20 Episode results for "US"

Introducing: Unlocking Us

Unlocking Us with Brene Brown

02:03 min | 9 months ago

Introducing: Unlocking Us

"Hi Everyone I'm Brian Brown. Welcome to the unlocking US podcast. Twelve years ago I bought it used microphone. Hooked it up to my laptop and recorded a podcast on empathy and shame. It was very diy for my kitchen table. But I fell in love with podcasting it was intimate raw and most importantly it gave me away to connect directly with you. Well here it is a dozen years later and I'm coming back with unlocking us. I've given a lot of thought to how I want to spend this next decade. And one thing I know for sure is that I want to have more meaningful conversations conversations. That help us unlock the deeply. Human part of who we are together. We can explore ideas stories. Experiences Research Books Films Music Anything. Anything that reflects the universal experiences of being human from the bravest moments to the most brokenhearted. Some episodes of the new podcast. We'll be conversations with the people who are teaching me challenging me confusing me and maybe even taking me off a little bit some days. I'll just talk directly to you you about what I'm learning and how it's changing the way I think in show up. We'll also have a way for you to send me questions for asked me anything episodes and at some point. I'm going to hit the road and do some live shows too. I'm officially launching the PODCAST. In March at South by South West those those episodes will be available. The Week of March sixteenth then episodes of unlocking us will drop every Wednesday. You can find me wherever you normally listen to your podcasts. Here's the thing and I wanna live love parent and lead with more courage and more heart and that requires conversations that help us learn learn grow and challenge what we think we know about ourselves about each other and about this world you can subscribe. Now invite your friends and I really cannot wait to have these conversations with you.

Brian Brown US South West Twelve years
The Two of Us SHORTS with Will Reid

The Two Of Us

27:27 min | 5 months ago

The Two of Us SHORTS with Will Reid

"You rebels radio presents. The two of US shorts with Naomi Watterson Alber Frederick High. This is naming lettuce. Welcome to the US Charts Myself Alba freshdirect talking to people across the globe about that pandemic clearance on its relationship to creativity. Mental health emotional wellbeing and as always. I'd like to get a trigger warning. These adult shows the themes will be complex and interesting. And maybe at sometimes be triggering. If you're over ten the disposition today put this on pause and put market for later. Saw otherwise dime right. I will thanks so much for coming on the too short. It's great to have you. You are an autism live in London and just for anyone listening. I'd recommend you if you can go online. The wills now while we're talking you can see that he does. His websites will dash rate R E D Dot Com. Is that right? Yeah Instagram J. So I just wanted to talk to you just a bit about how you doing in the lockdown. How are you today? Yeah it's mixed you get different waves of different so the ups and downs pushes joyful all-wise unites it's hard to keep I'm still keeping myself like. Keep making withdrawing my sleep. 'cause I'm not going to my studio which is some. I'm Michael Spicer my room size kind of a during this exploring onto seeing what comes out so what you during much. Therefore it how like. How was your crisis changed? Yeah I've always wearing during his On the pins my my apprentice I'm the client into the painting. Sometimes food Idea quickly owed quite fresh mock Orange Curative. And then I'd take the paintings. Statues paintings also explored out and allow the paintings that fervor as well so maybe leave behind completely but the recent play so more recently. So I've been more like exploring so a my older works more decided one case appropriate. Pretty good idea yet always interesting. So of like recording experiences including my Sova states will psychological Made my life and how am almost like a journal in a sense. How did I know trying to get that through? The work can solve explore that in the work of Christ SAS as of like platform to see where the some else's there. Because you always surprising. Stop making work. How one thing leads to another h decision will reveal something about yourself about something in king which did didn't really realize till you've done it. I'm sorry I saw less of the sort of things I'm interested in an joins US old naturally to the figuring away so So pull traits. All human figuring whole Abstract expressive quality. And I'd say that's won't be but then I still I could pri losing the plot Recently so these phones are taking more on so landscape paint said equality in Seoul. Vodka trees in a focus on trees is a full as a figure just to express express emotions in a wider form rather than getting bogged down with Hugh informed. And Are you still using that as your kind of main simple in your work the moment yeah so of I've always been so playful. Cartoony souls approach to it sometimes and the Miceli I find myself awake during a full figure in expressing some Acquaint the recent would seem client. I'm very onset. vary so abject in a sense is is sense of place where I am. It's like not really we don't really have show what's going on where where we're going this sunset Asked what a wack is. I'm pretty that's why I've read generally and I know that your on the artist pledged on instagram. Is that what that you're sharing there as well? This'll von surveys. Or is that what you wanted to keep impersonal and you'll guidance to move forward with in some way. Yeah so that was Sets but on this on instagram and stay a while ago just before the coronavirus look down happened forgot his name. Matthew Barney's I think I think I think that's the right name might have to check. That just doesn't matter. I'm he located them special year. It's a lot of retaining So piece set up of you few weeks back in. It's just like everyone's been getting buffy bars yet. I'm getting a boat to. I'm sorry I've been each plant woops to Japan age and then once he's pounds and sales you didn't play your spine always works. That's the general concept of it. I'm just the white ticipal Ossis during these uncertain times when it's hot for t make sales. Oh if you encourage that. So context edition so am. I have so. I saw social life for a moment. Follow which is good. You could just mention the handbook. That one say can quite well things go. Thanks National M Yes seems to be committee. International thing is destroying you. Just put the Hashtag out of school. Pledge on on your image in southern fraternity pounds or less in tightly buys I'm I'm a bit of a cop. Had around previously ideas I storm previous lays allow more so trite wax and a smaller works as well and During Channel Yeah. I'm the big lead. I don't also some what we worth more than and you come. You become paraffin for that price. I guess but yes. Germany ODA works. I'm happy to go because when you make work it's not always just about. This is what she wanted to get rid of. You don't make it sell straightaway. You WanNa solve civilized wax and say wait. I tell you to the next week's yet. Thank you so just to kind of get on their way you are what your life is amendment outside of your home more in your what was it like. You're in eastern right. Yes I'm basing. Dostam dose. Just Dostum's London. Yeah Yeah it's it's Was like it's a it's quite it's quite around But there's a sense of you know everyone's so to get in and the community so there's a sense of community around and you see feel you don't compete you know and it's almost like it feels like walking around on Christmas Day. Yeah usually at Christmas. I'm in London so I know cleaness of of that feed by haven't been in hastening sue me icon like London by guessing a good analogy Christmas Day as I like walking around at two in the morning. But it's it's daylight night drunk people around everyone's smiling each other trying to get out of the way scatter people will look at radio will lay blase about it. I went. I think I would vote by cried to exercise yesterday. I forgot free like the main central that just the city what it was. It's quite likely this there was doing their exercise. It's like a guy's time with oxygen straight. Just these places so busy. Nobody else wanted my sister. She's gone for a cycle today as well and she said that's really nice. Dislike around on them because there aren't any cards around Ray. Yeah you say he isolates knucklehead. Obviously because I think I going to say so gang out that's really important getting out to get It's it's so it's hard but the hardest thing is you're you're in the same place a Lotta time. And I. I don't Mind My put my flats coordinates. No it's quite small. I live tonight some. We haven't got a living room kitchen and inspire united is what to. Gal Get US inspiration for seeing. I'm always inspired all that stuff. You know discoverable cancel things around may call. It is in the sky or trees in the way they show you say corroborate so trying to still take those and channel it into work. So it's inspiring you know at the moment then what's outside and is that different to what was inspired me before so always always inspire me stuff. There's less some things that high school which will have less office the civil of human actions. You'd have maybe some situations you'd find yourself in and say base. Things are more lacking way rather than you'll direct connection with something. It's more like looking at yourself Responding to the landscape guess provident dirty. Were people that makes sense by only started attending special for everything you know films. Music books can still denies which is good. So it hasn't really changed a lot. I think about it. I guess I guess because it gets his are quite good We spend it on solution anyway. Anyway you got a very good very good being aren who good earned company. So He's kind of light. Snow huge the Just the whole the biggest thing on. Thanks to hold. I know renying way where we're GONNA be in next month's ready so Keep plugging away. Ready made KANAWHA can don't commencing basements. Have you noticed that you want to connect in different ways? You know with some people that you didn't before as a result on the up down just talking about connecting with others. Because I find that passed me. I'm more tuned into the meaningful connections in life and kind of thinking about them and reach out to people about a main on reached out to before I was conscious. That still going to be like that for everyone. It may just be nice. Almost half the peace realize no Cristeta being conducted meet people I think The thing is before this even night where I find myself before. It happened at him at made a choice to solve. Frankly small change the jokes and changed whereas working so focus on. Komo them even more time to that hundred find a way to the guy. Shame away through by London while folks out and then sorry they still uncertain period and then I was like I needed to workout things in my own head him. I was going to get away from London myself so I was going to go off Spain and do this This is a community trial and Santiago del Costanza pilgrimage and so reflect on things and meet people on the way. And so so Jenny. I should really be here in my original. I find myself these plans that made another study displays landed in is kind of weird from it. I can kind of like So I think I'm so more grappling with that obey in. I am but you want to help and there is this so essentially what you WANNA do more. They WANNA help them. Everyone you want to help the community. You want to help the people I am. I'm still trying to think of ways I could do that. Maybe at the moment might might vote Dixon. Voltaire wickel and helping people I that myself. That may be the stuff I could do my off. I'm not ready ratio without a young show. Their stuff you can do your own his Mental Health Challenge every week quite a set Which do together over the price about office instagram. All at this time this kind of is very very heating. Very therapy Something that people who they may not usually talking to a will. I am reading very powerful. I guess you just Kinda go feel your way through what you what you can or can't gifts and how you can be something there if you space for it and they'll be something fee today. Yeah George just during is already. I think people if people realize how how could fall sick so I wouldn't rule. He's a really easy way to be playful. Bring your child self back and I think that the difficulty even with myself with making is letting go and just trusting US alphand enjoying the process because in a critic is always can always be. That consortium Away from is really is really powerful. I think it's really I think that's the that's always puts people doing it. I guess this over them so consciousness about it worries a walk a google. Judging by. That's the thing is quite to me. during painting they they reflect like bigger things actually by the way we exists from day to day lines and is up this warrior by what they were saying about doing stuff. You kind of you kind of do that when you're making a very that's always why felt important connection so it was the same thing. He may not existing through what you'll making light you just so you crazy so you create the same so you plan to send criteria to making it all work than you to just just living life in the same way and you guy for these ideas some of these worries as you makes it work unite. You'RE GONNA be client courageous as well. You know you need to get the things that you're gonNa ruin am ruined the work and don't worry about. We'll find Giron. Your Voice Inside. This is who I am rather them be lights campaign a pint misery really well skillfully. Because that's impressive about united bound funding. Second date will move connects with people. Say just going off that. Then what is what was your process been like I mean we're even the pressure will lack. That will at this moment in time that you feed him pressure to make what are you. What was that off you right now? If you're not wet no pressure on myself. I'm you can. I think you need to eat there. When it feels Ryan needs to force yourself to a bear was always in ECON. Just wait for inspiration to happen. You have to kind of find. Did he have to engage in during? Its like I should be. You should be doing a set amount every day Fulsomely so esoteric that we need to look after ourselves a bit. I'm just tight the time to reflect and think about things they so they still quiet women find ourselves in. You know it's important to solve that pressuring Salford. That's what I'm doing anyway But it was funny ways to make up. But am I enjoying? But in I I can't say icon congregate Full because oil paint nominee and a larger scale. And if it weren't Kim my group doesn't reading my space mightier doesn't doesn't work that will that's awesome shift Smooth and talking about looking off yourself. Are you looking after yourself? How are you looking off Joseph? How'd you wish maybe you think I'm looking out for myself? And what's helping you right now. Kind of keeping you to keep you going. Cutters mentally emotionally autistic. Levian Cathal. Yeah so over a chain so An exercise getting out and doing stuff and make just still trying to live your life and contract. We've paid when the way you can. So that's why I guess I online Khoza good with my friends. We do that. Vana GAM and catching up forever ways doing things maybe ended before which gives us time reading books and stuff. 'cause that's important to of pull Important Mental Health Dot Com. So from that place where he's Com- do come come theory wristwatch were may so you just go find things to do? Maybe I guess instead of going to a ball to me up with people you have seen coal and just a few years. They're on the same coal. Yeah that's still wave kind of connected do things in in a quiet away serving at I found myself having. I like having no time to that. Yeah Yeah rushing around trying to I. I'm always thinking I should be getting gang some going somewhere sooner. Largent ten o'clock in the morning and you know if something else comes up. Spend 'cause you know one thing and it might take longer you in the game against one o'clock Slough now go to the studio and stuff and then you you rush out so. This sense of urgency is gone. It's like oh well. At the days days days to me it is does likes some so continue? Continue Transitional Summit in a ratio. You so you know what we call things days because we know that's what they should be cold but they don't really feel like they used to be. Every time has definitely changed the Times walked. And everyone's kind of making sense of this new normal and I think your first and foremost if you look at yourself in. That's that's the priority radio and then you can be there for others as a win but yeah it sounds like you do really well. I think maybe I can finding a what. Is there anything that you're looking forward to? It could be during lockdown. It could be optimal don. It could be whenever I really I I. I'm I'm going to thing looking forward to. This rejection restrictions restriction down being replaced and having that because he suddenly like because. I think I guess what was happening in. London is is a busy. You Frenetic really is quite stressful. When away at you so love aided spend time running around am at an is always people around and you? Kinda just when I wanted to get a peace and quiet? That's what was so place the recreation and you just need more time to work with these things. I mean you suddenly get held a so quietness. Wait why knowing the way we wanted to happen. And I feel like I've ago says afraid they'll go out and do these things I was able to do before and I think that's the strangest thing and I think that's having freedom Looking forward to so realizing that things you actually so hard before actually commit sin stuff. I miss you miss. Let's go out and do a thing and that freedom just do things and once employed for tonight one in and I'm able to make the most of these opportunities our writer because I feel is less the opportunities available less now and maybe don't realize how much was going on in that city in the city now take for granted in our Happens in the future we can so of them appreciate that someone announce that but I think eventually goes said was trying to say I had that. You're looking forward to appreciate London in a new way. All right. Well thank you very much for being on the two of us. Scholtz will the full we got. Where can people find you if they want to save him with? All black will get in touch like he finally. I'm on my website. You say M Well Hyphen read already. Reality don't come. I'm going to keep up quite regularly by scratch. My handles might repented. Remember any of these These houses by should know the back of my head back in my head mangoes and heads. Fine phrases I think it's the top of my head of trying to say yeah Will also my instagram. So you can get a free my website. But he said we'll with one school read eighty nine so I am i. I definitely respond. If you sent me an email any questions when a thing will work by means Ganz touch you know. Play all right. Well they will and Very much Hi thank you so much. Listen to the show the wonderful music you can have as by Gavin Brian. If you like this show please subscribe. There's plenty of episode. Listen to passing good neal's stable on my love

Times London US Michael Spicer Seoul Matthew Barney Japan ticipal Ossis Naomi Watterson Alber Frederick High onset. Giron google Hugh writer Scholtz Dostum Ray Germany
106: They Call Us USPS

They Call Us Bruce

55:42 min | 3 weeks ago

106: They Call Us USPS

"Low. Welcome. To another edition of call us, Bruce unfiltered conversation about what's happening in Asia America. I'm Phil You and Jeff Yang and this week on the podcast we have been thinking and talking about doing something for a while and our wishes are finally coming true as if delivered to us. Our. I'm sorry we've come. A Dad jokes attention but we we've been talking a lot about the postal service, not just amongst ourselves but in society right I mean the relevance of the US mail to our society internal democracy has been more prominent now more than the headlines now than ever before, and one of the things that we recognized is that the postal service actually plays a really critical role even. Specifically in our communities and there are. There are a lot of Asian Americans who work at the Post Office The post office connects us are far-flung relatives and friends, and in general we just thought it was time to give a little shine to this institution that. Is taking a few bumps, these days, and so we actually found. A postal. Service employees who was. Happy to talk to us about this profession and about the stories and. The world behind the scenes at the post. Office. As, well, as other things going on his life as well. So we love to welcome to they call us Bruce Kevin Again UN. He is a musician and multimedia. A graphic designer, a fan of A. Pretty Amazing Music. I can tell social platforms and also a employee of the PS Kevin Welcome to the show. Hi. Welcome guys. Ola. So Kevin you're in Oakland right. Yeah. I wouldn't opened. And did you reborn in scripture? I was actually born in southern California and. Always, knew that I would end up in the bay area. So sometime around two thousand and two, thousand five moved up here. And I found myself. Here. To sort of blend in. Oh Yeah Oh. Yeah. And and you say you're from southern California originally like a like Los Angeles or or. Montebello okay. And now A. End, up actually working for the postal service. Honestly. I was laid off in rather time the pandemic. was. Gaining momentum. and. I was desperately looking for work and I I had heard this echoing my head, my mom's voice. You know like you should go work work at the post office like your uncles grandfather. Finally listen to the voice. And Sure Enough I. went onto the USPS site. And, saw their openings locally and swint for and they ask for references. Internal references and. Plugged in some family members names, and I was pretty much and within twenty four hours. In the family. It's a family business. It really is. Yeah. How many of your other family members worked for the postal service that are alive to? But. But it's it's been like kind of multigenerational thing or it has absolutely. Is there. Is there something about the post office or the Postal Service that has been? particularly. Peeling I'm guessing in some ways it's because it's eighth always there be. It. You know like they're always jobs in the postal. I. I just Kinda remember Hollywood shuffle under if you've seen that movie Robert Townsend movie. where? Kind of what you're saying is one of the themes in the movie that. His family's like A. Get A job. The Postal Service it's it's you know it's it's a secure job. You know it's comfortable. It's something which you can rely on and Robert Townsend characters like I wanna be a star in Hollywood but you know as a black actor in Hollywood. You gotta deal with a whole lot of bullshit and movies about the bullshit and. Kind of like you know no spoilers or yes boilers. Movement. You haven't seen it. You should see it but. In the end in the end, actually the post service ends up being a where he lands and and you know he's it's sort of like a celebration affected like you can still do when you dream of but other things can also be part of that dream and anyway I'm kind of curious if if that's kind of the story of how how like your uncles and other folks in working for the post office to. For my grandfather. I believe he went in right after he was discharged from the military e- so he. He had served in the Cold War came back They relocated to Daly City from Dallas. and. I think he that's it hired pretty much on the spot. And it's still the case to this day So he he was there until I moved up here. And two, hundred five. I remember him getting village. One Am and coming home. And afternoon. He. Yeah it's interesting my Uncle Sam deal with him in Minneapolis. He got out of the Air Force and became a carrier pretty much immediately. And my uncle Kennedy in. Hawaii. I think he started in Minneapolis, but then transferred to Hawaii, which is apparently. The most requested transfer. Why And he's been a mechanic for. Sixty years. He's he's been there for a long time I. Think he's been here the longest. Everyone fixing like postal trucks, postal trucks, the machinery he's he's really handy guy i. mean he used to build birdhouses? Similar skills I guess. Can you give us an idea of what you do. Yeah so On a daily. Day, starts at three Am. I opened the building. I FOR THE FIRST WAVE OF FOLKS WHO WANNA check their po boxes before the Sun comes up the those people exist. And I start receiving the parcel which comes through our massive warehouses through one of Richmond and one in Oakland West Oakland. And it just it begins. There's a law of. Shuffling and scanning and just making sure things are going. To the correct neighborhoods. How much that that shuffling scanning is done by humans? As, opposed to like machines, robots or whatever. Yeah Here's the thing it's. It's humans still have a huge role in this. It's kind of like, okay you have human error. That plays a role in it. But. I think in the at the end of the day I by myself kind of like the fact. That these things are coming off a truck there being. Scanned by human. So if I if I checked my my tracking I, know heathen scanned it. But at the same time for goes missing your somebody didn't scan it. What the hell. But Truth be told. Their companies like Amazon who are. They're fully embracing tech. And I you know we have some Amazon employees. We can go into that later but They. They're like, yeah we're like three thirty years ahead of you guys. And I'm like what and the they'll explain the system I'm like okay. But Plaid there. It's it's analog. Whole. The whole process was analog still. How many how many packages do end up having to deal with on a given day? Is Like Hundreds or thousands or thousands. Since the pandemic. It's Based on. What I'm being Told by the old timers everyday is like Christmas. But you know I went in at as the pandemic was was gaining steam and. So I'm used to this volume. The volume is incredible. It's I can't believe it So I don't even know what the holidays are going to be like. Can just say I. So I I send a lot of stuff on a regular basis t shirts t shirts like a lot. and. So I'm always. So I've started to deal with packages being track, which you know hear from people like Hey I ordered it the tracking went out but I. It's Kinda stopped this one. So I find that the tracking is such A. You know the invention of bailed tracking is cool in that you can. You know you can follow the progress of this? Of this package or your mail or whatever. But. It's also aggravated that like you know it's it's so elusive in that these points at which they can. You know you see they made it here to here but like. Sometimes it's like, what where is it here where what's going on? Why is this partaking so long? and. So aggravating that you have you can you can follow it but you can't. Really. Like. You know what I mean you your imagination goes. Yeah, it's just like why is it still at the post office here adopted off like you know fifteen days ago is it stuck being a file cabinet so like that's so That is when somebody doesn't scan it. Also. Called out on it. Somebody isn't doing the job they're supposed to. They're supposed to be a destination scam. You can request it if you don't think they'll do it. Just. Tell them. You WanNa see them except the package. But then from point. A to point B there. It gets kind of blurry because people are supposed to scan it. there are a lot of other factors. There's so many variables as to why it will not be dated, but I'm there to either buy stuff to in. It's happened to me within the last actually last week. Something go the way back to its destination and then back. Why did it go back? That doesn't quite make sense. Good question. Good question. Yeah I've seen package do that too were I've sent it to to like to to Great Britain and it's like. You know it took like a month and then like a because, and then a part of it was like for two weeks it. It was like stuck in New York. It went to London and then back to New York stuck there and then like. So that's that's the crazy thing about tracking you can. You can watch this, but it's completely aggravating that. Cycle, what good is the technology if I have to do this wild goose chase virtually exactly I know. Can I ask so Here's a here's a hidden in fact about me Jeff you'll be. My Dad for a brief stint was a mail carrier. Yeah. No, it wasn't like it. I don't think the GIG lasted. So long long enough for him to call at any kind of career it was, but I do remember when I was a kid? he was a mail carrier for a little bit and then. I was really young and but I remember his mailbag. Number. I'm reading the mail back in his car and. There was a a can of like. Like a can of Mace or something like for dogs like dogs like. And I was I was playing I was like I was playing the car and I was looking through the bag and what is this and accidentally sprayed some of it on my arm or something and then. It'd be like. Like you know it was. It hurt a lot but I have a very vivid Marian that. But Yeah, my dad was a mail carrier for. Short stint in the eighties. That is amazing. Yeah, I mean. Amazing in part because you know I it just it's I. Guess it shocks me little that their stuff that I still. AM learning after these years. I look. Here's what I would say like it kind of it. Is Relevant to our discussion here in that. My. Parents are immigrants you know and they immigrated in the seventies and they but a lot of the things I've told you about my life about my my background, it's like all this stuff. There were my head like so many jobs you know along the way because it's part of that immigrant hustle, right like I remember when I was surprised when I told you about my parents own a video store, you know they've in and then my parents own that store and also multiple businesses after that all the while by my mom was a registered nurse for like you know like forty years. So it's multiple hustles. It's very like kind of making your way and You know in whatever job you fit in. You know the Postal Service was part of my dad's journey united mean as an immigrant as Geno trying to find trying to find work and you know the. The Postal Service employees, employees like a lot of immigrants you know I I'll ask about your your office Kevin, but I will say like I live in a particularly The area I live in his is heavily Asian, but and so the local post office that I frequent. Every single person behind the counter is a person of color I've never seen A. Single white person like working there and they're primarily like from what I can tell and from what I can hear when they hear them speak the primarily Korean Filipino. and. Latina and black but like. But the Asians are mostly are korean-filipino and so I always look at that I owe marvel at this post office because it's like you know the the US is such A. I don't know it's one of our American institutions, but like it's held up by. By immigrants. And like so many American institutions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and and and so I always I always really like going to the post office because it feels like There's there's a real great sense of it reflects our community here. So I wanted to ask like Kevin your and your office at your your location I mean like you. I'm imagining given where you are. There's a lot of Asians who work there, right? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. It's the most diverse place. I've ever worked in in my almost forty years it's. It's crazy. And everything that that you just said is absolutely true. I mean you will hear five different languages as the morning's ramping up while everybody's getting ready to deploy. It's amazing. I don't know what it is but. It's beautiful at at the same time. It's. It's the it's a side that people don't see. Think about I. Think they know that carrier I think if more people can see this they they'd be pretty blown away by the diversity. Of, the post office I'm curious to know what what it is. That attracts many immigrants and office is very diverse. So, what does it link actually? When you`re When you're there I mean, do people get a chance to talk interact or is it like just hustle all day or you know in and out? What when everybody trickles in the other there's there's conversation joking it's like any other workplace and Come nine o'clock when everybody's ready to go, it's just focus and. People are. Gone. And this is. Where I'm. Just sorting through things. On over just side and. You know wrapping up my day. Yachts. It's like any other workplace it's just. Very, very Serious in terms of. Of what what we're handling. That you know I mean this must be probably besides dogs. Angry dogs the number one thing that postal employees hate most but. Of course there's that that terrible saying going postal right referencing. Male employees who can't take it anymore and you know go wild and. I wonder about the degree of stress that is involved in in working in a a setting where it's like just never stops right and where. People. Are always angry if things go wrong but very rarely happy and Salvatori nice to you if things are going right it's like it's something we take for granted all the time. In the mail keeps on. Common Right. So I'm just of curious like A. Especially during this time of pandemic where it's Christmas every day and that's not a happy thing for you guys per se right it means you're you're you're working your butts off with just Inexplicable loads at this point. I mean. Are. Things things pretty cooler or things you know is it is it is. Is it like super stressful particularly right now, I would say it's pretty stressful on a daily basis just because of the volume of of parcel coming in. It doesn't seem like there's an end. I. Guess at the same time you know I think as as everybody knows or most people know that the post office has always been in trouble financially because it's a it's it's a it's not for profit. So the parcel that's coming in is literally saving. But I think as as. Somebody who's there on the front lines it's hard to see that right. It's like, okay well, this pain us. Literally. Bad stamps when people have po boxes. When people? May Letters. I mean, that's that's our paychecks. So it's it's a bitter sweet thing you know. At the same time, it's like you mentioned the poster for Postal Services. If you know it's it's not there to make a profit in fact, actually it's running a loss and. Because it's a vital service, right? I mean. I, it's hard for me and even imagine what it would have been like is certainly before the era of. Digital Communications. To. Not have had the postal service. It's an even today it's it's such a vital life flood I mean you mentioned Amazon and or even just shipping in general right now they're people who are stuck at home for whom Without postal delivery. In rural areas where a ECOMMERCE doesn't necessarily delivered directly. They would die I mean there will be without. Food there'd be without you know drugs and. Insulin and who knows what else like they're just like there's so many things you can't live without that are delivered. By the mail. And I don't know that most people think about that. Image even Amazon packages are also deliver postal service employees. They cracked. Amazon won't deliver to a lot of rural areas, but USPS will. And Are you wearing a mask at work like in the air of Covy? Like what are are there like? Do you know if there's heightened? Safety restrictions and things like that. Yeah absolutely. We have to wear masks gloves not mandatory but due to the nature of Covid. I choose to wear rubber gloves because I'm handling. Parcel, that's who knows where it's been. I just WANNA I wanNA. Make sure I'm safe that my family say. Other people are safe everybody house. It's mandatory. Absolutely. Are there I mean, do you have any? Ah? Do. You have any kind of interesting stories to share about what what it's like to work. In that setting particularly like maybe things that people try to send in the mail. Expect. You know this this person keeps mailing boxes of live cockroaches. So he'll box I don't know. I. Yeah. It's. It's. It's completely bizarre I. Don't know if they Maybe. Off. Provide. Insects for reptile farm or something but. Nobody picks them up I just I get them to this Po box and I always set them on the same place in the shelf, and then they just disappear. Going on Some people, ship live insects, people, people ship. Chicks which is. Why live birds? I just heard about that by the way because like there were some stories about chicks being basically delayed because. Of. Some of the issues with the volume of mail and mail delivery stuff and they was literally lake. One of those I was yesterday old. Things when I learned that people mailed living animals through the US postal. Service, like living chicks. Hen Chicks. That's okay. It's okay to terms a really strict. They basically have to be there. It's an overnight and they have to be there at seven am to pick them up. But what do you do with them if no one picks them. With we call them. We call them at seven am and we make sure. Nobody has not picked them out are just be cruel. I'm sure there'd be some animal rights people after them. They would they would find out somehow. Picks up its Berkeley I work in. Berkeley just that's wild but it's also like amazing. It's kind of amazing. I. Don't know what extent that you can comment on this but since we have actual representative from the or an actual employee of the US Postal Service at that we give shot but from your perspective, how much are we at risk of? Not. Having a fair election based on circumstances having right now and You know. Basically, the state of the world a lot of people are GonNa have to vote by mail. I mean, we do our jobs and as long as as long as you know, the voters do their part. We're going to do our part. I'm speaking for myself, but I'm not going I would not ever not let that happen right? It's insane. I can't see what will happen. Have you seen anything that would lead you believe like being obstructed from from the happening at least at this point not where I'm at I don't think they would let that happen in Berkeley. Maybe. Middle. America. Just just saying I don't. Yeah I made. What I do know is some of these machines, the sorting machines that were I mean. This is not news new news, but the Saudi machines that were being removed they're being replaced with newer machines but I guess some of these locations have not gone the newer machines, which is a little suspect. At this point. And this was like last year well, I mean. You know. Part of it is the timing of it. All right. question marks. But the other thing is I mean no-one purposely planned for their via pandemic? No one expected that we'd be innocent situation where we'd be trapped mostly in our homes and certainly not able to crowder way into. Election booths. But it's very clearly going to be a disproportionately. Huge challenge to preserve our democracy this year and you know. It's unquestionably going to be postal service worker who will bear a huge amount of that. Like physically and literally there that burden. I wonder how it's going up. On that note I. Mean. You mentioned that the Postal Service is still pretty manual, right? Pretty pretty analog. But it's also there it's changing trying to like updated I know that Phil you mentioned the about tracking male, which never would have happened not fifteen twenty years ago even ten years ago. I mean. What I. Guess. What does the future look like as far as you can see from your vantage point or push vantage point is. is now is is working on the line as it were. But. What does the future of post office look like in a world where people are more and more just relying on shooting electrons at each other I think it will exist to certain degree it will evolve. In order to survive I mean people. People need to send their medicine people need to send letters though the companies don't have. They don't have the ability to do that. Descend actual mailed letters as post a pack. Right, nobody else could provide postage like this. I. Mean. It's it's. It's pretty bleak when I talked to the old timers go. Yeah. The the amount of letter mail is just down. Parcel is up and it's hard to say I mean, in some ways, the pandemics is saving the post office, the post office being the postal service beginning in the news I mean, this is good publicity I suppose. With the whole mail in voting controversy and such but. It's hard to say so. You know you mentioned. Kind of beginning multigenerational postal service family. Grandparents uncles who have served in one uniform. As a military and then moved into the post office and More different uniform right from say green two blue stuff like that. When When when thinks of it that way It really does seem like a kind of an amazing metaphor, right? Like Ross different struggles, different fights, different trenches to be in but. The Post Office is is a staple heart, our democracy of our society of our economic system. It. At its heart, the most intimate way that we can actually connect with people still ride the most formal way. In the most also some ways, the most casual way to send somebody a piece of mail and I don't know when the last UN. Honestly I don't know when the last time I mailed a letter, not a card but like. A physical handwritten letter. Is probably to my parents in probably back all the way in college or or when I was. Out of the country or something but. I know that they kept them and they cherish them and. That's something which that sort of the physicality of the post office also something which I think. can't be duplicated really by any other. mechanism of communication shorter being face to face, and of course, we can't do a lot of that right now. Listen my my daughter just discovered. Receiving mail and it's the best thing ever. Said birth another long ago and then she got started getting stuff address. We'd go to the mailbox and we pick it up and then. And then I was like Oh this one's for you and she's like what and then it's it's like it's the it's the most awesome. Now. But now of course we go the mail. More more often than not does nothing for her and that sucks. Temper stations that a little bit but. Getting mail is also. It is actually got my five year old as subscription at a lego catalogs. Just, to get him get him into the. Into that world, that's awesome. It's like it's like the gateway drug. Addicted to mail. Yeah until he's like what eighteen starts getting bills. What my parents have. Wait till you get bills. I used to run to the mailbox as long as I could remember because I get. Magazines like Ranger Rick or something. I have looked forward to, and my doubt is always like. Are there any bills? No, it's a good day. I don't get a lot of build by mail anymore. As. True. You know I don't get bills by mail but I do get A. You know they're also other things that you've laid. Don't mess really Wanna get either right like. Before those digital spam there was. Five trillion circulars and vow packs. In the. Election season, right. So that's what I'm. Everything, I'm getting right now. Yes You can't have one without the other right I mean into A. So. You know all that. Sad I mean a your experience working in the post office are are there are there any things that it's really kind of taught new especially in relation to relatives yours who have also gotten the same experiences or something where it's like now you kind of sharing. Sharing a bit of a bond there with the with the prior generations sharing the suffering. Off. Now, I get I, get I get occasional text from one of my uncles. You've got to get into a different position. They're just. GonNa keep jerking your. arvydas he's honest I'm like damn it. What's the best? What's the best job to have at the post office? Provide. Perspective. Probably Probably A. Postal. Inspector. What a postal victories do the basically the the police, the investigative branch of the post office I mean, they predate the police in the United States they they investigate pretty much everything I've. Bannon, right. Let's get. Exactly. So when they say mail fraud I mean obviously mail fraud or something. We hear a lot about is actually US postal inspectors the. The enforcement wing of the USPS that that goes after those guys it is Mila. Something as small as people stealing, you know a gift card out of the lobby. People. It's pretty serious. They're very serious and the I guess travel nonstop though. somebody's GonNa. Make like A. Law and order or CSI type show about. The Postal Specter's. Kind of amusing I mean I could see it actually you know I feel like every other branch of of enforcement in in the US government has pretty much recovered at this point. So USPS Colon Berkeley. The postal inspectors? On that note, I think it's a good time for us to take a break But when we return, we will do our favorites segment the good the bad and the WF. So let's take a break sick around. Go but we're still here. And we're going strong. It's an exciting time in Asian American more movies TV shows books and music reflecting than ever but also represent just a small slice of Asian American culture and experiences. So. What do we do? Tell more slices. Asian Americana is a show that explores these slices of distinctly Asian American culture and history. We've talked about how Chinese Americans built California Sacramento Delta the art. SCENE TURNS GALLERY INSTITUTION GIANT ROBOT. A play that explores the loss Cambodian pop music of the Sixties and seventies, and of course, phobia just to name a few stories. You can find Asian Americana at Asian Americana Dot Com or on your podcast APP. Approved. and. We're back arrived on the second half of the calls. Bruce. Is when we do our favorite segment, our signature segment, the good the bad and the WPF Jeff Yang would you please lay down the rules of engagement? I will. I. Will is the law. So. This is our signature segments, our round table segment, the good, the bad and the F.. In which we take a single topic and look at it from three different angles. The first is the positive thing about that thing. The thing that makes us feel warm inside fuzzy. Joyful. And then the second is the bad the negative the downside of that thing and finally devotee f. and the is kind of the wild card. It doesn't have to be good or bad. It's just something that we`re Still musing over. So puzzling over still not quite sure about and. As again, our tradition, we pick a topic that has something to do with our guest in sometimes we chime in as well. I think though this time we're GonNa actually just let you carry this one Kevin because we want to hear the good the bad and the dump t.f of working for the US. Postal Service. Again we encourage you to just you know vs personal as offbeat as as candid or. As. Candidates you WANNA be with this but the. Yeah give us some insights and we'll start with the. The good. So what would you say the good about working for the postal? Service. The good. ME. Honestly having pretty pleasant experience growing up. You know just like I was saying earlier where you had certain things that you would look forward to and getting mail and. Package it is when you order something that was that was definitely a huge part of it think being a part of the process this point in my life, you know giving some people something to look forward to. Some people don't look for some of the things that we deliver but. I think that definitely. Feels good. It's it's strangely rewarding if I'm sorting through stuff and I see a record or. Somebody's new. Even a new fan. You know there was a heat wave recently. And it's like, yeah, they're going to joy this. A. I'd bet they'd been waiting for this. Crop. That makes me feel good. You know it's like. Okay. We're the invisible hand quote unquote. Corneas sounds but. It's been a part of that. That's great. That's really I mean I I think that's really special You know thinking of yourself as part of that that process of. The. Fan. I just thought about that like somebody just got it. So damn hard winds that fucking fair. Daily. Seventy horns it's crazy. I. Don't think you haven't worked through an actual Christmas yet right But I am kind of curious if you happen to know what it's like not not so much just from the workload, but from the sort of. From that angle right a feeling like you really are Santa's helpers, you're the ells. I guess now I guess you're right. Have you heard any stories from other people like you know veterans kind of leaning back and saying? Oh. Yeah. This what it's like it's you know pretty much I. I would always reference when I would ask fear just anxiousness anxiety You know the lassie in Raiders of the lost Ark where there's that lone worker walking through that archive. Is it like that. Yes. I mean, it's like that every day so. It's You're like okay. Another loss talking the confident dammit. So we'll see we'll check back. Gave me guys. Come. December. We'll do that well November I know number you know we'll check in and. See how that whole process has been. So you know the other thing about the good that you're mentioning there is. It really does feel like we don't. Know How much work it takes to get a fan or a check or for that matter bill from one place to another and he said so many hands I'm kind of curious like. WE'RE STILL IN A. you know we I don't think we still we still take for granted. Let's put it that way. The fact that you can send a piece of mail in generally within three to five days get anywhere in the united. States at least the continental United States Bozell how many? What's the real in brief? What is the process? If like I put something in a mailbox today you said how many Hans it actually touch him. Who kind of magic happens? Probably, I would say at least a half dozen heads. So you drop it in the mail box, you never L. Vox or wherever it's picked up by the carrier it goes. To. The station. And then generally onto a truck to a distribution of processing center and from there. Depending on where it's going. Basically mirrors that process and ends up at the at the destination. It's like planes are involved trains. Trucks are involved. Human hands on all sides. It's. Amazing piece of clockwork. All right. So that's the good. Now let's get to the dark side. Arms. What is the bad a working at the US Postal Service? So I am told and. It is true. that. If you've worked there. For Ten Years Thirty Years Forty years and you want to transfer. Out, of state. To another city. That you lose all of your seniority. and. You'd have to start from the ground up. What Yeah Yeah so if you if you`re you're care started as a carrier you work your way up to. I don't know. Some top tier I think you have to start over. Yeah it's it's pretty. Ridiculous. Yeah. What's the reason for that? Is Because you? Know, I don't know. But what I was told about half psychopath this is ridiculous. The change. There's some there's some. There's some things in place that are just a little. Little. Draconian. Brutal? I feel like me part of it is that the post office even though it's a national entity, it's very much a neighborhood thing. Right and the people who work there probably tend to work there for very long time and it's like you're not going to have somebody coming from another neighborhood switching over here real office and I'm like, okay. So he was like. You know King of the hill over there for twenty years but we don't know him. You know it's like, yeah. Does, it is that actually Are the. So are there any other like one of the things which I I think all of us are kind of curious about is like that notion of? Being a mail carrier right I mean even now like you still physically have to. As a carrier bring huge amounts of staff door to door. I mean you're not a carrier I know but I I mean, you probably have some visibility into what that lifestyles like I imagine it's It's rough, right? It seems. Yeah. It seems pretty I. Mean they deal with what they're out there. Getting Stung by wasps. In harassed getting bit chased her bid my dogs that the dog thing is true. I don't know what it is. Now full support for the carriers up there. I mean they're they can be the salty as people, the most you loving people and desert you. We develop these relationships with our carriers in neighborhoods. I don't think people actually know what they go through out there I mean what they have to do to bring bring bring people stuff. It's absolutely incredible and wonder how many miles an average carrier has to walk in a year and how many pounds they carry you know collectively. I wish I I've been wanting to ask the the people there. I avalanches to see what their steps are per day. I wonder about that too. Jeff Jeff, do you know the name of your carrier? I must say I do not do. You. Do you know who the looks like have you seen him or her her actually? Yeah I. DO I DO RECOGNIZE My carrier. And I've lived for two years. I should now, right But you know one of the things is this I'm until recently, I've not been at home most of the time when meals delivered and So in the past you know postal service postal delivery it was something where you know I guess 'cause the way people's days and schedules work. You'd be like their surly Saturdays I guess you'd be there and by the way Saturday mail delivery. Amazing right we don't think about it but the the male, the male actually coming on weekends is something which a lot of other countries don't have. A male going for as as expensive sounds to put a stamp on something these days. Sorry, it's nothing to how much it cost to mail stuff in other countries While we're the places, you don't get door to door service. You know there's a lot of stuff you have to pick up from local. Like convenience stores and stuff like that. So it's We just don't give enough love to the the American version of of how meals delivered but I I I feel I don't have a personal relationship with my mail carrier and now I feel kind of like Shit. WE'RE NOT going. To. Deport a finger and. Make. You feel that way I, just I was just curious. I mean I'm just curious how other people were late to their relationship with their. Their you know their individual carrier it's But you know I I feel like this time. Everything we've been talking about between Colvin and. Trump's assault on the postal service. It's been an interesting time for for PR. For for Postal Service right I mean everyone suddenly is very. You know the some of the very cognizant of of. The the pulse value in their lives, and there's been a kind of resurgence of appreciation I. Think for for you know the service on that will also individual carriers. You know I I would very much like to think that. Yeah, that it is it is something last beyond pandemic. We'll see. If we if any of us. Survive beyond this pandemic. Survive. The rest of the year. Yeah. My Gosh. That's a that's a pretty good segue. As we wonder that to the third and final round of our. Our round table segment, and that is the T. F. in this case, the WTO of working at the Postal Service and. Again. This can be just questioned. You have a very you know any weird instance you can share things. You didn't know that you now know like big did you knows Frankly the cockroach thing is already pretty damn big. We work six days a week I mean, it's not an eight hour day job. It's nine to eleven to twelve to sometimes I, think the Max is fifteen hour days. So you know I once worked from eleven to eleven I think is. Is it something where you have to work until like the mail is done or? How does that we're? Not. while. Sometimes depending on where you are and what you're doing the work to be done but he can't just leave leave things hanging. It's not it's not one of those jobs you know it's not like coating a website there just long days and it's it's it was shocking. You know they told me that the hours are long and you know are are you ready for this? Sure. It's I. Don't think it's completely wild to me that I'm still doing this. Yeah. Six days a week is a little extreme think about. Think about your uncle and grandfather and stuff who did it for how many years you know I, I don't even know in the modern think about them. They're pretty pleasant. Wasn't guys have having gone through that and I respect them and love him so much for that. I just want weekends back. I asked. My coworkers has been. Thirty two years asked her the. Last month. Hey how long did it take you to have weekends go thirteen years Are you serious? Crazy, while before we before we sign off I, mean since we're still in the WF moved. Any kind of interesting stories besides the cockroach thing. That you've come across in working there so far. I mean maybe especially in the context of of the weird times we're in right now like have you actually had any any weird circumstances or? Situations occur that you observed were part of not necessarily weird but regarding the current climate. With election coming up. So people. With Political Mail, you cannot throw it away until after the elections are over. It doesn't matter what it is. I Guess WanNa. Sunday. Somebody was what they call walked I. Guess they had somebody come in and I think I think it was a postal inspector and they saw that there was global nail and recycling Escorted out. Wow. Yes. So that's We we're giving a talk. They're saying that this this this election more than any other in history is probably the one that. Everybody's GonNa. Keep Beekeeping and so it's it's just not worth it. So all political ones to be regarded as basically the most valuable thing right now that we need to make sure people get it. No matter. What side you're on and Play out. That is amazing. I. Mean. We're. On so many levels. Amazing but it's like. Putting stuff in recycling and then. And then being told. That you know doing so as a federal crime, which is right. There prosecuted. I. Mean They were there for like twenty five years done within seconds. Yeah, Massoud away for you should. See that somebody went into work yesterday. Do I WANNA. Like jokingly. threw. It's crazy because That's goes directly in the trash as soon as it comes to my into my mailbox you. pull it out. Directly to. The recycling bin so. I didn't even look at who who's who's running what measure it's advertising, but you know. So. That's that's you know that's wild well. I you know. I think just that very anecdote underscores how critical The Mail Service isn't is you for all of us, but also how seriously the post services taking this moment I mean that's That's that's wild like literally just people saying. We are. The guardians of this moment we are the the people who. People are GONNA look to say if this didn't work like history has is on us. That is pretty amazing. Amazing your who would have thought that the postal service would be sort of our last bastion and trenchant to. Preserve, freedom. Freedom, and justice. And yet, here we are. Well. Let me say then. Kevin. Thank you for your service. Thanks so Kevin. Where can people find you online if if at all? Well I have a website for the design work which is not updated as frequently as it was it's a viral optic dot com. That has links to everything every every every creative. Outlet so viral dot. com I'm on social media that doubt really update it. Do you want to share a little bit a little bit more about the kind of of do you do a lot of design work for for like bands and music and stuff with that right? Yeah. I've been doing that for a long time kind of a side hustle like you guys were talking about you know hustling. It's just part of my existence as well as doing a lot of art direction and design for. For underground bands. Experimental or metal. I've worked for publishers. I worked for Actually Comic Book Publisher. Comic Book Publisher you to the walking dead. Yeah for Image Comics did the licensing digital rights I did. ADS At designed for them as well I've I've worn so many hats guys it's it's pretty incredible and here you are wearing a an unexpected one. In her our time of greatest need Kevin our time Magritte's need. But. No. seriously. Not. Even not even. Planning here thank you for your service and for the postal services service in time just become. So clear to us how important it is. Absolutely you're welcome. Jeff, where can people find you? I am at a regional spin pretty much everywhere on the digital. Thing we call the Internet I would give you my postal address, but that's private guys. What you feel. You'd find me at angry Asian man on more social media and I'm angry DOT com. You can find they call spruce at Kohl's Bruce and you can find on apple podcasts. Give us a rating review would really appreciate it helps people find the show if I may I'd like to plug my brand new podcast that. Just launched, it is a super narrow nerdy niche of a show, but it is called all the Asians on Star Trek. It's a podcast in which I interview all the Asians on star, Trek. So in these dark times, it's kind of this. Thing that? That I've launched in really look forward to sharing with the world. So check out all the Asians on STAR TREK DOT com. That does it for this episode of they call US Bruce. Kevin genuine. Thank you so much for your time and. Once again, thanks for your service and the Postal Service. Thanks for having us. All right everybody until next time piece. You've been listening to they call US Bruce with Jeff Yang and Phil you. Our theme music is by Carol One. Our producer is Nick Song. They call US Bruce as a member of the POTLUCK podcast collective featuring unique voices and stories from the Asian American community. Find out more at PODCAST POTLUCK DOT com. And thanks for listening.

Postal Services Post Office United States US Postal Service Bruce Kevin Phil You Jeff Yang Jeff Jeff Amazon California Postal Service Oakland Robert Townsend Los Angeles Montebello A. End Minneapolis Daly City Hollywood
38. The Two of Us Shorts with Gemma Weekes

The Two Of Us

22:04 min | 5 months ago

38. The Two of Us Shorts with Gemma Weekes

"You rebels radio presents. The two of US shorts with Naomi Watterson Alber Frederick High. This is naming lettuce. Welcome to the US Charts Myself Alba freshdirect talking to people across the globe about that pandemic and its relationship to creativity. Mental health emotional wellbeing and as always. I'd like to get a trigger warning. These adult shows the themes will be complex and interesting. And maybe at sometimes be triggering. If you're over ten the disposition today put this on pause and put market for later saw otherwise. Die Right. I'm going to start with you is I bust. I boy is still go. All me those Corinthian I get to sit at home sleep but to do a best were on. D. Misbehaves Skull maybe WANNA g people on tape because Hanging out with your mom used being home-schooled difficulty you so adapt to that only because I don't like socializing people. A lot of the entire is that a Would usually because my mom's friends like eastern easily Friends I don't really like socializing in general so but being used to it and being with Mamola did help these onetravel. Yes so dave. Thank generally then the introverts. Do you think they find parenting easier. Most likely because probably find a probably find it a little easier to stay at home when one of the goals was to not really socialize with people. Mitzi like it would make it easier in terms of desk day today living. Do keep up with news from the MOM. What have you do you hear from grownups? Don't watch the news usually just hear it from my mom amongst friends. I prefer it that way. Yes because at a have to go find the information myself. Because I've looked I have a bunch of difference of Nation I WANNA learn about so swampy distribution of kind thing. You sound by. Actually you're quite outside. He likes spending time at home. Now was was once babyface. You're doing what you WANNA do. intensive news. If you need to get the information you know the can but you're just doing it. Is that feel like stresses on those things that in some cases you can avoid it because it'd be important the slow then again. Does the kind of stress that if you look on this channel that we'll be people dying in this problem now. People like try to spread the virus that so usually I stay away from. That is stress really. Doesn't help anyone and it turns out that actually weakens your immune system. I'm totally fine with staying at home. I think that's quite quite immature attitude but whistling hung there. Can you still go out because like hair? People assault on lockdown can still exercise alot of how long exercise has been quite fag. So it's complicated maxes. Can you still get to go outside? One passing is allowed in a store time. And it's twenty four hour. Look up to the point where he told he told the people who sent Lucia to to Stop going outside. They didn't listen so now he's made a point he was going to arrest them for bet a novice one possible allowed in the in the school. Yeah it has been really. We just came out the twenty four hour lockdown when we won a twenty four hour curfew so we want allowed out for a week. Basically out you know. Even even essential services were closed first restoring. Everything was closed for weeks and they've just reopened This week and so now. The curfew is from five. Am to seventy but obviously because this phone closed Huge queues are outside waiting for the the stores are been for about four five hours because only laying a limited amount of food store. You have to have you have to be wearing. But there's just because no one had food and everyone's worried that it's GonNa happen again. You know I think it. I think it creates Angie stress although incent new cases also very long so ungrateful for that because those proactive Juno. How many cases arms show yet was still at fourteen? Of course I really love. Yeah yes so. That's the last check. And what about folks really big tourist industry are that flights coming in getting out on that got locked down? Yes Amo school to disappear. Yeah the fast case that like nope not the best case by Monday. Everything was not long may come really take to the fact that you're an island because the disadvantage of the. Marlins let's not let's run Ba- cry dense close because it small but the advantages is the fits on Ireland. So if you do out there so down and it seems like even though there's not that many cases there that seems to be a cultural taking very seriously ball think the general attitude towards Latins decent people out so they wanted a beedon's for frustration. You can have a measure I think you know. I think it varies I mean there's always GonNa be people shouting rules not taking them seriously. Which makes it difficult everyone else. But ultimately I think that people are akin to just stuff it from become a real forbid tonight I mean. I don't think a low fuel agreed with the twenty four hour curfew situation but in general in a you know people wearing them mosques. You know that Dana social distancing as far as I can see so I think there is definitely people. Take me seriously here to show. But I'm wondering if you have twenty four hour Not for a way than anything else is gonNA seem better Saturday. So get people to Boylston focused yet done comment. You can get honest people a lot 'cause as incarcerating as the original. Yeah Yeah Yeah exactly now. It feels like it feels amazing. Amazing like to just go to the deep at this point. We're just crazy it's crazy. It's a bus. So is it going to impact from higher celebrating your birthday original plans today instead? Original plans are out there to say so. It was buying for you party with will. This happens Stay at home by like a few times before had those towers really dreadful. Those really matter. What's happening outside the house? You keep yourself busy To be honest I like watching videos. Bang Video Games and taking things from those video. Games drags to figure out to create a new life Z. Mending from lost some law Air Bender and so it seems that you're superpower is keeping us of occupied as Matt also be tons tons on an example. I think about ready good. Besides being able to find things that you find are the entertaining or educational or both. I'm not busy well up art museum doing anything there. I created A. It's a it's been interesting. I've seen a couple of posts on one by Diane which was just Saying that we need to not overextend. Put too much pressure. More of those to be dotted yeah and there's actually a couple of posts posts like that and I think that it's important to remember because I've gone through. Definitely you know have plans. I'm going to do these when this happened. When this old I started it felt like an extended Christmas holiday accuse all just being off. School has okay if time now then as time on you realize that she is. It's quite an uncertain time. And and you know I am. Zion will though had to give myself off time to say and censor myself as well on a knock pushed him hard in our. I'm definitely working on things up just landing. Sometimes I need to just sit down for a minute and take breaths Grace I just I ready Anything problems vice bake a longtime project feels like I started it because the dynamic it feels like a historical drama Historical it doesn't feel like it's from the same live. It doesn't female in the same language. Absolutely it's still back at the moment. There's so much news and I'm definitely depressing way. We'll just send me some random thing that he folded and on the optimal I'll send you this notes article about why it's made out. I'm back really annoying when he does that. That's not so good passing. I went on a question to ask because we said about creativity Stop Partic- on the way but Latin Attila's are things less ought to engage your mind and things you still got ideas you so fascinated you. Don't feel that pressure which perhaps your mom's house it. I'm right there. Yeah mostly because I don't really feel that stressing about things mostly because I'm entirely okay. Unsafe knowing that he will announce it seriously. And also that nobody's GonNa rock up to my house and Scott Cook running around the gem fair. Do you feel unsafe. Just the global picture or people you know the comes out with that gives you the sense applied. You need to brave. It's perhaps harder to throw yourself into your work same way. I feel like in general. The one of the joys of being a child is that you get to outsource worry June. I mean after like because ultimately as long as he has wifi and fades. I'm yet he's also the ability to kind of sad party. When it comes to these things as in GIS work into this and I just see this was no mission like no preconceived. Yeah does nothing is static. What is no pinions? Nothing carnage about it truthfully interesting. Yeah but yeah I I think for me. There's just a little unsettling way it for the future but I don't I think children on as to centric as I told now. Yeah Yeah one point. I was struck family to watch it up slowly and again At one point I was in now way too much at one point. New are what kind of sieges century? Because I'm this age not like study national me out thoughts about that and I just sat at off now than realize Obama being not realize the people live Fifty sixty or seventy or eighty. Thirteen it's not your job to do. Great Planning spreadsheet over Five Year Plan. bank funny that you would like to shine. Yes looking We're GONNA read something we're GonNa do line by line. This is a part of this road. Visit part of my Roy awhile ago but website out we need all right now initiative be nice. I read it decided license already so June. Read it together. Line by Line K article. We made out right now. We are we all right now. We right now. We are each a world unto ourselves. We create the world with our is on scene genius created as we. We've hoped out of disappointment on compression We make friends and lovers out to strangers allies. Also Conan's teachers out of commences our transformation in motion. We create the world daily as we live in it. We have will. We are angled ever to would progress. We are humans creating Leo making ourselves often every soul an action we are visionaries carrying within US obesity. Will we have never seen manifest we all the manifestation we all be unseen seem we advancing music? That never goes them. We attune nimble for Dogma to faster to fan all we know that being right is no we know that consciousness is the great vessel. We ARE CROFTING. That will save US forward. We know that we are human above. All we do not subscribe to the fiction. That life is happening to us. We know that we are Hutton. Right now is the happening. We will make woes off the image in the daily lossing blossoming who we are is more important than Hash time or affiliation. We know that how we behave is more important than what we believe. We do not snuck out hatred with hatred. Not Contest anger with anger. Love isn't real monsters. We bring to every interaction a cool Clinton intelligence of Pasta. We know that a monstrous at work. We know that the WOK is love. We make world painting a feature. We allow our children dignity. Attention and sweetness. We own we hope behold a loved ones loosely and with respect we own nobody on we are not on we get from free and other phone hearts you see us on we tread soft we hold the vision of what we want clip before ons. We do not wake the world. We want the limit now. Living is the art. We make together reality the page. We are writing the passing the picture we are painting. The steps will Johnson without positions available. We Are we are right now with. We need right now. Oh Wow that was absolutely amazing. Thank you lovely. It was lovely that you'd read it together as well. It just seems really even poignant Generational thing I just feels really important. I'm so grateful that goodbyes. I on his day to document S. One day he'll he'll look back and be like wow I was ending eighteen. Seventy eight during the Global Fund. I is. I don't think I'm supposed to quite more questions when Spicer View I'm one. What makes you help from The knowledge that this will stop the knowledge that we will persevere and after this may be leaders will get some intelligence to stop waiting Realization that may be the few things atop environment also by affiliation double US seeing as the environment is the thing that allows us to live. Yeah yeah juice well. Yama will give you a hug. Yeah I think he said it really well severeness that just the just the hope that we have a shifted in this year we definitely now all tend to wilt. Mayor we have a choice is only so much destruction that you can have for when looking at you know what he was saying if our nature being renewed from this and we're looking at the fact that aside of all the money and commerce and would these things which is these mammals cleaning to the US if that's not a wave cool Muslim humbling. I don't know what is in. I think yeah unnecessary. Yeah fine head. And he said with his juice. Thad I have a beautiful day. This will be out soon. Didn't have global fine. Thank you both so much. Mom Thank you gotTa thank you so much. Listen to show the wonderful music. You can have as by Gavin Brian. If you like this show please subscribe. There's plenty of episodes listen to us. Good Neal's stabilises

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54. The Two of Us SHORTS with Paloma Tendero

The Two Of Us

29:42 min | 3 months ago

54. The Two of Us SHORTS with Paloma Tendero

"You rebels radio presents the two of US shorts with Naomi. Watterson Albert Frederick. High this is naming lattice. Welcome to the US Shots Myself Alba Frederick, talking to people across the globe about that pandemic. And its relationship to creativity, mental health emotional wellbeing. And as always I'd like to. A warning. These adult shows of the themes will be complex and interesting, and maybe it sometimes be triggering. If you're over ten the disposition today, put this on pause and put market Valetta otherwise dime, right? It gives me huge pleasure to introduce. A fellow artist photographer. Sculptor I got a lot of shrinks to by the lovely. Paloma Kandara have I said that correctly, yes. Now I think when I first saw your work very slow your photographer, but that's quite limited description of what you do. You used photography to record. Your body an interactions with the sculptures you make so photography doesn't seem to be an adequate description. How would you describe yourself in terms of your work? I think I would describe myself as happy while artist. my background as you say is in a sculpture, but I found photography way of putting myself. In maybe in a different medium. I remember. After graduating are thinking. how GonNa work as sculpture like. And never going to be able to afford an escort jer like. Warehouse? Like appropriate studio so. When I started working in photography and I found that I will combine both mediums. It was like a wonderful way of like. With! A medium that allows me to maybe have less space because I don't know like with photography unique to have a huge studio to work. On I think that's why at a no I found like a way of combining two of my passions in my practice. In terms of your work now, so drawing this pandemic chapter. How's your work being addressing that? Do you think? Okay Yeah I guess Set to be on his part of me, have to Kind of remember. How are you still abduct I think. During this isolation period I felt Obata. I guess lost like I. Don't know why so do like. You know. We don't have really guidance even about in terms of like going out Orlean and I. Think I to you in my old work. And I don't like maybe. Taking what I used to do before when I did a have like even in mediums to that myself. and. I haven't create much. I have been just reading mostly unthinking. And definitely I'm sure that decides election period will come into my ad work at being. I always work with my personal experiences. And I often have responses of the experiences through life. Making, art. I've been thinking it will be like. Make a specific a piece about isolation. But I think it will be maybe translated in some of the languages. In the pace if that makes sense does make sense because I think Recommend anybody to look at your website. Because you often through themes Kazoo look to your your mother. Your health having children I'm sometimes the body work. Is Simultaneously so fragile and strong, because it's your boating us in the work and your face is sometimes. The thing that marks as most personal, but sometimes with the names of your work, the thing that makes it most personal for me. So how would you describe the themes that you're exploring or any so compelling things that you're looking at and your word was you're always. Drawn to over and over again. I think one of the things I look at the most east. How I would for these are like Basil's and how we are A. kind of like containers, so we contain in our own body, it contains you know our organs. But also you know our inheritance, our genetics and Mostly who we are lake is like where we come in from, but also even the memories and the trauma that we have through our lives are contained in this single body, and I think there's something that I. Often like look. And Restart? Something that recently I have been thinking a lot about. human condition on what is. What if health. Is actually the natural. Way of the human condition. What if actually illness east the natural way? And then he's health something that maybe we haven't asked in society because we have to you know, produce and work and Buffoon Shannon, but as human beings we transform. And I keep thinking about this transformation and our body how you know. If you think about it, I. Don't remember my hands when I was five years old. I know they would small. But then like you know, they have transform, and then you bully keeps changing and the same way physically change we chains. Internally? And I think those are the subjects I think. I kind of like I got rhythm. To make what? I think it's really essential. It's quite radical to save the. Health might not be the natural state of being but Warren the slow of state of. Of. Transformation and some the K.. Because of necessarily, but that baron flocks and the body isn't static and I think. Sometimes about the health narratives, the body in is very static. In at this point I just say to people just put this on pause and go on the website, because people will be able to say how you interact with these sorts of body sculptures, with sometimes worte or uncomfortable or cellular. Did you do that consciously aware you just working towards the same when you just? Were overtaken by something on the knew that this was the. The sort of route you hat take. I, have always worked very organically like I think I have always find. That I want to work with my hands. Yeah I. Think they touch and a I. Don't know working with material and I liked to transform day materials into new things. So for example, my recent work on mutability I started collecting these empty Khartoum's and I didn't know the race on I just suddenly driven by like taking their. And then I make paper much with them and I created new shapes of X.. which are oversized? I'm really big. and. Wasn't after half after I did the schouten when I realized. I'm actually talking about patilally I'm. Kind of wondering and questioning the balance in between. I were Maybe genetics and our personal choices ourselves will. So I think in terms of my career in terms of all day Portraits are a half. I think everything came first. Being playful, maybe trying to find a way of how can I express something that I have inside me? With materials that I come flying around the house or around normally. I work with things that they are accessible like textiles or things that I can't find easily so I start like make him. And and then. Is When I. Kind of movie star. Into the theory I guessed are and finding a way of. Keeping. The boys all. Making a meaning of it. And I was playing now you are explaining what it sounds like. especially with your own mutability excited seen some of those already on the website as well. I'm there's something really poignant about them about what the egg means, 'cause. Just. Slow to offer Tila. But now. For me, they've added meaning because of what in this pandemic about giving birth to a new world, because it's about possibilities and perhaps lost possibilities so I think. The symbolism of an egg is so wonderful. I'm so. Some meaningful ideas but I find Yeah I think you make sense because I think if you came to vote online gun to make a project exploring fatility, or this I'm GonNa. Make a project about that. Oh, I am now going to get these egg cartons. You wouldn't have the same project very fact that your sort of guided by something within you hasn't got a voice. Yeah, but it's guidance. You I think. Make such powerful work. And I? Know it's true of all photography. Because what we do with the topography, we take our Ross wherever they may be on the three dimensional for the most part. is made two dimensional light paintings. There's something that happens with the squashing of what we say, but because we're used to saying. You know photographs in our lives anyway. The sorts of used to the fact that that's no longer three dimensional. It's the to died venture representation of a three dimensional thing, but what I think with your work. is still remains three dimensional. It still fails. Very physical, and there's almost some. Choreography in it so when you move. How much do you plan that or is that again? This sense of being led by something unjust feeling your way through. Usually. I get inspired ray often by classical paintings. Mostly classical sculptures like I love going to like Muslim or or seeing you know like? The News on all of these like PC's. Of Of Marble. So okay, so it's codeshare is like preservation. You know of of the body I come say so. I think I keep in my mind. These images of like how you know this is corporate posing. But then when I am making my own work. Is Not like a think about those postseason, but. Thing is again. Some kind of Cathartic way has some kind of like. I star. Posing and the moment I do. The photographs I feel relief in my body is just somehow like is really Cathartic. Way, so it's not like I don't have anything ready. Because obviously you know like sometimes I try to find. Yes i. say like maybe classic. Postures. But but I well. I found like I. Don't know what my body wants at the time. And I feel okay. You know if I if I sit down if I feel like standing up I, let myself go. It's not like Ian either half any. Guidance. Yeah I, follow my lead them. But that that's beautiful and do when you have like this source, a photo shoot which almost seems like. Less like trump's to you'll just take him over how that might be taken over by package of news that can be done into it, and you don't plan. Your dance moves to just find your way through, and like you said defined rhythm as a solitary experience. Do you have lack assistance or other people around? Do while still doing that I do that or do just as it you on both sides of the Lens in the studio. Creating this work. I'm I often have are people who helped me and I'm so grateful. Light really. Thanks, everybody who has helped me in the studio because. It is so hard to balance all these objects by yourself and having to press the shutter. Is, often you know like It is really nice to have someone there with you. But in many ways you know because. It is Is it I. Like to have people who is like personally intimate with me as well. I often feel like I meet around me. That understand my words a nice going to understand me. Lying what I'm doing. So yeah I I do have. People helping me because I realized as your friends I've never asked his I'm because the images quite solitary I've just imagined you own your own. Somehow impossibly gung from dislike fragile AL, pose holding these fragile things and complex positions, and then suddenly leaping up and. Taking the. Assad, how does she do it? She's amazing, but it's like you say it's like there has to be people you trust around you who are doing some of the technical stuff, but there are also witnessing the relationship that's evolving. With yourself and so now I'm thinking now why to know about the process of your work a bit more. What spin yourself emotional experience of the pandemic. Have, you been able to draw on, not just your creativity, but by approach of. Finding a rhythm, not enforcing rhythm on yourself. How slat helped toll? In. Dealing with the the unknown. steelite trying to. To find out. How even feel in this period? at first. I. Trust will be only lag. Now like a month maybe. Bit Longer, but not really. So I, didn't even? Start creating anything like it was kind of like. Forced videoed. Oh! Like just being at home so. It's not like can add TV. D. O. Inspiration is just GONNA. Come because I am not working like. Other thing for me, works that way, not because I have. All of these like free weeks Saturday I'M GONNA. Make a masterpiece leg east even often when. I am BC when you know videos of like heavy like word. When silently I found that I need to create the most and I think because a scape for my mind to create art. And now because I have all of these time, available every. Time. I don't know I just I. Find it really difficult to. Properly focused on and make something. So. I think I have been trying to. The. We really responsible in a sense of. Okay you know? I am not going to leave as I used to leave before the pandemic because that's the whole point. that. Since supposed to feel the same way as before or the wise, we are not doing things right. so I think this has been. A might add of. That I into. s still make my own work like in. I'm. Even looking archives on the inter- night till to keep inspired myself but. Being gentle with myself and thinking well if I'm finding the three men to make. It took. The? Let's really mature because I think people responded very differently. Some people making law. 'cause that fails support for them. And I think it's like three just like. When of were that some constraints by himself? You know you're working. Go Daydream This that I'm the Newark as well. You seem to flower Shandra. Certain sort of pressure is quite good for you, but now that you save got open-ended time. I'm that's not helping. But you'll reading some ready curious to know what you're reading. So. I am reading the story of pain. And I think is quite fascinating like to see. I I. Love the title because. Now called the story of pain because pain can be dated. And I absolutely love the fact that you know is a human experience. And even everybody feels pain differently. Manasseh how other people react to pain? As well like a very different like. So at the moment on. I was trying to see if I make some kind of parade. About pain. but I am there. I just don't know. He's GonNa come or these. Here. and was it that really attracted you to the apart from the fact that it's not a history. It's a story which makes it sounds like there's multiple experiences. Why did you feel that you need to be a? Why did you feel you needed to read that book? I. I came up after conversation with another artist and live away of. We were both in the same boat of. Item feel like creating now like I. Don't know how I like an talking about. I guess it is when you have lost someone in your life like I lost my mom. When I was quite young, so. I just think. It is stemmed when you realize. The pain. That means to lose this. On now that we are in this pandemic. some thanks feel like. The people who is not taking the issues that they still it may be because they didn't lost their loved ones. I'm think. Thinking about all of the? and. Watching US welcome documentaries about you know they black black play and past pandemics everything. I I, so something that. Pain transform you and Bain transform societies and paint transform humans, and because I am in this loop about transformation I feel. He we on bow, lay in this moment of uncertainty. I'm paying and I want to know how the pain is going to transform us the same way. I felt and as formation loosen my mother. How always society transforming. I'm how you know. We are going to come out of this if excess. I just want to get the book as soon as we get off this interview. I'M GONNA. Be Looking for on long during big Old Burgess thing I. I think that about the pain being transformative because I was talking with my mom, she's ninety two online she's. She's lived through the Second World War. She's quite stoical. I was talking with him wondering when these incredible pressurizing situations. Why disarm paypal seem to be. Afflicted with the most awful trauma and trauma, especially like PTSD IN COMPLEX PTSD. It's like stock record. It goes round and round round, and other people seem to feel quite stoical. And that was like there seemed to be like a fork in the road between. Different experiences and then I then I thought was the by intergenerational trauma when. Generations have got the. Freedom to even begin to explore their pain. So they push it down and they carry on, keep calm and carry on something, and then the next generation, the generation of that other people to express the full extent. What's happened? I mean that's a complex so. Discussion because it can't really be measured than there is something about intergenerational drum being real thing. But. As as just add in what you're saying about. The trans formative quality of pain which egner. Has. Everything you know it's sadness, but it also has optimism at has. Sold about creating new meaning and living differently. So thank you answer I've got one more question. And Desperate HOUSEMAN PEOPLE I've. Thought about a world or question asking them to respond to win whatever way and I've done a bit of a you of just use the intuitively. I've just been writing down the. So the question for you is where is home? I think. Many places I think nowadays a home is where I feel safe. Home is where I feel myself. And I think I, a half few homes nowadays. So I feel that I have a home here in England. Because I feel at home at my house with my boyfriend and I feel like he made me feel at home and my friends around me. I feel at home. But then I have my home in a Spain, and that would always be my home so when I go back to my parents on my see my dad and my brother. is like a nevertheless. Then I don't remember you know. When did I leave like you know this is my home. I! Think yeah, I think I yeah. You can bill home. As long as you have your loved ones around. You know anywhere. Slow beautiful. Slash mice on the. Absolutely love lay. I think that's a really nice place to. End The interview. Tender soft place, but I'm just say huge signed Q to Paloma people can find online. They can enjoy your work. The really comprehensive websites of people can say they can. For you on Instagram Social Megyn. They want something more current, but I definitely definitely recommend anybody. To go to your website, because the work is absolutely outstanding. Airs. I love your work. That's absolutely amazing. It's like. What you say, and then your talk about transmission. The your life has changed after. Ucla new bring something entirely new. To the home. I suppose. Whole Canon, all artists everywhere such thing as possible, but you just the adding meaning on it's also a beautiful. That's the album thing it's not only. Meaningful and a thought provoking unharmed opening beautiful to look at. So united to win win win I say I'm a fan anyway, so thank you so much. And huge hawks to you. Thank you so much now me was good food and thank you for only cost. Steal this and I. Hope I answered everything well, if anyone has any questions on. My contact in my website, so I'm always happy to. Answer more questions. If anyone wants to know more of my word, or they would like to cooperate or any kind of. Information. So I. Keep saying grandkids on lot. tank you so much. The wonderful music. You can have by Gavin Brian if you like the show, please subscribe this plenty of emphasis. Listen to. The Good News, sable?

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00:40 sec | 1 year ago

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"Hey everyone it's nausea Mandy and Nadia Moham- and it's time you got a relatable unapologetic view on life with the ladies like US podcast. We're going to give you a modern day woman's perspective on the issues that really matter anything.

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54. The Two of Us SHORTS with Paloma Tendero

The Two Of Us

29:42 min | 3 months ago

54. The Two of Us SHORTS with Paloma Tendero

"You rebels radio presents the two of US shorts with Naomi Watterson Albert Frederick. High this is naming lattice welcome to the US shots myself Alba freshdirect talking to people across the globe about that pandemic experience. On its relationship to creativity, mental health emotional wellbeing. And, as always I'd like to trick a warning. These adult shows of the themes will be complex and interesting, and maybe it sometimes be triggering. If you're over ten the disposition today, put this on pause and put market for later saw otherwise dime, right. It gives me huge pleasure to introduce. A fellow artist photographer. Sculptor I got a lot of shrinks to by the lovely. Paloma Kandara have I said that correctly. Yes. Now I think when I first saw your work very slow your photographer, but that's quite limited description of what you do. You used photography to record. Your body an interactions with the sculptures you make so photography doesn't seem to be an adequate description. How would you describe yourself in terms of your work? I think I would describe myself as happy while artist. my background as you say is in a sculpture, but I found photography a way of. Doing Myself! In maybe in a different medium. I remember. After graduating are thinking. how GONNA. WORK AS SCULPTURE LIKE! I'm never going to be able to afford an escort jer like. Warehouse! Like appropriate studio so. When I started working in photography and I found that I will combine both mediums. It was like a wonderful way of like. With. A medium that. Me To. Maybe have less space because I don't know like with photography unique to have a huge studio to work. On I think that's why, at a No. I found like a way of combining two of my passions in my practice. In terms of your work now so drawing this pandemic chapter. How's your work being addressing that? Do you think? Okay Yeah I guess Set to be on his part of me, have to Kind of remember. How are you still abduct I think? During this isolation period, I felt Obata. I guess lost like I don't know why so do like. You know we don't have really guidance even about in terms of like going out in and I. Think I said to you in my old work. And I don't like maybe. Taking what I used to do before when I did a have like even in mediums to that myself. and. I haven't create much I. Have Been just reading mostly unthinking. And definitely I'm sure that decides. Election. Period will come into my ad work at being. I always work with my personal experiences. And I often have responses of the experiences through life. Making art. I've been thinking. It will be lake a specific a piece about isolation. But I think it will be maybe thrust laid in some of the languages. In the pace. If that makes sense does make sense because I think recommend anybody to look at your website. Because you often through themes Kazoo up to your your mother, your health having children I'm off on sometimes the body work. Is Simultaneously so fragile and strong, because it's your boating us in the work, and your faces faces sometimes. The thing that marks as most personal, but sometimes with the names of your work, the thing that makes it most personal for me. So how would you describe the themes that you're exploring or any is compelling things that you're looking at and your word? You're always. Drawn to over and over again. I think one of the things I look at the most east. How I would for these are like Basil's and how we are A. kind of like containers, so we contain in our own body. It contains you know our organs. But? Also you know our inheritance, our genetics and Mostly who we are lake is like where we come in from, but also even the memories and the trauma that we have through our lives are contained in this single body, and I think there's something that I often like look. And Reset. Something? That recently I have been thinking a lot about. human condition on what is. What if? health. Is actually the natural. Way of the human condition. What if actually illness east the natural way? And, then he's health something that maybe we haven't asked in society because we have to you know, produce and work and buffoon Shannon but Osama. Human beings we transform. And I keep thinking about this transformation and our body how you know. If you think about it. I don't remember my hands. When I was five years old. I know they would small. But then like you know, they have transform, and then you bully keeps changing and the same way physically change we chains. Internally. And I think those are the subjects I think. I kind of like I got rhythm. To make what? I think it's really essential. It's quite radical to save the. Health might not be the natural state of being that Warren the slow of state of. Of? Transformation and some the K.. Because of necessarily, but that baron flocks and the body isn't static and I think. Sometimes about so health narratives the body scene is very static. In at this point, I just say to people just put this on pause and go on the website because people will be able to say how you interact with these sorts of. Sculptures with sometimes the worte or uncomfortable or cellular. Did you do that consciously away? You just working towards the same when you just. Were overtaken by something on the knew that this was the. The sort of route you hats take. I have always worked very organically like I think I have always find. That I want to what with my hands yeah. I think they thought and a I don't know working with material and I liked to transform day materials into new things. So for example, my recent work on mutability. I started collecting these empty. Khartoum's and I didn't know the race on I just suddenly driven by like taking their. And then I. make paper much with them and I created new shapes of X.. which are oversized? I'm really big. and. Wasn't after half after I did the schouten when I realized I'm actually talking about for Tilleke I'm. Kind of wondering and questioning the balance in between. I were Maybe, genetics and our personal choices ourselves will. So I think in terms of my career in terms of all the. Protests are a half. I think everything came I. Being. Playful, maybe trying to find a way of how can I express? Is something that I have in me? With materials that I can find around the house or around normally. I work with things that they are accessible like textiles or things that I come find easily, so I start like make. I'm and then. Is When I. Like maybe you star. into the salary I guessed are and finding a way of. Keeping. The boys all of making a meaning of it. And I was playing now you are explaining what it sounds like especially with your own mutability, I've seen some of those already on the website as well. I'm there's something really poignant about them about what the egg means, 'cause it. Just slow to offer Tila. See but now. For me, they've added meaning because of what in this pandemic about giving birth to a new world, because it's about possibilities and perhaps lost possibilities so I think. The symbolism of an egg is so wonderful I'm so. Some meaningful guess but I find Yeah I think you make sense because I think if you came to vote? Gun To make a project exploring fatility or this I'm GonNa make a project about that. I am now going to get these egg cartons. You wouldn't have the same project very fact that your sort of guided by something within you hasn't got a voice. Yeah, but it's guidance you think. Make such powerful work. And I know it's true of all photography. Because what we do with photography, we take our photographs wherever they may be on the three dimensional for the most part. is made two dimensional light paintings. There's something that happens with the squashing of what we say, but because they used to saying. You know photographs in our lives anyway. The sort of used to the fact that that's no longer three dimensional. It's the to died venture representation of a three dimensional thing, but what I think with your work. is still remains three dimensional. It still fails. Very physical and there's almost some. Choreography in it so when you move. How much do you plan that or is that again? This sense of being led by something unjust. Feeling your way through. Usually! I get inspired ray often by classical paintings. Mostly classical sculptures like I love going to like Radius Museum or or seeing you know like? The News on all of these they PC's. Of Of Marble. So. Okay, so it's codeshare is preservation. You know of of the body if I come say. I think I. Keep in my mind. These images of like how you know this is corporate housing. But then when I am making my own work. Is Not like a think about those postseason, but. Thing is again. Some kind of Cathartic way has some kind of like. I star. Posing and the moment I do the photographs I feel. Relief in my body is just somehow like is really Cathartic way, so it's not like I. Don't have anything ready. Because obviously you know like sometimes I. Try to find. Yes I say like maybe classic Postures. But but I well, I found like. What's my buddy wants at the time? And I feel okay. You know if I if I feel like, sit down if I feel like standing up I. Let Myself Go. It's not like Ian though half any. Guidance. Yeah I follow my lead them. But that that's beautiful and do when you have like this, so it's a photo shoot, which almost seems like? Less like trump's to. You'll just take him over. That might be taken over by package of news that can be done into it, and you don't plan. Your move moves to just find your way through and like you said defined rhythm as a solitary experience. Do you have lack assistance or other people around? Do while still doing that? Say Do that or do just as you on both sides of the Lens in the studio. Creating this work. I'm I. Often have are people who helped me and I'm so grateful. Light really. Thanks, everybody who has helped me in the studio because. It is so hard to balance all these objects by yourself and having to press the shutter. Is often you know like It is really nice to have someone there with you. But in many ways you know because. It is Is it. I like to have people who is like personally intimate with me as well. I often feel like I meet around me. That understand my words a nice going to understand me. Lying what I'm doing! So yeah I I do have. People helping me because I realized as your friends. I've never asked his I'm because the images quite solitary. I've just imagined you own your own somehow. impossibly gun from the fragile Al Pose Holding these fragile things and complex positions, and then suddenly leaping up. Taking the. Assad. How does she do it? She's amazing, but it's like you say it's like there has to be people you trust around you who are doing some of the technical stuff, but there are also witnessing the relationship. Let's evolving. With yourself, and so now I'm thinking now is to know about the process of your work a bit more. What spin yourself emotional experience of the pandemic. Have you been able to draw on? Not just your creativity, but by approach of. Finding a rhythm, not enforcing rhythm on yourself. How slat helped toll? In. Dealing with the the unknown. steelite trying to. To find out like how even feel in this period. At first. I Trust Eve will be only lag. Nah We would like a month maybe. Longer but not really. So I didn't even. Start creating anything like it was kind of like. An enforced videoed. Oh. Late just being at home, so. It's not like can add TV D.. O. Inspiration is just GONNA come because I am not working like. Other thing for me works that way, not because I have. All of these like free weeks Saturday I'M GONNA. Make a masterpiece leg east even often when. I am BC when you know videos of lie heavy like word. When silently I found that I need to create the most and I think because say scape for my mind to create art. And now because I have all of these time available every. Time I. Don't know I, just I. Find, it really difficult to. Properly focused on and make something. So. I think I have been trying to. Be really responsible in a sense of. Okay you know. I am not going to leave as I used to leave before the pandemic because that's the whole point. that. Since supposed to feel the same way as before or the wise. We are not doing things right. so I think this has been. A might add of. That I into. s still make my own work like in. I'm. Even looking archives on the inter- night till to keep inspired myself, but. Being gentle with myself and thinking well, if I'm not finding the three men to make. It took. The? Let's really mature because I think people responded very differently. Some people making law. 'cause that fails a support for them. And I think it's like three dislike. Of were that some constraints by himself. You know you're working. Go Daydream This that I'm the Newark as well. You seem to flower Shandra certain sort of pressure is quite good for you, but now let you save got open-ended time I'm that's not helping. But you'll reading some ready curious to know what you're reading. So. I am reading the story of pain. And I think is quite fascinating like to see. I I love the title because. Now called the story of pain because pain can be dated. And I absolutely love the fact that you know is a human experience. And even everybody feels pain differently. Manasseh how other people react to pain? As well like a very different. ways. Sill at the moment on. I was trying to see if I call. Make some kind of parade. About pain. but I am there. I just don't know he's GonNa? Come or ice coming back here. And what was it that really attracted you to the apart from the fact that it's not a history? It's a story which makes it sounds like there's multiple experiences. Why did you fail that? You need to be a? Why did you feel you needed to read that book? I guess he came up after conversation with another artist and live way of. We were both in the same boat of. Item feel like creating now like I. Don't know how I like an talking about. I guess it is when you have lost someone in your life like I lost my mom. When I was quite young, so. I just think. It is then when you realize. The pain! That means to. Lose, this. On now that we are in this pandemic. things feel like. The people who is not taking the precursors that they still it may be because they didn't lose their loved ones. I think. Thinking about all of the, and. Watching US welcome documentaries about you know they black black play, and if past pandemics everything. I I so something that. Pain transform you and Bain transform societies and paint transform humans, and because I am in this loop about transformation I feel. He we on bow, lay in this moment of uncertainty and pain, and I want to know how the pain is going to transform us the same way. I felt transformation. Loosen my mother. How always society transforming I'm how you know. We are going to come out of this if excess. I just want to get the book as soon as we get off this interview. I'M GONNA. Be Looking for on long during big Old Burgess thing I. I think that about the pain being transformative. Because I was talking with my mom, she's nine to online she's. She's lived through the Second World War. She's quite stoical I was talking with him wondering when these incredible pressurizing situations. Why disarm paypal seem to be. Afflicted with the most awful trauma and trauma, especially like PTSD IN COMPLEX PTSD, it's like stock record. It goes round and round round, and other people seem to feel quite stoical. And that was like there seemed to be like a fork in the road between. Different experiences, and then I then I thought was the by intergenerational trauma when. Generations have got the. Freedom to even begin to explore their pain. So they push it down and they carry on. Keep calm and carry on something, and then the next generation, the generation of that other people to express the full extent. What's happened? I mean that's a complex so. Discussion because it can't really be measured than there is something about intergenerational drum being real thing. But. As far as just add in what you're saying about the Trans formative quality of pain which egner. Has Everything you know it's sadness, but it also has optimism at has. Sold about creating new meaning and living differently. So thank you for the answer I've got one more question. And Desperate HOUSEMAN PEOPLE I've. Thought about a world or question, asking them to respond to win whatever way and I've done a bit of a you of just use the intuitively. I've just been writing down the. So the question for you is. Where is home? I think. Many places I think nowadays. A home is where I feel safe. Home is where item feel myself. And I think I half few homes nowadays. So I, feel that I have a home here in England. Because I feel at home at my house with my boyfriend and I feel like he made me feel at home and my friends around me. I feel at home. But then I have my home in a Spain, and that would always be my home so when I go back to my parents on my see my dad and my brother. is like a nevertheless. Then I don't remember you know. When did I leave like you know this is my home. I. Think Yeah I think yeah. I yeah at the end. You can't bill home. As long as you have your loved ones around. You know anywhere. Slow beautiful. Slash mice ONS Absolutely, love lay I think that's a really nice place to. End The interview that's. Tender. Soft place, but just say huge signed Q to Paloma. People can find you online. They can enjoy your work. The really comprehensive websites so people can say they can. Follow you on Instagram Social Megyn. They want something more current, but I definitely definitely recommend anybody. To go to your website, because work is absolutely outstanding. Airs I love your work. That's absolutely amazing. It's like. What you say, and then your talk about transmission, the your life has changed after Ucla new. Bring something entirely new. To the home. I, suppose. Whole Canon. All artists everywhere such thing as possible, but you just you're adding meaning on. It's also a beautiful. That's the album thing it's not only. Meaningful and a thought provoking unharmed opening beautiful to look at. So united to win Win Win I. Say I'm a fan anyway, so thank you so much. And huge hawks to you. Thank you so much. Now me was good food and thank you for only cost this and I hope I answered everything well, and if anyone has any question. I have my contact in my website so I'm always happy to. Answer more questions if anyone wants to know more of my word, or they would like to cooperate or any kind of. Information. So I. Keep saying. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. The wonderful music you can have by gaffe a Brian if you like the show, please subscribe this plenty of episodes. Listen to pass the good news stable.

US Paloma Kandara PTSD Albert Frederick Obata Eve Naomi Watterson Radius Museum Basil Al Pose Khartoum Warren Tila fatility Spain trump Canon Ian Assad
Episode 92: They Call Us Pandemic Parents

They Call Us Bruce

1:06:55 hr | 6 months ago

Episode 92: They Call Us Pandemic Parents

"Hello and welcome to another edition of they. Call US Bruce unfiltered conversation about what's happening a nation America. I'm Phil You and I'm Jeff Yang and here we are on What is This Day? Ten of lock down here in southern US. Check forever But we are still bringing you the content you seek corona centered content Of US on lockdown We are delighted to be broadcasting here tonight with two a two amazing people friends of ours. Friends the PODCASTS. Or friends in law is okay We'd like to welcome to the show Steven Bianco who is the CO founder of debt ventures Which is fantastic parenting resource and who has actually done some analysis of what? It's like to be a dad Through this era of outbreak and locked down and with Stephen. We also have Theresa Kim Yang. Who IS SPOUSE PARTNER Better half to our old friend. Our good friend jean-louis Yang and also honestly probably one of the most organized on top of it and just generally exemplary role models for parents this crisis that we have had the chance to be shared. The show is to be here I wanted to add. I was kind of inspired to well. First of all four of us here are parents so We're we're kind of dealing with this in our own way that you know and and you know we see in social to how all different people are kind of dealing with this with this lockdown in their own way and but parents I think have sort of are dealing with this very have to go through an added layer of anxiety and stress and coping. You know so I thought he could I to get together like this and You know I've been seeing a lot of resources online of of you know a lot of it. There is no one thing I've learned. There is no one-size-fits-all kind of Wait apparent through a a pandemic but I was inspired to put this together because Stephen I saw dead ventures. You'd written early on actually about a week back your this article really a great article that was called the seven unexpected stages of being stuck home with kids because of the corona virus and it really got a lot of gave me a lot of perspective and was very valuable. Theresa Gene. Who's been on? That was on the podcast. A couple episodes back he shared on twitter. This chart that you had made This this Of the schedule for for your family for your four kids the daily schedule and then also there was this I guess there's a record of a discussion that you had had with their kids About home schooling. Which I thought was like so awesome and I was like I was told this by to invite you to be on the podcast. Maybe we can. I talk a Stephen. You could talk a little bit Data ventures first of all Which I know we started with one. You know a a certain kind of goal in mind but has changed quite a bit in the last two weeks because of this whole because of this whole ordeal for sure so yeah dad. Ventures started out really focused on helping parents find fun things to do and at first that was really like events and places to go out of the House and it's always sort of been in remind. Hey let's let's add on activities to do at home but we thought Oh. Yeah that'll be like way down the road A but as as things started to like really increase we realized Oh wow Like if events shutdown what are we GONNA do? And how are we going to address that? And it's like. Oh you know that idea about activities at home. Let's bring bring that in sooner and so and so a few weeks ago started to really dive in more into like activities for for families to do at home and where I started off was reaching out to a friend of mine who's in Hong Kong and I had seen on like instagram back in early February that she had posted that she was like home. Schooling her kids and so i. I left a comment on her post. Like oh your home schooling. And she's like yeah Because of Colonel Virus schools are closed like until April like for three months and I was like Whoa. I had no idea that like things. Were sort of getting to that point that that could even happen. And so when things started to really escalate here I thought about her and and thought and reached out to her and realize well the stuff that was happening in Hong Kong and then also she had cousins in Italy and she was telling me about their situation was like Whoa. That can happen here. And it's really were just like a few weeks behind what they're experiencing over there and Yeah I read the article in. I was like that. It was very sobering actually because You know I was like Oh. Wow we are really. This is our yeah. This is our future you know not just not just two to three weeks. It's two to three months the first line the article and we're like that was the first punched in the gut that like. Oh this is This is happening you know. Can we get a little backdrop on what your parenting situation is Casino article itself kind of walk through these seven stages of dealing with you know being second with kids. How old are your kids? And what is the situation with you and your spouse? I mean you imply that you both work at home or working from home right lane. And we all are but Give us give us a little bit of the backdrop here. Yeah so we've got My wife and I we have three kids. So the oldest two are girls. One is nine. She's in third grade. The second one is seven. She's in second grade and we have a a three year old boy and so My wife is Is working from home. She's therapist And then I'm also working from home and so we're we're yeah we're we're dealing and as everybody is on a day to day basis and like who's doing what when you know in like our kids doing and what do they need and really like the oldest older two kids are certainly more sort of self sufficient But you know the three year old just needs way more attention and we're trying to balance You know like not just having them have a ton of screen time and just defaulting to that and so putting some structure into the day and and being present with them and so it's Yeah I mean it's certainly like an ongoing struggle but But that's yeah a little bit of our setup. Can I say that the pictures that go along with the articles suggest that your home is a a quite? It'll in which are remarkably behaved at all times. There's not a mess. Insight curled up with their toys being very quiet and well mannered to one another and occasionally doing festival. Things like cuddling you from your shoulders. That doesn't annoy you whatsoever. Is this actually real? Life at the detector householder carried it through. I would say yeah I would say that it's like a mix it's a mix of Certainly hey here's some like you know good good home home quiet moments but I would say that like by and large my wife and I are pretty laid back people and our kids are fairly calm and not like to crazy so yeah I would say things are are good. I'm glad that we don't have like too much craziness to deal with because there's plenty of that already going on your house. I mean my kids are much older right. I've got of course who is Sixteen and Schuyler who is twelve and we're just old enough so that they have a certain amount of of and both boys right around constant background rivalry slash tension You know they make noise. Because that's what boys do these boys Too Old to give Benadryl to drinking wine all day. We're all right so I'm the bad one but you know looking at these seven stages it's kind of structured around lake. You know the the the ways in which you have progressed from. Oh my gosh. It has an unseen unforeseen applications for everybody. Let's just do anything? We want to to try to find ways to kind of build instructor and and the balance things of otherwise might seem hard to balance and then finally to maybe figure out ways to relax even in the face of things not being relaxing To the point where you can get to a normal point right. That's family justin periods right and and again. This was. Yeah I mean this was. This was sort of my interpretation of talking to a couple of parents and from researching rum just the experience of again of other parents primarily in Hong Kong in Italy. And and so it just it it. Yeah it really just jumped out at me when when when my friend Nanny in Hong Kong was like we started off and it was all vacation mode and then and then we tried to switch to get the kids to really focus more on studies and academics and that was so hard because they were so used to vacation mode and and then it's like oh like describing her kids like when they would get some outside time as like these like caged animals that were let loose and they were just like so excited to be running around and you can you can imagine in Hong Kong Right. Like how little like greenspace. There isn't just like parks and things like that so it just became like really clear to me that like overtime that there were these distinct stages and then. I talked to this This this dad in Milan and heard some of his experience. And and Italy's really maybe just like two two weeks ahead of us in terms of how this is playing out like Hong Kong has really got really took really proactive steps early on that has really slowed down the outbreak over there and so Italy's probably more comparable to what we should expect here. And but his what he was describing in terms of screen time and vacation mode and some of this was very similar to to to to my friend in Hong Kong. And so it just was like. Wow this is a this is pretty eye opening how you can almost predict what's going to happen here based on how this is played out elsewhere Teresa speaking of laying down structure early on first of all. Maybe you can talk about your family situation. What's going on at home and you know like the breakdown the stats of your family. I guess so I I also have a sixteen year old boy and then twelve year. Old Girl a ten year old girl and a seven year old girl. So we're kind of all over in terms of Asia Gaps but It's been nice that the two older ones are pretty independent The one our number three is pretty independent. She has occasional question but the youngest one. I pretty much have to sit with her. When is doing her work but we are school closed on a Thursday and we knew that we were going to start school on Monday With distance. Learning and so Having home-schooled our kids for one year before a while ago I knew that this would bring up some issues for our kids and so The first weekend we were home I sat them all down and I asked them. You know what? Let's stresses you out. Or what could possibly stress you out about home schooling and being at home all together and that discussion led to that first list of The stressors that we would expect are we didn't we wanted to avoid in home schooling and As a classroom detri- used to ask the students What would make you most successful and from there come up with a set of classroom rules together with the kids that they would all sign off on. And we would have I mean the idea's to get buy in from her student so that you're not constantly yelling at them to follow your thinking. I WANNA I. We went from the stressors. To how can we be able to care for each other so that we don't become stressors for each other and so that was basically like our norms or expectations at home that Voice that we can care for each family member So that we don't stress each other out being in close quarters and and indefinitely at this point and so We saw I sure. Can we share some of these since gene of course share them all on twitter over some of the things? I don't know which of the various kids actually shared. What was all four kids or was it just actually shared there so the first one was what stressed me out when mommy yells. Yes that's all four kids not by the way I I tweeted gene. I'm like worse when daddy yells and he was like he's like they're not scared. Dab yells only Yeltsin in overhead thought bubbles so so I mean but you know loud noises. He crying when OBI helps me when people don't clean up after themselves and people fight. Bossy people when people waste time. When I can't find something I need because stressors right And then the care for things like we can listen. We can talk with spot respectfully in front of people we can look for help and other places try. I can clean up before von fights. Mind Your Business. Try to understand each other and we can read it. Draw and Make things I guess when we are board which is Great So knowing these things How how does that turn into? I guess the schedule the end of actually creating for the kids We the schedule about we have Is very similar to our schedule in the summertime Because again the kids are at home and we want to emphasize that we need to get our work done before we play. And so that that's basically the principle of that struck schedule us to get all your work done in the morning so you can play in the afternoon and if you don't get all your work done in the morning then you're going to you know you're going to shorten your free time. And so the kids have been really motivated to try to get all their work done in before lunch But we have made some adjustments as we've gone on So for example in the morning I really wanted to do a check in with the kids because I think there are things that are going on in their heads they're not always voicing and so I start off by the senator dumb in the beginning but it's actually I'll just share. I think they go around the table and they share affirmations of each other and this is something that I did as volleyball coach after a game. I gathered all the kids. And you know they're having their snacks. But we're still huddled and we're just going over affirmations for each team member because I wanted them to see that. Each team member contributed to our game and the outcome of that game. And so instead of you know putting blame on somebody for not playing. Well wanted them to keep their eyes on the positive and over time they just work towards that positive and really Look forward to that time to gather at the end and really share out there. What they saw each other team members do and so I kind of wanted that idea to play out in our family In in the beginning they're kind of awkward about it but it's funny how you know in the course of our first week at home. They've really cherished what each other have said about them. And it's almost like they want it to happen again. The next and so they sort of work to build that relationship. I'm seeing slowly happen And there's a lot less bickering. I feel like Because they want to be noticed for their good good deeds of the The other thing that we added In our morning prayer is to have the kids share out their prayer which which really ends up being a way for them to voice. Their concerns their worries and One of the things. I did this with my class. Also I didn't want the kids to be carrying around burdens throughout their day and so to share it in the morning I feel like it does. Lighten their low that they're carrying around emotionally and psychologically and so two Sur Cher out thought in the very beginning of the day kind of makes the rest of the day go smoother Does something else that we added a family meeting at the very beginning of our schedule So it's it's some structure but allow for flexibility To be able to gauge. Where the kids are and to be able to adapt to what? You're feeling that they might need as I think. Essential for this to really work for the long haul. That's amazing and I might add the fact that you actually have both experience as a teacher and a coach probably gives you a little bit of a leg up on this front but I wonder actually I mean how much of how much of what you experienced learned as an educator feels like it works as a parent and I'm going to ask actually that of Stephen to relative to your wife who you said was a is a therapist right greg. Do you feel like you feel like there's kind of almost seamless transfer of of knowledge from being a professional that works with you know which people as it were in this capacity versus The kind of rough and tumble of just being a parent. Yeah I I'll show I'll jump in so I the fact that my wife is therapist Has has has. I've learned a lot from that and Continue to so for me I. There's like a lot of Greater attention to the kid's feelings and the stressors and an understanding that and being a better communicator to them in ways that on my own I wouldn't think about. I would be maybe more afraid to talk about my worries and my fears With my kids but but through my wife able to better express myself To my kids I would say that. My Wife practices a lot of what she preaches insurance of of again that communication and that openness with the kids but then at the end of the day if like if it's just really getting on her nerves you know like she's Cuban like therapist the mom it just becomes like man. This kid's so annoying. I can't deal in right now. So that professionals who could only take you so far Truth Avenue. I I do feel like when I went from the classroom into home schooling. I was expecting homeschooling to be exactly like classroom teaching and and so we even even made them wear uniforms and I had a room designated as the classroom and we put up. You know an alphabet chart and you know this is i. I try to make it. So that are home-schooling space was separate from the rest of our house and that are home-schooling time with separate from our family time but what I've learned that first time through home schooling aside it. I mean your family. Life is the highest priority. You have to kind of really assess what's going on with the family before you can even start schooling and so So yeah that was my first hard lesson in home. Schooling is that you know schooling at home is nothing like schooling in the classroom. And even now as I coached teachers. That's the number one thing I'm telling them is that you cannot expect school to be from eight to three every day because these parents were home with the kids. They're trying to get work done to and We're not sitting next door. Kids the whole time and It's not at all like the classroom. And and the whole time were were sitting in. You know watching these things on the news and trying to evaluate. What's going to happen to our families? And you know we're starting to hear how it's affecting our family is in the other countries and and so the kids are dealing with a lot more emotionally that will affect how they're going to be learning and so trying to make that clear to the school is essential also is to keep communicating with our teachers and our administrators as they try to learn the best way to go about with distance. Learning is I think he yes just to kind of build off of that. I think the There is this sort of expectation. Like Oh yeah this is. This'll be just like it. How it is in the summer or this'll be like things are normal. It's like a global pandemic is not normal this is this is incredibly incredibly stressful on. You Know Uncertain Times that we're in with the news just gets like so overwhelming and so scary an so stressful so I think that Yeah it's it's it's really everybody's thinking Oh yeah things are okay and like but but Yeah there's there's a lot that our kids are picking up on Because this is this is just a very serious global crisis I do appreciate homosexuals are trying to bring you know their normal routines into the distance learning but but at the same time as I've been saying is it's important to provide structure but at the same time to be expecting that you need to be super flexible To really be able to adapt to changing needs. You know I mean seriously honestly we could just sit back. Let you guys talk one thing. I think you mentioned that I wanted to bring up is sort of larger Consideration especially as this extends around emotional and Mental Health. And not just you know for kids but for parents right. I mean we're we're buckling down now now for weeks of this but months and what seems like something that we can you know handle pretty effectively maybe in the next week or so gets much harder as time goes on and especially as people around. Us start coming down with illness. And I've actually now formally hit the point where a close to a dozen people that I know directly are are infected are are you know I mean? I don't even know how to frame right day. They're positive for karnal virus. Some have symptoms. Some do not one is actually in very very serious crisis right now And that's a David Latte actually outer of above law He's actually intimated in and in critical condition and were all thinking and praying for him but as people we know and love faces this illness. It's GonNa be really hard to explain this to the kids And I'm kind of curious how you guys have thought through that conversation and the best ways to to bring it forward. I mean are we. We pray together every morning and every night and it's been a worry concerned that's brought up every morning and every evening but We try to shield as much as we can then news And so far we haven't had direct family and friends the infected There yeah so we haven't had that yet and we haven't really discussed we're going to do once they become sick But we to try to look at the positive and so we end the day thinking about what we're thankful for so that we can keep our eyes on. You know the good that's happening around us So yeah we haven't really talked about what will happen when friends and family get. Yeah for for us again I guess my wife has been thinking about it a lot lately just again seeing how how things are playing out in Italy and and this one this one dad who I spoke to I guess he was in. He was in Milan and so northern Italy. That was the part. That really is where it was hit hardest. I and And when I spoke to him their schools have been closed for about three weeks and he said that There was a sense of it being like a war zone where he was that there. Were these curfews this restricted movement. But but most of all there was this sense of death being very present. And you know as as the fatalities increase It's just becomes. Yeah like very very very anxiety producing and and you can't. You can't relax With that in that environment and so So my wife and I have been just sort of like very aware that that is around the corner for us and she's been starting to reach out to some of her therapist trends to think about like how we can start to put some put some content together around how to how to help parents deal with addressing grief and loss because Just at the rate at which things are are cases are being reported. And if you take you know. A certain percentage as a fatality rate. Right like the death rate the the debt will pile up. And that's something that we have to be prepared for is is how to how to deal with deal with that with our kids. Thanks for sharing that guys. I think this is a good time for us to take a short break but When we return we'll do our signature segment the good the bad and the WTO F so stick around right back But we're still here. We're going strong. It's an exciting time in Asian American movies. Tv shows books and music reflecting us than ever but all these represent just a small slice of Asian American cultural experiences. So what do we do Tell more slices Asian Americana is a show that explores these slices of distinctly Asian American culture and history. We've talked about how Chinese Americans built California Sacramento Delta. The Art Scene Turns Gallery institution giant robot. A play that explores the lost Cambodian pop music of the Sixties and Seventies. And of course Boba just to name a few stories you can find Asian Americana at Asian Americana Dot com or on your podcast APP. And we're back all right on the second. Half of the call US Bruce. This is where we do our signature segment the good the bad and the WF Jeff Yang which you please lay down the rules of engagement. I will so those guys are frequent listeners. Know that this is our signature segment. It is a segment that we treat us kind of a roundtable discussing a single subject three ways. The first is you know the positive optimistic. The hopeful and good about that particular thing The second is the dark negative the loathsome and repugnant. Talk about whatever that topic is the third is well. You know it's it's a question. It's the puzzle time when we Riddle ourselves as to what we still do not understand what we still don't get about what is going on with that particular topic and given the discussion we've been having. We thought that might be good for us to do the good the bad and the Doug. Cf of being a parenting under lockdown a parenting our way through a pandemic and You know we usually give our guests the first and last ups for this So between the two of you the Theresa or Stephen Which Guys WanNa talk about the good the actual good about parenting in corona time and if you cannot select yourselves we will arbitrarily slick among you. I have loved how Our family has been able to quickly adopt US We've had much more time to be with each other and just spend time together. Luckily so far there hasn't been a whole lot of fighting and titling but Yeah so it's just been really nice to be able to eat three meals together and really nice prevails for actually part of our Ishmael. Is a cooking rotating schedule so the kids actually voted in breakfasts and lunches and I make all the dinners. Oh so that really. Yeah wow so you really taken on their responsibilities even the youngest really so the youngest actually making breakfast and lunch annexation. Well so I don't know if you saw that list for my son. Because she was stressing out she really wanted to make breakfast to it was her turn but she didn't know what to make. And so we all sat down and we start brainstorming. What she could make for breakfast and that's a list that is going to probably be permanent or kitchen wall reads menu. The kids are always hungry when they walk into the got to walk out. That was Cooking schedule they've been so On top of that they'll be watching the clock to make sure they're ready to start cooking when it's almost time for lunch and that's been really nice. What our sample dishes that The youngest is actually picking just like Ron. I mean they're she's toasting bagels. She knows how to scramble eggs She knows how to make smoothies She hasn't done this one just helping cereal. But that that was an option yogurt I think that's about it actually stick oppressive. I write Stephen. Give us your your positive yeah I think the What's been cool for me. Is the creativity that comes out when we're spending all our time together and aren't leaving our house and so in examples like my kids were Took out this. You Know Radio Flyer Wagon and were writing it around in the backyard and they were kind of going down the driveway and they said Tad we wanna like. It's not going fast enough and and I was like. Oh you know what this is like. It's like do you remember the Winter Olympics. Like Oh yeah this is like bobsledding and so I showed them how to like. Get a running start and then jump into the wagon and then go down the driveway. I filled it was awesome at. They're like it. Looks like they're bobsledding our backyard. And it's like wow. This is really cool. We would never would've would've like come up with backyard bobsledding if we weren't spending all their time in the backyard So that's really cool and then also just like selfishly using time we have together to teach them important things like how do the MC hammer dance and Like an telling them like seeing the praises of of new kids on the block. Which was the first concert. I went to you as a kid so stuff like that. So you know homeschooling like wow all right phil you WanNa take the positive side. Yeah well honestly this I mean this is this whole global. Pandemic outbreak of a deadly virus is the timing coincides with around the time where I am now kind of I. My kid is three and a half now going through the these feelings of like. Oh my gosh. She used to be so small and now she's in. I mean she's like so big. And so. So you know she so articulate and going through these really big leaps in growth and and And learning and and I I happen to going to being a little bit wistful about in looking at paid like Pictures of her even from a year ago. Wow like she grew so much you know and And I and I know and I. It's I'm realizing her. Her Little Ness and her serve that baby. That sort of you know the past three years like that's slipping away like an you know she's getting older and so now that we're spending twenty four hours together. I do get to experience at all because I do have to mention the first two years of her life like I was stay at home dad for her so we spent a lot of time together and in which she started going to daycare. I was well welcomed the break but now she's back here doing this all day long at the very least we get to at least I could just spend that time as hard as you know we'll get in the bad but As hard as it is I do realize like well. It's that little we get now. This is providing us with that little extra time to spend like all day together. I guess I know this spinal the stress at least the time spent. Hopefully I'll look fondly on it. You know I mean yeah you know. I think that it actually was one of the things which I relish most about my well certainly for Hudson I happened to be at home for a certain period of his very young life and that is something you never get back right. I mean there's there's a certain you know it's challenging difficult but beautiful and irreplaceable. And you know for the next week or so you're GonNa love it fell and then off so for me. It's interesting because I mean I love in a lot of ways I do love. You know the time spent with the kids. You know Face constantly all but actually the thing which is interesting is because my parents who are in their in their early eighties are also on a particular lockdown. You know they you know we're not letting them leave the house at all even before the formal Shelter in place order. Came Down New York. I said no leaving the house whatsoever not even go to church. You know it was very hard Just stay at home but the interesting thing is to enforce that you know we've been having Facetime chats on a regular basis and. I'm actually finding that you know me. And the kids are spending more time talking to their grandparents than they might have otherwise you know when we all have much more active including my parents. They're very active people. They they got all the time they have friends. They travel and you know when I actually try to reach after them half the time. They're like on Missouri. Now call you back later and then they don't come back now. They're always at home and they're always eager to talk to me and talk to the kids and it's kind of a you know a weird little silver lining blessing. I mean again. It's one of those things that will get hard over time I mean we're sending them delivery of of of groceries and and so forth and and meals and sometimes trying to. We're trying to arrange some sort of like family you know. Coast to coast potluck kind of thing where you eat together on facetime. But it's hard because of course they are three hours. Think with us so it's nevertheless been being a hidden blessing in all of this and with that Let's let's jump into the next round the bad I mean. There's so much that we could talk. But that's bad so let's talk about something that's bad but unexpected. I mean we know that this is a gigantic crisis. And we're all living through this and it's going to be something that will shape our our children's lives like like nothing that I think shaved US growing up. You know not nine eleven. Not You know not You know I don't know the Iraq War I mean. There's so many different things that that we can point to. But this is something a pothole you know so given that. Let's start with. Let's start with you Stephen What would you say is the The unexpected badly not the expected that thing things that did not realize is GonNa be rough and that is about this. I think I think for me. The unexpected bad is the is just the kind of lack of time and energy for myself lying the self care part of it and I think it's also easy to be more aware of it when you see people who are not parents just lamenting. Oh I don't know what else to watch right now. Like so that's a particularly Particularly upsetting to be personally but Yeah I think the I think that there's you know there's a lot to do with as a parent and always Being on and it just so happens that Yeah like with my work. I mean like a Lotta People's work. It's like we're just dealing with this new reality and so our jobs have changed and what we're working on is changed and and it's so there's a huge learning curve adjustment and people are freaking out and so Just taking the time to kind of stay sane and like today. I did a workout on on Youtube and I haven't done that in like five or six years and I really need to do this because it's like otherwise I'm not getting any exercise so Yeah I guess that just like that. Part is Is One that I'm still trying to kind of like getting adjusted to China trying to compensate for however I can. Wow I mean yeah definitely I feel like there's so much more time in so much less time at the same time so weird right Phil what about you? What's what's your unexpected that I think the bad is. I'm just I'm afraid you know what I mean. I'm scared and it's like this is their rapid before you know. This is a nightmare scenario. And like I wavered between. I think I don't know if I said this before but I wear between. It's going to be okay and like Oh my God like for do you know and I and I have serious. I go through conversations with my mind. Like what are we GONNA do? If like one of us get sick and like you know even the small place in the three of us here and and just it just just coping with this and then the added level of Afraid for my kid and her you know she's young and and like we've been shielding with like like what's actually happened. It's hard to explain what's actually happening. She just knows like people. You can get sick if you have germs and so we need to wash the germs away. You know But I can tell like she realizes something's going on because she hasn't been as he has a senior friends. She hasn't been to school so she hasn't seen her friends and she doesn't get to interact with other kids. You know that's you know it's it's It's second a toll on her. You know like today. I know we had this episode. Where she she broke down crying. 'cause we moved her stickers off the off off the window and a. I could tell it wasn't really about the stickers United States like this added like level of like what the fuck is going on. You know like you know so. Just wait til she's old enough to actually say that. Yeah Yeah and I. It broke my heart. You know what I mean and and I. I don't know what to how long this is going to go on. And like we're GONNA have to deal with that but yeah a lot of it is just me being like afraid of like of what you know of not knowing anything right now you know? Yeah yeah well I mean. I'm going to flip it over to you TREASA to talk about the bad on your side. I feel I feel like even if you find a bad you'll find a way to talk about it. That sounds as we're talking. You're just you're so good at that anyway. I don't know I was GonNa say I really must be Jim to and We've been walk after lunch And I mean it was an eye opener for me when we were when we were walking and My daughter yells out. Oh Mommy there's a person right there we go to walk across the street and get away and I don't want our kids to grow up being afraid of e around people and I I feel like especially for her being the youngest. This might be like scarring or you know. It might be a permanent thing almost to kind of hate being around people and you know we my husband and I talk a lot about how we don't want our kids to grow up like how they're growing up in Japan where you know they're so used to having everything come to them and that they don't socialize with real people anymore and We got to the point where we were. We were requiring my son to go to his junior prom but not. That's canceled my going to be happening. So what we're doing is almost accelerating what we're fearful of happening here and so. I don't know that's been my biggest worry Even after this is all over I worry about the permanent effects on our kids. Yeah I mean you know that that lingering sense that you know. You can't turn back time. You can't erase things. You Memories Memories. It's going to be rough because we're not just parenting for now. Obviously parenting for whatever it kids end up being a decade from now I mean I. Maybe that's my my bad to the sort of sense of of anxiety that as we stretch into months as A lot of these things build up that I will have run out of capacity and resources right to accommodate to answer things to accommodate things right. I I mean the the cancellations talking about you know I. I know that You're someone's GonNa take the sat's right My mind also That's sixteen years old and you know you don't know the degree to which this lost half year quarter year have ones ends up. Being has a permanent impact on our kids and I've I'm sort of already at that point now where at least Hudson doesn't always turn to me and say you have an answer for this. You know. Teenagers don't believe that anymore right but my younger one definitely. You know. There's still sandwich that believes that a parent can fix things is still there and I think that at some point in the next three four months I may be at that point where I I will simply have to say it not just. I don't know the answer but I don't know any answers anymore and that really scares me. It is the Downer. One the bad. I'm sorry guys so I'm GonNa flip around and talk about Goatee F. And and then I'll turn it over to fill and then we'll we'll have you guys Sign off for us but for you know so the WF for me is. I obviously have a pretty unique view on the world of Shall we say entertainment creativity? Production of stuff right both as somebody who has been a you know a longtime observer and critic of Hollywood movies and Television and now of course with an a son Who has been on television show for six seasons and Also just generally being kind of Jason to a lot of the stuff and you know knowing that so much of what we take for granted here in Los Angeles especially Is is has ground to a halt and nobody knows what's going to happen with that right So my my WCs about. This is a little bit like we've gotten so almost entitled an indulgent about peak. Tv in particular right and about bigger and bigger movies happening all the time. All that is going to stop. Production is done for four months and nobody knows what happens when things turned back on again. But there's probably GONNA be a gap a window which will have SCR kind of like fresh screen entertainment if you will and in a in a world or screen time has become such a big part of our lives. I'm just wondering what kind of weird content apocalypse we're going to face With all this. And whether or not the last thing which we've kind of turned to as like a vaccination against loneliness and boredom is is going to be on running on empty just time. We could use that sort of escapism. You know so. That's a question for me and hopefully it's one that we don't end up having to face 'cause I don't know what I'll do that shows. Just that's all right So Phil What about you? What's what's your about parenting curve and So I am so I was already kind of a Germaphobe. Now it's gone to extreme levels right just like just easing behavior. We'll go outside to just run a quick check the mail mailboxes a couple of paces down the way and and Al Comeback and distribute naked. Like you know like burn your Burma close and then insane handwashing and then like it's all the handwashing you know like. Oh my Gosh And then how do we impart that this idea to my kid who just like It's already getting really like kind of like not wanting to go to the bathroom because she has to salt in washing your hands. You know like we've had a couple of accidents the last couple of days and I. I suspect it's because she's resistant to go to the bathroom. Because the handwashing. But it's like I don't know I you know like the handwashing is is adequate. I mean like obviously there's a certain level of control that needs to happen but now I feel like it's Is just like so excessive and so but I guess this is what saving our lives right. I don't know so But yeah like that. The hand washing the and and sort of keep trying to keep things sterile is like a weird like crazy making game. Now you know in our household so That and then we have a toddler. It's like trying to trying to account for that. Chaos in trying to keep things sterile is like it's it's just. It's that's also stressful. It's crazy making yeah justice overlaying two things on each other in a way. Does it feel to extend that. You know right before all this hit those like a spate of movies like a bird box or whatever you know where it's like oh my gosh. World's changed forever and now we can't like do certain things we always used to do you. Know it's like that level of apocalyptic behavior and all the the new rituals around. It's almost like kind of Hollywood or or destiny was warning us that something was about to come. You know not quite the Zombie Apocalypse. Or whatever but you know it's like I think to myself all the things which I have now begun to do to your point. Fill that I never thought of before from you. Know wearing masks going outstanding six feet away from people you know again compulsive sanitizing and hand washing And even like one of the things I've actually been doing. Weirdly enough has been sitting car or even just driving around the block wants just to with the excuse in some ways to keep the battery from dying but also because it's like it feels like going outside in a weird way and it feels like having that piece that you can't get when you're in a room in a house full of three other people. I don't know how much this is going to end up. Being just a part of the way we do things forever or Unlearn whether it'll just be erased or something like is the is the world different forever or is this just for now. I don't know I'm never gonNA shake everyone's hand stop licking you. Hello Lick across the face. Okay so Teresa what is your W T F The unexpected or maybe expected Dumpty F of turn to a A pandemic I. We were just having this conversation today. About how you know. Our kids are on a screen all day every day for school. And we don't allow them to be on a screen during the week because we want them to be creative and be makers of their art and so But now that their on screen for school on the weekends when we don't have that Roy anymore they're still on a screen and you're watching shows movies all day And so we were talking about how we need to get off a screen to just kind of claim. Are Mike Brains? So I kind of wanted to go and start another line of you. Know kind of what he was saying earlier. Having a list of things to do you know where it doesn't involve a screen. I actually sat my nephew down on on zoom when he was actually hoping they start that list and he came up with a long list and he. You know he's nine year old came up with a good lesson quitting like learning how to do a hands down without touching the wall. And you're Rubik's cube you know solving Rubik's Cube and then there's around things but it just I feel like I really want the kids to be unplugged for at least part of every day It's Kinda sad we can't even go through a day today. I said just three hours can not be honest. Gained three hours and they kiss didn't know what to do with themselves and are kind of frantic. Like I don't know what to do. What can we do So yeah that's been my I you know I gotta figure this out Theresa. I think your kids are going to be okay. I think that is true. I do I do. I do to make another list though. I'm excited All right well Stephen. Take US home. What is your dubs. Yes might for me. I went Yesterday to To pick up some food for my parents and my parents like you jaffer in the early eighties but they live. They live locally so Wanted to give them some some fruits and vegetables. There's a farmer's market near me and And so I went and as I was at the farmer's market and then Driving to my parents place I was like I can't even tell that there's less people out like it feels like a normal Saturday in terms of the amount of cars that are on the street. And I'm like what is going on here like this is this is just shocking to me like when you see pictures online of places that are isolated but then you step out and now granted. I was in my car. I was going to help my parents out with this. But like it's just like what's going on people you gotta stay home. I don't think everybody's really getting the picture here. And this isn't like people are on spring break or something right. This is just like You know around. L. A. and so it was It was just like yeah very very W T F at its fullest and And so just wanting to see people really wake up and take more seriously and stay home. The weirdest thing is they were all actually headed to parents as parents. Yeah I mean I gotta say it's like I The I have obviously been driving other than around the block. since the lockdown but The last days before the lockdown did feel like the highways were dead zone. You know and I don't know what it's like now but my my assumption. My guess is that like I mean. We are supposed to be at home. I I don't know. Is there a penalty for not being home right now? Or is it. I don't think I think there is in theory. There is a penalty. But it's it's totally unenforceable. Well I just heard San Jose will start enforcing tomorrow. Ohau witless citations. Oh Wow wow. Yeah well if you're hosting a barbecue at the park or something but yeah you should get a barbecue. Cancel all right. I guess that tie that takes we've got on there right. No and yeah first of all. Thank you so much Stephen and Theresa for taking the time out and also sharing your perspectives. And everything like that. It's been You know this is. This is really hard. And it's it's made easier by you. Know a staggered other and sharing. And all that you know absolutely thanks. Yeah no special props to you theresa. This is your inaugural podcasts experience. When I asked Jean if you'd be willing to come on he was like he said he said that he convince you by saying that That it would help people and use it. You said yes. I appreciate that a lot. And he and he said that he would take over parenting duties tonight. So so you also gotTA shout out Jeans Book. That came out this past week dragon hoops. Which Theresa you you are in so if you WANNA see Theresa. Yeah if you want to see Teresa in Comic Book Form Checkout Dragon Hoops. It's great book. Really say all those things off the book makes you sound very wise very very wise so the book is accurate. Theresa is there. Do you have any kind of social media presence that you'd like to share if you that's okay my sister and I just started a company called graphic campus and basically we organize a book a civil for Young Authors in the San Jose Area and we were coaching for writing teachers. So that's at were. We're going to be launching Our Virtual Book Festival because we had to cancel. Our Lot are live. Want so So that's GonNa be in May and Gene is partnering with US and helping US get some videos out to writing teachers that they could use right away in their classrooms because a lot of requests unheard a lot of Stressed out teachers trying to figure out what to do with writing especially and so we'll have those available this week also in work people find that. Oh it's on our facebook page for graphic campus It also be linked to genes facebook. Page Great Stephen Wwco Working People find you yeah they can check out dad ventures that Hello DAD VENTURES DOT COM and on facebook instagram twitter and We're going to be putting out a lot more resources in the coming weeks on activities for families to do at home Both activities for families to do together as well as activities for kids to do alone because parents need time to have their kids doing stuff As well as options that don't involve a screen So working on on putting that all together right now cool Jeff Yang. We're GONNA be do huddled at home for me. I don't know why I original spin on twitter and other places but mostly twitter's And Phil how about yourself? How can people find? You could find me Have dead on the couch watching episode of Dagua Stephens by me at angry Asian man in angry Asian man dot com. Well that does it for this episode of the calls. Bruce you can find they call us Bruce. At they cost Bruce on twitter facebook instagram et CETERA. Please find on apple podcasts. And give us a rating or review. It would really help us out. Helps people find the show I hope everyone out there is staying at home staying healthy Washing hands and just supportive another. This time piece. You've been listening to they. Call US Bruce with Jeff Yang and Phil You our theme music is by Carroll One. Our producer is Nick Song they call us. Bruce's a member of the POTLUCK podcast collective featuring unique voices and stories from the Asian American community. Find out more at podcasts hotline Dot Com and thanks for listening.

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Episode 76: They Call Us Abominable

They Call Us Bruce

36:59 min | 1 year ago

Episode 76: They Call Us Abominable

"Move Hello and welcome to another edition of they call us. Bruce unfiltered conversation about what's happening happening in Asia America. I'm Phil. You and I'm Jeff Yang and we are here at the Office of netflix animation about to talk to a very special guest against was an old friend of mine and fills in front of the podcast. She is the Chief Officer of Pearl Studio a Global Animation Company headquartered in Shanghai and in Hollywood and also in New York and she is a an old uh not old a longtime friend of Mine Palin Shop Pay Lynn. Thank you so much for joining us on the PODCAST. My pleasure happy to be here. Well first of all I mean. You're you're slow. You swim here from New York right. I just ran from Shanghai China for money for the Shanghai premiere of the Self. Wow so the premiere of in in China Ray place the premier meeting life like the before the release you know celebration. I've actually been on the premier tour because we had a world premiere at the Toronto International Festival then we have the La Premiere last weekend and the asks we get we add the China premier recarpet carpets out the giants as the avarice and we should actually sort of name what the movie is. The movie is abominable. It is the first original foyer original or fully how how we define it exactly natively we developed. I guess it's the first original film produced by Pro Studio because our pirate carnation is rancher famer. We we were CO producers on three but obviously that film already had a existence of the first two installments originated factory Merck's and we just joined in for the third one so this is the first fully original them liberal studio is involved with and it also has the distinction of being the first time ever a modern day. Chinese family is featured in global admitted film and Ah this is kind of the remake of Pearl Studios right all the way back when US oriental leave the answer. I literally started. I said only w spitting I guess led plan was able to change their. I literally I pump twenty fifth the ODI W was was created with the idea that dreamworks and its the Chinese partner would be building works that were Chinese at heart and soul but global in focus right and complicated three was kind of like I just testing ground in some ways of whether that could be done at all but was okay so let's let's actually back up a little bit and talk about the journey to even get there right. Okay you start out in Hollywood of course Christians and rose through the ranks of being a development -secutive in nation right at Disney. Disney had some dealings what I would say. Perhaps the achievement while you're there that you know. Many of our listeners may be aware of is that you were. The chief developed exact behind. I was one of the developed executives that work-time couple but a champion for it and that was your first tone tone water in some ways of really kind of trying to figure out this whole thing about how to tell a story in this case with kind of Chinese look and feel and hopefully some heart but but very much still a Hollywood phil hopefully some heart but but very much still Hollywood film yes definitely it was one of the things that really drew me to you even going to be a part of Disney feature animation because I knew they were this story had been developed a very long time before I arrived live in kind of a got more into the production phase and I wanted to be part of that project and because I I was so excited that a story like that was being told but also of course wanted to participate and make sure it was being told in an authentic way. Can you talk about like some of the challenges of doing that because Mulan is a at least for you know for certain generation definitive like it's like they're their movie for a lot of Asia. Kids like this is like one of the first times they got themselves. In any kind of fashion you know as you know a wild story stories blonde is I I. I'm just wondering like considering it came out in ninety five ninety eight eight eight like what were the challenges of like like making that happen. I just yeah in that. C- considering Hollywood at that time yeah I mean I think that you know Disney all in on telling a Chinese story about telling Milan Alon. Actually Jeffrey Katzenberg's huge Fam- he he we're saying he has brought so much of China to Hollywood because he actually made the Journal club he made me lawn and he council Tanda. Those are all Kassenberg so you know he was kind of a champion of that when he was at Disney and but the landscape was so different back then you know I mean the number of Chinese Asian people even working in the industry. The number of of Asian people involved with Milan versus like an abominable for example was dramatically different. I remember at the time feeling like you know we we had right. Rita show the writer and she was Chinese. we had a few Chinese artists in leadership design positions but it was pretty not much that was it and there was a lot of desire to be authentic certainly and everyone's heart it was in the right place but I think they also felt like this is the Disney movies so we are Kinda princess and you know just talking and do you know what I mean like those kinds of things I mean don't get me wrong. I love the movie. I'm very proud of the movie but I think that you know where we are today. Versus where we are when Milan was made. I think when Milan was made I was just so grateful. They were making a story at all right so kind of like if we have to compromise some things along along the way just so that it exists like okay. I'm all in one kind of memorable thing thing that happened in the development and production of the film was the issue of the ending of the film would Ed Mulan have this kiss with Shay in front of her. I just as like Chinese unease girl. I was like Oh my God and so just everything wise you know really did not feel right about that and Rita. Shell the writer and I were very very aligned at the two female Chinese voices in the room about how that could not be math really got down to the wire. I think that ultimately they thankfully made when I think was the right. Decision will tell you there. There has been some kind of conversation around that because most princesses quote unquote in Milan is not princess but most most Disney heroine woah heroines at do in fact get that kiss yes and to have the Chinese one the first Chinese one the first one to not get this. You know some people are comparing it to you like Romeo must die where you know Jillian Leeann the cleanest but the reasons are correct and yes once remember is of course one is set in ancient China right. Yes I mean it would be impossible. It was is the right call right there yeah so going from there. I mean actually kind of putting down a marker and saying hey I can do this. I can tell a story that's cross cultural yeah and translate that culture in an authentic fashion yeah into period. Yes even decisions like that. that obviously puts you in a unique position in Hollywood. I mean how many other animated Hollywood features focused on Asian especially East Asia Yeah Chinese context. Are there yeah kind of yeah yeah. Well People Count Concert Panda which I think definitely you know I love the trilogy of films you know they are animals so it's a little different but yeah there haven't there haven't been that many so I will say I think competitive do a good job of embracing. China China's caught in context yes but it is of course not China per se yes. It is some ultra as more of an animal. Yes although if you're a fan of martial arts film in I said that it's like this is a really great job of just being like living up to that sort of legit standard of like like they've done. They're like they've definitely other reasons that that was a martial arts fan definitely definitely yeah but I was so excited with abominable to get the opportunity to represent modern day China because that's really something you haven't not seen before in a global animated film so monitored not through the Lens animals modern-day Tendon of animals but coupling agent China. It's it's definitely for that made in China so but contemporary yes yes their own interpretation but you know it's a memorable starts in in a modern day Chinese city. It's a modern day Chinese family. They're modern day Chinese teens. It's a whole different feeling because it's not like you're trying to make it as accurate as it was. Two something that existed in the past you're trying to accurately represent something that's currently evolving offing and existing and changing and kind of making it real and authentic and relevant so can we talk about like what was what were the beginnings. Giddings of this project. How did this start sure so the project this journey of this film was seven years and it started in two thousand twelve when we were still part of dreamworks. We were really one company. there was a strong desire to do a film with Joel and Dan who's the writer director of the film and we actually pitched her a bunch of projects both on dreamer upside in the rantel dreamer side in one of them was the project about a Yeti and Jill that was the project she responded to the most she had grown up always with giant dogs like bloodhounds or one hundred twenty pounds and she loved the idea her dogs even though they didn't speak they're always so communicative live and she always knew they were hungry or mad at her you know and they were like members of the family and so she loved the idea of able to create like a giant animated character that could be super communicative and have bond with humans but but didn't talk so kind of from concept was a non speaking a character and then she gave this idea of wanting to take the back home to its fabled home in the Himalayas so then it just very organically he came from that that this family and these kids would live in China because geographically it was somewhere that that made sense and she loved the idea idea of going from a city getting more and more closer to nature and the opportunity to feature all these locations in China that the rest of the World Komo likely perhaps had not seen before and she really intentionally shows settings that were not necessarily well known so like the Great Wall of the terrified of warriors for example or not in the film and they're temporarily not in the film and the places that are showcased in the film are lesser lesser known and even I think there are you know lots of Chinese people living in China that have not gone onto a lot of places on the phone so that is actually the core of the narrative about returning Everest the getting back to his in his home and I know we've talked about the whole idea of how Chinese story tells a little bit different story on past you know one of the things that we discussed is that you know. Western story telling TENDS TO BE LINEAR. You're kind of running towards goal and that goal is to go from wherever you are ex- to why were wise higher up where you were at the beginning. Chinese stories are circular like Chinese culture. It's about in some ways finding yourself again or coming back home again. We're rectifying an imbalance again and you know some the conversation we had feel like they sort of are there in the film yeah not least the fact that every character there sure sense return back to something yes right and this. I don't want give too much-awaited story but this actually plays out in really interesting ways for I think Western viewers in the sense that while there are other stories where you're kind of ended up where he began there. There's so much about this story. That's kind of healing and recovering memory Marie and finding your balance again yeah that to me. It felt very intrinsically Chinese in a way that Western animated films not including launch. It was yeah definitely I mean I think that that was definitely intentional and I think that's something that's it's really special about the film. you know a lot of times. I think films like this maybe focus on the sadness or kind of like take that that air that that part of the journey and ye is really focused on kind of the quietness and that she's initially withdrawn and she doesn't know what's wrong with her and she doesn't know how to heal and she doesn't know how to connect with her family and the journey of this film brings her to place where she's able to do that so it's much more. I think of an internal journey than you usually see at the same time I think it it definitely also is you know Western enough. I guess in a way global in in the way that it's told that it doesn't feel off putting to a global audience Western storytelling there's the convention of the character learning something along the way and kind of ending up in a better place and I think that he still does that and so I think something that still feels very tangibly relatable. Although be the main prize that she gets the end is her grandma's dumplings uh-huh okay we'll take a little break and we'll return we will do our signature segment the good the bad the WTO episode stick around break mud. We're still going strong. It's an exciting time of Asian Americans Thermo. There are more movies. TV shows books and music reflecting us than ever but all of these represent just a small slice of Asian American culture experiences. So what do we do. Tell more slices. Asian American is a show that explores these slices of distinctly Asian American culture and history. We've talked about how Chinese Americans built California Sacramento Delta The Art Scene Turns Gallery institution giant robot a play that explores the loss Cambodian pop music of the Sixties and seventies and of course Boba just to name a few stories least you can find Asian American Asian Americana Dot Com or on your podcast APP didn't todd proven and we're back all right so now for the second half of the show we will go into our favorite segment the good the bad and w t f so Jiang would you please lay down the rules of engagement. Will I'm scared so this is around him segment show we go through a single the topic three different ways. Sometimes we participate. I think this time we're going to put you on the spot alone. Palin and at the three ways we actually looked at topic the good the thing that makes us feel good inside like the word good itself right something that's either empowers us makes us happy makes for one fuzzy lousy. The bad is it could be a frustration challenge so enrages saddens us just really super hard that we encountered in the process and then finally the Doug Chef. Is You know the thing that makes us go right. whatever it is that we still have questions about reflecting on doesn't that'd be good or bad could be both even but in this case we actually wanted to tackle the good balance of translating culture right and and it's something which I think all of us can relate to every single time. We you know when we're in school brought a lunch to school that people didn't recognize kind of reacted to that was an act of US trying to translate culture but then again we weren't making seven year long feature film so for the goods th-that ended up casserole much bigger for you but let's good good in. Thelma's I I have to say I really feel like we succeeded. In terms of the authenticity of bringing a modern day Chinese family and setting leading to this film we actually recently had a preview of the film in China and we were really thrilled that many Eddie audience members were like this film was not couldn't have been a co-production. There was definitely made by a local company. It feels so local and it was you know the small details from you know. There's hundreds of signs on the streets in the city. One of them happens to be pushy band which is like a after school study crab school cramps blow aw that only exists in China and one of the audience numbers cited that as his proof he was like I mean who there's no way sheep on outside but also you know I'm just like a superficial things like signs than nuance of how the families represented presented so there's one particular scene where the main character kind of rebuffs for grandmother. She doesn't want to deal and talk with her and there was many many different conversations recissions how to make that scene authentic right and so while an American teenager might have just stopped off and slammed the door in her room and you know now we knew that he would never treat her mother that way or speak to her mother that way and so it was the question of how does she walk away if she walks away. Does she close the door. Does she uncles door. She closes it only halfway how quickly she closed the door. What is she saying. All of those things that scene was boarded looked at taken down reboarded looked at and there really is that kind of nuance in the storytelling and the attention to detail so I think it's something that we're really proud of turned out and obviously thrilled and relieved that Chinese audiences connected with it in that way. Kai Ask about one thing that I'm always curious about. In animation is the casting of voices yes and how important honestly the race of your actors are like because you don't see there you perhaps could be. I mean honestly could anybody when it comes to just sort of the performance of voice yeah yeah especially if you're talking about English dialogue and I've seen cases where frankly Asian characters were played by by white people like a white panda. Maybe the case of Act Act of the two strings were a lot of people were not cool that fulfill it marred my honestly a little bit of my heart enjoyment of that and I'm wondering why am like so I'm wondering your take on that thought process of casting actors. Yeah Yeah Yep so my take on it is super important even though that it's animation and I think for multiple reasons one I feel like so the the cast the actors that we cast in the film Khloe Ben attending trainer outward size the leads each of them actually has the personal connection to the story that they that stems from being part of the culture and I think that they brought a whole different layer nuance to the performance because of that and so I think definitely elevated the film that the actors were actually from the culture that the characters characters in the film were about but I think also apart from actually being great for the film I think it's also important and because for for me throughout my career of how this conversation many many times and oftentimes the reason that's given for maybe why we wouldn't be able to be casting a culturally authentic way is because that the town's not there so the feeling that like you know what of course we love to Castro Chinese after but there's Chinese actors that are funny enough or have enough experience or you know and it's very kind of first of all not through but secondly the chicken and egg. You know especially like in live action films. It's like well. How are you gonNa have a leading man. That's Chinese as if he never gets to cast any in films like it just. Doesn't you know how is that going to ball and so I think that we really and it's not the easy easy thing to do because I think that some of these actors are lesser known. They're not on the traditional list that like everybody always does too when they're looking to cast and so you have to kind of you know. I talk about how it's similar to when you're looking for executives or you're looking for projects like you have to kind of. It's not the low hanging fruit. You have to go to less traditional places but the talent is definitely out there and I that was important to me. You know that we are sending that message as wealth. Can I say that in some ways it sort of circles back to Disney. Yeah you come began again that chloe Bennet aiden agents of shield right outside got his first foot for the door and some ways through fresh off the boat with a guest starring appearance. Goldstein is unconstitutional right now and tenzing trader also Disney. That's true Eh Chair of course I would also add that. One of the interesting things here is. It's not just about finding people who are asian-american anymore like you said they're people who have specific routes in the culture story. chloe. Bennet actually began her career as a positive it kind of China and fifteen years old lived in Shanghai with her grandmother so she knows that she knows that she she actually famously says all the time when she went into audition. She's like if I don't Cook that role. I should just quit as like that. Character is me. I don't have to act yes. She was written there. Yes yes while tenzing trainer is actually a descendant of he's the grandson of tenzing. Norgay trainor is his his name and his grandfather's name and he was the Sherpa that took Edmund Hillary up. It's one of the first two people to summit mount. Everest crazy pursued my gosh. We actually didn't even know that when we cast him. That's not why we ask them. We found that out after the fact that's what minds for his blown and little yeti magic adding so what little nuance by the way one add a new ones for people in China to see the way things are is that the characters as cast so close Bene- place the female protagonist and then Albert side plays her little cousin friend friend right there their friends their neighbors Jin paying our customers so tenzing norgay players Jin who sort of like the male protagonist Bagnis now in Hollywood you that you totally would have year end paying be brother and sister you know like the little brother running along after but you know this was done in China s that is often the case yes sleeve policy has evolved over the seven years making King of years ago but we they're intentionally all single children on purpose so you know things like that and and so that's the good inside yeah but obviously there is a bad in the sense that it's not easy to do this rare. Yeah I mean it is I will say like props and the credit goes out to our partners entry works food really this team was so open to wanting to make this film as authentic as possible and and I think that part of that was that this film was born with the two companies together from inception so it wasn't a film that was like really developed in the US for a US audience and then later was like Oh. How do we make it relatable to China right from moment one intended to be a global thelma and so I think everyone was in that mind frame so there was not a lot of kind of pushback like oh. Do we really have to like you know make all the garbage. Urge cans not metal because you know. Is Anyone GonNa Notice. which is the natural that happened in the film? At the initial past all the garbage cans were metal and in the team channels like we don't have metal version scale so they went through they redid them all you know and it was it was kind of painstaking but but but you know there was always that desire for that level of authenticity so it wasn't from lack of desire but I think that it is just hard because there's so much nuance and every sequence in this film when I watch Shit I can't help but think of the dialogue of the conversations and the debates we had all along the way of like how to make it the most culturally authentic so so it is something that can make a little little crazy but I love to hear the the cultural difference commentary trek the just like picking out those little like mental garbage cans. No Yeah Easter eggs embedded yeah yeah. Easter eggs said the bushy ban and so yeah yeah. Those are things a lot. There's a lot in there yeah. I'll ask him of that. Are you know one of the one of the other challenges we have is. We made a whole other audio track of this film in Mandarin and so for China audience since there is a whole separate cast and they're awesome also there stars actually cast for Ye and GIN is a Chen Fei who happens to be his son who's a big star in China and as vice also night is also played by a star in China and there was a lot of challenges in terms of how to as you adapt that we had a whole Chinese consulting director Chinese writing team to do that but it was interesting. I think the first pass of it we did a more literal translation and kind kind of just to see where we were at and what we learned was that none of the jokes played in Chinese literally. None of them were like wow this movie's no more and so it was Kinda came to be about like how do we do that and translate the joke so that there are jokes obviously the jokes in both versions of the film and so you know a couple of examples. There's a scene early on where burnished villain is. There's a presented with some whooping snakes the rare exotic pets that he collects and he's talking because he's he's talking about. Oh maybe I'll turn them into a belt or and that joke always played the US but in China I think people were like completely feeling like that wasn't resonating and so of course because China's culture is all about food. We changed the joke to Maybe I could make a stir fry snake or Mama snake or you know the different dishes that he would turn the snakes into and then real things which are talk about that but but you know after that it killed so you know those kinds of nuances that we kind of really went to extra links all throughout out and the exciting thing about the Chinese version is that thanks to our amazing distributors universal partnering wondering with a company called theater ears is the Mandarin version is going to be accessible in the US at any theater you go to you can download the theaters at theatre ears APP and watch the film and matter of Abloy Yeah so we're really excited like just you know kind of because the film is all about family family and home and that different generations of Chinese families here in the US like a grandmother a daughter and a grandchild go each watch it in the language of their choice sitting side by side Item Theater Double Feature Farewell Address exactly that point now. We're into the last round. I write the W. T. F. around. Are there things that you're still left with and you know either things that you are remained puzzled by even at the end of this particular journey where things are like well next around. We didn't catch this first time or didn't think about this this first time but we're definitely think about it the next one something like that. What is your. WF Jeff residual moment if you will residual now you've made it even worse. You know I'm I'm really really happy with how film turned out but of course it remains to be seen we're sitting here on the eve of the release in both countries did it work show up and watch this movie and are they going to relate to it in the way that we hope that they will and you know all the things that we put into it. You know that we think are in the film early actually in the film and I think like that's you know only only time and box office will tell as is the case. I will say as the person who has seen of yourself. I enjoyed it very much. I feel especially for younger children. Those who aren't serve watching and completely mindful the cultural details as it was because I was watching it through the lens of somebody who was fascinated by the process ways. Yes this can watching how good time yes yes. I do think that Everest is a a really kind of unique animated conception. I said this to as we were walking in he's. It's really hard to do. Para human characters animals that have human characteristics or humans just cartridge humans but to actually have up a true sort of blend of the two yeah is very challenging and a lot of has to do with nuanced expression the fact that he can't talk verbally. Yeah Ah makes a big difference but he comes off sort of like this huge again puppy but a puppy with very very human characteristics and I think that it's going to melt some hearts and hopefully win a little bit bucks off. It's Okay Yeah I. I think that you know one of the things of course we've talked a lot about the cultural nuance and authenticity today but one of the things. I think that we're really proud of about the film is that it is also just an enjoyable emotional film about a character that is complex and goes on this amazing adventure journey and she just has to be Chinese. You know it's not a fell about her being in Chinese and so I think that hopefully it will be very globally relatable and kids all around the rubble. Just go and have a great time so thank you so much for being on my culture. Where can people find you online so I'm on facebook twitter instagram at Palin. Chow all in all places. It's a it's a unique name so hopefully easy to find that C. H. O. U. Jeff Yang Yourself. I'm original spin on twitter and other places mostly twitter though and Phil how about yourself you'd find me at angry Asian man and on angry men dot com you can also find the show at they call us. Bruce on facebook twitter instagram. Please also find us on apple podcast and subscriber or whatever whatever APP you used to listen to podcasts also leave. The rating or review really helps people find the show. Thank you for your support at at all times that does it for this episode. Thank you so much next time. You've been listening to they. Call US Bruce with Jeff Yang and Phil. You our theme music is by Kiro. One our producer Nick Song. They call us. Bruce is a member of the POTLUCK podcast collective featuring unique voices and stories from the Asian American community find out more or at podcast potluck dot com and thanks for listening to yeah.

China US Hollywood Disney Jeff Yang writer dreamworks Shanghai Shanghai China Milan Bruce Milan China China Merck Rita Palin netflix Asia New York giants
Episode 93: They Call Us Yul Kwon

They Call Us Bruce

1:28:13 hr | 6 months ago

Episode 93: They Call Us Yul Kwon

"Hello and welcome to another edition of US. Bruce and unfiltered conversation. But what's happening in Asia America? I'm bill you and I'm Jeff Yang and we are again. Socially distant coming remote from three different cities to them are are parts of southern California and the third use northern California. Where one of our very good friends. Somebody who we have not had a chance to speak to for quite a while. Friend of the PODCAST friend of a friend of America. You'll kwan is with US tonight. It's okay to greet to connect guys like it's been forever since I've talked with you some. I'm really excited catch up. Yeah Yeah it's like a lifetime kind of feels like it anyway does does so. We've got your Kwon Winner of survivor. Cook Islands. That's back. That was many years ago. But we have them on now because you are on the current season of survivor. The the fortieth season of survivor the The twentieth anniversary season and It is particularly special because all the contestants are previous winners You know I gotta say like I. I haven't watched survivor in years. I mean it has to be like maybe a decade but you. You are the reason why I tuned in to watch this currency. Is it going to see what my boy is doing? Express I mean let's not undersell. How much of a game? Changing moment was on that that very first season the county's not only because of you and the fact that you one but it was such a a weird season and one where they literally it was the whole of survivor race war so there was actually a team. Asian to vote to root for and I mean even now it was I feel like it was actually a critical moment in some ways in the kind of coming out of Asia America in television because for the first time as much as the concept was you know a little bit Questionable it was also the first time I think they purposely cast a group of Asian Americans who very specifically had to fill very different roles. That is it wasn't like Asian Person Fitting Asian shaped hole right and as a result. You know it it forced I think Primetime America to start really discerning and recognizing the fact that we do occupy a abroad slice of bandwidth in the spectrum of personalities. And of course the fact that you one was like the Cherry on top of that Sunday well okay. You'll before you say I have to tell I have to say to Jeff. Please don't ever use the term Asian shaped hole ever again. My Gosh Art. Yeah I mean Cook Islands was. I agree with Jaffe was a game changer. In terms of Asians on television Reality Television and also just representation in general. I think that was a key moment. Not I mean not least because you were such a dominant player on that season filling sort of all the checks of a really great survivor player. You know and that was a defining moment for you like what like how do you. How do you find that in your life? You know yes you know for me. I never thought I'd go on television. I'm a deep introverted. By nature and like the idea of like getting exposed in front of millions of people was the furthest thing from my mind. you know. The only reason I got on the show was because they had that racial twist and so they were basically desperate to try to find agent people for the tribe. Because back then you. You just didn't see a lot of Asian Americans. Applying to be on reality shows so they. I think literally every single person that tribe had been recruited. In my case. I literally got a call Like a week before the final round of casting and I don't even know how they found me. I think one of the casting agents was looking for more Asian Americans And then somehow she got in contact with one of friends and I think basically describing what they're looking for and I think you know I don't know if this pc or not. I think it was pretty clear that they're casting in some ways like for stereotypes like basically. I think that my friend was told. Yeah we're looking for someone who's like Asian and really smart good at math. She's like Oh exactly. You GotTA TALK TO GEEK. Right so I got a call one day and you know when when I got to see the craziest thing like why would ever go on a reality show and you know I thought about it and the reason I went on. I've talked about this before is like growing up. I just felt like there was a lack of people from our committee on television like growing up. I didn't see a lot of Asian Americans who were portrayed as like leaders just like ordinary Americans and I felt like it really impacted the way that I viewed myself on the way. Define my relationships. Like I've always thought of myself as being kind of this quiet person. I never thought it was appropriate for me to speak up and took me a long time to really develop a sense of confidence in myself and you know again. There are lots of reasons for that but I think the absence of having visible images Like in the media people you can identify with them. Look up to and hey you know. That's the kind of person that can be. I think that played a subtle but pretty pervasive role in the way that I I saw myself and I developed and so fast forward overtime it took me a while but eventually got more comfortable with myself. You Know I. I grew up always feeling limit marginalized always kind of like not the cool kid and I remember like when it got the opportunity. I thought to myself look. How often is it that some of our community gets that chance right to go on a mainstream television show and the thing that really kind of got me excited I guess was whatever you see on television at least up to that point they were typically portrayed according to the stereotypes right? And it's not like it's not like he had any choice. It's not like the actor can go in there and say like no no no. I'm not gonNA say these lines. The basically have to play the role that the Makassar and read the line to someone else wrote for them and realize the great thing about reality shows that you know it doesn't matter why am being cast again in my Kisa. Felt like they're clearly looking for a certain stereotype but once I got on the show the great thing about reality shows that I could say whatever I to say. I didn't have to read the lines. That person in Hollywood wrote for what he thought in Asian. I should say right so I was thinking okay. Look I don't feel like I'm the best person to represent I'm not. I'm not a telegenic person I don't speak typically confidently a well like how often to someone get this opportunity and you know what if I go out there and I do halfway decent like maybe that next kid. Who's like me growing up? But just kind of starved for these images of people in the media that they could kind of identify with an emulate like me might make an impact for someone like that and that's basically why went on. The show can be clear though that when you say oh you know Asian good at Math Kinda Geeky and so forth most people's perception the visual image. That comes mind does not really look like you'll it's like maybe more like me. The the fact is they're framing of who they're looking for also had like asterisk also helps if he's ripped looks without a shirt on and worked out so hard. I mean again one of the things I was thinking. I don't want to go out there and look like this. Frail kind of like persons never seen the light of day so I worked out like crazy like I wanted to Friday like be conscious of the stereotypes that I've seen when I was growing up and try to do my best to like you know. Upend some of the stereotypes so I worked at Lake for two months like hardcore. Like I didn't want to go out there. And Kinda beat Central Geek but when you actually were dropped on on this deserted island were with your tribe and everything. How much of of what happened there and I think we can speak about it. You know with the fourteen year separation at right. How much of of what you actually encountered was Steph. You expected to encounter. I mean it is ultimately even though it's made for tv you gotTA survive there and you've got to survive there with a a family quote unquote right. You never met before and you have to build some kind of relationship with and everything is going to be close friends others maybe less. So how did how did you actually deal with that? Well you know. We started off divided into our ethnic tribes and You know again. That was actually something. They didn't tell us before like you know. They told US literally once. We got on the island the night before the game started. If I'd known that they were going to do that to no way I would have gone on the show. Like I should've for the casting final round of interviews. I was like Whoa. This is kind of weird. They're like a lot of Asian people. Here this is pretty cool and I thought maybe what they might want to do is start off with different tribes with one person of each ethnicity on each trip. I thought okay. That might make sense that. Maybe that's not a bad thing. It didn't really occur to me that they would try to separate us by because it just seemed like such a blatantly terrible idea right it just seems so like shocking to me and I just thought that like look. That would be a terrible thing to do. Because I couldn't imagine it working out in ending in a way that I thought would would end positively right so you can imagine like you know a thousand different ways that the season would end and most of them were bad right so if you had like all the white people pending out and they white that all the people of color that's bad that's not gonNa take or what my Asian tribes say the Asian people dominate. And we'd get rid of all the white people and all these you know it's like that's not going to send a good message either. So you know when when he told me that the night before. I almost quit. I was like this is like a really bad idea. Like I can't imagine how this is going to end in a in a way that's going to like reflect well on Asian Americans or any of that type of stuff so you know I thought about it really hard and I was close to quitting and the thing that kept me on was I realized that. Look if I if I quit. They're still going to do the show right. And I looked at some of the other folks were on their end. It seemed to me that there are also being cast a stereotypes. And you know if I if I stayed on at least I might have some chance of influencing how the game plays out whereas if I wasn't on I had no influence over there if it turned out poorly. Don't lowest feel kind of badly that maybe could have done something and I didn't so I decided to stay and you know for me. It wasn't that was trying to win. I thought the chances of me winning individually so like abysmal. That wasn't something I should optimize for. But what it wants to do is I didn't want the season to end with one. Ethnicity wiping out everyone else. Like I really wanted to try to build multi ethnic coalition or lions and so that was what else are we committed to so even on a truck stop his Asian American tribe then we tripe swap in for me was very important to try to build relationships with people outside of my tried and you know as it was fortunate would have it. We'll ultimately were able to have a very positive story where I formed a really tight alliance with people from virtually every ethnic tribe and we stayed together got to be unthought backstabbing each other and that was the thing that was most happy about more. So than Winning individually I mean. I think I think we're all pretty shocked by the con- the race war premise. In the beginning but that you know that dissolved pretty quickly and then it became very apparent to me like. Oh this is the. You'll Quanzhou for your Klein because it was. I was like wow I. You were dominating sort of the physical challenges. You're sort of your neighbor playing up. This master strategist kind of thing but also it was one of the few times during the show where I saw a player play with real integrity. You know what I mean. And that's something that stands out a lot Now knowing you after the fact and Getting know you. I know that that is such a so true to your personality dude and so I always look back at Cook Islands as standout season. Because it's one of the few times where can point to the winner being like someone just played fair and well and is not sort of survivor? Doesn't invite that kind of play. You know what I mean. Yeah Yeah I appreciate that. That's very kind of you. I you know for me again. I thought the chances of me winning were so low that again. That wasn't the goal that is really set out setting out to do and I was very conscious of the fact that there were so fusion. Reagan's have been on television in mainstream kind of television platform. That I didn't WANNA screwed up. I didn't WANNA fuck it up like I didn't want to win at all costs if I played a really devious way. That just like would kind of you know kind of bring back images of like the yellow peril or something like that. Like I for me. I wanted to try to play like a solid game. Play hard as I could but in a way that it could look back and feel good about like that other people can look at and feel good about that someone from our community actually able to represent an fairly positive way. I will say I mean you know for the most part. I think I was able to what I wanted to do. The one thing that that that kind of in retrospect and it kind of informs my experience with him thing again is that because I was so nervous about the whole. Racial theme like L. Is Very careful about what I said like. I self censored a lot of things that I said. I try to be very very PC. 'cause I had no idea how they're going to edit things the way that survivor kind of works chop things up. And they'll you know frame things in such a way to kind of create dramatic tension. And so I. I was worried that if they really were lenient to the whole racial thing that they would try to kind of inflame kind of sense of racial tension in so. I was very very circumspect in what I said and as it turned out like it. They didn't do that. The racial thing kind of fell apart fairly quickly and I think became just kind of normal game but I think because of that was very like reserved in the way that express myself and so there was kind of like in some ways. I think did. Kind of perpetuate the stereotype that Asians are like you know not particularly funny or they don't have like sense of humor or stuff like that so so twenty because like that's fourteen years like you know when I went on survivor this time around again. Fortunately there's no risk for going on so delighted about that but it also gave me like a sense of freedom like I didn't feel dislike tremendous pressure to represent my entire community in a certain way. So I've been all of I've been more just been more open with the way that I kind of expressed myself and especially on social media. Now I've kind of been letting loose him. It's actually been a lot of fun. I've got a good response. So yeah that's that's that's been you know it's been an interesting experience but yeah I mean Cook Islands. I couldn't. I can't really complain it. It worked out far better than I ever imagined than it gave me a guy you think. Yeah I mean I you know. Afterwards I felt it was important for me to try to use my fifteen minutes of fame today. Something positive and do a lot of lakes fairly good on profit work like the Bonar said. I've always been pretty committed to. Yeah no I mean I think has got him my wife to that show so now like married have kids and none of that stuff would have gone forever. You actually introduced to your wife by a one of your saviour. Cast mates right. Yeah Yeah Yeah Brad Virata who was on my own so I'm did you guys have you guys continue to serve. Stay in touch over the last fourteen years or so or does it. Just the Asian tribe as worse. Yes and no. I mean you know after after that show was close with like Becky and Jonathan Sandra inbred to some extent but over fourteen years. You you kind of lose touch a little bit. I mean I think we're stole all friends but you know it's a little bit more sporadic than it used to be interesting because when Jeff probst was talking about Recruiting for this. You know like winners versus winners season. Right he was like fielding different. Just like an interview I saw fielding different people he wanted to get on and I think he said before that you're actually his like in the top ten of his favorites winners all know about that wrestlers Asia. There I I don't think so. I did not think just like me and in fact I if anything I thought he was. Kinda like going out of his way to you know. Give me a hard time. I asked him about it afterwards. I'm like Jeff Flake. Wait why don't you break my balls? Man Can so hard for me time that he thought I was just like dominating the game and he just wanted to spice things up and make more interesting but yeah I don't know I mean I I think jeff is always like again. I don't really know it's not like I talked to sky every day like I have a tremendous respect for him but I've never thought that I was someone that he particularly cared for as a player. I think he'd like me as a person but I always thought he thought it was kind of boring. So it's funny because I have seen the same interviews and like he says like really likes me and one of his favorite players. He's been trying to bring me back for years. I'm like I don't remember. I don't think I don't remember you'd be inbound my door to bring the what it is. I've come back in and it was fun. This time around. I had a lot of fun. Jeff was extremely gracious And we had a lot more fun this time again. Like the summer ended Infield More personally show and I think you appreciate that Do they have had previous seasons where they brought back previous contents oak. You were you were. You approached for previous seasons to come back a few times from my season. I mean my season from Collins was like a stacked cast right like you had poverty whose probably possibly the best player ever. She's been brought back like four times. Jonathan Penner played three times. Kansas played twice an ozzy until this season has spent more time. It's Barbra than anyone else. He played four times right so all these people have been brought back in my case I was asked a couple of times and then one time it got pretty far but I think basically decided not to bring you back last minute. The last time that I think the asked me seriously happens. Maybe like six years ago but the problem then was I just had a baby. I just started a new job so doesn't Waco back so yeah I mean again. It's not like they've been asking me to come back over and over again so that that's kind of knew that this time when they asked me to come back it was going to be an all winners thing because I figured the only way I was going to cut back was if they brought back only winners and if you have that why not bring back all right so I think it's interesting because if his rationalization was that you were dominating the game too much maybe they literally were saving you for a contest of champions on some level But I will say that I mean another thing I saw was that when entertainment weekly did a poll of Basically like reader's favorite survivor contestants like again of all time. I think you came in number one. Then what if an Asian stacking the deck or something like you know Melamine population of folks? Who are likely to vote on those things. I think are probably skewed towards Asian Americans. But I've had a couple of times programming. The Bod that voted for me like a million times. Thank you so what? What ultimately led you to to want to come back in. And was it like a hard decision for you. I mean in terms of you know the experiencing self right it was I. You know it's like I think When I was younger I would have been more open to just like coming back this time around man by the time the asked me had been thirteen years like it felt like a different person a completely different life like my life now is like so boring. It's like I have two kids. I have a job like there's nothing about my life. That's interesting like in in any kind of let me put it like. I have a wonderful life but it. I don't do any kind of crazy interesting stuff like that. That's not me so this time around when they asked me it just felt like what like like if I if I didn't objectively know that I had gone on survivor. At some point in my life done it. It never would have occurred to me. They said something like me would go on. It just seems so outside my kind of realm of experience but the other thing was quite honestly. I didn't think my wife would go for like my wife has always been very opposed to. Do that might go back on the island again. Who you know. It sounds like I don't know like just seems kind of a weird thing to do now going back. I also had not been in my current job for that long and so I was thinking okay. Like Howard dig on a lake. Let me go like that's probably not going to happen. So I talked to my wife and to my utter surprise she was like. Oh my God you gotta go out of the House. Have even into that this before. You've always been started down like what happened to my wife. Listen like you got two kids and a stable job. I know you're not going anywhere. I know you're not gonNA come back and try to like become this like reality. Star and start your own reality podcast or something so so many think because we have such a stable settled boring life. The idea of doing something a little bit crazy was actually exciting for her. So yeah that was the thing that kind of opened up the possibility I still was kind of a little bit kind of iffy on it You know and then I asked my boss my management chain. They're also supportive but the thing that really tipped it over. The edge for me was You know From Cook Islands one of the people stay close friends with With Jonathan Penner. And you know we had a very tumultuous relationship Cook Islands like I think you know. We started off relationship with him stealing my chicken when we didn't even know each other and then became allies and then he back stabbed me and then we're enemies and then like we had become allies again in the enemies that when a block blindsided him and then he voted for me at the end so it was a very like up and down rollercoaster. Aleisha outside the game though we stayed in touch and we started becoming very close friends. And you just honestly someone. I adore like inside the game. You know it's a weird environment right it it kind of you know you do a lot of things you wouldn't do in normal life But outside the game he was just a genuinely caring thoughtful loving person. And you know I got to know his wife kids and and really just get started looking to him as a role model for the kind of father I wanted. He's such a devoted. Father was such a devoted husband. A see how much like saw much. She loved his wife and his kids. Are these like amazing. Kids like very articulate and well-spoken. Remember thinking myself. Gosh I I want to have kids like that like I remember asking him literally one point like how did you do that? Like how did you raise your kids to be such like wonderful children? So you know through that whole process We came close. And then you know they're the unfortunately have been going through just an incredible tragedy a couple years ago. Stacy was diagnosed with AOL US and Unfortunately it's a relatively rare form of ls that's caused by a genetic disorder that that In hurdle so her grandfather died from. Ls Her mother died in with complications related to like dementia that was triggered by this gene. And she does. She discovered that she had and you in the last two years. The disease has progressed. Very quickly and very dramatically. So you know. By the time I got asked to go on survivor. Stacey had been essentially confined her bed the disease had gone to join where she'd lost all motor function except for her is And that's basically the only way she can communicate `electronic screen that has attracted technologicial slowly spell out letters so just seeing. Jonathan go through. This was absolutely heartbreaking. And it's not just what he has to go through a she has to go through but it's the knowledge that each of their children has a fifty percent chance of inheriting a man disorder. That will cause these. So I've I've done what I can just as a friend and try to be supportive but know I felt like most people do just incredibly helpless and then when I got this call at some point I just kind of made the connection like hey if I wanted the show. I'll have this platform to try to raise awareness of this and try to raise some funds in a way that I couldn't do otherwise than I thought back to my experience on Cook Islands and I don't know if you guys know this but one thing that I've always been very involved with was has been de the effort to try to increase number of Asian Americans who become registered become bone. Marrow donors right. Yeah totally we. It was one of the things which I thought was really remarkable about how you used a platform mealy that you know you you really reaching out to other Asian Americans to get on board with doing something that very much directly with you know helping people to survive. You know that you know for me. It starts off when In college my my best friend was a guy named Evan Chen. And Evan I had been for instance childhood We grew up really close in high school. Were best friends. We both got into college together. And then We were roommates and then in my sophomore year. He was diagnosed with leukemia. And you know the basically said that. His only chance of cure was to have a bone marrow transplant. And the problem has we found back. Then is that if you're occasion your chances of finding a bone marrow donor in the national registry of people rich to become bonar donors is actually pretty good because enough occasion people have registered become bone marrow donors. But if you're Asian American your chances are are abysmal like back then we're told the NHL One and fifteen thousand chance of finding a match and obviously confined match. So you know. I stopped going to my classes and I tried to organize. Marriage is in a desperate effort to try to find a match and I just remember how hard it was back then. It was just incredibly hard to get people to pay. Attention is hard to get media to pay attention. I was trying to think of all the Asian American viewers. It's in politics or media and there was just a very short list of people right in. I wasn't successful in trying to reach out to them to help publicize it. 'cause it's ultimately my friend passed away in my senior year and ever since then. I've been active in trying to get more people registered compared Organizing bone marrow drives but it was just you know it's like pulling teeth. It's so hard to get attention. It's so hard to get people to to give and so when it went on survivor. You know and a one. I figured I have these fifteen minutes of fame. I'm getting all these people. All these organizations around the country especially Asian American patients have been inviting me to come speak right. It's like corporations universities like all across the map and I thought hey this might be the opportunity that can use to actually try to make a difference here and so basically made it a condition that if someone wanted me to come and make an appearance or give a speech. They'd have to let me run a bone marrow drive and so I worked with a lot of the Bone marrow organizations around the country. The eastern wrecking donor program the national marrow donor program and so anytime. I went to give a speech. I would basically work with organizations to run a boomer drive and so like I think over two years helped organize maybe like sixty or seventy or eighty bonar judgment. I don't know the exact count but again this is like I was able to do something at a at a skill. That was impossible for me to do before. And one thing I I just feel really happy about like of the soul experiences at. We were able to find a match for at least three people through the driveway but Organiz. So you know it was just you know again. The the nature reality fame is that it you get this like burst of attention for wild quickly fades and so and for me like I was more than happy to just go back to my normal life. I like it was my aspiration and go back on reality shows and things like that but when this came run again this opportunity go back on survivor and knows can before the twentieth anniversary. All the winners coming back. We're not all the winners is going to be an all winter season. You know something that I knew. This was going to put a lot of marketing muscle behind the curtain. Me Like look I might be able to do something going on the show that it would not be able to do otherwise. So that's that's the thing that kind of pushed me over the edge. That's why I did. It did did you when you actually shared this with. I mean presumably you said Hey I i. I really would like to use this platform in that fashion. What what was the reaction? I think people were supportive. But you know at the time it wasn't like I also want to be a little bit careful because I wasn't sure what the reception would be. I wasn't sure if Jeff probst in you know everyone else would actually not want to play for that reason like again. I wasn't sure I you know you would think that most people would be like everyone has their own mitigation going back on the show but we can. I wasn't entirely sure. What if they're like no? No no we just want people who are really going to be cut throat and we'll like just play for themselves right so I wasn't like super overt about it until actually got on the island and at that point like you know screw something up. And so my pre-game interviews. I was pretty vocal about this. You know I figured like I'm going to talk about so much that they can't edit the stuff out But yeah I mean like when I was in the process them when they were kind of like asking me for a comeback on. I didn't really tell them why I want to go back. I saw the episode where you actually While on the island. And you're talking to the other players in the you talked about. You talked about the John Story and it. It came up like this is so you'll you know but I also thought that the show kind of played it like. This could be a play as well. You know what I mean sort of that. That sort of altruistic motivation of wanting to play this game. Which is you know. Not a lot of people use on the show. But it's happened before you know. Yeah I you know. I don't know I will say that during the game itself like obviously I wanted to be very careful about what as said 'cause one okay. Well look if anyone knew that plan to donate the money if I won like put up in a heartbeat like do not wanNA share with people Even just talking about like Jonathan Stacey. It was not true what you wanted to talk about that and when it actually came out it was not something I had plan on doing. I just Kinda came up in the conversation and they start talking about it in the mid like all these emotions that I had inside me. I've been keeping up just came out like I. It was not a plan kind of thing and you know. Fortunately I think the way that the other contestants interpreted was authentic. I don't think they thought I was trying to play them. And I don't know how the edit it came across but I I did occur to me afterwards. I'm like Oh my God I just like kind of shoe underfoot but But you know I will say that like After after we all came back I talked to. Cbs about really trying to do something to help. Johnson and Stacey and I gotta say. Cbs was terrific. Like they were very very supportive. individually you know kind of done things that they haven't done before we organized. Psa they filmed it. They highlighted a piece in the episode. Where I talked about this and the governor emotional and we worked together create a donation page to drive all the traffic. I mean for me but thing was look like the you might get awareness but you need to be able to convert that awareness into actual action. You need some place to get some people to in order to do something like make a donation it's A. Cbs was able to do that. We would partner with the ill association in to other nonprofits and really a campaign going which was so happy about you know to be transparent like talking with the the the publicity people. Cvs publicity We were sort of giving the directive that we couldn't talk about some specifics of gameplay or the curtsy like the current season two so going and so there's a lot that's in the air Obviously you will you know a lot more than you know that's been shown on tv all that stuff. So we can't really go into that. But I do WanNa talk in generalities of like you know. The the this is a season of everyone has one before you were on in two thousand six and that was the longtime there've been a lot of seasons in the between now between now the fact that there are so many all these all previous winners. They've seen each other play. It's very Meta and also the game has evolved and watching the show watching you want it. I couldn't help but few like us very gentle like you agree fadul. I mean like in the way you you you you know you talk to people and you're in the whispers and like you're like you're even in the wheeling and dealing of the strategy part like he's very like you're very very You're not one of the people that are painted as a villain or like a Schemer and House. Like is is as the game moved beyond. You'll like I'd like you know what I mean. I don't know if you felt that way but I felt it was a really interesting to see the different kinds of game play and I'm like. Wow you will played at a time. Where the game was completely different. You know I don't know it's it's funny like even now when I watch. Tv shows like old reruns or movies like or not movies but TV shows like anytime. I see like the old format where you know. It's not it's more like looks like a square as puts like a rectangle. I think it's like Oh my God. This is so old. It's like introduced to watch the show so when I see myself Cook Islands. I'm just like Oh this is like a different era. Like technology was so antiquated back. Then we didn't have like wide screen. Tv You know it has been like dude. It's been such a long time like I. I remember so when I decided I was going to go back on a wait. I don't have that much time left. Like what am I gonNA do hadn't been keeping up with all the seasons right so thinking? Oh Crap I watched twenty seven seasons of survivor. I can get started. The one thing I will tell you is like if you try to binge-watch twenty seven seasons of survivor like their license. Half the madness. Like one physically. There was no way I could do it. I calculated that if I tried to watch like something like eight hours of TV. A day. Between now. When I left I still wouldn't be able to catch up and you know still had a fulltime job. There's no way I could like actually do this but the other is just like if you just watch that much reality television in one like like back to back to back. It drives you crazy like after just like a couple of weeks ago. My God. I'm so sick of survivor. I can. I can't tell the difference between all the different seasons over the one thing that is like Pretty Remarkable Jeff. Probst is like super consistent. Like he's just like I don't know I kind of jokes. He joked that he's kind of like that. You know you're going to chucky cheese animatronic. You just Kinda Cryogenic Chamber. You hit the button music. I woke up. You know. I don't know how he does it. But that guy is like so precise is so good and so consistent. He's very good he's very good. Yeah well you know like after fourteen years I mean it sucks you got so fat and out of shape. I mean talk aging genes man. I will say I was not in great shape. I mean look you know. I played survivor. Fourteen years ago to kids ago had like a billion hamburger cents You know I had. I'm like you know my mid-forties Ahead. The Dad Bud but again. It's not a bad vibe. Berkman worked on crazy this ahead a personal trainer and like he got me in shape. I credited him and I lost a ton of weight again. Muslim Madison like by the time of attack. It was bad. You look the same dude. That's that's a real reason to fear. Wanted to get you out there like Think you need to like work. Yeah I feel lucky like you know. I still have my hair. I did have a tire but I was able to get rid of it but yeah I could feel my age like definitely going back this time around physically like I didn't have like quite the same energy to strengthen the way I'm sure like we're all you know like older but really kind of gets you. Where if you get injured more easily things get Iki. They're things that just don't go away and then once you get tired or hurt. The recovery is much much longer than I definitely felt that this time. Well it's probably a good time for us. Take a little bit of a break. What do you think yeah? This is a good time for us to take a break but when we return we will do our signature segment the good the bad and the WF with Yul Kwon so overripe acts like around. Hi I'm Marvin and I'm re-re worthy host. A book symbol a book club and podcast Etiquette Books Aiden in eastern authors. Every month we pick a book by an author to read and discuss on the show we read a wide variety of genres from contemporary historical fiction fantasy the memoirs and Crime Thrillers To Romance. Some of our pass book club picks are Pachinko by mingeon. Lean source to the crown by Sancho and devotion of suspect act spike. He Goes Casino Russell. Stover what's eastern Literary Road and chat with some authors about their work. So whether you want to start reading for fun again or diversify your TB our list we got your Asian literature cravings cover for more INFO check out our website. Cookson BOBA DOT COM. You can listen to us on itunes. Google play spotify. And wherever you find your podcast part of the pot podcast collective and we're back all right on the second. Half of the call US Bruce. Our signature segment the good the bad and the WF Jeff Yang. Would you please lay down the rules of engagement? I will so. This is our signature segments. This is roundtable format conversation in which we take a single topic and address three different ways. The first is the good positive. The thing that makes us warm fuzzy optimistic hopeful about whatever that topic is The bad is The negative side the dark side of that thing and then finally the WPF is. You know really. It's this thing that we're still pondering the thing that puzzles us about that particular topic and given not just our guests but also kind of the world. We live in right now. We thought it'd be kind of interesting to talk about the good the bad and the dotiev of surviving of being survivor right which means a lot of different things. Now and I mean I think we will actually probe what it means in the conversation that we're about to have so With that we usually put our guest on the spot to start things off. And in this case you'll I mean it's an easy one right. Let's talk about what's good about surviving about being survivor. And Yeah it's good about surviving I mean a I mean I mean literally the good thing about some things that you're not dead the alternative positive Okay let me a little bit of a veterans to the good thing about surviving especially in different environments Is that it makes you stronger. You learn from it. You adapt it forces you to change and it also gives you a deeper appreciation in a better perspective. So let me just just give one example like you know when it went went when you're out on the island like like for example on survivor and you're just away from your family your way from your friends your literally stuck in this crappy island and you're like don't have food. You're losing weight. You're starving dirty. You don't have a place to sleep. You're just like you're really just kinda barely surviving when you come back. You just realize how richer life is. I can't describe what what it's like you know in in in my daily life. I usually wake up stressed out like immediately. I check my phone. Oh my God what kind of important meals are going kind of fire drills and then you know the whole day just like I think about all the things that are not going. Well think about all the things that I don't have you know like it's not like on a daily basis. I'm just happy or grateful for the things I have. I mean you know on survivor and again. I didn't have any of the stuff I was just like. Oh my God I would kill to have a hamburger right now. I would like murder someone to be able to kiss my kid right and then it just made me realize how rich full my life is. You know like had this one inch experience inside. There's a spot except when they're actually like I imagine like what I imagined like okay. So you're a soul. Who is going to be born into this planet and there were seven billion possible. Lives that you could cause roughly like some unplanned right and you didn't know which one of those life you're gonNa lead how I feel. I would think like Oh man. I don't know how this is GonNa work out is a very good chance. I might end up living a life. That's GonNa be a life of deprivation. Where literally just trying to like barely survive? And like you know I might be under threat of violence all that kind of stuff and if I realize at the life that I was gonna live is one that I've actually had. I would feel like a one the cosmic lottery right like I live in part of the planet where I don't have to worry about feminine. I don't have to worry about war and not only that within this country. I live in a part of this country where I live a comfortable life. I don't have to worry about like you know the many many different things that most people Birth have to have to worry about? So you don't WanNa came back. I was just like Oh my God I am so incredibly lucky like to have the life that I have not only do I have all the material needs met but have a wonderful wife at wonderful children. They're healthy. I have wonderful friends. And that's the thing that really kind of like like I don't know it was just a profound insight that house and so I guess that's the benefit of it like if you're able to survive in you're able to make it through whatever difficult time that you're going through you really learn to appreciate how great life can be and you don't take things for granted that's actually incredibly Not just thoughtful but thought provoking obviously and I mean I think especially now you know I you know look at Phil I'll jump in with the surviving right. I mean so it's very much Around what would you'll said although I'm going to frame it not from my fourteen year career as a reality TV champion but from my humble Huddled in a House with three other people twenty four seven perspective. I mean the the small things that you are encountering now the little victories and and the sort of tiny bits of of peace and quiet and inspiration that that emerge in this time of emergency just our so much sweeter You know we haven't really gone outside at all. My youngest who's twelve literally has not gone outside of off our property For three weeks right you know I. I've travelled out the grocery store and To get some necessary items You know In general we have been trying our best in all ways to to keep distant. Even when we're just walk around the neighborhood and you know getting some exercise and so forth but today we actually decided to take a bike ride and get something to eat from outdoors like as a giant tree to us. We actually had Sushi which you know ahead actually research to make sure that this was still going to be a reasonably safe thing to do we pick the place that was quite expensive and You know ordered it Pick it up from a distance. Paid you know kind of Rowley. All that stuff but it was something we've been kinda craving for for a while and I thought. Hey you know this is a you know. Basically almost three hundred lockdown. If we can do it safely. Walk Getting some exercise. Let's try doing it so we did. I'm sure there are people who will frown on that. But I will say that just the opportunity to actually get a certain distance away from the house you know. Even if we didn't actually encounter other people I mean other than you know. Sort of the brief exchange of value for goods and services. It was it was still. It's sort of breathtaking just to see new scenery. It was still. There's something something really beautiful about being able to purposely. Get Away instead of like get away and just purely functional desperate. It's you know Kinda scrabbling fashion to pick up. You know necessary items for for survival and I don't know it's like that's maybe the thing I miss most like doing things out of Volition. As opposed to doing things we have to As as a family as a parent and and yet we survive and so I think that on the back end of all this hopefully we will be much more grateful for the blessings. We do have Phil. How about yourself? I think my mind is just along similar lines with you. Guys obviously haven't had the experience of being on a desert island and all that stuff. We're all kind of care. Yeah but I mean I mean this. This is this is unique moment for a for all of us right And so every day. I think a little bit like like you know. There's the fear and there's executive anxiety of what we're living in right now but every day to be a little bit thankful if you look you know like I'll look back in the day. Today was hard like today like Dealing with kit and and all that stuff And being worried about terms and all that stuff. That's it's it's stressful. But you have to look back and look at like look. You have relatively easy. You are in a good position right now. You're not for what a lot of things you're you're you're fine you know but I will so good I just I'm Gonna I'm GonNa Actually GonNa look to twitter and I'm going to quote a tweet from somebody that I saw. That was a little perspective. This is from a journalist. Name Michelle Lee. Who tweeted Last week I asked my grandma who escaped North Korea as the Korean War broke out. How her Corona Corentin in Seoul compared to a war experience and I got an earful quote. What we were getting what we were getting bombed every day during the war. Now I sit in my house all day with Wi fi hashtag perspective. I think had it says it. I mean so we're good. We're good These are these are extraordinary times. But we're good So that's my good good good good. You could still door dash like Kimchi to bury it in the soil for three months as hard as we think we have it. It's it's not as hard as as our parents and our grandparents ever had it in in the worst of their time. So thank God for that. Can we create like my So yeah I mean I often think about you know for people who grew up in kind of our generation. You almost take for granted that life is supposed to be a certain way like you know but for most of our history of just like human history even in the last hundred years. I mean. This hasn't necessarily been the norm in. My parents grew up in post Korean War where they grew up in destitute. Circumstances like literally. Were just trying to survive my wife Sophie her family. She's ethically Chinese but the group in Cambodia and during the Chimera Rouge her like out of like nine aunts and uncles. Seven of them were killed. So you know so fi Sophie's. Mom just barely got out with her older sister on boats and eventually they were kind of scattered around. And you know if you just think about stuff like that. I mean it wasn't that long ago right and you know for us to like again. I think the the key thing that we were all saying is just. It's a matter of perspective and you know I think it's often easy for us to kind of lose that perspective and benefits of going through Experience like we are today is just it really brings that perspective that you need to really appreciate your life going forward and I think that's a really thing. Well these are all truly. I think truly inspirational ways of thinking of the good of our time. It's obviously quite easy in in contrast to talk about the bad right And accept that. Now that we've all said you know it's like oh nothing can possibly be as bad as some of the things that we've seen and you know we are the lucky ones at the end of the day Yeah let's rent a little bit. Let's talk about the The bad side of of being survivor. And I'm actually I'M GONNA go first because You know we're reaching that point in this crisis were just even informal polls all of us now people who have been struck by this disease and we're starting know people who have actually been struck down and so you know today the first person who I would say is a friend Passed away and I mean. She's you know somebody who Asian journalists earnings Maria Mercator. Cbs News longtime producer. And actually head of kind of diversity. Talent sourcing talent strategy for For News Network and A CANCER SURVIVOR. Who obviously was as a result? Probably a bit immuno-compromised And certainly higher risk and you know at eight fifty four She she passed away from from this from covert. But you know the bad part of being a survivor is is you know as we go on we will. We will have more of this. That we will have to count people who we know people who love and feel the burden that sort of guilty of surviving onwards. And you know. We can't do more than mourn and stay strong and keep those who do love even closer to us but I do wonder especially for the generation that is growing up within this generation who I mean among my kids. We've been fortunate enough so we've only I mean a this is something which which is going to hit hard. I think for for the younger people in our In our our cohort and I think that is is heartbreaking. Because it's so hard to explain. Sorry that's sorry my condolences to you. Well yeah it's tall tall of us in this particular community and industry knew her and to her and her family in a broader sense. I mean I think yeah to to all of us who have those conversations you know. It's it's it's GonNa be harder you'll I mean? Obviously that was a heavy one. So sorry about that but yeah. So what's what's what's your your sense of the bad part of surviving. I would say similar things. Will I'd say a few things one is I think an abstract level the notion of surviving sort of almost implies that you're not thriving right so to say that someone is surviving. Means that they're the kind of on the threshold of of living not living it so if that is Kinda like the long-term state than again it seems a little bit impoverished. It's like you're you're you're just keeping ahead nause need to but you're not thriving you're not really kind of like living here fullest potential. So I think that in the abstract to your point I've I've had a number of experiences of my life were. I've lost people who are close to me like what it is but my two best friends in life died So I already talked my friend from Childhood in in college. My best friend from school also passed away So the the the aftermath of that like for the people who were who continue survive like under this almost a sense of calm ahead describe it like guilt burden you know like it's hard process you know there's a sense of grief and then also this guilt over feeling that you were not that your spirit in some sense in that whenever you feel happy than you also feel a sense of guilt as a result of that because you feel like you shouldn't be happy and there's all kinds of like challenging things to deal with. So yeah I know yeah I mean survival I think is just yeah and it sort of a challenging impoverished way to live and I would hope that for all of us you know. It's a period of time that you have to get through but beyond that you'll be able to learn from that experience and apply it in grow and appreciate the things that you have in mind going forward. I think there should be a new reality. Show that you host called empower forget survivor. This is about growing and inspiring just to just to kind of bounce here. So now we're not all like talking with his desire to read like you know like big tomes of Russian novels It will say so. Just on the lighter. Side one of the downsides to being a survivor like in the sense that like I wanna reality show is it. I can't tell you how many times this happens every time. Something bad happens to me like I missed my flight or like my door de arrive in time or like. I lost my luggage. The thing that people always intimate address Mrs like. Oh it's okay you want survivor survivor. You'll figure it out. I'm like him in food related. Give me bad customer service. You'll survive literally Y. U. L. You'll survive. Oh Yeah Oh yeah I get a lot know many of my name. There's I don't thing going on right now. So for for some reason on read it. Does you'll mean and it just consists of people posting my name over and over and over again and just a sort of reading this stuff. Because I hadn't been on red before I'm just like see all these like you'll you'll you'll you'll make your funding me like screw them this. It'd be like you'll be sorry. Yuletide Carol all that kind of stuff and so I decided all right I can either fight it or it can embrace it like okay. I'll go with it so I just posted. You will and then like all these other. You'll see post come and at this point like there's thread on Reddit that has like almost two thousand people posting. Just you'll be blown off then. I tweeted about it. Saying like yeah. There's this weird thing going on. And they're like hundred thousand comet like tweets back. I mean you're saying you'll you'll you'll you going on John Malkovich experience? Where like I'm surrounded by people like yelling you will including myself. If you'll -ception Nice was a eulogy. 'cause I've been back up. Put it off and then whole round of you'll memes Love it I love it. Okay yes so the bad of surviving. I'M GONNA take it a different way. I guess I mean like right and right. Now we're kind of the closest thing that sort of the the inkling of apocalypse of like it's apocalyptic and a lot of ways right like we're you know. This is one of those nightmare scenarios and were in it or managing the best we can but it got me thinking. I'm like I always think about when I see like an apocalyptic movie post up whether it's Zombie plague or whatever I always think like I will never survive this because I have zero kills. You know what I mean I. I'm not a handy person. My handy tools. I I don't know how to start a fire like I like like. Wi Fi is my powerful tool. You know once that's gone I don't know you know I'm I'm terrible at all. It's podcasting skills are gonNA come the apocalypse out here. I'm going to run the most popular Zombie. It'd be podcasts. Somebody positive spots but I always think of. I'm going to be the first to go 'cause I can't because I'm not valuable in any way to the survivors. Just a waste of space. So like I just I that that. That's the part. Actually that's I'm most in fear of in terms of an apocalypse is like I will never survive the the comfort like without the comforts of our contemporary modern life. You know so. I don't want to interrupt but listen to this resonates with me. I don't like I'm a total fan of legs Zombie movies. I don't know why like post-holiday movies. Like all meant to all of them by twenty two years later like one of my favorite movies like World War Z. Like hot stuff and I always imagined myself like what would I do? What would it be in that situation? And and this is kind of weird. But whenever I meet people one Benz through which I always look at them as I would have to be with them. Zombie Parker have with me would be the person make steal backstab me take my food and like shut. The Door. Like being chased by zombies. Because they don't want to let me in and I don't know why but it's getting a little bit creepy now. Because I do this for fun. Wires it kind of creeps me out. I don't feel it if you do the same thing but it's kind of no I have that same scenario. I always it always ends with me. Like I'm dead provide if you don't mind I don't want to subvert the format of this thing but I I would love to ask you do you like so. Why don't we do you? How do you think you would be Zombie Apocalypse? Would you be the kind of person that you would want? And would I be someone that you'd want in Zombie Apocalypse? And like when we kind of go around and just couldn't tell each other like at present recruit you in an instant harvest because because because we've actually seen you'll in like a game theory scenario already. You know what I mean like so In a situation like that like I would die. You'll one hundred percent on my team. I don't know if you You know almost like a like an offensive question. What it does is it sort of like you know if you were not somebody who we would. We would instantly want close at hand during a Zombie Apocalypse. I can only imagine like how to Phil's point how miserably useless would be like if there was some sort of draft picks or something Zombie Apocalypse. Right if you'll were not picked we would be like spare protein or something so that all said I think I'd probably I'd probably last a while. You know in at format if only because i i feel like i've i've a sense of i'm not far from tuesday proper but similarly like you say you'll you sort of like assess whether or not somebody might be potentially useful for team you'll in the end time I tend to kind of like you know. Make some decisions based on. Hey what if things go sideways in even like where I live in Los Angeles You know part of the reason. Why I I like the neighborhood? Ran is because it feels like a place that could be you know that it feels like a safe place a comfortable place to have kids especially right And I've got no my neighbors and they all seem like you know again. Great people to have on your side in case Massive unrest slash. You know breakdown of civilization occurs that sort of thing kind of you know kind of thanking my my decision right now for that just because this is hopeless it's going to get to that scenario But yeah you know it's like I think I'm conscious enough of the worst case scenario for a lot of things that I'm I'm trying my best to be aware and resourceful where necessary resources her documentary back up. You know and and be conscious of what could happen if things go wrong how you feel but we. I'm not just talking about like how useful you possible temperament and character right. She's like you might be with somebody who's like amazing like killing the zombies but if the guy's an asshole you wanna be like hanging around him especially they're going to be like the Alpha Dog and like beat you down every day and like Makita slave right so like one of the things about you know again like this kind of goes back to the theme of surviving like there's something about putting yourself in a very difficult situation that really makes you take a hard look at yourself and so you know. There have been a number of experiences survivors. One of them. But the others where I felt like under so much pressure that you don't have any excuses it's like the the stories you tell yourself the way. He portrays all that kind of breaks down. And when when when things get really hard it really forces you to see yourself for who you are and you get a better sense of what how you respond to those type situations. Come talking more along those lines. If you were in a really hard situation it was a matter of life and death like. Would you be the kind of person that you would want there with you? You know unlike how. How do you think you'd smart stuff like that? I think I think I would rise to the challenge. I but I like I said before in terms of actual basic survival skills zero. I think I would be A. I think it would be a great person. That'd be very affirming and You know I. I think I would have that Sense of of you know like rising to a challenge but I always think but I always think about like. I don't know how to swing an axe man. That's obviously sticking hypothetical. Okay say okay. You have a safe. We're safe apartment. It's like barricade autumn stuff. I go on a run to get food right. Okay so I leave the safety of nest and then suddenly you hear me going to open the door on my ass. The Doorman GonNa let me. You'll you'll I would. I would let you in man root for you No I I would. I would definitely let you in and We'd we'd I'd figure out a way to Figure out a way to to knock that Zombie offer offer but but then since you've been bitten back that's next question like How long will it be before all right? This is this is where we're we're we're sort of wandering off into territory. Where the trolley problem that we live in already is group but okay. So let's let's go round and Do the last round and Again we want clean up with you. You'll so I'm going to ask Phil to come up with your devotee F- around surviving and being a survivor and then I'll go and then you'll we'll have you Lock and load. This is kind of the same ballpark of what? We're talking about But watching survivor again in watching sort of how everybody plays and from the physical challenges to also the sort of strategic mind you have to have I always think like I I would I would. I don't think it'd be very do very well on survivor. Just most aspects of it. No the discomfort but honestly the strategy part of it. I'm not very good at that kind of kind of play. Honestly like deceiving people forming alliances and like trying to like Guess what people's moves are like. I'm not a great chess player. You know in that respect so I always say I wouldn't do very well survivor but it leads me to think the question the WTO is like well. What reality show. Would I do well at Org game show or reality show would do well on And what would I have a fighting chance of being on you know the only one I can think of is something like The amazing race I'd have to have like a really great partner. And then it's either that or like some sort of Trivia competition which only they only ask questions about like eighties nineties. Pop puck culture. And that's it. How do you think you do on Amazing Race? With Jeff. Just kill each other or would you guys kill it. I think I do I do okay. I think we would do. I don't know like I think we do all right. Actually not none of the thing about it. I'll I'll say it right here if anybody's recruiting for a post Post Cova Amazing race or something where we want to run an end. Ninety five masks like a I mean. I think actually do pretty well. I I think a lot of it unless we look even survivors. Actually they. They emphasize a physical in some ways. Just you know from the The abstraction of it right but it feels to me like a lot of the most successful players are people who are are able to problem solve obviously and who have the ability to negotiate complicated human dynamics amazing race similarly except that you know it's much more about your dynamics with one other person and you know again problem solving on the fly while you're going kind of station station I think we'd be pretty good that. Yeah I think I could handle the problem solving. And sorta that on the fly thinking. It's actually the the within group dynamics of like navigating navigating that stuff which I don't think I'd be very good. That's why survivors out for me. well we will have again if any was out the recruiting fillon. I would will head out for the next season. So you guys would like get on each other's nerves you guys get along in handle stress won't together inevitably when you're with somebody in those high stress situations. Maybe I would break but I I actually I am. I think we'd get along actually pretty well in that. Yeah I I wouldn't be concerned about that part. I do wonder though whether or not we kind of have so much. The same sort of overlapping skill sets and knowledge areas. That it'd be sort of like damn we pass the eighties and nineties Trivia thing. Now what else like? It's all it's all got ano- we'll see all right so I'll take a different twist on The W cf and that's So I actually texted Phil about this right before the The podcast I'm now. Starting to encounter the phase of two weeks in the face of this where whatever atavistic instincts of survival from my like wartime parents immigrant parents or setting in and I I encountered this opportunity to biscuit. Buy like a three by four cube of me. Like fifty pounds of needs for directly from wholesalers courtesy of a friend of mine. Who runs a restaurant? And you know these guys are like all the stuff we have to sell it and they're you know it's kind of a great deal and I'm like I'm down for killing that cow so you know we. We actually got a another refrigerator. Because we're going to do some you know before all this happened we're GONNA do some remodeling and so I reached out to talk like a still So know I know somebody who's WHO's selling like basically a room of meat. Are you interested in getting sick and creon thing to do man? We always fridge. Kimchi exactly. Yeah you know look you do what you gotta do. Right and I will say that you know. Asians have always been really good about ensuring that there's for backup space and good. Storage storage is key to survival. In general so yeah you know it's like I think we are kind of getting to the point. I mean I don't WanNA obviously be a hoarder of any sort but I've got a teenage boy and a soon-to-be teenage boy in the House who the throughput is incredible. Like just chewed. We're going through like COSCO orders. You know all the stuff we we'd kind of set you know brought in to to vault for the longest was going to go is pretty much like boom. They're big bear. Spots inventory and deliver services are getting less and less reliable. So yeah I'm I'm starting to think it's like do we start? Actually you know kind of like packing for the apocalypse now WTI F. It's more of a w t f about the fact that this is happening and also that I'm kind of like starting to mentally adjust to that as a reality if philly pack on my my kids had done to your house man. Beat we'll put you in a roof fourteen days but all right so here. We are bitter. It is you'll sir so WTO all right. So I'll just give you a W T.F. Question that's maybe kind of because I don't even know what I say but there's this one again what reason. I often kind of put myself in these scenarios okay. So here's here's here's a hypothetical right. If you we're GONNA be stuck on a desert island for the rest of your life with no hope of getting saved. Now you wouldn't be in fear of dying. There's enough abundant resources to make sure that you'll probably and you had to pick one person to be there with you. Who WOULD IT BE? It's actually a little bit more of a nuance question than you would think. Right because your spouse all right well I'll give you my answer. I would not bring my spouse because no absolutely not wife why would I consign her to a life stuck on a desert island plus I'd be depriving my kids. Their mother right lost their would've lost their father right right so I mean it's it's the simple answers of course like my wife wherever love but if you really think about it you're essentially like like it's like the worst thing you could do to a person right. Essentially like banishing them onto a desert island for the rest of their lives with no hope of being safe Yeah that's interesting. Yeah no I thought about this. I can't come to good answer. If you have one for example what are you doing for the rest of your rework and silly on this island? You're got to pick one person. And then you have. It chose mini talk. I told you I'm useless. I'm listening well. I you know so one thing. That's a you said earlier when we were just you know in advance of of of certain episode In our green were green room as You know that actually strikes me now so you know. I wonder how much you know being on an island like that like literally having to kind of survive in that that MoD forces you to sort of switch gears anyway right like anybody. You might not be the same person that you think they are once. They're in that mode and something that you said that you're using it got stuck on an island for the rest of the X. Men were stuck here together but one of the things that I think makes such a good player Besides the fact that you know obviously smart fits capable all that stuff. Strategic is my says that in a crisis situation you go into another gear. You actually kind of become more calm and together and a part of what supports that is the thing you said about. How like in normal life? You know you you said that you have some you know like you grind teeth and you know you have like anxiety issues in sleep and so forth but like when you're on the island. He said those things go way right. Yeah Yeah so one thing. That was really interesting is Most of my life I've Have Brexit my grand my teeth at night and a hat migraines is something that runs in my family but they're often very kind of like causal like I if I grind my teeth. I'll usually wake up like ninety percent of the time with a migraine and so one of the things that I absolutely dependent on. It's Kinda like my safety. Blanket is a night guard so I wear Corduroy night so that it prevents me from grinding. And if I don't have my card I will again. Ninety percent wake up with migraine. The first one survivor like I you know I caught doctors. No no admitted said. Hey I need to bring my night guard. It's medical thing they're like no you can't bring it like no no no. I really need it like if I if I don't my card. I'M GOING TO CHEW UP MY TOM. Migraines every day and I won't be able to play like no. You can't bring it so when it went on the island. I was totally freaked out because I was so sure I was gonNA get Migraines The funny thing is as soon as I got there literally the first night I start sleeping there. I didn't grab my teeth. Didn't have any migraines and the weird thing is the day I came back that night. I started grinding my teeth migrant again so you know like for the last thirteen years. I've been like okay. That was just kind of a weird thing that fluke and then when it went back this time I was wondering. I wonder if that's going to happen again and I thought that's not going to happen. It was priced some kind of a one off. The weird thing is exact. Same thing happened as soon as I got there. I stopped grinding. Stop having Migraines as soon as I came back men everyday I was getting his planning migrants. Now it's like what the Hell is going on so I try. I don't know exactly what happened but I do think there are. A number of factors came into play like one of them. I think is when you were on an island with no like artificial light. You go to sleep. When the sun goes down you wake up. This comes out so your sleep. Rhythms are perfectly aligned with their circadian rhythm right so I think that that helps and you're getting enough sleep. I think another thing is when you're out there. You're not eating much on when you're eating stuff. United in a lot of processed foods like everything is like pretty like basic natural food. Where's here there's so much like artificial processed food that I think it's also probably not great for your natural health. I think there's also something about you know when you're stuck on the island. You're stressed out like there's a lot of physical stressors in your violent like you're hungry you're cold you'd eat shelter all that stuff but it's a different type of stress in the encounter in modern everyday life right so out in the wild. If you're stressed out there's usually something concrete you can do about it like in a sense. We almost we evolved to deal with these stressors right. Overlake Millennia. Like our species evolved to deal with these basic stressors environment. Like you know like danger or lack of food we have to forward. You have to let bill fire all that kind of stuff. In modern life you're the number of stressors. Multiply these intangible Amorphous stressors that you can't concretely. Do anything about in the short term right so like financial stress or work stress or like identity stress. What am I doing with my life all that kind of stuff and I think it's exacerbated some cases by you know Kinda misuse of technology like I think technology has been this amazing kind of enabler like we're now. He do so many more things than living better comfort and higher standard of living than any of her forebears at the same time. It's multiplied the amount of kind of stimuli. That's exposed to you. Twenty four hours a day right and when you're out there when the most profound exprienced ahead was. I had nothing to do like I literally just sat there like you know like a long period of time and ahead this weird like it was not like an auto body experience. But it's like you know in my normal life A. I. Balkanized my attention across so many different things right. Even though like I'm talking to like one person or my kid in the back of my mind I'm thinking about that email. I need to get off a work. I'm thinking about this other thing. That kind of came in like their million things. I'm trying to multitask at once. When I was out there it was just me and I. It almost kind of felt like I was meeting all the bits of myself that had disappeared for a while K. We're all here together. We're all in the same skull and I felt a sense of like wholeness that I hadn't felt like thirteen years since the last time I'd been back on and since I've come back so quickly I got overwhelmed with like all the different things that have to deal with and so I think there's something about that I think there's something about living in nature and even though it is hard and you're just surviving in some ways that sort of the environment that we all deal with and in many ways I feel like we're male adapted to our current modern society. Wow Wow it's like thorough man. It's like a seriously survivor. Winner and philosopher. Well I think we. May you know if we do not watch ourselves. Finder sells very much In a situation where we have to appreciate that comments on So thank you for leaving us with that. As we prepare for a world in which civilization the longer no longer provides many of these comforts. Maybe my migrants will go away. When these I'LL BE APOCALYPSE ASSES WE'LL HUDDLE OVER AT HOUSE JEFF? And then we'll be in the shoes of meat in your dad about takes us to the end of this episode. You'll Klein thank you so much. Man It's R- it's really great to hang out with you. Yeah man it's been pleasure. It's it's great to catch up with the guys like both of you. Keep alive respect for so long. And you've both been such vocal advocates voices especially for the Asian American community. Like I really appreciate the work done. And it's been honored and pleasure to On your chest. Where can people find you online and also please shut up the whatever links we can't for the effort Again? We were running the campaign. I gotTa say we were really fearful that we were trying to launch a fundraiser. In possibly the worst time the past ten years but people having giving Inside just incredibly grateful if you want to donate go to www L. S. A. Dot. Org Ellis Association website so www dot a. l. s. dot org slash survivor. And then you can do any there if you wanna find me online You know it's funny i. I was basically all social media for many many years but because I wanted to kind of promote the campaign. I've much more active and it's been a lot of fun. I've I've just quite honestly been kind of letting loose with her and you know it's something that I've hidden from so many people especially the public because I didn't want to be ostracized as it turned out there. A lot of people out there on the Internet who are pretty a little bit kind of like off kilter like me. So if you WANNA find me on. Twitter is just At you'll underscore. Kwan can find me on instagram as well in and on facebook to excellent Jeff Yang. How About Yourself I am Original spin on twitter and huddling with Mike you meet a drink of Rick And yourself fill. Where are you in the digital sphere? You can find me at anger. Asia man on most social media and on angry Asian Man Dot Com. You can find. They call US Bruce ad they call us Bruce on social media. You could also hop on apple podcasts. And give us a five star rating or a review. We'd really appreciate it. It really helps people find the show that pretty much says it for this episode of they call spruce. I hope everyone is at home. Staying home. Saint healthy washing your hands and and surviving and thriving. Thank everybody till next year. Isa You've been listening to they. Call US Bruce with Jeff Yang and Phil You our theme music is by Carroll One. Our producer is Nick Song. They call Bruce's a member of the POTLUCK podcast collective featuring unique voices and stories from the Asian American community find out more at podcast hotline DOT COM and. Thanks for listening turn.

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1:14:18 hr | 4 months ago

100a: They Call Us Bao Nguyen

"Hello and welcome to another edition. They Call US Bruce unfiltered conversation, but what's happening? A Nation America I'm Phil You. And Jeff. Yang and we always say we have a very special podcast, but this podcast is particularly special, because it's actually one of two that together we're calling. Our one hundredth podcast are centennial podcast. Special supersonic. It's the PODCAST podcasts. BE THEY CALL US Bruce of big calls. Bruce's. And it makes sense that we are as a result going to focus on his to podcasts on kind of the economist figure behind our podcast. And as a result, we are incredibly fortunate to have with us. Bowed win! Who is the director of documentary for ESPN called water. Of none other than. Bruce Lee. Bow. Thank you so much for joining us and welcome to the podcast now it's a real honor to be part of it I remember when I was making the film and just seeing all the podcasts that. You guys recording. I I hope I get on this test with this. I. Guess. Dare you to put I? Can Get on the podcast. You. I mean come on, man you a documentary about Bruce Lee. That is our name Sake. And For the record. It is a legit documentary. It's Let me get out of the way and say I I'm so glad you made it and I'm so glad I watched it It's fantastic, so of course of course Rene on Dude. I will say that having Phil put his stand his sort of good housekeeping seal of approval. There is pretty amazing given the fact that. I think between the two of us. We certainly seen virtually every Read consumed I've drunk Bruce St. Artifact of the man himself, but Phil actually curated his life for winglets. Museum's exhibition on the man and. I mean. As somebody who's a lifelong myself and also somebody who? Just watching the film watching this documentary I. We're just saying before we came on on the actual broadcast. This the first document have seen which I think really puts Bruce Lee into context in ways that I I think he needs to be within the context of civil rights within the context of. The Post War era, within the context of coming off of literally decades of Chinese exclusion in a way that I don't think I've seen before and. To that especially well a day after the end of the Asia Pacific market, heritage months I got a tip my cap. I'm I'm very appreciative because. I. Obviously, the title of the Podcast I've known Phil for for many years in I've gone to the exhibition in Seattle and seeing Phil's name kind of right in after most of the. Pieces Sam He wrote all of it basically other than some things that Shannon wrote I would say burden, but I felt like a responsibility, especially TV Asian Asian American community to tell the story right of and just again. It's Bruce Lee and I I kind of. Transformed Bet responsibility in thought of it more as a privilege, the privilege to be able to tell Bruce's story in the context that you're talking about jeff to a larger audience that don't really know about Bruce Lee in this way. can we rewind a little bit like Can you talk about maybe your? Your relationship with Bruce Lee I think we're probably around the same age, so i WanNa, so maybe you could talk about like. What does Bruce What did Bruce Lee mead, you growing up? By. Thank I came into Bruce. Wor were came into my life in many ways. I was born ten years after enter. The dragon came out, so I wasn't necessarily like watching his films and. Urban Chinatowns I was watching them in syndication on Saturday afternoon Saturday night, television and recently was more of a name to be kind of this mythical figure than an actual person. Martial Artists were movie star, and I just remember being like eight or nine years old. And watching and seeing a briefly on screen in enter the Dragon, and just being blown away because all the depictions of. Of Asian Americans special. Asian American males were. Not, necessarily positive in terms of what how they were beating depicted onscreen in television and film they were either side kicks or villains or servants, and to see a someone who looked like me. be a leading man. Play a hero on screen was. Something that was on spiring, and from that day on i. just remember that moment as of seeing Bruce Lee, and over time I think with my generation the name again. Is a myth in a legacy and legend at a person, so that's a one of the reasons I made the Phil. I've gotta say it's at one of the really amazing things about this documentary. Is. Not just you got to speak to. Because you did speak to all of his baseball living contemporaries, you spoke to his family and you I think really again. Deepening contextualized it critically historically by speaking to film critics culture critics. Jeff Chang. But I really feel like you have images and footage, and our thanks in there that I've I've not seen four and. Especially going back into the years before he came the Bruce, Lee, we know right, or we think we know. It I mean. When you're actually looking, tell the story and tell it not of the legacy not of the legend but of the man. You had to. UNCORK has the historical bottle right in get access to footage are kind one otherwise. That probably was very tough to get. I mean okay before that. How did you first come to this project? And once you actually came this product? presumably were offered it. What were the first thing your mind about how you had to do this? To stand up the other. The other attempts to tell his story passed. So my last film, was about Saturday night live called live from new. York came out a few years ago and It was. It was a behind. The scenes look into Saturday night live. It was Kinda revolved around their fortieth anniversary, and how Saturday night live impacted American culture political culture, celebrity culture. And I bring up that film is. The reason. I bring up that because. I what I head of specific point into Saturday night live as immigrant American My parents Vietnamese refugees and they didn't let me watch a Lotta television. The only thing I was watching the news, the eleven pm news each night. As a kid, growing up in the eighties and nineties, that was kind of a dark way to learn about America. And and so you know Saturday was the one night I could stay up past eleven, thirty and media after the news with Saturday night live and. That was how I learned about Hop Culture American political culture, so that's how I approach my last fill and with be water. There's a connective tissue in that I. I like to look at kind of these. American iconic institutions cultural institutions that people think that they already know so much about. But what is the Lens set? I can bring as immigrant American as an Asian American. That's a little unique, a little different from what's been part of the conversation narrative about narratives about these institutions and. At the time. The AB White House documentary. Come out. There was a really great documentary about Marlon Brando Cutlass. Marlin, never really personal looks into these very iconic figures and I was just thinking like. An icon that I would love to see on a more personal level in recently immediately came to mind because again. My generation knows precisely. And to kind of unpack that mythology is something that I I try to do a filmmaker and that's kind of how the idea came about in. Until. into in a way, use it as as A. Conversation piece for the Asian American experience too because I figured what who's a better vessel, talk about Asian, American history and just. What. Our community has gone through them Bruce. Lee in a way. I was trying to hide the vegetables in the desert of precisely right. I've seen as as Jeff mentioned before. I've I've done a lot of reading watching. Kind of consuming a Bruce Lee. And you know there's been a ton of documentaries about him made about him by like different kinds of. Biopic of various quality There's been a lot of. Bruce Lee myth, making like telling of historically and you know this is definitely like the most decidedly asian-american take I've seen at this level you know. You definitely, get this insight into. We take it for granted. You know so the impact that Bruce Lee had, and how it's reverberated through across the decades and across the world actually. But putting it in in the timeframe that you do and and really showing that and digging deep in seeing sort of like what he had to go through, it really does put in perspective their true like trail-blazing that he was doing. We take for granted that you know so the action hero stuff, and but like I mean it was really. He had to fight this like one man battle. To really establish himself and I. and to see that from a true Asian American perspective in time we're. We're like still talking about. You know Asian Americans in Hollywood and all that stuff. It's pretty. It's pretty insightful. It's very cool. I mean I appreciate that because that was another one of the reasons I made fill the. Two Thousand Fifteen. Thousand Sixteen when I just came up with the concept and We, we constantly talk about inclusion representation as we should be and I wonder like in the nineteen sixties when the war was just starting and previous, the previous decade was the Korean War in decade before that was or to where the Japanese was seen as the enemy. How did someone like Bruce Lee with the asian-american face? Make it in Hollywood and when again when the face of the enemy is the Asian face. It made me think that's what I wanted to kind of dive deeper into like what were the struggles of recently like? How did he make it in in? Hollywood and I mean the tragedy is really that he did it. Make it in Hollywood until he died until after. Enter! The dragon premiered after his death and. One of the things. I wanted to feel too, is that? The tragedy of his death. Because there's we all know that he passed away or for the most part of snow that he passed away in New Zealand. every time I watched the documentary. It felt like it was just. It just happened right it was. I didn't feel like I knew precisely as a person. Enough for me to feel like it was tragic that it felt like a personal loss to the people that were talking about him in the cell, and that was another a goal of mine in making this film. I think that you know There's there's a sense in which. Bruce. Lee is like one of those. Figures who are conic in our community to the point that all of us at some point who engaged with being Asian American I think maybe especially. Asian, recommend. Eventually have to pass through some sort of engagement and understanding. of of what Bruce Meant. Bruce Means. I do feel like. There's something about the way the you present in this documentary that was. Really special in that. This wasn't simply. Wasn't simply treatment that. Sort of showed him as somebody who. was. Fully fourche. As Bruce Lee. This is kind of going back to that point about the looking at him in childhood, looking at him in his youth looking at. His emergence his growth. Even as a kid and as a kid actor for that matter. Looking at him on screen I mean I think a lot of people who are fans don't know that he was actually a very successful actor in Hong Kong. Long before he became martial arts are connery sunny martial arts, but you'll really saw those things special about him. Something magnetic and Everything as he grows older. You see this sort of the building of of this iconic figure. I'm kind of curious. As, you were actually going through all the different elements sifting through all the different things you could have included. Well first of all, where did you begin? How did you start accruing the things that can togetherness and What? What was sort of your. curatorial standard if you will, what will try to actually assemble in putting together his life, and can I also at? Is it, is it? It's my understanding that actually you started this before you. The involvement of of ESPN is that right or Yeah so this film was in development for two or three years before ESPN had signed on, we were working with certain broadcaster, but that fell through, and then it kind of a sat for a little while and producer Julian Nottingham. She was really pushing me to kind of get this project in Jesus. Like you know the story be told for Your Voice Bow, and I was pretty kind of down in the dumps about the project because I saw like. You know as you were saying. There's so many briefly documentaries and I was like what can I add and she was always pushing me and she was like. Why don't we talk to a couple of other broadcasters that? Maybe we didn't think about before? ESPN came up in conversation. It wasn't immediate to me that he has. This would be a type ESPN facility film because. I. You obviously Bruce Lee is kind of A. Many ways he's a lot of things right He's a movie star. He's A. Father Martial arts icon, but in terms of like being sports like competitive sports figure I never put him in the same category as like a Michael, Jordan After watching Being a huge fan of thirty for thirty series I, realize like sports is just. It becomes part of the background of the story. The foreground is something deeper. Something Nuance about society. Air About. the individual and. And we approach ESPN nature jumped on it right away and I give them a lot of credit for just. For having faith, knowing that there's been a lot of documentaries in lot of narratives about briefly, the pass and yeah, they've been great to work with than said. To Answer Jeff's question. For me it's. I always get one. Put my invoice not literally in the film, but avid come from a place of. In personal experience and Again as an American male I never felt like. That story approves had been told and I think. Bruce has become such a global icon. that everyone takes ownership of him in because everyone takes ownership. His origins kind of get lost and I wanted to think of him as as that guy who came over to left on Kong with one hundred dollars in his pocket, and had the same journey that my parents had I mean my parents when they were in a refugee camp, they were in Hong Kong and then they came to America, so there's like a lot of parallels that I try to think of when I was building the story. The way that I felt was that was most intimate in that I've connected with and. So I. Kind of two thirds of the film. Wine is like the coming of age of Bruce. Lee Bruce became Bruce Lee and then coming history of how. The moment where Bruce Lee is rejected in Hollywood like. Why is an Asian American male not allowed to be a star in Hollywood in you know it goes back to all the different things that I I try to discuss in the film. The Chinese Exclusion Act Model Minority Myth. And it's just this. Is Confluence of stereotypes that are created from. From. Things that we we we That are evident in our foreign policy in the ways that we treat. Others Immigrant Americans immigrants And that kind of the stereotypes that of repatriated. Through Hollywood, it's just a suspicious cycle where what you see in Hollywood is what how people think people in society are and how people aren't societies how they're depicted in Hollywood right and so I always wanted to converge those two ideas of the coming of age in the coming of history, and that's that's kind of how I built the original idea still and to understand. Anyone's coming of age. You have to go where that curse lived in talk to the people who knew him best and that was very. Deliberate from the beginning that I wanted for the most part to talk to people who knew him intimately. This film wasn't about his legacy. It wasn't necessarily about how he changed the world or change history. It was about Bruce the person, and that meant going to Seattle. Going to you know the bay going to La going to Hong Kong and talking to people that have some people have never spoke to him on camera. One person who I think is. Is was the most insightful with amy. sandbelt his first gloves in America right and For there's you know there's a lot of people who say they know everything about received, but how many people have talked his I love America right. And not not to sound like to hurt in any way, but I think. I learned that how much the people that he met in his second return to America A, in fifty nine sixties of taught him. It wasn't Bruce. Lee is always known as the teacher right teacher martial arts to Steve McQueen and to Kareem abdul-jabbar. But when he came to America, he was very much a student of everyone that he met as well because that's how he learned about America through cleverer, who was a? You know his first student, but. But was also a victim of police brutality, and I think that really informed his worldview in his deal of America and then Amy Sambo who was a in the internment camps during World War Two in that help for Bruce Lee's identity of what it meant to be Asian. American, not just to be Asian and then obviously Kareem, later on in his life really taught him about the civil rights movement about black liberation, and all these things really. I took away that Bruce's a student as much as easily teacher he was. You know he's a sponge absorbing water as much as he was being water. Act WanNa say so I knew that any SAN low existed I knew that she was his first love. Of course I'd never seen her her her interviewed about this. I really felt like that segment. Where or the series of a quotes us from her in the conceptualization of incarceration, you know of Japanese Americans as part of Bruce's. If you will education America was incredibly powerful because it really did. Crystallize this notion. That, he wasn't. In Asia icon by accident that in some ways a lot of the things that that Fort Him as the Bruce Lee we know. Are Some of the same things that we continue to encounter individually. Asian Americans and the history is that we continue to learn synthesized from across. A gamut of experiences right many Dennis these in different races now. The very fact that he was. So close to somebody who. Was Japanese American right was both Japanese and American in that context and. Obviously. there. Are you know a lot of reasons why in in China and Hong Kong? Both Japanese people at an American people were probably held little suspect so for his his first. Real. Heartfelt relationship with somebody who? Was Japanese American is is something that is significant and the way she talked about her was him in the way that she as you pointed out educated him. I think. It just it brought to light things that I had not thought about regarding what went into his mind, not just his body and and his screen presence. You know I. I really love that like hearing about that part of his life when he first gets to Seattle and in the dog. It's so funny because you know you consider. You can nail it when you say that. All these people sort of informed his. His adult. Education. We think of Bruce Lee's like the coolest. Dude right. You, know like his persona. His is kind of celebrity persona became like this. Justice like like this icon of cool in style, but I love this I. Love the idea that Jesse Glover kind of taught him how to be like to care himself on the street like to be You know just to be more like on street level. And it reminds me of my one of my favorite images of bruises is his. Is Him and his like martial arts cohorts of that era where he the guy who is teaching and and fooling around with doing all the you know. The gyms, backyards and stuff like that. It's like this multicultural coalition you know and he's. He's like he was like a true bridge builder, and in a lot of ways like you really see this like Asian American identity truly forming during that time it's it's really kind of inciteful. That's one of the things that I took away to is that he was able to be in all? These really multicultural communities diverse communities at just in America, but in Hong Kong. He grew up the Hong Kong at the time. Was You know this is? A hub of trade for Asia instill is obviously but just his interactions, all different people in wanting to share his culture of one of the lines that says is that he always wanted this share the beauty of this Chinese culture to the world right and I think that heart is really It just felt really. Connected it to to it so much because. Again as as a as a Asian American the son of immigrant Americans, you're always trying to figure out where your place is in how you belong, but also where you came from, and I think he found that perfect balance of using his through his martial arts, and sharing that with with Jesse with Leroy and with Taki all these people that's how he connected with them and connected with America that he was in China tied in you know. Take away anything from his past, but just showing himself for who he was in an at the same time that they were doing the same in in teaching him about being cooler of. 'em How to drive a car. Shoot a gun or things like that. That are very American, and I think that is the beauty of kind of multiculturalism that we forget about today starting Thursday Siren. going. Everywhere all the time. It's the. It's the reality of the moment, my friend. And, so it's in a way. The film is kind of this. Argument for multiculturalism for a diverse America because. With diversity you can someone like Bruce. Lee is is the model American, and that's a beautiful thing and I hope people take that. Take Take that away from the film and they watch it. So. I want to actually a confront the title you know. It's obviously one of bruises. Sayings be water. Be like water, right? But. The way that he spoke about it was from the context of how water is both. Given right you can, you can punch watering. It does not change just returns to its form, and also it is penetrating can basically cut through anything given enough time or not force one of the things I think I take out of your documentary. And even when we're talking about here is something else about water, which I think is I mean literally this I thought about it and. It bounces off this idea of Bruce as kind of having this. Avatar like Asian American experience, right having born here, but having to go away to find himself and come back again. You know coming back here and immersing himself learning to learning to America basically right, but then fighting that he was not truly allowed to succeed in the society, having to find himself elsewhere in case going back to Hong Kong on to Hong Kong in order to. Embrace of both his culture and also. An opportunity to to create himself, but the thing about water that that to me really stood out here. Is this notion that water? Water blends it immerses it when you bring water into other things, it synthesizes those things right if you put a bunch of things in water, the altar of melt into the water in the water is. Informed by those things and when you look at. The history of his life. As. Put together this documentary. You really do see that that every piece of his life was meaningful. As short as life was to was the fact that his first student was an African. American man the fact that he did. Bring together the diverse group of people. And taught them something which. which he was both inventing and also kind of bringing synthetically again for many different routes if he'd learn himself. There's a real sense in which the emblematic nature of water as something that. Melts things to synthesize things that you know is a unifying force in some fashion. Is Powerful theme in in the documentary made is just read of it, but it feels to me something that. To me. Tells me something about what we need to be. As Asian Americans today. Right that if we are to the water, we are to learn how to American and learn how to be. Asian American learn how to be Asian in Diet than diets. Pork Asian world. That ability to flow and to immerse and then to. Bring things together into one. I mean that's what we. I mean I'm I'm glad you bring up this point because I think a lot of people who some peop- I should say some people who see the film. Don't kind of get the connection to quote in the film itself in Bruce's life a they see it in just this very singular ways again. This is a quote. He said they don't necessarily tie it to to. How he lived, his life, said also for me I. Think, it's important to think of I. Mean With everything you said Jeff I think for me like. Is kind of this metaphor for water right. To how we hit these rocks like away, we're hitting a rock now at the present time, and how throughout the film Bruce Hips, these rocks in America or Structurally the film pixies moments like. China exclusion actor, Japanese internment and civil rights, and those are things that America. Crashes into them, and we feel that crash vary visibly in viscerally or somehow finds a way around it and keeps on progressing. I think Pru saw that, too, like when? Let's say the rock of night getting. The lead in gum food, right and him deciding to go to Hong Kong and he so he's finds a way to kind of get around that. And it's always progressing. There's never stagnation help pre sought about his life and for me. That's what that's how I personally think about America that it's a it's a continually evolving experiments That's still really young and trying to find its identity and There's moments like the moments that we're going through right now. The The incident in Minnesota and people finally realizing the plight of African Americans in how they've been treated. So poorly inhumanely by. Almost everyone in America and but how do we look at this moment it? How do we find a way to get around? It be fluid and not thinking. This is the end that we always have to be kind of optimistic about where we can go next as an American people. Can I ask before we start moving into? Our are the second half of the show. Can I ask about just so when you start to make this movie? You know a lot of people in the film are people have seen in other sort of Bruce? Lee People talking about Bruce Lee being interviewed about briskly. There are people close to him and surrounded him in his life. When you start a project people and be like a making a documentary about Bruce Lee. What happens like? Do you have to show your credentials like I mean like people because I'm sure that happens all the time. People are like approaching these people about interview him about about knowing Bruce. Approaches you had to talk to Linda and Shannon like. What's what what is it that what happens is like you're the next guy who wants to make a Bruce Lee doc, so. Like, what exactly like what are you met with when that happens? Yeah, I mean obviously there's plenty of people who approached Linda and Sharon and most everyone that I spoke to, and you're like. Yeah, another Bruce Lee documentary I I've made my peace with story passed away forty plus years ago and What one more year to say about Bruce and Again I came in with a very personal approach to the film like. Me As an Asian American I have never seen. Story Bruce Lee told in. That lightens and. In terms of the conversations specifically about representations, the struggles that he had to go through. Not Making it about his legacy or impact. Because for the most part since everyone knew him so intimately, and personally, the conversation about legacy and impact is kind of. Moot to them because. They live. They know him so well that it's. A they don't think of him as a mythological figure, these think of him as Bruce, right and I think again by having this specific approach that I followed through on. When making the so when conceptualizing the film? it. It opened their ice. Okay, this is a side of Bruce that may be hasn't been told, and I was fortunate enough for a lot of people towards of from the interviews. Telling me you know those are the questions that I've never been asked before. Tracy to think like people whose are gave the known as being frightens Bruce Lee right instead of being their own. Fully Ford person and they had. They answered questions that have never been asked in forty years so that I think that helped guide a lot feature interviews of the questions that I was asking about him. Well. You've had that approach that he was always learning. Not Teaching I think that's important. Afraid because I'm sure they've been a lot about. What have you learned from Bruce Lee. Would gain from your exposure to, but it's probably was the first time. They've been asked. What did he came from? You! Yeah I think that's what I definitely got out of. Conversations in I think. It was I want. These, people who'd new Bruce Lee are all. Part of this American story part of Bruce's Americans story, right? They're not just there as a way to push their. By a certain agendas who Bruce Lee was or what we think he is, but again kind of forming. His insecurities in his vulnerabilities. Fears like that was the question. I always ask people like did Bruce ever talk to you about what he's scared of like? Going what Bruce Lee scared of I, don't think anyone really has asked right Suction that he's this invincible figure as we were talking about earlier like this model of masculinity and confidence split. You know he was. Scared. Teenager young man going about to go to America, he was. Near the end of his life that he didn't know that was near the end of his life. He told his brother that he was scared of growing old. In those all kind of helped create this picture of who Bruce Lee was a person that he wasn't in intensive. And when we're able to to make our heroes in seemingly are. God like figures from culture into humans than I think we're able to. Be Closer to them, and we can aspire to be like a more because we can see our own faults and vulnerabilities in them. Can I just say that? One of the one of the few people that you have in the film that never knew Bruce is who's providing commentary. Is Jeff Chang? Not Jeff Yang. But Jeff Chang and I gotta say like He. He's commentary really elevates the peace a lot I mean aside from sort of the intimate details that other people provide his contact the context that he brings. Is. Super Important, and I really commend you for including them in there. Because it's, it's It's very insightful. Thank you. I mean he was. He was one of the few exceptions that I made. We may two exceptions is Samho, was the film critic and then the other is jeff and I know Jeff. During Research for a biography about Bruce Lee and I've known jess just through his books about racial history, hip hop and I thought. It was important that if we're going to tell the Asian American story of Bruce Lee, than At least the people who speak from A place of expertise about Asian American, history about racial history should be Asian. American just so we get that that voice That, we don't usually here especially in a research documentary and I'm fortunate now for Jeff. was. He helped me in terms of guiding. how Bruce Lee's life connected to you the greater story of the Asian American. And it was always important for me not to be didactic about like okay. This is the part where we're GONNA listen to Asian American history, and if feels kind of out of place the film. No, it was at it always at the Inter we like. How did this moment in American history? Connective Bruce's life. And how was he shaped molded by that right? It doesn't hurt that. You Know Jeff's perspective on aged American history is filtered through a much broader multicultural Lens. He's a preeminent scholar of hip hop. and. Somebody who has? Written about and thoughtfully. Educated about. This larger conversation around race for decades and That census that ability to like water you know, bring these things together, something which. You couldn't have picked somebody better tax. Speak to that a and you worked with Jesse. Four right I mean. You. I believe. He collaborated on the documentary series around some of the works that he'd been. Last year I, Directed and produced. A. Series for PBS that was for PBS TV that was based on his of. Collection of essays called we gonNA. Be Alright and But in funny enough, it was a Bruce Lee was what brought us together the first place? That I was developing his documentary and I knew that he was doing research for a biography, but he's still writing. The book in my film is just coming out. And then we had made another that other series before the Bruce Lee. A. Piece of literature in film came out. which is just kind of like how how much? Felt that we? We had to be really delicate and responsible with the material that we were working with interns as of making anything about roughly. I got one more question about sort of the formal qualities of the film before we move onto the. To our second half. You this really interesting thing where you have all these voices talking very intimately about Bruce but there you don't put them on his talking heads throughout the whole thing, it's just you have the little. Kyron this voice of Voice of Diana. Sato but. You kinda save it for the end where you do get to see like Nancy Kwan and stuff like that but I wonder what what what? What is the decision that you were like I'm not I'm not gonNA. Make this talking head type documentary for me. It was like a decision that I made pretty early on in the process before we started filming. That I didn't want. To feel like we were talking about something in the past and I always wanted the audience viewer to feel immersed in the present time with Bruce be nineteen sixties, America, or early nineteen seventies, Hong, Kong and for me every time or not, I shouldn't say every time, but a lot of times when I watched documentaries in were talking about a story that happened way back in the. The past, and then we cut to this really high resolution modern day footage a takes me out of the story, just a little bit, and you know there's certainly times where it's effective, but I felt with this movie and this story that we're talking about US in their twenties, who lives to his early thirties were talking to people who are in their late seventies into their eighties and. When you see someone who's in their eighties, talking about someone in their twenties, it's. disconnect right and I wanted to really build at world of of of that time period and I think it's for me is if there was this feeling of poignancy when you finally see people at the end and when I. Was Thinking about this portrait where we see Bruce with these people. It shows that they actually knew him. And then we cut back to show them in their present day of. Age I thought like. We kind of think of what would Bruce Lee, look like as a contemporary right. What would look like in his eighties seventies? That is that was something that was very cognizant about throughout the wholesale. On that note, I think this is time for us to take our break. But when we return, we will do our signature segment the good, the bad and the WF so stick around. Let's take a break. but we're still here. And we're going strong. It's an exciting time of Asian Americans. There are more movies. TV shows books and music, reflecting us than ever, but all of these represent just a small slice of Asian American culture experiences. So what do we do? Tell more slices. Asian Americana show. That explores these slices of distinctly Asian American culture and history. We've talked about how Chinese Americans Built California? Sacramento Delta the art scene Turns Gallery institution giant robot. A play that explores the loss Cambodian. Pop Music of the Sixties and seventies, and of course Boba just to name a few stories. You can find Asian Americana Asian. Americana Dot, com or on your podcast APP. Didn't todd. And we're back all right now. It's time for us to do our second half. They Call US bruce the signature segment, the good, the bad and the WPF Jeff, Yang, would you please lay down the rules of engagement? That is my role I shall. So. This is our ask. Phil said segment. It is round table segment in which we essentially take a certain topic what the topic is and slice it three ways. The first is the positive aspect of that topic I think it makes us feel good, warm, fuzzy inside the positive, the positive positive, always accident deposits and then. We flip it go to the negative. What is the bad about that topic? It could be a bad experience related to it bad memories or even just. A bump in the road in a germ. And then finally we looked at the devotee F-. And for us? That's neither necessarily good nor bad. It's more the thing that leaves us puzzled the questions still have we consider the topic at hand and for this episode. We thought it was pretty appropriate to ask you how. The good and the bad and the W. Of Mickey. Water right making a documentary on the life of a guy who has been in his thirty two plus years. That's. A, million different ways, good and bad and sometimes PF. So we're GONNA. Throw to you, and of course will comment on what you share, but if you're good it, let's dive in to the good the bad off mickens documentary. Okay. I get a little personal here because we. Matured into like an OPRAH EPISODE OF I. When I was coming when I was starting production of the film I, just come from a kind of a heartbreak in my life and I was looking for direction and I. One of the first interviews we did was the Amy Sambo. Interview and she talked about their relationship Bruce's relationship with her, and how she broke his heart, and making connected for slee in like he found his way after that and. Maybe. This is also deputies than I find my way after heartbreak and really find the direction that I need to go to to make the be the best individual I can be in Yeah, and so that was I I, it's not so much I want to be like always bringing it back to my narrative or by personal story, but it just helps me kind of create something that feels honest. And Authentic as much as I can, and and put that in a nuance way into filmmaking, and I think that helps me in terms of how I looked. Bruce's following his relationship with Amy San bill his drive in his struggles after that and just trying to create empathy in to empathize with someone like Bruce Lee were again. You think of him as? The coolest superhero in the world. I think that creates that. I was always looking for in the film. Hope. That's in the right direction that you're. Absolutely! I have to say though right that you're saying. That makes me wonder what it felt like years afterwards look back and say I was. I was the woman who. Basically kicks. Bruce Lee. It's like. He he proposed to her right I, mean he? Wow. Did you ask her what her. I mean after the fact. Whether. She I mean I. I don't know how cool it is. Even say that, but did you ever regret the decisions she made and I were. What where? She now guess what she's doing. I mean it seems like she didn't regret it. was. I'll get to the bad part later, but. She was she had a really beautiful family. A very quiet life. In Arizona and she never really thought about Bruce that way in terms of she I think she was proud. That bruce became the man that he wanted to be that. Bruce became Bruce Lee in. That's what he aspired to be. He always had this great ambition firm South and. I think maybe that great ambition was also one of the reason. She broke up with him. So I don't think she regrets it that much, but she I think she appreciates like what he did for Asian American representation because she'll is very much A. Activist in. Really spoke about the issues of the Asian American on campus when when they were day, and so she I think she takes them credit as she should for for his his his kind of. Rolling, being Asian American icon. That's awesome. Speaking of. People who've crossed? Young Bruce Lee's life. His Path I. I, I met Somebody who story about his dad, his dad apparently was like Bruce Lee's roommate for like two months or something like that. Up in the bay area. During the time when? He was opening schools. He was opening a school in Oakland I. Guess so he was. You know spending some time and so he was his roommate and. He says that so this is my friend's Dad. He says that. He was like who is this guy? This guy is so weird. 'cause he was always training and doing stuff in the apartment like like like doing these like high kick jump things and he's like who the fuck is this guy a? Like. If you read anyway Bruce Lee I mean. Like know him as amazing larger than life figure who became like one of the most famous people of all time but like. If you're that guy? But you're just like living in an apartment in San Jose like you're a Weirdo. You know what I mean like. If you're acting like that, so it's just funny to see like he was. He was too big for that for like. You know that Senate right. He had to grow that for people to really appreciate his. His eccentricity. You know so. You're basically say he's like Jimmy. Oh character Silicon Valley. That would be the mater urging. Needs. Jianyang. We we actually we should approach Jimmy and say we would love you to do. A Web series called. Bruce Lee my remain. But that. That's amazing. That's amazing, amazing artifact. Of kind of proximate history. That you're much commute for for. All right, so the good, the good is that. Bruce Lee helped us get over heartbreak. You. Write about Adamson. He helped a lot of people. Get over heartbreak or That's not untrue frankly. All right the bad now let's let's hit the bad of making this documentary in. The must have been something along the way. That was a the very least a stumbling block. But you had looted something already in the last go round. What was? No I mean. I totally forgot. To now so. She just. I was like Oh. You know what must've been liked to be. The woman who basically kicked to the curb like I'll get to the bad later. Okay, I'll try to bring it back to that, but in terms of making the film the Bad I think you know again. There's so many people who. Take ownership of previously right and. May Have their own entry points how they first were introduced bruce, so there's a lot of assumptions a lot of. Of of ideas of who was in what received people and my film. I didn't take that responsibility to try to navigate in like the true to every possible scenario with Bruce Lee met to to two people end so Flint With all these fans in and working with in making a film about someone who's so iconic. There was a burden I sell again a responsibility to to tell his story accurately but. You know in film school I by the East coasters so school in the East Coast. They teach you. You should each it. They give yourself as the only audience that matters which sounds very east coast for Texas straight, and then I know in the West. Coast schools are like always think of the broader audience. For me what I take away from that lesson in film school. Is that the way to make a story feel on is that you have to tell it from place within your own heart in your experience, and so that was always kind of my guiding principle making the film, but there were always every time I told someone reading the Sylmar doing research. People are like Oh why why do you get to make this film? Or how are you the biggest bruce lease ad in the world or Do you watch every still like ten times over and. Again as maker I I don't like to come in with too many sometimes I. Don't want to be the expert going in two before i. make the film because I wanted to discover a lot with the audience of. Things about the subject that I'm learning what I'm talking to people when I'm talking to people who knew him intimately who knew again newest fears, insecurities and Yeah there again. That pressure was something that was. Not The best pressure, but you know they say that pressure makes diamonds and I always tried to use that as as a way to think about the the responsibility that I had in telling Bruce's story in a way that sound odd to me and honest to him as a person and not so much trying to like satisfy. Everyone who seen every film in seeing every piece of footage because. This is not a definitive story about is. You can't make a definitive story about anyone in film I think. It's a an someone as cottage. In multifaceted focused on one specific aspects that felt that was under told in his narrative. And also that felt oddest to my experience as an Asian American. Can I ask have asked Linda and. seen the film and. Get the reaction. A Shannon. Yes, saw a cut of the film and I have to say like. Even though their voices are very prominent in the film, this film was not other than than providing archival footage and photographs which you know without that we have made the still. They were controlling over the story that I wanted to tell or or you know had say in the final cut or anything, but I felt just. As a person who's making a story about someone's father air so? Someone's husband that I wanted to show my respect by showing a cut of the Phil, and yeah I showed Shannon a cut of the film and she thought. It was something special in. Linda hasn't seen the Soviet, so she'll be seeing for the first time. The Sunday. And so yeah. It think it was important to be able to to be respectful to the family, but. I think they reciprocated that respect by allowing me to tell the story I wanted to tell. About Bruce. I think that kind of answers a little bit of what? I was wondering around how you've got access to. Some of the stuff that's in the documentary. I imagine a lot of it is from. The archives I. I will say one of the things said that blew my mind. A little bit was when you had the. Exactly it wasn't a call sheet, but outlet that sheet that showed the salaries. Of the different people working on on being it, and the showing that Bruce was like not even getting paid is getting paid a fraction of what. Even though he was second bill, right second the call she. Like the fourth and fifth people or something were making like multiples what he was making. US getting paid like as much as stuntman right and he was. The Co Star of of the series in that just. Shows you just in that one document like how? The inequity of Hollywood is is is is present. In all aspects of the industry. Was that something you actually got from the family. Was that something you you research elsewhere? That was from the family. Yeah, wow, so. I mean to the point you made about this. Not being not intentionally being definitive Bruce Lee documentary I will say it is definitive until next definitive documentary comes out. You know what I mean it's. Part of what makes. The story so interesting. Story of all people who play this kind of particular iconic role people who like water right continually reflect new things seemingly adapt move into shapes and who essentially. To that point reflection. Are. They look different based on where we are not based on who they were right. Wanting when we didn't get a chance to talk about in the first segment, which I want to ask, foregoing the final round of this. Is The contemporary relevance of Bruce League. I think in this very moment. Right a moment which I mean. You're trapped in La because. Of of the the coronavirus, right? And at the same time, all of us are are under lockdown within lockdown because there's unrest everywhere. Understandable uprising because of. The sweeping injustices that have occurred to African Americans in this country and. You know just throwing it out. There I mean it feels very relevant that this film is coming out even though this film about. A Chinese American man from decades ago. The way that I think this story is told just sir feels like there's a message that we need to hear day within the context of these things so that we're facing these these multiple crises were facing I think. When we finish, the film premiered at Sundance in January so everything that would covid the pandemic. That was something that obviously never expected to happen and and I always wanted to just. Show Bruce Lee for someone who went through a lot of. Racial strife who had to. Face up to. A lot of challenges because of what he looked like in where he came from and. With covid and End End the idea of what it means to be American. And especially for Americans are we. Is this not our Ho- to go back home because? The fear and paranoia that's created by centuries is a phobia. Racism and I think now more than ever. The idea of representation onscreen is important because we are stuck in our homes for the most part, and and we are not allowed to interact with with people around us were not allowed to have to face interaction, so the society that we're seeing is a society that were absorbing through the television through. You know. Through streaming and through our screens. And it's it's so important that the society that we're seeing onscreen is representative of of a multi. Cultural America of multifaceted narratives and I think. We. We kind of neglect, the fact that television films music and culture have so much impact on our society, but when we're stuck at Hogan, where kind of yearning for human connection, those are the things that we turn to and so I, think in addition for. US as Asian Americans ourselves on screen in many different narratives. It's it's important that other people from other communities see us for all the different versions where we are not just the psychic, not just the. Heavily accented servent it's the these different narratives. Be It good or bad? That make us part of America part of the mosaic of America. It's so important again that that we're seeing in not just a single story, so that that that idea of representation is I get the more relevant today and going to what's going on with the injustices with the African American community and With what happened in Minnesota You know again it's we'll look at people, and we see people before we are able to meet that we see them as African American and some people see African Americans as a dangerous society without knowing anything about that person and I think that's the total. Of help. Bruce Saul people right when he met Jesse when he met Leroy when he met. Kareem and all these people that look different from him. He wasn't trying to find the differences. He was finding ways to bridge. The differences to make a connection and I think we need more of that that solidarity in the conversations that Bruce had with Kareem, and how Korean taught him about the civil rights movement and introduced him to a lot of black literature like those are kind of the intersection allergies that we need today. that again like the. Progress of Asian, Americans wouldn't have come about without. The struggles that the African American community had to go through it to help us. Earn our civil rights and we. It's I. Don't want to place it back on the Asian. American story with we, we do find ways to connect in each other and find common ground and I hope people get that from this film that. Bruce was trying to find common ground. Always in terms of people from different aspects of his life will said we'll said. Well, here we are. The final round of. Our signature segment the phone. So if there's something. something. That boggles the mind something that was unusual. An anecdote can share perhaps about the production, or about putting it together or just you know more philosophically something that continues to. Have Open questions for you. This is your chance to share about, but can i. just add something onto the last part just. Your I mean you just mentioned too about lake, the stories of how? You. Know there there. There's GonNa be another up really early. There should be I think everyone deserves to tell their story about anything and. When we were editing the film in London. there was this young woman who was working as a receptionist at our post production studio, and she was in her early twenties. Achieve when the final days workout facility she's like. Like you've been here a lot, what's the film that you're working on Oh own doing assume about Bruce Lee. The guide, martial arts sky, and it's like yeah, and she's like Ozzy Kinda. Come in and watch the film. Again there. Everyone has entry point into Bruce Lee and you know there's people from older generation who saw his films in the theater. And then there's people like. my generation, your generation Phil who knew about him? After he passed away and there is this other generation of today that just neil him. Purely as martial arts buys the name Bruce Lee with any other kind of context and so. That was part of the reasoning behind making this film. Thinking not to say this is like my generation previously documentary, but this is my Bruce Lee's. Story Tech to my generation, right. Say I just wanted to throw in there as while we're talking about how the briefly has kind of evolved and His narrative has changed over time. That's. Right Sorry. Is that your W.. F., or is that just a Denham to that was it was funny because I was thinking of that as when we were first starting the segment, I was thinking that was going to be my. Moment, and then you brought up a generational thing and I was like Oh that's good for this partout, but it is. It is my w T F. I mean. So we should talk about the film I it. It's appropriate that this is going to be on ESPN, that's that's a big stage and. This generation is going to get this documentary in a really cool way. I mean much like we've talked about this in a previous episode, but I feel like this generation for for whom Bruce Lee. Is The story of Grizzly has defined by Dragon. The Bruce Lee Story. You know like you grew up in the nineties like. That became kind of like the document by which you kind of were introduced to the as as as bullshit. The, the factual parts that fillmore! The spirit of Risley. A Lotta people learn about him through that you know. I think that this commentary. ESPN, being the platform that is and thirty for thirty, being such a great brand. This is going to be a really great way for people to just learn that this story, and of course your film is so well made. I think people are really blessed to see this this week. You know, thank you ever really appreciative of that. Because Dragon was kind of my one of the points Bruce. Lee Story and always devastated to find out that a lot of it wasn't true. Well, I say I actually thought the. That sort of Iconic scene where Bruce and Linda Watch. Breakfast at Tiffany's was entirely apocryphal right but. I mean Lynda actually says in his documentary is no actually. It was it was a thing? Maybe maybe not. The way was played out there, but it was very clearly something that they had encountered in, and that was mind blowing to me right there. I was surprised that too yeah. Okay well. The film is, be water. It airs on ESPN, on. June seventh I correct seven, Sunday, June, seventh Sunday June seventh. Check it out. Bow. find you online. I am on Instagram of bowel. D. A. O. M.. N. G. Hawaii N.. And that's basically my biggest presence I'm bad at twitter written. My facebook is just full of personal means and. Stupid stuff that people should look at. Companies. Integrate. Is there any. Is there any other way for people to learn about the film, or should they just want? GO TO ESPN or If they searched. Be Water. ESPN and there's a lot of different articles that are coming out about the film. ESPN posted a great one where they're interviewing. Me I mean, aren't they? Listening to this podcast is that housing learning? Supplemental. Fitted being water making. This conversation. This is the definitive podcast episode of out the most definitive Bruce Lee documentary. I did not say that. All right well Jeff Yang. How can people find you online? I am original spin. On twitter mostly not really anywhere else a little bit facebook, but you know just finance twitter. And still you have to be will find you. You can find me at anger man on most of the socials, and then you find me at angry. Asian Man Dot Com, you can find this podcast at they. Call US Bruce on twitter and kind of instagram and facebook. You can find us on. Apple podcasts, and if you could give us, you can subscribe, and you give a rating review. We'd really appreciate it. Please check out. BE WATER ON ESPN on June seventh. Now. Knowing, thank you so much for being on the show. We really appreciate it and thank you for making this movie well, thank you so much. It was a real pleasure to be on the show all right that does it for this episode of they call spruce until next time peace. And be water. Water My. You've been listening to they call US Bruce with Jeff Yang and Phil You our theme. Music is by Kiro One. Our producer is song. They call us Bruce's a member of the POTLUCK podcast collective, featuring unique voices and stories from the Asian American community. Find out more at podcast. POTLUCK DOT COM. And thanks for listening.

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Episode 98: They Call Us Renee Tajima-Pena

They Call Us Bruce

1:07:14 hr | 4 months ago

Episode 98: They Call Us Renee Tajima-Pena

"Hello and welcome to another edition of they. Call US Bruce. An unfiltered conversation about what's happening in Asia America. I'm feel you and Jeff Yang and here we are again bringing you prime quality content in the era of Corona virus. And we have with us today. A very special guest. Somebody wanted to talk to for quite a while. In fact I actually think we reached out to you to do an episode. While you were in Japan. We were not able to late with little late the time bad but now we're on the same state the same city and in our respective houses. And that's why we're the lighted have with US rented Taj Pinna film director producer. Welcome thank you icon and one of my personal heroes. So yeah and a friend and we should say the a series producer of a an ethics series epic documentary series coming out on PBS. Very shortly called Asian Americans we that. Yeah simple straight. To the point we spend a lot of time trying to figure out a title. But we always say we're that what what were the alternate maybe less generic titles out this series. My favorite was invasive species Hornets. Now's the murder that if we were to form like a softball league I would love. I love our team to be the murder horns yeah nobody wanted invasive species for some reason so why and it's actually a very evocative term one which I'm sure Kind of relevant to the state of Asian American today increasingly feels like that's how people see us. Yeah so some people would get the title right away drawing kind of the wrong audience. I imagine but let's talk about the series. How did how to begin because this is a big deal? This is something which I think goes deeper and broader than any other attempt to document the history and the presence of our our community and culture. Ever well you know. It's something that we've been wanting to do for a long time at Lonnie. Dang who's like the Godmother of Documentary Asian American documentary? Filmmaking actually did ancestors in America she wanted it to be a series. That was never a full series. I mean there are different attempts. I even wrote. I think it was in the one thousand nine hundred eighty nine a whole treatment on Asian American history that we could just never get off the ground so around two thousand thirteen Jeff Bieber from Weeda. That's the flagship. Pbs Station that the they all the Ken Burns stuff and he approached me. And Don Young from the Center for Asian American Media and said you know he had done Latino Americans in Italian Americans and I think Jewish-americans and he said well. Do you WANNA do Asian Americans and we said. Yeah we've been wanting to so we got off the ground. It feels like it's really timely for this to be happening now. That certainly was not planned right. It's like Oh we're going to do this and release it right in the middle of a moment to win these states last summer the broadcast states. It's it's it's weird because well I mean you could have dropped this series at any time. I mean a heritage month of course is great but any year a doug ministries like this has always been sort of like necessary in in in you know like welcome but just given the circumstances. I feel like especially now watching it Watching the series another preview. I you know it just feels like wow. This is covering history. is very important. Asian American history but we are right now living some very important Asian American history that someone else is going to make a documentary about down the line you know so. It's so weird to see this. I think because so much of it is so relevant to what's going on right now but it keeps on happening over history. I mean one thing when in part of the series episode five we revisit the Vincent Chin case and via tend to win the novelist. Said you know when Vincent Chin that murder happened. Asian Americans weren't shocked because it was something new because they knew it was something old it an old story and when we looked at that history I mean even before this whole corona virus crises. It was like we kept on saying. Is this now? You know because if you look at all the fault lines of race and Immigration and xenophobia you look at all those fault lines they erupt. You know in times of crises and war to erupt did You know the McCarthy period is erupted. Nine eleven in erupted now the recession. That's in Chen. It erupted and so it was bound to happen at some point. It just happened. You know right now this year you know. It's not just that it happens randomly or even cyclically. There's a certain sense in which in looking back at this history one of the things that seems pretty apparent is that this kind of xenophobia. This kind of Anti Asian backlash in particular happens right when it feels like Asian Americans are becoming more prominent more successful more visible in some fashion. And certainly we talk. We've talked about this a couple times. Nowadays N- episodes it really does feel like while we were far from solving all problems and all of our our issues through representation ability. There was a bit of a moment right you the A row Christians. Fresh off the boat there was a whole world of things that seem like they were finally happening. I A little bit and then boom here we are once again being told that we are the invasive species the myrtle but you can look at it you know. Another way is set. Means were more empowered to defend ourselves and we are. We're more empowered to defend ourselves. I mean I watched tiger tail and then I see time leading the wash the hate campaign to you know. Bring attention to the all the anti-asian hate that's going on now. So He's got that platform people know who he is. And I mean it kind of burst our bubble because all these things like you said. We're we're really on this role but at the same time it just. We just have more visibility now. I mean I've been saying this. I've said this multiple times last couple of weeks since we've been recording all these episodes in in quarantine but I think what's going on right now with Asian Americans in this country it goes to show that You know you can work towards Having some level of success and visibility representation and all that but I feel like all that is very tenuous and conditional and I mean the powers us right but I feel like if you're looking for sort of some sort of validation from outside outside voices to say that we've arrived or where you know. We have a some level of success in privileged. Like that stuff is that can be pulled out from US. Mike that right and so I mean. We saw this coming like three months ago. Right so marker race. Yeah yeah is it ever J.J. and so but I do agree that like we are positioned now to you know. Be in a place where we can. We can raise our voices a little bit louder and stand up little bit taller and say like fuck all this man. Let's say that I mean it's it's it goes back to and we. Everyone has their moment right. Not everyone is on the same page about how to react to these things for me. Like I WANNA take it back to Vincent in case that's something I didn't know about until I was like it was almost twenty years effort happened. I learned about it because of your film who kills it's Chin. I still maintain. It's like one of the most influential pieces of media I've ever seen in my life because not because I was shocked about learning about the case. Of course I was but because it felt so like I felt it I felt how Like learning about it made me realize like like made me feel all the things that. I felt my whole life like way like you know I made been made to feel like I didn't belong in. This country had been threatened with violence before called names or whatever and like is that recognition. You know what I mean and seeing that sort of Play out in a way that I never but that no one had ever showed me before that. I think that's that's right there. You know I think like the Detroit. Asian Americans had never been really political during that time and I think a lot of them on the surface thought. Yeah I'm I've made it. I'm the model minority. I have a good job and I'm accepted. And but I think people underneath really know what's going on because they've lived it and with something like the Vincent in case happens is just Kinda hits them in the face and they have to respond so no. It's it's always been. I mean when we were doing this history one hundred fifty years of Asian American history and I know when we delivered our shows the suits at PBS. Were kind of they said. Oh this is not what we're suspended expecting. I think I think it was. You know this this idea that Asian Americans are a model minority is run so deep so I think people look at Asian Americans and expect while they're going to be like the Italian Americans German Americans but just with black hair you now. Just they've you know as immigrants they face them adversity. They pull themselves up by their bootstraps. And then you know they are paying. They build these big buildings or they succeed But the marker of race which is what we're talking about you know that does not go away and that's America. That is the rot in America and has been since the beginning and it is everything. We're seeing now. Anti-asian hate the fact that you know. People of color particularly African. Americans Latinos Native Americans Pacific Islanders. I mean the statistic was was it seventy percent. The Corona virus cases are in those groups. I mean it was like crazy statistic. But it shouldn't surprise. I guess any of US. Because that is those inequalities the racism. You know that's always been there. That's the those fault lines is. What would you say that the expectation was that it was going to be a little bit more of like an Asian American hagiography like this? Is You know how far we've come. These are a notable individuals the personalities who we celebrate that sort of thing. No they just didn't know about this history at all. I think a lot of Asian Americans because I make films like who killed Vincent Chin and a lot of Asian Americans themselves will say oh how come you're not telling the success stories in autumn. You're always talking about problems and I would say it's like you win. A union like the Filipinos who started the grape strike and helped launch the United Farm Workers Cesar Chavez in the sixties. You win a union. That's a success story to me. I mean if you look down the line I mean sure one can mark who in the late eighteen hundreds Chinese restaurant worker? He was a US citizen because he was born here. He gets you know. He has denied re entry into United States. Because he's Chinese. This was the middle of Chinese exclusion. And so he goes to the Supreme Court and he goes to the Supreme Court wins and from that point on anybody who's born in this country even if you're parents are undocumented immigrants like my friend parents if you're born in this country you have birthright citizenship. That's my parents are citizens because of that. I think that the that's one of those things that even those of us who have gone through you know Solid Education SORT OF CIVIC oriented education learn social studies and history and middle school and high school and then gone on to even take courses in ethnic studies in college or ethnic studies at Jason type stuff. Certain colleges don't quite have ethnic studies major yet as we know. But these aren't the things that actually get highlighted right the role of of Asian Americans in something as central as the blood. You know this sort of the the blood birthright of being American the native the native citizenship being a sort of preserved right in this country isn't sending that really gets taught in the context of our history and yet it's a critical part of our history. Not Just for Asian Americans with for all Americans and it's one that's super threatened right now right now we literally have people in charge of this nation who want strip that away so yes. We shouldn't talk about. I teach Asian American studies at UCLA. And it's embarrassing. How little I knew. I'm being when I went back. I mean don't tell anybody with my colleagues because Dr Ahead filmaker would you expect but I mean you know. People are worried now about naturalization and I kept on thinking well that's a new thing but in fact South Asians back in the nineteen twenties were who had citizenship here were denaturalized. I mean they were because of the got sing tin case by God sing. Tin Was an immigrant from India and he was actually a World War One veteran I mean he fought he served for the US military in World War One so he was given citizenship for. Maybe four days or something like that. But then they reversed it because he was Indian Dan so he also went to the US Supreme Court and the only thing he can argue back then was while. I'm I'm white because I'm Caucasian because I guess that's the region or whatever and the Supreme Court decided. Yeah you're Caucasian but you're not white but you sure ain't white not white so no no no. You can't have citizenship. So he was naturalized. And then all the South Asians with citizenship were then de-naturalize and when you're denaturalized. You don't only lose the rights and responsibilities of citizenship. Like your property you lost your property. I mean it was. Just you know as heartbreaking the case of cutting thin is it's so interesting because it's like it confirms very like on the Supreme Court level. Whiteness is like why disease it's racist such a construct in that in the in the most sort of You know those like constitutional way that they've like defined it. You know what I mean like. You're definitely not white. We need to confirm that like you're not the common man's definition of white. Yes I think what's What's also a deeper structure aspect of? This is that speaks to the uncomfortable role that as I have played throughout history And especially in the present day right that we have been seen in some ways as a kind of like The stopgap other right uh-huh our yeah the wedge or the fill in or you know the standings for various things I I'm thinking here of the earliest immigrants. The United States as a Chinese United States specifically and Japanese as well it were brought here in part because there was a need for labor after After black slaves were free right so there was this sudden. Shortfall of people to do heartbreaking work at very low pay and they decided that it was cheaper instead of to hire black people to actually import people from across oceans right and that instantly set up a narrative for us to be seen as kind of the replacement minority and overtime. We've we've had this kind of pushing pull in terms of where we belong. How adjacent perhaps to whiteness and blackness. We belong or whether we belong here at all right because that's as we began this conversation. Talking about a cyclic thing where it seems like American decides. We don't belong so I you know one of the things I think about. This documentary series is how well that that subtext kind of plays out in in the way that the narrative has been framed. And when you're trying to do one hundred and fifty years of history you have to actually will. You can't tell all of it. It's really not in real time. So how did you decide what to include and whatnot? They're just so much right. You've got yeah you've got five episodes. And then the and the whole of Asian America. Yes so so. What do you do and as you know? Country Music got thirteen hours. Five hours hundred Fifty Years American history. How many how many hours did baseball in the civil war? I well Vietnam workout seventeen or something like that. But I mean that's that's fine a deserved it. But you know countries excessive. Yeah it's because it's television from the very beginning. I mean the generally these kinds of history series. They start at the dawn of time or when the first Asian American came here. Something like that but because it's television and you have to have you know. Keep an audience engaged. I said now. Let's start when there's pictures and moving images if possible moving images because it's visual storytelling. And I didn't want to go into museum just pan around paintings you know or do like re-creations that we'd have no budget for and we do like Schlocky re-creations so and to me it's you know even if you just look at one hundred years of Asian American history. It's jam packed so I said let's just start when there's pictures and also hopefully where there's people still alive. Who either you know late. Eighteen hundreds still alive who was there but maybe descendants of people who were part of shaping that history or assist that history or people who have a direct connection to it I also didn't want you know. Just all the talking heads. To be scholars asian-american historians are great. And actually our historians really great because of them have a connection to the history themselves. I mean like Eric Elite or Gordon Chang near the families came in the eighteen hundreds. I mean they're multi generational so they're really invested in the story but I wanted to also include family members descendants people. I don't think history has to be from the top down. History is really told by you. Know it's told by all of us. It's passed down by all of our mothers and fathers grandparents so that that was. That was another decision. The other thing is low for most of maybe like the first one hundred years or whatever. Asian Americans were mostly just Chinese Japanese and Filipino. So that dominates a lot of the arrows in Asian American history. But now you've got dozens and dozens and dozens of different nationalities Asian Americans are just really diverse. We wanted to get a sense of that diversity. But then we knew that it's not gonNa be possible but we at least wanted to cover the main groups so maybe you could talk a little bit about some of the things you do cover in the series right so you can't cover everything. I know that you drill down into some really interesting stories Oh Yeah let's see. Let me think about some stories that are I mean the one thing in episode one. Which is the early history that was directed by Leo Chang the filmmaker and he actually started episode with the story of Filipinos which I think people would expect. I think people would expect out. It's going to be Chinese Japanese story from the eighteen. Hundreds early nineteen hundreds but he started with the story of a young Filipino kid. At that time he was like you know. I eleven or twelve or something who was brought to the Saint Louis. World's fair in one thousand nine hundred four with over a thousand other Filipinos to be displayed in the human zoo mean this was in the middle of the. Us had colonized the Philippines and to justify the colonization. They were putting forward. This idea that you know that there are so called. Little Brown brothers. They're savages and and they need us to govern them so this world's fair display was kind of like that justification and there was this whole all these anthropological exhibits that were supporting this idea of eugenics and racial hierarchy and You know all the scientific racism at the time but this kid and terro actually turn the experience around and he used it to learn English. Find a way to make money and he ended up getting married to another Filipina woman who was on display. They had the US born child because of Watkin Mark Child was a US citizen and he was able to go back and forth between the US in the Philippines and now one branch of his family who we talked to in in Maryland with. They live in Maryland and they still. They were eager up from the Pontiac region. They are still real like proponents of Of the heritage and the culture and and they were I mean a lot of people look at the Filipinos who were displayed as victims but his granddaughter. Who We talked to me was really insistent. She said No. You got to look at the Philippines. Were not stupid so you really have to look at their agency of how they they took that experience took you know what was happening to them and they turned it around so So that was the beginning but the I mean the if you take immigration xenophobia for example some one thing the historian Eric Harley said and it kind of blew my mind when she framed it this way she said you know. Asian Americans were the first undocumented immigrants and I knew about the Chinese exclusion act but I never quite made that connection and in fact. Yeah Asian Americans were the first undocumented immigrants but this this one really moving story was Kinda young you who? It's actually the mother of Jessica Yu the filmmaker the director and Connie's grandparent's her grandfather was born in the US because his father had been a a Chinese immigrant railroad worker so he looked grandfather was born in the US. The Grandmother was an immigrant and after the grandfather died suddenly at a young age they had been in China on a visit and when her grandmother and all the kids tried they returned to the US. The grandmother was kept on Angel Island and she was told a widow. So now you no longer have legal status and she was kept on Angel Island for fifteen and a half months and she had all these young kids. Us born kids. She was separated from her kids and she would have to like Connie's mother would have to go to Angel Island and try to wave to her from a window and I kept on thinking about you know the detention camps on the southern border and the family separation. Today so what's the the the continuity of xenophopia the continuity of the dehumanisation of people of color is just so striking. But then you fast forward to one of the were recent stories the first dream her the young immigrant who who inspired the Dream Act was her a Korean immigrant to recently. She was born in Brazil and at a very young age. I think she was two. Her family is immigrated a second time to Chicago and she at one point her when she was just still a kid. Her father sat down and said we have a secret. You can't tell anybody where undocumented and he told her you know if people find out me and your mother can be deported back to Korea. You'll have to be sent back to Brazil where you were born and your little brother who was born in. Chicago would just ended up in foster care I mean. Can you imagine a kid being told that and so she just grew up afraid terrified that the family would be broken apart. And she actually. She had a mentor. She was very talented musician. Pianist and her mentor introduced her. To Dick Durbin the senator from Illinois and he and Orrin Hatch surprise surprise Republicans. Senator cosponsored the I dream act so I had no idea before I started this project. That an Asian American in was the inspiration for the Dream Act. I didn't either and I think really speaks to something which I have thought about. Even as you talked about the the prior installments. You know the Italian Americans Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera which by extracting out the singular stories or the perceived similar stories of a single race or ethnicity. It includes the ways in which we are interwoven in other people's stories and that must be frustrating to a certain extent right. I mean it's hard enough to actually tall hundred fifty years of our history. But then when you think about it. One Hundred Years of our history occurred along with one hundred years of everybody else's and I guess when you when you look back at this worth work. What are some of the things that you wish? You could more deeply into but just didn't have the space time or resources for well. I think because of the nature of a series like this usually I make you know like one story ninety minutes long so we had to pack a lot more characters into each hour So I think looking at you know trying to trace like anyone of these people with their families just expand on their stories. I would've loved to have done that. But we really hope that somebody will take the stories and run with it and you know. Make one hour or feature length documentary or A scripted film about any one of these stories was the one of the early immigrants we looked at is there were these Muslim silk traders who immigrated in the late eighteen hundreds and because of anti miscegenation laws they married African American women in Harlem Detroit New Orleans where they settled and this one person we looked at MC Saad Ali who settled in New Orleans. Married a woman from trae named L. A. Blackman and had a family and one of his kids are do Ali and we couldn't get to do story just ran out of time for but Bardu. Ali became like a big band leader in Harlem in New York because the family had followed the great migration from the South Up to New York and he was. I think it was the big bandleader for Chick Webb. He discovered elephants Gerald and then he came to Los Angeles and he was the manager for Red Fox. The comedian great story. So somebody's gotTa do that. It's really cool. I think that because of the way words schooled in the way is this just the way that Asian American histories todd. We don't get any of this right. I mean it's just we think people think that Asian American history begins like thirty years ago or something like you know. It's it's a but it's chock full of these really interesting great stories that The people can make an entire feature film out of you know I also think about how when people make period feature films and television shows were like Asian Americans are always like left out. Lift out of people. Think it's so white would be in that in this time period but like I think it goes to show like Asians were all up in that space. And they're all there's plenty of stories to be told we should populate these universes right well even more recent stuff I mean I. I always seen these films about alternative independent lefty films about like the Berkeley Strike or the San Francisco State Strike Search. And you never see an Asian face but I knew because I knew people. I knew asian-americans were there and were big part these strikes but they just didn't you know I thought either. They've turned the camera way or all. The Asian Americans are on the cutting room floor. I mean but we that was gray. Slee directed one of the episode the episode with the San Francisco State Strike and she actually found footage and photos of the Asian Americans. Who Were there? And who were like at the center of the strike but we really had to dig for evidence that we existed at the time. All right well. This is a good time for us to take a break but when we return we'll do our signature segment the good the bad and the WF so stick around. We'll be right back but we're still here and we're going strong. It's an exciting time. Asian America there are more movies. Tv shows books and music reflecting us than ever but all of these represent just a small slice of Asian American culture and experiences. So what do we do tell more slices Asian Americana is a show that explores these slices distinctly culture history? We've talked about how Chinese Americans built California Sacramento Delta. The Art Scene Gallery institution giant robot. A play that explores the loss Cambodian pop music of the Sixties and Seventies. And of course Boba just to name a few stories you find Asian American Asian Americana Dot Com or on your podcast APP up proven and we're back all right on the second half they call spruce we do our favorite segment our signature saying the good the bad and the WF Jiffy Yang. Would you please lay down the ground rules? The rules of engagement as we say yes. We will So this is our round table segment where we invite our guest tonight. We participate ourselves to discuss a particular topic three different ways. The first way is the good the positive the warm fuzzy. The is the negative of that topic. the bad. You know the things that make us feel You know less than right and make us angry or sad or a little desperate about that particular topic but then finally the third and sometimes the most interesting around the deputy f. It's really more about the lingering questions. We still have things puzzling about that topic or that. We're still reflecting on and given the nature of this episode and the incredible documentary series that renting oversaw we actually thought that it'd be kind of interesting cake a very broad angle topic and say let's have ray talk about the good the bad and the he F- of being Asian Americans. That's easy only cover about one hundred year. Yeah wow but it'll it'll be interesting because I think that there are a lot of ways in which one can answer each of these rounds and I think given the perspective you have. It'll be very interesting to hear what you have to say. So we'll just have you do at this time. I think in the interest of time and and also your unique tease now and we'll begin with the good. So Rene we share with us. What your tickets on the good of being Asian Americans and before before he jumped and actually I might add. We debated this little bit right. We said we're going to do being Asian American or being Asian Americans and Phil noted that there's a bit of a subtlety right that when you actually talk about this from the from the plural noun as posted the adjective. It's a bit of a different read. It feels like it's talking about something different real so yeah well. I think there's when you say Asian when you say Asian American. I think we're thinking more in terms of an adjective but when you think of Asian Americans. There's a collective sense of community of belonging to something more and what what what what does that mean right. It was the good the bad. And W Jeff of being part of this label Asian Americans and so in honor of the title of the series of this epoch series. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA challenge. Yeah Yeah I like that idea of the plural the collective. Because I think that's the great thing about being Asian American. I mean it's always I always feel sorry for people who don't have a specific identity. It's like I mean we have each other. You know we have all these organizations and with our organ and like everytime Asian Americans do anything whether it's like putting on a rally or you know a meaning whatever it's always over food and drink we'll do that but Asian Americans like really do that. It's like we even see each other less. We'RE GOING TO BE EATING OR DRINKING. Except for those people would get rid. They don't drink but there is like the sense of you know we have each other. It's really great. I've sometimes I I have friends who are not connected to like a specific. You know like they're not LGBT or they're not a certain kind of nationality or whatever and they're not oppressed group and they don't have their people so they have everybody else. I guess the White House and the Senate just my way of I guess you know justifying my existence. Miserable existence hardly miserable. But I think you're right in some ways right and I actually feel. I mean when you say people who don't have a quote community. I mean we'll have some sort of community but in in terms of the specifics of the kind of community that we're creating because Asian Americas is is an invention to a certain extent right it's an act of creation and and political thinking by a group that in many cases doesn't necessarily have intrinsic reason to to cluster a collaborate form community. I think that's one of the things most interesting about it. And I say this is somebody who has migrated from New York to Los Angeles right or New York to California where it's different right and you've made you kind of made that journey to write or even just the East Coast in general right you know. Let's say Boston or other cities on the east coast coming from there to here in Los Angeles. It's so different in New York. For instance you can talk about Asian Pacific American heritage month and get blank stares left and right you can still get that sort of a California sometimes do but here at least like there are. There's enough of a critical mass of people such that it makes sense to use some of these terms and To assume that they'll be something to do to somewhere to go a place to connect with during the entirety of the month of May more or less and that's not the case in many other places and I agree absolutely. I think that that's another great thing about being Asian American more likely. You Land Somewhere. You can find your people. And they'll open their arms for. I mean when I landed I grew up here and I went back to the East Coast for college but then I moved to New York after college. And you know it's like within a week. I was having dinner with coach. Amaze with Urine Bill Coaching Alma. Of course you're invited everybody to have dinner with them but it's with anybody can go but there are billing aries. I think in every town and I know that like young filmmakers. They come from wherever they come they come to L. A. And they contact me or they contact grace sir. You know the contact wanted to the visual communications or they'll contact center for Asian American media. I mean there's always a you know there's always the pod in any city. Sometimes it's the big pod like Los Angeles you know. Sometimes it's a little one like Atlanta or Houston. I guess those aren't really little. They're pretty big. But I think you can always find your people. I don't disagree with that. I feel like it's it. It's more like whether you look or whether you you sort of find by just walking around and stumbling over stuff is a little bit different. But that said there's no question that that that feeling of belonging has been such a huge part of my adult life and it is absolutely reason I am proud to be among asian-americans when I'm when I'm when I'm with my people when I'm with you guys. I want to go back to something you said about the maybe this sort of east coast west coast or whatever like California. Because I'm because I grew up I grew up. I'm west coast through and through right. I grew up on this on this side of the coat of the country. And would you say that I mean would you say that being Asian American is more more or less meaningful like a outside of California or these places? I don't know I just don't understand like the Here's what I okay. Here's what I know. The people in say like New York for Asian American and they embrace this Asian American identity. It because they because they gotta because the because it's because they're you know it's it's It's like a different kind of a assault on the identity of being Asian American and I don't know like I might get some flak for saying this but I feel like East Coast Asian. Sometimes they're like the most the angriest fishing Hawaiian Asian Asians. I think that's the different because a lot of Asians on the east coast are from here anyway. So they're not really from there except for I that actually there are a lot of new generation that yeah I mean? So here's what I'd say. I think the West Coast had more more extensively developed Po second-generation communities than the East Coast. And that makes a difference. I think also On the West Coast This sort of that sense of pan. Asian commonality has maybe had a little bit more time to take root on the east coast. You still have a lot of people who are you. Know a generation away if even a generation away from immigration and so the term Asian American doesn't necessarily mean as much as like Chinese American Koreans and create American Indian American etc. But I I will say of the angry part. That could just be New York people even time to. I mean I know the one thing I noticed about moving back as people in New York are never leave their office. Before seven o'clock I mean never and then here it's like everybody's gone by six or seven o'clock so we have more time to have community west coast because we have to be traffic That's right yeah. Yeah we're in our cars but let's let's be real things are going to be different now. I kind of feel like whatever comes out of this. I think the whole notion that time is a social construct has become a little bit more abby A reality all right. So let's move on to the second round which is a little tougher. What's bad what is the bad of being Asian Americans and this is like maybe a tough one but I do think I mean there are certainly things that spring to mind to me. Oh yeah now at again. I'm like my generation. I'm not young anymore so I grew up. I can remember so many times in my life even when I was like you know into like being an Asian American filmmaker and activist and thinking God. I wish our white it would just be so easy. You know it'd be easier to raise money. I mean it would just be easier to have a career. I could just make fun movies. You know I wouldn't feel compelled to make movies about you know social problems and because I make movies when something pisses me off and if you're Asian American if you're a person of color you know something's always going to Piss you off because it's so much injustice so I yeah I think about that. I used to think about that a lot. Now I think because things are changing because it's just it's cooled the Asian American now even though the racists like the Kong flew Chinese virus people. Don't think so. I think it's I feel that way. I don't feel that way anymore because you know a long time ago. Actually I think from the Times Asian started coming here but I know in my experience as a filmmaker. We just decided while we're excluded were pushed out so we're going to create your own institutions. We'll create our own genre and that's really come to fruition. So you see like with the big budget you know crazy rich. Asians and Master OF NONE. Mindy cabling in her new show and fresh off the boat and all these. You know huge things that are happening in the mainstream but you also see it with alternative spaces with documentaries. Independent films We we started. It was actually Lille Chang and Grace Lee were the call them the parents of eight Dr Asian American documentary network. And that was started to just be this. You know. Force the mentors for younger Asian American documentary. Filmmakers advocate for the whole field and within it was formed in two thousand sixteen. When you know a lot of things reformed the it was actually before trump was elected but really gained steam after trump's election and just within a few years know we have hundreds and hundreds of members. I mean it's really amazing. I know I'm supposed to talk about the shitty stuff but Out of all the the shit show always comes. You know the garden. I yeah fertilizer and the garden. That seems that's profound. I mean I that we're not. We're not sort of throwing in our own. That is me meaningful but I will say that you know a lot of the the bad that comes out of when when I associated badness with age America being Asian part of I guess Asian-americans Asian-american Community to me. A lot of it has to do with the way that the very term Asian Americans right feels like it. Flattens out right even mentioning that. That sort of list of different cultural touchstones. Even every single. One of those is just one out of so many different stories and each and every one of the ones you listed has had lots of AS Roma's of obviously celebrating but also saying you know what I love it. It doesn't quite really kind of fit me. It doesn't really reflect exactly who I am and yet at the same time you know. You made the point. The beginning like country music. It's thirteen hours. We get five and that's still the reality. We can't tell all of our own stories and we can't be seen with all of our diverse glory because we're still kind of seen as being A little behind country music or you know I mean failure Korean. I'm Japanese you. Think like the people saying go back to China are GonNa make that distinction. You don't know who the hell we are. I mean if we if we really had the if people truly give a shit like to the to the maximum degree which we really wished you know. This wouldn't just be asian-americans right. We'd have a whole series about Korean Americans about Chinese Americans. You know in and people would be interested. We wouldn't have to jam it all into one to five hours of one hundred fifty years of history of all of these communities into five hours right so that is definitely one of the sort of that is that is the bad part of jamming us. All into one umbrella term right There was a Chinese Americans series. That's right I think there was like one Asian on that team. Yeah I distinctly remember Helen. Zia was in that. Yeah I always joke cause that left an impression on me that serious. I watched it. I wish I always laugh Bill moyers his southern accent. So every time you would say Chad Knees. I knew Chinese racist what he says. It's like trump China triggered just pisses off for China. Oh it's exactly right. Yeah like kind of a body part can I? Can I point out that even even literally? Today I was looking at this new ad that was released by the trump super PAC right The latest salvo in xenophobic hysteria. Boosting from the trump campaign. Or at least you know trump supporters and they were going on about how China's killing Americans and so forth and they had a an image in which they showed an airline talking about how trump you know was head of the game and trying to block ban all travel from China and the airline was China Airlines and China. Airlines is not is not actually. The airline of the people are China. It's time it's Taiwan as area but obviously no one gives a shit over there. They see the word China China China right and they just slap it on there and it underscores again that that erasure against that the term Asian Americans with the idea of Asian records sometimes allows right. I mean I don't care whatever. They called us we. We're all big orientals to them anyway. But the fact that they they so blithely substitute agents for asian-americans Taiwanese for Chinese Chinese for Koreans. Crean's for what is like because there I mean. It's being racial allies. So they're not looking at China as being a nation state they're they're not portraying it as a nation state of they're not whipping up. You know all this hatred for Chai against China's a nation state. It's this racial group Chinese and the racial group Chinese encompasses. Anybody who you know looks Chinese or who looks Asian. So I think that's what they're and and you know the problem is I mean there's much to criticize of China? And you know the way they. I suppress information in you. Know among their own people about the corona virus. I mean there's there's criticism there but it's you know it's just become completely racial is and it's a distraction from the utter failure and incompetence and mismanagement and the kleptocracy. That's kind of you know. Guided this whole administration's response to the corona various epidemic iming. That's the bad. That's the bad and the deputy. Yes well we want to squeeze in one more. Wfan there so have we been talking about yet not yet but that definitely does stretch over into territory. But let's close this one off with You know the dumped being Asian Americans and here I mean. Obviously you've just gone through one hundred fifty years of history and Ben this epic mini series documentary. And yet I'm sure there's still questions you have that having been answered here so curious to you to ask you what what in your wisdom is still of being asian-americans what the fuck of being yes. Let's let's uncensored okay. I don't know I mean I'm just can you explain what you're going with with the WTO. I think mostly it's. It's really still like the lingering questions the thing that's sort of puzzle. Us Right What's that all about kind of and I think from your perspective? Having seen so many hours of footage some images hurt some of these stories. Is there anything that still to you? Kind of hustling or or odd. You're not yet resolved in your head. I guess after all that in uh the funny thing is when I think about the history and the current moments my. What's the fuck is going from here? I really that's my question and I think that Ohio know what they think I mean you know. I have some optimism because I'm deluded so my optimism is I mean. I have never seen people so galvanized as in this past couple of months people are really like a Asian Americans just looking at our own community. I mean as soon as this whole Kong flew China. Virus thing started. People started to organize. You know the the wash the hate campaign and they started to collect data and they're you know holding people to the fire and and speaking out and telling their stories and you know screaming at the government and so it's been you know the level of organization and consciousness is like something I haven't seen in years and years and years. So that's my optimism. But my pessimism is we're going down a real. I mean it's a shit show now but you know it's GonNa be maybe a depression economic depression You have like you know. They can't get a hold of you. Know the health the health disparities. I mean the. Us has like really a very weak public health system. Then you have all these crazies who wanna go out you know you don't want to do the shelter in place anymore and they want to open up like Nail Salon in Georgia. The first thing he does he opens up nail salons and bowling alleys. Like what is that about priorities? So what's going to happen? I mean you can really say for sure because the administration has an for the trump campaign. I mean China is the Boogeyman. I mean that's just see now. They've had policy memos and I mean that's very clear so Asian Americans are really going to. I mean we've been paying price lately it's GonNa get worse and then people are just GonNa be hurting. You know there will be sick Their already losing their jobs. Schools are closing down. Iming how are we going to build a not bill but rebuild out of this and what roles are Asian Americans GonNa play? I mean that's a real question and I hope we play the role that we've played in so many points in our history where we've like. You know demanded justice we fought for justice and making contributions like cynical and you know in science and Economics and education and whatever and you know growing food but I think it's a it's a real question and we have a lot of work to do and we have a lot of work to do. Also you know. Not only for Asian Americans because it's like a rot of racism and xenophobia. That's not only directed to Asian Americans. So you know I. I was used the kind of analogy of cancer. If you have tumor a tumor in two or three places. You can't just get rid of the tumor in one place. You GotTa get rid of the cancer so if you know. African Americans Latinos other people of Color If these other groups are suffering like this really getting hammered by these health disparities also among them other Asian Americans. I mean it's it's our fight. We have to fight that as much as we fight. You know the anti-asian hate that we're experiencing so my what the fuck is really what the fucker we couldn't do. Hopefully the right thing. Sorry I'm pitching no no it is. It is the right question to be asking and I think that You know we've obviously been talking a little bit about this amazing essay that W. Kamau Bell wrote in which he talked about leaving. The title of the essay is the exact title. It's something like Me and Bruce Lee would like to talk about racism. Exactly rate that a fantastic okay. So basically the you know it's just posted on medium and he basically was like saying. Hey if you're if you're against racism against all racist right and if you're not against racism then you're not against racism and he used his relationship with Bruce Lee and sort of the larger context of how African Americans have you know that there's been a interrelation between Asian and African Americans going way back into our present. You know popular culture our history popular culture but the VAT should sort of speak to this larger question around why it is that. If you're Asian American you should be aware of the struggle afro-americans face and vice versa. And I think that really has to be the conversation that comes out of all of this right instead of UH Worrying solely about our individual communities if asian-american all of its diversity can get together enough that we can speak towards some kind of common voice. We need push that farther out and really speak to the commonalities across communities of color. That's absolutely and that's that's probably the biggest step is like I remember. After trump was elected there would be these like therapy groups at Ucla with Asian American students. Who knew that they had to go back for Thanksgiving and face their family members who were like had all these anti-black or you know anti brown kind of pro trump feelings. And why are Asian Americans you know? How can they side with these racist? I just don't get it but it is just people just have to that history. You're just talking about I mean Frederick Douglass denounce the Chinese Exclusion Act that. You can argue that. A lot of the people who are able to immigrate after nineteen sixty five the civil rights movement in that that kind of environment of pushing for equality. And you know the US having to prove that you know. We're not like this backwards so-called democracy. I mean that really. I mean it made a difference opened up the doors to us even be here in the first place. So what the fuck you know what to function. Know our own history and our history is not just Asians and white people well the very termination American it was invented specifically in a mosh to and in emulation of at the time. Afro Americans right. That was the term at the time because the original group that gather together in order to to protest and sort of Martian in solidarity with other people of Color specifically were were taking part in a protest against or in support of Human Newton that whole sort of yellow peril for black power kind of thing and I I feel like you know we sometimes do forget about those interlocking moments of our history when we think about it from our vantage point today so Asian Americans so we should have called the series. I don't know if that would have been the PVs audience but the show is called asian-americans. Five part series Rene Win when and where CAN PEOPLE WATCH? It may eleventh and twelfth on your station should be eight o'clock. Pacific and Eastern Central Time. And then you can stream it for the next twenty eight days after the May eleventh and twelfth premiers check your local listings as they say yes. Check your local listings. Rene Touch Find you online. Oh God I should have a website that there's no websites anymore. I mean twitter. Instagram and facebook and all those things. Maybe I'll start doing to talk. I would love to see painted tick Tock I would up just to see that it went probably be stupid. Cat Videos perfect is what we need in these dark times and I think that's our Tajima. Is that right? Yeah I guess you you'd do Google Google Jifang. How about yourself? I can be found at original spin but you know in in the larger context of being an American and part of a group of Asian Americans Yes I can be found an original spin on twitter but I also have been putting in some time along with you fill in gathering together other places where you might potentially find both of us right and many other Asian Americans in a calendar that is on angry. Asian man right now Of Online activities online events sessions webinars broadcasts concert celebration CETERA. That are taking place in the month of May and we've compiled this Because we want to make sure that even though we're all under lockdown that this very community that we've talked about sustaining us can still be available right to all of us that great. Well you know. We're we're glad to have done it but it's really important more than ever. I think that we are in touch with each other in in this month. Asia wearing heritage. Month so phil you probably have the exact url for that but we are both there you can go to angry dot com and then up top it just says heritage calendar. Just click on that. Yeah so van is where you are but where are you so you can find me at at angry? Asian man and on angry dot com as I said you can find this show at they call Bruce on twitter and facebook. You could also hop on over to apple podcasts. And give us a rating or review. Hopefully a five star once. It really helps people find the show. We think everybody who's given shown showing the love so far and that's about it. That's it for this episode. They calls Rene Tightrope Thank you so much for being on. It's it's totally. It's an honor pleasure. Thank you this was fun again. The yeah the show is check it out on PBS. Until next time piece you've been listening to they call US Bruce with Jeff Yang and Phil you. Our theme music is by Kiro One. Our producer is wrong. They call US Bruce. A member of the POTLUCK podcast collective featuring unique voices and stories from the Asian American community. Find out more at podcast. Potluck DOT com and thanks for listening.

US Taiwan Documentary Asian American America Center for Asian American Medi New York trump Vincent Chin Asian America Hawaiian Asian Asians US Supreme Court Americans Pacific Islanders Bruce Lee UCLA Los Angeles Jeff Yang Italian Americans Country Music West Coast
Why Negative Prices Exist and What They Can Teach Us

Money For the Rest of Us

27:58 min | 5 months ago

Why Negative Prices Exist and What They Can Teach Us

"Walk in the money for the rest of us. This is a personal finance. Show on money how it works. How to invest it and how to live without worrying about it. I'm your host David Stein. Today's episode to ninety six its title. Why do negative prices exist last week? The price of the May twenty twenty West Texas intermediate crude oil futures contract known as WTI fell to as low as negative thirty seven dollars per contract that means the holder who was long oil was willing to pay to exit the contract. Cnbc markets reporter. Pippa Stevens wrote on Monday for the first time on record west Texas intermediate the US oil benchmark plunged below zero and into negative territory before Monday. Many thought this was impossible. Maybe just maybe it could drop to zero effectively erasing. All value but negative territory seemed unimaginable. Not least because it's hard even to wrap one's mind around it pay someone to take your oil in this episode. We're going to see why oil prices went negative. We'll also look at other examples of negative prices and why they exist and what we can learn from them. The WTI futures contract has a physical settlement which whoever holds the contract when it expires receives a barrel of oil the contract settles in Cushing Oklahoma. That's where that of oil is delivered if he owned the contract. That's where you're going to get your oil or at least arrange for somebody to store it for you. Us crude inventories are near an all time record high. In cushing Oklahoma. Seventy percent of the storage capacity was four as a mid April and a Reuters. Article suggested that most of the available space already leased out. There's nowhere to put that oil. That is being received as part of the future contract settlement. Now the May oil futures contract has since expired and now the June oil futures contract is the front month contract that will expire in the third week of May. Yesterday the June contract fell twenty five percent just under thirteen dollars. They United States oil. Etf USO fell fifteen percent. It has lost eighty three percent year to date leveraged exchange traded funds tied to oil have shut down. They lost all the money products by wisdom tree. Ubs and velocity shares which is owned by Janice. Jim Cramer said there are times in life where people know that there's an instrument that is faulty and they can shoot against that instrument and bury these people there is this financial problem people who are buying the USO that United States oil energy T.F. Bay our financial people. So if you're a real person or you're a large contractor a large player they can wipe out the USO in. I think that's been what's going on. It's not a conspiracy. It's a reality when you have an organization that can't take delivery. Well you should crushed that organization every time and that's what probably happened. Who are these people that are getting crushed that own USO? Well some of them are retail investors. But most are institutional investors John Highland. He's now retired but he was the former investment officer of the United States Commodity Fund which manages USO. He pointed out that eighty percent of USOC shares are held by non retail investors hedge funds include energy trading desk and other professional players the purpose of this ETF was to allow investors to get exposure to the front month contract of oil at the end of twenty nine thousand nine. It had one point. Two billion dollars under management and the vast majority of its investment at the end of December was in the February wti crude oil futures contract that expired in January every month this ETF would sell that contract right before it expired. And then by the next contract in order to make money it needed to sell that contract for a higher price than what it paid for it right now when you look at the price of West Texas intermediate crude futures contract or is a steep premium as you go further out for example right now the June contract selling for twelve dollars and ninety three cents. The July contract is forty one percent higher. It eighteen dollars. Twenty six cents. October contract is twenty five dollars as investors. We're trying to invest in oil you. Let's say you want to buy that October contract by October. The price of oil needs to be above twenty five dollars. A barrel not negative. Thirty seven dollars. This situation is called a superpower tango when you have such a steeply rising futures curves where the futures price are in this case. October futures contract is double the June contract and it is the result of a huge supply demand imbalance with the economy being shut down in the US and around the world airlines are running at ninety percent below their capacity. People are working from home. There's less driving going on. The demand for oil has plummeted yet to supply has continued. Uso is trying to do to sort of stem the bleeding is. They announced this week. That over the next three days so yesterday today Tuesday April twenty eighth and Wednesday April. Twenty ninth when this episode is released that they're selling that June contract and they're going to be buying these other contracts with thirty percent will be in the July contract fifteen percent in August fifteen percent in September and then some in later contracts that means they're selling in oil contract for twelve dollars and then buying contracts that are worth eighteen dollars to twenty five dollars or more it's moving away from it stated goal of the ETF detract the short term price or the near term price of oil despite its woes USO. Has Three point. Six billion dollars under management up from one billion dollars at the beginning of the year and that's including eighty three percent loss. Who are all these investors? Well I learned something this week that I never knew that institutional investors hedge funds that want to short an etf they can get an authorized participants that is authorized to create and redeem shares of ETF's behalf of the sponsor to create new shares. That can then be shorted when you short a stock or an ETF you borrow the shares so you have to get the shares from somewhere. And if there's not enough shares then they can be created by an authorized participant. Here's how John Highland former investment officer of the United States Commodities Fund described. This process. He said a Hedge Fund wants to borrow ten million shares too short and it's easier and quicker for Merrill Lynch or whoever to just create them. The shares now belong to Maryl- maryl- will hedge their shares by being short the futures and lend the shares to the Hedge Fund for the Short Highland estimated that ninety percent or more of the short positions in USO involves professional traders so shares created by authorized participants. Such as Merrill Lynch that can be shorted and then Merrill is protected because Uso owns oil futures and Merrill just goes short oil futures so they're not exposed and then the hedge fund is able to short the ETF. It's estimated that fifteen and a half percent of the outstanding shares of Uso are being shorted that process is called create to land activity so they create the in order to lend it out. It's also known as synthetic short. I saw one paper where they described. How a Hedge Fund that wanted to borrow a particular stock too short. There was very difficult to get if a stock is hard to borrow. The cost to borrow can get quite high and so this particular hedge fund they shorted the ATF. A stock ETF that had their particular holding and then they went long or bought all the other stocks in that ETF except for the one they were trying to short to mazing the would do that. But that's a synthetic short. So that's what's going on with. Uso. It's in a very very difficult situation. Because of this. Huge supply demand imbalance that has created the super tango that is causing USO to lose money whenever they roll over the contract because they have to sell when the contract expires because they can't take delivery. The negative price is due to a storage issue. The Need to store what you buy there was a fascinating article this past week by Robin harding in the Financial Times. The title was or was not the only negative price coming to you. And the subtitle is minus. Prices are not uncommon even if they suggest infinite losses and generate horror. This storage problem is one example of a negative price. The Need to store what you buy or some things you just don't want it at all and because it costs money to dispose of it essentially has a negative price. We have bought houses in the past or land farmland whether it was stuff on the property or in the house and we just. We didn't want maybe it had value but we told the owner to sell it. You GotTa get rid of it or we're not gonNA close and from the seller's perspective. Maybe they don't want it and so maybe that item has value but because of the need to dispose of it to get rid of it to move it to transport it it has a negative price another example. That harding points out is electricity. You can't really store like trysofi. Costly and time consuming to shut down a power plant a coal plant or nuclear plant. How do you shut down a solar plant and if there's excess electricity because the sun is shining? There's there's not. There's not the demand. Oftentimes these power generators they. They will pay to get rid of it because of the excess supply and they they gotta get rid of it so they pay somebody to take it. Because it's not nutcase it's not easy to store I ran across recently. We have some solar panels at our cabin utility that we buy from. It's a cooperative. Fall River Electric. They recently changed the way they do. What's known as net metering with our solar panels and most people the on solar panels. Do you have the option? If you're solar panels create more power than you actually need. You can push that excess power onto the grid and get paid for it so instead of being excess power like a powerplant paying me to take it. In this case the utility is paying to take on this power but they've paying seven point four cents per kilowatt a retail price and going back and forth and emails with the director. He pointed out that their wholesale costs three point eight cents so they're paying an excess which means those members that don't have solar panels are essentially subsidizing. People like us that do and the way that Fall River worked is you could bank your excess power. So you've got these credits. At seven point four cents per kilowatt the many which were generated in the summer when there's more sunlight and then you could use those in the winter when you weren't generating enough power and perhaps you're using more power for to heat. Your House. They changed the rules to where you have to use your excess balance every month and it's I I was kind of Sep then going back and forth between the director of the board members secondhand. That makes sense now. I'm actually grateful that they're willing to at least pay. The retail rate director pointed out that nationally. The trend is to reconcile net metering instantaneously. So look at what. The power price is and pay wholesale rates in if there's too much power than not perhaps not bite at all or pay much lower rate but electricity and power is another example of where prices can go negative because there's too much of it and they have to get rid of it. The negative interest rates. Something we discussed an episode to sixty four of this show what happens when interest rates are negative. We discussed a savings glut. There are many people that want to save in a safe manner. Fdic insurance depository insurance for banks. There's a two hundred and fifty thousand dollar limit. If you as an institution wants to hold cash you might be willing to buy a government bond. That has a negative yield. Pay To store your money in something safe. Maybe at some point we'll get to where banks will charge money to store it because there's a cost to storing cash in your house by a safe possibility of theft. It's hard to do very large transactions. Millions of dollars in cash and if there is a greater demand to save bad can lead to negative interest rates like we've seen throughout the world before we continue. Let me pause here and share some words from this sponsors. If your work life is anything like ours. It's been turned upside down recently. Many of us are adjusting to a new world of remote work. My friends at linked in learning are here to help you and your team's not only stay productive at home but also support all of your well being for a limited time. Lincoln learning is offering a wide variety of their most popular online courses for free. You can hear from real world. Experts who share tips about how to cope with stress manager remote team and even look great on video conference calls. There are also plenty of courses for salespeople recruiters small businesses and much more check out the free linked in learning courses and share them with your teams. I'm sure they would appreciate the extra support right now. And if you want to learn more about Lincoln learning the trusted online learning solution for seventy eight percent of Fortune. One HUNDRED COMPANIES. Their consultants are always available to chat visit linked in learning dot com slash us to explore dozens of free courses. That's Lincoln learning DOT COM slash U. S. Hey this is David and I admit I actually. Don't listen to that many podcast because I don't have a commute to work and I'm busy producing my own show. But one of the few podcasts that I will listen to is the investors podcast with stig and Preston why 'cause they'll do interviews with investment strategist that. I find fascinating to recent episodes that listen to were interviews with Luke Groman in Collin Roche. I like to learn how other investment practitioners are thinking about and reacting to the economy and markets today and investors. Podcast has the in depth interviews for me to be able to get that context looking for a new podcast. Please check out. The investors podcast. Stig impressed and been doing this. Show a longtime which is why it is so good. Check out the investors podcast. Robin harding gives another reason for negative prices. Where there's a liability attached to an asset example of contaminated land? The clean up costs of the land means that the entity might pay someone to take this land off them or gave example when BMW sold the British Car Company Rover in the two thousand it provided a dowry of hundreds of millions of pounds to the buyer because of the state of the business because the ongoing cost of the business and the price needed to reflect the future liability or cost related to that. There's other things maybe have values plastic. We recycle recycling things theoretically can have some value but I know weeded for many years and continue to. Do we pay someone to pick up that curbside? Recycling we discussed in up to eight. The biggest market crash is recyclables and one of the challenges with this pandemic and the economic shutdown is the market for recyclables his plummeted. I saw a report that in Malaysia Vietnam and India. Where many of these recycling plants are only about thirty percents? Recycling plants are still operating. And they're running at fifty percent capacity. And then when you look for the uses of much of this plastic it's used in textiles automotive pipe markets Susan Robinson. She's the senior director of sustainability and Policy Waste Management. Said since no one is buying carpenter. Cartwright now these industries are closing down immaterial. Recycling facilities are having a hard time selling and moving some of their bottles and cans as an end-consumer. We're paying somebody to take away this recycling but the recyclers are struggling right now because nobody wants the plastic now. I don't think they're paying people to take the plastic yet but perhaps will get their third where prices could be negative is. There's something that a buyer would typically pay for. But as part of the transaction the seller is getting something else of value from the buyer so the seller's willing to pay the buyer harding gives the example of a bike sharing network where it might pay customers to ride bikes from the suburbs back to the city centre whereas typically the consumer would pay to ride the bike. In this case the bike sharing plan might pay the consumer to ride the bike from the suburbs. Because there's more demand for the bikes in the city centre. The bike rider gets paid to ride the bike. It's like having a negative price. Disposable razors often sent to individuals for free. It costs the company money to send that raise her but they do it because they will benefit in the future as consumers hopefully by replacement blades. Another example is where there's a benefit miss much more complicated one. But I've mentioned before one reason brokers are no longer charging for commissions is they actually get paid to send trades to execution services such as citadel execution services will pay retail brokers like Robin Hood Fidelity and Td Ameritrade descend traits them citadels providing a service but it paying its customers for the privilege of providing the service and the reason why is that as a market maker it can combine orders for greater volume to cover its fixed infrastructure cost and to get a predictable stream of waters to match as a market maker to have liquidity. They provide liquidity. And they're better able to manage their orderbook and generate a profit by being willing to pay retail brokerages for that order flow and the investor gets better execution than they might otherwise. What are some takeaways lessons? We can learn about negative prices. Were I is a recognition that that the price of assets can go negative or least fall sharply if there is too much supply and there is a cost to continuing to hold onto the asset like we saw with oil futures when there's a highly motivated seller that perhaps is leveraged and just wants to get out of their financial commitment one of the questions that we should always ask whenever we're considering buying something is what is the ongoing cost or commitment beyond initial price. Paid I wonder how many individuals have bought houses to rent on AIRBNB and with people not traveling. This houses aren't being as rented as much and there's still a mortgage payment to be made. The prices won't go negative of houses but it certainly will potentially put some downward price pressure. We bought a time share through Mary it many years ago that I've discussed well. There's an ongoing maintenance fee commitment to that and that ongoing commitment is one reason. The resale value on timeshares is quite low. Usually below what the individual paid for it. Many assets have an ongoing maintenance cost a storage cost just mental burden. Sometimes the cost is just knowing we own it and think about it and care for it. There's a cost sometimes. It costs US worth it but take a second home as an example. There's a cost the ongoing maintenance of that second home but the benefit in many cases for some individuals outweighs the cost is the optionality the ability to go and stay there whenever you want when negotiating. We should always consider are there. Are there cost and benefits apart from the price that would influence the price or help us in negotiating? I took a class negotiating class when I first got into the leasing business turns out most of our negotiation with with our own sales reps. But one of the things I remember is sort of all these non-price negotiating items that could be added to additional benefits. That you could negotiate for or are there additional ongoing costs that will allow you to negotiate a lower initial price. The second lesson is the importance of understanding. What you own. What is it. That's the first question in my book. Money for the rest of US. Ten questions to master successful investing. We need to be able to explain. How an investment works the number of users on the Robin Hood App that held views oil? Etf doubled from April seventeen when USO closed at four dollars and twenty one cents to the next Tuesday when it closed at two dollars. An eighty one since thirty-three percent decline. I suspect many of those users thought they were buying a barrel of oil and didn't realize they were buying into a super can tango situation where USO is having to dump front month contracts and then by more expensive later months contracts since that Tuesday when the number of users from robinhood double that own USO USO ETF has fallen another twenty five percent cutting the fifteen percent decline yesterday so it's important to be able to explain in simple terms to a friend or family member. What is it that we owned? How does it work? How does it make money? What's the expected return? What is the risk the potential harm? I go through those questions in my book that help us answer what it is one of the things that I I'm doing on the money for the rest of US website for free is provide guides to help individual investors better understand specific asset classes. I mentioned this last week. There's a new guide on investing in tips and I- shares this week. I have a new guide on how to invest in gold and the different ways to invest in gold. There's a guide on how to invest in closed end funds in the next one will be on how to invest in real estate investment trusts through comprehensive guides to help us understand. What is it that we own before we invest that so critical so we're not caught off guard by situation that could lead to negative prices like we saw with oil in the past few weeks? That's episode to ninety six. You can get show notes in links to this episode. Along with those guides. They mentioned at money for the rest of US DOT com. While you're there please sign up from my free weekly insider skied as the. It's an email. I sent out each Wednesday when I released an episode that contains an essay on money investing in the economy. Some of the best writing. I do each week. Just your inbox. You can sign up for that money for the rest of US dot com everything I've shared with you in this episode for General Education. I've not considered your specific risk situation of not provided investment advice. This is simply general education on money. Investing and the economy have a great week

USO Us Uso Robin harding Uso WTI Lincoln David Stein John Highland Texas Reuters Oklahoma officer
Episode 75: We Call Us Yang

They Call Us Bruce

1:05:09 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 75: We Call Us Yang

"Move Hello and welcome to another edition of they call us. Bruce unfiltered a conversation about what's happening in Asia America. I and I'm Jeff Yang and we are back from another little hiatus. Check in it's you you know these things happen right. We have stuff going on. You've got other stuff going on and then like weeks turned two weeks and more weeks and and here we are but we got a lot to talk about a lot of it. I feel like has to do with like Yang Gang adjacent people. Is that true. This is this week in yea ANA. Yes indeed so I'm going to start. Actually we'll do this in the format of our usual kind of good bad devotee f the good bad jeff if young them. Maybe it's just you and me here today. It is and our intrepid producer nick so yes. When we yeah we can hang onto our unusual art little game roose? Yes the good so we can call it the good the bad and the W. T. F. of gang this week in the end of this weekend. Yang yes and we almost had actually Jenny right. Yes we we did try to blast very last minute jenny our good friend comedian. Jerry Yang but timing didn't really work out so shadow to our show Pal Jenny and tell the lovely we'll get a for a next next the next segment and Yang Yes yes. This should be like an ongoing thing all right well so part of the reason why I and my son Hudson Yang who was on the boat. We'll just get that out of the where the running joke thing are busy is because we actually we we were on TV I mean for that's like normal right for me a little less normal but the reason why it's kind of what was super not normal and that's because we were just on family few yes liberally celebrity value. I am not the celebrity but we yeah we we were on their Steve Harvey Very Gracious. had a lot of fun going up against Sky Jackson of Jesse and bunked lovely lovely lady young lady. I've no idea who that is. You have a young daughter will learn what channel stars like but okay so quick recaptured. We're actually playing for east west players okay right because this is Larry source for charity and we we actually sleet despoilers right. We won ten K. for them. What would we we did okay but but honestly should've one more and this is so the format is family feud. we went through the questions pretty did well we were we were lucky and did well. There are a couple of kind of head shaking moments as you might guess a lot of income from me. One of the questions was you know what is it that Santa experienced that led him to. Never WanNa have children and I was like over thinking and said things like you know wh- or what has Santa Experience in the past rather that led him to never want to have children and I said something like kids teasing his reindeer or eating cookies you know those are two answers and they're both like whatever it was stuff like punching him in the fix. Wow Mall Santa that kind of thing. I think they were thinking Mall Center. I was thinking I was thinking like like the real recent who does exist. I was GONNA say as nineteen year old. We don't want it. We don't WanNa ruin a guy yeah but the the fact is we we won the normal round and then we actually got to you know the the final kind of speed round and this is where like we came so close to winning. I think it would have been twenty five thousand dollars for each players. Yeah we ended up at one hundred eighty. Four points was Hudson and his cousin Laurie and the thing that I I'm going to hold this right. The reason why we didn't get it was because of regional dialect right so so Steve Harvey has like a little bit of a southern accent right little yeah okay I mean you know plays it right yeah and so the the question that Hudson got or the one of the question was things you fill with sand right right but Steve Harvey pronounced press things things you feel with sand yeah right and Hudson's like things you feel with sand so his ass was rocks zero points and a- and if you'd known that it was Phil Not feel then he said he would have said bucket or Pail and that would have totally been fifteen points sort east west players so to me. That's grounds for like quotas. There's money involved actual game. People were playing for money and so was there like a like. Raising issues like a reset like there was a raised. The issue was raised. Okay who let Lori Redo it. She's do the second round because she does second round and but they couldn't do it for Hudson because Hudson had it was too late a- and the reason why they figured out that we we were not getting it we northeasterner Asian. Americans were not getting was because her answer I think was was his toes and thank you phil toes and she's like feel of sand like and then and then like Oh you know give it another chance to fill and so there you have it yeah feel you. I've never heard that we've okay yes so so that we have. You still got some money for he still we got ten K. for easily players and what was the other charity the other charity I don't know what Scott Jackson was due for actually but it was another I mean you know all the charities and being pretty it was like Adam rippon and Terry Bradshaw their families were before US Terry was doing it for. I don't know what he's doing it for. I actually can't remember what Adam Adam run on. was doing it for for glad okay right so anyway. This is okay so this is the longest discussion overhead and he's in my life about family. Few the show family feud have you. You've never been on a game show right. Have No. I HAVE NOT HAVE I know I've not. That's a weird thing to not. No not to not remember we. Is this your first time. He's brought up on the show before on family feud. No not family viewed I. I've been on who wants to be millionaire really yes. Yes I'm not a millionaire but you can look it up yeah yeah. It's actually there's a like a Wiki or something like for fans of who wants to be care. I mean I did. I did pretty well. I'll say that but it wasn't it wasn't enough like that could quit anytime but you know. I see the reason why I was like because I've watched so many many game shows that I always like if I always if I if I always spinning the wheel like put myself in that projected yourself. I I do pretty well the thing I so I mentioned this because I'm going to raise an issue about family feud that I've always hated about that. Show is that you know it's family feud and so you bring you play with the members of your family but nothing but the game play itself has anything to do with your family you could be just put together with a bunch which of radios and then it's all about matching your certain answers to these surveys to the audience what other family members satisfied that that was. Kinda like family component. Where how well do you know that kind of an Asian American show be called extended family and actually about be about a feud with your extended family like porn all the T- on the exactly say I just looked up the winnings damn missile right. I won't say it on air but it's Google go gaining. I'll I'll just say you know I had good life then. It's not surprise me at all that you did well on Jay. It was actually an easier show to do well on than than family feud frankly. If you had look we haven't had talked to Arthur. Chu Do one of these days about his jeopardy jeopardy winnings. Yeah Yeah Yeah Anyway there. Are there are a lot of Asian American game show contestants who have have who have done better than I have in my career game showing Dow was almost someone actually but turns out he was too good. It was a ringer actually all right. Well well good. That was good. That was my and let's talk about what else is good in the world of gang. That's why we have been to this. It's practically the reason why we convened tonight. Yes so last week Saturday Saturday night live announced its new cast members for three new cast members for the for the new season and one of them is comedian and writer Bowen Yang right a He's a mainstay of the New York comedy scene. He's Queer. He's he's kind of famous for these kind of built this cult following these lip sync videos. He does until the end brilliant. You know he's done what a random priestly from from the devil wears Prada. He's this really funny one of Cardi B. Just take the audio from these performances and then just you know just just do a perfect sync up of these of these performances end. It's it's it's hilarious. It's something that he made his own. Yeah and what I think is really amazing about it. Is that when those things went. Viral on twitter is when he kind of became a thing right so he's like kind of one of the he's a he's a twitter created I mean superstar superstar this point. Oh yeah right I mean I mean addition to being being actual comedian doing the scene and and then last selenium Gig as a writer on SNL yes so is also on one like the skits or whatever is like Kim Jong Il Kim Jong position to be to be hoisted up and be featured player on the cast. It was blowing a amongst Asian. Americans was born yeah US position to do well. I I mean there's so much resistance on that showed actually put putting an Asian American right on the cast right. This is a long time so yeah and he actually it turns out. He is the first person of Chinese descent right to be on the cast right there have been there actually have been other Asian American members. Fred is he stars thunders Japanese atrocities. That's CR- episode of I should do you. Who are you like bloodline or someone or not line loveless. It's like who do you. Who Do you think you are. Who you think you're yeah who the hell yeah no that show is It's the one that checks people's People's genealogy and like that show is that he's episode of the trip because roots finding your roots with with a skip gates hairless yeah yeah yeah okay but that one's a trip because his whole life he thought he was he was a quarter Javanese America or something and then and then he found that he was actually Korean but Japanese Korean or Korean court like his his grandfather Korean Japan had had a career career on the stage in Japan had Japanese stage team actually looking into the history. He's actually create this is also during the Occupation Korea. Japan would probably say they're all Japanese. No let's not go crazy story though yeah and then then actually BEF- before Rob Schneider Filipino yeah and has a has acknowledged and embraced that in various ways not not not necessarily somebody these days or you know we're raising the flag hi aggressively claiming but yeah so so nevertheless this is a milestone. Boeing Yang is the first Asian Casper that no one is going to be like oh he he's Asian Asian ladies clearly like like fito typically Asian right and last name Yeah Yeah Yeah I mean. This is kind of the running theme of this episode. At this point or Yang Yeah young passing. I will say speaking of Yang's right. I am Kinda wondering to what degree the the rise the arrival of you will Andrew Yang had anything to do with them deciding to impart anyway kind of like say you know we probably need somebody to play Asian. People roll like regularly now. I joked about twitter. I was like in the year twenty nineteen not that this would have stopped them before honestly because they've had I mean all manner of people playing like Weird Asians but I feel like this is Andrew. Yang thing might be happening enough that they need to address this on on and and have an actual person twenty nineteen of Asian descent playing angry addict. I one hundred percent predict what the sketch gadgets can be. It's GonNa be a game show. Andrea giving out two thousand dollars a month to lucky people whatever we're just kind of what he's doing yeah actually yeah picking ten people to watch the debate. I heard that's what he and and so forth worth. All these things connect connect back. He actually got into trouble for making a joke. I think pretty innocuous joke like some people like saying. It was kind of stereotypical that he said Oh. I'm Asian therefore I know a lot of doctors yeah yeah but I mean he said I mean. He's a whole strain of his campaign is also like Asian. I'm good at math yeah yeah. He's leaned into stereotypes. Yeah you know what I actually find that kind of refreshing on some level because part of part of we joke about it ourselves right part of D- limiting the energy and things is to kind of recover them and turn them into humor instead of into into malice right and and yet I mean these are times when those things can be misused used stereotypes in particular and and language right and the the kind of the bad part right of the arrival of Bone Yang gang is that he wasn't the only one to be named the cast yeah so we we did too good at this is the OBAMAS are bad yeah. Let's go to the bad about yen but we're still going strong. It's an exciting time of Asian Americans. They're there are more movies. TV shows books and music reflecting us than ever but all of these represent just a small slice of Asian American culture experiences. So what do we do. Tell more slices. Asian American is a show that explores these slices of distinctly Asian American culture and history. We've talked about how Chinese Americans built California Sacramento Delta The Art Scene Turns Gallery institution giant robot a play that explores the loss Cambodian pop music of the Sixties and seventies and of course Boba just to name a few stories as you can find Asian American Asian Americana. Dot Com or on your podcast. APP didn't todd proven long I mentioned three there are three new cast members announce one of them bone young and one of them is a guy named Shane Gillis right. I never heard of this guy before ordering but that's that's true for most of the people who get the first timers on. He's a real real quick before we go into that. I feel like it's fair to bring up the third person name is Khloe fine. What the fuck have I got my shot over here bag those like she's probably pretty good at whatever she's she amazing actually honestly just on she has she does impression really good impressions and and I I think actually she kind of became famous on instagram again working calm. I Ha- well well yeah. They always need not great impressionist. Yes another social media kind of rival right. Okay so Shane Gillis thing. I've I've never like whatever okay he he like the second. This is announced someone you know go just goes to his previous work and digs up as I quote unquote digs up. you know this interview this podcast on basically he's own pocket Mike and the secret podcast right he says also stuff. They just dig up. He digs up comments from his own podcast. basically Talking Shit Shit about Chinese people about Chinatown and in calling Chinese people fucking Chinks yes among other things and then as the day goes on the just start taking up all this just trash stuff. He says yes and this I actually think this is where the the the money is right so he's he's kind of one of these comedians. Let's say one of these. White Comedians who feels like comedy is there to excuse essentially running along the edge of insensitivity and offensiveness as a means of I duNno expanding conversation expanding horizons. I mean excuse always is like Oh. We can't do good comedy unless we take risks. That's literally what he said in his so called apology right but the fact is these are the least east risky things to do to mock people collartoo mock women to to make homophobic jokes. There is no risk in that yeah. Literally people been doing that since a third grade but be like time immemorial so there's nothing new. There's nothing risky not even interesting funny about that and yet this guy Shane Gillis us He's done kind of study in this. He he had a he used to have this comedy. Show where people were able to essentially text next things and the texts would appear behind the comic who's performing so there'd be sort of like trash in the comic or or saying saying stuff in the background and that background commentary part of the show and one of the things that they did sort of comment on the commentary right so shame it was like one of the things we realized early on was looking at the things that people found funny based on this right and it's obvious that you can always always Mark Asians. You're never gonNA get hurt you know if you mock Asians or you know Muslim terrorists Muslim extreme extreme you know rat is Islamic radicals but God forbid you say anything about police brutality because no white people don't like that right so he's he's cop out like what that makes white people in these contexts laugh you know and apparently one of those things. Is You know Punching Asians in the face. Look I know what you mean about you. Know Comedians always say you. GotTa take risks and you know this. Is You know this is my ah but I feel like people have always use that as there is little shield right this like Thin Shield I. I'm sorry but communities are not a protected class right. You're allowed to say whatever you want but that doesn't allow you to say what you want and then be and then just absolve you of responsibility for that and the thing that bugs me most is that like in the context of a podcast just because you have a pockets that means you could say shit you want in high apparently. Chris you listen to the comments so you know the question. You know like this isn't even an act. This is a comedy sketch. They're not even they're just talking and so you talk shit and I'm like this is not comedy. This is not absolve you of responsibility for saying fucking. Chinks like I'm sorry but this is a fireball offense and I mean he just got hired if someone if you're in a job in a job interview situation and someone dug up this stuff and I'm I say dug up because this happened just this past abusive timber Jimmy Eighteen less right. It's not like he was like ten years ago but if someone dug that up I you know I'd be like forget it. This is not worth this guy. We should hire this guy you know. He says he's just fucked up shit. All I think also will do things one. I think he probably could have gotten away with it. If he didn't delete his entire podcast the minute he got hired like the announcement came out like after after that he completely purged all the archives basically basically look the Internet does not forget all right. I don't care our podcast. This PODCAST GONNA be around if I if I run. I'm not going to present but if I ever have president president you know I'm sure people will pull this podcast and find ways to be offended and stuff. I say you know whatever I there's. There's nothing that's. I don't think there's anything I've said on on this podcast. We're just in general that I regret in the things I do regret. I've profusely reflected on an apologized for and actually I think that Kinda gets to it right so one of the things which which on the Internet I feel like have ended up having to have a lot of conversation around. Is this this question of like. Oh so is this cancel culture quote unquote right. Is this like you you know when when you make a mistake quote unquote. Are you a race from all history and can never actually hold a job again or something like that. I'm like no you know there are absolutely ways in but you can make huge fuck ups and still recover you know and by learning and growing right by by embracing the fact that you made a mistake in meaning sending it and actually performing acts of redress the people who've been harmed but Shane's actual quote apology the only statement. He's is made so far right. I it's not an apology and it's not an apology is not an apology. Basically it's like if anybody has been. I would be glad to apologize hottest. Anybody who's been offended by this basically and then the whole thing about be risky. Whatever I'm like at first. I was like okay this typical shitty you know I Apologize College. If you're hurt apology then read it closely. It's like this is not an say. He apologized for us if he's willing to extend its voucher for Coupon College College Fund. That's what I call it a lesson. I owe you a hug or no good. This is good for one and honestly the Somebody responded to me on twitter when I was like this is a group on so you know what we should actually demand our politics individually to him and see if he he makes good on that offer 'cause he fucking doc and won't yeah yeah. We're we're sorry we'll be starting to sign up sheet apologize. He wants an apology from Shane Gillis or sign up sheet eight in he'll be it's up to him to deliver the each policy one by one honestly if he personally and uniquely apologizes to every person who's been offended who who asked him for an apology then you know what maybe Maybe it's okay to let him go on but no. I'm like no like I I. I just feel yeah. I just think you know you when you actually do listen back to the tape of him. Actually saying it like first of all he did not during like a stand end a bit which is Kinda understandable where you can kinda weave through basically like that's how a lot of stand up comedians operate like Chris Rock. You Know Eddie Murphy all these people you know the comedy grades they navigate through almost like the taboo and stuff like that and that's kind of part of the joy of it however on comedy podcast. That's not the same as I like. Stand up comedy and if you actually just listened to it sounds like you know it just sounds like hate speech on us if it wasn't even if he wasn't a comedian would be even I would. This even be an issue. You'd be like if this is some regular like some regular dudes podcast. You know like it would be an issue like he is an it sounds if you listen to podcasts not just that episode the other one right. It sounds like you know one of your typical right cutoff fringe not fringe to the Nazi type of thing. We're all they're doing is like saying basically you know women any and of course he uses the F word for gay people and you know He. They're like trashing. People who dared have feelings you know other comedians saying. Oh that pussy because he he dares to actually have emotions wherever whatever it's like just typical shitty you know white all righty kind of off right. Yeah yeah nothing new. If this was some other off some are assholes podcast like it wouldn't be up for debate. We'd just dismiss. We'd be like I mean as racist but it's it's. It's it's like but because it's a comedy now to jump through these hoops of like. Oh but like you know is this Catholic culture because they can't say what I want in the name of quote comedy and Good Art Art and all that stuff and it's like fuck you man. That's what do you like. You're not even trying. Honestly it's also it's a comedy podcast and this is on the podcast Catholic. I guess in a lot of ways they call comedy podcast just because we're not sure more to the point though it's it's like the comedy talking like it's a label on itunes. You know like it's it's not like it's not a wet. It's a sign that you hold there and be like you know enter all Yeehoo leg. You know like know what you're going into like. You can cover so much basis on that like I don't know I just feel like I know I know the taxonomy podcasts close to your heart nick mysteriously though it's just it's bs because it's it if it was structured and if you really put thought into it it would be one thing but just listening to him talk about this shit. It's obvious that it's off-the-peg you know the top of his head not in a good way you know well yes and and so this is the the the next beat on that right. I mean in this whole conversation about whether or not he could ever be allowed to move forward. Yeah you know what if you actually make restitution. Honestly he can have a great career. I think that the smart thing to do would have been to apologize to chloe and to to Boeing for basically fucking up this moment for them and then say you know what I'm I'm going to actually suspend or withdraw from contention for this season of Saint Live because it's more important to me to see the show. Don't do well and my fellow comics do well then to kind of bring this cloud right so that leads me to my question like a multi questions one like what does she do from here but also what are they doing now. What are they. What were they vetting. This is betting situation at all like it doesn't seem it seems very really shallow dive into anybody's passed to come up with this stuff right like was there any vetting at all and then the other part and this is a theory that I've seen advanced like maybe that was this was their intention all along like to bring this guy you know but okay but now now now right as far as I know there has not been a single statement right right or single recording as of this recording yeah in which NBC SNL as we kind of address this he has not been fired yet right and I'm sorry like you think about other people who have been held to the wall for prior statements or or even jokes like you know gardens the galaxy all right. I mean you know the what's his name. The Director of Gardens Ah James Gone Gone Got Suicide Squad old tweets Oh nice tweets which were pretty terrible but they were clearly spoken ingest right still still offensive he did apologize them. He and he didn't try to deny them right. He just I said I was like super terrible and then you know so ah yes but he nevertheless got fired and and kicked off and then you know yard. I guess yeah but part of why he was actually fired was huge campaign. Yeah on on the right to say oh. This guy is all these terrible things you know as vindictive active in horrible and and yet and yet when any of this stuff is said or done from the ray they don't gray area. It's not an issue there crickets yeah they they they literally wanted to to score a notch on the belt right and yet here we are you know in day whatever of Gillis Gate Yeah and and crickets right even worse than his statements like like Dole skit. Oh Yeah I mean I think I saw Rebecca Choson. advanced this theory but like it's Kinda Gross Kasan Yeah yeah the Hollywood reporter more guess on there's pockets but she kind of Vir is that like Gillis represents this kind of comic who or this kind of sentiment that's like who doesn't you know doesn't want to bow down to quote political correctness. I mean like if you look at someone like and then he's the polar opposite someone like Boeing Yang Hang who is Asian American the first asian-american bones like politico police but like I hate that phrase made such an issue take a lot of people made assistant issue the fact that there hasn't really been like you know there's been poultry representation of Asian Americans on Saturday night live cast right wing and then and suddenly that now that we've got it like now that bone young is higher like wow this is like a snl sort of caving to to political correctness and let you know or or just like you know demands for diversity inclusion and then but this Guy Shane Gillis kind of represents that that fuck you to peace the legal correctness and like to sort of balance that out and to be like you know the guy who and so here's what happens now if he does get fired if or or if he he's offered rescinded or whatever it stokes this whole other thing right this is on all levels and it sucks sucks because we can't celebrate sort of bone. Yang's you know hiring because it's books and for its worth Boeing is doing we have really good job just like not commenting talking about other stuff which is all good on him. He should not have to have anything to do with this shit which is like interesting because okay again like diving back into the stuff that that Gallison and his his his cohort talked about on this podcast right so that whole notion of like them being the arbiters what is actually funny right you know because of the last the last man N. standing so to speak who are you know willing to stand up the fact that humorless. Sj ws or something are making comedy. Suck they they did this one episode where they had this whole sort of roster or ranking of of comics and basically saying like. Oh you know yes of course straight. Wait wait a minute. The funniest you know black comics pretty funny to you know but then you go down the ladder and then it's like you know you've got you know black comics Alan and then like George Lopez and then you know Indian comics and then at the very bottom and gay comics and then the very bottom is is white white chick comics. That's the phrase they used their the worst etc and the invoked Alley Wall. They said you know what Allie Wong Alley Wong's funny. She's actually making some Asian chick. Comics are actually funnier than white comic on the bottom right and the reason why why you know that kind of curls my my got on some level. Is You know that specific racialist and kind of identity to find shaping of of comex like is them showing their ass. Yeah it is no longer about the individual comics what they do. It's about like fucking racism and saw Janie and homophobia. They're they're putting everybody bucket. They're using identity politics white identity politics to frame the rest of the world and this happens all the time from that perspective where they decry you know what they would call the politics of victimization or marginalization or identity right and then they will use that they'll impose that from the from the top from their vision of privilege yeah yeah you know as like straight white man and CETERA. I mean look you know. Allie Wong is funny as Hell Nakashima Queen Asian chick comic because she is one of the hardest just working smartest and just literally funniest women on the circuit. Everybody will tell you that right and the thing is. She's an Asian woman right. The Asian womanhood does not define comedy but her communist is expansive and is more than capable of representing that as part of her and I think that's kind of like that's really what what college should be about not denominated by entities but you know we we should not neither be ashamed of identities nor should you know in the context of local political correctness quote unquote or not like she does not pull any punches yeah. She marks herself and others. She doesn't such a way that I think it's it's it's both smart and Nankai Shade and surprising and she's very very very rarely. I think coca punches down yeah. She always punches up and more to that. She's funny like you know like it starts from there. She's funny yeah well. I I I feel like with calm like a huge like comedian ban and personally comedy Fan Yep. I've spent stand up comedy but in general but you know that's one of my I guess you know pet peeves of. I really love kind of that. Edgy humor. Ask thing not really like you know of course tosh boy no and all that sophomore so of using comedy as a way to address issues that are kind of like you know that you don't bring up in conversation doing it intelligently and you know one of my favorite comics is Andrew Schultz and he really you know uses that where it's like youth rod the hot take like you know where it's almost like so ludicrous and from the you know you explored that idea but it always comes back centre where it's like you know there's a trust between the mutual understanding between the audience and then also the comedian where it's like you know not that we're not taking it seriously but like you know. I it's the suspension of disbelief you know and I think when it comes to like you know the podcast format and stuff like that. That relationship isn't there you know and I I think you know the biggest way. The biggest like evidence for this is if you actually just listen to it you know it it. It doesn't sound like but he's a stand up. It doesn't sound like a piece of you know something that he worked on it. Just sounds like some dude. spouting racist shit which it is it. It is right. I mean I don't. I don't think he's even David claim that it is material per se but the funny thing is that he apparently is now claiming that that that version of himself is a character playing character right yeah retroactively of coordinator actively so yeah you can we see that character and Sarah the big at billy. What do you think of Andrew Young Sandton on the so. I guess we gotTa talk about that. Yeah Yeah I mean look look you know we began this little piece of it. By saying like may part of the reason why Boeing you hang is is being hired because the relevance of Asians in popular for Culture has gone to this point where the need tavern an Asia cast member to to to play that and I think obviously android part of that I mean I I think it'll be great if we actually could have him on the show and we've been trying. We have in the past to have bigger conversations. I feel like you know There are a lot of things. I mean I've known for a long time. I don't agree with you know with some of the things he says and does I do feel however its its groundbreaking that he is there that he's that he exists yeah and it is amazing saying that he has gone so far yeah but some of the things which I have issues with kind of come out and stuff like this where his response ons was pretty much to extend this you know sort of like preemptive forgiveness because here's the thing yeah so. Gillis didn't stop with those acts of petty and Shitty Racism. He actually also show us the the the the word Chink in reference actually to Andrew Yang right okay. Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah he sang for whatever reason a Jew Chink I mean what I don't yet that and so end Henry actually responded to that by saying I like comedy but I don't like cheap shots but then apparently he went unpack and listen to some of his stuff and and basically you know had this long tweet thread about saying I believe John. You know that Shankill's was not militias. He's still an evolving unformed comic. You know I I WANNA. Give him basically so you know best. you know. I extend the opportunity to have a conversation and I do nothing should be fired and eh forgive him. In advance and I was like God please don't and and he also talked about how the word Chink is or other Asians. You know to to our point you know that Asians often are subject to racism in part because it's so easy for us you know I it's like it's worse for us somehow because because it's perceived that's easy to to target us and we don't respond right so I have two points on that one is he he actually kind of did a little comparing of Asians to African. Americans and I feel like that's always a bad move yeah. Let's bad take. It's a it's a it's a badge for bad that EH K. I I saw a Swiss on twitter a lot this weekend and just like don't you go there. You're not have to go there. You know so so you you. WanNa react yeah I mean I was entire like right here but that specific tweet is you know it's also the case is that Anti Asian racism particularly of by virulent virulent Jesus because it somehow considered more acceptable if Shane had used use the N. word the treatment will likely be immediate clear man. Don't don't do that look. Here's the thing you're running for the presidency number one you know like you gotta be reflective and thoughtful about the people represented the issues you're representing and the a deeper and broader history of who we are especially you know in in on the left if you will right. I mean you know the entirety of of of both the past the present and the future of the Democratic Party rests on in many ways the hard work the sweat blood and tears that after Americans have shed to to build a foundation of civil rights and US and we as Asian asian-americans I mean you know we've been a part of that history but we have benefited from it so extensively right and to even attempt to compare the the kinds of things that we have gone through to like a population that has been enslaved in in this country and subjected to the very worst continuing to this day the very worst kinds of of oppression abuse and institutional aw marginalization is is it in it yeah. It's just not there's no re. There's no reason or are or value in comparing these oppressions you know what I mean and because it's just not even close to the same level or like the same kind kind of We can't have that conversation. You know about like saying who's who's headed worse like you know what I mean like it. No good comes of that. I often nothing good ever just different circles like you know I mean the tomb struggles will but their struggles that are as they are connected. They're connected because we are building on the foundation for Americans have laid made of of equality in this country for all of us were not white basically within and then on top of that but the positioning and as if this had been the N. Word Yeah the the you know the reaction would have been swift and there would have been just an just like I'm sorry but like you cannot compare sort of like the the oppression and the violence and everything that you know sort of the black community has been through and then try to compare that like well the the C word like we you know like we just don't we we're just not there yet you know and and as if as if oppression is it's worse off for us because people did speak up on our behalf in that like you know because some of the Chink you know I look look bottom line is this andrew is a good guy and a smart guy right you know separating out the politics when person I genuinely have only ever known him as somebody who has tried his best to reach out to connect and and to to be somebody who expresses empathy to other people right but that's kind of one of the pitfalls also running for office and being somebody who has as as kind of you know human normal human if you will not not somebody who was carved out of a block of political ice right as as some candidates have been you sometimes we'll in the age of twitter find on yourself getting over your skis and saying things that probably does not do not fully judged the the room and now the room but history and the context of where speaking right right. I I also WanNa address something else. Could I say so. This is where you and I think we're our our diverge. 'cause I don't know Andrew I we have a we have a lot of a beautiful friends. You've known I've never met him before. I don't know him. I never knew who he was until he started running for president honestly but like all this stuff that has happened in my mind based on the information. I've had and all the performance the debase like his his. He has tumbled in my sort of esteem like yeah I don't like. I don't know much about him but like I haven't really. I appreciated that he was there. He's been in the mix that he's been a candidate and his ideas a lot. We're like okay whatever a lot of them are like Oh. That's a good one and then a lot of them are like sorry but I'm appreciative as their ear appreciate it. He's like trying to like you know he's one of these guys who are kind of like an out of the box problem solver and then like you know he's he's dressing that like the number really pays attention attention to. I I that said you know stuff like this for me. I'm like I can't. I can't get behind someone who will. I'll say this you know and you know you're more forgiving of the stuff. He said regarding sort of like leaning into these stereotypes. I'm not forgiving your understanding outstanding of it but only because I again I know him. As a person you know and that's the thing it's like we ultimately don't really we. We can't just simply elect people because they're nice guys who look like us or they look at yeah. Exactly I mean there's there's such a deep well of of imminent catastrophe in this country and man. I'm I'm like a for for him for me to me him saying stuff like I'm Asian. I'm good at math. I and I know he means it as joe as a allusion to him trying to come up with just smarter solutions especially in comparison to the guy who's currently in office and I know but his line about the doctors about a doctor's like not even necessary area and then to me. It's him playing into look man. I know I look like this but you need to be afraid of me. Yeah it's him so that literally is the second point right which is like this whole notion of sort of respectability politics and like the model minority right yeah and I actually feel like the the way the rest thread rolled out actually was I mean it was it was secondary to again that that just in infernal comparison that I see a lot of Asian markets making taking and we just talked about you know sort of that comparison to African Americans. It's unacceptable. We shouldn't do that period right but the second piece is is this like I don't think that we either have the right or the responsibility to to Kinda play this role of absorbing these blows and and giving absolution to folks who have established lengthy records of being like fucked up racists and homophobes and it's not it's like yes I grant you forgive his great and I mean in mercy's great and look look the from the bottom of my heart. I do believe those things are both necessary and valuable in a leader as well as us as people people but it's there's a process that if we are going to be better society we need to actually learn and sometimes that learning comes at the edge of you know of of like consequences for what you do right right. This is somebody who has not apologized who doesn't feel he did anything wrong. Who To this point to this day. He doesn't seem like he has any interest in even acknowledging that what he has done is is wrong and I don't think he will. I think it's going to go down in flames on this. It's been like a you know how many days now for him to it's been. It feels like arrived three weeks but actually it's just been like seventy two hours in this in this like new new cycle reality. If you aren't if you aren't responding in like twenty four hours then you don't you don't give a shit yeah period I and that but that's what bugs me about Andrew Yang's response like Oh shouldn't be fired. I think just sit down and talk about it like it's like it's a difference of or like a guy who just made a mistake. He's a baby comic like China Mark Fucking Baby. Live your your comments on one for you want. The one thing like this is a gig on Saturday night. Live is the most coveted high profile thing you can get in comedy. Do not tell tell me. This is the best that you can come up with right. There's that and if you even if you got another white guy who centralized seems to be shortage of white guys I I don't know but even if it was that I'm sorry but you can find you can do better with regard to Andrew Yang's comment on this. I'm like that also feels like me him him pandering to this to this. I'm not coming for you. I'm not trying to burn everything down. I'm here you know make peace with the whites. That's the key with China is trying to make peace with like you know. There's a big hole thing about him. Sort of winning over former trump supporters and that to me is I can't get down with. I'm sorry not not what it means that you know like now what it means coming quote go halfway halfway to where they are as halfway to help right so that so that comment of him addressing sort of like the supporters of is is it's supposed supposedly addressing addressing Gillis but it's actually addressing support the would be supporters of Gillis saying like I'm not here to. I'm not here to cancel. Everybody have a telephone conversation where we sit down over coffee. Whatever and talk it out. I'm like I'm no man like don't pander to this. You know so just flip it back actually actually to to kill us for second because ultimately look you know I we you know we could go on all day about about like the intricacies of how and whether those there is in a you know a better way to address this. I've even thought about myself like I when I kinda winner on this. I'm like what is what is the best route to to address this. Is this something where I want to focus on like I sure you too. I got a ton of people saying hey you know you should pay attention to this. Can you get this guy fired like look. My job is not to like hire and fire people bowl. You know it's like when we're in conversation either here on the podcast on twitter it is to hopefully have people think about stuff think think think harder about stuff including the people who you know like Shane. Gillis are out there on their probably you know in the Sea of of responses coming back at them too but you know what if he's fired by Saturday night live that Saturn lives business if they're gonNA do what they should've done a long you know like our days ago right but the the one thing that I find like kind of unforgivable on top of all the other things that are unforgivable. Gillis is he actually went out of his way to call it fucking Hassan Manashe. Oh who to me. I think some knowledge is one of the funniest smartest guys would always say he it was was like in the part of the the conversation was talking about like ranking. COMEDIANS and he kept on using some knowledge as an example of somebody who was like not funny uh-huh and and who was like embarrassing Wade's arms around like this this dude is like sitting you you know talking about like like mocking Chinese people and calling noodles neuters and that's his level of comedy meanwhile assange like went in front of Congress right and did possibly the smartest and funniest piece of Reginald testimony. They will ever exist like literally yeah on student loans. It was just brilliant brilliant work yeah and and every every episode of Patriot Act does is Actually the I think at that level I mean it's the smartest damping in comedy is the smartest campaign. Come in what anybody anybody who says that that is not it's not funny like fuck them and and you know like that's enough reason to not have one on anything like Sarala and even within the comedy world. You don't go after fellow like comics like that like you don't like if you think do not like actually know like Ashley though it's it's that's one the big things with you know just the whole. Colt of Stanton Suffolk that is that you just do not go out your fellows unless it's still jokes yeah exactly. That's like the original center whatever but like you know it. It's more so to the fact that he's expecting this kind of like respect that comes within comedy of Hey. You know I say jokes. I might see some fucked up stuff. That isn't funny but like you know hey. It's all good. It's comedy like you know that comes with the League. The territory also comes with the territory is like not being an asshole in you know shitting on other comics who are doing the same exact stuff that you are. Are you know it's like it's just it just like shows some level of disrespect disrespect when it comes to comedy as like the medium where it's like. You're taking without actually providing back well. The comics have broken okay code. I suppose because other people have called him out of gang Jimmy O Yang. He tweeted out. I usually don't actually see comics. I think this fuckers gotta go yeah. I mean he's back. I don't think it's a controversial thing to say like fuck this guy. I mean what he says is so so it's not even really open to interpretation. You can't really like say like Oh. That was like you know like he's got an angle point of view about this like no you just he he just said fucked up shit. I mean you know in this because he said on a podcast. I don't think it you get you're not protected. I'm sorry no oh you know. We're we're. We said this already sorry but like but I I just don't understand how this is even up for debate. Well okay so a lot. aww Bad yeah a lot of bad fairmount. WF In there too yeah yeah I guess we should close do want to put it on their W T F. We can talk about a young lady. They say our their game wins the same high school to high school. Were like there's. There's a Shitload of true. I mean yeah but like I don't know if that would explain anything. That's that's the thing I like like kind of thinking back on it and it's like because I I went to a boarding school in like New Hampshire which is obviously very very white and I almost feel like well. I feel like I'm not saying that where he you know engineering developed almost his own identity as an Asian American but like when I came into Exeter there was very much not like the Asian American community as a whole was very not establish their heart of like what I I was doing it during my time was trying to establish through like clubs and discussions with like fellow friends and stuff but it's just like it's really isolating yeah you know and you really become it. You search like have that defense mechanism of like I'll play into it a little bit and be you like you know like I know chopsticks. ha ha ha but like you know like. I'm like you guys. You know I it's. It's just like the compromising Asian like it's really easy to play into that stuff and it's really it's the way that most people do. They're not in a place where there are other Asian American score proud to be Asian American right. I hear you and I will say this. I mean one of the things that comes out of this conversation is that there is a lot more need for context. I think around where we as Americans come from you know in conversation I think internally as well about about what I don't know I think I look I will acknowledge as much save anybody else's speaking as an American and East Asian American coming from the Northeast the big city having gone to you know good schools obviously and I went to Harvard College Right. I mean you know there's a certain amount of uh of assumed and real privilege you know in in the position that I'm in and and actually I try really hard to kind of think about how how to not be that guy but I'm that guy sometimes. I'm like always that guy after work hard not to be that Guy Right. I think that's probably something we need to talk more about. Especially since it's a Harvard is at the epicenter right now of that guide them you know with the anytime now right the the affirmative action case is is going to come come out the the the the the ruling on that by the judge and I it's GonNa. Shit show like no matter what happens commissioner show. I think that we have a lot of thinking to do and consideration you know about who we are where we standing what we're trying to accomplish as a broader in very diverse community and I don't know look this is just the very tippy iceberg. We can't do it on this episode. Even maybe this podcast August but if we can be a little part of that we've done something a little bit heavy uh-huh and w just throwing their little league W. F. I realize realized that my the more my professors listened to the podcast which is like dope shouts out to Dr Tamai educating in Asian Americans on our yes go for that next next generation yeah yeah well look. WF Wise. I think it's actually just for me at w. t. f. that like so many we've freaking. Yang's have been in the news recently. I kinda love it but I also like what is going on. so you know hey out there the Yang clan and the Yang I'm Michelle to gene favorites my friend of the Yang's just you. You know what's doing all great. He's just he's one of those guys who if his name is attached to anything. It's GONNA be awesome. I you know what there is something actually so gene actually just this not w. f. and all this totally a good but there's little doubt in it in that the origin of this of this project is like. Whoa oh so gene actually just finish a project for DC. Oh yeah which is remain smashes the clan Dan yeah so clearly. It's like a jumps off of an old time radio serial yeah which actually was about Superman fighting finding the clan clan like the K. k. k. yeah like routing and one of the things which actually drew him. I think like actually the the inciting avent's of the radio. The original radio series was like something related to an Asian family or really yeah so anyway that that comic is out right. We don't think it's out yet well. He he'll exists. He asked me up. You may not have been address to send it so I'm like. Yes yes so when that comes out. We let's get them on. We're GONNA get him on yeah. He's here right here. We're GONNA get him on so I guess for us is like you know maybe it was like W. F. would've taken so long for the this comes to us all right well. Hey we had a lot to talk about here it was I. I thought we were going to do a little bit more of like a I wouldn't say lightweight but sort of you know who is going to this one yeah. I thought we were just going to check in in December as what's up having but sometimes things go yeah all right well that does it for this episode. Jeff where can people you'll find you online they can find original spin on twitter and elsewhere and Phil how about yourself you can find me at angry Asian man and on Anger Asianart Joie dot com you can find our show at they call spruce on twitter instagram facebook etcetera. Please hop on Apple podcasts and give us arraigning or review. We'd really appreciate it and it would help people find the show Nick Song. Where can people find you online. Oh yeah follow me at at I'm Nick Song twitter Instagram facebook. Even I can add one thing. The last podcast we did was like thirty years ago. No it was like about a month ago. Ago was with of course constance. Wu and I will say this weekend that we're recording this. hustles came out yeah right her. Jennifer Lopez amazing easily the highest slash stripper a movie about strippers and sex work and the crime drama crime drama but also like this incredible document exploring the roots of like you know the breakdown financial system and like inequity in America work in a whole range of other issues. It crushed the box. It's like thirty three million dollars again. Proof of power like two thirds of the people watching women two thirds of people watching more poor people are mostly women of color and it just proves something that we've been talking about all along you know tell great stories with diverse audiences and diverse audience out with diverse cast yeah so you know pop prompts to a constant for it's worth that episode yeah got a little bit of. Love Yeah Yeah Vulture Vulture call the sound bolger read. They said we were the definitive constants who podcast Mike Asteroid so so if you haven't heard yeah go back for it so hustlers. You're welcome. I give you that little box seriously conversation great movie. Go see it. I I like it a lot and it was a great movie. Yeah all right all right. Well does it for this episode of calls roosts. Thank you so much for listening piece. You've been listening to they. Call US Bruce with Jeff Yang and Phil. You our theme music is by Kiro One. Our producer is Nick Song. They call us. Bruce is a member of the POTLUCK podcast collective featuring unique voices and stories from the Asian American community find out more at podcasts cast potluck dot com and thanks for listening.

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Episode 88: They Call Us Gene Luen Yang

They Call Us Bruce

1:18:18 hr | 8 months ago

Episode 88: They Call Us Gene Luen Yang

"Donald Hello and welcome to another edition of they. Call US Bruce unfiltered conversation about what's happening in in America and at the comic shop until you and I'm Jeff Yang and we're here with one of our very favorite friends. It's one very favorite gangs. People jean-louis Yang is back with us not in physical presence but remotely remotely from his wife's closet at home. That's right that's where I'm hiding right now Thank you so much for making both both the effort and the sacrifice for audio purposes to come on a yet another episode of they call spruce. We'll always love talking to you. And oh I am thrilled to be back. Thank you thank you fill in. It's it's a great time for you to be back. You've got a lot of stuff that we wanNA talk to you about And I mean I'm sure there are things that You WanNa talk to us about as well absolutely absolutely right So let's begin by saying that We have just been like rapidly reading through some of the The A- amazing works that are just like falling from the sky with your name and your creativity on and we WanNa talk about two of your most recent projects projects forthcoming projects actually On this episode in particular one. Is your latest graphic novel both written Android Undrawn by you dragon hoops which was mind blowing leasing. And we'll probably talk a little bit of that first and then also the collected version of your your miniseries on Superman. Superman smashes the clan which was amazing. It was so epic and and again looking for talking about that as well But Yeah let's start with dragon groups. I think I don't know about you but I was when I ah Jeff but when I heard that Gene was taking on his. He's he's coming out with this new graphic novel but then he was going to focus on basketball. I instantly thought it was going to be because it's called Dragon hoops that that's going to have a like a a Chinese basketball element to it. I mean there is a little bit of that in there but I did not know and also I did not know it was going to be Bronze purposes like a nonfiction chronicle of something something. That actually happened gene. Can you talk about what Dragon. hoops is for audience. And then how you came. Aim about well. It dragged. hoops is a book that I never thought I would do. Because you guys have met me in person right and you know what I look like physically weekly so you know that I was I was gonNA say Sports Guy. I wasn't going to see. Yeah you know it's it's funny because one of the guys I grew up with is is is kind of famous now. His name is Brian Yang. You guys have had them. I'm on I'm wait a second. Well I do not know you grew up with him. We say grew up within a free. Get out what we're we're we're kind of friends and Yeah Yeah we went to the same Chinese school and then And then I ended up going to one high school and he went to high school that I was supposed to go off in junior high friends. I yeah so so. He's the play basketball courts Chinese school and that first page. I A kid making fun of me. That's essentially like Brian. I didn't draw him to look him right. Through bullet passed. I sat me and hurt me a call. He was the one that started calling you stick. Here's the first one that I started calling. You know. I don't know if I can own this. Gang Gang violence first of all but yeah but we grew up together. That is amazing. I went to Chinese school together. That so yeah we what did you see. You know what we might have been the same junior high but you know the bullying was Obama. I liked it out. It was just it was just one of those things where like every time I got on the court and he he was one of the when you know out of all the Asian kids might in my little crew us one of the ones that was really good. And there's we there's also so this other kid named Chris site they were the two light you know Asian American basketball players and and they would try to be nice. You know they throw passes at me leave for a while. And then eventually they learned their lesson and whenever I was on the court I was like this. I don't know there's this force field around me and nobody pass them not really happy about it was my childhood experience with With basketball I never in a million years do a book about basketball but okay now you are tall right I mean you. You can't teach height. That's what it's all Hudson all the time that that you know. There's at least that physical advantage but I guess it's the other stuff like being coordinated and having you know had I coordination and reflexes and all that stuff that was that was the barrier. Yeah I was. I was not taller junior high. I was definitely not telling junior high. And then after I hit my Grossberg it actually became more painful for digit outside and there ended up being this like expectation. You know like the few times that I got tricked into playing basketball when I stepped on the court people kind of looked at me like they had some expectations and then as soon as they saw me you try to catch a pass. All those expectations just disappeared so it was. It was like the basketball court was always like this arena of humiliation for me as a kid you know I just tried to stay away from it as much as I could. I think we have to just I wanted to ask you about I wanted to ask you about About Hudson how'd you do that dude. Like what's your feedback you. I want to say. We Fed him smaller actress. Just getting now he's I it. It was some weird act of of of retrograde genetic something like mutation or whatever. His Mom's family family definitely has has more hygienes than mine does but it is. It is pretty extraordinary and on that note I mean. He's also growing up in an era in which expectations around and Asians playing basketball are very different. Part of the reason for that is in fact Brian Yan because Brian helped to bring and document the story of yet. Another famous Bay area Basketball player of Asian descent And brought it to the screen in a document called sanity so just to contextualize Brian. Yang is the same Brian Yang. Who Yeah that's right and now when you were growing I mean he i? He wasn't a temporary with with Jeremy Jeremy's younger than than all of us obviously But when you guys were growing and Brian was kind of like you know a fiend on the court in a larger sense though being Asian and playing ball like like it wasn't like people looked at at Asian Americans and said that guy's a baller right. I mean they're still sort of general. Stereotypes Asians can't can't play. Yes absolutely and I think that Asians weren't welcome so between my My eighth grade graded freshman years. I actually moved so I ended up going to a neighboring high school Brian went to win. That had a larger Asian American population of his night. I went to one that had a much smaller school where I was supposed to go. Wow I went to Sir Toga. Okay Yeah Yeah Yeah went to. I went to I went to homestead so in the neighborhood man so we we ran. We ran track. Needs Against Dude. That's right it really is true. Every single Asian nosy. But but you know am am I my school much smaller Asian American population. A couple of my friends you know in my immediate friend group were. We're on the basketball team. And this this sort of this incident kind of has always cemented me what it was like to be An Asian American Eric on on the basketball team back then So so one of my friends. He had a basketball hoop on his garage above his garage door. And then and then one night you know they they hear the loud bang outside and somebody had pulled off the backboard right so they bought a new one. They put it up and it happened again. Yeah so they bought a new one or they put it up and then my friend and his little brother. They camped out to watch what would happen and then they they saw. These guys is pull up a pickup. They got out. They yanked off the board and then they sped away and it was his teammates. It was actually his teammates from his from the circle. High School basketball the team. That did that in. Of course they didn't make exclusively paint anything racist on the on the On their lawn or anything like that but you gotta wonder if there was a I mean they were like the only Asian kids on the team so so you got to wonder if there was a like a racial element to that so I I just don't think I don't think that arena was particularly welcome to us back when we were growing up not to bring it down we talk about super s matches the client here. Yeah well so so. That was the context of of hoops when you were growing up. I mean obviously doesn't particularly courage you to develop your your skills and and and and you know traffic the team yourself. How how did you go from there to doing this graphic novel literally about out your your high school? Your new high school high school you teach at and their basketball team. I so so for for a little while I began that book in two thousand fourteen and and little basketball was like staging this invasion into my life. You know I my son who is now. Sixteen when he was in fifth grade he joined his school. Basketball teams are going to these basketball games. And then Lin sanity happened of Courtney well-documented by my buddy Ryan Young And and I became you know. I think it's just like any other Asian American like we became fascinated. Asked knitted with Jeremy Lin. And I couldn't understand why like I couldn't understand the the whole world that his story had on me so a really curious about why something that I never cared about in my entire life I was actually starting to follow And then I started reading these books. All these I'm I'm in the young adult old in middle grade space and all these sports books started coming out and that actually had some sort of interaction intersection with culture so there was a book called Baldwin. Lie I by Matt Della Penna They got a lot of heat and then a book called Crossover came out which eventually won the newbery. And it's a book told him bursts about basketball so I was reading these and then I start reading slam dunk every liked that much about the books and then and then like at the beginning of the two two thousand fourteen two thousand fifteen season on that campus. Where I was teaching? Everybody was talking about basketball and specifically. They're talking about the Varsity men's team so I was at the end of this big project. I was feeling really lost about what I might do next and I started talking to the coach and I discovered this like really really really crazy story like when I told me the story I thought he was making it up. You know the story about him when he was a teenager so not was. He's actually a lot of the school when he went to that school. He was one of the few African Americans there. The school kind of had a reputation for being for the rich white kids from the the hills. Oh you know. He was on the school basketball team. as a junior he's the backup point guard and then his team actually goes to the state championship they play in the the Oakland arena. which is now the oracle arena? And he's actually on the court with seven seconds left. Their team is down by one. He gets the ball in his hands he puts it up at the BUZZER. It goes through they win by one freaking out and then that shot is actually invalidated by the refs. They say that it's offensive goaltending. Because does the center of the team has his re has his hand on the Rim as the ball is falling through. So this dude. His name Lou Ritchie. The coach He the He's telling me this when he's like forty something you know he's telling me this when he's fortysomethings. Tell me you can see the emotion pop in his eyes. Were sitting in his office. He reaches over. He grabs the DVD of that game from the eighties off of his Shell. Any hands it to me goes Yang. You take this home and you watch it and you tell me that guy's hand was on the rig took it home and watch it and it was actually really unclear. It was really really clear that just pointed to me how importance or are you know like this thing had haunted him for literally three decades 'cause I I don't think that sports is just sports right. There's like there's like it's like a it's like a really enhanced let's just distill piece of life and what happens on the court can really affect what happens in your actual life. I mean I think that you know. It's quite ironic that we're actual recording this podcast on Super Bowl Sunday when obviously yeah in fact truly immersing sports. We'd probably have more to do. You feel I mean I believe you watched the super bowl right barely know I caught the end of it honestly. It was super bowl Sunday night thing to do today during superbowl Sunday. GO TO COSTCO and go to the crowds. And that's why I didn't make it a costco but I didn't make didn't fog a smart move. That's awesome. What was the lake? What was it like there? He was super easy to get a table. Talk in awesome. I mean so on the one hand obviously sports are larger than life and and for. There's only been sports moments for for each of us. You know which which play that role when I think is fascinating about this story is that it's not just sports relodge. It's like it's playing sports but it's also specifically high school sports right and it's always to me been amazing and when when the sort of the most magical moments in a lot of adult people's lives actually stems back to competition that takes place at the high school level right. And what what. I think your book does so well is it shows just how intense and deep and and complicated and rich. This tradition of high school basketball truly is which you know. UNBEKNOWNST I guess too certainly us and maybe even to you your schools actually kind of been in center of Right. I mean 'cause You you teach at Bishop o'dowd right at Catholic school private. Yeah Yeah Oh you did right before the events of this book and Yeah and in the context of that you know you you were. You weren't really aware. I guess that that the school was kind of a basketball superpower. Our Yeah I was. I was barely aware think I knew we had a great basketball team. But I didn't know the depth of the history. Can I ask that. We're either Bugai's athletes when you were in high school where I was a I was at the Inner Geek. Okay I would. I was a geek of just about everything except for in theater I did. I was on the fencing team at my at my school. Oh that's cool. It was cool cool very competitive. I think it was. It was an easy evolution from dungeons and dragons defensing I guess and I it wasn't like a jock part of a team. Yeah I mean it's still it's individual you know you're part of a team competing and visually visually. So it's it is a little different from like a big sports. Gene Grew up in kind of the same area and so I don't know if you noticed this but there are are so we grew up in an era where there are a lot of Asians but And then the Asians who were jocks they kinda gravitate towards certain sports usually not basketball but like we had a very robust like badminton team in Tennessee. Well I don't know I'm not I was like they were good. They were like fierce. You know what I mean and so I like like no disrespect to those sports but I you know I. I don't know if I don't know if that was the same for you witnessed. It was absolutely the same at our at our high school. Yeah I mean that. Was the era. Like Michael Chang Right. I remember yeah. My friends had these Michael Chang posters up and And there was all. They're always these whispers. If you WANNA get anywhere on sports go out with with racket but Yeah I don't know what it is. I don't know what that was about. I think it has to do with I mean it's an accessible sport for for Asians because there is like kind of a big immigrant tradition of like racquet Sports Ping Pong table. I didn't is still gigantic badminton as well. You know throughout Asia. But but yeah Michael. Chang Valley was the one who put tennis on the map for Asian Americans for sure Yeah Yeah I think what you were you ever encouraged yourself to too or was it was a purely was purely because of the bullying of Bryan Young. You are not today professional dragging no no like I said he was like he he really really trying to be encouraging but he realized he realized what he was doing with everybody after a while I had like anti talent. It wasn't even that they didn't have talent. I had anti talent. I you know I I mean I did. I did like soccer as a little kid when I was really little and I I don't know my I think my parents just new. They saw me on. The they they saw issue is and they realized this. This is a dead end your he didn't really You're gives my sports after that. where else so back to the book you you get the story from From coach Lou. And you get kind of in you sort of place the history of of his personal history with the school and the Bass on all this bass ask Gal around you. What makes you you know what I got? This is my next book like I don and at one point in the story. Do you decide that. And then you thus start going on the journey I mean you you go on the journey with this team then that season right. Yeah Yeah Yeah I mean I was lucky enough to get get to travel with them so coach Lou you know he he eventually eventually he plays for Ucla any place for Clemson and Gives his hamstring injury. Ends is playing career And then he makes his way back to doubt high school. I as an assistant coach for his old coach and then as head coach as the school's first African American the head coach for the Varsity men's basketball team so as an assistant coach and a head coach. He leads five teens to the California Championship. So he has these five different chances Cisse's to redeem this old childhood hurt and he they lose all five times you know so the reason I follow them for the two two thousand fourteen. Two Thousand fifteen season is because they had these two players on their team One guy's name is Ivan. Rab was now New York. Another guy's name is Parasol Austin was now playing for CAL and they're like basketball films so because he has two kids on team two thousand fourteen into that fifteen with supposedly his best chance and finally redeeming. This old childhood hurt right so I wanted to see if he could do it He was super friendly only about it. I think he's told me over and over again. That one of the things that he really cares most about is making people feel welcome and he feels like it's kind of rooted in his childhood. He grew up going to public schools. All the way up until high school his MOM forces to go to this like back then it was seen as like the snobby Babi Ethics squall really pissed off about it but he goes and eventually he like makes his way through school. He really finds a family in the community there. He falls in love but he did struggle with feeling welcome at least in the beginning so so he sees that as is his mission and he did that with me too. You know. Even though we didn't the common I think he invited me to follow his team. We traveled together like I. I got to fly to these different basketball tournaments together and he it always made me feel welcome. He always was willing to ask all my answer. All my dumb Basketball questions you know. So he's he's a really great guy and I. I think that was really that was really began with him but as I followed this this team I I began to see the appeal. All of basketball. I started to get why people fell in love with you know like did like you. I know you guys watch basketball because you watch. Did you watch basketball before AFFORD INSANITY I mean I. I'm from New York right so we we have a real kind of love hate relationship with with our basketball teams. They're there for for some of the classic Nick teams and you know like that. There was an era in which I was. I was a knicks fan but I I can't say that I was. I've never been a die hard. I've I've never. I've never followed the sport in part. Because because the teams were so hard to watch it's a heartbreaker. Yeah I think okay. I'm going to be honest like I think my my interest in basketball on at its current stage is largely buoyed by Jeremy Lin satiety. I mean that really brought me and I feel like I like like you and I could tell by the process of reading this book but making this book probably But like you. Jeremy Lin is what kind of learned a lot from watching wins ended at you know what I mean like the the the Jeremy Lin run like just got me into basketball and I had to add to learn a lot during that time but I and I grew up I grew like the the warriors are like one of the best teams around the area. I live in Los Angeles where there's a lot of history around these teams I honestly and I and I went to school in Chicago during the Jordan years. So Oh man so so I have. It's always been in the back on it never latched onto me though you know so. It took something likely Saturday to really make me go like okay like let me like I I could get into this. You know what I mean. And then all of a sudden I was watching mid one to you know to the end like you know these basketball small games which I think before entity I'd never watched the game from beginning to end before ever you know you're far from alone and and in fact it wasn't just you know people our age right. It was. It was little kids all the way up to like grandparents like my parents watching Jeremy Lin Games and and they knew nothing basketball But you know they were. They were like You know he shouldn't have. That was a bad shot sure taking that tripled again again. Pass it off their learning about this. The sport To actually be complaining about it and some ways and it was kind of an amazing thing to see but I I think it speaks something really fascinating about what you said around the nature of sport. It's not just that sports is it is a journey and a story and experience that has like sort of this depth and richness that changes lives and all that stuff. It's it's also wrapped up in some bigger ideas right like masculinity in like patriotism and You know belonging to the fabric doc of Americana Right In some ways the fact that there weren't team sports icons for me to root for when I was growing up on in really any major professional sport. Yes there was Michael Chang and figure skaters and gymnasts but on the big sports that define find the American experience. There were people I can point to and say that that guy looks like me. That guy is my sort of Avatar. You know on on field and do that obviously shapes how I've thought about myself but also how the people thought about me as Asian American guy especially. Yeah Yeah I think that's true. I mean I think it matters to be on a team sports specifically like Michael. Chang A.. Lot of figure skaters. They were individual performers And and I think Maybe maybe there's always been not always definitely not always but at least when we were growing up there was a perception that Asian Americans could get somewhere if it were just about an individual achievement. But I I do wonder if there was this idea of weather are there. Not An Asian American could actually perform with within an American team. You know what I mean like whether or not we could be part of an American team in and maybe that's sweat was about was we were we were in this arena where we were. Actually we actually made this election whereas he actually is way better. I felt like we write. It felt like he carried us here at us all right in a way that in a way that y'all Ming did not in not in you know in in in a small way but like now really I mean though and you touch upon that I mean so the book. The book is very interesting in that you. This is very much. You don't have to know anything about basketball honestly to get into this book and you can tell it's gene. You are acting for all of us. That's because there's parts where you literally talk about the invention of basketball in the book you go through all these sort of interesting moments of when it reflects what advice back back to the story to the the thing that you are talking the events that you depicting. It's it's quite interesting. Actually how you tied all back to sort of basketballs larger her evolution in America. It's and then what all the way down to what it means for this group of the squad of men right I think What was your process? Because I'm curious like these events like one you're you're chronicling calling the events of the season game by game literally of but then also you've got these the squatter players who accept these back stories and then you've got the separate story of of you you trying to get into the actual game of basketball into this team and then try to write this book. You're literally in the book. Try to write this book which I find it very a very interesting What was your decision to go into all these to shape it this way? Originally when I proposed proposed the book I propose a something about two hundred pages. Two hundred and fifty pages ended up being four hundred twenty in planning on just focusing on the team itself. I wasn't planning on being in the book at all. You know So I was going to talk about the players. The coaches and I was GonNa talk about the Games and that was it but but then I felt like as falling this team I was realizing all the gaps in my own knowledge. I was feeling really inadequate as a storyteller you know so Had more in common with some of the players than others but like for for the two stars Paris in Ivan. I felt like their Their background was so different from mine. I felt very as the the you know the the war I thought about this book book the more inadequate I felt and it eventually It was through some conversations with my editor. We thought maybe maybe the best way to address these inadequacies is to actually put myself into the narrative. Could be real amount of you know. Talk about the the gaps in my knowledge and all all that stuff And then the history stuff Coach Lou is a history major. That's what he he got his degree and in college and he always talks about he says. Is this like a pep talks and you know after practices and before games he says if you want to build a future you have to know your past so I I really took that to heart and I thought man this is about basketball. I really don't know anything about basketball history so I should just read a couple bucks. But the founding of the game did and what I found was like crazy Z.. Fascinating to me. You know one of the things that I think I appreciate most about basketball. Is that especially in the beginning. It was really this game for outsiders was game for for communities that could not afford to maintain a field. If you couldn't afford to maintain field to play baseball on or to play bond you would gravitate towards basketball so as I. You know these these communities of color be like these immigrant communities and it early on that the sport really struggled for recognition and respect respect and there was just something you know we all love an underdog if the entire sport was an underdog and then I started seeing these connections to what I was reading in basketball history with what was actually happening on the court and and at some point I just felt like I had a stick. All that stuff in you. You know it felt like what was happening in the past was actually had some bearing on these games that these kids were playing. I think it's fascinating his name because in that back narrative you really do del pretty deeply into some of the dimensions of sport that our social right About gender about race ace and yeah about class to you. Know the context that as you pointed out this is a game where some of the best players in the world grew up playing on concrete courts. That's right you know Where where you know? They barely had They didn't have anything to play with right. They've had rims with no no. Oh Nets and stuff I think what is interesting. Is that as you actually bring it to the present day of this team it actually goes beyond and the American context and then stretches out into the sort of global context too because as it turns out to the players on the squad squad. You know this dragon. Squatter documenting are actually Asian right. I mean Asian Embryo asian-american right and that's right. I don't know if that was something that you you knew before or that you sort of stumbled into that because a story that from the title I mean I kind of expected to have an Asian dimension and then well it's reading it's like Oh yeah this is not actually about Asian or Asian record stuff at all. It's like about basketball. Wait a second to these guys. It sort love it was it was accidental. Or did you know. was there something. About the fact that there were these two players One of was a starter. Right and who's Punjabi was that part of what actually drita telling the story was that incidental I think what solidified the the story my mind from me. What made me decide I gotta do? This is coach Lou story but But those players you know a a I I found their stories to be absolutely fascinating. So what am Jeevan still in touch with. I just saw him. Maybe two months ago is really. We're to see somebody who you knew as a teenager as an adult you know. He's got like full now. It's weird to see that. And he's like he's about to go to MED. School is like a straight up adult. Now pull out a bill but But you know he's he he seek he was almost always the only seat kid kid on the court and in who tell me these things about the stuff that he would face right A. Like I interviewed all a bunch of players at the beginning of the season. You tell me all the stuff that would have to face in. The court is hard here but then as I was actually following him during the season I actually heard that stuff I would be sitting in the stands and like Missouri or in in Alhambra California. And just hear people adults yelling at this eighteen year. Old Kid on the court yelling ridiculous stuff So Oh and then and then I was reading about race in basketball history and especially early on even now of course but especially in early on Basketball was a sport. That was highly. Racial is actually leaned into that. Were teens would be organized organized by race and they would use the races almost like a calling card as as way of getting will come out to watch them. You know So it just it just felt like like the things that I was reading about. History were kind of finding a a a slightly more subtle expression in Jean's experience on the court and I I just felt like I I really had to had to had to put that in there. There is also one of the first moments that I really you. Kinda Kinda got Jeevan as a human being was after this game that we played right after. The Ferguson decision was announced. You know most most of the team was African American right. Most of the team was African American. And we we we I didn't I didn't really know juvenile. Now well we hadn't. I hadn't interviewed him at yet at the time. And and then and then The team loses really badly this to this game right after the Ferguson decision is announced and then he just like sitting out in in the dark on this cafeteria. Table like crying like weeping And he's the only one that was so deeply emotionally affected right and I wonder why I wonder why. Why why out of all the players he would be the one that would be the most deeply emotionally affected? And then as I got to know. My realize wise is because Ferguson. It is absolutely about an African American but it also has the symbolic value for people who feel like outsiders and I think I think Jeevan felt bad. I think Jeevan has always felt like an outsider. Every time he steps on the court he feels like an outsider So So I think he took it extra extra hard to lose this game that we really should have won after this really important decision was announced. I think it's it just affected me deeply you know but it was It was it was crazy season. It was a really intensive that I did not knows going to go like that when I started falling them. I don't I WANNA actually Spoil the ending. Because I feel like it's an important thing for people to to follow the journey and then get to the answer as to what happens during this magical season but I mean you picked a good season to follow all the all the beats our it. It's a crazy season. I mean. Obviously you had some some hint that because you there were these two spectacular players. That's something hopefully interesting would happen. But I mean you couldn't have picked a better just overall arc in finishing nation. I mean you know everything about what you ended up documenting turn out to be kind of exceptional right. It was. It was the other Asian Asian player that you mentioned is is Alex how he was an extension from China and he also had this really crazy story and and threw him actually learned about the the sports system China specifically the basketball system in China which very very different from what we do right like I think the way the Chinese approach basketball mixes says so that it would be very difficult for like a Chris. Paul to emerge They there's a lot of. There's a lot of trying to predict how kids are GonNa grow up you know and how talented they're going to be when they're adults with very very young and I think Alex amount of ways. He came the America because he's kind of rebelling against that so for him to be there like there there hasn't been another a foreign exchange student. Didn't on that team since then so for him to be there was just such A. I don't know if I like such a fine. It was a real gift to have him there. Can I ask one kind of weird question. How did a Catholic school ended up? Having a team called the dragon's it's a okay. So first of all. It's IT'S A it's a pretty. I mean it's a Catholic school in Oakland California it is a pretty liberal It's a pretty liberal school. We and we promise me project you play. Yeah Yeah and and and That that crazy church came out and And protested US like surrounded. Our School Dow West. That's right like the the you know. When that happened the the priests sexually went on the intercom engage? Students Instructions on how to ignore them. You know the so. It's a it's a pretty. It's a pretty liberal community And I think it's because it's an Oakland it's always had this This value value for diversity so so so If you look at the founding documents of the school was founded in the nineteen fifties I think they actually specifically chose dragons because dragons are a symbol for a of wisdom in Asian cultures. So it's a it's not just not yes not like. It's not like Saint George's dragon the dragon that they named them after. Although that's the one that's often depicted in in in the in the. Is that the Western dragon right. That's not what they didn't choose that mascot for the restroom virgin so it's a it's a weird community. It's just a really weird like I feel like you know. Do you know ten fam- you know who that is. Of course yeah so he. He's a school. He teaches there to show up in the book. I was like. Oh Yeah. That's straight shout out to Greg Greg. That's right that's right that's right. He's he's there to. He's still there at o'dowd yeah I mean it's a lot of ways I miss it. I'm really missed community so we have a whole other book to talk about but but we both books are so great. I mean one thing I wanted maybe close with is that You know this book is a work of I. Guess it's technically basically we're GONNA nonfiction you're chronically actual events I have to give you props for the meticulous notes that you like like panel specific notes. What's that you include at the end of the book Better like clarifying like okay. This conversation was actually not here. It happened before all things like that. Were or you like. The the the Pizza Parlour ridiculous panel actually is modeled after another one. That have instant Sunnyvale not SACRIMENTO. Who gives a WHO cares like this? It's very I mean. I really appreciate your sort of wanting to to to to make clear that you know. Here's the truth because this is how it happened except with these exceptions. It's very admirable gene. Well thanks thanks mostly low self esteem Michael so inadequate like I just felt like as a cartoonist. Like if I like those a layer of lying that was automatically doing because I was drawing these cartoons. That's right and maybe it's a weird thing to think because there's obviously a layer of of line that comes with editing when you're doing a documentary but for whatever reason season by photos and videos felt truthful than our tunes So I I felt like I really had to get a lot of that stuff in the end notes just to kind of convince you that was real. You know a pretty good segue then to the other book That we wanted to talk about of yours and that is the collected. Mini series of Superman smashed the clan. Because well that wasn't quite a work of documentary. This is also book within notes and with quite a lot of documentary connection. Because both so so this. This book is a Superman Story. It was inspired as we understand by an actual episode or story arc within the old superman radio. Sh the series correct. That's right about Superman fighting the Ku Klux Klan. And Yeah you have taken that story and then really kind of transformed a lot of ways but still rooted in that original In that original work work notably that the central family let Superman ends up. Sort of saving is a Chinese. American family is an Asian American family and we and that was actually true in the radio. Too right yeah no weird. It was like six. Yeah I thought it was so weird when they found that out I like I had to go find it was real and it is you. Can you can actually find Not just that. That story line of the old Superman radio show we can find a bunch of them on Youtube you know. I don't know where they get them. I don't know where these youtubers get up. But they'll get them in the promo new to utilise the whole thing for beginning and it is the Chinese American family family that moves into metropolis in nineteen forty six so crazy. It's worth noting that that is only three years after the Chinese unease exclusion act actually expired like nineteen forty-three was over. Six decades of of basically racist exclusion of Chinese. People will when that act was. Finally you know remit it was finally was finally legally suspended and already there. Was this story. You know taking the you know sort of the greatest American Superhero and and putting him in the context of saving this Chinese family. It's amazing how. How did you actually come across the story and what what then led you to want to actually tell it in this fashion? I I read about freakonomics. They give An entire chapter to this story line and I think they use it to make this point that sometimes are stories even stories about dudes dress up in tights and capes actually have real world effect Because supposedly after the storyline aired of Superman fighting riding the Ku Klux Klan. On this children's radio show in nineteen forty six. The membership of the Klan dropped after being portrayed as he's like really bumbling bigots on a children's radio show a nobody could really take them seriously. Open you want to join us so from that Moment I I think if facet for me for multiple reasons number one. There's Chinese family in the center of the action and then To is you you know as a Superhero Fan who was kind of criticized for liking superhero comics by Asian parents. When I was a kid? it kind of made the point that sometimes these stories even though they look a little silly on the surface actually have real world consequences so when the opportunity came to do it as a book I really wanted to is this is is this something you pitch to DC. Or did they come to you with this. You know two members the KKK. Or what. What was it? Yeah Yeah they have you seen any of the other books from DC's young readers. Line yeah I have The shadow of the bad girl and okay lantern in legacy. Yeah okay awesome awesome. Yeah I mean they're really cool so so DC. I actually read this article. I don't know if you've seen it. But there's an article comparing marvel and DC. See and they they talked about how DC is at its best. When they let creators kind of they have these iconic characters editors and then if they let craters kind of run with these Econo- characters that's usually when you get the best? DC stories or moral functions a little bit differently for marvel everything everything their best stories come out of actually is in universe stories where everything's kind of tightly woven together you know I think it's Kinda true so with both of the books that you mentioned in the shadow of the background and legacy. I think those are examples of that. You know the DC kind of let critters run run with it I I'd actually say. Even the original radio show was a little bit like that like DC kind of gave the writers room of that radio. Show a chance to do what they wanted. and at the time having Superman fight the clan was actually a real risk because in some communities a clan was still seen as like this community organization. You know so I I. I definitely like it was something I wanted to do. I had a meeting with a reach. Lavigne's WHO's one of the editors DC comics and I proposed it and I'm lucky. Lucky that she said yes. I mean for a young readers Book especially I'm sure it was pretty hot button right. Click to be talking about these issue so explicitly anchoring them in kind of a very unlovely unlovely part of American history and present right did they was there any pushback whatsoever. I mean was there. was there a sense like hey. Maybe this isn't something you really want to be talking about with. You know this age range or were they just fire away. They were super supportive. From the beginning it was really shocking. Actually put in Superman smashes the clan as a tie like a placeholder title. I thought for Circassian a change that and they totally did it. WHO's just ran with it all the way through and even the artist you know they ask me who are the artists that you might WanNa work work with and I said Dude Guru? I did a bunch of Avatar comics with them. They are at the top of my list and they just they went after him. I I don't know I I was. I was kinda shocked that kind of said Yes to everything I proposed either. I told him I want to do something like text piece in the back. Like all right. Let's do it was so crazy crazy. Well I think it's part of what makes the book in the series so a special not least because so you know kind of like a for a little bit of a younger age range. But it's one of the more I think. Nuanced and a complex interwoven stories but Asian Americans in the context of race. You know like a period story about race that I've actually actually had the opportunity to read. And you manage actually take superman and superman. Its own identity as an undocumented alien literal alien in this case right and dealing with the context of sort of identity you know the mixed identity that comes from being in two places from two places at once Expectations of parents and experts of sell the push and pull of assimilation. You made Superman Superman more Asian American than. He's ever been those argument. The argument that I stole from you and Yeah that's right Superman is actually Asian record. He's got black hair right he's he's one of US US compelling argument. Yeah that's a strongest argument of all. I Care I mean you know. It is a compelling argument but I think until you actually see the story play out as you drew it here. The parallels aren't quite as as sharp But I think the way the U I think especially showed him basically used that context. Explain something that was always a little bit canonical early. You you know continuity wise or could non Canon wise a little problematic that Golden Age Superman could only leap. You know leap. The tall buildings and single couldn't fly right But now he's basically invulnerable and on omnipotent right and then the way to explain it kind of is contextualised around this notion of assimilation. which I thought was amazing? Fix I do think it was all right there. It's all there so like superman power set being being reduced in the beginning and it Kinda kinda coming in and then him Feeling ashamed about being different like they kind of touch. On that in Smallville they touch on that a bunch of different superman comics. All the pieces were there and as working on on the block it just kind of Popped like one one of the things I I did research on the radio. Show one of the things that fascinate me. Jiong about the radio shows because they developed it so quickly because I think it was aired three times a week right as opposed to the comic which only came out once a month so the radio. This show actually needed way more content. That comic did and as a result all the stuff got developed for the radio show like Jimmy Olsen got his name in the radio show the daily planet shows up for the first time. Radio Show Perry white shows the time the radio show seem with Kryptonite and according to some superman historians at least he flies for the first time in the radio show so I just Kinda felt like it was all kind of bear all those pieces. Were there just to be put together. I think you know these are things that you've explored before the Superhero as immigrant as Asian. American I mean very explicitly in In the green reached the shadow hero. Sorry I wanted to call it the green turtle but you know to see it to see these qualities imbued on our most sti- conic hero are most sort of the most name brand recognizable hero as I say kind of subversive but also like like totally awesome an totally totally gene Yang in And I and I feel like And then to see this this play out in a battle against white supremacy native. ISM Like just In these times right now it's like this is the book we need right now and like I I know it takes place in the forties but I I look at this I was like I. This is this is like the perfect book for like Mike Twenty Twenty sensibility mood right now. You know yeah it's it's a weird time to be in the country To be an American I just think Especially after I looked into the nineteen forties. I I just think there's A. There's a certain astrologer that we have about the forties fifties. It's like a post World War Two right we like when we I think Not necessarily us as individuals but the collective nationally nationally we think of that as the quote unquote golden era of of America. You know There's there's there's a temptation I think within American media to to portray like that but then if you actually look at what the forties and fifties were like. I think the the reason why I felt better than than where we are now is because they were full of hope they were they were. They were hopeful that when it got to us. We wouldn't be struggling with the same problems that they were you know. Oh so it's almost like we are in our present like effing up. What made them better the one thing that made better? They were hopeful that we would be better. That's what you know and we're just Kinda we asked that up. We fed up. So it's just a it's Weird Cape boomer them yes that's right I I mean I I might also add. Add that there's a sense in which anytime you look back It really depends who you are when you're embracing nostalgia right as as HBO's very brilliant watchman another Disruption another another verse disruptions of Superhero Mythology Thalji shares with us. It's like yeah you know forties fifties or Kinda great if you were Perry white accident on the white you know but not so great if you were other people no and I think this book actually does just a again really surprisingly Nuanced and and at the same time sharp sharp job of telling that story in a way that I don't even know that you know nominally. More Mature Audience Comics Have have successfully done so Kudos to you. Think Hicks I. I feel like I've been working on superman stuff for a few years. Now in I feel super grateful to DC that they let me do. It was a ton of fun to do all right well. That's a good time for us to take a break now But when we return we will return with our signature segment. The good the bad and the W so Stick around let's break Hi this is TASR in. This is Ara and we are the good Muslim bad Muslim podcasts. It is a show about being to Muslim women. In America we talk about pop culture. The pork lobby periods talk about Islamophobia Patriarchy and smashing white supremacy. It's a range download. The good Muslim bad Muslim podcast. Wherever you get your podcast castle for a good Muslim bad Muslim dot com and we're back all right on the second half they call spruce we're going to do our signature segment the good the bad that the WPF Jifang? Would you please lay down the rules of engagement I shall so this is our roundtable segment of the show In which we actually take a single topic and address at three different ways The first way is to look at the thing that's warms our hearts the cockles of our hearts makes us happy the about that thing the good about that thing. Then we look at the bad the negative the unruly and harsh of that thing finally The thing that leaves us asking questions the word about that thing in the W. t. f.. And you know what what actually in the break we're talking about is that superman smashes the clan although it is about ultimately these sort of larger issues of race identity culture and racism and exclusion in this period. Setting also has kind of a big stream of sports in it in the sense that the thing that actually it kind of brings together key people key characters In the script is like Little League Baseball is is. Is You know again. Another team sport that stands in for America and we thought that it might be kind of cool for us to talk more explicitly about either own personal experiences or sports history anything that for us really represents the good the Benedetti F of sports and we always begin with our guests when we have a guest by putting them in the hot seat so Gene can you tell us about you. Know the thing that you it makes you feel good when you think about sports and again it could be personal it could be something Abstract attract it could be something historical in. What is it that actually to? You represents the good of sports. Well you know when when we scheduled this interview I did not realize that it. It was going to be a super bowl Sunday because that is how not a sports guy but I I actually did like just just earlier today. I went over to a friend's house or families with with young kids. There we all Kinda hung out some of US really cared about game. Some of us like me not so much but it really did offer a chance to get together and I think that's the the power sports even for people who don't necessarily care it can be a time to to build community so that's something good I appreciate. I mean I think it's absolutely true and I think it's even more true when you when you look at some of what you talked about in Dragon hoops that that marginalized communities often found a kind of strength and unity. In sports you know like the the the Japanese American and Chinese Japanese baseball teams China's making basketball teams Of The you know the forties fifties and sixties onward it really were a key pillar of of those communities and for Japanese Americans like baseball really did sustain japanese-americans win. They were incarcerated during the war. So there's absolutely I mean. Hey I'll just say that that's my good. Sports ords can can truly play the unique role of of of giving hope right. And you know I on that note. I mean my parents are immigrants. They didn't really understand American sports But they didn't know that America was fascinated with sports team sports in particular and that participating in them was a really critical way of kind of becoming American and fashion. So even when they they. My parents wouldn't let me play sports. They didn't want me to harm my brain based pink and it also knowing that I was completely capable playing affectively But they did make shorter. Take me to baseball games and Yankee Games especially right New Yorker And that is the one sport that I continue to follow in love and the one thing that as a child I always kind of remembered even today with just incredible honest Algebra like vivid nostalgia because it was the it was one of the few things that the whole family went out and did purposely as this sort of experiential immersion into a kind of American that are mostly immigrant community. You know often shoot in other ways like we. It didn't really have Halloween and other things until much later in my childhood but the Yankees were a thing that we did when from when I was three years old and on and Phil since I jumped on little opposite approach to this I I grew up of not being particularly great athlete athlete. I did some physical activities new sports and most like directive competition anyway. I'm not been great at a depth debt but the problem is that you know growing up. You're like that is so tied to your sense of masculinity you know what I mean like kids. Don't know a lot about but like they know like if you could run fast ball hardest like that is a measure of some of some worth right. I guess not so much your ability to talk about movies or like you know how to write comic books and things like that right. I mean or using your brain I do find that But I am now drawing owing more comfortable and feeling more like could about the fact that like we brought into emasculated. Does that require us to or very much. You know much in the vein of your book gene were. There's a guy at the center of could say like I don't know basketball actually and you can take a break to say like I'm listening to the coach talk and I don't understand. I understand these individual wards. I don't sit struggle words. He's saying and that's like taking like it's okay to be this guy within the story stories well and I appreciate that appreciate the fact that like I dunno like honestly I watch the super bowl I understand about seventy five percent of the game name. There's a whole twenty five percent were like why are they doing this. I don't understand like you know and that's and I'm okay with that of okay with being part of that So I like sports as a as kind of a that we like as I've grown older and we collectively are able to say like not everything in something we can use okay to be a person who is not totally visit naturally understanding enough to go to either either. So that's a weird. Take on the good of sports play. So the good a sports to you is that you're no longer being mocked for being. Yeah it's not the measure of a man. I totally feel you. Why don't you come back around and talk about the battle sports close to your? Yeah the one thing. The one sport sport activity I did when I was growing up was on dope that is closely tied to my cultural heritage as well. Well right I did four good number of years actually and made my way up the the belt ranking and I thought it was pretty good actually by the time I Tenth grade is when I kind of tapered out stopped doing it because like the theater actually But I feel bad had that I never Continued with it one thing and then also that you know like that was the one thing is actually thing that came from Korea that I that I am Korean and that was something I did that was created at the time it was like I think I'm better than actually speaking Korean. I don't know like And I feel bad that I that I you know. Fill out a practice with it and the other thing is like I'm not a huge martial arts fan like in like movie wise but I can't watch things like MMA just like it's just not into it so take what was my one in terms of martial arts like The thing I like Kinda likes doing and was good at and You know but I feel bad no doubt in my life I feel a little bad too. Yeah you know absolutely right. It's like there's something wistful about not because in every sport that you do even if you are professional Athlete you have to eventually stop doing. There's no sports can do forever. And it's Kinda sad when that part of the chapter ends right so people are surprised to learn that like you know. I made it to black belt in Quito. Simple in the. It's always my one of my two truths and a lie thing. You gotTA play that game. I always doubt give away my secret. Actually so if you play this with me always like like should wear it around Phil. What are the round and somewhere you've heard bill? So what does your badging. Well I mean since we're talking about basketball and since we're in the week that we're now I think Does bear mentioning like Kobe Kobe. Bryant's passing asking away. Does government in and tell you. I was I got a text from a friend of mine In in this is the this is the Fran Dan from college. That knew the most about basketball so when I was actually following the dragons. I invited this friend with me to watch some of the Games just so he could explain to me what what's going on in the court so he texted me and I was I think Like I win at at the height of his his career at the height of Kobe. Bryant's career I was not a basketball fan but it wasn't just that I knew his name. I knew his personality. You know what I mean like. I'd never seen a plan to court or barely. Maybe I saw some highlights during the news but I knew what has personality was like. I knew that he was tenacious. I knew that he was like super driven. I even use some like the like the I dunno comebacks he would he would give I think it just goes to show how how wide of an impact sports can have where these personalities almost become like superheroes almost like in the same way that like a comic book Fan can say. Oh that would be out of character for Batman to do. That is definitely in character for Batman to like. We know Kobe Bryant to that extent right we know no what is out in character for him I it just I I think the fact that he passed away so suddenly and so young a relief it makes us feel that we we understand just in one figure we understand kind of the the impact that sports has culture. I mean it must be especially hard. You know Both guys as fathers of daughters right like hey yeah. That sports was a generational connection between himself and John his daughter and then both passed away. You know at the same time is just like yeah. Yeah it was a horse show. It really was. It was like a horror show I would say my bad is sort of the the flip side of of that the underbelly of that right. which is you know sports like everything else like like entertainment? In general puts situation. We feel like we know people who don't it sort of makes people larger than life role models makes them aspirational to US makes them more real than real and that like actually allows a lot of stuff to happen. That shouldn't happen right. We kind kind of sign off on or ignore you know aspects of our heroes that are definitely the darker side cove included running. You know I think in a broader sense. You know like you alluded to this. Fill the culture of toxic masculinity culture of of abuse the culture sure of You know the like even kind of Aggressive like agro nationalism. You know and jingoism that kind of is associated with sports. You know the play of the National Anthem Colin Kaepernick choosing to actually use that as a moan of very legitimate protest. And then basically being pilloried. There's so many ways in which sports is a vehicle cool a vehicle for good but as result can also be a huge vehicle for like evil. You know and I feel like Again you know in in in Dragon. hoops you touch on some of that. Like the ways in which racism can be exacerbated exacerbated by or amplified by sports the way that's The sort of social ills. We have find the sports and then kind of become uh-huh commodified and just a part of our our diet. That's definitely like that's that's that's a big Baffoni from knee. Agreed Door's swinging. Sorry about that All right so let's go and hit the last round I just go back in and Do the WEF fill. And then we'll let you sign off on us. Jean I think for me. The the biggest deputy F- has always been I Dunno I guess for me. It's always been about The the expectations Around sports as a rite of passage right and in the way that sports has become such a big big means of attaching value to people not professional players in this case. But just like all of us right. I know I'm not the only one in this room or on this call who has experienced the the dreaded choosing up sides moment. Where you you see people being take off the draft board left and right and realizing that it's like you like two girls and like somebody? Some kid who just moved to the nobody knows who the last ones to be picked and you are going to be the last one out of that for you. Know that that to me is the the the it's a bad it's more like a deputy F- in the sense that even when even when like friendship or even when other things you know would seem seem to be when they're no stakes right. People still need to kind of sharpen the competitive edge to a point where breaking hearts or or being cruel or you know just being dicks in general is just baked into the process of sports. I Dunno no no. It's even to this day. It's like for me this trauma in their voice to pay the envoys. I'll pull the DVD right now. Anyway all right Phil what was your okay just this when gene was talking about Kobe Bryant. But I'm going to so my my. WF thought advanced this this to me. Kobe Bryant greatest moment to meet to personally to me is the role. He played when the Lakers played the knicks. During Lin sanity mood had to be Kobe Bryant. And all that. He was in that moment and the remarks before the game was down. I've never heard this guy. He had to be that represent. Who was four Jamie Lynn for that story? Then moment in Gerry mullins story to really come alive and come to fruition and I mean that game at Madison Square Garden. That next game was I mean that was. That's the height. Is You know the perfect moment of sanity so Kobe Bryant had to be who he was it just do what he do he has to. He had to represent that for German rise up and he had to be the villain that not the villain but like that. You know that the figure in this story so I appreciate them for. That's really anything from obviously the all the great things he did in his career but like in that moment for me that was his greatest moment because he allowed he played his part in it. Let's end Teddy's very special. All y'all know that was my hells. That was my moment right so I if you watch the documentary let's Hannity and you listen to the The Post game press conferences. Jeremy here Jeff. Yang's voice in. What did you ask and I actually asked German after the game We're basically basically Germany had played like out of his mind and just dropped buckets on Kobe Whether or not he thought that that Kobe Bryant knew who he was is now and it ended up getting yet it ended up getting into the documentary Because it was like it seemingly it was really kind of ballsy question Russian but I I didn't realize it was like everybody in the room kind of gasped but it's only because I'm not a sports like Wall Street Journal so I was covering this from the Asian American culture angle but it was this big moment where Jeremy Opportunity to basically be that baller type and and say I damn well hope something instead he was really cool but then like literally in the documentaries. Like you know what I really really good. Yeah Yeah but yes totally totally. That was an amazing moment gene. Let's take it home so So I feel Yeah Jeff about not getting picked because Brian Yang never picked me but my my my wpf moment is about. It's Jeremy to So his current team the Beijing ducks. You ever think about that name like how. How did they even even come up with that? 'cause that's actually a actually a dish right and in this book that I read about the ball. They talk about any team that plays the Beijing ducks. They're chant is what are we gonNA have for dinner tonight. Beijing Duck. So why would you name your team. It's so weird you like getting your opponents fodder you know from the get go. That's my that's that's that's a pretty big. W why are they call that dislike. I guess maybe there's some sort of like sponsor. Yeah Baby Beijing decades Well you know all all set done You know both of these books are fantastic. Nick dragging hoops. It will be available from first second in March on March fourteenth. Is that right right. March seventeenth seventeenth. Yes okay so not quite in time for my birthday but around the is so look for bookstores. Everywhere and then superman smashes the clan the collected ition issued threes coming up stress month yes in February and then the the collection will come out in uh-huh yes right on May Twelfth may twelve fried for my birthday there we go so nice presence all right gene thank thank you so much for every time every time. It's superfund thank you so much. Thank you thank you jeff. It's always awesome. The books are amazing gene. How can people find you online? Just my name DOT COM gene luen Yang Dot com great Japan how about yourself. I'm original spin on twitter mostly but yeah pretty much everywhere else as well and Fill yourself you can find the anger Asia man in an angry Asia dot com. You can find. They call Bruce at they. Call US Bruce. On most places you find social interaction and gossip. Fight US on Apple podcast. Please please give us a rating or you would really appreciate. She hit that. Does it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening until next side you've been listening to. They call US Bruce. With Jeff Yang. infill you our theme. Music is by Kiro One. Our producer is Nick Song. They call us. Bruce is a member of the potluck. podcast collective between unique voices and stories from the Asian American community. Find out more at cod cast. Ask POTLUCK DOT COM and thanks for listening and.

basketball America gene Yang Michael Chang Oakland Jeremy Lin DC Hudson US Ku Klux Klan Brian Yang Brian Coach Lou Obama Chinese school New York Catholic school Jeff Yang jean-louis Yang
Episode 86: They Call Us Jean Yoon & Andrea Bang

They Call Us Bruce

1:12:21 hr | 9 months ago

Episode 86: They Call Us Jean Yoon & Andrea Bang

"Hello and welcome to another edition of calls Bruce unfiltered conversation about what's happening in Asia in America I'm bill and Jeff Yang and all of us are kind of recovering. Muscle did from the unforgettable Kayla last night so so were perhaps not fully our game but we are fortunate because of that to have to amazing guests in our studio and that would be our friends from the north. A Tour Festival North Andrea Bang of from Kim's convenience. You say hello person. Yeah mitigate because their heads for so you came down four UNFO- for unforgettable. Yeah it was it was kind of a last minute. Impulse Impulse As much because the weekend was free and I I normally don't have that kind of Freedom to just go I could go so yeah. Yeah and it's the you know it's the end of the year. All the big projects are done. My house is clean next weakest Christmas parties and I had this weekend and it really glad to be here. Also it's warm here and it's very cold in Toronto right now. We have have a couple more months of winter ahead of us so we went to a Korean restaurant and I was like I wanted cone. CUCKOO is a cold being suit when they said no no not in the wintertime winter time and it was like I'm sorry if you can wear sandals and bare legs you should be able to get cone cooked sue their legs. This is pretty much required uniform. Here handles those should be available year round just just for people who don't know forget it. Was this this giant Asian Prom right here. It's sort of a celebration of Asian Americans in Hollywood Asian North American. Hollywood is the case may be and we are very very lucky to have seen the show that happened last night hosted by somebody who I think. Andrew Engine Gino. We know little wealth so you also came out and great to see you. Yeah I mean we came last year and that was a lot of fun. So this year I remember both gene and I were like if you go. I'll go if you go up on your tickets. Yeah we wanted to support CMO and yeah we also wanted to go to James Bond that me. Actually we get to your goals like unforgettable gala to bomb and then they call us Bruce podcasts forcing I guess something like that. He's doing he's doing fine. I gotta ask you guys. I mean you guys are on a show that I feel like a lot of people have connected to and it's very special because it depicts you know in eastern family on TV which we're still we're still getting used to. That's still cool novel. Awesome thing but this this past year this past two years has been really like there's been a sense of Big changes still lots of happening but when you guys attend an event like unforgettable where I mean there are a lot of like really great cool people in the room room who are doing amazing things and people that I'm a fan of you guys. Were I saw last night. You guys all you guys guys coexist from Toronto. It's just so exciting to see other people whose work you've admired and and you're creating original characters like I was fanned eking out on grittily a For performance on on Russian doll which I just you know it's really nuanced and and original character for for for us to see as an Asian the Asian Canadian at the Asian American character Asian d sport care and similarly many just until. WHO's a Canadian? That's right yeah I do love the good place. It's it's one of my. Yeah I I just love that. Show Smart Andrea. I feel like these type of things. I always end up talking to people who aren't in the industry at all. I don't know I just you Schuyler though. Yeah another podcast. Yeah I want him to be my best friend because every time I talk talk to him he just he would look straight ahead and not even acknowledge me and those are the people I wanna be friends with Carter for real but the fact that we're now in a space where you can have a big enough room full of you know Asian celebrities and there's kind of an interesting thing conversation on twitter recently about the Hashtag was black. Famous right The idea there are people who every African American person with no but you know people who are not after American might not right and and it was. It was kind of Larry's because people were mentioning people like Frankie Beverly Anita Baker. It's like I mean people who maybe deeper cuts in the broader world but who are very very clearly superstars for Americans and I kind of feel like we're starting to graduate beyond Asian famous. I guess that's what I'd say. Scholars still not impressed. But you don't even correct right. So what do you think about that idea. You guys are famous Bursar. I guess I mean I don't I mean I never I never really tracked act whole fame thing at either. I never really follow like a you know what I mean. So it's not something I've really thought about. Yeah Yeah but definitely there are Asians in all disciplines that are rising to the top and that are Whether they're they can be chefs they could be actors actors they could be athletes and our presence is is is is there in the mainstream culture now whereas there when I was younger. It's like we we just didn't exist. You know didn't exist at all so that's kind of cool but it can be confused about the term. Would it be Kinda like pretend like someone like Bong. Jun Ho Hoes. Like world-famous yeah but you'll be kind of become more world famous. I think after parasite now that's true and that will be but he was big in Asia before he's even bigger local the global circuit. But I think it's more like the idea that You know like back in the day you know When I was doing a magazine I always been sir? scrapings a crew were gonNA print on the cover and it was it was always like. Hey we gotta find somebody you recognize right but recognizable to us is nestled recognizable to rando person on the street. Right so you know but Sandra Oh now is pretty much recognizable to everybody so there. Yeah Yeah Yeah No. It's it's it's really. It's really exciting to you. See that finally and because those that kind of public recognition can't be clawed back and what we're talking about like fame and recognize ability and everything everything like that I mean that's very someone listening to this but like what. What are you guys talking? You're like speak but I think what it does point to is sort of like this elevation vision of like the craft and elevation of like what our communities capable of the recognize. Relief factor. Just comes from. Yeah the reach the Ridge and then the ability you to help hopefully do more you know. Yeah well it's weird for us a in that in that. I've never done a show that where I've I've I've been like I get stopped all the time on the street and the grocery store in the gym in the Change Room. That's a bit weird right like like Hi Mrs Kim. And we'll talk about it so that that it. It's it's not something that I ever prepared for or spire to and therefore I'm finding it a little more challenging I feel like I have to To to put make up on to go out and I I'm I didn't even have make up until I was in my thirties but I remember when my late thirties. He's ahead girlfriend. Take me out shopping because I didn't know how to put makeup on never bothered because up to that point I was doing. I was mostly writing and doing doing theater and stage makeup not not every day makeup like so it's it this is all new to me Having to present myself and be ready go yes. Thank you 'cause everyone's so excited and it's like MOMS at sometimes it's kids Sometimes it's families and they'll they'll get so excited I didn't and it's it's great to know that the show is getting that kind of reach. It's reared though as an actor. Yeah why remember even like I guess in terms of even visibility. 'cause I remember there was a time. Where like Korea itself wasn't on the map Where people would come up to me and be like? Oh where are you from and hear from China South or Japan And and people didn't even know WH- where Korea was or anything but with shows like I guess our show with Kins- And having people of all different backgrounds coming up to us you're like oh it's putting kind of curry on the map and showing that it's That there are. There's actually a lot of Korean people out there. A lot of them are performers kind of like a moment for career right now really. I mean like the convenience like some band called bt 's isn't like a it really is kind of a bit of a moment and I think to your point about Asian Diaspora. Br I actually think that's kind of bigger deal. It's not just about Asian American Canadian. There's something happening. Where entire hemisphere the people who originate from are connected to it are starting to feel it? You know about what's happening people are starting to understand that That there is there are common themes and experiences issues for Koreans that are raised outside of Korea and it has to do with with a notion of Motherland at but also certain cultural like certain kinds of Conflicts that will happen intergenerational different expectations And you know it could be a Korean in raised in France or Germany or in Canada or in the US or in Chile or Peru and there is still some weird commonality that people are trying to figure out There was a film at At religion By Guy Tron. Tony named Samuel Kunle called kill which was about actually a bunch of did you guys see it. No not yet. He literally just finished it because they they told him that. You know we've got this slot and he needed someone to sit on him to make him finish it But it's I if features features a whole bunch of Koreans in creates its shotton solely he sought he shouted all guerrilla style. It's actually really good. But but the some of the characters one's a German Korean got a French Korean Canadian. US All different stories is an adoptee. WHO's looking for her mom But it's one of those. I feel like that there's something common there that Really looking forward to seeing how that that that it gets explored one of the things that is at the root of this notion of a commonality within across the aspirants. Is this notion that somehow it's like you mentioned the motherland right. No matter how far away you go from a mobile on your still connected you're still it's still kind of your family and I think it's it's kind of an interesting moment. Where that notion of exploring these extended maybe even attenuated routes Is is turned to come to the fore. Even as I think we as Asian North Americans are starting to insert ourselves in anchor ourselves more the public consciousness through shows like am Kim's convenience and fresh off the boat so you're starting to see diaspora culture on screen. And you're seeing in the most kind of American slash North American of Which is the family? Come right. Yeah and the other thing I think about family in Korean culture and sort of aspirations is that you know the one of the legacies of of of career being divided into north and south but really it's three parts because there's that huge chunk of Manchuria. that was traditionally Korean and then North Korea and South Korea. And you know within in living memory because our parents right all have experienced that you have family split across three borders and I remember when I went to Korea for for the first or second time it was like nineteen eighty three or something like that. I can't remember exactly but the the family reunification nation showed you remember that. Okay so K. B S K B S started. This show called the family reunification show because they recognize there were a lot of Koreans who lost their family during during the confusion of the Korean War and and that somewhere in North Korea but there were many any family members who had lost their who had not been able to find family members who were in South Korea so they invited anyone who is looking for loss relatives to come down to that Big Week Square in front of K B S and held up signs with and they had they were each given a number and the head of science with any relevant information like the the name of the person they they were looking for when they lost them. You know. I'm the sister where it was because sometimes people had lost family when the other person was a child like as as much detail and then the camera would pan across this crowd of faces. It was it was non-stop it was all day and I was there studying Korean and and it was called family reunification show and then every now and then the host would be man and woman would come on and say I think we have a match and and then you would have. They would cut to the two people in a phone booth. They put each one in a phone booth split screen and they would be talking and it would be assorted equivalent. Look where do you where. Where did you last lose your sister and do you do I right yeah I have a mole on my shoulder and they would start? They would get to the point where they both agreed that they were that was it. They would open the doors and they would come running and they would be balling link and this was weeks of this. I was there. It was called family reunification show and that there would be you know you have these two sixty year old women rolling on the floor weeping and hugging each other and it's like you and then the a host going with pointing. How do you feel now that you finally right but this notion of lost family? It's it's a deep wound wound and at the same time there would be news reports of like you know a a man who killed himself because he's the whole show watching. The show reminded him that he his whole family family was stuck in the north. There were like it was that traumatic right and then as the summer went on the reunifications became a little more cynical in my interesting. You notice that people are looking for their family or poor and the people are getting found. Look unhappy but they're rich stuff like that going on but I do think that that's like it's a deep. It's a deep meth that that that really drives our Korean culture. And and that's why I think you know the the moon the moonies churches called the reunification church right and yeah I mean I think that frankly the the notion Gaspara is based on the the idea of reunification in some ways whether it's career China or you know Or other or the whole okay. India for instance. They recall people were Indian abroad. non-resident Indians indian-americans. Or whatever. There's notion that somehow you know if you've gone abroad you you need to be claimed. He reconnected with the mother ship. And you know it's it's fascinating because I think while there are a lot of ways of doing that like visiting the homeland forever wherever culture is increasingly center discovering more about where they came from watching stuff in consuming stuff and looking at stuff. I mean I don't have have you actually had the chance to Back to WBZ. But I'm kind of curious like when when we talk about what kind of gaspar culture and stuff like that. How does how does that? How does that play for you? I guess in what way like I mean does I guess. Part of it is like Even in the show right. You know you've got sort of generational parents are immigrants and the kids are acculturated. This was like the classic. Yeah concussive Gotcha got American. North American thing and a lot of the humor does come from this or parodies and how you see the world based on those things and and the values that are incurred ways by being immigrant versus you know born abroad wherever and how much of that I guess rings truly value in in your own experience with your family. Sorry my brain is so dedrick I mean it rings true a lot obviously having grown up with immigrant parents And it feels I know like for me majority of my friends were also children of immigrant parents because you kind of find people who have similarities with with you Because then you can you know commiserate together about the things that your parents do. More or relate to the great things that they do. I mean I feel like that's kind of the the great thing about living in this era has a I think especially for younger people. You know watching Kim's watching trump voters like all of a sudden you don't have to cover these things late in life win like go to college or go out and do that. Sort of cultural expeditionary if you will again it's like there's another bridge to find like there are other people who share your experiences or you know that you can kind of say. I went through that. Because I'm seeing it and I'm not alone I mean it's it's it's how you explain sort of the looking continuing as is the number one Canadian county on TV. I'm told that right. That's that's what we know it's like it's like that and Shits Creek the convenience but it took a minute for it to get over here for us to be able to access it here but once it hit Netflix. US it went crazy connected. Yeah there's there's that instant recognition right this may be shot in. Toronto is a Canadian family. But we were like we got it. You know yeah I feel like that You know there is that recognition. So what we've been talking about sports but like here. In North America the the border between candidate in that respect I feel like is pretty thin right. Yeah it really is. I mean I think for the Asian Canadian Asian American experiences essentially the same. I feel like that's why I keep trying to use the word. Ds Bark because. There's so much crossover I mean our best Asian actors come here ear and writers your writers. It's all crossing over all the time. We had the other half the Kim family on the show. We had Paul and see he move a previous episode. Noah's is and Nicole. Yeah they talk a little bit about how they got on the show and But I understand like you know. It's great we have both here because actually I know that you guys both both got on the show at very different points in your careers you know. I wonder if you could talk about that because a show. This is very special to come along at the time when it did. Yeah what do you mean for you guys. You know. Being sort of Asian performers in Canada and sort of the the spread of opportunities. That were there with me for a long time. Well for me. So I've been in the Asian theater scene since was starting in in the in the eighties and then and more actively from the nineties on and and then and then around two thousand just start to folk some film and TV mostly so that I could make enough money To have by the time to take care of my son so when in S- And and I've been aware of INS- and his talent for quite a long time like His parent ministers and when my grandmother was dying he She would call. She was in his parents church so she would. She would call his parents all the time too so so many times that that she was known as the lady who always says she's dying and then they would come and sing hymns right for her So I've been aware of of him for a while like my mom was like. Oh Gee no my friend. Mrs Misses a chair. She really like a music and heading in your team. You know so And he was in a a play that I I wrote and it was produced at young people's theatre in a while ago so that when he he finished his play and he was ready to produce it at the fringe. Of course I wanted to do so. We start at the fringe twenty eleven. Even and that's that's sort of a situation is is Basically all the actors volunteer their time and Then you split the box office but So twenty eleven and then the show was so successful that it got picked up by salt pepper and from there went on to be produced at a higher level. We'll standard of of production value with full rehearsal. So that all the the fine tuning could be done And and I think at that point to the story deepened and then eleven cities three hundred twenty two performances later. We're looking at it being a TV show which so it's been a long journey but at the same time in the context of just like being an artist it feels really natural. Yeah were you always the running. I would assume so there. Aren't that many Korean actors. My Age professional actress my agent Canada And and I don't think that there are very many I work in I work in all You know I am pretty versatile I do And whatever I do quite a bit of TV work like hired gun work for for whatever shows in town whether it's like a doctor or a space race captain or you know we. We were talking last night. No I couldn't remember that I'd seen you. I mean something recently but forgot what it was and I was like like I think he played a doctor in your life. You know the thing that people are are sort of pointing out that where they're catching. It is catching me. As the expanse yes season season wanted the expanse that was really fun. and the other show that and one of the other shows that I'm really proud of his Quite a while we shot it in two thousand five and it came out in two thousand seven and that was dragon boys so yeah thanks. Sure thanks to Donald so so yeah it was nice to see tot ta isn't was three three stories so there was the the family and the kid who gets drawn into the the gang thing. And then there's the COP Byron man was the COP Steph. Song was in it as the she's the girl who gets sort of pulled into a brothel awesome and we had eric songs on the way. Yeah so I was. His wife really is like a classic Hong Kong comedian. You know of like Nick. Eighty S Ninety S. And everything. kind of like a gangster also a lot of Rowley police yeah or game show host. Yeah Yeah Yeah So. I speak Mandarin because one of the times when I quit acting I went to well two times I went to China. The first time I went to young Gilford is a Korean minorities own outside just north North Korea and I was I picked ended up picking up a lot of communist creatine but that was eighty six eighty seven and then I decided that I wanted to study Mandarin Angle back so I went back in ninety ninety one time I went to her which is actually the city that see moves born in and we figured it out he would have been about for three or four the time when I was there so he was there. They're very cold city. Yeah yeah that Harbin's a really interesting place. I have to say because it was it was a lot of the white Russians. Moved there After after the Communist revolution and it's one of the yeah. It's got a lot of character that city it also produces a lot of of Do we find you. Guest Beers very popular their motto motto motto motto motto. PG Oh yeah you have to buy stuff like ten bottles and six of them will be good. That's how it works in China but yeah very cold. There minus thirty degrees Celsius in the winter. Speak Korean speak Chinese Mandarin English Canadian. Ah Ah Andrea. I know that you you though array somewhere that Kim's was like one of the first things that you ever when the first light productions you ever been part of right yeah is the first TV need Gig the first better paying gig. I'm pretty sure is the second Gig I ever got paid for. That was more than one hundred dollars. Hundred at the time probably would have been fifty bucks anywhere. Yeah I think without the show. I'd probably not be doing that. Well actor how. How did you actually get on the show? I mean it was just a straight kind of audition thing to do you know wins before no straight up audition. I think they're doing impersonations in Toronto. But I'm from Vancouver so I did a self tape And just to that whole process got to the callback In some people came and did call backs in Vancouver And then a few of US got called to do chemistry reads and at at that point gene and Paul and see who had already been casted acid as a Ma and cheung so they were casting Kim Cheese Janet's Jan uh-huh did you Andrew Actually auditioning saint in the same. Yeah they did some chemistry and I remember reading but Andrew as well Yeah it was like a full day uh of casting of audition auditioning And I remember because I remember writing. I wonder if I can't remember. Andrew Remembers this differently but I remember writing the car back to the because we were going back to our respective cities as in the car with Andrew. And I remember just like we're just silent and not talking to each other because I guess it's like Oh we may never see each other again. So why should we saw and being of airport checking okay thea. Yeah and I just remember. Everyone was really nice when I os auditioning like you guys came in And read with us before. We even auditioned yes. She's really like not knowing really does that. Yeah well there were three three of you in in the room and I I just thought because the one thing about acting is that it doesn't matter how much talent or preparation you have if your nervous it done. It does not matter you are done. Your instrument is shutdown and so I just really wanted to make sure everybody was really comfortable. So Yeah Yeah. Were you only audition kind of pre auditioning with Andrea or stacking the deck. Or was it like with all I. I can't remember exactly. I just remember Kinda going out in greeting everybody and then a red with we read on camera with everybody and they were all good actors but Andrea was the only Janet like the other actors did in fact appear on in season one in other roles but none of them were Janet and and that was really clear to me and to Paul like member after was policy. What do you think hinder you? Andrew Two zero. I can't just sort of like but we didn't want to push it beyond that because we didn't really have the same didn't want but it was like species because you really understood Janet's like Relationship with all like yeah and I was just like they're not gonNA cast me. Ah I I will say one of the things which really does bring the show life for me. Is I think the relationship you guys have with each other and with Paul as well because there's a lot of magic moments between Janet and about Up as well but I I feel like when you guys together. It just really feels very much like take a mother daughter relationship. Yeah and to add to that I feel like you guys kind of were like that in real life too we all get along. We all get along really well. Well and and Paul's a great number one and he's he's he's he's a good friend so we all we all take care of each other. We're like slow eastern to dress alike to Relax Oh we both look like a homeless village of people. The last time I saw you guys I was interested in Toronto for the Film Fest Film Festival and you guys came out for screening movie but we're all there which I thought was like so cool. They ask him up together and it was like they really do. They hang out together their their friends. That's cool. I also noticed like when we were there like we were supposed to go and hang out afterwards like I was going to have Like dinner with with Paul all in Andrew. But I remember trying to get out from the third story of this theater down to the bottom at this. Pack the people who recognize this like it was impossible impossible to like actually like. Hey No with Hudson acts like we can't get anywhere because everyone wants to take a photo like that. Yeah I mean that's crazy the swarmed at it's a bit it can be a bit it takes a lot of energy to to to to deal with it graciously and also to is not get like you know what I mean to give take that positive energy in and sent positive energy out at the same time as as feel calm about it. It's it's tough being Asian famous guys or does famous but This may be a good time for us. Take breaking into the. Yeah yeah all right so this is a good time for us to take a break but when we return we'll be playing our signature segment the good the bad and the WF so stick around. Let's break hi. This is in this Zara and we are the good Muslim bad Muslim podcast. It is a show about being to Muslim women. In America we talk about pop culture the pork lobby periods when we talk about Islamophobia Patriarchy and smashing white supremacy. It's a range download the good Muslim awesome badness and podcast wherever you get your podcast or a good Muslim bad Muslim dot com. And we're back all right for the second half they call spruce. We're GonNa do our favorite segment the good the bad the WWF Jeff Yang would you please lay down the rules of engagement. How so this is our roundtable? Format Matt Segment of the show. We end this off Every episode off with this. And what we're GonNa do is talk about a single topic three different ways for the a good. The thing that makes us feel happy and warm and excited about that topic then. There's the bad the thing that we kind of have issues with and just generally Feel kind of negative vibes around that topic and finally the Devotee Ed. This hasn't had to be good or bad. It could be either or both. It could be neither. I think we're still questioning turning over our heads and it's still slow basically about that topic and since we didn't talk very broadly about Out these issues and since we have again half of one of the few Asian yes poor families. TV with us. We thought just the holidays. We do a good about half of family and photos worth. We want to talk about it from an expansive definition of family so it could be your actual family as it could be TV family. It could be the notion the concept of family Or even the kind of broader. You know dice sport family. We all belong to So to put Somebody on the spot. Let's begin with Eugene the good what is the good of family. I think the good family is eating together. Kinda meals ye together. The the the the the special event meals plus the regular meals. I love taking my mom and dad out these days like too tired to cook but I mean in our our local. You know Korean restaurant and just hanging out I I love. I love making big family family meals whether it's for my my my my family that the UN clan or or chosen family or the. Kim's Vam. I it's it's like a circle of love should have food at the center. That's the good it is. Yeah Yeah but food is so important and and none of this like everybody has their individual plate with like you know that looks like a pretty picture is like big league bowls of food in the middle. Everybody gets to choose from the same from the same range of dishes what they want and Yeah if you're not sharing germs in saliva. You're not sharing love. That's about when you love someone you have to share all your diseases part of the. That's that's the kind of inherent in Korean marine food in that there are actually so many communal dishes on the table. Like you gotTa say there's some cross contamination but at the same time with cream food right like Kimchi. If there's a germ there the Kim. She's GonNa kill it right. No that garlic. It's going to kill it. That's why that's why we eat it and and so you know the one thing about that is a little bit like weird to me though like I can handle. We're all reaching our chopsticks into the Pinetown. Rhineland the side dishes. But like it's when we're dipping our spoons into the same shared. Yes that's a little bit weird to be the soup or the stew and and you put in your mouth and then go right really okay. That's a little too much I'd rather have my own balls very intimate it. Yeah I find it a bit weird too but at the same time. The Giga has all you know. Go to John in it and there any germs. It's GONNA kill it. Also like scalding hot process will wouldn't want to do that with desert or a cold desert now the germs will be like. I'm at birth eating from other people's way Kafelnikov doing that last night like two thirty in the morning keep G. Kimchi Pokemon go we just went. We took a new back to the hotel. And then we frantically like we're we're going through all these food apps to see what place had was still delivering and Wouldn't take an hour. Yeah Yeah it was good. So we're somebody from out of town was at our table and as the gala ended there like Phil Phil can you tell me. They're they're like. Can you tell me where I can go. We can go right now. It's like close to eleven o'clock where we can get a bullet configure. Yeah well if you want to both kidney or anything at eleven it's GonNa be interesting it pretty much right. It's like those are the places that are going to be open about time but someone said A. B. C. D. soon do was that your friend just Just twenty four hours. Yeah but then but I like I I. I think it was a mistake but I when I look for it on Uber. It said it would take US thirty five to forty minutes to get their cost one hundred and thirty nine dollars and and then I checked it again later it would only be like seventeen dollars to get there but by that point Andrew and I are like the oh so tire I worth one hundred thirty nine dollars all right. So that's that's great good for for for family Let's let's go to Phil. What's what's your good about Finley? My the good is This is a Broadway to talk about this but like yeah I think the good is the family. That's got your back in all situations you know you you go through a lot in your life and your career ear and everything like that. And that's like troubles along the way that have been like more public than usual Without going into we were talking about this before. But it's like it always comes up sometimes on the on the podcast but you know when I'm going through a hard time and people know that like the people you can really depend on family And they're they're like you know they're in your corner you know and and it's funny lately my I have I have. We had two weddings with my family this year. Both my sisters got married this year. Actually yeah it was so it got to be really reflective of my you. Oh my to my sister's getting married now they're all grown up and off It made me think about sort of all the stuff we've been through in our lives and how we've you you know one of our kids. We're like you know we. Can you know normal kids do. But as we've grown older adults like like I would you know there's no one else I'd trust more than my family. They're the ones you've got your back and so become more and now as I'm as a father her to like you just become reflective of like the value of your family your siblings and on that. Sorry I just said that's true in a for me The good thing about family isn't just guide her back. It's they kind of keep reminding you. Are I feel like a lot of times I mean. Especially on the periphery of a a certain. Kind of Notoriety right you know like when Hudson when Hudson Yang as you mentioned goes out in public sometimes like you see. It's crazy to see you know. There's like six foot two specimen standing. They're stranded by like think people who are much older than in some cases are much younger. And you don't WanNa pictures and everything like so weird and bizarre that this is like my son right but then like coming home and realizing that you know once that goes away. He's just the same in a lot of you know same sort of soft and warm and and sometimes cranky whiny like kid that he has been even as he's grown up so much and I feel like that's always been the case for me to that family knows how to take you down just far enough that you were. Khan remember where you came from Sometimes I go a little too far but there's a certain warmth in feeling like your normal like you're at home when you're with them can retreat and you don't have the same. Necessarily Tim Burns of expectations families. We can kinda like walk around with pants on in front of so to speak now. We'll we use pass on even even even with them on in this podcast but yeah so you know it's having so many have your back but also kind of keeping you grounded. It was kind of definition of family and so the two sides of the coin. I think Andrea. How about yourself? What's the good good I guess it's kind of similar to what you guys are talking about. But maybe the unconditional love. Because I feel like your family. Are The people best parts like. They're the people you hate but you also love them because it is unconditional The kind of it's someone that you can one hundred percent with and it doesn't have to be blood. Family could be friends as well. I would define them as family as well But they see you at your worst and they accept you no matter what so. Yeah during times when things might be a little crazy outside in the world. They're they're the ones who truly no you a known you since you're young is okay if I ask actually about your your family has a work Because I know that you've actually been doing some collaboration with your sister. Dianna Dang also actor and It's kind of funny because she's also the sort of a sideways connection into fresh off the boat right in that she co-starred with Randall. Park and Patriarch of our family or husband's husband's family hasn't brought TV in the interview. I'm curious about two things one is like so. Did you both decide. You want to act at the same talk did you both kind of begin your career's kind of at the same time or and how has it actually been you know being in the same space as a word you now. Has It ever been competitive as has always been fairly collaborative cooperative. Abla bruises that. I'm just kidding No I mean she's older so she got into it Before four I did I think both it's I don't want to speak for her but I feel like both of us kind of had the same situation where it something we always wanted to do. And we're younger but didn't didn't really feel like there was the space to do it So we proceeded a bit older can my brain farting Yet but in terms in terms of like. I don't find to be have competitiveness between us. We want to work together. And that's what we're we're trying to make stuff together. We made a short film together Karaoke. Mama's if you've seen it actually Canada's they're and under a little entertainment system all mazing it's part of the story high trio But Yeah we want to like we want to work together But I think more from like creating standpoint was was she. She was in the interview before before you began Kim's convenience right was was that kind of weird. Because I mean I remember being on set with Randolph. All Hell's breaking loose right. I don't know how much of that spilled over to Dan and to you therefore extensions well instill over the rental talk about like being spooked at people. You know strangers. Just like in his yard whatever's on the gosh of them so many years as long as I don't know what was happening I feel like we will probably in a bubble in Canada. I got I got the email they say. Your Information Shen is as part of like like a whole bunch of actors in Gin like not just American actress but any actor who's attached to any project. That was a Sony Project. Project shot candidate so I got the I got the email saying your information as part of this hack. So take precautions and Wa- Blah Blah. I mean I'm sure it was scary scary. I haven't really talked to her about it because I never asked me Louis upset man again family treat you as if you are not in film. I watched it together like in the first week. Are we did it. The one of those On demand things you pay full price week watching at home. 'CAUSE 'cause all of this stuff was going on and my dad's going. I don't think it's that insulting crazy. I mean that was like the craziest thing in the world for a moment mm-hmm and then it just kind of like nothing came of it right. Yeah yeah like so many things so that that's a great good though conditional even under threat like North Korean assess nation. And you're okay. Let's let's go back around and let's talk about the bad and when we when we actually can we start with you and is there a bad associate with family Oh God you miss. Your sister is the bad. There's lots I mean I kind of wondered because you mentioned that you've been acting was a possibility. How much of that that was because of like? Oh there's no opportunity and how much that was like you know. Let's say you're saying are you guys. You know nuts. There's there's encouraged encouraged or discouraged from pursuing both you guys from. I think he was all of that. It was the fact that one there wasn't a lot of Asian mm people on TV or film to there wasn't like I didn't know anyone who is pursuing it at the time So it just seemed like like people who were there were fake people. It was just this world that you don't know about And then three it wasn't super supported But more so from the standpoint of Lake I mean at the time you're like but it's also it's funny because it wasn't supported before But because like when our parents when my parents immigrated it was more like Oh we immigrated to create this better life for kids We struggle to so that our kids wouldn't have to and I feel like the definition of acting is to struggle so it's obviously isn't the best career choice but then now when yes my mom. She's like Oh you got your acting skills from me because she wanted to be a performer. When she was with growing up but she also didn't pursue it because her mom didn't want her to just watch like if I have uh-huh be actors I one hundred percent know that Hudson's kids are GonNa be like rebellion doctors and engineers and they'll be like you now you can support us we WanNa do this profession? Dad Phil is there a bad I touched on this on a previous episode and I it's become more pronounced as we done the holidays inhere heading into Christmas as well but I mentioned this. My sisters got married And they you know. They became part of other families as well. Right which means that. And I've I've this in my own family And having laws and stuff like that but like negotiate these like for us like Christmas and Thanksgiving. We're like that's where we all got together and it was like it was always like that was the we we knew back the other for Thanksgiving. But we've had to you know like not GonNa call anybody the out. Our family was one hundred percent. Thanksgiving this past thanksgiving. Because you know you you spend time with your in laws now to negotiate that and so became more pronounced manning it was. I understood what it was like. It's also like well said we're not going to be always like it's not going to always be the family at full force. You have to pick some Asian holidays like Like and like and then and then and then plant your flag on that. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah I mean there's always GonNa be though you know that fragmentation the occurs as we get older I mean especially since we have our own families families that we have to you know pull together but I will say that sometimes blake and so this is GonNa be my bad right. Sounds like it could be a little tough kidding around him too much right. I definitely feel like my of my sister. Disturb particular has gotten so much better as adults because we weren't like constantly in each other's face net here all the time and you know part of that family knows too taken much about you know how to like stabbed in the you know the pressure points. They know exactly how to take down so it's also flipside they keep you grounded but they keep ground and they put like rocks on top of that so the holidays. especially that's rough like when I go home and I mean I'm GONNA be back to New York from to see my parents you know. Bring the kids to see the parents. The grandparents and I just know that as soon as I walked into the house like I will. They'll be the hundred thousand microaggressions about like my weight. You know the fact that I'm looking older or for me. Yes so so that would be my my bed. Yeah family can drive. Have you crazy honey. You're so old now. Lost Weight US need to gain weight. I don't know you gaining weight. Okay you know money Saudi about you make suffer so much because yeah family can drive drive you crazy. Especially when they they. I remember my mom was talking about law for the longest I was into my forties before my mother stopped talking about law. Aw when she stopped. Now that's the right now like my mom is so happy. Like she's just like she thank. Thank God hi. Because she's like it's not to me that she's saying thank. You released like to God that I'm not poor anymore and then I've got. I've got aww kid and I'm a I've got recognition and things are going well and she's just gotTa yeah so your family can make you say it because they know all your secrets and then and then the thing that's really irritating is when there's something that happened when your kids and they're convinced that you're still all that way like I'm I'm fifty seven and I still I go to my mother's house. She still talks to me and we have interactions. That are exactly the same same as when I was thirteen years old and and it's so difficult not to react exactly the same way as I did when I was like like thirteen. Like my mom's everything. Can you sit table and I. We have big fights about because it's like why should I sit the table. Danny's right here youngsters right there. Like I'm Ashley Sleep. I got my hands full Columbia. Just do but Even that start is is softening now and so that. That's that's that's the the the thing about family is that is that they you know you love him so much that they can wound you so deeply and it's like I think like like love grief through the same thing and it just you know they. They sort of constantly in motion. Yeah I'm I'm just really I just I'm just feeling really Grateful and that that my parents such good health and and that actually. I'm also really grateful that they've they that they have that. I've managed to achieve chiefs some kind of success. That that sues them bef- you know 'cause there eighty nine and I think it's just nice to know that that they're not worrying anymore about me because they used to and that worry was such a burden you know about that. Success that would also include receiving uh-huh. Yeah well this a bunch of things I got I was I received the the burks diamond tribute for women in film in Canada in September which is really loves with awards six women and And really in just a gorgeous group of of of artists to be Associated with Wendy Cruzan was one of the other recipients and and yeah that was awarded by Saragan was like my God. You know And then Coming up in February Is the actress award of excellence the Active Toronto Award of excellence. Which means a lot to me? Because it's coming from my peers and it's not just particularly for this particular show but really for a body of work but also that that award also recognizes artists who who are committed to the collective action Through our Union and I say our our union actress Union is really really great bunch. The people we have who worked really hard. And who provided for for for the entire community whether it's advancing sexual harassment policy or or professional development opportunities through the conferences that we have and always negotiating agreements so yea after Toronto. No no unions. Yeah Yeah so now. We're last round. I guess right the WPF. And I'M GONNA fill. What are you start off the WTO? Okay we'll see. How are we going to phrase this so My mom still makes our families owned Kimchi. Wow she makes it in the garage giant Tub. She uses all the real fresh ingredients. It's like a and she tells me like my family in Korea thinks I'm crazy because nobody does this anymore. It's like a kind of a dying art right Most people get their stuff that store now but my mom's still she learned it over the years. She says when she first started she sought to alerted from her mother-in-law. My Dad's mom who is amazing at it. But she's over the years sort of perfected her Kimchi. And all these other punt on like and We grew up spoiled on that and so for us. It's like it's the goal all center so if I go to a restaurant and they have their kids like this is like this to vinegar whatever. This isn't ripe you know we have every home. Has Their own sort love. Kimchi level. I get like taste level so my mom makes this and we're like it's like the most to my family. I think it's the most price the thing that you know. And so but lately we've been all talking and we're like we all should learn. We need to learn this craft the skill you. Oh you mean like we're just for posterity because like because it's already industry-wide is already sort of a dying art. You know like my sisters and I and my wife. We're like we're like we're GONNA get out of camera. She's making this just like I don't record this or something because you know so. That's like a I beginning to realize that this is a true like family. Kind of heirloom. In a Lotta ways right like that the recipe and the way we make Kimchi. And I'm like I don't know if I could spare garage to meet somebody. We still ought to like. Make sure this is preserved. You know it's funny because because it's kind of a call back to this notion that food. Yeah but it's not just about the president's all about the past food because it hearkens hearkens back to things like the dumpling seen versions where it's like the way that we remind ourselves that we show that we're family by making making food together and then eating it it and also how you inherit or pass down these secrets these treasures these these sort of legacies intellectual property in some ways offensively. So it's super amazing and the challenge. Gordon it's more than just jotting down the ingredients in a recipe. You know what I mean like this because it involves formation so it involves temperature. How much salt? How at what temperature you pack it in and and understanding the fermentation process? So you don't have any oxygen in and the temperature that you store at depending on the speed that you wanNA fermented at my father author. I found out when I was forty. Something that my father taught. My mother had a make such a deep secret. They didn't didn't let it out until all my 'cause debt. My Dad immigrated I and he taught him like basically all these bachelor scientists in Illinois. Where we're making they're on Kimchi? They had to then my mother rising. She was raised with servants so she never made her own Kimchi. So I didn't know when I was trying to learn how to make kids. She has living out in the middle of Alberta Cream restaurants. I'm phoning home. I need you can't you do 'em ask Daddy. Why okay so? I talked up to dad and he says do it like this. And this this amount of salt this amount this temperature if you want it faster more salt this time and it was like being by being boop done. It was easy but with such a dark secret. Like there's a pardon me like why do I even now. She makes Kimchi now but is originally might might like a Korean woman. Who doesn't make your own Kimchi? Oh I prefer to think this way that that's like your dad's love language. That's the way I'm sure he's asleep while he kept his. He kept to seek the secret all these years and it's sort of came out at one point where they were going back to your thing though it's like I can't imagine imagine family dinners and stuff to just be like all store. Bought Punch on store. Bought Kimchi. I don't know that doesn't it feels weird right. Yeah we need a little bit of sweating. They're not just okay. I'll go with WPF and then we'll kick it over to Eugene Gene and then let's close ended up very to take home up my So make a real quick. Is I think one of the things about family family. And this is maybe worth more specifically about. Parenthood is at some point. You look in the mirror and you see your mom your dad or both right and maybe so this is physically. You know you just say Oh my God where my hair go and see my face shape. All listen evolved into the same kind of dumpling. Shave my dad. Wherever but also it's like when you start replicating the behaviors but were thinking promised you never do because like Oh my God? My parents just like roby on this thing and then of course my kid's I'd say the same thing to do the same thing just like that. The Doug Chef is family like Thanos is inevitable. You know it's like Inheritance of everything about that. That imprinting Gessen's unheard does pass way down and it's it's it's it's great and it's roughly the same time you look like you're dead by the way you know who looks like you're dead though is Schuyler you guys crazy. Yeah nothing nothing. All right What is your w yeah? I'm just I'm just thinking I on New York because it's true like I remember at Number Times first few times where I have dinner parties and I would be like essentially assaulting my guest going. You have to try. Hi this and then no no really have to try this. Are you going to try this year. Have some more which is like it like my mother. This kind of insistent like you have to eat eight more. You have to eat this. I still do it that that that that kind of Weird behavior that's imprinted online mm psyche and I have to say. I'm really lucky that playing Mrs Kim is that I've been able to process a lot of my mother's behavior and it's been a larger is your project but you know there's a thing that happens when you're young and you going. Why does she do that making me? And then as a as a as you mature at and then you Kinda go because the question at the beginning is you know if she loves me why does she this way. Right and then as you're older is is like as a mother you kinda going. How is it possible that I love my kids so much but I drive them so crazy? So there's is that and then there's the whole thing of like where ending up wearing the same clothes and look like and it's funny too because this summer summer I I did some shopping for my mom Because I know the kind of clothes she likes. I also like the sort of casual linens for the summer and I took it and she I took it over to her place. She loved it and I dropped by the House and she was wearing some of the clothes that I bought her and I was wearing some of the clothes from the same shopping. So she'll be redressed in exactly the same outfit fit and I just thought then look at us today. Oh my God i GonNa aright every take us home. What is the lingering about family? The W. T. F.. I mean maybe it's because I'm not not apparent but like all the things you're talking about of the things you do for your child yeah is it. WTN for me where it's like you say one thing we're like. Oh I really you like this Kimchi and then all of a sudden. There's like ten jars of Kimchi. You're like I can't eat all of this and then the next day they'll be even another ten jars like And same idea when you're going wing when you're eating and then they just kind of fl your food because it's like love is food so the more you eat the more I love you. Here's yeah that's the WTO WTO and then they criticize you like how you're gaining. My mom basically like made my one of my cats diabetic when my left Bob with her and she's like Bob so much so challenge alien you gentleman everything I give him eat so nice and she was giving him robby for our kitten. Fleet gained so much weight and then he became diabetic but he eats every single. We have a conversation like this kid so much. All right all right. Well that does it we did. We've gone around around Andrea Gene. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you Gene how can people find you online. I'm on twitter at gene underscore Yun and I'm trying to figure out in some. I'm not very good at it. My son tells me my a poster kind of embarrassing but I am trying and I believe it's Geniune eighty-eight on instagram. Yeah so yeah I met on twitter at Eye Andrea Bang and then on Instagram at Andrea Dot. Bang he like you're supposed to have the same handle everything but again I to him the media. Ah Yes I am pretty much the same thing everywhere original spin on twitter mostly on twitter mostly on twitter. Because that's where I engage. An extensive debates about footwear. With Jean. Yeah that was fun. I love how it's either again again reading or elevated this twitter threads into a an avalanche of clips of people are moving their viewpoints. It's a big deal for us. It was a big deal for us with with With Paul and and so forth I mean I think if there's one thing that really Kim's convenience has done better than any other show on TV and that includes this is fresh off the boat. It's it's like there's a certain kind of unadulterated and authentic depiction of Asian immigrant. Family Life Right and the shoe shoe piece of it is just one piece. But I actually think that you know the the role of of family and Kim's convenience and a little bit different fresh off the boat fresh will vote is really about like the whole fish out of water thing but Kim's convenience is much more about lay family within the context of a community like the church. And you know. View the neighbors. And there'd be Kinda hold. He asked her arm of Toronto. Yes it's it's the Korean Canadian family in in the multicultural city in a context and Yeah the shoe thing was was fun and and also like I remember walking onto the set of the Of the Kim Family House the apartment For the first time and I'd seen the set about four or five days before he was shooting US thinking. Oh this is Kay hey but there were things that weren't quite right but I thought on my place but by the time we walked on set to shoot it it was so bang on. 'cause inside gone around on. This is Chinese. This is not right. This isn't right and I think he took the art department to his parents home to maybe another the family home to look at stuff so by the time it got there they were. You know big cabinet full of evils you know the and and the kind of art and then that mix of of Canadian Kitsch right next next to you know you know Korean painting and it was And slow all slightly outdated furniture. Because why would you throw it out because it still good. uh-huh yeah all right Phil. How can people find angry? Angry angry demand DOT com. You can find our show at they. Call US Bruce on twitter instagram facebook etc If you feel so inclined please find us on on Apple podcasts. And give us a rating or view hopefully a positive one and we've appreciated greatly gene Andrea. Thank you so much for being on the show and let's come back. Please come back come back to Toronto. Yeah winter or Vancouver uncover. Yeah yeah seriously. If you come in the summary come visit set there. Yeah okay okay all right. Well that doesn't for this episode of they caused Bruce. Thank you so much and he's.

Mrs Kim Toronto South Korea Canada China Paul Hudson Yang US Andrew North Korea Jeff Yang Phil Phil Andrea Asia Kim Cheese Janet Asian Prom America Bruce
44. The Two of Us SHORTS with Karen Arthur

The Two Of Us

35:28 min | 4 months ago

44. The Two of Us SHORTS with Karen Arthur

"You rebels radio presents. The two of US shorts with Albert Frederick High. This is naming lettuce. Welcome to the US charts myself. Alba Frederick talking to people across the globe about that pandemic experience and its relationship to creativity mental health and emotional wellbeing and as always I'd like to trigger warning these adult shows of the themes will be complex and interesting and maybe it sometimes be triggering. If you're over ten the disposition today put this on pause and put market for later. Otherwise die right today. I'm extremely excited. Because I've got the most charismatic charming creative visionary to add to that list carom Arthur on my show on although I've only met Karen in person once I saw fail because when we met you're talk the welcome I felt we've known each other for times that we just haven't connected in this one that had this sort of ancient feeling about and Taranov also known as Redskin and so. I think if anybody has that computer open at the time of bombs too late I'll put the link in the show notes. I recommend go into Karen's website because it's a festival of color and joy. So how would you describe Your Day job? Goodness whoa mother took the food or jewelry the full android. Because it's quite my say if what's changed. What hasn't changed. Yeah well my day job before cave it on the fashion designer and the seven cheater. I create spoke clothing. Women are news anchor African fabrics and mix the to mix those with other fabrics and to create clothing that enables weaving to stand on stand out And I also teach people how to sew so I go to people's homes and teach them how to fool enough with US own gene or full back in love with this many people have the same machine and It's if I think is broken. I forgot how to use it. Or it's they both still in the box and so I get the kind of Putin help them to lend to. So because it's a creativity is a wonderful thing. You know Yeah I think the thing about sewing as well. I haven't done any since I was at school. But it's it's the something from nothing thing you know and it doesn't take that long you know you can have a load of material in front view and then some good focus and some knowing what you're doing you can have an outfit are outfit which changes who you are in the world. I'm interested in not just creating something to wear but also the process of creating when I sit down at my same Shane. I physically. Xm It's a it's almost inactive prey. Because it's it's the it's the action it's the it's doing it's the I don't know who it's hard to describe but yes certainly to making something to wear and certainly to making being part of something that you've made but I think that It's much much more than that so many so much do so every day of your life trauma to one. I five years ago. I left my long. Teaching career was a teacher for twenty eight years and one of the things I started to do was to look and creating a list of things I have to do everyday. That would help me to be well. I was who thanks auty and depression. So I was an wasn't very well and I had to look at. I thought the leaving teak teachings very stressful job and I thought the teaching leaving teaching sorry would be the answer to all my words but actually it was funny thing just the beginning and and not having that UNCON- having that job to focus on meant that floundered to put it very mildly so I had to think about what I love I love doing and one of the things he's creating is not always sewing. I thought it was seven. Isn't wasn't always that when I was depressed. I wasn't really interested in in time. She actually I lost as you may know when you're depressed you on at least the will to do a lot of things especially the stuff that you love and so. I don't want to do that but I ended up doing was Hatton serving quilt. It started off as these little scrap pieces of african-print fabric and I had about. It was probably about twelve hundred twelve inches. I work in inches. I am I. Someone asked us to go to a weekly cross. Social the left my house since to go to his social. Meet up with these locally meter with these octogenarians and plus the lady who ran the cross section and someone said King and I would make it a quilt. It was literally as big as a cushion. I can't go and that's plentiful I did. I forgotten the coast. I've forgotten the quest night Your so every day. Do I said semi while I do now. Apart from Sundays. Seeked I've if enough swerved Because COVERT HAS LOCKED DOWN. I get most you want to. Gdn while Sane. And I saw that people many around beginning of March I sue the people a couple of people out and about wearing medical musts and I remember thinking. Oh that's ring. I'm GonNa make one hour of some puppet and that's why did I rent a pest making one place in the pitcher on Instagram and Guessing a few loves someone else got should be fashioned in that kind of thing but not thinking much of it just GonNa make something myself and then lovely lady. Heidi on twitter sent me a direct message and setting and it was before lockdown full lockdown. It was just before we knew what is happening now and was like yeah right so I think data three or and just the week before. Then somebody Else Austin. I sent on the then and then. Just before lockdown was announced decided to high recall and bring my sewing machine on my mannequin. Ansa Fabric Code. That was on Thursday the Monday. We will look down. I was back in my kitchen where I started serving over twenty years ago and all my I have a small room in my Eppie guests or canceled so I had literally nothing coming in and I was losing sleep. Thinking Shit will look at a day. How I'M GONNA pay for Movie GonNa pay my bills. What we're GONNA do. And then the face cover thing started to take off side said a few more out to clients and I put some of my website and here we are And it's the money saw which is great. Actually it gives me reason to Gavin Moaning. I love working with all these colorful vibrant. I love the fact that I've chosen to ask people for their favorite colors and then I choose. So that gives me an element of bespoke. I never wanted to be someone. Humaid things to sell as in made a batch of things to sell. Because I like the thought that I'm sending a little bit of happy out into people's crimes. I'm very conscious of the fact that they're not mosques. They don't have a insert and they don't medical malls. They are designed to stop people to remind you to start touching your face and they looked glorious. I almost half a fool because of couse unlike to match the colors and when I get up in the morning I like to make a decision about and get away then rather than planet. I'm yeah I'm interested in what you're saying because like you said when you sit down at your same machine. You exhale knits type of prayer. And you're sending these things out which they're not medical mosque so there is research which says you know just covering your face anyway does protect other people around. You have the same protection as the sort of proper medical moss but it. It cuts down the risk but also it's a signals while it's a reminder but it's also like you say in these horrible times it's a happy reminder so your prayer it also of prayer of collective joy which is part of your work anywhere by enabling people how they dress themselves the colors they choose to bring joy into their life and express that joy to others is happening with the. Marsk which could be seen as quite sad. You know the size associations with Asin powerless associations with that annual saying now. I'm doing my Karen off the thing. It's going out in the world with a punch in pumps in the air. Kisumu hug them. That seems to be part of it. Now you've also threatens the questions really about how life before Kobe mine teen and what it's like now and because we're talking about giving up your teaching job in this huge transition from one life you've had to another which is dramatically different and how we were talking before I started recording the transition from your pre covid life to this one year and now seems to be easier. Do you feel that your experience? Before gone through this terrible wrench leaving your job. Reinventing yourself overcoming yourself in a more deeper way that transition and transformation has aided during some way to go from one phasing to your life to another that collective phase which has different challenges Russell. I strongly believe fats heating anxiety and depression and dealing with everything that throughout me because there were other things as well happened in the same year has prepared me for now because then I had a heart to learn myself I had to. I certainly was faced with it was Akahata turned my gaze on myself. I spent as many women do decades looking off other people on the eldest children are have two children so I was looking after my then partner. I am looking after I mean they I. Women are taught to give their would better to be carries given so. That's what I was doing and certainly hours in a situation by McDonald's for university where I had to look after myself and never that before I had to be gentle with myself so I have to learn about what I like him. Why dislike and I know the I like silence I? I'm an extra you know at seen as someone who would be the life of the Party in an extra whilst I am that I am Central Valley silence that I learned to meditate. I used to think people. He meditated slutty July. How could you? I didn't understand how you could sit in. Silence didn't get it. On End to Meditate I learnt Journal and Journal every day as opposed to just writing down when I felt sad which means I have lots of journals food of sad things whereas now I have generals that awful joyful things and I discovered the I love nature. I love walking exercise so I create a routine. A life are created. Live actually for myself this time. Around how stupid good. Because he's helped me to navigate. This would you cool. It is still listed awakening. This magnus all of the above. Because I have all these things in place so I'm actually quite enjoying this. Com is a really odd thing if you look at other countries and the way that they've handled their lockdowns the UK is really in lockdown per se. We are eight. Many people are able to thought for. Now you know The Chilton ripe in I know certainly in my parents country about isis the minute they had and cases that they implemented a curfew. You had talked the permit because Bob I. This is a small country. There's no way that they would cut with with dispassionate. Really took owed so. I feel that my experience I stood me in good stead and much of the island of knowing that everybody take anything certainly grateful to what I went through five years ago. Four years ago three years ago. Because it's put me in a strong position and calm position. Now you know and we go through things for reading. I believe ever no coincidences seven. Yeah I yeah. I'm a big believer in routine. Let's just put it that way. I'm sorry wanted happy with daily routine or as a weekly routine and how structured are you and how much comfort thousand routine and structure that give you. Well it's interesting because if I think about it when I was teaching I had a routine my routine even though I felt I was chaotic. My RUCCI was designed governed by the school. So you were innocent in time. You change lessons and Tom. Break Sentence I that was my routine. I didn't realize that he was so important to me so not stopped. I can only describe it. I can see it now. So matching a sky and someone falling through it and alms flailing and their legs flailing. That's how it felt. I was in free full. I honestly didn't know it. And so my route so I would say for a good four years. My routine was very rigid to the point that that in itself difficult because you have to be gentle with you so so it would mean that if I go up in I got to the end of the and haven't done certain things I would then beat myself up about it and that's naked. So now I have known negoti booze my Negoti who is actually making myself in liberty and something about putting the cat long waiting for to boil cutting the lemon. I have a little too. Chopping board is specific. Chapter both do when I was on holiday and my easily Adji said that was my layoff Monica so I have a specific legal things like that little sliver of Ginger in where I put it in a Special Cup. These things that are important to me. But I've taught myself if my daughter she's my cup or runoff. Lemons is not the end of the world it whereas a few years ago I would. I would have been anxious because I didn't have much up. I let go of a lot more now but I suppose I also in this lockdown. I've become even more grateful for the fact that I can move and I can walk outside because I've had difficulties with my physical health in the past which I couldn't move to book. Beautiful came bright pink with a wouldn't handle peaceful and so I'm grateful for the outdoors. I'm grateful I have pokes Napley but I can go to my mind. Non-negotiable is going out. Rank shine first thing in the morning. I if I've done that the rest of the is fun. I'm happy being answer. You when you say the first thing what time is first thing I in his agent. It's OK well. I'm in early on early riser. I recognize the need sleep and sleeping moon and I'm not feeling guilty patsy an eleven APP. I feel like if my body's tired that I'm tired and ongoing going to bed whereas in the past I would throw a golden gate old guideline account. You know. I need to be awake. I need to be busy busy. I don't feel that way anymore. Listen to what is needed niche. If I'm tired refined failing a certain thing I'm not doing it I didn't do not do things identity or I accept the things. I have to do outlet dump mentioned the House. What this thing. 'cause it sounds as very gentle pace that you have when you respond to way dressing. It's very intuitive response. And do you know having lemon in the morning is a little rich will? But if it doesn't happen one day skies not gonNA fold. But there's the sense of pacing yourself this my to continuity which is forced and is that has that continuity That sense of of an anais slow gentle pace house lot intensified since lockdown or is the embracing of that slow pace happened as a result of the lockdown. I think it's intensified beaten conscious about needing the this is the thing the face cover making face covers has given me a purpose. I always I know I have apis and on very clear about now doing things that I love but I didn't realize how much I need to have a reason to get up in the mooning and I feel like I. I've listened very closely to how I feel. I dress how I feel. I am not good at planning on going to wear for the next day the next week or might have an idea but actually this morning I got up on unfailing light wearing red and orange wearing missing my aunt on wearing a skirt. She eats to that belonged to her skirt. The belong to her this stress on many say not to Katie East to the two zero to have to wear something underneath it. This had wrap is over thirty five years old. I believe in choosing cleansing. That makes you feel happy for whatever reason and sometimes it's color. Sometimes it's memory. Sometimes it's texture dressing just because you want to and I also have intensified my way. You're happy at home because I'm dressing as if I'm leaving now but do not wear my pajamas. Do not stay in my sweatpants. Because I fe- I think that would make me. I not serve me. You preempted my question because I've got all these bullet punk questions but that was I was thinking about. You know the so this this idea you know about sound in a forest store sound on a foreign planet there. There's nobody to hear it. Does it still make us on the idea that you have something has to be witnessed for it to be validated? But you're saying I'm the witness. I'm I'm the witness. I'm dressing up for me drawing the lockdown because my experience has been totally different. I've been dressing in deliberately comfortable clothes so if I need to rest or if I fancied on some stretchy yoga or do some gardening. I'm in clothes. That might not look good. But it's very much about being super comfortable. I think that's because I've had quite a lot of anxiety so I want my clothes to fail. At any point. I can flop and be cozy rather than nuts. You happy is my hat. Goes even black to them. Look quite of stare at the like a Rizal Serious interview wearing a little black crooner here but I think it is because it. It's still an intuition. I want to go to somewhere where I feel faith. So and that's that's fascinating because I think that women we we have been brought up to believe that we need to just to look at why and I never dress to look a certain way. I wear exactly what I want to because I am the judge me and so I won't and microbes are comfortable. This is the other thing is that I wear clothes that are comfortable. I don't trust myself. Why would I do that? What do you know I only? I just happen to like color. Different Peop- Maya happy is not necessarily you'll have is not necessarily somebody else's by Putin is do not dress to impress anybody. I do not dressed to impress any would address this interview. I just because I'd know the I I feel great. You know and I think that moved people pool. I said particularly women. Because we've been get the bad wrapping the whole fashion before Monday's but this works for everybody. Where Will you love? We're in the middle of pandemic. This is absolute system. We do not know how he's going to affect us. In months years decades to come we do not know and so the little things we can do to make ourselves feel good in our own homes. We should do them. You Know Anantha me. Fashion is not one creating is not way making face covers from fabric Absolutely do is my way you know it. It's nobody else's business. It just so happens that it works for many people I can talk about you. Happy for very long on this. I to say unsure. The people came up with the same day same time but certainly when I came through depression. It helped me come through more. Depression is one of the things we can read. Depression and anxiety is rediscovering. My connection to clothing you know an a bereavement close on also really helped me to use my clothing. My head fronts. More fabrics are textiles to lift me out of this depression and I think that the fact that it's we're now in a situation where we're on. I'M WE'VE GONE. Wardrobes to our disposable to disposal looking in your who driving trying. Claes on the you know you wouldn't normally wear aware in a different way I'm wear this is dress. This talk thing. Ec is address the on wearing other for a long skirt. I happen to have never worn this combination before and I'm absolutely loving it. I'M GONNA put a picture on my instagram late. A layering wearing things differently wearing jackets in dues. I'm having a blast. You know and I highly recommend it up so there's another woman. She's a writer. Performer cool pull Lavar Jack. She's just she's a now one of these lots style icons the I know she got all these women I know just slide and especially black women that while you look amazing you look amazing how the dressing is just such an inventions let the outcome mate of dressing. And she's another person she posts every day another outfit. I'm white I won't let Boiler Soon Lamont Mike Catt Soon. I won't was Bloody Lips. It you know so look. I'm I think this thing about embellishment paying attention. Am I think may my way or happy? People who listeners won't be able to hear this but you can say vaguely in the background of my screen. I've got a little altar which busy and busier. It's got so much on it now and there's bits of it. I alter every day I have angel called styles and other cars and then I add stuff to it and it's a little ritual at school candles incense it's everything apart from a couple of teams last. It's got everything that but I I like. That's how the May I think my my visual take is much more about my environment. I'm a bit of a fairy life. Fan Candles soft lighting the so subtle arrangements of things on the shelf is something I really liked to do. Gives me on told pleasurable food on the plate. And I suppose there's something of this'll mindful I say mindful but I don't feel mindfulness. I mean mindful and much more broad away attention to something we love you put on that dress. And then you put on the skirt and then it's almost like being in trump's because you'll deal it's not an intellectual thing just following the coal of something greater and so. I think the listening to you so yet. Yeah listening to you and you your you putting your self. I were to as I said before. Were to to care for others and for other people I whilst is a wonderful thing when it's to the detriment of yourself then that can cause problems and I I feel that whatever makes you happy because you know if you that whole thing about e can't let yourself. He can't let anybody else What is it ripple says? You can't love yourself. How can anybody else? And I feel that it is about loving yourself before you can give to others are Phoolan. I feel very strongly that we need now more than Ed to be looking after ourselves. An empty back channels. That's beautifully that is true and other pack stand up and that that says if that does have one more thing because at the end of the into what I've been doing I saw myself bullet points of questions I'm going to ask them. People'll ways psychically no. I'm going to well so when I have to ask questions because they've already been there. They've already announced some list. Amazingly I have a question and for you just saw him. Just follow my intuition on. I'm asking people to respond to this world concept fortitude strength foods cheats. It's such an interesting would because there's an assumption is that trump isn't it a strong black woman trump Unfairly is a kind of lift in that in the sense that I it meant that for me for men not telling anybody how you felt apple on act and acting like in a certain way and it wasn't until I became ill and I left teaching in. I was diagnosed anxiety depression. I became vulnerable. That I realized that my my vulnerability was was actually destroyed and actually taking myself into therapy putting myself as meant that. My girls do to could see that I was with looking after which means that they are worth looking after so my strength all this time these he is strength was about almost like physical thing but also act in a certain way. Actually being honest with myself has name means on stronger than I and I feel at Moines most mentally and physically strongest now fifty. Which is it sounds like a bogus thing to say. But it's true because not just because I've come through so much but because I allow myself to to be honest on issue myself on this others. So fortitude chewed. If you'd asked me ten years ago I would have said No. It's about you know standing up and not letting anything get in way not letting any man push around striving for with that kind of stuff but now I would say it's about fortitude is calmness is measured in opposite served and only stay so yeah absolutely beautiful answer. Am I think it's very relevant tonight? Because people are having to face things some ready begum horrifying things and they haven't got the same freedom of distraction as perhaps they did before and people are having to be vulnerable with strangers. Especially if you are in hospital have to be vulnerable. Because there's multiple deaths in this grief and grief is is a vulnerable experience having to to call out to other people's love that there is so I think for myself. I have felt ferry very vulnerable. I thought felt vulnerable before but this is a whole new vulnerable. I lack this is. This is a hole. We're in uncharted territory. Exactly and what you think you going through is not necessarily what you think you going through and when this is okay. As in when lockdown lifts and certain members of society right to go out and that kind of thing. We have no idea how this is going to pan out how it's going to affect us and so we have to tread slowly and mindfully honestly. That's look a year. That was an absolute perfect note to ender. I've added beginning Karen Awesome. I'll got this may be that website. Hi thank you so much. Listen to the show. The wonderful music you can hear is by Geffen Brian. If you like this show please subscribe. There's plenty of emphasis. Listen to passing Neal's stable my love.

Depression Karen instagram US Putin Alba Frederick Albert Frederick High Journal and Journal Shane Arthur Moines Taranov twitter Hatton Central Valley Gavin Moaning Eppie King Lamont Mike Catt
Episode 82: They Call Us The Asian American Film Canon

They Call Us Bruce

1:02:30 hr | 11 months ago

Episode 82: They Call Us The Asian American Film Canon

"Hello and welcome to another addition of call Bruce not filter conversation about what's happening in Asia America and Sunny San Diego. I'm Phil You and I'm Jeff Yang and we're recording here. Live ish a nine. Am Sunday morning Hotel Room location and with a good friend of ours front of the podcast fellow. Member of the POTLUCK. podcast collective. Brian who who's also artistic director director of Pacific Arts Movement the presenters of the San Diego Asian Film Festival and it's The twentieth anniversary of the Film Festival. And we wanted to talk a little bit that but it a lot actually about a project that Brian put together on behalf of Pacific Guards Movement to essentially compile the twenty greatest rapist asia-american films the last twenty years. Why and how and what ended up happening Brian? Welcome to the PODCAST. Thank you for having me well. First of all congratulations to San Diego Asian Film Vessel on its Twentieth Edition This is a perennial favorite of my mind just to visit every year accounted. And I've gone to thirteen. This is my thirteenth of the twenty festivals. Yeah I mean I've I've I've only been working for nine but I like you I used to. I used to live in L. A.. I would drive down to come visit this. This is a big deal. If you're trying to catch up on Asian American films so the so your idea for the for the Asian American Film Canon which is like when you proclaimed something like that. You're kind of putting you kind of put planning a flag and it clearly. It coincides with the twentieth edition of the Festival Where did you get the idea to start doing to put this list together? You know what were your serve considerations of of How you wanted to do it and then did you have in mind things that you who were like this has to get in? Did you put your finger on the scale Well we definitely get into that. We'll talk about the process. Yeah so a a lot of this to happen. Because of last year the cruiser rotations here and a lot of the commentary. People really wanted to give crazy versions. The credited rated deserves of being some kind of monumental achievement at or just like a That things are different now and I totally agree with that sentiment but I I can see. A people are struggling to to identify just kind of I it was. This is the first first Asian American film of since we heard that and then we heard people walk back and they're like. Oh actually it's the first Hollywood Asian American film I A Asian-americans directed film as you get the sense that people wish they knew the history better And so it was really wanting to speak to this moment where people don't usually want to know what the history of anything and now maybe they do and now there's opportunity to fill let in. I think it's fascinating because there was actually a palpable change in the climate and that climate change was that all of a sudden asian-american stories seemed relevant. And even aspirational in the wake of crazy James. But at the same time to your point. It's not like Craig's versions even came out of nowhere. It's not like we came out of nowhere. We've been around for much more than twenty years. It's just that a lot of the films we've made a have kind of gone under the radar and it was sort of startling to me was literally right after cruisers. Asians you actually saw a number of other films that also broke through and even in this case appeared on this list of top twenty greatest films of the last twenty years from our community and the farewell searching. You know these are films that were jesting even before craze rich Asians. So you can't even say that was because of Sierra the happened do you feel like anything has changed just about the creative environment in some fashion that has allowed this. This outburst perhaps of Asian American cinema. I don't know if it's in the creative realm serving the business round people at least now no have words to say that the models to us and say this is something we can actually pursue so you're probably closer to the action than I am being in La but from from where. I'm standing at least in the audiences like they can now point the audiences can point to it and and they have a precedence. And now can say I've I've seen the Asian American before I think this list the list is actually like kind of a a great tribute to the Film Festival Circuit. That we've been part of for tw- like twenty years you know and it it really goes to show like if you pluck if you look at the twenty and then the broader sort of like one hundred that you kind of Parse out you know. I like looking through that list. I'm like why was seen that. That was great. What happened to that movie? You know. There's so many films that like if you didn't if you didn't go to film festival even if you did you might have missed it. You know I think it's a really great tribute to that to that environment. That community that is sort of built up that has gone largely unnoticed. Actually and the now maybe has has a chance to shine a little bit because in the wake of something like crazy Jason Sort of ripping off the the box and sewing like look. This didn't come out of nowhere. It's a history that it gets forgotten because there's nobody. Nobody has a financial stake in keeping the memory of these forms alive. It's like a big studio. Has the right to these films. Wants to put it on. DVD continued to four K.. Restoration make sure it's on all the streaming platforms lobbies films Cam. Produced a play the festival circuit. Hit it hard to change. People's lives at the time and then festivals move onto and so it's real easy to forget the part of it is addressing this fact that why don't don't we have institutions of memory in Asian American media worlds and within whose responsibility is that. I mean possibly it's the film festivals. Normally in the code mainstream it would be critics who are constantly critics love making lists who continually continuously. We say things like the best of the century so I was really like being. I was inspired as a former film critic. Myself by apparatus of criticism. which you don't get get very much an Asian American cinema? I'm back in the day going. GOING TO CAM. Was I felt like it was often just Ada who are going to these festivals to to write reviews twenty people were going there to cover and to do interviews but who is there going. Who is there to draw connections between trends and I was on the East Coast so yeah you can't blame me and so it goes goes like east coast? Scene is a west coast thing. These are all things I was thinking talking about when I was trying to figure out who I wanted to pull. So let's talk about that process. I should note by the way that obviously Phil and I were among the two people among onto of the many people who were asked to contribute to this and we also have roots in in the Asian American Film Festival tradition I worked for Asian division and for many years and they of course put on the Asian American International Film Festival in New York and then fill on the board of the currently on the Board of Visual Visual Communications in Los Angeles. They put on the Los Angeles Asian Pacific Film Festival Plug. I also used to be my. My roots are with the Center for Asian American media. Cam formerly yeah probably not. I mean that's where that's where everything can be gained from you. Actually so this is a big list like this is also a personal. A personal reflection of my own sort of my own is to so given that. How did you actually select who to participate in the survey and why did choose to use critics commentators? Curator's as opposed to say EH opening up to a democratic vote. Yeah Yeah what I wanted to make. Sure the people who are going to vote were the ones who've been watching these foams because plenty of people have seen like five five Asian American films who's going to potentially have seen at least twenty that they love and that they want everyone to see and and suddenly like that list gets very very short and the curator's are the ones who I can definitely trust too. I've seen them all and because it's their drop to. Critics was more challenging but was great was so I I told the critics. You could pick spy films if you want. If if you don't feel comfortable going six to twenty like don't force. It and I was surprised by the many who were actually very fluent in a lot of these these titles but critics curator's I intentionally did not include filmmakers. I just as an observer to the scene as as a non filmmaker I feel like there's a lot of padding on the back in as American films and that's great because we need to support each other and that means a lot But this is a rare opportunity or we can just stick to people who I've had have been allowed to be impartial so I mean I made a couple of exceptions like Valerie. So who is a filmmaker but also has lives as a critic as a scholar But yeah it was really important for me to have people who are somewhat objective. Because it's about quality I want to be about and knowing what's going to be fairly times wanting it to be films that aren't speaking to ourselves about the things that we've loved and we've shared but just like we would I would want to be able to recommend these films to anybody because they are canonical in the sense of these great American films. We should talk about what canonical means. I also want to know why the past twenty years because that for me was a big lake that was a challenge but also like Oh my God like my the best like you know. My like favorites are not I will some arbitrary. I mean somebody also retired to arsenal festival first of all but also just critics thinking decades so twenty eight cents and also the people who have seen like the wash from the eighties. How many people have seen that plus twin sisters? That just really gets down to the number of people I can rely on in fact I was what what I actually saw the submissions from other people who contributed lists. You could definitely see who is a first half of the twentieth person who is the latter half of the twentieth persons even thinking like maybe I should have narrowed it even more but twenty seem like we could find people who were there when that like two thousand and six thousand seven explosion happened. We're still commenting today. I think it's probably worth it for us to actually share. What the top twenty four? Because we're talking a little bit abstractly here and I I think even just sharing the list will both a raise questions and answer some rights and I think go backwards from twenty upwards So the first one I'm gonNA share actually One of the most complicated inclusions. Do you want to go back and forth. Yeah okay all right. So number twenty on the list is the fast and the furious Tokyo drift. Two thousand six. This is I feel like in the reactions to this list. Polish was possibly one of the most divisive things to get on or like just kind of people are like yeah or like what. Let's let's go through the list and then we can hang on some of the The standouts and okay number nineteen is advantageous in two thousand fifteen and then number eighteen is the motel two thousand five number seventeen inbetween days to them. Six Number Sixteen refugee two thousand three number fifteen journey from the fall two thousand six number Fourteen Grace Lee project two thousand five number thirteen searching 2018 number twelve call mother musical two thousand six number eleven. Saving face is two thousand and four number ten. An American revolutionary. The evolution of grisly bogs two thousand thirteen number. Nine the namesake. Two thousand six number eight cook two thousand seventeen number seven columbus two thousand seventeen number six crazy rich Asia. I've never heard of it. Twenty eighteen number five spot night. Twenty sixteen number four in the family twenty eleven number three the farewell all twenty nine thousand nine hundred number two minding the gap twenty eighteen and number one drum roll. Please room better luck tomorrow. Morrow two thousand and two year so one of the things I think that really is is made obvious by that is that this is ultimately a list list of post two thousand films right and it kind of runs the first big EFFLORESCENCE Of Asian American indie feature films right. I mean people talk about the class of ninety seven. That's something we've talked about before so to the to your point. I think that this list automatically cuts off some stuff and even before that films are generally judged to be not just canonical for Asian Americans Arkan's but amongst the class the true classics of Indian Cinema Period. Also those kind of get left off the list. Yeah in thinking about that. I was thinking also just a different production context like what my favorite Asian American films are things like the wedding banquet Mississippi. Masala I'd be like those were produced in very different like financing schemes. Little have these films. Those are firms. That didn't necessarily emerge because of Asian Reagan circuit. I mean mcdaid played asian-american circuit but the always exceptions to what was actually going on. What was actually going on at that time? We're short films. Documentaries films are being made for public television and so the cost ninety seven changed things a lot because it proved that it is possible to make feature films and so yeah well. This is really talking about that. That excitement and like after nineteen ninety seven was gonna always possible now and those energies and of course it's been tomorrow creating a new kind of model at its time and of course we mention China's missing Wayne lungs films. I'm evil of course these are. These are the grits too and and. I hope that people look at this list. Like why did you stop at twenty years and then if that gets them to watch these films even better so I one thing we should also talk about is Criteria for what makes an Asian American because a lot of people I think I think a lot of people they didn't read the intro and they just looked at the list. They were like wait. Where's where's this? Where's my favorite? Oh you know always be. My baby is the one which I think. Probably a fair number people will see as like a weird vacuum until to your point before we started this podcast. It hinders on the question of who is Asian American on some level. Yeah and it's doubt that's a very tricky eh and contentious and unless we were able to ask all these drugs directly like do you identify as Asian American like I mean. We can't really go there exactly exactly. So I just went by how the Asian American movement has historically defined Asian American and South Asian southeast. Asian East Asian So that was is Persian. Yes just person. Yeah but of course there are like Dave Boyle's movies right sex surrogate Valentine. I love these as movies. These movies make me feel live as asian-american in Ada saying my Co conspirator at Saturday school we used to work for Asia Pacific because we used to make these top ten lists every single year of the top ten films directed by Asian Americans and we would go out of our way to identify people like Iraqi this list. Ma Shamlan right films directed by asian-americans not about US Marine subjects. And we would always ask yourself. Are we doing a the the community service by including films like this because we want we want people to know these movies that you may have heard of before withdrawing asian-americans that's really cool but if we included that in this list we run the risk of potentially all like twelve twenty being art like the writer by close l.. Movie I love so. Is that what we want. We want to hear. I have a question on that too. I mean even more speaking about Asian American the American parts support the right. It's always been a bit bit of a question. Mark as to at what point you can define somebody as Asian American in aesthetic in cultural context identity if for instance there an immigrant or recent immigrants. Or if let's say elsewhere North America right and did you actually run into that at all in your criteria. Canadian films that I feel like could've made a lot of people talked about the Canadian question. Part of it was in the very beginning when I was making a ballot. So for those who don't know I made a ballot of about seventy five films and adding to it and I was afraid that would've just aren't that many credible possibilities and and so at that point I was thinking like more up to Canada and realize what this enough in the US and then we can talk about it in the US. Specificity of Dr Ars certain kinds of institutions here that fund Asian American films like him or that's sustain it. There are different financing seems in Canada that make him kind of different. And and also speaking to the fact that asian-americans emerged because of the politics of the United States this is about immigration citizenship and like cities and neighborhoods and so this is like the rare opportunity where we can actually be selective like when I used to do these list. We had to open it up because we didn't feel like we had the privilege. You're being selective now we actually do. So that's why it's critical to include sort of Asian American centered stories. Like fast and furious. Took okay okay. One like authorship matters right so the director needed to be as Justin land. Yeah so the director had to be Asian American who and what we cannot understand as asian-american politically understands as Americans country like the the the main protagonist or whatever of the movie movie had to be also well no not Tokyo drift. Well the first or second everyone had to be said about asian-americans okay. That's that's how I I that's how I define it. Hinging on some candidates will yes on king. I mean without song this movie not meet the list honestly right yeah I mean that's the one that really stands out as should this have been listening to other people raise other questions about what about a a month in wedding and some sort of kind of kind of dice boric and I get it and wedding probably more Asian American in some ways I mean what part of it has to do with like who has agency in the film and ultimately who's WHO's kind of story arc is being told and I don't think as much as I love Sung in anything and I love Justin's work across the board I mean it's probably like his fifth or Sixth Best Anyway Anyway anyways I what I do not include all twenty of these in the half this list came out people can come to me and as if this was my top twenty and and I don't want to disown the list and say like I don't agree with this but as I'm proud of all these elections but certainly like all these qualifications matter entertaining as well and I think Tokyo drift great inclusion on the list is great because of the questions were because of discussion. We're having right now right so fine. And poetically number one number twenty or by the same director so such different modes of filmmaking and that that is office kind of spectrum of like from one to twenty like who can we be. Yeah I yes I hear that I. I do think that it does raise questions that should be asked and answered perhaps or or at least abated. I think in a broader sense though it does point to the to an artifact of methodology which is presumably. You counted votes right and somehow fast furious took your drip with in the top twenty. vote-getters is that. Is that how you know. I didn't doctor any of this. It came down to the very last ballot and because I was I was. I was really rooting for the previous number. Twenty just Ri- Riding Boga was I was born Phil Knight. Nobody even knows. And it's like a true indie like it's so personal experimental. It's about his own upbringing film. That's like not not remembered within any kind of Canon it. Yeah I mean the only reason it's even talks about is 'cause shows in York every once in a while she way Yang Ah Curator and works with the four foundation and used to work at Cam and it to me for a film that was so indeed to be displaced by the ultimate blockbuster Asian American film that was kind of a sad moment but hey that's as proof that I didn't I didn't doctor any of this. That's how it came in so I remember. I was looking at the list when the final list emerged. I remember I was kind of comparing it to my own to the twenty that isolated to you and it was a twenty that I could not not even I could not bear to to rank and that was in the survey the very fact that the list is ranked was also to be like. Oh my God like it stresses me out. Yeah I mean but I'm wondering sort of the I guess I would have to get all the all the other. Curator's the room to ask this. But you know I wanted I. I want to know when to sort of like at least I could ask Jeff. What went into your? You can ask me now yeah. So here's here's I'll share my list. Trey real quickly And I would say they're only five. I think that we're on my list that weren't on the list that came out so better luck. Tomorrow these are or a chronologically. These are not ranked in in order better tomorrow. Saving face the grisly project the motel punching at the Sun did not make new show. I think it definitely deserve it. During attorney from fall children of inventions each on again. Something which I film which. I think definitely deserved inclusion and then Lynch Sanity Right which is the first documentary. Mariama list. I think you know Evan Jackson Leong created. I think it was a definitive moment of documentary capture of a critical pointer winner our history and again not on the list Meets Patel's I will say I was actually kind of a question mark. V under waiting of South Asian filmmakers. I think in the list. And then another documentary. Twisters by Samantha Futterman and Ryan Miyamoto. I thought it was one of the best documentaries of the year. It came out even and then spun night creations minding the gap searching The farewell and then I had four write ins which you know all our our thing films that I think you could actually twist quist stretching different ways right shirkers you know San Anton whose Singaporean who lives in Pasadena has been working in the United States for a while went to school in Columbia. Believe right I mean in New York and then Origin story called Zack. Always remind maybe again that question about Nash. Khan and and then come as you are. Richard One and his coma is on the list right But you know this don't hasn't even distributed been distributed yet but it's been on the festival circuit and I thought it was fantastic. I'm rich were surprised that it was a vote. Because is there still waiting to emerge from twenty nine thousand nine and it also goes to show like the gap between Your World Premiere End when you arrive on the scene but also like the fact that you like. How did you see it like? When did you see? It's what does what does it take to be able to see a film like that. and is that access that everybody house all the contributors. I loved getting the emails from ever contributor. Because I feel like it's so personal right like going through these memories and these movies that define us. I love my list too because it's just it it tells me it's reminder like the journey that I've gone on with Asian American Cinema Yeah so I I love hearing your list and a lot of those were. That didn't make us worse on. Are there any others. That didn't make the list that you included Youtube Phil I Mine of mine that I that you said that you're on your list didn't make us also closely matched mine. Some glaring ones are uh-huh had first person plural which I thought was shouldn't on it The one that I just you just the debut. Yeah I thought it was significant as as a cultural moment for me and then punching at the Sun was also yeah definitely one and children of invention was also one. Those are ones that were I saw on social media. That's some of the filmmakers who you know. They made the top one hundred list but not the top twenty johnny. Yeah they were like Oh so great that I that my film made it into the top one hundred and then I always consoled them a little bit like for what it's worth you know Punching Canoes Pug at the made it was in my top two twenty. Let's close and so all these filmmakers who had their listen in a bigger list. It's not like somebody voted live for them for number forty right like if they were number. Forty that that giant list. It doesn't mean somebody made them forty like somebody put them in their top twenty so these are all top twenty worthy films to somebody. Somebody in that that to me was really special. I I've never divulged my list but I'm happy to do so because I have some of these actually I ranked them again. This is like the obsessed like the critic. Nice I just because eight on the ice to rank films every year and it's just an stupid exercise that critics do if you ask me tomorrow. This'll be completely different. List ranking at least number one from us in the family. Oh number Komo. The musical three refugee for mining the gap five was first person. Plural sixers August August added ky-ko's seven was a film that I was voted for Saigon. Great like personal film about being a Vietnamese refugee gene in a similar vein number eight ninety five and six ago semi experimental documentary at Spun when I joined from Fall Berlow tomorrow crazy rotations. ESPN MENDOZA'S I'm a ghost movie. I love fourteen ahead. I was born butts the farewell punching at the sun searching the flipside regulated. Yeah I had twisters so twenty. I was debating baiting between two American films that I love want Us Ping Pong player but I ended up going with the movie that no movie makes. Excuse like just viscerally. A to my soul excited being asia-american then lend sanity this. I mean it's also like pry beings growing up taiwanese-american man loving basketball so it gets very very personal those shown back anyway. There's something very kind of you know I feel like Ping Pong Playa in its vibe has a very strong kind of sanity adjacent aesthetic in some Wiz I will say go. Play actually holds up a lot better than you think. Might my kids love it like as as just as a film ran into it on one of the streaming platforms and Netflix Netflix. Yeah and You know they they watch multiple times leaders you know so to that point about discovery and access I mean obviously yours is kind of a deep cut list are films that are that I have not only not seen myself but I don't think you can see them anywhere right and I mean. This is the issue that all time during Saturday school like why are we bringing up films from twenty five years ago nobody can actually watch and is it worth our time if we don't do it like no one's ever GonNa talk about these movies. I'd really treated the film this way. I did not make the top twenty films that you can actually watch. Because I mean there's those lists exists but when we get the experts in the room we can the deep cuts really really matter to us because this spirit of Asian American cinema altogether that we have never been the kind of scene where the memory of you will ask forever in the sense of like. No one is distributing movies. That's why we ourselves. No one is calling you great. That's what we have to do it ourselves and that stuff is spur of this list to and it was kind of. I should have anticipated this but the top twenty is very accessible for all films that were either recently they recently came out they have distribution and then like like numbers nine twenty and find these movies his love that about lists. I love that the La Times agreed to publish the entire every vote. Because those are the ones that's really worthy those the gems those are the ones where people are GonNa Watch and say I. I never heard this movie but the speaks directly to why I should watch more. Yeah Yeah that's yeah I think before we move onto our signature segments I that's that's it speaks to actually sort of the changing nature of film on festivals as well I think These gravity air word. I think kind of the height of the Film Festival the Asian American Film Festival Circuit that era. You know that were were. That kind of discovery could happen. Film festivals are a little bit different. Now I feel like There's a d. this way we all just consume movies in general general making it so that you know a film like crazy rich Asians like has to kind of come along and be like a has to do what it does forget anybody but he just unbuttoned seats. You know what I mean what are you what are you sort of see. Where does this reflect kind of the current trend of where things are going? Well I think the trend is not reflected by the list. Yeah because or I. I'm from my Spanish born as somebody who's getting all these emissions. I'm finding that being a feature. Filmmaker is not as cool as being a making getting to television or or or Doing web contents. I mean like making a feature from used to have some kind of glamour. It's like you. You haven't made it until you do that. I don't think new filmmakers necessarily feel like that that is to do and those words at now exactly right and so a lot of that do make it like the Asian American films like didn't need the Asian American Film Festival here like they somehow had direct in to the powers that be like searching for instance like that wasn't one that relied on the part of part of the strategy. Is You WANNA play the Asian American Film Festival circuit arguably you could claim. That one was an Asian Canadian film. You're the only one who's brought that up but all that said yeah. I think it's more than anything else. The existence list forces us to contend with these and I think we should contend with them in maybe a three dimensional fashion in the next segment of our show. All right so Let's take a quick break but one return. We'll do our signature segment the good the the bad and the wgn so stick around break. Hey Brian did you go to Saturday school as a kid. I sure did did you. Totally will our podcasts Saturday school. We don't teach language but we pass along the culture that we do know. And that's as an American pop. Culture eight is a journalist. And I'm a professor and film festival programmer lasts. That's a lot of great Asian American movies and we want you to watch them to some listen to us as we look back at the pioneering films that have led us and we're back right on the second half of the calls Bruce. We're GONNA do the good the bad. WPF Our signature segment. So Jeff Yang. Dan Would you please lay down the rules of engagement. I shall so the good abandoned. WEF is our round table segment where we invite our guests if we have gas Asu today of course to sit in the hot seat and with US discuss a topic. Three different ways The good thing that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside the bad the thing. That kind of horrifies you repulses you frustrates you whatever makes you feel bad and then finally the WTO which is really kind of lingering questions around that topic you're still contending with and given what we've been discussing We thought it'd be kind of an interesting thing to talk about the good the bad and the WPF of having a Canon and part of the reason this comes up because realistically speaking We've been kind of contending with the idea of cannon right that the the very existence of cannon Kennedy in the past is part of what has suppressed repressed outside People like Asian American indie filmmakers filmmakers for so many years so does it make sense for us to actually create one of our own. And so how does that change a relationship with whatever the mainstream perceives Buchanan and we always again kick things off with our guest at talking about this So Brian. Let's talk about the good. I the good of having I can't what is good about having a cannon I I think people accounts are important because the way people google right when you go online you research. You've inkling your head. I want some Asian American films. So I'm just GonNa Start Best Asian American films and what. I actually searched that before this came out and compared with what happened after like before. You get these assorted list personalist. Clearly they didn't do a ton research. They're just like these movies. It's great like these movies. Those lists are are wonderful but now you have this authoritative list and can honestly is also about some kind of authority and and I think the reader of. Oh who's googling. They want some authority like they don't want us to be a random person who got an access to a blogger or something like that. Yeah but there's something about the La Times like the kind of Gravitas that comes along with that and and so as a consumer guide and consumers is that such a guy to somebody who's exploring a roadmap this is really important because the mainstream has tons of these sort of apparatus is like a vise top one hundred list of the best American films or the Oscars and every critic has a top ten list of the year and those are very helpful can obviously debate them but as a way to remember as a way to seek out these. These are important critical. Cool tools that we have in the NFL's and I just wanted to give that to warn people who've presents. I want to know more. And how can I find out more for you. Make a good case there I'll go next fill so I think there is a ah the dimension of having a cannon and you know let's just defined cannon as a A library lists Bookshelf Alf a compendium of works that are judged to be the foundational works. The critical works that you need to actually engage with in order to actually fully be part of have a larger cultural dialogue within a particular system. Right so to me. I think it's less the cannon itself than contending with the Cannon Right the value. Even of the great books cannons isn't so much like. Oh you know everybody should read these and only read these. Although I think that's how Western civilization cannons tend to be seen as But rather once we know that these are the ones. Everything's are the quote unquote mainstream the essentials essentials then. We can go do other stuff we can either interpret or reinterpret or disrupt this Canon rejected or be inspired by various ways. And do something something where we're again in conversation with the cannon and I think that's that's kind of when when we're talking about it What we wanted wanted to emphasize that this shouldn't be about as much as we joke about like? Our Canon Index are Asian Markham Canada. I've seen fifteen other top twenty. I think Phil's like Eighteen Yup and you're twenty I'm at the Yes okay That's that's all well and good but at the end the day. I think it's not how many of these you've seen even the top one hundred that you've seen but whether or not what you're seeing tomorrow you're aware of the fact that it actually sits in relationship to something has gone before for that. There is in your head in your heart in your eyeballs as a viewer you're watching something and realizing that there were other inspirations fans or even other works that are in the system of the category of the idea of the thing that you're watching we'll said yeah For me I think I think back to one where When the list was first published and a lot of comments is seen were just like oh I didn't know there? There were twenty two could even compile twenty-four. Listen I'm like wow like you know that that right very loans speaks to why this sort of at least something something. A reference needs to exist for people who are like for people who thought crazy Richardson's was the beginning of like you know what I mean. Who'd never would legitimately never seen what we call an Asian American film until crazier Jason's came to theaters? And I'm like that is really sad. So yes something like this just as a beginning reference boy as much as you want a debate sort of number two to three fifteen twenty At the very least you have this solid group of twenty that are like you might not like all of them. I'm but like they had the wholesome significant to that. And that's great. I think what you're saying. I mean Google La Google ability of list like this but for me also also. It's just having that stamp of being like we. We have made been making a a cultural impact. You just didn't know how like you can feel that impacted by circling some stuff on this list. If I could add another good which would I mean? This was not a reason I did this. But the filmmakers themselves we're posting the list and you could tell like they have not thought about their own movie for a long time because they moved on and and part of the sad thing but if you look at a lot more first time films and by filmmakers who haven't really gone on to make more Asian American films like sort of Segue into other kinds of careers and then for them to remember that like what they did mattered back when they were in in their twenties. And that just did. Because they've had to. This is their passion and that that can be canonized as well and I I think for them it actually actually it was very very meaningful. I think that's a good point. I mean again. None of this is in a vacuum right of viewers. Filmmakers critics curator's But now let's go back around and do the second round and Phil We'll we'll go you and then Brian and I'll take the the clean up on this leg. What's the bad? What is the bad of having a Canon? I think the fact that there has. I'm speaking in terms of like feelings. We'll get hurt and people you know like some people will get love or even like for me. The part the hard part the hard part when I submitted my list you was like. Here's my top twenty. I refuse to rank it Brian. I cannot just cannot do it you know. And it's not because I don't think it because I don't have preferences of one is better than the other but this is like in the and is like what are we judging like if we're judging films against each other in terms of like what gets number two or three what is that criteria and I just the India has just got and I'm that's not good enough for me to to commit to paper like so. The twenty is a solid great list. That will be for me all them. We'll just be number one and I don't mean that ever since of like fair play like that but it's like I just feel like it's really hard to judge like film that came out. Say in two thousand two versus a from the Komo twenty nine thousand nine hundred in just in all those contexts you know so the the ranking of it makes me feel like just makes you feel weird. Yeah because not. Most people aren't wired to think in terms in terms of ranking just like just like in the former film critic and somebody who's like reading Roger Hubert's top ten lists every year. That's just kinda how I'm wired. I made a point to like everybody who was invited to contribute. You can rank it or not it. Some people have lived like poorly ranked the top five ranked and everything else is not ranked and I had a I had a spreadsheet for every possible of emission and it was just really cool to see people grapple with like how they want to value or or go there actually that brings up a question then for people who ranked and people didn't did you score their their their submissions different. WHOA here's here's the methodology a person who submitted a list of twenty but Amarah was ranked or not they have the same number of points that they can and put in? And then so if you did twenty unranked I would just all get the same number of points which is the average of them so if a ranked list would be like number one. We've got twenty points the number to get nineteen point CETERA. The average will be ten. If you did a list of twenty ten point five would be the exact me in writing the average so then if you did on reckless every film would have gotten a ten point five if you did. If you just admitted eight films you would be like twenty points for number one thousand nine hundred and we'll just go down to date so you don't have as many points to to give out and then I would and if you did it on rings of Eight films I would have averaged that. It was a very complicated math in this this well yeah I I would say if I had known that was the system. I probably would've done different if only because You know and this is part part of the larger question around around systems voting slash election etc ranked choice versus majority rules. Or whatever I think it actually should and does change your are your strategy because I think if you only listen one and that one got twenty points. Almost depending on how many people are actually participating sending the poll probably would end up automatically on the top twenty list right. I think if it was there anybody who's number one who didn't know everyone's number one made the list list but only because more than one person voted for it. If I were to say something those a an extreme outlier right and just that is my only pick. Even I at some point you'd be like bullshit they wouldn't have made. It wouldn't have made it all right. Brian the bad the bad I mean I also believe leave cannons or bad this. We're all here because within cans are bad asian-americans cinema exists to show that Hollywood. You're not doing your job. Differ we have to create our own. So why why are we using the system of the oppressor to to defend ourselves. And I think thinks like this are going to be designed to the best asian-americans the position mechanisms off short films. Experimental films that were are not eligible for this list at all and and for me it was it came down to. I don't believe most people have seen trump's Asia Americans so that would not have been a meaningful in addition to this. I mean every come like for me like reenter series. History memory would have been like possibly by number one from nineteen ninety force. You wouldn't have become much. But the fact that we're not include short films is also like would defining film again the way the oppressor of defiance films and and so I hate that about our list but the starting point and it's still it's is still useful. I'd rather nothing about this as really the top twenty Asian American films but really. It's like this this is this. How invitation to talk about asian-american phone so I think that's my bad really? It's the tyranny of definition. Right that once you ask you to find something and once you try to include something you're also by nature excluding things right so it's not the top twenty or even the top one hundred. That is the issue. It's one O one zero two zero three. The the things that were left off the list that ended up being more of a question. Mark Right especially when you start looking at things which weren't even contention because of how we actually end up defining what cannon is and who belongs to it to your point short films why are they not analysts. You know. Why weren't there you know? Why wasn't there greater representation among Certain ethnicity a certain certain cultural contexts is their gender ring. Is there a class divide. Is there even even within the context of WHO GETS to be in festivals and therefore seen you know maybe there is maybe the great American films something that has only been shown in a classroom somewhere and you know by somebody who made one film and then disappear. It's it's it's challenging and unless we do see it as a conversation or as a means to engender debates. I think it's a it's it is hugely problematic I do feel like The problem with with Cannon Kennedy General is that once you create it it doesn't go away and the Google ability thing right so now people will turn to this and and they will miss defined this as the best twenty eight American films ever right. They'll forget that there's eighty more behind it in the top one hundred list. They'll forget their films before two thousand and you know I Guess Nineteen Ninety nine right and that's kind of rough to me. So let's do the last round. I guess we're GonNa land on you Brian for the final. So do you want to start off with the WPF felt yeah. Let me think here. I think the the biggest for me probably would be the the looting of the twenty years I think we there. There's another project somewhere out there that Brian you feel three to take on or someone braver of one that goes back even further to even the beginning of Asian American I. It's it's it's WPRO project that is worthwhile. Think exploring like this is a nice little taste of this. Twenty list is a nice little taste of like how it can be done in the considerations that we have to grapple with the larger one that goes back even further history the movements Documenting that like or even just in Hollywood or whatever like all that stuff is i. Think worth exploring To larger listed goes back throughout our history bright so of all time of all not just twenty years right so Szeswith Haya Kawhi anime want yeah action or even. So here's my okay this is this is my wf What are the top one hundred pieces of content that you need to know? They really as an Asian American Eric so it would be so much more ambitious but like feature films short films books documentary like books. Let's let's let's just to media. Let's just screen we media right so television youtube clips. I'm serious about that like just youtube clips music videos music videos. Yeah like commercials Commercials Yeah Yeah absolutely What are like it and not necessarily things that we hold up as great but something that is culturally significant or even like kind of bad like like something like say Long Duck Dong like people always reference that but you should watch that to see how bad that is? You know what I mean or Or is it's not bad so maybe some kind of more ambitious thing that is not just a single piece of of a feature film but like just an education I think talking about education now I think some Asian reckon blog could probably be all right. So here's my WPF. And I think my deputy f really is around the calibration of how you you define the adjective associate with list. Right when we say best what does best mean and especially when really what we mean by best is like most influential perhaps right. Because it's not a it's not necessarily I think in the minds of most people will participate in this or even read this going to be associated with quality quality especially a ranked list right. I think that you run into some crazy making territory when you know you have a list list and then you have to decide whether or not is going to be a list of these are the best for me critical reflective these are the most impactful from a cultural perspective. Active these are the most successful commercial perspective. And I think for Asian Americans where to your point. I think Brian. You can't really compare a half these films on this list with half the other films. That's that's You know it's a giant W Yeah and I actually was hoping that's the contributors would use the idea of best in as Corkwood film quality. A lot of people who I invited. Maybe they've I mean they've been watching someone's but they may not they're not so insiders more insiders so the big film that a Lotta people would mention like why isn't is the debut this like huge huge cultural splash the few Filipino Americans. At the time who have not seen the film I mean I just personally. I don't think that's one of the best in in terms of like the filmmaking and just how it made me feel like clearly cultural impact but I liked that people were click grappling with the distinction extinction of at some point. Maybe step back and say what are the ones I think are best made that like the storytelling the characters cinematic nece the direction and to use that criteria. But yeah but I. I don't know if I don't think I really defined how how I walked out. I wanted to do best in when I solicited these Contributions so it's great to hear was in your head all this I think like I said it would have been nice to get all the all the list makers in a room together to debate Beta that would have been nice but it would have been it would have been super interesting interesting. Yeah I reminds me of my story where he Who Movies We did a couple of days called the one hundred movies to see before you died And it was very It was like I mean it was drew from all of cinema in and We did even smaller versions of that. Like the past. Twenty years or documentaries or Comedies that but those were the funnest times the hat working at Yahoo like honestly like six or seven of us in a row like in a room like in a conference room with a whiteboard just beating one number one number two and like it would have been some versions. That would have been kind of fun with these other curator's luckily this is the life to have as a current phone festival. Like being in a room and we know these are the ones that should go in. Yeah going yeah very cool. I mean to that point. Actually I think one of the things if La Times would've allowed you to get some transparency into who contributed and what their definitions. Were you know in terms of explaining why they chose knows what have been really helpful. Well I think some of the key contributors wanted to. I mean they made a point they salami like. Don't ever publish my list. And I I'm I totally get it because because this this the scene is very like we support each other. We don't want somebody to know that I didn't include there on on my own personal list. The deal some being anonymous is that was special thing that they can be more honest with allow them to be honest. That's true true. That's true okay so Brian what about you. Let's clean it up and take it home I mean I was dreading the week before this list came. Ah I wake up and stick it out yet. The happen because I was terrified. Because I know Asian American. Like we're really good at like nick breaking down cannons breaking down this like this. We train ourselves. We give ourselves the critical language to say talk about representation. This list is also about representation station and lack of representation we did. We did everything we could to get. parodying gender therapy. For for the people we solicited AH contributions from but when I saw that final ranking and there's so many Chinese and Japanese people and Korean people on this list we mentioned South Asia but also Southeast Asian is not represented very well on this list and really had reflect on like how why is that is it has what does that do with Jeff as you were saying. Like how what. What's films deformed buster deals and therefore have a initial platform to begin with and for so for me the WTO is? It was really hard to find critics curator's who've been around for twenty years. Who aren't Chinese Japanese Korean and so it made me wonder like twenty to be expanding ending the definition of who counts as a critic commentator curator And so I did stretch a little bit but so so so it comes down to. How can we better support critics and curator's and and get more diversity on the initial level and so this this experience and love criticism that the Lescot the biggest reminder that we need to support ourselves in on all levels not just in terms of the camera? But who's got who's allowed to talk about these films it who's allowed to have talked about the importance as memory as as canonical. I hope that that becomes an ongoing question that it gets that we we actually are dressing. Well said very cool Brian. I want to salute you. General for for just taking this on as a project. It's like we all know like wasn't easy. It was also probably pretty fun but also like Kinda stressful and I mean and for the most part the reactions to list I saw people mostly positive and people saying like dude too solid. You know this is all list and I think we should be. You should be proud of the list of the project and we should be proud as you know as people who witnessed this cinema in the last twenty years. You know what I want I want to give props to the La Times to uh-huh yeah. They did not have to do this. I've just reached out to Justin. Chang was a friend of mine and I used to be the head. Kurd from critic for variety now he's had from critic the La Early Times. He was somebody. I WANNA shout anyways. Because his opinion I want to see his list and told them I'm GONNA shop this around but if the La Times has interested let me know he said all right. I'm you talked to. Some people and happens is awesome. Yeah so so. That's what I I mean like. You need to have critics in mainstream spaces non-mainstream spaces. They're the ones who can make something like this even possible and Obviously it it does take a certain amount of leadership not just from the perspective of somebody organized this but also people who are actually constructing the architecture around film festivals. The like you know we've mentioned The we've mentioned Asian Cinema Vision we've mentioned Cam. And many many many other obviously Pacific Arts Movement many other film festivals across the nation which actually providing an opportunity however narrow for people to actually get into films that will enter this cannon. And I think we'd be remiss without thinking our hosts right and That would be not just Pacific Arts Movement but Some of the leaders behind it Leeann Kim Dr Chung who over twenty years now of this history over two decades building this have created something that serves as a continuing institution and for people to have access to Asian American media. Thank you guys. Yeah thank you and all organized around the country like Boston Philadelphia. Toronto Austin. Yeah all right well this. That doesn't for this episode of they call spruce. WanNa thank our guests. Brian who Brian. How can people find you online? Mine I don't do too much online. I hopefully. If this topic is of interest suplicy check out our podcast Saturday school co host. This with Ada saying yeah. We go way back covering Asian American cinema and this is a podcast where we just. We just picked some of our favorites from the history of Asian American cinema and talk about it also find me just sanitation film festival. I'm also a professor at the university so his whole scholars out of a book outs us. Otherwise find me on social media whose brain H USB are an alright Jeff Yang. How can people find you online? I am Original all spin pretty much everywhere but especially twitter and and You know as we actually Sign off here I do WanNa. Let's say that we're recording this on the backs of a week which was kind of a monumental one for me and my family my son Hudson Yang As we say goodbye to another non cinematic work of asian-american Kennedy fresh off the boat. This last season looks like like we have an you know about eleven episodes. I think still to go before he gets home going But you know personally. I want to thank everybody associated with this project and all that it has done to open doors even for things like crazy right so You know bless all view and personally from my perspective thank you thank you deeply on that note. I somebody who's kind of had a fairly close seat to all of that from beginning to now it's been it's been really great to see that journey and the communities formed around actually the relations. I I've been able to make Because of that and especially with you jeff fresh off the boat will be. I consider like a kind of a pretty big deal in our in our friendship. Our relationship actually. So yeah I just wanted to echo that and you know the show finale will be in February so we still a little bit of time and we do you. We'll we'll I think we can say now that we will probably dedicate more time on this show too for the reflection and give it a proper sendoff though ahead of number twenty one. Yeah Yeah last episode. How do people find you? Oh Yeah you can find me at angry man and on angry Asia Dot Com. Well that does it for this episode. Please find us at they. Call Bruce. Fight US on on all social media. Find US on Apple podcasts. It gives us rating review. I say this every week but we really do appreciate appreciate it. Yeah that does thank you so much Brian. Thank you San Diego Asian Film Festival. Thank you to the top twenty as American films the last twenty years until next time. You've been listening to they. Call US Bruce with Jeff Yang and Phil you. Our theme music is by our producer. Is Nick Song they call us. Bruce's a member of the potluck. podcast collective between unique voices and stories from the Asian American community. Find out more at podcasts. POTLUCK DOT COM and thanks for listening

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39. The Two of Us SHORTS with Antonio Mattesini

The Two Of Us

26:23 min | 5 months ago

39. The Two of Us SHORTS with Antonio Mattesini

"You rebels radio presents. The two of US shorts with Naomi Watterson Alber Frederick High. This is naming lettuce. Welcome to the US Charts Myself Alba freshdirect talking to people across the globe about that pandemic on its relationship to creativity. Mental health emotional wellbeing and as always. I'd like to get a trigger warning. These adult shows the themes will be complex and interesting. And maybe at sometimes be triggering. If you're over ten the disposition today put this on pause and vote market for later saw otherwise die right. We are into the second month of lockdown head and okay so we are into the second month of lockdown and a Gobi. Honest with you. If we were having this conversation a week ago things would be a lot different. I think you would have found us a lot more Brian. Shiny in happy and easy going but as it's kind of clicked token to the second month. Psychologically Things Change Change. The law and people narrow really frustrated really fed up and We just have to go through the motions now. And how you failing Lucas Eric. Kennedy Sell Friends Toll. Toll to your friends guy. Then I have fanned blood. Basically one person one cannot may be too so. I mean it's tough. He's he's got to the point where he's beginning Ovalles Aussie friends would kids. Roskin the same thing because What they used to and that's what they should be. Luckily Lucas has access to gone. When he's with his mom and the next door neighbor they can play as offensive. Tweeden these by today house an run guts Edwards houses. Well yeah but in in all honesty he shouldn't be going to anybody else's house by the decree of the lawyer in Italy. He should not be going anywhere is it? Is it guidance? Now it's a little decree it's A. It's a legal decree Ya. Because here the government had the patch to that An signed off by Giuseppe contact. Who's basically the prime minister of the country applies to the whole country not just certain regions different in America. The states can run models it's been a federal mandate ahead is one little fits all. Yeah so basically. We should be going two hundred meters from the house. And that's it. There is a difference thug for separated couples. Now Fall into that category so we can go between my house and his mum's house by us. They can play in the gun talk. How are you coping land? So so T- take exercise until I mean you're talking about me personally. Yeah Yeah I mean to to be honest with you exercise. Yeah I mean it's unusual but I think that will is gradually going. I think at the beginning it was a lot of you know people looking exercise videos nominated change my life. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that but now it's tailed off the balcony singing. The balcony killing music stops jamming. People like everybody's in this kind of like hazy anticipation of lockdown at some in some distant future And this is the problem. So it's it does eat away. Your will dual these things. You have a structure and your data so we have a structure in the day which is yes catrine. No the answer is we need to have a structure. He definitely needs to have structure side. I have to admit that he and I all extremely lazy. We don't want to get up early in the morning to and so it's basically you know morning stuff is offering easy afternoon is like homework but we go out. I mean he's his scooter. So we got into scuba. You know as much as we can do but you can't go that far away. No two hundred meters from the House and is the is the most about the amount of time you can go out for if I'm incredibly. It's an hour old toad is an Almanac because yeah are the number of debts. Reseda knows this fake thing but you can exercise once a day if I decide to run a marathon not a woods all day and that protect me for hours but I would just be at once today though it's quite it is quite vague This weekend is hawes because it's It's wool on his weekend and that was out so early this morning. Because I've been doing this for two months because of non-serbian rebellion eventful Ivan. Taza five thirty in the morning. I'm still so painful. Take the mosques really now depicted messanger mosques that make a difference. Which actually subtext is they happened. We haven't even got the frontline workers side. Can you not years the mosques yet? But the thing is you remember your about two weeks behind us. We've gone through these these kind of issues. We we have the same thing. The first degree about going out and exercising was very very ambiguous and a lot of people didn't know who Houten superjet whilst others into it in a very selfish wipe. It's the personal. Why the suit? Then so all of the sudden have people all over the place running here running their walking and it wasn't working so the would have to be changed and we also have self-certification which means if you go out you have to carry with you a certificate which is issued by the Ministry of the Interior. Here saying who. You are old age Phone number email address Identity Card number as we will have identity cards here and it's up to them and that has to be written has been written down what you're doing so I am going to do shopping. I am going to see My separate has to be written down. And if you'll still at the police checks and they will call who you're going to or they will cool you'll a Whatever they'll cool they'll make that call and they'll find out if you telling the truth or not. Now if you're not telling the truth and the sanctions on now. I think they start at three hundred euros and go to Renaissance. But some yet so. It's money that people don't WanNa be spending right now. You were head of you also. You're ahead of us I mean because they have the the balcony singing and we haven't had the balcony semi every we have the bumps awake at night chess people in pans. But we have. I don't really know because I haven't been out. Today was the first time I'd actually be not rule woke for a month so I don't really now what's happening outside saying a nine so gathering Information Plaza News. I'm bisexual may on trying to flow slows to streams of information together on the gentle ways match. So I don't know how how good that is familiar from my mental health. Either way because I get the so tragic tales and I feel very powerless very scarce or I get social media. They'd rather be but is Mike. King Fab the On smiles had been credibly Because I have lenten you skip. Yeah I think there's a medium why because I haven't learned a new skill either I haven't tuned into that kind of wool Become a scuba diver or whatever but the have used that's on how to use the tons basically cancelled things down. I mean council my mortgage for Star Because it's difficult because I love my wook so all the kind of structural stuff did I and now. I have a little bit more time yet to read some books and watch the movies. I haven't seen the honestly you know. How many days do I really wanted to that? And the other thing is I really feel that we all of a sudden looking at our reality. Our real normal life strip down to the bone. We don't really like it because we live for the diversions. We like the ability. If you wanted to meet someone drink them. Go send him out of the restaurant which would die verse. Define your life now. We're looking at Plain ordinary lives. And it's Li- who could be fun so end. Tom's of like if it could be more fun on my website. How how many books? I'm foams can you read as dial of Of Keeping yourself busy and occupies? What else do you do? Do you do any CREIGHTON? Heavy develop some comrie flag or do just sitting guys Rwanda remember these tasks we did something Lucas. We started a project with was get kids to drool what they saw out of the window and then take a picture of it and send twelve and we put it on the website so we started doing that and then other videos. I mean we do stuff together. So we'd video free to broken English which we could share with his classmates. Because obviously nobody's at school so they're all kind of having to learn on their own. We get set the homework by the other teachers. But it's it's not very clear what we have to do. Most of my Thomas Ben to So he has daily stuff yes to do And then when he's not with me then yeah. I have a little bit more time to organize things like a new of him. Did a photo book Lucas from to four years. Ford Sixty. It's like everything revolves around him. He's The Sun at the center of my universe. Bicycling so I'm using this time to focus on him and that keeps me. Also it's I think. Pope Relief both of you. That surreal investment in the future as well agree on a possible future and the at the same time and you know what? I'm hearing from people who don't have the situation who live on their own. It's very very very tough. And and you know I've a friend in spine to today whose owner on. She's in her apartment on her own and she's saying same thing into the second month. Now it's line another fifteen nines of twenty days we don't know and that's when it becomes very difficult because you feel lonely you daddy feel late and you don't know basically who to listen to all the time you know because who's reliability is very difficult situation. I appreciate just being able to. She is because the same to me. I'm with Lucas the whole time so when I'm not with him it is like the hours They become a very very long you. It's much much more and that in those months. And you're I I you more focused on the external realities of what's happening on the dynamic. You think yes and no because I do. I do focus on it I also. I don't want it to be like what's in my head. The whole time is right so you the beginning. Yeah I was. At the beginning I was a little bit of each bishop added locking people. I think we didn't realize what was coming and then when I realize was about to hit and what did it. Yeah that was very worrying and then I couldn't sleep and I don't WanNa Milk Sleep. I WanNa sleep so ah trying just face Abbott. I read the news. Listen I try to inform myself. A swaps coming on but at the same time. I don't want it to be defining of my diet. My whole day is coded nineteen promoting night. Yeah because yeah exactly otherwise. It's it's just too much so I think you know it's balanced. It's GonNa hit a balance so I can live a decent life in context of what's going on and I think you know relationship to on a your your your your body or health has changed. I lots of different ways motel. Let's see you know the fragility of the Human Balti- And also just on a personal vices lot. Where mine's going. You know what used to be so yeah. I'm very much aware of that. I'm very much web. Eat now and you know trying to find us healthier and all the rest. I am but old habits. Die Hard to be honest. Old Habits die hard. One thing I haven't done is actually turn to alcohol as a kind of social stress reliever which would have been easy to do. I think just on the best move ice says you know. I haven't been drinking loads of bays or getting also chantey down one can stuff like that Because I'm a responsible father pie because not where I wanna God so in coming on the opposite direction so yes. There is more emphasis emphasis on the body on the south own. How long were on the planet? Four especially as his stories from friends who have Have Their friends in In Hospital head about From a friend tonight line someone who die from cozy pointing. So it's it's trying to come close. Ally signed a few people who had a daringly. The people had a healthy and not lie. Worry about myself. Because I'M GONNA compromised immune system and lime say to able that while started isolation Is because lime disease? And that's attorney Kit by unless radically changed my life so I know how. A small micro organism has a huge power so that gave me horrible advantage in knowing involving. How severe this could be. 'cause I an embodied experience of already I think I'm my whole experience has been like this. Increased sense of my own vulnerability tape within the APP. I'm bleeding very very scared at times. And the I know the paper has had the papal who've been L. run good friends of mine. And she's like twenty years younger. I met how a few years ago at Hampstead ladies to spend that every day that all year round and then she's traveled to let the I mean she's strong and healthy anti still not well. This is three weeks later. Undistributed Marin are so much she has to take him. Asmara Halo antiquated since I had lobster told. I can't I'm time unless she's got this bump up in people underestimated even if they get through. The Post spirals the tape of when you've gone through suction illness you don't bounce back. Yeah I mean I don't have that so they have people who really close to me. I heard you of some time your friend and realized that. I'm kind of lucky because I don't have major underlying health issues but you've got to be careful because we didn't even something that is is it's it's easy to take out relatively easy. Let's face it if if we're not careful mainly as others careful and that's my whole worry. It's not me so much as other people's live in how they deal with it because not everyone is as apple. Sorry you've basically been hung. Hope time you know on but because the guard and begun yesterday flat surrounding us. I'm the idea now. They did a thing. Mit thing how cops in sneezes contributor coughs NASA's out the big ones obviously because very powerful but cause some travel about twenty five eight and some busy on the other side. A window was coughing. I was in the garden sunlight. I'm trying to tout like the amount of faith. I'm hope to under the BED K. Yet style who'd because that again is a lack of respect for other people when you do that you know. It really doesn't matter if ill or no. It's the fact that they're even doing that. And not thinking that makes honest with you. We went mosques and flops when we go out to everyone not nothing might not add nothing. I'm not a friend of mine that go an extremely vulnerable group of people on that people perhaps have organ transplants and the Friends of mine had an all new wife you had to. But she was very At the Macy's has a liver transplant. And she is. What school shielding so. She's not allowed out anyway twelve weeks. She's on her own. And she's his death Low from meditation of the extra she today during meditation and Yoga. But she says the She's okay in the mornings time they option incomes. Things Stop the intricate. She just has to get through. The afternoon is difficult. will get yesterday Lucas. Give an example of what we did yesterday Ooh. Ibm B. M. O. Seven a super competitive Imply will what you fashion Not In any Glen Run TINA. He went to the supermarket and That he's in a mosque in clubs because I told him not to touch anything but quite rodney they said puts gloves on. Well distinct because you never know but there Ryan so. That's that's the way it is now. It's not actually a law that you have to do that. I think is just common sense now. Everywhere you go. It's like mosques and gloves and I think that should be the minimum minimum standard. 'cause it's just yeah. I think Do feel safer and we respect the distance here as well you have to remember. We're in the northeast of insulin. It is kind of fullest. Rules is very kind of ten attentive to details that everybody keeps to me. His woke inside anyone who steps After admit somebody stepped right next me as the outside the lines the supermarket and I gave him a look as was the problem. Because you should know this so yeah there is attention to detail here whereas in other than England how that's working this is all. I was Goin' mosques. Gloves people out. Getting around the parks they failed. It's terrible if your frontline worker. Because he didn't quit can is not my hair. It's really unsafe and its might man. It will carry on for a lot longer that way as well you know. It's it's an absolute nightmare. I'm by say in our And we go out really early but I was at. This guy was coughing. Annette. Slide Now I don't know if I've lost. It could mean it would be the end mom and it could be the end of May that system and hey people around that got their windows because it's woman you just had this up this crowd of cops site. I never know Nudie not good us not good. Hey where we all like. I see one two people each day from and stuff. We never say to each other. Because that's not the vibe here. People keep very much themselves An item hit anyone coughing whatsoever Where we just outside of Hada which is northeast Italy about an hour from Denny's luckily it hasn't I think that's being maybe one case of someone who is suspected to have vars but apart from that nothing With our lucky. But I still like I I. I feel kind of like Saif or anything like that. We'll take precautions and stuff on the whole. It's okay. The other parts of its edgy. No watch was much much less especially around land whole area that has the highest transmission rights on his death toll and everything and the the cubs doughnut. Ready flattening soaking with We go past the peak will Miami. That may be so but they're still over six hundred people dying day. It's a lot of people in nine thousand nine. I have a think we hit those heights. So yeah it. It's scary. It's going pretty will go down but it needs everybody on their own message while how I'm going to find message. I'm going to go navy to its celebrations and his son much to this. It's good to hear. Both sides is good to talk to. You. It's could say it's lines well. Even old was it does alike. We're not in it together but we are in it to Abbas also People's expense very different. Yeah I told you we are together all of us you know. I'm not really that much interested in Italy versus England. The states this is GonNa Care About. Its humanity that humanity. Anyway we'RE GONNA go. We've got what you want to prosecute. Why WanNa Pasco Happy Easter? It's the tape and big hug was to you know me become humbled spot I think he's so much in this. Show the wonderful music. You can have as by Gavin O'Brien if you like the show please subscribe. There's plenty of episodes listen to the good news stable

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Episode 85: They Call Us Destin Daniel Cretton

They Call Us Bruce

29:53 min | 9 months ago

Episode 85: They Call Us Destin Daniel Cretton

"Hello and welcome to another edition of they call spruce and unfiltered conversation about what's happening in Asia America. I feel you Jeff Yang and we're here with a very special guest a filmmaker crater of note storyteller of many things including a certain upcoming superhero movie. But we are not GonNa talk about that Superhero movie. We're GONNA be talking today about a real life superhero movie His film just mercy which is coming out from Warner brothers. In Limited release in December December twenty fifth. I believe and wide in January January tenth. It is the story of Bryan Stevenson. Anson the founder of the Equal Justice Initiative which is a critical nonprofit organizations that advocates for death. Row inmates providing them many cases a gasp of hope before the the actual kind of Mon execution occurs in the context of that Destin tells the story of how Brian Created this organization and some notable first cases that it that led to the organizations becoming a pillar of this particular movement so destin first of all welcome welcome to the show. It's great to be here so we want to start with a little bit with some of your background. I guess you're from Hawaii originally right. Yeah I grew up in Hawaii. And how did you actually embrace still making as a career. It was a it was along the long road to getting to the place where I actually admitted that I was embracing it as a career I I grew up. There is six kids in my fam family. We lived in a small town on Maui called Haiku Right next to a huge pineapple apple field. And we we we. My mom barely let us watch TV. So we're always outside kind of forced us to have to do creative things things and when my my grandma got her first. VHS camera that that she allowed me to borrow That that became kind of the thing that that I would do to pass. The time was make little commercials and short films with my five siblings things as my actors and so from an early age. I knew that I loved it. Loved the process And and so it was a hobby of mine All the way through college. I didn't I didn't go to film school. I got a degree in communications. And it wasn't like 'til my senior year that I did my first short film and then just kept doing short films for fun for about ten years. And eventually it snowballed Walden started to turn into something that I made money out. The short shorts got less short so it was that short film. The one that actually Connected with Brie Larson or was that that I short film without later one short term twelve was was was was a short. It was actually my eighth short film Every other show had been rejected from sundown and short-term twelve is the first time that but I got the call from Sundance saying that we're we got in and then The stars aligned and ended up winning the jury prize at Sundance Site Year And that that was like a big first stepping stone into being able to do this as a job. The film that got the feature that got everyone sort of noticed that. Notice you in a lot of people's minds was was the future for short-term twelve and I look really revisit just looked at the the credits for that film and I was like stunned to see all these young actors. There's who are now like huge stars sort of planning their seeds there. I was wondering like when you look back at that. Like what is your impression of their careers. Your career now like looking looking at all that it seeing like wow. I really had an eye for talent. I don't really see see it that way I I just see as Wow it's so cool to see my friends being doing what they love. And being so successful at it I Yeah I mean I feel really really kind of grateful to that Our our little group has all kind of gone on to do such extraordinary things. It's it's really cool so One of the screwing things. The one we're going to talk about today is is of course this film just mercy and we saw it like I mentioned to you before stories started taping last night at the screening. I was so moved that I actually donated to equal justice initiative before I left the theater I I was struck by how necessary the film was the the story was telling and the work of equal justice initiative in an era where feels increasingly like people of Color immigrants Poor people live under a different system. Like like a different set of laws than people who have more and who have the power to and resources to fight fight back. What what it drew you to the story initially? And how did you actually connect with it. Thank you for donating TJ. Let's a a- and and your reaction is really what we hope. This movie does is introduce people to the amazing work that Brian has has been consistently doing back when you wasn't a hot topic when it was actually it almost looked down upon to to be doing the work that he's doing It's it's the way that the Brian puts it as the our our system. Treats you better if you are rich and guilty than if you are poor innocent And and that is just Incredibly sad but the thing about Brian that that was so so inspiring to be around was that he is not this cynical kind of depressed guy walking around doing this this this works. That is so difficult. He actually has a bounce to his step he has so much energie And and he has so much hope He he actually believes that. You can't do the type of work that he does without hope because hope is the things that allows you to have vision for something that you cannot see and every project that he he embarks on feels impossible at the moment that he's starting But it's the the hope that that allows him to to zinc that. This could change that. There is a way to to change the hearts and minds of the people behind a broken system And and as as much as you know as much as this movie was may taking place in the late eighties early nineties And there there are a lot of things especially recently that that has have even gone backwards And there's a ton of work and and to be done I also Brian Stevenson's work and his life has proven that one person can really make a difference in the difference. That he has made is pretty incredible. I think the hope speak of definitely shines through in the film and it's a light light in serve the most bleakest services you know air hope seems to be short supply in and this really gross systemic abuse injustice and it would make anybody the most cynical I think but the thing about is like you're talking about a real person and so it's not just a fictional movie like superhero or real person right. I wonder what kind of burdens you felt. If at all I mean about representing his story about the writ you know the real life person You know you're dealing with real facts. Real real real personality. I mean what kind of things that you go through in making the film that you kind of pressure to put yourself A lot of threats a a lot. I it's rare as a filmmaker to be able to to tell a story about a person who is Still as active right now in the work that that he does as he was thirty years ago. We're not we're not telling a bio pic of someone who it has passed away or who were not just trying to you know Glamorize somebody's life just to just so you have the information Where where telling a story that you can actually leave the theater and donate to this organization or we're going volunteer somewhere or go and listen to Bryan? Stevenson speak He the day before he came and visited us on say he was. He was arguing in front of the Supreme Court He's he has actively he's actively doing words that he speaks and his words are incredibly powerful because he backs it up with his life and I just just never met a A man or or or woman who has more Dedicated to to to just making the world more fairer place for the most vulnerable people in our society. So I mean I I had a lot of pressure put on myself to not screw it up Because anytime around Bryan Stevenson I just feel so unworthy but he he's very inspiring person to be around. I think one thing that you sort of alluded to in the Q.. And A. after the screening was a sense of am. I the right person to tell this story you know. Do I have the the permission some level and and of course his is a story of as an African American man fighting against a huge amount of anti black racism in a south that even the eighties nineties and today continues to to oppressively oppressively treat. It's black citizens. Can you talk a little bit about about finding into the material and any sort of sense of how you were able to connect your own personal experiences and perspective Into it sure in the the Asian American experiences is very different from the African. The American experience and particularly being Asian American growing up in Hawaii is very different from The Asian American experience in anywhere else in the country In Hawaii you're you you really don't feel the minority growing up as an Asian American are take you feel you feel very. You're just a local you don't you know And whether you are Filipino. Japanese Chinese Chineese Hawaiian Portuguese. I mean every it's just everybody just kind of looks at themselves as equals equals we all make fun of each other the same the same the so you know the the main thing that I that I had when reading this book was just a a real real personal connection to these characters the way that they were written portrayed and the fire that comes from really understanding and being illuminated to a problem in in a way that you haven't really seen before and so I was you know the this subject incarceration and and and injustice toward toward the poor and vulnerable and and people of Color in this country is something that I thought I knew but the way that Brian Spells spells it out both through to the rich history. And how how everything you know the the the evolution from so all the way up through mass incarceration the way that he he maps that out alongside these really elite rich character stories of about characters that you just feel like they are your family because you relate to them so much I felt so connected to to his story in the material that I wanted to do whatever I could to be involved evolved. Did I ever feel like I'm the perfect person to tell the story now. I never feel like that. I'm always like a huge self-doubt crowder and I. I always find every reason to to doubt myself but but when I met with Brian Stevenson and and heard how much he he connected with the heart of short term twelve when he watched it I think I think you saw similar thing in that movie that that he hoped we would bring to this movie which was taking characters that you often see portrayed in a certain way as through through movies and and humanizing them in a way that is surprising And in this movie it's it's interesting and to hear what surprises people and often. It's just three three guys on death row and hearing them laugh together and and crack jokes together and seeing that there is like a real camaraderie there That's that that's something. The thing that that I often hear. People are surprised by and honestly when I was told about the camaraderie between the cellmates on are not to sail into jail mates because they're all in individual cells but the camaraderie that they had in the relationships that they built. It was a really surprising and beautiful thing And that's what we kind of hope that this movie does for for people is humanize A subject that I think we all hear you're a lot about but don't necessarily get close enough to feel the real humanity behind it. I've got to say I mean I hope every Asian American and non-asian-american listening to this seat just mercy but there are absolutely notes. I feel that if you're an American you're going to connect with in terms of And the importance of family and community in and around this African American community that is trying to get. They're they're sort of beloved patriarch. Johnny d Released there's seems so clear that the taipans relationships ships the way that people kind of hang together support one another It's GonNa feel very familiar to anybody who comes from a big sort of extended Ohana. I WANNA be right and there's also this one set of beads which I thought was really really interesting where Johnny de helps helps another one of his fellow death row inmates kind of find its way to peace. Sort of mindfulness. Sends them like breathing reflective meditation almost and I. I don't know how much of that comes from the book and how much of it comes from the the way you kind of got into the story but it really for me anyway connected deeply with with with how I would God forbid kind of get through as sure as well that was I actually was Zabell to sit with Anthony Ray Hinton who was portrayed by by O'Shea Jackson and Anthony Engineer was wrongfully imprisoned and held on death row for for thirty years and he he talked about how he would get through it and It all had to do with mindfulness and it wasn't something that was talk to him. It was some. It was like a necessary tool that he kind of created through being able to let his mind and go and travel and and see places he hasn't seen and interact with people he hasn't he he never met but all all through just a a way of escaping the the horror of the place that he was in And that was that was where that that came from Yeah it's it's one of my favorite moments in the movie was when you get to see one you've got to see Johnny Johnny d Really be there for his friend. WHO's having a panic attack and just watch him carefully and and really intimately talk him through that? We're we're short on time. So we're going to pivot real quick into our signature segment. It the good the bad and the W we're GONNA put you on the spot Jeff. Would you quickly explain the rules of engagement. I will indeed. So this is ah our round table segment show which we actually ask our guest sometimes ourselves in this case. We'll just put our guest on the spot to talk about a topic topic close to them. Three different ways first the good that is something positive. Something empowering and joyful about the thing the second the bad bad something that is negative or enraging frustrating about the thing and then finally the WF which is just you know questions actions lingering questions the things that make About the experience and we thought that it would be appropriate to have you talk about the good the bad and the dubbed t.f of making just S. mercy with the understanding of course that sometimes the bad things in the WF things are things about maybe even the topic that you're engaged with our anecdotes the Go-to even countered you encountered while you're actually making the film or you know experienced while watching people watch the film. So let's start with the good. There's there's a lot of good thing that lingers as the best thing perhaps about making this mercy the probably the best thing about making this movie Is is the family that that is created over the course of the three months that you are actually shooting and putting it together and this particular family was so special and so diverse so many different cultures came together to help tell the story and it really did feel like a a big kind of Seeing and all the ethnicities rally behind the African American experience and and share in. That was something that was really beautiful and We are also learning as we went and and having the conversations that we're having offscreen gene in between takes or were some really moving in life changing things so it was a that's a that's definitely a good. Let's pivot to the back was there. What was it that the bad the bad yard asking you to talk about a little bit? I mean the I am full on panic attacks leading to to shooting this movie I I was was was kind of projecting acting every bad thing that could possibly happen was was kind of going in circles in my head So it was. I mean. That's how bad the pressure was that. I was putting on myself and I mean the good thing is everything everything ended up being okay and then But but it definitely was a was a stressful experience Especially especially leading up to day one of shootings. All the anticipation was was really scary for me to useful or is it or is it something you could do. I mean does it drive you away. I mean I think anxiety is only negative. If it completely paralyzes you I mean it's always uncomfortable. Always feels like shit but when But but if you can if you can harness and turn it into action. I think it's A. It's a positive thing it's usually your your body telling you something but you know at the time when you're feeling it you know I. I wish I didn't have to feel. It feels terrible all right finally the devotee F. Is there something. That's still you know you're still thinking about. You're still kind of over her about the experience when when you finish A movie it's typically. It's it's done and when you get to move on with your life or go onto the next thing It it's it's interesting with this because the movie is done but the the problem still remains and Bryan Stevenson and his team of Amazing lawyers and volunteers and social workers at the equal justice initiative are working right now as we speak speak And their work is grueling and difficult and they they see a lot of successes assist but they also see a lot of You know terrible things that sometimes as bad as as as an execution and seen their clients die All of that is happening right now. so in in this scenario in this particular particular film. It doesn't feel like I get I get to just move onto the next thing I have to ask myself how how I can continue to be involved and how I can be a participant in helping to create a a new country a new system that that no longer treats you better if you're rich and guilty than if era poor and innocent that we can help create a system that is looks at the most vulnerable people in our society the as equals to the the billionaires So that's what I that's what I hope I imagine there's a certain amount of I'm not sure if what W. F. quite the right term but we talked about moving onto the next project you are. You're here from Australia. Yeah right shooting another different movie. I don't think that we could go without. At least I mean talking to people who are who've been talking talking about Shanxi was even a marvel movie like you know what I mean before we use like at least try to sneak something at at the very at least at the fact that this is the next project right that you immediately pivoted to after just mercy war some of the things that. How did that happen in war? Some the things you either had to switch gears on or took take from your experience and just mercy moving into a gigantic budget marvel cinematic like University of Shanxi You know it's it's really exciting to be part of another movie that is going to put some New faces up on the screen. And I you know I I grew up with. I didn't even know why I loved Spiderman until until I was old enough to realize it was because I couldn't see his face and I could imagine myself under that mask you know and and they're they're just there weren't any AH Asian faces to identify with in the Superhero World And so to be able to give a a new generation an option is really cool. I you know it is a very different print type of movies than just But you know in in the same vein the the emotional aspect and and the ideas of Camaraderie and family and connection is something that will will definitely be a part of this movie Destin thank you so much for being on calls Bruce US really appreciate it. Just mercy opens on December Twenty Fifth And then on January tenth and nationwide Real quick we're working people connect with you online if anywhere social media wise not really on social good for you actually. There's like a just move. Just mercy movie. Oh Yeah just mercy has some stuff. That's it just mercy film people at Just Mercy Mercy movie okay so adjust mercy at just mercy film on Instagram. Also follow the equal justice initiative at each I I underscore. Org Jeff Yang worker. People find you online. I am original spin pretty much everywhere. Twitter elsewhere Mostly twitter and where can people find you. You can find me at angry man and on Englishmen Dot Com that does it for this episode of the Truth and thank you so much moves just mercy Shanxi coming soon thanks so much peace. Thank you for having you've been listening today. Call US Bruce with Jeff Yang fill you our theme music is by Carroll One our producer. Is Nick Song they call us. Bruce's a member of the potluck. podcast collective between a unique voices and stories from the Asian American community. Find out more at PODCAST POTLUCK DOT com and thanks for listening

Bryan Stevenson Equal Justice Initiative Brian Spells Jeff Yang Hawaii Shanxi Warner brothers Asia America Brie Larson Bruce Bryan Anson Twitter founder Sundance Chinese Chineese Hawaiian Port Walden Johnny Johnny US