19 Episode results for "University Of California Santa Cruz"

A Day on Saturn

Innovation Now

01:29 min | 2 years ago

A Day on Saturn

"Exactly how long is a day on Saturn. The answer. It turns out was hidden in the rings. This is innovation now bringing you stories behind the ideas that shave our future the link of day on Saturn has long been a mystery the planet has no solid surface with landmarks to track as it rotates, and it's unusual magnetic field hides the planet's rotation rate as the interior of Saturn vibrates, however, the rings of Saturn detect those movements creating waves instruments on Nasr's Cassini spacecraft examined the icy rocky rings of Saturn in unprecedented detail before the mission ended in late twenty seventeen a team from Nasr's Ames research center, and the university of California Santa Cruz have used the Cassini data to study the wave patterns in the rings and calculate the length of day. Researchers. Now that a year on Saturn is equal to twenty nine earth years. And now the team is excited to report that the link of a Saturn day is ten hours thirty three minutes and thirty eight seconds for innovation. Now. I'm Jennifer poet innovation. Now is produced by the National Institute of aerospace through collaboration with NASA and is distributed by w HR V. Visit us online at innovation now dot US.

Nasr National Institute of aerospac university of California Santa Ames research center NASA thirty eight seconds thirty three minutes ten hours
Telling Time on Saturn

Innovation Now

01:29 min | 2 years ago

Telling Time on Saturn

"Exactly how long is a day on Saturn. The answer. It turns out was hidden in the rings. This is innovation now bringing you stories behind the ideas that shave our future the link of day on Saturn has long been a mystery the planet has no solid surface with landmarks to track as it rotates, and it's unusual magnetic field hides the planet's rotation rate as the interior of Saturn vibrates, however, the rings of Saturn detect those movements creating waves instruments on Nasr's Cassini spacecraft examined the icy rocky rings of Saturn in unprecedented detail before the mission ended in late twenty seventeen a team from Nasr's Ames research center, and the university of California Santa Cruz have used the Cassini data to study the wave patterns in the rings and calculate the length of day. Researchers. Now that a year on Saturn is equal to twenty nine earth years. And now the team is excited to report that the link of a Saturn day is ten hours thirty three minutes and thirty eight seconds for innovation. Now. I'm Jennifer poet innovation. Now is produced by the National Institute of aerospace through collaboration with NASA and is distributed by w HR V. Visit us online at innovation now dot US.

Nasr National Institute of aerospac university of California Santa Ames research center NASA thirty eight seconds thirty three minutes ten hours
Astronomers Turn to AI as New Telescopes Come Online - Ep. 83

The AI Podcast

22:20 min | 2 years ago

Astronomers Turn to AI as New Telescopes Come Online - Ep. 83

"The. Hello. And welcome to the Invidia a podcast. I'm your host Noah Kravitz, how to galaxies and cosmological structures form evolve. What is the nature of dark matter? And can we understand the reorganization of the intergalactic medium? No. We haven't changed our names of the Invidia astro-physics podcast. Instead, these are the questions that greet visitors to Brent Robertson's website, an associate professor at the university of California Santa Cruz in the marine and Jon Hendricks visiting professor at the institute for advanced study in Princeton New Jersey, aka the place where Stein hung out when he was in the states brand areas of research read like a who's who? And what what things I don't understand pretty site. To learn about over the next twenty minutes theoretical topics related to galaxy formation dark matter hydrodynamics and numerical simulation methodologies brand session here. GTC twenty nineteen is titled A and astro-physics applying artificial intelligence and deep learning. Astronomical research. And that's what we're here to talk about a and Astra physics, professor Robertson. Thanks for making the time to join the podcast. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me today. So I feel like I'm done here. Because I read all that stuff. I thought it made you know, kind of an amusing introduction. But you're deep in it. And I'm gonna start with the basic question. What is Astra physics astrophysics is the study of physical processes that occur in the universe around us, so astronomy, which is part of physics is the observational tools and methods that we use to look at things in the universe to look at galaxies to look at stores to look at larger skills in the universe. Astrophysics is trying to understand the detailed physics of what's going on in the universe. So it combines together astronomy and physics into a single discipline. So you worked on the Hubble telescope project name that folks like me from a while back and then for about five years, you were co-chair of an organization using data from. Something called the large synoptic survey telescope with the aim of better understanding, how galaxies form and evolve. So Enlai terms if you can tell us what these types of instruments do and when deep learning became a part of your toolbox and important to using the data you collect from them. Yeah. That's that's a great thing to talk about. So the Hubble space telescope has been kind of the workhorse instrument in astronomy since it was launched its it's a Bill now in so now, there's some new facilities that are starting to come on line. One of which you mentioned is the large surveys synoptic survey telescope elyssa Steve Ray, we always go by acronyms. We don't care. I should I should. So so Ellis's tea, which is still under development and will be coming online in the next few years will take an image of the entire southern sky every three days digital image. And so this is a huge amount of information terabytes of information every single day or generated by this facility. We're interested in learning about the galaxies in the stars. That are in these images. What they tell us about how galaxies evolve with time with the large-scale properties of the universe. Are what's in the universe dark matter, which is this kind of mysterious material that doesn't interact with light and the dark energy, which is another mysterious material that's causing the universe to expand more rapidly. So we want to see what's in these images and today when people go and take a picture of galaxy often they know what they're pointing at the point at a specific Alex not doing a survey of the whole sky, Pat like we will be doing. So they already know what they're looking at before they take the picture now, we're going to take a. A huge picture of the sky this building from the Sloan digital skyser, which was the first guy survey else's tea has very much bigger telescope has a very much larger camera. So the data rate is just or miss. So if you wanna see what's in the any speakers that we're taking how can a human do that right or how can even the entire internet go out there to that? So their their existing projects like galaxies ouza famous one where people go online, and they open up a browser. And they say, oh, I think this is a discography this is ROY galaxy. But now with this enormous digital data said we can use to do that for us at a at a rate and at scale that just is not possible for individuals to do. And Furthermore, we can actually get additional information out that humans aren't very good at getting. So we can actually go at the pixel level these images in their billions and billions of pixels in these images the ram taking and go to every single individual pixel and try to catch. Ago is what we think that pixel. What information's there is that pixel part of the background sky is doesn't have anything in it. Or is it part of discovery that pixel itself not just the whole galaxy. But what is the probability that that pixel is in a discolored theorist Royal galaxy and why is this important galaxies complex? They have different properties. So disguising might have a bulge at the center. You might wanna toll those things accord, we call the semantic segmentation. World this exactly what we're doing? So it's you know, it's applying techniques that are well trod already within a but two data sets that are at astrophysical in their nature. So this this I don't know if this is a fair question or not. But it's my my brain's attempt to start wrapping itself around where you're talking about. When you're talking about these images with billions of pixels and getting down to the individual pixel level to extract information, what does one pixel represent in terms of square miles or whatever the. You know, so strong numbers us ridiculous. It's because the skills are so so incredibly massive so a single pixel might represent a scale that say three or five thousand light years across in some of these scholars so there's there's long timers and gas every single pixel, and what's neat is that this changes the colors of the pixels. So if you look at an image, of course, when you see one of these beautiful Hubble space telescope images, those have been massaged. So they take the raw data that comes out. They do some through their processing to make it kind of scientific quality. And then they take those scientific images, and then they assign colors to those individual bands. Okay. So this is actually the way that many people have already applied to astronomy, they've taken just jape peg picture of galaxy and feted into you know, inception or one of these other frameworks that have been trained on image. And that actually tells you, you know, this is a galaxy. It's a type of galaxy. But what it doesn't do is this Samantha segmentation? And so my student Ryan housing who is a student UC Santa Cruz and the computer science department has developed this new framework called morpheus, which is basically a unit for those the know what that is. And what it does is it takes in the raw images while the science grade images off the telescope in their original formats, you don't have to process it into J peg, you just feed it into the unit, and it does this per pixel classification based on both of the features that the, you know, the framework learned in the image, but also the colors of the pixels because we have multi wavelength, the the color of the light the wavelength of the light. We have multiple of those images from HSE or from these futures facilities, and then we can use that to have even more information that we're getting out. So so to quell their dozens of quite into my head, but to pertinent how long does it take to process? One of these these science great images through this. Work. And how do you know either? What you're looking for. Maybe better question is how do you know, how do you determine accuracy, these are excellent questions? And actually, that's what is really important about what we're doing. I think a dressing both of these issues. So we have to be able to analyze these entire data sets. However, we also wanna maintain a high level of accuracy in what we learned was if we just supply a single image to the framework the the framework on the per pixel level was not necessarily very accurate. Okay. So what? Instead, we do is we reprocess every image many many times by shifting basically union on a stride by pixel by pixel. So this gives us a distribution of the classifications of any given pixel in the image. And this allows us to make some quality cuts to figure out when the model is working when it's not, and we can get more reliable information out that way, we can test that accuracy by comparing with the way that. Humans of classified the galaxies that we can actually do more specific tests where we can look at data sets where people have taken Hubble space telescope, data and identified all the galaxies down to some brightness level of the galaxy. And then we can see how well our model recreates that how how it detects all of those galaxies or not the completeness we call it of that model, and that's something that most people don't pay attention to and what Ryan Howson's been able to show with his work is that the completeness of this deep learning framework is actually as good as the standard techniques, and it works well beyond where it's been trained. So let's say we only look at bright galaxies and we train on the brightest. Biggest galaxies will actually still find many of the smallest Venus galaxies. We know of all very cool how much and maybe it's not a how much compute power. Do you need to do this? But is crunching the amount of data you're working with right now with that have been possible two three five years ago. No. So, you know, the largest sized images we've been doing. Today there a hundred million or close to a billion pixels on what we're gonna have to scale up to bring much larger. We're not using that many resources right now. So I have a DIGI one DIGI x one system. That's where we do a lot of our processing. So we do both our training and our processing of images there the training. You know, it's a few weeks to do. And then the processing because we do this reprocessing the images many times, it's lower than just getting us Ingle number out. But we actually get huge amount of more information out, a shard the process to the you know, that will continue to scale, and we'll be able we've we've shown that we can scale to these big images and do them, you know, the whole sky in a month or something, you know, completely tractable. So that's exciting. You dig a little bit too to your story, and we're talking with Brent Robertson. He's an astrophysicist he serves as associate professor at UC Santa Cruz, and he's also the marine and Jon Hendricks visiting professor at the institute for advanced study in Princeton, New Jersey, so before come. Into UC Santa Cruz, and and this fellowship, your professor at university of Arizona, and you've held a bunch of fellowships at top universities and research organizations before that. So you've been doing this kind of work for a while and a bunch of places where you always, and I always go to the as a kid, and it's interesting how many times people say, no. But were you interested in this stuff as a kid where you drawn to the skies? Did you know this is a path you wanted to follow? I was always kind of romantic. So when I was young wanted to be a poet or writer, I lived in Seattle at the time, I could not get a money to to go to school to do that. So I thought well instead what I'll do is. I'll get a scholarship to study physics and astronomy university of Washington, and then I'll fool everybody I'll go back and be a writer. But it didn't work out that way, I started liking astronomy. So then when it was time to ply to grad schools, I applied bunch of places I went to Harvard for grad school, and that's where I started really getting interested in computation a lot of different problems relation work. And when I was at Caltech as opposed to before I went to to Arizona started getting interested in GP's Jeep you programming. And then at Zona really started taking that work kind into the next level with one of my former students enshrined or who is now a post doc, fellow Dr Schneider at Princeton University in astrophysics, and we do a lot of large-scale simulations on summit and tighten these big large sheep even abled supercomputers by also working with with Ryan housing. So I've got to ask and this is kind of a it was a two part question. But it sort of third part is there. Intelligent life out there beyond earth. We have see laughing at me. It's okay. Or here's kind of the awful twist. Is there any chance? And I'm not trying to Jerry. I'm just know any chance that we're actually in a simulation being controlled by something else out there. And does my just asking that question. Make you just want to get up and leave. No, not at all. I think it's completely natural. And you should be asking the questions that you care about. You know, astronomy is it's it's one of these fields where you know, we're not we're not hearing cancer. We know that what we can do those address the big questions that no one else can answer. Now. You know, I think it's entirely possible in fact likely that there's intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. We don't have any great evidence of for that right now that does not mean that it's not out there in that. We can't look for it. And I'm supportive of you know, things like said, he, you know, the actual search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Astronomers you know, we think a bit differently. That's one of the things we bring to the table. We're used to thinking about the universe. Is this, you know, enormous place where we're. Versed in the richness of the universe and the diversity of other worlds. And it just seems unlikely at this stage that you know, that things here unique right ballpark figures. How many how many other galaxies are out there? How do you? How do you quantify? These tidy talk to somebody like me who says. Wow, you're this is what you do. So, you know, a billion pixels in their each this many light years like how much stuff's out there. Well, there's an infinite amount of stuff. That's that's the difficulty the universe itself in her models. Our way of thinking the universes affectively infinite on infant, but that doesn't mean that we can see out to distances. And the reason is that light has a finite travel time. So we can only see so far back into the universe. We say back because since late has a finite travel time when you see far away you're looking into the distant price. Now the universe is expanding. So the university, but that we can see that we've been able to see is a little bit larger than you might otherwise expected. You just said the universes thirteen point seven billion years old Ray. And like controls of far, but since the university and expanding actually further than that that we can see. And so there's a huge number of galaxies. I would not say countless within that volume, but very very large hundreds of billions of galaxies within that volume. Right. You know, when we look at a part of the sky like the whole altered field that you mentioned, which is the deepest ever image that we've been able to take that. I hope take their only tens of thousands of galaxies in that little tiny patch of the sky because it's a very very small fraction of the whole sky that we can see right. So one of the great things that Ellison T will do an actually there's a new telescope Nasr's developing called the Whitefield infrared survey telescope, I'm on the science working group for that working with NASA to help develop that project. That's a lot like L S T, it'll take wide area images of the sky. But it's powerful as aegis T for looking back into the distant powerful. And so that will launch sometime in the mid twenty twenty s so it'll be a digital space base image of a large patch of the southern. The sky, and and so it's very complementary to Ellis's -til deep over a somewhat smaller area, but still quite wide. And then we'll also have this huge shallower, but still fairly from the ground with elyssa St. so is is interesting important. Well, w I since it's in space the atmosphere doesn't blur out. The light C actually get these razors. Shirt pictures, just like h teahouse? But now you have it over thousands of square degrees. The moon is like square degree in the sky. So we'll have thousands of the time, you know, times the size of that with the resolution, the Hubble, and that's a huge amount of information for us, are you planning for advances in and GP another compute power that you're going to need them to be able to crunch data. Yeah. So that's why we're starting today. Yeah. You know, we're we're building morpheus with the idea that we're going to a apply it to L S T W. I when I go to W first meetings. I talk about this work and aware of and they know Nasr's very Ford. That's what NASA, and they understand that advances in computation are actually going to help them leverage this huge investment of billions of dollars into these facilities from. So they're excited about how big are these telescopes physically so Ellison T, which is on the ground is about eight meters across which is like twenty four feet across right? When that w I is a converted spy-satellites, and it is about the size of as Hubble space telescope has the same size mirror, but it's field of us. Very largely might wonder. Oh, well, you have a large mirror in a large field of you. If you point those those scopes toward earth, you can map out a large area of the earth. We're just turning one of them around right sentiment that the government gave NASA back at the sky rather than at a adversaries. So they're big telescopes. And w I you know is the size of Hubbell, but has a wider field. So I I have to point out and for the listeners recording this hotel conference room. I think second to top floor of this hotel. And I'm you're facing me. I'm facing you. There's a window behind you as you're speaking. I noticed beautiful rainbow coming out over the San Jose sky. I I like to look for these signs and things as you were talking. I was kind of like, oh, yeah. This is this is a good stuff. Well, it's it's. Exactly. So if you look back on your work today work you've done work you've seen in in the field. Is there anything about the application of AI deep learning that kind of stuff in particular that stands out either as surprising to you? And or kind of milestone moments to kind of push your work forward. Well, so Ganz very important. The idea that you could boil down in image to a list of numbers than regenerate image. You know, from that list of numbers of that actually builds on technique that we PCA technique that we use on the Strada me a lot. But you know with these non linear functions in the neural net. It's a different, but it's similar in this way. And this this is going to be important because one of the things we don't know how to do yet. Very well that we're actually very interested in doing is applying Ganz to to the sky, you know, if we want to take an image of deep space over the whole sky, what does that? Well, we know what small patches of look like, and we could actually use principle things like Ganz to generate, you know, a fake image, turn sky and use that to train ourselves on what the real data's is going to look. So today, we could be engineering the kind of analysis tools that will need to address, you know, w I eight or lss t- data by using simulated images that have been created using Ganz something, I'm I'm interested in doing soon, I still need to learn a lot to get there. But I think the the tool set is there today. So we know you're working on that w I t which is plenty as far as I'm concerned, but any other any other things you're working. I forgot to mention the James Webb space telescope Oklahoma, which is another fantastic instrument. So James Webb in some ways is the direct successor of Hubble. So James webs, a six point five meter, so you know, twenty feet across roughly space telescope that will peer back to the very earliest times. In the university mentioned realization, which is an event that we don't have the deal and that happened during the first billion years of cosmic history. Okay. J W S WS James Webb space telescope will be able to image galaxies at the very earliest times happened before. Well, so it's building from the Hobo ultra deep field them. We did before which found some the most distant galaxies. Now will be able to find them in abundance. Okay. Jada USD. So I'm a part of a team that will execute a program in the first year that Jacob use launches to to map out a fairly large area, the northern southern sky looking for galaxies that existed only a few hundred million years after the big bang. So this is something that will happen in twenty twenty one. And we're tremendously excited, it's a huge national investment of time. You know, either nine billion dollars have been used to Bill Jacob US TD. And this is what it's designed to do this kind of sign. So I'm really excited about ten tastic for. Folks who want to find out a little bit more about this many amazing things you're working on are the places online. You can direct them. Oh, sure. Well, they can give me on Twitter. My name's brands underscore Robertson is my tag on Twitter. Also, my website at UC Santa Cruz. Robertson dot cites dot UCSE EDU. That's my research groups website. I'm I'm the head of the computational Astro physics research group at UC Santa Cruz tastic. I wish we had more time, frankly, but Brandt appreciate you coming on the show, it'll be a wonderful GTC. And obviously, you know, best of luck with finding out more about without their pay. Thanks so much for having.

UC Santa Cruz professor Robertson NASA Ganz Jon Hendricks Steve Ray associate professor visiting professor Ellis James Webb university of California Santa Bill Jacob US Twitter Invidia Noah Kravitz Ryan Howson co-chair Astra Hubble
Desalination Could Cause Ecological Sea Change

60-Second Science

02:33 min | 2 years ago

Desalination Could Cause Ecological Sea Change

"This is scientific American sixty seconds science. I'm Christopher Dodd Yata. Winter storms have Wallops California this year and snowpack is piling up. But just a few years back. The state was wrung dry by a record breaking drought and more dry. Spell's will surely come. I think everybody agrees that we need more water resources Edina Peyton an oceanographer at the university of California Santa Cruz. She points out that her home country. Israel wants face the same problem real had border issues for ever and ever, and they don't have water problems anymore because they converted pretty much ninety percent of water use to diesel ination ocean. Desalination hasn't enjoyed as much traction in California due to its cost and because of concerns that the plants would damage coastal ecosystems. Both win the sea water sucked in and win. Leftover super salty Brian's are released now writing in the journal water Peyton inner team have. Fest. The environmental impact of the nation's largest plant the Carlsbad deceleration plan north of San Diego. Here's the good news scuba dives revealed that the communities of starfish snails seek you comers and other creatures that live on the sandy ocean. Bottom offshore have not budged since the plant opened in twenty fifteen but the bad news, the plume of salty runoff stayed intact. Much farther out than models predicted rather than easily blending with closer seawater. When you have a pool of salty water that doesn't make it prevents oxygen from penetrating which can cause lower oxygen levels close to the bottom. And obviously all the organisms that need box. Dejan are not going to be happy. You can systems offshore from the Carlsbad plant where are ready disturbed by cooling water discharge from a power plant at the same site. She says which could explain why the marine life was unfazed. But it more pristine sites, especially those rich in biodiversity like kelp forests assault. T- plume might do. More harm, the states already planning more ocean desalination projects up and down the coast and Peyton says her lesson is this there's tons of water in the ocean, and we can use it. We just have to do it responsibly. First step updating our models of how salty wastewater behaves offshore to ensure that our thirst for drinking water doesn't cause an ecological CJ. Thanks for listening for scientific American sixty seconds science. I'm Christopher Don. Yata?

Christopher Dodd Yata Carlsbad California university of California Santa Peyton Christopher Don Israel Dejan San Diego assault Brian sixty seconds ninety percent
Ceph Storage System with Sage Weil

Software Engineering Daily

54:55 min | 1 year ago

Ceph Storage System with Sage Weil

"Seth is a storage system that can be used for provisioning. Object Storage Block storage and file storage. These storage primitives can be used as the underlying medium for databases queuing systems and bucket. Storage CEPHAS. Used in circumstances where the developer may not want to use public cloud resources like Amazon S. three as an example consider telecom infrastructure telecom companies that have their own data centers need software layers. Which make it simpler for the operators and developers that are working with that infrastructure to spin up databases and other abstractions with the same easy experience? That's provided by a cloud provider such as aws sage. Weil has been a core developer on Steph. Since two thousand five and the company that he helped start around. Seth sold to Red. Hat for one hundred and seventy five million dollars. Sage joins the show to talk about the engineering behind. Seth and his time spent developing companies. I had a great time talking to sage. You can find all of our old episodes about open source distributed systems projects by going to software daily Dot Com. We've got more than fifteen hundred episodes about these different subjects and we also have a new feature where you can write about some of these different topics if you're interested in having an interactive learning process. You can go to software daily Dot Com slash right when you spend your spare time learning. You can accelerate your career. O'reilly lets you learn through high quality. Books VIDEOS COURSES AND INTERACTIVE EXPERIENCES. O'reilly content has been built over decades. They're are trusted source of effective technology education. If you're an individual leveling up on your own you can use a riley to chart a course for your career goals and if you manage a team or a company you can get access to Riley's career development resources for your whole organization go to software engineering daily Dot Com slash O'Reilly to explore O'Reilly's e learning experiences. You can build the skills you need to future proof your career software engineering daily Dot Com Slash O'Reilly and thank you to a Riley for being a partner with software engineering daily for many years. Now ARP STAGE. Welcome to the show. Thanks thanks for having me. You started seth in two thousand five. What were your initial goals with project? Two Thousand Four. Actually it'll happen in Grad school. I went to University of California Santa Cruz. And my first year there got involved in this storage research group and was specifically tasked with figuring out how to do distributed metadata management for the sort of pet abide scale star system. They're trying to design so all started that summer. I did a internship at Lawrence livermore national apps and that was where the first line of code is written initially sort of as a well. I've read a prototype simulator in Java previously discipline show that the overall approach dynamically balancing load across. Service would work but then that summer read the first line people's plus get that has turned into slash. The goal of that research group was to create a pedal bike scale. File System for supercomputing applications. So the research was funded by Department of Energy Los Alamos livermore Sandia and it was really targeting these ridiculous high performance computing codes. Where it's you know thousands of machines all doing some processing and then writing but to files of the same directory or to the same file or whatever. It is trying to build a file system that could that could deal with its applications. So that was the original motivation. Did you realize there would be widespread business? Applications TO DISTRIBUTED FILE SYSTEM AT THE TIME. Or were you mostly just concerned with these high performance computing applications? Not Initially as sort of pretty much sort of focused on that niche application. But before going to Grad School I was involved in Aleppo Startup Dream Host and so we done sort of Watt's Olympic space. What posting staff. We bought a bunch of naps and sort of you know we. We loved her first net APP because it's centralized storage. It was great to manage by the time we got to one hundred. It was a huge huge fan of the but I had some appreciation for what sort of the rest of the world needed in terms of storage and also that there is glaring gap in terms of what was available. That was open source where you had to go buy expensive enterprise systems and so it was sort of midway through. I think the whole critical process that sort of realized that this is a real need. An open source open infrastructure community. So we're really trying to create something that was both innovative and game changing within the storage field at itself regardless whether it's up but also to fill this gap any open source community. Tell me more about the bottlenecks Iran into at dream host. It was I think there. It was mostly sort of a management nightmare. I think the thing that we're trying to scale it's really just management of all this data so if you have thousands of servers and each one has a disc that risk gonNA fill up if one user data than you have all this stuff. Retrain move things around and there was just annoying. Then you had the problem or if you lost a disc than it was gone so centralizing storage would solve that but the systems at the time would only scale to be so big and so we're really focused on just making it as big as possible so we're architect the overall system just making sure that they were sort of no single points of failure for reliability and also no sort of glaring scale ability bottlenecks. So we'd be able to do it at the time. It was a really big number today. That's not so impressive anymore. But the same principles hold you wanna be able to create a very large sorenstam. Centralize everything in one pool. So the had better management and also as a result you know smarter. Data placement and replication. So on you could have overall higher reliability. Seth is a distributed storage system and that doesn't specify the interface of storing information. Seth can do object storage block storage and file storage. Can you give a brief overview of these different types of storage maybe the kinds of applications that users need these different types of storage systems for sure? So Seth actually started as just a file system and as we sort of built the whole thing. We realized that it's sort of generalized to creating servicing other. Api's as well but file is really the one that people are most. Comfortable with that files and directories. It's what you're used to on your desktop or any random winning system the goal is just really to have the store's not your server but amount or on your node but mounted on some centralized systems accessible from lots of different notes. So that's file people are usually using. Nfs Or systems that provide invest to talk to a remote storage in case we invented our own protocol to smarter and more efficient and scale better and all that stuff but in building the system we realized that the way that we are at the core of the cluster that manages the replication of data and so on used internally used an object based interface and we realized we could feel lots of other stuff on top of that besides just file system so the second piece to come along with block service called Rosbach device an idea. There is to take sort of virtual disk and you stripe it over lots of objects and then he started his objects in. Rados in the cluster. And the idea for this actually came from a community member and like two thousand eight or two thousand nine. I don't quite remember. They wrote a patch for Q immu. Acadian virtual machine hyper visor. That would present a virtual desktop virtual machine that was stored in sub cluster on Rados and we realized that was a great idea. We ended up rewriting the thing the library and doing lots of stuff and that eventually became very popular in the community. As sort of you know open source. Cloud computing infrastructure took off. They needed storage. For All these machines and stuff was the perfect thing because it was also scale out in open source then and sort of fit nicely into that gap and then the third piece is object storage which is in this context really means something with an S. three or S. rely. Kpi so they deal with storage is that you don't really have directories or files the closest thing to a file as an object but you just sorta dump it in. What's called bucket? Which is just a container for lots of objects and the semantics are a little different than files with file. You can revise it. You can append to it. You can update you could overwrite pieces of it. Objects are sort of targeting more static or immutable data. So you think things like J. ages or videos or other sort of content that you produce any post in it sits there and then maybe eventually deleted. Or maybe you don't like you're not really modify place men because the update semantics for optics are simpler. You don't have things like green. You don't have updates in place it's much easier to build an object storage system. That's very scalable. And sort of the limited things you can do with it also make it easier to replicate across multiple sites and things like eventual consistency as opposed to strict locking. It simplifies a lot of other components by having sort of simpler start interface. So if I'm building a block storage system or a file. Storage System on top of SAF is Steph. Using the underlying object storage system in each of those cases is the base storage system always object storage. Es It's confusing because there's sort of two layers and we use the word object for both of them. So the core of Seth. The sub clusters Rados which is basically all the sorts devices and the software that makes sure that data is placed in replicated across them and rate US stands for reliable at an mkx distributed object store and the things that we started. Rato's we call objects but they're very different than the objects that you would rate. Us objects are smaller. They're a few megabytes in size. And you can do lots of things to them. Gave more files in that. You can mutate them and you can. You can punch holes. You can do all sorts of stuff but rate US provides this object storage layer that sort of the internal interface and then on top of that we build a distributed file system that everything radios we have the rate of block device which stores everything Rados. And then there's the race gateway which gives you an S. three like object interface. That's restful and as you know multi terabyte objects and all the alcohols and permissions and all the stuff that has three does all that is backed by rate us so it's two different layers to different types of objects sort of confusing to explain to people but may sense but so that bottom layer of the Rados object storage layer that you can build these other kinds of abstractions on top of whether you want to build file storage one block storage. You want to build a user interface. Object storage kind of layer. Why is Rados that object storage system that was created for SAF? Why is that a useful base level of abstraction for these other systems? I think it captures sort of cells enough of the problem that it lets the things that sit on top of it. Simplify the way they think about the world so the interface that gives you is that you have pools of storage. There's logical collection of data. I guess and you can put you know billions trillions as many objects as you can store basically inside a pool and rate us handles all the details about what servers is it. Goto is going to be replicated where the replicas go if there's a failure rate from the replica migrated when I add storage I have to move around between servers all that stuff hidden by rate us and so things. That are consuming. Liberate us the sort of the abstraction layer all they have to think about as a pool which is sort of like an infinite generally sized thing that they can put data in and dodge. And as long as you know the name of the object was just a string then you can read the data and so then that's a very simple storage layer then having all this capability and reliability in software you. It's a very simple interface to cut something else to it. Sounds like lack of reliability is also a potential configuration like. Are there systems where you would want to configure your Rados to not replicate the Rato subjects? Yes and you can do that. You can set the replica. Count to one and so. There's no redundancy and people do that in certain cases it's just it's not very user friendly because when there is a data loss event because a dry fails or whatever then it's sort of awkward to recover because of the way that is designed so if you're a power user and you understand what's going on you understand that the application using that pool can tolerate data lasts than you can poke the cluster and basically say that subset of the data is gone and just reinvented but empty and if your application and deal with that then you can continue. But it's relatively uncommon for people to actually run a net in that scenario gut. It yeah so if you have this distributed object system or I guess if we're talking about the file system or the block storage system one of the higher level interfaces you have to manage both the data and the Meta data of the information. What kinds of Meta data does your storage system managing? How does that meditate to get managed? It's probably easiest to talk about it in terms of block since that's the simplest of three in that case most of what you're starting all data like you have virtual disk just breaking them into chunks and storing those objects in the system. The only real. Meta data is the names of the logical images or volumes that you're storing and properties about them when they were created. How big are they? What snapshots heavy created on them whether they're walked by a particular client? Who's accessing them? Things like that. What's writing strategy or using for that particular volume and so in our case we store those attributes on like one object that just has the meditate about one particular volume. That's sort of naturally scales and makes use of the raiders infrastructure in the case of the file system. It's more complicated. Because there's a of houses. Meta data the whole directory hierarchy in all the properties around files and I know it's ownership and quotas and all that stuff and so there's a whole different set of servers that manage the edited hierarchy and coordinate client access to data because in the case of file systems. You need to make sure that clients that are operating on the same file. Directory are sort of observing have a consistent view of of what the data and Meta data looks like while at the same time you WanNa sort of aggressively leases to client so that they can operate efficiently and they can cash things locally without talking to the server everytime and so Steph has pretty complicated protocol between the clients and the server in order to achieve both good caching behavior and also strong consistency so that you always have clearview consistent view of what's going on from the client perspective but in even though they have a dedicated set of demons that are sort of managing that file system namespace all the actual data stored back in. Rados so the filed that goes into regular rate US objects and Meta data about the file. Hierarchy goes into different pool in a different set of rid of subjects in that case actually are using a slightly different interface objects in rate. Us where they're starting value data inside that sort of logical object container in a system and this episode of software. Jane Daly is sponsored by data. Dog Data Dog integrates seamlessly with container technologies. Like docker and Coober Netease. So you can monitor your entire container. Cluster in real time. See across all of your servers containers APPS and services in one place with powerful visualizations sophisticated alerting distributed tracing and APM and now data dog has application performance monitoring for Java Star Monitoring Your Micro Services today with a free trial and as a bonus data will send you a free t shirt you can get both of those things by going to software engineering daily Dot Com slash data dog that software engineering daily Dot Com slash data dog. Thank you data dog if we think about a typical deployment of chef at a corporation are their users that are interfacing directly with. Saff or are there storage administrators that are building on applications or billing databases on top of SAF? How are end user applications? What's like the layer between the SEF? Cluster and the end user application. I think you have a full spectrum. Of maybe one of the most common cases you have like a private cloud infrastructure like open stack. That's being used by the organization and the only people who even know that they are necessarily or operating assessed by the people who run the cloud infrastructure and consumers at the infrastructure are just getting virtual machines with virtual disk attached so that there is at one end at the other end you have people who are. I don't know maybe they're doing big data analytics. Whatever and they're running operating the stuff. Cluster themselves alongside their you know spark or whatever else and they have more intimate knowledge of what what step closer is doing. And how it's how it's being used men. In a few cases we also have users and customers who even colder applications to use liberate us directly without going through the file system blocker S. three optic interface because they can get better efficiency by sort of reaching directly into the lower level storage interface and stuff and they have sort of a one application. That is very large scale ability and parallelism etiquette make sense. What are those applications like finance or trading or something? Yeah Yeah so you see some. Fsi people doing it. There's like an ISP in Australia. That built like a time. Series database was a nice p. It might have been like a power company or something that had like IOT power meters that were logging data. I don't know there've bunch of servants this more you just have lots. And lots of data objects. They're all sort of regular workload and it makes sense to said sort of dump it directly in Rados. There's a group here in Wisconsin. That's site associated NASA. That's taking satellite imagery and they're dumping it directly and liberate us just because it was relatively trivial to on buildings and just stick directly and then they didn't have to worry about the intervening file system or object layers so the example you gave of. Maybe I'm running a big open stack deployment. Let's say I'm a telecom data center and I've got a big storage cluster of SEF machines and the interface for application developers who are deploying into that telecom data center there just seeing open stack and open stack is exposing some storage interface. And if I need to set up a database for my application my sequel database the my sequel database just provision interfacing with open. Stack an open stack. It takes care of the underlying communications with Steph. Right and what is that interface? If we're talking about like an interface between Open Stack and SAF. What does open stack request from the underlying? Safe storage cluster. So open sack. Has a whole project called Cinder? His job is basically to be this intermediary by presenting generic interface to open tenants delay request block storage and manage the attachment of that block storage to your actual virtual machines and then cinder has centered. Project has all these back end plug? Ins by various projects and vendors that interface with the backend storage systems. Case there's you know assess rb d driver in Cinder that implements all of the API hooks and makes calls out harvey to trigger other write operations. There's a similar interface for the Cuban as community called CSI container storage interface. That's sort of new creek volume attach volume the volume quit snapshot create cloned from Snapshot. Yada Yada it's good for these ecosystems because everybody consuming the storage has a simple interface to consume and then the various systems can sort of plug in on the back side. But there's always been this sort of advantage to open source storage systems to implement these interfaces because when you're deploying an open source scalable infrastructure tool you don't WanNa have to go buy something to run on sided. It's nice to be used. The open source sort solution as well and so in many cases steph tense get deployed by default with open stack and grenades and so on and of course there are these multiple underlying physical disks that actually hold the data and these different discs are managed by the Steph. Object Storage Demon. What are the responsibilities of that demon process that runs across your underlying discs? So the it's called the optic storage demon. We're on basically one per desk. Esti in a system and its job is to be the inner mere intermediary for data ever written or read from that disc so in the simplest case if you want to read some data request goes the OCD pulls it off the disk and it sends it back the most of its complexity there is actually around all the reliability and redundancy so the know how to talk to other US tease sort of understand what data they're storing and whether they're the primary replica or secondary replica. And where the replicas are stored so that if you do a write operation the data goes to the I O St. It knows that it needs to be forty two others all three have to commit that change to disk and then before an acknowledgment is sent back to the client. Or if a disc is added to the cluster node fails or something like that and data needs to move around than the understands where the data was and where it's going and so they can sort of in a peer to peer fashion coordinate the migration of data to its new preferred location in a system. And then I guess the last piece they do. Is THEY UNDERSTAND? What THE LADDER. The data on the disc itself so in the past theories to just be an exodus file system objects files these days. We own the entire stack down to the block storage and so there's a back end inside the called blue store that's responsible for figuring out where where it actually put those bites on the diskin how to read them and how to index them and all that stuff. Tell me more about that. Blue Star System would rolled his blue store play. So it's it's essentially the file system like thing that we use to find in manage all the data stored on a single device. The responsibility of a little bit different than a file system. With a traditional file system you have sort of arbitrary files and directories and renamed ownership and permissions and all that stuff so in some sense. The job of Bluestar Simpler. Because it doesn't have any of that there's a sort of a single consumer and there's sort of a flat organization scheme for all the data that's being stored. What's the name of the object pools it in Chardonnay? Pool doesn't belong to you and at the same time. It has specific requirements. That we have and seth that are different from one thousand so because we're replicating updates across multiple servers. We want to make changes and sort of an atomic as part of comic transaction when we make a change to not tectonic disk and so we we make whatever the update is we update the version of the object. We also log a log entry. So we know that this optic change at this particular time in this order and so when all that is pushed down to the device we have to commit that transaction which is something that Biosystems often have sort of internal to the file systems design. But not something that day exposed to people who are consuming and after bending over backwards for many years trying to sort of implement transactions on top of a traditional style system we gave up just wrote sort of our own storage layer that had exactly semantics behaviors and capabilities that we needed man. That's important because when you have you know all these io's updates are streaming across all these devices and device crashes or maybe it restarts and comes back or whatever it is we want to be able to quickly look at the. Meta data on the devices and know. At what point did they crash in? What updates do they haven't? Don't they have without having to like go? And scan the entire device defined changes like you might have to do with the rate system or something like that. Can you tell me other precautions. You have to make in the SEF runtime to account for common failures that can occur during read or write like maybe network failures or other hardware device failures. Just tell me about building the necessary fault tolerant. They realize the big question for for there are a lot of moving parts. Lot of different pieces of hardware involved and the ultimate goal is to create a reliable source service that's constructed out of entirely unreliable components and so you have to have a lot of redundancy and yet a lot of state checks so on the network side. All Day that sent over the wire is sort of sitting in messages that have CRC checks on them in case there is some sort of air in the network. It's get flipped. Or whatever with blue store data this ever written to the disc has a seat calculated and stored separately with Meta data. So whenever we re data we can verify the checks before we trusted at all something that we also really wanted but couldn't get out of search additional local file systems. And then there's sort of the overarching failure model of separate self where we don't always distinguish between dislike goes bad or a sector. That's bad or at the interface between the disk and the server goes bad or the server crashes sort of all of those things usually are just in going down from the rest of the clusters perspective. Those offline I can only reading right from it and I should just rely on the other. Cas or trigger repair whatever it is and so I sort of making it normal for things to crash the system for the system to recover and it makes a lot of the other air handling cases easier to think about because you already have sort of built in way to understand. Failure and or the overall complexity the system goes down and the reliability of the system goes up and then the last thing is probably the way that seth encourages you to structure the organization of the cluster. So that you deal with failure in the best way possible so we use an called crush for data placement. The basic idea being that if you know the name of the object food that you're gonna read a right and you can do a calculation and that calculation will spit out which servers it should be done based on the name of the object and the current state of the cluster. Which does these are up and down and so any client can know how to find any piece of data by doing this quick calculation. And you don't have to consult some Meta data server to find out where everything is. But the way that that Algorithm describes the structure of the cluster is the hierarchy. Usually you'd have these believes the individual discs you'd group those into hosts and a new group posted. Iraq's group Braxton. Rose you know you might to. Group rose into rooms of a data center. Whatever all the way up into some route the hierarchy and you can write your data placement policy in terms of that higher. Casey might say I want three replicas of my data all in different hosts or maybe I want them in different racks or maybe I want the first year up because in the first rack the third and second wreck or whatever it is but by aligning that data placement policy to the structure of the system and aligning that hierarchy to the way that the physical infrastructure is built in the way that switches are connected or power. Supplies are hooked up. You can increase the overall reliability. So that if avenue tirerack off line because of top Iraq switch or you know. Pd You that the dust or whatever it is. You can be confident that you're only going to take out one replica. Every data in the system can continue to function without interruption until the repairs made. You migrate the data somewhere else. Now you both built a hosting company and gone through academic distributed systems work and I find. There are a lot of people who have built or worked with distributed systems who have not gone through an academic training and I also feel so I my experience with this little bit limited. I took this one distributed systems class in college and it was like traumatic for me because it was just so hard these proofs and things I was like I guess. I wasn't cut out to be a software engineer. Because that's that's really I felt because I couldn't solve these proofs in. I just wonder as you have built safe through the years POW much. Does your academic training come into play there or does it just become an intuitive muscle that plays maybe a small but subtle role in how. You Create Saf. There might be some of that. But it's it's not something that you're really aware if it is intuitive. I think that the thing that that struck me about going through the storage research graduate track was that it's the it's called computer science but it's not science in that in a sense of other hard sciences. Where you you're studying something that already exists or you're reading even proves like we didn't do a lot of I anything. It's really a systems discipline. Where it's it's more like it feels to me more like a craft. And so you know the thing that I remember about Grad school was we would take these seminar classes where we would just we would read. We would re papers like every session. We would read like one or two papers about some system that somebody who designed and then in class. We would just disgusted as I'd and about what's interesting why it worked. Why doesn't work? How compared to other systems and so mostly it was just learning about everything that came before and how they built things and all these like sort of clever ideas that people use to sort of advance the state of the art and then when it comes to actually build something. You're sort of drying on this smorgasbord menu. Whatever have all these different tricks in your pocket and figuring out? Which one sort of help you in this particular situation? And which ones don't build a prototype and then you have to do some evaluation which is like you know. Run some performance tests and try to demonstrate that they solve a scale ability problem or throughput problem or whatever it is and I think my main regret after leaving Grad school was that I haven't really had time or maybe the motivation to like. Continue reading the literature to read about new systems. But I still find that I've frequently are referencing. Met My own thinking these papers I read you know fifteen years ago now the same bag of tricks everybody's using and all these different systems whether it's you know whether it's whether it's whether it's you know. I serve you know whatever it is. All these scalable systems are sort of drawing on a lot of the same concepts in this. This question seemed to be a little bit different these days. At least the ones that need to be answered by people solving business problems is less a matter of like. Am I going to lose data here and more a question of like Osha Us Readiness? And have you know like a faster access? Or should I use some distributed no sequel thing or which distributed no sequel thing. Should I use? What are the subtle trade-offs between these things? It's more about like memorizing the little check boxes of like this. One has this attribute verses this one has this attribute matches up with my problem rather than knowing like what is the do use to face committed three phase commit or Paxos or a raft. Or whatever else you might have meant by your bag of tricks. Exactly I think it further consumer it really comes down to what are the semantics out of the system that you really need what consistency what performance. What kind of data are you storing? And how will that data mutate nor dot mutate over time and that really determines what type? Assistant Sorta the best choice for that particular application so you you started dream host when you were like eighteen eighteen or nineteen sort. If yeah so I I was one of four founders for host and actually joined after the other three had already started the company at that point. It wasn't very most. It was like a Web design consortium thing called New Network. Three most was launched. I think in nineteen ninety seven or nineteen ninety eight when we realized that it was really easy to discharge people buddy for an account on our make money and I worked on that for until two thousand three. I guess when I went back to Grad school so eventually dream host spun out a company based on SEF though right so there was some kind of parallel track or like you were running dream host but you are also doing your PhD and you also like applying PhD stuff to dream host. Yeah well so when my when I finished my PhD. We'd open sourced Steph when we sort of wrote the public purse paper on it and at that point it was clear to me that like this was filling a gap in the open source community. So I wanted to keep working on it and the most expedient way to do that was just to go back to Dream House ten. Continue packing on this project. Hopefully it was something that drew mobile to us just use existing structure had a whole. You know all the access to the data center and old hard drives and whatever else continue working on it and so we hired a couple of people over the next couple of years. I guess and so by around twenty eleven. We decided that in order for the product really to become successful and get adoption but it needed was a company that was standing behind it to offer enterprise support until that happened. Nobody would really trust it so he spun out ink tank. Started hiring like crazy. Got Some convertible debt from a number of different sources and ink tank ran for. I guess two and a half years before we were bought by Red Hat in twenty for keener twenty fifteen. Well this is kind of a random question but why in that situation when you're spinning out you're spinning an infrastructure company out of a hosting company. Why does it make sense to raise convertible debt? It was just the easiest thing so dream hosts just gave us a convertible note as we did not a value the company and we just needed money to grow and we went out for. I guess twice to raise venture capital and in both cases we are unsuccessful until the first time we got the strategic investor came along and gave us another convertible note to sort of get it through another year and then the second time around if we were about to raise our first actual events around when red hat came along and was willing to just by so yeah so we got lucky. I guess in in that sense or unlucky. Soul second pitches to Petra capitalist and then didn't actually have to take forget to take their money. I'm not sure which way it goes into win. Ink Tank was acquired by red hat was around the time that open stack was really popular. Like those kinds of open stack installations were kind of the like? That was the COOBER Nettie Day exactly. That was really why they bought us. We were the dominant storage system in the community and they were sort of no realistic way. That red hat was going to read about. Cluster a couple years before and was sort of trying to push cluster for open sack. And it just wasn't working and seth also did object storage and they didn't have not fixed art solution and so on so it was really credit open stack. What's really driving that whole exhibition? Do always hear these two storage systems in the same sentence Steph in Gloucester. What were the key? Designed differences between the two he s so cluster was sort of. It was the way it's put together is as sort of an abstraction a leering at sort of a file system API level and so you would take all the local file systems anyway have a layer that would basically replicate across two of them. And then you have another one that would like Chard or fragment up your namespace across layer these together in order to get cluster. That had to be done and and so on and it was all through a file which worked well to a certain scale but didn't work. When you've got a Lotta directories across one hundred servers when you do make it has to go create that same directory and all that Architectural imitation set made it only scale to a certain point and in contrast of as its unifying layer was Rados object layer that didn't have that same obstruction and so that sort of that core piece. That handles the reputations capability in recovery and so on just behave much better when you had notes being added and removed and re sized and things failing and so on. That's amazing so that insight that you had pretty early on that the file system is not the right. Abstraction is the base layer in contrast to the object abstraction while the Rados object abstraction. That was really what made the difference for staff that certainly my opinion at least some of the custard. Celtics might disagree but guess why is it? The file abstraction is so much harder to manage than the object abstraction. It's it's more complicated because you can do a lot of things too complicated for a podcast or well. No no no. It's the problem. Is that the file. Interface itself is more complicated because you can do things to files that you can't Doodo objects. Did they just want rename? So I if you write a race object with name Fu that's it it's called to and it goes on certain place in the cluster and that's fine. If it were a file you could rename it into a different directory. You can change its name. And because of the way that placement works were calculating placement based on the name actor naming an object file. Whatever it is what actually move it to a new location. And so in cluster to deal with this they have these sort of like redirects so when something gets renamed east of us the Hash function to figure out where it should go and if it got renamed then you have to leave certainly these breadcrumbs behind or ahead of you. I guess so. The data move every time you read things. That's just sort of one example. The other one at struggled with was the way that that directory hierarchy was managed because ended up basically mirroring the total system file hierarchy across every node and in certain files would or wouldn't appear on different notes. Because you had to sort of arbitrarily deep hierarchy there's all this complexity around making sure that parent territories exist and how do you deal permissions and things like reader to like query all the different notes in aggregate the results and so on the way that sesto sort of at an entirely different layer above this? So the player doesn't have anything like reader and it doesn't have rename and instead the server mantles in a way that sort of written specifically for that set of semantic since we can do it in a more efficient way and only the file data get stored in the sort of free for all that is the subject object store veteran makes it easier to find a job if you are listening to this podcast. You're probably serious about software. You are continually learning and updating your skills which means you are staying competitive in the job market veterinary is for people like you better is an online hiring. Marketplace that connects highly qualified workers with top companies workers and companies on the platform are vetted and this vetting process keeps the whole market. High Quality. Access is exclusive and you can apply to find a job through Vettori by going to vetera- dot com slash. Save daily that's V. E. T. T. E. R. Y. dot com slash. Se daily once. You are accepted to veteran. You have access to a modern process you can set preferences for location experience level salary requirements and other parameters. So that you only get job opportunities that appeal to you. If you have the right skills you have access to a better hiring process you have access to battery so checkout veteran dot com slash. Save daily and get three hundred dollars. Sign up bonus if you accept a job through veteran veteran is changing the way that people higher end the way that people get hired checkout veteran dot com slash. Save daily and get a three hundred dollars signing bonus if you accept a job through veteran thanks to veteran for being sponsor of Software Engineering Daily. The initial motivation for this episode was. I saw a paper from SOS P at. Don't remember what that one stands for. It was about lessons from ten years of SEF evolution. Can you give a few other pieces of background that you have learned over the years of managing staff sure? I mean the paper was specifically about the storage back end so blue store must mentioned earlier. Originally we started all that data and sort of an excess file system on each disc and then that evolved to blue store. It's interesting because the history is actually sort of a more nuanced than that. Because we started out writing custom file back end called IBAZ. That was sort of an object based file system and then it was just it was just more to maintaining. We're trying to make everything else. Work and butter fest appeared to have all the features that we needed and so we pivoted the butter fascinated. Better fest in stabilized and so we used excess and then we realized that we really didn't eat our own custom thing and not a file system and so we were Bluestar. So sort of back to the beginning again. That's that that paper was about really that using an existing local file systems very expedient way to get something off the ground quickly but once you get a little bit further down the road and you have higher performance requirements and if the semantics. Don't quite lineup. It's worth the investment to sort of own the entire stack. I guess so. I think that's sort of one other one other big one that comes out. Is that open source communities are maybe when we first opened. Sorry Steph my mind. It was like the greatest thing since spread so much such a better design and all the other stuff like people are just going to start using it and meeting code and it's GonNa be great and then the reality that it took years to build a user end community of people who are actually actively contributing the project and it's still sort of an ongoing talents to cultivate a community of engineers who have time to invest in the project that are paid to do it and are working on a long enough where they can really understand. What's a pretty complex system so they can sort of meaningfully? Contribute to open source is hard. But it's fantastic. When it works. You've really worked on a lot of projects and I. It was really interesting reading up on your background and I was pleasantly surprised to learn that you created the web ring this is classic piece of Internet Lore. Like friends showed me Web Ring. Like someone is like you know it was like digging through you know an old record collection because it was before my time. I didn't even really start looking at the web history until I was like twenty two or something and I'm sure a lot of people discovered this in highschool or whatever but explain what web right right something that you read about in X K CD. Come excetera referencing like no. I think it's the levering thing is is funny because I'm crowded with creating by bringing the same way credited with creating but in both cases like it wasn't my idea and it wasn't really something that I created. It was more something. I like managed to build accessible. I guess so. There was a website that ran across in Nineteen ninety-four. Maybe high school that was called Europa. Was the ever expanding the ring of pages or something like that and they basically is that. There's this web pages and there'd be a next site link and it would just linked to the next person and then if you wanted to join the rain you just email one of them and tell them to link to you and you'd link to their next person so he doesn't sit yourselves on the list and I thought that was kind of clever and decided that realize that you could make a C. J. script to do it or maybe somebody told me that you should make script and then I read. I can't quite remember. But that's how it started and then realize that you can have different things different topics you could have ones that are on about cars about you. Know whatever it was so the whole sort of community what site and so on built up around it and that was yeah that was a rollercoaster to say that whole process because it was started in high school and was working on it through my first couple of years of college and was learning how to like make something that was on a server that wouldn't crash and no things kept scaling and having to deal with all the staff to carry a pager. And whatever you've made for a sort of a bizarre college experience but that was pretty fun. It's pretty fun and in the end it eventually sold it to. Go cities in Yahoo and that you know. Put me in a reasonable financial situation where I focus on other things. So we're there were more exciting. So certainly can't complain. Do you think it could become something so much more? If if you would have kept working on it I don't know it depends on what the so much more was at the time. The rings were. They really clicked with people. Because you didn't have Google really the engines. But they don't work very well and so if you're trying to find content or community you had to go through the Yahoo Directory hierarchical way to find stuff. It was just hard to find stuff on the Web and Web rings basically allowed people to create all these little communities of like sites that were all related to same topic. And you'd have the ringmaster. Who would sort of manage that community so it was like once you sort of found your little pocket you could find a whole little sub world. Whatever so I think that worked really well for creating community but it wasn't like a recipe for a dot com company to make money and I think that's ultimately what who discovered you know. They went through several years of trying to figure out how to monetize it. Could they put ads on these pages? Like your end up putting ads on like random but sites. Like people don't really want to do that. They couldn't really figure out how to turn that into revenue and so ironically in the end they actually sold laboring to one of the engineers who worked on it and they continue to operate it but as a bunch of smaller sort of entity. Well in fact I think I'm still existed and not even sure and once now searches so ubiquitous. It's like you can always find sort of what you want. I don't know that there's really a substitute for that. Same thing where you get. These little sub many communities pockets related content but at the time it certainly sorta filled a gap in the web space. All right well last question in a really enjoyed talking to you in enjoyed learning about the various projects. You've worked on in after starting these various enterprises that you've started you've stayed at Red Hat and I wonder if you weren't at Red Hat. What would you be doing? Do you have any other ambitious. You know crazy distributed systems or web social networking or you know hosting infrastructure company ideas or. Have you dropped the Mike while you're on top of your game? Yeah I mean what I normally tell people when they ask you. This question is that I feel like I'm not done with Steph yet. Like it feels like the state of the art storage technology that you've reached for should be open source and yet still spend spend billions of dollars a year on these proprietary systems. That if they're better they shouldn't be because you should be able to build on open source solution. That's better than that. That's the proprietary one. And I think the seth is has been hugely successful. Certainly not complaining but it feels like you know we're not done yet and not ready to just walk away and if I am going to be working on staff then redhead us that easiest and best place to do it. Because their supporters of Steph we have tons of engineers working on it. It's just it's a great open source friendly company and a great place to work. But it's funny. They should ask that question because I am actually taking a leave of absence from red hat starting next week through the end of the year to work on something entirely different and that is just putting on hold for a little bit in order to see. If there's something I can do to help out with political situation here in the US. So I'm going to be working with an organization doing trying to get voters registered particularly underrepresented communities young people minorities and people who are sort of in states where there's voter suppression and related tactics to see what we can do about that. So it'll be a little bit of a change of pace that's awesome. I mean you know the world could use an open source web ring. Also just to let you know facebook. We need the open source. As as badly as we need the open source answer to S. three and a B S. We also need the open source web ring so I do hope you saw voter suppression or alleviate the political problems of the United States also but just just letting you know you got one aspect of social web ring user here open source web ring crew. Good to know thanks sage. Thanks a lot for coming on the show. I'm really inspired by your work. It's quite amazing so appreciate your time. Thanks for having me Apache. Cassandra is an open source distributed database. That was first created to meet the scale ability and availability needs of facebook Amazon and Google in previous episodes of software engineering daily. We have covered CASSANDRA's architecture and its benefits. And we're happy to have data stacks the largest contributor to the CASSANDRA project since day. One has a sponsor of software engineering daily data. Stacks provides data stack enterprise. A powerful distribution of Cassandra created by the team that has contributed the most to Cassandra. Data stacks enterprise enables teams to develop faster scale further achieve operational simplicity ensure enterprise security and run mixed workloads. That work with the latest graph search and analytics technology all running across hybrid in multi cloud infrastructure more than four hundred companies including Cisco Capital One and Ebay run data stacks to modernize their database infrastructure improve scale ability and security and deliver on projects such as customer analytics. Iot And e commerce to learn more about Apache Cassandra and data stacks enterprise goto data stacks dot com slash. Save daily. That's data stacks with an X. D. at A. S. T. A. X. at data stacks dot com slash daily. Thank you to data stacks for being sponsor of Software Engineering daily. It's a great honor to have data stacks sponsor and you can go to data stacks dot com slash s daily to learn more

Seth Steph Rados Us Access Red Hat Grad school SAF Riley Amazon Department of Energy Los Alamo Sage University of California Santa developer
178 Transforming Education In The Era of Covid w/ Ted Dintersmith, Bestselling Author

Christopher Lochhead Follow Your Different™

1:26:08 hr | 1 year ago

178 Transforming Education In The Era of Covid w/ Ted Dintersmith, Bestselling Author

"Thanks for pressing play. This is Christopher Lockhead, follow your different and right off the top. I want to say a big. Thank you. To everyone who sent notes in emails and Lincoln's Inn tweets and facebook Cetera of appreciation for our last episode with Pastor Dave. Ferguson. You know, I'm really glad to hear how many of you enjoyed the conversation. How pastor Dave seems to have sparked some powerful dialogues for many with your family and your friends as you know all of us around here. We believe in the power of real conversations to make a real difference and it was great to see that. So many people got so much from that last episode, and if you are sharing that episode with your friends and family and loved ones and with your church or whatever a religious group you might be associated with or whatever religion you believe in also WanNa. Thank you. For that. It seems to have smart sparked a real conversation about theology which is also very cool. I also want you to know that I deeply appreciate the notes of support for me in our family as we continue to grapple with some of the worst circumstances that any family has to do with. It's an incredibly incredibly trying time of walking through much fire for us and so Thank you for your love and support. And I'm doing my best to respond to all of the social media and emails that are coming in and if I haven't been able to respond just yet I, do want to know your words of support, your love and support is wonderful and so thank you. It means a lot not just to me, but to our whole family. Okay, on this episode, a legendary conversation about schools and education. This is a topic I don't think is getting enough attention right now, and so with us on this episode is the author of a great book called what school could be insights and inspiration from teachers across America, and his name is Ted Dinner Smith, and if you're a long-time listener, you might recall Ted was with us in twenty nineteen shortly after his book came out. and. I wanted to have him back, and this is a special two part series. We're doing aimed at shining light on Two of the seminal problems that have been caused by the see nineteen crisis, and in my opinion, frankly are not being talked about enough and are not being talked about in a thorough rigorous thoughtful way, and those two issues are education and entrepreneurship. So on our next episode you'll hear from professor of economics at the University of California Santa Cruz Professor Rob Fairly. He's an amazing guy. He's done some fantastic research on the impact of seed nineteen on entrepreneurial businesses and. What I think is a horrible disproportionate impact. The crisis is having on entrepreneurs and business owners of color and women, entrepreneurs, and business owners. So that's coming up next on this episode, Ted, he a former legendary VC turned off her. And when he wrote his great book, He came on the podcast. We had an amazing conversation and one of the cool things that Ted did in writing his book is he visited some two hundred schools in every state in the United States to gain some insights on what the greatest educators in the US do. and. I've been thinking a lot about school as I know many of you have a parents who are looking at a school year. That's very uncertain. Right now, some schools haven't even declared if they're going to do in person or or or hybrid home, and in person, or it's still very much in flux and I, know Ted's been talking to a lot of the top educators country and I was hoping to get his insights with a standing on the edge of the new school year here. How do we make this work? How do we figure out how school works in this new reality and Ted has some powerful in some great ideas about that? And we even get into how to make what might be the weirdest school year in modern history and opportunity to reimagined school and reimagined learning. So if you care about our future, if you care about kids, if you care about education I, think you're GonNa love this conversation with Ted pay special attention to his ideas on how to tap into the intrinsic motivation of kids to spark their learning, and he shares a story that is really spectacular about how one school us. Teaching rap music to produce a breakthrough in learning results. GO TO LOCKHEAD DOT COM check out the show notes for. For. This episode, learn more about Ted's awesome book and get the key takeaways. While you're there subscribed to our newsletter, the difference and we're sponsored by my friends Oracle Net, sweet checkout net sweet dot com slash different today for more on the world's number one, cloud business system. My friends spunk help you bring data to everything visit sp L. U. N. K., dot com slash di the number to the letter e and my friends at crash are the new way to get hired. So if you're looking to turbo charge your career visit crash dot com slash different today now heyhoe. Let's go. Great to be back. How things change, yeah was how I've thought about your book a lot since we talked and in particular since all of this business started and the title of your book, Of course, how school could be am I remembering that, right? What's? Your what school could be and like, wow. What could school be now? Ted? So. That's maybe we can start there. Yeah. Well interro context. The specific context of school and I've been circling back with a lot of the people that wrote it out. You know they had intentionally transferred more voice to the students. So the kids they work with were really good free. On. Identifying what they wanted to learn. Turning that into an initiative, they wanted to create create managing your own time to drawing appropriate resources, other adults, online stuff. And then sticking with the Julia presumptively cared about and in my book with no sensible aluminum pandemic I said. Really important skill for adults. And you look at vast and attentional part of what's going on in the school. Ginger gauged their learning deeply jointly. The role of the teacher is different, much more fulfilling and I said bats is that's something we should admire and celebrates well now when you can't be in school, what happens and when I circled back people who. Had pursued that approach which I wish we're everybody, but it's a, it's a certainly more of a sliver in the education world in the majority is a hey. Kids Miss. Being schooled in the fans They miss your activities, but they didn't stop running at all anything they made for more than they were before. An end when you were warned the traditional model where somebody's talking yet taking notes, you're memorizing for short term exam. Difficult Mission for teacher in person. But trying to do it virtually my gosh. This massive disparity. One of the themes that we're seeing in the last four five months is how? It's essentially it. All of these inequities disparities in society. Certainly. True. Not, people talk about pedagogy news a massive difference between to use an analogy kids who had learned how to fish. Versus kids that were good. FISHY years at new. Even Normal Times. Make kids eat fish didn't work for them in enchants but now. Virtual. Fish. The kids were good at fishing whether they were in school or at home, even if they didn't have access to digital resources would certainly. Is a massive challenge in which she we failed. Congratula. But with or without still. Push. To learn acting Gig, good decks and so. I think it's sort of been the Dickens Best Times worse in times, but but maybe a lot more of the worst times. Well I mean, certainly, there are some positives, but may before we go, there I just let me share with you what what I've been worried about. And that is that women and mothers have been disproportionately. In a negative way by all of this business. And informally, anyway, the the the mothers that I've been talking to in my life I've sort of asked him in roughly as a percentage of your normal. How much more water are you carrying as a result of all of this? and. I hear numbers like twenty to fifty percent more. And you know the scenarios that I see I see MOMS who now have a a husband who's working from home or a husband who's lost his job We, see, of course, homeschooling now. So mom's gotta be not just tutor, but in some ways professor as well or principal of the school or whatever analogy you want. And of course, feeding a family has gotten more expensive and more challenging. This summer. A. Lot of the MOMS that I know were incredibly bombed that you know their kids weren't going to be able to do the normal sorts of activities that they did. and. That puts more pressure on the MOMS as well. And I know, ted. Some women who are I, I would call them warriors of just incredible powerful women. Who? Cried with me when they found out, those kids are now after all that are not going back to school in September. and. So as you think about sort of this, this time that we're in and this whole new dynamic in the household with the home turning into the school and what it means for our moms sort of. How do you think about all of that? Well, it's. The real hardship and your point is exactly right. I talked to talk to a lot of people balked teachers. Administrators, parents? Students. Can you imagine a type of hiring society or stress and particularly you know? This is where the inequities getting, magnify your your family plenty of resources in its maybe inconvenient. Maybe it's not what you want. Maybe you can grouse a little bit of A. Generally, they can put together in a way. It works really well, now you're single parent holding two jobs. You've gotTA treat five minutes and seven year old I. Mean how does that work round has our in so? These are real challenges erotic. Like? The mindset you have, we think it's going to be. months, but surely by the summer will be three this. It will magically disappear. Temperatures go off and we'll be fine next year, and now suddenly were staring the school year by base. And I consider be by and large, not true everywhere. But to taxes rules don't reopen the schools do try to reopen quickly shut back down. And you know you can be in some locations, the country where the viruses fight under control. So that won't be troops down. But most kids are going to be start, stop chaos hassle. You think you've made one plan changes. This is real hardship and and it's not like we snapper hangers and say oh? Yeah, we just do X. we're fine. Arm It is a Cobra crisis. Well, that was my uneducated assessment of the situation and you have a very much more educated assessment. So the fact that it's yours to. Is. Confirming and a giant bummer. And so. If, I'm a a school principal or if I'm an executive in a school system or school if I'm a teacher. What advice would you have for me on? Okay. So in most parts of the United States plus or minus I, you tell me being physically in school is not going to happen or not going to be possible in the September semester. There's the high potentialities I would assume. That that will again be true in the January semester. Or let's say this if I was a teacher principal executive. Planning that it was all going to be magically good on Jan. One is probably dumped. So right now as a school leader of one sort or another. A my right Ted in assuming that I have to wrap my mind around how we care for these kids how we educate these kids for essentially a whole school year and a distance Digital way is at that where my head should start. I. If you plan for to the entire school year, we get some magic vaccine that everybody uses state you know definitive. Is, massively. Russia. The market in an effective way. Entire year, but but if I were. In the shoes of these people tried to plan now, the future, I, I have an enormous amount of empathy for. Can't be begin to stress how difficult of the scope decisions that have be made. You think about person whether it's a principal or superintendent or head of school person who's on the hot seats, decide whether real bring plans are. Tell me winning announcement. Complexities on certain, you know people perceived risk of wives, kids. You know I think in some ways you look at the data. We should talk about that in a second risk is a lot more wickets, Cherry back to families what teachers are exposed to their arrests and they're not getting a cold there. No. Like death rates, some people. Think about this. You say I didn't do it for teaching. Underscore a couple things. One is. Even if you had a great plan to reopen it requires. And I mean just are marching through everything has to be done safely. For you to say, here's our landing open. Here's an transportation plan. Here's the vector disinfected plans. Here's our staff classrooms would happen students. Here's our net nurses on call, and you look at everything that's required, and then you say owned by way to it, even fewer budget dollars, state Mojo budgets that hammered. I mean, my Gosh. Who who can I mean? We can ask a lot of her teachers. They step up and do a lot. We can ask a lot instructors, but I don't think you can ask. Somebody on Mars on Dr Every five. But. And so so that's really hard I think. If you step back and the ticket deep. Started to look at the data, the reality situation L. Circle things that I think are points focus on? I? MEAN I. Even though. Coaches fourteen year allergy twelve, but I'm here. So I can relate to this is. Your parent, you're paranoid about what might happen your jets if you look at the data. For. The real risk for perchance, it's time. You know there's there's a bigger risks that your child will die from choking on food. Then there is the virus right and and nobody's around saying I'm going to not let kids eat food because they might Chilton. It's there's some level of how many kids I mean I. I hate dinner table. Let me poke at you a little sure. You know how much time I spent an epidemiology or for that matter medical school. So. Caveat. Caveat. The one thing I worry about that that we can't know from a lot of the data and in this regard data around children is. If a child gets covid were hearing these stories of of others. Now, birth children with covid. To the best of my reading, let me say it that way. We don't understand what the potential long term impacts. Is there some immune system damage that gets done? Is there some other? And then there was that weird rashy thing that seemed to get in the news for a while that kids were saying as some kind of a result of CO anyway. I hear what you're saying. But I at least for me and I'm you know I'm I'm a committed uncle, but that's close right. It's still I still love lots of children. I'm just worried about even if a child gets covid and they're not even symptomatic, maybe they just blast through it. They test positive and a few weeks in and then they're gone, it's all fine. I'm still concerned that we just don't really know. It's you know if you think back to the early days of HIV AIDS. You know there's just so much. We didn't know about about an emerging virus, and so I don't know maybe you know things that give you more comfort be curious. But aren't you at least a little concerned? About the long term impact could be on kids lastly inside context of the uncertainty. So so if look at what's happened to date the number of young kids is We have a handle long-term. Do. We chant into law actually data. Thanks to South Korea on the ability of young kids to transmit and. That's you know bats arrest I, mean. It's. A risk for teachers in the school for the support staff. A My right eye. If I remember that stuff. I, mean. I. Seem to remember it being quite eye opening at the time that. these symptomatic kids could be quote. Unquote super spreaders is that is that what you're referring to my remembering that right yet. Ria. Results which was. Like a decent stab. Again, I've got as much epidemiology back issue but it was like eight hundred bucks. Adults fetters. Eight zero nine seems like it's about half. Zero Iras by the way. This discussion about what about Kids Kovin? I would say scurvy. Parallel discussion, what we have when the first axes. As long term. Does that give you complete immunity? Your partial does it lasts for. Six months, but you know it's a wrong of the stance of that scene means out of the first. A. First One's a live promising her out all behind. That will have. You know so so it's just there's Just. Uncertainty. I would say this, I would say. Drawing, on the people I talk to experts almost to. The need for young kids to be in a school environment is higher than the minimum high school kids the burden on we to support. Five. Six, seven, eight, nine, ten, year, old phone is higher, and so you start to rank sort of team fireworks. Yeah. We Wanna be looking at what are. Of treating all kids the same, what can we do to get younger kids back? And going in your favorites, they seem less likely to transmit. Arteries staff, those kids with younger adults who are less likely to you know as a life threatening result around this kids, and then what can we do? This is I think one of the biggest opportunities what can we do with kids of any age? KINDA wrong allies. What I wrote in my book is, what can you do to? Help them. You know take on worry challenges were they can run with their own. You know it's like think about. a lecture by. Every hour students in lecture, the truth, the lecture per hour and they action student volume. That is some number of minutes. Max Dismal minutes. Is it. The teacher keys a really interesting challenge through kid, but the kid gets interested in. Origin how long it? Sometimes. Our teacher time. Even g minutes a teacher time and lead to multiple hours soon, time a student gauge todd and to me. It. You know the framing I wrote to us on. This is, what are we talking about? Our kids learning. Or. What are they? And Traditional School is a lot about laying out with kids have. You know like it's all your textbook sits in the state mandated crucial minutes. I. Think there's this sense of. That, when they studied something, they've actually learned it yet live in a world where two-thirds adults can't name the three branches of. Know like I mean I just what? What? What did you just say, Tet. Thirds of adults in. America. CanNot name three branches of government. Well, let's see. There's the olive branch. Would you say tomato grows on a branch or is that more of a vine? You're fucking that be true Ted. starring. But is it surprising? Right? You look at US history which a lot of people think is the pinnacle of history study entertained else's. Fans, skin lesson class on. The. Constitution. If you're racing from fourteen, ninety, one present covering every smidgen of US history. The using H, he's creek cards crammed for the exam. What comes out of it so. Red Is is. You can. Lever. Adult time with gene student learning. Let them, go jeep on as hr about. Is Much better. I never claimed to be an education expert because I wouldn't trust our classroom teachers. But. You know for my kids when they were a great once a week. Homeschool, maybe three of his eight years. And initially, I was like, what are they doing enormous school rocket though? And it's it's kind of a battle. When you you young from, you say you gotta read this book or You gotTa, do you gotTa do this cows? Particularly jibs, I admire wants. Independence thinking in some. To them, it's like. Really one of. Told this is exactly. And? What sort of Said Oh. Okay get back. Which is questioned very few kids are at rest in school, which is, what are you? What are you interested? At these kids, all things are interested in. They are like. A million things are interested in and you say, what are you interested in? and. Then support to go deep bought, but as an adult. Teacher Parent. Classmate. Tank as they go into it. That interest try to broaden a tweet. Jason feels questions. Once, the signs were. History example. The Guy Who Eliot Engel in New York State General Bunk. Okay this is were. So Jamal takes over diss. Breed six. Eight school in what could be the forest area, your city, which is a vast this. These were just Kids I mean, they weren't Hinson parish drive forty, five minutes or signing pledges that we're GONNA do drills at home at night. Kinsey. Dr. Mike School or happen chest, Wa. Jamal. Comes in and says, you know what we're GONNA do we're apples? ooh. Focused on. Rap, music. While you're the jerk crease. Prospects, robberies. Our school is all about. This school where everyone was aghast me. Letting these kids rap, you say, you know not. WanNa. Dead. You would never you're never going to help these kids with intern and I got on my radar screen because. Five years, six years, we have a highest single game to test scores been school across the biggest school district in the country, probably the world and why it was kids want to be in school and they trusted the adults. Teachers even support staff. Everybody's leaning in kids interested in rap. That's a window charts because. A lot of rap actually has very powerful beautiful, which you know The map beats the physics of percussion history rap is for these kids while they may not be learning progressive era the. Historian because they're going and understanding how rocky. They may not be learning backroom recalling vehicles that they're learning the math behind beats and waited jetson be mass fluent. which is you know, right? What's our goal right comfortable with math or is can do twenty procedures photomask? And so. Powerful. Reflection of what happens if you start with Wet Chitwan? Tan. Trinity motivation. In power, you don't run an interest level to Jason seats and not well on the fact that a kid is learning EXAC with the classic. Maybe even let you know later that up by letting kids teach our years. My Presentation History Rats says Jerry for takeoff, they pretend to to their classmates as well. It's it's. Not? The intense standardize. You know we we the College Board. NCIA were listening to that, Sade. Say He's got it. All wrong. We're listening. Business important. What you might get on with a high school about learn how to balance a kimberly frazier I mean. You're ruining their future. You'll like some evidence by the way and his. People some level shirt better worse. But whenever I asked evidence that students even to a students have action routine what they learn. The ECHINACEA discouraging or doesn't exist. So this is fascinating. There's a whole bunch that you said, I wanNA maybe key onto two big pieces that went off in my mind. You said tap into their intrinsic motivation. So a child who loves RAP MUSIC I'm naturally drawn to it. I connect with other kids. My Age are naturally drawn to it. We study that. So That's interesting and then at the front end of somewhere in this section of our conversation, you made the statement, what are they learning as a question as distinct from? Are they learning and so I? Just WanNa make sure I'm learning what you want me to learn here Ted which is There's an a ha here that if you connect those two things, intrinsic motivation and and the framing of two different conversations, what I think I'm hearing you say is the pathway to broad learning. Is Focusing on, are they learning more and less on? Are they learning and if they're learning about the history of rap music and that opens the door to math or English or music or whatever other thing then? That's awesome. Either so why would would we do that and we will do it because if one students excited about rapping others extended excited about insects and another one's excited about. Four or something. Then they're not the same thing, and so we WANNA stand is you know that's only bystander education. If you want to measure. Ranked up against each other wreckage is in southern district practice is restraint. Countries, the other countries. You need that to. More or less the same things for the same test. And if you think about trying to administer test in bulk. You know Y-, you need to sort of dumbing down and so you look at I. Mean I go after Vengeance math, and it's always a bit of a Downer when I talked to audiences of educators because some of them are high for Matthew. And, I. It's fascinating to me. We have kids still that math almost adults us. and. And why are we doing that and we do it because as little tiny thirty to forty, five second problems like back from, you know how know meal or? Bus New Close Year Calculus for example. Rate Fodder for the standardized test desires. So you look at yes, Eighteen, the sex, which is your score is chock full. Of stuff that during view insults us? Legislator could pass it is my bet and the. And and so. I think like wh-. Sense. Went by the way. I've got a so each school, but I i. I got a piece in applied math. That's. Can Ask some sense. But I understand you this turn creative conceptual five math we could do starting delivers. It would be actually really useful. This is your on one that I don't understand to this day. How is it possible that a a kid can graduate high school in the United States of America and not understand what checkbook is not understand what a bank account is not understand what a credit card is. If you look at one of the things that gets all of us in trouble and particularly young people that go to college, there's all these credit cards being thrown at them all this stuff. They don't know how to manage a household. They don't understand about, hey, rule number one, spend less. Then you make. It understand any kind of financial planning or what a 401k is or I could go on, but let's just call it basic family life, personal family, financial literacy. How how is it possible? We graduate people with none of these skills and a an agreement everything you mentioned, but let's add one and that. They don't understand what it needs to take. Arm Twenty Five. You're a student loan debt, particularly the get behind your teammates and compound interest at a high rate kinks. And so when I talk to these young adults, twenty five years old. I like, how did you get your? Student loan debt you have, and they'll say I don't know. Let me check and then they'll get to me. Their they got a hundred kids. Now say well. And they say you know they just told me sign his formidable oh workout. Run Blah Blah. Blah. But, we skip over financial letters like ing, but by the way notches and they need. Kids think it's interesting. Right I mean. It's actually relevant interesting and the map behind by Ninja literacy interim. You can go pretty far right. It's not just Fundamental core math operations ratio, which is about where everybody's. Tops out, but you know compound interest exponential functions start to get into investment strategy and portfolio going probabilities I mean, you and I, we could in an hour white or. Years Great. Around literacy, it would be useful later in life relevant, interesting kids. We've tackled to almost all before concepts. Why aren't we doing you know and I think it's because a lot of work for. US, and they just want to say like. Why don't we want to sign up for more work in a honestly you know or something really interesting math. is where there's no clear answer by is in, we're seeing with the pandemic by the way is finally people about math models and and they're wondering. What the Hell is, what the heck is a math model and you realize there's all sorts and served the An. Elaborate, you know efforts to think sumptious and. Just sort of a wealth of. Inside, pig jennings to the kind of Math I. Think our kids should be comfortable with. But instead to this day to this day if a kid. Good student at is America goes to the guidance counselor and says I teach statistics or shouldn't take calculus. The answer is takeout set for college. And when you do as I have you, will you know S- college admissions, officers, I'll s hundred admissions. Officers. Is there anybody in this room? It would prefer kid to take statistics, Calculus. Into, zero. And I'll tell them. I'll say you like I spent six years by one adults in America. Does Alot. canucks is still calculus. I get by not at Boeing nurtured saw bottling companies. Hyperbolic transformations to close for Marvel's I took AP. Calculus got. Five on it. I can do that. But I also knew nobody it. is so much more interesting and valuable for citizenship chinks into precisions and it. Really Opens Career Joyce. Statistics taught right is really created. Think about. Money. Right. How many kids in middle and high school sports I, mean lots narrow. But lots you look at moneyball. We're really being Kim creaky difference digesting the him edge the urine insight and we have otherwise you just use pernicious. That's far. That's interesting. And I think back to sort of these times, I. Mean. You know it's not a coincidence. I. Don't have his name off the top of my head, but one of the best. Sources, for information about spread Trojan was done by a seventeen year old kid Washington state. And with a interview where the candidate Jake was Pretty Be Yorker made even bats dude. I read about this game, but so he was interested in, is we just forget? That if you ignore student engagement. Watch students don't, learn and. Yet ready to call for five hours. Really. Now, we're really getting somewhere, right. So. Let's say I'm a I'm a parent, and I'm now I'm now co educating my children in a way that I didn't expect to and they're now they're home and they're going to be home for. Two semesters and maybe even more who the hell knows where all this things going. How do I think bound? Helping my child. Through the next year. And specifically had, can I flip my headset? Let's say, I, have a headset or a mindset that says. Fuck. You know this is GonNa suck and. Why. Are we paying taxes for schools? All of the negative about this, and the time sync it is, and you almost for some families. It's it's a food issue as well. I mean there's a lot that goes around this. So let's say I was able to change. My mindset can't wh-. What if this was an opportunity to have a breakthrough in in learning for my child and actually what if this was a blessing in disguise in? So far as the there might be a way that this is this is a more powerful paradigm for creating a successful happy. Highly functioning adult. If you say that's the objective of education or at least part. So. So how do I as a parent dealing with this? Okay, Ted's right. One of the things I remember most about your book and about our conversation, this notion of giving children. Agency. This, this notion of tapping into the intrinsic motivation, this this idea of. Are they learning versus what are they learning? How can I apply these concepts? These ideas to try and turn this thing into a positive now? So Let's. Let's say that I was moderately persuasive. Appear in convincing people that allow what they. Get Anyway and the summer slide. Real panic about is not just something they never. In First Vice New Chevrolet short term memory tasks. Some have expansive short term memories of called test takers. They look smart others aren't there poor test takers. We think dumb. Often that becomes. So don't policies. Let's say. People Surgical Big Siro Breath, and say, you know accent the fundamental. Skills like every kitchen. Encourage joint leader. Kim, should be good at figuring out how access resources so they could teach himself things kitchen. With. Basic level math I mean that's seniors layer there. But how week most here's one of the things I had discussions past week spreads they were. Crude, up Blah Blah Blah. You know we're building in addition on her house will try to get the ball that. Too, ill like you know. Like imagine. If, you had them watch this old house. And had them. Do you know any youtube sears? Or renovations something that makes it interesting for. You know. A different like I'm a big advocate. This is I think your your. You'll be on this. You're. Way. Ahead of me on it, but you're listenership I. Think we'll. Get on this issue is, here's this vast array of. Digital. Economy skills. that. I write about in my book, the can develop. At a very early age and so imagine what the heck. We're we're spreading were Hong, can he'd seen zoom nothing's working I? Got The courage to say what the Hell I don't share. You know. Let's regret my kit. Fi. Alex, fine. GINGERS. And in. And we we could probably lose fifty things in a community brought. US by the virus. Barring a tweet of interest developer website, you know changes are graphic design and it had his worst days or whatever did sign agreed website? How do you Do. Let's just say where can you go protesting within ten miles where we? What's really going on field testing? You know, what are we know about the accuracy of those tests? How fast results you know checking with? Their million kids if they get going on it in event but. Focused on, they're going to get good at websites, I can get good craft. Video even if by stoops zoom learn in. Social Media. This. And some by rebel is a contribution to their community. Can't in the thing that I find. So amazing is. Out of the kid. Those, things. If they go to upward, they could probably make fourteen fifteen years China labor loss to kick in some point that they can make thirty forty bucks an hour. I mean they're often running. Whether they go to college not. And yet I call it not for hanging fruit of education opportunities, uncolorful, low-hanging, or your. These digital and things. I. Write About Him by book we're. Just, a mega tangent where the school in why? Why in Westwood. One of the poorest across the. Why is really great woman? They chance we start. Me and. These are kids that normally wouldn't get to the end of highschool. They just did a big parcel normal school dinner. Big New building air three, hundred, fifty kids for the digital program. Google digital see rider look at. These produce and these kids without college are freelancers starting small consulting firms doing video editing remotely. You're off and running with a great life. So if somebody said to me, why? Why do I say how about this? How about this? Consider, backed it most kids after twelve, sixteen years of school. And not good anything. Really values many college graduates Daiwa. You've hired much. Day wanted to said so good at that. You can instantly plug in help us. I mean, that's rare. Wait sixteen years of school and it's not happening how about make the happen now? And about figuring out really creatively. So the kids don't have in my book. I write about we're a piece. Now if we call kind of I, call it our SOS video better. But we're interviewing people from my book to try and get some guys the stars slow year for what you can do. But we've seen is incredible guy who at the time was superintendent to coach Coachella this our. Not. Homes from rich. But near Palm, springs incredibly poor and Darrell Darrell. Adams's thing. I told me is. I. Wrote the second worst district in the country as was us. He said I don't know I'm sure car. and. Christopher did this profile why? By meals where they've routers on school buses in parts, school buses in the low income areas. Chins inner vans had access to Wifi and use. A. A great idea. What a great idea. You know. It's a what we said to all the people kind of on the beach. No attack. When was got this big thing with these balloons. What we just at Google you know like. US. How. Do we get why access to every disadvantage chip treasury. He's and we had a white, house. Joni any degree of leadership in the Department of Education, showed any leadership which we know. But they just called in to selling companies in the tech companies. Instead Conrad Crevices, there are extant kids who are shut off digital resource world. We're fixing that by Labor Day. Janet. Tower jet is fucking. And and and we'll fund it. Is Free. But a journey of priorities, he saw the our. And that supposedly WIFI wheels but said. These college kids that have to do. And said, you're going to be in the modern day. You know. Education Preschool. And we'RE GONNA. Do Papa consulting with these chance aren't doing projects like. There's. Really great things said if somebody amid it'll. Begin talk and have the nation Wissam. Elections your. Show, but I mean, if somebody you do now. This is Now we know. In a way, we should always know the teachers jobs are incredibly Dan. Now A way. We should have always known that we can't have functioning economies. Better schools you know. Even back once they're getting back to normal. How we start to elevate were song support them. Out them pivots and things rumble barry warming experiences for their kids. Close the gap between the rich kids before kids I think you know done. Right. This would be the perfect time to do that. But what are we saying? I, mean, we're we are so far unions, right? They see I. Cry. When, when you look at schools being school drawings supposed to be open. Now, we're right at Sylvia's time that we saw you know congress painting what they're. GonNa do and you know. President saying. Everything. I was supposed to do. The grunt viruses still surging than most places. But Even. Though I said for eight years in education issue is local time for me to make this really clinical and say every time we open and it doesn't gang funding for the most dispensed consumer. And I. I hope it comes across that I say that we can agree about rage because that's exactly how I feel. You know it's like. Is the course of democracy dipping kids. Across America first, our life is the single. Most important thing we can do to mention functions civil society. We're fucking. Amen Hallelujah and to put an additional point on it. Not Too. Long ago, we had David Crane on from governor for California and boy, did he give me an education about a lot of things and one of them was he said we have been defunding schools for a very long time, and of course, the schools that are getting fucked. The most are the schools that serve the most under served parts of our country, and so yes, I find it very outrageous that anybody would be talking about taking money away from schools at this moment in time when they're all struggling to figure out what what school even mean now. and. Your most people have heard of Brown versus board of Education as screen court. Ruling. Maybe. But how many branches of government are there? Some of her. Without her Rodriguez versus San Antonio and this is one thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, three, supreme court ruling winds frequent said, he is just fine. It most money by cels comes from property taxes. So basically, it's just fine if the rich communities armour resources educate their kids than the forty years, and so you see this complex right of. Urgency I think of getting the Funny Stripe First Fools. Pair teachers, what they deserve and reimagined what our kids are learning schools because in back, education continue just tilt it already tilted playing deal more toward the rich. Toward the white, but not are white then. You see in a bathroom, see the blackhawks marries. The differential impact covert on black and Brown. Get some alone. You. See the educational opportunities of Africa past governor make at work of the. Family struggling to get buyers are screwed. And at some point, you just say this doesn't together and you know one of the things that you know trying to make these tangible, which is you know pisses me off and maybe a lot of other people off but. Look at shares at right got arrested. So we shoveled two dollars store. and. Totally chairs for our schools. All Arcade twelve schools in America. The total was thirteen point five. West point seven percent of the trillion. The total is minimum fuzzy number, but it's at least a hundred dern by billions. Of Tax Relief or bridges, Americans when it comes to the write offs of offering losses against you know non operative lost games, and so people making a million bucks a year or getting immediate released an aggregate one, hundred, thirty, five, million, four in a shares Zach. Ten accident over. And I about you. You know like I'm not ventured more, but I know a lot of veteran. Even you're making a million dollars mortgage and this word mutant State Development. Venture. So Talk over. But you're making a million bucks or more a year current. You're sitting a big bat history of and future of capital gains. You're probably not the highest priority task for our tax. Our. Priority in our country and attack group of. The estimate is like forty, three, thousand, super rich people will get an aggregate one hundred. Forty thousand. You know there's joint committee on taxation. We've sort of unbiased source analysis in you know it's it's not hard number, but it's pretty everybody's sort of pointing to the same meeting. Roughly forty thousand. Super well off of Americans and what just. So that I'm clear. What's the line to be considered in or out of that forty, three, forty, five, thousand in terms of income or net worth. Do you know Ted? Eighty percent. We make year W anyway and Jerry, you know the previous tap on these offering lawson was a half a million bucks, and they just blew that calf way to get to Gush Win, and so they think in twenty twenty. Yes. Mature Making nine billion notable lifetime this on your. Hundred nine billion. Congregated so. Hard I mean even I I read everything. I can't about I'm not as precise explain. TV. But but finally, memories January. Kind of. Leading arms, operating losses, things, time them just go away now, his take them all at once. and. How can it be the tax? The money is going to people making a million dollars, a year or more. All receivables. and. He like I don't. You're guy like I've been a lot of the great things. But but at this point I think we have a responsibility to say. No they feel like we're on the titanic and a bunch of are really powerful swimmers. Titans log, exactly swim safety there. But we should be the first ones. The lifeboat drawing outgrew for mothers enchants. Step back and say really did use desperately needed this we. and. That's what's happening, and so now we're right up against stars who year schools are their local as crane pointed out their local and state budgets been hammered. So many of over phases by Detroit. And then we're getting huge power mix of things. Here's what's happening right stony best in education or saying you know maybe it's time to retire. Its mission impossible. Keep telling me do more and more or less less well On. Of course, their health is potentially at risk as well. Right? Now. And if it sort of very discouraging when you're on the line and you start to to make a very important point is that? Maybe, the number Eight year olds that are dying. You know that you know only a tiny number of died. We talked before we were uncertain about the long term impact. You have. An older teacher. Or you're a younger teacher, but you're living with your your parents. I mean like there's just like the these tentacles go deep and and we people put loved ones lives at risk or their own life at risk. You know like wait like least treat me with some rich back. Then we don't. I think bringing nearly trust the respect to our teachers and we don't pay them what they deserve on site. and. and. Then we wonder why we've got a shortage of teachers. WHO WOULD WANNA be a public school elementary teacher a new public school elementary teachers starting in August of twenty one. It hazardous duty pay, and they're not the only ones. Right. And we do it to the military, and then we screw over the DA and don't give property. It's just again and again I. Feel Terrible. 'cause I sound like I'm not a Bernie Sanders popular. Are you a venture capitalist turned socialist? Is that what's going on here, Ted? I am. Pragmatic centric looking for Bowl bolden from that I think aren't mutually exclusive. You know and like those that wing of things just railed on. Anybody working to help share company was greedy whatever. And I think a lot of people working seven day weeks that are gonNA come up with stuff that Eilly league through the all that said. There's just like it just we just can't keep going. We're the people. Who are on the firing line or getting the worst deals and? You know like wait a minute. There's just a a level of. You know. Big Pig that doesn't mean you should should push yourself to the front of the Trough and pushed aside the smaller pigs I mean I do feel like when I mean, I, I, was on the National Venture Capital sociation for four years on that board and I. I. Think. It's probably dared saying I think people would agree that I was the one person saying their aspects, the capital gains tax that don't make sense. You, know you know that's a longer discussion, we could get into it but but. A lot of the people that are getting really attractive. You know tax rates are making. Now in venture, you know five, ten, million dollars a year guarantee current. But that it's like you know like, wait a minute. You know, do you really want to pass a hacker lobbying? Doesn't get rethought anyway, and I'm all four. By the way you know thresholds and making sure the employees. There's you know like we screw over employees would be start ups with with the fact that they are generally paying ordinary income way stock options or structure. But we can't keep even in that narrow sector in startup world. You know we sort of give a bad deal to the to the employee to join give a great deal to the founders and then. For Tale. That's okay. Wait, a minute, well, you and I could have congress. Could have a whole conversation around. How. In my opinion, the stock option had a material impact on creating Silicon Valley and our last twenty, five years. What what was generally believed to be a good deal in certainly a good deal for me as a young kid coming up has turned into a faulk job, but that's That's a whole other conversation. So I, just WanNa make sure I really get it. If I'm an educator or parent, and I'm grappling with a very spooky set of realities here, what I'm hearing from Tad who's studied the best schools in the country and is this VC business guy turned into this education? Advocate guy is. Focused more on. Are they learning and less on what they're learning? Try to do things. TAP INTO INTRINSIC motivation. And the thing that I was trying to unpack in my mind, and this really want to sort of see if I'm interpreting what you're saying right. When you gave the example of sort of building a website that track covert in the neighborhood or or whatever. The thing was. What I heard you say is you see kids thrive when they're? Working on some kind of a project that has some kind of intrinsic meaning to them. That's creative has some complexity to it requires multi-discipline. So going to have a little bit of a technical a little bit of a design, a little bit of a marketing little bit of a data analysis and math etcetera etcetera, and the example that you use. and so that really maybe where I should be thinking, how do I as a parent? How do is an educator use zoom use the new paradigm that were that's thrust upon us here to tilt more in in this kind of direction. This kind of Project Intrinsic Multidisciplinary Kata collaborative thing that has some kind of an outcome that the kids can point to on the one of the thing I thought I heard you say have some connection to things that are valued in I think used the term, the adult world, but I just so did I synthesize that close? Way, better than I could and. The other thing is as well. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, and so you're gonNA see a lot of people obsessing about you know like being on doom getting those lectures. The normal stuff is and if I were if I were. In a community where people were a bit risk-averse because everybody in this environment tends to be pushed more toward risk of her side of themselves. I say hey y'all like there. Lot of school, not a few, but the fact is. You, know something that's got some real traction of the genius, Todd. You know which sort of came from some of the great things with Google where they give. Twenty percent time to work on whatever you want to. So. Hey, why don't we say one day a week is totally there for student to to buy something. They're interested in and star running with it, and you know that a lot less threatening. But then let's check in three weeks later at C., which is going well, which state are World War three with. The battle and everybody ending up hating each other and? The teachers don't I can say the distance learning oxy moron. It's like teachers don't WanNa be talking dude zone. That's no fun. Students don't want to be on the other side. You know it's like nobody's really saying Oh, my God. She's great. You know it's. Generally viewed I. Think is is. Pretty. Unproductive to counterproductive. Maybe you just start with heyday week. You know and I. Actually think if you ask a kid what would you love to do? And they don't know. That's actually a great point of departure for getting that kid back on track. because. You know if the kid gets through the into their school process whether it's after twelve years, you're fourteen years or sixteen years. And they still don't know what they WANNA do or can't even think of something they loved to do or lost their willingness or interest to wait into something in the US or you know doing all the people you know like it runs. You're you're you're hoping with great podcast series is. Come up your different, you'll like the bold you are itching to do. And if the kid says nothing I, think we've let that kid down into. This is a great time to think. No. No, that's right. Okay. After you wouldn't have given them into your useful. So, thank more what you really want to do, and also is a time for experimentation. Yeah. Let's say I'm not being cheeky. Let's say I really am a Pick and h a thirteen, fourteen year old that doesn't know the answer to that question on. I'm not being sillier cheeky or whatever. About it isn't this powerful time to say to that younger person? Hey. Well, this is a cool time to try shit. So what about this? What about what about music and creative in? In what about writing and what about math and what about whatever it is? Right. There's a whole series of things. We can go try because sooner or later if you figure out enough things that you're not attracted to what you are attracted to become a lot clearer. Yes. And I, think it's important. You know. We actually have this resource called the innovation playlist and I can I can. Put it. You know on your side, but please one one of the things that we captured at school, which which would make a lot of people nervous. But but it worked incredibly well, they call it DSE. Do something cool. To It is wide open unstructured. They just say the kids on Wednesday afternoon and you've got thirsty Friday over the weekend. But do something you've been itching to do you just think would be cool but. Come in Monday and be prepared to present what you did to your classmates and your teachers, and it's very motivating pursued. Friends are going to be looking at what they did, and they talk about you know one kid wrote a book that got published. You, know several right song several at know like I would say if you do that from time to time, don't dwell on. You know like it's a song. I mean like a song can be a winner just as we're talking about rap music, do some because that's wide open unstructured. How far back lit should be set. If you say we'll take two day. Weekend. I'm betting which it's draw that. But others are more focused on an issue like I. Love. You know like history like, but but when I interview most kids who taken history and I, say, what did you learn history class? They'll say I learned I never wanted to st get. The ultimate heartbreak. But you know the interesting thing I hate to interrupt you but look how Popular Hamilton is yet. Yeah. Now, nobody said to the kids. Hey, we're GONNA talk about. American. History today. They said there's this great new show called Hamilton. It's interesting because and I I don't know. You tell me but I don't track these things super closely that thing looks like a smash hit everywhere I turn around. There's a Hamilton something. The juggernaut. But think about this, right. It's. Like I. Love My venture friend. But if somebody comes to them and said I wanNA, do a Broadway, musical on Alexander Hamilton tied primarily rap you. What do you think? Say You, gotTa be, Kidding Bat. One never go anywhere. Do. Album. You know and and yet that bold. You know we we down. This is sort of relevant. To. A lot of different circles of life. But we at one twenty years ago, I'm not active. Anymore, but we started in nineteen seventy. So we have a pretty. Pretty deep set of portfolio companies and somebody must be had the idea of lip. Look at our investment historical investment. One that we were all there and remember it's Sorta look at two things. One was how successful the investment buzz on by. The other one was. What they're, what to, what extent was there consensus in partnership when we made investment? And I think the working assumption was that the best investments everybody were confused about, and then it would kind of taper down in the ones that were like people saying I'd be embarrassed. We put our name on, that would be mediocre and and a lot of the failures you know it was exactly the opposite, right? Right. Our very best. Investments were when at least one person partnerships and that's the stupidest thing I've never heard unembarrassed. And he'll said fair enough. But I'm putting my reputation by I mean fire me if it's a total, but I believe that. And you realize has those great ideas always find the base of kind of what everybody thinks is the right way to do it, and so why don't we encourage our kids in that brought you like the idea that seems like kind of a rack idea won't work instead adult micromanaging it saying on. No, that's no. No. Don't don't do that. You know like here's something that's more. You know more likely to give it to work out. They go with Jimmy shy just as you. Give it a shot and three dates. Now, let's revisit what whether it's. But let's see what you can do and honestly somebody somewhere. I don't know Linda? Wild? Miranda. Dad and. More credit to Louise's because somewhere along the line lin-manuel said to his father, I'm thinking about doing this father instead of say. I would be embarrassed by Sunday. Well go for it. You'll like who the hell knows. This might be interesting and and you just realize that if you can't. Kids I mean, fundamentally. You either you believed in human potential, you don't. And, I, believe that human potential and I believe these kids have interests and and I get really excited when I spend time with four and five year olds because there bubbling over with interest and what people tell me you know, but you can't let kid with interests. We need to put down the threes bore eight, twelve, sixteen years of contact with this for they can actually do something with it. I. See you know. With. Hang out with the two girls love dinosaur, and let's talk about contact with this. Because he is expelled Stegosaur. These kids know everything about action heroes are injector snakes or storage figures whatever their content. Vacuum. Cleaners, and so you realize like, do we feel like the most important thing and this is so true today I think it's the fundamental. Essentially, she do care most about requiring our kids to learn something some committees decided. It's the right thing or do we care most about whether kids are learning? Do we look for books? Types of things? They Wanna read the plate of their interest in and say, great, it's just read twenty books on soccer. You know or do we say? No, you gotta read You know whatever some book. From Yeah and and you just say well now. Seems like there's an awful lot of upside particularly in this environment. Of going with what the kid wants to do and try to broaden it. Just let it be annual and it's back to the whole thing of communicating to your classmates and teachers what you did. It means that the kid says Oh something. Cool. I'm going to spend the next door days just playing video games. You know. What are you gonNA. Tell your classmates on Monday? I play video games, or that's not really consistent with the spirit here. But maybe maybe some kids you know going back in time says, Oh, I got. This is to do getting kids playing video games and they get. To Watch people. which would be probably. Dom as Hamilton but turned into twitch, try which was. Utterly somebody's a venture guy said, we're GONNA do we're GonNa let People Watch other people play video games i. Know, you're just doubling down on the biggest wave at the time I can imagine, don't you that? Well, it was a good. He reminds me I, forgetting his name now but the founder of masterclass. I think they've done such housing job he and he was talking about the early days of the idea I was listening to this on I. Think it was the Wall Street Journal's website. Anyway, what he said was the stupider people think your ideas and the more people disagree with it. The more he likes the idea and he said look nobody. In himself. And his co founders had any background in online education or any of that. They just thought. You know what? if you will, if you were going to learn basketball. Wouldn't it be cool to learn how to throw a three point shot. By being taught by Steph Curry. And there was well, you're not GONNA get Malcolm. Glad well, and Steph curry and Margaret Atwood and on and on and on an owner Aaron. Sorkin, and all these unbelievable people to teach a class in the thing that they do that you, you can't do. That's not gonNA to happen well. And so I just love that you know the stupider the idea and the more people disagree with it. Maybe maybe the maybe the. Maybe, the greater, the idea just sort of bring it full circle contract you things, right? Watson young adults. College, Seniors through early mid twenty late twenties. I I have to say, we've sort of taken the daffy out of them. You know what? I call them, go fetch a dog biscuit kids. You know like, tell me what I do to get an A. and you know how interview kids that I college seniors. I'll say, so what are you going to do next? and. Generally, it's I'm going to sign up for a bunch of interviews and Chris, serves ball pits and hope I. Get a job and my backup plan is to get a master's degree. And and I'll say you know like I'm just curious like if you WANNA create a career pathway forward right now. What would you do? and. Now we do. They not have any ideas, but look at me like wait a minute. You mean, that's an option. I mean, I could actually create a career path. Now, and you know talking to the right guy about this, right? I. Gather you blew up college entirely and and just sort of set, and those are the people I love the people that self confidence to say I. Don't need some credential, i. i. believe in myself, the people that has no. They can learn how to learn the people that just they i. see it for what it is, and it's not for me. I mean those are the people that change, but we largely prove that out of people but. out of our students, but now I, mean I'll give you an example. Right? You know we were talking about things kids can do. About this, what at the at the adult in school, turn it over to middle and high school kids and said in bet learning. Tell us how you WANNA learn this school year Kerley constraints. You know you can be at school and most a couple of days a week or not at all. You know clearly, you need interaction support with adults and need to drawn each other for community. In that talent, you know like work alone or in small teams and make us on what will work how you WANNA look. Agency. Yeah let that. If. The students say, here's what we WANNA do and we do with, they're gonNA, feel that much more motivated to make it succeed. And use like instead we're GonNa, you know? Listen the Bessie boss I mean, really. All Right Ted clearly I talk to you about a lot of things for a very long time Is there anything that you would like to touch on before we wrap? I would just say this I mean in. Sort of a recurrent theme for me. A lot of people say, how'd you get interested in education? I say you know I, I. Am. But what I'm really interested in democracy. I'm interested in a functioning civil society, and we're in this extraordinary time where we're buying by metaphor, it's like everything in. America been put under a magnifying glass. You and that what he's been blown up by 10x are doing you see him as one bullet up by ten. X, and ultimately I think. Education gives you a great perspective on. Kids that can get by and do well, bridge kitchen screwed over what we're doing to people to perform an essential role in our society like teacher administrators. and. So I think, we're it's kind of a wreck time. Right? And like the next six months gonNA tell enormous amount. You know we get this right. Which I hope we do push four and. I, wake up thinking about go to thinking about or we're gonNA keep shoveling one hundred and thirty, five, billion dollars out the door to people making a million dollars a year and bore and tell her schools were cutting your budget, but do the impossible, and if you don't do the impossible, will Yankee. Even more money out and by the way that money tied to the kids that need the most help, I, mean. I. Know How that in you know what I feel I, could it. Too many Americans come through just been. They're they're Kinda. Feel Adrift, they feel invaded. They didn't get good in twelve, fourteen, sixteen years of school. They've got a pile of student loan debt or they're looked down on because he didn't get a college degree, but they don't have skill or proficiency undermine largely been. Shaped in a way. That's not helpful. You know you can only pile up somebody adults like that on the sidelines before. You know bad things happen to democracy and. So. You know. Maybe maybe we'll look back and say this was the wake call. We need it. That's what I hope. But maybe we don't. That's what makes it. So interesting, right, and I think we'll know a lot in the next six months, not everything, but we'll know a lot. Ted You're amazing. I. Really really appreciate you coming back and sharing your thoughts given everything that's going on the transformation that's going to happen here or that is happening in front of our eyes and education. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Right back to you your voices in my head to listen to you a lot. But you you have the most interesting. I'll be the outlier like people listening say, yeah, everybody else has gone interesting. because. Of concerning, go that, you see people on the interesting, but you get your, you show what gauge conversation can be you you. You know you ask great questions, which is an incredible skill, but we could perfect during the pandemic with our kids. But. Most high school kids. You know the question, I hear Damascus will be on the test. So it's I'm grateful I. Think it's inspiring. I think elevates the discussion and I was GONNA walk by. Hour, and a half whatever look, you know he played his okay. I'm taking this on I'm going to go for a walk at that I that I learned a lot from that like energizes could be a a look at what it'd be point forward to thank you. You're welcome and actually if I could steal you for just a sec on this. There's sort of been this ongoing. that. I've had. As a result of starting to podcast. which is A. There was a point in history where. Being part of being an interesting. Dare I say, even important person. was being a good conversationalist. That we, there were some people who cared about. Long before smartphones in anything like that two people sitting down. Looking each other in the eye and having a back and forth. From place of curiosity and interest. And of course, we all have our opinions and beliefs and so forth, and so there can be nudging and pushing back in disagreement, which is all fine. But this notion that part of what makes a successful human being is the ability to have a real conversation. And then the other half for me is. And maybe it's because of my dyslexia and Dyscalculia and I call it. All Fuck. Leah But I learned through listening. and. I learned through conversation. I learned what you're thinking, what you've learned. I. Also learn more about what I think and learn what I have to sort of both. Articulate something to you about what I feel or think or. I try to also digest it and play it back to you to see if I'm if I'm picking up what you're putting down, and so I guess that leads all that leads me to a is why love podcasting so much. Is it possible? We're going to have part of this education breakthrough. Through an understanding that many of us. Learn. Through conversation. And Bake it totally Bolt Circle Imagine kids docket at home board not feeling all interested in being a doom as you said. Topic you care about create a podcast theory. Find people, interview and energy them come up with your thoughts and go question. Tried to get other people to watch or listen to it, get their feedback, and she wouldn't can come up with I. Mean, how much would it kid learned from that and be deported and wide open on what they picked their humor topic? Maybe, but they could be a youtube, Jerry's or something. And you just say would kissed me interesting that, oh. My Gosh, I think not every but many many kids would find it really interesting. Could you? Alicia, a lot of creativity and curiosity in that You know I'm sure I'm sure when you took this on, you had no idea where it was going to go like I'll give it a shot. You know that's the same sort of sense of waiting into ambiguity and saying you read out I've got confidence I can figure it out as I go. Yeah. But if you wrote a book about this in retrospect and said how much I learn from organizing podcast series. I, mean, off the charts, right? Oxygen. How much did people around? You weren't from your podcast series? How can that and so that kind of warning I advocate for? The student cares about. Something that helps them develop killed matter and your team technology skilled. Language Arts Guild of curiosity engagements get I mean it's a whole set of things. We know even you stop doing a podcast tomorrow, you would have learned so many important things that would-be whatever the next thing you chose to take on. You'd be way more effective in moving in that direction. And and getting that sense of the domain and purpose. From doing something than someway affected, reach the world around you. Again, you would kind of love a kid to do a podcast on. I'M GONNA do podcasts on life as a help you're working community. Or I'M GONNA do a podcast on people going to banks to get food. That's what. Most parents would say it's great. That's what I probably would have put. My kids would do. They would probably jet I. DON'T WANNA. Do that right I'm going to podcast on. It back to Jamal Bowman and rap. Going, but but I would say, okay, you know the podcast I want right now and I thought about starting it I. Just I'm not in a place where I have the time to do this. I thought what's one of the greatest things that's happened since co bid. And in my opinion there Karen Videos on the Internet. I Love Them. And by the way, there's clearly male Cairns, as well as female Cairns, the mail ones in some cases. Bail native is so yeah. They're just calling Karen's which I think. Makes it even better like this? That's a Karen. Anyway here's idea. The first. Karen Video Review? PODCAST. Slash Youtube Channel unbelievable. I would love to see somebody funny or maybe a couple of funny people do like a movie reviewer Book Review. Now. Why is this a great Karen Video? Yeah. No question I look at that, and the thing is great idea that is and it's a great idea. If we took kids in middle and high school really gave them a chance to think. That they come up with a bunch of different things, every bit as compelling, interesting that you know and and back to what you know. It's like don't obsess about the fact that you know that that Karen video would be this incredible window. into all these divides our country, right I. Mean. It would be funny. It'd be interesting. It would generate could have. Terry. You know but. Do it. Well, right. Do it. Well, that's that's the key thing with all these people that the the groups I loved that I write about celebrated. Student take on these projects. But they hold it dry standard. You know we supposed a hat project. That's not okay and you're going to get feedback from your friend. and. If it's not good, they're going to be telling you because one of the things we want is are your peers be good critiquing you? And the ultimate form of accountability. So there you go. You know like Oh my gosh, you know whether it's wrong for PA chapter story. Like a million different things. But man you know, would you be kicking yourself in? June. If you at least a lot of kids on a challenge like that, come up with a podcast series, you'd be excited to do. And then do what it takes to make really good, and we're going to be looking at the quality of it. How many other people you got to actually it regularly to that. Was a good test of whether it's effective or not. I, don't know you know just right there. It's just right there. Well, Ted I, I. I really appreciate your thinking as I said, and I think it's a powerful thing if we can. Look I know it's tough and I mean, no means WANNA put a by no means. One put whipped cream on dog shit however. Maybe, there is a way. Some of US can look at this as an opportunity to be super creative and accelerate some of the positive changes that we're looking for an education and I. Really. Hope you. I really thank you for helping to show that way. I, mean, there are people doing this and and and they're feeling a just an incredible sense of progress joke. Links and we got this video that'll be out sometimes September, than they do it I, do see behind you and I love letter code. Though you like I like the Way. To say goodbye is in my mind here. By. Midnight. Well, why don't we just say for well for now? And Not I? Thank you so much. You're awesome and please send the links asap. We're going to rush this episode out given how timely it is. Excellent. Thanks. Take care. Thanks you too. bye-bye. Well, there is the legendary Ted Dinner. Smith. And check out his great book. What school could be wherever you get legendary books also want to thank my good friends at one life, fully live dot org helping dream, plan and live your best life. You want to make a difference in helping the spark entrepreneurship and self reliance at this. Challenging time for. So many of US check out one life, fully live dot org. My friends at Autry trinet of been building legendary B.. Two B. Websites in Silicon Valley for the better part of twenty years, they want to help you conquer your category visit at r. e. Dot, net. My friends at bottleneck dot online at one, a help scale you because they are the distant assistant company they've been physically distancing before physically distancing was a thing, check them out bottleneck dot online and do your folks think your company is awesome. Well. Well if they do, that's great. If they don't regardless how to become employees. Awesome is through socrates dot. Ai Socrates is the leading digital conversation hub and listen right now being in communication with your employees being able answer. Critical HR, employee related questions has never been more important. Imagine being able to text or talk any question to your company and get an answer that's socrates, dot a check them out and become employees. Awesome. All I need to remind you that today's podcast is the sole property, the law? Law Law cast. If, you're going to have a podcast learning how to say your own last name might be advantageous. All rights do remain perturbed, but we must warn you that clearly this odd cast gets produced and created in a studio that contains nuts and the creators of this odd cast will more than likely consuming libations remember make legendary learning happened support your local educators in schools by John's crazy socks listened to the sage words of Leonard Cohen Hey. Don't be lame. Get outta the passing lane. Remember it's illegal to go slow in the left hand lane in the United States of America Thank You Candy Dandy I. Love You dearly Love you too mom and dad, thanks for always being with me yeah. Hey Colin decide cast really ties the room together. Doesn't it today? Our deepest apologies go to Carson. Sweet. Not so sweet at all the CEO of cloud passage. Sorry Carson, we just ran out of time for you. That's it. My friends Please stay legendary. Be Good. Do each other peace be with you. In any other great thing you could think of to say at the end of a podcast and I, look forward to seeing you on our next episode follow your different.

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Google Unveils New EU Political Ad Policy - DTH

Daily Tech News Show

03:31 min | 2 years ago

Google Unveils New EU Political Ad Policy - DTH

"These of the daily tech headlines for Friday, November twenty third twenty eighteen type strap Alito. Google announced the role of new political ad policies in Europe to increase transparency and to comply with a code of conduct agreed upon in September starting January Google require advertisers to apply and be verified before being allowed to pay for political ads as also carry disclaimers disclosing specifically who paid for the concert. Google. Also publish a transparency report with information on adspend an targeting as well as a searchable at library. The Wall Street Journal reports that American officials are briefing, allied governments and foreign telecom executives to avoid using telecommunications equipment from Weiwei governments briefed include Germany, Italy, and Japan among others as these governments are considering making long-term capital investments in five G. The US government is reportedly considering subsidizing the purchase of telecom equipment from non Chinese providers to key allies. A new study by the university of California Santa Cruz found that over the last two decades ninety percent of workers in San Mateo, and Santa Clara counties. Ak- a roughly Silicon Valley have seen real wages decrease with median wages decreasing by fourteen percent. The study found that if labour sheriff production had been the same in two thousand sixteen as it had been in two thousand and one workers would have received an additional eight thousand four hundred eighty dollars. This fall in wages comes amid skyrocketing housing prices in the region September housing study by Zillow find that the average Santa Clara county homeowner spent fifty four percent of income on their mortgage compared to the. National average of seventeen percent. Disney's annual earnings report revealed that the company's ESPN channel two million subscribers while Disney channel, Disney junior and Disney XT all lost three million Scribner's since these channels are commonly included in cable packages, often seen as bellwethers for court cutting Disney's ESPN, plus streaming service seemingly made up for some of these losses gathering one million subscribers since launching in April. The Wall Street Journal reports that Apple's had to offer subsidies to Japanese phone carriers to help discount the price of the iphone ten are after slower than -ticipant initial sales. The report also stated apple has resumed production of the iphone ten in order to meet a minimum production requirement from their own supplier Samsung, applications, stop selling the iphone ten with the introduction of ten essence of timber but previously reintroduced discontinued models to select regional markets. Officials in New York and Virginia have both confirmed that half the jobs brought by the new Amazon headquarters will be tech jobs there, meaning jobs will be an administration, custodial HR and other support positions. Amazon previously stated the average salary for the positions at their Long Island city HQ would be a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. And finally Japanese carrier NTT doco announced that it is a cheap five G speeds of seven gigabits per second in outdoor trials the first test surpass twenty gigabits per second using a single terminal attest us base station antennas mounted on outdoor wall to direct beams at ten is installed on vehicle proof tops this ally for several data streams to delivered in parallel making it ideal. For public transit was part of Japan's ministry of internal affairs and communications on five G, my technology. Remember for more discussion of the tech news of the day? Subscribe to daily tech new show at tech new show dot com or in your five Joyce, thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next time. So from all of us here at tech headlines. Remember have a super sparkly.

Disney Google The Wall Street Journal Apple Amazon university of California Santa Santa Clara county ESPN Japan Europe Zillow Santa Clara New York NTT Ak Long Island San Mateo Joyce US
Google Unveils New EU Political Ad Policy - DTH

Daily Tech Headlines

03:31 min | 2 years ago

Google Unveils New EU Political Ad Policy - DTH

"These of the daily tech headlines for Friday, November twenty third twenty eighteen type strap Alito. Google announced the role of new political ad policies in Europe to increase transparency and to comply with a code of conduct agreed upon in September starting January Google require advertisers to apply and be verified before being allowed to pay for political ads as also carry disclaimers disclosing specifically who paid for the concert. Google. Also publish a transparency report with information on adspend an targeting as well as a searchable at library. The Wall Street Journal reports that American officials are briefing, allied governments and foreign telecom executives to avoid using telecommunications equipment from Weiwei governments briefed include Germany, Italy, and Japan among others as these governments are considering making long-term capital investments in five G. The US government is reportedly considering subsidizing the purchase of telecom equipment from non Chinese providers to key allies. A new study by the university of California Santa Cruz found that over the last two decades ninety percent of workers in San Mateo, and Santa Clara counties. Ak- a roughly Silicon Valley have seen real wages decrease with median wages decreasing by fourteen percent. The study found that if labour sheriff production had been the same in two thousand sixteen as it had been in two thousand and one workers would have received an additional eight thousand four hundred eighty dollars. This fall in wages comes amid skyrocketing housing prices in the region September housing study by Zillow find that the average Santa Clara county homeowner spent fifty four percent of income on their mortgage compared to the. National average of seventeen percent. Disney's annual earnings report revealed that the company's ESPN channel two million subscribers while Disney channel, Disney junior and Disney XT all lost three million Scribner's since these channels are commonly included in cable packages, often seen as bellwethers for court cutting Disney's ESPN, plus streaming service seemingly made up for some of these losses gathering one million subscribers since launching in April. The Wall Street Journal reports that Apple's had to offer subsidies to Japanese phone carriers to help discount the price of the iphone ten are after slower than -ticipant initial sales. The report also stated apple has resumed production of the iphone ten in order to meet a minimum production requirement from their own supplier Samsung, applications, stop selling the iphone ten with the introduction of ten essence of timber but previously reintroduced discontinued models to select regional markets. Officials in New York and Virginia have both confirmed that half the jobs brought by the new Amazon headquarters will be tech jobs there, meaning jobs will be an administration, custodial HR and other support positions. Amazon previously stated the average salary for the positions at their Long Island city HQ would be a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. And finally Japanese carrier NTT doco announced that it is a cheap five G speeds of seven gigabits per second in outdoor trials the first test surpass twenty gigabits per second using a single terminal attest us base station antennas mounted on outdoor wall to direct beams at ten is installed on vehicle proof tops this ally for several data streams to delivered in parallel making it ideal. For public transit was part of Japan's ministry of internal affairs and communications on five G, my technology. Remember for more discussion of the tech news of the day? Subscribe to daily tech new show at tech new show dot com or in your five Joyce, thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next time. So from all of us here at tech headlines. Remember have a super sparkly.

Disney Google The Wall Street Journal Apple Amazon university of California Santa Santa Clara county ESPN Japan Europe Zillow Santa Clara New York NTT Ak Long Island San Mateo Joyce US
Mr. Bidens Opus

News O'Clock

19:23 min | 1 year ago

Mr. Bidens Opus

"Joe Biden talked about grief and healing. As he accepted the Democratic nomination for president, there are almost two dozen wildfires burning across California right now, forcing tens of thousands of people to evacuate their homes, and if you've got frustrated with video calls during this pandemic, you're not alone has one senator demonstrated today the date. August Twenty First Two thousand twenty. K. Everyone. I'm Haze Brown and I'm Casey Rackham welcome to Buzzfeed's news o'clock and very happy Friday. Hayes. A very happy Friday the happiest I'll Friday's I am so excited to sleep and just enjoy life on the weekend. Before we dive in quickly I saw something in teen vogue that I want to chat about real quick. It's that apparently despite being you know distant learning for a lot of schools around the country Paul, we still enforcing dress codes. Wild. On even in the building that's absolutely ridiculous foot I'd need to go talk to these administrators decided this because I am a grown adult who has worn the same three things on vacation every day for the past five months and they are all tied I. I cannot like I can support the idea of like, okay. Kids get out of pajamas like really like get yourself ready to face the day of learning. But like enforce strict dress codes, I can't support that like let the kids be they're stressed as it is if they have like a favored like comfy sweatshirt that might not be too like your standards to. Yeah I totally get the point of people being like listen getting out of your pajamas makes you feel like separate from like a work life balance kind of thing, but it's like A. Pandemic. Please they are trying to do the best. They can let them drift out. They want if you WANNA wear a blanket over your shoulders during class that'll make you feel better. Go forward. Say. All right time for today's top stories. Here's what you need to know. The Democratic National Convention wrapped late Thursday, and after four nights of remote speeches and prerecord videos, it seems to have gone way better than expected. We've mostly talked about the big name speakers this week but last night, a teenager had one of the most powerful speeches at the convention. Hi, my name is Burton Harrington. Nine thirteen years old. And without Joe Biden I won't be talking to you today. About a few months ago I met him in New Hampshire. He told me that we were members of the same club. We we. Star. Brandon went on his gripe how Biden had shown him the book of poems. He'd read from the practice how to speak without a stutter and how he marked his speeches make them easier to say aloud neither say brandon was a big hit online among viewers. The idea that Biden is a person who cares what a major theme throughout the. Convention. Right up to his acceptance speech alongside his plan for Tackling Corona Virus Biden spoke deeply about the grief the country's feeling. Law. I understand. I understand heart is to have any hope right now. I'm this summer. Night. Let me take a moment to speak to those you who have lost the most. I have some idea how it feels to lose. Someone you love. Deep. Black hole that opens up in the middle of your chest and you feel like you're being sucked into it. I mean cruel. And unfair. Life can be sometimes. But I've learned two things. Your loved one may have left this earth. But they'll never leave your heart. Always. Be With you. You always hear the. Second. I found the best way through pain and loss and grief is to find purpose. As God's children, each of us have a purpose of in our lives. We have a great purpose as a nation. To open the doors of opportunity to all Americans to save our democracy. To, be a light to the world once again, it all Biden gave what most observers including on Fox News called one of if not the best beaches of his career. And meanwhile, this year's wildfire season California is already off to a chaotic start with several uncontained fires already burning around the state. As of this morning, California's cal fire website twenty, one active fires with just the three largest buyers alone having burned roughly half a million acres ready for context. That's the size of thirty five Manhattan's the number and intensive wildfires is. A lot for this time of year sparked by a late season heatwave and lightning strikes that said dry out vegetation ablaze. One of those fires burning. Santa Cruz County has already prompted around fifty thousand people to evacuate their homes and last night. The University of California Santa Cruz issued a mandatory evacuation order for its staff and students as fires approach the campus. The crisis is also overlapping with the corona virus crisis. The state usually depends on prisoners paid about three dollars a day to serve as firefighters during the peak of wildfire season but the Sacramento Bee reported this week that the state has quote placed twelve of the state's forty-three inmate fire camps on lockdown due to a massive outbreak at a northern California prison in Lassen county that serves the training. Center for fire. Crews. Yeah I'd say there's a much better way to go about that than paying inmates three dollars you know and the better way to do that is to don't do that. I completely agree like these are all volunteers apparently kind of I mean there's been a lot of reporting about this over the years, which is wild in another itself. There there's. They shouldn't be made up of volunteers. Volunteers are welcome, but it should be. An actual thing that the government is paying for no, I completely agree with you like the idea of getting cheap labor to do this it just clashes up against the idea of like I can see like in a much better more gala, -Tarian world where this could be like an actual like work training situation rehabilitating people getting them back out so that they have skills to take a one theory of serve their sentence but the fact that it is basically just being used as cheap labor just really it's weird in the system. Yeah. And then going back to the DNC speeches last night just truly last night was such a show of empathy which really has been lacking these last four years from the president. Honestly, and the government is just the word empathy and seeing that on display was just it took me aback low, but you know haven't seen it in a while. Yeah. For sure like even just listening to that clip from Biden again just now you could hear the emotion in his voice and you felt really That pain as well? I mean someone on twitter said something along the lines up there just so many people in this country right now where if you went up to them, look them dead in the eye and said, this is so hard. I'm so sorry that this is happening they would just absolutely fucking lose it and I feel like that's something that Biden really captured during his speech one hundred. Percent All right Casey what have you got today. I. I'm sad to say that group. Paul's drag race contested in fan favourite Chichi devait passed away yesterday at the young age of thirty four vein also known as Avion Davenport made her debut on season eight of drag race where she was acquitted fan favorite she wound up finishing in fourth place before competing again in season three of the shows all-stars format. became popular not just for her flips and kicks but for her honesty about her struggle to speak out for gay rights in her hometown. Shreveport Louisiana, the exact cause of death still isn't public but shortly, after season three of all stars she announced that she'd been diagnosed with Scleroderma, a disease that attacks the connective tissue between Oregon's. Drag race creed or Rupaul said in a statement quote, I am heartbroken to learn of the passing of Chichi debate. I am so grateful we got to experience her kind and beautiful soul. Next out mega stallion got on instagram live last night and directly accused repertory lanes of shooting her last month after weeks of wild theories being thrown around Meghan said that the shooting happened after an argument in the lanes SUV with only her her friend lanes and his drive are present when she got out of the car near her house to end the argument she said Lane started shooting at her from the backseat details about the shooting which required. Meghan. To get bullet fragments removed from both feet were originally sparse with TMZ first reporting that she had glass in her feet she accused lanes and his people of spreading that. She also explained why she didn't initially tell the police to the scene she had been shot. The police come I'm scared audit shit going on with the police the police shooed my focus for anything. The police was literally killing black people for no motherfucking reason soon as the police tell us I'll motherfucking car the police is really aggressive. You think I'm about to tell the police we niggers US black people got a gun in the car. You want me to tell law that we got a gun shoot all of us up against. A helicopter. According to TMZ and the L. A. Times La's district attorney's offices. Now, considering charging lands with assault after originally only booking him for possession of a firearm and singers, Colonia? Joe Joe have both said they're dropping him from plant collaborations man that video from Megan's intense it is. It's true. Why would she want to say that she has a firearm in that car I completely understand that and what a horrible position for her to be in she had just been shot right and the people who in theory are supposed to be there to take care of the person who has shot you she's worried about his. Life and her life, and the fact that they might start shooting. If they realized that there's a firearm in the car that we already saw the pictures and videos of her limping down the street leaving bloody footprints behind and the fact that they she had to go through. That is just so much I mean she it's just not right right and the fact that she also had to show off her wounds on instagram earlier this week to prove i. know this actually happened please look at this what a mess I hope she finds some form of justice in all of this it's just a lot. Okay. Yes. I. Hope She does get justice. And moving onto some rare good news on this Friday. The Great British bake off is coming back this year. After delaying production when the pandemic hit, the show tweeted out earlier, this week that they'd wrapped filming on the most recent season and to do so they filmed for six weeks nonstop two days on two days off like other reality shows bake off had to find ways to work around pandemic in an interview with the British magazine broadcast. The show's producers said, they basically had to create their own quarantine bubble to make the show work. They did that by renting out entire hotel for the hundred twenty people involved in making the show that included twenty hotel staff eighty staff from what productions and twenty children's chaperones and dog walkers and unlike past. Seasons this season contestants couldn't go home during the week to practice their upcoming books. Instead Love Productions Executive Kieran Smith said they built twelve kitchens were bakers could do their preparations away from the eyes of their fellow contestants. The premier date for the new season hasn't been announced yet, but should air INS channel for this fall. This is some much needed news. I am so excited now I am I'm excited to see what it looks like to was actually nervous at first when I read this story that was said today's onto days off because I'm like, Oh, I got no they have to go home and be with their families in practice there. I was like they better. Get ample time to be practicing. This seems like, yes especially since they have nothing else to do like normally they live their normal lives while they're also shooting this show and a practice at night if they have real giant. upsides and downsides to this because it's like, ok before it was so many weeks where their lives were just like a mess and they were so happy I mean they all look. So frazzled at home interviews with like Yeah Yeah I got into my job but also this so at least now they can just concentrate on visit fabulous show and experience right but I am sad for us if it's if it's airing on Britain's channel four this fall that means Netflix's again for a bit unless they're double airing. Probably. Not but we'll talk after this about ways you can get around that. Yes. Late. All right when we come back, we're talking about the most relatable thing to happen in the Senate history stay right there. Oh hither news o'clock producer Allen here have you ever wondered what millions of Americans and three former US presidents have in common ends up they all agree that bollandbranch shows are the softest and most comfortable pure organic cotton sheets on Earth Bollandbranch cotton is rain Fed pesticide-free and carries the highest organic certification. That's why it's so soft with everything going on in the news in the world sleep is more important than ever and that's why I love my. Super. Soft Boll and branch sheets I sleep on Boll and branch sheets, and so should you? Sell direct to you. Boll and branch sheets start at just one hundred and sixty dollars their thousand dollar quality for a fraction of the price plus you can sleep on the per month risk free. Right. Now, you will get fifty dollars off any sheet set at Bollandbranch. Dot Com with Promo Code News Oh Spelled B. O. L. L. Andbranch DOT COM Promo Code News O N E W S for fifty dollars off Bollandbranch DOT com. Promo. Code News Oh restrictions may apply see bollandbranch dot com for details. Welcome back Summer Fridays are in full swing here still, but we have time for one more thing and today it senator Tom Carper having a hard time with his zoom connection during a hearing today when the committee chair called on him to speak. You, Senator Darker. Their. move onto a senator Lyford. L.. Kevin I think Senator Carper is there I think he's going to be able to do it all right now. Senator Carper. Can You annute I'm on I'm on. There we go. We don't want to be on. TV again. carpers. Spokesperson later put out a statement saying quote like most Americans in two, thousand, twenty or carpet got frustrated with technical difficulties this morning. But that pales in comparison to his frustration with the postmaster general who's actively undermining the US policy during the crisis. Honestly. I must ask who among us, who can't relate to that. I am laughing so hard at the person who was like. Yeah I think Senator, occurs there. I mean, that was senator like James Langford if Oklahoma who normally I disagree with on like most everything but. That was amazing. That was. Forms. Just, taking the time and moved on but I think that she might be. Yeah I mean I have you know when my screen should have been horizontal vertical I haven't unneeded myself quickly, you know like I do all these things. So I understood all these people who haven't had to use technology like this. It makes sense right? In it's not just US I mean it goes as far. So Richard Grenell who was the US ambassador to Germany and also Berry shortly director of national television's he had gotten a little bit of a Senate about the fact that a CNN reporter tweeted out about that little meltdown from carper and thought it was funny. But that Gates Republican of Florida said on twitter I have never disagreed with rick more that video is holding me together today. and. That is the kind of Unity I. Think we need in this country right now I, love that also bringing that to earlier. We were talking about the zoo. Outfits that you have to wear the dress codes. I watch Tiktok last night where it was this girl who is supposedly in class and she's like my teacher just said that you can't be in bed you can't be wearing joe keeps ranting about it and then all the sudden you here an man's voice go excuse me that is not what I said you gotTa. Silent because she wasn't on Mu. And you just like she says, this shock face enter teaching basically saying the world actually are and it is the best. Fail and dress. Code fail upper. Bad that warms my soul that makes. Me Happy all right everyone listening. You have a story about your biggest zoom fail over the last few months that you wanNA share owed up the voice memo APP on your phone. Tell us your story. Then send that file news o'clock at. Buzzfeed. Dot Com that's news o'clock all one word or you can just on twitter we're at news o'clock on there too. That's it. 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332 - Anchor's Away Part 4

Science... sort of

56:20 min | 7 months ago

332 - Anchor's Away Part 4

"The audio you're about to hear was recorded anchor. Learn more at anchor dot. Fm and saint sorta dot com. You're listening to science. Hello and welcome to science. Sort of this is episode. Three hundred and thirty two and here to talk to you about things that are sort of science things that wish. They were sciences. Just me right helped. Sorry we've been off the air for a little bit. I know a lot of podcasts. Take a break around the holidays. We are sort of doing that but we also sort of got interrupted by me defending my dissertation. So i am now done with grad school and with being a candidate and now i'm just ryan helped. Phd's that's pretty fun. I've been really excited about that. But i also got a new job that i'll talk about later on and just hit the ground running and busy with the holidays and it's been a tough time for everybody so for all of their listening. Hope you're doing well. Sorry for the delay episodes. An anchors away episode for today anthology but we have more content recorded. It's gonna be coming at you in the new year super excited hopeful about twenty twenty one hopeful about the vaccine getting out there. Hope everybody's doing okay should be pretty fun. Anchors away i'm gonna talk about some up gore five stuff that i was doing with you at their annual meeting which just happened So it's kind of a good refresher for that talk about whales of talking about dogs. It's gonna be a lot of fun. So i will jump back in a little bit too tight about what i'm drinking and then ran at the end of the episode with a quick paleo powell and let you on your way to enjoy the holidays enjoy some rest and enjoy the upcoming new year today. I thought i'd try a little experiment here on organized curiosity the anchor station devoted to cataloging everything. We know about the natural world for your entertainment. I'm your host ryan helped. And here's the experiment. I had in mind when scientists are working on research a lot of times. We'll have preliminary data or something. That's in progress that we're working on making into a paper and so we'll submit it as an abstract or short summary to a organization. That's having a meeting. So for example as a paleontologist vertebrate paleontologists in particular. I try to go to these society. Paleontology's annual meeting every year. Which means that. I have to submit an abstract to that meeting to get the opportunity to present my work as either a talk or poster. I'm actually in the process of working on my abstract for that exact meeting. But i'm taking a break the record this last year. One of the meetings that i like to go to the american geophysical union annual meeting had a cool session so the way it works sometimes with these meetings you can submit an abstract to specific session that centered around a specific theme and they had a session that was dedicated to writing your abstract using. What's called up. Goer five speak. This is based off of an ex k d. comic that randall. Munroe did where he described a saturn five rocket using only the thousand most commonly used words in the english language kind of exercise and emphasize some of the struggles that can be had when trying to describe complex technical things using only common words. The exercise was so successful that lots of meetings have actually adopted the same sort of format for a session. And randall was able to put out a book called thing. Explainer that you can get online. Which has more than just the saturn five being described using the same language. So i thought it would be fun to try to submit some of my own science or at least the idea of my science in this format. I've taught writing courses in the past to graduate students and this is actually an exercise that i put them through to ask them to simplify the way that they write about their science. And i don't think it's a perfect way to simplify the way we talk about science. But i think it is illustrative in showing some of the pitfalls or at least some of the blind spots might have when it comes to the jargon and technical language that we rely on to communicate with each other that might make science less approachable to people outside the sphere. So with that. I'm going to come back in just a second and read my abstract that i submitted to the american geophysical union meeting and then i'm going to try to translate that into actual science talk and we'll see which ends up being the better example of science communication as voted on by you the listeners to the station so stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment with some very convoluted science. All right. stay curious out there. There's a lot to learn. It's ryan here from organized curiosity and just a reminder of what we're doing today. I'm reading an abstract that. I submitted to the american geophysical union's annual meeting last year where i had to describe one of the science research topics that i am interested in only the thousand most common words in the english language. And i'm gonna read that abstract to you to see if you can make sense of it. The title was using very very tiny things. That are a bit heavier than almost the exact same very very tiny things to understand much. Bigger things like animals. Here's the text of the abstract everything that is is made up a very very tiny things you were made up of these things and so is the air you breathe the water you drink and the food that you eat there is an old saying you are what you eat. The saying is true. Sometimes the very very tiny things that make up our little bit heavier than normal sometimes being more heavy as bad. And if you hang out with for too long you will get sick and die. We're not talking about that. Type are type totally safe just a bit heavy as all being heavy does not change what the thing is but it does change how the thing moves around the world and if we look close at things like animals we can learn about what went into making them that way. We do this using state of the art boxes with lights and computers and other stuff inside we can figure out how much of a thing is made up of the very very tiny things that are a bit heavier but still pretty much the same as the other very very tiny things. Why does this matter because sometimes we want to know if an animal eight other animals or if at eight things that grow out of the ground that are not animals why not. Just watch what the animal does because sometimes the animals are hard to see because live up in the trees or deepen the water other times. The animal has been dead for a long time so long that it might not even have any family left. It's sad but it happens. Turns out the numbers. The box gives us our from the body of the animal. That was doing the eating so we can know what it was eating that way and we don't even have to watch. It is important to know a lot about the boxer. We are using and also about the animal and types of food. The animal might have eaten. But it's still a great box for learning about animals and all sorts of other things too. I work a lot with an animal named after one of the seven bad things. We're told not to do the one where you don't really do anything at all. You just sit there doing nothing. Maybe eating sometimes but that's a different bad thing than the thing. I'm talking about today. So they live in trees where it rains a lot but there used to be a different today. They live in trees where it rains a lot but there used to be different types of this animal that lived on the ground in the water wants. What were they doing all day. Good question but to answer it. We need to learn about the ones that are in the trees today to even though they are different air still family. I hope what. I learned helps. Keep the animals around up in the trees for a good long time. All right so you think you have an idea of what it is. I was actually talking about their. Please call into the station and let me know. Be really curious to see how this actually played with a general audience because so far. I've only read this to bemuse scientists who chuckle at the linguistic hoops. I have to jump through to make this work. So make sure your favorite the station so you will be alerted when my response to what this actually means goes live here shortly and until next time. Stay curious because there's a lot torn out there right here for organiz curiosity and today. I've been doing a bit of an experiment where i read an abstract that i wrote using only the one thousand most common words in the english language and in my opinion it's a bit convoluted and doesn't necessarily get the point across that i was trying to make unless you already knew what the point was or had visual aids so this abstract was accepted to the meeting and i had to of a five minute presentation where again i was only allowed to speak using the thousand most common words but i was allowed to have a powerpoint presentation on the screen. So that obviously helps because you can show the thing you're talking about even if what you're saying is very convoluted terms. But what i've yet to attempt is to reverse engineer my own abstract back into actual scientific jargon lingo to see if i can even make sense of it and if it has same kind of flow i intended it to have when i first wrote it so without scripting this out ahead of time. I'm just looking at the text of the abstract. I just read in the previous segment. I'm going to try and re say it with proper science talk and if you were getting ready to call in to see if you could guess what the abstract was about based on the previous segment. There's a spoiler warning. 'cause i'm about to reveal what it was actually about. Everything is made up of atoms. You're made of atoms. The breed is made up of atoms. The water you drink and the food that you eat there all atoms. There is an old saying you are what you eat. This saying is true. Sometimes atoms are a little bit heavier than normal. We call these isotopes. Sometimes being more heavy is bad so those are radioactive isotopes and if you hang out with them for too long because the radioactive you'll get sick and maybe die. I'm not talking about radioactive isotopes. i'm talking about stable isotopes. So they're totally safe. They don't radioactively decay. They don't emit any radiation. They're just a bit heavier than the normal form of the atom. That's what i mean. When i say that being heavy doesn't change what it is because it's still has the same number of protons and electrons so it's still the same atom so it's still a carbon or an oxygen just instead of being an oxygen the ways sixteen it's an oxygen and the way is eighteen so because chemical reactions rely on energie. Heavy atoms moved through chemical reactions differently than their lighter counterparts. So even though they're chemically the same the physicality of how they move around the world is different. This difference can be reflected in the tissues of animals dependent on where they live. What they drink and what they eat so we can actually measure the tissues of animals and the ratio of the heavy to light. Isotopes in those tissues can tell us something about their diet. Their water source their geographic location or movement across the habitat of things like that we can measure the stable isotope ratios using what i called. State of the art boxes with computers. But what i would actually call stabilized. Mass spectrometer why it is making these measurements matter. So in the case of something like nitrogen isotopes we can use those nitrogen is setup ratios as an indicator of where the animal fed within the food web so if it was a carnivore eating other animals or if it's an herb of or eating plants or if it was an omnivore somewhere in between the nitrogen isotopes can tell us that why is this better than just observational studies. Because sometimes animals are really really tough to see or track so for things like wales that live out at sea and are really difficult to observe all the time or things like slots which live up in trees. And don't actually do much that often it can be easier to just take tissues from those animals and analyze those instead of putting in all the time and energy just trying to observe them directly this also really useful in the case of extinct animals because extinct animals can't be directly observed so you have to use these other sorts of proxy to figure out what they were doing especially in the case where they don't have any living analog so i look at grounds loss. There's nothing really like a ground sloth in the environment today so we need to use other techniques to figure out what they were doing and that's the jogos making the animal named after one of the things we're not supposed to do. I was saying the seven deadly sins one of which is sloth. They do also eat. Sometimes but they're not gluttons they live in the rainforests but there used to be all different kinds of slots that ran around on the ground and even marine sloth lived in the water. We're trying to figure out what they were doing all day. But part of that question can be answered by looking at the stable isotope values of their living relatives the trees loss and then using that kind of baseline data to go back in the past and figure out the ground loss ultimately our hope is to use these techniques to better understand how these animals respond to climate changes and perturbations because at the end of the day all of these are still one big group of animals and the hope is that by better understanding them as a group we can help make concerted conservation efforts to keep flaws around for a long time to come. So that's written if i was just writing the way that i tend to speak but i was limited by the thousand most common words and now you can kind of see the difference and hopefully i would guess. This version made more sense to people. But maybe didn't and i'll be fascinated to hear some feedback from also call in. If you have a hot take on what you just heard. Thanks for listening to this station for more content like this every day and until next time. Stay curious there's a lot to learn out there. Ramp up of gore. Five day here on organized curiosity i your host ryan help. I'm going to do a little bit of reflection on this exercise. And what. I think it kind of means for science communication and how scientists talk to other scientists versus how scientists talked to the public. I think forcing scientists to right in the upper four five language is a useful exercise to get scientists thinking about the way that they communicate. I don't necessarily think that it's the best way to actually communicate. I think the silliness of it can be amusing but not necessarily informative. So what i mean by that. Is it's amusing to watch scientists kind of dance between the raindrops and avoid relying on the words that we become so comfortable using as part of our jobs. But i don't know that it's actually informative so saying that you study temperature changes in the big big. Blue water is amusing. But isn't it more clear. Just say ocean. Also the word sea sa not the letter is in the thousand most commonly used words which got me thinking about how some of the segments i do on this show better. No route rely on a good understanding of latin and greek but english is a germanic language meaning a lot of the most common words that we use an english. Don't have latin and greek roots actually come from older germanic sources and so a lot of our thousand. Most common words are coming from that. And so there's this bias against science words because science words tend to be the more highfalutin version of a given word so see comes from german route whereas ocean comes from a greek root. I think so. There's a little bit of a bias there in that just the way. Science is typically spoken about in written. Can't be used because of the limitations of the exercise. That's one another is. I would argue that jargon. Insci- conserva purpose. There's a reason we use the words that we use. And it's because typically the words that we use even if they seem jargon in the same way a physician would use them. It's the most succinct or precise way to explain the concept that were saying. Yes it does mean that you have to know what that word means in order to understand what's being said but among scientists we usually do. The problem is when we speak that way to the public without thinking about how difficult those jargon terms might be. If you weren't already familiar with them the things i like about. The upper four. Five challenge is that it provides really clear limits. It makes you use really unambiguous words for the most part one example. I've seen where a word that is a common word but maybe can be used in a science. Context is fault so we would say someone's at fault for causing a problem or doing a bad thing but a geologist would use fault in the term of plate tectonic boundary. And so you can get away with saying fault in the upper four five language. But you're meaning might be more ambiguous than you intend. I think it's a rare case but it is something i've thought about in approaching this exercise another cool thing about this exercise is that we tap into pop culture a little bit so sometimes scientists are a little bit aloof. They don't necessarily want to play the pop culture game. But you know this is taking a joke that web comic made and kind of riffing on having a good time with it and i think that's not a bad thing for scientists to think about trying from time to time when trying to connect with the public and then the ultimate conclusion i kind of came to is that i see it as both pro and a con but this exercise forces researchers to think differently about the way they present their work. And i think that that's almost always a good thing. It takes time and energy that could be spent doing other things but sometimes that self reflection is needed and isn't always done and field that is constantly having to justify its existence to the general public and government officials who might not want to give money to science. I think it's really important for scientists to think about the way we communicate and make sure we're doing a good job to get our message across so that everyone can get excited about science so so you enjoyed me kind of going through this exercise today. I would really appreciate any applause. Echoes you feel like handing out and be sure to favorite this station for more content like this every single day until next time. Stay curious out there. There's a lot to learn logging. Organiz curiosity i'm your host ryan helped and today it's news. You probably cannot use except this time you might actually be able to use this pay attention. Cheerios sending out packets of wildflower seeds in an attempt to help make sure that be pollinators have wildflowers in their area to keep those populations healthy. The seems like it should be a no brainer right. Plants and flowers helps some mp's but there is unfortunately problem. I hate to be that guy who's just like well actually. This was not as helpful as you think it is. But actually it's not as helpful as you think. It is because cheerios are being a little bit indiscriminate in the way that they're trying to get the average consumer to help out with this problem and it is indeed a problem. Be populations are declining. Thanks to this thing called colony collapse disorder in addition to a general loss of habitat and use of insecticides herbicides that both the bees and hurt the plants that they would use to feed on so the packet that you might get. Cheerios actually contains a number of plants. That could be considered invasive in your local area to the point of being considered banned for example. The forget me. Not which i believe is alaska. State flower is not legal to plant in massachusetts and connecticut. You can't just send a packet of nice seeds that is going to apply equally well to every area of the united states catherine turner. Who's an ecologist who specializes in these kinds of things said first and foremost that when it comes to planting a flower context is important. Here's the quote note. Plant is inherently bad many species cannon have caused a great deal of damage when they are introduced into locations outside of their native range invasive species can out compete the native they encounter. They can take up all the space and use all the resources. It doesn't happen with every plant and in every location and scientists like me are working now to figure out why that is how to predict what will cause a problem and how to manage or prevent invasions so. I'm not trying to say that. This is altogether a bad thing. It's just you have to be very careful when planting seeds that you're not one hundred percent sure about in your backyard. There are ways to find out if the seeds are actually find a plant. There's a website called zirk sees x. e. r. dot org which will tell you all the data plans to your region including publishing regional gardening guides to help you figure out the best plan for a diy approach. The department of agriculture also maintains a usda plants database. Where you can look up a specific plant and find out of its native to your state. You can also look at the legal status to see. If the plant is on any federal or state noxious weed lists a big part of this push is being sold. As a way to help. Honeybees honeybees are obviously an important insect in our food economy. But they're just that they're actually an agricultural product and are pretty carefully maintained by the people's whose job it is to distribute honeybees around the country for various pollinating seasons. This is an actual business. That exists bees. Get trucked around the country and let out in various areas to help pollinate during that specific pollination season. I remember this being a big thing in california. When i lived there. And so those fees while they're still at risk from things like habitat loss because they're more domesticated managed thing. It's not as bad. The worst situation situations for native bees and a lot of those native. Bees are solitary a subterranean and don't even have stinger because they don't have a county or a high to defend so one of the things that's actually really important is to make sure that in areas that are really dense with different agriculture that you also have areas set aside as be habitats. Where you don't spray herbicides. You don't spray insecticides and you give those local bees space to kinda pollinate those plants and do their thing and as well as space to dig their tunnels and lay their eggs and continue their life cycle now. Fortunately general mills is actually helping with that. They are making sure that the areas that grow oats four cheerios which oats are wind pollinated. So you don't even need the bees and they're making sure that they plant dedicated pollinator habitat near or right next to where they're growing oats for the cheerios thing. I'm trying to impugn general mills efforts and intentions. It's just a little bit more complicated than maybe. It seemed at first one last thing. Because i saw it online earlier. Today is there is a web company called seattle's l. e. s. That will send you a seed ball kind like those bath bombs but full of seeds and those seeds will be specifically tailored to your region. So that's another way to go. Get some seeds if planting plants in your area that will make the bees. Happy is important to you. Let me know if for once this news was actually useful to you by calling into the station and remember to stay curious out there because there's a lot to learn never saw the science of if we didn't talk about what we are drinking and i am drinking a festive holiday beverage. It is called gluck. It is a swedish mulled wine. And my wife. Julie made it and it's delicious. And you red wine with mulling spices and you eat or drink it with brandy soaked raisins and almonds which can get a little protein little fruit and the cool thing is so dumb. The raisins julius me to buy some fruit to just have for snacks around the house. And i saw grapes there on. Sales go from some scripts. Great turns out. She's not the biggest fan of grapes. So the grapes. Just kind of sat there in the fridge for awhile. Groups turns out lasts a pretty long time in the fridge but then they are starting to go. I could tell and i was like. Oh man what do we do with. All these groups make raisins and i put them in the oven for hours. And eventually we have raisins and then we soak them in brandy so that we can have gloag and pumped back up to like half. Their original put just full of brandy instead of water. I guess and they're delicious. I who made raisins who knew absolutely fantastic. I will i think the recipe for the gloag is on the website. The my mother-in-law maintains four all of recipes. So if i can find that i found it i will Put on the website for this episode. And you can join that all right back to the content. Thank you very much chime listening to you in cork in ireland late on sunday evening. And it's my first day on anchor version two must say. I'm very pleased to to find your station because popularizing science talking about in a way that makes it understandable to somebody who doesn't have a scientific background is music to my ears. I've got a daughter away which eleven how one day will tech science very seriously. And i'm also a great fan of wales rafeh for met one. Thank you Time for a quick. This time sent in from paul from cork ireland. Paul wanted to thank me for doing the station which i always appreciate and mentioned that. He hoped his daughter would become interested in science. And that reminded me of a point. I like to make with people. And it's that as i do science outreach. If there are young people listening. Who don't know what they're gonna do for a career yet. Yes science should. Maybe be on your radar. I think it's a great job. The best thing. I think you can do is try to get work in a lab as an undergrad Which is what. I did and helped me realize whether or not this lifestyle as well as the aptitude for it was something i had and felt like pursuing but i also don't want to try to convert people to go into science just because it's what i do. It's a specific type of career profession. And it's not necessarily suited for everyone but sort of like stand up comedy or being chef. You don't have to do it professionally to still appreciate it so you can still laugh at a comedian. Joke and edith chefs food. And i think the same should be true for science. I don't want everyone to be a scientist. But i do want to live in a society where people are generally scientifically literate and appreciate the value of having science done as part of their society. So hopefully that's like a reasonable middle ground in terms of evangelizing. The science that. I do also wanted to touch on. What paul mentioned about not knowing any whales because that reminded me of a story we were talking about humpback whales and the super groups. They're forming and i didn't talk about it in the segment but i actually have been up close and personal with the humpback whale which was one of the more amazing experiences in my life so i did want to kind of touch on it and also touch on a little bit more about humpback whales. I was helping out with a summer. Science camp. When i was an undergrad at the university of california santa cruz which is on monterey bay home to many many different species of marine mammals. And one of the things we got to do as part of this summer camp was. Take the kids out on a whale watching cruise and while we were out on the way washing cruise we saw so many different kinds of marine mammals. It was incredible and we saw huge pods of dolphins. We saw a whale spouts off towards the horizon. And sometimes you can even tell which type of whale you're seeing based on the shape of the spout from the blowhole but the coolest part for sure was when a juvenile humpback whale so you know like only forty feet long really curious about our boat and swam right up to it because there are laws like the marine mammal protection act and because we were on a well watching crews that was conscientious towards the health and safety of the whales as soon as the whale approach within a certain distance. The captain kill the engine and basically wouldn't turn the engine back on until the whale lost interest and away and these are curious animals and they're stimulated by their environment so we got to spend probably about forty to fifty minutes with this one whale just swimming underneath our boat back and forth going from side to side one thing you learn about humpback. Whales is that because they have. These really large pectoral flippers. They are actually extremely maneuverable in the water. So this i'll never bumped our boat once even though it was only a couple of feet away and it would swim under and it would kind of rotate to the side. And it's one. I would kind of look right up at us and then it would spout from its blowhole and then do a one eighty and go back onto the boat and can do the same thing and it just kept doing that over and over again and while it was incredible i also learned that whale breath. Smells terrible we were getting moisture from the blowhole sprayed on us as the whale was doing this and it was so foul and terrible smelling in part because this type of whale humpback whale is mr seat which means that it has baleen instead of teeth so it of has hairy comb in its mouth and the way they feed is they will lunge into a group of fish or squid or large zooplankton. And then they'll take this huge mouthful of water that also contains all the food that they want to eat and then they have this really powerful tongue. And they'll use their tongue to push the water back out through the baleen filtering out the food and the food gets trapped in the baleen as the water gets pushed through it and then they swallow all the food and that's how they feed but because they don't have hands they never brushed the baleen so everything that gets trapped in there and doesn't get swallowed just basically rots inside their mouth but it was just so so bad smelling and had experience with other marine mammal bones and marine mammal bones. Also smell bad. They eat so much. Fish and squid and other types of seafood like that that the oils from those animals like infuse the bones and the bones themselves kind of greasy oily fishy smelling thing. I love marine mammals. They're amazing animals but that part of it was slightly less pleasant. So thanks for calling in paul and giving me a chance to talk more about wales. I always appreciate that. I was appreciate you guys listening. Applauding echoing calling him with whatever you have to tell me and with that i'm going to sign off for the day but remember to stay curious because there's a lot out there. Hello and organiz curiosity. The science station dedicated to cataloging everything. We know about the natural world for your retirement and kind of a special day because you might have to re catalog something. We thought we understood for a long time. And that's how dinosaurs were related to each other. So before i talk about what. This new research is proposing. I thought it would be good to go back. And take a brief. Look at what we thought about dinosaur relationships prior to today so in eighteen eighty seven. The group. Dinosaur area was divided in twain by british paleontologist. Harry seeley based on one striking difference between the two traditional groups of dinosaurs and that was the structure of their hips so the two groups are named after those structures. One group are the fisken's and the other group are the skins now or with ischemia literally means a bird hipped and sorace literally means lizard hipped. This is going to get a little confusing. So i'm going to try to be really clear with terminology. So in bird hipped dinosaurs. We have the pubis. And the issue them in alignment with each other. Whereas in these or risky and pelvis the pubis is facing forward and the is facing backwards. And it's a pretty clear difference when you look at the hips side by side so it seemed a pretty good way to delineate between these two major groups of dinosaurs. The risky riskin dinosaurs include things like the soro pods which are the long necked dinosaurs brackets or pat assorted platypus and also theropods. Which are the meat eating dinosaurs. Things like dynamite guests velociraptor and t-rex. Now where it gets even more confusing is the fact. That birds evolved from theropods. So birds evolved from the lizard hipped. Dinosaurs not from the bird hipped. Dinosaurs bird hipped. Dinosaurs are completely extinct. so the terminology. There has always been a little bit confusing but it's been pretty well established that this is the way that dinosaurs are related to each other up until literally today. So i think that's a clear way of describing that distinction in an audio format when you can't actually visualize it. Hopefully that gives everyone the background that we need to move forward to talking about the research that was published today coming up in just a minute here. On organized curiosity a paper published today in nature which is one of the most prestigious journals in the world authored by matthew. Berin david b norman. And paul and barrett titled a new hypothesis of dinosaur relationships and early dinosaur. Evolution has the world of paleontology talking and probably continue to talk for quite some time as i mentioned in the previous segment. Dinosaurs have classically been divided into two groups based on the structure of their hips. now most of the dinosaurs. You're probably familiar with are actually late additions to the dinosaur family tree in part that just has to do with how evolutionary radiation works when dinosaurs i began. They weren't as diverse as they would later become. But it also has to do with this process of fossilised preservation later discovery being biased towards more recent things so the more recently something died and was fossilized the more likely we are to find it and the more likely to find it in good shape intact with most of its details. Still preserved saw early early knowledge of the earliest dinosaurs is actually pretty limited. It's thought that dinosaurs. I around two hundred and thirty one to two hundred and forty three million years ago during the late triassic and it was also thought based on where earliest fossils are found that they evolved somewhere in the southern part of gondwana. One of the two halves of the single supercontinent that existed on earth. At that time at the end of the triassic there was a major extinction event. One of the big five mass extinctions. That have happened in our history that we're aware of the earliest dinosaurs survived this extinction and went on to diversify into all the new available habitats. That had been previously inhabited by earlier versions of other kinds of reptiles. But we're now empty because they'd gone extinct. Dinosaurs have these opportunities to go crazy. Adaptive radiation is the term. We use for it in evolution. The paper that just came out in nature is suggesting a pretty substantial rewrite in the earliest part of that story so the way this kind of research works in general is of a person wants to reconsider the evolutionary relationships between fossil animals. Is they take a bunch of fossils that are representative of the tax that they're interested in and a few groups that are out groups of that group so you get kind of inside and outside perspective of what's happening and then you pick a bunch of traits that are evolutionary divergent over time. You measure those traits very very carefully and then you use sophisticated computer algorithms to basically rebuild the evolution that would have had to have happened to get a group of organisms with those traits in those configurations as you measured them and what the algorithm does is tries to find a solution to that puzzle using the fewest steps possible. And that's called parsimony so basically it doesn't make sense to argue that something like a sea lion and a seal evolved completely separately. It's possible but it's more parsimonious to say that there was a single lineage of bear like animals that entered the water and diverged into things like see lines and things like seals. What the first author of this paper. Baron did that hadn't been done before. is he. Built a data set based on seventy four species of dinosaurs dinosaur adjacent species towards the base of the dinosaur family tree so he tried not to focus on things that came late in the game and really just focused on those earliest representatives that we have that that show us the beginnings of dinosaurs and based on his analysis. He actually pushes back the date of dinosaur. I arriving on the scene. Two hundred and forty seven million years so about four million years earlier than the earliest previous estimates and suggests based on the biogeography of where the specimens analyze found that they probably actually evolved in the northern half of the supercontinent loretta. Those are two really cool results but the biggest result that he got was that no matter how he put the tree together the way that it made the most sense was to put the theropods. The meat eating dinosaurs with the orange fisken's not with the sore pods. So he's actually saying that this hip structure difference isn't the defining feature that we should be using to separate out these two major groups of dinosaurs. So now we have a group called risk which only contains the bottom more of the long neck dinosaurs and a new group called clinton's which contains theropods and all the previous owner fisken's this is a pretty substantial rearrangement of all the dinosaurs that we know it doesn't change what we know necessarily about their lifestyle in ecology and behavior and functional but it does change how we thought that they were all related to each other and it does change where things like the origin of feathers which is really important for the story of how birds evolved because there are ski and dinosaurs that actually had feathery like ornamentation. That we've found in the fossil record and putting them together with theropods actually makes a little bit more sense from that perspective. One point that barron was really careful to make was that there is no one single trait that you can use to separate out the two groups as had been done previously with the hips it's much messier story with twenty one different harder to talk about features that characterize the new groups that he is saying dinosaurs fall into. This isn't cut and dry. This isn't totally the end of the story. It's an obviously a really big deal. It's something that's going to require a lot of discussions going to require a lot of people to go back double check his work. Rerun the results come up with their own tests. And if all that passes muster it's possible we might have just lived through what's called a paradigm shift which is when an entire branch of science has this watershed moment where everything kind of changes and it stays that way as the field moves forward and it's a big moment it's really cool to see. It happened in real time. It's really cool to see my friends online. Who aren't paleontologist or even scientists get excited about it so if you're excited about it if you have a strong opinion on whether or not you buy this new arrangement of all your favorite. Dyno's let me know by calling them to the station and remember to stay curious out there because there is a lot to learn still. Obviously we've just learned something new that's going to happen again. Probably basically what. I told my friends days. Don't come to science if you're looking for facts. That never changed. That's never going to work out well for you. All right bye flogged organiz curiosity. I'm your host ryan. How end today. Since its international puppies day. I figured we could start with a bio bio for the paper. We're celebrating today. Kanus lupus familiarity. The domestic dog. Obviously there's no way to fit everything we know about man's best friend into a single segment so i'm just gonna hit some highlights and hope that you are curious for more down the line and ask about it with collins. So let's talk about the word dog because it's kind of interesting in that. We don't actually know where the word dog comes from. It is derived from middle. And old english doc ga which was thought that was maybe a proto germanic term for something that was really powerful strong and monthly and with a diminutive suffix ga making it littler so like a little powerhouse. Tiny ball muscle. But that's just a theory. We don't actually know the we're just kinda shows up in english and is a legitimate mystery. How it i cropped up because if you think about languages that are closely related to english german. The word is owned. And that's where we get our word for hound come directly from our single common ancestor with the german language. It's a word unique to english that just appeared which is pretty cool. The appearance of dogs as a domesticated animal are also not quite clear. When i get the scientific name earlier i use three words instead normal to so i said kanus lupus familiar. And that's because dogs are a subspecies of gray. Wolves kanus lupus but gray. Wolves have a very wide distribution all around the world where people live and so it's hard to pinpoint exactly where dogs arose from the wolf lineage. In association with modern humans the archaeological record puts the first undisputed dog at fourteen thousand seven hundred years ago found buried beside human remains which is an interesting story in and of itself. Because the evidence showed that the dog's neck was actually broken which shows that by at least fourteen thousand years ago. Humans and dogs were so closely associated that when the owner died the rest of the people that were bearing the owner wanted to bury the dog with the owner knowing that it was a really important animal to that person in their life so they actually made sure that the dog was dead and put it in there with the owner. Now there are disputed remains that go back thirty six thousand years and you can imagine why this would be tricky. Because in the early days a domesticated dog probably didn't look superficially that different from a wild wolf in terms of the types of remains. We're gonna find after thirty six thousand years so the bone structure is going to be similar enough that it's going to be hard to really say if it was a dog or still a wolf but either way. Both of these dates are old enough that we're looking at a time when humans were still living in small tribes of hunter gatherers and not farming or using agriculture. And this also suggests that the dog was probably the first domesticated species because many other domesticated species came about with agriculture. So things like cats and horses and cows were necessary for agriculture to be successful dogs. Not so much. The general kind of thinking is is that you would have groups of wolves that would be living in close proximity to groups of human hunters and human hunters would bring down an animal and the wolves would want to scavenge from that animal and the wolves that were nice so friendly and didn't try to bite or snap or snarl would come close enough to the fire that all these humans were huddled around and get a little scrap of meat. And if you kind of separate out the groups of really aggressive wolves that didn't want anything to do with humanity and then only breed within the groups of wolves that were willing to come close to humans. You can kind of imagine how you would eventually get dogs. One of the coolest things about modern dogs is that because they've been selectively bred for so many generations there's a huge variation in appearance size and weight so much so that the genus kanus is actually the biggest range of sizes within a single genus of any organism on earth that we know of so the smallest dogs are only a couple inches tall on a couple of inches long and only way a couple of houses whereas the largest dogs can be in the hundreds of pounds range and stand three and a half ish feet off the ground at the shoulder. Thanks to their close association with humans dogs can now be considered the most widely abundant carnivore in the world. And i think it's a good thing because dogs are great dogs. They're the best dog forever. So that's a little bit about dogs and wolves and where they came from and where they are today and so celebrate the peppers in your life and we will see very soon with another segment so stay curious because there's a lot to learn organized curiosity so i was sitting here trying to think about whether you were talking about cells or i don't know i to listen to it again to actually figure out because i was so hung up on the fact that you were able to get an academic abstract out of the most common words which leads me to believe that we have. Academics are unnecessarily verbose and use large words in order to impress. And guess what what you read salves equally as complex but you used words that average people understand and i actually. We love it now. That may not fly the next time. I try to ride an abstract for a paper. I'm going to submit. But i really love that and i think that they're doing it. Amazing thing by having people used the most covid words cheers. Everybody is ryan from organiz curiosity and tachi called in with a response to my somewhat silly segment about the up. Goer five abstract challenge and she was really big fan. So i appreciate that. Because i tend to get a little self conscious in wondering whether or not this exercise is legitimately useful. And one of her points was that maybe scientists really do need to think about how verbose we are and try to simplify our language as much as possible. One of the best books on writing. I've ever read. That wasn't even necessarily a science. Writing book was the elements of style by strunk and white. It's a classic text and it's really short and fortunately otherwise. I think a lot of their lessons would fall flat berry very readable. Like it's actually is a page turner. Even though it's about the concept of writing one of my favorite rules from that book is to use as few words as possible to get your point across and to use the shorts where it's possible to get your point across and one of the ways that both make that point and then also undermine themselves is with the word rule s up station which means avoid being confusing. The problem is those two words are kind of confusing and kind of hard to say one after the other. So there are cases where you have to use more words to get your point across than less words now one of the things i like about the way that scientists talk is that we have a lot of fifty cent words that seem highfalutin but i would argue that. They're highfaluting only because they're not commonly used in everyday english yet. They do provide a very precise or information of getting the point across. The problem is when we talk that way not in our field and failed to define the terms as we use them and just assume that the people can keep up. Because that's not a reasonable thing for anyone in any profession to do when that profession utilizes specialized language which has very specific definitions within that field. It's annoying when you're car-mechanic does it talking about parts of your car. You don't know what they mean. And where they are and it's annoying when scientists it when talking about their research. So i think it's a thing that we have to all be conscious of whom we're talking to people who are outside of our sphere of the work we do. One thing i forgot to mention is that there is a text editor online. So touchy if you're actually interested in writing your next abstract using only the thousand most common words. They've made it very easy to do that. If you go to splash. Oh that's s. p. l. a. s. h. o. dot com slash up. Goer five slash. It's just a little text box. And it will underline any word that you shouldn't be allowed to use with the one hundred most common words in red so you can see it and work to get your story figured out using just those most common words so if it's an experiment that other scientists out there listen to the show wants to try or anybody who does anything specialized anand day-to-day basis. Go give this a shot. You know type a quick paragraph about the work you do and then call into the station and read it out to us so thanks again for giving me another chance. Talk about this and poodle free to call in with any other comments that you have all right. Thanks for listening to the station to get updates every day as i put them out and remember to stay curious out there. Because there's a lot to learn. I always kinda rushing through those first two segments but things a little slow down now. I was trying to get them all done well. Julia was out for a walk while i was working on dinner. Julian clementine came back. Dinner needed to be finished. So i had to run off and take care of now. It's a few days later. Turns out to take dogs outside again. Eventually they have to be another time and so they're out again. So i have a few minutes to myself to get this last little bit recorded. Time enough for a quick paleo pow to end the show ended the year of. Just wanna thank everyone who supported the show throughout the course twenty twenty. It's been tough we've talked on and off are sort of philosophical reasons for not diving into too much covid stuff. Hopefully once a significant portion of the population vaccinated and and. I don't know that we can return anything that could be constituted as normal but maybe at least the we can talk about some of the really cool science that actually has happened in regards to the pandemic and the new vaccine technology. That's been developed. There is some really cool stuff. And i think it's worth discussing but let's get through the end of the year before we do that and come in fresh for twenty twenty one. I'm having to report that we've already recorded the next coming after this. It's going to be really fun that tim helped me out a lot with. I think you should all look forward to that. I'm for my paleo pow. This week i would like to thank zachary for being a recurring donor is not the new patriot. System is the old school pay pal system where people just gave us a little bit of money every week without even a promise of reward just the promise of another episode coming down the pike eventually. So zachary g thank you so much for contributing to the show in that way we really appreciate it and kept going for as long as we've been at this so that's just really wonderful and means a lot especially in this holiday season. One of the things. You'll notice if you go to the website you'll see that instead of an amazon link. We now have a bookshop dot org link bookshop dot. Org is a service that works with local bookstores to sell books online. And then make sure that the local bookstores fulfills orders and ship. Those orders out and send them whoever they need to go so obviously you can get get a sense for who they might be competing with in this space. But we have signed up to be an affiliate with them. So if you to bookshop dot org slash shop slash science sort of you can see our science store page. I'm working on putting together a list of books by folks who have been on the show. Hopefully that will be a little bit more fleshed out. It's the sort of thing. Where if you click through that link on our website or go to our show page and then shop shop dot org. We will get a little bit of the money that you spend so will a local bookstore and so well you know people who maiden wrote and produced the book so. I think it's a good system. I'm really excited to support. I hope you all will join in on Making this a good system for us to get some books out there and get some science out there but also help out the local bookshops that i know van especially struggling this year along with a lot of other impersonal businesses. So give that a shot if you so choose and we would really appreciate it and give us some feedback if you have had experiences with bookshop or wanna tell us about some other way that we can be you help out local businesses during this time. Please don't hesitate to reach out. You can email us. Pay posits of dot com or reach us at the contact page on our website. Or call new voicemail. It's been a little while three to one paleo pals of three two one seven two five three six seven two. Oh and if you haven't had quite enough of me talking about things that are sort of science and sort of silly. I want to let everyone know that. I was really excited to be a guest on the monster. Talk podcast pockets. I've enjoyed for many years now. And i was talking about the loveland frog. Which was the topic. I covered one of the skipped episodes. I did so they reached out to me. Asked to want to go a little bit more in depth talk about some updates to the story that happened with my skip toyed episode. I did and it was super fund. Great time talking with blake and karen so give that a listen links will be available in the show for this episode or just search. Monster talk podcast. Whatever you Podcast and look for the most recent one should be me if not trying upside. There's lots of good ones there. Check it out it and with that. Thank you for listening. Hope you enjoyed this little anthology style episode to round out the year so everyone has a good couple of days of the rest of the year looking forward to a brighter and more hopeful. Twenty twenty one. We will see you all here. You all listen to you all in the new year and we will get through this next year together. Hopefully with a few fewer curve balls thrown at us all right this is. This is dr ryan how i did it. I finished the phd. Gotta go get to work another stuff signing off for twenty two thousand eight hundred four science and signing off for sort of visit science sort of dot com for show notes links to all the stories we talked about and waste interact with the host guests and other listeners. Science sort of is brought to you by the regular meetings network of podcast with audio engineering by ten tops of the encyclopedia brunch podcast. That's all for this week's you next time on science or weird on the end that i did but i'm alone and it's fine i like.

american geophysical union ryan fisken randall gore Organiz catherine turner general mills zirk Munroe paul wales rafeh edith chefs university of california santa wales cork powell Harry seeley riskin ireland
Plutos Liquid Ocean

SpaceTime with Stuart Gary

33:56 min | 1 year ago

Plutos Liquid Ocean

"Love this podcast support this show through the ACOSS support a feature. It's up to you. How much give and there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now. This space time series twenty three episodes, sixty seven full broadcast on the third of July twenty, twenty, coming up on space time, growing evidence that Pluto and the other lodge type about objects probably started at liquid oceans, Nestle looking at a new mission to the planet Neptune, and a new study says there could be dozens of intelligent alien civilization. Oh, maybe not. All that and more coming up on space time. Welcome to Space Time, we'd student Gary. The sternum is say there's growing evidence that Pluto and the other latch capability objects probably started out with liquid oceans which have slowly frozen over the findings reported in the journal Nature Science Suggests Chretien of new material. During Pluto's formation may have generated enough heat to create a liquid ocean, which persisted beneath e cross right through to the present day. That's despite the Dwarf Planets this orbit, some thirty to forty times further away from the sun the Earth. This so called Hot Stott scenario contrast with the traditional view, Florida's origins as a bull, frozen ice and rock, in which radioactive decay could eventually generated enough eight to melt some of the ice and former subsurface ocean, the study's lead copper Barrington from the University of California Santa Cruz says because water expands when it freezes and contracts when it melts the different hot starting coats dot scenarios have different applications Pluto's tectonics and resolving surface features, images of Pluto taken by Nasr's new arising spacecraft have allowed scientists to compare their observations with what's been predicted under these different thermal evolution models now if started out code and the Ice Melted Intern Lake Dwarf, fund would have contracted producing compression. Compression features on its surface on the other hand it started out hot. It would expanded as the ocean froze resulting in extension features on the surface and the images from New Horizons, a showing lots of evidence of expansion, but no sense of compression, so these observations are consistent with the idea that Pluto actually started out with a liquid ocean, Montjeu, the thermal and tectonic evolution of a cold stop. That has actually a bit complicated. That's because after an initial period of gradual melting, the subsurface ocean would begin to re freeze so compression of the surface with early on followed by more recent extension on the other hand with a hot stock scenario extension would occur throughout history. The authors say the oldest fitches on Pluto looks like this being both ancient and modern extension on the surface, the teammate energy sources would be hate released from the decay of radioactive elements in the Rock and gravitational energy released new material, bombarded the surface of the growing product planet, and the studies calculations showed that if all the gravitational energy was retained his hate, it would inevitably have created internal liquid ocean, causing practice much of that energy would ready edit away from the surface, especially, if the creation of new material occurred slowly, the oath is calculated that Pluto would have started out hot if informed over a period of less than. Than thirty thousand years, however, if Christian took place, every few million is a hot stat would be possible. Really Lodge impact is buried their energy tape in the surface. Then you findings also imply that other Lakatos boat objects probably also started out heart, and would therefore also had early oceans, and these oceans could stoop assists today in the largest objects such as dwarf planets. Arish a this space time still to come NASA looking at a new mission to the planet Neptune and a new study says there could be dozens of intelligent alien civilizations out Bay all maybe not all that and more still to come on space time. When this would you to? Spacecraft flew past the planet Neptune Strange Minute Triton three decades ago. It wrote what could be described as a punditry sites cliffhanger. Jacuzzi, any spacecraft to visited Nick June at its lift, lots of unanswered questions. That's wake. It takes the ice giant, one hundred and sixty five earth years to complete a single orbit around the sun, and the images taken by voyage to Beth Neptune at its biggest minute, Triton were absolutely stunning as well as be incredibly puzzling. Triton revealed massive Jack, plumes of icy material erupting from Chri. Chri volcanoes on its surface these plumes rose straight up into the sky until they reached high-altitude wins, which Herod the clouds across the landscape, and as material rains outta these clouds. They leave dock streets across the Fresno surface. Also the images showed that Triton's icy landscapes really young, and it's been surfaced over, and over again would fresh material, but it's not smooth like the Ice Moods enceladus. Instead Pat of it looks more like the service of a cantaloupe, and that raises the question exactly. What material is it on the surface? And where did it come from more basically? How couldn't ancient moon six times further away from the Sunday Jupiter? Still be active today. Is there something in Triton's interior that still woman have to drive this activity, or is it simply gravitational tidal hating from friction generated as Triton or its net June. Trying to untangle these mysteries Nassar a looking at a new mission, its discovery program to study the distant worlds of Neptune and Triton, cold trident after three prompt spe carried by Neptune, the agent room and got the see. The proposed mission is one of four now being considered. Depending on the budget battle up to two missions will eventually be selected next year for a planned launch lead decade aid, investigating Triton, and how it's changed over, time will give scientists a better understanding of how the solar system's evolved. The oddities of tried would fill an ALMANAC as an June rotates tried in orbits in the opposite direction, and now other lodge mood, and our solar system does that furthermore Triton's orbit lies in an extreme chills offset from Neptune's crater by twenty three degrees. Triton isn't alert each to be the only evidence suggests it likely migrated from the nearby capability, a rating of comets, icy debris frozen woods left over from the formation of the solar system, NASA circling the Sun, Beyond the orbit of Neptune. Triton has an. An unusual atmosphere Ed, which includes a my honest face in ten times more active than any element in the solar system Triton's climates, also dynamic and changing with a steady flow of organic material like nitrogen, snowing onto the surface, principal investigator Louis proxy from the Lunar and Planetary Institute says Triton's always be one of the most exciting and intriguing bodies in the solar system, tantalizing to images provide any glimpses of this crazy moon that understands, and there's mysterious cry volcanic plumes. We talked about earlier there especially intriguing. Plume seen on sentence Minnesota's and possibly also prisoner Jay Bilas, Moon Europa I felt because by water from. The ocean both moods, being forced through the thick ice crafts, if a subsurface oceans, also the source of the plumes on Triton, which lies much further out the solar system than either orange sodas, a discovery would give scientists new information about how interior oceans home unlike the other notion, world's Triton's potential ocean likely developed after it was captured by niches gravity matt raises. Raises the question of how if selected trident would expand is understanding exactly where in our solar system would exist figuring out what factors lead to a solar system buddy. Having the necessary ingredients to the inevitable including water would be one of the three major goals. The space craft could carry instruments to probe the men's magnetic field noted that attend if an ocean lies inside. Inside other instruments with investigate the intense ionosphere, organic rich atmosphere, and the bizarre surface features a second goal of this mission would be to explore vast unseen lands, Remember Trite Nuff as the largest unexplored solid surface. The solar system is side of the capability. Most of what we know about this moons come from the voyager two data, but the thing is only seen about. About forty percent of the mid surface trident with Matt Moore of their remainder and tried would use a full frame imaging camera to capture the same area do image, but in full mid June shine when the sun's reflected light illuminates the dark side of the tries in that way, scientists could observe challenges since the last visit Ellen more about just how active try is. tridents third major goal will be understand how that mysterious surface keeps renewing itself. This surface is truly remarkable. It's very young, geologically, speaking possibly any ten million years old, and it has almost none visible craters. There's also the question of why it looks different from the other icy moons, and faces unusual and combs, like put cantaloupe terrains and protruding planes. The answers could shed light on how landscapes development other icy bodies. Repairs launch date for try mission net geant. Triton would be October twenty twenty-five with October, twenty twenty six backup that would take advantage of once thirteen year window. When is properly aligned with Jupiter? The spacecraft could then use the gravitational pull of Jupiter slingshot strength to Triton for an extended thirty day encounter in twenty, thirty eight, if tried, derives before twenty forty side could determine what's powering the plume activity any later the Sun. Sun would move to North for the next hundred years together means the clock's ticking this space time still to come and you study says that could be dozens of intelligent alien civilizations out they maybe not and later in the science report you research warns that one out of every eight animal and plant species on earth is now heading for extinction and wit blame all that and more still to come on space time. guesstimate suggest could be around three dozen intelligent alien civilization spread around the Milky Way Galaxy it is of course one of those ultimate questions. Is there anyone out they or are we alone in the universe? But. Then there's the FERMI paradox, if intelligent life does exist elsewhere in the galaxy. Why haven't we noticed it yet? After all even star Trek, prime directive was awed more in its breach. Now researchers have updated their estimates. Suggesting there could be several dozen intelligent civilizations spread throughout the milky. Way Galaxy Lanier guesstimates adjust that guesstimates the based partly on an updated look at the old drake equation draft by astrophysicist Frank Drake back in nineteen sixty one. Drake multiplied a number of unknowns, the rate of star formation the bulky way, which we now know to be about once Sola Mess, Stop Earth Year. He multiply that number by the number of those stars with Planetary Systems, which we also now know to be most of them. He didn't multiply that number by the number of planets, capable of hosting life, as we know it, and we really any no our own solar systems example for that, and that's one planet earth. Multiplied that result by the fraction of planets will live at pays, and again we only have one solar system as the example so that still one and that number is multiplied by the fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life has emerged now I was gonna say we any of the one example of that US but based on what's been happening over the past few weeks. I'm no longer sure about that. And the result of all those calculations then multiplied by the fraction of. Of Civilizations that developed technical technology that's multiplied by the length of time that civilizations released detectable signals in space. It's all guesswork, but it's also a lot of fun. Consider postulate over this new study reported. The astrophysical journal has taken a slightly different approach to this problem, but using the same song formula using the assumption that intelligent life on other planets were formed the same way it did here on earth. The authors estimate it could be around thirty shakes intelligence. Civilization sprinkled around Galaxy. They criterias based on what science knows about our own planet star system, which after all the example we know of the sun, and earth formed four point six billion years ago, so the first requirement is that any host must be at least around five billion years old. Another is the need for the host Teva similar chemical composition. Son, after all, that's what allowed life. The form here on earth for such is also say that the number of civilizations depends strongly on how long they've been actively sending out signals such as radio transmissions from satellites, so on another important point is. is just how long technological civilization would last after all the high tech. Would we know anything around for a hundred years and being a few close cools, which could have brought it to an end such as the Cuban missile crisis with the world came very close to nuclear war. Now that's the one everyone talks about we now know that have been other similar close. Cole says well I guess Albert. Einstein put it best when he said I know not with what weapons will it will? Three will be fought, but world war four will be fought with sticks and stones. is also point out that if they're estimated thirty six intelligent civilizations, this correct, they went by with the likely average distance between civilizations, being some seventeen thousand lie is that would not any make detection difficult, but also communication her member, the most distant signals from Earth then he traveled about one hundred is after all thirty four thousand is a long time to wait for an answer to find out more Andrew. Dunkley speaking with astronomer Professor Fred Watson the possibility of intelligent life forms, existing within a universal more specifically within our galaxy, and the suggestion has been that they could be. At least thirty, which just sort of blows my mind, yeah, it's a it's a properly refereed publication. As you said it's the astro-physical Journal. And of course he's been picked helping the popular science media on looking at the story I actually did look at the original type of story I think the the The best account of it is in physics dot Org. Website, which is a great news website for physics and astronomy news so basically what we have here A. Rehash of the studies on the drank equation, and basically putting in new values and you can. Think about the drake equation. Equation, of course that's designed to give an idea based on probabilities of whether there are any communicable communicating extraterrestrial civilizations within range of us. That has remember rightly seven parameters in it. The guesses apart from one, which is we now know the probably old styles have planets which we didn't know when Frederick Police together back in nineteen sixty I. think it was so. This is a essentially re evaluation of the DRE question. Using some new statistical techniques said I did have a look at the paper this a lot in it. A lot of assumptions made of course as always to cut to the chase. They come to the conclusion. They also who? Who Best actually at the University of nothing in the UK the office come to the conclusion that could be at least thirty intelligent civilizations throughout our galaxy in other words, the the sun's home in the universe, the thing is just putting in context. Probably be and a half ago type came out from the University of Oxford. That said that number is actually zero, so other communicating intelligent lifeforms so rare as to be vanishingly small, certainly within our galaxy, a may be in the distant universe. We've once the so far away that it doesn't matter so in a sense you. You get what you put into it and you might save the same. The same sort of mantra that we we have with computer programs at rubbish rubbish out I'm not saying that these authors have put rubbish in that but in. This particular kind of study you can put in. Kind of putting what you like. And you get what you like out? There are big uncertainties of course eaten. Elise values the scientific piper. Itself specifies what the uncertainties aren't. The outcomes little allowed. But the best guess estimate think he found him. Abroad was thirty six communicating extraterrestrial civilizations with our galaxy, and it's based on things like cow lung civilizations lost and those things going to as well. But I suppose to come up with a number like that. You do have to make assumptions but Would you call them? Or would you take it further and say that there is some science behind it. You know. Is it a? Is it a reasonable number two to assume? The will say it is the certainly put all the right numbers in. They've basically taken the age of our Sun as being the yardstick speculating that the typical the four point six billion year-old solar system takes, say okay. We'll ask the typical length of time it takes to evolve an intelligent civilization, and then they put putting parameters as well like listed content of the sun now Meta Licitra to an astronomer means anything that's not hydrogen helium, so these are the heavier elements n Silicon Carbon Oxygen. All of those are actually considered by astronomers to be is because hydrogen alien, and so our son has a particular value of his metal content, and they've stuck in not as well in. In the theories they've got various criteria of weak and strong criteria that they apply that actually basically stopped off with different assumptions about what's happening just to give you an example of that. You know what I'm talking about. This strong criterion puts in the requirement full Esta to have the metal content same the same as that of the sun, which is actually quite rich, intimidates other elements, and that they're the elements that found their way into the ATHOL was formed under the things that we regard as normal environment, so the strong criterion says okay. Put to the metal content equal to the sun and when you do that, you get this the talkative civilizations in the galaxy now. The small limbaugh compared with a full hundreds of civilian styles in the galaxy phone. It's a needle in a haystack, but they in a sense, they're coming out with an encouraging answer to the scientific community, intelligence community could sort of create a catalyst for what to look for going forward in terms of maybe identifying STAS with life bearing planets potential. Law. That's Ri- invite US already happening so. And I've spoken at length about the kinds of solar systems, the the kinds of styles that might have planets that could support life by far. The Communist type of star in the galaxy is a variety of. It's nothing like this. These are red dwarfs much fainter than the sun, but they're also where most of the planets have been found partly because they're easy to find around red dwarfs, but you can have a habitable zone in a red dwarf, you could find enough like planet in the Habitable Zone of Red Dwarf, but what? We don't know too much. Much about how is the effective? The flags on the surface of red, dwarf said quite active in the end of the sons active, but also and so you find a strong candidate with enough flight planet around a Red Dwarf, and then realized it's being Boston lethal radiation from the star that tends to put down a bit, so it's more exciting when he finds sunlight style with a planet, the size of the in orbit around the right distance dot stops to look a lot more promising until they're the things that we should be looking for exactly. Yeah, I'm. A lot of people will be excited by the prospect of possibly thirty plus intelligent civilizations in a galaxy. The. Is that they suggesting that they on average seventeen thousand light years away which? Closed exactly on average, thus the distance, seventeen thousand light years, a long way full point, three lot years to the nearest star is a long way so when you talk about sort of distance eight eighths difficult essentially rules out. Any kind of radio transmitted compensation 'cause nobody wants to wait buddy full thousand years to get the answer back. She send a message there. That's Fred. Watson astronomer with the Department of Science, speaking with Andrew Dice Clay analasyst the program space nuts, and this is space time. And time now to take another look at some of the other stories making use size this week with a science report, a new study warns that more than a million platter animal species now facing extinction. That's one in every eight animal plant species known the findings by the Intergovernmental Science Policy Platform on biodiversity ecosystem services is based on a new analysis of some fifteen thousand scientific studies published over the past fifty. Fifty years now over the same period time planet Earth's human population has doubled from three point seven, billion, nine, hundred, seventy, two seven point six billion today, the fifteen hundred page study found more than four out of every ten and Fabian species one in every ten insect species and one in every three shots Marine Mammal Carl Reef building animals are likely to become extinct some within the next few years is. Study clings differences in a specific region of the brain. Stan might explain variations in attention in people with autism, a report in the journal Janiero side. Claims Researches got adult participants to watch lettuce flesh on screen, and then push a button. If the same lead repeat twice in a row they then repeated the same task, but with distracting noises playing at random times researches found that all the participants perform equally will, but those with autism had initially small pupil dilation. Jeremy Distraction Compete to other participants. The authors say the findings suggest an abnormality in an era of the brainstorm could. The look is curious, and it might explain why people with autism experienced fixated behavior and executive responses to external stimulation. Tenure study suggests that contrary to popular belief and that dressy movies first dinosaurs to walk on the planet, probably laid soft, shelled eggs one report in the journal. Nature suggests that Walton stills developed hard shelled eggs at least three times independently, the I, would likely soft, and were probably buried in moist sandals, soil, and then incubated by decaying plant matter similar to some ripples today, meanwhile in a second paper researches, describe a football sized soft show dino that they discovered in Dhaka the egg likely to be around sixty six million years old is the first to be found on the frozen continent. The way to the is a close second to one of the logistics of a found from any Aveeno non avian dinosaur. Paleontologists admit that instead of a dinosaur this might have been led by lots marine reptile such as Moses so. Claims Oda Planets have a better chance of supporting life which makes planet Earth Bet as good as against scientists from Macquarie University in Sydney have told the Goldschmidt Chemistry conference that rocky, except planets that he's spot. It's opening stuff other than our sun, which formed early in the life of the galaxy, seemed to have had a greater chance of developing magnetic field and plate tectonics and planets which form later on. See. If there's not magnetic field, the planet's not shielded from stellar radiation, and it will therefore tend to lose its atmosphere, and we know plate tectonics actors, the Thermostat for the earth, creating the conditions which allowed last volve. The Earth's core is primarily on the nickel, which some scientists that assumed would be necessary for tectonic development. However, the author's found that even planets containing very little I could still develop plate tectonics, the timing's right they say both these conditions are considered favorable for the development of life, and so they suggest that alien life exists now galaxy. It might have the vote earlier that galaxy history rather than later, and that planets which full more recently have less chance of developing life. We often talk about the growing problem of fake years, and they motto never letting the facts get in the way of a good story and disturbingly we seem to be seeing more and more of these days in the mainstream media. Although to be honest, it's always being there. Especially in certain meteorologists, after all like tends to high like, and that's led to a sort of inbreeding of bias reports calendar by opinion. That's because they think you can't be trusted to reach conclusions based on just the facts. There are also a lot of lessons to be learned about how to push fake news to the public from some of the more infamous hacksaw online Tim Mendham from a strain. Skeptics tells us about one. One if he covid nineteen conspiracy video that went viral very quickly. Easy as sophisticated marketing program, plan, Danny is a twenty eight middle I think it is little mini documentary, basically around the case researcher, who's come to the quite vehemently against the plan. They make pandemic. What I would regard. Is Conspiracy misleading information? She's anti vaccination. Duty megabits is her name. The documentaries about hurry about how badly she was treated by the system and that she was there for headphones to. On the activists foot because she was revealing a lot of information about the system did not want to reveal. The duck is full of the usual claims, Bill? Gates is behind everything that yeah. Flu Vaccinations increase the chance of contracting hybrid virus virus was manipulated and created wearing masks makes it worse for you also things five. Thousand. There's semi probably anything seeing their actually. Someone's described Hodgepodge of conspiratorial, paranoid and delusional claims. It was posted on Youtube with the. Media All at the same time, it's quite sophisticated publishing event, a range of different atlas radio outlets, and then followed up with other areas like facebook and instagram twitter even use link theme, which is the business matchup side? Anything going that that had any way from is in this documentary in quite was used because as often as soon as I was closed down, they were. And A grassroots campaign to spread the word. It's been thoroughly debunk people gone it point by point by point entire twenty minutes so here we have so many minutes. The American Association for the Advancement of Science Snipes, course in fact and we Kapadia the BBC Phobes. Even in death reports on Youtube itself with one of the mediums that we use to promote it. Totally taken it apart. Step by step from show. That health is made up paranoid eyesight law is. Also also things, but people like claiming it's the smoking gun as far as the cave, nineteen conspiracy and what they're trying to do when a vaccine finally comes out, you'll be Jacob chips all the usual stuff like that big farmer up telling you. What is it you think about the human sake? Does this and I asked that for a very specific reason I've got is Fred George who spent fortunate videos about conspiracy theories is right now. Gangs this just how thing about eleven the truth behind what happened nine eleven? They twin towers the Pentagon. This is virtually memorize these videos, and then you put him at some sites from said the Smithsonian Institute or the American Institute of Engineers Telly debunks these wacko conspiracy claims and explains in terms of engineering and science. How yes these aircraft really? These buildings and and how it was the act of these aircraft, smashing into the buildings, which caused them to collapse and everything that followed from on and how they really were a bunch of mad terrorists, hijacking these aircraft that were involved in this and even bother watching the videos. They just stick with a conspiracy theory idea. It seems to be something. They like so much more and this plan. DENIC conspiracy video is the same of Spiel. What does that say that's right there? There's various types that people who follow conspiracy theories tend to have I mean and the conspiracy theorists can. Is ECLECTIC, like one conspiracy theory to the next, even when they might be contradictory for instance that at a recent rally in Melbourne there a couple of speakers took him conspiracy of nineteen and one was saying nine painting is being used to put little chips in your body, and then the next week was saying that Dante not exist which slide problem when you're trying to convince an audience that he has done things there, so doesn't. Is it a conspiracy? What suicide? Cy that. Well! That's the thing that as soon as he tried to buck and conspiracy. You'll part of the conspiracy Zach. MOMS, that is really what if the catch twenty two, but there's a whole range of things there's been various studies done quite recently actually. Colleges from various people have looked at conspiracies and trying to find out what are the common links between them that people that are here. Why did I do it? Then the while he's probably more interesting than the actual watching many cases because what just keeps changing. The mindset certainly believe in conspiracies, just one of the intoxicating things about these conspiracy theorists, and why preferred to believe something that's telling made up rather than the science is simply that makes them feel superior Mexican feel. They know something that the rest of the pavilions out there in the real world. They have extra level of knowledge that way. That's what. Special Knowledge which is secret knowledge. We keep telling everybody. Trying to figure out how it was a sacred, yes, there is a certain superiority about themselves versus the shape or the shape that just being led around by the night as whereas I really no and the reason I really know is because I only listened to one source of information, no one style of source of information. It's always the same as you say. They never actually go outside and look alternative explanations, especially explanations by experts. They just go into the into the one little the room and I just keep hearing. The same thing so reinforced their views. You can send them whole tidy. Information and bank typical, not consider federal. Asset Frustrating Gorge. Myself Too I'm exactly the like that's Tim Mendham from. The skeptics. And, that's the show now. space-time is broadcast on science own radio by the national. Science Foundation in Washington DC and through both IHEART radio and on Tunin. Radio, or you can subscribe and Download Space Time as a free podcast through apple. STITCHER BITES DOT COM. PUCCA CAST soundcloud spotify YouTube audio boom pud beam, android, cashbox from Space Time with Stewart, Gary, dot com or from your favorite download podcasts provider. You can help support the show and the work we do by visiting the space, time online shop, and grabbing yourself a few goodies, or by becoming a space time Patriot, which gives you access to commercial free double versions of the show as well as burners already, I content and other rewards just go to patriarch page through Space Time with Stewart Gary Dot Com for all the data hours. If you want more space, time our blog where you'll find all the stuff we couldn't fit in the show as well as loads of images, news, stories, videos, and things on the web I find interesting or amusing. Just go to space time with Stewart. Gary DOT TAMLA DOT COM. That's all one word, and in lower case, and that's Tamba without the it can also follow us through at Stewart Gary on twitter at space, time with Stewart Gary on instagram through Space Time Youtube Channel on facebook. 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Jacob Morgan: Recognizing The Future Leader

Leadership and Loyalty

1:03:27 hr | 9 months ago

Jacob Morgan: Recognizing The Future Leader

"Hi, My name is Jacob I'm a four time bestselling author speaker and futurist and I helped create or Where we all genuinely want to show up to work each day and help develop leaders that we all want to work with and for in on today's show, we're GONNA be talking about the notable nine which already formed mindsets and five skills the you as a leader need to master, and this is according to one hundred and forty of the world's top CEO's and a survey of nearly fourteen thousand employees. So if you want to become a future ready leader than make sure to stay tuned. Congratulations you're tuned into Dov, barons leadership and loyalty show the number one podcast for fortune five, hundred executives, and those who are dedicated to creating a quantum leap in leadership. Your host Dove Barron. He's an executive mentor to leaders like you a contributing writer for Entrepreneur magazine, CEO World, and he's been featured on CNN fox CBS and many other notable sites. Dov Baron is an international business speaker who is named by INC magazine as one of the top one hundred leadership speakers to hire now over to Dov Barron. Welcome. Dear friends, fans, and fellow Aficionados Vince you balance. Thank you for joining us on this episode of loyalty tips or exactly executives. Let me ask you what you need to do to up level. You'll leadership. As a leader truly ready for the future. That's the question you see back in two thousand and ten if I were to ask you if you're already twenty twenty. I'm guessing time you probably would've said, yes, and then twenty twenty and you found out that whether you already on up and let's face it. People would. So let me ask you are you really prepared for the shifts in the workforce the trends that arriving will leading to twenty thirty stay tuned because that's exactly what we're going to examine on today's show I'm your host Da Baron I. Am the Dragon Center here to assist you tapping into the one thing in your business transforms everything by putting meaning into action find out more about me. You can simply go to Dav Barron Dot COM D. O. V. BE A R. O. N. DOT COM, this episode of leadership, and what else he is brought to you by. Our other podcasts, which is curiosity bites. Curiosity Bites is the answer to the question. How can we bring people together who completely disagree? This is exactly what your mind and your soul urban craving is your chance to sit in on some real and oftentimes intense compensations with some of the world's most interesting people including astronauts, Niro, scientists, philosophers, holy people, quantum physicists, skeptics on rose multi-award-winning Grammy Entertainers, and some folks you might expect to be a holes and find truly fascinating simply go to Dav Baron dot com finally, you can sink your teeth into an episode of curiosity bites. As always you can find us on Apple podcasts spotify iheartradio wherever you tune into pod guests and if you're a regular listener big, thank you for making us the number one podcast globally four to five hundred listeners. And we on it and grateful to be side by INC. DOT COM is the number one podcast to make you about Alita. All right. Let's strip it down and dive right in. Look no one has any real way of predicting the future. But. If you're willing to pay attention, there are some very clear signposts. The question is, will you pay attention over? Will you ignore them as a leader? You truly ready for the future we'll stay tuned because that's exactly where we're going with my guest today. My guest on this episode is Jacob Morgan. He is the author of the book. The future leader Jacob Morgan is a four-time bestselling author Speaker futurist explores leadership employee experience end. Of course, if you just work, he is the founder of future of Work University, DOT COM and online education training. And with future if which is facebook group that you can be part of its global community of business leaders, office end futures to explore what our future will look like if certain technologies ideas approaches to and trends actually happened ladies and gentlemen. please. Likewise. Good to be here. So where we always like to start the show is in this world where everybody's telling everybody they're an influence and they've got impact. And I'm talking to influence and people who have impact drew. Alitas, I always like to know who somebody who's had influence on. You had a massive impact on you somebody who shifted your direction of leadership that we might not necessarily think of all, not necessarily imagine or. Maybe, not even somebody we know. Probably a two people come to mind my dad and my wife. So my dad when I was younger would always tell me delete or not a follower and my wife because she's always constantly pushing you to try new things to kind of go beyond my comfort zone in to expand and learn and grow. So I'd say those do people. Tell me tell me. That's the surface nobody. Tell me how why. That's how it impact on you. I mean obviously you live with your life she has influence you lived with your dead I'm assuming through some influence but how and why did that impact you? Those those are easy statements. Yeah. Probably will starting with my dad. because. I was always terrible student school. So I I was a terrible student in high school in Middle, school in Community College. And I was very much kind of drifting in not knowing what I wanted to do and where I want to live at. I was just kind of aimlessly floating around and then I worked hard in college I went to the University of California Santa Cruz. It was at that point that I started realizing. This is the last chance that I have if I don't do well in college in get good grades. Nobody's GonNa want to hire me for that first job. So I kept thinking of my dad's mantra of Byu leader set your own path. At the time I lived in Los Angeles and I after I graduated college a to all my clothes in my car northern California, and so I took jobs if it wasn't qualified for I moved into places that I have never that had never been to, and I did all of that because I constantly had that mentality of ship, your own path B B leader, not a follower. Don't do other people tell you to do and and really carve out the direction that you want your life to go down and I very very much remembered that as I was growing up and as as I was building my own business. Because he's interesting because you said you, you realize college was your last chance to do well and get a job but you know really a big fan of jobs. No no I mean. I was Leo I. I had my. When I graduated college I, I wanted to get a job. He thought that my career path would be that I would graduate college I would go work for a button an amazing company I would go back and get my Mba. I would eventually progressively climb up the corporate ladder in one day become like a chief marketing officer of a big name brand like Ibm coca-cola. And that did not happen at all. In fact, first job out of college I was working for a technology company in Southern California in one hundred and keep in mind I have a dual. Ba. So major and economics psychology and I have an honor graduated with honors. So I was expecting that my first job there's going to be some amazing stuff going on there they. Look at my resume, they'd say Oh my God, you're so lucky to have you. So I interviewed for this company and they told me, I'll be doing all these wonderful things traveling the country meeting with entrepreneurs doing all this really cool and impactful stuff I, started final take the job. And I had a three hour daily commute also keep in mind. So three hours a day fifteen hours a week in traffic in downtown L. A.. Couple the first few months of my job I was doing data entry and cold calling powerpoint presentations nothing about what the company promises of. The excitement builds exactly and the pivotal moment from you is one one of the top executives Kentucky was beautiful Corner Office and he says Jacob and got a really important project for you and I got excited I thought okay. This is I paid my dues here at comes something great as our own over to this executive and I say, yeah what is it? Do? You know what are we gonNA? Do me as lead for meeting any judo go down to starbucks giving me a cup of coffee. Here's ten bucks in by the way you can get yourself a lot as well in that was a one of the most pivotal moments in my career in my life because at that point i. Kind of felt like I got unplugged from the Matrix like my my brain just disconnected from this idea of wanting to have a full time job in literally spent the next couple of months wild work. So I would get my work done I would have a couple of hours every day of. Downtime. And you know during downtime what do people do at work they? They go on social media that you know they do whatever I was looking at how do you make money online without having to have a a a a bus so I was learning about affiliate marketing learning about search engine optimization I was learning about all this crazy stuff to try to figure out how can I make money on my own Last fulltime jobs ever had working for anybody else and it was thanks to that Cup of coffee others who knows where it'd be now I still probably be in a corporate America Bang, my head against the wall. But it's interesting because you were. The Advice Your Dad was Linda not follow. And in many ways, you stepped into being a follower and it took a cup of coffee for you to be a leader. Of Your own life. That was the problem I very much was a follower. I subscribed to the traditional idea of if you want to be successful in life, you have to get good grades. You have to get a good job and you have to climb the corporate ladder and. That was exactly what I did. Think. That's great. If that's your path, any really wanted to be a bath, but it's not the only person. I. Think. That's the lesson for all of us is that we we tend to think it's the only path. Know there are many pets. As. Just one. Actually on your wife's your wife was trying new things. How's that? will not necessarily well, my mom always said trying new things trying new foods leaving you places do different things that you haven't done. My wife mainly made me a better everything that I do because she's always pushing me. She's always my support mechanism. If things aren't going my way, she's always the first one to lift me up. I have wins. She's always the first one to celebrate them as she is very egging. That's very, very important especially when you work for yourself to have somebody there who can help lick you up who can also celebrate with you and she does a fantastic job of that always pushing me encouraging me trying to get me to go in the right direction. So she think is probably the best spouse business partner that I could ask or she also works for herself. So we're both were in different niches. So she focused on customer experience I focused more leadership future work, but we share a Home Office we share this studio she was up here earlier. We. Sit side by side we have a podcast together. We spend a lot of time together probably more than most people would become from. I I. Really appreciate you sharing that with his Jacob because you know I am a my business partner is also my bride. and has in my business for many many years and oftentimes I will hear that. Well, how can you be business? Know I couldn't think of a business partner but it but on the same. Sort of taking that little bit further is what you said that which is. That a great business partner just like a great spouse is both lifting you up and kicking your ass you know. So and and I think that people think it's got you know like your wife will drive you mad. You know I, kicking your ass the whole time. But. Will be blowing smoke up your ass telling you wonderful. You are when you really need to be guided and directed and push a little more. On a great partner in business and in life as gotta be both of those things. As you said, my wife is the first one that Chimi on with with a win, and she's also the first one to remind me of a hey, is this how you really want to be in the world and you know you really so I really appreciate you sharing that with people because I think that oftentimes a such a disconnect for people with private life in particular leaders, they hold private life a separate from their business, and it's not even if you don't work with your partner like we do. It's not because if you're if you're. Wherever you go there. You are the say you're going to take you with you and you get into bang into yourself and you'll shit it's gonNA show it where. I mean especially now we were everybody's being through these virtual causing a lot of people are doing I mean you're doing them from your living room, your bedroom, your closet, your kitchen. We're letting people into our lives very much. I can imagine that there was some discomfort in a lot of people are uncomfortable with that when this first started. But now it's very common to have a call with a bunch of executives in your kid is throwing a bouncy ball at your head where people see your messy closet or whatever it is. So it's I think it's it's good for us to be a little bit more authentic vulnerable with each other, and my wife has a saying she always tells me show your feet are so similar to that Buddhist saying wherever you go there you are we exactly but it's it's also very interesting thing because. The pandemic, not physically present with people. But in many ways we become more. Intimate. With people. As you said, you know instead of showing up as the guy with a suit is beautiful beautiful on. You know you might still have a beautiful suit beautiful tie on as you resume call, but then the kids are screaming background that that level of intimacy I think is part of. What I've been talking about as the future of work because. We know the stats of showing that as we moving forward does a very large portion of people who will never return to work in an office fulltime again, not because they get fired, but because they never want to they, they realize, Oh, I, don't have to commute three hours a day to la I can actually do all this from home. WHY WOULD I go in? I could go on once a week on a month but they don't really need to go in and I think that that's an interesting piece of the we've become physically distant and it's an opportunity for us to become a mostly closer and as you said more authentic more real. I WANNA get into the details of the future war can why you were you went to end the future Lita it in a minute but. In the trends of what you've been researching around what are you seeing around that remote? Will the end where we're going forward? I still believe that the majority of people will continue to have regular full-time jobs working from an office I at least from what I've seen promote a business leaders I've interviewed they. There are certain organizations like like twitter for example, were saying you're in some of these different types of roles you could work remotely forever. You're going to take a pay cut you know stuff like that. So some organizations doing that. From me bigger ships isn't that we're going to have more people working remotely time. Instead, we're going to have more flexible work and I think there's a difference remotely fulltime means that you I mean you can literally live anywhere in the world you never need to show up to an office I don't think that's going to be the case we're still the vast majority of people in the world. However, would I do think we're going to see much more of his organizations saying. You don't have to be here every day You don't have to be here on a set schedule. You can have as much ability as you want. You works when when you want from wherever you want and there's going to be some guidelines and verandas around that. But I think we're GONNA shift much more towards a flexible work arrangements instead of a purely virtual arrangement because we need to remember still something to be said for building trust psychological safety, you're still something to be separate building. Relationships for leader like a lot of stuff is still I think very, very crucial Oregon person and so I, don't see that disappearing but I do see organizations being more flexible and that's by large. All the business leaders are telling me in fact, I haven't interviewed a single business leader or senior yet who said that their plan is to not return to the office and they have a full-time remote organization even startups here in the bay area where I live they are excited to get people. Into the office to get people back to work is this going to be true for everybody of course not but they still think the vast majority of people around the world we'll be back now. That's interesting and it's particularly interesting. In the context of where I wanted to go next which is. As you know I also work with leaders with organizations and. What's been clear to me is that what a CEO thinks is happening in a company. Or even an industry is often very different than that of the employees him for your new book. The future leader you interviewed one hundred and forty CEO's. But you also surveyed I, believe, was it one hundred, a fourteen thousand employees right? Fourteen thousand fourteen thousand employees. So this is a different. Two very different perspectives. How did those two perspectives lineup because it would be interesting I know that you did that before the pandemic but it would also be interesting to see that around remote work and how they see that to all don't work and don't give me more work. This hard enough as it was to do sky-high. Wish you if. If the book didn't come out on a date and let's say the book was coming out later this year I think it would be very very interesting to to to do something about that too. And who knows maybe I will do if I get very ambitious to reach back out to the CEO's and do another survey or something. But tear earlier point. Yeah. There is a huge disconnect. You always make this joke right The executives are in the ivory tower they're disconnected from the company. We kinda played off his tongue in cheek. We make fun of it in movies we make fun of it cartoons, but there is not oftentimes a lot of data which actually supports it. I did is tried to go out and collect data to support it, and it looked at a couple of different things I lifted. Trends that are shaping future leaders. The greatest challenges, the future leaders need to overcome the most crucial mindsets. The future leaders need to have the most crucial skill sets that future leaders need to have an just broadly if organizations have programs in plans in place to address leadership over the coming years. And so I. Guess we can. broadly. Speaking across the board what a lot of these senior executives and even mid level managers said is we're ready for these trends. We are ready for these challenges doing a good job of practicing these mindsets doing a good job of practicing the skills in. Yes. We have plans in place to address leadership in the future. And then these fourteen thousand employees Sincan, and again, this is very broadly speaking fourteen thousand employees. Work. For these mid and senior executives, same questions, it would say are mid senior level leaders are not ready for these trends are mid senior level leaders are not ready for these challenges are mid and senior leaders are doing a terrible job of practicing these mindsets skills and no. Our organization is not ready and is not thinking about leadership over the next few years. So it is almost as one eighty as you can get it to be numerous. Of the leaders and perception of the people who work for these leaders is on polar opposites. The interesting thing is that this gap also exists not just between leaders and non leaders, but also between mid level and senior level leaders. So the more senior you becoming a company, the more disconnected you become in this disconnection exists between leaders themselves mid senior, and also the gap exists between non leaders and leaders. So from a psychological point of view I assume have my own theory on why that is. What did you find out about why that is? Well. That's the tough part is to find out why exactly that's the case and there could be numerous reasons for it There could be a because of a very strict hierarchy and bureaucracy could because of a lack of communication across the board, it could be because you know maybe leaders are interested in self-preservation and they're scared and they're just kind of hoarding everything themselves not sharing things with other people. There could be numerous reasons there could be just in general disconnect just a lack of awareness lack of perception, a lack of just understanding between leaders in non leaders. Could be a lot of different reasons for why this is happening. It's kind of hard to pinpoint broadly speaking why this is the case good I think. The important thing is that this is the case leaders need to be aware of it and do whatever they can to make sure that that gap gets closed but you just made the point magic, which is it is the case. But. What is doesn't mean anybody's doing anything about it. So, let you know the the leader who is watching listening to us. Says Oh. Wow. Okay. That's fascinating. And then goes back to Monday. You know it's fascinating. So what? You know it. It's that point of saying. Because the data's fabulousness interesting. ooh gives us things to talk about, but it's the action taken with that data that masses most. So you know how if you're walking into an organization and you're saying there is this huge disconnect between. Even Middle Management and upper management all between the workforce and and the other two groups and negative. Oh well, that's interesting. What how how you guiding them around you get you gotTa Take Action Dude. I. Yeah there. I think there are a lot of things that organizations can start to try to close that gap. The first thing that a lot of you need to realize is that leadership is no longer about them leadership is not about you. So the cover. Let me see if I have. So people can see the cover of the book is a lighthouse. In that's the analogy that I use in the book is I say, as a leader, your job is to be lighthouse. Of course, you should build yourself up learn these new skills, learn these new mindsets. But a lighthouse without in the water is useless. So, why build yourself up to know all these things to become this great leader if you have nobody to lead. And so leaders need to remember that part of their job is to guide others to help other people more successful. WanNa start to close this gap in your company I. think There are a couple of things you can start to do. Number one is you need to have more conversations with your employees. Let. Them know about the things that you're doing higher implementing these different things. Lead, by example. So let's pick a random mindset or skill from the book emotional intelligence. Don't just talk about emotional intelligence practice practice in that he practiced self-awareness show the people who work for you that you have the mindset of the explorer meaning. You practice curiosity that you have a growth mindset, suspend a lot more time doing and less time just talking about these things. And I think being able to have these conversations with employees more frequently more openly, and transparently is a great way to start to close that gap into actually teach these things inside of your company teach other people had a practice emotional intelligence. Teach other people how to be tech savvy digitally fluent, and that I think is very much going to close that gap. It it's interesting because In our work in our research in talking about this gap. And I saying psychologically why I believe is that Is. Im- what you've just addressed is the. You know I will often say to a leader. What's the number one? Let's say gotten executive team in front of me and I'll go around and they'll say suppose who's the number one personal is to you. They'll tell me and I'll say what's the number one job and they'll tell me and I'll say no. And I go. What do you mean? No that I know what the job isn't that go to them what is the number one job go? Isn't it? What? No no more jump to them is to keep you happy because you right the paycheck you'll in charge of whether they have a job next week next month next year. And so the problem with that is you immediately have a bias in the information you're receiving you're never going to get that truth. And so until we can really open the lines of communication through as you said through emotional intelligence and finding ways to communicate in a really great way with each other, we're going to have Iraqi of power that's going to block us from getting to the real trick that we need. We actually need to hear to survive and oftentimes due to a lack of self awareness due to a lack of. Emotional intelligence elite. It doesn't even know they're doing it. No. You aware. You can do some by, but if you don't even know, well, it's definitely a problem. Yeah. So we're GONNA take a little break. and. We're GONNA come back in a moment with. Sorry. We're GONNA come back in a moment with Jake Morgan and we're going to talk a little bit more about the future of work in the future Alita. And WanNa. Remind you that this. Episode of loyalty is brought to you by the Dragon's lair. Have you discovered your next evolution imagine being in a virtual classroom where I personally walk you through live trainings where I reveal the techniques strategies that previously only offered seals C. suite executives, high level entrepreneurs, athletes, and entertainers, and then be able to to access that training and the and the exclusive what would go on with on demand? That's what many of our listeners discovering. Now, it's your opportunity to go over to triple W. Dot Patriot fan that's P. A. T. R. E. O. N. dot com forward slash baron in just two minutes you can join us in fact, you'll even get access to past episodes on subjects like uncovering the genius blindspot ethical persuasion becoming a meaning driven leader resilient leadership during the time of chaos and so much more simply go patriotdepot dot com forward slash dog Barron and secure your seat right now. Welcome back I'm here talking to the also of the future leader. I and we we were talking about some of the challenges are and Jacob Morgan, who is the author was Sharon with us some of the gaps in the discrepancies between not only employees and manages but even between mid level manages who and senior executives or senior leaders so. I know that the book was focused on two main questions. and I want to start with the first one, which is willfully does of twenty thirty different than the leaders of today. What did you? What did you find out Jacob? What sort of was glaring? So the first is of the general consensus is, yes. The leader twenty thirty will be significantly different than leader today. and then the meat of the book focuses on how leader will be different by looking at the mindsets and skills. The crazy thing is, as you mentioned, this came up before pandemic before all this stuff with George Floyd black lives before all this stuff happened right? and. So the really fascinating thing has been to see how much the in line for practicing these skills in mindsets his shrunk in other words. The future leader is kind of the present leader. Now, because things about in the book were they were aimed to be looked at the future. But now with what's happening in the world, they need to be implemented immediately in the present, and we're starting to see a lot of organizations do that there's been a lot of demand for learning these things. Learning. These things now So that's been probably one of the most interesting thing to see. So why is leadership going to be different while because you look at the new world that we're all a part of? Looking at things that are happening with covert or black lives matter. Even broadly speaking globalization in technology there's a big shift towards purpose in meaning and transparency just the the world is fundamentally different. In the rationale from these business leaders was that if our organizations are going to look different as a result of these trends than it stands to reason that we're gonNA need leaders who are different to guide different organizations and and that's That's very much true I? mean. If you think about how most people get put into leadership positions or have been in leadership positions throughout history, you didn't need me. A good leader, you could play office politics. You could bring in a lot of big deals to the company. You can have a friend in a more senior position. You can stay at the Company for ten twenty years in you would get put into a leadership position regardless of if you actually have the capability to lead in the consensus from these business leaders was that that is no longer going to work. Unless you fundamentally believe in practice some the skills in mindsets. In the book, you are not going to be able to kind of sneak your way into these leadership positions. In in that I, think is actually a very good thing. One of the most shocking things that I found from the book is that a lot of people get put into leadership positions with the leadership training, right? So on average most people become a leader and by the way, a leader specifically meeting responsible for other people. Yes. Most people get put into a leadership position at some point there I one. Mead late Twenties early thirties for the first time leaders. Yes. Most people don't actually go through a leadership training or development program until they are at some point in their forties. Maybe late thirties if you're lucky, there is a gap of around ten to fifteen years from when you become a leader to win, you're actually taught how to be a leader which to me is insane. That's like taking a I don't know Roger Federer or Serena Williams or whether your favorite is waiting for them to reach their prime and then saying, Hey, now we're going to work on your forehand. Now, we're going to work on your jump shot. Why wouldn't you want every single employee in your company to practice these mindsets and skills to have emotional intelligence to think like a futurist to have a growth mind like why wouldn't you want everybody to do these things? Not just people in leadership positions I mean it's it's insane to me. I couldn't agree more. I is one of the reasons that I am very keen on saying that we gotTA train leadership at the very front line as well as they high office and. Because as you said By the TIME SOMEBODY GETS INTO A. Leadership Training as you said, that ten fifteen years on the problem with that is. They probably learned leadership from somebody else who didn't have training, and so they've actually got a bunch of bad habits that now needs to be broken before they can even implement. Learning in. Training and that's pretty sat. Customer a heck of a lot more cussing the company a heck of a lot more. Yeah and not just in terms of dollars and cents but also in terms of leading people ineffectively for that period of five to ten years, what it might do to morale to engagement to turn over all those other things productivity innovation, customer experience as so I think the costs for organizations is actually quite significant. Absolutely. Now in the book, go into full mindsets and five skills. Yes. Could. You sort of give us a gloss over each one of those. We can maybe come back on one or two of each of them. Yes. Yes. So therefore mindsets in the four my gave him kind of fun Quirky name so that people could remember them. Mindset of the explorer, the mindset of the of the servant, the mindset of the chef, and we have the last land set which is out of the explore. So the mindset in. My. Little Diagram here. So I don't forget. The mindset of the global citizen is about how do you balance? Well balanced but surround yourself by people who are not like you. Like you behave like you act like you excetera and also how do you have a big picture perspective not just thinking in seeing what's right in front of you but kind of you know you see a chessboard behind me. A chess analogy it's looking at sixty four squares. Instead of just one part of the chessboard. I take chest lessons grandmaster in whenever we're doing chest puzzles. He says don't just look at where the action is look at the entire chessboard. It's part of being a global citizen looking at the entire chessboard in being okay. surrounded by people who are not like. The mindset of the chef is about balancing to ingredients inside your company, which are our humanity in technology. So how do you make sure the organization states human but at the same time use as much technology as you can to be productive to be efficient to be able to keep up with the overall pace of change right? You have the mindset of the Servant End The servant is it's not just about Servant Leadership Servant leadership is a part of the puzzle but the mindset of the servant means that you have humility invulnerability and also learned that you actually serve four groups you serve your customers. You serve your leaders if you have them. You. Serve your team but a lot of people forget this. You also need to serve yourself. What I mean when I say serve yourself is practicing self care. Never been on a plane, not many of us have these days, but they always say put your own oxygen mask on first for you help others because if you're incapacitated, you can't help others. So a leader you show up to work each day and you're stressed out burned-out unhappy whatever it is exhausted. How can you be there leaving other people you can You need to do whatever you need to do as a leader to make sure that when you show up each day whether it's in person or virtually you take care of yourself spiritually emotionally physically mentally whatever you gotTa do Exercise Meditate Journal but it's your responsibility to make sure that you take care of yourself so that you can take care of other people as well. So that's that's the mindset of the of the servant. In the last one is the mindset of the explorer. The mindset of the explore is about. Having sense of curiosity. Having a growth mindset in other words when you see obstacle is you know that they are things to conquer. They're not things that are there to permanently keep you from achieving your goals. So that you you have to believe that you can become better you can become more talented you can excel, you can grow. Fixed minds believe the opposite. Partisan ever going to be I'm. You know. If if you're speaker if you're a writer, I'm never going to be a better speaker. I can't write any better. I'm never going to grow a Goni farther and my career that's a fixed mindset. Also, is about agility and and being nimble too. So those are the mindsets mindset. Specifically are how you as a leader need to think. So kind of like you turn on your your your phone, your computer, whatever it is in the morning, it's got this like boot up program does the startup? Yes. Started for you as a leader is about these mindsets this is how you need to start off each day. So. Obviously. I'm. Applauding and very much in favor of what you're saying there a mindsets. However. I WANNA address. One thing in that Jacob Nat is this. People with fixed mindset need to. Not. Have a fixed mindset needs to open up their thinking they need to you know. Be More open to learning etc etc.. But the challenges their mindset. So. When let's say one of our? Viewers listeners is CEO has a great person. On a particular department, but they can see this person isn't going any further because they have a fixed mindset. Yeah. They don't they're not looking to grow and they have kind of this. This is. Do it well, and I, get the numbers and get. All those things and I'm effective at what I do what do you? What do you say to that leader? So they're nephew things There are a lot of people like this. Not just leaders people in general. have an entirely of. The way. And there's nothing you can do to change me and I have self awareness because I know I'm a jerk. Yeah. Well. You don't even need to be a jerk could. I duNNo. You people always tell you should eat healthy but you never do people tell you to stop smoking but you never do. That you should be nicer. You never are. On this is I am. So. Part of my my job, my role specifically is I. Don't view my role as somebody who has to convince anybody to do anything. I show the research, I show the stories I, show the examples, and hopefully people will change organizations will change leaders will become better but if You can't change somebody who does not want to change. I, have this with friends with family members as well. Some people are very stubborn and in the refused to change. In The. You know the unfortunate thing is there is that people will change when usually some catastrophe happens or something bad happens. You don't want to you. You don't want to wait for something bad to happen. You don't want to wait for your company to start sinking. You don't WanNa wait for people to start leading. You don't WanNa, wait to have physical problems before you realize that you need to change. We saw this firsthand with Kobe. How many organizations for example talked about the importance of putting people first the importance of having flexible work and they've been trying for ten twenty thirty years to make these things reality and they never could cova comes around and guess what everybody's trying to do, what they were supposed to do over the last twenty years in three months in a lot of companies struggled and you saw companies who didn't. Embrace change earlier they have to lay off employees they have to furlough people people are being let go the company's productivity slowing down. They didn't have the tools in place to get employees to work effectively. Meanwhile, you see other organizations no leaders out there who've been working like this for years. and Kobe came about and they were like, we're good. We we have the tools we've already trained our employees and our leaders had elite lead remotely. They already have these skills these mindset. So we have the tools in place we're going. In so that to me hang is is the most crucial lesson for for anyone in any leader. Is. You are selling yourself short. If you believe that you cannot change. You are selling yourself short your employees short in your organization short if you think you cannot become better if you think that you cannot improve not only that. Oh it. To those around you enter yourself to improve and what I talk about on the book is I the one percent today challenge in that is Sometimes, change can be overwhelming and a lot of people say I can't do all is it's good. It's can take hours a day A it's gotta rebuild my life. It's too much. I always tell them improve by one percent today. You can improve by one percent date in by the end of the year, he'll be thirty seven times better. So what are the one percent they look like? It means that as a leader maybe you spend fifteen twenty minutes a day listening to a podcast like this one. Maybe, you practice empathy where when a CO worker or appear comes into your office. You try to put yourself in their shoes and understand their perspective before you respond. Maybe, it means that you go out and grab copy or have a call with somebody on your team who usually wouldn't talk to. On a different team, they have a different cultural background they you have very opposing views you keep butting heads. Small things that you can do overtime will lead to a great impact. So as a leader is an individual for that matter. Tried, starting small in see what one small thing can do and really really small to see what you can do to improve. In once you start, you'll find the those around. You will notice change you will notice change your company, your employees, your your spouse, or significant other everybody will start to notice this change in around you and it will be positive but you don't want to wait for something bad to happen before you realize you need to change. I don't wait for you know for for the fire to be right in front of you before you realize oh God I got water. GotTa. We gotta run. That's not the right way to do it. I fully agree with you and unfortunately the psychology of human beings as we we we often won't change until Lara's catastrophe in front of us. And it's one of the things I've spoken about extensively on on interviews where I've been on his guest, which is. Cove. It has been tragic in the loss of life in many things. But the truth of the matter is that Cova just pushes into a future we resistant to now you know they the old saying is you can't send a ship on dime. Well, you know what they did many companies multinational went remote in twenty one days all they went under and they that and so they made it happen and and I think that as human beings we feel like we're ships and we kinda turn on a dime but the truth of the matter is if you'll, you'll mom your wife your child or yourself got diagnosed with a with a tragic disease. Shit changes pretty. Fast. Like you know what I guess I can give up the burgers or I. Guess I can give up the cigarettes, all the alcohol drug or whatever it is. I, guess I. Can. You know I always say to somebody vice it to you can you invest twenty grand today? People would say you know the average site probably not gonna go okay. Not if I can't to you said, can you invest twenty grand today because your mom needs it for an limited surgery? Would you come up which? Absolutely so what's the difference? Now? What's the difference is only that you put that much emergency on it and he's that level of commitment and emergency that makes things happen. That's what we all forget. An love that you're driving this home. Because as you said, the pandemic has taken your book which is aimed at twenty thirty S A. Trick. You is twenty twenty. Title of the book. Should Email Wiley about that and you know the interesting thing is that when it comes to change, it's not. It's not the actual change. The people are scared off limits oftentimes when people go through change very rarely. Do they go through the change in then Salem worse off People who stop smoking are glad they stopped smoking. Eating healthy can't believe the transformation gone through. To practice these skills, mindsets can't believe the results that they. Would people don't like it's not the change itself. It's the process of change raw sewage I heard a great quote it was Everybody likes getting everybody likes Disneyland, but nobody likes the drive down there. Right like you and I live in northern California. So Disneyland, itself is great but driving it hours to get down there is brutal nobody wants. Right I think of that same analogy with change. Nobody wants to get to Disneyland but once they're there everybody's happy. And that is the interesting thing that people need to remember. It's not the change that you're worried about. It's the process of change, and if you can rake down a breakdown that process and make small and incremental, then you really have nothing to fear. Absolutely I. Love that. So let's do a quick overview of the five skills because you did the full mindsets, another five skills that are going to be A. Really vital for future leader and before you even going to the the question I have for you in context of them is have they also jumped forward in time yes? Yes. Those off the mindset and skills of both have dramatically jumped as far as how crucial they are. So stills are. So mindsets are how you think skills are things that you actually need to know how to do this I'm skills, and again, this came from the hundred and forty CEO's I interviewed this stuff making up or step on it people. Many books and how much stuff is floating around there were it's like Oh. You know I saw this leader doing this or here's a great story about this company. Then it becomes a book and it's it's very it's based on blend leader one company. So this is kind of the the totality of one, hundred forty and for the world's top CEOS. So five skills are coach futuristic technology teenager. Translator in. Yoda. Yoda is everybody's favorite. One I'm sure you'll. You'll like to. Exactly. So let's up on the first one, which is the skill of the coach mosquito of the coach is pretty much what it sounds like. But Little twist. A lot of people think that the role of a coaches or the role of a leader as a coach is to help make other people more successful. That is a part of the picture, but I want to encourage people to add two words to the end of that. Make people more successful than you because helping make somebody else more successful as easy. You spend five minutes with them, ten minutes with them and their legal teensy bit more successful, and you could say, look what a great leader I am Joe Erica's a little bit more successful because of me. That's easy. But as a leader, if you can help make somebody else more successful than you, I mean think about how much effort time resources commitment dedication that's GonNa take from you to help make those around you more successful. So, it's a very crucial for US leader to add that then you to the end of that sentence. Crucial about the coach mentality is that? It's this belief that your job is a leader to make other leaders, and if you don't believe this at least, do it in the interests of self preservation because what's going to happen and what are you starting to see this now? I think the leaders job very high level and broadly speaking is broken down into two buckets. The first is you make decisions because you have access to more information era higher up on the food chain so to speak and you make decisions and the second job of a leader again. Is You get people to move in that direction move people a new people in the direction of that decision. Those are the two big big things leader does. Now, we're already starting to see influx of technology a an automation which is going to help augment augment a lot of the decision making aspects firm leaders. Leader, if all you do is tell people what to do in technology is going to help augment some of that decision making. Your value as a leader decreases dramatically. Yes. But if you're a great leader who also focuses on the human aspect of getting people to become more successful, now your value to the organization increases tenfold because Natta something that very few people can do. Yes. Okay. That's that's the coach. The next is the futurist. The futurists was actually ranked as the number one skill, a body CEO's for future leaders. The skill of the future is, means that again, going back to the the Chessboard Analogy Back? there. Is that you're not predicting the future, but you are good in terms of. Thinking in terms of scenarios and possibilities. So during a game of chess. There are a lot of different. They're more possibilities that can be played in a game of chess than there are atoms in the universe I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. Anybody could look it up. So it's a virtually infinite game in what a lot of great grandmasters do when they played a game of chess. You don't view the game as like, I'm going move my pawn. My opponent is going to move their pawn then I'm GonNa move my night I opponent will move their bishop that's very singular in it's very much a finite path but what? Top grandmasters do is they say, well, I can move my pond and after I moved my, my opponent can respond in several different ways they might move their bishops they might do their night they might try to break in the center and I need to have some sort of a response or a plan for each one of those things if they happen. That's what the skill of the future is means is that as a leader, you are good thinking in terms of those different scenarios possibilities instead of just picking one path and assuming that that's the path that's going to happen. Such a very crucial skill. Next, we have the skill of technology teenager in this is exactly what it sounds like. Whenever we had issues with technology who always turn to return to the kids. It's not because the kids are coders or because they're necessarily developers, they're tech savvy, they're digitally. Yeah I. Mean I have a four year old now? She she you can give her my my iphone Jeez turning things on she can. She can find things on there I mean she's becoming very very. Adept at technology such an. So, as a leader means that you need to have that tech savvy, they digital fluid that. We comfort level of just playing, tinkering, experimenting with technology the same way that kids do. Next, we have the skill of the translator in the skill of the translator is about listening in communication. Now, I know two things that have been around for many many decades but also to things that are changing more now than they ever have before both in terms of the. Number of tools and channels we have to use to listen and to communicate, and also with the difficulty level of listening in communication I mean today. How hard is you know you're in a meeting everyone's got their their phone out in front of you. I mean imagine if we were doing this interview and I was like Yeah It's I'm sorry what I mean this is how a lot of people run their lives right you to go to dinner with your phone. It's it's a very, very hard for people to listen and to communicate, and there's it's no wonder that they say there's no greater sign of love and respect that you can show somebody than by truly listening to them. Listening in hearing are not the same thing which is interesting I. WanNa make. Hearing is the unconscious act loading sound interior you're listening is about putting away distractions it's looking somebody in the I. It's looking paying attention to your body language making the conversation fuel collaborative laying other personal you're truly there. And as a leader, this is especially crucial because imagine and I've seen this firsthand experiences first hand. When you go to leader for something let's say you want help. You're struggling with something you want guidance imagined for a minute. You go to lead you say look I really need your help with this and your guidance what what should I do? And you can tell that you're leader is not truly listening to you. I'm how does that? Make you feel while you know maybe they're on their phone while they're trying to interact with you maybe you can tell that their mind is drifting off somewhere. They're not really giving you all of themselves to answer your question isn't employees working for that leader e crushes you. Is Your morale your spirit, your engagement level, and you're not gonNA want to go back to that leader for anything ever again not and so you really What kills me is that this is not a hard thing for us to do. When you are engaging with your employees, pretend like you were talking with your spouse pretend like you're talking with the best friend would you or your parents? That to your parents, would you do that to somebody that you truly care about in love or admire respect probably not, and so you need to treat your employees the same way. In the last skill, the skill of Yoda, which is about emotional intelligence specifically to components, empathy and self awareness. Empathy is about putting yourself into somebody else's shoes understanding their perspective and self awareness is understanding. Who you are. Your strengths, your weaknesses, but also understanding how other people around you perceive you. So those are the five skills of the future leader. For antagonistic. We've covered a lot in the show And one of the questions I really want to ask you. As we started even comes the end is. All that research the one, hundred forty. CEO's fourteen thousand employees you. Prior to Kobe were traveling around the world and and speaking different organizations. Good old days. Yeah. The good old days we all remember those Is there a company? Who are really. Integrating what you've laid out in the book really well you go. Wow I mean this this this company personifies what it is I've been talking about. I think there are people. Out there that have been doing a pretty good job of this. So I always think of of Cisco's, one of those organizations really. One of the companies that I've talked about for many years they they were embracing a lot of these concepts and components well before covid i. in fact, the first time I interviewed Francine Kit Sudas, their chief people officer was. I don't know four or five years ago in even an she was telling me about how they are putting their people first, how getting rid of annual engagement in performance reviews how they're connecting everybody with technology like all the different things that they're going that they're going through. So very much think of Cisco I. Think of a Microsoft I think they're doing a tremendous job. With, such as their leader, they've been doing some great things. We've been hearing a lot of stories of organizations like J. P., Morgan. Chase. Even, in small businesses, I mean there's a waffle shop. The four or five miles away from me called all these waffle shop. And I love telling this story because it's local and it's maybe more relatable to some non huge companies but the owners husband and wife team they were getting ready to retire before Cogan and they bought a beautiful piece of land in Petaluma four, hundred thousand dollars and they were getting ready to retire to build their dream house over there. then. couvert hit. In this type of organization where when you walk into one of their restaurants, you see pictures of the employees who work there lying, lung, the walls, and they have this. this culturing the belief that we would not be here a business if it weren't for our people. In a lot of we hear a lot about this mentality of lead by putting people first. But what does that actually mean? So what happened during Calvin they saw a lot of their employees were not able to make ends meet and they saw that You know what we're GonNa do we have to close the restaurant? The employees can't work here a lot of them can't afford to live. They sold their land were they were planning to retire and build their dream house. They put all that money back into the business to pay for their employees they gave up on their dream. So that they can help make other people's dreams come true by giving them the quality of life that they need to have survived because they knew that their employees have kids. They have families they would have never even gotten into that position if it weren't for them. For their employees and this small company, forty people in what's crazy is you hear stories about this, all these waffle shop forty people, and then you hear other stories of organizations who are letting go of ten thousand employees. Five thousand employees makes me wonder like are these organizations really doing everything that they can if there is a waffle shop with a husband and wife team who are willing to make sacrifices so that other people can survive and grow and thrive. Are you really telling me that you're multibillion dollar company? Has To let go of thousands of employees are there Are, use a leader are your leaders not able to make sacrifices in other areas or personally so that you can take care of the of the other people around you. And it just really makes me wonder and this is. I think a lot of people are becoming very disenfranchised with the with corporate America would just corporations in general because the realizing the only job security that exists nowadays is the one that you can create for yourself I'm in as much as I. I R- some organizations out there like Microsoft like Cisco I think even linked in has been doing a good job facebook. Taylor Morrison which is a home building company. I, think he's been doing a great job. There are some fantastic organizations out there in amazing leaders. The problem is we don't have enough of them. I mean even today You know I woke up this morning there was somebody put a sign on my door and it said I you know I lost my job to Kobe. But I'm a trained pastry chef, and now I'm going to go off on my own and I'm going to open up my kitchen and I'm GonNa Start Making Pastries and here's a list of pastries that I can make for you and she put these signs on all doors in in the community that I live. In. It's the resiliency of people. I. Think is giving me a lot of a lot of hope to sleep. The people are taking things into their own hands in realizing that just in general nobody's going to look out for you but you. So you need to create the likeness security for yourself that you WANNA have. Yeah I mean I think that's a great place to finish because The need for. Leaders to do not only. Intellectually know that we need to be better humans as leaders, but we actually have to have greater levels of humanity leaders is. Vital and what I know is an I spoke a lot about this way back, which was the recession was the birth of two thousand, eight recession was the birth of entrepreneurship in a way never been before and cove will make that look like a blip. Down because people like I cannot trust a company I thought I could I count and that's that's what I wrote. My last book people stop trusting companies because of the recession they fifteen twenty years ago, company session game and they got thrown out with the trash, and now they reinvested in the company's Insert on my God is the same again and it's going to be a massive both of entrepreneurship, which is going to be great. But the the the companies that will survive will have to be better at being huma. This has been a fabulous conversation really want to thank you for all that you said I would love to tell. A listen view is when he could find out more about you and Ali wonderful resources, and of course, about the book. So I am a very easy to find if people WANNA get in touch with me baking go to the future or dot com that's that's my personal website. For people who WanNa get a pdf for example of all these skills and mindsets and quotes from the CEO's. Called the leadership. Digest. Dot Com that's the leadership digest DOT COM. And my email if anybody wants it is Jacob at the future organization DOT COM. craziest me give me your email out. Yeah. WHY NOT INTERACTING WITH PEOPLE GETTING QUESTIONS? As I'm sure you know when you work for yourself and you're doing what you love and people ask you stuff I mean it's I I. Enjoy it so. I'm. Jacob, but it's been a pleasure on Sir. Thank you appreciate all your shad incredibly valuable and I really hope that utilize not will take what you've heard and put an action remember. That information. Without application is about the same as a hole in the donut because transformation comes from application. Remember you can hang out with other conscious leaders and you can chat about this episode earning past episodes going either to facebook are leaning groups just look for the leadership and loyalty podcast. You see doesn't matter how successful you are if your employees and your customers don't understand gives your company meaning. You're only looking at a fraction of your true capability. To find out a you can hire me doll Barron as a speaker or leadership strategist or an executive coach you or your organization go to Dove Baron Dot, com, do. V. B. A. R., O. N. DOT. com. Because unified meeting, as we like to call it finding a dragon fire, it's the single monolithic difference between mediocrity and greatness for all individuals and companies on. Thank you for showing the show with everyone you know. Till next time stay curious my friend stay curious about whether you have the mindsets and the skills to truly be a future leader because the future he's already here. I'm Sharon. I'm here to assist you into your dragon plath threes that next level of clarity focus puppets and prophet in Your Business Life and you'll leadership in fact, and I am out.

CEO executive Jacob partner Jacob Morgan Dove Barron California writer facebook Dragon Center INC magazine DOT COM University of California Santa CNN twenty twenty Dov Baron Da Baron Work University Alitas
Coral reefs prevent more than $1.8 billion a year in U.S. flood damage

Climate Connections

01:30 min | Last week

Coral reefs prevent more than $1.8 billion a year in U.S. flood damage

"I'm doctor any woods and this is climate connections. Coral reefs provide a home to so many different creatures that there's sometimes called rainforests of the sea and near the shore. They help absorb wave energy. So as extreme storms grow more common coral reefs help protect coastal communities from flooding and storm surge quarter res roy critical coastal prediction benefits. That's bar hummer garo of the university of marine sciences at the university of california santa cruz in a recent study ribeiro and other researchers put a dollar figure to that flood protection they found that coral reefs prevent more than one point eight billion dollars in flood damages annually to coastal communities in the us but he says development pollution and global warming are degrading many reefs in some areas reefs have vertically eroded by more than three feet in recent decades and if more reefs are damaged flood risks will grow. If we keep losing them we will have to find alternative measures of protection. So he says conserving. These fragile. ecosystems helps preserve a home for marine creatures. And it's a cost. Effective strategy for protecting property and people to climate connections is produced by the yale for environmental communication to hear more stories like this visit climate connections dot org.

university of marine sciences ribeiro santa cruz university of california us yale for environmental communi
Pinnipedology (SEALS & WALRUSES) with Luis A. Hckstdt, PhD

Ologies

1:17:27 hr | 2 months ago

Pinnipedology (SEALS & WALRUSES) with Luis A. Hckstdt, PhD

"Hey you know who has a squarespace website me so from websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics. Squarespace is the all in one platform to build a beautiful online presence. And run your business. that's what i'm doing. There's no hidden fees or price hikes. All websites are optimized for mobile look. Great it's so simple you can start with the designated template that and you can just use drag and drop tools to make your own ours. I like to call them drag and drop head to squarespace dot com slash allergies for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch us the offer code allergies to save ten percent off your first purchase. Oh hey it's the first three alarms that you turned off in your sleep. It's allie board allergies. Were doing it pin. Apology for conceals sea lions walrus dogs. Let's talk first though. Thank you to patrons at patriot. Dot com slash apologies for submitting questions. It costs just a buck a month to join that club. Come on over also thank you to anyone who has hit subscribe. Who told a friend. Texted tweeted left reviews. I read all your reviews like a gentle crepe and this week's fresh review is from someone named 'em fox you says all jesus a life. Changing lee good podcast. Did i get a snail tattoo after listening to the malakal episode. Yes as your internet dad. I approve also congrats to a hopeful scientists for heading back to school and get a phd. Helio could okay. Pin apology comes from the latin. For having fins for feet and it wasn't until maybe fifteen minutes ago that i knew that it wasn't related to pinna meaning ear even though ears play against role in triumphantly explaining the difference between a seal and sea line more on that later but this allah just studied marine biology for his bachelors. Got a master's in in chile and a phd in ocean studies from uc. Santa cruz and is now an assistant researcher. At the institute of marine sciences at the university of california santa cruz and and an adjunct professor at the university of north carolina wilmington. He studied marine mammals for years and years and his name comes up over one hundred published papers on seals and sea lions and. I have had him on my sonar for at least six months oh so excited doctrine and after his land seal aka dog went for a potty outside we met up we hopped on the horn. I asked him about everything from blubber to ocean currents psychedelic teeth. Receding ice whisker technology belly. Scooting poops octopus backing walrus tusks and other bony structures and arctic expeditions but ovens and more with world explorer sea mammal enthusiasts marine ecologist seal and sea lion physiologist and just dr my name is upstream and my pronounce are he him and ill i guess in some chilean good to know that's right l. Because you're now where are you right now. We're not wilmington north carolina. Which is not chilly. Leading to stay for the last sixteen years almost. Oh you have in. What are you doing in raynham. Visiting research sure saw got your mestre. Mestre be working here giving Got students pass and do the research with a couple of gladiators against the w. What do i always say asks. Smart people not smart questions. Are there seal in north carolina. not accepting it. I mean it looks like every now and then they get random stranded as i come. Come down from the from the arctic. But they don't live here okay. I wasn't sure actually this brings us to a great question. What is the seal. What is what is the pin pad so apparent is sup order of you if you know some some about how animals are putting together or is this a class. Mammalia all mama's basic got together and we that class Mammals and one of the main ones is carnivores s are related to bears dogs and cats. Bad that he's sort of like the aquatic branch of those guys got it. Seals are carnival. Worse data sudafed carnivores. So there together we. The grossest relative man will be barest but they are. They come from that branch of must so they wanted to cats and dogs and bears and offers and elders guys the otters. I'm totally like yeah of course but the bears that that's a really flipping mishit right now being bit. Share a common sister okay. An bears have cute tiny ears seals and sea lions walruses. Cute tiny little ears also nuggets. You lions those lines activity in science. And i and dust guys have ears external ears. I would call the so true seals though skies deng External ear like art year against see. But did you have. Of course everything internal so. Don't talk smack about. Can you list offer me. What are pinheads does. So there's three families within the pets immerse when you use the warriors which is a species. I am the walrus Get on our true seals and the their family bliss allies person got it. Elephant seals are included in that. The elephants are churchill's are seems so huge that there must this so giant. Okay so families of pinna peds include the walrus. There's just one species of walrus the walrus then. There are some fake ass disconnect their fake. They're just not true. See also called. Oh toray and these are seals with ears and sea lions and i the oath and then there are the true seals which are earless sort of your low bliss and there are thirty. Three species of pinna peds total. All of which you wanna stare lovingly at. And what's their range. Where do inependence live. When did they kind of like wattle off of land and start bobbing around in water. Yeah so they're they're pretty much everywhere. The tank to hang out more colder environments you take the highs adversity of seals in the arctic indian tardy but their seals while indicators unites versus leaving most of them actually duly instead of colder environments colder waters. So list married guys on the heels of recolonize war the around the columbia or something that defined years ago. There was about the size of a theater fuji. La indesit i of feel and then i don't because of northern california oregon. That's what we see. I positive about repeated so the ancestors of modern seals and sea lions slipped off the terrain of earth and back into the water off the coast of the pacific northwest. They think that makes me feel so like homesick invalidated. Because i'm from the bay area where the waters kyoto you go to the beach in the bay area and you go through the windbreaker and you're like it's nice. Let's get back into car. So those pacific is so cold and people obviously like. Don't think about that when they think about california. And so why do you think or why do scientists think that they evolved to dig. Colder waters is related to the fact that called waters are more productive. Biologically what is more productive biologically. So because they're more productive there's more food and he's signing bells their big mouths bill to have high metabolic rates because they're mammals right so they have to keep a constant temperature so they eat a lot of food so disappointed but they need a lot of food and environments where you held a sweaty deletion tend to be the wire so i waiting area some current or colder waters in the arctic. argh antarctic. so he says that the humboldt current and south american currents bring an arctic water to the coast of chile and peru bringing pretty sweet ecosystem for seals. How cold are the waters of chile. And at what point did you set your sights on seals or walruses or elephant seals or sea. Lions are Deals and say hot dang. Those things are so Let me think about this first of all. Julie set a mirror image of california that iraq indicator cheetahs Houston we have their semen our water temperature or that kind of environment etc. So that of explains why. There's so many bits in chile while not many species of this a lot of individuals however now More convoluted that because i was actually born and racing venezuela. None chiller do Parents so and every time ever. Since i was located about nine or ten i wanted to be able to use studied miles and i think it has to do with the fact that grew up in the eighties and then remember the commercials seaworld or shamu fly in more clouds and like playing with the ball. I guess that s akitas abandoned. It was mesmerized by smile mammals and they wanted to just do that may decided to move back to our sixteen yourself and one of the arguments that they used to commitment to move was that they're smiling children and like decided. Yeah that's that even though it's a senior all didn't the move to the contra when you're they told me that a chiller ever since i was ten years old and you don't want to we my mouth. So yeah that's basically how i ended up choosing career. That's amazing. essentially the pinna peds sealed the deal. Well that's awful. Sorry in what's your take now on aquaria that have marine mammals versus being a marine mammal biologists and apologised. Why did you at. What point in your studies did you decide. I want to study wild animals rather than work with them in captivity. A must've is actually where we might not most. We want to work with them. Into while that the ideal wilson knowledge that is impossible to a lot of fakes about these animals unless we have the nickel turn to a lot of experience with signing miles. We have to come up with particles to. Dan applied into wild animals. So even doing nowadays a hub choppy. People are against separate because remind mind mammals people to their price mighty sloppy rights Activity however in the community of time with my members we do acknowledge that theirself a benefit plus kept tv. Louis says that in order to help wild populations it's necessary for the mammal scientists who devote their lives to them to be able to study these critters in a controlled environment to know what their blood volume is and their chemistry was certain diets etcetera but all of that depends on largely on the conditions that they're kept under so you have to be very conscientious about the ethics of aquaria for example. You're working with making sure that this space etcetera and there's also the fact that a lot of the times have leave effective for generations candidates. Bring it back into the while. Release dusting possible idea. I mind my in my mind. I wouldn't have. Dvd million that. They have a huge potential. Tell me a little bit about what your life is. Just looks like. How often are you on. Expeditions versus being say in north carolina. Where you might be looking at data more or animals and captivity. Like how many parkas do you own. Does your work smell like fish. Like tell me about it so it depends on so very lucky. Ever since i was a grad student abuse need akin to uc santa cruz. Your st in the gusta lab. We've got we wanted to be in my research. The world that's right. It's the costa lab not the coastal lab. It's dan costa whose last name means coast and is one of the world's leading researchers in coastal animals. And i looked him up in one photo online dan. Costa is kind of kneeling on a field of ice. And he's wearing one of those big red parkas that people on the arctic wear and his salt and pepper. Beard is just level with a seal sporting a six inch head antenna. Kind of like a modest narwhal. Anyway lewis worked in costa lab and got lucky had these project. He didn't having students working dot so he offered me a those afford off. Not only am. I guess through chillers could hall elsa I eat invited to work all over the place. So i've worked in california so there's small company of defense years. He's about thirty minutes. North of santa cruz in california and does where we do a lot of did research. Twenty gnarly defense heels. He's worked in mexico and california with california sea lions which can measure up to nine feet long weighing eight hundred pounds and remember they are the ones the little tiny ears he's and he's worked in the galapagos with the endangered gloc- lions first heels. He's worked in uruguay and chile with south american sea lions. The dude has had adventures anywhere else. Notable nia and that'd be target got about ten times working with so emphasis credit or seals antarctic i. Ooh and when you're doing the work what are you doing. Are you hiding out in a tent and recording every move. Are you hugging than are you taking blood samples. What does that field work like. I wanted so it depends on where you are so i never actually have the experience. I did a hardcore by Snap tan for which time i've done that for like two weeks in that said i've good two more sort of his poile campsites fill side so The worst condition this quote unquote war was working on my dissertation. I went to southern offensively. That what we have a camp. Well no asa cam or we seeing but have absolutely. Everything's our help the hobbies Have satellite phone. You have generated heart. You have a cabinet and you have bedsides. Nothing about josh. Our even oh fancy. And when louis says the noah camp he doesn't mean rustic bunkers with his friend. Noah noah is the national oceanic and atmospheric administration which is a united states scientific agency within the department of commerce and their field. Lodgings were like summer camp housing. From what i gather and life as a seal researcher ranges from that all the way up to the mcmurdo research station in arca which by comparison pretty plush where you have three bar so you have wifi show. You're super spoiled there. So those happy survey experiences kill. Is there a type of field work that you really love doing. How close to the pinna pedsed you get to be so i just decided. Can i forgot about supervisors worked that emails. I'm if i'm ascended Also bit of basically looking at the speedway derek assists them and had the operate and in order for us to do that. I basically use two different violence when the babies while recall buying odeon which means physically putting tax on these. You can put in all to major site. Where did you go Dive how fosse move anything about their their bodies for example their temperature I use a lot of that okay. This bil- logging equipment. Remember the seal hat with the antenna. It's like not or tagging or callers and it helps pin apologised figure out where these animals are headed and how they eat so they can make sure to protect their food sources and thus them and right on cue by the way lewis dog demonstrated a blinked out by shaking her own caller to major. So you kinda like that now. Researchers like louis will also take blood samples to figure out what seals eat because when a pinup head is half a kilometer underwater. It's kinda hard to see. What their munching on so to analyze. Papyrologist used stable isotopes which are non radioactive forms of nucleotides that don't spontaneously undergo radioactive decay. They're stable physically sort of markers that tell me some about their diet Commissioner data on their teaches their law. They're further we start said so. I can collect the samples from descending wander under anesthesia. We can release from some damn and the going through their teen didn't retrieved information later so you get to straight up touch. Seals are permited conditions. i'm the permanence. Yeah so many questions about getting touch seal which ninety nine point nine percent of people will not get to do but one hundred percent of people want to do are they. Silky is it like petting a chocolate labrador. Or is it more like a cat or and are they muscley or are they like beloved lakewood texture of a sealed. Tell me everything is a species right. So have you ever paid out a grading. Yes so that's sort of what it feels like. Okay for to seal juicy allston have their another furry gonna have the nights under under for and gift personal so you have sort of the garb care. So they're harris had a more wages kind of course so they're very very full when you touch them. Okay they feel very When you're touching the detection this game. That lies over lover and delivers lamberti's now like jim actually coverage it so they're like competent balls of fat. Actually what's the difference between lover and fat blowers complicated side that has an added destructor to up to eight. So have some there. He makes the regions. Oh okay moving through the water gonna make sure that you are just tied as possible because anything that you have that moose with you the wiggles you mississippi drag and that's by you to the water for example this shape of a dolphin that perfect of repeat elect shape right with very tight skiing. And they'll have a leader bloggers. That should be daily shaved. Alzheimer's shoots setup converse stores. So seal is trying to get into that direction. Hasn't quite gotten there yet. They're not lover did not jealous. They're tight tight scheme. I thank you putting yourself now. A wet suit is louis comparing them to dolphins like dolphins are the cheerleader stepsister and pinna peds are a girl in a teen romcom. Who's beautiful but just still wearing glasses. Well cetaceans he says have just had more time evolving in the water now pinna beds despite being shaped like the world's most ambitious blunt and having feet that look like tube socks are falling off. They still kill it in the face area and they're huge. Beautiful linking is with eyelashes. Is there a reason that they are so cute. What evolutionary purpose though serve other than being adorable so humans somehow to find that have the is as durable decays. That's the reason why they're there ice. Ob so you think about when deciding mozart eating when they're finding prey doing this into the ocean and the no lacked in the deep ocean. Maximize your chance of finding food especially your turn gopher despacito by luminescent. Pray gotta have the. Is you get pets every ten in a beautiful light. tabatha hostage guys because they're basically are diving are trying to find food in. So there's no line and then what happens when they're just basking on the beach. How come all of that. Blubber doesn't make them overheat for all of that light doesn't make them wanna dive into a cave. Which is what. I want to do sometimes on the beach with us a bass When you see them that that they're basking pony our coal after they were daddy for whole night or even longer than that so they might be disarming Gets to hog out to get into water so go rent now. For example go to the shoreline us good form. Yeah so the channel islands are off the coast of santa barbara and her home to a staggering ray of pinheads including california sea lions harbor seals northern elephant seals northern. I yields rare guadalupe. I deals and even more rare steller sea lions. What really just hiding off the coast of oprah's house truly living their best lives now a few hours. North of that near san luis obispo lies a colony of around. Seventeen thousand elephants seals. Now this rookery of breeding pinna peds free to look at this open year round. You don't need reservations just off highway one but you wanna head to elephants seal dot org to make sure that they're open and to check out road conditions up there which can get a little wacky with giant falling boulders so maybe bring a good camera and spectacular too. Because what might you witness midday. a lot of beach lounging. you'll see that. In iran new and basically when he gets to have to get into water to sort of pull down onto bloggers re good insulator and the temperatures go out no matter what how what about yearly cycles do they migrate. Likes it or do they stay in one place all the time so different some species. Multinationals being better species are set of residents. that have moved in march. Some part of the mission. For example forty nine's they breeding colonies are in the shadow light on so in southern california but when ends they've mail stake off. That's what you see males in san francisco in oregon in washington state in british columbia. Actually way there from the lines the female side of a stay as speaker on lines so sea lions the lady stay put and the dudes jet when this happens. In this species human might montana relatives call this honky tonkin so sea lions by dudes. What about elephants heels from california mexico. Go all over the north pacific as far as the gulf Islands we have from conformed to have crossed international vein line going west to were japan. Basically come back on with their at sea there spent so we're talking about thousands of kilometers away from the coast. That's crazy. where are they sweeping or are they just like bobbing in the ocean. There sleeping Is actually pretty cool. There's sitting in that exactly conceals are basically. Just punish up a show. That are just well. None little their backyards. The eating small fish a their Small fish and once they reach a point. I guess when you're their full to how we address a drift dive like drifting off so lewis worked on a recently published paper in the journal. Science advances was titled forced into an ecological corner round the clock. Deep foraging on small prey by elephants. Heels talks about these aquatic naps. And whether they do that day dive actively about these two hundred years and then they turn their backs and they just follow up on this offer up tree falling off in what we know that because we police from the animals on weekends described the three major. I've been the animal so they do that with the death. When they're they're resting their diving there are sleeping and they're also digesting what that is on cars now so what. We care about c. F. issues aren't just amazing. Big just be constantly for about twenty minutes nap rich coming back after this person jeff three minutes and they he tax ninety percent of their time kind of lungs. Do they have. Lunch are big bad. That loans are actually very good. At holding their the oxygen matter of fact they sale before while some of their carry in their mouth in their muscles. Oh my gosh. So they don't get the bends because they empty their lung. Sac base patients to dive casiraghi maggie due to keno meters. Much that that's miles but so my second mile or so a mile. Yeah so for up to two hours. Oh my gosh that's like ten is at ten thousand meters around. Yeah i guess. Only my god for hours okay. This is weird question wise but underneath their blubber arthy ripped like do they have ads underneath there like foot of blubber bear back very big muscles i was saying they call a lot of the oxygen most of their oxygen in block and their muscles so their muscles are very big very well developed because basically they're swimming nobili asked running nonstop for a month at a time And just for timing. It's every couple days or something that just ridiculous lifestyle. It's like someone who's shredded wearing baggy clothes. Exactly what you mentioned males. And i have some questions about dwarfism because walruses they have these giant tusks right. An elephant seals have adong on their face and they rip each other apart. What is going on with their sex lives. Why do they have faced weapons. It goes again. It depends on the species. Walruses have Visit but it's not that much Cream were test. They're just not speak. I guess gave sea lions and edifice seals. They're putting on the domestic samples of six from morphism. Males can be two three four times as funerals. So you have data that has to do with the reproductive system and manifest deals that big trunk like their faces corporate protesters and is just secondary Character so we didn't really mean disorder by off his wife Habit one of the likely explanation is that he helps arrested us. When they're making their calls saw the have this system where elephants such as always say to that it have the loud colder louder Lions and not a lot of people that i double check this and yes alliance roar can reach one hundred and fourteen decibels about the level of live concert back when we were live concerts but an elephant seal can just honk in the face of that and can broadcast his holiness up to a hundred thirty decibels which is louder than thunderclap. A chainsaw and right about the noise of a military jet from fifty feet away. So the pro bacchus amplifiers the males sexual eagerness which is the most literal use of the term bullhorn just bull horny with the face and while the fees used to sort of void conflict. Is they remember males. Remember that calls from indivudals so at the beginning of this all nelson right so that the before a right they'll hang out together and just to having fights with each other and that weiner off defied you recognize who beat. You're gonna be able to do all i. I saw the guy that didn't go so well from negating best side again so they recognize each other based on their kohl's and wanted fees at pontiac Helps we've them is just making the call her own my god so they're able to make this really loud calls so people know. Don't mess with me kick your ass last season. Still your girl so you might not wanna get into fight and bite my neck again Experiments at a friend of mine via where she went to different colonies along the coast of california and she recorded from played. Those calls in a different color. And you can see that the guys that particular mail those very aggressive one colony didn't react to him at all to call but he did play the same call in to convert it anymore leaves. Everybody would be freakout guy. Oh my god. And i hate to assets but i mean they have what looks to be a dog on their face do they have like matching nevers. Like if i if you have an elephant with a giant for bascus like is he packing. Or what i don't know because there are internal we. What interdicts. how does that work the again. When you are a name of the sweets in the water you will never use the draft to you. Don't have any expertise or anything like that from now so like adult. Few nasa tation conceal thing while gentle. Have a bowl in a way that their turnover have sakes. Yeah the explosive pedes. Oh my gosh so you don't know what you're getting into until it's gotten into accepted. Oh wow but your guess. I'm going to go by this call. I mean he's really loud so except to do. So what am i don. Heck's a vacuum will. It's a dog bone. It's a bone in your own. If you're a walrus they do have most most mammals actually saw chump deception fake Native americans in alaska used it back lawrence's and they carve it so the use of a little piece of art. I guess little piece of art. I looked it up a walrus. Vacuum can measure two feet in length. And doing some deeper digging. Honest i found an anthropological article that traced the origins of use art to pretty much the twentieth century with native alaska artists. Doing the carvings not out of their own traditions. But to meet the demands of tourists looking for a kind of lewd souvenir carving from their wild travels so that being said pin heads of course the rich history of subsistence living and tradition in alaskan native arctic in you it and first nations cultures and other climates were these animals are endemic and their populations were stable until the last century or so when settler economies meant widespread irresponsible hunting and. There's a really amazing documentary called angry. That highlights the conflict between seal hunting bands. That showed just target a certain type of commercial hunting verses. Those bands that harm indigenous communities and on that note we donate to a charity each week and this week. I'm throwing in an extra arm. We're going to do one donation. We'll go to feeding nunavut dot com and that promotes civic improvement by raising awareness about food insecurity and the challenging living conditions in vote. Which is up up in the north and canada. They also work whenever possible with national regional and local organizations to support and evaluate programs addressing issues of hunger poverty. Housing education and health particularly mental health and feeding newt is a one hundred percent volunteer run organization so one donation will go there and this week an extra one. of course. we'll go to one of the largest choosing and this week. We is a donation to nonprofit alaska. Sealife center which is the only facility in alaska that combines public aquarium with marine research and education and wildlife response so you can learn more about them at alaska sealife dot org. You can also check the link in the show note to feeding nunavut dot com those donations when we possible by patrons and by the sponsors of the show who you're gonna hear about now. How's your wardrobe. Would people on tiktok make fun of you for skinny jeans. They would if they were me before. I used stitch fix to be honest. So they have experts stylus. 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Recent memory has creamed run. This is something i think about it. Says ruby okay. A lot of patrons had questions about obviously about dogs and seals and our dogs of the sea and also. What's up with their barks. Why do they bark as opposed to making other noises. They are part of that branch of carnivores bat. Dogs embarrassed to guess. That's the are kind of ducks of the see. They're very trainable as you can see annuity new car. Yeah they're very smart. There are however while animals. So i will highly encourage anyone to get close to animals. They actually will foster the ink and they mind like you've been cooks to them so this one thing that guess on the important messages conveys if i've been you see a seal be stairway he'll dunk start. Feel especially their pops. There's a lot of people on the west coast of the united states that he has a harbourside This monster badin and day call and try to rescue animal and mom's sure looking at the airpods in the water and then what you're doing in the mall from there so if you see opin- pup on the beach do not cradle it do not abscond with it cio. Moms will be like dude. I left to get one fish and you took my baby. It's not enough to warm the whole planet and invent polka music. Humans have to go stealing babies. Till so what do oh. Yeah so do it don do it. So he can call their seven sessions like environmental center for example in call distress of. Don't get custody leah. Ludovico have questioned one or snow. Have scientists analyzed a range of seal barks and if so can they tell which barks are associated with certain behaviors like defensive barking versus active barking. A lot of people when they want to think of bark actually are utilizing foreign market. Which are the ones that you see often appear in san francisco because of california not so the the different means to males usually do that as a warning time the world about accuracy communication Just fascinated in that. Were hiding per share. You want to go. And look for wales you'll skull caucus on espn Really yeah they have the most amazing salad one of the Bus pressure experiences is walking on this just walking on underwater vestibule the person ocean and then there used you. Have we built swimming around trying to get here two yards and they have incredible set of star. Wars robots slash. Spacey's calls armies. Excuse me you need to hear these seals right now. So that video was uploaded by the youtube account. Weddell seals science and apparently researchers in arctic with sometimes fall asleep to these seals vocalisations. Which sound beautiful to our ears and also can be super super high frequency. Captured by broadband digital hydrophone device. Their calls can go up to two hundred kilohertz so high that a bat would be like what my listening for people. I don't hear anything even without slowing it down above ice again. All kinds of trills and chirps. They make wookey purrs and whistles that according to one researcher dr paul zico a lead author of a recent study on the matter went on record as saying quote. It really sounds like you're in the middle of a space battle in star wars laser beams and all quote. So why do they do it. Are the seals do it. Nobody knows but some scientists have floated the idea that it could be location as they can dive up to six hundred meters which is deeper than one empire state building stacked on top of another entire state building and they may be hunting in that watery blackness of the deep and using those calls they really have no idea either way honestly. I've dated guys at bands. Who even with a basement full of guitar center items couldn't produce the kind of beats these fish. Eating blubber loafs can stone cold sober. It's a beautiful to behold. Have you ever had a moment where you're walking on the ice and you're listening to the spaceship calls from essentially aquatic bears underwater and just felt like what is my life so act. That sort of makes brand i. I'm not very good about showing. I'm not jumped screaming my dad so i'm sort of joy that sense bat is to be this. Swipe at go back so much it just uncovered expensive. Just been so lucky. Every non. Bandit a find me does herself. It's like well. I'm so lucky to be here and you say Working these tiny mouse to because working with that with else is just one of the most incredible experience center. Would you say. Oh it'll seals your favourite dow. They're they're just adorable. They don't have any brothers from phnom right. If you heard the recent episode about hers you may remember that the arctic pretty much means no bears here so there you can crush it would deal seal and just can you like what what are you. And they their backs in Values which is where you're supposed to do your rate up for his right to work with him. He's just incredible. They don't understand and he buys going to happen. Today that comes from land or from yes from harbors chris time question asker coming in hot with a good one just literally just wrote in ever boop to snoot. Have you ever gotten to touch seal. Just yeah some of the fact. That cinema him in weather is his way. This app. well it is the rubble bad. What we have sending on sunday at least to be we have to get into today. Have you and you want to make sure that unsafe. And one of these atta tricky about Anesthetizing seals said they tend to hold their breath a sabotaging to alter brick when you are under She said we do to make sure their breathing and their k. He's actually stimulated their dose playing with their ios makes imports so there several times beach of actress to seal when hoping that she'll every two minutes ourselves to make sure. Oh my god you just don't understand how many people just decided to become pinup at all a fake on your resume. One of the special skills. Ibm snoot. I have to keep them alive. I must their snoot. It's part of my life. stephanie broaches. Had a really great question. How do they deal with water. Pressure in their ears also are their whiskers useful so we stir sorry mason useful going back to their years. They used for the floyd by Floyd you sort of boy this changing pressure that we have so basically they lost the chamber that is full of air that we have seals are already have that anymore. So they can. They can died. Have that that much ear to ear so that's not up for them and their whiskers if you ever heard about equalization of doll scenes yeah fancy the equivalent. The location will be that. We stir research Sensitive organs that they used to pray in detroit at somewhere actually are hunting. They're able to chase fish within several feet. So if officious path They can feel the wake of that. Fee should turbulence at dustin the water if photo that past As a matter of fact we have colleagues from japan to have police. Tiny cameras conceals. And you can see how windsor died there. Their whiskers blue to their cheeks to their face and when the heat the death of which they wanna find rate the open their whisker like about china and the us that to find prey. What's yeah so eighty percent of their if that could be consumed party find it using their whiskers they can find clams buried in sand with just their whiskers imagine having a metal detector on your face or x ray glasses to detect buried candy bars. Such is the power of the whisker. Now how powerful are these whiskers. Another patron had a question. Emily stewart i. I'm question asker. Wanted to know i heard on often. It's is it true that harbor seals whiskers are so sensitive. They can sense an individual fish from one hundred miles away. My whiskers detecting more ripples. I see these ripples were made by big fish is not accurate. The one hundred miles away so that you're that the okay but it's basically what i was trying to say that experiment with we packed by meals. So again it goes back to say why when you the basically a covered there is and they have a little macaques in the bowl and the suicidal to follow the physics It wasn't a hundred miles away. Feet don't hundred miles away. One hundred meters. Yes so see. The two thousand ten journal of experimental biology paper entitled hydrodynamic determination of the moving direction of an artificial fin by harbor seal or the appetizing 2017. Follow up research study entitled seal whiskers may sense fish breath. He had a great question. They said i'm obsessed with seal locomotion. How did their ridiculous movement evolve and why is it perfect. Dogan's i i'm question. Asker says hello have questions about how they get around on land. They just flock. What is the land speed of a seal. And does it hurt their little stomachs if they flop onto something other than ice so when when we're doing commotion of seals the first thing that comes to mind of course he's how they moved into water and you have two different kinds of locomotion there have this lines for the the the aright has will call them atari. It means you're so the eared ones. How did they move at the user for free burke so you might paid basically the same. That's how tonight's. I is set up sweden. And they have a truce you of in the us. A high burst Basically go sites so those are the two different motions of have when they're in the water and you can sort of see how true seals are sort of that to the water than star when with goes to of course have to go through something that patients to be able to be successful at see that they've lost their grace when they have to move in a clumsy way. True seals have lost the ability to have those join that basically Connects your fever. You're hip so they have to move like a like a snake and that's the only way that they have to move sheila's d-actually has you have key to welcome four if you're not show with this if he's walking four. Oh that's how you tell the difference data. So i am perfectly working on all foreign. They set a project if if a high fevers forward and they can on all four. That's nine in the ear that you can see started external the year on science. I feel like that's such a good life. Hack somehow in a trivia game that's gonna come up important or someone's gonna time travel and be like wait. I know this view. Five a boo. They move faster than you. They move male adult elephants. He'll which is something like three tons of lauber muscle chasing me afternoon. That was about twenty feet tie in had to run. I was playing date so that the male will let us do the work that we need to the with females and a male following with me and he will keep up with me so have to iran Good at at doing anytime. i was still chasing me. And then you've got ten times to keep up with up. That people do nugget casino. They way fassa never cock a seal. Just leave it to the professionals who signed up for this life that could kill a million fancier acuna for sure really. Would they do it with their their teeth. Essentially there yeah or just if they catch you. Try to find you. Three tons of animal There are usually very frustrated in emergency. Medicines have the highest is so strong gusts duration of battle. So you can imagine or all that stuff stern going through their system for study they are. They're getting in female suspension. So you don't want to be there. So beware the horny. Angry insult pinna pets in celsius. Really no man. Yeah so leave them alone. Yeah absolutely and you know what. I have a personal question in terms of like videos that we've seen do you know that one video of the walrus who looks really shy getting a cake. The birthday cake by the way is just an elegant of their kind of crowned in a row of fresh herring and the birthday walrus is over bash fully covering its face with its flippers. Just imagine an alive. Coffee colored sleeping bag with mittens for hands. Who has touched beyond words is that is there are no motion like our shucks that peds feel or is that just trained into a captive walrus certificated say that us barney trading. Okay okay just making sure. Yeah i don't think. Don't i mean after working with them for so many years i assure you that they don't feel any shame whatsoever handy part in your face off and you'd be they're not like a cake for me okay. They work fish fart right in your face and not have that good about it. Oh my gosh. An heartbeat wants to know. Do they have tails. I met a sea lion and it had a small finger sized hail and it was so weird and cute of your wire and move. It is not No southern Steeper tongue out when they're under the and we had no idea. Why do you ever go through gloves. React accents andrew. Hageman for quest askar wants to know when do baby seals lose their white for into they have like an ugly tufty teenage phase. Like the rest of us. Are they just cute forever. That's between us you. The yard and most of them are what we call. Copy breathe air which means that they Optimize their time. They just wanna you moms for a short period of time after birth to give their I'm meal hassle of fat and their lactation. Beers are very short. A matter of fact the shortest Bureau front any mammal is four days. According who serious. Yeah and after four days mom off by by baby. You're not your own to do so. Possibly they're born in that much lauber right so the penalties due to keep more. We asked that his staff. Heidi they put a lot of blubber favors fast in the after they do that. They moult their coat and they do the ferry ridiculous when that happened on tread this usually a couple months after all weeks to months after mom lives malt their big coded. They're gonna grow their adult coat to its year so all seals they moult once a year. Ps i looked up pictures of their moulting and they kind of resemble like fake for bench. You left outside for a decade patchy warn awkward or like if you fell asleep midway through drunkenly. Shaving your head. We had a couple questions about teeth. Kayla smith i regret rich. Flight clara meyer. Julius spin dorf in manhattan eaten or some oscar. People wanna know about crab eater seal team all right said Working with them right now. So i go. Oh my gosh okay. Try to describe what their teeth look like. I saw them for the first time. And i was like this is like a fractional. I feel like. I'm on acid looking at a skull. What are they doing. So it's very complicated teeth charter. And if you if you perfectly and went there closer jaws counter like a cage And magin triangular muller's that have almost frankly swirls ads. They look like a van gogh painting made of teeth. Horrifying gorgeous these antarctic seal teeth. And they're eating. Krill are thirteen seats so if you think of abating us out so packed to water app. Crabbiness says the same theme with krill. And they haven't involve these complicated bathing. Instructors the whales have met. You can actually see how they're disturb. Their teeth are similar to that. So we've seen that in. Yeah so they look like they are absolute bone grinder is but really. They're just for feeding tiny things. Grab your seals back. Auburn ninety percent krill krill side note. Are these two inch long. Shrimp and crustaceans. And using steve physically seems to filter out krill. Are they eating any. Craps not been crops. I think wait what they call. The crappy seals seem the recent data set semitruck nation from the german word for station. Assume that when they're when they were calling the station union senior and someone trusted that us. Crap you didn't segel's. Oh my god i because i saw those teeth and i was like they must just grinding. Def razi crabs are seals are chief as well. You're actually vessel. I'm so glad. You mentioned leopard seals because jennifer tran wants to know was a leopard seal depicted somewhat accurately and happy feet and scotty d kimberly. Cooley ellen skeleton helen. More and rich flight all had similar leopard seal questions. I'm gonna read Flights question begum are leopard seals. Just the most bad ass fucking seal in the world and do they actually have any predators. And kimberly cooley asked do. Leopard seals only get a bad rap in movies because the penguins anytime a seal as a bad guy. It's a leopard seal and yet other folks who wanted to know this included jennifer tran scotty d longtime listener. First-time askar helen. More league iberson and allen. Skelton who asked are they like the pit bulls of the see. People have made them out to be bad but they're cuddly and adorable so leopard seals are. They vicious lewis. Says it's not really an applicable question. I mean there. I must just kelly and they have to do what do whatever they have to desert by they do. How about Somehow fair e- Office and hangman shakes and adults. And that's true They also eat krill. Some hide fish they hunted and they put the roots the water as someone the that these were hiding guns steal their feet. So they're very smart. My bad i've seen. I've seen a lot of the proceeds reputation by things is just not fair. Are super aggressive printer. So a diver died because the seal kim heron Basically been harassed her so county never the water under signal. Who the party dad. They know that there's under the water. You don't get anywhere. How okay have you ever been chomped on by seal no. I'm one of the few beaten. Oh good job to be very careful. Do get tunnel vision. A somehow be lucky. One question a lot of folks had. I'll list them all in side. Sarah sarah anthony willis junior becky. The sassy seagrass scientists kathleen sacks jennifer tran. Diane shuck men shayla zinc time question. Asker alexandria couture and polly spencer percent question. Asker one show how badly climate change currently affecting pin pads and are there any species which are in particular danger of extinction predicting that some species are gonna yields exploit new habitats so southern temple that are really liked the is with the ice trittin entirety. Kathy now exploiting new resources at today backing today. The seal sexually arctic and antarctic latitudes. They depend is so the reduction of ice. You're basically losing their habit. So if there's no is gonna be a lot of negative consequences follies populations and species of seeds. Ann lewis says that the smaller inland seals are at the highest risk of extinction when the climate continues to warm. I was like wait inland seals. So yes patrons andrea levinson even tone and first-timer olivia goldsmith also little dumbo. All of you asked about the by col. See all the only freshwater pinup head species and there are a few other species like these spotty ringed seals and some freshwater colonies or freshwater subspecies of other types of pinup heads that are in lakes are brackish water of the caspian sea but the baikal seals are the only ones that are just straight up living in freshwater. How did they get so far inland. I pictured them just hopping along on their guts to get there or maybe boarding a smoky. Greyhound bus decades ago. But louis says that some point there was a channel that connected these bodies to the c. way less romantic than a bunch of individual seals to say. Screw this to the ocean. After a break-up but either way they got there and many many moons ago that channel's kinda let them float there like a log flu me-right but clearly when climate change survival changes sometimes too rapidly for them to adapt now on that note. Heather in kate. Both i'm question asked i wanna know what do peds need from. Humans like is there a start stop. Continuous that you can share on their behalf. i think that depends on where you are is becoming more common in of social media awesome people g cell phones as harassment. So what. I was talking out earlier about not getting any melted that in be i mean enjoy nature can take features. We actually having to disturb. That's probably the best thing to do. You can use assume to from issues instead of getting to crush to them New york thing by far. I think that society the biggest challenge that we're facing spanish change so anything that we can do about ten to change to to solve. That problem is got obviously help. Addicting disciples well on that note. We have lots of folks who were kayakers right in rather than approaching seals on land a lot of people wrote in about seals approaching bem clean sacks wants to know why did the seal slap a kayaker with an octopus and terry gos- rutted. I love this Little storytime radio while on a leisurely short of young harbor seal follow me around and came up to chew on my fins of it not unusual. I've had that before. But he started getting more and more touchy and started grabbing my leg. I swam head to shore but he became more aggressive with my legs was his play activity or was he being sexual. Didn't feel aggressive per se. Terry says but he could have definitely ruined my dry suit and And grayson wrote in. Why would seal motivated to somewhat aggressively boop. This happened to me. While in red kayak in the missiel just stared at me a minute. I would like to know what it was in. Kathleen sack says why. There's so many videos of seals into kayaks rat-a-tat newbie enthusiast here. They wanted to know why are seal. So gloriously curious had one swim under my kayak last week unannounced and lost my actual bananas. So if you're kayaking what should you do if one comes close to you so i. I'm pretty sure that was a gruesome started. I in the one that slap. It's that kaepernick doctors. Basically it was the bat. Plays had about time to do that all day. Do bring this prey up to the surface and then they're shade your their head violently set a report their pray and this guy was probably just about place the time so. That's that's what happened. All of these fields. I mean i don't really have a straight answer out on a desire. My hypothesis eighteen. Basically fueled fact. Seen all these kayaks potential holdouts tight. So they're tire you just want to be. He'll do just call and call out on the platform or a bully or whatever our committees so we are offering them that either environments of the game. Come up to the surveys. She prop from that. It's available to them. Why not right and Someone could think also maybe this has sharply. The water is get out of the water. That could also Explanation so the best thing to do is calm nut charted the i'm on reading. Somebody's is going to go back to the water. This loss of Doodad on both for example. That are being chased by your pets. Oh they're the theaters and cheetos. And i've actually seen sea lions. Also that are under attack by our cast and they get super close to the bold or sheep or to climb up to the wire. So if you see a seal trying to stow away on your canoe. And i just need a break or it's Bloodthirsty predator just go bananas with speculation. Oh speaking of which. Morgan denison and a m madeleine louis jade pollard andrea eleven. And i i'm oscar. Ness had one question that was bananas. Several people wrote in a question. I had no idea where they were talking about. But vesper said what makes them go into banana pose and are they expecting me to draw them like one of my french girls and i looked up and they really do look like a banana. How are they doing. I can't do that. Yoga move but now that we that the ripped that makes more sense. what yeah. Why are they banana. We also called the dot some types of their head and look through most like explanations that happens because they're trying to keep their sleepers out of the water. If you think about that what. We're talking about the lover inter how will easily they are. They're bloggers covering the entire body so their entire bodies really well he's elated Fevers so if for whatever reason there to coal or to harm they use their free to regulate temperature too cold. You wanna keep your out of the water and exposed to decide so they warm all if you are too hot. Put your papers in the water and that will help you down them into bit. Suster sweat you know. Have you don't have the ability to dumb heat as we do today. Not sweat not cool so the only way to adopt heat or warm up is through their free verse have their alleged spots in their body. There are highly vascular rice. I love love love to serious. And that's one of the reasons. Why they they do the banana those Oh my gosh one. Last question from a listener lizzy car sounded up for a lot of us wants to know. Our seals mean are nice. I read something recently. That said they really mean what they look so sweet. My heart can't handle it their next. I wonder if i say. I'm kind of whenever i teach amana castle. I turn of trump therapy deny students and fell seal. Even though they look at rable how game they are why they can be the the a media like like that. I just basically means up. We sort of idealized feels that these cuddly animals in there do they can buy they can test me to. She says to humans so we can trust me this to them so the way ourselves everyone to stay away from the seals they're deciding. There's i think humor while said agreed agreed on the topic of of things that do or do. Not sick sort is the worst part about being. A professional padilla gist who gets to travel to distant parts of the globe and gets two boobs newts and gets to walk on the ice. Like there's gotta be something that sucks above he's more about. I guess i guess in science. Iq said because of the competition is. So here's and and so few resources. In times people forget about their ethics in the fact that humans and they do things are not very nice. It'll she's put it like. That is very minority. Very very minority. Their southern case the happens that he does happen. That's far to the fact that you recognize that means. You're probably not doing that. Which is what about the best thing about your life is a pin. Apologised yourself guber. I was about to pass on sir. my colleagues are by far one best Manic i have my best friends are May host suppo connex just amazing about parties. Incredible travel Saying been to every continent on the planet for each fit work. At by far i gotta say working with the animals is just young. What anyone can you imagine. The fact that he can be so crusted Animals attack effort sample. I never imagined while the street that it would be sedating ordinance. Ceo which are by far the most adorable cdl on the planet in working with at and taking up working with mount for example in. Yeah all that experience with animals. Is i find them. Credible parliament career. And then when he's doing this until basically campbell anymore we yeah yeah. There's so many there's so. Many opportunities to enjoy being dwelt having that goes counter with animals as yeah. There's there's no other thing like that. Just make sure to running them. Yeah them yeah. Keep pooping in out reading. This has been such a joy. I just can't thank you enough for you have been on my list for so long so ask arctic explorers adventurous questions. Sometimes embarrassing ones because our time on the planet goes by fast you might as well fill your skull with wonder so cut banks texture crush. Leave your hair dye lifter on twice as long and make the buttery jack reverse a summer trend if you have no idea what words. I'm using you can see my instagram at ali ward ahead a hair mishap. And we're calling it. The buttery jack is what we're doing summer buttery jack. It's happening now to follow louis. Which of course you wanna do. You can find him at. We sat on twitter or la houck's on instagram. Those handles his websites are linked in the show notes below very easy. Click follow as well as on my website at allie dot com slash allergies slash pin apology. There are links to ton of things we talked about and videos. they're also bleeped episodes and transcripts on my website. Those are transcribed by emily white of the word. Ary dot com thank you. Caleb patent for bleeping. The episodes thank you to every patron who submitted questions and who support the show. You can join them for as little as a dollar a month. You could sit questions to all adjusts. That's at patriots dot com slash gs. Thank you erin. Talbert for moderating the alleged podcast facebook group. You're also nice there. Thank you to everyone on the discord and the sub reddit for allergies. Hello out there Thanks to everyone who came to the live show by the way. Superfund allergies merch dot. Com has t shirts and hats and socks and stickers and face masks more thank you shannon. Felt us and bunny dutch of comedy. Podcast you that for managing that as well as help from susan hale and noel dough worth who helps schedule the interviews as well. Kelly dwyer designed and maintains alleyway dot com. Thank you to a duo of recently. Shorn editors charts leaper. Who has agreed to marry me. And stephen remorse who hosts the per cast and see jurassic right and has never agreed to marry me. But both are top-notch dudes nick thorburn wrote the theme music and he is in a very good band called islands. They knew album coming out soon. If you stick around until the end of the episode. I you know you seek right this week. It is seven forty eight pm on monday. May twenty fourth hours before this comes out. I'm in cincinnati. I'm in a hotel. I have seen one alive kedah from two hundred feet away. I am so thrilled. I can see their shells on the tree trunks from afar and finishing this episode. And i'm heading out to get dinner within all just coal and perry and victor perry and him seeing the cicadas at their house. I've waited over thirty years to meet a periodical brewed ten sakata and when i saw the shells On the tree trunks this morning legit got teary eyed. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to see cole victor. I'm gonna hug them so much. Everyone's vaccinated mac decades of wanting to see bruton about happen. I'm just very excited. I'm gonna send this senate off. I'd say. I have butterflies. But don't have billions of squirming fluttering cicadas in my belly very strict. Okay by pack dermatology balmy on the j. Zoology meteorology seriously.

arctic california chile santa cruz lions north carolina lee good institute of marine sciences wilmington alaska lewis dan costa south american sea lions Noah noah mcmurdo research station
Alaska's Salmon are Shrinking

60-Second Science

03:40 min | 1 year ago

Alaska's Salmon are Shrinking

"Does your little one loves paw patrol about dinosaurs well, perfect because the new season a patrol is here and guess what? It's a dino rescue I can't wait for my kid to watch each episode ten times nights on the plus side all your holiday and birthday gift shopping is pretty much done because of course, there are a whole new batch of dino rescue toys to you, and for a limited time at target get fifteen percent off the new patrol dino rescue toys with Code Pau fifteen patrol dino rescue, check it out. It's going to be possum. This is scientific Americans sixty seconds science I'm Julia Rosen. Every year salmon come home to Alaska's frigid rivers to mate, lay their eggs and die. The. State Salmon runs are some of the biggest in the world but over the past few decades, those big salmon runs have featured ever smaller. Salmon. Talk to people up there has been fishing for a long time and they're definitely able to tell you that we just don't see those really large old salmon used to see Christa a post doctoral fellow at the University of Alaska Fairbanks oaken colleagues at the University of California Santa Cruz, and elsewhere analyzed records of fish size. Going back to the nineteen fifties they included data on some twelve point, five, million, salmon, each of which had. To be measured by someone from the Alaska Department of fish and game, and there's no question about it. Salmon have shrunk sockeye salmon today are two point one percent shorter than their ancestors chum salmon are two point four percent shorter and Coho or three point three percent shorter Chinook or king salmon showed the greatest declines at eight percent. That's an average difference of more than two inches in length. The study is in the journal Nature Communications. The researchers haven't nailed down the exact reasons behind this trend, but they're analysis suggests that climate change and competition with wild and hatchery raised salmon, both play a role. They also discovered that much of the change in body size is due to fish returning from the ocean at a younger age now than in the past. Oak, says fish could be returning earlier because they're reaching maturity faster for some reason or because the ocean has become a riskier place for older salmon to survive what could be happening is the That otherwise would have returned large old. Just making. Whatever the cause this size shift has massive ramifications for people and the Environment Oak and her team calculated that catching smaller fish may have already slashed the value of Alaska's Commercial Salmon Fisheries by twenty one percent. It's also likely reduced the food available to subsistence fishers, many of whom reliance stores of salmon to get them through the long harsh winter by as much as twenty six percent. On the ecological side, the researchers estimated that smaller fish sixteen percent fewer eggs, which could depress salmon populations in the future and the Salmon Bring Twenty eight percent fewer nutrients into the watersheds were they spun according to the study after they breed and die kirk actually fertilize. Freshwater and terrestrial ecosystems with these marine derived nutrients that are really important and that used by all kinds of animals like bears and songbirds even taking up into trees with no single factor to blame for shrinking salmon there's no fix says, but there are still plenty of fish in the sea they're just smaller than they used to be. Thanks for listening for scientific American sixty seconds. Science I'm Julia Roseanne.

Alaska Alaska Department of fish University of Alaska Fairbanks Julia Rosen Julia Roseanne University of California Santa Environment Oak doctoral fellow Nature Communications kirk Chinook Oak Christa younger age sixty seconds Twenty eight percent twenty one percent twenty six percent fifteen percent
Prof. Jonathan Fortney, Professor of Astronomy & Astrophysics at the University of California, Santa Cruz

Scientific Sense

46:56 min | 3 weeks ago

Prof. Jonathan Fortney, Professor of Astronomy & Astrophysics at the University of California, Santa Cruz

"Welcome to the site of accents. Podcast where we explore emerging ideas from signs policy economics and technology. My name is gill. Eappen we talk with woods leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation be color a wide variety of domains. Rare new discoveries are made and new technologies are developed on a daily basis. The most interested in how new ideas affect society and help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation v seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide unaided content of conversations bit researchers and leaders who low what they do a companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense dot com and displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If you have suggestions for topics guests at other ideas please send up to info at scientific sense dot com and i can be reached at gil at eappen dot info. My guest today is focused. Jonathan knee who is professor of astronomy and physics at the university of california settlers. He simplicity categorizing planets to better understand the composition and cubby war with time looking gentleman. Great to be here. Yes oh thanks for doing this. So i want to start with one of our people or some twenty eighteen Analogs in reflected light at mostly. Cleveland studies for future space ten schools. In space-based high contrast imaging mission concepts for studying hot exoplanets even deflected light are currently under communities. Terry be given up with morning. Framework to estimate the signs. The science poon of such missions given differed instrument designed consideration so so be flown. Lot of climates. The be i understand this and Something like five thousand of them now. Yeah about five thousand planets have been found around other stars yeah and the rocky planets like like us and planning to get a better handle on sort of how copy our constructed he said idea just because a planet is the same size as the earth. And you know the same mass as earth just because it's a rocky planet doesn't necessarily mean we know much about its currence current atmosphere or how it's changed over time and whether or not be able to support life so going beyond just finding planets what we're trying to think about now is how to better characterize the better find out how hot they are. What their atmospheres are made of. And so that's been a big push in astronomy Just just recently and that will continue over the next decade yes no interest in rocky planets because there is a slight possibly of knife on them. Right yeah i mean. That's that's one driving force. I mean That's from the origin of life perspective but also just from the general astrophysics perspective you know. Just in the past few years we've found rocky planets around other stars like to know how common they are. How similar to the rocky planets they are around around the sun so we just don't have a very good general understanding that that class of astrophysical objects really at all you have to fly thousand found so far. Obviously we don't know a lot about them. But i a large percentage of them are rocky planets. I'll interesting the ones that have been in terms of the ones that have been found. It's probably about a quarter more katanga. What's actually a bit more common. Our planets kind of between the size of earth and up june. So neptune in your in us about fifteen times. The earth's mass earth and venus are about the same and so planets in that intermediate size which which might be actually a bit more like neptune than the earth are are the most common yet found but the rocky planets or about a quarter. I would say yes so. I guess sometimes gone super slade. Said they're bigger than the by law key and the seem to have some characteristics that appear to be interesting. Yeah yeah super. Earth is a word people use For yeah a rocky planet. that's more massive than the earth. Just because those were the first that were found that those are typically a little bit easier to fly than planets that are size and so. This is a technique that using here. Greet talk a bit about that. Soak you're look- looking at reflected light really sort of categorize the composition. My thing yeah so the two ways you can think about learning earthers several but one common way as you can imagine looking at the the heat. The thermal radiation a planet gives off another way is to look for the light reflected off the planet so that's of course very familiar to us on earth. We can look up in the sky and see light reflected off of venus or jupiter. Those the things we can see. And if you can get a spectrum of that light you can look for the fingerprint for different molecules that might be absorbing in the planet's atmosphere so You talk about. W i hear So so position to measure this in a systematic way in do we have enough data to look into the main issue is and. It's a really really daunting technical challenge right we can make computer models like we do at my group about what such planets might look like and You know what wavelengths our best to try to see these molecular fingerprints. But it's a really. It's really hard technologically. Just because a planet like the earth is about ten billion times fainter than the sun in terms of visible wavelengths. So you want to be able to build something that can block out that tarrant stars light and yet see this very faint light of the planet essentially right next to it and so the w i which has now been renamed of the the the roman space telescope. That's going to be launching in About five years that should be able to see planets that are around. We think Maybe maybe a billion times fainter than their parents star so maybe not quite down to the sort of ten billion we need to see Potentially planets like the earth but that would be about a factor of a thousand times better than people can do today. so it'd be a major technological leap. Yes that's a big time seeing to than star But can be really get a specter from that really big some. That's a great question. Yeah so the way. The roman space telescope is designed. Is that it won't really be able to do stuck tra well it'll it'll be able to measure the brightness in a few distinct wavebands So from that we'll be able to detect the light from some planets probably mostly a bit. Bigger planets may be more like neptune sized planets. And we'll be able to tell you. Know how bright they are Whether or not they probably have clouds in the atmospheric clouds to be reflective. But it is going to be difficult to to determine that sort of molecular composition but that asks expected the roman mission is really supposed to be a pathfinder for future more more more technologically advanced mission the main aspects of the roman space telescope or other areas of astrophysics but that that that piece of equipment called the corona graft. It's going to be looking for lights from planets around other stars. Yes oh Maidment you're talking about a four hundred more no became audience. You know who are generally This'll be technical. Not ethnic s as a s s But could you talk a bit about forward model. What do you mean by that. Yeah yeah so. The forward model is is if you have a. Let's say you have a planet in mind let's imagine the planet's atmosphere is made of nitrogen oxygen and carbon dioxide. Let's say Within the framework of a computer model you can pick the relative amounts of those molecules. And then you can imagine And then you could pick up a temperature structure for that atmosphere. So you could pick earth's temperature structure where it's kind of temperate down at the surface that gets colder than gets hot again. Up in the stratosphere you could pick some other sort of temperature structure for the atmosphere and you can take surface pressure and you get pick where you want. A cloud layer to be these. Are all things you can select in your computer model and the forward model is really just that calculating for the all the selections you've made what's that spectrum looks like it actually does the calculation of light from the parent star hitting that model atmosphere you created and then looking at the light that's reflected back and so the forward model is the computer setup to calculate that spectrum based on the sort of thing is that you put into the model in terms of the composition pressure temperature and clouds. That's what the forward model is. Yes so you find a sense that if we don't then so you can make a set of assumptions. You can simulate based on assumptions. You get an outcome and you sort of come bear that outcome to serving and then go back and do that over and over again. Yeah so in this particular paper since we don't really yet spectrum of an earth like planet around another star that's what we'd like to do in the future. What we did is we sort of made a few model planets that we said okay. Let's imagine this is. This is the true spectrum. Let's imagine this is the real spectrum of a planet around another star and we we added noy. We had a noise to that spectrum. So make it a light like like as if you're actually observing it with the space telescope. We added noise of that spectrum and then we did is we ran many hundreds of thousands even millions of forward models where we buried all these translators in terms of temperature atmospheric composition. And we then tried to assess whether or not we could actually determine the parameters of the true spectrum based on all these millions of forward models that we'd rob so sort of simulate what we eventually do once we have a real a real spectrum to try to assess how well we could understand the what this real atmosphere was actually like. In terms of the circus pressure what molecules are in its atmosphere. So it's kind of like a numerical experiments of what we would like to be doing in the future. Once we have this sort of high quality data us for a new space telescope. Yes they could be some type. Bic needs here right. What bench leaned future that up so finding out on solar system and then Beacon get something outside and sort of last machine if again seek it out to budget minded might be said boston. Yeah people have done. Experiments like that There are kinds of planets that we do have better data for better spectra for those are often called a hot jupiters. Those are big gas giant planets close to their parents star and with technology we have already like from hubble space telescope and also big ground based telescopes weekend get spectrum of those planets and we can see Just because they're so hot. There kind of jupiter even though they have similar temp even other similar in jupiter trump's of their mass they trotter atmosphere. So they they do look very different than people have done some. Ai work to try to assess whether or not they are a network like that is better than a human. In terms of assessing what molecules we see in the atmosphere. So just because there's a relatively small number of planets so far that we have spectra for it hasn't really been necessary but looking towards the future when we will have spectra for a larger number of planets. I think it does make sense to sort of Think about aspects. Like that. And how i could compliments you know humans in terms of Trying to assess what these atmospheres are like. Yes some a of job security than the human system dominant. Oh the machines. In begin motivated in you know. It did varies in in other areas of astrophysics. Gio which are much more advanced than planets right there. There could be spectra of a million galaxies or or ten million galaxies. and there. You don't wanna be the person who's trying to classify these ten million factor. You wanna have that off to a i or images of hundreds of thousands of galaxies and their people are really doing really incredible work doing that. The thing about planet planets we did just don't have the sample size Whereas in other areas of astrophysics that really has become pretty common in the past five years so i wanted to go to ended up people and a different topic So so this neighbor you save doom metal rich stars. Nate mental paddock's new insights when the giant planet formation from co-star abundance. There's so you say relationship big that compositions of giant planets and stars isa fundamental antlers in understanding i formation the solar system giant planets. Hands at bobsledder Competition meadows both in their visible at most Competitions and to keep listening to the metal and richmond of giant exoplanets is correlated with that there was talk so so maybe talk about giant planets in the solar system. I guess they're talking about jupiter and saturn. Are those two to one be about an using this sort of terminology. Yes to jupiter and saturn most of their masses hydrogen helium just like just like son so most of them masses Helium they have core. That is meadow ridge and so the puzzle heroes. How today. I don't know much about this choir that those medals decide the issue. Yeah yeah so One of the things we know about trumpeter and saturn is that although they're they're made out of the same material the sun is made out of the way we think planets form that star which is mostly hydrogen helium. that's a disk of material material around it. And that of material has the exact same composition as the sun itself or the parent star itself and but yet we live in a planetary system where none of the planets have the same composition as the son of course on earth. We don't have almost no hydrogen helium but even jupiter and saturn which are mostly hydrogen helium. They actually are much. More enriched in these heavier elements than the sun is and we think that's for two reasons one is that we think when when the planetary system was young both jupiter and saturn before they even formed they. There was like a ten earth. Mass object that formed at jupiter's location that ten earth mass thing was a big ball of ice and rock and that was the pro jupiter and the gravity of that pro jupiter whole down hundreds of earth masses of hydrogen helium. Down on top of it that made the actual jupiter which is about three hundred earth masses and at the same time. It was pr- looks like it was probably accumulating lots of asteroids and comets that also enriched it on the whole in these heavier elements compared to the sun in. So that's that theory of how giant planets form is called core accretion. And that's the that's the standard paradigm for how giant planets forum at a core forms. I that nucleate. S- this This accretion of gas. On top of the planet in so jupiter and saturn about enriched in these heavier elements solids compared to the sun in. So we'd like to know that the general outcome of planet formation around other stars at the solar system. We only have a sample size of two. And it's always hard to generalize from the sample size of two. So he'd like to know around other stars are these other. Giant planets enriched in his heavy elements compared to their parents stars. Just like our our planet song. So so that the cool phones you said it won't in masses and it gets the hydrogen when Do becoming a reason to believe Clearly jupiter sack on out there compared to at mars do heavy recent. believe out there that it's more hydrogen heat by At mars connect them. That's a great question. It's possible earth and mars did did accumulate a little bit of hydrogen helium when they were young But because they're both earth and mars relatively small planets they have weaker gravity so they're not able to hold that hydrogen helium as well and they're also closer to the sun and so they end up being much warmer that also leads to the hydrogen helium being warmer and justice harder and harder to keep traps bike by gravity and so If earth did have a hydrogen helium atmosphere at first people have calculated probably would only last about ten million years. that's a pretty in the cosmic timescales. Pretty pretty shorts whereas But but if you if you imagine the scenario we're earth was bigger. Let's say earth was five or ten earth masses than Any hydrogen it accumulated might hold onto for for several billion years. And so it'd be a very different outcome. appears to be two factors that Temperature and others of the planet. Yes so so. Do we have some sort of interesting. That says you know if you have an x. y. Die that you have to get to a disposition for jupiter like latitude deform. I would say we're getting there Most computer models are really only to form are really only able to form giant planets at like an earth like distance and further out Although we do see giant planets closer into their parents star. We think that they didn't form there. We think that they formed further out more like were jupiter. Then their orbit changed over time. So yeah but i think that's. That's that's a fair statement. I think in terms of temperature in terms of how big your initial core is and how and how your how hot how hot it is at that location you can either form a giant planet or not and so we think it's generally easier performed giant planets further from their parents star kind of where jupiter is though. That's not always where we see giant planets today. So that's the puzzle so clearly a dynamic system it's the function of. How many times have i would imagine the system. All of these things has sort of like Sucking up in helium so if something out there that sucks up everything then. You don't have enough due to a clumsy review article A hot jupiters origins most fears in. Which you you talk about this heart jupiter's and these really puzzling planner saddam day. And they say they go around their stars in four days or something like that and and they're jupiter light prided so So so what does sort of cut them. Conjecture one day auden called the formed. And how they got ya the most likely if read so we we think these hot jupiters planets that are massive gas giants like jupiter. We think that they probably for further outs at You know mars. Or jupiter saturn like distances from their parents star but then Because of a dynamical interactions if you have multiple planets in system or if you have a star has another distant star orbiting around it further away. That's a dynamically you can take that gas giant planet ads turbans orbit so even if initially formed on a circular orbits. It might have its orbit perturbed by getting pushed around by the gravity or pulled her out by the gravity of another planet or another star. It could end up in a very long elongated orbit where it ends up passing its parent star very closely and over millions of years that orbits can be that overtaken decay and so instead of being a long elongated gated orbit where it passes in closely that orbit gets circularize over time and so it ends up being a small three four five orbits all the time orbit decays over millions of years. And we think it's a it's kind of an odd circumstance you need a gas giant planet and you also need some second object in the system that perturbs its orbit's and that allows that giant planet end up on a strange elongated orbits and so we now know that only about one in two hundred stars has a hot jupiter so it's an inherently not very common outcome of planet formation. So that's why we think it's probably kind of an unusual scenario that causes them because they're not particularly common do the expect default jupiter's to cash into stars. Yes it depends on how long you wait so there are. There are systems now where it looks like. In the next ten million years they would fall onto their parents star which of course cosmic timescales is relatively shorts but more commonly looks like they're stable that they will survive for several more years eventually parent stars would likely expand to become a red giant. That'll eat the planet that but but most of them are actually unstable orbits which is a little bit surprising since the autumn jupiter and saturn appear to be stable audits. It is next sufficiently robust Inject hispanic nine hypothesis. I would say not just because the idea of this planet nine hypothesis is something that's relatively relatively small. Maybe something like five earth masses and that would be on an orbits Hundred times further out than jupiter and so a planet of that size that that distance could definitely perturb cometary orbits. And that's where this best evidence of potential planet night comes from but in terms of a planet like that impacting jupiter and saturn. It would be it would be a minor and so I think there's no evidence for such a planet district jupiter saturn alone. It's bar from the peculiar orbits a some collections of comments. Right right yes. He's it connected thing donovan bed. So the the heart of forms from the star it became an elongated orbit in overtime. The data dacian pool of gets closer and closer to a central audit Is sort of ejection from the system is getting of ejected. Would the son. He said the likely to think yeah. There has to be some sort of exchange right so one of the initial ideas. Was that if you form. Let's say two giant planets. If you imagine forming jupiter and saturn really close together perhaps one gets tossed in and becomes the hot jupiter in one gets tossed out of the planetary system and floats freely forever. And so. that's that's one mechanism for how you might form a hot jupiter and they'll probably does happen sometimes when more general mechanism is that inner one gets tossed in and the outer one doesn't get tossed out but its orbit just gets perturbed unto even longer period orbit so he just kind of hangs out much further away so we think that's the general idea so takes longer flooded to really get closer. At some point he is it is it. Mathematically or visa case get into cetinje longacre orbit over long periods of time the gravitational forego get close into the son's. Yeah that happens because tides so if your parents star was like a rigid objects than then you would then gravity i mean the alana elongated orbit is. It's quite stable. You could say that are for a long time but because tides. That's what shrinks the orbit so first moon system you know we we we are orbited imparts tides on the moon the moon of parts hides on the earth and what happens is that the moons orbits from the sun is actually getting further and further away. The moon is actually receding from from the earth and that's because the earth spins faster than the moon's orbit the moon orbits about once a month in the hot jupiter cases reversed because the planets are orbiting faster than the rotation of their star. And so the reverse happens that have put a set of the center. The moon getting pushed away. The planet actually gets pulled in. And that's what causes this orbit to decay over time in the planet's get closer and closer to its star easy A recent Rice and the against and and others that bet does starts going around the supermassive black holes at the center of the nikkei galaxy. They all seem to have really been elongated august so would be then assume over time david all get close and it goes to the black hole in saga. Yes yes. i'm not sure what the timescale is for. Those orbits decay around the black hole though. I don't want to speak out of turn People have spent a lot of time wondering about plants stars. That could be disrupted. If they come too close to the black holes people call those titled disruption events. And we haven't seen one in our in our own galaxy but it's likely that those sorts of events do happen when these stellar orbits decay around the central black hole. So it is. It's in some ways it is. It is fairly analogous. Yeah that's a good point. Yeah yeah and so one of the things. I wanted been puzzled about doing anything about it is Hot jupiters very close to the to the star imagined the temperature and off the star loose mass would. That's a great question and that that does happen. Yeah so this was something. People thought a little bit about when hot jupiters were first discovered in nineteen ninety five but no one had really people talked about it but I met someone used the hubble space telescope. two thousand three they. They stared at this parent star. Were this were one of the hot jupiters orbiting and they they watch the hot jupiter pass directly in front of its star. That's called the transit. When it blocks out a small amount of the parents stars lights and then they decided to watch the transit in wavelength of light. Were hydrogen absorbs so there. They were looking for hydrogen absorption and instead of seeing a little a little. Gyp they saw a huge depth. They saw the planet blocking out like twenty percent of the stars lights and so they interpreted that as a huge cloud of hydrogen around the planets. And so that's been seen now for a few dozen hot jupiters so they actually are slowly evaporating over time because it's so hot that their atmospheres are so hot but the velocity of the of the hydrogen is high at hydrogen can actually leave the planets and so so hot jupiters are all very slowly evaporating. But it's it's it's surprisingly slow. So we think hot jupiters lose about one percent of their mass every every every billion years. It's kind of a good rule of thumb every billion years. They lose about one percent of their mass. So they're constantly losing maths and the evaporates and then it gets hit. By the the the the light from the star it gets kinda gets pushed out into a wind. So that really does happen. It's just slower than you might expect. So this is the most likely scenario This dog dies goes into a giant or something in essentially keeps the gives supplant It's unlikely they'd lose loses snaps and gets back into the star. Some a right. That's right so so. The typical hot jupiter will will will will exist for its whole for toll parents stars lifetime and then when the parents starts starts to expand the red giant the planet will find itself kind of engulfed by the star. And then it'll be sort of vaporized and mix into the mix. It'll become part of the star. We'll get mixed into it. Yeah could he took a big about the composition of follower jupiter so You talked about heighten kiam. You talked about the metallic core. Beauty have some metallic hydrogen on top of the metallic core. So so they just have. How biggest jupiter. How many hoods would fit in there. Yes jupiter's maths is over over three hundred times. The mass of the earth and then in terms of its its size. It's about ten times earth radius. And so then in terms of volume. It's about a thousand times earth's volume so it's tremendously larger objects about a thousand earths which did inside and and and most of its mass. Yeah this material that we don't really have on. Earth called liquid metallic hydrogen and so the the atmosphere you see of jupiter that's mostly molecular hydrogen h two and it's cold it's cold at the visible surface of jupiter. It's like a hundred and twenty five kelvin and then as you go down deeper and deeper gets hotter and hotter and hotter at the pressure gets higher and higher. And if you go down about ten percent of the way down into jupiter you actually quickly reach pressures that are about one million times atmospheric pressure we feel on earth right now so about ten percent of the way down. You're already about a million times higher pressure ads and the temperature is five or six thousand kelvin. The temperatures similar to the surface of the sun. Actually and at that point. It can't be a molecule anymore. The pressure is too high temperatures too high. And so what happens is the hydrogen molecule dissociates. Edit also ionizers so what you get is just a sea. Protons and electrons and the density is really high to the density. Similar like a glass of water. That's how dense that the proton and electron see is so people call a liquid metal liquid metallic hydrogen and that's the part of the planet where jupiter's magnetic field is created. so that's that's the convective. Kind of churning overturning liquid metal that makes up all of jupiter's and that's what most of jupiter is down deepen its interior and people have made that in in in in in the in the laboratory you can. You can shock. A sample of hydrogen for like oh a nanosecond and you can make a sample of liquid metallic hydrogen. But then of course it goes away People have simulated that in the laboratory but interesting that cheap itself is a huge natural reservoir for the stuff mission over jupiter juno. That juneau's right now. Yeah so wasn't any plan to drop roll into the into the not for that mission. But when the galileo mission went by was there in the in the mid to late nineties they dropped a pro bed and that there was a probe in nineteen ninety five and that fell in and measured A lot of details of the composition of jupiter's atmosphere how fast the winds are how the temperature at various levels of the atmosphere. The probe can't make it too far down now just because the temperatures get too high in the pro itself. basically vaporizes. Yes and that. That's what i wanted to ask you so out. Jupiter's radius edged up point one x into it. You say you will. You will see metallic hydrogen manetti clinton meaning. It's swollen. it is it no. It's a liquid metal. It's more like liquid metal. Yeah and so. If you have to live at temperatures and you can sink deeper and deeper you think you look hit sort of that hard surface on jupiter. Yeah that's a great question. And that's something that the juno mission has really radically changed our idea of just in the past two years so people used to imagine that jupiter had had this sort of distinct core once you made it all the way down to the center you would hit this this ten earth mass thing that i talked about twenty minutes ago. This remnant core um and one of the things that juneau has suggested. I said one of the things that junior can measure is Is is the is the if the gravity field of the planet so the gravity field tells you about how density varies as a function of depth inside the planet. So that's sort of the thing that the gravity field tells you about and what what people have found from interpreting this. Juno data is that jupiter's court doesn't seem to be distinct. It seems to be what people are using the word dilute or diffuse like the core has been gradually eroded over time and so that core which may have been distinct when the planet i formed seems like now it's been diluted into the overlying hydrogen helium maybe because convection has been buffeting at Over the past several billion years and so it seems like that core although still something like ten earth masses is kind of distributed over the inner half of the planet so there we wanted things we don't know is that there's still any remnants hard core left at at the very centre or whether or not the whole thing is kind of been a diffused up that that's something that that that that that literally Came from juno mission. Just a couple of years ago. Yeah sack any different from us in most ways. It's pretty it's fairly similar. The cassini mission was at saturn and that's ended about four or five years ago so that was similar to the galileo mission from the nineties and that gave us a lot of data about About saturn and one of the one of the most amazing thing that cassini was able to show us this at saturn's rings actually act like a seismograph so it's hard to sort of back. Put your brain around. But you're saturn's rings have all these gaps is features in the remains and most of those gaps in the rings are judah gravitational perturbations due to moons orbiting around saturn. That's wider gaps in the rings. Otherwise it would be just kind of uniform but it turns out that there are also features in the ring that are due to the planet. Actually i don't know vibrating. It's quite the right word but like you know. The the earth has earthquakes that makes the earth vibrates and we could use earthquakes to learn about the interior of earth. The sun does that too. That's a field called heliotrope. Seismology studying oscillations in the sun and that tells us about the inside of the sun and it turns out that saturd- oscillates to it. Actually quivers like I don't know like a bowl of jello or something and those very subtle vibrations. Actually we can see that that the that affects the gravity affects features and saturn's rings and people have used those features in saturn's rings to tell that saturn's core is also diffuse patterns core has also a road over time which is which is interesting from connection to jupiter standpoint. But it's also kind of mind blowing you can. New saturns ranks to learn something about the interior structure of the planet itself so you send a general principle. Jonathan could use been trying to get to the size. You can't really have stephen cool. That overtime is going to get diffused. I probably hard. It's always hard to know from from from a tiny sample size. But given that both jupiter and saturn look like they have this sort of Eroded diffuse core. That's fast becoming the new paradigm. I would say we think about giant planets that the corps probably seeds their initial formation. But then after time that core then begins to get Dredged up over time within the planet. And i would imagine the higher the temperature. The more likely that happened right so the ought to. Today's probably sort of getting stood up companies insights. Yes yeah that's very likely to be true. Yeah yes oh incompletion than so. I know that you're doing to work in the stadia. Getting out of data be a fund or x. planets. Be fun some via things like hard jupiter's but you save on only one in two hundred so if they're not back usual so Forward what sort of your gut feel conjecture Do we have a good sort of theory about planet formation or does it have to be bonafide improved. Sheen's over time it's funny. People developed always ideas about planet formation based on looking at our own solar system right and that was our example. We could study and then Over the past twenty five years. We've see planetary systems that look nothing lower on planetary system right you have hot. Jupiters you have super earths. there's planetary systems where you can five multiple planets all interior all interior to mercury's orbits like inside of mercury's orbit in our own solar system. We have nothing there. So i would say this is. This is the era where people are developing new models for forming planets. All the time all the time. There's papers about this every day. And saw the other comparing to these new data sets from the kepler mission and other other ways we were finding planets and so i would say over the the the the ideas people are generating today. I think a lot of those ideas will stand the test of time. But i think i couldn't say i couldn't say that there is any one paper published in the past. Five years is definitely right to these. Other ones are definitely wrong. It's just a time of so much upheaval. Which is really exciting That makes sense kind of uncertain. Which of these ideas will will still be around ten or twenty years i would say. Is it fair to say that the end of one experiment kevin saw system is not really useful Donate theories would you say that is that is giving us enough information. It depends so i made. It is a sample size of one. But the nice thing about it is that you get such detailed information about that sample You know one of the things. We know about the solar system. It looked looks like we were. Our system was sort of polluted by a supernova that exploded when the when our system was very young and that that seated us with with with the radio-activity and so that's really interesting and we don't know how commonly that happens to me. There's a really nice complement of studying our own system. In extreme detail to figure out a time line of events in our own solar system. And then you compare that the exoplanet perspective where. You're never going to have as much detail about any individual system but you can see trends much more easily because you have a larger sample size. And i think that's really where the understanding comes from is complementing those two points of view. It's exciting time you national physics. That's for sure. Yeah definitely definitely. Yeah thanks so much time. do go them. Well thanks for having me. I had a great time. And i look forward to hearing the podcast and others coming out from you this summer. Nixon thank you all right like this is a scientific sense. Podcast providing unscripted conversations with leading academics and researchers on a variety of topics. If you liked to sponsor this podcast please reach out to info. At scientific sense dot com.

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Prof. Raja GuhaThakurta, Department Chair of Astronomy & Astrophysics at the University of California Santa Cruz.

Scientific Sense

47:57 min | 8 months ago

Prof. Raja GuhaThakurta, Department Chair of Astronomy & Astrophysics at the University of California Santa Cruz.

"Welcome to the Scientific Sense Podcast, where we explore emerging ideas from science, policy economics and technology. My name is Gill Eapen. We talk with world's leading academics and experts about their recent research or general areas of topical interest. Scientific Sense is an unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation. We cover a wide variety of domains, where new discoveries are made and new technologies are developed on a daily basis. We are most interested in how new ideas affect society and help educate the world how to pursue a rewarding and enjoyable life, rooted in science, logic and information. We seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide un edited content of conversations with researchers and leaders who love what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense dot com and this podcast is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If you have suggestions for topics guests or other ideas please send up to info at scientific sense dot com and I can be reached at gill at eapen dot info. My guest today is Raja GuhaThakurta, who is a professor and department chair of phony astrophysics at the university of california. Santa cruz usage focuses on galaxies their dogmatic content cannibalism history and chemical enrichment as revealed by spectroscopy of their solve stellar populations. He uses the hubble space telescope Scope for listeners. But come dodger thanks for doing this I want to start with one of you. Some some of your reason work which hasn't been published yet discovery of an extensive cato of metal poor stars in the ominous plateau galaxy In which you say. Understanding galaxy formation involves look back and fossil record studies of distant the nearby galaxies respectively debris trails galaxies steroidal halo of all stars pro by david ends of bottom up formation while a title disruption or merging of war satellite galaxies. But it's difficult to study our galaxies. Large-scale trumpcare from the dead. There's always a problem. Yeah unfortunately we are in the milky way so so really deeply understand milky baby. We have to look outside to something that's comparable so so. That's the reason you're looking at antonova as a proxy that's correct A good analogy would be you know. Astronomers being an astronomer is like being stuck in your bedroom for your entire life you know. The walls of your house are translucent. So you can sorta see into the next room but you can see through the house and you can't see your house from the outside because you've never left your bedroom but bedroom windows and you can look to your neighbors house. And the neighbors houses close enough. You can see a lot of details of the outside and the interior. Perhaps even of the neighbor's house that's what android as it's her neighbor. It's the nearest galaxy. That's larger than our own. Galactic home is larger than the milky way and distance wise How far is from us. It's about two and a half million light years away in other words the light. We're analyzing today left the galaxy two and a half million years ago so we are looking into the boss we are always looking into the bust but two and a half million years is a very short time in the history of galaxies or in the history of the universe so galaxies typically have a were formed ten billion years ago. That's ten with nine zero after it. So looking out to a half million is a really nothing that that look back. Time is very short compared to the age of the universe nature galaxies way so the age of the universe is approximately fourteen billion and so two and a half million is video very short Sh short period And and i understand is actually moving to would milky rare right. That is correct. Moving to adjust. And so this is you know. Sometimes it's a bit of confusion. Because universe expanding sort of a expansion now accelerating expansion but in spite of that You have sort of physical movement in this space. Fan drama that surpasses space-time expansion in such as that it's actually moving closer and closer to us that is correct so there are. The universe is expanding but only on average that is on large scales. Galaxies are moving apart from each other. And you said that expansion rate is getting ever foster with time. There's an active outward push that is winning over the gravity of material and galaxies. Gravity of luminescent dark matter in galaxies is being outdone by this outward pressure of dark energy. That's only true for the universe. On average there are pockets of the universe that are small in astronomical terms that are small pockets of the universe in which difficult gravity has halted the expansion and indeed reverse the expansion very good example of that is our own solar system. the sun's gravity is holding the planets in place meaning that not static but the orbital radius is not changing with time the radius of orbit around the sun pluto's radius of orbiter on the sun. These have been frozen. The radio has been frozen by the sun's gravity so there's a completely counteracted the expansion The milky way andromeda system is an example where our mutual gravity has not just halted. The expansion is leading to a collapse so it so the the movement of andromeda towards milky way is really driven by the gravity of the to the gravity of gravitation fools between the two galaxies. That's correct mutual reputational attraction of the to andromeda thought to be a little bit heavier than the qa galaxy the mutual gravitational attraction to is causing both of them to move towards their common center of mass. So so at some point i We haven't gotten to the people yet but this is an interesting thing to think about at some point. These two galaxies are going to collide. Let's correct and if so what what's the timeline for that. The time is a few billion years out nothing immediate. It's nothing immediate. We have a lot of time to Get get out of you. Know actually indicating. There's no getting out of here. There is no getting out of here a lot of time to think about it before this collision happens but the nation is not thought to be catastrophic in terms of the earth's gravitational bond to the sun it it may be catastrophic for the sun's gravitational bond to the milky way. We may get often as a system. The sonnen soda system. Even that does a very small chance of that happening because the sun is in the inobound safai galaxy. The autism are likely to get often but The chance of the earth getting ripped from the sun are essentially zero and There's a small chance of the sun and solar system will become An exterior entity wouldn't be no longer be an interior star in the milky way galaxy. That that's an amazing thing isn't it Even though they look at the galaxy look at milky way you can see Millions and millions of stars but the space between them is so enormous. Been to galaxies collide. They're sort of going through clean through each other in some sense rate very much so the space between stause is vast compared to the sizes of stars. And this is something i i teach in. My introductory class at santa cruz is if you take the stars in our milky way and you shrink shrink. The milky way proportion at these with the stars are one centimeter in size. Each start is glass marble. That's one centimeter in diameter. That's the size of a mobile right as kids. We played last marble so one centimeter mobile. If you imagine this shrinking everything so that the sun becomes the size of a one centimeter glass. Mabul while the nearest son the nearest star to the sun would be three hundred kilometers away in ill down model. So they're like one centimeter model's separated by three hundred kilometers. So you can see why Collisions between stars are very rare when galaxies collide the as you said the literally pass through each other yet the collisions rare but obviously the gravitational takes is going to be huge accurately. These two galaxies will form is sort of combination galaxy or over a long period of time. Bread that is correct. It would be like a corporate merger to big companies. Come together a few people get laid off. That will happen. A few stars will get off and in this process when the two galaxies collide. In fact it's those few stars that get often from the milky way andromeda system that carry away energy that allows the rest of the systems to coalesce into a single big galaxy. And so so we have not the things to worry about a few billion years out by but still happen before the sun Sort of Son so it becomes a red giant happen much before it'll happen around the same time we think. The sun is about a middle aged star. The sun has been around for four and a half billion years in about four and a half five billion years. The sun will blow up into a red giant. That point it will blow up so much that it's likely to engulf certainly scorch the earth but likely in gulford So around that same time Are the andromeda galaxy. Would start to get close enough that it's distorting the shape of the milky ran really starting shape. The you know the predictions the coalition will last for a few billion years. It's not an instantaneous. Collision it be a few billion years between andromeda. I close approach and the to becoming one galaxy where you can distinguish the two pieces anymore. That process itself will last for a few billion years. But it'll start around the time. The sun is becoming a red giant. Okay and because of the gravitational force i would imagine this movement accelerated right. That's correct that is exactly so as we get closer and closer to become faster faster that's correct but the but the whole dance as you say kill going to take a couple of billion years try and so andromeda speidel galaxy as well it is is a spiral galaxy just like our own so you have to spiral. Galaxies merging so that case will be getting elliptical. We will get into the galaxy in fact when you have two galaxies that are spyros but they're comparable in size the kind of merger it's called is called a major whether to galaxies comparable to each other in terms of mass and size so they will literally destroy the structure form each will destroy the structure and form of the other. And you'll end up with sort of chaotic Set of Orbits chaotic is not the right to mathematically but a good way to think of it is the set of bees swarming around a hive as opposed to a marching band where people are going around on a plane and they're marching in lockstep so they're all traveling at the speed in the same plane in the same direction around a flat field say the spiral galaxy orbits are lots a lot like marching band. Stars are orbiting in a plane whereas when you take bees swarming around the hive each going around the high because they're attracted to the smell of honey but not to be are following exactly the same orbit they're not in one plane so elliptical galaxies are like be swimming around a hive whereas spiral galaxies. Unlike you know well-disciplined marching bands marching around in a plane. Okay so i wanted to get into the paper little bit so discovery of an extended cato of metal. Poor stars And so just to set the context. I don't know not about this The store is is basically a fullness that into helium and the the cotton generation of stars really has lot of materiel linden from previous generations direct so some of the Elements that we know from from lithium onward audie the created in in some sort of a star blowup seconds like a supernova. Or something like that and so so if you look at the composition of stars it should tell us something right is that that is exactly right. So what happens is during the course of their lifetimes stars produce elements in their interior. They you know there as you said. Hydrogen to helium is the most common reaction going on centers of stars Near the latest stages when the sun becomes a red giant it'll be producing other elements in its interior things by carbon and oxygen included would be produced but those remain in the interior. It's really when we study a star in rommedahl star in the milky way. We are seeing that the light that was generated in the interior of the star. We're seeing that light escaped through the lost translucent layer of the star i say translucent it's not completely transparent because the elements that are in that outer layer of the star imprint their presence by absorbing certain wavelengths of light they cause absorption lines calcium ion magnesium these elements that we are seeing in the spectrum of a star in and rommedahl star in the milky way these elements seeing when not produce inside the star. So what we're seeing is. The history of the material that the star was born with a star was born a long time ago in a galaxy. Typically hadn't been much time for chemical in richmond within the by previous generations of stars. They hadn't if it was born a long time ago there hadn't been many previous generations so the star is born relatively pristine mostly hydrogen and helium and very limited quantities of these heavier elements like iron calcium cetera. On the other hand if you take the like the sunset was formed four and a half billion years ago they'd been many generations of stars were born before born lived and died before the son was born so the son was born with a relatively. Enriched medium chemically enriched medium right right and so so so. I understand this country digest. Fourteen billion years of age of the universe early stars. I would imagine ca all gone. Great the first generation stores or a distillery. Some of them are still around so it a lot depends on the mass of the star. If it's assumed that the same acid son they live for about ten billion years so if really if the star formed thirteen billion years ago or twelve billion years ago and it's the mass of the sun by now it would have turned into a red giant. And it's now fading as a white dwarf if the star is less massive than the sun. Let's say it's a half the mass of the sun. The lower the mass of the sun the longer it lips and this is a little bit ironic because you think that The less mass of the sun the less the massive the star the mass of the star. Sorry the less fuel. It has to burn. And that's absolutely right. But the amount of fuel is not the only factor that determines how long start is going to live just like the amount to feel in the gas tank of a press is much less than the amount of fuel in the gas tank of a big hummer suv. Guess which of those vehicles visits the gas station more often. It's the big suv. It's not how much tang how big your tank is or how much gas you have is. How rapidly use it and how much gas you're have. It's that ratio that's important and lose stars tend to be very inefficient in In how they are using up fuel they don't try and very bright and so they are actually using their hydrogen to helium. Very very slowly compared to a massive gas guzzling star. Okay and so soviet. expect The sun is around four five billion years old. It could stay stay on for another four five billion years so total life span of ten billion and something less than that something less than the size of the sun could stay on for more than that and so so. Let's say you know this is all that is calf the size of the sun but could we have had Such small stars video early in the in the history of the universe we do in fact when stause born they're born with a spectrum of masses on i mean i mean meeting spectrum in literal are in a figurative sense given a literal sense of astronomy when stars a bone There are typically some big ones some massive ones and but a lot more lemass once and this function that describes. The number of stars is a functional. Their mass is called the initial mass function so when a cloud of gas and dust fragments you get a few big stars but lots of small stars you know just like if you took sledgehammer to a boulder. You'd get a few big pieces but you'd get lots of tiny grins so that's of course You know taking a sledgehammer to does not a perfect analogy for how fragmentation works in molecular clouds when molecular clouds of clouds at are dentin molecules fragment collapse under gravity there fragment and you get a few big fragments. Would you get a lot of small fragments. So typically when the sun formed out of a cloud of us they would have been the formation of a lot of low mass stars as well and this is true for any star when stars form. They're typically not formed alone. They formed in groups families. Okay so so do stars. Do we call them so. The first generation starts generation means that. Yes they would. I mean if you imagine a galaxy there's been a lot of research that's going on about the first stars in the universe and topic of huge interest because those stause by definition would not have had previous generations before them and so their chemical composition would be quite different from our son's chemical composition. They would have happened early in the universe's history because if you give it enough time the process of stuff who may ship sort of inevitable. It tends to happen. It doesn't start at the same time in all galaxies but it tends to happen and so So this would've been early in the universe's history. That these i would have been foaming and there's a lot of research that's going into both trying to identify these ause in the universe using powerful telescopes but also into doing the kind of calculations That one can do with buffalo computers today to figure out what those dogs may have looked like in terms of chemical co. You know how they would shine How'd you know what their appearance by. The you know. Those two things go together. You predict what they should look like and you go out and try to look for them and the acquisition of materials over time will not be big enough to change the composition. But i'm thinking about as in a lot of asteroids crashing into the sun and those things have lots of other stuff in it but but that effect is pretty small in the grand scheme. It is pretty small just because of the total mass involved in this. This debris The so small Let's say of course you're looking at a solar system today that's mostly been cleared out of this material but it's yes it's generally thought that this post breath sweeping up of material doesn't affect the compositional stars very much. There's been some interest in what happens when a storm swallows. The giant planet like jupiter analogue. Very close to the sun and if it spiraled in and much with the sun will that produce a chemical signature in the in the sun. That's that has been a topic of interest. But yes by and large nbc's jaws we see them with the material at least what we see in their exteriors as the material they were born with okay and so so we would expect second and third generation starts to have more metal or more heavy elements in them me as a fraction yes as a faction and so this observation that you have in andromeda you say discovery of an extended. He'll of metal poor star. So what what to the for the implications so one of the couple of implications one. Is this very clear. Trend that people have known about for a long time that you know my students and i have contributed to a little bit. Is you see a very clear. Trend between how chemically anemic a star is and what kind of galaxy It lives in right so when you have a galaxy like the milky way or in ramadan generally there's been a lot of chemical evolution in massive galaxies in low mass galaxies galaxies. Also come in just like stars coming different masses galaxies coming different masses when you have a very low mass galaxy it tends to contain stars. And you know the the reason this is thought to be. The case is relatively simple. The way in which materials chemicals get transferred from one generation of stars to another is through the explosion of stars stars form mathilde interiors but the material that's State locked in the interior doesn't do any benefit to the next generation. It's the part that that is the outer layers that explode that get dispersed through the surroundings boost that dispersed material is what makes it into the next generation. Now it's a little. We shouldn't be thinking about finite generation generation one through three because star formation is a continuous process so we shouldn't be thinking about generation As just like in the human population in my family. I can identify generation. But if you'll generations are interleaved in that sense right so they're it's they're not all in lockstep like that And same is true for generations of stars but coming back to this so if said exploded material that then makes it into the next generation of stars so So your question was that you know why is it that the stars in the outer part of the andromeda galaxy to wise. Why are they metal. Poor well. I think the simple reason as we think they came from small galaxies. So why is it that small galaxies. Why is it that they have a low chemical content. Let's let me answer that. And why is it that the small galaxies are the ones that are contributing stars in the outer parts of the andromeda galaxy. Let me to both of those questions. So small galaxies have very low chemical content because when these explosions happened the amount of dark matter the depth of the gravitational potential of a small galaxy so weak that the explosions get thrown clear out the galaxy. Don't benefit them. Sharon and don't so i would imagine just the probability of the supernova happening is also small right because it's just yes. There are fewer stars so there are fewer of them exploding but the in but that is you know since you measure chemistry as it's a specific quantity that is you know if you're you're you're stars also for that supernova to enrich those two exactly cancel out but the fact that the supernova material is not being retained by the galaxy means that that efficiency of the transmittal of chemicals from one generation of stars to the next is very low in mass galaxies whereas in high mass galaxies where the gravitational potential as deep explosion. Just rains back into the galaxy. Doesn't escape so this low mass galaxies That's what because sort of dwarf for galaxy and so so. So how did they fall is just sort of a random occurrence. That just didn't have enough. Meteoric for those games took fragmentation process. Just like we said you know a single cloud fragments and forms of whole bunch of stars in the same way as you have on much larger skills as material in the cosmic web collapses under moderated by the gravity of dark matter. There you form lodge system sludge galaxies. You form a lot more small galaxies than you form large galaxies again. That's just a very generic to fragmentation typically form a few small fragments you form a few big fragments a lot of small fragments and simpson has happened in incubate to we know of blog galaxies sort of in the status of to wolf galaxies. That are still intact. Nbc's both galaxies that are in the process of being disrupted and this halo of Halo of andromeda stars. We saw really represent the completely digested remains of the dwarf. That drama dance cannibalized over. Its history yes. So that's the second part of your your explanation. So how did this. This stars from this dwarf. Galaxies actually migrate toward the to a despite her galax so that process as we see andromeda. Today there are many small galaxies orbiting it. Many many of them seem for the milky way when galaxies get close to andromeda or in the case of get close to the monkey away and they can because they can be on elliptical orbits typically our own elliptical orbits at close passage what happens is the knee apart off that small galaxies pulled harder than the fall part of the galaxy because the galaxy. This even though it's a small galaxy it has a finite size and the near end is pulled harder than the far end just because gravity is a distance dependent false that denser stretch out the galaxy and once it stretches out that's a runaway process so this is called tidal disruption tides in the same way that the moons at moon sons differential gravity boots on the near side of the ocean. Harder than the Stretches the water into a cigar shape a cigar shape Does that on constantly galaxies due to each other and so The halo is sort of the outer parts of the galaxy. Of what actually that. It's the it's the spouse distribution of stause boss and very extended distribution of stars that the central disk and bulge are embedded in that halo is mostly made of documenta. But there is a smattering of stars. And it's these stause that discovered in in andromeda interesting to these people expect these stars to be sort of old rate but from a competition perspective. We don't find them to have sufficient amount of those two things go together. If if they don't have a lot of metals that suggests they formed a long time ago. Right right okay. Okay and so. And so so that i'm going back to e the explosions and and material coming out of the explosion beheld in the dwarf galaxy because of lack of gravitation. So it's nothing to do with the age of just that when explosions happened. The caveat metals are not Tained bitten within the star search two different factors that can affect the chemical composition of star for a given galaxy the older star the more chemically. Anemic it tends to be but if you're once you start comparing stars across galaxies the mass of the host becomes a very important factor in determining how chemically enriched or not stars. Those are the two factors that is the the host its gravitational potential and also when it formed these it depends on both of those factors right. I take a quick break when we come back. We'll talk about your other paper related to surface rights fluctuations. Thank you. this is a scientific sense. Podcast providing unscripted conversations bit leading academics and researchers on variety of topics. If you'd like to sponsor this podcast please reach out to in full at scientific sense. Dot com soviet-backed jaya. We were talking about the composition of stars the chemical composition of stars and Because we are in the milky way. We can't really observe things here so you have a paper looking at stars in the nearby galaxy andromeda and one of the things he'll finding there is that In the outer stretches of the galaxy you have stars that you say are metal poor and you have a hypothesis. In the paper that those are stars down formed in the in the dwarf or small galaxies surrounding over there and then migrated to would that galaxy. You have another paper here on a on a different subject entitled new spec school technique based on kgo edition of surface brightness fluctuations nbc four four four nine stellar title stream now. Ngs's forty forty nine is dwarf galaxy. That's correct and so so. So so what are we. Thank you do academy Rights so what happens is so. I'll tell a little bit about forty four forty nine i. It's a dwarf galaxy that seems to have recently cannibalize even smaller galaxy. So that's interesting because you know it's like a food chain things that are you know very low in the food chain. Still have to eat so this. This thing has recently cannibalized system that was discovered by independently by two groups and auto group decided that we would try to get spectra off this barkley digested remains of the even smaller galaxy that energy for nbc forty four forty-nine recently cannibalized now The way things work is When of course when a galaxy far away and you see forty four forty nine about four times further away than drama data and when something is four times further away comparable star in andromeda versus nbc. Forty four forty nine the star in Entity four forty nine sixteen times fainter it. It goes like the ratio of the square of the goes to the square of the ratio of the distances. So if something is four times further away. Lightbulb hundred watt lightbulb place one sending distance away take another one and move it four times further away. The one that's four tenths further will appear to be sixteen times fainter the one that's close ranks of course stars get to a certain brightness the tip of the red giant branch stars get to a certain brightness and no brighter and old stars especially get twisted rightness and no brighter. And so you know. How do we deal with this. Because or radian drama does get spectrum. Individuals stars able we talked about earlier was based on years of hard work with one of the world's most powerful telescopes and spectrographs combination. So you make the things. Sixteen times fainter and it's hopeless so we said we need a new technique. We need a new technique. And we're gonna use what are called Fluctuations to do this well selfless. Yes so i have a quick question digest so the The gallic seed cephus small. Is there any relationship between sort of the distribution of the size of the stars and the size of the galaxy in other words do expect dwarf galaxies to have smaller stars. No we don't we expect them to have the same makes stars that we see in the coun- what determines the mix of stars mother age of the population rather than the size of the host galaxy. Bearing yeah okay and so so. You're talking about surface brightness so so the surface brightness is just a term that means per unit area if you look at a certain path to the sky let's a patch that's the size of the full moon you can ask what is the brightness of stars within that area brightness unit area where areas measured in square degrees or square arc minutes square arc second brightness per unit area is whatever's so one of the very interesting things about surface brightness if you have if you take a galaxy and you move it you have to galaxies that are say twins of each other and you measure the brightness by unitarian one you take the second galaxy a new move it say four times further way as i said each dr sixteen times fainter in that contest galaxy but but unit area on the sky this sixteen times more stars in distant galaxy because of a particular patch of the sky corresponds to a fall by four times larger area in that modest galaxy those to affects exactly cancelled so the surface brightness of these are independent of that distance if you have to galaxies that are identical and one is further away than the other that's efforts brightness was still be the same so that's hopeful moral i did Provided you so then you look for the way you have launched Isn't that sumptious that the galaxy covered sedalia. Exactly it has long as we're talking about a unitarian that's within the galaxy. You're not going to agree that too big to be to go into the outer if you're looking at a particular and it's really thinking in calculus terms it's sort of. It's deep brightness. The area so in the limit when the area goes to zero in that limit of calculus where your brightness per unit area within the galaxy doesn't change as you move further with but what happens is when a galaxies closer by there are few as you think of it as a pixel a give pixel corresponds to a much bigger physical area in a distant galaxy than it does in a nearby galaxy so it's a balance of two factors if the galaxy that nearby the fewest odds within one pixel but each is writer then the galaxy. That's further away. There are many more stars pixel would each star is proportionately tate and so so so the frustrations in the greatness that that gives us some insights that fluctuation gives us a lot of insight. Because when you have a lot of stars in a pixel you don't expect the fluctuation to be large just percent fluctuation which is square root of n. Where n is the number of stars squid of in skins to be damped down. When you've got a lot of stars in the pixel so the more nearby galaxy is the greater the amount of fluctuation from pixel to pixel because you know in one case the you could have three or four bright stars in pixel in the other case you've got a hundred bright stars in the pixel and so pixel there's not much variation so we these called surface brightness fluctuations just from Still steak counting stars within pixels these a much more prominent as you. You know the in the most extreme case you can see the individuals stars but if you can't you can t see these fluctuations for picks up to insult and that's what we were able to see in ngozi forty four forty nine and be trained our telescope to point act some of these upward fluctuations where most than average in a and b be so he said okay each stars too faint for us for almost awful telescope but we'd go to the pixels where nature has gathered a few stars for us. We'll go to only those pixels by this has happened. We'll take that spectrum will combine them and we'll get an average spectrum of bright stars in that galaxy and we use that to and we're able to measure the velocity of that galaxy and be able to show that this remains the cannibalize remains of that galaxy are indeed associated with nbc. Forty four forty nine. It's not something in the background of phone calls. It's moving at the same speed as nbc. Forty four forty nine smoking at the same speed and so the same technique also gives some idea of mentality it does. It gives us a sense. Of how chemically enriched or not and we found that this system was relatively chemically anemic consistent with the fact that the system that had been swallowed the galaxy that had been swallowed by he forty forty nine was not a very massive galaxy it was an even smaller dwarf than nbc. Forty forty nine. You have under the people here. I just wanted to touch on touch on it quickly. The you new boots so tell our mass stellar mentality relation for dwarf galaxy so data said That is a mathematical relationship that you can derive more of an empirical energy american relations. People is led by one of my former students. He wasn't my phd student for new wrote this paper but he was my phd student before that at santa cruz in kirby led this paper and what he did was a team of us. We had a student who had contributed while she was a high school student. Should contributed to the altar on this paper. So what evan did. Group of us did in that paper to look at the chemical composition of stars in a whole bunch of galaxies in the local group. These are small galaxy that are orbiting andromeda small galaxies that are orbiting the milky way and we looked at the average chemical composition of stars in a galaxy on the y axis on the x. Axis was the mass of the galaxy that these stars living in and we saw very clear trend. This trend has been known about for a while but we saw we were able to extend this down to relatively low mass galaxies and we saw very very clear trend. Yeah yeah and so so so in conclusion. I want to ask you so you do a lot of work. In the eighty s galaxies and their composition of their progression any debt. gives us some additional insights into this nagging question of. What does doc matt red blood. Alcohol data is distributed indirectly. Yes what is our what we are doing here. In the studies of galaxies in the local group andromeda away and satellites is really looking at the assembly process. We're looking at. How galaxies get assembled and this assembly is mediated by the gravity of dark matter in these systems whether it's the gravity of the wolf galaxy that's falling into andromeda or the collective dark matter of andromeda itself we are looking at the gravitational effects off the dock matter because it's those gravitational effects that are moderating these galaxy collisions and mergers. It's moderating how much material is lost from galaxies during supernova explosions. So we are studying dark matter through. Its gravitational effects. Which is you know. The primary way in which people studied up matter in astronomy is through its gravitational effects Any of the techniques us any Any higher position of the mass of the star or that is not really needed. The mass off the stars that are yes. I'm just wondering so. Given if we have a higher position of the mass of the galaxy and mass of the stars but apps it gives us A better view as to how dark matter might be distributed but i guess the already have techniques to determine the masses. Will you know you've hit the nail on the head actually for these low mass galaxies. They are more and more dark matter dominated. That is When you go to galaxy like the milky way or andromeda they contained matter but when you go to these galaxies they are very inefficient Farmers of stars so that ratio of luminous matter. Stause say to dock matters very very low so they very that ratio of how much luminous matter to dark matter there is is a measure of how efficiently the system has formed stars and dwarf galaxies. Generally have you could see a very low ratio of the so called luminous barry onic matter to dark matter wanting to array low efficiency of star formation. So so we don't know what dark mattress but dark matter cast gravitational effects correct right and so wouldn't be expect just like the supernova you know basically Getting all the materials out of the dwarf galaxy wouldn't expect because of the lower gravitation. I'm thinking about an andromeda. The loss galaxies around. That wouldn't a dark matter gravitate toward a bigger bigger galaxy on the if it came to close so the hall andromeda is disrupting stars in the dwarf. Galaxies exactly what it's doing to the dock matter in these dwarf galaxies also because it's a purely gravitational process so the dock matter in the small galaxy and the stars in that small galaxy being affected by the same title disruption. We talked about festas both the dark matter and the stars in the dwarf galaxies that are gradually getting incorporated into the bigger andromeda galaxy through these cannibalism events so it is eating a visible meal and adopt meal at the same time every trade and so says the concentration of dark matter in a galaxy is not necessarily a function of the the mass of the Off the stars in that galaxy. Is that a gun extent. I would say that When you say concentration you mean how much dark matter there is. Yeah it s. I guess it has to be a relatively original Right no there does seem to be a trend. The lower the mass of the galaxy the moore dock dominated. It tends to be at least from a racial perspective so dark matter over. Frequent matter is exactly the fraction of dark matter in low. Mass galaxies is higher than the fraction dark matter in a big galaxy like andromeda. So that's interesting so dwarf. Galaxies could be a better lab forest to study. Doug matt in fact they have been excellent That's why they've been off. Such great interest. Strenuous is dwarf. Galaxies are some of the best places to look at concentrations of dark matter and one of the things people have been interested in. Is that galaxies out there. That are completely doc. But there have informed formed any stars at all. Can you detect it through their gravity. This is sort of one of the open questions in astronomy. Rate played. Excellent this system. Great roger thanks so much for sick time with thank you thank you. This is a scientific sense. Podcast providing conversations bit leading academics and researchers on a variety of topics. If you like to sponsor this spot gassed please reach out to info. At scientific sense dot com.

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179 Black Entrepreneurs Matter / Women Entrepreneurs Matter w/ UCSC Prof. Robert Fairlie

Christopher Lochhead Follow Your Different™

52:30 min | 1 year ago

179 Black Entrepreneurs Matter / Women Entrepreneurs Matter w/ UCSC Prof. Robert Fairlie

"Thanks for pressing play. This is Christopher lockhead folly are different, and this is our second in two part series aimed at shining light on two of the seminal problems stemming from the C. Nineteen crisis. That in my opinion are not being talked about anywhere near enough and that's education and entrepreneurship. Last episode, Number One, Seventy, eight, we had bestselling author of a great book called what school could be his name is Ted Inter Smith. And he's a big heart guy with some great ideas on how to turn this challenge potentially even into an opportunity. So if you haven't heard Ted on episode one, Seventy, eight, check it out. Today. Rob. Fairly and he is a professor of economics at the University of California at Santa. Cruz he's also a researcher with the National Bureau of Economic Research. So I think safe to say he knows what he's talking about when it comes to the economy and he's considered one of the United States is top experts on small business. Of, late, he's been doing much fascinating research and in my opinion, very important work analyzing the impact of the krona virus on small business and black and women owned businesses. Now, before we get to Professor Rob off the top I also WanNa say a deep deep heartfelt. Thank you to everyone for your notes of support on. Over email and over the social web And I just want to let you know that our family is struggling right now after a horrible accident, we recently lost my brother-in-law Michael. And they don't make better men than Michael Foreman and he's a father and he's a husband and he's a friend and he's a son and he's fucking awesome. and. We are trying to figure out how we move forward. So if I haven't gotten back to your note please forgive me and please know how much your love and support means to me and frankly our family. And you know as a side known I've never had an experience of being any kind of public person. before becoming a writer and a podcast. And it's been a little strange lately because I had to face the wrath of many given my public position that we should listen to the experts and where are masks. And we certainly lost listeners Fr because of that. and. Now, I'm experiencing the flip side of being a somewhat public person, which is the love and support of many of you as we have dealt with this problem so I gotTa tell you being a public person is very strange but the kindness we've received late is very appreciated. So thank you. All right again, a professor Robin I go deep on his seminal research on the impact of the krona virus on entrepreneurial businesses and the crisis the that is horribly disproportionately affecting entrepreneurs of color and women. And frankly, I. Think it's unconscionable that this topic has not been more important particularly in the mainstream media. If we want our economy to be strong and come back. We need strong entrepreneurial and small businesses. This crisis is affecting those businesses horribly, and if we want equality injustice, we need entrepreneurial equality and justice for Black Brown and women owned businesses, and that's why I professor Rob's work is so important and I think you're GonNa find this a conversation enlightening empowering and if you're like me angering go to Lockhead DOT COM L. O. C. H. H. E. A. D. to check out the show notes and get more on Professor Rob's. Research we're sponsored as always by my friends at Oracle net sweet the world's number one cloud business system at net sweet dot com slash different that's net sweet dot com slash different and my friends at spunk help you bring data to everything visit sp L. U. N. K. dot com slash Di the number to the letter e that's spunk dot com slash D to e and if you care about marketing or growing Your Business Check the number one marketing podcast lock on marketing wherever you get legendary podcasts now heyhoe let's go. Talk? I've been consuming a bunch of your stuff and your research I find it fascinating and not only do I find it fascinating? I find it incredibly important because it seems like the areas that you focus on or at least some of the areas that you focus on. Are Not being talked about not being reported at anywhere near the level certainly I think they should be. And so I have zillion questions for you professor but I'm curious you know where would you like to start? Just Kinda give some context for the research that I've been doing. I've been working on these topics about all. You know small businesses especially racial inequality in small businesses. Since my dissertation. So for many years, I've been studying different aspects of it access to financial capital. Impacts that the great recession, for example, trying to look at one of the factors that. Determine success or or less excess among small businesses and started working with a lot of the data that the census, Bureau and the Bureau of Labor Statistics Produce. And I was able to get data extremely fast and analyze what happened to small business owners. You know very early on in terms of you know what? The impact coke nineteen. So for example, the first real impacts were felt April, and I was able to get that data at three weeks later. And so one of the real problems we have as kind of academics researchers, and even all see makers is that often data's just not released quickly. Writes a year two years. So by the time you're writing a report or paper that provides a policy recommendation. It's already dated, and that's just not. You know that's just not acceptable with covid nineteen right? We need to know right now what's happening? So researchers went out into their own surveys and the problem there is you know everyone so disrupted, they're not in their offices their businesses might have been closed that phone there is not working navy they're answering her cell phones maybe they're not right maybe they're being. In. So what I did is I thought you know what I'm GonNA use most credible data set off. Oh, which is from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which measures the unemployment rate in focus on small businesses and so. That's kind of the context for what this new project is doing. Well, and I appreciate your research very much. I think it's incredibly important. Now you you pick up the news today and you see. Holy Shit. GDP is down by about a third. I'm reading that, right? Yes. Professor. Yes it's. The largest that we've ever seen and. I've been around for a while. My memory says in the past when things were quote normal. If GDP went down a few points in an unexpected way, we would have a reverberation in the stock market that was immediate We might have a reverberation in interest rates and other various components of monetary policy. If we had a several point drop in GDP that was unexpected. It would be on the cover of the Wall Street Journal. Policymakers. Business. People. Entrepreneurs Bankers Etcetera Etcetera. A few few points a drop in GDP would be a big news and we just lost a third of the economy. Is Shocking. Still confused about the stock market. It definitely shows up in the kind of research that I'm doing. So among small business owners. We saw dropped from fifty million active business owners in April all the way down to. Twelve. Million three million drop as twenty two percents quarter of business owners were enacted in one month. To give you some perspective on that. The entire great recession lasted a little over a year and a half. We only saw five percent drop over that entire year and a half period. In the number of active business owners in one month in April we saw. A twenty two percent drop. So that's one thing and then the other thing that I study is unemployment. The employment rate is just shot. We've never seen anything like that jumped fifteen percent in one month. and. That's a conservative measure, the LSS same. Oh, maybe we're not measuring this correctly because a lot of people misreported how you know their labor force participation. So they're saying that it could be more like twenty five or thirty percent. And that's something we've never seen either before that's much higher than the great recession so. There are some measures that are showing. This is true I I. Agree with you that we you know this is just not talked about enough. Now. The GDP numbers that just came out I think that's going to be a real. I'll her and we are going to start talking about a lot more I think that reality is now hit right and that maybe the numbers that sort of pushed us over the edge in terms of okay. Now, you know we need to be realistic about what's happening right now. So to that regard in that regard professor, there's sort of. Multiple things. But the first two that have been in my mind that have been sort of driving me crazy that I've been very much looking forward to talking with you about. and of course, I'm not the economist you are I haven't done the research you have done but I've done some reading and I'm trying to pay attention. And so I see two things I. Want I'd love your reaction to get into it with you. Number One. In, much of this discussion about justice and civil rights and police brutality and equality for people for black people and people of color. For me anyway. There's a giant missing component which is black entrepreneurs matter Brown entrepreneurs matter, and if we want to make a difference in equal rights and justice part of the solution is empowering entrepreneurship got thrown out of school at Eighteen I had two options a manual labor life or start a company. And so for me, I think like many entrepreneurs entrepreneurship was away not just a way up. And so I'm frustrated that we're not hearing more about entrepreneurship. In that regard. That's kind of big bell would love to drill in with and then sitting next to that. Is. I'm worried about women, women, entrepreneurs, and our mothers overall the gals at I talked to who are moms. Are telling me that roughly they have twenty five percent more work load kids didn't do anything. This summer Many of our kids are not going back to school this fall, and so at least my informal survey of the moms in my life, they've been telling me they feel like their workloads increased twenty five percent. And then I read in various places in the media around job loss and and small business loss with women, owned businesses and women jobs, and some people are starting to call this a she session. So I'm just curious whether it's black and Brown owned businesses, entrepreneurship and employment. And the same thing from a woman perspective what your research telling you and I I'd love I'd love to know everything you know about those topics. Can't? Well, that's a lot. Of questions right there. It's hard to be able to answer them. Quickly while the good news is we we could take some time and get into it. Good. That's great. I mean, these are very important topics and I agree with you that there. been talked about much less than a lot of the things going on. I think there is starting to get become more attention focused on the business side of it. The importance of business owners not only do they create a route out of poverty or a non alternate? For income as you're mentioning, but they also create jobs right and so there's been a fair amount of research showing for example, that African American owned businesses create jobs for for other African Americans and a make sense right these are local small businesses there in those communities those communities then I'll are where the employees are, and so that's really important. Right that that's can be a big aspect. Professor, you know I've been consuming a bunch of your stuff in preparation for today I thought I heard you say on I think it was a youtube video or maybe something that you wrote that the data shows and it seems intuitively obvious. But the data shows that black owned businesses are are much more likely to hire black people round people. Women owned businesses same thing with women etcetera, and that's what the data shows us. Yes. Yeah. So that's what I'm referring to is said black businesses are more likely hire black employees. Certainly immigrant owned businesses are more likely to hire co ethnics or you know. kind of like the next wave of immigrants coming in, and so let's go with ethnic professor starring. Yeah. That's a bit of a technical term. So Immigrants Coming Forum Korea for example, then you are very likely to hire and a more recent immigrants. Your neighborhood or who are you know not looking to be come up business owner themselves. And Job, and so you see a lot of that where it's kind of the same ethnic group is hiring the same ethnic group and you know there are a lot of reasons for that trust language And also the community right live in the same community. Out But there is becoming more interest and a focus on. Link Buying Black Movement. So that's one of the ones that's really kinda come out of this. Is there are numerous web pages and instagram cushions and things like that that that of creed lists a black owned businesses and local communities where you go and shop. Some for example, You know you can easily pull up one or where islands. Santa Cruz and look at you know here all the black owned businesses You know when you can look at it by restaurant or buy whatever kind of store you're looking for in what makes it very easy to search And I know that a lot of you know celebrities are starting to post this like beyond say has something now even has a record that she created not a record of song right that she created road she's using the proceeds from that song. tell black owned businesses says she's providing ten thousand dollar Krantz. You, know Magic Johnson came in and put a lot of money towards black owned businesses. Minority owned businesses in disadvantaged communities, and of course, there's a whole range of government programs out there to do the same. But I think that this is attracted some attention, maybe not as much as we need. But certainly, it's been discussed. had US switching over to the female question which I think is a really important one. Is there has been some new research actually with a couple of co-authors to try to deal the more work on this. This shows that mothers are definitely taking it disproportionate. It compared to fathers in terms of reducing their hours work dealing with children with home care. And and this isn't just evidence from the US this is evidence from a lot of countries around the world. And so that that's a huge problem. Right? Women have made so much progress in a labor market although. Many people argued, it's kind of stalled out recently but this certainly not going to help Mrs. You know this could be kind of lingering problem that we see in my data like the business owners. What I found is among female business owners twenty five percent were inactive in April relative ury. Bigger drop than for men. So male owned businesses was a twenty percent drop. So again, you see disproportionate impact. part of it was that female owned businesses are in industries that were impacted more. So they tend to be personal services which were shut down because of health risks. Another issue is that female businesses oftener smaller scale. So they don't have the resources or maybe as that franchise kind of corporate headquarters to come in and say, Oh, this is what you need to do to face all these regulations for seeing operating or here's how to use your drive through. Restaurant you're driving more efficiently and effectively. Whereas those restaurants or maybe the small bakeries or whatever. Those are not set up as well to do right there local they don't have that corporate resource franchise to be able to do it and I think that's another major major problems here. I'm just worried that this is getting increase racial inequality gender inequality, and it's not just going to be a few months as we deal with covert, but it's going to be longer term kind of. Me Sending back and not that's a bigger much worry and so if we think about some of the key measures that learned economists. Look at you. Of course, there's GDP growth overall for the country and the world for that matter there's job growth there's new business starts there's all the metrics that you use to look at health of small and. Mid Sized businesses warnings I'm always curious about is what's been sort of growth or lack thereof in patent says as an indicator of some some level of innovation and where's that coming from best to my knowledge approximately, half the patent applications come from a smaller or newer businesses as opposed to major fortune five hundred types. and. So as you think about those sorts of critical data, it appears the data's telling us the. There's a big bifurcation between big business and small business and cut owned businesses and businesses owned by people of Color, and of course, male businesses, and so could you sort of? Is there any more of that data that you'd like to share with me so that I can begin to wrap my head around sort of the scope of these issues? Can Talk a little bit about the findings from you know one of the papers that I've? were. John has gotten a lot of attention in the press. I found is that February April I saw forty one percent reduction in the percent of African American business owners that were active from. Let me make sure I understand that professor from February to April forty-one percent became an inactive. Yes. So that means that the business owner do not put work activity into that business meaning that not working on it. Doesn't mean that they're permanently closed. It could be temporary closure. But it certainly is telling in the sense that if it's forty one percent for African Americans and it's in comparison seventeen percent for for white business owners, there's a huge disproportionate impact is happening. We'll sorry professor. So the number a black businesses is forty one percent for white businesses is seventeen one seven. Yes. Only ship professor. This is you know partly because of the industries in also partly because as I mentioned the skill of the business, he could also be location. Right there are a lot of factors that are contributing to this but you know it's clearly very worrisome. If these business owners are shut down in April Then, those business owners using income and they might also be losing the employees that they have. Right. We know that there's been a lot of struggle with the program. Got It in the fact that. You know it's mostly businesses that were bigger than had established connections to banks. In those are not like the smallest business owners. Those are often not the small businesses that are home by people color or by women. And that's also another problem and it was you know an outrage that we found out that the los. Angeles. Lakers Scott one of those people wants businesses. And a bunch of other organizations now, they did give it back. Right. There was such a public outcry baked to give the funds back. But she shows you kind of these inequalities that are. The kind of creep up here and there are important right as we were talking before you know these. Black owned businesses create jobs for others creating comfort the owner. Important, they're important source. No thumb. Up you know inequality or equality. In the economy. Yes. Yes very much so and and the numbers. Are Shocking May and more surprising. I mean maybe I wasn't paying attention but more surprising than e even I would have thought. And what do smart economists think about how the next six to twelve months are going to play out both at a high level in the economy GDP etcetera etcetera and then. Per this conversation, what's your best educated guess is to? It's January. First and we're looking back what happened with black-owned entrepreneurial businesses what happened with female owned businesses, etc.. Gone. Kind of the positive side. I think there's a lot more public concern. Now there's a lot more. Awareness on customers that where they purchase goods and services matters, and that that can really help. There's a lot more awareness from private companies like for example, Google has a new program to really help provide assistance and maybe have more contracts to minority owned businesses. I think there's more awareness of the among foundations and private companies. DOTS he's fall I think on the negative side. I was just looking at this yesterday, the number of. Cohen. is so much higher in July and it wasn't June the that that's just incredibly worrisome, right? This is not going down at all, it seems to be going up. In. When are we going to get this plateau in starting to decline again after that initial declining out and then it started going up again and? You know this. This kind of uncertainty is never ever good. For the economy that site, the number one factor right is run. surtee creates lots, lots of problems because. You know people are not willing to invest not willing to purchase. They're not just jusque frozenness. kind of ranch into the economy I heard also from the Bichir, the federal. Reserve Board. that he doesn't expect unemployment come down very quickly and I think he was even saying nine to ten percent rate, which is the peak of the great recession was ten percent unemployment. He's saying that's likely through the end of this year maybe in January. That, that's a pretty slow recovery. obviously worrisome. GDP we have a good sense of how las that's GONNA turn around. I think we're going to see some. You know really really low numbers for the next couple of couple of quarters. So there was some talk a little while ago in this crisis that. You know yeah, it's bad but we're GonNa get our Hanlon, are going to get our arms around this thing, get a handle on it here and and the economy's GonNa come roaring back that America's just waiting to get back after it and there's GonNa be this real sort of elbow type curve that's GonNa Happen. And so what's the curve looking like now and what do you think the curve's GonNa look like over the next six to twelve months. That's what we were hoping right this. So so-called v-shaped recovery. and. When is that going to happen if code cases keep going. It's not going to happen now is going to take awhile in. So instead of it being a V, it's more like a I think. A COP. I don't think anyone can honestly tell us when this is gonNA turn around. I really don't I. Don't think there's economists that knows I don't think there's any government officials. I think that people aren't being extremely optimistic and maybe they're right. Maybe we will find it vaccine tomorrow but it's it seems kind of unlikely. at least that's what health professionals are saying. I do think that once we do kinda recover from Kovin, it won't be a normal recovery seeing the great recession that took as many many years to get employment backup it will be faster. Yet there's kind of lingering effects from it. That's probably going to be the case I think that one issue is. Customers are shifting over from. Purchasing a lot of their goods and services from local businesses and doing it on the Internet and I think they're becoming more comfortable with that. Then I can kind of a long term restructuring our economy. Instead, it could turn out that we see a lot more consumer behavior on the Internet. And loss in kind of local stores, and that will have impacts for workers that'll be a lot longer lasting overseeing in. The next year two or three years. Nothing I wonder about I was thinking about this this morning I got an email from a dear friend of mine who's a realtor here in Santa Cruz. And he was making the point that Essentially, prices are up in Santa, Cruz, inventories down and sort of in his world amongst the realty community. So to speak here in Santa Cruz. He's beginning to believe were were were on the front end of a of a societal shift as people more and more people who are knowledge workers don't have to go anywhere anymore or on a much more limited basis. That places like Santa Cruz I have another dear friend WHO's a realtor in Tahoe he shared with me professor that even before the shutdown happening California, his phone was ringing off the hook. and. So if you look at the area that you and I live in, it feels like again I'm not an economist, but it feels like we're having a move away from San Francisco rents are coming down away from Palo Alto Etcetera Etcetera and moving to smaller areas like Santa, Cruz like Tahoe where you can still make it to a meeting in San Francisco if you need to go every once in a while and maybe there's a quarterly landing off site or whatever. But for the most part. If I don't have to go to a meeting on a regular basis kind of F- it and let's go live near the beach or let's go live in the mountains. Sort of what what are you seeing about this trend that it appears to be going on here? Yeah. I think that's you know this is a really good point right I. I was talking about this shift in customer behavior and we're all becoming more comfortable. You know. So my elderly mom now is doing you know purchases online. I wouldn't have thought that you know three months ago. Major purchase link constant purchases is she getting good on Zoom facetime and things along those lines as well? She's also doing zooming face. Yes. Yeah. Wait another big surprise to me in how there's definitely some positive so that she's You know she moved here from Canada and she can connect with her relatives in my family members in Canada and she hasn't been able. To. Do that right hasn't been all senior faces in three or four years since last time she flew out there. So you know there are certainly benefits and I think that this idea about increased telework or increase kind of remote work is definitely happening and it's to be a long term effect from this. I was actually just talking to a friend the other day. Who lives down in Connecticut and he was saying that where he is kind of along the eastern seaboard but north, of New, York City. Then a lot of the house, there's like a housing boom. They're also in the sense that you know on what you're describing where house prices going up inventories during low. And he said, it sounds exactly like what's happening out in Santa Cruz where people from New York City want to move out right they they want to leave their or like a second home or something where they could potentially remote work remotely and live in a place that's right on the ocean writer at least on Long Island sound yeah and so I think it's probably happening in a lot of other places around the country It's interesting though because you know we don't hear that much about it, which is I was surprised by that. You know we had legendary venture capitalists, Mike Maples on not too long ago and he made an interesting point. These are the entrepreneurial community in in in San? Francisco in Silicon. Valley, which is those of us in that world, which is the world that I come from. We've spent better part of thirty years trying to make bits, go viral right the the biggest success you can have is a viral product and as a marketeer myself, I spent a lot of time thinking about this studying this thinking about what causes it why it works what doesn't etc, etc.. And so many of us have made at least part of our living trying to figure out how to get things to spread very quickly and that the we had. Brad, Feld on recently, another legendary vcu has got a new book out and he was talking about how the Biology words and the technology words are blurring emerging. You know this sort of. Contagion in the tech world is a good thing and of course, in the real world is a horrible thing and so anyway long story longer professor what what Mike Maples commented on was. People in the technology world started exiting Silicon Valley very early because they understand sort of the exponential power of viral network and how it can work. and. So it it you know I talked to my friends in San Francisco and they say that it's a quote post apocalyptic environment in the city right now. And so. Am I wrong in connecting the following dots if that's going on not just in San Francisco but in other cities across the country as well, and of course, the civil unrest means I don't know about you but. I sure as hell are aren't a not moving to Seattle anytime soon and Portland looks insane to me in Chicago looks scary and and and and so. Sort of the thing I'm really worried about. If some meaningful percentage of businesses owned by people of Color are urban and not suburban or rural. And there's this quote poke post apocalyptic situation happening where we're seeing unprecedented drops in rents in real estate in San Francisco, and increases in Renton real estate and places like Santa Cruz and Tahoe and I've talked to. Franson. Idaho and Utah, and in Montana and they all say virtually exactly the same thing. So I I don't have the data in front of me, but it's it's surprising to hear all of this and so. I guess my question is how much worse just going to get for small businesses. that. Are owned by run by people of Color in our country. That's another good point. You said you know what? We're talking about this movement from. San. Francisco to Santa Cruz or New York City to these. Very expensive suburbs along that long island sound. In Connecticut. Is that these are highly educated people money. This is not you know come the norm and that's another thing that shows up in the data if you analyze it is that. The. Individuals were able to kind of keep their jobs, the least impacts on unemployment or even not like small business ownership. Were highly educated consultants or accountants lawyers right. They were able to continue working. You know you hear a lot about like dentists had to shut down but they still you know they still have their business and they still customers and. You know but a Lotta, like really small restaurants or small shops that you see in downtown areas. Those had shut down completely and we don't know if they're going to come back. We don't know when customers feel safe enough. To come back to these areas in start shopping in. Levels to bring them back plus if you're losing two or three months of revenues and you still have all of your expenses on your equipment in your building. Iran and your mortgage, right? What's going to happen in terms of bankruptcies to fall mortgages to fall on loans? That does kind of another issue. So I, worry that that you know we've already seen inequality increase. There's lots of information on that. There's lots of new research using really really nice. Interesting useful data to show that. But. It seems to me like this is. Creating even further divide, right highly educated people can now work remotely they can work wherever they want. They can kind of improve their quality of life. They don't have to live in downtown city areas as much. Maybe they can live by the ocean like in place like Santa. Cruz. But that's just not the case right for most in America most of America. Is has jobs where that's not you know they can't just move that job they can't do it remotely. If you. Are you know working in a costco? You have to be there to work in that you know that essential business right is providing food. If, you are small businesses that does cleaning services, will you still have to do that work is not going to go away. It doesn't just do you can't do it on a computer through zoom. Put it that with I mean that's the best way to this is what can you do on a computer and what can you not do on a computer? And there are most jobs, you can't right. You have to be somewhere to do most jobs, right? Exactly. You have to do something physical you have to be with other people in some collaborative way. What percentage of our economy Professor Rob is is a service based job. I? Don't know Bait if you look at small business owners. I I don't know the exact number, but I'm going to say it's three quarters are. You know these very physical things like construction bray again, something that you can't do sitting here. Late you know we are looking at a computer right or off you know are listening on our phones. Criminal Services clearly you know these kind of smaller scale types of business activities, restaurants, stores, shops, Barbara Shops, things like that. they're huge portion of small business owners that that's kind of linked at main area that the exceptions are you know the professionals? High or lawyers creative types of one sort or another. Yeah. Creative types to you. But that's a relatively small share. Look at the entire country. Right? We get a bit of A. A work view living in the San Francisco Bay. Area. Or even living in, you know some kind of wealthy areas in big cities and we don't see like all of these other types of small businesses and what a major proportion of economy that they represent in terms of numbers in terms of dollars. Yeah. You can kind of see this and say, well, the you know tack industry these financial industries have a lot dollars. But that's how people right that's that's money. That's. That's The stock market valuation is that what we really care about or do we care about people and. So you know I think that that's a huge Shimbun distinction and I've been reading some spooky things have seen projections all over the place particularly with restaurants. And I'm wondering if if you can maybe shed a little light on this, but I've read things anywhere from twenty five percent to fifty percent of restaurants are not going to survive this denny of those numbers sound right to you is that could that be true. It's possible as I mentioned before I think in one can really predict this accurately at this point. It's pretty disturbing that you know in the data that I collected that basically we're seeing this big draw in those industries it at. That represent late restaurants hotels. Barber shops things like that. They were really hard. Again they're kind of slow to kind of rebound from this. It's hard to not win a permanent closures can come from. San. Businesses. Inactive. April. And it rebounds partly. Providing takeout in May and then June starts to open up shop by putting some tables outside. Right. We don't know those three months of really struggling. You know we don't know a couple of things first we don't know what's GonNa Happen Oaks going to have the data July we don't. Know. What's going to happen in the future in August and September? And then we don't know are they gonNA be oldest survived that in terms of getting loans or savings or other funds to be able to make up for lost revenue and continuing extensive face? Roseau I don't think there's any way saying that twenty five, hundred, fifty percent at numbers craft or not. It definitely could be in that range while. and. So of course, all of this behooves some big questions about. Okay. So what can we do about this stuff and I understand we're dealing with the virus and that's GonNa hold some of these businesses back in some of our economy back and. Maybe, not a lot we can do about that piece, but there's obviously some things we can do. So united started like to tackle it both on the individual level. What could I do as somebody? WHO gives a shit? Who loves our local businesses you know when I found out for example, that Gildas on the war was going to be shutting that's upsetting to me right that MRS has been here for over one hundred years in his a wonderful family business in Santa Cruz, and that's happening everywhere and so. Let's first talk may be on the individual level for those of us who who WanNa. Make a difference in maybe can, and then of course, it begs a whole set of questions around policy in the election and so forth. But what can you and I do as people who care about? Small businesses businesses owned by people of Color businesses owned by women. And I think that. Shop locally think been really important fact helping these businesses out at the same time being very safe about it. So I know like this seeded California, has a new the governor's office has a new. Slogan this shot shop locally and shop smart, right. So in other words, you know really helps support these local businesses, but at the same time be really careful right where face mass German you can to reduce the spread of Kobe nineteen does seems to me fundamental. we need to get that under control and we're going to have to all kind of agenda do save behavior to try to get to that point, offering our hands, using sanitizer using mass. All of the things that you know that are out there I think also we need to at some point, resist the temptation to purchase everything on behind through large distributors. You know at some point we're GONNA have to really -CCOMPLISH back in that and say, Hey, I really care about having vibrant downtown. Fun To walk around downtown Santa Cruz, it's fun to walk out on the wharf include all these different restaurants see all these little shops. Will lose. If all we do is buy online. So there has to be some valuation that in our minds that it's important to us, and it's nice to be able to walk around these little shops. In so we're GONNA need to purchase them yes. You know maybe that's not right now there's some safety issues especially high risk person for Co nineteen. But at some point, right we need to do that when you take make kind of a a concerted effort to do so by local and be smart and try not to it's just you know. Folks like Amazon folks like instant cart and so many others have made it so easy to press a couple buttons and. Boom sort of magic happens in incredible product show up from space. Delivered by Star Trek transporter almost instantaneously. You know like I think about you know one of another beloved business here in Santa Cruz, the the book, the Bookstore Downtown and. You know we want that bookstore to thrive, but you know I live on the east side and you gotTa drive downtown and you've got you know. To your point if you don't do that then. How how the hell are they ever GonNa make it yeah. Exactly and they have. A lot of these small businesses now are starting to set online. And as he's full writing like Saito shops web page. there. I I think that they will mail it to you or maybe just drop by pick it up some stores also of kind of like creative outdoor cable, and you just show up and you just say this is what I need. And they'll do that. So there ways to do it in kind of safe way and do it locally instead of doing just online shopping. Yeah. But at the same time, you know I fully understand if you're elderly and you're really worried about getting covid nineteen. You can't blame someone for doing that right I. mean this is unprecedented time unprecedent health risks. So I sort of see both points on. Yeah, I mean. I don't know we're trying to walk the line I think like a lot of people are right where we don't do things unnecessarily out in the world. But at the same time, this shit started in in February march. It's a long time to be sitting in your house and to not go for a walk or enjoy the beach or go for a bike ride or so I think we're all trying to figure out how physically distance being the world. support our local businesses my wife and I go to the farmer's market that seems like A. If, you're going to go out and buy things in the world at least you're outside and you're supporting all these wonderful local farms and bakeries and such but it is tough to find that line isn't it professor? Is. Now, I'm curious were in this election year. I I'm not a member of either party. I look at it and I go. You know we have a president who at least says he's an entrepreneur because this guy clearly. And I don't hear him talking anywhere near enough. For my taste. About entrepreneurs and small business is. And we have a Democratic candidate who I don't hear really talking much about that either and so. You know I'll just say it the way it's in my head if it's even if it's inappropriate, I'm kind of fucking pissed off that the the plight and the success of small businesses, entrepreneurial businesses, and startups. Is Not more. Centered in the conversation whether it's around black lives matter. I think well, if you say black lives matter than black entrepreneurs matter, right. And same thing for women and you over and over and over again and so I guess with that all that said professor Where do you think we stand at the policy level at the elected official level? With understanding of these issues and with taking appropriate effective action to make a difference in these issues. I think we need to have a lot more discussion and attention drawn on this. I've been trying to analyze GP loan data. The data for all five and a half million people loans that were distributed. So I was going to win analysis to see you know what's the? What were the allegations across racial groups found out that the federal government even collect the data? There's no information on race. So I looked at more carefully and I thought, well, there's gotta be something in your. What I've found is that about ten percent of the loan data that a half has race. So I looked into this more and what I found is that they had asked banks to report if they wanted to. So we find is that there are several banks almost always report it. And a lot of banks don't report it because they didn't know if they had to or or weren't. You know like it wasn't something that they even saw as something that they need to do. That that's pretty disconcerting right that we don't even have kind of information on this huge program we're spending six hundred over six, hundred, billion dollars on it, and that's just now we don't know what the future allocations will play. So it's kind of frustrating. There's not more attention to you know doing this doing it right measuring it carefully. Validating that we did it. Checking afterwards. It has an impact. it's quite surprising. Yeah I'm also really pissed off about fifty two that we just have not figured this out. You know. Maybe. Ten years ago or so we were talking a lot about. You Know Wall Street to main street carrying a lot about mainstream the kind of. What we were trying to save is that we do care about small businesses Now, that was a very different time when you were doing reasonably well, and it was just more. Concerns about wall, Street and concerns about the great recession. Now this much bigger hit clearly. So you think that this would be even more in the public discussion there the policy discussion in our political figures would. Bring this up constantly. I don't know what to say on it. I. Agree I. Yeah. This really angers me. and. So what would you like to see a committed citizenry do as it relates to let let's call it influencing. Put it nicely. there've been a few points of late in my life where I've body slammed some elected officials. But let's just call it influence to do the right thing to focus on our small business to focus on urban businesses that may be getting severely damaged by this and an understanding that from February to April seventeen percent of Caucasian owned businesses went dark and forty one percent of black owned businesses went dark I mean I don't know. I don't WanNa be overly dramatic but that sounds like a fucking crisis inside the crisis to me. How do we get engaged with elected officials and or want to be elected officials in this election to try to surface? These is as a critical topic in the campaign whether it's at the local level here in Santa Cruz with the city and the county whether it's at the state level in California, our case, and of course, there is this thing going on called the federal election coming up in November? That you know the key things are one shop. Make decisions about shopping where you shop who you shop from. all of that obviously is important and of course, the health concerns. You don't mind and then to definitely right You don't numbers of Congress, local officials in express your concern. And your desires to have the government actually do something about this and talk about it in collect the data properly and and and be aware of what's going on and then threes. Kind of the obvious fun ride is is go get out there and vote maitree vote and look at what the candidates, how they represented, how they discussed the what they're promising to do. That's hugely important. You know don't say you don't want WanNa vote because you don't agree with either of the candidates definitely find out which one is more kind of supreme your views and do it well, that sounds like very good advice professor. Is. There anything else you'd like to touch on before we wrap nine that we discussed a lot of issues well. I really appreciate this time with you tremendously and even more than this time. I want you to know rob. I, deeply appreciate your leadership in this era, your research in this area I wish this was getting about more I care deeply about these topics and it makes me happy to know then alerted man such as yourself dedicated such a big partyer work to gathering this data and trying to put it into context in China, light for US and So thank you for this time and thank you for your spectacular work. Great. Thank you for finding me to talk with you about this important topic my pleasure. Well I. Sure. Hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did, alright we would like to thank the legendary rob barely professor of economics at the University of California Santa, Cruz thank you so much professor rob and I also want to thank Lisa Nielson at UC. S, C., for helping to make this episode happened. Thank you so much Lisa. My good friends at one life fully lived other nonprofit help you dream plan and live your best life checkout the. Number one life fully live dot org my friends at Trinet WanNa help you conquer your category. They've been building legendary to websites in Silicon Valley for over Twenty Years Checkout Eight, T. R. E. DOT, any team my friends at Bonnallack WanNa help you scale you with the power of distant assistant checkout bottleneck dots online today. All right I need to remind you that this odd cast is the sole property, the lockhead odd cast network, and we deeply appreciate your shares. All rights do remain perturb. We must warn you clearly this odd cast gets graded in the studio that does contain nuts remember black entrepreneurs, matter and women entrepreneurs matter. Support, your local businesses and your schools. By John's crazy socks listened to the FOO fighters. Please tell the people that you love in your life that you love them one extra time for Michael. Thank you, Candy Dandy I love Your Mom and Dad and Hey Colin this odd cast really ties the room together doesn't today our deepest apologies to carson sweet CEO cloud passage sorry Carson. We just ran at a time for you. That's it. My friends. Thank you so much. be good to yourself. Take good care of your loved ones and on tour together again, follow your different.

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EP 26: A Day in the Life of an Interpretive Naturalist

Breaking Green Ceilings

1:05:54 hr | 1 year ago

EP 26: A Day in the Life of an Interpretive Naturalist

"Welcome to breaking green ceilings the podcast that amplifies the diverse voices of those who committed protecting and sustainably managing our natural environment I'm your host sup no Mulkey let's get started. This is probably one of the most interactive interviews, but I've had so far and when you listen to it, you know why so we're talking to Jeremy Lin, who is an interpretive naturalists for the California State Parks in Santa Cruz, and what does interpretive naturalists? Do you ask? So Jeremy. Works with all age groups to help increase a curiosity and appreciation for nature through interactive educational techniques and she took me through some of his quizzes joining this interview, which was Super Fun, and I think you can also very easily. Play along. So Jeremy also manages several park programs, including nature education volunteers, and infrastructural and long range planning programs. Another interesting topic we've covered with Jeremy was the value of volunteers to the park system which has been part of his Masters Research. I had no idea how much the park system relied on the help of volunteers to help maintain the parks and through our discussion I learnt about how volunteers play an extensive role within the system that has very limited resources and personnel. So the Federal Agency has over twenty thousand. Employees and two hundred and fifty thousand volunteers. These volunteers give up one of their most precious resources very time and we talked to Jeremy About his research on this topic and how he looks to engage volunteers more in the future finally, Jeremy Talks about his experiences being a first generation Chinese American working with California state parks, and what he's done and seen to improve diversity and inclusion within the institution. Now, you may remember we had a similar conversation back in episode four with our Guest Jack Shoe, who is a? Retired Superintendent, and also from California state parks, he was the State Park System in California for about thirty years. So it was really interesting to at Jeremy's experienced this larger narrative of diversity and inclusion in the park system, and I hope that it will help you understand better what are the unique experiences of employees in the California State Park System? Definitely, it's not a full story, but it's a story that I think is worth sharing. So I hope you enjoy the quizzes and I hope you have fun with this episode. Thank you so much for joining us on breaking green ceilings. We'll get started with our first question here, which is how did you experiences going up shape your perception about the natural environments will first off I'm really happy to be here on breaking green ceilings. It's my new favorite podcasts out we I've been listening and have a lot of amazing guests to end I love your format in your questions and the whole premise of gas. So good job on you for doing this is I haven't seen anything really like this. So some really unique and really awesome. I'm going to China. So like insulate my ego years. Let didn't play a little bit. You feel good. I. Just want this podcast just for this and then you gotta get. US. It would take to ride just for this one. Okay. Well Great. Thank you for having me. My name is Jeremy Lin I'm an interpreter for California State Arc's I am really excited to. So the first question you asked about growing up and how that has shaped my perception of the national environment. Grew up in New Mexico more my parents would have bed and breakfasts and the mountains in Taus I remember getting sunburned wall exploring trying to find pottery shards, the native bribes they're made a lot of pottery in the southwest and so. We go through these CACTUS fields and find like all these pottery shards. Now's really try piece together in like, oh I think I made one full bowl out of all these like. So I spent some time outside and then I moved to Albuquerque New Mexico where I just started skating every day I skateboarded till sunset I still have bruises and like like dense in my if you run your finger up my shins, you can feel like the defense of me scape- escape or hating my shins and stuff. Yeah. I definitely still have some lingering injuries that still persist because I just like Ali Loading, docks and like seven steps and like kit was kicked moving down things I was deep I was heavy into skating and I didn't really care too much about the environment at that time to be honest it was just like recreation outdoor stuff I, became really interested in the environment when I went to UC SANTA? Cruz. So my family moved out to California went to UC Santa Cruz. My housemates were obsessed with backpacking and camping and hiking, and I was like kind of new to me. I didn't really do much of that. I was all like skating. On. A springboard diving team was pretty athletic. And once I started packing with my new housemates in friends it was on. That was like the moment. I was like this it I want to be spending time outside. And then I started studying environmental science and a took classes had outside like in the field. The entire time is one class natural history field quarter. At UC, Santa Cruz was amazing. Basically camping outside with a group of experts early and go burning and we do herpetology studies identify plants, and then we'd do some just relaxing nature observations, General Natural History Geology, all the different fields, animated campfires at night, and we play music around the campfire like every night, and that was a game changer for me. I started playing guitar around then too. So that's. Kinda I'm just like a debrief little run through of just my experience outside in and how it shifted to an environmental study focus. Yeah that's such an interesting and fun sticky. Thank you for sharing that. It sounds like you're though but if a late bloomer when it comes to the environmental or getting onto the environmental bandwagon by the same time, not so much because you were outside and interacting with the nature a lot while you were growing up. So ensure that had an impact on you are going up and even later on in your. Life. So what was it about being out in nature and interacting within that made you want to pursue a career in it. I think it was something equalizing about nature where you really highly stressed. You can get relaxed by being out in nature and if you're very. Sluggish sure. Feeling kind of lazy or lethargic is the word I'm thinking. Of you go outside in your explorer, you get the energy from it. So it's I think it's like the ultimate equalizer no matter where you are. In your life there are things that you can benefit from by going on a hike or going to the beach or taking time observed nature, and just relax in nature I. think there's no matter where you are who you are anyone can benefit from Maine and that's so true I. Think for me at least I walk my dog twice a day and even though sometimes our roots may be repetitive through the neighborhood. I feel like I. Always noticed something new like a tree that I did it before or listening to a new bird t-o-n that I didn't notice before. So it just feels like a new experience each time and it's rejuvenating and humbling at the same time because dog I think she's a blue lacy is what a big told. Okay, and she is the state dog of Texas. So she looks Mike Proud over here. softener represented excess. No that was not intentional. She was a stray who I found out a water treatment plant in mcallen. Texas which is in South Texas is just doing some work. But yet, she looks like a silver lab and marina but smaller little small just like art medium sized against. But yeah, she's definitely got Texan attitude were she's out there. She's feisty and she has her own personality like carries her own and just killed quite a few things not to say the Texans killer this. She's willing to stand her ground. Yeah. Yeah. Can't defend her independence. To not be treading on and indeed the lone ranger. There she goes. Yeah. Sight enough of my puns but. I like that. One thing that you mentioned earlier on our when you're introducing yourself is that you are an interpretive naturalist and from what I understand is within that role, you get to educate the general public and in particular children or youth about they importance of nature. So tell us a little bit about who an interpretive naturalist is and how do you go about capturing people's attention so that they're intrigued by the environment and want to do something to help protect right on question. Yeah. So interpreted Nashville is essentially brings people out into nature and I guess interprets what's happening. It's not the best term to be honest interpreter people language interpreter for California State. Parks. Of Spanish or what's up with language So that's the best term but it's a fitting term in that I making things accessible in nature to to the general public? And it's really dependent the people that we have coming to the parks. So the first thing that we learn as is to make everything that we're teaching relevant to our audience. So understanding our audience is number one where they coming from education level. What's their interest? What do they WANNA do out there? How can we best make use of their time out there? What are things we can talk about that are messages from California, state parks in our mission statement but that also interesting to whoever's coming to the park to the public I think the best way to capture attention really is just be real with people. The traditional way of interpretation picture ranger standing next to a campfire with this flat hat. That's just like lecturing talking about nature. That's the traditional, a standard interpretation that everyone pictures and they think about the park system national parks state parks yeah, we're moving away from that. So we're moving more towards is kind of largely interactive model where people are participating in nature exploring and playing an active role while. Observing different plants, navy doing citizen science things like identifying different endangered plants or different species that are concerned or just interesting to catalog. The different species we have in our ecosystems of challenging both did not only be part of the program actively engaging with the program in learning about the park system, get some of them being dependent upon me. Alright. Only just explain everything for you while you sit there. are here's a magnifying glass gears binoculars. Let's go in this together. Let's go online some salamanders, news reptiles and go in folding study the biology of these animals as were there together I think he just being real and being a person I think sometimes, there's this wall that's put up of just like this stoic epic Park Ranger that kind of have these I'd Ilic. And are accessible their help on his pedestal. Yes. I think being real with people talking like a person to I have faults and personality traits in likes dislikes and I'm doing the best I can. I think getting on people's level in being real them is the most important thing that we can do as. Parks People Rangers, INTERPRETERS Anybody just to kind of relate to people. Okay. I'm doing these quizzes to really engage people and I've got one for you. Do you. WanNa do is. Operatives Trail Trivia pop quiz superfund you want to do is one of these. So, this is kind of an example of having been engaging people recently, recently Earth Day thing. So as live streaming from California state parks, facebook statewide interviewing different interpreters, the park staff all across the state, and is a climate action was the theme so. Of model a little bit of one of my interpreted the I think that's one of the better ways to communicate this kind of models. So in the spirit of the fiftieth anniversary of Earth Day, I want demonstrating setup a delivery of this trail tradit his. So talk about climate action in the need for climate action, and the Caribbean islands are prime examples of regions of the world that benefit from immediate and comprehensive climate action. The Caribbean islands are increasingly susceptible to environmental changes such as sea level rise hurricanes longer dry season's shorter wet seasons without. Proactive Action Islands like the Barbados will see, economic environmental and health challenges. Now, one of my favorite musical artists Brianna is a barbadian singer actress and businesswoman who's been recognized for bracing various music styles in reinventing her image throughout her career. So this quiz here is called Riana or piranha as fish. So what's going to happen here? I'M GONNA say a statement and stop now you got answers fast you can A. Sixty seconds on the clock here this ten questions and six seconds per question. and. Statement and if it has to do with Riana, you say it has to do with Piranha you say Piranha and this is a spirit of climate action bringing awareness to the needs to do climate and Rana is representative of some of the Barbadian culture. So we're going for this thing you go. On the fly. Riana or Piranha. And Cala Barnea state parks often described as extremely predatory when absolutely slaying the music game in rb hip hop dance. Yes. So liberated for developing skin tone, inclusive makeup line for all people of all skin tones. So we. Yes was an army cadet in the military program in Barbados. Brianna. Yes can tear apart the entirety of a cow's flushing our on. Yes recently, donate a two million dollars to protect children suffering from domestic abuse. We all know. Yes produces. One of the most forceful bites ever measured invertebrates Piranha. Yes recognized in the media as vicious and violent hunters of the Amazon Basin. Iran. Famous for their tightly packed interlacing blade like teeth. Yes, witnessing exorcism as a child. Yes once called the most ferocious fish in the world I president Theodore Roosevelt. Yes. Yes. You made it. Okay we. Got One hundred percent hundred percent right there. Boom Riano Piranha. Thank you for playing. Talk. About now is awesome. I enjoy that and I was on my toes here. That's exactly alleged things about the piranha. I think have stuck even though I was receiving the information when he fast, it's all about the transition into it. So let's why kind of model the lead in talking about climate action and then making some relevant pop culture, but then putting people on their toes so they're like. Got My heart go like your heart was going a little bit. You're like me. Yeah because like then it gets people like all they're involved with. With this, and then within this larger context of climate action and is the fun way to think about the people who represent some of these countries. Now they're like, oh, Barbados is affected by Climate Change I. Love Riana Huma Her culture young people must be dealing with some stuff. Then piecing things together, it might be abstract the women describing this thing but I hope that there's some kind of connections being made. Yeah. Out attacking a lot of things all at once. So where did the Piranha think come through? Is it just because beyond that Purana? Right? Exactly yeah. mean. I'm thinking about this too much. That's great. I didn't think we've ever done like a pop quiz in the history of breaking green ceilings. I have one more for you the end. Advocating forward to it. So. One thing that you mentioned earlier on in terms of sort of the persona of the Rangers being one who is stoic core kind of like unreachable in a sense is I was just thinking that could it be because by the uniform helps identify them as part of the park system, but it also kind of creates the separation between them and us to think, yeah, I do think the uniform challenge especially when reaching out to nontraditional arc users, call them people who don't usually use the park and they go to the park and they see someone in uniform uniform looks like ice. A. Cop. Looks like people that are enforcing potentially immigration. And a lot of communities are used to being treated certain ways based on where they live or what they look like. And so just the emblem of the wearing bare patches on either arm and the uniform itself looks like law enforcement. So there's a reticence for certain communities to engage with the park system based purely on that symbolism and the uniform. That's a challenge we overcome in. I lead a lot of backpacking trips. We do backpacking trips through the park system in uniform and reach out to underserved communities. We call them equity and access trips. So folks who aren't traditionally using the park system, we partner with different communities in our area and bring them on backpacking trips in supply, the backpack supply, the food, all campsites come. Up with, Curriculum Forum do meetings beforehand to get them frontloaded. So they're ready to go mentally and physically go on these trips. Make sure they're all equipped and it takes a lot of effort in a lot of time to break down those initial walls because they see me in. They're like, I don't want to hang out with this guy this guy's in enemies might be guides. The person that I want to spend time with because I'm suspicious that this person is not a treatment or something there is a lot of stigma. So. There are ways to break down walls to break down those barriers in breakthrough. Feelings to be able to engage a lot of people. Who might not initially want to be involved Park System and. You know I really didn't think about it until I asked that question and I think for me my experience with the law enforcement is different here in the US I've kind of seen law enforcement Moore's they protection but also at the same time fear but not the type of experience that some other Brown and black communities have interacting with law enforcement. So thank you for sharing that I. It's not something that I thought about very deeply at till now. So when you're interacting with people from underrepresented communities, are there specific things that tell them to reassure them that? Hey, I'm not here to arrest you just here to capture your curiosity for nature yeah and we talk. About, that the most important thing we can do is actually spend time with them. So they can see that for themselves and not just trust the words of a we're just friends here right let's go backpacking together. We're going to spend like three days straight together and you can see how interact with you and the environments in the group, and they can actually see that. So I really have a lot of respect for these programs like the Police Activities Leagues Boys and Girls Clubs Partner with law enforcement or other different organizations to really spend that time together and I met a lot of really great officers in law enforcement folks in Rangers, and we spent time with the community. And will go on hikes will hike with them and have launched them have pizza altogether and hang out for all day. To build that relationship I. Think it's that physically spending a lot of time. With the communities in with these organizations that's GonNa break down these barriers not just saying, Hey, we're friends we support you like they're actually has to be physical interaction brain extended ears time for them to feel. Okay. Near each other right it's that effort to build that relationship with community and get to know them, and like you said, have an interaction, but it's a two way street. And I think it also helps to humanize the person who's wearing that uniform so that they see the person not ob as like a representation of the institution. But also that they are people who have feelings and that they have families and such such interesting. One of the things from this conversation that I wanted to ask you is one of the things that. The. National. Park Service is trying to do is they're trying to increase representation of different communities into these natural spaces. Are there any specific efforts or rather the question is how do you do targeted outreach to these communities so that they're interested in coming into the parks you mentioned the programs but how'd you recruits these people? Yes that's a great question and oftentimes it's Coming up with personal relationships in these community leaders that really binds are organizations together and create partnerships. For instance, I work at Rancho del Oso, which is part of big basin redwoods state park in Santa, Cruz and so near my park, there's this little town hall Davenport's beautiful coastal part and the Davenport Resource Service Center is funded in his operating to. Provide services for lower income folks or people who art gaining a lot of benefit from other community services. So it's really there to rain, and so I've been able to meet these people personally because we're physically close to each other. And a make connections with the director of the Davenport Resource Service Center, and their employees because I see them sometimes at the par or just in general area see each other the post office that we get to talking and we start building that personal relationship between myself and the leaders of these communities, and that's the foundation for which plan build these trips and build these connections with their use and with other members of their community. So really think that they're. GonNa emphasize it again I think there's gotTa be prolonged physical interactions with these nimble super hard now that there's the code nineteen like social distancing shelter in place. But I think the any way that you could actually interact for longer periods of time across communities. That's really where the main partnerships are able to be built and there's reaching out we'll reach out the title one schools that are like free and reduced lunches in California's. Schools Cataracts title federal thing but will actively reach out to schools that have predominantly lower income suits and we'll say, hey, teachers, we wanNA. Fund your hair to the park will pay boss. We want interact their kids. We do these virtual field trips these distance learning field trips were I'm like kind of like now on like in front of I've had and I'm zooming into him or face allied in them like, hey, how's it going? Everybody welcomes overhear you how many questions my name's Jeremy here's my pet snake bite. That, you could see the Oh my God. Oh if you WANNA come to the beat my snake that's great and then all of a sudden, there is a connection that they have. They ask me questions. Hey, how old are you or whatever I go I am like we like answer and became connection through technology, and they physically come to the park in a moment to get the bus they're like, oh, it's Jeremy. We Know Him we've been excited about we've met I know last week over in. So dinners that actual physical connection between myself at the par representing Park System in this community that doesn't really engage usually with the system and then boom were connected and there's a meaningful connection and it's not just this come the park. Welcome you. Okay. Great. How Fun you know it's like it's bond. It sounds like a very purposeful and intentional. To create the bond that you just mentioned. So one of the goals that you have is to create that bond. Are there any other goals that you have in mind when you're interacting with students or with adults and are the goals different based on the demographics or the age groups? Yeah. So I talked to Jack Shoe on the phone for awhile off record him on your podcast. Shout out to Jack He is one of my heroes and he's not connecting ask questions Jack is a former superintendent for California State Park System in San Diego. And he's a career parks prison. He's amazing chinese-american. MAZING guy. So we are able to connect and we were talking a lot about the different philosophies of providing programs to different people and there are certain ways to. Have it overall philosophy and focus for different groups. One of them is a natural resources centric bogus for providing services. So that is people come the par- and you're entirely focused on talking about the natural resources leave no trace ethics, chrome clean, and Natural History and conservation and sustainability in the history of the park system. And then another philosophy for educating folks in interpreting is a community centric and that's where you're looking into the community to see what their values are first and more designing your curriculum, and your focuses on what is important to that culture or that community. And I would argue that we like to do both within the State Park System Newsworthy folks protecting our natural resources or also making it relevant to the communities and the different individuals that So different age groups, different people I tend to start very slow with getting deep into the nature facts and science I like to welcome. Everybody's the park, the maslow's hierarchy of needs. If you're aware that make sure that the you'll save they know where the bathrooms are. They know where the exits are water warm the got everything they need. and. Then starting to build with fun activities those bursted safe. Then it's fine. We're doing playing games were enjoying a hike or joking around. And then I hit him with all that science they didn't notice come in like. This is great. This is school. This isn't heavy. All have just casually this amazing, and then I'm like who was talking about like niche theory and stuff like that. Let's talk about keystone species in EGO system function. Only realize they're like, Oh my God I learned so much. I didn't even know. So I think. That's the progression first safety in it's fun and then they're just so naturally curious about things it's not even really meet teaching them. It's damn kind of polling information from me and me guiding their curiosity to understand nature better. You have this personality and this energy of an educator you just I'm just imagining even being likened win a few. I'm just like, oh. My Gosh I need to joy dim. Have, you always had an interest in wanting to educate and I don't know just how this kind of personality where you want to build a relationship with people and educate them at the same time. How does that come about always like the little leader of my group of kids of friends growing up I was the oldest I have a little brother had neighbors living next door and then across the street and they had multiple kids in. So it was like I was kind of like the ringleader. Say What's aiding all right now we're GONNA go explore this area. Let's go do the trampoline gym next laser tag. So it's kind of like me learning how to starting to kind of a young age. We're credible at the last key family my mom worked her butt off. So shout my mom shots, amount Oh, my God shadows. MOMS everywhere yeah. Your mom everyone's mom. So. My mom was amazing in supporting us. Then she's also very ambitious professionally and she went to medical school pretty late in life. She was orchestra bought off supporting us. My parents were separated. My Dad was living on the East Coast reliving New Mexico and we've got latchkey kids. So we knew how to cook our own dinner sat like h thirteen and stuff like that. She was around like office looks was a check on us. You'll be with us but there were some occasions where we Would have to be clean house in making sure everything was in place for mom home is you Centaur like consistent? So I was able to Kinda of lead our little group of people who support them and be how loud outdoor activity in a lot of fun games have always been kind of a very social person working with people since I was really really young. And I'll always a wild little hyper add kid. It sounds like he were directing that into constructive activities bike skating. Humid, so It's understandable. So you're in the California State, Park? System. I shouldn't make it sound like your institutionalized or something of that sort. You want to progress within state parks and your experiences are unique to you obviously, and we mentioned Jack earlier on who was a guest on bringing rain ceilings and key had an experience of over twenty nine years working in the state park system and from his experience he said that while the State Park is well intentioned, they're still overcome main as traditional racism, which is you know he saw that as a challenge for the three decades he worked. At California state parks. Now everyone's experiences are different and I wanted to know what your experience has been in terms of feeling included the great question. Yeah. I have a lot of respect for Jack Shoe he's my personal hero. He's became rose up the ranks to become superintendent, and that's my goal. Professionally, I would love to be Superintendent of one of the twenty three districts within California State Parks Park System is spread into twenty three geographic ranges or districts. Jack Shoe was the superintendent basically the ultimate boss dude of one of the districts. Yes. I'm very impressed by his career trajectory in his knowledge in experience. Does talk a lot about institutional racism use that term I definitely noticed that state parks might benefit for more diversity within both of the staff and volunteer base and participants and visitors of the park. System. I personally haven't experienced discrimination however, do notice that there are a lot of opportunity to include more diverse staff that's more representative of the different cultures, different perspectives that we have in. California. I think there is a need for that but personally, I haven't experienced over racism or that type of I guess anger or hatred directed at me or people of Color in my limited experience within the park. System. And trying to go back to my conversation with him and he did say that it wasn't necessarily virtual but it was sorta flake a cultural assimilation where you had to choose between the dominant white culture or your own Canada he called it a home culture, but that's something that I think is not necessarily just unique to state parks but just in any organization that has a dominant culture, right? He settles it's not necessarily. A bad thing as in the culture of an institution because that's what crowns institution and so sort of like if there's a leader who's implementing an extreme policy once they leave than the institution will revert back to what was it doesn't necessarily change according to what that person implemented. So it could go both ways essentially and I think based on what I've read online. About National, Park, service, and diversed inclusion. They are recognizing that they do need to have a more diverse workforce and they do recognize that they do need to help more diversity into the national parks. So it's not like they're blind to its I. think that's a good first step. Yeah. Absolutely and I want to give appreciation to state parks and a lot of the partners. For creating these programs that are really geared towards increasing diversity in access in the state park system made and one of these are the ones that I was talking about the Kids Park Program repay for buses from the title wants accusers. The biggest obstacle for people visiting parks is usually the cost of transportation to get their. School, field trips because go in there at home, and so there's a lot of amazing programs are increasing the equity and access programs similar to the backpacking trips that lever reaching out to this nontraditional park using user communities, underrepresented communities yeah. There's a lot of really positive headway. Being, made exactly I. think that's sort of the takeaway for me is that as an effort that is being made through the programs that you talked about and Rome wasn't built in a day. So it's going to take very many years to sort of unlearn an undo some of those harmful practices or systems that have been put in place over several decades right? But I do appreciate the effort and I think the state parks system is sort of integral and critical talk community as a whole separately to appreciate it. So one of the things that you are. In terms of career progression is that while you work at the state parks, you also are in Grad school and you're focusing on evaluating the impact volunteers serving in public lands, which I think is a very interesting topic. Would you mind telling us a little bit about why you're interested in the impact of volunteers on public lands and why you decided to? Cut a used Grad scores away to focus on this issue grave. Yes. Wonderful question good news I am graduating at maximum. Defense was approved. Might Pieces paper was only approved? Congratu is smooth sailing paper, some formalities and okay degree gone so. That's pretty good. Will I've got a question for you? So you have a favorite park or greenspace. Gosh there's so many. Yes. I do picture that in your mind and our audience to audience picture your favorite par- greenspace reelect ago in your mind. Now, think about. The different needs that space might have in terms of if the trail leads to be maintained if trashy cleaned up. If. There are any species of concern flowers or different animals that are protected. If there's any catastrophic natural disasters that come through windstorms or bloods, who's Kinda, give you fixing that? Are there any rules? Enforcement can people just camp every anywhere on the trail? So the reason I'm bringing this up is there's just a ton of management needs for our green spaces and our public lands in this country. And about sixty to seventy percent of our lands are publicly in the United States whether that's like a national forest or a state parks or National Par Bureau of Land Management Department of Interior Horror City. Special station parks. The sixty to seventy percent of the land in the United States public land. So with all those Brana, picturing our little spots that we like to go to on this broad scale, there are tons of parks and public lands that need management. As who maintains that space? Which Agency organizations are actually protecting the natural resources keeping it accessible maintaining the campsites tacking up trash may be putting potty in places that need. The that. Yeah. So I truly believed the future of our public lands are green spaces are dependent upon the communities living near and around those parks. So I think that it's up to the community really to play an active role in serving sustaining these parks, and so that's a pattern that's persisted within the National Park System and definitely California State Park. System. Just, within the Santa, Cruz district parks, thirty parks some of them are beach units we have different hundred parks we have about seven hundred and fifty long-term both ears. long-term throughout the year seven, hundred fifty, and that's not including the short-term were project volunteers. So we've got all these volunteers that are taking care of many aspects of the park system. Visitor Services and trail maintenance and habitat restoration. Tons of things are being done by volunteers in when I saw this, I wanted to study exactly how they're impacting the public land system in a lot of that's not really being measured or taking into account in these large management plans that are happening on a larger scale. The long range planning documents aren't really. Taking into account the impact of volunteers have I thought. So I went dylan interviews I did a lot of surveys and found that the volunteers are having major impacts on our public lands especially, the California State Park System. So i. just felt that was really important to document that in some empirical studies that happened to with volunteers of public lands, a lot of studies about volunteers in hospital settings in administrative roles in foodbanks endings that. But there are surprisingly few studies on how volunteers interact in impacts the public lands. So publishing my paper pretty soon and really the crux of it is just emphasizing the role that volunteers playing in emphasizing that. We really depends on volunteer service for a loss of the healthy functioning operation of the. Yeah just think about it. You have limited or finite budget. and. You can only employ such number of people to protect or to take care of the public lands that we do have. They're obviously not going to be enough and so yes, depending on volunteers to help be a part of that I guess community it makes complete sense because they're all in tier. So you're not necessarily paying them but they're providing you a Labor of love innocence and they're helping fill up the gaps that the National Park Service sometimes cannot fill. Right. Absolutely, and it's hard to picture them having additional stimulus packages to support public lands in this environment that we're in right now like especially with Kobe are we're going to prioritize protecting your glands another looking for lucians they're supporting the people that really need to survive amidst this. So it's hard to imagine that in the future, there's going to be all these stimulus packages that are benefiting of land. So I think now more than ever it's important to. The work volunteers doing in also support there were volunteer work. There's a saying that we have in our system. There is free like lunch and in there's free light kittens, and so some things are free like altogether free lunch y'all think that money grant or whatever. Like that's free this great but freeway kittens and I'm paying cap. Names Potato. Just. It's a very, very cute name. But Free Kittens. You can take a kitten for free but that has allowed implications for the cost of up even taking care of kittens in shots and food and shelter. So volunteers, I don't want to really compare them the kittens too much. But in this analogy, big might be compared to pins in they need management, they need training, they need uniform siege, learn how to use the tools they need to force. If they run into issues, they need to get support from the park system back them up at an encounter negative encounter with a visitor they're primarily positive counters what I found, but sometimes, there's macy's that arise in working with people in the park system. and. So really, it needs to be baked into the budget of. Incorporating volunteers as part of these management plans. Now. That makes a lot of sense I look forward to reading your paper. So. Now that you're done with Grad school relations again, it's a feat that you've accomplished I was running on fumes towards the end of schools. All. Right yeah. What did you study sustainable international developments of course you did. Awesome. Yeah. Good Times. But now that you've graduated and you're also still progressing in your career, what advice to you give to have other people who are looking to pursue a career in education or an environmental education because That's what you do and also just say working in the park system. So is for folks who WanNa ball with in the environmental. Field Yeah. Thank you have any specific advice as far as like your your expertise goes one of our talk to young people who are in high school and college I always tell them to get internships. That's what it tastes really now to accelerate think in any field I'll make that argument I think in order to really get a leg up in most fields. Getting internships and getting positions of responsibility even part time jobs when you're still in high school in still in college are extremely valuable because once you are ready to graduate, you actually have this work experience and references most importantly references people you know are really important to giving you that boost. It's actually getting a paid job in the field of your choice and I think that's very true in the environmental field because some of the stuff is very specific if you are able to get an internship, say at a farm. Or Garden than you understand the natural processes in biological processes of growing food in the operations, you can understand that. So once you get out of college graduating, you have this direct job experience that you can. List as a reference lean on to actually get you into the job market and internships are just like like the day I mean. For all them but. If you're able to get a really sweet internship and you make a commitment to being there working really hard. It is rewarding and sometimes life changing hide this internship on. Rose taking care of ducks and chickens and pigs. And I gotTA press wine. They had like that little dangerous. So was like using one of those old school wine presses. Is Big like wooden barrel things that are like seven feet tall with the big metal ratchet and I was like ratcheting down we filled it up with all the great. Ratcheting down in all the break juice lime just like filtering out of the size into this big base. put him into wine bottles and that was an experience that I would love to even have now. And I'm not in a position to be an intern and that's there's an opportunity costs for sure you could be hanging out with the homeys he could be doing. Spores Sports. You can be going on dates or whatever you can do all that too. But I think carving out some time to get experience in different fields to help you figure out which direction. WanNa go is extremely valuable. oftentimes yet to get like most jobs, that's what I have to do at a college. I couldn't just. Have One job now that I can just on summer job. It's like no. I have two jobs at least till and unlike side hustles going on. To be able to make ends meet by doing what I love to do. So I think the current job market might benefit. Workaholics for people just like are are able to do a lot of different things and work a lot. So maybe adding onto that is learning practicing ways to decompress for stress because I think the human is an amazing animal who's able to go to really high stress things and then through mental work and through awareness body and self, you can calm yourself down to really get the rest you need in sometimes minimal amounts of time. I. Mean we definitely need plenty of rest be healthy. But I've practiced being able to do crazy things like lead backpacking trips viewed as very intensive people in nature physical activity and then coming home and meditating a little bit and having practice where I can bring myself down to more center place it that's valuable for being able to do all the work that I just told everyone to do. Yeah. Yeah and it's really got to be purposeful. You have to make that effort to to center yourself. You have to make the to find those internships. That's one of the really good advice that I. got from US and or spe- who's also your adviser for Grad School. She told me earlier on just get as many turn ships as he can and don't be. Kinda. Idol during the summers and I think and volunteering that definitely helped build character resilience and helped me get a better idea of what I wanted to do. Once I graduated shout outs in. Ormsby Chat House and I think you're you're figuring listen to this one. So we just WanNa love for you and thank you so much and allison connected us to believe, right? Okay. Yes. So People Allison Allison, you are amazing and we love you and wish you the best. Thank you and she was also guest starred breaking green ceilings a she was a part of our launch group and I think that. People like her I consider them as just strong allies who are genuinely committed to the success of those who their mentor. And she's been sort of like my guide even after I graduated it's been almost fifteen years and we're still in touch and we presented at a conference in Kentucky like two months ago. So she's always Looking out for me I really appreciate that. She's like my academic mother. No the what is. I think people like that are fundamental to your success, and now you have Jack Shoe, which is awesome. I'm so glad I was able to help get you to connected and I think now as you're looking to make your way to becoming a superintendent having jacks experienced to kind of not necessarily emmy to just inform you on how you can make your own pat. Think is critical for the end of the day. So hurry well, we are at the point where I just shoot some questions at you. It's sort of my version of pop quiz. One more for you if you're into totally. So this is the lightning round and skin series of four questions and the first thing that comes to your mind. please. That's right. Well, you don't have to have an answer, but it'd be nice. All. Right. So what have you badge heard or watched lately that influenced dated okay. person that comes to mind is the rapper Lil dicky put out this video and song called. Earth. And I enjoy this for a few reasons one it's like you're really catchy song to he incorporates pop culture ideals into a climate action message. So it's really enjoyable to watch even being like all looking for like a deep heavy message about how I can like save the planet. Yes. Enjoyable for that way, and then if you really look into it in here, what he's talking about is all positive about saving the earth. Bill De. Yeah. We'll include the links in the show notes. The other thing is this book that I'm telling everyone about and. Some people are sick of hearing you talk about it, but it's book called Eager. Surprising secret life of. In why they matter by Ben Goldfarb Ben's writing is just like poetic, but it's also based in empirical studies in science and essentially beavers are the architects of North America and the populations are dwindling in. We support their populations biodiversity will increase water storage will increase through the dams. Ecosystems will be healthier. You have these keystone species surviving more. We need to bring back the beaver nephew Ben? Strapper Ben Goldfarb. Read that Book Be. Eager. Surprising secret left beavers eager beaver. I'll definitely that to my good reads list call me when you read that we can talk about it because okay, Jj, we'll do. A what is a personal habit that has helped us significantly in your work I brushed on this briefly, but meditation is really important to me personally with the high. Stress of everyday life just living nowadays I think stressful even trying to wake up in the morning. Yeah. Like get out of bed. Is. Stressful. Even like trying to buy down go to sleep it's the stressful is like so much doom right now. So I think that consistent meditation practice is really good and I want to specifically outline the pasta meditation. As by S N Glinka I've done most ten sits Al-Salam Meditation in several three day sits a meditation in principle of Steve Meditative practice. and seeing yourself and the world's kind of more realistic lights of more objectively. Instinct positive through that in understanding what power you have to. Make positive changes in your life is a really great apple insight apt to feel no stress lie down on the ground on your back and play like one of these like five to ten minute sound clips with someone like reading poetry or like talking about empowerment kit. That's a really good one to for people to help. Calm down and relax and see the light. Of the channel Yes, it's What's the best piece of advice you've received? I think the best piece of advice recently from Jack Shoe. When we talked, we have really long conversation and you brilliant. So he was talking about just out the state parks system can act people and being very intentional about how we go about interacting with folks. And so his whole thing was measuring output versus outcomes. So a lot of jobs, a lot of professions. There's a lot of focus on output where you're like, okay we need to produce this product. We need to have these many things. Available is our service that we're providing. We want to have a lot of output, but most importantly for the park system in what we do in public lands engine. Is focused a lot on what are the outcomes were looking for. We can have a lot of output we can have all the space we have all these programs but if we're not thinking about how our programs are output is actually affecting, the people were aiming towards and looking for these outcomes of changing people's perspectives welcoming people into the park system increasing access increasing awareness than our output is not as powerful if for not taking into account that larger picture. So it's been on my mind a lot ever since I was speaking with Jack is not only on output, but thinking about the outcomes and results of what were producing what services will provided. That was something that really stuck out to me as well especially. From a background in. in research and development where we measure the impact of our projects and we've created you know metrics for impact and we often use the word output for sure. and the outcomes just takes A to. A deeper level I feel where we're actually looking at what is the impact of our work? Is, does. Our intention translate into the reality that we want. And I think that's Especially Run event for the state parks. because. You want to create value to for people to want to protect these natural spaces or maintain them right. And you also want them to or communities to grow from interacting with natural spaces. So sometimes, it may seem like a really hard way to quantify the outcomes. But we we should at least try so Thank you for sharing that. So the final question here is, what is your superpower superpower? Well, I think recently I've realized by superpower might be ability to improvise adapt especially with changing systems within the park system adapting to shelter in place orders and Kobe mitigation stuff adapting our programs to be able to still engage with visitors and people on using technology for that. And I also recently got a new job where I'm going to be adapting and improving to a new job. So literally just was offered this position accepted I'm moving to Lake Tahoe area. Let's Sierra district state parks have a promotion managing more responsibility in the interpretation in education fields in the Lake Tahoe area state parks, imaginations I think one of my superpowers ability to adapt to new situations at least I. Hope. I. Haven't been there yet maybe on jumping the gun on this one. I think I'll be able to adapt well to a new situation. Able to continue to provide services to the public. Yeah I think so too. That's wonderful news. You've been giving us lots of wonderful news dog. So we've reached the end of our conversation here and do you want to do the pop quiz now or do? Okay. Right now. Okay. So give too much of a elitism. This ensure educates about salmon. Saying officials in the Stream. So this game here softener is called Salmon or Samuel L. Jackson Samuel rocket is famous actor in many movies snakes. Snakes on pain. Okay. So you know all right in salmon are the family of fish monitors that live and spawn in streams and go to the ocean, etc. Okay. Salmon or Samuel L. Jackson sixty seconds on the clock and Cala. -fornia. State parks played the French Horn and trumpet in middle and High School so. Guess eats insects, plankton eels, squid, and shrimp. Salmon. Became Vegan for four years for health reasons lost forty pounds back. Jackson. Can Jump Twelve feet out of the. Water. Salmon. Agreed to play Mace Windu in star wars before even reading the script Samuel Jackson. Yes. May Lay up to five thousand eggs while spawning salmon? WHO said in our struck down upon de with veggies and? Why is it destroy my brothers? Checks. Migrate to the ocean and back to freshwater as also called anadromous. Yes can swim up to thirty six feet per second seven. Yes. Held Hostages College's board of trustees demand school policy. Reform. Semioli. True, that's crazy return to the same stream. They're born to lay eggs salmon. Yes. Majored in marine biology and switched to architecture before the. Jetson. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. God. Okay. You now that one. Is You know them well both of them now. You're saying Jackson expert now but he's pretty crazy life like when I was researching no way he held his hostages, colleges board of trustees demand school policy reform. Yes. I actually launch that in some youtube documentary and I know but he's an amazing actor person I think he's one of the highest bid actors in Hollywood right and at one point he was the highest. Paid. And he's been around for a long time both him and salmon are pretty cool. They are they are. I agree. Thirty six feet can swim thirty, six feet, percents sex flippers. That's amazing when it really going. Not from a standstill probably like they're measured as they're already moving. Yeah that's so cool that mazing. All right. So How can we follow you on your journey as you make your transition to? Lake Taco. Tahoe Donner Memorial. State Park is my digs. So California state parks on social media. All socials also doing a livestream programs at my Rancho del Oso baseball page. So Rancho del Oso is part of big based in Redwood state parks on the coast. Guitar Tar Song Listen Music. Up already to go on wrapped up and About the conflicting plants happening right now with wildflower season. So identify a lot plants in their adaptations pollinators. That's kind of what I'm focusing on. Now also live reptiles that I bring out in people can see those virtually. Be there. To check them out. All right. Great well is there anything else you would like to add I? WanNa thank you for interviewing a thought really nice conversation, and I'm excited to be here and I think what you're doing is amazing. And keep at it and I'm honored to be parties while I'm honored that you are part of this process. I. Guess this movements that we're trying to build and thank you so much for sharing your story and also for pop quizzing me. That was one more share I was thinking about one thing I want to add would be to kind of give people the benefit of the doubt nowadays in Israeli stressful situation I've had a lot with that when I interact one is the park system and they're pretty agitated in a sea me back there. This my backyard I always uses now I can't do it. I think it's important. Nowadays seize up on some of our blame that people are throwing around sometimes like it's your fall our fall I think it's. Really easy to cast blame and it's a little bit harder but necessary to understand that people are generally coming from a place of positivity in the bathroom cells in their family in also the United States. Era People. Kind of tearing. Each other apart is so important for us to realize that people ultimately care a lot and that's why they're arguing and fighting and not because they really hate each other it's because they care a lot. Has Interaction at the beach. The other day I was bodysurfing a little bit in Iran, my friend sitting there social distance, but we allowed to be there the beach was open and US bodysurfing. Talking to him it was a family behind us, and so people walk buying this woman thought that we were having a party because it was like us sitting there and then kind of behind it was like another family. And so she started reprimanding us for having a party using us a spreading the virus. My first initial reaction was like you don't know what you're talking about lady I didn't say anything about thinking that I'll say you don't know what you're talking about. You know she's really navy thinking it her warning us about this is going to be the best for the planet in her community is. Limiting these social gatherings until the virus dissipates for us to be able to come back out again. So she probably in her mind that she was helping ultimately but Thomas construed the situation since that getting angry and self righteous and like arguing I just waved at her acknowledged at a her let her go on for walk in process that as per trying you the best and also meet trying to be the best state healthy and following the rules. I. Can still be at the beach bodysurfing a little bit. But it's tough. It is a lot of emotions fine nowadays. Oh, yeah for sure thank you for reminding us about that because with the protests there happening and everyone just for the most part were our anxiety levels are really high right now, we want this to end and we keep asking ourselves what is this going to Ed, but we don't know and I think it starts to fight the uncertainty of the situation and the severity of making one misstep could end up taking your life. So yeah, thank you for sharing that and I really hope that. Those people who are quick to want to reprimand others take a step back and ask themselves what is going on here and should I do something about it or like what can I do to really understand the situation better before jumping into conclusions I think that's another important taped do because then it turns into like a a barbecue becky candice situation. We don't need any more those. anyways. Well, thank you again so much for this wonderful conversation I learned so much and I think your story is so important for other aspiring environmentalists and your story means a lot to me. So thank you so much for sharing br shadows, green ceilings yeah. Fish Spoke Your high. Zooming. Yeah, have you speed dial? Jeremy Hyde me up the. Call. All right. Well, thank you again and we'll definitely be in touch. He all. Thanks for listening to breaking green ceilings. If you'd like to hear more episodes with change making environmentalists head on over to water savvy solutions, dot com back slash podcast. You can find me online on instagram and twitter, and as always if you'll love the show, please don't forget to subscribe rate and like on Itunes you can also sign up for my. Newsletter to find out when you episodes are available and please do share the podcast with your family friends colleagues, and wherever you think will be inspired by the wisdom of far change makers. I, always welcome feedback. So please feel free to reach out to me. My contact information is also on water savvy solutions DOT COM until next time, keep breaking through those green ceilings.

Park System California State Parks State Park Jack Shoe California California State Park System State Park System Jeremy US Superintendent Jack New Mexico Grad school Barbados Jeremy Lin California State Parks People Rangers skating Piranha Cruz