20 Episode results for "University Of California Irvine"

Medical Nanogels

Innovation Now

01:30 min | 2 years ago

Medical Nanogels

"The researchers are developing a new treatment for the five million people a year who are snake bite victims. This is innovation. Now bringing you stories behind the ideas that shave our future. The most common way to produce treatments for venomous snake bites is to inject a horse or sheep with a non lethal dose of venom, wait for the animal to develop antibodies, then harvest and process those antibodies into an anti venom. Each anti-venom is species specific and expensive to make. But researchers at the university of California Irvine have developed a synthetic alternative that doesn't need refrigeration and can be used as a broad spectrum defense against many different kinds of snake bites. A specifically designed Nanno gel. The team calls Nando. It can be injected into a victim. The gel binds to protein toxins absorbing and neutralizing the venom, a medic with a backpack or. Or hospitals in remote locations could keep a supply of the inexpensive Nando on hand for emergencies and even better future. Nando tes could be modified to take the sting out of venomous bites from spiders, scorpions, and beads for innovation. Now I'm Jennifer poet. Now is produced by the National Institute of aerospace, through collaboration with NASA and is distributed by w HR v..

Nando Nando tes university of California Irvin National Institute of aerospac NASA Nanno
Butterflies Have Hearts In Their Wings. You'll Never Guess Where They Have Eyes

Short Wave

13:48 min | 2 months ago

Butterflies Have Hearts In Their Wings. You'll Never Guess Where They Have Eyes

"Hey everybody, matty Safai here and emily. Kwong a few weeks ago, we hosted a virtual shortwave themed. Trivia night with Trivia Master Terry. Simon Seven. Hundred of you attended. I've been hundred twenty. One of you got a perfect score smarties. But there was one player who really stood out. Cowan. From free silver you're. All. Right. So let me tell you about Noah Noah flubbed Matty's tiebreaker question about bugs. It's a pro fiscus that doesn't start with an ASS. No. I like a true champion. He congratulated Nina from team. That's so raven claw, who nailed it off. Muted Down I'm so sorry. But I'm so proud of you, that's a raven cloud. Shout teams high fidelity fishbowl that also one Noah you lost, but won something even more precious than free NPR coffee, you one are. Yes and because of your indomitable and generous spirit today Noah Cowan, the honor of kicking off the show is yours, take it away. This is no from Washington DC. You're listening to shortwave. From NPR. Adriana Briscoe has probably forgotten more about butterflies than you or I will ever know probably. Yes. She's a professor of biology and Ecology at the University of California Irvine, and my last studies, the evolution, a coloration and vision in. Now. You can probably guess that butterflies see with. Their, eyes. Thanks to these little light detecting cells called photo receptors. But they also have those photo receptors in. Interesting places. They have photoreceptors. Genitalia. Yeah. Genitals, you can imagine how that might be beneficial to them. Because dear, listeners, I could not imagine how. But it turns out that females use these special cells that detect light on their genitals to figure out where to lay an egg, they need to do this kind of quickly void had been eaten by bird So we think that it's probably omission really advantages for them because they can very quickly point and shoot in an egg i. mean, that's as good as reason as any other to have you know photoreceptors in your genitals I think. Yup and males also have photoreceptors in their genitalia and they need them in order to mate. So if you paints those gentle photoreceptors over with black paint. The males try to court and try to mate and they just can't complete. It can't do it. First of all, I have a lot of questions whoever designed that experiment and second of. Wow. Who Thought there for this? This summer this year, it is especially important to appreciate the little things like a walk in the fresh air people in some butterflies. Adriana Briscoe is going to help us make sure the next time you do that. You will know a little bit more about how they do their people in right back at you. I mattie Safai, and this is shortwave the daily science podcast from NPR. Okay. Yeah. So I thought the photoreceptors in the general thing was pretty cool. But then on, explain to me what she does with butterflies in her lab at UC Irvine. Gosh is so fun to train. Butterflies is so cool to learn more about how butterflies seat Color Adriana trains them to fly towards. Let's say a certain type of Red Light. What we do is we train them to associate a colored light of a particular wave league with something. They really want butterflies always want nectar. And so we feed them by just placing them on the colored light I'm rolling for bosses letting them SIP. I, mean if the biggest question of Your Butterfly Day is who's going to unroll your purpose sticky next to a yummy pile of laboratory grade nectar. That's pretty good. Right, and after about a week, Adriana introduces a second colored light one, they haven't been trained to attacked. You give him the choice, and if they correctly choose the train collar, you know that they can distinguish between those two lights. Now, there's a little twisted us, which is that you have to test them over a series of relative brightness of two lights because. Some insects are positively or tactic meeting that they love flying toward. Aside from Understanding Butterfly Vision better. What kind of light and colors butterflies see could help us better understand how not to interfere with their environment. If we want to design buildings and unnatural objects that are sustainable dome inversely affect our animal and insect populations, we need to know something about what their sensory world is like. So. We mentioned that China has to make sure that the little butterfly isn't just flying towards the brightest light in her experiments. A lot of insects do that, and that's because scientists think it's part of a survival strategy. You can imagine that if you're a butterfly lie in forest under the canopy. It's a little bit darker under the canopy. Then if you're flying above the treetops and butterflies are constantly trying to avoid being eaten by lizards and birds, and one of the things that they do is they an escape response, which is to fly towards the Brightness Patch of light. They can find in their visual field. Yeah, and that's often a gap in the canopy. On, the subject of flying, it's actually something. Butterflies can't always do at the drop of a hat. They need to be warm to fly, but they're cold. So Adriana says, if you've ever seen a butterfly hanging out slowly opening and closing its wings that's called basking. They can open their wings. The wings pick up some like that hopes. Up Right, but they also have to be very careful. Opening their wings is really because it also means that usually they're more powerful parts are now visible to potential predators. On the flipside, their wings can keep butterflies from getting too warm. We used to think most the butterfly wing was composed of world. Leslie dead. Cellular. Material. But it turns out that there are parts of the butterfly way that are very much alive. Their wings actually circulate Hema lymph, which is kind of like butterfly blood to help regulate their temperature, Kinda like the ears of an elephant, and incredibly some wonderful is some mail order flies in their wings have incredibly busy logically active to shoot him site and they have little winged hearts. What are little structures, little structures which are pumping chemo. Little Butterfly hearts in their wings, which is like to me like totally amazing. So. Yeah. Warm. But not too. and. Once they're in the Air Adriana. That some butterflies. See in a way you are I can't. For example, monarch butterflies can see what's known as polarized. Light that you see in the blue sky is partially polarized by the atmosphere that means that the orientation of the photonic waves is kind of filtered in one direction and we can't really see that. So we lose the. Directional information, but butterflies have the ability to detect polarized light, and so one of the things I contributed to the discovery that monarch butterflies use ultraviolet polarize light. When they navigate that means they can see ultraviolet polarized light from the sun, which helps them know where the sun is. Even if it's cloudy and butterflies navigate by adjusting their flight pattern relative to the side while they're migrating. In so it gives them this extra ability to continue to migration even if the weather is a. Good. Got It. Got It. Awesome. Awesome. So cool and of course, that's going to be Adriano. Wasn't always interested in butterflies. But as an Undergrad, college, she knew she was interested in evolutionary biology. So she wrote to a professor in that department to ask if there was an open spot in his lab. And there was into the next summer, he and his wife who was also biologists to study butterflies invited me to join their research groups. To spend a summer to field. In the rocky mountain biological APP. And I jumped. At this opportunity. It was just an incredibly transformative experience me I ended up. In surrounded by flowers. Mets butterflies, and that was my path to becoming a professor. That summer she spent in the rocky mountains made Adriana, realize how important teachers are in creating scientists, not just those two professors who took her out in the field, but the teachers she grew up with in her own family. My earliest role models were my mother and my grandmother who were both bilingual elementary school teacher. So they were scientists, but they were role models for me in terms of. Educational. Attainment and. So. I became curious like how many of our? K through twelve public school teachers in California, where I live are letting and also teach science math or computer science. So Google and I could not find this information anywhere. And yet because this is like such an important question. So naturally, she a graduate student wrote code to analyze more than one million California, Department of Education, records looking at the demographics of k through twelve public teachers when we dug into the data to look at what percentage of. Teachers are Latino and also teach science math or computer science. The numbers three percent, oh. Wow. Yeah. And it just it's a shocking to me. So what that means is that if you're a Latino students in California, there's a pretty good chance that you will never have a let the teacher who teaches science mouth or computer science. And yet teachers. For sure. The reason why I became a scientist, right? Yeah I mean. I. Think you're right. We focus so much on, you know the percentage of college professors or high school teachers, but a lot of those decisions about who you are and who you can see yourself as happen way earlier than that. You know like teachers create scientists, right? We know this. Yeah. Absolutely. There have been studies have shown that girls who participate in summer science camp are much more likely to actually major in science when they're in college. And the hands on experiences and having role models. Absolutely crucial. Both in terms of that early experience when I was in middle school. In terms of the college experience, it gave me a sense that this was something I could do because. There were, for example, there were women which opened up my eyes to possibility that I could also become a scientist. And it helped me on my journey. Adriana. Briscoe. This episode was produced by Brett Butler and Rebecca. Ramirez, edited by Deborah George in fact checked by Rebecca Ramirez. I'm Maddie Safai thanks for listening to shortwave from NPR. Until recently, Admin Hong says, he didn't speak out against racism because he was scared. Listen now on the codes which podcast from NPR.

Adriana Briscoe NPR scientist Noah Noah Noah Cowan professor of biology and Ecolo matty Safai Air Adriana Red Light California Simon Seven Kwong University of California Irvin Washington Rebecca Ramirez Nina mattie Safai UC Irvine
Butterflies Have Hearts In Their Wings. You Won't Believe Where They Have Eyes

Short Wave

12:47 min | Last week

Butterflies Have Hearts In Their Wings. You Won't Believe Where They Have Eyes

"Hey everybody matty Safai here and Emily. Wishing you a happy indigenous Peoples Day to native American Alaska Native. And indigenous people in stem. We see you and we appreciate you the shortwave team is off for today. So we're encore in one of our favorite conversations from the summer. You will never see butterflies the same way. Thanks for listening enjoy. You're listening to shortwave. From. NPR. Adriana Briscoe has probably forgotten more about butterflies than you are. I will ever know probably. Yes. That's a fair assessment. She's professor of Biology and Ecology at the University of California Irvine and my lab studies, the evolution of coloration and vision in butterflies. Now you can probably guess that butterflies see with. Their eyes. Thanks to these little light detecting cells called photo. But they also have those photo receptors in. Interesting places. They have four receptors genitalia. Genitals, you can imagine how that might be beneficial to them because dear listeners, I could not imagine how but it turns out that females use these special cells that detect light on their genitals to figure out where to lay an egg they need to do this kind of quickly to avoid being eaten by bird So we think that it's probably a losing early advantageous for them because they can very quickly point and shoot egg I mean that's as good as reason as any other to have you know photoreceptors in your genitals I think. Yup and males also have photoreceptors in their Genitalia and day need them in order to meet So if you paint those. Gentle photoreceptors over blockade. The males try to court and try to mate and they just can't complete. It can't do it. First of all, I have a lot of questions for whoever designed that experiment and second. Wow Brought who thought to live there for this? This summer this year it is especially important to appreciate the little things like a walk in the fresh air people some butterflies Adriana Briscoe, is going to help us make sure the next time you do that you will know a little bit more about how they do their peop- in right back at you. I'm Maddie Safai, and this is shortwave the daily science podcast from NPR. Okay Yeah. So I thought the photoreceptors in the general thing was pretty cool but then Andreani explained to me which she does with butterflies in her lab at UC Irvine. Is. So Fun to train butterflies is so cool. To learn more about how butterflies seek color Adriana trains them to fly towards let's say a certain type of red light. Don't we do is we train them to associate a colored light of a particular wavelength with something really want butterflies always want nectar. And so we beat them by just placing them on the colored light rolling process and letting them SIP. I mean if the biggest question of Your Butterfly Day is who's going to unroll your purpose and stick next to a yummy pile of laboratory grade nectar. That's pretty good. Right. After about a week, Adriana introduces a second colored light one. They haven't been trained to detect you give him the choice, and if they correctly choose the train caller, you know that they can distinguish between those two bytes now there's. A little twist abyss, which is that you have to test them over a series of relative right Mrs of the two lights because some insects are positively photo tactic meaning that they love line toward right light Aside from Understanding Butterfly Vision better knowing what kind of light and colors butterflies see could help us better understand how not to interfere with their environment. If we want to design buildings and unnatural objects that are sustainable dome, adversely affect our animal and insect populations we need to know something about what their sensory world is like. So we mentioned that Adriana has to make sure that the little butterfly isn't just flying towards the brightest light in her experiments. A lot of insects do that, and that's because scientists think it's part of a survival strategy. You can imagine that if you're under fly lying in a forest under the canopy that it's a little bit darker under the canopy. Then if you're flying above the treetops and butterflies are constantly trying to avoid being eaten by lizards and birds, and one of the things that they do is they have an escape response which is to fly towards the Brightness Patch of light. They can find and their visual feel. Yeah and that's often a gap in the canopy. On the subject of flying, it's actually something butterflies can't always do at the drop of a hat they need to be warm to fly, but they're cold blood. So Adriana says if you've ever seen a butterfly hanging out slowly opening and closing its wings that's called basking. The can open their wings wings pick up some like that hopes warm up right. But they also have to be very careful opening their wings is risking you because it also means that usually they're more colorful parts are now visible to potential predators. On the flipside, their wings can also keep butterflies from getting to warm. We used to think most the butterfly wing was composed of were Leslie Dead Cellular Material. But it turns out that there are parts of the butterfly way that are very much alive. Their wings actually circulate Hema lymph, which is kind of like butterfly blood to help regulate their temperature kind like the ears of an elephant and incredibly somebody flies some male butterflies in their wings have incredibly busy logically to shoot him and they have little winged hearts what there are little structures, little structures which are humping chemo. Little Butterfly hearts in their wings. Me Like toilet amazing. So. Yeah warm. But not too. And once they're in the Air Adriana helped discover that some butterflies see in a way you are I can't for example, monarch butterflies can see what's known as polarized light. Blue skies partially polarized by the atmosphere that means that the orientation of the photonic waves is kind of filtered in one direction and we can't really see that we lose. Directional information, but lies have the ability to detect polarized light, and so one of the things that contributed to the discovery that monarch butterflies use ultra-violet polarize light when they navigate. That means they can see ultraviolet polarized light from the sun, which helps them know where the sun is even if it's cloudy and butterflies navigate by adjusting their flight pattern relative to the sun while they're migrating. In so it gives them this extra ability to continue to migration even if the weather is good. Got It. Got It. Awesome. Awesome. So cool and of course, that's going to be tough. AUDREATTA wasn't always interested in butterflies but as an Undergrad College, she knew she was interested in evolutionary biology. So she wrote to a professor in that department to ask if there was an open spot in his lab. And there was into the next summer he and his wife who was also biologist to study butterfly is invited me to join their research groups. To spend summer to field work in. The Rocky Mountain biological offer. And I jumped at this opportunity. It was just an incredibly transformative experience me I ended up. In surrounded by flowers. Meadows butterflies and that was my path to becoming a professor. That summer she spent in the rocky mountains made Adriana realize how important teachers are in in creating scientists not just those two professors who took her out in the field, but the teachers she grew up with in her own family. My earliest role models were my mother and my grandmother who were both. Lingual elementary school teachers. So they were scientists but they were role models for me in terms of. Educational attainment and. So I became curious like how many of our? K through twelve public school teachers in California. are letting and also teach science math computer science. So I Google and I could not find this information anywhere. And yet God this is such an important question. So naturally, she a graduate student wrote code to analyze more than one million California Department of Education Records Looking at the demographics of k through twelve public schoolteachers when we dug into the data to look at what percentage of teachers are Latino and also teach science math or computer science. The number was three percent Oh. Wow. Yeah. And it just it's a shocking to me. So with that means, is that if you're Latino students in California, there's a pretty good chance that you will never have a let the teacher who teaches science math or computer science. And yet teachers. For sure, the reason why I became a scientists, right Yeah I mean I. Think you're right. We focus so much on you know the percent of college professors or high school teachers but a lot of those decisions about who you are and who you can see yourself as happened way earlier than that you know like teachers create scientists, right? We know this. Yeah absolutely There have been studies which have shown that girls who participate in summer science camp are much more likely to actually major in science when they're in. College. And Hands on experiences and having role models. Absolutely crucial. Both in terms of that early experience when I was in middle school and in terms of the college experience, it gave me a sense that this was something I can do because. There were from Dabble there were women which opened my eyes to possibility. I could also become a scientist. And it helped me on my journey. Adriana Briscoe. This episode was produced by Brett Bachman and Rebecca. Ramirez edited by George in fact, checked by Rebecca Ramirez. I'm Mattie Safai thanks for listening to shortwave from NPR.

Adriana Briscoe scientist NPR professor of Biology and Ecolo Air Adriana professor matty Safai American Alaska Native University of California Irvin Rebecca Ramirez Maddie Safai Rocky Mountain Mattie Safai Andreani Hema lymph Google Leslie Dead Cellular Material Emily
California Rep. Katie Porter Schools Congress With a White Board

TIME's Top Stories

06:29 min | 2 months ago

California Rep. Katie Porter Schools Congress With a White Board

"California representative. Katie Porter Schools Congress with a Whiteboard by Abby Louis. About a decade ago Comma Harris called up Elizabeth Warren to ask for a tip it was the messy aftermath of the great recession and Harris. Then California's attorney general needed a recommendation for someone who could handle the complicated job of overseeing the settlement money. Big Banks had paid for creating and bursting the infamous mortgage-backed securities bubble I said talk to Katie Porter Warren recalls telling Harris Porter, who was then a University of California Irvine law professor had been a student of Warren's at. Harvard. Law School Warren remembered her as fully prepared ready to go leaning forward all systems go. Harris listened in two thousand twelve she appointed porter to the role of California's Independent Bank. Monitor where the professors spent about two years overseeing more than eighteen billion dollars in debt and mortgage relief responding to more than five thousand consumer complaints and authorizing half a dozen reports on bank compliance and she did it all on a shoestring when border was finally given funds to hire an assistant but not enough to hire another attorney she got creative Warren Recalls reporter asked her assistant and dress up to look more like a lawyer. So the two of them could appear formidable at meetings. Today as porters. First term as a congresswoman for California's forty fifth district draws to a close her reputation for being tough and sometimes theatrical leader remains intact in a March two thousand Hundred House Committee on Financial Services Hearing Porter Stumped Consumer Financial Protection Bureau Director Kathy Krieger on the difference between an interest rate and an annual percentage rate unsatisfied. With grant, Answer Puerto pulled out a textbook she'd authored modern consumer law. I'll be happy to send you a copy of the textbook that I wrote the congressman said at a hearing the next month or pushed J. P. Morgan Chase CEO Jamie diamond to explain why his employees wages were. So low. She calculated that a single mom working fulltime as a chase bank teller and would end up five hundred, sixty, seven dollars in the red each month after paying for necessities like rent on a one bedroom apartment and daycare. How should she manage this budget shortfall while she's working fulltime at Your Bank? She asked diamond who didn't have a solution at yet another hearing in May two, thousand, nineteen, she flexed housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben. Carson by quizzing him on the foreclosure related term realestate owned Carson suggested that its acronym reo sounded like an Oreo cookie porter threw away the Orioles Carson Center after the hearing she says. Porter's commitment to holding power to account has culminated in her near meteoric rise on the hill and according to the Cook Political Report. Great odds at reelection in her historically red district. This November in a moment where the nation's President is broadcasting scientifically disproved and potentially deadly lies in service to a political agenda. Porter emerges as an Avatar of what fact-based politics could. Look like nerdy data driven serious about improving the lives of working class. Americans. This year porter again applied her wonky approach to the capital as her colleagues grappled with the deadliest pandemic in a century combined with the worst economy since at least two, thousand eight during March Twelfth House oversight and Reform Committee hearing Puerto whipped out a whiteboard to illustrate what it would. Cost an uninsured American to undergo Corona Virus Diagnostics. The figure was one, thousand, three, hundred, thirty, one dollars. Fear of these costs is going to keep people from being tested from getting the care they need and from keeping their communities safe. She told the room which included Doctor Robert Redfield. The director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention CDC citing an existing. Law that grants redfield the power to make testing widely available during a public health emergency she used her remaining moments to ask redfield weather he would commit to invoking it. She asked some variant of the same question three times upping her Gusto with each iteration until redfield visibly beleaguered finally folded I. Think you're an excellent questioner he said so my answer is yes. Congressman Mike Levin Fellow Freshman Democrat John About her to nasty. Fortunately, he says of their time together on the campaign trail. I was never subject to the whiteboard in a recent zoom interview from her California Kitchen Porter answers my questions while folding laundry for her three Kids Ages Eight, twelve and fourteen. What goes through her mind. An expert witness skirts her relentless inquiries in the case of the exchange with redfield she. was irate she had told the CDC before the hearing that she would be asking that exact question and that redfield should be prepared to answer it never in all my years as a teacher have I given the answer out in advance and yet he resisted she says, he knew the law he knew what answer was the correct answer. He just didn't want to be accountable for using the lot better Americans lives. Porter's commitment to fighting for. The little guy is born perhaps of her own modest roots she grew up on a farm in Iowa where her father was a farmer turned banker and her mother founded a magazine public television show about quilting with the help of scholarships and student loans, porter attended Yale's and. And Harvard for law school between the two endeavors she taught eighth grade math. That's when she discovered what she calls the performance art to teaching a skill. She employs today whiteboard in tow at House Financial Services Committee hearings as a single mom and a domestic abuse survivor. She has seen firsthand the value of government funded benefits. She says, she wouldn't have made it to Washington without access to free public education for her children. There is no room in my budget to pay for private school. She says knowing that my kids are safe that they're learning and building good life skills in public school makes this job possible. Like many single moms. She is adept at multitasking shortly into our conversation still folding clothes. The congresswoman jumps onto a virtual briefing on racial justice and policing. When a GOP colleague mentions the gentleman who died in Minnesota she holds up a handmade sign scrawled on wrinkled piece of paper. Say His name. George Floyd it's a hallmark porter move. She's unwilling to let teachable moment pass says Josh Mandelbaum one of Porter's former law students. She didn't treat her students any differently than she treated a CEO in front of Congress he recalls she expected to you to be prepared as a progressive Democrat who supports more accessible healthcare and fewer accessible guns. She's not necessarily a natural. Fit for her California district which has elected Republicans. To the House since it was created in Nineteen ninety-three in two, thousand, eighteen, her narrow four point victory was partially the result of a recent influx of new Latino and Asian voters who tend to vote democratic. But Porter suggests her appeal is also the result of her style as a natural teacher. She's driven by facts fairness and she says calling people out for what they're saying when it doesn't make any sense. It's a message of accountability that she's willing to deliver to even the most formidable powerbrokers in Washington. I'm not letting them off the hook because I, believe in democracy she says because I believe in government.

porter Katie Porter Warren Doctor Robert Redfield Harris Porter California Katie Porter Schools Congress Comma Harris attorney CEO director Washington Answer Puerto University of California Irvin Elizabeth Warren Harvard Hundred House Committee Abby Louis Jamie diamond Carson
The Brighter Side of Screen Time

Parenting: Difficult Conversations

24:26 min | 1 year ago

The Brighter Side of Screen Time

"Catamarca Yoshi phone, Bill Gavin. Wallace a little kid with a big grin is showing off his favorite stuffed animal that somehow mashes up, captain marvel and the Yoshi character for Mario brothers. Oh in a please music, too. Gavin's in his room in the cozy townhouse. He shares in northwest Washington DC with his parents, Chris Wallace and latoya Peterson. Four. Kevin is a character. Minus Nance gathered while est in five nab, usual. It's a week night, and that means dinners underway sacco's, or you guys make banana bread manana. Piano has been practiced. And it's time for Gavin in his mom to cuddle up on the couch for one of their nightly favorite shared activities. The PlayStation before you do. Also video games. Sure to lots of parents TV abs- video games. They're all just a waste of time or even something to be afraid of, but the Toya sees things pretty differently. In fact, she figures the best way to shape, a future Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates is to let her son play I started noticing all these tech Barron biographies, and whatever they're all messing around with computers, and you're like five or six you told me all he was doing coding and they never played a game please. So. If he's interested kind of let him do it could embracing the screen work for your family. Well, that's what we're going to figure out in this episode of life kit for parenting. This is your screen time tied. I'm on your cabinets or reporter for NPR and the author of a book for parents called the art of screen time. Lift by the time our kids, get on the baby stage, pretty much all of us have accepted the media's going to be part of their childhoods in some way. So how do we harness the positives of screen time? You see what happens. Do you wanna see what happens? We'll stay tuned. This message comes from NPR sponsor, principal principal understands you may have big plans for your money, and sometimes life has something else in mind. Twist and turns you'd never see coming twists like job transfers and turns like rising college tuitions principle can help you plan for that alert. More at principal dot com. Principal life insurance company, a member of principal financial group. Demoain iowa. Support for NPR in the following message come from Lincoln learning which offers over thirteen thousand online, courses to help you achieve your goals. You can take a course like managing stress and you can learn from experts about the importance of mindfulness listening, thinking, and communicating positively and much more Lincoln learning videos are short. So you can fit a lesson in on your commute's and apply that same day and life. Kate listeners get a month of learning free. Start your free trial at Lincoln, learning dot com slash NPR. Make a sound. Hit up this screen time guide has three levels. We'll tell you all about the good the bad and the parent side of the screen time dilemma in this first episode, we'll give you a walk through four takeaways, you can use to find the good in your children's media experiences. Plus, how sharing an activity like TV can actually make your kids more empathetic now. We should be up front about one thing when it comes to technology l'etoile Peterson, isn't exactly a newbie. She grew up gaming. So it was my dad's system that I was not allowed to be planning on doing anyway. And he had this gold cartridge Zelda, which is my favorite and I just had to figure this out I had no this was going on. I would just wait till dad wasn't home. Sneak into the room. Yes, that's from the you're right. You know, we're talking about. He likes a lot. Peek at the end of high school. She says, probably putting up at least like forty fifty hours a week in games these days that is not happening apparently got a job like there's too much going on when the twentieth does play now it's often for research for work. She spent her whole career emerging media from blogging virtual reality and today she's the co founder of an all women of color run video game company. I'm the globe game. So chief experience officer, but it basically means that I designed the experience of like how the game feels how it flows, the mission of glow up games. She says, we're building a community force intially like underrepresented majorities in gaming. So women who play like us. Did you? So Gavin's getting the benefit of all, like gamer, mom experience. But what if you're not a gamer? Well, this is our takeaway, number one whenever possible share screens with your kids. All right. Fly through safes right? Yeah. This is the one we space. You're right. Can you eat member? How blood we space? I'll try by playing with Gavin. The twin Chris are actually following doctor's orders that is spending media time together with children as much as possible. The American Academy of pediatrics the AP, they revised their guidelines and children media a couple of years ago. Now, this is the closest thing out there to a pronouncement from on high on how you should deal with your kids and screens, and it boils down to this trying to use the devices more together with kids developmental and behavioral pediatrician. Dr Janney, Radetsky is the lead author of those AP guidelines. That's heard the press conference announcing them. She sees patients and does research at the university of Michigan. She's the ultimate voice of wisdom on this issue. If we have one, I want parents to feel like they should be talking with kids about what are you been watching on YouTube? And why do you like that? What do you think about that? Dr esky is careful say, of course, we can all share all our kids media time. That's not realistic. If you're a single parent, or you work a lot, or both letroy, for example, travels law for work in which he's gone if Christmas he gets done around the house, he'll Gavin in front of a TV show or game. I don't know any parent that doesn't have some ipad game stash for the kids on there just to like keep them chill. But. She says normally he's playing with meat. Normally we played together Gavin's dad, Chris works as a mortgage loan officer. He also grew up playing video games, but these days he prefers TV which was on quite a bit during his childhood, and even today, family events are centered around the television, these days with Gavin redefinition do bond with some of the things that we watch, you know, it's like, cuddle time Gavin is totally picking up in our conversation, just then he decides to dive bomb the couch. Shared media use actually look like when kids are very little toddlers. Experts say you should treat media more or less like a picture book sit with them talk about what they're watching playing and refer back to it later. This helps them learn and retain with learn when they get a little older. He can balance shared media use say a family movie night with more individual time. But even when your kids are playing are watching so low, you should have conversations about what they're doing why this slime YouTube channel instead of a different one or if they want to download a new app, you should definitely look at it together. When you share screens with your kids like the toy and Chris both through with Gavin you can do a few different things. You can protect your kids from the scariest there, you can mitigate messages that are not so positive, and you can underline the positive messages, and the learning that's there in a lot of kids media, all of this is experts like January desk. Call active mediation. Take it. Were example, let's take a little kids TV show like Daniel tiger. It's designed based on research to teach kids emotional skills, like how to manage anger, and be patient. Three four one study found that this show works watching it regularly improved preschool children's apathy and their ability to recognize emotions and others, but there was a catch the messages worked if and only if the families of those kids were already in the habit of discussing and helping the little kids process, what they saw on. TV. Now, if you're listening out there at this point, your head may be spending a bit, because I know the main message that we parents internalize, is that our job is to say, no, all the time screens, and actually, we've been misinformed about that. And that's kind of a problem. Mimi ITO is a cultural anthropologist who for the past two decades has been researching everything about young people, and digital technology. I just love talking to teenagers. She runs the connected learning lab at the university of California Irvine, and she says, it's a much more effective parenting strategy. When parents listen to their kids and focus more on connection than control. I have to say it's a lot of fun. And I would encourage people to try it. It's a lot more fun than clocking screen time. And doing the finger-wagging thing she's found that. Surprisingly parents fear of media, actually can be the cause of problems often parents have a more negative view of video games than kids, Stu. And so we see time and time again that. Parents aren't engaged in the kind of mentoring and guidance around video games that they do for other parts of kids play in growing up. In other words, it's not the games, or other media are so inherently problematic. It's the fact that parents don't even try to relate to their kids interests. That's what makes the online world, not so positive space. It's a no goes on this leads directly to our second. Takeaway, takeaway number to balance is about much more than time. Gopher gavin. List of toilet Peterson and Chris Wallace is house. There's no screen timers, no schedules. No hard and fast rules, media's part of their day. So we try to be very well rounded what he does like bedtime is still stories printed books. That is it's just games or another element to it. I'm in that Gavin is just like a normal kid like he loves going the playground. He likes to go to the library pretty frequently like. My back. Balance screens is an individual thing. It's all about your priorities as a family, for example. Doctor Jenny redundancy is very much in favor of screen free family meals, but depending on your family, you know, that could be dinner or it could be breakfasts because it's this regular structured time to sit down and look at each other and have a conversation and exchange thoughts and make meaning out of your day. All right already. Now, I call my book, the artist green time because that's the shorthand or the catch all for this concept of balance around, parenting, and technology screen time, I think, is too blunt an instrument to understand the really wide range and diversity, and how young people are interacting with devices the deeper. I got into the topic the more experts like Mimi, ITO Chantler told me that screen time is not really the point, you know, the difference between a Skyping with a grandparent on a phone versus watching YouTube videos is something that all parents understand. And yet that idea of screen time is still out there as a way of managing kids engagement with technology. You know, we want to recognize that there is a reason that parents Fred over screen time, there is so much out there around kids in screens, and a lot of that it's very real will talk more about how to set limits in the next episode but Meany to research really encourages us to focus not on the time alone. But I'm what kids are doing with that time. Is it solo consumption is social or creative and similarly in her research rather than measure time alone? Dr January dusky prefers to look at what families are using and how they're using it. She says that limits should be based on your individual child, and his or her health examples of this include wanting families to set some limits, so that kids can get enough sleep. So that kids can get outside and explore and do things that make their mind. Take the lead instead of you know, always following the instruction of an adult, you should not hesitate to talk to your pediatrician. If you have any questions along these lines la- Toya did when. Gam sorta showing this huge interest in games. One of the things I wanted to know was okay is safe like my whole career is an emerging media. She has her pediatrician about one surprising developmental issue. And I was like, yeah. The only thing I really notice, Lavigne's, really, like he doesn't really want to deal buttons, or things that she goes, he's not developing finger strength, if he's playing video games, stuff like that. Which I didn't even make the connection with 'cause when they're flying with tablets phones like any of the monitor's us, we give them they're not building the muscle strength in their fingers. So now they have him stringing buttons for fun. And of course, practicing the. So part of balance is sometime saying, no, but that is not only job is parents take away. Number three be smart about content as we've heard the twin Peterson. And Chris Wallace tend to share media with Gavin that they themselves love grownup movies, like Star Wars or into the spider verse or grownup video games, like kingdom hearts. This is good for the reasons we've talked about, but they'll be the first to tell you this system has drawbacks too. So. Some of the games have very strong adult themes in them like things that are not appropriate for like five year. Olds. For example, one game la- toys playing when we meet her is persona. It's sort of a supernatural adventure sent Tokyo with elements of film warr, an anime. Let's get an explain the plot complete Nate treads those so people because they turned evil fist particular game is also rated m for mature and it features a storyline about a creepy gym teacher. And latoya says she didn't know that before she started playing with Gavin. Normally she would check before she plays anything with him. He was watching me play the game at the time it was a very beginning of the game. And I didn't unusual for me. I didn't pre check normally, you know, I know I know about this mom and dad kinda disagree on this issue, but in any case because Gavin's now obsessed with the game. The Toya spends a lot of her evenings after he goes to bed trying to play her way past the inappropriate parts, and there's other issues, too, with content, latoya, and Chris of. Also banned Gavin from watching YouTube by himself because they don't trust the videos that get recommended by the algorithm. La- Toya says Gavin will turn on Pepe pig like three videos later. There's like some dude and pig suit, or like oh or my favorites in Portuguese cutting peppis head off. It's awful one popular resource. Dr Janney risky recommends is common sense, media, it has thousands of reviews of games apps and movies. But they're still pitfalls out there like advertising. She recently published a study that found that of the most downloaded apps and games for young children ninety five percent had advertising, so many of them are so bloated with ads that sometimes it took up more time than the game play experience it self. That's both free end paid apps. Many of them, labelled educational or based on beloved children's books and they're swimming with ads. She check some of them out with her own son. One of them was like Masha and the bear where you could click on a treasure box, and you'd it would play an ad and then it would like clink a few coins into your treasure box. And my son was like, oh, I'm going to keep doing this. I'm really good at this game. I was like, that's not a game that is not a game that is you just watching more ads and them rewarding you in a way that feels good to you because you're eight Jamie dusky says that when our kids wanted download or stream something we should look ourselves and see how much are they like the kind of open ended sandbox apps, where kids can kind of explore and solve their own problems or how much are they really constrained apps? Are there lots of ads or in-app purchases is their inappropriate content? But the most important questions are the ones we ask our kids, what do you like about this? And what seems annoying creepy about it to researchers like Mimi, ITO say, ideally, were laying the foundation for good media choices while their kids are still little enough to sit on our laps that's because past lamentably school, as the kids get older, and more independent, we just can't control everything they seen here. Our role has to shift and Mimi has personal experience with this. So she to grew up as a gamer, I came of age actually in Tokyo during the arcade game era. So my games were really things like Alaksiej and, and the first Donkey Kong, she played with the kids when they were little, but then her daughter, lost interest, and her son got way better than her. They're definitely came a point where I couldn't keep up with my kids and, you know, it wasn't fun for them to play with me anymore, quite frankly. So instead, she took a step back to me, asking a lot of questions and observing my son's game play. Way. And being more of a interested observers supporter, cheerleader, rather than somebody that was actually playing the same games. So you're basically vising people to parent like anthropologists. Yeah. You got me on that one. By the way, both mimi's daughter, and her son or now in college. And they're both currently majoring in computer science. So we all wanna raise kids can do anything they wanted you be whoever they want to be. And now we've conquered some big misconceptions stand in the way of people successfully parenting, run media, and it's time for our final boss level. Takeaway, takeaway, number four. Look for what's positive about your kids screen time so you can help that positive stuff grow the toy Peterson, for example, sees games, getting Gavin were interested in reading and storytelling. The reading part, Zeh nor it was controlling cares. Body gains are also storytelling. A lot of people don't wait. Especially if you the last game you played tetris you might not realize that things have evolved, we have moved on from back minutes. Actress she also sees the challenges of games as building resilience. One of the big things we're working on right now is the concept of resiliency in not quitting when something is hard. In lose in loose and games are great with that. Because the whole idea like we were in some, he's mom's castle, 'cause I died like twice in this Gasol like immediately and gallons like mom's castles to harbors you stop. And I was having this is the point like sometimes things are hard and used to go back and try again. You try something different, and I've noticed, he does that in his real life, me says, when it comes to screen time, even if our kids interest is not something we would necessarily choose for them. We should watch for opportunities for kids to connect with others over shared media interests, and they get creative, you know, even if what they're into a TV show our boys band, it can be a springboard to a creative community. For example, there's lots of kids out there sharing fan created art on sites like deviant art or fan fiction on websites like watt pad. I mean we've talked to young girls who have literally read hundreds of pages of fan, fiction and written that many pages of fan fiction themselves, and they'll say, oh, we don't even dentist as readers and writers, because that's. What we do in school. Even video games can be creative spaces games like Minecraft and roadblocks. That's part of the reason that Mimi started connected camps. They sponsor safe online spaces where kids can play video games after school in the summer all online. So you're starting for night little league. You guys run it. That's right. It's true. Kids can prepare to play video games at the college versity level even get a scholarship. We wanna make sure that their first experiences of connecting to other gamers, online are really positive and safe and supportive kind of what you would expect in your playground at school. So let's hit pause now and take a moment together to process. What we've heard so far? It's time for the replay. I mean, the recap takeaway number one is share screens with your kids. I mean, we parents are constantly told that are one job is to take away the screens, anthropologist. Mimi ito. We could spend our energies much more wisely. I think that the burden on parenting is really real. I just think that the current burden is being placed on control. And I'm suggesting that you shift that effort to connection take away never to balance is about far more than time. Balances about health sleep family dinners, and adding back in media, titties. That are shared creative, social or focused on learning. Takeaway, number three be smart about content. Read the ratings on common sense media. And when in doubt, check those apps or videos alongside your child, because a lot of popular children's apps are really Laden down with ads and our final takeaway. Takeaway, number four. The boss level is look for. What is positive about your kids media passions can help them build a bridge to the people that they wanna be? You don't have to be a game or a geek yourself to raise kids who use media in positive ways, just have to look out for what's good. And encourage that. And with that leave you with a sign up from Gavin who since he watched the vendors movie daddy has decided that he wants to be a newscaster terrorists as we development, and that's all for this episode of life kit for parenting. Thanks for listening. Thanks to our experts. Mimi ITO at the university of California Irvine, and Dr Jenny rediscover at the university of Michigan and especial. Thanks to Toyota Peterson Chris Wallace. And of course Gavin Wallace. Governor poverty mouth. For more NPR life kit. Check it our next episode where we tackle the downsides of screens. And if you like what you hear make sure to check out our other life kit guides at NPR dot org slash life kit. And while you're there, subscribe to our newsletters, you don't miss anything. We've got more guides coming every month and all sorts of topics, and there's always, here's a completely random tip, this time from NPR's Nahra. Casper again, so my tro approach is to always bring a little poach with your over the counter medications of choice for different elements like colds, headaches, on always bring up poach with you when you travel overseas, because what you don't want to have happen is you get sick and all of us on your trying to figure out what your medication of choices called into different language. If you've got a tip for us or a parenting challenge, you want us to explore, please let us know Email us at life, kid, NPR dot org. Life kit, for parenting is edited by seed, Drummond, and produced by Larne mcguckian. Sylvie Douglas, at least scar say Katie Monteleone in khloe winer. Megan Kane is managing producer Beth Donovan is a senior editor are digital editor is Carol Richie. And our project coordinator is clear Schneider music by Nick pray and Brian Gerhard are project managers Mathilde yard, Neil Caruth is our general manager podcasts and the senior vice president of programming on your grandma. I'm on candidates. Thanks for listening. Support for this podcast and the following message come from the iheartradio podcast stuff, you should know hosts, Josh and Chuck sit down every Tuesday and Thursday to talk about everything from pizza to Pompeii. Listen on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. This message comes from NPR sponsor, principal principal understands you may have big plans for your money, and sometimes life has something else in mind. 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Episode 181: Locked Away

Scholars Strategy Network's No Jargon

28:30 min | 1 year ago

Episode 181: Locked Away

"Hi everyone. Just a quick note that we're taking a break next week for fourth of July, but don't worry, we'll be back in your feed the following week. Okay. On today's show. In eighteen ninety the US supreme court called solitary confinement are Barrick speculating that it would be abandoned altogether as a correctional practice. But now nearly one hundred thirty years later, it's clear that their prediction could not have been more wrong. So why is solitary confinement, so widespread and US prisons today? What does this practice mean for prisoners, their communities and society at large, and what can be done to change it? Hi, I'm Lizzie giddy Erlich, and this is the scholar strategy networks. No jargon each week. We discussed an American policy problem with one of the nation's top researchers without jargon for this week's episode is spoke to doctor Kermit writer. She's an associate professor of criminology law and society at the university of California Irvine and the author of the book, twenty three seven pelican bay prison and the rise of long term solitary confinement. Here's our conversation. Doctor, thanks for coming on jargon. Thanks so much for having me. So you study prisons, and in particular the practices solitary confinement. Let's talk about what prison and specifically, what solitary confinement is actually like before we get into a study of some of your actual research, your findings and some of your may be prescriptions. You know what, what is life like in solitary confinement? I think people have an idea of what it's like mostly for a lot of people, probably mostly based on depictions in the media, you know, as opposed to real life, experiences or people in their family. But yeah, tell us what the practice actually is right now. Well, it's often helpful to just imagine I the space, I think, and, you know, the analogies I've heard that I find are helpful are think about a wheelchair accessible bathroom stall. That's about the size of most solitary confinement cells around eight by ten feet and prisoners. Spend twenty three or more hours a day in that space. That's why my book is called twenty three seven twenty three or more hours a day, seven days a week. You know in a typical week if a facility is well run a prisoner would be able to leave the cell, maybe two or three times a week for a shower or to go out to an exercise yard, those yards are often called dog runs kind of as you can imagine, like the space, the space, a tunnel might have they're just a little bigger than the cells, and give people a little bit of access to open air, usually. And that's to say that the rest of the time prisoners in cells that are usually windowless fluorescent lights are usually on twenty four hours a day, depending on the prison system. They may or may not have access to things as simple as a television or radio. So usually if prisoners in solitary, they've behaved for a couple of weeks or months, they might get access to something Mike radio or television. But sometimes they don't even have that, and they have basically no human contact. So people in these conditions. If they need to see a doctor lawyer, sometimes that even happens with the prisoner in a cage at best, they'd have handcuffs on their hands and feet often with their hands cuffed to their waste also. And if a family member, does visit them often these places are incredibly far away from urban areas. But if family member is able to visit that visit would be behind glass, so there would be no contact in that context either. So those are kind of just gives you a basic sense of, of the conditions. It can talk more specifically about it too, if that raises other questions. Yeah. Well, I mean the way you described it. And again, I think this is may be drawing on things. I've picked up in media that may not be true. Is that it is it sounds as, if a person who would be subjected to that would have to be deeply violent to, to warrant that kind of treatment. What is what are people who go into solitary confinement? Actually, like you know what times types of crimes? They've committed is there are there things about that population that hold true across the population or is there, much more variety than that. So people end up in solitary confinement in a number of ways of the same. That's most important to understand about these conditions are that prisoners, get sent there based on in prison behavior at administrative decisions. So no one has sent to solitary confinement by judger jury the conditions of your confinement in prisoner determined by prison administrators based on often risk assessments behavior in prison, and that's important. Because sometimes, I think, oh, you commit a series of violent crimes in your son, automatically to salivary that doesn't really happen. So then what do people do in prison that to get sent there, one of two things happens? First person might break, imprison Brule, and be sent to solitary for fixed period of time. Like maybe they have a weapon or they participate in a fight. And usually in that case they'd be through an administrative hearing assigned to solitary for anywhere from a few weeks to a few. Months to sometimes in extreme circumstances, a few years. But that's not the kind of solitary that has gotten so out of control in the United States, that's often called disciplinary segregation, the kind of solitary. It's become really. I often argue overused is called administrative segregation, and that's when someone gets into solitary bas- basically on their status. Their label dangerous by the prison system. So they get a scientist solitary often indefinitely and this was happening. California was up until recently, one of the most common users of this practice, in California, people got validated, his gang members, so that was an administrative process that only required three pieces of evidence in their prison file, and that evidence could be as, as simple as the kinds of tattoos. They had the people. They were writing letters to hanging out with the things they were reading, basically anything we outside of present think of a first amendment right in prison in California. Three of. Those first amendment assertions could've landed you in solitary confinement indefinitely. And that's what happens in a lot of when people get stuck in these conditions for a long time through various processes. They've been labelled as dangerous often as gang members got it. And so, you know, you've been working with folks who have had this be a part of their prison. Stay in a part of their lives. Can you tell us about someone who was in solitary confinement, and how it ended up affecting them? And then maybe we can use that to pivot into sort of general effects one I write about in my book. A prisoner named Renee in Rica's, who was associated with the Mexican mafia. So a major gang in California and presented gang spent decades in solitary confinement. He's may be more what people the kind of person people would imagine might end up in solitary rate. He's someone who admits he was gang member. And he was he was a leader. He describes in some ways, you know, the conditions over over years, really changed his relationship to, to the gang into himself. Off and he automatically began to work really closely with gang investigators and FBI in order to visit in prison. Slang this is called snitching but, but he debriefed basically, right? He said, I don't want to be a member of the game anymore. I wanna I wanna kinda help this system work against these gangs. So that's one story. Right. That someone who may be wasn't there merely because he had the wrong tattoo. But then another person I write about in my book, I called, Johnny. He was someone who went to prison. He actually went to present with a life without parole sentence when he was very young. He was a teenager when he was sentenced. So these are the kinds of sentences that are now being called into question in the United States, and he joined a gang in prison in part for protection or, or the prison system, alleges he joined a gang often is very disputed know what, what constitutes joining a gang in how high up where you, but he was someone who had the kinds of touches that suggested he was a member of a gang and he was sentenced to. He was he was assigned to celebrate. Because of that, because of the tattoos in who was associated with. And he's been more than a decade in, in term solitary confinement. Pelican bay California's name supermax that I write about. Wasn't able to touch his sister for years. So I got to know his sister, actually when he was resentenced from his life, without parole sentence, and not able to touch, you're not able to give his nieces and nephews who were born while he was imprisoned hug until more than a decade later. So those kinds of things, I think give you a sense of just the day-to-day depravities, that people experience in these conditions running in Rica's rates about not having seen the moon or an animal for years at a time in how amazing it is to, to just see even prisoners about how amazing to see a an aunt or spider in your cell or if you happen to see a bird fly overhead when you're out in the exercise yard, that, that just is become such an important moment. And I think that's speaks to how restrictive these conditions are. I can also see that someone from the perspective of maybe someone in law enforcement who. Thinks that these practices are fulfilling a purpose and necessary to hear the story of, of, of Rene and say, well, this person wasn't solitary for decades, and they ended up helping you know, the police essentially dismantle again and turning against what could have been, you know, violent way of life. So how is that what we want isn't that what this is supposed to do? Well, there are a few answer to that one is that there aren't very many Rene Rica's is in the prison system, even though we had attended the prison system is filled with them, right? There aren't that many top gang leaders by definition. And so I often, try to separate the conversation between, you know, we have to think about the difference between the guy who has the wrong tattoo, who went to prison when he was seventeen or eighteen or nineteen and had no way to even maintain his own safety. And the guy who went to prison in stablest, gang member. And so, I think one really important thing and states that are engaging in reforms have done. This is just to say, okay, we're over using this practice and let's make sure that we don't have anyone who. Has the wrong tattoo isolation for fifteen twenty years. And so that's one piece. Another piece is just thinking about the durations of this confinement. That putting someone in these conditions for five ten fifteen years is, is really extremely United Nations says that more than thirty days can constitute cruel inhuman, degrading treatment, if not torture, and we're talking about ten times that in many cases, and then we do have a really difficult population of people of which, you know, some might argue Renee in Rica's Representative, and there we have to think about well is this working for them? And one thing to say about someone like Rene is for a long time he was able to maintain his leadership of the game from within solitary confinement. Even in spite of all of the restrictions on his conditions in his communication in so one really important question about these practices. Well, okay, maybe sometimes people ultimately debrief and help law enforcement, but in between right in between those fifteen to twenty years that person in. In solitary homeless. Are we spending on that practice and was keeping us safe inbetween, right? And the evidence is really thin on, whether it's working in between, even if in the rare case, you automatically get is outcome that some law enforcement might argue was what they were angling for. It's pretty, you know, we're talking about in California, eighty thousand dollars more per person per year to keep someone in these conditions of confinement. That's a lot of time in money on a gamble that we haven't studied very well for sure. And you know, you've mentioned how this is really a growing trend. We set at the top of the episode, you know, there's this history of cream court saying, really don't think this is going to be around for awhile in, so it's interesting to see how that did not happen. And in your book, you, you know, you take care, too short the resurgence of the practice. So can you tell us about, you know, was there? What was that pivot point win? Did we see solitary confinement, making such a comeback, all your in my book that solitary? But, you know, when we see solitary confinement again comeback most obviously, is just as part of mass incarceration. So in the nineteen eighties states started sentences gang longer, where people are being sent to prison state started building more prisons. So over the course of the eighties nineties, California, for instance where where my research is based in which has been a leader in this phenomenon for better or worse, California, twenty three new prisons over over this period. And so one way, people have understood solitary confinement. It was it was just part of this massive expansion in criminal Justice system happening over the eighties nineties, but argue that we have to look a little more deeply historically to understand the practice ended its really rooted in unrest in prisons in the nineteen seventies so to really important events that people talk about are the uprising at Attica in nineteen seventy one and also the death of George Jackson who was a bestselling author at the time. Well known. Radical some argued associated with the Black Panthers also in nineteen seventy one in California. So those are just two events. Both in nineteen seventy one on either coast of the US Representative of other kinds of unrest, happening across prisons in the US that prison officials saw as very racially charged. They saw people as organizing to, to change prison conditions in organizing along racial lines and often prison officials terrorize those organizers as gang affiliates, and it was following those events. That institutions were locked down meeting people were kept in their cells indefinitely. And that's what the new solitary confinement, prisons, supermax is like pelican bay in California or eighty x federal supermax best, those institutions were built to institutionalize to physically create a space could maintain these lockdowns permanently in response to this unrest in the prisons. Okay. And so how widespread. Red than is the use of solitary confinement these days. Like do we know what proportion of cells out of supermax prison like how, how do you quantify that? So I always love this question, because it's such a nice chance to talk about how little we know about confinement, even though it's a practice we've been investing millions of dollars in for decades now. So there's actually debase about how many people are in solitary confinement across the United States. In what proportion of cells are used for this practice. That's because America basically has fifty one state prison systems, not to mention all the jails, so every, so every state has a different system, and then there's the federal system and everyone has their own labels and practices in policies. And so these kinds of things, especially practices, like solitary confinement that tend to be hidden both because they're so criticized and because it's literally a prison within a prison ended administrative process. It's really hard to get consistent information across states. But the latest estimates are. Are that around eighty thousand people across the United States or in these conditions of confinement? There's been some great work out of Yale, the law school in collaboration with professional associations of correctional administrators to try to really get a better handle on, on these numbers track this and generally estimate. I give is in any prison system. It's often around five percent of the prison population in these kinds of conditions, and of course, one of the prisons, that does have a lot of solitary confinement cells is pelican bay in California. That's the prison from the title of your book. Tell us a bit about that prison. It's particular history, pelican bay opened in the late nineteen eighties with a thousand fifty six beds designed for long term solitary confinement. This is prison on California's northern border. With Oregon kind of northern most rural reaches of state. So this is a place hard to get to where when prisoners get fed up there. They're being rated takes a good six seven. Hours from San Francisco and ten or twelve from Los Angeles prisoners are being set up there, not for a couple of weeks. They're kind of being, you know, people might even you abandoned up. There says prison opens in nineteen eighty nine and prisoners are sent there from across the state of the time and some of the prisoners who were sent their never left. So, you know, pelican bay opens in nineteen eighty nine and in the early two thousands. There's hunger strikes there and it comes out there more than five hundred prisoners who've been at pelican bay from more than ten years continuously in the kinds of conditions. I described at the beginning of our conversation. The denim is that there's been litigation in California, major reforms since I wrote my book and pelican bay is slowly being converted to a minimum security prison. A journalist recently sent me a picture of prisoners painting, a beautiful landscape garden. Euro on the solid concrete wall that prisoners used to stare at for. For years at a time under these fluorescent lights on the, you know, the just the visuals space is changing, and it's purposes changing the state is trained to reduce its reliance on long-term solitary. So knowing what we know about the criminal Justice system in how it can be discriminatory against certain groups of people. Do we see that play out in who's put in solitary confinement as well? You know, you talked about some of the different criteria that administrators used for deciding whether individual prisoner goes into solitary, but does that end up looking different for different racial groups say, how does that play out with the entire California prison population? Absolutely. I often say that I think prisons are really interesting to study because they're like a magnifying glass of social problems around raised in education in healthcare inequality. I think solitary confinement is especially interesting to study because it's a even further magnifying glass on our prisons and so, you know when you talk about who's in solitary, it's often. The most difficult people from across the prison system, whether that's people who are not mentally healthy or people who are members of gangs, or people who just don't fit transgender people pregnant women end up in solitary confinement, because it's not clear else in this system, you put them. And so just as our prisons have disproportionate racial impact in BC that depending on the state more Africans and more, Latinos tend to end up more African Americans and Latinos, send end up in business than in our population that is manifested again in solitary confinement. So in California, the majority of people in solitary confinement, are Hispanic as the state labels Latinos, and the state explains, that, that seems like it's discriminatory on its face state explains, that saying the gangs, they're most concerned about our Latino gangs. So it makes sense that those are the people who end up in solitary confinement. But when you look across the US where people have been able to get data study this, it looks like solitary confinement is even more ratio. Disproportionate than our prisons systematically across the country. So it does raise concerns about whether this practice is discriminatory. And then, of course, there's a problem that at least to me was a bit less. Obvious is not something I thought about before engaging with your work, which is how folks are released from solitary confinement. Again, I think, because of this idea that someone in solitary confinement is maybe a violent criminal who is there for maybe not getting out of prison at all. You know, you don't think about these other in prison infractions, or maybe the sort of other arbitrary reasons for why someone is being housed there. But it turns out people are being released directly. Sometimes from solitary confinement when their terms on can you can you tell us about that? And what that impact would be on reintegration. Absolutely. And this was something I hadn't thought about for I started doing this. It's actually one of my favorite stories from my research. Is that I needed information request to the California Department of corrections trying to understand really basic things about. Who was in solitary confinement like age in the race things we've been talking about why they were there how long they spent their this was before the hunger strikes. And the data came out about the effect that there were these five hundred people who'd been there more than ten years. So I was trying to get that kind of information and the state didn't have it readily available, one of the interesting things they told me was, they founded beds, not people in so they could tell me if cell was full or not. But they had trouble telling how long especially over time how long people were sending in solitary and, and so instead, they gave me this outta simple. What we do is we could for people who've been released we could say, how long they've been there. And so why don't we give you dad on that relation? And then they provided the data to Munich turned out that around one hundred people a months in some years, recovering directly out of solitary confinement onto the streets of California. That was something I never imagined was happening even understanding the system, right? That prisoners writers were sending people to solitary, and so win their sentence expired, they'd have to be released because. Principals can't keep someone on their sentence, even if they have labeled them dangerous. So even understanding that I was surprised by the scale of this problem at to me, it's, it's a really important example of why we have to study these kinds of hidden places and studied them with really open ended questions because I didn't even know that was a question I needed to be asking about what that experience is like, once I had that data, I've ended, the work to try to interview people who'd had that experience. So to try to find former prisoners who had been released directly from solitary confinement onto the streets, as you can imagine. It's pretty her find these people, first of all, as, as we sort of hinted at it spending as long solitary confinement can have serious, psychological consequences, including, especially not being that excited to meet you, people are being unfamiliar places, and being pretty socially disconnected. So the people I was able to find an interviewer people who were really, truly the survivors, who, who were socially connected enough, it when I reached out to reentry organizations, instead, I'm interested in this popular. Mission. They followed up with knee. We make actions and people talk about, you know, even even years after being released struggling with the consequences of the years spent in solitary confinement, one of one of the most consistent things I hear is that people to people who survived develop incredibly rigid routines, get up at five AM, I do establish end pushups. Situps jumping jacks, so rigid, exercise routine. You know, a clean my cell from from Florida ceiling almost compulsively, and those they talk about this revived by relying on that routine, and they get out in have. Trouble letting go that is still get up at five in the morning. Do that intense, exercise routine one have total control over the cleanliness of, of their space in their interactions. Because that's a way they can maintain themselves when, when they didn't have other options. We reach the part of the show where we'd like to focus when possible on solutions at next steps given your research, and especially with. Some of this new information coming out of California specific to the site that you used for your data collection. Where do we start with reforming this system? What do you think needs to change? I what do you think needs to be changed at all? Because again, I'm thinking, we know the high costs we know these psychological effects and we also can see why from certain viewpoints. I mean, there might be people working inside the system where people who think a certain way about criminal Justice generally who say, yeah, I mean too bad. But what else do you suggest right? And this is this is where the story gets, perhaps a little more hopeful than the one, I was able to tell in my book, because of the drastic reforms that have happened over the past few years across the United States around this practice. So one thing that I think is central to understanding reforming the practice is transparency and oversight and simple. You know, it shocking the California ten years ago when I started this research. Couldn't tell me how many people had been in solitary confinement. How long over south over pelican Bay's existence an I'm a researcher. And so when I say, we need more data, it's somewhat self interested. But I think that the story of pelican bay actually shows the incredible power of data in social change. So when those prisoners got together and started refusing food to protest the conditions of their confinement. Pelican bay people started paying attention, and it was at that moment that a journalist said, okay, maybe you don't have the data about historically, how long over time, people have been here, but can you tell me today? How many people at pelican bay have been more than ten years in the prince at? Oh, yeah. Today. They're five hundred people who've been there more than ten years, just snap shot data and that single piece of evidence about those five hundred people, but came the impetus for class action case that group of five hundred prisoners within within a year was certified as class to challenge the conditions of their confinement, and especially the process by which they were. Place there indefinitely. Can you place us? I can you just say when the suit took place, I think we missed the time period that we're talking about. Yes. So the first hunger strike at Hellequin bay was in two thousand eleven and then in two thousand twelve it was, so it was the lead plaintiff in the class, action case was was a man named hot Ashqar. And so it's, it's known as the Ashqar case, and he was one of these five hundred guys who'd been there more than ten years, they were certified as a class at the net that litigations actually still ongoing because the state, although all of those guys are now out of pelican bay and many of them are in general population across California. There's still questions about whether prisoners are being locked down kind of in the seventies style, what, you know, whether they're actually getting enough time out of their cell in how much conditions have changed, but, but pelican bay at least a change in many of these guys have experienced improvements in their conditions again as a result of this, this moment of having access to data bows of. The prisoners raising awareness of what their conditions were like through their through their own organizing, and that being a moment where it was public pressure to let journalists in actually see this place was like the United Nations special repertoire torture commented on pelican bay at the time as a result of those hunger strikes. Let journalists in for the first time in years. And that kind of light and data data we were able to get about the institution of light that was able to be shed on it. I think really was an important piece of the change that we saw similarly, the data, I got about how people are released directly from solitary new, you can imagine that the, the social response being on my God. Let's not release them, but another responses, ninety five percent or more of all prisoners, eventually get out. And if we know they're gonna come home and be our neighbors. Maybe we wanna think more carefully about how we treat them in the interim. And I think that has been more Representative of the social response around knowledge, that many states release people directly from solitary, even in Colorado, where a guy was released directly from Sal. -tary and actually murdered the very progressive reform oriented director of the state prison system that became a for reforming, Colorado to where they said, okay, we've got a we've got a reduce our reliance on solitary. Make sure there's transition programs for these kinds of people not saying, like will, let's make sure we never let any of them out because can have a growing sense that, that's just not a viable policy. Thank you so much for, for sharing your research, on your thoughts with us. Of course, it's, it's been really interesting talking with you. Thanks for your great questions. And thank you for listening from Dr raiders research. Check out our show notes scholars dot org slash note. Jargon, as always know jargon, is the podcast, the scholars strategy, network nationwide, association of over thirteen hundred researchers and forty seven states, the producer of our show is Dominic Dermot, and our sound engineer is jammed bias. And if you like today's show subscribe and rate us on apple podcasts or ever, you get your shows, you can give us feedback on Twitter at new jargon podcast or our Email address no jargon at scholars dot org.

California United States pelican bay pelican bay prison Representative Rene Rica Pelican bay California university of California Irvin United Nations Rica Renee writer California Department of corre associate professor FBI Barrick Lizzie Hellequin bay
DDFP heads to Rams camp

NFL: The Dave Dameshek Football Program

31:11 min | 1 year ago

DDFP heads to Rams camp

"Dave damage football programs available on Apple Apple podcasts at N._F._l.. Dot Com slash fees now. Here's your host Jay Damage Alot football fans fans. I hope all is well wherever you are welcome to the Dave Damasec football program presented by Amazon prime streaming on Amazon prime right now though boys <music>. I'm anxious to watch it again. It's a superhero. It's a take on superheroes where they're not looking to do good for society rather than looking to do good for for themselves. Is that right Spaghetti China. I've binged the whole thing on video stream like they've said it's basically comic books finding out able but the <hes> yeah it's these power they call him the Sup- powers and they do do good deeds they also use our and it's a very very messy kind of storyline that sets them against the government is against a group of boys who are against these superheroes is an all sorts of rubbish. I get all right. We're here at Rams Camp Not in studio sixty six at the University of California Irvine glad-handing glad-handing with all the rams and as a matter of fact as we get into it with Eric Weddell Wade Phillips coming up here in just a second. Let's pick it up just a couple minutes before that when the Gaggle Eagle fan surrounding where we're set up just off of one of the one of the fields here <hes> and he spaghetti was here from some guy owns rams fans and one guy wanted to bad mouth this paper for so. Let's start it. There are day and L._A.. Rams Kim Dave didn't add that don't they are coming up in the old man bill one of the guys every the night before the Super Bowl and Philip Louis catching up number one of the new Vlado Woah so on and so a year removed from being a Baltimore raising meantime meantime Guy Shallower. They're all ran. Everybody's wearing ram horns all the there's one guy. I don't know why he keeps announcing that the giants are garbage and I feel like that's directing you feel as if the band or just randomly talking about how your favorite pro football team John I mean it's super user giants good. Can you explain he said Daniel Jones here said Daniel Jones who said the installation of taking my friend day and do that I'll say an old. I don't think he's making T._v.. Starts in all the other joining me jared by your members n._F._l.. Honors a couple of years ago when I give everybody underrate <music> athlete asked him. I'm not doing so never take notice recently just superb the Gerry goffin battling who's also expected Michael here supreme shame. I wanted to look like news. I want everybody to be tight as I see what you're saying all right well. The giants fan has long so we can now use on the matter at hand time still like I say air wet all what would order. Do you want to go in. Eh Spaghetti Eric Waddel bill nuclear. I get a player for okay here. He is one of the great safeties of the twenty first century Ludi the rams. Let's see the missing easier. Let's awesome about that and a number of other items. Here's Eric Weddell <music>. Let's get down to business here. Let a welcome to Las Angeles. Welcome back to southern California big chain free from last year. Let's talk about the Baltimore days very quickly. <hes> one play in particular. I always I wanted to ask you for three years now. Christmas Day I field last play of the Game Antonio Brown scores a touchdown despite your best efforts the people now you realize you face me right and you have done away with and there would be no replay on anything now. I know you would have won the division on their way. Did you have any feelings about I got away with. You don't feel bad about that all right. We'll move forward then I like the fact that U N no beard or neither here because it always seems to me heavy beard must be an extra week literally and figuratively I then they get all sweaty hard defiant A._T.. Hispanic distraction and bring you. Do you feel like <hes> one eight now that you come out defending I mean defending N._F._C. everything. You've been back to Utah days as a leave. That's that's how I how you are perceived to be a guy who rally yeah no no no no gallagher football. I'm not questioning the abilities. I knew I need a lor of Air Weddell back in the Utah Utah Days. I Her the Rams had won the Super Bowl. You feel I mean you could go there or like. I say missing logic Sepia like maybe I will be different and I'll be the hero in any of the it is Aaron. Donald obviously not hyperbolic say one of the great defense of N._F._l.. From what you can say I mean from what you've seen around now is. He's the best player in the conversation near Gabriel value it. That's all <music>. Ah Do you feel is there some especially with the way the guys in pro football period and John McCain it did say something jumps out from other stuff on the way very secure with themselves. They expect out of there. We have that no doing things for no reason always as the wire. Why would you expect to raw hitting your work? We don't get working uh-huh. Have you seen over detail making all quarterbacks. The system blurred even three. It's now a one of all been so it'd be interesting. I agree with the last question is a fascinating Assamese at your hand style feared the seriousness and all that that's the gold warns Royal Majority White School I in the the era glad those without saying anyway great athletic specimens as soon as well as a dynamite leader. He said beyond that <music> every stop all get out more. I don't know yes anyway whiz Eric in the sequel Dave Davidge ached for what it's worth. I am at minimum tree to see that what he's Ah what then at the very least what I my prediction as hobbies you will see something like what you saw. Maybe four four or five years ago when the seahawks were at the height of their powers that the week after you play the seahawks does stand to lose an inordinate number because they were so physically beat down by it. I think the ravens the way it's going to be kind of like with navy running. It's PERP walks in a few years ago that the teams had a weird losing percentage after after college football teams such a curve ball such knuckleball compared to what every other teams doing that. That's they say yeah obviously things change here last year stats code all the ravens they have six Makita the worst against really on the ball far the working room by the way that reminds me to go back and listen to <hes> while we're talking A._F._C.. North stuff back one Andrew New N._F._l.. Media and surge run on six earlier in the week. Go back and listen to that interesting Baker Mayfield like Sam Darnold Alati like saquon Barkley alive but he likes so many other guys have been around the block once or twice seem to see something different about Baker Mayfield so so anyway go back into that but there with some interesting thoughts that's about the greatest fear them ballots talking to the guy who's going to be coaching. Both those guys the guy who I mentioned I mean he's been around the pro football for literally decades and decades now came up under his old man bum Phillips I remember him on the Houston Oilers coaching staff staff and won the Super Bowl a few years back coaching the broncos defense so <hes> so dynamite now in the twenty nineteen at Oh Harry Donald all the rest of those fouls coach by one of the more delightful around Phiri is everybody. It's all right. I don't know that I've looked forward to conversation more than it's been two years. I paid defensive coordinator store and the likely human being Wade Phillips. Are You sir nice looking forward to to try and of course you're not because I was watching an old games is a of As many as much as any your father and the median is before the Super Bowl it well. I WanNa get to anything else. He doesn't mean Joe Greene namedrop told me a couple years and probably father and the chargers Bogan seven and I was talking to me and he said let me the the really I was afraid to seeing them again. Dan that when the oilers went out the Asian allow our three the best I called up from Philip and I told him town from Dan South down for it. It might be enough enough to survive against the mighty charge any recollection as he's your father the game in every the and one of the great upsets and then you almost about just the sat all business you agree with com- we didn't need any yeah yeah go. Oh that's actually what would have happened. Do you make Sir what you're saying. Hey who actually the first year they won the Cincinnati Caridi since they were wonderful. It was friendly on and still you. You can't see the N._F._L.'s getting away from ever again tonight. CAVILL would a how do you represent what bomb would be twenty nineteen in the N._F._l.. With every place for a character like that not just degree head coach put a guy who was really an outspoken guy and Greek one liners decide Muhammad Ali too. Many sports fans the father how much I don't WanNA WANNA. Bring up. Bring it up with the last night football game. We are watch receivable. Atlanta is a steeler fan. I'm I'm a quarter century later. Still Father Super Bowl thirty and shutdown generate offense offense the DALLAS cowboys instill that in the hours of the morning I mean how do you rate at least the rains defensive performance orman against Tom. Brady one the UH it was weird seeing here Donald Down on the practice field hearing. I haven't seen that in in a number <music>. Can you imagine it. Does you know hyperbole aside. He is really emerged now. Pretty is pretty clear that the minimum perhaps on the player period I do you think let's see let's see how high up we can get. Aaron gone up the defensive tackle mouth superbowl air players. Let's start here warned South one. One of the brains media take head to head there. Let's take one step and we started here. We go up over that several. In how the would you go all right so now for no reason while I mean yeah we go so donald in all due respect to Sabbath Randy White Beer Donald over evaluate. He's up there. I'm GONNA say the voice minutes. You'd be the idea guy. I think all you seen over the Super Bowl era at the really accused the all time. Perhaps you can do that age with a hundred choose the superbowl air exactly. Can you appears forty year while let's I love doing the what if what if this game had gone the other way what does that moment and gone the other way. If you don't mind dip into another postseason game awful Oh bill if we survived the game there is no miracle in music city Doug Flutie the following implied Roger. I can imagine a scenario where lead in the following paid manning in Indianapolis and maybe the the Harvey Debate I could see far and what about you get the Green Bay packers coming down the Dow was Rome on comedy. Do we regard properly or broadcast booth megan higher than these raw deal this amount one game. Well you talking so you you could take. He doesn't have to any strokes Komo real. What do you think thank God? It's let's go back to nineteen. seventy-nine say round the mouth or seventy nine. You stop drink drink football. I don't know what we're going to do. You wake up in twenty nineteen. What about broken water agree? Most striking differences over the forty forty two years from Dan's Ball uh-huh following are the quarterback better or is easier because of the roof of course of course every moment. Do you think last question do you think anyway somehow so battery supposing in Wakefield to your delightful by everybody Sonos new songs of our. What a nice man you are? We appreciate you giving us time and it's legitimately wonder rose for me. Maybe you wore your jacket really girl for me to see well. That's what you see in two thousand nineteen good health all your fellas and the hopefully we'll see you back and that's very wild shootouts it. I couldn't hear him. I feel bad so excited that the way that got all this time. Frankly you know no jive. I couldn't really I couldn't hear someone. Thank you seeing nicer did did he sisters grandfather wanted around feeding say means. He's a sweet man but also I mean obviously mice Gary Connick slings years on top all star trek pretty crazy crazy and that is right. He'll guy to lay out the Super Bowl era starting eleven with the AH yeah we started to little extra calories just to Cherry pick the players that he's minded coach. The only pear dials a bunch of you know attention favors pro bowl martyrs these guys yeah well I mean he has gained press hairs Hyun years <hes> yeah yeah anyway well good times out here U._C._i.. And we'll be back in studio sixty six early next week in the Moon John thanks for the rams jammed for <hes> for glad-handing with us our guy hacker this little boy around Sweden Man <hes> and <hes> we caught up with Gerald Everett a little bit the guy who let me hang in that game policy us nice there wasn't I t apologize again which he could be in for like to do after you shame me on on the national stage all right Eddie Spaghetti. Let's get McCarthy for go get a beer. I need any kind of this. This has that feel to it like people been talking about this with the best dear this this could be up there. This could be like a top five hundred year old time so hot out. I don't yeah it's just it wasn't as bad star Aram shirt last year and a thousand people don't understand California's northward right now south that was closer today not as bad but just know Shane for us. What's a nice fresh if you watch the video show which you can do it n._F._l.? Dot Com. I am slash E._S._p.. You'll see drippings quite sweaty so be on the last because I'm working hard on your drying man. I don't like it when people in this business. Let's talk about how they're talking about. Full Brian Enough Anyway. I'M NOT GONNA complain but it was hot and sweaty about the black. What did I do that? I'm not sure anyhow all right listen. We

football rams Harry Donald John McCain Eric Weddell Wade Phillips California Baltimore Dan South Rams Camp Aaron giants Philip Louis Amazon Dave Damasec Apple seahawks Jay Eric Weddell University of California Irvin
Creators build audiences online, but an algorithm can wipe it out in an instant

Marketplace Tech with Molly Wood

06:17 min | 1 year ago

Creators build audiences online, but an algorithm can wipe it out in an instant

"This. Marketplace podcast is brought to you by ultimate software dedicated to putting people first with innovative solutions for HR payroll and talent management. Learn more at ultimate software dot com. Ultimate software people first and by Oregon state, university campus wanna take the fast track to your career and computing, earn your computer science degree one hundred percent online from Oregon state and tap into unlimited career possibilities in any field. Learn more at e campus dot Oregon, state dot EDU slash tech. You might build a life online, but an algorithm can wipe it out in an instant from American public media. This is marketplace tech demystifying the digital economy. I'm Molly would. People who try to build a career as creators on YouTube may put all their creativity and time an identity into the platform while on the other end of the screen an algorithm can take away their ability to make money by what's called demonetizing videos or just giving the videos a lower priority in its recommendation engine one year ago today, a YouTube creator shot three people at that company. San Bruno headquarters before killing herself a police investigation concluded that when YouTube demonetized her channel it took away. Quote, a critical part of who she was Catherine low is a visiting researcher at the informatics department at university of California Irvine. She said the relationship can feel very one sided it can be difficult to gauge how urgent this feels in part because people kind of just accept the conditions of their engagement with a platform, and you often see outraged manifest when there's a big event that happens say, there's a takedown of a video or. Suddenly somebody's seeing very few views relative to what they had before. And what's also difficult to see is are people using their interaction with the algorithm as a scapegoat. Or is it because you know, they they were kind of wrong by the algorithm. And, you know, people people do notice at one point or another that he'd yeah, they don't have a lot of control over the system. And I think it does become increasingly urgent the more that creators across platforms talk to each other. Is there a sense that it could impact business like we'll would creators leave? Is there an argument that would say you have to create a sense of agency with your creator? So they don't stop uploading to YouTube. I think YouTube is not overly worried at this point about creators leaving. And I think this is a problem when you have effective monopolies over certain types of content, but you do see Facebook. And and also streaming is getting bigger as a form of media creation that there. Our competitors on the scene innocence. So that might happen. But for uploading video YouTube has such a significant monopoly that it's it's hard to see how threatened they could be is there like a big lesson. Would you say is there an overarching take away from the last year and kind of how we've seen this relationship? Evolve. I think that creators the same way you see with gig economy workers, I think a lot of them are starting to think about unions. Tell me more about that. Are you seeing that happen is that that that a structured movement in the YouTube space? I think it is really difficult to collect people in a sense because you to does have a very wide range of creators, you you have people who have five thousand subscribers and you have people who five hundred thousand and five million, and they all have very different interests. But I've seen various groups come together some of them working with governmental bodies. And we'll see Catherine low is a visiting researcher at the informatics department at the university of California Irvine, we asked YouTube for comment, the company said that on the one year anniversary of last year shooting it's focused on the wellbeing of its employees. And now for some related links a little more on this ongoing tension between YouTube the algorithm and its creators one complaint from creators is that the outcome seems to reward and promote sensational or risque content, which can then backfire and get a channel band. We did some reporting last week about how platforms often recommend increasingly extreme content and activists say it can actually radicalize people online. So YouTube is also trying to contend with how to minimize that extreme content, and fact advertisers have boycotted the service over their ads showing up on hateful, racist or sexist videos. In fact, these are the issues that spurred YouTube to make major changes last year to how creators could monetize their videos, basically made the bar a lot higher in July of two thousand eighteen accompany sued YouTube, parent, Google, saying the algorithm changes had made it lose ninety percent of its revenue, but a judge throughout the case agreeing with Google that post. On YouTube is both free and optional and that YouTube has no obligation to place ads on videos. There's a good story on all this in the Orlando Sentinel this week it's a profile of creators who live this, quote, unstable life at the control of YouTube and about how the pursuit of fame online can lead to a tricky balance and promises broken for all involved. I'm Ali would. And that's marketplace tech. This is a PM. Caroline in Brooklyn, New York wrote to tell us she's a longtime fan of marketplace, tech and appreciates the content and the mission thinks Caroline to join her and keeping marketplace tech going strong donate online today. Marketplace dot org, and thanks to Caroline and all the marketplace investors who make our work possible. This marketplace podcast is brought to you by Oregon state university. Campus wanna take the fast track to your career and computing, earn your computer science degree one hundred percent online from Oregon state and tap into unlimited career possibilities in any field. Learn more at e campus dot Oregon, state dot EDU slash tech.

YouTube Oregon Oregon state university visiting researcher Catherine low Caroline San Bruno Facebook university of California Irvin Orlando Sentinel Molly university of California Irvin Google Brooklyn Ali New York one hundred percent one year ninety percent
1161: Why We Feel Stuck in Life and the Secret to Dealing with It by Henri Junttila with Tiny Buddha on Growth Mindset

Optimal Living Daily

08:46 min | 1 year ago

1161: Why We Feel Stuck in Life and the Secret to Dealing with It by Henri Junttila with Tiny Buddha on Growth Mindset

"This is optimal. Living daily episode eleven sixty one why we feel stuck in life and the secret to dealing with it by Henry until with tiny Buddha dot com, and I'm just a molecule, personal narrator. Happy Valentine's Day and welcome to the show where I read blogs to you mostly but sometimes books with permission from the websites. Of course, today's post being from guest author on tiny Buddha before we get to it. Thank you to UCI's continuing education programs. They have a wide range of programs from business to IT healthcare finance law and more spring quarter is coming up and registration is open. Visit C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast and enter the promo code podcast for fifteen percent off. One course that C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast. Enter promo code podcast to get fifteen percent off. One course does offers only valid until March thirty first at eleven fifty nine pm for now's. Right to it. As we optimize your life. Why we feel stuck in life and the secret to dealing with it by Henry until with tiny Buddha dot com. Quote. It is the way we react to circumstances that determines our feelings. Dale carnegie. We've all felt like we're drowning in mud if you'll stock worthless in confused you want to move me should you have to. But you can't and it involves into Zayed fear in overwhelm. But what if just what if being stuck isn't the problem, but how we perceive it the truth about being stock every year I've periods where by feel stuck yet. When I looked closer. I see that being stuck is a label. I give to a natural part of life is time when not much happens things ID comes on. I think it should be. Otherwise, I start to force myself to work to come up with ideas and to make things happen. And when I don't get anywhere. My call it being stuck. So what is being stuck except the way I perceive life as a right this. I've been in. Stuck period for the last few months, the differences that my struggle less? He's beginning to let it be. Why we get stock? You get stock when you think you should be something you're not when you think life should be different than it is. I know I'm trying to force myself to do something when words like should have to and must enter my mind. My relax and surrender to this quiet period in my life things seem okay, I see that I can't control life. I can only notice will life brings to me the secret to being stuck completely being stock his eye quicksand, the more you try to get out the deeper, you sink, my mind wants to push control and manipulate his stems from insecurity. I wanna be secure be bluffed. And be remarkable. I think that if I could just control life all would be well is not until I face reality that things begin to lift here. Three things. I do. Number one, give up when you're stock surrender to being stock. I noticed the thoughts and feelings within me that say that I'm stock and that something is wrong. If I stay completely in this moment, there is no being stuck. There's only the label of a situation a label that I've invented based on what I think my life should look like why noticed all this going on. I breathe a deep sigh of relief. But that doesn't mean that the feelings go away, I might still feel the anxiety. But it doesn't have a death grip on me anymore. I could see the play of thoughts like in surrender to what comes and I still fall into resisting from getting better at letting it be what it is. I'm getting better at enjoying being stock. The funny thing is that when we enjoy being stuck we're not stuck anymore because being stuck was mall in our head number to enjoy yourself. There's always something you feel drawn to do during these periods. You're not completely stuck not in every area of. Your life right now. I'm reading books, I'm playing with my son. I'm watching movies and TV shows the British version of Sherlock is amazing. And on occasion. I'm writing articles like this expressing what I feel. I do the work I need to do. But then I let myself have fun is easy for me to feel guilty during this period because I feel like I'm not doing enough prov learn to see that. I'm doing the best. I can it's another example of getting stuck in the story that I tell myself, I am who I am. I'm doing what I can do that's enough. And right now that means doing less, the title shifts soon enough, the same is true for you. Do what you can. But go easy on yourself number three right at times when I feel truly stock. My right. I don't have a system or structure, I get a piece of paper. And I write I like to write by hand, the old fashioned way seems to clear my head more than reading on my computer what I do is write down everything going on in my head. No, censoring. No looking back. I let everything come out, especially the nasty bits the more. I do this the more. I notice repeating patterns as he hi wanna change. What is and how futile it is the more aware, I become the more these things fall away. We truly become aware of what goes on inside your head. He start to like, go big z see how you create your own suffering. My biggest mistake when we resist. What is we suffer? That's true for anything in life. When I tried to change. What is I poisoned myself from the inside out? But with time I've learned see my resistance as a sign to relax to see that. I can only do my best with what I have. Then it's outta my hands. There's no pushing needed life lives itself through me because I am life. I'm not separate from anything or anyone my m this planet. I am the stars IM you I sometimes wonder why we think we are not supported in life. When we come into this world through a womb where we're supported the trees in the forest are supported it. We believe were the exception. Are we might think we are? We just think that life should look different than it does. But the fact that life isn't what you think it is shows that you're wrong. Let things be whether you feel stock for a week or for year doesn't really matter. You do the best you can with what you have something of noticed is that the longer I'm stuck in the more, I surrender to it the more. I learn when I come out of it is the darkest periods of my life that have taught me the most about myself. I've learned that life is in all about accomplishing things sometimes is about resting in letting things be he's periods are no different than the seasons. Their son. There's snow. There's light, and there's darkness once you let it be what it is things change because your perception changes, but beware of making this another thing you have to do be. Kind to yourself. Let yourself be completely stock and let yourself fight it. Because he will. It's all good. You just listen to the post titled why we feel stuck in life and the secret to dealing with it by Henry until with tiny Buddha dot com. And a big thank you to UCI for sponsoring this episode specifically, the university of California Irvine's continuing education programs UC is ranked among the top fifty universities nationally and tenth among all public universities. According to US news World Report. That's why I went there along with my sister and brother, and they're continuing education programs are impressive. You can advance your career in as little as six months taught by expert instructors with industry experience. They have over sixty convenience certificates and specialized studies programs on campus and online designed for the working professional who seeks career Vance -ment and Brazil in Richmond spring quarters coming up and registration is open. Visit C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast and enter the promo code podcast for fifteen percent off. One course that C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast and her promo code podcast to get fifteen percent off. One course his offers only valid until March thirty. I and eleven fifty nine pm in a Lincoln code is in this episode description, and at old podcast dot com as usual, I'll leave it there for today have a great rest of your day. Happy Valentine's Day, and I'll be back tomorrow where your optimal life awaits.

Henry UCI Dale carnegie university of California Irvin US Zayed Vance -ment Sherlock Brazil Richmond fifteen percent six months
1169: The Lost Art of Waiting by Helene Massicotte of Free To Pursue on Personal Growth & Being More Patient

Optimal Living Daily

08:44 min | 1 year ago

1169: The Lost Art of Waiting by Helene Massicotte of Free To Pursue on Personal Growth & Being More Patient

"This is optimal. Living daily episode eleven sixty nine the lost art of waiting by alien mascot of free to pursue dot com. And I'm just a molecule personal narrator, reading blogs to you mostly sometimes books anything that. I think will help you optimize your life and a quick thank you to the continuing education program at UCI, Dave a wide range of programs from business to IT healthcare finance law and more with over sixty convenience or tickets and specialized studies programs on campus and online spring quarters coming up and registration is open. Visit C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast and enter promo code podcast for fifteen percent off. One course that C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast. Enter promo code podcast to get fifteen percent off. One course this offers only valid until March thirty first twenty nineteen at eleven fifty nine pm for now's get right to it. As we optimize your life. The lost art of waiting by an-and mascot of free to pursue dot com. Technological innovation as brought about amazing changes in our lives. We can pretty much do anything anywhere anytime after admit, it's pretty convenient. I love being able to do online banking. Check the weather posts comments search for just about anything get directions. Check stocks manage my schedule and connect with others via Email or social media or messaging all on this little device. I call my phone own. Yes. It still enables me to call people at the touch of a button to there's no denying that. We now have a great deal of power in our hands devices are no longer simple tool. They're almost considered an appendage because we never leave home without it anymore case in point I'm much more likely to forget my wallet than I am to forget my phone like you for me. I don't buy much one on the go. This is an access to technology has also come at a cost where we often hear about is that smartphones are dangerous because people use them to talk or text while driving. Sometimes. Belly consequences caused kids and some adults to spend an increasing mount of time on social media to the detriment of face to face interaction can be hacked resulting in identity theft can be taken by force and sold on the black market can lead to hours of obsessive gaming or gambling and can wrote our privacy now that anyone can take pictures, and or video of you informed, his circumstances and posted for the world to see. And now there's a watch for us to worry about to all of us who use technology on the go are suffering from something far more pernicious than any of the items. You just heard with every tap pinch swiping. Click were allowing a device to change our behavior where relinquishing the art of waiting patience is a virtue learning to wait to be patient is an important skill. It teaches us to stay calm to stay focused on the bigger picture to look at our lives. And what we need and want to do holistically it t-. Ages us to be better people to give other space to give ourselves and others time to think it keeps us content. It keeps us healthy. It keeps us focused. It keeps us sane and used to be far more common than it is today because waiting was while expected patience keeps us content being able to wait for things people activities as helpful on a number of fronts tolerating elapsed time between wanting to do or have something in getting it makes us feel. We have control over our impulses. Feel the sweet anticipation of choosing to wait ponder. Whether that thing or event, a relationship is a fit for us. Maybe I don't wanna buy that sweater. After all maybe I prefer to play volleyball with Tom as opposed to tennis with Jacob. Should I go on vacation optimize, the quality? How we spend our time by proactively planning events as opposed to merely reacting to the demands and requests of others in real time and optimize. Is the use of our resources by giving us time to think about what will provide the greatest return on investment? Patients keeps us healthy by very nature. Patients focuses the locus of control inward it accomplishes. This by reducing or eliminating the strong reaction we can naturally have. And we can't do or have something. Immediately feeling we can stay in control when things don't or can't happen. Immediately freezes to focus on what we can do as opposed to what we can't it focuses us on the possibilities. As opposed to the barriers. Have you ever heard of someone who is overreacting to a small concern being able to think clearly and rationally about how to mitigate the situation, I haven't either the ability to temper our reaction, not only keeps us in a better mood and able to think but also offers a number of health benefits because we don't go into fighter flight mode. Staying calm keeps our blood pressure and heart rate, lower keeps our stress hormones in. Check keeps us breathing. Normally. Enables us to get restful sleep keeps us from sweating. The small stuff literally and figuratively might even keep us from getting an upset stomach a headache or the chills over the long term chronic impatience increases, our stress level and puts us at greater risk of developing a myriad of diseases, including the number one killer in North America, heart disease, patients keeps us focused being able to see the big picture as opposed to focusing on what's going, right or not in the moment. Allows us to make better decisions about what we need and want obsessing over the small hiccups caused by daily inconveniences or responding to the latest push offer by one of our favorite retailers as like using the stock ticker to make investment decisions not likely to lead to good returns over the long term in short our reactions in the moment, and the resulting decisions are not usually what makes the most sense overall planning ahead and purposely spending our resources on what matters makes us feel more in control of ourselves. More productive and more successful as a result. Ultimately, purposeful focused action gives us a pattern of behavior that helps keep our emotional lizard brain at bay. It helps us build willpower based on desires that are greater than the immediate. Once we try to convince ourselves or were the patience makes us stronger. The ability to remove the constant need to be doing something to get comfortable with having a little time to breathe and be in the moment to be comfortable in our own skin to not have what we want right away to just be his potent. It means we don't need anything to feel were enough. There's confidence and equanimity and being able to just be the more. We have this feeling of being enough. The less likely we are to seek comfort and immediate action or things in the need to restore order. When something feels uncomfortable rediscovering the art of waiting must be a little more patient with ourselves with others and with the world in general being. Mindful of how we think and feel is the most powerful tool in moving ourselves toward choices and actions that are more in line with what we want over the long term. You just listen to the post titled the lost art of waiting by Allan Massie, Kat, a free to pursue dot com. And a big thank you again to UCI for sponsoring specifically, the university of California Irvine's continuing education programs were all about learning here. And I attended UCI my brother and sister, both graduated from there, and they're continuing education programs are awesome taught by expert instructors with industry experience. They're program can advance your career as little as six months. They have over sixty convenience tickets and specialized studies programs on campus and online designed for the working professional who sees career advancement and personal enrichment programs cover business to IT law, finance, healthcare and more and you actually get to collaborate with your peers, it's a real immersive online classroom experience spring quarters coming up and registration is open. Visit C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast and enter promo code podcast for fifteen percent off. One course, that's C, E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast and to promo code PA. Cast to get fifteen percent off. One course this offers only vowed until March thirty first twenty nineteen at eleven fifty nine pm only therefore today have a very happy Friday of you're listening in real time. A great start your weekend. And I'll be back tomorrow where your automobile life awaits.

UCI Dave North America volleyball Allan Massie university of California Irvin Tom tennis Kat fifteen percent six months
Buying property is emotional. Tech can help people understand their homes climate risk.

Marketplace Tech with Molly Wood

07:50 min | 1 year ago

Buying property is emotional. Tech can help people understand their homes climate risk.

"This marketplace podcast is brought to you by aqua. The open source digital experience company brands often struggle to find a comprehensive solution to power DRUBEL websites and applications aqueous platform platform enables you to build operate optimize at scale as the open source leader awkward it gives customers around the world the freedom to build tomorrow on their terms learn more aqua dot com and by the Maryland Marketing Partnership. If tech talent means everything to Your Business Think Maryland home of the nation's highest concentration of stem workers they're leading leading universities and proximity to the intelligence community means your business will be surrounded and supported by the best minds in the field. Maryland makes for a smart investment. Make your move at open dot Maryland Dot Gov you buy your Dream House and then here comes. Climate Change Kentucky of homeowners a heads up from American American public media. This is marketplace tech demystifying the digital economy. I'm Ali would rising sea levels along with more severe storms and higher tides meeting places that have have rarely or never flooded are flooding now and when you're making that huge life decision of where to buy a house you kind of want to know if that's going to happen we have digital tools that make it easy to hunt for a house even shop for a mortgage but try to find out the flood risk of any particular piece of property and all of a sudden. You're kind of on your own marketplace. Tech Producer Stephanie Hughes has more when Brian Rankin for a saw his house on Maryland's eastern shore. He had an immediate emotional reaction. I just fell head over over heels in love with it. It's truly unique house. It's all glass walls and it looks very futuristic. In eighteen sixty s kind of way. It's got a big screened Indian porch a dock and it's close to the water really close. It's closer than is now. permitted it's eighty feet from the water and right now. All structures have two hundred feet from the shoreline rankings and actuary that means. It's his job to think about risk yet. He wasn't really thinking about climate related flood risk when he bought this house he he loves boating and swimming and this was a vacation home that has kids and grandkids could enjoy my ideally generations so he bought it. He spent three years renovating it. Then one day his wife pointed pointed him towards a website that showed their waterfront houses. Well quite vulnerable to sea level rise. I didn't look at it very closely because it's it's worrisome. You actually didn't went too much information. No I'm sorry you're right. I don't because to be honest with you. I worry that I don't worry enough and so you know it's like only only so much I can handle. It's a growing business to help. People understand this kind of risk right now. There are bigger companies focused at the institutional level two of them. Jupiter intelligence cents and four twenty-seven both based in the bay area collect and sell data and there are little guys too. I think that most people don't know that we exist Albert. Albert slap is the CEO of coastal risk consulting a startup in Florida five years ago he joined forces with scientists to translate global climate data into customer reports for individuals here's what they're based on an algorithm. ICK software that takes big data and crunches it in the Amazon cloud at down to the the property level the technology can build profiles of the natural hazard and climate risk for every piece of property in the US real estate investors governments insurers and Yep individual. You'll homeowners by the reports. They come with maps and color graphs showing the risk. It's a more readable and more comprehensive alternative to the federal government's flooding maps. Here's here's Melissa Roberts of the nonprofit American led coalition. What homeowners had to rely on was the FEMA maps which are really an alphabet soup a- flood zone designations. Is that are really confusing so you would look up and see you know I'm an A. or a easy or CR v. That alphabet soup of government identified flood zones was actually meant for the insurance industry not regular homeowners. The maps are hard to understand and they don't reflect projections of sea level rise heavy rainfall. Robert says there's a huge opportunity -tunities around this information gap you could easily see something added into Zillow or realtor dot com that had you know a one to ten and scale telling you what your flood-risk could look like and people who already own a property with some flood-risk might pay for more information. We bought a report from coastal risk consulting forty nine dollars to assess risk on that glass vacation home on the riverbank in Maryland Brian rank and read through it. I'm looking at the first page and I know right away that you know. This is my property. You know you can see our doc the Judson in the river when he gets to the page on tidal flooding it predicts his party will deal with it. Well pretty much every day by by the year twenty thirty four so what's he going to do now is a great question. I mean I just finished the. I want to enjoy it but then you think about what's going to happen like you know it's. It's an on thing to have a second home. It's like you're plus. If you have a place in the water you're just lucky but he when you start thinking long term you know looking at this map and seeing what's going on the world probably will be a bigger factor and selling it that it was buying it as climate change change becomes more tangible climate data could play a bigger role in the real estate market that can complicate buying and selling a house even for one. That's love at first sight. That's marketplace workplace Tech Producers Stephanie Hughes. You can find our whole climate tech series how we survive at marketplace dot org slash climate and now some related links first of all apologies to Brian Rankin for seriously buzzed killing his vacation house but this question of climate change and how it impacts real estate is gradually becoming a huge deal as more and more commercial locations and houses are impacted by flooding fires extreme whether the New York Times had a story over the weekend about a new study that shows that banks are shifting the mortgages of houses at risk of flooding and coastal areas over to to the federal government. The reason is that if houses are destroyed by flooding owners are much more likely to default on their mortgages. The researchers found that overall also mortgages in coastal areas represent a major risk to the financial stability of banks and this practice of shifting risky mortgages to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac the federally backed mortgage holders means that as the number of flood disasters and hurricanes increase taxpayers will pay a lot more to offset the cost cost of all those lost houses by that story at our website Marketplace Tech Dot Org and shout out to Matt Kata wits twitter for pointing out a story from Alaska public media earlier here this month about a program from the University of California Irvine. That's using artificial intelligence to predict wildfire growth that one's on our website to thanks for the tip about I'm Ali would and that's marketplace tech this is a PM. This marketplace podcast is brought to you by Entercom Intercom. What's more of the Nice people visiting your website to give you money so they took a little chat bubble in the corner website and packed it with conversational bots product tours. NPS surveys all sorts of things that amplify your team and help you reach more nice people in our comm- customer unity got forty five percent more loyal users with entercom. Come in just twelve months go to ENTERCOM DOT com slash podcast to start making money from real time chat then see everything else entercom can do. That's intercom dot com slash podcast.

Maryland Brian Rankin Ali Stephanie Hughes Maryland Marketing Partnership aqua Entercom Intercom FEMA Kentucky Fannie Mae Zillow Albert slap US NPS Melissa Roberts University of California Irvin
Democratizing AI with Anima Anandkumar

Technovation with Peter High (CIO, CTO, CDO, CXO Interviews)

26:16 min | 5 months ago

Democratizing AI with Anima Anandkumar

"Welcome to ovation a weekly conversation with people. Who are shaping the technology landscape. I'm Peter Hi. President of META STRATEGY ADVISOR TECHNOLOGY EXECUTIVES. Ford's columnists author and your host. Each episode of Techno version features insights from top executives thought leaders at the intersection of business technology and innovation. If you like what you hear we'd be grateful that you give us a rating on itunes or through. Whatever other sources you use for podcasts. Please subscribe so you. Don't miss a thing thank you. I guess this week is a Nema Kamara. And he may as the director of machine learning research at video professor into the cure back NAUTICA sciences department attack at Invidia. Mo The research group develops next generation artificial intelligence algorithms meanwhile at Caltech she is the CO director of Dulcet in who leads the AI for science initiative. She's also the youngest name chair. Professor at Caltech University's highest honor previously. Nema worked at Amazon web services in this episode on Mud Discusses The synergy of working in both academia and in industry from her previous visions at aws and the University of California Irvine to our current research. At and Caltech she shares how artificial intelligence can accelerate scientific discovery with engineering capabilities. Such as powerful. Gp Use that continuously push forward at an extremely fast pace. We also discuss what's known as the Trinity of the Deporting Revolution Algorithms Data and compute infrastructure and Nima shares insights on Scaling Self Supervision Techniques Embodied Intelligence and her thoughts on the future of Ai. Finally we end the discussion with an emas mission of globally democratizing in diversifying Ai. Anemia Dhamar welcome to technician. It's great to speak with you today. A Lot Peter for having me on this podcast. It's a pleasure to pleasure so Nima The bread professor of Computing Cal- California Institute of Technology Caltech. You're also director of machine. Learning invidia of NVIDIA. Excuse me and I wonder if you could talk a bit about how you sort out your sets of responsibilities between the two in addition to maybe talking a bit about some of the responsibilities you happened to two sides of your your jobs. Yeah Teeter You know I feel really lucky to be too great institutions In each one of them. I'm Mars surrounded by amazing people and students I worked with To me you know with Getting a I to the next level and being able to do cutting edge research on both sides and flexible appear being given by Caltech and then media to pursue. This is what makes it very exciting. the lead the machine learning research group and a Celtic. I also lead the group on research in an machine learning and so to me time you know the focus on research how has have synergy on both sides. I mean India. There are strands. So that are specific to each institution at Caltech There is a rich. History of scientific discoveries sounded surrounded by amazing scientists and all kinds of controlling noble prize winners. So how air can impact the fundamental scientists. Help us make. New Scientific discoveries is very exciting to me. launched a fulltime along with the Professor East on you also Caltech to help accelerate These discoveries on the other hand on the media side in the that's where Sh- The modern they palo computing started and Research has been possible. Thanks to the powerful. Gp US and the scale so they engineering expertise the hardware. The scale at the media helps me think about research problems. That wouldn't be possible. Otherwise how can we exploit all these capabilities to push a follower to invent new algorithms and to look at the impact at a variety of domains? You have a chance to explore the theoretical as well as the practical in a variety of different settings exactly and indeed To me the progress in air is happening so quickly so it's important to take it all the way right. Think about devil mental new algorithms as well as look at how it works at scale tactical applications and being able to do that in a relatively short time line is made possible thanks to this deal affiliation knowing your background on Ema. You're somebody who is often if I should say almost for the entirety of your time is a professor had a foot in the in the private sector as well when you were Assistant Professor at the University of California. Irvine you were a Microsoft a member of the Microsoft Research Team you also the principal scientists that Amazon web services previously as well and so it seems as though from the beginning of your time as a as a professor you thought about this synergy this symbiosis between university as well as a corporate setting. Is that right? Peter Acting You know that a lot of opportunities by trump's of collaboration between industry and the Cadena Microsoft Research had a richest real hosting kyle professors in all kinds of different areas of computer signs. And that's where I started working on temperatures Which ended up being my research. Focus for a number of years and how these new classes algorithms cats to all the whole range of unsupervised learning problems where label. Data's is not available so I call by putting people with different backgrounds and different skill. Sort scenario magic can happen very interesting. You began to allude to something that I know from our prior conversation. You refer to as the trinity and that is the three aspects that have come together. It's really enabled the deep learning revolution. There's a lot of focus on algorithms. But you from both your post really but especially for your posted invidia. You have an opportunity to think about how all these three come together it. Can you describe those and then give it a little a little bit of background each please? Yeah Yeah Peter. I think as you rightfully said There's a lot of focus on the algorithm so when it comes to thinking about artificial intelligence you know we are currently the deep learning revolution which means we are. Harnessing the power of deep neural networks But that to me. The only one passage the other two important facets are data compute infrastructure right because the algorithms have been around for a long time but more made this current evolution possible is the availability of large-scale benchmark. Data sets such as image that as well as the compute power from the GPO. I know we needed the scale. We needed the parallelism to be able to run these last que models. I'm process large amounts of data to train these models. I'm and that's why it's important to look at all these three pillars and ask holly further. Snow is them. How do we further look at Tom? Getting better quality data or detecting. What kind of data that? We should octane as realized how we make the hardware more efficient and more tuned to the applications. That makes sense. And I know that you've also put some thought into We're deep learning is best suited in where it is not an especially where it is not thinking about. Techniques can be used to To to facilitate the expansion of deep learning. Can you talk a bit about the process there? Yeah That progress people earning over. The last few years has been really exciting. It's been so fast you know. None of those in the field. Imagine we would Make such breakthrough in such a short amount of time But these have been primarily in the case where there's very large amounts of labor data available and we also have this Taylor available to train them and you know started with computer vision. How do they understand Images at scale and then speech recognition natural language processing and it happened in Hyper scale companies such as Google facebook and media where You know the the data on the scale wheel right and the question is Can we think about impact and so many other areas where this is not the case Be Minorities have very large amounts of data and Especially academic settings. There may not be always last scale computing possible. But if it's still possible to new kinds of air esearch to overcome these difficulties and that's where exciting that look. Mantha happening as we speak You know a lot of focuses now on how do the Do declining with the small amounts of data or can we actively learn and decide? What kind of data to collect can be semi supervised learning but if you know combined unlabeled later and Labor data can we do week supervision? Which means you may not have the complete label information but partial sit back and partial information to train the models and all. This is getting to the point of where you know. We are getting closer to watch him. In the way humans learn than ever before for instance in humans do a lot of unsupervised learning. We as infants You know Learn representations of the WHOA Even when we monotonous is right like the labels can come afterwards as we grow up so. This question is very deep in terms of Kenya. Nagel I'm supervised on supervised learning better. You know deep learning models and one of the latest techniques. Call Self Supervision where we are doing this iterative manner so meaning we train a model we try to go and label. New Data points said come back and do the same all over again. So that's the other aspect in which humans learn in an iterative fashion. Can we think of also algorithms that Have better correspondence to the way humans learn? I think those are all some exciting new areas That researchers thinking about you mentioned at the outset of your answer which is interesting. Which is the pace of the change and the pace of the change changes both thrilling as well as worrying for some in terms of our ability to control that. Change our ability to impact in defined things such that if in when Computers reach artificial general intelligence and approximation of our own. Maybe even beyond our our our ability to to think in process Will we still be masters of of that domain? And I wonder if you can take a moment and provide your own thoughts about that kind of optimism versus pessimism that different camps have of your overall development of artificial intelligence Yay. That's very good point. Peter You know a is in the news almost every day and most of the articles My you're overly optimistic or overly hyped up In the sense that Are assigning capabilities to the I. That's not currently possible case example. Our language models Over the previous years the language model scored really meaning. They're able to generate coherent paragraph right. But this doesn't mean that. They have an innate intelligence or an inmate character That's driving this generation on the other hand what's made this possible is the availability of large of Corpus of text You know primarily from dreaded where these models are trained and The availability again on SPA. Large-scale compute infrastructure are in fact the largest language model been trained by immediate. It's called Matron and that was trained on five hundred twelve. Gpa US so the Kale hadn't made it possible to now have coherent text generation but we are not still able to generate controllable text site and of course Carry on dialogues or having tillerson conversations in the natural way. That's too far off. But the way the these articles portray this is keeps an impression to the public that this is happening now and I think that's the one to play in a we and we are. Scientists have a responsibility to make sure that we give a balanced and honest view to the public and in the past. I've spoken on twitter and other media in terms of how it's important to you know. Why is this balanced will be accountable for the research? We do and presented in a balanced manner. Very interesting you know especially given what you've described and perhaps some of the hype that suggests realities arriving sooner than is possible as you look. Say three or five years out. What are some of the nearer term or medium term advances the UN -ticipant that? You're most excited about relative to artificial intelligence machine learning. I think indy. There's a lot of positive developments that are happening. I'm very excited about. They use of air in robotics and what I call a body intelligence but can we get the mind the body to get Because I'm until recent times the two areas of research have interacted much you know designing algorithms and mostly applying that in software on the other hand robotic fills relied on traditional control algorithms with no learning art. Right I and there are lots of interesting challenges to tackle for instance. We need to incorporate safety and stability. You know you feel have Drone THAT'S FLYING. It has to be stable. You know because we are learning in the loop we can't have it be crashing down. So it's important to make sure that the consideration so these robots operating in the wild in the physical world be taken into account even house we embed air algorithms them and as we do that style make these robots much more about two they can Be doing now multiple to the one For Instance Been A. We have a ten media research in Seattle robotics lab where There is a kitchen so matching the robots. That's able to do many tasks like cutting which tables you know picking up Different utensils and go through all the motions of cooking. It's a highly complex set of tasks and we are now getting to a point where we tend trae have algorithms such as metal reinforcement. Learning that can trainer will different kinds of tasks Different kinds of data sets and be able to put all that intelligence together. So that's why I'm very excited. Very interesting We mentioned earlier. Your multiple private sector affiliations from Microsoft to Amazon. Now nvidia as you've mentioned of course as well with each of those you've been exposed to companies and helped to lead companies in fact you are definitive leaders in the development of artificial intelligence machine learning and each has a blessing of a tremendous Skills in numbers of people who have a have deep perspectives deep research experience in the topics of AI machine learning and deep learning etc and This isn't the case for just anybody and I know that you know what's interesting about your perspective. Of course as you are on the one hand training some of the you know the future leaders as an academic you're also hiring hiring and grooming a teams as a leader in media and. I wonder if you could take those experiences for a moment in contemplate a company very different from the ones you've been affiliated with who had great difficulty in finding The people with the appropriate skill sets to develop a true Ai Team a deep learning team What sorts of recommendations would you have for that sort of an organization in order to ramp up sieve? Better compete in better take advantage of this revolution. That's happening absolutely I think that's a great point. you know to me. Democratization of air is very important. And that means across the world how we get more people into a I as Some more companies and sectors into harnessing the power of a I m seeing further exciting several of months. And you know personally I actually Come from family or a small skills. entrepreneurs who on a small scale company That's in manufacturing and Even though at that time there was no I But my parents were very interested in automation the moving from traditional missionary to computer numerically controlled machines you know. That was a big step for them. And at the same time the saw the benefits of efficiency and push their way and there were some of the first In the small town that I Was drawn up to have that kind of capability so growing up. I saw like First Time. How small-scale industries and ingenuity can come together to go to the cutting edge technology and leapfrog the developments. That are happening so I think across the world more than ever before. It's much easier for people to get into a a lot of source to available air is primarily driven to open source and at n media we Been containerizing an open source. Sourcing all the latest capabilities. So it's I'm there's lots of really good tutorials such as from past Odi I which is a nonprofit that is educating people across the world to learn about these algorithms And the corner bailable that they can go about decline their applications and I think with all this available It's possible for companies around the world To train their workforce in a targeted manner. You know anti they can focus on what's You know where to get started right. I think that's usually the barrier and it starts with digitization data can getting to the digital. How much that can be used for? I think starting small and starting ca with simple techniques not necessarily when decline in classical machine learning but getting started You know usually takes a lot of effort but I think it's worth it and I think I'm very confident but across the world will see a lot of exciting developments in local people solving local problems using AI. I know another topic that you're very passionate about is diversity. In Technology and the topics we've been talking about The Algorithms which were at the center of of artificial intelligence for example are particularly prone to unintended consequences where there's not a diversity of Perspectives taken into account when they are developed they're very famous examples of those unintended consequences that represent biases that people. Maybe don't even know that. They have as their programming computers to to fulfill one task or another But I wonder if you could take a moment and talk a bit about the if I the state of the Union if you will of women and minorities and artificial intelligence. I know that it's still a very small cadre. People you happen to represent both in this country anyway and But I wonder if you could talk a bit about Progress you see being made as well as progress progress yet to come. Yeah Yeah I think I know. We still have a long way to go in so far. Improving the numbers You know both of women and minorities in the field of air and more generally tap right And but I think diversity is important As you pointed out It'll be a building so many tool across a large number of domains which can have a huge human impact and being able to take into account. What other failure modes when sales? What are the backup you know. How do we ensure our shot of the cost of failure is not too high? I think those answers are address. Better renders diversity as an example in face recognition has been shown to be highly biased in many of the publicly available applications. So I know has from Amazon Web Services Microsoft and so on And the first researchers sue pointed out the shortcomings saw the blackie searchers. And indeed the. This is an issue that affects The African American community Especially in a big way When it's put in the hands of law enforcement and other agencies so we'll have may having these applications Make errors on the black population too much. Bigger extent is unfair and can lead to a lot of bad consequences so I think diversity is important to make sure we as a community back and re released applications to the real world in much more responsible manner and I think there'll be a lot of positive tableau of men so am out of grassroots efforts in our community To create a more healthy environment for everybody. And have it be welcoming to women and minorities Some of the examples? You know the women in machine learning has now grown to thousands of women and You know when I attended at Recently at the new conference There's just so much positivity and so much of bonding and so much sharing of knowledge And that house now you know dialer. She tried to use the word again into so many other affinity groups right the black and they are Latina in a is query any on disability male. I think people are really you know asking culturally Make an inclusive community and seen that happen on. The ground of these conferences to me is highly inspire We had the opening Talk be given by. Professor Kids was a professor at UC. Berkeley she talked about. How human beliefs are formed A really interesting scientific topic but in the end Which is quite unusual. What she did was to talk about the Metoo Movement. You know address it head on talk about what if they're all of men you know. Should they be concern? How can contribute in a positive way? I think This would have been unimaginable. Europe's even a couple of years ago last year. We pushed hard for the name. Change was called nips before and with this reference That You know was not seen as welcoming to women We pushed for that change and I think along with. It came a whole host of changes in terms of the code of conduct and much better from culture. Everybody came to corporate entities throwing parties. Or you know having events That had a more diverse group of researches participate and this year I think would sell us so talk getting a standing ovation and being able to address issues head on and create a better awareness in the community. That gives me a lot of will anemia Thank you so much for joining me today. On Tech Nation for sharing your perspectives from the diverse array of things that you do though that the university as well as at Invidia it's been great conversation out. It's real pleasure. Thanks for tuning in. Please join me next week when my guest will be Brian. Hoyt the chief information officer of unity technologies.

AI Invidia Amazon Caltech Professor professor Microsoft director NVIDIA Peter Peter You Nema Kamara Ford Peter Hi Caltech University Nima University of California Irvin US
Pablo Escobar's Hippos Overtaking Colombia, More Phytoplankton Is Good for the Planet, and Seeing Climate Change in Daily Weather

Curiosity Daily

12:41 min | 8 months ago

Pablo Escobar's Hippos Overtaking Colombia, More Phytoplankton Is Good for the Planet, and Seeing Climate Change in Daily Weather

"Hi you're about to get smarter in just a few minutes with curiosity. Daily from curiosity DOT COM. I'm Cody Gov and I'm actually Hamer today. We've got some good news and some bad news. When it comes to our planet I learn about why a predicted increase in phytoplankton is really good for our environment and then you learn about how researchers can now detect evidence of climate change from just one day of global weather conditions. We'll wrap up with the incredible story of how Pablo Escobar's hippos have become an invasive species in Colombia from good to better weird yes satisfy some curiosity. You probably don't spend much time thinking about fido plankton. But they're incredibly important to our planet. The microscopic single celled organisms form the base of almost every ocean food web. And get this. They produce about half of the oxygen in the atmosphere. Their survival is really important. So environmental scientists have been worried about how phytoplankton might be affected by climate change. Fortunately researchers at the University of California Irvine recently discovered that Fido plankton may actually thrive in warming waters you can think of Phytoplankton Nutrient recyclers and a lot of their recycling depends on the circulation of ocean water. Phytoplankton live in the upper layer of the ocean where they use sunlight to turn carbon dioxide into oxygen through photosynthesis they also consume nitrates phosphates and sulfur which typically make it to the upper layer when water circulates but when oceans heat up the warm upper layer and the cold lower layer. Don't mix as easily and for plankton. That means fewer nutrients or at least that's what scientists thought until now. Scientists generally measure plankton populations by the amount of chlorophyll in the water. That green pigment is necessary for photosynthesis so it seems safe to assume. Phytoplankton are filled with the stuff but it turns out that plankton living at warmer latitudes only maintain a small amount of chlorophyll. There's so much sunlight in these regions. That the plankton just need a few molecules of the green stuff to make photosynthesis happen with this in mind the UC Irvine team took a new plankton census. They found huge amounts of an even tinier creature called get this Pico Phytoplankton in Tropical Oceans. And when they created a new model that took these little guys into account. It predicted that there would be a ten to twenty percent increase in plankton biomass by the year. Twenty one hundred. This surprising increase shows. The plankton are able to adapt to less circulation in warmer oceans. One theories that dead plankton might stay at the top of the ocean for longer rather than sinking to the bottom. It's possible that living plankton or up cycling their dead friends for nutrients which is kinda sweet. When you think about it. Whatever the reason maybe. We're glad to hear that plankton won't completely die out. As the oceans warm the whole planet is going to need them now more than ever and now for B. Two ruined the fun as climate. Scientists are probably tired of explaining weather and climate are two different things right. We even did a whole segment on the difference between the two. On an episode of curiosity daily last February was almost exactly a year ago and whether in climates are different. We're not saying that's changed. But as the amount of carbon in the atmosphere continues to climb that distinction is becoming a little bit murky according to a recent study researchers can now detect evidence of climate change from just one day of global weather conditions. We usually talk about climate change in terms of the average global temperature. That basically comes down to all the energy we get from the Sun. In a year minus the energy the earth radiates back into space. Scientists analyzing annual changes have seen the average global temperature rise by about one point five degrees Fahrenheit since the industrial revolution. But they've been very careful to make the distinction between that long term trend and whatever. The weather was on any particular day. I mean like if there's a snowstorm in December that doesn't mean that the earth isn't getting warmer because it's cold on one day right but now for the first time. Researchers have detected the effect of climate change on daily weather. They can see evidence of climate change on the global weather pattern for any day since the spring of Twenty twelve. Here's how this works. Local weather conditions are affected by a ton of variables like atmospheric pressure cloud cover and high altitude wind patterns. Surprise Cold Fronts can cause local temperatures to plummet by thirty degrees since climate change is relatively subtle compared to such extreme variations in weather. It's very hard to see the effects of climate change in local weather data. But when you look at daily weather data for the entire planet local variations virtually disappear. What these researchers have done is compared to the expected natural variations of temperature and humidity across the world with what's actually observed and there's a big difference and they found that it's explained by the effects of climate change. But like I said before. That still doesn't mean that a Cold Day in. Chicago in December means that global warming isn't a thing again. This is daily weather on a global scale as one of the co-authors told The Washington Post quote weather is climate change. If you look over the whole globe end quote and what's behind the change will for one. Scientists are getting better at measuring and analyzing weather and climate data. The researchers here used cutting edge machine learning techniques to study huge complicated data sets but another thing that happened is stronger. Signals in the data climate change becomes easier to spot as it becomes more extreme. Here's hoping we can reverse that trend Ashley. You owe me for doing the bad news. People aren't going to like me now. Well thank you for falling on that sword. Today's episode is sponsored by clear. I'm generally a pretty punctual person. But for some reason I M V worst at getting to the airport on time and that's why I'm excited about our newest sponsor clear clear helps you get through security with the top of a finger so you can get to your gate faster. Where Ashley is probably waiting for Cody to get there all sweaty and never happened. I know what you're talking about. So clear replaces the need for physical. Id Cards using your eyes and fingertips to get you through security. It works great with pre check to signing up as easy. Just create your account online before going to the airport and then once you get there a clear ambassador helps you finish the process. Clear helps you get through security faster in over sixty five airports and stadiums across the country with more being added every day up to three family members could be edited a discounted rate and kids under eighteen or free when traveling with a clear member right now curiosity. Daily listeners can get their first two months of clear for free. Go to clear me dot com slash curiosity and use code curiosity that C. l. e. a. r. m. e. dot com slash curiosity code curiosity for your free two months of clear. Okay this next sentence might break your brain Pablo Escobar's hippos are pooping too much. Okay Okay I'll explain. In the nineteen eighties the drug kingpin. Pablo Escobar became South America's most notorious zookeeper when he brought rhinos giraffes zebras and hippos to his family's ranch in Columbia when his empire collapsed in the ninety S. Most of the animals were sent to zoos across the region except for the four resident hippos. Those hippos made more hippos and now there are eighty of them. New Research says they're having a big impact on the environment and it stinks. The researchers spent two years comparing water. Quality in lakes with hippos and lakes were hippos. Haven't moved in at least not yet. They looked at water chemistry and took surveys of bacteria insects and crustaceans. It turns out that hippos introduce a lot of nutrients into their new environments nutrients poop like I said there is so much poop all right. See Hippos spend their nights on land roaming around and eating they spend their days cooling off in lakes where they relieve themselves constantly basically they collect nutrients and energy from the land. Break it down and deposit it into the lake. All that poop changes the water. Chemistry can have a huge effect on everything else that lives in the water. It can alter the kinds of algae and bacteria that thrive there and may even lead to algae blooms which can smother the water surface and use up all the oxygen like. I mentioned the hippo population. There has grown from four to eighty in just two decades. The researchers think that two decades from now their numbers could climb into the thousands. These hippos are technically invasive species the largest invasive species in the world in fact it remains to be seen how these lumbering interlopers affect their native. Neighbors like manatees. Caymans and giant river turtles. This is the first study on. What the hippos are doing to their environment. So there's still a lot we don't know but it's probably safe to say that they aren't good news for local ecosystems and it's best. We tackle this problem earlier than later after all those hippos are just. GonNa make more hippos. Let's recap what we learned. Today well turns out phytoplankton. Pretty important is in it. Produces about half of the atmosphere's oxygen which is as much as all land plants combined. Yeah just because they're small doesn't mean they're not important. Yeah and one silver lining of global warming for longtime. We thought that climate change is going to make tropical oceans inhospitable to phytoplankton. New evidence suggests that the phytoplankton will actually increase in population in those areas so one little piece of silver lining. Yeah but not silver lining what? What's the opposite? Silver Grey Like the worst rock the worst mineral. Yeah I I guess okay I just Google. The worst rock in the top result is one creed. Lining is that we can now detect the effects of climate change in daily weather patterns if we look at all of the weather around the globe as a whole daily global weather patterns yes daily global weather patterns very important distinction because climate and weather are still different things but climate and global weather are more linked than you think and speaking of things that aren't super great for our planet but also really bizarre and worth noting is that infamous drug kingpin. Pablo Escobar treated a family. Zou in Columbia and now. It's hippos are running rampant messing with the chemical balance of lakes. Yeah and I mean like I feel like the first the first instinct for many people who'd be like whole those hippos. I WANNA go see all those hippos you don't want to see the hippos hippos are mean and heard they're very yeah yeah you. WanNa stay away from those hippos also you might wanna Google Hippos pooping. Because it's awful highly notable. We made it through an entire episode talking about Hippeau several times and neither of us have said the word hungry. You know. That's true and we're both children in the eighties. We've both played our share of hungry hungry hippos and we did it. We made it through until this moment. Yeah that's what I'm here for. Cody the ruin her for the next three days only allowed to do stories about like how everything is better than ever and we just found a cure for diseases and other good feel good. Nice things to be fair. That's usually what our show is about this for the climate and weather story definitely warranted follow up because longtime listeners learned a year ago one thing and we've got an update on the well. It's still true. Climate and weather. It's still different things. Yeah well we got an update on the nuance sure all about nuance yeah. I'm hungry for dessert. You're hungry hungry. For Nuance to these stories were written by Andrea. Michelson grants current and edited by Ashley Hamer. Who's the managing editor for curiosity daily? Today's episode was produced and edited by cody. Gov Join US again tomorrow to learn something new in just a few minutes and until then stay curious.

Pablo Escobar Cody Gov Ashley Hamer University of California Irvin Colombia Fido managing editor Google South America WanNa Andrea The Washington Post Michelson Chicago C. l. Columbia Hippeau
1153: 3 Ways I Use Technology to Find Happiness by Brendan Kane on Being Happy

Optimal Living Daily

07:40 min | 1 year ago

1153: 3 Ways I Use Technology to Find Happiness by Brendan Kane on Being Happy

"This is optimal. Living daily episode. Eleven fifty three three ways I use technology to find happiness by Brandon Kane with near and far dot com. And I'm just a your personal narrator, reading blogs to you mostly. But sometimes books anything that I think will help you optimize your life taste post being from guest author or near AOL's website near and far dot com. Nearest belt, and I are before we get to it. Thank you to UCI's continuing education programs. They have a wide range of programs from business to IT finance health care law and more and over sixty convenience or tickets and specialized studies programs on campus and online for the working professional looking for career, advancement and personal enrichment checkout UCI's continuing education program. Spring quarter is coming up and registration is open. Visit C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast. To learn more that C E dot UCI dot EDU slash. Podcast to learn more frogs get right to it. As we optimized your life. Three ways I use technology to find happiness by Brendan Cain with near and far dot com. We all have the power to change our lives and find happiness, I know this because I found ways to reprogram my inner circuitry, and she's my perspective of the world to ultimately, find happiness. A few simple steps inserted into my daily routine dramatically improved my life, and how me feel more happy joy and fulfillment. Supposingly many of my new rituals were made possible using the technology. I carry with me every day think big quote because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world or the ones that do Steve Jobs. I was trained to think small and seek comfort rather than risk from an early age. Many of us are told to think realistically, and to leave the big audicious ideas to people with more experience and resources, but the truth is the job said, quote, everything around you that you call life was made up by people that were no smarter than you. And quote, we are all born with the. Same basic, brain hardware, and though there are very Asians in intelligence between people the differences are relatively minor and show little correlation with life outcomes. However, what does make a difference is how much we believe in ourselves, and our capabilities a much greater determinants of where we will end up in life is whether we have what Stanford researcher. Carol duet calls a fixed, or growth mindset, I set out to remove the fixed mindset, I'd cultivated over the years. I did this through a daily practice of using my iphone note's tool to brainstorm, the biggest and craziest ideas, I could think up. These ideas could be anything from starting a billion dollar business to designing away to live on the moon, the practice of thinking big on a daily basis flex my mind's capacity to move past limitation, and how me become a more creative. Thinker us gratitude to change your attitude, quote, gratitude is a single most important ingredient to living a successful and fulfilled life. Chuck canfield one of the most impactful steps and reprogramming my brain to find happiness was to take a daily inventory of everything. I was grateful for before I go to sleep each night. I make a list of the positive things that came into my life that day, for example. I might jot down a few words to remember a particularly beautiful sunset a compliment I received or even a meeting that went well, I use a graduate. Apple my to record these moments. Does routine sounds trivial? But I found something strange happens when I started the practice after about thirty days. My perception of the world began to change a became happier. Because I found myself more aware of the amazing things I had in my life. I was stopped several times a day to smile and recognition and appreciation of the small things in life. The change also impacted my professional life. I started to attract more fulfilling business opportunities and more positive people to the projects I was working on carrier dreams with you quote, throw your dreams into. As like a kite. And you do not know what it will bring back. My new life a new friend a new love a new country on a east Nin. What would you do tomorrow? If you won the lottery, what are ten things that you would want to accomplish with the rest of your life. Most people can only list things that they would do. And some people can't list any my asked myself with the point was of running so hard toward financial independence. When I really had no idea what I was going to do once. I got there. If I didn't know what I wanted. How can I achieve it? I discovered that one of the best ways to determine what I wanted was a creed dream book of images on my ipad that I can look at every morning and evening. I gathered a list of images that represented the things I wanted most in life, and I put images representing them on my ipad and iphone. I often listen to my favorite music while I play a slide show of the pictures. I used remind me of the things I want to achieve places. I wanna go people. I wanna meet my imagine what it would feel like if I had each of those. As in my life. This exercise created a thought sequence to help me set new goals in life, and provided a deliberate destination that I could envision working in striving for each day. Perception is reality. Einstein said, quote reality miss merely an illusion albeit Ma very persistent one, and quote, indeed, we are highly influenced by the way, we see things changing the direction of our lives seems difficult because many of us have been conditioned to believe it is not possible. But the truth is changing our lives and finding happiness is as easy as changing the way, we think changing my own life was a slow process, but I began to feel more happiness joy and fulfillment by regularly, incorporating these simple technology facilitated habits. Utilise into the post titled three ways, I use technology to find happiness by Brendan Cain with near and far dot com. Again, that's a guest post on your site. Brennan has built technology for MTV paramount Taylor swift, the NHL and more. He knows what he's talking about a big. Thank you to UCI for sponsoring this episode, specifically, the university of California Irvine's continuing education programs were all about learning here. This is perfect because I attended UCI along with my sister and brother who both graduated from there and are continuing education programs are impressive. You can advance your career in as little as six months Todd by expert instructors with industry experience. They have over sixty convenience or tickets and specialized studies programs on campus and online designed for the working professional who seeks career advancement and personal enrichment programs cover a wide range of areas like business to IT health care law, finance and more and online courses offer flexibility. But you also get to collaborate with your peers, it's a real immersive online classroom experience, which I. Ink is super important. So check out UCI's continuing education programs. Spring quarter is coming up and registration is open. Visit C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast. To learn more that C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast to learn more elite. Therefore today have a great rest of your day. And I'll be back tomorrow where your optimal life awaits.

UCI Brendan Cain Brandon Kane AOL Chuck canfield Steve Jobs Stanford Carol researcher Todd I. Ink Apple university of California Irvin Taylor swift Einstein NHL Brennan Ma
Fat Phobia and Its Racist Past and Present

Short Wave

12:38 min | 3 months ago

Fat Phobia and Its Racist Past and Present

"You're listening to shortwave. From NPR. As a teen Sabrina strings loved getting to hang out with her grandma even when her grandma was obsessing over one of her soap operas I remember one time. She called me into the living room and she's like Sabrina look at Victoria. McCoy's kept on young and the restless. Victoria is killing herself to him. Why are white women dying to be thin? Fast forward to one three adult Sabrina was working at an HIV medication adherence clinic in San, Francisco, where she witnessed real life, examples of women sacrificing their health to be thin nights, spoken to a couple of women both HIV positive who refused to take their HIV medications for fear of gaining weight, and that blew my mind, and immediately took me back to conversations I've been having with my grandma like gosh onto something so important you know when she was talking about it, she saw it as largely a white phenomenon, but the women I interviewed that day. We're both color. Why were these women dying to be thin and did race have anything to do with? Him. Sabrina went on to become a sociologist at the University of California Irvine and wrote a whole book investigating these questions. If you're like me, you might have assumed that. There was some moment in between Marilyn Monroe. TWIGGY EH in which. Suddenly we'll. We suddenly became fat-phobic in those three years, but Sabrina started digging looking at nineteenth century magazines like Harper's bazaar in what she found was troubling articles warning American women well middle class and upper class white women. They needed to watch what they eat, and they were unapologetic, and stating that this was the proper form for. Jackson Protestant women, and so it was important that women eight as little as necessary in order to show their Christian nature and also their racial superiority. Today on the show we go all the way back to the transatlantic slave trade to understand the racial origins of fat phobia, and how black people are still dealing with the consequences today? I mattie Safai and this is shortwave the daily science podcast from NPR. So Sabrina. Let's let's get into what you discovered about the history of fat phobia a little bit you. You did a ton of research and you started the story several centuries back in Europe definitely in the ethos that like Renaissance Women. you know we're full figured. And that was absolutely a thing that was valued, and then there was a big shift explain what was going on back then so it turns out that the growth of the slave trade, especially by the eighteenth century led to new articulations of what types of appearance we could expect of people by different races, and also what types of behaviors. Such that by the middle of Eighteenth Century, a lot of French philosophers in particular were arguing that you know what when we're in the colonies, we're noticing that Africans are sensuous. They love sex and they love food, and for this reason they tend to be too fat. Europeans have rational self control. This is what makes us the premier race of the world, so in terms of body. Body size, we should be slender, and we should watch what we eat so okay Sabrina. Are you telling me that? When the slave trade started and European saw that African women were essentially curvy much like European women at the time at that point, they decided that being fat being thicker wasn't ideal anymore, and they built a system of oppression around this idea of needing to be. Thinned to prove racial superiority is at eight am I close. It's not quite as intentional as that. Effectively what they determined was that. You know we want it to be able to have a mechanism for ensuring that we could recognize who was slave, and it was free right, and it was easy in the beginning of the was simply skin color. What did you might imagine? After two hundred years of living in close proximity skin color really no longer works has a mechanism right, because now we have all of these people who are We would consider them today to be by racial, and so what they did was they decided to articulate new aspects of racial identity and so eating and body size became of the characteristics that were being used to suggest that these are people who do not deserve freedom. The trans, Atlantic slave trade eventually ended, but argues that we are still absolutely living with these racist attitudes about body size today. And in her book, she also traces how these anti-fat attitudes worked their way into modern medicine for somewhat arbitrarily, reasons for example take BMI or body mass index. That equation actually wasn't intended to be used to measure individual fatness. Though of course doctors did and still do today, can you? Can you explain the problem with using am I as a measure for obesity especially when it comes to black women, who I know have been told that they have the highest rates of obesity according to that measurement to be am I. Yes, so am. I is a measure of the ratio of a person's weight to their height. And what this does not account for is bone density. Muscular already any other type of genetic influences in your way or cultural environmental influences in your weight, and so, what ended up happening? As many people pointed out is that you might have to people with the same BMI, but vastly different life experiences embody compositions outside of the simple reality of their weight to height ratio, right, and the problem of applying this to them in particular, is that African American populations as studies have shown for literal decades since at least the eighties tends to be healthier at heavier weights than white populations. And so that already is an indication that cross racially. This is not a very useful tool, not to mention the fact that even within race there are going to be vastly different experiences, of an individual body between like their weight and their health profile so surreal this message from the medical establishment that excess weight is the biggest you know reason for black women's health problems or a very central of it. Why do you see it as so damaging? For Black Women, ultimately, the main advice that people are given when they so called obese is to lose weight, and there are so many problems with this. We have been telling people to lose weight for decades. What ends up happening is that they either don't lose the weight or they sometimes do lose the weight, and then frequently gain it back so first off. It could be more harmful to tell people to lose weight in the long run, and then in addition to that there are the psychological effects of telling people that their bodies are wrong. Right at their bodies are inherently unhealthy This type of fat stigma also leads to health outcomes right right right, so let's talk about this. In the context of covid nineteen I'm thinking about the recent New York Times op Ed you wrote about how cove nineteen is disproportionately impacting. Impacting people of Color specifically black people, and how you took issue with obesity, gaining traction as a leading explanation for that disparity, so talked me a little bit about that. This piece was actually motivated by something that I felt was very troubling, which was I had been seeing so many report, suggesting that the disparities in Colbert outcomes between white populations and black populations. They would say things like well. You know there's already the pre existing factor of obesity, and somehow that was one of the first things that come up and I thought there is very little evidence that disparities in quote unquote obesity are what's contributing to these negative outcomes, but there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Kobe. Fatalities or maybe even serious complications with Kobe nineteen are being influenced by people's environments. Are they essential workers? Do they have access to enough soap and water hand sanitizer, and so of course might imagine that the ability to socially distance to shelter in place to have access to healthy foods under Corinthian, all of this is very much being structured by a person's social location and black people tend to live in communities without access. Access to a lot of different healthy and life giving resources. Yeah, in in Sabrina, I'll tell you that as a person that reads a lot of the literature on Kovin prisoner biologists I am seeing a lot of papers coming out that are associating with the obesity without with health outcomes of COVID, but those links tend to be correlated right, but even if we were to find out that there's absolutely a causal link. Link between covert and obesity which I think you're arguing. There isn't one especially right now. At least the rates of obesity and white and black populations aren't actually that different right like it wouldn't necessarily be the thing that made it. So can you tell me a little bit about those rates versus the actual percentage of disparities? We're seeing so according to the CDC, the Obesity Twain. African, American and white populations are. Are Forty two point, two percent for white populations and forty nine point, seven percents for black populations are about that and so we're looking at effectively a seven percentage point disparity between white and black populations in terms of rates of obesity, however, when we're looking at serious complications with covert nineteen. What we're seeing is that black people are dying at rates of two point four to seven times that of white populations. How that's seven percentage point differential is leading to two point four to seven times the disparity in serious complications. Death. No one's really being able to explain that. This is the problem with the kind of cords of studies, which is that they lead people to believe that somehow. Is One of the drivers when in fact it could simply be a confounding in these studies, but we're so used to studying obesity and treating these correlations as if they are evidence of causal link that people are frequently not being very critical when they're seeing studies that show these relationships. Sabrina, you've obviously spent years by now working to understand this issue and to educate folks about it I'm wondering you know like why why this. Why have you specifically taken this on one of the reasons? Why continue to do it? Is I've seen what a difference? It's made to people's lives. I mean I've had so many people reach out and tell me that they felt for the longest time like something was wrong, but no one was talking about it or that I have spoken to their personal experience. I couldn't have imagined when I started doing this work. That could have possibly had the impact that it's had you know I'm standing on the shoulders of giants people who have been feminist scholars medical scholars journalists who've been doing this work at least since the nineteen seventies, but we're at a moment right now where there's a critical mass of people who are aware that the discourse surrounding fatness that we've long accepted really is baseless, and we think about a new way of allowing people to have a positive relationship to their bodies, and to cultivate health within themselves and their communities that does not rely on that stigma. Okay Sabrina I appreciate you. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your life and your work with us. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Sabrina strings. Her book is called fearing the black body the racial origins of fat phobia. This episode was produced by Joey. Shah and edited by Deborah George Rebecca Ramirez checked the facts. I'm Madison and you've been listening to shortwave from NPR.

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047 - Diaspora and Jinns

#GoodMuslimBadMuslim

39:28 min | 2 years ago

047 - Diaspora and Jinns

"Welcome to the good Muslim, bad Muslim podcast. Hey, everybody. Hope you enjoyed our last episode, and we have something special for you. After after we did all that fun stuff at diong. Yeah. What we have going on test. We have special show for people to. Let's just jump right into it. So I think we're frisk gonna start with Dr story. Okay. My friend Hooda, and I go way back, and when we decided that we were gonna talk about thanksgiving. I knew this was the episode to interview her hey longtime to see how long has it been since received other? I don't remember your bathing LA's like a year talking still really it's been a long. Yeah. Well, definitely before February. Because are just so far it doesn't it's not actually that far used to live in the bay area. And I feel like I saw you more often when you lived in Berkeley, she's onto my closest friends, but I only see her on thanksgiving. It's thanksgiving. I wanted to do a piece that's about family. But there's also this connection for me between the spiritual realm and the family room, and you and I had this in common this outlook on spirituality that I feel like it's not paranormal if just normal definitely it's just human experience and human perception and human relationship. Yeah. Definitely physi-. You say definitely I feel like other people will be like. What are you talking about this thing when you're like interviewing one of your closest friends who you're like telepathic with and you get to these moments where you just both agree. But you know, that no one else knows what you're talking. I have no idea. What's going on here? One of the reasons why I really wanted to do this piece, and it felt like such a perfect exposition with your story about Jin's is because there's this way put it put the so well at one point diaster these being part of a diaster a group of people who are dispersed just a totally decentralized as a result of external forces, you feel like go sometimes. Yeah, you're definitely disconnected from a sense of place. But I don't know when I I'm also sport my family's from Bangladesh. And I think that for me, my feeling is less ghost in more being able to create my own culture. That's taking pieces of both sides. Hold on. I have these ridiculous number of intersections in common. One of them is this this experience of diaster specifically ghosts like where you don't really feel. At home and anyone place and the only place where we both actually experienced a kind of home was literally the one holiday thanksgiving. That's the only time where we both were like, wow. That's the only time that I felt like I was on solid ground. And so I always have this like really difficult time. Explaining my relationship of her to people like if you ask me at a dinner party say she's my cousin, even though we have no blood relation other than being Iranian Americans or just to get across how close we are in our family is I might say, well, her mom, and my mom are best friends, and we're best friends and are our best friends and our sisters, our best friends, and we hope our grandkids will be best friends, which just kind of makes us them like a cult. Both these distillation 's of our relationship. Cousin best friend are actually physically painful to me. My relationship to her and their family is so rare in my world that it it triggers the sense of scarcity and like preciousness, I feel so protective of just the label of her in my life. Okay. So our origin story. Feels like there are these other forces that brought us together we met in this violent anti Iranian time, the nineteen eighties. When she and I were both little kids. I was five. She was one still in diapers. When my mom spotted her mom at UCI university of California Irvine there were no other woman wearing job that. I remember seeing I said mom, they look like us are moms meet, and I just remember them laughing and Iranian hospitality is competitive. Her mom wins. They invite us over for tea. Okay. And get this. This is all relevant. I promise they're drinking tea, and my mom spots a photo on the wall that has a picture of. Of my mom's best friend from Iran in Hortas. Mom's family photo. It's hortas. Father's sister. After it's also what does mom's best friend. That's wild the same best friend. But how do they not know each other? Then. So here's what Hillary is my mom goes, that's my friend. And what does mom goes? That's my sister in law, and my best friend and are talking about how much they both love her, and they start making jokes, and they're laughing, and my mom goes, it's so funny Asser told me to look for this other woman wearing hejab all on her lonesome at UCI campus, whose husband is an architect. Like, yeah. Sure. All just find this random lady, this poor woman is just walking around here. Maybe looking for me. I don't know and my mom's laughing, and then what does mom goes. That's me. That's a funny our dads meet that night, and they become best friends, and we have this best fr-. Family. And we live there for like another year. And then my daddy. It's his first job in Silicon Valley and life without them is really hard yet. I thanks giving. We were all dreading. It me my sisters, and my mom just like Danus, but we had fun. We came to your house. I think my dad was happiest with your family. When other things that I love about our podcast has is that because we're in the similar category of like modern Muslim women. Everyone expects that we're going to be the same is not true at all. Yeah. And so then there's this other way that like people I think sometimes take for greater that just because you say the word immigrant or you say the word diaspora that means that you have the same experience. There's always like all these stories about like your experience of leaving home when you left for college where you like have free. I'm free. Oh, yeah. I definite- when I left college. I didn't get to go that far because we didn't have that much money to send me out of state, but I went to USC, and I was very insistent that I stay in the dorm on campus, and I really didn't try to come home on weekends. But then I like had to come home on weekends because I didn't have money. And so like when I would go home that I would get a trunk full of groceries sent with me when I came back. So that was that was another thing that kept in mind. Like, if I go home, I get groceries. What am I had this thing in common that actually I didn't even realize this also in common until I did this interview with her? Oh, yeah. I had severe depression. As a teenager. I had a calendar where I would Mark the days, I didn't cry. I was lucky if there was one we thought our depression with cease once we left the house, but it just got worse. The only thing that made it much better was when I moved out for college. I remember my mom job me off. And I told her don't call me for the first month because someone some idiot told me like within the first month, you were going to be sobbing and crying to come home. And I was like, no, I'm not. And so I told my mom don't call me within the first month, and it made her cry of parentless. She's like, I cried the hallway home, it broke, my heart that you said that you were you were just leaving us as their first time with a kid leaving us for college. And you just said that and I was so sure so unhappy at home, I was like, I know I'm going to go to college and move out and be free. And we'll be happy Viki to the month. I don't my mom, and I sat outside the door. And I call her second. I heard her voice I saw being and I'm like, oh, can I? And so then like, I got home, and I was home for three days, and then I felt so much better. And I got like I was like, oh, it's fine. Like, nothing has changed. Like, I don't know. I still have a home to come home to also my parents are driving me crazy. I'm in three days. But it didn't get better when we got home. It got better in a different way. Like we. And we never she. And I never talk about this stuff. Because the only time we ever see each other is thanksgiving. And that's when we're happy, and there is so much laughter in the house because our mums had the same sense of humor. Which is jokes. On par with thirteen year old boy for jokes burp jokes jokes, many sexual sexual innuendoes. Yup. Yup. Yup. That's their favorite you. Right. You know? What's funny, though, is I try to do that with my mom. She gets very uncomfortable and tries subject. I don't make a funny joke about a sexual innuendo, and it doesn't work with me. But if your mom does it my mom's all over it. This is another thing that we have in common is from our moms to is like when stuff is really bad. We laugh here like oh shit at so bad like you, and I are already. What's wrong with? We totally from our. Oh, no when Cavanaugh one. Oh, yeah. I know why even funny all you can do is laugh at the ridiculousness that we've regressed to. And so bad. Yeah. Do you notice that about me test that I laugh when things are really bad? Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. I feel like it gets me in trouble. Sometimes there is this way that like laughter important to both of our families Meinen hoodies. And it's such a part of our resilience. Also, never have to explain it around her, and it was fun interviewing her because then there were all these things that we normally like we never talk about because we just kinda take for granted because they just are. And we just want to give to the part where we eat Turkey, and we play board games. Yeah. And the one thing that I never thought about because we only saw each other at thanksgiving where we're happy. Both of us also thought that the other family had the less dysfunctional family. It's funny. How everyone's perception is so so skewed always was yellow each other all the time when I became older. And I realized this connection I was like Ono. I don't wanna go home because I don't want them to be mad again. I don't want them. To be sad again. So hold on. I always got that. When we saw each other. We didn't have to coats, which we're both running Americans immigrant parents model minority pressure respectability politics, older sisters, dealing with depression, getting out of it, husbands who aren't Iran in pragmatic. Smart tall bettas women a lot of things in common. She and I, but we never thought about how much our parents actually work coats, which ING for us until we looked back on thanksgiving. Our parents when they would get together. I realized that they were coaching for us all shit. Yeah. With like new talk to each other in like everything change their whole demeanor, which slang would change. Yeah. They they start translating. I didn't even realize they've been translating for me, and they talk so fast. The flipper you saying, yeah. Yeah. Really weird. And they do these jokes at like rapid pace, and my tender just crying like laughing so hard that he was pregnant. I was like what is he saying? And you're dead like trying to translate never funny. What's your favorite? Translation. Oh, no, they attempted. I can't remember. I don't even remember it was always choppy. And it would laugh always in the middle of the translation that about seventy percent through. They'd be like, I can't. All right. It'd be like the guy with the Brett. It's funny. Trust me. And then or they'll give up right in the beginning. It has cultural reference you're not gonna get it would be laughing at us. Not getting getting all be like crappy. And then made me not want to give them the satisfaction of what? No, tell me I'm gonna start asking exactly nobody can make God laugh. Could how's he dealing with that? I don't know your parents on talk about it. Now, it just gets, you know. Bad. Your moore's. It's hard to talk about is so hard because even when he talked about it. It's so painful, even if it's happy memory, it's. It's. He left like before he could experience the good parts. He had all the bad parts. Once he got diagnosed, and he was getting chemo, even though he's getting chemo, and he was alone in the hospital room because we're all at work in school. He like when we would visit it was quality conversation every time it was like openness, and he was never grumpy never in a bad mood. So like he was changing for the better as far as relating to us and connecting to us. And this is sucks is so unfair. We lost his debt to terminal illness a few years ago in may sound disrespectful for me to forget exactly what year, but honestly time just stopped for me. No one in the world could make my dad laugh like Hussein. Heard. I'm a comedian. I listen to these things and laughter is such a part of our family and. When we were recording this segment right now in this moment, I could get through. I think the most I've cried all year. I don't like to cry. I that's why laugh all the time. I don't wanna cry. And like I remember when I was interviewing her for this piece. We started talking about the loss of her dad, and she was saying we were talking about ghosts. And we believe in ghosts. And what does it mean for her? Having lost a parent, you know, this idea of ghosts. And she was saying it's one of the things that helps her get through. The grief is thinking about her debts seeing her sobbing and being like a come on, man. I don't wanna look at that. I lost an uncle, and I hate that. There's no word for what he was to me. He was more than a pra uncle of family friend to me. He was my dad's brother, but I don't feel like I can even say that. Because my dad had a brother, and he lost his brother, and that also had a profound impact on him profound. But it was different. When you hear your parents, like I don't know if you've ever had that experience of doing a double take hearing, your parents talked to somebody in a way that makes them a person you've never seen or met. You know what I'm talking about? And to know that that person who brought out that much joy in my father is also gone. You know, let alone let alone. What like thanksgiving was with Jose Noga? He built these massive woodfires like he was so daring, and because he was an architect on a contractor like physics person. Like, he was he was fearless. He was fearless. And he made us. Fearless. He told stories that my dad laugh till he literally peed his pants. And you know, we would argue about whether or not my dad did his pants. He was an architect and artist he was an avid knitter. He notice all scarves when it was cold. Like literally around the fire. He would just knit scarves them and give them to us. Our house came to life when he was around in my dad's stop being a walking ghosts labor of Silicon Valley. He was whole and I really miss him. Yeah. And I wanted to tell the story because nobody understands what I mean when I say, I can't wait for thanksgiving in what it means to me. I call hood on my best friend those really not accurate. She so much more than that. She's my cousin. We have these intersections that are so specific us in as I'm explaining this to her and why I'm doing this interview with her I barely need to explain it. She totally gets it. And so for everybody listening out there these holidays the holidays, there's so many mixed feelings when it comes to like family the experience of family. I hope your holidays are filled with love laughter joy, and maybe a little room for grief. We're going to get quick break. But when we come back, I'll be sharing my story about a little ghost adventure that we had. Did you know there was a luxury tax on tampons because it's a luxury item damn the patriarchy? Yeah. What's Luxuria about periods? I gotta say the tampons I've been using lately are pretty luxurious the are Lola's. I got my first box of Lola tampons when I went to the call your girlfriend live podcast recording. Because they were hinting them out to the audience, and I was hooked and for past few years. I've been getting these monthly boxes to my house. That's amazing. What do you love about them? I love that can customize my box you can order either eighteen tampons or twelve pads, and he can rearrange the absorbency. And you can also skip months. For instance, when you end up buying a bunch of tampons at Costco and have too many. I love that there are Ganic tuck city, and my vagina willow products are one hundred percent organic cotton with no added chemicals fragrances and thanks for dis. Major brands use a mix of synthetic ingredients in their products, including rayon and polyester who needs that. And the best part of all for every purchase. They donate feminine care products. Homeless shelters press, the US of never felt so good about bleeding my periods for forty percent off all subscriptions. Visit my Lola dot com and enter the code word good. When you subscribe, that's g o d. And we're back in for my story. We're going to jump right into it. So I'm excited to hear what you have to say are after the stories then. All right. I'm excited to hear it. When you think of contemporary Jains, he probably think at the midriff blonde from I dream of Jeannie, or you think of this. Can't y'all. Although John down. Blue could Gary comical genie. That sounds like Robin Williams or maybe think of this. Teens are after all the westernized version of Jin a mythical being that lives in a magic lamp well grant three wishes three -ality, though is much more mystical. I'm a believer in Jin's, but TASR made it sound like Jin's go start different. So now, I'm confused. Oh, ooh. I didn't think about that. Oh, yeah. They are actually. Being it. So I don't know if I believe in ghost. But I do believe in chip. That was the voice of our Bill. So we're about to start a ghost tour or as my co host. Our nor bash has been calling it a gin tour. We're form some women who just happened to be in New Orleans together this summer for weekend. We all wanted to things been yeas and to take a walking tour through the French quarter. I asked the fourth member of our coup to be bus ri- what she believes to be. Do you believe in goes? I do believe in ghosts. You believe in Jin's. Of course, it's part of our mythology. My my understanding of the kind of folly of people passing away their spirits and places that they happen. It might brations. Yeah. I feel strongly about spirits leaving by break. And that's very, but like people feel like, you know, after my mom died the sofa that she always sat on I felt like her energy was there, even after she was long gone. And I think that we as humans have energy, we've hind energy. That's my one. My favorite traditions from how I grew up with my religion. And my experience of his mom people who I love who. I lost a visit their graves, and I would pray at their grave sites. I'm put flower pedals on the grave, and then I would take the flower petals with me, and so it was like there was this piece of their energy that I keep close to or when I was easy where my grandmother's earings or something like that. There was this comforting feeling that was part of that. So it wasn't a scary experience to think about something of of dead loved ones being still present on this earth. With for me comfort me too. Okay. Is it? Jeber is is a gin angel angel angel of light in angels are not Jin's. No, no, no angels are made of light people are made of dust. Jin's are made a fire wanna be made a fire. I'll tell you. I'm like seeing tomato. Fires made a fire. I made a fire. But all of the all of the prayers and incantations that were told to me to make me feel comforted. When I was scared where about keeping good angels by my side. It was this feeling that. Okay. No matter what life brings I have this. This group of angels. That has my back that's going to help me get through it. And so if there's. Shins and trickster spirits are bad energy or just evil people trying to harm me. I have these. I have this court system through my was the way that it was time to. Well, here's why I asked Sarah Balu, take spend on her definition, go singe ins and goblins and ghouls like, what's what is all of that? Because in a slum Jin's are an actual type of being created by fire. There's of course, Satan, which people know people say in the big bad guy. But we also believe that Jin's are beings with free will. So they're not all Satan, some are bad some are good. And they're they're like people in that way. But we don't go SF in because ghosts are the spirits of dead people. And then what are ghouls goblins when people will get dressed up for Halloween. What are they dressing up as and to what I haven't figured out is where to go STS fit in in the context of Islam, and it's a little bit like need to know. I'm sure there is some scholarly person. I could ask. But do I really wanna give myself more material for like nightmares or reasons for my shoulder? It's bad enough that I'm worried about white supremacists. Who I can see. And then if I were. Worried about ghosts and goblins and all of those things I don't even know clearly are all really undefined pages when it comes to go s- engines, I believe in everything as the Scipio czar a beluga believes in Jin's, but was unsure about ghosts are newer brush didn't believe in anything that is until Sabih brought up valid point. I think we could explain everything with the active gyms. What do you mean wells are just left her credit card at the restaurant? But I think maybe a gin took it out of her purse and hit it somewhere. It's not that. She just forgetful. No, no, no. There was a gin involves that's very much better. Excuse Jin's have been leaving my credit cards at restaurants, my whole life. But you don't believe in Jinn. So I believe in Jin's when I'm unrealizable. All right. We're at the French quarter. We're in an alleyway, and there's like a combination of tourists and tour guides and unicorn horses with lit up fairy wings and folks just walking around with coffees and these like neon ghost like physi-, frozen drinks. I really want. I think that's just acohol. Yeah. I want that. And it's beautiful. There's brick buildings. There's old shudders. There's like the, you know, the French quarter New Orleans like look architecture. I do want to know what the hordes our or. Okay. The tour guide said we were going to feel the orbs the tour guides say when we saw her smoking before we started our tour there are these orbs that come up when you take pictures. So if you look at old pictures, they don't really come up in digital photos. They come up in like regular picture. So when you go back to your photos when you're like a kid you'll see little like little circles behind heads. Those are either spirits or fairies or whatever or some kind of light that the no it's not about light about a spirit. You'll see you'll see the last time. I had come to New Orleans. I had taken a walking ghost tour. I took a picture of a doorway of this haunted house using my canon digital camera. I looked at the photo right after I took it. It looks Pucci but nothing out of sorts. It wasn't until a week later that a bright white orb. The size of a tennis ball appeared floating in the picture. It hadn't been there before it was an orb, and I was determined to find one today. So when they talk about spirits, if you believe in the ghost, we start the tour wandering around the French quarter of New Orleans, our tour guide is fine petite, spunky blond. She told us stories that were fine just fine a little racist. But just fine trying to push our nation. But Dr look all the lights are moving in that building the lanterns lanterns yet the, hey, lanterns Swain. You're right. They left the air conditioning on. No, there's no banter ending going on Cho's. This is New Orleans filthier conditioning on. Nelly. There's orbs in there. More center white. Blue are good. If you get video or they're gray Brown or red, delete, delete. Those are. Delete delete delete gray Brown or red. You're gonna see him and you have to do with me whenever do it wherever this city of particular orbs over. Any daylight cameras? When you try to take bright like pictures at night with a no, no, it's real, okay? It is dusk. And we continue to walk through the narrow streets surrounded by French, colonial architecture. The sun is setting in the streets are shiny from the earlier rain you pass by a building that is under construction and our guide makes us across the street. The spirits become out one like construction or when like dig underground like mentioned earlier, we built over dead bodies here like bourbon, they're doing the news search lines down, but that freaking out earth some home. Go on. But we get a cat. An attachment does. That mean, the hang out with you all do they cut over? They like get on your back. Do they keep me from being alone? Is that what you're at? You can't find it in the living. Oh, you're going to get married to a tree. Tree. Okay, fine. You're gonna married to maybe gin, not know that. With that just asking. So we know what are options are. So so careful so terrible. Up to fifty sick people were stacked in this room from yellow fever. Don't. Because they were single. Because they didn't have anyone to take care of literally what you just said. But I'm here for you tests. We ended up walking around the French quarter for a little bit longer. Not seeing orbs or feeling any energies that is until we come to this tall gray white wall with a dark window inside the tour guide encourage us to put our hand in the window, which I refused, but it should be easy for a non believer of Jin's. Legs are newer Bosch. Right. We've learned on this tour cut a cold spot means evil ghosts. But a. Friendly, happy go. Okay. We're gonna check the temperature a little be the brief. I don't know. But like there's kissing the kids on the lower level. So from a little bit. Building full of the ghost of children died of yellow fever. That's the nothing again. Plumbing fails every. Former cold neutral. Maybe they're in another part of the building right now. Maybe you're protected from angels small amount of your. The band going slow lot of paganistic your finger in their sticky fingers. Not look like a good idea. No, not going to do it. You didn't believe I'm telling but I do believe in bad luck. Inconsistent. Well, you know, I've always been so consistent. You know, something wrong. There's something there's something like there's a feeling that is completely repelling me from putting in there. Do you know what that is what the feeling of believing in ghosts? Remember, I forgot the fuck. No. I didn't never say that. Him. That means. Mickey can do. Kennedy is the ten most setting and they him aided meta him. Lean. When I was a kid whoever said that though lean the longest one. Probably game theme. Games. The game you play during prayer. Not putting the hand in there. She's a believer. I'm not a believer. Did any of us change our minds on ghosts and Jin's after this trip to New Orleans not really tour guide racist. And did we leave the tour halfway through? Most. Definitely I still had one more question. Lingering in my mind, and I needed to follow up with czar a balloon before I could put the story to rest you once told me that. Your your dad has performed exercises in the past. Yeah. I mean, exercise is like this strange word in English that means that like hundreds all of these images of like horror movies. And and it's not at all what he was doing the story. I was told is that in the early eighties. My dad had his own encounter with with someone attempting black magic on our family, and that the process of healing from that then led to him also learning how to help others. He'll and so what I remember as a kid is like families would come to us and they'd be like my kid is possessed. My wife is possessed like the house feels like it has buried in help us figure it out and one of the questions. He would always ask people to start that. I still remember as an adult is like are you praying like are you doing your daily required pairs? And if they said, no, he built, well, let's start there. And so that was always his thing to be like you can't ask God to. Tech you if you're not fulfilling your it's you can ask God to protect you like, you're not even doing your part. And so he would always start there. And then I don't know like he'd sit with people and they'd read Koran and they'd pray and eventually they get better. But there there's something about the like. We call it extra system. So it sounds really fancy, but really what it was was like intense, at least the way I remember. It was intense intense worship sessions. The hard thing about that though is that that means that you're doing the quota quick circum in your free time while you've got a regular job always used to worry about like what the spiritual impact of it was on on him and our family because it wasn't like you could be fulltime worship to develop the resilience needed to mess with the gyms. Right. Like you had a day job to he actually he didn't from for as long as I can remember until I was probably like eighteen or so. And there weren't a lot of people in southern California. Who did so for at least the next decade? I remember like we would still get calls like a house phone back then. And so people would call the house and ask and we like it was like a family effort to go over done like that chapter is closed. It's weird. We all the exercises in were czar Blue's father was doing at home. Surely, she must have had one experience. I remember that my mom would sometimes that she wake up in the middle of the night, and she fell should feel like the djinn were shaking the bed. And we'd always be like why that's that's to be fair. I should double check that story with her. And she'll probably get mad that I said it on a podcast. But that's like actually something that I remember that that they'd be like, this is why you have to pray so much because if you're messing with them if you're started like, it's so bad, you what is it? Like, you gotta bring a knife to a knife fight. And so if you're with Jin's got I remember, so I remember that. And sometimes if there wasn't like spacer availability at the mosque like he'd have to do the stuff at home, and that would always like free, my family out and my grandma lived with us. But she'd always be like, what are you guys doing way too close for comfort? Why are you inviting that in and tough because you helping people, but there's a cost to it. Yeah. So at the end of the day. What do you actually believe? So what do you believe that idea need to clear the record? All right. Yeah. With with the record. I don't believe in nothing. Uh-huh. It's clear from this episode that you believe in Jin's. I mean, I don't this. The thing is these words have different meanings. Now, you know, what I like, it it just and the way that it was written at the time that it was written like people were describing things differently. Like the world was different. So I just I don't like being banned to this times definition of what that means. Do you know what I mean when there is a language? I hear that reflects the nuance of the way I believe in it, then I'll use it. Okay. And the reason why couldn't now in retrospect, I know the reason why I couldn't put my hand in there. Okay. What does it feel so disrespectful? Interesting the fifth thing that was just repelling me that there was so much grief there, especially like literally the time were hearing about the detention centers of children, and it it just made me. So. So sad. And we're on this like amusement park tour. Yeah. And I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. Yeah. I didn't do it. You didn't do it. This is part of the reason why I don't like saying what it is that I believe because it's so fluid at changes. I realized that later I have feelings I them and the thoughts form so I like leaving room to that. So show we hope you enjoyed it though. So fun test. Yeah. This was very work intensive episode of both of us. We hope you enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun putting things together. It was when hearing our friends again. Yeah. Hi, Scipio highs be. Yeah. And now we have this recording of our adventure through the streets of New Orleans, and it was good to hear your friends to Hoda and hurt her family stories. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to Oliver friends that were honor show. Thanks for joining us. We'd like to give a special shout out and shoot gun to a dear friends. Let. Envy them for the deficit. Thank you desire balloon. You can follow on Twitter at Zara, Lou think you to be hit bus ride who can follow on Twitter at suburbia bus. Right. Thank you desire dysphoric cousin Hoda in this episode. We also used songs from the bubble gums album Brown more to chef which you can download at been Kemp. Thanks for listening to the good Muslim, bad Muslim podcast hosted by Taza med ins are Pash. He and follow TASR on Twitter at tatty star. That's T as E Y S T A R in Zara at sorry comedy. That's the A H R a comedy the show is produced edited by Quincy Sarah Smith, and you can find us on the web at good Muslim bad Muslim dot com to follow the conversation. Please hash died. Good Muslim, bad, Muslim, good Muslim ban. Muslims reported at the potluck podcast studio. Located at visual communications communications development, supports the voices of Asian American. They find media artists empower communities and Tonj perspective of their annual pro. Include the cabbie award qualifying. Los Angeles victim festival armed with a camera fellowship and see through the conference for creative pump. Learn more at BC online that work good Muslim badmouth from the pound member of potluck. Collective features stories invoices the Asian American community. Car. Jin's are made a fire wanna be made a fire.

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How to Choose Effective, Science-based Mental Health Apps, with Stephen Schueller, PhD

Speaking of Psychology

30:42 min | 3 weeks ago

How to Choose Effective, Science-based Mental Health Apps, with Stephen Schueller, PhD

"Twenty twenty has been a watershed year in digital mental health care the corona virus pandemic and a summer of racial reckoning have left many Americans stressed anxious and depressed while at the same time, the pandemic has made it more difficult to obtain in-person mental healthcare can't technology help to bridge that gap. Many consumers seem to think. So one market research firm founded downloads of the top twenty mental wellness. APPS rose almost thirty percent from January to April this year. But. Among the thousands of APPS that aim to help people with everything from stress to anxiety to PTSD to sleep problems, how many are based on solid scientific research, how many live up to what they promise and how can you as a consumer make informed choices based on your mental health needs welcome speaking of psychology the flagship podcast of the American Psychological Association that explores the connections between psychological science and everyday life I'm Kim meals. Or. Guest today is Dr Steven Schuler. Director of one Mind Cyber Guide, a nonprofit mental health APP reviewing website that's been called a consumer reports of digital mental health. He is also a professor in the Department of Social, ecology at the University of California Irvine where he works on developing and evaluating digital mental health technologies with the goal of expanding access to mental health care. Welcome. To Spring of Psychology Dr. Schuler thanks so much in real excited dion here as as I just mentioned in the intro one mind cyber guide has been called the consumer reports of digital mental health. Why did it get that monitor? What does that mean and is this something that we need out there in the marketplace? We'll so I definitely think it's something we need out in the marketplace. There are a host of different digital mental health products on most of these being apps if you were to go to the APP store and to put in the search box depression anxiety stress. Ptsd you would get tens of thousands of responses across different terms In fact, some estimates suggest that is about twenty to twenty, five, thousand mental health apps that are out there and trying to find a good what is like finding a needle in a haystack, and so definitely, we find that a lot of consumers need some help in terms of separating the good from the bad. The effective from the not effective science back from the ones that aren't science backed. What we do at one mind cyber guide is we identify we review products on multiple dimensions. How credible is it? Does it have science backing that this product actually works? Is it based off of evidence based techniques we look at the user experience is it easy to learn easy to use easy to navigate is free from technical glitches and? We look at issues around data security and privacy does the APP live up to standards of regulation? Does it keep your data safe? Does it not sell your data to third party of individuals and I think all these things are things that should figure into a decision on whether an APP might be a reasonable product for you to try to be able to promote on mental health and wellness. How do you at the? Cyber Guide decide which APPs to review since there's so many out there covering such a range of conditions. Yeah. It's a good question when we get asked a lot, it's a it's a little bit of art and a little bit of a science, and so you know we really want focus on products that people are using sweet look at the number of downloads into the use of those products by consumers we want. To focus on products that are back by science, and so we constantly are looking at the scientific literature in terms of you know, what what works, what is evidence behind it we also wanNA focus on things they're useful for people, and so we focus on products that fit the needs of different consumers on. We have partnerships with various organizations than they help us figure out what products their constituents are interested in. And so I think the processes that we use to identify what products that we look at kind of aligns with the ways that people decide to use these things they they hear about them from trusted sources from their doctors, their friends from family members, they read articles about them on social media or websites. Or they might seen advertisement for product Couple of different places and so I think we at one mind cyber we're constantly looking all that information and then we have prioritize things based off of again what people are using and what the scientists saying, who are your reviewers and their qualifications how do they become reviewers for the cyber guide? So one minute, Sabir Guy, we have team different reviewers in-house that review different products for for website and those reviewers all undergo trading to be able to use. The. Materials, we use to be able to evaluate products. We also do some contracting out for some of our review material to outside experts to clinical psychologists. And other mental health professionals. But those are usually what we call. Professional reviews in. So on the one mind cyber guide website in addition to those criteria that mentioned the credibility, the user experience and transparency row data security privacy. We also have sort of a narrative description of how you might use this product in your life and one of the pros and cons of the different clinical considerations and those narrative reviews all written by professionals. So the individuals doing those credibility user experience and transparency reviews are all members. Of the one mind Cyber Guy team that are trained to be able to use those rating scales with fidelity and reliably do you collect any information from the users and use that as a basis for how you do various products? You know that's a good question. I think it's something that would be really useful. It's not something that we actually currently do at one mind cyber guide but definitely something that we have a lot of interest in. We've done a little bit of that information before, but it's it's hard to track that and I think that's actually one thing that really necessitates. The having a product like what might cyber guide is that you would think about where those consumer reviews often live in. Those are the APP store, and so you go to the APP store. You see you know this person thinks five-star up this person thinks is a four star up and what we find is that the Ratings of those those user ratings from the APP, stores often don't relate to the credibility and the benefits of those products now. I think there's some problems with the way that those ratings appear the APP store. So I think that there's a lot of companies that are probably paying people to put. Positive ratings in the APP store or you know their bias. So only the people are having really good experiences are going to the APP store sleep ratings. So I don't mean that to say that I don't think consumer. The impact on consumers in the benefits from consumers in the views of consumers are important I just think a it's a tricky thing to figure out how to collect systematically unbiased in an unbiased fashion like we tried to do with the work we do with guide. It's something that we're still trying to figure out the best way to be able to incorporate. So I would really hope that that would be something that when mine cyber guide would be using it the future but I think it's still a really important open question about how to best collect that information. kind of kind of risky using yelp to choose the restaurant where you WANNA eat tonight. I think that's a a great point and I think you know I, sort of I, love restaurants. So I like the metaphor. Of liked twitter, we used to be able to go to them but. I think what we think about. Sometimes it cyber guide is that we sort of are the the Michelin Star equivalent. So we have experts going. We're trying to figure out like at the best what is this product capable of and I think the yelps are important as well. you know because there's a lot of information value that gets added from consumer ratings and Michelin Stars at yelp ratings don't always line up. And I think that we would need both but I think we need both in a way sort of acknowledges wider the. Pros and cons of each approach. If I have a four and a half star rated Taco Bell I don't think about that as being on the same standard as a well reviewed Mexican restaurant has Michelin Star. But maybe that tells me something about that particular location and so I think bringing that information together I think is really valuable, but again, it has to be done in a way. That understands each of those approaches, the Michelin approach and the yelp Roach have strengths and limitations, and you WanNa leverage the strengths while downplaying bill limitations. How much should consumers rely on APPS for their mental health issues? Are there some conditions that are better suited to abstinent others for? For example, I can't envision someone with a serious mental health issue such as say schizophrenia getting much help from an APP. I I'd like to say that. APPS are no replacement for therapist. These are not meant to be replacements for traditional medieval services for mental health professionals, and so I think that there's sometimes a false takata me made between apps versus traditional treatment, and I, think that really the best case scenario should be. Technology plus traditional services technology in human services. When we look at the research however, though pretty much anything, you can treat through a psychosocial intervention through traditional treatments you can treat using a digital technology as either you know in some sort of combination with human supporter or with some sort of relationship with some human support So they're definitely there are apps out there for psychosis, their APPs out there for bipolar disorder their APPs out there for a host of serious mental illnesses. I think actually you know interesting I, think one of the the products that I'm really interested when it comes to psychosis in schizophrenia is looking at these cognitive remediation products. So these are technologies that essentially provide brain training to be able to improve the cognitive functioning and those tools work. There's a lot of robust scientific evidence behind them but again, the those aren't seen as a replacement for some of the other pieces they're part of the treatment than individual within Costa Schizophrenia might receive to be able to promote their recovery so. We find that these tools work for a variety of different people now. I think depending on the mental health challenge at someone's facing there might be more or less appropriate uses of these technologies in sort of the continuum of care So for example, in the UK the. National Institute for Clinical Excellence Actually recommends digital treatments as front line treatments for. The treatment of depression anxiety they don't have that same recommendation for serious mental illness. So I think for common mental health issues. These might be very nice sort of line treatments or might be ways to sort of really introduce the skills that get taught in traditional psychosocial treatments. For more serious mental illnesses they might play a slightly different role so I think research. Really. Supports that these things are useful across a variety of conditions but the way that we use the might different. How how much is this being taught right now in a graduate psychology programs are are people being trained to use APPS, part of the therapy that there they may offering future I don't think it's a major part of current clinical programs at least not broadly Trained I think that there's still developing expertise in this area. Some places where we see a lot of good work in training and implementation. So for example, the Department defensive, the Veterans Administration has been front runners both the development of these tools they were leading. Experts in terms of developing some of the first mental health apps including PTSD coach, and they continue to have a suite of different products because they have so many different tools they're really training people in the Dod via to use these tools in their practice but I think if you go to like graduate since psychology, there's probably not a lot of work that's really looking at teaching people how to use technology thoughtfully their clinical work, and so I think this is something that. Really would be important area to dress in future training programs in is something bad. I care a lot about because I think that. This is not technology instead of people, and so I think we need to train workforce that's educated to use these tools in their practice. What makes for an engaging user experience? Why are some APP stickier than others and make users comeback doesn't make them more effective if people actually use them systematically? Yeah. I think that that I think that is the case that people who use these products more to get more out of them. I think the science of engagement is a it's a challenging area because I think that there are reasons where. People may not use a tool is much still benefit. So for example, there might be deter mile uses happy abandonment which I got what I needed out of the night I don't need to use it anymore In that, there's also some mechanism through which the people who need the most help tends to use the product, the most turn out the most, and so there's a relationship between clinical severity in-app use. That complicates understanding of the relationship between engagements now comes That being said, you know the only way these things could work as if someone uses it and so I think to answer your question about what makes these APP sticky or engaging or makes people want to come back I think simplicity is a really sort of important piece that it has to be a product that's easy to use, and that integrates into your life. Well, I think a lot of these sort of digital health technologies make people's lives harder by giving them something more to do and none of us need something more to do in our lives, and so I think the best products are ones that sort of simply. Reduce Burden and reduced complication by sort of seamlessly integrating to a person's life I think also. Being able to meet the needs of the user. So some people might really want videos and other forms of media to engage in some people might do well from having very brief serve exercises to read, and so I think it's also the case that. One APP is going to meet the needs of sort of all different users really appeal to everyone and so I think. Understanding who the APP is built for and having the the content in the interaction styles of the things that really kind of that different person. So I think an important location of that frame that thinking is that for a consumer if you're interested in using one of these products up to try a couple of different them. So if you want to use a mindful this APP to download, maybe two or three mindfulness APPs try on a couple of imitations see which ones really fit your lifestyle. The way you like to engage content the ones that make sense to you that you liked the color schemes, you're all those things I think play. A big role, and then decide to kind of use that that product and I think that's one of the the benefits I kind of introduces a challenge is like there's twenty to twenty, five, thousand things out there. So it's really hard to find once evidence space, I think the flip side of that is because so many that means if you do a little bit of searching, you might be able to find one that really does fit what you need when you're looking for one of these products. Let's talk a little bit about data privacy. You mentioned that as being one of the aspects that you look at when you're evaluating APPS and there's been. A lot of chatter in the news lately about at least one one of these big APP companies possibly mining user data for marketing purposes How much should consumers be worried about this and what can they do to protect themselves? I think it's definitely something should be concerned about and we did a review where we looked we took a deep dive into the data security privacy policies about one hundred, twenty different apps for depression, and we found that about half of those didn't have data security privacy policy and of the half that did only half of those privacy and security policies were what we deemed acceptable. So. There's a lot of variants. There's also a lot of our I should say there is. Not a lot of information out there for a lot of these products. So I, definitely think that consumers should read the data security and privacy policy. Look I know I looked at a lot of terms and services in privacy policies for different technologies. Idea when it's a big wall of tech's just click accepted I move on but I think you know one thing I think is important. One easy thing to sort of look at does the product to security and privacy policy 'cause I mentioned many don't is I think that's a red flag in itself. If if they don't tell you what they're doing with your data, you probably don't get I mentioned those department of Defense in the a APPS I. Think those are very good apps with good data security privacy policies because they are developed. By the DA, the DOD and so they don't collect a the type of information that some of these other products collect. That are potentially using you as a revenue generating source when you're using their product and so I think looking at where the outcomes from is important I think. The other thing to consider is you know everyone is a little bit different in terms of their. Sense of what what data's being collected from them and how comfortable they are with that. So I fully appreciate that when I use Google maps, Google knows where I'm going all the time and that's a tradeoff willing to make because you know not going anywhere. That's all that exciting and I really liked to use. Google. Maps and so I think if we think about data and privacy is somewhat transactional. That a person can be. Hopefully make an informed decision whether the transaction. The benefit they get from that product is worth whatever they're. They're giving up our potentially giving up when they're using that product and. That's one reason why we actually call our data security and privacy scale transparency scale because to us, it's really the important pieces. The transparency of the information such that a consumer can make an informed decision of whether. What information being collected from them is worth the benefit the receiving from using that product what are some of the best mental health apps out there for various conditions I mean I know there's no one size fits all answers, but there must be some that rise above the rest. Yeah. I mean I think that it's a challenging question indefinitely. One thing that we do it when mine cyber guy is we don't endorse any specific product we have our school. And we sort of you know emphasize have noted for you is that There's different ways to evaluate these things. There's different. Aspects that people might care about. So some someone might care a lot about credibility I really WanNa know that this works and might be kind of technically savvy, and so they're a little bit less concerned about the user experience on the flip side maybe someone is more open to a tool that doesn't have as much science behind it if it's really engaging they like it and it's really sticky for them So. I think again, there's a lot of diversity in terms of what what fits for specific people I mean I think that as I mentioned those Va Ta'ed, Dod APPs, are have a lot of evidence behind them We really liked them PTSD coach, there's a Cova coach APP that kind of focused on stress and anxiety related to Kovin. These APPs do lean a little bit more towards veterans and so there's a little bit more of that flavor in some of their contents sometimes, which might be a barrier for some people but I think what's great about those apps that you know that there based on evidence based practices they have a solid clinical development team behind them in that you know that they work really well. I think that know for a variety of other APPS. There are things that. Maybe. Kind of aligned with what you're looking to get. So for example, our group has been looking at mooching apps recently I really like new tracking APP called daily Oh because it kind of lets track my moods away. That's really useful for me, but that might not be useful for everybody. So you know I really do sort of encourage noted about a before. That one of the best way to find an APP may work you go to one bank cyber guide website poke around a little bit maybe two or three APPs in area two or three meditation APPs that seemed like the the best picks. So made you peck head space called and insight timer you look at those different products and you see which one fits best for you. I. Think that's really an approach that we serve advocate terms of trying to figure out which what a person might end up using able to help promote their mental health and wellness and I know the health insurance company that that I have at work has given us. To at least one. Mental Health APP for free, which we you would normally pay for is that something that's on the increase where insurance companies are also promoting these APPs yeah. That's definitely the case. We actually just a review of that through one mind Cyber Guide and looked at a couple of different insurance companies and found that there were there were a lot of different products that they were providing although nowhere near as fast as the twenty thousand out there. So probably about like half a dozen or half a dozen to a dozen products that different insurance companies were providing my insurance company actually provides. When as well. So I got notification that my strength, which is a cognitive behavioral therapy APP is available through my insurance, and so that is something worth looking at is that if you have insurance and are covered, there might be a product that your insurance is covering that there would usually be a payment associated with it, but you might be able to receive it for free and then additionally sometimes these are products that are not publicly available on the APP store. So you may not be able to download it yourself. They usually go through enterprise contracts to companies are insurance companies. Insurance providers, and so you might have some access to some products. You might not be able to find on your own through your insurance company. In a recent paper that you published, you wrote about three misconceptions about digital mental health, and one of those misconceptions was that mental health technologies are a new way to deliver psychotherapy. Why is that a misconception? If digital mental health is not a new way to deliver therapy? What what is I think that technology offers a lot of opportunities to do things in a new in different way and so I think that if we are merely translating traditional practices. From therapy to technology. We are doing a disservice. To individuals who might be able to be betterer reached and better served by new technologies. So for example, Make sort of a metaphor here is that a lot of these early technologies came out when they came out they really had the sort of session frame of thinking that was present in sort of psychotherapy practice. It's like you log onto the website, you do your fifty minute sessions so you know you. Read something for a couple of minutes they do some exercises, and then you have to wait until next week to get your next session and that's not the way people use technologies. We're like we're a net flicks were not demand and world you want things. Now you want things in the moment if I wanted to learn how to. Cook an Omelette and I signed up for a to the web site him for class. It would be ridiculous to say that like, okay we'll stephen wait wait a week and we'll teach you how to crack banks. Wait another week will teach you how to cook I want you to video this show me on make Omelette right here and I want to be eating Ogden fifteen minutes and so I think that technology has the potential to sort of better create these on demand real world experiences and I think that those are those lead to open questions that we have to sort of further evaluate I think that you know. So I think that we need to think about how? Clinical practices and behaviour change techniques how the science of what we know what what works can be translated technologies I. Think we can't merely make a digital version of psychotherapy because that's kind of probably the most boring use of what technologies capable las beyond you work with mental health apps. You're also interested in the intersection of technology and mental health. I think that's what we've been talking about. You recently co authored a report on teens, social media and mental. Health that suggested that researchers look at the topic and nuanced ways and not just ask whether social media is good or bad for you. Can You? Can you talk a little bit more about that report in what you found he? I think that there's a lot of concern I think reasonably. So right now with as much time as everyone's spending in front of these screens about the impact that screens and social media might be having on people's mental health. And I think certain more specifically some concerns that the increased rates of social media use are leading to increased rates of things like depression, anxiety and suicide. I want to just say that I think what we've seen looking across the the research is that the research is not bearing out that relationship does not seem that social media use. On average or a whole is leading to. The increased rates of these things I think that there is a lot of nuance there that some people are helped by social media. Some people are hurt a lot of people. It's probably you know dot not doing much of anything when it comes to their mental health and wellness right now. Think. One thing that is really important. You know that we talk about that report I think is important terms of reframing. The debate is that screen time is a concept doesn't have a lot of meaningfulness and the current way we use technology. So what does an? Hour of use of instagram or twitter luck like you're reading some content, you're creating some Content York contributing some content, your direct messaging with some people and so I think that what one of the sort of things that we sort of note is that to think about screen time in the same way we thought about it with Shows Radio shows things where content is much more chucked and something that you absorb is really different in this new world where you're sort of constantly interacting with different. These different technologies and so that we need better ways to sort of stand what is a person actually doing on these platforms when they are interacting with them and we need to think more about like what are the wellness facilitating activities? What are the wellness detrimental activities that might take place on these different technology platforms? What do you think the future holds for the use of technology and not just APPs for the field of mental health? What do you think would be helpful going forward both for the field of psychology and also for consumers yeah. I really think that in ten to twenty years from now we're not gonNA be talking about digital health or digital mental health. We're GONNA talking about health and mental health and ways that uses technology. I. Think that technology going to become deeply integrated into the way that we see services delivered and see people reached I think that. The current pandemic is accelerating that we've seen a real uptake in the use of telehealth and virtual visits and I think to me. The next stage is really thinking about how we those kind of you know we're talking about a little bit earlier, those new sort of experiences using technology I think that there's a lot of sort of exciting opportunities for things like virtual reality, augmented reality, different technologies that really make these things much more pervasive and persuasive in people's lives and I it wouldn't surprise me. If in a lot of instances that they've first door, a lot of people walk through when they think about receiving mental health services or using tools of sort of promote their wellness or wellbeing is really a a digital tool I. I think that these are really scale, potentially scalable, cost effective and effective resources, and I think that we'll see a lot more use of these the sort of continuum of mental health care and while the support will thank you so much for joining. US Today Dr Schuler this has been really really interesting I. Hope it's going to be edifying to our listeners. Thanks so much as great to be on the program, you can find previous episodes of speaking of psychology on our website at speaking of psychology dot org or wherever you get your podcasts. If you have comments or ideas for future podcasts, you can email us at speaking of psychology at APA, dot org that speaking of psychology all one word at a p a dot org. Speaking of psychology is produced by Lee Wineman our sound editor Chris Diane. Thank you for listening for the American Psychological Association. I'm Kim Mills?

Dr Steven Schuler yelp American Psychological Associa Michelin Stars psychological science Twenty twenty depression Dod Director University of California Irvin Google twitter psychosis professor
#178  The Reality Illusion

Making Sense with Sam Harris

1:07:10 hr | 11 months ago

#178 The Reality Illusion

"Making sense podcast. This is Sam Harris Okay housekeeping well last housekeeping was intense. That's new music. All of you are dealing with emotionally custom grief over the new music. Let's just hang out with it for a while. See how I feel in the New Year. Also dropped a paywall on the podcast for those. Who Need my rationale around all that you can listen to the last housekeeping escaping in the public? Feed those of you who are subscribers. Never even heard it and it would make a long story short unless you subscribe into the podcast. Through Sam Harris Dot Org you will only be getting partial episodes now for instance. Today's podcast his around three hours long. But if you're listening on the public feed you'll get the first hour merely so if you care about the conversations stations. I'm having here and want to hear them. In their entirety subscribing through San Harris Dot org is the only option. I'm clearly at odds with the the trend here of all podcast being free and ad supported but all I can say is that the response has been fantastic and and the podcast is on much better footing even after only a week. So thank you for that as always if you actually can't afford afford subscription. I don't want money to be the reason why you don't get access to my digital content whether that's making says podcast or not waking up APP or anything else that I might produce in the space and a solution for that is again if you can't afford boarded simply send an email to support at Sam Harris Dot Org for the podcast and support a waking up dot com for the APP and you'll get a free year and you can do that as many times as you need. We don't means test these things there. No follow up questions. This is based on your definition of whether you need this for free and that's as it should be so anyway. This is the business model. The podcast cast is now a subscription. Just like the APP and if you can't afford it you can have it for free okay. So today I'm speaking with Donald Hoffman. And I'm joined by my wife Hannukah. This is the first time I am. We have jointly interviewed a guest and Sure it won't be the last Hannukah's interest in this topic definitely helped us get deeper into it. Donald Hoffman is a professor of cognitive science at the University of California Irvine. His writing has appeared in scientific American and on edge DOT ORG and his work has been featured in the Atlantic wired and Quanta and his new book is the case against reality. Why evolution hid the truth from our eyes and there was an article in the Atlantic profiling him that made the rounds? He also had a Ted talk that many many found bewildering as you'll hear he has what he calls a user interface theory of perception and many people. Find this this totally confounding and it can seem crazy at first glance and even at second glance and I must say when I first read the Atlantic article and watch his Ted Talk. I wasn't entirely sure. What Hoffman was claiming as you'll hear on got very interested in his work and had several meetings with him and then we finally decided to do this podcast and it is a fairly steep conversation? I do my best to Defined terms as we go along but for those of you for whom this is your sort of thing. I think you'll love it over the course of three hours. We really leave virtually no stone unturned in this area. We talk about how evolution his failed to select for true perceptions of reality we talk about Hoffman's interface theory of perception talk about the primacy Z.. Of Math and logic and what justifies our conviction there talk about how space and time cannot be fundamental to our framework. We talk about the threat of pyschological skepticism. Causality is a useful fiction. The hard problem of consciousness agency free will pass Ike ISM. What Hoffman calls? The Mathematics of conscious agents philosophical idealism. Death Breath psychedelics the relationship between consciousness and mathematics and many other topics and now on a gun and I bring you Donald Hoffman. Oh we're here with Donald Hoffman. Donald thanks for joining us. Thank you Sam's a great pleasure. So this is this is unusual as the first time that on my wife. WHO's lonely? been on the PODCAST. Once many of our listeners will remember that podcast is the first time anyone has heard me laugh out loud and in a decade so you came to my attention on the basis of Atlantic article. I I think that was making the rounds. And you'll say Ted talk. I don't know which preceded the other but then on Scott completely obsessed with what you're we're doing and you know maybe once a month or so. I would hear that. There was some export from a conversation. She was having with you. So it just seemed like you know it would be professional malfeasance for her not to really anchor this conversation so absolutely so on and that was all in the context of my writing my book I was doing research for my book and Don was working on a book on a similar topic or really on the same topic just different perspective and so yeah so I so I had wanted his input on my manuscript on was honored that he trusted me with his manuscript. And we Kinda we actually gave each other. We were kind of in the writing process together so gave each other notes and then don was extremely generous with his time and continued to meet with me as I had many. Follow up questions and yeah yeah put put up with with my curiosity even though those grim now. I'm not sure any of it was helpful to you but I it was it was it was great for me to very much fun for me and and very very helpful because you also give me feedback on my book and really help bring my book to a broader audience as well so I was grateful and I was really grateful that you did all the driving right before we jump into your thesis. Which is has the virtue of being on what I think is perhaps the most interesting topic of wall and some of the points? You make are so counterintuitive is to seem crazy on their face so it's going to be fantastic wade into this with you but what is how. How do you summarize your academic and intellectual background before we get started? Well so I I did my undergraduate bachelors at Ucla in what was called quantitative psychology was like a a major in psychology and a minor that had like computer science math courses in and while I was doing that I took a graduate class with professor at Carterton which we were looking at artificial intelligence and ran across the papers of David Marr. wrote this is like seventy seven seventy eight and his papers just really grabbed. My attention. Here was a guy that was trying to build visual systems. That worked with mathematical precision. Just waving leaving your hands. But actually writing mathematics and something that you could actually build eventually into robotic vision systems so I found out he was at MIT IN AI lab. I've been what's now the brain and cognitive sciences department and I was lucky enough to get to go there and work with him he. He died a little over a year after I was there so I only got to work with them for fourteen or fifteen very young. He was like thirty five or thirty five eight. He had leukemia. But but I did get to work with him and see how I was mind works. It was revolutionary was a wonderful time yet. Mit and then my mother visor. Whitman Richards the David. Marin witten enriches were Roy joint advisers and then women was my soul advisor after mar died and so I was very entrusted. Going there in the problem of you know. Are we machines. It's not figured what better way to get at that question. Then doing something in an artificial intelligence lab where we try to build machines and understand the scope and limits of what machines could do so. I was always very interested in human nature. And how you know. Artificial intelligence is related to humans. Are we just artificial intelligence Belgian ourselves just machines or is there something more and I didn't want to hand wave. I really wanted to understand what it means to be a machine and what might be different or not about humans humans and so so. That's sort of my mind electric background and what I focused on because you know of of Mara was perception visual perceptual. Say he wrote a book that was is was quite celebrated very early detailed look at visual perception. which I it's it's amazing? What contribution he made in such a short time decades after his death you know? His book is still recommended as as a must read book in Cognitive Science Neuroscience absolutely it was brilliant and he was brilliant in person who the the lab meetings were were electric. He had assembled this world class group of scientists of around him. They congregated around him. I just was so lucky to be watching this new science me of being revolutionized by by this young man Yad it thirty-five he. He did all. This and died was truly stunning. Neha you're not Irvine as professor right at University of California Irvine. You're the and you have been meeting over the years with some of the great lights in consciousness studies for lack of a better word. There was these meetings of love. The helm holds society. Is that what you're the homeless club. CLUBE so In that had Francis Cricket and I never met Francis but Joe Bogan who you write about in your book is somebody who I did meet. And he was quite a character. fund dinner. Yeah he's he was the neurosurgeon. Who did the bulk? The split brain procedures for which Roger Sperry won the Nobel Prize. And that's right and Iran's Idell was involved in that work and Michael Xanada. Yes yes and before we jump in. I want our listeners. To be sensitized to how seemingly preposterous Chris some of your initial claims will be and I can guarantee you that on certain of these points the sense of their counter intuitive nece this will wear off and there's something thrilling about this the thrill that was exemplified by Ana Kaz obsession with your work. I know his spread to other people. We have a friend who perhaps I shouldn't name. Who claim that she she accosted you at some function and just completely fan girl do as a as a Groupie so we know that I think once you start wearing sunglasses indoors you you will have started a cult and and what the word out against you but In in the meantime perhaps the best place to start. I would imagine we just track through with the way you do it in your book starting with the interface theory of perception. But you can start wherever you want want and we. We just want to go through it all and we'll have questions throughout right so most of my colleagues who study perception assume that evolution by natural selection has shaped us to see truths about the world. None of my colleagues think that we we see all of reality as it is but most of my colleagues would argue that accurate perceptions what we call vertical perceptions perceptions at tell us trues about the world will make us more fit so accurate perceptions. Vertical perceptions are fitter perceptions and the argument that's classically given is actually actually quite intuitive. So the idea. Is that those of around sisters who actually were better at feeding fighting fleeing because they could see reality as it is were more more likely to pass on their genes which code for the more accurate perceptions and so after thousands of generations of this process. We can be quite secure for that. Our perceptions are telling trues about the world of course not exhaustive truth but the truth is that we need we see those aspects of reality that we need to stay alive and reproduce it seems like a really compelling argument seems very very intuitive how could it go wrong. So at first glance it seems some measure uh of verticality. Some measure being in touch with reality as it is would increase an organism's fitness. There must be a fit between tracking rally as it is and adaptive advantage exactly. That's that's the standard intuition for for most of my colleagues Steven pinker has actually published papers. where he points out some some contradictions to that idea but most of my colleagues would go the idea that yes? It's better is more fit to see reality as it is at least part of reality well. I began to think that that might not be true. Because my initial shaw intuition was that maybe would just take too much time and too much energy to see reality as it is so evolution tries to do things on the cheap so maybe the you pressures to do things quickly and cheaply would would maybe compromise our ability to see the truth and so I began to work with my graduate students. Justin mark and Brian Marian run run two thousand eight or so two thousand nine and I had them write some simulations where we would simulate foraging games where we could create worlds as with resources and put creatures in those worlds that could roam around and compete for resources and some of the creatures we let see all the truth so they were the vertical creatures and others. I didn't let see thrall. We had them only see the fitness payoffs. We can talk about with fitness payoffs. That's an important concept but what we found was us in these simulations that the that the creatures that saw reality as it is couldn't out compete the creatures of equal complexity that that saw none of reality and were just tuned to the fitness payoffs and so that began to make me think there was something real here so now I should say what fitness pay your your mm-hmm so think in evolution you can think of evolution by natural selection much like a video game so in a video game. Your focus is to collect points as quickly as you can without being distracted by other things and if you get enough points in a short time you then might I get to go to the next level otherwise you die in. An evolution by natural selection is very similar the instead of the game points you have fitness payoffs and so you can go around collecting them as quickly as you can and if you get enough you don't go to the next generation but your genes get passed to the next generation and so so it'd be a little more specific. Think about the fitness payoff. That say a T. bone steak might offer so that if if you're a hungry lion looking to eat that T. bone steak offers lots of fitness payoffs. But if you're that same lion in your full you're looking to mate all of a sudden not bone steak offers you know fitness payoffs whatsoever and if you're a cow in any state for any activity but t-bone steaks not gonNA is not a fifth thing for you whatsoever and and so that's gives you an intuition about what we mean by fitness payoffs in evolutionary theory fitness. Payoffs do depend on the state of the world. Whatever the objective reality might be? They do depend on the state of that world but also and importantly on the organism it state and the action so fitness payoff functions are very complicated functions and the state of the world is only one of of the parts of the main of that function. There's lots of other aspects to it and so they're really really complicated functions of the state of the world and the organism state on. Its action was now. I think you should introduce the desktop analogy. Because against what you just said can sound suspiciously similar to more or less what every Marie life scientists and certainly neuroscientists would agree is true which is whatever reality. is we see some simulate grim of it that is broadcast to us by the way our our our nervous system sections of the world. So you know. We see within a certain band with light light. You know bees detect you know another bandwidth and we by the very nature of this. Don't get all the information that's available to be gotten so we don't have a complete picture of the thing in itself or the reality behind appearances but implicit in that kind of status quo assumption. Is that the things we do see really exist out out there in the real world in some basic sense in space and time again. It's not clear. How much lost in translation? But there is some conformity between what we see as a glass of water on the table and a real object in the world in third person. Space how how is your vision of things departed from what is now scientific. Commonsense yet does depart dramatically from that that standard view. The Standard. You as you said is that we may not see all the truth but we do see some aspects of reality accurately and what the evolutionary simulations and then later theorems that at my colleague Jay Tom Kosh prove indicate is that our perceptions were shaped by natural selection not to show us just the little bits of truth. We need to see but rather other to hide truth. Altogether and to give us instead a user interface. So if you you know a metaphor like to us as if you're writing a book and and the icon for the book is blue and rectangle in the middle of your screen. Does that mean that the book itself in your computer is blue. Rectangular in the bill of the computer will of course not anybody who thought that really misunderstands the point of the user interface. It's not there to show you the truth. which in this metaphor would be the circuits and software and voltages in in the computer the interfaces they're explicitly to hide the truth? If you had to toggle voltages just to to write a book you'd never get done. And if you had to toggle voltages to send an email people would never hear from you. So the point of user interface is to completely completely hide the reality and to give you very very simplified user interface to let you control the reality as much as you need to control put while being utterly ignorant about the nature of that reality and that would the simulations that I've done with students and the theorems are done with with John precaut- Josh indicate is that that natural selection will favor organisms that see none of the truth and just have the simplified simplified user interface so be very explicit spe three dimensional space as we perceive it is just three dimensional. Desktop is not an objective reality independent of us. It's just a data structure that our sensory systems use to represent fitness payoffs. And how to get them and three. Three dimensional objects like tables and chairs even the Moon argest three-dimensional icons in that interface. So once again. They're not our species representations of a true glass. That's really out there or true table that's out there. They are merely data structures that we're using to represent fitness payoffs. And how to get them so so yes in this first description of this wonderful analogy us with the desktop and also of how evolution gives us this false picture. What the deeper reality actually is? I have a few questions here. I'm GonNa Start All. I'm not quite sure where where we'll go there. At least three things that have been brought up so far that that I feel like it's important for us to get clear on terminology and framework for I start really disagreeing and I should say that that I you know you and I've now spent many meetings together. I spent a lot of time challenging you mostly because I actually think there's something very interesting that you're doing and I think you're onto something and so you know in the same way that in my editing work I give the most notes to the books I'm most was passionate about. It's it's in that spirit so so beginning with evolution. I've actually said to you many times that I don't actually think you need the evolution arguments given to make your case for your theory So some of the some of this pushback is actually moot. But I still think it's interesting. I think I agree with this with this evolution. Asian argument up to a point so my first question is really digest. Get us you know on the same page or see if we are on the same page as a starting point. I know that you believe that. Or you're hopeful optimistic about the fact that we can ultimately understand what that deeper reality is this and so that so there must be boundaries to the systems that we're using our brains which have evolved where we can actually get access to the truth so so up until to appoint our brains are giving us all this false information but there's some sense in in which we can actually get access to things that are true about the nature of reality so my question is where do you draw the boundary of an evolved system system that by definition gives us false information about the nature of reality so that outside that boundary is where we might be able to gain access to information that delivers us the truth. And there's kind of a second part to that which is where we might disagree. I believe we've already begun to cross that boundary the science and so the way. I follow your evolution. Argument is simply about direct perceptual information that we get rather than ideas scientific experiments so so if you just take light light I think is always the simplest example. We have not evolved oft perceptual systems to really understand what light is right. Everything everything we've learned about light through the sciences up to quantum mechanics where it gets completely -pletely mysterious and we really don't actually know what light is so so we can kind of all agree and not just the three of us in this room but all of us you know most scientists would agree that ultimately were still. We still don't have this information about what the fundamental nature of reality is. We're we're we're still title stuck there but I would say that we have learned we've gotten much closer to that by these processes that I think are outside outside the boundary of this evolved system that is by definition delivering us. False information right great question and there is a a couple of points about it. I the the the arguments that I've given from evolution. Natural selection against vertical perceptions do not hold against math and logic So that's fervor different than some other let Christian apologists logist like Alvin planting Who've made an argument that sounds very similar to mine that they say that if our census if our cognitive capacities of all they would be unreliable? Reliable that includes our theory building capacity in there for the theory of evolution is unreliable in there for evolution is false. I'm making such arguments right. I'm it is further. The furthest listing from my mind. I'm focused only on the senses and the reason why the argument that says our senses are not vertical doesn't hold for math and logic is that there are evolutionary pressures for us to reason about fitness payoffs two bites of an apple. Give you roughly flee twice the fitness payoff of one bite of Apple. Whatever objective reality might be? We need to be able to reason about fitness payoffs and so whereas the selection pressures are uniformly against ridicule perceptions. There are not uniformly against some elementary competence in math and logic. I'm not of course arguing. That natural selection of shaping to be geniuses math and logic far from it his just at the selection pressures are not uniformly against ability. And every once in a while. You get a you your genius. Go but don't we think the math and logic are giving us space time. I mean th th. There's this can get into a deeper question. Because of course we we now have quantum mechanics which was putting all this into question and many physicists. If not most or talking about space time being something that emerges out of something being more fundamental but they would still say that it emerges and so it seems that it's hard to take so I guess my my argument demint with where you take. This evolution. Argument is as far as space time itself because it seems that we don't yet know you know whether space time is a true true allusion in in some sense but I would say our math and logic has has taken us that far not simply our perceptual systems. Actually let me see if I can add to this point because it's something that came up for me as well so so if we can find this to perception for me is no longer counterintuitive but again. It'll it'll be counterintuitive for many many people but this so the claim is that fitness trump's truth so fully that apprehending the truth perceptually is. It's just not an evolutionary stable strategy. You're going to be driven to extinction among creatures that are optimized for fitness and that it sounds a little crazy. But when when you think of what fitness this means fitness means simply being optimized for survival and procreation right. So as long as you're optimizing for that it's easy to see the U.. Successfully out compete anything that isn't optimized for that and there's also this additional piece which you mentioned which is there's clearly fitness this value I e survival value in throwing away information. That isn't related to fitness right. So that you know every organisms are going to have some bandwidth with you know limits and metabolic limits and tracking every fact. That's out there to track catch priority. And then there's this additional component which is if the ability to make certain distinctions doesn't relate to increase fitness evolution would not have selected for that ability to make those distinctions riser. Oh so he'll expect organisms to be blind to Certain features reality just in principle but there is a sense in which your thesis does bite its own tail and seems to at least potentially subvert itself in that the moment you start to say that okay. Space and time. They don't exist their data structures therefore our notion of objects is a pure interface. Issue is just. It's like a trash can on the desktop. It doesn't really map onto reality as it is you just bracketed logic and rationality which may be defensible sensible but it may itself very notion of natural selection is more than just rationality. It is a causal picture and we might say that causes houses and the the the notion of cause and effect right or the notion that causes precede their effects rather than some notion of teleology. These things are also just data structures so that like every piece you WanNa put on the board given a Darwinian account of anything does sort of fall in the been of more more space and time more objects and so how does this thing completely subvert itself and land you in something like just global skepticism. Which says you know? We're we're in touch with some seeming reality which we really can't ever know anything fundamental about yet great question both both so so so the idea I F that evolution natural selection as we all know in love it involves things DNA and organisms in space and time time and so forth. So how could I ever use the revolution to show and claim to show that things like DNA are just data structures. They're just interface symbols The the reason we can do that is because John Maynard Smith actually took the theory of evolution natural selection and mathematics at he realized we could abstract away from all of the sort of the extraneous empirical assumptions of space in time and DNA and so forth and we could look at. What would he calls just evolutionary game theory theory and so that the logic of natural selection itself can be reduced to competing strategy? Where you make no oncological assumptions whatsoever about the world in which those strategies are playing so so it allows one when someone says natural selection favors true perceptions evolutionary game theory provide you precisely the tool you need to ask how to assess that question independent of all these other empirical assumptions that are standard standard biological evolutionary theories? And so. That's that allowed me to to do this. Now there's another aspect to the argument at a strategy that I'm taking in here and that is that one reason that I went after the evolutionary argument was I actually announced the interface theory my book Nineteen Ninety Eight Visual Intelligence and people like the book except for the chapter on the interface during the thought that was not and and I realized I wasn't going to get my colleagues to pay attention to that idea and less. I talked to them in a language they really understood. Was that that motivated me to go after the evolutionary argument a few years later so the reason I use evolution is not because maybe it's the best argument argument is because is the argument that I knew my colleagues would listen to so i. I'm abstracting away from the whole apparatus of biological evolution to just the the the nuts and bolts of evolutionary game theory which doesn't bring the ontological assumptions and second mighty to the scientists toward any scientific theory as they're just. It's the best tools we have so far. I don't believe any scientific theories including my own. I think belief is is not a helpful attitude. This is the best tool we have so far. Let's look at what this stool says about the claim that natural selection favours vertical perceptions. And whatever deeper so what that tool is sang to me is. There's just no grounds for thinking that any of our perceptions of space and time and objects in any way capture the structure of whatever objective reality algae might be and went one thing. That's nice about this mathematics as well as you might say. Well how in the world could you possibly show that the structure of our perceptions. It doesn't capture the structure of the world unless you knew already what. The structure of the world is immune archie. Shooting yourself in the foot there and and it turns out. You don't have to it. It's really that got wonderful in the mathematics that you can show that whatever the structure of the world might be the probability is zero. That's what we're seeing right and that that makes sense to me too. I'm still stuck on how it extends all the way to space time and and I think which was shouldn't spend too much time time on the evolution piece Mo- mostly because I actually think you don't need it but just from a philosophical perspective. I think it's very interesting and I'm still curious myself can how far this goes visas. Clearly true up to a point at least so if Darwinian evolution by natural selection Shen is a theory about objects in space and time. I mean this is this is this is just a question for you about how you how you view this. Where can you stand outside outside of Space Time and matter to talk about evolved perceptual systems but more specifically what does evolution? You look like or how do you even talk about evolution outside of Space Time. So what are we saying is evolving. What are we saying is surviving what what do evolution and survival even mean in context outside of space and time or is that just an abstract idea that you haven't noticed that starts to look the right question and and that's the power of Evolutionary Game Theory? What John Maynard Smith was able to do was to show? We could talk about abstract strategies competing not not in any particular assumption about space and time. We can get. He was able to abstract away from all the the details of biological evolution in space and time and organisms and so the essence of the Darwin's idea are these abstracts strategies. And we can look at how these strategies compete so you're not abstracts that surviving it. It's an idea it's a mean it's what is the what you do. Is You have an you imagine that there are. There's a population of entities that are competing using these strategies so they're abstract entities in an abstract space with these strategies strategies. And what you do is you you. Just there's something called the replicator equation and what you find in the replicator equation. Is that the number of entities. Is that have a good. Fitness strategy will start to increase. Their proportion will increase the strategies. That have a bad strategy or let you know a lesser strategy tragic and so what you have is. The proportion of the population that has various strategies goes up and down. Well then I guess my question goes back to what what do you you mean by entity so these are just abstract entities that in evolutionary game. Three you don't need to know what the entities are there just place markers eight-year imagining their their entities entities outside of space time best and. That's what the mathematics allows you to do. Well it let me just piggyback on this. You're getting tag team Oh let's talk before so Woah. I apologize in advance. But isn't the very notion of competition in differential success based on parasitic Harrison on the notion of time per se on the notion of causes preceding their affects an entity. Is You know I think what honor goes fishing for their as entities as seem somehow derivative of objects at least the the concept of an object. I mean we're talking about something that's discreet. That's not merely a continuous tenuous reality right. Things can be differentiated. So are how are we not using the same cognitive tools that they've got hammered into us by evolution who's process has only nice selected for fitness and therefore left us a pyschologically close to native reality APPs absolutely. So you're right that the evolutionary the replicator collision itself does have a time parameter right or at least a sequence parameter dimension whether you do it discreetly or or continuously and so that's going to be built into it absolutely doing so by the way is I said I'm not committed to the truth of evolution by natural selection. I'm just using that theory itself to say that whatever the structure of the world is the that theory says the Chances Zero ended our perceptions actually have captured that structure. It leaves it open to ask. Is there a deeper theory of objective. Reality that will give back. Evolution by natural selection as a special case within what I call her space-time interface and that. That's actually what I'm hoping for us. Have a deeper theory that will have that. Go beyond space and time and it'll be on time in the sense that there will be sequence and there will be perhaps a notion of 'cause following a fact but not in a global space time temporal framework. It'll be completely asynchronous and so forth north and we'll get will we call causality in like Minkowski space tyneside's minkowski space or general a terrific curve space time as a projection of a much more deep very of reality in which the very notion of dimension doesn't hold in which time doesn't hold but we can show that though that sulfur. I'm I'm thinking about a dynamics on on abstract graphs in a synchronous dynamics but that can pre projected and simplified into what we call space time in its causality soon mcaliskey spinks I think it's just useful as as a launching off point to to replace. We'll go from here to just say that At the very least think this evolution argument is very useful in terms of opening our eyes to something that I actually think we in some sense we already no and and again you know looking at something like light is a good example where we clearly. We have not been given any tools. Perceptual tools to understand. Understand how electrons operates how you know what is actually happening at a fundamental level and of course. They're all these theories now from everything in string theory too many worlds trying to sort out all of these things that we see through through our science that we have absolutely no intuitions where we have no insight into. We're just getting at through math and logic and and so clearly we haven't evolved systems that help us here. And so I feel like we can agree to two two points that we can move from here onward and the first one is that we can all agree him and you know scientists in general. We don't know what's fundamental the mental nor do we perceive the truth about the fundamental building blocks of reality and to this is where I I'd like to set this up for where consciousness consciousness it is going to who is about to come in. We can agree that physical science has not given us an explanation for conscious we have no understanding of how consciousness arises out of physical processes and so it seems that we can at least agree that it's a legitimate question are it's a limit Jim. It project to wonder if consciousness Nisa something that's more fundamental in that. Were missing that piece in that we thought about it backwards on this time right now is one of the things that I think is so great about your work in his is a very important accordin project. Okay before we get to consciousness which is central to our interest and where there's more controversy at least in in my mind. I want to anchor. What you've said to a very straightforward perception so that our listeners can get in touch? With how counterintuitive. Your thesis is so when you know the three of us are in a room together. Apparently they're objects we can see. What is the status of those those objects like a glass of water when none of us are looking at it and what is is is it status lettuce given the fact that it apparently is always there for any one of us to look at? We have some kind of consensus inter subjective language game aim. We can play here that can reference the glass of water you know at will. How does that map onto your theory of non vertical perception right so I think a good way to see what I'm saying and how counter to but it is is to think about say playing a game like grand theft auto but with virtual? She'll reality out on Syria. You're a headset. And you're seeing a three dimensional world of cars and your own steering wheel and so forth and and it's it's a multiplayer games other people around the world that that see the same car that you're driving and see all the other cars that UC and in that case there of course is no real car that anybody seeing there's just some in this metaphor a bunch of circuits and software and so forth that that's the objective reality in in this metaphor but all the players. There's will agree that they see a red corvette chasing in Green Mustang down the highway at seventy the all agree. Not because there's literally Red Corvette Rebecca chasing a Green Mustang. There is some objective reality. But it's not as it's not corvettes and mustangs that's what we each see. An each person with their own headset headset. He is getting in the example. photons you know thrown to their eyes and their rendering in their own mind the corvette chasing the Mustang so there are as many corvettes mustangs as there are people playing the game because they each see the one that they render and I might be looking at the at the Corvette Ed and I. I'm I look away and I'm now looking at my steering wheel. I no longer see the corvette. I've I have garbage collected the corvette. I'm not making that data structure anymore now. I'm rendering a steering wheel. And now I look back over at the Corbett now. I'm re rendering the corvette so so it looks like the corvette was always there because you know why look away and look back. It's it's right where I expect it to be. But in fact there there is a reality is not corvettes as not mustangs. It's not during those so so an now. So here's the counter-intuitive claim. I'm claiming we all have a headset on all of us and we all have this space time physical objects in the glass of water. Those are all things that I render on the fly when I look at them and then I- garbage collect them in in this part of the evolutionary argument I- garbage collect him because I'm trying trying to save energy and time and memory so I- render it only as I need it and it's really just the glass. I'm seeing a representation of fitness payoffs. Those of the fitness is pay off. I need to pay attention to now. Now I'm throwing that fitness payoff description away. Non Looking fitness payoffs over here so it's it's a rapid rendering a fitness payoffs in real time. So here's one of the areas where I worry that the language that you're using the terminology you're using may actually give a false impression of what you're saying saying they were. Some of my notes came in. I don't know how how many of these notes you have taken her or we'll take but I worry that actually think I agree with you there but but there's something something about the way you're saying at that. I think gives a false impression of what you're saying so if you say you know the the race car isn't there. The Moon is an example. You give off an I I mean you you also will say which which I think is is more accurate and closer to what you're saying is something exists. Something is. Is there in reality that my perceptual captial systems are kind of turning into this. This site of moon and I think it's confusing to readers and listeners when you say it doesn't `existence as if the fundamental nature of reality behind whatever that moon is doesn't exist that there's that there's nothing there for point so it seems more accurate to say we simply don't understand the deeper reality behind the moon and behind apples and that this is something in in a way they like. It's less controversial. Something we can all admit given our our current understanding of the physics and so I the part of my my gripe there I think is just with the the language that you're using and there's something incredibly interesting about that that that something is there there's something I'm interacting with the example. I often like to use with you when we need is a tree. We we plant a tree and leave it it is. It is out of our conscious experience. They're all these processes that will be taking place in what we call them. How we view them has water and nutrients being sucked up from the earth and it will grow and we'll come back in a year and all of those processes would have taken place whatever they are at bottom we we may not understand understand but something is going on in the universe that we have our access to however far from the truth it is? There's something taking taking place there and so to explain it as when I leave. There's absolutely nothing there and there's no tree and then I come back in. Somehow I create create this. As if it's you know I think it's very important clarification. So I I I agree with you completely that I'm not saying that there isn't an objective. Reality that would exist even if I don't look at it. There is an objective. Reality is just at the Y.. What I see is utterly unlike that objective reality and and in the the metaphor that I was giving burchill reality I might see a red corvette the reality in that metaphor would be circuits and software? That aren't read. The don't have the shape of a corvette utterly unlike a corvette but but when interact with that objective reality that's there even if I don't see the corvette I then we'll see the corvette so that's how different think it's potentially attention confusing as an analogy. Only because as a user of video games you can try you can turn the video game off. It's not a self sufficient world world. It's not reality that that continues on and does does its thing. Reuther released it. Yeah it gives a slightly false impression. So Roy I agree that the reality is continuing continuing on regardless of what I have rights right in and and the reason have life insurance is because I agree with you that there is reality that will continue to go on. Even if I'm I'm I'm not here right right okay. So Lemme make that point with a slightly different topspin because those concessions seemed to bring bring us back to the standard consensus view of science in some ways. So there's this appearance reality distinction. There's our sensory experience. which is our interface? Ace which everyone agrees does not put us in direct contact with the thing in itself or underlying reality. But you're conceding that there is an underlying reality and there must be some lawful mapping between what we see on the interface end that underlying reality which actually renders our mutual perceptions of things like trees glasses and cars predictable where we can can both agree that if we go to look for the same object each one of us is likely to independently find it whatever. The relationship is between that interface data structure A.. And reality itself. So there's there has to be some kind of ice morphism between our virtual reality experience and reality itself even though so we don't have by virtue pollution all of the right conceptual tool so as to say what it is. There is going to be a mapping between objective reality and and our perceptions and that mapping will be as complicated or more complicated as mapping between all the circuits and software in a virtual chill reality machine and the actual like grand theft auto world that I that I perceive and if you think about it there's going to be hundreds of megabytes of software all these complicated circuits. All I'm seeing is is simple cars and so forth so there's going to be in computer science all these virtual machines that you create many many levels of virtual machines between what you see in in the grand theft auto game and the actual objective reality in this metaphor going on there and so I'm saying that that the idea. Yeah that that the reality is going to be more to space time is too simplistic right. Is it. There's going to be some agree that there's going to be some systematic. steamatic mapping is going to be quite complicated and so another way to put. Is this if I said to you. I want you to use the language of what you can see in your interface her face in the virtual reality so the pixels that you can see the colors and pixels. That's the only language you can use. I want you to tell me how this virtual world works. You can't do it. Because the language of pixels is an inadequate set of products to actually describe that world and I'm making the very strong claim that whatever object a reality is the language Regis Space and time and physical objects in space and time is simply the wrong language There is a systematic mapping. But but the language of objects in space and time I could not possibly frame. A true description of that objective rallied the strong claim. So it's similar to the J. B Here's holden. The famous physiologist gave us a an aphorism that almost contains this thesis insead form which is not only as reality stranger ranger than we suppose. It's stranger than we can suppose by giving a deflationary account of our notion of space and time you are saying whatever. Never this mapping is between appearance and reality we are so ill equipped to talk about it. Based on being this interface analogy that had it is on some level far stranger and far more foreign to the way in which. We're thinking about things than anyone. Anyone has a claim isn't actually so I'm just trying to get at what is truly novel about your claim one thing. That's novel is the the expectation that evolution has selected for some approximation. To what is true. Seems false right. So fitness is trump's truth and as a result. Whatever this mapping is to underline reality? It's we are afar greater state of ignorance about than most people expect that that's right. We should absolutely you nailed it on the head and I would say this that. It's the relationship between a visualization tool. And whatever it is that we're visualizing right so so there's going to be the subject of reality that's out there and we evolution just gave us very very dumbed down. Species specific visualization tool. The very language of that tool is probably I mean. The whole point of a visualization tool is is to hide the complexity of the objective reality. And just give you a dumbed down tool that you can use and so the very language of space space and time and objects is just the wrong language for whatever the thing that just like I would say though that you know as far as I understand most up to this point And now we're GonNa talk about consciousness and then we'll get into different but up up until this point everything that you've just said I think most physicists would agree with and is is part of the conversation in quantum mechanics right now and many. Physicists are are talking about this problem of space time and of space and time independently as well clearly not being the final answer to what is fundamental and and everything we see out of quantum mechanics gives us a a a real philosophical problem similar to the one you're describing being which is it seems that the fundamental nature of the universe with the Universe is actually made of it is not anything like what we experience set all the way to the point of space time the that's right and so it's really interesting because if you look at our biggest scientific civic theories in Physics General Titi in also special relativity are about space-time right space time is is assumed to be an objective reality and a fundamental and quantum field theory as well the fields are defined over space time and an so physics as a new Marconi. Jimenez has put it in. He's a professor at the Institute for study at Princeton. He's pointed not that for the last. Few centuries. Physics has been about what happens in space time but now they're realizing that to get generality and the standard model of physics to play well together they're going to have to let go space time. It cannot be fundamental. And he's not worried about it and he in fact he says most of his colleagues agree right that space time is doomed. And there's going to be something deeper and that's wonderful because we're about to learn something new. There's a deeper brainwork for us to be thinking about physics and Space Time. We'll have to be emergent from the deeper and deeper framework. Actually I watched a lecture of his recently. And I I wrote down this short quote. He says all these things are converging on some completely new formulation of standard physics where space time and quantum mechanics are not our inputs but our outputs and I thought that was that was very well set. But but that's so so as far as I understand where physics is at at this point. I think all of these physicists would would agree with you up until this point and I think now we can probably crossover one other. They might agree for a different reasons. Right they're not using absolutely but there's nothing intrinsic in what don is saying about how. How false our view of the fundamental nature of reality is that it is that that it that you can actually take all the way to space time and that? We're probably wrong wrong. And all of those assumptions about what we think. I agree and I think about this really interesting that the pillars of science are all saying the same thing. Evolution by natural selection is saying we need to let go space time and then the physicists trying to general relativity and quantum field theory to play wreck. They're saying you have to let go space time when our best us science is saying that that's it's time for an interesting revolution as can be fun. Be Very excited to see what what happens when we go behind. Space Time so counterintuitive. They'll right we. We've just assumed that our our our story is facetime. Came into existence. Thirteen point eight billion years ago at the Big Bang it was the fundamental reality. Were saying Zang. There's there's a deeper story. That story is only true up to a point. There's a much much deeper story. And that's more like an interface story That's the projection of a much deeper story. We're GONNA have to find and that is tremendously fun. Yeah well so a net. We're now gonNA move onto consciousness. which will be interesting? I just I guess I WANNA flag my lingering concern that your rationale if taken in I'm deadly ernest may still kick open the door to Piss them logical skepticism for me at least because I think you know if one space and time timer dispensed with causality and kind of an evolutionary rationale does this. This is kind of the planting. Go argument you referred to is. He's just once you start pulling hard at those threads. I'm not sure how much the the fabric of epistemology can be defended. So I agree with you Sam in in the following sense i. I think that that might actually go that way. Just on the evolutionary arguments alone So what I'm going to want to do is to whatever the deeper theory of reality that I propose it needs to be such that it will not fall into the epistemological problems that you're raising so the the deeper theory needs to avoid those epistemological problems and show why by that deeper theory looks like evolution by natural selection when we projected into our space time interface rather words so that these kinds of problems might arise is because evolution by natural selection itself is not the deepest theory is just an interface version of a deeper theory roof. Yes so on this this topic of causality in in time. And whether this project even make sense which I know is a place you and I have gotten to before in our conversations when you say things like the the brain and neurons are not the source of causal powers and that we need to find another source. My question is why would you assume that there are causal causal powers at all in the fundamental nature of reality. So it's not clear to me. It's not clear to me why we include causal powers as part of a fundamental fundamental reality. If Space Time doesn't exist to I don't quite see how there is causing without time at least in the way that we typically think about it and we just to take an example which is kind of standard physics although often neglected the notion of a block universe. Ride the notion that you know the future exists this just as much as the president as as the past and so that there really are no events. there's just a single datum which is the entire cosmos in connections so he's causality on under that control is really an illusion. That's right and and without endorsing the block universe spew I would say that causality in space and time is a fiction It's a useful fiction that we've evolved in our interface that but the strictly speaking causality in space and time is is not because space and time is not the fundamental reality. The appearance of cosmetology like my hand pushing this glass and moving. It gives the appearance that my my hand has causal powers in his causing the glass to move but but in fact fact. That's that's just useful fitness like if I drag an icon on my desktop to the trash can in delete the file it looks like the movement of the icon. I'm on the desktop to the trash can cause the file to be deleted. Well for the casual user. That's a perfectly harmless fiction to believe if you move the icon to the trash trashcans causes. The FELTON is perfectly harmless but for the user for the guy who actually wants to build a software interface for this go under the hood that fiction has to be let go so so. I'm claiming that that within space and time. All the appearance of Khazal is a fiction. Now in terms of the deeper theory. When you're asking a deeper through what about 'cause my my argument is that causality is parts of the illusion of time? Assuming time is some sort of allusion and time is is not fundamental at least as far as we usually talk. I mean I can think of. This is a conversation of how we can almost redefine causality. which in my review I have? I think there's a way to talk about different things being connected but in terms of the way we are definition of cazalet in how we use it is dependent on on time. It is a part of things that play out in time. You need something You need something to happen in the past to cause something to happen in the future it. It's this it it is this direct relationship in time and so I don't even know how you would talk about causality without time. It it it needs. It's time for its own definition so I think if we're redefining causality which I think is kosher. Actually I think that's something we can talk about. I'm not I've never been clear whether that is is what you mean. Are we kind of redefining. What causality is and is it? More like connections between things rather than one thing happens and and then another thing happens in response also added another aspect here which is the notion of possibility may a B spurious right so that it may in fact be that nothing is ever possible. There's only what is actual right. There's only what happens happens. And our sense that something else might have happened in any circumstance that just might be a again part of this newsroom interface that that has seemed useful because it is useful to try like when we were apparently making decisions between two possibilities and we need a model counterfactual counterfactual thinking gain is incredibly useful and yet what if it is simply the case as it as it would be in a block universe that there's just you know the novels already written. And you're on page age seventy-five but page one hundred and sixty eight exists already in some sense and I. I don't think you need the block universal because I think just one way. They've getting the yeah I mean. It's a good visualization at ending. Most physicists will have some argument about it being described that way but I think the the analogy holds and I was just reading Carlo Ravelli's book on on time and he. He makes this point as well that that at a certain level there is no difference prince between past and future and essentially. I mean his thesis in the book is that time is an illusion it is it is not something. I'm I'm so sorry I got so yeah. I think that that will need a notion of causality. That's outside of space time. That is not going to be dependent on time. It'll it'd be more like relationship as as you talked about. Okay and and in terms of the counter factuals possibilities I. I think we'll want to have a conversation. Nation about probability and how we interpret probabilities in in scientific theories whether they're mean so there are probabilities that that are epidemic mic in the sense that maybe there is a deterministic reality out there and I just don't know enough about it so so it so. The police are subjective. His mind my lack of knowledge there's frequency ency but the our sense of probability may be Spurious that's right but then if if there are probabilities in which no matter how much my knowledge increases the probability will not disappear and so we often call those in science objective. Chance and I think we'll have a conversation rotation of about how we think about probabilities and objective. Chance it will. It will actually take us into the question about free will and so forth my version of a versions of free will versus determinism. So so I think that that's going to be an interesting conversation. So so I I agree that we need a notion of causality that transcends ends time and I I'm proposing one but by the way it's interesting I know you. Yeah Glad Glad you talk with Judea Pearl. And he's got of course. He's directed a cyclic graphs chiefs models of of causal reasoning. which are brilliant? And they've actually given us a mathematical science for the first time of of causal reasoning. But when you you know in in his book Pearl doesn't define Kazadi. He refuses to to define the notion of cosmetology in some sense. What we're facing dissing here is that every scientific and this is this is really important idea? I think No scientific theory is a theory of everything. There's no such thing. Every every scientific theory makes certain assumptions. We call them. The the premises were the assumptions of the theory. And only if you grant the theory those assumptions can it go. Oh and explain everything else near. And and so we're going to have an every scientific theory certain primitives that are unexplained. They they they D- they are the miracles vis-a-vis that theory now. You may say I can get you a deeper theory for which those assumptions come out consequences but you will have a deeper set of assumptions. Options here is going to be an axiom somewhere. The bottom absolutely and that's that's a humbling recognition for scientists to realize that we will never have a theory of everything. I think we will always have a miracle Refu- miracles we want to keep them as few as possible. I don't like that you call the miracles. I would like to have the records show. I understand that we call them. Call them axioms or yeah. We'll because I I WANNA really my place where I think people might actually be confused about what you mean which is why I am sure. I'm glad to protect you for. I'll I'll just say that there are things that the theory cannot explain so and there will always always be things that every scientific theory cannot explain an. It's a principal problem so the interesting thing will be in a deeper theory. Will we have something that we. That's like a causal notion that will be primitive of the theory that may not be dependent. On time it'll be there will be primitives in an explanation will stop I guess so. My question in my issue really is why use the word causality when you're speaking and more fundamental terms so why not say something like connections relationships to me so much more much closer analogy is and so to say what we view as causality is in fact something more like a connection action or a relationship on board level. I agree with you completely. I think deeper theory. We may think that the the term Khazal is just not a very useful term anymore. It was useful. He was useful in space and time in connection or influences a better term level okay so onto consciousness and free will and other obtain joyous topics. What in your view is the connection between consciousness? If you'd like to continue. Can you listening to this podcast. You'll need to subscribe at Sam Parents Dot Org. You'll get access to all full length episodes of the podcast and two other subscriber only content including including bonus episodes and Ama's in the conversations. 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284: Emotional Wellness: Miles Adcox on Prioritizing Emotional Wellness, Mental Health and Margin - BTTDL284

Beyond the To Do List

46:20 min | 1 year ago

284: Emotional Wellness: Miles Adcox on Prioritizing Emotional Wellness, Mental Health and Margin - BTTDL284

"Yeah hello and welcome back to another episode of beyond the to do list. I'm your host eric fisher. This is the show where i talked to the people behind the productivity this week. I'm excited to share with you a conversation i had with miles adcocks miles speaker and and a coach and also one of the co hosts of the unspoken podcast but most importantly he is the owner and c._e._o. Of on site which is an internationally unknown emotional wellness center which delivers life-changing personal growth workshops leadership retreats and emotional treatment so as you can guess in this conversation we're going to talk about emotional wellness and and this shouldn't be a surprising topic because honestly one of the things that can lock you up and and can self sabotage not only acting on decisions but the entire decision-making process is lack of emotional wellness and before we get into the conversation. I do want to give you a highlight quote from miles in the conversation. He says that he doesn't think counseling for people who are broken or struggling. He says i think counseling is for anybody who wants to be a better version of themselves and in fact that's what this show is about. It's why we go beyond around the to do list. It's about productivity but it's about so much more than just productivity. The show could easily have been called productivity plus or productivity and dot dot dot something. I don't know but i like my title better anyway. I hope you do too but i was glad to have this conversation with miles. It's a healthy conversation about not just thinking about emotional wellness. Listen the sense that we only go to the doctor when we're truly truly sick but having a proactive stance on that which i know you'll find ties into many of the themes that we've talked about in this show with previous guests so i'll get out of the way and say enjoy this conversation with miles at cox well this week. It is my privilege privilege to welcome to the show miles adcocks miles. Welcome to the show glad to be here. Thanks for having me. I have previously actually had <hes> donald miller her on the show twice once <hes> kind of talking about all the past stuff that he had done up until the point of <hes> you know talking about story brand and things like that but also so on a separate occasion he came and talked about his newer book but this was a few years ago now <hes> scary close which deals a lot with <hes> <hes> you know being open and honest and just opening yourself up and you know. I'm not doing it justice but you had a little bit to do with that. I think yeah it's amazing. How how many people have sought out you know what my company onsite <hes> to get. <hes> support <hes> based on a scary close dawn's. He's just he's one of our closest friends but he's a master storyteller as you know and it's so neat that he's pivoted and turned his natural ability is donate ability i would say into how to teach people to tell a better story with their businesses and i recently got to do a keynote for a lot of the guides at work underneath the story brand framework man. He's he's changing lives right and left with the power story and no better with don miller. He's just one of the bessie. I'm lucky to call him my friend but also grateful that he shared his story about his emotional healing journey that onsite do scary close. I recommend the book all the time so so. I thought i figured i would <hes> you know that's one of those kind of maybe hidden gem episodes that i've done again years ago. This was what twenty fourteen fifteen somewhere back there. You know years years ago now. I'll link up to that in the show notes for people to dive deeper onto that but <hes> that brings up that you are the c._e._o. Of onsite and so for donald i mean i know donald to a certain extent probably not not nearly as well as you do but have been to at least the old house and was there with the story brand group as he was just starting that up for you to have done that work with him and for that book to have brought a lot more people's attention to onsite. I'd love off to get into what's on sites mission. And how did you get involved with that sure yet. Our mission is to cheat is simply to change lives through enhanced emotional health and we do that because we believe there's just a deficit of it out there in in culture specifically right now and you can you could trim that down no even just saying people feeling disconnected overwhelmed in a little burned out and now that can manifest in a lot of mental health issues but if you just take it into it's something if a human is it some everybody struggles with which is dealing with an overt amount of stress in today's climate we just see so much of it and there there are good resources however they're not many resources that have tried to position themselves to move towards culture a lot of people including us that have been in the mental health space. We kinda sit back and put together. Hopefully sophisticated clinical modalities that help people change their lives and we're here when you need us in other words call if you're in trouble trouble and i started thinking a few years ago. We got that all wrong. We don't need to wait on people to come to us. We need to go to people so we started shifting. Our messaging and trying to humanize is the idea of struggling take to culture instead of waiting on culture to come to us the way we way we do that is we have a retreat center west of nashville about forty five minutes and were on a couple hundred acres of beautiful <hes> property and people come from anywhere from four to six days <hes> to do kind kind of a deep dive on their their narrative in rewrite parts of their stories. It may not be working for you could call it kind of emotional health retreat center a personal growth retreat center enter and we we definitely use a sophisticated <hes> you know mental health experience and we have top notch therapists from around the world that come and facilitate but at the end of the day we really try to make it suggested something anybody could benefit from in not just when something's on fire and your life so that's that's kind of a little bit about onside and i guess i think you also ask how i got into it and that's a longer story the shirt their short version than you can tell me if you wanna know more is it wasn't by accident. It was through the lens of my own experience areance. I was someone who in my early twenties. <hes> everything look wonderful on the surface in exterior. I had a good resume a good career and on paper deeper. Things were couldn't have been better yet internally. I had this longing for something different that i had ignored long enough and shutdown my capacity for emotion that i i wasn't even literate in that space and now is just navigating live <hes> assuming i could be disconnected for what was underneath the surface in a caught up with me and it caught up with me and it looked like depression and anxiety and stress and burnout and some of the things i talked about earlier and i didn't know what to do with that because i thought as a guy in our culture the last thing he can do is ever speak out about it but thank goodness. I did when i did. The right people came around me. At the right time. I got support kind of the lights came on and and i just fell in love with the change process shifted greer's at that time and got into the helping profession and that led me to today a leading a great organization like onsite it. It sounds like your journey was kind of an example of why there needed to be you realize there needed to be a shift there. I couldn't help but think of when you were talking about. Well we're here and when you have an emergency. Go ahead and call us and that being the calm in a way people treat just regular. You know bodily healthcare here. It's like <hes>. I don't you know unless i have like a sinus infection or like. I've got this pain. That's been ongoing. I'm not going to go see the doctor right yeah same. I think we and we even neglect mental and emotional health more than we do on the physical side and everybody including me is a capable of of neglecting acting both but yeah we we just do that too much culture and it's primarily because it's got such a stigma attached and that's another been another part of our mission is not just to enhance emotional health in and people and leaders. It's also to reduce stigma around the idea of of perfection in in this unsustainable model that we see through almost ameri emory lens of advertising that tells us we should be more than we actually you're capable of being and it's just set up for failure and so i love when we had the opportunity ready to undo that for people and give them a realistic vantage point on how to live a good life. I love that the words you're using that. You're involving it with culture that you're taking it to culture. You're that you're this move towards culture and commonality or i should say just that in other words there's there should be a new status quo that we should be able to talk about these things things and deal with these things much sooner much much more early than them becoming actually symptoms of a bigger problem and they flare up right right yeah you sit you said it well. I don't think prevention should be a a warning sign. I think it should be a conversation. I think the way we we <hes> alleviate a lot of motion pain which manifest in all kinds of physical problems in the world today is we simply bring it into the forefront and talk about it more and that's what seems to be missing by the time people get to it and it's not that we don't work with people when they're going through crisis or adversity we do that as well but usually when those kind of people get a to us. It's just a a deficit of an effective and empathetic place to offload stress and therefore in it's we think of it as well. These people must really have problems in their history. They must really have difficult and and yeah. We know one in three typically do however. It's not what you would think. There's a lot of really functioning people that have never had a healthy <music> outlet to be vulnerable and communicate truth not just the pretty truth but the hard edges that up catching up with us later on so. I think you're exactly right we just need this needs needs to be a prevalent part of the conversation everyday life the way the technology and culture have moved forward <hes> intertwined in such a. I'll go ahead and say it dangerous way that would that it's so commonplace that are moments are now filled with activity. You know are quiet moments that we used to you have to maybe even have our thoughts and think them versus just swat them away <hes> and maybe even <hes> you know become earlier aware are of <hes> not issues but just even being in a moment and being ourselves right that in other words the margin we had is now kind of gone yeah and for some reason no nothing. I think it was well intended. I don't think any of us at any era <hes> had set out to do harm but it we just we are gonna make mistakes. Every generation i think is going to make mistakes and we hope that the one behind his pays attention in his awake enough to try to do something about it shifted make it a bit better. Take what's good in trying to innovate innovate where things need to be improved not think you're speaking into one of them. I think years ago we looked things like daydreaming as a problem <hes> and now we know it to be of vital element especially for the creative process but just for our emotional health is that we need margin to be able to turn our brains off and we don't create enough of it because it's not a cultural searle norm and for you know your your expertise around productivity <hes> be in upshur. You've talked to guests that are highly productive. That would probably probably echo. Some of this or may be having a smarter way than i am. I'm coming through the mental health or emotional health lens but i think it's the same thing is that in order to be productive. I believe we have to create arjun and we have to have space in our lives to have some sense of balance because i know i'm a product of my own work in i can get on the hamster wheel just like any other leader whose is very busy and i even even armed with the tools to know what to do and sometimes information alone doesn't create sustained change. We have to really we dig in and figure out what is anchored internally that keeps us stuck in an old narrative in an old message and that's been a tough one for me. I tend to move towards four gaullism all as a more than i'm proud up so i have to stay on top of that. I have to be honest with it. I have to have accountability around it because i know my best work happens when i've got margin in when i've got the ability ability to slow down and do a lot with a little bit of time yeah that margin to create and even giving our brains <hes> you know that downtime the person that made me the most aware of it in recent years has been michael hyatt <hes> where he's been so intentional about taking <hes> weekends and even the evenings off and not just saying i'm going to do something intentional but actually planning out a weekend and i thought to myself oh who plans out a weekend but he's so intentional about an especially his naps daily almost daily naps and we can naps and <hes> just the recharging that that that goes on there and it's not about filling up every moment but it's about having that downtime <hes> and that that is an antidote to the constant push to be not successful in in the way that people see it which is being constantly busy but successful in all matters of our lives which is you know heart and mind body body and soul even yeah i think you said it well and i and i couldn't agree more a sales like i'm not as close to michael as you are but a no women no his work and yeah he's he's the king in in this area in terms of productivity. He's he says such a standard with being intentional about how to carve out just what you said. I couldn't say it better and sounds like i could spend more time where they wanted to know about. The now base at sounds attractive. This episode is brought to you in part by blink. I love blinking because i am an avid podcast listener but i also love to read and so reading and listening is actually what blinking brings you but i'm busy. You're busy. You feel like there's a lot of podcast and a lot of books out there. You wanna read or listen to and sometimes you just feel like you don't have the time to sit down but that's why i recommend using blinking kissed like i do blinking works great for me because they take the best takeaways from a book that need to know information you know they strip away the filler and they do this for tousands of nonfiction books that condense it down into readable and listenable easy to digest fifteen minutes so that you can finish a book that that fast blink is basically made for people like me people like you this way you can finish a book during your commute or your lunch break or like i do during exercise i i will be on the treadmill using bleakest blinking then helps me discern which of those books i may want to pick up the full copy of a tip for you and blinking is also so great because it's got a ton of the books from people that have been on the show people that are talking about productivity and getting the most out of life like for example johnny cuffs finish james clears atomic habits the twelve week year paul jarvis company of one and many more even david allen's getting things is done who's going to be back on the show in a few weeks by the way so right now for a limited time blinking has a special offer for you. Go over to blink est dot com slash beyond to start your free seven-day trial. That's blinking b. l. i. n. k. i s. t. bleakest dot com slash beyond to start your free free seven-day trial again blinking. I dot com slash beyond so with your work in on site with people i mean how have you seen some of this. Let's just call it. Lack of downtime or you know uber connectivity with technology analogy. I mean how have you worked with people <hes> with some of the symptoms that come from that and you know do you have any like quick wins kind of things. He's like. Hey think about this or if you feel like you're struggling with this. Here's something else you can try yeah. I you know to me. It's more changing the perspective than the a habit in the perspective overtime. I think shifts the habit so i don't think i'm out as a goal to try to shift people hundred eighty degrees and stop something onto dime. I'd rather shift them two degrees that over time it spreads out almost they've if people who spent time on the water and know about sailing you know to if you get off two degrees on course on the water. You're gonna totally different direction once you're down the path a little bit and i think we need to be changed. The same way so i would look at it like busy is not really the problem. It's our relationship with busy and i think we often far too often where it is a status symbol and it's the very first thing we respond to about ninety percent of the question of how you doing. I'm really busy in that split that means something but as you said there's more to the story there than just being busy in so we as as it relates to technology. I think you put that in there too. About how do you handle the onslaught of information constantly being put in front of us through social avenues news and tv and film and everywhere else and i would say that i would caution overconsumption until i wouldn't consume a lot of output until we learned to edit the input if that makes sense so when when we are taking on a whole lot of information in we've never done the work internally to understand what parts of it fit and what parts of it don't then will end up taking on false narratives that will make us make decisions based on the algorithm the formula of the people who are masterminding the information and meaning particularly the news cycle there. There is a lot of strategy that go p._r. Strategy goes into behavior change. They want the hin consumer to stay connected as long as they can and therefore they put these. I say manipulative but in in a way that's what we're trying to do is get into your subconscious. They're using our information <hes> to try to increase ratings so we just have to be a little as smart as they they are. I don't think they're doing anything wrong. I'll say i worked in the advertising community to i- advertisement product so we're not doing anything wrong. We have to be wise about our internal input. What are we taking in in. What is the message that is telling us about us. And how do we make sure it stays on course with who were trying to become yeah i. I'm glad you brought up. The news and i'm glad you brought up. <hes> you know this this consuming of the constant flow of information because that's that's actually something that i wasn't even thinking think about in terms of the technology but that definitely fits right in with <hes> the constant use that we were talking about and of course you know with the news cycle and and and the way that i'm i'll just go ahead and say it like social media has played into you know the constant news cycle. It used to be the constant. There didn't used to be a constant news cycle so then there was and it was on t._v. But then it took to the screens <hes> that we use to do our work and then it moved to the screens that were always with us in our pocket hit so it's it's been an interesting flow <hes> and you're making me think of are you familiar at all with cal newport and his digital minimalism book that came out <hes> early this year no but i'll check it out and sounds it. That's exactly kind of where you're going with that and i mean he has this incredible book again. It's cal newport digital minimalism and he was on the show and we talked about this and it was you know and he goes into a briefly but i mean the way that these social media networks and even some of the operating operating systems are designed is to keep you on those systems longer. It's eyeballs. It's attention so and of course you know apple has done. I don't know if an item not an android person so i don't know so if anybody's listening and they're like android has this too but like i love that the screen time features i came to apple because that has helped me to be able to do <hes> you know have have more of a a watchdog i on how much time i'm spending on my screens even when i'm not fully aware of it and even my my my wife and my two kids i can kinda monitor without monitoring and i'm glad that they're bringing more nuance to that coming in the <hes> <hes> i._r._s. Updates coming later this year so yeah i think the this the these these newer generations <hes> millennials and and even the newest are a bit more socially conscious than mine and the wants to follow in and i think that even though there were part of innovating and creating this technology they're i think they're going to be faster than we were at a <hes> doing proper research to find out ways it is creating negative impact and then creating solutions to counter that and i guess i would compare it to like like nicotine smoking or tanning beds. I don't know that the stuff of our generation that we just you didn't know and even when you did know you started getting surgeon general's warning but the surgeon general's warning didn't necessarily immediately slowdown use it wasn't until we had a mounting <hes> body of evidence and data of how it's killing you that people people finally started to slow down decrease and now we see that with vaping it's starting to get back up there again and even with all this information so again information alone doesn't necessarily change it but i agree some steps in the right direction. Particularly on technology are the screen time but you know to. I use it as well and it's just as easy. It's two clicks to approve all day particularly on instagram so it doesn't it's you can within. I think under five seconds take that that warning signs to say you're spending too much time in bypass it if you really and stress which fat do too much <hes> but i do think it's a good start and i think more is going to be revealed. Just how much the onslaught of information nation technology is overwhelming us in what that's doing to our brains source this episodes also brought to you by the university of california irvine's division vision of continuing education. U._c._i.'s continuing education can help you gain an edge in your career or help you make that career transition that you've been wanting to do for a while or honestly even if you're just interested in becoming more knowledgeable. They can help you with that to whatever your motivation is. U._c._i.'s there to provide you with the flexibility to to stay on top of your game. Wherever you're at now or level you up to the next place you're wanting to get to they've got courses and certifications in a wide range of categories from business to leadership your ship human resources tack engineering and over sixty convenient certificates and specialized study programs on campus and online there one hundred percent percent online courses offer convenience and flexibility and it gives you an immersive online classroom experience as you collaborate with your peers and their flexibility about having open enrollment means you don't have an application to complete you just log in and you can sign up and you can pay for a single course or enroll in an entire certificate program program. It's your choice. You've got full control over your academic plan so that you can advance your career in as little as six months. The fall quarter is coming up and registration. Gration is now open. You can visit c dot u._c._i. Dot e._d._u. Slash beyond and enter promo code beyond for fifteen percent off one course that's c. E. dot u._c._i. Dot e._d._u. Slash beyond and enter promo code beyond to get fifteen percent off one course this offer is valid valid until december thirty first twenty nineteen at eleven fifty nine pm when it comes to the constant stream of information nation and i'm thinking you know not just technology but the the news media or media in general i mean could just be constant net flicks <hes> what are some of the ways that you've seen are helpful in terms of <hes> you know gaining better awareness or again. You know you talked about it earlier. It's it's it's perspective shift. It's not about changing the habits at least outright but changing the perspective. I what are some ways that we can go about doing that. I don't think change. It really starts to happen until we can. It least match the pace of the problem in so technology in this case and we know it's not all a problem. There's a lot of good that is doing to but we'll say were the problematic parts if we're consuming that eighty five percent of the day we're spending five percent of the day or say ninety five percent of day. We're spending five percent of the day talking about how it could be problematic to us than that. You see how the the scales are way off. Aw i think we have to be talking about fifty percent of the time. Consuming at victor predicted the tom the only way it gets into our subconscious changes if we spend more time on it now good news is as you pull up put on the news cycle in today show has a segment pretty frequently about the danger of social media and that is causing anxiety depression and suicidal a._d._a. Shen particularly particularly argue so we are seeing more of it but i think we need more of it in our homes in our relationships in our workplaces. It needs to be a constant conversation. Which is the only way i think it'll get important enough in our brains to actually change it. I think one of the other potential changes here is is to turn away and i mean we're painting inning. Were painting. A picture. Here of technology is bad and it's definitely not all bad and in some ways it's actually depending upon the technology perhaps <hes> it's neutral but you know in technology can you. I mean you and i are connecting through technology right now. We're having a great conversation and then in post as people are listening listening to this they're benefiting from listening to the conversation and they're also using technology to listen to it so we have to keep that in mind as we're as we're going about you know talking about technology and all that and i know i've used technology my whole life thinking been an avid with it and you know i used to play too many games. I still probably do but <hes> <hes> you know but i think one of the things that we can then switch to is this idea of analog of having face to to face or even using technology to have connection with humans to have in other words healthy relationships accountability community even that having interaction with people and not just the information or the tasks at hand. That's a path towards better mental and emotional health yet again. I think it's whatever supports us in making it. A priority which is one of the reasons is why. I've always been drawn to what we call an intensive model when it comes to change because traditional. I don't think counseling is for people who are broken are or struggling. I think counseling is for anybody who wants to be a better version of themselves and so i and you can call a counseling. Call it coaching coaching a little bit safer and more trendy way for the business sector to embrace it. It doesn't matter to me as long as you're looking at yourself in what needs to change and improve constantly. We constantly do in kind of a self evaluation. Some some systems have built in but most don't but i think when when we when we do that we have the opportunity we have the opportunity to constantly create new conversation and and it's hard to do in a fifty minute session. Which is the traditional counseling session. That's why i liked four days of detox. You technology untethered time in in because ultimately what it's doing negative side of his it numbs emotion and emotion to us as human beings is like oxygen but we don't treat it that way and when we we don't have it <hes> accessibility to it or we numb certain emotions they ended up manifesting into something a little more dangerous and causing stress and physical symptoms and that's the biggest obstacle. I've seen with technology and the reason i like a four day or a week long workshop or something where people just jump into it is that we we ended up giving them. What culture does it is. You don't hear a lot of people talking about how they feel in everyday life but when you come somewhere for a week and that's you literally spent ninety percent tom everyday doing that and at the end of it. It's a priority you realize the value in you wanna do something about it and i think that's where we gotta get around balancing technology as well yeah i love this idea of you know almost in a sense of having that retreat that detox retreat where you're getting away and doing the hard work i wonder then what are some of the ways that if somebody has done that or even if they can't do that right away they can start to interact in a community setting and have some of the benefits of that start to take place in their life. I'm a big proponent of that counseling. Personal growth emotional health change should not be reserved for the counseling office. I think we we have to in so in other words. I'm basically saying yes. I've got a good business and a good program. That offers a service on just one of a a lot but i don't think people need to stop or start there. I think we need to build this into our communities. In sometimes community can be hard if you're in stress and struggle because the last thing you want to do is reach out to someone else. I also try to find your way into community particularly. If personality wise you're wired differently now a lot of people that that <hes> aren't prone to social circumstances mm stances or they're a little bit lean towards introversion than than it might not be as likely to move in to proactively move into community particularly when their stress that's why i think we just need need to change the way community function and community can be one person in one person and if you got one safe person that you can take a risk and empathize and tell them a little bit of your story. That's the start of community in. It's a really good one so don't wait because there's so many people that couldn't afford a service like ours or that. Don't have the time to go to counseling or or whatever we also might be suggesting as a means to improve their life. You can do that in your own living room in your own backyard. You can even do it on social media. If you find the right people find people speaker truth to it's vitally important some people out there. They're they're hearing us talk about this and they're thinking yeah. I don't know if i have anybody in my life that fits that description corruption of i can speak my truth to them. What kind of attributes would you say to somebody that you know they're they're seeking out this this kind of micro community if you will call it that <hes> to be able to you know have coffee with somebody but they don't know who to turn to or who might already be in their life like what kind of <hes> <hes> what kind of attributes or what kind of tips can you give them in terms of who to look around and see like you're the questions you need to ask yourself about who might already be in your life that can help you with that well. I i would validate them in saying that. If you have that thought of. I don't have anybody to speak much through that. I trust you're probably right <hes> in and i don't mean that <hes> to to discourage you. I mean that to validate you because your instincts are good that most people <music> are not wired to be able to empathize in hold your struggle without trying to advise you on how to fix it. Which is the exact opposite of what you want. When you tell somebody somebody your truth most people it's counterintuitive until you had the opportunity to do the work yourself and then you suddenly now some people nationally wired to it but when you have the opportunity to do your work yourself then that changes something internally your your ability to empathizes goes your need to fix goes down and suddenly you become a safe outlet for somebody so oh i would. I say you're probably right. There may not be many people around you. That aren't going to try to advisor. Pull you out of something. That may not be what you want right away but there are people out out there. I would say that in the in the way to start. This process is with you. Community i believe is an insight starts is an inside job and then moves into an external validation so what i mean internally if i'm looking for a friend that i don't have now than i need to learn to be that ran before attract that and so i need to write that you can journal that you can write it down. You can figure out what are the things that i'm looking for. What is it. I'm scared to say the more comfortable you get with your own voice. The more likely you'll give grace to the people who are going to receive a perfectly that's great yeah. I hadn't even thought about that. I have some friends <hes> for a while. There was a season where i didn't have or it seemed to me that all my friends were moving away <hes> and that was something that was hard to to deal with and that actually i radically for me was also that season where technology was ramping up in my life <hes> because it was being adopted as an you know in culture itself but also because i was seeking out something anything that would kinda you know as you were talking about earlier. Maybe numbing. The emotions are quieting them. <hes> because i had stuff to do there was there was expectations. External <hes> expectations dictation on me to be a certain way or do certain things <hes> you know during the day job <hes> you know and it didn't matter you had to just get through it. It can get done but i think that's the kind of thing that you know. I don't want anybody here to <hes> sit here in struggle you know in their cubicle or at home or feel like they're by themselves. I know it's it's kinda hard to i. It's definitely for me kinda hard to hear you say <hes> yeah there. May maybe an probably there. Isn't anybody ready to talk to you but you can start by talking to yourself yeah and i wanna ano- hopefully that's not the the the the part of that narrative the talk that they'll pull the nets while i was careful with how train but i just wanted to validate that it can feel that way. It absolutely can feel that way and i think we're too quick to prescribe. You're not alone when if somebody feels alone we first need to start with. I understand what it's like to fill alone and i am not everybody can understand relate to that that i can. It seems like <hes> i you didn't say those words but you just you were kind enough to relate to a tom in your life. That was a little more challenging and i think that's what we need. More of you just became a little no safer from etling into and i think others when we are vulnerable with our truth then we invite other people into that space and likely the people next to us are looking for that as much as as we are. They may not know it yet but people are out there but your first instincts of saying. I'm not sure they are. That's okay. It's okay to believe that entrusted and then to do something about it. I think far too long. We've tried to prove people wrong. When you're influx when you're in when you're in kind of this pre contemplative out of state about what should i do or what should i do and we begin to get advice that tells us where either right or wrong then. We were not likely to be invited into change. What we need is to be able to be held in ambiguity so that we're more likely to be taking the next step. Yeah i agree. I think that <hes> this this idea of again going back to earlier. What we're talking about. Is i think then somebody who feels like they're alone owned. We'll try to avoid that that resting that downtime that that <hes> that idle time where those voices inside aside themselves that remind them that they are alone or at least remind them of that feeling that they are alone because they in actuality may not be but <hes> the that time is something they'll actually avoid that that healing time is something that they would avoid in other words. Yeah i think we just gotta gotta hear people's perception even if it's not real and to challenge the perception. It's okay to do that as long as we can. They can trust that we can understand inherit. I mean the the the reality is that we're not alone and in in it's okay to hear that but not to the cost of challenging your perception how real it is for you her. She the need to understand how real that is before. I can invite you into the idea that it's not true so it's not it's not about proving people wrong it's about. I guess i'd say it's bob. Bob golf. I think is where this belongs in another dear friend of mine but he says don't hold people accountable. Hold him close now. I think that's a crucial apart in the beginning of this process is we kinda. Wanna put our unintentionally. Put a finger out and be the accountability. Please try to tell people what they should and shouldn't be doing when they're in pain in the tree is they're probably looking for more of an embrace than advice man. That's that's true. I really hope that as people are over overhearing us talk about this that this is some what a new normalizing the status quo could be changed that that there's not some you know pre <hes> determined okay well. I guess i can never talk about these things or <hes> or even saying normal people. Don't talk about these things right. I i agree. It's it's becoming thankfully. It's trending mental health in general and it's not just in in our space. It's not just in <hes> <hes> the face space for the business sector political sector. It's trending everywhere which is good news but we still have a long way to go. I think we're years away away from getting reconnecting grounded as a community and as a culture but there are pockets and were on the way which is exciting but it's it's becoming not so cool. Oh distaste <unk> struggling depressed medicated as it might have been thirty years ago or even twenty years ago. It's becoming way more hip and cool now to pursue your own emotional emotional health and to talk about it which is a really good thing yeah. I wholeheartedly agree. I'm glad to be able to talk to you about this but i think that one more thing we we could do is maybe point people to anywhere that they could continue <hes> either the conversation digging into maybe some resources <hes> would you mind maybe sharing <hes> a little bit about where somebody could turn to for that if you have resources either financial or in your insurance and i would suggests if you've never done professional counseling. I'm a big advocate of it and i'm not advising it on a. I don't think you needed. I just think you deserve it. I think it's been branded ended all wrong for so long. I think it's always been positioned as this is where you go when you're really screwed up and it's not what's wrong with you that you would seek out counseling. It's what's right with you so so just know that in counselors i can't give you all the names of the ones in your community and backyard but just know they're in the smallest towns are a little harder to find if you're in a tiny community but hopefully here within a drive of being able to find some good therapeutic resources. I'll also say that that profession is human and that <hes> not all counseling is is the same no different than churches of the same not all businesses. Just be careful that you don't take one risk and you get mismatched or you get frustrated frustrated and you just decide is not for me. Sometimes it can take several times to find the right professional support but i think everybody again deserves that so i think that's one option options. Reach out if you've ever done accounting session something out in by anybody to do regardless if you think you need it or if you're just wanting to grow as a leader or be more productive in your in your case <hes> i think coaching another good way to go if there is more going on if you got more adversity going on in your life and you you you really feel sidelined or struggling to get out of bed or dealing with some difficult things and we know probably some of the listeners are then there are residential resources that <hes> <hes> deal with bigger issues and i'll say the same thing about them. I'll frame them up and it's i don't look at somebody go into rehab as a punishment that life has gotten so bad that they've got to go somewhere to time i look at it like this is just human school in for whatever reason you've been invited into going to become a better bergey yourself and be more humane to yourself and other people and that's the biggest gift you'll ever get. Never i never saw it that way. When i went in my early twenties thought light is ending as i know put that i have to go somewhere and try to deal with my issues and when i came out the other salvado how in the world we not have a culture that the whole world doesn't get an opportunity go somewhere for thirty days to be a better human being so look at you if you if you got big challenges right now. I hope you'll you'll start to see them as this will eventually be a gift. Let's get won't feel like it right now but it will be in. There are resources out there that can support support you in whatever area of your life that you're trying to deal with. That's awesome. Also i would love for you you to maybe outline what are some of the options that people could seek out in terms of what you guys do at onsite yeah so we <hes> we have have a variety of short term intensive workshops that you can either do individually as a couple as family. Most of our programs are individual so oh i i'm not sure the numbers probably somewhere between eight and ten different offerings that we will <hes> interchange throughout the year but pretty much every week fifty weeks out of the year here we get workshops beginning and ending in people coming in from all over the world so you can you can check out our website to see what offerings we have. The one l. point out and there's multiple is the leading centred program which is kind of our flagship <hes> <hes> weeklong workshop. It's something that we're kinda. Known toward that a lot of people one dawn talked about scary close sweat. A lot of people uses for and it's it's really good. It's kind of a catchall for anything in your life. It might be going on the horn improve on sean if you're going through change transition really difficult times or you just want to raise your e. Q. is kind of a theater where everybody because it's kind of a catch all of all of our work then we've got more specific ethic programs like healing trauma and different things that we also have also got a longer term residential operationally offering that's kind of emotional health treatment for people that have more q. you <hes> issues or struggles and that one's more like thirty days plus but those are those are some of ours and again i i know ours are not obtainable for everyone and just know that i think sometimes people here the right invitation and they think that's for me but but yet there's this limitation in i'm. I'm happy to serve you any way we can. If we're the ri- but we're not the only fit you need to hear that that there are good good resources everywhere and we're happy to help you find him by the way they are. Programs not fit. We've got a team of experts that you could call us if you live in somewhere way far away. I don't know what's in your area. Call us and we we can help you navigate that and create a roadmap for you. That's very generous and i am really glad to hear that miles. It's been awesome talking with you today today. I really hope that again people listening in on this conversation we're brought to a greater sense of awareness of the acceptability except ability <hes> like you were saying. It's becoming more acceptable to talk about this but we got a long way to go. I hope that we moved the needle a little bit today so great talking with you. Thank you and i appreciate. You know it's a little bit probably out of the new. I don't know that but <hes> make up that it's a little out of the norm for a podcast talking about productivity in leadership business the things that you guys expert experts on to bring this into it but i really affirm that you do because i think it's vital to all those processes out become ten times onto more productive than more. My e has gone up and are reconciled parts of my story that just don't make sense anymore and so. I think it's relevant. It's a bit of a risk because we just don't do it enough so i would say thank you for having me on. I appreciate it well. That's another episode crossed off your podcast listening to do less. I hope you enjoyed this conversation that i had with miles adcocks. Thanks again miles for speaking with me about this very important subject. I hope that you were able to get something out of this conversation and didn't just hear uh-huh you know you should go to counselling because that was totally not the point. It really was more about the fact that counseling has its benefits. It's great. I've done it. I actually am intending to do it again very soon but it's not because of having specific issues. That is a very good reason to do so. It's all all about being proactive. It's about being aware which again that is one of the things that we've talked about. Continually in past episodes of this show is self. Awareness is going to to lead you to greater understanding of yourself and then enable you to continue to become your best person n._b. Truly productive so with that said if you know of somebody who after listening to this conversation you know would be interested in learning more or thinking about this topic and what we talked about in this conversation. I'd love love for you to share this with them. I'm not saying blasted on social media or share it out publicly but i am saying if you know of some person that one person would be great for you to share this with so think of that person and share it with them and i've got a bunch of great episodes coming up so if you're not subscribed subscribe with that i will say see you next episode assode <music>.

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166. Build Foolproof Triggers Into Your Productivity System

Love Your Work

14:23 min | 1 year ago

166. Build Foolproof Triggers Into Your Productivity System

"The. This is love your work on this show. We help you make it as a creative entrepreneur, find your unique voice. Find the right mindset to succeed and be the first to capitalize on new opportunities to make a living making your art. I'm David caveat. If you want to join us here on love your work every Thursday, just hit subscribe on your podcast app. That will deliver episodes. Right. Your device and to get your free credit productivity toolkit. Sign up at caddy dot net slash tools to follow a productivity system, you need to be able to trust that system you need to be able to trust. If you put something into the system, it will get taken care of at the right time and the right place. But the flip side is that the more complex you make a system the harder it becomes to follow and to maintain. And this is where building what's called triggers becomes invaluable in tweaking a system that works for you. Now, you've heard that word triggers a lot in the media lately. This is essentially the. Same meaning trigger is simply stimulus that elicits a response, and you can use triggers to actually simplify your productivity system triggers. Keep your productivity system running smoothly. They keep your system from getting bogged down with complexities such that you aren't able to maintain that system. So in this week's article, I'm gonna tell you exactly how to find the right triggers for you to use those triggers to be effortlessly productive. And I'd like to say thank you to those of you who are sharing love, your work and the heart to start on social media. I thought I would experiment with this. I'm sure I'm gonna miss a ton of people, but on Instagram we have Elena deadly shared episode with Amarillo Elena said this was great listening hat caddy interviewing hammer Ray. And then we had vastly Cherchi who shared the heart to start Fassi says you should buy this book the hardest. Start written by Kathy amazing book. Really motivational. It's going to change my mind. Awesome. And we also have Anthony Catania creates who says my readings for the first part of twenty nineteen books by Paul Sar at cavity. And hashtag Stephen press 'field and Anthony shows up pile of books and says it's going to be a creative and productive year. Awesome. Thank you, all of you. And also, thank you to calm Chanda for his YouTube review of the heart to start conga made a video he said that the heart start, quote, put me in a position where I was forced to take action on the things that I've said I o David cabbie a lot for actually letting me read this book. I think he's referring to the fact that he actually won the book and giveaway that Iran, several months back com goes on to say I wish I could buy a copy for anyone who wants to start something. So thank you again conga and also Julian power recently released a YouTube documentary called the rise of medigene as a creative city Julian if you'll remember is a pain. Supporter and was even a sponsor for a month ago checkout his documentary it actually begins with the little interview of me, the rise of medigene as a creative city on YouTube. And thank you also to Matthew Varghese for sharing his notes on the productivity cycles episode, which he seemed like quite a bit Matthew took some notes and shared them as a screen shot on Twitter. So folks could get the gist of it quickly. Also, thank you to career Shalom of for sharing the hardest star in his post over on the hacker noon blog at hacker, noon dot com. I know that I didn't get everyone just experimenting with this. We'll see how it goes. If you have shared love, your work or the heart to start on social media. Thank you so much for telling your, friends, and your followers. Your support really means a lot you are helping me keep doing this work. I'm really honored to have the university of California Irvine's division of continuing education. Sponsoring the show. They have a ton of certificate programs in specialized studies programs available. You can do it. On your own time. Advance your career in his little six months. Spring quarters coming up registration is open Bizet, CE dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast and enter the promo code podcast for fifteen percent off. One course, can you believe it at university is providing discount that C E dot UCI dot EDU slash podcast and enter the word podcast or fifteen percent off. One course this offers valid through March thirty first so do it right away. Okay. Here is the article. Build foolproof triggers for a bulletproof productivity system. The purpose of productivity system such as getting things done is to increase productivity while reducing cognitive load moment to moment yet for productivity system to work. It also has to be manageable. If it takes a lot of cognitive load to interact with the productivity system, whether that's capturing inputs prioritizing in quits, or deciding what to do you're going to stop following the system. This is why triggers are so important to a reliable productivity system triggers, reduce maintenance and clutter and allow you to trust the system c can be in a moment. A trigger is a stimulus that triggers in action. For example, alarm goes off on your phone when it's time to take a medication provided you keep your phone near you. You can be confident you won't forget it also reduces clutter. Imagine having take medication on your to do list along with everything else that would be a mess. The trigger allows the relevant stimulus to be kept in its own place. The ideal trigger has four traits. It's reliable. It's context Pacific. It's easy to implement. It is attached to the action one it's reliable. If you can't count on this trigger happening when you need it. You can't be in the moment to it is context specific the trigger should remind you at the time and place and even mental state when you can take the desired action. No sooner no later, it's easy to implement setting or following the trigger has to be easy to do or you won't be able to sustain using netra Ghur, and it has to be attached the action when the trigger happens. You don't have to do much to retrieve the action that needs to take place. I had a great trigger. When I was a kid. I leave my backpack by the door each night packed with anything I needed for school the next day as I walked past my backpack on my way out the door. That was my trigger to grab my backpack. This trigger was rely. Able and context specific because I had to walk out the door in order to go to school the trigger was easy to implement. I had to put my backpack somewhere it might as well have been by the door. The trigger was attached to the action because the backpack itself was the source of the trigger while these are the ideal characteristics of a trigger. It's rarely possible nor practical for every trigger to have all these characteristics to a full extent in building foolproof triggers for yourself. You have to balance ease of implementation with other church Ristic's as well. As the likelihood that you need to deliberately construct a trigger at all. Here are some characteristics. You have to balance to build foolproof triggers. There is mental load versus complexity and there is distraction risk mental load versus complexity even my backpack trigger had some mental load. I had to see the backpack recognized at I was in fact on my way to school and grabbed a backpack to take it with me. It would still be possible. For me to forget my backpack ESP. Actually, if I was distracted. I could have reduced the mental load of the trigger by blocking the door with my backpack. But what about other people who had to use the door? I also could have Setina l'armee that went off right before it was time to go to school. There was no iphone then in if I had set alarm for every little thing, I probably would have been shipped off to a mental institution at some point a small amount of mental load is good enough. Especially when other solutions are impractical. You have to balance the mental load required to follow a trigger with the level of complexity required to make it foolproof distraction risk. My iphone is the source of many of my triggers these days, but I try to avoid using my iphone as the source of triggers whenever possible the reason is distraction risk distraction risk is the extent to which the tool you use as a trigger source exposes you to getting off task. I find that if I have to interact with my phone in order to respond to a trigger such as a notification or an alarm, I increased the. Chances that I'll get sucked into another distraction such as Twitter or Facebook for this reason if I had to use an alarm to wake up I use my ipad. Instead, I've set up everything on my ipad. So that I don't receive notifications or social messages, so the distraction risk of my ipad is very low. There is ear oh chance that I'll waste the first hour of my day scrolling through Facebook, by the way, I would like to find a simple bracelet with vibration function and primitive LCD display, though. It's possible by brand patterns could be enough complexity if I could get triggers through such a bracelet. There would be no distraction risk to those triggers at all. There are a variety of techniques you can use to compensate for the mental load required to follow a trigger. There's habit stacking, and there's the trigger cascade first of all habits. Tacking I learned in my J Fahd podcast conversation on how to build good habits. That habits themselves can be triggers when you use a habit to trigger another habit. You are habit. Stacking for example, it was difficult to build a foolproof trigger for remembering to bring my lunch to school. I couldn't just put the lunch in my backpack than before it would spoil if I wanted to hang a sign on my backpack. Well, then I'd have to remember to hang the sign by the time. I saw my sign it'd be too late to make lunch. I still rarely forgot to bring lunch because as a now realize I was habit stacking after breakfast, I brush my teeth after brush my teeth. I made my lunch after I made my lunch. I put it in my backpack. I used things I was going to do anyway such as eating breakfast as triggers for doing things, I might forget such as brushing my teeth. I mean, hey, I was eleven and making my lunch. Next up is the trigger cascade triggers help reduce clutter within your productivity system. You can keep information relevant to actions in various places in manageable chunks. You can do this. Because of the trigger cascade. The trigger. Cascade is the arrangement of triggers in your system. Mm one trigger leads to another trigger each trigger along the way presents you with relevant information. For example, my to do list may have an action in it. And I may have a trigger to check that to do this periodically that action may trigger metoo access note in Evernote that has further relevant information on the action such as a checklist procedure that I can follow. There's no point in having the checklist on my to do list. The to list item is enough to trigger me to look at the checklist. One trigger cascades into another. I personally have internal triggers based upon the time of day. Even the time of week. For example, first thing in the morning is my writing time that trigger cascades into meet checking any notes, I might have on things I want to write about to build a foolproof trigger. Ask yourself these questions. What is the action I want to take when and where do I need to take that action if I could implement anything I wanted. What would make one hundred percent? Sure. I wouldn't forget the action. Now, given the constraints of the context when and where what's a practical trigger I can use. And is there relevant information? I need in order to perform the action. How can I sign that information? So that I'm only presented with it. As a result of the trigger building foolproof triggers takes time and experimentation, but it is worth it with foolproof triggers as a part of your productivity system. You can operate fluidly throughout your day and focus your mind on what lies in front of you. Is love your work, helping you find your unique creative voice. 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