20 Episode results for "University Of Oklahoma"

Wholesale Market Changes on the Way  Whats Coming and How to Close 100+ Deals a Year w Small Team

Real Estate Disruptors

1:31:40 hr | 3 weeks ago

Wholesale Market Changes on the Way Whats Coming and How to Close 100+ Deals a Year w Small Team

"Everybody thank you for joining us for today's episode of real estate disruptors. Today we got cory boat right with house kings. And he's here from oklahoma city. The sheriff close over one hundred million dollars in transactions at crazy crazy number. This your first time tuning. I steve trang. An trains some of the top wholesalers in the country. And i'm on mission to create one hundred million or so one question i get all the time is how do i become one of the one hundred millionaires. And let me answer it here. If you just take consistent action in next five or seven years you will become one when you hear nugget please just type in the comments section and after the show at your single biggest takeaway and focus on just that for the next seven days if you get value out of the show please saxophone below. Shut us up with so right now that we can all grow together. You're ready. I am are is the first question. What got you into real estate. What got me involved real estate. So i'm forty four right now and i bought my first house and i was twenty one and i really didn't know on more than half of your life. Yeah wow yeah I really didn't know what i was doing Just kinda bought one with my roommate at the time and we lived in one side of this duplex And we're going to fix the other side up. I just we just did it. Just to save. Money wasn't from this part of like i'm going to you know start flipping houses or anything at your house. Hacking intent wasn't house hacking intentionally. We just lived in one side of it and then save money on the other side and we okay Will will fix this other side up and then maybe rented out but we weren't gonna flip it or anything so i wanted to learn how to do everything myself i am talking about. I wanted to tile the floors. I wanted to do all the plumbing. I wanted to and so i did a very ambitious. I was very ambitious and painting and still to this day. Man i i can. I can get paint on the ceiling in another room for somehow by me pain. I cannot stand amy and so but on the plumbing we had a plumbing had some pipe. Rake and i thought i'm gonna come in and fix this myself. I went in under the sink in and took something off. A shouldn't have and i thought i turned off one of the main but it wasn't the main one and water just blew up everywhere and it just soaked down everything and it just man ruined. I probably 'cause another five thousand dollars in more repairs then Then then was originally there. You know but i was just ambitious. Wanted to figure it out. And i just learned very quickly that. I'm not the person that can do that next. And actually spend more money you know by me doing it myself than just having a plumber. Come over and it's not necessarily money saving. No no twenty one is my bought my first dupleix house It wasn't until later on that. I started to get more involved with actually learning about wholesaling. I started out as bird dog. I was working in this. I worked a lot of different company. Pretty ambitious one of my good friends sold his internet company. And i think he was like twenty four years old and he sold it for seven million dollars still mentor to this day and He would just really like encourage me that there is this possibility that and it was an internet company and so i was like well i need to really start thinking about this internet thing so man i jumped into the internet game in my twenty s and a hard way. I mean i started to make make money by watching little videos if you remember this back in the day as like you watch these videos and you'd make money from watching videos and And then click. So i hired this guy from Overseas to build me up build me a little clicker so like you. You had to click this ad all the time and make sure that it was getting. They showed that you actually watching the video way way. Back right and a member. Goto dot com. You remember go to before. Original google pay per click is called goto. So we're buying traffic on. Go to where you can get like eight cent clicks and five cent clicks. I mean like popular terms now like real estate big flashing banner. Ads van or ads flashed. I had a company that i i actually had a company. That was That that would that. Would that would create those banners and then we had other people that we are working with that were we had a agreement with that we could run those banners on their site and so i had called banner servant. I had that company for a while. I i actually sold over ten thousand ginsu knives a month. How on ebay ten thousand ginsu knives a month on ebay. Thank my best month. No kidding was over hundred for the year. So i did you know multiple months with ten thousand knives a month i i bought all the so the point up to get into real estate is i got up to this. One company and i started to I kept kind of being drop shipper if you will which is basically finding a product that That is popular. And you don't take inventory physical inventory of it. You have an agreement usually as a reseller to come in then Sell it and then ship it to someone and you make the difference in between right basically the whole selling you know so if you remember plasma electronics so plasma tv's when they first came out there were like twenty thousand thirty thousand dollars. I the most beautiful thing. I've ever seen most beautiful things who's paying this much for tv. I got ginsu knives. Because i had the cell like hundreds and hundreds of ginsu knives to make as much money as i would on a plasma. Tv sell So getting up to the real estate question. I'm getting there. Is i had to basically build up this company for plasma. Tv's grew to several millions of dollars. I ended up selling that company. And when i did i started to look into what i could do with some of the proceeds which was to get into a real estate. So you were doing all these other hustles yup prior to real estate. Yes so and you start realizing when you're twenty one yes i was twenty one so not hearing is college. No yeah funny. I actually did go to a year and a half of college at uc. oh i dropped out of high school. My junior year university of oklahoma university central oklahoma. And only reason i went there. Can i drop out of high school whenever my junior year. I worked company called lifeline division and they offered a program that would put you if you wanted to go. Get your ged. So i got my gd and they offer to pay for your basics so that's the only reason that went to ucla. And i did i. I was studying marketing and my basics. I ended up actually quitting their starting starting the company which is the plasma electron electron his company. Well and the reason. Why i'm asking. This is that you know right now. We got trying to grow our social media influence. We have a lot of younger tiktokers and the question that comes up over and over again because of this as a younger demographic shift go to college right and i used to say. Yeah you should now. I'm saying well. I don't know maybe it depends. We're trying to do right. And it used to be colleges like longtime ago called. Wasn't that important and now like good-looking job without college degree right and now it's like. Do you really need to go to college. The i don't think you do how. I m my stepson nick which is eighteen. He started oakland university. Studying be a cardiologist. Super bright kid. Four point four. Gpa you know. Academia is his. He loves it absolutely studying to be a cardiologist. I would think steve that. I'd want somebody that probably went to college for eleven years health and allies. I don't want to have side. Hustle like yeah. I did a good job on my hair. I need to work on your heart and you know like But i do think it's. It's like uber. Specialized knowledge right. I think that whenever you look at specialized knowledge in kind of any anything it's always gonna be kinda worth a little bit more but at the end of the day you know. If you're an entrepreneur. And you know that. I think it's hard to teach drives. Someone asked me this a long time ago. How can you be taught how to be driven. You don't think so. I don't think so either. My ever since i was like gosh i mean in grade school i would sell used. Things called members hot toothpicks. How hot cinnamon or meant to make different flavors. And i'd sell those on the grade school and i. Sometimes i trade them for candy and i did glitter pencils. No kidding glitter pencils and girl i liked. I put our name on on the glitter pencil and give it one one for her to her for free but all this time it was just hustle and i got transformer go bots cell trading go and it was just driven to be able to. There's something about exchange a bartering bartering. You know right. That always just really enjoyed halloween to do this. I would say probably seven or eight. Okay whenever i was really just starting to understand like i really enjoyed this stuff. Yeah because i wasn't doing that until like an eighth grade school so all right so then you're doing positive vs that's awesome. They're also domain brokers. Was that before after real estate. No no that was before real estate. I mean pretty much. When i went into the real estate it was game over. Yeah okay so talking about the domain brooker thing. Because i i do a little bit. I wasn't domain broker. I own a lot of domains. Okay right so talk to me about. How did you get into that and would you do. What was that about so a friend of mine was selling domains on ebay Just like i was selling ginsu knives on ebay and The reason i started blowing up on ebay is because they had this thing called dutch auction. I don't haven't been on ebay and while to do this. But they had this thing. Where basically you list A product and as soon as it sold it would immediately have another one. Come up to be bought again. You didn't have to go in there and do anything. It's called the dutch oxen So i started to do that with ginsu knives and charging ninety nine cents instead of the eight dollars. What most people were charging but charged like seven dollars for shipping. So i did the whole free shipping model in a way in the beginning and Hustling and my doing kind of similar with domains He was selling like tons of like listed ton of them For like ninety nine cents but he would let them just run on auctions and some of them would get up to eight hundred. Nine hundred dollars will back. Then you'd pay ten dollars per domain so one cell could cover all of these usually on the other ones at least get five dollar bids or ten dollars so he was making money and he would make a whole lot of money on the big ones and some of them do so for several thousands of dollars ties like man. That sounds kinda cool. You know i'd like to be a domain broker too. So i ended up getting over thousand domains. You know Some of my. I had a pretty good success on so but it was another business. You know what your what your biggest one was was yadollah dot com. I ended up selling it to a subsidiary of yahoo for ten thousand dollars. Nice vehicle one letter from yahoo. So you remember. Get this duplex running the other side. You do it yourself. Yeah screw it up screwed up kept it resulted. Ended up selling it okay. Do you make money. i did awesome. So then what was the next chapter after that. Well after three years. I know i know man. So the plasma t. business. After i sold that i got some money and i really started thinking okay. What's the next what's the next step. You know one of our good friends. David phelps says. What's your next year next. Yeah so i was. Like what's my next and i knew that real estate was something that was intriguing to me and i made some money on that duplex. But i didn't really think like that was going to be. Something is going to start pursuing so heavily. Because i thought you had to. I know it's going to sound really strange. But i thought i had to have some kind of degree to do it. We don't know what we do know what we don't. I thought i had to have some kind of something behind my name to to be a real estate investor. Yeah but it doesn't sound so strange him to allow people in business. You need to be you need to have a real estate license. Yeah so it's not as strange similar. Yeah similar. I thought i had to have. Yeah so What i did is. I ended up every one of the people that would buy those plasma. Tv's you don't think they have money right. There are fluent so i'd have conversations with those people and sometimes pretty long actually later on in life. I still had some of those. That became a private lender but They would buy these. Twenty thousand dollar plasma. Tv's not always ask him. What was it that led to your success. And what do you think they said rosa. Yes nine times out of ten times real estate real estate real estate real estate. So i knew i needed to really look into it. So after Sold company what i wanted to do is then go and Get into real estate more. So i went on ebay like i mean i loved ebay i really i typed in real estate investor. How to sell real estate. How am i just bought. Every course e book anything that they had then to learn from. And i made a commitment to myself for one whole year and i'm a musician by the way so i. That's a whole thing. But i play guitar when i was thirteen. Years old played in a christian. Heavy metal band sold over twenty thousand albums crazy stuff. Happened played cornerstone one of the largest christian festivals in the country. And just crazy. Things happen through that ministry in through that time with my buddies and so you know being a musician playing guitar music so important to you. I vowed to not listen to any music for one whole year. And i actually did from one year and one day and all i did was listen to real estate. Ron the grand Listen to tony. Robbins listened to brian. Tracy listened to. I mean just all of these old real estate guys also actually listening to the bible too and i just listened all the time my car. In fact there's times. I would drive home and i think you know what i didn't finish this. I'm just going to drive another turn around and drive another in this to come back just to listen to so basically even know. I dropped out of high school. I feel like i have a you know in over ten thousand hours and listening to your tone all these different Influencers in you know personal achievement. Guys and i've listened around the grand backwards and forwards. I when i met him when he actually got into c g i know he was one of our groups and i it was just like a star-struck moments. Like man you you don't even understand went through your courses. So what i would do is go through courses. i'd highlight them. And then i would put them back on ebay after i was done with them and sell them often for more money. Because i would say comes with notes no kidding and so i joke around too and i say i literally. I didn't have to pay a whole lot. Because i would go through. The course i'd finish it usually in a week. I usually i was just. I didn't imagine was so hungry to learn the stuff and i got to a place whereas confident enough where i was like all right. I'm ready. what do i need to do. And so i found a guy that was bind zone houses and i became a bird dog com. Got it and this is before after the duplex. This is after a duplex. Okay so duplex lot of education and then you burdock yup and bird dogging something that until very recently i never understood. Yeah because like if you're going to find a property wind just contract yourself now. I know why can't contract yourself but until very recently i understand that really well 'cause i thought continuous easing cancel. Whatever yeah but actually you know fraudulent to contract. Property can't by so right bird. Dogs makes sense now right So all right so bird dog and so who did you bird dog for. And what was that like. Yeah so. I got him brian. He owned his dad and a lot of real estate and he had some two and you know he basically said hey man just go out look for a bunch of houses have high weeds and stuff on the windows and looks like it's going to be broken into or was broken into and let me know they address such driving for dollars and find a binding. I'll pay you five hundred bucks if i end up I think it's like if you give me more than three. You all pay a thousand bucks. So i ended up doing bird dog for him just learning. You know but eventually i'm like okay. What is he doing with it And once i realized what he was doing it with some of those what he would he would wholesale him and that was a whole first concept ever had of he was also wholesaling welby necessarily if not all of them. He was flipping some of them. Use wholesaling some of them. He's buying holdings you know and so he was kind of doing all of it. But i realized that the ones that he was wholesaling often heating the money and i was like wait a minute so he just wholesale and i think it's because i found another guy that bought the house from him and i was like looking and seeing like how much he made from. It was like five thousand dollars. So it's like okay. I'm making five hundred dollars. You make him five thousand dollars. And i was like i just need to figure out if that's possible. I want to be on that side possible and if it is what what i needed to get there. So what did you do with information. So i just dug into more real estate education and started learning everything i can about wholesaling and found out that i didn't have to have the money to go by the house. Im- buyer had the money to buy the house I had a credit line. I could take down the property if i needed to. I had my own money. I could take it down. But i wanted to well but often I i to have to bring more money. So i remember the first time that i made A wholesaling fee was like twenty five hundred dollars and it was it. Was that same moment. That whenever i sold my first plasma tv. And i made like four grand. You know as thinking i've had many ginsu knives. Do i have to sell to make four thousand dollars in a day all right so it was the same moment it was like. I'm at the bird dog. Five deals too. You know. And so. I just started thinking i i just need to learn more about you know wholesale and nanny figure out way push up my fees and so is that what you did. You jumped in the wholesale first. Yup i and natural progression. When did you say i deal. Chemin i deal. It had to been well so in two thousand it was long it was it was a lot of years later so i would say i probably was gosh. Probably two thousand and two thousand all right tomorrow and so you started wholesaling. What was that eventually. Because that's completely different market right. I mean this is over. Twenty years ago it's completely different business model so it was that journey like what was that. Like okay There's no pulling lists. There's no no pointless source. No there's no mis stories. No nothing like that right. It was just straight hustle. It was just driving for dollars and instead of having to bird dog and give them basically get my own leads and found buyers arm you drive it and then you talked to the homeowners. That's right got it. Okay and then. How did you find buyers 'cause oklahoma. I is it. Isn't it a nondisclosure state. Now have we can go right on this. I wasn't smart enough then to do. I wasn't taking that angle. Then i was just finding people at like a regroup. And i was back then i think there was like i think craigslist was a big one. Maybe or something like that. Maybe like an online place But a lot of times just a community found buyers in the community guy. Yeah okay and after you started. Wholesaling wasn't next pivot. So after that i started seeing the guys that were wholesaling In one about they would go and fix them flip so they would get these properties and fix them up and flip them. I thought well that's interesting. Because they're making fifteen or twenty thousand dollars or more you know. So i'm like i need to be a rehab. I need to go. And get these the fixed flip so i started a little Kind of like a riyadh Had a couple crews working. Doing we had houses that were we having and i quickly learned i was only in that for i think a year and a half and i quickly learned that that was not what i wanted to do. You want to know why probably goes back to saint story as the twenty one year old and i in the playoffs sort of One whenever you think you're going to make twenty thousand dollars on a rehab eastern oklahoma that time on the say a forty or fifty thousand dollar house often that was about thirty percent more than what you actually ended up netting because of all the stuff that happened time line. You're spending more money from the other thing was a budget other thing. That really made the difference. Is i went into one of my jobs. And there was a guy on the. There's there is a He had some subs in the back in. The subs were an oklahoma. We have you know. A lot of indians You know rap ajo turkey and all this and we had some ending guys that he was working with and they were drinking mouthwash on the porch getting drunk on the back. These are subs and it was like a weekend or something like that. And he didn't know. I was like gonna come by and i came by and he was again the living room and they were on the back porch drinking mouthwash and getting drunk. Now i know it sounds crazy but you can actually get your uncle mouthwash. I've never done it next question. I've never done it but It's got lot alcohol in it. Yeah that's interesting pro. Burn your throat. All i can't imagine but There were doing this. And i got so so charged emotionally that i went in and i confronted the c and we got into a very big altercation where we like. We're going to basically throw throw punches. Pulled a gun on me. And i'm i've only had two guns pulled me in my entire life. One i worked. I lived at a place called potomac house apartments in oklahoma city with during that time my The christian band. I wore red hat and the that time it was like crips and bloods and a guy approach one time and thought i had a you know had on that shouldn wrong color and he he confronted me and it was actually a band called the crucified christian but he thought it was a freaking gang thing that was the first time and then this time during my contractor and he pointed it right at me and i just remember like is this worth it like do i do i. Is it really worth it to do this. Because am i gonna have to go check up on all these and how you know just so. I just made a decision right then and there that i wanted to get out of rehabbing plus. It really really wasn't making as much as i thought it was. It was a bright. It's frustrating anyways. You see those margins those guys profits and you find out what the true prophets are. That's right and so. I i just kind of move away from that and i started looking into create a finance. Got it so what was that so i actually started to do lease options on ebay. Good old ebay get went back lease options. I would put on the option consideration fee as the as the as the ebay auction. And i didn't care. If i got one big so i just wanted somebody that agreed to making the payment and send the down. You know sitting down. So i i started doing lease options off of ebay and I ended up selling the same house four times. In fact i very close to pay off the same house with the option consideration fee. I would sell it on ebay I would fedex over the Whatever they agreed on and then they'd stay for like six months eight months a year. They move out maybe fixed sweat equity but they wouldn't able to buy it so i turned back around and do it again. That's so crazy. 'cause i know i still remember looking at ebay and looking at real estate and then my mind. Every time i was like who the hell is buying real estate on ebay. I guess your clients in real estate. Yeah yeah pretty funny yeah. So how'd you go from all this to having four hundred doors. I mean it's yeah well so that's with a on syndication so through my partners and that's actually only happened within the last five years or so. Yeah eh because some point you connected with jason who recently had the show. Not boy sean. Terry yup another great friend and you got all these different relationships that you're leveraging yet i mean you got nationwide influence. I mean I remember like We're talking about you know the okay. See bill or whatever and they're like oh. You gotta talk to coy. who's cordoba. and it looks like everybody. So how'd you make all that happen and then talk about it. My allowed to ensure well so during s- about probably two thousand four. I realized that there was an opportunity coming. Because of seeing more and more people Buy houses that they couldn't afford he said onto four. I hope at that time people could foggy mary. Get alone right People were just spending money like crazy. Yes and i remember it was i sent out and this time. By this time i was sending out old yellow ugly yellow letters not a lot of them but some and this old lady called me and again i had no team has just me picking up film and she says hey. I got your letter I want you come out and take a look my house off my house. I said okay. We'll tell me about the house and was in edmond oklahoma which even now hot desirable area and a great great house. And she's telling me about it. And i was like okay. I mean there's no there's gonna be no equity in this house you know for sure enough. She got down to it and it was like how much you own the house. like one. seventy How much do you How much do you Think it's worth you know. One one sixty eight. You know something like that and i was like well. There's no equity. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I'm an investor and the way that we as a small business we have to have equity and wanna retail buyer. That's great takes a little time. She's like no no no the bank said just to come out and make an offer and i was like okay. The bank said she's like yes. Sorry come out and this kind of like an old ladies. I felt kinda bad. And i was like i'm just going to go out. And maybe say hi. And maybe she'll referred me somebody. So i went out and met her and sweden lady. Gosh she was great and the house is great. I think he's been better than i thought. I thought there's no way. I'm gonna you know she was like well. Can you make an offer on it. And i was like you're not gonna like it. She's like just just make an offer. I think in a offer a like it was like eighties and something like eighty seven thousand or eight thousand five thousand. I really don't remember the number but if something like that something low and didn't expect it is going to hear her hear from her again. Like the next day. I get a call from her and she says hey Remember me yeah. of course. couldn't shed a great voice of the old little old lady voice and she said well You mean offer in the house and she said Well i've got the bank on the other line. Anyone talk to you about it. I was like you had the bank online. She's like yeah so k. Patch through and the lady comes on and she goes. Can i speak to corey and loss mitigation and you never you know there's moments in life where it's like this. The clouds open up and the sun shines down and this realization. Something you just goes. Oh my gosh. I see i see the future. I see where things are going to go. And i said this is corey in loss. Mitigation you know not not having a loss mitigation department at all. I mean you. The las vegas loss mediation. She said yeah. You made an offer you know. Eighty seven whatever. But we're not willing to accept it you know she's a but we are going to. We will be except Except you can pay us like a couple of thousand more so those days they were actually telling you. If you remember this will tell you what. They're willing to accept a lot easier. Yeah of course we're talking about short sales so I ended up buying. That house made more money on a house. That had no equity than i haven't any other transaction i've ever done my life wholesaling Anything rehabbing more money and had no equity. And i just remember if i can do at once what what would happen if i focused on this right. See i'm moral. I shall find more of them so that changed the game it. I turned off everything else. And i just started focused on houses had no equity. Yeah so it's just a four. Yeah two thousand seven. Yeah so two thousand four or five thousand huge headstart. Yeah yeah. What'd you do with information. Gosh so if you want to compress it. I ended up getting better at it. I looked online. Nobody's really talking about it. But there's a there's a thing called Easy hud. You can go back and look at this. It used to be like a. It's a blog. chris. Dagel iran at Previous successful investor himself and I was just going on their answering questions to some people are starting to ask questions about. Hey what happens when you got like a i morgan second more. How do you get out you know. Can you create equity. And i was like. Oh i i've done that. Oh you make them compete. Oh you get them on the line together and You know by this time. I've been i was doing quite a few short sales and getting them approved and i ended up answering kris told me this one day I understood. I like twelve hundred posts on easy. Hud dot com and so he he contacted me and like do you want to be a moderator. Do you want to cause you're answering all the questions. I was like sure. That's great so. I kind of started getting a little bit of Corey's the the short guy kind of thing then and then in town in oklahoma city We started to do These little events versus like shoney's and then it kinda got a little western says lynn and then he got a little bigger and bigger and Chris had me on. Ask answering questions stuff dago. And then one time he said. Why don't you just make a course once you just make a Sorts of course and I don't. I don't wanna make a course because i i i remember thinking like you mean like like one of those guys on tv. Like i really. He was like yeah. He's like i know. I bought off ebay. You know like. I didn't look at myself as like the reluctant guru. And he's like no man if you make one We'll do a webinar. And this was a brand new concept. Really nobody was doing webinars and He said if you make one would women. I think we'll do really well. So i built the course and it took me. It took me every bit of six months to do it. I mean it was over three hundred pages of blood sweat and towards. It was to not one to massive. You know i called the call. It's called lumpy mail or whatever to huge things of Binders with cd's and dvd's right and it's called short sale fundamentals. That course went on to sell over. Twenty five hundred courses We charged Fifteen hundred dollars for the course in the beginning and then we ended up getting down front. Eight hundred bucks. We did a webinar with chris and on one webinar ended up selling over fifty thousand dollars in an hour and a half. And i just remember thinking that this is going to be the way the future of courses and and an education and and all of that and sure enough it was there was another event came out called v. i s. virtual investing seminar. Remember this or not and then virtual investing seminar two and basic idea. That real estate is going to be moving more to the internet. We're going to be going to the internet to find. Instead of realtors. Going to go into the internet i to look for deals to find information and That's about right. And so that's why did i just started to focus all on short sales and then i thought you know i'm doing these deals. It makes sense to have a loss. mitigation company. Finally cory finally medication. Finally i got by the way whenever i talked to. My attorney said what's it take for me to have a many medication apartment. He goes a stroke of a pen. Yeah that was kind of fun. And i can with jason so badly and i met love. Medley actually noon before collective genius. He had this thing called visionary and funny story if he's listening to he'll laugh but You know i didn't know this. But he had to tell me later. He basically bought he bought a short so fundamentals course he actually went through it And did deal made over thirty. G's on it. And when we met each other he was going to basically say i was one of your testimonial But really he wanted to work together to transactional fund some of our our clients were building up. But it's funny when we met each other It was it was he's going to be a testimonial average year list to sell his services. This thing called shorts. Zoology man that was that was my sorry started building short. Zoology building building a huge email. List you now building. Emails and e mails and emails and medley was doing the same thing with visionary so it sounds like he was trying to do with you now with genius. Actually your data these good reasons. I mean for good reasons right now. But that's that's funny. Funny how they all work together. Yeah and then along the way. You may sean terry sean i met at. I want to say it's at preston. Ely back in the day preston He added thing called Freedom soft now rob that swanson And he's done a lot things since but He had freedoms impressed him was doing a big event. I event actually met preston ely though at virtual bussing seminar but anyway so i met shawn at Preston burst event in. I won't say it was in san diego and they amarah was out there and ended the fulfill on the back into coaching on november. Sean i met. And i always hear more about sean about doing a podcast. You just kind of doing these podcasts. And i had a. I had a hundred thousand dollar Consulting program called the fifty two week apprentice program and he was like. I've never done six-figure consulting. You know how you talk about. That on the podcast. Yeah so if you go back and listen to podcast you can hear that. Yeah yeah it's it's it's crazy man How things just history. So you. And i had this conversation a while ago and we're talking about coaching coaching right I get people. Ask me all the time. can you coach me like. Oh yeah the prices are coachee right right. But it's always group coaching doug. No i want one on one is like. I don't have time for one right right if you want coaching. He's going to. Have you got to be group. Coaching right and no. It's got to be one on one. And i said well i mean it was gonna be one on one it's gonna pay would is it. It's a hundred thousand and to this day have knock on that But i ask you why shit that last around and you've done yes all right. So here's the question. I have is Because actually talked to tom about this. Don't talk to jack bosch about this you right. I don't question whether we're worth it right. Right what a question is. Can we deliver enough. And actually we also talked about this Jason boosie right. Can you do this in a situation where it makes sense for both parties And there's not too much burden I guess on both parties right so expand on that so it was for me heart. It was a mindset thing Like i was getting a certain dollar amounts for certain things. And then i just got to a place where You know like you start considering what your time is and what you're doing and you know and i thought you know what would happen if i decide basically sent out something to my list. That said i'm thinking about offering. This program is gonna be ridiculously expensive. And i think too i learned this from was frank kern. I i wanna say this. Dan kennedy but kennedy frank. It does a good job. One of one of those rank or wouldn't call john. Carleton framed definitely. Sounds like franklin thing. Yeah and i just got out of a program with ebon pagan called I think it was called. Get altitude or something in basic. That was a ten thousand dollar person that went to we got that event. I was but every person or evan pigging. he's renowned. he's he's had some great programs. He's one of the incredible in his mastermind group. He actually we did interview together. And for those guys talking about coronary deacon alba information marketing right now completely different in real estate but relevant compensation. Get on youtube and looking at the pain. Yeah i mean. The guy's incredible so he was running a eighty million dollar business from virtual assistance. He literally just had tons of virtual assistance Anyway he's he's an organizational master and all this other stuff but he had a program and get out to in charge ten thousand dollars a head to come and i think it was just like why. Why don't you just put it out there and see who would be interested and i did not think that anybody would be so. I was in europe. Like why would. Why would somebody want to do that. And then i had to start thinking about what if they said yes deliver value. What am i going to do. So i came up with a fifty two week apprentice program so one week one hour every week for fifty two weeks. Now if you miss it it's on you five mess it than og. Make sure you get it but if you miss it or not. It's on you. So it's a disciplined thing. It's also a filtered out thing so we're you're not taking on anybody write a check. Usually the right a fifty thousand dollar check now and then forty one sixty six for the next months basically but they So what i do. Is i sent it out. I said just ridiculous. Expensive pushing back right. I got like five people to apply an add up five ended up accepting too. Yeah yeah and so how so. The question basically is what are you gonna do to deliver the value. Well you the funny thing is. We had a conversation about a year. Not listening to music but listening to coaching listening to real estate and personal development. And all these other things right. That's well is over ten thousand hours you know. We don't think about what value that we actually have to to deliver. We don't think about what that's worth another person right and the right person will so i'll just say like this. Some people have more money than they. time they won't buy didn't by any of your courses before not the five hundred thousand dollar. Not the whatever fifteen hundred dollars. They didn't go to your boot candidate but all of a sudden you say it's going to be you and i we're gonna be talking once a week for fifty two weeks That resonates with them. Yeah well the guy that values are third their time or the money and because i actually have my around the same time to talking brennon simmons and he was like did you. Don't know the guy that just sold out of tech companies have three million xactly. He's got time he doesn't have to do with it. I had the abitur to. It's someone that usually has some type of inheritance they did or they sell the company or insurance. I had some insurance which it can kind of like an arts and money. Then they have. Yeah brian he was on the show two months ago right. I'm tired of insurance. This sucks brian's cool. He's an incredible guy. Yeah all right. Mark guy to both of those guys alex. So i don't know how long ago but it seems like it wasn't that long ago you went nationwide yay november of last year. I'll tell you how long long all right yeah walk me through this process. What was the thought process like. You're an okay see you doing well doing well doing incredibly well and like military. Yeah go nationwide. Yeah sean terry. Another good friend of mine. Obviously a business partner in the parts. you're listening. get off my youtube ads. Sean mentioned that he was doing some virtual things It's working out pretty well and remember. Kobe march twenty law changes happened. You know fuelling change uncertainty. Yeah what's what's going to happen now. You can't go and member in oklahoma. it's just a good old boy so you go meet the people and you look the i shake their hand you know. Now we move to a primarily virtual model to continue going So because of that. I thought well if we're going for just doing it. Virtually now for a period of time. While would stop us from just doing it in another state But i didn't want to recreate the wheel. I didn't wanna do those things. So china has conversation. I just found some of the tools and things you use the way he's doing it and nick perry another guy Never monster has been on the show monster it's up next he He's also doing the virtual model Think now corey. Gary which worked with shaun probably doing as well another monster But really we just wanted to see you know what would it look like To do the virtual outside of oklahoma and the other side of it was in oklahoma. Our spreads have gone up. You know nine thousand ten thousand eleven thousand twelve that were over twelve thousand hundred average deal size and the the wire from the cup from the title company and i started seeing some of these spreads that were in north carolina south carolina washington airland for sure washington maryland. Utah a las vegas arizona and You know it's twelve thousand times four five six sometimes even more than that. That was intriguing to me. You know. shawn's like man. We're going to close this deal. Make hundred like i've never. I've been doing it for a while now. I've never made over one hundred thousand dollars on one on one wholesale deal. Let me i gotta just figure it out. I can't be that hard and Yeah so we went november. We had i bring on another to acquisition people fulltime person Trends are a lead manager. Which has been instrumental and We we've done pretty well so far. And i'm continuing to to learn and i really liked the model because you can be anywhere literally to do it. You need to have a good team. That's very important but you can be anywhere and yeah so glad nationwide almost all. Ppc what we do is we do ppc. And then we drop a little bit of mail in in some hot kind of hot spots Yeah okay so like ninety nine percent. Pvc yes or percents. Eric lee comes in probably nine ninety five and five percent. Yeah all right. So lee comes in yup generally calling or web form. Yes but which which. One is more usually buffy fifty probab- Prob more web form than call. So phone comes in goes. Va goes lead manager because aleve energy. I'm telling you the lead manager part is so important. Okay is now because of the first person that person talks to it but like as opposed to just go into like pat live or another the well. You know it isn't actually. You could still do deals that way. You're just losing a lot of opportunity right and you're wasting your team's time you ain't slippage slippage so now what we do is we have a process when it comes in it has to pass these filters in order to green light to be assigned to an acquisition manager got it and that has saved so much time because before we just have it go to a lead the came in and they'd have to get on the lead you know build a reporter and this and that and you don't even know if that lead is really worthy of spending the time to get top salespeople gotcha so lead manager very good in house acquisition your virtually obviously There okay see so lock them up. Lock them up. How's the disposition. You know it's pretty cool. We have been Two ways okay. To us one is going to realtor dot com. Find the best agents and saying lesson got a house getting buyers. No i don't oh well susie which is the one. That's right below her on realtor dot com. I guarantee they know each other. I think she might have one susie. Sorry you're let me let me see. I'll get back with you. So that's one way the other way is using the comey broker lous and they're a nationwide Flat fee mls service and there's other ones flat in charge two hundred bucks and you can actually get the property on molest now. Here's what's interesting. There's some states. I know people listening right now especially agents brokerages. You cannot list property that you don't own on. Mls some states actually say as long as it's in your agreement then you have your okay to other states say you need to have the listing. Signed by the homeowner right. Yeah oklahoma texas but the interesting thing is if you're able to and this isn't just you know none an attorney so but i've talked to several attorneys and i don't like the word no one attorney said you can't do it. One tourney actually says a legal. And i said show me case law. He couldn't do it. The other ones said. Well it's frowned upon. it's like. I'm perfect with frowned upon. I'm fine with brown upon gerrymander. Can we do it. Yeah entrepreneurs they're not real far is typically so We found a way to and then We've had some success doing that Because obviously the market right now super hot. And everybody's there's a shortage of inventory if you're if you are good at marketing i mean if you spend the time to learn marketing you will always. I feel like you always be successful. Yeah there's there's there's people that cannot stand tomorrow and then there's people that love. Yeah i know. I love the market right. Part is but there's some people that can't stand it really but guess what they want to work with. You can't so in fact in for the last half and we we've had probably almost a four year ago another company in oklahoma city. Good friends Known longtime. they had a cool company. They were doing pretty well. Noperation side but they just really didn't have much of the budget to market and didn't really know how to market. Well we ended up working together. Jv together said all spend all the money in the marketing. You run operations will will split the deal for the last almost four years. That's what we've been doing. And so we've had a lot of success with that and also that's actually another reason for the for the virtual model for the national selling because they're they're kind of partnership broke up in june of two thousand twenty so member that that that money has been coming in now having to spend the money. But the money's been coming in without having to really go out there and do the operation side. Yeah and he'll both of us but now that they split up you know now now that's going away you know that's a good percentage of money so that was another thing i needed to do to fill out. So how's how many are you doing monthly nationally. And then what does that equates you as far as revenue. Yeah so we're we have so one one vision for the for the team is one hundred thousand dollar net weeks nationally. That's the vision. We are not there we just. We're right now. We're just we're just. I mean we're national right now. We're we're probably Maybe one hundred thousand dollars a month right now got it. But we're we're learning things and we're getting better now. That was interesting. That's now right. That was actually pretty good for for oklahoma right. But i see the national thing going so much faster. Quick mec- nick raising a month. And i i don't actually see it's not that hard i mean once you put things in place it's not hard to get there. I mean it's a math game. You spend more money in marketing. You're going to get more deals. Great about marketing sturgis marketing. As long as you know how to market and you don't waste money. Yeah because you can waste a lot on the other thing you to on. Ppc john though the whole lot more but we also have a good ppc team that you have to be on it daily. Yeah i just. I just told nick i said nick. I figured out something nick. Perry I want you to see something. And i hope you don't get upset about it. He's like what i was like. I spent like twelve thousand dollars on india and he was like what i was like. Yeah all my guys. Take care of that okay. But if they didn't here's a screen. Here's here's what i did. Here's what has shown actually got a google rep. The show me this. So i wasn't that smart google rip said you realize you're spending money in south africa and india and and i was like no i didn't but it wasn't just on Excluding wasn't that which everybody thinks. Just exclude it. No there's that other part of it that's a that's a called a matched distance thing or something along those lines and what you have to go. Get that on their way does. Ppc right now. You may be be spending your. You might be spending tens of thousand dollars on indian south africa and other countries and it's just waste. I dunno does the same thing. But there's excluding right and it's also including and including his people that you think might be looking at market and that's what i'm guessing what you're talking about people looking in your market when who the hell knows how google's figured out what they may be looking in your market. Yeah this google which obviously is very smart with google. They pointed out now. He's sick in my stomach. Well at least they told you now versus a year from now absolutely So what do you target doing. What is it that. You're targeting on. Pay per click. We work with a nationwide Titled company Which in oklahoma. With lincoln tyler amazing But nationwide's different story so company called clothesline title and they closed in like thirty five. Thirty seven states need to kind of add in some. They don't do it in texas. They don't do it in california. Felt fidelity's in california But you know so. We're kind of targeting. Those states that they want close. We're we're excluding right now illinois even though we get some leads still malinois. North dakota south dakota west virginia just because of certain harder to questions with cris chico. He talks about on facebook just a little state. If they just forget city forget distance forget h like just just a state to start the state. Yeah is that what you're doing. No okay so what is your strategy. We find hot markets and we go through and look at cash transactions and i look at heat maps that are in those particular areas and Put put a bigger emphasis on those And then whenever we get like midland. Texas for example or mckinney texas or One we disclosed in In gadsden alabama where it whereas gats alabama but pretty hot market for cash buyers are coming in and you know that unless you know you work with an agent that says semi less that wrote all your cash transactions. So you've got to have a strategy on where you're targeting that is going to give you a better bang for your buck and then once you identify where that is. That's when you can also all not all in but go deeper with dropping some chips in the middle. Yeah yeah so. Because i love seeing you random posts of like who has a buyer in some city. Hawaii who's got a buyer is city north carolina. We gotta deal in juneau alaska. You wouldn't believe it. There's hot hot market. I love your senior posts. Just a random post from corey about right who has a buyer in some city. That i've never heard it. You know it's funny all also post on there if you have if you're buying in You know just a state know if you're buying anywhere in North north carolina right now semi a dam on the county that you focus in an. I may be able to give you a lead. Yeah so what happens from that as you get these top buyers cash buyers earnings things that now. Here's what's interesting. I'm not typically selling to those cash buyers. And i see if i can get a retail buyer right which is the mls or realtor dot com. But you always want to have that person that that you know by it real quick so i like to have kinda both sides right and right now quite frankly you can just sell houses at the top of the mark anything that comes in right now through colorado or i mean is just. You'll get fifty offers in one day in thirty or forty thousand dollars over asking. Jason author was just talking to him yesterday. He's an austin texas all of the california buyers coming to austin he's working hundred thousand over although like if it's ridiculous the way he's coughing property now or net copying pricing the solid properties. Right hundred thousand over zillow and all and he also said. There's a disclaimer for Appraisal contingent wave offers waiver waiver. Yeah in california okay But speaking of senior post one of the things. I always enjoy. Is your your your raynham posts. That have to do with just about anything. Not even real estate thing. Whatever check this out. Yeah so you're obviously very fascinated with kind of like i don't know leading edge but actually believing is the right word but then you always looking down the road railway. Yeah yeah so talk about that in future pacing and and you know I think that's important To be able to be relevant and You know. I'm i like to be a little bit of a futurist I like to see kind of things. You're are going Whether they say ring wayne gretzky skate. Where the puck's going not where it is right right And and also just to to build That level of not just relevance with your audience but just just in general of being able to not post everything always real estate has an element that you're that you're not just you know you're not dislike. This people tend to elevate like you. You may not know it or not but people elevate you. They put you on a on a on a pedestal. It puts you because you have a thought platform got it so if all you start doing is talking about you know you're coaching your your sales people and you're all you're doing. Is that right. Then they think. Oh my god that's if i don't talk about coaching or my sales people or if i don't have anything to you know to contribute they don't they don't look at you like you're just a regular person right but when you post pictures with your family and your kids and your your you know those things and make people laugh and you know you post those You know those those not seines and it makes people go. Steve's a real person right and i can relate so i guess the word would be. I'm looking at being relatable. Yeah well i love reading it. Because then i don't have to research. Corey is like my go-to guy. Here's what's coming down the pike. What's coming down the road. But i think also kind of relates to 'cause i i. I'm having a little year expense over the weekend. I was looking at your phone. Holy crap right took a picture posted on facebook and there is so much anxiety from so many. Where's the karen. He's a great there. It's all organized right and that. That was a joke. I was like it was just like when your mom clean your room when you're younger mom. Where'd you put it like. it was it was. I had a place for it. I know your mask. I know but it was place for it. It was organized so about half of the apps on my phone We're from a mobile business as a part of Game apps and and i was helping consult marketing for them and i had to download Apps and so. I got half of them on there but then i just ended up having folders and just seem. Yeah so it doesn't bother me that much as people see it. I'm just so blind to. They're like a post did get a lot of comments. I mean there are a lot of people that needs to be you know. We're we touched a moment but we didn't really get to in depth into it. You mentioned syndication for those are the people that are listening because we have a broad range of listeners. Okay what is indication. So syndications pretty cool. It's basically where you will find some kind of asset that you're trying to raise money on and instead of list issues five million dollars so you're going to buy five million dollar apartment complex and and this was an aha moment for me to learning about apartments. You're like what am i gonna come with five million bucks. I don't have it what's cool. Is that a bank will. Loan usually about seventy to eighty percent on that. If it's a good asset so thinking about that like you can buy. You can buy a five million dollar apartment complex again. People have semi listen. You're like this might basic word. But this was an a ha moment for me. You can buy five million dollar apartment complex and the bank is going to bring you three point five to four million dollars so all you have to do is raise one point. Five million dollars right. I don't have that either. Oh okay well. What do you do you can syndicate. You can create basically that one point five or list issues. That one million at the bank's gonna bring eighty percent Nelson's one point five brings gonna bring Seventy percent and there's one point five year raising. You can look at one point five and divide it up as you're one hundred percent and you can say i'm going to split seventy percent and thirty percent. Seventy percent can be for. Lp limited partners in thirty percent can be your gp general partners or gentle partners get equity lp usually just gets you know breath and return are so a syndication basically if you do a five zero six. C has accredited investors. Only in a five zero six be can be non credit investors up to a certain Certain amount you have certain amount of credit but you can also unaccredited investor which kind of like mom and pop right now again. I'm not an attorney. So you know but you cannot really generally purpose advertise for five or six be versus. You can minor stain on five or six e until they make some these changes. So point of syndication is you can raise that. Other one point five million by bringing other investors in and giving them a piece of it based on the press and also getting a return on their money they might put in fifty grand a hundred grand. Well now guess what now you need is fifteen people giving you fifteen or given you a now you need is a fifteen people giving you one hundred thousand dollars right well. You don't need that 'cause you got another thirty percent of. Here's now you only need like maybe ten people giving you hundred thousand dollars that's called syndication so you're going to buy it with your investors And then you're going to grow it usually over a three to five year period of hold. And if you're buying it where it's non-performing there is more risk but they're usually greater upside right if you're buying it performing which is what i've done my two It's not going to be as much upside but it's going to be bet it's going to be a little bit more listening to be less risky because you already got money as taking care of the debt right that certainly getting a service right but it's pretty exciting because you can buy something at a higher cap sell it at a lower cap and make millions of dollars and the cool thing is you can also do a cost. Sag which i've done and you could actually make a lot of money. They have a negative kate. One you know which is really cool right. I was talking to michael bolton about that migrate guy. Yeah because i was complaining him and my tax situations like. Oh you should just go one hundred indications like. Oh that's all. I have to do marcus apartments. And he's he's amazing he's one of the best. There is when it comes to knowing exactly what you need to do with your money. Yeah especially with apartments Not departments but single-family too. But just like you need to get into mobile home the development. I mean he just has these different insights. See the bigger picture of all these different investors. He's telling me you can do eighty percent of acquisition on a mobile home person So i got you know. Hypothetically we're in this podcast video in this building leasing as for sale right now. Five point eight. Okay so all i need to do is go. Raise thirty percent of that and i said well almost two mill and then the bangle finance asas indication. Yeah and that's cool about that. Man is that you might have a higher loan for just like couple years it especially but this is going to be performing so you actually get a. You can get better Lending better better. Better opportunity and lenny lower rates sooner than someone that has a nonperforming that pen to pay you know. Eight eight percent seven percent for two years and then they changed around and refinance it right pull money out tax free you say again pool money out tax free. Refinance proceeds are not taxable income taxable. Income almost feels almost like free money. It feels like free money and we all have a business partner. A silent business partner and that is uncle. Sam if you look at all your expenses even higher. The pay paper click. It's uncle sam. Yeah you gotta figure out a way to utilize the opportunity for tax code. And i'm not. I'm not expert. But i know people that are experts and they can. They can help you. Essentially be smarter and not have to pay tax. It's not massaging is that cheating is taking advantage of the tax code written by wealthier people than us to benefit them. And we're just using those same exact loss go on the. Irs website and it actually encourages you to start an llc to pay less taxes does it. It is crazy but just most people don't realize just starting to single member. Llc in it's just by that itself it doesn't take much free to do it. Maybe five hundred thousand dollars some places but usually less than a thousand just doing that alone can change the game for you. Expenses me written off you pay less money. And he's just game changer. so going nationwide. What is your monthly marketing overhead. Nationwide right now. We're at with all fixed expenses and everything around forty thousand a month hefty. Yeah and then. What is your total monthly expenses between everything everything Were at six hundred thousand six hundred twenty or a yearly. Sorry so that's fifty fifty monthly. Yeah so so slow rough but you closing deals cousin deals so for you and your business. Is there anything like if you'd be freaking out whether it's a tool crm something insists on process. We're hearing texting is kind of going some interesting direction. What is something for you like man. I can't live without this paper. Click right now like you if you don't i mean paper because direct mail has been. It's been harder and harder on that. We were doing fifty thousand pieces of mail for months and months. I mean for years and years and years and just in oklahoma city and whenever that start drying up especially during kobe. I mean you have to find a source that will give you. You can turn foss turn law. People don't realize that google is smarter than you. Facebook is smarter than you. You know you can go down to the county and get You know try get these lease tax liens and you can get your list there. That's fine you can go and lists or as you can. You can do create things. Aaron going props dream get list there. you know you list ability you know adam data and the list goes on all these different lists you know but none of it is going to be as good as paper. Yeah in terms of how targeted that they can bring somebody someone that says. I want to sell my house. Now right you got some super-motivated. Yeah so i guess the question then for you in those other markets is. Do you have people. Are you in less competitive. Markets because like phoenix. Yeah there's a few people there on google right now. Yeah a lot so so yeah phoenix. Yeah so kind of serie. Martyr markets say right Is is tends to be a little bit Better opportunity got what keeps you going. What is your way. What is my why my why is am i. What do i wake up every day. And i'm excited about the next day And my wi- has to do with sound weird but there's some you know what is in is in that presentation that we saw some people want to want to Get as big and just an intriguing. Just swing for the fences and knock home runs. You know and and they want to do that in their business they wanna grow huge business right But i don't think you have to know you don't because i know a guy that was running A ten million dollar your business and he was netting five hundred thousand dollars here and he's run ten million dollars on this many blind business and stink in like couldn't you run a three million dollar business. Make five hundred thousand absolutely could cut run two million dollars make business fire. I think sometimes we get so excited about building the skyscraper because in grandeur we were building member link lincoln logs. Do you remember lincoln long. Stint kindergarten lena higher. You know you go up and you try to get excited about Building something so big but we forget about why we're doing it empha- my wi- has to do with i in At the end of two thousand twelve. I was I says into thousand. Twelve a buddy mind john cochran ni- we went through some incredibly heavy things in my life. I don't think i've told you the story man You know. I grew up in I grew up in oklahoma. And it's the bible belt. And i've been a christian per big point of my life and i've been a big part of my life but was i was whenever i was selling those courses and Shorts courses and that was building his business. I even talk about the software company having a pretty high software company to for short cells. And i was on the road. Just go and see stages and selling because good at selling up selling but i I neglected my wife and That ended up costing my marriage and was going through a I went through a pretty heavy time. I had quite a few rentals at that point. Back my I didn't have a quote retirements my retirement. What i call wallet houses. And i had some houses that were paid free and clear when i ended up getting divorced i got all my assets cut in half and it it. It nearly killed me. I mean nearly in nearly took me out not not like suicidal but like my turney said man. You should just clear bankruptcy and just start over. I didn't but I thought you know. As long as i go. Make money off. Take care. Because i don't have the college education to fall back on and so i gotta go make it happen. During that time. I was also at my church. Help helping praise and worship and our pastor married my wife and i. He was caught in scandal between him and another guy swapping partners and i was at this church for several years and You know This was happening when i found out that he was also counseling. Us when we were going through a divorce so you have to under understand like there's things happening in my cup. My i'm getting divorced on top of that. My business partner. This is like this. Not even the cherry on top my business partner which i should have done a better job. I should have been a dare bob dylan due diligence on business partner. But he was very good on have an operation stuff lined up and i was very good on the marketing. I knew i could bring customers. He could run it in the back end. And he's done this stuff for a while. So i thought he's going to be a good partner but anyway my business partner splitting up from the short sell business Some losing my business. I'm losing my marriage and on top of that. I'm getting counseling. And my pastor. Who i have my my spiritual reverence might foundation. If you will your herb your and my relationship with the lord is a joke. I don't think i've ever said that publicly ever. I'm telling you my heart. I felt like christianity with joke. Top of that so on top of that buddy of mine decide in two thousand twelve. We're going to go. And he had a relationship breakup so i had a relationship progressive. I'd just need to decompress. I need to get away. We're going to go to hawaii and skip winner. Skip it we meet up in vegas. We go to dinner. He looks over at my throat and says brown. What's that lump on your throat throat. Some went to the bathroom looked at it. Sell want but didn't think anything of it flew to vegas of course mainland freaking out about it so good emergency care they give me some kind of something said take it for ten days doesn't go away then i go do. What's called a fine needle aspiration. Fema and then you wait two days. Go by i get a call from the doctor. And i can still remember steve just like you're sitting there and that's john and i'm studying near across the table and that doctor gets on the phone he says hey gonna speak with boca hands being. He said well. I got news for you not managed. Well hope i don't have cancer. And he goes. I'm sorry to say. Do you have roy carcinoma cancer and is it stage two and it's very serious and i'm sorry whatever plans you have but they need to be cancelled encourage you to go get your things in order to get this taken care of things in order as in documents documents whatever it is. He gave me a first class. Whenever that happens. You get a free first class. You don't know you have first class ticket back home so think about this. we're skipping. We book things in maui. All canceled so i feel like my friend down. I've lost tons of money because you can't get back on top of this. I'm gonna have to top my my mom. The freaking ledge whichever she hears about this so I ended up going getting surgery and had our economy into two thousand twelve and it was like one of the best surgeries. The surgeon said he'd ever had and but during that process i had to reevaluate and things and i had this moment of regret. I'm gonna share this real quick because this is the thing that changed everything on what my why i might go back to that. It's a long answer so just work with me. I had a vision or dream that That my brothers called me in the middle of the night and they said hey brother gusty said. Hey man don't want don't want to Alert or anything but mom died right so up to that point. I've been traveling doing all these things. My mom literally lives. And i moved her from my hometown weather for to oklahoma city. My mom literally lives maybe ten miles away from me less than that. And sometimes there'd be months proud this man but there'd be months did not go by to spend time with my mom and my excuse was too busy too busy. Go back to that vision. Brother says mom night. I sit up in bed in my vision. I start shaking uncontrollably. I i dropped the phone. And all i could think about was regret. That's it that's all i could think about was. I'm not gonna have opportunities to ask the things to talk to about my dad. My dad passed. When i was very young so i had a lot of conversation. I want to ask about him and she was mary. Kay woman and you know. Just amazing thing. She did and i thought later. Talk about those things. We'll have time just gonna do my thing now and she's the woman's whereas like you're busy no problem. No no. she doesn't even she loves you. But now i don't i don't have that opportunity bro. In so in. It's gone. And i regret so. Wake up and my god. That was a dream. Pet freaked me out so much that i call my mom as like two thirty in the morning and she picks up the phone and she's like hello and i said hey lie call me late. I need us be quiet for a second. Because i got some on my heart. Any tell you are you okay. I said fine. Just need you to don't say anything did get this off my chest. Yes you sure. Some fun. And i said first off. I apologize for being a bad son. Pimm working. i've been doing my thing. I thought it was the right thing to do. But i haven't spent time with you. And i love you care about you but i just hope crappy is showing it like. You wouldn't be able to tell them. Actions club you don't have to find your find us it. Just don't say anything. I said the great news is it's never going to happen again from now on every sunday. I'm entail you. And i are going to go breakfast. We're going to go to church or in. Just drink some coffee few hours and you don't have a say in it. Are you sure you're okay. Fine yeah bro. So surgery happens And mom and i start spinning every other every sunday together and at the beginning of tough because my mom would save up a whole week worth of stuff and then just like vomited out for the whole couple hours so it was rough and god just spoke to me. This isn't about you. it's about her so just like she repeats something or whatever. Just be cool with it. Just enjoy the moment. Because i had regret bro. I'll tell you if i get the call right now am Mom passes away. My heart would be hurt. The zebra regret. Yeah and there's no price you can put on them zero zero price. Yeah so my why has to do with being grateful. Every day as i going through my When i got through my surgery. I started to write down a reason every day to be grateful i started post day one. I'm grateful for my from my hands day to rape from a feat. They threw him grateful for my hair from my fingers Just a reason to be grateful everyday to have consistency. Because i was getting depressed because here i am speaking making money for living selling things and i can't even talk like six months because you know And it was. It was crazy on top of that. Short sales were changing. And now a lot of the deals that we had in the hopper because the how things were changing where requiring these season you could market it all these different things. So i was losing deals was like you know what. Why don't i just shut down. The loss mitigation. Why don't i just stopped. Undershorts sales right now and just focus on wholesales because that was like the low hanging fruit and didn't really have to go out there and speak about it or anything and you could do okay so i just started doing to start focusing on Just doing wholesaling and up until when we started doing the syndication departments. That's kind of the road that we've been a boring kind of wholesaling business up to that point. I dunno boring. So that's your why. My wife is being grateful everyday. Bro and the reason why i wanted i wanted you know. That's the reason why. Because i don't wanna have any regrets and see it though i can oppose right like think gratitude day whatever misnomer behind chuan and now i know why So then on the flip side of that is what is your biggest struggle right now. My biggest struggle is you know. Sometimes is easy to see all these special being part of collective genius. You see all these amazing huge businesses growing and building you know and you find yourself comparing yourself like. I'm not air brewer. I'm frigging nobody else. I'm not i'm steve. I'm freaking nobody. Well the good news is. I'm looking at frankovic breakfast tomorrow. Frank's kicking my button frankovic. I'm not fradkov a nobody I think that has to do with basically saying like you're comparing yourself to where they wanna go. But what is it you wanna go. I don't wanna be mcdonald's. I don't have any desire to have a hundred million dollar business and zero desire. Some people do but it's not in me. Yeah i think jason medley talked about this too. It's like you you make more like two hundred forty thousand dollars next. Spend a year you can. You can pretty much do a lot of things go by yacht or some- jet or something. I don't care about that. Was the conversation. I was on Some of the time went by in a jet. Yeah i mean it's it's cool but like i. I was at a place when i was doing that. Short sale business. We had a mil- million a lot of money coming in big overhead and you can do like cool things and i did a lot of cool things but like maybe because i did some of those cool things early on like i don't desire third to do so much now and i really just my struggle. I guess my struggle is you know i still want. I don't want i to find myself comparing myself just because someone else's building this big business doesn't mean i need to right and as clarity right. And that's a challenge for all of us especially being alpha males What is your superpower superpower. I think someone that knows me would say my superpower is connecting and Probably encouraging words about formation. Words mean a lot to me Ablaze words have power. And i just there's a word called advocacy which is powerful because it basically means that you see something and someone else that they don't see themselves and i think by consulting and working with people that i've been been able to see some of that and it's powerful to to see to see encouraging him to move towards that then probably extracting as well giving them to maximize it. Yes yeah awesome and has some very kind words raise like inquiries here like you'll get additional help that you didn't even those last question. What book have you gifted more than any other. What book had gifted more than any other probably say How to win friends and influence people. I said lines up a lot with your style. i mean i just. The book is revolutionary. I mean it's just an unreal book mirror matching. It's just incredible book. Yeah awesome all right. So guys if you get value today. Please like subscribe share comment. I ask this because that's what youtube and all these other algorithms. What is google wants to see so you guys enjoy. Please help me get the message out. We're trying to create one hundred millionaires Last thoughts you want to leave the listeners. With remember you know. I wear this bracelet Which is grateful. And i started this thing on on access funny when we i started posting the reason to be grateful every day this guy They had a pretty big Following he saw it and start posting his group and we grew to like over. Four thousand members in the night of crazy called grateful project but Last thought is remember this. Your worst day is someone else's paradise. When i'm in the shower not the picture that when i'm in the shower now you just did. I shouldn't even set it. When i'm in the shower in that water running over you and if you say it over and over and over and over and over again your worst someone else. Paradise my worst day someone else paradise on worse throughout the day all the things that come up although they are challenges You'll just be so grateful that you have. Those challenges was nothing compared to other people outside of the plan. We have no. We build clean water wells for with charity water. And we have no idea what it's like if you're a parent to have their kid which people defecate in these little rivers and things and your kid is thirsty and you got find a way to get water to your kid in the only alternative that you have is defecated water or you have to put a thing on your head and bring food two miles because you don't have a way to bring food nourishment we're upset when the door dashes we're set. It's a little warm. dr pizzas. Cold piece is called so your worst as someone else's paradise remember gratitude. I i really think is the. I really think that. Empathy and gratitude is the currency for the next generation. It's got to be man. Yeah that's powerful. What its own wanted to get a hold of you. How would they do that. Yeah so they can go typing corey boat right r. rh t know. W for some reason. There's a there's a boat ride. W w in it. No w In corey ceo are y. No sorry about that steve. If you wanna learn about Coaching wholesaling particularly You can get a corey's coaching. Co are y s. coaching dot com and It just has a little quick video. Just ask a couple of questions if you're starting or whatever as a couple of questions super good fit and then on on insta. rei profits dot com. Which excited about really building this. This social media tiktok and all the other kong and pineda's and all this other stuff to see what's happening with that. I i do think social media is going to be very very powerful for the future and i don't wanna be necessarily left behind on it and i enjoy it to get left behind and if you guys want to learn about crypto you gotta you gotta corey. That's another podcast. You gotta be friends with corey because you learn everything. You need to know about crypto on chorus facebook post. Thank you preach. It's awesome man watching.

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GSMC Sports Podcast Episode 685: MLB Battles, Oklahoma is Waiting, and Clemson Loses Big Player

GSMC Sports Podcast

1:07:07 hr | 11 months ago

GSMC Sports Podcast Episode 685: MLB Battles, Oklahoma is Waiting, and Clemson Loses Big Player

"At this is your alternate staffer. Everything Sports, the golden state media, concepts or podcast. Should I say more from the NFL? MLB The NBA MMA. It's all in here. Golden state media concepts sports podcast listen. down. Gentleman at twelve them. spoke. At. PODCAST AT ONE, Guy? Jobs. On this. Is. Still now. July. Second. I, know this. Kind of. Logging around, but hey. Look on the bright side real quick. It's June second I live in the southeast and it's only. Let's see it's seventy five degrees right now, it's only seventy five degrees. was that is insanity usually by now? It's like eighty. No, it uses by now. It's like ninety five, and if you step outside, you immediately have to drink water, or you'll be dehydrated. All right look on the bright side. Where was this what I was? Working out doing football conditioning over the summer. Conditioning. It was. It was like. One hundred degrees humidity. Sucked, but it feels great outside. It looks great outside right now and I'm so happy I am right here doing this podcast for you guys right now instead of being outside, but now I'm joking of course I. Love doing this, but. We Have A. Pretty. Good show for you today we'll talk about the MLB battles between the players association and the MLB. There's been some threatening going on. There's a lot of. Uncertainty over the major league baseball season. Then we go to the other side of the coin where the NBA they are now dealing with stuff as trivial. As what playoff format should we do? They are fairly certain. They're coming back Then we'll go onto why the University of Oklahoma is waiting to bring athletes back onto campus, then topic five. We'll talk about Justin Ross. CLEMSON's Justin rose being out for the season, which is very unfortunate for him. We'll discuss that later, and then, of course, our draft review going to my favorite team by that I mean. The lovable losers! The Cleveland Browns Discuss if they're draft, actually help them or not. spoiler probably won't because the Cleveland Browns. Sorry to take shots at the Cleveland. Browns but It's just frustrating. Okay anyways, let's let's get to a pretty. We're GONNA. Start off with a pretty serious. Topic here. We're going to talk about these protests. These the black lives matter protests and the protest about the death of George Floyd. And I'm talking about it because it's kind of impossible to avoid you know. And also. I WanNa talk about it. Because it kind of came at the perfect time because I think, it's a good thing that there's no sports going on right now because. Nobody should be distracted by this issue. That I'm just going to start off with that. Around right now some people just be distracted and people will be complaining that athletes will be speaking out their minds because they should just focus on their sport. Well, because there's no sports, the athletes don't have to focus on training or focus on games or anything, so they can put all their social media clout in their following into good use to. Push this issue further along It is a big issue. In this country! If you don't think so then you just. Are Blind. I don't I don't want to I. Don't want to offend anybody or anything like that, but that's just how it is. We have an issue in this country and we are trying to fix it. I mean. Now, of course. I'm not okay with protests being violent. Of course. But from what I've seen from all the footage I've seen I've seen on social media I've seen footage of. Protesters. Or protesters is your say with air quotes. I've seen people just random people. Just a single person. Would be. Looting and rioting while everybody else is trying to stop them Then you'll see some where. No, it's completely peaceful protests and then. The police would in acts of violence to kind of kick everything off. I've seen some interesting things going on on twitter. The really the only thing I can really tell you just don't a hundred percent believe everything you see, some because there is a lot of misinformation on social media in general, just always take everything with a grain of salt, because in this day of age. We're in the day of misinformation. Where everybody says we're in the age of information. We're but also includes information. We're in the age of missing information. In my opinion, there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff. Going on and a lot of people don't know about, and there's a lot of stuff going on. That is just not right. So. It's. It's just one of those things. That we have to discuss and I think it's great that we don't have sports to distract. Because this is something that needs to happen. It just is we need. We need police reform we need. We need! We need just more out of. White people pretty much and I'm trying not to I'm trying not to bring this into too much. Of A. I'm not trying to bring this into deep of a conversation. Because I know. You're not here for this, you're. You're here for sports and I understand that I. mean you go to sports to distract you from life? You go to sports to argue about meaning stuff because it's meaningless. You'll want to argue about stuff that. Matters one hundred percent of the time, so you WanNa take an hour out of your day and listen to this podcast to argue about stuff that doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things I. Understand that because that's how I am, too. But this is. An issue. that. We have to deal with. And it needs to be dealt with now of course. I WanNa, do it peacefully I think everybody wants to peacefully. I mean that's what most of these protests are. And a couple of bad apples would cause. Chaos. And stuff like that so. That's pretty much all I'm going to say. I also just want to say it's not a political issue. I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to talk about this because it's political. This is not a political issue. This is a civil rights issue pretty much mean. Calling this a political issues like calling the civil rights act in the sixties a political issue. This is not a political issue. If you as political issue, that's a problem. Because this is not a Republican versus Democrat thing if you things are Republican Democrat thing then then. I know exactly what side you're. No offense. Because this is not a political issue. This is a human issue that we must deal with. That's why other countries around the world are also protesting about something that happened in America? Like. Why should Austrailia New Zealand all these? All these other countries that are protesting in their own countries care about what's going on in America. That's because it's a human rights issue. It's not it's not a is not a political issue. It's not a liberal versus conservative issue. This should be an issue that everyone should come together for. This is one of those. Bipartisan issues that you always. Always. Partisan issues. Wait! Sh shoot. Bipartisan partisan. Jeez. anyways you know what I mean. It's one of those issues that. Everyone should be able to come together and figure out a solution and the fact that we can't is an issue in its own and I've seen I've said issue a billion times, and that's mostly because I don't want to say any other words, but. But anyways like I said. We have a good show for you today we're GONNA be talking about MLB battles. We're GONNA be talking about the NBA potentially choosing letting their playoff opponent, leading their top teams choose playoff opponents that that will be discussed. We'll discuss why Oklahoma University is waiting. To let athletes back after the cove in Nineteen We'll talk about the terrible terrible terrible injury. Injury I. Guess It's more of a I. Don't know what it's called. It's just something that he. Apparently was born with and they found out about it. We'll talk about that. Later in the show, of course, we'll talk about the draft review of the Cleveland Browns. So. Sorry Sorry I mean there's only like a seven minute rant because I. did it like a two minute? Okay? Now I'm just kind of stalling until I. RE timeline for this topic, but. Sorry the rest of the show will strictly be about sports I will not bring. This up again. I just thought it was very important that I brought it up. First because more likely more people will listen to the first ten minutes than the rest of the show. I just wanted to bring it first and if you left because of this I, mean you're not listening right now, so oh, well, but. It's an important. It's important issue and we need to deal with it, and we need to come together and deal with it so that that's my viewpoint on it We'll talk about sports and stuff. That doesn't really matter. And will argue about stuff that doesn't really matter. When we come back from the break, we'll talk about Emma battles heating up as player pay. On about player pay, and how many games I'll play when we come back. Are you looking for the very best NFL and college football podcast, then check out the GSM see football podcast. Get the latest football news, both on and off the field from the NFL draft to treats to the rumor mill to the NFL combines. They've got you covered. That's GMC PODCAST DOT, com, backslash footfall dash podcast, get updates, college, rivalries, key insights, and much much more. It's football. Talk the way you want it. This show and sleeps briefs football don't forget to like on facebook and follow them on twitter visit. Yes, M. C. podcast dot com for more INFO. Major League. Baseball is having a huge issue going on right now with With the player pay We've discussed it before. these players they don't. They want to be paid in full full prorated rate because they know we're not gonNA play a full one hundred six two game season, but they want to be paid in full. prorated rate for how many games they play now. The issue is how many games should they play? There have been negotiations. There have been proposals, counterproposals and stuff like that. The owners originally wanted to play eighty one games, which is half of a half of a major league baseball season, but they weren't gonNA. Pay players the their full pro rated salaries. The players said Hey. How about you pay US appropriate salaries and then apparently the owners? Did Not like that and they want to they want to. The owners came back and said we pay you a prorated salary. Bulla play games so now the players are saying we should play more games and stuff like that so. There's proposal. No further negotiations is scheduled, and the clock is ticking for Major League Baseball. While the MLB is considering playing fifty odd games in two thousand twenty, unless the players agree to further reduce their pay, it is not yet planning to present such an idea. The Players Association according to sources with knowledge of the it'll be thinking so leaks. Stance was first reported by on Monday evening roughly twenty four hours after the union made a proposal for one hundred fourteen game season two league in. In a digital meeting, so the message from the League is clear, and some on the players side interpreted as a threat. You want the rated salaries. We agreed upon in March. You'll get them, but only for the number games we want to play so others on the players side however believed the league's willingness to pay the full pro rated salaries for even a limited number of games crazy potential to negotiate. So in a meeting with the Union Sunday the League mentioning. Mentioned playing as few as forty games and twenty twenty, which would be absurd in baseball terms, but but as of late Monday night we'll be communicated. Is Intentions directly to the Players Association and did not plan to make a counter-proposal. This is all part of the League's attempts to negotiate through the media instead of focusing on how to bring baseball back to his fans. Says moby executive director. Tony Clark in a prepared statement. However from the League's perspective, the chances of the Union declining to play out of concern for health and safety seems growing smaller. The Union offered comments on the League's proposal. Original original sixty seven page proposal and league mostly signed off on them once or said still to be negotiated the ability of players both high risk, and not to opt out of the season entirely, so the MLB stance indicates a reading. That it might be in position to unilaterally implement a schedule. If these sides ultimately do not reach a new deal, the commissioner proceeds to schedule Fifty Sixty Games, the union could object citing a pass from the March agreement that requires the Commissioner's Office to use best efforts to play as many games as possible, so the sides might not agree on constitutes a best effort in no small part, because they differ on what the sports economics will look like in twenty, twenty with the gates closed for most of the season, if not all. So the League says it would lose money forever. Regular season game played. The union remained sceptical continues. To await additional documents that could prove financial position and believe the players warrant their full pro-rated salaries in part because of the health risks associated with playing during this pandemic. Meanwhile, the unions offer to defer one hundred million dollars in salaries with interest. If the postseason is canceled, failed to make an impact with. League officials who say their teams do not want to pay the proposed interest on deferrals and take on additional debt. The League also believes that union leaders in conversations with players and agents misrepresented the meaning of a key phrase in that March agreement in a section dedicated to restarting play. The agreement requires the parties. to discuss in good faith, the economic feasibility of playing without fans, which prompted the question which side determines what is feasible. which is always an issue of course, ultimately, the League believes the phrase simply conveys that if fans cannot go to games, a new deal is to be discussed another part of the agreement dedicated player compensation gives players a salary based on how many Games are actually played? We have agreement on compensation that says clearly how players get paid in the event. Games are played prorate. Clark said in a statement Monday. In fact, the League recently confirmed in writing that we agree with the association that under the agreement players are not required to accept less than their full pro rated salary so unsurprisingly the meeting between the sides. Sunday grew heated. Said Clark Commissioner Rob Manfred went on video. Call along with top lawyers on both sides at the heart of the dispute were comments. Clark previously had made to Manfred, apparently, acknowledging the expectation of negotiation. We have never denied the MLB. The has the ability to come back and try to persuade us to change that agreement based on their economic concerns. Clark said they've tried unsuccessfully. In fact, rob confirmed yesterday that we could pay you one hundred percent of salary right now, so the sides are also. Bickering. About the reason the Union won't entertain a new rate of pay is because the march agreement says the players don't have to orse because they simply don't want to the league. Things that players have reversed from the former to the latter. The union however maintains its. The players prerogative to continue reject a second pay cut and assist upon receiving full pro-rated salaries from ten thousand feet. Both sides appear to be exercising basic powers. They seem to gain in their infamous march agreement. The leaks is saying you can't stop us from starting to season. The players are saying you can't make us take less pay so for competitive reasons, the League would still prefer. It's to last longer than fifty odd games, but believe fans would be happy to see baseball return in any form so for now the players are asking. Asking play roughly double. The number of Games League is contemplating, but they players have clear financial incentive to ask for as many games as possible based on their pro rated arrangement in the march agreement. The deadline for an agreement depends on how long this season would be. If were the Games along with the parties could argue for an eighty two game season beginning in early July as league proposed a week ago, players would need to be in spring training part to by the middle of June just a couple of weeks from now. So the exact rob dead. I don't know, but it has to be within. A week or so, one person with knowledge of the discussion said of the eighty two game schedule. So some people on both sides believe there's room to hammer out a deal that includes changes beyond this year by including protections for free agency, this winter, or even a minimum payroll commitment for two thousand, twenty one, but negotiating such elements would prolong the process, and neither side is moving expeditiously. Making that approach unlikely so long term, these negotiations might serve to galvanize everyone players. An agents would view a fit game proposal. As the. Latest in a series of aggressive acts by the will be including the tier pay cuts that Pique their anger. Last week the proceedings could eventually color next year's negotiations of the entire collective bargaining agreement, so if everything falls apart the recourse, either side, and possibly for both. would be to follow grievance, but a hearing in front of an arbitrator would be destructive and time consuming process that likely would lead to cancellation of the twenty twenty season such an outcome still seems very unlikely, so nonetheless the parties are making very little progress and continue to advance ideas that quickly dismissed by the other side. A season can still be savage, but the tensions are only growing so I think it's terrible that the. I think it's terrible that. The MLB, the owners and and Manfred are basically. Threatening the players with a much shorter season than expected I mean the players. It's very clear that the players WanNa play. Baseball is very clear that they wanNA. Play Baseball and they WANNA play as many games as possible. It's very clear. Can't deny that that's true, but the owners don't want to pay them. For What The owners don't want to pay them. For what they're doing The owners don't want to. Pay Them Full. For playing as many games they want because they're going to get paid a pro-rata salary tomorrow. What they got they got them merge agreement and they're probably not going to go back on that, so they're going to get paid. Their full pro rated salaries, no matter what happens. In the rest of the negotiations, it's just the matter of what how many games they play. They play fifty games that much less money and the players are really worried about their health. We discuss this on Sunday. They don't really know we don't really know what the corona virus does long-term, so if a player gets corona virus, we don't know what happens to them. In the long term, so we just have to wait and see would just very scary for a lot of players, because I mean, it damages your lungs apparently and as an athlete. You kind of need those so. So yeah we are. In that situation right now in the owners are kind of being. A Brash baseball struggling right now. To figure out in issue the solution to this issue, but when we come back, we'll talk about a league that has figured out there. Pay issue mostly because they only have playoff games left, but they need to figure out their playoff format. We'll discuss that when we come back. Check out the show that's built on the M. A from UFC extreme cage biting. They got the fights covered. Check out the GSM. See MMA podcast. Get the latest news on past or upcoming fights. Join us as we talked to. In about some of the biggest names in the m e past present future. When it's the fight game, there's just one show to check out GSM see podcast, dot com slash E. Dash podcast. Don't forget to leg on facebook and follow them on twitter. Visit GMC podcast. Dot Com for more INFO. The has pretty much figured out what they're gonNA. Do for the playoffs. There? Still some minor details need to be worked out well for the most part. They have figured it out. They figured out what they're going to do and how they're going to do it's. Basically. They're going to be in Disney world. We're just trying to figure out what resort specific at Disney world resort they're going to say. We're also to figure out. We gotTA figure out. How many teams getting by. We're going to figure out what the playoff formats going to be. There have been different. They're different different things. Suggested invited every team. Some people invite only the teams that have a chance to the playoffs like playoff teams in the bubble teams, and then just kind of play and see if the bowl teams get in I've seen a lot of people say. They WanNa do that just to have Zion there and get more is on. On that. which I don't think that's necessary, because it's going to be the NBA playoffs, you don't really needs I on. When this the NBA playoffs I feel like, but you know whatever, but the playoff format is one one anymore discussed issues of the. Of the NBA. Coming back because. Are they going to do regular playoff format? ARE THEY GONNA do? I've seen receding of everyone. And then I saw this interesting article about. Should players. Should get to choose. Their. This has been a thing for a while. There's been a proposal for a while. People want these teams to choose Their opponents. For the play offs higher seeds to their opponents for the playoffs which I think we probably discussed this before probably back in like February I think, but. anyways, the unusual circumstances brought on by the covid nineteen, th graded unusual situation for the NBA that presents an exciting opportunity for experimentation. There's already been intriguing reporting and speculation about how the league could return, could both return and terminate champion with some indication that Commissioner Adam silver is over to an uncommon resolution as extremely encouraging, because they're a variety of priorities to manage, but also worthwhile. Worthwhile proposals to best accomplish their goals for concluding the twenty nine hundred twenty twenty campaign, having this many into intelligent and focused people, coming up with ideas will inevitably produce viable and exciting plans, but there's a specific nuance that works with many of them that would be an important edition for both this season and the long term so over a decade ago, the NBA Developmental League. Then called the D. League allow top teams to pick your poison power to choose their own opponent. This the people that ideas, the combination of a stronger reward for the regular season success reduced incentives for losing late Season Games. This set a far more favourable matchup and arguably greater equity, because then lower fees may not get the otherwise random benefit of an unhealthy, or if your opponent for example. Example. The Twenty fifteen twenty sixteen grizzlies made the playoffs despite losing both Mike Conley and Marcus all for the season, but the second seeded spurs face them. Since the grizzlies finished one game ahead of the rockets for the seven seat, there is a blatant short-term tanking last season as well which led to three of the four best teams in the Western Conference on the same side of the. And a Western Conference finals sweep. While it was, it would be a worthy addition to the NBA playoffs. In every postseason top teams, choosing their opponents is far more important in twenty twenty do dini unusual circumstances typically disappear seed gets homecourt advantage, and the benefits that come from that in terms of home game, seven more games in front of their own fans and more nights sleeping in their own beds. So No porks exist in this bubble system and the hiatus ads, and even more variability in terms of health, conditioning and injury. It is certainly fair to note that these circumstances are extremely unusual, and we'll always create winners and losers, but rewarding the best regular season teams certainly feels like the best way to address this. So you look at the upside, the beauty of leading top seeds pick their opponents. It is that meshes with the different places including the top sixteen format or the World Cup concept, Kevin O'Connor broke down on Tuesday. So whenever the time for a bracket arises, the top half in bottom half of playing teams are split and starting with the best record. Each team picks their preferred opponent from the bottom half. Until everyone is selected, it could even be done in a televised event. Someone like the march madness bracket reveals show especially this year since they will all be in the same place, so that process can repeat for each of the playoffs before the finals either NBA or conference, depending on which format they use so creating a larger advantage for the. Regular season record. Better the team with the better regular season record, so if adopted for longer than the twenty twenty playoffs, the ability to choose opponents, and even just avoiding being chosen by being in the Tom Pap would push franchises more than they are now. They would not be able to finesse their match up by losing late season games, for example now the downside to this so there are two major issues with leading the best team. Choose their opponents one logistical in one practical. The logistical issue is at the pick. Your poison process requires each round to complete before the next one starts, so the choosing teams actually know what their options are in grades, lulls in the playoff schedule. At times. The NBA's allowed to get ahead when some series finished more quickly, but the late series are always said in stone so is. Is Not that big of a shift that makes less of a difference. This time around every team will be playing in the same bubble, and they're no travel considerations. This should not be dealbreaker in a normal year, but is even less of a problem in two thousand twenty. Specifically, additionally, it would be very hard for a team at the bottom to make a run, because the bracket would be consistently work against them. However overperforming squad, early rounds could potentially scare off top teams as more favorable opposition in the future rounds to another fun quirk of the system. The. Other major concern is a more practical one. Would the decision makers actually choose aggressively? This system allows actress absolutely produces additional drama and bulletin board material, no matter how the selections go, but the whole thing becomes significantly less interesting if teams play it safe rather than. Cheerleader, inner macho belly instill at least they have the opportunity, so here's a full proposal. In years with a full slate, the League can absolutely stick with the conference centric format for travel television timing reasons, but those concerns are totally different this time around so do that. And the abruptly stopped regular season. This approach would be similar to the group stage idea. The World Cup idea. With some stronger benefits for strong records, so the twenty best records would be eligible and split up into four groups. By record like this like in this proposal originally. Toyed. With the idea of tweaking, the group selection, or to further reward top teams, but another wrinkle does the trick while either eight or sixteen teams from the group stage advanced to the knockout stage. With the top half of the total number of teams, going to the knockouts are both automatically through and will choose their first round knockout opponents in order of the regular season finish after all would be unfair for the bucks Laker Raptors and clippers to not make far, plus they will need to. They will need tuneup games and get the to influence who qualifies knockouts rather than sitting home in a by situation also allows every team to get into the knockout round on merit without any single elimination randomness. In fact, they could even let everyone play their group opponent twice for an eight sample closer to the group stage format of the U. E.. F. A Champions League. From their the top half pig out of the bottom half all the way until the NBA, finals, so either two or three rounds depending on whether it's an eight or sixteen team field while this NBA, season phases, unusual and hopeful, and hopefully never repeated obstacles this hiatus and restart. Provides a unique opportunity to assess an experiment with new ideas that will improve the league. There are series of playoff on sports, considering, but allowing top teams choose their opponents would be a key new wrinkle added this postseason because it gives the teams a stronger reward. Regular season creates drama incentivizes competitiveness in future seasons, so here's my opinion on this so It's a fine enough idea. Right off the bat. It's a fine. It's fine. It's a fine idea. I don't necessarily I'm not necessarily against it I. Just don't think it will add that much to it. Because at the end of the day, these teams are just going to choose the worst team available I guess like for instance he mentioned the grizzlies getting the seven seed back when Mike Conley and Ghazal. We're all hurt The issue of that is that the number one he will choose them. Okay like. The number, one team would choose them number. Two team will choose whether was and I. Mean. We're pretty much back where we are And it makes it less likely for underdogs to kind of get in. The NBA, so the eight seed in the one seed shouldn't be that far apart, but they are i. mean the Lakers and and I think the grizzlies the if the Lakers play the grizzlies right now, it would probably be a four-game sweep. That's just how it is I mean they're better, but. I'm not. I'm not sure how much it would actually help. and. That's my main issue. I don't want to change it to see how much would actually. Help you know so. That's just my opinion I. Don't know how much will actually help. I don't know how much would actually benefit. The better team. Don't know if it will benefit the borders teams at all, but there you have it when we come back. We'll discuss why Oklahoma University University Oklahoma whatever is waiting longer than its appears to bring athletes back when we come back. Are you looking for help for your fantasy football team checkout? The GSM see fantasy football podcast. Get today's best advice on how to start who to sit, even who you should draft from sleeper picks red hot lineups. They got it all covered for you. That's GMC PODCAST DOT COM backslash fantasy dash football dash podcast. We'll cover traditional leagues dynasty. Few PR even I think. When you need fantasy help, there's just one show to hit up. Don't forget to like them on facebook and follow them on twitter. Visit S PODCAST DOT COM for more INFO. So it is officially June, it's do second right now. a lot of universities and colleges and athletic programs are getting back to work right now. They a lot of them came back yesterday June I a lot of them coming back June eighth next Monday and It's kind of happening. Where college athletics are starting to come back as college propose specifically is starting to come back. And by that I mean. They're bring athletes back on campus. We still not sure if. Football season will happen, but it is looking more and more likely than football. Season will happen in a lot of. Universities and campuses are opening back up. They start opening back up yesterday. Their opening backup for these athletes to finally. Start working out surgeon, offseason programs and saw and stuff such as that and. I can't explain to you how happy I am about that. Just because it's a good sign, it's a positive sign is optimistic. Sign of what's to come, but one major football program is still waiting. They're waiting longer than their peers to bring athletics back not as Oklahoma the Oklahoma sooners. So the Oklahoma Athletic. Director Joe Casting Leone. I think that's how you say his name. New Win is athletic. Department announced it would reopen is facilities to football players beginning July first the sooners would get some criticism after all. The big twelve presidents voted to allow players to return to campus for voluntary workouts fifteenth, if school administrators chose to bring them back, so why would Oklahoma, which has won the big twelve football title each of the last four seasons, and made the college football of each of the past three seasons, wait and wait and allow competitors in its conference to to week head start, and what about the programs and other leagues that plan to start three weeks earlier because casting on said that Oklahoma administrators already had targeted age ally I return, and they didn't feel like the extra two or three weeks provide much of advantage so the key distinction according to casting loan. Is that the only workouts currently allowed or voluntary in normal June? Teams will be allowed to require eight hours of organized team activities per week. So this includes time in the weight room, running on the field and a maximum of two hours of football instruction, but with that activity currently suspended by the Sea of lay because of Kobe. Nineteen workout would be more limited strength coaches can designs them just as they have. While players have been away, these coaches can supervisors workouts for safety. Safety Purposes, but to casting alone at other Oklahoma leaders. Being able to do that wasn't as important as having more time to put cove nineteen testing protocols in place before players return. He mentioned that I. Think People are getting that confused and thinking of it as a competitive disadvantage. That's not what is being allowed. During the month of June. It's only voluntary, so it's almost like the kind of workout. Somebody would get during the Times. They are not permitted to be organizing workouts. So Gasoline Leon who? Served on numerous committees, working groups suspects the rules could change again in July, the general consensus among athletic directors, coaches and medical personnel that teams need to be back in the weight room by mid-july players to have enough time to be physically ready to play the twenty twenty season as currently scheduled now when we get back. Now when we get back on July first, he said we could very well see the rule change again where we would be permitted to have a normal summer workout that people are used to seeing so Oklahoma's plan dovetails with the sentiment of sooners coach. Lincoln Riley who said last month that he would prefer programs. Wait longer before bringing back to campus every day early that we bring them. In is a day. We could have gotten better. Riley told reporters. It's a day we could have learned more about the virus. It's a day. That personal protective equipment may be gets better. It's a day closer to a vaccine. It's a day that are testing equipment and testing capabilities. Get better, and it's just not worth it, so we've got to be patient. We've got one shot at this and we've got to do right so casio alone said Holmes is asking. All athletes take part in virtual quarantine for two weeks before returning to campus, athletes will be asked to try to limit their movements during that time. If they do need to travel, then they'll. They'll be asked to keep track of where they've been and with whom they've come in contact. Contact when they returned to campus. If you days before the facility opens, they'll get tested for Kobe nineteen, the school already has set aside one residential facility to use in case, anyone test positive and needs to be quarantined so several common areas such as the players lounge adjacent to the locker room will be closed, so meanwhile players will work out in smaller groups than Usual Oklahoma's football weight room has large doors that can be opened to allow in fresh air, and with the thirty two thousand five hundred square feet space equipment can be arranged to allow a safe distance between players and strength coaches. So as these Oklahoma, players return gasoline and four other big twelve athletic directors will be working to answer some pressing questions about the upcoming football season that working group has been impaneled to model potential outcomes, so it is I trying to determine some key dates for example. At what point do schools need to make a final decision if they like to make a full play a full season schedule? I personally would like it'd be early. July, gasoline on said. But I. Don't find much consensus on that date. I think people are thinking. They can wait until maybe mid July to make this kind of decisions, but some might think later, but there's a lot planning that has to take place once. Those decisions are made. So the AD group also will consider what will go into that planning. Those discussions would include protocols for what will happen if one or more players Tepe test positive. For Kobe nineteen during the season, there's enormous rabbit hole right there. He said so. He and his fellow ADP's will spend the next month. Plumbing, the depths of that and several other rabbit holes in an attempt to come up with the best way to play a season under extraordinary circumstances so I'm on his side. I A big Fan. Of. These teams, coming back, and showing optimism and kind of getting on track to see, but the fact of the matter is we do need wait a little longer I agree with Lincoln Riley. We might need weight every day that we are rushing. It is another day that we could have improved everything you know. And once again it's just voluntary workout, so it's not like. Voluntary I should say with quotation marks because I'm I'm sure some of these teams are. Making that voluntary. Involuntary but. Yeah I mean. It's just. Hot Man it's just an interesting thing that we need to deal with that. I mean Oklahoma I. Think they're doing the right thing here. They're waiting. They're waiting to see if they can improve anything. Before? Before they make A. Before they make a permanent decision that affects all their athletes on campus so I agree with Oklahoma I. DO agree with them. I hate that. This is Kinda taking a step back to this progress that we're making, but it's Kinda necessary once again. We don't know the long term effects of this. Virus, so we got to keep everyone safe. Yes, they're young and they're. They're fit and stuff like that. They have the best chance of surviving, but the issue is. If they do survive. What is the long-term? What is the long-term damage that they got because they survived? You know so. It's just it's just stuff that you think about and people don't WanNa. Think about this stuff because they want to have football back. So badly. And look I understand. I want football back as badly as everybody else does however. We need to make sure that everyone. Is Okay. You make sure everything is okay for that. So I agree with Oklahoma I don't know if you guys agree if you agree. Let me know if you agree with Lincoln Riley agree with and. Let me, know I am taking their side on this one because I think it is the smart thing due to wait, he's got to wait and see how everything turns out. So I agree with them. There are so many different things like testing testing practices. There could be better equipment going out. There could be better methods to working out in a wait and see see what other programs are doing, and then you can, you can build off of one of the programs are doing because I'm sure all these programs are working together to make sure that. All these athletes are safe and stuff like that early, so I'm hoping they're working together I. Feel like it would be against everyone's best wishes that they weren't helping together, but. That's just me so I think this is a great thing. So. Yeah, things great. Great Oklahoma being on a I'm kind of surprised. Oklahoma's the team that's. Leading this, but you know good for them. When we come back, we're talking about. Going to talk about Clemson's wide receiver, Justin, Ross, he has been announced to be out for the football the twenty twenty season. Whether we have it or not, so we'll discuss that when we return. Are you looking to get your college football next looking to get the latest news on your favorite schools team? They Diaz Mc College football podcast is your ticket to all things college football doing us as we talk college football from the National Championship. The college rivalries. The bowl game to the heisman trophy, which converts is the best we've got. You covered for the big ten as the big twelve. The PAC twelve ADC everything in between download the jets, the college football podcast on Itunes, stitcher, soundcloud, Google, play or anywhere you blind podcasts, just type Diaz Mc in the search bar. So as we have been through discussions of whether or not Dallas vote will come back. There was a huge announcement that was made yesterday at about one of the best receivers in college football manager Justin Ross of Justin Ross was expected to be Clinton's top tearing wide receiver this fall. He was a major part of their twenty eight National Championship Game Against Alabama that he was being part of that national run. That playoff run in general he was. He was the leading receiver. Or the second leading receiver behind he higgins last year this past season and now. He has been announced out for the twenty twenty season. Would you huge blow to Clemson? As Now? They're leading their lead now. The leading returning receiver is now travesty T in and eighteen only has like three hundred yards or something like that so. Wide Receiver. You takes a big hit right here now of course. Clemson they have plenty of other receivers that could step up, but Justin Ross was ready made. He was already ready for the NFL was. A freshman is a freak. I'm just telling you. He needed work on technique a little bit more, but he was a freak when he was a freshman. And you saw it in the in the national that Twenty Eight Thousand National Championship game. He was making one hand catches. He was making insane catches all over the place. He's Alabama native, but. But he is not expected. To, he is not going to play football in twenty twenty, so the junior has been diagnosed with congenial fusion of the spine, which might to too dangerous for him to continue playing the Alabama native impossible for future first round draft pick is scheduled to travel Thursday to Pittsburgh for a surgery. Friday that Clemson hopes will help him eventually return to the field the further. He went into his football career. It probably would have shown up, but nobody until this point knew he had that said Clemson. clemson coach Dabo Sweeney on a zoom call with reporters. He's had no issues in his whole career, so justin is a great place mentally coach. Weenie says he's ready to do what he needs to do to give himself best chance play football again so during a routine clemson spring practice in March Ross ran a slant round and caught a pass, but he was slow to get up after he's hit. He experienced initial numbness thought it was nothing. Clemson found to to concerning at the time. So, the staff started monitoring for Stinger symptoms around. March eleventh so Ross went to the sideline remained a spectator for rest of the practice. Later he underwent an X. Ray clemson's regular procedure when a player is expected to have suffered a singer that evening sweeney saw him at dinner was encouraged by how normal his receiver peer to look the next morning. However, Clemson trainer, Danny Pool and team physician Dr, Steven Martin. Met Sweeney Office informed him that they had found something unexpected. Sweeney's goes on to say Dr Martin was pretty shocked at what he saw when he looked at his back in his spine into concern, and he was a little bit of a bulging disc as well, and that's an issue if he was a football coach, an accountant, or whatever he'd be back at it and probably six weeks, but he's a football player, so there's obviously a lot more involved here when it comes for him to be able to play the game. The game he loves the frustrating thing for justice. He feels perfectly fine with the doctors know that he is at risk so neurosurgeon. David oaken quo. Golly professor of neurological surgery at the University of Pittsburgh any doctor for the Pittsburgh. As already met with Ross once he. He and his hopeful Fridays. Procedure were pair the bulging disc and is optimistic that there is a path play again. Sweeney said, but there are no guarantees. So how could the twenty year old Ross have a condition like this for two decades and never know about it. Doctor Annan who is not treating Ross, but as director spine trauma at cedars-sinai Spine, center in Los Angeles pointed to a lack of symptoms. You don't have any symptoms. Why would you take an x Ray? Why would you ever check your neck if you don't get pain unless you get a symptom or there's something that. That tells you something is wrong. Why would you Ross is expected to remain involved with the program in twenty twenty, and when he praises positively, Ross Will Mainly Act as another coaching figure for his fellow receivers, but without Ross Tigers in quarterback Trevor Lawrence will look to Sophomore Joe Nagata and Frank Gladsden as the primary outside threats so raw, six, four, two hundred five pounds was projected to become consorting boundary receiver, replacing around draft pick T, Higgins Ross caught six passes for eight hundred sixty five yards and eight touchdowns in twenty, nineteen as the film receiver. A senior Amari Rogers were mainly starting slot receiver. But Sweeney is hopeful, but by January Ross we'll be in a position to work out at the NFL. Combine and enter the NFL draft or to return to Clemson for another year. Dan Burglar who covers the NFL draft, or the athletic, said Ross's NFL. Hopes are unknown until health conditions resolve, but that the Clinton receiver has first round talent, his athleticism catch radius really popped on film, even with the other receiver talent on the roster. It was nothing it was going to be Lawrence raw show for the club offense twenty twenty. You hate this for him. Even if we have seen him play his last football at Clemson. Ross has all the Taliban bag receiver in the Perot. So this is a huge hit. To the Clinton receiving core, he is a NFL made receiver. He was easily going to be a first round. Pick at receiver. He could easily been a first round pick for receiver. And? There's a huge hit now. CLEMSON has to rely on Clemson who has always had depth at wide receiver. They have to rely on soft Moore's frank lives in and chosen. We gotta which by the way. Those guys are both. FREAKS as well they're both. Your next freaks says well. You probably would have heard more of them, but they were sitting behind t higgins and Justin Ross. So? They played a little bit last year as freshmen. They played a little bit. I. Mean nothing really popped out because. I mean I. Don't know, but Clinton has a rotating. Clemson does a very weird. Thing with the receivers and I don't think any other. University really does any other team. Does they rotate their receivers as much as possible? They rotate them pretty much every play depending on the situations. Just, the timing of this is really bad because they just L-. Lost a bunch of receivers to graduation and stuff like that. They, had de'andre, Overton, who is going to be could be Could have been a great. Replacement for Justin Ross I mean he wouldn't have been as good adjusting Ross, but he would have been a great replacement at least be. Decent. But. Frank Lanston and Joseph Maganga this kind of a kind of A. They're kind of unknown, but they're both really really. athletically gifted and they've been with the program since last winter. They've been with him for a full year now at this point. But! The fact that We don't have we might not have a fault camp or we might not have a huge fall camp. That's going to hurt Clemson even more because they won't have time to put them in game situations as the top outside receivers so another another reason why Clemson has incentive to try to get back into. Onto campus as fast as possible because they're going to have to figure things out. And we're all GONNA figurative it. Trevor Lawrence is the real deal because he's. He's been blessed with t higgins and Justin Rawson in rent, and all these great receivers now he has to deal with I mean Amari. Rogers is still great receiver at the slot, but he's just gonNA play slot. Now now we're GONNA see how he does with. Once again frank and Josie gotta are very athletically gifted, but we don't know how good they are. So I I'm not gonNA. Put them in the League of t higgins, and John Ross so. We're GONNA. See Trevor Lawrence does with that I mean this is a this was supposed to be. Make or break year I. mean you still have Travis et and you could see Clemson? Go more into a running attack with travis eat in coming back But we'll see of course my my favorite thing to say we'll see how that turns out. But. This is a huge blow. This is a huge blow to their offense, but I don't think it's that I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. Now we get to sit here and wonder if he's going to come back to Clemson, personally don't think he will because. If, he is healthy enough and a team takes a chance on him, and he gets a first look. If he's healthy enough and is able to get drafted. He should go get drafted especially if. Because of this issue, go get paid my man. That's pretty much all I got to say. Just go get paid especially if you have. If you have that issue there? You just go ahead and go get paid like. Don't care what anybody else says. Just go get paid. Hopefully. He finishes up his degree close. Players usually finish the degrees before. Three years, so which is crazy, but I mean he. You'll have more time to worry about. Worry about that so. It's GONNA be Weird. It's going it's going to be. Tough for Clemson to figure that out, but probably the good thing is, they probably won't play in front of fans. So, these sophomores won't get rattled by any. Away environments such as Florida state or anything like that. But this will be a big big issue that this Clinton offense will have to figure out, but the thing about Clemson, is they? They, don't rebuild. They reload and. We'll see how that turns out for them this time. So when we come back, we'll be talking about the draft review for the Cleveland Browns. We'll be discussing how their draft went, and if they will actually do anything with it, so we'll discuss that when we return. Shortly. Build around the women. From the UFC INVICTA. delatour. Championship regatta fights cover. It's the golden state media concepts, women's MMA podcast, the latest news of coming fights discussions of previous matches join us as we talked to about the biggest names in women's mixed martial arts past present and future. When it's the women's fight game, you know where to listen to the golden state media concepts women's May podcast. Alright Lis Dome and here we are. We are in the Cleveland browns. Part of our draft review so the dust has settled of course and the Cleveland Browns. They had a very disappointing year last year after they were poised to make a big role. they still have Jarvis Landry. They still have. Odell Beckham Junior. They still have. Nick Shaab they still have. Baker Mayfield, but Baker Mayfield heading into his third year as an NFL quarterback, he had a sophomore slump of course he also had freshman slump, but whenever he had a huge sophomore slump, and we're here to see if he is the real deal or not, but the browns they had. Let's see one two, three, four, five six seven picks in this draft. A lot of outlets have said that they did a pretty good draft. We'll see about that. Let's start it out? They need an offensive line helping. They got it right away. They drafted with their number one pick. Number of round one pick pig number ten JJ edrich wills off as a tackle from Alabama, so the browns eating offense tackle, and had the choice between wills or Louisville's Mekki Becton there was some question about becton before the draft of a report of a failed drug test team with the safer route, but still managed to bring in starting caliber tackle so during his sophomore season, he snagged. The starting right tackle position at the start of the two thousand eighteen season he finished the season starting fifteen games at the position, which lead the number three scoring offense in the nation wills broke into the picture as the best offense Lineman, the nation as a junior, his reward for a season included the following a second team all American from the AFC Associated Press Sporting News Walter camp third team all American tackle by pro focus, pro football focus all as you see team first team, second team preseason, all American so wills allowed just one sack, all season and three, and a half of quarterback hurries seven hundred seventy. Seventy one snaps process rate of ninety nine percent ranking third in the nation. He helped anchor the offensive line that allowed just point nine two sacks per game, so the ties ground game was efficient on the ground, finishing about five and a half yards per carry in the end. The browns would have likely wanted Georgia's Andrew Thomas however. Thomas was off the board and number ten number four, so the New York giants hand selected him. He might have fall into the browns. Instead the browns drafted the next best tackle, and they would be rewarded with a high draft grade. They're so grant. Del Pit is their next pick. Safety. It's another solid player those room it'd be gone way before the browns pick a number forty four Delgada size athleticism and can make plays who's the winner of the Twenty Nine Thousand Jim Thorpe Award which is awarded to the best back in the country. In twenty. Nineteen debit finish with sixty five combined tackles seven passes defended into interceptions, believe it or not, it was a down year compared to two thousand eighteen where he had seventy five combat combined tackles five sacks. Five interceptions end nine passes defended personally. This is great pick by the browns because they'll put the eighteen the draft obviously Xavier mckinney from Alabama was going to be gone, and he was with the number thirty six overall pick by the giants, however the new new, England Patriots only thirty seven overall pick in elected us pig on division to safeties Tile Duggar cal, Duggar, then the Chicago bears picked right before the Brown's number forty three were rumored to be interested in taking safety instead that they went with Notre Dame tied in coal commit. Debit was once considered a first round talent, and practically fell to the browns. Every team needs a bit of luck. When wanting to contend in professional sports at the browns might have finally gotten lucky with this with this pick Jordan. Elliott Defense Lineman at this point probably asking yourself. How can the browns have three straight A.'S ON THE REPORT CARD? The question is that team deserves it. So Elliott was ranked sixth highest defensive tackle in the draft with the browns were ready to pick a number eighty eight five tackles were picked in front of him. Including Oklahoma's Neville, Gallimore coups ranked number seven overall, the Brown selected the best available option at the position now there might be some bias for this pay because Elliott. People had Elliott go into the browns in the third round in their mock drafts, but Elliott six foot, four three hundred fifteen pound redshirt junior that play defense alignment for Missouri. A former, all American Elliott transfer from the university Texas after his freshman year after sitting the two thousand seventeen season, due to transfer rules Elliott was named the team's Defensive Scout Player of the year. In two thousand eighteen. Elliott quickly became an impact player. It was named second team all SEC by the media, his stats included twenty four tackles eight tackles for loss and three sacks last season. Elliott finished with thirty. One tackles eight and a half tackles for loss and two and a half sacks, so the pro football focus ranked in the highest defender on the team squad. So according to some analysts, Elliott was rated as high as number forty to forty second. Prospect in the entire draft as far as INFO dot coms, Sirloin sees Elliott could be a star League as soon as next season. So in terms of value, the browns might have had the best third round selection out of any team. They're not their next pig was Jay Phillips linebacker. Linebacker of she was a member of a style defense, but in terms of was better pick. The Brown's got this one wrong. In my opinion, the browns have the choice between philps Colorado's debut and Taylor who went to the Philadelphia Eagles six picked later in Taylor's career, he recorded one hundred, thirty, six tackles twenty tackles for loss in twelve tackles for gain. His stats also include thirty, twenty, three third down stops, twelve quarterback pressures, nine pass breakups and three fumble recoveries. As for Phillips, he led the Tigers in the SEC and tackles twenty nineteen. He finished his career with twenty. Two hundred eighteen career tackles three. Thirteen and a half tackles for loss, two sacks, and an interception what separates filled from other linebackers in the group is allies the ability to play in coverage Phillips has a lot of talent. There's no denying that you don't lead the SEC and tackles if you aren't good at what you do, however there are some concerns of how he will fit in under the new defensive coordinator. Joe would scheme if he can do that. This grade could be completely change by next season. Next biggest Harrison Bryant tight end Bryant one the John mackey Warford nations, top tight end in two thousand nineteen, but stats came against opponents from non power. Five Conferences Bryant led all division. One two tight ends with sixty five receptions for thousand four yards and seven touchdowns. He was named first team all conference USA as well as a first team all American. American, becoming the first ever Fau player to accomplish that feat in his career Bryant visit one hundred forty eight receptions for two thousand, one, hundred, thirty seven yards and sixteen touchdowns at Fau. Bryant was the team's first choice as a receiving threat when fau played nationally ranked Ohio State and UCF Bryant led the team in receiving seventy two in fifty one yards respectively. According to Walter Football dot. COM Bryant was the number ten rank tied in on the board is a huge hit on his ability to play at the next level. The browns have plenty of receiving threats on the team already in Odell Beckham Junior Jarvis Landry, Austin Hooper and a healthy David. Joke who? Is playing in the final year is working contracts with the team could be looking towards the future. The team should have drafted a true blocking tight end, and that was still on the Board Mazda and attend the NFL combined, which likely her stock, but has the combination of quickness and athleticism that could be used as a blocker. The good news is that Brian is at least one season to improve because he is the third option on the depth chart behind hooper and jokue for now I think they were better options on board. So mackerras the next one. He's a center. Browns India Center. So why did the team essentially waste their fifth round? Pick on one. Lost the browns nine Jadeveon Clowney in the near future pick doesn't really make sense. The resigned say that is the browns have been linked to having interest and bring edge rushers. When the browns were selecting Boise State's Curtis Weaver was still on the board we beat off into tackles in numerous ways and had a great career at Boise State. In three seasons. You finished with Sackville's of eleven nine and a half at thirteen half also included a tackle for loss, count thirteen, fifteen and nineteen and a half of the course of three years. But as of today, the browns remain uncommitted cloudy, so there's a chance that team could Miss Allen to productive pass rushers so for Harris. He could have been better suited with another team. He was a first team all PAC twelve selection last season as well as an AP second team all American. Harris is a bad player. By any means, the browns could have found premium value to shore up a whole on the defense, and that team pass to take a player for a position that they didn't need currently. And then their last pick of the draft on people's Jones wide receiver. The browns have drafted Minnesota's. Tyler Johnston in the fifth round, which would have been a fantastic pick, but as for the six round talent available, the Brown found great value here at the receiver position, and as a return man during his freshman season, he caught twenty two passes for two hundred seventy seven yards, and returned forty punts for big ten, leading three hundred twenty yards is seventy nine yard punt return was a season long as he ran his way into freshman all American lists. He led the big ten in return yards, two thousand, eighteen as well. He finished all big ten thirteen in two, thousand, eighteen and twenty, one thousand nine hundred efforts in the return game in twenty, nine, thousand nine. He didn't leave the conference return yards early season injury in which John Describe is a soft tissue. Groin injury. He finished with a career low seven. Point two yards per carry while it's one hundred seventy three punt return yards second in the league as a receiver, he caught thirty four passes for four hundred thirty eight yards and six receiving touchdowns. However he is going to make a name for himself with the BROWNS. It's going to be as a punt or kick returner Jarvis Landry is the number one punt returner at the moment on the depth chart. Landry is not returned a punt or touchdown since two thousand fifteen. WHO's a member of the Miami Dolphins over the last two seasons, landers returned to seven points per toll six yards. So this could be a big help. In, the special teams game so there you have it. Some pretty good picks and some questionable picks their. Overall I think they built up their offense line a little bit better. They built up that defence a little bit better, and they got a decent punt returner, so I think assault drafter for the browns it will they do anything with it who who knows man, but thank you for listening to this Tuesday edition of the podcast I'll talk to you all on Thursday. Hope you have a good one you've been listening to the golden state media concepts sports podcast part. Part of the Golden state media concepts podcast network. You can find this show and others like at www dot Jesus MC. PODCAST DOT COM download our podcast on Itunes, stitcher, soundcloud and Google play just type in Jesus Mc to find all the shows from the golden state media concepts podcast network from movies to music from Sports, entertainment, and even Weird News. You can also follow us on twitter and on facebook. Thank you and we hope you have enjoyed today's program.

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Scorpion Vs Mouse: A Mind-Blowing Desert Showdown

Short Wave

13:38 min | 8 months ago

Scorpion Vs Mouse: A Mind-Blowing Desert Showdown

"Hey everybody matty Safai here. This week has somehow already been a very twenty twenty week. Knock great out there. So, today we're bringing you one of the silliest episodes of shortwave. We've ever made from back in March I promise. It'll bring you some genuine science joy which we can all use right now. We're back with a new episode on. Wednesday. And if you haven't already remember to subscribe to or follow shortwave wherever you get your podcast. Okay. Let's have fun. You're listening to shortwave. From NPR. About you but watching prestige nature documentaries is my idea. Of A wild Friday night. The scorching sun means many desert animals only come out at night, and there's a new one on net flicks narrated by the amazing Samarra Wiley called night on earth where a little desert mouse a tiny grasshopper mouse comes face to face with a Scorpion might want to steer clear this is in the Sonoran desert well, the is in like western New Mexico and sort of extends down into Sonora Mexico that's Lauren Esposito on the curator of Iraq at the California Academy of Sciences, Scorpions, Aka arachnids team score, Van, all the way. Yeah. You see where this is going. Hey, Lauren how's it going? Oh, I'm so excited. That's Ashley Grow I'm an assistant professor in the Biology Department at the University of Oklahoma Ashley Studies the grasshopper. Mouse, which is I, believe this is the scientific term. adorable. There's for like they look like Mickey Mouse and he's big ears and he's big is these long whiskers and as look really innocent and cute we absolutely had to get Ashley and Lauren Together. So we could learn everything about what happens next many animals tried to avoid venomous scorpions. Everybody's gotta eat. But not this little river. In a flash, the mouse attacks the Scorpion. He's a Scorpion heating specialist completely ignores like multiple stings to the face. His body can block the from even the most lethal scorpion toxins and rips the Scorpions tail off sting to saw. The Scorpions Scorpion dispatched and then howls into the sky he claims his territory. Tiny, scream. Yeah. It's pretty normal. Admit that. This episode, a mouse, versus Scorpion showdown that seriously will blow your mind. I'm mattis fire in the shortwave, the daily science podcast from NPR. Quick note here on the Mouse Scorpion throwdown in the Netflix show that Scorpion is called the giant Hairy Scorpion for the purposes of this scholarly discussion we've substituted the Arizona bark million also a scorpion this mouse likes to eat but way more intense venom and therefore cooler. All right Yo you ready to throw down. Yes ready. So as you both know, we don't WanNa make this feel to competitive. It's just a low key easygoing science space conversation about. Two mortal enemies. One corner from the dry and fearsome Sonoran desert Reagan at Ashley How much do these Nice way anywhere between twenty to fifty grams a about an ounce. The, grasshopper mouse. Other corner from a little dirt hole under Iraq down the. For Beer. So we're going to break down this fight between these two little babies and learn as much as we can about them in the next ten minutes. Sound good. Do it. All right. So Ashley this grasshopper mouse it's going out searching for Scorpions. Is this like its primary snack or what is it? What is going after out there? So in some areas that is primary snack. Yeah. grasshopper mice are distributed throughout short grass prairies and deserts in North America? So in some areas they'll eat. SPIDERS Scorpions lizards small birds they will eat other my birds they're. Smaller birds, birds was the one that. It's hard to imagine a a little mouse eating bird will they do actually if you like you can't house two males together the males are really aggressive so they will kill each other. Yeah, do. They. Do they eat the brain? No they did. SP's dump rain out they. Know that that's Brain, I understand that PODCASTING IS A. Medium, but I would strongly suggest our listeners at this point, pull up a picture of his spouse because. It's not. No it doesn't like. You think you see a picture of them and you're like Oh. This is really adorable mouths and then you learn the they kill each other and eat their brains out. Now there do not be fooled don't be. Okay. Okay. So learn when the battle starts, it's possible that the Scorpion is ready with like a particular kind of venom for this situation I didn't know that they had different types of venom. Yeah. Well. So actually one single individuals Scorpion can produce up to two hundred unique compounds in its cocktail of Venom and We have some preliminary evidence suggesting that they're able to express different parts of that cocktail. In different circumstances. So if they're trying to defend themselves, they might be using the more expensive peptides that caused pain or if they're trying to capture some pray, they might be using some of the the less metabolic costly things like salts, enzymes that is all they really need to break down a cricket. So cool. So you know Scorpions don't get enough credit out here they're making different types of venom. When you think about it, the Scorpions have really small and when they're trying to subdue their prey, they just need to paralyse it really quickly. So it can't get away. But when they're trying to defend themselves from their predators with they really want to do is deliver a stinging blow that stuns the Predator and gets them dropped so that they can escape and I think. What ashes referring to this idea this hypothesis that people have proposed called the venom conservation hypothesis, which is basically says like if your if your body to produce things and those things cost you energy to produce you WANNA use the least amount in any given circumstance. So you don't WanNa waste all your energy honestly say you know what I mean I'm trying to do too much. Walk that far to the gym. Okay so arguably one of the coolest parts of this is that the Scorpion gives the mouse the old like one two with a tail like sting sting the right term Lauren yesterday. All right. So just POPs him Bo-bo, with some staying vibes after that the mouse is like you're going to have to do better than that. Scorpion. So Ashley is going on. Well, the short answer is that the mouse has evolved resistance to the painful toxins that are in the venom, and so they can get stung multiple times in their face. But. The mice I they. They just groom a little bit like it is irritating. They're irritated by but then it's like the pain is just over and then they just go in, go back in for the attack and they. Look in their eyes. In Lauren just to be clear Arizona Barks Scorpions are not producing joke venom. Pretty potent, right? Yeah. So they can produce venom that could potentially kill like a small child. It's no joke I. Mean it's really serious venom and in some of their close relatives that live in northern Mexico those species are producing venom that could kill an adult like a human. Yeah. Yeah. We should say that it's not like it just is resistant or whatever to this potential Venom Ashley. It makes the mouse more powerful. Though it's crazy. So when the mice gets stung, their pain pathway or renew Ron's that make their pain pathway their modified to the proteins in the venom actually block those paint signals, they bond to those sensory neurons and they actually block the pain signals. Then they're actually less sensitive to other painful stimuli after they've been stung, it's like it's it's like the venom becomes an analgesic for them. It becomes a pain blocker is I mean Lauren? That's pretty cool. You gotTA give that up. I. Know I know you're. But it's pretty team Scorpion, but it's pretty cool. I can take something that's supposed to be like extremely painful and turn it into something that makes me not feel any pain anymore though it'd be pretty up. Okay so so Warren, you've described this to me as kind of like an evolutionary arms race between Scorpion Venom and the mouses ability to resist venom. Tell me about that. Well, what we think is that over time the Scorpions have to evolve stronger and stronger venom as a way to get around an escape. These really super vicious, terribly awful mice. And so what happens is over time the mouse gets stronger. The Scorpion gets stronger and increases for all of of Luminary history that these two have been in contact. It's just like a tail as old as time I think you know the really cool thing about this whole this whole arms race stories that it's because of the work that Ashley has been doing that we actually have direct evidence that they're currently engaged in this this. Arms race because she's found that different populations are are more or less resistance to the Scorpions that live with them are in different places. So this really because actually likes to experiment with mice and Scorpions that we. that. We know they're locked in this battle for life. We see you out here actually row. We see you out here. Okay. So maybe my favorite part and I know this isn't necessarily something you guys study is after the mouse kills and each this scorpion he throws his tiny little mouse head back points his nose at the dark desert sky and he claims his territory. I just love it. It's a very ferocious moment they in their in desert at night especially around dusk when they first started merging from their burrows. You can't see them. I mean, it's really hard to actually see out there but you can hear them they start howling calling to each other and it's sort of a hey I'm out here. This is my territory because they do they have large territories and they can't always see each other, but they can hear each other so. In this video, obviously the mouse is coming out on top but give me an idea of like is that most of the time the case or are the Scorpions mostly getting away? What's the situation? So in the real world, we think the Scorpions get away some of the time. Yeah, and Scorpions are amazing in that. They know when there's a Predator around they can sense it they. They feel vibrations on the surface of the desert. and. They've got these these slits in. Silla. On their feet which are visited like tiny little ears in their feet. They're like Viper Tori organs that pick up by regions, and so a lot of times they can orient themselves to the direction of an oncoming Predator prey that they just feel and they know like how basically how big it is because of how much vibration it's making in which direction it's approaching from, and so they're like Brady I can't these are such cool critters. That was that was great. You just said little ears on their feet. I had not thought about that way I was struggling like, what are those little I know? They're like because I know Y- the Scorpions when we're out collecting, they know that we're after them they're fast. It's it's. Hard To. Catch. Her they. Actually you should just be bringing me. Actually come to learn when she calls them at this. I do I just do a whistle. Scorpion. We got I gotTa take you me and hunting. Ashley Rowe and Lauren Esposito. By the way Ashley and other scientists are still trying to better understand painkilling abilities of the grasshopper mouse to help design better non addictive painkillers for humans. If you want to read about that or more on either of these amazing critters we've got you covered in the episode nets. This episode was produced by Brian, Bachmann edited by Viet Lay and fact checked by Emily von. Madison. And we're back tomorrow with more shortwave from NPR. With civil unrest, the pandemic and the economic crisis you want to know what's happening right when you wake up and that's why there is up I the news you need in about ten minutes from NPR news listen every day.

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An Unmanned Flight Into the Future of Forecasting

Weather Geeks

41:12 min | 1 year ago

An Unmanned Flight Into the Future of Forecasting

"The future is here and so is the rise of unmanned aerial systems commonly known as drones picture this an army of small drones sampling the lower atmosphere instantly filling the gaps in our forecasting ability. This new technology is starting to find since I was in elementary school and middle school so this has been a dream of mine to be able to have the easy questions I tell us a little bit about who you are what your particular background is and how you got into this uh-huh Super Cell Systems and whatnot but we wanted to have you on because there is a bit more to the story about how drones can help us out with weather uh-huh stations but there's always this each that how can we get better measurements of the lowest layer atmosphere played active role in in helping the forecasting community. I must say though that in high school I switch gears a little bit aching a measurement from a distance and not directly sort exit for example if you're looking at something with your eyes right now that's remote-sensing you're using the you've unmanned aerial systems you as for the monitoring sampling the atmosphere so I had a passion for the weather's visible part of the what we call the electromagnetic spectrum to see you heard him mentioned radar and Sonar and light are lighter uses forecasting and atmospheric sciences. So we're going to go there I'm GonNa get in all into that but as I always like to do with guest on the podcast I like the star and today we're talking about the use of unmanned aerial systems or drones I think people are fascinated by drones you see them there uber harnessing tap into different technologies and how bring those into the into the weather's fear so I worked a lot with but then decided to pursue a path in physics so I have all my degrees in physics but my stream has kept me running parallel what's the difference between a professional unmanned aerial system and when you might buy it a hobby store well the fundamentally I was saved I would say that we have to hold ourselves so slightly higher standards to be able to withstand a variety of weather conditions we have to withstand owns and weather and atmospheric sciences. Thank you for joining us on the weather Geeks podcast Phil thank you for joining us thank you for having me so my name is Dr Phillip Gelson Professor in the School of Meteorology here at the University of Oklahoma I am also the this is really interesting now we've talked about drones on the on the weather Geeks podcast then on the television show with people trying to fly in and around tornadoes storms actor for our center for Qantas since the sampling which for the sake of this discussion were heavily relates to the use of with the cities of the atmosphere but I think this is also allowed me to have a bit of a broader bandwidth maybe so I can help hand in hand with the thorough with the FAA so we can keep ourselves in you know marching along the lines of between in that regard the ones that you can buy at a local supermarket or Mall and prepare the stronger winds we have to have more fail safes in place in so that we can navigate the airspace in in work on here's well so you you heard Phil mentioned remote-sensing so just to Kinda for the listener they may not be a scientist winners remote-sensing well it it is actually light or laser so dr uses sound to make measurements and we can use that information for meteorology so remote sensing is a big part of weather forecasting and analysis among the conflicting airspace can be flying safe with other manned aircraft but that being said at the core they are quite simply it is as you say at a fascinating era and they are becoming ubiquitous but there is a distinct difference doc can just joy flying or collecting videos way with like people understand that we're moving from toys the tools so this well there is a history and I think that the technology has been bumping up against the regulatory get the a lot of the drones that you can buy hobby store it share a lot of common features with the ones that we use for research the more usage of these types of systems in weather tell us a little bit take us back at least from your perspective as an expert in the uh-huh forms of radar and ground based remote sensing liked on light art and so Dr also radio songs and ground-based since what is now I mean little kids are playing with drones outside in the in the park or EC News stations using drones after coverage orb. I think one of the messages that we would like to get to the people is that whereas you know drones can be very fascinating way of going in the one that we're actually designing and building and flying for research and I'm curious because you know I as I mentioned earlier we're starting this a code for a while because I think that the regulatory agency started realizing that we can't allow this phil and we're talking to Dr Phillip Jolson take us back to where did this idea come from the start using drones these unmanned aerial systems requirements for navigating the the you may be the drones into Space Aero Saad was one of the very first dedicated drones for Doing Atmospheric Research Unit was we call it a fixed wings we'd hear fixed her improving athlete another component this really helped this to advance is introduction of the the Armenia aerial systems because potential energy and I want to thank you for joining us on the weather geese podcast some of the things that you mentioned the the things that I've worked on in my career in meteorology I mean I it didn't just kind of come out of nowhere is there a history to this or what are some of the first sort of applications that you're aware of air in the ground based sensing was best game in town so I spent a lot of time doing that but now on myself working more and more using and for many many many years but it's now is when the planets were lining or getting the the the regulations are starting to be relaxed or getting more latitude in where in how we can fly in the sense the the F. A. A. The country they're surly authorities so we can really lay out some very small means that the entry level into a using this technology has been lesson but with that comes a whole activity to just proliferate because it would be harmful for the for the people who were flying with pilots in aircraft died lines of how we can operate both the unmanned manned aircraft in the same pair space so the accent so the idea has been around the rotary wing aircraft first fixed-wing say are easier to control and you don't need as much of a area for taking off landing and so that a earlier part of my career at NASA and I know that NASA has flown things like the large Global Hawk which is a very large unmanned system I think certainly someone that I'm that we admire in this field so thank you for coming on I want to ask you about these larger unmanned aerial systems some of these systems that we've used to explore hurricanes for example and and even just had a colleague on from Nebraska recently for an episode of weather ask this was true in in Europe situ another country's so now we were starting to come in to a better understanding with sweeter problems associated with the fidelity in the accuracy of the measurements that you mentioned so is we've been involved in this nothing like the the Global Hawk or the Manasseh Platform called the the Econo- of these are totally different twenty nine thousand nine your systems are much smaller I mean the tourists system is even smaller than a Global Hawk but the system you're talking about much smaller in size is there any advantage process for over ten years it's been a arduous journey but now it's really exciting time to be involved in the it has since on autopilot and it was doing lots of measurements however the oceans I think that the trail with a masters degree in physics from the University of Florida I won't hold that against you as a Florida State seminoles here but he's certainly a great asset and niece which have their purpose of doing long endurance high altitude flights there are many logistical challenges associated with breath there was it was starting to know metaphorically literally take off but then it had to be dialed back little bit Mrs True Quad Copter and the multi motor vehicle so anything either single rotor helicopter or four six eight you know just being with aircraft this being used in Taurus so it's a tempest in also twister I mean just think about a an airplane with wings just like you might imagine and he's happier plane so this is a fixed wing aircraft that was gas powered the aircraft. If you dial it back then you probably come into the arena what you're describing uh unmanned aircraft systems for doing measurements and we're talking with Dr Phillip Charleston who's a professor in the School of Meteorology at the University of Oklahoma and these were somewhat outfitted in development Bobby University of Colorado the university Bresca has been using those we actually have endurance is not as long as the Lillehaug but you can maybe fly on the order of no eighty yeah I mean they're they're using a fairly large fixed-wing system the fly around super cells as well for the tourists project that's ongoing here eh eighty miles one point the next and then be able to capture the changes in air mass boundaries you know these vehicles are and how long they can stay aloft and with the the ranges on your flight duration so it's a very powerful platform and I really hope to see much more research being done with that type of aircraft you can mount each radar in those you can have you need to operate through an agency like Noah or NASA this is not something for the for the individual ice where severe weather can fire so if you're able to fly that kind of aircraft through and make Trans six then you can get a better understanding of how about for example you believe mayor with addio dry line so the some moist and dry air mass boundaries that come together in that is operating these vehicles but there's great value in the data batch you can retrieve from these definitely fund Global Hall Can Econo our pointing a radar you can have wanting lighter and you can have sensor packages which are just beyond the scope of anything that we can even consider putting on one of those aircrafts also here in our lab that tone that we use and these have the advantage of longer up close to the is safe and be able to back out so another paradigm is to go with a smaller vehicle in and he he's also the director of the University Center for Autonomous Sensing and sampling as you heard he has a BS degree in PhD in physics from Clemson University so we are spending time developing and is is we call it a doctor signed so just like a radio song you can use to have a helium balloon to launch show sensor package upended atmosphere which the weather services the position in the back in that's a very valuable resource for helping us to drive the models disadvantage to a large drone versus a smaller room for these type of work for sure there's days are different commentary systems when you look at it fraught coming through interacting with a mountain ridge on which can generate different kinds of weather patterns you can have different types the universities to get involved with and now they can carry large payloads as you as you said that people may not appreciate really how how massive th-this the surface so you have a heat energy being output from the earth which can help drive convection you can have a major coming you get more homogeneous are at least will behaves you can understand from a sparser networker measurements was happening in you know round the world twice a day they want these packages measure pressure temperature humidity wind speed wind direction is in force short Mrs Bennet Problem that we've recognized for a long time and so by having a ability to analogy to do little mini soundings of the lower part of the atmosphere what what we in meteorology call the boundary layer which is that sort of typically that I our research also being to fly around maybe ten year round but in the vicinity of severe weather and get the atmosphere but as you get closer and closer and closer to Earth surface the atmosphere becomes increasingly more complex because a forcing allergists and so I hadn't really thought about the potential for the use of these systems in that regard I I do know that there has been some discussion about drops your planet can have impact on the weather is your urban meteorology is a big topic so how cities impact the meteorology in Canada Drilon Years Maybe Camman Juries is movement so that's player worries significant role in is one kilometer from the ground up the atmosphere where the land actually communicates with the lower atmosphere so it's a very important part of our atmosphere for me in network or a three d network very good question and this is something which gives me super excited Gotcha can provide and we are put the data into the model so we can know what's happening in the atmosphere but the problem is that they're launched twice a day and this very sparse distribution which provides meteorological or weather information at very high spatial resolution and what that means for the kind of convenient to the non scientists there are more measures people might be surprised at just how large it is actually what are your perspectives on the systems that you're talking about you just described or a much smaller systems copter Dr Song it's like a radio song but it's a copter to go up to a vertical measurement and combine down something profile in then collect that maybe up to a mile mile a half up into the atmosphere is stated that we really been desperately needing Up until now which I think is entered in twenty stations across the state of Oklahoma their ten meter towers which instruments based on locations where these radio SAUZA launched from now one can argue that once you get above a certain level in the atmosphere that was started Ah gap-filling now your University of Oklahoma which already has the outstanding Oklahoma Mezro Net which is a ground base mezro scale network the models they are used by for responders or used by farmers ranchers in general public but is wonderful of resources. This is a a dream that we're pursuing we're working together with the Oklahoma resonates and Allison Jack on the weather Geeks podcast and had having a fascinating conversation with Dr Phillip Chilton from the University of Oklahoma and unmanned aerial systems in the use of weather both for research in temperature moisture that may be important for a weather event is there any thought of attack any type of drone infrastructure for a high density observations Dan for pre- potentially increasing our ability to improve accuracy and forecasting I thought that was a very interesting conversation about the use of the copter a place in the field of atmospheric science and beyond our guest today is Dr Phillip Chilton from the University of Oklahoma who has been working to harness the full potential of drunk L. Prototype of what we're calling as you said a three D. mezzanines so our dream is to take their is to be determined by our ability to work with the FAA up to the just say notionally having a discussion with the director urges yesterday off selecting a few sites that we could start utilizing for a a small scale outgrown unattended autonomously operationally it would go up into the atmosphere to a height that still need midst spaced apart very closely relatively speaking so that we can really resolve some of the things that you heard Phil mentioned earlier dry lines and a small differences measurement based on sensors on the tower in they report the data back every five minutes and they're heavily used by the weather forecast community it is limited to ten meters so what if you had a station where you could have could launch a small take down understand that level of that was fear than most of the technologies that we have just followed wind direction comes back down reporting these data bass mealtime onto a central reciprocal Receiving hub in these are in one to two kilometers so it it makes a travel wanted to atmosphere is sampling pressure temperature humidity wind speed spirit fluid on a rotating body that's changing and we're using computer models that need data input into them oftentimes many of the weather processes that are gaps one of the questions we meteorologists always faces wire there sometimes missed forecast one of the reasons is that we're we're modeling and a sweet spot of the spatial distribution R- also trying to determine won't be sweet spot as far as how often the the pursuing by doing computational simulations in trying to do analysis on a model sphere to determine what would be worthily by putting those data into the forecast models than we can improve the the granularity and fidelity of the most likely we don't need one of these three day mezzanine stations at every one of the ground based business station so that's something that Mir tweaking canvas a better system measurements yet lower atmosphere which has been kind of under sample history balloon goes up twice a day and we know that whether doesn't happen twice a day it happens continuously so this idea of three d. mezro net where you're you're filling in these tatum of flights and then we are feel pretty strongly about the idea that one go unresolved they just are missed by the network of observations because they may be to space too far apart or we may not take them often enough for example typically a weather we just kind of take a step back for the listener because again fillon is sort of in this field so we know the value of high resolution measurements are filling data amazing this is brilliant I mean I I think you're very much on the something I host weather Geeks podcast but I'm I'm assigned to send a researcher at a major university in Sion's and then populated with these kind of autonomous stations where date are just routinely collected and I would love to say today controls how long does it take to recharge the batteries rely using batteries over liquid fuels just because it's cleaner so maybe on the order of an hour ground-based mezin networks with little drone that can just see it in my head a little drones hovering up at going up and down sampling the atmosphere and then using that data recast that are coming out and then if we can demonstrate this and Oklahoma than we can take the other state business already working with the Kentucky in our models particularly some of the higher resolution the models that are coming along now like the H. R. Model I just think it's ingenious I mean how how how far away from the he to maybe implement this technology on their Ms Annette also on South Alabama in reaching out to some mother tradition and I'm also a member of our advanced radar research center so we are developing a small here fifty do you seek to expand how far away are we from this in your mind well you get on the critical involved so we always have to be able to be conflict so we are scanning the airspace with our radar that developing here to see my area of research has been urban meteorology. I'm I've I've actually worked with colleagues of yours out there in Oklahoma like Jeff for Sarah and and others so when people look over and see a drone flying up is collecting whether becomes a course you're doing that why would you not doing that this is obvious drowns would be launched and we have a deal you would wanna get the datus offerings possible but then there's also the question of how do you recharge palce you have the legal by the way to be flying aircraft manned aircraft always trump your permissions because they have people our requirement so we envisioned for a a station Mike this you would have to be able to scan the airspace because you know this are we fill and and what do you need an obviously went answer is going to be funding and support and oh by the way if you're ever interested in Canada bringing that some prototyping majority states but there's also this push for national Ms Net so really WanNa think big you could have a whole nation covered with business oh feature would be the funding we let me step back a little bit and give you some of the requirements that we see like the data that we're all looking forward to getting so it sounds like a very complex problem and it is and I say that got a bit of work in this area and I and my mind is just racing with all kinds of possibilities even for what you're talking about but this three d mezro Nets so intriguing when people drive by and see her a radar tower they don't think anything wish more about it they just know that that's regarding the data we need to do our forecast this this is dr which have this technology on board so those are the fail safes that we're working with in order to make it the UAB's available to do their thing so that's where we are now I think if we were to be given the permissions and money the radar which is not meant for detecting weather is meant for detecting aircraft in we're trying to make it as cheap as possible ospel to do this from a regulatory perspective and then you have to have the ability to maybe all the grid yum solar charging during the School of Meteorology at the University of Oklahoma and director of the University Center for autonomous syncing and sampling you just heard him look I've been around you've instrument on board is called. ADS be which sends out its location so we can pick up those signals nowhere aircraft we've been working on developing a prototype with his system here am I going to say we're about six to eight months we need to have a way of Housing charging the the drone effort lands need to be able to have communication abilities to driving themselves that you have a person the car we'll have our our station flying in doing it will have people out in the field observing impacting sort of some of the more applications sectors that we as the meteorology enterprise deal with you're absolutely correct in mentioning see for a single station based on current regulation so we at the University of Oklahoma we have re strong radar the pattern that it might be operating then of course you need a very robust hardened drone that can go with a sensor packages will be able to untethering then eventually no pull the people back is still monitor the operations drama central facility but then the idea for weather forecasting but not only weather forecasting this technology could play a role in other areas as well firefighting and Agar Culture Talk to us about what you could see sort of we're sort of take our crystal ball out if we have the system implemented up and running how do you foresee this Westfield for a while now and this three D. mezro network is one of the most exciting things I've heard about in some time and I I spent a lot of time working on and we are back on the weather Geeks podcast I'm talking with Dr Phillip Charleston Professor Oh being no we'll have to have a licensed pilot out there to can oversee the operation just to keep legal but then hopefully we can make a safety case that and on fire weather no firefighting on first response in things that variety I think the area where we have a lot of potential transmit the data back to some central facilitate also for the centrality to be able to communicate to the station case it needs to change the flight you we do have a as a network here in the state of Georgia run by Pam knocks at the University of Georgia so a little selfish sort of a plug their for the effort but what people forget is that been able to navigate that airspace is going A. F. A. A. Injury had right now has a requirement for all aircraft by two thousand twenty which is next year to have a certain type I think there's an a really good opportunity for a partnership between the private sector in the federal agencies to if any general aviation aircraft are coming in if we detect them then we'll have to initiate some kind of on complexion policy ms also very advanced satellite missions NASA and various other places but I I hope I don't sound too exaggerated here but I think this is a game changing join forces in play in the same sandbox so the the the boundary layer me Eh probably set up a mini network pobably with him say on the order five years that could be operating well just Fascinates Arabia's painting so we can put sensors on the commercial drones they may not be restored outs from having one that could run unattended given the regulations what will probably be doing is kind of in the spirit of house self driving cars or official for synergy is with the emerging Ua me for the drone market that we Hi research quality data being collected like for the three D. Mezin Net and another paradigm so there's this and then we feed these data's oggy is an area which maybe doesn't glean a lot of attention from the meteorological community as a whole for the commercial application drums to be able to navigate that airspace so NASA and FAA have already picked up require much better understanding what the weather conditions are M at lower atmosphere the boundary layer so the commit a flight plan it might tell what kind of platform it has in so somebody would be able to make a during the flight leg they might get a green light might get a red light but in order to do that we need to have much better understanding of how the lower atmosphere decision is this particular platform capable of withstanding the kind of weather conditions that might be expected in that here a lot of people talk about package delivery talk about him Miss Liberty we talk about blood samples delivery in on different levels I think we're GONNA be seeing a lot more focused interest in bound to their meteorology because of the need to understand what's happening lower atmospheres for the is going to be critical as we move forward is there's so many so many markets that need better weather forecasting as every start moving to all time certain autonomous vehicle is rated for being able to travel under certain weather conditions may be have a potential prepare to take over control calls the autopilot system in that vehicle hasn't yet evolved to level technology needs to navigate all those thousand sampling drones and delivery turns what would you say to calm the nerves of those people that are worried about this sort of automatons society where we it into the into the models and it's already think getting into the fidelity in the granularity improvements in those aspects upon that and they're developing something code UTM so as you es traffic management so you can think about an air traffic controller for or UAB's was vehicles on the roads they need to be able to anticipate what type of weather conditions are moving into it could be that comes in you can imagine that a drone may menu maybe company says I'd like to fly my drawn from point eight A. Point B. yet have drones delivering packages and sampling the atmosphere and cars driving around by themselves would you sort of say there is improving our observational network and so what we're talking about in in this podcast today honestly believe with the proper support and implementation assume from the public helps allow the scientists to be honest brokers in how the we develop in package forecasting but the way we're going to move the needle with these sort of short timeframe weather events thunderstorms you know really develop quickly rapidly there's a certain side of me that much encourages bat skepticism on the public because I think this we're going to improve for forecasting very good right now we've made significant strides over the last several decades where I think a golden era of accuracy the driver in the in the with the person is in a relaxed mode he say okay you can expect either icing conditions or dense fog surrounding it only realized that no harm no foul am that actually societies have improved according to it and then doc in the next town in the next ten minutes so you might need to can change this evening the personal car or the truck or whatever to be harmful situation which brings people's lives in danger but I really think that is going oh fees and things of that variety nobody even has any qualms about that whatsoever so it is good that people are ah Thomas syncing instruments what would you say

Oklahoma School of Meteorology University of Oklahoma Super Cell Systems Dr Phillip Gelson FAA UAB Qantas Canada University Center Phil Professor Mike director Allison Jack scientist EC News Jeff
AP Headline News Mar 29 2019 21:00 (EDT)

AP Radio News

04:29 min | 2 years ago

AP Headline News Mar 29 2019 21:00 (EDT)

"This February history will be made millions will watch as eighty years of unjust stigma is left in the past a product that drove good people to the black market will be revealed as one that's creating a new global market, this February what inspired the symbol of counterculture will at long last be seen as just culture. The new normal is coming. Will you be one of the first to see it? Visit men dot com to watch an exclusive preview. During wire Democrats in congress insist they want all special counsel Robert Mueller suport on the rush investigation by next Tuesday. Not the version attorney general William bars were bearing that would include reductions of grand jury testimony classified information and information that could impact ongoing investigations Maryland. Congressman Jamie Raskin says he doesn't trust bar. Well, it's yet another depressing and disappointing turn in this unfortunate sequence of events. The whole thing has the growing with whitewash in a letter that chairs a both the house and Senate Judiciary committee's Barbara Muller is helping the Justice department identify sections that we'll be blacked out in the public version. He expects to release it in a couple of weeks. President Trump is threatening to close the border with Mexico unless Mexico take steps to keep Central American migrants away from the border. We're not gonna give them hundreds of billions of dollars and. And tell them that they're not going to use their strong immigration laws to help the United States. So there's a very good likelihood that I'll be closing the voter next week, the US chamber of commerce says closing the border could threaten five million jobs in the US, a former university of Oklahoma student alleges he was touched and kissed inappropriately by former school president David born API sent Sean Murphy reports from Oklahoma City, a former student at the university who worked as a teaching aid for born when he was twenty one a little less than a decade ago has now come forward publicly and said he was the victim of inappropriate sexual conduct by born while he was a student at the university the Seventy-seven-year-old born is denied any inappropriate conduct. He was Oklahoma's governor in the nineteen seventies in the Senate for fifteen years, and oh you president from nineteen Ninety-four before stepping down last year. This is a P radio news. A federal judge sentences a man to prison for twenty years for swatting calls around the country, California man who made a hoax call that led police to fatally shoot at unarmed and Kansas has been sentenced to twenty years in prison. Tyler bears pleaded guilty in November two fifty one charges related to fake calls and threats. There's got into a dispute with two other people over a dollar fifty bet on call of duty World War Two in retaliation bears, minted emergency. Call reporting a bogus shooting and hostage situation and police who responded shot an unarmed. Wichita man, Andrew Finch who opened the door at the former address of a gamer involved in the dispute bears. Apologize to finish his family court and says he takes full responsibility for what happened. The victim sister. Dominica Finch says barest got what he deserved. I'm Jennifer king of Virginia woman is accused of embezzling more than ninety three thousand dollars from the company where she worked as a bookkeeper. The Stafford county sheriff's office says Vanessa Klein used the money to pay for an all-terrain vehicle airline tickets are wedding and a buttocks lift I'm Tim Maguire radio news. This year. I will chew one hundred seventeen number two pencils? I will doodle nine. Staples notebooks today when it comes to school supplies. It's guaranteed. Your kids will go through a lot a whole lot of airplanes. Our lose my backpack. That's why you get guaranteed savings for back to school at Staples are giveaway. My last ten to Nathan in math class gift guaranteed savings at Staples. And right now when subject notebooks for just a penny with a five dollar purchase. Staples that was easy. Ballot on select skews while supplies last. Limit six and eight thousand five twelve. This year. I will chew one hundred seventeen number two pencils? I will do to nine. Staples notebooks today when it comes to school supplies. It's guaranteed. Your kids will go through a lot a whole lot of paper airplanes. I will lose my backpack. That's why you get guaranteed savings for back to school at Staples giveaway. My last pen to Nathan in math class gift guaranteed savings at Staples. And right now when subject notebooks for just a penny with a five dollar purchase. Staples that was easy balance elect skews while supplies last. Limit six and eight thousand five twelve.

Staples Congressman Jamie Raskin Nathan United States president Mexico Robert Mueller President Trump special counsel US chamber of commerce Tyler bears Oklahoma Dominica Finch university of Oklahoma Senate Oklahoma City Senate Judiciary Wichita Maryland
Special: Sports, Racism And The Myth Of Meritocracy

Only A Game

49:04 min | 10 months ago

Special: Sports, Racism And The Myth Of Meritocracy

"Only a game I'm Karen Given I WANNA start today's show at the movies because I've been thinking a lot lately about the messages Hollywood sends about sports and race. One of the first thing that comes to mind is rocky one which is kind of a weird place. That's former only game producer. NIKO IMAC Apollo. Creed comes out, and it's a huge spectacle. Anyway champion. He's. An vote by contrast with rockies kind of humble I'm just a guy from the neighborhood. I'm just GONNA. Come out in my sweats and do my thing. Flow. Another example that comes to mind is Jerry, Maguire. It's great that they're so confident in their abilities, but it does kind of hearkens back to a time of. And jiving and it's really disappointing to see time and time and time again. Sports are often seen as a place where. Is Hard Work and talent a police that somehow immune to systemic racism of place where African Americans can get ahead, or at least that's how sports are portrayed in pop culture consider movies that focus on black athletes. They come from extreme poverty. Have them before. To Yourself. But in a blindside, you know it's family white family that basically adopts a black kid who proves his worth because he's great football. This is Eric Dagens. He's a TV critic for NPR. The film is mostly from the perspective of the way family that is taking him in. And it turned away from some of the deeper questions that it could have investigated about what you know. What happens when society is set up in such a way that the the best option for young black man is to leave everybody he knows. Go live with a white family. Like. And the situations that he lives in are presented as a result of choices that individual people make and the whole systemic part of it. Doesn't really exist for the film. You're only getting a certain perspective from these kind of movies in these tropes that you need to them in the real life, which can be really really really problematic. Nico and Eric Aren't the only ones who see big issues with the blindside, which by the way is the highest grossing sports movie of All Time? Definitely, the white hero coming in that's only a game contributor and the game last night host Olivia Christian teaching lessons about life in general and don't give up trying to explain challenges to African Americans as if they had no idea, life would be difficult until this person showed up. You know like a coach that shows up into the hood and. These, guys have no hope that's the athletics. Michael Lee. He starts to discover that maybe he's more bigoted. Any ought, and these kids are helping understand that he's gotta be cool. They teach them. How To dance may be performed a rap song. All great that story plays out I think at least seventy five million times in the movies. What was it will be with? Reeves is a baseball movie. It's Kanye Reeves. He's a gambler. It's called Hardball Harbor Yeah Yeah The movie that always POPs in my head. Chatter Reeves goes as Uganda in the housing developments. Gets this ragtag team together. No one can say anything bad anyone else on the field. They win the championship. Just a guy who's a gambler. It's not even like he's an ex baseball player. He's just a white guy who comes. And saves the day. You're trying to create a message of equality. This is Jerry Brewer from the Washington Post, but the larger message can be misconstrued as it takes a white person to give credibility to a black person so that we can thrive and That's a very dangerous message to send. There are a lot of myths about what sports can do, but the biggest of them all is the myth that sports can somehow solve racism. You see it time, and again in movies in forty two invictus, and perhaps most famously to thousands remember the titans listen up. Black Green Blue White Orange I want. All of my defensive plays on this side. Going off it. Right now remember the titans like anytime on off and on on a Saturday afternoon. When I'm trying to complete my honeydew list and I sit and I'll watch it. It's a great movie, but there is something weird about okay. We're GONNA. Solve our locker room. Tension by everybody's saying in the locker room. Look first of all a lot of moves are very good in entertaining, which is why they also are so slide and slick about this Dr Amirah rose. Davis teaches history and African, American studies at Penn. state and she co host the podcast. Burn it all down there very very clear to ground in the past like this is the past, and it's a bunch of microaggressions in this one like big mean, racist moment, and then there's a lot of white people in the. The movie teammates are otherwise who are like. Oh, I see it now, so I watched remember the titans for the first time last weekend it set in nineteen, seventy, one and based on the true story of the forced integration of a high school in Virginia. There's a football coach played by Denzel, Washington and when he moves to town, someone throws a brick through his window. But when the team starts winning, all of the coaches, neighbors come out of their houses to cheer. John. What is white neighbors have accepted him if they were losing. People are not coming together because they've suddenly had an opening experience about racism, people are coming together because they are winning, but instead of amplifying that point instead of the end saying. Oh. Yes, see what can happen when you win, it becomes. This was transformative. People say that it can't work black and white well here. We make it work every day. We have our disagreements of course. But before we reach for hate, always always we remember the titans. winning. The championship didn't win. Coming in second place in the state does not solve the structural racism integration in Virginia. And so we, we get lulled into a sense of reaching a mountain top of a mountain. We're still climbing. Former only game producer Niko. E. Mack is also familiar with remember the titans of course with Denzel. One of my favorites, the actor, not the movie. I saw it as a kid. It's a great story about learning about each other through sports, but then you get bit older and you realize that okay. That's a little bit more. It's only scratching the surface. Everyone kind of gets to pat themselves on the back and say I saw racism. You know it reminds me a lot of kind of this social media activism that we're seeing right now. Where people post the Black Square or companies post the Black Square, but at the end of the day they go home. They say up jobs done I did my part when you know that's it's great. It's good, but again it's just doing the bare minimum. It's not pushing yourself to an uncomfortable place to really explore some of those themes and topics. So that's what we're GONNA do on today's show. We're going to ask ourselves the comfortable questions. We're going to show that sports isn't this mythical Disney world where everyone is equal and racism is a thing only found in history books. In fact, we're going to detail some of the ways in which sports in the US actually perpetuate systemic inequality, and we're going to talk to some people who are trying to imagine a better system we call this show the myth of meritocracy, because there's a belief in sports that all that matters is talent and hard work. It makes me laugh. It really does only because we cling to the myth. Mirta crecy so much despite all evidence to the contrary that Samir rose. Davis again when she talks about this, she likes to use track and field as a metaphor. It's really easy to look at the starting line of one hundred meter race and feel like everybody has equitable champion. I think that's really seductive. But no that the person at the one position might have better spikes might have better grips had a lifetime of access to resources that conditioning them to be where they are, and the person next to them might just be there on raw talent. Sport is of this world in our world is deeply deeply inequitable in that's just the facts. And when it comes to youth sports, those inequities are actually growing. Here's only a Games Jonathan Chang. When Otto lowy was eight or nine years old. His Mom signed him for Youth Baseball. He had already been playing soccer, but why not try another sport? That first season automate the All star team. But that came at a cost literally. Being an all-star meant more travel and higher fees. So Ottawa's mom gave him an ultimatum. Choose like listen you really good at sports, but you gotTa Pick One just pick a sport. Whatever you want will make the boasts of it and I think you'll be amazing. Auto soccer, but this issue of young athletes having to give up sports because of money. It happens all the time kids that really young ages get weeded out, and there's sort of this haves versus have nots depending on how much money you have John. Solomon of the Aspen. Institute gathers data on Youth Sports. We have research that shows that kids who are from lower income. Households are far more likely to not be playing sports on a regular basis compared to higher income households. And for Auto, even sticking with just soccer was going to be taught. As he got older. The costs rose. This was back in the late nineties and auto says he was paying around two thousand dollars a season as a middle schooler. When he got to high school. Then you're looking at upwards of like two five three K.. Unlike a lot of kids, facing rising costs auto was able to arrange another way to pay from eighth grade onto my senior year me and my mom would paint soccer fields Friday night prior to the Saturday Sunday games, so that's like about six or seven fields. Just me and her, because that was the only way I was going to play. Auto? Story represents a growing problem over the course of the past state thirty years. We've had defunding of sports within our communities and school systems. That's the University of Oklahoma is Dr Karston ECKSTROM. She Studies Race and college sports. A parallel occurrence has happened alongside that which is we've had an increase of private clubs popping up to replace what once was done by low-cost recreational or school sports, and there's a reason family sometimes go to extreme lengths to try and give. Give their kids an opportunity to participate in these programs, even basketball and football, which are the two sports that still remain the most common sports sponsored across schools in America. You aren't becoming a college basketball star just by playing high school basketball. You have to be joining these travel teams. He's a teams even after auto and his mom found the way to pay for high level soccer. There are moments when people try to make him feel like he didn't belong. One time I forgot my water bottle and a team mate of mine. He was like hey. I'll give them extra bottle from other brother like cool. Thank you so much appreciate it. So I'm drinking the water talking to the two year old kid like helping me out, and as I'm walk away or vividly the parent literally like never drink from that black boy again ever in your life. To the two year old kid who has no idea what's going on? Waste water out. Completely Look back, and I watch it all full I'm just like wow, and then mind you. There are numerous occasions where little rich white kids to try to get on. My nerves would just pulled inwards much again to give you out. So that was just a normal occasion. Growing up in a predominantly black neighborhood in inner city outlander auto didn't just get the sense that he didn't belong in soccer from white families. He also got it from the black. It was the Michael Jordan era. And in my Katie they're like you don't have to play soccer like that's not a sport for you. That's for the rich white kids up north. You need to play football or basketball with us. The people saying this to auto nee might have thought they had his best interests at heart. After all in the US, there's more money in those sports. And INA society that so stacked against them and their children black parents according to an Aspen, institute study are more likely than white parents to view youth sports as a means to an end. Here's John Solomon Again, so parents of American youth rated the pursuit of a college scholarship as twenty three percent, more important than white parents and a pro sports opportunity as twenty six percent more important, that's a form of internalized oppression that black families may not even be cognizant of that. There are engaging in Derek Jackson writes about sports and race for ESPN's the undefeated, so black families. Families at some point end up, okay, this is what society's telling me. My kid is going to have the best shot at doing because let's face it. In American society. The way our society set up the most quote positive image we get of black men is when they are playing ball. Professor Scott Brooks of the global. Sport Institute at Arizona State University says when young athletes make sports their main priority that can have a much longer term consequence nave put everything else set aside. They're not as focused on school or school only as it pertains to keep an eligible. They're not pursuing creative things like art music, even so much. This is everything and when that ends, and often not of your own volition. All of these things that our senses of your purpose that goes away. Eventually audited earned an athletic scholarship to play soccer at winthrop university in South Carolina. And in twenty eleven, he signed an MLS contract with the New England revolution. Unlike the vast majority of kids who devote themselves to sports auto actually did make it to the pros. Looked like the years of investment might actually pay off. But, then he injured his back like a ruptured discs between L. Four, zero five, and I was released auto play one season in the MLS. Humane just forty two thousand dollars. Later auto got a job as a marketing analyst on top of that, he started coaching youth soccer. In Two thousand sixteen, he became an assistant coach for the Atlanta, United Academy. In a country where youth sports is dominated by the pay to play model, this was supposed to be different. AMAS academies cover most financial needs. Except, transportation, not travel the bus rise in flights for out of town competition, but getting from home to the team facility in downtown Atlanta and back. Auto says that some of the academy's players didn't have easy access to public transportation or parents who have time to drive them to practice I'll put my hand up. I will go pick them up myself. And I would drive them. There and another coach offered to drive them back. Without autos help some. The academy's players would have had a much harder time staying on the team. But Penn State's Dr Amirah Rose Davis says individual volunteers are not a solution to the larger systemic problems to be very think this happens a lot. Like anytime, somebody shares a gofundme me and is like. This is such a feel good story. That's not a feel good story indictment of the system when we see a young black boy, get out of under-resourced police community by way of Athletic Scholarship. That's not a feel good story indictment of the system, some of these ready-made digestible narratives are they digestible because we swallowed what we were fed without paying attention to what the ingredients were. Coming up, we'll tackle the digestible narrative. That sports is a pathway to college for Young Black, athletes. That's just ahead on only a game from NPR. Hey I'm Sam Sanders. Host of it's been a minute. There is a lot going on in the world, so on my show, my guest tonight make sense of the news and culture through conversation. It feels like we're living in three movies at once. Put it was like Mike. Judge Movie. Like Spike. Lee Movie and it feels like Michael Bay movie like. Every Tuesday and Friday listen and subscribe now to. It's been a minute from NPR. I'm Karen Given. We're looking at the myth of meritocracy and the ways sports perpetuate racial inequalities in the US. It doesn't just happen in youth sports. It happens at the college level too big news at Brown University on Thursday. The school is dropping eleven. Varsity programs going the efforts to save one of Brown's most averse teams raise issues about who really benefits from college sports. Here's a games Martin Kessler not long after starting at Princeton in two thousand nine Russell. Dinkins knew he'd entered a very different culture. The first weekend campus after classes start person. Has Something called Lawn parties where they have some sort of big concert. Bunch of different musical performances things like that. What stood out to Russell was. What is new? Classmates were wearing so all these people walk around with Pastel colored everything boat shoes, and I'd say I'd what is this? I didn't even know what spit I didn't know what Sperry's were. Only what are these things? People wearing other incoming freshmen seem to already know the dress code. I thought okay. Maybe dress like that. I looked at my clock. I didn't have anything that looked remotely anything like that. Purposefully remember worrying sweatpants and Black Air Forces. I death leap `bout. As if I was being defiant because I was, but also, which is active preservation, because I didn't have those close wrestle grew up in inner city Philadelphia, just a pretty quiet regular working class majority black neighborhood, you know Slava, mommas and daddies get on the bus to work Russell was mostly raised by his mom and in a lot of ways, history fits a narrative people like to believe about sports in America because Russell ran track, and he was good good enough that Princeton wanted him I didn't think that I was capable of going to the Ivy League. Looking at schools with academic profile until Princeton called me and said no, your grades are good. You're running well. We want you. In that made me Oh my gosh I Princeton I can go there, so that was transformed for me. You know life altering. It's a story sports as a vehicle for social mobility that we get fed in movies. We the projects baby where we gonNA live. Such west. A. Bit House the week here in music. shortstop. Swing, classic rock gotTA wicked wickets upset. It's a story. The NCAA itself loves to promote. It's not about where you were born. For the color of skin. This is from quote UNQUOTE PSA NC Double A. played out in two thousand seventeen. If you have the skill and drive to succeed in school and in sports. Will provide the opportunity. But when Russell Dinkins got to Princeton, he didn't find a lot of other athletes who looked like cam looking back on it. Yeah the athletes were wait. You know even or basketball team was pretty white, which is kind of really hilarious in the Whiteness of college, athletics isn't unique to Princeton or even the Ivy League. We know across divisions, one two and three about seventy two percent of college, athletes who are women are white, and then in terms of men, sixty four percent are white. That's Oklahoma's Dr Kirstin Hagstrom again. She says those numbers are actually probably underestimates because they only take into account scholarship at it's because we see black men represented in two of the most visible sports I e basketball and football, it disguises the fact that remain thirty eight sports that are sponsored by the NCAA are predominantly played by white and middle class athletes. See Colleges and especially elite colleges offer a number of Varsity sports. You probably won't find in Public School Gym, Class. There's golf skiing fencing, Lacrosse Water, Polo, field, hockey, sailing, lightweight and heavyweight crew for both genders squash teams Russell Dinkins again. These kinds of sports aren't really accessible to people without a certain amount of means. This really matters because elite colleges reserve coveted admission spots for athletic recruits, and it's not an insignificant number of spots. Approximately thirteen percent of Yale's classy cheer is made up of recruited athletes according to the Washington Post at Davidson. College it's around twenty five percent. In two thousand, eighteen, the Atlantic. This college sports are affirmative action for rich white students, white and middle class communities have intentionally, and explicitly over time sought out sports to advantage themselves in the college process. One of the ways we can think about this is that. People who grew up in white middle class communities are accelerating their advantage by pursuing sports. Kirstin Hagstrom says there's really just four NCWA sports that draw significant number of athletes of Color Basketball football, baseball and track and field, which brings us to just a few weeks ago. That's when Russell Dinkins. WHO, since graduating from? Princeton, in two thousand thirteen has worked in education and in diversity inclusion learned that Brown. University was cutting its men's track and field team. I remember being very upset, but for some reason I wanted to believe that there had to be some reason. For this decision like what? I don't know but I was hoping that I was going to go to the schools website and I was going to read their decision and say okay. This makes sense I was just hoping. I'm a please make it make sense. The university was cutting eleven varsity teams, including men's track and field, and also elevating sailing to Varsity status. Brown President Christina Paxson said the school wanted to make its sports teams more competitive Brown. University is embarking on a bold plan to reshape athletics for student athletes here she is in a video posted to the schools website. This is a strategic initiative to redistribute resources to elevate the excellent Varsity and club sports at Brown. She also said the move quote aligns with our diversity and inclusion efforts expanding opportunities in competitive club sports. Then I got angry then I got mad, because not only were the arguments like nonsensical in my view, but they also were misleading. The way that is being presented makes it seem like club and Varsity or at the same level club teams do not get funding from the university in a major way they. Don't give recruiting spots Russell knew that if men's track and field was no longer a varsity team, there would be even fewer of those coveted recruiting spots for sports often played by people of Color I went on to browse website, and they counted the number. Black guys are on the roster for track and then I looked up baseball crew. Ice Hockey and Lacrosse. Black is on track and field than all of the other sports combine some other sports, and I have a single black person. Some those other sports and I have a single non white person on them. Wrestle connected with Brown track alums. The thought the story deserves national attention. Russell decided to write something up. I'm person without a platform. You know I think. I had four hundred dollars on twitter, one as wonder. Right my ideas out to get him out. Wrestle also thought he could send what he wrote to media outlets in hopes that they'd cover the story themselves, so we got to work I worked like pretty much all day on it. And, how was part of you remember what? That I gonna read, but. That's how I feel every week. But I posted it Alec. Eleven PM woke up in the morning. I think in the morning I had one thousand or two thousand views, and then it just started snowballing. Brown track alums also continued working to save the team. And then twelve days after Brown's initial announcement, the university said it was reinstating men's track and field team, and so what I found out overjoyed I, remember I made it instagram. Live this motion, L- you guys know? I did not go to Brown. But I felt personally impacted by this decision and I needed to fight for that kid. Whose name will never know? Because them taking away that spot, that kid could have life changing opportunity. So Brown men's track and field team has been saved, but when it comes to college sports and Racial Inequities University of. Professor, Kirstin Hagstrom says we're actually moving in the wrong direction. In two thousand, seventeen, ESPN's the undefeated published an analysis called the gentrification of college hoops, which looked at the percentage of division college athletes who are first generation college students as in kids whose parents did attend college. In two, thousand ten, that number was just sixteen point one percent by two thousand fifteen. It had dropped fourteen point two percent. So in spite of the NC Double A. Psa About College Sports, providing opportunity for everyone, the vast majority of its athletes are white, and only a small and seemingly decreasing fraction are first generation college students, not exactly the path for upward mobility that many would like to believe so. Yes, I, think like many of the gaps, the wealth gap the racial achievement gaps, these gaps have increased over time and very systematic ways. And even for the black men and women who are able to use sports as a means of upward mobility inequities persist once they get to campus for twenty five years. Journalists Derek Jackson has been following the graduation rates of white and Black College football and basketball players. You have many football teams where the white graduation rate is eighty percent and above. Whereas, the black graduation rates are more like fifty to sixty five percent. Jackson believes we need to think much bigger than trying to preserve or create more pathways for young black men and women to enter college through sports I think we really need to see sports as a very very chequered. Pathway, not necessarily negative. But I do think we really have to see it for what it is. And what I mean by. That is for black people. Sports ends up being something that they are channeled into. After being denied. Full aspirations for anything else. When we get back from the break, we'll hear about the way sports and the way they're talked about on TV perpetuate racism and inequality for black people who never even step onto a field there probably is not a black man alive today, who has not been asked if they're an athlete as as if we can do nothing else, but catchable or run around a track that's coming up and remember you can follow us on facebook and twitter at only a game NPR. She was once undocumented. Now she writes about the undocumented immigrants. We often ignore day-laborers, housekeepers, deliveryman people who don't inspire Hashtag. T shirts. That's coming up on coats which? I'm Karen Given. We all know what racism in sports sounds like right. It sounds like the late Don Imus on his radio show back in two thousand, seven awesome rough girls rutger man. They got tattoos and. Some hardcore host. Two sociologists recently published a study that looked at a decade's worth of March. Madness broadcasts, and they found that sometimes racial bias sounds like this. That's tough match-up for JJ redick on the glass, radic not known as a rebounder, tasma mic, much stronger, bigger and more athletic graddick, mean, of course we can highlight some of these bigger comments that most people would consider to be racist. That's Dr. Rashawn. Bray Bray? He teaches sociology at the University of Maryland College Park, but instead we were highlighting in many ways is implicit bias in the subtle ways that race actually operates when it comes to talking about some of these historical stereotypes about what it means to be black and physically superior, and at the same time intellectually inferior, and on the other hand what it means to be lighter, skinned or white. Dr Ray and his Co author Dr Steven Foy of the University of Texas Rio, Grande Valley transcribed fifty two men's College basketball broadcasts including eleven championship games. They were looking at the ways. Broadcasters talk about players, a different skin tones, and whether racial bias was at play. Are People talking about the size and height of darker skin tone players because they're actually larger, or are they talking about them? Them in that way because of stereotypes about them being larger, so they tracked all of the data about the actual size and skill of the players points per game rebounds per game assists per game fans per game. We took into account. All of those factors and we still found their skin tone in race in a lot of ways was the most significant factor determining how commentators talk about players. We've talked about Matt Howard, and how crafty he is Jim, shires much the same way has a perimeter player knows how to use. At six five very effectively to get into the lane. So crafty. You found that this is often a word used to describe white players right? Yes most definitely I mean. When we went into this, we thought that we will see commentators talking a lot about just the the raw intellect of players, but we didn't find that at all I mean there were a few instances where they talked about the intellect, and oftentimes there was directly linked to their. GPA was a very small percentage of our sample. What we found more so with these subtle ways that they talked about crafting this clip talked about two players, and then interesting leaving talked about how these players supposedly uses their craft in this to actually do something physical. The way it comes out for lighter skinned players. If it was a darker skin player, they wouldn't have mentioned craftiness instead they would have talked about their ability to jump up and get the rebound some kind of physical way so here it is the same action something simple like jumping for rebound and all of a sudden it completely transposes the way the players are talked about okay, so this is a little later. In that same broadcast where the two white players were called crafty, here's how announcers described a black player incomes, streaky sneaky, Willie Veasley. Offensive rebound the for his size. and. He just weasel his way to the bank. So I'm assuming that something you would have flagged as being a difference absolutely when you hear, the words weasel out and sneaky yeah I. Mean the connection with that. It has to to thinking about kind of non human. Type of behaviors, kind of weasel out is more animalistic, right it has this criminal sneaky element to it, and these are the ways that we hear darker skin. Players talked about in ways that we don't hear lighter skinned players talked about of course. None of this is new, if became plane as I was growing up, and more and more African American athletes became prominent and ended the sports. White players agreed why players are smart. african-american athletes have quote unquote natural abilities. That's only a game analyst Charlie Pierce in basketball. If somebody did a remarkable move, nobody's seen before it was dismissed as playground stuff when Bob. COUSY did it? It was genius if you look at white players as more imbued with intelligence than players. Who you going to give the jobs for coaching and general manager, too when they retire, we see that answer before that's journalists. Derek Jackson again. Derek says these stereotypes play out when black people apply for other jobs too, and that ultimately has massively damaging effects across all of American society there probably is not a black man alive today, who has not at one point or another been asked. If they're an athlete, it's as if we can do nothing else, but catch a ball or dunk it around the track I teach a race gender in sports class at Penn State. This is Dr Mirror Rose Davis again and every semester without fail. The non athlete black kids in my class. Tell stories of how many times it was assumed that their athletes I had one student particularly who was six to black and white guy. WHO said he doesn't have a week on campus and he was a junior. He doesn't have a week on campus in which those not some assumption about a team that he belongs to. And so what happens is the messages that are then sent in places of higher education or elite, private schools in the high school level, or even at the youth level is that if you're black and indies educational spaces, it must be because of athletics, and not because of your mind right, so the other tragedy of that story of the young man I was talking about as he talks about how their face fell, and the conversation always seem to fizzle out once. They realized he was not actually on the football team. And the message that he received that his value his value to the university. His values white classmates has value of even occupying the space of Penn. State University was tied only to what he could have produced on the field. Talk about damaging. That's damage. We tend to put sports on such a pedestal that white Americans think it's a compliment to be asked if you're an athlete, actually no. I might want to run a bank. I might want to be a scientist I write about science and. Your book talks and it's my answers, but people like. How did you get involved? So, the myth of meritocracy isn't just affecting athletes in youth, sports or athletes in College, sports or athletes in the pros. It turns out these issues of racism and inequity in sports. They're affecting everyone. So what can we do? Who such a great question I hope that. By every injury we can see this is all hands on deck type of thing. That's Penn state professor and burn it all down. Co Host Dr Amirah Rose Davis again. It's about how all of these different parts of what we call. Sports are interconnected and woven together to create the landscape that we know sports, and so that means that we need to address racism and inequity from. From all of these different angles, so you sports is a huge place to start. An often gets left out of the conversation youth. Sports is a twenty five billion dollar industry that funnels black kids into basketball and football and track, but leaves out those who can't pay to play. Davis says taking money out of sports in any way that we can help a lot of things. And then as we move up through the collegiate into the professional levels, we have to get serious about hiring a diverse coaching staffs in guidance counselors and sports media really needs to get it together. We've been saying that for a while, but it's true. They really do Um, and so I think that it's one of those things where there's not one easy answer. There's not any easy answer, but they're certainly not one. Over the past few weeks, I've heard a lot of ideas on how sports could be made more equitable and less racist, and all of them seem like they would help. Should we consider penalising universities that don't graduate? They're black athletes. Absolutely that would help. Can we change the rules of college recruiting to limit some of the advantages? Wealthy athletes have including unlimited unofficial visits to schools. Absolutely that would help. Do we need to find ways to make youth sports cheaper and more? To all absolutely that would help, but there's a problem with simply reforming the current sports system. The long view of it is that institutions have always been designed and built in ways to advantage white elite men in particular. That's Dr, Kirstin Hoekstra again. She studies race and sports at the University of Oklahoma every reform. In the existing system is going to have severe consequences to it. People with advantage are going to be more skilled at finding ways to get around that reform. So just like pretty much everyone else. We spoke with Hoekstra. Encourages us to think bigger too often. We focus on these kind of niche in specific policies. I kind of want us to look at how we could kind of reimagined sports as a whole so similar to the conversations. We're having policing. What would new sport forums that truly are equitable look like, and that might mean coming up with new types of sports in and of themselves, so for instance we have in the United States. We have games that are based on dominance and competition and I. Think we should re imagine that and think about what what is it that we like? And what are some of the benefits of sports that we WANNA. Keep you know such as physical health wellness community, and really try to imagine sports that map along those lines more. So, what if instead of investing in basketball and soccer teams communities provided access to Tai Chi and recreational swimming pools biking trails. What if colleges instead of spending millions of dollars hiring the best football coaches spent their money on sports. The entire student body could play. They might no longer involve competing against other universities. They just be about students playing games amongst themselves I. I know I know that idea seems crazy, and maybe even impossible, but there's a bigger challenge that are experts mentioned. Yes, even bigger than dismantling all of sports and imagining something better and that challenge really doesn't have anything at all to do with sports. What we really need to do is dismantle the structural racism that underlies everything in our society, not just start games. We are long past Jackie Robinson. Journalists Derek. Jackson were long pass Hank Aaron, my hero! Were Long Pass. Oscar Robertson Kareem and we're still at a place where black people don't even have significant power in the one thing that society has said they're good at. So he'll chase Jack Nicklaus. But. He follows Jackie Robinson as a man. Who broke barriers men who? Transcended their sport? Twenty three years ago. Tiger Woods won the masters by a record twelve strokes. The moment was hailed as a tipping point. This was proof. They said that racism in sports was a thing of the past that anything was possible with hard work and talent, and this is what Derek Jackson wrote for the Boston Globe Tiger Woods is the latest comic Strip in America's never ending search for Black Superman. After his victory and the Masters Golf Tournament in New York Times headline, said woods tears down barriers. The Baltimore Sun called it a day of broken barriers and the Los Angeles Times said barriers are buried. Jackson wasn't buying it. In America, that was serious about ending racism would never have maintained the barriers for a woods to shatter in the first place. True barriers broken when white people stop smothering and drowning black aspiration. True Berries will be broken when the fat cats who cheered woods on the golf course start hiring and promoting people of color ethanol businesses, true barriers will be broken when white people who hail woods, multicultural blend of bloodlines, truly welcome multicultural classrooms in education. Race relations will not improve as long as white people stand safely on other side of the wall, cheering the precious few who can leave them with a single bound? The people of metropolis have no right to claim. Woods is their new superhero when they hand black people so much Kryptonite. Jackson says he doesn't feel like much has changed since nineteen ninety-seven and this idea that black athletes can lift themselves out of poverty and transcend the effects of systemic racism so sick of that narrative. A play. A black player comes to the line. Shooting a free throw, and you can almost like telegraph it before it even starts. What a wonderful kid! He comes up from the tough upbringing and he's survived all that and you know. Why do we make our black kids survive anything I think the point is to have a larger conversation so that we're not only focused on that moment of upward mobility, but we're asking. Why was it required? Dr Mirror Rose Davis. Why are these the only opportunities for black eve both historically and now? I got a grandfather that March next Dr. King in the sixties. And he was amazing. He will be proud to see us all here. With athletes like the NBA's Malcolm Brogdon joining protests against police brutality. Maybe we are actually getting closer to a tipping. Not one that's caused by a singular black athlete, winning a game or setting a record, but one that's caused by ground swell of people demanding change what we're seeing right now in the reaction of the killings of so many black people what we're seeing with the disparities of covert and terms like systemic racism, finally gaining currency, thank goodness, we can no longer uncritically celebrate the singular people like tiger, woods, or Jackie Robinson or Hake Aaron. Sure sports has been an enormous force for good for many African. Americans. Some like Princeton's rustled. Dinkins Credit College Sports with changing their lives, and those who make the pros can attain generational wealth and a platform for speaking out on social issues, seventy percent of the players in the NFL and nearly eighty percent of the players in the NBA are black, but by celebrating those achievements Jackson says we lose sight of the big picture I would actually rather celebrate a nation where thirteen or fourteen percent of the NBA thirteen fourteen percent. Of the NFL is black. And that thirteen and fourteen percent of physicists and scientists and mathematicians and lawyers and geeks in Silicon, Valley. Are Black Bats the game. I WANNA see black people winning and ultimately the end of the day decades from now it won't be tomorrow. An America that is open to all means that will actually be playing sports less and doing much more of the engine that keeps America going. Only a game is produced by. Jonathan, Chang Martin Kessler and Gary Wallich our technical directors Marquees Neil our executive producer is me. I'm Karen. Given only game returns next week. Thanks for listening. Support for only a game comes from the listeners of WB, you are Boston where the program is produced and your NPR station from the Arcus Foundation dedicated to the idea that people can live in harmony with one another and the natural world learn more about Arcus and its partners at arcusfoundation dot org and heather stirred. HAGIA and Paul Hager supporting African Wildlife Foundation working to ensure the future of Africa's wildlife and wild lands learn more at Awf dot org.

Sports football basketball Derek Jackson Dr Amirah Rose Davis NPR United States soccer Baseball Brown John Solomon Penn State Princeton America Russell Dinkins Auto producer University of Oklahoma Jerry Brewer ESPN
LIVE From University of OklahomaCharlie's First Stop on TPUSA GenFree Tour

The Charlie Kirk Show

1:32:46 hr | Last month

LIVE From University of OklahomaCharlie's First Stop on TPUSA GenFree Tour

"Hey everybody we are currently on the road. I can honestly say. I don't know where i am. We're having a great time and we had a great events in oklahoma and we wanted to share it with you. People said it was one of the best speeches i have given recently. We also have some unscripted live questions that happened from the audience. If you guys want to support our blitz across america to give you two episode today one on saturday one on sunday. Please consider supporting us at charlie kirk dot com slash support e. Mail us your questions free charlie. Kirk dot com. Hope to see all of you in missouri then kentucky nashville vegas san jose teepee usa dot com slash gen. Free is the place if you want to attend and also get involved with turning point. Usa atp usa dot com. We are working hard. We're up late making sure you guys have this episode. Please share it with your friends. We talk about what's happening in the news. The atrocity of a shooting that's happening in boulder. We talk about the future of the party. We talk about why we believe what we believe and so much more. I hope you enjoy buckle up here. We go charlie. What you've done is incredible hitter. Maybe charlie kirk on the college campus. We are lucky to have charlie. Charlie irks running the white house. I wanna thank joe. He's an incredible guy his spirit his love of this country's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organisations ever created turning point. Usaa will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries destroyed lives and we are going to fight for freedom campuses across the country. That's why we are here by now. You've all heard me talk about how my pillow is incredible. You're asking how do i support mike. Lindell will everything. Mike lindell makes his made in america. And a lot of you think that mike lindell is very courageous. And so if you want to get behind mike lindell and the work he is doing and say you know what mike i have your back or go to mypillow dot com and use the promo code kirk. Whatever you check out on my pillow dot com use the promo code kirk all my pillow products come with a ten year warranty and a sixty day money back guarantee you can get a queen size premium mypillow for twenty nine ninety eight regularly seventy dollars. That's forty dollars in savings. Go to mypillow dot com promo code kirk. If you want to support. Mike lindell and get something made in america. That's awesome mypillow dot com promo code kirk support. Charlie kirk mike lindell mypillow dot com promo code kirk. It's great to be with you. Guys have a lot of fun tonight. And i want to thank our amazing turning point. Usa chapter leaders and everyone. That's worked so hard on this event. I wanna thank our hosts this this hilton garden inn. It's kind of hard to find a venue every once in a while nowadays. So when i give it up for our wonderful hosts that allowed us to have this event so thank you that having person events very hard right now. There's a lot happening in our country. And i want to get through a lot of things tonight. Some things that are happening. that are impacting. All of your lives especially at at your colleges your high schools. Maybe if your home school you might be able to avoid some of this stuff. But it's definitely in our in our in our media and almost everywhere in our pop culture a couple of days ago there was an atrocity in colorado and our heart goes out to all those victims. And we're very slow to rush to judgment as we should be in those instances and not everyone was so immediately gun grabbers the people that want to take away our second amendment rights and our constitutional rights they were quick to try and label this atrocity of what happened in boulder colorado as something that was just not untrue but it was opposite of the truth and so you guys know who harasses. Do you know who this is. The niece of camera harassed not a very popular person. So she she tweeted. This is very important this critical race theory and all this nonsense leads you. The atlanta shooting was not even a week ago. Violent white men are the greatest terrorist threat to our country. This is what she said. The niece of camera harris taking after another person dr oni blackstock people will continue to die verified on twitter just so that white men can own guns and reinforce the power they already have now. If you now know twelve hours later we know that was not the case. The person that did this awful shooting not that it should matter that much either way but all of a sudden they want overly racial. Is everything hold on. This person was in islamic fundamentalist. This person hey. Donald trump. It's not a white person that walked into a grocery store and started shooting indiscriminately and they activists media is not covering any of this. I want you to imagine this though. Oh you imagine if anyone. Donald trump junior tweeted this out. The atlanta shooting was not even a week ago. A violent fill in any other caller except white men. Could you imagine. So why is this all of a sudden acceptable because the last year my goodness has our country changed right. I mean this is our first campus events and over a year. i guess it's sort of a campus event and my goodness has so much changed. Not only we through. What i consider to be the worst mistake in american history the unconstitutional immoral lockdowns. And we should never locked down our country again. Ever not only did we go through a series of lockdowns that crush small businesses. I'm going to tell you why we did the lockdowns because a very important point that i think everyone misses and it's not because of science. They've never actually followed the science. They follow the scientists that they like. That are wrong about everything like dr anthony. Fauci should be fired immediately and held accountable for the damage that he's gone through a country lockdowns last. May there was a death of george. Floyd and i did a whole video on this on courage. You check it out. It's probably one of the most misrepresented news items in the media in the last nine months. Every death is a tragedy. That's a very complicated death. It's not as simple as the media. Makes it believe a very well. George floyd overdosing. While that was happening he said. I can't breathe seven times where the police even late hands on him. And derek chauvin was following the minneapolis police code by putting his knee on the back of his neck. As it says in the guide book shouldn't be the code two different argument. And i think there's probably arguments to be made that manslaughter but first degree murder based solely on racial discrimination. And then we're gonna blow up our whole country and change the way. Educate our children vats is. That's what we did. The last ten months twelve months in our country where because of that one incident which all of you have seen and has been on repeat which again is more complicated than anyone in the activists media ever lead you to believe. Let us to allow a sinister and bigoted philosophy and ideology to now be the prevailing philosophy and almost every single one of your schools called critical race theory. And i'm sure if you go to university oakland university of oklahoma people here. It's awesome now. I can't see anything is any oral. Roberts people here i have to say. Congratulations awesome. no it really is. And it's a really great thing and beating. Ohio state beating florida. It's awesome and all of oklahoma. Should be very happy. So congratulations and so. I don't know if it's the case oral roberts but definitely oh you i can tell you. Critical race. Theory is probably all throughout your curriculum. Throughout what your teachers am my right is. I'm just guessing. What is this and how is it. That meena harris the niece of the vice president united states is able to wrongly label. This as saying this is an epidemic of white people killing as terrorists and the main reason is that we have decided and we being not exactly everyone in this room but our leaders and we conservatives are to blame for this that all of a sudden we are going to make the color of people skin the most important thing in our country. I don't wanna live in that country. That is not a good thing. I grew up in an america like nine years ago where i was told that if you care about people's skin color you're a bigot. And that's exactly right. I care about your character. I care about your soul. I care about your actions. Your skin color is completely and totally irrelevant to me. In fact if you care about people's skin color maybe your the racist so this is this is an ideology that is not just now in the fringe of some north african lesbian poetry class at the university of oklahoma right. This is everywhere. This is in our corporations our military. It's in our schools. Obviously and what is it exactly. Because i know there's a lot of parents in this room and watching online and you're probably a little shell shocked you say. Where is this coming from. We're we're teaching our children to care about their immutable characteristics. Which we know where that leads. And it's not just civilizational ending stuff. It is it is humanity ending. And so where is this coming from. It comes from a very specific type of philosophy rooted in critical theory from a group of thinkers. Jacques derrida michelle suco. Herbert merck who basically believed a couple of things. There's no such thing as absolute truth. There's no proper reading of attacks you've probably heard this before and that everything in life whether you realize it or not. It's a power struggle. They took the marxist power dynamic and they applied it to american society and they said the real power dynamic of. What's happening in america whether you realize it or not is white. People are oppressing people of color specifically black people all the time. So what do the critical race theorists actually believe. They believe that there's no such thing as individuals that you are not actually an individual you are member solely of your group now. Groups do exist but groups are not nearly as important as first and foremost is recognizing that you as an individual. Have your own agency your own action. Your own capacity to speak and you must be held accountable for your own actions not the actions of a group as basically one of the most fundamental ideas of western civilization. Where we get this idea from got it from the christian ethic. We take this for granted but before the teachings of the bible were mixed with the findings of the enlightenment everyone was almost always judge based on who their parents were based on where they came from based on what territories they controlled and so blood used to matter a lot more and so it was like your ancestry. Were always very important. Western civilization changed that and then change it perfectly or immediately but over time. Okay you are going to have to make something out of your own life and you're going to have to be held accountable for your own action and your own decisions. And so what. We have seen over the last couple of decades. Is this idea of critical race. Theory says no. You're not actually an individual. You're not that you are nothing more than a part of your group so you. If you're a white person in this room you are simply oppressor whether you realize it or not. Doesn't matter if you grew up as an orphan you're still a white person. Sit down and shut up. You're an oppressor. they take. They take in two zero account. Any sort of circumstantial evidence whatsoever and this is widespread as i mentioned all throughout our society and culture. The second thing they believe they do not believe in dialogue. You notice that free speech is something that is dying quickly in our country. Now why is that. They believe that. Dialogue which comes from the greek word through logos. Truth or reason or talking through talking. We're able to find truth rights and we're able to talk about things. Were less likely to get to actually physical conflict. That's a good thing. Talking is a press release valve for any society and it should be a free speech absolutist. I believe awful idea to say that you should be able to say them especially on digital social media. Get that in a second and that some guy in his pajamas and menlo park. California should not have the power to shut you up on facebook and google just because he disagrees with you. And i'm gonna. I'm gonna make i'm gonna make the cost. The conservative argument for why big tech must be reined in and i could just imagine. Our youtube numbers are gonna plummet. Because that's exactly what ends up happening because they're in control of the dialogue in our country and we never should have given it to them and so the critical race theorists. And i call this. The woke industrial complex so they call themselves woke because they've ever woken with how much racism there is. No you actually have awoken to how foolish you actually are. There's no wisdom in critical race theory no appreciation for what came before you know understanding of our history no appreciation for what it means to live a good complete and full life. It's the exact opposite and so the other thing that the critical race theorists teach. And you're probably seeing this in your education system in one way or the other is that you should be given a bigger platform to speak based solely on what you look like. Doesn't matter if you have something true to say they instead say white people sit down and shut up. Allow somebody else to talk now. It doesn't matter if the other person is saying absolute gibberish or nonsense. Instead it is the it's it's it's worse than reverse. Racism is racism going after other people's skin color saying that you should not talk based on something. You could not control now. Let me be very clear. I always have to make this claim because the activist media needs snow. Is that if you are a racist. You've got a lot of work to do. You should repent apologize. And i hope you find jesus christ in your life. I really do now. If you're a white person and you're not a racist you have nothing to apologize for. That's a very simple thing to say. And the media. They lose their mind. When i say something like that but just your existence and your actions unless they are racially motivated you are not inherently doing something racist just because you are a certain way. A belief in that is something that is so sinister and so dangerous. Okay so finally. I wanna i wanna break this apart. Which is how far is this. And how do we fight back against this and so if you've noticed in the last year there's this whole idea of cancel culture right. I'm sure a lot of you have experienced this one way or the other and basically. It's this nonstop competition of people. Saying i'm a better person than you are right. And it is so unbelievably dangerous for any country or civilization to participate in something like this and so this is how it works. It's basically for ten years ago. You tweeted something that might be a little bit. I dunno not politically correct. And therefore you should lose your job and your entire career should be abolished. You've seen this happen. i mean don't we all feel so much for that. Dr seuss and aunt jemima and gone with the wind or now no longer in our society right. It's complete and total nonsense. Of course we love cardi b. to go do whatever that is but dr seuss has gone in the same week. We have to hear that. Dr seuss must be censored from everything. But it's good for seven year olds to go watch cardi b. that disgusting routine on network television the grammy's and which of course is so incredibly inherently contradictory and so this is all rooted in basically a power struggle and they want they being the left. The taliban left in what they're trying to seek to do. They are trying to abolish any sort of speech. Discussion nuance or growth. There are things. I'm sure every single person in this room did ten years ago. You look back and say. I'm not the same person i was. That's a good thing. Becoming more mature. Developing better characters should be appreciated and applauded. You see never do they say okay. You might tweeted something ten years ago. Do you still believe that. Instead they say oh. You must always be that person who you were. Ten years ago. I'm going to destroy your life. That is not a sign of a mature or why society and just a word of the wise never went out there if you encounter cancel culture in your own life and i can't stand that term but you guys all know what it means. Please do me a favor. Rally around other people that might come under this. We have to start pushing back against this nonsense and this garbage stand by other people that are it is it is so destructive to our country it really is and so i wanna get into this other thing. And there's there's so much. I wanna i wanna cover which is kind of this false choice that we as conservatives are sometimes given. I want to be very clear. I can't stand socialism organization dedicated to debating against socialism and deconstructing socialism. But there's a third way our country can go either gonna pro-american direction which i pray. We'll go we'll talk about what that looks like and what it means which is stronger families having more children increasing church attendance having small businesses flourish again restricting immigration. All these things that are very very important to our country or we can go way. That's totally socialistic. But there's a third way and we as conservatives must be outspoken against the socialist threat and also the corporatists threat and this is where this critical race theory woke industrial complex. It all comes together. I will make the argument that certain private corporations are more powerful than our government. And that's not a good thing so we as conservatives for years have been trained never to challenge private companies amazon so what their private company they have all. This power will eventually get a competitor. I no longer want to tolerate that. Discussion i no longer believe that. Instead i will make the argument that the corporate oligarchy. That's running our country is actually doing more to restrict your god given freedoms and rights. Then our government. That's not to say the government can't vote and isn't but let me give you a good example. If google decided to pull down this livestream right now. What would recourse be. I could sue them and it would get tossed out immediately now. If the federal government came in and pulled the cord on our livestream. I could sue them. And i would probably win. Because the government's not allowed to do that you'd have representation. You would be able to bring them through court. You have the right to see your own government. These private companies have more power than our own consent to the govern- compact and i use the word government. But really the deeper word is this partnership that we have over supposed to have with the constitution. Now why what is the constitution. And why does it exist so some people say the constitution is there to limit government. That's half true. It's not the total truth. The constitution first and foremost there to protect naturally granted freedoms and liberties given to us by god. The founding fathers understood this and we're actually midst of a theological debate narcan true other people realize it or not and it's very simple. It's admitting that there is a god and you are not in. It's really not that hard and most people on the left. Refuse to acknowledge that right. There is no god and might be and so the constitution recognizes this and the founding fathers. Were so brilliant and anyone who is being taught anything but that in your schools. You're you're getting such a disservice. I'm happy to go through. All of the biggest lies three fifths compromise. founding fathers slaves. Happy to go toe to toe with anyone on that stuff. Because there's so much there's so much history that you're not being taught that i don't wanna spend too much time to unless you know there's there's someone that is more interested in that in the question answer time. The point is that the founding fathers believed that human beings in their state of nature had a moral obligation to be free freedom consciousness freedom to own property freedom to defend themselves freedom pursue pursue your own destiny and procedure unhappiness freedom to worship your creator and so the biggest form of threat against that freedom that they could possibly think of was a very strong government despot tyrant rulers people joseph stalin people like pol pot people like mao say tong and generally the american constitution has donate good job of preventing that from coming to our country so far so far. It's been a pretty good job. Why because the american constitution spreads power over space and time space states created the federal government federal government and create the states for example. Oklahoma should not be told what to do by new york or california. You have your own sovereignty. You have your own elections in your own ability to determine what you wanna do. Something that makes the american system over space and over time most countries you could take over the entire government in one election cycle in this country. It takes minimum six years to win state local and federal elections because it takes six years to control the senate does. It's only up one third at a time to get really radical. Things passed so the founding fathers put systems in place to slow down the potential threat of tyranny and god. Bless them for that. However i'm making the argument and conservatives. And i know that i see a lot of heads nodding that right now. The primary form of potential tyranny is of course potentially the federal government and the president. But i think even more. So it's those private companies in menlo park and this is a hard thing for conservatives. Talk about it. We're trying to say private business. Private business private business. Let me ask you a question if you ride the highway down to dallas three hours from here and you get pulled over and you say sir you're wearing a make-america-great-again hat you are not allowed to drive on. This highway says who we're a private highway and that's the way it's gonna work. No one would stand for that. Say no this is the only way i can get to dallas now. There are private highways all across the country. A better example would be from gary indiana to chicago. It's a privately owned highway chicago sky. What by federal law. You are not allowed to discriminate based on who drives that highway. The people closest to angels and the people of the scum of the earth. They are allowed to drive on that highway stroke. It's called access to free and open transportation. You cannot all the sudden have a gate that says people that voted for donald. Trump are not allowed to ride on us. Highway not allowed the law. The same should be said for social media because now those are the highways of information in our country. So when you have when you have company that has ninety two percent of search results ninety two percent and they're supposed to all of a sudden be treated like your local coffee shop. That's that's just a dumb argument. I hate to say that. And that is a corporatist argument. That is an argument made four in by trillion dollar companies. That want to run your life. So why did the lockdowns happen. I mentioned this earlier. Suck because the science originally i get two weeks i get a month six weeks or trying to figure it out but once we realized that who is most at risk once we realized that this virus most people especially in our age demographic. We're going to survive. Is that you at a higher likelihood of dying in an automobile accident than from this virus and by the way it's a very legitimate virus for all people but especially for people over a certain age with underlying health conditions and those people should take the virus very seriously however the cost of locking down the country was far greater than what the alternative would have been in florida shows that that florida has opened. Schools open businesses the second oldest population in the country and they're doing unbelievably well all across the board now. So why do the lockdowns continue. We'll think to yourself who got richer during the lockdowns bingo. You order a lot of packages from amazon. You know you didn't good for you because you're an american patriot. That's why no think about it. How many of you know at least two small businesses that will never reopen because the lockdowns most every hand goes up. Amazon is jeff. Bezos is worth one hundred and fifty five billion dollars. The louis vuitton guys one hundred thirty six billion dollars. It's not a good thing for the country when that happens when forty percent small businesses disappear over the course of one year and then what the federal government does try to save it is. They sent everyone fourteen hundred house to subsidize in activity instead. What they do is they say. You know what amazon instead of a stimulus bill. We're going to pass a monopolistic bill and we're going to break into fifteen different companies and send back to states like oklahoma and kansas and missouri. And get some competition going. Instead of jeff bezos ruling like king. George is to rule us over. And i do not make that comparison lightly when you're able to control commerce search engine results you're controlling hearts minds decisions and businesses and we as conservatives must be very clear what we stand for. I love markets because why because they serve human beings. We must have a pro human agenda. Everything we do that includes by the way protecting those that can't protect themselves in the womb. This this pro human agenda is now what is going to be the future. I believe of the conservative movement. Which is we care about family formation. We care about making our young people live full complete live with developing character hopefully in the pursuit of absolute truth. We are not going to bow down to some corporate oligarchy. We want small business and entrepreneurship the floor in our country. We want people that are eighteen. Nineteen twenty twenty one not to go eighty ninety thousand dollars into debt to go search after a job that they were promised that will disappear overnight so they have to go work in minimum wage working their only hope is debt forgiveness and i want to say something about this because i think conservatives get the debt forgiveness argument wrong in one way i do not support debt forgiveness but i have sympathy for people that advocate for it. And here's why because most people that go far into debt. You were lied to you. Were lied to by the cartel. You were lied to by politicians. That said you must go to college to succeed. And then you're left with all this debt burden after four years and you say i am not getting a job or a career that can correlate with the amount of money i borrowed i would be angry too and so we as conservatives must understand that a large portion of the younger population younger generation they're gravitating bernie sanders and all these other politicians are the only ones that will validate some legitimate concerns. They have let me be clear. I can't stand the victim thing. I'm not saying that you should just go around and have the oppression olympics and say. Give me something free all the time. I think that's nonsense at the same time. I will say that there has been a sequence of public policy decisions that have negatively impacted our generation and there has to be some way to address that hopefully from pro conservative pro american pro human agenda. That's the question that is going to be in front of the conservative movement in the next couple of years because the conservative. And you're seeing this happened right now and in washington. Dc we're seeing unit party. Run our country right. It seems as if that there's one party rule that want us to be continually in these foreign wars overseas. That wants to continue to these. Bad trade deals which by the way have destroyed tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs in this state alone or they ship jobs overseas to wuhan china and they bring back piles of plastic. And they say. Aren't you a lot richer. You say no. My cousin is addicted to opioids. My best friend committed suicide and the high school can't fund itself. The local manufacturing plant has been turned into a soccer field. How exactly my richer they say. Oh well the guy down the street he's able to have three maserati and all of a sudden they're they're perplexed when that guy puts a maga- hat on for someone that promises better days for tomorrow. Listen to the concerns your voters. You might learn something. Trade wars immigration. Those are the three things that former president trump a friend of mine talked about and he hit a horde because those are the three things that the party says. we're not supposed to talk about. We're not supposed to talk about how we bring in so many people into our country every single year both legal and illegal which is why i called for an immigration moratorium two weeks before president trump did last year. Because i believe that every single one of you deserve an american job. I before something that comes into our country and prices you out of the job market you should be given preference you borrow the money you studied to our system. Your parents pay the taxes. We have a compact. We have a promise. We have an obligation to our citizens and our graduates to employ you before in another country might compassion. My heart goes out for those people. That is not what a nation as a nation takes care of their fellow. Countrymen i then we can worry about being extended compassionate the with the ever increasing numbers of makes like fiat kia and models. Pacifica x t five. It's impossible to stop all the parts. You need in a traditional chain store fronts. Why doerr all the questioning. That can be intimidating around your car and wait. While the countermand orders the parts on his computer choosing the only brand his warehouse happens to carry you have computers with access to rock auto dot com at home in in your pocket one reason to repair and maintain. 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Rock auto dot com. My heart goes out to those of you. That are forty thousand dollars into debt. Studied computer engineering. And you're trying to find a high tech job and then all of a sudden visa comes in and cuts you from it because they're willing to work for less than what you have to pay off my debt. You see immigration is one of the most important issues that it seems. Republicans and democrats can get along with. And i'm not gonna make a political statement on this and we're a nonprofit so i'm just gonna talk facts on this. There's a reason why all of a sudden republicans and democrats want to push an amnesty bill right now. Why we know why. Democrats want more immigrants into america. Why votes that simple pure power. Now there's two pe- words. Republicans want one democrats want power. They just want power. It's that simple now. Why would republicans want this. Because they betray the promise to their voters. Prophets i think. The profit motive is a healthy thing for entrepreneurs. But i think when you put your profit motive above your patriotic duty to your country. I got a lot of problems with that especially the promises that were made to you. I want you to think about this. Your parents paid property tax and income tax to your state local and federal government for years paying into a system and then all of a sudden when you're twenty three years old and maybe thirty thousand dollars into debt. You go and try to find a job and all of a sudden you get priced out from somebody halfway across the world and god bless them. I wish the best for them. But that's a violation of the american promise. Isn't it because the american promises if you pay your taxes and do what's right. Eventually the promise will be returned to your children. And that's who gets priced out of this but that's where republicans see an opportunity brought to you by the chamber of commerce and the chamber of commerce wants to keep wages low and more people coming into america and is a byproduct of this. Why are we spending all this money in washington. Dc if you guys want to get really machiavelli and with me. I can build this out for you. You don't machiavelli. Nicola machiavelli wrote the prince highly recommend it really brutal awesome. Politics describes a lot a lot of the things that you guys say. I don't recommend employing it in your daily life but it actually explains a lot a lot of things you'll say actually come from that ends just means would rather be hated rather than loved and it was written in a time when bunch of italian families we're fighting for power and he was basically an observer and realized human behavior when it comes to the super powers willing to put to put aside their publicly declared ethics and the pursuit of power. Boy was machiavelli. Right why are we spending all this money. Why did we spend one point nine trillion dollars as we spent one trillion dollars in december. Graft we spent four trillion dollars in the federal budget after two trillion dollars. Now joe biden wants spend another three trillion dollars. Whoa that happened quick. Why now the short answer is charlie addict. people the government programs. That's half the answer. The other side would say or the people say charles went to invest our energy and our infants nonsense. We know that's not true. You look at where this money is actually going. You are subsidizing inactivity. And what else having. I don't know if this is the case in oklahoma or not because you guys are good hardworking people. But i could tell you in other states. It's impossible to find an now. Why why would anyone want to work drive their car. If you get fourteen hundred dollars plus unemployment. So why would i wanna do that. I could extrapolate that example to other parts of the american economy small businesses restaurants. A lot of people are having trouble finding workers right now because you subsidize in activity. Here's why when you inflate your currency. They're only a couple ways to manage that. Because that's what we're doing we are. We are going full speed ahead into a long-term inflation cycle. It's just the way it is. And if you own land and you have revenue producing assets that you can touch. You're going to be okay and inflation. He was going to get crushed by inflation. Working people people that do not have a lot of hard assets. People that go paycheck to paycheck. You're gonna get crushed and their solution will be to create more money and to subsidize that but there's a deeper reason why they want to inflate our currency. Because the other way you could you could raise rates. They don't wanna do that. They are not going to raise interest rates. They're just they're addicted to cheat money. You could bring more people into america. See if you expand the supply of human beings that are trading anything by definition than that pre existing thing that you're the aforementioned thing i should say that your trading is then spread amongst more people so if you've three hundred thirty five million people that are trading dollars and then you three hundred. Seventy million people that are trading dollars will therefore the inflated currency. It's a little less inflated. They're making an argument to bring thirty million people into american the next five years. They're creating that set of circumstances that's what they're doing. They are creating a crisis that only open borders can fix and we know exactly where that heads so. Let's talk about. Because i don't think that we talk about this correctly enough and we come across as being as being portrayed as hateful and heartless and soulless let me be very clear. I want closed borders. Because i care about the well. Being of the people in the southern border there are children that are being rented fifteen thousand children a month according to tom hohmann former director of immigration customs enforcement. Fifteen thousand children that are being rented like. They're a blockbuster video tape. He doesn't even know what that is like a vhs like they're being rented like a car the sickest thing you can imagine to be unaccompanied minors to gain entry into our country. The women that are sex trafficked across our southern border the drugs that flow into america. The guns the firearms. And we're supposed to believe that a porous border is something that is in the best interest of those people that is a lie. You always want to crush the cartel you want to crush the flow of drugs police. Our border like legal police. The border of afghanistan or korea if we took our border one one hundred as seriously as we take the north korean border. Almost all those problems would disappear overnight. Bought the powers that be. Don't want that. Because they want low wages they want more votes and there quietly in agreement for that. But also i wanna make this other point which is blm inc. Which is how. I call the black lives matter movement. 'cause they're just they're corporation more than anything else. They say they care about the livelihood of black americans in our country. Then why on earth would they want to bring in another twenty to thirty million people to undercut the wages of black americans in the inner city of our country will because they actually don't want flourishing wages and don't want those communities to get richer because as soon as they get richer they may no longer be liberals everything they want is the pursuit of power the establishment on the other side in the pursuit of chamber of commerce appeasement sometimes power sometimes prophets saying tonight. What i'm seeing. That's optimistic from my friends. Jd vance and other people. Is that a new conservative movement. Thanks to our former president. Trump is coming and it's gaining. Traction like you wouldn't believe which is that. It's really excited. And it's one that puts our nation. I that does not look at america's temporary colony to just maximize corporate profits. But this is our home. This is where our families are. We care about this place. We care about the well being of it. We want a place where families can flourish. Small businesses can thrive and that a small subset of fifty companies does not dictate every decision. That we make. And here's the last argument will make about that. Corporate dominance which is if you're not even bought on the economic arguments. I just made you understand that they hate your value system. If you're a conservative right. They were supposed to be on team right. And they're the ones that are bringing in robyn diangelo to go teach the employees of coca-cola that all white people are racist so for the corporations out there. I didn't convince you on all of that. You broke your compact with conservatives. The moment you invited the woke industrial complex. Go run your corporations. I want nothing to do with those corporations that go out of their way to teach their employees to hate themselves and hate america. And so what's the response to that. And here's the exciting. Is you go back to the constitution right. The constitution is a pro human document. The constitution wants to preserve our humanity through and through your right to speech. You're right to property you're right to associate with the your loved ones and also be able to worship your creator however you see fit but also the constitution. So remarkable is that it gives you the sovereignty we have the power and this is why these corporations and this is why the wealthiest people in our country are now. Starting what. I call a top down revolution. Does it feel like all of a sudden. The most powerful people in the country are pressing down on the people. It's the first revolution that i've seen in a long time. We're the ones in. Charge are declaring war on the people. Have nothing perplexing. Isn't it usually the russian revolution. Chinese revolution cuban revolution. It's the people that are pushing back against instead. It's the people that have one hundred and forty billion dollars in the bank out saying you know what. The problem is christians in oklahoma. That's who we're going to go crush. And i'm telling you right now that the sooner we truly get woke and we wake up on the stuff. They're nervous because they know that their plunder is coming to an end. They're nervous because they know that the issues. I just articulated which is putting our country i carrying about your fellow countrymen actually talking about flourishing families. These are eighty percent winning issues. These are not just like fifty fifty wedge issues. They want us distracted talking about our skin color while the actual issues that will win us. Elections are right in front of us. They want us distracted on being like. I'm so sorry. That i may or may not be the worst person in the history of the planet. Let me take a knee and give you all my entire bank account. Don't do that. Do not submit to these people. They want you distracted from their theft. Because the moment that we stop talking about these stupid silly issues which there's no logic no there is no history historical backing for any even their time will be up. And so people say charlie what what is what does success look like for you couple of things number one. I want our kids to love america again. I want our kids to get fired up about our country. We have to teach our values or else those values will not exist. We have to get into the curriculum. We have to train teachers. And we have to be unafraid to america's the greatest country ever to exist in the history of the world. We are the least racist country ever to exist in the history world where the most generous country most benevolent country most creative country for a reason and that reason is different than anyone that might tell you. it's not because we stole the land and that we're colonialists and any of that stuff. The reason is from our founding. There was always a commitment to improving ourselves improving our nation protecting our home and pursuing the good. That is a moral country. I will defend it against any other country in the history of the planet. Have we made mistakes. Of course we've made mistakes. We're human beings but look at the raw material we're dealing with. Human beings are unbelievably broken by nature. Note believe me. Most countries are totally screwed up. If you think people are naturally good you could only believe that because in america people are basically good. That's the only way you could possibly to believe that. And of course. We've made mistakes but america's not a mistake america's a gift we've been given the short gift and currently we have a decision to me and i'll get. The gift will be protected and preserved and advanced based on our action. Our commitment. So i understand. There's a lot of depression going around i understand. There's a lot get over all that stuff right now. So i'm telling you right now. The reason they're the ruling class and the elites are preemptively declaring war on you in your classroom a social media amongst your friends is. They are nervous. They're nervous that. All the seventy five million people become ninety five million people. They're nervous that. Protecting one's countries actually very popular. And so this can be our greatest moment and it should be but their entire campaign is one of silencing suppression and intimidation and the moment that we don't put up with it anymore which is why these events matters so much that we don't put up with this nonsense anymore. Victory is inevitable. I truly believe that. Okay let's get some questions guys. Thanks for let me rip through all that thank goodness regular. Hello so my question is about so crisis communication class at my college and we were asked to come up with solutions for like the population control. And whether you want to feed more people or whatever well one of my peers said that the solution should be that the us should pay about three million dollars a year for contraceptives. for the world's contraceptives. My question is how do we get the average student to realize that money doesn't just come from the government. It's not magic. It's so i'll do you one better so the premise of your classes that we have too many people and we don't have. I reject the premise. We need more. We need more children. not less. Children are countries on the verge of a population collapse. And so here's one piece of advice. I'll give you for everyone in the room on as soon as you're talking about how we're going to pay for something. We've already lost the debate. I should say why should we pay for that. Nonsense at all. By the way we should fund contraceptive garbage. But back. what you're saying. So this is this is basically are being taught earth worship. Okay and that's that's what's being taught in most schools. Which is somehow we must put the earth the well being of human beings remember pro human agenda right now. We shouldn't abuse. The earth pollute the rivers and lakes. But always we should have a belief in human supremacist thing to say. But that's basically where this conversation goes right now. I believe human beings are image bearers. You're made of the image of god. Every life is a gift should be preserved and protected. we have a million abortions year every single year. And i believe you can't get that issue. Right they look at all the other issues. You screw up beyond that but also this is something that happens in the academy far too often which is too many people. We need to get rid of population. I'm gonna make a prediction. That's the opposite in thirty years. We're gonna see declining population like you've never seen before. We're already seeing it here in america so in the last year. You've a lot of people at home. People spending time lockdown. You'd say oh birth rates. Go up to dramatic decrease like we've never seen before. Why half economic right expensive kits people say have one of each like. They're picking out of toyota. Something the other is that if you don't believe that children are necessary to be fruitful and multiply to replicate your values and replicate yourself. Why have children. So if you don't teach people that having children is necessary and those of us that believe in the bible we have an answer for that. It's like the second chapter of the bible be fruitful and multiply. Might be the third anyway. The point is that it's right there the. Why have children if you if you actually believe that. Climate change is next threat which is complete gibberish nonsense and balderdash. And all of you guys should be afraid to push back against all that garbage is designed for one thing power and control and let me just tell you something that as a general rule if your biggest worry in life is existential. You live a great life. If your biggest worry is the sti- falling and not sanitation nutrition getting murdered on the way home or being beaten. You live a very nice life. You do this. Climate change nonsense can only happen in a rich generally peaceful society. This doesn't think that the people in the slums of india who have to worry the three hundred million that don't have access every single day. Two functioning toilets. You think they're worried about the sky falling. Or maybe they want a coal pile. Coal fire power plant to be able to have a hospital or school. So i guess the final point. I'll make on this. Which is so important is reject the premise. The premise of that whole thing is that more people population increasing much reduced people. I don't agree with that at all whatsoever. I think that we should have we have a commandment to be fruitful and multiply. I do not believe even close that human population is what is destroying the entire earth. And even beyond that. I think that if people if that's our biggest concern just it's nice to lightly remind them that you live a great life. Maybe you should worry about improving yourself not destroying the world around you. Thank you charlie. So i'm an officer in the medium station about two hours. Thank you for your service. Show one thing. The army's really good at is preparing for the last war. We're not really gonna preparing for the next war. We don't know what we're gonna face. We pretty much by the time finishes if it finishes these days were good at that so i have two years left. I've been in the army for ten years. But i'm going to be transitioning out soon. Go to law school. I think there's a greater threat at home. And there is a broad so my question to you to kind of take that from the military to the conservative movement and you talked about corporatism corporatism already is what do you think we should prepare for in the future. Because i also think that the conservative movement is also really good at being retroactive. Instead of proactive. I liked the framing of your question. And i agree with you so things. We have to anticipate conservatives. We gotta start owning. Our own stuff are on servers are tech companies are on banking institutions. Got own our own stuff. And i hate to make it overly political but there's a real threat of trying to trying to use corporate power against political opponents. That's number one number two. I think there's a couple of long term goals and objectives. I have for the conservative movement. I think we have to double the homeschooling population in the next five years in our country and to make it easier to home school. And then finally. I think that we need to encourage young people to get married earlier and celebrate that. And that's a really big problem and so and then i have some other ones which should reduce college enrollment. But that's a that's a different not. We need more plumbers electricians and welders and police officers and veterans and entrepreneurs more people that work at their hands. So i like the framing. I also think we have to date that one of the biggest fights and we need to be on the right side of this art official intelligence and that we should be afraid to say that we should use the power of government to manage artificial intelligence artificial intelligence very scary. What's happening happening on. This is a bipartisan issue. But if we don't we're going to be working for these machines very soon they should always be serving us and that's something that's happening quick and we have a little bit of a window here while this technology still getting worked out before it hits the mass market but i wanna thank you for your service and that's a very smart question. So thank you charlie. So my dad couldn't make it tonight. He's actually working. But before i started. I wanted to let you know that. He's a huge fan. You actually sent them an autograph book once yes his name lg hamilton. I'll me there and your film so so. I'm a high school student here in edmond. And i wanted to ask your advice any advice that you would give to a high school student. That's about to graduate like me. I've been accepted to multiple universities. But i'm not really sure what my path is in life. Yeah wh what advice would you give great question. You gotta ask yourself first question. Which so important. Why do you want to go to college. It's really important question. Not where now. If you can to answer that question the next one can be wear and i'll tell you how to answer that question. The not every person needs to go to four year college. That if you're not ready to borrow the money to get right into it. It's okay to take a gap year. I took a gap year. And it's been nine and a half years of gap. We're very and very clear. My criticism mccollum is not a criticism of learning. My other charged for you. Tonight is to learn something new every single day. Read the great books. Take the hillsdale online courses. Listen to victor davis hanson. Pursue truth everywhere. Guys it's gonna make you a better activist. It's gonna make you happier and wiser person. It will clarify what's happening in the news. It'll make you less anxious. The more you learn the better off. You'll be so i want to say even if and what's so amazing in the digital age. There's not a lot of positives out of these computers that we walk around with one of the positives guys. You know what people would have given two hundred fifty years ago to have all that access information a moment's notice use it for good not just endless tiktok videos of whatever that is right and so i'll say this is well when there's other people that are probably wrestling with this question as well. Which if you take a gap year. Which i'm a big fan of it's kind of time and take breath. Go find what you think you want to be and go find someone who's good at that thing and find out if that's really what you want to be. What i find is that the first go at. It is usually not exactly what you think it is. Get that out of your system. You might wanna be an auto mechanic and you might be like. This is the worst thing ever get out of your system. Maybe you're gonna end up being a professor. 'cause we god knows we need more of those that actually love our country and so the point is that if there's a time to explore is when you have no liabilities the time to explore is when you have no kids. You're not married and you have no debt. So if you're if there's something you want to get into that's the time to do when you're eighteen or nineteen but i also want to say this for the high schoolers out there. Don't immediately roll into college if you feel you're just getting pressure from your friends your teachers your guidance counselors and yes your parents. I'm gonna have a little message to parents watching online and here. I'm going to say this lovingly. If you're not prepared to turn to your neighbors when you see them at the supermarket and say my son or daughter. Little johnny is not enrolled in college. And i'm okay with that then it's more about your ego than your kid's education and that's a very serious thing. We have to talk about it. And so i will say this. Many parents want what's best for their children and they've been told that college is absolutely the best decision but forty-one percent of people that go to college don't graduate forty one percent. National graduation rate is fifty nine percent. I know it's better here in oklahoma. But that's the national graduation rate. How many of you know someone who dropped out of college. The entire hands go up in the room you know. Those people had little confidence right little more uncertainty little. Bruce takes a while to get along. They never should've went in the first place. You know why because suburban parents don't want their kids to become plumbers because we've been taught the plumbers and electricians or the dump people you know it's true you know it's true that the archetype you have of a plumber. Someone who comes in as little smelly doesn't really have his act together works with his hands. You want your kid to go be a philosopher. Right go study south african migratory bird studies or whatever. There's some there's some good things to study in college. There are science technology engineering math. And it's what you do with it do it manually. But the point is that the pressure sometimes comes from. This idea of my kid will not work construction. Let me tell you what. We have a deficit in the muscular class in our country right now. We have a shortage electricity. Hvac plumbers computer engineers people can code far too many philosopher. Kings that are serving these at local starbucks is telling you that we just need one more. Trillion dollar stimulus bill and then the revolution will come into our country. There's nothing wrong with blue collar work. I don't care about where you went to school. I don't care about your piece of paper. You have matters your character which comes from the greek word tattoo imprint. It's who you are. you can't change it a care about your wisdom. Wisdom is the knowledge of things that never change things that are eternal practical knowledge and eternal knowledge. Practical knowledge fine. You go to harvard. You've got a lot of practical knowledge zero wisdom. Why no god. No wisdom is no got it. Harvard does not wisdom. Plumbers have more wisdom than the philosophers at harvard. Let me tell you that much so pursue something immediately that you want to explore more than anything else. That might be the right thing the wrong for me. I got lucky ended up being the thing. I love the turning point. Usa we have this amazing national movement. That's bigger than anything i could have dreamed of. I got lucky and guess this an expression that would work. Well governor hit oil. Is that what you say around here. we struck it and i know that's not going to be the case for everybody but i want to say this your work ethic your character your motivation. Your drive is what's the most important thing in the final final thing. Say this is care about your development as a human being care about whether you're making ethical choices whether you are acting responsibly whether you are becoming the true reflection of the person you want to be eventually and if you're not ask yourself the question why i wish college did the college unfortunately now is more about convincing you that there's no beauty and no truth in the world but let's get you mad about destroying the world around you so i hope. I hope that was a little bit of advice for you to consider. I wish you well thank you. God bless you. She is one of the most powerful voices faith family and for freedom. someone. I know very well. We had a lot of fun together for a couple years at turning point. Usa and she's doing awesome and she's a frequent guest of the show. We've an campus tour. It's candace owens. And i wanna tell you. Candace has joined the powerful lineup at the daily wire. Great company launching a new show. We're talk show meets late night. She'll continue to call out leftist lies and the corruption of media and big tech so join candice each week as she welcomes powerful voices talk about the most critical issues breakdown. What's actually happening in our country. And trust me. You're going to laugh a lot to candice unfiltered and quite honestly on cancelable. Even as she says all the things other on the right wing are afraid to say canvas. Dear friend she's a fighter. she loves our country. And i know all of you love supporting candace owens. Here's how you do it. Her full show is available to daily wire members. Only use code charlie and get twenty five percent off your daily wire membership now. So if you say. Hey i want to support the fighters will you could support this program. You could support. Candace owens by going to daily wire dot com and you can. There's a membership tab and then use the code charlie. It's that easy it's daily. Wire dot com support. Candace owens candice is a fighter. She loves her. I've seen her and her commitment personally. What she's done and again. She's moved the dial so much so go to daily wire dot com. Use the code. Charlie and get twenty five percent off your daily wire membership. Now the will goodwin. I am vice president. One of your chapters awesome. Thank you and my question is so this is great right. I mean we love this right guiding young minds the truth and the good and kind of how we should vote. I guess and that way but if the democrats are stealing our votes and what did we do. I agree so let me let me walk through election integrity first of all. Thank you for your leadership turning point. Usa so anyone. Listen to our podcast. Anyone oh possum my best friend. I think i think those of you that do you know that we spent a lot of time on election integrity more than most and we paid a price for it. Because you're not supposed to talk about that stuff. Let me first say that. This election was the most interfered with election in american history. Let me talk about what we know. Then what is probably happened. We need to find. Is that okay. Three different categories. Here's what we know. Four hundred million dollars came in from the tech giant's into an organization called the center for technology and civic life that changed the way we did elections in our country forever. And they subsidized mail in voting. We know this is subsidized mail. In voting. they put a whole machine together. A whole process that streamlined. It's called the center for technology. Civic life this is unprecedented. Four hundred million dollars overnight from the wealthiest people on the planet saying that. We want everyone to vote by mail. We know this is in the no category. Jimmy carter told us this. Every study has told us that mail in voting is the most susceptible potential fraud. Especially if you do not have an infrastructure in place to be able to facilitate it example number one georgia two thousand sixteen georgia had two hundred and forty eight thousand more or less mail in votes in two thousand and twenty. They had over one point two million. They weren't prepared for it huge increase. Here's what we also know that. There were agreements done in private and governor kemp. Did this with secretary. State rothlisberger relaxed the signature. Verification standards in georgia have more mail in votes more relaxing verification standards. Things change altogether. Let me tell us what we know. The social media companies directly intervened on behalf of joe biden. Remember the tony bobby. Alinsky hunter biden story under normal circumstances. That's an october surprise. Bigger than anything. We've ever seen before in american politics and yet that was buried. New york post is not even allowed to tweet about it. Social media companies deactivated people's accounts. Facebook cut kick people altogether and all the trending topics. The fact checkers conversation was put in a box and said you are not allowed to get outside the guidelines of criticizing the person running for office. Why did they do that. Because in two thousand sixteen one of the main reasons why donald trump one was because the tech companies did allow dialogue speech and for things to be spread and they said. We're never going to allow that to happen again. Let me tell you about the things that probably happened when you have this many votes when you have this volume happening and all the sudden you have these. Vote dumps the middle of the night. And you're kicking out poll-watchers you basically invite every single form of potential shenanigans interference imaginable. We gotta figure out more about this. This probably happened. We're still working this to the courts. Now let me get to the final thing. Okay which is the thing that we don't have enough to build out which is really really important to get to this. Which is if we're if we do not have a serious conversation. and joseph. stalin said this very famously. You could vote one way to count the votes. Actually matter of how the votes are tabulated in our country then people are going to lose faith in the entire system altogether. There's a hand recount happening in arizona right now. Two point one million votes are being hand recounts. That's a good thing and we should support that. Because here's what the more transparency the better. If there's nothing there show us stop hiding it. Be in the front of this conversation instead. It seems that they're running from it. They're dancing around it. They don't want to have an honest and true conversation around it. But i want to just say one thing. We're gonna fix this. We're gonna make sure it. Keep the pressure on. Keep the pressure on some of these other states to fix elections. Well you guys do elections in this state very good. I wanna commend your legislators for taking this seriously. Because i'm telling you right now you go to. These other states is at complete circus and a mess and another hundred. I wanna give a shout out to govern to santa's who's doing a pretty amazing and all this election results in by nine thirty eastern with zero zero allegations of massive fraud so those are the three different categories. But let me tell you this. We can't give up on. I'm glad you asked about it. I didn't mean the minute. I there's only so much time i have the cover certain topics but i also wanted to say this. Do not become a cynic people say never gonna vote against stop. it lucky. you're even allowed to show up the somewhere even if they shred your ballot and by the way this whole thing. I'm not gonna vote and waste like you have something better to do like yeah ten minutes out of my schedule and a stick it to the man like you're waiting starbucks line for twenty five minutes. I'm not going to go vote. Because i'm such a look how important i am. Cut it out get involved become an election. Judge involved your state. Legislators if you always a you and other states that might not be here. That drove be optimistic. Be solution-oriented guys. That's who we are don't bs. I get these emails. And god bless my know coming from a good place but it drives me a little bit mad. Because they're like. I'm never voting again. Nothing ever matters. That's what they want you to say they want you to give up. They want you to have zero face instead. Let's say okay. There's things on the margins. Let's try to fix it. Let's go about it. Factually let's go about assertively. And that's that's the way we should go about. Do not become a cynic and ask questions. And i'm telling you right now. I think there's gonna be some very big revelations about some of these things in the next couple of weeks and months. Thank you for your question. I really appreciate it thank you. I drove three. Hours is to see you. Texas wichita kansas awesome. Thank you for being here okay. So one of my questions is. I live in a pretty liberal. My town and most of the people are hispanic in on their black as well and the us racial victimization for the reason. They can't succeed in life of me. My dad archie like that so my question is what can i do to to that. And also what advice do you have for me as a hispanic conservative. so first of all. Thank you for being your three. And a half hours at seven hours roundtrip. So thank thank you for being here. It's hard to be a conservative in america. But it's especially hard to be a conservative if you're hispanic or black and i want to say that it's going to be tough. You're going to be called a race traitor. You're going to be called all these sorts of things right but you're on the right side of this. Let me tell. Why do you consider yourself more of a republican than democrat out. Imagine oh okay. Good i know you may. Sometimes i get all sorts of answers that trump had a very diverse coalition ideologically that much republican parties on the right side of this and we always have been. Republican party was formed as an anti slavery. Party in rippin. Wisconsin abolitionist slavery. The republican party. Which are i president. Abraham lincoln famously said if slavery is not wrong nothing is wrong. The republican party was on the right side of women's suffrage was on the right side of putting blacks in congress. The first time ever republican party has always been about the empowerment of the individual regardless of your skin color always the democrat party regardless of what your professors and the pundits will tell you have always been on the side of suppressing human potential and freedom. I'll prove it to you. They went from the plantation to intimidation to entitlement so used to be that democrats. They've always cared about skin color. That's the one through line right. They've always cared more about skin color than about character. And that's a good question to ask right. Say why does color matter so much. Why is it that. Why don't we care about people's character. They might say we'll because stem iq levels of oppression. If they said that's us something like that. Then you should ask a couple questions. If there is a stomach levels of oppression why is it that the richest immigrant group in america for a couple of years nigerian americans into america. We're so systemically racist. How is it the nigerian americans able to succeed so much in our country. Why is that asian. Americans are actually richer on average than white americans. Why is it that three million black people have emigrated legally into this country two million from africa. One million from the caribbean since nineteen seventy you know where the only multiracial country on the planet. That's really able to keep. Its act together. There's a reason for that. It's because martin luther king junior's dream that we're all taught as an ideal is now being being crushed is actually a very moral objective. Which is i care about your character care about who you want to be who you are and what you do so i would reject the virtualization that anyone tries to engage in that and the other thing is this is say. Push back against this. Is that the left. They actually if you re really intimately engaged. What clarence thomas would famously said say as the bigotry of low expectations great example of voter. Id so i support voter. Id laws voter. I d very simple obvious thing but they say that's so racist is black people can't get i d say i say you're racist for believing black people can't get id. I actually think that every human being is perfectly capable of getting identification and by the way as a side note. How do they think that people are going to prove their ancestry. When it comes to reparations like your paperwork together to prove yourself eight generations as ancestor of labor. You can't get a voter. id to go vote anyway. That's a side note completely off topic. Everything you stand for is a conservative empower. You is about lifting the individual everything not the group. You believe that we want school choice. Because we want to improve people's well-being we want freedom of speech. Because what the best ideas to win. We are through and through about the elevation of the individual. And so. I want to encourage you on that. And i also want to say. Don't give up because you're gonna be called all these nasty names and all of this but we're so happy you're in the conservative movement. And god bless you for coming to thank you christian. Jesus loving home schooling. Mom graduated my i. I am also an entrepreneur and sell on amazon. I am a part of hundreds of homeschool. Moms christians pastors missionaries and we all are entrepreneurs on amazon and it is open so many doors for me in my family. So the question for you. I love people. Don't understand this. I didn't know either but amazon is a huge. We're actually just renting warehouse space from them. So i can't even ship my product from my ups. The local post office store for the same price that they ship it. Mail it for me. So my question is i do not like of course. What's going on with amazon. Nba's that thirty percent of the sellers on amazon or people like me. So what do we do. I get questions a lot. And i know never know how to respond. Because i know it's been a really good thing yes so look. I bash amazon for reason. Of course there's been positives your testament to that. But i think the negatives are getting way out of control. We need a conservative alternative for us. What we need and we need it very soon. So that because here's what i'm telling. Here's the threat you say you love. Jesus love america. They could take you off amazon at any moment but we also sell made it an american product and there's a demand for that on amazon. But i know it's a threat because what we've noticed. Is that the christian. Products available on amazon are small so we try to hit that market whether or not the market is just not there. As in the same way it used to be. Take us off we. The there needs to be a competitor. And but what they've done is they've made it where that is the best business decision for you based on their size so you must have to conform in some ways maybe not yet to the woke industrial complex by being eventually and so. That's one of my arguments for breaking up amazon. Which is eventually they're ideology might very well impact your ability to sell. Move your goods and so look. There's there's there's there's positives and negatives tall things. Amazon is obviously in a positive for a lot of different things but the negative is that you're able to go online for sure. The forty percent of small businesses that have disappeared in this country. Large part because of the corporatization of our country of amazon haven't and so the success stories need to be maybe re platform than a different place. But i'm also of the belief that amazon is a very know why they're able to do the shipping the way amazon's they don't. They don't have like flying drones. Were they sort of do but the point is that they're not totally that way. They're actually not a shipping company. There a server company sixteen billion dollars revenue every single year come from servers like twitter and net flicks use their servers and they had a huge profit on that side and they need a loss on the other side to be able to be basically put up against their gains. so they're able to put packages for less. Which is the equivalent of dumping products. That's what's good for me as an entrepreneur. It's hard because i don't have to have the storefront. I is now is that they're going to get you addicted to that and they will raise the prices. Eventually that that's the fear right is and this is the dumping model that the chinese have done for us forever right. They'll bring in all this cheap steel or cheap solar panels. Eventually this is wonderful. And they'll turn out at twenty five percent increase right and then they'll say you have to conform lgbtq standards. It'll happen like that. So here you totally and i i admit it because they're able to subsidize it. I think we need an alternative. So you're not gonna be put in that box what we do. I mean i'm just telling me. And all i sat work with me. I don't even know specifics of your business model. I would start looking for other options soon. Hopefully they'll be able to do it. But also my advice find other people in your position and build a coalition your powers in your strengthen unity of maybe six hundred other people. That are doing the same thing as you. Then you then you have staying power dams on. They're like hey if you do this then you're gonna lose all of us that makes sense so then you're no longer alone but you kind of have a coalition together. Thank you do a couple more than we're going to hear from the governor so this is not a specifically political question but one thing in the last couple of years that is even got me interested in. Politics is the many different books i've read. That have kind of showed me the importance of politics as an expression of a nation's values values and principles. So i wanted to ask you what has been most impactful book that you've read in your life. Boy in the the bible would be number one obviously and book recently. That's been phenomenal by angle. While the it's called the book that built your world. I highly encourage just before. It's absolutely terrific. Federalist papers are phenomenal. I highly encourage everyone to read and reread those kind of the. It's the anonymous explanation of the greatest political document ever written which is the united states constitution. There's there's there's so many. I mean anything by edmond. Burke is terrific. His commentaries on the french revolution are phenomenal. But i would encourage this that it's less of a singular book and it's more on the cannon of a book of books it's more kind of series and so what do i mean by. That can be very familiar with the thoughts on the ideas that impacted our entire system of government. Here's an example. Thomas jefferson said and the declaration of independence the laws of nature. Nature's god and also life liberty in the pursuit of happiness. Did he come up with that. No he's basically a plagiarist took it from. John locke john locke learn from keep you diving dig dive deeper and deeper the point. Is that those. The understanding of these ideas came from are super important and a book. That i've reread that i really encourage. Everyone is aristotle's book on politics and aristotle's book on ethics is two thousand four hundred years old but guess what it's just as applicable today. Why human beings don't change. Human nature is constant matter. How much technology we get in all this stuff. We are just as broken greedy self interested and often we were twenty four hundred years ago. You read aristotle's politics you think you're reading the wall street journal that's happening into i kid you not in the first chapter aristotle's politics or saying idaho podcast on this guys might have heard this. He talks about closing schools and that despots tyrants want people to not be able to recognize each other as a way to try to dehumanize them to twenty four hundred years ago. Now why do i love that. It's because all of a sudden you realize that there are some things that never change and that's the other piece of advices. Go find wise and beautiful things that were written before you and know them very well. You'll be a happier person because of it. Thank you thank you so here. In oklahoma you know a lot of conservative circles. I know my circles my family and friends a lot of people. Talk about the secession of texas as like a last ditch back door plan. B. doesn't seem very feasible to me. But i wonder if you had any thoughts not it's not feasible. I mean look i. i'm. I'm an opponent in the current state for a couple of different reasons. The temporary unity. We have in. This country is so unique it is and something. We shouldn't take for granted. And the let me just tell you. Look at st. The balkan ization of territory does not end. Well a famous. Most famous recent example yugoslavia whereafter the death of tito of course the yugoslav balkan peninsula that's where we get the term balkanisation from split into four different countries. And we all know what happened after that. It was brutal it was awful. It's not good because then you get all sorts of different discussions. We'll happens to the military. How do you power yourself. What are your trade agreements. So i i don't like and i understand the process. It's not that. I don't like it philosophically. What it's not that. I don't like where people's anxieties come from. That makes sense. But i'm going to. I'm going to hold out for this for this for this country and this beautiful gift we'd been given. There's something very special in our unity. And i also think there's something i haven't touched on at all tonight. Which by the way everyone of our speeches this week will be different. We're going to missouri tomorrow then kentucky and one of those. I'm gonna really focus on china but we'll talk about it right now. The chinese communist party is an essential threats everything we love and they would love nothing more than to see america fracture. That'd be a gift to them so for just that reason. Starting stop alone. We should be very very slow to try to self separate. And that's be speaking and current time as it is for a lot of different reasons and i know that there's really good people that are thoughtfully trying to go about it and they they mean well but also understand. This is not anyone hears that dealt with divorce. Knows that it's not exactly something that's enjoyable. And this would be an exponent of a million right and so we have a gift. It's a gift that you're able to drive south and go to dallas go through a checkpoint right. It's a good thing it's try to preserve that thank you. You mentioned bolder and bolder. Atlanta earlier and i was wondering your opinions on how to prevent future shootings on the great great point. So i mean i don't like mass shootings. They are actually statistically comprised and composed of far less of the gun violence deaths in our country. Then people would believe so. Let's take each example. We're still learning about both of them. The obvious thing in front of us is a mental health issue. We know that. I think that medicating our children far too young and our country. The pharmaceutical lobby has way too much power over getting our young children and be taking medication. They should not be taking. And i think that's part of it. It's number one number two. I think that we have to understand that. In these instances we have to have all the facts laid out in front of us before we try to make any sort of public policy decisions. But let me tell you what we shouldn't do. That's okay because that's actually equally as important where we shouldn't do this. We shouldn't pass a bunch of gun registry gun confiscation bills in congress and vote for them. Because something really awful tragic an unspeakable evil happened. That's the lesson that we had from the last ten years. I'm glad we did not rush to judgment after the brutal tragedy and broward florida or a newtown connecticut. There's thirty three thousand gun. Deaths that happen every single year in america. It sounds like a lot right. Two thirds of those are death by suicide two thirds so all of a sudden thirty. I'm only saying this. Because you're going to hear all these arguments repeatedly so i'm gonna give you a little bit of help here. Thirty three thousand numbers. Actually not as high as you might think it's eleven thousand. Eight hundred is accidental. Discharge people just being fools with their weapons. The vast majority of the remaining can be attributed to meet domestic disputes or gang violence using hand. Guns handguns are by far the number one. Firearm used in depth. When it comes to in this country so if it is the public policy position of the democrat party ban handguns than be clear about it. It's a very unpopular position and would do very little actually reduce crime now. They've focused joe biden. Don't even think he knows what this means. I don't think he knows anything but he comes in. He says. I want to ban assault rifles right so made up term doesn't exist. Anyone that understands weapons understand. Firearms says that does not mean anything so they say well. It's a our air stands for armalite rifle not assault rifle. So i'm gonna say something that is hard to say but i'm gonna say it anyway. Liberties hard liberty comes at a price. Sometimes our love of liberty comes up against our love for human beings and they're not. They're not they're not contradictory by the way but sometimes say oh. My goodness these people passed away. Is there something. Do public policy position to make. This never happen again. And i'm here to tell you know any policy prescription wouldn't get your desired outcome actually done and the cost we the sacrificing of all of our liberties together and this comes to a final point. Why do we have the second amendment most conservatives are afraid to talk about this we just dive right into it. It's not for hunting. i love hunting. it's not for self protection. that's fun too. It's because the founding fathers knew that if a citizen read did not have the potential to defend itself against tyranny. This is nothing more than a hostage situation in hong kong. When the chinese communist party was tyrannising their citizens eighteen months ago. They had all the power if every hong kong resident fifteen at home. The chinese communist party when went to the table. They say what do you want. It actually reduces the threat of future violence the fact that people are able to own firearms and weapons. Let me say this. If we have this liberty you have to make the choices with that liberty but you look at the statistics you look at how many people own weapons in our country. How many people in firearms. It's amazing how responsible we actually are with these weapons. The vast majority are people that are engaging in violent crime. Anyway with gang loyalties and they're in the pursuit of crime anyway. It is not the target of their bills as per usual. And so unfortunately. We're gonna have to go through another gun debate in our country. So i'm not going to be answer. The first part of exciting more information. I'll tell you what we're gonna do. We are not going to allow our god-given liberties and rights to be infringed upon. We're not going to allow responsible gun. Owners be slandered in the media and we are not going to allow them to take our weapons away. That's what we're not going. I have a kind of makoto question off that so in light of the recent mass killings. That have happened. How do we educate our our schools. And now i know back in the day there used to be like gun safety in schools. How do we fight back against the government trying to do these unconstitutional gun grabs. And then how do we. How do we get schools to start. Showing guns aren't as bad as the media portrays them. Because i know. Many people think that fifteen is a fully automatic. When it's really just a moderate and it could be. It could be illegal adjusted to be fully automatic and that's against the law so first of all. You need great governors. Like you guys have here. That will protect your second amendment rights. And it's a big deal deal to have good leaders. Don't take that lightly lot of states. And so that's a big deal. You know the fastest growing population america. That's buying firearms right now. Young woman violent crime is on the rise. It is if you care about women's rights which by the way what is the woman they don't they can't answer that question anymore right. What does the woman you wanna see. Just endless you wanna talk about the great equalizer firearms the great equalizer. One of the biggest. And this is. This is not the main reason i already told the main reason the second but a secondary reason is self protection and young women should be given obviously the right and responsibility. I think that's a good way to actually the reason why these grabs have been unsuccessful is because moms and women stand up against it. We kind of know how men are going to vote on this issue. Generally it's like an eighty twenty. But i think we need to lean in on that more because you to ask the question. How are we going to change public perception. We need to talk about how mom moms and women's are the fastest growing gun owners in the country for a reason. And that's a really good thing and so we need to publicize it more. A run advertise whatever it is. We talk about that more because the perception is that it's all men and it's all just for violence. That's just not the case at all. It's mothers that love their family and loved their children and care about their communities that go by those firearms. You wanna go see the biggest increase in gun ownership in the last two years it happened right after all those riots in the country notice how popular ownership was so. I hope that's somewhat helpful. But the other thing is this is that we we cannot in these times of tragedy because it is it's a tragedy allow all of our public policy decisions to be steered by emotion. That's a hard thing to do. Founding fathers remember they put the constitution to spread power throughout time throughout space times important because then cooler heads hopefully prevail. That's why impeachment twelve hours or less a really bad idea. Founding fathers new this you're gonna do something big to it slowly and do it correctly. Measure twice cut once special. You're talking about taking away people's firearms at the biggest thing. I tell everyone. I wish i could say. Let's have this conversation in one week. We have all the facts and we're not completely emotionally driven but unfortunately the media has a narrative. We know that they have an agenda. And that's where you guys come. It should be a no compromise position but do it faction factually do it compassionately but do it directly and have no compromise on this issue. Thank you. I appreciate it. The last question and the will invite your great governor up. yes i. I'm pimm pollard. A former state republican party chair and now national committee women. And i do have my secret weapon here in my personal hold onto it. One of those gun-toting mama's. But i just wanted to say thank you for what you do for what you do for the young people to the young people in the audience republican party. Invite you to come in. But we can't get you to come at charlie tan. So thank you charlie for that. We have a young lady back. Who was the chairman of the democrat party in her county and her college. She told me that you and what you had to say the intelligent conversation that you bring to the young people is what changed her so i just want to say thank you charlie for what you re you for saying that and boston. Don't i just have a question about the. hr one being half. I'll do super-quick. Hr one for reinforce that previous point. I'm sorry great. Everyone involved on the local level. And you guys got great leaders here and we're about to. We're about to hear from one. Hr one nationwide mail in voting. The basically it would destroy fared elections as we know it is trying to fix our elections. They're trying to permanently fix our elections through. Hr one and it's very dangerous. Very destructive your great senators here already come out against it and they deserve to be commended for that. And they're doing the right thing and we're seeing this happen very quickly. It comes down to two people. Joe manchin and cureton cinema and i believe prayer is something that is real. It's not just a meditative thing. Pray for the to democrats in west virginia zona that they will hold the line on the filibuster to not break the filibuster to pass. Hr one it's basically on their hands and that's for a lot of different reasons. Losing georgia for those of us that care about you know. Republicans getting elected turning point being a nonprofit. We have to be careful the way we were that we are very very disappointed by comes the cinema and mansion. That's it and so. If they decide they say we need the sixty vote threshold. That's not going to happen. And so you're senators. Do a wonderful job for you guys here so i'd encourage them to keep on doing that. It's going to come down to some other states like west virginia arizona. Thank you for your intelligent question. So i wanted to say we are honored here to have a wonderful governor. I can tell you from other states that lockdown far too long and infringed on liberties. You got a governor. That has courage and he has guts and you guys should be very thankful for that so. Please welcome the great governor of oklahoma up on this. Thank you so much. Thank you. I understand charlie that this is your first event back in over a year. That's right and you chose oklahoma. We chose it because it's open and you've been doing a wonderful job. You really have been absolutely well you know. We are about freedom in the state of oklahoma one of only nine governors. That did not shut down. That did not do mask. Mandates took a few bullets in march april and may and june. But we're starting now people are starting to wake up and starting to take oklahoma's lead and our numbers are not dissimilar to any other state. The trip much more draconian methods gala california for example still shutting down businesses. A lot of their schools are still shut down. I have been hammering charlie. Our schools to be opened. Now we have every school in the state of oklahoma is over gnarly. You're gonna love this. I'm given an award. An economic development award to gavin newsom okay. He is done more for economic development in the state of oklahoma by what he's doing with his policies and california so commerce has never been bigger. People are just sick of this off so happy that you're here and i really want to thank the young people in this room for being engaged. I walked in here. And i saw this room filled to come here. You speak. i mean it's just it warms. My heart i'm telling you. An informed. citizenry is so important. What you know the issues like you said we are on the right side of this and so just do not be afraid. The bible teaches us three hundred sixty five times. I think god tells us do not be afraid. Be bold. And i'm just so sick of people telling us how we should live and we believe in personal responsibility and oklahoma. So long as i'm your governor. I'm gonna make sure that we stand for those god given rights we stay on this for the second amendment and we'll protect our liberties in the state of oklahoma. So thank you guys. And i give it up guys. Great governor of oklahoma doing amazing. So thank you so. I just want to thank all you guys. Come tonight stay engaged. Stay involved you but wonderful leader here. I want all of you guys to run for office and do all sorts of different things and thank you for coming tonight and make this the starting point for your involvement if you're not involve a turning point. usa. Please do that and start. A high school group started college group. And if we have just peaked your curiosity your action will determine. The future of the country believe that the country will be saved. We've been given this gift. Stay involved do not be intimidated. I want to thank our amazing purple shirt warriors. What i'm gonna call them. They do a great job and also just a quick thing of total self promotion. If you are not yet subscribed to charlie kirk show. I know you laugh. But how great would it be to beat the new york times on the podcast charts by tomorrow. That'd be great. And so you take out your phone and just keep in charlie kirk podcast app. It really helps us and makes us less likely to be cancelled. So you guys own the future of the country act. It believe it and our best days are ahead. God bless you guys thank you so much. Thanks so much for listening everybody e mail us your questions. Free charlie. Kirk dot com. Do you want to get involved a turning point. Usa go to dp usa dot com. Thanks so much for listening everybody. God bless for more many of these stories and news you can trust. Go to charlie kirk dot com.

mike lindell charlie kirk Dr seuss america Mike lindell charlie oklahoma Charlie irks Charlie kirk Donald trump dr oni blackstock dr anthony George floyd derek chauvin oakland university of oklahoma meena harris president trump michelle suco
'There is no going back' on police reform, Mayor of Pittsburgh tells college journalists

The Chuck ToddCast: Meet the Press

18:02 min | 11 months ago

'There is no going back' on police reform, Mayor of Pittsburgh tells college journalists

"The Press College Roundtable edition where we give college journalists from across the country, the opportunity to ask questions. They want answers to from newsmakers here from this week we've seen institutions start to respond to demands for change. While in other areas, citizens are taking matters into their own hands. Mayors across the country grappling with local level challenges of keeping citizen safe during a health crisis and public protests, while also debating how to reform policing dramatically my guess this week. It's Pittsburgh Mayor Bill. Peduto, asking the questions are student journalists. First up. Is Sarah Beth go vera? She's a Grad student. The University of Oklahoma where she covers politics and law. Sarabeth tell us a little bit about yourself. I got into journalism after my family became a foster family to a girl, whose parents were deported to Mexico, and I realized that nobody will make a change that I want for my sister. Until people start to care, next up is David Wolfe Bender. He is a rising freshman at the University of Indiana and he's been covering the growth of community policing for public radio in Indianapolis David Tell us a little about yourself, yeah! I live in Indianapolis Indiana. it's a very racially segregated city unfortunately. Most of the local stories I actually covered for WNYC news when I was working for that public radio station in in Indianapolis, cues May about policy changes policy initiative shifts between the cities, minority populations and the police force in the city very good and finally avalon Cornell. At Washington, university in the state of Virginia where she's a news editor at the college newspaper. The Ring Tom Fai avalon tell us a little bit about your latest coverage. Thanks check as journalists at a college. One topic uncovering is the impact of long held traditions, students today, who may not fit the mold of a typical w now student. For example we covered these circulation of a petition from students who did not feel comfortable with having the portrait of a confederate General Robert E. Lee on their diplomas wanted the option to opt out. Mary interesting I have a feeling I'll be very curious to see if the namely is still associated with that university before this decade and but David The first question goes to you. Yeah so Mr Mayor I WANNA go back to two thousand sixteen David. Brown, who back then was a dallas. Police chief. He's actually navy heads the Chicago Police Department. He said this he said quote. We're asking cops too much. In this country, we are every societal failure. We put it off on the cops to solve. He went on to name mental health. Drug Prevention is to specific areas that we passed onto. Cops are pass onto the. Two part question, do you agree with David Brown's assessment and if so do you support increased funding in other areas to lessen the burden on police? It's a great way of talking about a very controversial that you right now. There's some draw of motion. Around Being discussed is the monthly. There's a lot of. Are Watching wasting work like? I agree one hundred percent with what the police chief set and we see even more today were homelessness addiction mental health issues are the forefront of every cities agenda. if we only use release order to try to solve those problems than we're doing a disservice, not only to the police, the people verve. Increase funding. Where do you plan to have that money? Come from I guess. Do you support taking some of the places budget to support those issues at a city level? Well there's a dilemma here. Because at the same time cities around the United States are facing a budget deficit, due to the of Artis are revenue. are where. We're being. A twenty percent reduction. Gears. Binding, the revenue needed in order to provide additional services to. Digital. Necessarily have to be done by police. Who Fire? Partnership began with the product community, but they become. Aren't of Workers Community one. Fan. World. Sarabeth, the next question you sir. Mr Mayor, allegheny county is thirteen percent black. Thirty percent of your black population lives below the poverty line. Your state also leads the nation highest average student debt per bar were so, how do you plan on adequately? Preparing black high school students to pay for colleges, especially with the additional financial burdens cost covid nineteen. Will again it goes where I said before there have to be. There have to be creative partnerships that are created in the city of Pittsburgh. We've created a partnership with our largest employer of the University of Pittsburgh. Medical Center. UPN's. The has contributed to scholarship on where each. Ratchet waiting two point Oh grade point average. War. You're guaranteed. Dollar per semester fellowship. For College obviously the cost. Is Much more enough. Is a adequate in order to be able to community college in order to get the first few years four in the. Boy To another university later. So I looked into this and the most affordable higher education in your area is the Community College of Allegheny County, which has a fourteen percent enrollment rate. Your two largest universities in the area is Carnegie Mellon and the University of Pittsburgh which has a three percent five percent black enrollment rate respectively. You've mentioned all of these programs that you're doing to try to close that gap between the Community College and these higher levels of education. So where is the failing? Failing well CMU in Carnegie Mellon or. More global than the other institutions. There's seven universities within the city of Pittsburgh the immediate area of few miles right outside. Carnegie Mellon in particular has very waterlogged. Population University? has a very strong national. Burgers schools are probably on the out wire. burn numbers. On saying that we can't do better in that we should not be. Are doing more but again. I think that a lot of areas that we see. Failure is occurring, not preparing our students within the city. To change the pathological condition. And happened or their senior year that apple. Early on another program that we started in partnership with Dolly Parton, Foundation. every burden born. is now given a library The first five years of your life. Sixty and all in order to be able to bring the letter tabular in your child's life. Berry Berry from the beginning. AVALON! You have the next question great. Thank you thanks again Mr. Mayor, for coming on last Thursday proposed more reforms, the police use of force policies in the wake of George Floyd's death while in police custody, but some controversial tactics like the chokehold were already abandoned Pittsburgh since. This is a problem application. How do you plan to enforce rules? That may already be in place. Well the album the. A Gamble Way Kim Bad. There were four that the campaign identified. It's erred one. All. already-instituted out of the. Having our police look. They said we're all eight. There's a reason that we're not getting credit for the other four in that's. To how we're using it through training our using it through consistent policy. Whether or May? Art of a city code or just a policy in the police bureau so it it's not enough simply to have these has policies police bureau? They need to be embedded into the very fabric in the code of city, and they need to be a continual practice, but simply when you're a cadet going through an academy. On a continual. You have to have training. In order to be able to keep fresh. With with those me, do you? Those is just the foundation those will according to the. People move have created that that campaign reduce the number of deaths by seventy two percent. Eight actions are taken now getting beyond that is where the. Truth Functions Reform. It's not about more. What is the police officer? Can others will to help people better? Lessen. The likelihood of getting into that will. Lead be. The vice president of the Pittsburgh, fraternal order of police voiced concerns in a letter over politicians lack of support for the police. How do you plan to get the police unit specifically on board for further reforms? I. was on the receiving end of one of those letters. And Basically? You know where worthy emotional level is right now. We're all and I don't mean that is elected officials I just all of to nation. Winner flight. And when you're. Little. Rational not always A. At the. Police Union. Whoopie. A way of understanding. Leads in urban areas. They are much different they were. Hundred years ago years ago or either. The. Up Cities, are you. The people that live in the cities want see societal change within police. Then of the CD or opportunities where certain functions that they had been asked to do. Will be better served by others and where their operations will be redefine. TAP! -pointment training and the use of force. For the future, so it'll be a part of that. Discussion requires being a partner in recognizing changes. That, we're at a point now. In this country were it is going to occur, and would you like to be a part of that discussion the power to? Protest it in Tryon's thought. Thirty, station. There is no going back at this point. It's only a question of what that reform will end up. For cities all. Venture. Mayor Bill. PEDUTO you've. To me shown an excellent giving us an excellent example of how complicated all of this is going to be that. You may be able to have a good headline of where we're. Form is headed, but this is going to be complicated. Every city is a bit different. Every one of these reform debates is going to be very different, and so I thought this was an excellent example, and as you can see. These journalists ask some tough questions as well. But in the right spirit of all of it in servicing these tough, these tough issues that all of us have to grapple with right now Mr Mayor I wanNA thank you. Thank you meet the press coverage Hanta. Students themselves. Dialogue that needs to happen right now. This is the type of discussion. We're not ready yet for it. I mean because the emotion levels there. It's very hard for someone. Differentiate mayor's responsibility. He buildings from being burned. PEOPLE NOT BEING ERC. Thinking needed and also as an advocate racial justice in this country right now, people stuttering. The very hard for them. Realize that. That's part of your job. Marriage are under the gun. If we. As new models. Using the. Burger ships it's. About gawking policing in a whole different way, you're standing that a lot of that in being done through. Social work better than it can be done through law school. Understand with the whole community has to be a part of it. It's much it's writer. Check in walk away. It is getting involved reporter leader as a Labor leader as a nonprofit leader as an institution and not just relying on government this all. Then we could have real change now. Mr Mar well put thank you, sir, much appreciate it. All. Right, I'm going to turn now to our student journalists. Sarabeth David Avalon Avalon. Let's start with you. I thought that was an interesting. Dialogue there right at the end with the mayor. Of. I think we're GONNA see some city governance gets transformed a lot of the next decade, and the fact is I. Don't think anybody knows what that's GonNa. Look like yet, and that's kind of what I took away from the mayor. What did you take away? Absolutely I agree especially his point about bringing in more people from the community kind of transforming the ideas that we have a police in great now it'll be very interesting to see what Pittsburgh looks like in the next couple of years, if as he remains mayor and also just interesting to see these creative partnerships that he was talking about. Come to fruition. David, what'd you take away? I think there are a couple of things that. Really to me, I mean one of the things he mentioned is the complexity of this entire thing. It's definitely not an easy situation. We're dealing with right now. And the point that I thought was interesting. He talked about philanthropy a little bit. And the the key lying there was not all cities can do this. And that's true I think you know you look. Across the country, not all cities have the resources with that therapy to really make those changes in order to fund the organizations they WANNA fund to Kinda. Take away from the pieces responsibility. We talked about getting so a lot of really. Oh like. intimacies in terms of how. We treat these situations. It's not a simple issue. It's very complex. Sarabeth I'll be honest? I think your question him about the University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon in particular, and it really stood out to me, and he didn't have a good answer because he'd look it's. Institutions probably have to answer your question in some way but Carnegie Mellon. What a great example! Talks about private partnerships Carnegie Mellon is a monument to the robber barons right to the to the wealthy of over a century ago. Andrew Carnegie. Andrew Mellon there. And yet it is not serving the public in the way that perhaps the city would like it to serve. Absolutely, and and I think the really interesting thing here is about how this university. He couldn't answer for them, but he can prepare the high school students so I asked him. Where's the failing and he doesn't have a good answer for that? Because ultimately it's not his duty as mayor to prepare college students to make that job from their associated community college all the way to the four level for year colleges, and it's going to be really really interesting to see what Carnegie Mellon and other universities do to make sure that college is affordable, especially with all this additional financial burdens and less on campus jobs for students. Right never mind the universities. Themselves are feeling the pinch financially. As well, so it's it's It's it's an ongoing challenge on every level. What a terrific panel! This week! You! The three worst is good as as good as we've had. We've had some excellent journalists each time. I always love it when the interviewees a little bit uncomfortable in the right kind of way, and that's what you guys chief today so well done all right. We're going to leave it there i. want to thank you again for another excellent. Addition of our college roundtable. We'll be back next week with meet the Press College Roundtable edition. Until then we'll see you.

Pittsburgh Carnegie Mellon University of Pittsburgh Mr. Mayor David Brown Carnegie Mellon Indianapolis Chicago Police Department David allegheny county University of Oklahoma University of Indiana Carnegie Mellon Andrew Carnegie David Wolfe Bender Robert E. Lee Washington Peduto
Free Solo

The Document

22:27 min | 2 years ago

Free Solo

"KCRW sponsors include net flicks presenting a new original series from the creators of monk, the good cop stars, Tony danza, and Josh grobian as a father and son odd couple in this comedic mystery series with heart the good cop now streaming only on Netflix. What you're hearing is the sound of Alex Honolulu, climbing, El capitan. That's the thirty two hundred feet of granite that towers over Yosemite valley. Alex calls it the most impressive wall on earth. And he would know because he's the first and only person to ever free solo l. cap, which means that he claimed it alone without ropes or any other kind of safety gear. I know it sounds a little over the top, but it was quite literally perfection or death. And this is the voice of mountaineer and photographer, Jimmy chin, who was there filming at all? I've always been conflicted about shooting some free soloing just because it's so dangerous. It's hard to not imagine your friend falling through the frame to his wealth from KCRW. I Matt Hoffman. This is the document looking at the world through the lens of documentary film name is Anita pill, and I'm a professor of law at the university of Oklahoma call from my face drop because I knew it was gonna get in on the ground floor and be Wells' forever and ever. The document is case abuse, mash up of documentaries and radio. This week's episode is free solo. People in the documentary world are always going on about whether the presence of the camera changes. What had captures. The usually don't talk about whether their cameras will kill their subjects. But that's exactly what CHAI Vesa rally and Jimmy Chen had to worry about how they were filming, Alex hanalei, climbing, okapi, ten for their new movie, free solo, and they started worrying about it. The moment, Alex uttered the words, El capitan, and free solo. In the same sentence, I immediately asked CHAI three or four times. He said what he said, oh, he's, he said he wants to free solo l. cap. And I said, he said, what you? I mean, it took me a bit of time to really kind of wrap my head around it at which point I took a step back and said, you know, I don't. I don't know if we should make this film because your mind goes to immediately the worst case scenario China, you remember those early conversations. No, it was very intense. It really was a moment too. I pause and to stop and say, like, is there something we even want to be involved in. Looks good. Looking wiry Thirty-three-year-old with big Brown eyes. He looks pretty remarkable, but he really isn't like the rest of us. There's been a lot of speculation about like how I deal with fear and like how they were the free solo people are just like, oh, well, she must be thrill-seeker. There must be something defective. The thing is that free solo climbing is an insanely dangerous sport. The list of famous free solo climbers reads a little like the obituary page. So Alex has a lot of different nicknames Spock, no big deal. Honolulu Han solo and Spock because because he's kind of very rational, non motive person. Alex may just have been born like that. He certainly was as CHAI, puts it a really geeky awkward scared kid. And that didn't seem to change much. As he got older, there's definitely time when I started climbing outside more, and I was starting to road trip and go to camp grounds, but I was too frayed to talk to strangers. So I was doing a lot of Soling or just a lot of climbing by myself just because I didn't know anybody. I didn't wanna talk to anybody. So to dissect that a little, it was safer to climb rocks by himself than talk to another human being. And even to this day, you can sense a certain distance between Alex and other people who were like, oh, it'd be terrible. But if I kill myself in accident, they'll be like, oh, that was too bad. But like life goes on, you know, like they'll be fine. I mean, and I've had this wrong with girls a lot. You know, they're like, oh, I really care about, you know, you don't like if I perish like it doesn't matter like you'll find somebody else. That's not. That's not the big deal. Given that attitude, you won't be surprised to hear that Alex hulled mostly lives alone in a van. It's a trick out van, but still it's van. I mean, I love I love being in the van pro if you'll extra comfortable in the van now because I've lived in it for nine years. Alex drove is fan to Yosemite to get ready for the most treacherous free climb in history. It would require nerves of steel and an almost inhuman amount of strength and skill and preparation, each moon, each tiny handhold, and foothold had to be thought through and practiced and practiced. And that's what did for months before he climbed El cap pitch. One day left earns the splitter feels more secure pitch to trust right foot rock on trust the fee right hand underplay eight easy. Go fast, stay outside of the down climb Kirpal twenty six to corner. Right foot backstop wall stand, huge ear jug and match the big jug. Crack, Stacey, Raihan downplaying. You can see why Chevy a camera and Alex's face while he was hanging, but his fingernails two thousand feet in the air seemed like a question about idea. But if he was going to make this climb and someone was going to film it, there probably wasn't anyone better to do it than shy Esser aliens. Amy chin, Chai's, inexperienced documentary filmmaker. And Jimmy is a bit of a mountaineering God. He and the guys would be up there with them because them his high angle crew had filmed thousands of hours hanging off of mountains, and most of them had known Alex for years. And ultimately, that's why Jimmy and China sided to do the film. Someone was going to film it in who would Alex most trust to be there alongside him. You know, that's where we landed, and they trusted Alex to show good judgment about whether he should make the climb or not. We all wanted to support Alex as his friend to do it, you know. But we also wanted to be very careful about, you know, shielding him from any. External pressure of the film if that makes sense that he needed to do it for the film. So part of the conversations I had with the crew were that we would never ask Alex when he was going to do it, it should never be directed from our side. And so that was a challenge because we never knew when he might go for it. And also this was a secret. I'm really this entire time. We're making this movie. It's a secret because if it got out it would just be extra pressure on hell IX our code word for him was was Bambi because he has he's big Brown eyes. We'd say, okay, Bambi is on the move. Watching the crew prepare for the shoop thousands of feet in the air is a spine tingling site times. They're hanging their with their cameras by a single rope. Because Mikey, I think I'll probably. If you're gonna shoot that lower face, I'll probably shoot here when you have five people on wall. That's a huge amount of exposure to the risks mistakes. Yes, they're very simple mistakes that could be have catastrophic outcomes and shooting in the mountains was even more complicated than normal because of their ongoing to go. She with Alex about where it was okay for them to be and where it wasn't kid for them to be. And then just to Cameron above sitting above the fuller picture. Distracting. Yeah. Distracting, but it's also like. Nobody wants to see that they talked and planned and practiced while Alex climbed and reclaimed l. cap with rope and harness literally memorizing every nook and cranny of his climb where we up here again. Practice makes perfect. Far from perfect. Signing more practice. But for Alex, I'm guessing that dangling from a giant slab of rock was better than what was waiting for him back on the ground. You know, here's a guy who's not so comfortable with intimacy. And so every night when he comes home, he's gotta have an intimate conversation with three strangers sitting in his van and talk about like his deepest memories and like painful memories and his feelings. Part of the with the word, you know, saying love and stuff. Is that like in mind, higher life? No one in any part of my family has ever use that word. And that was one of the things that always kind of worried me about, you know, do you really want to get inside this guy's head at this moment, his life, my mom's favorite sayings or good enough, isn't. No matter how well ever do anything. It's not that good. I don't know. I always wondering like, do you really go to therapy in the middle of the hardest thing you've ever done in your life? Are you really going to talk about how you feel questions like those had to be put aside in fact, it was too late for any doubt about what China and Jimmy were doing because Alex Hahn was about to free solo okapi ten that's coming up in a minute. You're listening to the document. Support comes from net flicks presenting a new original series. The good cop from the creators of monk, the good cop stars, Tony, danza, and Josh Grogan. Tony plays a street smart ex detective who goes to live with his son after being released on parole, Josh place, his son a by the books, detective on Brooklyn's toughest cases together the father and son odd couple become unofficial partners in this comedic mystery series with heart the good cop now streaming only on net flicks. I'm just this week on. Don't add me. I'm talking to Randolph's y'all. Netflix is like if you think about it more like just Netflix is my television. And that's how I watch TV and and I'm trying to make something that you love and your spouse and your next door neighbor loves and your kid left. So my thing is Saturday night and you want to watch something that you have high confidence that you're gonna find them, you love on Netflix. You can find don't add me on apple podcasts or wherever you listen. I'm at Holman in this is the document from KCRW. Today's episode is free solo, which is also the name of the sweat inducing documentary about Alex Hanell's climb of Yosemite, El capitan without a rope or any kind of safety gear filmmakers CHAI Esa ralian Jimmy chin almost didn't make them because they were terrified that they'd witness their friend falling to his death, and it somehow it would be their fault. And now they were about to find out if they've made a wise decision in the wee hours of Wednesday, November fifteenth, two thousand sixteen, Alex hulled walked through a lush meadow to the base of l. capi tan something he'd done. Maybe a hundred times only this time. The only safety gear he had with him was the little Chuck bag that hung from his waist. Jimmy, do you copy. Jimmy. Just started climbing. He started out fine, but after like six hundred feet, something happened. The sucks. I don't want to be here. Hey, whoever's on the radios, Alex, I think I'm bailing. Could you repeat. Bailing from ours. That's correct. The first time I watched the film, I thought that must have been disconcerting for you because it was like, oh my God, he's not this Ice Man. He, he has feelings Omar that feels unsafe. Try with every watching. History, scary. And then the second time I watched it, I thought exactly the opposite, which is you must have thought if he feels comfortable enough not to do the thing, even though this camera crews relying on him to do this or we're not gonna have a movie, then you know he's gonna make a good decision and it's not gonna be forced by your presence. Well, I think it was both. Right was both feelings of the same time, but talk about cameras interfering. I mean, that was like, you know, those types of moments or the worst moments to film, but you know, you have to have the for the movie, but you know, you're just making them feel terrible by filming them. Yeah. I mean, I was so happy that I did not have to be there. I was happy. I was off on the wall. Because nobody wanted to film that moment. So there was six months or so between the first attempt and the time that you so that was November, and then you came back and in June, what happened in the interim? Was there any sense that he might not come back and do it? Well, he bought a house and we would visit him in Vegas and check in. So we always wondered what it seems so far away. Like is he gonna go back when we knew he was going back at least practice and knowing him for ten years. I just thought it would be very hard for him to go back to Yosemite and look at all cap every single day and not be tempted and what he ended up doing was kind of transforming or bring up another level his own body and fitness. I remember checking in with him being like how you feeling about l. cap and he's like, I'm gonna be fittest. Fuck. Back in Yosemite, Alex started setting up again for his climb and on the afternoon of June. Fifth, two thousand seventeen. He was hanging out at making dinner and his fan with Jimmy and says, I well, I'm, I'm seriously thinking about going scrambling tomorrow. Guess what? He calls it scrambling and so he said, okay, but it's five o'clock. Can you guys be ready for that tomorrow? And I was, yes. Sure, of course. No problem. And we actually hung out for another forty, five minutes just being casual just to make it feel like there wasn't any pressure and he said, don't you need to go. So then we walked out, I made the call and everybody, you know, moves into action and rigged all night, and everybody was in position when he was ready to leave in the morning. So when you say, read all night, that means that you climb to the top of capitain and repelled down so that people were hanging there and you did that in the middle of the night. We had people going up from the bottom when we also had people coming down from the top. And you know, I mean, there was several thousand feet of rope that we were putting in making sure that they weren't in his way, and everybody was in the right position. And everybody's, you know, was clear on there. Shot lists and the big conversation also was that remember that you're climbers first, then you're filming stay focused on your job. Don't get distracted. With five cameraman hanging from the mountain, an extremely long lens shooting from the ground in a helicopter filming high above, Alex began his climb. So if it's a low gravity day. Buddy. One of the big issues in the negotiations about what would work for Alex for this shoot was how they'd cover really tricky point in the climb known as the boulder problem. It's a very intricate sequence. You've got your right hand on cram left town, aside pool, and then you put your right foot onto this long list of minute. Incredibly technical moves in in a crazy mid air spread eagle karate. Kick thing a karate kick feels that you're falling into the other wall which feels outrageous. Alex, and the crew were afraid that having a person there at that point was just going to be way too distracting and Franklin under the cameraman wanted to be there anyway. But we felt like it was such a critical point in film and such a critical point in the climb that it had to get covered. And so we thought, okay, well, let's put remote cameras there. And even initially he wasn't necessarily comfortable about that and we didn't want to push it at all for a while. I was thinking, well, they're just won't. We won't have that coverage. And then one day he said, oh yeah, you should have remote cameras there. It's fine. And we were like, okay, he must be feeling pretty confident. But you know, he says this thing in the film, which I think is really honest, which is he doesn't mind volunteers, death, but he does with his best friends watching. No one needs that memory. Just did the karate CAC. He's got it. Yeah. He must be so stoked, the boulder problem is part of what's called the crux, the hardest part of the climb, which doesn't mean the rest of it was easy. But after Alex got through the cracks, he really began to power to the top. Alex is having the best day of his life. The average time, it takes a recreational climber with Queant to summit l. copies, four days, Alex Hanell approach the summit in just under four hours and Jimmy was there to give him a huge hug. Oh, god. Hundred just over well. Yeah, very emotional. For me. Like a gigantic way up. Been. So delighted. So obviously the cameras didn't kill Alex Hanell on capital and in a way it was kind of the opposite. You're absolutely right. You know, we spent so much time thinking about, you know, the negative impact of the filming process. We never really imagined that the filming would actually be a catalyst for him to be better prepared. And that was a very pleasant surprise, but it seems like it was even more than that. It seems like maybe the come rotary and the practice and the moral support in the sense that he wasn't alone while he was up there that helped give him why I don't know what it gave him, but it gave him something that really made a difference. My proof is a tiny little moment that happens just after he gets through the crux, he sees a cameraman hanging there and he looks up at it was a big grin and he says. He says year buddy, and then he goes on with his climb. I think it's probably the first time that Alex could celebrate a solo with other people. Right? You know, because he always would solo by himself. He wouldn't tell anybody. And in this like the greatest all of his life, he had a team of people. He really trusted and who had worked with him for two years next to him. So I think you always talks about that top out when he sees all the guys like it was just, it was amazing to be able to celebrate with your friends, which was a new experience for him the night after the climb, the producer of free solo showed up to cook dinner for everyone. Yes, which was like the best meal we've ever had any. Everyone was starving and it just it was such a good meal, all his up to shop, and everyone just hung out and Alex had died grin on his face for like the next. I don't know two weeks. It was a very collective cya of relief, but also just this great moment because it ended up really feeling like a big team effort and just to be a part of, you know what was able to Chievo and then to be able to film it. I mean, it really was one of the greatest filming experiences. I think we've had an most terrifying at the same time. And that's the document for this week. Free solo isn't theaters. Now you can find a link to this amazing movie as well as Jimmy and chives, last heart-stopper called Meru on our website at KCRW dot com. Slash the document. And we've also got other stuff about Alex Hanell than links to the clips in the intro to the show if you want to communicate with us, and I hope that you will send us an Email at the document at KCRW dot ORG or get social with us at document KCRW on Facebook, Twitter, and please remember to rate us on itunes, it makes a huge difference. I'm at Holzmann amac produced today's show with Sarah Pellegrini, Mike Schlitt and Ray Gorna. Thanks to just Kong and the international documentary association for their help. The document is a production of KCRW. KCRW sponsors include net flicks presenting a new original series from the creators of monk, the good cop stars, Tony danza, and Josh Grogan as a father and son odd couple in this comedic mystery series with heart the good cop now streaming only on Netflix.

Alex Jimmy Alex Hanell KCRW Alex Honolulu Netflix Yosemite Alex hanalei Tony danza China free solo climbing El capitan Jimmy chin Alex hulled Jimmy Chen Yosemite valley university of Oklahoma Matt Hoffman Alex Hahn Anita pill
FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Eugene Volokh

Deep Background with Noah Feldman

33:48 min | 9 months ago

FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Eugene Volokh

"Pushkin. Hey, it's now a I wanna tell you about a podcast from New York magazine. It's called pivot and it's hosted by new. York magazine editor at Large Cara Swisher and nyu business professor Scott Galloway. Every Tuesday and Friday. Karen Scott breakdown, the major news stories of the week and take a sharp look at how they're changing the way we communicate vote shop and live. You can expect razor-sharp insights. Bold predictions on a declaration of the week's big winners and losers. Karen Scott. Banter and bicker at the speed of your twitter feed and the show is as funny as it is informative. So subscribe to pivot with Cara Swisher and Scott Galloway for free and your favorite podcast APP to get new episodes automatically from New, York magazine and the Vox media podcast network. A question was nagging me who killed truth. This truth problem it isn't just bad. It's deadly. I'm Jill Lepore and I'm a historian at Harvard and a staff writer at the New, Yorker? I spent a lot of time trying to solve mysteries like this one. So I decided to start a podcast. It's called the last archive hell tell ten stories from the last Hundred Years History of America and our arguments about truth and evidence. The last archive brought to you by Pushkin Industries. From Pushkin Industries, this is deep background the show where we explore the stories behind the stories in the news I'm Noah Feldman. Today, we're continuing our freedom of speech series and I'm going to share with you a conversation. I had with an expert whom I admire greatly and with whom I very frequently disagree. Eugene Volokh Teaches First Amendment law at the UCLA School of law. He's the author of a casebook about freedom of speech called the First Amendment and related statutes, his larvae articles, and his friend of the court briefs have been cited in numerous supreme court cases. He's also the founder and Co author of the Volokh Conspiracy, a leading legal blog which sometimes depending on the issue tends towards the conservative or Libertarian. In the world of legal academia where I have my day job Eugene is universally recognized across the range of political opinions as one of the most significant and influential voices about the freedom of speech. I spoke to you Jean back in March. A. Eugene I wonder if you would start by telling our listeners, how you got interested in the freedom of speech because your profile up until the time when you did Fancy Appellate Court and Supreme, court clerkship and became a law professor was extremely unusual. So how did you get interested in this issue? In the first place? I've been interested in a constitutional in particular free speech loss since I was in my mid teens actually went to law school planning and becoming a prosecutor and then I realized. In Law School two things one is that prosecutors generally didn't do much with law like most lawyers they did things with facts as is right. That's what prosecutors should be mostly focused on his figuring out the facts, improving the facts, but I was interested in law so that meant I'd either be an appellate lawyer professor and then I saw how much fun my professors were having. So throw I'll be a law professor and turned out that There were interesting to say about free speech loss I was delighted. Now you gene. You say that you're interested in this time you were a teenager, but you're not by any ordinary standard, a normal teenager. So you you came to the US when you were seven from the then Soviet Union and then you graduated from college at Ucla with a degree in computer science and math when you were fifteen, what were you doing when you were starting to think about this as a teenager was that when you? Were actively doing the job of a computer programmer. Yeah. I worked as a computer programmer actually ever since I was twelve and I was happy to be a programmer and was excited about my programming career. But at the same time I was interested in this to the side as I think. So many people are right My guess is a lot of your listeners who are interested in free speech law or law aren't lawyers they're just. People who think that this is an important part of their civic lives and their intellectualize is getting a better sense of the rules the governor. Society. So I was interested in it. Then kind of on the side and then I realized something I might want to turn into a career much as I enjoyed being computer programmer. I wanted to be more directly involved in these big picture legal and public policy issues and I got exactly what I wanted. Knock Wood. Do, you think that having come from the Soviet Union even as a young kid was relevant to your. Formation of us in the First Amendment Space I sometimes hear some of my students whose families came from the former Soviet Union talking about how they're stronger pro rights viewpoint in some cases even strongly libertarian perspectives come as a reaction against seeing what communism could do in practice. Yeah. You know it's so hard to say in part because actually lots of positions on free speech issues are very very far from the position. So you know I hesitate ascribe that much to my background in part because I can't step out of my background I. Can't say well what had been born in the US what would I have thought I don't know what wouldn't be meet. I will say that earlier in my life actually took a less speech protective you I. Think my views were perhaps some of more open to what people would say reasonable moderate regulations of free speech. Then over time I came to the view that the government can't be trusted with even these supposedly reasonable and moderate regulations but I'm not sure that that was because of my background and my parents background in communist Russia. You know it's interesting. You mention the question of trusting the government and I. do think that for a lot of people that comes down to how they formed their views about free speech it's how much do they trust the government to be able to engage in certain forms of reasonable regulation? Obviously, that's not the only way to think about it, but do you think that that is? The way that one should form views on free expression. Sort of you know the more you distrust the government, the more pro free speech you should be I think that's right. I think you hit the nail on the head there at least as a practical matter for most people I think for not just how most people think about about how they should think about it let's take an. Example people talk about fake news and isn't fake news bad. Well, yes. Certainly. Outright hoaxes or bad lies or bad. Even honest mistakes especially, about important subjects such as vaccination or the corona virus or foreign policy or wide range of other things. Those are bad why not allow the government to prohibit those things. Once there's a trial, let's say or some hearing in which it's proved. That something is false. Well, if you trust the government to sort the true from the false, then that could be a big net plus to the quality of public debate on the other hand. If you don't trust the government not because he thinks that the government is all was awful. No because government is composed of people and people aren't always trustworthy and people have both a subconscious bias. And also are pushed in particular directions by their own political soap interest Then I think you might come to the view that it's better to tolerate a good deal of falsehood and to give the government the power to ban certain things that might be true on the grounds that their false. I think one way of thinking about is thinking about history. So let's say there's some particular dispute. Over whether the killing of Armenians during World War, one was a deliberate genocide or just the vicissitudes of war. Now, I'm not an expert on the subject. My understanding is that people who studied generally do think that this was a genocide but how do I know that to the extent I know it or the let's just say to the extent I believe it. I. Believe it because. Historians seem to have come to that consensus and the best way we can figure out what is true about history about social sciences and especially about philosophy religion the like his based on consensus of people who really have studied things closely. But I know that only because I know that they could study all possible opinions on this and hear all opinions and air opinions even ones that ultimately their colleagues degree with and through the continued process of hearing all those opinions they consensus emerges and remains broadly accepted by historians if I learned that. It's illegal to deny that this was a genocide then I would lose confidence in that very consensus because I would no longer think that this is something that historians are coming to after hearing all the arguments because some of the arguments now it's illegal to make to them So it's actually I. Think Better for understanding of truth if people can make statements, even false statements because only that way can be sure that all of the arguments have been aired and the whatever consensus there is is as best we can tell an accurate one. You know it's interesting that in this particular instance, the law in Turkey I, she runs the other way. It's a crime to say that it was a genocide and that leads to a question that I really want to ask you, which is about how the experiences of different countries might be relevant to creating different rules here. Time said that if you look at the example of Germany or other European countries where fascism or national socialism or other ideologies. Actually managed to swamp liberalism and then led to the emergence of totalitarianism. That in those countries, there might be a strong pragmatic reason to outlaw some things that are ideas or opinions that the United States permits, for example, prohibiting racism or prohibiting That dehumanize people on the basis of their membership in a group. The argument is something like those countries have learned through hard experience that they cannot trust the free marketplace of ideas to actually clear and get people not to believe in these terrible viewpoints to the contrary when these views were expressed under relatively free circumstances, they actually led to people adopting them, and then sometimes the conclusion is drawn from that that depending on your national experience you should. Be Able as a state to outlaw hate speech and to outlaw other forms of racism tau law political organizations that rely on these points of view. Do you find yourself sympathetic to that at all Jews think to yourself? Well, maybe in the United States we shouldn't do this but in Germany, it's actually appropriate for them to have a law that prohibits the Nazi party and its symbols. No I don't I should say I specialize in American free speech law I know a lot about it. I don't know a lot about foreign rules. So I've got acknowledged that I have limited expertise in foreign law matters. But if you ask me the question I, think the answer is that the same reasons that justify skepticism of the government here justify skeptics in the government there, and that's true if it's the Germans trying to ban A. Nazi advocacy or more broadly racist advocacy or of course, race racism is potentially very. Borodin. Ill defined category or supposedly dehumanizing advocacy or for that matter if poles or Ukrainians want to ban communist advocacy communism is, of course, caused as much misery in those countries Nazism caused in Germany possibly more. So you say, well, those countries have concluded based on the judgement of history that they can't trust the marketplace of ideas but I should think that the. Judgement of history has made it even clearer that they can't trust the government policing the marketplace of ideas that in fact, as I understand it, Weimar Germany did try to suppress the Nazi party, which of course was engaged not just in advocacy outright crimes didn't do a great job of it, and then of course, Nazi Germany and then in eastern Germany communist Germany they try to regulate what they thought was in badly working marketplace of ideas by. Suppressing, liberal democratic advocacy So the question is always comparative is not is the marketplace of ideas perfect whereas it even very good. The question is whether we're likely to get better results by allowing people to say things even evil things even wrongheaded things or by allowing the government to control what it is that people say and I'm pretty skeptical that giving the government that kind of power is going to be terribly helpful. We'll be right back. Do you ever send money abroad. If you do try transfer wise, they say you can never have something that's cheap fast and reliable. You usually have to settle for one or two of those things but with transfer wise, you get all three when you send money internationally with transfer wise it's cheap because unlike banks transfer is never hides an extra fee and the exchange rate, you always get the real rate when you send money to over eighty countries transfer wise is fast to forty percent of their transfers arrived within an hour and seventy five percent in less than a deck in this business. That's crazy fast. The top aloft transfer wise has amazing. Service their website an apple easy to use and their customer support is always responsive. That's what you want when it comes to your money. But this is only a podcast at if you need more convincing, just ask any of transfer wise is eight million customers who save nearly four million dollars in bad rates and fees every day the proof is in the pudding. Join them and get your first transfer free by visiting transfer. Wise. Dot. com slash podcast. Deep background is supported by audible with an unbeatable selection of audio books on history science psychology, and more. I. Use audible constantly I love it. I recently listened to the extraordinary third volume of Hillary men tells Wolf Hall trilogy, the Mirror And the light all thirty eight hours of it that tells you something about how crucial the APP is to my life. You can download titles from audible and listen offline anytime anywhere. That you can't decide what to listen to don't worry. You can keep your credits for up to a year and use them to binge on a whole series. If you'd like, you can listen with the audible. APP At home or on the go anytime anywhere. visit audible, dot, com slash background or text background to five zero zero dash five zero zero. Let me ask you about a concrete case where this issue is actually. Very, directly into play on which you and I disagreed now some years ago this case took place at the University of Oklahoma. and. To summarize it, there was a fraternity where two fraternity brothers were taking a group of pledges on a bus ride and then they had them sing a song that basically said first of all, there will never be an African American that they did not use that term in our fraternity and then it went on to say you could hang an African American from a tree but. They would not join the fraternity with me namely with the member of the fraternity. So the song effectively insisted that there would be no blacks in their fraternity. It also threatened violence in at least in some way by invoking lynching and when this story got out David Baron, who is in the President University of Oklahoma very quickly and sanctioned the students I believe they were actually expelled. And as I recall it, your view was that since the University of Oklahoma is bound by the First Amendment the president had actually infringed on the free speech rights of the fraternity brothers was that in fact your view and if so do you want to say a few words about why? Yeah that daddy was viewed continues to you I think it was a clear first amendment violation. I obviously have no sympathy for the particular speech they engaged in, but we should ask ourselves what would be the rule under which the university is allowed to expel students for that kind of speech note, it's not even like traditional campus speech goes which were limited to speech on campus this speech off campus. This was a speech being restricted precisely because of the viewpoints that it was expressing. And if the argument is well, campus speech expressing certain views is going to have on campus effects that strove a vast range of off campus speech. That means that if I take it to a student were to go to a Rally for Irate Sister Organization or an organization that's perceived as racist. Then presumably, there'd be a similar outcry and it would be similarly justified for. Them to be expelled for that will match, try out the alternative you well. So tell me know what rule you would propose under which this speech would be restrictable but other speech would not be and why you think that rule sound. But also this politically defensible is something that's going to actually be maintained as opposed to just leading to more and more calls for restriction. My view would be that a on a university campus be there should be rules as indeed are required by federal law that protect against racial discrimination that see a fraternity is a university sanctioned or. That D- What was wrong here was conduct the conduct was discrimination discrimination in association with the membership. In this particular fraternity, they weren't making a decision on membership in that moment. But through the song, they were making it extremely clear that they're fraternity campus organization was originally discriminatory one. I would add to this that there was also a threat of violence. I don't know how serious it was but nevertheless, there was a threat of violence associated with this and that under these circumstances where what's being punished the conduct even if that conduct is achieved via words via singing something that this was a form of discriminatory conduct that was justifiable to regulate under these circumstances, and then the analogy that I would draw here is to the regulation of workplace sexual harassment, which as we know, can be rendered civilly unlawful. Even when it's achieved just by talking, you know someone who says to his CO worker every day you're unqualified know because you're a woman, you can't do this job. Well, a range of other discriminatory things we recognize that the government can sanction that conduct because it's in the workplace, which is a environment's a little different than being on the street even though it's done by. Words. What we're doing is we're punishing the conduct, the conduct of discrimination rather than the words themselves. That will be the argument that I would mount free speech supporters actually supporters all sorts of rights, abortion rights, gun rights, and others often worry about slippery slopes and I think that that worries very justified in a legal system such as ours that's built on precedent in analogy. Look in particular the kind of argument that you're making. So I as it happens, I have long criticized workplace harassment law I think well, private employers are entitled under the First Amendment to try to control what goes on in the workplace in the interest of morale. I, think that at least certain aspects of workplace harassment law too far in coercing employers to do that but not some of the defenses of workplace harassment law in fact, including in your own argument. So it's in the workplace, but this isn't in the workplace it isn't even. On campus, it was on a bus you saying well, somebody telling a female coworker everyday that she's unqualified. They weren't saying that to prospective black applicants to the fraternity. Indeed my understanding is that they did not expect it to leak out they did not want it to leak out it just that somebody recorded it and that's what alerted the rest of the public to it. So already, you're taking one thing which I think is already at the boundary perhaps beyond the boundary of what is acceptable under the First Amendment, which is workplace harassment law. And now see the slippage goes from the university where the theories universities for working. It's not for public discourse like college. Well, now it's getting to college it's not even on campus it's off campus and it's not speech to a person that is offensive to them at speech about a person. So well, this comes down to the conduct argument is also it seems to me a way of taking things that clearly speech with whether expelled for his what they said and trying to redefine it as conduct. The strongest argument I can see is and. I think you pointed to in some measure is that well, the university could ban exclusion based on race from a fraternity and the this was somehow a signal that they would do this. You're saying not even threatening because again, they didn't expect anybody to see but you're saying I will commit this wrong of discrimination. So maybe we can anticipatory punish not for what you've done or what did you have been proven to do but for what we are expecting you to not something we usually do under our legal system but even if that's so What's the typical penalty for students discriminating based on race or religion, or sex, or sexual orientation or whatever else in student group membership I can bet you that it's never expulsion maybe it's suspension of the group sometimes, but never expulsion, which makes it clear that they weren't just saying, well, this is a an even-handed, no discrimination and group membership law. We're just applying to you regardless of what you're saying they're doing because of what they were saying, and then the last thing is the threat. Of Violence well, again, we have to ask how do we deal with threats of violence in songs generally speaking, let's say somebody's singing cop killer and let's say the university says, Ooh, well, because we employ police officers and we heard that you were singing cop killer at a party we think praising the killing of cops Then in that case, we're going to expel you because you're creating an unsafe environment for our police officers I take it. We'd say, no, that's not restriction on conduct. That's. Obvious restriction on speech, it's restriction on speech that may be quite offensive may even be vile, but is not something that universities should be doing. That's the consequence. It seems to me of accepting the rationale that the University of Oklahoma here that all of these kinds of speech could equally be restricted using exactly the same arguments something you said your gene, will I imagine get the attention of some listeners as it got my attention and that was that you were on the edge sounded like. of saying that workplace sex harassment law as it's currently constituted where it's possible to hold someone liable for harassment just based on things. They've said, you know without any physical tutchings or other harms is of questionable constitutionality not only did I say it now I said it in one, thousand, nine, hundred, two in what was my student note that was my job talk eventually. So you've consistently held this view for more than twenty five years right ridden literally half a dozen articles on the subject so. In light of the METOO movement and the raising of consciousness around forms of workplace discrimination. As any of that had any effect on your view I mean I understand the constitutional or legal basis for it is you just expressed but what about the sort of real world consequential part of the picture has that changed or affected your mind at all? No. I've been against sexual assault I'm happy to say all my life I have been against people for example, engaging in sexual extortion I made that clear in my original article that is indeed a threat of illegal conduct and that is generally so-called quid pro quo sexual harassment sleep with me or you're fired, and that is communicated directly and deliberately to that person. I also actually argued in my article that indeed unwanted speech to a person sort of one to one speech where you're approaching somebody and insulting them or for that matter persistently asking the for dates where you're not. Trying to insult them love speech rather than hate speech but unwanted love speeches were that could indeed be restricted but speech that's merely overheard or in the Aclu Homa situation speech that was never expected to be overheard by that somebody records and then is revealed. No I. Don't think that can be properly restricted by the government using workplace harassment law. Let me give you an example. Imagine that somebody is talking at a party a guy talking to other guys saying you know I think women don't really good job here. I think that things were better when we only had men. And then somebody records that that is revealed to women in the workplace. Remember this is all set outside the workplace and then the company sued title seven for not firing somebody for his off the job sexist statements that would be outrageous to have such a lawsuit proceed and I should say to the credit of Hustler Merman harassment law I don't know of any cases that actually do involve a lawsuit preceding based on this person's off the job speech. Right. Because it's workplace harassment and the fact that it's in the workplace supposed to matter. But could you explain in your mind? What's the magic difference between discriminatory harassment that takes place directed at a person and discrimination that takes place behind their bags I mean it's in the nature of discrimination that it can take place either directly or indirectly I mean you and I can sit around and discriminate against the third person even if the person doesn't know where. Discriminating against her sorely so you discrimination but we're talking about his speech. It's like people to say, well, isn't speech this is sedition or this is communist conspiracy harassment law is based on statute that outlaws discrimination. It's not as touch without loss pitch. So that's right. But when it is applied to speech because of what the speech communicates, then it becomes a speech restriction. So the difference us what's the difference between one to one speech and speech that's Overheard speech. They may be talked about in the lunchroom and such I. Think this is a broader point that isn't that all limited to hustle and Marmon harassment law, and it has to do with the value of the speech that talking to a particular person when the person has told you stop talking to me or when it's perfectly clear, the person does not want to hear this because these are insults that's something that has very limited. First, amendment value. Because, it's not likely to persuade or enlighten. It's just likely defect whereas speech that said to the public that is overheard by some people who are offended that could have a great deal of First Amendment value. Here's an example from a non hostile environment harassment non discrimination law context. There's a case called Darrow and be post office department that upheld the statute under which any of US could say to any mailer at least any commercial mailer stop sending me unwanted male. And then they have to stop and the court said look there's no right to press even a good idea on an unwilling listener. And I think that's quite right because if something's coming into my house and coming to me, I should be entitled to say. Stop talking to me. But let's say there was a similar statue that allowed anybody who's offended by billboard or by demonstration or there was a famous case involving nudity on a drive in theater screen that they could demand that that'd be taken down. That is a much greater and I think unconstitutional restriction on speech because that interferes even the speech to willing listeners. So if a company could be sued under titled Seven because an actually unfortunately too can be I think this is the situation where hostile environment harassment laws impermissible because somebody where is wearing a cap with a confederate flag on it or because some people are talking about gender roles and who are saying, you know I think that these jobs should be for men and not for women say in the. lunchroom and they're overheard that I think is unconstitutional because Ed interferes with speech among willing listeners just because somebody who hears it is going to be offended by it and that I think is impermissible and I think that that tracks dividing lines in a lot of first amendment cases fighting words is another example. There are various rationales for restricting fighting words but one of them is they're not just likely to cause a fight but that they're said to a person who is being directly personally insulted as opposed to burning a flag. Where the court says that's protected there. The important thing is that that message may reach willing viewers as well as unwilling. You think of yourself as a free speech absolutists and I ask you that because it seems in terms of the continuum where people come down that thinking that sex harassment workplace sex Rathmell as it currently exists is unconstitutional would put you towards one end of the continuum at least well, I don't think there's ever been a free speech absolutists. Some people have called themselves speedups Lewis, justice black as an example, but even he was willing to uphold restrictions on threats on fighting words. So I don't think it's possible to be an absolutist. Threats of violence should be protected. I. Don't think that if somebody wants to speak very loudly in a residential area in the middle of the night that that should protect. But if no, one thinks those things then maybe the wrong word but you think you're at one end of on I. I do think there are people who are free speech maximalists, but I'm not even sure I'm a free speech maximalist I believe in strong protection for free speech especially when the government is restricting it based on the content of the speech I. do think there are exceptions to free speech protection I. Think they're well established and they're part of our law but that they should be read narrowly and kept within their boundaries and the. Slippery slope should be resisted. So in that respect, you know in a sense, I'm kind of free speech doctrinal list that I've read the cases I've written about the cases I think there's a good deal of wisdom and the courts cases although it's I agree with everything I think there are particular rules that we have but I don't think we should be moving towards a more speech restrictive generally speaking model than we have today. Eugene. It's a huge pleasure to talk to you about these things and it's a huge pleasure to disagree under conditions of a rational debate of a kind of ideal speech conditions that the First Amendment's at least in theory designed for and I suspect we'll keep disagreeing on lots of issues but I hope we can keep on talking about them as we disagree about them going forward. Thank you. So, much for your time very much, very kind of you to say. So have me on it as always a pleasure to talk to you, and indeed that's I. Think why we became academics right. So we could talk to other people who know the field and we can express their views and sometimes agree sometimes disagree, and we hope learn from each other and come to better view ourselves. It definitely wasn't for the faculty meetings. Thank you very much. Thank you. My conversation with Eugene raised in my mind. One of the hardest problems to me at least in the freedom of speech. And that is, should our speech be treated with the same degree of freedom in environments like the work place or the university where our values and goals maybe potentially a little bit different from the values and goals we have in the naked public square. Eugene is very concerned about slippery slope. He's worried that forms of limitation on speech that we design for the workplace or that we design for the university or for other settings where we tend to think released I tend to think that speech can rightfully be constrained might in the long run have the fact of undercutting our commitment to free speech more generally. Line drawing is one of the hardest tasks that the law faces. It's also a task that the law has doing Gaijin every day. and. Of course, there is also a slippery slope argument in the opposite, direction? If we insist on nearly absolute free speech in every context what will that mean for our societies of? To shape productive meaningful interactions and conversations in places like the workplace and the university. In any case, there's nothing like testing out one's ideas free speech against the strongest pro free speech position in order to figure out where you believe lines can appropriately be drawn. Until the next time I speak to you be careful be safe and be well. Deep background is brought to you by Pushkin Industries our producer Lydia gene caught with mastering by Jason, Gabrielle and Martina Gonzalez are showrunner Sophie mckibben. Our theme music is composed by Louis Gara-. Special. Thanks to the Pushkin Brass Malcolm God well Jacob Weisberg Yellow Bell. I'm Noah Feldman. I also write a regular column for Bloomberg opinion which you can find at Bloomberg Dot com slash Feldman. Discover Bloomberg's original slate of podcasts go to Bloomberg. Dot Com slash podcasts. And one last thing I wrote a book called the Arab winter a tragedy I would be delighted if you checked it out. If you liked what you heard today please write a review or You can always let know what you think on twitter. My handle is no are feldman. This is deep background.

harassment United States speech loss Germany Noah Feldman A. Eugene Pushkin Industries twitter professor University of Oklahoma UCLA School of law Eugene Volokh Karen Scott Jill Lepore America New York magazine Soviet Union
Mouse Vs Scorpion: A Mind-Blowing Desert Showdown

Short Wave

12:50 min | 1 year ago

Mouse Vs Scorpion: A Mind-Blowing Desert Showdown

"You're listening to shortwave from NPR. You but watching prestige nature documentaries is my idea of a wild Friday night. The scorching sun means many desert animals. Only come out at night. And there's a new one on net flicks narrated by the amazing Samarra Wiley called night on earth where a little desert mouse a tiny grasshopper. Mouse comes face to face with the Scorpion. Might want to steer clear. This is in the Sonoran desert. Well desert is in like western New Mexico and and sort of extends down into Sonora Mexico. That's Lauren esposito on the curator of Iraq -nology at the California Academy of Sciences. Scorpions Aka arachnids team score. All the way. Yeah you see where this is going. Hey Lauren how's it going up so that's ashleigh ro? I'm an assistant professor in the Biology Department at the University of Oklahoma Ashley Studies the Grasshopper Mouse. Which is I believe. This is the scientific term adorable. There's for like like Mickey Mouse. And he's big ears and these big eyes and these long whiskers a slick really innocent cute. We absolutely had to get Ashley and Lauren Together. So we could learn everything about what happens next. Many animals tried to avoid venomous scorpions. Everybody's gotta eat but not this little weather in a flash. The mouse attacks the Scorpion. He's a Scorpion. Eating specialist completely ignores like multiple stings to the face. His body can block the pain from even the most lethal Scorpion. Toxins and rips. The Scorpions tail off sting disowned each the scorpions scorpion dispatched and then howls into the sky. He claims his territory. Tiny scream yeah they how. It's pretty normal. Admit that this episode a mouse versus Scorpion showdown. That seriously will blow your mind. I'm Maddie Safai shortwave daily science podcast from NPR. A quick note here on the Mouse Scorpion. Throwdown in the Netflix show. That Scorpion is called the giant Hairy Scorpion. For the purposes of this scholarly discussion. We've substituted the Arizona Bark Scorpion also a Scorpion. This mouse likes to eat but way more intense venom and therefore cooler. All right. Yo. You ready to throwdown ready. Yes ready so as you both know. We don't want to make this feel too competitive. It's just a low key easygoing science based conversation about two mortal enemies list one corner from the dry and your sons Sonoran desert Reagan at Ashley. How much do these mice way? Anywhere between twenty to fifty grams about an ounce but it's the grasshopper how many other corner from a little dirt whole under a rock down the herd soderbergh Scorpio. So we're going to break down this fight between these two little babies and learn as much as we can about them in the next ten minutes. So I'm good. Sounds we're do it all right so Ashley this grasshopper mouse. It's going out searching for Scorpions. Is this like its primary snack? Or what is it? What is it going after out there? So in some areas that is a primary snack. Yeah grasshopper mice are distributed throughout short grass prairies and deserts in North America so in some areas. They'll eat spiders. Scorpions lizards small birds. They will eat other my birds. They're small birds. Birds was the one that cut. It's hard to imagine the sign a little mouse eating bird. Will they do? Actually if you like you can't house two males together. The males are really aggressive so they will kill each other. Yeah to each other when they kill each other they do they eat the brain they did expose the brain out. They know that that's brain. Yeah I understand that podcasting is a medium but I would strongly suggest our listeners. At this point pull up a picture of spouse because it was so cute. No it doesn't like you think you see a picture of them and you're like Oh this is a really adorable mouths and then you learn. They kill each other and eat their brains out there. Do not be fooled. Don't be okay. Okay so learn when the battle starts. It's possible that the Scorpion is ready with like a particular kind of venom for this situation. I didn't know that they had different types of venom. Yea well so actually like one. Single Individual Scorpion can produce up to two hundred unique compounds in its cocktail. Venom and We have some preliminary evidence suggesting that they're able to express different parts of that cocktail in different circumstances. So if they're trying to defend themselves they might be using the more expensive Peptides that cause pain or if they're trying to capture some pray they might be using some of the the less like metabolic costly things like salts and enzymes that is all they really need to break down a cricket so cool so you know these scorpions. Don't get enough credit out here. They're making different types of venom. Yeah when you think about it. The Scorpions have really small. And when they're trying to subdue their prey they just need to paralyse it really quickly so it can't get away but when they're trying to defend themselves from their predators with they really want to do is deliver a stinging blow that just stuns the Predator and gets them dropped so they can escape and I think what ash is referring to. Is this idea this hypothesis that people have proposed called the venom conservation hypothesis which is basically says like if your if your body to produce things and those things cost you energy to produce you. WanNa use the least amount in any given circumstance so you don't WanNa waste all your energy honestly say you know what I mean. I'm not trying to do too much. I'm never going to walk that far to the gym. Okay so arguably one of the coolest parts of this is that the Scorpion gives the mouse. Theo like one two with a tale like staying is thing the right term right. So just POPs him bo-bo with some sting vibes after that. The mouse is like you're going to have to do better than that Scorpion. So Ashley what is going. Well the short answer is that the mouse has evolved resistance to the painful toxins in the venom and so they can get stung multiple times their face but the mice I they groom a little bit like it is taking their irritated by it. But then it's like the pain is just over. And then they go in. They go back in for the attack. And then they get look in their eyes and Lauren just to be clear Arizona Bark. Scorpions are not producing joke venom. It's pretty potent right. Yeah so they can produce venom that could potentially kill like a small child. It's no joke. I mean it's really serious venom. And and in some of their close relatives that in northern Mexico those species are producing Benham. That could kill an adult like a human. Yeah Yeah we should say that. It's not like it just is resistant or whatever to this potential Venom Ashley. It makes the mouse more powerful. What tell me? So when the mice gets stung Their pain pathway or the sensory neurons that make up their pain. Pathway there modified to The proteins in the venom actually block those paint signals they bind to those sensory neurons and they actually blocked the pain signals. Then they're actually less sensitive to other painful stimuli after they've been stung it's like it's like the venom becomes an analgesic for them. It becomes a pain. Blocker is I mean Lauren. That's pretty cool. You gotTA give that up. I know I know you're there but it's pretty team Scorpion. But it's pretty cool like bike and take something that's supposed to be like extremely painful and turn it into something that makes me not feel any pain anymore. It'd be Pretty Up Okay so so Warren. You've described this to me as kind of like an evolutionary arms race between Scorpion Venom and the mouses ability to resist venom. Tell me about that. Well what we think is that over time. The Scorpions have evolved stronger and stronger venom. As a way to get around an escape these really super vicious terribly awful mice and so what happens is over time. The mouse gets stronger. The Scorpion gets stronger and increases for all of evolutionary history. That these two have been in contact. It's just like a tail as old as time. I think you know the really cool thing about this whole so this whole arms race stories that it's because of the work that Ashley has been doing that we actually have direct evidence that they're currently engaged in this in this evolutionary arms race Because she's found the different populations are are more or less resistance to the Scorpions that live with them are in different places so this really because actually likes to experiment with my. Scorpions that we that we know they're locked in this battle for life. We see you out here actually row. We see you out here okay. So maybe my favorite part and I know this isn't necessarily something you guys study is after the mouse kills and each this Scorpion. He throws his tiny little mouse head back points his nose at the dark desert sky and he claims his territory. I just love it. It's a very ferocious moment. If you're out there in the desert at night especially around dusk when I started emerging from their burrows you. You can't see them. I mean it's really hard to actually see went out there But you can hear them. They start howling calling to each other. And it's sort of A. Hey I'm out here. This is my territory because they do. They have large territories and they can't always see each other but they can hear each other so in this video. Obviously the mouse is out on top. But give me an idea of like. Is that most of the time the case or are the Scorpions mostly getting away? What's the situation so in the real world? We think the Scorpions get away. Some of the time. Yeah and Scorpions are amazing. In that they know when there's a Predator around They can sense it. They feel vibrations on the surface of the desert Yeah and they've got these these slits in Silla on their feet which are visited like tiny little years in their feet. They're like Viper Tori organs that pick up by breaching and so a lot of times. They can orient themselves to the direction of an oncoming Predator prey that they just feel and they know like how basically how big it is because of how much vibration it's making in which direction it's approaching from so they're like Brady I can't these are such cool critters. I don't think it was. That was great. You just said little ears on their feet. I had not thought that way. I was a struggling. Like what are those little? I know they're like because I know. Yeah these Scorpions. When we're out collecting. They know that we're after them. They're fast they're actually hard to catch her they. Actually you should just be bringing me actually come to learn when she calls them at this age. Yeah I do. I just do a whistle those Scorpion we got. I gotta take you Scorpion Hunting Ashley. Rowe and Lauren esposito Ashley and other. Scientists are still trying to better understand the painkilling abilities of the grasshopper mouse to help design. Better non addictive painkillers for humans. If you want to read about that or more on either of these magazine critters we've got you covered in the episode notes. This episode was produced by Brian. Bachmann edited by Veit. Lay and fact checked by Emily von. I'm Madison and we're back. Tomorrow it's more shortwave from NPR.

Scorpions Ashley Lauren NPR Sonoran desert Lauren esposito New Mexico Samarra Wiley Iraq assistant professor University of Oklahoma Ashley California Academy of Sciences North America Netflix Lauren esposito Ashley Sonora Mexico ashleigh ro cricket Maddie Safai
Joe Castiglione: Director of Athletics at the University of Oklahoma | #ThePlaybook 337

The Playbook

27:35 min | 4 months ago

Joe Castiglione: Director of Athletics at the University of Oklahoma | #ThePlaybook 337

"On this episode of the playbook ginned joe casting leoni. He is the ad at the university of oklahoma. And we're gonna talk about sooner. Magic we're gonna steal all the secrets of the oklahoma sooners. Join me for all of this and more on the playbook. This is entrepreneurs the playbill each week. I bring you some of the greatest athletes celebrities and entrepreneurs to talk about their personal and professional playbook to success in what made them champions on the field and in the boardroom. I'm your host david meltzer. I am humbled. Because i have one of the best athletic directors. He's the vice president of intercollegiate athletics. At oklahoma everybody knows joke castiglioni. Incredible sports executive distanced firing an empowering so many of our future professionals not just in sports. That's what makes it so interesting. Joe welcome to the playbook. Thank you dave. But i got to flip the script back on you. I kinda i'm not worthy. I don't know how i got on a list to be on your special show today but Thank you so much. I feel honored while it is an honor. And i just love the incite the playbook to success that people in your position. Have you done such a good job for so many decades. But i wanted to start off. I had mentioned previous getting on here. I love the sign behind you and not. Just tell them a magic johnson fan. I love the word magic You know. I believe in real magic. I believe in the magic of thinking of your possibilities of making improbabilities probabilities into reality. What what is the significance. Obviously in your office of having that huge magic side while it goes a couple of different ways or cuts a couple of different ways One magic is the acronym for our core value system that is the ecosystem by which all of our decisions although the Dreams that we have must pass through to reach the level that we want to be consistent so the magic stands for masterful a accountable j. gracious i- inclusive and you could be at a place like oklahoma without the sea in. That's competitive and literally. We have a bone deep conviction to our core values. We think big we think out of the box. We try a lot of things. We're not afraid to fail. Don't mind being a first mover sometimes and taking the arrows that go with trying something new people criticizing it but it has to flow through our core values and I always tell people. Dave that the wanna know how. We're going to make a decision where we may end up. You do a pretty good study. And our core values. You're going to land in good circle. Pretty close to the mark of how we're gonna do Make a decision around certain issues. So it's really big to us but it's a playoff of something that started many years ago around a game and you talk about your own ecosystem in a belief and a lot of times. People started using that when The oklahoma sooners found themselves in a very difficult almost impossible situation in certain competitive game and maybe even when it looked unlikely they were going to win the game but you think about the people that are in the game in the most important thing is staying in the game. You can't win the gave you. Don't stay in the game and you know you talk to players athletes of all different types. You know how much their journey means to them. Getting to where they want to be and when they get to where they want to be people say wow that you make it look so easy. But they don't ever see the trials the failures the problems that they've faced previously in the sooner magic is in fact a belief system that you haven't each other that somewhere. Somebody's going to make a play because they're trying to be the better teammate. To the others that are involved. I'm going to help you be successful. And they're all to figure out a way to make something happen even when it might be the darkest moments and generally speaking it happened. And that's when people started coining the term sooner magic. It's some hocus pocus in it's not. It's a belief system you've been trained. You prepared for that moment. You know what to do. It's executing and that's that's the crux of the magic and so interesting because it is a collective consciousness you know there are certain organizations schools teams leagues that their collective consciousness is one looking for what's missing looking for what they don't want looking at what other people have yet. The sooner magic is looking within defined outside of us what we want and that magic each one those letters accordingly to key values the not only win on the field but you know as a corporate executive myself you know. I have my key values and people ask me. How do you lead such big teams. Do such things with your career. I said because. I just teach gratitude accountability Account sorry gratitude forgiveness accountability inspiration. Know those are by four key. That's all. I teach people come to work for me. They to be sports agents marketers. You know they wanna be the gm's of teams. And i'm like. I'll teach these four things that'll get you there and i find that the sooner magic on and off the field really gets you there in one of the things in your past. That's really interesting to me as you. Were a walk on when you play college. Sports and i have found that in my career. The executives leaders that were given You know everything that had to believe in themselves when everyone was laughing at him. Scoffing making fun of boom and had to earn the applause. Have the experience to empower other people. What were the key lessons number one that you learned when you were struggling. Should i walk on or not. Because i'm someone that you know. Played football in college in. Nobody wanted him to play on college. and i know what things i went through to decide. Am i going to actually take a chance in fail and get laughed at or hurt. I one hundred and forty seven pounds. What was going through your mind when you decided to take the chance to walk on to the program. Sounds like you and i had a similar. It least start. You might have a better finish in high some kid that i walked on almost as excuse me walk off almost as fast as i walked on one was a love of the game. The chance to test myself Yes i wasn't recruited. In if you watch me play you probably wouldn't recruited me at that level either but you know it's just this the idea that you could be part of a team. I always felt like. I could contribute something and I didn't know what it would be that when i walked on at the university of maryland. One hundred forty five fifty guys out for football. I mean i might have been one fiftieth. You know whatever the last one was. I probably was that but It's the idea that you could be around the team in the team concept in the locker room. That's you know. I hear about a lot of coaches and athletes. And they'll all talk about great games Experiences you know all those kinds of things but they also talk about the locker room as a metaphor because of the the group of people that you're around the diversity the the emotions you know everybody is is at least striving for the same thing but their paths are different. And you know that you know in the locker room you're getting people to be authentic maybe vulnerable But to be truthful and you're all working together to find a way forward. I love that. And i loved that i missed that and i wanted to try at visual in level and i can only do it for one year because i was. I was one of the few that putting themselves through college. My family didn't have the money to put a put in Siblings through college. I wanted to be first generation. Graduate of my family Both my parents had some college. You know my father was drafted. Left in my mom was a registered nurse But going back a couple of generations that we didn't have any college graduates dream to be in the first college graduate. And i wanted to do it at a major university. I ended up thinking. I was going to the university of florida in gainesville. I grew up in south florida. Long story short. I ended up There's a lot back story to it. But i applied to the university of maryland and ended up getting half scholarship not for athletics. I mean that was the piece but for academics in an actually made it more affordable for me to go out of state and state which into the state the the math still. Does it make sense to me but did work And so. I went there without knowing anybody that was even another part of it that i walked into situation did not a soul and i think back to kinds of experiences definitely helped shaped me To what i am ended. It led me to a path in a career that i never expected. I did not go to college thinking about a career in sports or athletics. That was not ever on the radar screen even even the furthest end of the spectrum. But it did that here. I am and now. I'm in my twenty eight years athletic director as amazing in our juries are so similar except for one thing you know you. The rarity was to go to college being a first generation college graduate. You'll mind was the exact opposite. My family was so hyper academic. You know the fetus wasn't fully developed till after graduate school. I don't even joke around. I tell people all the time. I could graduate. Harvard summa cum laude. And nobody would blink an eye in my family but the fact that i played college football. I'm a legend. I'm like the first person to graduate college. Because that's how rare it is my family so i feel you there one of the other interesting things about College athletics in in we. We're not gonna talk about the pandemic everything your job has to go through other than this with the pandemic I i hire a lot of people. I coach a lot of transitioning athletes from the olympics. In professional athletes college athletes into their careers. And i've always said that. I'd rather hire off the character of an athlete. That was a student athlete more than a student. Although as i grew up there were certain professions. They had to be a good student. A robert smith. I worked with from ohio state. He wanted to be a doctor. Myron rolle was another client brain surgeon. He's doing fantastic up but to be honest. Those values the the academic besides the discipline part. There's not a great crossover because you played linebacker for the university of miami that you're gonna be a great scientist. There's no but i'll tell you what's happened with the pandemic especially it's accelerated the freelancer not pure space. Ready never thought that i could. You'll be seen as an icon for being an entrepreneur. When i was young if he said you were saying that you were entertainer. That meant you were waitering somewhere that you're unemployed you that's what it meant when we were young will now because the way we don't need to be well trained because we have already official intelligence. That does a lot of calculations automation. You know what we need to be. You know our leaders. We need to be communicators. We need to be competitive. We need to be consistent disciplined. We need to be strategic in you know as an athletic director. These are things that you learn on the field in. you'll learn them every day. From the time you were five and you learn mentorship you learn mentorship all these. Things are so critical in a remote environment. A freelancer environment in entrepreneurial environment. And it's actually to me raise the value of all college athletes. Because what most people always go into. You know this oklahoma. It's football and basketball. You got great baseball as well and others but the money is there would they don't realize is the pool of candidates of to change this world this country to lead us come from your sports program and others like or is that have magic values and understand. How important is it to you now to teach. These athletes will never be a pro at any anything athletic that you're getting the best education not only academically in case you wanna be a brain surgeon role but you want to change the world and make money help. People have fun. You've got the best education on both sides of the sideline. You know you talk about so many things. I could take a couple of different ways by the way. Both myron and robert have been on our campus at different times. You know. i've got no robert a little bit more. Because he's in the media but myron was here last year in spokesper team in just jaw dropping to listen to him but the the point. You know that you may speaks to maybe one of the things. We have to learn the hard way some learn at than others but somewhere along the way you have an epiphany in the piffle is around your why. Why are you doing something And you know there's there's so many reasons that people would re truly Site but from a leadership perspective until you recognize what the true role of a leader. Is you miss. The greatest part of the journey and the the true role of a leader is to serve. If you're not serving you're not leading we have these circles of influence in our lives right first of all we've gotta learn the most about ourselves no are south is wicked No ourselves we can't lead ourselves and then you look at the next which probably would be your family and then you look to the people around you when your career in a maybe you know on a national or international level or it's a community or whatever so you have these circles of influence a lot of times you do get a little bit of a pass because you might rise to get a title in sometimes people associate influence just with a title but that will wayne quickly unless people realize that you have their best interests at heart. I kinda look at my role as leader similar. If i'd use a matter for that maybe people would understand. I don't think either one of us have ever tried to climb mount everest but everybody talks about climbing mount everest the tallest mountain in the world and it is an enormous feet and we know how difficult how challenging people have lost their lives actually trying to find that but there's a lot of work that goes into getting to the base camp. That's pretty far up the mountain base camp and you still have a long way to go in so you're trying to help people get to maximize their potential. Whatever that is what is the top. Sometimes they don't even know the top. Sometimes you gotta push them to places. They never thought they could go. So i kind of think of a role as a leader. Like the sherpa. There that's a population a sherpa they are. They are the most trained leaders in the world because they have scale that mountain by themselves up and easy no coming down. The mountain is just as treacherous as going up. They don't take somebody there unless they know the road to go but their whole role is to help somebody get their. They don't need to get their for themselves. They are supposed to lead help somebody else. I think this is a metaphor. That is the greatest real. Actually that's one of the greatest honors because you're trying to find the best in everybody and try to take them where even they might not have been sure they can go When there's a lot more to it. But i think that is a role as a leader. That gets missed. It's not the title is not the position. Yes they can bring some level of influence. I no authority or power. Whichever word you like to use but the role of leader is the one that somebody help them be the best they could be. What did they do to help them. Leave their story better than they found it. And that's a beautiful thing that last thing real quick. I wanna talk about that helped me through my career As a player and later on as an executive is equality. And i think as an athletic director as a leader within a key organization in of our future. That's what i consider sooners. You're developing your the sherpur for our future There's a different sense of equality that is involved in sports since the inception when we stepped onto the field we're all equal and it's just our skill in our strategy in execution implementation and those who have played on that side of the sideline usually carry it over into their normal lives in it's been used for years in a variety of ways to prove that a tree has no branches. That one brand should not go to war against another branch in such an important role today in responsibility of yours to make sure that these future leaders draw in united us together. And you know there's always differences to be appreciated not to separate us. What are some of the things that we do at oklahoma. You know to help promote diversity to to show empower our future leaders that. Let's make sure that we're uniting. Everybody for what we appreciate in each other. Not separating over subtle differences. Well we talked about at the beginning of this Show that the i in our value system is about being inclusive and that's bigger than diversity although diversity is is You know certainly a big of that but I really think it. It starts first and foremost with Respect in that is respecting everybody for who they are and A respecting but accepting because the differences are really hard of what makes us stronger and if we get stronger together we can become nearly invincible. And that that is at the core now we can talk about all of the the education that we do. We could talk about the activities We could talk about the importance and the priority that we placed on it whether we wanted to discuss everything from a recognizing the true Demographics of the number one group of people we serve and that's our student athletes. They are the most diverse population on campus. And we have them right here in our program. Our staff Has to model the diversity of our student athletes We we have also been very authentic about our own assessment where we can be better We've made a lot of progress and we. We can point to things that are are good ways of demonstrating our commitment but the work that we need to do it is. What's in front of us. Not what a highness. And and so that commitment stays strong. Dave and then you know the constant theme that we have throughout everything that we do In the i would say that it has to be an action. Not just a stated philosophy is psycho. Whatever we're doing in today's world helping our student athletes find their voice And then be able to use their voice and used their platform properly but understand the ways to use it and and we also want them to know why you're using you can have this this ability because your student athlete at a prominent institution. You're a maybe a very successful on an a sport. That gets a lot of attention. All that's positive. But what are you gonna use your platform to improve what what's your role in activism in. What is your role in a step to demonstrate. You are all in so you hear about you. Know all the discussion around social justice and social reform and and why we're calling it a movement not a moment because this has to be an ongoing commitment. It's it's not a okay. It's the topic of the moment we do all these things. You check the box and then you said aside and go on to something else. No this is part of everything you do. Every single day and We're going to be presented with so many opportunities some small. Some may big There there's got to be the intention analogy of how replace this in order of priority. And they were making progress because some of the things that would have been more. Noticeable aren't noticeable now but there are still things that we have gotten used to and maybe unintentional But are still things that can be. You know a sign of hurt to someone else. And so there's a big part of our training to To identify what those are know. The implicit bias. Sometimes you don't even think about what you're doing is being offensive. And if you ask somebody that they would. You know vehemently deny and i we will believe him but you don't you don't realize that some things that our society has created all around us for so many years that have been accepted by some you know are hurtful to others and i think it's just the ongoing commitment to learn to subject yourself to understanding what it's like to be in the shoes of someone else And that's why. I think you hear our student. Athletes say you love me. When i'm in the uniform understand to get to know me outside of the uniform and and we i certainly Say this in the most authentic of i i have had to stop and think about some things that i never thought Even whether i was doing them or not. I mean something that somebody would tell us was. You'd never thought was hurtful. And then when they explain why it's wow you know it's it's really been i think one of my greatest life experiences and i i have family members. You know who i have watched Deal with struggles of racism and And i of course we do what we can as a family member. But you don't know what What they're facing on a day to day bas- The bias you know the the just the the way people do things and don't think about it you know and so i think sometimes it is. It's complicated in one way but some of the the steps that we can take our the easiest of any and like you said you know i. I believe that racism has been a learned behavior in we have to find ways to eradicate that end it in never let it be a learned behavior for joey appreciate all that you've done over all the years to identify more and more things that draws closer together in empower us to do more for good in to increase The expansion of what our knowledge base is. What goodness and kindness and character that sits behind you. I just most of all one at thank you so much for sharing the oklahoma sooner magic with me. I have a greater appreciation. It's difficult because you know after mid i'm a buckeye don't hate me because i still wanna come in inspire just like robert smith european staffer whoever but there is a lot behind that sooner magic and i love the fact that you live what you teach and you can see by what joy shared with us today and thank you for sharing with all of our listeners sooner magic thank you for listening if you enjoyed today's episode in any way or found any value screenshot it share it. However you like my only ask. Is you help me. Empower others to empower others to be happy.

athletics oklahoma sooners oklahoma david meltzer castiglioni football university of maryland leoni university of oklahoma Myron rolle myron Dave robert smith dave university of florida johnson Joe gainesville gm
Jeff Webb

The Michael Berry Show

16:55 min | 2 months ago

Jeff Webb

"You know what we have too little of. We have two little of positive thought too little ambition to little of optimism. Too little of what makes america great too many naysayers dragging the rest of us down drowning us in the misery and the sadness instead of toppling monuments. We should just build more. So i have consciously decided that. We're going to have more positive guests on this show. And i want to leave you or you. Leave me when you leave this show. I want you on many days to say you know what. I'm gonna do something positive. I'm gonna make a difference. I'm gonna feel better so with that in mind. Our guest is jeff webb. He is the author of american restoration. How to unshackle. The great middle-class less start with the problem you're solving is the great middle-class currently shackled. Jeff absolutely not being the middle class. has been under a salt for forty years just kind of trickling down if you will of of their capabilities. They're bared their opportunity to move forward. it's been chip away chip away chip away for nearly forty years and You know you you have a situation now. This is pre pandemic where forty percent of american workers live paycheck to paycheck anyway. Any money to same for you know a medical emergency kind of family emergency for college tuition and any of that. They have an average credit card debt unpaid and credit card balance each seven thousand dollars. They can't seem to pay off. Their kids have come home from college or the mountain student debt. Living in the basement there they they're either underemployed or can't find a job and again this is pre pandemic and think everybody understands that when the smoke clears here. Hopefully just a few months. We're gonna find that the middle class working americans have been harmed more probably than any other group You know president president trump was the first president and a couple of decades really to kind of the mantle of the middle class and some of the things that he put into place were A great start but there's a lot more that needs to be done and you know the middle class the signs and and kind of the breadth of our middle class in this country is what is set us apart economically from most of the rest of the world and a large middle class fairly affluent. Then able to drive and build the greatest economy in the history of the world but it is in jeopardy and it is teetering and it's important that we invest in things that make the middle class stronger. What what caused you to get interested in this. What what what sparked your interest in the middle class. I i come from the working class. But i think that i've been watching talking on air about Documentary just watch called the pursuit and it talks about how the working class how india has created a working class and they have prospered relatively speaking and they have developed a burgeoning middle class that they never had throughout indian history all because of capitalism so i'm fascinated by this sort of backbone of the society being the middle class. What got you concerned about this. Well i grew up very much in a middle class. family went to public schools You know quitting public university university of oklahoma and You know it was lucky enough to start a business. When i was twenty four years old. A first world headquarters was my apartment and Was able to build it up to be you know. I pretty significant company And then employed nearly eight thousand people had operations in every you stayed. I left that company and at the end of december but over over that period of time. Again i was very very fortunate to achieve a certain level of financial success and built. What i think was a was a great organization and as i began to start transitioning from having built that company knowing when to go into something else was part of my life. I've always been very interested in politics. and majored in political science in college but was too busy building a business to really get involved and have a a lot of young people that worked my company that i was friends with and was able to spend your time with and listen you know through the years to some of the challenges that their their families face and so as i begin to decide to begin to try. This is what i would do in politics. This whole concept of the middle class. And what did admit to me and and be growing up in a middle class but living society where i had a chance to really do something to build something and involved so many other people create jobs is really concerned that that that opportunity slipping away that That it's much harder to start a company now. It's much harder to build a business with brexit regulations and taxes and and a couple of getting factors so Decided that was gonna be you know that was going to be what i wanted to sink my teeth in. And that was going to be the calls that i wanted to take up because I can relate to it with my own experience. But also because i think it's very important for our country general donald trump wrought working-class and middle-class americans back in to the republican party. Many of them had either left And become disillusioned walked away from politics and some of them had slid toward democrat politics over the years. And i think bill clinton did a lot for their brand in building with the middle class. A bigger base. Josh hawley wrote a piece a few days ago. The senator from missouri about how the republican party's future cannot be the country club party that has been the the future of the party has to be working in middle class. Americans that's where the roots are and and trump was really the example for how to get there and that seems to be something that you are paying tribute to an in doffing your hat to. Yeah that's exactly right and Interesting that you talked about the bill clinton and The the democrat brand when he did for it and then we attracted so many people that are kinda right there on my line and I think i agree with senator. Holly republican brand the old kind of country. Club republican optics. If you will that that if it's not get it's a life support and you're right that president trump attracted people to move back into to to the other side and back into the republican party and and With real energy by the way he had a lot of people who who felt displaced or ignored and He gave them a voice especially with the kind of policies That he did. He advocated and the things we got pass. So i i think i think senator holly is white it's interesting to see what the whole impeachment processes everything kind of side tracked and and if this point but i think when we misses all over those people who are thinking that The the mo the more populous part of the party is going away that this was just a flash in the pan. We're going back to where we were are sadly mistaken. There is no energy there where the where they came. There is no energy justice with our guest is jeff webb. The book is american restoration to unshackle the great middle class. And hey mommy's you're going to be very interested in what business jeff comes from all you girls out there. This next segment is for you. Were talking to jeff webb. He is the author of american restoration. How to unshackle the great middle class. He has credibility when talking about business and therefore politics because of his immense success the industry from which he hails. You might be surprised by. This is what. I call a mommy segment. And i consciously do more and more of these because i think that women especially women who raise children and our divas of the home whether you work outside the home or not are not sufficiently engaged in our political process because too few people have not gone out of their way to engage them to talk about mom to talk to mommy's about things like school and healthcare and our economy and the things that matter to the people who are keeping the families together so that in mind jeff you come from the cheerleading industry and i guess y'all were the biggest the biggest boys. Y'all were the biggest folks in the cheerleading industry. Right talk a little bit about your background. Well i I was yelling at the university of oklahoma. And when i graduated i decided to start a company that would take what had been a kind of a a student leadership position. Frankly for for for decades and try to modernize the concept was and athleticism entertainment to To cheerleading and raise a little money from friends and family wasn't very much started. The company ran out of my apartment for several years and hired college your leaders to To help me train. High school and college cheerleaders and mostly in the southern united states about how to incorporate kind of new concepts of have with all the acrobatics and so on and the the the concept took off and We were able to eventually. We could create kind of the concept of a cheerleading competition. What people have seen on. Espn for years and years. Just kind of our idea. And that we use that to actually showcase the kind of the new style that we developed and We were we hooked up with espn and the and it's early days and our early days and the exposure we got on espn helped drag the company along and and expanded nationally. We added uniforms and As well and i built a pretty significant Pretty significant company. So when i when i i left the practice of law in the mid nineties to start a real estate company and i located my real estate company in an area of houston known as rice village which is kind of booty kyw end of retail area. Because my theory was women make the decision to buy or sell a home and women. When they're shopping are gonna feel comfortable with so. That's where i was and there was a retail shop next door to me call leaping leotards and it was a guy who kind of cornered the industry in supplies for girls cheerleading and dance and all that and he had a retail location. For what didn't seem to me to be a retail business because he mostly went to the schools. When i saw how much business he was doing in that industry. It's one of those things that nobody thinks about holy smokes. I was blown away but it also seems to me that women's are girls activities have exploded in popularity money spent sponsorships and all that in the last few decades and that cheerleading came out of nowhere at the moment they declared cheerleading a competitive sport. I knew that somebody's got some influence in. Somebody's looking to make some money. How did that happen. Well you know again here. I think that Again my whole concept was to to make sure winning athletic and entertaining and all sports frankly has moved in that direction but we did not start out As our objective to make a lot of money. I mean we were very fortunate that were very successful financially while the way was really just a passion for what we were doing and what you're what he could represent and the leadership that it provided in the schools in the communities and we just focused on trying to build something great and to have a great organization So the the the the the the whites really begin to look visually athletically from an entertainment standpoint creatine explosion and participation across the country. And you know when when as you know when when people have something that their kids are involved then that the kids not only joy but the parents feel like is good for their kids. Whether it's their emotional development their physical development the friends there around on the teams. The parents support that and they're going to support it and try to make it possible for those kids do everything they can in that scored to be successful and to have it be a good experience for them. It's incredible what has happened there. You know when when you look at the sea change in culture we went from. Everybody smoked to very few people smoked. I mean you look at how how lives change. We didn't have phones. Nobody had a phone that they walked around with and then everyone had a phone that they walked around with this whole cheerleading industry is just absolutely exploded. I don't have girls. So i don't see it first hand. Although my kids have friends that are in cheerleading. My boys do but for all my my buddies that have daughters. that's what they do. They go to cheer camps. They go to cheer events and go to cheer competitions. Which i guess was good for you. Well yeah of course it was and it's it's it's very gratifying to think that our gender sand that people care that much about it and believe in it enough you know to spend their hard earned money on it with their kids But you know what. We've always tried to do what i kind of guiding star has been. We are going to create incredibly positive. Potentially life changing experiences for kids. Who participate in what we do whether it's a cap whether it's a competition whether it's what they really get experience at home with their schools aren't there jim. We want it to be something that really contributes positively to live so You know the fact that there are people willing to spend the on money that it's really just affirmation that maybe we were doing a few things right. It's it's an interesting perspective to come from when you're now. Instead of taking a micro approach to an industry where you folks have absolutely dominated. The founder of the universal cheerleading association. Varsity brands the international cheer union the world governing body of the sport. It's interesting that you've gone from that to now the broader subject of how do we solve the macro problem of of this middle class. It's what i like about that is. You're in tune in touch with an industry that kind of gets more into the household level. It gets more into the probably more moms than dad's i think that's a very interesting perspective to bring to the table here. Well thank you. Thank you I wish i could say was the it was. We had that whole concept in mind when we started it. But as i say we were just trying to do something good. Something was fun. Something made a difference but You know we we really tried to. I mean look they're detractors from everything but we've We've tried to to take the sport in the direction where where it was positive where it provided opportunities for people to grow and it created a benefit to the to the local school and community to put this into perspective folks bain capital private equity bought varsity brands which was doing over one point. Eight billion a year. They bought varsity brands for two point. Eight billion in two thousand eighteen over eight thousand full time employees. Real stuff jeff. I wish we had more time. But we don't come back again. American restoration how to unshackle the great middle class. Jeff webb thank you by taking like.

Jeff webb republican party public university university o Josh hawley country club party president trump bill clinton senator holly trump america rice village jeff donald trump Jeff espn Holly university of oklahoma india
#099  Fredrick Lee (Flee): Security Should Be Lovable

Cyber Security Interviews

1:04:21 hr | 8 months ago

#099 Fredrick Lee (Flee): Security Should Be Lovable

"Douglas Brush in you're listening to cybersecurity interviews. cybersecurity interviews is the weekly podcast dedicated to digging into the mind of the influencers thought leaders in individuals who shape the cybersecurity. Industry. I discover what motivates them explore their journey cybersecurity and discuss what they think the industry's going. The show let's listeners learn from the experts stories and hear their opinions on what works and doesn't in cybersecurity. Hello and welcome episode ninety nine of Cybersecurity interviews. In this episode, we're speaking Frederick leap lease chief Security Officer Gusta where he leads information physical security strategies including consumer protection, compliance governance, and risk before Gusto flea spent more than fifteen years leading global information security and privacy efforts at large financial services, companies, and technology startups most recently at square head of information security, he previously held senior security and privacy. Roles, Bank of America net sweet until Lee was born and raised in Mississippi and holds a bachelor's degree in computer engineering from the University of Oklahoma. In this episode, we discussed Kobe response three-dimensional communications. Security is an enabler integrating security and engineering teams the information security skill shorts, diversity inclusion, cybersecurity, his early mentors in so much more I. Hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did thanks for listening. Thanks for joining me cybersecurity interviews. How are you today? I'm doing well Doug had been hanging in there. How are you surviving the pandemic these days? I'm maintaining I'm actually pretty optimistic. You Know I. Set up here at home like probably like a lot of other nerds already had like a bunch of work from home equipment like Nice desk because obviously gotta have at least some infrastructure for gaming. At a minimum zoo? It's been going pretty well I'm fortunate that I live in a city in a state has actually been taken Kobe very seriously. So I, feel. Safe within reason, right. Anything else they just think. Cyber Security podcast. I think that we're doing really good job of working on harm reduction in focusing in loudly maybe better understand or risk is and how to actually manage risk. So a executive, an interesting I think experiment in. Raising and elevating the idea of risk management in a more broad sense to the population and The population respond when we actually you know try to give them information around the risk give them some potential mitigation for there is but then give them the freedom to make choices about whether or not they choose to use that mitigation and then ultimate what the impact of that is Super Wonky. But I do view a lot of things in life through like that traditional security slash hacker Lanza. Pretty well pretty excited. At a minimum Taco bell now does a delivery said, it s just like a boon for everybody except for those trying to watch weight and I know that's it's funny apt having not been on the road. It's I've. I thought I ate more when I was traveling more and seems to be not the case off it's just stress eating. But if you talk about it in terms of risk and really it's IT'S The unsexy word for what we do I've said a couple of times on the podcast that if we had the RSA Risk Management Conference, nobody would go twitter black hat was all about risk we we liked the word cyber I use in the podcast. It's a catchy word but the reality is it comes down risk management and I. It's I've been drawing a lot of these parallels and looking at crisis response in general you know from lot of incident response I've done planning and execution to say Gosh. You know here's how I might have done things differently certainly can ascend Monday morning quarterback, a lot of response efforts but. Do you. Do you fall into that kind of mental mindset to saying well? Here's how I would measure the risk but also how we calculate the response given flipping all these different levers. It I, do look at a that angle one of the things that I added in and maybe you're already considering this in your mental model is how risk impacts actual human's right in? How does risk? How that I can turpitude by actual humans at an engine that could we like put him up like a little security nerd hats, etc. We're in our corporations with our you know silly season and all that other nonsense. oftentimes, we think of risk just purely from a dollar standpoint or Hayes they're going to be a breach or hey, is going to be all these other tragic things but I think oftentimes actually the most common. Scenario we always forget about how risk is interpreted by humans and how humans actually make decisions around risk data, and how do we actually give them risk data in a good way and in a meaningful way. At least one when I look at what's going on with the current pandemic people are making all kinds of different decisions in you. We want to assume that people are making decisions based on the information that they have. So including whatever their their personal risk is the personal profiles on their economic needs like do they need to go to work I do do they feel like they don't go to work they're gonNA lose out on something longer term a, and then their ability to understand how that risk has been communicated to them and how the mitigations of also been communicated to. Like when we think about couvert in particular of. Some of the initial responses at least here in the US. When I read in the media people's reactions to it. Now, it does sound like we didn't communicate that well to people right and I I could have definitely done a better job of that in my personal circles. Remind you know businesses like, Hey, what's Kobe actually really mean right like How impactful could that be to you? How much do we know about this risk in these? Also just the common security things we think of in our day to day jobs. How do I keep thinking about the mitigations like I think one of the things that is obviously top of mind for a lot of people is a the controversy that in my opinion should not be a controversy around wearing masks a, but there probably were some things that led to people making a suboptimal choices around mass learn. So for example, when we go back and reflect on some of the initial guidance that was given people misinterpreted, you know in ninety five mask and actually do like. Really. Really intense filtering versus cloth masks which are really meant to be you know me protecting you from myself, right so like the ninety five mass meant to be a mitigation. For me as an individual who may be exposed to Kobe, but the cloth masks and the guys are actually getting now are mitigations that I would be wearing to prevent us from catching co bit for me. I. Think it's to so many parallels in the security world about Kayla were we have security practitioners may give people guidance and not meet them where they are right. So so with the Kobe confusion, people just aren't masks they didn't actually here in ninety five versus cloth I heard mask and so since a lot of people working saying, Hey, don't you know? You don't You know still all the massacre don't hoard mass excetera. They didn't realize that e profession those who don't hoard in ninety, five bass and in they they interpreted that to me like, oh, over masks aren't really valid and then later on these games later, the Kate we want everybody actually where Masters Locker Fusion there i. Pretty, pretty, long analogy. Cabin point at which is some of the things that go security where we will tell people, Hey, used this mitigation or don't use it mitigation you're not vulnerable to this thing or you're not gonNa that or maybe you are vulnerable to this and all you can always lead to confusion and that confusion can lead to either a hesitancy to adopt mitigation or it can lead to a delay of adopting mitigation and we've done this so many times in the world of security where we've gotten it wrong or probably worthwhile for us to share those learnings. But with the broader like ecosystem of those people who are just their job just understanding managing risk I. Love like just. kind of like you said, Monday Monday morning quarterbacking Kobe other type events I think Kobe is a little bit easier for me to Monday, morning quarterback on solly in that camp of not dunking on other security teams because they're in the same you know in the same place that I am in I just assume they're all making choices So that's gotTa look at this pandemic. Are there things be learning from that? Are there things that we could do better that you share some of the practices that have been successful inside of securities last cybersecurity? ETC Yeah. It's funny. You know you can't help but think of passwords as a thing like that. You know with mass. told me to wear masks or don't wear masks and we'll save password. You said do long passwords. Now you're saying don't use long passwords in. Don't you just tell me what to do. It almost comes to that you know when you look at an organizational population whether it's. People with inside a company or a constituency of country they look to their leaders for some kind of guidance to say, here's the the. The Red Yellow Green Tea tell me which the options are and I'll kind of make but I think to your point is we haven't communicated a lot of that. You know organizationally reflect on that as a see. So how do you try to have that conversations both up and down I think that's a unique. Kind of. A spot that looks as see so ends up is you have to talk up down laterally. You have to be very kind of three dimensional in your communications. Hundreds, zero degree in this, you jumped ahead evacuated immediately thinking when you're talking to like I think one of the things is similar to what's GonNa Kobe also similar to the role of C.. So similar row security teams is the importance of effective communication. Right. because at the end of the day, my job is really trying to explain risk to people trying to explain options about how they gonNA keep manage that risk and trying to give them as much insight into the entire ecosystem surrounding that risk of my approach towards dead is really embracing this idea of trying to meet people where they are right. So so the way that I communicate to engineers very different than. The way that I can't communicate to people in the rest of the exact staff our head of marketing are our you know our head of employee engagement You know our even our CEO my approached or stopping all those individuals is different than would it be for a security engineer? Am I approach a TACO security engineer needs to be different than what it is talking to a devops engineer or just a regular software engineer. We have to make sure that our messages really are tuned to the audience. Now, that sounds super super basic but it's easy for us in the security world to just nerd out and say, hey, why don't you actually understand this thing I want to talk to you about an oracle attack or something like that You know those things which something you not less related, and now a lost the audience, right? Like my head of of legal cares about encryption but my head of legal is not a deep crypto nerd is I need to make sure that what I'm explaining is the context of the problem and why this particular risk is important for the head of legal attention to on the same thing with the CEO at one of the things that that ACA talk about quite a bit a while ago. Actually I like this concept of security practitioners, sexiest people in general. Learning about love languages would you not I borrowed this from book? About relationships. As silly as it sound because most people came, we're all nerds nobody in our nerd world care about relationships or how do we get along all? It's all Zeros and ones it turns out that the Zeros and ones the actual technical who is probably the easiest stuff Is the how do we convince people how key you know talk to them in a language that they understand and resonates with them? At the seasonal level is a skilled. Master and I think it can make or break a C.. So I have no illusions about me being perfect at it. I still have a lot of work that she d there myself and it's a journey I. Think More Morris actually learn from some see Soza, just phenomenal at it and others you know not not quite so much but I think all of us have an area. that. We actually improve their with Garcia really making risk understandable because we can't make the wrist understandable to the audience. Then they're not gonNA, actually do the accident that you would want and it could just lead to overall frustration or tons of security people that are frustrated in their lives because I'm giving you really really good advice are really wanted to do this thing I want you. To make this, change the network or want you to fix this piece of Code Hey I want you to keep patch server but without all the context and without the language that the recipient can actually understand you're always going to run into friction. You're always gonNA run into roadblocks and you're always going to be in this position where people will ultimately end up putting on their metaphorical. Mask too late So it is an interesting problem an it's still a lot of room for us to actually work on that. You just across the industry not just see says, but everybody is out of security. Probably you know everybody inside of Tech. Yeah I think we kind of fall to are we kind of go to comfortable corners pretty quickly when it comes to technology because That I can control I, would say the other. People Computers Don't get hacked people get hacked. There's usually some human element that fails eventually where somebody something happened in. There was a lack of communication discussing risk or something. There's a human element is ultimately the cause of most incidents and breaches. Oh, you know what I'm GonNa agree disagree with the also love that. A bit because. I'm also not a fan of dunking on people because I maybe this is just being way too optimistic. I. You know I definitely drank a lot of the the Oh kool-aid. Would regards to this idea that that software is such a powerful mechanism and if we bill saw her well, then we can start making some of these human like gaps, failures or mistakes less less less obvious in less frequent. So like you know a good example, that's like you mentioned passwords is is example. Passwords. Having people pick good passwords has all been a challenge but once we started introducing password managers educating people on that making it more approachable making an easier than people actually filled in that gap I would argue to say that, yes, people are part. Of the Comeback Chain Garcia security where things can succeed or fail. But I I think the bigger failure there is where we've missed the mark from a technology standpoint One of the things that we talk a lot about it Gusto is this controversy making things lovable Gusto because of our of our our our customer base a lot of our customer base is looking or small medium sized businesses and when you're a small business you have. So many other things that you focus on security probably is something you care about, but there's nothing you can be a deep expert in. So we have to make sure that security controls and mechanisms that Richie build are easy to use and easy to adopt by the end user. So you know you kind of really embraced his idea of making security lovable making it something that's really really focused on not only the security control, but the security experience. We're GONNA, kiss shift, a, lot of those gaps. Some of those failures that doesn't mean we can you know roll up all things but I think there's still a lot of room for us as technologist to improve their an not instead of just telling people, Hey, do x y and Z. Well, let's make x. y. and Z. either the default behavior or the easiest behavior the easiest choice of it, and that's where I may disagree with you there like Wigan to tons of stuff around education still to do more that we want more and more people to. Be More proactive with regards to security but I think we as practitioners also need to avoid the common pitfall at least an obscene of assume that people don't care about security. Everybody cares about security everybody cares about privacy is really about where on their like spectrum of being the have to care for that security and Privacy Zach you fall in in also with the Garcia, like how do these things that he impact them on a day-to-day basis is actually usable right? So you think about your car car has an air bag. Your car has antilock brakes antilock brakes a bitter example. You know you learn how to be the same activity. The antilock brakes provides for you in the of integrating slippage terrain is is unsure etc but. We found it as just better to make technology better. You don't make I don't need to go to yearly training on how my seat belts, airbags, ABS works. It just works and that controls in place, right? Yes. Yes and people wear seatbelts because they don't want to die right? Like you know look I'm a huge snowboarder I wear a helmet because when. I, smacked a tree. I don't want to die like what I'm on my my motorcycle I, wear a helmet because I don't want to die. You know those things but it's all approachable. It is all easy and it doesn't take a lot for me to actually do it and I think sometimes we forget did inside of security about what happens when We introduced friction to improve security controls at in what that actual end user experiences There's so many things that I think we as an energy can focus on more to improve the end user experience with regards to security, and that's both for those people that I can make you like products that are consumer facing, but also for things built internally. Right? So. If you're a security team, what are you doing to make these lovable golden paths for the Development Team? So that if you're worried about certain behavior will just make that behavior. You know really really easy right make make the good behaviors simple that you developers want to do that instead of doing anything else because it's like almost like the obvious choice. Yeah it's funny I. was I was helping design a program couple of years ago and I thought. I was working with the IT team leadership I said I have to make this almost uninhabitable innocent for me. I didn't mean in a malicious way but were I couldn't get frustrated and go around the control. So every time I would try to put in something. How would I immediately become annoyed by this and then try to circumvent that control I feel like we design a lot of programs with that is like Oh gosh. Security Control, which becomes a productivity blocker. I guess how do you start steering that conversation organizationally both of users and leadership to say, Hey, look let's things that are friction lists are like maybe kind of find that holy grail of we can have either maybe a productivity gain or at least less friction with the desire risk reduction. Yes I I love one of the things that you mentioned there just because our approach here at Gusto really is about making sure that the security team is an ebeling function right? So that the security team is there to AKI help accelerate teams I I ki- you know remove roadblocks I said you remove danger from the road right let's let's stick with these like Car Analogy. No because we were talking about a all these various things, Yankee, WanNa have in your car like you see builds or safety like maybe a good example in your car modern cars. Now, a lot of them have head lice just come on automatically, right? Okay. You're going to dark area put on your headlights they're we're in we'll be automatically 'cause we we can detect when you know the amount of light of the lumens. Outside and the ecosystem reduced, we need increased Luma's being protected from the car a zoo desiccated good analogy. The conifer protest security teams can and should have at least in my opinion that could be more successful and actually makes some of the things that we then introduce later more tolerable one kicking mentioned is something that I think more security teams also need to examine, which is what is friction and when should friction. I'm going to mutilate the English language. If you bear with me disliking. In part of that is. A friction probably should be considered a dirty word and those probably a lot of security people that aren't excited to hear that that mean I. Don't believe that there should be additional security controls introduced. It's just that we should be examining which things were introducing are causing friction in which things we introduce from a control standpoint technology standpoint or actually introducing intention nationality. Of, information pitch analogy is a good thing. We want people to make intentional choices. In those areas where K something might be potentially scary those kind of institutions. Hey. Take a pause, take a breath. Look at this action that you're wanting to perform. Are you sure you actually want to do it? In those are good things to happen out of security, right? So Yankee think about Simple one that's accu relevant to a lot of people security. Two factor authentication right it definitely the great control, but it also does a great job and it can be a useful tool to introduce intention allergy I. I WANNA make a change to this data set. Okay. We'll hear them a little dual push that comes because I am making a modification to sensitive data, right for example, and now going to do push not dual push isn't meant there to be friction is just to make sure that what you're doing is intentional There are other areas that I think would be patterns of A. Friction that isn't good right. So when we were giving everybody advice like, Hey, these extraordinarily long password, the interchange, those passwords, every ninety days bell accu mostly just introducing friction and it wasn't useful friction because as you kind of alluded towards people gain the system they worked around it. You've probably have seen users that, yeah, the pick one password, and then what they do Zillow k ninety days if it okay I'm just gonNA a one at the end of my password up another ninety days is hit Oklahoma attitude at the end of my password. ETC ET. is those useful for security teams to be really really really aware. Of the cost those security controls from a productivity standpoint from end user standpoint that doesn't mean to actually get rid of controls but at a minimum, make sure that we're being intentional around those controls and that controls are meant to essentially increase intention behind sensitive actions. Yeah. I think that's I kind of agree that friction has become a bit of a dirty word where we. Immediately kind of going with this negative mindset and it's probably not helpful and. Look we're. In security leadership we it's. Kind of say we kind of get it from all angles sometimes and one of going back to what I was thinking about what some of the covert responses whereas watching Dr Cheese. Testimony. Last week and people were you said this and what are you recommending and I thought he did a great job and kind of that. Trusted Adviser Role of saying, look my job is to sit there and identified the risk. It's up to you guys to make the choices and I said here's the different things that you can do. I never said close this openness said these are the best courses of actions and then leadership has to make it. I've seen that parallel also happened with ceases before and folks in insecurity leadership where they have to kind of fall on the grenade and you know it's always a delicate balance to identify risk in the organization and push it up. Guy I think there's a huge communication aspect but have how Have you found that I guess how's Your Journey Ben on that of say hey, look I'm I'm I'm here just to kind of be the be now the shed some light on it with dark situation, but truly for the leadership to accept risk. In I love that because our approach in a second one of the healthier approaches in general four internal security teams is for the security team. It'd be trusted adviser I think when security works well or at least when I see those working well is that they are helping a company understand risk and manage that risk on the understanding part is really about like, Hey, let's make as much risk as possible as visible as possible and give as much context around that risk is possible as well. On the managing of risk aspect that's where like it as a so security practitioner, our job then is to give people. I in the explain like, Hey, here, various different solutions and suggestions that may work in your context with the limited amount of context that you can get it as a security practitioner, and one of the most important things we also do as a security practitioners also hold teams accountable for managing their risk and and to push back on the when they want to offload that risk on it security in an unhealthy way and what I mean. But unhealthy way is when teams do and this is probably a fairly standard practice even now but lot of security teams like this role of security as a quote approver on there definitely are time for security should be approving. Things but the majority of time security should be advising right in saying like, Hey, give me the circumstances and what I understand about your product. What understand about what we're trying to do or what run understanding, what we're trying to build inside the data center. These are the concerns that I would pay attention to, and these are some suggestions about ways he mitigate those concerns but ultimately, the choice needs to be with the person that has the most context and who's also going to be responsible for doing the work like the these silly lie that we tell ourselves and security is like Oh. Yeah. I reviewed that code base as I know that it saved housing production. Bet May have been true like a decade ago more than likely to definitely like twenty twenty five years ago. When people when software just slower. But now people do multiple releases a day some of their during multiple releases an hour. So there's no way of security team can honestly tell you that they know that the Bingo they reviewed is exactly the being in production. The product team however knows exactly what's in production, and if you do a good job explaining to them what their risk are and some of their options around that I've found that's been really really healthy for them that he owned that risk into own the success or failure actually associated along with that that doesn't mean that security just completely throws his hands up 'cause we should still be a comeback bay a you know for like Rebecca worry that firewall has actor car to still like you protect people is still doing actually gets too dramatic help deal with incidents point Al when there are risks conflicts and what I mean by risk conflicts is okay. Maybe somebody who building a product. And their product team a and they're making some risk choices. Wait a second this product team be who's also making some choices and it turns out that those two things combined actually conflict and we can't initially have both because it introduces risk in a holistic way over systemic way across the entire company that may be needed. One of those teams he fully understands and I, think it's also one of the key areas that that security extremely useful is elevating those of scenarios and helping to be a mediator A. Maybe A, you know a someone who can help bridge that gap there and bring everybody along actually just. Because of what team decided, you know what team be, we can't make the same choices essentially look for different solution. So sounds a lot of it is kind of building that culture of trust. or so how how have you been successful in? The cliche to say a little bit but kind of reaching across the aisle a little bit. I think part of it is. Stubbornness to some extent, an I'll explain the stubbornness here not stubborn with the Garth t the advice that we give to people but stubborn when people ask us to approve something. Like every time that comes up, we always have the conversation like, Hey, we're not here to approve this. This actually is your choice I and as a product team, we're going to give you a advise and we're going to give you some options. We will also help build code and enright things. He help make your products even more secure, but this is still your choice in you are now responsible for what happens if this goes wrong and it's been my experience that when people understand that they are also responsible for the consequences of bad decisions, they generally make different decisions. and. The analogy of us for that is the explanation of you know when you're a college student. At least for me being a college student, I remember when I got a copy of quicken. Yes. I'm dating myself for those that have never had. Bought Software in the store that gotta they a. but like buying quicken seeing my money win made me actually make different choices like, Oh, you know what? Instead of you know having pizza every Friday. If I have pizza only one Friday a month it means I can also go to the movies or I can you know by this new video game etc in that's one of the more powerful than you can actually do for teams is actually show them really what the risk are in, make it obvious to them and be persistent that they need to own their choices and that they can't offload that choice onto security. It but also explained to them why and when you give them the consciousness. Okay, look. Yes, you do. But I don't have all the context me security practitioner. I don't have all the context about park trying to build I. Don't know your customers nearly as well as you do you as a product. Manager, or a engineering manager you know way more about the problem than ID's I'll be doing a disservice if I told you that I can give you one hundred percent. The right answer that is not always satisfactory to people. For. Obvious reasons because you know we as an industry insecurity have probably. Unfortunately, trained people that, oh, we are the enforcers, worthy regulators, and it's like Oh there's only one way to do things and security is going to tell you exactly the way to do it and when they get this new approach at which I personally refreshing. and. Stress Reducing it does probably trip up a little bit but I've found that when people honestly see that you're being genuine and they know that you're still there he helped them, they really embrace it and I found it s last long lasting effects and it turns people into more security practices in the May have been otherwise because now they really do. Is like Oh. Yeah. I should be thinking about these risks I should be worried about what happens if there is a data loss I, should be worried if my customers have you know have their passwords stolen those kind of things they really shift the mindset ultimately to product leaders also making better security decisions. It part of that too is reading an article that was out there that you've taken kind of a something unique only because it should happen should be less unique let's say but it is to to common I would say we're security teams end up on a different floor in a different area they're not seen felt or or talk of a culture, and where you've really kind of made a change with that say, Hey, we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA put security teams part of the team before team there's going to put the players on the field. talked me a little bit how how Kinda came to that. Choice in how well it's worked. I was actually working really well, it may be. To well. It turns out engineers love security. We have fascinating problems to work on and when they see the security team is an engineering team they're. The smiles just out on their faces like you're one of us like, yes, we're one of you. I've been engineered his died of love writing code like that's how most of the you know quote unquote hackers or whatever want to WanNa callers of got into this energy W love computers right? We love the technology love exploring this basin we like building cool things. In that has been a major ship, but also one of the big things is that. It's necessary or at least it's necessary in certain in certain a company cultures and what I mean with that it's like in particular here in Silicon Valley a lot of our companies are engineering I. write at their DNA is that their founders were riding to centers like Augusta like all of the founders are all engineers right? Like they're still code from boundaries in the code base and they understand that they built their their company and team around people that want to make delightful products ton defend them engineers. In Zoo when you are in cotton environment. Engineers need to trust you and the way that you gain their trust is by shared destiny insured by shared. Projects. And them seeing that Oh. You also write code here. You also go through the same problems and friction regarding how the build system works like if if my team was to introduce a new bill tool, the other engineers know that my team is also going to be feeling that same the same effects related that bill till as that gives them a lot more trust in what we want to be. It also means that the engineers know that. We have the same experience with the guards to people pushing us on deadlines or features not working exactly as planned them. They know that the security engineers are aware that engineers made coding mistakes in that having that humility having a common background just just goes goes over in a wonderful manner it also impacts how we we look at hiring right and what we actually think of. So a like I said, one of my one of my big. Personal mandates slice goes or at least believes that security to be lovable and it's not just technology but also the people people should feel that they keep walk up to any security practitioner and ask them anything like, Hey, what Kinda router get at home because I'm worried about you know hackers and I'm GonNa be working from home to co bid or a you know what kind of phone you use personally flee all the way, all these other kinds of things. I, really want a companies TC, their security team as a team full of helpers and enablers as opposed to eighteen full of regulators right you say regulator and then people just. when you say, Hey, this is somebody here to help you is a completely different conversation. A, touch of that a little bit to at least we're we're. About. staffing and getting people interested in Cybersecurity I. Think some of the things I've seen the long lines to go you know. Organizationally. Kind of be the land of now, and so it's it's shied some engineers and other people away from it because it's like, Oh, you're gonna you're going handcuff me and I don't want to be one of those as well. But you know what is your take on the so-called cybersecurity shortage and how we're doing as an industry to get people on board with security really at all levels. It is. So I think those two questions accu somewhat related. What are those two questions like statement about security teams being the land of no and the cybersecurity. shortage are some related because both of those in my opinion, the answer is you need to have the value of finding yes. I think part of what makes the security. Mc Gusto successful is that they take a fine. Yes. Approach meaning that Hey, whatever the problem is let's try to find a path forward. Let's push it as far as possible until we're GONNA, get to get you to the game you want to do saying no easy saying, yes is where the actual work is where the interesting problems are. That's how you build a coal security products is by taking this to find a yes. That's also how you build good security teams and good security people. Is By finding yes. In the ecosystem, slash the population and what I mean by that is when you see these various different profiles and resumes etc not tossing it in the bin just because somebody doesn't have a size as P or whatever random. You know thing that that you know I soccer etc trying to sell. You know it's more about finding the values and the truth things he need inside of a security team and that doesn't always look the same. So you might have a need for people that are really really really good organization and I can not say this enough how powerful good pm's are in a security or but you can be a phenomenal pm and not be hardcore hacker I'm but sometimes those PM's won't get across the board. you know you look at other areas where there's decky useful. I'll give an example like you know there are other people that have similar skills that could be insecurity. We'll. Start. Away from them you know the example thinking of is organising. That have like risks You know teams or fraud operations teams. These are key people that look a lot like a sock analyst they're looking at data they're looking for patterns they're looking for militias activity. They're just looking at militias activity in a different area and just because they don't have the same experience. Doing that any sock doesn't mean that he can't be valuable to asaf because the reality is a lot of things we do insecurity snot magic. Anybody can learn it. We all had to learn it at some point and I think that s where we becky maybe A. kind of hums hamstring string hamstrung. Yeah. I'm bad I'm bad words. Of. Hamstrung ourselves. Right we go. With this person, he's look up this purple cloud needs to come from the school. They have this kind of addity they need to. Fall into certain demographics like Oh that person can't be too old of that person's too young that person's to black that as to why all these things you gotta talk all that stuff out the window. And you really gotta think about well, what are the attributes that are useful for security team to have? and those attributes and so many different different areas like the attribute of being good at writing software right you know if you can find a good engineer who's good at writing software, you can teach them security. You can have them just execute against designed from somebody else inside of the security team. You can take somebody who maybe has more like maybe like a customer service type background and they can be really really good at. Communicating in under standing other people's problems understanding other people's problems is so valuable inside security because it helps you find those gaps in what we have missed in particular the user experience type gaps those experienced type gaps can be either technical or procedure was like so policies and things like that. Somebody's actually good at being empathic and really standing the user in the pain points that we may introduce somebody could be really good at organizing Particularly you're dealing with with a bunch of nerds can always be a challenge You know with all the cat hurting somebody who's good at hurting catch though is worth their weight and go and you can be more productive. There's so many things that we should and could be doing with the guards of this quotable cyber security. I guess talent gap would still disagree with because I think it's more creativity gab more than anything the people are out. Is. Just that we're not allowing those people in a in. They're still just so much additional work that we can be done and we can raise more people as well. You know I mentioned previously around having a livable security team can be great. But it can also be somewhat of a double edged sword, but is mostly a yogurt store for the rest of engineering team. Is Jordan, just the fact that. If, you make it obvious that the security team can allow people from all kinds of backgrounds. You get a lot more interest from people wanting to join the security team in. Those can often be some of the best hire slash best editions because they already know something else about the rest of the business in often time can bring context that security team by itself will never have. It's funny. You mentioned that is double edged sword I. I've run that organizationally to I I've gone with the very same summer philosophy when I've built Franken I are teams as like we need to sit among the among the masses good pr move businesswise, and then became the fun team and people want to hang out with us. It then became people gravitating towards you've got your fun team to hang out with doing yourself and cool problems and organizationally I. I actually had a little friction manager. Wise was dif- different groups because they're like you know stopped trying to poach my people I'm like I'm not. Just making a welcoming friendly environment what's so bad about that and it it goes back this whole culture thing. I think a lot of stems you know I'm thinking a lot about this lately because I think a lot of it stems from. It this it mindset that we still kind of fall back to with a lot of cyber security positions. You know they need to have witless lead with the technical skills I and I've taken senior analysts of those the kind of client lead part of engagements because they just didn't have the human skills I took a you know a lower level analysts. I was like can you please round with this? Your Morgan is in the client likes you and it brings down that person's anxiety. How do we try to hire for that? That's where I've been struggling lately. Do we haven put a job breakout for that? Well I. Mean. A big part of the interview process. If not doing it everybody should be doing this. Your interview process really should have a lot more people at least half the people on interview panels to be outside of the security team. even better if they're nontechnical to see him this person act communicate. Do they come across as the you know quote unquote security jerk right in. A, love the example you just mentioned her ducks I, I know that I've experienced at where I've had you may or even been that person whereas like, wow, that person's really smart but they're jerked. So nobody wants to listen to them. but we can take this person who may not be made. It had as much of a technical background, but people will actually listen to that person intimately what we want to do insecurity is changed behavior influence and change behavior. It doesn't matter if we have the best idea, nobody wants to listen to that idea howdy that he's screened and interviewed for that the screening process always difficult not just the nature of how we make resumes. meaning that if the person does supply, that information is hard to find it inside the resume but there are things you look for in the resume, right? Like if somebody's like, Hey, you know what I I. Little Boy Scout Troop or organized something at my church I'm involved in this political organization You know what are their hobbies like order the things that you do outside of work and also bring them joy and what are the things that require them to navigate relationships. It and really navigating relationships is kinda cheap to that I mentioned some of those previous examples. Okay. If you are a scout leader, your navigate relationships with a lot of like you know like young kids that are fully fully formed as humans and dillard emotions ideas. If you're doing something inside your essentially anytime, you have more than three people. There's some kind of relationship navigation having to go on in brokering of that, and there are signals that you can find inside of CB's to help you with that ultimately though a lot of have kinda comes across inside of the interview and it really is one of the things each pay a lot of attention to. A this isn't to say that you should pay attention to. What would I still can consider like the most horrible term in Silicon Valley this I'd have cultural fit because really that's you know a a euphemism for racism but you do need. Thank you pay attention to how people interact. And how they treat people on the interview panel right an occasional you wanNA. Toss in other people on the to just mix it up and make sure that you're getting a wide gamut of different personalities and different types of profiles that hers may come in contact with on a day-to-day basis like you know if you have a hardcore security engineer, you have them talk to A. Product manager who maybe may not be as technical and have them work through a problem together and NC K. Hug product manage was your experience. I'm going to have a conversation with this person in i. think those are healthy ways that he kinda gauge some of those things. It's funny. You mentioned that I. Mean that the cultural fit there is a thing that annoys me to admit 'cause it's like it's like. There's a lot of bias that goes into saying we want somebody to be just like me and I'm like, I don't want to hire another me I'm already me I noted, think I don't trust myself enough much less to want to be in an echo chamber. So becomes really difficult to try to say like, how do you I love that approach. Getting to talk to the people because we all say, we want people with communication skills, problem solving skills but unless you really interviewing for that with other people that communicate different look different think different. You're never going to get that gauge of somebody. In yet to be thoughtful and I'll bring back the word again, you have to be intentional. Right. You can't do this on autopilot and a low of y'alls about on touched on Doug. Having, a diverse team I don't want to hire somebody looks just like me Has So many benefits from a security standpoint because there's so many lived experiences that we bring to the table as security practitioners that influence how we make decisions like I'm thinking through a threat model to a threat model exerciser somebody am I thinking about how this product may be used to abuse somebody that's married or maybe they're there are getting divorced lot I'm not married and I haven't been divorced at least not that I know of and so it's one of these. You know having that perspective on a team is actually useful You know obviously that this is all audio so people can't see but I'm six foot one about two hundred and fifty pounds and I'm black right. So my experience walking down the street my spheres dealing with things is actually different than like a small Asian Lady, right so you use the example of one of my friends You should it on the podcast by the way to see the the cease so segment. I love callings nominal. Just just a great security leader, but colleen is really really tiny and we have different threat profile and she would bring to the table something different than I could because she knows what that perspective is like, and she can actually think through problems in a much broader way of from that angle at least that I can and that's really really really really. Useful for security team to have in particular because our job is thinking about risk and thinking about how all these various Linkedin, it can impact in users and our end-user are not monolithic are end users are not commoditised, and because of that is even more important than our security team those whose job it is to help defend tagged are also homogeneous. I think the one of the reason to start at the podcast was still get the question. At least once a day but not many times more as well. How do I get started in cybersecurity and I'm like there's I wish there was a recipe in part of the goal of this podcast was a shed light on the we all come from so many different backgrounds age and that's what's kind of made the Industry Fund. I while fun to be around because there's a lot of I, there should be way more diverse but at least from a background perspective, not everybody's fit this very four year three year mold. But how did you get started? But what was your journey to what we call cyber? Security? Yes of my journey into cyber security and and I'm definitely going to be. Dating Myself You know this is back in style of BBS days and I came across. An article about a gentleman. I guess a his official name or his legal name is John Lee and he was actually the first. Little the first black hacker that I keep seeing like in the news or just general. At his. First, real black person in technology that I was aware of, and that was inspiring for me. I learned a lot by reading like you know about his background, some of the things that activities that he got into you know Du youthful indiscretion, etc.. because. You know the path back ended is different than the past lot of people now. But. It was something I was always constantly interested in but the reality is that you know, I, I was fortunate enough I at phenomenal pairs even though we didn't have money and they made sure that every single one of children went to college I went to school to be an electrical engineer like I wanted to build electric vehicles and electric race cars as specifically at the University of Oklahoma. And as part of that security was in a job, you could even have back Dan's a really my my way becky falling into security was you know I did some Sys Admin type jobs and back then if you did it systems administration by Defacto. You were also a security engineer because you're also protecting the servers. In Ultimate Parley Dad, and key additional, just programming jobs, and ultimately I ended up, you know at Bank of America I was actually working on writing authentication systems in helping be of a bank to bank authentication systems. Enduring that process I just got. Out of Bank of America I found some concerning vulnerabilities that'd be a a a I told my boss about it until. My entire thought process was I was going to get fired. It's okay. You found his name for being curious and it's actually kind of dangerous but instead bank like, Hey, we really invest in application security was making absent team me you're on the team and the rest maybe is somewhat history. I don't WanNA diminish too much about my background but I think probably the most important thing about my background is is probably the most common background and what I mean by that is there wasn't a path there wasn't anything traditional there wasn't eight class I could go to. The thing that I think helped people get into security is the desire to get into security. amenities you about a previous employer where I took somebody from the risk operations team and I keep brought them on security team and I brought that young gentleman on because he was interested insecurity, he wanted to do the work and he wanted to learn about security. I, think that's the True Path into security work is complicated and in another WANNA do disservice to any of your listeners anything like that. 'cause it's not all roses and things like that. I think a lot of people struggle with is, how do you get that first security job? If you say that you are security, I am going to say you are security I don't like this idea that people have to Samoa what. Do you have you know who did you pop? Her handle back in the day. What crew were you with I don't like all the keeping status checking. If somebody says security I, take them at their word security. Now we can. We can talk about levels of their sophistication and what their experiences are and what they're capable. That's a different conversation I. Think the Real Challenge for a lot of people's how do you get that first job insecurity. So, with that it sounds like you you've mentored quite a people but who are some of your early mentors if there's if there's people that really kind of came to mind and how going to help you shared some wisdom with you. Oh obviously, you know John Lee John Threads, an always various different names. He still a role model for for me. Now unfortunate that I actually am in contact with them actually occasionally chat with them and talk to him. You continue to actually get some guidance from him. I would also say a cord Campbell he's actually a gentleman who started one of the largest is fees and Oklahoma of all places. UNIM- partially because not what was he a mentor which is actually great. But the more important thing was he was also sponsor He gave me opportunities he gave me freedom he gave me room to fail and super. Important you know I I have so many different mentors that I. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention my father and I know mates exterior typical but for me is that really instrumental just because my dad always taught us that it was important to. Not only learn about things also learn how things really work like what is underlying in. There's a K. if you have a car is important also understand how the car works for the understand how things work. You can make improvements, you can make adjustments, you can fix things yourself you can make better choices. And he also taught which I think is something that's fundamental or a hacker key taught him the he taught us grit like the idea that you're going to work at things and you're not going to be good at them. You're going to fail but as important, actually get up and even more. So it's important not to quit. On the security side, I would say, probably a my biggest mentors and influences. Dafa Gary McGraw from. Citadel. Synopsis Etc.. Had Him on earlier in the podcast guys, oh. Yes. Well, he he always kill them because he's kind of like you know the godfather best. Gary. You have all these little babies out here. You made a lot of like you know there's A. This fleet of Little Baby McGraw's that are out in the world now others influence. And then you know when when I mentioned Jerry I have to mention Brian Chess, who is the CO founder Dr Ryan Chests Co founder of a fortify because he also took a really big chance on me right like a bank of America just to get another like banking walk still doing security but is I flea you should come out here to California and we're working on the startup and you know he didn't ask how that mad scientists five tone is. Okay. Let's do some crazy stuff and let's take some chances and then probably finally a mentor sponsor hopefully at least partly considering I consider him a frame of a friend also with my previous boss Sam Quigley. From Square and it's just because he was so instrumental in helping me really really understand the power of engineering in how far you can really push that I probably dip my toe into that prior to actually joining at square but he really really accelerated that so. Along List I. Adore because it's so many I. think one of the things that's important in that she goes through these lists isn't just who the mentors are who the sponsors our. Sponsors make such a big difference sponsor who is that person who can open doors for you input you into the position to have the opportunity mentors can give you a lot of great buys a lot of great feedback but it's even more useful to have. Somebody can say like, Hey, I think flea would be a good candidate for this job. Hey, I think flea would be a good candidate for this project getting those opportunities and I think that's where a lot of the frustration in the Zara. Career ecosystem is still people looking for that first job because we can get that I roll or that I stretch rolled is outside of your comfort zone. That's how you can actually start building your career. And getting those people who will he take those chances on you? And you brought up a good point in that you know my father was along the same way concern huge mentor and hero but. Just, like things are they're not always work out for the most part not. In he of learn from your failures is there if you had to kind of pick maybe born is there any particular failure that set you up for future success? Oh. Wow. That is really really really good question It kind of reflect back onto a childhood failure. Absolutely hate the they'll. They'll build on onto where we get today so. It was actually a failure. So for my parents because we didn't have money education was just ultra ultra important to them and and giving us all kinds of various opportunities to be educated naked builder Sosa into well rounded individuals is really important to them. One aspect of each of their children being a well rounded individual is actually for each one of us to learn to play at least one instrument. So of e-group in the Lee House whole. You were required to pick an instrument and learned to play it and part of their entire hint. wasn't to create a children's band or anything like that. It was for them to teach US value of practice at the value of failure end the reason why practices necessary. So we're going with. This is one of the interest that that I picked was the the saxophone got pretty good I. I was a really good but I let Hubris probably get my way for certain opportunities in our member for other band nerds out there. I remember losing I share right. So I was like Oh yeah. I'm like Alpha Band nerd and all right. Yeah. Obviously. I'M A, I'm a cybersecurity podcast should be no secret that I'm a nerd. But that was instrumental to me because my parents are like you know they didn't force me to be I share. They didn't force me to make straight as what they force us to deal with always try BIS, and when I lost I chair My parents are like, well, why did you lose I charity Did you practice enough? We notice you weren't accurate practicing that. Often we came home from school. So what's the problem there and that that failure was? Instrumental to me because there was something I cared about and it was like, oh. My Dad was like well, look you know you could be upset about this but what he should be upset about was, what could you control that you didn't control and what I could control was my practice an even told us other people like if you're upset about something a, don't be upset about the data change the data right is though if you're upset about, hey, you know. I didn't meet my metrics or X. Y. and Z. I'm also a cyclist and upset because I can't climate hill as fast as my friends is not really the hills fault because I can actually change those things that can change how much I train can change dot practice. I can change you know some of my effort into my work Gusto etc. so that's probably one of the more important lessons that was instilled upon me like I still think about parents that today but they laugh when I called 'cause my parents are super southern. Says like every single phone call like, oh, we're so proud of you baby yet. We love you so much always making us as a kid this is this isn't my work. This is your work. You You you helped me learned the value of hard work and I think it's also one of the things that a lot of people miss out on nate think about getting into security it is hard work right? Aren't really a lot of shortcuts around that art and I think sometimes people are looking for advice in the advice looking for a shortcut. Isn't short. It's one of the most valuable things you can learn is hard work. As I told my team all the time embrace the grind right you gotta you gotta you gotTa put the time then sometimes. It nonstop. I found. You know that's the one thing. There's. Every week it's a cliche say that you know is a journey that never ends, but it's true I mean you really have to learn every day. There's a new threat there's a new technology you're constantly having to relearn. Oh, yeah and I personally love I'd get a lot of fulfillment out of it. But it is one of the things I. Think some people forget about like the stuff that the security things that was doing at Bank of America are not the kind of security things I should be doing at Gusto. There's some common beams there's some common patterns, but the technology is different the people are. The world itself is different We think Kobe right now the world of Kobe is different, right? It's what we're extending from security standpoint should probably also be different. Absolutely, flee I love talking to where can people find you on the interwebs On the inner webs of Yes. So I I guess I use twitter. So sporadically there's probably the one of the places you're going to find me my twitter handle is just Frederick L. F. R. E. D. R. I C. K. l. in also people actually want to reach out to me link. Dan is actually really easy way Jackie learn more about me You can learn more about meeting learn more about Gusto. I'm so passionate about the things that we're doing and also wouncil passionate brown applying some security skills and privacy philosophy that picked another places curate Gusto, and how come that actually interweaves I. I really do like being at companies and you'll see this Lincoln that are all about helping humans. Right and Gusto is just such a great place to do that and I try to keep my door open for people that are interested not only in Gusto, joining the security team but maybe we were just interested inequity joining the the security community. If I can leave at one parking word a word. It would be that if you are a listener, a Doug Scrape podcast here and you wonder whether or not you are security, you are security. If you say are security our security. And if you need help Beth with community is here for the hacker communities darted about freeing and sharing knowledge, and it's still there if you have problems finding that feel free to hit me up I. I. will try my best to help you as much as within my power and time. I love it. Yeah. Big Big motto I have is give to get. So I will be sure to put all your information in the show notes in I. Can't thank you enough for being on the podcast. Thanks so much. This is phenomenal conversation I. You know I love being on her. Thank you so much for giving us. Honor my pleasure. We'll talk soon. Cheers. Thank you so much for joining us today on Cybersecurity Interviews I. Hope that you enjoyed this interview as much as I did her please go to cybersecurity interviews, dot com where you can find every episode including show notes and links each guest's there. You can also find social media links hand to sign up for new episode notifications. Thanks we'll talk soon.

engineer Kobe Bank of America University of Oklahoma Doug Garcia RSA Risk Management Conference John Lee becky Gusto Silicon Valley US Douglas Brush twitter executive Hayes mass. Frederick
The Long Game of Healing

Girl Power Alliance

31:45 min | 6 months ago

The Long Game of Healing

"Welcome to the girl power lines podcast where you're going to meet and hear from some inspiring women with Incredible stories or leading in business and in fact, We are on a mission to impact the World by empowering women to dream bigger Your Kingdom Minded mentoring and Leadership. This is where women grow back. Welcome back to another episode of the girl power lines podcast. I'm so excited about my guest today. I loved hearing her story. I think it's such a new perspective on something you heard about your whole life, you know people that work at do social work, but I cannot wait to share Kirby story with you. She is a licensed clinical social worker who currently works as an instructor for the University of Oklahoma Kirby believes her life's mission is to empower others took up into their calling through helping them heal their body Mind and Spirit. She has more than 10 years of experience in the field of Social Work and church ministry. She's written and developed a video series a Bible study called healed for women who have experienced sexual assault in addition to being a Survivor herself Kirby utilize their educational and professional experience to help readers through their journey of healing this fall Kirby plans to launch an event called Embers to raise raise awareness about sexual assault and create a place for survivors to worship and he'll I got chills when I even said that wage Kirby has been married to her best friend for ten years. She has two daughters and one day hopes to have hopes to have her Labradoodle Penny certified as a therapy dog. She can be found blogging at Living were the.com or sharing tidbits of information on social media. Welcome Curry. Thank you. Thanks for having me and so happy to have you and when we spoke before I just thought your name was so beautiful and the way that you have really taken the experiences in your life and turn them into something to help other people is like what we're all about. So I'd love for you to share just a little more with everybody. Yeah, so to kind of summarize all of this together, I went to school to be a therapist a social wage and in that process I realized that I had some stuff that was unresolved myself. And I started going to therapy and I worked through my history of experiencing sexual assault that actually occurred in my freshman year of college. And in that process. I found that I was struggling to connect what I was learning in my therapy with what I knew about the Bible and what I knew about God's character and I found some resources that were out there but times it felt a little too clinical or it talked about trauma in general and it didn't hit right on sexual assault. And so I decided that I would pray about it and I felt God calling me to go ahead and write something but I wasn't quite sure and then one day he just downloaded everything to me. This was the time all this was that chapters. This is what you were going to talk about and I had a season where I just sat and I wrote and now I've been able to use that as a tool to be able to help them. Thurs in to help them articulate their experiences now, I teach other social workers and I can help offer them different perspectives and it's been really amazing to see how God has used to this month in multiple different areas of my life. Isn't he good like that? So like you think it's going to be one thing and it's so something else. Hm. Absolutely so good. I am so okay. So her her story is that she was in college and experience sexual assault and you know, you went you went for healing through that I would like for you to share with everybody how God kind of pressed on you to take it from Just you healing to something more. Yeah, actually in the beginning wage. I remember having these conversations with my husband where I said, I don't want to be one of those people who just goes through a hard time and then talks about it for the rest of their life, which is so funny birth. and so I was originally in that space for many years and I think that it was just some of this undoing as I would sit in these vulnerable moments where I was praying I was reading scripture and I slowly felt bad start to walk to push on me and say you have a story to tell and I want you to go out and share your story and then it manifested into this idea of a Bible study where I said, I can't find something that I need and cut said to me. Well, that's because you need to write this what you need is what other people need and this is what you need to be doing. So it was it wasn't something that was immediate or I could say that there was this moment where it totally clicked for me instead. It was this radical transformation of saying I don't want to do this until God say like no, this is your calling and maybe you're challenging it right now because you don't believe in it or you are doubting your job. How for you know whatever we we tell ourselves and those moments and it was this unraveling into know this is what I have for you and I really want you to step in and honor it and you're going to have so much joy in this which is definitely been true. I think it's funny. Just how just me I know me and so many of the other one that I talked to I feel like we're waiting for like the burning bush Moment Like hurt you have this one moment and all of a sudden everything is so clear. I mean really that's actually not even biblically accurate because there was the burning bush moment and then there was a like a period of years 40 more than 40 years between off that moment and the time that Moses led the Israelites out of out of Egypt. So I feel like in our minds right? We think that there's going to be this Burning Bush moment and then all of a sudden poof Clarity and we're moving farmer you wish it was like yes, and I would add that. I also think that that's how people see success. Yes that they think that it's going to all of a sudden be this moment and they've reached This point of success but just like me writing this you will never see the hours and hours and hours that I spent writing and editing and reviewing and praying and thinking about it and trying to get this to come into fruition and all you see is the end result. It's so true and I think that I just know that I struggle with it like I struggle with it still and I don't know why it's like do I forget that quickly that what God does is he reveal the next step? And I feel like sometimes he'll give you this like microsecond of like a peer into the future to keep you moving in that direction, but then it's like gone and then all you have is the next step. Yes. Absolutely. So that microsecond that you're talking about I've heard it as often phrased as these moments of validation. And I went to a conference once where it was that they really encouraged people who were pursuing their calling to make sure that they write down or they document those moments of validation because there aren't many times when the enemy wants to derail us and it's easy to forget about those little moments that happen. If we have a place where we can go back and be reminded or may have someone who can remind us about that moment that it's going to help us stay steadfast and faithful. Well, I've always heard people that are in Iraq Ministry tell people that are receiving it or even better speaking it to write it down for that exactly that reason so that we can be reminded and when I when I wrote my book, I read it at the end of 2018 and but it's funny because I read it. Well, I read it a a bunch of times, you know this from writing content and stuff like seated a million times, but like I had removed myself from and I read it again song And I was like so blessed by my own story and I believe that that there's so much power in that that sounds narcissistic. It's not at all but people reminding me of all the times that God has showed up again and again in been so faithful. So if you're listening to this, please listen to what Kirby said write down keep a journal of the the moments or the confirmations or the prophetic moments or words that are spoken over you date them so that you can look back and be reminded of how God has been with you every step of way. Absolutely. It's so good. Okay. So now when we spoke there like your story is like so many others in the Bible where you know, you experienced this then you kind of lamented over it then you decided to do something then you wrote it and then it's at oh, yes. Yeah. It's like long journey from experience to actually putting this into the world for other jobs. Will the benefit mhm. Yeah share a little bit about that with people cuz again, I think people think oh look at she went through this and look at her now. Yes, and and the other part of my storage I after I wrote this Bible study I decided to record these videos of me teaching and going through the different chapters. And I did all of this in March of 2018 month since I was getting really excited and really pumped and then in May of 2018 on Mother's Day. I found out that I was going to have a baby which is a very joyous occasion, but came as a shock to us and so as I was processing through I'm a planner. I want to know what's going to come next. I want to know how to prepare as I was processing through the things that I had been called to do when it came to this Bible study and teaching this and bringing this into the world. I set that aside as I was dead. With all of my other emotions and it is only now. So 20 20 that I'm feeling like, okay. I'm ready. Even with this. We're still fighting against the pandemic and what that means for us to struggle with social distancing and Affairs being canceled or events being held virtually and there's just a lot of barriers just a lot of challenges, but I will tell you that I have found that if we can be consistent and we can be steadfast that that's where we're going to see the blessing on the other side and that consistency wage always went So it might after my moment of waiting now, I'm in this Zone where I could easily say it's another excuse, you know, it's it's a pandemic like it's box is maybe I just let it sit some more and I feel God continuing to tell me know we're not sitting any longer removing. We're moving it's funny cuz when when you know, he's telling you to move you just move even if you're scared and have no idea and I think anybody in this first of all, there are a lot of people exactly where you're at. I'm one of them, I mean moving forward with something new that your birthing during the season feels almost like I it almost feels wrong like if it was like, how am I who do I think I am to birth something during the world is in this way. The world is birthing. Yes. I cancel the world is birthing but it takes so much courage and I believe that that only comes from you know, really being filled with the faith of God and track. That he's he's guiding your path. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And when we spoke we talked about that idea of birthing in that metaphor of Labor and for those who who had a child, you know, that that's a process whether it's something that's induced or a surgery or something that comes on its own, you know that there's a process and it's doesn't always look like you wanted it to look and it's kind of painful even if you use medication, it's still pretty painful and with my last birth. I remember I started getting contractions over a week before she came and it was this endurance of knowing like this is still coming. I know this is coming. We're not there yet. I used my support system at the time to really help get me through that week, which I think is also really metaphorical for us to know that a support system matters, but then dead The end result. I mean she came really quickly. And so after you go through this season of like waiting and struggling it may come faster than what you think. But you had to get through that part first. Yeah, and I think we I mean don't we all just want to fast-forward don't you want to like find out that you're pregnant get to the cute part of pregnancy and then just get to the birth, you know likely you want to like start going to get to like months 6 and then yes, you're the first yes exactly and maybe even after they start sleeping through the night. If you do that like like six weeks. Yeah or like long depending on what kind of kid you have it maybe goes like if I could burst six months old six month old then I would have lots of kids exactly. Well. My my youngest child is almost eighteen. She still doesn't sleep through the night. So, how about how about that one? Definitely depends? Well, I think it's so valuable for people to I mean, we haven't even talked about your content and log You really do for women, will you I mean we could we could do Seventeen podcasts just on the journey for sure, but I want the people that are listening and hearing from you to hear what it is that you do and your event doing is it going to be a virtual event so we wouldn't even know yet. So we really had so hard. We really wanted it to be in person. But I am in Oklahoma page right now our numbers continue to rise when it comes to covid-19. Level of distance. Yeah, and so I'm I'm doing this event with a friend of mine. Her name was Erica and we actually got connected because she has written a song She's a child sexual abuse Survivor and she's written a song for victims of sexual abuse. It's called Masterpiece and it is this beautiful song about how regardless of what track we've been through. We are still this masterpiece that God has created and brought into this world and we still have so much that we can shine into the world around us. And so I want to bring bring that there and I want to be able to share things with people but I feel like if we're not in person it will lose some of that maybe we do some smaller virtual events and people can sit in their living rooms in their bedrooms and be able to listen and be in a private space and then maybe we're able to bring it in to a live event later. yeah, it really is a difficult time and it really is hindering a lot of I mean first of all, we need human connection and as amazing as it is to be on Zoom with you. I mean, I would love if we were like sitting across from each other we can go get lunch afterwards. You know, I know are in different stages. So that's yeah, sorry, but but I agree with you. So what is it that you are is your is your course out and available now? Yeah, so it is so if you go to living wage. Com, you can click on the tab that says healed and it has my PDF that you can download and it has all of my recorded videos that you can watch. I'm actually about to launch on social media a series of where I share it and I really start to promote promote it I realize that I've gotten this onto other platforms. So it's on a couple different home Ministry platforms four people can access it. But I've not really promoted it myself on social media and I think that a lot of us struggle with that of how do we promote ourselves and not come off like I do totally Really narcissistic people and so I'm going to do this on my social media where people can watch the videos or follow along and I decided that I want to add some additional content where I'm just recording some additional videos to add like, for example, my first chapter is all about self-care and I want it to lay that Foundation of if we're going to talk about trauma if we're going to talk about the assault that we've been through. I've been through you've been through we have to know when to pause and take time for ourselves. And so that's foundational. But I also realize that there's so much more to unpack because when we go through a trauma like that it affects how we feel about our body. May I realized for myself that I struggled to even feed myself well because I thought that I didn't deserve it because of what my body had been through And so it was there's just things like that that you may not even know initially and as you start to unpack it you realize. Oh, that's why I skipped breakfast is because I think that my worst comes from productivity versus taking even an extra 10 minutes 15 minutes to make a smoothie or something on my way out the door, so I bought some nutrition in my body. Hm. Well, so I wanted to add some of those things into this as some additional content which you know, like you write something and then later when you think about it, you're like, oh I could add this to you. Oh, I can believe me. I wanted to rewrite both of my books like 30 times already like you just start. It's like you start to unpack more and more and more and peel away the layers and you realize like when this happened to me years and years and years ago, and I'm still dealing with the effects of it in my life and realizing there are still places where I need a job. He'll and that's okay. I need to let that be okay and I want that to be okay for other people too. Well, I'm so glad you said that but I just I almost feel like while we're here, sir the 4th. We are healing. And we all not experience the full measure of healing until we are walking with Christ. And I that's another thing that I think that people are they feel almost like they failed because they're still dealing with something. Yes. You know, what you've done is so powerful for anybody that's listening that's been through any type of a trauma specifically, you know sexual trauma that you're that you're helping women to get through is that it's okay to not be healed and you can still you can still impact and help other people from your app because your steps ahead of somebody else who is where you were and that I think is another thing that the enemy does he lies to us and tells us well you're not you're not healed. So, how could you help other people but you're further off. And then somebody is even if it was just yesterday because once you deep dive which you've done you've done a lot of work, I mean for yourself and in helping people, which just I think that's why we continue to want to add things to cuz when we help other people and it it just this never ends its yes, I've never ending but you know, your your ability to help other people is just the courage to step out and say I totally understand where you were. This is what I went through here's where I'm at today. Cuz even that took it may seem so marginal to you is life-changing to somebody else. Yes. Yeah, and when it comes to this topic trauma sexual assault Things that are related one of the most powerful feelings will have about it is shame and if you've done in if you've studied brene Brown's work at all and what she talks about with shame is that to combat that we need our empathy and we need someone to say, you know, I've been there too. Maybe it doesn't look exactly the same but I've been that too. So maybe you're not completely healed but if you're able to say, yeah, I've been in that place before and I'm a little further down the road or this is how I got passed it off that can help get rid of some of that shame which is hindering us from really leaning into the healing that God has for us so that we can keep moving forward home. Absolutely. It's so powerful and I feel like I say this almost on every podcast but you know, we've heard the statement that the truth will set you free, which we know is true. We know that wage. True just in our own lives what we see in the world, you know as truth comes to light in any situation. There is freedom that that comes to that but I also believe that the there's so much power. In fact of having the courage to tell your story whatever it is, wherever it comes from whatever it is because your your truth this is what I believe your truth sets other people free because it's unlocks this door that now says to them. Well you shared this now I it it gives them permission to share their story too. So it's like bow powerful so important to to take to find the so here's the thing about courage courage doesn't mean you're not scared. You can be terrified but means you've done it you're doing anyway. Yes, absolutely. And I firmly believe that the enemy wants to keep us silent. Yes, and that's one of the most powerful tools that's used against us off. To keep us silent to keep us from sharing to keep us from reaching out to keep us sitting where we are rather than saying I'm going to trust and I'm going to take this next step and I'm listen to God's voice over what everything else might be telling me. Yes. Yes. Yes to all of that. I mean it's really one of the main things that I'm so excited about with girl power lines, which is amplifying voices and there's all different voices. I mean the the variety of women who you know are contributing content her being on the who are guests on the podcast the it's like from east to west is the variety of their stories and everything but every single time it's it's like say you're you're taking a swipe at the enemy every time you share your story every time you you know, share how God spoke to you how you've overcome how he's blessed you every time so it's like we just need to get an army of women that continue to just keep talking keep talking keep sharing just keep going because we are we are tapping the other person and saying go go off. Yes, and something that I have loved is I followed girl power Alliance is that it is never about a competition never and that is something where I feel like we can either make it up dead. Or our towards true, but we look at other people and their success and we think oh, I'm never going to be that successful or you know, why should I even try something? I don't look like that or I don't talk like them when we forget that our version has a place in this world too, and we really need to be lifting everyone up. I used a metaphor one time because I talked I was struggling with should I write this book and what if it just feels repetitive and so part of what I do is I've LED and worship Ministry before and I was reminded of all of the different versions of a song hm. So one same song with the same lyrics and the same Melody can be done by different artists and you may like how this person did it and it may speak to you differently when your friend may like how another person did it and it speaks to them differently in all of them. That draws us towards the same place and it's not a competition of whose version is better. It's just a different way to look at the song and so beautiful. And so, I'm thinking about okay. Well the way that I've written about my trauma and how we recover from trauma, maybe a different version of the song that someone needs to hear. You know a similar song is already out there. That's so powerful and so important and I like to use the God showed me one time. He was talking about the thumbprint. Like we all have thumbs. I mean most people unless you've been without a thumb or your thumb got chopped off, but we all have them and but but our thumbprint is unique to only us on the planet in all of existence. And so that that alone tells me that he wanted us to to have our own unique stamp and so every voice matters and so I am all about collaboration. I believe there is enough for everybody to go around and even when I when I was you know, feel like God was calling me to start girl power Alliance. I'm like, come on like how can I go out into this world? There's so many things and I just kept hearing him, you know talk about what you're doing is a unique to you and it's going to you know, be for certain people and so I believe that in general and So within the community of girl power Alliance, I I feel very I feel very compelled to just continue to amplify every voice of every woman and like there are different platforms where they'll be like, yeah, you can do this, but we're not going to like they make life hard for people to find the people right like you have a speaker, but then you have to just maybe go Google them or whatever. I I feel very led to put all of the information so that people can connect directly with people as a result of people being involved with because I believe so much in creating an environment of no competition for women. I is another thing that I think the N has done to women in general for hundreds, maybe since the beginning of time is that he knew that when women bind together and they found for something together that the power that women have is like undeniable and so he created this thing where we just are in constant competition with each other or with ourselves quietly like compare authors. Even if maybe you know like but it's in your own mind and so I just want to review that I just want to elevate every different kind of woman, even if they're in the same profession over and over and over, you know what I mean? Cuz they're all different unique off every voice matters every single voice matters. Absolutely. Oh, I love it. Well tell the people that are listening how they can find you. Where are you on social media page to connect with you and your programs. Yeah. So on social media my Instagram and Facebook is the same and it's just my full name and I can spell my last name cuz it's a married life kind of a difficult last name. But my first name is Kirby k i r b y. Last name is Bailey b e w l e y. So my Instagram is just at Kirby viewing and then on Facebook, it's Kirby Beauty and you can follow me there and then my blog website you can actually access it through Kirby be laid off. Or originally started at Living worthy of that. We should live knowing that we are worthy as we are powerful home and needed and I want to say thank you to you for having the courage to share and to go out into the world and tap another woman on the shoulder and and keep her to take the next step and be healed for all of her he's information. If you're listening to the podcast, it'll be in the show notes just scroll down and you can connect with her and if you're watching this on YouTube same thing just took down below the video all of her information and how to connect with her will be there. And I just thank you and I'll be praying for your event to come. However, it is supposed to you know, presents itself. I hope it's live. I wanted to be live for you. I think that that's you know, I'll just strange with all this stuff to kind of mellow and the weakening get on with living wage. Way that we used to live in connect with people. And again, just thank you so much for taking the time to share today. Yeah. We're thank you so much for having me. So grateful for women like Kirby their strengths their vulnerability and their courage to share their story and not just share it but actually use it for other woman's benefit to help them heal, but so remarkable woman great just a tremendous story and we love you Kirby. So thank you so much for being part of the girl power Life podcast speaking of girl power Alliance. Have you liked our social media Pages were on Instagram or LinkedIn? We're on Facebook. Check us out. We sure are podcasts lots of beautiful inspirational quotes and photos off on things. And right now we are prepping for and just literally like less than two weeks the bloom Summit head over to the bloom Summit wage come and get yourself registered so you can have an all-access pass. We wholeheartedly believe that this event is going to transform lives the most phenomenal speaker the most amazing women and we are expectant for God to show up and for you to have Miracle growth the boom summit.com. You can also register off from our main page, which is girl power lines.com. And if you are a member of girl power Alliance, then you have access to this Summit for free and there's so many amazing. Using tools and resources as a part of the membership, so don't delay do it now just say yes begin your journey of growth and continued to grow. Yeah. That's why we say this at the end of every podcast girl power Alliance is where women grow.

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Severe Weather Musts or Busts

Weather Geeks

41:31 min | 1 year ago

Severe Weather Musts or Busts

"The word bust, when describing the outcome of a high profile weather and forecasting has become more frequently used as of late, it's even referred to time as the b were the whites this war thrown around so much when forecast and become so good. These high profile events seemed to be held at a higher standard today. Dr Kevin Claes of the university of Oklahoma joins us to talk about this very thing. I'm Dr Marshall shepherd. And thank you for joining us on the weather podcasts, Kevin, thank you for joining us on the podcast today. Dr shepherd. It's great to be with you. And we know each other worlds, just definitely call me Marshall, Kevin. Hi, do go way back was actually, one of my professors actually, at Florida State University when I was a student there. I don't know. We actually had any classes together, but he's also been a guest on the television version of weather geeks. Let me just set set the stage with his background Kevin's and I will refer to him in the intro. Dr Claes will, but Kevin is the director of the Oklahoma climatological survey. He's also the university meteorologist in the Oakland university of Oklahoma office of emergency preparedness. He's also associate professor in the college of atmospheric and geographic sciences, and he has his Bs engineering science from university of Texas at Austin and a masters and PHD in meteorology from Penn State university. He is just a delight delightful colleague that I've interacted with over the years, and you're gonna learn more about him over the course of the podcast. But before we really dive into the topic. Today, which is severe weather must or bus. Tell us limit about yourself Kevin and how you got into meteorology. Well Marshall, thanks again, for the invitation of my background goes all the way back to little league baseball. Because I just could not figure out why the football kids in the soccer kids, and everybody else could play when it was raining. But the baseball kids for some reason had to be rained out at didn't I didn't didn't bother me to play in the month or anything like that. And, and I think my love of sports, my love of weather from very early age has sort of been that intersection where now I'm doing operational forecasting for athletic events and venues and trying to look at venues safety, but knowing the importance of forecasts observations, and so my work at the Oklahoma climate survey in with the Oklahoma mezzanine, which is celebrating its twenty fifth anniversary this year really sort of underpinned the ability for us to, to forecast, and ultimately look at the topic that that's at hand. You know what, what does accuracy mean what, you know, wonder people sexploitation when it comes to? Gasping from the meteorological community, and I want to pick up on something you said there in your answer. I know that you recently, let an effort by the American meteorological society to put forth. A statement on guidance for outdoor activities and and how people should respond plan for weather events. I know that I've seen you quoted as saying having a plan of hope is no longer acceptable, given the where we are with weather forecasting in our -bility. So you mentioned safety and forecasting for outdoor weather events. And that's one of the hat she weirdo you for football games. I've various other as I've survey the landscape and seeing things like the duck boat accident out in Missouri. I guess a year or so ago recent lightning strikes at the US open golf tournament, and people just sort of milling around on the course, what are your thoughts on sort of planning for weather event? I want to we're going to go all over the place. I want to go there. I what are your thoughts on where we need to be on that shore? I think that where we are as a field now. The ability to intimidate weather hazards on much longer timelines, whether that's a now cast for hours in the afternoon. For example, you mentioned the US open, it was the US women's open that had the, the lightning strike, but I I'd rather focus on the masters right masters, which was an unbelievable event this year, actually for the first time in history moved. The entirety of the final round on day, four on Sunday to the morning instead of the afternoon. So that the entire round could be played before severe weather arrived. I n in fact as they were preparing for the award ceremony at the end after tiger. Woods won the tournament that there was an evacuation or evacuation had to occur. If that had occurred in the middle of that round in a we don't know how that event would have played out. We see whether impacting events all time and with the knowledge that's available now. We can no longer hope. That something bad won't happen. We have too many instances were individuals who went to a festival or to a concert or to a sporting event. These are fun things right easier supposed to be memorable memorable events for families in such when you have a, you know, a father kill it in Woodvale at a festival in right in front of a young child when you have children, they're killed in on the field. Whether they're playing soccer, whatever the case may be you have people who are killed going to auto races because of lightning batch when we have to as a community step up and say, you know what the technology and the talent the expertise exists, not to be the office of. No, right. Sometimes people think with meteorology while they're just gonna cancel something. That's not true. It's not about cancellation. It's about having the event being the office of. Yes. But let's have a safely as possible. So that, that. Families in votes that go to those things can be great experiences in memorable experiences on the good side, not the bad side. We're talking with Dr Kevin Claes with the university of Oklahoma where several has kinda wanna walk through each of them. You're kinda hearing some of his thoughts as his wearing his hat as university meteorologist for the university of Oklahoma in the office of emergency preparedness Takasu. What is your day like on a football game are no use a big football school, just like university of Georgia, where I am and where we both used to be Florida state so in that role what what's typical daylight for years, we sort of head toward football season. Well, it's not much different than fan who goes to the game these days. Now, if you think about what a fan does the fan makes preparations long in advance, right? They make sure that they have their tickets or their season, tickets, they make sure that they've gone to the grocery store for all of the items, they're making a list, or the stakes and the chicken wings, and the, you know, the dips and the chips and the drinks and on and on and on. So there's a tremendous amount of preparation that fan goes through to even come to the game. Right. The game experience doesn't just start kickoff for us. It's the same way were making preparations even now for fall up all season in how're going to, to operate with respect to weather how we're going to look at safety across the board game safety, so interfacing with the athletes department and with emergency management in with our law enforcement community and then all the way to the week of the game where we have pre meetings Ilan. We have exercises, we do tabletop activities. So it's. Almost a year round thing in much the same way that I think a fan would approach football. It's, it's year round all those on magazines are coming on the news stands right now. And everybody's yet already for the season will so our wheat on the on the weather side to make sure that we have the best fan experience possible for the folks that come to our games, yet it's important because there's so many people there at any given time, and if there is a an extreme weather event of some type you have to think about evacuating people getting them say to safety in an open stadium and whatnot, not predate the work that you in colleagues in the emergency management, preparedness realm do for, for the communities there at oh, you end and around the country wanna shift to your title is director of the Oklahoma climatological survey telephoto about that. What that organization is, and also introduce our listeners to the Oklahoma Mezin at which is arguably one of the if not the. Best Mezin that program in the country, and perhaps the world. While kind words, thank you Marshall were very, very proud of it. The Oklahoma climate survey is the, the entity within the state of Oklahoma. That is responsible for being the repository for all weather in climate information, but not just storing an archival, but mining that data for useful information that we can provide stakeholders on most of those stakeholders being other state agencies, for example of our Oklahoma water Resources Board. Our department of environmental quality agriculture forestry unit weather has so many implications across all of those entities. And so the ability to work with our state government in our state, stakeholders on a daily basis is, is incredibly rewarding. And it helps us as meteorologists and climatologists formulate a strategy of how we want to measure the atmosphere and what? Ramat are the most useful. So along those lines, twenty five years ago, Oklahoma state university, and the university of Oklahoma put together a package to instrument, the state of Oklahoma to make sure that there's instrumentation in every county, and then provide that information back within five minutes to every stakeholder that we have, and of course, the stakeholders have grown from the dozens to the hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands to the point where we're taking hundreds of thousands of observations every day, archiving those for research purposes. And, and the foresight, that governor Henry Bellman had twenty five years ago in our state legislature of the value of having information like this, in Oklahoma or example, Mejias last night. Oh, my word we had storms blasts through overnight. Severe weather a cut a swath seventy mile an hour, winds across the southern half of our state. But the ability to be right on top of those wind gusts every step. Of the way to be able to provide a rival times to emergency management jurisdictions with respect to win the storms will get there. How bad they will be. That's invaluable information for many folks to prepare their communities against a what we've had this year's onslaught of severe weather for the last couple of months, and I want to pick up on that I wanna read a couple of the ticks here, and then we'll pick up with the conversation in the span of twenty eight days, this past may there were over five hundred fifty tornadoes reported across the country. Several of these violent e f four tornadoes, on average, the country's about two hundred eighty tornadoes a month in may. So it's clear that may was record smashing, and kept folks like you and Oklahoma in the emergency preparedness office on edge, and busy, what are your thoughts on this made it feel more active than previous maze? Or we just get a late start just tell us your your. You live right there in the heart of what, what many referred to tornado alley. So what was your experience? Like for me. It was busy, but I can't say that it was. Unusual. Right. I recall we were actually looking at some of the hours, for example, we spent six hundred ninety two hours in an advisory watcher, a warning of some type flood. Severe weather tornado cetera. Abets an incredible number of hours. But when you compare going back, we spent more hours than that in may of twenty fifteen so we seen these, these cyclic goal, you know, years in which we just have active severe weather. Periods week tend to have short memories with some of those. But if you look back, again, one of the responsibilities of the climate survey is to make sure that we put what's going on. Currently in, in some historical context on for us in Oklahoma. This was just another one of those Oklahoma springs that we seem to be noted for one of the things often pops up in these discussions when we see these types of activities where those tornadoes caused by climate change. And we certainly know that climate change is real thing. But there's not a good deal of find evidence or consensus that links sort of severe torn attic events or what we call severe convective systems to climate change in the attribution study. So I always cautioned the media, and even people that are, you know, all in on, on climate to be a little bit careful about the tornado and hail and severe weather linkages right now because we just know that they aren't as firm as perhaps some of the other linkages out there, and we completely agree with you. And you know, you know, some of your friends here in Norman, doctor Harold Brooks. The severe storms lab and, and others have been looking at this issue. And this is again back to the mezzanine is why the data are so important. The ability to have research quality data is ultimately going to be the difference between understanding the atmosphere and not because we're just throwing out, you know, weather stations with instruments that are not calibrated than we don't have the detail that we need to understand that atmosphere. And, and you know this I mean, our community is such that when we come to work every morning, I this afternoon, we want to understand the atmosphere better than we did this morning than come back tomorrow and do it over again without research quality data that can't happen. And with the questions were being asked especially in this climate change era of discussion, the data that underpins these, these research studies with respect to climate with respect. Your weather in climate in that intersection are critically important us. And so that's one of the things we try to do is maintain the integrity of data going forward. The Weather Channel is partnering with land in to give you a chance to win some amazing gear three lucky winners will receive the new ultimate rain jacket that the Weather Channel meteorologist will be wearing during the upcoming hurricane season. So what are you waiting for? Enter for your chance to win at we love weather dot TV slash land in that we love whether dot TV slash land. And we are back on the weather. Geeks podcast. I'm Dr Marshall shepherd from the university of Georgia, and I'm speaking with Dr Kevin clay's from the university of Oklahoma back to clay's A-List coming to us from the Oklahoma weather lab. Studio at the university of Oklahoma. So we want to give a big shout out to anybody involved in making that facility available for this weather geeks podcast interview today, so I want now pivot to this word bust. And you, you know, it Kevin, we hear it all the time, we particularly see it in Twitter, whether Twitter, you have an outbreak. You got people gearing up messaging on Twitter. You got chasers out everywhere. And there, I'm seeing more and more. I'm hearing. I actually don't like hearing it right in the midst of the advantage, self and all we can perhaps deal with that a little bit later in itself. But first of all, when you hear this term bus got this forecast, let me just set the stage on may. Twentieth. For example, the storm prediction center issued their first high risk for the seven plane since twenty seventeen multiple particularly dangerous situation tornado watches were issued that night in everyone was particularly on edge final tally with thirty five confirmed tornado reports from that particular event. But as the event was evolving I started seeing the word bust being thrown around. Do you think that high-risk day verified and why or why not? Wow. That's a loaded question. And it's, it's really interesting. And I think my colleagues are about to hate me for what I'm about to say. That's on us. And I think it's on the education side. Right now, one thing I will say about busts if somebody is thinking forecast busted, then there are some positives that we can take from that, right. One is somebody saw a forecast somebody felt like there were impacts associated with that forecast. And potentially made a decision based upon those forecasts looking as if they were reliable information, which they are. Right. And so, I think that's a positive that we can take when people bust. I think, you know, sometimes we look at the word bussed in, we take that personally. And then we get defensive I think we have to flip that script. Right. I think that if somebody is talking about a forecast bust. I think we've gotta take some measure of satisfaction. That, hey you saw the forecast and. You probably did something about it now. It's up to us to go in and work with individuals. And we try to do that here on this campus. Right with athletics with our events space with student organizations to get them to understand the uncertainties involved with the individual forecast and what the possibilities are in. So we did that on that day. So I don't think that there's anybody on our campus of it's going to be talking about that day as a bus because we ended up with tornado warnings later that evening, right? So actually the overnight period. And so for us as individuals on this particular campus there was no bust about it, right? We were prepared. We were ready. We had shelters available, you know, we had campers and we had to deal with those situations because we have summer camps as well. So we have, you know, now, if nothing comes for wishing in that particular situation is the outcome different. Yes. But we've hopefully prepared our folks for that possibility as well. That, you know, here's what we think might happen here the possibilities. And I know that, you know, sometimes it's tough to do that in Twitter or in short time, snippets or in soundbites to actually splaine all possibilities, but I think of bust, alternately means that people are paying attention. That's right at the end of the day as we noted. There were thirty five confirm confirmed tornado reports and if that got people to act and react and do something to for their safety more power to the message there, there. There have been some that have argued that bust is in the eye of the beholder also. So if you're in Linwood, Kansas, or near Dayton, Ohio, and there were two fours at struck. You don't think was a bust at all. But if you're perhaps. Somewhat out looking for just sort of a rampant outbreak out in the warm sector of the event and that didn't materialize, or if you're chasing, you might consider it a bus from that perspective. So I heard some argue that it just depends on the perspective of who saying bust, if they're disappointed in their own own regard, or feelings about the event. Do you write to think we may have to have slightly thicker skin about things like that, because we inherently understand the uncertainties? I just don't think that right now, we do a great job of communicating that to our individual stakeholders and like you said, I have the beholder, right. That means we have to communicate that somehow to every individual in a different way. I think overall you know what I see as people expect me to tell them exactly when the storms are going to arrive. Right. And also overnight, I said, our storms would arrive between two and three AM and so this morning on getting some text messages about well, you know, they arrived at one. Forty five to block. Yup. But you know what that meant you paid attention to what I said. And you remembered that you thought they get here around two AM, and I take great solace. And you know, want to stay there for second because it is so frustrating, I think, in some ways, and I want to see if you agree with this or add to it. But in some ways, I think the meteorology is a victim of its own success is in, in that what I mean by that is we have seen advances in our ability to forecast. I mean these, these outbreaks for the most part, don't catch anyone off guard. We're not surprised at hurricane makes landfall three days out, from we when we're still talking about it out over the ocean. But I think because of that they're the segment of the society in population because they're not whether attentive or not year, all like we are don't understand that. There are sort of still finite limits to what we can and cannot say given the uncertainty in the models, given the fact that even though you have this out standing, Oklahoma. Network. We don't have that everywhere. And so the space and time the data that we really need to get these high resolution are very detailed events is just not there to tell someone that there's going to be, you know, a rain shower in the left corner of their yard over the tomato plant. It's just people sort of expect more than we can give so that what you see, I agree with you, too. And I think this is where the, the Oklahoma president has really helped us out in terms of the education side here in Oklahoma, because we can show folks, you know, maps of these, what will call spatially coherent. Things like temperature moisture and center. Right. You know that if you're, you're driving along, and you know that in southern Oklahoma, if it's eighty five and if it's eighty degrees in central Oklahoma that there's probably a nice transition, going from one to the other eighty one eighty two eighty three eighty four eighty five. Right. It's, it's just a nice field to analyze boy, rainfall on the other hand, that is a much different issue because you can get two inches in one location across the street, get nothing and then maybe down the street from there. Get five and this ability to get so many different patterns of rainfall associated with every individual event. I think it's incumbent upon us to attempt to communicate right? How these uncertainties were. We've got these amazing maps that we can use from the Mezin it to show these kinds of things, and to let people know that were likely to be much more accurate on temperature for given the pattern that we might. Be on a rainfall forecast. But here aren't expectations, right. It could be half an inch. It could be an engine a quarter and it could be anywhere in between. And so the mezzanine gives us the ability in time and space to kind of pinpoint that, but what you're saying is something I absolutely agree with data right, data underpins, everything. And we just don't have enough of it. Now, I mentioned the Linwood Kansas in Dayton, Ohio tornadoes e four's that we saw during that particular outbreak. One of the things that struck me about that particular VIN, frankly several events that I've seen this year in recent years is pretty significant events in terms of tornado and also striking very populated areas, and I want to get your thoughts on that. Well, get your thoughts on that in the midst of this question. What is what do you think is happening in our warning system? That is keeping fatalities solo thankfully, particularly in these highly populated areas that are seeing yet three f four level tornado. Ios. I am hopeful that, that is simply people more in tune with the availability of information. I know here in Oklahoma. For example, the national weather service Norman has partnered with the local billboard companies the local television folks have partnered with local billboards. So if you're out in about in the morning, you're gonna see a billboard that says severe weather possible two o'clock to four o'clock this afternoon or something like that. And I think that plants a seed of what I need to be home at that time in not out. Now. Do we still see a lot of people out and about during severe weather? Yes. But I'm hopeful that the tide has started to turn and that information delivery, whether it's via social media, or these billboards along highways or, or whatever the case may be. I know our broadcasters, do a tremendous amount of work here of the ability to have emergency managers involved in the national weather service in sort of mindset through NWS chat. And tools like that. I think really have fostered a better prepared society so far. Do I have any research that proves that? No. But I know just working with our stakeholders here on campus. For example, one thing I stopped doing his stopped using the under storm. I start using the were lightning storm and there await lightning. That's dangerous. Yes. Lightnings dangerous. And so now you have people moving at because you've used a specific hazard. And so, I think directing the hazards to the folks that are available to get the information more people have access to that information now night, I hope that we're seeing declines in Potala for that reason I wanna stay there because you just triggered something really interesting. So you found from your experience, just the word lightning storm heightened awareness more than thunderstorm. Absolutely thunderstorm here in Oklahoma. You sorta hear that term all the time. It goes in one ear and out the other, but people are aware. Enough to know that. Okay. Wait, I've heard lightning is a problem that kills that causes power outages that causes fires buildings, etc. And get a lot more response from our own athletics from campers from events center when I say lightning wiping store. It's. That's interesting. Because in a class discussion I had one time at my university. I was giving the sort of specific definition of severe weather, and I was talking about that, you know, it means a tornado or hail of certain side or gusts wins over certain mile per hour and student ask, why don't we also include whether it's going to have lightning or not, because that kills people to the why is it that implicitly included? And that's a well thunderstorm implicitly has lightning. But I think the students point was the same as your point lightning to me is probably much more likely to be threat that I'm going to counter in my life, more so than a tornado, but it she seemed to suggest that we don't sort of up play if you will the lightning threat is much Ryan. I think just stoically you know, if you look at the national weather service has historically sent out the warnings for what you just said, you know, specific criterion for, for storms based upon wind hail size tornado. But lightning has never been part of that. Discussion in terms of warning. And in addition to that, we have events on our campus where we've got inflatables, temporary facilities stages, porta-pottys you name it. And these could be problematic in forty mile an hour winds. So we're not reliant on, you know, something being the book textbook definition of severe, and we will take all of our forecasts and Taylor, it's significantly to whatever event, we have going on our campus. But I guarantee you, if I say lightning, there is a lot more of an awareness that we need to be prepared. And we need to have our plan ready than if I just mentioned. We've got a chance of thunderstorms today. And we are back on the weather geeks podcasts. I'm talking with Dr Kevin clay's from the university of Oklahoma and east. Speaking with us from the Oklahoma weather lab studios at the university of Oklahoma. I want to circle back to something that I set up before the last break, I, I mentioned in that there have been several tornadoes. This year that seemed to have really affected highly populated areas, when we think about Jefferson City, Missouri, I believe, in Dayton, Ohio, and Kansas City, Missouri. There's this mythic has been propagating out there for many years. I'm sure you've heard that tornadoes. Don't hit cities, first of all, can you talk about that, whether that myth is actually real or myth? I just establish that it was a myth. Maybe I'd kinda biased you're the conversation ear. But talk to us about this notion that people have that tornadoes don't hit big cities. And why why that's not the case. That may be a regional because in Oklahoma, it's the inverse right, and Oklahoma people. Think tornadoes only hit more. More more has been hit several times. Right. Right. So it just kind of depends on, on where you are in the country and what your experience with tornadoes? Are course tornadoes are typically very small discrete, and they occur anywhere of and because they are so small in the grand scheme of things. We're at the mercy of what they hit right? I know that if you had a vulnerable mobile home community light, we had an Oklahoma in an urban area hit. We had fatalities in, in that situation simply because of the Volmer ability of housing. If that tornado had hit, you know, maybe a mile north of that location, or a mile, south of locate that location than we don't have a Talibs in that situation. So with tornadoes it, so at the mercy of what it hits, I think sometimes as well. I think people like Walker Ashley Steven straight, or another of talked about some of the vulnerability issues that you just mentioned. We. Here in the south, where we are which we have our own little sort of max region of tornado activity. The studies are starting to show, we do have them, housing, and populations that tend to be particularly vulnerable to severe weather as well and may actually have higher levels of a tally, even for a lesser tornado event, because some of those vulnerabilities, but the Walker also talks about that, you know, one of the things atta- putting is that you're seeing the explain what he calls, the expanding bullseye in that you're right there. These discreet tornadoes that very small. So just had historically low chances of hitting sort of central business district. But as you noted places like Moore, Oklahoma and others have had repeated major hits from tornadoes, and we're, we're seeing sort of the, the sort of expansion of through suburban areas in where you live where I live until there's just more of a chance that bulls eye expand of things that have value in lives being affected being hit by tornadoes. What what are your? Thoughts overall on where we are you mentioned things like the billboards there, where you live in tornado alley and the messaging. What are your thoughts about? Just overall sort of social science of warning for severe weather. I you work with a lot of people out there like Kim colloquial and others that think about these issues that the, the warning categories, for example, that SPCA uses this notion that we might there's some people think we can actually give too much lead time onto where I think we're around fifteen minutes, now, some people worry that if we start giving an hour, that's too much time, what are your thoughts and some of those types of statements, I think those are entirely individual because there are certain sectors, and it might be hospitals assisted living centers nursing homes at cetera. That would absolutely be overjoyed at thirty forty minutes lead time warning at cetera. Then there. Going to be other folks in the community where that's not a good thing because sometimes they'll will, let's take that opportunity to run by the grocery store, real quick, or, or something like that. And so, I think it depends on the individual and I think that's where some of the brilliant minds that we've got out here Kim, and others of have really been working hard and trying to figure out. And of course, what we're learning. It's not one size. It's all, and that makes for a significant challenge for you. The broadcast meteorological community or the national weather service is how do you craft different messages for different populations? And I know everybody does the absolute best that they can with webinars with emails in, you know, things like that, that go out to various stakeholders, but I think that's a problem. We're going to be working on for a long time, because no two people on the receiving end of the information going to react, same way. And I think that is the next frontier in the weather enterprise. To some degree as good as our do polarization, radars and satellites, and models are becoming just simple understanding of what people here in how they respond, what color they reacted to the most just even your example of how they react, very different differently to lightning storm versus thunderstorm. I think that's a useful information. I want to kind of get your thoughts because again, in Oklahoma, I think this is a no brainer. I think people get watch versus one warning, but I, I have found that in other parts of the country, people really confused those two d do you find that to be the case? Or do you think that's just kind of a regional thing as well? Watch versus more they, they confuse them and they do here in Oklahoma right here in the heart of tornado alley. One of the exercises, I will do with with students, and if they're coming on tours of our national weather center, facility or something like that. Even if there is long as they're driving age. Right. The question I will typically ask is if a law enforcement. Officer gives you a warning that a good thing or a bad thing. And they're like will shoot. That's a good thing because I didn't get a ticket. And so then you can sort of go from there and say, okay, so what's the difference between a watching a warning in usually, those same folks will say, well, if there's a warning than something could happen. But if it's a watch watch out and it's like, okay that's backwards or Hainan. So it sort of calls into question, some of the verbiage that we use on Alex tin this to even the PD s that we talked about earlier, right? Particularly dangerous situation. I mean I was always taught that if you were in a tornado watch that, that's a particularly dangerous situation. A possibility of having tornadoes and any tornado is particularly dangerous. And so I don't know why we feel the need sort of the I realize they're looking for some enhanced language to, to go forward. But sometimes we get this notion, even hero, will it's. Just a tornado, which appear watch. So now we have to do something different. And, and I have to be on the education side of that, same note, we are gonna handle this tornado watch the same way, regardless of what is labeled on it, because any tornado to our campus is, is going to be dangerous situation and so trying to work through some of the technology that we have created. I think sometimes we've made it more difficult on ourselves in trying to enhance sort of the awareness. Sometimes, I think we've, we've kind of been our own worst enemy kind of like saying, it's just a Copperhead is not a black mama when you get bit near. They're, they're both pretty dangerous. Yes. Exactly. We'll enter small rattlesnake instead of a big one. Exactly. I appreciate that. You said that because I have noticed that challenge as well, sort of the, the grease of danger, there, when frankly, alternate O's are dangerous even little waterspouts can be particularly dangerous as well. If you get too close to them, I wanna use this, last five minutes or so that just pick your brain. I just think you're valued member of the weather enterprise, and someone that just has a lot of thoughts on things. So as in this last five minutes, what, what are, what are some of the things that just keep you up at night, as you survey, the landscape of the weather enterprise, where we're going and forecasting ability warnings communication messaging. I mean, what are just some of the key things that I mean, you've got a platform of people listening to this all over the country, and perhaps, even all of the world what, what bothers keeps Kevin Claes left about the weather enterprise. I think what bothers me is ultimately the earth wins and what I need is, you know, whether you're dealing. With volcanoes earthquakes hurricanes tornadoes, other windstorms he'd drought. It's cetera. This planet provides a tremendous number of hazards and just kind of going around. I see that we've taken steps in some areas to prepare ourselves against those hazards. For example, the seatbelt issue right with vehicles. Everybody's got seatbelts, you're mandated to wear seat belts. And so you're mitigating against a risk that you don't knows a happen, right? There may be some folks out there listening to never been in auto accident. But if they are the seat belt could save their life. I think from the standpoint of natural phenomena. We need to do the same thing, right? We do not build our homes. Well, we build them invulnerable places. We put them on coastlines. We have homes out in here in the plains, that don't have, you know, tornado Sates. Faces to go to and we have to figure out a way to build our environment against the hazards that we will all alternately face an until then were still gonna have large numbers of vitality in in these natural disasters. So I think more of, of an education. I think I mean, we don't even really see, for example, second grade fourth grade eighth grade, weather's in the curriculum, but we talk about temperature. We talk about rainfall in, I realize those things are important. I think we need to begin transitioning are geoscience education, particularly early grades to what to do in disasters. Right. What are the hazards, and what are the things you can do about them rather than being focused so much on content with respect to curriculum in checking box. Let's provide some relevance in some value. And I think until we do that across our education landscape. I think were were still not in a make. So much progress. I agree with you there. I mean I you know, as someone has young kids that have gone through the system education system recently, I'm excited that whether is in the curriculum at various grades. But you're right. It's, it's chole front warm front, the three types of cloud, which are important. But you're right. I think there can be a bit more of a plied focus in a have to, to be. I have reviewed some recent curricula in standards that are trying to integrate that in more. But I think we have a long way to go within by the way. Dr Claes's not someone that is speaking, casually on sort of geoscience education. One of my first experiences, exposures, Dr Claes at Florida State University, I believe you were director of the Florida explores program or something like that. That was of Eric. Paul rusher. Shout out the doctor Ruchir out there in, in Oregon. And this was an amazing program that was trying to do just that. Get get geoscience or meteorological, and climate information to a broader segment. So I, I see you're still thinking about those things. I think I will always be thinking about those things. And, and what that says, is that over a multi decade career that I need to work a little bit harder. Right. Because we still need to make a lot more progress in that net area. I think we're going to have to draw closer, but before we do Kevin, where can people find you in social media? If they've really enjoyed what they've heard from you today and just want to kind of follow you sure, I am Texas embassy on Twitter. And of course, that goes all the way back to my university of Texas, Longhorn heritage and being that Longhorn on campus here at the university of Oklahoma for twenty years, so Texas embassy on Twitter. You can also find me by searching on my name on Facebook so unhappy to interact with anybody who might have questions or questions on occasion, curriculum event, safety of the new four zero four a rule in the major league baseball rulebook which looks to allow teams to create severe weather. Lands that some progress in that regard. So any all, I'm happy to hear from you. And that's where we have to end today. I'm Dr Marshall shepherd from the university of Georgia. Thank you for joining. It's kevin. Absolutely. My pleasure and continue to join us on the weather geeks podcast. We really appreciate you listening. And we hope you'll spread the word. Subscribe on on your favorite podcast for men. Join us again. Next time on the weather Deeks podcasts.

Oklahoma university of Oklahoma Dr Kevin Claes Dr Marshall shepherd Kevin Twitter director Weather Channel Oakland university of Oklahoma Dayton university of Georgia Ohio Florida State University football Oklahoma climatological survey Oklahoma water Resources Board soccer university of Texas US Missouri
Why isnt racism in Economics 101?

Marketplace with Kai Ryssdal

25:53 min | 10 months ago

Why isnt racism in Economics 101?

"Hey how you feel in I mean seriously. A little stressed. Yeah I hear you. From American public media. This is marketplace. In Los Angeles I'm Kai Ryssdal Thursday David, the twenty fifth of June, good as always stabby along everybody and look these are stressful times for a whole lot of reasons, and we're all feeling it in one way or another lettuce state that as a given. These are also stressful times, though for this economy, also for a whole lot of reasons which I mentioned as way to set the table for the Federal Reserve's news today, the federal released the results of its latest round of stress tests this afternoon. How this country's biggest banks might? Or might not I suppose weather. Tough Economic Times. Now! Yes I do appreciate the irony here, because as noted above, we are basically living in a stress test. Of Note, though from the feds results announcement today remember these tests are about making sure. Banks have enough cash on hand to get through times like now. Banks are not going to be allowed to do stock buybacks in the third quarter. They are they going to be allowed to keep on paying dividends just not increasing them. As to the tests themselves marketplace's Nancy, more guns are explains how they were. This. Trust has started in two thousand thirteen after the financial crisis, so the Fed could keep better tabs on the health of banks. The Fed says to the banks look. We want to know how you would handle. Say Jump in unemployment or a drop in economic output GDP. This was a way for the bank to kind of do an annual checkup the way you would go to a physician Danielle de Martino booth is a former fed adviser who now heads Quilt Intelligence and And see how strong the bank's balance sheets would be under certain types of scenarios of differing levels of stress. Balance Sheets are one of a banks vital signs, basically a list of its assets like loans. It's made and liabilities deposits from customers who expect their money to be there if they need it, the bank does the stress test underfed supervision Catherine Dominguez. It's an economist at the University of Michigan at the very time consuming process because you've got to figure out how. How every single asset and liability is likely to be affected by this scenario, the Fed dreams up different scenario for each year stress test. It created this year's version back in February it imagined unemployment rate of ten percent. Then the pandemic hit the US Stephen Cicchetti is an economist at the Brandeis International Business School. The unemployment rate has already gone over fourteen percent, which is four percentage points higher than the assumed worst point in the stress test and GDP is expected to. To fall more than the Fed imagine back in February, so the Fed created an extra test looking at how banks would whether a sluggish recovery, a double dip recession or a quick return to normal I'm Nancy Marshall Genzer for marketplace today's corona virus news other than most of the numbers going in completely the wrong direction is brought to us by the Commonwealth of Virginia, health and Safety Board, which is set to become the first to create workplace safety requirements for this pandemic. Perchance are thinking. Wait doesn't Osha the federal occupational. Safety and Health Administration already do that guy. The answer is Kinda. Not really from the Workplace Culture Desk Marketplace's Megan McCarthy Carino has more on that one. Almost four months into a deadly pandemic Virginia Attorney Jason You rashes with the legal justice. Center says he's still hearing from frightened workers that their employers aren't doing enough to keep them safe. Folks are saying look. There's a lack of social distancing no requirements for mass, no P P in fear retaliation. If they bring something up, your ashes represents many low income poultry workers hundreds of whom have contracted Cova. Nineteen in the state. He petitioned Virginia to create these new emergency safety rules which are still being finalized, but will likely include mandates around social distancing disinfection and notification to workers about likely exposures. Punishable by fines, businesses don't comply the key. Here is worse ability which is what has been missing from similar Federal Osha guidelines because the agency's still hasn't adopted legally binding standards for how businesses must deal with Cova nineteen as it has for hazardous chemicals or bloodborne diseases. It's merely offered. Recommendation Says David Michaels, who headed Osha during the Obama administration or should have enforced very much could essentially said you have to follow current existing notion rules, those pretty weak, and they're very vague under his leadership Osha had been drafting set of enforceable standards for Airborne Infectious Diseases, but that process was halted when president trump took office. Nicole Riley the Virginia State Director. Director for the National Federation of Independent Businesses says her members need some leeway to individualize their responses to a threat that has been constantly evolving and says the state's new rules are too prescriptive. You know they're trying to apply. Sort of a one size fits all approach, and they already have the authority to be able to go after bad actors, federal law does require employers to provide a workplace free from recognized hazards, so even in the absence of covert specific standards, the agency could find employers who fail in that duty, but during the pandemic Osha has issued only one citation to an employer despite thousands of complaints. I Megan McCarthy Carino marketplace. Speaking of which molly would neither did a segment on our podcast with former head of Osha about what that agency could be doing right now and isn't. The podcast is called. Make me smart available. Pretty much everywhere actually checkout. Okay couple of data points of which you should be aware before we proceed first of all the growth or not growth of this economy. In the first quarter, the revised number came out this morning for January through March which seems. Oh so long ago. A five percent contraction, and all the goods and services that we produce that is in line with guesses, and of course will seem great once the second quarter numbers eventually come out item to and related today being Thursday. We got the latest numbers on first time claims for unemployment, another million and a half people applying for benefits for the first time, which starts to sound normal, the longer it goes on, but trust me is very much not. On Wall Street on this somehow not quite yet, Friday! Look. Nothing makes sense anymore, right. We'll have the details when we do the numbers. Academic Economics has been much in the spotlight the past month or so specifically how terrible its track record is on race and here's just one data point there are lots we could pull out here, according to the American Economic Association only three percent of the economics. Awarded in two thousand sixteen went to black people, so there is renewed attention being paid to how to remedy that and one of the ways that is being talked about is to start at the beginning for close to the beginning of the academic economics line courses in Econ one. Oh, one, so that as students are introduced to the discipline. They learn how race fits. In Gary Hoover is the chair of the Economics Department at the University of Oklahoma. We have called them up to talk about this Professor Hoover Welcome to the program Sir. Well, thank you. So when you stand up there in ECON, one first data semester whether this virtual or in person who knows. What is your? Thought Process on. Getting race into this conversation. Well I I. Think I need to build up the fundamentals. First we have to do the more mundane things and talk about tae where the supply equal demand. What does marginal main? And once we learn all of these tools. It's then time to think about okay. Let's actually apply them to circumstances that you see every day. Yeah, what does it look like? What's The lightbulb moment? When late in the semester, UCLA, okay, apply these theories. You've learned to the facts of reality in this economy. What does that look like? What are they say to you? Well one of the things we do is we talk about income inequality, and so as I'm talking about income inequality, I'm talking about the things that are going to separate people on the income distribution, and so we're going to talk about education and say hey are. Let's take a look at that. After we've identified all of the other easily. Found factors say well well. There's still a difference here what's going on? And then some people will say well. You know what you haven't mentioned this gender good point. And, then I let them come to the conclusion themselves and they're like well, you know. Another thing missing is race a now. We've got something to talk about. And we entered the discussion that they bring it up themselves, so that means they're ready to talk about it. I don't know if you know who bill sprague's is. He's a professor of economics at Howard. He's the chief economist at the AFL CIO them on the program yeah. I imagined. Okay, okay, right so anyway, so I asked him When he went in his career, he realized that that economics the study of economics and how it's taught in schools is fundamentally racist. Because he had written a whole long white paper that we asked him about, and he said very first day of my first economics class. Does that ring true for you? Absolutely, what we expect in economics is that everyone will be the rational man, and so therefore racism would work against people's best interests therefore doesn't exist. Discrimination Works Against People's own pockets. Therefore these anomalies that you claim to see they're out there. And that just seems. Insane. It is, but it's just much easier not to talk about it and deal with the issue as it really exist. Can we talk about the students for minute? You're in Oklahoma now. You have done time at the University of Alabama earlier in your career. What do you make of? How ready students are to hear what you are trying to teach them? It's been interesting to me in that. In both places, I've found that students will bring the topic up. They've already hurt things at the dinner table sitting around with mom and Dad I'm here at college now. What what does economics have to bring to the table? And for the most part? We've said nothing. And that's been one of the greater disappointment. I also think that. Some of my my white colleagues have been hesitant to say anything about it. The fear of offending right, and so the easiest way to do it is to say well. Let's leave it to Gary. Talk about it. He is you know black economists, and so maybe it'll sound better coming from him. But. The fact still exist whether you're saying that I'm saying. D think. Having these conversations will help more students. More black students specifically stay. In your field. It has to one of the things that attracted me to this field so rowing up. My mother was the hardest working person I had ever seen and she said. Hey, you know what if you just worked hard? You're going to get ahead in life. And that never happened for us. We always were struggling and so I wondered about that and I wondered. Can Economics helped me understand why it is that just working hard wasn't enough. Economics brought me to where I am. And I think that it can do even more and people have those questions coming especially people of Color. They want to be able to use economics. Gary Hoover. Is the chairman of the Department at the University of Oklahoma Fester Hoover. Thanks for your time Sir. I do appreciate. I think you. Get another months worth of data on consumer spending the commerce. Department tomorrow morning and other look in other words, and how the corona virus has changed the way people spend money in this economy. But there is about how people are. Well about how people are acquiring, let's say goods and services right now that those numbers aren't GonNa. Tell Ya. And I say acquiring because there's a bunch of stuff. People aren't buying or selling, but trading for in some the online bartering groups that have popped up over the past couple of months. It's an old way of doing business being done in a new way, it's also the subject of this next installment of our series Mike Connie. My name is Veronica Kuehn and I live in Henderson Nevada. Back in March I had gotten a phone call from my son that we needed to go pick him up from college, and on the way down to California picking him up we. I noticed on my facebook. That I had friends that we're looking for things like they were already running out of things in the store they couldn't find baby wipes and diapers, toilet, paper, and things like that, and so as we're driving into California. I was talking to my husband about it and. I was like I. Don't know how to get people together. To help them out like I have friends on my facebook page, but they're not friends with each other. So the next morning on Sunday morning when I got up, I started started. facebook group and invited a lot of these friends that had teams and a lot of friends who didn't have things and that they would get together and be able to. Help each other out, and before I knew it within twenty four hours. We had a thousand people on the group. It was really overwhelming. Really fast I didn't honestly never expect to is because what it was? In the beginning there were more trades and turn donations. A lot of people just like I'm looking for rice and people will be like. Why have rice well? What do you want in return? I don't need anything in return you know. I'm going to the store and I found this extra lysol. This is what I paid for it. If you just give me what I paid for it and I'll show receive you can have. We had like families that just moved into town with nothing and fifteen or twenty people would go up on there and comment that they had step for them clothes furniture. You know all kinds of things it just it has gone beyond just the food and the basics that people needed. We did have one person up there. It was like I have pasta if you have wine. I didn't like you can't. You can't trade alcohol in the group so I now have ten admin and moderators to help me out. When the governor locked down when our lockdown started I lost my job. My husband hours got cut and it was super stressful. I've been out several times. When all this is over you going to close the group. Get I. Don't think I will because it continues to help, there's people out there. That don't have food that don't have clothes. And they feel safe. The group being able to ask and get the help without being judged because we don't allow that. Even without a pandemic. That's important to have. Veronica Kuehn. And Henderson Nevada you can tell us about your economy. At marketplace dot. com. You look for things that have changed in your life and they're kind of like. Your Life Raft. I personally was a devotee of general hospital, but first. Let's do the numbers. Dow Industrial's up two hundred ninety nine points today, one point one percent, twenty, five, seven, forty, five Nasdaq up one hundred and seven points about one percent, ten thousand seventeen S. and P. Five hundred rose thirty three point, one percent, three, thousand and eighty three toge enough to make sense in. Disney announced, postponing the mid July scheduled reopening of Disneyland here in Southern California meanwhile in Florida. We're virus. Cases are also rising the magic kingdom and Epcot or still on track to open mid July just in time to host the NBA's returned to action, one imagines Disney shares down six tenths of one percent today bonds unchanged. You'll the tenure zero point six eight percent. You're listening to marketplace. This is marketplace. I'm Kai Ryssdal. There are going to be of course a lot of economic legacies of this pandemic structural corporates personal also alcohol. Since the quarantine started. Some states have led bars and restaurants sell alcoholic drinks to go in New York just now, really starting to open up. That rule is set to expire this weekend. Other cities and states that were considering extending their rules that have held restaurants and bars, an industry that's lost about four million jobs since the pandemic hit marketplace's Kristen Schwab dug into this new revenue stream for them. These days there are only a few ways to pretend like. I'm on vacation. Are you Margaritas to go? My local Taco shop in Brooklyn has a cash register right at the door and outcomes, an icy, cold Margarita in a clear Plastic Cup with a lid and a straw. To be clear. It's not legal to drink on the street here also to be clear to my boss, the Margaritas in my fridge, waiting for me to get off work, but that drink and the concept happy hour to go is what's keeping a lot of restaurants and especially bars alive is the atomic unit broker business situation Joshua Stilman, the CO founder of threes, brewing and Brooklyn a lot of their business relies on sales at their to bars, but also on selling draft beer to other bars. When the pandemic hit, we want a lot of beer down the drain, but we also. Is Much in the packaging calendars recruit? The brewery built an online ordering site in three days and was able to bring back sixty percent of its staff. These kinds of rehiring numbers have driven more than thirty states to create takeout drink laws says Mike Watt Lee at the National Restaurant Association. You're seeing certain states are talk about it from a permanent perspective. He says the industry had been pushing for this even before covid nineteen because takeout and delivery have become a bigger part of the equation and alcohol has high profit margins. But it's not easy to pivot to take out. Only Kylie North owns a cocktail bar called water bear with her wife in Boise Idaho. They had to buy equipment to can their fizzy drinks. The also had to create a menu that works for to go orders. There's only going to be a few drinks. That actually tastes good enough to put our brand sticker on it. She says post. Post Covid, takeout sales are bringing in fifth of what the Barmaid on a normal night, not ideal but enough to bring back half the staff. It's not just coming in and cleaning. It's getting to use that creative side and be a bartender, and with Idaho's cases of corona virus, rising north is looking to make to go drinks a bigger and possibly more permanent piece of her business. I'm Christian. Schwab for Marketplace A. Soap opera fans are a dedicated locked to wit, the young and the restless. It's been on the air for almost fifty years. That's half a century of secret lovers and suspicious murders. Production has been shut down of course because of the pandemic, but get this. It's reruns. reruns continued to dominate the ratings Margaret. Jasmine Guard has the economics of the daytime soaps. Elisabeth Douglas remembers watching the very first episodes of the young and the restless. March twenty six, seventy, three. There were already over a dozen American soaps on. TV But this one was different to Dalglish. Who is in her twenties back then the characters seemed electrifying and well young couldn't stand. The thought of him being happy with someone else. So you picked him up at the airport. And you drove that car off the cliff. Douglas it provided kind of escape from her own reality stuck in an unhappy marriage at a time when divorce was still taboo I figured I could grab a half hour. You know It was difficult, but I've never missed a show yet. The young and the restless recently got renewed through twenty twenty four, but like with all soap operas ratings have been going down for decades some iconic shows. Shows like all. My children were canceled after poor ratings Robert, Thompson teaches pop culture at Syracuse University. There's a complex calculus. If you could get more viewers for a cheaper show like Dr Phil or Ellen, degeneres or a Kelly and Ryan or a view or any of these eventually I think the cost benefit of continuing this venerable old genre begins to look a lot less attractive, but a soap is still cheaper to produce then prime. Prime time dramas. The actors make much less. The sets aren't as ornate soapstone tape on location and another major asset, the audience that is extremely loyal to the brand. Consider this covid nineteen shutdown Hollywood productions, the only daytime drama that had enough episodes in the can to keep airing new material was NBC's the days of our lives, and yet the young and the restless reruns keep getting higher ratings with about two million viewers a day. Day, Kelly call is the president of CBS entertainment. He says that's the kind of loyalty. Advertisers are interested in. It's a very easy sale for advertisers. It's an engaged audience. It's a loyal audience, and most also do watch live, so it does kind of a temporal quality that advertisers are looking for viewers like Dalglish. She says she's kept watching reruns through the pandemic. You know I mean when you're all world is suddenly thrown into upheaval. Look for things that haven't changed in your life and they're kind of like. Your Life Raft, she's often turn to the young and the restless to get her through rough times, and though the topics might function my life. They were played out my beautiful people in a beautiful place. most of them rich, not all of them. It was just an escape that one half hour for myself. Every day same channel same time. I'm Jasmine Guards for marketplace. This final note on the way out today which will resonate I believe with any parent who spent time chasing their kid or kids around to chucky cheese. Its parent company declared bankruptcy this morning, a legacy, yes of the pandemic, but also of the debt piled on a private equity buyout back in two thousand, fourteen I personally, and perhaps obviously was never a fan of the chaos of our local chucky cheese. My kids protestations notwithstanding molly widow assures me. Their pizza is pretty good. They're going to keep operating by the way while they're in bankruptcy proceedings. All Right? We gotta go, but not without a moment of economic context for this Thursday. Harkening back to those first time claims numbers. We got this morning. Here is an indicator from the Department of Labor. The other day of how much help this economy needs right now. The data table in question is titled Persons Claiming. Ui Benefits in all programs that's unemployment, insurance benefits and all programs, the number as of June sixth thirty point, five, million, thirty and a half. Million people in this economy are getting some kind of unemployment assistance. Amir Bali Shimon Brett John Buckley. Eve Epstein John Gordon Cad Green Rick Car and Betsy streisand are the marketplace editing staff I'm Kai Ryssdal. We will see you tomorrow. This is, APM.

Federal Reserve Kai Ryssdal Gary Hoover Nancy Marshall Genzer David Michaels Osha Veronica Kuehn University of Oklahoma Dalglish Virginia Tough Economic Times University of Michigan US Danielle de Martino Henderson Nevada facebook Brandeis International Busines president Catherine Dominguez
1571 Dr. Robert Mongrain on Intraoral Scanners & Digital Dental Workflows : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1:12:32 hr | 2 months ago

1571 Dr. Robert Mongrain on Intraoral Scanners & Digital Dental Workflows : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

"Love howard's podcast. Meet seventeen townie choice. Award winner jay geier on his very own podcast every month. Jay reveals cutting edge practice. Growth secrets that you won't wanna miss subscribe at podcast for doctors dot com Just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing dr robert mcgrane. Dm d at one thousand nine hundred seventy nine graduate of the university of florida college of dentistry. He currently practices part time and tulsa oklahoma and is a director of clinical advocacy for heartland dental digital clinton technologies scanners labs. He's a consultant of the university of oklahoma college of dentistry. He has spoken and published internationally on restorative preventative dentistry and technology. He has worked with a number dental. Companies and bio materials and technologies including three m dense fly serono thence laycock premier dental. I've eclair viva dan. E forty plan. Mecca patterson dental shine. He's a member of the ada the gd. And i wanted to bring you on the show. I asked you to come on. You didn't ask me. Because i don't know who would know more about oral scanning dental labs in dentistry than you because number one you deserve a really smart guy knows a lot about that. You're in charge of hundreds of locate. How many how many dennis are you working with. That are using an oral scan in a lab. You're getting data points from about about seventeen hundred right now. Wow thousand seven hundred and we have about thirteen hundred fourteen hundred scanners in-service and doing on with done almost two million scans since we started our initiative. Sociale seventeen hundred dentists. Yeah and yours. Thirteen hundred scanners with thirteen hundred scanners. Who have done Have taken on over two million scans. Yes sir. I got cut this show short because i i know another guy. He's done a seventeen hundred and eighty dennis with thirteen hundred and ninety scans and just i mean nobody. Nobody is working with seventeen hundred s thirteen with who owned thirteen. Hundred scanners have taken two million scans and thanks for coming on the show and talking about it while you're welcome because i do believe that you know we a lot of data's think will i don't have to really cut a great crap and take great impressive. I just get an oral scanner. The oral scanner will so my first question to you is if i must see d. Dennis does an oral scanner. Make me be a minus dennis. Are you still have to be an aid. Dennis and the scanners. Just i mean. Does it make you better. Well it makes you better if you make your preps better and you look at them if you look at the and you're gonna go. Yeah that's not so great and so the difference between that and an impression is that you look at that little impression and you got Don't make it work on the scanner. Though you look at it and it's thirty to sixty times you're on the screen you go like thought. That was a good prep. So yeah it's gonna make you a better dentist. i really will. So is it a return on investment. You know we chris when you're gonna invest tens of millions of dollars. We did a lot of data crunching. And that's i think powered one of the things that i'm passionate about is i worked with. I was a slunk. Aol i mean you know not big time circuit but i'll have our opinions and we make things work and as a younger dentist in particular or when i was in private practice. I worried like i see them doing those amazing things on the screen. I don't know if i can and you can. Because everything i talk about. We've done it as you know. And i have the data for every single thing that we might say. I have the data so the answer is yes. The return on investment is phenomenal and under one condition. And that is you take out of the corner and you put it in the opportunity. It's yes that's the key but if you do that it's a huge win. I mean you're you're talking about some of our doctors who jumped on board. You know when we did. I did this. They generated enough revenue the first week so pay for the scanner. Not everybody did that. But i don't think you can afford not to have a scanner or not expensive to own their expensive not to own and that's just data. That's not my enthusiasm. Because i love scanners is the data that we have. Well i think all that is can agree that a fastest way to increase your quality is just to be able to see better starts with loops guy. I got to school. It was two and a half and then it goes up to minor now. Three point eight into donna's that scope hanging on the ceiling from You know the The one in saint louis or germany i mean zeiss. They're only four to eight x. But the honest i know they don't work through. But before they go to operate they pull over the scope and and was like. Oh my god. There's a miss canal or oh look at all. The sleds still not deal. But just i remember when i did my first scan. It was actually with the iraq machine. And i saw my prep thirty forty times larger and i almost change ranger stevie wonder i thought you know i mean he could have made a better happen. I'm seeing it that large. Oh my god and then he started changing burs with in flat. You know all kinds of different burs. He's trying to make it. Look pretty at thirty axe. So mangga vacation. Would you agree that they fundamental technology here is that it's magnification and this sapien. Dennis can see what he's doing better. I think that's really really important. Howard but the other aspect of that is that it allows you to change on the fly so in other words you saw that crap. You do that perhaps go. I thought that was good. But i can go back and get it right and i that on a regular basis go back and get it better right then right there and then it creates a beautiful restoration and that doesn't have to be remade. Isn't going break in seats beautifully. The whole process for dentists. There's nothing worse than than doing a prep and sending it to the lab. And then you go and you go to seed it and the patient goes you know it doesn't work and you grind on it. I've had patients come and say oh you know that other dentists didn't know what they were doing because they had to grind on my ground before they could smell and of course that's happened to me however it would. It's that's the difference. Is that if you do it right. The restorations really. Do drop into place knots a journey. You know it's just like anything else. You'd have skills you have to achieve is not rocket science though cash. If you can do mandibular block if you can get a halfway decent shampoo for you can you can learn how to have predictability with an inch oral scanner so my brands are everything. I mean there's a lot of big brands i mean. Three shape has a scanner Invis- line align technology has the tarot Do you have one. I mean hartland. I'm sure is looking at us saying come on bob. Which one's the best do you have a preferred brand. You like them all. I know you see them all and work with them all. I had the opportunity to test. And when i say not. Just try but we do. Trials serious trials with every scanner. That's available in the us. Market that is widely available. I should say and so and you know we. We test them in. A variety of levels is the software. Good outs. What's the training like. Is the support good. And i can tell you from a scientific perspective pretty much every scanner that's available a little one part works really really well. I mean the science is good. They're all a little different My two i actually utilize in office of both the trio's in the eye terrible and there are other good scanners out there. The one that heartland shows to go with was the barrel. And it was. It's neck and neck between the two of those but the key issue that moved us all right besides support and the company at the product is also embezzling scanning so that was a big part of your heartland were very big into invis- align and Occlusive disease caring for patients. That way so that was a big determining factor and by the way you just said occlusive disease you know. Most people think dentistry is a cavity disease but the third ones occlusive disease. I have found it very interesting. That align technology which owns invis- line scanners. They take the they've got dade on. I mean hell you have data on two million scans probably update on a hundred million. Scans that they think that they will be able to get a measurement on a louise from these Stan's just like we take bite wings and we can see a cavity that the aclu scant that these Aclu scans and and cbc tease will diagnose occlusive disease sooner rather than later. Are you hearing that. Do you believe that you know we've been working on one of the things i'm passionate about is what i call the digital platform. So you know you have a scanner over year a cnbc over here. You know images the here and there and what's happening now in particularly with the extra cad purchase that align Did last last year in the midst of the pandemic our working in partnering with them to to begin to create this connectivity between all of the different pieces and so the answer is yes you know from an earlier perspective. What we can do today is with the tarot scanner you just use it closed clarence tool. We call it the the The yeah. I just went blank. It looks a clue. Graham is just a heat map of where the inclusion s and you can see where those functional nonfunctional costs are a contacting. The thing we don't have yet is the ability to see where the kondile dials are. So i'm a true dental perspective. You know that's not there yet. But i don't think we're that far from that from the perspective of the patient who comes in and says you know my my teeth or chipping on the edges. And this that. I can show them on the scanner and not just the tarot scanner but others as well where the teeth or fitting and give them some idea of where they oughta fit and why. They're having some of the problems that they're having. So yeah we we're we're all into. We're talking about moving. Teeth were all about Not just you know. Do they look straight but do they fit together correctly and was it. Rip to three m's true deaf scanner over. And and why do you. Why do you think it is. I mean to me was was the powder. Why do you think it's over for r.i.p to the three deaf scanner. Same thing it was the powder no matter how you slice it or dice. I did at one point. I held the record for the most clinical scans. It didn't last long but in early testing. And i just never could get over that outer you know. That's why the serik that they moved on everybody moved on from powder and is just a technique sensitivity. So that's why just basically not. That was the key. It's an wonderfully accurate scanner when you put out or on the teeth. It scanned very quickly. But you you had to put on the teeth. So why did three shape not yet. Your business was mostly because it didn't have the clear a liner with invis- line or was there something else anything else to it in my purse in my world. it was about the invisible line. So we there. Was you know. They had their harper Whatever communications and so they envisage line. Excuse me align eliminated the ability to Submit and byzantine scans through the trail scanner. So that was a game changer. For us in that we needed that capability and it's it's i maintain multiple platforms of scanners in my office along with testing. And you really. It's hard to maintain expertise in more than one platform so we founded best at even though the trails is a great restarted scanner We found it best to maintain just a single platform in our in our office. So the eye tarot scanner. You talked about that. That's your main scanner. And you were. Your main software with hartland is dietrich's right. Detriment is that says it ascend is we have not gone to the cloud. You you haven't gotten the cloud so does when you're buying interest scanner. Does your practice manager software. Like in your shape denture You said when you evaluate these scanners are you look at software support occlusive disease. Clear liners Was the functionality denture. Ix a plosser was out of a big factor that was one of the things we had conversations that didn't exist when we first started it and because we are heartland we went to everybody inside. Wouldn't it be nice and we helped everybody collaborate to get that done so We were very excited about that. You know the ability to launch a scan from the detrick software And and to be able to keep track of everything having it right back to entrance we would like to do more with that. And i think that will probably be waiting until the would get to the ascend because we can see that. The the days of trix are gradually going to go away And so you know we. We anticipate to build our future with a cloud based software. So what do you mean your days with. Dentures are limited. The when i say the days with trix let me say that a different way. The days of the the Workstation in the office are where your software and everything resides or number trix is. It's great software committed to it but at some point in time we'll we'll move to the ascend or a competitive just doesn't make sense. I mean you go through something. That's craz- your little subway. And you're seeing this subway manager having to install a firewall and a computer. And all this and it just leaves them blind open to hackers and all that kind of seven. Everybody that works at a mcdonald's or a subway or a chain of thousand anything should all have dummy terminals to the cloud. The the the questions will you're in oklahoma. That's not necessarily beverly hills or manhattan is internet speed good enough for the cloud. In your opinion i mean. Do you think you could have cloud based system right now in oklahoma. We're we're yeah. You're in a broken arrow. We have fiber. We have fiber right to our office. Most of the metro areas have had fiber to the commercial areas. That's available. So i think so i think. I don't think we'll see a problem with that. I think really. It's a matter of of maturing the software the platform so that it's ready to go to scale and so that is part of it is like in a single office. Making a change can be expensive and painful but when you have an enterprise has well over a thousand offices. Those changes come a little bit more slowly. I do know that you know we. We are testing different things I actually don't know the current state of that but we are testing different things. But it's going to take time for us to make that you know we. We have to plan really carefully. We if we don't do the right thing it's it's going to be costly but the good news if you're watching what we're doing. It'll probably be a very good choice. If not the right choice to make when we finally choose that you know lots of things come out. Every dentist knows in the back room by the time he retired. Your room has a little museum sanctuary. I'm sure you. I you know we've all got i mean god i mean it just crazy and by the way you want to buy crazy stuff like that. Go to towns. I free classified ads. There's always about five thousand ads and there's all kinds of selling stuff they bought for fifty thousand and now it's been a piece of furniture but When x rays came out when delta dental insurance came out for the longshoremen's club after four to about nineteen forty eight in washington oregon the covered xrays at one hundred percent and that was when the domino of every dental office. Buying an x-ray machine. I mean rent can had been dead for a long time and dennis weren't looking at it. But when insurance covered at one hundred percent everybody about x ray machine digital x rays came out. and there's no change in insurance incentive but man it took off everybody got it practice management software. We were talking about dead trix. Eagles soft opened. And all but cure site milling with a cad cam. I mean i'm not seeing any data points. This really got more than twelve percent of the market for last thirty years. So cure site milling Is in your thousand dental offices that you're working with is taking off. I mean like the original serach like rescan and mill or is it now really just going to go from scanning and then sending it to the lab. I work with a lot of doctors. And i do support all of our platforms so every version of scanner that we have an every chair side millions system that we have. I don't have an exact number number for you right now but somewhere between thirty five and forty five of our offices out at eleven hundred and plus are actively knowing what i know and what from being being a chair side miller for many years that the doctors who are passionate about it do an amazing job and they continue to be passionate and i support them in that and we upgrade their equipment and make sure they have what they need. Most of the doctors that i talked to they they say they say. I don't want to be a lab tech. And you know with the technology today. When i did when i was in e four d Programs you know. I would compare the price of The cost of doing the e forty restoration. It will be the same with the sarah to one hundred and sixty dollar. Pfm crown which was the the price point at that point at that time today. What we're talking about his crowns. You can get them. You know seventy eighty ninety loss of restorations under one hundred dollars at are probably pretty well done. Many of the restorations are milled on. Four hundred and twenty thousand dollar million units and these mailings centers and they are good restorations and so so it's harder to justify the economics of it. I'm not against it. I did thousands of those. I had several sarah Systems forty but you have to be passionate about it in is it is a valuable service. I just don't see that's going. Yeah i want to do that. I wanna learn how to do all those things and teach my team so our doctors are much prefer to be able to scan and have the lab get back you know in five to seven days. I really well fitting restoration. So why so Why do you think cher's milling. I mean to me. It never made sense. I mean i'm here. I am for thirty two years in the same dental office. And i fell in love with emperor gum early. She was my first lover. And you just take a quarter per game you send it to a lab guy down the street. He's he's made like thirty thousand crowns and then your idea is. Hey i got an idea. Let's replace that with one hundred and forty thousand dollars. Cad cam machine and then we're going to teacher assistant who's never made one and we're going to send her to a bunch of expensive courses in scottsdale and she's going to be your new crown maker. I'm like is there anything with that argument. is it all just. I mean i mean the arguments that makes sense. I mean lab. People should be doing labs. Dennis should be doing dentistry. I don't understand it and the thirty five of your dentist that do use it there. They just love lab work. There was always that guy in every dental school class. That would never leave the lab. They just love lab. Work is how signs for doing. I haven't had a lot of contact with some lately. I think they're they're holding their own. But you know the the surrounding the dense by team has really done. If you like share side milling. I have to say that the prime can out is is really a really great scanner. We have also tested that for not for chair. Side milling but for israel scanning are still a little bit oriented towards the chair side. Mailing soccer wise but it is a argh anomaly. It's a little bit challenging Because of the weight of the of that that processor in the back end scans really quickly and very accurately so You know. I think he d with plan mecca. They kind of got stripped into this bigger company. That wasn't as Focused on their side milling. As for the that's all they did They're kind of just there in the market. I don't see them being a big player currently but then you know again what what you said is so important. Is that chair. Side milling is not going to take over. It's going to be a part of the market. The beauty of dentistry is that we can practice in a lot of different ways. Some of which makes sense and some of which don't dentistry is profitable enough that if we if we have a passion for it we can do it that way so i support doctors. You know in our company. You'd be surprised the different styles of practices that we have the different ashes of doctors that we have and and they can be successful. If if there if you're passionate so i think that's it like you said there's people that love doing that love controlling the process being able to nil certain types of restorations inlays on lays funky shapes. Those new still work really well with with chair side knowing. But if you're going to do just everyday crowns. Every day is not the right word but just more typical crown perhaps and singles and doubles. I think i think sending it to the lab is particularly with the scanner is still the most economically. It's absolutely the most economic economically productive way to do it. And what are you paying for an eye tarot into earls scanner. And how do you calculate the return on investment for it versus save denison us emperor gum. Well we did a lot of tests. We we obviously work with significant discounts. And so we don't pay retail But even with our Ability to purchase out impression materials at a significant discount as well as The scanner itself at a significant discount. We calculated In in our initial process of actually taking are real numbers and you know the difference between being in practice and with with a situation. I'm in. I have people that that's all they do. I just have analysts. And they say okay. Well we might spend thirty forty million dollars on this. Let's put the analyst on it so we figured about eighteen dollars a unit savings Scanning instead of taking impression and that's to at least two parts it's not time or anything but it's the materials to take the impression and the shipping because shipping is cost and so and then you save three days time because it arise. The scanner is in the lab inside of four minutes and they can be processing. We're working a group. My lab connect out a new software. That we're i get feedback on my scan inside four minutes to tell they tell me it looks good even using artificial artificial intelligence to do the first the first on that so it's really about that's not eighteen dollars a case since what we figured out in our early studies so the eighteen dollars from savings from materials impression materials and shipping heard costs and plus three days plus three days. Unless unless you're unless you're case gets bumped off of a truck because people bought too much flour on amazon and they had to get the essential supplies to to them. Because we you probably experienced a we had challenges with our labs dentistry was not considered essential during the shutdown times Flaw sugar was more essential so some of our cases were delayed because of that and so And the other thing. Howard the One of the things that we that we experienced during the covid crisis that's still ongoing but it's more stable now. And that is that the geographic diversity. What i call it so we had cases we do a lot of our doctors do a lot of our cases here in the states. We have we have some offshore labs doctors choose if if they choose to and we had cases that were in china and they couldn't they closed so we just our labs brought them back here fabricated here in the states on. Guess what happened. A few weeks later. The us labs were closed and the chinese labs were and so the cases went the other way they went ahead and fabricated them wherever the blab was open. And so you have that you can send it anywhere and it goes in a matter of minutes. I just click a button. It goes off to where it needs to go. What was the lab that you're working with. You just said it's my lab. Connect my my lab connect. Yeah it's it's not on the market yet and who is that a heartland company or is that a a new company or it's a new company. It's lecture group. Elliott i x i r. l. e. Act sex i r. I are and talk about that. Well you know one of the things that we also seen as there still a lack of connectivity between the various pieces the lab management software building software in the office the scanner and scanner an analog impressions. You know a lot of labs are creating their own apps their own portals on the the nfl. Last number i saw was that the average american dentist is using three point. Seven labs so you know using all these different apps or writing all this paper so my lab connect is just a connector talks to dent tricks. It talks to all the practice manage sees me. The lab management softwares. Anna talks to the scanner. And so we've built. Api's aligned built. Api is for us with them. And so it's it's an instant communication to a communication. While i was sitting here i was getting a notifications on my phone. That a scion that was set was good to be designed. And then i can. I can text and and to a communicate. So we're anticipating a major role out of that in the in the coming year or so and why some people think. Oh you're just obsessed with this all digital thing and they're not convinced that the almost like obsession as opposed to return on investment but Do i mean even some really older famous that still have charts sill us emperor. They haven't gone pressure materials. They still use the dark room all at seven way. Do you think do you think digital is a businesses in going forward. I mean do you think it truly adds up. Dentist have been burned a lot of times right buying fifty thousand dollar yen glazer's and some ferried out as they treat peri implant with a scalpel other people by one hundred and forty thousand dollars. Millennium laser la nap and all that stuff Do you really think it's a return on investment. Well i have the data and it is a return on investment we have had multiplied return on investment. The only time there are two key things that we have learned. Sleep data driven It's not just an opinion one is because we track you know howard we tracked. What our scanners are we have the ability through a dash for that align has built our as we can track every single scanner and every office not big brother wise. Just just a note we. We need data. What are they scan thing. What's being scanned for type of thing. Restorations in align. I records just a model and then There's only two sayings it keep you from having return on investment for a scanner in a major way one is not using it and the second one. I think this is really important. And it's a skill what we know as i have date. I have offices that do lots and lots of scans and have 'em we're talking about case acceptance. Now you're talking to a patient about their problems and you're using the scanner in the hygiene room and your treatment planning and you're looking a heat map and of their inclusion. If you just show that to them and go is that pretty you know. It's like look at that and they go okay but if so what we know. Is that if you show the patient the scan and you connect that with verbal skills with communication because you know what do we do all day every day. We help people do what they ought to do instead of what they want to do. And and so you have to communicate but the the scanner is a powerful tool for that and even when they say no. We have the tool called time lapse where you'd take a scam this year next year and you can show them what's changed down to the micron and go. I really am wearing my teeth. So those are the kinds of things. That's the only time you're not going to have a return on investment two things and the lecture group. They're really getting big in the laboratory. I mean Warren rogers President ceo of a lecture north america and night dental group. Talk talk about Do work with him a lot or do they have a competitive advantage for you or talk about her. Lecture group has changed a little bit. It's evolved so now. there's two parts. The lecture group one is the labs. They have watch yankee continental and night. I think i might be missing. One lex stir group. My lab connect is now a separate company so as a subsidiary and it's completely separate so it's a subsidiary but it's still owned in full by lecture just a separatist so so because in order to in order to work with all the different labs. They had to completely built a firewall between the two companies. there's a group you know our primary diamond. We call him. Diamond trusted labs. Those are the labs that we have. Extensive contracts with on the primary ones are Dsp dental services group and x. National tax dds which is american company that they do the. They're more of a single location in china. And then the your group and they have a variety in each of them has a variety of resources. So i can. I can do work in different parts of the united states of vietnam china india. Costa rica so we have that network about we work with those main groups. Are every day restorative and you know what. What is it turnaround. Time i've noticed. Some of these labs are trying to get So some nationalized glide wills classic example where they can mail pretty much all over that two or three days somehow but now there's a little pilot programs where for scanning people you scan and get him back that day Do think these closer mobile Labs scaling things are going to be a big or not really. I think the the challenge there is probably going to be the the pricing. I do know that one of our lab partners is working towards our our standard contract with our labs is is five days turnaround time for everyday restorations but added his z. Maxims or coney a- pm longer. 'cause they're still analog and of course removable and implants in implants is a challenge because the manufacturer par parts sometimes back order so we've had challenges there particularly during the code at times There are. they're actually looking at Up to twenty four to forty eight hour turnaround time in the lab. That would still be several days in the office. You know it in the office I don't see at scale. I don't see the plods working as much for same day type of things. I think one of the areas. We'll see a certain amount of that but they'll still be a back end for the more complex Resources because you you need these the technology you need the enters a carbon three d. printers in need the the bigger milling units and those are scale. Those are expensive and so you need to have the volume for those. I don't mean you can't do. Use technology in our goal is to have the lab tech available in the office. Really that's what we're working towards on my lab connect and some of our groups that at some point you you just click the button. You'd start the chat be like ours call. You know you might have to schedule it. But there'd be the tack and there'd be the scans cbc t annex okada or other software. You design the case review the case even show it to the patient. We're not there yet in the real time we're there in a synchronous you know it takes time. That's our goal in in. Real time is to provide that kind of service. I mean we just went through the gosh darn pandemic. i mean the coronavirus Did would s- looking at a thousand locations and going through a pandemic would you say Orel scanning had any plus or minus her What what what were the take aways on the pandemic and do you guys feel like you're out of it. i mean. are you hartland now. Doing per store business to levels before the pandemic or are you still suffering. In a contraction we are we have been very successful alter the pandemic. I was in private practice for many years. And i was. I was so glad that i was. I was part of something bigger than myself. We were actually. I think very pleasantly surprised that at heartland at all levels that how quickly we were able to come back as we had all the resources you know we had a. We had a team of people literally working around the clock To get the ppe. We were dropped shipping. Some of our lab partners were shipping for us so our officers were able to open up at full speed. A great marketing team sounds like a commercial but we have done very very well. We have very profitable year last year. it was considering the pandemic. It was amazing. It was moving forward when a lot of growth increase improvements in revenue improvements in profitability. A most importantly a lot of happy to doctors that were team members that were very well cared for and didn't have to be afraid for their jobs and i think that was the most important part i think it really changed the whole brand of. Dso's i mean when you're king of the mountain you don't need anybody But when you fall from grace and all sudden your entire planet is under attack from a virus. People were laser strengthen numbers. And i mean i remember talking to rick times on the phone where he just like my god. The phone is ringing off. The hook of people saying i'm done Were you when during this pandemic who were the most likely to say they're strengthen number. Is it guys like us. Who are just old tired was was it. A bunch of older guys are was it even new startups in their thirties. At early two three four years old. Who was calling your phone. The most you know howard. I don't were so big now. I don't have direct contact. But i can say that you know as as our profession has become more diverse You know we we were seeing a lot of mid career. Women join heartland you know. They had the opportunity when we went to school. You know it was not very diverse. You know dental school was just a bunch of guys. And now we've made it more diverse than people get into It's a lot more complicated. You know dentistry was a little bit easier when all you needed was a headboard and dick tank and so with all this technology you need scale and so we're seeing all sorts of people. When i first joined i was see people that were much more Closer to retirement. We still see that now. We see people anywhere from five at least five years out from retirements thirty years out from retirement. Those are the people that are really. You know the guest. They have success there. Get to a certain point. And then it's like whoa. This is actually more complicated than i thought it would be. You know what. It's a lot more work than i thought it would be and i wanna have. I wanna have some family time. I love the time. I was talking to a doctor on a sunday night. Who is considering affiliating. He was at his office doing payroll on a sunday night. And i said you know she join. You'll never have to do that again. You won't if your office on sunday night. It's because what to watch a football game there. I don't know what should be there. But he didn't wanna watch football game last sunday night. My god you're in tulsa oklahoma. You got to know more than you were closer to that nightmare chiefs game. What the hell happened. Super bowl. A touchdown i mean my god. I mean. i'm so glad. I don't that money i love the nfl. That's my stupid that that's the biggest waste of time i've ever had is the nfl edges. I waste more hours on that stuff. And my god i would. I would have been a million dollars at you. Said i'll bet you a million dollars. He will score a touchdown. And i'll say well i'll take. I'll take your money back right now. So you talk a lot about developing digital patient by putting scans photos radi graphs together with in design software to create a seamless workflow between and dental. Labs okay. so you're talking about the tarot scans. What about photos. Is there some digital camera. Or what are you using to take the photo with you know. We're we have a variety. currently are teaching our aesthetic programs. Dr berlin and dr golden a leading that. There's still big big fans. And i don't disagree with them the s. l. Are you know camera is the standard still. We're seeing a lot of success with the were starting to utilize ipad type cameras because team members can utilize those you know all the the just regular ipad type cameras tablets. It works really well with the apps. Now because so much is is Apple based on a couch monds. Disd actions based off of exo cat. other programs like that. They all have their apps services right there and so i think that's the direction that that we're going. I going to do an article or something. You need the macro. We're we're seeing a lot of success with that because it has to be simple if his complicated a lot of people won't won't do it now would you say about radio. Graphs do of their thousand locations. Is that usually the same digital radiographs. Well each as far as the brand or brands you know we we have. We will work with a partnership with different companies and currently working with an and vista and cavo on moving forward. We have a lot of care stream technology in our offices out what i'm working with. That's another part of that kind of leaks into my area. I'm working with our vendors to make sure that there's compatibility across platforms in all the rest of the world is like that. But it's time for dentistry to get out of the while your stuff can't connect to my stuff and i'm you know i'm everything is closed off and so things that i'm working. Her saly on is to open these things up. We can bring the the teams into the room and say you guys need to work with you guys because this should connect so. We didn't doing some testing recently on several different sensors to see if they work on the same platform in other words. If we have a single whatever imaging platform you're using will that will it work with multiple sensors and i'm excited to say that the industry is getting on that bandwagon. And they are you know with the twain compliance standards that you can now begin to plug multiple scanners into a single platform. So what is in these in visas. A holding company they own cavo armco and my kerr noble bio care but anyway what is their radiographs digital radi graph machine. It's it's the cave is texas. That's under cavo yay and then They're they're panoramic three. D. is based on Instrumentarium they bought that a number of years ago and that was the origin of that. It's no longer instrumentarium And you know we're we're seeing a lot of consolidation in brands as well. Some seen that some of the brands that we used to see here cannot be merged into the bigger the bigger picture and the digital software That you prefer the most or the use of osas out Which ones at well right right now. We're working with were working with but we're still. We're still kind of open to looking at new things. Were evaluating several different options. I don't know what the final the next solution is going to be. I think next is not a final. Its next solution. We don't change platforms often but it will. It will happen periodically. And we'll see the technology will make it easier in the future. A right now. We're installing deck sits in our newer offices. And you were talking about earlier that you want all these vaccines to talk to each other. So that's an open format correct as opposed to use format. It's opening up. yes so texas. Currently can take scanners. They can receive information from multiple sensors. And of course multiple inputs any any Cbc tea or any panoramic system can go in there as well as autographs. so that's that's a different strategy than your software. I mean the only open practice wrenches softwares open dental which is having the biggest fastest growth then trix and eagles soft or more of a closed system. So why didn't trix close system but prefer everybody opened up and go to open system without i mean is switching open dental a thought we we have. I am not aware of that. So i'll be honest. I'm not that directly connected to what our future is looking like for the practice management system So that's a really good question But in the digital area what we're really looking at is making sure that the digital platform with impatient images and patient scans is open released connected. They're connected to each other seamlessly from the user's perspective. You know on these. I tell you i'm i'm i'm i've always been four of them because i'm for competition for the patients. I mean america's got three hundred and twenty million people in the first thirty years. I lived here. You fell off the bike and broke off your front tooth on a sunday. You know you'd find a mermaid. He founded dennis open. And now because of dso's where arizona is ground zero for dso's because governor ducey pass a law that if you're a licensed professional in any other state year licensed braxton arizona. And they did that because these hospitals over here. We're trying to recruit registered nurses from ireland. And they said it was easier to get a nurse move from ireland to arizona than it was to retake the boards and move one state over and ducey set enough so now arizona. Eighteen percent of the dentist work for a i. It is ground zero. Everyone's here and the other thing you said earlier about you know. There was a change of demographics. So when we've gone from and mostly all male profession to now half half and i have lots of friends right here in my backyard where it's a single mom. She's raising a child that you know and i know one that's been raised from age Ten or fifteen working at pacific and she loves the fact that she can be a dentist. A mother and the other thing is owning your own practice. I mean it's gonna like bowling or country music or rock and roll. I mean you have your providence. Some people just love it. You seem on when they're on vacation. They're reading business books and other people on business on vacations the last thing in the world they. What i read is a bizarre so i just you know either love business and wanna run one are you. Don't love businesses and don't wanna run but it really has nothing to do with being a dentist and i don't think again the complexities of the world. We live in today. Just make it that much harder insurance. You know the the games that the insurance play and you know. We're i'm very fortunate. I we got some very smart people. And they're actually cracking the insurance. Not and it's it's amazing. What what the games that they play. Thanks to the monopoly that they've had for many years for decade. There's just so much more you know. updating computers. I don't i remember we've been computerized for a long time. I got my first a practice. Management system in nineteen ninety two. It was it was crazy and it was a good old daas. But you know now. I don't spend weekends shopping for the best. Buy on workstation or worrying about my data security jeep will do that for me and twenty workstations. It's just it's much more complex. And so i think that's for me personally. Aside from all the other things is just having a. I call it a we used to be. I have to whatever okay. I'll take care of that. I'll whatever now it's like. I'm going gonna take great care my patients we need to and that's where the sentence ends air conditioners broken. We need to find someone who can fix that force on. Just what. I have a we. And that's what. I like so much as having a we can do dentistry. I thought it would be harder to do a little bit more dentistry to help. Share the wealth to pay somebody to do the management staff. And all those things and it's actually easier it. I you know. I am so much more energy from the clinical part than i did before i before i affiliated. You're working with a lot of young dentists and they come out of school and when they come out of school it concerns me because they want to do it all. I mean they wanna learn everything they want to learn. There's twelve specialty. You can't guide you. Give me an oral certain. I mean placing implants learning bone grafting it. Blow your mind. Endo perreault pediatrics. Ortho pros seizure or face. Pay an oral medoro path or radiology. How do you take this. Bright eyed and bushy tailed little baby. Who wants to learn everything and try to sit there and say okay but can we. I want i need you to stick your nose in this because these are the types of procedures and patients situations that you know can the you need you need to focus on and pay the bills and all the sub. Where are you trying to steer them. Well you know we know from our data that us but you know root canals. Simple extractions You know a little bit of denture stuff. That's what we do as general dentists that we want to have success and we just. It's a lot of coaching. You know we have a a one a first year track for doctors. It's free well laid out leadership a little bit of You know basically a lot of leadership how to lead a team because as so important and then you know conical skills and learning how to stretch yourself we have mentorship so we you know if a doctor says hey i wanna place implants. It's like great. I'm so excited. You wanna do that dr. The first step is let's go learn how to take out some teeth and so let so. It's a matter of really mentorship and getting you know senior doctors. It might be somebody else that see one. Do teach one Third year doctors who are passionate their mentoring new graduates and helping them walk through that journey and then of course. Many of our offices have to doctors. So there's a partnership between the doctors along with another outside doctor who's a mentor. Just a friend. So i think it's just a matter of managing expectations showing them the next step. Where do you wanna be. I wanna build the golden gate bridge. Where do we start. Start building a golden gate bridge. While i we start with this and then most doctors are really really ready to embark on that journey. Delayed out for them. What we set is so profound. I mean the dentistry is seems like all the dentist. I know that i'm avenue office. They do a millionaire. And they take home to seventy five three seventy five just crushing it. They're never in beverly hills in manhattan there. Nobody nothing towns out in the middle of nowhere and the bread and butter practice. They're doing seven to ten root canals a month and they can pull teeth. You got to be the answer to that in my mind when i ask myself that what specialty would you want to be that you all have to start with the dental public health specialty because you each have a location. I mean imagine going to the hospital. Imagine you fall down off your bike and you break your arm and you go all the way to the hospital. And they say oh. I'm sorry we don't do arms. We just do legs. I mean you'd like what the hell i thought you were a doctor and you Patients gonna come in because they're in pain and it's eight napper set of emergency room visits and if you can't pull the tooth or do root canal they're never going to go to you again. I mean you're not when they needed you. You were a no show and you weren't a real doctor and they even say that they're like well. I'm a cosmetic doctor okay. Well i don't know where cosmetic doctor is. But i don't think a person who does boob jobs tucks is the person looking for. I break out in pain. I'm you know bleeding. Or whatever i mean. Real doctors get you had a pain. They deal with blood extract teeth. They do they do that. And i think going to off on implants. Oh my god. I want you to master pulling tooth aches before you went on on that and a root canal. A lot of dentists that they're like indo. I saw him well. Humans are two hundred thousand years old minimum and about one hundred. Ten billion of us have lived. And i'm sure a lot of those one hundred. Ten billion people had to do a hell of a lot of things they didn't enjoy like being stuck in cable winner during ice age. Do you realize humans have lived through to ice ages how you spend the whole winner in a cave eating mastodon poop. I mean so you just. I have to learn extractions and root canals and then the basic kranenburg fillings and hygiene s. Just rounds it out. And if i had to list all the million dollar practices that i know where they're making a great money they don't do they don't play implants. They don't do cad cam they don't they. Don't do any of this fancy stuff. There even have a laser. They're just a open and you know they're just be normal. I mean d- do you. Do you see any technology stand out. That is a practice builder. You thousand officers. You're looking at if you said. Here's the technology that will make you stand out and build a bigger faster practice. What would you say. Well i think today. I think it's what we call patients facing technology. We're we're really starting to roll that out. He's just rolled out patient facing technology. So and we're not we're not at the forefront of there. There's a lot of doctors that are doing that. And we're not fully out that you know the ability to fill out your medical history. The medical offices are doing it on your phone. You know we just this this week. We converted all of our our hygiene appointments any opening that we have is available online. And so you know. Nick in two ways so i just had a a recur asian. Come in two weeks ago. She said yeah. I'm so glad you see. I just booked it on my phone and i'm so excited that i was able to do that so surprisingly what i think. I'm really passionate about now. Is those kinds of things that connect the patient to us digitally and that it would be the to do paperwork. The ability to A book appointments are moving back and forth. Where working here at my office. It's not a heartland thing yet Working with the taliban history like with dental monitoring in monitoring Their liner therapy remotely utilizing Iphone camera technology so those are the kinds of things the things that the patient seed outside of the office i think are really next. Great opportunity so that so patient facing technology what would you say are the leaders and the platform and the dental space is still evolving. So much so i i My from a from a. Hey i remote monitoring type thing. Where if you want to track people remotely. Dental monitoring dental dash monitoring dot com is a fairly new technology. It's truly a Their variety of vendors. When we're talking about online booking and those kinds of things i'm not familiar specifically with the different vendors there but i think that's key anybody who can help you you know. Enter your data. Enter your patient information Without using paper. I think those are t factors there and across The ability to communicate and as the number one thing. I i really feel you know i've done. A few telemedicine visits utilizing zoom and those kinds of things. And i'm i'm a more of a fan of dedicated We were looking at a couple of different vendors for that truly dedicated platform where everything is more seamless. I haven't identified my favorite yet. I'm so old school that you know. I think one of the biggest problems that young kids have is number. One they can't i. It's hard for the diagnose intrigue treat a plan. I mean they were. They want to learn the skills they wanna place them. Plan do viz lancair. But just diagnosing and german plan and probably their local period on us is the best one and thought about this for years. It just seems like all the period on us. If there's one thing they do better than gums and perry. Oh it's actually the the treatment planning so have you ever learned that. Just call your local period on us. Because he's trying to send your cookies and cakes to get you to refer and just say will you help me diagnose century implant and take some over there and and then the other thing is talking to the patient and it's so tough because the roadblocks they set up to become a dentist basically got to sit in a library being introvert geek weirdo and all the well rounded people who who were dating and frats and and drinking too much. They didn't make it into dental school or medical school. So the so this. This bizarre collection at the end of the funnel is a bunch of introvert mathematician physicist. And they don't talk to people well and they'll even tell you i don't sell dentistry will do it if you don't sal dentistry. They're not going to get their four. Cavities fix which will turn in from four two hundred and fifty dollars. Cavities to four root canal billups and crown. So get rid of the cell thing dr latin word no ceremony to teach they they just don't like to present treatment and then when you and then a dental town we pulled him because on dental town on your you start a thread on the first bowl you can on the first thread you can make the post opole so a lot of people will say well you know most honest blah blah blah. Say well can i date on that. And then i data they think it. I'm kind of like when everybody agrees that human tab are made of one trillion cells and then their gut microbiome ten trillion cells. So all the microbiologist said wow that's cool we're dot com. They came from nothing. Came from one guy and the new york times but a microphone is facing. Where'd you get that data. He's oh i was just saying i was just making a boy. I just used to numbers. There's no data there but how does how do you get our digital dental patient as digital patient and all this technology intros scans digital radio grass. How can you. this helped. The dentist explained treatment. Because you're selling the invisible when you go to sell me a bottled water an iphone. I know what it is but when you look at me and you say Dude you have four. Cavities robert and you need to get these fix. How can this. How because if. I don't believe you are trust. You are know what you're talking about. I'm not to get treatment. And then i'm a worst dentist. I mean you can say all these things about how great you are. Get your gd. Also but you know. If i got i got four kids. Forget them six. Grandkids are more important. Than if i have six grandkids and i sent him to you and also had a cavity and you got them to get out their credit card and get fix and then the guy next year only got three out of six to get it done. I would say you were the best dentists and that other guy. Next door is a loser and he came back to me and say but i'm board certified. I'm roy fellowship and diplomat. I mean you have to sell dentistry and my homeys don't like it. So how do you coach young dentists to present treatment with successful outcomes so that you can actually be a good dust. That's our early our first year I your education track. That's the main thing it's a. It's about communication. Every team member goes through communications. Which is hannah its roots. Were in a member. You'll remember walter. No walter haley. he was. He was one of our amuses back in the day at heartland you know and it's a takeoff on that and it's about the patient relationship it's not about us. It's like take yourself out of that and you know we have a. We have a process of kind of organizing the steps of communication unto. Two key things and even coming to heartland. I still didn't really have those was dominant buying motives. Why am i your today and emotional treasure. What is my belief system and unless you connect with that in a meaningful way you know my emotional treasure. My mom had dentures. I hated it when she put him on. The counter are a lot of the guys like. I just ducked i just i just saw today. I just wanna chew a steak doc. You know it's like okay. Great that everything. We're gonna talk about his chewing steak and you better take care of what they came to you today for. I mean i don't care what kind of program you came from if you don't take care of what their dominant buying motives today. Then you just what you said and so we really focus on that and you you just have to learn how to connect with people emotionally. It's an emotional thing you know. Half of the nerves honor those things just like the trillion trillion bacteria. I just remember seeing this somewhere. Half of the nurse leave our brain go to our face that includes our optic are outsell. Make and everything when you think about it. You know this just a very sensitive place you have to connect with people emotionally. And that's the bottom line is not a. It's not a secret sauce is just about being real with people and sitting back and listening and hearing what they have to say and then giving them choices and helping them choose the best line and not being afraid which is one of my challenges. I want everybody to like me. Not being afraid to tell people they don't they they to tell people things i don't want to hear but also being empathetic while you're doing it man. I can't believe you said walter haley. I mean he was legend. He wa- lived in one thousand nine hundred twenty seven to two thousand and three. I'm looking at this. it's like. I can't believe he died eighteen years ago. Are we just older than hell. Or what of course. Not just we have a really good memories and we were all in junior high school with walter busy. Wow i mean that is a That was just amazing. Flashback wooded of. We've got over an hour for overtime. would he. What are your takeaways walter. Haley she's been mentioned on the show. Well you know. I think they're the real thing the way it's amalgamated in from then into now is is really about just the the teamwork communication the believing in something. I think it's really about leaving. It's about sharing and believing you have to have a guiding force and you have to pursue that and. i know that's kind of bag. You know to me that that's that's really you know. I've been to a lot of different programs. I've heard you speak. you're the speaker i've ever heard. The key is is that we come to Focuses around to the process of of connecting to that person building a team building team around a common cause and then Helping that person that you're serving china circling back to understand what their problems are but help them find a way to move forward and it's it's not rocket science but it can be complicated at times because people are brickley we just have to be real with people have to meet them where they are so and that was a He did a lot of good for a lot of people just getting them to on to realize that. There's a human on the other side of that mouth and a lot of people. Just don't get it and they need to get it but long live walter haley. Gosh it was born. He passed away on july twenty. Second two thousand and three i. I remember the first time i went there. I think i went through with David hornbook and And and but anyway Interesting guy well my gosh. Good luck with those kids. I feel that all knowledge the only value in knowledge of its transferable. I mean you're supposed to leave the playground better than you thought so. You know one day. Everyone who's in the present right now ally will be gone and we'll have our replacements and how we deliver our knowledge to our replacements so that they got a better chance is everything and and you're handling the most precious commodity and dentistry. The young babies my final question. I gotta ask you. They're they're very different than older people but they don't like to be told that so. If you're a millennial right now you might want to stick figures in yards but like my mom's brother lives up the street from me. And he got a job at mobil oil when he was sixteen in the mail room and retired there when he was sixty five. I mean that's just what they did and luckily he checked at three percent box to for the retirement. So he's doing well but when you go to the greatest companies that for millennials. I mean facebook. Google uber amazon. All the high tech firms the average millennial an amazon only last year. Facebook keeps them the longest two years. When you're any company hiring. A bunch of baby millennials. They'll they'll look at you like to do a year here and then they you know they change your mind and you'll do years somewhere else. So how do you keep. How do you reduce the employee turnover when you're competing against the dental office of. He's an owner operator. He opened that up at twenty five. He's going to sit in that building five. How do you grasp an handle employee turnover which which they do not just in. Dso's wouldn't private practice. I mean they do it everywhere but it seems like whenever i meet a dentist five years out of school. They've already had five different jobs. So how do you. How do you work with that any advice on that. It just is what it is you know. I think it really for the younger doctor looking at different opportunities. You have to look at it with a business sense and because you know the the compensation models are all very different and what we do. Is we work to help that. Dr have success. I think you know and how they define it the very first thing we do. Is we sit down with doctors. You know part of our initial gets beach Here's heartland we call it. Heart start a big part of that is understanding who we are but then also spending time understanding what. What am i the dentist looking for. What am i the the new graduate or the new doctor looking for and then managing those expectations as much as we can as long as they involve showing up. Were and taking great care of your patients. And so i think you know what we do. Is we try to help. The doctors grow and we try to help you know. Help them grow in the manner that we know from our data that if they have a natural success along with their clinical success. There are gonna be happy and they stay in. So we're really building for the long term for that. And then secondly you know when doctors wanna make changes. The good news you know in a situation like heartland is that we can accommodate that. We have much we can cover maternity leave. We can help. A doctor relocate to another state pretty seamlessly and you can't do that in private practice so anyway we can cater to those kinds of desires needs and psych when you can work for heartland three. Have i know guys and girls that have lived in three different states and worked for heartland. Trying to mind is down in florida now. Jacksonville and he started here in tulsa Move to colorado and now he's in jacksonville because of arsenal good personal reasons and he's been successful. Excuse me he's in he's in That's all i'm saying that right and it's also more challenging because you know after after world war two people got married at sixteen seventeen eighteen right out the gate and now they push that back a decade autumn. Come out of school and they meet someone out of continue. Education classes love of their life and once in virginia and one's in pennsylvania and they're going to move and you can't blame him so on that note. Just good luck to everything. You're doing what you're doing so important and it was just an honor to have you on the show. Thanks so much. Our things for the Invitation all right. Have a rocket holiday. Buddy type thanks howard's podcast beat seventeen townie choice award winner jay geier on his very own podcast every month. Jay reveals cutting edge practice growth secrets that you won't wanna miss subscribe at podcast for doctors dot com.

dennis Dennis oklahoma jay geier dr robert mcgrane university of florida college clinical advocacy for heartlan university of oklahoma college hartland ranger stevie aclu plosser delta dental insurance howard
Episode 13: Iqbal

Tell Them, I Am

16:56 min | 2 years ago

Episode 13: Iqbal

"Hey everyone before we get into today's episode, I wanted to take a moment to tell you a little bit about KPCC or public media, a bunch of journalists with big dreams, and very tight deadlines, and before I worked here. I honestly didn't realize just how much public media, relies on listeners for support your donation support everyone in this building pursuing incredible projects like this. Thank you so much for listening to tell them I am. And if you wanna hear more shows like this. Please make a donation of thirty five dollars today. Just go to KPCC podcast dot org, and you actually get a cool. Tell them I m t shirt, it's light pink. So it looks good on everyone promise. Hey guys, it's me Michel, this is tell them I am. It's another day of Ramadan. And another day where I treat you dear listener, like my diary. I like to describe myself, as fearless not just brave but, like not having fear in the first place. Oh, misha's. She's fearless. Because I don't want to be the person who didn't do something, because they're afraid that terrifies me. I mean I was brave in making this show. It was nerve wracking to just call up actors and Super Bowl champions, and astronomers and ask, will you be on my podcast. I felt scared the whole time. But I did it. And if I wasn't sitting here blabbing my secrets into a microphone, you might even believe I'm fearless. I wonder what it would take for me to become the person that I tell everyone I am that I tell myself I am. I'm Egbahl Taybeh. My dad, I'm an act. I used to introduce myself as an actor until I had kids. So now I'm a dad, and then I'm an actor and a husband and offend on Sunday and a brother. Hands head lice. Google juice. I'm sorry. What? AM the devil. Our children are so brazen this showing up to school wasted and knocked wizard onto learning will wizard on why just this week. We've has five suspensions for intoxication AAC falls been a working actor, since the nineties, you probably saw him on glee or increase in book, or on ER. He kinda came to acting by accident or fate depending on how you see those things. You see it ball had a totally different plan go to school. Get a degree in construction management, then an internship and then begin your career. But when eight ball arrived in Norman to study at the university of Oklahoma. He had only enough money for his first semester's tuition. That's it. So he had to get a job. And he got one at the campus cafeteria to put himself through school. His first service industry jobs, I started off actually in the scraping room. You know where those this little box cubic cold kind of thing in the middle of the huge restaurant or Devia, but people would bring in the trays and dirty dishes. Are you scared the food off the dishes leftovers? So I did that he washes dishes. Scrubs floors waits tables goes to school, just waiting for Friday's, so I would get off at four thirty. I did not work that night as a dishwasher. So then I would go home, you know, make myself of some T, relax and watch MTV, which was huge in those days. The way you wanna stick around for that Bill told me about this, too. In fact, it's pretty much Bill show tonight this is. And watch TV and just relax and do nothing. The street. As the king with more number one selling records than any single artist in history. No Elvis collection will be complete without his populus fifty hit treasury truly. So when did you start pursuing acting seriously? I was a senior in, in college finishing up my four year program bachelor's program at the school of architecture and I worked for a construction company and during that job I was beginning to feel that this. Is not for me. But at least I just hated, you know being on the construction site at the end of summer. I was done with my, you know, classes in school, but he much I had become away, by the way, you know. Siwei tables, and just thought about life, for many, many months than I just kind of. Accidentally stumble upon the idea of acting because this friend of mine. Mary, gregory. So she invites me to play it was the first real play I'd seen in my life. So it is kind of, you know, mystical expedience for me. You know, just going to the theater and lights going out and dark and then you see the actors on stage. I really swint freed, you know, by by the whole, by the whole experience, and it got me, you know, thinking about acting I mode, I thought about it. I became more interested. He gets obsessed. He has just finished his degree, but he's like, screw it. I need to study drama. So he enrolls in a bunch of theater classes and Hof into the semester, I knew it was for me and it happened in a in, in, in a moment. -ment. I was doing a scene with my friend. Shelly light all the way I connected with her wasn't incredible feeling. I mean I can't imagine like. I know it sounds really odd. But the way we connected, you know, I, I had not experienced that in my real life. And it just like I say, God, this is it, you know, and I go back home and I call a friend of mine. And I said, I'm an actor it's a beautiful thing to have a moment where you really know something about yourself. I'm an actor. But true for you is just the first step, right? I mean I could say I'm an astronaut, but that doesn't put me on the moon. Manifesting something is a lot of work. So and, you know, and then I just don't became really focused focused to a point what I was just insane. Like that's all that matter. Like I had a plan that I'm gonna go to New York for the euro two and then moved to Los Angeles. And then, you know, pursue acting and eventually will do film and television that was a plan. So anything that did not fit in that plan was out. You know, whether it was a woman friend or anybody anything any job, you know, but waiting tables was something that is flexible in Norman Oklahoma. A fall is like king of waiters. He's chatty and charming and fast and apparently, will serve you liquor, even if he knows you have a fake ID and the work it doesn't get in the way of his path. He continues to study drama continues waiting tables. And after a while it's time for part two of his new plan. Go to New York an act. And I thought, oh. You know, I should be able to find work as a waiter right in New York since I have all this expedience, you know, and nobody wants to hire me, and I say, why is that, you know, because I was so cool, you know, but eventually I ended up working as a. As a waiter as a temp. They call you at like five AM in the morning. Hey, can you be on forty fifth forty fifth street and Fifth Avenue? Blah, blah, blah. This is the address, and if you would've able, you would go, so that's what I did you did you ever think that you would have to work in the service industry, your whole life to be able to continue acting. That was my biggest fear. It seemed really improbable if not impossible. To think that someone would actually pay me to act. It seemed like so such an far out idea. Somebody would actually pay me a good money. I will be sixty five years old and a way away. And my nice dinner would be like Friday evening, Taco Bell. That's my biggest fear. If you morning I woke up a during those days. I will be frozen with fear fear that I will, I will never be able to make a living at acting, you know, and I'll be just struggling and won't we will like settle down. Get married have kids, we'd have wanted to do so bad. So when I left New York, I was I mean, you know, penniless I had just enough money to make it like halfway to Oklahoma, which was supposed to be my you know, middle stop arrest. What I actually had could stay with a friend without, you know, paying because I had no money you know, I drove nonstop took me like twenty three hours, maybe from New York to Norman, Oklahoma. He crashes with his friend gets shift working at one of the restaurants that he used to work at and makes enough money for the third part of his plan Hollywood or like three hours outside of Hollywood on a friends, couch, because he doesn't know anybody, and he definitely doesn't have enough money to rent his own place. The first day I arrived at three PM in the afternoon. I took a shower. And I asked my friends. Okay. She'll me. Street where they bunch of strong. You know. Given the directions. I go the restaurant row by, you know, fear ten and I going up lie at bunch of places and ended up getting a job at Tony Tomas. Which I did the same I drive and the next day I drive to Los Angeles looking for drama, logue. And some of the, you know, trade papers in publications that, would, you know, tell me where the auditions are because I relieve that it was important that I keep working my craft. I mean, I couldn't just set. And, you know, wait tables, so, so I wanted to make sure that I eat that I'm in, in an acting class or a play or something doing something. And there was an audition the same day. I audition and amazingly enough. I get the park, you know, it was a play Skopje. No Malia at Palisades theater. It was ninety five point five miles of one way. So I would. Dry for hair sold know six days a week. I would do lunch shift at Tony Roma's. And then or of a hamburger or something e in the call on my way to Los Angeles fighting traffic and hopefully make it by six PM Perea soul. That's even a two and a half months. I did that. And my first paying job in Hollywood, Hollywood job. Was this commercial it a commercial for weight house? I, I don't know if they exist anymore. It was a, a store that sold music and. And we were supposed to, you know, sing anything we wanted beside my Elvis song. Now the song goes, I'm caught in a trap. I can't walk out. Because I love you too much baby. I thought the lyrics, you know, went like. I'm calling a cab. I can't walk out because I love you too much baby. And it made perfect sense to me. Because you know, the guy was at a bar. He he's had few drinks. Right. So he can't walk. He can't walk straight. So he's calling a cab because he loves his baby doesn't want to be if his phone civil. Right, say it made perfect sense. And that's what I say. I'm calling a can't walk out because I love you too much spe bay. You know that. You know that. Fallen. You can see that commercial, you know, me singing, you know, criticize Exxon in my BG's voice because that's what they wanted to. Said this commercial was likely jet psych, fine. A commercial it made me Elizabeth to join the union, which I was so happy to do. I mean, I just want to be in a union so bad. So as soon as I got my first paycheck, I this stub took it to the union office. You know, she gave me this seat of a temporary card and. I. Lockout get into Honda and I was the happiest man in the universe. I. I had that receipt, from my union sag. While driving, you know, and I was literally screaming, I'm an actor. I have an act. Keeping think of God think God every day, you know. Whatever they are dishing meeting go to have job, you know that it continues. Because I really don't wanna wait tables anymore. Thank you. You can learn more about bond his Twitter at ball Taybeh, or by watching glee, green book or any number of things. He's acted. Thanks for listening to tell them. I am. I'm Michelle if this episode of tell them I am with sound design by Arwen necks and written by our next in me, Mary office, my producer and don't tell James Kim. But cats love her more than him. Our next is the podcast boss here, KPCC, and she is also our editor, does, she have the best hat collection, the universe. Yes, she does Valentina Rivera and Shawn Corey Campbell. Our engineers are tile art is by our talented designer Stephanie craft are beautiful music is by David Leonard, you can find incredible. Illustrations of all our guests episodes released, thanks to Eminem for those, you should really see them. Just go to KPCC dot org slash tell them or follow me on Instagram or Twitter at me. She Yousef we'll be back tomorrow with another sore.

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The French history behind Lebanons problems; challenging the prisoners of war narrative; remembering Brent Scowcroft

Between The Lines

28:02 min | 8 months ago

The French history behind Lebanons problems; challenging the prisoners of war narrative; remembering Brent Scowcroft

"Hello there welcome to between the lines Tom Switzer from our in here tonight, a pathbreaking insight into World War Two POW camps. Now, the conventional wisdom says that the Japanese empire systematically mistreated allied prisoners remember more Australians Australians died in captivity than were killed in combat today though it will hear a different view or the Sarah Kovner on the detention in the Pacific theater. That explains why so many suffered. Plus a wise man of US foreign, Policy Brent, Scowcroft, who died recently. Not he fought when destabilize a country, even the bathroom the candidacy is not for the middle class and the moderates the people who don't speak out just want to be left alone and lead a decent life. They're not the ones you usually come top it's the best organized the meanest. And the most ruthless that's Brent Scowcroft on the perils of regime change stay with for my tribute to the former two time us. National Security Adviser. But I Lebanon. Well earlier this month, a deadly blast in Beirut killed more than one hundred and seventy people, engine thousands, and lift three, hundred, thousand homeless. And a vast landscape of destruction. Now, Lebanon was already in extremely bad shape before this blast exacerbated by the covid crosses the chronic corruption and dysfunction that had defined Lebanese politics for decades with all that had brought the economy to ruin. Many people have lost they laugh savings and investments no wonder widespread protests recently led to the resignation of the Lebanese Prime Minister and his cabinet. So the poodle listen a broader historical context. Let's welcome back to the program Joshua Landis. He heads the Middle East Program at the University of Oklahoma Josh Welcome back to between the lines. It's a pleasure being with you Tom. Now Lebanon was once a model for the Middle East by route was dubbed the Paris of the East. Now, today Lebanon looks like Syria Iraq how did this happen? Well it happened because Lebanon is an extremely divided country it like Iraq and Syria there are Shiites and sinise dividing the Muslim side but there's also about thirty three percent of the population are Christians. Both marinade there and and Greek Orthodox. So you have the same. Religious Divisions in Lebanon that you do in Syria and Iraq but in fact, you have more and that's one reason why Lebanon fell into such a bloody civil war from nineteen, seventy, five to ninety, which was. Patched up. Most recently and They've been running in what turns out to be a real puns e scheme through the central. Bank. In which they shored up the Lebanese pound by borrowing gobs of money billions upon billions of dollars and. and. Supporting the exchange rate, but it turned out that that was a Ponzi scheme because tons of Lebanese in Australia. The United States Europe were sending their dollars to Lebanon to be in these dollar-denominated accounts that were getting interest rates as high as twelve thirteen percent. So everybody wanted that kind of interest rate, but it turned out to be a Ponzi scheme in just collapsed a few months ago, which was sparked these terrible demonstrations and instability because the country is now impoverished inflation has gone through the roof and people are discovering that they don't have any money and it's it's Lit tensions between different sectarian groups, and of course, as I mentioned in my introduction many people in Lebanon I've lost their life savings and investments. To people realize that it goes back to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War One this in France and Britian what do they do that essentially created free great minority ruled regimes in the Middle East, tell us mall. Yes they did and Lebanon was carved out by France which got a both Syria and Lebanon from the League of Nations after World War One. The League of Nations conceded this to France to really rule over the mass colonies, but they are called mandates and. France carved out Lebanon as an independent country. And made the borders such that they were as big as they possibly could maintaining a Christian majority so that the government would be dominated by Christians at the center ruling over Shiites Druze a bunch of sending Moslems none of whom would be able to compete in theory with the Christians and this allowed for a very French friendly country on the Mediterranean that France thought would serve it. Well, the problem is that within the years. The demographics began to change and Muslims became the crushing majority and this led to the civil war in hundred, seventy five and ever since then the various religious groups have been squabbling over. Political power. And today fifty percent of all parliament members that have to be Christians. National Pact even though Christians are probably only a third, the population which underlines how You know precarious. The entire political system is, and of course, in Iraq following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire with the British mandate the Sunni minority pretty much ran the show from the time of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire right through the downfall of Saddam Hussein, and in Syria it was the Alawite minority that ran the show and of course Stiffer differs from the Sunni majority during the recent civil war. Correct. You're absolutely right and this was a pattern throughout the northern Middle East where the colonial powers whether it was. Britain or was France would establish a minority in power given the lion's share of power, and that helped them to rule by divide and conquer, but it left a terrible legacy. That the Middle East is suffering from today because the Alawites this religious minority that's twelve percent of the country ruled Syria and today the uprising was an attempt by the Sydney majority to overthrow that minority that's clinging to power in Syria Saddam Hussein sunny twenty percent of the country Cenis and the Shiite majority and Kurds rose up to try to get rid of Saddam Hussein leading to very bloody civil war ethnic war and and that's that's one of the major causes for instability throughout. The region is this terrible fight between these different religious groups and with Lebanon. Of course, the French mandate you had Lebanon they had French schools and french-speakers that's evolved to this day, and as it happens September one that's just in a few weeks time that Max one hundred anniversary of the declaration of Great Lebanon and the beginning of French rule. My guess is professor Joshua Landis. He heads the Middle East Program at the University of Oklahoma. We've been talking about Lebanon in the Post Ottoman Empire Era Josh. Let's move from history to the present the. French President Emmanuel Macron he recently paid a visit to the explosion ravage by route and he declared. France never let Lebanon. Go the heart of the French people still bates to the pulse of Beirut adjust landed is so what did macron main he? Well, you know he was the first person to go to Beirut at the end of this this after this terrible explosion that killed so many people and devastated much of downtown Beirut around the port. So Lebanese were. They were looking for help and and he reached out and he cared about Lebanon so that that. Was Very. Important. there's also a big hunk of Lebanese particularly the Christians. And the Maronite Christians. Especially who speak French at home and looked to France, as still as they've sort of mother figure for Lebanon. Now, there are many other Lebanese present France is a colonial power that's intervening. So the his legacy is a bit, is a bit complicated, but at this moment of devastation. Lebanon was looking to Europe and to the West to come in and try to help it both with money and with aid, and because the currency had collapsed, they're hoping for much bigger aid and mccaw was trying to capitalize on that. He did he even say. That he would wanted to help Lebanon come up with a new national pact. That's the constitution that France and gave in a sense or hammered out for Lebanon. Forty three, he wanted to Redo the constitution. So I did have did have this undercurrent of colonialism? Yes. More more and you according to the London Tom's Josiah Francaise Economic Influence, in Lebanon is limited only the seventh biggest exporter to Lebanon, and the eighteenth biggest importer of Lebanese food. You're absolutely right. I. Mean Francis Really. Other. Than the cultural question France's become a small time player in both Syria and Lebanon today? I kinda. The protesters in by route the since the devastating explosion they focused primarily on Hezbollah. This is the powerful Iranian backed Shia political party. That's the militia that had in recent years. Become. Nearly an untouchable force in Lebanon and just this week we heard the news from the UN backed court that found a member of Hezbollah guilty of involvement in the assassination of the former Lebanese prime minister potentially future prominence. This was in two, thousand and five. Harari. Tell us more about the Lebanese backlash against Hezbollah in the wake of this explosion. Joshua Landis. Within the last ten years, you're absolutely right. His allies become the dominant military power. In Lebanon Hezbollah is remember as represents many of the Shiites of Lebanon about a third of the population and has very strong relations with Iran. It gets arms from Iran and get some monetary help from Iran, and so it has become a really a state within a state and for a long time. That military power was focused on Israel because Israel occupied southern Lebanon until two thousand after which it left. But today his allies really converted more and more into a political party and it's a dominant factor in the government. The most recent government, all the members were allies of his Bola so. This is. This explosion, the collapsed the currency. Many people are turning to his below and saying you have to fix this. This is your fault. Now. Some of it is his Bolos fault but the big Ponzi scheme that was run not so much. That was the that was laid out by the Hariri government and by Allies of Hariri, the Central Bank Salami and so. It's the trouble is awakening. All of these sectarian splits that were paved over after the civil war but are now coming back to light of day. Now. You mentioned that Hezbollah is like a state within a state. What's likely to happen to Lebanon I mean can it remain lock Iraq and Syria by the way? Can I remain viable nation-states ucf time when all those different ethnic groups to Christian Sudanese Shop Alawite all that they identify more with themselves then as distinct nation states. You know that's the perennial question in Lebanon and in a number of the political leaders during the civil war recommended that there be a Christian state or. The Lebanon be broken up. It didn't happen because it's a small country people live cheek by Jowl. It's very difficult to do that and keep Lebanon viable the Lebanese have to live together. how that is going to be transformed in the future with this very sectarian system where nothing can be done in the country without dividing up every new position, the government in money flow at along sectarian lines, it reproduces itself. So it's very difficult to transition. From A. Where people identify more with a religious community to identify more as a nation and that's the difficulty because it was built by the colonial powers on this sectarian system, it's very hard to get rid of it and to overcome it, and that's the that's the real challenge for Lebanese in this time of revolution of how can they do that and the West is divided on that. France said. When macron left, he said we need a government of national unity meeting his bluffs can still play a role in the government. United States has said that they're going to put sanctions on any politician that continues to deal with his below they haven't done it yet but these are two very different formulas for trying to. Solve this Lebanese problem and they are at loggerheads. Joshua always great to have you on the program. Thanks so much pleasure talking with you. Tom Joshua Landis. He heads the middle. East Program at the University of Oklahoma. You'll listening to between the lines with Tom Switzer making sensible strays place in the world. Now in Australia one of the most enduring and emotive memories of the Second World War. Is the experience of Australians taken prisoner by the Japanese Chang the Thai Burma, Y Coda. Now, just saying those words brings up a strong association with Systematic Abuse Mistreatment and torture at the hands of Japan's Imperial Army. But what if memories are not all there is to the story Sarah Governor is a senior research scholar in the ona-led Saltzman Institute of Peace and war and peace studies and an adjunct professor of international and Public Affairs. Columbia University and you book is called prisoners of the Empire POW's, and they kept us in the Pacific Edgy joins me from New York. Sarah. Welcome to between the lines. It's great to be with you. Now this is a very fraught topic to ride on. There are some very powerful national memories around prisoners of war but he in Australia and the US. Of course, we're Australians is essential part of our collective memory of the war because more Ozzy's died in Japanese W camps then from any other causes during the war I you arguing that history role. I would say that history is complicated. It's true that Australians underwent awful traumatic experiences I would never deny that but until now. No one is asked why and that's what's wrong with the way the system has been told we assume everyone underwent the same experience everywhere and it's not what I found in my research and to answer why specific abuses occurred in specific places. We have to dig deeper and go back to the earlier history of how Japanese treated POW's. We'll talk about the history I think about the Russians during the. War Japan defeated rusher in this war and the victory shocked the Western World and granted Japan entry into the Club of powerful nations. During the war eight, thousand Russians taken prisoner by the Japanese how were they treated? The Japanese treated Russian POW's far better than the Russians treated the some two thousand Japanese POW's some received servants. Some took trips to hot springs. The Japanese taught literate Russian. POW's had read. We know what happened because foreign volunteers who worked Japanese hospitals and they reported on what they saw. It's interesting. There was a shift from the treatment of Russian prisoners to the treatment of POW's during World War Two you count for that shift. That's true during the early part of the twentieth century Japan sought to follow international law to demonstrate the extent to which they were civilized and cultured country but a fraction of the imperial army gained power. They wanted domestic revolution in military expansion. Manchuria in the Nineteen Thirties, they attempted four coups and carried out for high level political assassinations, and then in one thousand, nine, hundred, three Japan announced it was leaving the League of Nations and began to care much less about oppressing the west. Well, that is intriguing. Now, as you point out in the book in the first five months of the war align Japan took a hundred and forty thousand allied servicemen hundred thirty, thousand civilian prisoners. Now, this was from a dozen countries. What was the planning behind taking the prisoners I? Mean was there a system? The. New. Plant in the war simply didn't care about POW's they weren't a priority. There is no protocol, no manual and no one truly in charge of caring for POW's field commanders never expected. So many allied soldiers to surrender. So quickly, they were totally unprepared. So in nineteen forty, one, the Japanese setup, the warranty may Schiro to create dis Lewis POW's and transmit eh to the International Committee for the red, cross, and soon after the prisoner or management office was set up to run logistic logistical. This same person was supposed to be in charge both agencies but he wasn't in a chain of command didn't have command authority and had few personnel. He was merely an adviser. And the guards. Taking, care of the POW's were poorly trained. The Cap Camman Don's were near pass retirement ages. Guard units were dumping ground for those unfit for frontline duty. Colonial Crean guards were civilian employees. They probably never encountered a farner couldn't understand them. It didn't know how to deal with them. But let's get this wrought. The Japan had saw up to the Geneva Conventions. So on an official level at least there was a conception of prisoners of all be treated. I mean in that message get through. Yeah, you're cracked Japan a signatory or at the signatory to what we think of is the first two conventions not third and they weren't the only ones not to sign him. They even agreed to follow them Utah dismantle and standing on circumstances. But even if you officers who knew about the Geneva, conventions lack the capacity to buy them. Pure planners never thought through what resources the empire needed to expand, and this created a series of dilemmas for military unprepared to provide adequate logistics or labor. And this meant the experience to dramatically from camp to camp. Sarah. Kovener is my guest and she's the author of prisoners of the pop ws and they kept us in the Pacific a Sarah Historians of sometimes explained the mistreatment of prisoners of war as being. A natural extension of the Japanese Warrior Code Bushido tell us more. If it was about Bushido why were civilians interns with POW's also mistreated and why did conditions vary so much from camp count. Push it was enor- The Japanese Imperial Army wouldn't have had to threaten punishment soldiers really believed it. And if the Bushido code required abusing POW's why did the JOB News Court Martial cards for how they treated POW's. Interesting historians really haven't rise is kind of questions in the. Poss. I'm not that I not to my knowledge. Now you argue in the book that the mistreatment of Japanese people in America is the interment of one hundred, thousand Japanese civilians in California. That was very big news in Japan. Now did that play into the why the Japanese treated allied POW's? So, yeah this is true in the US and Japanese civilians were also turned in Canada Latin America Europe, and it was a big deal according to diplomatic documents. The US State Department noticed it was tit for tat mistreatment of internees like shooting any who tried to escape led to mistreatment of allied POW's Tokyo and Washington continued to communicate with each other during the war. But these notes failed since Japan was very concerned about the treatment of internees and cared little for its POW's for the US. It was the opposite. I now in your book, you also argue about five slapping. Forced marches. A lot of these things seemed unusually cruel to allied POW's they were not unusual awards. They were not unusual in the imperial Japanese army you arguing, Sarah, there are different cultural perceptions of what constitutes cruelty. Well I. Think everyone would agree that some things are indisputably cruel but at that time, the Japanese didn't always understand them as being cruel and some things that were cruel were just part of Japanese Imperial Army Culture. Take Bay slopping. This was a matter of course in the Japanese, Imperial Army. But evidence indicates the the Japanese soldiers preferred what was called private sanctions to formal sanction. Per what made the POW experience traumatic restrictions Americans, even when conditions were more tolerable was that they were being held captive by men, they consider their inferiors. So it was racism affected this era. Yeah, I think. So wartime accounts on both sides show that enemy is being members of infuriates. If not another species, they had little experience with each other didn't speak each other's languages and You know and as many as the Japanese and Koreans encountered a non Japanese speaking farner and thought they were being defiant when they didn't immediately follow orders many Americans Dutch Australians had never before encountered Asians is anything but cool subjects. Is this program is all about challenging conventional wisdom's our understanding of the past. So you'll book really goes a great deal to challenging the accepted wisdom on this subject. And this is such an important issue for Australia's. I've mentioned in my introduction, the POW experience it really essential to our memories and the American memories of the war. But as you point out Japan Hill prisoners from a dozen countries, most of the prisoners were Asian. I i. think that point rarely gets mentioned most the prisoners were Asian question. was there a difference between the treatment of Western and Asian POW's? Yes yes. You're right. There were allied debuted included Indians Filipinos Chinese, and even Asian Americans, and then there were Asian laborers the treatment of which was appalling. It isn't something you learn from most accounts of the POW experience in which the POW's are. Always, white men, but Asian men were often treated even worse such as the Indians who refused to join the Indian National Army of fallen ill question Sarah. How is the POW story issue talked to about in Japan today? It's a great question. It's not talked about so much as you can see in the recent coverage of the seventy fifth anniversary, it's not surprising that the Japanese were experience focuses on their dead, those who were firebombed or civilians who suffered, and primarily these stories are local in their stories victimhood. But let's remember that being a guard was low ranking position indeed many girds were not Japanese, but as I mentioned Korean Taiwanese civilian employees. But that's why I got interested in this story precisely because it's so seldom mentioned in Japan even while it's still looms large and Ustralian American memories of the War Sarah thanks so much for being on iron today. Thank you Sarah. She's from Columbia University in New York and her new book is called prisoners of the Empire POW's and they kept ause in the Pacific. VC's. Between Lines. ABC. Radio National. Go back three decades. August nineteen ninety two am local time on all the second Iraqi troops crossed the border into Kuwait and its army of just twenty thousand men were swept aside in a matter of hours by a force of tanks and infantry battle the by their eight-year war against Iran. Now, Brent Scowcroft took the lead in organizing the US laid multinational response, and WHO's Scowcroft you might ask, well, he's the only national security advisor to to US presidents Gerald Ford in the seventies and George W Bush in the eighties and early nineties he died recently at I, Ninety five now Scowcroft was one of the most successful. US Foreign Policy Figures of the Post World War Two era and according to the Economist Scowcroft Role in the Gulf. War. In the early ninety nineties was his finest hour. But he had his detractors and after the Gulf War Scowcroft was criticized for not going to Baghdad to finish the job of bringing down Saddam after the liberation of Kuwait. Now, the critics were not just American neo conservatives but also of old people Paul Keating, he's the Australian prime minister in September nineteen ninety-four after the iraqi-dictated defied a post Gulf War UN resolution but I think that the great pity was we never went after Saddam signed the first place. On, the first round. And? Basically, when we had any bite, we should have finished him off however Scowcroft always medically the objective of the mission in nine ninety one was Q. Whites Liberation Regime change in Baghdad, he warned was always fraught with danger of unintended consequences in what he said was a visually hostile land. Now that sense of restraint prudence that form Scowcroft thinking on the eve of the second Iraq war twelve light up which Katie successor John Howard supported toppling Saddam's regime. Scowcroft argued would be very expensive. It have very serious and bloody consequences Saddam Scowcroft. Was Power. Hungry. Survivor who is a little cause to join al Qaeda Iraq he warned could be contained just log out the rogue states but Bush Junior dismissed Scowcroft. Scowcroft COP criticism for speaking out against a wall prosecuted by his best friend, some George W Bush former colleagues Dick, Cheney Donald, Rumsfeld, and he's under study Condoleeza. Rice. However, his warnings sadly prescient the Iraq invasion as virtually everyone acknowledges now was an unmitigated disaster. Now for more on, Scowcroft He my twenty fifteen interview with these biographer but Sparrow and re my article in the Australian newspaper. This week both links are posted on the homepage ABC dot net slash aren and follow the prompt to between the lines. Well that's it for another week off between the lines here on our in arm Tom Switzer. Happy containing again next time.

Lebanon POW US Syria Joshua Landis Tom Switzer Iraq Japan Saddam Scowcroft France Australia Japan imperial army Sarah Middle East Hezbollah University of Oklahoma Beirut