj says a rebuffed debate is needed to pull polarizing religious symbols such as the cow out of politics. Instead, he says what's needed is to create an alternative political narrative built around social welfare and protections for both the middle and lower class. Ios in cultural agenda has a political economy. There's an economic reasoning also behind it this kind of an aggressive shift that we're witnessing towards hate and rage like the United States. What happened with respite is something similar in the Indian context on a much larger massive scale where you know, your public attacks beating in terms of shading values collapse, former neighborhoods idea of aggressive competition of this massive anxieties, insecurity. So that kind of social psychology. I think age in the he points to the southern states of Carola, which has a robust welfare system. But in some health system is free education subsidized of public for subsidized food is upside many have schemes of that kind. I think the basic anxiety levels are moderated than you cannot very easily generate this kind of very polarized narrative painting the Muslim hitting the Christians are getting the delay. Soren into. So I think welfare system a strong welfare state will provide the first entry point for the liberal constitutional left forces in India to actually check this kind of animated rise of right agr-. Central to the politics of this aggressive far-right, Hindu nationalism is a dislike of the Indian constitution. It's secular nature and the protections. It contains India's minorities another major boon of contention is article three seventy of the Indian constitution, which the Hindu right believes offers preferential treatment to the state of Jammu in Kashmir the history of Kashmir and the ongoing conflict between India and Pakistan is something we're going to explore in on next episode. I think that they're being difficult situation with Bacchus on our attend situation with STAN where moldy can stand up to them and can look tough and look hard. And so on is very helpful to his election prospects thoughts part three of this series from the hill. India tomorrow do subscribes you miss out. Thoughts it for this episode of the ant hill, a big thanks to my co host energy, ROY thanks Annaba. You can hit and read more of the conversations coverage of India by academics from around the world on the conversation dot com or follow us on social media. If you've got any questions relating to what we've been discussing in this series pleased to get in touch by Email on cost at the conversation dot com or find us on Twitter on hill. Pod we'll be putting your questions about India to a panel of academics. In an episode in the days off to the election results in late may, and if you're looking for a transcript of this episode and other episodes in this series. It will also be available soon on the conversation dot com. The big thanks to all the academics. Who spoke to us for this episode? And to the journalism department at City University for letting us use studios, the aunt hose produced by gem an me on about blah. Sound editing by Alex Felix, thanks to our into salami, Kaladze editing. Help listening goodbye goodbye.

BJP India Narendra Modi prime minister congress Indian society Hindu temple Shalini Sharma World Hindu Council RSS UK Shalini Shamma Bombay university of Kiel lecturer in politics Sevaka Egypt Indian parliament university of York