20 Episode results for "University Of North Dakota"

Moment of the Day (4/7/20)

Boomer & Gio

01:28 min | 8 months ago

Moment of the Day (4/7/20)

"The one location that has been not noted in the articles that I read in that you brought up earlier this morning. Boomer was the University of North Dakota and their arena. There the NFL. We're going totally different. Oh yes so say. Here's Dick Taxation. Forget it up. Bad News told you or weeks go. I was the only taxes Jerry about that yesterday. I told you that before. That's liberals and the Fox and I gotTa tell you I know this is an ideal but I. Sometimes it's funny matter of fact I'm GonNa read it now. Moment of the day right there brought to you by resorts world. Nyc and resorts world catskills COMPLA- resorts world learn more at our player w dot Com scrappy on. Because that's the best thing this morning. Those funny maybe he'll get back to us. Maybe who knows?

University of North Dakota Fox Boomer NFL Nyc Jerry COMPLA
Dose of Ether #16: EZ Blockchain and Celsius Network

The Bitcoin Podcast

54:43 min | 1 year ago

Dose of Ether #16: EZ Blockchain and Celsius Network

"Now entering. Doc cast. It will either is the perfect drug for Las Vegas in this town, they level fresh meat come on. So they could've through the turnstiles turned us loose inside. Hello and welcome to another episode of Joseph third. This is your co host Lucien bijon was in at the conference in Las Vegas where he interviewed interesting preneurs for the blockchain space this week. We're featuring two interviews one with easy blockchain and surgeon. From there and Alex from celsius network who you've also heard interviewed by D on the announcements episode previously. To jump right in Sergei from easy blockchain is basically taking the waste natural gas that is burned off at all refineries which don't have the equipment necessary to process contain or use natural gas in the process of extracting crude oil, so generally, these are set off as flares, and they're just burned according to Saturday of very little of the energy is actually used or converted at any way. But rather than simply emitting natural gas into the atmosphere. They burn it. So how does this relate with blockchain Serre, Jay? Basically is setting up mobile data centers and he's mining. I think bitcoin, but I don't think he specified the exact currency. He's mining in these mobile data centers with generators that are installed in order to capture and transform the waste energy. That is usually a byproduct in the production of oil into hashes, and they set up a mobile data server, and they run hashes, and if any of those hashes check out or win the prize than they would convert it into bitcoin, I think this is kind of interesting, and it's a different play on how to make blockchain itself. More energy friendly. Bitcoin has no intention of ever moving to something like proof of stake. And they're very proud of how high their hash rate is. And this is a byproduct of essentially expending energy and transforming energy into computation. So there's no way that the entire bitcoin communities actually thinking about the reduction of their energy consumption or their environmental impact. So this is a really interesting play in the sense that energy that is currently being wasted is being transformed into something that is productive and has it could use. I might even go as far as saying it's of something like recycling. I think it's a really good idea. I wish him the best of luck. And I think one of the most important things is that except for the cost of renting the generators there's a very low marginal cost to the energy production. So maybe this is a way for bitcoin mining to start. Diversifying away from China specifically, which heavily subsidizes its energy sector in order to be more competitive in its cheap goods productions, and this is a major reason why a lot of blockchain mining is heavily concentrated in China. Maybe if we use creative outlets, for example, using mining rigs to heat a home, for example, in using the heat produced by these mining rigs to heat a home, maybe if we find innovative ways, we can actually start disintermediating the mining of bitcoin again, which is something that has become highly concentrated massive data centers, mainly because of the economies of scale associated with it. So this is an exciting project, and I'm definitely going to keep a lookout. So what they're currently doing. Is they are partnering with the university of North Dakota. They have tesla -cations currently and they're looking to a production in North Dakota. They have a partnership with the university. So it'll be really interesting to see how this plays out within a university setting. Also, a potentially interesting aspect would be that these remote areas in which they're producing oil. They generally don't have a very fast internet connection and in bitcoin. You don't exactly have uncollected or awards for people who guessed the correct hash. But aren't able to distributed across the network and inform all of the other miners fast enough to get credit? So I wonder if they're going to do something as well. In order to increase the connectivity of these sites as well because it is important to essentially propagate. At your correct block. Otherwise, you end up getting gold, or basically there is someone else who finds the block in the intermediate time and submits it everyone else, and they got the credit because they heard it from someone else. I but interesting, and let's see how it progresses now. There was also another interview with the celsius network, and Alex which is a very interesting accomplished CEO, and in the announcements episode the announcements show itself is a paid format while our show did not receive any kind of money or endorsement of this and. It's a very similar interview and very similar questions. I think the background in the experience that Alex provides is amazing. I mean, he has the resume of a very successful tech founder, and if you haven't listened to the announcements episode, I highly recommend it. It's a bit longer than the interview with the bijon, but it's also very convincing. I think the the similarity in the messaging is quite clear, and it definitely seems like a mature tech product in a sense that very many product projects, aren't you can kind of feel the experience in even how disciplined the delivery of the pitches and Alex's experience. Most notably in being the. The inventor and patent holder of voice over IP is phenomenal. And I found it incredibly fascinating. It's definitely compelling. Compelling enough for me to actually open an account with celsius network. But as I was saying this channel isn't a paid advertisement. So I get to share with you my experience, and I get to tell you what I basically went through. So I I downloaded the app on my device now on my Android device. But initially, I refused the geo location tag and eventually the app started stopped opening for me. It says that I need to essentially allow them to view my location data in order to make sure that they are available in that country. So I deleted it off my Android device, and I acted the app on my IRS device. And the first thing that I noticed was that I can't actually deposit money into the app until I provide KYC, and I looked into their project enough to have enough belief, even though they only have about ten thousand downloads in the IOS store, I opened a nap. I'm actually really interested in this new breed of interest bearing crypto prog. Facts. And I went ahead, and I actually went through the KYC process, which I have to admit is basically as rigid, and it actually felt very similar to the Polonia ex KYC process if anyone's gone through that before, but essentially needs pictures of your ID, your name your address, and then it opens what is like a user interface for a wallet and it asks for deposits, and for these deposits, you're able to earn interest and one of the things that stood out to me is that die and other stable coins. For example, you can take the coin base stable coin and actually deposit in the celsius network out, which I thought was really interesting, but the part that kind of threw me off was the fact that the interest rate is seven percent for stable coins. Meanwhile, it's about three percent. For ether and bitcoin. It's also about seven percent for light coin. But I'm currently not holding any light coin. And I just thought this is really interesting because you have a US dollar stable coin when outta Bank you would make less than three percent you'd have to take on some kind of risk in order to get three percent annual return. But if you keep it in a stable coin on the celsius network, you actually get seven percent return. So. I find that really interesting. I also find that really strange. So I'm going to be fully transparent. And I'm actually going to try this, right? Because for me, this seems like an arbitrage opportunity. Given the fact that I'm actually taking some risks in the specifics of financial institution that I'm using in order to hold these deposits as such. I don't think they're FDIC insured. Meaning I don't think that I have deposit insurance on this. But I haven't really found anything that would either prove or disprove this. And I I'm curious honestly, especially because one of the projects that I knew previously that provided interest on crypto or interest on stable coins is a compound finance. I've heard a number of if theory developers talking about how they have basically the liquid portion of their net worth in die in order to have some kind of stability and that they. Also, keep it in compound finance combine finance provides less than three percent interest. So it's on par with the very good bankrate. Currently, but I find this really strange because again seven percent versus three percent or less. It's it's a big difference. And I'm interested. I'm compelled enough to actually try up both of them both from the user interface standpoint. So from the user interface standpoint, I have to say that the celsius network has a very smooth at the colors are reminiscent of coin base. But I appreciate their animal cartoon characters that they have in the various details. I like the interface. I haven't deposited money yet. I think I'm gonna try again, I'm not being paid for this is I'm just curious to see how it works and. Mike aereo city has gone further and Alex claimed that you can go online, and you can check their smart contract to see all of the money that's being dispersed. In fact, he went further and said that it is possible to audit. That eighty percent of the interest. That is a crude from the loans generated is paid back to the community. Well, of course, I looked this up and on either scan for example, the only thing that I could see is an ear see twenty token and having dug into just a little bit. I'm able to see that they actually did an ICU and that there are about seven hundred million. Tokens for the celsius network. And I didn't really look at prices of the token, and this is not investment advice. So I don't own any celsius tokens or anything. But this wasn't something that was covered in the two. Previous interviews and. Basically what I've noticed is that for the loans that you take out off of the crypto 'cause that's another thing. So you you're able to deposit crypto and earn interest on it. But on the flip side, you're actually able to take out US dollar loans with crypto as your collateral in which you have to be over capitalized by fifty percent, and the more that means if deposit crypto you could only take out fifty percent of the value of your crypto in US dollars. And if the price of your underlying crypto falls, you either have to put in more crypto or pay back part of your loan just to maintain this fifty percent capitalisation ratio at very minimum. But the more capitalized you are as in. If you only take out twenty percent of the value of your crypto. Then you get a better rate and. The rates are. I mean, you can check online and see because I wasn't actually interested in borrowing money against my crypto because if the value of my crypto falls than I will be forced liquidated, right? And I would lose a portion of my tokens or at the lower price or I would be forced to put more money in or more crypto in his cloudy. So it's the equivalent of borrowing cash US dollars against your crypto is actually the equivalent of betting against the underlying crypto. And if you want me to explain how that works. It's okay, I'm taking a bet that says that the cash value of my bitcoin, let's say is worth more now than it will be in the future. And I actually believe the opposite. So I'm not going to borrow against my crypto. But you can also pay back your loan in US dollars or importantly in the celsius token, which I was mentioning before 'cause they did an ICU awhile back, and I think that's where the ICO generates value. But. If you pay back your loan in US dollars than your crypto doesn't get liquidated or it doesn't actually act as a short position because you're paying the loan back plus interest in dollars. But if you don't then you're crypto gets liquidated at a lower price and usually for a penalty as well. So I've found this really interesting, especially because last week we covered an interview with maker maker die and stable coins have been really hot button issue. One of the interesting aspects is that celsius actually, advertises seventy million seven hundred million dollars in loans. And when I looked over maker died last week, they were only at seventy eight million outstanding die so die is basically in on chain version of this. And I find that kind of interesting because it's non interest bearing version of this. And I think the parallels are very interesting. But I think the most interesting aspect is that the total value of die. They have about two hundred and fifty million dollars of ether locked up in the dice. Mark contractors is about two percent. The celsius network takes multiple types of tokens. I think there's about seven, but they also take bitcoin. They also take light coin, and they take a few others, and they actually. Say that they have more value locked up than die like substantially more about three times as much and it might not even be the value. That is locked up. It is the value that was created in the form of loans. So it would be equivalent to the seventy eight million worth of outstanding die if I understood correctly. So the numbers by themselves seem very large, and I did a quick search on how to actually see the smart contract that is auditable, and I couldn't find it. I honestly didn't dedicate that much time to it. I did look through the website. I did try to find it. I know it's in both interviews in which Alex clearly states that you can audit this on chain and basically making a promise to our listeners that will follow through with that. And in order because basically I'm going to put my money at risk. And then I'm going to essentially follow through to make sure that it's actually auditable. Yeah. I find this really compelling, and the reason that I find this really compelling is the fact that the way that Alex presented. This was something that definitely brought me into the blockchain space in the first place. It wasn't necessarily that bitcoin itself would become a world. Reserve currency. It was the fact that a transparent ledger has the ability to that has the ability to be programmed with rules has the ability to make an institution a financial institution act justly towards their consumers. Right. Because currently when you put your money into a major Bank they use profit from that money. To lobby and change rules that actually dictate how a lot of our society is run, and there's very little that you can do as a consumer. I hold money in a community savings Bank of very large proportion of my cash is in a community savings Bank that is managed as a cooperative. So it's a credit coop. And I recommend our listeners do the same as well. But that's more ideological and the way they actually treat interact with their customers is slightly worse than a major Bank, mainly because they don't have the same technology that a major Bank has and this doesn't allow you to for example, integrate into most exchanges and and Fiat to crypto on boards. So in order for me to actually have a fee onboard. I actually had to move money into a major Wall Street Bank. In order to have a technology that was compatible with coin base or Gemini. And it's kinda sad. That in order to get into crypto. I actually had to go through a major Wall Street Bank. But the sad part is the fact that there is no real guarantee to how I am treated at this institution. And if the celsius network is able to actually have an auditable record in which they're ledger shows. Okay. These were the this was the income from our deposits, and they're able to actually have an auditable yet. I would hope while preserving personal identifying information, but an auditable publicly auditable record that says these were the loans. This was the performance of the loans. This eighty percent goes to our depositors. And if they're able to do this the details of how they do. It are much less. Interesting than the fact that this might actually become auditable. And I think that this kind of higher level of transparency while it isn't the pure blockchain ideology of pseudo anonymity and not having to provide your KYC. It might be an important transition step, and it also might be step away from the idea that bitcoin is purely hard money in the sense that there is a virtual commodity. I put in quotes that backs up the actual value and. It has something that connects us more to the real world in the fact that if you can borrow against this asset than it could have a utility as well and him, for example, if this type of system works out, and if they actually are able to let's say go to seventy five percent of the value of the underlying crypto, and eventually go more and more in you're able to actually borrow against the value of your underlying crypto in such a way, this might actually be one of the first things that brings real utility to the Blockchain's face. And I think that steely needed. So I'm watching actually I'm not watching I'm participating, and I will inform you if I find out anything more. I'm also going to look into whether or not it is audible because I'm CCR. Curious to see what transparent financial system looks like because I can tell you right now that if you go to maker Dow their system is really transparent, they have dashboards that have live feeds for every transaction that goes through their system. And I love it high find it fascinating. And it gets me really excited about the future about how you could actually transform this digital asset into a dollar equivalent. But if this AP actually has a way to get cash as opposed to dollar equivalent assets, then I find that really compelling and yet eventually he will need KYC, and it is a form of an exchange right because basically anything with a Fiat ramble offramp. These days requires KYC. But I think it might actually add to a lot of utility. So I'll let you now goes now bijon was recording. These interviews live on the floor of. CAS in Las Vegas. And there is a bit of background noise. We apologize and here the interviews. Thanks. So I'm here with Sergei. And we're talking about EC block where they've got new service that's going to help actually oil and gas companies do better with their excess energy. So can you tell me Sergei Sergei? How does this work? What you what do you actually do? Right. So from the name of the company, we call be watching you can understand what do something with the blockchain. Right. So it's not only guests, and we'll companies so what we found out like mining crypto some days ago that it needs a lot of trista. Right. So we were looking for Christie couldn't find it. And then we found out that there is a lot of waste energy in oil base in such as in North Dakota taxes Arado we start talking to all guests companies and found out that they have tons of wasted gas, which they earn everyday. So what are you later research found out that we can actually transform that? That into trinity and use that electrician side. So we build our more data centers, which would bring to the willing. Guests company equal that in the field and actually use use all the energy over there. So you're using the energy that they're not using at the oil and gas meals this is coming from where where's the extra energy coming? Right. So at airy. I mean here we need to understand how that will worse. Right. So if you drill if you had real oil, you have well with it in most cases, you have a sushi roll. Yes. Coming out. So you have to burn that gas because you don't have infrastructure, right? You haven't oil but not for the gas? So the companies just burning because to build infrastructure for the wall for gas is very expensive, right? And they do use some of that energy site by they don't need so much one of the site in North Dakota, for example, can use as much as five megawatts. Christen. Convert that into it's insane amount. You know, so that's a lot of wasted energy that they're not capturing today, and you're providing a Keats turnkey fully complete hardware solution and the maintenance contract so that these oil and gas companies can generate cryptocurrency is there particular currency that they're able to generate or you. Optimizing that and then sending them the money, right? So personal. It's not only ways to energy. It's actually the c o two which has been burned, and we actually were bad for speier. So that's the big problem. Right. Because mount of gasping burgers in saying we talking about like one third world gassing nited states being burned. It's insane amount of money. I and say them out to all see too. So. On your second question. Like, we are full, you know, full solution. Yes, we are. So we have the data centers that can run on Electricite anywhere. And we have the generators that can we with the bar? This is one of the leading companies that manufactured generators in the world. So they manufacture the Jenrette specifically for us. They install him in the oil field and we'd ring our data center there or were there, we can nag them. So we start using that gas which otherwise would be aware and convert them into money. So we've bring that expert revenues willing guess companies we, you know, much more better air for us. And we sold some probably makes sense because this is this is energy that is being used and not that going oilfield. It can't be moved anywhere. Yes. Have to get the most maximum value of it. At the location where it seeping and where they do normally. They just light it on fire. That is exactly what. And so what you're doing is your say, hey, instead of lighting fires dumping bunch of CO two the air converted into cryptocurrency use that power to secure these networks big point, and you get money. So it's a win win win for the environment for the oil and gas operator and for you the. That is what are you trying to do right now? What is your biggest? So right now, you believe us to not really not our biggest challenge is actually to work with regulatory agencies. They don't really look at this as something that can solve the problem because from experience they are not they're trying to solve the problem. They know that exists. They force researchers, but they don't solve it. So we want to be you know, lamble where regulatory agencies or departments, whatever they endorse us, but they don't do that. So right now, our main challenge is actually explain this technology, and guess companies because the only thing they always to pump gas. I mean palm oil and burn the gas. So we need to claim. Hey, there is an inter college, which is blockchain and we walk. Walk changing. We can mind going on the other devices, and that's real money, which can be converted dollars by. Very cool. Right. So I'm excited to see what he comes up with next. Where are you operating? Now. Right. So we have out of Chicago. We have chess locations in Indiana. And I were first location to open will be North Dakota. So we're partnering with the university state university of North Dakota research center to working with them right now and trying to find the location. Excellent live wishing the best of luck. Can't wait to see all that gas going into the atmosphere into our chairs crypto curtseys. Thank you very much. Yeah. We'll Bess excited. Here with Alex from celsius network colleagues on time currency investor in the space. He's an inventor's. Well, I'd love to chat about that to start. So what was the what was the thing you were working on in the nineties two thousand that people may have heard he has several fifty patents related to voice. The voice protocol road, the original patent in October of nineteen ninety four Bill the first gateway ninety five and it was actually the cover page in the new of times, we deployed for AT and T and Japan. So we bypassed the eighteenth, Katie DAT and bilateral system. Using VoIP gateways ran on the jen's internet backbone the entire Bhagwan was forty five megabits cheese. And that was the internet backbone back down. So I remember I remember when I was getting mafia you're seeing commercials. Plug this into your. Pewter pretend to get get your telephone for free in the late nine news. So that was over waiter later anyone ninety five most people still dial up with the modem to get into the internet. So when you said because dialup modem was nine point six kilobits, and I needed at least sixteen kilobits just to establish voice connection it. It'll be highly. Yeah. Yes. Yet about two hundred fifty milliseconds. I was allowed and say to still make the connection and it wasn't easy. But you know. No, one knew some people thought it's going to be voice over Ethernet. Some people thought it was voice over frame relay. So there was only companies going in different directions. I was lucky number to focus on PCP fan UDP's, or do you think it was luck that you pick the right technology, or did you evaluate these other options and say, I know a future when I still the into that realize that it's going to take over everything just like today, I realize that the blockchain is gonna take over everything. So when it becomes the dominant platform all the non dominant from Heff to migrate domino. So no one in their mind would be able to maintain the tedium network in a nineteen Edwards. There's going to be too expensive. So that is going to collapse and become a feature on nineteen debts. I got that faster than anybody else and you build patent protected here in a nation right wrote the patents build a gateway to enable tedium traditional the time vision flexing to be able to run. On. TCP IP network. So our gave with this supported see seven seven protocols the protocols, and then converted all that into. Run on T DM, and then back to whatever the device on the side. Sometimes it was a cell phone. So you have two different wireless protocols sometimes to the and sometimes he was just a people. And now, you're with celsius network after billion dollars raise. Three billion and exits you're focused on blockchain, and we were talking earlier about how Cox was part of the reason why you really got an ambitious about this space. What are you trying to do with celsius network today? So I believe that money over the is a future and money over these bigger than the internet. If you think about the internet. Yes, it fixed travel in fixed, communication, and fix document management document distributed. Native thing physical things that's not think of all the money in the world all the money in the world such as everything. So when you talk about money Ripi that touches every industry every transaction everything that was ever was and everything that will ever be so and again, this is a goal and everything will run dominant for it is I'm gonna global max where everything today has been a local duck to now that this now that this has come into the four we're able to leverage that technology, and it's never existed before. Now, new things are even possible. Are you looking just starting experiment with what it is the problem? We really have is that when you look at the blockchain like that experimental you cover, but he's is in the touch to elephant tail Milliken elephant and somebody else touches, no donkey, we're still figuring out still figuring it out. So. The blockchain blockchain. Slow and expensive today. But it's only very things we are thousand experimental die seal or all about figuring out. What are those five or six launches? Because into it was breaded feel hundred but the blockchain is not Luxun is only going to be good. There's going to be one or two killer apps, but those killer apps like I said, we're going to be bigger than apple or Microsoft or any of the companies. We know today, let's talk about celsius. Now, this is a financial. Yes. We believe that the blockchain is all about financial services, meaning the blockchain Lexa Toshi intended is about creating a community platform that is acting in the best interest of the community today. Unfortunately, if you look at all of the dominant situation lives, if it's Facebook, or if it's go if it's if you more or your insurance company Jeep, none of them acting your best interest all of them Arkin on best interest maximizing profit for themselves, and what we're saying is you can use the blockchain to take in into meter out. And the liberal that value to the person. Who has dollar wreck tech consumer financial service and give control for example, celsius created of a simple app that everybody can download it almost everybody in the world will excluding five or six countries. And that. Anyone with going to fear him like going ripple on to earn interest? Every Monday with Schubert interest people that this it doesn't matter. If you have one dollar one million dollar you get throw rod or the same interests, which changes people lives because it's five times more than what the Bank face, and this is interest on crypto currency deposit. So what is the minimum amount that user? And will try to be as inclusive as possible. The point that we are in it for to bring in the seven million seven billion people into the middle class voice. As you know is. The. Now, his three mil- three billion us the goal here is to achieve more than bring even more people to the washing. Because really the only chance Milas is to replace existing infrastructure instead of just. Congenial to empower the banks and dominant institutions. Yeah, it's it's fascinating. And I know that there are a number of these that are focused on this space trying to bring your services to consumers botching context. How are you doing differently? Let's see it's about. Yeah. So. You know, you've got. God ten thousand three of you. If you take sold walk by. Through all these guys. They are just as bad as the backside. They take your crypto the give your highness loan. Some of them charges is twenty four percent. I don't even know. Pick off take money out of the community meeting when you pay them interest, those coins going to the community, they go to the rich investors who put money in necks, for example, next into the only like five or six investors. So the inches bution. They distributed a million dollars in dividends. It went to five people. Right. It's opposite of what we we don't take it out in dollars. We converted into grip this we create demand for their zone. And we distributed to the thousands and thousands of small depositors gave us the coins in the first place, and how does the depositor feel protected? I think one of the biggest parts of this industries insurance. If I'm if I'm trusting custody station like celsius to hold generate returns for my though, I know you're not going to take it run. Go famous. It's a platform at the custodian platform to us about exchanges. It's use variety of service providers and again off look our interrogation acting in the best interests of the community. We don't use leverage. We never have excess our ratio of deposits to loans is always negative not like Liman that had fifty to one leverage or Jimmy Morgan today has about fifteen to one. And so you're helping, you know crypto users holders to get an ROI and earn. I are core. Their cryptocurrency. One of your listeners today, for example, don't know when they give coins to finance finance makes money on their coins. There we had caught the kid without their permission. Right. And generating and they never send you a check minus the billion dollars profit was did they send you a distribution check saying. Hey, thanks. You were one percent of all of our coins. Here's one percent of all of our own, right? So they're not they're not doing knowing this industry. Everybody in this industry. Extracts, the profits of dollars out of the community cannot grow community everybody extracted dollars, the only way grow the communities. If you bring us it's in taking how are you bringing assets in aren't already donated everything distribute is only in coins, we would never give anybody dollars when you best interest in your hours, your protecting go and buy coins with it. So what you're saying is rather than give it a lot more that is going to turn into dollars. Take money out of. Why not give it to a club? That is Acton. The best interests of its members. Right. And and pooling full circle VoIP is the same way. If you think about is the largest distributed negation on the internet, right? Three billion people. No one is in charge. Not a single person company can say Google Facebook. I'm running this thing. Right. You can run any any happy one on the same protocol. It doesn't matter if using what's up sky or anything else and the more people participate the more beneficial. It is everybody. Dip is the same way. The holders of bitcoin the whole theory of our membership organization their community, we're saying look the communities Hyun the is nobody's doing anything for for its members. Let's pull them all together. Listen steak and redistribute the province back to the people who actually hold them on. And so if I'm a theory Muser, let's take the perfect stake. As an example, you know, there's a big issue here where the custodians are not operators of mining architecture and mining infrastructure, are you suggesting that you would use my third and make money on it better than I would always make it better than you. Because because I have so much either I can demand higher Rix, if you only have ten coins ten thousand coins and the hedge fund comes and says, I wonder short ten thousand eath, or I won a hedge my position I want for tax reasons to balance out in my book, they're not gonna Laborde some you. It's too much hassle. So. Can charge. Maybe twelve percent. You can charge them even one percents. So they show scale is a very important issue. So that comes with the community commitment we committed to distribute eighty percent of our incomes to the community. And we now recording all that information the blockchain, so anyone even I don't have any coins. Those can come and very fry right? Queuing outside auditors to see how much did we receive in deposits? How much did we give out? There's actually a website that does we didn't create a website. It's third party some guy who's looking old bitcoin bid. Go deposits looking at how much vision loans, we just probably so much. Did we did seven hundred eighty two million dollars for the six months last six months of two thousand eighteen you can see how much distributor could say. Okay. How much Dallas stay home. How much you know, where it went? And that makes a lot of sense to me. I think what what's interesting here is that you're clearly more. Edited and in that respect being user focused and community focus and about the system and blockchain, but compared to let's say the altered of me just doing proof of stake operation generating five percent. On my theory by actually valid. How do you compare that mosquito leaving we make the five percent just like you? Right. When we don't deploy the coin, but then half the time we deploy them at nine with twelve percent. So my blended rate will always be higher than your because it was use it. I look at the real competition is not between mean doing now, and the real competition is you trusting the banks giving you money for J P Morgan, for example, thinking and say does J P Morgan or any other initiatives to to Shen open, their KOMO owner and show you what they're doing with your money. So the transparency is a big aspect reason a single institution on this planet that is fully transparent which rely is an audit by Ernst and Jahn ordered by by the Loyd. Every six months, every twelve months to tell you everything is kosher, and you can the reality prove everything every day every day you can prove. And so there's no cash transaction. Snow couch. We don't accept come Bernie made of win through six SEC audits. Any past all of them? And it's still still sixty billion dollars. So you have to decide look most people don't understand that into thousand eight. It wasn't the US government that failed out Bex. He was the US consumer that three hundred thirty million people that live in this country who bailed out all the and so I wrote that you hear from these top banks crypto fraud bitcoins. Frogs xactly on these guys are gonna also Argo getting five twenty million dollar fake accounts. Unbelievable, the people not a single banker into so finally open one fake Bank account would go to jail media. But if you do twenty million, that's that's okay. And what's about this? It's a proactive disclosure where you know that at anytime anyone can validate watch him what has happened. And so, but that's easy. When you do the right thing, you see when you cheat and steal, and you still bonuses you have to hide that Stein. When you shady business in Malaysia. And if. If you Goldman Sachs used to hide all that stuff. Right. Look, I frankly, I don't understand the everage person still trust. I mean, banks not your friends, you know, like if you haven't realized that yet think about it. They take your dollar deposit or you get your salary worked really hard for two weeks. Check deposit in the Bank. They at best. You one percent. Then they turn around give me your money. It's your money. It's their money. They lend you all they did his broker deal between you on my credit card. Right. They charging twenty five percent. You got one percent. So ninety percent of the value is collected by the Bank. Just yes. Our our economic activity. There's as much of the real estate broker charged ninety percents of the value of the house. You sold you go crazy with quality lawsuit against the parallel. Yet. So. That I find really interesting is that you phone companies to do this to charge a three dollars a minute because you didn't have a choice. This is a paradigm shift at now that we can be transparent, we will be transplant companies that. We'll succeed. There's no alternative to Justice matters in the council will move from. Because think about people look at the Bank issues giant building the wall, these banks powerful only reason they're Powell's because we continue to give them more money. Help. Our full is gyping Morgan if everybody stopped depositing money, nothing, they lose all their value instantly. So really up to us. We the people to do the right thing for the community. Now, all we're doing is building organization. The does that for the community membership fully transparent in its best interest. No leverage zero-risk and people in relatively right? And I'm carrying the fracture Toshio, right? I'm here saying, hey, this is what I'm not. So sure. But but again, I don't need to work doing this for the money during it for change this. I don't have enough switch I have to do something. But but the reality is that they'll petunia here is to transform humanity from the guy dies with the most dollars win to the people that pulled together the largest community and celsius network. Alex is here with us. They've got a new app out there. You can deposit your crypto today. How many crypto currencies we I think we have eight and we adding four more NBA getting stable coins. And and the you can get crypto approximately between what rate like we'd recharge between five and twelve percent. So if you for example, bitcoin the two thousand dollars worth of bitcoin, you get five hundred dollars loan that will be twelve percent. But if you took only twenty percents to two hundred dollar loan. We'll only charge you five. Percents because the L'Oreal TV loans evaluate show means less risk for the convenient less risk. We should charge you less. So so it's a win win for both sides and the and again, we eighty percent of the back to the coin holders. So the value never leaves the community. And it's it's it's comedy money. Getting back to community users using the money to grow. The nothing goes to the bankers nothing goes for private jets. No bonuses. Because normally it's big pockets putting money into over leverage consumers who then have to go. Get bailed out by the government or somebody else when they make a mistake. They don't make a mistake. John bonuses, exactly on that note. We we look forward to seeing celsius takeover, and and knock at least to Colchester action listens. The coal to action. And the reason why you asked me before why are we doing this? This community of ten years has less than thirty million active users when internet was ten years old. With over five hundred hundred. So we are order of magnitude behind the internet, adoption, and it's because all of us all the people who are active in this community, just shuffling coins. With each other. You know, it's like a relay race. You know, the four four stick relaxing. We bring we started. We bring in more people Sogeti, but we started with anarchist, and they passed the tone to the -tarian on those guys passed onto the speculators. And the speculators was supposed to pass the baton to institution too hot and dropped the baton. And that's why we have this crash of ninety percent of the value because they situation was supposed to bail us in but coming in and putting tens of hundreds of billions of dollars worth of new capital into the industry. The only way we saved this by bringing new people into the community. So each one of your listeners has to being ten people into the community. We do that. They will this addition because we can have there's enough good products out there lending products in interesting. We have another service called self pay. We can sell send point to people that don't even have Wallich works Vendrell. But you could send anyone in a sense, right? So it's an example of how easy used to now offer this to anyone out so only services a targeting solving adoption issue because the biggest problem with pricing of the coins go might be going down lower. It's going down lower because all of your busy trading instead of bringing people into the community grow the community. Everything sold. Thanks. Listeners can find them. Napp store. Andrew.

Alex US North Dakota Bank Las Vegas blockchain Serre Sergei Sergei university of North Dakota ICU China KYC Lucien bijon Joseph
What does it mean to keep the internet free? An in-depth discussion with Why? on North Dakota Public Radio

Cory Doctorow's craphound.com » Podcast

1:39:22 hr | 1 year ago

What does it mean to keep the internet free? An in-depth discussion with Why? on North Dakota Public Radio

"Y philosophical discussions about everyday life is produced by the institute for philosophy and public life. A division of the university of North Dakota's college of arts and sciences, visit us online at why radio show dot org. Hi, I'm Jack Russell Weinstein host of y philosophical discussions. But if they life, today's episode we will be asking Corey doctor. Oh, what it means to keep the internet free. A long time ago in nineteen ninety five I was fortunate enough to be in Vienna. Austria, and participate in the ninth annual European meeting of cultural magazines, the conference had volved, a small Representative of art and culture publications that were trying to find their way in the new world. The newly created worldwide web had opened to the public two years earlier. And as everyone knows it shook the publishing industry independent niche, magazines felt the seismic shift more than anyone else Vienna is the meeting place of eastern and western Europe and the conference represented that cultural divide the participants had two fundamental differences of opinions, folks from the west were overwhelmed by the internet size and wondered, how creativity would avoid getting lost in the vast nece people from the east were upset about the web's lack of permanence. If you could edit any webpage or delete, any file, can you ensure that history could not be rewritten, all of this was in character? The former Soviet. Republics were still unsteadily recovering from the Union's collapse and capitalists were taking a victory lap. The east was worried that power would win the internet and the west feared that money would no one was confident about what was to come. Just yesterday. I scanned my copy of the limited edition magazine, we published a commemorate the event, it's an English French and German and asks, what would a computerized Europe of the new millennium? Look like there's an article about community cohesion in Albanian one about cultural journals and Romania I wrote an article about the way the web balances individuality and community someone else talks about how computers made him feel old. What is overwhelming about this? Artifact is that the questions everyone was debating during the birth of the web are the same ones. Everyone is asking now is the internet a place of freedom in creative exploration. Or is it a place where power manipulation and allusion went out is the federal nature of the web? It's greatest asset. Or it's worse quality does the fact that anyone can publish a website, make cyberspace democratic and egalitarian, or does that just create a chaotic anarchy, that crushes individuals under the boots of their larger or affluent competitors. The answer to all of these questions was the same then as it is now. Yes, yes, the internet is free and manipulated. Yes. It's changeability is a gift and burden. Yes, it is individualistic and corporate as I wrote in nineteen ninety five the web is the latest manifestation of the great tensions of human life. We are not consistent preachers, where driven by universal of forces that puts us in a myriad of ways, if the media, we use to communicate are not as complex, as we are they cannot be useful. They will not last sophisticated tools. Bring with them sophisticated problems, but we are not children. We shall not go gentle into the good night. On today's episode where asking what it means to keep the internet free this itself as an ambiguous question. The term free can have a lot of different meanings, like cost less or fluid. It can mean welcoming as a commune might be or without boundaries, like meditation free can apply rule breaking as in free jazz revealing like an uninhibited conversation were so used to freedom being political watchword that we forget, how expensive the concept really is. We tend to talk about the internet only as the literal network that connects our computers, disregarding, our thoughts feelings and behaviors when we interact with it, but the internet can only be as free as its users. It's like when we go to a neighborhood restaurant and always order, the same thing off. The menu doesn't matter that the chef offers dozens of delectable options for our dining pleasure, for us that restaurant has no variety. I suppose then that the most instructive starting point for our conversation is the magazine. I scanned yesterday only ninety nine were printed. Some sure no more than one hundred fifty people worldwide. Even know it exists, but I'm gonna post it on my blog and share the link. I bet it will be read by more people that first day than in the last twenty five years, I'm also confident it will find its way to the original contributors, all because I happen to have a scanner on my phone, and I was looking for something to talk about to start out this show, the internet is free in the same way that all human creations are. It's unpredictable. Oil and it has a life of its own. It can't be directed, but it can be nudged the web came with risks. But that's okay. Everything else does, too. We've all become so used to are connected that we've forgotten the internet should be dangerous. It's supposed to be more than we can handle. At least. That's how we all felt back in nineteen ninety five and that's why we published a magazine after all, if there wasn't so much at stake. What would we have to write about? And now our guest, Corey, Dr oh, is a science fiction, author, activist, and journalist, and the co editor of Boing Boing, one of the internet's biggest blogs, he's written numerous books, including information doesn't want to be free and most recently radicalized, Cory welcome to why, thank you very much. It's my pleasure. This episode has been prerecorded, but if you'd like to comment tweet us at, at why radio show post on our Facebook page at Facebook dot com slash why radio show or Email us at ask why at U N D dot EDU. You can always find a complete archive at wgnradio dot org. So Corey, you're a science fiction, writer, your co editor of a massively influential blog. You've been doing this a long time is your life on the internet. What you expected is the daily life of Corey Dr. Oh, like something out of a science fiction novel. Well, I think those are two very different questions. This is not the future. I expected but it is recognizably out of a certain genre of science fiction novel. You know, I think that when we look at times, fiction, we tend to mistake it as a predictive literature, but I think that at best it's a kind of maybe like an oracle in the sense that science fiction, writers, have no more insight into the future than anyone else does. But they imagine a lot of different futures. And then collectively as a society, we elevate some of them and, and then down rank others based on our own aspirants and fears. And so, you know, when you look at things like the rise of cyberpunk literature just before the internet came along in the mid eighties before it before lots of people found their way online. And in fact, you know, it was part of the reason, people did find their way on line. One of the features of those novels is unchecked corporate power, just vast unchecked corporate power, and I think that it was kind of collective unconscious response to the rise of Reaganism, and it's correlates around. The world here in Canada, where I'm speaking to you from today. We had Mulroney ISM and in the UK, they had Thatcherism and in Germany, colas them, and so on. And, and I think that there was the sense that the gloves were coming off for a new kind of rubber baron, who would be allowed to do almost anything and who would amass so much power that the idea of democratic law would be set aside for kind of private law, and that we would, we would be moving towards a statutory regime that you might call like felony contempt of business model where, where we would be increasingly obliged to arrange our fares to benefit an increasingly small cadre of elite shareholders and not to our own benefit. And I think that, you know, that science fiction novel is recognizably the internet. Right. I think that we didn't we underestimated the extent to which the internet could someday become five, giant websites filled with screen shots from the other four. And, and that, that diversity would be squeezed out, and that our ability to communicate would be centralized through through a few gatekeepers, who would be able to arbitrarily and capriciously decide what we said and what we didn't say and who could talk to, and who we couldn't. So I, I often talk about the movie Logan's run, because I feel like it invented Tinder at least there's a whole subplot in the movie about people who put themselves on the system and appear in other peoples rooms, and they have sex with the people that they find attractive just based on the way they look and at the same time Logan's run is about killing people at a certain age the lack of diversity, absolute control that allows people to play. Do you think that that tension is being played out on the internet in the sense that if we look at enough science fiction, are we gonna find? Everything that we see before us now and were just sort of cherry picking to call the predictive power accurate. Or do you think that there's something about the collective therapy that, that really gets it? Right. Even if we don't necessarily know what right is gonna look like an advance. I'm going to say neither, you know, we just had the bicentennial Frankenstein and Frankenstein's vogue has come and gone over the years, and Frankenstein considered as a kind of parable about fears aspirations, it can have a lot of different valances. Right. It can have a lot of different meanings. It can be about hubris. It can be about, you know, the pride of a creator, it can be about what it means to be human. It can be about technology out of control. It can be about more than one of those things and you see the rise and fall of Frankenstein in different years based on different social conditions. And so the fact that a story resonates in nineteen seventy whatever when Logan's run came out and resonates again, in two thousand nineteen doesn't necessarily mean that the same phenomenon is making it resonate, like I guess, I would say that Logan's runs initial popularity inspiration and. Residents had more to do with the aging of the boomers who were finding themselves at first of all at the tail end of politicize ation of that generation. Right. We're, we're moving from the politicized to the de-politicized and the heading towards the greedy eighties. And the me generation moment, you know, Jerry Ruben is becoming a real estate broker. And instead of being a, you know, an anarchist activist. It's also a very hedonistic time. It's a time where the, the sexual revolution of the sixties becomes the sexual revolution of the seventies, which has different meanings for different groups, you know, obviously, for, for gay people, it's the beginning of gay liberation and, you know, the euro stonewall but for straight people, it was the translation or the elevation of the elements of the sexual revolution that had always been about a kind of institutionalized misogyny gun with the gloves off where you go from, you know, the misogyny of the fifties, which is supposed to be sexless in which. Women are supposed to resist men into misogyny, the sixties in which women are supposed to be available to men to the misogyny, the seventies, in which women are supposed to stop caring about the political Valence of being available to men and not available to minutes. Still, they're still this kind of entrenched, sexism in, in that kind of hedonism. And so, you know, when you when you talk about Logan's run and, and being a precursor to tender, I think it probably has more to do with that kind of dynamic than, than what Tinder has to do with today, although I agree that Logan's run resonates with, with Tinder today. When you see that scene, it feels predictive, but I think it's referring to something else, and so on, and so on, you know, when you think about the, the collapse of, you know, the eugenic elements of Logan's run where they're, they're sending people off to die when they reach a certain age. And that's pretty clearly about boomerang Ziobro right about a generation whose slogan had been don't trust anyone over thirty alternative thirty and and you know, feeling that way as. As they get their today. You know, our surplus population ideas notwithstanding all the talk about millennial millennials killing this or millennials killing that surplus population is mostly about the, the anxiety that we're, we're headed towards an unnecessary. It where, you know, some, some combination of automation, and hoarding of the benefits of automation will make most people irrelevant regardless of their age and we're gonna, you know that this will create some kind of social instability, and, you know, our social, betters will need to figure out some way to, to quietly sweep us off the map because we'll no longer be needed, not even as a group of unemployed people whose existence terrorizes the people who are employed into accepting lower wages because they could be fired and replaced with one of us. So, so, so let me follow it up with a question about your most recent book, so radicalized is four novellas of stories that are very different from one another. And in the second one, you tell the. Story of a superhero who is watching the police to make sure that they're not overly brutal. That's a simplistic notion. But, but it can be about black lives. Matter. It can be about powerlessness, but also you spend a fair amount of time talking about the superhero's powers and what he can do and how much he can see. When you write something like that. Do you have a sense of the metaphorical powers in? I wanna talk to you today about the internet. And so when I'm reading that story, I'm thinking about how the superhero has internet like powers can can has surveillance has the ability to get into places. He couldn't get into. But someone else may read this as a metaphor about or or, or a story about wishing. There was some overarching authority to protect African Americans from police brutality. Do you as a author? Have a priority about those themes. Or do you just put it out there? We'll talk about this, this later like dandelions as you referred, about one of your books. Do you have a sense that you have a message or is it just your following the threat work goes? I mean it's much more the ladder. You know, I, I have some heuristic for plotting that are about ensuring that the stakes are going up and, and, and that there's continuing and rising dramatic tension in that. You're trying to make the, the protagonist the you know, the moving force in their own lives, so that they're not too passive, so that you can root for them, and so on. But the, the thematic elements I mean, there's a certain extent to which they're premeditated, but they always have like, you know, the they always have, like minor chords that kind of resonate with them that are not necessarily in the in the melody when you're planning it out. And certainly in that story, the I think, if there's an internet metaphor to be taken from that superman story. It's that are. Superman idea is that problems have individual causes and individual solutions. You know, we've had forty years of being told that there is no such thing as society as Margaret Thatcher like to say, and that all of our problems are individual and all and the answer to them as individual, you know, if we have a problem with climate change. It's because of you not being diligent enough in your recycling. And, you know, if I if you look at your carbon footprint, the most likely major contributor to your carbon footprint is however you get from work to home, and you can't personally build a subway system. You know, our our solutions to climate change are all collective and our problems with climate change are all systemic. And so- superheroes are spectacularly unsuited to the twenty first century and its problems and so- superman is kind of a relic of this idea of individual agency, and individual responsibility, being the be all and end all of. Of our of our system. But, you know, he always was if you think of the history of superman, you know, he's created by these two Jewish kids in New York. One of them from Toronto who were watching the unfolding history of horror of, of Nazism across the Atlantic, and wishing for Golam right, wishing for a giant, who was unstoppable, and immortal, and on and, and who could just go and punch, Nazism until Nazism stopped, and clearly that's not how we stopped Nazism. I mean, if we ever did now, I guess, that's an open question again. But, you know, to the extent that we stopped, Nazism, we did it through. What's, I think arguably the largest collective action in the history of the human race? Conscious planned collective action in the history of the human race. So, you know, I think that we're this ties into the internet. Is that the internet signal virtue, and it's, it's great disrupting power sometimes for ill is its ability to allow us to coordinate our work. You know, Ronald coast one this Nobel prize and economics, which I should point out is not really Nobel prize price created it got someone else named Nobel to put their name on it, because they were sad that no one took them seriously as a science, but coast won the Nobel prize in economics for a paper called the theory of the firm where he asks, like why do we have institutions? Right. Like why do we have the church and companies and the mafia and sports teams? And he concludes that they all exist to lower the cost of coordinating work that, if the two of us are trying to knit a sweater together and one of us is unraveling it just as fast as the other one is, is knitting it up. We're never going to get a sweater. And so we have to spend a certain amount of time. Time coordinating our actions planning, how we're going to collaborate, and that's what firms do they lower the cost of collaboration. And what the internet has done is. It's drastically. Lowered the cost of collaboration. You know, if you think about something like Wikipedia, or, or the new Lennox operating system. These are things on the same order of complexity say, like a, a skyscraper and getting into maybe you know, an aviation program if not a space program, and yet, we can do them with the kind of institutional overheads that we used to bring to bear on really ambitious bake sales. Right. And that is a remarkable thing. And so, you know, the fact that we are living in a moment in which we still put all of our focus on individual agency, and individual culpability and individual solutions at a moment in which individuals are able to collaborate in ways that, that beggar the imagination of any institutional theorist from any point in history that. Is a that is a chew contradiction for us to be in the middle of. So is, is the internet in a certain sense. The victory of saved costs from fishy, and what I have in mind by that question is. All of this collaboration on the internet has to deal with trolls, and has to deal with people, it intentionally clogging, the system yet that has no real monetary cost in only has psychological cost. Will it always be cheaper to deal with an I mean, cheaper, not literally but will always be easier better preferable to deal with trolls than to deal with traffic jams on the way to work or a large scale infrastructure costs in a building because trolls don't cost money per se that the internet's always going to be better at coordination and, and more efficient because you only have to deal with the, the psychological impact. So I think it's definitely true that trolling is easier when you have the internet because you can collaborate, your work and, you know, that's the story for Chan read it tries, and so on. But I don't think that's the whole story. I think that to understand. How trolls have come to dominate the internet you? You also have to understand how the platforms have come to dominate the internet because because trolls are, are the parasites on the platforms. Trolling on, on smaller platforms. Controlling trolling has been around for a long time. I remember there used to be used net newsgroup, which is, you know, before the we had these message boards called newsgroups, and this Usenet newsgroup was called alz, syntax tactical. And they would do things they would call them raids and so they would go and pretend to be cat, fanciers, and wreck pets cats. And then they would just slowly distort the conversation as it got weirder. And weirder, you know, the sexual proclivities of their catchy. So, but this was it was retail, right? It was it was, it was small scale retail, and the disruption was minimal compared to the kind of disruption that we have now where, you know, trolling that the, there's a kind of continuum that starts with trolling goes all the way to hang up crumbs. And, and, and that's. Definitely a new phenomenon soda, I think, to understand why you have to understand that. There are massive diseconomies of scale that, that merging bunch of companies together, it's only profitable because it benefits, financial engineers, who do things like cash out through share buybacks, and, and who can use the lobbying muscle of the new larger firms to, to win tax breaks and preferential treatment in law. And, and it's not that they make better services. I mean, the best example you have of this as Yahoo. Right. Yahoo spent twenty years buying every promising internet start up in killing it by accident. And yet it took, you know, twenty years, it took decades before their share price finally reflected. They're, they're like institutional toxicity, and they got broken up for parts and sold for pennies on the dollar. And in the meantime, the people who engineered those buyouts and euthanizing of those, those promising companies. They all cashed out and walked away. They were they were long gone with their money. Stashed offshore in a financial secret's secrecy haven long before Yahoo ever had to take a day of reckoning. And so Facebook is kind of the poster child for this today. It's pretty obvious that letting Facebook grow by buying all of its competitors was not good policy. Like, if we had evidence based policy, and you said, is it good that fifteen million Americans between the ages of thirteen and thirty four left Facebook last year out of disgust with the management, but the only place they could find to continue to hang out was Instagram, which is owned by Facebook be pretty obvious. That that's like not a good outcome. And that the that we should have probably blocked that merger as we would have before the days of Ronald Reagan, it would have been radioactivity illegal for Facebook to grow by buying Instagram. But, but, you know, here we are with Facebook being this one giant platform, and Facebook does two things the first thing Facebook does, is it helps locate people who have hard to find traits traits that are widely dispersed in society? Thirty. So if you're an advertiser that trait might be someone who wants to buy a refrigerator, the average person by something like one point eight refrigerators in their life. And so that's a really hard market to target to, and Facebook, we'll let you do things like find all the people who searched on refrigerators all the people who've recently bought a house who live near you, who thought about kitchen remodeling, and you can advertise refrigerators, to them, Facebook also lets users find the people, they went to high school with, or the people have the same rare diseases them, or the people have the same unorthodox political views, whether that's occupy or carrying Tiki torches through Charlottesville chanting Jews will not replace us. Well dressed as confederate LARs and, and Facebook, does this very, very well. So well, that people actually mistake Facebook for having developed a mind control Ray, you know, that people say, oh, well, the way that Facebook influenced the Brexit campaign or the Trump campaign or victim, or bond or, or any of these other fringe phenomena that have become, you know, the Dom. Fano forces in our world is because they figured out how to use machine learning to tell you exactly the right thing to make you become a racist Corey. I'm sorry, I have to interrupt because we have to take a break, but I wanna pull this thread when we get back because I want to talk about the, the tensions between your new book, radicalized and a previous book information doesn't want to be free because the first is about the perspective of a user and the second is the perspective of the internet itself, but we will be back in a minute. You're listening to Corey doctor and Jack Russell Weinstein on y philosophical discussion, but everyday life will return shortly. The institute for philosophy in public life bridges, the gap between academic philosophy and the general public its mission is to cultivate discussion between philosophy professionals and others who have an interest in the subject, regardless of experience or credentials visit us on the web at philosophy and public life dot org. The institute for philosophy and public life because there is no I retire. You're back with philosophical discussions, Delyth, your host Jack Russell Weinstein. I'm talking with Corey doctor. Oh, about what it means for the internet to be free. And whether it can stay that way. In his most recent book radicalized, the first story tells a story of a of a woman who you meet her an apartment, you don't know anything about her, and she's trying to toast bread, and she can't tow spread because the toaster, only uses proprietary bread and the company has gone bankrupt. And so it's a useless piece of equipment. This is like in the first paragraph. I'm not giving anything away in the story follows the experience of someone and people who are faced with this notion of having no control over their appliances in an earlier book Corey called information doesn't wanna be free, Cory explains. The inner workings of the internet, largely by talking about two very basic things copyright law are, how copyrights work and the fact that files are actually copied in multiple places. Now that. That doesn't sound, particularly interesting. But it's a wonderful book. It's easy to understand. It's it's entertaining. And it's incredibly informative, and the way that I understand the two books is, as I said before the break radicalized tells the story from the perspective of the user, an information doesn't wanna be free tells the tells from the perspective of the people who control the internet and the internet itself. So Corey, I want to ask you, when we were last talking before the break, you were talking about Facebook in a way that I've never heard anyone talk about Facebook before you were talking about Facebook from the perspective of the people who designed Facebook to do particular tasks that are largely about making money, but that solve very particular problems, does the internet. Make more sense. Is there an overarching order to the internet? Once you take it from that perspective. So I think the top to understand how we got this internet, five giant websites Phyllis screen shots from the other four you have to understand that tack and the dismantling of antitrust grew up together. And so a lot of what we think of, as phenomena of the internet a really phenomena of monopoly, you know, there's a kind of technological exceptionalism, that says that the reason we have one search engine and it spies on you and the reason the largest phone company won't let you decide which software you run your phone. And, and the reason that the only way to talk to your friends is to be spied on and locked into walled garden is because of like these nebulous Lee defined. He has, like, network effects or first mover advantage. And, and the thing is that the monopolies that we see in Tak are not unique to tech thirty years ago. There were twenty wrestling leagues. Now there's. One wrestling league. It's worth three point five billion dollars. Its owner treats every wrestler in the league as a contractor and doesn't let them get medical insurance through it, and they're dropping dead like crazy. I know that. Yeah. And, and we also have, you know, three John car companies and five giant banks and for giant record labels and five giant publishers, which will soon before, and we had five giant movie studios, and now it's four because Disney and FOX just merged, and none of that stuff is explained by first mover advantage and network affects, and, and all this other, you know, for all and when I hear people who are advocates for this radical theory of capitalism, that Reagan brought in talk about why it's not dismantling monopoly protections that gave us monopolies it always reminds me of lifelong smokers explaining why their lung cancer wasn't caused by their cigarettes. You know it's. It's, it's this kind of exceptionalism that says the thing that I enjoyed and I was like that everyone told me I was wrong about is clearly not why I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble because of you know, some other force, right? Some, some nebulous, Lee defined force, and so we can talk about the internet's unique characteristics, and it has some right? It's the internet is universal in a way that, that very few technologies. We've had before is when I say it's universal, I mean that the computers that sit at the edges of the internet can run any program that we can express in symbolic, logic. This is a, a huge shift from the computers before, you know, the modern computing, when like if you wanted to tabulate the census, he would build an electromechanical computer and could do one kind of computation. Now, we just have a computer, and we load different software on it, and, and the sounds trivial, but it's, it's seismic, because it means that every device, we have is just becoming a computer in a fancy cases. Mentioned in on authorized, Brad toasters become computers and fancy cases. And that may sound fanciful but today, you know, a voting machine is a computer. You put a democracy inside of a pacemaker as a computer. You put inside of your body and, and a seven forty seven flying computer in fancy aluminum case. Right. And a seven thirty seven is a fancy badly designed computer in a in a fancy aluminum case, and so that universality of the end points is then complemented by the universality of the network, where prior to internet networking protocols, you we built a different number for every purpose? Right. You had a phone network for voice, and you had a cable network for television, and you had specialized networks for different data applications physically with string, new wires around and now we have one wire, and it's heterogeneous so parts of it are wire and parts of it are fiber and parts of it are satellite. And it carries every kind of information that we can express as. Digital data and so- voice and video, and so on have just become applications for this one network. So those are unique, right. Those are those are things that have never been on the face of the earth before. But there are other ways in which the internet is absolutely ordinary. Right. The internet is, is, is captured by the same forces that have captured all of our other institutions, so the denial ISM that, that makes our bad internet policy, so easy, where we insist that things that are obviously wrong will be fine in the end. That's the same denial ISM that makes us, you know, burn, burn coal, right? If it's just that the, the preferences and parochial goals of a small number of rich people get to dominate our policy outcomes even in, especially when they fly in the face of our best evidence. And, and so in that sense, the internet's totally ordinary. Is. Is I'm not sure how to ask this question is everything ordinary? And what I mean by that is, are we just manifestation at manifesting human problems? Human tendencies human desires through whatever tool we use, and we just have developed better more efficient. More fanciful, tools, or is the medium, the message in that classic sense in that how we are going to use something, and how we're going to care about something is going to be different based on the kind of tool that we're using? So again, I'm going to say neither. I think that you've figured out the secret to talking to me. Right. Right. Human beings are mixed bags. Right. We clearly there is there is no -bility in vanity and all of us and the forces that bring the good or the bad to the surface. They're determined by a lot of other things in the world. Right. So one of the things we. No. Is that if you tell people that the world is a game of musical, chairs and that, you know, while we might have had abundance before those days are behind us, and things will get more and more scarce. And if you haven't figured out, how to fill up your 4._0._1._K by the time you hit a certain age than than it's not just that you're going to be eating dog food, you might become dog food, that people become grasping and meaner and less generous. Whereas if you tell people that we have a shared destiny. And if you show them that their generosity is reciprocated then they become more generous. Right. And so, you know, like the, the conditions for our world are, are determined by, like the incentives that we set up in our society. And, and I think that, you know, in the case of, of weather, everything is normal, and whether we're just living through human nature being expressed. I don't think that's true. And I think that you can see that it's not true. If. If you look at the way, we behave depending on how our wealth is distributed right after the two world wars America and the world were more equal than at any time. I think at least since many mission right, the because most of the American national wealth had been represented in, in slave bodies. The menu meant that most of the wealth was wiped off the books at the stroke of a pen in America became one of the most equal nations in the world. And it also became a nation in which suddenly a lot of policy reflected evidence right at, you know, maybe, maybe we were wrong about what the best thing to do was, but we weren't wrong because someone had suborned the process we were wrong because the process was not sophisticated enough to get at the truth. But, you know, we follow the truth as best as we can understand it using using the most objective methods. We had the same is true after the two wars right after the two wars. There'd been so much capital destruction that America was super super equal as was the rest of the world. The French call those next thirty years. They tunc. Lori is right, the thirty glorious years and around the world, you have unparalleled prosperity, and pluralism and mobility, and people who had been historically viewed through kind of crypto eugenics, as being poor because they were lesser and lesser because they were poor suddenly ascending through the ranks and showing themselves to have meaningful things to contribute to all of our collective wellbeing. And the thing that happens after thirty years is that the share of wealth controlled by the top Dessel has accumulated into a small enough number of hands, and has become a well has become significant enough in terms of the overall wealth all over the world that rich people start to be able to make their preferences into log, and as they had been able to do for five hundred years before them in Europe. And, and for, you know, seventy years before that, in America, as the wealth concentration, reemerged after menu mission, and, and we lost our ability to make good policy and. So in that sense, we are the internet is just like everything else, but not because it's human nature. But because when policy when you live in a in a an aristocratic it is rotten, right aristocrats, our, our, our form of rot because their individual fanciful notions their prejudices their biases and their parochial priorities to feather, their own nests, Trump all evidence, based policy, so, you know, we have bad policy, but the internet. But, like there was just a hearing in West Virginia over whether or not the state levels of allowable chemical affluent in drinking water should be lowered below the national levels, and DOW Chemical is the largest employer in the chemical industry in West Virginia, the chemical industries, the largest industry in West Virginia, and their lobbyists submitted comments that said, will, of course, west Virginians can tolerate higher levels of toxic waste in there. Wa-. Water because they have a higher BMI than the average American and those, those Jackson levels were set based on the BMI the average American and since west Virginians are so much fatter there, the, the poison will be more dilute in their tissues, and besides that they just don't drink as much water as other Americans that is the kind of answer that you that you put into a regulatory preceding. When you have run out of any kind of sense that you care, what people think of you, when, you know that you're parochial priorities will become law provided that you can prove that you can fill in even the most, you know, meaningless ridiculous justification for making them law. It sounds like everything you said applies to the question of net neutrality and net neutrality in my over-simplified articulation. Is that regardless of the players, regardless of how much money they spend regardless of preferences, the rule of net neutrality has to be everyone's data has to be treated the same at the same speed? But there are people corporations in particular, that don't want that. So the question I think I'm trying to get at is given the fact that you're relation was about money power and class. Is there any way to talk about net neutrality? That isn't ultimately just a question about people on the top that are just trying to take more and make more. Yeah. I don't think so. I think net neutrality is one of those issues where it's only complicated. Because if you if you laid it out simply. It would be obvious. What the right answer is right. It's complicated for the same reason, there are a ton of lines on the craps table because it makes it impossible to calculate the odds. Right. And if you just said, this is craps it is a seventy five percent expectation game. That means every dollar that you put in, you get seventy five cents back. And you will lose twenty five cents craps would be a lot simpler. You wouldn't even need a bunch of lines. Right. You could just have like a four sided dice. And if it came up a one you lost you lost your money and the other times, you've got your money back, and you would have exactly the same expectation. Right. So, so that the way to understand that neutrality, you know, they're all these arguments that complex. You know, people say, well, when you go to Google, Google gets to decide what goes on the front page. How come when you get your internet, the internet service provider doesn't get to decide which search engine us in that just the same thing and the right answer? There is that if you live in a city with a regulated taxi. Industry and I know that's increasingly an anachronism. And when you call a cab and you say, please take me to Macy's, and they say, I'm sorry, Macy's has not paid for premium carriage. We are going to take you to you can go straight away to Sears again. An anachronism or we can circle the block for ten minutes. And then I'll take you to Macy's the fact that Macy's store designers. Get to decide what's right next to you. When you walk through the door doesn't change the fact that the taxi driver has no business deciding which destination you wanna go to right? Markets are supposed to be mechanisms for revealing consumer preferences of that's the whole idea of markets. That's why we like Marcus instead of plan to Connie's. We say, you can never know all the preferences that consumers have the only way to know them as to see how much they're willing to pay where they wanna go and what they wanna buy whether is no more clearly articulated, consumer preference than the link you clicked. What did you wanna see? The thing that you click the link for what didn't you wanna see the thing that maximize shareholder benefit? That's it's an inaugural proposition. And the idea that we have ISP's who after all only exist, because they get giant, public subsidies, because, you know, if you're variety and you're going to operate a New York, and you don't have a public subsidy than you have to go around the city and pay people to dig up their basements in their streets, and you have to pay what could be trillions of dollars to dig up the whole city to wire with your, you know, going gold line, rand pure market network. You will never recoup because they are creatures of public regulation, and they because they t- they take giant amounts of public subsidy in the form of these rights of way they should have an obligation to deliver the things that we click on not the things they wish we'd clicked on an end. It's just that simple. And the fact that we're having this argument in America is hilarious. Not least because eighty seven percent of. Americans, both know what never Trollope is and wanted. And so we don't even have a split over whether or not network neutrality is the right or the wrong policy. You know, we talk a lot about America's, though were polarized, and we say, well, there's people who want universal healthcare, and people who don't and people want net neutrality, and people who don't the reality is that most of those policies enjoy clear, bipartisan majorities, and America's polarized not between the left and the right, but between a tiny elite of nest feathers in Washington DC, and the entire rest of the country. All right. So I want to take a step back because the conversation has been. Complex in certain sense and fastness certain sense, and that it other ways it's following a very, very clear path. And so I wanna I wanna or orient our our listeners for second. I started the conversation by wanting to talk about technology and, and actually talking about science fiction and Korea's response was you can't talk about any of that stuff unless you talk about that conomic context. And unless you talk about the political context, and in fact, all explanations, that you're going to have you're going to ask for whether technological or literary are still banned by these larger questions. They're not human nature questions there. Circumstance questions their economic questions, their political questions. So I want to ask what's going to seem like a far afield question to, to follow up on this. But in part. Purposes question I wanted to ask a long time ago, but I think but I think that it, it, it leads to, to, to more of this, which is the question that I thought I was going to end up starting the conversation with was as follows. How is a blog different than a magazine and what I wanted to. Sort of juxtaposed in the conversation was on. I wanted to ask I you, you commented until the you wrote that you post about ten up posts a day on Boyne point, and those posts are usually discreet. They don't necessarily have anything to do with each other. There's not necessarily a coherent narrative their responses to things you find pictures of, of the other websites. But also text off and science fiction stuff and your opinions and things like that. When you look at a blog like boiling point. Is it just a stream of consciousness experience of what happens to go in front of the poster? Wh when, when when the poster decides to put something online, or is there an overarching logic that, then we can analyze by all of these other things is a blog just a piecemeal experience based on the systems of life. What happens to go in front of someone's face? Or is a blog much more coherent in a way that appears invisible to a lot of the readers. So I think that what it's to, to answer with an answer that might start a little far afield and come in. I think internet exposes a lot of things that we think of as being clearly defined categories or actually much broader than we assumed, you know, book being a good example. I mean, we used to have, you know, maybe you would have the philosophical conundrum like is the IKEA catalog book. And if so, how is it a book like the bible as a book or like my mind confidence? And are they books like the phone book is a book? But now we have things like is Wikipedia a book, you know, and is a kindle book, that's in the kindle, unlimited program that was put together by Griff or hoping to goose their stats to get more money from from Amazon by doing keyword stuffing. That's only one hundred words long is that a book like so now we have this much, you know, the thing that we thought of as a unitary cata category becomes much larger. You see it happening in lots of different areas. Right. Like, when when Google had a policy that said, everyone had to use their real name on Google. Plus, it sparked a lot of anger about what a real name was, and there's a great article called things programmers, believe about names that are wrong and include things like everyone has a name everyone has one name. Everyone's name can be written. Everyone's name is written left, right? Everyone's name is read top to bottom, and so on, and, you know, there are examples of people who don't fit into any of those categories and, and, you know, eventually the exception start to swallow the rule, and so- blog is one of these things where where it seems unitary, but the closer, you look at it, the more diffuse and harder, it is to find that the, the border, where something stops being a blog and starts being something else is, but the one characteristic, I think you could say that, that at least blog shared in their early years is that they were not capital intensive, and so they were experimental right after a blogger came along, which eventually became part of Google. Bill, you could create a blog in a few seconds for free and that meant that there were lots of different things that became blogs that were created for different reasons by different people and the category very quickly became as varied as the category of book. So there are blogs that are as different from each other as the IKEA's catalog mine conflict zone, book, and my most recent novel are even though they're all recognizably, blogs, because they have the same content management system in there in reverse chronological order, and, and they permanent links on every post and all those things that were like formal characteristics of blogs when they started. So for me, my comp- my contributions to Boing Boing, which are different from everyone else's contributions to one because the collective effort, and there's half a dozen of us in one of the things that you see blogs doing is lower in coordination costs. So we can have a dozen of us who are all working on the blog for different reasons to post different things that have different priorities. And yet, it's still. Ably one blog for me. The blog is my commonplace book and writers have always kept these right? They, they make notes on in a book, or in a notebook about the things that cross their transom that seemed like they're relevant. That seemed like they might be synthesized later into something longer and more complex. But the problem with making notes for yourself is that you cheat, right? When, when you don't have to explain what you mean to a notional third party and just explain what you mean to yourself. You are powerfully tempted to say. Oh, I'm sure I know I'll know what I mean later, I can just jot down a few words and I don't know about you, but usually I'm wrong about how much detail and going to need to recall, what I meant later and I have no books full of cryptic notes that I have no idea what they mean. But when you write for an audience, you have to apply rigor. And so that's why these posts standalone is because they try to they try to tell the who what where when why how. Story of the fragment, and that itself, becomes powerfully pneumonic, it helps you remember it, it turns your subconscious into a kind of supersaturated solution of fragmentary ideas that can belong together and nucleate and crystallize into bigger, more synthetic pieces. But it also creates, not just the ability to bring it to mind. More easily in your memory, but it creates a database that searchable and that self annotate s- because readers who share your interest, come along and tell you how you're wrong, and tell you how you're right and tell you what you missed. And so this is like a magical commonplace book for me, and it's become. So integral to everything else, I do that, it, it is extremely idiosyncratic and specific. But there, I would I would hazard a guess that the majority of people who identifies bloggers, which is obviously, a very small number of people today, relative to its heyday a few years ago, decade ago that very few of them share that. My view of what a blog is good for. You. You've touched upon a problem that I was thinking about when you're talking about the philosophical conundrum of, of what a book is because a book means one thing, but the major difference between the book that we hold in our hand and the kindle is that the book that we hold in her hand, as is, is a Kodak's. Right. It's it's, it's this book structure with, with papers and, and, and, and a binding and what people don't realize about the kindle is that ultimately, it's a scroll and that it, it goes back to the older style of writing. And one of the advantages of Kodak's is it's easy to search. It's easy to find things. And one of the disadvantages of a scroll is it's incredibly difficult to search an incredibly difficult to find things. So kindle has a search function that is supposed to make it seem easier to find things but it's actually fairly difficult. You have to type things in you have to get the word, right? Right. With a Kodak's you can sort of flip through pages and find your notes. I think a blog suffers. From a potentially similar problem, which is when you have all of these posts, it's incredibly hard to find things, but you then have tags and you have keywords and you have people's comments. So is this isn't really wanted to when I start the question, but is a blog more like a codex in the sense that, that because it's a commonplace book, because you're trying to remember things, it's actually easy to scroll through things and find, or is the fundamental retrieval problem of a blog the same, which is that it deposits information, but it's incredibly hard to recall information, I, I wanna beg to differ about whether kindles are better or worse at searching and finding, and that I think is also the answer to your blog question, which is that kindles are worse at searching in the way that we search books and better at searching in the way that we search data and books are better at searching, the way we search books. And worse it searching in the way that we search data. So kindles for me. You know, I am I while I don't I don't own a kindle, because the digital rights management stuff, but, but electric books, I will often read a book as a book, and then when I want to review it, I will download the book and search it to find the quotes that I want to run out Rory's reference in my review, and, and that for me that, that synthesis. You know that, that, that benefit of having both right? The best of both worlds that for me is, is what I'm after. And I think blogs are really good at being searched like blogs and really bad at being searched like commonplace books, but, you know, I'm three thousand miles from home right now. My commonplace books, which had been in a storage locker in Wales for five years until two weeks ago or on a bookshelf, in my garage in Burbank, California, and I'm in Toronto, so those commonplace books are not available to me. Whereas my. Blog is available to me and anywhere. I am where there's data and you know, by the same token, it's true that if there was network censorship, or if there was something catastrophic in terms of our -bility to continue to use technology that I might lose access to that blog data. But it's also true that that blog data has been backed up by the internet archive, and that I can make a backup of it and store it on site or off site in the cloud, or on an encrypted hard drive, which would allow me to not only have a copy of it, that, I could access from anywhere in the world, but also access, and be sure that no one else could access it. Because if you use encryption well, it is extremely robust and reliable. And so it's, it's, you know, technology give it and technology take away here there isn't there isn't a. There isn't a better or worse. There's a better or worse based on the application. Right. Better for some things worse for others. And, you know, if my garage burns down, I lose those commonplace book. But we would need to have like a global catastrophic event like a cataclysm for me to lose my blog data. Right. So let's let, let let let's talk about the, the stuff that you said in passing the DR m the digital rights management. And let's talk about trying to control the information. So, so one of the things that happens with, with your blog, and of course, your activism in fighting copyrights, and sensor, walls, and things like that is all the stuff that you have is out there, right? And anyone can use it the way they, they see fit and anyone can make a certain amount of money off of it. In a certain way, there are people who respond by saying, this is exactly why you need DRM while you need digital rights management, because this is our intellectual property, and we need to make money off of it. And we don't want unauthorized people. To earn a living off of our hard work. We're entitled to your not you argue a that, that it's probably immoral but be it's completely ineffective. So what's wrong with digital rights management? And how does that show that our sense of in both of copyright and its relationship to intellectual property is just completely updated? I was with you, right. Until you said completely outdated, because I actually don't think that the problem with copyright is that it's outdated. I think that it's that we've evolved a new theory of copyright. That's terrible. Enough. Except that it's a modern in radical interpretation. So copyright historically was just the regulation framework for the entertainment industry. And you know, I'm a participant in that industry. But most people aren't and you couldn't violate copyright no matter how hard you tried for most of human history. Right. Unless you had a printing press or film lab. And so the rules, you know, they're crafted around the priorities and, and, and needs of the of the entertainment industry. And the way that we tested to see whether you were in the entertainment industry, whether you making an handling copies. And since that's the way, the internet works for some reason, we decided, well, we're going to regulate the internet, which is the single wire that we use to do free speech, and a free press and freedom of simply and access to civic, and political engagement, a romance and family life and employment and education. We're going to treat that as though the best regulatory framework for it is the one that we use to make sure that Walt Disney is made whole on Snow White, and the seven doors. And you know it's just. It's, it's incoherent. It's bonkers and, and it fails very, very badly. The thing about digital rights management, as you say, is that not only does it work badly. But it also fails badly as well. So it works badly in the sense that the laws that we have that back digital rights management in the US that section twelve one of the digital millennium copyright act of nineteen ninety eight here in candidates. Bill c thirty one of two thousand eleven in Europe, it's article six of the two thousand one copyright directive and so on that these laws, make it a crime to remove digital rights management, or tamper with it. Even if you're not violating copyright and so these are not laws that protect copyright. These are laws that protect the commercial desires of copyright proprietors, so copyright proprietors have always had limits on what they could do you may have seen paperbacks that say, you know, this book, must not be sold or lent. But that's like, that's how preference that's not a law f- you can off. Obviously sell and lend your books, right? I used to work in a used bookstore. We bought books that said that on the frontispiece all the time, didn't matter. You know, the, the commercial preferences, the publisher have no bearing on what the law says they don't get to write the law. They want a law that says you can't buy or sell Arlen books. They gotta get parliamentary congress to make that law. They don't get to just write it and make it the law. And what the R N does it says that things that are legal things that no parliament is ever band can be made illegal through the addition of digital rights management and this has been true since the first application for digital rights management, which was to prevent people from importing DVD's from territories, where they cost less so region. Coding with DVD's now obviously walking into a store in Mexico or India or China and buying a licensed DVD. That's, that's not a pirate one from the from a storekeeper at the price set by the creator of that movie. And then watching it on your television, that's the literal opposite of pie. Right. That's Abang copyright law. But because DVD players were designed to reject DVD's that hadn't been sold in the same country as the DVD player to use these region codes. They could take this commercial preference. That people would pay the local price for the DVD and not by DVD's from abroad, and they could turn it into law. And that is now expanded into things like Johnson and Johnson using digital rights management in their artificial pancreas to make sure that you only use the insulin that they have made available for that pancreas. And not a third party cheaper insulin and insulin prices are up a thousand percent over the last ten years and Johnson and Johnson's insulin costs more than that. And so this is a way to bootstrap copyright law into forcing you to arrange your affairs to benefit manufacturer shareholders. Even when it comes to your internal organs, and so that on the one hand is, is, as a matter of simple, Justice and economics. Completely terrible. And I will put the moral case for people being allowed to use their property in lawful. Ways that benefit them, even if it harms the manufacturer of the product, even if it's disparate by the manufacturer I will put that as being the more moral of making sure that manufacturers always make as much money as possible, even when the manufacturer the commercial operator is, is an artist whose work I care about. I think that, that your right to earn money off of your work stops when you sell it to me provided I don't break the law that your preferences, have no bearing on, on what my behavior should be. And if you don't like it, you need to go to congress and you know, it's not like artists haven't tried John. Phillips Sousa went to congress in nineteen eight and tried to get the record player band. He said, if these infernal talking machines are allowed to continue. We will lose our voice boxes as we lost our tails, when we came down out of the trees many points for being an early advocate of the still controversial theory of evolution through natural selection, but he totally was wrong. Right. And I'm glad John, Philip Sousa's. Ambitions were frustrated and that we still got records and we got sound recordings which he was foursquare against. And so I think that the moral case is easy, but the technical cases even easier because as I said before we're living in an age of universal computers computers that can run every program that anyone can express embolic Louis and that means that we don't have a computer that can run all the programs except for the ones that the artists would prefer, you not run the one that makes an illicit copy, or that allows you to watch out of region. DVD what we have our computers that can run every program, including those disparate programs, but which are designed to disobey their owners to hide how they operate from their owners and two. When they are owners asked them to do something we manufacture would prefer, they not do to refuse to do it. And in order to accomplish this as a technical matter, you have to make the machine obscure to the user, the user can't know how it works. They would reconfigure it to work for them, and you have to have programs that run on the computer that the user can't know about and can't. Stop and what we see over and over again. Is that designing computers that run programs that their users don't want, and that hide from their users is an invitation to all kinds of mischief? It invites manufacturers to do wicked things to users right to, to stop them from doing legitimate things, but invites criminals and spies to figure out how to hijack that facility to run programs that by design in the system. The user can neither know about nor prevent, and that in a world that has made of computers where your organs and your car, and your skyscraper all just computers and fancy cases. That is a piece of technological policy that is in my professional opinion, as a dystopia science fiction writer, just Opie an idea. So, okay. So, so I want to get to the meat of the matter here, both because the title of this episode is what does it mean to keep you in an ad free, but also because of your work with the electronic frontier foundation was? One of the arguments is going to be that at least in terms of health and the, the medical care that people have a right to live, right? To medicine, right. To health care, although that, of course, is controversial in that could shouldn't be any stretch of the as part of the book to part around, and as part of it. Right. And as part of the book about this. Yeah, but, but we don't have a human right to the internet. We don't have a human right to access computers. How do you how do you respond to that? And what does it mean to have free access to these things? Well, you know, so Stewart brand he, he coined this term information wants to be free. It was that the first hackers conference news on stage with Steve Wozniak, who created the first apple computers and. He he, you know, brand is a very smart, fellow really interesting character. And he said, you know, information has this contradictory dual nature because on the one hand information wants to be free and on the other hand information wants to be expensive. And as as interesting and chewy as that is kind of Zenko on about the nature of information. I think that it over the years has ended up creating more obscuring more than an illuminated, because it shifted our focus from humans to information we live in an information society, which is to say that every device that we have is fundamentally a computer in a fancy case. And when I say that, I mean like if you take the computer out of a car, the car stops, working, right? If you take the computer out of a building, right? Remove the computerized h back, you know, if you're if you're for example, in the prairies you freeze to death. And then after one summer your host fills with black mold and has to be stripped down to the foundation slab so that the, the most really do know what you're talking about. I grew up in the north east. I know what I'm talking about. Yeah. And you know that in that world like the most salient fact about these things is there information processing capacity, and that only becomes more true as years go by, and we'll only be true for the foreseeable future. And so in an information society, people want to be free just as they wanted to be free along. And the way you make them free is with free, fair and open information infrastructure. And you had a great kind of riff on all the different meanings of freedom, and I think that we could spend a whole program on each of them. But I think that there's like a there's, there's a dimension of freedom that we can talk about in, in pretty short order, that is, in fact, not particularly novel. It's ancient, and that applies to information and information processing that should be considered the kind of minimum viable freedom for an information society in which people are free, and, and it's the. Freedom to study, understand, modify and discuss technology and, and that freedom, it goes by another name, and that name is the scientific method and the scientific method is approximately synonymous with progress, right? We had five hundred years of stagnation in what, what we now, call science, which we then called natural philosophy and it wasn't because the people who were investigating scientific questions, the causal relationships in the universe where stupider than they are today. It was because they lacked a rigorous method because they were alchemists and alchemists never told anyone what they thought they learned unless it was someone they trusted to keep it a secret. And not discuss it with other people, which meant that their findings were only ever criticized by, by people who were friendly to them. And those people tend to go easy on us. And so between you and your friends you were unlikely to discover. The dumb mistakes. You've made. And this is why alchemists for five hundred years discovered for themselves and the hardest way possible that you really shouldn't drink mercury. Right. We call that five hundred year period, the dark ages, and we call the moment at which they began to subject their findings to scrutiny and critique by all comers everywhere in the world, including people who didn't like them in wish them harm. We call that moment, the enlightenment and the most radical thing about the moment we're living in now is, we are surrounded by systems, whose inner workings were not allowed to know nor investigate nor discuss and that freedom. They're, they're plenty of things that we can do wrong with those freedoms, but there's very little, we can do right without them. You know as Joe Lewis said when they asked him, why are you going to, to, to Europe to fight for Sam when you've been fighting on consignment home in the civil rights fight? He said while there's plenty wrong with the world, but Hitler's not helping right? We can get lots of things wrong with free fair and open computing infrastructure. But we can't start getting. The right until we have that. It your comments echo actually, our last episode, which was called, how does misinformation spread and it was about the social networks of knowledge. And when you open up the social networks to different ideas, and I don't mean a computer social networks that the, the social piss. Demolished when when you open that up you open you become more aware of error in a variety of ways, you use the word technology, and that's a word that, that people often don't think enough about. Because when we talk about technology, we think about cars, and electronics. But of course, the pencil is technology, putting two rocks together, as technology languages technology in the midst of your discussion about free information in the book information doesn't want to be free my favorite part. And I think the most moving part in the most persuasive part, talks about this, in a very, very different way. I'm actually I don't do this very often, but I'm going to read something from the book. It's on page one hundred. Seven, you've talked about people being spread out around the world. And you say, but today's DEA spoarer remains tightly bound together able to route around high long distance tariffs with voice over IP calling. And they enjoy services that could exist, only with the internet, including video calling and video and photo sharing. And then you talk about the fact that the studies show that, that the more connected people are the healthier and happier. They are in their whole lives. We are in a world where people are mobile, and where people are far away from their families, and this technology, cO, here's the family unit, and often, cultural and ethnic units as well. And friends in a way, that was never before possible. And it seems to me that while I don't know that you intended at this point. That's also an argument for the right to the human right to the internet because we. We do have a human right to family and to friends and to community. And if this helps that then how can we ever morally justify? Stopping access to some extent. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm inclined to agree with you, which is surprising that you heard me. I'm pleased to find that I don't even remember I didn't remember that passage off handle that when you read it. Of course, it came to mind, but yeah, you know, my, my father was a displaced person, so his as his parents, so that his parents were were Red Army deserters, who came to Canada and my grandmother lost track of her mother for fifteen years after they came to Canada. She had been a child soldier and the siege of Leningrad, who was evacuated in the third year and then inducted into the Red Army and my dad tells the story that, you know, makes the hair on the back of my neck, stand up about being in Toronto fifteen years later, and the phone ringing, and my grandmother answering it and saying, mama, mama, and, you know, hearing. Sorry I just choked up. It's crazy. And hearing voice for the first time in fifteen years, not having known as she was dead or alive. We're living in a moment of enormous displacement. But that story of, of just losing your people, that's not the story that we have any more, right? Like people don't live that anymore. They live smaller shorter versions of it. But, you know, today, we, we have different problems, you know, and the internet consisted from problems. But we don't have that problem in that, that is a great ill that has been in many ways, cured, the other problems are equally bizarre and terrible. I have a friend who told me about about going to see Doug Copeland speak after the Columbine shooting. And he's got everyone in the audience to, to, to make their phone ring at the same moment. And he said, that's what it sounded like in the gym during Colome Columbine because all of the parents. Who knew that their kids were being shot at in the school called their kids. That's a completely different problem that information gives us, but and we'll have to reckon with it. But it's interesting to pose it against silence. And not just a little silence. But decades of silence about the people you love after they've been imperil Douglas, Copland is one of the most influential writers in my life. And it never occurred to me to try and get him on the show. But I think I'm gonna do that. And what, what strikes me about this last turn of conversation, is that it helps reveal nuance about the earlier parts of conversation that I didn't really detect which is by making the debate about technology and by making the debate about the sort of obscure copyright laws and, and, and the nature of the computers and things like that we take it away from the human realm. And by taking it away from the. Human realm echoing something, you said, earlier obvious conclusions, especially obvious moral and policy conclusions. Suddenly seem more complicated unless obvious. And I think that if you tell the stories the two stories that you just told all of a sudden, the technological problems are tertiary, because it's always going to be the human problems that take precedent for us. Certainly for moral philosophers and policy is supposed to be a branch of moral philosophy in that sense. All of this was designed to obscure the humanness of it. And I think part of what you were trying to do when you were talking about the economics and the politics was to remind us that. While it takes a little while to walk down that path. Ultimately, these are human issues, and we have to deal with him from the human side in order to understand how we have to deal with them on the technological side. So I think that's true. But I think that there are elements in which the specifics of the technology really matter in making policy. So a good example would be working cryptography. So I mentioned before that, if you use cryptography well that it will give you secrets that you can keep in a very robust way. And when I say that, I mean like if you take a picture with your phone, and your phone has description, turn on, which most of them do now by default, you just if you bought a phone recently, it does then that data is encrypted. So thoroughly start a medically in the background in the blink of an eye that if every hydrogen atom in the universe were turned into a computer and they did nothing until the end of the universe. But try and guess what key was necessary to descrambler that photo? You run it of universe before you run out of keys, right? So we have working crypto, and it's pretty amazing. And it's what allows us to do things like validate the software update for your pacemaker or your car, or your H, faxed him or your banking, software, or the software that controls the fighter jet flying over you. Right. And, and it's what stops criminals from being able to read your Email or break into your systems. And so it's really really important. It also means that if criminals use it, well, that the police can't spy on them and not just a little, but a lot right that if you recover criminals phone and you can't somehow compel the criminal to give you the keys necessary to unlock the phone, and perhaps they're dead. Then you may never be able to get at that data. And since the Clinton years cops and authoritarians and governments and spies have been. Agitating to ban working cryptography because they said that it is more important to make sure that we can always fight criminals than that. Criminals are hamstrung in their ability to attack us. And in fact, they've insisted all along, including Rosenstein just resigned had insisted all along that somewhere out there was a kind of cryptography that worked perfectly when it was protecting good guys from bad guys, but failed catastrophically the incident, the instant it was protecting bad guys from good, guys. And you know a year and a half ago. Malcolm Turnbull, turbos, then prime minister of Australia gave a speech about this, where he said, the mathematicians, tell me that the laws of mathematics say that we can't design a system that protects good guys, but doesn't protect bad guys. And I say to them that the laws of mathematics are all very well and good. But I assure you, that in Australia, the laws of Australia are the laws of Australia. And, you know, the championship for the stupidest thing anyone's ever said about technology. It's highly competitive car. The he won. And now Australia has banned working cryptography. And so the human costs of banning working for a really substantial. I mean really, really substantial right at it puts us all at risk in ways that beggar the imagination, but it does so, because of a nuanced technical point and understanding that nuance technical point is hard. But unless we unless we combine our moral sentiments with an understanding of the world as it is. And as it may be right. What is in the realm of what we think of as possible based on over things we know and what we think of, is impossible basement, all the things we know then we just build castles in the sky, we talk about what we would do, if we could make cryptography that worked except when we needed it to fail, not what we should do because that cryptography will never exist. Is a free internet radically different, then a free world. And what I mean by that is. What, what universal right? Is what a human rights applies to the bad guys, as well as the good, guys, and even if that division itself may be problematic is a free internet just free for everybody and you're gonna have to. We're going to have to find different solutions to the problem of child porn, different solutions to the problem of revenge porn of trolling of compromise credit cards that it's not it's not an infrastructural solution. It has to be good, old fashioned police work for lack of a better term. Is that just that what a free internet looks like because free is free for everybody. So I think you're asking more than one question there. I always usually am. Yeah. So to start with a free internet is not the same as a free world, but it's the necessary, but insufficient precondition for free world in the same way that, like a transparent democracy is not necessarily well, governed one, but it is the precondition for good governance. Right. You have to know what people are doing and be able to criticize it and, and check them when they when they're lying and so on otherwise. Things will always go awry, not even because people are bad, but because they're fallible. And if no one is if you know if you're just living in your own little bubble. And no one gets to criticize you, then you will make dumb mistakes. You'll drink mercury. So that's the first part, the second part is a free internet, one in which we can't address things like revenge porn, which is not a term. I like very much there that, you know, non consensual nudity, or, or the, you know, images of the sexual abuse of children, where they have to be fought with police work. I mean, I think those are two very different questions because the nude image of consenting adult that is then shared without their consent, does, not have an underlying crime, right? Another words taking a picture of yourself naked and sharing with someone you love is. It's it's not a crime. The thing that's the crime is. Is that person or third party getting hold of it, and sharing it without your consent? Whereas images of the sexual abuse of children start with a crime, right? They start with an illegal act. And I would argue that if all we manage is to snuff out the sharing of the images without snuffing out the abuse that we have not gone far enough speaking, both as a human being a father, and so, therefore, of course, it has to involve police work because if your full response to finding images that depict the sexual abuse of minors, is to remove those images from the internet without doing police work, then the miners continue to victimized, and there is some sense, in which you've reduced their victimization, assuming that they're no, they're shot of that situation in the images of their of the crimes committed against them are no longer. Circulation, but in, in terms of our social priorities, I think it's very easy reach to say that our social priority should be to stop ongoing and future abuse of children ahead of, although not necessarily exclusive of the circulation of the evidence of that, that if we had to choose between those two that it's an easy choice. Right. And isn't isn't there a case to be made that, that if we spend all of our time trying to stop the circulation of the evidence than it, actually becomes harder to find people because they're on the dark web, there encrypting their conversations? And at least if it's a little more out there, and I'm not advocating, of course sharing of child pornography. But if it's out there it might be easier to trace people, and then get the, the, the stop the actual abuse as opposed to the evidence. Can there be a Kate Kent can a case be made for the fact that, that the more open and free, people are the easier, it is to stop that sort of thing. So there's a group of German survivors of sexual abuse, who, who are adults who were sexually abused as children, who formed a movement to oppose the use of national firewall to block websites in which the, this was being discussed or shared, or whatever, because they said that, that outta sight out of mind. And I kind of feel like this is an area where I wanted to for to survivors, that, that a someone who you know, touch wood, not a survivor of that kind of abuse never had to suffer through that kind of abuse. I, I wanna take my lead from people who've who've lived through it. And so that's the organized group, I know about. And that's their view. I think as you point out that there's that there's. You know that it's, it's not it's not one. There's no clear, an easy answer, rush, who the best way to manage it. And, you know, we could use anything slightly less emotionally charged, although not, not much less emotionally charged like the atrocities, committed against the hangup, or the so the ziti shared on social media, huge amounts of images of themselves being tormented by jihadis of human rights abuses. Visit on the by the jehadis as a way of galvanizing public opinion to support themselves and the same algorithms and moderators human moderators, who were charged with removing jihadi propaganda which often featured the same images began to take down their images to and the ZD I think correctly understood that their only chance for Justice would be to build constituencies around the world of people who understood what they were going through. And, and so I think that it's if nothing else an area that's very hard to do. Do well, and it's hard to do at scale, and it's very hard to distinguish between the people who want to tell their stories as a way of, of galvanizing people to action or healing themselves, and people who want to glorify the abuse, and it's certainly something that's very hard to do when you're a giant company, right? It's very hard for, for something the size of Facebook to do because they find it hard to understand the context, there's so much of it that they're, they're always going to catch some dolphins in their tuna net. And I think it's a pretty good argument for decentralising communications. Right. If we had more decentralized, communications, it might be harder to find the bad speech, but it would also mean that people of goodwill, who were running services, would that knowing all the speech end its context in that service would be more tractable for them. And it's, it's I think argument for, for a more centralized internet overall in, in terms of, of the nonconsensual sharing of new. Unity of a people who, who made the pictures consensually, but then found the shared nonconsensual again. I think that like there is there to dimensions here. One is the prevention of revictimizes of that person by having their images shared, and in general. I it's an area where I think, you know, the, the notice and takedown regime is not a terrible one. Right. Where like prior to the internet, if there was something published that you believed was bad speech of some kind of infringe, copyrighted infringe, some other right that you had, you would have to get a court order to get it removed. When I worked in a bookstore, if you thought one of the books, we sold infringed, your copyright, or defamed, you, you didn't get to just March into the store. Grabbed me from behind the cash. Register walked me over to the bookshelf and demand that I removed the book, right? You would have to produce a court order before the book would disappear on the internet. If you feel like you have been, you know, you've been maligned or your rights have been trampled, under things like. Mutations decency act in the digital copyright act, you can use takedown notices to make things remove arguably so easily that invites abuse, you know, we've seen, for example, police departments whose body Cam footage of them committing violent acts, illegal violent acts have used false, copyright claims to, to make things disappear from the public eye at least for a time often at critical junctures when, when it's a matter of public debate. But I think that take down is, is a good system for for addressing some of that revictimizes harm. But as with the sharing of images of the sexual abuse of children, I think that the criminal pursuit of people who intentionally share nonconsensual nude images or images that are that are big shared nonconsensual, even if the images were consensual that pursuing those people is actually the more important thing. You know, it's like asking do weenie blinds to stop people from peering through our windows with telescopes. Or do we need social norms with backed up by legal regimes that make it both unacceptable and a legal to stare through your window with a telescope and I would say, the blinds are great, but ultimately the thing that protects us from people looking through our windows is the norm in the law. I. We're running out of time. But I I wanna go back a second to the thing that you mentioned about people using images of a victim, sometimes for advocacy, and sometimes for pre and interests. And there's and there's two sort of internet pop culture notions that this makes me think of the first is cult rule thirty four which is if it exists, there's porn of it, and the second is posed law, which says that it that it's impossible to tell the difference between sat if something is extreme enough. It's impossible to tell the difference between something that, that that has meant seriously in something. That is, satire, are these the same sort of problems are these all pissed them. Logical problems problems of knowledge problems of interpreting people's intentions. Does this permeate the internet? I know it's very hard to express sarcasm through Email and sarcasm through. Right. Is is is there a fundamental? And perhaps, even unique a pistol logical problem for the internet that it makes it harder to understand people's intention -ality, or is that again, sort of just a, a manifestation of the larger problem that we as human beings have of, of paying attention interpret, and interpreting a other people. So I think that there's at least two things going on. So one thing about the internet. Is that it exposes cultural interchange to people who weren't privy to the initial context? Right. So anyone of us can be, you know, an anthropologist hiding in the bushes watching two people do something that we don't understand, you know, is famous essay by cliff GARRETT'S about how anthropologists who see, you know, one person, wink, at another person can't know whether that like it's flirting or it's a sign of aggression, or one of the one of them just got grit in there. I and you have to, you know, come down out of your perch. Yeah. And go and ask them why why they winked and they may not tell you the truth, or they may not know the truth, but you'll be more eliminated than you, would if you just sit there watching them. And so the internet definitely exposes us to a lot of material who's context, we're not privy to that. We can't. No, I think of queer friends of mine who use words like fag in conversation with one another, but then who have that taken out of context, and who are accused of being homophobes themselves. And how that is clearly like that. The removal of context is being used sometimes in bad faith to, to arrive at an incorrect impression of what the nature of the of their interchange with their colleagues was. But then the other thing that happens is that there is a doctrine among the bigger platforms that militates against keeping different contexts for different communications, Mark Zuckerberg very famously. He said, if you act in one way with one person and another way with another person, then you're two faced and that Facebook doesn't want you to have to identities that you show to two different people because it's dishonest. Well, like I would hate to be that guy's mom because clearly he talks to her the same way he talks to his boss and his wife and his daughter. Right. If that's the if that's your if that's your view right, that you should talk to everyone the same way and you should only have one context, but you know what? Soccer really means. Is it's just self serving if you only have one context, it's easier to figure out how to target you with that. And, and everything else is just, you know, philosophical window-dressing backed form rationalization, but to the extent that we have these, you know, malignant context collapses, where it's hard to figure out what people mean and it leads us astray and puts us in conflict with each other. At least part of that is a deliberate choice, right? Someone said, well, that'll probably happen, and it will be sad for the people involved, but will certainly make more money, if we engineer it, so it does not, because we want them to be in conflict with each other, because it makes it easier for us to spy on them. And that's their misery is a price where willing to pay. I think it's a conscious choice. No one came down off amount with two stone, tablets saying, you know, thou shalt, stop rotating dine, log files from nine web server and instead, mine them for actionable market intelligence. He's our choices that people made and they could made different. Ones. I think we have to stop your I don't wanna stop here. I would like to talk for another two three hours are engineers kill us, our audience will, I don't think we'd lose the audience, but we need to take we need to put a period somewhere in the paragraph. Alright Hori I this conversation was so interesting. And so challenging, and was so nuanced in ways that I didn't expect I I'm thrilled and I'm pleased, and I know I'm going to be thinking about this for very long time. Thank you so much for joining us on why. Well, thank you. I really enjoyed it too. It was absolutely my pleasure. I'm honored to have been to put on your show. You've been listening to Corey, Dr Jack Russell Weinstein on y philosophical discussion day life. I recommend corey's the two books that I've with information doesn't want to be free and his new book, radicalized, which is for novellas in one. And when you read it, I would like you to tell me, if my theory is correct, that the two main characters the main character and the character in the first novella on authorize bread. Are in love because I think they are anyway, you've been listening to why philosophical discussion everyday life will be back right after this. Visit IPL's blog P Q, E D, philosophical questions every day for more philosophical discussions of everyday life comment on the entries and share your points of view with an ever-growing community of professional and amateur. Philosophers, you can access the blog and few more information on our schedule our broadcasts and the why radio store at WWW dot philosophy and public life dot org. You're back with philosophical discussion of they life. I'm your host Jack Russell Weinstein. We're talking with Corey doctor about the internet and about how to keep it free. And what that might mean in the first place. I think a lot of the listeners will have the same experience of this episode that I did, we started out thinking, we're going to have technical conversation had a little conversation about science fiction, and then bam. Political theory, economics affair amount of cynicism. It was pretty intense. Now this philosophy pay dirt live for this kind of stuff, but it can be a little overwhelming. But here's the thing, that's what the internet is in our life. We think of it as tool. But when we take back, take a step back. We think of it as a tool, and we take a step back. We realize that has permeated every aspect of every part of our day. And how do you talk about something like that? Without just exploding all of your ideas all over the place now. That's not a criticism of Corey, I think his comments were tremendously brilliant. It was more about me and my sense of how to move from a narrow conversation. Too expensive conversation. Very quickly. These are the best conversations. These are the conversations that stick with us. These are the conversations that you listen to over and over again. And you think, oh, I missed that. Oh, I thought that, oh, this leads to that. Let me connect the dots and the thing about the internet is that whatever it means in our life. It overlaps so many different aspects that there's no way to really talk about just one part of it. I learned a lot from Corey today. Most particular. Early learned that to have the conversation about technology. You really have to have it in the political and ethical, and historical context. But in order to have the discussion about the context, you also have to have the discussion about the technology, you can't do one without the other. Now, I'm reasonably technical guy. I understand the latronic to a certain extent. I can fix a lot of my computers. But the wide expanse of how the internet works is beyond me and now I realize I have to know a lot more about it. I realized that in order to understand the philosophy behind the internet. I have to understand the infrastructure and the mechanisms as well, that's daunting task, but it's a wonderful task because it's going to put me in contact with a lot of new people and a lot of new ideas. And in the end, I think it'll be rich ground for future. Philosophical discussions that I will need a lifetime to explore. And that's the best gift of all you've been listening to Jack Russell Weinstein on y philosophical discussion everyday life. Thanks for listening as always. It's an honor to be with you. Why is funded by the institute for philosophy in public life prairie public broadcasting. And the university of North Dakota's college of arts and sciences and division of research economic development. Skip would our studio engineer. The music is written and performed by Mark Weinstein and can be found on his album, Louis soul. For more of his music, visit jazz flute Weinstein dot com or my space dot com slash Mark Weinstein philosophy is everywhere. You make it and we hope inspired you with our discussion today. Remember as we say at the institute, there is no ivory tower.

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Episode #41  BogiDope is helping to navigate the stressful process of transitioning from the active duty to the Guard or Reserves

The Pilot Network Podcast

40:29 min | 11 months ago

Episode #41 BogiDope is helping to navigate the stressful process of transitioning from the active duty to the Guard or Reserves

"Welcome to the podcast co hosted the PODCAST and Obviously Adams out today but I am so lucky to be joined with John McFarland the founder of Bogie Dope to show John. Welcome and things probably the best way for us here about what it is. You guys do is let. Let's If you don't mind telling us a little bit about your background and where you come from and then and then we can kind of hear a little bit about the business and what you do. Yeah absolutely so My sort of background starts at four State University. Where when they're in had really no idea what to do. No interest in the military aviation really at that point and So we got struck dog after nine eleven so it up on my freshman year of college and this sort of and and I knew it will become a fighter pilot and so from that moment on Did a bunch of research and from what was out there at least reliable time. It seemed like the Navy was actually the best course of your own to Atlanta Fire Slot and so I heard that myself up kid because they'll competitive for a navy. Ucs packet out. There was going to take out gun Way of things and one of the things I try to do to make myself Pablo's going get appropriate certificate and so just sort of Dumb luck that my first instructor Happens you know about the full thing called air. National Guard and National Guard worked. At that time I had no clue. I did enough research into active duty to know what the true options were and never heard about the garden. Oh that no through airplanes But he basically told me that you can apply to any state. Apply any specific type. Airplanes fly directly to that water at. They've lied certain jet that you want Then you'll go to train to fly that specific airplane and so it was taking back. I was way too good to be true and once I realized that it was legit. Sort of change everything for me. I transferred schools transferred from Florida. The University of North Dakota. So that's a trade for the begin change for anyone there've been North Dakota in the winter Family up there wasn't too extreme compared to what most people probably do Big Aviation School got agree and and Flying Airplanes. Come up the eye and as soon as I graduated thrown out applications. Just any guard. Unit that flew fighters Out there working to get picked up flying teams and since been flying at the teams for lost ten to twelve years Picked up an airline job about four years ago as well so available to done a bunch of full-time Guard stuff then got a little taste the part time life as well and now back on full time orders while around bogeyed up on the side. Walk very cool so that. That's a long long journey there. I know one of the things. I kind of Introduction of the ARTERIES IMPALA TRAINING. I had a couple of guard pilots that that would straight for nurse unit into pilot training and I had no idea that there was a different route other than just active duty and those guys the most relaxed out of everyone in the class. New exactly what they were going to And they just knew. They had to get through the academics stuff. And then activator was just all on all this fun. Yeah I I still remember the story of my present Trains in and and we are a lot of guys. Guys GUYS. Smoke yes All kinds of that were there. And we're casual already at the base for several months before our cloud started and so they all knew each other they have much better military varying than I did. I had about six weeks elder transplant. So I barely my uniform on and these guys are Seattle. All all the answers because they'd been in for so many years compared to me And then quickly realized that they didn't know about the guard and most people don't sort of like a slow kept secret about opportunities out there and soon as they realized that they spent four years. Buckner out to Trying to get one of these fighters plots or pilots lots that matter To realize that there was maybe a differ alternatives out there that gave them more flexibility and options road. I think it was an eye opening experience for for all and I think that's the biggest reason why we're we're so excited to kind of start down this relationship with bogus dope and you and learn from from what you're teaching people because it's one of those things that I wish. I had known a long time ago. It might not necessarily changed the route that I had taken. But as a reservist now presents an option that if people knew about sooner there's definitely different paths you can take and knowing what those are pretty important so that kind of leads me into. I think my question is you're the founder Bogey Dope. Do you mind telling us a little bit about what the businesses and and your entrepreneurial path and and how that came to be and what you guys do sure sure so. Bodo and the most simple term helps current inspiring military pilots get into or out of the military so We knew how difficult it was for us to get information about the guard and reserve and we were looking into it and we WANNA help bridge the information gap by providing information to people. They're trying to make careers that guy's trying to get a lot or people coming off active duty that really have this bubble of fear around them of the unknown of leaving uncle. Sam's sort of comfort again that. Hey Chakma person two teams. I resolved Oman to go to the unknown of what airlines Dr Whatever that might be so we want a person power people just information so we started to make articles about just explain how the process works. Explain how they opportunities Have come down the Pike and whatnot. We wanted to consolidate the information. That was out there. So surgeries job boards. So one of the biggest challenges I started was every squadron and had a different hiring process. And so there's about a hundred and seventy five different line. Unit between the Garden Reserve and each of them hires slightly differently at different times different requirements. And you really gotTa do a bunch of work just to figure out who's hiring win and what they're looking for and so we try to to sort of create a job or they'll allow people come to one place with the opportunities where Out there for them in their family And then the earth thing was that we realized that we made a bunch of mistakes through the hiring process ourselves as far as how. Wait our applications dumb mistakes made interviews Simple things of what to wear or not the clean shaving sometimes because we thought that having stubble more cool Than not and just little things like that that no one tells you about near civilian try and get one of those laws but also. There's a bunch of mistakes that we saw from active duty. is Trying to get into the guard as well just things that that no one top them before because the military is around. Teach you how to get a job someplace else that they've never had sort of resume never had to go to a job interview to get into active duty for the most part and so there's just a lot of things that we noticed through the process of being both applicants and then obviously the other side of table do mock interviews within the squadron that we figured we can put some information out there helping people out And try to make this thing not such a secret that there is a better way of doing this. You can serve flying any airplane. You want fighters heavy helicopters. You can do just like any opportunity. You want within the Air Force Do it with way. More flexibility to go full time part time go get civilian job or staples on the entire way so Hopefully we're informed people in helping them pick the true choice they want. I think that brings up a good point. You kind of alluded back the interview process but especially the fact that it's different for every unit one thing that I didn't know until I was a part of a unit is that's really driven locally by that unit for their needs when they need it they hold their own higher than boards or their own. Irish forty Any real interview you. They want to figure out if you're the kind of person that they want to be part of that family for a long time. 'cause you can end up being in the Garden Reserve Unit for much longer than we would have ever spent in squadron. Yeah yeah absolutely. So as far as the every process you know every place a little bit different you have different personalities and they they're not HR specialist so the type of questions that you typically get in airline interviews and that kind of stuff might be slightly different. We're talking about going to a bar reserve unit and every year. They're going to be a little bit different because they have different. Personalities are sitting on the board. That made never done this before. And they're all looking for sort of certain things right and I always said there's five basic things these boards are typically looking for one at least for ubt Guy Are you going to be able to make it through ubt successively to are you going to be a good officer leader? A contributor to modern three d any specific passion or connection or at least understanding what the mission is that they do for you have any connections through that area that are gonNA keep you sort of geographically located close by for a long time and then five and I call this for the overarching question. That goes for both UBT and active duty Guys as well as are you. Likeable do fit into their culture. Because like you said these guys are going to be in that unit theoretically for the next ten and twenty years until ended a career so There's not usually a ton of movement within the guard reserves. I is changing squadrons. That option exists But guys are GONNA be there for a while so they want to really do their due diligence to make sure that you're right fix. It is a joint family for for a long time. You mentioned the geographically tied area. Is that more important for the guard versus the reserves. Have you seen I don't think that doesn't necessarily a gutter reserving. I think it's more of a were. You're applying to things. So that is if you're applying to the unit is in the Mid West the has harsh winters Ui North Dakota the first into harm reduction in Montana and so when you're talking about those kind of northern states that you know it's it makes it tough to live and not climate for of course the year they want someone that's from. That area has ties to that kind of region because they want to make sure that you know we were getting into and they wanna see that. You're going to be there for a long time. So I think that there's always an advantage for saying that you have some serve connection to an area A requirement for all places. It's definitely better selling point. For those places that are a little bit harsher climates. We started talking about places that you think people are. GonNa be desirable places to live like for you Florida People in California kind of warmer climates than it's not as big as Dr as they sort of assume that once you get their chance to do believe it or are probably relatively slim so bogey dope. Is it a little bit interesting? You don't really hear that very much In the tanker world for instance but and definitely not in the world. Do you mind kind of talking about a little bit about what the term bogey dove means. And how the metaphor applies to to what you guys do there. Sure so Bodo is essentially a tactical aviation term Amongst services and and really what it means if you're a fire guy and you're out there flying a mission and you get really fixated on target or you merged with another airplane and it makes you know you guys are basically in this one on one fight to the death. Theoretically that the ended thing you've probably lost say The battlespace around you were the next target is what you're next. Opportunities are dot com and stuff and so but we bid that they radio Paul request each Bogie Dope for tactical controller. Two points you out to the next target of interest and so so the metaphor for the career aspects of it is you may be in that one on one merge with whatever you're about right now at least what you think your career path is GonNa be and what we WANNA do. Is WE WANT TO BE SORTED OUT? Lifeline points out other parts opportunities other places. You can go career if you lose on all the options that are available for you and so The real way. It's spelled B. O. G. E. Y. D. O. P. E. Bogie though and then we change it to be GI GOP e mailing. Because it's sort of a cool spin on the name but also because the the POGGI doe website was already taken for the original spelling so we had to change it anyway as game. Go about getting the GERMANIC anyway. So it it. I think it was a good change. The logo looks great So how big is your team in in? And what kind of background see us? How 'cause it obviously you're you're looking at a lot of poetry guys and and maybe gals coming back duty and and all sorts of different Range of experiences. So who's on the team? And and how do you guys work sure? We got a relatively small team right now but actually searching for for more air religion got about five right now of not just consultants the Computer Guy who military background in the army infantry Actually we got some People help out with SEO and social media stuff being the volunteer basis out there and Jason who writes a lot for U. P. N. Has Been Gracious enough to US. As a child kinsman information out there on we got a couple of guys that do complications. Muslim are guys that are flying fighters right now of varying backgrounds of your guard babies so the band guard their entire life or come from active duty and transitioned to the Garda Reserve and after that low experience out there but Actually you know right now. Being January first not sure on the air but yesterday was was our busiest day of the entire year as far as like sign ups. And so we're booked out the next couple months which is great but also reason that we need more consultant. So you know. It's one of the reasons that we're really excited about working. You guys is at such a passionate group of Aviators Getting some of that action might want to help out. The next generation of gardens or pilots would be a huge up in Franklin. It's a great side Gig for any airline pilot out there. 'cause it's all things started when I was doing my first year the airlines and on the road and looking for something productive to do I was passionate about helping guys out. What so if anyone's interested Hit me up after this and let me know and we love to hear from people of all different backgrounds certainly were lacking right now and in heavy world as far as getting some of those guys with experience that can help out as well so You guys are interesting since gigs. Let Me Know Brooks Great. Yeah the pilot side. Hustle is something that we definitely support around here you know about entrepreneurial spirit and and being able to educate in pants or it also you know whatever we we talk a ton about Preparing for your airliner view and the transition from active duty making assumptions that you go directly to a major airline but One of the things. We really wanted to work with you and your team was. There is a considerable effort that needs to be put into that guard reserve interview as well. Because that's a big piece of the puzzle if you WanNa continue your service which we absolutely support about and then I'd do it You know after you leave active duty and I it doug tells in nicely an airline career for all sorts of reasons but This is definitely something that you don't want to take for granted or does role and thinking that you know you. You've got automatically because we tend to fifteen years of prior service flying the same airplane. You're definitely walking into a different environment that you need to be fair for and take seriously we also talk about what we mentioned the pilot side Hustle and entrepreneurial path for you is the owner of this company and getting it off the ground and what kind of challenges you face or along the way. You're kind of bringing this team together and bring an idea to Parisian. Oh man where do you WanNa Start? We could do a whole just on the You know I can. We'll do it all on that later. Yeah perfect perfect I consider this sort of my trial by fire like NBA. So instead of going and getting it from an education or like an NBA. A sort of jumped right in and try to figure it out. Insure you guys or same. Way But I'm passionate about entrepreneurship about creating something that helps people and stuff and so sort of jumped in and probably same as you know like you don't know what you don't know until you try to do it and when you see all these different businesses and websites and why they do that stupid they did. They should change that You start to realize that easier said than done. 'cause you gotTa have some sort of technical know how to do that so probably one of my biggest challenge has been ongoing is just sort of my lack of technical knowledge of coding and Web Design. And that kind of stuff. So that's been sort of an ongoing education trying to learn that We have a great computer guys. Name's Brad he was Army Nipah. True actually shot in Iraq and and has an amazing sort of war stories until so he's passionate about helping guys Fulltime job as well and so he can't get to the kind of stuff we wanna do all the time so For someone that likes being in control as any of US pilot do It's hard sometimes to realize that you WANNA make a change but you gotta wait on somebody else. That has the technical know how to do that. So just learning coding and a tech part of it. certainly been a challenge. You continue to be a challenge. As far as getting things done in a timely manner and the other big challenge is just sort of the time that it takes to do consultations and do business stuff on top of normal job so one of the things. That was nice. Things started being that the airline pilot doing this is it was a really productive thing to do on the road but now dot com military orders for the next year or two before. I go back to the airlines. You know doing a full day watering and then coming home and doing this night I've got a two year old at home and a wife. That would very much like help with a two year old and so It's it's always a challenge. It's sort of juggling all with different priorities that we our lives and and this is certainly a challenge. Another thing continues to grow as it is That's flowing more reasons or just one more reason why I wanted to find some other passionate guys that that can really help out. And and allow us to focus on other parts of the business. That's always the toughest part with Running a side hustle or side business and or even. If it's your fulltime gag is that balance of the Karen feeling of the family and the counter beating the business and sports team and value. And that's something that Here at GPS we really worked with. Fortunately I have the technical background do everything myself but even that gets to be a challenge but I have those things going on so i. I'm managing to borrow the Tech Guy. You know inducing this. An ultrasound are no but So overall what who? Who is your target audience? I know there's a spectrum of the the new Aspiring PILOT wanted to go to potty training and this is their first experience with the military entirely. And then there's obviously the the pilots are coming off a long stint bacteria looking for whatever. The next step is what specifically in someone? That's coming to you guys What do they look like? Where the come from? I'll come from all different backgrounds with you especially in the ubt house so really anyone that wants to flying the guard reserve for that is go to ubt Four pilots lot out there or someone transitioning from active duty. Whether it's Air Force Navy Marine Corps. We have a lot of army guys pop up trying to transition. We are here to help. Give THEM THE INFORMATION. They need to make decisions for the. Up Guys There's a lot that they don't know and retry to help. Steer them direction. That sort of makes them as competitive as possible gain while these coveted spots and for active-duty guys. There's really just a lot of fear and we mentioned earlier but when you live the last ten or twelve years in active duty bubble where everything's essentially been provided for you than leaving and although. Hey the money looks great airlines. Make you not leap and convincing their family and to make that leap with you. Especially if you're currently stationed overseas when I got the not only give up as active duty but you gotta move home. GotTa find a way to put food on the table. There's a lot of fear there and so what we wanted to do is be that trusted resource that helps alleviate that fear answers the questions you have so you and your family can make an educated decision and that means they an active duty. That's great that means getting out of the military altogether. Hey We're here's worship during that as well And if that means transitioning to guard first and then looking at airline opportunities or whatever else you WanNa do later then that's one of the great things As you know that the garden reserve provide is flexibility and a way of sort of. There's nothing else easing into that transition where you're still in the military. You're still getting the same same. Their plan and do's and stuff but now you have the flexibility to go and those other bigger light changes down the road. So we're religious here to provide information to anyone that wants to wants to serve that had served and wants keep on flying airplanes. And that's important thing for someone who's on actor you know as well as you can be a full-time guardsmen are reserved us and there's all sorts of different status. You can be on long-term orders a technician or arts in the reserves Or all sorts of different ways that you can be full-time or you can be part time Sometimes you can be extremely part-time and and other times you can. In the reserves they call it troughing. And you could sustain yourself with our time work when whenever it comes up and picking up whatever. Ty or or flight happens to exist. I think in the guard. What do they call that bumming? Garbage disregard them. Yeah so as as you start to get some of these pirates. Let's say some of the active duty pilots who are coming coming out. Who will what are some of the most common questions you hear from them if you could tell a large portion of them right now you kind of had some of those questions off of the past? What do you hear the most well? There's a specific question. There's a specific theme to the questions. I allude to and probably the answer I give them. It's okay it's GONNA BE OKAY. Like don't be scared. Make the transition. It is better for you like I think it'd be very very difficult to find anyone that made the transition from active duty to the guard reserve or active duty to the airlines. That wishes they were still active. Duty Right now But they all had that same fear that you have. They've all had to go. Tell their spouse This is something that they thought was a good idea for and convince them that this is going to be the right move even though they didn't know when the next paycheck is going to be for a little while. And and so we alleviate a lot of those concerns with and that sort of a big part of that that comes up. Other things are typical duties. I just figuring out where they can apply and convincing them that they should apply anywhere they WANNA go. So a Lotta guys and this is one of the things that we're trying to solve as well or at least make a little bit more widely acceptable as is in the past. It's sort of been a network Kind of application process like. Hey if you have a buddy at water and that's in a guard reserve unit and you happen to know these Dr are. You could talk to your buddy maybe interview. They maybe aren't even doing interviews. Just sort of. Hey if you happen to notice guys by the Mandate O'hare somebody and so it's her like good old boy network of getting these slots and now for active duty side that make this transition. You might be a guy that knows. Nobody in the squadron. But if you're the right rentals you should apply there. You should expressed interest because there has never been a better time to get into one of these units. Especially if you didn't think you were competitive before so one of the things that we've seen in particular at our unit is pure. Say Three years ago if you were a Navy or Marine Corps fighter guy like the chance of getting hired units. You've got the best credentials. Were very very low. Just because there were so many active-duty guys recurrent qualified to choose from now is completely different. Airlines are hiring. There's many Duty Guys to build the garden reserve squadrons and so at least fireside. Like if you're gossiping from branch this is a great time to go get hired and I don't know how it is. That's early in the heavy world or your unit but I know that there are opportunities are abundant right now for going out there and so having sort of know how going out for your name out there and really opening up some opportunities for you and your family that you maybe didn't think existed a few years ago it was great in and that is what is important is there are lots of opportunities right now and units do need qualified arts especially instructors as there are certain to hire their force trying to turn on the Faucet of new production of pilots to account for some of the shortages. That are we're experiencing now expecting down the road as well. What are your top recommendations for a pilot? Who's maybe been ten twelve years on active duty looking to make that jump to the guard reserve is evaluating What unit is available and what aircraft? They WanNa go to or or just how to. Let's say they don't know anyone at a unit in particular. What would be your recommendations as to the best way to go about that surface Russell? Well a lot of guys that make. The transition from active duty are trying to make a transition to the guard reserve. Because they think it's going to be a better situation to their family which most of the Times it always will be and so allow the first part of figuring out where they wanna go is going to be. Was Your Family. Like is there a family connections with certain region of the country If you're planning on doing The airline job and you don't necessarily have a specific region or looking for then maybe WANNA look for a guard reserve. That's really close to a city. That's going to be an airline domicile. They might be able to apply to. That's sort of big one that you're going to do both these jobs for the next eight to ten years. You know you want to minimize the pain of commuting and then I can stop as much as you can as as you're well aware of so It's one of the things that we have a map function on our website that allows you to to basically show every single major airline domicile for sort of five big airlines And then you can look up. All the garden reserve squadrons that are around that area and whatever airplane so you can geographically figure out where you want to focus your attention and then obviously the other big piece of what he won't fly so if you're heavy guy wine to buy the same thing you blue and active duty there's going to be opportunities for you if you want to transition something else. There's opportunities for that too so it's sort of everyone's a little bit different. That's why it's important to talk to somebody that has the know how of figuring out. Hey how a position myself based on what my desires are to find the best unit and then once I find the best unit for me get still competitive to actually weigh in slot. It's great what are some of the best ways that maybe an activity individual can prepare themselves for or making that job for I know there's a whole discussion chase which is college front and whether that can get now on and that's maybe a topic for another time in our interaction with H as been amazing But from your perspective. What's the best way that the the individual pilot can take care of preparing their own record and resume? Sorts of things borders most of these units looking for nearly what? I think the first thing to think about it. This is something you want to do. And this goes for any opportunity any career. But it's were saying that as early as you can you reputation matters so the reputation you forge throughout your active duty time is going to follow you to the garden reserve allocation process. Like you can have the best looking up kitchen. The best recommendation all kinds of stuff. That could look Christine. Perfect but we are going to due diligence and call back to your previous watering and try to talk to somebody that has flown with you and work with you to see what kind of person you danger live ten years. 'cause that's tell a lot about we're going to be for the next ten years. I'll be more than a strong interview or application. So the sooner you can start for gene a really good reputation as being a guy that gets things done. A Guy doesn't complain. It's a good team player. All around good person That will follow you to the guard. And that's important to stars early possible. The next thing from there is is just that Start the process earlier new thing so if you know that when you're going to be back to duty is you know two thousand twenty one for now this game. Two Thousand Twenty. It's it's time to start the application process now and so that means showing interest in a unit laying them. Know that you're interested. You don't know when they're hiring boards are going to be or when you're hiring. So maybe they're hiring. Board is going to be this month and they don't have another one for another year year and a half will. It's okay to get hired a year before he leaves out to duty most guys that we hired our unit get hired six months a year and a half before they're actually able to join the unit and so that helps the unit out because it gives us an idea who's going to be on the books in the future and helps you out because not concern playing your life accordingly but the other part about that is sometimes it takes more than one attempts to get into the unit that you want and showing sort of that effort of being there once maybe they hired somebody else this time around then show up again the next year when they interview and sure show that grit resiliency to really be part of the unit. That goes a long way. And and there's more than half of those guys that we hired my turn unit. I've had to interview multiple times. But you gotTa have a timeline to be able to interview twice On there so start ordering you think And then use professional help to make sure that when you're ready to apply that application in your interview this quarter what you don't want to just show up the door and expect to get immediately you want to put some time and effort into establishing a relationship with the people in that unit and that because the family usually when it came down to it and you need to make sure that you're a good bit they need to make sure you're a good fit for them but you also need to make sure that that US wallet absolutely and then I a lot of actor you guys. I don't think you know the term getting schooled at the process. That getting scrolled can sometimes take up to six months. And that's something that you can initiate long before you're ready to actually leave duty and and start processing. You can't get in by unit until you have been scrawled and that's essentially a congressional process. I think that that allows you to transfer commission over to the guard reserve to A. That's probably all. The idiosyncrasies of that process are probably podcast topic in and of itself vermilion article. We should get jason the right for us. Yeah definitely put it on both websites. Then yeah absolutely so seven back to the big picture we talk a lot about interviewed prop and how to prepare for your airline their view what makes Bogie Dope and and how where your focus is different than other some of the other interview. Prep services out there. Well the biggest differences. We are the only one that we've of that specialize in military application process So we specialize in garden reserve flying opportunities. Doesn't mean that we won't talk about what that transition to the airline is like and how to Bass my lifestyle and all that kind of stuff. If you have questions about that we can certainly help out there but if you WANNA do airline up. There's some great companies out there that specialize in that and that's their lane and and we will tell you recommend If the question ever comes up but we are the people that want to help you and your family make the transition to find the perfect guard reserve unit for you guys for a long-term of longtime service and flexibility to really do whatever it is that you WanNa do out there. Yeah and that's something that we really focus on at teepee on the Ataman I continuing your service is really important factor. Duty no longer is. What's right for your family? There are lots of ways to continue to serve Whether that's twenty or longer you know there's there's really are and I think what you guys provide in terms of situational awareness in and just a resource to where you aggregate some of that information into one place. That's pretty valuable. And that's why we're one of the biggest reasons that we're happy to work with so it as we start to wind up a little bit. I know your time is super valuable. You know as you're getting getting started with the New Year when you think back to all the work that you've put in to building this business sacrifices you've made time away from your two year old and and the white how much of that success. And what do you attribute to luck and timing? And how much would you attribute to pure grit? Tha and hard work really. Probably equal spread a both in somewhere so when it comes to these guard. Bt Slots What can time. You're always going to be a big portion of it and I will forever be grateful to the Montana or National Guard for giving me my slot. it was one of those units. I applied through had no connection to the State no connection to the water and didn't think I had a chance in hell of getting out there. I decided to throw my name in the hat anyway. And so two quick funny story the Astros Pitcher and because I didn't think I had a chance but I would just sort of simple offenses and so I sent in a college pitcher of many dresses Ron Burgundy on there just like their attention and the operation and I come to find out afterwards that it was like a huge issue in the squadron of if they want to hire a guy that was unprofessional or not. The application of the Squadron Commander Monochrome my application in the garbage and a couple of young guys thought it was as okay and convince them to let me leave come interview and and they gave me a chance and some are ubt in God. Chance apply play the Eagle and and unfortunately it's outlined. Eli Two years ago and then transferred unit but how will forever be grateful to those guys for the opportunity and I think a lot of that came down to being lucky that they have the right guy that vouch for me monitor but but this this process this application process both ubt and active duty it is a grind who's going through there And so I think it was a grind once. I got the bug. This is what he wants to do. And and transfers different state and and wanted to make all possible it's been a grind now balancing everything to keep it up running and there's several times for the Vogelsang where shirts and same for you guys. Tbn That didn't get busy enough sometimes. Question like is this worth the time and effort that goes into it and then your stories guys get picked up and you remember how excited I was. I remember how I was when I got picked up and how life changing. That's been for me. And and that sort of keeps you going. It's it's cheesy. But like legitimately bat is one of the coolest parts of having an alleged attack on someone's career and future and so I think that helps us grind through it when things got a little. You know busy out there. No doubt John. Thanks so much for taking the time to be on the show and I know you've got a busy world and and there's always a lot going on. I just got back from an airline trip this afternoon myself so we just really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me and share what you guys are doing over there with the teepee an audience and and hopefully anyone has any questions you get a hold of. Yeah thanks for having me. I'm excited work guys here and teacher absolutely so if someone does want to reach out. And what's the best way to contact you Emails the best so principle John DOE DOT com. You can also go to the website. You'll see some contact information on there as well. So W DOT COM state We're on social media as well so facebook and Instagram So there's also ways to get a hold me and let me know if you have any questions or anything we can do to help going forward or if you WANNA work with us. That's awesome so yeah. We'll make sure to put that in the show notes and and make sure it's really easy for for folks to find that so wherever one if you want to reach out to John Team by all means if you have any questions at all. These guys are great. They they have a lot of information they have the heart of a teacher And that's really what's important in the they want to help and ensure information and really pay it forward and we see that with down and they're they've been great partners so far John just a last. Thank you to you for joining tonight and it's just I learned a lot. You know stuff that I wish. I had not years ago and we truly your time and effort and for tbn as always. Thanks for listening. If you had me questions for either Adam or myself you can always reach out to us at. Hey guys at the pilot network dot org or you can Find one of the many other ways that we get the message out there Whether it's the website of the facebook group or the the premium community or even your coming to GPS Which we just finished up twenty nine hundred were already preparing for twenty twenty and so Hopefully we can all see you then for now shot up side down by faith can take care of Pittsburgh.

Garden Reserve National Guard Bogie Dope US John Florida Bodo founder Adam Garden Reserve Unit Navy Jason NBA University of North Dakota North Dakota facebook State University
New loan, who dis?

Marketplace Morning Report with David Brancaccio

07:03 min | 11 months ago

New loan, who dis?

"In the lowest unemployment rate in fifty years and yet wage growth is surprisingly low in New York. I'm Sabri Ben Ashore in for David Brancaccio the US economy gained one hundred forty five thousand jobs in December forty thousand of those were in retail many of those temporary jobs. Meanwhile manufacturing lost I twelve thousand jobs and wages grew but barely. Let's go through it all with Chris Lowe. He's chief economist at F. T. N. financial in your K.. Chris Good Morning Sugary wages. Were they grew by the slowest amount in about eighteen months. which is I don't know? It just seems really surprising. It's it just honestly you know going into this month. In December economists were predicting a rise of point. Three percent wages where point one percent in the month on a year on year basis wage growth ended the year at two point nine percents or just below three and and to put that into perspective. The peak wage growth. This year was in February at three point four percent. I think if you had told any economist. Five of years ago that we'd be looking at a three and a half percent unemployment rate remarkably tight job market and wage growth of less than three percent and That they would tell you that impossible but We we are actually seeing wages trend down over the entire course of last year. Yeah here we are Christopher Lowe chief economist at FDA financial in New York. Thanks as always thank you. Bree the Federal Aviation Administration's revealed excerpts of internal emails from Boeing the company employees describing the seven thirty seven Max as a plane designed signed by clowns other emails. Mock the FAA and joke about the safety of the some thirty seven. This is a moment of crisis for Boeing and a major challenge for incoming CEO. David Calhoun. He starts Monday. He's the current board chairman and he's worked at GE Nielsen and Caterpillar. And he's got a reputation as a turnaround artist. Helping corporations navigate. Navigate through a crisis and at Boeing. There's obviously a lot to turn round marketplace's Marielle Sagarra reports. Let's start with the logistical problems for ten months. Hundreds hundreds of Boeing seven thirty-seven Max. Eight planes have been grounded in warehouses around the world. John Australia who edits aviation newsletter. The air current says getting those planes leans back in the air. When the time comes won't be easy when you bring an airplane back into service after it's been in storage for one thing that can happen? Things begin to breakdown down. You know you just there's moisture and airplanes lake to be flown. Also start making this plane again. Boeing will have to coordinate with hundreds of suppliers after halting having production last month and the new CEO. David Calhoun is going to have to work on Boeing's reputation. Danielle Quincy Chico teaches. Aviation at the University of North Dakota Makota. The public has lost confidence in particular aircraft. So fast lane on duty is to rebuild that trust he says Calhoun can start rebuilding that trust by being transparent and contrite I'm Maryelle Sagarra for marketplace paying for college can be expensive if we know this the books the housing the food obviously the tuition. It is a lot for anyone to deal with. Let alone for young adults just getting started in life but how those costs are managed managed can determine the kinds of jobs we take even our ability to buy a home later in this installment of the marketplace series change makers we hear from Kelly peeler founder of money mentor accompany designed to help students take control of their finances. I'm someone who personally loves building. Products and services is to empower students or the next generation. I went to go work at J. P. Morgan and there I was asked to build large investment portfolios with the thesis of trying to short the student loan market. That's when I started digging around and really trying to understand. What is this one point five trillion dollars in outstanding debt? Mean and after kind of digging into that I was like wow as a student of financial crises this feels like the next financial. Oh crisis for this demographic of users the biggest thing holding them back is there on average. Thirty seven thousand dollars of student loan debt and that will prevent them from doing things like owning a house having a family picking a career that they want to pick and so if I was going to really kind of pursue this interest in empowering young people that seem like such an obvious problem to tackle and think about redesigning entrusted way. We don't provide financial literacy Chrissy. We provide financial convenience. That was something that a lot of people have tried and failed to do before is to just say Oh. We'll solve the problem just by teaching people about interest rates and that's just not being empathetic to the the broader scope of the problem to the user and how they actually operate we've helped over one hundred twenty thousand students Access a little over forty five million dollars in financial aid as opposed to taking out student loans. And we've done that all over tax ax message so we provide FANEUIL coaching and guidance. Twenty four seven over text message for free and we coach a student from senior of high school through senior of college and beyond on anything from filling out their FAFSA The main financial aid document to finding the best meal plan. Why Tax Message? It's because that's where attention is and not just like any old attention but trusted attention. I mean that is the prime channel to be able to have a trusted personal conversation. Such that you would be having having it with your friend and the reason why that's really important is because we're talking about some interest stressful and personal topic because we help students get an inordinate inordinate amount of extra money they then become sort of super advocates. And that's really what has fueled our growth. That was Kelly Peeler of of money mentor. You can listen to all the women featured in this series of change makers and read more of their stories at marketplace dot. Org Change makers was produced by Christabel in Seattle in New York. I'm Sabrina short with the marketplace morning. Report from a P._M.. American public media.

Boeing New York David Calhoun chief economist Federal Aviation Administratio Kelly Peeler Chris Lowe CEO Sabri Ben Ashore US David Brancaccio Marielle Sagarra University of North Dakota Mak F. T. N. Danielle Quincy Chico Christopher Lowe Bree chairman
12-19-19 Gaming standoff in Oklahoma

Native America Calling

59:00 min | 1 year ago

12-19-19 Gaming standoff in Oklahoma

"Welcome doc into native America. Calling from studio forty nine in Albuquerque. I'm Tara would. The governor of Oklahoma is in a power struggle with tribes over exclusive of Gaming compacts Kevin stood insists the fifteen year agreements expiring January. Although just this week he offered to extend them the tribes contend. The governor is wrong in aren't planning on doing anything different. The stakes are high for both sides with nearly one hundred. Forty million dollars in annual game. invis- currently going to the state. We'll find out more and what the possible scenarios are right after national native news in this is National Native News Antonio Gonzalez nearly eighty years after the completion of ground. Cooley damn the spokane tribal receive seve. Compensation for losses suffered from the project. Steve Jackson reports Spokane tribe lost lands became submerged under the waters of the Columbia River. River also lost much more like the salmon runs that had fed their people for centuries so at basically was devastating to our tribal people. It affected our life. Our culture economy spiritual practices because this all centered around the rivers however the families impacted acted by the loss of land was devastating. Also because they lost their homes their gardens they had to move up to land. That was less Berdahl. Tribal Business Council chair. Carol Evans says promises were made for years by government officials at the tribe would receive some form of compensation Monday the US House of Representatives passed a compensation bill that had passed. The Senate last Summer Evans says that shows the bipartisan support. For the measure she says tribal officials will make a future determination as to how the money will be spent what we look forward forward to in the future with not only this but all of lar- economic activities to be able to really focus on the needs of of the tribal people. You know the Health Education Welfare Welfare that children the elders our language. Those are all important things. And each one of those. There's needs of and says the tribal receive annual compensation nation of approximately six million dollars per year for National Native News. I'm Steve Jackson reporting from Spokane opponents to the keystone. Xl pipeline tried to get it climate change reports into the record out of South Dakota water-management board hearing this week in peer TC energies attorney objected to repeated efforts to to include the fourth national climate assessment and other information on climate change for the boards consideration. Although the data was not allowed one witness testified taking climate reports into consideration when making plans for tribal water. Use Victoria wicks has more the second day of testimony started with a fight carried over from the first day when the Water Management Board held the fourth national climate report is hearsay and not admissible attorney. Peter Cap Acela represents the Rosebud suit tribe and Great Plains Tribal Water Alliance. The national climate assessment was declared to be here. Say if that's the case in the US gs data exclusively regard upon by the state engineer and the applicant is also hearsay. CAPELA moves to strike the testimony and exhibits. DNR and energy that that rely on the US Geological Survey also government data board chairman Jim. Hutton Marker denies the motion and testimony continues from the Water Resource Manager for the Rosebud. Suit Tribe Siad huck says he considers climate change data from several sources when he draws up policy for use of the tribes water but he says adaptation and mitigation of climate change is going to be expensive and impoverished tribes can't afford to adequately respond refiled production go drive the result of drought and climate change. Dange Oh we don't know what alternatives you know if we have to put a treatment plant on the little white river is going to be cost prohibitive for Hawk says Rosebud gets much of its water from aquifers. He says pipeline. Construction draws downstream flows when they're already low the aquifer fed by the rivers could suffer. The board will continue taking testimony through Friday for National Native News. I'm Victoria wicks in rapid city. South Dakota and demand Tony Gonzalez. The National Native News is produced by Broadcast Corporation for funding by the corporation for a public broadcasting support by Ramona farms offering wholesome and delicious foods from our Aaron crops as our contribution to a better diet for the benefit of all people we are honored to share our centuries old farming and culinary traditions online at Ramona farms dot com support by prairie edge dot com our special selection of dried herbs Cozinne for superior quality and many sage sweetgrass braids red willow bark. Cedar are wild crafted in rapid city or online at prairie edge DOT COM com. Won't below native voice one the native American radio network. This is native America calling. I'm Taraji would on January anyway. First Gaming tribes in Oklahoma say they will be open and operating as usual but the governor of Oklahoma. Kevin said certain gaming activity will become come a legal on this day for months. The governor has called on the tribes to come to the table and renegotiate the fifteen year old exclusive gaming compacts tribe. Say they're open to renew renegotiations but only if the governor drops his expiration date premise. That's what the reports are saying. Here are some numbers for context. One thirty one thirty one tribes signed contracts with the State tribes pay as much as ten percent into their gaming prophets last year that added up to one hundred and thirty nine million dollars going to the state. The governor wants tribes to add more. He he points to some tribes and other states and say that they pay as much as twenty five percent today. We'll talk with tribal leader here from legal experts about the dispute acute and what it means and phone lines are open for you. If you'd like to join us we'd like to hear from you. One eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight is the number to dial in again. One eight hundred nine nine native is also where you'll find us on twitter and right now we're GONNA turn to Tulsa Oklahoma to say hello to principal chief of the Cherokee nation. Chuck Hoskin Junior and my pleasure to have him here. Principal Chief Hoskin. Thank you for joining us. Know so very good to be with you. And so principal chief Where does the Cherokee nation stand on What is going on in Oklahoma in terms of the possibility of certain gaming aiming expiring as of January first with Governor stands what is the position of the Cherokee nation will first of all and this is significant? We stand stand with every tribe in this state on the subject of compact renewal and that's significant of course because there are strengthened numbers and the Indian nations that are within the state of Oklahoma. Contribute mightily to the The wellbeing of state and On the subject of Renewal We are consistent in solidarity that Compaq Renews It renews and continues on past January. First doesn't mean we aren't willing to sit down with the governor and listened to an actual proposal which by the way the next time he proposes one. It'll be the first time you proposes one The we're in unity on that as well that we're willing to negotiate gate But this idea is January first deadline is simply Simply founding in what are your thoughts would feel some of this because says as reports say tribes in Oklahoma right now are contributing anywhere from four to ten percent of revenue. Going straight to the state where we're other states it's higher. What are your thoughts on this will if you look at the state if you look at a breakdown and look at actual numbers Not the charge. That the governor has trotted out during press conferences. You see that Are Exclusivity great tribes pay which is which is really between six and ten percent? is actually about in the middle of the country in terms of Being average Now there are some states where you see a high number. The Governor Likes to point to twenty five percent. You can go to the state of Florida. Where the seminal seminole tribe there has the exclusive right to engage in in in class three gaming and there are no other tribes engaging in that state and the twenty five percent Is just say that is a bit. Misleading misleading. Because it's really twenty five percent when you get On the order of billions of dollars in revenue so in other words progressive the fee structure. Twenty five five percent applies to the very very high revenue. Billions torpey But if you look at actual numbers if we care about actual we'll facts and I can tell you every tribe in Oklahoma cares about the facts were right about average in terms of the exclusivity rate and look over the past fifteen years. We've sent over one point. Five billion dollars straight to stay tougher For the state to do what was at the end of the bargain which is to use those dollars to provide for the The health and Welfare In the betterment of the entire State I can certainly tell you that the Cherokee nation this is true of the rest of the tribes. We all of our gaming dollars right back into our Our respective Areas are communities into into investing in our people in the communities where they it lifts and we really spend every single penny in the state But to get back to your question We're we're paying about average Oklahoma. It's been a win win in terms of the compact. It's it's GonNa keep on going after January first in so when we take a look at the numbers for the Cherokee nation. I know that there may be several numbers because it depends on which classic gaming you're talking about what percent is a Turkey nation pain. We well we. We're we're all in the same rate structure structure so when you're talking about Certain Games where where in the six percent range But it's tiered structure based on The the The revenue that comes in certain games were were a ten percent Bhawan is for example in percents but but the tribes are essentially fleet signed onto the same compact and where your revenue hits is where your percentages and and also certain games are tagged at a certain percent in in some of the things that the governor has shared leading up to this point in this week has been Explaining why the number in his terms is low. Oh because there was no gaming industry when things went into play. That's why these numbers were low. But now that there's a thriving one Things are different sprint in principle chief. What are your thoughts? Do you feel that. Tribes are being penalized because they're bringing in more revenue than ever expected well L. High. Clearly we are bringing in more revenue than was expected. But that means the state is realizing more exclusivity than ever imagined in fact the state has received cheap three times. What it project three? Times what. It projected That's significant what that reflects is is is an industry that has grown reached maturity And it's Paying the stay more than ever imagined you know we talk a lot about exclusivity fees and that's important. We also need to talk about the other way. The the nation's impact the state and so in our part of Oklahoma which is North East we're the largest employer in the state around eleven thousand boys our industry which is more than gaming but primarily gaining Supports another twenty thousand jobs And we have about two point. One six billion dollar economic impact on the region. So it's fine to look at exclusivity fees that's only part of the picture But again if you looking exclusivity fees yes. They have increased over time. The the percentage seems about average for the nation and effect. It is averaging. I think we'd love to get into talking about rates with the governor but we can't get there as long as they host this phony deadline over. So what does it mean when you hear the governor seeing. He's willing to offer an extension to the gaming compact. What what does that mean to you? What it means is that he wants to try to Essentially acknowledged that there is a deadline and that we need to take some affirmative step step to extend it and that's just not true. I mean he reads a very simple provisioned of the compact and stops at a comma and treats it like a period insisted that expires at the end of this year. But a A period is not a comma in after the comma. There's certain Certain certain conditions that would trigger renewal all of the tribes agree that those conditions have been met. And it's not just our opinion. I mean look governor. State doesn't have to listen into the chief of the Cherokee nation on this subject. He could listen to one of his predecessors particularly the one that negotiated the combat in the first place governor. Brad Henry who has gone on record saying I think this compact renews He could listen to Scott Meacham the former treasure. The state of Oklahoma was their negotiations. He says this compact he could listen to a very respected Attorney Seth Waxman the former US solicitor. Who has told the Tribes and made it public that the Compact for news. It seems to me that just about everybody who's looked at this compact with the exception of governor stood understands compact renews understands that they they common is not a period and and so He needs to understand that it renews when he says he offers us an extension. He's offering something that we don't need what we need. It is for him to acknowledge what the Plain language of the Compact is. If he does it if he takes that simple stamp we can get down to the business that I think the people of the state of Oklahoma and in our our tribal citizens by the way are Oklahoma to want us to do which is to reach a resolution of this matter in something can clear this up for me. the governor talking about reaching out to tribes have the tribes ever got an official invitation to talk about negotiations or. Is this papers floating around. Can you clear up exactly what has happened. Interaction between tribes and the governor and wanting to renew or even negotiate. What he's what is the truth? The first the first thing of substance the tribes got was reading a an editorial from the governor and the Tulsa world she suggested the tribes weren't paying enough and they we ought to pay more. Look that's not how A leaders of government should treat each other at certainly not the way leaders leaders of Indian nations ought to be treated and it certainly not the way previous governors have treated so the first thing of substance we learned about. It was the newspaper after that. Dan he Asserted that the compact renewed and he doubled down on it and tripled down on it We did invite The state eight to explain why they believe that It did not renew And we had a meeting good meeting with the Attorney General To talk about that subject but frankly we were UNIMPRESSED UNMOVED by the states analysis. which really wasn't analysis as to why the Compact for According to Governor State expired at the end of the year so there there really has been no invitation to bargain except for us to do so under a phony deadline. Now Look I. I'm not going to go to the bargaining table with the clock. Ticking on me to talk about a compact impact And I'm under the gun T to sign an extension or get it done by the end of the year. I'm not going to do. I made that very clear together. And the entire Every tribe and the state has made it clear to the governor so so far there's been no substantive negotiations because the governor won't allow that because he keeps It keeps hanging onto this boss notion that the compact expires and he's also assistant of the Cherokee Nation We go to break here but folks if you want to join us is calling right now. One eight hundred nine six two eight four eight is the number we do look forward to your call. Also WanNa let you know that we did reach out to Governor Governor Stitz office office to invite him to be a guest on a program today but we did not hear back from them. We'll continue hang tight On the next native America calling. We'll hear from giant Kevin Burger she is the reigning Miss Indian world. And the first seminal to hold. Oh the title won't talk with her about promoting important issues like raising awareness of mental health. We hope you'll join us. Support support by AARP WHAT AARP does may surprise you like supporting the US census to share information on job opportunities. That help your community. The US census determines your state's representation in Congress how funds are spent for schools hospitals roads and provides information to guide many decisions made by I federal and tribal governments businesses and institutions more about becoming a census worker at twenty twenty census dot Gov slash jobs. They uh aw aw. Aw thanks for tuning in today about our conversation about gaming in Oklahoma if you'd like to join us dial in one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight. Is the number number with us today on the line is principal chief of the Cherokee nation. Chuck Hoskin Junior our pleasure to have him here and principal chief. I know you got to get going here In I just want to give you a moment for any final comments but also wondering to the governor being a citizen of the Cherokee nation. Does that hold any weight on this issue. I'd like like to think that his citizen citizenship withhold wait with him in terms of Come understanding what. His nation does For the people of the State of Oklahoma I hope actually and remain optimistic that because he's a Cherokee citizen that He will he will find it himself to come to the table without these phony deadline so and you know I'm the chief of the Cherokee nation and and If he listens to US chief he'll he'll understand that We are a nation that wants to be reasonable with the state we want to reach an agreement and that certainly The consensus of all the tribes. Okay in anything else. You WanNa Leave Smith. Well I I appreciate never won you covering the issue. It's critically important. Uh Not only to the Indian nations in Oklahoma but all four million ago. There is a great deal at stake in terms of the economy in terms of jobs in terms of the impact. On families. do you WanNa make one thing clear that I made before. Which is the Compact continues after January? First we will continue operations as usual. which is a good thing for this forming and Oklahoma because that means we continue to contribute mightily mightily to the state's economy? I also always make sure people understand this In my view the Cherokee nation really all the nations within the state are are the best friends that the state of Oklahoma has ever had you have sent millions upon millions of dollars every year millions of dollars to the state of Oklahoma homeless coffers. So that they can do more We contribute immeasurably to the cultural fabric of the state We support the economy in so many ways voice from healthcare housing education jobs. We're they're building roads. In communities big and small were there for economic development projects were there for a charitable and philanthropic causes We are the best friends state of Oklahoma ever had but friends need to treat each other with respect and the state of Oklahoma by the governor is is not trading Cherokee nation respect But above all we wanted agreement if we can just get past this phony January first deadline and get down to business. I'm confident will reach one and when you come to an agreement are you talking about anything that really points out auto renewal well L. Auto Renewal. He needs to get off that issue. I'm talking about an agreement on any adjustments to the Compact that can be made certainly the exclusivity rates or something. We've been willing to talk about but again we're not going to talk about Under some phony deadline so if we can get past that Deadline of the end of this year If you will get off that issue then we'll get right to the table to talk about substance and to listen to his proposal again. The next time he makes a proposal will be the first first time makes proposal So we need to get there but we have to get past this This phony deadline principal chief of the Cherokee Nation Chuck Hoskins Junior. Thank you for joining us today. And I do want to let folks know we did reach out to the governor To invite him to be a guest on our program. Today we did not hear back but there's still time left in the hour or a representative listening and there's anything you'd like to share about the governor governor stance. You can give us a call. Two one eight hundred nine nine six. Two Eight for eight is the number and you know what let's hear. Some words from the Governor Governor Kevin Stint held a press conference on Tuesday reiterating certain and things will expire on January first but offered tribes the opportunity as he says to extend compacts until tribes and the state Were able able to come to an agreement but as you just heard from the principal chief. He disagrees with that. Let's hear what the governor had to say. The language of this extension will allow cy by signs onto the extension to retain their legal positions. I want business to continue as usual while we resolve. All this dispute you know. We approached the holidays and enter into twenty twenty I want the banks. The alcohol vendors the food food vendors the entertainers and the workers to have certainty and assurance that they can continue the gauge. His business while the state worse to negotiate in good faith with our tribal partners about what gamy los like for the next fifteen years also matthew. Morgan Oregon is the chairman of the Oklahoma Indian Gaming Association and a citizen of the chickasaw nation. We had a chance to ask him. What the OH I? G as position is on the conflict between the tribes in the governor. What we hear from tribal leadership is that by the plane? Terms of our compact. The the agreement has already been triggered to auto renew that He should acknowledge that that auto renewal and if he does then You know tribes are willing to sit down with him and talk about our proposal under the framework of our current compact compact was written fifteen years ago. It gives it provides space for for a tribe in the state to sit down and negotiate rates or exclusivity and that requires ars. You know a proposal from one side of the other that wishes to negotiate. He started this conversation about renegotiating. And we've been waiting on our proposal since he started this conversation and the second week in July and kind of leadership is never received anything from and so there you go more words and all this maybe this is something you are watching very very closely because it's important to your own tribal nation and folks who are listening outside of Oklahoma. Does any of this sound familiar. Something that may be your tribe has had to go through who when it comes to negotiating with the state and what do you think about these numbers challenges to the numbers any thoughts one eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight is is the number and if you have any questions about how some of this works I'm going to introduce you to two people Who Knew it very well so you can ask your questions to join us? I you gotTa do is dial in one. Eight hundred nine six two eight four eight is the number right now. We're going to say hello to a guest joining us out of grand forks. North Dakota we have Catherine Ran. She is a professor at the school law at the University of North Dakota and is the CO director of the Institute for the Study of Tribal Gaming Law and in policy also at the University of North Dakota our pleasure to have here Catherine Welcome. Thank you glad to be here and also out of grand enforce is Steve Light. He's a professor of political science in the College of Business and public administration at the University of North Dakota and he is also another of your code director of the Institute for the study of Tribal Gaming Walk in policy our pleasure to have him here as well. Steve Welcome thanks to our great to be here and so we heard from principal chief. I'm sure there were things that really stuck out for you there and want to get your thoughts on it We also heard audio from the governor in so Catherine wanted to turn to you About what ever you heard in that clip or if you were able to hear the full press press conference That stood out to you so we can start picking away when we take a look at your background in law and in what is he's going on here what is a law see How is this? Lobbying interpreted anything you want to share on that Catherine sure and and so the interesting aspect from a legal point of view Over the dispute on whether the Compact terminate says the governor thinks it does or whether it's automatically renewed Which is the tribes position? Is that. I'm not sure that that actually has much bearing bearing on the negotiation factors for possible increase in the exclusivity payments. So I think think that getting past that issue to negotiating The terms and whether there ought to be any changes to the exclusivity payments. That's the more important issue and I'm not sure that that legally whether the contacts terminate have any has has any real burying on those factors into the governor appears In his press conference with a big blow up and it says a section or part fifteen b where he shows January first twenty twenty. What is that in in? How is that being interpreted or is it being? He misinterpreted sure that comes from the model compact There's a provision in the compact full paragraph that starts with that sentence offend As cheap hoskin points out is followed by an additional clause that indicates the possibility of automatic renewal The loveridge that the governor might gain in saying that the Compaq's tax actually expire comes at a an expense and that is of course the possibility that if tribal gaming were to stop on January first that impacts a whole lot of people in a whole lot of jobs throughout the entire state of Oklahoma it doesn't just impact the tribes and at the same time Of course the Compaq's are complex rather than contracts and they're subject to federal approval until the difference between compact in contract. Sure so a contract act would be between two parties and whatever they agree they agree but a compact a tribal state gaming compact is subject Victor Federal Approval in accordance with federal law and there is federal law on the terms of revenue sharing payments or exclusively payments that the state can demand from the tribe. So whatever ends up being agreed to not only will have to be approved approved by the Interior Secretary but also needs to conform to the federal law which requires is that the state give something to the tribes in exchange for asking for any increase in those exclusivity payments into to your knowledge? Are there any tribes. Who are on board with that or asking any of that? My understanding is that the tribes arrives in Oklahoma are willing to negotiate the possibility of changes to the exclusivity payments But of course they they would want those payments to conform with federal law because they want their compacts to be approved at the federal level and so the state will need to come to the table with something in exchange for any requests to increase those payments and talking about the compacts. Terminating is not something that is necessarily relevant to asking for an increased exclusively peanuts. Thank you very much Steve. Anything to add in and of course anything to explain because we know this can get complicated really quick anything to end Steve. Sure well I think Katherine has provided a a really nice starting point for us Following principal chief Hoskins comments and we are privileged to be on the show and also with With the principal apple chief. So thank you for that In terms of additional context. One of the reasons that I'm on the phone along with Catherine is that All gaming related issues news in particular tribal gaming have both legal dimensions and political and policy dimensions and so in in terms of Expanding on what Katherine Nsaid from just looking at the Compact And Compact language. That's sort of you know looking at the black letter of the law I as Catherine suggests asks and as as principal chief suggested as well there are many political and policy considerations and what stands out for me from you know to your question about. The governor's Governor's press conference and also additional comments. We heard today. Is that at some level both the governor and at least principal chief Hoskin or coming from a similar perspective in that governor acknowledged in the press conference that he wants business to continue as usual as he said That also is the position Russian of of the Cherokee nation and and the tribes writ large in Oklahoma and from there the differences really About when weather and and when and where to talk about issues like exclusivity rates. So I would suggest actually the positions while they seem like polar opposites. Because it's at the start are actually closer together than one. Might think in. So Steve when we say politics that also means You know taking a look at what motivates a politician to do certain things. Are there certain things if this with the governor bringing this Ford does it put him in a position to have other things going on in the state or who benefits from this if the governor continues to push for this that's a great. It questioned Tara and in terms of the politics within the state I I want to acknowledge. Of course I'm not embedded directly in the state of Oklahoma so but from an outsider's outsider's perspective At the outset you know a couple of things to note number one Gaming and specifically tribal gaming is an enormous a second engine for the state of Oklahoma. Everyone knows that in the state From tribal members to non native oklahomans to Republicans wiccans and Democrats alike. So that's the first consideration secondly politically speaking The governor with with a recent send election And being Republican outside. You know I don't WanNA talk a lot about partisan issues but being Republican And looking at the state legislature or as well in Oklahoma the governor has a four to one margin in terms of Republicans to Democrats in the Oklahoma Senate and I believe a three to one margin in the house. Republicans to Democrats and so he's potentially Using both the leverage of how he sees the language in the Compact and the the fact that he's negotiating from were seeking to negotiate from a position of strength in terms of Partisanship within state as well. But really when it comes down to the dollars and economic development opportunities that are afforded to the state. That's a nonpartisan issue. I mean not crosses party lines in with him being assist listen in Cherokee nation any thoughts there on unhealthy that plays into the politics. Any thought Steve another great question and I and I think doc You know at some level I deferred to principal chief Hoskin on that. I'm speaking as the chief of the Cherokee nation and talking about the relationship To the governor there but What what one would expect to see is government government government negotiatied on issues like this? That's the essence of a compact as Catherine noted as well. It's it's distinct from a contract and so the issue is less About which affiliations and more about the government to government relationship at stake here in. We've seen more tribal governments coming together on. This is pushing back Catherine listened minute before the break. Anything ed so I think that it. It also also important to recognize that in order for any changes to the exclusivity payments to be approved. There are two factors. Here's the federal government is going to look for in approving that I is that the state has authored a meaningful confession and second that the payment is proportional proportional to the economic benefit that the tribes will realize from the states concession. All right we'll get more details on this coming up after the break. I'm also wondering to what casino workers are thinking about all this. Maybe don't live in Oklahoma but in your state you depend on That job What do you think about all of a sudden things like this can get Debate it might even affect your future. You can share your thoughts to were curious. Yes you can give us a call at one eight hundred nine six two eight. Four eight is a number and if you're tuned in in Oklahoma and you come from one of these gaming tribes what are your thoughts. It's an all this. What do you hope your tribal leaders are saying what he hopes they'll do? What are they doing join us? Phone lines are open support by freedom lodge providing healing for seven generations offering a one of a kind two hundred our historical trauma masterclass beginning in May twenty twenty on the Oneida nation in Wisconsin for professional counselors therapists social workers and educators. There's no charge for tribal members. Now you can imagine an end to generations nations of suffering and the future of native wellness registration deadline is March. Second Information and registration at Freedom Lodge Dot Org hi Uh Yeah You're tuned into native America Calling Tara Gate with from sled a Pueblo. Thank you for joining us today. And we're talking about a dispute in Oklahoma over gaming. The Governor says certain gaming activity will become legal on January. First drive. Say the governor is mistaken. What do you think the number is one eight hundred nine? Six two eight for eight with us. Today is Katharine Ran. A professor at the School of law at the University of North Dakota also Steve Light a professor of Political Michael Science and in the College of business and Public Administration also at the University of North Dakota they are both co directors of the Institute for the Study of Tribal Gaming Law in policy my pleasure to have them there have him both of them here with us. Catherine speaking of illegal The government in his statement also shared that Vendors who do business with casinos may also be held liable for doing business with a illegal operation Russian. Is that true or can you explain a little bit if you understand why he said this. So the governor's position is that the compacts expire on January first Twenty twenty and if that's the case if the governor is this correct than the conduct of class three gaming would not be legal under federal law. But that's a big if and would require the federal government to agree with the governor. The governor doesn't get to make the call on whether or not The class regaining is legal on tribal lance or not But it's also important to note that that's only with regard to class three gaming The tribes class last few operations which are still fairly extensive in Oklahoma would continue to be legal And it would not be terribly difficult for the tribes to expand those classrooms Plus two operations if the governors Approaches correct so in that way I think that the tribes could act In a way that would be protective of the casino employees of all of the vendors and all of the other folks that have direct business ties to the casinos or indirectly benefit from the operation of the casinos. And that's why I'm being really adamant and seeing certain gaming and not just saying gaming because it ain't all of it that's being disputed right now but with Vats said Catherine what is the reality of all this okay so from what. I'm understanding what you're telling me that it is continues to push forward. This is going to be tossed into The federal arena. And you know. And then I'll ask. Steve Steve's will get ready Does the governor have the backing checking or are there any indications that the federal government is going to agree with the governor But but first Catherine tell us about What happens is is this going to be kicked into a federal arena? Are we seeing court in the future. What what do you see? It's possible That if the governor continues to take the stance that the contracts expire on January first and the tribes disagree that that dispute will need to be resolved through litigation but the continued operation of tribal gaming in the state is in the interests of both the tribes and the state so. I'm not sure that anyone actually wants tribal casinos to close their class. Three operations As Steve Said Everyone wants business to continue as usual. That's what's best for not just the tribes but for the state of Oklahoma The principal chief was definitely correct that the current exclusivity payments are are pretty much right in the middle of what we see nationally In terms of class three operations the twenty any four states that have class three tribal gaming. Do have some amount of direct payments to the state from the tribes but the vast majority of those are very modest payments Some fifteen out of those twenty four states collect less than two million dollars dollars in direct payments to the states and only a handful of states Oklahoma among them are the payments to the state in excess of one hundred million dollars annually and even among that small handful of states only a very few reach the level of The twenty five percent. The governor has thrown out And most of those are only only at point as chief Hoskin pointed out that a an individual tribes gaming revenue reaches a point of In the case of Florida four point five billion dollars annually would that highest rate kick in so the current exclusivity rates especially given the size of the Oklahoma the market the number of tribes in the state and The relative limited class three gains that the state has authorized. They're certainly not only average but maybe even on the high end average. If you look at the national picture in real quick class three gaming what exactly is it so classroom gaming gaming is everything that isn't class to but typically class three gaining Is Banked Card Games Like blackjack that you would play at a casino now Slot machines or other electronic gaming devices like you have in Oklahoma and Baldwin dice game craps and Roulette. so He's thinking of a casino on the Las Vegas Strip. That's the kind of gaming that's normally associated with class three another kind of class. Three three gaming Is Of course sports betting which is getting a lot of the national Attention these days to all right. So the one armed bandits Okay and so Steve Turn to you. you know if this gets kicked into a federal arena What do you see there or does this indicate that the governor has backing there any thoughts? Well I do think that the the first arena. That isn't a tribe live in state negotiation might indeed be Data the court says Catherine mentioned it. You know if this were heading anywhere it might head to litigation I I From there the question of of how the federal government in the in the body of the National Indian Gaming Commission in particular killer which is the Federal Agency that under federal law has some Oversight Regulatory Oversight Jurisdiction over tribal gaming. One one really wouldn't be able to predict What the National Indian Gaming Commission would do in this situation per se except that we have some ah important? Context and the context primarily comes in terms of The factors that Catherine mentioned before the prior break in in looking at a If the tribe and the state or coming together to renegotiate compact terms is there meaningful concession to the tribe from from the state and are there economic benefits to the tribe That the state is providing in return for the negotiation of renegotiation of Compact provisions. And and so so that's something that the NFC would look at it and the other piece of context is a the question of what is a fair rate for direct revenue sharing during As both principal chief hoskin mentioned and Catherine is well the rates that are on the books right now are In the in the average rain across the spectrum and that is something If not looking at you know the spectrum itself that is something that the national Indian Gaming Commission would be aware of. It looks at The extent to which state is providing meaningful concessions and and substantial benefits to the tribe. That are you know in a relative sense proportionate to the revenue sharing rate. That's on the table for class. Three Games so You know with all due respect to governor state I can understand from a negotiating perspective. Why he would bring or could bring twenty to twenty five percent to the table? The full picture is that there is a much much much broader range of revenue sharing that has been deemed. I'm to approved by the federal government and right now under the existing compact four class three Games Oklahoma sits squarely in in the middle of that range. No one used that word fair It seems like it can mean a lot of things. But what are general parameters that are used to equate the the word fair when we're talking about this Fairness in terms of of the calm of how compacts are looked at. Yes with a number a fair number. Yeah so Fair has a lot the different meanings I mean looking back. Historically for example. The State of California when Arnold Schwarzenegger was governor of the State of California and about fifteen fifteen years ago The governor at that time equated a fair share as he put it of revenue payments to the state as substantially stanchly higher than what was on the books at the time and and probably higher than than the existing rate and Oklahoma. Now but fair is really A term that needs to be judged within a specific state and and arguably against individual tribes as well in Oklahoma as as listeners listeners may know with thirty one or so tribes that are covered by class three compacts and thirty thirty eight total tribes in the state that are offering gaming in some Form there's a substantial range of Of of the economic benefits that are crude from the casinos Range in the size of at the casinos the type number of machines or games that are played the economic development opportunities from job creation And the locations agents themselves you know from say the Windstar casino that the chickasaw have which has upwards of eight thousand machines one hundred table games to the kinds kinds of casinos that you or gaming operations you might see operate it in a place like Ada where it's more of a travel centre or a gas station and there are fewer than one hundred hundred mish machines. So Fair is a relative term into Steve when we take a look at the state of Oklahoma in where some of these tribes that have gaming. Are there any tribes. That are close to borders with other states. Leading to any contention that may be playing into this. That's an excellent question and When we look at the the status of a tribal gaming nationwide It goes to the heart of thinking about out the maturity of the industry so that's a term that principal chief mentioned as well the the maturation. The industry means the extent to which the gaming gaming industry in Oklahoma has reached its peak in terms of some factors like The customer base the A The potential for revenue. The number of games Intertribal you know the locations of other tribes and tribal casinos and the potential for intertribal competition over revenue and then crossing state borders as you mentioned as well so Oklahoma's position Relative two other states it has captured a pretty a large share of the potential gaming market in the area. But that doesn't mean that That there isn't the potential for leakage to other states. If other states are able to offer a on the border in particular Things like sports betting that Oklahoma Homa doesn't have I think you for that and so so much of this one I was looking into it in in reading and kind of getting my head around it reminded to me of disputes. That went on in Mexico some years ago and it got pretty contentious Catherine does this reflect anything that you remember happening with with other states when it comes to gaming in conflicts with the state anything there so unfortunately we do see conflicts arising around revenue sharing and in particular we see those conflicts arise when the state Wants wants to get a larger share of a successful tribal gaming industry within its borders. So in places like like North Dakota where we're from We don't see these kinds of disputes There is not any direct revenue sharing a From tribal gaming to the state in North Dakota and that's simply because the market is modest enough that the focus is on job the creation rather than profits but in states like Florida and New York and California and now Oklahoma We do see these. Disputes Arise and the ideal situation would be a government to government negotiation Where both parties understand that? What's good for the tribes can be good for the state and they reach an agreement? That is is Both Fair in the political sense that Steve was talking about but also in the legal sense in that it satisfies the federal standards word for what is appropriate State Revenue Sharing From tribal gaming. So I think as long as we see successful tribal gaming gene and as long as we have states that have their own economic issues. We're going to see these disputes. Arise How they're handled handled? I think we'll tell us a lot about The values of the state and the value that The people of the state put on that industry and there should be no question that in Oklahoma the tribal gaming industry is important to everyone in any context for the institute sued the city of Tribal Gaming Law in policy. So Stephen I are thrilled to be the CO directors of the Institute. I tribal For the study of Tribal Gaming Law and policy At the University of North Dakota and We're glad to help Anyone who's interested in Indian gaming and try to provide unbiased information as much as possible and We're easy to find a through the University of North Dakota all right. Thank you for that. And that's GonNa wrap our discussion today. Whatever you're thinking right now go ahead and share it with us? Denison email comments and native America calling DOT com. You can also post your thoughts on our social media. Our twitter handle is at one eight hundred nine nine native and thank you to everybody. We heard from in the our principal. Chief Chuck Hoskins Junior. Also Catherine Rand and Steve Light We do appreciate you tuning in today tomorrow or inviting you back for a conversation that we had with Miss Indian world from the gathering of nations and we're also looking forward to the rest of the week and what's coming up the next if you WANNA get the highlights sign up for our newsletter. If you haven't already it'll get sent to you on Friday us. Uh so that you can see the details and maybe even plan your week around what native America calling is doing. Hey went all right thanks so much. I'm Tara Gatewood we will meet you here tomorrow as we open the discussion again. Two more things going on in our nation's ooh support by MATHEMATICA GEICO currently hiring classroom observers to work on the American Indian Alaska Native headstart family and child experiences survey which gathers information about the characteristics and experiences of children and families served by head start programs in tribal communities there are limited positions available. Application deadline is January tenth with twenty twenty information about benefits and application available at careers dot Mathematica Dot. Org Tau they dial two dinnie He Daniele Youth Anneli Dusty all-star eats at the attendees Toheah. Laney toss tickets Ditto. He today thirty ish out to USCA. Attendees all Nico where I get done to healthcare. Dot Gov No one eight hundred three one eight two five nine six. He argued to Nossa Medicare Medicaid Dune Adult Sunny Native America calling produced in the Annenberg national native boy studios in Albuquerque New Mexico by Twenty Broadcast Corporation Native Nonprofit Media Organization funding is provided by the corporation for public broadcasting. Oh casting with support from the Public Radio Satellite Service Music is by Brent Michael Davids native voice. One the native American radio network.

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How Smart Cities Could Get Hacked

WSJ Tech News Briefing

07:48 min | 1 year ago

How Smart Cities Could Get Hacked

"Today the phenomenon of remote work is increasingly accepted reality as more businesses pave the way for mobile teams. How can you ensure sensitive data remain secure find out when we return to the transformation minute from comcast business. This is tech news briefing. I'm Tanya Bustos reporting from the newsroom in New York so the good news is that smart cities are coming. The BAD news hackers won't be very far behind behind. That's according to the journals James Rundle. He joins us with a glimpse into the future as cities across the globe continued to use technology. That's after these headlines in Google and facebook say they are changing the way they rank news stories in confession to bigger news publishers. Google said the changes will better promote original content. The move addresses publishers complaints that they're scoops were often overshadowed by quick rights by other outlets facebook for its part is negotiating with media outlets to pay them for the rights to publish their stories and a special news feed. They say they will use real people not Algorithm to determine which stories to feature as the Wall Wall Street Journal previously reported in other facebook news. The company is jumping on these streaming bandwagon like everyone else's one of their three new portal devices Portal quarterback. TV has television chat and allows users to stream content from facebook Amazon prime spotify and a few other services but not net flicks and Disney plus just yet in addition to facebook messenger the second generation devices can make video calls using what's APP the original portal devices released last October faced intense scrutiny because facebook's privacy misteps however during demos of the new devices facebook emphasize that users could opt out of sending data into the company activision blizzard says a free mobile call of duty game thought it made with China's tencent is launching in October. You can expect the kind of battle Royale style of play made popular last year by the blockbuster hit fortnight Stevens Analysts Jeff Cohen tells the journal that Gamers should use caution when comparing the two however noting a big draw for fortnight has been the ability for people using different devices to play together activision blizzard did not mention anything about such an option for call call of duty mobile. If you recall this won't be the company's first mobile call of duty game and while prior ones weren't big hits Mr Co in his forecast at a revenue of around one hundred million in dollars for next year coming up what new smart cities mean for old concerns about cyber attacks welcome back to the transformation minute from comcast business how can businesses ensure sensitive data stays secure when it's accessed by remote team members we asked denise hasty as VP of comcast business we've seen companies unease now adopting things like VPN to really help insulate and protect that data from vulnerability ideally accompany can offer various levels of security purity. The security level can be different. If you're a remote worker accessing company data from home or say on an airplane the attacks on Saudi Arabia's oil infrastructure over the weekend using drones has gotten cybersecurity experts worried about the potential for similar attacks on critical infrastructure right here in the US US researchers at the University of North Dakota are currently researching something called drone swarm technology that allows packs of drones to make decisions on their own the it could be able to detect rogue planes or drones heading for power grids or oil facilities and then had them off but attacks from drones aren't the biggest thing researchers are concerned third about when it comes to protecting infrastructure smart technology is being implemented more and more across the US and while it's helping them grow and thrive it could also put them at risk disc- here talk more about them as the Wall Street Journal's James Rundle joining us in the podcast studio. Welcome thank you so. This all feels pretty futuristic to a certain extent eh but that's actually not the case smart. Cities are very much here already. There's a lot going on so if you wouldn't mind talking first about the existing tag already fully at play in the smart cities you write about sure so most major cities easing some four census to collect data and amendments there are various projects that are in China. Maybe a bit more futuristic so in Las Vegas for instance that piloting Thomas Vehicles of the cities are looking at how five G. is going to influence that say they don't have a lot more devices elements at -nology and and as my article says Elommal Risk Right and that brings us to the main point the more connected a city is more vulnerable it is to cyber-attacks. How have the hackers in recent years. Take advantage of this so this is the interesting parts I think in recent years we've seen a lot of ransomware attack against Baltimore Atlanta some flurry in cities recently school districts in Texas as well but mostly been random normally tax nece- that have gone it money for the criminals question as we enter into an era where settlers deliberately connected they become more susceptible to more advanced determined to tax that could possibly stretch cyber warfare and other regions as well right and the and the scale scale of these attacks can prove to be quite substantial what are some examples of some of the more recent hits cities taken recently we've seen some of the potential impacts and Florida and Rivera Beach in the city one of these x. She took down the nine one one system for a period of time which obviously has tremendous impact and then you've also seen maybe more minor but potentially larger in the grand inskeep things attacks Y You've had payroll flying first of the public services as well this this concept of data alone has us all very concerned as you know. I can't imagine region cybersecurity experts as far as general concern goes. I can't imagine that this isn't at the top of the list and you're seeing this player right now. Tremendous concerns about what's been collected how it's going to be used some cities are approaching this by trying to redefine their relationship as it pertains to data with the residents so if you look at Portland Oregon for instance they hold regular meetings about this Kansas City Chiba the data bill of rights the address how they use the data and everything else say there are efforts underway but it is a major concern biggest cities have more resources. Obviously New York has dedicated cyber. Camman's in Las Vegas is working with premium companies. You pretend the networks but when he gets the smaller cities the money just isn't there a lot of times. These projects are being tagged onto other projects objects for budget reasons and say cyber. Security isn't really concerned for them so it was interesting to learn highlight this in your piece. Would you mind breaking down how easily one of these attacks can happen Schulman. I mean it depends on what kind of attack you're talking about. The example used in my piece was that anybody could download the software percents of incident for instance it would even have to have fiscal physical access to send erroneous data about say a bridge malfunction or Radiation Allama extreme circumstances divert emergency services there and that data oversee goes is through the sensor to the city's main service. They're trying to launch a virus or anything. That's the way in for them. Potentially as well. That's Promo everything being connected network. You have one point of breach and then insulin networks exposed so we're talking about the concern here and there certainly is concerned but there's also a reason that cities are doing this the push to move into the spaces obviously not gonNa go away sure. I mean it comes the basic point that you can't stop technology residents requiring better services more efficient ones and also they cities have to deal with this from a data the point of view the UN for instance projects that around two-thirds population's GonNa Live Eban areas by two thousand fifty cities have to have data in order to plan public works to plan emergency agency reactions of say the hopeless. I guess it's important to remember to be as diligent as you can with regards to your data and privacy and what you're putting out there in the world and in these cities James Rundle thanks very much thank you and that is tech news briefing from the newsroom in New York. I'm Tanya Bustos. Thanks for listening.

facebook James Rundle New York comcast Tanya Bustos Google Las Vegas China US Wall Wall Street Journal activision UN Wall Street Journal blizzard tencent Disney University of North Dakota
You Can Take the Boy Out of Kansas (but He'll Come Back to Haunt You)

Stories I Tell on Dates

51:58 min | 2 years ago

You Can Take the Boy Out of Kansas (but He'll Come Back to Haunt You)

"Today's episode starts at the mansion just any mansion the playboy mansion. What do you say? We just leave it at that. I'm Paul Shirley, and these are the stories I toll on dates. Los Angeles, a Saturday night. So the referee bounces me the ball, like referees, always. Do I take a deep breath like I always do. Of course, this is a pretty terrible coping mechanism for the chills that are running up and down my back and have left me weaken the knees, but not like s WB biscuits grant out of her which is a little surprising. I wasn't sure she was old enough to know s. w and she says swirling the purple wine in her glass and desperate for something familiar. I pick out one the hooks that holds the net to the rim because those are the same in every Jim clever. She says, she's getting it. I thought she might. She seems smarter than most of the people I might have met on a night like this and she's from zuri. She was in an issue called girls of the SEC. So she might understand the significance of mid western basketball rivalries. I tell myself I have is only for this spot because I'm trying to push from my mind one in. Important fact, if I make this free throw, I will clinch a win inside Allen Fieldhouse home to the Kansas jayhawks which almost no one does as I know all too. Well, having grown up a massive fan of those Kansas jayhawks. Stupid, Kansas fans, Missouri people in Kansas people have a good natured rivalry that wasn't always so good natured, John Brown and Quantrill raiders and all that exactly. I say I dribble twice like I've done since middle school basketball camp when they told us to shoot our free throws the same way each time. The crowd behind Maclear backboard weights ready to sway from right to left just as I used to see it do on my parents. TV the crowd does its part dick talking across. I let go of the ball while hits the front of the rim. The ball hits the back of the ramp. I look at her wanting to ask what happens next because now that I've started kind of want to tell her this story. The surprises me because for a while, this didn't seem possible, but maybe it's been long enough since I quit playing that I'm ready to tell basketball stories again or maybe it's because she caught me unawares. I didn't think I'd meet anyone. I'd want to tell any stories when I arrived at the gates to the playboy mansion brought there by famous basketball player. Scott knows because of course, Scott knows him. And of course I'm roaming Los Angeles with Scott again. Now that I've moved back here to get my writing career off the tarmac. But then she and a friend walked up and started talking to me at one thirty in the morning. They were both playmates are playmates. I should say they corrected me immediately once a playmate. Always a playmate like a president, the one from zuri, the one I'm hoping we'll ask me what happens. Next gave me a tour of the mansion grounds, then she said, we should go back to her place for a glass of wine, and that was not an invitation. A single person like me was going to turn down. The girl from the band and me, we made it all of a month in Los Angeles. The band did not survive the move, either. Okay. So did your free throw go in or not? Well, that I can't tell you yet because this isn't just a basketball story, which means we need to go back aways. So you know why she wiggles her wine glass. Need more. I nod and away we go. Okay. Let's take a quick break from the story for another story. A story about my stitch fix box, arriving Huzzah. The box was cute and easy to deal with and made me want to open it inside. We're five items of clothing too long sleeve shirts, one short sleeve shirt some socks and some shorts I was nervous because as we've discussed, I am very tall and I was right to be nervous only the shorts and the socks fit, but here's why I'm not worried, stitch fix is accounted for this. In fact, they say pretty clearly that it might take a few operations. I went online and told them what didn't work and why it was very easy. I'll drop off the return bag. They provided. I don't need to fold up the items, but I will because I'm from Kansas, and then we'll do it again. Stitch fix. Sounds like something you'd like to try to stitch fix dot com slash dates, and you'll get an extra twenty five percent off. If you keep your whole box that stitch fix dot com slash dates, maybe it's for you maybe for your next date. Maybe it's for the person you're going on the date with whatever the case is easy to sign up and there's no real risk because you only spend money if you love what you get. Okay. Let's get back to the story. Twelve. I was state versus Kansas, nine pm eastern eight PM central. I joined my first basketball team in sixth grade after twenty seconds on the court. My coach walked onto the court to call an exasperated timeout before striding to the spot on the floor where I was few to trying to figure out how to guard my opponent. He moved me bodily to the other side of the boy. No, Paul between him in the basket. After that, I pick things up pretty quickly and it wasn't long before I was in love in eighth grade. My gym teacher who would one day preside over the end of my baseball career. When I stopped a curve ball with my face asked me each day how much I'd practice the night before an hour. I'd say with pride, sometimes an hour and a half, sometimes two hours. It didn't matter to me. There was nothing I liked more than being on the gravel driveway and back with my parents house, just the ball, the basket and me. I felt like a weirdo everywhere else, but there in the driveway with my only judge the swish of the net I was free. By high school. I was harboring dreams of playing basketball in college, but not just at any college. I wanted to play at the university of Kansas once home to Wilt Chamberlain two Dean Smith and to James Naismith the inventor of basketball. It didn't hurt that. Both my parents had graduated from there for that. We lived thirty minutes from campus. Then there was that memory of that night in nineteen Eighty-eight. When Kansas won the national championship on the backs of several college kids. These names all remember forever. It was the second best night of my life right after the night in one thousand nine hundred five when Darryl motley caught the final out in right field and the Kansas City Royals won the World Series as a child. My happiness was very much tied to the performances of my favorite sports teams. My aspirations of one day playing for k. you hardly made me unique. Everyone in northeast Kansas who'd ever put his hands on a basketball had some species claim to why he would someday be a. j. Hawke. There was one difference as a junior in high school. I'd grown to six foot seven could handle myself around the basket and could make a three point shot. So my dream seemed at least reasonable for me playing at k. you wouldn't be winning a multimillion dollar Powerball jackpot. It'd be more like hitting the ten thousand dollar grand prize on one of those scratch off tickets, steal money from poor people. I spent the summer after that junior year playing more basketball than any human wasn't in the NBA tournaments on weekends, summer league games on weeknights exposure camps. During the week, I'd found an AA you basketball team, the, oh, SoHo, clean aimed Kansas pride. That was happy to have me join a front line of similar sized white guys from other small towns in the area. We were good, but not quite as good as Kansas City's AAU juggernaut the children's mercy hospital seventy Sixers home to future NBA washout Corleones young Giran, rush and future Duke star, Corey McGinty who eventually played fourteen seasons in the NBA in our defense, we weren't getting paid to play Siham. H coach, Myron, piggy would later be convicted on conspiracy charges for paying thirty five thousand dollars to high school players on the roster which helped explain why the players always had matching shoes and such good players. I hadn't been named to any of the fancy top one hundred recruiting lists populated by young, rush and McGinty. I wasn't as speedy as I would get when my body's hormonal dosage kicked up from the trickle. It was set on in my jerseys. Still hung off me like I was a scarecrow, but that summer I blossomed into something more than the dominance. Small town player. I was assumed to be in on July first recruiting call started the only problem. The voices on the other end weren't the ones I wanted to hear. My most ardent suitors were employed by the likes of North Dakota state the university of Missouri at Rawla, Colorado school of mines and northern state university, which confusingly is in South Dakota. Not a peep from Kansas hell. I didn't even hear from Kansas state and Kansas state was terrible. This was not how this was supposed to go. One of the disembodied voices coming out of the top end of the cordless phone that hung in my parents kitchen belong to Steve craftsperson, an assistant coach at the university of North Dakota. He played at North Carolina and Isla and was as he told me the only player to score and NCWA final fours with two different teams. Most of the coaches who talked to me did so as if they were reading off cue cards, like the ones I'd prepared for my first date with Kelly Stefka, but not coach k.'s. He asked predictably to be called. We had real conversations about real topics. Sports weather, girls, his wife, how he'd ended up in North Dakota and in another departure from the norm. He had a sense of humor. He sent me recruiting letters featuring cut out pictures of supermodels with dialogue bubbles that read, I hope Paul comes to North Dakota. This was more like what I thought recruitment would be like, all I needed now was for Steve craft seasons voice to be replaced by that of Matt Doherty. The. The head assistant at Kansas by the fall. The caliber of my suitors had increased slightly probably because of the natural reordering process that occurs in college basketball recruitment as it became clear that the guy above me was going to go to somewhere above them. The better schools ratcheted down their expectations. I was hearing from smaller division one schools, most of them on the east coast, and most of them have that breed of college known to be associated with smart white kids like me, the Ivy leagues the year before a done well enough on the PSAT that I'd been named a national merit finalist thusly in the eyes of Ivy league basketball coaches. I was as attractive as a cinnabon stand on cheat day. On the basketball recruitment calendar, September is home visit month. I granted as many coaches as I could the opportunity to navigate Jefferson county's gravel roads on route to the Shirley acreage of two acres. The coaches were mostly the same. The fitting coaches who were all in the places they were for about the same reason. They were honest and decent men. Both of which are characteristics generally detrimental to big time college coaching success, Dartmouth Holy Cross air force, Harvard, Missouri Rolla Washburn in the university of North Dakota. Of course, coach k. was just as great in person as he was on the phone, laughing about how his knees almost touched his chin. When he sat down in our old rocking chair, those coaches didn't tell me I'd someday play in the NBA. They didn't even say I'd play if I came to their schools. You'll have the same chances everyone they said, which was about all I could ask for. It's just I wanted to ask for it somewhere else. One day that winter while most of the coaches who were recruiting mate were focusing their attention on the teams. They already had my father said he had an idea at first, I protested. It just wasn't what people did dad, but after twenty four hours of teenage stubbornness, I came around the alternative was a home at someplace like the university of Missouri Rawla where because it was an engineering school, the male to female ratio was twelve to one. But don't worry that team's assistant coach at said, the players get all the girls I wrote down every place. I could conceivably imagine playing, maybe not Duke Kentucky or North Carolina, but north western western Kentucky and North Carolina, Charlotte, and on and on. And on. When I was done, I had a list of sixty schools using a directory dug up at the Topeka library. I found out the names of the head coach at every one of them and then I fired up. We're perfect on the Hewlett Packard that resided in my parents bedroom and turned out my letters in which I explained who I was and what I believed that inspired or the fact that I played basketball for high school in the town of seven hundred people. I was good enough to play at their respective schools. Most of the coaches didn't respond, but a few of them did at Oklahoma Kelvin Sampson wrote that he appreciated the initiative I'd taken but that he didn't have any scholarships left. Northwestern said they were full to and from. Iowa stayed in a leaning scrawl head coach, Tim Floyd said he too was sorry. But then he couldn't come up with scholarship for me. Well, Tim Floyd was writing to me. I was tearing up high school basketball courts all over northeast Kansas, fueled in no small part by all those rejections. Sometimes during my senior year, I'd only score twenty, but a lot of the time I scored thirty an accomplishment made all the more difficult. Thanks to the zones, the double teams and boxes, and ones that were engineered by opposing small town coaches by season's end average twenty five points and twelve rebounds shooting a nearly unbelievable seventy percent from field while also blocking four shots every game leading the state in both categories and we were winning. We had a coach who encouraged us to raise up and down the court. A point guard jed Traxler who transferred to our school before junior year who could throw me in alley youth and a three point shooter to take the pressure off the inside together. We took our tiny high school to the state tournament for the first time in school history. Surely. Someone would notice all of that. I thought. And so they did the university of Missouri, Kansas City you KC was interested. So was Wichita state and Drake university into Moines better, but still not the place I wanted? Sure. I'd written those letters to schools all over the country, but I hadn't given up hope on Kansas by March. Most of the high school seniors who are going to play college basketball, the following autumn had already signed their letters of intent or about to like a sophomore girl who's three months pregnant. I need to make a decision. So after we lost by seven, in the first round of the state tournament, I visited Dartmouth Harvard, the university of Vermont and the university of North Dakota at Dartmouth. I saw my first real party and I thought maybe Hanover was the right place for me, but then I came home and we figured out that my parents would have to pay fifteen thousand dollars a year for me to go to keggers with rich white people. Harvard was expensive to, of course, but it was Harvard or so said our families resident, Harvard grad, my uncle, Tom in Vermont, the coach told me he thought I could be a Rhodes scholar and at North Dakota, true to form coast k. made the competition. Look clownish, Lee, incompetent. My hotel room was filled with green and white balloons when I got to the gym on the scoreboard above a message. Read welcome Paul to the home of your future dunks. Here I was wanted. Here I would succeed here. I would probably become the team star, but at a division two school. After the visit, I told coach k. how much I appreciate it. Everything he'd done in that I'd miss him in the models. But the thing was one way or another. I was going to play division one basketball. He was disappointed. He told me, but he wasn't surprised. I might even be able to help. He said. Before taking a job at the university of North Dakota coach k. had been in assistant at Iowa State. When I told him to buzz off, he called Iowa State head coach, Tim Floyd, and told him about this kid, and no one knew about, but he thought was good enough to play in the big twelve, the sports conference that had just been formed by all the former members of the big eight and a half. The members of the southwestern conference Floyd had just given away his last scholarship. He had an idea though one of his former assistants was at southern Mississippi. Why didn't he put us in touch the next day I took a call in the high school library. It was the head coach, southern miss offering a scholarship. This was a little more like it a few days later I heard from the head coach at Davidson college in North Carolina. He was willing to fly to Kansas to watch me work out soon. After his visit, I went to Charlotte to walk the campus at Davidson, the smallest division one school in the United States, and the only one that's still did all of its students. Laundry. Then when I got back from North Carolina, two pieces of news, we're waiting after a little research. My mother had learned that it I was state status as a national merit finalist was worth a full academic scholarship. She'd gotten back in touch with the basketball office and Tim Floyd had started paying attention again if I wanted. I could come to Ames on that academic scholarship and play for the team. Technically, I would be a walk on a non athletic scholarship player, but Floyd promise not to tell anyone, but I was state would have to wait because the other piece of news was that Matt Doherty had called ROY Williams wanted me to come to Lawrence to talk. The night before the big day, I conjured various dream scenarios all of which involved roaring Allen Fieldhouse crowds Raef lafrentz than the jayhawks starting power forward high fiving the after Lael. Paul Pierce whose I practiced. I'd watched as a high school junior picking me up off the floor after I'd take an charge shock. Wban smiling at me as we both ran back on defense after I'd made a short jumper. In the morning, I put on my best Saint John's bay long-sleeve cursed the pair of Whitehead's that had made an inconvenient appearance overnight and got into the grand Voyager with my parents for the drive to Lawrence. After we found the basketball offices and after we waited the requisite fifteen minutes, we were ushered into ROY Williams plush office. His desk was a monstrosity, something out of the mediocre John Grisham novels. I was reading at the time, been the man himself appeared his voice all Honey and clover. Just like in the press conferences, I'd watched. He offered us the chairs across from his desk, my eyes wandered to the pictures of him coaching, various national teams, his arms around Jim behind Dean Smith gene Katie in then we sat. In that same accent, ROY Williams crushed my boyhood dreams. He hadn't called because he wanted me to come to Kansas. He'd called because he wanted me to go to Davidson as it turned out that random call from Davidson hadn't been all that random someone at Kansas. It called Davidson's coach about me, but that wasn't the worst of it. While I weighed what I was being told, Williams dropped the death blow. Telling me that I needed to face up to the fact that I wasn't good enough to play in the big twelve stunned I asked about Iowa State, Kansas is new, big, twelve, rival bay seem pretty interested. I said both Williams and Dougherty scoffed. You don't want to go to Iowa State, just go to Davidson. It'd be a great place for you. Were they trying to do a favor for an old friend? Were they trying to keep me out of the big twelve in case I blossomed and came back to haunt them? Or were they just trying to get me out of their office so they could get back to smoking cigars drinking port or playing cards or whatever it is that people do in a room with carpet. That's an engine a half tall. I never knew exactly. I did know that they were right about one thing. Davidson would have been a great place for me. My visit had happened on a spring weekend, so gorgeous that I almost signed up on the spot. Plus the coach at Davidson was a pulse. Shirley fan and Davidson wasn't so division. One also ran the team would eventually be known for producing NBA super duper star Steph, curry. After I staggered out of ROY Williams, his office and after my mother vowed that she'd never, again cheer for Kansas. And after I said no to Wichita state and Drake and m KC whose head coach had come to my high school with a letter of intent that he wanted me to sign on the spot. My options were set Davidson. Araya was state. Davidson seemed like the safe option. Even though it was farther away I'd be welcomed their hailed, maybe not as the future, conquering hero, but at least with open arms, Iowa State was a risk. Sure. Tim Floyd had said, no one would ever know. I was technically a walk on, but could I trust him would I really have a chance to play one late spring evening with my brothers, treating me like the rubber tires in a bumper car track. I sat down at the kitchen table and made a call him of pros and cons. Iowa State was closer Davidson was friendlier. Iowa State had an engineering program. Davidson was a better school. I'd spoken to Tim Floyd. Once I talked to the Davidson coach nearly every day, my list organized, reasonable and fittingly obsessive compulsive solved. Nothing. What did help make up my mind was the searing pain of unequivocal rejection until ROY Williams told me from behind his massive desks that I wasn't good enough to play in the big twelve. The rejections had been passive and unreturned letter a phone call that never happened. My desire for retribution had been similarly, ephemeral. I wanted to prove these people wrong, but my anger didn't have a focal point. Now, though I had something to hold onto. After I called Davidson, the coach wrote me a four page letter in which he told me how much he'd enjoyed getting to know me. It made me wonder about my decision to go to Iowa State as did the first day of pickup basketball in Ames the following autumn when future NBA first round draft, pick Kelvin. Cato spun out through down a vicious, slam dunk on top of my head as did the first weekend of official practice when we had a pair of grueling three hour sessions on Saturday and another pair on Sunday as did the first late of games during which I was mired at the end of the veg- as did laundry day. And every time I was out of clean socks. Every so often though little tendrils of life shot up practices when I'd outsmart keta with timely pump fake in early game at the university of Iowa before which coach Floyd took me aside to tell me I was going to play a lot and into which I was inserted because one of my senior teammates was ineligible. I scored a quick eight points more important though, was the feeling I got on the court. I wasn't good enough yet, but the path was getting clearer. ROY Williams was going to be wrong about meat. We made it all the way to the NCWA tournaments Sweet Sixteen my freshman year finishing with the twenty two and nine record. Thanks to five. Beloved seniors. Five beloved seniors are fans would miss the following season. My sophomore year when are twelve and eighteen record helped Dr Tim Floyd in the arms of the Chicago Bulls. This was a problem. Coach Floyd hadn't been all blessings and butter cups, but I could tell he liked me that he had plans for me one day during Christmas break. My sophomore year. He asked me to come with him to Moines after practice. He had to speak at a fundraiser. He said, when we got there, he told me I was going on stage. Are like seven hundred people out there. I said, you'll be fine. He said with the same Bri grin charmed. Most everyone he came in contact with and I was. It was a man who had confidence in me who'd said far nicer things to me than my own father. And now he was leaving in the heart of my college career, and there was no way of knowing who the athletic director would pick to replace him. But I reckon there wasn't much I could do about any of that. So that summer I went back to my parents house with myriad athletic cliches on the brain. I was a not going to let anything stop me be ready to take on the world. See going to lift harder, run faster, and work longer than anyone else. I was ridiculous. It was like I was writing slogans for those no fear shirts at once favored. But I was also serious. I knew I was close to realizing the dreams. I'd carry it around since my summer at Skinner's nursery, and I was going to do everything I could to make my dreams come true. During the day I trained at my old high school lifting weights in the fetid dungeon where at once watched their Dinsmore fracture vertebrae doing clean and jerk that night. I drove to Kansas City for summer league games in a brick of Jim near the CEO, which is a street where people are sometimes shot by the middle of the summer. The cliches were lining up. I was getting bigger, stronger better. I noticed that I was far less afraid of my opponents. Now I was starting to figure out how my body worked and my teammates on that summer league team. We're taking note often throwing the ball and telling me to go to work and take it to him. It is difficult to be at a Milan creative when you are out of Renner, then came, the news, Iowa State had hired a man named Larry you. She who'd most recently been the head coach at Utah state. My initial research turned up some data. Most of you Stacy's players at Utah state only stayed for a year or maybe two. Which did nothing to counter. What I was hearing about is too radical attitude toward coaching. Then the rumors got less room ary at the same time that I was thinking about my third year of college, my brother Dan was thinking about his first. He was headed off to play basketball at a college in Kansas called Pittsburg state, and as luck would have it. One of his new teammates had just transferred in from Utah state. I call Dan's new teammate to ask what you stay. She was like toward the end of what had already been in alarming conversation. He said, look, you seem like a decent enough guy. I'm going to tell you a no uncertain terms. You do not want to play for that man shaken. I called the man himself. When I did his wife answered. I said, your name is Stacey. You Stacey. Great start. Paul. When my new coast got on the phone, I asked him my questions. Did he know about me? It coach Floyd said anything was the starting job. I'd earned still mine. All I wanted was a little reassurance for him to tell me to calm down that he'd love the way I'd played in some game or another, but reassurance was not forthcoming. You'll have the same chances. Everyone else he said was no longer what I wanted to hear. From the outside the participants in college, basketball and football seem to have hit the jackpot, the colors, the pageantry, the fans, these things make college sports. Look like a wonderland. I had once thought this to if someone had told me in high school that I would someday get to play major college basketball, I would've asked what deal I'd have to make what the devil. However, when you're inside the machine, it's a different story. You're tired, you're overworked grown. Men are screaming at you and you realize how much money is being made in how little of it you're seeing. Sure the fans like you, but their patients is short. There were players before you. There will be players after you. Oh, and you are twenty years old with no one to guide you are to advocate on your behalf. What if I went back to Iowa State and Larry used as she didn't like how I played, what if he was already trying to find my replacement? What if he was already holding a grudge? Because I'd noticed his. Wife's rhyming name. With the wise and the what if roiling in my brain an idea popped up an imperfect solution to an imperfect problem. I called my high school coach, and I told him to get in touch with Kansas. ROY Williams would surely be excited about having me come play for him now that I'd prove my worth as a big, twelve basketball player. My coach told me he'd see what he could find out. And I went back to training and playing those games near the CEO in Kansas City getting ready for a season who's location, I didn't yet know, but whatever that was big and strong in twenty and invincible. Near the end of one of our games. I went up for a rebound it was a lot like any other rebound except that when I came down, I slipped on the Jim sweaty floor. I lost my balance and smashed my right elbow, opening it all the way to a ligament, which shone bright white, and it's little tissue taco. And that was alarming. I thought my dad agreed and we went for stitches at the hospital into PICO where my mother had once worked. The doctor on call. So I should probably have some antibiotics too. I was on a low level course for the acne that was still plaguing me in college. I asked if that was sufficient. Sure. He said three days later, my arm had swollen and was oddly hot. So I went to the offices of our favorite orthopedist where a doctor pronounced swelling was a result only of the trauma of the injury. He put me in a half caste and sent me home that night. I was sitting in our ancient rocking chair idly watching television. I'm mother came over to check on me feel okay. She asked, I shrugged and she put her hand on my forehead. I had a fever of one hundred and three. We rushed to the emergency room at the same hospital where a new doctor re-cut. The wound song stupa Fant, which is a common French phrase. I just made up to me and they couldn't use any light. Oh Cain to numb the side as it would contaminate the sample, they needed to send to the lab. By the time I was done hyperventilating from the combination of the fever and the pain that results when someone cuts into your naked flesh with the scalpel we had the verdict, a fair number of staphylococcus bacteria had invaded the Bursa in my elbow. I had what is commonly known as a staff infection. I was not. In fact, invincible. Doctors get panicky about bacterial infections. A fact with which I would become well acquainted once my brother, Dan grew up in became an infectious disease. Doctor, nurses also get pretty panicky about them effect with which I would become well acquainted right. Then my mother was never routinely sympathetic toward her sons when they were sick. This is because before her stand with the county health department, she'd worked as a nurse. I at the Veterans Administration hospital near where I was born and then at the regular hospital where I was now about to be admitted and put on IV antibiotics. Oh, you've got a cold, at least you don't have leukemia. Oh, there's a splinter in your hand. At least you have a hand. Nursing has a way of putting things in perspective. However, there's one benefit to having a nurse for a mother when something serious comes up, like a staff infection raging inside the elbow of her eldest son. She goes into action. She was on the doctor's like a drill sergeant. But not in the way that most mortals might have been, which would be to wonder why someone had accepted that. Whatever antibiotics I was on were sufficient port to ask why no one had caught the staff infection earlier that day. She was only interested in solving the problem in front of her getting me upstairs and making sure I didn't lose an arm. Meanwhile, I wasn't doing much thinking at all extreme fevers. Having that affect on people. I was mostly worried about when I would be able to close my eyes because the fever and all the pain killers they pumped into me after the scalpel work. These things had me sleepy. So it was with only partial interest in the situation that I watched. My parents closed the door to my hospital room telling me they'd be back in the morning. It is usually lazy and possibly disingenuous to skip to the next part of a story by saying. And the next thing I knew, however, in this case, it was the truth that the next thing I knew my parents were walking through the door and then they weren't walking or one of them wasn't anyway. My mom was rushing to my bedside, her eyes wide and her nostrils flared. She grabbed my arm started your antibiotics. Like I said, I wasn't using shortcut when I said the next thing I knew my mom's is got even wider and she world for the door. I can only imagine what happened at the nurses station in terms of the supernatural, like my mom's sprouting scaly wings and turning into a demon. Rightfully so someone had forgotten to start the IV antibiotics that had been deemed urgent. The night I was admitted to a hospital where in addition to having once worked, she'd given birth to all three of my brothers. I'll never know. Of course, whether I was close to losing my arm or to any of the other catastrophes that might have befallen my body of the staph infection had gone checked. I also do not know how much of the Bill from my three day stay in the hospital. My parents had to pay, but my educated guess is none of it. I do know that when I got out of the hospital, it was with a port in my arm through which I've e- antibiotics were delivered for the next two weeks during daily trips back to the hospital. Thanks to all this trauma in the fact that I couldn't work out while my body recovered from its invasion. I also lost twenty pounds. I didn't have to lose all of this while all manner of Macintoshes had probably been going on at Iowa State and at Kansas. Sometime during my recovery, a chill, flushed, my spine. I told my high school coach to call Kansas hadn't. I regret poured through me in a way that is familiar to anyone who's checked the messages they sent after at night, made hazy by drinking. My call had made a lot of sense when I'd been a hail athletic specimen that almost any college program would be happy to have it made a whole lot lessons now that I'd return to looking like a scarecrow the real problem was this one by asking my coach to call Kansas. I'd already largely committed to carrying through with going Kansas. If the new coach at Iowa State this you stay. She fellow found out I was considering leaving. Well, that's probably why someone I applied the phrase burning bridges to situations that didn't involve actual bridges. I dialed my high school coach with even more fear than when I'd called Kelly step kit for the first time coach. Yeah. Did you call Kansas? There was a pause. No, Paul didn't. It felt the little disloyal. I don't know that my si- of relief was audible. I do know that it was a conflicted sigh of relief because on the one hand, my high school coach had inadvertently saved me from a storm of confusion and he wasn't wrong. I had to be thankful for what I'd gotten so far from Iowa State, but on the other heat, sorta kinda taken my destiny in his own hands. And what I'd gotten from Iowa State, I mostly owed to the man who just left. Then there was that quote, from my brothers, new teammate, you do not want to play for that man, but I'd had enough conflict for one summer, so I reported to my now familiar campus tilling. No one had designs on being there again. In my first encounter with my new coach, the husband of Stacey, you stay. She did nothing to allay my concerns about his interpersonal skills. When I was finished telling him the story of my terrifying summer, he said, well, at least you weren't the guy. I was reading about a few days ago. He got a staph infection while sailing across the Atlantic lamb self and had to cut off his own arm. Okay. Well, you're not wrong coach, but jeez, thanks to the staff infection. Thanks to a long term strategy. You stay. She was cooking up. It was decided that I was going to spend the season as a redshirt, a player who can practice, but not play. The plan was for me to gain weight and strength. While we awaited the arrival of a couple of recruits that were going to make far better the following season, then even that plan fell apart. When I recovered from the staff infection, a sharp pain in my pelvis led to the discovery of an aversion fracture in my right issue them the bone in your pelvis that makes it look like a poorly, John Hart. My hamstring had pulled a piece of this phone away which explain the stabbing pain. Anytime I leaned over to pull on a pair of socks. This was on top of the staff infection and those on top of the fact that you stay, she had never seen me play. Faded into the background, a ghost relegated to the sidelines during practice in St. closed during games, ignored by my coaches and teammates. They were getting distance from me like I was a leper or an ex girlfriend. I couldn't blame them. I didn't know if I'd be able to play college basketball. Again, there was though one thing I could do lift weights. So each day is my teammates started practice. I reported to the weight room where I listened to Zach della Rocca rage while I took out my frustrations on the assorted weight lifting apparatus available to me when I got into college, I weighed two hundred pounds and bench, press one hundred and eighty five of them, which by the standards of college basketball would be labeled terrible. By the end of that Richard season, two hundred and thirty pounds. It could bench press three hundred and thirty, which by the standards of Larry, Stacey would be labeled as acceptable, but which by the standards of most people would be labeled as nearly superhuman. As winter turned to spring, I was cleared to practice on the court. I noticed that my newfound Braun provided me with a new set of options. If I wasn't scoring points or getting rebounds, I could keep other people from doing those things before I'd relied on my wits on the court. Now I was relying on my body and in the process becoming that, which I'd once resented the physical specimen who throws himself around the court, like he's the disk in a game of air hockey, but I told myself it would be worth it because the thing that is usually true about guys who are big and play hard. Basketball coach will find a way to get those guys on the court. Even if that coach is the sort of asshole, who when you explain your staff infection to him shrugs and tells you that at least you didn't have to cut off your arm. We started the following season my junior year on a sour note losing two of our first three games, but we found the melody after that winning twenty two of the next twenty three and rising to number fourteen in the national polls. Well, also, jostling for position atop the big twelve conference despite his prickly demeanor or perhaps because of it, you stay. She had done a masterful job of pairing income and superstar Marcus visor with Iowa's dates, newest toy, Brooklyn playground legend. Dumol Tinsley. Next up was a game in the home of the team with which we were jostling at the top of the conference table, the university of Kansas. The game was on ESPN. Part of that network's big Monday coverage. It had been a year and a half since the staph infection. And the memory of my dalliance with Kansas had been replaced by a familiar narrative. The one that featured ROY Williams telling me I would never be good enough to play in the big twelve. And yet here I was ROY doing exactly that. The week before the game. I stayed for an extra hour after each practice shooting free, throws the image of ROY Williams face floated above the basket. Somehow I was going to show him show all of them that I belong. I wasn't sure how though. Knew better than anyone how rarely Kansas lost on its home court inside cavernous Allen Fieldhouse named after legendary coach Forrest Claire thog Alan whose mentor had been the guy who invented the game. These are two of the ghosts that haunt Allen Fieldhouse. They aren't the only ones. There's Dean Smith who learned the game at fog Allen's feet before becoming a coaching legend in his own, right. There's CLYDE Lavelle lead Kansas to its first national championship in nineteen fifty two. There's any manning we'd lead Kansas to its second national championship in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight causing me to go into paroxysms of joy. Won't spotted manning at the end of an aisle in the Lawrence WalMart, we were in town to watch the Christmas vespers program put on by the university. I was nine years old. Do I asked my mother. For his autograph. Mr. manning, can I have your autograph. It was still in a cork board in my childhood bedroom as the game tipped off. Many years later, Kansas forward, Nick collison would tell me that at halftime of the game after I'd outwitted him and his teammate drew Gooden for several offense. Rebounds ROY Williams screamed at both of them. Do you knew over Meridian which he said wrong, not knowing right one Kansas is no. Well, if Shirley gets another offensive rebound in the second half, I'm going to tight in my car and after the game, I'm going to drag you there. I think I got another offensive rebound in the second half and I don't think ROY Williams tied either policy or good and do his car. He must've forgotten caught up in the excitement like everyone inside Allen Fieldhouse. He could be forgiven. The oversight our game was one of those that made kids like me fall in love with basketball and old fashioned barn burner that had all fifteen thousand eight hundred fans on their feet. For most of the game, the roar they created came at us like Wade's so loud that we had to signal each other with our hands. It was all I could do to keep from thinking. About what was happening. We were really doing it beating Kansas in the place where no one beats Kansas in I was having a lot to do with it. Coach stay. She may not have been the sort of gentle soul. I wanted him to be, but he was smart enough to take advantage of six foot nine, two hundred and thirty pounds. Human was willing to turn himself into a missile in the service of retribution. At the end of play, went our way, and then a plate went their way, and then a play went our way again. And pretty soon there wasn't much time left and the game came down to the end of the story was also the beginning of the story. Me at the free throw line in Allen Fieldhouse with a chance to seal the win for my team at Kansas and a chance to seal something like vindication for myself. I was sweating hard in my red and gold uniform, which seemed godly bright. When mixed up with Kansas is pristine home whites behind me. A giant Jayhawk was painted across the floor. The mythical bird had replaced a massive, yellow map of Kansas, the color and shape burned into my memory from those games I used to watch as a child. I was tired from all those rebounds and from the days of preparation leading up to the game, the late nights and the post practice free throw sessions. When imagined. This vary scenario visualizing ROY Williams, his face anytime I got tired or felt like quitting the crowd bought and the basket swayed from right to left now, dribble twice and I shot my free throw and the ball bounced once on the front of the rim. And once on the back. And then as with most things in life, it just happened no more preamble, no more anticipation. No more preparation. The ball fell through the net. We need just wanted Kansas. The crowd inside Allen Fieldhouse didn't roar because home crowds don't roar for the opposition. They seemed a little pissed off in fact, robbed of their chance to start the chant that brings forth ago STS raw Shah Jay. Haw my teammates skipped toward one another ready to celebrate ready to leap into waiting arms. I walked toward the Iowa State bench a few yards from ROY Williams. I'd imagine this moment ever since that visit to his office through practices through early morning. Wakeup calls through summer sessions on the track through feverish nights with IV antibiotics being dispensed into my arms, ROY Williams words bouncing through my head like one of those Super Bowls in the back of a u. haul. It wasn't just about him. Of course it was all of them. All of those division. One coaches who thought I was too skinny or too short or from two small town. This didn't make me any different from thousands or millions or billions of others before me driven by something a man said to them. But in this case it was me and now I had to decide what to do with ROY Williams. The options ran through my head like a menu. Should I shake his hand and say, nothing. Should I give him a wink in laugh? Should I flip in the bird? Then through the fans, the players, the people from ESPN his is found mine like a Kennedy bullet, didn't odd. I didn't. Wink. I didn't flip him the bird only smiled and he only looked away because I was twenty one years old and because I was more by rage than reason. It was only the greatest feeling I'd ever had. The playmate from zuri taps. The side of her empty wine glass with a blood red fingernail. She says the pretty much forgotten about almost becoming a traitor. My laugh and lean into the vinyl behind me, the ignorance of youth Irit just trying to square the circle in your head. I can feel the wrinkle in my brow. What do you mean? Like people who get divorced? I once read somewhere that usually when people split up there on okay terms. But by the end, there's a good chance. They'll hate each other because of the lawyers and stuff. No, because they need to convince themselves that they made the right decision. Our brains don't linked to be uncomfortable, so I had to decide I hated ROY Williams even though like forty, five percent. We wanted to still be playing for him exactly swirl the fuel remaining drops of blind around the crimson dot at the bottom of my glass, it'll probably only get worse want it. Way better. The story as I get older, I'll probably forget more and more about how many ways I could have ended up at Kansas, and it'll become a story about me versus big bad, ROY Williams. She says, rising out of her chair still a hell of a story, though this is what I wanted to hear all that long. Of course. We moved to her bedroom. She's got one of those memory foam mattresses and lying down as a relief after a night of standing around at the playboy mansion. We kiss a little, but nothing happens as it were. It's too late and she says, she's not that kind of girl. And as I go to sleep, I'm feeling pretty good about that because who knows it might be kind of interesting to date a former playmate, take her home to Kansas have meet my family. People won't understand because they never do, but who am I to judge her for being in playboy. I was in the NBA and people make all sorts of judgments about that. Not to mention. She's wiser than she has any right to be. As I drift off. I'm congratulating myself on the new maximum. I've just worked up. Just as you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. You shouldn't judge a playmate by her centerfold. My wake up today, daylight streaming into her bedroom. It must be ten AM I'm alone. So she's probably in the bathroom or maybe in the kitchen. I do a quick body scan to gauge how I feel, which is not nearly as bad as I thought considering that I had way more than one free drank before that bad rapper took the stage at the mansion I look around the room, live laugh. Love is on blocks on a shelf, and there's a dance like no one's watching poster and such things might turn me off if she sold insurance or top third grade. But in this case they serve as ballast kind of weighed against the playboy thing. Like all the other things I've done service counterweight against the playing in the NBA thing. I continue my survey of the room rotating my head counterclockwise asked the dresser, the mirror, another shelf, this one with candles on it, and that's when I see it above her bed, blown up to twenty four inches by thirty six inches is a picture. It's her own centerfold. I turn sharply so I can see the whole thing. I'm hoping it will at least be painful pans covering pubis, that sort of thing. It is not tasteful. One hand is on her hip, pushing her naked pelvis toward the camera, her breasts are fully exposed making the photo more National Geographic than not. But most important. It's above her bed. Hey, she says from the doorway I world from the poster. Hi, my voice has more enthusiasm than I intend because my brain is being overrun with questions. What happens when her parents come to visit when friends are over with unsuspecting gentlemen, collars like myself, she leans into the door jamb playing de and get back. I say. If you think you could take me to my car. Remember what I said about not judging girl by her centerfold. That's only true if it isn't hanging over her bed. Thanks for staying all the way to the end on a serious note. I appreciate that you took the time to listen to my voice, and I hope you'll subscribe and share with your friends, a big, thank you to lunch, break entertainment for their help in bringing this oral adventure to life because everyone should go on an adventure once in a while. Oh, by the way, that's oral with an AU, Google it. If you have to.

Kansas basketball ROY Williams Iowa State NBA Dr Tim Floyd Kansas City Allen Fieldhouse Iowa Paul Jim university of North Dakota playboy mansion North Carolina Paul Shirley university of Kansas Davidson Dean Smith North Dakota Kansas jayhawks
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1:30:26 hr | 1 year ago

550 AOPA Foundation You Can Fly Challenge

"This is the airplane geeks podcast or emails to educate and inform. You explore and expand your passion for aviation in entertain you a little along the way this episode. We talk with Jennifer storm, the vice president of the AARP foundation in the news. The Cirrus SF fifty vision jet fleet is grounded due to an AOA indicator issue, some CFM international leap, one a and leap. One b engines are experiencing a fuel nozzle coking problem. A New York Times report questions Boeing seven eight seven Dreamliner production quality, the end nine AM flying wing has crashed killing the pilot. There seems to be a correlation between eighty S b and a lower accident rate and power lines. Save a Sesto one seven two, although we don't recommend you. Try this yourself all that and more coming up right now. Welcome to the airplane. Geeks podcast. This is episode five hundred and fifty of the show where we talk aviation. I Mex flight. Joining me is max trescott. He's host of aviation. News talk podcast. He's the two thousand eight I of the year, and he's an expert on learning to fly or purchase a series aircraft. He max. Hey, hello. Max got here back just in time. I was off soloing a sixteen year old student. I tell you when he got done he had a grin that went from ear to ear. And I swear he was at least two feet taller amazing ferry. Very exciting. That is that is it's such a meaningful thing for someone. That's so young to accomplish that. And I think it's going to affect the rest of his life. You know, that's the one of the last things I told them was everybody remembers the first so for the rest of their life that just kind of pick it kind of sunk in his mom. Was there too? So they were they were both very happy. Cool. Cool. How she's very proud. Totally. All right. Also with us is David Vanderhoek, our aviation historian military aviation expert, and he blogs at what just flew by dot com. I david. Hey, everyone just so, you know, I do know the difference between Jimmy Doolittle and b twenty five Mitchell. Just so, you know, also, I also know that according to Twitter, I don't know this. But James Stewart did fly bombers typically be twenty four in World War Two and b forty seven's and B fifty twos and be fifty eight. So yes, I know he was a bomber pilot. But other than that it's been a great week. So that takes care of all of my errors for the screw ups for the week. Okay. Everyone of us has allowed at least one or two. Well, our guest. This episode is Jennifer storm. She's vice president of the AARP foundation. Now, Jennifer oversees all aspects of the foundation, including donor stewardship major in plan gifts annual giving corporate grants and operations and his vice president of a oh PA foundation Jennifer's focused on funding programs that grow the pie population improve safety and make flying more accessible and affordable. Jennifer joined AO PA in two thousand four after flight instructing at the university of North Dakota. She developed education programs for the air safety institute and later led the production team she then went on to serve as director of the ALPA airport support network. That's a national network of two thousand volunteers they help AO PA. Promote protect and defend community airports. Jennifer, then led AO PA's public relations efforts in the flight training initiative, which was the precursor to the you can fly program that we all know in addition to her roles at AO PA, Jennifer served as chief operating officer of assessment compliance group, and as director of US network engagement and performance for United way worldwide. Jennifer, welcome to the airplane. Geeks podcast. Thank you all. So very much for having me. We really appreciate the opportunity to share. What's new, Jennifer? And I saw each other for the first time at sun and fund just a couple of weeks ago. We had a great long conversation and learned a lot about what Jennifer's doing these days. And we wanted to get her on the show kind of his soon as possible. So we're we're happy that we were able to arrange that as as quickly as this max trescott you also saw. I'm Jennifer didn't you sudden fun? This is the third time Jennifer, and I have talked since January. I guess we we we've been crossing paths a lot this year. All right, great. So why don't we get started? With some of the aviation news from the past week is everyone ready ready from the west ready all set. Well, it seems a theme has emerged in our news stories lately lapses of quality in the nation industry for obvious reasons, we all want the industry to take its role of keeping us safe seriously, but we've seen examples lately or claims that are raising concerns, and maybe shaking public confidence. So why don't we start with rob marks article? And flying magazine, our young listener aerial pointed this to us saying with love to hear your opinion on this. A specially max west. So this is from flying magazine FAA grounds, all Cirrus vision. Jets over angle of attack issues of the FAA's issued an emergency airworthiness directive it grounds. The Cirrus SF fifty vision fleet due to an issue with the angle of attack indicators that has. Reduced in uncommanded pitch down in three incidents mex- t the sounds. Kind of eerily familiar yet, certainly not the kind of thing you want to have happened. Let me make mention of a couple of noteworthy things here. I rob didn't get much sleep the night. He worked on that article because about ten o'clock his time. I sent him a text and said, hey, have you seen this? And he said, no. That's what I woke up the next morning. This is what was that flying magazine? So I apologize to him for Sunday get to him too late. Also, the photograph on the top of that article is November one whiskey alpha, which is the first customer delivery aircraft. So I recognize that it was back at the factory one of the times. I was there. So that's kind of fun to see. So the company has in by the way, I should say I really don't know much more about all of this other than what I've read publicly though, I've been tracking the incident for oh probably a little over a week. Now, the company reports that in the very last year, I think it was November December they had an incident, and then they had two other incidents within the last month or so, and they appeared to be similar in the key thing that they've uncovered is that the angle of attack indicator which is supplied to them by, you know, a third party company who by the way is not the same supplier to Boeing appar. There were manufacturing defects in that to censor. If we look at the emergency AD that the FAA came out with it gives a lot of detail about exactly what the the issue was. And they mentioned specifically that there were two set screws that secure the potential motor shaft, the AOA vein shaft that may have been improperly torched, and that in some cases, there was no application of Loctite to secure the to set scores. So just to kind of back up here, you can think of a potential monitor is kind of like the volume control that you would see in a classic radio or classic TV. And when you are turning the knob of that volume control your varying, the the resistance in that information is then sent back to control your kind of the same thing with the Shefa with the AOL indicator as it moves up and down. It's twisting, a potentially ometer, and you can imagine that the connection between the vein which is hanging outside the aircraft and the shaft of that potentially ometer. Has to be good. There can't be any slippage. Otherwise, you're gonna get inaccurate readings. And let peers to be exactly what's happened here. There's been slippage between that vein which is out there flying in the wind and the potential Matre which is used to generate a specific resistance, which is then measured to determine what angle the the shaft is at. So I think the good news here is that both Cirrus in the FAA responded very quickly. And while the fleet is probably going to be grounded for you know, a couple of weeks that means roughly one hundred twenty jets around the world aren't going anywhere until they've got to new angle attack indicators installed. I think it really speaks. Well for all involved that they dealt with this issue very quickly. I should also mention that there's a very easy override procedure, which was published very early on which is on the side stick that the pilot used to control those jet. There is a a yellow button down near the base a little bit, which is kind of a master disconnect. Override and holding that is going to. To totally disconnect any uncommanded, you know, pitch things that my either stick shaker movement or things like that. So there been good communication good procedures to override any particular failures. And now everything is going to get fixed. But it's going to take it least a few weeks to get enough sensors out in the field and could all these aircraft test flown and then back up in the air. Yeah. That's exactly what I was gonna ask you about the time. And if there are enough of the newer sensors in the pipeline to to support the fleet. Yeah. I think the answer is no there aren't enough right now. Because if there were they would all been shipped out today, you know. And I think there's a, you know, a small number of which are due to start shipping at the end of this week. I believe I've heard and then there's going to be I think a bit of a rotating pool as people send in their old sensors. I think though, I'm not contra percents. Sure. I think they're going to rework those and then send them out. And that's why there's going to be a little bit of a delay. To get one hundred twenty things available and ship to all these jets, which are located around the world. All right. Our next story is from simple flying. This is airlines asked to check seven three seven max and eight three twenty Neo engines after failure risk found what they're seeing is higher than expected coking on the fuel nozzles on the CFM international leap one. A and leap. One b engines you can normally expect a certain amount of carbon build up on the fuel nozzles. But apparently not at the rate that they are seeing that that kind of build up can lead to uneven temperatures and hot spots in then you can get premature wear of hot section components. And in fact, we actually saw this on a southwest seven three seven max that was flying to victory for storage. When that flight the pilots declared an emergency after. Using the right engine the seven three seven landed safely, but engine makers CFM, I found that coking it had occurred, and it resulted in a turban blade failure. Which of course, that that ends the operation of that engine right there. When that happens, we call that medal in the tailpipe because that's usually what you find. But again, this is the leap one a and the leap one b the leap one eight is used on the Airbus A three twenty family along with the Pratt geared turbofan and the leap one b is used on the Boeing seven three seven. Now. There's no mention of it. But there is a leap one. See you guys know what the c stands for any guesses. This for the COMEX see nine one nine the Chinese airliner in roughly the same same class. So that's how CFM international designates their engines. So this is, you know, another another problem this affects the seven three seven that engine. The leap one b is sole source on the seven three seven max aircraft. So that affects all of them. Of course, the Airbus A three twenty family is well what they're doing now is increased inspections Boris cope inspections. So that's a pretty easy thing to do. You don't have to take the engine apart or anything, you just insert the Boers scope inside the engine, and you take a look and see if if there's a coking issue or not, and I guess they're only finding it on a limited number of engines. But. It is another problem. That's not contributing to confidence in some of this new hardware, but the only saving grace about this is Boeing can point it to somebody else. Yes. This is not an air framer issue. This is an engine issue. So you can you can sort of go. Well, it's not just me. It's also Airbus. So you can't blame us this time. Now, there is another issue going on as reported by the New York Times that does land squarely in Boeing's slap. The New York Times published an article claims of shoddy production dress scrutiny to a second Boeing jet. Now, the New York Times reported an investigation of the seventy seven Dreamliner head revealed what they called quote shoddy production and weak oversight that have threatened to compromise safety and. They found quote, a culture that often valued productions speed over quality facing long manufacturing delays, Boeing pushed its workforce to quickly turn out dream liners at times ignoring issues raised by employees ease. This is not very helpful to to Boeing at this point. And I was kind of tree with a similar to restore that we ran probably a month or two ago, which talked about the stopping production of one of their military aircraft because of residual debris inside the aircraft when they're being delivered. And we're hearing the same thing apparently this happened with the the seven eight seven at the time. I mentioned that the huge amount of hiring that's happened with Boeing over the past year. And again, I just wonder if perhaps there have been so many new people brought in that it's a little tough to keep the coal company culture and the processes and procedures, you know, going smoothly as you're ramping up your workforce. It is kind of frightening that we're talking now multi. Factories in multiple states in multiple programs. I mean, this is a this is a cultural failure you've got the seven three seven max on the technology side. You got the Casey forty six where it's a production issue. And that's being produced in Seattle. And now we've got seven eight seven line in South Carolina with the same kind of production issues. This is Boeing is going to need to do is some sort of stand down or there's a real cultural issue there in that whole work. We're gonna sation tipping good for business on overt of at least one sale to China which went to Airbus, and it's not clear whether Boeing how to good shot at that. But certainly this is going to be one of those things that could tip buyers one way or the other or if nothing else force them to get some concessions out of Boeing if they do go ahead with their orders from Boeing. Yeah. It really does have the the feel of a cultural issue like David points out and. These things can be difficult. I think yeah. I think it's a combination. Well, I don't know. But I can speculate that it's a combination of of factors due to this huge increase in the orders in the building of production rates and affects not only the airframe framers. But also the the component suppliers as well, the engine OEM's and other aero structure and component suppliers. Everybody is just ramping up to these almost unprecedented volumes, and that's not an easy thing to do. And it's not easy to do and maintain the level of quality that that you need. So I don't know if that's you know, what we're seeing here or something else. But some of the stories and he's come from a variety of sources for the New York Times investigation from present and past employees ease from whistle blowers from documents that they've looked at. But you know, they've found they've found five is David. I think mentioned chewing gum holding together part of a doors. Trim one thing really concerning is some some damaged parts that ended up missing. Some of the employees are wondering did those get installed on production aircraft? So these are these are serious issues. There's another one that talks about discovery of cluster of metal slivers hanging over wiring the commends the flight. Controls and as they point out if sharp metal pieces were penetrate, the wires that could be catastrophic. So that's really worrisome. Yeah. Yeah. And and like what what you just both discussed. You know, we're talking about a broad. It's not just like one area of assembly. It's multiple areas and multi. I I'm really surprised. That we haven't heard more stories, and I have a feeling now that the floodgates rope. And we're going to hear a lot and it's going to be damaging to Boeing big time. Yeah, I started my career in a factory, and it's kind of interesting to see as you get toward the end of the month. There's always tremendous pressure to get things out the door by the end of the month. Simply because that's how revenue is is recognized when the shipments of occurred. And so just makes one wonder are the same kind of pressures here too quickly get it out the door. So you can market as being shipped. So you can make your your revenue number and when that happens sometimes corners cut, you know, and it's like the old saying you never buy a car that was built on a Monday or Friday. Yeah. I don't know. Jennifer max, can you recall any or similar sorts of issues and in the past with generally VA, Shen aircrafts nothing. Nothing comes to my mind that sort of equivalent to this or or that might provide some lessons, they'll the only glitch it kind of comes to mind is win suspect purchased Columbia, and then moved production to Mexico, and there were at least one incident of wing dilemma nation that occurred and after a lot of research, they discovered oh, the humidity is a little higher in Mexico than it is in bend, Oregon that apparently was contributing to the the wings which made of composite not forming up as correctly as they should. All right nother story. David you've found that this is something that just just occurred. This is some some bad news, actually. Yeah. As we record this as Monday. April the twenty second this afternoon outside of Tino, California planes of fame had a catastrophic failure with their and nine m b it's a total. It's a total loss, including the pilot, which is the more important. But you're talking at the end nine m if you don't know it is Jack Northrop second flying wing. They made four of them. It was the prototype. That led to the be thirty five to be forty nine in eventually the B two. It's the proof of concept. It's probably in my opinion, the prettiest of all of the flying wings with its yellow and blue and just it's just gorgeous. And unfortunately, it had a failure today in crashed leaving the only the end one m which is Jack. Northrop's first original flying wing, which is still is located at the adversity center and dismiss Oni. And so the original were and that one's called the Jeep. But the they had SP had a had a loss of failure an inflight fire in two thousand and ten with the planes of fame rebuilt it again, I remember growing up reading air progress. And and watching the restoration of it when they finally got it the fly again, and they were flying it routinely at airshows. It's a very sad and tragic day more importantly for the loss of the pilot, but for us historical people, you know, from a standpoint of rare aircraft in flying them in restoring them the flight condition. This is one of those times where you sort of. I wonder if it's sometimes really worth it. But having seen photographs and videos of that air. Craft flying. It should have been restored to flight worthiness. But it's unfortunately, we lost it. Yeah. I think that's the the classic issue. Do you fly these lovely old airplanes, or do you just leave them in a museum? So you don't end up losing them eventually. And it's it's a tough question that we had president of planes and fame museum Steve Hinton on an episode three eighty six back in early two thousand sixteen and I remember we ask him about the flying characteristics of this aircraft, and I may not be remembering exactly correctly. But I seem to recall him saying that there was a tendency for it to kind of fall off one wing when you were in turn. And so that it was, you know, a little bit more difficult to fly than typical aircraft. Yeah. I 'cause no one who asked him the question. What's it like the fly it, and there was very few people qualified the flight, and you're talking about an aircraft that you know, is all. Playing and you're controlling your Bank and pitch by elevator elevates speedbreaks for all intents purposes on the wings and the pitches of the propellers flying wings or unique aircraft and Jack Northrop Bush. Sure that that was the future flight, but. You know, it was it's it's a real loss for the it's a loss for the war board community. It's a loss for planes of fame, and it's a loss of life, which we never want to hear so. Yeah. And I to plane one visit to museum they used to keep it inside the museum behind the ropes, and then on certain days, they would take it out to fly it. It's a remarkably small, but as you said, David, absolutely beautiful aircraft. Do we know is this performing an air show or something or were they just flying this for other reasons, do we know wanna planes, a famous big airshows is coming up. So I'm sure they were taking it out, and, you know, getting some hours on it just to get ready for the upcoming airshows. So they they flew it on a regular basis. So it wasn't like it was a rarity for it to go up. It just in this case something happened. And we'll eventually we'll find out what? Yeah. So. Thoughts with the family? All right. Let's see this is an item from a oh PA study shows accidents less likely with ADS in max trescott. What's what's the story here right into the few days ago? And I thought that was rather intriguing. It's the first time, I think I have ever heard that particular claim it's good to know. So it's I I think if you go back a few years a lot of pilots were opposed to having to spend money on ATSB out Ori DSP end. So I think it's pretty gratifying to find out. The apparently, according to the study, there are fewer crashes with the aircraft that that have the system. So make probably makes makes it all worthwhile for people to invest in the money to get this kind of Queant in is this because of greater awareness of the the the situation around the aircraft. Yeah, I would say almost certainly have been flying in traffic equipped aircraft. I one hundred percent of the time for the last ten twelve years, and it's just remarkable how you can start voiding aircraft even before you can visually acquire them. So often to my senior craft, you know, five six miles away. I'm starting to change altitude or change heading even though I wouldn't have seen the aircraft at best until it was perhaps two miles away. So I suspect that's why we're having fewer close calls. Jennifer. Are you are you a whole to find the time to fly these days? Absolutely as much as possible. Obviously we have big goals to meet for the air. So that comes first, but flying as close of a second as it could possibly be it are you flying generally eighty s be equipped aircraft. Are you finding pretty, you know, solid implementation of that so far as we start this year. I'm very fortunate. I get to fly a range of aircraft and part of that is working at PA with a lot of colleagues who are pilots and aircraft owners. And so I get in at quite. Range of avionics. But what I've found is that the DSP inside which is more of the optional work at is so helpful for situational awareness, and, you know, thinking back to my days flight instructor, and we were first learning to fly even far back before that into historical aviation. It's really amazing. What we have now compared to what folks had a long time ago. You has quite a bit different probably a lot different than when you started flying mex- only question, you know, when I flew sort of taking lessons in the seventies. We essentially had to view our receivers and sometimes the transponder, but you know, really really that. So it's it's amazing. How much things have changed over the last years? But if you think about it probably the biggest changes in our lives over the last several decades have been in the electron IX area, and so that's reflected near planes as well. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Another item last item. And we kind of talked about this in the post show last time. I think is this the same one crashing small plane was snagged by power. Lines. That's right. We talked a little bit after the show. This had just happened last week as we were putting together our episode, and it's one of those just remarkable situations where you go. Wow. These people are incredibly lucky, and essentially what happened is that if Cessna one seventy two was flying from the Niagara Falls down to Long Island at night, and they had very poor weather when they arrived. I believe the the visibility was somewhere around a quarter of a mile. Of course, most typical instrument approaches would be only as good as a half mile, which meant that they were flying at airports with weather where the hot succeeding in for slim to zero they did four perches at Republic airport before they diverted to Kennedy because that was the point where they finally told ATC that they were running out of gas, and they did about one turn of the hold and then they did run out of gas crashed into a neighborhood, and you would expect that it would be. A completely fatal crash and yet they managed to snag some power pole wires and miraculously this aircraft just stopped about a foot or two before it hit the ground. So it it couldn't have been any more perfect. So that these three people could essentially just hop a foot or two down to the ground. They're only injury. Among the thrill in was a broken finger, and I would say that they should probably play the lottery because this is this is a most unusual kind of occurrence. I can only remember two other incidents where planes have been snagged by wires one was a Cessna one fifty too many years ago up in the Seattle area. And that was just a Davey afar. Landing. But that pilot was left hanging upside down for hours until they could figure out how to get them down from the aircraft. Another one was a Cirrus that was flying at night in Texas and he flew particularly long down win because he was following. Another aircraft. And as he flew the long down windy got a little bit too low when he turned final, and he clipped power lines and his wife actually was the one who pulled the power shoot after they hit the wires. Normally that would be too low to survive. However, they then hit a second set of wires and the parachute snagged in the second set of wires. And they to ended up hanging a foot or two off the ground. So these kinds of miracles occasionally happen, but I wouldn't want to count on them when I'm out there flying. Yeah. That's what I was gonna ask. You is a is a strategy. When all else has lost aiming for the wires is probably not what you wanna do. No. It's that's pretty low. It's kind of like the hail Mary. Actually have a friend who was flying and had an inflight fire and plan to make an off airport landing, and as he was approaching a road the power lines blended in because it was, you know, black color of the power lines against the black color of the road. And so he didn't even see them. And unfortunately it flipped when they hit the pilots tough to anticipate how that will actually all end up, but it caused a very serious accident because of that so fortunate he survived, and I've often thought that roads make really lousy landing strips. I remember bringing to six back from the factory and Kansas with the the new owner and we've been flying for probably twenty minutes, and I just kind of said, hey, if you know, the engine quit now where would you go, and we were surrounded by fields as far as the I could see and he said oh that road right down there. And there was a little two lane road. And of course, every road goes to something that mankind has built in people always want to trinity at those plays. And so there were wires right along that road as well too. And I think, you know, our instincts are probably often not correct when we think about roads, especially smaller ones. Again, we're speaking with Jennifer storm. She's vice president of the AO PA foundation. Jennifer again, welcome to the show. You know, when you start to look at AO PA, what you find is that it's it's not just one sort of, you know, uniform organization. I mean, there are lots of different focus areas are components or segments. AO PA foundation being one of them. How do you guys refer to the different pieces of of a oh PA? I said great question. Max, it's a question. I get often. So Abe, okay is a membership association and their work is funded by membership dues and most people are familiar with the incredible advocacy work of our government affairs team. I we also have our publications like a, okay pilot and flight training magazine. And of course, the website and then outreach and events where we get to meet members in person and. Interact with them in ways that we simply can't do from Frederick Maryland without getting out to see them with our regional events. And then of course, the pilot information center that you can call or Email on for any technical questions and the member services team that really does support the membership quite a bit. Whereas the foundation we are a nonprofit organization, so we are a true five a one c three which is what makes contributions tax deductible. We support anything that helps build a stronger safer pilot community and really the the two really important ways that we're doing that right now is through the APA you can fly program that's getting and keeping more pilots flying as well as the AARP air safety institute, that's helping pilots. Fly more safely. Jennifer. Tell us a little bit about the sort of the mission of the APA foundation. So the AP foundation is really focused on building a stronger, safer pilot community so anything about APA as a membership organisation. They are looking at building a larger group of engaged in active, not just pilots aircraft owners, but also aviation enthusiasts and people who see the value of GI when the membership dues come in. They're focused on funding things like our advocacy work. Our publications and outreach in vents are pilot information center and other members services, whereas that dues revenue cannot possibly cover the work that we do from the foundation side with funding. The you can fly program to get more pilots flying and to get the safety. Institute's worked on that helps pilots. Fly more safely. When was the foundation created has been around for a long time. Yeah. So there was the air safety foundation on that. Most people are familiar with from. Some years ago. It started out in nineteen fifty and they were really focused on proactively helping pilots. Fly more safely and really as a way to to help. Protect our freedom to fly. And you know, of course, if we're not flying safely that can certainly limit our advocacy efforts and really does affect people's interest in generally Asian or even learning to fly themselves or their family members perceptions of the safety of aviation. I'm so. Yeah. Better on for a very long time. And then over the years, we realized that they were other challenges that a PA needed to help face. And as I mentioned earlier with dues not being able to cover all of that work on the generous donors that have been funding the air safety foundation for years expressed an interest in being able to support some of those efforts to grow the pilot population, for example. And so over time we were able to create the APA foundation to cover things beyond just the safety work. Oh, interesting. Okay. So I know my dues have been going up a little bit. But they're they're still awfully awfully reasonable. And I guess what? I'm hearing is that one way that the organization can achieve all the things that it wants to achieve but keep the membership dues at a, you know, reasonable level is to create this entity this foundation that can tap into other kinds of their kinds of financial resources to accomplish all these programs is that a is that the way to look at it. Yes, definitely are generous donors to the foundation. They really are making the work happen and without them. It would be very difficult to pull all of this off. So let's talk this a little bit about some of the foundation programs are AO PA listeners will probably be familiar with most of these, but others may not. So maybe just kind of talk a little bit about the different programs that the foundation. Is engaged in. Sure. So when I mentioned earlier building, not stronger, safer pilot community, the stronger aspect it relates to growing the pilot population getting and keeping more pilots flying. And that engaged pilot group is really critical for advocacy efforts. There's also that idea of you know, what might be in it for us the larger constituency for advocacy, but also the larger group we are a product development standpoint, so businesses I will be more successful more likely to invest in product development for us, and hopefully pricing will be more reasonable as a result. So under the you can fly program. There's four main initiatives the high school initiative helps inspire students to consider aviation careers. And even if they don't go the career route having that positive interaction with generally nation as part of that curriculum is really helpful for us. Then from there. We have a flight training initiative that is working to. Juice. These student pilot dropout rate by improving the flight training experience. And so we support students and flight instructors and flight schools to help make that happen. A third initiative is flying clubs one of the things that we learned from research back in twenty ten about the optimal flight training experience. Is that a sense of community can really help with addressing some of the factors that, you know, time and cost issues that people thought were really the main reasons sense of community can really be something that helps people stay engaged and flying clubs also address the affordability factor of continuing to fly staying engaged. And so we looked at supporting flying clubs, and it's been really successful for us so far not just in helping new clubs get started. But also supporting existing clubs and then fourth and finally is the rusty pilots program. So we knew that one of the great ways that we could really affects the number of pilots flying. Actively is to help people who had already put the time and effort into getting. Certificates and help them get back into flying. If somehow they had lapsed, so if life had gotten in the way of their flying most people that you talk to if that's the case, they still consider themselves a pilot. They still think they're going to get back into flying someday soon and our rusty pilots program will help make that easier on them each of those programs. Hundreds own sounds like a significant effort do have you must have a director or someone that is responsible for each of those programs, and then reports to you or are you managing the, you know, the whole thing directly yourself, so we have an executive director of the you can fly program and her name is Elizabeth Tennyson. And then she has folks that manage each of those initiatives under her. So the foundation side were really raising the resources to help fund that work. But because our donors are funding that work as the foundation, we of course, want to be engaged and involved because we want to report back to them on the successes and of. Give the feedback of our donors to those programs on it's really neat. How it evolves? It's it's not just a funding relationship. It's also donors getting excited about the work that we're doing an encouraging people that they know other. It's a local high school to use our curriculum or one of the flying clubs that they know to use our resources, or, you know, having a friend of theirs. It's lapsed in their flying. There are no longer active to go to one of our rusty pilots seminars. I've always been kind of intrigued with the the curriculum the high school curriculum that is being developed in. I guess that do I recall correctly. That's just sort of rolled out recently. We've been working really hard on it. So right now, we have ninth and tenth grade curriculum out and being used across the country and more than one hundred classrooms. Our working on the eleventh grade curriculum now, we'll start working on the twelfth grade curriculum next year, the idea being that when we first roll out each year of the curriculum. It'll be an field test cycle for that. At school year with a smaller group of schools that have really signed up to provide more feedback and be more engaged in that field test cycle. So that we are refining the curriculum before releasing it out to more schools the following school year in what kind of schools participate in this. I mean, do do they come to you? Do you go to them? How does the relationship get developed a so far we haven't really had to advertise? We've had so many schools coming to us and again because we're rolling this out in a way that is really focused on quality over quantity. It's been a terrific experience. So far working with these schools that they already have that level of interest there as far as the types of schools. It really varies we've got private schools public schools charter schools, and they are in rural areas urban areas, it's really across the board. And we're very excited that for the twenty nineteen and twenty twenty school year. We already have more than two hundred and fifty schools. Who have submitted the application and are working to the process of of using the curriculum in their classrooms for next school year. I think this is big I think this is really really big. Imax t it makes me think of the sixteen year old you just flying with today. I don't think there's actually ever been a more exciting time to be involved in aviation. I just think there are tremendous opportunities throughout aviation for people to get jobs if they're interested in it. And we just have so much interesting new technology that's being developed if I think back to the eighties and the nineties boy things kind of moved on glacial timescale. But it's it's pretty exciting times. Now, so I can see why folks would like to become involved. Yeah. That that was kind of a the one aspect of retiring that was least appealing to me because of the the rate of change and all the different things that are going on like you say the different technologies that are they're coming on. It's you know, to step back from that kind of this kind of hard because you know, being in the fray is pretty exciting. These days for sure. But Jennifer, you've you've mentioned the donors a couple of times. So who are these people are they individuals are they organizations or corporations who are these donors? So our donors who are incredibly generous to our programs. It really is a mix we've got mostly individuals. And I think a lot of that has to do with. It's folks like us who feel like flying has been a huge part of their lives, and, you know, big part of their success in many ways that really want to give back and make sure that that opportunity exists for others on and then we also have foundations who they have interest in stem education. And so they want to fund our high school program because they're seeing the results that were getting in the quality of the content that we're providing to teachers and details of experiences that students are having on. And then of course, we have corporations. So that's more along the lines of companies who are looking at it and saying there's been a declining pilot population for many. A years, and if that's their customer base, there's definitely an interest in funding the work that were already doing and having good success with rather than trying to create something of their own to try and address the problem. I know I made a contribution to the foundation in twenty seventeen. And I wasn't sure what year it was for. Sure. Until I. I realized that I had a really easy way to find out which is to look at the lid of my laptop and take a look at the AARP foundation sticker that's on there, which has twenty seventeen. So I think that there was I don't know there was some some kind of an appeal some some kind of an imperative that caused me to contribute myself. But these kinds of imperatives I mean, they continue today. Don't they they do. So the most exciting one that we're offering at this time is a matching grant opportunity. So the Ray foundation who's been very generous to the you can fly program over the years. Challenged us to raise two million dollars to support the you can fly program by August thirty first of this year. And if we're able to do that they're going to offer us a matching grant dollar for dollar free to those donations. So as a contributor if you give one hundred dollars to the you can fi program, they're going to match it and that'll become two hundred dollars. For the you can fly program. So if we raise two million from our generous donors, we'll have four million dollars to support the program for the coming years. Wow. That's a pretty significant multiplayer in. It sounds like something that everybody can help contribute towards right? Not this rely on large donors. It sounds like donations from individuals as well. Very important. I absolutely we have so many individuals who've given so generously to the you can fly program when we look at the you can fly challenge results from last year and twenty eighteen we had more than thirty eight hundred supporters. So those are folks that gave any dollar amount whatsoever. And, you know, whether it's ten dollars or ten thousand dollars, whatever it might be. It does all add up and every contribution truly does count. And of course, ALPA has a website, they opiate dot org. But the the foundation also has an easy to remember website. I think it's a. Oh, PA foundation dot org, isn't it insurance? And if anyone is interested in contributing to the you can fly challenge for this year to get that match and have double the impact for the contribution. It's foundation dot org forward slash challenge. And it's important to use that for its last challenge because it takes you to a form where it restricts your gift to the you can fly program to make sure that it will be matched by the foundation. Okay. I'm in. I'm in terrific. Thanks for your support. Sure. Sure. I'll give my my standard statement with you know, AO PA courses, the aircraft owners and Pilots Association, but you don't have to be an aircraft owner because I'm not, and you don't have to be an aircraft pilot because I'm not, but you can still still join to support the the cause as it were. But this is a big year for a oh PA. This is the eightieth anniversary year. That's true are. Very excited. And I guess the the big celebration event is at the upcoming regional and Frederick Maryland. That's coming up really quick though may tenth and eleven and we're really excited for eightieth anniversary to host our members and other aviation enthusiast here in Frederick gonna be offered another event, unfortunately and committed myself, otherwise I would. Take the trip down to the Frederick for that. Because I think it's going to be a really really exciting weekend. I it is it's a weekend event. Right. That insurance next Friday and Saturday, and there is free seminars. And then there's also workshops that are more in depth where there's a fee for all the workshops, and then you can choose which ones that you'd like to go to and then Friday evening. There's a really fun flight line cookout planned, I will be lots of activities, and we're actually going to have a fly over from the d day squadron and night drone air show on the really exciting. We miss the drone air show the night drone airshow at the Senate. I might have to just drive down Friday night. We'd love to have you. I'll cover it for that other show. But I and for all of those who are listeners to are. You av digest show. You don't have to be a pilot, and you don't have to be in a owner of an airplane. But if you own a drone. And you get one you can be a member of AO p-, and I recommend that highly. That's right. They have a a membership category for for drone pilots, which was I think at a highly intelligent thing to do we had cat on on the digest kind of a while ago. But how you doing Jennifer, you know, she's doing really, well, I'm she is really a tremendous asset for the organization. I'm C really want someone leading that area who walks the walk and really can represent that group within the organization when we're thinking about how can we best serve them? And especially when we're looking at it from the MandA pilots i-is. How can we make sure that we're safely integrating drones into the air space? It's been interesting to watch. How men you know, pilots of me and aircraft have have viewed drones. And I think that there was certainly. A lot of initial. Well, it's going to say skepticism, but maybe fears even a more accurate accurate term. But as awareness has has grown. I think that even though we've seen we still have problems, especially around airports. But I think as awareness has grown the pilot population has come to more of an understanding of drones and what they're all about. And I think as we talked about with cat drone flying can be a gateway demand aviation, and certainly we see it going other direction as well. Max tea, or are you still alive? He's still flying drones occasionally, you know, I still own a number of drones, but most of my flying with the RC planes, you why they're they're harder to fly. So that's makes it more challenging. Drugs are so automated these days that controls softwares just makes it kind of magical. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Are you going to be at the the regional and Frederick Maryland. I will be I'm looking forward to being there. And I'll be giving a presentation. So she'll be fun to get back. Can you say what your presentation is going to be? Of course, it's my three hour advanced iof are some Manar. I think it's going to be on Saturday. Wow. Three hours. Okay. I have another reason to go to Frederick. I know you're interested in I iof are David, but I would start with the basic course before we get to the advanced one. Well, I don't but it it's two hours away. I have no I'm teasing. Of course. It's going to be fun to see you are you are you gonna if David comes will you give them a break or have to sit there for three hours. Actually, I think he just dropped out. So I don't know what you to conspired about. But okay. No. I asked about a break in a three hour program before. And after this is for hardy pilots, Cardi pilots. Okay. Jennifer. Let's talk about flying. You've been a pilot for quite some time. I understand. Yeah. I sure have have wanted to be a pilot since I was a little girl. And I finally had the opportunity even though I started training in suburban Detroit where I'm from. I couldn't really afford to get my private pilot certificate until I went to college and could you student loans to help fund that flying? So into the university of North Dakota, which I think is a terrific program. I'm so glad that I went to school there. I think it's an incredible value. And I'm on the alumni advisory board there now 'cause I'm still a big believer in the work that they continue to do a as the industry changes. Did you have other eight? Eight in your family that kind of sparked your interest or was there something else? No. I didn't. I'm an in fact, my parents were quite skeptical of the idea my mother thinks flying is dangerous. And so that might be part of the aspect of safety, and my career is the flight training and flight safety side may have come from, you know, wanting to make sure that people felt comfortable in airplanes. And that they realize it's an incredible experience for the pilots, and as well as a real economic driver for communities, but yeah, I definitely it's all I ever wanted to do. I didn't have any other grand ideas. I'm so I'm really thankful that I discovered flight training and flight safety as career options acci realized about halfway through my undergraduate degree that go into the airline's probably wasn't going to be the best fit for me back at that time. The compensation wasn't what it is today. It's really a terrific opportunity for those coming out. Of their training. Now, I'm to be able to make a living wage really as a pilot now. And while I didn't have that opportunity. I'm really thankful for those these days that do the Jennifer I noticed that you've been a flight instructor. I guess in the past. Are you doing that now or is that something from here earlier days at gosh? I loved flight instructing. I wish I had time to be doing it now. But again that focus on the foundations goals, I won't allow me to be instructing at the moment. What is it about flight instructing that was so appealing to you? I think when you love flying yourself, and you get to share that with someone else when people talk about teaching in general, and they talk about seeing their students lightbulb moments. It takes it to a whole 'nother level when you're sitting in an airplane with them, and the idea of helping someone go from being a pedestrian to a pilot is pretty incredible. And I just had some terrific students. I'm some you know, who are flying in the industry. And so we were in other parts of the aviation industry that I mean, they definitely helped make it such a positive. Experience. But I think just helping anyone see something that maybe they thought would be complex or would be difficult and showing them that they can break down, and they can accomplish it is it's not just about the knowledge. It's about the confidence that you gain in becoming a pilot. And when you think about doing something difficult, you can sit there and tell yourself. Well, gosh, I'm a pilot. I can probably figure this out. I learned how to fly an airplane. I can probably do this. And when you're an instructor Zach and teach people to fly airplanes, I can probably teach them to do some of these things. So it's definitely it was certainly a confidence builder for me as I was growing up, and it was a really incredible opportunity. So you want others to have that same opportunity cure in like it's got to be so gratifying to to introduce flying to someone else and to develop them into a pilot. That's gotta be no great feeling of accomplishment. That definitely has max mentioned soloing a sixteen year old student today and his mom being there. And yeah, there is nothing like your first solo. At the airport, and then you're so low cross country, and and those experiences, I'm certainly memorable. But it's definitely gratifying to help. Someone have that experience and be a part of it as a flight instructor. And while I couldn't make a living doing it at that time in the industry. And I was fortunate to have the opportunity to work in other aspects of flight training and flight safety. Thanks to it really is something that it's a dream that I have really as retirement that when I get to that point. I would love to have an airplane and provide flight instruction free of charge instead of offering scholarship dollars. I'll provide scholarship flight training wonderful so working for a oh PA. It's kind of like living, the dream, isn't it it really is. I mean when I first started working here. I had to pinch myself when you pull up to the building you think gosh, I work here. These people hired me, and it was really fortunate straight out of graduate school to be hired by Bruce Landsberg a to work at the. Safety foundation to write continuing education courses, for pilots, the online courses in person seminars the print publications. I mean, not only was it really neat to be at a working with these people who are just so smart in so experienced, and so dedicated, but you also felt like you were really helping by creating that continuing education that was free for pilots, and they didn't even have to be a okay members. It was just something that you air safety foundation at the time. Now, the safety institute was charged with that mission. And we're definitely proud to be doing that work. That's wonderful stuff. Have you been flying? Anything particularly noteworthy or interesting lately. Yes, I am. So fortunate to be back here at AO PA because I have a number of colleagues and friends who own airplanes and APA is based right on Frederick municipal airport. So we can actually walk right outside across the street to the ramp that AARP has on the airport. And we have a number of aircraft that we used for flight training, and you know, g travel as part of walking the walk of being a generally vision association. And so it's really an easy way to stay current. Although a lot of us do get focused on our mission with our jobs some big goals with the oak foundation this year. And so I always have to stay focused on that. But we try to get out and fly as much as we can been really fortunate lately that had a chance to fly air Cam for the first time. Yeah, what an incredible airplane. It. Is it gets up and down so quickly? I was telling someone else about the flight. And they said, yeah, I heard it's like an elevator. And I thought what a great metaphor for that claim. I saw the year Kim at sun and fun in the kind of did a double take. I it was aware of air Kim's. But this was the first time I'd seen one when they had on display was on floats. So boy that makes it airplay. Book a lot a lot larger in imposing than than others. But maybe maybe described the air Cam for for people listening who may not be familiar with it. Sure. It's an experimental aircraft. It's amateur built. And it has two engines are row tax engines that are mounted on the top and they're exposed and it's an open cockpit. You can get a full enclosure. But the one I was was an open cockpit. And I to me that was part of the the real air Cam experience, and we were on floats. And so we landed on a lake lake twice in another lake once, and it was just that performance is really incredible. And I was flying with very good friend. I'm so it was a all around terrific experience. Wow. That's fantastic. I you know, I is I saw that the air Cam the thought kinda ran through my head this wind in your face kind of flying open cockpit flying is I don't know it just feels really pure and because I've never even been in. In a biplane in an open cockpit biplane before so, but just the idea seems kind of appealing. So how did it handle relative to other airplanes? This is a high wing got those those two Motors two engines as you said I like to to engines being an engine guy I like to inches. Yeah. Absolutely. The redundancy is helpful. So it's a very responsive aircraft and for those who haven't seen it or or flown it. It's a it's a stick. It's not a yoke. And so that's somewhat of an adjustment for folks who haven't done that before. But the ability to to take off in less than one hundred feet and land in less than five hundred. I mean, that's as advertised, and I felt like it was less than not it really is a incredible performance. And it's just so fun to fly. And I think a large part of it is that open cockpit. But the performance is terrific in. It's a real fly low and slow kind of a design, isn't it? Yeah. So that's how they advertise. It is low and slow, but it. It doesn't feel that slow in your flying in it because you have the relative motion of the things around you at that height. And so you've got the trees just off your shoulder. And so I think it seems like you're going faster than you are. But just the ability to land on a lake and see the wildlife around you. It's a totally different experience in this was at sun fun. Right. It was do they have a seaplane base where where was this from with the with the lake I didn't know that. There was water that well, I guess Florida part of Seattle. No, florida. Very well. But I imagine that part of Florida's got lots of water lots of lakes. Yeah. There are quite a few lakes around there. We went out of bardo on. So it's not that far from sun and fine where this particular airplane hangar d-, but most people will think about going to air Cam at see bring Florida where they have the factory and they can do a demo when a tour so it's not that far away. Maybe next year when I go to sun and fun. Oh, if an opportunity to I don't know. I'm not a pilot. But. While I'm intrigued by the open cockpit idea. I'm also a little bit afraid. There's nothing to be afraid of but fear is normal and with any kind of flying. If you feel a little bit of fear. That's all right. It's just how we manage it. Well, that's a good point. I mean, I it's like, oh, I don't know respecting dangerous power tools things like that when you become complacent, and it just seems routine. That's that's when it becomes dangerous. So I imagine it's the same with flying. I think so and being conscious of the risks are is a good thing. So I don't think we want to be reckless or act as if there is no fear whatsoever. There is something to that self preservation that exists in the human brain. Are there any airplanes out there that you haven't flown that you would just love to a Lear jet? Just the speed have you flown gyp before I have flown a jet right seat. But I've not flown a Lear jet, and that would be incredibly fun that I think so too. Yeah. Well, just to sort of wrap things up and make sure that everyone is clear on everything it just wanted to sort of review, the, you know, the organization in the foundation, and all and make sure that I have it. Right. Make sure everybody understands and I think one of the key aspects of AO PA that we talked about was that AO PA itself is a is a membership organization. That's supported by do's. And the ALPA foundation is not supported by deuce, but it supported by funds from from donors. So that's cracked a k is funded by membership dues and that supports all the advocacy work done. So well by our terrific government affairs team the publications and the. Outreach in the events as well as the pilot information center and membership services. Whereas the ALPA foundation is funded by generous donations from our supporters, and that work that we can fund because of those donations is the APA air safety institute, and the you can fly program and the way to think about that work is that dues can't possibly fund all of that. It had to be done with the support of generous donors, and it really is ambitious work in with you can fly program, we are really trying to get and keep more pilots flying. And that comes down to not just the life changing experience that it is for those individuals. But the more pilots that we have actively engaged the stronger, we are as a constituency, and that's really helpful for our advocacy efforts and on the safety side with the safety institute for not flying safely. We know how it gets covered in the media. We. We know how that affects people's perceptions of general aviation, and so it's really important that the safer that we are again, the the more effective that we can be for advocacy purposes and protecting our freedom to fly. Can you give us some examples of the kinds of things at the air safety institute does not to achieve those objectives? So the APA air safety institute, they do research education and outreach to see if we can get closer to having zero accidents. And and we definitely have a low accident rate and spent a lot of efforts that have led to that. But I think that we're always striving for zero and it's really important that the loss of life alone is a tragedy. But again that they affect that. It has on the perception of aviation general is challenge. And so they do a lot of work. I'm on the education side. And that's where I started with a PA as we discussed on helping pilots think about flying a little bit differently. So. Maybe by seeing something that the air safety institute produced they're going to think about a flight differently. They're going to ask themselves a question in a way that they hadn't before. And we have had people come up to us out of vents and say I made a different choice about a flight because of a program that I saw with air safety institute. That's powerful. That's good. Yeah. It really is. It's it's I mean talk about rewarding. They're really always looking to improve Richard McFadden who leads the safety institute as executive director has really done a terrific job in thinking about what is it that the viewers want, and what's most helpful to pilot? So they've gradually shifted to shorter format content. They have a lot of videos and podcasts and really made a huge difference in actively when they started posting things to YouTube, and you know, it's just there's so much viewership out there on YouTube that just by going to where the viewers are it makes a big difference in how much we're seeing those resources being utilized as for the. You can fly than this you Tibbs. That's Katie tripled heads that up. So that you can fly program does have the four initiatives the high school initiative flight training flying clubs and rusty pilots. And that really got kicked off when Mark Baker came to a oh PA and recognized that if we didn't start addressing the declining pilot population in a more holistic way, it was really going to be tough to turn the numbers around if such dramatic numbers drop from the eighties to the two thousands and the number of certificates issued was restart and so Mark got our board of trustees on board. He found some really incredible angel investors to help us kick off the work because we had started the flight training initiative years ago, and that was something I had worked on and when we launched that everybody was excited, and we thought this is the right thing to do. But we didn't really have the funding to make it happen. And so with Mark. Acre having the leadership and the dedication to commit to it. And then Katie principal, the senior vice president of aviation programs and operations really ran with that charter and made sure that the you can fly initiatives got off the ground and start getting some really great results, and while Katie has transitioned to a different role with a PA Elizabeth Tennyson is now the executive director of the you can fly program Katie is still working with us. And we're really grateful to still have her on the team. But Elizabeth Tennyson is really looking at how do we scale this work now? And that's part of where the foundation comes in because we fund all of the operations of the you can fly program. And so when we think about the success of the programs that we have today, we have more interest developing for the high school initiative, for example, we have more and more schools contacting us wanting to implement the curriculum at their school, but we do have requirements for them to be. Professional development. So that we can make sure that the program is being delivered effectively. And so we need to be providing support for that work. And so the scaling of that is really where those resources come in. And again, if not for our generous donors, the program wouldn't exist in the first place, but to see that we're scaling into more and more schools. I mean coming up to two hundred and fifty schools across the country for the twenty nineteen twenty twenty school year. We really do depend on those resources to make it happen. And it does make sense to me that you'd want to vet the high schools to a certain degree. I mean, you don't want to just accept anybody. That may not be fully dedicated to it or may have other aspects that put the success of that program at that high school at risk have have the high school so far stood up to the task at hand of the been doing their part to make it successful. You're absolutely right. We do have to keep a focus on quality. And that is first and foremost. Most quantity is nice, but quality has to come first with this work because it's something that as you implement in more and more schools, it gets harder to control something like that. But we don't wanna make it too hard on the schools. They have enough challenges as it is. If you think about your local school system on their hungry for this type of resource with the curriculum. That's so turn key because they do want a, you know, experiences for students that that science technology, engineering and math or stem. You know, it's such a helpful program to implement if they're trying to meet that need. And now that there are more career opportunities in aviation, not just for pilots, but many areas of aviation. They're seeing us as a pretty life changing opportunity for some of these students who otherwise may not have that chance to to really change their economic circumstances with a career like this. And so with when it comes to the high schools were really only asking them to make the commitment to. To do professional development and not something that we provide as well as to submit data to us. So we want to know as the square goes on how many students do you have signed up how many completed so really the only thing that we are really keen on is give us the data because that's what we need to be able to track and report not just to our supporters. But when we're looking at the success of the program long-term and the instructors the teachers delivering the instruction to the students. Are are these folks that have some kind of aviation background to help them? Or is the curriculum itself designed in a way that that's not necessary. So we have designed the curriculum that the instructor does not have to have aviation experience because it's not common that schoolteacher would have it. And so we wanted it to be able to scale quite a bit. And so that was a definitely a requirement. We do have some instructors who are pilots, and maybe they don't have as much classroom teaching. Experience or some classroom. Teachers who don't have flight training experience. They're not pilots. And so we adapt based on whatever it is that they need, and that's really one of the key things of the professional development that we provide is is making sure that they feel comfortable with whatever experience. They may be lacking. This is just also amazing to me that they OPA can create and deliver these kinds of programs these kinds of initiatives of this quality level. I it's just it's just amazing. You know, everybody ALPA should be feeling really good about the things that they're accomplishing on behalf of a lot of other people. We are incredibly proud to be doing this work. And really what it took as a commitment. And when you think about some of the things that we're doing and the expense and effort that it does take to make them happen. It probably wouldn't make sense for four profit organization to pursue this. It had to be something that you know, like a said this is. Portent we're going to find a way to make it happen. And again, we're just so fortunate to have generous supporters who will fund the work because they believe it's it's making a difference. Okay. And as we've said, the ALPA foundation, you can fly challenge is Hon. Now, there's a two million dollar gold by when is the deadline, August thirty first that's correct there as a matching grant opportunity, and it's two million dollars at stake. So for donations we raised support the you can fly program by August, thirty first they will be matched dollar for dollar up to two million dollars for a potential total of four million dollars for the you can fly program, which goes a long way in supporting this work, and scaling it out across the country. So that is available at APA foundation dot org forward slash challenge. And it's important to us that donation form rather than the APA foundations standard form because that will restrict your donation to you can fly. Program which makes it eligible for that matching grant from the foundation. Very good. Jennifer storm vice president AO PA foundation. Are you having fun, Jennifer? I think you are. Oh, absolutely. And I think that was one of the main takeaways from the conversation that we had at sun and fun is that this is really incredible work to be a part of it making sure that it can happen from resources side at and then being involved with the folks that are actually executing these programs. It's really incredible good. All right. Thanks again. Jennifer. Thank you so much. What's up with the geeks? Let's see who's got something. Interesting going on max trescott. You've always got something. Interesting going on. Oh, boy, I've got number of seminars coming up. Let's see I'm doing I have a brand new seminar called so you want to fly or by a Cirrus I came up with that title because I remember years ago the government used to have a booklet called. So you want to buy a wild, bro or something like that? I think the bureau of land management had a publication the subtitle like that. But anyway, I gave the seminar for the first time at the sudden fund couple of weeks ago, and I will be giving it a live here in the Silicon Valley area on may eighth and may fifteenth so anybody in northern California who wants to come at. It's going to be in Palo Alto on may the eighth at seven thirty and on may the fifteenth at seven thirty in San Carlos both of those are the west valley flying club. And if he can't make it, but it is something of interest to to send me an Email, and we'll figure out how to get some information into your hands. And then I should also mention that episode one oh six of the aviation. News talk podcast is available in that is another one of our safety moments with rob Mark. So we've done these before and probably continue them in the future. And this particular one we focused on via far into IMC accidents of which there have been a number recently. So we talked about the accidents how devoid getting into them. And what to do if you find? From the clouds accidentally. So all that on the aviation news talk about cast, rob keeps showing up behind the mic, doesn't he? He loves it. Tell anybody, but he loves it. He does love it. We had a great time with him at sun and fun behind the mic when we had our airplane. Geeks live episode that was a lot of fun. I'm always surprised that he's not an amateur radio operator because he's a real big hand yet. Yeah. Yeah. David anything to tell us about now. Just happy to be podcasting twice a week and talking about drones and talking about airplanes. And you know, it Maxon I next week get years older. So we've been doing this now for a long time. That's right. And while I could also say this next week will be the anniversary. It'll be four years now since by major surgery, and I will never forget. And always appreciate all of the love affection. Good thoughts and emails and everything I got when I was going through that from all of our listeners. So thank you for that. And it's been four years. So that's a good thing. Oh, that was a tough time in boy, it it doesn't seem like it was four years ago. That's amazing recipe. It doesn't. Yeah. All right. Let's see. What do I got going on? I've got I've got a trip to Seattle coming up. That's in in early may. And I have hopes to tour the Viking air facility been talking about that for a long time and also touring around some some of the other aviation companies in the Seattle area. Of course, I'll meet up with Isaac in. We'll we'll have some fun together doing some of those things and and then I'll. Do some of those on my own. So I'm really looking forward to that as the Viking air trip at Seattle area. And then we have the d day squadron coming up and just got a release from the d day squadron today, they nounce the kickoff for the North Atlantic crossing. And so says the d day squadron as part of the Tunis and foundation announced the starting point for the squadron's journey to Europe over the original blue spruce root to commemorate the seventy fifth anniversary of the invasion of Normandy aircraft will depart from Waterbury. Oxford airport in Oxford, Connecticut, this down the road from me on may nineteenth twenty nineteen but the planes will be there a full week before that they've got some activities to kick off the event including there. They're Hoeffel a special squadron flyover of the statue of liberty that would be fairly dramatic. So the the the c forty seven's arrive in Oxford on may twelfth twenty nineteen then the aircraft and crews will spend that week practicing says critical skills such as formation flying survival skills training oceanic procedures and European Union operations training and then on the on Saturday, the fourteenth the entire day squadron was gonna have that flying formation from Oxford up the Hudson river in New York over Manhattan island and around the statue of liberty. So if you're in the New York City area on the fourteenth of may, you're going to want to watch for that. And then again, the the squadron will depart on. May nineteenth makes them stops along the way. Arrive at Duxford airfield, then they'll join up with their European counterparts. Dax over Normandy. And they're going to participate in several events on June second through fifth, the combined fleet of historic aircraft will cross the English channel on June fifth fly over Normandy France in participate in multiple vents over in France from June fifth through ninth so lots of activity on the side of the Atlantic. The other side of the Atlantic. I know there's some interest in kind of getting together while the DJ squadron is over at Waterbury Duxford airport in Connecticut. So touch base if you haven't already some folks in the slack team had been talking about it, otherwise semi Email max flight at airplane. Geeks dot com if you'd like to sort of try to get coordinated with something. For for that. I'm looking forward to that. David a bunch of c forty seven saw leaving the the airport. I'm going to I'm going to be right there. Okay. Rub. It in. But I'm sensing a missed opportunity here. I have you checked with them to see if they have an official podcast associated with the North Atlantic crossing because I'm thinking you probably ought to be on board to record this event. Well, I have applied for media credentials. He and there is the opportunity for some some media flights dot across the Atlantic. But around around Connecticut, so I just might be able to do that. We'll see hopefully, hopefully, we'll be able to do that. That'd be a so way if you need to if you've never been in see forty-seven, it's it's an amazing flight. Yeah. Yeah. So have you been one David? Yes. Actually, I was in an r four d actually mid Atlantic. Air museum has a navy are for day and back in the early nineties when I was tooling. Around with the museum I flew from reading Pennsylvania down to Philadelphia down to Andrews Air Force base for the air show weekend. There see are for day. It was a transport an executive transport. So it had an airliner interior. So it was kind of it was kind of like flying on a C forty-seven getting a DC three experience. Also, so no, no sides. So I haven't been in fischel cargo carrying parachute jumping aircraft. But it's on the bucket list. I'm sure I'll get one eventually. All right. Very good. I just shout out to equator aircraft. You may recall back in episode four hundred seventy three we spoke with the CEO of equator aircraft. Thomas wrote, a Skift, and they're developing the p two excursion it say, they call it a high-performance hybrid. Amphibious aircraft. Well, they've they've had their first flight they call it the first flight out of ground effect. And in fact, they had I think two two flights. Just recently the twenty ninth of March and second flight on the thirtieth of March and for these flights at they're all electric in again, this is an amphibious aircraft. Max, it's it's kind of a nice design. I mean, it looks this look sleek and like it would take to water like a duck. And it does have kind of a classic designed for Infineon's. You know, it's got a prop which is mounted high in this case mounted on the tail and the bottom of the aircraft serves as a hall when it's on the water. So yeah, it does looks like a fun play. And this is a two seater at this point the P to there's a. A clue from the designation. I guess they do plan to hopefully develop larger aircraft in the future. Maybe even a commuter sized plane, so good good luck. Two week waiter aircraft with that. And congratulations on the first flight. I I won't make the standard extension cord joke. Okay. All right. Some I'm listener mail. Let's see. Well, we heard from Mike and Stefan the Strasser brothers. These are the the chicken wings, aviation comics guys that we talked about we had on the show, actually and also generously provided some some autograph books. Some chicken wings books that we gave away a drawing. Well, you may recall that when we talked with them and asked about what might be in the future. They mentioned the possibility of animation in they have. In fact, just finished their first animated cartoon, and it's up last. We'll we'll put a link to it in the show notes. And yet you also find it on YouTube, but take a look at this. It's a nice little story. And you know, the the animation is it's all smooth. It's you know, it's like a professional kind of, you know, animated cartoon congratulations to the guys on that. You know, I love good animation who's going to I guess it would be fun to figure out how to actually do this. I have no idea. How that created it? Yeah. I don't know. The is it the way that they used to do cartoons. Like this you frame by frame and. Flip through them quickly. And it looks like it's is it's all smooth. I dunno. Another interesting thing are fun thing about it is unlike the, you know, the static comics that that were used to from chicken wings. There are voices these characters, and it's kind of fun to listen to the voices that they've used. And of course, the best part clues a tanker in it. Yes. There is a tanker. David. I don't know if you've seen this cartoon it is about a tanker. So you gotta try I, of course, it's about a tanker. All right. So yeah. Congratulations to the guys. And I think that's it. We have anything else. Avengers is out this weekend coming up. That's right. It'll probably be mobbed. Maybe I'll wait a week. All right, then so we wanna thank you all for listening to the airplane. Geeks podcast. We also want to thank our guest. Jennifer storm vice president AO PA foundation. And we really appreciate her taking the time. She's very very busy as you can imagine. And we encourage you to take a look at the AARP foundation. And if you have the means to do so consider contributing as always you can find us on our website at airplane. Geeks dot com show notes for this episode at airplane. Geeks dot com slash five five zero. Let's tell folks where they can find us online, and let's see who's up. I max trescott up. I where do we find you? Online. Will you can find me up there? Soloing students at the Palo Alto here port, which is always fun but online you can find me at aviation news, talk dot com. If you click on contact at the top of the page, you can shoot me an Email about anything you'd like. And if you click on listener questions you can record a question, which I will with unlikely answer on the aviation news talk about cast, which is available wherever you find podcasts. Go David Vanderhoek, where do we find you? Well, first of all, I gotta give by solicitation for being on the slack listener team. You can get an invitation to join the fun behind closed doors with the secret mystery password that we give you, and that's you. You can send us an Email to FIBA ho. Say an Email to the geeks at airplanes dot com or feedback at the digest dot com. Either way you'll get your invite you can find me on Twitter at DM Vanderhoek. You can also I wanted to give a shout out to anyone who recently or wants to leave some feedback. And this goes, also, Mr. trescott on whatever podcast device, you listen to either Google podcasts are apple podcasts or Stitcher, whatever to leave some feedback. So that other people can find us, we always want to grow and improve our listenership and and reach out more. So that's news talk, you know, as well as the geeks or the packets pike cast, but leave some feedback. So everybody knows where they're at last. But not least you can hear me talking about drones with Heather and max. On the UAB digest on Fridays. It just to maybe to mention to make it clear the the slack group that we created it really was set up to serve not only airplane geeks. But also, the UNLV digests and also the packs podcast. So if you're not familiar with slack. They're different channels, and you can subscribe to the to the different channels. So if you're interested in unmanned aviation, you can be part of the UNLV digest channel. And if you're not then you don't have to. But we have groups that are channels in there for events and meet ups things like spotting pictures as a as a new channel relatively new channel that we we set up people can post their photos there, we create channels, and then let them go is his things sort of ebben flow. I really have found that I spend more time in there than I do in other social media platforms where there's a lot of extraneous noise going on but sides there you can find me on linked in this look from x flight as David says at the u av digest dot com with Mary Kirby at pack sex podcast dot com, again, my emails max flight at airplane. Geeks dot com. Are out tro is by Bruno Massoni, you can find more of his compositions where he incorporates aviation. Sounds into other music at Bruno Massoni dot com. So please join us again next week as we talk aviation on the airplane geeks podcast by rybody, keep the blue side up. Thanks for listening.

Jennifer Boeing David Vanderhoek The New York Times vice president Jennifer storm Jennifer max Jets university of North Dakota APA ALPA Seattle director Twitter Cirrus Jimmy Doolittle AARP foundation Frederick Maryland instructor FAA
Ep. 70:  Bullying, Nearsightedness & Dodgy Dodgers

Talks With John Podcast

59:54 min | Last month

Ep. 70: Bullying, Nearsightedness & Dodgy Dodgers

"From mouthful media off John Lennon changed the world not just with his music, but with his words his thoughts his humor his hopes and dreams John had so much more to give but it's time with us was cut short. So one of John was here today. What would have been to the world of Music art office politics of Life join us and just imagined this is talks with John Smith. Well, what an interesting Halloween that one was it Halloween? I think I mean, you know, I had a couple of girlfriends off. Yes. Well, why are they going to go to the bar? I don't know the booze. Oh, I know. I'll stop. Oh dear. Well, it wasn't your normal. When did you dress up as anything? I just set up a no, I didn't bite I pass out candy cuz I've seen previous Halloween's where you've kind of, you know, you tell me that parties. I mean I yeah. Yeah, I'd always go for the old, you know rock and roll thing. I know but because that was easy for me and gave out candy once you have a tube a tube. Oh a slide. Yeah. No, I thought I had a gadget where it go down a rope really like a tray. Okay. So the Rope down to the sidewalk and like bungy cording or something. Well, yeah traversing whatever you call it and you built this song. It's not hard rope and the pulley. I know well that's cool. You should have patented it as an alternative to the tube. I've got a question for you. Oh, yeah, you know I watch the Telly. Yeah. I know. He's a very long time. What do you think the top Kennedy? I'll give you multiple choice. Oh the top can I'll give you my cat Okay Mouse song Snickers a Reeses Reeses. You have a Snickers really people that let me tell you something the Reese's she got quite upset. I'd ever be released Snickers one. Wow, that crazy. I'm really surprised. Well, I I like them all. They're all good. I really do like them but resist is so much advertising on T. That's really geared toward the younger set. Yes. Well, I think you know when you get down to sip is got its got The Amalgamated, you know call log. American everything right? It's got everything in it, right? It's got the, I don't know the nuts and the talk a little. Yeah. Okay. All right snickersville. Wow wage. I have a message for Reeses. Okay, I do I love Reese's Peanut Butter Cups cool set for a time. They were making them with dark chocolate and yeah can't find jobs. Oh you you can't find any more. I know and they were outrageous with their children degree. Yeah, I thought you were gonna complain know. Well, I'm complaining cuz I can't Brown dark chocolate. No. No, I'm not getting any more. Those were outrageously good. They're wonderful pets dark chocolate is actually considered good for you. Yeah, it has been a pleasure. Yeah, so you could eat more of them. So that means they should put them out. Yeah, they were they were quite different and and yeah, come on guys. Come on Races. Welcome. All Races. Yeah get us some dark chocolate. Let's get to that subject you were talking about birth. Oh gosh, come on. I know you got an opinion and your bit heartbroken over what you heard. Well, this this is an interesting story. It came out last week and it's a hockey stick. It involves the coyotes. Okay, and their top draft pick the Arizona Coyotes hockey team there an NHL team and their top pick this year was eighteen year old Mac Miller eighteen. He's eighteen. He is one heck of a player. Of course. He was their top draft pick you go. Okay. I mean this guy could he's at the University of North Dakota. All right already playing of course at the University, but they want to draft him for the Arizona Coyotes and the years they're top pick they were severed ties with him. They renounced their top draft pick. Wait a minute. They they drafted him and then he dumped him. Yeah, they sever ties they basically withdrew the Dead. The draft because why well, they said they knew that way back when he was in seventh grade. All right about about thirteen years old. Yeah, right. Yeah 2016 row 13 right that he and a buddy right had bullying a kid at school. Oh I see and they knew that page and there's the he was a black handicapped child if I remember yes, and that's what they just found out which kind of adds more to the drama of it all if you will. Yeah, you know why pick on you know, go over while it down Rising? Okay him and his buddy and apparently they they had to go into like a juvenile court and it wasn't a criminal case. Oh my but they had to write a letter of apology. All right, which he did after they did. Yes. Yes they did and there's nothing else on this guy's record. No passion know the initial no dead. No, it was just some dumb thing that he did when he was fourteen years old and it has cost him a career a career. Oh my God the top off my God the top pic. He was the number one player in the country chosen. That's huge. Well, okay and look, I agree what he did was awful wage. Okay, I'll do that. It was terrible, but good Lord John if I asked you did you do anything bad as a kid? Hell I did. Uh, huh, you know, I took pictures, you know, I contorted anyone. I didn't like it. I made fun of people that I thought were crippled, you know, you can't even say crippled these days. No, no, but you know, we call them crippled back then when they they had to fix something, you know wasn't born informed correctly. And the real reason to be honest with you was he frightened me? Okay, so I attacked it. Yeah it away. You know where I could make some morbid sense of humor out of it for my own, you know release of how I felt about it, but you wouldn't do that today. You know what I was doing. You know, what I would do if I was a team, I would say you've got the job but I want you to make a statement make a statement against what you knew was wrong when you were younger stand up and tell kids off. Oh, don't do it. Own it. Yeah, don't do let's say look, we all make mistakes. I was thirteen once and what I did was wrong. Okay, but I can't take it back but I can certainly say I learned from it and and I wish that no one else, you know does what I did because it was just wrong to do and it would be wonderful if the team were to fly the young man absolute probably about eighteen years old himself now absolutely and his family in and try to make amends freedom to then treat him to the nines there in Arizona way that you can do and that would be beneficial make a statement. It would be beneficial to the public right and it would be a very nice thing for the family to maybe log. Maybe close the book on this to the kid who got hurt people are so damned afraid any more politically, correct if you will, but you cannot find me a girl. I swear if if we were to go out and find honest people. Yeah, you're not going to find one person out there. It didn't do something. They shouldn't ought to have done as a child. That's probably correct because we don't have a new but the Wallflowers doesn't want to admit it. All right. Well, but let's let's look back. Now. This is not the first what happened when Brett Kavanaugh song. Hello. Yeah. I know. He was a teenager. Yep. I know and what he did might have been a lot more offending. If you could prove it would be home and cook. Yeah. I mean it seemed pretty obvious. But but it is what it is, but John, how can we be held responsible and and Amy, what's the name who just got elected a Mekong? Thank you. Look at the river sheep go. Oh, I know because people are so afraid of being wrong whether it's ethnicity. Why is a political wise or whatever that'll go out? You know, like like like trying to make amends for slavery forget about it. We I just history. I just don't think it is any way fair that we are responsible for everything we've ever done wrong since the day we were born. Oh what you saying is be glad they're not after us back right? I know you get taken up. I have a dozen studies. There's a few in my back. I believe some people it was because it was because of my own thoughts and insecurities I never did but boy did I get it. Just anybody or whenever you know what I'm saying? Maybe talk to one of my friends about something gossiped. Okay gossiped job. Anybody jelly-roll know not to their face, but gosh, I think every single person on this Earth if they were called out, they'd have to admit at least once or something. So how how can we be responsible for everything else be something because I've known you well enough now that I know when you're growing up, You are kind of second-hand clothes. They weren't second-hand. My grandmother made all my clothes. Okay. All right because of money. All right and you thought oh, yeah, cuz I didn't have the store-bought clothes and you can tell didn't quote fit in know with the click. No, not at all. Okay. I was always outside the clips, but here's my question. If you had your way would you want those people those girls have never even to pay for the indecency in the you know, I'm asking. Oh, I dunno what you're asking an absolutely not not now, but now back then probably, you know, I I don't remember that. I was angry with them. I was more upset that I couldn't get those things. I wasn't sure I'm thinking when you're telling me this because it is it feels shameful. But what do you have to be ashamed about? Yeah, I mean I was I wasn't jealous of them. I just really wanted to have the things that would make me fit. Of course you cuz you know, we all want to fit in we absolutely do you know in some way we can say we don't want to but we do want to I would say I had to borrow, you know, I had to borrow me my step dad's coat. Oh dear, you know, there's two big. Well, of course it was too big fortunately the Edwardian style which medicines because the longer than they should have been right but it was awkward. I mean, oh yeah. Oh, yeah, I you know, I mean my grandma made well, she was a wonderful seamstress. She truly was she I mean her dog could have been sold in stores. She was that good and you know, she let me pick up the patterns and the materials. All right, but they still didn't look like the store box of course authors. Yeah, I get it. And and that would that was tough. Well, God bless her for trying. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I mean they're just they're just was not money at that point in time to go to the store and buy clothing, you know, there just wasn't so but the point is in a way in a way. You're bullied. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And did you want retribution? I don't I don't recall off again getting mad about it. I was more frustrated thinking gosh, how am I going to get those things? So I fit in because I it's almost like I accepted. Yeah, you guys are right. I I don't look right off. It was weird your feelings hurt my feelings as I did. I couldn't get the things to fit in I couldn't fit in but you know, it's interesting. I spoke to my last class reunion page. I spoke to a girl who I remember very well from back in the high school days, and she was very nasty to me. Very private not messy at the reunion now. No backpacking day in high school. She was very she was very nasty. Very nasty to most girls. I see and she came up to me and she said hi Tammy. How are you? All shortly? Yeah, and I'm like, hello. Wow, and I said Gee you've changed right? Cuz she really caught me off-guard sure and she said I think we've all gotten a little off and I said you've gotten a whole lot nicer which is what right and I told her I said you used to just give me what for verbally and, you know taught me and make fun of me and threatening me and a lot of other girls right? It's just that I did and I said you sure did you hear that? I did. Yeah, she wasn't aware know and and off she said well she said I am sorry. Yeah, she apologized it and she said I just so let me ask you how did it feel when she apologized. It was interesting. It was interesting because then we kind of cuz you know, I I Do by her apology. Yeah. Yeah, you did. Yeah, because my defenses went down right and we started talking and I learned what she's been doing and she's you know, she's had a successful career as a family she had children. She had a very nice life good. Yeah, very proper good life. She asked me and when I said my last name, she realized she's been listening me on the radio all this time cuz I have a different name than I had in high school and It was interesting these two virtual adversaries of forty. Some years are now talking to each other like two human beings, right and it was pretty cool off at the end of the night. It was you know by right? Yeah because I accepted her apology because the time was different back then you know, I mean, I'll say she's she's different race than I am. Right the time was different back then our understanding of each other was different back then surely and we were in high school for crying out loud. We were sixteen seventeen year old idiots. Well, so the question is should you be held accountable for an immature decision made in junior high or high school that could affect the rest of your life. I don't think so. It's quite the question. I don't think so because our level of understanding how the world Works wage. Our level of socialisation right it grows with us as young people. I got picked on to leave you the I got me ask my check on you because I'm a freak freak because of your music or well first of all, you know, as you know, because yourself, I wasn't being cited. Oh, yes me too. You know, I walked around, you know in a daze seen a bunch of psychedelic, you know swirling I did change a lot of people thought I was aloof. Yeah. Snotty. I was I just couldn't Dempsey. Well, you know, they realize that with me and about the second grade because my visual is about as yours. Yeah, 20 / 1400. Okay God Riot because he not know you just say strawberry color. I'm talking I don't even know bottle glasses be so once made me realize that I couldn't even see right because for years me too and then you'll one day she real job. And she's crying as oh my God John. I'm so sorry, you know one day my one of my teachers alerted my mom you go and off we went to the doctor and you know, he says what's that letter what letter what letter? Oh my God, and I walked out of there with coke bottle glasses to write, you know, they let me get the blue ones cuz it was my favorite color at the time, but that didn't make them nice because as long as as a child, you don't really Quest if you can see something from a foot away you think well, maybe that's what life is you have nothing to compare it to right or no one's going to say hey about that look, right you're functioning children are extremely adaptable and acceptable just deal with what is what is yeah, right and but I'll tell you when when I found out what that that meant, you know, and he was telling you know talking to my mom and doing all these tests with me and I I was like six and I remember that That when he told me I had to have glasses. I mean, you know, the red flags went in my head and my mom and he were talking I was supposed to go out and pick out a frame and title. I look around at ad and I left device. I walked out of that store on Pine Street in Long Beach and I decided I'm getting out of here. I'm going over to buff arms and the toy department down to where I was headed when my mom came cuz I thought I'm not having this is funny you go from Freak to Frack. Yeah, because you can't see you're already out of sauce. Yeah. Yeah, then they find out. Oh, she needs glasses the last bloody thing you want because now you're a four-eyed freak. Right, right. Oh my God, they call you for Rising. Oh God. Yeah all the heck. Yeah. Well she dragged me back, right? Of course. I'm crying and not going to have them. I don't need them done enough and she finally laid down the law. Yes, and I got to pick out the blue dog. And it's like but that's what you did a lot of Performing. Oh, yeah, a lot of singing. Yes, you will wear the blue glasses. I'm sure no home right as a veteran princess, you know where American well glasses know those had to be taken off right? And by that time I realized that I have them off. I can't see anything right now the realization of what the same as you know, yeah, I found out I hadn't been seeing things right and it changed what we were doing a really big deal with performance. Absolutely. And if you did a solo as I did you had to come out and go to the front Mike standard Us in position. Yep. Yep. Get up front on the song. I see it coming, but unfortunately, yeah, so I finished my solo everything's great and I'm going back to my location right but I had forgotten when I started going back to count the birth. And I went down the wrong row of kids, right cuz you couldn't see I couldn't see and they kind of passed me along until they got me where I needed to be. Of course, you know, I'm just a wreck right and we come off stage and the producer of the show comes I love you. Oh my gosh, it shook me like a ragdoll. You know what she did. Oh, she did. What a fool and when we got back we got on the bus. We got back home and my mother came to pick me up. She pretty much took my mom. He did she think that you were going out of your way to ruin the program. Come on no matter of these people, but she felt I should have been more responsible. How should be more responsible as an adult, I was a child. I was about seven and half at this point. That's ridiculous. He read my mom the riot act and my mom. Oh like Eros the show, right? Well, it probably looked pretty bad. How bad could come on? It's a child. I know I'm trying to get back in position, but it was a big deal show me that it was a big deal performance. I'm sorry to hear that and I understand so, you know, my mom was angry at me for not counting because she knew that's how I was matching making those moves. Right and I had simply I forgot to count when I started back. I just forgot. Well, she came down on me and I proclaimed that I will never perform again unless I get contact lenses. Oh God. And my mom said you can't have them at 7 and half here too young and I said well then I quit and so she called me back down to that. I dr. O she'd rather have you working? Oh, yeah, and I told him and he's like no way in the world now back then they would the flimsy plastic. They were often lasts other glass or class if they could cut your eye and off they polished them so they had to have ridges still but I have did you yeah. Well, I still really I hate War them for about forty years. I hated him when I got home the time over drop out really into a glass of wine or whatever. I hardly ever home Fallout. No, not really. I mean I got them and they were felt like glass in my eyes when they put him in the first time. I mean literally and I I learned to wear them because I was determined to wear them and then they you know, they changed over time. My life rather rapidly. They became they became plastic. Yeah, I never had the soft ones. Oh, really? I tried him a couple of times. I couldn't get him out. I couldn't believe it had to go to the doctor and have them taken out. So I ended up I think the last guy I had was what we called gas permeable. Okay, which means they're they're a a plastic at type thing, but the air can go through them, right? So there are a lot easier to wear. Well you guys drag but you know the minute I would get home I take them out and put on my monstrous glasses. Yeah, but then I had surgery and now I only wear glasses so but oh Lord, but yeah also be young. Haha. Yeah. Well not always cracked up to be is it's no not at times. Have you ever thought about doing the surgery? So you're you're fixed, correct your vision. Yeah, but you know, you know, I've got a bit of diabetes. Yeah, I know so they can't do that. Huh? You can't but they you know, they kind of you against it because you never you never stable enough. You know what I'm saying? I do even though you're awake for this procedure and it's so close. It's not about it's not about the surgery itself. It's it's about that your your vision changes. Wow. Okay, I get it due to the high and low blood sugar count. I see I see. Yeah. Okay. Yeah off drag. Well, you know, well, you know, listen there's a lot worse out there. Well your glasses are you trademark anyway, so, you know John without glasses on National Health. I don't know how John was a glasses would be well, okay, we wouldn't recognize you. All right to be different and I don't know how they're going to figure out the results of this election. What a man stand by Usher who was nobody knows who nobody don't think they're going to know for years to come there. I know this qualify every vote. Oh my God, you know be it via mail, you know, there's going to be there's going to be what so what I'm looking for recounts thought well, there's gonna be recast but due to the corruption. Oh that they're going to clean. Oh gosh it every direction. Oh, I know it. I know, you know some states had already started counting them mailing ballots cuz they were allowed to write some states can't do until the polls close exactly. So there there were more gosh about a week before the election there were already more ballots cast and and sixteen years. Yes. I think they said even in Texas alone. There was a record that you know, right just that. Yeah like a day that they equaled what they did in the year off. I think it's cool that people realize how important this election is. Yes, but it's going to be at least a couple of weeks. Yeah, I'm taking four years. Oh my god. Oh, let's hope not. Let's hope not. Oh my gosh get away from them so they can sort it out. Wow, I'd God, but you know the the one more comment on that because this this is another thing that happened and it just it just made me start to wonder. What world are we living and now they have they they had Security Forces. Yeah. I'm a New York. Yes ready to go into the high-rent district. If you will write in case people started rioting in the streets over the options are there driving a you know, I mean looting. Oh, I know Jesus but having just breaking glass but it's it's it's and I don't mean to knock on but it's third world countries that Riot over elections wage. The United States unfortunately, it's becoming they're just going it's going to end. It's on God John and that's why I'm not sure that either one of these parties boss has the answer your has to come from the people itself. Oh God. I know I just don't know that we're ready yet as a society. Well, we're devolving rather quickly Vivo Tapas Vivo. Yeah. We Are Devo do you Evolution? I know and we are doing it quite rapidly. It's it's terrifying really I mean, you know, we've got two things at work, We've got the Covent crisis putting companies out of business left right and center and ruining people's lives with loss of income and so forth and then as a society we're devolving into gosh knows. What what is going to be left? Let me ask you something. Huh? Totally separate. Okay, but I helped you get a little thing in because you're running for a job. Ward yeah, I'm wondering yes, sir. What what you see what do for you I mean, I mean, it's look like I've got tons of awards, you know, I know sometimes I don't even know what the hell it off right now the gold regular silver record the Platinum brackets sales John that's for sale the sales. Yes, the book under was from the variety Club. I know there's different things, you know, and I still don't know why early and often even right? Well because you're Sean and because you've done wonderful music and songs say that you're a great one of the best podcasts out my goodness. Well, how many people have 20 how many I sixteen? Oh, no, the golden Lakes 1668, isn't this would be Seventeen once a year off, but you did a great broadcaster covered. Yeah that that one when I when I did that one, I knew right off I said, that's wrong. My goal my cat tree see because it's it's a hard it was hard interview to do because Betsy is a friend of mine. Yes, I remember. Yeah actually thought she had covid-19 days a temperature over 100 for operating if you will she is still having all sorts of problems. She had pneumonia recently and her lungs are scarred and you know, their research is saying that a lot of people are going to be looking at lung transplants in about ten years because our lungs are so scarred and they still don't know all the things that covid-19. Her talk about what she went through my God. Yeah and how they kind of beside knows. Oh, yeah. Oh because she got sick right at the beginning when they didn't know and they were scared and if she took it sent numbers or whatever. They just won't even accept it, right? Well, yeah if her breathing cat wasn't below 90% that's it and a couple of times she was in there at ninety one. Come on, and he would have kept her in the hospital at ninety one. They sent her home at ninety. You feel like you're drowning if you just can't get the air in and off. And you're gasping in your wheezing and you're just trying to get enough breath to even talk and that's I'm assuming that that's what those ventilators are far. Right you get to a point where your your lungs and and all the apparatus you use a breather. So inflamed that the air can't get down by it's right. It just can't so the ventilator actually puts a tube down into your lungs through all of that to get the airbags your lungs if There's still enough of an opening to get it down. And sometimes there's not. Wow. Yeah, when your bronchial tubes seized up, it's it's crazy happens so fast to I don't know that I want to deal with that. You know, the first time I didn't get asthma too. I was twenty-seven and I absolutely remember the first time and I didn't know it was happening to me. I had no idea was it feel like it felt like well if it just felt like my whole body was being squeezed and it was I couldn't get my air in I see wage. I thought three know right and I was alone and I remember I went outside. I thought maybe some good are outside. It was nighttime, and I stood outside and it didn't do much of nothing and I thought okay, just chill just calm down. Yeah, maybe it's nerves right? And I finally thought it's not stopping and I can't breathe and I called 911 and I woke. With not get the words out. I didn't have enough air to make sound and the if that God the nine-one-one operator, she I remember she said you can't breathe right wage and I I said I said Aha and she said, okay. I'm getting your address from your phone number and she says and you're going to stay on the phone with me and she said I want you right now to go to your front door so you can still go to your front door cat you and I said, I should go your front door and unlock it and lock it good. And then she said you have any pets and I managed to squeak out a cat and she said Okay She's I'm going to I'm going to tell the paramedics that you have a cat to watch out for not letting your cat out and that the door is open because otherwise they'd have to break it in. Yeah, she said you're going to stay on the phone with me and you don't have to try to talk, but she said I want to make sure you're with me. So if you can't talk just hit a number on your phone. So she did the right job. Yeah and within about 10 minutes. They come Aston in three of them with us, you know a gurney and the whole nine yards and throw oxygen me and oxygen take me to the hospital. Oh my God, I just like I don't know. What's going on Wow, and how can how can a has become on so quickly adult onset? Asthma was weird. That's what I'm asking. It's odd. They don't know just awful. Yep. Yep. They they really they don't know how it comes on usually start as a child. Most people a lot of people crying with it. I well I know a couple. Yeah, you know, I got a good friend of mine off the sun. Oh, yeah, the whole Children's Miracle Network. I don't like yeah and his son Danny, you know was he was going to die. Oh and it costs. I don't know quarter million dollars off. This is back in the what eighties early nineties late eighties. And you know, thank God for things like the children's movie. Yeah, cuz my couldn't have paid for it now, of course, but yep. So, you know use all the apparatus and he's now that he's in his twenties. He's totally grown out of it. No. Well mine. Mine is you grow out of it. Probably not. It doesn't seem to be the case. I mean, I've had a well over thirty years now. Oh mine's controlled with medication three kinds of medication and get halers. I take a pill and no I don't take steroids unless I start having an attack cuz they will fight information give you steroids. I have steroids on hand that opens up if need be right most of the time. Okay, most of the time it's it's one of the the emergency remedies you go and change your emergency inhaler. That's albuterol. Yes, which will make you real shaky and jittery and then if nothing else works out of a nebulizer nebulizer, which yep It sounds like Star Trek. I now right you'd realize this box. It's a liquid version of what's in an inhaler and you put it in there and it makes it into this really fine miss that can walk. So fine. It can get through little passages in your chair ways and I can suck on that and every every couple hours and if that doesn't break it in about maybe eight hours off we go to that doesn't sound like a lot of fun. Yeah. Dr. No no. No, I've been hospitalized several times and 911 at least three times anything that might bring that down. You know, it's funny. Mine is weather. Is it stress is it it's funny because stress can do it and I'm sure stress can I can certainly do it every time I try to clean the house I end up with my tires are going. Oh God, the fires are terrible for me. Right? I'm not supposed to even go outside, right? The fires can do it dust if I'm cleaning the house dog. How are you at the masks that you Gotta Wear? Oh God John. I feel like I'm dying as drifting right feel like I'm dying right like a can't breathe. There you go. Yeah. I've tried a lot of different kinds that I've got a couple of them that have the filters and all that but they're easier to breathe with. Okay, and I also you know there there are so many companies trying to find masks different kinds of people that I've got this weird. It's like a little frame. Okay, and it goes inside the mask. Okay, and actually keeps it away from your mouth. I just said it's not fully protecting right but it's keeping it from your mouth. Right? Right. Yeah, so that helps quite a bit goodness gracious it it's not all got a deal with them or you going to do, you know, I'm just saying, you know, I think like with anything you get in a habit of handling it and it's routine, you know, you don't know when you're talking to someone. I mean, I've known you for quite a long time. Yeah, you know but you've got such a an eminent front. You know, I'm saying I think it well. You're fake it. Well golly. What are you going to do? Well, some people just, you know have a pity party. Well, that's no well. I know everybody gets sick of you when you do that. That's not your way. I mean, I've learned that, you know, you're not going to sit there and go. Oh well, let me tell you know, in fact if anything you're going to jump up on a right have a Sears and try to hang something then fall and crack your ankles. Thank you for that. Well, you're not do that much anymore. I me your neighbors. Any money is bad. It was your need your ankle both. I know both I was there for your ankle. Yeah. Well, I kind of just see when you fill out the wage war know I messed up the ankle again. That's my fault. I did I messed that up. I messed up my knee. I'm right here. I think there's a broken bone right there in my thumb really hurts. We need to make you know, remember those human. Skeleton. Right the new tablet I have. All right new part with pins. Well, you know Randy and I were talking about last night cuz Lopez my knee was really hurting and I know I'm going to probably have to have a surgery on it. I'm not going to have surgery drink of it. I'm sorry. No, it's not going to hospital in Covent. You kick. They probably be more careful than ever. Yeah. Well it have to be a life-and-death situation to get me there. All right. I don't think it's awful. I don't think so. Just don't push it. Well, why don't you know John with covert. I'm like you I go from the house to the studio, you know, right but I mean hardly going off but for the better part of a year. Yeah, I watched jagra date degradation. Is that right? Right. I'm not sure. Yeah your your foot kept walking on it. What am I going down? You slide on my tail fix it. Well, I didn't have time. That took a lot of time, you know shaking my head hurts, you know, you are right. All right only because I care but we couldn't have gone to go through a lot of pain. It's it's incredulous to see how much pain you have stemmed we couldn't have gone and performed in New York in January. If I had my surgery when it first scheduled, could we well, there you go. Okay. There you go. Listen, that was an important part a trooper. There was an agent about it. That was an important thing for us to do. I just who knew covid-19 to hit two months later God so tired of it so tired. I think everybody is PR and and it's James the street seem to be pretty full again. Yeah, people are out and about there aren't about I still see very reckless driving. Oh my God, right. Are you suppose I have never been in a room passed by hundred-mile-an-hour cars and so much in my life. Forget the red lights. No nothing. I know, you know and you know, the CHP is talking about not only more accidents but more fatal. Oh, yeah, excellent measure so cuz you crack up. Yeah, it's still the hit-and-runs. Oh God. Yeah happening. Cuz I know it's very sad it really God. It's like everything is starting to just fall apart. Well, I just don't know how to take it. Well really don't we need more music? Well, we need more musically more creativity. Yeah me more love. I mean, I know I know I'm not being flippant know I know you know, I really mean it. I mean even tough love I know how do we do it? Well god dammit stop by taking care of yourself. Am I think everybody's trying right now and and when you see something that's not right like with your hockey player you talk about it. You say no wait a minute, you know, maybe maybe that's just not too far folks. Well, I don't think the Cody is going to go backwards. But I hope another NHL team Picks Them Up and does something like what we talked about so that could be done. Why not? Well, I'm just I think it could be well, okay. Yep. Couldn't it? Well, that was show them that yeah. Yeah. Yeah because I don't think there unless you murder somebody I don't think there is any one thing that should Define the rest of your entire life know that's that's for sure unless you do something horribly heinous like rape or murder. Yes, and I'm not I'm not saying what I totally get you. Yeah, I'm not saying what happened to this young man was a traumatic as it would get at that age. The young man they bullied as a foolish. Yeah, but you're a little yeah, I mean it breaks my heart that he was pushed around and and made to feel bad. It's terrible. Well, you can still use him to make a statement. Yeah without berating him without punishing him. He's like totally but moved has same guys. Don't do what I did. Okay and let everybody move past it now because if we just keep on hanging out on things that were how do we ever go anywhere? Well, I don't know she became I own to the slaves over the Indians Island for the you know, every indigenous species. There is I owe them something. Well, you weren't in this country and neither was my family during those times. My family did not come into this country until about gosh. I'm thinking pretty close to 1900 but it was in the 1890s that my my grandfather came like we weren't there for a lot of life, you know here in Germany my gosh. Oh, no, Germany. Got to go to Germany. I want to go there I do. Yeah, I do I do I would love to go there. Let's go. Well not really depending on how the selection turns out Forest. We might just go to stress out and stay there right? Yeah, that would be it would be. Well, I don't know, you know the last time the election back in 2016 when the decision was made. Yeah. I got at least three phone calls for my Palace in sure what he's saying now is a good time to come unless we listen Beatles did well enjoy know. I mean, what's the harm but we never Would it be combined? So in fact, I think some of our greatest shows were there because because that was real creativity real performing you had to you had to figure out how you survive for eight hours. Well, you had Pirellis. Well, yeah, you had a little Kelly's little help and we were young. Yes, but you still had the performer. Oh, yeah, because if you were lousy kick your ass, I can't believe you guys played eight hours a day. Just we did. I just don't even I can't fathom that that's what made us into the world Beetlejuice. I think we were oh, yeah, it was like boot camp. Yeah, no kidding. You could survive that survive anything who passed recently Spencer? Oh I sang with Spencer. Yeah, you did I did. I thought well the guy he was fun, you know, Birmingham I think his where he was from. Is that right? Yeah Birmingham be lived out on Catalina Island, dude. Yeah, what a great place to do. I do have to show me. Gordon Wala, okay, Peter and Gordon, right? Right, of course suspense. He was great. I mean, you know, he wasn't the greatest guitar player. It's it's funny because I've been talking to Randy lately. Oh, yeah, you know and we need Spencer in the group very well. He says he goes by how do I get are placement sir? We have already but I mean, you know, at least he put the group together. Yeah, but yeah, this kid Steve Winwood M. I know that's right. He's four years old. Yeah. He's just a little boy. You know what he's thinking of a man, right? I can't help but love yourself. You didn't sound like a fifteen-year-old. No, not even took a lot of people thought that they were black, you know, really the voice. Yeah. Oh my you know, I don't know if I ever thought that give us a loving guess I could see how precious one of the songs I sang with them you go. Okay. So there you go, you know, I found out something very interesting after Spencer's passing. What's up. There is a traffic reporter in Los Angeles. I've known her birth. Ever in a day. Okay, maybe these Fondo and she's on KNX and she I never knew that she used to go with him dated him dated him before they got really big no kidding and she's never she's never talked about it. Right cool. And she said one of the things that she remembers enjoying most was listening to his side of the telephone conversations with Ginger Baker. I'll write our long conversations over from cream. There you go. Yeah cool and they used to have like hours long conversations sensor and ginger helpful. Yeah. I did not know that about her wealthy is kind of crazy maybe a couple of years back. Okay. They did a really call it happy together to her. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know about like Mark Lindsay right right from the turtle buddy Paul Revere. Yeah Turtles & Gerry Gerry poke. Uh-huh. Uh-huh, Chuck Negron. Yep. Yep. Great tours. It was Buckingham. Oh, yeah. Whatever. Yeah, it's fun center the audience because the people sing every song. Oh, they know them all. Well, they were all kind of like everyone hits. Well, they used to do that with the Ohio Express to ride Colby singing right along with us off to sing with the ball and they were kind to yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They were they were they were all sixteen years old again. I'll write you know that that's something Paul Revere said to me years and years and years and years ago. I did a I interviewed him or something. I was working on why not take advantage of it and we were talking about how it is for him to be in the music business still. Yes, you know faith in his fourth decade of it at that time. Yeah, and he said well Tammy, I'm not in the music business anymore. But and I know I had the same reaction. He said I'm in the memory business. I love it off. It doesn't true because he's a new yeah. Oh God. Yeah posed brilliant. Yeah. It's a brilliant man. He said He said when you when you have memories, you kind of throw the bad ones to the side and you think the good ones come to mind. Well, that's the thing about music and kids. Will you think of a song you can put yourself in a specific? Yep map and most time it's positive history, right? That's what Paul meant. It's either positive or heartbreak know when you lost so has the breakup songs course. Yeah, right. We've all got them which is why they're popular. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but Paul said, you know, he was right. Yeah. Yeah, he's God sixty and seventy year old people in his audience suddenly are thinking with the mind of sixteen-year-old and just fun watching him play his Chevy all he had his Mustang. He had his Mustang in his Edsel took it to I thought he had a Chevy as well know maybe at some point. All right, but I remember the Ford. Yeah, the the the answer was on the East Coast. Okay. All right, and the Mustang was out here off. Because those things they're heavy cuz he's got all these keyboards in those Temecula, right missed you. I know that's where he was using the most. I know I know right those are heavy their birth to carry around so they had one on either. I told he's doing it anymore and he's got a couple of Road. He's right now, he's gone up always always gone. Oh, he was a lesson. He was wonderful, but you know that keyboard was so much fun because he had his keyboards in there and he had a another keyboard player on stage Danny, but Paul had sound effects writings that he could key over there. Oh, yeah, and he had all his toys that he'd walk up on top of the hood. He was ahead of his time. He could make the lights flash on the car and he is Hannah went up. He knew he was he was crazy man onstage a not crazy man off. Yeah, just a very nice man. Did you get to know Mark at all? Not really asking? No Mark wasn't with the band when I was really good friends. With them, but I have met Mark several times but really it's just been a meat. I know he went on to be an A&R guy for awhile. Oh, did he really he did? Yeah. I called her over the record company. Yeah, well years. So he's pretty had some hits on his own. Oh gosh. I know you know what Cherokee People in? Yeah in Arizona, I do I like I like Mark as a solo performer. I absolutely love him singing lead in Paul Revere and the Raiders still see him. I am stretching out. Like he's you know a good twenty-five years old. Yeah. I mean, he's crazy. He looks great, right? He looks great. He's blind as a bat is he? Oh God. Yeah. Oh, I didn't owe tax. Probably these big freaking thick worse than my name. Is he going out on stage like you used to not being able to see anything. Oh my god, really when he goes and puts his on all of a sudden the size of time night so big. Oh my god. Oh, yeah, cuz that's what that's your job. Even know what was going on during the first year. It's such a bad this anyways, you know, whether I can see you're not still mad libs probably because he's trying to make an impression he trying to know I know why do you think I had to take my glasses off then? Yeah, they make you well. Yeah, cuz you decided to know I was representing Singapore I go way back. Yeah. I had I am a couple of groups. Oh no, I had contacts all that. Yeah. I mean I had you know, I guess I make up on us and yeah, I had to wow. No, I once I got the wrong contacts. I never wore my glasses in public again ever ever ever ever. Nope or my contacts even though sometimes they hurt like heck. Well tell you Los Angeles office at a high point not only did the Lakers win with the guarantee from LeBron James. Oh, yeah, you guarantee a victory? Yeah. Okay LeBron, but wait a minute now. He's thirty-five years. I know is and he played like he was twenty-five. He was he get hyped up worship games. I I don't know LeBron. Well, you kind of grumbling a little know. I don't really watch basketball that okay, I doubt but they did a brilliant job. Oh did I mean they really knocked it out. And then of course the Dodgers, yep. Now those are your boys they used to be they used to they used to be but there's so, you know watching Steve Garvey and oh, I know and his Joker suit, he was dressed to the 10,000 an interesting look for him. Yeah, but he he look good. Oh, he looks fantastic. He he will always look fantastic and being gracious, you know, just just staring and what not. You know, I'm not a hundred percent sure. I know he has his Charities that he works with course he does and I know he's one of the Dodger he's a spokesperson for the Dodger public relations department light goes out on personal appearances and Thursday. There you go. Right now. I mean Steve's gotta be in his car like 73 Forest, you know, right but now he he's he's wonderful. He's a great person in a wonderful. He's a great player someone who's out there. Yep. Well, there's another good good buddy. Love that guy. Yeah, really great see and hear these guys and you know and the only controversy. Oh God, I know here we go with your pills that again. Well, you didn't know he did to know they said it came in late know he was pulled out of the a city, right and he took in isolation because they told him he was covid-19 and that's what I'm saying, but he didn't know before no he didn't know blacks or that's what I'm saying and right then the Yanks him right, but but he didn't stay in fact. You am I going to tell you something. You don't know tell me something. Oh my goodness. I remember being accident. That was it for me. Oh, no, that's not it by a Long John as soon as they won and everybody run out on the field as they do. So did he show that yes. Yes. You're right with that. You talked about playing? No. No, no. No, okay. He ran out. He had a mask on for a bit. He kissed his wife so that I saw oh my God, he's exposed. Everybody know I saw that. I know I must while he was playing the game before he knew he was covid-19 anybody who came into third base. He was awfully close to I know so everybody is so cool. They've got a number of players that are quarantining for 14 days. But that's the chance you take baseball, you know, open up the game. It's bound to happen. Well a lot. He's really getting a lot of heat from Major League Baseball for breaking the rules that they said. On for covid and I understand that it's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. All right. I so understand him wanting to run out there. I've been at you know championship games in the the NLCS in the ALCS. And and I've been at World Series games and it's a feverish. So it's a celebration like none other it is so wonderful and you want to you want to hold the trophy and look at the trophy and you know, I've covered it as a reporter, you know, I've gotten champagne dumped on me in the whole nine yards, right and who cares cuz it's wonderful. I understood that he didn't want to miss that but all I would say is he Shoulda kept his mask on If he if he was going to go out there and understand why he did keep the darn mask on liberal. Was there a picture of him holding the trophy? Oh, yeah, right. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, okay enough already reportedly kissed it. There you go. He actually kissed his wife knowing he had cold. Yeah, but but he's been with her. I don't condemn him for going out on the field. I think it was a foolish thing to do but understand totally why he did it. Yeah, but darn it off. I kept his mask on. Yeah, cuz it again this is this is going back to that interview. I did with Becky we are not taking this serial. It's it's getting worse. I know we're not all you keep watching the papers for for a change and it's it's incredible how it keeps exponentially growing. Oh, yeah, and they're finding that the immunity only lasts a few months right where it's out right doesn't last people are getting reinfected. We're not taking it seriously enough dates. You're punishing us know, I don't think even even creatures that we are I don't believe in things like that. This is a virus and it right it's very but it's a living breathing creature. It's very virile winning. Well at the moment. We're not fighting right? Yeah, we have lots of holes in our defense and that that just that's just upsets me because we've lost people a lot of people in your life. I've lost somebody who meant just so much to me. I miss him. He's been gone now eleven what six months and I just miss him constantly. It's hard to believe that I know. Yeah. I know he'd be here. Otherwise he would there was no other reason for him to leave and that's see, you know, and I I have other friends who are coming trying to bounce back from it. And it's oh my God Sean. We're just not taking it serious enough and we have to well, I don't know what it's going to take. I don't know either. I take me to crosses. I know me too. I really do get me to and yet I still try to live some semblance of life. And I think that's the key is to live a sensible life for being in the middle of a pain dead. It doesn't mean you can't do things know but you gotta be careful and you gotta follow the rules and I think I think personally was going to take is somebody in Washington putting up an example proper life. Well yet to be seen that's what I was having yet know. I know you look at what mr. Trump says, he says I have nothing to it. You know what I'm going to go out on a limb here and say wage. I wonder if he ever actually had it. Well, that's interesting. There doesn't seem to be anybody on this Earth that has gotten over in seven days off and you'll accept that he had whatever the greatest drugs injections care possible. I don't buy it. I hear you. I understand what you're saying you're saying it was kind of a sleight-of-hand. Mhm to say look I did it right. It's certainly underscores what he's been saying anything's possible. But darn, right it is this is you that's quite a far. I've thought that since birth. GetGo interesting thought I really did I was thinking that way because he might be right. Yeah. Well, I just and again, I I am not a conspiracy theorist. You know, that that's not me, you know, but I'm just thinking, you know, if people around you started to get it you could take advantage of that situation if you were of a mind to absolutely. I'm just I'm just kind of wondering cuz as as virulent as I know it to be from this research, I've done as a reporter and anchor and what my friends have gone through and that's first-hand knowledge. Even with the best drugs on Earth. You're not going to pop right up and be perfectly normal in seven days. I would think so. No don't buy it. Well, no, I really I just don't make sure you got some beautiful new furniture. But yeah, we we've been like that over to help transportation. We have a we have a robotic oven Hibachi Governor compartment off. Is yeah it can read the barcode get out on anything that you show it? All right that needs to be cooked. Okay, and it will determine how long to cook a phone call back in touch with John Stars. Tim Piper is John Lennon and features. Tammy tree home and is produced for muffle media by fabulous. Jerome Productions. Jim Piper offers up his original songs influenced by his love for the Beatles and John Lennon on his first CD release now hear this available at talks with John, be sure to subscribe to talks with John for free on iTunes Stitcher radio and wherever podcasts are and please leave a review for us. It helps others find our show socialize with us on Facebook Twitter and Instagram and find Us online at talks with John, birth. That's a mouthful.

Arizona Coyotes John eighteen year Brett Kavanaugh hockey sixteen seventeen year Mike standard Mac Miller Lord John University of North Dakota golden Lakes NHL John Smith 19 days 90% John Lennon one day thirteen years fourteen years eight hours
#TBT Does Hurt Equal Harm? Understanding pain w/ Kory Zimney.

PT Pintcast - Physical Therapy

24:24 min | 1 year ago

#TBT Does Hurt Equal Harm? Understanding pain w/ Kory Zimney.

"All right continuing the theme of pain we go all the way back to national student conclave in two thousand fifteen what our very first episodes with a guy by the name of Cory resuming great episode on pain does hurt equal harm this one recorded live over beers in Omaha Nebraska as we continue talking pain this month throwback Thursday with pt podcast like what you hear. Leave us a review on I tunes. It's not like our moms can keep giving us five stars ars every day or can they. This is the PD gas podcast cast that talks about physical therapy older beer bringing together clinicians researchers and forward thinking in the show. That's anything boring. This is the PG Pine cavs with your holds. Jimmy Mackay all right here we go next episode of the PT Pint Casts Corey Zimny PT Deputy Assistant Professor at the University of South Dakota School all of Health Sciences physical. Therapy Department received his master of PT from the University of North Dakota Ninety four completed the post professional DVD from Des Moines University in two thousand ten currently enrolled in a PhD program at Nova Southeastern University. He's part of the Center for Brain and behavioral research at the University of South Dakota and therapeutic neuroscience research group conducting research specifically in the areas a pain neuroscience education and Therapeutic Alliance also provides teaching instruction -struction with the International Spine Pain Institute in partnership with evidence in Motion Cory welcome to the PC podcast man. Thanks Jimmy God to be here. First question is always is the hardest one. What are we drinking tonight so I have local red okay so it's actually pretty tasty here at the local beer patio and kitchen national suited conclave. You presented today do it again tomorrow. It's gotta be a cool feeling great. agree students are great. I really appreciate just seeing how many showed up I was. A little nervous is on the far end of the hallway so I thought are they going to travel all this sense but then I remembered their PCs exercise so stretch the legs so you gave me a little bit of a the national student conclave history last night. We ran into each other in the hotel bar two guys who just wanted to have a drink for the conference. I guess why not and you are at the very first national student Conklin I was is that even you know. The sad part is back then. I didn't recognize the very per student conclave I just remember. They said hey ravenous student conclave thing and come on out so my senior year we Road trip down to Louisville Kentucky and join a few of the local brews bat down there and I enjoyed the content but I was checking out and they said yeah the first student conclave was the nine hundred ninety ninety three in Kentucky and I went I was there. Were there aren't a history. That's got to be really cool to go. There's Al- circle I mean that's that's awesome student there and then come back and you're on the bill. Okay I bet the podium yeah so how'd that feel being in front of a bunch of students Sierra professor now so you kind of get that vibe anyway but it's got to be cool when you see a bunch of really really motivated students willing to drive or fly from far away just to come absorbed something from from this field right why and the beauty of what we know about. Oh conferences like that is when we look at that room and see those students you know who the leaders of this profession are going to be in the future. It's everyone of those students because if they have an interest in a drive now now what did they wanNA years from now there will be the leaders of our profession and we know that you know so if you want to be great in this profession to serve going to meetings because you'll start connecting you'll get that internal drive in you will be a great therapy. You're literally walking proof of that being at first national student conclave new back presenting Yep. So what are we presenting meeting on because you're saying that something is real but I I feel like I felt it right. So what's your presentation to sell it a little bit so I talked about basically went pain is not a thing man for years. traditional old base manual therapy type of therapist and it was always looked at as pain is the you know. It's a slipped disc. It's the joint that's odd place. It's your fascist stuck into. Willie's brass for this thing to fix it. Fix It problem. What's wrong with you and I can fix it. It'll be better unfortunately really through years of practice. I find out I couldn't find fix everything and every time I found something didn't necessarily fix it and obviously I was fortunate enough to meet Adrian. Low about eight years ago aw and I found out that there's a thing called brain and nervous system and I realized maybe there's a little more to life than just muscles joints and Fasha that maybe there's a brain and not only just a brain and immune system cardiovascular system the endocrine system and how they all talk to each other right and they all talk and and and really the pain experienced that a person goes through what that really is all about self so that was really kind of what I wanted to talk about because I think too often we think pain is a thing is something that we can fix and and really the National Association study for pain tells us pain is an experience okay and it's understanding that that when you're talking about painting to understand the patient experience and that's what the Bio uh-huh psychosocial model really brings us to is really looking at not only just the biological tissues do get injured. There's no doubt about that and I think sometimes that gets lost in our message. Oh you just think it's all in the head and it's like no there's real tissues. They get injured but the thing about the human body tissues heal and there's really not a lot we have to do to make tissues heal. It's a normal biological process when you were a kid and fell off your bike a week later. That bruce is going to go away. It goes away and you didn't have to think about it. You didn't have to do anything about it. You know and I get. I'm not saying that you know loaded. You need to load the tissues appropriately. You need to get good nutrition. Good Sleep. You know all these things help that healing process but it's is going to heal itself for the most part yeah. I get it if it tears and stuff hopefully our skills are good enough to evaluate that it's a tourney. Seattle or the rotator cuffs torn but the weird part even even about that. If it tears or ruptures Lotta people can live just fine even with that. It's amazing adaptability of the human body I mean I used to coming out of school. It was all about the problem list. What's wrong with the patient right. You know you know if I can get thirty things that the problem is. I must have done something right and recognizing now. Maybe it's more of what the patient can do this and now it's much assist problem with recognizing all these things we talk about. Oh they have this wrong with them. Well th that's true in many cases but we have to start questioning what's Zab normal and what's normal. It's normal for that particular patient exactly because I mean obviously there's a huge variation in population and all the imaging studies now after people walking around the street with no back pain have herniated disc so as a herniated disk that big a deal. I'M GONNA give I'm going to give props to professor that. I'm not in a classmate so it can't be considered but cats. Try to get some points points on my Arthur professor marijuana blowy for Marymount University say all the time. Why are you looking for an. MRI half the puck exactly is GonNa have a disc NBA symptomatic or you're not have desk and have painted so it's not a thing and it's an experience you brought Adrian low and one of our first six episodes when with caring Letsie and she has the biggest man crush injury low she she emailed me books. Check out this book and hurt talk with us was great. She talks a lot about the pain and what the experience does and she talked about. If the patient can understand what's going on we can actually see an effect in any experience of Pan dealt with students to know about pain if we're stuck in this. This model of it is a thing because I read this. I don't understand what he's saying pains thing. I thought it was really it comes down to that and that's why we talk about explaining to patients and really we've all paying neuroscience education because when they can understand what's happening to them. They have this ability than to. Are you fearful when you know what's going to happen and if if you understand something how's your fear anxiety levels and when your feelings -iety levels get last guess what you experienced lasts less that thing. That's not a thing exactly that goes back back to what you're saying. A minute ago is all these systems talk to each other so when we are paying for something we think of receive is going to be painful. We tighten up and a lot of different systems. Heart rate goes up. A lot of things get cranked cranked up. So how do we put this into practice. PT Where do I take all relate back to Louis Gifford way ahead of his time. Some people may have heard about if you haven't looked look him up and he he unfortunately passed away a little over a year ago but he was just a physio out of the UK. There was just years decades ahead of the rest of us as far as how he recognize recognize this he wasn't a researcher he treated patients and through that process he had the ability to research and understand research and how it related. It's my patient on Monday and I think that's a hard thing for a lot of us to do because it's like all the research grade and then the big question is so what what what do I do with it. What do I do with it and and so he had this ability to take that understanding then to use that to to start explaining it to patients but to put it in language they can understand and we talk about the use of metaphors and stories stories but put it in a relationship that the patient can understand Lorimer Moseley showing us in his research that when you do this patients getting a lot of neuroscience neuroscience I barely could pass that class. I can't understand it and I thought it was Pretty Smart House. The patient GonNa get it man but on the basic level when we explain it in these metaphors in stories they get it man when they I understand it and they get it like you said we fear anxiety. We can use those wonderful magic words that we have in therapy. You're going to be okay so give me an example how you explain. How how would you explain it. You say like you know stories metaphors. Let's let's just go with someone that you're going to see a lot lower back then. It got low background. How do you explain that to someone to make me start on the path active actually going through. You know I mean I I work in the acute setting still so once a week. I still do a little work a lot of acute back pain a lot of times. We people originally obviously the research behind this chronic pain and and we'd like people to get recognize. It's not just chronic pain. Pain is pain in many ways. You know we understand there's a difference as it changes over time but even in my acute patient when they come in and they're are fearful because they hurt their back because they may be lifted their CNA and they lifted a patient or they work on the factory line and they lifted a box and they have this fear because they're back hurts and and like you said they have back pain and what's that mean. I mean it'd be disabled. I'm over work again. Why not shoot me now. Now is the cascade going on a Whoa is me and right so they have all these fears so if I can just get a chance to explain to them that think about back when you're a kid and you did fall off that the next day when you're pant leg rubbed on your needed her yeah. Did you injured anymore. No there you go okay and so a lot of times. It's just simple things like that because they're back hurts. We equate as big heart told us pain is injury so if my back hurts again I must be injuring more and getting them to recognize the pain doesn't always mean injury and that's probably the biggest shift we often talk about is to get them to realize obviously pain and injury go hand in hand many times and they're similar equated and they should be you know if I'm walking down the street and I roll my ankle. I hope it tells me that I rolled my ankle but in the same sense of I'm walking across the street and I roll my ankle and I happened to Zia bus. I hope my brain says don't worry about that right now and get across the street across the street. That's good. That's a good example. It's a good many people can people can kind of picture that just going on some stuff that I read that you had put out there her and go on my talk with carrots educating that pain is a response to let you know that something could be becoming damaged. Another something is becoming damaged. Pain is based based on the brain's perception and spearing and it's an experience. It's the brains of best guess and it is that it is. I guess it has to guess what's what I think. Might potentially attention be threatening or dangerous to me ban so anything that potentially could be dangerous. I should use paint protect myself. Pain is the ultimate protector right. It's meant to do that so if I sprained my ankle and tells me you know running a marathon. Tomorrow's probably not the best thing I should do and that's really what what Kane is sports meant to protect US unfortunately culturally truly and because of fears and multiple stressors that we live with today I think many times are paying system becomes a little more hyperactive a little more sensitive because everybody tells us what's wrong with us and we image something that may or may not necessarily be significant and so we have so many more fears and anxieties hit a lot of it potentially has to do with the culture that we live vind man. We've kind of expect immediate response because we want immediate gratification now now I want to now right and so I want my pain to go away now and that's great but the reality is as we often think about this and Steve Schmidt opened up our summer clinical conference this year when he talked about his talk is very first question is is painting gift we had that's a message do prevent injury right. Should we look at it as I don't want that right because it's unpleasant and I get that. It's very unpleasant but the reality is is we know there's actually people that live in this world world that don't experience pain. They have a genetic disorder. They don't feel pain. They don't live very long. ooh. That's a good boy. You put your hand on hot stove. You don't know about it until you start smelling flesh. That's burning me go. What's that a bad smell and you recognize. It's you you break a bone. You walk on a broken leg. So pain is actually in many ways should be seen as again. It's narrative protect us. Unfortunately our brain doesn't always get everything right all the time or it holds onto that protective response a little too long ultimate. The brain wants to protect us. That's GonNa make us live as long as possible exactly your brains. The job is to decide what's dangerous so I can try to get through to tomorrow. He talked about our culture especially in America our need for one now now just seeing a lot of things going around about physical therapy and getting PT. I in terms of decreasing opioid use because if I have pain am I think of physical therapy because I want it now. Want it gone now so I'm GonNa the go-to that hill because that will do it. That'll stop that message and the funny thing we talk about going to that pill and I have a great story. I get an opportunity to talk to the residents because we have a medical school attached with us so there's a residency program and then so they come up and talk them over there in our in one of the residents shared a great story 'cause I went through my spiel and kind of my little talk and stuff and he goes well. I have to share and he said everything is. Exchan- is absolutely true. He had a patient that he had to put a detox for other reasons so he had to take office pain meds and they're like well. We have to get you off. All this pain meds because we got a detox. You guess what is painted after he detox gone gone and we know that now that actually it's called the opiate opioid high tall gesia that by using opioids especially Ashley over a long period of time. You can actually increase the sensitivity in the nervous system which will make you more sensitive so again going through again. It's not like he just stopped cold Turkey. I'm not telling people well they do that but again. I think going through proper drop in some of that make issue and when you understand the simple messages hurt doesn't always mean harm right sore but safe these are mantras visit. We use with patients to understand that. I heard you know educate patients like we just said when you injure spelled out on your bike and go and do exercising like Oh that hurts and I always say remember her. Her doesn't mean harm by so save like that but this should be like a hundred motivational poster in a in pt clinics hurt me harm. I like that so how do I how do I put this into practice. I'm I'm going to be a new Grad. PT In less than a year and of course when you're in front of the patient for my first couple of patients at any clinical rotation deer in headlights. I'm just looking for something. I'm looking looking for pain because I want to once I wanted. I say I can treat it window. I bring this in at what point in the treatment for me it's Day One and like I said I think obviously they were just like any clinical skill recognize explaining the pain to patients. It's a clinical skill just like any other clinical skill right. It's a communication skill the hard part about it as a communication education skill when you learn a new mobilization or manipulation technique. It's Kinda funded practice on your breath all the time. You know you bring all your friends in your classmates in and show you this click. Click Lick pop pop in on you. Practice it over and eventually you get pretty good at it. It's a little more weird to say coming here on explained Pandya and so our communication and I'll be honest when I first I heard Adrian talk and I'm GonNa Revolution my life and Monday morning. I talked to my first patient. I'm like well. That really sucks go. It was horrible it was it was uncomfortable for me. You could tell his uncomfortable for the patient fortunately for me and my clinic setting because there was a occupational medicine clinic so there's a lot of acute injuries pretty rapid turnover and so probably you know maybe ten patients a week after the first year of doing it over fifty weeks ten times a week. That's five hundred times. I got a little bit better and then after the second year now I got two thousand one under my belt and I was a little bit better and that's the thing is it's a hard thing just like any clinical skill plus a target practice can you can you kind of size up. I've done one rotation outpatient. Ortho and some patients just want me to tell them what to do and somebody lights when I'm brought over the anatomical model of the shoulder and said so here's what I'm seeing. Here's why here's why can you assize up whether someone's like just tell me what to do. I WanNa hear about right and again a lot of times my simple questions after I evaluate 'em so I go through full clinical exam and evaluate them and everything and in a lot of times. My first simple question is so. Do you know what's wrong with. You may ever told you why you hurt and usually you're. GonNa get met with one of two things. One is silence. The other or is going to be some explanation. That's so far off base Taivon close. Most of our patients have no clue why they still hurt and so that's where we talked about the experience and listening into their story listen to wide all these strange symptoms that you can recognize probably don't make sense to them in a why does my pain started in one spot and it's spread from one side to the other and you when you simply start talking about how the nervous system communicates goes all over. It goes all over so you know when you hit your funny bone. Where does it hurt down the arm. It's not where you hit it does because it's a nerve yeah yeah forty-five miles worth of nerve spread all throughout your body see start trying to connect these dots for them to make them understand that it's more than just an in your tissue and even if it is an injured tissue think income every cut and scrape. You've had your whole life you ever had one of those not. He'll now so it's helping the patient recognize it. Yeah you injured tissues and that's okay because guess what they're going to do. They're we're going to heal so again. A lot of these just simple stories like I've been sharing with you now. It's just utilizing those in a patient encounter when you're talking to a patient and that's the examples that you kind of given that that makes me either. I was just going back to something you said how people look grab onto at what their injury is and I know I have friends who have this and it's it's almost like the opposite of the ICS cf model they grab onto well. I'm planter fasciitis. I'm I'm I'm a rotator cuff tear. It's like well. No your guy and you might have that but let's see if we can work on that. It's almost like they grab abondoned pain like Oh. I'm back pain right and that can't be good for this whole mechanism and talking about and then now I'm seeing a lot of people identified that way. I'm low back pain and I actually just tweeted this the other day because I've been hearing conversations you know is it a patient is it a customer and it's all about the customer experience and all that and I tweeted out it's a person how `bout his name is Joe and he's married to a wife and they have two kids and he has hopes and dreams and I understand that idea behind the customer experience is in client and patient. I get all that but I want us not to forget. It's a person into see them as a person a necessary. ICS Now we learned that we learned that in our first semester hirsch our our our programming is you don't say low back Haitian. It's patient with low back pain right. It's the other way around but I think we we throw this around. I think I think between people it kind of gets caught it up with they just want to they want to explain what's wrong. I think almost because they just want someone to hear about it and they want people that were standing right and we need to validate it. You know when somebody is injured their injured when they have pain they have pain you. Don't a lot of people say oh. That's not real pain. The reality is when it is. I've had the opportunity to understand pain further and I'll be honest when I was out of school on treating patients and they'd come in and they're twelve ten in length. Call my God till about ten you faker and you give them the speech while seven hundred ten means you have to go to the emergency room usually respond one six point nine then but the reality is I've gotten better and listen to their story and oftentimes is I truly listened to what they're going through in the environment that they're in and everything that they're dealing with that twelve hundred ten patient a Lotta Times now I go to myself. How are they not a fifteen out of ten when I really listened to what they're going through and how they're having to cope and deal with everything everything and what they've been explained to and their background. I oftentimes wonder how are you not a fifteen out attend because if I were to put myself in your shoes with what you probably know I mean yeah I sit over. We're here with twenty years of clinical practice and had the opportunity to learn all of this great amazing science patients don't know any of that. They don't understand any of that. They still live under carte art model from sixteen forty four that pain and injury are the same thing is injured right who so what are some things that students can read in terms of articles or books. I know explain pain rain had brought that one up and taken a peak at that and that had ever learned something we either on this podcast or at school. Damn got ten more things to learn. I'm like I should just stop learning. You're reading should never stop doesn't and no I mean I'll tell you I have more articles to read than I'll ever be able to get through but that's okay because obviously soon as you quit learning you quit professional no more evolving done right yeah so. I mean yeah obviously lorrimore. David's explain book is excellent Adrian and Louis their therapeutic neuroscience science education. It goes through a lot of these metaphors in stories but I really Louis Gifford's books aches and pain so three volume said it's massive. There's a thousand pages. The beauty of it is truly that it feels like you're sitting down at a pub in the UK with a pint with Louis different and he's just helping you understand this whole thing and it is. It's amazing the way he writes. Is it unfair that I'm going to start some sort of campaign against his British and Australian people. They automatically get fifteen extra. IQ points too soon as we listen to them. Mitch I mean I'm not saying he's not worth but the average UK or or Australian guy. He automatically gets fifteen extra point. Just 'cause we love for some reason. We think the accent means. They're smarter well. Arleen blamed James Bond and you gotta recognize so I get the opportunity to teach with during his from South Africa so yeah he's got great accent right and Louis printed era Australia Australia so he's got a great accent and I'm probably one of those people I I probably have a face for radio but I probably have a voice for silent movies so I'm not sure where that fits in reverse this does the North or South Dakota accent work well in South Africa Australia or UK. I think that's why I need Adrian. GonNa take me down there. Maybe I got a chance to look smart. Buddy wants told me that Australian chicks do actually dig American accents. That's true booking flights. We have all of our episodes or pints and before the pint we have a shot so what's what's a parting being shot you would give to students or new clinicians kind of wrap their head around how they can use this in their practice either in clinicals with their with their patients on Monday that recognize are you going to be a master communicator with these patients no but can you start tomorrow by trying it and pain is amazingly complex thing and the reality aljaz every patient that walks through our door probably has some form of hand. I don't care if they're orthopedic. Neuro Women's Health Pediatric Wiscon- they just blew and so so so I think we all deserve or the patient deserves trying to understand this. A little bit. David Butler had talked about oftentimes that the patient and I remember this when I was up in Duluth Minnesota when Adrian told us this he said David Butler said the patient has to get it into the marrow of their bones when you're educating them and I said to myself at the patient has to understand it that well how much better I do. I have to understand it and don't get me wrong. We still need to load tissues who still need to stretch and mobilized patients. We need to use all of those skills that we've learned but I think we need to understand you. Stand this pain experience in what's happening in that to even help our patients a little bit more. That's good so all that stuff I learned in neuro anatomy still need to understand. They're going to have to use it great. I I just thought to pass a test in Washington to watch by. I didn't learn at fifteen years later well. It's good to hear that realis- never goes down in that you know you're you're going to be a lifelong learner because because we know that every time something new comes we're. GonNa have to adapt to it now. We know something new. Oh my patients better. Let me let me be able to do that so that's also good to hear well. Hey I'm excited. Get Your presentation tomorrow. National Student Conclave just about done with my half Wyson and it's been great podcast. I WANNA thank you for coming on out. what's your twitter twitter. Handle the jump on it at Zimny K. J. awesome fantastic. Bt Blankets episode cheers to you and thanks very much would be showman follow us on twitter at PT Pint cast and online at PT Pike Casts Dot Com. It's like TMZ except with way more important information and know miley Cyrus okay. It's not like TMC at all. The PC podcast is intended for educational purposes. Only no clinical decision making should be based on one source awards care is taken to ensure accuracy. Actual heirs can be present. Our lawyers made us read that.

Pain Adrian International Spine Pain Insti professor researcher UK University of South Dakota Louisville Jimmy Mackay Kentucky Jimmy God University of North Dakota PT Deputy Assistant Professor Louis Gifford Conklin Des Moines University Nova Southeastern University Omaha
Living a full life / hemiarthroplasty / paying it forward

Mayo Clinic Radio

45:12 min | 4 d ago

Living a full life / hemiarthroplasty / paying it forward

"So from the studios of the mayo clinic news network. This is mayo clinic. Radio exploring the latest developments in health and medicine and what they mean to us. Welcome everyone to mayo clinic. Radio happy labor day weekend. I'm dr tom chives. And i'm tracy mccray here at the mayo clinic. There are a lot of positions with long and storied careers but six decades. That's an amazing feat. Wow on this labor day weekend program will need a physician who has spent some fifty eight years researching and improving the lives of patients that have been diagnosed with myeloma cancer of the blood also on the program a partial knee. Replacement is sometimes an option for patients with severe arthritis of the knee. And were radiation oncology patient grateful for his care at mayo clinic has changed careers to become an employee at mayo clinic hoping to make a difference for patients just like him. That's this week's program up next tracy. There are a lot of great doctors at the mayo clinic but there are some who would just sort of stand out. Above the crowd like mayo clinic. Hematologist dr robert kyle hematologist deal with blood problems. I think the most important of the cancer doctors. That's just me for more than six decades. Dr kyle has been on the cutting edge of medical research and technology. His colleagues would tell you that he has helped to break new ground in the practice of medicine especially for patients with a blood. Cancer called myeloma and we're privileged to have dr kyle. Is our guest on mayo clinic radio. It's very nice to meet. You took pleasure for me. Dr carol nice to have you first of all congratulations on stellar career. At the mayo clinic which is still not over. fortunately not know so you you come in every day still do and you've been here. What fifty eight years yourself. I've been here sixty six years. Since i started as a fellow ashley and on the stafford nearly sixty yes that is correct. But let's go back to you. Were born in north dakota right correct. Tell us about your upbringing because you weren't always set on a career in medicine right no. I was always interested in school and in fact When i was five years of age. I asked my mother if i could go to school visit for a day and she of course album. Okay and then. I did so and then i told my mother that I wanted to go to school this next fall and she said well you're only five years old. You should start until you're six no kindergarten of course at the time and So she talked to the teacher and the teacher. I guess Didn't object. After all she had fifteen eighteen children in a one room school Covering the eight grades so she just beyond and then When i was in the six grade in north dakota you have to take examinations at the end of the seventh and the eighth grade in order to go on to the next level and so the teacher asked me if i wanted to take the examinations for practice and not knowing any better. I said well okay. And then she A reported to me that Grades were very high and that she was going to talk to my mother about this and my parents didn't really know what to do with me either so finally the teacher decided to Promote me to the eighth grade. And so i completed that and Did the examinations for the eighth grade and you know we oftentimes think about all of the testing and so forth. that has done on students but That's not exactly new. that's not. He's not a north dakota all no and they were very strict about it because if you did not pass you did not go onto high school. How did you know you wanted to study medicine. Where all. I didn't of course at that time but One day my mother was talking to a friend of hers and and The friend said in response to what i should do is a why doesn't he become doctor. And i didn't think anything about it. But i was interested in the sciences. And when i graduated from high school a of went into premed. But weren't you in. You went to the university of north dakota his parish. But weren't you in forestry for a while. I went to the north dakota school of forestry. But i was not in forestry per se. I was in pre med all the time. And then you had a brother who is ill became ill. Yeah so. I had a brother who developed a severe headache one morning and Very soon his speech was Slurred and i knew there was something very wrong with him. So i Got our family doctor. And by that time he could scarcely walk and was admitted to the local hospital. The physician however had seen a meningitis. An intern and Treated him for it. Bacterial meningitis meningococcal meningitis. And they had antibiotics for it and they He was treated was salsa. Would be nineteen forty Five wow and then from there. Medical school. Where at north western. You must pass another test. And did they have 'em cats back then to us and what actually happened was is that i The university of north dakota ahead of two years school. But i the dean told me that They were in difficult times and that The building was old and that it would probably close if they could not get a state. Referendum passed so He said well very. Why don't you apply at a four year school and said if you want to be a professor apply at harvard if you do research go to the university of pennsylvania but if you want to be a real doctor apply at northwestern and of course i wanted to be a real doctor and you can imagine the dean had trained northwestern tip discards a little bit there and then after medical school. How did you ultimately end up at mayo clinic. Well i decided during medical school. That i was more interested in medicine that i was in surgery and I took my internship and the main the major Physician or the leading physician had trained here and so Other people had gone from northwestern to mayo clinic. And so i did the same. And then you ultimately specialized in the field of haematologist blood disorders but at with a particular interest in myeloma. How did you get so interested in in my aloma well We had to spend six months in a laboratory at that time as part of our internal medicine training. And i signed up for hematology. Because i knew less about it than anything else and then when i finished the laboratory i realized that i didn't know anything about the clinical aspects. So i took the hospital service and on that hospital service. Two things happened. I i saw electric ready pattern. I had never seen one before because it was a new test and Ned bought barad. Who was the consultant on the service. said why don't you look into it and so i did and reviewed the six thousand patterns that had been done here and Wrote a paper that was published and then during that same hospitalization a woman was admitted to the hospital With mile olma for radiation therapy. But as i've read the chart she had had a biopsy. The biopsy showed amyloid. And i said to my so what in the world is that. I had never seen her more appropriately. had never recognized patient of amyloidosis in four years of medical school. A internship two years in the air force as a physician and three and a half years as a fellow at the mayo clinic. So i had seen a goodly number of patients. So amyloid is an abnormal protein yet. collect the new. You saw that in a patient that you hadn't seen before. But i hadn't seen that i hadn't recognized this before is a more appropriate term and then this sorry to the serum protein electrophoresis. This this is a study that are are you. The one who figured out that there was a particular pattern that patients For with myeloma have Yes that was That was the so-called spike in the electro ferretti pattern and I reviewed those patterns and found that the vast majority of them did have multiple mile. Oma were walden. Strums macro lobby at anemia. Okay multiple myeloma. Tell us a little bit about the disease and in lay terms. I mean it's a cancer of the blood. It's a cancer of the bone marrow. Basically and these plasma cells become malignant continue to grow and produce more protein and damage the bone and did patients ever survive myeloma. I mean now it seems like it's getting a few years up to five years in some survival stories but back when you started doing this. Was there ever anyone who survived myeloma. Well only for a very limited period of time in my textbook in madison. It said that there were two treatments for multiple myeloma one was x. Ray therapy radiation therapy and the other was blood transfusion. there was no chemotherapy. No drugs available. So have you studied multiple drugs for myeloma and today. They're much better. I mean the survival. The average survival. For a patient with myeloma when i went through medical school and even residency was about three years. What is it now It is probably eight or nine years and for patients with good risk disease. It's even longer than that and in fact about a fourth of patients with multiple myeloma are actually cured or perhaps more appropriately said die of another disease other than their multi mile. That's amazing how what would you say is your most significant when you look back on career. There you've made so many isn't over yet that's right. What's what has been your most significant contribution in your mind. Well probably the major thing has been the the development of my younger colleagues and In the field disproved namias which include myeloma macro globule. Anemia and al amyloidosis as the major ones. The other specific thing is the recognition of a protein abnormality in the blood that I deemed Monoclonal gamma pathy of undetermined. Significance angus or mug. Us and this particular protein is found initially in every one of these disparate. Nubia diseases what What's your secret for success. Amazing why have you been so successful. Would you say. Well i think think it's Mainly a curiosity and wondering of how things happen and What is important and i stumbled onto the monoclonal gamma th-they somewhat by accident. There was a patient who was here with multiple myeloma and in reviewing her history. She had been here almost twenty years before and at that time she had an increase in globulin once in her blood but no one could measure them and so the physician advised no treatment from this individual powder on the shoulder and said come back sometime. Clean back thirteen years later. At which time electrical recess was available and she had this large spike in her sarum She still had no symptoms and then six or seven years later she developed back pain and the full blown picture of a very Active progressive multiple myeloma which lead to her demise Seven or eight months later and so that seemed kind of strange and so i started looking for these proteins in the blood and they were there and began to collect them and over the next ten years found a goodly number published Two hundred and forty one of them in nineteen seventy eight and named the condition monoclonal apathy of undetermined significance more than a mouthful. Are you still seeing patients. Are you still doing research. What are you still doing each day. I come in each morning about seven. Thirty in the morning and Look at my a emails and there are a lot of things that happened throughout the day. And i am busy until Four four thirty in the afternoon and I still come in on saturday mornings. Because when i came to the clinic. The clinic was opened on saturday. Mornings and saturday mornings won't saw patients until twelve one o'clock or sometimes a little bit later so that habit i guess has stuck. How is it. So you're into your nineties now okay. How old are you ninety-one okay. How have you prevented physician burnout. Well just coming to work every day but to be a little more specific my wife and i Charlene have done a lot of travel over the years and our son. John is also very interested in travel plans trips and we have Driven all over the world so to speak many trips Throughout europe australia south africa and So forth and then in addition to this i heavy hobby stamp collecting. Yeah well what what what what do you. What do you suggest that some of these younger physicians do. I mean what is it that brings you joy that you try to impart to them. Well one of the. I emphasize to them is that when they go to a meeting ask to speak some place or something like that to always sample something in the city. Go to museum. See something of historical interest. And i've always had an interest in both history and geography and to do something a always tell them that an airplane as an airplane. A hotel is a hotel and auditoriums auditorium. But you need to get out and do something squeeze in a few hours on each trip. Now that's easier nowadays for me than it is For the very very busy physician who has to get back to his or her patients so it's very important to have other interests whether it's travel or stamp collecting And that can help prevent physician burnout. It's it's interesting that it's such a common phenomenon now and that everybody talks about physician burnout. I never felt it. I didn't i haven't either and And it's I don't know a lot written about it. And i suppose that that physicians nowadays kind of keep thinking about it and so forth. I don't know but we just never never mentioned well again. Congratulations on a great career. Netted credible sixty plus year career at the mayo. Clinic is not over. Dr kyle is considered a multiple myeloma pioneer. That's what is his colleagues would Call him he's had he has done. Groundbreaking work that has changed the practice of hematology blood disorders. Andy's improve the lives in the longevity of virtually thousands of patients and he says whenever you go on a trip or a meeting make sure you sample something in the city. Thanks for joining us dr. Kyle appreciate having you here. It's been my privilege jim. thank you very much. Hi and give ian williams for the mayo clinic news network. What is the difference between occasionally worrying about your health and worrying too much. What if you can't stop thinking you're not as healthy as your doctor says well mayo. Clinic doctors say a little worry over. Your health is normal but for some people. Fear and concern over. Symptoms can get out of control. These people can become convinced that they have a certain illness. Even when test results are normal these are common features of somatic symptom disorder. That's thought to affect roughly five percent of the population. People was semantic symptom disorder develop an excessive preoccupation with physical symptoms including pain or fatigue that results in significant emotional distress or distruptions to daily living stress responses to these uncomfortable. Symptoms such as dizziness. Heart palpitations nausea pain or shortness of breath may further amplify worries. These symptoms may or may not be attributed to a diagnosed medical condition now. The thoughts feelings and behaviors may manifest in several ways including constant worrying about illness. Interpreting normal sensations as threatening or harmful and fearing that symptoms are serious or life threatening despite exams or testing that suggest otherwise. It's also common for people with somatic symptom disorder to feel that medical evaluations or treatments haven't been adequate repeatedly checking the body for abnormalities researching symptoms online and frequent healthcare visits or testing. That doesn't relieve concerns or makes them worse are also signs of the disorder. Now if you're experiencing unusual symptoms it's important to be evaluated by healthcare provider to rule out any medical problems. Your healthcare provider can perform comprehensive examination that focuses on your specific concerns however keep in mind that evaluations may need to be limited. As repeated or extensive testing may worsen your level of distress while the main goal of managing these disorders is to improve your ability to cope with your symptoms tolerate uncertainty and reduce health anxiety. The most effective treatment is psychotherapy particularly cognitive behavioral. Therapy talk to your healthcare provider for more information for the mayo clinic news network. I'm vivian williams. Welcome back to mayo clinic radio. I'm dr tom. And i'm tracy mccray during d. Replacement surgery damaged bone and cartilage is resurfaced. In it's done with metal and plastic components in a procedure called unique compartmental or partial knee. Replacement only a portion of the knee is resurfaced. It sounds like it would be tricky. Well if you're an orthopedic surgeon at the mayo clinic. It's a piece of. The operation is an alternative to total knee replacement for patients whose disease is limited to just one area of the knee in hitter. Talk about the indications for the procedure and the recovery is the chairman of the department of orthopedic surgery at mayo clinic in rochester. dr mark. welcome to the program. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here are nice to see you. Thanks for coming. So let's talk about in general about knee. Replacement surgery Why is it done One of the most common indications sure Replacement is typically done for patients who have advanced arthritis of the knee joint and that can either be arthritis from wear and tear just from years of use or from other causes like inflammatory arthritis. And when you do that most of the time the entire joint is involved or the majority of the joint so you replace resurface everything but if only a portion of the joint is involved you can do a lesser surgery and replace only the damaged portion. That's right for us selected subgroup of patients. They only wear out one of the three major parts of the knee joint. And if they have disabling pain and just one part of the knee joint. That's worn out then. A partially replacement is actually a very reasonable option for them. How can you know until you get in there. That a partial surgery would work. Is there an x. Ray does x ray show at her. How do you see yes so. The good news is with some specific xrays. You can largely determine whether a patient is in fact a candidate for partially knee replacement so it does take the guesswork out of it. It would be exceptionally uncommon in my experience to go into the knee and be surprised at the findings so a partially is determined. Before the time of the operation you talked about three compartments to the knee. What are those. Yes so the best way to think about it is the inside or medial compartment. The outside of the knee or lateral compartment and then the kneecap or patella federal joint so three parts and that patella fermo joint the joint between the kneecap and the underlying thighbone correct out of those three compartments. Which one is usually where you end up for when you do minimally invasive one so the most common is a medial compartment partially so the vast majority of people that have degenerative arthritis knee wear out the inside part first and then the other parts kind of follow. It is possible in certain circumstances to wear out the outside part or the patella selectively. But that's much less common. If you were out just the inside a part of the knee joint. You might be bowling. That's correct. now. This is almost deja vu because years ago a decade or two ago. When i was still doing joint replacements we did. Some unique compartment will knee replacement partial knee replacements and it seems like they didn't work out so well so what's different today. How did they come back into vogue. Yes so i think two major factors one is that years ago partial knees were used for reasons that were not appropriate so people tried to expand the use of them and the second was that a partially is technically a harder operation to do for the surgeon there have been advancements with technology and technique that make it more reliable more reproducible and more durable instrumentation is much better for sure. We did a lot of it freehand yen today. The the big thing and partial knee replacement is either computer navigation. robotics actually to help with that so the precision of the surgery has been markedly improved. And that seems to have an effect for the outcome. Let's talk pros and cons. What are the advantages and disadvantages of doing a partial knee. Certainly so what. I typically think about is that Partially as a smaller operation it typically results in quicker recovery and then typically also has a little bit better function than a total knee replacement for patients. And and that's partly because you're able to preserve the patient's owned ligaments which is a big deal that's right so in every total knee replacement we have to remove one or perhaps two of the major ligaments provide stability to the knee in a partial knee. We get to keep all of those ligaments so the way. The band's straightens after surgery is closer to normal with partially. you said. It's a little more difficult surgery to do Are there any disadvantages. So the biggest disadvantage would be that it is possible at a later date to wear out one of the other parts of your name in perhaps require conversion of partial need to a total knee. But it's also important to recognize that the intention with a partial knee. Replacement is to have that last as long as possible. So for most patients a partial knee replacement will in fact last them the rest of their life But it is possible that you might require another surgery. So tell us about the surgery itself How do you do it. Is the patient Asleep and you do it under a tourniquet. Yes so today. there have been some major advancements from a patient perspective in knee replacement surgery and one of those is advancements in all do Around the time of surgery so today most patients with a partial knee will have that done as an outpatient surgery so the him come in and go home the same day most will have done under spinal anesthesia so they can be Breathing throughout the whole surgery and most will be able to bear weight. Start walking immediately after the operation really so our main afterwards most patients will start with some kind of walking aid Either a a walker or crutches to start with but can quickly transition they can however put weight on it immediately after surgery are these components cemented or no they are cemented into place so cement for knee replacement continues to have an outstanding track record on. That's one of the advantages because the parts are bonded to the bone securely at the time of surgery then we're very comfortable with letting patients bear weight immediately following the operation. I just want to clarify something so you said if you don't have the surgery you know maybe the second joint then starts to degrade or suffer and then may possibly the third so that's the benefit of doing just the first surgery on the inside part of the knee. So if you do that surgery if you do this personal knee then. Why isn't it that pretty soon. You have to do a partial knee on the outside. I mean it would seem like if it's going to continue to degenerate that then other part would need to be partially done as well. Yes so for the majority of patients once we realized the knee and restore stability with partial knee replacement then then he continues to function well and so the chance of wearing out those other parts of the nego down over time the non orthopedic person had to clarify that got it well and he did a great job both clarifying that so i know we don't necessarily like to talk about This part of Our profession and the surgery that we do but there are always complications. And what are those when it comes to partial knee replacement so with partial knee replacement. The typical complications would be similar to the ones we would see with total knee replacement so Those would include infection bleeding nerve trouble. Blood clots now. The chance of running into any one of those complications is relatively low. But obviously for anyone patient That's a big deal. But we're able to take specific precautions to really minimize the risk of that and one of the advantages of partial knee. Is that for each of those complications. The risk is about half of what it is with a total knee replacement half an e instead of holy holy. Moly all right. dr mark. Pagano chairman of the department of orthopedic surgery at mayo clinic in rochester. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you so much. Jay masters came to the mayo clinic. I is a patient and he was diagnosed with stage four throat. Cancer stage four meaning that the cancer had spread to other organs or other parts of his body stage for his also called advanced or metastatic cancer. Not really what you wanna hear. We now see the doctor after finishing treatment surgery. Radiation and chemotherapy j. decided that he wanted to work at the institution that had cared for him. The mayo clinic and that's exactly what happened in here to tell us. His story is mr j masters. Welcome to the program. It's nice to meet you. thank you very much. It's great to be here jay. Thanks for calling so tell us. I think it was two thousand seventeen right when you first came to the mayo clinic as a patient and why did you come well. I had been To see an ear nose and throat specialist at another healthcare facility and he did some examinations and said. I think there's probably a better than fifty percent chance that you have cancer and i asked him what the procedure would be and he said well. We would perform surgery to remove the tumor. That's in your throat and then you would probably get radiation and chemotherapy. And i asked him at that time. I said okay. Who would do this surgery. And he said i would. I said okay. How many of these do you do a year. And he paused and he said well probably six to eight depending on the year and i for a moment and i said okay i said doctor i i don't want to be insulting am but if i have cancer in my throat i would rather have someone remove it who does eighty or ninety a year than someone who does six or eight various and i thank you. Yes and he said you know you haven't insulted me. In the least he said. I did my training at the mayo clinic. And i know exactly who i'm going to send you a to. He said for what you have the gentleman i'm going to refer you to is the absolute best surgeon in the world and i said sign me up know where were you. Where were you living. I live in harmony minnesota. So i bought an hour south of rochester. And so we've been made the appointments and i Just a couple of days before thanksgiving of that year came in to see dr eric. More what what were your symptoms that had you go see the ent in the first place. Well a early much earlier. In the year i had Noticed a discomforted my throat and a slight change in my voice but didn't come until later i saw differently and t at another facility and he said oh just a polyp nothing to worry about. We can remove that if it becomes a nuisance to you. Well it progressed for several months. But then what actually precipitated by coming in to see. My doctor was ice. I started having some swelling at the base of my throat on the left hand side. I showed my wife. She said this is not normal. I want you to get it taken care of to go. Take a look. See what it is and go from there. I said fine. So you you were referred to dr moore. And how did the process of your surgery and your treatment go I guess the the one thing i would start with was that we came in a couple of days before thanksgiving my wife and i by parents were here for thanksgiving visit and so they came with. I had one sibling and he died from leukemia when he was twenty five. When my parents heard that i might have cancer They were concerned so we came to the clinic. And all i knew at that point was one physician thought there was probably a better than fifty percent chance that i had cancer so i had not received a full diagnosis. At that point. We came to see dr more. My wife and i went in and after an examination by physicians assistant. Dr more came in. He introduced himself and The first thing he said to me is. I want you to know that we cure stage. Four cancer here all the time. Well that's great if they can hear stage for. Whatever i've got here should be a piece of cake for them. You know. and then he looked me in the eye and very calmly said what you have stage four cancer. My heart immediately dropped. My wife grabbed my hand immediately. And i remember that distinct. She grabbed my hand. And i kinda went numb for just a few seconds. I thought young. Why me is this. This can't be possible etcetera etcetera. Run to your understandable. And then dr moore continue speaking. But for a brief time i felt like i was charlie brown cartoon. It wasn't really hearing what he was saying. All i heard was wont want one but i quickly rejoined the conversation and he said this is very treatable. I think we can get it all and then we can look at what what happens. Next radiation perhaps chemo. And we'll we'll go from there. So surgery i yes in my case. A surgery was first To remove the tumor and after about four to six weeks at remember the exact dates i came back in and started a six week course of radiation which was five days a week undying for six weeks thirty courses and then at the same time. I was scheduled for chemotherapy. So my chemo is scheduled for mondays. And i started my richmond. How how does that. How did that radiation go for you. I said fun times meaning. That's all right. That's a lot of radiation and it's not a fun time right. I was warned about that by care team. They said you know. This is going to get progressively more difficult. And you know it i. It won't be that big a deal and they were right. I win and i went to my first radiation treatment. All this is a piece of cake. I'm gonna slide right through this. Not remembering the headset. It's gonna get progressively worse Radiation was difficult The the the deeper. I got into it and what i didn't understand at the time was the radiation builds up in your body so my worst days were actually radiation had had been completed and so the week afterward Was was very difficult. I just have a quick question to back up. How did they make the diagnosis. And where had it spread. It had spread to lymph nodes in my neck so in addition to removing a tumor that was about the size of the end of my thumb. The also removed thirty lymph nodes from my throat on the left hand side and five of them were affected with cancer. All right so radiation chemotherapy and then along the way you had a little trouble with infection. That's that's putting it mildly. Yes i jokingly said that. I can't get to powerball numbers to match up but the fact that when it came to Infections after four weeks of chemo it had to be discontinued because i was hospitalized had a viral bacterial and fungal infection that they discovered once i was in the hospital i also is complaining of some leg cramps and so they did some additional testing and determined that i had a blood clot that ran the entire length of my leg and i had another one in my lung. Thank goodness you have recovered. Well and i understand for my script when it says you were told that you were a miracle. That must be the reason. Why if you made it through all of that. Yes after i had come through the fifteen days in hospital I also have a feeding tube while. I was there by the way because my throat was very irritated by the radi- radiation to my throat. And so i wasn't able able to eat enough to sustain myself and so they After fifteen days. I went home with a feeding tube as well. And after a kind of rebounded and it was clear was going to be able to return to work and my life was going to be somewhat normal again One of the nurses in the chemo department said you had a lot more obstacles to overcome than almost all of our patients. She said between the all the infections. The blood clots the feeding tube. She said you're a miracle and so you took that comment to heart and decided you wanted to work for mayo clinic. Yes that's been out of work for six months. I had through the course of Bride bef- before my surgery. I was off work the day before the surgery and then i was not able to return to work for six months. Yes and what job did you apply for. I actually applied for about five different positions Because i knew. I wanted to work here. I had applied for something in marketing and a few other positions the one that I got the first call about was the one that i accepted. And that is a call a desk operations specialist or a dos Where i room patients. I checked patients when they come to the desk. And in my case. I learn how learn how to setup treatments for patients when they come back and then what happened. You were asked to do something else. Well yes i actually was. It was quite ironic. I ended up coming back to the department where i spent most of my time as a patient. Hired in radiation oncology So i'm not sure. I was told that we're actually forty. Two departments that were looking for people that were in the pool that i was placed so out of forty two departments. I ended up back. In in radiation oncology. I like i say i don't know if it was divine intervention or at just the luck of the draw i i tend to think it was the former. What do you do now. In addition to being a desperate what. We used to call the desk. Uganda to dos a dos specialist as well I had been there for a couple of months or so and my boss. My supervisor approached me. And she said jay. I've seen with our patients. Several of them have noticed the scar on your neck and et cetera. You know what did you have. and so. after some conversations with several patients Our social worker was starting to come to me and say i've got this particular patient. They're struggling with their diagnosis. Would you mind talking with them. So i met with probably two or three patients that she had set me up with and the ones that i was roaming and my my my supervisor suggests senior with the patients. I've heard what you've been doing with the patients she said. I think you have more to offer them. Then what the real curly currently utilizing you would you consider. Begin a pilot program where you would work in the charlton lobby. Which is where. Radiation oncology is and work with these patients and after thinking about it a micro second. I said yes absolutely. I would i would love to do that. And what's the patient response. It was quite overwhelming. I participated it would be good having been a patient having lived the same fears and and being frightened and not knowing what was to calm. I truly understood what they were saying. It's easy to say. Oh gee i'm not going through but until you've walked a mile in their shoes you really don't and so so many of them. After they heard parts of my story they immediately were gravitating to me. Sure what i anticipated would be a five minute. Interaction with a patient was much more than that. The average interaction was probably twenty minutes. That's a lot of job satisfaction for you. I would imagine it was extremely satisfying and gratifying to know that. I was helping them to navigate not just their cancer or radiation is some cases. I was helping them navigate male crank and all the buildings and where to go for their next appointments. Many of our patients come from come from all over the world and so many many were trying to navigate rochester and the surrounding communities and i had multiple types of questions that would come up but the one thing that i noticed was i was catching things in the in the waiting room earlier when a patient would come in a lot of times i would see them every day. Say how are you doing today. You know i'm doing okay. But you know. I had one lady said you know i. I had Surgery on my breast to remove a tumor. And i'm not sure it's healing properly. I immediately contacted her. Nurse and said xyz patient is concerned that her wounds not healing properly. She does not schedule to see you for three more days. Would you like to see her today. And she said absolutely so. The nurses actually told me. You're catching things in the lobby to three days earlier than we would see these patients. And we're helping these patients to address these issues much more quickly. They're healing faster in their healing better than had you not gone through what you went through it. It would not have been able to come full circle like this exactly. Is this the best job you've ever an in many respects it is. It is very rewarding. Mr j masters you know. They're not too many people who come to the mayo clinic. Patients actually end up working here. Not just working here but working in the same department where they were treated. J. masters not only works at the mayo clinic. He's making a positive impact on patients every day helping others through the challenges of cancer treatment. Because he's been there. Thanks for sharing your story. J. to my pleasure. Thank you for having and that's our program this week. You've been listening to mayo clinic radio on the mayo clinic. News network producer for the program. Is jennifer o'hara mayo clinic radio. I'm dr tom chives. I'm tracy mccray. Thanks for joining us. Any medical information conveyed during this program is not intended as a substitute for personal medical advice. And you should not take any action before consulting a healthcare professional for more information. Please go to our website. News network dot mayoclinic dot. Org please join us each week on this station for more as medical information you want from mayo clinic specialists note.

mayo clinic myeloma six decades fifty eight years mayo clinic news network Dr kyle tracy mccray cancer north dakota somatic symptom disorder arthritis university of north dakota tom chives myeloma cancer dr robert kyle dr kyle five years Dr carol nice sixty six years department of orthopedic
1: Bradley Schumacher  Your Podcast Host

Masters in Psychology Podcast

25:10 min | 8 months ago

1: Bradley Schumacher Your Podcast Host

"So here we are. Were downstairs in the Nice Kurt Carlsen audio video blog. Home of people I know show. It's right it's right. There's your little plug for your show. If I had created a podcast it would not have created a space to record anything. This is a good space. Actually in general. It's a good space All need to do is put some absorption tiles or something in here to get rid of anything if I say it here long enough. That's probably coming slowly piecing it together. You would actually be pretty cool. We're sitting in front of the background art. Which doesn't make much sense in this case. All right here. We are so I'm Brad Schumacher and this is Kurt. Karston San and I actually asked him to Do an interview of me because My friend and I are have been working on. A website called masters in psychology dot com for some time now and we're ready to launch and so I will be in charge of the blog posts and the interviews and podcasts and I asked my good buddy current if he could do an interview for me and in return I will be interviewed by him for his podcast. Maybe maybe not. I don't ask just everybody. Actually I do. I guess we'll have to find out. Masters IN PSYCHOLOGY DOT COM Bradley Brad. Brad Bradley Bradley. I don't know that anyone else really does yes. You can call me whatever you want. Brad Bradley whatever's comfortable for you anybody else or they call you that besides me a third of the people call me. Bradley on about The rest of them Brad interesting. I'm surprised I don't know if I'll call you Bradley anymore. So many we'll come up with some other name. Well there's fewer people calling me Bradley than there are Brad. I in the minority. Do like to be in the minority. Rela Bradley. Why You? Why are you involved in anything? That's called masters in Psychology Dot Com. What is your expertise? This is actually a good question. Thank you Threes and that I involved in this is I actually grew up with my mom. Obviously and she actually is a licensed psychologist She's been in psychology for most of my life She's also worked in different areas. She was also an English teacher for a long time I wasn't educator and I taught for about eight almost nine years at the university level at the University of Akron in Ohio and then Kent State University when I was working on my doctorate and so I'm a teacher at heart and so My friend and I wanted to start a website. Actually help those who were interested in continuing their education in psychology. And obviously once you get your Undergrad and you want to move on. The next step is master's in psychology. I really got into it because I was considering going into psychology myself. Instead I went down the communications route and broadcast communication in a personal communication and I found myself loving both fields because there is some similarities between and among those fields as well but more recently with my daughter. She actually finished her Undergrad. At U M deed in Duluth and she's also in psychology as well. She's traveling in Europe right now. And as you already know you and I are going to be traveling to Greece In about three four weeks and She's been traveling there before she comes back to the states and she wants to continue her education in psychology as well so dancer question. I've kind of been around psychology most of my life and Most of it is intriguing to me. And so my friend and I wanted to have a go to source website for anyone and everyone who wanted to learn more about. Hey where do I go? Where do I start searching For Masters in psychology and so our website does just that and we're going to have many different topics on there and the goal is for you to go to that website Have some starting points for those topics and then also the biggest selling point is going to be. I'm going to be going out and visiting an interviewing all these different Psychologists professors psychiatrists talk about their field of study. And what they're specializing in and then Basically asked them. Hey if somebody were to go into your field What would you suggest that would be one one question that I asked for everybody? But the questions are going to be different. Depending on who? I'm interviewing so I don't know if that answers your question. I think so you when you initially told me about this. I didn't really understand your involvement and maybe I didn't ask the right questions. Maybe I didn't really care but I'm learning a lot about right now that either unless you're prompted on these things maybe don't talk about it or maybe you have so many things that you're involved in. This just did this for all these years. I did not know your Zip Akron. Zip Right yes I did not know you were a golden flash author. Call See of all. These universities in your backyard was cool nicknames. And while you were there you were doing like important things. They become much smarter and wiser more intelligent. So that you could circle back to all of this right now at this point in your life and actually bring a lot to the table. Yes that's my goal so I'm I'm impressed that you remember those two would want University of North Dakota They are now something that they weren't when you were there. They did change their course for the fighting Sioux. Now they are the Some kind of kind of boring animal with the color. I think I honestly can't think of their new one because I keep I keep thinking of them as the fighting Sioux so It'll come up to us. I think to most people that have loved that university for a long time. That will never go away but the purpose of it was to put it away because you know very reasonable perspective. That was probably Nord for a long time. So right now. They're like the I don't know I can't remember the name but it might come to me. Felker. An Eagle Hawks new hot hot. Some hawks no purple hawks at something hot. I believe fighting hawks there the fighting exactly not even a specific color of hot just one. Oh boy good memory. That's good. I'm impressed see wack when you're learning psychology. I was learning nicknames of universities. And that's about all I ever learned for more than that. You know more than that. Check out your your blog posts and your podcast over a better Better otherwise website because it does mean no good right. They're not coming to me to only learning about you psychology opportunities. That's right that's right for tat. It works out. Well you explain your psychology connections and background and how this has led to the connection with you and your friend. That are doing this. But you're running like the video and the audio and the website you you. You mentioned to me that you were meteorologist. Tv meteorologist back in college sense in. What have you been doing to have any multimedia skills the Ever since U N D I actually started off in broadcasting at University of Wisconsin River Falls. That's where I started. My undergrad you get kicked out of these universities. Efforts investor no University of Wisconsin. Where we're falls. I started off my first two years in the night transferred to U. N. D. While I was at University of Wisconsin I actually did. Some radio shows with a good friend of mine named Tim and it was called the badly Bradley and timber to so and So we did some We were distracted there for a while. And I love doing that and We actually changed and I went to you in D. and Still participated in broadcasting. And I became the local meteorologists for our local TV station. There and I really enjoy doing that. W. D. A. Y. Sensation no It was actually What was it called? It was U. N. D. They still have your team. Okay campus. Yeah I was there at least one time. Involved with the production of Saint Cloud State Husky Hockey. Okay in grand forks. I do recall seeing that they had studio one is what is still known as seem like a pretty good operation back in the early two thousands when they're doing this. I'm sure it's still proved even more especially after I left it definitely even more so finally. They're able to move on from him. W often in Akron. And right right you're next. Stop then from U. N. D. I actually went to University of North Texas. Let THE HELL. University of North Texas is where I studied for my masters And so my master's in interpersonal communication was U. N. T. You remember what they are. I was thinking for. I could've have bought some more time. But Yeah you indeed. North Texas is in Denton Texas and I lived in flower mound at the time and I was working on my master's there and I completed my masters and then from there I wanted to continue my education and so that's when I went to Kent State University and I continued teaching there And then I also started teaching at University of Akron so I taught from between my master's at U. N. T to Kent State. I taught a little over eight and a half almost nine years while I was going to school as well and then eventually I came back to the city's here because I helped a friend of mine get a job at ups And he returned the favor he knew that I wanted to get back to the twin cities on so I've been on the city's For Seventeen years now. It was the bulk of your twenties and early Thirties. That you were an educator at these universities Yep Yep and then have been back here through your thirties and forties. I guess if I'm too good for him allowed to do the math out your age I forgot all you are you. You seem younger seniors. Were you have a very healthy lifestyle and appearance? And if if I didn't understand the history that you're explaining right now you could easily pass probably for younger than you are because it just you have that energy about you. Well thank you. I'll give the five dollars to you after the interview. No no so. That's that's by ten channel. Good Yeah No. So that's kind of where What led up to here and all during that time my friend and I were starting the website We met at U. N. D. So we've known each other for quite a long time and We've been interested in doing something like this for a while. And and our We've been working on it for a while. And now it's coming to fruition so Not only will show everything that I talked about before but it will show all of the different masters in psychology degree types and which schools are offering those types of degrees across the United States. So no matter you go. And then we kind of rank them. According the price affordability and then specialization We really do want this website to be kind of the the go-to website for people who are interested in continuing their education and masters in psychology. If right now prior to anyone hearing or seeing this conversation in the website being fully developed live up and running and working to its peak performance. Of what you envision if someone right now is trying to stir chin the way to. You're trying to solve this problem. That you see exists and can be improved upon. What kind of hassle is it for someone to do? You think they'll be able to do much more easily with this website There are multiple websites out there now but they don't have all the information on one website so Like I said we're going to be combining all that information on one website so it's one stop shop you'll get all the information that you need from that one website instead of having to go and search. Okay I have this question all search on this Question and then you'll come up with two or three results. Oh what about this and then you find two or three other results so you have to go to many different websites to get all this information and so our goal is to have all that information on one website and we'll Obviously tweak it and then we're going to get feedback for. Hey I love you website Brad however I wish you had this I wish you instead of having to go to such and such website to get this information. Can you add that to your website? So we're going to be open to modifying it a little bit but we've nailed most of the stuff that Most people are looking for when they're trying to expand their education. So you know my test is is my daughter. 'cause when she comes back she's GonNa be continuing going into psychology as well so getting her master's and hopefully going on for her doctorate as well so Kind of use that as a testing board and then Yeah we're excited. We're excited to get it up and running. It sounds ambitious but I just hear you talk about a previously and seeing some voice. Show me already. I can tell that you got your ducks in a row. That's right so what else would you think you would want on a website. Or what else do you think if you were continuing your education? What would you want on a website? I have looked into this a few times. And what tends to be the thing that I want to know right away is? How much is this gonNa cost me like I? I understand that the value of the continuing education is probably worth large amount of money. But someone thinking am I going to do it should I do it? I don't WANNA see price. I want to be able to look within the range of the prices that I think I'm willing to jump into it and maybe from the end up looking at higher but I want to just be able to search if I'm if I'm GonNa Start a program. What are the ones that I can do for whatever? I seem to be the reasonable price that I'm willing to take on and look at those I I don't want to look at all the options I want. I want to be able to search by that filter. No probably the location. If that's important and I'm sure there's different metrics. That would be important to me but I really think that's the cost of education keeps going up and up. If I'm GonNa do what I WANNA make sure that it's a number that I've already decided you know what I I this. This is worth it. If I can find this at a university it seems to be a place worth me going to so if you can make that easy for me you might even get me. I considered Masters Psychology. It'd be one of the things that I would do. I wish my undergrad involved. That a little bit more didn't who did. What did you own a mass communications with the radio broadcasting emphasis that say cloud state and my minor was communication studies and that's communication and psychology is is not too different but I didn't really understand the mind so much with what I learned but I understood the interacting with others? Which is you know a lot about why. Psychology is important in how we see yourselves and understand ourselves with the world. Interact with what's around us and what that does to us. Maybe that's a simplified explanation of the need to understand psychology. But I really do the more I've gone. I've decided that this stuff is interesting to me and I just haven't learned enough yet. Well that's actually interesting because you can't actually sort and By price and by state On the website when you're searching But I agree with you. Communications studies as I said earlier. does share a lot with psychology and You know a lot of cognitive. Psychologists behavioral psychologists applied psychologists whether. You're just a counselor And then talk about the difference between what is a psychologist a psychiatrist and a lot of things that are similar among all those different professions The skills come down to communication patience listening and as you know in in communication listening as is one of the more important aspects of Any type of communication whether it's public or private whether it's mass communication telecommunication and so all that comes into play. So that's why I get excited about it because a lot of it does You know Blend well with with my degrees in interpersonal communication and Broadcasting so. I didn't know that about you about the mass communication and broadcasting as well so we have way more in common than we do. We should scary. I think we do No that's good. I you know the last thing that I kinda wanted to ask you Another plug for your podcast is. How do you select the people that are on your your show at one point? Don't WanNa put you on the spot. At one point you mentioned you know I kinda decide on the people who have influenced me somehow someway and could be a minor influence or big influences at still how you using set the criteria. You're still using to kind of include people because if that's the case I don't know if I'm GonNa make it on your show you will make it and it's it's a pretty broad criteria any small influence could be worth it. It's something that either has influenced me greatly or I think. Well this didn't hit me so much but I think of other people heard this. I heard from this person or learn this from this person. They might find it influential in their life like this is. This is a bit of information or something that this person has until I met this person. I hadn't considered this thing in this way. And Its impact on me so with you when I think of how. You've impacted me in a reason. The first reason when I thought would Bradley. A good guess for my show. I am an owner of a Toyota Prius. Mostly because of you and that alone is I think we're talking about because I like that car lot and you were someone that when you learn that I was into looking into buying a different vehicle. You gave very strong pitch for why she got a press and not only did. I buy a Prius. Bought it from the same guy at the same dealership that you did so whether or not it was the best thing for me. It happened and it was because of you. So get having a conversation about that. And then whatever extends from that I think could lead into a conversation worth listening to if you had influence over me and I am a somewhat sane rational person that thinks I make good decisions sometimes. Well then maybe it's worth someone else hearing me talk to you about whatever it is that you've influenced me with keyword is somewhat so yes. I agree with you somewhat and now I am just soon after we record this a few weeks from now as you mentioned because of you on taking a different vacation different travel experience which is important to me not knowing you the way that have or not having built up. Whatever sort of friendship that we have to this point if that didn't exist. I wouldn't be going. You claim that I invite it myself. I think you might have invited me but I really don't remember. I must not have been listening that well that the day that this all came to be or just don't have a good memory regardless I'm coming with you. We're going together and it will. It'll make or break our friendship. I think I don't look at it in that terms but either we're GONNA have a great time traveling together or we're GONNA recognize. Yeah maybe we should do. I don't think it'll ruin everything. Maybe who knows? But that's what I've learned from traveling that you've really really life long lasting bonds with people or you think yeah. I travelled that person that time that was that was what it was. But maybe I'll do it again. Well now you know why I wanted to do this interview before we went to. Meanwhile WanNa do you is probably GonNa be well afterwards afterwards or running around time somewhere and we'll we'll try it out on the fly. You like Of Log type thing for spots right now that we have this new technology that we're we're trying out today some of the stuff now. It's possible before that it wasn't really possible to do it on the fly. Now I think we could. It's neat to consider and I appreciate you helping me use some of this stuff for the first time but I know it is working well in your favor as well. Yep No it's mutually beneficial for both of us. Try Out these my accent. We'll look at the sound quality and the and the video quality as well But I do want to thank you for taking the time. The interview. Me About this Website I'm excited about the website We're going to go live here within the next couple of weeks and I'm looking forward to getting some responses and then starting interviewing all these different professors. I'm a teacher at heart if I could Go back to teaching and make the same amount of money. I'm making now I would leave in a heartbeat. I'm just I love teaching and I love seeing that that connection on students eyes and minds saying oh my gosh and and and getting it I helped you know one thing. I'm getting into the weeds here. But you know one of the things in behavioral psychology talks about. You know how you can help. People applied psychology and one of the ways to help them is through. Sd SD stands for systematic desensitization. And that helps people. That's one of the ways that you can help people overcome their fear of public. Speaking is Through D. And I did that while I was at School and I hope some Uh students overcome their fear as well. And so what you and I are doing right now. Many people out there in today's society would not even consider getting in front of a video camera and doing something like this let alone giving a public speech so I feel for them and one of the ways to help them is provide that that training to overcome that fear. So I don't know why brought that up. Well that's perfect. I just I. I'm desensitized. I almost fully by doing this. Enough by creating my own podcast. That mean what you do with this. What part of this us. Who Sees it at a certain point in my life I would have been concerned now? Whatever it doesn't matter I mean either. People are entertained by it. Learn from it that they don't like it that turned off. They're not remember me. Everybody with the do when they come from podcast and they like me or eight doesn't matter but to not concern herself with this idea of something and let that limit what you do in. Your Life. That's a good hurdle to jump over and I'm I'm happy to be over in the fact that you think this whole process will help others in that way and I trust that it will believe that it will. That's another added benefit and the other thing to note is that I think the biggest thing that we're missing in today's society is my little soapbox is because of the technology that we have and the texting and the blogging and the blogs and everything else all the social media people don't have that connection anymore and When you look at somebody in the eye and you know that their understanding you that makes a huge difference verses and you can take the schooling online and everything. I'm all for that however I still come from the old school. Where if you're in class you can read the Non verbals you can read their reactions and if somebody is not getting what you're discussing then you can elaborate and you're not gonna see that or feel that If you're just doing it remotely and so You know it's going to be challenging because We have to provide all this information on the website without seeing at any of that feedback but we will see some feedback in in terms of responses And requests of Hey. I wish you could do this or I. Wish we had more information on this So that's the kind of stuff that we're looking forward to and helping the students. So it's exciting for you. Congratulations on taking a non. And imagine it'll it'll succeed in many ways and regardless just doing it is good for you and and your body and anyone involved in that in just. That's that's why I encourage everyone to do something and Houghton good good old culprit minutes. I'm Wayne most likely away the realize as possible. I agree with you. Thanks again for taking the time. Thank you already.

Brad Bradley Bradley Bradley Brad University of Akron Kent State University Kurt Carlsen Brad Schumacher University of Wisconsin Europe University of North Dakota Akron Sioux Kurt United States University of Wisconsin River Akron Toyota Eagle Hawks Ohio University of North Texas
Under a Halloween Moon

Dateline NBC

41:49 min | 1 year ago

Under a Halloween Moon

"Like that they determined that it was worder somebody can one minute takes his life you've stolen my child I found him sliding there couldn't feel a pulse I don't know anybody who had that mutate and their heart to commit a crime completely unprepared for the most frightening night of their lives it all started when a bus peaked with partygoers arrived at the Bar Heather watched bill exists dwells in people it's the one proposed to this thirty one year old elementary schoolteacher he proposed on a dance floor in front of about two demanded three hundred twenty five Jello shots that were on board that bus heather and Joel were suddenly in the midst of people in Halloween costumes on when everyone pretends to be someone else when being two-faced is part of the deal there's a feeling that maybe the rules don't apply and the during those moonlit hours we all have licensed to eat drink and be scary celebrate she had just moved here from Texas after dating long distance it was nearly love at first sight I wanted to go out with Joel. Halloween has morphed from our national salute to sugar into a coast to coast out to haul fuel party and allied under that Halloween Moon and at least one person may have used a constant to try to hide his true identity a murderer golf fishing at his France would soon be ready for marriage to just ten months after they met this smart hospital computer it tack as this security video shows there was a clown with a Bright Rainbow colored head of hand there was also a cowboy a hunter a lot where is that more true then in the rough riders state of North Dakota but in October of two thousand seven several lives would that weekend before Halloween here in grand forks Heather easterling and her boyfriend you'll love lean we're putting on costumes getting happen here and he wasn't really ready for me to say something like that to him but I was ready to say something like that that's how sure I was Joel the divorce guy who red Texas dancehall to steppers they were to be married the following year that evening inside the broken drum they were as they started piling into the broken drum the Partners were mostly well oiled twentysomethings on an all night pub crawl and they'd been fueled by is it for the person Joel went to help it was for Joel went to the back door and on the cars and found him on the ground for you realize this is the guy a week that's it yeah he was taken back when I told him I said I'm going to marry you that's what's no no heather says that when she got outside she didn't see the party bus or any of the people in costumes plant a gangster and a woman who went his Paris Hilton Joel in his Green Hockey Jersey was enjoying a rare cigar need to go out with a nice night I stand with friends he dressed up as a hockey fan wearing his favourite Green Jersey address mechanic's outfit minutes someone else would come running into the broken drum yelling to call nine one one nine one one call aw I was terrified he says there are other people who were covering up their own involvement back door was laying there with blood all over the cement nearest head could you tell what had happened to take the call wild you'll outside on the phone the party bus was getting ready to go on to the next bar suddenly someone from that bus I need help Joel had come back in the front door and said somebody got left by the bus I'm GonNa go check on them you kissed me and went outside in Montana Joel Mom and stepfather received the most terrible news parents can hear you raise your children and the things you do to protect out Joel just thirty eight left behind not only his family and fiancee but also a daughter Alexa from his first marriage a friend of mine text me and said meet us at the broken drum the broken drum casino have bar heather jol at a lot and somebody in one minute takes his life take you've stolen my mm-hmm but Joel the Good Samaritan who had gone to help a stranger and himself been the victim of savage beating remember hearing the ambulance is coming in the cops corey their sirens Joe Lovely was rushed to an er in the same hospital where he worked as a computer tech then the doctors evil exists evil dwells in people and it comes out and things like this happened me here there's an accident you know you think that it's something that can be fixed you know so I went to the hospital thinking you know he's her not then later Joel Stepdad learn more about the horrible details Lou Grand Forks Police Department call us all of them had left a calling card something found at the scene of bloody piece of a Halloween costume police thought it might be what evil had killed Joe Love Lean for grand forks police the answer Lee somewhere on a long list of potential suspects and maybe to commit a crime like that to this which is what bad luck being in the parking lot at the wrong time trying to help the wrong person the key to unmasking a killer roundup of possible suspects begins they determined that it was a murder who'd want to hurt him I don't know I don't know anybody who had that potato he been told me they did everything they could the Joe was eight hundred miles away lega following it made us wonder why is this guy crying police are just getting started Joel outside the broken drum bar in a fight that apparently no one witnessed and Joe's fiancee heather was trying just as hard to understand breaking in grand forks North Dakota and somehow ended with Joel Love Leans Deaf police were trying to figure out who use their fists to be what had happened to the man she loved inconceivable that he picked a fight with somebody else of course totally inconceivable he's not a fighter. The Penguin Penguin that was the thinking the cowboy cowboy is very difficult to deal with the clown between was crying it was would he do if somebody wanted to fight with him back away and use logic he didn't feed into anger like some men would joel was so badly beaten that the coroner could feel and hear the broken bones in his face when she touched it the cause of death Joel choked on his own blood blackjack dressed as the pig is fine at one point he had to take a call that was too loud insides we had gone outside to alcohol involved large crowds people in costume the night of Joel's murder police interviewed about eighty people still left at the broken drum in years what they heard the party bus went downtown after it left the broken drom and police are descriptions of some costumed people last seen near either one murder a year the chief of police was John this was probably one of the more challenging cases that we've ever had because police thought it was a bird's foot from someone's constant and it had blood on it grand forks police sergeant bill macky could be the penguin it was now up to police the find the killer or killers of Joe lovely in grand forks a city that averages about yeah you know at that point we didn't know how how the footplate into it or not police sworn downtown grand forks and at another ball they found Joel or that boss a clown a cowboy a penguin a gangster at a construction worker and while searching for people in costumes but the cowboy gave police a fake name a fake birth date and became physically aggressive police placed him in handcuffs even though he wasn't into us that you know he'd had a bad argument with his girlfriend that's not real clear and convincing to US police say the clown then ask for a lawyer reported the clowns hands were shaking from the Cold War from something else by the time the clown you know initially that's something that made us wonder why is this guy crying the tears of a clown it made police suspicious one officer it's almost comical it actually help police identify some persons of interest the cops would locate them before they took off those councils so if you're gonNA find the Penguin Joker arrested them you've got to find him pretty quick gotta find him pretty quick there was also an interesting piece of evidence left behind at the murder scene here's our of remorse whether they're tears of fear or may be they had onions for lunch that same night police also found the cowboys doesn't want to cooperate with us there is no record of his interview but an investigator says the cowboy asked a very interesting question if the victim suggesting that the cowboy witness that fight right on face value it would appear like that yes police also let the cowboy go but soon after they got the break they needed the owner of that bird's foot would come forward police believed it would lead them straight to the murderer one of the costumed characters they were looking for that same night we found the clown the clown was crying was what was he crying about those investigators including veteran detective Mike Shoals were scratching their heads over what appeared to be a bloody claw from a bird wearing a green shirt with the initials U. N. D. on it was wearing a university of North Dakota sweatshirt that night Joel lovling the victim brought to the police station he had dried his tears but he was not cooperated couldn't get back on the bus and then they drove downtown to another Baugh the now sober and cooperative cowboy a subject that was dressed as a penguin someone dressed as as the joker from Batman someone wearing just a yellow colored sweatshirt with a hood aw last it and what does the cowboys that the cowboy is very difficult to deal with he wants really nothing to do with us eh the clown told police he had nothing to do with any murder and was crying because of a domestic argument that night he explained in those first hours and days after the murder of Joel lovely grand forks police had been rounding up the unusual suspects were looking for bieber investigators as anything other than what we upset he's probably drunk yet it's a it's a challenge one s to determine whether those and a guy in an odd costume with a yellow sweatshirt who had also been on the boss because of that fight they told the guy in the yellow outfit he Lee's headquarters the following day they did and this time saying a different to one that seemed to get them all off the hook shoals antenna went up he suddenly realized it wasn't a bloody bird's foot next to Joel's body a lion's paw and travis because he had so much to drink on the boss in the bars the previous night that he slept away most of the next day when he awoke one of his friends share stay a twenty three year old nursing student at the University of North Dakota and today he was nursing the mother of all hangovers they told cops they didn't see Joe Love Leans murder but told of a fight outside the broken drum earlier that evening between one of their pals dressed as a hunter awesome worrisome news one of my roommates had seen that they were looking for a guy in a yellow sweatshirt so I went down to the police station bring your for a lawyer and one of the things that could say to me is maybe I saw something terrible happened like I saw somebody beaten nearly to death but that didn't straight I thought of it I mean meanwhile across town the Guy who'd been wearing that yellow costume was just waking up his name was travis is all we knew is that we had this piece of a costume detectives invited the guys on the Party bus who've been so difficult the night of the murder to come back the his face and asked how he got them Travis explained he'd been punched out by the hunter in the parking lot of the broken drum there's your answer then confirmed it had a yellow shirt on some Paulo the cops became even more suspicious when they noticed the injuries to travis he couldn't remember anything from the tiny was punched until the time he got into a cab more than an hour later and on the cops time line you're not only keeps the bloody clothing they were wearing during the murder but actually wear some of it into the police interview pasta that was found near Joel Leans Body so somebody in what ninety percent of bird costume we didn't know what it was he was now a definite personal interest and two days later they had more questions for him this time around the questions were more including a DNA sample and permission to search his apartment where his lion costume was still in the trash I give them everything remember really yeah I think that they probably thought I was conveniently drunk convenient and then you walk out of the one that's probably not too smart and there's plenty of them the caps lead travis go home but they weren't by his story you know I had nothing hide so two days after Joel Evelyn's death travis sat down across from Grand Forks Detectives Aw told detectives that he last saw Joel lovely alive and well the Guy Blocking the guy the the unhappy Harlequin we're gonNA look into getting an attorney try to stay was about to find out he'd need a lawyer sooner than he thought pointed about just what happened while Travis was in his blackout where we're very important try the detective shows noticed some scrapes on Travis's hands with because here from where's your Mike Awesome by costume on that new lead Travis gave the cops everything they asked for snus into an empire get that conversation now for free wherever you download your podcasts without them needing to get a search warrant because I knew it didn't have anything to do with a but investigators were suspicious in part because Travis said there was a knock on the door and they said there was bad news police make an arrest and the case moves into court to distraught family Willie geist here this week on the Sunday sit down podcast I had to Waco Texas get together with fixer upper stars chip and Joanna Gaines talk about turning a local and we had this piece of a costume we didn't know what it was looking for a subject that was dressed as a penguin someone assertion and you think what that's the end of it I knew things at that point had you know take a swing in the wrong direction and you know ula month after her fiance's murder Heather east-linked pain us as the joker from Batman someone wearing just a yellow colored sweatshirt with a good talk screaming my costume the way I was looking at him I saw what appeared to be a blood drop on a shoe shoals pounced that was the time when Joel Love Lean was killed you check that was refounded you think we don't we don't know what we wanted to live at age issue kind of murder he's on two sides of murder case they're screaming at him explained that his clown tears were all about a flashback triggered when he learned about Joe Love Leans death junked beyond words like someone just sucked the life out of you it tells you your life is that what you wanted it to be your dream life isn't going to happen take your cats because of the day they were interested in speaking to a man with a yellow shirt when the nursing student described his lion costume detectives the police just Lennon go the clown who's crying who is belligerent anyways policy by hostile under this strategy I can almost guarantee you that the concert themselves come on lion costume came back some of that blood on travis was his own but some of it belonged to Joel lovely and with that Pink Grand Forks detectives have been working around the clock to solve this rare murder case and then those DNA tests of travis down with a person uniquely suited to explain why this is happening new episodes of why is this happening every Tuesday listen for free wherever you get your podcasts was in the parking lot win Joel was killed and according to the state witnesses from the boss it was impossible for any there's travis in his lion costume which by this point in the evening is little more than a yellow hoodie moments later he's gone outside Joe Lovely it was covered in blood and most importantly none of the other costumes matched the PA that was left behind the crime scene murderer's the prosecution argued that Joel's last words to his fiancee heather supported that time line he made comments to his girlfriend some been so sloshed and cooperative the night of the murder the hotter gangster and the cowboy from the Party Bus Bryce Larson the count am costume he was sitting right there at the defense table prosecutors laid out their timeline using security video from the broken drum we're in his Green Hockey Jersey can be seen heading out a little later never to return the tape prosecutor said prove Travis for his arrest Travis found himself on trial for murder facing the rest of his life behind Bars Prosecutor Nancy Yon Reinforced Detectives felt they'd given their prosecutors an open and shut case with overwhelming physical evidence and we looked at Travis's close all he was down on the ground and did not seek help for him afterwards left the scene allowing Mr loudly into choke to death on his own we tested for different areas of travesties sweatshirts three out of the four samples tested positive for loveliest blood oh boy took the stand and told a story both his fans would echo Mr Larson did you ever witness the murder of Joe lovling no did you ever see it's GonNa be okay I know this is difficult for you. Traffic would get even tougher a little more than a year out the state's case Joel Love Lean a thirty eight year old man jury that would decide Travis's fate Travis Brutally Beats Joe Alive Lean every other partygoers to of Attack Joel because their party was was gone the time of the murder was not at the broken drama and Joel lovely was I I was out there helping him and then he went back out the guy who missed the bus they told the jury was the defendant nater the state US Travis his own words against him they played every frame of those police interviews in which travis claimed not to remain stain is anguish and misery is evident in his call home hi Travis it's going to be okay and prosecutors argued they could prove travis was there with Joe Love Lane prior to the murder there I witnesses the guys I'm assaulted in the broken drum parking lot when you left that parking lot where was he talking to the guy and the yellow and that guy who'd been wearing the cheesy yellow Aziz intoxicated to makes perfect sense that he could drop him aspiration eight days into the trial the prosecution called its final witness us was able to take down and kill the much larger jol with his bare hands police also say the fact that Joel had had a few drinks number the most critical part of that alcohol sodden night you don't remember between good until the jurors and arrested me for murder a nervous travis was arraigned from jail via closed circuit. TV Steve Trout Blood Spanner analyst. This is a possible physician who used photo to demonstrate that Joel's blood on Travis's clothing was consistent convenient and Nesia mom mentality are a recipe for tragedy of lean as he was punching him in his face the prosecution's evidence was stacking up against trying to stay no question he'd been in a fight as the money that later that night travis was in another fight after Mr Level and was killed travis stay laughs the broken drum on foot walked all the evidence will show travesties defense team faced a difficult task prosecutors had portrayed there with Travis standing over Joel while beating Travis was either standing right next to jewel love lean or straddling team had to address the image prosecutors have crafted was he in fact a cold blooded killer prone to alcoholic rages the prosecution's theory lot jurors her Joel's fiancee heather she relived that awful night. They're screaming his name capable of inflicting the multiple brutal injuries wall along with Joe Friedberg defended Travis their argument to the jury were traces of blood on his constant which travis was either unable or unwilling to do because of his suspicion with home if prosecutors were to be believed the defendant was a Halloween nightmare come to life just add alcohol and with the hunter before Joel was killed no question taking a swing at someone else afterwards and now he'd have to explain why to a location and the alleyway where he confronted another individual dramas threw a punch at that man and missed he then got into a cab and eighty two he was last person that we believe was seen with Mr Love Lean I made it easier for Travis he wasn't on and so the fact that a little guy comes at him unsuspecting and he's unstable on his feet who had someone else be behind this the defense has its own list of suspects you think there are other people who were covering up their own involvement in this is without any break and willingly Baron assault where were you very important try they argued was killed by the same Halloween costume partygoers he was trying to protect travelers from there were first Travis Lee Travis turns into a drunk and dangerous Mr Hyde jaw was bleeding from his face oh flurry help them explained jurors how the slightly built trapped what we never heard of it we know he's sitting unprotected in front of cops for hours answering questions without any help without any it was travis's history if they could provide anecdotal evidence that that had happened twice before a hundred times before once before we never beaten Joe Lovling to death Travis Day is not killing in the defense's opening statement attorney Peter Wold told jurors this improbable at was that the five foot seven travis could have heard the six foot three Joel at all let alone when he was knee walking own the first people rounded up the night of the murder that posse of constant guys on the bus mom mentality are a recipe client as a two-faced killer who changed personalities after he had a few drinks in him and who in a blind rage had mercilessly solution was simply impossible the beaten drunken small stumbling travis state was else he might be lying about what is it that we can look for did will help us determine when you tell them the truth which was also the police theory was that Travis became a different person when he was drinking they made that up out of whole air there whether if they had a witness that said that eighty pounds was seven or eight inches bigger then it began to take on kind of a different color and so the defense offered some suspects of its own that night now said on the stand he didn't remember crying or being upset were you shaking up you were remember this strategy I think we don't you know he was credible leaned across you don't know who does the lawyer strategy was to hammer away at the Sir Travis stay was too slight to drunk and to decent to have killed Joel lovely a man who was trying to help Travis Jones Iraq when we read the autopsy and it gave the inches and pounds of the deceased said he outweighed him by seventy five goers shifting stories are you're sure under cross examination that Cryan clown who cops found weeping and said things had gotten out of hand minute he had lied to police the night of the murder about not witnessing the fight between Travis and the man in the hunters costume the defense wanted to know what the second interview and said you think it was me we have to be you know as honest as we can next the defense tried to convince jurors just the gangster and construction worker came back outside and confront Joel and I they didn't get back on the bus which means long as the clown was in the bar plus will still in the parking lot you can see Joel leave the ball injuries to Mr Staes hands consistent or inconsistent with having delivered the blows that did that damage it'd be inconsistent arrogation DNA tests proved it was travis's not Joel's I guess one possible source of the defense introduce testimony suggesting in court the lead detective was forced to concede the police time line was flawed. We know that they have three and a half minutes to do that US leave a standard in the parking lot I think that's They beat us they beat us both Travis took the stand and concluded Travis hands would have been far more battered and scuffed if he'd used them to beat Joel do you find the travel stay was looking at a real life Halloween nightmare more than sixty years in lucky or a heartless murderer seven men and five women would soon decide attack Joel and we know the cowboy the gangster the construction worker had already gone out and the bus was still there the bailiff mm-hmm for tragedy you think there are other people who were covering up their own involvement in this what do you think happened that night I think that the cowboy the broken drum security tape proved just the opposite on that same tape was something important that they claim police and prosecutors discounted Nizhny during the most important our in his young life you lost your memory before because of alcohol right testimony one key issue was the prosecution's timeline in which the bus had gone by the time Joel was killed the bus was there at the time and had have this face off and be back on the bus right three minutes plenty of time for plenty prosecutors had argued that the party bus along with all those theoretical suspects on it was long gone at the time of Joel's murder but the defense can the clown everyone agrees that clown was on the bus when it left but here he is still in the bar after Joe Leaves have us might have gotten Joel Blood on himself when he was trying to help Joel not hurt him is appears somewhat evidence photos an er doctor who examined dial was cocky at all they were confident and they felt that they had enough evidence jurors began examining the evidence and the of people other than Travis Tang to murder Joel Travis never took the stand leaving open the question of what the jury would make of his and on the bus you know why didn't they check anyone else any anything else besides disliking you took the jury only about five remember that I don't remember that they look at us as well and as for that blood detective shows noticed on Travis's shoes during his initial concerned by what the clown told police that evening it was pretty important that he would actually say things got out of hand here and the question why only travis stays lion costume was tested for blood. Why didn't they examined any of the people's clothes that were AH confident Joe's fiancee heather was also confident of a guilty verdict it to seem like okay we have the right guy and stay with the defense team trying to prove that they conducted a withering cross examination of the man who was wearing the cowboy costume that night the cowboys after Joel was murdered and that just struck me as completely odd out of character for a young guy on Halloween night they were also yeah don the jurors we spoke with said prosecutors presented their case as if it were opening shot I would not say there's what I don't know everything but I do know that does blood was found on one person detective Mike Sholls you don't think justice was done you've been the bus was there longer than the prosecution was saying George will also troubled by the clown remember he was found crying Uh and you can see the cloud leave the bar no three and a half minutes later right plenty of time for any of the people in that crowd to have confronted The unusual move some of the evidence was destroyed dateline contacted the cowboy the gangster and the construction worker who are all on that people other than drivers yes somebody knows something Joel's daughter Alexa now in her twenties a negative impact on your reputation since the trial even Joel's parents have been divided over Travis as guilt Joe's mom believes he is most awesome himself he decided to enroll in law school he since graduated eater and is now working as a full-time attorney with the public defender's office supplied was found on one person sides convinced of their cases usually go absolutely jurors will have a surprise I love lanes murder and they feel they've been unfairly accused by the defense people talk and when you're accused of something like this I'm sure it has a physical evidence to suggest anybody else was involved other than speculation grand forks police consider this case closed and in really really even though you're looking at what basically is life and I North Dakota prison if convicted I'm nervous but did the verdict surprise and then the verdict comes in re devastated guilty I didn't understand that I still don't understand I drank hard anybody ever tell you that your personality change when you know my friends usually described as more of a happy go lucky now if he was convicted of murdering Joe Lovely after a nine day trial jurors began deliberating regrettable but you know I I didn't kill Joel he was my only friend in the park that night and sadly sometimes the horror of

Joel Joel Travis murder Joel Blood Joel lovely Joe Travis Tang US heather cowboys Joe Lovely Steve Trout Joe Leaves Texas North Dakota Nizhny analyst personality change
NEJM This Week  April 2, 2020

NEJM This Week - Audio Summaries

29:16 min | 8 months ago

NEJM This Week April 2, 2020

"Welcome this is the New England Journal of Medicine. I'm Dr Michael Bearer this week April second. Two Thousand Twenty. We feature articles on the timing of endoscopy for acute upper gastrointestinal bleeding multi drug resistant bacterial infections in. Us hospitalized patients the US burden of C. Difficile infection CD nineteen directed carty cells in refractory Mantle Cell Lymphoma and creating a framework for conducting randomized clinical trials disease outbreaks a review article on Anorexia. Nervosa A clinical problem solving describing missing the target and perspective articles on Stigma and the toll of addiction on escaping Pandora's box and on waste worry and the seven sins of medicine for more information on the ongoing corona virus pandemic including audio updates from any J. M. Editor in Chief. Eric Rubin and deputy editor Lindsey Bayden visit the cove in Nineteen Resource Center at any J. M. Dot org slash corona virus. Timing of endoscopy for acute upper gastrointestinal bleeding by James Lau from the Chinese University of Hong Kong Shatin. It is recommended that patients with acute upper gastrointestinal bleeding undergo endoscopy within twenty four hours after gastroenterologist consultation to evaluate whether urgent and dos copy improves outcomes in patients predicted to be at high risk for further bleeding or death. Five hundred sixteen patients with overt signs of acute upper gastrointestinal bleeding and a glasgpow blatch score of twelve or higher were randomly assigned to undergo endoscopy within six hours. Urgent Endoscopy Group or between six and twenty four hours. Early Endoscopy Group after gastroenterology consultation. The thirty day mortality was eight. Point nine percent in the urgent endoscopy group and six point six percent in the early endoscopy group further bleeding within thirty days occurred in ten point nine percent of patients in the urgent endoscopy group and in seven point four percent in the early endoscopy group ulcers with active bleeding or visible vessels were found on initial endoscopy in sixty six point. Four percent of the one hundred fifty eight patients with peptic ulcers in the urgent group and in forty seven point eight percent of one hundred fifty nine patients in the early group endoscopic. He must static. Treatment was administered at initial endoscopy. For sixty point one percent of patients in the urgent endoscopy group and for forty eight point. Four percent in the early endoscopy group in patients with acute upper gastrointestinal bleeding. Who were at high risk for further bleeding or death and daas could be performed within six hours? After gastroenterologist consultation was not associated with lower thirty day mortality than endoscopy performed between six and twenty four hours after consultation. Lauren Lane from Yale School of Medicine. Newhaven writes in an editorial that the results show. No advantage of urgent endoscopy over early. Endoscopy with respect to clinical outcomes or duration of hospitalization. The primary outcome of death from any cause which was used by the authors in determining sample size was lower than expected in the early and dos copy group nevertheless mortality and the incidents of further bleeding. The outcomes considered most important in studies of Upper Gastrointestinal. Bleeding were slightly higher rather than lower in association with urgent and Dos Copy. That is in the direction opposite of their hypothesis. That urgent and dos copy would provide benefit the lower limit of the ninety five percent confidence interval for the difference between urgent and early and dos copy in mortality and the incidents of further bleeding approximately minus two percentage points for each makes it unlikely that the use of a larger sample would have led to a finding of clinically meaningful benefit of urgent endoscopy. The available evidence suggests that most patients hospitalized with upper gastrointestinal bleeding need not be rushed to immediate endoscopy rather resuscitation and treatment for coexisting. Active medical conditions should be initiated as appropriate and endoscopy then performed within twenty four hours after presentation although the current trial suggests that periods somewhat longer than twenty. Four hours may be acceptable in high risk. Patients this editorialist favors endoscopy within twenty four hours. For patients hospitalized with upper gastrointestinal bleeding to avoid potentially prolonging hospitalization unnecessarily multi-drug resistant bacterial infections in. Us hospitalized patients two thousand twelve to two thousand seventeen by John Journey again from the Centers for Disease Control and prevention Atlanta multi-drug resistant. Md are bacteria that are commonly associated with healthcare cause a substantial health burden this article provides US national estimates. For six common knows a Komeito pathogens the hospital cohort in the study accounted for forty one point six million hospitalizations greater than twenty percent of. Us hospitalizations annually. The overall rate of clinical cultures was two hundred ninety two cultures per one thousand patient days and was stable throughout the time period in two thousand seventeen. These pathogens caused an estimated six hundred twenty two thousand three hundred ninety infections among hospitalized patients of these infections. Eighty-three percent had their onset. In the community and seventeen percent had their onset in the hospital methicillin resistant Staphylococcus Mercer and extended spectrum Beta lacked amaze esp L. producing interro bacteria. Aca infections accounted for the majority of the infections fifty two percent and thirty two percent respectively between two thousand twelve and two thousand seventeen the incidents decreased for Mersa infection vancomycin resistant enterococcus infection carbon. Panam Resistant Asset. Neto b-actor species infection an MD are Pierro Genova infection with decreases ranging from minus twenty point five percent to minus thirty nine point two percent. The incidents of Carbon Pem Resistant. Interro bacteria infection did not change significantly the incidence of espn infection increased by fifty three point three percent a change driven by an increase in community onset cases healthcare associated anti microbial resistance places a substantial burden on patients in the United States. Further work is needed to identify and improve interventions for both the inpatient and outpatient settings in an editorial ferrick. Fong from the University of Washington School of Medicine Seattle writes that with news on many fronts seeming to get inexorably worse it is worth pausing to raise our glasses to celebrate some recent evidence of progress. Of course there is some bad news to go with the good. The bad news which comes as no surprise is that antimicrobial resistance continues to place a considerable burden on patients in the US healthcare system however the good news is that the incidence of several MDR pathogens has decreased control and prevention efforts appear to be having some success we cannot afford to be complacent about recent progress in the healthcare setting because resistant pathogens are still too common in. Most institutions and favorable trends can be readily reversed. It will be more difficult to control. Anti microbial resistance in the community and innovative approaches are needed. Moreover The continued presence of MDR organisms and the rapid emergence of antimicrobial resistance to recently introduced agents mean that new strategies for the Treatment of Infections by MDR organisms must continue to be a high priority. We can take encouragement from the findings of Jernigan and colleagues as we now redouble our efforts to continue the downward trend in antimicrobial resistance in healthcare settings and seek to better understand and prevent infections by MD organisms in the community trends in US burden of clostridium difficile infection and outcomes by Alice Goo from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Atlanta efforts to prevent C. difficile infection continued to expand across the healthcare spectrum in the United States the authors use data from the emerging infections program which identified cases of C. Difficile infection in ten US sites to determine trends in the national estimates of the burden and incidents of C. Difficile infection and associated outcomes from two thousand eleven through two thousand seventeen the number of cases of C. Difficile infection in the ten. Us sites was fifteen thousand. Four hundred sixty one in two thousand eleven and fifteen thousand five hundred twelve in two thousand seventeen with accounting for the use of nucleic acid amplification tests the adjusted estimate of the total burden of C. Difficile infection decreased by twenty four percent from two thousand eleven through two thousand seventeen the adjusted estimate of the national burden of healthcare associated C. difficile infection decreased by thirty six percent whereas the adjusted estimate of the national burden of community associated. Cdc infection was unchanged the adjusted estimate of the burden of hospitalizations for C. Difficile infection decreased by twenty four percent whereas the adjusted estimates of the burden of first recurrences and in hospital deaths did not change significantly the estimated national burden of C. Difficile infection and dissociated hospitalizations decreased from two thousand eleven through two thousand seventeen owing to a decline in healthcare associated infections K T e X. Nineteen Car T. Cell therapy in relapsed or refractory. Mantle Cell Lymphoma Lymphoma by Michael Wang from the University of Texas. Md Anderson Cancer Center Houston patients with relapsed or refractory mantle cell lymphoma who have disease progression during or after the receipt of Bruton's tyrosine Kinase bt K inhibitor. Therapy have a poor prognosis this phase. Two trial evaluated K T e x nineteen an anti CD. Nineteen COMERICA Antigen receptor car. T. Cell therapy. In seventy four patients with relapsed or refractory mantle cell lymphoma in an intention to treat analysis involving all seventy four patients eighty five percent had an objective response. Fifty nine percent had a complete response at a median. Follow UP OF TWELVE POINT. Three months fifty. Seven percent of the sixty patients in the primary efficacy analysis were in remission at twelve months the estimated progression free survival and overall survival where sixty one percent and eighty-three percent respectively common adverse events have grade three or higher were site appeanas in ninety four percent of the patients and infections in thirty two percent grade. Three or higher cytokine release syndrome and neurologic events occurred in percent and thirty one percent of patients respectively. None were fatal to grade. Five infectious adverse events occurred. Kt X nineteen induced durable remissions in majority of patients with relapsed or refractory mantle. Cell Lymphoma the therapy lead to serious and life threatening toxic effects that were consistent with those reported with other car. T. Cell Therapy's Anorexia Nervosa a clinical practice article by James Mitchell from the University of North Dakota School of Medicine and Health Sciences. Fargo Anorexia Nervosa is a severe psychiatric disorder characterized by starvation and malnutrition a high prevalence of coexisting psychiatric conditions marked treatment resistance or no response to treatment frequent medical complications and substantial risk of death. The two designated sub types Anorexia Nervosa are the restricting subtype which is characterized by dietary restriction and the binge eating and purging subtype in which restriction is accompanied by binge eating purging or both anorexia nervosa often progresses from one subtype to another particularly from the restricting subtype to the bingeing purging subtype. Osteoporosis is a major concern in patients with Anorexia Nervosa recently a genome wide association. Study identified eight risk low side for Anorexia Nervosa that were also predictive of other psychiatric disorders as well as a low. Bmi and metabolic arrangements indications for hospitalization include profound hypertension or dehydration. Severe Electrolyte abnormalities. Me is or severe braided. Cardia suicide risk and a body. Mass index of fifteen or less several psychotherapeutic approaches are used in management for children and adolescents. Family based treatments are commonly USED PSYCHOTROPIC. Medications are generally ineffective in promoting weight gain reducing depressive symptoms or preventing relapse in patients with Anorexia Nervosa. Listen to the full text of this article at Nejm Dot. Org Missing target a clinical problem solving article by Christopher Erie Rt from Brigham and women's Hospital. Boston a fifty eight year old man who lived in the Boston area presented to the emergency department in August with a two week. History of pelvic pain on the left side with subsequent development of severe pain in the abdomen lower back and Groin. He also reported numbness originating near his own business in spreading to his thighs. The patient's medical history included mantle cell lymphoma the history of lymphoma increased the possibility of a spinal compressive condition resulting from recurrent. Disease the patient took care of a Koi pond and helped his wife with gardening. He did not recall any recent mosquito or tick bites examination. Results seemed most consistent with a poly ridiculous apathy in which there was damage to multiple nerve roots M. R. I. Of the spine was notable for Lepto meningococcal enhancement throughout the thoracic spinal cord with substantial thickening and enhancement of the routes within the CADA equation. Ah The patient was admitted to the oncology service for presumed lymphoma of the central nervous system a lumbar puncture was performed his. Csf findings were most consistent with a viral meningitis neuro. Syphilis or Neuro Borelli else's the Infectious Disease Service was consulted on physical examination. Clinicians noted a well demarcated and everything it is patch with central clearing involving the patients left Groin and anterior thigh given the associated neurologic findings lime disease appears to be the most likely explanation to unify the entire clinical picture creating a framework for conducting randomized clinical trials during disease outbreaks. A sounding board article by Natalie Dean from the University of Florida Gainesville conducting trials of novel interventions during Infectious Disease Emergencies such as the ongoing Kovic. Nineteen pandemic is increasingly recognized. As important for determining the efficacy of potential vaccines and therapies clinical trials to evaluate investigational interventions are being implemented as part of the broader efforts to control the spread of an infectious disease and to improve patient outcomes in such circumstances however it can be challenging to acquire the necessary evidence about the effects of the interventions to inform future patient care and public health planning in part because of the unpredictable size geographic location and duration of outbreaks concern about publication. Bias has led to an emphasis on the need to report the results of all clinical trials. Even those that end early with inconclusive results at the end of an outbreak a new approach to clinical trials is needed to enable reliable evaluations of vaccines and treatments for outbreak pathogens in this report strategies to develop high-quality evidence to guide the development of new therapies are proposed the authors propose a core protocol concept that allows a clinical trial to extend across multiple infectious disease outbreaks. The approach accommodates the changing and unpredictable features of an epidemic and incorporates new investigative team members into the trial over time stigma and the toll of addiction a perspective article by Nora Volkov from the National Institute on Drug Abuse Bethesda each day in two thousand eighteen. An average of one hundred eighty five people in the United States died from a drug overdose among the many challenges in delivering appropriate. Care to the nearly twenty million people in the United States with substance use. Disorders is the chilling effect of stigma. Stigma not only impedes access to treatment and care delivery it also contributes to the disorder on the individual whereas considerable progress has been made in reducing the stigma associated with some psychiatric disorders such as depression. Such change has been much slower in relation to substance use disorders. One obstacle is that this stigma has causes beyond those that apply to most other conditions. People who are addicted to drugs sometimes lie or steal and can behave aggressively especially when experiencing withdrawal or intoxication triggered. Paranoia these behaviors are transgressions of social norms. That make it hard even for their loved ones to show them compassion. So it is easy to see why strangers or healthcare workers may be rejecting or unsympathetic tacit beliefs or assumptions about personal responsibility and the false belief that will power should be sufficient to stop drug. Use are never entirely absent from most people's thoughts when they interact with someone with a drug problem. Healthcare professionals are not immune to these assumptions in part the difficulty reflects continued resistance to the idea. That addiction is a disease. Stigma reduction to combat the addiction crisis developing evidence base a perspective article 'em McGinty from Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Baltimore between nineteen ninety nine and two thousand seventeen more than seven hundred thousand. Americans died from drug overdoses to address this crisis. We must combat the stigma. Attached to addiction stigma manifests in labeling of people negative stereotyping status loss and discrimination public stigma which these authors focus on involves pervasive negative attitudes and beliefs that lead to societal rejection of persons with addiction although the evidence base for effectively combating public stigma related to addiction is vastly underdeveloped available research points to a number of principles that can guide stigma reduction campaigns. I use of person first. Language is essential for stigma reduction. Research has shown that use of terms such as substance. Abuser is more likely to exacerbate stigma then use of person first language such as a person with a substance use disorder. Second emphasizing solutions appears to reduce stigma highlighting. The availability of effective treatment helped reduce stigma associated with HIV AIDS. Third Research suggests that use of sympathetic narratives stories that humanize people with addiction may reduce stigma but the devil is in the details. Negative attitudes about addiction are inextricably linked to stigma against certain races and socioeconomic. Classes finally stigma reduction messages should emphasize societal rather than individual causes of addiction escaping. Pandora's box another novel Corona Virus A perspective article by David Morgan's from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Bethesda. The nineteen eighteen influenza pandemic was the deadliest event in human history fifty million or more deaths. We should remember it as we deal with the growing epidemic of Kovic nineteen. If public health efforts cannot control viral spread we will soon be witnessing the birth of a fatal Global Penick the Greek myth of Pandora's box comes to mind the gods had given Pandora a locked jar. She was never to open driven by human weaknesses. She nevertheless opened it releasing the world's misfortunes and plagues of course scientists tell us that SARS covy to did not escape from jar aren a sequences closely resemble those of viruses that silently circulate in bats and epidemiologic information implicates a bat origin virus infecting unidentified animal species sold in. China's live animal markets. We have recently seen many. Such emerging tzoanos including the two thousand and three bat corona virus derived SARS which came terrifyingly close to causing a deadly global pandemic. That was prevented only by swift global public health actions and luck now. Seventeen years later we stand at a similar precipice. We have reached this point. Because of continuing increases in the human population crowding human movement environmental alteration and ECOSYSTEMIC complexity with luck public health control measures may be able to put the demons back in the jar if not we face a daunting challenge equal to or perhaps greater than that posed by the influenza pandemic of a century ago waste worry and the seven sins of medicine a perspective article by Brendan Riley from Dartmouth College. Hanover New Hampshire. It takes seconds to suspect the diagnosis. There's nothing else this could be annoying. But Benign Greg's maladies common and typically resolves on its own reassuring him however isn't so simple after other doctors have scared the Bejesus out of him he called Dr Riley after the cardiologists scheduled him for Carnegie Angiography. I couldn't walk fast enough on the treadmill my sore hip you know. So they did the PHARMACOLOGIC stress test. But that was inconclusive. Too so he says. Do the angiogram better safe than sorry right. Why are they doing these tests? So I can get a note for the gym the Gym they put me in twenty three hour. Observation did an electrocardiogram and some blood tests and x-rays then A. C. T. of my head. That looked okay but then they needed one of my neck then they did an MRI of my brain and after that a neurologist came and said my tests were fine so maybe it's BP. But I better keep that appointment with the cardiologists in case something else is going on to something else. Greg was the chief information officer for to multinational drug firms so outrageous pricing doesn't surprise him nor does irrational risk aversion. What shocks him is the stupidity of the process. The Mental Laziness. The final Straw comes when Greg sees his niece a young internist at a family gathering. He begins telling her his story. But after about thirty seconds she says you got be P P V But it's getting better right. Stupidity and Mental Laziness are two of the seven sins of medicine enumerated by Richard Asher decades ago in his time. These and other transgressions were usually due to thoughtlessness and not deliberate in today's wasteful system. The distinction is less clear are images in clinical medicine features. A thirty one year old woman who presented to the emergency department in Greece with a history of blurred vision in the left eye over a four week period and progressive bulging of the left eye over a two week period physical examination revealed non tender prop toasts of the left eye polices of the left. Abdou seasons nerve and reduced visual acuity in the left. I A T two weighted Gadolinium enhanced. Mri of the brain showed a well-defined. Ovoid CYSTIC and Retro Bullbar Lesion in the left orbital cavity the optic nerve was displaced nasal and lateral rectus muscle was compressed. The patient underwent left lateral or Batata me and the system was completely removed but ruptured during surgery. The area was washed with sailing. Histo-pathological examination revealed Multiple Proto Scuola sees with central Hook litz adjacent or attached to a thick a cellular laminated e. Kinda cockle cyst membrane. A diagnosis of a High Dad's cyst caused by the Kinda Caucus. Granollers tapeworm was made thoracic and abdominal. C. T. Scans revealed no extra orbital organ involvement. The patient received a three month course of album diesel and at follow up three months later she had full recovery of visual acuity a fifty three year old man with a history of treated stage. One aim mycosis fungoides. That had been diagnosed seven years earlier presented with a two month. History of new and rapidly progressing lesions on his face and body examination of the head and neck showed multiple coalescing subcutaneous nonchalant lesions and deep furring of skin folds that resulted in distortion of the patients facial features. Also present were numerous hyper pigmented erythematosus modules as well as crusted hyper carrot. Totic tumors affecting approximately eighty five percent of the patients. Total body surface area flow Saitama tree of the peripheral blood identified a small population of atypical lymphocytes and a pet scan showed increased. Flora Dioxide Glucose uptake in the cervical acts. Hillary and pelvic lymph nodes as well as in the spleen and liver. A skin. Biopsy confirmed the diagnosis of Mycosis fungoides. With CD thirty expressing large cell transformation the patient began a regimen of bren toxic cyclophosphamide doxorubicin and prednisone and notable improvement was seen after two cycles. This concludes our summary. Let us know what you think about our audio summaries. Any comments or suggestions may be sent to audio at any J. M. Dot Org. Thank you for listening.

US gastrointestinal bleeding Anorexia Endoscopy Group Endoscopy Group lymphoma Pandora MD T. Cell Therapy drug overdose New England Journal of Medicin Mantle Cell Lymphoma Greg Upper Gastrointestinal Groin Kovic Dr Michael Bearer Centers for Disease Control

Swimming Upstream Radio Show

27:12 min | 9 months ago


"Hello welcome it's time to join DOROTHY WILHELM. Who had his very minute is swimming upstream. Because it isn't crowded there. This new show is for people who want to break away from the ordinary and live as if it mattered. Let's get going. Dorothy gets crappy. If you keep waiting well hi there. Miss is Dorothy Wilhelm and this is swimming upstream only today. We are having a very special edition of our very special show generate gap. This is the show where we look at. How generations feel differently from generations before and where the quality of the whole conversation descends very rapidly. It seems to me but we today are announced. Subject was love and marriage and sex. Now this subject was was chosen by race. Still the usual co host here. Who promptly left town. He went to Disneyland. So that's reasonable. We would who among us wouldn't Disneyland you. We had the chance. Suzanne would have injured than she would have been the host of the show anyway after. Raise it that he he left. So what we're GONNA do. Let me refresh your mind as to what we do on generation gap and we just simply look at a topic as our generation would have looked at it. Perhaps children's in other words. We try to observe what's going on and how each of us are different rather than just saying how much better we are than the other. What do you like that now? Let me I'm GonNa let my guests introduced themselves because I have this feeling I can't do it But I will say my friend. Joe Boyle is sitting here to my left ambitious my left. Isn't it okay Joe? Let's tell us a little and I mean a little about yourself and lead generation you belong to our was born Dorothy During World War Two. I was actually part of the world. War Two effort people ask. What am I dad do? During the war he stayed home. Obviously and I I grew a small effort was so I have my life divided into three chapters chapter one twenty five plus years in Business Chapter. Two twenty five years as a police officer in chapter three when I retired April fools day. Twenty thirteen I Enter chapter three for me is the arts and not try to say chapter eleven as team by so great eat. Welcome to spend a long time. We when when you were on the police force we did a lot of television shows. We did get worked on the sheriff's report as a psychopath host the new head your own show and we're on each thirty years. Yes we h nicely. We have so which. Which generation have you? You're kind of between without between the silent generation and the boomers yes they Think of me sometimes as a boomer but I was born in forty three so as really ahead of that which started in forty six so I'm Kinda silent generation. Yeah and we can start there and I naturally anyone who had no I certainly represent the silent generation as does our official program hostess Miller over here food. We're all all silence you can tell well. It turns out that the silent generation was. We were the generation that didn't protest. We tried to do everything right. We were with the girls among us. We're good girls good girls and the voice well who could understand boys anyway. But so we're kind of silent generation boomers now next next to joe is again my good friend Suzanne Bacon and she is a very famous authors and so she is going to be able to bring a lot of insight. Sadly missing up till now into our discussion Even plug one book and his generation. You thank you. I'm not going to plug. I'm German American as you might hear from accident. I was born in nineteen sixty eight over in Germany over there. I would still be considered a baby. Boomer learned that I'm obviously already generation X. over here so I'm falling in between the chairs as anywhere and I certainly was not a silent girl. I was very naughty. Probably is my parents and probably upset my dad very much at times because I was standing up for my female writes in a very patriarchal family. Well you'll tell us more about that in a little bit. Then welcome delightful. They have you here and so so really put you in Gen X. Just for it doesn't matter you don't have to stay there. It's okay so welcome and now Jim Erickson is here. He has just written a wonderful book about Mount. Saint Helen's memories of Mount Saint Helen's which he is not going to talk about on the show because that's the way you always jam lead generation. Do you think you represent while I probably fall into the silent because I was also pre boomer if you consider nineteen forty six started the boomer era I was born in nineteen forty four and I was. Guest is considered Silent growing growing up although I have might might I would have some conflicts with my father growing up. He also did not serve in the war. He was He was at home. He was a truck driver salesman in Montana. I for Coca Cola and for dairy accent. Grew up him in Western. North Dakota and so my student fall closely into the boomer category because she was born in forty seven. Can we get it can get her now? She lives in Fargo. North Dakota in temperature that as like I know is out. I was pregnant in the swimming pool of the Holiday Inn. In Fargo North Dakota. We won't talk about that anymore. We are. I've always been quiet a little bit but I I the first question I think would be looking at your childhood. Growing up down As raid. I talked about this. I think for for our generation love and marriage went together face Sinatra Atta Song. You don't have one without the other. I think that was pretty much. The attitude for my father told me kindly that he would kill me and he was not kidding if he ever found that. I had so much more than warmly. Shaken a boy's head so we're pretty careful. What would you say about your Roy up? You told us a little but what about your home early years at love and marriage not not not actually getting there see with an interview around you know because you can talk about your your show My childhood was I think a good one I had great parents and they loved each other and my mom wanted to have children so I helped her out and sister and we Grew up knowing that you have to make good decisions and if you make good decisions get good consequences you make bad decisions bad consequences and that relates back to love and marriage sure Suzanne. You were overseas. You were in Germany. Where in Germany did you live? I lived in stood guard. Done is in southwest Germany. Quite near the French border and My parents actually were not born there. They were refugees after World War. Two and they had come to different parts in Germany. And I think having lost everything also shaped a lot of their way of attitude in life As to marriage as also to their education of children and my parents very deeply in love with each other to the to the last day of my mom's life and beyond actually if I can speak for my father at least and there was no doubt that they would Stick together through a fan and that we children had to follow suit and not ruin. Our family's reputation in my parents had lost enough at already and one thing that we were to uphold was our name and our application so we better not straight at boys and girls are somewhat different even then but but I think that was pretty pretty much. You're younger but I think Europe is a little slower picking up whatever you call. We got probably yes because our school system. Let's face it as different. I think if if you look into the Vocational School Systems. Those people are leaving school at age. Fifteen sixteen seventeen. They probably entered life very much earlier and got married and had that children and experienced the first divorces unfortunately to Whereas someone who goes to grammar school a First of all starts getting a life after their eighteen or nineteen and then they tried to. They're going for careers so basically during that college time they start experiencing the deal. That is that is sex before marriage and aren't to sex marriage yet. We look at the gym. Tell us a little about about sex before marriage. No about about your growing up here so you got a whole head. I'm sorry my parents were very loving to me. My sister and A member that they never really talked too much about the marriage other the love the showed it they showed it. Maybe that was must born thing rather than talking about it actually demonstrating it in a very dedicated to each other. My mother worked as well. She got a job working for the school district and she was work in a highschool an office manager and so she was very concerned about. Us getting a good education. She was a very religious person. Insisted that that we go to church every Sunday. Her mother was also very religious. My father wasn't in fact he voided church. He never went shirts and so I kinda sense that maybe he wasn't a very religious person. I'm not really sure why he never really talked about it. Very much But I learned The value of working at ethics in Washington working. My first job was at twelve. Listen newspaper Delivery boy and I delivered the Minneapolis. Tribune I bet that was on the train at midnight arrived five hundred miles later in my town of Williston North Dakota down there and get the newspaper every morning sometimes in the cold winter. Twenty Dollars Hour. Whatever pick up a newspaper is an Anglo deliver them so it happens pretty much. We're we're all pretty Start Conservative beginning. My Dad didn't go to church either however he always identified himself as Southern Methodist. And we were kind of curious about that because he never sat in southern. Methodist Church or indeed. Any other church But he said No. He was the Southern Methodist. Because that was specifically the church. He wasn't going to be there is that now. Let's kind of let sort of sprint ahead to either high school or college when we all expected girls my generation in you'll you know whether this is the case or not. We were pretty much expected to get married by the time we were twenty. If you're not married by the time you're twenty. It was pretty bad. I made it four days before my twentieth and of course as soon as I met I I went and it was no shame or disgrace to be going to college to find a to find a husband. Idid I was going. I was in the first class of women through Gonzaga actually in spokane but when I when I identified in captured my husband I then had really no need to stay in college at that time. So I didn't get my degree till nineteen eighty-four anyway because really the important thing in those days it really was. You found a suitable fella and you got married and nobody ever ever before they were married a race said to me he was going to ask about when I first had sex. I said that's easy same day. December twenty six nineteen fifty three. Because that was we did so we were pretty solidly. Pretty Pretty You know about all there is to know about us. I think it was my kids now. My kids are rumors and I think it was not until their years that they worked out that we had a choice that there was a choice. And then nobody repeal you because that was an operative thing now joy. Joe Joyce am I enjoy to be yes until you how did how did you find? Love Marriage Your generation. Well I started the first grade Noticed girls and Lang relieved had and in high school. I was what you would call. I'd like music cars and the ladies and so I was dater and I went to school and South Seattle and then in my Junior year I moved to Peolpe Zule down South and I. It was pretty busy with a list of young ladies. I would like to date. But in my senior year I met this Young lady in Claps at eight o'clock in the morning I was kind of taken by her. My Dad always giving me the advice. Joe Whatever you do in. Oh don't rush into marriage and he got married when he was a twenty two. You know because once you're married you're married and He wasn't against it. He loved mom all. But just don't rush into it and I followed his advice Very very carefully. I attention And I got married when I was twenty. Three thousand nine one year when your past past him and So I I met this young lady. I was When I was dating I would go to a movie. Go to dinner. Have some fun befriends and then I would go day somebody else. I DIDN'T WANNA get pinned down. You're a social butterfly. I DIDN'T WANNA get down. WanNa get married early But then when I was afraid of this girl I met in the senior class because I don't know if I can walk away from her you know and so on we dated. We graduated from high school and then started dating and we did all through college and then we got married. She was anxious but that was fifty. Nine years ago matter. We've been married happily for fifty four years where the other news and they'll years k all at no. We've been married fifty four years. I still like it was the right choice. Fantastic choice well. Let's go in this case Jim since we three are kind of more or less in the same basket so to speak. Where do you come in? I love it marriage. While a fifth six grade there was just one particular girl that I really liked budge Playing Basketball Team is school basketball team on entry skull and choose the first girl that I really became interested in although I thought you know. Maybe she's she's a board level here. She's so popular Social Butterfly. She later became homecoming queen. All those kind of things but She wasn't there yet and she won the cheerleaders and we had a Good Game we lost but I scored the most points so I didn't have a ride home. her mother. Her mother offered to give me may ride home here. I'm sitting in the back seat with her. And how uncomfortable sometimes get with sitting next to somebody that you really like. Enjoy Handwrite arm around. What do we do so I was home. It was too late to do any of that stuff it so I she said that by Jimmy. Because Jimmy. Then that's fine game seen school tomorrow. I thought I blew it. I blew it here. Bush to so Later it was was on mayday and I went over to to drop off a May basket to her. While the tradition was is I understand made a labor related holiday now and celebrating Labor. But it was other thing you you let this basket of candy. Whatever and they're supposed to chase you and give you a kiss that so you may as left and she. She came running after me and I I a trip to slipped maybe deliberately. I don't ask them to heaven but then with us over the education It'd be Kinda lost touch. Yeah it should be more important than me. I think you know and but always remember even wrote a poem about her in my first year of college because the University of North Dakota branches located in my hometown the first two years I could transfer out and and Palmer biter in. The English teacher kept it. I never come back. I'm just only kid who never got this theme Paperback Reading Class. Because I was running too so emotional about this vote. Can you do a verse? Can't remember to see a manual age plus so bad but the look very many other girls until after high school. When I became more open I guess mark I introverted until you gotTA leader got ahead to get over. Because I'm a journalist. His was forced to be salts. Had To you had to force yourself do was not going to get the story and I'm GonNa get fired because I didn't get the story well so so anyway. My parents are really talked to very much about but Girls Sex all. I guess you can find out on my own in sixty nine in college. And that whole hectic era of the sixties Batman in any list. London's all this kind of stuff in in the drug air end. You know being being at a party in being highly sensitive allergic to smoke because my dad had been camel smoker for so many years that secondhand smoke got to me but I sure liked brownies that somebody as well guys are going to believe this but we actually have talked. We have hardly got to sex. Ed Week this this has been. This has been pretty fun but we didn't even get to tell you I. I just WanNa talk talk. No we'll continue next month is what we'll do clearly. We're not going to be able to do anything but you you tell you and I should tell something. I thought provoking because then they'll have to think it and come back. You got me to go first or you go first now. I want you to go. I think he's quite taken with you now. thought provoking a well. I was raised in Victoria. Way Let's let's face in. That was very tough for me because I saw all those girls around me as on a seemingly different level They were liberated and while I started liberating myself when I was I guess. In around fifth grade at was when we got more politically educated in school when we detached from from our singularly at home opinions and Also as to sexual education. Whatever I mean. My parents were liberated as much as possible when it came to telling me about what what was physically happening When you got attached to a boy and what you had to be aware of where to take precautions and they were ready to support me. They are but I was not to do this. I was only to Have my first relationship with the man who I was going to marry and I was to basically live up to the role model that my mother was putting out not that she ever said she was the role model and and she wanted me to do that. That was my dad who did that and So I was On the other hand I was supposed to make the best out of my education. I have a career and so here I was. You can't have a career without being kind of liberated as a woman so I was in between the chairs as always and grade five. I fell in love with with a classmate of mine and we were considered a couple though. Mind you we never touched hands Only when we were playing cards or whatever no kisses it was just a given that the two of US belonged with each other in last year. Well and we are going to have to wait for next month to hear the rest of story because the time has come yes. I just WanNa say that when we got married I was totally uneducated that we actually bought a copy brand new book Bestseller called the joy of sex. I'd show none of you have seen it but my brand new husband and I went through page by page was delightful and that that wasn't a bad idea. You Know Anyway I. We all came to our own way. Was what it was. This has been a lot of fun I had but we really hardly. Don't look at me like that Joe Attention. Do your word policemen's as anyway. So I WANNA thank Joe Boyle for being here for having me as wonderful seeing next month the Suzanne. I wait for you to thank thanks to Suzanne Bacon and she enjoyed a column together. That's the suburban times called and double take anybody can find it at anytime at sometimes dot com. Yes that's true. Okay thank you for having me your anytime idea and Jim Erickson good. Have you got safer yourself to that? I'm very happy to be here. And I appreciate your your your insight and your Williams to having and to end my library in your your your your writing skills and Your inspiration to me as as a writer if we're all we're I think we're all riders anyway but that's probably explains a good deal of this. Don't you think anyhow so much fun we'll do it again? And in the meantime you can find us anytime on. It's never too late DOT COM or. It'LL BE RADIO NETWORK. Dot Com and. Of course you know s obese ends for clunky old broads. All the hosts are women over fifty except me of course. Oh well anyway until until next week. This is Dorothy will help by now. Thanks for listening to swimming upstream. Dorothy WILHELM WE'LL be back next week with more gray casts great ideas. No telling what he'll do next. Be prepared if you just can't wait contact or theodore swimming upstream facebook page or on the web at www. It's never too late DOT com. This is the irrepressible sad longden.

Suzanne Bacon DOROTHY WILHELM Germany Jim Erickson Joe Boyle North Dakota Joe Disneyland Southern Methodist Coca Cola Europe Fargo Holiday Inn Joe Joyce Basketball Boomer Jimmy Fargo North Dakota
Andy Strickland  Blues and NHL Season

Scoops with Danny Mac

18:01 min | 8 months ago

Andy Strickland Blues and NHL Season

"Hit a home run and get pre-approved for your next refinance or home purchase at the home loan expert Dot Com. Enjoy the PODCAST. This is cardinals broadcaster and Chinooks Shopper. Dan McLaughlin Chinooks would like everyone to know how much they appreciate our community during this very difficult time. They know this is an easy for everyone. And that's why schmucks is working around the clock to make sure they handle the needs of our community. Chinooks wants to say. Thank you for your support your patients and you're never quit attitude as we will all get through this together. Chinooks appreciates our community and they want all of their shoppers to know how much they mean to them. One of the top reporters in the NHL. For many many years. Andy Strickland and we're lucky as blues fans to have him report on the Saint Louis Blues here locally like everyone else were shut down. We're locked in and we're trying to figure out if there will be sports at some point this summer and always great division with you. It's been too long. How you doing Danny Mac? No complaints whatsoever. Matt always good to be with you. Hope you're staying healthy over there. Yeah I am how about you. You've got three little kids right. Yeah no it's crazy. I mean listen everybody's experience with US different. You know it was talking to somebody today. Who you know. He has a junior in high school. Who's missing her school prom coming up this weekend. So No. That's emotional for the kid. He's got a daughter who's a junior in college. They headed drive there today. Take up her belongings and bring her car back so again. Everybody's dealing with his differently. My kids are younger so you get their school work every single day. You're essentially home schooling them. And then I have friends who have no kids or who have older kids who are basically loving being corentin and not having any social interaction whatsoever so I think the experienced probably different for all of us but one thing we can all agree on is we want to get back to our normal lives and hopefully get back soon. Absolutely you're based here in Saint Louis but so well connected throughout the National Hockey League The Blues would great chance to defend the cup. So there's so many blues fans that are curious about an NHL season. So I'll ask you. We got good words out of Wayne Gretzky yesterday. Saying Hey I think it may happen over the weekend What are your thoughts on the potential of NHL SEASON? I agree with Wayne because I do believe that. The National Hockey League is going to do everything in their power to play games this summer and award a Smelly Cop Danny Matt. I mean But the reality is the. Nhl has been a little say in the situation. We all know what's up to the health authorities Now the government obviously is gonNA steer which direction this goes in and you know if the National Hockey League gets a green light to play. I think they're going to do everything in their power to get. You know the players back on the ice and You know what that looks like whether you have a tournament you just have postseason dance play. You go straight to the playoffs. You finish out the regular season. Do you have every team? Play the same number games. Whether that's seventy four games. Seventy six games very unlikely you would get to eighty two so these questions that we don't have answers to and I think the questions are the answers to these questions really depend on how much time you have left. I think two rounds of a best of five and a half two rounds of a best of seven in a Stanley Cup playoff format Talking to people around the League to any they truly believe you probably need at least minimum six weeks to get that done. And that's for a best of five in the first two rounds not even getting straight into a best. Which is the traditional National Hockey League format? So again. They do have some runway some time on their side. They've already said publicly. They're willing to play deep into the summer. Even if that means into early portion of September. We're willing to do that. Obviously are hoping we see it in terms of how they would do it for me being a baseball guy. You know a lot of talk of quarantining in Phoenix or in down in Florida spring training sites what would the NHL do well. There's been talk about neutral sites and the University of North Dakota has been brought up. Buffalo New York has been brought up New Hampshire has been brought up. Saskatoon up in Canada has been mentioned as a city and even talking to bill. Daley the the Deputy Commissioner of the National Hockey League and he told me recently that you know ever since that reports surfaced about being willing to play a neutral sites away from traditional NHL markets. He said a number of cities volunteer to say. Hey you can come play here now whether you play within plane without fans honesty looks like We see hockey as soon as this summer. I think most people would agree. It'd be hard to play with fans rallies packed stadium You know you talked to Doug Armstrong from the Saint Louis Blues General Manager. There you know. He says he preferred to play Games. Here in your own. Nhl Market even. If it's with our fence you know. He looks at sports as a luxury. I think a lot of us do and even if it's with fans if you put a game on television Danny I think just for that two and a half three hour period of time. I think fans will take that even if it means. They can't get down to the arena and watch it live just to see your Saint Louis Blues. Whoever your favorite team is playing a A meaningful game and watch intense. Nhl Hockey or playoff hockey. I think people would take that. It's not going to look the same and we're not just going to run right into a situation that looks like you know what we saw. Prior to the corona virus taking over this country it's going to be has to be different We're GONNA have to ease our way into getting back to normalcy if you want to use that word and if it means playing playoff games this summer without fans I would think most fans would take that and I think players have even changed their view on that. Danny I mean you you would appall players you know several weeks ago. I think most players say that's insane. Why would we do that? Play Games without saying but make no There's there's no point in doing that whatsoever. I think now you players. They realized that maybe their only option. I think they want to get back on the ice and I think they'd be willing to do that. I was going to about to ask you that. What do you think the appetite is for for those at and correct me? If I'm wrong the the players did get paid for their full regular season But what is the appetite to play hockey without fans in their opinion? Yeah they WANNA play and their last. Paycheck was due on April Fifteenth. And as it sits right now. They helped Jack and we'll see what they do with it. It could go back into escrow which would go towards duck hockey related revenue pot which determines what the salary cap is every year and how much money the owners get versus. How much money the players get. I think the players realized that if they want to get back to you know increasing revenues and you know at minimum keeping the salary cap flat heading into next season. I think any hockey certainly help in terms of reaching that goal and adding television revenue and whatever revenue they can add towards the overall part of HR so You know I think players are our understanding of that The National Hockey League Players Association has had pretty much weekly calls with membership Colton PERICO is the The player Reps Saint Louis Blues. He's been on both calls. Any player in the League can jump on if they want and so they're trying to educate and keep guys as informed as possible But I think they understand the circumstances and the realization. You're unlikely GONNA play with fans but again the CAP will certainly be affected if they don't find ways to generate revenue in one way to doing so is to play into this summer in terms of how the revenue split for postseason hockey. How does that work between the owners and the players while for post-season obviously the gate revenues? Big Part of that. I mean you look at the blues last year. You don't ticket revenue Sweet sales you're not gonNA have any of that so right now it's television revenue and in terms of how it's you know Divvied up I mean that's to be determined. That's where the two sides certainly speaking right now In terms of the NHL in the National Hockey League Players Association. I mean they're getting down And discussing a number of things Dan including extending the current. Cpa which now is the perfect time to do that. You know outside of just dealing with some of the micro issues in terms of what to do with his final paycheck where you're going to do moving forward here the short term. I think some people with the GOP a are really pushing along with the National Hockey League. I should say To really look at some of the bigger issues some of the macro issues which is to find a way to reach agreement long-term and get this. Cva finalized But in terms of what playoffs would look like Dan? It's tough to say how much revenue one side would get versus the other because everything has been determined in terms of what hockey's GonNa look like in your opinion. Is your drop dead date to make this happen for the NHL? Well I pay. I'm glad you put it that way. Because my opinion I think you know talking to some people. They think they got to have an idea where things are at sometime between may fifteenth. And before you get into the real late portion of the month of May sometime next month we're going to have to have a firm understanding of what that date looks like I think internally they probably have an idea right now I mentioned that six week timetable. That doesn't include a two or three. Maybe even four week training camps get back get guys back on the ice and get themselves back into hockey condition. Not Hockey shape. I think there is a different. I think it comes down just to get back into to condition. You know I was talking to animals about that recently on our podcast and now he's guys stay in hockey shape. He said listen. I haven't played in several years but I still find myself in hockey shank. Am I in condition to go play? Nhl Game no but from a string standpoint. You don't necessarily lose as much as people might think you would But it's all about getting back into conditions. How long does it take You Know David. Back didn't skate for six weeks Prior to being traded to the Anaheim ducks from Boston at the trade deadline. Basically told him to go home and to sit there until they find a trade partner and he wasn't allowed to skate he didn't escape for six weeks and then. I think it took them somewhere around six days to skate and get himself ready to Klang in the NHL game which you get a couple times before this NHL pause so it probably doesn't take players as long as some would think but I would think at least two weeks of training camp would be realistic so again. Maybe we're talking eight weeks and to answer your question. I think. Sometime between may fifteenth and may thirtieth. We're going to have to determine what that drop dead date looks like and you mentioned at the training camp. He thinks it would be only about two weeks right. Yeah I'm not so sure. You need much more than that. I mean. Obviously guys skate. Throughout the summer they come in training camp in shape but you see now danny that. Nhl teams play preseason games after being on the ice for just two or three or four days in right into a preseason schedule now the differences you have go to training camp roster so you have a lot of younger players players who are going to get shipped off to the junior teams are maybe to the miners who make up a good portion of these preseason rosters at least early in training camp so unless I'm getting to are you going to jump right into. Nhl Action again intense NHL action if he goes straight into the playoffs. I mean we're talking about intense. Nhl Hockey. You're GONNA need some time to get guys geared up and ready to play at that level from the Blues Perspective. Doug Armstrong is still busy this last week. A couple of extensions. What do you think that means for Jay Bouwmeester number one number two? What does it mean for Alex Petra Angelo and his future in Saint Louis? Well potential start with that. Because he's the bigger fish obviously and probably the number one unrestricted free agent in the National Hockey League. If it reaches that point I think in the case Petro Danny along with some other players if you WANNA put him in that category. I don't necessarily put Tarot Hall in that category of People Might Tori crew as a defenseman from the Boston bruins. Who has a ton of upside offensively? It has been a good player in this league for a long time Those are some of the big fish that you're looking at. But I think for some of these guys including portraying though. I don't think there's any eagerness to sign anytime soon. I think if you're petro yourself hey listen. We're GONNA play again this summer and I'm on a contending team. What's my value if we win the Stanley Cup again? What's my value? All of a sudden I win as the MVP The Stanley Cup playoffs. Then how does my value change versus where it is right now even though he still considered. Probably the number one unrestricted free agent to be in the National Hockey League. So I don't see some of these guys signing. I think some of the players that you've seen sign already at least specifically here in Saint Louis Marcos Candela. I mean here's a guy who was on his third team this season. I don't think he ever saw for your contract falling into lap. That was a no brainer for him. That was a team to go ahead and get that done. And then you have you know. Sandy blamed who was a young player? Who's a restricted free agent? Relatively easy contract to get done. I think contract like Vince done for example. Much more complicated. Even though he doesn't have arbitration rights he may want a bigger number off the bat and the Bluest Navy looking to give him and it may take some time to to agree on a on a contract with him and let sabre portrayal. I think he's going to be as patient as possibly can. And certainly won't look to sign right now. Jay Bouwmeester I think most people would agree It's very unlikely we see him play in the National Hockey League again. He's accomplished everything you possibly could accomplish as an NHL player. And I don't think he has his eyes set on returning and playing in the National Hockey League. This is the final year of his contract. Anyway and the fact that the blue just went out and resigned Marcos Candela obviously points to the fact that the days of of Djabel being a NHL. Claire Most likely are done. Although if you come back this season he still technically on a team and still be around the team and certainly get a ring if the blues win another Stanley companies. Still part of the team. Even if he's not in uniform building in terms of Petro Can they fit him under the CAP? What will the Catholic like if we come away with no hockey in this in this Summer you listened last been questioned. Yeah I I've talked to players aged about this. Of course will ask you leaks Danny and the presuming thought is that the salary cap is going to stay flat at eighty one and a half million dollars moving into next year the projections or for it to go up as high as eighty eight million coming out of the GM meetings Couple of months ago now in Boca Raton Florida just right before the. Nhl went on pause Even most people believe they would never get that high but that was the rings that built daily set out. Are you know report publicly coming out of those? Gm meetings in Florida I think most people are are are assuming that it's going to stay flat at eighty one point five. Give or take a little bit either northbound or just below but it's not gonna change much more than what we saw for this season so that's GonNa make things a little bit more tricky. I mean that's where you know in the case like portray Angelo How he could be affected. I mean teams that have payroll flexibility could be teams that you consider as non-contenders rebuilding teams teams. That don't have a chance to win. In the short term how attractive would he be to those teams contending teams teams that have a nucleus of players who can get it done and wind today may not have the ability to go out and get a player like Alex betraying? You can certainly move pieces around and make trades and creates space but again. That's where the challenge comes in right now for Alex mccranie. He wasn't dealing with a handful of weeks ago that he will be dealing with now. Moving forward I am of the belief. No Dan that. If you're a top player you're gonNA find a way to get paid. Even when we came into the system back in two thousand five two thousand six. Most a player can get paid is twenty percent of the salary cap. That's only happened once and that came back in two thousand five two thousand six coming into a new system when everyone was saying. These guys aren't going to get paid and that was Brad Richards. He got a big contract. Twenty percent of the salary cap at a time when when people were saying these guys are no longer than make big time money so I still think there is plenty of money to go around for a dollar gallons portraying. He's GonNa get paid if not here in Saint Louis certainly somewhere else. Final question about him then is is he more apt to take. Maybe a little less to stay here with a family a wife that's from here in law's from here triplets editor here born here. Is He more apt to do that? Or is he more of the kind of guy that says you know what? I'm this is my bite at the apple and I'm going for the biggest apple that's out there. Listen it's a great question. I mean he's represented by the make a comparison to baseball Scott. Boris of the National Hockey League in terms of his agency through Newport Sports Bay traditionally like to get the most money for their clients I look at it for Alex Portray Angelo that if he were to stay here. I mean you can certainly make the argument that he'd eventually find his number hanging from the rafters have a statue outside of the Enterprise Center. He'd break historical records semi historic records burning for. Arcos all time games played as a member of the Saint Louis. Blues said Steph matter to him know. How important is that to him? That's the biggest question I mean. Does that matter to him and if it does then. I think you'll find a way to make it work here in Saint Louis. It's not as important not to suggest that he doesn't care her He's GonNa Look Outside. Saint Louis but what I am saying. If he does stagger Saint Louis He's GonNa have opportunities it probably wouldn't be made available to him with other teams just based on where he'll stack rank historically as a member of this organization being the only captain in the history of the organization to ever you get the lift the Stanley Cup You know I mean. How important are those things to Alex Rodriguez? Well we're GONNA find out near future. You're the best buddy great info really appreciate it. You're so well connected and stay safe. Stay healthy and I'm hoping next time we visit we're talking about what's going on on the ice looking forward to it daddy hoping well man. Thanks for calling. I appreciate it as always the McLaughlin here to tell you about the hometown. Automotive family I trust the most the loop US automotive network and you know they are saying Louis loop us has been a part of Saint Louis over seven decades. They're proud to support Saint Louis in the surrounding areas with cars youth. Sports and charitable efforts. Fourteen brands ten locations just visit views dot com to start shopping today wes.

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Tedy Bruschi and Kenny Golladay

The Adam Schefter Podcast

41:18 min | 1 year ago

Tedy Bruschi and Kenny Golladay

"Plants Capture C._O.. Two what if we could help industrial plants capture to think how we can lower emissions more and more scientists think carbon capture is key to reducing co two emissions globally. It's one way Exxon. Mobil is helping industrial real plants be more like plants. That's the unexpected energy of ExxonMobil on this week's Adam Schefter podcast and it fell teams are reporting to training camp but we're going to visit with the former Patriots linebacker in current E._S._p._N.. Analyst tedy Bruschi who suffered a stroke on July fourth and who now is recovering and recovering quite well he has not spoken about the incident or what awaits him in the future but for the very first time publicly Bruschi risk does that here also be joined by the lines third year wide receiver who is already become a young star in the N._F._l.. Kenny Golladay but I the great the inspirational Tedy Bruschi now we bring in my friend my colleague Tedy Bruschi who I will add I have not spoken to since he suffered the stroke on July fourth. We've exchanged text but actually have not heard his voice until all right now and so like many of the listeners all listeners everybody is wondering how Teddy's doing and so we now turn to my friend to ask that very question Teddy. How are you Adam? I'm doing well. It's good to talk to you <hes> yeah. I had the stroke on July fourth but I'm doing very well now. <hes> recovery has gone well. <hes> I've just the amount of support that I received from so many people my New England Patriots Family My E._S._p._N.. Family all of my friends and loved ones. It's been tremendous and <hes> just WANNA use this opportunity at the beginning to thank everyone for their prayers and well wishes they've helped. I'm doing well and happy to be here talking about it so take me back to that day teddy you had searched great recognition skills. What do you remember about July fourth and what was happening? What were you doing just bring me back to that day? What happened July fourth was I went for a run which I've been doing a lot lately <hes> recently compete completing the Boston marathon and sorta just running to become a part of my routine lately so long phone run down to the local high school and I told my wife and I told my kids to meet me down there so it's about three and a half miles and I ran down there and they bet me down there in about twenty five or so minutes to work out themselves and I was going to work out my kids heads down on the football field so I finished the run met my family had my boys with me? We were walking out to the football field and that was setting up to work them out and put them through some football workouts because they're both gonna play football in the fall and all of a sudden I my left hand just started feeling weak and I was trying to set up and I had this equipment bag with me and I was pulling up the equipment bag from the ground to myself myself and my left arm wasn't coming up and the bag got sort of caught up in my hand and put it back up and my left arm came up and it was I could see it in front of me but I couldn't feel the arm and I don't know how God up there so I grabbed my why are and I couldn't feel it at all and I had lost the use of my left arm and Adam as I was holding my hand and squeezing my fist to try and get feeling back in I said <hes> something's not right. I mean what's going on are very exact words that I said what's going on and those words didn't sound the way they sound right now the way I'm telling you I flirt you couldn't understand what I was saying so I said what's going on but imagine someone slurring them so I turned to my wife then and she looked at me and I said something that's right something's not right and she couldn't understand what I've seen and she looked at my face and the left side of my face drooping and we immediately knew what was happening. I mean I spent the last fourteen eighteen fifteen years advocating for stroke awareness in the warning signs and we knew this was happening again after fourteen fifteen years since my last stroke in two thousand five so we called nine one one right away in the ambulance came to the field and pick me up and then I was off to the hospital if you hadn't recognize it right away what could have or would have happened well. The stroke could have gotten worse <hes> various things <hes> you know like I'm saying it could've gotten worse. I see some people try to shake it off. which is you know the wrong thing to do? You recognize the warning signs right away. Call Nine one one. These are classic stroke warning symptoms that I was having <hes> if you get to the hospital in the right amount of time I know I've said this so many times there are there are drugs that can be applied T._p._a.. With which is called Tissue Plasminogen activator. It's a clot buster basically if they determine you have an schemic stroke which is which is due to a clot symptoms can be reversed. There are various techniques where they can go in through the groin with a grunt catheterization processing glove act literally go and grabbed the clot through a procedure and freer for your body howdy from the stroke a lot of things that can happen so as that's happening and I'm in the hospital on my way to sturdy memorial and Attleboro. I'm thinking about these various things that the protocol that's going to happen. Once I get to the hospital it now. What happened was as I'm thinking this an Indiana ambulance and I hear the sirens and Heidi? My wife is sitting in the front of the ambulance. I started to feel my fingers again. I started to feel my fingers. I and my hands started to come back so this is about half an hour or so. After the symptoms had started so immediately we got to the ambulance we call nine one one. I started to feel my fingers again. On the way to the hospital. My speech started to clear up <hes> so by the time I got to the hospital went through the cat scan went through a lot of tests the symptoms that actually cleared themselves in I was feeling much better but still they kept me overnight the hospital for observation because sometimes when you have events like this they can they can possibly be a sign of more to come. We're your boys there at the time. Did they see this. Was this something that petrified them. <hes> they were there <hes> as you. I mean my oldest. That was their my middle son. REX is seventeen Dante's fourteen so you can imagine what they're thinking in their minds as a as a young a young man sort of looking at their her father going through these things but they've been to a lot of Teddy's team events Teddy's team is my foundation that raises funds for stroke awareness and research and I've sort of pumped the warning signs into them. They have great awareness on show awareness also so they sort of knew what was happening. We all sort of knew what was happening. We all definitely knew what was happening but still you know they could see that. It was still worrisome for them but they were very very very very brave. Get leading the ambulance guys down to the field. You know they house very proud of them on how they reacted. How did this compare to the stroke that you did suffer in two thousand five weeks after you want your throat soup both the Patriots when we're thirty one years old well this? This recent shook that I had that characterize as a T._i.. It's that's a transient ischemic. Attacks sort of a mini stroke <hes> if the word mini strokes go together but but <hes> the one that I had in two thousand five was a little bit bigger and it involved complete left side sorta deficits all the way down to my foot. <hes> loss of vision was a thing for me back back then because I lost the left field division both my eyes so it was different. They were different signs but <hes> that stroke wasn't characterized as T._I._A._A.. And the symptoms last lasted you know I would say months after that instead of just basically probably an hour so right now. Are there any effects that you're feeling from the stroke that you suffered early. This month or your are good to go. I'm doing well so <hes> yesterday. I went for three point five mile run. Wow <hes> I've been cleared for activity and yesterday I actually went for the same run that I did on the day of my stroke really strong so I figured it was something I wanted had to do. So I ran down to the high school again and I literally got their walk down to the spot where it actually happened. <hes> had a little bit of reflection had my wife come pick me up which was supposed to happen that they also and on my phone. I felt like all right well. That's behind me now. When you say that you have a little bit of reflection what are you reflecting on and what are you thinking? I think my reflection is just that of. You've been blessed because I mean I've I've talked to my neurologist. David Greer who's been with me <hes> ever since my first stroke back in two thousand five and you know we've we've sat and had conversations about the two strokes that I've had ad in here I am still deficit free and I've recovered fully from both of them and I'm very lucky and very blessed to be able to say that because stroke is the number one cause of debilitation in the United States. It's I mean so many so many people have had strokes aren't the same afterwards and here I am after my first one. I was able to come back and play for years in the N._F._l.. And then after this one I mean I'm sort of back. I'm not there's no more football combat comebacks from me at them yeah all right but I can still come back and my doctors told me hey clear for activity. You WanNa run and go run. You WanNa do various things you can <hes>. That's just not play football anymore. Why do you why do you? Why do you think what do you think that you've been able to bounce back? The way is that because of the way that you kept yourself in conditioning. You're in great shape. You Look Great. You eat healthy you do the right thing. Yeah is it is something to do with that well I. I wish I could give you a definitive answer that answer on that but I'd say the thing. Is You know I mean blessed and Lucky is one thing but I always <hes> I've gone out and spoke about and preached about shook awareness and nutrition and education and the awareness science and all of that fitness levels and why I constantly keep myself in great shape is because you know I play defense in the N._F._l.. I was a linebacker so I sorta still we'll do that right now but just in a different way I think the better I run better. I keep myself fit. It gives me the best defense so if anything can happen it was it's ironic because I was just not event a few weeks ago and this is what I'm talking about. Why why I try to eat the best that I possibly can and try why I run and try to stay fit because if something were ever to happen again I'd be ready and then July fourth comes around? I have a stroke at night. I don't know how I'm able to overcome and be back in and be able to do things and still run play football like I did after the first one but being in good physical shape definitely definitely helped me. I believe now you've become one of the foremost advocates for stroke doc awareness. What would you tell people about being aware that they're suffering stroke? <hes> would just talk about learn. The warning signs and that's all that I've been is for since my first stroke in two thousand thousand five is I didn't know I was having a stroke when I had it <hes> the loss of vision the numbness down the left side of my body for my first stroke back then we were still howdy and I were still trying to figure out what's going on. We're making calls <hes> <hes> we don't know what my body's going through but having these wearing awareness science there's an acronym. It's called beef fast. Okay be fast. The B. is for balanced balance issues. <hes> the is for eyesight. The F. is for facial droop group. The A is for arm weakness S. for slurred speech and then the T is for time. If you recognize any of these symptoms be fast call nine one one get to the hospital as quick as quickly as you can because there are things that they you can do to save your life in reverse the effects so awareness knowledge is all something that I'm about and it's all something that I've been preaching for well over a decade now which is unbelievable you would you ever imagined growing up the way he did that. You would become the spokesman and this model for how to recognize and deal with and come back from strokes is pretty incredible. I had no idea I had no idea what my life was going to be like <hes> even. He played in the N._F._l.. For the Patriots <hes> they have a great Patriot Charitable Foundation. I'm like well that's great and I participated in it when I played for them but nothing really struck me as being passionate about to where how I could give back in terms of off the field but having this happened directly to me. It was sort of something to me where it said this is what you have to do. You need to help people to provide the information about stroke awareness and even the second event. It is sort of telling me how my life is supposed to go and what I'm supposed to do. A lot of people have various things they do off the field but for me directly it's about stroking. It's about stroke awareness and you know I don't know if I'm the face of stroke you know but <hes> I have a two-time stroke survivor now and I'm proud of it and I'm happy to be talking to you about it and just just continuing to spread the word and the knowledge and awareness see. I can't imagine that there are too many two-time two-time stroke survivors who were forty six years old. Who had the history that you did? This can't be a common occurrence he I haven't I haven't known I remember I remember after my first one too. It's <hes> I asked a doctor or the number of the guy that's done this before. In terms of coming back to play football. I was on the phone with him. I said give me the number so I can ask this guy out millions of questions that I have and he said Teddy you'd be the first so coming back to play in the N._F._l.. After my first stroke and having you know an operation on my heart close a whole <hes> a lot of things to where a lot of doctors referred to certain strokes as the one that Tedy Bruschi had and that he came back to to be able to play in the national football league and you'll be okay because there's a lot of emotional and mental hurdles you have to overcome. I can talk to you about this in terms of being a stroke survivor because you sort of feel messed up inside like something's wrong with you but I felt that immediately after I didn't. I didn't think it was possible to play football again. <hes> there was a lot of emotional healing that you have to do so. It really warms my heart. Sometimes when I've heard multiple people people come up to me and say my doctor told me I have the same thing you had and so. That's a if that's something that I've I've meant to do to sort of be the example of of you. It is possible to live a normal life after stroke. I'm proud to do with Adam. Do you get more praise and appreciation from people for that or for your rolled back in the day with the Patriots <hes> more I guess more feedback did did you hear more about the strokes you hear more about your football days. It's it's a lot I mean now. It's it's not just you know what I did when I was with the Patriots or what I did as a stroke survivor but also you know people see me on. I mean there's the E._S._p._N.. Aspect of my life also being an analyst so it's it's. I guess it's almost in threes in terms of people come up to me and I do think okay. What's he gonNa WanNa talk about because there's so much more than just football in my life? I is this guy. A Patriot fan is he upset the or upset about something that I said T._v.. Or stroke survivor my stroke so that's sort of goes through my mind you know my interactions and that's okay because I'm I'm open and proud to talk about all three of them but I just to be honest with you most meaningful when someone comes up to me and says and I get this because of <hes> I guess the platform that I have they can. They know where I am. They can contact you somewhere and say listen. I didn't know what this was was a and you say the the work that you've done saved my mom's life or my life because I recognized is stroke warning signs because of what Teddy's team has done or because of <hes> you pumping the warning signs and I understand what this was when I saw it in myself or my mom and we got her to the hospital as quickly as we could. It may save their life. I was running the Boston marathon this year. Okay quick story for you and I'm running with a group Rupa Teddy's team runners and I mean we're I mean heartbreak hills coming up. I mean it's it's a it's a grind out there. Running the marathon and there's a woman that came up to me and said she just started running next to us and talked about how my my mother was suffering stroke and I noticed the warning signs because of what you do and the awareness that you sprint I learned them because of that and it saved her life and we we were able to do so much things for her because I got her to the hospital as quickly as possible. This is in the middle of the Boston Marathon and I got a quick reminder of why that I do all of this and it was one of the most beautiful moments of my life to give me validation in terms of what what Ted is team is doing doing the work that we've done in the past not that you need it but here's a little bit more validation so last week E._S._p._N.. Announces that you'll be joining the Sunday N._F._l.. Countdown team that Louis Riddick will be moved to the Monday night countdown set. I'm going to be traveling on their football for Mona countdown but when that announcement was made and you looked at some of the comments the overwhelming majority of the comments all were how is teddy doing and when I saw the reaction to the E._s._p._N.. Announcement that was an I said you know what I'm going to reach out to teddy. Come on the podcast to answer this question for all these people who were asking that was what I texted. Hey would you be willing to do this because because there were so many people who reacted the way they did that. That was the common question how is Teddy doing and it just shows you how much love and support you have in there whether it is as E._S._p._N.. Analyst or is football linebacker or as a stroke survivor. How aware were you? I guess or are you to people's curiosity and concern in how you are doing. It's it's it's honestly overwhelming to me. In terms of the cotton kindness of people <hes> not just patriots fans but just people in general in terms of their support for me that I've in various platforms that have read whether it's social media or or direct text messages or letters that I've received. It's it's something that I've been overwhelmed with that. How kind people can be it's and it helps in the healing process and and I it's been very flattering for me? I guess over woman's Word once again but <hes> you know it's. I'm very proud very proud to be able to say that you know I am a survivor and that being a survivor and what I've been able. Able to overcome his definitely due to a lot of support and and the kindness I'd like to say of a lot of people across the country will this most recent stroke change your life in any way physically mentally emotionally moving mm four teddy <hes> okay well medically. Let's talk about that going forward <hes>. I don't mind talking about my medical condition. It's been it's been something I've been open about ever since I had my last joke just so people can understand after my first joke. They discovered a hold of my heart <hes> I had a P._F.. Owen A._S._T.. There the both congenital heart congenital heart defects that I had that I had to have a device put in close to close those holes and so after that going forward I put a baby aspirin and they thought that would be fine for me to play in the N._F._l.. And I did for four more years so here we are fourteen fifteen years later and I had another stroke so it's it's still question. It's still it's still oh makes my doctors curious on why this happens again so going forward <hes> a stronger blood center is in my life probably for you know for the foreseeable future. That's one changed medically for me <hes> in terms of the way I handle my life the way I live my life. None of that's going to change like I said before yesterday I just had to go out there and run the same route that Iran before my strokes and I had to do that because I mean I I just it's just the way I am. I mean okay that happened. I'm not GonNa let that give me any type of mental block that I can't run that I can't do anything. They told me I can and I will just like the first time when they said you're GONNA be okay to play football football and it's just if you can handle it mentally and emotionally well I did. It took me a little bit longer to handle things that first time around because there were times that come back year. I didn't know if I was doing the right thing and teddy just had a stroke stroke. I mean what are you doing. I mean you got a family. You've gotTa wipe you got a kid so that type of mental hurdle. I'm over that so took me a little bit quickly a little bit much shorter time to get over it now like I said I'm running again. I will continue continue to do what I want to do because number one I've been told I can yep and my doctors are on my side so there's really not something in me that says to be careful and maybe there's another marathon in my future. I don't know I won't I won't compromise my life based on being stroke survivor and what I've been through in the past it's adversity and the way you overcome it as always been something that I just I just take it on straight ahead full on head to head. That's what I do but you never had a July fourth quite like that one teddy yeah no no. It was unique wit yeah. My brother's birthday actually is on July fourth that he was texted me and he called me. I said well happy birthday Bro. Oh Yeah so yeah something about holidays with my strokes to it was February fourteenth and then I had it the night up so which was technically separate fifteenth July fourth but <hes> it it happens and you gotta accept who you are you know and I know who I am and Schroeck is a part of who I am and how I live my life and I just accept it with open arms and continue to live well teddy. Guess what Labor Day is coming up Monday September second okay. Let's try to stay right and and and you'll be debut on Sunday N._F._l.. Countdown on Sunday September eighth six days later so we got to get to that holiday and get there's some N._F._l.. Countdown in good piece there yeah I'll be just fine. Don't worry I'll be there and to be if I could just address that did on the Sunday N._F._l.. Countdown it'd be a lot of fun for me. <hes> you know with Sam lab rats and and working with Moss again. That's GonNa be fun <hes> since we are old Patriot days and then hassle back it's it's a great group and <hes> I look forward to it a lot the last ten years at E._S._p._N.. With N._F._l.. Live has been in an absolute joy for me to work because it's just I just have fun talking football and being part teacher you know part <hes> Sorta just just talking about the game in a way that I want to help people understand it and what from a player's perspective effective so I'm looking forward to that and <hes> you know seeing you in action on Sundays to buddy and don't forget more because he's the heart and soul of that show still and he's GonNa Needle you this year and you're GonNa have a lot of fun with him as well teddy it just a couple of years ago. Just two more be a hard side. Everybody a hard time. There was only one guy who could make fun of boomer and that's more yeah I know you're more to and your sense of humor is enormously underrated. He is really the funniest guy in that room. I mean he's hysteric. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA enjoy being in the war on Sunday after the show when everyone gathers to watch all the games net room and it's a bunch of people from the show sitting around having phone big group of friends food and what's better than that sitting around watching people you like yeah. There's a pretty pretty intense fantasy league. I think <hes> the apart of with you guys to someone before to that yeah where we are very excited. We will have no mercy on you in that league this here a little Louis Riddick last year as a first timer distinguished himself fairly well. I have to say so if you could do that this year. That'd be impressive. I've been in that league since we started at ten years ago to E._S._p._N.. Roughly I've never once won a teddy so if you come in and win it this sure it can be very embarrassing. All the all the rest of us here. I think about winning championships and if you do get to create a ring because you get enough rings as it is you know we'll give you one more fancy ranked add collection and I think everybody would enjoy getting that ring over Matthew Berry that I will say to you as long as I don't get. Last places are toilet bowl word. I'll say away from that. Oh that's usually reserved for Trey Wingo but you got his spot on the League because he had that spot way too long way <music> a teddy. Thank you so much for the time today. Thank you for the candor for the inspiration for the courage for the example you set for everybody. There's a lot that we should be thankful to you for and I certainly am. I appreciate your time today. I appreciate the time I talk about stroke awareness and then of course my my my fantastic time there that that I've had at E._S._p._N.. Teddy's team. I'm something very passionate. About if you WANNA learn anything more about my organization it's Teddy's team dot org. That's where you can learn more about stroke. The warning signs immigrate things we do Adam always love talking to you. Buddy love you teddy. Thank you Buddy Levy to but are you tired of credit card bills with high interest rates ready to pay off your credit card balances and start saving money get credit card consolidation loan from light stream with rates as low as five point nine five percents A._p._R.. With auto pay lower than the average credit card interest rate of over nineteen percent A._p._R.. You can get a loan from five thousand two hundred thousand with no fees. No application fees no origination fees. No transaction fees no prepayment penalties. The rate is fixed so it will never go up over the life of the loan plus. You can even get your money in your bank account soon. As the day you apply the online application so easy you can apply right from your phone. Light Stream believes that people with good credit deserve a better loan experience and that's exactly why they deliver just for my listeners apply now to get a special interest rate discount count the only way to get this discount is to go to livestream dot com slash Adam light stream dot com slash Adam subject to credit approval rate includes point five percent auto pay discount terms conditions apply and offers subject to change without notice visit light stream dot com slash Adam L. I. T. S. T. R. A.. M. Dot com slash Adam. I can't believe it that Gerald is presenting the quarterly budget report with finger puppets. Look here comes one point seven percent decrease in overhead. Hello everybody no. I can't believe how easy it was to save save hundreds of dollars on my car insurance Geico you know projected increase in Organic Q._3. Revenue believe at Geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance a now joining us the third ear wide receiver from the Detroit Lions Kenny Golladay and Kenny. I have to ask you you come out of Saint Rita High School in Chicago. You've grown to be the six foot four two hundred and thirteen pound monster on the football field and yet while you're relieving Saint Rita High School in Chicago. The only college scholarship offer that you had was to an F. C. S. Program University of North Dakota No F. B.. S. offers no other scholarship offers. How does that happen for a guy that big in that talented not really falling under the radar you know I guess you know you say everything happens for a reason? But how do you fall under a radar like that. How does that happen <hes> man? I can't near you know begin to tell you. I guess you know maybe we're <hes> a run the school you know and we really didn't I probably only had what forty receptions I didn't have. You know amazing numbers and they're not really know how to size you know coming out of high school. ooh I kind of had a growth spurt in college how big a growth spurt in College Kenny O. Three or four inches. Maybe maybe maybe five. I'm not even sure it was something crazy. Eighty two and I didn't even notice it myself. Other people are just tell me really and at that point. Do you have any idea that you are an N._F._l.. Caliber capable of going to the lines with the ninety sixth overall pick in the third round of the two thousand seventeen N._F._l.. Draft when do you get the idea that that's possible. What would it be honest? I started. I started my career at University of North Dakota play much who freshman year sophomore year and just kind of wanted to test the waters a little bit so I made them all highlights puts together and actually sent it to my high school coach. 'cause you know around that time all of the cops close coming in and you know mayhem still talk to this day. He Pass it along. I'm in Northern Illinois jumped on it and play. I said well set up my first year and then play my ratio junior and after that season you know Kinda just hit me. You know a lot of phone calls start coming in a lot of people in my eerily but you know to just stay with it you know and just focused on the main. Go and just you know had another solid season my senior see your high school coach. Well we got we got a name him. First of all was critical and you getting the scholarship offer to Northern Illinois you went backwards went back to high school to move ahead in college that correct yeah in his name is todd. WHO's go these coaches there too and so you still speak to get tips and pointers from into this day or is it more just a friendly colleague type of basis more friendly <hes> colleague Basin? You know we still talk about my season this season and just we just do the friendship. Can he see things in your game though because I had a writing coaching in college and when I was writing for a newspaper back in Denver he'd read clips and he called me up every now and then and we discuss things. Does your high school coach see things in your plants. Hey Kenny try this. Try that or you could do this better or that worse. <hes> it is no longer <hes> you know he he no longer come off as a coach anymore you know he kinda understand it and just comes off as a friend and you know <hes>. He never really critiques Hopley so now that you've been in the N._F._l.. Kenny you are and this is amazing to me. One of six players to average fifteen yards per reception have seventy receptions and five touchdown catches last season along with Mike. Mike Evans Brandin Cooks T. Y.. Hilton George Kill and Tyreek Hill. That's quite a crowd that you're in. What do you attribute that? You didn't know that <hes> no fifteen yards I f.. Seventy catches five touchdowns and again. That's quite a less Mike Evans brandin cooks George Cato entire kill when you do hear that. What does that mean to you I mean I guess it's really just on you know <hes> coming coming off slow start rookie here and I just wanted to you know come in my second? You're healthy and just play fast. Really you know 'cause when you're a rookie to start off slow. You got a lot going on you know a lot coming and that second year I was able to just <hes> you know coming from a little bit so you went into last year wanting to be healthy and fast what is realistic to expect from you in your three coming up right here. Could be honest just building building Orne last year. You know I wanNA keep you know stacking these building blocks and just keep producing for the team and last year for those who don't realize it you lead the lines in receptions you had seventy and receiving yards thousand sixty three and you were the sixth second-year player in lions history to post two thousand yard season the first to do it was Calvin Johnson in two thousand eight he he left in two thousand and fifteen and he left on bad terms with the organization. Have you had a chance of any sort of contact conversation with Calvin Johnson at all or have. You never spoken with the man <hes> we we've yet <hes> communicate <hes> that wouldn't say I wouldn't say we're not going to communicate. We just haven't done it you know. What would you like to speak with him about? If you ever got that chance Kenny <hes> don't really know more so just pick his brain you know <hes> he produced so many years every year you play pretty much had a lot of production and this brand on just leave so I'm sure he could offer a lot now again. You're going to this third year. No Golden Tate traded last year to Philadelphia. Don't take now in New York. Do you see your role changing at all on the lines this season without golden going to camp. Oh definitely just me just me just being a vet. Their third third year got now and those young guys isn't I'm GonNa Start Looking looking at me. Maar curse Danny just for just for helping advice and I just got a you know step into that role in except now also this past week we heard from Golden Tate who said that Matthew staffer was the finest quarterback that he's ever played with better than Russell Wilson better than anybody. He's played some great quarterbacks. What is it about Matthew Stafford's talents that people don't know with you having played with him for two years now well? I really wouldn't say what they don't know. I mean staff has been for a while now. Everyone knows he's had he has the arm strength. <hes> mobile can make place. He's but well like about just competitiveness the I mean he he he's a winner and he he's GonNa bring that each and every Sunday he's GonNa Bring it at practice. He he's GonNa push you to do better you know even if he if he gets on you you know take it the wrong way. He Won. You want to get the best out of the WANNA. Bring the bet that he's going to need. You just like going to need him so it's all for the greater good candidate has some thoughts right. They're Matthew Stafford. What did you notice about the play? Lie In talents of the Lions First Round Draft Pick T._J.. Hopkinson during mini camps. I feel like you're going to have a bright future. <hes> he feel like he has sneaky speed to be honest. <hes> Kim Russell routes great hands can block. I just feel like if he keep working hard at his craft and everything he can do a great all around tight end force. That is something that would be very beneficial for this organization. Now you go to camp on Wednesday the twenty fourth and we're taping this a few days before that what is the mindset of a player who's about to basically go going to camp. Give up his life not have much freedom and know all the physical and mental challenges that are ahead of him in the weeks and months to come what goes through your mind at a time like this right before training camp we you can't really got to embrace the grind you know <hes> like like you know. Everybody says don't count the days makes the days count you know <hes> and it's all just building blocks for the season. You know those practices. I mean a lot. You don't get a lot of before you know it. Season started so you gotta go in each and every day trying to get better help. You're saying you're better in your division. ASK TOUGH DEFENSES MINNESOTA CHICAGO. WHO's the one cornerback that you think is particularly tough that you go against on a year to year basis? John is I mean both paying got pretty good corner. <hes> are you going to be a battle each and every week. One Guy might not having game that they next guy might not have the game that day but either way you're going to get. You're GONNA get some good football. Oh boy every time they win. The busy Gordon the Vikings when Detroit going bringing bait or you know the other way around is going to be good games so give me an idea Kenny again. I've tried it out some big numbers for you doc those numbers that move you into that league category are you. The twelfth wide receiver drafted in two thousand seventeen but only Juju Smith Schuster is the only one from that class who had more yards than you did last season <hes> what what do we expect numbers wise from Kenny Golly in the two thousand nineteen season and let me say this. WE'RE NOT GONNA hide from the FEC. That's a fantasy driven question candy for all the people out there who want to know whether they should be drafting you hear what do we expect this season. You know what you have to have to dress and and just hope for the best but I'm definitely going to know fast of course this just trying to pick while left off last year man do my job to the best my ability and go out there and make plays each and every Sunday well if you do that whoever does draft. He's GonNa be Pretty Happy Definitely Kenny I really appreciate taking some time. Lots of luck this season and thank you very much of the time and there is the lions wide receiver Kenny Golly who seems poised for another big season in his third season in the N._F._l.. And especial thanks to our friend the great tedy Bruschi who just from his comments you could see why he has such an inspiration to so many people he was a favourite of the Patriot Organization for a long time and remains that to this day. He's a favourite at E._S._P._N.. For All of those who work work with him or around him and you can see why so many people in the public love and appreciate the type of man that Tedy Bruschi is thank you to the listeners for tuning into another Adam Schefter podcast we'll.

football Rupa Teddy tedy Bruschi Patriots Adam Kenny Boston Adam Schefter New England Patriots Kenny Golladay Matthew Stafford Analyst Louis Riddick Mobil Attleboro ExxonMobil Chicago Indiana Tissue Plasminogen activator
How to read President Trump's budget

Marketplace with Kai Ryssdal

27:36 min | 1 year ago

How to read President Trump's budget

"This. Marketplace podcast is brought to you by Amazon web services, helping millions of customers from startups to enterprises to governments transform their industries with secure a already cloud services. Learn more at AWS is how dot com slash podcast and by Lincoln. Hello Monday is a new podcast from Lincoln's aditorial team about work how to like it change it. And maybe even how to love it. Join host Jessi Hempel for lessons that help you make the most of the work day and your life outside of it. Find Hello Monday on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. It's gonna take awhile to figure out what happened with that crash. That does not help much though, if you've got a flight coming up from American public media. This is marketplace. In Los Angeles. I'm KAI Ryssdal. It is Monday today the eleventh day, March good as always to have a long everybody aviation accidents are almost always complicated, and it can take months or usually longer to figure out what actually happened. And why? So while we wait for the specifics of Ethiopian flight three oh to to become more clear. There are some very real concerns being raised by would be travelers and airlines about the aircraft involve as you know, it's the newest Boeing plane the seven thirty-seven max eight the same model that crashed in Indonesia late last year, south west an American or among the US carriers that fly at marketplace marrow. Sagarra looks at what this crash might mean for them when Stephanie Johnny heard about the thean airlines crash. She thought about her daughter Juliet who's about to fly to Thailand, I sent her Texas morning thing. Juliette? If you're a need to find out what kind of plane, you're flying to Beijing. And then Thailand because if it's a seven thirty seven max. Changing your fight by Yanni is fifty three and lives in DC. She owns an active wear company and travels a lot for work. Now. One more thing to do check. What kind of a plan you're on? It's not clear yet why the airlines flight crashed on Sunday. Or if there is any problem with the Boeing seven thirty-seven, max eight and regulators like the FAA will be looking into this Daniele Quincy Chiku is an aviation professor at the university of North Dakota. We jump at this point, we hugest wheat, whatever instigate this to come up with the commend issues. B's don't sucks. The US airlines that fly the plane southwest in American say they stand behind the safety of their fleets including the seven thirty seven max eight, but travelers are getting nervous. American Airlines says it won't be waiving. It's changed fees for customers who refuse to fly on the jet southwest wouldn't disclose its policy Richard Obolov via an aviator. Analyst at the teal group says any cancellations probably won't have a huge affect on the airlines there are only three hundred fifty of these planes in the world. American Airlines has twenty four south west has thirty four. Ruin away small number. So they're not gonna lose business. I mean, just because of the relatively small number fight service by these jets Stephanie body, I need by the way was relieved to hear that her daughter will not be flying to Thailand on the Boeing seven thirty-seven max eight I'm maryelle Sagarra for marketplace. One of the reasons the crash of flight three, oh two has led to so much international concern about the max aid is that if the opium airlines isn't some small budget airline. It's big it's well respected into an international carrier with a history that goes back to the end of the second World War as marketplace. Ben Bradford reports it is also arguably the most significant company in the horn of Africa, both economically and culturally in the US. The president doesn't typically show up for an airport opening a new terminal, but that's what happened in Ethiopia in January. People celebrated as prime minister, a b m cut the ribbon on the new international terminal at the bully airport in the country's capital Addison baba expanding Ethiopian Airlines hub to about the size of Dole's airport outside Washington DC. Is ABI linked. The airport's expansion without of Ethiopia's economy praising it saying the country still has far to go. If yoga was sub Saharan Africa's fastest growing economy last year. It's trying to drive that growth through state investment, and the airline is its crown jewel analyst Craig Jenks lichens Ethiopian incised to Canada's westjet, it is widely regarded as a well run a well-managed well operated company, the company's passenger count has quadrupled over the past decade is over a hundred international routes and its revenue is a quivalent almost five percent of Ethiopia's entire GDP. Economist Dubna lemme at the university of Massachusetts says via Skype that it's not just the country's economy. But it's national pride that's tied up in the airline. It's something happened. Something like, this is not considered just us. Some accidents happen on some company. It's considered as the symbol of the country. After yesterday's crash Ethiopia's parliament immediately declared a national day of mourning. I'm Ben Bradford for marketplace. Boeing shares as you might imagine. How to rough day today off twelve percent at the open fought back to close down just a bit more than five percent. If perchance you glanced at the markets early today. And then tuned out as arguably you ought to do everyday medicine. The Dow way down deep in the red. That's because the Dow was what you call a price weighted index the higher companies share price, the bigger and impact it has on that index. Boeing is the most expensive stock in the Dow going away four hundred dollars a share as of the close today any guesses by the way, as to the second most expensive Dow company, it's all right? I'll wait it's not apple don't go there. Not Goldman don't go there. Either. Anybody three m good old Minnesota mining manufacturing? Anyway, quite a tidy finish on Wall Street today. Details numbers, you know, the drill. The White House is out with its twenty twenty budget proposal today. The word proposal is doing a whole lot of work there because congress will almost surely ignore what the president and his advisors want and come up with its own plan to spend taxpayer money four point seven trillion dollars. By the way is the magic number for the Trump administration. Again, it's a presidential fiscal wishlist. But it does give some insight into where this country spends money, and where increasingly it can't. Marketplace's Kimberly Adams has more now from Washington President. Trump's proposal calls for two point seven trillion dollars in spending cuts over a decade, those cuts come from one part of the budget in particular, what's called non-defense, discretionary spending, a whole host of items that are sort of basic government functions. Seth Hamlin is a senior fellow at the center for American progress. Everything from aviation security to law enforcement to the national weather service education infrastructure. Basically, everything that's not the military or mandatory spending like social security Medicare interest on the national debt back in the nineteen seventies. That mandatory spending was only about a third of the budget, and congress could decide how to spend the other two-thirds. And now, it's completely the reverse where basically the part of disgust in our overall budget is a very small part, very Nick derision at the Mercatus center says the share of the budget going to things like education or housing programs is down to about a third leaving congress to argue over how to spend a steadily shrinking portion of federal revenue imagine that very hungry dogs. And you give them less food each time to fight over. And they can't quite agree on how to spend that money. And that piece of Meade keeps getting smaller because says Justin bogey at the Heritage Foundation. The share? Going to mandatory spending the items basically on auto pay keeps getting bigger, and that's simply because the cost of things like healthcare programs is becoming so great that there's just less and less of the budget to go around those costs will keep growing along with the national debt and its interest payments. You know, sometime in the next fifteen twenty years or so we're going to be to the point that just search security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest on the debt will actually consume all federal revenues at least according to current projections in Washington, I'm Kimberly Adams for marketplace. One would not in ordinary conversation. Call a Bank branch office, a cool place to be business models. However are not ordinary conversations. And thus here we are talking about no less than old-line Bank than J P Morgan. Chase playing the cool card in Washington DC why? Well, first of all demographics is destiny and also because after years of trying chase has finally been cleared to set up shop in the nation's capital. Marketplace's Nancy Marshall genzer explains. What's going on there? With its first branch in DC. Chase is trying hard to be young and hip, there's modern furniture and lighting the only to tell her windows are hidden in the back behind sliding doors. John Eric Wilson is the branch manager. He says around two-thirds at the bank's customers are millennials like himself? They can relax them the couches the can plug into the chargers on the table tops. This is the space is the most comfortable for that. Listen points to what's known as the family room that's separate from the branches three living rooms there are also so called restaurant booths along the sidewalk where customers can get financial advice. Wilson is wearing the Bank uniform jeans, a button-down shirt and a name tag. That says I'm saving for a house. He says all this is designed to make talking about money less stressful for young customers, maybe want them to be able to come in when they need advice. And we wanna be there to help them grow into the part of their financial journey yet. Chase and every other traditional. Bank. But here's what they're up against a whole generation of Rousse, Ella means element. Who's thirty four came into the chase branch to replace her lost ATM card, otherwise she does her banking online. Then I don't have to come into the branch and walk in the cold or use my lunch break to come into rent. Whatever broader in branch manager, John Eric Wilson is just glad she's here because even the lost ATM card can lead to a conversation that can lead to bigger things that conversation used to be a lot easier. Nancy cane at the Harvard Business School says for years the conversation started right out of school or with a first job. Here's your credit card. Would you like us to help you refine interested in loan? Would you like us to help you think about planning your for your retirement, but now banks are up against much stiffer competition from online lenders personal loans made by traditional banks dropped by about a third in the past five years in part because more consumers were turning to online banks. That's according to a. Trans union study Andrew Hove, it is with no vantage as a marketing firm for big banks. He says flashy new branches can give them an edge making sure that you have some locations that are kind of marquee locations around town where you're able to kind of build and burnish your brand chase plans to open up to seventy new branches in the Washington region capital. One Bank recently opened one of its cafes in Washington. They served Pete's coffee and have charging stations capital. One will open a second cafe in Georgetown, just a couple of doors down from a branch. Chase is now building I nabbed twenty nine year old Adam Steele on the sidewalk outside. I think I would go and use the charging station. Steele says he does like the idea of interacting with someone face to face at a Bank. But unless his phone battery is dying steel would rather go to a traditional Bank ranch. He's more comfortable with an old fashioned loan officer than robing associated genes, perhaps that's because of his gender. Mistrust of banks. We came of age during a financial crisis of many of my friends endured hardship had to take on tremendous amounts of student loans, especially my own father lost his job during the financial crisis. Still a Bank is at Bank and its biggest draw is the perks on its credit cards or higher interest rates on savings accounts. That's what really matters to steal. He is a Capital One customer because it offered him the best interest rate and all the throw pillows and charging stations in the world won't help banks compete for customers like him. If they don't have that in Washington, I'm Nancy Marshall genzer for marketplace. Coming up if you wanna get paid white-collar wages, then you'd better be prepared to work like a blue collar worker, not a bad mantra for the entrepreneurs among us. But I was do the numbers. Dow was up two hundred points today seven tenths of one percent. That's after being down down to forty two. Remember, I told you the price weighted index blue chips closed at twenty five thousand six fifty minute has gained one hundred forty nine points. Two percent, finishing seventy five fifty eight the S and P five hundred climbed forty points. One point four percent twenty-seven and Eighty-three Boeing we told you about down more than five percent of the close today. European rival Airbus gained one point two percent airline stocks kind of mixed today actually dealt climb more than three percent jet. Blue gained two point six percent. United almost unchanged down just a hair southwest off about a third of one percent, tesla, and I missed this it rolled back plans to close at stores and raise prices on most of its models after saying it was gonna closer stores and cut prices anyway, finish the day to end three tenths of one percent higher GM of about one and a half percent bond. Prices fell yield on the ten year treasury note, rose two point six four percent. You're listening to marketplace. This marketplace podcast is brought to you by Kronos known compliments you in their paycheck is correct. But make one mistake, and you risk alienating your entire workforce. With Kronos, they make sure your payroll is done, right. The first time from punch to paycheck embedded checklists. Simplified workflows a single source of truth HR, payroll talent and timekeeping in one unified system all with a proven implementation approach and simplified transparent pricing. Learn more at Kronos dot com slash payroll. Kronos, workforce innovation that works. And by Lenovo for small business Lenovo is all about making a difference where it counts by providing technology solutions built specifically for small business like financing options premier technical support and device and service solutions that can scale alongside you as you grow. Because at Lenovo they know that there is a no one-size-fits-all solution. They know that tech should be built to fit your business, not just any business. So whether you're looking for new devices for on-demand IT help or software and hard. Ware services. Novo is here to be a difference maker for you that way, you can spend less time worrying about your tech and more time focused on what matters most running your business to learn more about Lenovo for small business and to see how they can make a difference for you. Visit WWW dot Lenovo dot com slash SMP. That's WWW dot Lenovo dot com slash SM. Be powered by Intel. This is marketplace, I'm KAI Ryssdal. There are more kids in this economy. Today says the centers for disease control dealing with chronic illnesses than there used to be. And that means there are more kids showing up at school while dealing with chronic conditions, and that in turn puts a huge load on school, nurses, a problem that is especially acute in the more rural parts of this country. Maine's a real good example, nurses, they're often after travel to reach students spread across several schools. So some districts down Easter looking for more money and more nurses to ease. The workload. Main public radio's Robbie Feinberg has. Now, the kids begin flowing into nurse. Maxine raise office early on this Monday morning at Aetna. Dick's Montella mentoring school in rural pinup, Scott county me the students have nausea rashes a nose bleed squeeze hide squeezed hard. Gimmie that girl parade is when the at the school two days a week. She works at two other schools the rest of the time. So there's. A lot. She's got to do in just a few hours parade shows me several cups inside her medicine. Cabinet stocked with pills assigned to students. You have these kids who have crises whether it's a mental health crisis. And they take meds to help manage that. And they have a lot of difficulties and challenges at home. They don't have food. They don't have heat. They don't know where they're going to be. They don't know who's going to be the only going home the school is dozens of miles for most medical services making the nurse's office often feel like a little emergency room. She says nine a faquir is the president of the national association of school. Nurses, says the job isn't what much of the public imagines. I think the average person thinks that the school, nurses, someone who sits in a little office puts bandaids on boo. Boos when kids come in, you know, with scrutinise from the playground. Maybe an ice pack gives them a hug, but she says that's not the case today. According to the CDC rates of diseases like diabetes and epilepsy. Have surged? Children over the past few decades, mental health needs of increased yet a twenty eighteen study in the journal of school nursing found that less than forty percent of schools employ fulltime school, nurses, again, fa- Carris, we're often on our cell phones. Talking to secretaries and school staff about issues and crises that are happening at the school. So we're kind of trying to triage over the telephone in Maine the burden is particularly heavy in rural and high-poverty areas. Plus, there's a statewide nursing shortage that's projected to grow to three thousand nurses, by twenty twenty-five university of Maine nursing professor Kelly strout says some parts of the state with the worst health outcomes often have the fewest school, nurses, strout describes one tiny coastal school district near the Canadian border. We're a nurse covers seven school buildings and only visits each once a month. The issue is so clear that there's just resource disparity across the state, but it's just Howdy. Fix that. You know, how do you level it out, especially when it comes to our health, Maxine Paret says in heard a strict it's had to become a team effort to handle the added burden administrative assistance often pick up the slack and distribute medicine. The school also trains everyone from custodians to bus drivers even some students on how to administer CPR and first aid. But that can all still leave gaps in care. That's led organizations like the American Academy of pediatrics to advocate for fulltime, nurses, in every school, building yet schools still have to compete with better paying institutions nationally, the average RN in a hospital made around seventy two thousand dollars in two thousand seventeen those in schools made about sixteen thousand dollars less superintendent, Mike hammer who runs a rural district in Maine says he sees few nursing applicants presently. We have a behavioral specialist that we're looking forward to confer speech therapist. We are looking for nurse. We've gone through three or four nurses in the last three years that I've been here. Some schools are now looking towards new models. They hope will help like sharing school nurse costs with local hospitals. But so far those efforts are mostly few and far between leaving schools to try and fill in the gaps in ponobscott county. Maine, I'm Robbie Feinberg for marketplace. The two thousand ten census put the population of new Plymouth, Idaho at one thousand five hundred and thirty eight so it's a small town an hour or so north west of Boise. And we're talking about it, basically because it's not New York or San Francisco or Los Angeles. It's not a place you hear about all the time is being great places to start a new business. And yet new Plymouth is for a particular slice of the market in this digital age of retail. Jesse Roberts founded her company, it's called cheese in new Plymouth. It's apparent accessories. Brands for rural women, and it is now a multi million dollar online in a price her book about her life and her business in rural America is called back roads. Boss lady. Jessie, welcome to the program. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. When you started in new Plymouth, and you set up that boutique what were you sitting out to do? Well, I think there are a lot of people have these safer, inspirational wise stories and what they're why is. But the truth is is that I wanted to. Lead for kids. Like that was why I started the business I had kids to feed, and I had a very small amount of money. I didn't want to sell cars anymore. I didn't want to own a laundry mat? But whether I enjoyed it or not I was there to pay. The bills store is rigidly. Handbags accessories. Clothing for rural women do me a favor for those who are listening to this. And honestly me included who might not understand that market segment. What what was your business? Well, originally, I actually started don't judge me a tanning salon. But yeah, I thought that people would want that. And I bought a handful of handbags and some jewelry, and the first thing that sold was all of that. And no one was tanning. So was like all right. We're gonna sell these tanning beds and buy some more stuff. And then it just got to the point where I wanted to have something different. And I started to realize that the majority of the items that were sold to women who lived in the country, you know, farm girls, ranchers, just anyone who lived more outdoor down to earth kind of lifestyle. All of those things were being designed in Asia. So they didn't sometimes make sense in. So I wanted to figure out how can I make these products more authentic? So I started designing my own products. And you have become now a woman running a, plus minus ten million dollars in prize. Right. You have an international supply chain, you are are working on it distribution center in Australia. So holy cow. Well, yeah. I I guess the question is when did you make that transition from selling things in a little rural boutique in new Plymouth, Idaho to a brand an enterprise you every day I had to grow just a little bit. We very quickly outgrew the infrastructure that our town could handle we outgrew the electricity. The phones the cable the weight of our product actually and our equipment was too heavy for most of the late eighteen hundreds buildings. So we've had to replace floors. Can I mean like everything you name it? So I just let it grow naturally in stayed content in where I was could you take a minute. And and explain what it's like to try to compete from rural America with a lot of the big urban brands who in a lot of ways. Don't aren't they don't have your best interests at heart. I think that that is a struggle that I have every day not only in the business. But personally, you know, I'm often times told you're not big enough. You're not small enough you're not country enough. I have this saying that is if you wanna get paid white-collar wages, then you'd better be prepared to work like a blue collar worker, and so I had to be willing to do other people wouldn't and and that that was working or are you getting the white collar wage, isn't it? I am providing white-collar wages for a lot of other people. And that's what's really important to me. Jesse roberts. The book is called Belk Rhodes boss lady the company's called cheeky you find it online. Jesse? Thanks a lot. Thank you. So much. His final note on the way out today. This one is for everybody who's kids didn't sleep last night or who drove to work in the dark or to whom the idea of just arbitrarily changing the clock seems dumb anyway from the president's Twitter account today. It's been awhile since we quoted him on Twitter. Anyway, this tweet quote making daylight saving time, permanent is okay. With me. Exclamation point. First of all, he's right is saving not savings. Also, not a terrible idea. Don't add me are we gotta go. The down was up two hundred points today. Seven tenths of one percent the phrase oh the day, by the way, the market for as the day once again sate with me price weighted, the NASDAQ up one hundred forty nine point two percent. The s&p five hundred gained forty that is one point four percent daily production team includes Bridget Bonner real Han. Horst Sean McHenry daisy, plus ios and Daniel Shinners special projects desk, dummy Andre is Elisa mills, I'm KAI Ryssdal. We will see. Mart bundy. This is APN. This marketplace podcast is brought to you by Lincoln on Monday. Most of us don't crack a smile until like eleven sixteen AM. But what if Monday was something you greeted with excitement? Hello Monday is a new podcast from Lincoln's editorial team about how we're changing work. And how work is changing us each week host Jessi Hempel brings you reporting and candid conversations from the frontlines of the new office. Find Hello Monday on apple podcasts or wherever you listen podcasts.

Washington DC Boeing Bank president KAI Ryssdal Maine apple Chase Lincoln Plymouth US Thailand Lenovo Jessi Hempel Kronos Ethiopia Jesse Roberts DC Los Angeles American Airlines
Season Two, Episode 9: Hunting in the Dark for Monsters

On a Mission

42:17 min | 1 year ago

Season Two, Episode 9: Hunting in the Dark for Monsters

"In regions of the world without light pollution. The nights are enriched with the vast field of stars they twinkle above in a seemingly infinite multitude kid to how they couldn't and amateur and professional astronomers spend their evenings watching the stars stars and galaxies as well as planets and asteroids that look like stars because they reflect sunlight when small asteroid grains travel through our atmosphere. They light up into nature's fireworks bringing out. Droves of new stargazers turned away the spectacle of a meteor shower but even with so many eyes on the sky. Sometimes were taken by surprise just this July an unexpected visitor knocked on our door at its closest. Just approach to us an asteroid named twenty nineteen okay with sixty five thousand kilometers away less than one fifth the distance to the Moon this was the largest asteroid to come this close since astronomers have been keeping track of near Earth objects the asteroid is between sixty and one hundred and thirty meters across roughly the size of a football field scientists. Say that if it had hit us it would've released over thirty times the energy of an atomic bomb but we only knew about asteroid twenty nineteen. Okay five hours before it cruised by how did an asteroid this size. Almost slip past us. It turned out to have an uncanny ability ability to exploit several limitations asteroid detection. I it came toward us on a straighter path than most asteroids. Do so for a few years instead of looking like a typical asteroid traveling across the sky. It seemed to stay fixed in place like a faint star that was growing brighter like a Supernova when it got close enough that we could see it moving more like an asteroid. The full moon blocked our view for several days. Trying to watch for it then would be like looking for a firefly firefly flitting behind an enormous spotlight after the moon moved on and it's slow arc across the sky. Poor weather prevented to asteroid hunting teams in Hawaii from seeing the asteroid and Catalina Sky Survey the prolific asteroid search group described episode. One had completely shut down on for monsoon season. When the skies in Arizona are two cloudy for stargazing by the time the weather cleared the Hawaiian Asteroids seekers had moved on to observe serve different parts of the sky only a small amateur run observatory in Brazil was lucky enough to be looking in the right patch of clear sky at the right time? Dec- The stealthy space rock streak past us. Space is unimaginably vast and our planet is small asteroids or even Tinier senior. Most telescopes can't spot asteroids until they're close enough for us to see the sunlight reflecting off them in this way. Searching for asteroids can be like looking for missing keys under a streetlamp the keys may not have fallen there but the night is so dark. And that's where the light is tweet and Sir Start to one commission giving point I I welcome to on a mission. podcast of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. I'm Leslie Mullen and Mrs Season Two episode nine hunting in the dark for monsters vs new ready. A professor at the University of Arizona in Tucson is part of the Planetary Defense is team that keeps track of near Earth Asteroids in addition to studying what the various asteroids are like he takes part in the planetary defense exercises that were featured in episode the three now the traditionally does table Top. It so these exercises where they get key federal agencies like FEMA and others and they go into a conference room and they play if there's an asteroid headed a certain way and it can impact in the second location. How do you move people out of harm's way so there's no unrealized beliefs but I said like what about we do a really not that we're gonNA track an ashtray headed directly to impact the earth? But we take a real asteroid and try and figure out a way to track it and whether we all at scientists play along well since we're civilians right well not military and NASA Asom wandered. Somebody who can kurt the cast so to speak you know all the scientists together to run the exercise and since I had proposed the exercise and I was only in the mice it would be me. The twenty meter asteroid. Twenty Twelve T. C.. Four seemed to be a good fit for the twenty seventeen planetary defense exercise. This is two thousand twelve but it was locked. We knew roughly where it would reappear in the fall of twenty seventeen but we do know exactly where it was kind affleck rediscovering that asteroid and we said let's try and track. This ashtrays active. It was an impacter because based on what we knew from the previous orbit in two thousand twelve it would come as close as a few thousand kilometers to the surface so we thought it's fantastic idea to try and track and exercise the whole system. How quickly can we pass on actionable information to the people doing impact modeling? It's like okay. We found around the ask for just made of this material and that would imply certain ground effect from the asteroid the earth and same thing with site befouled the aspect is actually ten meters twenty meters so it would hurt. Less people can meter object or it will burn up harmlessly in the atmosphere so that kind of information and also the communication aspect of it. How do you communicate with the public? How do you communicate with NAPA leadership? The White House these new had to coordinate the observation survey ship efforts of astronomers from all around the world we ended up with something like seventy scientists from fourteen or fifteen countries and it was just fascinating to watch this the whole thing come together. Human being in any time you put a lot of them together is challenging to push them towards the common goal because people want to have their opinion heard. I was pleasantly surprised that we were not as bad as I thought we would be. The exercise didn't go completely according to plan. Now we have a couple of radar facilities the basically giant radio telescopes are radar. Antennas that you can bounce microwave off the asteroid to find out shape. It's precise location. Some extended Sirkin tation period. I'm things like that. A big facilities in Puerto Rico. It's called the ours CBO of the retrieve the giant dish in limestone that into the ground basically. We had a huge Hurricane Hurricane Maria. Go through for Rico just before the flight by up disaster and so it knocked that facility out but luckily we we had goldstone radar in California. That was also part of the exercise though they were able to carry out the operation for so as much as we. Humans Woman's prepare. We can't predict acts of God and so we have to have backups and also I was teaching a class at the time so I do play. Entire Class to the Matha higher on monarchy in Hawaii observed in all of my students were there and we were observing the asteroid the whole mountain lots power and the power came back on. But we couldn't figure out which breaker turn on to get everything back up so we lost that night for this year's Planetary Defense Exercise Astronomers decided to observe Asteroid Nineteen Ninety Nine K. W. for this asteroid is a binary it has a tiny moon again. Unexpected events made observing the asteroid a challenge basically enough goldstone radar had technical problems so the Earth depot radar stepped in and did pretty much all the operation. You know none of this stuff is easy technically challenging to for example this time when we were trying to track ninety nine hundred before we had an instance at artists who does somebody had turned on WIFI meter installing new WIFI system at somebody's house and that was causing some weird noise that was affecting our observation. We have to deal with these. That's why you end up having backup system. We have backwards telescopes simply because we don't have a backup for earth uh-huh we have one planet going to get hit. You better know what's coming at you. You'd better be prepared for it. These new is used to overcoming enormous Thomas Challenges and obstacles when it comes to observing asteroids. The story of how he arrived at the University of Arizona is like something straight out of a Hollywood movie so I grew up in a small village in southern India by the ocean. Not Too far from what is India's version of Cape Canaveral. We Launch Rockets Doc. It's from this location. The village is called Sri Hurry Kota. My Early Childhood in the eighties was kind of like what people would have experience in the early sixties in the US if they live close to Cape Canaveral a lot of rockets taking off most of them not making adore it so creative stunt spectacular fireworks and so that volleyed fascinated meeting. I wanted to do something space. But we didn't have the best schools so I had to make the best of what I had and most of my early childhood. We didn't have power. It's actually at night so all we could do was look at this guy that was pretty much the only form of entertainment beyond you can always read a book using candles so my introduction to astronomy happened simply because I had nothing else to do. Except you've got the stars these news father. It was a physician but also a writer and actor in Indian movies at first division followed in his father's footsteps by studying filmmaking and college but he also oh continued his hobby of looking at the stars through a homemade telescope. Even that was going to film school. I was spending a lot of time in the Physics Department of another university. The same town because I like trying to be so much so a lot of people thought I was a student there when I was not and then I realized that I needed more stable permanent vision movie. The business did not offer that the my family had a few people who are journalists and so I ended up getting a job as a newspaper person and then I moved New Delhi and I was working at the newspaper. Men Usually your day starts around noon and then and that two in the morning basically I was go home home. After two o'clock in the morning and then observed for a few hours and then they kidnap and then get back to work again. We had to work six days a week while the journalist I'd heard a lot about about science and astronomy because I was always fascinated by and that was really good experience for me because there was also an astronomy club in New Delhi at the planetarium and a lot of interaction with the people there. One day Tom gehrels a professor from the University of Arizona and founder of an asteroid survey called Space Watch came to New Delhi to give a lecture at the planetarium I wanted to go and listen to his talk but I had to work that day. So I mentioned made a question my editor that I would covered our story about Tom Girls and that was actually a Sunday. which the government shutdown so? It's kind of a news so he said finance like I'll let you go but you give me a good story like probably put it on page one. I took the public transport bus and went to the talk and Tom was talking about religions more in metaphysical fence. So how when you go. Deep into physics or the origins of the universe. They have to be a grand plan. You know can't be channelled towards the end of his career. Ritchie was at that point. I think he was kind of exploring these unexplored thing but he was the astronomer. He was looking at from that perspective so I was a little panicking because because even being in India where religion plays a big part in every life of people there I couldn't possibly like because I was sent to cover an astronomer and try to bring being a new story from it after the I asked him how much journalists need to talk to you about a story and he said Yeah on the cabinet me. I'm going back to my hotel. Tally can ask questions. So we were hitting New Delhi traffic and I had my little dictaphone open my notepad and I was taking shorthand asking a question as any journalists list. Were do what. It's a local significant of this person's visit so I question why should Indian care what asteroid and he's mentioned that look at the map of India. it's surrounded by water on three sides. You have the Arabian Sea Indian Ocean of the Bengal and if you have to Nami that is generated by big ass right impact pack. You would hurt a lot of people living on the coast. He said it's more important but India to study asteroids because you have a real threat to life in India my follow up question was are professional. Astronomers doing this and he said in the US but in India I think. Most astronomers focused on poss- -nology the large scale structure of the universe universe. So there's not many people doing asteroid research the next question was can amateur astronomers with small telescopes do this kind of work and he said absolutely if you have twelve or fourteen inch telescope diameter up the mirror or the length in our scope. You can do this kind of work. Basically find asteroids and helped the cause of protecting the Earth doing planetary defense and I got all excited and they said you know. I'm an honor. I have a little telescope and I WANNA to do this kind of work and ease that you'll be the one in two billion Indians to do this work so it'd be fantastic if you do it so I dropped him off. And so tell and then I was going back to catch a bus back to work to file story and he called me back and he you know he talked about going and finding ashtrays with your telescope. That's really great but the Indians have told me the same thing and nobody has done anything about it. So if you go back and be a journalist I would be offended by these new ticket as a challenge and made it his mission to find a new asteroid his editor even said he could use the newspaper office computers after work to do asteroid research a great simply because I lived in ten by ten foot apartment in New Delhi with no heating or cooling and I had a roommate and similar to my childhood. There was not much electricity either. So you know candles melt without you lighting that simply because just what's so odd my office air conditioning. And it's like why can hang out outdoor six in the morning when the public transportation and started running again more frequently I could spend all my nights at work and learn about Astros. which is what I ended up doing for the next two years? Read papers pondered how they find asteroids how they measure the position. They made lots of friends with people in the US through instant messenger because it was daytime in the US. When was site in India so it was very convenient for me to talk to people or email them and ask them questions? These new also was trying to raise money to buy a telescope better suited for asteroid hunting one of his American friends. On Instant Messenger. Greg Peres pointed vs new to a sale on twelve inch telescopes. Instead of four thousand dollars they were discounted down to three thousand reminded him. I made thirty dollars a month salary. There's no way I could buy something. I think that was three thousand dollars and so he said I WANNA help you. He took his credit card and bought the telescope in the understanding that I will gain bursting but trying to get anything into India is really tricky so it took us two years almost to get the telescope to India because it got stuck in customs and all kinds of problems by the time. The Puff Cope arrived in India all the asteroids that you could find with the twelve inch telescope because south goes like space watts Lanier Catalina. This guy survey had found all the bright asteroid by then and you're was spent five years of my life and I had felt go in my ten by ten for department and and nowhere to put it all. The ASTERIK could find Oregon. Though basically I was pretty upset and depressed about the whole thing and then friend of Mine Roy Roy Tucker on the instant messenger deals in Tucson and he had like bigger telescope and I did. He had a fourteen inch telescope. That I'm really sorry for what happened to you. She WanNa so you might go. You're welcome to use it but you're the US and you can come in the summertime. I don't use my health. Goes in the summertime so I basically sold everything. I could except for the telescope so I can afford this trip. Even that would have helped. Pay His way. Vishnu couldn't bear to part with telescope because he had gone through so much to to get it to India after selling his other possessions. He had just enough to make overseas journey but he still had to get a travel visa at the. US Embassy in New Delhi. Let's just after nine eleven. Then I see to live. One person was rejecting all these applications. They literally people crying when they were leaving the windows and so I jumped. The line went to the other line. Were people were a little bit more happy so I ended up at the window and the personnel. Like where you're going to us go. I'm going to find an asteroid. He was surprised. I got the usual anti get this. We Wanna see that your liberty or Niagara Falls or something touristy and he started probing me. What do you do who Olympia journalists? I told him the name of my newspaper and he took that morning edition and he said. Where's your name? I don't see your name in this. So I'm Bob Editor. I edit the stories make make the pages. Then start asking questions about the ink. The font size of paper the newsprint pretty deal questions. And then he says to tell me something something about asteroid than I told him and and start asking questions about comments Dale Ion tail pretty detailed stuff and he was trying to check and make sure that I was legit and I was like wow. They really people to read people out. Were giving visas. How do you know all this stuff? And he's as he grew up up reading the LA times and they knew a lot about us papers and he basically is an amateur astronomer. He added telescope at home and so he knows a lot about astronomy. The difficult visa officer would so it was my luck that I ended up with him. Vishnu got a three month visa to the US to go find his asteroid. He flew the Chicago because that was the cheapest ticket he could find another friend he'd met online came to the airport to get him eat rope seven hours from Michigan to pick me up he said. Hey here's a couch. You can stay and sleep and figure out a way to get to Tucson. Go the Roy Tucker and find the asteroid with his goats. I didn't have money for a plane ticket. So I took a greyhound bus and took about I think with all the breakdowns and everything. Three and a half days go from Michigan to. I think I went through something. Like a dozen debate went more east and my words. The United States was watching die. Hard Bruce Willis well is so it was interesting to talk to regular simple people and they were no different from the people who lived in India. The problems are the same concerned so the same and the apparitions of the same so plummy was really grounding experience. Human beings are the same everywhere they want to work. They want a decent job. OPT want to provide for their family. Have a house good things for their kids and do better. You know. So that was a good introduction to the United States but anyway I ended up in Tucson and then Roy comes to pick me up at the Greyhound bus station and it's pouring rain. DRI- turns on the radio and it says after one hundred days with no rain to finally get it's monsoon and I looked at. What is the monsoon again? We have rain for the next three months. That's the monsoon season. That's why I don't use my telescope. It's like oh no. I had to go back on the bus within five days. That's my ticket. I find this asteroid. Five days I've had to deal with the rain. Roy had taken recent photos photo with his telescope and the skies were clear so vs Newport over those while he waited for a break in the clouds another challenge to summertime asteroid. Hunting is the bright right plane of the Milky Way where most of the stars and other material that make up. Our Galaxy is gathered dominates the sky that avenue of starlight can wash out. The fainter painter reflected light of passing asteroids. Almost the worst time of the year to find out -TROIT's lot of professional service. Avoid looking at the Milky Way because the algorithms that they use to automatically find ashtrays and handle the contamination from background stars on the pictures they take but then I realized the Milky Way is not a uniform. Dense clouds stars it as these dark clouds. These dark clouds in the Milky Way that provide us a black background Akron or asteroids crystals using this technique vs new start finding asteroids whenever the monsoon clouds parted long enough for him to take photos of the milky. Way's dark clouds. But the asteroids he saw had been discovered already in his goal was to find a new one he managed to extend his Greyhound bus ticket a few more days to keep searching. He worked for twenty hours a day looking through photos taken to the telescope and reporting every asteroid. He spotted then on the fourth of July his friend. Roy brought him some news boy. Hey look thank you. Founded asteroid huddled in front of the computer monitor and then he said here's an email from the minor planet center cheering house for finding asteroids. and He sure there was a bunch of numbers and there was one number that had a parenthesis on one inside that indicates that the new discovery and I looked at that you know being Indian. I thought they'd be ceremony certificate. Now he's like like that's all you get because people are finding APPs by a dozen so you can't have ceremonies all the time not like back in the eighteen hundreds so I was relieved. It's like okay. That was waiting for the email for or five years. Now I was in Tucson. I thought it would be good chance to go see Tom. garrels been showing the email. So Roy and I went to interest of Arizona the next day okay and I knocked on Tom Girls Door. Tom was shocked. You literally. I love his chair and he's up yours at journalists guy from India. Either member me after five. Just pray and I told him this whole story shorting email and he was completely blown away he said look. You proved your point. I think you have this month persistent to stick something that long long. You should try and go back to school and get a PhD in these new back to India before his visa expired and eventually return to the United States as a student student. I realized that there were a lot of people finding asteroids and there were not many people studying what they were made us. Astronauts headed our way. You want to know as much information. That's possible beyond the fact that it might hit us so characterization as they call it is equally important as discovering asteroids so there were two places in the. US were they were doing characterization using spectroscopy which is basically studying how the light reflected off. His asteroid is changing because of the minerals are the material that is on. The ASTROTURF is kind of like fingerprinting asteroids based on their composition. and was that might be the other one was that the University of North Dakota go to and I knew my background they would be hard to get into MIT. So I just applied to University of North Dakota. North Dakota was a world away from India in many ways. But Vishnu thrive there and got both a master's degree and a PhD and then went on to postdoctoral studies in Germany and Hawaii. Then in twenty eleven. Tom garrels passed away after a long career that included the discovery of thousands of asteroids and being the scientists in charge of a camera Anastas Pioneer Ten and eleven spacecraft that flew do piter and Saturn. The University of Arizona eventually began looking for a new planetary scientists. Continue Tom's legacy to somebody about this is my job I need to bake. I was not expecting. I would get it because a lot of really good planetary scientists in the field but I guess death me. It took me eighteen years from that lecture. That Tom Girls gave could be getting his former job now. Now Vishnu is in a position to affect the destiny of a new generation of space enthusiasts or me enthusiasm energy count a lot more than somebody with the top grade so I always tend to pick students who are non traditional like I was and give them opportunity because life is about giving opportunities a lot of people. Give me second chances so I have to pass that down the way I look at it. We have very short time in this world. Typically people start working in their twenties start kind of winding down late fifties. So it's a very brief time to make an impact on this world so choosing a problem or an issue that if you want to dedicate yourself very important and that's something I tell my students. There's so many great problems but you have to pick something that is meaningful something where you can actually concert good and so for me asteroid the the threat to our existence on the Earth doing asteroids planets if we can answer the question he's been aspect that it's out there that can impact the earth within our lifetimes. And can we find it. I think that's an important manser anytime you can make science improve human life or life in general on the earth it makes it all the more worthwhile One of the biggest challenges to tracking down dark rocks and the blackness of space is spotting the meagre amounts of sunlight they reflect. Luckily visible. Light isn't the only kind kind of light in the universe. Asteroid Hunters have other arrows in their quiver or rather other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum to help bag their prey. Microwaves for instance shorter wavelength of light. Than what your eyes can see beyond heating up your food in microwave oven. Microwave help us study asteroids rates as noted earlier radar antenna that bounced microwaves. Often asteroid can give us a better picture of what an asteroid looks like and how it behaves in its its orbit around the Sun. Here's amy minds are an astronomer. Who helps the see the universe with new eyes so we see the rainbow of colors all the way from red to purple and everything in between? But that's actually only a very tiny fraction of kinds of light that are out there and the different colors millions and millions of other different colors that we simply can't proceed with our eyes but we perceive them in other ways for example ultraviolet light. We know it's there as a human being because we can get sunburns. That's how we interact with ultraviolet violet on the opposite side infrared lights light. That's rather than the RETA spread. Your eyes can see that we perceive as heat so when you feel the warmth of the sun on your skin that warm feeling comes from infrared light from the sun that your skin is absorbing for astronomers we love to look at the universe and all kinds of different wavelengths of light infrared wavelengths or longer than. Microwaves and they've also been helpful. In spotting asteroids amy worked on NASA's Wise Space Telescope which made a map of the entire Sky Sky at infrared for wise the particular applications we were really interested in were to look for these extremely cool types of stars that are sort of halfway between a star in a planet and we call them Brown dwarfs these are things that are almost like failed stars if you will. They're stars at aren't quite massive enough to really shine super brightly like the Sun. Neither are they completely like Jupiter either which is a gas giant. So there's kind of somewhere in the middle so this particular set of wavelengths was really tuned for finding finding these ultra cool brown dwarfs and we can pick them out against a huge number of confusing objects so the to longer wavelengths on wise are really optimized for finding things that are around room temperature we think of space is either being extremely cold or brutally hot but sometimes there's stuff that is sort of in the the middle and that's what these wavelengths of light can be good for sensing things that are around room. Temperature put up most of their energy at these longer. Wavelengths between ten and twenty microns funds for reference. I always think of human is seeing around half a micron. That's roughly were visible. Light is so if you take an asteroid which is a chunk of rock and and you park it at the same distance from the Sun as the earth. It's going to warm up to a similar temperatures the earth and that means it's going to radiate really brightly between ten and twenty microns so even the wise wasn't originally looking for asteroids when it was designed it turns out is pretty good at it. Scientists looking at wise images were able to pick out asteroids stories from Brown dwarfs and other room temperature objects in space because over a series of five images the asteroids chains position compared to the more stationary background stars stars asteroids significantly brighter an infrared than they are invisible. Light making them pop out more an images by scanning the sky in four different infrared channels wise was like the alien in the movie Predator tracking down its prey by its heat signature. The dog wants us in the infrared. It's harder for asteroids to hide and as a space space based Observatory. Wise could go hunting around the clock regardless of the time of day or cloudy weather that limits observers on earth launched in two thousand a nine the wise mission discovered over thirty four thousand new asteroids and comets in less than a year but the missions lifespan was limited. It was only meant to operate eight for six months plus a one month checkout period with the two longest wavelengths in particular. We can't have the telescope in the detectors be warm because they was sort of blind themselves with their own heat so you can imagine if you try to see the stars in daytime. It's pretty hard. You really can't see very much so in our case the telescope and the instrument had to be cooled down to about eight degrees above absolute zero to get those two longest wavelengths channels to work and that required this frozen solid hydrogen so it was basically a couple of tanks full of this hydrogen hydrogen ice. And it didn't last forever. It actually lasted longer than was supposed to buy a few weeks which was great all total. They think it lasted around eight months or so so in that time we were able to make this all sky map of the sky and then after that when the hydrogen finally gone we lost the operability of the two longest waving channels but it turned out that the two shorter wavelength infrared channels kept working because even though we were orbiting the earth the wise mission is designed like giant. Thermos this bottle. It's really well insulated from the heat of the earth and even though we couldn't keep it quite cold enough to keep those longest channels operating the two short ones. Were still doing. Just fine at about seventy five Kelvin. Which is seventy five degrees with absolute zero? That's still really really cold by human beings standards the two longest wavelengths were really the best I would say at finding the asteroids but we still get a lot of detections in the two shorter wavelength channels to in particular for the warmer near Earth. Objects the ones that are closer to the sun on when the hydrogen finally was all gone late in the fall twenty ten. We actually were able to keep going for few extra months just enough time to make one complete complete survey of the inner part of our solar system with the too short wavelengths and that led us fill out our map of the asteroids so after that we thought well. That's it that's the end. We put the telescope into hibernation. So basically put it into a state where it was sleeping Democrats. The science data analysis would just getting going right and so in a lot of ways. That's really the fun part to go through that net and see all the wonderful things that you find it turns out the one of the very last thing we discovered was an interesting little guy called called twenty ten t k seven which is the first known Earth Trojan Asteroid. And what that means is it's asteroid. It's kind of sharing the Earth's orbit around around the Sun. It's SORTA gravitationally trapped by the earth and it gets dragged along with the earth effectively so we have a little friend and that was really fascinating discovery so in any event as we were analyzing all of this data actually came back to us and said we would like you to see what it would take to turn it back on again and this time just use it for looking for near Earth objects at this point. The wise telescope had been in hibernation for over a year so turning it back on again with something of a gamble. It's like if you find an old laptop in a cause it you wonder okay is is GonNa start but it did it. Did it had warmed up because we weren't actively controlling it's pointing anymore. It had gotten up to a couple of hundred Kelvin. The way we get it to keep cold right now is we have to. Continuously pointed away from the Earth. We want to look at deep space. The darkest parts base that we can so when we put it into hibernation. We stopped doing that. Active control of the pointing so basically half of every orbital. The telescope was looking right at the Earth or nice and toasty room temperature so the telescope did get pretty warm but the neat thing about this is our physics predictions. Had said that you know if you just stop looking at the earth. It'll eventually cool back down after a few months and that's exactly what it did it cooled back down to where it was before and still at about seventy I five Kelvin. The rebooted wise mission was given a new name Neo wise and dedicated to searching for asteroids comets that come close to our planet. It's it's just really neat because when you have the heat signatures coming off of these asteroids comets you can use that to learn a whole bunch of different things that you can't otherwise get out very easily once you know its orbit and you know how far away it is if you can measure the heat that comes off a bit surface now. We can figure out using math. How big that surfaces assists and that lets us tell some very valuable information because for things that get close to the earth we really would like to know how big they are? If an object these larger it could potentially pack more of an impact punch but we also want to look at the more distant objects because the near Earth objects one thing we know about them. Is there a fairly temporary population. If you put an object in the space around the earth it doesn't stick around for that long well. On Astronomer Timescales these with objects are only stable for a few millions to tens of millions of years so they either collide with a planet. Sometimes it's hours. They can get pulled into the sun or they can kind of get kicked back out in the very outer cold parts of the solar system so they don't stick around which means the fact that we see them today that suggests that they are continuously getting resupplied from different source populations either in the main asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter or potentially also from the comet population so coming in from way way farther out so one of the things we like to do is try to compare the properties of asteroid populations to see. Where might they have come from in the first place and asteroids color provides one point of comparison and asteroids are very very great by most people's standards and even the so-called red ones are really mostly great when we look at them with our eyes? If you really stretch the color you can start to see very subtle differences in the colors. It's like picking out paint color at the hardware store. If you decided to paint a wall asteroid gray array you could select one that is more reddish grey or bluish gray and this one's a little warmer shade and this one's a cooler shape exactly so if we can combine the infrared light light with visible light. Now we can tell the difference between light colored objects and dark colored objects because the problem is when we look at these objects with visible light alone. If we don't have any other measurements we can get confused. Basically an object that is very light colored but small looks the same brightness in visible light as an object. That's really large but has very dark color on its surface and one thing we've learned about asteroids from looking at wise and other telescopes is that there's a huge range of variation nations between asteroid brightness. Some of them are super duper dark. There is darkest printer toner or charcoal and others are really bright like a freshly paved sidewalk. Almost I saw this confusion between light. Small objects and large dark ones is a real problem if all you can do is measure them with visible light whereas if you have other techniques like infrared or asteroid radar observations that can give you a much better idea of the true size of the object. And when you start to put these techniques techniques altogether now in addition to the size you can also get the reflectively which tells you something about the object is made out of although the neo. Wise mission is currently NAFTA's only only space telescope dedicated to studying near Earth Asteroids and comets. Its days are numbered. This telescope was only supposed to last for seven months right. It's just like an old car at this point. You know every day is a gift so it'll keep working for a little longer but eventually it will finally becoming operable. What determines how long this particular ticket telescope will stay in? Earth orbit is dragged from the atmosphere. And now we're orbiting roughly around five hundred kilometers above the surface of the earth. But they're still a tiny any little bit of atmosphere even up that high and that produces drag which eventually is going to cause the telescope to burn up in the atmosphere in about twenty twenty four. But before then and what's starting to happen is the plane of the orbit is starting to twist. And we're losing altitude. The Telescope's orbit will degrade to the point where we won't be able to keep the sun or the earth out of the telescope and at that point presumably that'll be the end of it. Eventually it'll become the thing is looking for. It's going to become a shooting star Star. Someday it'll be sad to see neo wise streak back down to Earth but amy and her colleagues already have their sights set on the next generation asteroid hunter are key thing was to just really leverage the lessons. We've learned from wise but make it an even wider field of view telescope so we can really cover lots of sky all at the same time and the other thing is we like the mission to last a long time and because of the cried in that we had to use with wise those two longest wavelengths the ones is where the asteroids and comets really really right. It didn't last that long. And that's just because when you have to get eight Kelvin. Eight degrees above absolute zero. That's very difficult to do. It requires that you use a very elaborate type of refrigerator or you have to use CRICHTON and both of those are expensive and difficult. And they don't last as long so we've taken taken the detectors used in the two short wavelengths by wise and we've adopted them though that they work at wavelengths that are almost as long as the longest wavelengths on wise. But they don't need to. CBS Cold they can get by with Being Forty Kelvin. which is still really really really cold Kim and so if we can park the telescope just a little farther away then we he can hit that forty Kelvin temperature so just outside the orbit of the Moon there these two magical orbit points from my point of view called the lagrange points and these are semi stable able places where if you put a spacecraft there it will tend to stick their and as the earth goes around the sun the space craft kind of gets swept along with it so we're both orbiting the sun on but the space craft is staying very close to the earth and from our perspective? Were just far enough away that the heat from the earth doesn't have such an impact as it doesn't wise but but at the same time it's close enough that we can get all those wonderful pixels back and we can have streaming video effectively from the space craft. If it gets too far away what eventually starts to happen is it gets really hard to transmit data coming. It's kind of no good having wanted pixels if you can't get the data back because you're so far away so over the last gosh. Since around. Two thousand three our team has been working on these detector arrays to try to stretch the wailings out and make them longer and longer so that they can hit those wavelengths where the astros a really bright and yet not have to be so cold. The earliest possible date for this new space telescope is twenty twenty four if it does launch than it'll help us push beyond beyond our human limitations revealing new shades of these small rocks that look to our is like so many tiny twinkling stars in training the next week for a final episode of season. Two we go full circle back to the beginning. When asteroids and comets I became a major concern for NASA? It really did here. We really did get data at spot. We predicted so it looks like we're GonNa the half twenty more of these impacts to observe and sure enough as they grew fragments hit you saw the Hubble Space Telescope images big spots and Jupiter. If you like this podcast please subscribe rate us on your favorite podcast platform in Sheriff on social media where on a mission. A podcast of Nasr's Jet Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

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