20 Episode results for "US Naval Academy"

Episode 124: Carter Page on Abuse and Power

Newt's World

30:16 min | 9 months ago

Episode 124: Carter Page on Abuse and Power

"Today's episode is brought to you by meow mix looking for cat food with chart topping taste head to target and pick up your mix the cat food causing pert ammonium everywhere with one hundred percent complete and balanced nutrition for various life stages shop with target circle and save fifteen percent meow mix cat food. The only one cats asked for by name. Is Always just not out Cardi bean in polk, the biggest hole yet the stranglehold entertainment immediate have on the minds of black voters. In this country I'm Rob Smith and all the next episode of Rob Smith is problematic. We're going to break down why the left uses idiots to each black America it. How can owens just put them all on notice that they cannot do it anymore. Listen to rob. Smith is problematic on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcasts wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of mutual these false allegations started against me from the very beginning false evidence, complete lies going back to the dodgy dossier every allegation in there, all the people I've met is a complete out the only parts of the doc- that were included were those that pertained Carter page in some of that was corroborated there is circumstantial evidence of collusion there is a direct evidence of. Deception I told you that I thought that was a Kremlin clan and these were his allies i. believe there was collusion. This is what the President Tweeden. So we now find out that it was indeed the unverified and fake dirty dossier that was paid for by Crooked Hillary, Clinton the DNC knowingly and falsely submitted adviser, and which was responsible for starting the totally conflicted and discredited Muller. WITCH-HUNTS DONALD TRUMP is trying to link the steele dossier with the start of the F. B. I. Cope which became a mole investigation not accurate complexly four zero seven page lived in Russia during this time page began dealings with Gazprom each giant wheel and gas company with ties to special counsel. Robert. Muller has exonerated the president and his campaign on the question of collusion. This is A. Definitive political victory for president trump officials the victory for Donald Trump. But this is ace a win for this president and the news is trump won this week president and his campaign were vindicated a vindicated president trump made his way back to Washington. She's been vindicated by authoritative report prisoners just been vindicated verde of way there was no coordination or conspiracy. So this vindicates the president on collusion. Hi this is new. Do the virus in recording from home see may notice a difference in audio quality. On, this episode of Newt's World Carter Page is a model American citizen. The graduate of the US Naval Academy a successful businessman. Even, served his country clandestinely as a source for America's intelligence services. But. All of that work was not enough to protect Carter page and he the temerity to support Donald trump the pressroom. They became a target of the FBI and Career Justice Department this wanted to harass trump the candidate and then on seat trump oppressor. In his book abuse of Power Carter, page himself, toes, the shocking and sordid story with her son. Carter page is a private citizen who found himself in the midst of a real life spy story. Historian his own words I'm pleased to welcome my guest Carter page. Let. Me Share with you an expert in Carter pages new book. Abuse Power how an innocent American. Frame in an attempted coup against the president. Carter writes quote after three years of pushing their false narratives and the American public, the Obama era leadership with the FBI, the CIA and other intelligence agencies have gradually been exposed as partisan opry's. They created the Russia collusion hoax to preserve their power and to silence the opposition Carter page case and the FISO abuse surrounding the two thousand sixteen presidential campaign showcase their tactics. He was hardly the real target other tax. This was an attack, Donald J trump and the movement that he has led from the campaign trail and the Oval Office. The people charged with protecting our rights launched an assault, and American, democracy and the core principles of justice enshrined in the US Constitution. For a while, they must've you're in the middle of a really bad movie. I mean all of these different things going on you must have been very disoriented. I have to say, Speaker Gingrich I had some good training like you. I completed my doctorate and I've had all kinds of great academic and practical training throughout my life. But the one training element that was the most helpful was a training program at the U. S. Special Warfare, center in school down in Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and that prepared me for the intense pressure and really the life threatening damages that I was subjected to buy an odd. Between the DNC, their media allies and the Obama Administration. Get the beginning you actually had been helping us, government? So can that standpoint You must've almost a sense of. You had some kind of protection visit a new era. And they knew what you doing had been for them. Out of you come to grips with the reality that they had turned on, I actually came to the realization very early in the last presidential election cycle because I kept getting these false allegations. Again, I was an unknown quantity at the time and the DNC had a multimillion dollar smear operation to basically take down then candidate trump the a lot of people that. He was associated with it was all false allegations as is now been proven based on the very preliminary investigations that have happened so far by the US Department of Justice Off Inspector, General? The US Congress both in the Senate and the house in terms of some of their preliminary investigations but it's really just the tip of the iceberg and I think as your correctly. Alluding to what was done to me shouldn't be allowed to happen to anyone particularly a candidate for the presidency I mean these people within government. Abuse their oath of office and in doing so they abuse the US Constitution and it really is a terrible situation and I think we're just at the start of really fighting back and getting some justice here not just for me but for all innocent Americans and people that loved their country. Isn't part of this, not just a user person but. If we allow this kind of behavior to. Go on punished every American citizen is potentially at risk. For the kind you abuses that you were put through. Yes, absolutely, I guess the ones small silver lining is that what these revelations after amazing research and work done by the US Senate Judiciary Committee under Chairman Grassley and Chairman Graham and also the House intelligence? Committee under then Chairman Devon. Nunez. They really started to uncover it but unfortunately, there has not been a full reckoning yet and that's what's really the objective of this book with so many lies that are still driving the narrative. As you've talked about related to a lot of other false information campaigns in the media and by the Democrat Party over the last several years, it's essential to have some semblance of truth out there, and when my book does is really lay out the important fundamental facts which have not been fully understood by the American public and more importantly US voters particularly now, as we're heading into this critical election in less than two months here. I was astounded. The system used? The steele dossier when it was so clearly false. In so many different ways, I mean when you look back on it, it almost willful blindness. For them to continue pretending that was a serious document. Everything you're saying is correct. The only thing I would question I think which chairman. Grassley Chairman Graham Chairman Johnson. So many other senior members of Congress have stated based on their in-depth investigations thus far is the willful blindness is actually the best case scenario. I, think there is. A of serious evidence that it goes beyond that and I think in many cases in the interest of advancing their political and personal interests, the Democrats did this intentionally and I think there's a lot of evidence related to that which continues to grow as we dig into more of the details of what exactly happened in the last presidential election cycle. I been tell you about Amac the Association of Mature American citizens have you joined yet Now more than ever mounting problems or fishing America government growth erosion of liberties and the enormous financial burden our children and grandchildren. Hear it. If we do nothing, AMAC is the conservative alternative to other. Groups. So I I met them in two thousand, seven AMAC has become a formidable defender of our values. Now, two million members strong and growing. The benefits joining AMAC. You become part of an honest active in conservative force one that counters the radical left suggested. It's your chance to do well and good at once keeping America strong. The. On advocacy aim at gives you access to every day money saving benefits like special rates on car insurance. So phones, tribal discounts and more. You'll also receive a MEX-. Bimonthly magazine full of inciteful articles on issues of motor most stand with me stand with Amac, even more vital now with the election ahead joined today. AMAC DOT US forward slash newt that's A. M. A. C. Dot U. S. forward slash new. IMAC. US Ford. Snatch Newt. Hey I'm andy if you don't know me it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start men's grooming company called Harry's the idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience I had buying razor blades most brands were overpriced over designed and out of touch at Harry's our approach approaches simple. Here's our secret. We make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest prices for as low as two dollars each we care about quality so much that we do some crazy things like by a world class German. Blade factory obsessing over every detail means we're confident offering one hundred percent quality guarantee millions of guys have already made the switch to Harry's. So thank you if you're one of them and if you're not, we hope you give us a try with this special offer Gary Starter, set with a five Blade Razor waited handle Shave Gel, and a travel cover offered just three bucks plus free shipping. Just go to Harrys, DOT COM and enter four, four, four, four at checkout. That's Harrys Dot com code four, four, four, four. Enjoy My first campaign was in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, four. I remember Watergate which started out as the break in and next autumn I got caught up in the cover up but the more the evidence comes out to clear is that the chain runs all the way up to Biden. Obama in White House meetings where they specifically discuss these things and where we now have records that they discuss these. Doesn't that make this they dramatically bigger. Political. Scandal swept toward system than anything we saw in Watergate. You're absolutely right and it goes so much further that small breaking that occurred in the Watergate Hotel it would be interesting to put that. In dollar terms how much did political lives in? Washington. Pay For that Operation Been Twenty twenty dollar terms adjusted for inflation what we know for. Sure. Is that this was a multi million dollar smear campaign? Funded by the DNC through all kinds of cutouts there were political consultants as well as their lawyers right which has all kinds of implications in terms of attorney, client privilege or the attempt of hiding between that veil and Oh, by the way, this actually used foreign agents. These are people operatives overseas. Literally using the term collusion these. Foreign agents paid for by the Democrats were colluding literally with Russian sources as now been uncovered only recently just in the last couple of months again, there was this big four, hundred eighty page US Department of Justice Inspector General report about the FIS abuse against myself as a way of damaging then candidate trump and it throughout the early start of his administration. But we now know and what has been disclosed through all of these unnecessary reductions. The Senate has uncovered that one of the reductions was literally Russian disinformation. All of these false smears, these operatives of the Democrat, party and their colleagues. were. Leveraging Russian disinformation throughout. So I think your characterization is absolutely right. There's a lot that needs to be done to rectify this. Way You describe it WHO's manipulating who? Were the Russians manipulating? Obama and the Democrats or Obama and Democrats manipulating the Russians. This is another example of core questions that have not been fully uncovered, right my story and this spy thriller is just basically laying out the truth. And there are some terrible offenses against American democracy that were committed. It really is the responsibility of all Americans to push back and demand that the congress and the operatives within the US Department of Justice and in our federal bureaucracy. Finally, give the full story because these are terrible crimes that were committed and there hasn't been full justice yet and I think particularly now as we're so close to the next presidential election, it's essential that American voters know the full truth and this is a really a call to action. When did you first realize that there was a problem at the very beginning in the summer of two, thousand, sixteen, I started getting these. Terrible calls from journalists. The first one actually was from the wall, Street Journal and one of the Wall Street Journal reporter's texted me saying we've heard these allegations that you are working with these sanctioned Russian officials and they named two names one of whom I'd never even heard of and the other who's a massive power player in Russia. This guy section who is the head of raw snapped. The largest oil company Russian who I've never met in my entire life, neither of whom I admit. And I set the Wall Street Journal Straight but I. Kept Getting these calls New York Times Washington Post CNN. So many big news outlets. Asking these same. Allegations and finally because I have served the US diligence community and I do have. Some context there in and I got the word in I believe early September two thousand sixteen. That's this effort to dig up dirt. Involving foreign operatives was paid for by the Democrats. So I knew quite early on then sure enough. My world was really turned upside down on September Twenty Third Twenty sixteen when this blockbuster report again, all filled with false allegations was filed by the reporter Michael Isikoff and was used as part of the basis for the next month in October two, thousand sixteen for this abusive process by the Obama, Biden administration and the operatives within their DOJ and the FBI to spy on the trump campaign be a myself. Then you discover. that. The people who are actually been working with. Apparently didn't talk to the people who've decided you'll yo. You had a pretty long record. Actually being reliable. Associated with the American government, not an enemy absolutely and look I think this all comes down to a difference of political opinions right? A different vision in terms of us, foreign policy and it was a real retribution as we now understand through what has been uncovered with these really aggressive intelligence operations by the Obama Biden Administration. It was just a way of infiltrating based on totally false information and allegations to miss portray me from the very start as something I was not I've serve my country back to the early nineteen ninety s when I was at US naval officer after graduating from Annapolis and have served my country ever since in various ways somebody who has your record. Apple served in the navy actually been helpful to the intelligence community. If somebody can be framed to a you were. Then isn't it fair to say that anybody is at risk if the deep state really wants to go after absolutely and there has been more work in more things that have been uncovered just last week. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals had a big case which they called many of these surveillance operations illegal. I mean it has now been set straight. You mentioned Watergate and the fall out there were steps that were taken by the US. Congress signed into law by the president in the nineteen seventies Nunez just foreign intelligence surveillance act in various provisions. Within that, we're actually related and used in very aggressive ways not only to spy on the trump campaign the myself but. Again per that ninth circuit decision, it's now been established that several of these programs in having much broader application against all American citizens have now been shown to be illegal what president trump and his administration have been calling for Israeli a reckoning I mean he has been abused in a way which is totally unprecedented in US history, and it's important that steps are taken to reform this system as he has called for. These are really human rights, civil rights, abuses, and. It's actually astonished. Kingsley look up and think. Between the news media. The intelligence community. The FBI the justice. Department. The Democrats in the house, the fact that he's still standing is astonishing. I fully agree as I explained in the book, You look at what I've gone through and it's a small pittance compared to what he has somehow endured. It's really a testament to his character. This essentially has taken over my life over the course of the last four years. The reality that he's been able to achieve so much despite these extraordinary headwinds is truly amazing and I think it's something they're sorta gets lost in the bigger picture because when you take a step back and look at the full. Portrait of what happened over the last four or five years. It's truly amazing what he's nonetheless been able to do despite these extraordinary crimes against a loyal American citizen. Today's episode is brought to you by meow mix looking for cat food with chart topping taste head to target and pick up your mix the cat food causing purdah ammonium everywhere with one hundred percent complete and balanced nutrition for various life stages shop with target circle and save fifteen percent meow mix cat food the only one cats ask for by name. Pay It's Buck sexton here we are in the height of an election season that will determine the future of the country who are you going to listen to? Who can you trust join me in the freedom of the one place where you know you'll get the straight story from a conservative perspective, Joe Biden somebody who's been a machine politician the Democrat Party from Delaware for longer than I've been alive and nobody thought he was impressive. No. One thought he had great leadership until about five minutes ago, they're trying to fool you. They're trying to pull off a con, a fraud against America and Joe. Biden. Is the conman into the biggest names and the heaviest hitters in politics trust me. So we've done a lot buck and we have some great support for your viewpoint is very important to me very, very important that we got to know each other fuck sexton formerly of the CIA. Back on the buck sexton shop iheartradio is number one podcasts and it's easy to see why listened the buck sexton show on the iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcast. The. Greater need is for -ffective enforcement. The existing law or do we actually need some additional laws to take into account these new kinds of Abo? It's a great question I. Think the reality is it's a little bit of both on September. First, there was a big press release from doj talking about some additional steps that they're taking to enhance compliance and oversight and accountability at the FBI which was so severely misused to damage the then candidate for the presidency and throughout the early years of his administration and to a large extent to this day. But alongside that I mean these are just policy changes and the abuses and the crimes that were committed. Goes just beyond basic policy. This is the core of the US Constitution in terms of fundamental civil rights, which are the foundation of our country. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act these are laws that have been completely obliterated and the whole basis upon which they were enacted in signed into law by the president in the nineteen seventies have been totally ignored. So it's a little bit of both there are additional steps that need to be taken. Absolutely. But I think more fundamentally, we need to return to the basic principles which have been the foundation of our country since the very beginning at the start of our new republic. What you've done. His citizenship it's best. You were active citizen and. Serving the Navy you're. Not, GonNa Citizen. In helping your country gathering intelligence your willingness to stand take the heat and not buckle is in the best tradition of American citizenship. And willingness to continue fighting for reform. is in that tradition so I wanNA thank you for what you've done. What you continue to do. I. Want to urge people to get your book abuse. Empower how newness American was framed in an attempted coup against the president. Right there you capture one of the most important moments in our history in your a witness to it at a personal level and I know how much this must've cost you psychologically and financially, and I just WanNa thank you for hanging in. There's a good American. Well. Thank you so much speaker Gingrich. Now, answer your questions. Are. For. Illinois ask what do you think is the most effective way to counter the negativity in lies what used to be the mainstream press it is almost impossible to discuss trump's many achievements when the news media does not cover or even acknowledged no one, the president has such an overwhelmingly unfavorable rating. Will Kathleen I think that the best way to offset it is social media, putting things out yourself on twitter or facebook. emailing your friends. Calling into. Talk. Radio. This. Is Not like the America forty or fifty years ago where three networks dominated everything and the truth is despite as you point out five years of unrelenting hostility that the president, his social media at Orca. So large and his support from talk radio and from Fox. So great that he actually played about a time it's been an amazing achievement on his. To be able to do that and I think that we have to give him some credit to great question is something we all have to work on and you personally can play a role both on your own social media and in interacting with talk radio and interacting with. Various websites. You can read more about Carter Pages, new book abuse and power. How Nissen American was frame an attempted coup against the president when our show page neutral dot com. Knowle's produced by Gingrich sweet sixty and IHEARTMEDIA. Are Executive Producers Novi Myers and our producers Garnsey slum. Our for the show was created by Steve and special thanks the team of Gingrich we sixty. Please email me with your questions gingrich three, sixty, dot com slash questions. I'll answer selection of questions in future episodes. Human GonNA join new tour I. Hope you'll go to apple podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about The next episode of mutual. For. The third episode in our three part series and Dwight David Eisenhower I'll be joined ice granddaughter Susan is now. She'll talk about her new book on her grandfather, how lead the principles behind Eisenhower's biggest decisions. Rawson and talk about the dedication of the new Eisenhower Memorial in Washington DC. I'm Newt Gingrich this is. Neutral. When it comes to what's happening in this country and around the world, the best podcast you can listen to is the buck sexton show. Hey, it's buck sexton. Here we are in the height of election season that will determine the future of the country who are you going to listen to? Who can you trust? Who could have thought that when people told Democrats, they had to treat Wisconsin like a battleground they would take it quite so literally. iheartradio is number one for podcast, and it's easy to see why listen the buck sexton show on the iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcasts. Kansas just not out Cardi B. In polk the biggest hole yet, and the stranglehold entertainment immediate have on the minds of black voters in this country. Smith in the next episode of Rob, Smith is problematic. We're going to break down why the left uses idiots to reach black America it how Kansas Owens just put them all on notice that they cannot do it anymore. Listen to Rob Smith is problematic on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcasts wherever you get your podcasts.

president US Donald J trump Democrats Newt Gingrich America FBI DNC DOJ Power Carter Obama Apple Rob Smith Congress Russia Biden US Naval Academy buck sexton Washington
CNN10 - 11/26/19

CNN 10 (video)

10:00 min | 1 year ago

CNN10 - 11/26/19

"It was this is our last show of the week in the month. We'll be back on air next Monday. December second thanks for giving US ten minutes of your time in the capital of the United Kingdom Uber has lost its license and if it loses its appeal then Londoners and visitors will have to call a black cab bob use the tube or find another ridesharing service Uber. I had his license suspended in London in two thousand seventeen. The city didn't like how the company responded to serious crimes crimes and questions about safety. But it's been given probation period since then which allowed Guber to keep giving rides now though transport for London says it's identified. Hi to quote pattern of failures that have put passengers at risk including thousands of trips that were given by unauthorized drivers. Some of whom had been fired but faked being authorized. Ones Uber. Says it's changed. Its business and is now quote setting the standard on safety. It calls London's decision extraordinary and wrong long. You can still order an Uber. Their the services allowed to keep operating while the appeals process plays out but there are concerned about the future of. It's forty five thousand drivers in London Lunden if it permanently loses its license there there are also concerns about Uber's revenues. London makes up a significant part of those and the company is facing more competition in the air from other ride sharing services second trivia which of these companies is not considered a unicorn. Door Dash Space X Institute for Netflix. Accord is a private startup. Business worth at least one billion dollars. Hours and Netflix is publicly. Held Abuse with a Sony Sony. Walkman is a tiny stereo cassette asset flare with truly incredible sound uh instance company. Ah is trying to use a Toco sisters real while the ball bounce. What are some of the hurdles that can make get Japan a place where startups in UNICORNS can flourish? We need to wall die. Bus TEETERS CINCO. adopter New Year Meaning the US Naval Academy in Annapolis Maryland. The tests that students undergo aren't just academic. They're about as physical as the human body allows the seat trials last fourteen. Fourteen hours there a series of physical and mental challenges for the Academy's Freshman or Plebes and a leadership demonstration for the upper class. It's not open to the public but CNN's coy wire who played in the NFL. For nine years was invited to both watch and participate. It's two thirty in the morning on and Nablus Maryland neighb- Academy I'm coy wire and this is c. trials and he's got low crawl gotTa push these ammo containers all the way to opposite. I think I'm a pretty tough wired but I'm not as tough as this wire bar. I'm loving it was a long day. Talk they're doing their exercises in the water the wet and sandy which sounds fun at five thirty in the morning and a fifty degree weather other. You're only strong as your weakest link. And this shows that the only strongest and Weakest Link so they learn how to work together they learn how to how to communicate together and and just work on focusing on the mission. And they're going to need that when they become those future leaders when they go to sleep. These are tired. Their feet hurt their what. Let Their sweaty just a very long day for them physically and mentally It is because some of my ears husband feeling alive live is now tough and the crazy thing about it by the US for ten hours per strong my at this phase right now we have not behind find us on how to water. PT Swim relates. And then to really are. We have a rifle over Fred's we in the water with a rifle over their head Ed trading and worked on teamwork. We'll have gone underwater and undoing walks up holding their breath while their teammates are out there giving the combination. So it's really neat. Abed breaking whatever you don't do the Flying Squirrel. I have no idea what it is to find out doozy determination termination. What keeps you call? We through everybody around us. Everybody around me everybody's here we've been learning about everything from leadership to building up each other encouragement trust all about throughout the so. This is like the combination of all the endurance. Course the Sut Repo out worse certain uphill downhill you. And why did you quit leased. I've so many people here. They're looking out for me. Honestly have not like that before shivers inspire you to be that for someone else now. No doubt and hours of blood sweat and tears. They tried to quit. Gay didn't see trials. It's ten ten more like ten thousand out of ten singer-songwriter Mortgage Clark plays at a hotel in Nashville Tennessee several times a week after a recent performance there was a little extra in her tip case a check. Check for ten thousand dollars. Is this legit. Yes legit Morgan. Says She's GonNa donate ten percent to the Salvation Army and she thanked the fan who wanted to remain anonymous for believing her and giving her a shot. Well thank you guys for believing in us for Thanksgiving us the best audience for digesting all the eight Corny puns. I can make up for stuffing our INBOX and social media with feedback for being cranberry sauce. Him A CORNUCOPIA awesome and for watching from feast to her west whereas Oh grateful to gobble up ten minutes of your day. We hope your Thanksgiving is tripped band. Testing was for C._N._N..

London US Uber Netflix Sony US Naval Academy London Lunden United Kingdom Toco Guber Salvation Army Nablus CNN Maryland neighb- Academy NFL Plebes Space X Institute Japan
Navy Vet Beaten by Federal Agents at Portland Protests: 'They Came Out to Fight'

TIME's Top Stories

04:55 min | 11 months ago

Navy Vet Beaten by Federal Agents at Portland Protests: 'They Came Out to Fight'

"Navy vet beaten by federal agents at Portland protests in viral video. They came out to fight by Andrew Selsky for the Associated Press in Salem. Oregon. The Navy veteran stands passively in Portland Oregon amid swirling tear-gas. One of the militarized federal agents deployed by President Donald Trump swings of baton at him with full force with both hands five times. Under the assault fifty-three-year-old Christopher David seems like a redwood tree impervious to the blows, but in a video shot by a reporter, another officer, wearing green military camouflage. I helmet and Gasmask. Sprays David full in the face with what appears to be pepper gas. Video of the Saturday night incident has gone viral accounts of it have been reported by news outlets in the United States and around the world. Today, David who suffered two broken bones in his hands in the assault, finds himself a reluctant symbol of the protests, taking place in Oregon's largest city and the federal response to it. Militarized officers from a handful of agencies have been using tear gas flash, BANGS, pepper, spray, and quote, unquote, less lethal impact weapons and other munitions to disperse crowds in isn't about me getting beat up. It's about focusing back on the original intention of all these protests which. Which is black lives matter David said in a phone interview Monday with the Associated Press. The US Department of Homeland Security, which has deployed officers to Portland didn't immediately respond to a request for comment on the incident that David recounted Dha said in a statement about Saturday nights events that some of the protesters were quote violent anarchists who launched on at federal officers, including fireworks and bags of paint and tried to barricade officers inside the federal building. Some vandalism including Rafidi has occurred in the Portland protests now in their fifty third day and federal officials say they've responded to protect property and help restore order. One protester was arrested after allegedly assaulting a federal officer with a hammer. But people peacefully, protesting police, brutality and racism, including county commissioner and religious clerics have been subjected to riot control munitions. One demonstrator was hit in the head by an impact munition, shattering bones in his face and head some were snatched off the streets by the federal officers and stuffed into unmarked vehicles. David, a graduate of the US Naval Academy and a Navy veteran was so disturbed by what he'd heard that he came to a protest site outside the federal building in downtown Portland on Saturday night he put on a sweat shirt with navy, emblazoned across the chest and a navy ball cap, figuring the federal officers would be like him a military veteran. He figured they'd listen as he reminded them. Quote that you take the oath to the constitution. You don't take the oath to a particular person. Would they were doing was unconstitutional. David said sometimes I worry that people take the oath. Oath of office or the oath to the constitution, and it's just a set of words mean nothing. They really don't feel in their heart. The weight of those words there was no talking. The federal officers in full tactical gear came charging out of the federal building. They came out in this failings running, and then they plowed into a bunch of protesters in the intersection of the street, and knock them over. They came out to fight David, said one officer pointed semi automatic weapon David's chest. He said and video shows another shoving him backwards as he tried to talk with the officers. I took a couple of steps back straightened up, and then just stood my ground right their arms down by my side David recalled one officer began whacking at David with the baton when he doesn't fall or even flinch, another officer sprays him full in the face David then retreats a few steps while making an obscene gesture. They are thugs and goons David said I couldn't recognize anything tactically that they were attempting to do. That was even remotely related to crowd control. It looked to me like a gang of guys with sticks. David will need reconstructive surgery with pins and plates on his ring finger that was shattered. A bone in his hand was also broken. He's not going back out to protest. My ex wife and my daughter would kill me if I did that. They're so angry at me for doing it in the first place because I got beat up, he said I'm not a redwood tree. I'm an overweight fifty-three-year-old man.

Christopher David officer Portland Oregon Associated Press Navy assault President Donald Trump Andrew Selsky United States navy US Department of Homeland Secu Salem commissioner vandalism US Naval Academy Rafidi reporter Dha
"Short-term Political Gain"

CNN Political Briefing

09:00 min | 2 weeks ago

"Short-term Political Gain"

"This podcast is brought to you by indeed dot com. Everyone david chalian the cnn political director. This is the cnn political briefing. Here's what you need to know in politics for. Friday may twenty eighth twenty twenty one republicans successfully filibuster and defeat the creation of an independent. Bipartisan january sixth commission will discuss that plus former president trump hitting back hard at former house speaker. Paul ryan and finally vice president harris makes history once again as the first woman ever to deliver a commencement address for the us naval academy. It had been clear for the last couple of weeks that mitch. Mcconnell wanted to ensure that this bipartisan independent commission. Looking into the january sixth insurrection. An attack on american democracy did not get created at the end of the day. The vote that will be recorded in history was fifty four yeas to thirty five nays now. Fifty four that means a significant majority of united states. Senators voted on this procedural motion to move ahead to debate and eventually to final passage of this january sixth commission but because the senate requires sixty votes to begin debate the republicans successfully filibustered this independent investigation aimed at protecting our democracy from ever such an attack again. Six republicans joined with the democrats in this vote. They needed ten. The six mitt romney of utah. Lisa murkowski of alaska susan collins of maine bill cassidy of louisiana and ben sasse of nebraska. All five of them. You'll recall also voted to convict president trump of inciting insurrection and his second impeachment trial. They also picked up. Rob portman of ohio. That got them to six. Two of the senate republicans who voted to impeach trump back in the winter. They didn't vote today. Richard burr north carolina. Who said he was opposed to this january six commission and pat toomey who was on the fence republican of pennsylvania. Who's retiring. He didn't vote on this. So it's not clear that there was ever a path to getting ten republicans once mitch. Mcconnell started lobbying against this bill. Even john cornyn and john thune and other republican have indicated as mitch. Mcconnell has this was all about politics. They thought this was a political loser for republicans for the next year and a half if a commission had been created and that it was going to be a political boon for the democrats and that reasoning the pure politics of it. That's what ticked off. Senator lisa murkowski. Republican alaska be making a decision for the short term political gain at the expense of understanding and acknowledging what was in front of us on january six. I think we need to to to look at that. Is that really what is about is everything is just one election cycle after another after the senators cast their votes today on this all important moment in american democracy this is what senate majority leader chuck schumer said on the senate floor to put it in its proper context for history. Shame on the republican party for trying to sweep the horrors of that day under the rug because they're afraid of donald trump. this vote has made it official donald. Trump's big lie has now fully enveloped the republican party. So where does that leave us. It leaves us with a republican party. Still more committed to donald. Trump's desires than the betterment of the whole of american democracy. Now here's what else matters today yesterday. On the podcast. We talked about the former house speaker. Paul ryan and what he planned to say at the reagan presidential library out in california talking about what the republican party should stand for and trying to steer the party away from trumpism. Here's a little of what he actually had to say last night even for a good showing in the house. Twenty twenty left. Republicans powerless in washington. Even worse it was horrifying to see a presidency conduct such a dishonorable and disgraceful. End voters looking for republican leaders. Want to see independence in metal. They will not be impressed by the of yes. Men and flatterers flocking to mar-a-lago. And as you can probably predict this hit a nerve with donald trump in a blistering scathing written statement that trump issued. Today he said quote. Paul ryan has been a curse to the republican party. He has no clue as to what needs to be done for. Our country was a weak and ineffective leader and spends all of his time fighting republicans as opposed to democrats who are destroying our country. This is what the former united states is spending his time on but it is instructive here because donald trump yes. He has never one to let a slight go by unchecked. But this kind of blistering pushback on a former house speaker giving a political speech to the reagan library indicates to me that trump is a little nervous that while he knows he is currently the one with the grip on the modern day. Republican party that it is in his mold in his image it. he's he's trump. That is the life force inside the republican party. That if he doesn't defend that turf day it could slip away that he understands. There is a countervailing force currently a smaller one that still exists in the republican party trying to find a way to keep trumpism obey and this is donald trump showing up and really trying to defend his turf doth protest too much. He's not one sitting confident that he has redefined the republican party in perpetuity. This is the statement of someone nervous that others may chip away at what he put together and he's pushing back hard and finally today vice president harris made some history as the first woman to ever give the commencement speech at the united states naval academy when she addressed the twenty twenty one graduating class today harris touched on some of the biggest threats to the nation and its armed forces including the pandemic cybersecurity challenges and climate change the global pandemic you save course has accelerated what was happening before and it has accelerated our world into a new era. Our world is interconnected. Our world is inter dependent and our world is fragile. According to the white house this is vice. President harris's first broad speech focused on the military and the threats that the country faces today as you may know the president and the vice president do deliver commencement speeches at least one of the service academies each year on a rotating basis. that's it for today's political briefing. Thanks so much for listening at one more thing. I wanted to take a minute and recommend new podcast from my friend and cnn colleague. Dr sanjay gupta. It's called chasing life. And it's all about slowing down and making mindful choices that prioritize your health and your will be so if you think you could use a little break from this nonstop news cycle and need a little self care. I highly recommend listening to chasing life. You can find it wherever you get your podcast. The cnn political briefing is a production of cnn autism. Meghan marcus is the executive producer and haley. Thomas is the senior news. Producer are episodes are produced by. We'll kalugin mimi. Mutasa and emmanuel johnson engineered by francisco. Memory and dan zula off on monday memorial day. We'll be back on tuesday wishing you and yours a very happy relaxing and meaningful memorial day. Weekend if you're using anything other than indeed for your hiring you're wasting your time. Hire great people faster with indeed indeed dot com helps you find quality candidates instantly within deed instant match indeed searches through the millions of resumes and their database to help show you great candidates instantly get started right now with a free seventy five dollars credit to upgrade your job post at indeed dot com slash. Cnn that's indeed dot com slash cnn offer valid through march thirty first terms and conditions apply.

republican party Mcconnell Paul ryan mitch senate david chalian Cnn Bipartisan january sixth commi donald trump bill cassidy ben sasse us naval academy Senator lisa murkowski alaska Rob portman Trump Lisa murkowski Richard burr susan collins pat toomey
The 26 Words That Created the Internetand Why They May Be on the Chopping Block

Reason Podcast

41:25 min | 2 years ago

The 26 Words That Created the Internetand Why They May Be on the Chopping Block

"This is the reason podcast your host Nicoletti. I'm going to read to you right now. The twenty six words that in the opinion of my guest today created the internet as we love it or hate it. So hear goes, and I'm quoting no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider. That's it. That's the end of the quote twenty-six words, some of you may recognize that sentence as part of section two thirty of the Communications Decency Act of federal law that was passed in nineteen ninety six and governs a lot of what happens online section to thirty grants broad immunity websites, and I s p's from legal actions such as being sued for libel. Indefinite in. So and the case of reason if you write something awful into famine, Tori in the comments section of reason dot com, and judging by the sheer volume of that you probably have if you visited the site, you can get sued, but reason probably. Can't and section two. Thirty is the law that has enabled the internet to become driven by user generated content from whether we're talking about YouTube, videos, or yelp reviews, or and all sorts of other kinds of content and now section two thirty and we're gonna get into a long conversation about this. But it was once popular for in standing the web the worldwide web, especially back in the ninety s what folks back then used to call a temporary Thomas zone where there was a hell of a lot of freedom, and it was hard to to make people stop doing what they're doing. They're going to create their own rules create their own laws create their own societies. But these say suctioned to thirty is under attack from both conservative politicians and liberal politician. So people like Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley Republican senators want to end to thirty or talk about reining it in because it's a sweetheart deal that allows Facebook to suppress the popularity of diamond and silk, but on the other side people like Elizabeth Warren and speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi are. Against it. Because they think it allows too much unbridled speech from bad sources, including Russian trolls and whatnot that cost Hillary Clinton the election Pelosi just a few days ago said that it might be time to get rid of it altogether. As a way of regulating, the regulating, social media, more fully. So I guess today is Jeff Kossuth he teaches law at the US naval academy. He's a former journalist who was a Polk award winner and a Pulitzer prize finalist. He's the author of the urgent new book. The twenty six words that created the internet which he calls a biography of section two thirty. We're gonna talk about the curious history of two-thirty, the slow erosion of its sweep and kind of majesty as as as governing lawn on the internet and how seriously and why we should take challenges it to it and free expression on the internet. So seriously, Jeff, thanks for talking to reason. Thanks for having me. So give me the elevator pitch of the buck. I mean, it's right there in the title. So maybe it's you know, where the were just. Getting in the doors don't even have to close. But you know, what is what's the essence of your book and its argument? So the essence of my book, and it it is a biography of a statute that I started writing in two thousand sixteen of I did not realize that it very well manned being an obituary for the statute of talk about that a bit later, but the overall gist of the book is that there was a law that congress really quietly passed as part of a much broader telecommunications Bill more than twenty years ago, and that law is more responsible than I would believe any other social dynamic for creating the collaborative internet that we know today, and what the book tries to do is examine twenty years out. What have been the positive negative inbetween impact? And where do we go from here as the internet becomes more complex as technology companies become larger and really get? More of a focus in Washington DC than they ever have before her before we talk about the history. Let's talk about kind of how you you talk about. How section two thirty is really kind of define the internet in a particular way. At one point you you mentioned looking I think this was for two thousand eighteen of the top ten internet sites websites in the United States only one of them net. Flicks mostly makes its own content rest or things like a Facebook or Twitter or even Google where you know, Twitter and Facebook, it's all user generated content. Google it many wet you YouTube is owned by Google or alphabet, obviously user, generated content, and then search engines are linking to kind of user generated content. So how explain how to thirty created this internet, which is mostly as you were saying collaborative and mostly user generated content. So section thirty provides a fairly strong defense for claims arising from us. Generated content, and what that does is it allows platforms to rely on user content without fearing wall suits without fearing regulation. So if I were a yelp or a Facebook or Twitter that was starting out without section two thirty I'm not quite sure how I'd be able to operate in the same way in the same open collaborative way. Because and this is a lawyer speaking, I would be terrified of the constant threat of lawsuits that you would face an even if there wasn't much merit to lawsuits like defamation about someone's opinion, which clearly is not going to succeed. You would still have to go through the discovery process and our litigated, which is very costly. So section two thirty has really set the framework that platforms are able to allow us your content and one of the other motivations of two-thirty, which we can talk about was to set their own rules in deter. In what they believe is appropriate. Yeah. That's you know, when you go back and read John Perry Barlow's declaration of independence, cyberspace or whatever, you know. It's it's all about it's not about escaping morality. It's being in a place where you can create your own terms in your own society in her unrolls discuss a little bit, the so, you know, we have this thing, you know, the internet obviously predates the nineties, but and and kind of by the mid nineties, the worldwide web is burgeoning what what was the landscape like before the internet became kind of a dominant force in our lives or a regular presence. And you go through a bunch of the early kind of pre two thirty cases pre Communications Decency Act, which was part of the telecommunications act, which rewrote kind of a lot of laws about communication technology. What was going on in the eighties and the early nineties with with services like a pre internet services like prodigy? AOL and CompuServe. So there was a rule under the first amendment that goes back to the nineteen fifties involving bookstores that were being prosecuted for selling what was believed to be obscene books that the distributor of content could only be held liable, if the distributor knew or should have known of the illegal content. So if a bookstore had fifteen thousand books and most likely you're not gonna hold the bookstore owner liable so that we're pretty well through the nineteen eighties early nineties. And then we started have the services that shockingly. None of my students were around to remember CompuServe and prodigy river to earliest ones, and they took very different approaches. So CompuServe provided newsletters for all sorts of both one win two way types of communications media. And it basically did not do any moderation. Did not set any rules. Didn't have anyone looking at content prodigy on the other hand wanted to distinguish. Distinguish itself as a family friendly service. So it had moderators all these user content rules and both of those services were sued for defamation arising from third party content within a few years of each other in the early nineteen nineties and CompuServe's lawsuit was dismissed because it was found to be the distributor of content. Ended had no reason to know that this material was depending Tori, a prodigy, however was held to not be a distributor, and this was just one chord on Long Island in it actually as documented in the book was not really one of the best judges in the United States. He had a pretty bad track record. So I disagree with his conclusion, but he said that because prodigy took steps to edit an moderate content. It's held to be publisher. So it's held liable. Just as much as if prodigy made the statement itself, and that was that pulling off of the idea say if your newspaper, you've you published an article, and then you. Publish a letter to the editor where somebody says something to fam-, Tori, that the newspaper would be considered the publisher of that as opposed to, you know, enhance potentially liable. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so prodigy was found to be more like a newspaper and less like new to stand. So for strictly liable just like a newspaper for the letters to the editor of the fallacy in that argument is that prodigy a newspapers letter to editor page runs maybe five or six letters day, and they screen them and every single one prodigy even back then had tens of thousands of user posts every day. And there was no way that they were screening everything if they found something or if they got a complaint, they would take down, but it was just pretty ridiculous to assume the prodigy could moderate every single bit of content, and then you get into with those two separate types of decisions. And you you create a situation. Where it makes sense either not to have comments at all. Or to just not say that, you know, if you're the the platform, you're not gonna do anything about it. Because if the minute that you actually start dipping into them. You're you you can be in trouble in a way that if you're CompuServe so site, we don't care. We don't even look at this stuff. You're in the clear. That's exactly right. So under that rule that the at least from those two courts, the the risk averse way to handle user content. Content would just be to take a hands off approach, and that's what really copy up attention congress. So. Yeah. And now talk about the two guys behind section two thirty and described a context a little bit. Because now we're talking about the mid nineties. It's clear the the internet is gonna be a thing. And it's it's really funny to be talking about this for some of us. I think yourself certainly myself. It's you know, this isn't the past. This is like, you know, yesterday or some it seems like it's shrouded in ancient myths of Avalon or something. But you have a Chris Cox and Ron Wyden. One is a conservative one is a one is a Republican one is democrat. You have a a congress, which this is just after Bill Clinton has been elected. And then there are midterm elections where the Republicans end up taking control of congress. It's a very fraught period. But you have these two characters who see something really special going on. And they want to carve out a space for for the kind of online were online economy online universe to grow. What what was going on there? And and how did they come up with two thirty. So it this was really in the spring and summer of nineteen ninety five and there was a lot going on that really led to this interesting confluence and events that caused section to thirty passed. So the first incident really occurred a few months before the prodigy ruling. And that was there's this was a Senator name Jim Nexen who was a conservative democrat from Nebraska, very concise. About family values and he wanted to heat. He proposed the Communications Decency Act, which would have face three words belong together. But yet. This. I it would have criminalized. The transmission of a lot of material online that was considered indecent. And it really had very wide sweep and let just there were a lot of civil liberties groups technology companies that were very afraid of this Bill that was moving through the Senate. It was getting attached this massive overhaul of Teluk telecom laws that would be passed the next year. So Cox and widen they saw this happening in the Senate. And they also saw the Stratton Oakmont is the prodigy decision. And they realized that there needed to be different path. And these were two members who had some technology expertise Cox, actually ran a translation service of provident newspaper. So he used CompuServe and prodigy and they both represented districts that have fairly heavy tech presence. So they realized that this new thing this new internet had a lot of potential, and I think really Cox was coming from the perspective of we don't want to regulate this. To death. He was the fifth ranking Republican in the house and widen also really even though his fairly liberal Democrat. He also believes that the tech sector works best when it's not so heavily regulated. So they propose they proposed. What became section two thirty which basically said those twenty-six words, providing this broad immunity, as well as a separate provision that says that you're not going to be held liable. If you take good faith steps to moderate or delete objectionable content. So those were both part of section two thirty and they attached their Bill to the house telecommunications overhaul. And so the Exxon Bill is in the Senate Koch minden is in the house, and then through the magic of conference committee as a compromise both of them end up getting attached to this telecommunications act that signed in February of nineteen ninety six and the media coverage was almost all it. It was really amazing. I spent a week just looking at media coverage of the telecom act, and almost all of it was about the regulation of local and long distance telephone rates in cable rates and things that nobody even knows about anymore. And it's funny rating the buck, you know, you're talking about MCI, and I've been these companies some of which still exists, but most of which don't. Yeah. And it was. Yeah. It's it's fascinating. Again, how quickly you know, you you take a world for granted that you know, these, and this is all the breakup of the bell telephone, you know, these are giant companies that will be with us forever. And they and they already don't, you know, they're forgotten completely exactly. And so most of the coverage was about that some of it was about the Communications Decency Act, the Exxon part that ended up getting a lot of attention primarily because they SEAL you and other civil liberties groups the day that the Bill was signed challenged in court. And then the next year the supreme court struck down the all Exxon's in DC. See proposals. So what was left of the Communications Decency? Act was section two thirty and even at that point in late ninety six early ninety seven people didn't really know what those twenty six words would mean. So discuss the early cases where section two thirty became know that was the focal point because people were bringing actions against a platforms or websites. How did it play out in the first couple of legal challenges or or know places where people were were having case court cases that revolve involved a two third. So the first judge to ever decide a section to thirty kiss was actually judged ES L S from Alexandria, who I think many people might recognize from the Manafort case, but he actually got the first case that would result in a section to thirty opinion. And that was a really tragic case involving someone named Ken Gerin who he was a. Middle-age photographer real estate agent living in Seattle with his parents and about six days after the Oklahoma City bombing. He starts getting all of us. Really angry calls starting maybe a few hour. Glenn too few permit, and what happened with someone in? We still don't know who posted these incredibly tasteless ads with jokes about the Oklahoma City bombing jokes about dead children on America Online with an it said ask for Ken call and they gave his phone number. And he took a lot of steps to ask AL to take down these heads and AOL dragged its feed to laid to take down one ad than another comeback up and wouldn't remove fast enough. This went on for about a month. Zahren ended up going on psychiatric medication. It was really an awful experience for him. So he sues AOL and AOL has the wisdom. To hire. Pack Rome is a really established great media lawyer in DC and what a lawyer. So this was in late ninety six ninety seven what a blur. Typically would do is raise a first amendment. But Koroma has heard about section two thirty. He says, let's give this a shop and judge judge Ellis accepts his argument. And I think the of people who figure the fourth circuit, which is the appellate court would reverse it. Because no one's ever interpreted this before other than judge Ellis, but to ails luck, the panel on the Frick shirk, which time was apparently conservative court had one one judge on the panel Jay Harvey Wilkinson who's a Reagan appointee. But also former newspaper editor, and he writes, this very eloquent lengthy the opinion where he basically says section to thirty is meant to promote free speech and prohibits of liability for on line services. And so that became really the law of the land. And that has been the case cited more than any other section to thirty case. And that's really a stab list this very broad protection for section two thirty. Why did why did they oh well refused to take the ads stat or or the the comments, and and again, this is, you know, for people now thinking about it, you know, AOL back then was known for being the place. If you want to have a private online presence, you would get a AOL because they didn't require you to soc demonstrate who you are in your communications, you know, everybody had faked names or whatever. But why didn't they just take down the offending material? Well. From my review of the case files, which are fairly extensive with ladders that Zahren it his lawyer had written. It seems like AOL did take some steps. But there was just fairly frankly, a decent amount of incompetence at the customer service end. So zarem elapsed the Iowa we all remember yet. Exactly. So it wasn't anything malicious and Zarin also wanted things like a retraction because I mean, there there was a point where there was a disc jockey in Oklahoma City who read the ad online in that caused even more caucus Aaron really wanted to get something on the record ails said. We don't do that. I mean, frankly, I o L didn't know how to handle something like this. It was pretty clear that they I mean that he he faxed the Zahren facts them a letter it was about two weeks later that AOL responded. So so I think that the the pace of ails response was really a big problem. You you, right? Right at various points at an slightly different phraseology. But that the internet is different. And you talk about internet exceptionalism. What what do you mean by that? And how did that how did that kind of guy the way that two-thirty thirty was being treated so section thirty really embodies this idea of internet exceptionalism, which is that we need to treat the internet differently than other media because it closes this great potential for free speech in for the economy and section two thirty really at least as judge Wilkinson interpreted. It really embodies this idea that we have to treat the internet differently. So we don't treat the internet like a winter's to the section of a newspaper page because the letter letters to the editor for a newspaper page, don't don't pose the potential to create all these jobs in free speech opportunity. So that that's really the hot. Part of at least house section two-thirty was interpreted early on his that is that part of it. Because unlike traditional media say whether two TV's station or a radio station or or a newspaper there seems to be an infinite amount of space others there's room for everybody. Exactly. So it's more of a two way really a multi lateral communication rather than just a one way communication like television or a newspaper page or a magazine. And that was really the idea of how what made the internet. So different is that you could just you had this infinite potential for communication that. You just didn't have is other media. So you write the internet is different or, you know, there's internet exceptionalism. But then you also write that section two thirty is really a uniquely American law, and at one point you, and I'm quoting from your book, you say imagine a world in which Google were held legally responsible for a seemingly infinite number of websites that are index in its search engine. You know, and that it's true. Like, that's a it's a completely different world. You know that we would be in without it. But in many ways that approach or that world is kind of like Europe and a bunch of other countries. Can you discuss how say the e you approached internet speech freedom is different than the American, and which which side do you without becoming a, you know, a jingoistic patriot. Why is the American approach better, which you I mean, you definitively basically stayed in the book so America has always Baillieu free speech above the other values such as privacy. I think that's probably the biggest contrast with the European Union in particular. They have they really view privacy and data protection as this undiminished human right that in the United States. We don't so in in each to give one example the the right to be forgotten which allows. People who are written about online under certain circumstances to have their certain search results DA decks, so you could look at and I I'm somewhat quizzical on this because I can see it both ways having been a journalist. I've had some things written about me that I haven't liked all that much, and I would sure like to be able to easily take them down. But at the on the other side of the spectrum, I see the real benefits of being able to have this sort of unvarnished information out there because that's really central to the American ideals of speech. So for one example, if I'm an employer who is looking to hire someone I probably wanna know if I can Google them. I'd wanna know, you know, have they been convicted of certain crimes have bay been fired for wrongdoing before her if I'm the employees who wants to have a fresh start that that's a different story. So it really is a trade off on these Val. In you, write that in the first decade of section to thirty lawsuits. The courts gave mostly sweeping immunity to sites and services very clear that they were taking this seriously. An and certain instances kind of mind boggling, even a somebody like may free speech absolutists nine what I'm kind of amazed that you that websites wouldn't get in trouble for having you know, people post fake accounts. And then refusing the take the fake accounts down that you say terrible things about a person, etc. But the courts must be ruled in favor of the sites and maximum freedom. But then you say since kind of the mid two thousand tens not so much. What what is what's an example of the shift away from sweeping to thirty immunity. And what do you think is driving that that shift? So I think part of it is the complexity of the increased complexity of services that are offer. So one example would be the roommates dot com case ninth circuit, and this was a roommate matching website that allowed people to go online create a profile in state what they're looking for in a roommate and some of the questions they asked for things like what gender. Do you prefer? Do you prefer to ever mates who don't have children have children, and at least one night, one housing nonprofit alleged that that was a violation of federal and state housing discrimination. So the ninth circuit if shoot a split ruling where basically said for anything that someone just goes in types in the open ended sections of the ads that's not that that's protected by section two thirty clearly, but for any ads that are developed in response to questions that solicit allegedly discriminatory responses that is not protect by section because the this is basic. The website helping to create content and that really set this broad precedent. That's been used in a lot of other cases of looking at whether these platforms materially contributed to the illegal content. And the irony of the whole thing is that once the case was argued on its merits the night circuit found that there was no violation of discrimination laws. So almost a a case that didn't need to get to the section thirty issues, but that's one one area. And I think the other issue is that frankly, the tech companies now are so much larger and more powerful than they had been in the past. And I'll say. Some of them have displayed a huge amount of arrogance. And you you have to always remember section thirty is inherently a creature of congress and the. There's an increasing reluctance to at least among some people to saying what why would we provide this immunity to these large arrogant companies that are at least, according to some critics responsible for every problems side. So that I think that's really what's driving along. But yeah, you you write that to thirty is not a birthright of the internet that can be discarded, amended, limited whatever. But, but you also do want to persist can you talk about the future of two thirty first of why why is it good? And one of the things that out as a parenthetical all at the book is extremely well written, and you tell I mean, your your journalists in a legal scholar and a lawyer. So I mean, it's it's a really interesting mix of stuff, and you tell really fascinating and kind of perplexing stories in ways that are easy to follow. But why is it important and one of the things you stress is that, you know, the the harms to individuals. Who are being defamed or liable on on in many of these cases is real, and it's and it's problematic. And of course, people can always try and sue the person who has libeling them or defaming them. But it's hard to find those people often, but why is it important that to thirty persist because the current system that we have the current internet that we have is really built on section thirty. So rather than having a sweeping overhaul that really, I think would have a lot of unintended consequences. I what I what I would prefer to have is some sort of. Some more accountability and responsibility among the platforms to say, okay. We we have these services that in some cases are being weapon. Against individuals on causing some serious harms. But rather than just get rid of section two thirty which by the way won't even solve a lot of these problems. They get rid of section two thirty let let's figure out a way to better justify why we have section two thirty in the first place, and I think that's hard. And I think that the tech companies have been reluctant to really engage in that discussion. But that's far preferable than just saying. Okay. We're gonna get rid of section two thirty altogether. Because as we've seen in section two thirty has been abrogated. There are a lot of consequences arising from companies just being really risk averse and saying, okay, we're not going to allow us a content. What I mean are there ways to minimize harms Costas specific people without really, strangling, free expression. Or do you have like a model law or a good example of where where a good balance is struck. Well, so I think the. Platforms have to be more thoughtful. And I think there are some examples that I give him the book, for example, Pinterest had had a problem where there were a number of users who were posting content that promoted eating disorders and Pinterest. I I think they deserve a lot of pay. They went out of their way to work with the national eating disorders association to come up with keywords that would be they'd be able to flag for content that perhaps would it be appropriate for the site or would require for the review. And I think that's the really awful type of. Moderation that section thirty allows and actually enables and Santa Claus encourages. Right. That's the whole idea is that it was giving giving private platform space to develop what what they wanted to have as the mores of their particular online community. Exactly. So why do you think, you know, clearly, it seems like sites like Twitter and Facebook and whatnot thir- struggling with this. I mean, they spend in Reno an increasing an enormous amount of time to begin with an increasing amount of time trying to police content. Partly and I'm assuming part of it is they don't want to Allie Nate their user base. They also don't want to necessarily poke poke the legislators who might kind of screw them. But are are they just bad at it? Or are they or is it just it? It's too complicated. A task. So it's hard, and I would suggest anyone read tarleton Gillespie is recent book custodians of the internet, which really goes. Into what my what moderation in kale's? And so it's not an easy task in a is not going to solve everything and Facebook, frankly, has never gonna hire enough reviewers able to catch everything, but they could be doing a lot better. I mean, there's there's some examples where I would somethings like the Facebook Facebook, basically allowing discriminatory categories for its advertisements. That's something that could be fixed really easily and that that really requires more of a commitment to to reviewing all these procedures, and you're not gonna catch every bit of harmful content. But but you you can make some structural changes that would prevent certain these rapid fire negative headlines from constantly arising. What do you what do you think the role of a kind of broad based media literacy or different approach to that? What what's the? Role of that in all of this. You know, one of the one of the promises of social media era. And I got I guess I'm dating myself here. I don't I don't know if social media's web two point our web, three point our something. But you know, I it's it's part of it is the idea, and it's it's inherent in in the early days of the internet. But that it's ultimately, it's user, it's user driven experience. And what social media does is gives you vast tools as an individual consumer of content to say, I want more of this. I want less of this you go to hell with this. How much of it is that what we need less than more laws or more rules are people who take more seriously their their time on the internet and how they want to kind of curate their experience. Yes. So I think that that really gets to a good point that section to thirty really is about user power. I mean that that when you look the legislative history. It's the idea that we want to empower the users by basically creating these market demands that. Pressure the platforms for certain things. So I I do think that some of the harms can be dealt with through sort of increased awareness in increased education. But I think so some of the harms also there was a the they often target people who might not even have any connection to the platform that that are being harmed. Other was a recent case in the second circuit where there was a man who went who who's X fiscal wanted to get revenge on him when onto a dating app, and basically just started poker posing as the individual and inviting and inviting hundreds and hundreds of people to his home in work demanding sex, very aggressively. This really was horrific and really ruined the guy's life. And that's the type of thing where we I think anyone defending section to thirty has to take. Hard look at that and say, how are the platforms gonna stop this sort of thing from happening? Because I frankly when I when I said at the beginning of this podcasts that I that this might be an obituary perception to thirty that's really not an overstatement. I think you have all of these cases and the there's not really any clear answers to them in their people with incredibly sympathetic situations. So we really have to figure out how to the platforms take these pins were seriously yet when you look at the political situation what you see happening over the next. I don't know six months or a couple of years. I personally get really sweaty whenever in general when I hear conservative Republicans and kind of liberal or progressive Democrats kind of saying the same thing. And you know, you're hearing that over section two thirty, you know, Nancy Pelosi called it a sweetheart deal Ted Cruz and Josh Holly and others have called it that for Google and Facebook, what do you think's going to happen? You know, I I'd like to know any other issue where Nancy Pelosi in Ted Cruz. Agreed. And of course, they agree for different reasons. And it's because Pelosi thinks Facebook was negligent. So that it tipped the election Dina towards Donald Trump and Cruz. Thanks Facebook is geologically motivated against conservative. So he. Yeah. But it's it's creepy. Right. You know that they're they're kind of saying they're singing the same song. I think that the discussion on Capitol Hill needs to be beyond. Just let's get rid of section two thirty it has to be then what? And that's not the discussion I've been hearing. So we get rid of section two thirty. What happens next is that going to eliminate any perceived political bias is it going to stop the Russians from trying to interfere in our elections. I I don't I don't see necessarily the connection between the two. Now, I will say that. At least the way section to thirty has been primed often. Rightly so is that it's a benefit to the large technology companies, which it is. But it I think the the we also have to look at sort of the daily ways life where being able to communicate freely and openly benefits, not just the technology companies in that side of the story isn't necessarily be told what do you how do you feel when you know, just in the past year, we've had a high level and by high level, I mean, like the C E O's of places like Google Facebook Twitter going before congress and saying, yeah, you know, it is time for us to be regulated will help you write the regulations because you don't really understand what. We do. And I mean, Mark Zuckerberg explicitly said this in congressional testimony that I'll help you write at. And you do realize that that means there won't probably ever be the ever be another Facebook. Are you okay with that? It is how how do you deal with the question of kind of regulatory capture or, you know, the kind of public choice the mentioned to what's happening now. Yeah. So I practice lawn DC for long enough can regulatory capture is real. And it's spectacular. It is spectacular especially when you have companies that are operating in a space where many members of congress don't function on a daily basis. Now, I'll say I'm not speaking on behalf of DOD or the naval academy just on seltzer. I'll say that there. There's sort of related issue that I've been involved in of how do you make congress smarter about technology issues? There is this movement to revive the office of tech. Analogy assessment which was actually closed in the nineteen nineties in head scientists and engineers who informed congress about technology issues, and that sort of thing would be vital before we have Congress working with the tech companies to create this morass regulations of part of what I'm concerned about is that any of these regulations will be palatable for perhaps the googles of the world, but maybe not so powerful palatable for the next Google's world, and that that that gives me real positive concerned. So the final section of your book includes a bunch by graphical details, which are fascinating you were born in nineteen seventy eight and you and you talk about the role, then these old mostly forgotten how I guess pre internet online services played in your in your life, though, a prodigy, CompuServe, etc. And expanding your world is I I guess I have two final questions. One is like is. Is part of what's happening? Now is that all of the newness, and the kind of utopian possibilities of the internet that, you know, we're we're kind of over that now, and it's just the day to day thing in these companies are kind of getting middle age, and, you know, their gigantic, and they're kind of bullies. They're no longer scrappy or whatever their so that you just get tired of this kind of stuff, and you want to you just wanna make it easier to deal with with less problems. It's just a, you know, the internet is mature space. And you know, it has to grow up is that you know, is that part of what we're seeing here. And then also, and this is a more pointed question, are you writing not necessarily know bitch wary for two thirty, but for the internet as you knew it as a kid, and that this is really kind of, you know, just the an elegy for the internet you grow up with rather than the internet, we deserve or should have. So I think that this very well could be. Obituary for really not section thirty. But for this open internet because there have been went when you compare it to when I was growing up there were harms, but they perhaps were not on the same scope and this level of publicity because they're frankly were having about forty million people on on the internet worldwide as what compared to rebuilding. So I think that's part of it. And I think that we don't have it doesn't have to be a binary decision. We could perhaps find a way to make the platforms more responsive and try to cut out some of the really bad stuff without shutting down the internet altogether. But that's hard because we don't it's harder to make the internet exceptionalism argument anymore because as you said more established, it's more a it's perhaps an is many. It's not so exception. Anymore because it's such a fundamental part of our everyday lives that really wasn't in nineteen ninety six. Well, we're going to leave it there. I wanna thank Jeff CASA fuse, the author of the twenty six words that created the internet. He teaches law and cybersecurity at the US naval academy. Jeff, thanks so much for talking. Thanks so much. This has been the reason podcast. I been your host nNcholas be pleased subscribed to his said apple podcasts at Google Spotify. It San clad have reason dot com anywhere, you get your podcast on. And if you can leave a common less know how we're doing. Thanks so much for listening.

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President Jimmy Carter Comes to Class | S2 Bonus

Buried Truths

31:12 min | 2 years ago

President Jimmy Carter Comes to Class | S2 Bonus

"Support for the berry truths podcast comes from Morehouse healthcare, who's obstetrics gynecologic and family medicine, physicians nurses, and staff provide compassionate care and innovative medicine to women throughout metro Atlanta. Learn more online at Morehouse healthcare dot com. Hi, this is Hank Klebanov. And before we start, I wanna tell you about another podcast, you might be interested in. It's called white lies in nineteen sixty five Reverend James rebe was murdered and some Alabama three men were tried and acquitted, but no one was ever held to account fifty years later to journalists from Alabama. Which happens to be my home state return to the town where it happened. They exposed the lies that kept the murder from being solved. And they uncover a story about guilt and memory that says much about America today as it does about the past. Listen and subscribe to white lies an NPR podcast about one man's murder and its consequences available on apple podcasts. NPR one or wherever you listen to podcasts. This is buried truth. I'm Hank clipping off. For this episode a conversation as my Emory University class sifted through the details of AC hall's death. We wanted to get a better sense of what life was like back in rural Georgia in nineteen sixty two well, lucky us guess who? Serendipitous -ly asked if he could come meet my class, a former president of the United States, ninety four year old Jimmy Carter. President Carter is the university distinguished professor at Emory and every semester, he visits and participates in classes throughout the university. So in his aide Steve Hochman called offering visit to the Georgia's civil rights cold cases class that I teach I jumped at that opportunity, not just because he is a former president, in fact, not even because he is a former president. I did it. Because I knew that in October nineteen sixty two the same month that hall was shot and killed by white police officers in Macon thirty eight year old Jimmy Carter was making his first bid for political office. He was running for the Georgia state Senate, and a seven candy district southwest of Macon. So in October twenty eighteen president Carter came to my classroom. And here in edited form is how our conversation went he opened by telling us what he'd learned about race from his parents. I grew up in archery Georgia, which is west of plays Georgia, which is now about seven hundred people, and I was in a totally segregated environment. We were the only white family around, and we had about fifty African American families living around us, and my mother was very liberal on the rice issue, my father when I called into the customer, those days to insist on segregation and. My mother never paid any attention to the customs that were he's this did. She never did look down at all on African American people that she sure them as equals. And she could get away with it, because she was a registered nurse. She was part of the medical profession plays, George. My little town, had a very large and very important hospital at that time, it did research, work on surgery and anesthesiology, and their use of radium treatment, so mother devoted her life after dead. He got a little bit more fluent to nursing and the homes of African Americans who are neighbors. She worked twenty hours a day and she was opposed to get paid six dollars a day. But she read it got paid. And he says, sometimes you get paid with a pig or something like that, awesome eggs. But she got off duty every night at ten o'clock, and she came home and wash their uniform and took a shower and, and left me and my two sisters are not what we. To do the next day with chores, and if you went back on duty to o'clock in the morning, so she was just off duty four hours a day. So we had a kind of a mixed family in our dealings with a ratio problem. I do that the African American kids went to different schools and churches from us. But I thought it was kind of their choice. I didn't really realize what was going on. But I did realize later, that African Americans were not permitted to vote authors jury of any kind grand jury, or trial jury. So the students actually have some questions that they've drafted and about that period of time you want. Incidentally, this is shayla Vasquez. A senior from Florida who just graduated with her degree in neuro behavioral biology. Liberal. Be more on the mother side of liberals in your. You know, I, I don't think I can honestly claim to have been on my mother's side until I was in the navy. When I went to the naval academy, we had one black midshipmen, African-American midshipmen, and he was a couple of classes behind me. And, and a lot of the white midshipmen hapless tried to force him out. His name was Brown, and he was only cross coach team with me, he, and he was a better run of ours, by the way. But, but. Brown was worst by classmates, and I defended him because he was my friend goes, I was more liberal than her south. And so he really appreciate he wrote a book later and gave me a lot of credit for, for his staying naval academy. They had been five previous midshipmen down to the years, it all been forced out by white segregationists. Michigan. So now, this is now never kademi and westbound pre-event. But I, I would say that, that nineteen forty eight when Harry Truman, ordained that the military force, including submarine force, where I was would be integrated that was when I first saw the benefits that could accrue from treating everybody quickly. And when I came home for a navy, I still had that I came home at fifty nine hundred fifty three still had that believe that we should do away with racial prejudice around. Do you have of course, this is Ari Ana Murray? A student from Ohio, who was double majoring in African American studies and psychology. You've mentioned that your mother was ruled as a nurse. I was wondering if you could hops speak to you relationships like interactions between other white women in this house, and in Georgia like with other people were there is your options. What were they like? You know, I don't know much about that. I knew the women in planes with my mother played poker in and so forth bridge, and she was contrary in attitude to toward race from all the other women, but they didn't bother my mother, because she was a powerful woman, and also because she was a registered nurse and the medical people will kind of sacrosanct in planes would ultimate in know society. So I would say that mother who would into fish when she was sixty eight. She was in, in India was always very, very liberal. For instance, one of the customs it seems strange now was it? No African American could come to the front door of apply person's house, you had to come to the back door of white person's house. Bishop Johnson had a son, who was in Harvard University. And when he would come home on vacation, he would come out front door and knock on the front door. And my mother would go out to meet him in my father would go out the back door and kind of hotel the way. But by dad had never did try to constrain my mother in her which would have been impossible. But. But. That's the way it was. The next question comes from another student of mine. Mariah dough J of Missouri. She's majoring in African American studies and sociology. That of your views didn't change eve. To know how why did you did you use the spectres as a kid? How did the white media? How did the right media affect your views growing up? Well, the white media was basically in favour. Everybody in Georgia just about. There was publishing a newspaper or anything else was in favor of racial segregation, so was the supreme court. So was the house of Representative so was US Senate. So we'll all the president's so was American boss association. There was never any demand until modifications union came along and Rosa Parks and handy Andy young and others that we change those laws and most people in the south. And in other parts of it nation is well, we'll against doing away with Sergei Shen and most of the white people approved of it because they were better off. They got good jobs. They got the best pay, they got the best colleges and universities. And so even those people who profess to be liberals and who might March. With Martin Luther King junior. In alabama. I think kind of privately they thought it was basically. Okay, because they were that children are better off, and they were better off, they got, they got the privileges. And I've said the news media almost overwhelmingly will control about white people then. On question. If I might just throwing up, how did you end is a young adult? And then as a state Senator, how did you resist on Sunday morning? Not pulling some people decide say and challenging them on their hypocrisy. How can you claim to be a right thinking Christian when I know what you're doing in your life? And I know that you have hatred in your heart for black people. And I know that you discriminate against them in your business. Or maybe these were people who might have had citizens council or clan connections. Did you ever have to face that ready because I was completely immersed and African American culture on my mother was a registered nurse. I just wanted out she was on duty twenty hours a day. My daddy was hard working guy in a field, and I was raised by an American women. I wrote a book appointments once and. I pull them in the book is about Rachel a African American woman named Rachel Clark who was my hero and my hero in, I'd say, political and economic and church affairs was African American Bishop. We have deca Johnson. He lived next door to me, but he was in Choi was African American Bishop of five northern states. And when Bishop Johnson would come home to archery well, live to go to his church, which was a Saint more African Methodist episcopal church, which was his home church. It would be top headlines in kind of newspaper, and he drove a great big Packard or Cadillac, always. He didn't drive. He had a chauffeur. Well, Bishop Johnson died in nineteen thirty six when I was still living. I didn't graduate from high forty one so Bishop Johnson was to me the appear to me of ultimate success. He had a school of his own elementary school and house goalie. He published a magazine. He had a little insurance company. Then he had. But did you not encounter wipes? You thought we're being hypocritical. I that would you? But, you know, the, the Why's that why should ostentatiously abuse, African Americans were looked down on by my parents and other responsible white people in our town. There was a very harmonious relationship between the African Americans in planes and the and the other people that do by people are new. In, in end of my. The best book, I've ever ridden told our before daylight, I told it in the final chapter. I think I tried to, to name the five people who shaped my life, other than my mother daddy, and one of them was my high school teacher. And in other words, my uncle, but three out of the five African American people, and one of them was Bishop Johnson was racial clock. Another was. Sharecropper on phone. They want us, right? But, but, but, you know, my life was shaped by black, people African American people. And, and so. My daddy would would would condemn severely. Sometimes confront white person who penalty abuse, African American cheated them on, on our settlement or something like that. This is buried truths. And I'm Hank lubinov, and we're listening to former president, Jimmy Carter who spoke to my class last October. He was helping my students better understand the year nineteen sixty to support for berry truths comes from Georgia, cancer, specialists, affiliated with northside hospital Cancer Institute in treating patients at twenty six locations information on Georgia cancer specialists found at G cancer dot com. The cancer answer. You know, I've been pretty fortunate that twice since I've been teaching at Emory. President Carter has come to one of my classes and both times. I have thought about the first time I got to see president Carter. He was governor Carter at the time. And it was in nineteen seventy two and a happened to come into Atlanta to visit with a newspaper in Gainesville Georgia while I was a graduate student doing some stories for them the editor of the Gainesville paper picks me up at the train station and says, there's something important going on under the gold dome, the state capitol, and we wanna go see it come along. So we get in the car we go to the gold dome, and we walk into the chamber of the house of representatives, and it is packed with people, and it's over heated. And the reason they're all gathered is that governor Carter, he's going to call for a complete reorganization of Georgia. Government from something like I'm thinking, sixty six agencies to I don't know, maybe fourteen something like that. And he's standing up against terrific opposition from entrenched forces in the legislature, but Carter is determined to win the day on this government who organization plan and he stands up before the legislature and gives this rip snorting speech and he's pushing so hard that I can see this whole atmosphere his turned into basically a sauna. And he is perspiring I on his forehead, and then his entire body. He's perspiring through his suit, and I'm thinking, whatever it is he wants he's willing to sacrifice a lot to get it. He's losing about ten pounds here and I want, you know, he finished up his talk and ultimately came to a vote of the legislature. And in one chamber, he ended up winning. Passage by one vote. And this may all seem to have been unimportant history except for one thing within three to four years. Governor Carter is running for president and he's running as the engineer as the peanut farmer as the businessman, and as the person who can tame our federal government to make it much more streamlined and much more effective, and it all happened on that day because had he not one passage of that, Bill. He would never have been able to use that idea that I know more than anybody else about how to make our government work. So back to the store after graduating from the US naval academy, and serving on a navy submarine all over the world. Jimmy Carter returned to plains, Georgia to take over the family business peanut farming by nineteen sixty two which you recall was the year that AC hall was shot and killed Jimmy Carter was chairman of the Sumpter county school board, and here's how he describes the racial attitudes from that vantage point. When I got on a school board, I was very eager. And so I asked the other school board members all of whom it served longer than I had, when I brand new on why don't we visit all the schools in Sumpter county and they all agreed? So I revisit the white schools, and we had two high schools, and three elementary schools, and they will really well constructed. They were brick buildings or so forth, and then we decided we, visit African American schools. Also. And there were twenty six schools, competitive three white elementary schools. The reason they were Twitter's six is because each school, which was opened in a large living room, or in a church building or something like that, or dilapidated wooden building had to be an within walking distance of students because we didn't have buses America. The kids we had buses, but why kids but not for black kids. And so I, I wanted to do away with that. So we've got the schools they school board to, to authorize Africa. Americans have school buses and the legislature ordained that the buses loaded with African American children had have their front to fend is painted black. It's a bursar to me to say that now. I didn't agree with it. But that was a society within which we live, and that was the Georgia legislature, it, they thought they were doing good, look good job giving school Bush responded to African American Kish, but they wanted everybody to know that a bus was holding black. He has said of white kids and all that time all the school boards in Georgia were reported by the grand juries. There was an election for school board membership. So it was completing white affair, and we had five school board members and I was hard working. So I was soon elected chairman of the school board. And it was in that time that I was serving in nineteen sixty two when this killing took place in making and I had decided since the segregation was permeating our school system that I wanted to do something about it. I was kind of an idealist and I thought that I would run for the. State senate. So I could kind of keep the schools open, we had a governor call, Ernie Vanda, and he was governor then. And he would hold up one finger and say, no not one which meant that. No black child, whatever come into a white school class, in schools about public schools that he was shut down the school system. I so I that was a environment. When I ran for the state Senate, I ran on a seven county area and one of my counters were Whitman county and quickly county was bossed by a man named Joe Hirst, who control the county completely and quickly county contrary to most counters in Georgia African Americans were welcome to vote. But I would say they were voted instead of they voted they were voted Joe Hirsch would bring them in Malaya Bellas for them. And then check off names on the vote. List and so forth. So that was the case in that I was in an in that election about which I've written a book called turning-point, which by the way is still on sale. It was a turning point in Georgia because I was the same year that the they ru one person one vote, a one band one voted in those days and was a county unit system where a person like Joe Hurst control. A little tiny candidate only had twenty four hundred people in it, and that had one third is many county units as a at Fulton County. So one voter in Whitman county had a hundred times more power than one voter in Fulton County. That was the way it had been for many, many years in Georgia. But that's what it, that's what changed. And so that was exactly the year that this crime took place. And so I didn't know anything about what is happening in Macon, Georgia, I was worried about quitting champion. Joe Hirsch, and, and gentle it to the state Senate when Iran is a matter of fact, Joe hers, south developed box, not only with African Americans. Fellows, but also with the que- hasn't, oh, timid white people. The Atlanta Journal who investigated the, the election where I lost very narrowly said at one hundred seventeen people voted completely alphabetically down to the third digit names. And a lot of those people are dead in prison, and there was not an absentee ballots, in it vote, but, but that that election was finally overthrown, and I went to the to the state Senate, I only made one requests and that I was, I'll be put on education committee. And while I was only education media was chairman of the university committee, so that, that shows you kind of what the problem was in Georgia for his race race issue. Concerned. After winning the state Senate seat. Jimmy Carter ran for him was elected Georgia governor in nineteen seventy one, I was replacing Lester matters. He was a arch segregationist who won the governorship because the legislation appoint him because they knew that he was with preserve segregation and his symbol with a pick handle that he used to wave around and threaten any black person that came to his chicken restaurant in Atlanta, and he and he was elected because of that. So I replaced him in the governor's mansion and on my in my Dogaru address which was very brief. I said that the time for racial discrimination in Georgia is over. And that was in seventy one, you know, six or seven years after the Voting Rights Act was passed, and it was still prevailed in Georgia as he spoke to my students. He took us inside the governor's match to tell us a story about good, old fashioned corruption in the Krimmer. The Justice system, Georgia like many southern states for the longest time, placed model prisoners inside the governor's mansions to cook to serve at formal dinners to clean to tend the gardens and to do so much more governors their wives, their children state agency heads secretaries. They all got to know inmates and the inmates often obtained early release through their good service. So president Carter shared with my students, a story about one of those inmates. When I got to the Georgia governor's mansion in nine hundred seventy one the oldest servants in the governor's mentioned above prisoners and mostly women prisoners, and we had a cook there, and she came to me, one day and said, she wanted to bar, two hundred fifty dollars to get out of prison, and I said, you know, that's Buddhist. You, you can't get out of prison by paying two hundred fifty dollars. Two. And by the way, I don't believe any lawyer is worth two hundred fifty dollars in your case, which was I, I never was a very friendly with lawyers anyway. She said, no, I want to pay the judge. I said how long have you been in prison? She's at five years. And I've got two more years ago said the church in east Georgia had told her that she had to pay seven hundred fifty dollars. I'll go to prison for seven seventy years. And she had already served five years, and she had raised five hundred dollars and paid it to the church, but she's still lacked two hundred fifty dollars. I was a governor. So I had the attorney general of Georgia investigated, and just a few days. She was not a prison before. President Carter came to my class, I had provided him with extensive information summarizing, the AC hall case he had fully absorbed it, and he fully understood it. So here he is talking about policing and police officers back in one thousand nine hundred sixty two inch Georgia and about the criminal Justice system as he knew it then. The police in those days were very low paid and, and there was no training program for them at all. Nope training for law enforcement officers, and, and in Georgia. In fact, that year in nine hundred sixty to the legislative finally authorized the first training program for police officers in Georgia. So they will low paid. And, and somebody said that if they weren't overweight and could read and write they were qualified to be a police officer. So the police officers though were treated with great care, people honored police officers, and they were protected under Georgia law. In fact. A police officer. He he was accused of any crime could participate in the investigative committees, the grand jury and so forth, that would try to something for Chromebooks have been committed, and they could testify and that testimony could not be questioned, and they were not under oath. So they could testify not under oath, and that low was not changed until twenty sixteen. As a matter of fact, it was first time that law was changed. But you say police officers were always all white, and the jury's who's determined whether they committed a crime, not well, white and strangely enough in this particular case, I, I read some of the briefing that I got that the car is jury with five people on it determined that. It was murder and police house had a right to testify before Carter's student to. I'm sure they testified but. But of course you decided it was murder. And then when a grand jury went into session. I don't know how much you know, about the love of the grand jury has to come down with a true Bill. And if they come out with a true Bill, they determined the crime has actually been committed, and the person who accused can be tried for it. So when a grand jury met they had twenty two members all white, and they rube a quicker that no crime had been committed. So that was what okay altercation was and, and this young seventeen year old I'll had been killed by these two policemen firing at him. When the when the car is your at least said he was running the other way and bullets hit him in the back that killed him. But as has pointed out, there was no way that he could have been guilty of a crime that the white woman accused him of. And that was sitting husbands pistol. So, so that was the way was you're, you're a quick study. You know. I think we've used all of our times that right, Steve. Okay. Golly, thank you. Thank you. All. That was the former president of the United States. Jimmy Carter speaking with my Georgia's civil rights cold cases class at Emory University, last October president Carter is Emory, University distinguished, professor. And we're so glad that he took the time to talk with us. By the way, there is one more episode of berry truth this season. And that's the berry truths live event that we recorded at the Morehouse school of medicine in late may, I really think you're gonna like this. You'll get to hear several of the people who were so important to season to bury truth people like Howard more junior. The attorney for the hall family for his mother curly hall, you'll get to hear Newt Collier, who was AC halls friend, and who later went onto a career play in the horns for the soul group Sam, and Dave, you'll get to hear from the Bibb county sheriff David Davis, who's remarks during that podcast were so impressive LaTasha Morrison of be the bridge. We'll talk about racial healing, and you'll hear Jill Savitt the president and CEO the National Center for civil and human rights in Atlanta. It's an all star group of people, and we had a wonderful night, and I think you'll enjoy listening to it. Look for that episode. And about a week or so. I'm Hank Kluban off. And this is buried truths, a production of. W A B E at Atlanta.

Georgia President Carter president Senate Emory University murder Atlanta president and CEO Bishop Johnson US naval academy Alabama chairman Macon United States America Steve Hochman NPR Joe Hirsch
forebear

Merriam-Webster's Word of the Day

01:42 min | 8 months ago

forebear

"Merriam Webster's word of the day for October sixth. Today's word is forebear spelled as one word F., R. E. B. E. A. R. forebear is a noun that means ancestor forefather or precursor. Here's the word used in a sense although several of her male forebears had graduated from the US Naval Academy Tina was the first woman from her family to do so. The word forbear also spelled sometimes without the initial E F O R B e a r was first used by our ancestors in the days of Middle English for F. O. R. E. means coming before just as in forefather and bear means one that is This bear is not to be confused with the bear in the unrelated verb for their which comes from the old English Baron meaning to bear or carry the bear in the Noun. forbear is a combination of. From the verb to be or more specifically from being an old dialect variant of B and a are a form of the SUFFIX E R which we append to verbs to denote one that performs a specified action. In this case, the action is simply existing or being in other words. Bear implies one who is a beer. With your word of the day I'm Peter Sokolski visit Merriam Webster Dot, com today for definitions wordplay and trending word look ups.

E F O R B Merriam Webster Merriam Webster Dot R. E. B. E. A. R. forebear US Naval Academy Peter Sokolski Tina F. O. R. E.
ARRL Audio News - May 3, 2019

ARRL Audio News

09:32 min | 2 years ago

ARRL Audio News - May 3, 2019

"This is A R. L audio news your weekly summary of news highlights from the world of amateur radio. If you retransmit audio news through a repeater, listen for the Morse code k character, followed by four seconds of silence that your cue to stop transmitting. So that your repeater timer can reset. I'm Carla Pereira, Casey one HSS, and these are stories for Friday may third in reply comments to the FCC on its petition for rulemaking or R M one one eight two eight A R L has stressed that updating h f privileges for the entry level technician license is these sole subject and intense of the petition A R L filed its reply comments on April twenty ninth urging the FCC to disregard comments irrelevant to its petition and maintaining that technician. Privileges must be relevant within the context of today's technological environment. A r l. Cerdic, quote, the increasingly rapid pace of change and communications technologies coupled with the national need for self training and science technology, engineering and math necessity the rule changes requested unquote, A R L characterize its proposal to update the rules as balanced and modest A R L said, quote, if adopted there would be no change to the operating privileges for all licensed classes, other than those of technician class unquote, A R L in two thousand eighteen asked the sea to expand h f privileges for technician licensees to include limited phone privileges on seventy five forty and fifteen meters, plus ready and digital mo- privileges on eighty forty and fifteen meters the FCC invited comments on the proposal in April. A r L said some opposition appears to be based on fears of increase interference potential due to additional digital operation by technicians. The comments note the development of very efficient digital modes such as f- T eight which occupies just ninety hurts of spectrum per signal. A R L further said that comments regarding disagreement on the definition of encryption for masking, the content of certain digital transmissions also are out of place and should not delay. Initiation of the preceding to update technician privileges. The army military auxiliary radio system or Mars will host the traditional military amateur radio communication tests to Mark the sixty eighth annual armed forces day or af AFDC on Saturday may eleventh. The event is open to all radio. Amateurs armed forces day is may eighteenth. But the cross band military amateur radio event. Traditionally takes place one week earlier in order to avoid conflicting with him mention complete information, including military stations. Modes and frequencies is available on the US. Army Mars website during the event military stations in various locations will transmit on selected military frequencies and announce the specific ham frequencies. They are monitoring military stations expected to be on the air for the event include those in Arizona Japan, Hawaii Okinawa. Washington DC and elsewhere in the contiguous states, the USS midway, the USS Yorktown, the USS Iowa L S T three to five and the US naval academy in an apples and the Newport, naval radio station museum in Rhode Island. The Mars common Mars radio. Nationwide networks will have multiple stations on the air across the continental US. An armed forces day. Message will be transmitted utilizing the military standard serial PS K way form an one one zero followed by military standard wide shift. Eight fifty Hertz. Really the message will also be sent on CW amateur radio will play a role in this summer's twenty four th world scout jamboree in West Virginia. The jamboree has chosen the theme unlock new world thousands of scouts and scout leaders from some two hundred countries are expected to attend the jamborees amateur radio exhibit will use the call sign an a one WJ it. Will be on the air during the event from July twenty second until August second at the summit Bech tell reserve organizers are encouraging radio amateurs around the globe to get on the air during the world jamboree to help NA one WJ demonstrate amateur radio for jamboree visitors. The two thousand nineteen world scout jamboree operation at the summit. Budge till scout reserve will take advantage of lessons learned by the K to BSA amateur radio operation during the two thousand thirteen and two thousand seventeen USA national jamborees. It will also take advantage of the existing infrastructure, which includes three VHF UHF repeaters installed by icon America as well. As the utility poles for installing Tana's K to BSA ham gear stored in West Virginia includes antennas rotator and cables evening operation from NA. One WJ will involve at least two operators using the buddy system. And now with this week satellite update. Here's Bruce page. K K five DO we are getting close to ham venturing, if you're planning on going be sure to stop by the booth which is numbers one thousand seven through one thousand ten and eleven hundred seven through seven hundred ten you might just find me there this year at least on Friday and Saturday if you have some spare time on Thursday before the ham. Venture and starts set will have the sad academy from nine AM to five PM at the Dayton amateur association clubhouse. The registration includes the two thousand nineteen digital copy of getting started with amateur satellites and a one year basic membership as well as a pizza lunch drop on by the app sat dot org website. And visit the am set online store for registration and further information. Amps have forum on Friday from one fifteen to two fifteen pm. The topic is out of this world ham radio via heiress moderators are Rowsley white k one s t o ARIS secretary and USA delegate and Frank Bauer. K three HD. Oh, am Sav VP of human spaceflight here about the next generation of hardware systems that are in development. Discover how to maximize your opportunity to make a crew contact from your shack and much more Friday evening. There's a tapper Amstel banquet. With guest speaker, doctor p j Erickson w one p j e from MIT haystack. Observatory is talk will be on new frontiers and human understanding of Geospace radio explorations of near earth space from top to bottom through joint amateur. Scientists part. Ownerships saturday. There's another form from twelve ten to one forty pm. Moderated by Robert Bankston, Tae e four AL amps have VP of user services. Amp, set, president VP's of engineering, education and user services will all discuss current topics that are happening around amp set we will have demonstrations of almost all the satellites of flyover from eight AM to four thirty pm Friday, Saturday and Sunday outside the main entrance to maxim hall, which is building one. This is Bruce page K K five DO for the awro audio news. This is the a r l audio news propagation forecast for Friday may third. The sun continues to be spotless. But it still sending some big solar. Winds are way the latest blast cruising along at one point two million miles an hour reached us on may second and is gonna to be with us for several days as usual expect some disruptions on the higher h f bands even twenty meters may be somewhat compromised until the disturbances subside on VHF and UHF spring weather is triggering some tropospheric band openings over a wide area of the south and midwest with reports coming in from as far north as Michigan openings are not frequent. But it's a good idea to keep your ear to the radio onto meters and up and that concludes a our news for this week. Our thanks to all contributors to this week's report. A R L audion news is produced by the American radio relay league, the national association for amateur radio for more information on amateur radio or the a r l visit us on the web at a r L dot ORG. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter by searching for a r l if you have a question or comment about a r l audio news Email us at audio news at eight are L dot ORG. This program is copyright, a r l all rights reserved Seventy-three and thanks for listening.

technician US FCC West Virginia Bruce Dayton amateur association Cerdic US naval academy Carla Pereira Sav VP Arizona R M Facebook Washington BSA America VP Rhode Island
173 A Unique American Perspective w/ MK Palmore, Marine, FBI Exec & Cybersecurity Advisor

Christopher Lochhead Follow Your Different™

1:19:10 hr | 11 months ago

173 A Unique American Perspective w/ MK Palmore, Marine, FBI Exec & Cybersecurity Advisor

"Thanks for pressing play, this is Christopher lockhead, folly or different and today and extraordinarily unique perspective on what is happening in the United States right now. You see our guest is legendary MK Powell more. He and he's unlike anybody I've ever met and candidly. It's almost as if his entire background. positions him to be a leader of this moment that we all find ourselves in you see. He's a graduate of the US Naval Academy. He has an MBA from pepperdine. He had a distinguished career as a US Marine and in over twenty year career in the FBI where he did almost everything FBI agent and executive can do including being the assistant special agent in charge of cybersecurity. Today. He's a security expert and executive an adviser and he works at Silicon Valley's twenty billion dollar market Cap Palo Alto networks, and so not only. Does he have this incredible career as a marine as an FBI agent now he's a Silicon Valley based executive at a major tech company, and here's the other thing about Mk. He's African American. And so his perspective on our world right now is like none other. I have seen or heard, and we deep on all of it, and this is a very powerful conversation and a conversation I. Hope gets heard by many I also want to personally thank my dear friend Dan Cassetta for introducing me to M. K.. Dan is one of the most wonderful executives I know. He's been on this podcast. He has his own podcast called changing lives. Check it out, it's. It's a stunner and for more on MK Visit Lockhead L.. O., C. H., H. E. A. D. Dot, com. We're sponsored by my good friends at Oracle net sweet net suites, the number one company in cloudy Rpi, checkout net, sweet dot com slash different today, and my friends at spunk are the leaders in data to everything visit sp l.. U. N. K. dot com slash Di the number to the letter. E now as Joey Ramone said Hey Ho. Let's go. So MK, there's a ton of things that are on my mind to talk to you about but I'm curious. What's on your mind? These days a bit You know I'm a father husband family of five. Responding to The entire covid nineteen crisis that were all in the midst of Cree to quite a bit of uncertainty. High School Age Kids and my oldest dishonest. Now you know going into a senior year rising senior. We're my wife and are desperately hoping that he has something Ken to a normal experience so that he can you know finish school strongly and matriculate on the college Thirty Damn about you know work have a great job now working for a great company that I think is doing some interesting things on cybersecurity realm, and then you know at the top that all off. There's all the all the social unrest going on, so you know. How do we all plug into that and make sure that dumb? were being responsible responsible about not only how we interact with others, as relates to this, you know like we're having the right conversations that we need to have but also thinking about this in a in a way. That's that's helpful to. potential outcomes. And, so what? What do you think are the right conversations that we should be having an K. so interestingly? Enough just got off on the hook with a a dear friend of Mine more than twenty years. I've known guy were closely with them in the law enforcement profession in he and I were going back and forth on. You know his perspective on this thing, and and my perspective on it and It's clear. To me that even folks who are served together and spent time in the trenches have very different. Approaches and understandings of what's happening right now and an American society, and what this response about and what it? How you know what it's like for others it's it's almost the. You know we're all being required to walk a mile in someone. Else's shoes with these particular incidents that are going on, and and that I think is the hardest part for people to understand Especially, my former colleagues in the law enforcement community who? You know to ninety nine point nine percent of just good guys, and Gals who joined for all the right reasons and just. WanNa do the right things. To serve you know certainly from my ass. I got into law enforcement to serve not for any other kind of personal reason I wanted to continue service to the country and I felt that was the best way for me to do that. And you know the vast majority I think people feel that way, but each to not recognize that there is potentially an element of folks out there who do not take the same approach to that profession as they should, and may bring some things onto the job that are not only not warranted. Just should not be there. To to not just recognize that a challenge in the in it's going to create some difficulties in having the discourse on how it is that we may change moving forward. Exert a ton of folks who just? Don't want to acknowledge that there's potential problem FOLKS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT! Folks in law enforcement and again you know I'm of the age where most of my peers and colleagues are now retired non to other things in these you know this is my peer group. Those are the folks that I still keep in touch with my knees are the conversations that we're having going back and forth and they're you know fortunately, because we are in a lifelong colleagues, we were able to have these conversations without severing relationships, but Imagine to sides coming to the table who have no basis for creating compromise coming to a table and discussing these issues, lots passions get involved in people. Begin to you, know you. You can't get to the table and make those halfway. Come halfway. Conversations make them happen without being apathetic and understanding with the other side is feeling and I. Just my fear is that we're not gonna see announced that both sides coming into the table on the trying to understand what the other side is talking about. That's what forms the basis compromise then talking about how to provide solutions. And and not to sound overly stupid, but when you say both sides, would you mind sort of being explicit with me? Mk about what you mean by both sides, yeah, so or when I say both sides I mean the law enforcement community, and then the minority community on the other side, and typically the black community. Now I'm we all. Long long conversations you know for many of us myself We were We've been hearing these kinds of discussions since we were young very. It requires again and understanding that. Hey, a potential problem exists in this us from law enforcement to the other side We need to be willing to listen so that we can make adjustments to how it is that we go about policing, which are will be a huge challenge and then you know for folks on the other side of the issue they have to understand that gap policing is is extremely hard work. There are certain challenges. involved in that profession that. Don't lend themselves to. Flow judgments you know law enforcement officers trained in a particular way so that they can make. Quick judgments of assessment of situations so that they can sort of mitigate and. Down situation as quickly as possible, deescalate the situation quickly as possible and the fact of the matter. Is that now with you know a lot of these issues being brought to bear there's probably some training changes that need to have on the law enforcement, side, and again. It takes a lot for folks to recognize. There's a problem really start listening so that again a compromise can begin in healing can begin at I. We're we're very far from. A lot of leadership lauter leadership interesting comment. And so may be. Looking at you, tell me how comfortable you are. I WANNA be sensitive to your your background and your relationships, and so forth but that said. Do you have an opinion that you'd like to express a around racism? In the FBI racism in the F. B. I. to throw out I'll I'll take a step back maybe thirty thousand foot view and make a comment overall about law enforcement. I have again. As I like to both say and right. I've been both lucky and prepared. In my experience growing up in this country I am a product of this nation's Most revered institutions I went to one of the US service academies they served in the US Marine Corps I was an FBI agent for twenty two years of my life, but before all of that happened guess what I was born a young black child in America and so my Lens. and the optic from which I've gone through my life both professional, and otherwise is gonna be different and so one of the things. I like to say it's it's interesting. It's rare in my life where I've experienced such a confluence of all of the different aspects of my life kind of meeting in one particular social moment and I think this I mean the time, is now i. You know come from the community which? Is Aggrieved I also worked in professionally the community. That's on the other end of this topic and. I was a SWAT certified FBI agent. I've done all the tactical stuff that people talk about and see movies and get an opportunity if they're if they're lucky to experience and be trained upon. I feel like I. got some of the best training in the world in the FBI and while I do not believe. That there is EXPLICIT, racism present in law enforcement I do believe that. There is a implicit racism in our society and to believe that. Enforcement is somehow immune to this I. think is is misplaced. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. I I've heard people say. Some people get angry when they hear the word bad apple that they think that's a to polite way of putting it. We can't bad apples and law enforcement, and the other expression I've heard is that officers law enforcement professionals and I have a question for you about naming, but we'll get to that in a SEC. They're SORTA like air traffic controllers. We can't have one bad one. Because the The ramifications of one bad person in that kind of a role or obviously horrifying, as as we've seen as we have seen many times in America. And is now under the. Microscope now and so. How do we get to a place where? Maybe, it's completely unrealistic but I I'm just curious. If you say it's not about bad apple, it's not that. and in maybe some police departments or sheriff's offices or other law enforcement agencies of one sort or another. Maybe there is systemic problem that needs to get addressed. but how do we make sure that there aren't bad people that we don't have one bad officer? in the United States of America regardless of the agency so. That's an in state. I think that you could never achieve on. These organizations are too large in in the FBI's and since only because I, know the number of the FBI I. When I speak to that You know you can't have a organization of forty thousand people. You know thirteen, thousand, five hundred of which were special agents, and not have any bad apples on there what you should have though our controls in place so that. That once those quote, unquote, bad apples are identified that they are quickly excised out from the organization and honestly I can say in my time in the bureau. I saw that happens from time to time, and they were actually pretty quick to identify and get those folks Oughta there. One of the challenges in local law enforcement again are the interdiction of things like police unions, and these contracts that the unions engage in with the cities. That require the cities to take certain steps, Lemaire evaluating performance, and it's my. It's my professional opinion that they should not be. That Union should not be involved in that aspect of the job. You know that the the origin of unions was really around the idea of of of of you know worker safety worker compensation things like health, health care, and that kind of thing, and that's all appropriate and all. Aspects of the job I think that. Police are peace officers should have available to them, but when it when it comes to actions on the job how they should be evaluated. I do think that there are some internal take that needs to happen there, but there also needs to be are likely an outside body to do some external looking at actions, police, actions, and otherwise to make a determination as to whether or not they meet. A common man standard car whether or not they meet the I just because there are instances that that you could pick them out with. There are things that are brought to light that don't meet the simple I test right. You know if you knew all of these things about this officer. Why is he or she's still on the job and that's that's the kind of thing where I think we need to build in some you know from some processes and and society that will allow. That to happen and happen in a way that allows for due diligence in due process, but at the same time if someone doesn't belong not, everybody deserves to be a police a police officer. It is a demanding profession and by profession I, use that word explicitly because there there is a tremendous amount that goes into putting an officer on the street. and they need to do even more. In that regard at least generally speaking across the country but once they're on the job if they're not meeting the standard of the organizations and quite frankly society, in terms of what their expectations are, they should not be allowed to stay on the job. Amen Hallelujah brother. And the interesting thing I think, and and I'm no expert. I'm just a citizen I'm just a layman. but I think we've seen some. leadership like you talk about. here in Santa Cruz where I live We have a very visible police chief for the city. And a very visible sheriff for the county. And in both cases chief Mills Sheriff Heart. have been very vocal. not exceedingly, so, but they've been very clear. And in both cases both agencies began implement changes quite some time ago. you probably remember way more than I do, but I guess there was a some kind of a big big piece of work that got done under the Obama Administration and instead of guidelines, and so forth that came out as a result of that work and around these topics, and training that's associated with it and so forth and my understanding. Understanding again, I'm no expert is both the police department and the sheriff's office in our little part of the world, here embraced a lot of those changes, changed trae training policies and so forth, and so on and both have been very very strong against police brutality. There was a photo of Andy Mills with the Mayor of Santa Cruz, who also happens to be African American chief Mills is Caucasian and the two of them kneeling out of black lives. Matter Rally in downtown net photo went viral and I. Think was a point of pride for the local community. So it seems like there are some in law enforcement Who are trying to be very forward on their skis on this and have been for quite some time. But. Maybe a lot of others haven't I know share of heart in his public, a posting called out other law enforcement leaders who have not embraced these kinds of things in the past, and and spoke to the union issue and others was I'm sure a lot of flack for it. And so, what do you think it's going to take for? More leaders of various different law enforcement organizations to to get more proactive about some of the things that need to change. While at a you actually answered your own question there in the beginning of your state at I am a lifelong leadership op student leadership practitioner. That's what it's GonNa take. It's GonNa. Take folks who to lean into this with an eye towards creating change sustainably but doing it in a way that shows that they have a firm grasp of GonNa take to change both the perception at action within these agencies and to the degree that you can where you get strong leaders who are already present and get it. It the they always are typically first movers right. Those those are going to be the folks that say you know what Roger that. There's a problem Let's Let's let huddle with my team and figure out how we change this and take insights and information from the outside, because there may be some fair observations that we can implement. That will get US partway down the field. Were you experienced problems. are an absence of leadership where folks are just in again. No problem here nothing to see we're just. GonNa press ahead. Keep our heads in the sand and keep doing what it is that we're doing and you're not gonNA see changes in places like that. There's a famous quote that I use probably more than more than I should from John Maxwell. That says everything rises and falls on leadership. men Atro- word, never been spoken. He is absolutely right every success and every failure ride it all rises and falls on the presence of leaders in to the degree that there are strong leaders present who have the ability to outlined that strategy implemented. Get the right people on board. You know all the. The stuff that if you spend any time and leadership courses, or you've spent time, business or the military. This is all stuff that we now in when people are doing those right things, good change. comes about in, but when you are ignoring those those things when you when you when you have no strategy in place to make these changes when you don't have the right confident people in leadership positions under you to help you create. This ground swell of change when you're not collaborating with other leaders, don't expect good outcomes. As, you speak just thinking. Maybe. This is obvious, but it's true everywhere and I think about your career military law enforcement, and and hopefully we'll get to spend a little bit of time on on what you're doing now in Palo. Alto networks, but I know enough about Palo Alto networks to know. That You don't get to be Palo Alto networks without some serious leadership along way do. I it. It's fan fantastic place for me to have landed You know I was able, and my former career is an FBI agent establish some connectivity relationships with some folks on the organization and it. We liked each other The folks I had relationships with we came from similar backgrounds. They understood what I was trying to accomplish in an essentially, I was a fan of what were the organization Powell networks was doing and where they were headed and so when it came time for me to to retire I. Am lucky that I had an advocate available new my skills and talents, and wanted to bring me on board and so that opportunity lineups. Unbelievably cool and I. I do WanNa. GET TO PALO ALTO networks up. The the other thing I'm sort of. You, know you mentioned trying to have empathy and and be another shoes so to speak. I would love for you to put me inside your mind. Because I look at you and I think. I I personally have never met someone who is. A former marine, a former FBI agent for many many years that is a senior Silicon Valley executive in a one of the most important software companies around. WHO's also African American I. There's not a lot of you guys walking around that I have met anyway. And so when you look at the world today, whether it's our response to Covid or our response to George Floyd, or however, you view this time that were in. Your one of the most unique people I could think of and particularly for me in my world, having been in the tech industry for my whole career I'm dying. No one is all of this. Shit looked like two you. M k. how how do you process all of it? So again, interesting your observation. I certainly appreciate it I i. don't I certainly haven't experienced the time in my life where the individual aspects of my life have found themselves against again in a confluence with what's going on in society, and you're absolutely right I I have been. Again like statement both lucky and prepare it right I everything that I've done I'm used to being the minority at the table, right? The acceptance rate at the United. States naval academy somewhere around eight percent. I defied very early on as a child that I wanted to go to school there. I, am both lucky and I was prepared that I got into that institution as a little boy. You want to be a marine. As a little boy I wanted to go into the navy. One of the first books that I read was a book about the battle of Midway, and it was an artist thing, a child's book about the battle of Midway and the more the more the more I learned about World War Two, and the idea that the entire nation was called to answer a challenge you, the the allies against the axis powers I mean it was I was just fascinated by that kind of stuff as a kid It didn't hurt that might childhood athletic hero also went to the Naval Academy so It was kind of an easy pick for me. I'm a huge Roger. Staubach, Fan. And a Dallas cowboys fan but I. I was a big Fan of Roger Starbuck when I was a five six year old boy, growing up in Washington, DC, another audit which. Happened to fall in love with him for for some reason connected to you. To me, was Captain America and I, I literally again big fan of his big fan of the Dallas cowboys my entire life So it was easy for me to identify that as a place where where I thought I could achieve my version of the American dream. I bought into it lock stock and barrel. I say to myself. I'll go to a service academy. likely serve in the Navy because that again was I. large our armed service that was apparent to me and it helps you know. I grew up with a step. Dad, who was a retired Navy. Petty Officer and he would tell me stories about spending time on aircraft carriers on the other side of the world and it you know my future was locked onto that. You wanted to be one of those guys like him. And at Wat in so my stepfather had served a career in the navy. My Dad had served in the US Air Force during. Vietnam so I wasn't I came from a family of service. It wasn't you know kind of strange thing to think about a career in the government. So, you know Naval Academy and then I while I'm there I decided that you know I'm GonNa? Take the past less than I I'm going to be a marine instead of going into the navy. Because in my mind, it was a bigger challenge. Put before me to become a marine officer as opposed to accepting a commission in the navy and you know the the marines do a good job. I- laughingly refer to it as brainwashing now, but we call that marketing around here. Great Marketing. And I know exactly what it means and why you have it. You cannot meet a united. States marine without them telling you that there Murray. Said I. Marine, but you know what in fairness, if I was a marine I'd say hey. I'm a fucking marine. Just so you know I mean everybody would know. I get so you know my career track and I will tell you that I've told my wife's to this day. I of course I have no way to hold her accountable for that. On my tombstone, I want a husband. Father United States Marine. That's it. yes, so I go into this. You know this historically well respected fighting force. You know the world over I can go anywhere on the planet and say I was the united. States, marine and people not really understand what what that is. you know become a part of that force, and on top of it There weren't and still not a ton of black officers in the Marines We have any idea. The officer officers serving what percentage would have been black when you were serving. Somewhere around five percent. It's it's again very low number. So when what would it be marines overall when you started when I started, there were about two hundred and seventy thousand people in the Marine Corps still the smallest of the four major armed services, but still at the time in the early nineties, the force was around two hundred and seventy thousand, and what percentage of them? Can you remember have been black at that time? I do not know obviously minorities I think make up a good percentage especially of the enlisted ranks. Within any of the armed services, so you'll find Black Latino Asian and others represent Rather firmly in the enlisted ranks as you get up to the officer ranks. Those numbers change quite considerably in the Marine Corps I think probably this may not I doubt that this is the misstatement? Probably has the smallest percentage of minority officers in its officer rank, and you think it was roughly about five percent in the officer ranks when you became an office correct. Correct five so five percent blacks specifically within the within the right. They may have been something much less than that. So you little bit of a Unicorn or A. This, Something unusual. Used to being a minority at the table like i. Said and then you know at the end of my time in the Marine Corps again I got to a decision. where it literally boiled down to okay I think I'M GONNA get out of the Marines, but I still want to serve the country. How do I go about doing that? and my best friend still my best friend others as a guy, went to the Naval Academy with and went in the Marine Corps with, and we both became FBI agent You know outlined the F. B. I. Opportunity to me because I was going to go to law school I was going to go on a completely different pass. And I took a look at the FBI and they took a look at me and I beat that number to that three to five percent of applicants that apply to become FBI. Agents become FBI agents that you can imagine of that small number in even smaller number of them are minorities are. The FBI experiences some challenges? In fact, I came in during a time in the mid seven mid. Nineties our the FBI was just on the heels of a lawsuit that had encountered from the black and Latino. within the organization called the badge lawsuit, and so I step into that environment again. being young. Full vigor and them, and all that kind of stuff and and raring to go, but again being a minority at the table. But having a very successful career, and I'm lucky to have have gone through that twenty two years and got law great experiences and I would imagine. being a US marine applying for that job That's kind of pretty good background for that job. At least it sounds like to me is a as as ignorant person. Yeah, no! Absolutely absolutely now. I and I am thankful to this day to the applicant recruiter so I was living in San Diego at the time. I was stationed at Marine Station, Miramar and I literally called the FBI office there in San. Diego said I was interested in applying I. had a face to face meeting with the applicant recruiter and I was off to the races. You know and he thought the package right there and Naval Academy. Graduate. Marine officer nine months later I was back at Quantico as a as an FBI. To what Quantico. Like you know, we see it in the movies. We saw those famous scenes in silence of the lambs, and we read about it and stuff and so Take me there for a little bit. I mean at the time. Quantico that the tour for a new age entrance was sixteen week course. it is. To This Day I, think of course I'm. A little bit jaded some of the best training that's offered for professional law enforcement officers on the on the planet. I mean there's a reason why officers from local police departments look to attend what the FBI calls the National Academy, and that's where they take standing law enforcement officers through a process of sort of getting acquainted with FBI training and FBI, approaches to law enforcement, and much more of a combination of thought leadership, and leadership in policing. The the train at the FBI Academy was It's unparalleled. There was a quite frankly for marine officer so that the physical component was not all that challenging for me, because literally I stepped from, I left the Marine Corps on a Friday and showed up at the FBI Academy, the following Sunday. I got in my car that Saturday morning and drove across country, and that following Sunday I started at the FBI Academy so physically. I was ready to go. Swimming Mk that you don't. You can't be a US marine unless you're in pretty bad shape. So I I'm a I'm a guy at fifty one years old now and I firmly say that I was probably in some of the best shape of my life when I was United States Marine. I would that would make sense to me? You know I went into that training, wide-eyed in fully capable physically of doing what I needed to do to get through that experience, and again at the FBI training accommodate literally take you from first left. The agents come from all walks of life there is no singular path that someone goes through in order to become an agency fact they will tell. Tell you that although they recruit heavily from lawyers, accountants, folks in the military that there is no one direct path that will get you into the FBI, they like to sort of mix it up and make sure they bring bring people in from a variety of perspectives, but certainly those skill sets of you know having spent time in law or accounting. Or? Having a language skill, make you particularly attractive to them nowadays, though skills extend to computing and technology, so if you come from technology where all of your software developer you've done stuff in cybersecurity that really makes you attractive, because the organization changed of course, as you might imagine over that twenty two years putting emphasis on. new more technology oriented crime trends instill the the nature of the workforce's changed quite a bit over time. It sounds fascinating. and so Maybe tell me a little bit about those twenty. How many years in the FBI? Twenty two years in the FBI I was. I was lucky. I had a number of mentors, and these are older agents both white and black for that matter. I want to make sure I I. Put an accent on that who saw in me, leadership, capabilities and talents, and these folks guided me through. My career made sure I had opportunities to do things that I wanted to do. And I literally went through a twenty two year career, getting taste of deep experience, an light experience and everything I wanted to do in the bureau. There are very few people I think that could come out the end of their FBI career say they did everything that they wanted to do. you know I I worked counterterrorism matters. Matters I worked as Young Agent Bank robberies in the city of Los Angeles at the time. Los Angeles was the bank robbery capital of the world and there I was on the bank squad as I think it was a three year agent at the time, teamed up with a senior agent and and we were responding the bank robberies driving around in the crown. Vic. You know doing the doing the victim Keller interviews then subsequently, following up on leads looking for, but was looking for bank. I'm blanking on that the name now The movie with the I, call him. Keanu Reeves The. The bank the bank robbers. If. The mask where the president masks in the surfers. Point, So you're, you're one of those guys, right? One of those guys, although I was not at the now closed. He I think he was assigned to the Redondo Beach Ra or something like that. Yeah so I mean. I gotTA chest, Org Bank robberies and city of Los Angeles for a couple of years and at the time. So how do you catch bank robbers? Very hard. Is it relief very? Oh, yeah, Oh yeah, at the time that we were. This again early two thousands late Late nineties. There were annually. I think somewhere in the neighborhood and getting so for Los Angeles you have to count the surrounding counties, so that goes all the way down south to Orange County and then all the way north of San Luis Obispo there were more than two thousand robberies a year all of those areas and there were you know a handful of US assigned to Work Bank? Robbery matters throughout the Los Angeles. Division so what I just described for. You was the FBI's version of the Los. Angeles office that actually went from two Pretty Orange County. It's it was huge, and it's one of the. It's the. Third largest office in the in the FBI, so it's There's a reason why the FBI sends a ton of agents to La is. There's a lot of work a lot a lot of ground cover. You know. Get back to the ability to what I call reshape. Yourself essentially I. Did you know Great Work? But every couple of years I would raise my hand and say I want to I want to go learn and do something else. and I had the opportunities and abilities to do that, and so you know I walk out on the other end of A. A career with bureau again having worked counterterrorism matters traveled overseas on behalf of the bureau to learn and conduct liaison with foreign entities on behalf of the bureau in Counterterrorism Matters. Our Bank robberies I worked intelligence matters I worked or an lead public corruption and organized crime matters, and then I topped it all off with a switch to cybersecurity. Get just A. Across the spectrum, very few people got the opportunity to move around and do the things that I got a chance to do so I, I'm grateful for that experience and really get gave me a depth of understanding of the organization that many I think agents don't get an opportunity to get, and then of course like I said on top of that was the slot, certified agent and had an opportunity to participate and scores of a warrant service, arresting subjects violent criminals. That kind of thing I mean it. It literally was all the things that you expect to get to. Do you know putting on? Called it. The Black Ninja held set. To Go. Do the bidding of the Federal Bureau of Investigation? It was a it was an interesting career. So, maybe tell me a little bit about that. I have a particular interest. In how you take down bad guys like that You may know one of my best friends, a guy considering a brother from another mother. was murdered last year on October first He was attacked at three am and his home. they tried to rob him. Kidnapping murdered him by four men. and. Fuck Star three Los Angeles so much. I tell you another thing but that. I, know all about the Santa Cruz County. Sheriff's Office and I could tell you exactly. How much racism there isn't that office? Zero. Because my brother was a brown guy. And the four evil that killed him were white guys. There's they didn't give a shit about any of that stuff. But interestingly enough because there were four killers. And they were all in four different locations. I have and they took him down, if not simultaneously virtually simultaneously, because obvious reasons, you can't take down one and all of sudden. They all start talking. so different locations one was even in Michigan outside of California and so. With somebody who has special interest in exactly this, if if you were in charge of or on the team that had to take down for evil in separate locations like that Maybe tell me about what that what that's like. Sure so. One again! Sorry for the loss of the. I. Heal any experience like that is traumatic and. It's good on a good note. Your experience with law enforcement, and what came out on the other end was a positive one because when things are going right and law enforcement has engaged appropriately. Amazing things what you described that multi location takedown thing if something does constantly because it is a federal investigation for. many of the investigations that the FBI engages and have geographically multiple locations where subjects are located and it was not uncommon. To be involved in a quote unquote, take down of subject that was occurring essentially simultaneously to the subject being taken down, was connected to the same case, so I mean in any investigation the FBI, typically a case agent that is whatever the central offices that that that grabbed the original case and as the tentacles of the case. Fans in the FBI's vernacular. You would essentially send out what they call a lead to another office. The closest field office tour that lead needs to be executed and you would work collaboratively with the other agents met other sealed office all the while from a command and control perspective. You're operating with that overall look to when the takedown needs to happen walls involve. You will be working very very closely with the United States Attorney's office in the location of all of the activity, but most likely and the the central location where the main cases being worked out of and you would coordinate all of eight. That's CERTA interrupt. To do the US Attorney's have investigators the same way. A The DA's office would have investigators that are sort of. Somewhat side card with you, or is it different Yes, so what you just described as the relationship between the FBI secret service DHS to some extent with the US Attorney's office there investigators are the investigators of the other federal entities that that may that that essentially bring cases to them. in the is one of the entity I'm court. I miss the US marshals office, but yeah. The FBI is one of the entities that worked very very closely with. The US Attorney's office and I don't know what the percentages are. In terms of where a particular us. Attorney's office gets close to their cases, but a large amount of them typically come from the local FBI office that in whatever they happen to be operating at the I mean you're. You're lashed up with a assistant United States. Attorney pretty early on especially in a criminal case where you need grand jury subpoenas and things to build the evidence for the case. There brought onboard early, and they are absolutely involved in the in the planning and trump's how it is that you're gonNA. Go about executing. Warrants and the timing of it and such and the preparations to bring all these folks to to trial and get them into the court system so I mean at the big collaborative effort, if nothing, it's not as cool as it as it sometimes depicted movies where you have all these all the technology available to you and all of these things sort of moving. In sync with one another a lot of its manual in terms of the. Engagement of it, but at nonetheless it still again, a very cooperative process, and the FBI and secret service from what they do this stuff all the time. Take take down people in a variety of locations, and you have assets in those different locations that. You plug into the problem and they're able to. Execute the warrant in the appropriate district where they were, they are served. And one of these imagine. That's part of the planning is I would imagine you have to assume. There's going to be gunfire fire and or violence that is to say. You have to pre plan that this is not. They're not going to say hey. Thanks for showing up surrender. Yes, but we have to do. Is You have to do the necessary amount of investigation and intelligence gathering to get to know your subject before you actually go knock on the door. And, that's frankly with the F. B. is very very good at. Again so. The FBI has the luxury of. Operating at its own timing, whereas local law enforcement may not have that luxury available to them in may be required to engage in response to something, and so you don't get the benefit of having. The ability to do a deep amount of planning. Although you do the same planning, you just do it much quicker, and you execute quarter so There's a ton of intelligence that goes into that The short answer is no. You make the assumption that every engagement is gonNA end in gunfire What you do preemptively as you do your homework on the subject to figure out whether or not they're known for violence. Violence whether or not they have. Weapons are known to carry weapons There are some instances any number of instances where you conduct an investigation, you know certainly in the white collar realm, and otherwise where you don't expect, meet resistance or gunfire when you're dealing with a dealing with the subject, so I mean it just it varies, and the law enforcement entity is required to do a tremendous amount of pre. Engagement intelligence gathering so that they can better assess what tools to bring to the table, and I guess regardless of the amount of homework do in the assessment around the the subject that you're taking down. You just never know what somebody's GonNa do in a moment so you? You gotta be ready for anything right. GotTa. Be Ready for the possibility that it may end badly I. Mean you're you are? Given a an enforcement capabilities where you're depriving people of their of their liberty. You know so. Don't don't assume that nothing's bad's going to happen, but don't necessarily go into every engagement. Thinking that something bad's going to happen. You have to plan and trained for that possibility and be ready to be ready to react to it in the event that it does up. And, so if we think about training for a second, you are an individual. That has experienced a massive amount of training in preparation in your life more than I think. Your average Jill or Joe. As my best friend, and I call it, will I just say we've had? Our metal tested many times. Yes and You know the the Cub Scouts and boy scouts. The motto used to be be prepared I gotTA imagine. There few people who have been trained to prepare for the unpredictable and potentially bad unpredictable than than you. Well and that's testament and a reason why you would hope that the training is good right like I. Hope that I related to you. Earlier I felt as though my experience in the FBI. that the F., B. I. gives an unparalleled level of police training I have to believe at the end of my experience with that organization that some of the best police instructors on the planet. Planet, happened to be F. B. I. Agents and people engaged you know in their duties, so I absolutely feel capable of responding to and comfortable, probably in situations where other people do not feel comfortable, because I have had extensive amount of training and preparation for interactions with people, but you know one of the things that the bureau also does a good job of teaching people. How To? Escalate and deescalate der response to situations. Every situation does not require. Your. does not require heavy handed approach, and you have to be able to make quick judgments. How it is that you're going to solve whatever problems put in front of you added. Maybe I'm naive. What do I know about law enforcement, but sometimes de escalations. Way Easier than it might seem had a little incident happened recently I went to our local ups store. And had a bunch of things to send. And you know given the situation wherein there's blue tape everywhere, and of course you've got to be wearing a mask, and it's all sort of very carefully laid down, and I was on my phone waiting with my package. And I guess I just sort of started to ease up a little bit off Maya Blue Line that I was supposed to be standing on, and because I thought the guy in front of me was moving, but I wasn't really paying attention. I was on my phone. And I hear this voice from behind me, and it turns out. It's an older African American lady. And I forget exactly what she said Mk, but it was something like you know. Excuse me, You're supposed to be on the blue, line. And and I turned around. and. I said to her I should also thank you. I didn't realize I made a mistake and I stood. Step back and then I looked at or. She couldn't tell I was smiling. Hopefully she could see it in my eyes and I said you know I need a lot of supervision I'm rarely Lau, allowed out on my own. And she just started laughing and I didn't think anything of it. Until after I got my car and I just thought. You know we're. We're maybe that's a simple interaction, but we're at a point in time where. There's so much social unrest, and there's so much concern. We all have for our economy for the well being of our country, and our people and people in the world is viruses terrifying the economic dislocate? All of it has got a lot of us on edge right, and it's so it's easy to to to to to sort of go to a bad place and We just ended up having this wonderful little interaction. I thought afterwards I thought wow, you know that could have gone very differently, and I'm really glad it went away a win. All right and you I have to watch myself. Even and some of these interactions. Exactly what you just try, I mean we're. We're in an interesting moment. In terms of society in were physically locked up restricted to our homes, except for essential travel. Everyone's now working from home twenty four seven You know my kids joke with me. I seem to jump on the computer at about eight or eight thirty in morning, and I'm literally on the computer all. Until I unplugged at you know and I take my little breaks here and there if I'm lucky, I can grab a workout, but it. You know right up until about eight o'clock at night. I'm on the computer doing stuff in. Largely! All work related so. And the studies show we are more productive now. being remote than people had imagined, so it's it's interesting, but to your point it puts us on edge, right. It makes it different when we finally get out, and we're interacting with people and I think to you know to at least a small degree, some of the some of the things that have gone viral where you see people interacting with one another. I mean this has a lot to do with people are on edge uncertain about the future. In that create certain amount of tension, a natural tension that exists and we all have to watch ourselves in terms of how we interact with one another so the I couldn't agree more and I'm trying to be a good person and. Not always making it. I. Hope that most almost WanNa be good right, and but I've had to check myself. A couple of times with people and and yeah. I'm Lucky I. Thought Myself and say you know what you're right Roger that I shouldn't I shouldn't have done that or thanks for the advice. Gree, and you move on right, and that is that is a form of de Escalation, because it could go very differently depending on what your reactions are. Now, I also WANNA. Ask Look if you don't want to get into I understand, but if you do I would love it, you have such a unique perspective on the world in the current situation. Mk when you hear black lives, matter and when you hear, defend the police. when you hear no, no justice, no peace. As. You know in the in the riots and the protests and all that so. What does that stuff look like to you? Though and it's it's hard for me to digest the into a simple our response sort you saying, and and even the black lives matter and the defunct police never tissues. Yes, black white black lives do matter. I have no problem with that statement. that that that is a reflection I think again of many of the longstanding societal issues that the United States quite frankly has yet to deal with as it relates to race relations in this country and I am and. From being honest I think in we deal with it until we you know. pull the SCAB offer that wound and deal with it in a way that allows that wounded he'll I think that these types of issues will persist. In American society and we haven't been truthful, and we haven't been honest about what that history is, and what it's like because without honesty, you can't have reconciliation. Could you say that as concerning? Could you just say what you just said again, so it registers to my database. So I I'm saying without honesty. You can't have reconciliation an until as a country, we are honest about our history and how African Americans were treated, not just when we were first brought to this country, but treated in the in the intervening years after the end of slavery throughout Literally Present Day until on until we are honest about that, recognize that there's some changes that we. We need to make in terms of our perceptions, and how we interact with one another and availability resource, and again this litany things to. We're honest about that. You'RE NOT GONNA. Have reconciliation until these things will continue to bubble up from time to time I mean. We are experiencing essentially a bubbling up of this topic that hasn't erupted in this way since the nineteen sixties. Sixties are but in that simply means that it was never resolved in first place and that's why we're still talking about the same issues I. Am a big Fan of a former author writer black author writer united. States cutting James Baldwin You could go back and I have since this whole thing started and listened to James Baldwin's interviews from the nineteen sixties and the statements. Statements that he made the book that he wrote the The essays he wrote on the subject are still relevant to this day, and that is sad. I mean how it's sad. How how is it that I'm able to go back to the nineteen sixties? Pick out a piece of literature and writing that making an overall comment about American society, and it's still be valid and twenty twenty. That's. That astonishing to me so. Clear clear indication that. Again. The problem has not not been solved I. DO WANNA touch on I. Appreciate Your mission. They idea of defunding police because I've written about this. I've made statements about what that looks like I. Don't agree with that statement in its entirety. I get where people are coming from the idea of the. What they're asking for. Really as they look a change in policing want and desire police officers to changed their interactions and understand the responsibilities that they've been imbued with, and it's not clear that that's the case right now, due to these numerous and our actions where we're seeing black lives be. From this planet Due to lots of different things that lack of training, potentially racial implications being involved in those interactions, but just the the numbers are just there too much may even want to and I you know. As a family law enforcement official when I. When I I watched the George Floyd, and so that my head almost exploded I just. If you watch that, and you're not empathetic to what that man experienced them, the final moments of his life some it must. Something's wrong with me. Something's wrong with you. Yeah, burt very much so that that's that's how I felt so I don't agree defunding police I do agree that people should be able to demand from police, a different level and way to engage You know I. I like to. To use police believe that they're in business to protect and serve with emphasis on that serve part. They're there to serve the public and then that service, if a large portion of the public is telling you, they have a problem with how they're being served. You need to take a step back and potentially listen and adjust and make some changes because you know the the statements that. many African Americans are making now. That is that you know what we're seeing. Literally saying now for the first time because of recorded engagement things like that. What we're seeing is not acceptable. Yes, they aman. Hallelujah now you, you said something you used the phrase there and I want to underscore it at, but before I do I want to? Set it up a little if I could. A three-time public company CMO. I think a lot about marketing as you might expect try to be a student of marketing. And I think to be a good student of marketing. You also our student of language. And one of the things I've learned over time is that a demarcation point in language creates a demarcation point in thinking which ultimately creates a demarcation, point, actions and outcomes. And simple example would be you know you and I are virtually the same age What I was a kid. The people who lived on the street were called typically in bums. And today we call them homeless people. And the way you think about a bomb is different than the way you think about a homeless person, and so there's been a a change in language to create an empathy and a humanization as opposed to a dehumanisation. So I pay very close attention to what thing? Thank you yeah I. And so I. I pay very close attention to what things are called. And one of the ideas I've sort of been kicking around with folks. in your line of work is. Would it make a difference? If, we sunset the term law enforcement. And, we adopted the term that you just used which you said. Peace officer he's. Peacekeeper because. It's an interesting point of view that could conceptually shift things a little now. Some people say Oh, you know you can call whatever you want it. The problems are going to be there. Oh, maybe, but I think about you used the term peace officer. What what do you think about the distinction? Peace officer versus law enforcement. So, like you, I'm also a fan of language and I. Try and my. Speaking pattern to the as precise as I can possibly be in terms of the words in terms that I use. The term peace officers already in use there are there are many states an entities that use that term to describe their law enforcement. forces I. Think a distinction in terms of how it is referred to as something that may help in the training. acumen in terms of how training is delivered. How it is that you acquaint new officer with what their responsibilities are a both to society to department themselves. That kind of thing as you extrapolate that out It would make a difference, but again it's already in use and I think that there is much more of an emphasis that needs to be placed. On the service aspect of the responsibilities of peace officers as opposed to the in the post by frankly to anything else their job. They are in service to the public They are not an occupying force in in many of the interactions that you see at least the ones that are captured on video. You, see, folks, peace officers acting like they're occupying force and that's. That's not the job that they signed up for. What they signed up to do was to serve the public, and quite frankly to keep the peace stabilize as I've written about stop society from falling off the edge. And there are times when you need. tools and capabilities available to you that may allow you to again. Save Your life or the life of someone else but they're also times where that interdiction needs to be. escalated and brought in a way that again respecting everyone's lives. The studies are clear. There are entities that have done lot looked at this a lot It's almost on. On, it read the statement the other day in. It really resonated with me. Isn't it intuitive to us? That diversity would actually lead to better solutions like you you. I think you probably inherently believe that people naturally I would think I do believe that the more different lenses you approach a problem, the better chance. This is coming up with something successful on the other end. We definitely have better food. To be silly I, you know, but yes, the spice of life right and and to your point. Look you and I are both Deutz well. You're married to a female person yes. Yes. as well as I. Am you have been for awhile? Yes, you made people with this person you're married to. Right and. I'm sure you know the same thing about your wife. That I know about my wife. She's really frigging different than me. Right and and here's the one that I. People need to understand the number. One reason I'm interested in her attracted to her and WanNa live with her his Co.. She's not the same as me. This this this difference is something that we're attracted to naturally as humans and the fact that we don't have this variety, the spice of life in the workplace really is holding us back. I think from from greatness. At least that's that's the tack I've been taking. On the subject, because actually I speak on it, throughout as one of the topics that I get an opportunity I'm glad you do. Thank you for that now and the other thing I do again, you know. Try to put my money where my mouth is I have a leadership position in an organization We just stood up a chapter here of this particular organization. Called the international consortium of minority cybersecurity professionals, and it's one of the many. Organizations nonprofits out there. That's like hey, there's a problem here and we need to address it part of the way that we address. It is by networking together and bringing folks like minded, and is within the context of this organization so that we can help people frankly achieve what you and I achieve I've been given access to this community at a very very high level I've had the opportunity to sit down with. Members of the C. Suite and board of directors of lots of big companies and I have now daily these interactions with customers of Palo Alto networks and man, if I, if I can impact change in some way, shape or form, I'm GonNa, do it because this is a great job field Why shouldn't everyone have access to? This is an interesting to note you know in the covid. Nineteen crisis, cybersecurity and technology of Ben Growth Fields that are among a small number of a business enterprise. Is that I've actually thrived? During the spirit, and the fact that those businesses again large groupings of them have very small percentage of minorities again it it's an indication that the minority population who is talented and technically oriented incapable. Don't have access to the same growth in and participation that I've had access to so that there's definitely some change that needs to happen in the industry and I try and speak on it, and I'm in the process of doing whatever I can, even if it's one by one. Each one help one you know grabbing someone who's interested. Enlightening to the possibilities, and then do whatever I can to help them gain access. So if I in the domain of entrepreneurship and in the domain of the technology industry. I would ask you the same question I asked you before more broadly around how I can be supportive and make a difference for black folks. Would your. Would your answer to the question? How can I help? Black entrepreneurs black people get into technology that want to Would it be any different And it might be slightly different so i. mean entrepreneurs and I would distinguish between entrepreneurs in those who one a level up their skills, and merely enter of the technology industries, or even cybersecurity still entrepreneurs at the end of the day. You know that's probably better than I do. They need access to money. At and deals don't get seen by the right people who who have access to this money That's the purpose of all of these organizations that have popped up. Even, some minority owned and there's there's quite a few minorities doing some great stuff in the space who started their own venture capital firms who started their own angel investing apparatus Oh that they can help minority entrepreneurs get their ideas to market They need access to money and short and simple until to the degree that it's all about networking opportunities and putting them in front of the appropriate folks almost asking for any handouts, right, it's not like. Let me get this great idea. That happens to be created by southern, black or Brown. Let me get this great idea in front of these people, because the people who created are black and Brown. No, it's a great idea. That's likely. Likely going to yield people dividends in the way of profits, so they need an opportunity to present that idea to people who may be interested in bringing to market, and they don't always have those opportunities available to them. And then you know the on the flip side that other topic of getting people into the Industry you know the science on too turns out that we like to hire people that look like us right and it. Turns out. That when you're going through a stack of papers, or when you're interviewing people, the people that resonate with you or people who have similar backgrounds, so you know if I come across a black naval academy graduate who served in the marine, corps who have been an FBI agent. I'm going to say wow, you know what this guy looks great. Brother should. Wait. We should hire him and people do those kinds of exercises the nearly every aspect old? They went to the same college as I did. They come from the same neighborhood that I come from grew up in the same region of the world. We're always looking for that. Commonality and I think all were asking people to do is stretch your optic just a little bit right. Understand that there are people with the requisite skills and talent who come from these diverse backgrounds neighborhoods. Who could not only do the work that you're looking for them to do? Chances are that by simply adding them to your enterprise that you will actually be better and do better. Incredibly Wilson. A. Another look I could talk to for twelve hours A. we should do a fifteen part miniseries. One thing I also WANNA. Touch on if I, could you? You are a person clearly, and of course we're just getting to know each other and Ba- forever. Grateful to the legendary Dan Cassette for setting us up. One of the all time greats. I've never met a more heart centered leader than Dan Cassetta. Yeah I I've been exposed to an entire group of folks who again just all well-meaning folks who are deeply experienced than have access and capabilities and I'm just I amazed every time retirement. Get get around those gosh. Yeah, it's a pretty special group. The thing I'm also insanely curious about. Is your seeming ability 'EM K. to reinvent yourself? You know I talked to a lot of veterans who've made the transition into the private sector, some of whom become entrepreneurs and executives as well I work with a few, and in a couple of capacities and have a real soft spot for. Our vets and I love seeing our vets in Silicon Valley in the technology industry doing cool things. so you you? You made the transition from the Marines to the FBI now of course to very senior position at one of the premier companies in Silicon Valley and so tell me a little bit about how you think about this. This ability do kind of. a leverage your your past in your experience and your history, but at the same time reinvent yourself into. It sounds like new careers along the way. Yeah, very purposeful I was imbued in me and a very very young age that I was capable. Literally by you know my dad, I give credit for this just capable of doing whatever it is that you set your mind to so I have never suffered from. What for some people are at this vision of obstacles in their way that are insurmountable i. don't think there's anything I'm not capable of learning, and we're doing without enough time, emphasis and application of effort I've proven that as you just simply described especially over the course of my bureau career like I said I had mentors and others who who said Yeah. Let's give. Give this guy a chance. He says He. He says he can do this. and we've. He's shown himself to be successful in what he's doing right now. Let's give them the opportunity to switch gears and go do something else, and that's exactly what I did. Towards the end of my career in the bureau, it was all purposeful I always had an interest in. even as a little you know. I'm I'm a NERD NERD kid from the seventies I grew. I, was you know what I saw star wars in the theater when it originally came out, I voted I I'm a nerd Went to college when I went to the Naval Academy I had actually intended to major in computer science. I I was excited about it, but I was so fearful that I would not be able to make it through Annapolis because for those people that don't know the service. Academy academic requirements are. A, they're hard. I don't. I don't know how to put it I. Mean you get all of these Valedictorians from all over the country who go to school at the service academies and they literally they get their behinds kicked up and down the rails because the academics that these places are just they're. They're super hard There are some of the toughest institutions in the US. So I knew that going into it. And I also knew you know by a kid who was the average math student in high school? I did well 'cause I. 'cause I worked hard, not because it came easy to me, I knew that getting a you know quote. Unquote Engineering Degree at a service academy, but I didn't think I would survive it so an admittedly, this is one area where I took the past. frequently traveled actually selected a major that I. I thought would provide some relief and make it a little bit easier because the goal was to pin on my bars in graduate from that place that I didn't want to do anything that I thought might cripple. My ability to do that was the goal I gotta graduate from the place. It doesn't matter if I'm AECOM CY major from poly cy history, whatever I just got to get my bars and a Naval Academy graduate. Night did not major in computer science and I regret it, and as you hear me blabbering on about it. I've regretted I've regretted exodus day I may just go to be Okay M. K. I think he'll I think you'll still turn out to be an okay. Adult may maybe I majored in political science. Because I was a decent, you know I had a decent grasp of history I actually had an interest in politics at the time and I figured it would be an easier path. and it was I had a successful time at Annapolis. Was Poly Sci Major and I still? Got My rear end kicked by all the math and science courses that you have to take their, because the requirements are so heavy to graduate that regardless of what your major is, you graduate with a Bachelor of Science degree, so there's you know four five semesters of math. You end up to this day I still. Don't know what happened. Semester called differential equations I don't. Neither do I.. I. Successfully made it through that course. You take two semesters of electrical engineering I would not have signed up for that headed, not been a requirement. You take multiple semesters of physics. I would not have signed up for that if it wasn't even arm into graduate so interested in income cy towards the end of my bureau career, I literally said to myself at the time. My wife and I were signs in the Sacramento Division, and I was a public option supervisor. Supervisor I had worked a cyber investigation early in my days and Sacramento and got acquainted with where the bureau was going with its investigation of cyber matters, of course I was excited by it. Had all of this complexity involved in it? You know there's these unknown adversaries that are literally on the other side of the planet. You're tracking their activities. You're seeing the tools that they're using the techniques how it is that they're going about it so I I was at that point. And I literally use that experience and my stick to witness, and I competed for and Lucky to get an executive position where I was now put in a leadership position with the Cybersecurity, folks and order I took it an extra step which I'm not which I'm known to do. I didn't want to be tied and want to be leading these folks and being meetings for them. Them and not know what was going on so I took it upon myself to get the training to level up my academic understanding of Cybersecurity I doubled down I. got all of the heart certifications that most people rail about you know I got the S P on the first passed I went in I gotTa See ISM certification. I went and took every sands course available to me. Me luckily that the F. B. I. support it and paid for, and I leveled up my understanding to the point where not only that I understand what was going on? I had an opinion of hulme about how to the state on some of these investigations, and I tell you not everyone would do that. and so yes, I have reinvented myself. at various stages and. And who knows maybe I have one other reinvention last. I don't know that I'm I. Don't know that I'm be cybersecurity guy for the remainder of my professional life. Maybe there's something else out there. That will catch my eye and I will again do the homework I need to do and I'll jump off into that field and I'm sure I'll be successful. I have reason to believe so. You're unbelievable. Mk clearly. I talked to you forever. but I do I. Do want to be respectful of your time. Is there anything else you'd like to touch on? now. I I appreciate the opportunity to talk on. And you know some of these other very hard hopefully I gotTa Cross to you and the eventual listeners that you know my my position on this is is rather unique and try as best I can to make sure that I bring a depth of understanding to multiple sides of issues as I look at how it is that we get resolution on some of this stuff, but yeah I have very unique experiences from a lot of different angles and I still remain optimistic. You know that at the end of the day. especially nationally that will show our true selves, and that eventually we'll get on the past to healing and enlightment right? It's always about moving forward and not not moving backwards. Well K. you are a legendary human, being your career as a total inspiration, it is fascinating to think that Your entire background in the context of what's going on right now, you are the you are the man of the moment and. I appreciate. You know you you being public. You're writing and and just being a big big voice in Silicon Valley, on a number of these topics it's fantastic, and I deeply appreciate you investing this time with me. Thanks for having me on I really appreciate it. Great Conversation. Hope it turns. Thank you, brother. You're welcome back anytime, thank you. Well there is M. Cape How warm and I sure hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did, and if you did, please share it with your world today. Now, of course, we are in uncertain times, and at times like this. We need a full picture of our business, and that's where my friends had nets. We come in net. Sweet is a complete business system in the cloud from finance inventory HR, managing customers and a lot more nets. Sweet provide you everything. You need to gain the visibility in control that you need. Need to make the right moment by moment, decisions visit net sweet dot com slash different today, and you'll get a free copy of their guide that digs deep into what business leaders need to do now, so check out net sweet dot com slash different today, and while you're there, you can also get set up for a free product tour of net sweet. And Challenging Times required data and That's where my friends at spunk come in, they help you bring data to every question, decision and Action Visit SP L. U. N. K. dot com slash t the number to the letter e where you can learn how to turn data into doing that. SPUNK DOT com slash D to e, and also remember my friend Dan Cassette us. US podcast, changing lives. Check it out wherever you get legendary podcast. Alright we would like to thank the incredible. MK More himself. You can find him on the Internet M., K., Powell, more P. A. L. M. O. R. E. Dot I O. The incredible people at one life fully live dot org. This is the non-profit making a difference for decades now for over a decade. Go make it longer than it's been helping people, Dream Plan and live their best life. Please check out the number one life fully live dot org also if you're in marketing, if you're a CEO, if you care about the growth of your business, check out the number one marketing podcasts that is hated by many and loved by few lockhead on marketing. If you want to help, scale yourself, why not check out my friends at bottleneck dot online trinet will help you build a legendary B. to B. Website in Silicon Valley check at eight T. R.. R. E. DOT net. You can make a difference in your community. Dig deep in your wallet, and maybe support a church hospital, a food bank or anyone else in your community. That is doing good stuff right now. All right I need to remind you that this odd cast is the sole property of the lockhead odd cast network. We deeply appreciate you sharing it. All rights do remain perturb. We are produced an edited by living podcast legend Jason Filipo checkout his podcast. grumpy old Geeks, because right now. is a good time to be grumpy. Sarah Knox and Jaime J. DO technical execution in legendary Nisa around here. DIANDERAS got the website. Remember to teach leadership. Be Kind listened to Prince Spread podcasts not viruses. Thank you Candy Dandy. She keeps all the trains running on time love, mom and Dad and Hey, Colin. The sod cast really ties the room together, doesn't it? Today are deep St Paul go to Harvey. Weinstein sorry Har. We just ran out of time for you. That's it my friend. Thank you so much. Be Good to each other stay safe. Stay legendary, and until we are together again, follow your different.

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085: Mollie Plotkin  How a Little Luck and Building on Your Network Can Lead to Achieving Your Dreams

Self Made Strategies

49:57 min | 10 months ago

085: Mollie Plotkin How a Little Luck and Building on Your Network Can Lead to Achieving Your Dreams

"You're listening to all new episode of Self Maze Strategies visit. Self may strategies dot com for episodes information about our guests and a whole lot more. Welcome to a new episode of the self-made Strategies podcast. I am your host, Tony Lopes, and our guest today was struck with the idea that Philadelphia needed a one stop sports marketing. Agency for Athlete appearances and keynotes she wanted to create a sports marketing agency where people would find their favorite professional athletes for their events. More recently they've reimagined the company focusing on sports wellness diversity and inclusion and leadership speakers with an expansion of services offered they came up with a new name new website and a renewed passion for what they do. Whether, it's a kickoff meeting that needs some spark a conference that needs a keynote speaker, a virtual program in need of engaged in engaging leadership expert or a team in need of some wellness training. Molly Plotkin. Group is there to help here for your listening pleasure or the self-made strategies of Molly Plotkin Hey, molly. How are you? Married returnee. Thank you so much for having me on today. Thanks for joining us. This is really cool. Thank you for coming on. Obviously, you're joining US remotely were still obeying social distancing waters and we appreciate your time. This is also being recorded via zoom to be posted to youtube as well. So those of you who are listening can now follow self-made strategies on Youtube and we'll soon have video page up as well. So you. Can See Molly in the flesh remotely of course but thanks again for joining us. So walk us back. You started in two thousand and four. You've been around for seventeen years with Molly plotkin group I not gone through some iterations, but tell us about the very beginning. so you decide that you are going to start this one stop sports. Marketing Agency focused specifically on Athlete appearances and keynotes. How did you get your first client? Sure. Honestly, it's a very serendipitous story. It's one of those where you say you can't believe it's true but it is. At, the time I was helping someone in the finance industry with their marketing. Bottom line is we were thinking how do you think clients in way that different in will be that something unique I did something they can i? Came up with the idea unique. Areas. So experiential brand marketing is all the rage right now but go back fifteen, sixteen years ago. No one was really talking about that. So it was along those lines that while talking to this person, one of their clients was a huge sports fan. So at the time, I had met the wife of a local area sports caster and hit simply said to her who runs the agency that represents athletes. So in Philadelphia such sports town, where do we go if we're looking to connect with alumni athletes someone who? Maybe? A legend but they played twenty years ago. For private dinner something along the lines. She said there isn't one and I said, well, there should be. and. Honest to goodness the next day. I thought. Why not no one's doing it. This is the time. So she and I actually became business partners and we ran the company together for three years. How really started was I represented one person And it was Michael Barkin so I was representing Michael. About three weeks into representing him, the Eagles win the playoffs for the first time in forever many years and as he's on the air now we've got two weeks before they go to Jacksonville. I simply texted him and I said, this is back when texting A. B. C. You have to. Attack A. Message we've been waiting for the phone to terrain if anyone was looking for sports caster. First client to let me try to sell you. I see you know. Now we've got all this excitement eagles football. So I thought. Okay let's waterson local. Someone to talk to them about you know. Pulse of all things eagles what's GonNa take place. So the first company I'd hauled said You will love the idea said Ring Michael Barr Cal as entity employee's open a PEP rally is we love that idea. Can you get Mike Quick also am I said absolutely I duNno, my. So long story short I figured out a way to meet my quit he became my second client and then fast forward eighteen months represented one hundred and five people across North America including every coach in the Nhl while while that's really impressive now but before we get too far ahead, we will get to what experiential marketing is and what that how you. Develop those programs for your clients, but take us back to meeting Mike Quick. So you book this Gig and I admire your your Gusto right just figuring out hey, you know what I'm going to book a Gig, and then I'll figure out how to deliver later. So how did you? What was your process to go about meeting? Mike Quick at that point. So My. My secret sauce that had always been lucky a know a lot. So. If I was telling everyone network our most important thing you can do make those connections and it's true. While connecting people in helping people, and because of that, you know when you need to find someone people are willing to answer the phone in short. How can I help you because you've helped me in the past? So it was really what I spoke to Mike and said, this is my dream of what I'd like to do. I would like to build this one stop agency for able to find sports legends he said I'm. So. We made it a very. Easy way for a store together, we have full transparency and what makes my agency unique in the industry is that we only represent people we know so. Started with my Larkin and then might quick, and as we bill every person that we represented, we sit down, we get to know them we find out what their strengths and weaknesses are as a speaker, and once you get a feel for who they are and you understand their stories. Then it's so exciting to able to help them find. Right Group to share that story. Very. Very cool. Okay. So now let's talk about experiential marketing and how you've overlapped that experience marketing is basically combining brands and experiences so that people can interact with the brand in the real world. So to speak right and now that's transitioned a bit online as well. But generally speaking that term means I l. in real life, right. So how do you go from representing individuals who have a public persona like athletes or like radio personnel or TV personnel and create an experiential marketing program around that? What would you do and and how did that develop? Sure. Well, you know treat home and Post Cova, nineteen. So March twenty, twenty, mid March twenty twenty, those are two very different answers to the same question. So in the past, just knowing where my speakers were the best fit, some do great with small groups. So it's really value added appearances maybe a dinner intimate dinner of ten people. Were you're spending time with an athlete who I know is going to be able to connect with the people at the table there's others that have a story. Great, you can put three thousand people in a room, give them a microphone and a spotlight and backs when they're going to shine. So right there being able to have that experience knowing what their energy is, what they're passionate that they speak upon and knowing how they connect with people and what type of groups they connect with. That alone isn't experience and as I've said, many times. We could be sharing a same story, but hearing it from someone who played in the NFL or NHL in when Stanley Cup is going to be completely different and more engaging than molly. PLOTKIN was to share that same story. Right, exactly. A lot of your public speakers are really really notable Philadelphians but also notable. Athletes. Ron Wars Ski, for example, Riley coattail formerly of the flyers and now focused more so on him peels and some of the other cannabis awareness programs who are some of the other people that you have as speakers aside from Ron Gorski Mike Quick. Riley Co Day those types of individuals. Sure I. I had to say two of the most exciting people that I've. WORKED WITH FOR FIFTEEN YEARS, one is new to our roster It's a wonderful speaker named John Foley. He's truly one of the most sought after international keynotes speakers at he's a former solo pilot of the native angels. He says, Stanford Grad Mba International Policy Masters as well, and is really the foremost Keno motivational speakers you could ever meet. We recently. Had the opportunity to sign agem errol joke teller to our roster who we are. So thrilled to be able to work with the Arrow. Is Not only a former navy seal. He is FBI counterterrorism expert. He is a leadership and process expert who's now gone into the private sector in we have now could a program together featuring John and errol so it's right now. So to be able to bring to people what do seal Angel Having Common, you know even though they're both graduates of US Naval Academy that's really wary ends and the leadership skills that they learned in their military experience but also they're both very. Well, versed in experience in passionate about speaking of wellness. So. Again, to be able to have wellness speakers that. Have such a heavy military background. It breaks the mold of what your traditional wellness program might sound like. That's pretty awesome. So what's one of the stories from your career, your seventeen year career of engaging with these public speakers, motivational speakers both a good one and a bad one that you've experienced. Oh Gosh. You, Don I'm very lucky. There's a lot of things that appreciative unlucky of while one is if people want to be speakers in there, come from the sports, they're usually someone that is just inherently motivational They have a lot of gratitude. Appreciation. So just being able to connect with them bad makes what I do. Unbelievably, lucky Let's see what are some of the I guess. You don't recently about two years ago. I would say this is probably one of my favorite Stewart most recent favorite stories reverend herb lost in Philadelphia is the minister for the Philadelphia. Eagles and he hosts a large fundraiser each year for his nonprofit people to people and I walked into the room and I was not expecting to go to this abandoned was a last minute. Hey, you know there's which enjoy may there's a seat available? You WanNa come short. And I walked in the room. And all the sudden I ran into probably twelve of my clients from when I started Philadelphia Sports Group, and when I walked up and solvents polly who I had not seen it in a few years and he looked at me and he said you can start. And that is type of memory that I go. This is a really great job business. Why? After taking highest few years I came back to it because I've never stopped loving I do and I never stopped loving working with these clients. Think the deep. On embarrassing side was a at times not fully appreciate that when you walk into a restaurant with someone especially, if it's an active player, they have a stature, a presence that makes people take notice. So you're not being fully prepared I'm walking into a restaurant meeting someone in Bali Plotkin and then had everyone turn around and we'll get you in the room that takes a little getting used to. because. It's not your typical business meeting and sometimes you forget. Right that's a good point. Now, with these names that you will you've grown and evolved, you've grown evolved your client list fairly significantly, and as you said, you have a lot of military and leadership speakers, which is awesome. But you also have rightly coattail Br Brian Prop Mike quick, Ranjan Gorski lots of really notable Philadelphia athletes. How did you evolve? That was just a matter of being in the room with Mike Quick in the naturally you run into and meet some other people or or is it something that you know evolves more naturally because you're just putting yourself where those people are going to be how do you develop that? Where do you start if you're trying to meet a particular individual? Honestly it's very organic. I've never never had the need to really search someone out I. Really enjoyed working with everyone when we started the company. So would you lay that groundwork and I have to say what? Memorable in the. Field is that? Athletes can very quickly detect when they're someone who wants to get to know them because of their wow factor. So someone who's a huge sports fan and they just want to be around an athlete I look at people as a good product. The I need to make sure that my hiring client is getting what they are hiring this person to do. So the fact that I. Probably come off a bit different than most of the people who want to get to know them that really stands out but I guess the biggest thing that makes me stand out is that here's the big secret. I'm not a sports fan. So I think that's what surprises us. Of course you're not going to be all a starstruck when you meet them right in that's going to help your situation. Yes, and So when you said before your question, what are some of the most embarrassing things among lack of knowledge of sports that would probably be with L. doubt is women meet someone and they're talking about the professional career I have to say I know but you do take the transparent approach right I hear that in your story that you're just GONNA walk up to them and say look I necessarily know how many touchdown catches you've had Mike quick or how many touch downs you've thrown around your ski but I'd love you as a figure on stage I love your stage presence and I'd love to represent US ed more or less your approach. It's really word of mouth. So Helen that Roger were ski was I had met and I honestly have to search to figure out health even started. When am I have I start this sentence all the time one of my favorite clients they're all my favor clients Kevin Reilly. Kevin Riley is one of. The greatest speakers anyone could have the opportunity to listen to Kevin played in the NFL he was recruited by Don Shula after their perfect season with Miami Dolphins from there, he was a walk on tryout for the Philadelphia Eagles which was his hometown team and ended his career with the New England patriots but on top of that, heaven is a desma Lloyd Cancer a survivor and he's also amputate. Due to the the tumor, he lost his lecture older left-arm shoulder in top four left trips. He's gone on to be one of the most motivating. Inspirational inspiring speaker she could ever have the opportunity to listen to I worked closely would Kevin. We had a great success for him to a people in the financial industry worked out with a lot of financial houses and it was when we had built his program. runt he told Ron Dorsey about me. So then Ron call his people called us and we were able to work together. I'm believe that's made even how I met. Vince poly because again we meant. Before the movie came out. So it's really a lot of players that I work with bent tell their friends and their friends reach out and say, okay. So how can we work together and once I need them in go through interview process i. Go through and figure they're going to be good. and. If they are, then they sign a letter to let us represent them work together and we start marketing them on their behalf. Very. Cool. Yeah. I saw Vince Papa speak by the way about a year year and a half ago, and he's actually such an engaging and phenomenal public speaker. He talks a lot about his experiences with the movie and then also with meeting Mark Mark Wahlberg and working through that whole process. But then both life as an eagle life after that, you know what he's been up to he he's a really engaging guy. He just makes you feel really comfortable just sitting there listening to him. Yes. You Been Lucky enough to actually experience it and so when you talk about experiential ran marketing and how you translate that experience someone like vents, his energy comes through whether he's live on a large stage talking to one on one or coming to you through your computers free. He still has that ability to connect with people, share his story and get people fired. Very cool. Let's go back to the time that you talked about that embarrassing experience that you had right walking into the restaurant with a really big personality. How did you feel in that moment and how did you fix that situation? I quickly realized This is a I'll use to. Business if this, assail the other person I. Want to make sure that they're the most comfortable. So you really go back to be more of a a hostess, per se and working to make sure that your guests is comfortable. NARONHA limelight. Knowing that I was having this experience, the businesses different that I have to raise it. There is a wild factor, Chile and use it to my advantage. One of the best business I ever read was barber. Corkran's us what you've got. So she just told the Corcoran group you know ten years before Shark tank and she talked about you being able to harness with magic, you can find and using it and. I am in an exciting environment I need to embrace. But as I said, you know not being a sports fan I didn't really give at the full credit that need. Very interesting, very interesting. So that duality that exists though because you're both representing your client, the public speaker. But as you mentioned earlier, also trying to deliver on your client, the individual who's paying for the appearance right or the organization WHO's paying for this public speaker to come in has there been the situation in your past where the to have collided and how did you fix that situation? Absolutely wine often will happen as someone will call and say I know exactly who at one? This is the speaker that we want art. We've already voted on it and we would like them to do our kickoff meeting. And I have to say to them I love it. You found that perfect person has so many strings. They are not going to deliver the message that you're looking for because I know that speaker I know that what they're really most comfortable with is autograph signings were small. Megrahi's a just because someone played a on a national level and is in front of a huge audience doesn't mean they're comfortable with lots of people. Some are just very, very shy there are more interested. So we spend a lot of time talking to my hiring client to say what are your needs you know? Okay. You say you want someone motivational. Okay. Why do you want someone motivational and after talking to them I realized no needs to win really based talking about leadership. Or team building. So I, you know when we do a lot of back and forth I am very proud to say I had never had anyone not take my advice because my goal is I want them to be happy I want them to have a memorable experience I went everyone in that room to feel as empowered, and inspired and educated as hiring party was hoping for. But was there a story in particular where you did hire an individual and you please don't name names or list parties will keep them all as innocent as possible. But was there a story or a moment that you had booked someone for an event and they show up and you thought it was going to be a great fit but it just didn't work, and now you've got an upset owner client entity that hired you for this position and an upset speaker and how did you rectify that situation? And I have to say I had never had that. I did had speaker once who even though we had gone over day time over and over and over again. Completely slipped their mind. I get a phone call from hiring client. You know the event supposed to start in twenty minutes. I always said a creator needing Everyone knows given emails and text every. You know it's the. My mom had you know? Okay. All the things we need to get done and. It was very lucky because the client lived about forty five minutes south of appearance. At that moment they were forty five minutes north of the appearance, but their wife was home. So with within. Twenty seconds we were scrambling de Speaker was able to trap. A sale is white was able to pick up his business closings up and head north. They were fifteen minutes late at the end of the day. Not only. Did it go well, the client went from. Obviously in rightly. So being staring us in very concerned, he's got two hundred people in a room where is our speaker? To calling me when it was over in saying it was be best speech anyone had ever heard now. I know from the background talking to. Speaker. My adrenaline was going on. I, got. No choice but did not get out of the park and it ended up being a magical event but holy how was sweating bullets? Well, that was not a fun moment because I am not in business of disappointing people. So that would have been terrible. Now, what did you do in that moment? Though just more practically because I think right now with covid nineteen in. All of these issues, there's a lot of pr problems right going on in our society right now top to bottom you know. So what did you do? What were your practical sort of best practices in that situation where you're in crisis mode right? You've got your clearly not going to get the speaker there on time. So what was your approach to rectify that situation? What the I was complete accountability. You know no excuses anywhere from any one. For explaining to the hiring client that I was going to move mountains to get this done and it admit we've finding another Speaker Hill I mean again, that's the beauty of I know everyone represent I know where they live and I have a general idea of where they are. So are they down in? Florida sure. House rb home in suburban Philadelphia. I'm going to get them someone and A. There can't be any other option I. Of course, after contacting the speaker and his family members go because I know his wife. His daughter I'm texting everyone pulled over on the side of the road literally just trying to get as many people on the dials hostile to find out where they are how we're gonNA. To move it, it was like moving troops. We're going to get this done, but it was also. Just saying you know I am really sorry I apologize that you're feeling this stress rightly so and we are going to make this right now. cogan. postcode. Since the entire world has pivoted to the idea. Of Online and Virtual Zoo and everything else we would attack ships. You know we already had a screen at this menu we stream something. I think that'll be one of the biggest changes we see in the future of our industry, but we'll get to that later but knowing. That was. At the moment that was not an option by it was. So how was I? I was pulled over the side of the road by Park in Narberth Pennsylvania texting everyone in calling everyone I possibly could. Right. So good segue into covid nineteen. So how do you go from running an organization that's focused on live public events to completely shifting that online? What was your approach and where we are where we at now because obviously we're about a hundred and thirty days or so roughly I don't know what the count is roughly that into this So I guess we've all got a fair bit of experience at this point. These zoom meetings and technical difficulties in just being a little bit more respectful of one. Another's personal space in you know a dog might jump in or a kid might jump into your meeting or something along those lines. But how have you shifted your business model to deal with our current state of live events? Sure and and really I do consider myself part of the events industry we are in essence a speakers euro specializes in the world of sports whereas we shot out sports marketing really we veered into a new industry realized that truly who we are in what we do. So as you can imagine, the events industry is all based on live events. It's meetings, events, kickoffs you know gala nonprofits looking. To raise the profile by having an athlete out. So I would say my experience similar to many events industry in mid. March we looked at his okay. You know we might be in our homes peculiar mix. So let's richest is going to slow down and we're GONNA get all our you know the things have been piling on debt we need to get done. It's going to be one base snowed. So. Two weeks go by well they're they're talking to be another four weeks. So why we to a half? All of our events have canceled. So we are we had cre- projections for twenty twenty. I have so many events on the books my speakers excited I'm thrilled in their great quality events that are not only bring speaker to in a group, but there's people that will be the audience that might be. Able to hire them again. We're not every everything has dried up. And then of course, it's Oh my gosh what in the world are we going to do? It was probably about six weeks into that. So from beginning. Middle of March to the end of April where we realized. Okay we have to do agree hit and it was after conversation with a group of women that do zoom call with that. We're all entrepreneurs and every week one of us we focused on and it's great mastermind. We started around okay. Wares everyone with. This new reality and they quickly focused on me they said Molly your this is the one that needs it. The most you may not survive in was after that conversation where like so many of us you will can say water my ingredients what can I do with this and we realize our silver lining is virtual programming. We now have the ability instead of me bringing dense apology who you were able to hear we could do a full program of Dinsdale polly doing the introduction for twenty minutes followed by Raja, war-scape to see your quarterback talking about. Team building in business and how to keep you team. During Times of chaos in finishing the event with Kevin Reilly talking for twenty minutes. His experiences been not only as an NFL player, but as a cancer survivor amputate ends a thirty year executives, Xerox Corporation. So that is that's been a huge benefit to us. So I have to say it's a we've never been work cited. Those first couple weeks terrifying. Yeah, that's understandable I. Mean that pivot was freaking everyone out I think quite frankly but I love your approach staying focused on as you said, what your ingredients are, what you have that's good. How can you add value and what can you bring to the table on offer to really increase your market presence personal branding What can you do to stay stay in the forefront? So what are your best practices for those who are listening that are struggling with covid nineteen that are still struggling with the dynamics of having to do at home zoom events, or for instance, recording their podcast remotely or something along those lines? What do you advise people to do tae to present themselves in the best light. First thing I would say before you even get to present yourself is jumping like now is the time this I hate to say it by the bars low in white people can. Not Get away with. So for example, in the past, you would not want to do an interview on super say we would want to do it. Face to face in a studio will now embrace the fact bad. If you've wanted to start a podcast, that's what everyone. You. CNN is having reporters working their kitchen you can too. So jump right in. Now is such a great time to try something because if your child starts crying in the background with the dog walks through the back in the meeting note that's that doesn't even make you know a youtube clip any you're not even going to be a mean you're just. All US. Now, that's great. Advice I. Think you're exactly right. So what's the next step though? Okay you you dive in and I couldn't agree with you more I mean the we're in a position now where those who said, oh i. don't really like the sound of my voice or I don't like the way that I look on camera. Myself may be included in that a little bit but you have to write you have no choice. That's the way we're all meeting and interacting with people so that Comfort level that that callous so to speak is really increasing in thickening and allowing you to get more comfortable in front of a camera and you know making sure that you have good lighting for example in good sound and hopefully keeping the dogs in the kids at Bay for about sixty minutes while you're trying to handle your business on zoom caller presenting yourself but have you had any celebrities or any of the people who you represent appear on zoom call that had something funny happened to them. You know we all learned very quickly. What a bad zoom call looks like. So. I had quite a few clients set again I am I am really into dotting every I am crossing every T. so who four I would send someone out to ally. Then we would not only go over all the details of the event. We would do a pre phone call with the people who were hiring client, and then we would go over the dead and then rape before they went on I was on the phone with them or I would have a representative from the company. Be there with him. So I did the same thing with zoom calls. Thank goodness because we did have quite a few people who don't really realize. You can't sit back close to to the camera and when there's a really big echo or when the lights shining war. And this amazes me I watched a zoo hall. that. Was Actually sponsored by INC magazine and it is someone who is huge huge huge. They actually. I just I can't be this one out. They did the entire, the famous person the expert did their entire interview with their dry cleaning hanging in. A. I can see your dry cleaning is right there. If I can see era everyone else thirty, one, hundred other people listening to you give us your business acumen they can see it too. So I would say every single speaker that I have before they do a podcast, assume interview or event. I say, okay. Take your laptop into where you're going to let the lighting straight. Don't touch anything. take a break but light wear it is keep your camera where guests and remember where you're sitting because there's a lot of ban low horrible quality out there and. We will be known for producing the best events. Yeah and I couldn't agree with you more I mean I can't tell you how many zoom calls I've been on at this point where it looks like I'm talking to the mob informant from a twenty twenty special. They're all dark and the lights all in the background and the voice doesn't sound right. You know who are you hiding from just just fixed the lighting please but. Yeah I've had the same experience obviously with trying to do podcasts remotely. We've had a couple of glitches here and there and look you gotTa Roll with it. It's it's just we make mistakes where human beings and I think that's acceptable to your point if you own it and you show that you're trying to fix it and you're doing things to improve the quality people respond to that I think in in a unique way. I think that is definitely one of. Only challenge that I don't know how to overcome right now is when I have a speaker and they have a delay. SO THEIR INTERNET CONNECTION GETS SLOW WAR I was listening to a speaker. It was through chamber event in the Philadelphia region when everything first started and the person speaking I was so excited to hear and their power went out and so. That's just what happens and luckily there you know someone else who could go into the chat and say everyone we're going to be delayed by about fifteen minutes but you know a chance. Will and That was it. The person who was a sneaker lost our. So that's usually biggest obstacle is good wifi connection and does our yeah. If I can jump in, they're just from my perspective because I'm running these podcasts. I've had a couple of those things happen and it got to the point where I'm now wired connection. I'm back to old school among the great again. We've upgraded our video equipment. We've we've done things to upgrade the sound try to stabilize things and we were having issues with all sorts of sinking problems with sound, and like you said delays because we this using zoom and even though we're using our equipment here, it's tough because you're reliant upon the other individuals Wi fi connection or What kind sound equipment they're coming to the table with what's the echo and mayor situation and you kind of just have to make it work. But I understand exactly where you're coming from it's Murphy's law right. One keystone vice that I wake in fire entrepreneur. Would every you're going to do aim to be the absolute best in the business and when we wrap our mind around programming in realized earlier, we could go with these programs on we immediate lined with one of the best technology companies on the East Coast. So you working with them, we're able to put together high-value production. So anything from virtual. Conferences and breakout rooms but where you're actually it almost like you're watching the video game but they also handled all the production side for the speaker to make sure that they know how to ask. You said, go back on the grid, overcome any obstacles like that so. It can be overcome, but it's a lot. There's some challenges, but any challenge can be overcome I mean we've put people on the moon and we're sending satellites in outer space all the time I think we can figure out how to have a good zoom gall. I I. Agree I agree. Doesn't it amaze you how many really big companies still quite continental zoo that's really or quality. That's this art into the game. I'm really astounded by. Yeah Look I have no idea why or an explanation why I can I can theorize or? Provide my opinion, but I guess it's just you know for some it's a mindset thing, right? I I agree with your mindset personally I'm always always always looking to improve content looking to restructure things looking to improve quality production value I really take a Lotta time personally thinking about all the ways that we're presenting ourselves whether it's the podcast whether it's a production that we're working on out using the production company whether it's my life is a lawyer or I teach at Temple. So even when I'm teaching I, really really tried to bring the best presentation that I can. My jokes usually fall flat with the students by the way but different generation I guess it's just Rate. Hikes Molly I appreciate the boost but. But yeah it just comes down I think to mentality and I couldn't agree with you more because to me and maybe you feel the same way you tell us when you're looking at something like that. It really put paints a picture in your mind of what that organization thinks and feels like, do they really care about always putting forth the best quality like what you were talking about always trying to be the best at everything that they do or is it? You know what we're going to stay in our lane and who cares if it's zoom call or zoom video and the quality stinks nobody cares you know and and I think that does affect brand perception on the back end. I completely agree and but I also think it's as said a few moments ago for anyone who? Looking at this time as a way to jump start something new, create a head idea that they've created that they're ready to take action on. You can start with the bar being pretty well, and then mine advices aim to make it the absolute best because I think that's what really. Puts the people who are going to survive this. It's the entrepreneurs that are going to be successful in that are successful because they have that drive to say not only am I willing to try this once I've tried it. I am no. I WanNa to do a better than everyone else around me. You know there's always room for competition competition is good and I always say because I know what I'm able to provide is going to be better than anyone else. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more I. Think we live in a culture now in and I'll get your opinion on this as well. We live in a culture now where it's the fake it till you make it but I think people misunderstand what that statement means. Right? It's been taken as now this kind of Hashtag e instagram social media kind of culture where people are faking it on social media but not really delivering or executing at a high level which sucks quite frankly. But I think what that statement really means is a much higher than what you think. You might be able to accomplish infrequently you'll land a lot higher. Than you think you could. You'll. You'll hurt yourself by maybe that whole imposter syndrome right I. think that's what fake it till you make. It applies to when when you're actually faking it, you just don't get anywhere and I couldn't agree with you more in the context that it's not about faking this persona I. Think it's more so about being real in just trying to put forth the best product that you can at the time in place that you're in now right and let's face it. It's we're eighty some odd episodes in at this point with our podcast and it's evolved significantly from the I ten I, twenty I fifty that. It just works that way right and it's like anything else like Jerry Seinfeld you got to write jokes every day and ninety nine percent of them are going to be crap but that's how you become Jerry Seinfeld he spends time writing and grinding it out every single day to make himself better and I'm sure if you looked at his early material, it's nowhere near as polished as it is today. Without a doubt and you know again the. So much of what makes entrepreneurship exciting is bad. You'd be understanding of each day. You really do have the opportunity to build something bigger and better, and you have to be prepared to hit it ends. Zigzag and because what you think a need is you have to be open minded enough to find out that actually needs a little bit more over here. For example, we've been thrilled to find out that a lot of our athletes. We now offer them more managed services. So we're able to help them in many aspects of their post playing career that was something that I was unskilled to do and I've got a great staff that's able to work with them as well. You know. Not, only original business plan and even from the very beginning when I thought I was going to start a sports marketing agency representing just a handful of athletes growing it into something that really looks very different morphed into so much more than I ever would have imagined. That's awesome. Okay. So now, which where are you going in the future? What can we expect from Mali Plotkin? Group? The rest of twenty twenty, who knows what's going to happen? Of course, we'll give you that pass. But what what are you working on and what are you looking at in twenty? Twenty one, twenty, twenty two what can we expect from your organization going forward? Shortly. Well, the biggest thing you can look for retail I cannot tell Ya. So hopefully, we will be able to speak in a few weeks and I'll have a very big announcement at that time to. Really a virtual programming guide is almost group. Is. Almost like a menu of who represent but how they can work together. Because now, we're able to put together many of our athletes from different sports, but they speak about the same thing. So for example, Anthony Griggs who played for the played in the NFL for the Eagles in the browns and then the steelers in Albany Williams who played in the NBA originally from Villanova. Then went to the Portland Trailblazers Angela Raptors they both to great speech on time management and they work really well with. Teenagers. College. Students. Recent graduates at really students that our young people in their early to mid twenties. So that's what you're gonNA, see more and more of instead of US spring one keynote speaker out to an event seeing a seeing able to bring the excitement of many swertz and industries together under single talk. That's awesome. Yeah. You talked a little bit about that. Right with Vince, Bali? Than Ron Gorski and then Kevin Reilly. Working together on these presentations. So that's really exciting I. Love the idea of. Flip it kind of pivoting. As you said, with this challenge in saying, you know what? This is an opportunity Nava challenge necessarily of course, it's a challenge we respect that everyone's facing this in different ways and I frequently say that we're all on the same rollercoaster were just on different parts of the ride. Some of us are up some of us are down some of us are clinking along rising, not knowing what we're going to fall but you know looking for those opportunities, the little victories are really the path to not only saying afloat but finding success when others are facing challenges. Absolutely, and so I will say that for many of us in the events industry, what we're going to see for the rest of twenty twenty is going to be challenging. It really really is a events that were supposed to be held in the past spring and summer were immediately postponed to the fall, and now those are being canceled. They're just saying if you're April twenty twenty, they're just GonNa make able twenty, twenty one because by then God willing, we will all be in a rural to be able to do either live events where we will just so have embraced virtual events that everyone knows that we'll be doing. So I would tell everyone you know. If you're an entrepreneur, you just started a business just. Hold hold. If you can make his twenty twenty, it's going to be a big time of change for all of us by twenty twenty one's GonNa be huge. Opportunity ahead I couldn't agree with you more now, what can people expect if the reaching out to Molly Plotkin Group to book a particular celebrity I would imagine that your prices vary or public speaker do you want to give us a range or an idea or is it best that they just contact you? Know slowly and we we will find so much work within anyone's budget. I really really mean that and that's something that sets us apart on most of the big speakers bureau agencies. Of course, you know they want to start a certain level. I really want to get on the opportunity to be able to have speaker. If you know two people could their need. So we really have a range of twenty, five, hundred dollars all the way up to fifty thousand. So yes, and it really depends on. What the needs are, what you're looking for a is it a forty five minute speech? Is it executive coaching afterwards, VIP section before you know, of course, these are virtual breakout rooms by you know, we have so many different ways to put together an event but I always say, even if you have a budget of five hundred dollars, you should really give us a call because if I have someone that's able to win we really would love to bring them out. Awesome. Now, what's the best way to reach out to Molly Plotkin To connect with you or to reach out about a particular speaker that you have as a client. Thank you I without a doubt going to the website is the best way to say. WHO. We're working with what we're currently doing who we've just signed We have all of our emails on the website. Our phone number is listed there as well and is molly blocking group dotcom. Molly is spelled with an IRA, but that's the biggest I think most people had. So if you go to Bali plotkin group DOT COM and we're also on all social media. So if you google that name even with a misspelling, you're gonNA find us very cool. Awesome, Molly. Thank you so much for your time and for your insight really appreciate it. Thank you Tony was so to speak with you.

Molly Philadelphia Mike Quick US Molly Plotkin Eagles NFL twenty twenty Kevin Reilly Molly Plotkin Group Youtube Tony Lopes Ron Gorski North America dot US Naval Academy
The internet as we know it rests on 26 words from 1996

Make Me Smart with Kai and Molly

35:06 min | 2 years ago

The internet as we know it rests on 26 words from 1996

"Make me smart is brought to you by indeed. Are you hiring with indeed? You can post a job in minutes. Set up screener questions, and then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard. Get started today at indeed dot com slash marketplace. That's indeed dot com slash marketplace. Everybody Cairo's dolls. I'm fairly light hearted about. It was fairly light hearted. Got my phone. We'll find out. We will find out. That's true, welcome and make me smart where we do, as you know, get smart about technology, the economy and culture with, of course, the help from all of you, because none of us is smart as all of us that is correct today. Oh man. I'm really excited about this. Oh. I can't even today today we're going to dive into a level of nerd Orie that's been part of my everyday life, for low, these many years are these social media companies Facebook Twitter. Read it Google. Are they simply platforms for content or are they publishers, and since everything from the nineties is cool? Again, we will ask that by way of a nineteen Ninety-six law that gave us an answer one little part of that law called section two thirty which we brought up last week, which is sort of the last week or two weeks ago that led to the idea for this entire episode which essentially says an I am we're going to get way more in depth into this. But it essentially says that internet platforms should not be held legally responsible for what is posted by third parties on those platforms, obviously that question of the responsibility for content by these platforms has only gotten bigger in just the last couple of years. I mean, I think since. This. Show started have been arguing about how much control Twitter at least should have over speech on its platform, you've got YouTube now saying, okay, you know what turns out we're going to take down the Nazi videos instead of just and anyway, there's been a whole bunch of backlash against YouTube Facebook, all these other platforms of various types of content of various degrees of offense. Sorry, I'm just making a note here from things I wanna bring up later in our discussion. I mean, you know, there's so there's Facebook with deep fake video of Nancy Pelosi either Twitter and China in Tiananmen and suspending accounts, an amulet it's a whole long mess and, and has Molly said she and I have been talking about this stuff, and we've been talking about it actually in terms of mostly of congress. Right. And what congress ought to be doing. And also, maybe what the company's somehow ought to be doing, and it's really a question about this law. And it's, it's the Communications Decency Act of nineteen Ninety-six, one of our listeners care, linzie, had one of the same basic questions, the mine, I have. Here you go. I think the Communications Decency Act of nineteen Ninety-six needs to be revisited, thanks in large part to social media sites like Facebook. The internet is no longer a binary platform versus publisher world. Facebook may not create the content posted to its platform, but it certainly does make aditorial choices about, what content reader, see or what content they're more likely to see how exactly does the CD define. And differentiate, publisher and platform show, here's what we're going to do. We've got Jeff costs on the line. He is a professor of cyber-security law. The US naval academy. He is also. And this is really the reason he's year, even though I've got a soft, but in my heart for the navy as we know he's other of a book called the twenty-six words that created the internet, and we're gonna tell you what those are, but, Jeff, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. All right. The twenty-six words Jeff hit it. No provider user of an interactive computer service, she'll be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information created by another information content provider, that is the relevant section of the Communications Decency, Act of nineteen Ninety-six section two thirty which is how we got to where we are right. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So to understand how we got to where we are. We actually have to go far back beyond earlier than nineteen Ninety-six. And that's really the whole reason why congress even past section to thirty and the reason. Is that there was this weird rule under the first amendment? That said distributors of other people's content can't be held liable unless they know or should have known that, that content was defamatory or a legal, I and that worked well for bookstores that were selling books and so forth. But when, when we got to the internet, what happened was, we had these services that frankly, my students have never even heard of called, CompuServe and prodigy that had very different approaches as to how to how to provide services online. So CompuServe was like the wild west and it did not do any moderation. It let its users post anything they want see anything they want prodigy wanted to be family friendly, so they had user policies, content policies moderators, and they both end up getting sued in the early nineties for defamation. Compuserve ends up having its lawsuit dismissed because the court says you're more like a bookstore, so you didn't know you shouldn't have known prodigy on the other hand was treated like a publisher because it moderated. So. Prodigy was found that it could be on the hook for up to two hundred million dollars for a defamatory post. So congress passed section thirty to provide this very broad immunity for platforms because it found that there was this really perverse incentive that they were creating that the law created for these platforms saying, if you don't moderate, you'll get more protection and that's where section two thirty comes in. And that's when we're talking about publishers platforms. You really have to understand the real distinction. You have to go back before that. Well, because what the law aim to do with say there's going to be some protection for you. If you engage with this content in some way, if you do basic moderating, but you can't catch everything, right? Then you won't necessarily be liable for the stuff you didn't catch and you really write in this book and we've been talking about this for a while. Like this is the you say the twenty six that created the internet. This is why read it Google Twitter. AOL. Youtube have not been sued out of existence. Many times over this is why we have the internet economy that we have today. That's exactly right. So when you look at where the most successful platforms are based. I mean, most of them are based in the United States, and it's really not an accident. It's a large part is because of section two thirty the United States really has the broadest protection for platforms for user, generated content in the world. I if you look at Europe, for example, you just cannot see the same business model, working in your in Europe, as it does in the United States because they're just they would be liable for so much of what their users post. So. I I'm wary of me being the rain on the parade guy here, but hundred ninety six twenty three years ago, as you say in the book at the time, the two thirty was passed only forty million people on the planet had internet access. Here we are now two thousand nineteen eleven Jillian people are online, and yet, we are still using a law from prehistory really, to regulate what happens on the internet, discuss. So, yeah. I mean, I, I think that a lot of the criticism of section two thirty actually agree with quite a bit of it. I, I'm have mixed feelings about its utility currently. I think we the, the big problem that we have right now is we've really built this entire industry. This trillion dollar industry on the shoulders of section thirty. So, I think, but there still were harms back. Then there were very real harms that were being caused by user content. The second case ever decided with section two thirty in nineteen ninety seven was a case where a mother sued AOL, because Ailes chat rooms were being used to market, pornographic child pornography had her son in it. I mean, that those are tough cases even back then. So, I mean, yes, they're, they're really terrible harms that have come up in a lot of recent section to thirty cases. But I think we also want to keep in mind. There's been this sort of this tradeoff that's exit. Listed since the beginning since section thirty was passed. Well, and it seems fair to say, you know what's interesting is that this particular regulation, did give platforms pretty broad latitude to moderate content, like it, specifically said, you have this latitude to be in there to, to set up filters to, as a private company, exercise, your right to create the kind of environment that you want to create, and you still won't get sued for missing some stuff, and yet they didn't, and it feels like that's a decision that is worth discussing. Why, why does Twitter have such a hands off approach? Why has it taken YouTube so long to say, you know, we think that we're going to take stronger action against certain kinds of videos, and I get that censorship's a hard game. But what's interesting is that they did take such a hands off approach for so long when it seems like they were better protected. I think there was a lease for quite some time. And part of it might have had to do section to thirty that they just didn't need to be so proactive, another part of it is that we and it's hard to really paint with a broad brush of platforms because there really are more platforms than just Facebook and YouTube and Google. But the there are the big ones, and I think the bigger problem that I at least have had with them is that only until recently until the past few years when they've really gotten criticism they were so secretive about a lot of these practices. They would have these broad policies but there was no real transparency. I, I mean, in my capacity at the naval academy I work with intelligence agencies as well for other types parts of my research, and I'll say, I often felt like I was dealing with intelligence agencies when I was dealing with the large platforms. They were so secretive, and they've stopped doing that, and they've started explaining some of their protests that they've taken and some of them have actually been very thoughtful, but I think transparency is key, if they want to be able to preserve the current business model that they have. Do you think they've got that transport the necessary transparency now? I mean Molly, and I've talked about this a lot, right? I mean, Facebook's answer to any problem that comes up with Facebook is always more Facebook. Yeah. It's getting it's getting better. It's not. It's not anywhere near where I would wanna see. And again, this goes far beyond Facebook my, my concern. I think even if you got rid of sections, thirty they will weather. Whatever storm comes to them. I worry about the smaller platforms that want to be the next Facebook and Google. I don't think they have the same clout. The same ability to help craft whatever rules come out so, but yeah, I mean, I, I think that the there needs to be far more transparency about the decisions they make. But we also have to always keep in mind that moderation is really hard content that someone might find to be objectionable and terrible. And harmful. Someone else might find to be their free speech and then you have a private company in the middle making the decision of well, what am I going to allow it or not allow it, they're going to get criticized by someone but. But sorry, it's congress as you write congress decided to let the platforms have this power, and the platforms have proven themselves not up to the challenge, and the idea that we now have to count on Mark Zuckerberg, or Jack Dorsey to defend free speech at the same time as they're running a for profit company that, that controls information flow to billions of people seems problematical. Yeah. There definitely are some problems with the model. So I mean section two-thirty was built on this theory of user empowerment, meaning that users would determine the community standards that they want, and they would walk away from platforms. If those platforms were not generally meeting those standards. Now, the big problem with that is you now have these massive company is, and it's hard to walk away from Facebook, if you want to connect with your friends, because or if you want to log onto a service that uses Facebook, log in or all of those are. So I think that that's, that's the bigger problem. And I I'm not ready to pass judgment on guess, or no. Is this a good or bad moderation practice, because frankly, and I mean, I've been researching in this area for years now, I still don't have the greatest idea. I mean I we get bits and pieces, but I think we need to have a lot more light on what they're doing. And also have it more collaborative and figure out what can they be? Doing better. And I think frankly, a lot of the recent debates might be pushing them in this direction, because it's really existential for a lot of platforms. It is. Well like you said, though, okay? Let's say that altering, you know, fundamentally. I think we have this question, which is do we need to change sex in two thirty? Or do these big platforms need to change the way they operate. Because like you said, if we altered to thirty in a way that makes it harder for the next Facebook to be built. But Facebook, Twitter and Google are fine and able to absorb the blow and hire more moderators, and throw some more AI on it. Then have we just essentially thrown the baby out with the bathwater? Yeah. I think that's exactly right. And that's why I think I'm really glad that there are a lot of these discussions about section two thirty I started pitching this book back in two thousand fifteen and I'll just tell you publishers, many publishers really. What, what are you talking? What's sinc-? What nineteen Ninety-six why do you want to read about this? So I'm glad I don't really. Bad that people are, are really interested in this now. But I think what we need to do is take the next step and say, okay, if we're gonna make changes to section two thirty or repeal it, what will the internet look like. Or what changes can we make that would achieve the desired benefits without as many costs? And I'm not hearing that nuanced discussion as much I'm hoping that we can start having it rather than just say, sections, thirty is bad. Let's get rid of it. I think we need we need to go deeper than that. Do you think congress? You know. Yes. Congress doesn't run all the laws. But eventually, they have the vote does congress have the capacity. Do they understand enough to be able to find tune section two thirty? Right. Because it's not sacrosanct right. The first amendment is not an unlimited right? And to thirty is not an unlimited clause. Do they have the ability to fine? Tune it in a way that will do the most good with the least harm. I think so. I mean, I think they, they passed it. They I I'm not entirely sure based on my research. At least I think that there were only handful of people in congress who were even paying attention to the time when it passed. But I think they do. I mean, I know congress gets really bad rap for its technological expertise, especially in light of some of the higher profile hearings, where there have been some comments that some senators and members of congress made. But I, I do think that I mean, this really does come down to some basic equities here about do, what are our values for free speech? Vs privacy receive and security and I think that they're really some tough policy choices and one thing I remind the platforms is that section shoot thirty by and large is not required by the first amendment, so congress with one with one vote could get rid of section two thirty. This is not a constitutional mandate and I saw. So I think that the platforms that. When I say they need to be transparent. They need to really demonstrate what is the value of this really extrordinary immunity? The congress has provided. Do you think they're worried about it? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So they so they know but to are they counting on the lack of understanding? I think so. I mean, I think they're just might be some belief in the power of entropy and the power of gridlock. And I think I've either been a journalist or a lawyer professor in DC for fifteen years now and I see a lot of ideas come here, and then they don't materialize, because they just kinda got stuck or than getting at it. In the worst case scenario for the platforms. They could added to an appropriations Bill right before winter break, and nobody notices till it sign. So I mean that's something that could happen as well. But I do think that there is this idea, just like other tech legislation? There's been this big push for privacy legislation, which I think would be wonderful, but that's kind of stalled as well because. There are so many priorities. There's so little time. There's an election next year. So I think that might be one thing. They're counting on do. Do you think the debate has changed in the past, you know two three ish now years? I guess it's the two thousand sixteen election. I mean there there have always been social costs to free speech that we've been willing to abide, right? Whether it's individual attacks or, you know, people saying horrible horrible horrible horrible things we have decided that the value of free speech is such that individual injury as it were will be tolerated in the name of a social good. Do you think it's changed now that the injury, that's being done is to democracy in a lot of ways? Yeah. So I- what's really interesting section to thirty has really no two main vectors of criticism that really conflict with one another from largely, I would say the conservative side, the criticism has been that platforms are doing too much. Moderation. They're censoring people, and the at least the, the this criticism says that if you're not going to be this viewpoint neutral platform, you don't deserve section. Two-thirty protection. Why are we providing this protection to platforms that will censor some voices? So that's the criticism from the right. That you're not or that you're doing too much moderation the criticism from the left. And I think this really is because of the election, the two thousand sixteen election is you are not doing nearly enough moderation and you're being somehow protected by section two thirty, and that's giving you a disincentive, so that's why when I say that moderation is hard. I think that's a really good example where you one side is saying, we want to get rid of section two thirty because you're doing too much moderation. The other is saying you're not doing enough. Well, I mean, I think frankly, one thing that would be good is to figure out. What is the adequate level of moderation that we want the platforms to be doing? And I think then going from there, well, no pressure. But you said you, you said you haven't heard a nuance conversation. I think we're starting one if you had some a little prescription, you know, some layers that you might be maybe twenty six more words that we could add to second thirty what, what might that start to look like? Well, so I think that and this is where I, I think I find I fall somewhere in the middle of the anti in pro section thirty folks, the pro the real sort of die hard section thirty folks will say no changes whatsoever. I would say that one big shortcoming is so section two thirty has an and this is where we get really nerdy. So, so bear with me here section thirty has an exception for federal criminal so violations of federal criminal law have never been protected by section two thirty, but section two thirty does protect platforms from state criminal law. The problem that we've had is that obviously DOJ FBI are pretty are have limited resources and states have really in a lot of cases like exploitation. For example, they've really taken the lead on a lot of these initiatives yet. They've not been able to go after really bad acting platform. So. I, I'd like I think that we could figure out some sort of limited carve out for section thirty four state criminal enforcement, that would really go a long way in my mind of addressing what I've seen some of them were problematic cases states rights fascinating. Okay. Well, no. I mean that's super interesting because we are definitely seeing the states, as you said, take a much stronger approach. Okay. That that's like that's nuance. That's like a simple. You know, I feel like is dying to say that is backside. This is good. Find an answer to this exactly the conversation that's going to help. Get us started. Jeff cost f is the author of the twenty-six words that created the internet, and a professor of cyber-security law. The US naval academy Jeff, thanks so much for the time. Thanks for everybody. We fixed it. We fixed the fix it fix the internet. You welcome. Done at time. I do. I do want to know what you think, because it is it is super interesting. I'm so glad that we did this episode because it is. So it's so complicated in so many ways. Censorship is complicated. Moderation all of it. I would love to know what you guys think as always, what have you seen online? That's made you think like that should be taken down. Or maybe then immediately right after things. Like Facebook to have the power to decide to take down feel about this. Send us voice, my mom make me smart at marketplace dot org. We'll be back in a minute. Make me smart is brought to you by indeed. When it comes to hiring, you don't have time to waste. You need. Help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That is why you need indeed dot com post a job in minutes set up screener questions, then zero in on qualified candidates using an intuitive online dashboard. And when you need to hire fast, accelerate your results with sponsor jobs. New users can try for free at indeed dot com slash smart. That is indeed dot com slash mart. Terms, conditions, and quality standards apply. Make me smart is brought to you by aspiration bake banking is or was broken. They charge high fees and user deposits to fund pipelines and oil drilling. This grade leaves millions of Americans behind and destroys our planet, but it doesn't have to be this way. Lots of people are looking aspiration, a financial firm for those who want more money in their pocket and more power to do good featured in Forbes, the New York Times and money magazine aspiration offers a two percent, annual percentage yield zero ATM fees anywhere in the. World and the option to choose your own monthly fee. Even if it Ciro, plus aspiration, commits ten percent of their earnings to charities that help other Americans and offers extra cashback rewards for shopping at socially conscious businesses. Everyone deserves a financial firm. That's fair provides great products and helps you make more money while making a difference, put your money where your heart is download the aspiration app to open an account earn two percent annual interest pays zero ATM fees and save the planet while you're at it. For back magic of radio just like that. What was that just want to sing the next part, I was thinking the next part, all right? Okay. All right. All right. All right. What do you like what do you like your life? Three two one. I didn't like it. But I did. Well, also, I just figure also okay. I have two things go. The first one is that I want to remind everybody about our newsletter. Suck up to the bosses. No, I literally was like, how could I didn't see it? And I was like I love her newsletter. Good. It's good. It's actually really really, really good and interesting. Well, it's like this extra wonderful stuff. Elisa mills is writing it right now and she's so creative and smart. They're such clever in there. It looks really pretty marketplace dot org slash newsletters. If you would like to subscribe, it's beautiful Jess. Okay, fine. What I'm actually fixated on is, is, is, look, we think we think right now that we're having a conversation about privacy, and it's problematic. We have not even be gun to have our privacy invaded and there, there's a great piece that was basically like it was proven right at the moment that they hit publish over the Washington Post Jeffrey Fowler wrote a piece about facial recognition at airports and all of the reasons that airlines want your face, like, yeah, it's. So convenient to just be able to walk up and have them scan your face and delta or United jet blue skinned one hundred fifty thousand faces what could go wrong, and he wrote this great piece about how it's really a privacy trap, that's being laid, and it's all about, you know, immigration policy and possibly advertising and efficiency, but as this piece was being published news came out of a big privacy breach involving the theft of databases of people's faces and license plates, and all of this kind of visual scanning that's happening and just being stored in unsecured databases all over the place. And it's just like an is only I can't believe I'm so dark place, but it's just really hot. Then I'm assuming cranky guys like you just wait wait till the starts to include like your genetic data, which kind of hardy does and like your actual fundamental profound. Identity like. Biometrics should not be treated with the lack of care that they are being treated with now they should not be considered a convenience ploy because you cannot change your face. Okay. So eyeball. This is where I will try it out. The old congress can't find its backside with both hands because what is the penalty for this company now? Right. That has failed to exercise this efficient amount of care with are incredibly sensitive and personal data. Peta there will be no concept. Maybe there will be a fine from the Federal Trade Commission for I don't know a million dollars five million dollars. I made it look it isn't raging. It is in raging that we're still talking about if whether there's a possibility to retroactively slightly tweak a law from nineteen ninety six to get up to modern standards and we have done nothing to force companies to take proper care with even basic data, let alone biometric data. Let alone genetic data, let alone to data that applies to parts of ourselves that we literally cannot, we cannot alter. We cannot change. We cannot fix like we will be screwed and Fayssal wreck. And, and we haven't even started on killer robots like I think that I'm joking but I'm not. Like the level that we have inertia about the, the thirty year old past, and we are aren't even coming close to his debut ourselves from the future which gets me if I may interject here to leading that I was, I can't believe we're still having this conversation and it's and it's going to sound really petty and stupid. But it goes to exactly what Molly was talking about the congress of the United States has not had a pay raise since two thousand nine now, see what you will about the congress in the United States. I certainly have said many things on this podcast about congress. But you gotta pay people to engage in public service, or you're not going to get people in public service congress. The average lawmaker the baseline salary for member congress right now is one hundred seventy four thousand dollars a year. Yes. That is three times the, the median pay in this country, but for running the, the world's oldest democracy. I think maybe they ought to get a little more money. And so two did some members of congress this past week or two. They were working on a bipartisan Bill to raise congressional pay again for the. First time in ten years, but it got shut down over partisan sniping and political advantage. I believe the phrase we're looking for here. People is Q E D look it up. I. My, my praise was getting to be a bad word. Molly detroit. This is Rebecca from Baltimore was Greek to your Cohen's on my questionable deep. Your I wanted to put in my vote I wanted to Scott's a slightly different but maybe related thing. No. We're going to talk about what we want to talk about. So last week, we had a whole conversation with all new on from the marketplace morning report from the BBC World Service about the union elections, and the Indian economy and how promised Mody one big over there, maybe bigger than anybody thought, and it got some responses Hussein Puna Walla sentence, this, I'm only anti moldy was elected in two thousand fourteen and I'm disappointed that you did not speak about religious intolerance and nationalism. That has accident rated onto his leadership, his election, campaign, targeted religious and ethnic minorities, and the government was reelected, despite record unemployment. And it's fitted to deliver on economic promises from the previous Latian. Yes. And so that's all true. Except we did talk a little bit about the, the BJ fan being a nationalist party. But, but look, there's lots of out of there for sure about the issues with prime minister Modi. And some of his policies for sure. Without a doubt. In fact, while I was hosting marketplace. One of the days you were gone, there was a story about the, the, the strengthening the stronger bands on killing cows into how there are people in. So our story was about how that hurt the leather industry, which is a really big industry in India, but also about how many people actually considered that an anti Muslim action that law. Yeah, it's I it is true. I mean obviously, there were lots of issues to, to discuss. But I think nationalism I just thought I think there's a whole new podcast now about nationalism like, of course, there is the rise in nationalism all over. But that that is. A very true point that out. After hearing your episode listener Tim Anderson wrote to us he said he's visited India, a lot for work and pollution. He thinks a big hindrance to India, society and overall growth. He said, quote, I no longer have any desire to visit Delhi, or gone Gurgaon. Because the air quality I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Because the air quality is just so terrible. He said with the medical conditions that certainly must bring with it. I wonder how that will impact society and the economy moving forward. I'm sure it's going to be huge. So if you look at China now, right? One of the big movements over there among young people is climate change in the environment because Aaron Beijing has been tortuously bad for decades. So I think it's going to have a huge impact for sure. Eleven out of the twelve from box most polluted cities on a World, Health Organization list were in India, not to mention I mean, India now is experiencing some of the worst effects of, of morning of literal warming. It's like one hundred eight one hundred nine degrees in India right now. They're having a I mean they there was a, there was a piece recently that said normal life has stopped in parts of India because it is so hot. They have to pour water on the streets to keep them from melting flake. There's no air conditioning, anywhere. Farmers are committing suicide. I mean it is horrible, the effects of climate change in India. Not to mention the pollution levels like without a doubt. That's a that's a, that's damaging Ted Sullivan in a mill in a lot of ways. Yes. Totally true. Ted Sullivan writes in producer television, he's currently on the CW showed Riverdale also. And after he heard on a on this body. Send us this make me smart, literally makes me smarter. Because it expands my admittedly western specific. American Centric perspective to include a more global point of view, and that's had a tremendous impact on me. Both as a person in real life, and a storyteller for television. So thanks, guys. Thank you. That's awesome. Thanks for listening. That makes me want to do more global episodes for we should go on a trip. All right. Time for the answer to the smart question. What is something you thought you knew? And you later found out you were wrong about listener, Alex Clawson, sent us, this Boyce memo saying that I saw I knew that I found out about is when I was undergraduate student getting ready to graduate college. Oh so ready to move on the grass was definitely greener as a graduate and just could not wait to get out of school, and go, be a real dull now ten years later, I guess I regret that a little bit. And if I could just go back and tell my previous self just enjoy where you are. While you're there. I think that'd be pretty cool. It'd be able to do that. So first of all, that's a good rule in life. Just enjoy while you where you are while you're there. But also, as I believe I've said before college is not about getting straight A's, yo issues, not it's not of the night, this, if you're pitas, any of my children, but, but it's just not youth is wasted on the young. Yes. That's the truth. Adulting is the worst and the best. It's also the best. Yes, I, yeah, I feel you. All right. We're going to question. No, you please after, you know, K k something you thought you knew. And you later found out you were wrong about send us a voice memo, just like Alex did make me smart at marketplace dot ORG, and you too could appear on the podcast. Seventy si-. And with decide makes me smart is Bruce by shower Mars. Tony Wagner has our digital producer senior producer of this podcast is eve tro. Thanks for video producers at the lot of producers, Ben heck coat and. Sars. Dunsmore. What this program? It's a lot of engineers to this week's program, just add our theme music was composed by engineers battled Holiday Inn Daniel Ramirez. The executive director of on-demand EVA's, and the senior vice president and general manager is Deborah Clark. Who it turns out? It's secretly all the time has been a member of the end of the show club. Totally host volume Email last week. Says, oh, by the way, I do. Listen to the end of the podcast. That literally was remained pretty much. I didn't know that you could put that sounded an Email, but you know, she's a radio professional. Nor no more remarks about Deborah Clark. I'll say that I don't know. I would have believed it more if she'd put hashtag e OTP club. Oh, that's true. Just saying, just saying, Deb. If you want us to believe you. That's right.

congress Facebook Google congress publisher YouTube Twitter United States Jeff Molly detroit professor India AOL US naval academy China CompuServe navy Cairo
Whats the big deal about Section 230? (And your 2020 predictions)

Make Me Smart with Kai and Molly

30:52 min | 1 year ago

Whats the big deal about Section 230? (And your 2020 predictions)

"All right okay. Everybody's Kai Ryssdal. NFL Hollywood camera turn. This would make me smart forgot cameras host which direct. Oh my God let us. I mean like a two person operation right now. The whole control room. I was like Oh really. Are you double barrel people with both both fingers in case you were wondering this is making me smart where we get where we get so smart about how to properly off your producers also attacked the economy and culture and where none of us his smart as all of us and we are off to a smart start. I know we are here. kind of it's another pre-tape respond if you will. We are back next. We live and in person for now. one more favorite episode from two thousand nineteen. Also your predictions about what you think is going to happen in two thousand twenty. And if you've listened to the last asked to episodes which I of course encourage you to do you'll hear me and molly laying out where we can happen. I'm telling you this is a TRIFECTA. A road trip is what this is. uh-huh yeah the interview. I also I'm still in my Christmas sweater under still Youtube Youtube. The interview you will hear today is actually one of my favorites It is still fortunately or unfortunately very relevant facebook twitter and other online platforms. Have of course. Maybe you've heard been criticized for failing to adequately moderate the content on their platforms Whether it comes to hate speech or or other inflammatory content or even political advertising they have generally been able to get away with this argument that they are not liable for what users post on their sites. Now as the twenty twenty election gets closer this obviously becomes a bigger and bigger issue in October facebook like caused everyone to completely free bring out for refusing to take down political ads that contain factual errors or or even fact check them at all. Google then decided to limit ad targeting. So they said that ads. ADS can no longer be specifically targeted to people based on voting records or party affiliation and twitter discourage completely. I know well got itself all wrapped up around the actual about was an actual political advocacy campaign pain. And what's an issue doesn't mind touch so Zuckerberg went to Congress A number of weeks slash months ago to talk about Lebron digital currency that they're trying to get gone but that got completely upstaged when congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez started going after the CO facebook about out Content moderation in that political sense. And here's the way that one played out. Would I be able to run advertisements on facebook targeting Republicans in primary saying that they voted for the green new deal. I mean if you're not sacking political advertisements. I'm trying to understand the bound here. What's fair? I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head. I think so. You don't know if I'll be able to do that Do you see a potential problem here with a complete lack of fact checking on political advertisements. Well congresswoman I think lying is bad and I think if you were to run an ad that had alive that would be bad. That's different from it. It being from from our position the right thing to do to prevent your constituents or people in an election from seeing that you you live for the life of me. I don't understand why that company keeps trotting him out like that truly up his Own Talk Anymore. It's unbelievable I know. And how are you going to convince people that this is a well-considered policy when you show up in front of Congress like the kid who didn't and study for the test on us. I mean if you don't have an answer you don't know what I'm just saying this is why may that somewhat crazy sounding prediction. Yeah I probably at a high going for three weeks now. Now the other thing we should point out again is that because we did record record this in advance. There is the small hostility that facebook has already changed this policy because everyone around them. Now as saying like we don't want that. Yeah but but I'll tell you what there there's actually a great context to be had in this interview We're GONNA air here again because it goes back to the foundational document if you will all of kind of where we are. It's a nine hundred ninety six called the Communications Decency Act specifically section two thirty of that law exactly section to thirty thirty is the one that essentially says you're not responsible for things that users post on your site to understand what it's all about. We had this great conversation with sky. Jeff costs costs if he is a professor of cyber-security law at the US Naval Academy and he wrote a book. The book pretty much about this called the twenty six words that created the Internet and so here is that interview. Jeff Oh jeff thanks criminal. Thanks for having me all right. The twenty six words. Jeff hit no provider or user of an Interactive Computer Service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information created by another information content provider that is the relevant section of the Communications Decency Act of Nineteen Ninety six section. Two thirty which is how we got to where we are right. Yeah yes yes so to understand how we got to where we are. We actually have to go far back beyond earlier earlier than nineteen ninety-six and that's really the whole reason. Why Congress even past section to thirty and the reason is that there was this weird rule under the First Amendment that said distributors of other people's content can't be held liable unless they know or should have known that that content was defamatory or illegal? I and that worked well for bookstores that were selling books and so forth but when when we got to the Internet what happened was we had these services that frankly my students have never even heard of compuserve and prodigy That could very different approaches as to how to how to provide services online so compuserve was like the wild west and it did not do any moderation eh its users post anything want anything they want. Prodigy wanted to be family friendly so they had user policies content policies moderators and they both end up getting sued in the early nineties for defamation compuserve ends up having its lawsuit dismissed because the court says you're more like a bookstore so you you didn't know you shouldn't have known prodigy on the other hand was treated like a publisher because it moderated so prodigy was found that it could be on the hook for up to two hundred million dollars for a defamatory post so congress passed section to thirty to provide this very broad immunity for platforms because it found that there was this really perverse incentive that they were creating that the law created for these platforms. Saying if you don't moderate you'll get more protection and that's we're section to thirty comes in and that's when we're talking about publishers platforms. You really have to understand the real distinction. You have to go back before that well because because what the law aimed to do was say there's going to be some protection for you if you engage with this content some way if you do basic moderating but you can't catch everything everything right then you won't necessarily be liable for the stuff you didn't catch and you really write in this book and we've been talking about this for a while. This is the you say. The two thousand six words created the Internet. This is why read it Google twitter. AOL Youtube have not been sued out of existence. Many times over for this is why we have the Internet economy that we have today. That's exactly right so when you look at where the most successful platforms are based. I mean most of them are based in the United United States. And it's really not an accident it's A large part is because of sections thirty. The United States really has the broadest protection for platforms for user generated content content in the world. I if you look at Europe for example You just cannot see the same business model working in your in Europe as it does in the United States because they're just they would be liable for so much of what their users post. So I I. I'm wary of me being the rain on the parade guy here But Nineteen Ninety six twenty three years ago so as you say in the book at the time the two thirty was passed. Only forty million people on the planet had Internet access. Here we are for now two thousand nineteen eleven. Gazillion people are online and yet we are still using a law from prehistory really really to regulate what happens on the Internet discuss. So yeah I mean I think that a lot of the criticism of section into thirty actually agree with quite a bit of it. I have mixed feelings about its utility. Currently I think we the the big problem that we have right now is. We've really really built this entire industry the trillion dollar industry on the shoulders of section thirty. So I think but there still were harms back then. There were very real harms that were being caused by user content the second case ever decided with sections thirty in nineteen ninety seven was a case where a mother sued. AOL Well because ailes chat rooms were being used to market pornographic child pornography had her. Son I mean that those are tough cases even back then so I mean yes. They're they're really terrible harms. That have come up a lot of recent section to thirty cases but I think we also also keep in mind. There's been this sort of this tradeoff that's existed since the beginning since sections who thirty was passed well and it seems fair to say you know what's interesting is that this particular regulation did give platforms pretty broad latitude to moderate content like it specifically typically said you have this latitude to be in there to to set up filters to as a private company exercise your right to create the kind of environment. Yeah you want to create and you still won't get sued for missing some stuff and yet they didn't and it feels like that's a decision that is worth discussing. Why why why does twitter have such a hands off approach? Why has it taken youtube so long to say you know? We think that we're going to take stronger action against certain certain kinds of videos and I get that censorship hard game. But what's interesting is that they did take such a hands off approach for so long when it seems like they wore better protected. I think there was a laziness for quite some time I and part of it might have had to do with section two thirty that they didn't need to be so proactive. Another part of it is that we and it's hard to really paint with a broad brush of platform because there really are more platforms than just facebook and youtube and Google But there are the big ones and I think the bigger problem that I at least have had with them. Is that only in until recently until the past few years when they've really gotten criticism they were so secretive about a lot of these practices. They would have these broad policies but there was no real transparency. I in my capacity at the naval all academy I work with intelligence agencies as well for other types parts of my research and I'll say I often felt like I was dealing with intelligence agencies when I was dealing with the large platforms. They were so secretive creative and they've stopped doing that and they've started explaining some of their approaches that they've taken and some of them have actually been very thoughtful But I think transparency is key the if they want to be able to preserve the current business model that they have to do you think they've got that transferred the necessary transparency. Now I mean molly and I've talked about this a lot right. I mean facebook's answer to any problem that comes up with facebook is always more facebook Yeah it's getting it's getting better. It's not it's not anywhere near where I would wanna see and again. This goes far beyond beyond facebook My my concern. I think even if you got rid of sections thirty they will whether whatever storm comes to them I worry about the smaller platforms that want to be the next facebook and Google. I don't think they have the same clout the same ability to help craft whatever rules come out so but yeah I mean I. Yeah I think that the there needs to be far more transparency about the decisions they make but we also have to always keep in mind that moderation is really hard content that someone might find signed to be objectionable and terrible and harmful. Someone else might find to be their free speech and then you have a private company in the middle making the decision of well. What am I can allow it or not allow it? They're going to get criticized by someone. Yeah but but sorry. It's Eh Congress as you write. Congress decided to let the platforms have this power and the platforms. Ah Forms have proven themselves. Not Up to the challenge and the idea that we now have to count on Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey to defend free speech at the same time as they're running a for profit company that that controls information flow to billions of people seemed problematical. Yeah there definitely are some problems with the model so I mean in section. Two thirty was built on this theory of user empowerment meaning that Users would determine the community standards that they want and they would walk away from platforms if those platforms were not generally Meeting those standards. Now the big problem with that is you now have these. Massive companies is and. It's hard to walk away from facebook if you want to connect with your friends because or if you want to log onto a service that uses facebook log in all of those so it. I think that that's that's the bigger problem and I I'm not ready to pass judgment on. Yes or no is this a good or bad. Moderation ration- practice because frankly and I've been researching in this area for years. Now I still don't have the greatest idea I mean I we get bits and pieces but I I think we we need to have a lot more light on what they're doing and also have it more collaborative and figure out. What can they be doing better? And I think frankly. A lot of the recent debates debates might be pushing them in this direction because it's really existential for a lot of platforms. It is well like you said though locate. Let's say that altering fundamentally I think we have this question which is do we need to change sex in two thirty or do these big platforms need to change the way they operate because like you said if we alter turn thirty in a way that makes it harder for the next facebook to be built but facebook. Twitter and Google are a fine and able to absorb the blow and hire more moderators and throw awesome more on it. Then have we just essentially thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Yeah I think that's exactly right and that's why I think I'm I'm really glad that there are a lot of these discussions about section two thirty. I started pitching this book. Back in two thousand fifteen and I'll just tell you publishers Many publishers like what what are you talking. What's EC Nineteen ninety-six? Why do you want to write about this so I'm glad I'm really glad that people are are are really interested in this now but I think what we need to do is take the next step and say okay? If we'RE GONNA make changes to section two thirty or repeal it what will the Internet look like or what changes can we make that would achieve the desired benefits without as many costs. And I'm not hearing that nuanced discussion as much. I'm hoping that we can start having having it rather than just say section thirty s bad. Let's get rid of it. I think we need. We need to go deeper than that. Do you think Congress you know yes. Congress doesn't mind all the laws but eventually they have the vote. Does Congress have the capacity. Do they understand enough to be able to fine. Fine tune section. Two thirty right. Because it's not sacrosanct. Right the First Amendment is not an unlimited right and to thirty is not an unlimited. Clause do they have the ability to fine tune it in a way that will do the most good with the least I think so I mean I think they passed it. They I I'm not entirely sure based on my research. At least I think that there were only handful of people in Congress who even paying attention to the time when it passed but I think they do. I mean I know Congress gets really bad rap For its technological expertise especially in light of some of the higher profile hearings where there have been some comments that some senators on members of Congress made but I do think that I mean this really does come down to some basic equities here about do what are our values for free speech vs versus privacy versus security and I think that They're really some tough policy choices and one thing I remind. The platforms is that section. Thirty by and large large is not required by the First Amendment. So Congress with one with one vote could get rid of section. Two thirty this is not a constitutional the tool mandate and I so I think that the platforms that when I say they need to be transparent. They need to really demonstrate. What is the value of move this really extraordinary immunity? The Congress has provided Do you think they're worried about it. Yeah yeah absolutely so they so they know but to uh are they counting on the lack of understanding. I think so I mean I think there might be some belief in the power of entropy and the power of gridlock and I think I've either been a journalist or a lawyer professor in DC for fifteen years now. And I see a lot of ideas come here. And and then they don't materialize because they kind of got stuck or they end up getting at it in the worst case scenario for the platforms. They could added appropriations bill right before winter break and nobody notices till it sign so I mean that's something that can happen as well but I do think that there is this idea just like other tech legislation. There's been this big push for privacy. VC legislation which. I think would be wonderful. But that's kind of stalled as well because there's so many priorities. They're so little time there's an election next year so I I think that might be one thing. They're counting D. Do you think the debate has changed in the past You know shoe three ish now years. I guess since the two thousand sixteen election I mean there. There have always been social costs to free speech that we've been willing to abide right whether it's individual tax or you know The people saying horrible horrible horrible horrible things. We have decided that the value of free speech is such that individual Injury as it were will. We'll be tolerated in the name of a social good. Do you think it's changed now that the injury that's being done is to democracy in a lot of ways. Yeah so I- what's what's really interesting is section. Two thirty has really no two main vectors of criticism that really conflict with one another From largely I would say The conservative conservative side the criticism has been that platforms are doing too much moderation. They're censoring people and they at least the this criticism mm says that if you're not going to be this viewpoint neutral platform You don't deserve section two-thirty protection. Why are we providing this protection to platforms firms that will censor some voices? So that's the criticism from the right that you're not are are the that you're doing too much. Moderation the criticism from the left and I think this it really is because of the election the two thousand sixteen election is you are not doing nearly enough moderation and you're being somehow protected by section into thirty and that's giving you a disincentive so that's why when I say that moderation is hard. I think that's a really good example. Where you one side saying we want to get rid of section into thirty because you're doing too much moderation the other is saying you're not doing enough? Well I mean I think frankly one thing that would be good is to figure you're out. What is the adequate level of moderation that we want the platforms to be doing in a I think then going from there Well no pressure But you said you you said you haven't heard a nuanced conversation. I think we're starting one. If you had some a little prescription you know some some layers that you might be maybe twenty six more words that we could add to section two thirty. What what might that start to look like well so I think that one oh and this is where I I find I fall somewhere in the middle of the Anti and pro section? Thirty folks The pro the real sort of I I heard section to thirty folks will say no changes whatsoever. I would say that one. Big shortcoming is so section. Two thirty has an and this is where we really nerdy so So bear with me here Sections thirty has an exception for federal criminal so violations of Federal Criminal Law have never urban protected by section two thirty but section two thirty does protect platforms from state criminal. The problem that we've had is that obviously basely. DOJ FBI pretty are have limited resources and states have really in a lot of cases like exploitation for example. They've really Taken the weed on a lot of these initiatives yet. They've not been able to go after really bad acting platform so I like I think that we could figure out some sort of limited carve out for sections thirty four state criminal enforcement. That would really go a long way in my mind of addressing what. I've seen some of the more problematic cases states rights fascinating K.. Well no I mean that's super interesting because we are definitely seeing the states as you said take a much stronger approach okay that that's like that's nuance. That's like a simple. You know I feel like is dying to say the hines backside in the win- yeah this is good can find an answer to this. Exactly the conversation that's going to help get US started. Jeff Costs F is is the author of the twenty six words that created the Internet and a professor of cyber-security law the US Naval Academy Jeff. Thanks so much for the time. Thanks forever So I I still think it's a great interview it holds up. I it's just it's really really interesting and difficult and challenging an AH honestly for all the grief that gives Bergen and Jack Dorsey to some extent the guy who runs twitter and the folks at Google. It's it's a really difficult problem. It's a legitimate as he's in tractable problem. It is profoundly difficult and I have to say I mean so. Many people are becoming aware of section two thirty in ways both both accurate and inaccurate. Important phrase I mean when you have Sasha Baron Cohen writing op eds in the Washington. Post saying you know sections sections thirty should go away because it gives these companies like complete immunity from any ever having to do anything about anything ever and it's just like okay. Let's like Saywhat. You will about the economy that we have. Based on these companies in the end the companies that have been created as a result of these protections. Like oh you don't get Google search or duck duck go search or bing search like you can't have accurate search results operated by. I accompany without some version of section two thirty if a search engine could get sued out of existence every time. Something showed up that somebody didn't like like you don't Have Organization of information fundamentally let alone blogs or comments or all of the things that we take for granted in the Internet economy today and so people looking at section two thirty. I know I'm repeating a lot of things from the interview but in ways that just don't that'd be trae lack of understanding. Shall we say what Moeller said this. RT is an endorsement. I just yeah exactly such a valuable conversation all right. We're GONNA take a quick break when we come back. We will hear what you think is going to happen in the New Year predictions round three three. And we're back and it is just as this is such a good beat drop. I love it and get all excited now. It is time for you the listeners to give us your predictions but and and let me say this in my own defense. I was the guy who agitated for voice memos because I you know I did. 'cause it's audio We know we're doing that but we also know that it's a little pain in the two she for some of you So you know send us an email or a facebook comment will get it on the on the pod. That's fine not everybody is obsessed with audio even though I can't speak As as we are so we're doing it the old fashioned way this time reading your predictions off a plain old computer screen. So there you go. That's right just and here is the first one kept by the way I'm GonNa find a link to it. 'cause dropping made me think of this amazing thing that I saw and tick tock which is somebody did timing for all these like really popular songs that was basically like if you start. You know. Post Malone Sunflower at eleven fifty nine and thirty two second or panic at the disco like that that then the beat drop happens right at midnight this and he did it for like six songs. It's actually pretty awesome. Okay sorry back to Rome. It's cool but it's very new New Year's related. Here's the first one. Kevin Lee caster on twitter writes oil will dip below and stay below forty dollars a barrel by the end of twenty twenty as electric vehicles. Take off and new models titles become available strong disagree too soon perhaps eventually but not this year pretty soon but earlier in December Mercedes Delayed the release their electric SUV. Because the ones from Jaguar and Audi haven't been selling that well now it could be because they started like seventy or eighty grand but still also oils at like fifty five now. I don't thanks getting a forty but we'll see we'll do this year and maybe Kevin was right. Yep Kyle Wilcox on facebook writes I pretty kind. Molly have a serious discussion of universal. Basic can come in two thousand twenty. Make me smarter than more episodes on income inequality than any other topic by. Ub has never been brought up. I know we're like scarred. We had one episode until apart or something. Yeah there was there was also marketplace. We've done you be I a couple of times. What we ought to do is get any lowery on sort of early spring ash next year? I should just wrote a book. She writes for who she writes down the Atlantic Times. I don't even know But she wrote home about it. So yeah I mean Israel the prospects of becoming real our farmers here sure yes but Oregon disgusts her all right on twitter. bobcat arts is the emily rights or she perhaps rights. Somebody probably Tesla will unveil unveil truck sized autonomous cargo pas claim to disrupt shipping. Think a small shed with four wheels that steers in any direction where you can load four to five on a semi truck for super long halls. You know it's an advanced containerized shipping. I don't know about the autonomous board. I mean you know cargo budget. They're already thinking about an airplane. I could see that I mean. That's honestly that's not that different from delivery drones which are way scarier onsite or delivery There's all these little delivery bats now that are based wally shipped box. This is just that for trucking. I endorse doors Jody Pritchard on facebook wrote this if the Democratic nominee winds trump and the Republicans claim election fraud when no sense of irony or make up some some rule allows him to stay in office. I don't know about the last part but certainly I think if if president trump wins or loses there will be claims of election fraud for sure I mean there's he won and there's claims collection fraught so you know misguided and fake right because there's no there is let me just say this. There is no zero zero zero zero in person election fraud in in this country. Full Stop Right that does not mean that some Republicans have not floated the concept third term. Those core president trump so yup look out mark lush on facebook says a bunch of communist will predict an economic slowdown. Those same economists will be proven wrong. Those same economists won't be held accountable for their poor predictions and will be allowed to make more or an accurate prediction. Or as we like to say around here Tuesday I mean that has gone through that has already come through and a bunch of the same people who basically allowed the conditions additions that led to the financial to the Great Depression are still on TV saying all the same stuff or or or in the White House working as the director of the National National. Economic Council You know there you go do on a ball. No super great here in America Hears Todd Schultz on facebook quote. My brain says to expect worse in twenty twenty with continued societal drift away from trust in science but my heart is hopeful for a reactive shift backward toward more people working for the common good Amen. Fingers crossed yes without a doubt equal and opposite reactions. Yes Yup there we go. It's it's real so so speaking of ability we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA spend this again next December and we're going to see how all y'all did And you know we'll see what happens but lasts forever note that's right On the way let me give the newsletter plug again lens in your inbox. Every Friday morning covers some of the highlights of the week. Great Recommendations from you the listeners also our staff here marketplace dot org slash newsletters to sign up. Please yes please. Oh Oh my goodness Oh make me. SMART is produced and directed by Sam Anderson our digital producer is Tony Wagner senior producer. Jody Becker thanks to our video producer. Ben Go and to Erica Phillips our newsletter and our Amazon Related Echo device skill. This program was engineered by Ben Tolliday. Our theme music composed by Bannon Daniel Ramirez Executive Director of on demand is attorney says the Senior Vice President and general manager is Deborah Clark. And that's what we got. Oh Oh and that's the end. FIX IT in post everybody. Oh my goodness that was pretty funny. All right all right thank you.

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Getting Started in PRS with Mike Keenan

Everyday Marksman Radio

1:19:40 hr | 1 year ago

Getting Started in PRS with Mike Keenan

"I think that's where really people geek out a little bit too much third in say extreme over a lot faster than six succeed in the Dasher than the cartridge To me in that point. It really is kind of irrelevant. Hey there merchant tribe. You're listening to today's guest. Mike Keenan who they professional P R s shooter. That is the topic of today's interview is getting started in the precision rifle series. Now welcome to the show. This is the marksman podcast where we talk about tactical skills living a more adventurous life. Our website is everyday marksman dot. Co and there. You're gonNA find our social links are articles are episodes and links to are awesome humanity of marksman. Just like you. I am your ever faithful host Matt Robertson. Former military officer turns tech sector or corporate grunts shooting enthusiasts outdoors nerd. And your friend all now. I am excited for this interview because if you might not know this but I've been very interested in getting started with precision rifles shooting for a long time now. I've dabbled in here. They're doing some local matches even sort of building out a gun which is still in the shop at the moment. Getting some other work done. But I've never stepped up to doing organized matches like you find at the Pierre. S or the National Rifle League rl. I've never really dove into that area. I think part of my hesitation for that was because I didn't know what I didn't know. How also is this afraid? I wasn't going to have the right kind of equipment and to be honest. I think that's why a lot of people don't start. We know that we should go compete. We know where we can go compete. But we don't WANNA show up and look like fools so there's a lot of really great information in this interview that dispels a lot of those myths such as looking like a fool of your first time or showing it without the right kind of gear but Mike does give some great advice for getting started as well as the two. Most important things you can do for yourself at your first match all right enough. Outta me. Let's get to the interview and as always if you are pressed for time you can jump to the last five ten minutes or so and get my key takeaways from this interview with Mike All Right. Let's do Mike. Welcome to the everyday marksman school. Thanks for having me so I know I've got a bunch of your background here so prior Naval Aviation But I want to start right at the beginning of your competitive shooting career. How long ago was that? Okay that was backing. Nineteen Ninety four ninety five. Actually I went to the US Naval Academy and I shot for what we called the combat pistol team which was basically US PSA back bad. We being a collegiate export. They obviously had a lot of the Olympic style. Air Rifle Twenties and whatnot was not involved with that but actually started shooting competitively back in college. Okay so I wanna I wanNA know the story of your very first match boy. It's hard to remember to be honest with. You was happy to have my first. Kissel is a nineteen eleven springfield forty five weeks low. We pretty much all shot back then in. Us PSA I don't really remember too too much about the specifics of the match. I do remember them the first one I did. She had a small tire. Shoot House that we had to go through in. That was quite daunting in for me. Never having shot anything but Kind of a flat range type set up in practice so having to kind of wander through the house if you will Was quite a challenge in quite an eye opener for me that they had time. You remember how you felt that day. I was excited. You know we're all finally getting to go out and shoot a match in Rather than just practice school and whatnot so Hadn't really done a lot of that growing up at all so it was really really exciting to go in and be a part of something bigger than just the teen in the guys. I've been shooting at the academy. So you mentioned didn't do a whole lot of that growing up so that you have a lot of farms experience prior to that not really to be honest with you We do not own firearms in my house So I kinda shot with one of my best friends at the time. His Dad was not Dortmund midden avid hunter fishermen and whatnot in. We started doing a lot of archery and shooting. He would take us to a gun club. Sportsman's Club really that. Actually I became a junior number out. where we learn shoot rifles shot from rifles twenty two boys scouts and whatnot. But that's where I really shots and pistol in You know trapping skied. I guess I'm not sure which I would shoot at the time. And it was a shotgun. Shooting Claes indicate that's about all I remember And it intruding archery and whatnot. Kinda getting all into the fundamentals of that kind of you know sending something down range into a target so back to your first match that. How did that go? I don't think it went through well at are really honestly. I don't remember a lot from that match in particular about how I finish store. I mean certainly didn't say any records on fire by any stretch of the imagination. I know I didn't shoot myself or anybody else away didn't get he didn't kill anybody calls exactly. Yup. Yeah that was pretty much gone through. Even if the time because of the way we we called it we just kind of went in didn't even realize until later that we were actually liked that I was really shooting a US PSA sanctioned batch if that makes any sense because of the way the team was set up it wasn't Wasn't like it's probably not as accurate as it is back. Then I don't think was quite as big is it is right now and it is involved with a lot of stuff. I know we have a lot of collegiate teams shoot Gifford matches you know Different types of shooting scoring three God in pistol matches and even P. R. S. matches so I'm curious about the evolution than from that first. Us PSA pissing match with a springfield. Nineteen eleven which I own one as well springfield Though I don't think I ever shoot it anymore. I I should fix but I want to go the evolution from yeah. I'M GONNA lie a gun hipster now so I gotTa See. That's been my Go-to yeah there you go so. I WANNA evolution from that. Us PSA match with a with a nineteen eleven to Pierre S. Yes Sir. I shot someone that. Of course once I got out of school one. Aimo started becoming a lot more expensive so here I was going from shooting all kinds of free government ammo which was great to now a poor right out of college in not having a lot of money and and frankly meeting to concentrate more on going through flight school a lot more important than go entry matches all the time so. I've taken a little bit of a break. I shot here near. Didn't really too much right. Outta school Several years later once I kinda got a little bit further on on my career about back in the shooting again with that same nineteen eleven and then brought you know went past that ended up getting some glocks in. I have a customer two thousand eleven that I shoot for limits so I actually got back into shooting. Us PSA and then A lot of three guns south as well. Two and three guys Over the last seven or eight years maybe a little longer ago than that in from there kind of progress on P. R. S. I've always kind of liked the long range shooting. Does something treat me about hitting targets that really long range You know I'm sure you being one hundred and whatnot you know my original original concept of really long range probably like a lot of guys three to five hundred yards and a thousand was nothing that I would do consistently do well on eventually just triggered by a rifle and find rangers that could shoot and so how long you been doing the PR SP since then we've been about three years to. This is my third full season shooting. I had like one where I shot. A couple of two matches four seasons ago and then really start hidden heavy about two and a half years ago. Okay now this is a politics question. But for those who don't know and I actually am fuzzy on this. What is their distinction between Peres? Nrl or is this kind of two flavors kinda eight. It's basically to sanctioning bodies of long-range shoot competitive. Long range shooting at least where it's gone Ps Sison rifle series in the national rifle. League are owned by two different people. Travelling than Shinsuke owns the P. R. S. in very very similar. They've had said he differentiated between the two really is is starting to become a little more nationwide. It was split up a little more with the. Nfl was mostly West Coast in the in the PR mostly East Coast but really there Theorized really starting to take over not takeover. That's not the right word. Spread a little bit further into the West Coast have a lot more National matches all over the country and the unreal still a little bit more concentrated in the West than they are in the east coast so plush asked US early you mentioned. You have a custom pistol. What look what's your rifle. My rifle right now. I am running a impact action with a custom Benchmark barrel in six Dasher on an MPA chassis. What's Chessy say? Mpa is a masterpiece arms. Okay masterpiece arms okay. Their new matrix chassis half those a great guy You said your rifle right now. So how often as a professional shooter do you actually? Switch Rifles? It's more not that it's so much switching rifles. I mean it depends on what you really consider the rifle to be honest with you. Like for example. I think I shot in. I didn't treat it as much as a lot. Some guys I think I shot through probably five plus barrels last year if you consider a new chamber new rifle in Gaza shooting new rifles every couple of months Shooting Lot you might. You might burn out a barrel at a month to know a couple of guys that have done that she matches and training every weekend They end up shooting quite a bit. If considering actions in chassis is a lot of that stuff kind of gets swapped around like take the same barreled action? Drop it into different chassis or different stock if something hits my fancier new came out like the end of last year the new. Npa Matrix Chassis came out. And I was fortunate enough to get one of the first ones to matches before the finale and so able to it in this now so that was kind of a new rifle. Look if you look at the rifle it would certainly look different because the chassis or stock certainly brings out kind of what the rifle is but but frankly everything else on. The part of the rifle actually shoots him Will the bulk down the barrels? All the same thing so something you mentioned. There is a callback attention to said. You shot through five barrels last year. Now I I might be wrong. Six dashers kind of known for being a relative barrel burner right. No actually the Dasher in the snow is probably one of the easier ones some of the creed. Moore's tend to burn off the bowels. A little faster has his speed. Dasher from me was something I start shooting about the end of last season. So as I mentioned before a shoot for Alpha Munitions Brass Company in they came out with their Dasher at the end of testing for quite a while but They finally had enough Announced that the e in the fall of last year so is about. When I started shooting at at matches he'd been shot at matches since about last spring. But before that I was shooting caliber called six sexy so I want to ask the question on so five barrels. But halley rounds was that each barrels probably around twelve or thirteen hundred rounds. I think I shot seven or eight thousand rounds last year of just precision rifle Mo. Yeah yeah then the dry fires right and then everything else goes into it and the reason I asked that question is one of the points I tried to make. People is a lot of people. Think emphasize too much on picking just the right calibre or picking. Just the right this or that when they're not gonNA shoot more than like five hundred rounds a year and the real difference happens when you are burning barrels and six thousand rounds in a year. Yeah I think people actually make too much on the whether it's a barrel burner or not to be honest with you In the scheme of things when you're shooting especially if you're GonNa go and she competition barrels are very inexpensive There's not much else on the gun. You figure. Bow Blank somewhere in the three hundred. Twenty two thousand fifty dollars retail range few hundred dollars to have a chambered up in the scheme of things. It sounds like a lot of money but it really isn't a lot of money when you figure the average cost of today P. R. S. match is going to be somewhere around seven thousand dollars to go to for the weekend when you factor in travel time that could cost of the hotel Gas Food Bullets entry fee. All those things so you start spreading that out getting a couple hundred rounds more out of a barrel less. Darryl is really kind of irrelevant. I think Gosh where really people geek out a little bit too much third insane all extremo on the ballot faster than the six seed in the Dasher in the whatever cartridge To me in that point it really is is kind of irrelevant. You know again and that if you're not shooting that much it doesn't really matter on the on the other end the Kinda like what you're saying. Only shooting five hundred rounds a year getting an extra hundred or two hundred rounds out of your barrel isn't really a big deal either overall this career you've done between the pistol shooting in two gun and three gun shotgun. Claes appear s if you could narrow it down. What are the top five lessons? You've learned from shooting competitively teamwork in some regard Team where things are really like about P. R. S. as we all Kinda worked together. Nobody everybody wants to win but they WANNA win because they beat you not because you beat yourself or you had a problem. Everybody's very willing to help you out when that goes on so it's Kinda that that teamwork as far as you're not gonNA call like we're all one team. We're all one big family out there. Shooting even though are competing against each other discipline Certainly for keeping your head in the game with the stuff is loading you know getting getting their time management hard times cup for either. Sorry about that. Us was my top three anyway. So so the top three then. You have a teamwork discipline. And what was I I? It's team right through surprise sportsmanship sports to be better way to describe it rather than teamwork more than sportsmanship. And that's and that's honestly what brought me more to P. R. S. than out of all the disciplines. I've shot not that. I haven't experienced that and other ones. But but the the the sportsmanship. Npr is unbelievable compared to any other sports that are shot. And so for someone who's brand new and shows up. How is that Sports Shit? He's GonNa look to them if they don't have all the gear. Is that going to be exactly? That's exactly what it's going to look like in that's-that's exactly why it is. You could show up there probably. There's actually some places if you somehow had a problem with your rifle they People have donated rifle ammo optics all kinds of stuff that if your rifle went down and you had a problem where there's rifles for you there shoots you almost I mean. Obviously you just can't show up with nothing right. I mean we're not there to push through it but but I mean if you have a problem if you have years it's not working right or whatever they'll get you through. There isn't a piece of gear that I owed that another competitor couldn't use not normally a a new competitor to try something out before they purchase it or not no didn't realize it was there but frankly Mike Competition so if I'm happy to be shooting well I'm going for the win in the guy who's tied with hitting right there is like Hey Mike Can. I use this on the stage. Absolutely the answer is yes. I never ever had a problem on the flip side of that of ood. I need another bag because the stage requires this. Can I borrow your back? I've never had anybody say. Nah Not really comfortable with that. So you mentioned bags. I'M GONNA have to dig into that one a little bit. Because I feel like watching from the side. I have not done a Paris Match. I'm trying to gear myself into doing it. I'm learning as much as I can. So I'm considering you free consulting. Thank you so sportsmanship. So I see these different styles at bags versus tripods. I I feel like before sort of looking into this. My idea. This was a shot with a with a nice by todd and then go for it and I feel that. That's not actually how things happen anymore. So let's talk about some of the letter equipment for I know gear gear. Conversations are what they are but Yeah I think the biggest PC gear if you buy have to buy one piece of gear It would be a waxed canvas game-changer from Armageddon gear. I could shoot just about every single stage with that. Pc Gear in be successful now. There is some stuff when every once in a while you get in one or two stages that a little weirdly designed or whatever. They'd another article. Pc gear happens to help out a little bit but That's what I used for rear bag. It's pretty much the only bagai sandbag that Tom Made for me. That were truly welcome. Mob Five eight times getting on the pure skill stage need a little bit sitter. What the what. The Game Changer is most of the guys out there. Running a game changer. Four eighty eighty ninety percent of the match. So there's some variations on that like we bad makes a bag that's out there. Some other companies make some bags there that obviously they can't copy because it is patented I think But do similar things. If somebody else he shoots for another company or does something like that or happy. You know really like that one inch. There's this guy to do similar work but usually we all have a bag. That is very similar to the game changer. If not the Game Changer. And that will get you through most of this stuff either treating with it on its side Upside down the US all sides of it. It's not one way to sheet it. And then we also use it for rear back to so. Can you describe the Game Changer? Like what does it actually look? People can kind of get a sense of why it matters so much? It looks like a think someone looks like a n if you will like a big flat ended upside down V or however you WanNa look at it. I think of the square bag where the bottom of the cut in it and what that V does now now. The flat does have a little bit of a bump in it too but but kind of when you get it the fill in the right way. It's kind of squishy in moved around a little bit but what that does is when you go to anything. That's kind of thin like a two by four. That's on edge or gate or something like that is kind of the way to the bag clamps over in helps you give this kind of more flat surface in. That's the key. That's what the game changing part of. It is rather than just a square bags filled with sand or anything else that we used to using just kind of throw it on something as big and flat now th- that works perfectly well for those types of situations if you don't make rocker. Yana table or something like that. You're not using a bi pod. You can put that down and then lay it on there What are the keys? That bag though actually is is taking a little bit of the fill out and get getting a little more squishy so that the bag wrapped around the gutting gives you a little bit more purchase in a little bit. Better recall control. Okay cool I'll definitely be leaving linked to that in our show notes villains episode so I want to go back to the lessons Lawrence Sportsmanship and discipline and modernise a third one time management. Okay so yeah put that under disciplines time management. It's its own got. Yeah he's CA discipline kind of I guess. I looked at it disciplined throughout the whole thing. And that's another thing. I really liked about Pierre s over some of the other sports I felt it as much as dry firing doing some of that stuff with a pistol or a rifle at the house. Kind of Gulag guys do that. You have to do that but somebody's needs still I don't feel connected with. I don't know that sounds silly. I don't feel that connected with it Just because the recall difference in you can get your pistol pointed it in the light. Switcher the plug or whatever you're GONNA do there but but a lot of it has to do when you're shooting the pistol about managing that recoil to get that follow on shot quickly right In impe R S. You can dry fire and do that stuff in really. It's about when that rifle goes click. Dry Firing is everything lined up the way they are in the way these rifles at. I mean these rifles show accurate and pretty much everybody from the top to the bottom showing up unbelievably good rifles in super accurate. That your dry firing at the house. It's almost identical to how it's going to work in the real world if you're pulling the trigger where you need to pull the trigger. You're GonNa make an impact now. We're that triggers. Getting pulled the biggest question. There is going to be wind. Call Bell Ovation Wise. Most of the time. It's not too bad. And then are you steady on a barricade? Are you pulling that trigger where you need to do and the other thing I like staying with discipline side of it is having the discipline to get your aiming. Ac squared away. I mean it's a lot a lot a lot of reloading in time and what not to do that to to make sure you're having a munition in the guns clean and everything set up for it. Time discipline comes to time discipline in particular stage itself and you focus on the stage with everything going on in. See all the little things that are happening in in do it? In a given timeframe most of these stages would not be that challenging if I gave you ten fifteen twenty minutes unlimited amount of time where they become challenging is seeing all the things you need to see all the subtle wind changes all the subtle. Did you see with a puff of smoke was on a impact to know to make an adjustment? A little bit left with a little bit right as you're kind of bringing the gun back in Recoil Chamber. Another round moving to another physician setting up you can you? Can you do all that? And the time required. And that's kind of the time disciplined focus wired. Did shoot well. Pr S okay. That was really good. Answer so I want to kind of talk about getting ready as a Newbie. You know so it for someone who's never shot a match before what's the first thing you would want them to know. I want them to know in. This is the biggest mistake that I see. New Cedar showing up reds is they do not have to things done to the rifle You I cannot help you. Nobody can help you out there. If you do not have a good zero need not have good data for your rifle so you need to spend a good amount of time ensuring that within a half inches in good enough you know for zero. It's gotta be like Dead Zero within a tenth of memos so it was kind of funny talks about meals little sidebar mills. 'em Away Even WanNa sign right angular measurement It's like saying which we measure is more accurate inches or millimetres. It's kind of irrelevant right down. Desperate places it's all the same thing in the language of choices mills so if I start talking about stuff like that. That's kind of why most of US thinking nils. Like a tenth two-tenths rider two tenths off but whatever it's going to be is all talking about mills so if you're not really within about a tenth of a meal of your point of impact point of aim you're you're kind of setting yourself failure at distance especially when calls and whatnot in again new newer shooters showing up ads. And I've seen it like well. The side of the box in the street Moore says that the bullets go in twenty seven twenty five in the BBC on a bullet is this. And I put that into my foot free phone APP which are great And I'm not making hits and I'm not really sure what my zero is could be a half inch low side. I can't help you go at eight hundred forty two yards and full mile an hour wind. I try to help you so if I could tell anybody out. There is listening. Is You know we held on the fundamentals? I can help you get the rifle balanced the right way on a one day match like I can say. Hey how about this? Try this but if if you're data is not good can make impacts. You know you could have the perfect form. Just the Bulls. Not going where you wanted to go. Because nothing's dialed in right so in talked about collecting data. I mean from the way mentioned. The box says So we need we need to have actual crow numbers. Edu in again news. The biggest things to that all that stuff is just a place to start So so you look at. What would be considered good data for bullets You Get a burger bullet near looking up like you know the Bible let-let's is custom curve. Religious true doubt BC will that be sees only good for the twist rate velocity all of that stuff atmospherics philosophy decay and all that kind of stuff for when that Bolo is tested? Your bullet in your rifle is going to not be. The same thing is going to be close but it's not going to be exact so without like what I do when I set up you munition or a new rifle or testing. Ouch is yes. I collect all that. That data of elaborate are in Amac Nita speed for different situations and I will shoot over those things. I will get my average velocity over number rounds I will start out with ABC. I think is closed and then it will start shooting at rage. I'll usually start around. Might make a shot or two like four hundred yards and I go out and make a horizontal line all my targets. Because I'm not worried about left and right only worried about up and down in elevation and we'll go out and our true. My ballistics calculator savarona Castrol wisdom applied ballistic on it. So at four Hundred Yard Mike Casual says Oh Katy one point six mills odile won't put six mills. Mice go boom center punch five hundred yards here two point five Mills Center Punch. Go to six hundred yards okay. It's a little high so I stood. I start making corrections I start pulling speed or velocity on of my casserole so that my what I'm seeing on the target is actually what I'm seeing on my catch or normally what I would do is I would make an adjustment on my scope so if it said six point three meals whatever it was actually six point four. I you know I mean I was hit lower hidden high would make an adjusted and then okay. It's actually you know six point. Four meals for six hundred or whatever that would be thousand yards. But whatever the number would be I'd I'd I'd write it down in that kind of make some calculations one of the basic things we kinda ideas from about zero to five hundred yards yards speed tends to be a little bit more important than BC and then from five hundred or six hundred thousand. B C's tends to be a little bit more important than speed so if I'm out further if I make energy a smaller adjustment with BBC. The it'll move more verses making speeding closer y'all to make large adjustment at four hundred yards we'd be ceded to make any effect going up and down versus smaller just met with velocity and then of course you may need to add it a little bit of velocity. Come back to make sure that you're still lining up to one thousand needed to add a couple of tenths ninety two you'll see change at BC a little bit and you you might need to bring that back A little bit more velocity and closer and again that loss. He's not gonNA make a big deal out arranges it will enclose. Yes so you're saying all this is like you can. You can have the numbers you can guess but it's just a guess you actually have to shoot a gun and it's your God. You have to shoot your rifle because again twist rates by tax law got this barrel is got this twist which all those things will effect. Bc bullets coming out a little bit faster than my bullet even overshooting the same ball in the same twist rate your BBC because it's an average calculation 'cause UPC's actually changing as it goes down right right you know the BBC guys that actually will set up like two or three different profiles in their ballistics calculator. Like four hundred. Four hundred seven hundred seven hundred till whatever or. I'm just throwing numbers out there but something like that. You're velocities decaying social disease. There's there's multiple ways to attack that problem but you have to know what it is if I tell you the target is eight hundred forty two yards giving you like what you've talked about some snipers this stuff before. I mean none of the hard things that a lot of those situations is to get an accurate range Npr's were fortunate enough for the most part to get an accurate range. There's no sense to take advantage of that if you're not if you don't have that perfect elevation dialed in like you're just so behind. The curve is going to be painful. Yeah that's one of the things I think. A lot of people. They kind of have this alcl myself in here but like a romanticism about. Oh I'm GONNA mill the target and estimate the range and the but the margin of error on that is so high. I love getting arguments online with hundreds of us a question of like first focal plane versus second focal plane. Why one's better than the other day insist. They have to have a first vocal. But now I'm big proponent of first focal plane but also big proponent of the glass available so yeah you're right you're not gonna be able to target on an unknown distance with the unknown one thing if I could say well. This is specifically this height. Then you might get close but when you're talking about humans animals or any of that stuff like okay is at thirty six hundred. Thirty seven The height difference jeans. You know me and my wife and by Sunders truly all you know all that none of us are gonNA mill Before standing next Right like which ones the thirty six inches right and then and then at margin of error comes out. Like if you're out at eight hundred twelve hundred yards then. It's total miss yet. Solis so to get around that you're suggesting it should basically have a laser range finder Well it appear rest match now. Some guys are advocates. That depending on where you're at it most of the Rangers that I shoot at. We've been pretty fortunate where the Rangers have been pretty accurate in that does tend to be kind of a bone of contention. Because if you're going to tell me what the range as there needs to be accurate otherwise. Usa accurate rain just then it becomes not fair so most the rangers. Now I have shot a couple of matches out west where the ranges have not been quite as accurate in in. Those guys tend to carry more of the latest range. Finders have pretty good ones and used him most the time. I almost never. I don't think I used one in a match last year at all so actually. I didn't know this so I always assumed that this was unknown distance. So you're saying that the I should tell you how far it is. Oh absolutely yeah yeah. They got away from that in the most. Pr Stuff along time ago because when it ends up happening is you know unless you're gonNA segregate people like pre imposed shot which again a lot of the matches around everybody sitting right next to each other. You know what I mean. It's it's can't have stated you'd be there for three three or four days if you had to have you know miles in between stages and doing stuff kind of. That's kind of the way like man the sniper challeges setup but yeah so all the stuff they'll hand you the range book you know Friday afternoon in all. The Rangers are in there for the entire match. Okay well that's really good information to know I didn't know that. Yeah Yeah in fact. I'm shooting match this weekend. Of course the fires are out they. They they close it up online like a week before you know as you can look at like kind of what you're GonNa do what ranges you'll have to shoot okay all right so keep going this conversation with like George. We're getting ready for a NEWBIE. So you said things you need to know your zero and you need to know your data no way around that APPs. You have to know it okay. So honored break this to a couple of categories of rifle caliber optics and any extra supporting gear. That we wouldn't go so I want to start with rifle We kind of already had a little bit as conversation here. But if I'm a NEWBIE SELES I you know. I can't afford to go get a nice custom. Built precision rifle Where do you think people should starting? This probably ties together with caliber too but the cartridge. Yeah I mean unfortunately this is not a poor man's sport you know there. There is no Four hundred dollar Glock you know. Let's go shoot production class like US PSA entry into this year you can show up with A Lotta differences. I'm assuming your question you want to something. That's reasonably competitive. I mean you know you I heard some Guy Reading about shows up to a match with a ruler Number One. You know single shot route number one and then you can show up with anything. But I'm assuming you're talking about somebody that it wants to not be competitive like they're going to win but like not show up with a Ruger number. One thirty thirty years iron sight rifle. I mean we something. That's within like what should be shot. Yes they want to show up and have fun right exactly. It actually hit targets right. You WanNa you WANNA show up and you want to shoot better than five percent of the targets out there you're gonNA need to get into something. It a minimum like the loser our PR or teeth actually. I'm a huge fan. Teak is I've got a KIKA CPR. That I use a little hunting down. That gun is a hammer as probably one of the better gones to get into in near going to all be I think what the Ruger our pr where they. They're like twelve and fifteen or something right around there. So that's I think where that that C. T. R. ATTACK ONE IS. I think there's a whole bunch of it and I'll be honest I don't I don't know all of them like Gary's in the What's the other brain that everybody shoots the lock barrel Savage savage savage? You know there's a bunch of those rifles. That will be reasonable like there. You'RE NOT GONNA YOU'RE NOT GONNA be blazing it away. You are going to be at that. Point Somewhat Limited by the the accuracy of the rifle in the system out work. Show for all. So you you're GONNA be behind the curve match now you can step up a little bit more. There is a pile manufacturers right now that are making fantastic rifles in about that like two to twenty five hundred range I knew peace arms the because that was where the production class was They just bumped it up to twenty five hundred dollars. It was a two thousand dollars for the rifle so look bad. Rock rifles has there's Pva which valley arms had their middlemen rightful. I don't know what the status of that is that you're still making him or what the deal is Mpa had their production class rifle. And those are fantastic value for the money. I mean that is every bit. I mean the NPA in particular. I mean it's a it's their custody. They do it because they do so much in house. They make their barrels. They make they make thirty bucks central barrels back in the day so exciting story how he actually got an A. P. R. S. L. E. Elliott talked to him due to get that whole story. We as another whole conversation. But it's fantastic Jordan. How they got into precision rifles in what they do it. So they're able to offer and they run on the Curtis action the Curtis makes four. Npa wither able to Kinda. I think it's little bit less milling. It's certainly not any less quality but as you well know and you get. Cnc machines machine. Time is price right. If I can get an extra part at a day that you that that machine longer takes you to get out of the machine the more cost. That's the bottom line on CNC machines. So they're able to kind of do a little bit less milling or something. So they're able to get these rifles standing tastic value in frankly that rifles probably every bit as accurate as my full custom. Built Is Ways. That goes so that really. If you can pony up and get there again is unfortunately just not a poor man's sport in the rifle That really gets you into. You're not limited anymore so just kind of could pulling on this thread some more see mention Titas and rigor our PR an income not price range the way so my personal rifle that. I've been kind of building up is built around at how action betted in a manner stock. So is that for the beginner. Like that okay. They'll probably work assuming it shoots. Well I mean every rifles different. Yeah Yeah Yeah So. That's enough to go have fun. Absolutely I mean the actions are GonNa be there. I'm not an smear with our action. What what Carol going on. It was set up every now so I bought a complete complete rifle. It's IT'S A. It's a heavy barrel three twenty edge all eventually that but but yeah so. It's just kind of a standard. So the how actions are mullet. The old Saito so flat bottom so really nice batting. So yeah yeah yeah something like that would would absolutely get you in now again. The out of the factory where you're going to be limited so for example like what you're talking about it in just to understand the left and right lateral limits if you will so you talked about a twentieth threw away so ideally you would be running something if you really run a three await. Npr S you'd want to shoot something around twenty eight inch right to get the extra velocity that you would need in a three way caliber. So that's Kinda like unfortunately that same thing my Tika my Tika. Ctr'S TWENTY INCH FACTORY. Bow in a hammers. But but I but because Two hundred per second slower than I would be with a full length barrel. Why start pushing that thing out? Past eight hundred fifty nine hundred yards It it becomes a little bit of a challenge right. I mean I will. I will wear somebody out at five hundred yards. You want yard. That rifle is unbelievable. You know what I mean. Because it's it's right in his wheelhouse of where it's going but when I start stretching it out that that's where I start having a little bit year. The dispersion of the bowl is getting a little bit further apart but the reality. Is You know we all like to think that we're going to go out in half of this match is going to be a twelve hundred yards. The reality is you could probably miss it. Most matches everything over a thousand yards win the match because the reality is only a couple of targets that are out that far now granted you hit everything else. But but I mean it's not like you have fifty percent of your targets at nine hundred and fifty thousand yards even been even facilities that have that kind of distance. Don't have that kind of distance for every stage so that's a really good also a good bit of information there so I probably pulling the CAL. Were questioned the question anymore. Kinda mentioned the three. Oh it's the old. The Old Warhorse always looked at it. As you know if if if you're like me and that's what she bought shoot it until Burns out you'll you'll learn more by doing that than rushing out to buy the latest greatest and the caliber wars But then then what? So what trade offs do you think are out there from like the next step? The next step is you've got really wanted to choices the first decision to make it. Are you GONNA reload Or or you crazy rich. If you're crazy rich you can get somebody else to reload. There's plenty of companies out there like Copper Creek that load handling quality ammunition cartridges. Another one in all of the kind of what I would call oddball calibers right like anything you want. Six hundred forty seven six three more. I mean all the normal stuff to you know Dasher. Exc- anything out there that you want. They're loading ammunition for start coming in at a price point that you know is going to be challenged challenged. Their new shooter news. Not there it depends on what your economic status. If you're rich doctor in your time is better valued spent taking picking up an extra shift in the Er maybe order ammunitions the way to go. I got a friend. That's like that you know. I mean he uses doctor isn't worth his time to reload. I mean frankly is the hours. He spends reloading. Could make more money than it would cost to buy ammunition so he buys ammunition which makes truly smart financial sense but for the rest of us. Don't make that Kinda money You need to decide. Are you GONNA reload? Not If you'RE NOT GONNA RELOAD ZANY. Need to stick with something that really good factory match grade immunization is available for in frankly those are two cartridges in my mind that's either six five creed more probably more realistically. Sixth Street more Really not much else out there in factory munition that you can get on any of the major websites in order a case amunition. It's not you know five dollars around four dollars around like I said some of the more specialty places. So that's really the first question you to ask yourself. It's not like which one of these is better or worse than the others all of these cartridges. Let's face it. S and most of those ones are pretty much on the six millimeter. They it has to do with recoil management. And that's not recoiled. Like oh my shoulder hurts recall. Its recoil in shooting off of these crazy Ricki. Barricades in seeing where that bullet went whether to impact or it's admist An impact where went on the versus. Where I'm aiming is just as important to know if I miss on to be able to just fear neck shot with you. Made her a proper wind. Caller Nodar sees the picking up or as you're continuing on stage. So first and foremost she'd ask yourself. Are you going to reload or not if you're not you now have limited yourself to a couple of cartridges? My MIND ON THOSE. I would probably go with the tree again. Just just because that's Was exterminator just kinda where it's at in Pierre? S If you are going to reload now. The Sky's the limit really dealer's Choice. there's pile agree cartridges out there and frankly unfortunate enough to be involved with one of the companies that has pioneered to probably best six year. Carter's been waiting for Having brass now one of the one of the downsides shootings Dasher has always been fire forming. And it's a it's a tricky fire form than a standard improved cartridge with the forty degree shoulder. Kind of a lot of that metal is really going forward so guys kind of really shied away from it when I don't have to now there. Is this factory. Brass available for the Dasher The factory GT brass from both Alpha and order. Today this GT. There is if there is a six zero six creed more if you really like neck and stuff down there six by forty seven there's just so many cartridges out there and then you decide which kind of what you want Kind of like buying cars rhetoric blue. Some tried to let me go. You said some people really put a lot more Muslims cartridges. In the hands of somebody who's knows how to shoot more importantly in the Build a rifle is gonNA be Pontiac every single one of those cartridges currently being shot in people winning with including six treatment where we had a discussion on that. I'm one of the boards the other day like all nobody shooting secrete more Mike. Diver guiding gave precedent or Steve. Mc I mean just one The North Carolina Match. Just one last weekend with a six three more. So and this kind of calcareous in this one because Millimeter class because recall reasons But there is a division of pure s right that that still is only three. Oh eight or two to three right. The tactical division correct yet. There is still tax evasion in P. R. S. Exactly I wish I could spout out all of the rules At believe they kinda changed a little bit from the way it was several years ago? Now there's a weight limitation in speed limitation. That's different from the standard thirty two hundred feet per second for everybody else in open division somewhere around twenty eight or twenty nine hundred feet per second. It's is basically because guys were ended up like really hot Rod. You know her fifty five grain bullets go smoke in fast in the idea of task was to allow police in military to be able to use kind of duty ammunition duty rifles. Kind of like what? You're what you're bringing along twenty type barrel your little bit behind but if I put you up against either somebody shooting fifty five thirty one safety in your shooting. You know seventy five grain factory duty Am Lake. Twenty five fifty years disadvantage in that. That's not what the idea that class was so they bring it down okay to kind of bring it back in. So the only shooed seventy seven or some green bullets in two to three in like one seventy eight in in in low in three. Wait okay all right so move onto optics then you kind of a couple of times here. So the general advice when you look around forms as it really. The Glass Co. should be more expensive than the rifle sitting on an earlier in the conversation. You mentioned you advocate the best glass. You can buy so right off the bat. I want to ask the question If I have limited number limited amount of money to spend where should I put that like exceeding brands or you're talking about like optics so it would be? Should I put that money more towards a good good glass or toward towards the rifle itself? Unfortunately can't have one with you. Don't be like okay. So you buy the most expensive scope out tangents later put it on Walmart. Seven hundred riding is kind of irrelevant right at it is. There's no real compromise that's that's Kinda the old adage. Let's spend as much on your rightfully. Doing you're gone in rifle and scope comes into play. You can't if you've got five thousand dollars to spend you can't spend five forty five hundred on a on a on a scope in five hundred dollars glass and you couldn't do the reverse right. You GotTa Kinda do twenty five hundred gives you kind of the Best Bang for the buck. An Nets probably fairly true. I mean you've got to kind of look at your budget and again and it you know I hate to say guys out. There is just not achieve sport in that stuff matters Glass matters stepped up into Been Fortunate enough to step into a bit of some pretty Nice glass deleted. See Now it's not worth a lot. You the difference between any of these top tier scopes anything from you. Know the vortexes Bush now all night force to you know Schmidt and Bender in came to the ADA is maybe worth one. Anybody considered the lowest end on that scale to the highest end on that scale is probably worth maybe one to two points an entire match. But when you start doing that and then you like okay. We'll how do you weigh your powder? And how good is your mission? Is that worth the point? Is You know the way you rifle is. How it's done is at the point. That's how you pick up a point here point. They're here and they're aiming these matches or settle between the top ten places covered by seven points. You know that one or two points matter So I think a better way to look at this is that there is there is definitely a point of diminishing returns on just about everything but in terms of optics then There's a tipping point. Where hey this is pretty good enough that you should be focusing your efforts elsewhere. So does sound fair. Yeah that's that's probably pretty accurate in their on in that case you know. Of course you needed to have is something that you can dial something that's got some sort of radical in it that has the ability to you. Measure she can hold over. Not just you know cross radical in. It doesn't necessarily have to have a tree in it or not. I don't some of mine have trees and some of them out But it also has to be mechanically sound. So that's one of the big things you know when you dial it to six meals in the dial back zeroing dial it back six mills just as a bullet impact the same place each time do that. Repeatability huge says a couple of things you mentioned I want. I want to send a little more time on in So number one earlier you mentioned. I woke applying second focal plane. I feel like everybody is hands down will say I welcome plane. I'd be saying it for years to Yep But if you're not million tone yes so in. This game is definitely yes okay. Why is that well? So when you take a million targets in. That's where people mess this up milling targets. Why would you ever mill target not maximum affiliation? We were talking about the inaccuracies. Before why would I ever mill targeted a thousand yards ish? Sixteen when I have a twenty five dollars go. I mean is that doesn't make any sense and if it's if it's at a point where I don't need to do that it's at two hundred three hundred yards. I can just pull the trigger because the drop on. It's a little so if you're in a position where you need to target like an hunting situation or some of these other ones union. There's no reason to ever do that at anything less than maximum power because you need to be able to see the definition between the two right you know is it. Is it point two mills? It is like point. Two five nails are point. Two two mills or you know what I mean. Where exactly is that as that in a first focal plane or any anything in the middle like it's a smaller and smaller so there's no reason to do that in our game now so that that's the side because we don't really do that now in. Pr Us the first focal plane comes in because most of the time we're not shooting at Max magnification like me personally. Shoot somewhere around the sixteen seventeen power for the entire match. Some four hundred yards. Frankly out two thousand twelve hundred yard targets on my bump power up a little bit from going out that far so that gives me enough field of view. I can see everything that you see going around the target like little things. I want to pick up the win. Mirage and the stuff underneath a target but also gives me enough definition knee in the radical itself to be able to make proper wind holes. You know so in my whole two or three tenths or one one point two mills like radical at has a mill mark at every point two radicals tick and. I prefer that over the half. Neil Neil HALF MILK. Bill marks which is a little bit little bit better. Start SHOOTING TARGETS. That are which allow targets your point three point. Four mills wide having a mill marked to be able to hold appoint to appoint threes is important rather than okay. Where where? Where's point three if I if I got a HALF BILL MARKETS. Kinda here you know. It's not not accurate as it needs to be okay. I'm GONNA saw the first focal plane piece of that. So it kind of gives you the follow up question on that one and as you said you you re shoot on sixteen seventeen power most of the time so is that the ideal range mostly we're gonNA use whereas the point of like you're just buying silly power now and now like why there's so many thirty thirty five power scopes in the market. If most most of what I've heard is people shooting fourteen to eighteen. Yeah I mean I think I think it's mainly because of that and then also not where I do shoot. That is at one hundred yards. You know what I mean like. When you're zeroing your scope like the tighter you can get the more accurate like okay. Mic machine. The left side of that. The right side of that dot is kind of like how accurate can you be with a flame away dot org dot right so the more magnification you get you Gotta? Feed it plus across tracking. I mean I mean guys who sued. I think a lot of guys have classes mattress. I don't know a lot about that particular discipline but they're shooting higher power stuff so maybe you have cross discipline scopes and that there's this station right rage guys like Cedar the Vortex Fort Half To. Who's at thirty or twenty eight or whatever that is you know? They're just doing the eight ex-director seven ex-director sexual rector whatever that's going to be that's kind of where they set the bottom whether they set the top on it. I think they're all kind of about the same or by shooting at now as far as what people shoot actually shoot in the match. That kind of varies a lot. I think a lot of the top shooters Kind of more where? I'm shooting at sixteen. Eighteen power ranged. I think a lot of the newer shooters ten shoot in that like twelve fifteen hour range And I'll piggyback on something else that we were talking about earlier. Like what do you need to be able to do with your first match? You need to be able to pull up the scope and find targets See that a lot of times guys looking down range. You see the the white spotted target us to they. Put The gun up with guns pointed thirty degrees the last like. Hey Man you're not even you don't even close you get that thing. Going down. Range enact net happens to do with guys back that night. It's field with US bigger. Well there's a target and then the back in as you get better and better you know. The guys are able to throw the rifle up on the barricade. And then they look the scope and even at high magnification now. They're still looking at the target. So now they're faster than reach up. Go back and forth in. They have that ability but the first focal plane scope with a with the details. A little bit better between you know like a point to point three hold or whatever it might be okay now. You mentioned Christmas tree or a tree radicals earlier so I I've been you know reviewing some different options in optics classes and I've kind of it's interesting because I had never actually mounted a tree radical before but I've had plenty of mill hash and I thought I would like the tree lot more than I did. I feel like we got a lot busier and then as I was thinking about something else you said. Is it really most of the time I feel like if I'm doing like elevation and probably GonNa Crank on the Turret? You know unless unless I know. They're stages were. Hey you can't dial so holdovers the way to go Wilson is two things. The there's is really I mean I know guys Guy Mattress say he does. He runs a trimmer to trauma. Three radical and. He doesn't dial anything at all but he hold over every single thing. He needs to win dots in that. But I think that he is definitely the Odd Man out. He was nice guy but it means. That's that's Kinda. The lower side of is not many people do that My perspective is I initially when I started getting in his game with what everybody else I read this. Read that especially a a three Garner in shooting. Kinda like BBC radicals next styles and like a one six hour razor. That I thought well I wanNA treat you know. I'm going to be here and I'm going to hold over right. You'll fast because I'm thinking speed always think it's speed coming from. Us PSA in three gut like managing to get this thing done right. You know is fast. Behold Miller is really not the case so one of the things as I started getting a little bit better than that again. One of the things start picking up trying to pick up say some of the barrage and some of the grass and those things moving in between shots like Leaning over the same way it was you know he's not when I've found for me personally. Was that the trees that I was running out. Now I say all this but my car is a radical but it's kind of radical. They offered at the scope. Visit great scope but I had moved away from that because I found the scopes I was running. That really blocked a lot of blower part and I found myself getting on the radical than half depressed muzzle a little bit to get the target in the upper field the radical or the upper field of the scope above the radical to kind of. See all of that stuff with Mirage and grass and we ended up obviously a lot of substance below the target right not above the targets so I had gone away in the other part of it is. You're only gonNA need like you mentioned a couple of thing they're about like well mostly GonNa dial unless I have to this date dictates that I cannot dial that has to hold and that's true but even without a tree radical it depends on what kind of wind you have that you need to hold because if the wind is that significant then you're not really going to be off that centerline rights. If I've got a hold. Dial your first target. Let's say so. You dialed up whatever. It is three meals. And now you're GONNA hold one meal because you next targets for mills which just use random numbers. So you're you're at the main cross hair so the first targets. Now you've got wind along left and right because you're on the main cross yet right. You engage that target will if you're only holding. You know less edgy. Just off left as you really don't yearly not measuring right because we're so we can only talk about winning a couple a couple. Three ways usually unity something like hey. I'm holding straight up or you know favoring laughter favouring right or left edge right edge or like just off the edge so all of that is going to be relative to that. Vertical Line in the middle of the SCOPE RIGHT. Otherwise you start picking up wind a little bit more. Now you're going to step talking about. I'm holding a one point two in it and that's usually the center not to engage. So if I if I told you hey the wind was at one point three mills you instinctively know that I mean that one point three million marks to the center of the target at the left edge at the right edge which acts so it again. If you're in a in a win situation where it's not that significant even it two or three mills elevation. I'm Paul I have enough kind of just looking at the target that I'm shooting after I'm like just a little left to senator left edge just off the left edge. There's a fair amount of wind raging. They're up to probably half Miller better unless you start talking about you know. Twelve thirteen hundred yard shops which are probably not going to have to hold over. On the way they run the stage and more than five six seventy mile an hour wind. You really not going to be that far off at the center of the you need a tree that makes sense. Yeah Yeah So. It's almost exaggerated. How much you have to move left and right right and so the only thing I've had it happened. One time match. I told YOU MATT runs. That set up where he set up. A stage could use a match director for his great match where rifles match last year where he set up like a target that was at like three hundred a target. That was at eight hundred two. There was a significant. You had to shoot one and then the other and then move one and then the other one of the in set up like ten five or six position so it was like ten or twelve shots so it was a lot of movement in back in Rehab and to be up in a day that was running ten miles an hour wind so that was the only. I think one of the few times in several years shooting that I had to kind of like shoot one and then I was what I call a never neverland run and Scott Tree where. I'm just kind of like about here and I think that's kind of looking through it so it's Kinda rare in my in my opinion that happens that I really am looking at you. Know that. That radical I'm counting this is over here because it's just the way I shoot. I end up dialing enough where it doesn't really matter last piece here supporting gear so in this conversation you've mentioned a Kestrel. You've mentioned a bag. Is there anything else you think someone should know before the show to a match or they should buy? I mean obviously by on I mean it's like Vajpai rear bag which is bad. You gotta show up that right. That's that's minimum mean deciding rifle. You never ever buy this. As kind of a minimum of dig it showed up to a match with a byproduct a rear bag. Hopefully through a rear bag like a like a game. Changer style. Your bag the old school like little tiny San Socks. He's not gonNA quite get done for the rest of the match in your ammo you in a phone APP. That was true. Dude you do pretty well you know you put all that stuff backpacking walk around with your lunch water bottle you know you got eighty five ninety percent of what you need As you progress through the things that they're starting to do the field is just getting so so good. I mean if you look at the standings the point spreads between the places is so tight. I mean you start looking at like fortieth eightieth place in the nation to spread by like four points five. You know what I mean. It's over an entire year. You've hit five or six targets is different between twenty thirty slot and see she. It's that that competitive tens of points. They're going down. I think like three decimal places some crazy to To get your point it's that it's that competitive so when you start getting at that level now. Having the ability testing different skill sets at each thing can you? Can you run a lot of positions very quickly? I will be stuff at the finales and some hard matches where you're run like ten or twelve different positions one shot at each vision. Move lead a one shot. Move when chop move since like? Can you get that fast? You know what I mean. So that's a skill set. It's the wind reading you know. Let's do fly guys could of the troop line like Elaine up on the Tower Gonna? Shoot you eight hundred nine hundred dollars out to twelve hundred. If you're going to do to like how well you win win you see you. Mrs was going on out there. There's some of the speed stuff and then there's some of the other things like shooting off does a try pot for tripod rear support and there. Is You know low ports in high ports and different things like that? So there's all these little most of the time I know when I started shooting some of this stuff I was lucky enough to be friends and silver macrey show is You know one of the best shooters out. He's won like three years. Early won the series and so I was actually fortunate enough to know him prior in shot with his amateur in the gap grind When we did that one of the things he kinda say the need when we first did it. It was like Luda barricade barricades barricades like low medium or high in in for ninety eight percent of the situations. That's true now. They're starting to get in a couple other little things where it's like. They're trying to test you. Have the skill set. You have that skill set in playing at that level. Then you're going to start eating to be good with a tripod your point and you need to be good with a thin dagger needed start being with this and that and speed and everything else but then again again flick is showing up that you know this is just hoping to hit a bunch targets out there and you really well in you know have a time. Inexperienced investments Yeah by pod. Rear Bag ammo that works and You know phone APP. Can you probably going to do pretty well? And frankly like I'll be there. You know you can use my tripod kind of kind of the way it is. I'll try to try to use it. Now say pitcher in there is like no good ideas at a match Egos No? Hey I've done this before a fantastic idea at how this is not a good idea. That's a horrible so but as a new shooter. That is a good idea. I mean like people do think about that in in and I do. I do encourage a new shooter to show up to a one day match. You know and they need to use that to learn you know everybody wants to be competitive and we all are we. Didn't you didn't show up to the match to not be competitive right like that's why you signed up and did it it. It some point your competitive with somebody. Even if it's your group of friends with yourself you WANNA do better. And so sometimes that does limit people because they're like a shot like that before you have done that like them but you do. Is this facility like training facility like this all the time like no like well? This is your opportunity to give it a try like watch how you know this. Guy Right here. He's winning the match. Watch how issue she like that. Well this is your opportunity to give that a try right. So don't be afraid to try. Don't be afraid asses guys like hey how did you do that in? Go up in fail miserably at it. I mean I did but I I. I did our members shooting with your friend of mine. His name is Kevin Shepherds fantastic shooter in Kevin has the ability to go up with is like fifteen different bags in build a position that super stable all these bags and do it like unbelievably fast. Since again it was a guy that I was hanging out with you. Shoot this stuff. When I was a kid do that at all. I was horrible at it. I can't go through. All these bags built his position. Like No. No. You're not going to build that position you're not at all so You know sometimes you're sometimes you try something you realize that's not that's not the way I could shoot and then like I said then I start you with Matt and match us like should one bag all right here we go. Let's go this. Ns in that. That's how I better okay But but a raise their own little techniques don't be afraid try those techniques and In in realized that some of them you're gonNA fail miserably in some dot. Oh my God that was awesome in the light will click okay so One more question on this one Is it practical? They bring a spotting scope and ocular something like this absolutely mandatory well not mandatory but yes that that is something in. You'll notice America where I read it but it was. It was somebody was mentioning. It was like a newer shooter showing up. It was like man. I never realized how much time you know. The top shooter spend looking through binoculars looking through binoculars. Spotting scopes are very challenging on. Your is still kind of look through that one. One thing I recommend a nice twelve or fifteen tower Bill everything you do in. Just sit there and look and look Tom through there. Okay good to know all right one more questions two questions and on done on time here so going back to the conversation Do you ever suggest people who don't have a long range to practice that like? Maybe they've got one hundred yards. Twenty five yards. Yeah I you know you. There are target sets out there like little dots and little things like that. You can work on speed and Barricades Whatnot A. Does become a challenge is only so much you can do it. Two to three hundred dollars now that being said I know guys like the Amu. They regularly practiced like two and three hundred yards like it's very challenging for them to get out on you know thousand twelve hundred yard range as you'd think the Mu that have all but they they really go so it's not impossible to do it but it does become a challenge because the a lot of stuff like we talked about earlier. The rifles of extremely accurate right. I mean there's it that's what I was saying to these stages most of the time with not be that much of a challenge given a lot of time you can sit and really see the winds doing and all that stuff but there's only so much wind practiser in get Shooting and how that bullet drops and what's going on. And what the little the little moon you're GonNa have in your rifle. How much of an angular difference that really makes down? Ray DREITZER GONNA move the bullets so far one hundred or two hundred yards But you know how much abuse at range but that being said the things you can do. I mean frankly in your backyard. If you have have the ability you know you can put a little piece of steel or a little whatever. Build a little barricade that getting onto the barricade and getting done quickly peak in a very important I knew like click story like one of my first couple of matches. You know I I got up there and like a lot of guy as it is not getting through the stage right like not able to build position quickly and not be stabled in my position. Of course they get home. Like colossal low is much to four wake. This'll barricade my backyard and I get on there and I figured out the position I need to be on Roxy. I'm like I'm going to go to this next matching on crushing souls here comes right and and I get out there and added the rifle is targeting steady on target. But then I gotta move right in what I had practiced wise. I had put my rifle up on that position and then I sat there tonight. Rack that bowl hundred times and I was so steady but the trick was Maybe it wasn't a steady on that I shop at certainly by that number. Twenty through forty of my dry fires. I was super super stunt because I took it out that position but I hadn't figured out at that point how to get into that position very quickly so then after that match what I started doing. My training sessions was. I only go up and I would never unless I was really just ricky. You're trying to you know like is this a little better than that but I only shoot one or two shots. Many one position that I would move. Because they're thing is what's going to happen is you're not gonNA shoot a lot in any one position he's GonNa shoot a lot of positions only a couple of shots. You have to move in that type of a stage so that is one thing you can't practice at a range closest twenty yards in your backyard is getting into position. How does that rifle need to set? How do I need to hold the bag? How do I need to move that baggage from this position in this next tradition? Get behind the rifle and be steady quickly. And that's what those guys doing. The top are doing very fast and that can be done literally in your living room. Okay thank you all right so one last question might I asked everybody. What is something that you wish people would stop doing immediately? I'm guilty of it too After a match The off. I'd only hit two more shots. I would've won A. We're all guilty of doing that. So that's as much as I need to stop it because guess what everybody's thinking the same thing if if everybody would only hit to this shot if I hadn't tanked that one stage hold on so it's Kinda like one of those like like you're the only one that had a bad state you know that feeling in and I gotTa Stop Blaming. You know. I'd only done this. I would have been better like no. That's what everybody that's why everybody you're shooting or whatever at that position 'cause they shot that stuff so your take accountability for what you've done than where you finished You know not the easiest tank that one St. We all take the Wednesdays ago. If I hadn't done that you know I would`ve. I would've been here on that. Song I've been really trying myself As guilty or more guilty than anybody of driving home. If I hadn't done that I really. I really feel better than I did. No you didn't. You didn't shoot better than you do. Shot right where you did because the same guy that finished next year he did the same thing. And the guys who didn't did it in the guys who did worst or below you. That's that's how it happened. Mike this has been a pleasure talking to you if anybody wants to get a hold of you is her social media platforms or some weighed like you want to put your name out there. If someone's volley yeah Alpha missions parachuting team on facebook page. You have the air you can kind of say follow Follow his stare like that page in Asia. Give updates on what's going on with the matches and whatnot. Certainly if you tag into any of that stuff certainly every breath questions ammunition questions in order to insert needles question for you guys do to help out like I said just shooting match will be around all right. Well thank you very much. It's been a pleasure talking to you all right. Take care all right. Let's talk about some key takeaways from this interview with Mike Keenan. What'd you think? I learned a lot out of this one. Hope did to be sure to come by the website everyday marksman dot co and drop a comment on this episode. And let Mike and Myself. No what you took away now for me. I think it was three really big piece of information here. I WANNA walk away from number one. Is that you really should not be concerned with. Not having the right gear now might pointed out early on the episode that if you shut up with a rifle that is correctly zero. And you know you're zero and you know your data your ballistic data. You know how to find drops. People will help you with the rest. You don't have the right bag. You don't have a spotting SCOPE. You don't help innocuous you don't have the Bio pod. People will go out of their way to help you out. If you show that you're interested and you WANNA put in that little bit of extra effort. So there's a huge element of sportsmanship. There and Mike pointed out that P. R. S. has some of the best sportsmanship. He's ever come across with an any of the shooting sports that he's competed and he's competed in a lot of them. So I think that was a really really big one and I want to make sure people know that it's more important feet is to get out there and go do it than to worry about. Having the perfect thing to start off with now would that he did say that. This is not a poor man's sport so as not that you need to go have a six thousand dollar rifle but you need to have something that's GonNa enable you to have fun so showing out with a four to five hundred dollar Walmart special and the cheapest glassy hit on it probably not going to work out for you Because it's not going to track. Well it's not going to have a very accurate measurements and the radical and it's just going to hold you back more and you may walk away more frustrated than happy all right now. Let's talk about some hardware takeaways. I got out of this. I think Mike had a really good discussion about picking the right cartridge now me. I'm three await nerd. I'm fully plenty of walking into this shooting for a good long time. But that said if you are starting from scratch. I thought Mike Advice about picking was really good advice now here. Let's let's play back soon. So first and foremost to ask yourself. Are you gonNA reload or not if you're not you now have limited yourself to a couple of cartridges in my mind and on those? I would probably go with the six treat more again. Just just because it's it's not just can't wear in Pierre. S So there. You have it if you're planning on using factory loaded. Mo which. I will probably do for quite a long time. Then pick something that's a six point five creed more six milk create more because already really good match loaded ammo out for that cartridge if you're planning on going with reloading your own. Mo as a lot of the pros do and you should do. What suits your fancy right now with the Karcher discussion? I think there was another element there which had to do with law. Steve versus the B C or ballistic coefficient. Let's listen to that one of the basic things. We kinda ideas from about zero to five hundred yards. Speed tends to be a little bit more important than BC and then from five hundred or six hundred thousand. Abc's tends to be a little bit. More important could still from zero to five hundred yards really much more concerned about how that bullet is retaining velocity. That's our flatter trajectory but from five hundred yards and beyond now or get more concerned with that ballistic coefficient. Not Saying you have to pick one or the other because really we're looking at compromises all around so it comes down to knowing your dope from both ends of how it's going to do from speed as well as the and having the right drops for you. I would argue. It's probably more important to just really know your ballistic data and Mike gave the example of people who actually have zones ballistic data because as the bullet slows down the BBC will decrease and it gets less efficient so they have different zones from zero to six hundred yards is zone one from six hundred plus zone to and they have slightly different. Trud ballistic data so interesting way to handle it now. Something else the him up in this interview I thought was a good takeaway with just some of the ancillary gear and the number one thing. He recommended was a good bag. He was big advocate of the Armageddon Gear. Game Changer which I know from reading precision rifle blogs that that is the most popular bag in this series as well as the. We bad fortune cookie. I'll leave links. Those both in the show notes as well as one. I'm interested in which is Our view on the future because I want to give it a test. Run myself okay. I think that's probably good for the major takeaways. I hope you enjoyed this interview and make sure you come by the website. Now here is one key call to action. I have you guys. The everyday marksman is fully funded by our listeners and our readers so which means we don't accept sponsorships or anything like that. We don't take money to sell you ads. Would I do rely on is either you guys clicking on links provide for affiliate sales or you directly contribute to the site. So I am asking if you really enjoy what you're getting from the marksman goto everyday marksman dot co Ford Slash support and for the cost of box of M. Oh you can help me. Keep producing more interviews articles more reviews and all the great stuff. You guys are interested in going art. That is it for me today. Guys I hope you have a fantastic weekend. Oh we'll catch you next time. This is Sonny

Rangers US Npr Mike archery BBC P. R. S. National Rifle League rl Mpa Pierre Claes Moore US Naval Academy Mike Keenan NPA Dortmund BC officer
10 Trivia Questions on Cities

Trivia With Budds

12:30 min | 2 years ago

10 Trivia Questions on Cities

"It's ten trivia questions on cities. My friend John may have visited this is trivia would buds. And welcome to another episode of the trivia with buds podcast. I'm your host Ryan buds. Thanks for checking out my show on trivia, today's episode is all about cities that I friend John. How has visited now you may have remembered John's name before on the podcast because he wrote me, a big packet of questions about three or four months ago for me to answer since I never had to play live trivia nights myself. I was complaining about it one night, and he comes to a lot of my trivia nights, and he said, hey, I made this for you and I actually never went through all the rounds in this packet. So I was looking for an idea for an episode today. And I said, let's record this one on cities, John has visited name the city from the clue. So these are specific to, to his he's been, but maybe places you have been as well. Some are worldly in some are just in the US, but you'll have heard of all of these hope good weekend. It's a late Sunday night. I record this one. Just got done watching the movie tag with Jon Hamm, and Jeremy Renner, and Helms and Hannibal births and Nick. I don't know. His name from new girl, Nick from new girl. I don't think that's his real name. But really funny movie thought it was good and entertaining, and very unique, and kind of like weird at some parts like the writing was kind of weird, but definitely entertaining and fun if you're looking for something goofy to watch like on a hundred degree Sunday night. It is one hundred degrees. And if you go outside, it's like smoldering even at nighttime. So we're getting ready for this huge heat wave in California, and tomorrow, I think is going to be a nice sprinkler day, if you wanna go over to our house and run around the sprinkler, we'll be doing that, and I'll be recording third up sewed of the daddy daughter buds family podcast with my daughter, Annabel. So if you wanna see episode two that one will go up tomorrow, on my Facebook page Facebook dot com slash Ryan buds, Fianna, check that out, and we'll be recording. Third one tomorrow to put up next Monday, get ready for some big travel plans be headed up north to San Francisco. The we at twenty second and twenty. Third of June for cluster fest comedy, central's cluster fest. If you're gonna be up in that area. Let me know would love to meet up and shoot. The breeze and have a drink with the over some trivia questions if you want to be on the show, and I'm coming to your city. Let me know. We could set something up, though, be kinda cool to have you on location on the podcast also down in Chattanooga can California Chattanooga. Tennessee fourth of July weekend. Doing a show at a place called southside social on Sunday, July seventh. Disney marvel Star Wars trivia tickets available at the top of the banner on my website, right at the top at trivia with buds dot com. So lots of fun stuff coming up, and I will be in Chicago October nineteenth for that weekend. I don't know exactly where I'll be at yet, but I will be doing a show on the nineteenth and visiting some family and things. So that's what's going on in my world. If you wanna see all my trivia locations in southern California that you can play it seventeen different places between bingo, and trivia, go to trivial buds dot. Com and click on locations. Bunch new ones popping up the newest being brew cakes in Redlands California, from seven to nine on Tuesdays starting Tuesday, June twenty fifth so lots of cool stuff there on the website go and check it out. If you do the podcast hit subscribed to get new episodes in your device every day and leave an itunes review, if you dig this show, some more people can find out about it. That'd be very cool, you and a special thanks to John bow who wrote these questions for today's episode yellow has been making some cool buttons for me. He's got one of those button pressing machines and he can make little small one inch ones and a little bit bigger two and a quarter inch sized buttons, and he's printing. A new batch of one hundred trivia with buds logo. It's the blue background with the white and red logo. And if you want one of those, let me know she lean Email. Ryan buds, g mail dot com. You can also get one as part of the new patriotic package, the whole month of June. If you join the five dollar tier or more you get assigned shark NATO, headshot of me missing a leg from the movie, shark NATO. I'll sign it just. To you just just special for you. And I'll draw a little shark NATO on there. Like I liked to do, and I will send you a sticker and two buttons. So if you want to join in and get those special perks just for the month of June, go to patriot dot com slash trivial buds, and check it out our guys that's enough announcement. So we're gonna jump into these ten questions on cities, my friend. John has visited here we go. All right. John said in the instructions name the city from the clue. So I'll give you the clue and you're coming up with the city question. Number one, this city in Idaho may or may not have been named for a city in Russia question. Questionable one this city in Idaho may or may not have been named for a city in Russia. What do you think question? Number one. Questionable to the beefy twos. And REM came from this Greek sounding city in Georgia number two, the B fifty twos and REM came from this Greek sounding city in Georgia. Question. Number three, Mark Twain, then known as Samuel Clemens was born in this city in Missouri. That was named after a state, number three, Mark Twain, then known as Samuel Clemens was born in this city in Missouri. That was named after a state. Question number four. Davy Crockett, and John bowel were two of the casualties emission in this city question before Davy Crockett. And John bowel or two of the casualties in a mission in this city number four. Questionable five in this town. I was just standing there when a girl my Lord in a flatbed Ford was slowing down to take a look at me. I'm guessing those are Lear IX to something I don't know this reference, but maybe you do number five in this town, I was just standing there when a girl my Lord in a flatbed Ford was slowing down to take a look at me. What town is that number five. Number six this city in South Dakota has a ten day motorcycle rally every year at the beginning of August number six whereas that motorcycle rally in South Dakota number six. Question for seven buddy, Holly was born in this Texas city, which is also home to Texas Tech university number seven what is home to Texas Tech university, and buddy, Holly's birthplace. Flesh number eight this city in Maryland. Is home to the US naval academy number eight. This city in Maryland. Is home to the US naval academy. Two more questions in this quiz. For today about cities, my friend John his visited number nine. This Ohio city is home to the rock and Roll Hall of fame. Where's the rock and Roll Hall of fame? And number ten this Nebraska city hosts the college baseball World Series every year. Number ten this Nebraska city host the college baseball World Series every year. Everybody. Those are the questions for cities. John has visited let's see if you could figure out the answers to all those clues and just a second. We are back with the answers to these city related trivia, questions. Let's see how many of these, you got right out of ten I would not have done. Well, I think I would have got three out of ten number one this city in Idaho may or may not have been named for a city in Russia. The answer is Moscow Moscow, Idaho. Never been there. Number two. The beef REM came from this Greek sounding city in Georgia. The answer was Athens number to Athens. Georgia is where those two bands happened to be from. I did not know the beef twos or from Georgia, number three, Mark Twain, then known as Samuel Clemens was born in this city in Missouri. That was named after a state that would be Florida. Florida, Missouri, never heard of that, either. I am not very well traveled number four. Davy Crockett, and John Bell. Which is Quincy. The name of the guy who wrote these questions or two the casualties emission in this city. It was San Antonio, Texas. Number four, San Antonio, Texas number five in this town. I was just standing there when a girl. My Lord in a flatbed Ford was slowing down to take a look at me. Winslow era. Zona Winslow era. Zona number six. This city and South Dakota has attended motorcycle rally every year at the beginning of August. I did know that one Sturgis number six they used to do a WCW wrestling, pay per view called spring stampede was, what was it was something that was motorcycle related? And there were bunch of motorcycles there. And sometimes the wrestlers would come out on motorcycles number seven, buddy, Holly was born in this Texas city, which is also home to Texas Tech university. Lubbock Lubbock, Texas. L U CK number eight. This city in Maryland. Is home to the US naval academy. Also would have got that one because it's James Franco movie Annapolis. An apples Maryland, and my cousins McConnell's used to live pretty close to their number nine. This Ojo city is home to the rock and Roll Hall of fame Cleveland. I would have got that one to Cleveland Ohio. Cleveland rocks, according to the drew Carey theme song, and number ten this nebr-. City host the college baseball World Series, every year, Omaha, Omaha Nebraska, which is also no stranger to the band three eleven I think they are from around that area. Maybe Omaha specifically guys, those are the answers to the city's John has visited, John, thanks for those questions and for enlightening everybody with your travels, very good stuff serve, and thanks for making those buttons if you're listening, if you want one of those trivial buds buttons to put on your purse like you're my mom, and I'm a little league player. You can get one of those by just sending me a message. Ryan buds gmaiLcom. I also kind of include them, and a lot of packages that I mail people who win stuff on the show. So if you win something, you're bound to get some stickers and some of those buttons, I have some new Princess laya stickers to me dressed, as Princess Leia that I got made through sticker meal for a Star Wars event. I just did. So if you're into that kind of thing if you like like a guy that. May dressed as Princess Leia, for some reason as a sticker, I got your hookup. It's time for the question of the day brought to you by funky monkey designs incorporated, and sandy California for all your varsity jacket printing, and embroidery needs, go check them out, FM designs, Inc dot com. Today's question of the day, of course, is about cities because that's what the episode was about. And this is a question about a California City, California city is the almond capital of the world. If you know, the answer that question, tweet me or answer, at Ryan buds on Twitter at Ryan, buds on Instagram in DM could slide into my DM's. I think that's what people say and you can Email me Ryan buds, g Bill dot com. If you are chosen and have the correct answer from quick raffle of people who send me the answer. You will get a price to you in the mail so be on the lookout for that. If you know that answer few want to support this show, go to patriot dot com slash trivia with buds and see all the cool stuff. We have going on over there and special thanks to all my. I patriot. Subscribers for helping me do this fun treaty hosting job, fulltime and doing this show every single day. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks for telling a friend and we'll see tomorrow. For more trivia with buds. Cheers.

John Ryan buds Texas California Mark Twain Georgia California City US naval academy Idaho Davy Crockett Maryland South Dakota Texas Tech university Missouri college baseball Zona Winslow John bowel Nebraska Russia
NPR News: 07-12-2020 4AM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 11 months ago

NPR News: 07-12-2020 4AM ET

"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Louise Schiavone. Japanese authorities are demanding tough prevention measures amid a coronavirus outbreak at two US military bases on Okinawa. More than sixty marines have been diagnosed with Kobe nineteen since July seventh officials on Okinawa say US military officials have told them the bases are now in lockdown. Researchers at Johns Hopkins University report there have been three point two million covid nineteen cases in the United States with almost one hundred thirty five thousand deaths. Starting Monday, nearly all Louisiana residents will be required to wear face masks and Public Paul Brown of member station W. R. K. F. Reports the announcement from Governor John. Bel Edwards comes a day after the state recorded its highest single-day total of new coronavirus cases until now the Democratic Edwards had let local leaders make their own decisions about masks, and he supported mask mandates in New Orleans Baton Rouge and Shreveport, but Republican officials, and some of the state's new hot spots, including Lafayette and Lake Charles have openly opposed the policy. So Edwards stepped in, and if you don't like the mandate, then don't like it, but were you mask anyway? It's the right thing to do. It's essential thing to do. Edwards is also shutting down the state's bars, which have been the site of dozens of outbreaks and accounted for hundreds of cases since they reopened in the middle of June for NPR news I'm Paul Braun in Baton Rouge the US census. Bureau says it can no longer meet the currently. Go deadlines for reporting the results of the twenty twenty cents NPR's hunting. Hunting Wong. Explains Federal Law Requires a Census Bureau to report the latest population counts for each state to the president by the end of December. More detailed data used to reach all voting districts are due to the states by the end of March two, thousand, twenty one, but the bureau is Associate Director for the count Alfons no says. The pandemic has forced to bureau to push back its plans. We are half. The window of being able to get those college by those days despite back in April the bureau. Ask Congress to pass four month extensions for those deadlines. Meanwhile, the bureau says it plans to keep collecting census responses online over the phone, and through the mail until the end of October on Zuluaga NPR News New York. President trump is not apologizing for commuting the sentence of former campaign aide, political confidante Roger Stone Stone was charged with lying to Congress obstruction and witness tampering. He went to trial and was convicted. Trump told reporters. was treated. Horribly Roger Stone recruited very unfairly. Roger Stone was brought into this switch on this. Political, witch hunt and the Muller. Scam scam because it's been proven falls. The White House said they were worried. Stone might contract coronavirus in prison. This is NPR. At this stage in the election year was a foregone conclusion, but in the twice postponed presidential primary vote in Louisiana. There are no surprise. Winners president trump face no serious challenge. He won the state GOP presidential primary ballot on the Democratic side. There were fourteen contenders and all former vice president Joe Biden took his party's victory in Louisiana. Voting had been postponed due to the pandemic seven time Nascar series champion Jimmy Johnson will be back in the driver's seat this afternoon after missing last week's race because he tested positive for Corona Virus Greg. To negative corona virus tests have cleared the way for Jimmy Johnson to race in the four hundred. Mile Cup race at Kentucky speedway Johnson says he was a symptomatic before last weekend, and felt anger with the results, then anger related to the pandemic through me, being positive through me missing a race to me, not being with my team. The fear of my children's is I mean it's just if you're. Heading everywhere before missing last week's race, at Indianapolis Johnson, made six, hundred, sixty, three consecutive starts the fifth Boston series history for NPR news I'm Gregg. Lieutenant J G Madeline swaggie US Naval Academy class of two thousand seventeen has become the US Navy's first black female tactical aircraft pilot swivel of Burke, Virginia has completed naval flight. School is now due to receive the traditional wings of gold. She'll be flying with the red hawks of training. Squadron Twenty one in Texas. I'm Louise Schiavone NPR news Washington.

NPR Roger Stone Stone Associate Director Bel Edwards US NPR president Louisiana Louise Schiavone trump Baton Rouge Jimmy Johnson Washington Congress Okinawa Johns Hopkins University US Naval Academy US Navy Lieutenant J G Madeline Kobe
NPR News: 07-13-2020 9AM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 11 months ago

NPR News: 07-13-2020 9AM ET

"Live from NPR news I'm Korva Coleman. After a weekend of record, high new corona virus cases in Florida case counts are on the rise in many states as NPR's Alison Aubrey reports. The death toll is increasing to. The recent surge in cases has been led by younger people who are much less likely to die from the virus, but what we're seeing now is what many experts including former FDA commissioner. Scott gottlieb anticipate it eventually it spreads into the wider community. Inevitably, what happens is that the younger people go out and get infected because they're not taking those cautious, it's going to get back into a more vulnerable population. That's what we're seeing right now. You're seeing rising cases in nursing homes so tragically. We're going to see start to rise, and that's why I said two to three. Three weeks until you see us, get back above it. Thousand experts say it's critical to test and isolate infected people, and for everyone to do their part to social distance and wear a mask Alice Aubrey NPR news Florida. Health officials reported nearly fifteen thousand three hundred new cases of the virus Sunday, that is the largest number of daily cases reported in any state, since the pandemic began its greater than the number of daily cases reported by new. York at its peak in April the mayor of Tallahassee John Daly says. His staff is tracking the pandemic in Florida's capital. While we are trying to take a balance between keeping everybody safe, which is first and foremost our our number, one priority, but also trying to open up our restaurants and a retail a little bit. We take it day by day but nonetheless we're not afraid to take court positions where we need to Johns Hopkins. University reports three point. Three million people in the US have been infected with the virus president. Trump is criticizing a privately built border wall project in south Texas as NPR's. Joel rose reports the stretch of wall near the Rio Grande show signs of erosion a few months after being built. President. Trump took to twitter to complain that the privately built border wall was quote on done to make me look bad. Even though the wall was built after a months-long campaign by the president's supporters, a group calling itself we build the wall raised more than twenty five million dollars Congress refused to fund trump's demands for a border wall. The three mile section stands much closer to the Rio. Grande than the government ordinarily places border barriers, propublica and the Texas Tribune reported this week. Week that erosion of the riverbank is threatening the walls integrity. It was built by Fisher. Industries, which has since one a border wall contract from the federal government worth more than a billion dollars. Joel rose NPR news presidential candidate. Joe Biden won the Democratic primary election in Puerto Rico on Sunday Puerto Rico's primary election was scheduled for March, but officials delayed it because of the pandemic. Puerto Ricans are US citizens, but they cannot vote for president in the general election in November. This is NPR. A federal appeals court has ruled at federal death row inmate Daniel Lee can be put to death today in Indiana. He was convicted of murdering three people including an eight-year-old girl in Nineteen ninety-six. However, the family of the victims has argued against today's execution. They say they'll be put at risk of contracting the corona virus if they traveled to see the execution. US Navy says at least seventeen sailors and four civilians were injured after an explosion on a ship at naval base. San Diego from member station K. P. B. S. Matt Hoffman reports. A, Navy spokesperson says the fire started just after eight thirty Sunday morning, while a hundred and sixty sailors were on this ship, thick plumes of smoke from USS, Bonham Rashard poured into clear skies and covered parts of naval, base, San Diego and San Diego Bay, the amphibious assault ship was undergoing maintenance and therefore not have any aircraft on board federal fire crews, local agencies and other navy ships responded to the scene. Some sailors and civilians were taken to the hospital and. And treated for non life, threatening injuries, navy officials say the rest of the crew was evacuated from the ship, and is accounted for for NPR news I'm Matt. Hoffman in San Diego the US Navy has announced that its first black female tactical aircraft pilot has completed naval flight school. The Naval Air Training Command says later this month Lieutenant J G. Madeline Swagger will receive the flight officer insignia, known as wings of gold swagger graduated from the US Naval Academy in 2017. I'm KORVA COLEMAN NPR news.

NPR president Florida Trump US Navy Alice Aubrey NPR NPR Rio Grande Joel rose San Diego US Naval Academy Puerto Ricans naval base Scott gottlieb US Korva Coleman FDA Alison Aubrey San Diego Bay K. P. B. S. Matt Hoffman
#416 Jake Zweig

First Class Fatherhood

31:46 min | 8 months ago

#416 Jake Zweig

"Now the lace. Welcome to I glass fatherhood. Welcome everybody to be sold four, hundred, sixteen to the podcast. I am happy to be here with you. Thank you for stopping by if this is your first time listening to a podcast please overnight bag net subscribe button. Do not want to miss the action coming your way right here on first place fatherhood. All right. As it is time for another frogman Friday edition of First-class Fatherhood today former Navy Seal Jake swig joins me on the podcast Jake is currently the director of player development at the University of Illinois under coach. Lovey Smith Jake earned a masters of business degree at the University of Michigan and Bachelor of Science from the US Naval Academy. He went onto Bud's where he was named the leader of class to seventeen. He served with the elite United States Navy seal teams with seal team eight eventually attaining the rank of Lieutenant J. CO hosted the Discovery Channel Series titled Dude You screwed which pitted special forces, veterans and survivalists in a competition to survive the world's harshest environments. Jake defied the freezing peak of Iceland mountain as well as the scorching. Heat of a desert in Africa, he also competed in the history channel's top shot. Jake is a survivor and inspiring speaker a hero and I am honored to have on the podcast today. Jake's rig will be here with me and just a few minutes. So please stick around for the interview and today's conversation with Jake's rig was recorded on video and is available for you guys to watch them on Youtube channels. Watch the conversation between myself and the navy seal over and hit me with a subscribe on Youtube First Fatherhood the. Link is in the description of today's podcast episode. All right. Now, I've got to give a hats appear to another frogman travis lively for recommending Jake for the podcast here. If you missed my interview with Travis lively please flip it back to episode three ninety seven and take a listen travis was the star of the documentary buds class two, thirty four, which was seen by millions of people and really the Navy seals on the map it really gave regular citizens there I peek inside the military's most difficult training program on the planet. and. If you enjoy my interviews with the Navy Seals, some of the other Navy Seal Das- that I've had the honor of interviewing on the podcast here include Jaakko willink Marcus Latrell Roy Denver Robbo Neil and even medal of honor recipients at buyers, Michael Thornton, and Bob. Carey. All of these episodes are available in the archives of the podcast and ready for you to listen to at your convenience alright and follow me on Instagram at the school as the find out who will be joining me here next week on the podcast including the return of UFC hall of Famer Tito Ortiz was running for city council. In his hometown of Huntington Beach. Don't miss out on that one. If you guys are enjoying the show, please consider hitting me with a rating and review on I tunes or spotify or wherever it is that you enjoy listening to the show and as always guys please help me spread the word about this podcast every father. Eh, your contact list. Let them know about the show to see is celebrating fatherhood and Family Life Fatherhood rocks, family values rule, and every day is father's Day right here with me and I'm GonNa be right back with former navy seal Jake Swig. Allegation you're listening to first glance fatherhood. Today's episode is being brought to you by Manscaping Dad's twenty. Twenty has been a year of things happening that a completely out of your control but there is one thing that you can control and that is shaving that area that made you a dad in the first place my sponsors over manscaping dot com or remind you to do. So the MANSCAPING lawnmower three point zero is a premier electric trimmer that waterproof would advance skin safe technology. So you never have to worry about scratching those love spuds while giving yourself a smooth shave the lawnmower three point zero is included in the perfect package three point Oh. And for a limited time when you order the perfect package kit, you gotta get two free gifts to shed travel bag and the man's scape anti Chafe, boxer briefs, and let me tell you something right now guys the Anti Chafing Cooling boxer briefs of the best pair draws I've ever put on. So what are you waiting for visit manscaping dot com use my Promo Code Father You can save twenty percents off your order plus free shipping. That's twenty percents off your order plus get free shipping at manscaping dot com use the Promo Code father and get rid of those short hairs and your short pants today. Joining me now first class Father Jake swig welcome to First-class Fatherhood. Thank you Alex I'm not sure a first class father I'm the first one to tell you I only give advice to something that I've been through and done and I got young kids I've got a nine year old seven old and a six year old. So for me like Israel infancy I tell everybody I went out and got one of the world's Best Dad's in my opinion to help mentor me so that my kids wouldn't be raised like I was raised Is probably one of the most influential things I've done in my life as far as being a father. Like I had a crazy thing happened with Mike. My son was probably. Four and At Him and he was cowering in the bed and I said I turned into my dad you know quick spank quick to yell and I had this meeting coming up with this very, very awesome dad that I know and I just asked a man I said, hey s I know I could you could help me in a thousand different ways but right now. I got a drunk truck driving Father Dad, that is my father figure in I can't raise my kids like I was raised and said, the first thing he said is no spanking you know and I came home. My wife is countries all get out and ever since then like the bottom two kids really haven't been spanked when you're little little like two three A. Little. Bit like always kid he don't get spanked at all like they're in those switches there ain't no belts. There's nothing like that long conversations repeated conversations you know stuff that's going to help him make better decisions when he's grown up instead of being angry violent guy like me. Yeah well said Jake and I was one of the reasons that had this podcast, a collaboration of a lot of DADS giving advice given their wisdom helping to share their experience because there's really not a lot of things like this four dads out there when you look at the podcast for parenting it heavily heavily. Leaning towards all the MOMS. There's plenty of resources for MOMS out there not as much afford. Dad's we just go on our experience that we've had, and if that's been a bad one, then the cycle continues also. Don't give. I. Didn't have a bad experience. I just got raised by a savage to be a savage. And it has its time and place right in the navy seals it was a good deal but even there I was a little over the top as far as savagery goes right I'm raising my kids to be CEO's you know if you ask my kids right now where they're going to college, it's going to be the same astronaut all three of Harvard staying every West Point or Yale theory that's GonNa tell you every time. We got to the big five that we stay in the morning I'm to be a leader, be a superstar be as wig. My older son wanted to be a kid. So he put an automobile kid and have fun, and then we're always going to care for our people. So. Those are the Big Five right now we've got to grow with a nine year old. We'll get the big twelve based on kind of some Douglas Alexander Zimbabwe stuff. From Dot. His Dad is that gave him kind of twelve, ten, twelve principles live by so. But. Yeah I. Tell everybody like all care about his mom's not helicopter parent parenting their kids man like. Thought about kind of what I wanted to be my message on this thing, he's like you've got educators I. Let my kids fall down all the time. You know my one was climbing a tree the other day mom my wife was like getting ready to SAS on. Let him fall from seven feet. So he understands he'll get hurt when he's at twenty feet. You know so many parents want to run over there and cash their kids. I'm like look you can't and all these are my kids like my youngest kid he don't tell the gentleman he chatted jump off the top bunk. And do a front flip onto the bottom bed on. We got three beds and rooms Z. which to jump off one bunk bed into the twin size bed and where do you think he landed Alex? Click. Swear on the floor. Because he has seen his older brother do it. So I, you gotTa let them fall. You gotTa let them fail. Feeling right now is a a lost art in America we at. J. One of things I talk about on the show here is like when I was a kid, we played a lot of street ball and we were we played football and there was no parents no referees no coaches nobody watching over us. We we decided who was on what team we decided where to end zones were we we saw all the fights that happened on the field and it's like our kids are losing that that that Problem Salvi. Skill set because we put them in sports at such a young age at four years old already in organized sports and I think we're doing a disservice by doing that. Yeah you know here's what I'm GONNA say. A it comes back to now the Internet has made everybody's problems. Your problems correct so so. To gets kidnapped in San Antonio and I'm in you know Wisconsin Racine. Wisconsin Mocatta let my kid go outside. Well, I know this when I was in San Antonio McKee isn't going anywhere by themselves because kids get kidnapped to San Antonio all the time. When I lived in Washington state, someone tried to abduct me as an eighth grader. But I spent the first you know six seven years of my life from six in when I moved to silicon at six years old. So the probably about twelve. I go anywhere I wanted to town on my bike and so like Abbie gone all day. So exactly what you're saying like, where are you going to meet up who you're gonNA play who's going to be there have now parents always knew where I was at. But not tell the story I was seven years old I had a Bo an engine and I could go from the left side to the trestle all the way to the Masonic Lodge? That was where my dad could see me in the water and I could go one mile out and so I drive around the puget sound in my boat. I thought I was saying pirate you know that's the kind of stuff that like I told my wife, we move out his neighbor, but we live in 'cause we live in a nice neighborhood. But. I can't semi my kids outside the play because what are they going to go in the backyard? What are what are they doing a backyard? There's not a lot of activities for. Whereas in my house is in Washington state ahead at Creek had wrote climb. I. Had a Fort That my dad bill to me that I- sandbagged in I had bullet. Chain links of machine gun bullets in the air, and you know move sandbags I'm fighting Guadalcanal where it was. But. That's was missing. You know and the simple stuff like out of trees and cracked got my kids crash their bikes over my my youngest son. His bike at a million miles now uncontrolled. He go crashing a million miles now. My wife was golly you know she used to it now but I I laugh at people try to Maki's Hey, what are you doing? Well he just fell. That's fine I'm is dead. You'll be okay. Oh. Okay like look man he only person picking him up after crashes himself unless he really hurt you know. I had kicked really her Kia split his head open but you got some stitches as what happened. She split your head kissed it so. Yeah. Definitely Jagan and backing it up just a little bit here. How old were you when you became a dad and had to becoming a father Kinda change your perspective on life. Super interesting question I didn't become a dad's I was forty so. We tried to me and my wife tried for about five years. They have the kid always struggle a little bit and then God blesses I say prayers to God every day I. Tell them thank you. I wasn't necessarily super subservient to God before. But I told him, you know I'll be very reverend to you the rest of my life if you can just bless me with a kid so I was forty years old You know. It changed my perspective on people having kids young. I mean I got a buddy all five his kids out of the house already, and here I am with a five year old in the house The other thing is I think for a it was probably the right time to have a kid. Because I'm in a place now in my life where I don't have no problem, quit my job don't have no problem walking away from everything to make sure that I raised three superstars life. So. for me it was right time but you know we got a couple of guys on the team with kids and I'm like was the best blessing in the world. The thing that brings me the most joy in life is when I see a pregnant woman. I'm Maddie having a baby. So awesome. So the simple things man. Yeah one of the things I focus on the show they're talking about women I focus a lot on the fatherless crisis that we have going on in our country too many kids are growing up without a father or father figure in their life and is leading to real devastating results in our society I. Know You're there with the football program in Illinois like what do you see the difference you have kids on the? Team that grew up without a father and finding a lot of kids you sports to kind of find that father role model some use the military as well. But you see a difference in the kids that are coming in. That had no father as opposed to the ones that came in with two parent family structure absolute I a person raised by women acts like women person raise like a man acts like a man. Flat out. Simple stuff right being conniving and caddy not seen. All women are conniving and caddy, but they handle their problems differently because they can't go to. Brute Force. Men Prefer handle their problems brute force. So you got somebody just trying to talk their way out of stuff or give excuses not as the you know in my house I mean I I'm like yesterday I was like seventh grade I have been reaching across the table for stuff. Instead ask them my parents to pass it to me I remember Table to grab the butter my dad stuck a fork in my hand. It wasn't talking there wasn't no. No but that was managed man stuff right there Bam. And in my head was bleeding, he pulled a fork out heating. Say No. But I know this I didn't reach a table over again. Yeah I, would imagine not. Yeah. No definitely and I wanted to ask you about because right now obviously, the corona virus I shifted everything especially in the sports world here what has been like the morality of the of the kids on the team like A virus affected of the players as they approached the season especially, the freshman kids coming in the seniors who which there last year I got to be a crazy experience for these guys are how has it been affecting them? I'll honest with you I don't think it affects us that much right like. We're ready to go. Got told everybody I had him hey, coach hammer early right. Everybody got the same circumstances if you show up and get killed is your fault. So we'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA go at it like today we're GonNa prepare today like tomorrow's the Super Bowl every day so that we have a chance when we go into in the battle with these other teams, you know as it, that's all it really is so We're ready to go. I mean we we got a solid team. We've got a kind of a veteran team. At this point. We've had a young team for the last three years, but you know the good thing is why none of them were seniors right now they is their choice to leave. Because this year is voided by the NCAA. So they're allowed to come back next year if they want to. So we'll see what happens. You know we got our first game tomorrow to be good. Yeah, very. All, right. You ready to get your side hustle on either driving with Uber for over five years now, and it is a phenomenal way to bring in some extra income for your family and if you've ever considered drying Uber, why not take advantage of their sign up bonus by using my promo. Code Nine Nine N Nine K I'm also going to Drop Lincoln the description of today's podcast episode just tap. The Lincoln, it'll bring you right to overdrive or sign up page, and as long as you meet with the terms and conditions, you get a bonus and I get a bonus affair exchanges no crime. So what are you guys waiting for get out there and start making a little side money with over and use my Promo Code Nine N Nine K., and start making some extra income for your family today. Very cool What would you say like as far as like the leadership principles that you learned in the seal team's how did they apply to the football field and to the household as a father? So it's interesting a lot of people think I learned all this massive leadership in the seal teams but I really come my leadership teeth on my ship side Jehovah's ship for two years before I got to go seals. Came out the Naval Academy, a little bit of a vagrant hack collected a large number of the merits there. So they kind of they didn't I won't say they punished me I. I needed it. I went to a shift for two years but I cut my teeth air right? How to really lead people had elite people that don't want to be led how to lead people that don't have a lot of hope in life leading seal team's as easy like if someone tells you hard to be a leader in the seal team's their lines you they sucked because in seal team's it's easy. Everybody's a type A personality. Everybody's a self starter, absolutely the most capable people in the world. Like I can't ask for a better team the lead then self starter. Super Capable, incredibly intelligent. Three quarters of my seal platoon had a college degree right? Not Saying that makes you intelligent or not. I'm just saying like you're leaving the best people in the country. That's easy. Leadership hard leadership is when you got division of you know half the. Half. The people that enlisted because they wanted to the other half got tricked into enlisting I didn't have any future. So they listed in the navy they got lied to in the process. They had a girl in my division with a master's degree and they told her she could be a school teacher in a navy. She was shipping paint in my division. She cried every day. And I said, you know we kind of wasting her towns as a mass shut mashes education and we put her in charge of training and she blossom had another kid on my ship. It had had some alcohol problems and I took him and I he was a really good artists. I'll let him paint everything on our ship that we need painting painted like pitchers and stuff like that, and then I found him out to the waterfront for six months and he came to work every day not drunk happy as all get out when painted all day I got everything I need. mwr Morale Welfare and recreation. I got twenty cans of Haze Gray paint from the aircraft carrier and three hundred basketball's from a destroyer and so. That's why I cut my teeth leadership I I wish. My kids from a leadership perspective will be different. So it's funny because we call being charged WHO's in charge. So. One of the kids got to step up like I who's in charge I'm in charge. So. Then that person in charge of getting to the park leading leading leading the search party for on a bike, we're going on a bike ride. Now, if my oldest son's in charge, he going to try to take to last go around the block right and then when we get back to the House I'm be like great. Did the leader get the most out of the bike ride he rely no. Okay. Then leader got do it again. So, then you know by that time, one of the kids like now my turn, I'm in charge and then we'd go on a real bike ride. So I still a bunch of little stuff like that. So they understand the power of leadership. My oldest son likes to Yell Guy do which I taught him how to do it. So now I'm I'm every time he starts yelling that are you being? Are you being an influence or? Are you influencing him to do what you want him to do or you yelling at. Saddam Yellen Dan. So we better to influence because yellen doesn't work. Okay Dad you know. But what I'm really doing I'm training him but I'm also training the other two because they don't yell as much as he did because he was in early growthy for years. I'm screaming Adam in woman his blood like which you know. So do some repair work they're still yeah I, got four kids myself Jagan. It's been a learning process myself and trying to get all to work in a cohesive unit sometimes it. Quite a bit of patients say that are going into an each kid needs to be disciplined in a different with a little bit of a different finance, a little different style. So it's a lot of learning for myself. As I go through this, my oldest is just in high school now. And adding on that, what would you say are some of the other leadership was? So what are some of the other values that you're hoping to instill in your kids growing up? So this is something interesting I didn't learn read till my Sophomore Year of college I'll tell you the story. So I got a superstar wife. My wife is the best wife in a world. Thank you, Sarah. I love you to death like Like she slaps me. So often because I'm doing something wrong with the kids not being consistent like. So she basically so I didn't learn to read until I was a sophomore in college and I was terrified at my younger son would know how to read. And so I. bought every learning aid in the world hooked on phonics. Preschool prep about everything. And one day I was sitting there he was like. Probably, seven months old and we that's all it plays on TV when they're little they now they listen to watch cartoons but basically, the first four or five years Audrey listening to his preschool crab hooked on Phonics, all of that stuff and so. My my wife I had ordered something and it was like this big box videos and my wife was like, what are you don't want? And I was like look like he he has to be able to read. And she goes Jake, she said, we both have masters degrees from Michigan. Our son's going to be able to read. Don't worry about I started bawling right because you for me. My Dad would always tell me you have to be better than I. Riley. You have to grow up to be far better than I have far superior, and so for me I, don't WanNa say the bars kind of high. But I wanted the Naval Academy. GotTa Michigan Mba and I could read so if this kid can read area no telling what he can do so now it's interesting because He knew his alphabet and probably fifteen different languages and I tell the story like when we came over to Finley Ohio, we had him a Russian tutor. He was pretty much like he could be he could understand all rush. He could do the Russian alphabet he knew everything, and so I tell the story, he was probably eighteen months old and I was like. I kept hearing gibberish coming out of the tablet. Some. Like Hey. So. One day I got his tab when he went to took a nap and I looked and it was all Russian Daniel, the tiger, the whole thing. So my roommate from college is rush. Caught up Bo I say up he's a man I think doing understand Russia. I put him on the phone. So we put put them back on the phone bone. I hear I hear both talking to Russian and then Masan opens up a stove. And I was like damn is do does understand rush. Sedan, bogeyman a phone back he understand he knows. Russia. So it was just kind of right like you trying to compensate for that stuff My older son is named after Douglas. Alexander. Zimba Moulana Volusia some oldest son's name. Zimba Douglas Wig. So that everybody understands I he gets asked for the rest of his life where he get his first name you know he understands the weight that he's carrying. So ladd two years ago. There was an awesome video by mission barbecue about Doug and his story, and my son made it about two minutes in and was balling. And he said Dad I am that man. And I have so much weight to carry now. And I turned it off and I said he ain't ready yet. Right? He was seven six seven at the time and it wasn't nothing gory and it just you know he knows he died so. You know just just about like they gotta be great. Here's great people I think if he says the best they gotTa have gratitude. They gotta be fortunate for where they are. You not just trying to raise three superstars. Three great people my youngest son got a little evil in him and you know he he go Tasmanian Devil in will be somebody up at the minute and I'm like look at you a nice and he's coming out of the mean phase but I mean, if you the baby in my house, you you gotTa fight for peace of Vegas so. I understand why but He's and you said you you you. You said, you have to boys girl Jake. Ultra boy's okay. All right. All right. Yeah. So we have three we have three boys and we got the girl on the fourth try so. I if not, we probably have five by now, but we got her on the end. So it's it's definitely is definitely different. disciplined. You know with the girl can you talk to my wife for me because I'm trying to get a daughter I'll just deal. She was going to ask you if you're going to try for the fourth time. I didn't WANNA push envelope. Telling. Me Ovens been removed from the kitch-. ACAPA. You're older three are boys and then you a daughter. Minor fourteen, thirteen, nine, and six. Yeah. My youngest is our girl. So mom I'm hoping that I get you know I I really get my my three boys to help look out for her when she gets old enough to hit that dating scene, and then hopefully, I'm seasoned enough as a dad to be able to handle those moments as they come my way here. No, I can't even anyhow but I know this is my two nieces that I try to have my hands on. Man. They hit thirteen and turn into XS and they come back to life about nineteen. And for for like six seven years they the demons just deemed like not even not even people. You know just hear horror stories online may and I remember my two, my two nieces they did some damage in them six years. Damn. So yeah the. Brace for impact over here what would you say your plans here now for the future what kind of goals you have you have you had a lot of success already in life Jake what kind of goals are plans? Do you have your yourself a future? I mean for me simple like you know my number one goes marines three three BS on life period like that's the number. One goal after that I'm a winning individual one or super bowl national championship as a head coach and I'm GonNa be a US senator off of that. Division. One national championship or super. Bowl does it right and I got some other stuff that I would like to do I've been operating. So everybody asked me now and I tell them Abu Operating off this book right here for the six years. And basically, the premise of it is like always go into best opportunity. Like your goals are cool. But take the best opportunity I turned down an opportunity to go work for Oprah Winfrey in two thousand and five super long story. But the bottom line was I gonNa make twenty eight, hundred dollars a day I that down and kept my seven thousand dollars a year a job because I was being hardline of my goals side kind of come off the Harlan my goals obviously I will. Raise three beason in life like if I had to quit my job to do to give them more time, I will So it's really about my kids. Now, oldest son last summer he was pissed because he transferred in from kindergarten to this other school he was in the second math group. He didn't like that didn't sit well with them. So we had to do a whole years of math over the summer. And you know my wife is awesome. Hot I'm pretty I'm really good at math so like he pretty much taught himself but he did a whole year of math in three months you know to me that's more important than anything I got set out for myself. Yeah. Yeah, very good I. I love that Jake Yeah. I'm relearning all this stuff as my kids are gone through in the way they teach math at school is kind of a little bonkers for the way that I'm used to doing it but it's it's it's good. It helps me expanded a little bit on myself in lasting. I WanNa hit you with your Jake I love to all the data get on the podcast. What type of advice do you have that new dad or for that about to be father WHO's out there listening? So you get that black poop off with soap and water not west wheat wipes, right? Like that was something that was like monumental. The biggest thing I tell all new fathers is the biggest thing I tell all DAS- inept position. Your wife is going to be someone different from three months before she gives birth to about nine to ten months after she gives birth. And I I didn't realize the first kid mean it causes so much pain. You know I I I tell everybody that's the desk the one thing that I wish I would known. Before I had a kid having a kid part they under struck the bathroom I kid off the couch. He flipped I couldn't catch him. He fell off couch not nap eight didn't even cry right but it's more. So with that relationship with your wife or or the mother of your kid that you know it gets crazy man like I thought she had two kids she'd be back to normal whoo that's go and nine months later like I still got you know somebody I don't really know in house and she came back but you know it's it's a different is a big adjustment when you put a kid in the house because her. Her focus went from you. Via Number one in a house. To that kid being number one hundred and you being like one million. So like the kid is number one and then you don't even exist anymore and that's how it should be right like her job is to take care of that kid and you can help all you want. But in the end of the day, my kids get sick they don't call for me ever. You know they're not calling for dead I ain't heard has name come out of anybody's mouth yet so Very well said, I love. The message is really been an honor for me say Jake Swig, you are a first class all the way. Thank you for your service and thank you for giving me a few minutes. You time your first fatherhood. Awesome. Appreciate it but makes you. Send it over to me man I'll I'll I'll send it out easy to. Turn. Back. To wrap things up here first place fatherhood of got to give a special. Thank you once again, Jake Swig for giving me a few minutes of his time. Here was such an honor. Pleased me up on twitter guys who dropped me that DMT instagram thought about today's episode. Always love reading your feedback lock it in I. Got some great guests joining me here next week. Follow me on Instagram at Alex underscore as to find out who they. Will be on giving you right off the top here. He's returning to the show UFC hall of fame fighter Ortiz was running for city council in his hometown of Huntington Beach. California don't miss out on that one is going to be an awesome episode. That's all I got for you guys today analogous. Thank you for listening to the first fatherhood. Please remember guys we not Davey sitters. We are fathers and we're not just bothers we are first class bothers. Open. Don't know.

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John McCain: Prisoner of War | When Your Luck Runs Out | 1

Against The Odds

45:31 min | Last month

John McCain: Prisoner of War | When Your Luck Runs Out | 1

"Join one to replace to listen to against the odds one week early and add free in the wandry app download. The wonder up in your apple or google play mobile app store today. This episode of against the odds contains explicit language and depictions of violence. Please be advised. It's the middle of the night on october. Twenty six nine thousand nine hundred sixty seven. An american pilot with puzzled hair and a sharp jaw wakes up confused in dark cold room. His name is john mccain. He's on the ground wearing nothing but his underwear. He looks around the tiny room. The concrete wall has a stain of dried blood on it. Water drips from the leaking ceiling. Like a metronome. is it a prison cell. He leans on his elbow to get up. A bolt of pain shoots through his right arm and then again when he tries to move his left arm. He's an agony and he's all alone. How did i get here. And then it all comes back. It's the middle of the vietnam war. His planes been shot out of the sky and now he's a prisoner of war. Two guards enter yelling in vietnamese. John has no idea what they're saying but he doesn't need a translator to know that they're angry. A third guard entrance carrying an old stretcher. That he places next to john they've been down and roll them onto it. It hurts like hell. John clinches his teeth and closes his eyes so that he doesn't scream he doesn't want these men to think he's weak. They carry him out of the cell and ben doors john. Squint trying to adjust his eyes to the light of day. It looks like they're in a courtyard surrounding them. Are a group of squat buildings. They answer another building and drop them on the floor. Another bolt of pain pierces through john's body. This new room is larger and the dried blood stains on. The wall are baker to standing in the center of the room. Our two vietnamese men one looks like a general tall stern. His posture ramrod-straight. The other is short and overweight. He lurks behind the general timid. The taller man speaks john and the shorter man steps forward to translate. Tell us what you know yankee. John looks than both in the eyes but stay silent. John knows the military code of conduct only allows him to reveal his name rank serial number and date of birth. I'm new tenant. Commander john mccain. My serial number is six two four seven eight seven my date of birth august. Twenty ninth nineteen thirty. Six tall man is not happy. He tries another approach. If you tell us where your plans will attack next. We'll consider giving you a hospital. Stay john guesses. Both arms are broken as well as one of his legs. He knows if he doesn't get medical attention he could die but he's not gonna tell them anything. Tell us. john feels a hard sting across his face that hurry but he refuses to say anymore. He repeats his name rank and date. Approach the tall interrogator slams john the ground and starts hitting joan can't imagine any worse he tries to think of something else anything else. He thinks about his father. Both his father and grandfather were decorated navy men. He wonders what they would do if they were here. What would they do to survive. Hey it's cassie. And i want to talk a little about our sponsor. Albert's were all ready to turn the page. Twenty twenty one. The tree runner from all birds is helping me tread later wherever this spring takes me the silky smooth and breathable eucalyptus offers and cushy sugarcane based suite foam souls deliver light and breezy comfort that leaves a better footprint than traditional synthetics. I've already received my tree runners in the mail. I absolutely love them or them gymnasts morning. They're super superlight. I love the color. I got this light gray color and a mesh super well with my style. I love the way they feel. And i love that. They're made from natural materials. That are better for the planet this spring. Stay light and breezy with the all birds tree runner. Find your pear at all. Birds dot com today against the odds is sponsored by. Adt with everything. That's going on these days. Couldn't we all use a little piece of mind for. At your safety insecurity has always been a top priority. That's why the leader in home security. Adt provides twenty four seven rapid response monitoring from their nine owned and operated call sanders. That's the largest security network in the us another thing to love all adt. Employees are taking critical measures to help protect everyone's health including offering contactless installation and using extra protective sanitation procedures. Be an everyday hero by stains safe at home. While eighty helps protect you and your loved ones get started with. At and get low flexible monthly payments to fit your budget when it matters most trust adt visit att dot com today. from wondering. I mike corey and this is against the aunts and the vietnam war ended almost fifty years ago. But for many americans and vietnamese. The wounds still feel fresh. American involvement in the south east asian nation was long and cost tens of thousands of american lives and millions more vietnamese for many americans. The conflict was necessary to stop the spread of communism and protect our way of life for others. It was bloody expensive and immoral intervention into another country's politics but for those years of agony and death came stories of heroism tales of people who sacrificed to save others and prisoners of war who survived the unthinkable. That's what happened to lieutenant. Commander john mccain most people today know him as a former senator and presidential candidate but not everyone knows about the experience that turned him into that devoted public servant over the next four episodes telling a story of how john mccain survived six years in the most infamous prisoner of camp in vietnam. John always considered himself to be a lucky man. But what happens when he's put up against an enemy determined to break him. This is episode one. When your luck runs out it's early. Summer nineteen fifty four and eighteen year old. John mccain looks out the window at the passing treason fields. He's in the passenger seat of his family car and his father john mccain jr. or jack because everyone knows him is driving jack always insists on driving even though john's begged him many times the let him but today john didn't even want to get in the car he and his father are making the hour. Long track to the us naval academy in annapolis maryland. Johns about to begin four years of training there but the last thing john wants to do he looks out the window. As the field's role by reminds him of the campus at princeton john visited a year ago with some friends and he fell in love with a place he could take classes on literature. Maybe russia fraternity. But that isn't his destiny. From the day he was born. Everyone expected john to become a navy. Man he's the firstborn son both his father and his grandfather his namesake's work related. Us navy captains. His father received both the silver and bronze stars for sinking japanese submarines during the second world. War john wonders. Why he's not more like his father or his father has always been responsible. Got good grades. Did the right thing. John's spent high school having fun pulling pranks dating girls and fighting one time i got expelled. But although he didn't want to enroll in the us naval academy. John wants to prove to his father. He can make john fiddles with the radio. Dial and then sneaks a glance at his father and do you remember your first academy. Were you nervous jackass. Quiet for a moment. Finally he says not really. John tries again any advice. Don't forget to be the first to make your bed every morning. Show them you're in charge. Yes sir the steel gates of the entrance to campus remind john prison. There's no going back now. Before they part. John turns to his dad again. His father cracks a smile. Relax you're a mccain mccain. men are navy men. you're going to excel. It's what we do then. Jack gives john a firm handshake stoic. His father gets in the car and drives away. John mccain's life as a navy. Man is just beginning john. Hey john it's march thirteenth nineteen sixty and john mccain is in a deep sleep which isn't an unusual thing in the two years since he graduated the naval academy john's developed a reputation as someone who parties and recovers on the weekends. But this time it's four another reason yesterday. An ad sky raider plane. John was piloting around the naval air station. Corpus christi crashed into the bay. John emerged mostly unscathed a sore back and sprained ankle. He laughed about it with the other pilots. Invite them back to his place. The next night he wanted to celebrate his brush with death john. Wake up man. let's go. John opens his eyes to see his roommate. Chuck larson standing above him shaking his shoulder. Chuck's outgoing like john. If quickly become the basis social butterflies always making sure the bachelors in the training facility have a place to hang out. Someone's here to see you. What's her name chuck smiles. It's a he tells them. The party's tonight groggy. John looks pass chuck and sees a man standing there. The man is gray hair crewcut. Joan doesn't recognize him but he quickly seized the man's uniform. Shit it's navy admiral. John scrambled to get out of bed. Stay in bed and sign mccain. John throws on his shirt and sits up as the man. Introduces himself rear. Admiral robert goldthwait an old friend of john's father. Jack mccain heard about the plane crash and asked the admiral to talk to john. Your father's worried about you. Tell him i'm fine. Just brought his couple pills will do the trick. That's just like my dad. John thinks to himself always checking up on me. But the admiral's demeanor mix. John realized the man's not just asking about the accident. His father worried about john. In general are you sure. I said just tell him. I'm fine. the admiral leaves and john falls back on his pillow frustrated. What's it gonna take to prove to his father that he's on the right path. Chuck comes back into the room. Hey still good for tonight. John pauses thinks about the accident the admiral's visit and his father. Of course i am. Of course jon closes his eyes. He's still needs a bit more sleep. Know my it's november twenty eighth nineteen sixty five john mccain sits in the cockpit of a fighter plane marveling at the open blue sky. John's gotten a hell of a lot better at flying in the last five years since the crash in corpus christi sure some of the fellow pilots think he's still reckless but quickly racking up airtime and expertise. It might come in handy soon a year ago the us maddox was attacked by three north vietnamese trump boats in the gulf of tonkin and that escalated the conflict between the us and north vietnam american bombing runs increased earlier that year and more troops have been sent every month. John's pretty confident that he'll be called into service but he's not sure when he knows it's his duty just like it was his father's duty to take part in world war two. He knows how important the war was for his father. John's not completely convinced he'll live up to the example. John checks his readings. He's just above the shore of virginia. It'll be an hour until he arrives in mississippi his current base and then he gets to see his wife. Carol shepp the party. Animal is now a married man and a father. Carol had two children from her first marriage doug andrew and john's already started the process of officially adopting the voice. He and carol are now talking about having a third but she's worried about having a baby when john could be deployed at any time but john reassured he can fight and a father. Suddenly the entire plane shakes ship. John surveys controls engine failure. He starts running through calculations in his head where can land. How much time does he have. He picks up the radio. I got a flameout. John knows the most important thing to do is not panic. He tries to relight the engine he tries again and then again nothing. The plane is going down. John deep breath and polcy ejection control handle on the side of the cpap. The cockpit opens and the wind flushes in john shooting the plane into the sky as he rips through the air he gets anxious is his parachute going to open. Is it going to open. Is it going to john's parachute launches. And he's now floating peacefully through the sky he thanks god and watch as plane crashes in the distance. John shakes his head. He got lucky again. He thinks about carole the kids his parents and the war. Maybe it's time to grow up. Maybe it's time to start taking things a bit more seriously. Maybe it's time to get ready for the vietnam war. It's nine months later. July twenty ninth nineteen sixty seven. John mccain's in the cockpit of his a four skyhawk attack aircraft sitting on the runway of an aircraft carrier called the uss forestall. He's off the northern coastline of vietnam. It's a key. Launching pack for american fighter planes a month before his wife carol gave birth to a daughter sydney. It was hard to lease them but he knew he had to. He wanted to prove himself as a top aviator and combat experience. Is the best way joins been thinking about this mission for a while now preparing for it. He steals himself. Were going to be a dangerous one. Suddenly john's plainest jolted. He looks around but the fuck was that. He's not sure what happened where they attacked. There's no way the vietnamese made it all the way over here. No way maybe friendly fire. He's trying to put it together when he realizes his plane is on. Fire john mcso and realizes that flame separate him from the tarmac. He's got to get over for the plane. Explodes declines over the nose of a cockpit and jumps down on the deck hitting the ground loudly. He feels his skin shar and throbs hitting the ground. He quickly rolls on the ground and stamps out the flames. He pauses. he's alive. It was some sort of mouth function. Okay it was an accident but the fires put quickly to a few other planes and john spots a pilot escaping another a four doused in flames. John runs over to help them but out of the corner of his eye he sees dropped rocket burning that could be the bomb explodes and john flies in the air hitting the ground twenty feet away. John sees blood and realizes he's been hit by fragments from the explosion. It hurts to brief hurts to move. John pierce through the thick black smoke. It's chaos fire everywhere bodies strewn across the deck crater size olds on the carrier. John knew the dangers of going to the he was about to undertake an important bombing mission. But now he's lucky to have survived. But john can't shake the feeling that next time he won't be so lucky it's late august. Nineteen sixty seven a month since the us force the went up in flames. One hundred and thirty four men died that day. The worst loss of life on a uso ship since world war. Two john is hanging out in the squadron. Ready room was several other pilots and servicemen. everyone's subdued. The ghost of the fire seemed to hover over everyone. John's shocked he survived. It was his bomber. That had been hit by the missile. He had been just a few more feet to the left. That'd be it. An officer enters the room and asks for everyone's attention. John recognizes him. He's from another ship the us oriskany. We need men for our ship. Is there anyone here that would like to volunteer for combat duty. The room falls silent. The men are still recovering from the fires. Some are still afraid to even step into a cockpit and the us oriskany. It's lost more pilots and planes than any other carrier and also suffered a horrible fire a year earlier killing forty four men in his past life. John would have made a joke to alleviate the tension john's changing. I'll go the accident on the forest was bad but it wasn't combat and john knows he needs to get up in the air to prove himself as an aviator. It's why he came to vietnam. He'll do whatever it takes to get up there. 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The odds schedule your free product tour right now at sweet dot com slash the odds net sweet dot com slash the odds and now for a quick word about our sponsors at monday dot com every episode. We bring you stories about struggle and triumph but at work. We don't want to struggle to achieve our goals. Monday dot com work. Os is a customizable platform. Powerful enough to be your teams go to destination for everything work but simply enough so anyone can get star limits. Monday dot com worker. Wes gives the teams that use it. The ability to easily create the tools. They need and want for their work. And that's one of the things. I love most about it. You can create a workflow from scratch or pick a template get started right away and adjusted. Whoever you want managed anything you need. Projects processes leads client requests or whatever. Your team manages from teams of five to five thousand. Collaborating across the globe is easy with monday dot com. I'm actually been using it quite a lot for my personal brand and youtube channel as i travel around the world. I have my collaborators. My editors everyone coming together and using it. It's really easy for us to see who's done. What when and what needs to be done next honestly. It's a fantastic platform to start your free two week. Trial go to monday. Dot com one. More time. that's monday dot com for a free two week trial. It's midday on october. Twenty sixth nineteen sixty seven and johns nine thousand feet above vietnam. It's cold in his a four skyhawk cockpit but john's focused care even a half second of distraction. The difference between life and death. John's flown a few missions since joining the us s orange county. But this one feel special. It's an alpha strike on a militarily significant target. The squad of fighters are planning to bomb a large thermal power plant in the middle of vietnam's capital hanoi he begged to be put on this mission the operations officer wanted to assign this mission to more seasoned pilots but john and his personally destroyed two enemy aircrafts during a raid on an airfield outside of hanoi. The officer relented but warned him. We expect to lose some pilots. In this rate be careful. John told him not to worry. He's a survivor. A warning bill goes off as john and the squad approach annoy the enemies tracking them hands and coming. I see him sam's or surface to air missiles fly to the sky billowing trails of smoke. They looked telephone poles launching towards drip says controls and flies lower within minutes. The sky fills with black clouds but john's most there he dives down four thousand feet and locks in on the power plant missile swoosh around him as he gets closer and closer shit missiles locked in on him he could fly invasive measure but might not be able to circle back again he decides to keep going and he releases his bombs towards the power plant. Now he's got to get the hell out of there. He pulls his stick to start sleeping with just as his plane lifts missile blows off his entire right wing and the plane drops quickly. John stays cold radios in. I'm hit and in one quick motion. Polls the ejection seat handle but unlike his earlier airplane emergencies. This one doesn't go smoothly. He smashes into parts of the plane breaking his left arm his right arm his right knee. John's barely conscious as he's thrown into the sky. The last thing he sees clearly is a body of water thousands of feet below him his parachute opens and then he blacks out cold water. Jolts john back to consciousness. He's underwater. what how did you get here. He quickly recalls the bombing. Run the missile attack ejection. And now he needs to get to the surface he can see the bottom of shallow lake uses left leg push himself and slowly floats up. He's above water. The when he reaches to inflate his life vest. Fuck his arms are in serious pain. He can't move them. Which means long john sinks underwater again the cold burns his gear and parachute are dragging him down and when his right leg hits the bottom of the lake cook he shoots up it using his left leg again. He kicks john uses. His teeth pulled the toggle of his life. This come on come on and it works. John's best inflates and now he's floating but the pain overwhelms him and he blacks out again. John regains consciousness and feel something tugging at his shirt and his pants still in water but is lying on something a stretcher. He opens his eyes and sees a dozen yelling vietnamese men. He doesn't understand what they're saying or doing. They're wearing undershirts and shorts so they can't be members of the vietnamese army. They must be civilians. They lift a makeshift stretcher. And roughly drag john out of the shallow water. The men prompt john onto the shore. Mormon join them also yelling. They rip off john's wet clothing. And start hitting start spitting on. John knows he's their enemy. And this is their opportunity to take out their frustrations for all the bombing runs. John protests horsely please. He's my arms but the ignoring its then that he looks over at his right leg and it seems angles. Oddly my leg my leg they pound right was shoulder and john. Here's something inside and crack the crowd become a mob hitting him again and again and again is about to pass out in the pain and then a female voice yells loudly in vietnamese. Whatever she said it worked the mob stops attacking him and clears a path for a young woman. She approaches john barking instructions to the men pointing gesturing coaches down in front of john tenderly examining limbs before he knows it. She's creating bamboo splints for his arms and legs john thanks. This nurse is some sort of angel but then a truck arrives and three vietnamese officers. Jump out and rush towards john. They showed instructions of the crowd. The nurse stands for ground. An officer leaves and returns quickly with something. It's a cup of tea. The nurse helps john take a few sips. And even though it's a little dirty johnson flooded with relief but then the nurse backs away. John strange to watch her as the army officers in walk new towards the truck. John shutters. if that's how civilians true to crash the american what will the vietnamese army do. George day walks over to his door and leans in trying to hear something. It's october twenty. Six nine hundred. Sixty seven and george nicknamed bud by his friends and fellow. Inmates has been in the cell for about a month two months before but have been flying an f one hundred fighter plane. When it was down in vietnam he was captured and brought here to hoa lo prison. The french built the prison in the late. Eighteen hundreds when they call an is the region the prisons become known for the brutal torturing of political prisoners vietnamese referred to it as the fiery furnace or hells hole thick fourteen foot walls shards of glass on top of the walls to prevent anyone from even thinking about going over heavily armed guards tiny cells multiple solitary confinement areas in nineteen fifty four. The french left the country and the vietnamese reclaim the prison converting it into a prisoner of war camp just as the american started to increase their presence in the country but arrived with a broken right arm broken legs and injured back all from the crash and the guards took no pity. The chief interrogator tortured him for days but just barely survived. That time and still recovering. What you hear Butts roommate norris overly leans against the wall norah shrugs probably nothing but bud senses something different. He thinks back to the moment he arrived at the camp entering past the guards and gates just the memory of it sends chills down his spine but suddenly realized what's happening a new prisoners being brought in. He says a prayer the unlucky bastard will need it. Welcome to the hanoi hilton. Whoever you are. It's early evening on october. Twenty seventh nineteen sixty seven and jack mccain and his wife. Roberta are in their london. Home jackson stationed in england and patou were preparing to leave for a dinner at the iranian. Ambassador's home just as jack puts on his navy jacket the foam risk. Hello roberto watch this jack. She knows her husband and can tell. Something's bothering him. jack politely. Thanks the caller and hangs up. Roberta asked him. If everything's okay. And jack explains the caller was a navy admiral informing him. That two planes were shot down over hanoi. One of them was john's plane. No one could see any evidence of survivors roberta's at a loss is john dead. Jack explains it's too early to tell he'll get more information later. Roberta grabs the phone to let their hosts know. They won't be coming jack. Stop sir. we're going to go and we're going to keep our mouths shut jack in roberta ten. The dinner trying to keep their minds off. John's fate when people ask about john's deployment they stay optimistic. When they return home jack receives another phone call. It's admiral tom. More the american chief of naval operations. Jack is old friends with more and is pleased. He can get the honest truth. No bullshit jack urges his friend a level with them. Jack jack looks out onto the quiet london street and takes a minute. He now knows he may never see his son again. It's a bright sunny day in jacksonville. Florida and carol mccain is at home with her three children. The youngest sydney is only thirteen months old and already reminds carroll john. She's crawling jumping doing whatever she can to escape from her playpen. Carol really misses john. She knew she was marrying into the military but didn't foresee a war. That would immediately take john away. She wants him here. She wants him to play a role in sydney's and the other boys lives. Carol opens the door to discover two men standing there. The i is a young carrier. Air group commander who she knows. The other is an older man that looks like chaplin. Her heart stops one of the first things. Military wives learn is that is never a good sign when a chaplain comes to her door. can we come in carol. what's happened. where's john can. we come in. Tell me the commander takes a breath and tells her john's plane has been shot down and there are no signs. He survived the crash carols. Zones out immediately the man. She loves the father of her children. His dead she wants to cry. She wants to scream but she knows she can't. She doesn't want to scare the children and most importantly she knows john wouldn't want it so she stands there trying to listen to what the men telling her. While they're heartbreaks. We get support for madison reed at home hair. Colour may have tried coloring your hair at home before and it didn't go so well. Well imagine there's a company that delivers right to your door. Everything you need to transform your hair like a pro with step by step instructions that come with your kit plus videos online at show you exactly what to do. That's madison reed. They give you this magically stress-free experience plus you're going to get beautiful results another thing to love. Madison reed products are made with ingredients like argon oil carrollton and with no ammonia parabens sodium laurel sulfate. If you're ready to look like you just want to the salon at a fraction of the price starting at just twenty two dollars head right now. Madison dash reed dot com. Use promo code the odds and you'll get ten percent off plus free shipping on your first caller kit. That's promo code the odds late october. Nineteen sixty seven. John mccain has just woken up from a nightmare only. It wasn't a nightmare. It's been his life over the last few days or he thinks it's been the last few days it's hard to tell them the small dark dirty prison. His time there has been spent being beaten by guards and then blacking out again and again and again. John looks down at an empty bowl on the ground. There's some rice left. But john can't eat it it's not that he doesn't want to. He's permanently hungry. He can't get up or even move his arms the sharp jabbing pains so the guards spoon feeds him but john throws up after. Just a few bites. Something's wrong with a stomach. Is it dysentery. John wonders if carole and the kids know about as crash or his parents. Does anyone suspect. He's still alive. His father looms large in his mind especially when he's speaking to his interrogators he knows his father would never give in to torture. It's not what an american does and is definitely not what a mccain does. But john also remembers a fellow pilot who broke his femur when he was injected from a plane the man's injury went untreated for a week and by the end of that time he died john looks at his leg severely. Swollen discolored out of place. It looks worse than the pilot's legs and then it dawns on he's most likely going to suffer that pilots same fate. The guard winters is short and fat. The milky right. I from cataracts. John's dubbed him the book. He's been hurting john over and over these last few days and now he's back for more. John takes a deep breath and starts begging a skinny man standing behind. The bug translates the conversation. Listen please i'm hurt. Bring me to the hospital. I need to go to the hospital now. You have given us no information. Listen i promise. Just take me to the hospital. And i'll give you whatever information you want. I promise john's bluffing. At least that's what he tells himself. The bug returns with lanky. Man named zorba. The man's wearing medical gear and begins looking at johns leg but he's a little rough and when he grabs john's leg. It hurts even more so much for bedside manner. The medic turns to the bug and shakes his head. So are you going to bring me no. Please take me to the hospital. And i'll get well. I'll tell you what you need to know. The bug shakes his head. Please it's too late for you. The bug and the medic leave john behind the dark prison cell john lies. They're realizing they're right. It is too late for him. he's most likely going to die in the cell. John is woken from a brief slumber by the sound of his prison. Cell door opening though he's probably only been a captive for a few days. He's already acquired a fear of the sound of the heavily. Rusted steel door. it means guards are visiting. it means he's going to be tortured. It means more pain and this time. John shore it means death but when he looks up to see his torturer the bug the man. Grins your father is a big ad. Now we'll take you to the hospital. John is confused almost delusional. His father here has help arrive. Is the war suddenly over to be win. Two guards john onto a stretcher. The pain from just being moved knocks. John unconscious john wakes up in a small room. It's dark dirty rat scurry along the wall. And there's a large puddle in the corner but he also spots older medical equipment and his legs and arms are in splints. It's a hospital in unsanitary one but definitely a hospital. The bug appears with two other people. They looked proud as though they know something john doesn't. The bug tells john that the doctors have given him blood and plasma as they list all the things they did for him and how nice they've been. John closes his eyes. Everything's still hurts. So they actually even help him. A man translates for the bug. Now it's your turn mccain tell us what you know once again. John gives him his name rank serial number and date of birth. He's repeated these facts over and over since his capture. It's as goto response. The bug starts to look angry. If you tell us nothing will send you back. And i'm sure you don't want that. John swallows if he returns to that prison. He knows he'll die so he decides to give them something nothing huge. Nothing vietnamese wouldn't already know. Hopefully that'll be enough. He tells them the name of the ship. The squadron's number and the target the day of the bombing was the power plant. The bug wants more. He asked the names of john squad members john size sounding defeated and starts to list. Names bart star elijah pitts. Jim taylor boy mar fleming little to the guards know that john's reciting the offensive lineup of the green bay packers. The bugs men diligently. Write down the names. John tries hard to keep a straight face. The bug asked for the names of future. American targets and john starts lifting us cities. He knows where already bond they seem to be falling for it. But it's not enough. The bug pushes for more information and johns tired. Plus would they really beat him up in a hospital. No fuck you. The bug gets angry and he hits john in the chest hard. The bug keeps going with. Jon decides to test them. He starts screaming loud enough. That if anyone else in the hospital wonder what's going on in this room. The bugs stop speeding mutters under his breath and storms that john smiles to himself but then as satisfaction disappears he may have saved himself now but the bug will eventually get back at him. Jack mccain and his wife. Roberta are in their london kitchen on the phone together. They're calling their son. Joe johns younger brother. Joe's reporter in san diego so we have a pretty good idea when something's happening. Plus both of his parents are on the line. It's something big honey. Johnny's been shot. Now there's a long silence. Jack cuts in his wingman size plane explode. They don't think he got out. Joe begins to cry. How why. Jack is silent. As thinks of his response. He's had to inform hundreds of families of the deaths of loved ones but never zone his instinct is to say there's nothing to do but instead he takes a moment and then pray from my boy jack and roberta get through to john's wife carol to discover she already knows jack again finds it hard to go through his usual motions. This is own son. he's talking about. He tells carol that if somehow john survived the crash he's been captured. He'll probably die in their hands. They're brutal the pow's and they'll do their worst to john. Because of his family name they hang up. Roberta goes to change for bed while she does jackets down on his knees and he prays. It's late october. Nineteen sixty seven and people in hanoi crowd into a market. People of all ages are buying goods running into france and catching a radio starts blaring and the crowd quiets down. These voice of vietnam broadcasts are the best way to get updates. What's happening in the war longer. List of american pilots captured over north vietnam was a series of newcomers john. Sidney mccain was one of them was. He was a carrier navy lieutenant. Commander blast thursday twenty-six over. He took off from the carrier. Oriskany or raiding mission against we city unfortunately for the jet plane he piloted was one of the ten me sky. Cain was married in nineteen sixty five and ten mycole daughter. Sure he also loved his wife and child. Then why did he fight here dropping bombs on the next vietnamese women and children. Ganda put the aetna me's and this annoy market don't know that they believe that navy lieutenant commander john mccain is responsible for the death of vietnamese civilians. If it was up to the people of the country he would be dead at this very moment john mccain has always considered himself a very lucky man but here in the middle of vietnam seems like his luck has finally run out. This is the first episode of our four part series. John mccain prisoner of war. If you like our show please give us a five star rating and review. Follow against the odds on apple podcasts. Amazon music the wondering app or wherever. You're listening right now. Join one replace in the wondering how to listen one week early and add free and the episode notes. You'll find some links and offers from our sponsors. Please support them by supporting them. You help us offer the show for free. Another way to support us is to answer a short survey at one three dot com slash survey and a quick note about our scenes in most cases. We can't really know what was said. But everything is based on historical research. If you'd like to learn more about this event we highly recommend john. Mccain's autobiography faith of my fathers co written by mark. Salter as well as the book. John mccain an american odyssey by robert timber as well as the hbo max documentary john mccain for whom the bell tolls. I'm your host mike. Corey anthony dell call. Wrote this episode. David gardner is our producer. Our editor is more welts. Taylor keelan is our consultant. Brian white is our associate producer. Our audio engineer is sergio and recaps. Sound design is by rob sheely guy are executive producers. Are stephanie and marcel. Louis for wondering look no further than one degree plus for the perfect mother's day gift she'll get to enjoy our hit podcast even the rich ad free and so much more. Each season offers an in depth. Look at the lives scandals of the rich and famous like the kardashians beyond saying jay. Z and britney spears. Here's a quick preview. Twenty cops storm into the house. What the hell is going on. That's what lynn wants to know. One of the cops tells her we've got a fifty one fifty psychiatric hold. Were taking britney in this mother's day give wondering plus by visiting wonder p l u s dot com slash. Mom wonder feel the story.

john John john mccain vietnam navy Commander john mccain jack jack mccain Adt us naval academy Carol shepp us ben doors john mike corey vietnamese army john mccain jr princeton john War john wonders mccain mccain Chuck larson
Fearless Success  John Foley  Blue Angels

A New Direction

1:18:45 hr | 2 years ago

Fearless Success John Foley Blue Angels

"Say the game is good old Monday morning coffee cold. Live is. Hi, everyone and welcome to a new direction. My name is Jay is handle. I gonna tell you seldom if you're not glad to be here, you will be because on telling you this show today. It's going to blow your mind. I have John fully with me. That's right. John foley. No, seriously. He's got his own Wikipedia the whole thing. The dude wrote this book. I know the people who are now listening this on a podcast. I get it. You can't see the book, but the book is called fearless success. The man was a Blue Angel. Actually, if he can actually be a was as a Blue Angel. You're always a Blue Angel. They just invite you back to consult, you from time to time so we're at talk with him because I'm telling you, the book is great. And if you've ever said, how can I become more elite? How can I become better at what I do? How can I advance my career? How can my life be better? How can my business better? How can I have better people on my team? I'm telling you all the answers are in this book called fearless success. And he is absolutely fantastic. And we're gonna talk with them day. But let's do what we do every week, right? And that is, let's check in with you in the four areas of your life. You know, that I believe that we are four people. We are physical people. We are mental people were emotional people. And we are spiritual people, and we gotta check in right every week, we got to check in because get find it where we're at and, you know how are we growing, right? Because the truth manner is you. There's no, there's no staying the same. You either growing your your dying. That's it. Bottom line and growth comes can come in so many different ways you could grow deeper. You can grow out, you can grow up. There's so many different ways you could grow. But if you're not growing Promessi you're dying. So let's find out where you're at today and all this for areas who life. So let's look at physically on a scale of went to ten one being miserable. Ten being outstanding. Where are you at today? Is that a four five six seven what's that number for you? Right. And why do you have that number? Right. Eating. Right. He do things that you need to do you working out putting the fork down. Right. Because maybe you're eating a little bit too much. Maybe you're consuming a little too much soda. Maybe you've got that Greece from the potato chips going up to your album elbow, and you need to stop that. What is it? How are how you maybe feel? In the winter, the weather. Right. And no some people are still dealing with pollen and different parts of the country and the world. So what do you need to do what you need to do? Whatever that number is. What can you do right now to change that number to the next number not trying to get you from wherever you're at to attend? I'm just trying to get you from whatever your number is right now to the next number. So it's a four. How do you get to a five today? Right. How do you start that journey? All right. You got okay great. There's your first number right? All right. So let's look at mentally, how are we doing mentally today on that same scale one being miserable ten being outstanding? What's your number mentally? And what do I mean by that? Well, I mean, what are you feeding your mind, right? We got two halves of this brain. Right. There's the right side. That's this creative side. And then there's less side. That's this logical side. What are you feeding your brain? Right. What are you doing to feed it to mentally, get yourself growing and going? Right. So like if you listen to the show, you know, I interview bestselling authors and some of the most outstanding people in the world. Right. This is a good show for you to listen to because it's going to feed your brain. It's gonna feed. Both sides. It's going to kind of engage that logical side. It's going to gauge a creative side. How can I apply this? Right. But you can do other things like maybe take up an instrument or learn a new language, things that can engage sides of your brain variety. Things. Right. So what are you doing? What do you got to change? What's that number? What do you got to change to make that? Number go higher. Right. You got that we got two numbers. Right. We've got physical number of mental number right Thirdly. How you doing emotionally? So often we call them motions emotional tells right skilled when to ten one being miserable ten being outstanding. How you doing mostly the little things getting to you, right? Did there are maybe you're able to just really you're a really good place. And the little things aren't bothering you. Right. That's part of that emotional quotient motion, telling the other part of this emotional part of Hugh, who you are, is, how will you able to relate to the emotions of others? Can you listen long enough to really understand their emotions? Right. What do you need to prove that, what do you need to improve your motion stability? What do you need to improve yourself because let's be honest Vokes emotions of a choice. Right. Anybody who says to you? Well, they caused me to feel this way. No, no, no, no, no, no. You do not want to be owned by people that way, you're in control of your emotions. So what can you do to be more in control of those emotions? So that regardless of what life throws at you. You could still come out positive. All right. So you got three numbers now. Right. You got physical number mental number emotional number, and then finally spiritual which spiritual number scale of one to ten one being miserable. Ten being outstanding. Which are spiritual number today. Rainy, go. We'll j what he my spiritual. Yeah. I, I don't believe in God. Okay. Well, maybe you believe that nature centers you. Maybe you believe that karma is the thing that you believe in it could be a variety. Maybe it doesn't matter. It could be a number of things. But what is that thing that brings you back to the center, we're gonna hear we're gonna hear John talking about the center point. And, and we're going here. About that, right? Because it's a it's a really key part of his of what he does. But what centers you spiritually? Right. What, what brings you back to center? Right. And if it has got how's that going for you? All right. I just asked that. What's that? That's number for you. See got four numbers. Right. You got to physical number mental number Moshel number spiritual number think of those as the forelegs of table. And if you're trying to eat on table, and they're uneven makes it kinda hard to keep plate on the table. Doesn't it? But also, if they're all too low, right? It also means that if you're sitting normal chair at also makes things difficulty. So what we want to do in our life as we wanna be balanced. We went to bring all those things up. Right. And we want to bring them up to the right height. And this leads me to my next guest. I am so excited. I I just giddy. I know I shouldn't be getting, but I'm giddy. All right. His name is John fully. He's a former lead solo pilot of the blue angels, a slow on fellow at the Stanford school of business and an expert in the how the. How of high-performance teams as a Blue Angel consistently performed an extreme high stakes environment flying at speeds more than five hundred miles per hour. And in formations as close as eighteen inches apart to survive in those circumstances. He had to rely on the culture of high trust in leadership that turned inherently unforgiving flight into extraordinarily experiences. So John is been he has been all over. Right. He he's found the glad to be here foundation to talk a little bit about. He is also just highly sought after speaker. And, you know, I feel about my fellow speakers. Right. As a speaker myself. Listen folks, if you're somebody who's listening to the show, and I know that so many of you all the world do and you wanna look for some getting spy, motivate, you and is going to give you something practical take home with you're to want to get fully before, John graduated from the US Naval Academy with three mechanical engineering. He also was a defensive back for you flip people with the midshipmen Shipman. He played into bowl games and he helped navy to one of the. Four year records at the time as a pilot, John was a top ten carry six times before becoming marine its rector pilot and a Blue Angel hills master's degree in business management from the Stanford graduate school of business. And in international policy studies from Stanford University, it is my pleasure leads gentleman. Please John fully to a new direction, John to direction AJ glad to be here. Thank you so much. I love what we just went through together your listeners that was how I I it's funny that you say that because I get from guests and you're going to be a friend, I promise before this is over. I get from my friends who are graciously come on the show, and they say to be quite often, they go I I've just never thought about that before. But it was actually really good. It's a really good way to kind of start off and see where I'm really at and check in with myself. Right. And I just believe in it. I believe firmly that we need to check in with all the air life. And then figure out what we're going to do to take. That. So I I'm real firm believer that John is brought to you today by our sponsors, inline business brokers and advisors. Internationally known they partner with business owners. So when it's time to sell their businesses, here's what they do, when it's time to sell their business. They contact the professionals and expert at experts at inland business brokers and advisors. You can learn more about this internationally known business brokerage and it is in line dot com. E N. L I, G dot com and Linda crafted team realtors doesn't matter where you're at in the world. If you are looking to buy our sale real estate, they can hook you up with the right person or if you're in the Research Triangle, park area of North Carolina. They can help you directly. So check out Linda craft and team realtors at Linda craft dot com. And this week's t shirt shout out of the week. Right. I'm wearing the golden dome t shirt, because my guest is a golden domer- with the blue angels. And it says, what does it say today, it says what play like a champion today, right? Well, I gotta think Tony. Thank. He's an expert real estate agent with Lind. Craft team. Realtors. He set me the extra large shirt, I said, I would wear it. So I'm wearing it. Just a shot out. The Tony Tony. You're a man of excellence and you do a great job with Linda and her team. And so thank you for the teacher. We're gonna play like a champion today. And that's what John fully so John. So this book fearless success. I'm holding it up for people who are watching us live. And we wanna thank everybody for watching us live right now. And for those people who are going to be to this podcast. I know you can't see it, but you're gonna wanna buy this book. It's available everywhere. So John fearless success. Let's, let's talk about this, this outstanding insightful, and I wrote on my Amazon review. It's just a real practical guide to success. So when you your intention of writing this book, who was who did you who we thinking of when you wrote this book? Great. You know, I took me ten years and four manuscripts. And I know you J as writer not you, you pour your heart and soul into these things right. And it was my first one. So I, I guess that's another challenge. But my, my thing was, I wanted to share the experiences that I had in many parts of my life, but mostly with the blue angels because it was very unique. I mean that I was there for three years, and it's a crucial of high performance and high performance culture. Glad to be here mindset, which we we'll talk a lot more about and I wanted to share that with others, so they could benefit and that includes entrepreneurs business owners, but really every single person who wants to get better wants to enjoy their life. More wants to make a difference in people's lives. But it's also really clearly good for your professional side of your life and your personal. I kinda geared to those two I. So your story, you have one of those rare stories. Okay. I mean, and I say that in mean this really in a very complementary way because you have a rare story in that you go you your little boy, and you see the blue angels fly as a little boy, and right from the get-go something happens to your heart and you go. Oh, dad. I'm going to be that. And, and, and you I mean your whole life. All of a sudden, from this time your child is centered on finding a way to be one of those blue angels. And I I'm sitting here and I'm reading your story and I'm going. Wow. I mean I I mean 'cause I didn't have that, that didn't happen for me. Right. I mean all this happen later in life for me of where I found out where it wasn't. It was like me. And what does that gotta be? Like, when you just know from the time your child at this is this is my purpose. This is what I'm going to do. I mean what clicked? What would you try to describe it in the book? But I really wanna get at what really clicked for you, because I think people want to know when is that clicking point. Maybe it doesn't happen as child. But maybe it happens later in adult. What was that click that said of man, this is going to do right now? I'm Wiki hundred percent. I mean when you feel that an and you're right, you feel in the heart, not the hit what we're talking about is not a conscious thing. It's deeper than that, right? For me personally, and I think you can't find it many times your life. In fact, some of the I think, is a Kurt Monica song that says some most interesting people, I know are still searching for that, right? And, and. For me. I was I was blessed to find out as a child my background. My dad was an army officer in an engineer. I had one of those, my mom was just a precious woman that taught me love my dad taught me wisdom and had a great, great childhood, and I remember I wanted to be just like my dad. So I thought, that's what I be right. And then he took me air show, and like you mentioned, I look, up in the sky and I see these six magnificent blue jets flying that day end, it rocked me from not just the, the senses of the noise of power, the smell of smoke oil, but in the crowd, you know, we played football you know, there's, there's an energy around that, but it rocked me to my core. And I do remember turn my dad's seen dad. I'm going to do that. And in it was, what was really critical, Jane, I think, is, there was no doubt in my mind that I could do that. What I didn't know was how right didn't know how it was going to get there. And I think that's okay for a lot of. Of us, we don't need to know the hat you wanna have that crazy dream, you wanna have that goal. And that's even more important than knowing how 'cause you will invent the how and for me, you know, and you saw the book it was, it was a while, right? You know, I I went from being one in a jet fighter pilot in eventually Blue Angel. I wanted to play football. We both did at college level. But I knew that, that was gonna be my future. So you know I had a goal had a vision and that allowed me to stay focused. I knew I needed to do well in school as best I could to get a shot, you know, and it's all about getting your shot, right? I remember asking the coach. One day, just me the patch. Give me on the field. That I'll prove it to you in the same thing with flying jets. Just get me in the cockpit and an approve it to you. And so it worked out a lot of struggles though we can go into those a lot of setbacks but it took eighteen years in there. I was in strapped in the cockpit of this amazing f eighteen blue Angels' jet. We're talking with John Foley. He's author of the outstanding book entitled. Fearless success, by the way, it's vailable everywhere, books or stoled. I'm just telling you right now, if you're bookstore, doesn't have this book in the bookstore, I want you to ask them. Why? Okay. Why don't you have this book in the bookstore? Because his book is that good? All right. You should tell them that all right? And by the way, if you if you're frayed to, to say that to your bookstore person, get me, I will go to your books person, say, why don't you have this book? Okay, 'cause I'm not afraid I'll go ahead. I'll say to anybody. So it's all good. And he's brought to you by inland business brokers advisors, and we thank them for being a sponsor of this show, since the very beginning, you can find more information at inline, that's Ian L dot com. So John, one of the things that I laughed at a giggled, because we're a lot of like, in this is that as you're going through this process, the ups and downs. You go to Colorado and you hear your one hundred sixty five pounds, soaking wet and you're gonna play football which I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh at that. But I you know, I played football I played football small college. I was to seventy five right? So, so I'm I've laughing at this and and you know you say gimme the pads and I almost like hearing you almost. There's like this little like, you know, just gimme the dang pads man. 'cause I'm gonna play and I can almost hear it. And then as you go along in this career thing, the you get you get into Napa, so you become a midshipman, and then there's part where you where you want to be this Blue Angel, and you literally call you literally like call Washington DC? And. Basically. It's pretty bold. I mean for you to go, you know, you jumped jumped your immediate the L, right? Yeah. Because I've, I've listened I have been in that position where I jumped my immediate supervisor to try to get something done, and I got called a loose cannon. For doing it. So, and then they said about you and I don't think I have these words, exactly right. But basically, he wears his heart on a sleeve, and you kind of basically, you know where he's at all the time. Right. I mean right. Because it is that fairly accurate. Get that. That was that was written on an application. I put in for the White House fellowship a few years ago, and that was one of my old, commanding officers, besides all the fischel, blah, blah, blah, put in he wrote that handwritten on the lead recommendation, he wears his heart on his sleeve, and I'd never heard that before. And I thought dang that's right. I really do. I'm open you. Get what you see I love that though about you. And because it comes through in the book the thing that comes through in the book is your passion, and it also comes through that, you know, what this means something to you. It's not just you're just writing a book here. You know, you talk about at the end of the book and we're starting with the end, but it's true because I think it will bring back the beginning. But at the end of the book you talk about that, you know, the whole part of being a Blue Angel whole part of doing what you do. Even row is giving back to other people. And in the importance of that, cigarette share share the importance of that, because I think that's what's the book comes together because of that. Yeah, I agree. I'm so glad you mentioned that I think that that ninth chapter is really where you get beyond what I call beyond high-performance. Of course, we wanna talk about execution excellence a cadence in execution and setting beliefs dreams and accomplishing these things. But what I learned and it started on the blues, but it was much deeper actually starters child. My parents taught me this, right? Is this purpose large itself being part of something which is much larger than yourself in sports? It's pretty obvious when you're in a team sport. Right. You can feel that. But what I realized was in flying six F, eighteens, eighteen inches apart at five hundred miles per hour. You better have a good trust with that to mate next to you. You know, by the way, I don't know if you know this, you could actually see. The cracks in the pain of the jet next at five hundred miles. That's crazy. That's crazy. But you know what? It's not dangerous. It's just inherently forgiving. That's a quote. I haven't you sit that I'm like going. Okay. Okay. Would give you brought it up. We're going to talk about it because I think people will go. Okay, look, you're, you're flying five hundred miles an hour. You're eighteen this j hold on. Let's go back at route quick with himself, because it's so important is, I think that becomes the center point, right? Once you embrace that, and you realize that you're only here to benefit others to help others, and you can do it in many different ways. I mean as an author, we get privileged to share our stories. But everybody does every single day every interaction, you, you have you have a chance to inspire impact somebody and that becomes the center point or the driving. And I think that's where our energy comes from. I know as you checking in with people this morning. I love that check in, you know, you gotta say, where's your energy come from? For me. It comes from that, and tell you something, something that you said was so profound at the end of the book in chapter nine and that was you had this interaction with a young pie. Pilot who it was with may still be with angels. I don't know but it was within less for years, and he comes to his great to meet you again. And you didn't know him and it happened to be when he was a five year old, little boy, you had shaken his hand, and had a thirty second interaction and still had his picture with you and headed on his wall. And his wife said that he that which blew you way that he still even had that picture after being married. And you said in the book, and I really hope people will listen to this. You never know what thirty seconds the impact, you will have in thirty seconds. That, that just that's powerful, it, it's amazing. Actually use it now, J give over hundred talks year. Some of the best corporations all around the world, an I n now on that story because of the impact that it not only had a me, but more importantly, what you just said in that we all have this opportunity to impact others. It's crazy. You know, it's I think we underestimate our power. I think that's the thing that comes through in your book. Is that yet? Sure, you're Blue Angel you're one of the lead of the in the whole thing. But I think the thing that comes through in your book, at least I took away from it is, we, we actually have the power within ourselves to be impactful on so many people. And we underestimate just how powerful we are. Yes. Yes. Yes. And it's kind of cool when it comes back to you, like it did me that doesn't always happen. Right. I mean, you know, the background on that story very quickly is I was in a Blue Angel debriefing, so I go back like you said earlier and, you know, the blues invite me back in, we talk about not just the blue into operational excellence, by the way. I create a maneuver called the section high alpha never before been done where the two jets fly side-by-side slow. No other team is Mabel replicated in it's still being used by the blues, which is Super Bowl that was nineteen ninety two today, so innovation standpoint. So I go back in course I wrote the SO pee on how to do that. But what we really do is, is we connect human being right? And so I'm in the debriefing room and only explain gills in angels allowed in that. And we're we go through the standard debrief. We talk about that later and then end Jake. You know, a Nate actually Nate comes up to me and Nate goes good. Gucci. It's been awhile since I've seen it, and you're right. I kinda blows me away, because I'm going, I really have never met this guy. Any shows me on his cell phone. He pulls it out. It's still on a cell phone. A picture of him as a little boy, sitting on my knee. I had my flight suit on number seven, so I knew nineteen ninety and I was in San Francisco. And then each tells me this he goes, you know, I kept this above my bed, as a kid, I kept her, but my desk in college. You're like the story says his wife later says you're not gonna believe this. He still has a liberal, but the cool part is he's a Blue Angel. And so that little seed of which, and it was a very quick interaction of what he was one of ten thousand kids. I met that year, but look at what that little seed started and. Wow. And we all can do this. It's his powerful, it is. I hate starting with the back of the book, I, but the truth of the matter is, I felt like that story was so important to understanding the rest of the book because the book leads into that story and I wanted people to know because, you know, the show's new direction, and I, and I want people to know that in their life or their career, and their business that they have an impact I, I want them to know that now how we get there, all right now now how we get there is a little bit different. But you need to know that as we start out that, you know, if you only get to listen to the first fifteen minutes of the show, I twenty minutes show, you know, John, and I are trying to courage, you. You haven't you have the ability, I'm an impact, and it doesn't take all that long. You don't you don't have to be a Blue Angel. You don't have to write a book. You have you have an impact. And I just felt that was so powerful in your book, and it came through so clearly, and so I'm really grateful that, that message came out. But let's talk about getting there now. All right. So let's talk about that. I know you're going Jay where you going with this, because it's but I have I have a method to my madness. John, I promise you, I so let's talk about getting there and one of the first things that comes right out from the very beginning and you and I had a little fun with this off the air, and that was, I'm glad to be here. Glad to be here. Right. Is, is kind of is kind of, it's kind of a belief system. Right. How it all starts. So let's talk about getting people to that point of glad to be here. What do we mean? When you say glad to be here where does that come from? And what does that mean? Yeah. I personally think it's the secret sauce, by the way. We'll, we'll talk about other ways to close the high performance zone in all this, but the secret sauce is this mental mindset that becomes the ethos of who you are. That's, that's what I think, led to be remain. So and the beautiful part about this is it could mean different things at different people for me, personally, I do what I every morning when I wake up, I do what I call my glad to be your up, and it's very simple. I say in the present moment, what am I grateful for and I'm thinking about today was easy? I'm in Sedona with my wife Caroline and I'm sitting here going. Wow. This is so precious just to be together right now. And, and then I, then I think about, well, you know, I'm healthy, I'm strong. Things are going well. And I just grateful for that. But here's the other the trick is the human brain does not care if you're actually experiencing something for the first time or you're remembering so you get extra brownie points. We all do for. Remembering things. So I always go back twenty four hours in my day. So you what happened yesterday, who is I with what was the smile is song, someone's face. You know, we have this Dacian, we're meeting with people who are trying to change obesity, in Mexico with kids. You know, and, and they call it a green stretch pen prior to get a green drink to everybody every child into stretch. End understand wisdom and just do a good thing. So, you know, we're meeting with those kinds of people, and I'm just I'm just in all, and I'm thinking about that. And then I go to my day and I thought about you, and I said, you know, I'm gonna get a chance to, to talk with Jay later on in the day in his his tremendous audience in and I'm grateful for those opportunity. So my whole point is the if you do that in its technique. Right. You will change the neuropathy of your brain. You will start to have more happy thoughts and neurons wire together called heads law neurons that wire together fire together. So it's a technique that I share in the book for happiness and. That's just a simple thing. So if you magic if you can do that happen is simple. But the technique is simple. But if you can do that, then you can apply it in any aspect of your life. You know, as you talked about the four elements there, you can actually focus into those directions and glad to be here, sometimes when I was a blue men are just glad to be alive. But we had those days, Jay man, you're just going holy crap. Can't believe I'm still after this readily meant that, okay? What it really meant was grateful for the opportunities, I have in my life of grateful for the people. I surround myself with I'm grateful for the impact that we can make on others, and it's little things. Right. That are, are powerful. So that's what it means to me. I wasn't mean to you. Listen, I am a gratitude guy. So I am somebody who I tell this to people when I speak, I say to them, because I, I could I could talk about gratitude all day because I think I believe firmly. That gratitude changes us from the inside out. And I believe that regardless of what you're going through being grateful is just a tremendous way for you to start your day, and I believe, in getting a notebook and writing out seven things that you're grateful for first thing in the morning. And the reason why believe those seven things you should write those out and you should literally right? I am grateful for and I don't care if it's a Cup of coffee. I don't care if it's the air that you breathe. I don't care if it's because you can see the grass. I don't care if it's your dog on your wife or spouse, whoever don't care right, down seven things. And then when you're done close the book, and I don't care. What happens to your day before you go to bed at night? If you've had the worst day in the world, if you open up your book and you look back at those seven things they've not changed. You're still grateful for the same seven things, and I don't care what happens the day. And so when you when you came out in this book, the books, by the way, is called. Fearless success. John Foley is our guest here on the show. When you started when you came out of the gates and sad, glad to be here. My first thought was if you said to me. Off the air few said to me, glad to be here, Jay, I'm gonna say, well, I'm glad her than you to be here. I was gonna have that we're going to have that little war about whose work grateful to be here because I know that, that being glad to be here and gratitude and being grateful is a game changer in whatever we do, and the more that you practice it, and you talk about it in the book, the more if you do it every day, if you practice this every day, you get begin to see opportunity. Yes, you start to see your life being different. You start to see your job being different. You start to see that as you describe it. What happens is. There is an internal change that happens even physiologically into our brains has law is correct. And we begin to all of a sudden change the way we view even the people that we weren't. So maybe enamored with all of a sudden, we start to see them in a little bit light. And that's. An amazing thing and I'm a big fan of gratitude and attitude. Because I believe we have a choice, every day, you heard me say that believe that we can choose that. And I think that's where you came from on this thing. You made a toss. As you're talking. I'm thinking we are so aligned by the way, a love your competitiveness like from the football field. I love the, the idea that you can change from the inside. I write in and gratitude is, is a great place to start. There's many others. We can't. Right. But it it's so powerful and it changes the way you see the world because you change. See it's coming from you the world and so you change. And that's true about lots of people. Right. The people who may be giving us struggles or challenges, you know, you start to see him in a different light. And you say, you know, they're actually helped me because I need to learn something. And so they're obviously pointing something out in me that I need to address. Right. And, and it's it changes the way you see people. But here's the really cool part, then what happens is it changes the way they see you. And all of a sudden, you've got this kind of symbiotic relationship going, where everybody becomes your your ally. And there's no CEPA. Peration between you another. It's really cool because then you start looking past, right? We, then we start looking past personalities. We start looking past people stuff, and we start looking them more inside them, as a human being and going, you know what this is a human. I need to respect because again respect is choice, and you could do whatever you want at the end of the day, I either choose to respect you don't I could do everything, right? You still have the choice of not respecting me. But now I can respect you as a human being because I'm seeing you, as somebody who is just as flawed, as I am who has just as many problems. And maybe I'm not paying attention to those things. And I need to help you get there. I need to reach out my hand to that because now you're touchable because of gratitude. Right. Everyone becomes touchable at that point. And you, you recognize that so that changes you towards everyone because nobody is on touchable. At that point when you have gratitude. Which I think is so powerful you know, from your book, is that, you know, we, we've now we're no longer separated by anything because gratitude extends past whatever barriers we've had its extends past that because we don't see those barriers anymore when you're grateful. Right. We've been there. So then one of the things that you move onto, and I and I, I kinda like going. Okay. There's so many parts to this book, right? Because I want to go, okay. There's the team part of this book where we talk about kind of the brief before you guys go out. And then there's this part of trust. And then you you're, you're going along in your kind of building thing. And then there's the debrief where we can be honest, invulnerable and have a safe place where we can be. So I, I don't know if I want to tack it in I'm literally using the word attack. And that's your how I wanna Tak this. But what I want to take a look at is, if, if I'm going about my life when Maury. Okay. We're got gratitude on the table. All right. We're starting there. That makes things really, really easy if you're going to tell somebody okay? Okay. You got gratitude on table. You got that down next step, you would say John would say, okay. Now after that, here's what you're going to do to become elite. It's going to be. Beliefs. I start with beliefs and. When I when I show in the book, is that I remember St. should teach management theory. Everyone knows this. You don't have to go to Stanford. Figure this thing out it, you vision plan you execute in feedback loop every sports team. Good business ever. Good individual. What's the vision come up with a plan? Execute a plan. Now. The feedback loop is usually the weak spot for most of us, and that's where the real growth comes from. I love your idea about growing. I used to have my defensive back coach would say every day, if you're not getting better to get worse, and bug me, by the way. But anyhow, I believe it and. And so it's belief. So what I like to talk about is, we need to start with beliefs because it's really not about a vision what you really have to do, especially as individuals. Look inside and say, well, what do I believe? What's limiting me? What's holding me back? What's, causing me stuck nece? You watch those fear based beliefs guaranteed. And what's liberating me? You know, where's my power common from a wears these opportunities an ice start there? So I start with beliefs before we get into the how okay? So what gives us example, or ma'am? I give me an example of like for you. What your belief system was that caused you to make some internal changes or new that you run your right path, or help to move along that path? Yeah, I'll go first just to experience on the blue angels. Because I always believed I could get there. But I knew is going. To be a challenge right in and I need a lot of support lot of help in the book, and I talk about being rejected three times being not physically qualify glimpse, you all kind of medical waivers not graduating high super high class, in still overcoming that in, and then getting into something that I was passionate about, and also really good at, you know, something that had the rapid, I've movement. I had had this ability of having situational awareness. So when you're upside down, you feel very normal, right? And, and in, you know, in an airplane doc biting that's really important skill. So I was able to, to grow that, but it was really more about less about me and become an instructor. That's when my growth really came when I realized that, you know, I don't know if you remember this, but I the movie top gun, you ever see that day. Oh, yeah. I'm old enough. Yeah. Yeah. I did see top gun. Yes. I did some of the real flying in that movie. And we're making talkin to be out here, real soon. But anyhow, you know, after that, I became an instructor pilot. And that's when you learn how to really help people right because you've mastered something, and this is what I try to share in the book. It's personal mastery. But then there's this team ashtray. And then they are gets to the point of. Can you actually teach it? Right. And, you know, Bella check speaks while on this, you know, I you know master yourself. Then. Be what could become world class at it, right. And then teach somebody else. Right. And so if we'll be looks like we might be working with doing patriots here coming up. The idea is, is, how do you actually create that massive change in your life. So for me when I showed up on the blues, you know, the closest I'd flown, a jet another jet was about ten feet in the movie top gun, 'cause it's hard man, you flying that close to jet going five hundred miles per hour, and that's kinda straighten level. All of a sudden, there's a team. He says, you know what? That's not good enough Gucci, by the way, my call signs Gucci and they say you know you got increase your performance three hundred percent. Guess what you got ninety days to do it. And I was like, what you kidding me? But there is a process there's a mindset to do that. Because having been put through that there, I was upside down thirty six inches from another jet right and doing stuff that you would never even think about doing, I'll give you one, quick example. So in top gun, take the best fighter pilots in the world. You put the airplane in the slow speed flight, which is a high angle attack. Slow speed fight like dogfighting. You gotta be above ten thousand feet to do this other because you need you need some out toot recovering case plane departs. So Beth fighter pilots in the world, ten thousand feet. Guess what out the toot? We do that maneuver at in the blooming, nor do two hundred feet whole, yes. Women thing about this best in the world, ten thousand feet. We're gone at two hundred feet. So something else is going on. Right. And that's what I try to show is that you gotta click into that, that ability that's inside of all, we're talking with John Foley. He is author of this outstanding book in call entitled. Fearless success. Absolutely brilliant, book, by the way. It's, it's so good, by the way, and it's available hardcover hardcover price is so reasonable, folks. I'm just telling you, he is made this so reasonable for you to purchase because I believe in my heart parts. The reason why he made this. So Ford -able to you is because he's trying to help as many people as they can. And I can tell that, that's the heart of this man, and he's got an amazing heart, and I love the book because of his heart, and but also because the information on it is so great skull field success. And he's brought to us today by, of course, our sponsor, partner in line business brokers and advisors there internationally known when it comes to selling a business. They have literally helped thousands of clients in the sale and purchase a businesses when it's time to sell your business. Contact the professionals an inland business brokers and advisors. You can learn more by going to line dot com. That's E. N. L. I G, N dot com and also Linda craft and teen real tours wherever you're out in the world. They can fight. A realtor. The best realtor for you to help you sell, or buy your next home. And if you're in the Research, Triangle park, find out why they have legendary customer service. They will give you a customer experience like no other. You can find them by going to WWW dot Linda craft. That's L. I N D A C R, A F, T dot com, and they're bring us John fully and fearless success. And we are we're, we're talking about everything from grateful to be here, and I'm glad to be here in gratitude and talking about beliefs in moving through beliefs. And we're talking about this book and how we can make an impact in their lives and be elite. Right. How do we become elite because so much of what the blue angels do is about being the best of the best matter of fact, John tells talked about his book, that there are fewer blue angels than there are navy seals. Right, my making. Yeah. Yes. That's true. Right. I mean, it's that it's that elite a group. And you know, we, we've been talking about we've talking about beliefs here and I love, I love the idea. You know what is it that you really believe, in, because I think what happens is from a core value standpoint. Right. Whether you're in business, or whether you're in your career, you need to know what those core values are in your belief system because I don't I don't I think it's hard when you just kinda decide you're gonna just fling yourself out there, if you don't really know who you are ultimately, right to, to, to be able to fit in with the rest of the world in my hitting that, right? Oh, yes. Starts inside curse. Right. Right. And so we have these believes I want I want to move into the one of the things that you talked about, is you talked about connection connectedness and alignment, and being connected and being aligned. And I was intrigued by this because so many people don't understand the power of being connected in being aligned talk about the power of being connected and be aligned as you as you see as you talk about in the book. I call it centerpoint on, but something I just wanted to as you were talking to acknowledge that ability impact others in do it for others. I get this like dreamed in inspired billion people. Right. And that's why we're doing it. You and I are doing it today. Right. And. And it starts with that belief of well, that's crazy. So how do we really do that? Right. And it gets into this alignment piece of that I like the call center point. So the first is like you use the word connect, because I think it's absolutely imperative human beings. We need to connect. I as as individuals teams humans, there's this connection it must occur and it's week sometimes teams call it chemistry you know, when you're around a team that's amazing. You say they have great chemistry relates great connections that are going on. And then there's the word outward way of looking at the alignment piece for media Lyman piece is this centerpoint, right? So you got to connect you align. Then commit by the way, 'cause you gotta take some action. Right. So in the connection, let's say, we have that with, with other team members the alignment comes like this in years, where happens when we were flying jets over. An air show, we would have a center point center point, and be the single point of focus there. We're going to make decisions often. So on an air show, it was attracted trailer truck overland boat over water. And we would have flight lines. It had one mile two mile remote checkpoints had lots of different things. But it always aligned it us aligned us to what's the center point we can make decisions on my early. My late. Do I need to speed up slowdown? That's kind of tactical way, I like to go bigger and say, okay, what your strategic center point? So you mentioned core values. I think exactly. Right. You know. So what if your core values are your setup point than what are they tend to you tend to get the stack in any lineup back in a young personal life? You know what is the center point of your life? And then as you like to do every every morning there, you know, you talk about with the physical the mental the motion the spiritual. And so you line these these things up around the center point. And I think that's the key. Most people. Sometimes don't know what the center point of their life is. I think we're fortunate. We do and, and having that then allows this alignment to, to come together new you talk about you talk about the center point. And, and by the way, which is so interesting to me, because you guys were flying so fast. And you've got the little white basically truck. I think it's a semi semi truck or something like that. Yeah. That you that, that, that you that's out there. People aren't even paying attention to it. But it's your for you guys who were flying. This is kind of, like, okay. We know where center is. Yes. Right. You know, it is and your what is it like a ten mile diameter something like that. Or. Five five miles of circle. So you're right. It's a ten mile radius Tim dang it Jay, you're right. Is tim. I'll AM. That's so cool. Don't do that, too, because I was horrible geometry. So the fact the fact that I actually got that right. Actually is actually making me feel pretty good. But you, you had to have the center point, and I think the point that you make in there and you talk about the strategic and then there's the what was the other one strategic prac- tactical, right? Because let's talk about those those two center points because it's important that we have a center point, but help us understand you. You've talked a little bit about the strategic but talked about the difference between attack on the strategic points. I mean, simply the way I like to say is strategic or the big things. Right. So what's really important in your life? Right. Tactical is is like, how do you get the next? Success in, in, in your business deal today. Right. So tactical could be simple. I like to say when I speak to my business audiences will let us the customers the center point. And then you say okay, well, what is it gonna take to? Let's say that great customer experience, which you're delivering right now. Right. And you say, okay, well, takes a lot of things in business, this sales marketing is operations as add menu a lot of people need to come together in order have that on on our flights. You know to make it very clear. We had three mile two mile one mile checkpoint. So as I'm coming at my opposing booing. Don't bumper was his name and spurt to two guys used to oppose called us the posing lead solos? We'd come at each other thousand miles per hour closure, and we were going mile every four and a half seconds inclusion. Okay. And if we're just one second off when we crossed at centerpoint, we're gonna. By two football fields case. So that's the little bit of precision that we were looking for, and the only way you can get to that, as you gotta know, your center point is, and then have some checkpoints along the way because we're constantly adjusting. And that's true in light. You know, the minute you get up, you gotta start making some adjustments. I mean you may have a plan. It's good to have a plan, but things change. Right. And so what I like talk about two in the book is, you know, how do you lead through change? Not just react to. Okay. I, I love this whole idea of tactical and strategic center points. Love I love that. But there was one thing as a psychological professional, which is what I do for businesses, as well and speak and write. And that type of thing like you do when of the things I like to talk about and you bring this up in the book, you don't use exactly these terms, but you do in a sense, is the whole idea that how powerful habit formation can be because when we develop when we're able to develop when habit we're no longer thinking about it. Right. When we can do, then we can start focusing on something else that maybe even more important. So let's, let's talk about that for a second because I don't think people understand how important it is to develop that practice that, that routine over and over, again, till it becomes such a habit, so that you can allow yourself to focus about that a little bit more. Yeah. I think. Back to it really happens in all our lives. Right. I like the sun conscious. Competence ability, right to get to where, you know, long after think about doing something you do it in the great example is riding a bike for the first time. Right. When your kid I you're thinking about stuff, and I don't think you're doing announce same thing with driving a car, right? So same thing with, with elite performance like a jet coming at each other. You know, at that Dow's miles per hour upside down when I'm first learning it. Okay. Yes. I need to have a game plan. So what what's our objective? What's the desired outcome? What's the intent? We wanna put into this. Okay. And then you have you taught. So on the blue angels. We have a standard operating procedure says, here's where your power setting might need to be. Here's the attitude. You talk about, you know, what it takes to create the manure. That's not enough. Right. That's just, you know, verbal are written, and then what you gotta do is you gotta find somebody who's expert who has done this. That's why it's so powerful to listen to you, as you talk about the mental aspects of the psychological aspects, because you can learn for someone. And so that's the next part is is that, that kind of student teacher role in. It's not a negative thing. You know, a master in an learner, right? And so you learned technique items because that's what comes through, like in our interview, there's certain small technique items that hopefully people are picking up right? Were able to share with them? And now, those are suck and its the subtleties that make the big difference. And then it comes to repetition. So you gotta you gotta get unconscious competence only gonna get to. There is through repetition and you wanna make sure you're repeating what works 'cause if you repeat what doesn't work guess what you're going to get that habit, going to right? So the idea of, of that repetition, and then I like to talk about triggers. Right. Because I which critical is be able to snap yourself into this high-performance zone. You know, to get to where a habit because if you have a habit, that means you got some unconscious competence going on. But how can you create it on the spot? And that's what I do through trip. So I'm going to just have. Psychological fund UK with logic with your book, because it triggers I loved the, this idea of triggers. I'm gonna I'm gonna now I'm gonna make geeky. So this is Pablo dog stuff is basically what we do is we're creating an association with something that triggers whatever the responses, right? So we're gonna take we're take some sort of stimulus here. Okay. For lack of a better word. Right. And we're took a stimulus and we're going to we're going to continuously pair that so that what we do is every time, we do this particular stimulus stimulator. Selves in some way, we're going to have this meeting response. So I think when and I love that, by the way, because I, we do it unintentionally habitually. I'll give you a bad example of how we do this. People who are smokers. Right. What do they do every time they eat? What do they do? They smoke right after the it's, it's just it's a trigger people. They people who are smokers do not even real recognize it. If they do the can't figure out that if they would just break that it would help reduce smoking intake, but they don't they don't recognize that they've created a tripper by eating so they smoke. Right. And so what happens? Right. So when they stopped smoking would typically happens is they continue to eat and eat any which is why they buy. You see something smokers put on weight because they've now traded went for the other we can do that. What you describing the book as we could do that positively. Right. So if I want to get myself in the right mindset, all right? I got now start paring just like people in a bad way paired food with smoking. Now, I've got a pair, some sort of trigger with me more you talk about it in your morning routine. Right. As soon as your left foot, right? Foot hits the floor the left by I make it the left. The left foot hits the floor, right? Because you probably sleep on the right side of the bed, or maybe the left side. Right side. Anyway, so, well, I'm just thinking how you get up and never. No. Trust me. I've never seen John in bed. Okay. I just want to make that cleared everybody just to guessing. Okay. That was supposed to be funny. There's a technique that I tell you why do the left, it's not about what side of the Benham on. I actually it's a trigger the tell myself because it's not normalcy. I rather get up with my right foot. It's more natural. So I purposely take the unnatural element. It's like when I hug people, and by the way, do this, all the time, I always hug him left to left heart to heart. Right. And it's a little bit unnatural, but I do that for very good reason. And that is to remind myself at least wanna get out of bed left foot four when it hits the floor. I say this, this is a magical day. This is not normal. Everything is magic. Everything is incredible. And it, it should feel a little uncomfortable at first because then it snaps you into a higher state. See this is this is exactly what I'm talking about these triggers. Right. Or the, you know that were conditioning ourselves to do to get to that next level can be as simple as every damn get up with. Foot and Susan, my left would hits the floor. This is women to do because every day that you do that it's just awesome becomes automatic. And then when, when it becomes automatic Ulsan, okay, let's go back when it becomes automatic. And you hit your left foot on the floor, and your start automatically your mind is engaged to go. I'm going to be grateful today. I am grateful that I'm up today. I am grateful for this, right. And you've already started before you even made your first step. You've already started in a day of gratitude. And, and so this is the beautiful thing about your book. I hope people understand the practicality of what you're doing to help them live their lives in a better way because what you've just done here is you've given people an amazing, psychological simple breakthrough. That says if you do that every day left-foot hits and every day, you get up and before you get standing, you've already been grateful for that day. And what? A powerful. What a powerful thing, and we could create this with anything. That's, that's the beauty of your book. I think when the beautiful things about fearless success is that we can, we could create this week? Create these triggers with anything, you know, I mean, right? Have have your have a Cup. Have your favorite Cup right? And every time you pick up your Cup of coffee in that Cup right? It triggers you to say I'm going to say you know what? This is going to be an amazing day the people in my life. I'm going to inspire an influence. I'm going to be powerful. I'm gonna motivate and I know that I've been given this date for a purpose. Right. What if you said that every day you grabbed your favorite coffee Cup? Well tell you what would happen it would change you because it's gonna trigger you every time you look at that Cup. And every time you see somebody else's coffee Cup. Guess what you're gonna do? You're gonna do the exactly same thing. I think that's the beauty of your book, by the way, I love the way you had embraced in expanded on it. Everything you're saying, we are still in line. Oh, and I'm a hugger you kidding me all six feet, five inches. I'm the. I'm a huge hugger. I have the same way we're talking with. We're talking with John Foley, author of Blue Angel by the way, an author of bestselling author of this book. Fearless success vailable Amazon favorite bookstore, by the way, when we do the right up of this show, everybody. Right. And you can wherever you're gonna listen to this, whether it's tunes. Iheartradio, Spotify Stitcher, tune in radio in one hundred five other places you can possibly listen to this. There's always a write up of every author I do. And I will be writing John fully you will be able to go to his website. You can learn more about John. You can hire John. He is an outstanding speaker as well as an author. He is inspiring. And he's inspiring for all ages. He's not just for adults. He's inspiring children and kids, and he talks about that in his book as well. And we're, we're going fearless success is what we're going through. And he has been so gracious to give me time to talk with him about this book. I wanna talk to you about trust. Because trust is a. Very difficult world word in today's world. And it's it's, it's a hard word. And the reason why is because. People want to people people don't want to trust. I see it every day. I'm I don't trust this person. I don't trust that personnel. I don't I'm not gonna give this person trust. I'm not going to trust. Let's talk through that a little bit because you have an idea of trust in a business sense. And I get the feeling that you have an idea of trust in a personal sense. So based on what I read, let's talk about trust in the business sense. I was it take to trust someone? Because you, you have to be an environment with your fellow pilots. Urine environment were at eighteen inches away from each other, and also crossing at a certain point where you're just, you know, you know, so close travelling at four and a half seconds per mile coming at each other. There's a lot of trust that has to be involved with that. How do we get there? How do we get to the trust? Well, I love it. I think there's different layers trust. Right. There's different ways to get there. So in the book, I talk about the three CS trust. I is competency. So I wanna know if that other person's competent, right? Especially at the high levels at were doing and, and we won't work on that job skills trying to get better at something. But that's very basic. Okay. And usually when you let's say abroad into the blues, stay with the blues, but any organization, you know, there's a certain level of trust that is given to somebody because of maybe where they came from what their background is on. And again, it's competency in interviews. That's very basic. Okay. I think you have to earn trust every day. See that's the key. You have to end small things matter. You know, especially in trust. Right. And it's the little things if I know if I can count on. You on little things I can count on you on big things by way. That's scriptural. There's big stuff in there. Right. But the idea here is that on the blues, you know, if we had a selection process, we, we had a good sense of, of someone skillset. That's not hard. Okay. What's hard is the personal dynamics that come into these plays and in into our lives. Right. So, so the competencies start, you gotta get to a level of, of commitment eventually right? So it's competency commitment. And so I wanna know. Are you really all in seed act for the trust really is in a relationship, right? I wanna know you know, are you all in? It could be a personalization of giving business relationship and end the small things matter. And then what happens is consistency comes it. And I think that's the key because if I'm gonna fly eighteen inches from you Jay, I gotta know that you're gonna be consistent, okay. I gotta know how. How you're gonna react under pressure. What's going to happen in turbulence and I don't mean just turbulence in the air turbulence in your life. So that's the most critical one and that you have to build it doesn't happen in day one, you have to build the ability to have this consistent trust. And then we do it through verbal nonverbal contracts, which we can talk about in a minute. But I wanna give you a chance to respond to those. Yes. So there's there's two things that I wanna wanna kinda respond to hear that. I see the first is it's my job. I believe, and I think this is what I pulled from your book. And I think this is what you're saying effect me if I'm wrong, but it's my job to earn. Jay has to earn John trust. Right. But it's my job to choose to give you trust. Is what is so meaning that you're right? I, I have I have to earn I it's on me to earn that trust every day, but it's also on me to choose to give you that trust back in. So when I when I started thinking about what you're saying. I was this is how I read it. I was like, going, well, okay. So typically, we would say you have to earn you know, John would have to earn my trust, actually he doesn't. It's, it's on my job to earn John's trust. And, and then John chooses to trust me or not. So I'm the one who, who needs to make sure that I have I have done my work homework to be competent. And, and that I have done my work than I am going to be completely committed. And then I'm all in, and then I have got to be consistent for John sake. Right. And then John chooses to, to trust me because I'm trying to do everything I can to be those two. Things three things versus. I think would happen to the mistake that happens is that we go, okay, you gotta be those three things before I can trust you. And I think I, I think the way I read it, and maybe I'm wrong. But I read it as man. I gotta be these three things I've, I have got to do this every day. It's on me. It's my responsibility. I'm the one who. And I think if we got that I if because we're always, so looking at the other person, you got to be all these things. But wait start with you. Right. Which is a core of your book. I felt was like man. I've got to become more competent. I've got to be more. There's, there's so much that I don't know. I've got to I got to know more. I've got to be more m I really committed to the people I same committed to or am. I kind of flimsy on that. And then, and then how consistent am I really and I found those personally, challenging to me because I was like, what is my wife? Think does my wife is my wife saying to me. The she know every day that I'm working hard at our marriage, and I'm going to give that effort, and I'm gonna do what I need to do, because I want to be as competent as I can't be as husband twenty some odd years later, you know, am I really do? I demonstrate her commitment and m I doing what I need to do to be consistent in our relationship together. And so, because it that's on me, not on her and that, that spoke to me, so deeply and so clearly in the book, because it was so powerful. Yeah. A love Jada way you're framing. Absolutely concur. With what you said, I think of an analogy that I found in my life is when you point the finger at someone else, there's three of them pointing back, right, and that's hard, sometimes because it's so easy to put somebody else. Right. And I think what I'm hearing you say I agree at thousand percent. Is it starts with you? It starts on the inside. I write expecially trust. And as you were talking would hit. My head is a lot of people. Let's say it's a work environment say, well, you know, you don't trust me in thing there is no wait a minute. You gotta earn my trust. You know. So, you know go hit earn that. But at the same time, I love what you said is, it's on me though, to give. Right. So I give an earned and I think they go, they, they reinforce each other that when they break. Right when one of doesn't happen, that's when it breaks. No, I, I agree with you. And this is the thing about fearless success that one of the things many things I love about this is I found it personally challenging right. I found that you were challenging me in to going, okay. Well, who are you? What do you really believe you are? You are you the type of person that people wanna trust. Are you the type of person that people can trust are you? Are you the type of person? Who is I'm glad to be here. Everyday are you the type of person who you know is thinking, you know, both has your center point in your thinking both tactically and strategically? You know, an and I found that a challenge, I found you saying to me, asking, literally, this is how I heard it. John was you're asking me. Well, are you say yes or no? And I was like, well I got. Okay. I got I got some reevaluation. Do what are your habits like j what are your triggers like Jay? How are you waking up every morning, Jay, right? What where's your excellence today, Jay? How excellent you going to be today? Jay. Right. That's how I heard the book, right? And I think people, I think people went in again, I'm holding up this book for people who are going to be the podcast can't see. It's called fearless success. It's got his golden helmet on, and it's a book is amazing Lee challenging, and it's I found it personally challenging I found it also to be enlightening, and stimulating in practical guide. To not let just living your life, but your career in your business as well. So let's go on. Let's go on with the next piece of the trust. Pe- sorry. I it really overwhelm me because I got to be honest. I'm you know, me, I'm one of those people who is going to who is going to be completely vulnerable and transparent these things because I heard it that way. So let's let's move on from that trust. Because that trust for you turns into a debrief at the end of the day of having a safe environment where we can be honest with each other about what went rent not just went went wrong. But went went, right? Let's talk about that. Well, it's the critical element. And I'm glad we you tied it in with the trust because it's in the book you know, there's a diagram, right? And it goes from trust to debrief just like you're doing. And, and that's where it's critical because that's where you reinforce, or in this case identify gaps. Right. So reinforce, what's going well. Or identify gaps. And it's what's actually leash done. It's least done in the business world all the time. They we typically, the only time we do it is, when there's a problem in that's not what I'm trying to show here in the book, because that does not create a safe environment for trust if you, if you only debriefing, when there's problems, you're gonna get problems K. So the idea that I was trying to show is we have to have a tool of mechanism and I call this tool or mechanism the glad to be our debrief the allows you to assess and reassess how did it go? And so we can do this personally. We can do this as as a team working with a lot of the the sports teams now because they get this game films is a good example. But there's a technique to how you do that. Right. And so I most people don't do it. All right. Most leaders don't do it do it when, when there's a problem and I'm trying to change that mindset will. Here's the thing, right? I mean if anybody's had an accountability a real accountability partner. All right. A really count ability partner. Just doesn't hold you accountable for the credit you do. They're also supposed to be the encourage or that says while that was really good. Congratulations. Right. And I think the again, one of the things I pulled from this whole debrief, and we all need to be debriefed, by the way on our good in our bad. I mean we gotta get a temperature. I every time you were writing. I'm like guy get a temperature myself I need somebody to give me a temperature my heart and my cold and my good and my bad, and my, you know, but I need both I can't just have one, and I thought, man, this is so powerful for people. They don't understand the power that the losing by not having a debrief on a regular basis. Whether you're in the team setting or whether it's individually in, in your life is they're losing some power and even yourself. I mean I do I'm in a constant state of debrief on myself, you know. How did I treat that person? What did what can I do better? I love though that we're celebrating the victories in that to me the key. I like I like to say, yes, a lot. You know, I like to say thank you a lot. So when things are going, well, internally, I'm going. Yes, where I'm going, thank you. You know and, and reinforcing that things are going well at the same time, if there's something that I need to fix fix it. And actually, that's one of the, the sayings I have, which I call five dynamics is you say, you know, I'll fix it. And it's one thing you can say to yourself, but it's really powerful when you verbalize this to another individual week did this on the blue angels, every time we flew we went around the table, and we started with what we call general safe, generally how my feeling because I wanna know how people feel okay we didn't get into specifics right away. I just wanna know. How do you feel do you feel good about the day or bad about the good about the flight bad about the flight? I want a. Feeling statement. And then what we did is we created we have standards. So we gave people the opportunity that if they were out of standards before someone pointed out to you bring up yourself and that builds trust. Because when people can bring up, you know, I was laid on this report, that's a for right? But there's little things in our lives that we can bring up and you powered, and then what you say is a fix it. That's the count ability, actually what really turns into his personal responsibility, which I find way more powerful than countable you have when you personally responsible. And then you always end with a positive statement at, at statement for me. Glad to be. Well, by the way, do you know that unite been talking for over an hour? I noticed that. And. In in there for this. They all are. I've tell you, you should see people on Facebook hanging in here. Just just watch people coming in. I'm watching all the Facebook folks just watching and listening. And I know that my podcast seriously. They hold on. It's amazing. I could go on for hours with you. I've had so much fun today. I am so sorry. I didn't mean to go over like this, that wasn't about my attention. I just lost track of time. I'm going to be completely honest, and transparent debrief. We learned, I had no idea. But I am grateful that you were willing to give the time. And, and thank you. And you know, we've just gone. Let's go full circle here and before we end here, and that is. You know, we started with that we all have it within our power to, to have an impact on others. Thirty seconds is more than enough to impact a life and you walked us through fearless success. And from, you know starting out with I'm glad to be here right in gratitude and ending it with trust which is alternately. You know what you what you gain when you impact the lives of others. Right. We, we don't seem to be able to do it without some sort of sense of trust, which is how we come full circle and the show is called a new direction. And because we try to help people find a new direction in their life or their business or the career. And so if you were to leave the folks with a new direction, what would John Foley, author of Blue Angel author fearless success? What would he say? Well, I just look inward. Right. And the idea of what is your centerpoint? What's really important to you and to make it to tie that in whatever that is tie that in to how it's helps others. So this purpose large itself, I guarantee you, there's a connection there. And when you can discover the connection of what inspires, you and what benefit that will bring the others, you're on that new direction, and you'll have the energy this even more important with the glad to be here, mindset. You know, the gratitude mindset you'll have the energy to stick to it. When you come up with all the challenges that, that are going to be there for life. And it's about helping others. It's about being also very explicit with yourself and challenging yourself to be a little bit better. Like, wait the way you started this, this whole thing with, I'm not trying to get you to ten. If you rate yourself as a four, let's get the fought. Right. And then it's this continuous incremental improvement. All of a sudden one day you're gonna go. Holy crap is awesome. And that's my hope is it. Everybody has this all in glad to be your mindset. That's awesome, stay with John. Lays gentleman, John fully author Blue Angel. Fearless success is the book pick it up at Amazon pick it up at your local bookstores it's, it's going to be everywhere if they don't have. I got a special offer. I didn't tell you, if they want to go to the our website. It's John Foley, Inc, INC dot com. Go to the store. We've bundled a breaking belief barrier booklet, it's, it's a small booklet kin with the book for the same price that you'll get it at the at the at the stores now definitely go to make it easy on yourself. But if you want to we, we got an extra offer just for your group. So this is awesome. So here's what we're gonna do. So I'm John, thanks for saying that because here's what we're going to. We're going to be posting on the blog post. That's associated with the podcast. So for those who go to J as dot com and also, whether I tunes iheart it's going to be on their twos. Well, we're going to post John fully. F O, L, E Y, Inc dot com. So it's John. J. O H N, fully F. O L, E Y. I n c dot com we're going to post that up there so you can get take advantage of the free offer that John has the offer that John has given us. In addition to, and it's the book is just outstanding folks, I'm telling you, it's a game changer. It's a life changer. It's a business changer. It's a career changer. It's an amazing book and he's been brought to us today by who else. But our great sponsors in line business brokers, and advisors in lines internationally known they represent profitably privately held companies with gross annual revenues in excess of a million dollars. They deliver the highest market value in the shortest amount of time with complete confidentiality that is they're registered trademark pokes registered trademark. You can learn more about going to end line dot com. It's E. N. L G, N dot com. We think just now and his folks sponsoring to show as well as Linda craft team realtors doesn't matter where you're at in the world. And if you are in the Research, Triangle park, Raleigh, Durham Chapel Hill area, you can meet them face to face. Find out what their legendary customer experiences like when it comes to buying or selling your home, check them out at Linda craft dot com, WWW dot. L. I. N the. A. C R, A, F, T dot com, and they brought us today, folks. That was the show, the show has been any John has been outstanding. I'm so grateful for him. I cannot express an grateful for all of you. You people have made something that I didn't even know was dream become a dream come true. And I cannot express to you everywhere in the world. Seventeen countries Israel India, Ireland, Italy, the UK all of you, and I know I miss so many different continents. Thank you so much all over the world for downloading the show, and making this what it is. I cannot express my gratitude enough for you. And the United States you've been so kind to me, and so gracious to me, and I think all of you from the little towns to the biggest cities you've all been made this show. Great. And so I'd say it every week and I end this way, with every show in that is folks, be inspired. Find way to be inspired whether that that starts with gratitude. I hope for. You because when you are inspired, you're going to inspire someone else. I promise you will. Even if it's a smile to the local person who's checking out your groceries, you're going to inspire someone in that in turn has is inspire someone else would we do that? We have the opportunity to change this world in amended away, and I great before, and I look forward to talking to you all soon, we will talk to you later shower one. Got you know you cancer. The new things on Jay. You can find this to. Teams. Mind. A new show. New Dr ranch. The new. Brand new day. Two. Oh.

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#561: Get With the Program

The Art of Manliness

59:00 min | 1 year ago

#561: Get With the Program

"This episode of the art of Manley's podcast is brought to you by bear bear bear. They make aspirin that help. Save lives during a heart attack protects the heart of a family but they do more than that. From advances in health innovations divisions in agriculture bears advancing sites for a better life at bear. This is why we science Brett Mckay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness. podcast all of us are part of teams at work and in our communities immunities even our families our teams and most of US service both members and leaders. Stamps Alvin creepy. Our best in both roles my guest as spent his career gaining on the ground answers to these questions through his experience as a marine special operators in the military any leadership trainer of corporate athletic teams as a civilian name is Erika public. He's the founder of the team and Leadership Development Company the program and the CO author of a book with the same name. Day on the show. Eric can I take a deep yet. Punchy dive into the keys of team and leadership development and how these principles can be applied to. Whether you're Lena family a sports team for business. We'd be conversation discussing the biggest problem. Eric season the teams he works with. Why resolving most of these issues begins with the definition of core values? And how someone can figure out what their core values are Eric. The difference being goals and standards white teams focused more on instilling standards and holding team members accountable to them. We discussed the difference between being kind and being nice white. Leading by example is insufficient. How Eric defines hard work and the two excuses you to eliminate from your life after shows over check at our show notes at a whim dot? Is Slash the program. Tehrik joins me now via clear. CAST DOT IO A right eric capital Iq. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Brett through the CO author a book called the program which I really enjoyed but before the program was a book it was an is a business. You started train. Athletic incorporate teams on how to be good teammates and good team leaders. How and why did you start the program? I'm the business. And why did you turn the lesson. You've gotten from Your Business into a book yet. Thanks so well. I was born and raised in northeastern Connecticut. My that was a policeman. And my mom is a schoolteacher. I always kinda start with them because we are all. I believe a some of our experiences but but boy. I don't believe in luck but except when it pertains to the family you happen to be born into Oh and my parents were were great parents and had and continue to have a huge impact on my life but born and raised in northeastern Connecticut. They get very fortunate was a three sport. Varsity athlete in high school went on to play college. Lacrosse at the US Naval Academy and then was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps. I served for eight years as both an infantry officer in then in Marine Corps Special Operations Perations as a platoon commander for Fifth Platoon First Force Reconnaissance Company after eight years on active duty. I was honorably discharged. Charged I left active duty. I attended the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business and then shortly thereafter founded the program and that was twelve years ago. Now the program the company my company and when I first started the program I had the opportunity opportunity to work with Harvard. Men's Lacrosse I had one of the last things I did. In the Marines was I served as admissions missions director in admissions director at at back at the Naval Academy. And when I just got there on that Torah duty couple across players had gotten in trouble and the head coach at the time called me in my office and said Hey cap can you you come down here and just where these guys out for a couple of days so every day when classes ended I would get the Lacrosse team in just work them now I would do the workout with them. But just doing Marine Corps Force RECON type of workouts just to wear them out will now L. Fast forward ten years later of just founded the program and the assistant coach on. That team was just named the head coach of the Harvard. Men's Lacrosse team. And he called me one day and said Cap I just took over one of the softest teams in the softest sports on the softest campus is right and hake you come come down here and just do what you did with my guys what you did with the guys at Navy years ago I said yeah sure so went down there and that's what I did now from that first first team twelve years ago the program our company has has really changed and I take great pride in saying that I founded did the program but I cannot say quick enough that I would be out of business if it was if it were still by. We have made it what. It is my teammates. I the program have made the company the program what it is today and but from that first event I had called out as I was working out with the team. I called out their team. Captains just just to lead a few of the exercises and these are great young men but they were just bad at communicating. What exercises we were going going to do? And then leading the team so from that first event I got the idea that I don't think these guys really need another workout guy. They've all at the college level. Everybody's got a strength and conditioning coach. But boy they really need some help with leadership. Development in the coaches is due to will from that first event now twelve years later on our first year business. We worked with three men's LACROSSE teams. I called coaches. I played for against or width breath. Now after twelve years in business we work with more than one hundred and sixty collegiate and professional athletic teams in major corporations throughout North America. Mark annually is so it's not beliefs. It's what we know from working through our own personal experiences but that also working with one hundred and sixty teams a year are. Are Those keys for us to be our best. That's what I wrote the book myself. And my co author Jake Macdonald at one of our lead instructors with the program would he and I wrote the book. About what are those keys to ensure mission success on a consistent basis in what I love about this the Basically Take the principles that you've been formulated in seeing and showing people and putting in the book while about this knowing that not only applies to sports teams or corporations. It's applicable the families people who are leaders in the community groups not profit organizations it covers. There's lots of domains Brett. You mentioned families. There's no there's no team a more passionate about than my family so there's never been a more true statement than little kids little problems. Big Kids big problems as just as parents as leaders of our family if we address so many issues at a young age age they never manifest themselves as your children join other teams later on in life. I mean there's if if if you were to say hey what's from this book who should read this book. The most I would say parents. I got a lot out of it like as soon as I finished the book last week we have A. We have a family meeting once a week in my family where we over. What's going on in our family schedule? We also do my wife and I tried to teach them sort of short lessons usually five minutes and I use the principal from your book. We'll talk about it here in a bit standards and goals difference between the two in the kids seem to it makes my data here. Yeah see my kids really resonate with that. Well so let's talk. You've been doing this for twelve years during that time in working with different teams and organizations. What are the biggest problems you see with team leadership in team cohesion over and over again? Yeah well bright you just I hesitate only because boy. I wish it could be just one thing right if it whenever a team is under performing in in somebody asks that coach or that business leader or or parent. Hey coach what what needs to change will man if it was just one thing. Oh boy we could do that real easy we could do it right now. We can change that one thing. It's usually a combination of things. Okay but where we start art in where we challenge people to start if you want to have a world class team a world class family athletic team school oh classroom band or corporation start with having clearly defined core values. What does it mean to be one of us because that right there is what's important to you? It's it's the it's the fiber of who we are is just what our core values as an organization whether that organization be a family as I said an athletic team a corporation in the reason why it's so important to figure out what our core values are as a team. Is that getting back to what you just referenced. Standards thirds every team that we work with that were privileged enough to work with to include families. Every parent gives their child goals. Every coach has goals every business leader has goals we give our teams hundreds goals and we should because performance matters performance matters. My son comes home from school. Tells me a daddy taught winning. It doesn't matter if you win or lose hold on one second it. It doesn't matter so so you mean to tell me that when you are pinning somebody when you wrestle. He's eight when you're pinning somebody that when you're wrestling it doesn't feel any differently than when you're getting pinned D don't don't don't tell me. Winning doesn't matter better it matters but not at the expense of our core values of being who we say we are as an example. The the only thing I talked to my son my daughter's two and a half and we're starting to talk to her about it but I dropped my son off at school this morning as I leave. Leave Him we go over. Hey Buddy what are we going to be today. We'll be selfless tough and disciplined Daddy. What selfless mean it means? We put the team. I I what is tough mean. It means we do. What's right? Not What's easy in what is disciplined being. It means that we do what we say. We're going to do. Great have a great day buddy. I'm proud of you. Those core values. Yes he he. We're GONNA talk talk to him about his report card in his grades in all of that Yeah but look I would rather him be selfless tough and disciplined in take a really challenging class with it he gets a BSN than just talk to him about getting as bread. I would say having clearly defined core values is is just a muss plus for consistent world class performance. Now I can see a lot of organizations. I've seen it where they don't even know what their core values are and so it creates a lot. Your core values determined every other action that the organization takes when you don't have those core values people in the team like why. Why do we exist? Why are we even here sure? What's the point of it and see disengagement resentment but as soon as you put those core values in place people have a mission that they're going to start going after that's right right that's right and we feel that core values are even more important than a mission because missions can change? I mean in the military. You're given one hundred missions. They change constantly who we are. That's that's the foundation. That's the bedrock that regardless of the mission. If we are this we're GONNA be okay and by the same token as you mentioned earlier standards. Will we give our we give our kids lots of goals. Hey get as all of this stuff but as important or what are our standards okay goals or what we want to achieve standards standards are how we're going to behave. While we achieve those goals failure to reach a goal will ris attack it tomorrow failure to reach a standard that carries a consequence because standards are just about behaviors being selfless. That doesn't require my son Axel to have talent scoring twenty points in a game that requires some level of town but putting the team first. That's just a choice. He has to make well. If you don't score twenty will ris attack tomorrow if that's that's a goal for you if you're choosing not if you're choosing to be selfish okay. Well then there's going to be a consequence of that because you chose to be selfish. Okay so your core value your standards come from your core values. Let's start here. How do you figure out what your core values are is is is is it? Yeah that I see something going on there because you hear a lot of business books about management's like a mission statement here your values and all the Times you end up picking core. Values are more like window-dressing rights. Like what you'd like to be like what you'd like others think you have been aren't really core values. So how do you ensure that your core values are actually your core values yet breath. Thank you so much for asking that question. I I can't even tell you how often were walking into a lobby of Kline China Nuclei and the first thing that we see our posters or signs up of their a fourteen core values but by definition core cannot mean fourteen number one number two we then companies then define those core values to look like a wine reading list. The organizations try. Try to be everything to everybody instead. Determine what your non-negotiables are that's core the non-negotiables negotiable those non-negotiables our core values. What are non-negotiables as a team? What it means to be US three? If you want to argue for things okay argue for realize there is a reason why there are three fire teams in every squad three squads as in every platoon three platoons in every company three companies and every battalion. You get the point our ability to control but more importantly importantly remember three groups of three is higher than four so the way we can determine what those this core values are by and large we are who we are by the age of nine indefinitely set by the age of twelve now yes. There's there's huge great life cataclysmic events that happened to some individuals. Were people change dramatically after that but but by and large we are who we are by the age of nine indefinitely by the age of twelve so determine your core values do everything you possibly can to determine what they are what it means to be US or in the leaders case what it means to be you because what it means to be you. Ultimately is the core values of your organization. Thankfully once you do it. It's not going to change every single year. You you are who you are by the agent nine indefinitely by the age of twelve. How can you do it? There's a couple of different ways. We provide one of those ways in our book the program. There's a list of forty different core values. What we suggest you do is just to take a look at that page age? Give yourself five minutes to select the ten value. WHO's that mean the most to you then at the end of those five minutes then just stay focused on your list of ten? Give yourself one minute to get rid of five of them in. Make sure you put yourself on the clock. Is You want to feel pressure while you're doing it. Then give yourself ten seconds at the end of that minute give yourself ten seconds. In at the end of that ten seconds when the Buzzer Goes Rozov. You should have just your top three then than take a few moments. Look at your top three should three before should four be three. You should should you switch the order of them. That's one of the ways to do it. Another way is to simply spend end as much time as you possibly can thinking about who you are. What are your greatest strengths? As as the people who know you the best who love you the most. Maybe it's a parent spouse a business partner a cope your executive team and just write down what you think it means to be you and then have other people give you feedback. See if they agree with you or not. Those are a few ways to determine women. would our core values are but remember that our mission your organization's mission Cannon Bannon probably will change who you are doesn't the standards that reinforce those core values on a day-to-day basis. It's simply not enough Brett to say as as I've been using the example of the program. Selfless toughened discipline. I mean how. How often do we hear companies companies? Say Oh we're a family having family on a T.. Shirt does not make you a family. It means you have a t shirt that has family written on it. That's true for any any core value. Your culture is not what you have written on a poster or sign or a t shirt. Your culture is who you are every day. We have the first determine what our core values are. The leader does that but then we have to determine what the standards are that we we are going to reinforce those core values on a daily basis depending on the team in a host of other factors that could be the leader the executive team the coaching staff. And what what we suggest is the team itself or at least the warriors on that team determining what the standards are going to be for the team that reinforce forced those core values. Okay so I want to go back to this idea standards so you okay. I like this idea. Goals or about performance standards about behavior. Your standards come from your core values values and you say that standards come with consequences. What are those consequences like? Maybe in your own family were maybe in another organization Brett we whoa we constantly hear I mean from May throughout North America not just the US to North America. Everybody wants to talk to us about kids these days and it always sounds like you know The kids these days and there's always these hundreds of negative attributes about the kids. These days is we highlight to every single person that talks to us about that. Stop blaming the kids. It's it's our fault. The kids these days are no different than they were when we were the kids these days when our grandparents were the kids these days the kids. These days are the same who's different. We're different. Parents are different coaches are different. Business leaders are different. Teachers are different. That's WHO's different in. How are we different? We give a again just like when we were the kids these days. Yes we give our kids lots of goals but but never any standards standards again our or behavior based this is how you are expected to behave in. If you don't behave this way there are consequences in no. Oh it doesn't mean okay. Well you get another try at it or three to one. No we have goals. We have standards. This is what you're expected to perform. This is how you're expected to behave if you can't do it then again there's consequences by the same token token if you do achieve what you're supposed to achieve but at the same but more importantly behave this way. There will be benefits for you. All of us perform best within that structure. It's our job. As parents coaches teachers business leaders to provide that structure to the kids. These days we don't we don't in it starts with parents. Parents are are in. I don't WanNa say this. You Know Jen us as as a generalization because God I have the privilege of coaching a couple of sports that my son plays in by and large. I love the kids in by and large. I love their parents as well but there are numerous parents that care more about being good friends with their kid then they do about being mom and dad. I I WANNA have the absolute best relationship. I possibly can with both of my children. That relationship has called dad not friend maybe over time over years it will evolve into that but not now. They've got enough rinse they've got one dad in one mom too but what we're talking about myself here so they've got one dad and I'm GonNa fill that role for them in as their dad. I'm going to give them Kudos when they're behaving the way they're supposed to behave and there will be consequences when they don't behave the way they're supposed to behave well. I think one of the tricky things about standards and I think why people parents teachers organizations like to talk about goals is because with goals. It's easy to track you either. You you either reach the goal or increased a percentage right. There's a number you can attach to it standards with around behavior. It's a little trickier sometimes. Right like how do you tell your son your son be tough. Well how do you know you. It's tough when you're not with them all the day like you know what. What situation did he show toughness? Like how do you do that. Evaluation with other either a family member or even a member on your team on whether they're meeting that standard. That might be a little more squeegee than say a hardline goal. Great question great question. Let's talk about selfless before practice. Whatever the sport we talk about selfless tough and disciplined at the end of practice at the end of the game at the end of a game? Let's use game boy we. I've got a lot of examples of this. I've seen it personally countless times. Children income off the playing field as soon as they come off the playing field parents or saying only God. That was an amazing goal. That you had it was just awesome. Okay Okay what do you think your child believes you value a goalscoring. That's what your child believes you value instead at the end of the game. We're actually comes off the field. We talk about. What are we supposed to be out there today? X. Selfless tough and disciplined. Daddy all right what selfless awfullest mean. It means we put the team. I did you today. I think I did that. Okay tell me how did you put him. I well when I came to the sideline I I you know when you sub to meow POUT ABOUT IT I. I came to the sideline a cheered for my teammates. When I was on the sideline you did great great? That's how we reinforce standards it just keep talking about the US long as you keep talking about the standard over and over and use reinforce reinforce it over and over that that's right and I feel that instead of having very When we work with organizations I'll use companies or athletic teams regardless regardless Their standards initially tend to be pretty nebulous. Well we're GONNA give a hundred percent every day. Well what does that mean I mean I can if I show up to your practice I might think. Hey they're giving one hundred percent. Another guy comes up and she looks at practice and goes. Oh my God. Those guys are playing so soft today. Who One hundred percent as pretty wishy? Washy what we we say is with our standards. Make them like your goals make them quantifiable. Meaning tough you. So you mentioned tough okay. Maybe a standard that reinforces toughness. Is We dive after every loose ball. Okay so then and if there's a loose ball and we don't have the entire team on the floor diving for it okay guys. We're not. We're not being tougher here. Look at the video. We say that the way we prove Avar toughness are standard to reinforce toughness as we dive for loose balls. Did we know. Okay then we're not being tough all right. So let's kind of recap here. So Oh you. Organization needs core values from those core. Values come standards which are based on behavior us. Yes you do. Set goals does based on performance but like the goals kind of take care of themselves as long as you are doing the standards right you can. That's what you get. This reminds me of Bill Walsh right in his book The score takes care of itself. You this idea. It's like you just focus on these points of excellence as long as we do. These things like the scores GonNa take care of itself. It'll be fine. That's that's right and and we we talk about goal setting in in our book but the truth is we just have never in twelve years. We've never worked with a team. That doesn't have goals else. I mean one hundred percent of the time every single team we work with has goals already and yes goals are important. It helps US win games But standards reinforce our core values in our core values define our culture. It's our culture that allows us to consistently compete for championships on whatever are chosen. Battlefield may be. 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I think there's a number of different reasons for it but a couple Brett Brett is number one poorly defined standards to to begin with that we suggest two teams now look. This doesn't work work in D. depending on age and a number of different factors you have to kind of massage this but as an example to the extent that you can let the team the leader determines what our core values are to the extent that you are able let the team determine the standards standards that reinforce those core values let let the warriors on the team determine. These are the standards that I'm GonNa meet and that I'm going to hold my teammates to and then let them determine the standards if there are a warrior warriors want high standards and they want to be held all to those high standards by definition by our definition of what a warrior is. They want high standards and they want to be held to those high standards. They Tabah consequence if they don't achieve them in. They want a benefit if they do now let them determine the standards that alone provides ownership ownership. Therefore it's not the leader standards. It's the team standards. They own those. We always take care of things that we own better than things that we rent. Start with it number one number two have very as I said earlier. Have very quantifiable standards. Not We're we're going to give one hundred percent know if your core value is toughness then we dive for every loose ball. Okay because it's very quantifiable. Then if if I see a teammate who's not diving for a loose ball and I say hey we gotta die for that whether you're out there playing or you're on the bench you can say. Hey then you gotta die for that and there's no personal conflict of will heyman. You gotta give a hundred percent will. I am giving one hundred percent. Why don't think you are well? Yeah Yeah but I am. No no no. The Standard is die for loose ball. Did you dive no okay. Then you gotta dive so that those things right there. They should help the issue of or the challenge. People have of holding each other accountable number one number two. This gets back. Act Two as you know the sooner you can impart this. If you're a parent do it as young as possible. If if you're a teacher start to talk to your students about this coaches coaches same is in in this Judeo Christian Western civilization that we grow up in we are taught. Hey be nice be nice in. We agree with that. We should be nice. We should be nice to everyone but don't confuse nice with kind. Nice Ace is saying hello being truly a kind of person that requires sacrifice. We should be both nice and kind. It's GONNA be uncomfortable to hold a teammate accountable. On whatever the team you're talking about that you're on but be because is it is uncomfortable by holding my team accountable. What I'm saying is my teammate? Being the best that they can be that is more important to me the comfort. I'm willing to be uncomfortable if it helps my teammate. Get better as we discuss at length. Don't ever confuse nice with kind or friend with teammate. Friends are nice. People that you're going to the movies with teammates are signed that you're willing to go to battle with. It's great to be friends on any team until being a good friend becomes more important than being being a great teammate. Then there's an issue we should all strive to be great teammates. I in great teammates are kind in kind. People sacrifice vice for each other and that means holding each other accountable. The distinction really stood out to me. And I've been thinking a lot about it since I read it because like you said Nice. This is usually about comforts about your comfort in the comfort of the other person. Make sure when feels good but kindness is about making people better and that can that's often. It's usually uncomfortable hundred percent so and then the other part of the accountability aspect that you talk about and you've seen organizations positions is holding people actively accountable set of saying someone someone. Hey you're not going to one hundred percent. What a lot of people do is going to lead by example all show people and that will be enough? You think that's not enough why it's nowhere near enough in in every time we hear from any leader. Please stop up saying you're lying to yourself. You're lying to your teammates That person leads by example typically. It's somebody who prepares ars as best as they can write for athletes. They get as bigger faster stronger as they can in the off season for corporate teams. Man That guy so prepared aired or guy girl. I'm using a universal term guy here but boy that guy so prepared every day that they show up he was so prepared she was so prepared for at that meeting. They prepare at superhuman levels. They give a hundred percent every single day it when it's their time to perform they perform but they're just kinda quiet they don't say anything to anybody they lead. By example we take exception to that term a hundred percent of the time every single event that we work or for every single client whom we're privileged to work with and we hear that we tell we say stop saying please because those things are not leading by example title those things are called setting the example in great teammates set the example. We've gotTA BE THUMB GUYS. I we've gotta meet the standards of the organization. His Ation I. It's the first standard of being a great teammate. But then great teammates hold their teammates accountable to achieving that same high standard usually leaders think back to WHO's great captain that we had who is. Who is somebody that really influenced me? Well if you yourself alf or a really hard working person and you had a captain or a director of sales who worked worked incredibly hard and you say oh men that guy. He makes me work even harder. Yeah that's because you're already a hard worker. Lions wins just. I mean this is in nature lions. Hang out with lions zebras. Hang out with zebras. So if you're a hard worker and you happen to have a leader who's also a hard worker. You're AH YOU'RE GONNA work hard. Maybe even you work a little bit harder. But that's because at the heart of it you are a hard worker yet. Leadership is not about that it's leadership herships is. Can you get everybody to work hard and simply by yourself working harder. Think of any team. You've ever been on that because the leader works hard. Every single member of the team worked hard just because just because of it you can't think of an example of it none of us have ever been on teams like that. There's always there's always been somebody who's not working hard to effectively lead them to challenge them to work or Carter. We've got to be able to effectively communicate as leaders so this is part of being a team. So don't just sit quietly lead guesses a given you have to set yet yet to set the example set the standard live the standard. But then if you see other members on your team not living up to that standard you got to actively hold accountable. That's right in in in Brett. Think about we ask young people. This constantly will take doc. The Guy on the team that the coach tells us leads by example is just kind of quiet. Doesn't say anything we we ask him all the time. Hey in in high school we use grew up. Did you just Kinda slime through everything not touch the line. Do fewer reps miss workouts. No no no no. You weren't how about how about in grade school pop playing Pop Warner scumbag back then not do anything bad teammate dot the no no you're right you you boo hardest worker out that right. Yeah I was. That's right because you're a hard worker. That's who you are so working hard even superhuman levels. That's not a sacrifice for you. It's not a sacrifice you're doing what you're good at your inside your comfort zone. Even though most people might look at it from the outside and be like Oh my God look at that guys work rate may be so. But that's you're still inside your comfort zone. You're doing the things that you like to do. It doesn't require a sacrifice for you. Be who you are yeah. We've got a sacrifice great teammates sacrifice into sacrifice. You have to work hard. Still meet the standards but then hold our teammates to meeting that standard tendered to Brett. The thing I would highlight though to you and I can hear myself saying in something. I've gotTA continuously remind myself as a leader is when we talk about meet the standard and hold our teammates accountable to achieving it. To Accountability always has such a negative tone in our society. And it shouldn't it. Shouldn't accountability should be positive. Even maybe even more so than the negative yes somebody we've got a touch the line okay. Somebody doesn't touch the line. Yes hold them accountable. You gotta run back and hit the line right. Hey we're supposed to make thirty sales calls today. Somebody doesn't make thirty calls. Hey Dude so you had twenty nine. The Standard is thirty. Here make thirty. Yes a hundred percent when people aren't meeting the standard hold them accountable as teammates. He made in as leaders look look find examples of teammates who are meeting the standard and hold them accountable for that as well. Oh Hey man. That was awesome a great workout today. We say we're supposed to touch the line every time you did it every single time. Hey we say we're supposed to die for loose balls out here. Look get your uniform. You're covered in grass stains from or or raspberries from Durban on a basketball court. You're covered them. Man That's awesome that's Hey guys look at so and so that's what we mean by tough. Look yes if people aren't going to meet the standard hold him accountable. It's going to help you. You get to where we WANNA get to quicker as important is holding people accountable when they are meeting the standards. No I think that's an important point i. It's that idea with our philosophy of parenting. Is catcher kids doing something good so eas apparent always hone in on the things are screwing coming up at but yet reinforce when they actually are doing something good and give them credit when they do Brett as parents right in again you back to the idea about. I'M GONNA be my son and daughter. I'm going to be their dad. Not Their friend. I must is love up on my children. I mean I don't they're eight and two and a half the number of kisses I've put on them or got to be in the millions already. I mean the that idea about being tough is nothing to do with love. We we show how much we love each other. Show me a team that holds each other accountable of show you a team that loves each other or at least cares deeply but if all it is is always negative people are GonNa -Tuni- out. It's just not gonna mean seen that much but by the same token if the only thing you're ever saying is oh. Hey that's a great job. Oh my God you're the greatest. Oh yeah that's the best. Guess what you get the tuned out eventually for that too. So let's shift gears. We've kind of recap here. We've talked about core values. You said standards that reinforce the core values team members pulled each other accountable. Because they're kind not nice. I mean they're nice but you always choose kindness overnights when holding your team members accountability. Making them better a shift role to the the role of a team leader. What is the role of a leader of team? What's their job? First and foremost a leader accomplishes as the mission by that I mean a leader insurance. The team accomplishes the mission. A leader isn't necessarily the first one across the finish line the leader or great leaders at least insurance their team gets across the finish line. First now they do so honourably with high integrity. I know that's not always always the case. But rather than focus on those individuals who act with a lack of integrity or lack of honor. We focus on those that do because there's many more examples of that plus as the leader if you're accomplishing the mission. But doing so with a lack of integrity or dishonorably. I don't Care who you are. It will catch up to you eventually. Leaders accomplish the mission and they take care of their teammates and again that could mean it means that oftentimes doing uncomfortable things right having to tell someone. They're not living up to a standard or it might mean firing somebody right. Because that's that's what's good for the the team for me. It's challenging bread. I don't use we don't in our family. It's one of the things we talked about at the program. We talk about we. Don't I discuss it in the book I we don't use the term hard. I tell everybody that of done one hard thing in my life when I was an officer in the Marine Corps my commanding officer approached me. He he asked me if I could do him favor what he was going to ask me. You can't be ordered to. Do you have to volunteer for will. I agreed and then that day I drove home from work immediately. Put on my dress. Blue uniform drove out to a family's home drove up driveway. Parked walked up there fronts. Stairway insteps stood in front of their door and took a deep breath and then rang the doorbell and I had to stand there and wait for the door to be opened so that when it was opened by a mom I could tell her that her son had just died in Iraq. That's that's the only thing in my life that I've ever done that's hard and I've climbed Mount Everest of competed in and completed eight. Iron Man's Aben in special operations. What we do on a day to day basis in our life is challenging in warriors is Love Challenge? We want to be challenged but by human nature. We just want to get through. The things that are hard words are important because our Our thoughts determine our words are words determine our actions. I don't have hard conversations. I've challenging conversations. I don't have hard. Today's challenging days. If people want to if people want to talk about the death of a loved one a sick child spouse and you want to call those things things hard. You'll never get an argument out of myself or anybody at the program. But we don't have hard conversations. We don't have hard meetings. We just have challenging meetings. We've challenging conversations as a leader for me. Those conversations are very challenging. I don't like holding Holding people accountable if they're not meeting the standard got I lose sleep over it. Yeah but if it's in the team's best interest I have to I I have to have that conversation because ultimately as a as a leader you were based your performance is based on the performance of the team team not any one individual. Don't ever forget it. So another thing that a leader needs to do to ensure that the mission is accomplished. Their team is taking care of team. I is they have to work the hard themselves but also encourage others in the organization of work hard but as you talk it out in the book. Everyone says that right like every motivational books. As you ought to work hard you see it on instagram with the Hashtag hard work hustle. You guys in the program. Oh come have a different idea of what it means to work harder. Would hard work is what is that. That's right we. It's our trademark. Saying hard work is not what we do during our our normal business hours. Artwork is not what we do during normal practice hours. Hard work is one more and we have to figure out what are one more is as as an individual and as a team make a commitment to doing each and every single day take a team. Yeah as any team in America athletic team in America Practice challenging today. Okay maybe there are. Maybe there are teams that Yana as we went out there and chuck the ball around a little bit okay. But that's going to be a bad team. I'm talking about good teams teams. That are standing in the way of us in getting to where we want to get to getting to the mountaintop. Well both those teams when they show up at three thirty in the afternoon for practice. Guess what their coaches are going to make that practice very challenging aging. If it wasn't challenging it wouldn't be a very good team. Everybody gives great effort between three thirty and six o'clock every athletic team. Good at team is giving great effort between three thirty in the afternoon and six o'clock at night every team is giving great. Effort is not hard work. Hard work work is do it give great effort and then do one more. Think about that thing that might be a negative in your game. Maybe you fall short a little bit. I don't go left as well as I go right. A Mike crossovers good. But I'm not good. You know off ball figure out what you're one more is. What would that discrepancy is that deficiency is and then I don't know spend three minutes a day addressing it? Maybe it's six minutes that's after practice before before the day starts. Maybe it's at lunchtime instead during your one hour break instead give five minutes do your one more. Maybe it's five minutes addressing deficiency. Now we gotta do it every single day because everything we do in life is habit forming but those one. Moore's add up. How do you you do that with your kids? What is one more look like in your family? I'm very fortunate that I have have a great wife. WHO's my partner? WHO's my teammate? And for our children. They're very very fortunate that they have a mom and a dad too much of dad or mom they they would be completely different people than what they are right now. You know as their dad I think about myself now at forty seven years old and I look at what I do for my one more everyday so you want to think. Well that's what I did when I was eight. No it's not no it's not. We're all a some of our experiences. As I said earlier all of us are so so as we look at our children as they're growing growing up as we're raising them we try to do as a family in my wife tempers. This with me is will use wrestling. Practice as an example Does wrestling practice at the end of wrestling practice. One of the older kids. I ask excellent in this older kid. A ex how about you just practice for five minutes here. I'M GONNA start my watch right now buddy five minutes just just practice for an extra five minutes and then at the end of five minutes in this is something. I've had to work on BBC for myself when five minutes. It's when when I get to the five minute mark okay. Now I'm GonNa do six minutes and then the next time I go out there it's six minutes and I go okay. Well now I'm going to do seven eight in it's always. It's never good enough. I have to temper that with my own children because that can beat people down I have to I have to temper that with with my company was my co workers. My teammates at the program is determined. What are one more is communicated? Hey at the end of practice. What do you think X.? Would how much extra we're we're GONNA do something. Okay Buddy that that's going to be a non-negotiable. How long extra do you WANNA work? At the end of practice every practice is one. Minute is the two minutes is at three minutes and if if he said daddy it's going to be one minute great great. Let's do one minute but let's make it a great minute and we're going to do it every single time. And then when that minute extra just becomes the expectation patient then challenge again echoes. Still one minute good. Do you WanNa go to two minutes. Talk about the importance of one minute. Going to two minutes. Let's get to the point where one minute becomes a habit before you go to two minutes and when they give one minute even if your child has is only at the end of practice only gives one more minute on top of their very challenging practice make sure you highlight to them. Just how proud you are. They gave that minute that they consistently give that minute be is the truth is Brett. Most people not kids. Most people won't most people at five o'clock when the bell rings they grab their coat and they go out the door. That idea of doing one more has nothing to do with talent at all. Everybody knows it. It's just that little bit extra that we have to commit to doing every single day. That adds up two ends up. That will end up making us the most successful sales person in my child's case the most successful wrestler eventually instill most people will never do it. So when you have a child getting back to your question who says Daddy I just WanNa do one minute extra at the end of every practice and they actually do it. Make a big big deal about it because it's more than most people ever will in one thing that I'm thinking about has been listening to this stuff this stuff. It's all very it's very simple. It's things as you you've heard growing up but people often give excuses as to why they don't execute on it wh- in your work with organizations musicians and leaders. What are the most common excuses? You see people from putting the stuff into practice as we challenge when we talk about about having a no excuse culture where it starts in this gets back to accountability where we say. It's weird is accountability guy. We have such a difficult time with teammates holding other teammates accountable. The root cause of that is because there's a lack of personal accountability accountability. If I tell this personal work harder that means I have to be working as hard as possible or they they are they are going to blow me off and by the way they should they should blow you off if you yourself are doing it too but we don't have great personal accountability and instead we make excuses for why. We're not doing what we know. We're supposed to be doing what we challenge people on a a thought a suggestion that we give them is. Don't ever use kids or time as as an excuse. Just get rid of those right. Now don't ever say them ever again that I ran out of time I didn't have time I didn't so you cannot use time as an excuse ever again. Just don't do it. Try to figure out. Try to figure out a different. I don't even if you give an excuse but don't make time and for parents stop blaming your kids as to why you're doing or not doing something stop stop. Just do those to make it a habit because again everything we do in life is habit forming so we have to make it a habit in if we can just get rid of those we will end up holding our own cells at a much higher level of personal accountability but another tricky thing with excuses. So maybe you don't make excuses for yourself but other people make excuses for you. How do you overcome that? Yeah in our book. The way we set the Louis wrote the book was really seven. Sections in those seven sections represent the seven keys for creating and sustaining a world. Class team team and one of those seven keys is no excuse in what we do in every section is we take one of our teammates at the program we use their quote unquote their story as the thread that holds that entire section together. Our Teammates Sam Silla. We use his story for the no excuses. Section Samsullah was in the army deployed Loyd to Iraq An. ID exploded near him ultimately after more than fifty surgeries. Sam lost his right arm going through that the the surgeries that will the recovery the surgeries again and again and again. We tell a story about Sam being at a Chinese restaurant restaurant where there's a Hibachi stove all the sudden. His wife can smell flesh burning. Sam Can't feel his hand. His finger has hit the HIBACHI. He can't in his hand. We tell those stories we tell Sam storey ultimately with him losing his right arm it along the way as Sam is is wallowing in grief and self pity on a cocktail of painkillers and he surrounded by the people who love him. The most I saying But he lost his arm he got blown up God. He was in Iraq when it happened. Oh boy this guy that this is what happened to Sam and and it comes from a good place. It's coming from people who loves US dearly SORELLE. We have to if we're going to get be the best versions of ourselves. Not only can we not make excuses but surround yourself with people who don't make excuses for you it makes it it it it makes it difficult difficult it though those people that are making excuses although it may be coming from a good place they're making it too easy for us to accept those excuses instead surround on yourself with great. This gets back to friend or teammate. Instead surround yourself with great teammates who set high standards and then demand them out of you regardless us of whether you have two arms or one regardless of the challenges that you're faced where this has been a great conversation. Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work with the program? Thanks so much bread. I really enjoyed it and I hope your listeners find it interesting and also applicable in their in their own own lives but thanks for giving me the opportunity to speak with you too to find out more about the program and to to order the program book. Recently recently released program people can go to our website at the program dot. Org Awesome Erik capitalist. Thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure Brett. Thank you likewise really appreciate it. My guess there was air capital. He's the CO author of the book. The program it's available Amazon Dot Com. You can also check out his website the program dot org find more information about his work also check her show notes at AOL dot is slash. The program refined links to resources green delve deeper. This topic mm-hmm well that wraps up another edition of the when podcast check at our website at art of mailings dot Com. Or you find our podcast. Archives wells thousands of articles even over the years about leadership development of. You'd better team player things like that. And if you'd like to enjoy at free episode the podcast you can do so institure. Premium head over to STITCHER PREMIUM DOT com sign up code manliness. 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Brett Brett US Connecticut Manley Eric Lacrosse officer US Naval Academy University of Chicago Graduate Harvard aspirin executive Brett Mckay partner wrestling United States Marine Corps Iraq Marine Corps Force Erika public Tehrik