19 Episode results for "UCSD"

#247 Solo maintainer of open-source in academia

Talk Python To Me

1:05:20 hr | 11 months ago

#247 Solo maintainer of open-source in academia

"You run an open source project visit. Seem like you never have enough time to support it. Have you considered starting one but are unsure of you commit to it. The challenge Israel on this episode. We welcome back. Filipo who's been a solo maintainers of the very popular Python Tutor Dot Com project for over ten years. Yes some non. Traditional advice is to help keep your sanity and keep your project going while holding down a busy fulltime job. This is talk by to me up. So two hundred forty seven recorded December tenth breath two thousand nineteen welcome to talk by funding me a weekly podcast on python the language the libraries the ecosystem in in the personalities. This is your host Michael Kennedy. Follow me on twitter. I'm at in Kennedy. Keep up with the show and listen to pass episodes at Talk Python Dot FM and follow the show on twitter via the Ad Talk Python. This episode is brought to you by tide lift and clubhouse please check out what they're offering during their segment. It really helps support the show still welcome back. Act to talk about them to me. I'm super excited. I think it's my third time here. I believe this I do believe this is your third time here. The first time you came we talked about the C Python Source Code and we spent a lot of time talking about see Avowal Dot C. You've been doing a graduate student. Course walking them through the basically the source code of Python Breath on to talk about interpreters right. Yeah that was back. When I was at the University of Rochester? That was that was back in Python two point seven days. I've heard recently on your shows have been people who've done updated versions for Python three updated versions of this interpreter. Walk Yeah Yeah exactly. Yeah we had Anthony Sean. Not long ago he wrote almost a book on it. So yeah we had a lot of time. You're talking about that and the other one was really well received as well and it was something like geeking out in your golden years or something like that like coming into programming basically near retirement. You've you've done some research on that right. Yes that was a right when I came to. Uc San Diego. Which is where I'm working now? And that was a research study actually done on my Python Tudor Platform which will talk doc my lot today and it was A survey I deployed to a bunch of programmers. Were you know explicitly. We want to find people over sixty years old and kind of trying to find these these people. Who are you know? Sixty plus who are learning programming and all sorts of settings and we found all these really interesting things about them so check out that episode. Yeah it was really surprising. Rising in a lot of folks really enjoyed hearing it because I think they were in that situation and I think they felt kind of alone or they felt like they were doing something. That was weird. It was not going to work and it turns out. There's a bunch of people who really appreciated getting into programming. One of the ones that touched me was the idea of. I WANNA get into program and so I can help my my grandchild either. Do Robotics or automate minecraft or something like that was a really interesting reason for it. Yeah it's such a cool you know intergenerational thing to those awesome. Yeah for sure so we're not gonNA talk about either of those things really today. We're GONNA talk about as you mentioned you'll project called Python Tudor At Python tutor dot com right the domain correct tutor dot com. So you like to mix it up and keep things a little bit different because I can go who tutor myself on. C. Plus Plus Python Dot Com right. Yeah so the. The name is quite outdated right started as a python only tool that it expanded to a bunch of languages of which you know C. C. Plus Plus Java and Java script to the most you know the most widely used and I really need to think of a better name but for now. It's it's just by on Tudor now by then tutors unders finding I'll keep the roots. It's kind of as if I python notebooks didn't get renamed Jupiter. That's right yes that's something to that effect so yeah super cool. Let's before before we dive into the topics though. Let's focus just for a moment on you day to day. You already told your story how you got into programming python but you said your at and the University of San Diego where also was a Grad student for a little while so yeah. It's a beautiful place to be and what you do there especially in the winter. Yeah so I'm not. UCSD UCSD or University of California San Diego and I'm a assistant professor in the cognitive science department so it So in our department we actually. It's a very interdisciplinary program. Where where we have people from all sorts of backgrounds who are interested in studying the mind studying how people interact with technology? steadying building new technologies and such as a very three kind of fiber interdisciplinary place in my research and teaching interests are in a field called. HCI or Human Computer Action. So that's more widely known and industry as you X.. Six or user experience so I teach a bunch of courses on web development user experience design basically how to develop products. That are very user focused. My research is is on a topic that I think many of your listeners be interested in is on. How do you build new kinds of interactive technologies that teach people programming and also increasingly increasingly now data science so both of those are obviously super relevant to the talk audience? Yeah absolutely it sounds like super interesting research and for a long time I worked at a scientific company that was spun out of a cognitive science lab. And there's just a ton of interesting technology stuff going on there you know we were using eye tracking like e y e not the letter I tracking to understand how people interact with software and other things. Yeah it's it's a fun area to work as an yeah. It's really cool. I I mean I think we have you know in our cognitive science. We have professors from all sorts of different backgrounds from neurosciences psychology linguistics to computer science artificial Sean Intelligence and emerging interest Larry Field. And it's it's this nexus of a lot like you mentioned of kind of people and minds and technology altogether in in one in place. It's a it's a unique field to be. Yeah it's got a lot of interdisciplinary cross pollination stuff more so than I don't know I don't want to put any disciplined on the spot but you know more so than maybe a lot of them right. Yeah Yeah I think you're very diplomatic originally was from a computer science department rice of my background. My degrees are in computer. `puter science I was at University of Rochester in Computer Science Department. And that's much more. You know traditional single field. Even though my work is clearly very interdisciplinary and education and technology. -nology and everything so I feel very at home in a very interdisciplinary place nice. Yeah I can imagine. Yeah I doubt that a C Python Code walkthrough through would really be a big hit in cognitive science type of thing but certainly in computer science world all right. Let's talk about Python Tutor. Give us the quick picture. Like what is this thing. I've actually been using recently in all share my experience with it but let's start by just the elevator pitch. I'm driving in a car. I should not not be pulling up websites while I'm doing so tell us what it's like. So if you're in your car tesla you have your big touch screen and while you're driving your you want to you. Learn some code so by volunteers a website. It's basically like a very simple online idea. Very simple ideas you just paste in code that you find online or you just type in code very simple text box and when you hit run the real unique thing about it. Is that runs. Your code shows the output just like many online coding environments. Do but with really unique. Ah Steps you through step by step. What's going on and at every step? It draws diagrams. If what's going on in memory so with the stack frames are what your global variables. The local variables with the pointers are with the values are in such an it basically tries to emulate what a teacher would draw on the board rises. Yada teacher explain what is a little bit of code. Do they'll start drawing on the board like here's some data. Here's a variables. Here's what they point. Two and five hundred told US tries to automatically render that so that you could just either teach yourself or you could actually use that to show someone as an instructional tool. Yeah it's really interesting and it does. I feel like it addresses the situation Jason. Where someone's pretty new to programming? They're starting to think about what is a variable. What is a list? What is it data structure? What is a reference type versus a value type? What is passed by reference was passed by value? All that kind of stuff that you need to start chewed these. Just get a bit of an intuition for if you're not necessarily doing a computer science degree but you still need to have a sense of this thing is actually shared by multiple variables in if I interact with it from either affects all of them stuff like that and so you can do really simple things like create a list and then assign into multiple variables and just very clearly show how that works. Yeah and you know the examples that we show you know the the list alias. Things a great one. I you know there's always great to say code on the air tactical bracket Tacoma three and then Weikles X.. So you know it's not clear. Exactly what Wyckoff exercise right in some languages. It might actually call a copy constructor and make a copy of the list one two three but am I thought it happens that you know why Kohl's ex kind of it copies the referenced. That's right so after you do that. Then X and y both point to the same list one two three memory. Then if we asked you you know what is why penn four do and if I do wideout pen for what I what is expert as if you see a diagram. It's very clear that x will promote as one two three four because there's only one list but if you show people a bunch of code. Executes went to three Weikles X. Y. Pen for what is do. It's not at all obvious because people actually you know what they've done these research studies which are fascinating basically. which is it's it's quite low tech rights? You actually just give students a bunch of code like introduction programmes students and you ask them to either draw out what they think is happening or just say what's happening. And all sorts SORTA misconceptions they think like all sorts of different mental models. Right but then I say about showing the diagram is like there's one right mental model there and once people get it. It's like night bright right as day. I thought Oh we have clearly exit point to the same thing and that's going to happen so the diagrams really go a long way and you know helping people learn these fundamentals. The I think they really do is Kinda the thing where it's hard to unseat it once you've seen it unseating. Oh well obviously this is. What's happened in memory? Here's the list and then all the things in analyst or other things that are pointed to by the list and so on. But when you're new you don't really know and I think it's even more challenging when you're doing like a classroom objects complex thing that is you could easily imagine if I have a dictionary. A bunch of dictionaries in list those dictionaries are in the list right right there Allocated as part of the list but obviously as you put it together you have the cool diagrams there and I. I think that helps a lot. Also think it actually helps understanding memory management a little bit if you go and explore it right because pylons core memory management story is reference counting. Yeah and you know. It's interesting because the tools designed to keep the visualization simple. You you know for beginners but you can imagine augmenting it with you know if you WanNa make them more vans version. You'll maybe you with the rough counts next everything and you actually see you know if there are three pointers reporting and the rough count is three. And then maybe if there's a week pointer or some other thing pointing this is not just providing for like C. Plus plus for them and you can see there's three real pointers in one week pointers if if if every real point or goes away. The weak point are still there can still be garbage collected or the allocate and stuff. So I think there's a lot of stuff there and the thing you mentioned before says brief aside this can't unsee it so in the Education literature that sometimes called what's called a threshold concept so a threshold is processed threshold right. So they have. I'm not super familiar earlier with all of them that they've identified but like there are certain things like they're called threshold concept so once you get it like getting the concept of alias saying or something you can't unsee are you always I get it but it's so hard for students to get to that point in by someone really shows you well L. Interesting I didn't realize how formalize it was of course it makes a lot of sense right because once you identify by those if you can get people over the the gap. Well they're ready to just proceed right. Just just start understanding. What data structures do our understanding? How reference counting works? But before that it's kind of this weird buzzy world really understand even refers to what else so how do you understand how exactly and there's all well I mean. I don't personally do this kind of research. I've read upon alive as just you know giving even small bits a code beginners and just seeing what diagrams they draw and this is very like cognitive science. Right it's very very much like what mental models are. You mental representations. Are you building your head and people have all sorts. They draw the arrows backwards. They draw boxes and other boxes. They draw like variables pointing other verbals. And it's like if you have the students all bic sense in their mind right by like because the thing with programming is it's on artificial construct right like it's you know. I think for people like us us in your listeners who've been doing program for a while it seems so natural to us but it's all artificial all right. It's all made up and budget rules that are made up. Yeah I mean our boxes in our lines. Those are conceptual perceptual ideas. But at least they. The concept isn't incongruent with the way the computer works. The computer doesn't actually care about these concepts to the large degree. Agree rages has pages of memory and numbers and whatnot. And I think that's another you know more rabbit holes that move out of time but it's just you know what diagram should we draw right like. Should we draw the bits of memory. Should we draw you. Know the quantum states of the atoms right and obviously for python. We want something a bit more. Abstract right and the whole point of abstraction and these higher are level English that you don't have to worry about all the bits of memory you just worry about conceptual data structures inside. It's interesting it's all about finding the best conceptual model that is both accurate but but not too low level that you get less than the details but not too high level that you don't understand the important parts right. I think the programming and computer science. There's a lot of just having the right mental. Oh model from the machines. Is the right abstractions right. It's really like the abstractions for your mind and I'm sure you know because you teach a lot of these online courses than you make your materials and stuff and we can talk uh-huh. I'm sure you think a lot about in these domain specific things. If you're teaching a sync program you know what diagram should I draw. I guess is it high level as a low level you know what. There's enough of abstraction so that people can actually understand it and do stuff with it but it's not too low level to people confuse. Yeah I think one of the challenges I see being teaching in general also ASE INC for example but in general is having the right level so often you wanna have something. That's easy to understand but if you give all the detail it's just to much it's too easy people over. That's fake that's not real. I need to actually understand what's going on so you've got to walk this tight line. That's also in the applications. You present right presenting. It's easily understandable. But not real or do you rebuild instagram and people were like what is all this no cashing in. What is the database thing and I just want to know a little bit about web development? So yeah it's definitely interesting. I actually for a course I'm working on have been really diving into python tutor dot COM beaucoup. Yeah so so. I'm working on a course called Python for absolute beginners or python for the absolute beginner. kind of like what. I'm hoping to be the first year computer science course for people who don't think they want computer science like take away all the abstract sort of theoretical stuff after just talk enough about data structures and pointers to understand like the shared concept and whatnot and it turns out on. Tudor is really good for creating those pictures as I was thinking about. How do I draw them? Maybe I took my ipad with my Apple Pencil and I could do some stuff right. Could obviously make some graphics but it's really nice to just walk people through. Let's throw this into python tutor dot com and see what what does let's just step through and the other thing I think is interesting is it's not like you just dropped code in there and say run this out. POPs hops the resulting in memory structures and values. And so on but you can step line by line and see how the the pointers and the data structures evolve. And you can even step backwards backwards. This portion of talk by is brought to you by hide lift tied lift is the first managed open source subscription giving you commercial support and maintenance for the open source dependencies us to build your applications and with high. Lift you not only get more dependable software but you pay the maintainers of the exact act packages. You're using which means your software will keep getting better. The tide lifts subscription covers millions of open source projects across Python Javascript Java. PHP Ruby Dot Annette and more in the subscription includes security updates licensing verification an indemnification maintenance code improvements package selection and version guidance roadmap input and tooling and cloud immigration the bottom line. Is You get the capabilities. You'd expect in require from commercial software but now for all the key the open source software you depend upon just visit talk python dot. FM Slash tied. Lift to get started today. A big part of this tool is that it's you know it's step-by-step serially. Your code runs for one hundred steps than it it brings you to wipe has a slider and a button to button's at goes forward and back and you can scrub back and forth to go forward and back on all the steps and this worked because all the code is already run on the server runs on one hundred steps and idea behind. This is not meant for you. Know giant pieces of code so the code doesn't run for that many steps if just a few lines of code and we can exhaustively run it and then collect the memory trace at every one of those hundred or thousand whatever steps and then we bring it back to the front end and then every time you do a step either Ford or back we render that and a visual form so like you said people can go at their own pace and go back and forth breath and tries e. Oh what just happened between this line this. Why the sing do that and you know? Hopefully some people can figure out on their own right if they have some intuitions about it but you know. Even if they can't Dan they can use this as a tool to show their friend and say like Oh. Can you explain why this thing goes down. Doesn't copy it. At least there's something talked about rather than just saying buy Co. doesn't work. Yeah there's a lot of people just throwing code out onto stack overflow or whatever but you could permit link back into these examples right so yeah that's right. Put it in there and you could say she this step five. This is where your conception has gone off the rails and my answer applies to that right there. See this picture right. Yeah and it's cool because the nice thing about taking advantage of the web as a medium is at your l.. Concept is so powerful right so not only the code is embedded in the URL. You're the step number as this as well. So if if you're at a diagram step twenty out of fifty and you see something funny you can send someone a link and then when goes link will run the code in all step to the step twenty money and then they can you know you can ask them about that. So people have posted on stack overflow and autumn discussion forms for like a move like an online course and stuff they just like. Here's the python tutor link and you tell me what's going on here. Yeah and it's used in some textbooks and it's used in like you said some of the mooks. Massive online courses is whatever stands for I forgot. Yeah the massive open online courses. Yeah so it's used by a few texts. Brad Miller who was on your podcast pretty early on who has ruined stone. Interactive and Interactive Python. Textbooks also used in UC Berkeley's introductory course which is think one of the biggest intro programming courses and in probably in the world right there. I'm over fifteen. Hundred students term. Almost two thousand. They can't even fit in electrical to give several sessions and it's because UC Berkeley the giant school for Computer Science. All their students have to take intro python. And they're using the python tutor all throughout their course materials and a bunch of other schools. Use it to that. I haven't kept kept track of. Yeah that's gotta be pretty rewarding feeling to have that many folks using it and benefiting from it. Yeah it's really nice. I mean it's been you know we can talk about the organic that growth and everything but you know every day we have may be you know over ten thousand probably active users a day and is just on a site the other thing that is relatively new since last time we talk doc. was this live help mode. So there's a public health queues of Ukhta suppressive. You're brave enough. The press get helped by you actually put your just your session on a help Q.. And some anybody on the side whether they're like a tutor who were just hanging out on the orders another student who is just procrastinating. Just suck on their own problem. They can click your name and you join a shared session and it's as though you have like a Screen share in the browser. And you can see each other's mice and you can walk through and Reiko de other and then also chat a little chat box that we have like a few dozen people a day using this feature and like getting help from risk absolute strangers around the world and it's like it's basically like a you know a stack overflow like thanks except to real time and it's it's private so it's you know they're not shy about posting their question then it's private and it's Chad Basin. It's that's been really successful. Yeah that was really interesting. I did see that in when I was messing with trying to visualize the code that I was trying to explain. I did see you know so. And so from Argentina or a user from Argentina is asking for for help on Python. So and so from Germany's asking for help on C. Plus plus or whatever and there's a little button that says help them. Yeah you can just jump in and it's all very self you know it's all self moderating right. It's all voluntary. If you don't like edginess leave there's no you know no private information being exchanged. It's very kind of lightweight. And it's it's worked really well so so far just because it's the community still relatively modestly sized right so that the people on the sider They're usually pretty well behaved because they're there because they're trying to learn generally wedding. Yeah it really reminds me of you. Know the the good parts of the Internet and it'd be more helpful and friendly each other. Yeah that is actually really nice. There's not the permanent snarky nece straight. You help people or whatever. Yeah and there's no harm done if you can't help you say sorry. You know lock and someone else might jump in and stuff. Yeah for sure you talked about some interesting things that it does me. We could just talk a little bit about that before we get into the history and just the maintaining of it. So I have this Python Code owed this surplus plus code and I want to put it onto your server and run it. That already seems a little interesting in Risky the is you've talked about it. Being in St Louis and yet there's all these interesting things like I can bookmark and share this code on step. Five with his visualization. Run or I can have this interactive interactive chat with these people. And so on. So how does that all work the blog posts that I think you'll think too is about maintaining scaling the system as just one person and That in later on the show but one of the because design principles or innovative design principles. I didn't WanNa have like much permanent state date at all. So you know for the most part I call it stateless in the sense that I guess the state is all explicit right so like if you visit the site forever your l.. You go due to that. State is completely in the oil so if you go to the site and blanket Blanco you start typing and if you want to save your code quote unquote the only way to do that is to create a your l.. And the did. Your code is actually in the basics four encoded or something like that. Yeah something yeah. I don't think even compressed but you can imagine compressing at sixty four so I'm cutting coded it's all in your l.. And the thing is like modern your L.'s are GONNA be up. You know a few megabytes and stuff. I mean it's not recommended but you can fit a fair amount echoed in there again. You know the swabs in Code Right. So it's a few lines of code it's in the euro and then also the data's of do you want to execute this code. which step do you WANNA be on? What options do you have toggle? They're all just you know parameters the url so the nice thing about that is that I don't have a database right. There's no database anywhere. There's no user accounts like you don't register you you know we don't keep track of your history of your code. There's there's none of the you know the frills of like an online editor like what you mentioned about the chat is of course. There is a chat server right. There is a server in order to maintain that and I guess the Chat Server has in memory state. But like that doesn't keep any on this date right so like if my server gets rebooted or something crashes and at the worst that happens is your chat session dies. And then you hope to wait 'til server auto reboots and then you you reconnect stuff. So it's very very Janke like that. Well I think that's actually really interesting. It's all about the trade off. Would you want to build. Are you trying to build a community around this thing or are you trying to build a tool and one of the things. We're going to dive into is. This is something that you've grown quite a bit even though you have a full-time job and it's you're not getting paid for it and it's it's sort of focusing on one thing that you really wanted to build instead of just letting it grow and grow because there are so many knock on facts from the stuff that you're talking about right so once you have user accounts well now you have to have email because one of the very first features avoid. It's used as I can't log in. Click here to reset it like within hours hours of launch site. That thing got us right away right it means as users were just signing up that thing is and once you have email you gotta worry about Spam Spam and then you've got to worry about the American can spam act. You've got accounts and now you've got to worry about. GDP our policies and all these. There's just the tentacles of easy right and then there's the support stuff that goes on and just it's so easy to ask for these simple things and we haven't even talked about patching databases and migrations backups. And those kinds of things right zoo and it's fine. If that's what you want to build go do it. You know I went and build some kind of like that with my my platform. But it's not your main job that your main focus right. Yeah that's a great. Yeah as you were talking about all these things that just made me. You know all these all these either that or vicariously feel you know because I know folks like yourself and I have other friends who are building their own software. Businesses essentially a software their own SAS businesses. This and of course if you're building a business users and not to mention having money involved right yeah payment processing right. We haven't even talked about money. Bank accounts in merchant accounts. And all that kind of stuff. That's a whole `nother level. Yeah I like your framing of like just for a minute. Let's just let one have accounts from the minute. People Log bieber going to forget their password and any an email reset and then you need to send out emails. You need to figure how to not get on everyone's spam filters all these and then if you keep any user data there's has all these laws and you want to term the service and you want and then when you have money involved in stuff so yes so my goal with all this. I mean this all started out as just like a personal project and Grad School. You know many any almost ten years ago and like many in I've I've followed a lot of these independent creators and independent open source developers and a lot of these projects. Just start out like mine. Read their someone's a personal issue. No someone has a personal interest. Start a project at start small and then it organically grows and then it just depends on what people's goals are with that for myself. You know I'm in a very traditional academic role you know my day job is teaching and doing research and all that professor Lee things and you know it just happens that I have this thing that I keep. Keep running and it's been beneficial to me both in terms of my research and teaching obviously and also just publicity and just general personal enrichment but then on the other hand I want got to be very careful about scoping at so that doesn't take over my whole life. Yeah absolutely as sort of the blessing and the curse of popular things beat a free website site or an open source project like sequel Alchemy or something like that all of a sudden. All these people are asking you to help. Add this feature or do this thing or I can't get it to work. Can you help me with this. Yeah I can just overwhelm overwhelming right. A lot of people get burned out trying to deal with that. Not even mention the the folks who come along as for help in which is clearly uninformed sort of foundations and then they're angry if you won't take an hour out of your day to help them right right yeah. I think everyone has experiences of that. Yeah I mean everybody. You know we've seen a lot of blog posts and things on twitter and it's very common you know sentiment you know. Basically I think if you've maintain any piece of software whether it's your own in business or it's it's an open source one you know when you get thousands hundreds of thousands millions of users you know even if ninety nine percent of users are great you know that one percent of the point one percent sent a bad interactions can just be really bad just because of the large numbers thing right got interactions really sour. You Dour your mood for the whole day and such though right and it's it's not just that there's only a couple of them right. There might just be one a week but no human psychology of it. Is We feel the negativity much more than we feel the either explicit. Hey thanks this thing really helped me or even just the satisfied people using it and not saying anything right but that negative stuff that sticks with you and it can really they dragged down if you could somehow wash it away with ten thousand other good experiences you could drown it out. But that's just not how people are. Yeah I think Brett Canon has talked a lot about that. Your bread is one of the core python developers and he's written some great blog post gives them great talks in interviews about the concept and others well Ram in my article by blog post links to a bunch of prior worked from other people talking about open source maintenance and burn out and this sort of volunteer Labor right and I I learned a lot from reading a lot of the stuff through the years. I explicitly wanted to design this project so that I hopefully don't suffer from that right because you know that's not my full time job to do open source right right if you WANNA have healthy the psychology and feel good about yourself and not just feel up all day. That's great in terms of the history of Tudor. Basically this is something that you created in in Grad School. Right and it's just it's taken off it kind of rode the wave of mooks and online education and interactive books. And all that and since. Then you've mostly been been able to just sort of keep the lights on a few features not spend tons of time on his at pretty accurate. Yeah so I think it started around two thousand ten and then the first few years you know I would say two. He doesn't thirteen those first three or so years. Were very active in development right. Both because I was still in schools had much more free time and then also the mook zero mass open online courses. You know mooks coming online around the early twenty tens Khan Academy a lot of these hate online courses right on I forms like yours and other a a bunch of other Linda plural side all these platforms are coming on also like our code a lot of this. You know teaching everyone programming and kids getting into programming. There's there's just so much energy in the first half of this decade around online tools for programming and then a lot of fortunately a lot of the intro courses were taught him hyphen. So that had this tool that had very good organic. Google searches all on tutor. And as more people use it more people bound and the link to it from their blogs from online courses and online textbooks and lecture notes and stuff and it just really grew and then like you said in the last five five year so it's mostly been in maintenance mode because I've been very busy with my early professor career ear and such right. That's a critical time in in that career for sure to make it through the tenure and so on this portion of talk by onto me sponsored by clubhouse the House clubhouse is a fast enjoyable project management platform that Breaks Down Silos and brings teams together to ship value not features great teams choose clubhouse because they get flexible workflows they can easily customize workflow states for teams or projects of any size advanced filtering quickly filtering by project or team to see how everything the thing is progressing effective sprint. Planning setting their weekly priorities with iterations and then leading clubhouse run the schedule all the core features are completely free for teams with up to the ten users as talked by listeners. You'll get two free months on any paid plan with unlimited users and access to the premium features so get started today visit talked by Don Dot com slash clubhouse talked by thunder slash clubhouse. You have an interesting quote in the article that I'll link to talk about the maintaining this as a solo open source develop burns on you. Say the pilot tutors. Probably as far as you know the most widely used piece of open source software that's maintained my single active assistant professor. And that's quite an interesting statistic. I think maybe right. Yeah as far as I know where that's always good to say. As far as I know because as far as I know it's true. Yeah so that quote. There was an assistant professor. Someone who's basically in the first five or six years of their career tenure track but not yet tenured right. Yeah so tenure track means out your path to work toward getting tenure. But I'm not there yet so you know you're basically at these big university. It's a lot about publishing getting grants writing research papers teaching. Well all that stuff goes in court folio and you know building open source software's not really part of that portfolio although there are people who do it because that's part of their research lab rights. So right I guess my you know I guess somewhat claim to fame as I think out of people both who are early in their careers. I don't know of anybody who's really been. Maintaining software been so widely used and there's of course software projects that are much more widely used the Jupiter project is a great great example right so Jupiter notebooks and the whole Jupiter ecosystem that has started out of academia. And now there's a lot of industry partnerships but that's you know a big team effort with a lot of funding funding with a T. It's not just one person in their in their Home Office hacking away late at night. Yeah for sure. There's a bunch of folks that work on that another example that that came to mind was sage math. You've sage man so yeah. He was at University of Washington in Seattle. And he worked on sage math. I don't think he did Solo Solo but he actually left academics to just focus on sage math in the platform. I interviewed him many years ago and I hope hopefully he's still doing well but yeah I mean that's kind. The pressure right is for him. He's like I can't do both. I'm GonNa just go work on this project. Which you know seems pretty interesting but you gotTA balance it right? Yeah it's just depends of priorities rats. Yeah so William is a bit quite a bit more senior than I am. He's a he made tenure and a full professor he events quite a bit in the ranks and University of Washington as the math professor. And and all the meantime you know. Obviously as passionate making the sage project for computational mathematics and that you know again I think that started with him right like many projects and then crew and to to the point where you know he wrote some great blog post about this kind of Over the years of how. It's really hard to sustain this in academia especially growing. Because that's not really your day job. It's hard to get funding for. It's hard to get students to work on it. But then you know. He decided at least as of European decided to quit his professor job in full-time just basically run his right as a business. I think it's still concerned. But there's a consultancy model and hosted and everything. Yeah there's paid hosting cloud version as well. That's interesting have you considered considered you are subject to the publisher parish segment of your career right. So have you considered publishing things about John Tudor on say say Joss the Journal foot open source software or something like that so far. Actually you know this whole thing about python in these past few years. It's not just for my own personal enrichment or benefit in the. There's actually a great career benefit as well so because the bathroom has a lot of users I'm actually able to use it to do data analysis or run experiments or to deploy these user user surveys like for the older adults like magic. It's hard to reach thousands of older adults. Cody all around the world. If you don't have that you can just especially beginner coder exactly in the advanced ones. You can go through the standard data channels but right back overflow or whatever. Yeah it's really hard to reach the the beginnings though. Yeah so I've actually been able to my students. I've actually been aimal do a good amount of research on the platform so we have a bunch of papers using the platform. But you're right. We haven't actually thought about writing technical papers about the system itself per se and part of it is just the lack of time and priorities and you know the hope is in the future. If I have more time to think about these things I might transition that but so far. You know like you're saying the I've been down much more traditional academic research routes. Our papers are much more academic nature which is which is good because obviously like doing that too. That's right that's right. Yeah right all right. So let's talk a little bit about your article and you basically laid out the very steps ups and trade offs. I think traces the under the key word. Keep underpinning here of how can you both keep this very popular thing going and yet focus focus on your academic career and you have a ton of students right at. UCSD that need to come to office hours and you need to grade their papers or their code and work with them and that already is draining. You probably don't WanNa go and then take care of a bunch of issues and bugs and stuff afterwards that you don't need to. Oh yes L. Freight so yeah so you kind of laid out some of the steps that you and through and it's a little bit of a counter example of what people say you should do to be a really good open source source. Maintain her at all comes back to. Where do you want this thing to lead you to do? You want to create requests of super-popular library or do you WanNa Create Jupiter or do you want WanNa keep this thing interesting and useful while not letting it consume your life right. Yeah and I've definitely chosen. You know sustainability as the most as the highest priority right like I like the saying it's running. It's running well. You know. It could sustain itself but if I try to grow it in any way really you know I I feel like it's a good equilibrium now and if I try to do more stuff it would just just create more work right. Doing more creates more work and such so an and I like her framing of it. Kind of counter example the explicit framing of the article which people can read is that. There's all these best practices that people talk about an open source which I'm sure many people on your podcast talked about building a community being responsive to users having good documentation shen good tutorials just collaborators. That's right inviting collaborators maintaining a a community of users and contributors and such and I basically basically try to turn every one of these best practices and think about the opposite right because my use case is that I don't want to grow this. I want this to keep going by. Don't WanNa you know I do. Think one of the key missing elements or key assumptions is of course I want my open source project to be. The most I widely used in the highest contributed to thing period right and that that may be. But if it's not then maybe that advice no longer applies. Yeah I like that. I like the frame and that's on a related note. This read these blog posts about in the technology world. Rather always more technologies coming about you know you can do coober netease and you can do all east crazy setups and you have all these new cloud engines and all platforms and seven Cigar Framework acing staff and all that right. Yeah and then people were just like all right. You can just chill shell because you're not running facebook or Google twitter you know if you're just starting a minimum viable product or small business of. They just pick something that works. It's fine just build. Your product backed out and and I feel very similar. I don't use all the new technologies I don't you know my tech stack is pretty old and pretty crafty but it kind of works as long as it keeps working and the reasonable. I don't want to like I don't WanNa poke at it all because I don't want to have to deal with anything break Bryant. Well if you're trying to chase the most modern javascript framework think how many times he'd three right right exactly it's it's angular nowhere and you're angry at Angler now so it's view of you went to three and people are upset about something there so now as react react is it goes and goes and goes right so pretty interesting so let me just take you through some of the key points in the article that you talked about some of the steps. You've taken to to help keep this balance that you talked about one that I think we've already hit on a lot. Is You hyper focused on a single use case. Yes so the main use case or the only use cases emulating what a teacher would draw on the board right so I felt like that focus is great because that gets rid of a lot of the scale ability issues right. Because you're like oh I need to run arbitrary code owed and like how do you render a bunch of code and a bunch of stuff and it's like you know the way to use us as think about. What would a teacher draw on the board? If the teacher can't draw on the board you probably can't I understand anyways because you know that's not for the use case and also you know if you have too much. Code of Code is too complex. We are up her hands. And you know we bring you an unsupportive Turks page and really are you know this is really outside the scope with his tools. Oh focus really helps the fee eliminating feature creep right. We already talked about databases e-mail reset passwords accounts. GDP are that kind of stuff right and just saying we just need this really cool diagramming auto diagramming feature. This is what we're gonNA focus on. It's been really successful. And I think that leads pretty naturally into not listening to user requests. Right people ask for accounts or social show gamification or integration with get hub or programmer like auto complete like high charm or visual studio code or an LMS. All these different things people are asking for right. Yeah I mean these are all great ideas if other people want to build them or if if I had a team to build does that'd be great but again it's just there's only me there's no way to. There's no wait to put all those. Yeah they all do fun but they all. It's one of those things where you want to ask you. Just make this small change and let's focus it down not just from a whole oh application but let's just take it into the library right some open source library you got. Could you just add this overload or this default value this function or could you just add one. Other function auctioned does something slightly different. It's probably only three lines to write. Please do that. Why wouldn't you do that? Well because now I gotta go write a bunch of tests and then I've got to go rewrite the documentation Asian and then there was that screen shot that showed the output put his difference. We gotta go regenerate screen shots for all these things and I gotta rewrite the tutorial because now this would be an alternative way and there's just this three lines blows up into a week long experience right as it's super hard to see those knock on effects. Yeah you can have this. Oh our just you talk into yourself like you. You basically said all these things way better than I could write these things. Just just keep piling up and I think that goes with the focus really focused on providing one thing and an anecdote here. Is that you know. I don't have any flexibility. In how the diagrams are. I'm sure you've run into the series like I really wishes was drawn in slightly different ways across and high. Yeah too bad right. 'CAUSE 'cause you know to make flexible there's just a lot a lot more work and in a way you know. I view this tool as because it's pretty stable. I just said you know if as an instructor you WanNa work around at you just basically would explain. This is a tool you know. It works but just be careful that you know this thing. Actually you should point backwards or or whatever and early on I actually. I have acted here I actually did work with a few. Professors is is brain early days right and I actually cut my several versions some version. They wanted the pointer on this way and then I had a few versions for different classes. Just because these are my friends and colleagues right and also it was early on so I wanted to help them out but after a while I'm like there's no egg and do this where everybody like so. This is a canonical graphic visualization. Take it or leave it. Yeah and I think it's fine. You know you need a better picture. Use a whiteboard or or manually. Draw your sun dried on either on a chalkboard a whiteboard. I would like some sort of digital equivalent right you could. Here's the picture I want to draw and this is actually how I look and I think that's probably just fine. The other the next one in a in the article was that you resist talking to users. Yeah yeah that's very very blunt way to put it. Yeah so like the early we days. It was great because I have an email address on the side and it was very helpful to talk to users and get bug reports and feature requests because that was how is able to integrate on the tool so well. I'm very grateful grateful for their early users. I mean this is like you know. Even though I put it so bluntly put an astros. I'm like in the beginning. It was awesome but then after again after the tool stabilize after for years there. Wasn't anything obvious I wanted wanted to add. Then you know the bug report just were corner cases or things that have already been said before or like. Could you do this now you know. This is way too complex so then in. So what I I do is I have a very comprehensive kind of FAQ slash unsupported features page and list out. Basically anything people would ask it Kinda listed out and if people actually ask them thing gets that's unusual I would add it to Faq and that seems to work reasonably well Y- that's really nice instead of just answering it privately over email which is frustrating find underway to answer it in public permanent forum so it can just stay you just either. Just have an autoresponder this as I you need to look here and then you can email me or or something like that right. Yeah and you basically now whether it's an error message on the site for whatever reason right either it's a user triggered air or just like the server went down or something I just put a little link to the page. They can just go read the page whereas before I put my email address it then obviously email just Hebrew would just be a lot so again this is like the desire like if you WanNa create a Los Work for yourself that you make yourself less available right right absolutely so another one that you decided to do is not to go and explicitly try. Did you marketing to promote the thing but more somehow you just sort of grew organically in the Mook era and have been going strong since then. Yeah and like you know. I'm a really a big fan of following. A lot of these open source conferences Pie Khan and others and watching their videos and and seeing how people promote and market and in and spread the word about their open source project. I guess just a time thing right. It's like I have to spend my time giving talks and traveling on much. More academic research conferences that. It's it's actually something I would love to do in the future when I have a bit more. Have Freedom and time to I would love to explore this world of non academic conferences. 'cause okay I've been in many academic conferences all similarites all the stereotypes that you hear about and I would love to participate in things like Khan and Akan all these things but it's just again just a priority for me at this point that haven't really prioritized at trade us the other one that you mentioned that we have covered fairly deeply is keeping everything in St Louis. Yeah so just briefly on that is that I don't have basically I don't have a persistent database. The I guess by by St Louis. I there's no persistent data store the brain rain right right sure. There might be in memory chat log to sink that up. But that's not the same as I need to Migrate Post Grass to the latest version or failure so we had to go over to the backup. Cluster stor yeah. There's there's none of that I mean basically I have. No I just reboot the servers periodically. If something is pretty bad. I mean it's like there's some weird memory leak issues because maybe with docker maybe something else. I don't know that's boy. I don't actually know bothered me bugs. I just have some Krahn job that just checked my memories. Usage memory usage starts spiking too high for too long I just reboot the server. It's all you know. And I think I have a few servers so it kind of load balances so like it seems to work pretty pretty well and at worst a free thing people just go try again a minute later it it works. It's been holding a few years away to run devops their system that at all but it works. Yeah no practicality definitely beats the purity of absolutely you're saying like I'm just this guy I gotta just keep it working and I can't be bugging this weird docker issue so you know what just forget it. We're just booted every now and then. If you were a real company you would definitely not do this but uh other hand. There's a really cool article from instagram's engineering blog called dismissing python and garbage collection instagram. And you can go import. DC and say Gee dot disabled and Python in turn off the generational garbage collector that catches the cycles but because most stuff is caught on reference counting you can actually live a long time so they ended up doing that in production election and saving tons of memory usage because they got better memory sharing across the forked out processes rebooted. Because eventually you got a bunch of cycles you've got to get rid of. There's re- recycle the process. Yeah so the same thing right like it's it's not as crazy as it sounds. I guess yeah and this is like that. That's great. That's that's you know. That's an engineering hack. In the in the truest sense of the word right that it's like a simple and clergy solution but it it saves them all sorts of time and money in a boat. The you you can imagine calculating literally the savings of money in the data centers from that efficiency and also that savings of money and paying engineers the debugging and maintain all that extra if they had dental more complicated complicated custom memory allocators scheme. It just takes all this money for highly paid engineers to maintain all that right now. We'll just read it. Yeah exactly. It's so weird that they actually better performance by just letting leak memory but apparently than the right use case they definitely do. So yeah. That's all right. Yeah yeah another maybe to a couple of things together like kind of in that bucket are not super worried about performance reliability and not we already mentioned not super dedicated to stay up on the latest list version of the hot new web framework or whatever. Yeah and actually you know the the ironic me having a very stable sort of setup is kind of good for reliability in a sense because you know if I try to change anything around and might bail in some weird way of him always upgrading. The latest libraries relates framework. There might be some weird memory leak. That's undiagnosed no strike. But if I stick with super old sort of you know kind of a lamp stacking super old setups those things are pretty patchy and those things are pretty well debugged and fairly stable table but on the other hand you know. I'm not trying to squeeze every ounce of performance out right that it works well enough. Sometimes you have to wait a little longer if the servers busy or if the retry but you know this is not a Wall Street. high-speed trading or something. Yeah maybe some. Some large lecture is just finished or they said everybody opened up your laptop talk all thousand of you go here now and try this. Maybe maybe run into but my experience was it was super fast and it was totally fine. I had no latency issues and I think that's it's interesting because I feel like so much. The trade offs that we consider. Imagine a world where we're so successful that we can barely stand it. You know what I mean. Yeah what if were featured on the front page of Forbes or hacker news for like three weeks or you know product addict hunt in just the people come and they rush. I think people really don't appreciate people not not a lot of people. Don't really appreciate. How much traffic just simple pyramid flash DJANGO can handle? I mean my server we got millions of requests we do like fifteen terabytes of data traffic exchange. It's ridiculous ridiculous and it's like the is five percent nothing. I think I mean this goes back to the point earlier. We mentioned these blog posts about you know. Don't worry about designing running for scale front right. This is a classic case. The modern instances of premature optimization. It's like you know I think a lot of this premature optimization as software developers you know we often like to try a new technologies and try to you. Know they're intellectually interesting right. Like Oh if you get hooked this up in this abbots intellectually interesting and. It's I feel personally. It's sort of like procrastination. Ask The nation from thinking about your product. That's the hard thing when you're building either open source or a product or anything is the actual product talking to users and the the real core of what what you really want. Whether you're building something people really want right because then you have to actually talk to people and face criticism by oriels or other boring in in your mind. That's not by cutting edge. Yeah Yeah but if you just Jack Shave building the best tech stack then no one's GonNa tell you know but then you might over engineer that so for me you know. It's not that I'm some engineering genius issues. I didn't have time to do any of this. I just stuck with I suck with whatever stuff was available ten years ago right. So that's another thing that people asking. Oh you know do us all these things that they didn't exist ten years years ago so of course I didn't use it I haven't really upgraded. Yeah Yeah Super Interesting. The other last two I guess Kinda fit together as well as the code is available on get hub linked to do it. But you don't make it super easy for people to work on. And you don't have a lot of contributors. Yes this is kind of like the last part like you know when people talk about open source another another assumption that people have is that open source. Projects have a community of both users and contributor by like you think about these projects with contributors and get hub pull requests requests issues and all this vibrant thing of open source and for me. It's like it's open source in the strictest sense is that the source code is open and there was a open source valid open open source license on the code so you can use it. You can put in your products whatever you want according the licenses. It's not quote unquote open source in that. I don't foster a community contributor so I don't I explicitly don't spend time on documenting the code or telling people really into instructions for how to install it or run on their own servers or under different edge cases Jason Stuff and also. I don't really solicit contributions right that anyone can fork the code and use it. I'm sure people use it in all sorts of ways I don't even know and that's the great part about it but I don't personally have time to merge the contributions and manage all of this complexity around you know when you go from one developer myself to anybody who's more than WAD drug dealing with a team project managed. I didn't well and it's one of these knock on effects of well it'd be great to have people to contribute but then your code has to be a little bit higher equality so that it's easier for them to do so. Oh then also you gotta make sure that you have proper test coverage completely across the board because if they contribute something and the the Travis Automation says it passes. Is it really GONNA go test. I mean here we are again going down this rat hole which if that's the direction right like it's about where you wanna WanNa go like I said at the beginning if that's the way you WanNa go. You definitely want to do that. But if that's not the way you WanNa go then maybe. That's not the right thing. Yeah totally and yeah I think you. He summarized his everyone of these points. You summarize the examples better than I could have very well. I'm happy to do it. You wrote a good article that I read through and thought about. I guess an interesting term that I've heard I heard this from Scott. Hanson burst but maybe he heard it somewhere along the way. I don't know the original attribution but I've heard of this type of project project. At least the way you described at the end as source open instead of open source is like the source is there. But it's not sort of participating in the whole Pr. They are flow. That said you have people who have contributed right like the other run the Java visualize irs was done by other people and so it's not that nobody contributes contribute. It's more that you're not fostering it so yeah you're probably counts as open source and maybe a little asterik like limited for special keys and like the Java and one's a great example because it was actually done by a professor who taught in Java so I haven't done Jarvis. I like the beginning of college in one class. Because I've just never worked in. Let's go use something else. I just never happened. That was never the world I worked in. I didn't work in enterprise. APPS in the two thousand or widgets are AFLA whatever so. I'm heap totten Java. And he actually made a Java engine he actually hosted on his own site for a while and then after a while all I actually merged into the main thing because it was well contained. self-contained has its own thing it just interface with my visualized in a works great. It works great but I think if anyone report the bug it. I'm I'm just like I have no idea what to do. This guy has moved onto something else too. But I'll ask is. It's as literally as I don't actually know job. I don't know how to keep bugging writings. Have all Virgina job. I it worked and I don't want attention I yeah it's the versus Java from six years ago but that's what it's GonNa be. It's all good nice. So at the end of the article. You said it's a bit of a fluke that python tutors doing so well that you've you know all these millions of users who have visited it and benefit from and so on and the reason it's a bit of a fluke is your day job doesn't incentivize it to let me ask you. What do you think do you think it should? I mean I did mention the Journal of open source for software as a way to kind of like shoehorn it in Tad but what are your thoughts on things like. This and academics should academic credit for these kinds of the creation. I mean it's clearly a value to the world of ten million people are understanding code. Better through it yeah. That's a great. That's a great that could be. Its own our obviously question alive. Even the question is really about currently academic path. You know kind of research studies and publications and grants all the more traditional metrics for the main thing and and I I think that things are broadening out in some fields right in fields like my own. HCI Action User Experience. A lot of our things are open source products that you write papers on do studies on. It's all very symbiotic. I think by kind of most clear stance on this is that you know. Research is really about sharing generalized sizable knowledge with the world. Right so like example. As if I may on Tudor I just stuck the coat on get hub and said. Here's the link. I think that by itself is not really much generalizable knowledge. It's just a bunch of stuff but like you mentioned if I wrote about in detail I showed how it works for users if I have some general design ideas you know maybe these blog posts and these things. I think that there is a way to work that. Into a more scholarly SORTA portfolio. I see that in now that I'm a more diverse field. You know. We have colleagues in in visual arts. RISA data we have a great visual arts department. You know what is their portfolio right. Their portfolio is. Yeah right some papers. They raise some scholarly works analysis history street but a lot portfolio is my art pieces and my film. Your film professor of music professor you're doing performances and stuff so I think that the world of science is broadening riding out its definition more and I I definitely do see that broadening in the future but you know universities and academia is very kind of traditional and slow moving. Sort take your ships shift to turn. Yeah that's right so for the time being you know I still think you know like the ending a mind article. I have a lot of students especially you know very programming soon so I want to be able to build software and stuff and then I I actually tell me what your if your goal is to be working in industry working open source. That's great they've. Your goal is still to build a more traditional academic career at least for the time being the more traditional research and scientific studies are the way to go and if you can do your science in a way that can foster open science. It's an open source which you know some people have done very well including some people you've interviewed. That's probably the most sustainable way right that you do your work in the open but you also cut a adhered here to more traditional. Scholarship is why it's a lot of work right but you know that that's the most practical way down. Yeah it does seem like shifting a little bit but I definitely hear here we are coming from. I think some of the drivers are. Hey we have this great paper about. We just took the first picture of black holes but oh by the way we can actually take the pictures. We have to use artificial artificial intelligence to interpret a bunch of different things to actually compile the picture. And how can you possibly write your article without somehow talking about what what you build. There's probably a component that can be extracted out. I think is moving away from things like Matlab and other pre SAS and whatever proprietary systems. They're starting to get into open source and it just draws them into building stuff that helps do their research. And I think that's eventually that's going to put enough pressure to turn the ship a little. Yeah I think so and I think I think that people at the more senior levels can be can have more flexibility and rhyme in doing these sorts of things and advocating for that. I think a lot of this stuff works on a top down to I already. We've seen you know. The top is the funding agency if the funding agency say that you must put your coat open data open and stuff in which some funding at age an an NSF. They're starting to do that. And those are great efforts because at least gets people think about Oh we might need to clean up our data and our codes and other people can use it. And eventually those you know the Steph Jeff will percolate downward yeah. I agree the reproducibility aspect. That's becoming a bigger focus. It's always been super important. But now it's easy to test whether it's reproducible. So you know I. I think that also leads to more of the code being open and whatnot. Yeah exactly all right well. This has been a super interesting conversation. But you've got to answer the two questions for you. You get out of here so if you're going to write some code what editor do use. I still use them. Because I learned it in Grad School and I still use it. Even though you know everybody's everybody's onto visual studio code by now again just like with the old technologies I've I've past several generations there was Adam was sublime was big can. Vs Code is now. You'd obviously we. I tell us just what I do. We talk about these threshold concepts probably some kind of me about editors as well and there's the interesting and notable pipe package something that that's really funny. Yeah I was trying to prepare for this. The last time I gave the cop out. He has your I'll just Anaconda doc or his manager and stuff. It's hilarious because I actually don't write a lot of fun. Cody more right. Because you know there's five hundred dollars off the script that's right right the front that's agic is and it's ironically I'll plug one thing as actually scrambling then you're gonna ask that question now scrambling and look look at this pipeline cutter. Refer somebody else's code that I wrote to you know and then toward my file system so I've been basically doing a lot of stuff with basically kind of building my own personal archiving are sinking dropbox. In kind of thing and one of the problems is how do you just crawl through a directory hierarchy super fast. When you have a million files and I've actually found this is a plug for upgrading three? I found that this is not a package but you know the the break and library. West dot walk walk and walk. I believe is this thing that's only in Python. I think three five or above. It's super fast. At least on the Mac everything nine nice has probably uses some system calls or stuff and it's notably because I had a python two point seven version before using skander or some other thing right and if you upgrade a python three three five and uses this function you know us walk it just goes like it's just like thousands of times faster and this is people talked about this a lot right right and like that's one of the things that gets people to upgrade. Is that you know if if something does is slow and this is a new version of the API and a lot of things than you a new Python Standard Library in the standard library guests are either drop in replacements or a slightly different API but it just goes much faster. I just encourage people look at that so this is not a pipe hi tech. It was just like you're looking at the standard. Yeah just relocated the standard library for you know things that the optimize and and yeah. That was the first thing that came mind because I was just working that code. Very nice very nice. All right final call to action. People are either teachers or students. They're hearing about buys onto year. Do they think it's maybe useful. What I tell them that? Just go go try out the the site python tutor dot com and go participate in the community of just you know Helping Ping each other out and you know asking for help and such and it's really community driven so any help I can get on the site would be great and also they want to integrate it when they're teaching materials and stuff and despite what I say my article actually really do like hearing from instructors and students in the piles emails that I get so I love hearing about how people are using got so if you have good user stories or interesting stories I always right now despite again in my article is oh I'd listen either but I actually do listen all the users I actually write down down all of their notes in the get hub repo as notes of like these are cool future direction. I don't think I've hundred do this. But these are awesome suggestions so right head down so once you get tenure or you wanted to take a sabbatical you wanna come back and spend some time on it. You can actually harness all that feedback. That's right yeah that's just that's always a dream of someday. I'll oh get to make some of that and then you end up getting more busy over time because every day matter just the reality of life is all right Philip. Great to chat with you as always they should be awesome. Thank you so much Michael Fake so much again you at by this has been another episode of Talk Python to me our guest in this episode. Was Philip Guo and it's been brought to you By tide lifts and Clubhouse if you run an open source project tied list wants to help you get paid for keeping it going strong. Just visit Talk Python Dot. FM Slash tide. Lift search for your package and get started today. Clubhouse is a fast and enjoyable project management platform that break down silos and brings teams together to ship value. Not Features Fall in love with project planning visit talked by on DOT FM slash clubhouse one to level up python. If you're just getting started trying my python on jump start by building ten apps course or if you're looking for something more advanced check out our new eysenck course the digs into all the different types of acing program and you can do in Python and of course if you're interested in more than one of these be sure to check out our everything bundle. It's like a subscription that never expires. Be Sure to subscribe to the show. Open your favorite pod catcher in search for Python. We should be right at the top. You can also find the itunes feed it slash itunes. The Google play feet slash play in the direct. RSS Feed at slash RSS on top by. John Donovan this is your host. Michael Kennedy thanks so much for listening. I really appreciate it. Now get out there and write some Python Code and

C. Plus twitter Python Tudor At Python Tudor University of Rochester UCSD professor programmer assistant professor Michael Kennedy San Diego John Tudor Google
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01:47 min | 4 months ago

callous

"Merriam Webster's Day for July Sixteenth. Today's word. UCSD callous spelled C. A. L. L. O. U. S. calluses, an adjective that means being hardened and thickened it can also mean having calluses or feeling no emotion or feeling or showing no sympathy for others hard-hearted. Here's the word used in a sentence from the spectator by Lloyd Evans. No Coward deliberately made the characters callous and cynical. You can't sympathize with any of them. He said if there was heart in the play. It would have been a sad story. A callous spelled C. A. L. L. U. S. is a hard thickened area of skin that develops usually from friction or irritation over time such a hardened area often leaves one less sensitive to touch, so it's no surprise that the adjective callous C.. A. L. L. O. U. S. in addition to describing skin. That's hard thick can also be used as a synonym for harsh or insensitive both words callous. L. L.. U. S. and C. A. L. L.. O. U. S. derive via Middle English from Latin, the figurative sense of callous with an oh entered English almost three hundred years after the literal sense and Robert. Louis Stevenson used it aptly when he wrote in treasure island, but indeed from what I saw, all these buccaneers were as callous as the sea they sailed on. Board of the day I'm Peter Sokolski. Visit Merriam Webster Dot com today for definitions, wordplay and trending word look ups.

Merriam Webster Merriam Webster Louis Stevenson Lloyd Evans UCSD Peter Sokolski treasure island C. A. L. L. U. C. A. L. L. O. U. A. L. L. O. U. S. Robert U. S. O. U. S. three hundred years
"The American Beauty Murder" Pt. 2: Kristin Rossum

Female Criminals

47:07 min | Last month

"The American Beauty Murder" Pt. 2: Kristin Rossum

"Due to the graphic nature of this woman's crimes. Listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of Drug Abuse, suicide and murder that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under the age of thirteen. On November Sixth Two, thousand, twenty, four year old Kristin Rossum scattered rose petals on the bed she shared with her husband twenty six year old Greg. diller's then she propped up one of their wedding photos on the nightstand it was oh so romantic. Except for the fact that her husband lay in the bed coma tose and dying kristen had given him a fatal dose of Hill, an extremely potent drug. And one she expected would go undetected in an autopsy. She waited by the bed making sure the drug had time to enter her husband's bloodstream. She was patient only when his body was cold to the touch. Did she walk into the kitchen workup some fake tears and call nine one one? Picture a murderer, a gangster, a thief. Did. You picture a woman we didn't think. So Society associates men with dangerous crimes but what happens when the perpetrator is female every Wednesday we examined the psychology motivations and atrocities of female criminals. Hi, I'm Vanessa Richardson and you're listening to female criminals spotify original from podcast. You can find episodes of female criminals and all other originals from podcast for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Last week, we discussed how Kristin Rossum from straight a student to meth addicted dropout. Then we saw her clean up her act. Thanks to the help of her boyfriend and eventual husband Greg devilliers only to then start cheating on him with her boss Michael Robertson. This week will look at how Kristen poisoned Greg and tried to pass the crime off as a dramatic suicide will follow along as authorities piece together the truth leading to Kristen's eventual arrest and trial. Using natural products is better for you, your home and the Earth finding all the natural products you need at one store used to be tough but not anymore go where I go go to grove dot co and for a limited time when my listeners go to Grove Dot Co.. Criminals, you'll get a free cleaning gift set plus free shipping with your first order. GO TO GROVE DOT CO slash criminals to get this exclusive offer that's grove dot co slash criminals. On Friday November third two, thousand, twenty, four year old Kristin Rossum went to dinner with her husband Greg and her parents Ralph and constance they were out celebrating the young couples birthdays. Kristen had just turned twenty four and Greg with twenty seven later that month. But this year kristen and Greg weren't in the mood to celebrate Greg spoke louder than normal drawing attention to their table as he ranted about a disappointing Co.. Ralph and constance shifted uncomfortably in their seats. They weren't sure what had gotten into their son-in-law constance excused herself and asked Kristen to join her in the ladies room where she pushed kristen to explain what was going on. Kristen didn't WanNa tell her mom the real reason for Greg Sour mood that he was mad at her for using meth again, and for cheating on him ashamed Kristen simply said that she and Greg were fighting about their relationship. Constant suggested kristen stay with them overnight to get some space but kristen insisted she and greg needed to work things out. Her mother never imagined that working things out would mean murder. That night Kristen Greg to bed without saying much to each other. But as she laid awake under the covers, Kristen thought about his threat Greg had demanded she stopped using drugs and call off her affair with her boss Michael Robertson. If she didn't heed inform her superiors Kristen knew that if San Diego County officials found out, one of their toxicologists was a meth user and sleeping with her manager, her career was over she was trapped no matter which choice she made she was going to lose. It wasn't fair. Why was she the one who had to give up the things she loved? Kristen had resented Greg for a while. But now that resentment threatened to boil over into rage, she wasn't his he couldn't tell her what to do. The next night kristen tried to make Greg see her side of things. But he only grew more resolute. He thought Kristen's job was a bad influence on her. He didn't think she could change while in that working environment he told her to quit her job altogether that way she wouldn't be tempted by the drugs in the office and she wouldn't see Michael Anymore. Kristen couldn't believe him. It was one thing to say she should end her affair and stop using math. Now, he wanted her to give up her career. Later in bed she tossed and turned furious she ran through all her gripes against him. He was boring judgmental controlling plus she never really wanted to marry him in the first place. Now here he was trying to take away the best parts of her life. Well, she wouldn't let him. Before we continue with Christian psychology I'm not a licenced psychiatrist or psychologist, but I have done a lot of research for the show. Psychiatrist Alison Hamilton studied female. Meth. Users who perpetrated violence her research showed that methamphetamine use often leads to heighten aggression impulsivity, paranoia and impaired decision making and those symptoms only become worse during the coming down stage Kristen's brain chemistry was permanently altered by her past drug use and on top of that, she was likely in the throes of withdrawal. As soon as had confronted her three days earlier, she'd stopped cold. Turkey. Greg didn't know it but his ultimate him couldn't have come at a worse time. Kristin was incapable of seeing her situation objectively. All Kristen understood was that her life was in jeopardy and she needed to protect herself at all costs. Greg. Was a threat that needed to be handled. The next morning Sunday November Fifth Kristen woke up with a plan while Greg slept off his hangover she went to her workplace, the Medical Examiner's office. She walked into the room where they stored all the drugs collected from the county's death scenes there on the shelf she found what she was looking for Fenton, hill an opioid that's fifty to one hundred times more potent than morphine. She grabbed it and put it in her purse. Then she headed home ready to put her plan into motion. Either late Sunday, night or early Monday morning kristen apparently drugged Greg with oxycodones and. Education she had on hand not enough to cause any serious damage just enough to knock him out he drifted in and out of consciousness throughout the night drowsy and incoherent around eight am on Monday November sixth kristen called in sick for ragged his work so that no, one would come looking for him. Then, she went to work she was desperate to see Michael. But when she got to his office, he confronted her the day before he had searched her desk concerned about her recent erratic behavior. She'd seemed off her game all week jittery and nervous to his surprise and disappointment he'd found a bag of Meth in her desk. The jitters he'd noticed were because she'd been high, he flush the drugs down the toilet to protect her. But now he wanted answers kristen broke down in tears begging for forgiveness Michael sensed coworkers, watching them through his glass door. So he told Cristin discuss it more once they were out of the office. Whether she also confessed Michael, what she had done to Greg and what she planned on doing next is. The. Rest of the morning she went back and forth between the office and her apartment fifteen minutes away. She told co workers she was checking on Greg who was under the weather. During one of those runs Christon stopped at a supermarket. There she bought a bottle of nighttime cold medicine, four cans of soup a big cigarette lighter and a single rose. All this time greg lay in bed at home drugged and asleep to medicated to move or think straight in the event he woke up. Kristen returned to work after lunch. Then she left for the last time at two thirty minutes later, Michael also left. For the next two hours or so Michael's whereabouts are unaccounted for later he claimed he and Kristin were together talking about her drug use. He'd already decided he wouldn't report her. But now, it wasn't just her career at risk. It was his. Michael. Was In jeopardy of losing his job, not just because of their affair but because he decided to help her conceal her drug use. Still don't know whether Kristen told Michael about her plan to poison greg or if she acted completely on her own either way Kristen return to her apartment on Monday evening determined to enact the final stage of her plan. She couldn't let Greg make good on his threat. With her husband still lying in bed, she drugged him with Kanada Pam, a date rape drug that in high doses make someone comatose. And then she gave him a lethal dose of Sentinel. The Fenton Hill alone was enough to kill Greg, but the other two drugs were an essential part of her cover up. As a county toxicologist, Kristen was familiar with suicides clone as a Pam and oxycodone were both often found in suicide victims and they would show up on standard tests that would be enough to rule his death an overdose. No. One would even think of looking for Fenton Hill which was a rarer drug that required specialized testing. Now all she needed to do was stage the scene kristen grabbed the rose that she had bought from the supermarket and threw back the covers she scattered the rose petals across Greg's body making it appear that he had killed himself in a final romantic gesture. Then she found a happy photo from their wedding day and placed it under his pillow. By now Gregg wasn't breathing kristen put her hand to his forehead. It was cold in all likelihood he was already dead. But she waited another half hour just to be safe. Around nine twenty Monday night kristen picked up the phone and dialed nine one one through sobs. She told the emergency operator that her husband was unconscious and not breathing the dispatcher told Cristin to pull greg off the bed and onto the floor to administer CPR Kristen panicked in her flustered state. She thought the whole scene she adjust carefully laid out would be ruined. She pulled her husband off the bed. But instead of following the CPR instructions, she just adjusted the scene. She swiped the Rose Petals from the mattress and scattered them over Greg's body on the floor. Then she grabbed the wedding photo and prompted up against the dresser next to his head. Minutes later, first responders arrived as they tried to resuscitate Greg. swept. The apartment for signs of what happened. These were officers who worked for the University of California San Diego since the building Kristen and Greg lived in was owned by the school. They found no suicide note and no signs of drug use no syringes or MD pill containers anywhere kristen cried the whole time insisting that Greg overdosed on a mixture of cough syrup clone as Pam and oxycodone. She told officers that he'd taken the drugs to help him sleep the night before. The paramedics rushed Greg to the hospital and a campus police officer drove kristen behind them. Once she got to the Waiting Room Kristen called Michael. He arrived fifteen minutes. Later he took a seat next to kristen holding her hand and comforting her they were only together in the lobby for a few minutes before a social worker came to deliver the bad news. Greg was dead. As the social worker brought her to see Greg's body kristen wailed and when she saw him dead on the bed, she laid her head on his chest and then so quietly, the social worker almost didn't hear it. She whispered I'm sorry. But. The night wasn't over just yet. Michael took her home where UCSD Detective Sergeant? Bob Jones greeted her at her door. He asked Michael to wait outside as he interviewed. Kristen about what happened. She told her carefully fabricated story she and Greg had been fighting over the weekend. He took some of her old prescriptions to help him sleep on Sunday and slept all through Monday. She came to check on him throughout the day and he had seemed fine each time after work she ran errands and then came home to take a long bath then only as she was about to get into bed, did she realise his body was cold? That was when she called nine one one. Like the officers who were first on the scene Jones saw no reason to doubt kristen. So when Kristen's data arrived, Jones allowed kristen to go with him to. Clermont. But while Detective Jones initially believed Kristen story others found it hard to swallow. Jerome. Davila's grabs brother was one of those people from the moment he heard about his brother's death he sensed something was wrong. He knew Kristen. Well, after all, he had lived with her and Greg when they first met and he knew his brother Greg had never done drugs and would have no idea where to get them but kristen had the means and the experience. Jerome didn't buy her story and he was determined to find out what really happened. Up Next Kristen desperately tries to maintain her cover. Listeners here's a new show. I can't wait for you to check out when it comes to love. Every story is unique some play out like fairy tales Lee meant be others defy the odds to achieve happily ever after in our love story, the newest spotify original from podcast you'll discover the many pathways to love as told by the actual couples who found them every Tuesday our love story celebrates the ups. Downs and pivotal moments that turned complete strangers into perfect pairs. Each episode offers an intimate glimpse inside a real life romance with couples recounting the highlights and hardships that define their love whether it's a chance encounter a former friendship or even a former enemy. Our love story proves that love can begin and blossom in the most unexpected ways. Follow our love story free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. This episode of female criminals is brought to you by simply safe simply safe was designed to be easy to use while protecting your whole home twenty, four seven. You can order it online with the click of a button once it arrived and I found the free time to set it up I was truly surprised at how simple it was to get up and running I just had to place sensors, plug it in, and once it connected to the Wifi, it was working there was no drilling, no tools no technicians simply safe is ready to protect right out of. The box as a single mom who's main job is related to true crime I. Really appreciate the peace of mind that simplisafe brings. It's worth its weight in gold simply safe really thinks everything for your family. They can help do anything from preventing fires and water damage to package theft there twenty, four, seven professional monitoring an emergency dispatch starts at only fifty cents a day. So give simply safe a try head to simplisafe dot com slash criminals and get a free hd camera that simplisafe dot com slash criminals to make sure they know that our show sent you. Now back to the story. On November Sixth Two thousand twenty four year old toxicologist Kristin Rossum poisoned her husband twenty six year old Greg dealers she drugged him with oxycodone clone as Pam and fennel a lethal mix but as news of his purported suicide spread some people found it too far fetched to believe including Greg's brother Jerome. He wasn't the only one UCSD Detective Sergeant Bob Jones initially believed Kristen story but the more he thought about it the more questions he had. Why did she dial nine one one from the kitchen phone when there was a phone by the bed why the Rose Petals on the floor and why were there any empty drug containers? Unsatisfied with his own search from the night. Jones got permission from Kristen to search her apartment again on Tuesday November seventh. Meanwhile, Kristen met with Greg's family to discuss what would happen next everyone agreed cremation was the way to go but kristen wanted it done in the next few days jerome didn't understand the rush. He also thought it was odd that she was in a hurry to go back to the apartment where her husband had just died. His suspicions were too strong to keep to himself. So on November eighth, he went to the San Diego Police Department. He told Detective Laurie Agnew that he didn't think Greg's death was a suicide and that he suspected kristen was having an affair. He also mentioned another red flag. Kristen's office was handling the death, which was a blatant conflict of interest detective agnew promised she would look into it. As Agnew made some preliminary calls, Kristen married one of her own. She spoke with the North County Cremation Service and arranged, for Greg, to be cremated as soon as the body was released back to the family unfortunately for Kristen that wouldn't be any time soon, detective agnew place to hold on the body until she could properly investigate and determine the right course of action. There would be one more important call on the afternoon of November eighth, Russ Low the man who held Michael's job before him called the UCSD police to report that Kristen and Michael were having an affair he thought it might be pertinent to the investigation. With that piece of Information Ucsd Detective, Jones determined that the case was no longer within his jurisdiction UCSD was equipped to handle suicides. But if they were dealing with potential homicide, it was time to call the San Diego Police. By then detective agnew had reached a similar conclusion. This was no suicide. It had been less than two days and already kristen story was unraveling. The Friday after Greg's death bill ledger an old friend of Greg's fluid town to Comfort Kristen. He came to her apartment and ordered pizza for the two of them. Kristen wasn't sure what to do with bill. She hadn't invited him. He had just shown up and she really didn't want to be spending her Friday evening with him. She had plan with Michael. As they sat together on the couch bill had a couple of pizza slices but kristen didn't eat more than a few bites. She was antsy and desperately needed to do some math. So she excused herself to the bathroom where she hid her stash. When she reappeared bill notice to shift in her behavior. She was very jumpy and all over the place at first he chalked it up to grief. But when he asked about how she was doing, she began talking about her feelings for Michael Not About Missing Greg. Most people in Kristen's shoes would know better than to confess feelings for another man four days after their husbands death. But according to researcher Samantha fadeaway stimulant use is related to diminished empathy. It also affects the ability to consider different perspectives which can have consequences for making moral and ethically sound decisions. Once again, drugs affected kristen's ability to judge how her actions might be received by other people. So she barreled onward telling bill that Michael was coming over soon. Bill was speechless uncomfortable. He wrapped up the leftover pizza and left Kristen and Michael continued to see each other. But though the two now had the freedom kristen desperately wanted not everything was going according to plan. She had assumed the medical examiner's office would handle Greg's toxicology testing. In fact, she had bet on it. She knew their machines weren't capable of detecting fennel and would therefore hide the real causes of Greg's death plus Michael would be the one in charge of the whole thing. If anything went wrong, she would protect her. But instead Michael Superiors the lab administrator and chief medical examiner opted to have a private lab run the tests and finally on November twenty first fifteen days after Greg's death those results came back both clone as Pam and oxycodones were found in greg system but so was a lethal dosage of Fenton Hill. The next day November twenty second detective agnew called Kristen in for an interview Kristen didn't know the test results yet and agnew wanted to question her before they were leaked up to now kristen had no idea that she might be a suspect as far as she was aware, she was just helping to wrap up the suicide investigation. But from the moment agnew laid eyes on Kristen. She knew that she was using meth. It was obvious from the sores and scabs on her skin plus she was jittery and constantly scratching her shoulder. During the interview Kristen owned up to her affair and she explained Greg's ultimatum. She even admitted that yes. She had access to the drugs found in greg system through her job but she swore she hadn't stolen them. As the interview came to a close agnew brought up the rumours that kristen had something to do with Greg's death kristen flatly denied it acting disgusted by the very idea. But she was now aware that the investigation might snowball into something bigger. Kristen wasn't the only one in the hot seat two days later on November. Twenty fourth detectives interviewed. Michael he was much more guarded and careful with his answers when questioned about his relationship with kristen he swore it was only an emotional affair not sexual with his side of the story in hand detectives wanted to re-interrogate Kristen. But after her first round of questions, she hired a lawyer now, she declined any further interviews. Meanwhile Kristen's career was in trouble by late November she and Michael were placed on administrative leave less than a week. Later, they were both fired kristen for using drugs and Michael, for not reporting her. Then on January fourth two, thousand, one detective simultaneously arrived at Kristen and Michael's homes with search warrants at Michael's they found a slew of letters and gifts from Kristen. They had known he was lying about the affair, but now they had evidence from his own home. At Christians apartment they found with despite telling Michael, she would stop she had slipped back into regular use over the past two months she was arrested for being under the influence and in possession of narcotic she was booked and taken to jail, but her parents quickly bailed her out. Deputy District Attorney Dan Goldstein Coulda filed drug charges against her but he had bigger things on his mind like prosecuting kristen for murder as he and detective agnew built up their case against her he figured it was better for him in the end if Kristen walked free. If she kept using Meth, she would hopefully slip up and incriminate herself. Even. Ask Her world crumbled. Kristen remained resolutely optimistic. She even applied for a new job although she neglected to mention that she'd been fired or that she was under investigation for murder. It worked she was soon hired at link biotechnologies. She enjoyed her new job and her workers loved her she and Michael were still together although they took care to be discreet life was stressful but it was good. But then in May Michael Return to Australia his mother was dying of breast cancer and he wanted to be by her side he and Kristen stayed in touch. But now she was all alone and though she didn't know it detectives were about to close in. On the morning of June twenty, fifth two, thousand, one, Kristen woke up and got out of bed. She trudged through the apartment that seven months earlier she had shared with her husband. Now, it was a mess her things sprawled everywhere. She stepped over close crossing Dur closet to get dressed. At seven. AM It was time for Kristen to leave but a she locked up and left the apartment she noticed something odd in the parking lot to detectives in an unmarked police vehicle they were watching her. spooked kristen hopped into her white Toyota and took off she glanced in the mirror and saw the police vehicle following after her. So a mile from her house she pulled onto interstate five a major freeway she weaved in and out of cars. Finally when she was convinced, she had lost the cops she led out a deep breath but still she was concerned, why were they following her at all? When she got to the office, she called her attorney he was out of town and he had some bad news for Kristen the cops planned on arresting her later that day kristen rushed back to her apartment with a private investigator. She wanted to get rid of any evidence of her drug use even though she wouldn't have time to flush the drugs out of her system. The time they to the building a detective was already outside ready to intercept her he handcuffed kristen on the spot read her her Miranda. And informed her that she was suspected of murdering her husband finally Kristen's plan had completely unraveled. Up Next Kristen makes a plea for her life. Sometimes. It can feel impossible to disconnect from the world around you. If you're living with stress or anxiety better, help online counseling can help better. Help has licensed professional counselors who are specialized in everything from depression and grief to self esteem and anger issues as well as variety of other matters. Better help is especially convenient. They'll assess your needs and match you with your own licensed therapist. In fact so many people have been using better help that they're recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states. If for some reason, you're not happy with your. Counselor, better help makes it easy and free to change if needed and anything you share is confidential plus better help is more affordable than traditional offline counseling. If that's not enough even offer financial aid, don't let anything interfere with your happiness or prevent you from achieving your goals. Start living a happier life today as a listener, you'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting better help dot com slash criminals join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Again, that's better. Help H. E. L. P. dot com slash criminals. Using natural products is better for you, your home and the Earth but shopping for natural products can be tough which ones actually work which ones will my local store have it can be frustrating, but it doesn't have to be because you can get everything you need from Grove collaborative groves. Online marketplace takes the guesswork out of going green. That's because every grove DOT CO product is guaranteed to be good for you, your family, your home, and the planet, and even better grove delivers healthy home beauty and personal care products straight to your. Door I love the variety of Products Grove offers I can buy for the home get beauty products housecleaning t everything to make me feel good especially in this time where our home is both work and sanctuary join over two million households who've trusted grove collaborative to make their homes happier and healthier plus shipping is fast and free on your first order. For a limited time. When my listeners go to grove dot co slash criminals, you'll get a free cleaning gift set plus free shipping with your first order go to Grove Dot C. O.. Criminals to get this exclusive offer. That's grove dot co slash criminals. Now back to the story. After poisoning, her husband twenty, four year old Kristin Rossum tried to make his death look like a suicide for nearly seven months. It appeared she might get away with it. However, authorities had been working behind closed doors to mount a case against her and on June twenty fifth two, thousand, one, they arrested her for murder. Kristen was immediately taken to Las Colinas a women's detention center outside of San Diego. But instead of going into the general population of prisoners, she was assigned to an individual cell with no cellmates. Her case was too high profile for her to fraternize with the other women. But if her case seemed high profile before it exploded the next day when the press reported her arrest, San, Diego residents were enthralled by the case which was dubbed the American beauty murder. Thanks to the Roses Kristen had scattered over Greg's body. When Kristen attended her arraignment the following week, the courtroom was packed with reporters. Everyone was intrigued by the young petite blonde who had poisoned her husband and the news media were intent on delivering drama. Kristen was charged with first degree murder with special circumstances under California law that made her eligible for the death penalty, and because she faced a potential death sentence, the judge ruled she wasn't eligible for bail. There was too much incentive to run. Kristen's married Boyfriend Markle Robertson was noticeably absent from the proceedings. He was still in Australia and he had no plans to return. And it's little wonder why? Although all the evidence against him was circumstantial it was damning not only did he have drug experience from his work as a toxicologist but it appeared he'd been doing additional research on Fenton Hill and its effects in his desk investigators found thirty seven articles on functional plus a case right up about a death caused by the drug that shared many similarities to Kristen's case. Deputy. Da Dan Goldstein, wanted to charge Michael and force him to return to the states. But without Kristen's cooperation that wasn't possible. Kristen was adamant that she hadn't murdered Greg therefore, Michael couldn't be involved. So for the next three months, she remained in jail. Then October ninth two, thousand, one, Kristen entered the courtroom for her preliminary hearing. She wore a purple dress with her hair pulled back. Her eyes were red from crying. Deputy da Goldstein needed to show the judge that enough evidence existed to bring kristen to trial. He began by stating his theory he believed that Kristen and Michael Murdered Greg together to protect their careers and their relationship. Then, he called witnesses. The most important was the previous lab manager from the medical. Examiner's Office Russ low he explained how drugs were collected from death scenes and then stored in a room that all toxicologists could access after Greg's death. He did an audit of all the drugs in the room that were also involved in the case. Discovered that Fenton Hill. Was Missing. It was a blow to Kristen's defense, but there was one silver lining the state announced. They weren't seeking the death penalty instead kristen faced life in prison without the possibility of parole. Since the death penalty was now off the table, the judge granted kristen bail at one point two, five, million dollars Kristen's parents managed to pull together enough money to cover it and they picked their daughter up from jail on January fourth two, thousand two. For the next ten months, the two sides prepared for the trial as they did media outlets followed the case tirelessly as a result of the relentless coverage Kristen was notorious in southern California and her lawyers worried about finding unbiased jurors. They tried to have the trial moved to another county, but Judge Thompson chose to wait until after selection to rule on the motion. If they were unable to seat a fair and impartial jury, then he would move trial. On October eleventh the Prosecution and defense settled on twelve jurors, five women and seven men Judge Thompson decided it was a fair jury and the case would remain in San Diego then on October Fifteenth Two thousand to nearly two years after Greg's death, the trial began. The prosecution brought expert witnesses to testify about emails recovered from Kristen Greg and Michael's computers. None of Greg's emails contained mention of Fenton Hill, or anything drug related. He never searched for Fenella on the Internet and his emails showed no signs of him being depressed suicidal or particularly interested in flowers or roses. On the other hand Michael's computer contained an incriminating file titled K are the night. Dated from November tenth two, thousand, it contained a chronology of the night greg died and there was evidence that someone had logged into Kristen's work computer while she was with her family and Clermont the day after the murder since she couldn't be in two places at once they determined it was Michael signing in and deleting files for her. As this damning evidence stacked up, kristen tried to sway the jury sometimes she smiled at them perhaps trying to get them to like her other times. She made audible objections to witness testimony making it clear. She disagreed with what was being said finally, the judge ordered her to stop interacting with the jurors in any way. After, eleven days of the prosecution presenting its case it was time for Christians defense. But most of their witnesses like Kristen's parents and Co workers who believed she was innocent fell apart under cross examination. The prosecutors painted a picture of Kristen as allying manipulative woman who wasn't to be trusted. At the end of the trial, all Kristen's hopes rested on her lawyers closing arguments. But as she listened to the prosecution's final rebuttal, her face fell up until that point she had thought her name would be cleared. She still had plans to get a graduate degree in one day run her own lab. She had genuinely believed that this was all still possible but now reality was setting in she couldn't stay in denial any longer. Though, it may not have been just denial. Kristen justified her actions to herself for so long that she may have believed her own story according to criminal psychology expert, Shad Maroon. Individuals tend to use post Hawk rationalizations to account for what they did. As Maroon put it in an interview with Vice. There are several different techniques that criminals us to neutralize values that would otherwise prohibit them from carrying out certain acts in Kristen's case she convinced herself that Greg had created circumstances where she was forced to take action and because she believed that she had no choice in the matter she believed that she would be exonerated but she heard all the evidence against her the gravity of her situations seemed to finally sink in she might not get away with it after all. Before. The jury was sent off. The judge gave them instructions although Michael Robertson wasn't officially charged in the case, the prosecution named him an. Unindicted Co conspirator that meant that even if the jurors believed that Michael had actually been the one to inject Greg with fennel than it was done in cooperation with Kristin as part of a conspiracy if this was the case, Kristen could still be found guilty of the full charge of first degree murder. The jury deliberated for three days. Then finally on November twelfth two, thousand, two, they reached their verdict. Everyone returned to the courtroom. All Eyes were on twenty seven year. Old Kristen. As judged, Thompson seat kristen trembled where she stood her hands and legs shook and she steadied herself against the table as he began to read the jury's decision. Guilty of murder in the first degree. Kristen gasped shaking her head as the tears started to flow with that verdict. There was only one sentencing option life in prison without the possibility of parole. Kristen was sent to the Central California. Women's facility. One of the largest women's prisons in the United. States. As an inmate with no chance for parole kristen was initially placed in a highly restrictive unit. After a few years she earned her way into the general population and onto yard duty. Meanwhile, her lawyers motioned for a new trial. They argued that Michael should have come back to testify on Christian's behalf but that the unindicted co-conspirator charge had scared him into staying away. The motion was denied. Even, after the trial Michael remained in Australia, some jurors have said that if he'd been on trial with her, they would have found him guilty to. But from the other side of the world, it was easy for him to maintain his innocence. For over a decade after the trial, it seemed that Michael was going to get away scot-free. But in two thousand, thirteen reporters discovered that American authorities had filed a felony conspiracy complaint against him and you'd an arrest warrant, but it seems no effort has been made to date him. It's likely that Michael Robertson will never return to the US unless he wants to be arrested he and Kristen stopped communicating during her trial. But since their break up, she has yet to say an incriminating word about him. In Two thousand, sixteen, Fourteen years after she was found guilty kristen lost her final appeal shall spend the rest of her life in prison with no hope of parole. Still to this day, her story hasn't changed whether she's holding out for a miracle or she's convinced herself of her own delusions Kristin Rossum says, she's innocent. Thanks again for tuning into female criminals, we'll be back next week with a new episode for more information on Kristin Rossum amongst the many sources we used we found poisoned love by Caitlin. Rother extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of female criminals and all other originals from podcast for free on spotify will see you next time. Female criminals is a spotify original from podcast executive producers include Max Ron Cutler sound design by Mike Ramose with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Carly Madden, and Joshua Kern. Episode of Female Criminals was written by Alex Burns with writing assistance by Abigail. Cannon I'm Vanessa Richardson. Don't forget to check out our love story the newest spotify original from podcast. Every Tuesday discover the many pathways to love as told by the actual couples who found them listen to our love story free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Disaggregated Servers with Yiying Zhang

Software Engineering Daily

57:48 min | 6 months ago

Disaggregated Servers with Yiying Zhang

"Server infrastructure traditionally consists of monolithic servers, containing all of the necessary hardware to run a computer. These different hardware components are located next to each other and do not need to communicate over a network boundary to connect the CPU and memory. LEGO S is a model for disaggregated network attached hardware lego Os disseminates the traditional operating system functionalities into loosely coupled hardware and software components by aggregating the data center, infrastructure, overall resource, usage and failure rate of server infrastructure can be improved. Yingjiang is assistant professor of computer science at UCSD her research focuses on operating systems distributed systems and data center networking. She joins the show to discuss her work in its implications for data centers. Centers and infrastructure. If you have an idea for a show, you can read about it on software daily. Dot Com. 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US Jay Frog contain a registry to search the customer editor of your repositories. You can find out more about Jay frog container registry by visiting software engineering daily Dot Com slash Jay Frock. That's software engineering daily Dot Com slash Jay frog. Being saying welcome to show. ME. You're an assistant professor at UCSD and a specific focus of yours is the idea of breaking up a monolithic tightly coupled server infrastructure. Can you explain how server infrastructure is Monolithic? What does that mean? It makes the service that you. Currently in data centers are no fundamentally. There's no difference from recco personal computer in a computer. You have everything that is needed for a competition that usually include a CPU some memory. Some storage device like a disc unless that will car that connect to the outside. So. Everything is bend owed on the motherboard, and that's packaged into a server. So that's what I mean by a Monolithic Zero Model. What would be the alternative to that? So the alternative is to break. These devices on you, not no longer have a survey. This no motherboards. Every device is directly connect network like your CPU directly connects to the network. A Nandy Ma'am writer. Connects to network starch throughout pay connects to network. When we talk about the. CPU for example being connected to the network versus connected directly to the other components. What exactly does that mean? If if you have these different components that are communicating with each other in the classic Monolithic Server Model. How does that compare to a model in which everything is going over a network? So a classic model what you can excess before you go to network s just what is in local server like CPU has can talk to the Local Service Memory Kentucky to the local service storage. Over the motherboard. But you cannot to talk to like other machines memory storage. You have to go across network. And then already software they are beauty in the way that assumes like audio. Sauce is local before you go to distribute it. So that's the traditional way, and if you break apart madness, no notion of what is local on what is remote, so trudy CPU directly connects. Everything's directly connect to the same network so like CPI can access any memory device in the same way, so there's no notion of like I'm accessing memory. That's local thirty motherboard. Accessing another machine through the general network, so everything would just be like going through the whole general purpose network, and the benefit of doing this like you got you the resource anywhere. That is available, so imagine if you had like a memory devices connected network, a steep processors could not duty network when running application code can be executing our one of the CPU and memory could be. Some of memory could be on memory one. Some could be memory hundred. Some can be a memory thousand. Ns No like like conceptually that's no difference of how accessories different memory, and then suddenly you can access a lot more of them. Obviously that sounds advantageous if I can just. Have this disaggregated computer than I could. Easily Bolt on. New Memory. Modules and new CPU's or teepee used I could. I mean the the work that you've done. Is Lego s and you can imagine just. These building blocks fitting together more harmoniously than a monolithic system. I'd really like to get a better understanding of what that means. As far as the connectivity. Because the Monolithic Model I can imagine there are advantages to this direct connection I don't know much about hardware interfaces or the the interfaces between these different components, and how that compares to what you get if you network all these things together. Can you tell me more about that? Yeah, that's a very good question. So what I described is like a future vision where everything could connect to same that and we can zoom. You can have the same performance. To whenever you access any component in this network. That's different from today's world where you have a local by the board local bus that is much faster than the general purpose network that connects different machines different service. And also the interface would be different, so this definitely would be a lot of our changes before we can reach admission. But the good news is that like data center networks? Nee are becoming much much much faster these days on their improving at a rate that is faster than CPU, so the frequency of network in data center. They increased much faster than pugh frequency. Which means at some point, we'll have network being fast enough that so that like you don't. You don't really have to care where it. What's the other end that you're talking to? So? It's always gonNA. Sue the same Mary fast that work. But there's obviously a lot of problems that need to be solved at. Maybe we will not get to. That mission may be. There will still be some hierarchy. So the current model is you have a hierarchy of basically that you? Like local bus, the fastest network, but you make a various Moscow. You can only excess Snow Sarah Analogy. Next level would be like Iraq which is slower than men aboard by still quite fast, and you got to like like one hundred like some tens of machines and Max lava would be slowing. Get more machines. Now some hierarchy in India that will, if we want to excess about so this hierarchy may still exist, but like a general. The network speed is improving much faster. than the local bus speak than the CPU frequency, and that's why at some point we would be able to both have good performance and have a reasonable amount of US capability. And the the model that you're suggesting this disaggregated. Server infrastructure we had a show recently with aws, and they have these nitro security chips. They have these dedicated. I O chips. It seems like they're doing work that. Is is related to this I. Mean they're what they are doing as I understand, they're making custom a six that that dedicate. A hardware device to. Fulfilling certain operations or certain classes of operations. How does that relate to what you're proposing? So I think their model is like you will never need a and the need comes from like puled not scaling as Moss Law. They're slowing down and that's why people are looking at other. Other type of processors are the type of hardware, and once you do that. You have a lot of heterogeneous types of hardware and the traditional service. They're really designed for not not really designed for handling heterogeneous hardware, so they were designed for like CPU memory storage like a standard server architecture. Once you get have more like heterogeneity nine. You need to think about how to connect these heterogeneous devices. Should we still use the standard motherboard and the thing is? You may have the need to like. Add remove devices, so if still like having the traditional server model now. The problem I think this is also a problem. That really doesn't his face instead they have the need to add new hardware new types of hardware, but before that they have to I think or do I have enough Pi slots Like what this best standard woke with this new hardware. And as this need becomes like more and more pressing. I think it's time to rethink how we could not be different devices I think about a way that's more flexible, so if ever Eric could have like a standard way of connecting to that work. When you want to add you don't need to think about. If I have a slot in my server, just add them to the Genoa network anonymity. Can this go, but of course you need it on of software support network support to make this happen, but I think this idea of this aggregation also fits this a general trend of having more heterogenous hardware devices. The way that things are done today is if I have an application that needs to scale I can just create these different components in a cloud provider like I can spin up a dedicated instance for my machine learning that instance maybe it has tpu at tensor processing unit on it if I need a bunch of different instances of micro services then I spin up another certain kind of instance for those different micro services. If I, need A. CACHING server, maybe I spin up a instance of a computer that has a lot of memory on it, and this works pretty well. Why is there anything wrong with this model of the current way of pooling resources and distributing resources and allocating resources? So I think this can be also from your sides in Saudi I side as from the cloud providers view. So forty crowd providers they have to allocate resources for a rotor machine for container and the current way. You have to run the virtual machine container inside once-over like a virtual machine. You cannot like spend them across multiple service. And what could end end up happening is that you have like some machine that has used a office. CPU must have a lot of memory left, and another rushing has always memory occupied, but still have sepia costs left. And because you have to allocate run virtual machine art container. Machine! Like machines, memory and the second machine CPU costs they are wasted. And because of this, they the center, they are actually seeing not very good CPU memory utilization. And if you quitting crew. Assaulted has Asian by even one percent it's it means like I don't know how many how many dollars, but definitely a lot of money for cloud providers, so Indus acted view. This, no such waste because you can. Application basically runs on dish. Buddhist set off a set hardware devices. It can have memory from any device it can run. Like threats on any CPU cost a now wounded. Be This like waste your sauce, so that's from. PROVIDE US BOOT so from I would say the from night. The called uses view one trend is a least certain amount of cloud uses they would. Want to move to this. What what people cost several? This model where you don't need to care about clusters. You don't need to care about service. You just run a program. You have some data on new leaf. It audie rest to the cloud providers. So for this type of customized. They don't really want to care. They don't want to manage like where exactly. Office running is running this memory on on that depew so I watch save for this type of trend it would be. Beneficial if we could have a disaggregated. Architecture and then called provider. What decide what to allocate for this service from Ching? And when you talk to cloud providers, people from cloud providers about this idea. What's their response? I talked to several, and then so in general, the current status is almost audie cloud major data centers. They're already desegregating storage. So that's quite standard. Already like facebook has a separate storage core separate. Ma'am Cash Steve Pool an Amazon has separated. E. E. B. S.. S. Three and that same for Alibaba, so they also have decided in storage, so storage is considered Christ standard to be disaggregated. Recently certain data scientists, they're thinking about going like one step further into decelerating person memory number of town memory like Intel. Even aggregating memory. But one of the major concern, probably I wouldn't say from which may accompany, but it's a major lead US cloud provider is the failure. Mardell of disaggregated memory. Because now it makes the whole failure. Hang more complex. If one memory fail this memory device, it could stall memory contents for different applications that are running on the difference GPO processes. So. How do you deal with this failure failure scenario? And if dealing with Fania means that you need to. Use warmer than it basically defeats the already know when of yard you know main purpose that is you could. Tight tightening the results packing. You have added results who had issue, but if you end up like using more memory just to provide this reliability guarantees than cost-wise. It basically offset the cost benefit of yours united, so that is not major fight of this this whole idea I think. Could, you talk about them in more detail? What are the? Trade offs in that what you just described like I. I I'm not sure I fully understood what you are getting. So like the original one of the main benefits of desegregating resources. That you can allocate the results from any component. So, you will have least amount of waste so currently data centers. They have like almost fifty percents off the memory. They are not used. Even well, there's. Jobs and that that is the scenario described to you so if we could just segregate now, ideally, we could include this too close to one hundred percent, so that means like close to two x improvement. In results utilization, and if it's too improvement, Mace. Fifty percent cost cuts. And then the problem is. If we want reliability, you should the easiest way to do. That is through a replication. So if you keep to axe replication. Of Your mammy content that means you need to axe the memory space, and that offset the fifty percents costs that you actually bought with this idea. So we definitely, this is a new stadia. Issue is a new problem, so I don't think it's unsellable, but it's definitely a hard problem, so they're actually have already been some recent research. Walk in reducing this to less than two acts. On some other ways, so if you could reduce it to lessen to acts, and then you're benefit is like to axe overall us still having cost saving. Benefits that talk about. So? Are you saying that? If you aggregate than your memory, constraints are the memory that you have to waste in order to get. Reliability is going to be. Less. So first. Let's say we don't provide any reliability. Just by desegregating optimally, you could improve resource utilization. By two X, so the current is around fifty sixty percent utilization, and we could improve ninety hundred percent So, that is without replication so the current service they don't replicate memory. And when we decided that say if we don't rapid memory, so that's the cost saving that. You're going to get the resuscitation improvement that you're going to get. But the problem is we are making Fadia handle any more complex because now like your program in scattered around of manage device. Many devices any of them. If they fail, they could affect your program. Unto with that the easiest way is to always have a replica. And having a replica minks, you're doubling the space usage, so that's one of downside, but like Mrs. just the easiest way off dating with with failure failures, and it's almost like too much that you need to do so. That's like a prone. So with better ideas by the highest, it could be less than two X.. So you're saying that you could look. How would you replicate something without having to x the memory utilization? If I if I spent up some micro service on container, A and I wanNA. Have I WANNA? Have that service replicated? Or database same thing caching server. Whatever how can I avoid having to X.. So this has actor already been done. Don't tracks is exact copy. You don't need to axe to prevent when failure and this idea has been already applied to storage like Microsoft issue and that's called erasure coding. erasure coding is like according Sierra that you could use like X. X-press K.. Copies like not copies experts k units to stall data that is act, so the extra K. is like some extra information and K is less axel experts. K is than two X, but with smart coatings. Europe like ex law some other coding theory nine. You could go down to. Like one point one point something. And still. Be Able to handle when normal typical device And so traditionally, this has been applied to storage because storage. You also need you like handle failure. And Microsoft and company wanted to save costs, so they don't want to go to to acts, so that's why they're using this. These coating erasure coding theory by the problem of lattice. It's usually like there's some software overhead to calculate these codes, and if you want to apply that memory, which is very fast, you need another way, so there are like other research group solving this problem. The kinds of erasure coding that you're describing. Is that like kind of like what raid story? Yeah, it's. It's more complex than raid five rate six UK-US think of it as that so like a two x instinct list. That's two eight one. If you go to great five rate six. You got like last onto X.. Cool, so you're saying to get that at memory. Speed is more difficult. There's more constraints because I think with raid. If there's a failure, there's some isn't there some time to that. It takes to reconstruct everything, and maybe that's not permissible with a memory system. It's more like the run time overhead, so you need CPU cycles to calculate. These codes, so this software overhead to calculating these extra bits bids. Are Tara horrible storage, because storage is slow, but now if you're talking about memory speed, miss could be significant, and you need that for every read and write. If they want to use racial recording so that this is not the only way to solve reliability. But that's like one of the problems that some of the researchers. They're country sovereign. When you spend your spare time. You can accelerate your career. O'Reilly lets you learn through high quality, books, videos, courses and interactive experiences. O'Reilly. Content has been built over decades. There are trusted source of effective technology education. If you're an individual leveling up on your own, you can use oh riley to chart a course four your career goals, and if you manage a team or a company, you can get access to O'Reilly's career developing resources for your whole organization. Go to software engineering daily DOT COM slash O'Reilly to explore a Riley's e learning experiences. You can build the skills. You need to future proof your career. Checkout software engineering daily Dot Com Slash O'Reilly and thank you to a Riley for being a partner with software engineering daily for many years now. Okay let's take a step back so. If we're trying to. You're laying out a world of disaggregated server infrastructure and what I wonder. Is You know since you're coming at it from the research perspective? Do, you see as. A thought experiment that you're doing or are you trying to lay out a vision for actual? Actual new kind of server infrastructure that you'd like to put into practice and you'd like to build servers around this and see this actually come to production. Yeah that's very good crashing so I like. My philosophy of the research is, we should always be with real systems, and that's what my group is proud of, but the original research ideal. We usually try to take a all visionary idea. That tried to push things like stretch to some stretching of idea on the mission is what I talked about like. Everything is cleanly competely separated. You have processes directly connecting to network memory directly connected to at work. So that is a very nice vision, but. We need to think about how data centers could actually deploy this idea and the problem of that is data centers. The already have like millions of service inside. You cannot tell them to throw them all away. So that's that's like a like a practical problem, but we don't have to so the second version that we are currently working out s to think about how to practically deploy idea with today's data center, so don't wait for future. A liter didn't maybe it will become our vision. Maybe it won't won't, but current data centers the already have the need. The biggest need estimate basically just need more memory to run their run the application, because if you look at all these data machine learning a deep printing applications. They do need a lot more memory, so that's like one of the starting angle that we we are. Currently working out to be able to incorporate this disability idea into today's data centers, so not like changing the service, but having like a nother layer that adds on so let's say if you want to add this aggregated marry now. We just connect. These disagreed the memory. Tutti Networks that service so the service would more be more like compute focused a naked now excess. It's disintegrated memory layer through a general purpose network. and. We are building real. We have across finishing gooding real hardware for this Desaguadero memory layer. That's interesting. We had another show fairly recently. There's a project called cloudburst out of Berkeley I think and I don't know if you saw that paper, but the premises. Who I guess the question he was approaching in his research is how do we get to stateful functions service? How do we have stateful service functions and? His answer is his basically just give a big shared memory cluster to all the different service functions. You know pretty pretty straightforward. Implementing some kind of shared memory system in server infrastructure. You're also talking about. You're interested in service functions. Can you tell me more about what you're talking about there with the kind of shared memory component that you're exploring? Yeah so that's a very good angle. And that is exactly one of the major usage scenario. We think our dissected memory could be used for, and I'm aware of deep somebody's Brisk Walk so like you can view this this audience memory. You can view like adding like a bunch of member into like a memory pool. and. You can use it for many things so I is. You could just like us if you are running out of that could allocate more memory from this poop, and we're providing it in a very fast way. UNANDI separate way to use is to use it more like sharing and the state sharing an estate storage area, a fast one that would allow different compute service to save. She had state and to communicate. So that's a second MIRA common usage that refurbishing our disaggregated memory Pu would be on. The Nice thing is like by just managing so one of the major benefits that Bena Centrists, they light about the idea of disaggregation besides audio. Besides all like conceptual like this, booed for conceptual review. Its manageability. So. If you're managing things separately, you could basically upgrade your memory service you could. Like add more memory. Like remove more memory so off managing this pool can be completely separated from managing compute pool from mandating storage pool, so they sent us and clouds. They are seeing real benefit. A new storage site by actually managing the storage separately so when they are changing their storage who? It's not affecting the compute at all. So this is more like day to day like a engineering benefit, so this is the same benefit we have. When we have the segmented memory, so you can scale this differently from skating compute service, so if like next month you'll find that your data centers have need for more applications in data scientists. They have need for more memory. You just go purchase more. Mary Anne Large Memory. And then if next month you find, you need more computer. Just buy more compute service, and then because like when you're adding memory service into your memory pool. We made it in a way that it separated from the compute, so it's transparent and you can manage all you. Let's say next month. You want you deploy a new service into Demari who that is like. He stall a cash. D You could just update. That changed the service without affecting the compute side. So. That's the other nice thing about disaggregation. Got It in what I'm having a little bit of trouble. Understanding is again. This is providing some modulated to the data center operator. And from the average. User like the application developer, the average application developer is not thinking you know. Can I get a new hardware component to get better memory allocation? They're thinking. Can I just cannot get a better memory allocation. They're thinking from the application point of view. The data center operator. Has has different concerns than the application operators I. Guess I'm trying to understand you know. What is in it for the data center operator in what is in it for the application developer who does the disaggregation? The the server disaggregation serve most beneficially. That's a good question so I. Think it's. It's like a combination of all. On some of deep benefit is indirect so I will say the direct benefit. To Data Center. Providers as cost-saving. To data center operators. It's more manageability. And now the direct. Benefit to users is that they don't need to manage service. They don't need to know how much memory they need to allocate like when you're like like inquiry. configuring a new instance, you need to know like how much memory architecture would need, and you need to set that ahead of time, and that's usually said by the it department off your company. That's using cloud. Usually, don't stay perfect way because you know like time would would be used so in our vision. We don't need this like scope of setting crease adding some fix amount of resource, it is allocated as the application goals. You're paying exactly what they are using. Instead of paying for at say affixed. A sixteen. Memory if application. His youth seemed like two DB this time three DB at a time. That's exactly what the data scientists would allocate for you, and that's what exactly you will be painful. So, that's the direct benefit to produce an indirect benefit would be if college provide us. They could a holiday Chris Save. They're holding sent us running cost now. They can offer a bad by the price to the uses. Okay so you're saying that the disaggregation would lead to better allocation. It would lead to more accurate. Rather than over-allocation, yeah, yes, okay so. You work on Lego and in a typical operating system. You have CPU and memory bundled together and. The premise of Lego is that. Aggregate the hardware. You need a new kind of operating system, and that's one that you're building. So. Why couldn't you just have a traditional operating system work in a disaggregated hardware setting? Why do we need a new kind of operating system? So I is, you could always like challenge existing one into something that you you want, but the change in this case would be very significant. You better as well this new. On the recent that is like Audie of traditional OAS. The Zoom I have local excess to all. Eat with us that need. Like when you're allocating memory, the allocation is local. You don't go across network and that's something that's handled by current or us on similarly to other things, but now if we have memory that's across network. And who manages that memory? So if you're still on to manage that memory like like translating physical memory to virtual memory, providing address as all these functionalities, if you're still on to manage that with traditional hours. It's like you need basically to rewrite the over to Rama System, and because Nago memory physical memory skies across multiple components over the network. And now you want to boot virtual memory address space out of this like no existing US activists that. One example, their many cases like your process can run can be running on different processes. And how does a tradition I? It only manages a single post, so that's why it becomes both like I. Guess you booted eighty same layer like the. Processing? They're completely. You're distributing that memory disagreeing that you're also distributing like this aggregating your demand earlier from the completely and if we are doing all that like you need to also distribute the. Which is the? Key Tell me more about the main design principles of Lego S. So the main design principle as we manage the hardware at Eddie had ways. So we manage. At memory device. We don't manage memory. We. Don't run D. memory management software at the CPU. So that's the traditional wet right so like all the whole s romancing CPU it manages. It manages pitted manitou storage. So what we are saying is the management off. The device should be low colt with the device, so if you want to manage memory, the management software should run at that. Manage memory device. If you're managing storage that management software, which is, defosset should run at a storage device, so that's one principal. The other principal is to have a distributed view. Off The operating system so to have booting support for network communication to have buildings of for failure handling. So these are the two major designed principals at the principal why we think that it's possible to manage things local with vice, if that if you look at devices today near becoming what people call smarter, so you have smart SSD's. Smart Knicks so that makes the device. It has some processing power internally so some small controller that can run some somewhat patients, so that makes it is possible to read a piece of the. Functionality added device at these smart devices, and that's what made the first principle actually feasible. The LEGO has a split kernel architecture. Can. Can you explain what a split kernel architectures? That's basically. What? I just described so yes, splitting s functionality into different pieces. You'll run each piece local at the device and the whole thing SSD disability system. Is there any difficulty in deciding what components of colonel to to split up and assigned to different devices that aren't there isn't there like overlapping functionality across the kernel that you might need to run on each of those devices. That's an excellent question, so if you look at today's Lena. Like everything is sort of combined. England only next has a lot of Mario moderize a lot of things, but fundamentally did on principle is a lot of things intertwined island for example like India. Like, we usually say that everything is just a foul hand dollar. Unlike? The network when opened the network connection you got to? Like. The scripture back and that part is like mingled with with the like another layer, so but if you look at, it feels away, what existing oasis they're doing. If you're thinking about the original purpose of an us that the purpose of us is to manage hardware, and what choice them. A new safer that now you've seen the new hardware architecture which separated. You just think about. I want to now manage memory. So what do I need to manage memory on? What do I need to watch mommy and that's the part I run at memory. So if you come from not on view, NANU gotTA design, that could be cleanly separated. Got It in the architecture. Has Something called a? V. Node, what is Avena? So that's basically like an abstraction. Not We provide to users that is more like a just like a container or virtual machine. So we want to hide the physical disaggregation nature from the uses so that we could continue rand existing applications without asking them to change their sauce. Call Kodo even to compile so below as currently it could run and mortified the Knicks, binary. And the next binary, it was assuming that like everything is in a monolithic service, sold the virtual nodes like a virtual concept that we create attractive virtual machine are container to users, and they could basically just like getting the note. And then underlying to. 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Data Doc You can start that free trial and get a free t shirt. Go to software engineering daily Dot Com slash data, dot. So. Programming an operating system. Even by the traditional standards is pretty challenging, if I'm creating a monolithic operating system. That just not an easy thing to do, and you're designing and programming a completely new type of operating system. What is? Biggest challenge that you faced in implementing this thing from the software and hardware side. Yeah, so that that's interesting so like in the beginning we just thought Oh. This is really quite. It fits audie hardware transafrica chance. We should wit. And now we just N. we look that we did for look at existing sensing easier to change them. Then we found. It's better to get that from from from scratch on Buddha new operating system. Unsurprisingly the Biggest challenge at least the ones that we didn't expect. A building drivers on supporting a modified LEAN KNICKS ABC's. So. Building drivers at because this is traditionally done by the device beauties, and we have to put our own drivers, so what we did is we activate potted, only limited amount of drivers from Lennox. But we emission. If someone is going to do this, they would like different devices providers. They were disputed on on drivers. The other thing is our go on. This goal may be too aggressive, so we want to run unmodified the. By, the race, so not not even need new to re compile so for that. We have to follow exactly the. System call interfaces like Ottawa to like a parameter a return value. So, that actually took a lot of time on is passionate because our underlying layers completely different from Lennox, so we actually added like a thing layer on top of legal allies to basically translate the next. This cost into our system costs on. That doctrine ended up taking a lot of time. While, so you built a full sis. Call translation interface. That's what you're saying. It's not full by the time went when we are published we, I think we supported one hundred thirty. Some comments system call. Since some comments, system costs not like a complete. But. We were able to run flow as other complex application without any modification of their bodies. So, let's talk about that like tensor flow for example, if you are running tensor flow across disaggregated hardware, what are the different hardware components that? The tensor flow run times going to be spread across in what do those? Interfaces look like those different hardware facets. Like, this is actually the underlying the second nature, and what devices the EPICA patients running is actor hidden? From detention flow so true them just running like a normal flow program, but underlying the main thing is we are. Its memory! And the Nice thing got fits. All model is tensor flows like combination and mimics Espada. So it actually fattest, what is called a mini badge and then a actress it from like slower storage me an update. Fatty will do like a a lot of competition on that media batch, so our model is bags are pro set aside. It still has some like small. Memory and we allow US project we act to configure. That's more memory as another level of cash, so it would divest would like application model. That could fitness this Doctor Essa applications that behave locality except member accessible cavities, attentive Royce. Because, it's like you don't candidate is found in this many batch, and that's like, but this is all hidden from from the application, and of occasionally would just loaned it naturally what you load the many badge and that would. Run in the extra level of cash new processor. Okay and can you tell me more about what you learned when you were running tensor flow across your desegregated hardware? Yeah so once the is this may really helped us. This program behavior of fo- program behavior of badge. If, many badge is too big than what your processor can fit. Nine in needs to make more network round trips to the maverick. So, that's the first thing and then again or when we're evaluating something surprising to us is the network was not the bottleneck? The Bottleneck was our memory memories implementation so when we build lack of us. We didn't really have real hardware desegregated memory devices. Storage devices, so we were just using CPU costs on the NAMO server. As if they are the memory device, announced the memory device and needs to process requests that are coming from a lot of processes Sudi network. Originally we thought network would be bottleneck, but network was not a bottleneck. It's deep processing at the memory side so I side. You need to have a lot of concurrent access is coming from the network at what could be a hundred GPS Annandale basically just. Like holding your network card and got these this requests. And just translating them from Retro to Physical Memory, you don't it cannot just by using like a general purpose, Pugh, you cannot keep up with the network speed, and that eventually limit. Application performance unless why we started the real hardware product that we currently close to finishing, and that would use another hardware that is not CPU, that is cheaper than superbeets, actually a scale spider and that could. Sustain this very high network. Nine rate. I see so. You'RE GONNA define. You're gonNA build specific hardware for the to replace the CPU in the disaggregated setup. NEW CPU to compute aside to compete aside current be CPO based process BG. It could be. That's the compute side so what I was talking about as memory side so the memory side I talked about you want to run some management demand rate local at memory. Device, so if you're using a CPU to run those memory management software. Even though you think that's something that simple to do, just using a CPU and a limited number, of course, you're not going to keep up with the high network line rate, so memory bandwidth is. Network is could be as fast as one hundred ups already knew bottleneck issue, management software off Dimambro, and you don't want to run that. That's too costly and that's not going to scale. So that's that we really. Okay I! WanNa Talk so much in your research that be interesting to discuss. I just want to jump to a different topic, which is machine learning to help build operating systems? Can talk about this in some detail. How could machine learning be used to improve the development of an operating system? So. This is a new direction that we recently started. On the funeral cuts always booting. It's a lot of just like human factors in it so under lot of heuristic. Under your deciding this before you know the applications and applications, day can change very rapidly these days, but once you decide, let's say a CPU, scheduling policy a memory replacement policy. You Boo that into your own us. It's very difficult. It's ready changed although you have different than potatoes running on them and when you're designing these policies. You don't really know what is the best a you can only come from a heuristic point of view an. It's just like human factor in this, so that's one case where a traditionally that there's not not so much need because you occasion doesn't change that often, and you don't really you just Buddha general purpose. Os, and that's good enough for most applications, but now if you really want to be better choices for these new type of petitions, unto me the like speed of how. Develop. You want to think of a way that like leaves the human factor out and could automatically. Change adopted Os different occasions. That is that is enough motivation and the other thing is like after boot on us. If they're running the next, you have to configure off things on this configuration. It's just like another human factor a new like oftentimes you would tap some configuration of problems and you need to go back on all this and that, so that's Mara Complex. You don't want to write. It will be better for machines to do that and finally it's just like it does take time to write os components, but if you could have a way to automatically generate these component than that's another way of saving human time using machine to do that, so that was the original like big wishing that we have. Some specific decisions that could in an operating system that could be improved by machine learning like I think about scheduling for example, are there specific areas of operating systems that you think could be improved by machine learning? So there are many places like this that could be improved like scheduling decisions, but instead of once guiding decision if you can learn like the behavior of programs that are currently running on this specific sever. And y'all US basically just adapt to. Adopt. The CPU scheduling policy to that. Of the -cation type of occasion that is running on this server server is running another application. You don't need to change the Os but the If it's a model now niche could learn and adapt scheduling decision, and similarly if we want to do like Mommy allocation amount, replacement, false, his tongue of disk allocation a lot of these decision making. You could like if you use a machine to do that. It could be done more like figure application. But the biggest challenge of using machine learning for US versus like US machine many other domains is that I need to run very fast and second always needs to be always correct. Answer it while you need like automation, nate, you need to data. You have you need to collect data so that you can so these are the three main. Issues like. That, we will face while we used to Budo us. Like machine, learning their traditionally like us, we sacrificed a lot of like accuracy. Basically you don't go for like a perfect Mammo placement policy. You go for like approximate so that it can revert foster. A now machine learning if you want to machine learning. It's it cannot be as fast for is like. If you want to run that in, keep you. You have to cross the bus from up to GP and also at if you want to win CPU some like it won't be run as fast so there are many like veto issues like this and the snake oils cannot be wrong, so if accessing memory and you if using any model to say I have a model of credit that this much, my yards should match you this physical memory address and the highest like ninety percents confidence, but like you cannot access around memory address, so s is like absolute. Correct, but Michigan is like statistical by nature. So how you solve that problem you almost like have to have a fail over mechanism to deal with the like the natural inaccuracy, Saudi machine, many models, and if you want you like crack trace that data sad that you want to learn like. Ask Pardon storage access pattern like CPU like access. Now, you need to find a very efficient way to do that at run time. Because that run, you'd want to add any more overhead and also need to think about where to start them so now all these. Major. Challenges Nasty you need to be solved. Well. It's been really fun talking to you. And I appreciate the depth and the breadth of the work that you're doing so keep up the good work and I i. look forward to seeing what else you come out with in the future. Thank you? This is bad.

US Microsoft Knicks Mary Anne India UCSD Jay Frock principal editor
Neira Jones

Human Factor Security

47:33 min | 11 months ago

Neira Jones

"Welcome to the human factor podcast hosted by the People Hacker Jenny Radcliffe warning. Thank you may reveal more than you think. This episode of the Human Factor Security podcast was sponsored by safe. Pass the Enterprise Solution Lucien to comprehensively protect all of your uses from choosing a compromise pathways visit safe past dot me for more details and tell them the human factor security sent you a new guy. Sweet sweet ten percent discount. Thank you to save fast for sponsoring the show. Hi Everyone AH welcome to this special edition of the human factor because special because I think when he gonNa go near Jones on the show. Welcome a friend. Thank you so so much for having me Jenny menacing till podcasts. For for a while now so I feel privileged to be on it today. flashed me but so so pleased that you will make the time for is there. I just have to tell you before guests come on the show. We do research on. You're a complete nightmare because because it's so much done so many things I could speak. Sometimes I mean. I'm sure everyone as eva for anyone who doesn't Near it as I mean I've been in. The industry fell for a while. But you specialize on advise and organizations on so many things we got payments and Fintech and ragtag regulations and cybercrime and tissue innovation. I mean you really have brought road experience near thank you so much you know. It said it's raw a puny by by Luck Jenny. Because as you will know yourself with the kind of jobs and activities you do all of these things are intrinsically linked. It was just fortunate that started my career in financial services and then there fell into security and fraud prevention by regulations. So it offered said like a very knicks puzzle. I agree to certain extent. I believe that much in look near I believe in hardware and I think you can see that. That's Avid I mean when we will look into we look sometimes at awards for example and let me sauce. Look at all the awards. She won by accident. My assistant actually really said it's the so many she get. You have to look at all. Should I call you type in if I believe in. Look so much but you right. It's all interconnected active and also and just. I met near recently at an event that we were both on. You always. I mean you French so you also incredibly chic yours does make me feel like I should do my nails or something before. So let's let's start. I'd like to talk to you a little bit about your career but like how you go into the field because it was interesting to the gas to the listeners to know about the gas background yeah sure. Let's start with. Did you study stoody. I mean I knew that you did. You studied business but with a computer science on as well is that right. Yeah that that. That's great I mean in our I always was a into technology. Search search as it was all those years ago. Our remember very very cherished Texas instruments Ti. I fifty seven. which was the first programmable calculator on on the market certainly in trump's so I was a bit nerdy at the time and I got one of those in the U.? It Hugh some sort of a basic like thank language and you could make a rocket fly and try to make it fly before returning to fuel army that was magnificient addressed absolutely adored it now a it. Our ICT wasn't part of the curriculum. At the at the time. When you are at school so I I am became a member of all all sorts of after school clubs which involves lots of boys wearing a very secret glasses? I you know I stereotype. But Anyway I was one of those at and had great one and And then because it was basically tradition in my family when I finished Doing my mind baccalaureate which I think is the equivalent of your your levels here I I did what everyone in my family which went and started medicine to become a doctor so so I I didn't complete the first year because I actually found found it extremely boring. There is lot start studying medicine certainly in the first year in my experience. It's a lot of reading on the lot of learning by heart and a lot of like theory. Don't don't get me wrong but the interesting bits. which were you know the experiments arguments and what you would do like like you would call Anina? Chemistry Class The only thing you had was essentially dissections which were done and I hope your your redesign not squeamish wish which were done on the on bodies that had been donated to science. Sometimes it's people that have. No families denied their bodies. And there were not many of those so So essentially that were recycled so once you cut the map stitching backup against God did she. Did you look gang activity. So you're in this causes during during the Sections and there are quite a lot of people All students rather a Like I actually registered because I like to see how things work. So it's like Dismantling your toy car. You're looking at the things that was the only thing impractical and interesting and then I consider the kind of cure you would have for any kind of interesting career in medicine. In my opinion I would have considered becoming a surgeon or even the microsurgery but then we're looking at what ten years down the line signed to do that thing and I wasn't prepared to To wait that long so so I stopped and I remembered that I really was interested within technology and IT and computers and all of these things so our decided. Well why not. An Fund is very interesting Curriculum Guillem in this particular university which combined a business studies as well as As well as it. So you know the wide range of of disciplines you may have which included you know networking and assembly language programming and and also things like Cacao in macroeconomics and all of those things that you would expect in in business. I absolutely sorely enjoy that so I did my master's disagree In that which also involved in going to enterprise at the end of at the end of the at the end of foyer and essentially I started take my career believe it or not as a programmer in a bank. Wow Gino this is so interesting to me. We have a lot of guests on that. Say they used to like to take things apart. Put them back together when they study. I think the first one that's ever done that with cadavers. That's very interesting but then obviously I mean you got to to the course that you just described with the computers in the business this really is technology and business is really where you thrive absolutely. I mean if everyone I see him very focused on things like bringing tech issues to the board answer getting that attention in the industry so that makes sense to me that that's what you studied. Yes yeah so so. That's what I did not enjoy. It enjoyed it since under than Got My first job with with the bank hours obviously a- a- program grandma and then he hit intervals because I also like here which is probably why. Also I'm one of those Nardi. People pulled that really like regulations. I like reading regulations over and over again. Kissy what they're really really about. So I became a analyst are after having been the program because I really like Like methodologies doing things in a structured fashion a and And then because I also really liked technology. So I'm moved you know Taniguchi from working for banks or for working for dignity companies of in financial services so about the bank's network for Oracle on the financial services side than our for banks than work for Unisys on the financial subside. Then worked for banks and always in retail banking and and then that's how I ended up a working for for Barclaycard. which is my last COPA job? Because as my career evolved at and I'm sure lot of people who have followed a similar path we less empathize sympathize with this. I became really interested in change management. So my my last year with the with the bank before John Barclay were actually in change management so managing change programs And essentially making being very very big changes soil as a program director for a very long time went to a very large bank migration and one of the migration was the insourcing gopher debit and credit cards for from a debit and credit card provider to to the in house architecture trove that particular bank And when you're in change management you know what you need to do to deploy your project. What you don't necessarily understand is the INS and outs of the business but what I got out of that is wow cup? Payments is a completely different world and it intrigued me enough that when it was time for me to move on That really caught payments and payments in general Hula. Very interesting and I wanted to find a job in change management in in that particular spice so am sure you will so sympathized with that Jenny. What life balance is extremely important to me? I don't want to be on the road all the time. I want to enjoy what I I do want to do it. With people I like logic that resonates it's so so essentially a had the bit of time to to to think about this and I drew a twenty mile radius around my have I said okay I I need to find a company. That's within twenty miles of my house and the need to have To set number of criteria the first is criteria they need to be a nominative company or a company got essentially want to innovate. Even if they're not there there is a will will there for them to innovate Secondly it needs to be a grand that I'm very happy to be associated with because at the time this was this was still my corporate days. You know I want to work full Brennan's so so I do a twenty mile righteous and found two brands one was Barclaycard and the other one was bt. Okay and the because of what I told you earlier in terms of I was really really intrigued with with payment and Barclaycard at the time was seen as being very innovative company so I approached them and essentially want to change director. And I said hello so this is this is my CV. Give us a job and the lady was very very charming. She agreed to have coffee with me. We we had coffee and we we discussed you know various bits and pieces and she said you know wanted to meet you because you have an interesting city. I haven't got to drop to offer you but if you don't mind keep your CV on Friday. So that was very nice of her to to meet me and I went back home and the caradon searching and so on and so forth. A couple of weeks later She contacts me and she said you know I might have a job for you. and I don't know if you're going to be interested in it but you know you never know his his drug SPEC now Jenny. Brace Yourself I opened the drug SPEC and the job SPEC said Pissy idea says program director while so I'm looking at this trump's pick on a piece that's what the Hell it looked at it sets Bregman card industry good so good so far anything about payment. But that's what I want to bait data security standard so my first my first reaction was security cheese. How boring I mean to be at the time? Security was akin to accounting. Okay because of the industry wasn't really developed in his well known than I guess. No that was that was in two thousand eight and I had only various brushes with the the security teams in in my various jobs. Mostly for them to tell me that I couldn't do what I wanted to do. So anyway so it looked it up and I really really wanted to attack a full box cards so I went to the interview and the and and they described you know what the job was what they were trying to achieve. There were two people in that team at the time it was very very inefficient operationally for lack of resources and also lack of understanding. I'm busy idea was very new at the time. Still and so at the end of the interview Make no bones about it. I know nothing about security nothing about car payments but I will but one thing I do know about a change and what you describe to me is a change program in data can do so So so they gave me the job. Of course they did not to cut a long story. Short I was there I was there. Five years I left in the middle of twenty thirteen. had a fantastic time a foul absolutely in love. Not only with busy ideas with information than cybersecurity in general general and he'll Yup. It's amazing to me though. I mean the way that you describe that and we combat to kind of your town name and some the things but this is. I suspect one of the reasons that people have to get to do all the talks and everything because she looked at something. And you don't wait for things to come to you. you go out and get them. I think I think one thing my my mom always said to me in in any walk of life is if you don't ask you don't get live by. That told me that near told me off at the event because I was waiting to mission person to ask to come on the and why didn't you ask me before I've been waiting for you to ask me and I love you so busy and you said to me if you don't ask Jenny you don't get now one of my and it was just like that was me told I. Yes Ma this is such an interesting history. But let's just go buy a little bit to those those vistas new reprogram kind of land and all the technology. How's the industry? How did it feel to be into the Soda Technology and confused side at the time to G? Imagine the direction that you're GonNa go direction. Even the industry was GONNA go into with with signs. Oh No not to let me know if you if you if you can imagine urging when when I got my first job and the this is going to show my h this is when the IB IBM PC came out Um and this is also when the first apple Mac came back. No those toll once So so imagine ever how the industry was going to evolve and that Namibia my smartphone that have been my pocket is kind of ten times more Who are at the time? No no absolutely not absolutely not What I saw that the time you know I'd get a job in programming at become analyst may be you know at some point that ah manage a team and maybe at some point that manager nineteen department? But I've never was never was looking that far so to speak nick. I never said to myself. You know this is where I want to be at that going to achieve that but what I wanted wanted to do is I want to learn and I want to know the things like to work with the thing. I N do. Well doing them which is exactly the same that happened when I decided to go independent which is essentially after I left Barclaycard and and it was a case of okay. I'm not going to do anything over Christmas because I'm far too busy and it's too much fun so in January of twenty fourteen. I'm going to start looking as to. What is what we'll do and I've been independent since twenty fourteen and absolutely never have looked back but I never knew back then? That would end up doing what I do now and even doing this on constantly finding new things to do because what I was doing in two thousand fourteen Some of the things that don't do anymore. There are many more things that are that I do now on the back of of what I've have been doing because the industry vols sings move requirements. Change the industry changes that are more and more interesting things and it's always a case of. That's interesting I don't know anything about take I'M GONNA make a point of making it by business and you make it very clear to the people some of these issues. I mean I've watched you you a videos if you present senior present and share panels and things and that you do. You can tell that you've got the analytic mind because you always as you start with statistics you give a lot of information and then so to say going forward. This is what's happening so you seem to watch trends and then try and explain explain to. I mean I've seen speed mixed audiences you need to business professionals. The security industry. We seem to explain the trends and sort of it's never doom and gloom. Do but you say this is what we have to be careful of so for example. I've seen you talking a lot about data and data being the new oil and and like the use and the kind of risks associated saved to that. So we just say that was I mean to me. That's that's one of mansions is that he take the Fox and give people the figures many. It's not even speculation. You just this is how it's likely to continue unique style. I think oh well thank you very much. I'm glad you you you like it. I you know this is perhaps because I absolutely hate being called talent took an unwelcome mean by that is if I'm going to make a statement than I need to back it up Alibaba sir. By fact all the way in which I came to that conclusion and also because there is a lot south of hype goal Indian oil industry. Not just a security industry but every lot of high going on not necessarily coming from from vendors listen but in general in the technology industry as well as the business industry and is trying to demystify the whole thing and so these are the in fact this is what is happening a and this is what you can expect and also one of my hobby hobby horses as you you. You've probably. He also realized by watching some of my videos is for God's sake go back to basics basics netease xfinity. Let's Nope but that's the logical you rise. And that's I guess we all look for shiny solutions and everything but it's the basics in that really remind people. And is that what you start with with bodes in the C. Suite near DC start with the basics with them in check. They understand that can take amid Definitely start with the basis But when I talk to board it's never really a disc discussion that is going to be centered on security parity. Because really I mean. They're not that interested. I mean the more interested now because there is more regulatory pressure so so oh to them. interested in the regulatory risk. And therefore they need to know that the risking money is managed is in any way shape or form but full hello for people who want to to be addressing the accuracy to understand what the boards are worried about in. If they're worried about I don't know a a says. Oh whatever you know this. There's lots of stuff going on now. Bud Black Friday and fraud. And what have you when you come down to it. If if you actually put it very clearly that you know at Amin payments is also so. That's kind of a nice mix of if you look at things like the fool to sales ratio what you can be expecting the trend in fraud which is essentially just the reverse side of cybercrime what you can expect the kind of infrastructure you have not explained to the board that by doing this simple things. I don't know which thing for example I don't know Im- implementing a F- New website to to actually Count to make our tax for example. Because it's all going to the Gomez right now d-mark is something emaar to prevent phishing or any of those things if you can catch it in some way that says okay. Okay if we don't do this. The fruit trend that we've been experiencing a taking into account seasonality. Whatever he is going to be if if we do this is that you suggest because that's what you're trying to sell them? This is so much going to reduce the need to understand exactly how much it's going to hit them in the pocket either Because it is hitting revenue because that would be subject to a regulatory risks which is more prominent. Now which is why privacy we so prominent in everybody's mind because the regulation of forcing it. Yeah I mean I think this is very valuable advice because I think one of the one of the things that the security industry he says a lot is that they have trouble getting the board's attention you know we're all sort of fanatical and Geeky about security. I complete include myself in that we. I can't imagine why someone at the top of a company isn't equally and to UCSD's but what you're saying is that you have to you have to frame this in the tens of Dylan understand because this is one area of many areas that they need to get attention absolutely at Something Else Jenny. So maybe like two three decades ago should look at the large corporation and and they would have they would have the. It Organization is Asian. That would have the risk. Organization generally the fraud management under for prevention guys with sit within the risk organization. You probably would have the compliance and regulatory guys may be sitting illegal sometimes sitting with risk. And then you would of the it guys who have as part of their remit the security remit generally. This is how it would work rice and maybe three decades you guys should go. That was perfectly valid and the reason why that was perfectly valid then is because back then you you what the perimeter was right. Yes back then were there wasn't as much digitisation as there is now. Not Everything is online. If considered I mean e commerce that years ago doing everything on Line two years ago this was not just there so the kind of threat threat we have now. We didn't have then so now. Everything is digital. Were even government's push for things to become more digital. All lives are actually spent online literally so so now you have a case where foot prevention which used to be in one form Tom way back and cybersecurity information security on now merging into the one because there are two use signs of the same coin so that is a bit of a convoluted way of saying thank you will have now for those corporation that haven't realized this you have have the pro prevention guys essentially addressing cybercrime because soldiers done digitally. Now you have the security guys also addressing being cybercrime so essentially you would have the cyber guys spending shed loads on say information access management for the sake of argument and and then you would have the fraud. Prevention guy spending shed load of money to manage Kelsey same thing. This is where your experience comes in at the change change management because this is huge. This is this has been a huge shift in roles and responsibilities within corporations but in a relatively show amount of time so I guess the Change Management Saudi your experiences Israeli invaluable way. It very very helpful. I have to say I mean that's one of the things I was working with the lady recently and cheese she was in transformation completely nothing to do with cyber security really for a long time but the reason I was waiting there is exactly because she was in transformation she was looking at the culture of the business and how you can change him. Put New behaviors in which is which I figured in what we need to do to get awareness saying absolutely not tell you what Jenny and the and you will. Sympathize with is because of the job you do in In all my years in change management and you know we we also had people process and technology will in all my years in change management in financial services. The the most difficult thing for change management is the people bit. You could always fix the tech you can already which range in the process if you don't get the people the program phase and I've seen that time and time again. So what are the secrets to to make it successful that you you think from all those years to to really you know as I say always look at look at it with the land of people process assistant technology and not one leg is actually more important than the other. And that's what that go by. I'm to the point that them really nutty about the anyone asked me to write a document or expressed an opinion. I actually read that people process and technology My first draft draft. I make sure I address those three and so I'm so interested in the fact that it just to get back now to to the way collegiate because she says the U N into payments and he said I fell in love with it. Now now I live in a Dole you near you know but how some unfolding lovers payments how does someone the on my God i January to start the industry is so diverse us and and you said Danica you know I have to poaching trends. You're absolutely right. I watch trends every hour of the day because I have to I have to be up to date with the industry because it moves so fast I mean look at Hamas Fintech have been appearing the the new challenger banks all the things that you can do now open. Banking has become regulations in studies of January loss. Table hasn't taken off as much yet but it twelve all all the registration for new. Think that on the on the financial could conduct with authority side and all of those things to make it to make it better. And I'm like what she needs. Attila because I like working with young companies like startups I like to advise startups because They have the the privilege of starting with the brand new technology stack a brand new technology that they can. It makes things very clean. The can design everything by default so previously by default convenience by default and so on and so forth else. And I'm particularly interested in looking at those stat. Really look to address a particular issue. I don't like startups when they have a really bright idea but they haven't looked at the market and just because it's so bright ideas they're going to develop the idea but when the startup comes to me and says this is a problem with no problem. We know why it's the problem and this is the size of the problem and this is what we're going to do. We're going to go after that problem. I love that it strikes me that you'd be brilliant on some sort of Cyber Security Fintech apprentice show as like as the the new sort of low sugar but obviously knows you so good. Sorry I'm open to office but as a as a as an aside this is why judge of so many awards judge awards on the payment side Fintech side as well as as well as the cybersecurity side. It takes a very long time to judge awards not take that very seriously will all judges at towards actually give their time freely. I gladly give my country to judge judge awards because I get to see you know. New companies coming up as well as existing companies trying to do new things not available or will be available on the market and to me. That is absolutely invaluable information. It's just brilliant. Because you're so enthusiastic about Oh you can feel Cohen from you. How about the technology analogy in about innovation? But it's the business mind behind. It just impresses me sign was always did near. It's just not raise a shop after I've seen you on stage. Jenny and I have to say lots of resume than Judas for me so near. Let's talk that about about. Hello where the risk could be you talk about Iot in that. Does you know the amount of IOT devices in the days that they collect. I mean there are real risks from list though. Oh absolutely I've seen people that are a few things to tell us a little bit about your view on on the sort of proliferation of the Iot will out people being alarmist or a bit. No I don't think they are toll. I mean in front on the yesterday there was yet another. You know smartwatch for kids that was vulnerable and so on and so so forth Zoa it. The the risks are a very very real and I would say by from from reputable manufacturers if that's the kind of senior into and don't just you know put it on than make you to act for you be very short. Aw As to what it is that you are sharing on the device. Follow the instructions of the manufacturer in terms of privacy in terms of what you do with it. You know okay and and anything else that you would do that and they expect you know that what you would do using your your mobile phone and all the kind of thing you ooh Cheryl. Don't share your privacy settings in when you go online and all the best practice so I think a matter of common sense been taking the big more time you know looking at what the device is capable of doing as opposed to just taking. Yes I accept. You know way too big mall and see what it is that you're letting yourself into so at least you know what it is that you'll be sharing or not halt and the kind of service you will be getting for whatever reason you got the device for in the first place I mean I think I think this is all great advice. I think it certainly in in my household we resisted things I- Alexa and everything resisted it for a long time. But it's it's just it's makes life easier and I just think people just see they see the cool. They see the Kool aid. Don't they and maybe think about the consequences. She absolutely and that's a very good point out. I've got I've got an echo device of some sort in every single room in my house except the bathrooms and and And it's not just a matter of you set them up a new you whatever. Make sure you know what you what you share. Who you're going to share who you would like to communicate with you and so on on and so forth because it's very easy to set up an advice the make it easy yet then make it very very easy but then gone the settings and see what it is that you're doing during Bhai default although it's getting much better now because of the data privacy regulation so you know manufacturer is being more and more careful as detainees the the the the larger more prominent manufacturer because they are all under scrutiny? And a half to have avenue this this this inviting but comma is a design that I've never had any problems with it so oh you can't say that that's the case. Now you can blame me but you know you. You actually talked about this a lot as well and I was asked about it because one of the things you were talking about. Oh I've heard you speak about his browns and the fact that if there's a if there is a breach or if there is an attack and I'm sure this is what resonates with you're very kind of large corporate clients. It doesn't matter if it's not them. They people just go to the biggest name that they know in the in the attack. I think you mentioned box expenses as you were moyal. Absolutely I mean brands I mean a brand is an asset has has very well and damage to a brand. Thanks very very long. Time to recover and energy site. It's it's it is sufficient for the brand to be associated with the bridge Even if it's it's not only they were just notifying of the break. Even if it's not vast supplier and and the at put particular case in point was earlier on this year there was a breach of some sort And and it just broke out in a forum I think so. That's like ooh what. What is that so I tweeted about it than the large amount of customers Tan said that the particular company that notified the breach was actually being extremely good at incident response for their customers and they want to notify them that this happened there so nothing to do with them but with notifying you so you can check your accounts? But it's not it's not Thomas but you know. Be Aware that this is happening. Richardson practice which is extremely good practice in that. Tell you what the Fintech Sochaux so much better at doing that than the incumbent a really react move really really quickly. I mean in in my book Tuesday Kudos to the likes of Monzo for notifying customers of in twenty four hours. I mean they're brilliant guys so so in that particular company century notified breach. We didn't know much about it at all and tweeted about it because we weren't getting any response. I get the phone call on my mobile my own mobile but from the head of compliance of that organization. Saying you know it. It wasn't us. This is what's happened. We were not define our customers because we start saying said seeing you know so many thousands of customers affected in everything so we just wanted to let you know. This is the thing by not of this analyst at once flattered that they should go me on the back of a tweet can and secondly a very impressed that they shouldn't that explained the which is then I'd put more information out there. You know in terms of what exactly happened. You gave them recognition for being so prompt. Yes us and it was a smart move to call you near very smart and it is what you said I mean you say this I say this is what you say you know. It's it's not so much the breach because we pretty much everyone. Every company is going to suffer sooner or later it's more in the aftermath. It's the handling of it in how they handle it. You know and and and blaming blaming journalists obey blaming security researchers in my. My book is an absolute no but you know it it. It strikes me just because she business background when I look at these things sometimes. It reminds me I used away I used to. I was in procurement for for a little while and then I did some consultancy him one of the things that go wrong if that's the right way putting it was incidents students of corporate social responsibility so You know maybe somewhere in the supply chain that will be child labor all Particularly some of the retailers and it was the same thing then it was. It wasn't them. They had gray code conduct. I hear of supplies with checked but second tier and third. It was so so difficult Michael to check the mocks so just so many of them and then I was involved in an incident where the was the was. The theta supplier child child labour was found on an inspection came of clear but they were ready for the inspection. Basically said they hit the hit. The problems when it's the the same type of thing isn't it. It's it is absolutely any even more poignant nowadays because if you look at the at the kind of it I to your networking infrastructure that we have We the prominence of a cloud services and everything has service and so on and so forth a set years ago. We understood the supply chain nowadays. Gosh it's difficult. It's so difficult because everything's into connected everything. Everything said note on the network but I think just to that original point. It's what you said. It's the big the reason that we were involved in consultant on. It wasn't because this tiny little company in Asia but we use in children to make clothes and things because nobody would ahead of them after or cared to be honest and that's a terrible thing to say but they wouldn't but it was because all the way the top that was huge retail customer at the end of it. Yeah it was suffering the publicity and they didn't handle it well. They denied denied and they suggest not our fault because this is fair tier and it never went. Well he was feeling and it tells me that what you're saying gene about monster. North is there was a feeling even though it's not your fault even though you couldn't prevent it you have to tell because you're the big name APP absolutely and anew regardless Passing the blindness is never a good idea and I think perhaps also on the back of regulations such as the GDP. I see this is now changing slowly but is changing and because there is a fundamental principle in the which is called accountability and and therefore you have to be accountable because you are at some point part of that value you chain whether it's your fault or not you have a duty of care if you become aware of it or if you feel you tin help with it. You have a duty of care to be accountable to enjoy that. Trust you and especially if you've got that brand hootie absolutely absolutely well to now just and just to finish his you very genesee you time. He just wants to rescue more things than we kind of finish this but I have to ask the ski a little bit about the the event I met you at was a women security and it's a topic that honestly there's a lot of my female guests we it's almost difficult. Want to open really because if feels like it's easy to say they're on thing do the wrong thing angle. I mean what's your view the way see. That's all gone in the industry. Now it seems to be a lot of initiatives Stran- help right. There are definitely a lot of initiatives trying to help and There are a lot of companies you start trying to help but what is your question specifically. I'm wondering what you think is I think on the one hand. I see that the same as she ah awards and this company's China encourage women especially into technology generally but then at the same time. I'm offering a bit skeptical about how effectively as and when I speak to you. I kind of wondered if if it if it ever really came of fear. I can't imagine that you design anything but we're hard towards your goals goals and I wanted to either. You know whether you experience any difficulties often what you feel confused. Never I never experienced any difficulties myself But a ten why. I'm pretty sure I might have but at probably be didn't notice that's there so so that's that's was mine and then again I say that I'm white and everything in English and I I guess I have to say I'm sure I did. I'm sure it was but it was hard for me to see it in the state for half me to give a proper opinion toys and and for me it was always the case. This is where I am this. This is what I want to be in this is you are want to be regardless of what the industry was when I was working for technology companies TWAS also may dominated so yes the cybersecurity industry insecurity industry in general is male-dominated but that is true in general of the technology industry natives true the banking industry and the payments industry and so on and so forth. So it's not a new thing There are very real facts in terms for the disparity Have experienced it myself. I probably did. I didn't notice because of our they. It was relevant not important or or I was trying to achieve something else and that's what I was going to to get out wooden. Let that get in my way And and at the end of the day His another strap line for Eugenie. No the first one being if you don't ask you a you don't get there is never a person that will blow your own trumpet better than yourself and the other one his. If you can't change the people change the people sometimes it's your own. Self that is such brilliance advice. Nick saves me asking in that last question near. It's always a delight. Even to speak with chatty you just such a force of nature. Thank you so much Jenny. I look at you so motion. I'm so glad to finally get you on the show. I just wondered if there was anyone you think I should interview next on the show who could be command. Who could recommend to interview on this show do specifically want to cybersecurity person now? We just like interest in people on the show listeners. Like me to interview. I think people from all backgrounds. So anyone who you think might make a good guess would be great. I think trolls are team. would be a really good guest yes you you met him or you mentioned. You've met him before but you saw him at the last event he really nice guests a I think a Sarai Ready gone who is CEO of payment. which is a newly created payments company? Doing extremely well. We'd be good guests on your show. Oh He's such from what I think he will be. And I absolutely take your station but we might need to tell him that you might need to tell him that you sent me. Oh absolutely it's very happy to introduce you all without view so elicit near. What's what's coming to see what what about next year? You got an interest in projects objects or anything. You'd like to talk about anything I'd like to talk about. No not really at tight at each as as it comes over the got a good pipeline for the next year of the usual stuff but might not for me. I'm getting ready for Christmas. It's a pleasure on a delight to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being a guest on the human factor near Jones. Thank you for having me. If you'd like to sponsor an episode of the human factor security. podcast his is often enquiries Ariz at human factors Security Darko dot UK. And get your message out to all of our lovely listeners. Thank you all and see you again next side.

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Welcome to the Frug Life

The Frug Life

08:57 min | 3 months ago

Welcome to the Frug Life

"From San Diego California. It's the Frugal Life podcast with your host Ricky Hershey. Welcome to The Frugal life a podcast about saving money making money and investing money. I'm the host Ricky Hershey. This episode is Avery Shooting of the very first episode of the podcast, you know, the podcast in some ways is really taken on a life of its own. I never thought I would even have a podcast but here we are really there are a lot of factors that play into it. And so for this reshooting I thought I would tell you a little bit about my story. I am and why we are here listening Going back to as a kid. I used to listen to Rush Limbaugh on the radio his deep voice resonated with me in a way now before you run off. I think Rush is quite a bit extreme and often shares some factually questionable material to show isn't about politics. I have a Blog about politics and since being a kid, I have changed quite a few of my own views, but that's not what we do here the point of the story though. Is that I liked radio at the time and eventually in college after changing Majors a few times. I decided to major in communication. I still remember my professors to this day. I remember some of the vocal coaching one of my professors would give in my very first public speaking course. I'm not finding the right pitch for public speaking by Professor. I think also had a huge pet peeve about people clearing their throats during a speech. She would say that they didn't warm up correctly and that any little vocal hiccups like that should be remedied before hand with adequate preparation. And so to this day before I speak in front of a large audience, I will do some of those vocal warm-ups to make sure I am ready. I went on to take other public speaking courses as well. One of them was argumentation, which is debate and after that semester, I joined the speech and debate team. It was an awful experience eventually though. I switched back to accounting. I thought my dreams of becoming a star radio host were perhaps not the most realistic choice. I decided on majoring in accounting. I needed to find a school to go to at the time UCSD was pretty impacted. There were way too many students at the school. It was off to get into classes and you would have to take all of the courses you possibly could at a junior college first another neighborhood School. UCSD didn't even have counting program. So I decided to do a little research. So I Googled the best schools for accounting. The first result was some School in Illinois that cost 60 month. Thousand Years out of state tuition and I thought yikes. Let's see what number to us. And that was BYU and it was $10,000 a year for graduate tuition. And I thought that sounds like a good deal. I'll go for number 2. And so then I applied and got into the school and then applied to the accounting program and got in and then applied to the master's program and then got it. So I think that kind of explains part of my interest in 5 months while at BYU I interviewed for many jobs. One of my interviewers was actually a radio host in addition to being a higher up in this accounting firm. I thought that was really odd how he juggled these two things now, I didn't get this particular internship probably for the best because it was tax focused but still it was an interesting experience and he made an impression on me. While at BYU I decided basically out of the blue to start a blog my friend Kelso and I made a contest out of it. He also started a Blog and so whoever got the most page views at the end of three months or so would win. What would we win bragging rights, I guess celso ended up winning, but that's okay. I didn't really even know what I was going to write about at the time eventually though. It became a Bitcoin blog and in 2014. I think a Bitcoin blog was novel interesting and new that's what the word novel means a boy. Anyways today writing out Bitcoin not so novel but really that was my first dive into content creation and it just grew from there. Eventually. I made a personal blog as well at some people didn't really want to hear about Bitcoin from me all the time. Wanted to hear about me. I guess I even launched a little YouTube channel, but then disaster struck the blog and the YouTube channel demonetized everything I built was put on hold and I had to figure out how to make this business run again. And because my content wasn't making money anymore being free. I decided to create a book and that is where the idea 402 moon was born a guide to starting with cryptocurrency, but like people commented about my blog a lot of my Social Circle commented that they didn't really want to read a book on bitcoin. So I eventually started thinking about creating another book and then the idea came to me a break on money not just another book on money, but a real money book A book that doesn't give you tips about putting dollar bills around your house. To help you reflect on money, but real actions you could take to make more money. And so the idea was born and months later. I had my first draft and a little after that. I had a final copy, but you know, you can't just put a book on Amazon and expect it to sell so I needed a way to promote this book. And so I went back to my roots. I created a Blog I didn't want the blog to be exactly the same subject as the book but tangentially related at least so I thought about it and decided on I think I was very good at being Frugal. Of course the domain The Frugal life was taken. So I played around with the title a little bit and came up with the Frugal life. You know, it kind of reminds me of the thug life, which is part of the reason. I picked the name well after blogging a little bit I got bored of it again. I had plenty of blogs. I had done it too much maybe. You know, there are millions of active blogs on the internet and I also just wasn't getting the traction I wanted with it. The with my interest in radio and public speaking. I started to think to myself. Why not make a podcast to go with the blog and book and so I did and here we are. I think the podcast has changed quite a bit over time the original episode. Well, let's just say it has improved quite a bit over the last year bumper here. We are more than a year later and the podcast is still growing strong. I'm learning more everyday about being a better presenter and it just makes me so happy when I'm able to help people and give them tips that helped their lives and to see things in a perspective that I wish I could have had when I was younger. So that's how we are here today. home

BYU Professor UCSD Ricky Hershey Rush Limbaugh YouTube San Diego Avery Shooting California celso neighborhood School Illinois Amazon Kelso Thousand Years three months 5 months 60 month $10,000
Episode 123 :: Lorraine M. Hobbs :: Mindfulness for Teens and Young Adults

Present Moment: Mindfulness Practice and Science

40:34 min | 2 years ago

Episode 123 :: Lorraine M. Hobbs :: Mindfulness for Teens and Young Adults

"You're listening to episode one twenty three of present moment. Welcome to present moment mind from this practice and science. I'm Ted Meissner. Present moment is podcast with interviews conversations and round table discussions. We speak with mindfulness. Researchers about their newest findings published in pure reviewed science journals teachers of understanding and methods as they work with students of mindfulness authors about their books and interests, and we also speak with everyday practitioners. The website present moment, mindfulness dot com has shoe notes for each episode long with resource materials. The rain 'em. Hugs joins us to speak about her experiences teaching mindless teens and young adults. You're listening to this podcast. It means you value. The conversations that present moment offers with every episode. This is made available without advertising marketing gimmicks, which is only possible with your financial support. Please take a moment now to positive recording. And visit present moment mindfulness dot com and make your donation to ensure the website and podcast can continue to bring you the guests. You're interested in hearing. Something new teachers of mindfulness encounter is that it's one of the most rewarding activities they can do. And it's also not as easy as it may seem in addition to having personal practice. Spanning decades. Good teachers, also spend years learning the nuances of mindfulness and presenting it to others. This can be even more complicated when the audience has particular needs as when teaching mindfulness to younger people. Lorraine m Hobbs is the director of the youth and family programs at the university of California, San Diego center for mindfulness. During her tenure at the center, she has developed an implementing curricula in mindfulness for multiple age groups, and of course in mindful and compassionate parenting, adolescents certification program, and she also consults with educators on integrating, mindfulness and compassion based programs in schools and offers workshops public talks in the community. Our guest today is Lorraine Hobbs the rain, welcome to the podcast. So glad to have you here. Thank you very much, Ted. I'm very happy to be here with you today. So let's begin by having Utah spot you background. How did you first encounter mindfulness, and how did that grow in your life? It was about sixteen years ago. I actually by background is in family therapy. And I'll tell you about that moment, but about sixteen years ago, I was actually finishing up some training in homeopathic medicine, and a friend of mine invited me to come to a lecture at UCSD on mindfulness. And it took those thirty minutes to convince me that this was a path. I wanted to follow I practice TM for number of years. But this was the missing piece in terms. Of my meditation training. On. I started coming to the center for a period of time. I approached Dr Hickman and asked him to train me which he did. And a few years later I asked for permission to develop the the youth and family Pergamon division. And he gave me permission which I embraced gladly. And the read that part the rest is history. We we now have a very. I think well developed program in in the youth and family division area. We offer kits programs in mindfulness. We offer kids programs and teen programs in mindful, self compassion. And we have a mindful and compassionate parenting program. We also offer intensive we offer retreats we teach in the schools. So yes, very excited to have been part of that whole development, wonderful soul instigate into the development of it. You've built in programming for teens in young adults. Until about the the germination of that what it's based on and how how these programs that you work on have been growing. So we've had programs at UCSD center from mindfulness probably the last ten to twelve years now. And in the beginning there were not a lot of the now existing programs for for youth for for teens. So it was very experimental. And I remember reaching out to Susan Kaiser Greenland who was kind of one of the pioneers on of the one of the people who was. Kind of. Walking the path there and offering through her book offering a lot of opportunities for parents in their children for professionals teaching children. Reaching out to her one day saying, you know, it's so hard to get programs going is a lot of people don't know what mindfulness is and so all get a teen. And I'll get a kit. Into not sure what to do fill that. And she said in the beginning, you take them all and the because mindfulness and self compassion programs are not therapy. They're not any form of treatment. They're not an intervention the really simply are not particularly to to begin cultivating awareness right awareness of self awareness in the self compassion programs. Awareness of any struggle, any any conflict any suffering and learn to meet that with kindness and compassion. So in the beginning, my courses were very mixed. I had very young children, you know, eight nine year old with eighteen year olds and it was a very difficult balance to strike, but but I did it. And then it took time to figure out what what's appropriate length of time for fourteens. I knew that the two and a half hour program of MBA. Are wasn't going to work for teens? It's developmentally inappropriate the length of the meditations inappropriate for a teenage brain. So it really was through a lot of trial and air. But it was because of my background is a family therapist that. I think that really helped me navigate the the learning process, and you know, gate kinda gave me the courage in the fortitude to to say, look, this is how teams work this is families work. Let's just keep you know, moving forward. Keep new taken these steps forward and seen what works overtime, Mike classes, just really started filling up and. About five years ago. I. Came across a messy actually didn't just come across it. Dr Hickman Michelle Becker were two of the. I guess pioneers along with Kristin deafen, Chris Gerber? The founders of the program who were kind of experimenting with a whole teacher training process in the eight week course versus the five Dane tentative. Of course, they brought it to UCSD center for mindfulness. So I had the opportunity to learn from some of the best and. I remember going to. Trying to think Holly hawk Canada, wonderful. Do you know that place? I just know the name Holly. Goodness. It is an incredible place. I would recommend that anybody. Go there on retreat. It's kind of a retreat center. On an island in it's absolutely beautiful. But it's cold in the winter. So anyway. I went there for the five day intensive after taking the week course and said to Chris Christian look I've worked with teens and families for thirty years. And I would love the opportunity to adapt this adult program for teens because I've been a deafening NBS Arthurton's for the last how many ten years at that point. And she said absolutely you've got all the qualifications were looking for for, you know, to have someone adapt the program and. I don't know how I came across Karen blue. But she also had been given permission by Kristen to start adapting. And so we came together and have spent the last five years creating this program called making friends with yourself in its adaptation of the adult embassy program, and Ted I cannot tell you how it's growing it's growing at the interest in this program is growing at a phenomenal rate in part because it's evidence-based. There's a lot of good research to demonstrate that MB that self compassion training is really what teens need as a matter of fact, some research studies actually say that it's the self compassion training. That's driving outcome. Much more than mindfulness for teens. And it makes sense adolescence is a it's a robust period of growth as we all know. But it's also fraught with so many challenges and. Changes in the brain into the whole physiology. And especially in our contemporary society where depression rates for teens are high even then when? Teens, and you also knew people who are. Encountering those kinds of difficulties that today with the little of distraction and things to be depressed about seems to be a democ- levels. It's absolutely the other. D other very big concern. It's it's actually growing concern on on a national. But also on an international level is kids at risk for suicide. Teen suicide rates are climbing at a phenomenal rate and in in their certain countries where the suicide rate is just at an all time high. But here in the US, it's also growing alarming rate, and in Indiana, for example, they've had a rash of suicides in different counties. And you know, Indiana is the has the second highest rate of suicide in the country and the right behind Alaska. And you know, yes, the question will what are the variables that contribute? Well, of course, there's poverty, and there's a lot of peer pressure is a lot of anxiety with you know, what's happening in the world. Environmental concerns. Socio political concerns? Here's a growing concern. That technology is really contributing to teens who are at risk for suicide or suicidality Asian in, you know, along with these some of the other says economic and political and environmental concerns what you have is teens who are now isolating getting onto social media and having that constant constant exposure to social media seems to be exacerbating how they feel about themselves in a really challenging their self esteem. Instead of it being something that can be a nourishing tool. It becomes a. Demoralizing just way of countering the world and being faced with. Comparison and inevitable and understandable comparison between how one's own life trajectory may be going and what in what is shared with glitz glamour in his knee shine. That is not reality. It's not reality. And you know, that's one of the things I love about this program care tonight created making prints with yourself and some of the differences between our program the adult program is that we really address the whole issue of self esteem versus self compassion. We address the issue of social comparison at a time when teens should be collaborating cooperating because they need to they need one. Another support at lessons is the time. When you're preparing to leave home, you need your tribe, but our institutions and are a lot of our cultural values say no, we want you to compete to be the best. So we put them in positions where they are in competition, which creates more of a disconnection so our program, really. And I really appreciate this helps them look at the role of the media. And you know, some of the ways that they respond to all the pressures the academic, the the social appear and the the the whole idea of you've got to be number on you've got a measure up and being average isn't good enough anymore. So the lovely thing is we help them look at who they are. And maybe start look in and start accepting. You know that it's okay to be different. It's okay. To be unique. It's okay. To be who you are Hemmer. Children. I think it's premature says there's a beautiful quote that says, you know, we may die. We may go to art death feeling jealous. Feeling anxious feeling scared. So the whole idea of self compassion is not to throw ourselves away and become something else. It's to turn toward who we are and accept. So the whole idea of our program is how do we teach teens to ten and befriend parts of selves because that's where they struggle. The most. Sounds lovely. And it sounds like there's also been great deal of deep listening to the experience of what younger folks are going through that this is not just purely based on sanctuary search, of course, greatly informs of but also. Areas of mental health and psychology on what the developing mind and heart needs that points. What you also found what maybe some other interesting things have arisen for you is this program has undergone development there any surprising shifts that were implemented with the program to address some things that may have come up. You know, it's interesting. I just came back today from port Townsend. It's a community on the Puget Sound right outside of Seattle. But two hours, actually, but town of about eight thousand people, and this is my third time in a year and a half going to this small community to teach self compassion to adults and teens and. Ted. I cannot tell you how impressed. I am. By the the person who is driving that whole project. Her name is Cynthia Austin, and she has this program called the Benji project and her son been she committed suicide two years ago, maybe maybe almost three years ago, and what she decided to do was to create a project in his honor. That would help foster wellbeing mental health and wellbeing for other teens who may be struggling. So she's brought us. I would I just came back from this fourteen tentative working with twenty seven girls at at scout. Kevin. And it was it was really really really interesting you've got teens as we've been saying adolescence is a time with her so much compute. Vision for for teens, not only are their brains going through undergoing all this construction, but their bodies changing too, and they don't know who they are. But yet the demands placed on them just create a lot of stress and a lot of pressure. So we had these twenty seven girls, many of whom who didn't want to be there because most teams don't wanna come to any kind of self help program or in something that's going to benefit them, unless you know, it's gonna be fun and lots of activities are going to be with their friends in. It's a social fraternity, but we just got the surveys back. And I think it's eighty five percent of the girl said they would absolutely recommend this program to other teams. For folks at that age. Recommendation read, and these were, you know, eleven to fifteen year olds we had one ten and a half year old very bright, very, creative very talented young girls, but just so inspiring to hear their wisdom and their interest in looking at the challenges they face, and and maybe some of the, you know, the methods they've been using that haven't been that haven't been that helpful and the willingness to try on something new. So it's it's just every time this happens. I'm. Just incredibly honored to be delivering these programs to them. I can tell you nother story that is just just blew my mind coming back to your question about mental health and all the ways that this program can benefit teams teams. Last year. I offered a program in a very small community. Again, a town of eleven thousand in Ohio, and I had about I wanna say eighteen kids in the class in the very end of the program. This comes up to be any says, you know, this is hops he said a month before this program started and it's an eight week program. So we'd been together for for two months. He said about a month before he said, I came out, and I now nst to my family to my community that I am gay. And he said, you know, my family didn't understand too small midwestern community didn't understand may said they blamed me in they shamed. Me, and I felt very ostracized from my family. And he said I was. Not only depressed, but I was actively suicidal, but his twin brother had brought him to the course. So they went through the course and at the innovate weeks. He came up to me and said, I am no longer suicidal. I have moments of depression. I have a lot of work to do that. I have found the tools I need to begin really accepting who I am versus warning to throw myself away because I didn't feel like I fit in or I didn't feel like I was enough. Or whatever those beliefs were at the time. So, you know, making friends with yourself for e self compassion training has the capability the capacity to help teens really develop resources that can become part of their lives for the rest of their lives. So you've you've shared some of the wonderful success stories of with this program is meant in touch Malaya's of younger practitioners or new to contemporary practice. I'm wondering what are some of the difficulties that you've run into just in developing the program or in in how you might share it with others. If there's resistance if some people may not quite understand what it is. That's happening. What are some Firdaus that you've run across the biggest hurdle was and still and continues to be getting the word out. You know, we offer our programs through the center from mindful, self compassion. And so many of the adults who take the courses through there or two teachers who have trained through CMS e. Some who teacher trainers? Certified teachers they hear about our program, and they they're interested because they work with teenage population. Or they tell their friends or colleagues that there is a program offered for teens. So we're growing at a phenomenal rate now. But I think one of the biggest hurdles was helping people reach those professionals that work with teams because as I as I suggested just moment ago. Teens don't come seeking the course themselves into the adult mental self compassion courses, the adults refer themselves they show up. They're ready to work. That's not the way it works with the letter fact. Another hurdle that I that we I think have been able to work with quite effectively. Is creating a family orientation session at the beginning of each course where I personally individually work individually with each family. So I know who's coming in. So I can inform the parents inform the team so I can work at and this is gonna sound strange, but work a little magic in that room. And that magic really helps to break down some of the resistance. I think one way of saying is that it it some of the interventions I do in that session. Help to realign the balance of power. And it helps to create a healthy connection with that team. So that by the time, the first class starts, they know me, they're already trusting me because they saw me working with the family, and it it helps them work with the resistance in such a way that they get more out of the class. They're written more. They're more available to work with material. Thank you for that. Overview wanted to ask you're working on something else. You mentioned before we started today's interview in wondering if you'd be willing to share that with the listeners as well. Sure. So I have a few colleagues that I'm working with on other programs. One one program is called a friend in me, and it's for a smaller a younger age group. It's four eight to eleven year olds because the teen curriculum just as we had to adapt from the adults to the teens, and we did that by integrating art activities and more movement activities in really addressing the developmental. Appropriateness for this age this age group, we've had to do the same for a younger population. So the details are even shorter and there's much more activity in exercises. But always no matter the age group always with the intention of bringing the experience in to. A felt sense of what mindfulness and self compassion. Really are not keeping it at a at a cognitive level over we have some things that address that really bringing it into a felt sense. So that they really begin to understand and recognize the importance of. If these are my thoughts and my perception of my reality is this how is that beginning to show up in in my full experience. And then when I begin to recognize and understand that then I have choices. It's in those moments that that that the self that mindfulness and self passion become more alive for kids teens and per don'ts. So that's one project were creating new curriculum. Hopefully, will this curriculum will be publishing open to the general public or available to general public. Within several months in the other project is a book, I'm writing with another colleague and really is. Based on the importance of teaching professionals, how did teach self compassion. So you know, you can pick up a workbook. You can go to a workshop, you can even do teacher training in a curriculum. That does not make you an effective or successful teacher of self compassion. So the book is really rooted in the fundamentals of. Embodiment, you know, the fundamentals of having your own personal practice because that's really where we teach from. When we teach any of the mindfulness based interventions we teach for my own personal fractious. And I think when we can help. Self compassion, teachers, mindfulness teachers as well really understand that. And this is always a challenge for therapists because they they wanna get into the why in this. The why questions and they want to begin to excavate, and they don't always know when they're striving you're moving into fixing mode. So this spoke is really good help professionals teachers clinicians. Really interesting, just the the basic fundamental, teaching self compassion, which has to do with, you know, I recognize it 'cause I'm in bodied when I'm striving when I moving into fixing mode, or when I'm uncomfortable with silence, and I want to change the experience in some way. So the so the third area that will really focus on is is the fact that we really try to this book will hopefully help professionals really understand that all were doing the only real intention. We have is to teach teens children and teens. How to recognize when there's a struggle. And then learning teaching the tools for how to address how to meet that suffering. In other words, most of us are so oriented toward moving away from our suffering, and we're simply going to you know, we're simply going to help the navigate through curiosity awareness. Oh, this is what's here. Now. Name it to tame it. Feeler to heal it. You know that whole idea that we can turn toward it. We can befriend it. And we do that by bringing self compassion asking, very basic question. What do you need? What do I need in this? What do I need to hear? What do I need in the way of of? You know, a soothing gesture something that activates the release of oxytocin teach kids. These tools is it's it's like giving them a gold mine. They learn to care for themselves. They learned to befriend and selves, which is at the heart of teaching is not facts figures. It's. How do you how to learn? Learn that's exactly it. The way you were characterizing early honor discussion with Susan Kaiser Greenland's thoughts were. It was maybe. Doing therapy. There's a difference. And I really love this this last that you were talking about with making sure teachers are properly equipped in. Some discussion about a recent paper that was indicating the teacher competency wasn't quite as heavy a factor as we may have thought, of course, my. Make critical eye on that. Is leaving one thing. There was something missing from that. And that's. These were beginning courses, and that's not the sum total of someone's engagement with mindless, self compassion, or whatever it may be introduced to them. So you may not see some of the subtle, but quite profound misdirections. The may have inadvertently been buzzed by the fine nuance. That is teaching of mine insult compassion. And other thing is they're so critical to how when meets the world. Yeah. And that's true. I think that one of the things that's really missing from even though we talk about our teacher training one of the things. That's most difficult to grasp is an understanding of what affect tolerance really is. So when someone is in distress are you ready to group with teams? Dealt and someone's in distress what do you do with? And if you're not embodied, if you're not aware of your own experience, what's arising for you. You're either gonna react to it and move on or react to what end start excavating and trying to get to the wisest happening versus. Loving connected presence, which is simply staying embodied connecting. Sometimes I'll be have to do is put our hand on our heart and people felt people feel like they're they're being acknowledged. They're being seen. They're being heard to there's there's so much value to the idea that people need teacher competency. You said it beautifully to the idea that people need to be trained. Well, so at the very least we do no harm. In the last thing. I wanted to mention is that I'm working with a psychiatrist in Germany, who's in his York men gold, and we have been printed permission from the center for mindful, self compassion, to take the mindful self compassion curriculum, which is what we adapted to for the teams and now adapted for parents because as a family trained, therapists, I've worked with I've worked with families for well over thirty thirty five years, and I don't see anyone as a single entity. They don't exist. Vacuum assistant evacuate. No man is entire of himself. Right. And so it when you have that kind of training, you want to see the whole system, and what's impacting this system. So it's great that we've. This program for teams that hopefully they will take some of these tools on board and develop them as skills and they'll take him into their lives. They still are connected to a family two. Parents in new research is showing that parents who have a practice in mindfulness and self compassion. Have a reduction into pression innings -iety in their teens. It just makes sense. You know, if you think about the mirror neurons and empathic resonance and all those things that connect those taking responsibility for how we walk into our homes every day or how we connect with our children. Are you know, parent to parent every day can really have an outcome in terms of wellbeing or additional stress, right? Having an awareness, although there are individual variability since other no guarantees on this awareness of the entire ecosystem of. Not just this is critical to the best chances of what might be successful in helping them with their sense of wellbeing. That's right. That's absolutely, right. And I think helping every member of the family become more responsible for their personal well-being, which will contribute to the well-being of as you said the ecosystem I love that. Because that also reflects the largest community needs the larger community, the rain is there anything else you wanted to share with listeners. If you have children, I would highly recommend that you pick up a couple of books on mindfulness. And there are some new books out there on on self compassion for kids for teams. I would highly encourage parents to take take their interest in the topic to their schools. I was meeting with some leaders of private private school here in San Diego, not too long ago, and the headmaster of the school actually asked me why there is such a rise innings -iety and depression in children, and he said, they're actually partnering with children's hospital here in town because they're seeing an increase as we said earlier, Ted. They're seeing an increase in some of these internalizing disorders and kids are more risk for suicide light Asian. I don't know if we're just paying more attention, or if there really is a significant increase in some of these areas, but they're taking it very seriously, the as they want what I thought was going on and in that whole conversation that we had one of the things that stood out for me was the this growing awareness that since nine eleven, and I don't know if this is the sole reason, but I think innocence nine eleven there's been a growing anxiety in the idea that we're not as safe as we used to be and our our whole geopolitical. Just just the landscape of the world that we're in is no longer quite as Mesa bid. In the impression of safety is not what may have once been through things like the Cuban missile crisis or this or that. But they they had they had an end in. This doesn't even to have had quite is clean break. It seems had planted some seeds. I think it did. And I think that in they you hear in conversations around the city the face of the enemy has changed. But I don't think it's just one specific kind of face. I think it's it's on multiple levels were being challenged in ways that we never have before. And I don't know that adults are coping with their stress in ways that are most beneficial to the family members. And so I think children are not only getting getting added stress coming back around to the whole issue while the pressure that they're under precious that they feel but. If parents aren't coping with her own stress, then that's going to impact how children I mean. A lot of kids show up to school every day already under a barrage of stress stressors, and they're not coping well by the time they get to school in the morning. So I think we have a job to do. And I would highly encourage parents to take an active role in insane that their schools and their children in the children of the schools that their children are part of their communities. Start talking about some of these issues to see that happen. Thank you Lorraine for those who are interested all the funding of links episode page for this episode. Our guest today Lorraine Hobbs lowering thank you so much for joining Bill comeback. When your book is published in we can just more. Thank you so much Ted. I've really enjoyed this time with us. Thank you. Thanks for listening. If you'd like to hear more about something you've heard today's podcast, please come visit the website at present moment mind from the start com. You'll find an entire web page devoted to this. And every episode you can come in on the episode page and find show notes and other helpful resources for your mind from this practice. The shock hunchine music heard on present moment is used by permission and through the generosity of musician Rodrigo bad Rigas. His website is linked on the present moment website on the about hug cast page. Sound editing mixing and mastering provided by the generosity of Anthony domino of structure from sound dot com. Until next time. Remember every moment choice. Make it the best. You can see you next time on present moment.

Ted Lorraine m Hobbs Susan Kaiser Greenland UCSD center UCSD Indiana Holly hawk Canada Ted Meissner university of California Utah Puget Sound Chris Christian US director Mesa Dr Hickman Ted I Ohio younger age
How to Access Your Entire Health Data in 30 Seconds with Ardy Arianpour, CEO & Co-Founder at Seqster

Outcomes Rocket

16:35 min | 1 year ago

How to Access Your Entire Health Data in 30 Seconds with Ardy Arianpour, CEO & Co-Founder at Seqster

"Hey comes Reckitt listeners. Thanks for tuning into the podcast. Again, tired of your businesses healthcare costs unpredictably increasing every year healthcare costs are typically businesses second or third line item expense. And if you're like most employers it's an expense that's growing faster than your revenue. Luckily, for employers novella health has the solution Nevada health is a full service healthcare consulting firm with proven strategies to lower your healthcare costs by up to thirty percent or more. They operate on a fee for service, model and never Mark up any of their medical or pharmaceutical claims, none of your employees have to leave their doctor or pharmacist, either their health captive and pharmacy benefit manager, are the most cost effective and transparent solutions in the whole country. What they do is not magic is just honest. So if you're tired of overspending on health insurance, and wanna learn more, visit outcomes rocket that health slash save. For a free spend analysis to see how you too could save by switching to Nevada. Health. That's outcomes, rocket dot health slash save. For your free spend the now, six outcomes, rocket dot health slash save. Welcome back to the cast today, I have the privilege of hosting Artie RAM poor. He's the CEO and co founder at seeks ter- visionary health, tech executive and serial entrepreneur with fifteen plus years of experience in the big data genomics biotech industry as Forte's galvanizing startup companies into successful, enterprises launching disruptive products and platforms that change health care for the benefit of fit of patients and consumers today. He's doing work at seeks ter-, and I had head opportunity to tactfully take a peek behind the curtain on the software. Think of meant, you know, for your finances while seeks, there is the meant of your healthcare data and what they're doing. There is they're aggregating information across providers. No matter within the same system or different providers. To actually get you all of your health data to your hands. Pretty cool stuff being done here seeks ter-. We're all seeking and arty. Leading that vision. So it's a pleasure to have him on the podcast today. Arty. Welcome. Thank you so much, all it's a pleasure to be on your podcast today. Look forward to the discussion, absolutely already. So did I leave anything out in your intro, that you want to villain? No other than you know, I love a barbecue. I love it. And he favorite style. I guess, burnt ends or my favorite and coming back from just south by southwest, not too long ago, extra special treat in Austin. Yeah. Ends are the best love it. Man. I love me some barbecue too. So what got you into healthcare. My man. Yeah. You know, I was very fortunate to grow up in San Diego, California where we have such a huge life science community influence on started at the Salkin STA toots in research on gene expression at the age of sixteen actually, and then realized quickly that you didn't need to be a scientist or a doctor, even though I was premed during my undergrad to figure out if you can move the needle on a healthcare. Love it. And yeah, the San Diego area is definitely bustling in med tech. So you gravitated toward it. And you've done a lot of different things man, you've your serial entrepreneur. You've started several different. Companies all in the health space wanna hear from you. What you believe is the hot topic that needs to be unhealthy tres agendas. And how are you and seeks ter- approaching it? Yeah. You know, I think it really is now all about s- interoperability. And what we built it seeks ter- a person Centric interoperability platform that puts the person at the center of healthcare disrupting all their episodic, HR, baseline genetic and continuous monitoring data and let you collect Onen share your data on your terms love it. Man. I mean, you know, just the, the opportunity to do that. It's so clunky everything is, and I, it's, it's not easy to be able to aggregate in such an efficient way will love to hear from you. Have you guys have you guys gone live with this? Yeah. So we are instill for quite some time, but we went live last year with several partners. And currently working on some big. Commercialization opportunities on the providers payer side, that have been coming to us since we built something scale now we can really deal with some large enterprises and we're really excited about that now. That's great. So as you, as you move ahead in, in, in the work at seeks ter- was something that in your early partnerships, you've been able to say, wow, you know, we've improved outcomes, we've created results through this give us an example. Yeah. You know, it's, it's really three things. It's the fact that we get the speed the time, the first visits and make that visit meaningful with the right info and data with our, that's a provider payer. We get improve that patient in physician experience that we've all been really wanting for longtime and the result of that is outcomes data. No pun intended with your podcast is really hard to get and we enable outcomes data because once you have all this. Longitudinal multidimensional. Oil in multi generational data in one place. It's amazing what you can do with outcomes data on that now that's really good, man. And so the one thing that comes to mind is the aggregation of data in a lot of times, this comes up, when discussing, you know, how an individual could go from scripts to, you know, different health system down the street. How does that work? And and you know, when you have two competing systems. How are they gonna reconcile that? So the problem right now is, you know, even if you have let's say scripts data, and it's on an epic type of platform on the HR end than you have let's say, UCSD data, and it's also on epic form their own two different versions of epic scripts in UCSE data in the same city. One mile away from each other. Yeah. They don't talk to one another. And so that is the biggest challenge in that challenge is known as the thirty billion dollar plus problem called interrupt. Ability, then everyone is now talking about and it's front and center. And, you know, we were the first company that was able to achieve nationwide scale in not just bringing scripts in UCSD data together. But, you know, we can bring scripts UCSD Cleveland Clinic, NYU Mount Sinai, and, you know, rush hospital in Chicago data together in one place. So you're able to scrub it and, and make it make it look uniform for the sake of, of your platform. Yeah, because what we've done is we spent, you know, the past couple of years. We the team gets all the credit for this a highly sophisticated engineering team that standardized and harmonized all the epics earner also scripts McKesson practice. Fusion, Athena, health data all on the back end, as well, as you know, the DNA data and various different continuous monitoring aware of. Data mother, man. And so the deadline the government deadline to make this data available through fire. It was moved 'em. Sure. That may be slowed. You guys down a little bit. But when that does happen, the envision that's gonna be when the wheels will start to turn fast. So what's great about seeks turn? How're doing differently is don't depend on fire or not. We're not saying that we're the experts that there should be some kind of standard if Myers going to become the standard, that's not a problem because at the end of the day again. Yeah, we put the person the patients at the center of their health care, and empower them to collect their data through our technology. So it doesn't matter if it's fire h seven, or any other semantic got at Kuhlman makes a lot of sense. And so gives an example arty you know, it's been three years, you guys have been working on this for a while. I mean I it's cool in. I mean I. Had had an opportunity folks to see it. It's, it's really neat. If this was available to me, I would use it give us an example of something mad didn't work out a setback that you guys had and what you learn from it to make the platform, even better. Yeah. You know, I think the biggest setback was the fact that we stayed in still too long and you don't need to perfect the product to come out of stealth, and we had a significant technical breakthrough two years ago, but wanted to really perfect, the U I in the US and the user experience in we're working day in day out with thousands of patients to tell us how they want it. And that's why you know, when I showed you the platform you enjoyed it so quickly because people just like yourselves told us, you know what, not did you? And if I had to go back, I would have came out of stealth allot earlier, we stealth way too long, and I think we that was a setback. But now, I guess is a product that is further along than. Out there. So in hindsight's it could be arguable if you know, we did the right thing being in stealth or not. Yeah. Now for sure for sure. It's, it's definitely something that you gotta balance out. But yeah, if flows works. Well, I mean, even anything that you use will have glitches. I mean mint has glitches, you know. And, and you gotta expect that kind of thing. So I think shipping was the right move, so kudos to you and your team for forgetting it out. Thanks so much. Yeah. The team definitely gets all the credit in, you know, we got a relentless team that has the DNA in the mission behind this. And that's what it takes. What's your proudest, the experience with the company? That's, that's a really good question. You know, we had a watershed moments and couldn't be in the team can be more proud. When doctor, Eric Topol, actually wanted to try the platform, and when he tried, it's he actually tweeted about it the next day, and that's public. You can go on our Twitter feed, and it's pins and. He basically tweeted first time I've been able to get my medical data from nineteen eighty five to present four different health systems at scripts health at UCSD health at Cleveland Clinic at university of Michigan, plus my twenty three knee, plus my Fitbit. Plus, my fitness pal with labs from different systems all connected through seek Stor. Trying it less than twenty four hours in the right direction. That was, you know, one of our most humble than proud moments. But I could tell you that every day now there's a moment that makes us so proud of what we've done and just recently, we've had an influx of people just like doctor. Eric Topol, try the platform and have the same experience. And that's what makes us so proud is, we really have cracked, the code on person Centric interoperability that, what a great thing to be proud of for sure. And healthcare doesn't have to be complicated folks, and seeks tres. Doing just that making it simple. Tell us a little bit more about an exciting project within the, the seek Stor platform today. Yeah. I can share to very exciting things. One is with a well-known provider and stay tuned because we'll have a very nice announcement with a provider, and how we're really gonna change healthcare with our platform that, you know, I just demonstrated to you and how they'll be able to take our technology, and really speed up the time for first, visit and make that visit meaningful for the patients with the right information and data because it's so hard to collect medical records as you know, and then another example is with a very large payer that is interested in the pulling our platform to some, I would say, ridiculous numbers in the millions, and we are working through those two examples, currently fascinating at a it's the power of finally getting everything. In one place is gonna add huge value. I think take a lot of costs out of healthcare. So kudos to you guys in, in these exciting projects this part of the podcast Ardy is a lightning rounds. I got a couple of questions for you. Followed by your favorite book, ready cool was still it. All right. What's the best way to improve healthcare outcomes, put health date in the hands of people period? And love it. What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid don't just involve the medical community? I think you have to involve the patients and that is key. How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change? I think you guys know this better than us healthcare super complex. We stay relevant by generating novel insights with all the dark data and we shed light on that dark data that dark data is the data that already exists out there on all of us. What's one area, focus, drives, everything at sixer, it's the person. It's the patient. And you've heard me say this throughout the podcast, we put the person at the center of healthcare to disrupt all the data silos, ask yourself if epic or apple put you at the center of your health care of that. And the two questions coming are more on a personal note. What's your number one health habit? I would say it's definitely running. It's not eating, but I run so that I can eat. All I can. Gotta get that barbecue in right? Try put in forty miles a week and serious serious. But you know, as you get older, it gets a lot harder to used to go to San Diego allot in love running around there. You know, the, the bay just gorgeous gorgeous the harbor down. San Diego's does run. It's just a great environment front runners and the weather. There is perfect. I'm jealous. Was hard whenever I go on business trips and the weather's five degrees, or even ten degrees, colder. It's, it's a lot harder to go run outside, but I try to do it. I got some skin. And that's awesome man. Good for you. And what your number one success habit? You know, I think it's just persistence and consistence it's not just being persistent, but you have to be consistent. And, you know, I never give up. It doesn't matter what the naysayer say, a lot of people told us that this was impossible, and we just never gave up and you have to have an amazing family and support group around you in advisors and just never give up an it's a constant mission every minute, that's awesome already. So what would you recommend to the listeners? Oh, by favorite book blink by Malcolm. Glad. Well, great on love that folks, you could get all of the details a full transcript. The short notes links to seek Stor and everything that we've discussed today. Go to outcomes rocket. Health in the search bar type in seeks ter-. It's S. E. Q S, T R, because we're all seeking as issue ST, our outcomes rocket that health, look up there. This has been fun already. I really enjoyed it. Leave us with the closing thought and then the best place with a listeners good. Learn more about your work. Yeah. You know, I think you said, even better than e Sol, everyone is seeking health. Data doesn't matter. If you are a payer provider or clinical research, enterprise or if you're just in individual, so you can get in touch by contacting us to see a demo at info at seeks dot com or just follow us on Twitter, or on Lincoln outstanding already this has been a blast and definitely looking forward to seeing you guys grow the platform and to get it into my own hands and another listeners are too. Thanks. Again. Thanks so much. Thanks for listening to the outcomes rocket podcast shoot of is it us on the web at WWW dot outcomes. Rocket dot com for the show notes resources inspiration, and so much more.

UCSD San Diego Twitter Nevada Eric Topol Reckitt Artie RAM Mark Austin US Cleveland Clinic Forte CEO executive e Sol Onen California
#187: How to Make the World More Accessible for ALL Bodies with Alissa Sobo

Food Psych

1:22:11 hr | 1 year ago

#187: How to Make the World More Accessible for ALL Bodies with Alissa Sobo

"In order to support this show. We need the help of some great advertisers, and those potential advertisers need to learn a little bit more about you. So please support the pod by going to pod survey dot com slash food psych and take a quick anonymous survey that will help us get to know, you a little better that way, we can show advertisers. Just how great our listeners are. Plus once you've completed the survey you can choose to enter for a chance to win one hundred dollars Amazon gift card, terms and conditions apply. Again, that's pod. Survey dot com slash food. Psych P O D S U R E, Y dot com slash F. O O D P S Y C H. Thanks so much for your help. Welcome to food psych podcast about intuitive eating health at every size body, liberation and taking down diet culture. I'm your host Christie Harrison, an anti diet registered dietitian and certified intuitive eating counselor offering online courses and programs to help people all over the world make peace with food. Join me here every week is I talked with interesting people from all walks of life about relationships with food and their bodies. Hey there. Welcome to episode wine, eighty seven of food sake. I'm your host Christie Harrison. And today, I'm talking with Eliza Sogo a software engineer and the co founder of ample which is a review website for rating doctors services and businesses on their accessibility for people in all kinds of marginalized bodies, including larger bodies trans bodies and many others. So listen, I talked about how being fat shamed. At the doctor's office inspired her to create the ample app. Why excess ability matters her journey through disordered eating and recovery. How business reviews can actually function as a form of education, and advocacy and so much more. I can't we share a conversation with you in just a moment. It was really good one. But I will answer this week's listener question, which is from a listener who gives their name as older who writes, hi Christie. I'm in my early fifties. And had been on the intuitive eating learning journey for around three years. I've loved your podcast and have followed the work of your guests. Over time have read books that I've learned about from food psych and. Conducting myself with newfound confidence and awareness of my right to respect myself and others, regardless of body size. I've read health at every size and intuitive eating and I'm a true believer. But as an older person, I am getting pressure from my doctor to consider my quote, unquote, health and eat low fat and lose some weight for my joints and health markers, like my cholesterol and thyroid I'm not asking for individual medical advice, as I know you don't give it. But is there any point in the health at every size methodology where the older person with a body that physically is carrying excess mass has to think about losing weight. My doctor says yes, am I being pollyanna or ostrich with his head in the sand to think that this intuitive eating and Hayes stuff applies forever? Even when we get older and get indications we may disable ourselves if we continue to ignore wait. My body may be wearing out because of my disregard for quote, unquote, the numbers, I'm constantly aware that being an intuitive eater in my fifties is different than it would have been in my twenties. Does my approach need to adapt at my age. I wish you'd had food psych when I was twenty. But I think you are a toddler. Thank you so much. For being there. Now can't wait for your book. So thanks so much to older for that. Great question. And before I answer, just my standard. Disclaimer as they rightly pointed out that these answers and this podcast in general our information on educational purposes, only an art substitute for individual, medical or mental health advice. So first of all I am. So glad you found your way to the anti diet movement now, and I only wish that I could have been podcasting when I was a toddler or that podcast even existed when I was a toddler because then you could have found me, then and I could have helped people sooner. But I can absolutely understand. You know, the fear and frustration that these talks from your doctor might have caused you. And I can tell that it's making you worry that the haze philosophy and intuitive eating aren't the responsible thing to do at your age, but rest assured there is no age limit on Hayes and intuitive eating, and you absolutely do not need to lose weight for any medical reason. So for one thing that's because we don't have any safe or effective way of getting human bodies to lose weight permanently. It's just not what. They were designed to do. It's not what our bodies want. And they fight it at every turn. So that's why diets don't work in the long term. And by diets, I really mean any form of intentional weight loss. They're calling themselves. A lot of things these days right like lifestyle changes protocols programs templates plans, blah, blah, blah. But like whatever else diets are calling themselves these days, whatever guys diet culture is going under a not includes quote, unquote, wellness, right? The wellness diet that I'm always talking about whatever form it comes under all forms of intentional weight loss almost inevitably lead to weight cycling where some people can lose a significant amount of weight in the short term like six months to a year. Let's say, but then the vast majority of those people regain it all back within five years. So that miniscule fraction of people who don't regain it within that time, and we're talking like a single digit percentage of folks here. Probably from what the research shows. Those outliers often are just people who are using disordered behaviors that would be diagnosed as some. Form of anorexia and people who had started out in smaller bodies. And so they might just be people with what's called, quote, unquote, atypical anorexia nervosa, which we talked about an episode one seventy eight where they started out at the higher end of the body mass index spectrum and they've restricted themselves down into the quote unquote, normal BMI category. But of course, they've done it through disordered means that take over their lives. And the only reason that they get praised for those behaviors instead of getting diagnosed with anorexia and getting help immediately, right? Getting taken to the nearest treatment center is because of diet culture, and because of the stigma that it places on larger bodies in the way that it elevates smaller bodies. And so those quote unquote, successful dieters are often just people who have seriously disordered eating and are suffering because of it and there again, a very small percentage of all the dieters out there. So the more typical path of dieters is either never to lose any significant amount of weight as hard as they try which is definitely true for a lot of people or to lose a significant. Mount wait over a period of months or a year or so, but then to gain it all back within five years, and I want to emphasize I that weight is not a health problem or even an indicator of health, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with being at a higher weight, but also intentional weight loss. Not only causes people to regain all the way, they lost. But it also causes them to regain more, in many cases, in fact, likely most cases, so it drives wait up over time up to two thirds of people who intentionally lose weight regain even more than they lost. They gain it all back plus a dividend. So either way whatever happens to people's weights when they wait cycle, the almost inevitable cycles of weight loss and regain that people go through on diets or quote, unquote, lifestyle changes, or whatever you wanna call them actually increase their risk of health problems that typically get blamed on Wade itself, like heart disease, diabetes, and their associated risk factors like cholesterol, and this is all independent of people's actual weight and his just from. Oh, the wait cyclic. And you know, what else raises your risk of those health conditions independent of weight at self that would be weight stigma, aka being shamed. And blamed for your body size. Which is what the person who asked. The question is actually experiencing at the doctor so research shows that doctors are the number one source of weight stigma for women and the number two source for men of all the sources of weight stigma out their doctors are number one number two, and we don't have research on non binary folks at this point. But I would imagine that it's very much the same for them. So basically, you know, everyone is having a huge amount of weight stigma. The people who feel weight stigma from somewhere in their lives are most likely to feel it from their doctors, and that stigma from doctors can take the form of very seemingly innocent comments like saying that you need to lose weight, quote unquote for your health and implying that your body is wrong. The way it is which is what a recommendation for weight loss does. And also prescribing to go on diets to shrink your body so incidents of weight stigma. I have actually been shown to cause stress in the body. Like, there's measurable increases in people's cortisol levels with weight stigma, and weight stigma has also been found to be a greater risk to your health than what you eat, which is mind blowing. Right. That's huge. And that really should give a lot of dieticians and public health officials pause because when they offer nutrition advice with a side of weight stigma, which is what most nutrition advice in diet culture. Is it totally cancels out any benefit that the nutrition info itself might have had an it causes net harm to people's health. And by the way, if you wanna see the signs behind all this stuff, I'm sharing right now, you can download my slides from the twenty eighteen fencing conference for dietitians, which has a very robust list of citations that back up everything I'm saying here. So you can go to Kristie Harrison dot com slash fence twenty eighteen to get it. Let's Christie arson dot com slash FM C E two zero one eight and just a mild trigger warning for those slides because there's one weight number that I use which is. Meant to show what a ridiculously small amount of weight. People have been shown to lose even in the most optimistic diet studies. So in short the research really shows that recommending weight loss just is not evidence based healthcare. So you're definitely not being an ostrich or pollyanna the person who asked the question, it's actually diet culture. And the medical professionals who are stuck in diet culture that are the real ostriches in pollyannas because they ignore the decades of good scientific evidence telling us that we just don't have a safe effective or permanent way to shrink people's bodies. And that attempts to do that or actually far riskier to people's health. Then just staying at the same higher weight without experiencing weight cycling or weight stigma. And of course, that has a lot to do with the strength of diet, culture and the diet industry. Right. That people are just bearing their heads in the sand and refusing to acknowledge this evidence that says like, hey, we need to do things another way. So you can get some help for your health. You can have good healthcare and and get help for condition. Like cholesterol and thyroid and everything else that might be coming up as you age that doesn't involve weight stigma or unsound diet advice, and that entails finding a haze aligned medical team, or at least a medical team that's willing to learn about health at every size and take weight loss and diet advice off the table for you if not for every patient, they treat so I would definitely recommend finding a different doctor who's not going to wait. Shame you and you can start by looking in the provider directory at Hayes community dot com. That's HA ES community dot com. We'll put a link to that in the show notes for this episode as well. And then if you can't find anyone in your area in that directory, you can try looking in your insurance directory, for example, or just looking in the I was about to say the phone book. That's dating me looking online on the internet's and then cross referencing the providers who find their with Dr reviews on ankle, which is the app that I'm going to talk about with our guest. Eliza Sogo and just a minute. Which is is it ample dot com. IS IT A M P L. Dot com and will link to that in the show notes to of course, for this episode, and you can also just call up different doctors offices and talk to their staff until you find a practice that says they'd be willing to work with you on your health without recommending, weight loss or dieting. And then when you do go be armed with some guidelines. You know, some ideas of things to say to them to help set the boundaries and shut down any potential, wait talk that might come up. Reagan Chastain has a really good guide for what to say at the doctor's office, which will link to in the show notes for this episode one of the things she always says is like what would you tell us thin person with the same condition? What would you prescribe to a thin person in this situation? What evidence based medicine would you give to them that you're not giving to a larger bodied person? And so that's one easy way to sort of deflect and get the doctor back on track and deflects the weight loss advice, but hopefully if you've gone through the process of like interviewing the doctor's offices before you even get there and kind of set the tone. You could even like write them in Email ahead of time. And be like, this is what I. I want to work on with the doctor this these are my sort of ground rules and then print out and bring it with you. And like remind them. Hey, your staff agreed to this. When I booked this appointment that can be really helpful to and hopefully won't even necessarily have to go through the process of setting the boundaries and make sure that you know, the rest of the staff is on the same page when you do go to the doctor like the doctor themselves might be totally cool with you know, trying to health at every size approach for you. But maybe one of the nurses is really wedded to wait and weight loss and his like, wait. What do you mean? You don't wanna step on the scale you have to and like gives you got about it, you know, but you can say actually, no, thank you. I don't do scales. And if you need to write something in my chart for insurance purposes, you can just write down refused, and that's actually their lingo. That's like insider lingo that nurses and doctors use in the charts where you know, if you don't wanna give your weight, they can actually say refused, and then they don't have to get that number for their insurance purposes. So I hope that helps and again. You know, just to summarize health at every size and intuitive eating are absolutely for everyone at every age. And it sounds like you just need to find a treatment team that's on board with health at every size and intuitive eating rather than this doctor who seems really opposed to it, and is very rooted in diet culture, and is just giving you the diet culture line about what you need to do quote unquote for your health, which is complete bullshit, right dieting, doesn't work any form of intentional weight loss has a terrible track record long-term and makes your health worse in the long run. So we need a better way. And there is a better way, and it's health at every size and intuitive eating so to submit your own question for a chance to have it answered on an upcoming episode. You can go to Kristie Harrison dot com slash questions. That's Christie Harrison dot com slash questions. And then if you wanna ask me any question you want and have me and my team answer it much more quickly. You can come join my online course intuitive eating fundamentals. We have a wealth of audio and written content. Teaching you all the principles of intuitive eating, plus an exclusive monthly QNA podcast where you get. Ask your own questions and listen to hundreds of answers, I've given already to other participants. So that you can work through all the different sticking points and intuitive eating and really put it into practice in your own life. When you join the course, you also get access to our private Facebook group where you can connect with other course, participants from around the world, and you get real time guidance from me and my team as well. So you get a lot of great support both individually and from the community in. This course, a participant named Elizabeth wrote to me and said, I have recently been socializing in ways that I didn't when I was in the midst of my chronic dieting and eating disorder. Thanks for your help. And getting me to this point through the course, and another participant named Pearl said, thank you so much for. This course, it has saved my life and thank you for your continued guidance. If you're ready to break free from diet culture and reclaim the life at stole from you. You can learn more and sign up for the course, Christie, Harrison dot com, slash course. That's Christie Harrison dot com slash chorus. And now as a really good time to sign up, by the way, because I'm getting ready to do a big update of the course in the spring. And so you're. Going to be getting the course right now at the lowest price, it will be available for and you're also going to be getting free access and instant access to the update is soon as it's ready. So kind of like getting two courses for the price of one. Plus, it's also lifetime access. So again, Kristie Harrison dot com, slash course, is the place to go to sign up. This episode of food psych is brought to you by nooks imagine if he could chat with doctors anytime from your phone get prescribed online and get birth control delivered straight to your door every month with auto Matic refills, and do it all without ever having to leave the house and turn directs the game changing company that's here to make getting birth control easier. Knacks means paying for fewer doctor visits skipping pharmacy lines. And no more forgetting to pick up your refill every month. Plus if you don't have insurance, it's the most affordable option out there. And if you do have insurance, it could be completely free just go to their website or their app and answer a few questions for their certified doctors they carry over fifty brands of birth control. So you can choose your go-to or their medical team will help you find the best. Option for you. And it's all safe secure and hippo compliant. Go to neurotics dot com slash food psych for twenty dollars credit and get birth control at your doorstep in less than a week. That's any are x dot com slash F. O D P S Y C H A now without any further ado, let's go talk to Elizabeth. Oh, so tell me about your relationship with food growing up. So the first time that I became aware of my body was in kindergarten. I remember the teacher kind of marched us all over to the nurse's office. And we all were weighed for some reason. And when we came back to the kindergarten classroom. She wanted to use this as like an exercise in numbers, I suppose, so she put up a bunch of weights of the kids on the board of the classroom, and she didn't put anybody's name, but she ranked them in order of biggest to smallest and I. Knew that my weight was the biggest of the classroom. And so I think that was the first time I became aware that was larger than other kids and looking back on that. Now, it's it was you know, within well within the range of normal kid, wait variation. But I think I always think of that as the first seed that got implanted in my mind that something wasn't right. That was bigger than other kids. I knew I shouldn't be bigger than other kids. But I was so that was kind of like the my first exposure to thinking about my body and it just spiraled down from there from kindergarten. Wow. And so did you had you internalized sort of the idea that bigger bodies are less valuable from dia culture like already by that point? Do you think or how did that message sort of get communicated? I can't remember the moment. I had that message internalize. But I knew that when I saw that number. That wasn't right. And I also had a lot of thoughts about gender too. Like, I remember thinking, I'm a girl. So I should definitely not be as heavy heavier than the boys. And so it's interesting that even even at, you know, five or six I I knew both that I shouldn't be bigger than other people. And I also knew that I'm a girl, and I shouldn't be bigger than boys. And it was already in there at age five. And I don't know don't know how it got in there that is just wild. And it's it's so disturbing to think about that. You know, that kids that young are internalizing these messages, and then, of course, it goes on to shape your relationship with your body and food for years to come right? Yes. So after that time, I think I remember it around first or second grade or maybe even then somehow my primary care like family physician got involved. And I don't know if it was brought up I to him by my mom, or if he brought it up to my mom or what exactly happens, but. I remember the kind of the medicalisation beginning then like, oh, she is a little bit bigger than other kids. And you know, we've got to do something about this even from that young age, and it was the fat free decade of the nineties. So I never recall having food that wasn't diet food in the house. So I I have no memory of having regular food in the house. Everything was was diet food from from the gecko, and my mom was a thin. Bodied woman in my dad was a larger man who constantly struggled with that. And so it was a weird culture in the household. It definitely felt like I was kind of. I was a problem and a lot of this was being done for me. And so by the time, I got to eight years old. I was sent to that kids. Can't for the first time. You know, the story is is not going. Well when the eight year old gets too fat kid now. So it was the youngest kid at that camp. And it was taught it was given at UCSD like a college campus in San Diego. I grew up in San Diego. It was given in the fanciest part of San Diego. And I think a lot of the problems got worse at the fat kids camp with my body image and my relationship to food. There was remember a lot of nutrition classes, a lot of like remember the number of calories in each of these food items. So I was doing that already at the age of a and there was a few traumatic events that took place at the fat kids camp, the the worst of which is a story that I tell so on the campus of the university. There was also another camp the two camps were kind of coexisting on this campus and the other camp was a tennis camp a kids tennis gab, so. So it was like the ritziest part of San Diego members this kid's tennis camp. And I remember kind of walking through the campus with a small group of other people at the fat camp. And we kind of across the road because the roads cut through the campus a group of the tennis camps kids for walking by in the they were carrying a pizza, and they started taunting us like oh, the kids at the fat kids camp have can't have this pizza. You guys are too fat to eat pizza. And so it was just kind of it was kind of a hotbed of shame think it ended up being I still went to fat kids camp one more year when I was nine, and, you know, not good. I bet it sounds like you got a lot of. I mean that bullying from the other kids sounds horrible. Yeah. And I'm sure you are probably being told a lot of disordered things at the camp to about like what to do with food and stuff. Yeah. Very much. So and I remember just there was like punishing workouts at the camp. And I remember kind of being on my back doing these crunches thinking, the sucks like, Ed. So, you know, I feel like that was also the first kernels of what ended up becoming an exercise addiction for me too. Because I was taught that in that exercise was kind of a punishment for my body. And that it was going to be painful in her. And it was interesting that there was this tennis camp also on the campus. Now that I'm thinking about it. Because those kids were there to have fun until play. I remember looking into the tennis courts and seeing a very playful and fun Kip going on. Whereas ours was not. That's so sad. Yeah. Took with joy out of movement from such a young age. Definitely. So I guess the moral is don't send your kid to fat kids camp. No matter what no matter what you do. Seriously. I think those things should not exist anymore. I think it's really so unethical to do that to kids. I know I fantasized about writing the director a letter because of course, I know the director's name, and I've I've. Looked her up and fantasize about sending her letter to explain it. But I just I don't know. I never go through with it. Because I feel like this woman clearly doesn't get it. And to think of how many I I also fantasize about reuniting with the people who are at that camp somehow and like getting together and see where everyone's at and like maybe having like a joyous love camp in place of like, the fact it's camp that we all have that was so nice. What's actually feel like that would be a really good like documentary or something, you know? Oh that would be. That's a good idea. Yeah. Someone out there who has the time and the the skills to do that. Yeah. Absolutely. And maybe he's who for the new camp. You could go to you could go to virgin Tovar is. Oh, yeah. Thunder thighs totally perfect or placement. And I love his friend of the friend of the app. So that would be a great idea. Totally. She's a friend of the show to she's actually as we're recording. This. I think she her is going to be out like a week later her her appearance on the puck. Oh, man. Yeah. So exciting. But yes. So getting back to like your story and your journey at all unfolded. What did that do to your relationship with food and your body then to be at that camp? I think I mean, I can only think of it as a total total destroy you have my relationship with food and my body. I never recall liking, my body your or even being embodied, I always kind of envisioned myself as kind of separate from my body because from such a young age, I was kind of separated from my body in that sense. And so with food. I began pretty disordered eating from the gecko. I think by the time I was in middle school. I probably what would be considered a full blown exercise addiction in. Then by the time. I started high school I had a pretty pretty severe problems with starving or indirectly on and stuff like that. And so. A weird thing that kind of also came out of it in relationship too much to eating is that I also kind of started cooking for myself at a really young age of of really oddly young age, and I can remember like biking to the store and getting ingredients for food and bringing them back and the focus was always like these are the healthy recipes that the camp sent home that you should be cooking. And so I very much started cooking at a young age. I think too. So there was this to track thing going on where my love of cooking was developing really strongly. But also, my feeling that I couldn't be eating the food or I shouldn't be eating the food was also developing. So it was it was a real torture into place to be in a think of being really tortured between those two feelings. Yeah. That sounds really painful. Yeah. It was and so, you know, in high school, I continued to struggle with restrictions. Severe restriction. An exercise problems and even into college. Sadly, I feel like I was one of the few college freshmen who brought with them this like strict eating regime and exercise regime, and I remember my freshman year in between my calculus class in my fly fishing class because I went to a school that was like in the wild. I remember running laps in between that and and just thinking no one else is out here doing this. But here I am running laps still because I need any to be thin and need to be thinner. And I brought a lot of weird eating patterns with me. Like, I brought my food to hydrate or to college. And I would go to the campus cafeteria thing, and I would use my little points and buy things from the produce bar and take him back to my room. Dehydrate the eat because I was a raw food est. So this was back a long time ago. So this is when now was trendy right. Like this. Remember like this was before that was trendy at interesting. Yeah. It was right on the cusp or maybe it was the beginning of its trendy nece. And and for some reason, I really latched onto it and really went with it even into college and still to this day. I have a friend I met college who says his strongest memory of me in freshman years, the smell of strawberries, like wafting out my dorm room down the hall. So I had a lot of a lot of problems with food and eating growing up that we're really entrenched like deeply entrenched into my identity, and that's interesting that you got into the raw food thing. Because as I'm always highlighting on this podcast. The wellness diet is the sort of new modern guise of diet culture that pretends to be all about wellness, and I think raw food is like fits right into that. It's like, oh, it's health and wellness and has no science behind it. And there's no those no good support for like, not cooking your food, actually cooked food as much more delicious and more nourishing and a lot of ways depending on the vitamin you're talking about right? It's more bioavailable. If you cook it. Yeah. So straight I. I don't know why I got into those things I think I kind of just got into all of them. I was trying desperately to find something that would work. And obviously the fact that I was still on diet and college meant that all of my previous attempts had not been successful. And of course, I blame that on myself. And now, I know that I was never going to be successful at that. Yeah. Totally it always was destined to fail diets diets fail us all the time. And yet, we're so conditioned to beat ourselves up about it and blame ourselves when it doesn't work yet. It's amazing that I didn't realize it before that I kept blaming myself despite knowing that I was the best Dieter that I knew you know, I still continued to blame any failures at it on myself. And I think for me, I think of the pinnacle of everything as my wedding because you know, maybe as as you know, like the wedding industrial. Complex and the pressure on women to be these beautiful thin prizes for their men that are marrying is so strong. I remember not I didn't wanna wedding. But my husband really did. He wanted our friends to come. And I wanted to elope because I think I do what would happen is. I knew that I would become obsessed with the wedding day and obsessed with becoming a smallest possible. But I think you know, I venture really gave him because I wanted him to have the wedding that he wanted. And and I began what was probably my most extreme and rigid dieting to date at that point in got really into the high intensity exercise, which is an exercise addicts dream come true type of exercise, I feel like at not eat very much and I remember eventually after the wedding. I recall having this. I thought like, geez, I've spent my whole life. Life trying to be thin, and it's all I ever do at times. Like, it's a fulltime job all of this dieting obsession, and it dominates every moment. Almost of my life is thoughts about my body and obsessive thoughts about restriction. And this seems weird. Like other people don't do this other thing. People don't do this. My husband doesn't do this. He's thin thin bodied. Why why am I doing this kind of? And I was looking online, and I think I was actually looking on Amazon for yet another diet related book. And somehow I I stumbled upon health at every size by Linda bacon. Yeah. That's some good. Algorithms prophets? Yeah. I know the God smiled upon me in that moment or the goddesses because because. Yeah. Her book showed up or their book showed up I should say. I remember reading the cover like on the Amazon. Preview and it, and I think on the cover it very much says, you know, diets fail us, and you can be healthy at whatever size. You don't have to have a diet and on the front of that book. There's like a scale in the trash can. And I was just like, whoa. I don't know. Like, I was like treat, but I was also very terrified at the thought because I very much when you have kind of an addiction to something like an addiction to exercise or or you have an eating disorder. It's like, I don't know for sure how other people might feel. But I certainly felt like it's, you know, it's your form of control. It's what you hold onto. And this book was just sitting there looking at me on the screen saying that everything I knew might have been wrong. And so I I ordered the book. Like, hey, ordered or something like what is this book? I got to see for myself. Yeah. Yeah. It was like it was like I knew something just rang true to be even from the cover of the book like it rained through to my experience. And so I hate ordered the book, and I took it with me on my honeymoon. Oh, wow. Did you discover the book before or after your wedding, I discovered I think right after because right after the wedding. I was like well ahead. Now, I'm done with the wedding. I do I have to keep doing this. Like, do you have to keep punishing myself every day with these grueling exercises in not eating not going out and having a drink with my friends, and all of these the most extreme kind of punishing behaviors that I was doing and once the wedding was over. I was like, wait. Okay. Now what like I had a goal. And now do I just have to keep doing this? And so I yeah. The book I stumbled across the book right read. After the wedding. And so we took it with me. And we part of our Honeyman was to this slight hot springs, and you know, you cook at at the hot spring. You cooks cook food for yourself in this commercial kitchen, and it's it's very like lo fi situation. And I remember thinking like I read the book, and it was like, oh my God. I'm going to go into the kitchen, and I'm going to for the first time in my entire life cook a meal and eat it, and I'm gonna try this like intuitive eating thing. Like, I'm going to just try to see what that feels like to eat food like that. And I still remember what it was that. I a and just having that revolutionary experience of not hate like not hating myself while I was eating the food. Wow. That's huge. Let's so powerful because it sounds like you didn't really have much of a memory of that if at all from childhood like coming your intuitive relationship with food that you were born with so. Yeah. Absolutely. It was mine to to relationship was completely destroyed. From birth or from shortly after birth. I don't know. And so I remember reading passages of this book. I just I couldn't believe this book. And I was just reading passages out to my husband on the honeymoon. He was like, yeah. That really does sound like your experience or or something we were both just having like this revelatory experience of that book. And after that, I definitely still has some back slides into eating disorder behavior. But I think that that was getting me on the right path. Ultimately, that's awesome. It sounds like you were really ready to be done with it to like you started to question for yourself like where does this fit into my life? And why am I still having to do this because? Yeah, diets promise, you just do this diet for like, however, many days or months, or whatever, and then like, you're cured and there's like a, quote unquote maintenance phase or whatever, but it's supposed to be I feel like most of them make it out to be like long term. You won't have to be this restrictive. You only have to be. Like super restrictive in the beginning. But then actually you're still you're still restricting. You're still sort of thinking in the mindset of the diet long-term. And if you don't, you know, the the sort of promise that they hold out to you evaporates because again, I mean in most people's bodies fight it, anyway, even if they are still doing the the dining behaviors, you know, like your body just has other plans. And so, you know, that promise of of like, you know, just lose the weight, and then you'll maintain it forever is just bullshit. It is. I mean, the the moment I stopped doing the most extreme version of the dieting was the moment that the way, you know, immediately came back, and it's amazing to think how short of a period, the weight would always come back. And it's boggling to think that anyone could suggest you could just stop dieting because that certainly was never true for myself. Anytime I wasn't doing the most extreme behavior of the dieting the weight would come back and fairly quickly, right? And how are you relating to your body at that point? Then because I know for most people I think accepting weight gain accepting that your weight might be larger than the cultural ideal or, you know, significantly larger than the cultural ideal is really hard part of this process. It was very difficult for me. I think I had internalized a huge amount of fat phobia in my own bef out person or being larger body person trying to diet, I think possibly sometimes those are the people who experience an internalize. The most fat phobia is I didn't have a fat friend. I didn't I didn't have a fat. Fred like, I didn't even know a person in a larger body, and I think that I just I really struggled with it going forward and a lot of the community. I was in was very a health focused ten of granola community. And so I really struggle. For a long time. And I credit having having a partner who like a a big part of. It was also that I got pregnant I knew that I didn't wanna diet while I was pregnant because I thought that that could be harmful to the child or I felt that that would be harmful to the child. And so that was kind of when I first started to really not diet. And I luckily I had a partner who was really supportive of that we'd been together since college. So this was the first time he was seeing me like eat normally in and not worry. And so he was really supportive of that. And eventually owns fat friends that took some time it took moving to Portland Oregon to do that. And yeah, it was a really long journey for me. Backslid a lot of times of fortunately. Yeah. Because I think when you're in that sort of meal you and that like community that is so healthiest, and I definitely know like California in general and pockets. Of it like San Diego or definitely, you know, it's like the beach and like surfer idea or whatever it was sending. It was a huge part of the problem for me. I hate to admit it, no offense to any listeners from San Diego. But it was I felt very I felt very not mainstream and not with that culture. And like, I was never going to be that beach, babe. And so eventually I did move away from San Diego, and that didn't help me a lot. But yeah, I feel like a yeah environment. Does actually have a huge affect like, obviously to a certain extent. Wherever you go. There. You are and like your internalize beliefs are still something to work on. But yeah, when you're in an environment like that that just pushes on it and was the environment. Also that you sort of emerged like that those internalize beliefs emerged in the first place. I can imagine how hard it would be to break away. And like when you don't have anyone else in your community who's like fat positive. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so big part of the one of the one of the reasons I wanted to Portland was that I heard tell that Portland had a had a great fat immunity at head read that and I was like, well, we'd already wanted to move support land. But I was like, let's definitely go there. I feel like I can make some fat friends there. And I it was it did. I did. Yeah. I feel like having friends who get it is so huge. And specifically have I've heard from a number of other fat folks who identify as fat, you know, say like having fat friends was a life changing thing for them to have other people model acceptance of their bodies in larger bodies, you know, and sort of mirror to them like no, you can actually be fat and embrace your body. And it's okay. Yes. Absolutely. Just seeing that I almost you know, I think what that phobia. Does it tries to strip away the humanity of fat people? And so just. Being around fat people who had who were so full of life in wonderful. It really shifted the perspective for me a lot. That's awesome. Yeah. I think one of the things that I really like about this podcast to is like, you know, talking to people. I mean, I didn't know this at the outset that it was going to go in this direction. But I feel like the format of dislike talking to people about their relationship with food and their experience gives a glimpse into someone's humanity. And you're hearing the humanity of all these diverse people that's not something that we really get for a lot of people in like diverse identities. But especially for fat people in diet culture. Like that doesn't really happen. You know, you get the sort of one narrative or a few little different twists on the narrative of how a fat person supposed to be from TV and movies and pop culture that just you know, races completely all the depth and nuance of people's humanity. It's true. I do recall TV in just the care. Nation of fat people as above all jokes was absolutely instrumental me thinking, I I can't be that person. I'm not going to be that person. I'm gonna change it. This is I'm just a thin person who happens to be momentarily trapped in this thicker body, like confused Dina. So we'll right. That's the narrative that get sold us to right. That's like Oprah's thing like, yeah. And she's got it from somewhere to it's this. Yeah. Like, there's a thin person. Inside you waiting to get out. Like know is not true though, though, it it was clear to me. I was a bigger person. And I was always now it's clear to me. I was a bigger person. I was always going to be a bigger person. And that's just that, you know. Yeah. When did you start to really feel that way when did that that idea start to sink in for, you know, until the whole acceptance part came in it really took me a long time to. Also, part of I think is a very type a personality. I really feel that I need to really mastered and be the best at the things I do. And that's another thing. Another obnoxious piece of American culture that has sunk into me. But I really thought that this was like the last thing that I couldn't do I could be the best that chemistry. I could become a software engineer. I could do all these things and like I just had to crush this last piece. And I think it was finally just for me all of the acceptance came in bits and pieces like it was starting to follow more more Instagram people who were fat in proud. And then it was reading books like I remember reading Reggie Tovar book and a hot heavy, and I remember reading someone who was they were describing how much they love they were like on the beach, and it was it was very sensuous scene in. Touching their bodies. They were feeling a loving these roles that they had and I was just thinking like. I I was I was really incredulous for a long time. Like, I knew it was true. But I remained incredulous that it was possible to be happy in your skin. And I you know, I have to admit that for me. It's just a law. It's just a long tortured journey. I don't think I don't think that anybody who spent their entire life being totally surrounded by diet culture. Braced culture filth at diet culture was part of their very identity. It's something that's going to go completely to zero in just two or three years. You know, it's going to be a long journey. Yeah. That's so important to share too. I appreciate you sharing that because I think a lot of people when they come to this this movement. However, they discover it, you know, people who who discover the podcast or find me on social media, or whatever and are like I'm into it. I love this embracing it, but like how long is it gonna take, you know? I mean, it's so different for everyone. It's really impossible to say. And also even trying to say like, well, this is how long it will take in general probably excludes the people for whom that's a different experience. But I think it's just really valuable for you to say like because you are in it for so long for your pretty much entire like life that you are conscious of that's going to take a long time to fully untangle. And of course, we're still in it. You're still having to live and diet culture. Even though you have now this community that does buffer you. But still there's instances where you're going to have to face it. And so what do you do with that like learning to navigate that as such a process to right? And I think it's at first I thought that acceptance of my body was gonna look like, you know, say it looks like someone well known on Instagram it's going to be naked photos and all of these things. But in the end, it doesn't it looks like my own thing. It looks like my own form of acceptance and the different ways that I think about it, which you know, might be influenced by. Kind of Buddhist teachings or it just becomes influenced by my own perception. And so I think it's important not to think like, oh, oh body acceptance looks like this. And then forevermore, you're gonna be saying and doing these types of things it's it's an individualized journey in. It's just gonna look the way that it's gonna look, you know. Yeah, that's so important too. Because it it's about like who you are as a person. And so whoever you are like, you know, for anyone listening. It's like it's gonna be about the emergence of who you really are as a person defining what your body acceptance looks like, and I've definitely had people. I've heard people say like am I not doing body acceptance right because I don't wanna post naked photos. Like do. I still have some like internalized, fat phobia. Shame that I'm working through it. And I feel like I mean, maybe we all have some like internalized stuff about sexuality and nude bodies and stuff from living in this culture that we live in from western culture. But also like you might not be a purse. Who's comfortable that you might be more private person, you know? And that's okay too. Absolutely. It's it's funny because so I met you at the Asha conference, and I also met shook McDaniel Shukla, it Suga is awesome in their totally. You know, a beloved part of I think fat fat acceptance of book, we ended up becoming super good friends after that conference. They stayed with me Portland for a couple of weeks, and we became really good friends, then and then we wanted to take they were always like, what are you gonna get in front of the camera Elissa when are you going to and I kept like, no, that's, you know, that's that's really not my thing. 'cause you know, I don't I am the person you described. I don't have a really strong propensity to to do that. I love that other people do it, and I'm so thankful that other people do that. And I think is a great form of activism, but it just wasn't really me. And then finally we we wanted to take a vacation. Together. So we plan this trip to Joshua tree to meet up over thanksgiving weekend. And finally, they were like, okay. Like, you're the only fat person around. I'm in nature a half, take photos, a fat people. Like, that's my art. You gotta I mean, they weren't going to really like forced me, obviously to do it. But they're just like this is this is it like, we we gotta do this. And so Finally, I was like, okay. And I once I did do it. It was a pretty amazing experience for me. And it it really showed me things about my body that it reframed the way that I looked at my body. So it is a powerful experience to do that. But yeah, it's not necessary. If if someone feels that it's not for them, right? And yeah, I could take time to to get there or maybe not at all for some people. That's yeah. However, works is cool. You know? Yeah. Absolutely. So I'm so curious to like when you talked about. Your pregnancy. And how that was kind of like a gateway into starting to eat more intuitively on a consistent basis and the experience of that starting to heal your relationship with food in that way. But then I know you said to you been fat shamed. At the doctor while you're pregnant, and that was part of what inspired you to go in this activist direction with ample. So I'm curious how those two things coexisted and how that informed your journey. Yeah. So I started I just was dipping my toe into non dieting with my first child, and I was into it. And I was like okay this. This is good. Like, this is the right thing to be doing. And and then I had another kid shortly thereafter the first kit. I had the really close together. And I went by second trip to the doctor that was the first time I had really had a terrible experience at the doctor. The reality is if you're a good fatty go into the doctor that you'll probably have a lot less trouble. Because you know, if you can say oh well. I've already dieting and exercising. Most doctors are like great keep it up. You know? So I went into the doctor, and it was a situation where there was multiple doctors who were going to be who could possibly deliver your child. So you had to see all of the doctors for your prenatal care. And it was the first time saved this one particular woman she walked in and said Hello. And she kind of looked down at the charges looked back up at me and said, you know, you've gained X amount of weight since since you got pregnant, and it just immediately like caught me off guard seriously. And I was just I think just kind of started stammering and said, oh, well, yeah. Okay. You know, and she was like, well, I would stop that. If I were you right away. And it was like, okay. Like I like as though you. I mean, you're pregnant like your body knew that. My body, you know after having been starving. I so many years. I think my body with pregnancy was like, yeah. This is great. I am going to make you bigger because you've been starving in the past. So she kind of started walking me through all these questions like well, you probably eat the scraps off your one year olds plate like that accusatory tone. And I like it was it was bad. As like, we'll be know the truth of the better is I hate food waste, so. Yeah. I sometimes do that. As all parents. I think to yet that like that's a parent thing every parent does that. But you know, it was like no to that. And she was like, oh, you probably never exercise because you have a one year old who you're watching too. You know, and I shouldn't have to be answering these questions, I should have you know, I wished I would have just gotten up and walked out said, screw you. But you know, I found my. Self saying, oh, I go to prenatal workout class. And you know, like try desperately trying to prove my humanity to this person who is not treating me like human. And after that experience. I went home in. It was really it was really jarring. It really rattled me. But I think at that point. It was just something that I knew that. I wasn't going to die it. Because for me, the the moment that I had kids I realized okay, you gotta get serious about this because children see everything, and you can't just say to your kid. Oh, love your body. You kinda got a model that for them. And I knew I was again mad like I knew I knew that was true. I knew I was really going to have to love my body. And I was like, Wow, I've got about three years till they probably start realizing. Okay. I got to really get serious about this. But it was not experience. And then of course, I was at the time. I was living in a really small town. My reaction was I gotta find another doctor. And so I went online, and I asked one person who I thought might know. And of course, nothing because rural healthcare is bad as bad as it is in was, of course, wasn't going to be able to find another doctor, and it got me thinking in looking at online resources in what existed for finding doctors. And there were a few kind of budding resources or or they were really geographic Lee centered. Like there was a list for you know, one area, but not another and some of them were out of date. And I thought. I think I can fix this. Like, I think I can use software and kind of up to date technologies to solve this problem and make it easier for us to all share this information. That's awesome. What did you been doing in terms of software development up to that point where you're working for like, a large company or we already working for yourself or interesting? So I miss self taught. Programmer, I started teaching myself how to code like five or six years ago, and I live my husband's suffer engineer. So I had kind of built in mentor. But at that point, I had done a kind of a lot of wacky things. I got agree chemistry. But didn't realize didn't want to be stuck in a lab all day. I started a restaurant and ran a restaurant for a number of years sold it, and then I was like teaching cooking and science gardening in classrooms, and what I had my first kid. I was like for me. I said I need to go back to work click. I definitely don't want to be home with. These kids 'cause that's the hardest job in the world. And I have so much respect for people who make that decision. It really is the hardest job in very underappreciated. But for me, I knew as a personal decision that I didn't want to stay home. So I started to learn to code, and I had just kind of finished program. And I thought I want my project to be this. I think I can build this thing, and I knew version Tovar. And so I emailed version. I was like, hey, I've got this idea. Like, what do you think? And she was like, I love it. I think but I think it should just be healthcare. I think we need to build this tool to review all types of things because I don't want to go to a hairdresser as sit down. And have the hairdresser start talking to me about how to cut my hair to frame my face by fat face in a more tractive way, you know, one to give me a good haircut. So we think about how we could expand the idea to. Include pretty much everything. And to this day on ample you can pretty much review everything. Yeah. It's really cool. I love that that exists because it is like when you think about moving through space in any sort of marginalized body, there's different nuances to that. But most people who designed spaces don't really think about and so to be able to find healthcare providers, but also a theater that has seats that are wide enough and has gender neutral bathrooms or whatever like that stuff is meaningful to people. Yeah. It really is. There's a number of things that you don't realize matter like arms on shares at restaurants or I'll wits or another thing. That's common is toilets that are mounted to the wall instead of the ground people who are really large don't like sitting on wall mounted toilets because it's scary that the it they could fall off. And they're not often raided for higher weight. And so that's a common thing. But that's something that even you know, I I am a smaller fat person in I have that privilege of being a smaller fat person. And that's something that I didn't even know about an had to to learn about. Wow. Yeah. That is fascinating. I had never heard of that either. So thank you for educating meet about that there. She sees things that you wouldn't realize unless you're moving around the world in a body that the spaces are not designed for typically because we live in such a exclusionary culture that just doesn't hasn't gotten with the times, or at least not most places have. But I think it's really cool to see like I was looking at the map on ample and seeing all the little dots of, oh, here's places that have been reviewed on a lot of those places are actually good, you know, that have five star ratings or whatever. So it's been incredibly heart digging for me to see the reviews role in and to see these because there's there's reviews all around the world and to see reviews role. All in in places, where I might not expect them to, you know, have the most inclusive attitudes has been really heartening for me one of the funniest reviews. I've seen is a review of DMV in New Hampshire. And you know, it totally makes sense. They were talking about the seats because the DMV is, of course, you have to sit for a very long time. Right. You have to wait for hours, usually. Yeah. Totally. So it makes total sense. Civil wanna be saying like, hey, I'm in New Hampshire. The steam v is one that has chairs without you know, without arms on it. And so yeah, that is really cool like how how have you grown it? And how has you know, it sounds like it's starting to now get beyond just like the community of people. You know, it's a lot of people just random people around the world are finding it getting on it. Which is so exciting yet. It's really exciting. You know, the first so I kind of started it, and then I picked up this volunteer team around me. So one of my best friends who identifies as trans came on. And they said to me like I have some of the same executives about going to doctors and Simpson I've actually gone to the doctor with him. And I mean, it's it's been. Wild. They would call him by his birth. His dead. Name basically end, you know, because he hadn't legally changed it. And he just all it's too much effort to try to like educate this person in the doctor's office that I don't actually use this name. And so I just answer to it. And so, you know, we were realizing that trans people actually faced some of the same problems that fat people did. And we know that from you know, intersectional politics that when people have identities that overlap, they experienced different things. So we know that, you know, a black fat women is not gonna have the same experience as a white fat woman. And so at that time, we kind of realized, hey, we want to expand this to a couple of different identities. We wanna make sure that you can review from these different identities and gather information from a more intersectional perspective, and so we kind of came onto do that together. And then we got a couple of other volunteers and the weekend that we launched some of the all of the first reviews were from people. I didn't know. So yeah, it was just a wild wild experience. And then one of the very first weekend we launched we saw review come in from Korea. And a king affect Jack. From an she's an she's in Kansas. I so we're like well the first reviews like they weren't even in Portland. They were in Kansas, and Missouri and stuff like that. That's amazing. Yeah. It was really cool experience. So yeah, the word got out. It sounds like. And it was like, you know, it's something that people really need. There's a huge need for it. Which probably speaks to why it's grown so fast. Yeah. And you know, there there were other resources that existed that are similar to this before it like fat friendly docks was a project that that's been around for a while. And I have a lot of respect for the people who started that project in maintain that project. But I personally felt like we could use some more modern technologies to make it a more streamlined experience for people. So, you know, we make it look a lot like yelp. It's you know, it's the same process where you go on and you search for businesses, and then it brings up a business profile. You could see the reviews you can see the ratings, and then you can make a review yourself. And so I thought that we could really benefit from kind of making it in this format. That's very easy to keep the information up to date and fresh like if say doctors been reviewed in twenty seventeen in it was kind of a so so review, and then you go to them because you feel like maybe the best lead that you can find and they've improved their attitude, and so you can go, and you can make a review now say, well, I went to the doctor they were actually really great. I they treated me with a lot of respect. And so the review process really lends itself well to keeping up to date information totally and I love the like technology of it where you can just let it search by location too. So you can see all the stuff around you, which I feel like was missing from a lot of the the previous resources or as much more static. Like, okay. You know, like put in what city I'm in. And then search for a limited array and with this. It's sort of the opportunity for it to just keep growing and expanding. And geo locate you wherever you are is really exciting. Yeah. I like that also because I I like to think about how you know people travel. So if you were visiting another city in you know, you want to get your haircut because you're there for two weeks. You can kind of use this map these this tool for anywhere that you're at right? That's awesome. Yeah. Because if the reality is people move around like, we're not just going to stay in one place. Absolutely. And also, I love how you talk about that ample is activism this process of reviewing is actually a form of activism because people can contribute. Their lived experiences and use that to help other people just such a cool idea. Yeah. Absolutely. If if you feel like going to a rally isn't going to be your speed than I think being able to contribute to this database. It really helps a lot of people out when you put in a review in your area. How do people do that? How can they submit reviews? Yeah. So. They go on they they use our search bar to find the business we use Google places API right now to get all of the business information in the world. So if the business is Google business will will return to you in it'll it'll show up. And then you go to that profile on ample like yelp. And we have the photo of it. There's a big old button that says Atta review and you click on it. And then the way that we currently collect reviews is we ask you to review give a star rating from four different perspectives. We ask you to rate it on how wait inclusive or size inclusive. It is how inclusive towards transpeople or LGBTQ IRA people people in that spectrum how inclusive to towards people with disabilities and how inclusive they are towards people of color, and so perhaps you only have the perspective of a large body person. And you wanna just rate that that's. Totally fine. You can leave the rest Blake. And then you can also have the opportunity to write a narrative review. So that would be like I went into the doctor, and he weighed being even though I didn't want to be. So that's kind of the place that you can say positive or negative your story. So we collect that star rating in that narrative on the businesses. It's so interesting to read through it too. Because I feel like there's these little snapshots of like how people experience weight stigma in the world or other forms of stigma. And also snapshots of how people can do better the sort of surprising experiences that people have or they're like, I just wandered into this coffee shop, and it was actually amazing. Absolutely. I love that about it. It's we really we try to frame it as an educational tool. We don't want to think of it as a way to bash businesses or spread a lot of negativity. We really would prefer to think about it as the. Tool for education. And so if a business gets a bad review, hopefully, they would see that as an opportunity to learn a little bit and to make some changes like, for instance, one of my favorite coffee shops in Portland. That's right by my house is is a wonderful coffee shop, but the reality is that it's just not very physically assessable for people with disabilities and for larger body people. And so, you know, even there's only a few places that I can sit when I go there, and if I had any mobility problems that would be really greatly reduced in I go there because I love the people who run it in. It's right by my house than so find myself there, but I've had to give it up pretty so so review because no the route is that it's it's really not that accessible for people in. I think that hopefully one day soon, I'll get up the courage to tell these incredibly kind people, but to some extent it's just a little bit. Because of the space that they. Have. But then there's other places where I've just been. So pleasantly surprised that the space is so acceptable Gad's interesting too. Because I think like a lot of people who are well intentioned, and maybe just kind of making do with what like space that they have wouldn't necessarily recognize accessibility issues as a problem or even necessarily be able to do too much about it, you know, depending on what the space is. But I think it's just like good to know, you know, and and maybe educates them on like if they ever move or if they do a renovation or whatever it is like think about this. You know, in one thing, I've told other businesses is a big part of it is just awareness that you have some limitations. So if you can kind of reserve one little space and make sure that there's an armless chair there. And that there there's wide aisles if there's if you could make some spots of your business acceptable. Even if you can't change the fact that there's a huge flight of stairs going up to the rest of the part of the. A cafe you can do something maybe in this one little spot in this one corner. And then try to keep that place open and just trying to make sure that your employees are aware of the problem in that there's limitations of your space, and I think a little bit of awareness in compassion from employees go away. Oh, yeah. Totally. And I think that's really the key. It's like awareness and compassion because I think living in diet culture. The narrative is just like you said, you know, larger body people are just a thin person like trapped in this body waiting to get out or whatever. And so larger bodies are not considered in designing spaces because it's just like, well, that's a temporary passing thing or something. Nobody really wants to be larger it so everybody the default is thin, which is just bullshit. And it's not true size diversity as a real thing. Just like every other form of human diversity. And I think it's just not recognized as such because we live in this culture. That's so. Shaming of. I mean, really shaming of lots of different aspects of human diversity, but diet culture specifically really is down on larger bodies. And so doesn't doesn't make space for that doesn't have that compassion. But I think people who know better can do better yet. Agreed. And I think that whenever I try to bring it up. What businesses I almost always experienced them to have a really positive attitude about it. I think everybody knows a larger body person and everybody has someone in their life. Probably an answer uncle, even if even if they don't have friends, and I think that when it's brought up most businesses can see that. It's a problem. And and most businesses have a positive reaction wanna make a positive change every now. And then I do see pushback about, you know, I just can't do this because of my space like this and that, and I try to be pathetic because I've been a small business owner I've. Actually owned a restaurant, and it's it can be really hard to make changes when you're a cash-strapped. But I think there are a few small changes that you can make if you're cash-strapped just have, you know, a couple chairs without arms, and even if for some reason you can't have that out in the space. You can have it in the back, and you can make sure that the wait staff knows that it's okay to ask somebody. Hey, if this chair isn't comfortable for you. We can get a different chair for you. We have something in the back stuff like that. When I've been met with a little bit of resistance about what chairs have to be wear. Yeah. That's interesting to just think about like small changes and Vale ability of some options a nut. Not that it has to be like every single chair in the restaurant is now armless and of a certain size and capacity, but at least a few options. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I personally feel like is in criminal change is is sometimes okay. I think that we can start to make small changes. And then, you know, like, you said when a person gets a new space, then they're probably gonna think twice about some of the decisions that they make in that space next time around. Yeah. And I think as much as we want radical change, and I really wish that everything could just be different overnight. I feel like the realities of life and of like logistics of things, you know, the way that businesses are set up the way that buildings are set up and spaces or setup. Now, it just can't happen overnight. So it will inevitably be a slow process. But I think the more people can just wake up to this. And it's so cool that you have this tool, which is educational on many levels. It's educational for the purposes of people who are using the spaces or services to educate themselves about what's going to be accommodating for them. But then also it's educational to business owners and just making people more aware that this is the thing that needs to be considered. Yeah. Absolute. That was really my dream. I I feel like sometimes review platforms kin can be hard because they, you know, maybe you've experienced that fear, you know, because you obviously own own you run your practice and the fear of the review platform as a bashing thing. I'm gonna be bashed online. And then I'm not going to be able to get clients in. I'm very hyper aware of that again having owned a restaurant where you live in die by reviews. So I really am hoping to set a tone with this that even if there's negative reviews that are left because there's absolutely a place for negative reviews that we can kind of keep it a little less bash. She at a little bit more educational and constructive too. Yeah. Exactly. That's the word. I'm looking for constructive. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. 'cause like that's I mean alternately the goal is. Isn't to tear down small businesses. It's to help them do better. And I think that's what we all want. Really? Yeah. I was hanging out with Reagan Chastain when she came to Portland, and she's a another friend of the app, and we were out to dinner. She said like I was out with a group, and we were at a restaurant and I asked the waiter. You know, do you have another chair for me, and she's very comfortable with being outspoken about it? And she's like, why would I have a angry reaction to that person? I need. I'm I have a thankful reaction that that person was kind to be found me something else and from here on out they'll have a positive experience doing that for people, and hopefully will be able to do that for other customers who might not be able to ask and stuff like that. Right. Yeah. That's true. Because it's it takes a lot to ask. And even to sort of conceive of yourself as someone who needs and is deserving of accommodations for your body is like a big leap for people who are in that self. Loading space of like my body's wrong, and it's my responsibility to fix it. You know, all that stuff that dia culture has fed us. Yeah. And I mean, you know, the culture in general has fed like to trans people too. For example. I think the idea of of being really self affirming and advocating for yourself takes a certain level of self acceptance to start with. Yeah. And I think it it takes practice to because as you do it once it becomes a lot more comfortable to say. Do something else. I or even now I'm more comfortable. Switching out chairs in even when I'm out with a group of thin people and just saying like that chair doesn't work for me. The I need this other chair, and it becomes more comfortable. And I think the reality is that people wanted a lot of people do want to do good. And they want you to be comfortable, and they want you to be there with them. And they're willing to make the changes if if you can ask in some way, right and hopefully ample just the existence of it. And the fact that people are viewing spaces and stuff. We'll start to make asking more of a commonplace thing make like normalized that absolutely end with ample maybe you just go to the coffee shop that has all of the ready of chairs instead because you know, and that's a powerful thing. You know, a lot of people don't wanna be met with a lot of resistance all the time where people in larger bodies are met with resistance as they moved through the world constantly, so one thing that's really nice. It's just being able to look up and say, hey, this is a coffee. Shop that I think I'm gonna have no trouble being in like I can see like I've see somewhat uploaded a photo of the chairs situation. I see that some super fat person has said that this works for even super fat. So I hope that we can avoid some of the discomfort to begin with do some education of the faces that need improvement and empower people to ask for what they need and become trouble. Taking up that space because they deserve it. It's their right. Yes. Eleven so mazing yet will thank you so much Elissa for sharing your story and for telling us about this app and for doing this. I feel like such much-needed project for this culture. Thank you, tell us where people can learn more about you and the app and get on it. Yeah. So the app is at is it ample dot com. It's a web application sometimes people get a little bit confused about that app. Wording. It's it's a website. Right. It looks great on your mobile phone, if you'd like to view it in the browser on your mobile phone or on desktop or whatever. And so, yeah, it's is it ample dot com that you can go and check it out. We've got a blog we've got resources we do things for business owners where you can claim your business and take our pledge of inclusivity, which will get you on that front page map and put a little badge up on your profile. That's really cute, and it allows you to upload a personal statement about your business philosophy. So people use that to say, I'm a health at every size practitioner or my building has two stairs going up to it. But I'm working on getting a ramp, but people use that space for all different kinds of things. So if your business owner in your interested in claiming your business, you can go on and do that on on ample. I think it should be fairly straightforward. We also have a blog about it. And we have it in her frequently asked questions, and there's ways to volunteer where a total volunteer shop. It's an open source project with. Which means all code is available online. We believe in transparency in including other programmers who want to work on it. And so if you're one of all interior, if you wanna go on and just claim your business or make review. That's awesome, all the reviews that we can get is really the best. The what we need, and I'm curious to about the amplified part of it can tell us what that is. Yeah. So we kind of acknowledged early off that not everyone has enough time to sit down and write out review because it does take a moment to right after narrative. And so, and we also saw that what happens a lot is say with like Facebook with Facebook groups a lot of members of the fat community year, the body positive community trans community are members of groups that are kind of specific to that topic. And a lot of times the group serve as recommendations for things. So I I'm involved in Portland health at every size. Is Facebook group, and I'm constantly seeing questions asked and answered about what is good for larger bodies for all different types of things. And so what I wanted to do was be able to create kind of ample super user someone who wants to put a little bit more skin in the game and get involved on a little bit of a higher level, and they have privileges to where they can go on to a business profile and instead of putting in that first hand review, they're able to do what's called amplify it. They click a button, and what it does is. It puts it on that front page map. And it puts it higher in the search results for that area. And we make it clear that this isn't a first hand review. This is just kind of a hot lead like someone in the community who is fat positive or body positive in understands the idea of inclusivity like they have marked this space. And they've heard that the space is a good space, and they're marking it for you to kind of try out. And then hopefully, people will come. Back and make firsthand review. But that's a way that we can get people more involved in their area. So if if you feel like you see a lot of recommendations than you want to kind of be involved on the greater on that greater level building up your geographical location. You can become an amplifier. It's very easy to do. You said us an Email, and we turn on the privileges for you. And we said you information about what it means. And so there's a little a small short process for becoming an amplifier. And then when you do not you'll always see like a big blue button. In addition to the right of review that says amplify and then on the front page. You'll see that some businesses say this business hasn't been reviewed. It's been amplified, which means a trusted super user recommends it that's so cool because I feel like I always am seeing or like in the groups that I manage like the Facebook groups for my online, courses and stuff, you know, people are always asking for recommendations. And then people answer them, and I've always. Is wanted to sort of create a master resource list for those things and it just like gets buried so quickly. You know, especially in like Facebook groups that just churns and then it's hard to search. The search bar isn't always effective. So it's nice to have that have that option of like people who see a lot of reviews and recommendations of businesses to be able to go in and just like put a pin in it. And kind of like Mark it down on the app. Yeah. That was exactly our hope. It's like sometimes all of those things they get kind of locked into these little little or groups the whole goal of ample to kind of bring that information to the surface for everyone to see and for everyone to access so great. I love it much you're doing so we'll put links to that in the show notes. So that people can find you, and it's is it ample dot com is the website. Yeah. Is it ample dot com? Awesome. I'll thank you so much less. That's a pleasure talking with you. Thank you. It was a pleasure. So that. Our show. Thanks again. So much to Elissa Sogo for joining us on this episode, and thanks to you for listening. If you've gotten something out of this podcast, please help us reach more people who need to hear the anti diet message, which let's be real everyone by sharing this episode on apple podcasts, or itunes or your favorite podcast platform sharing. One of the apple platforms helps bring us up higher in the podcast rankings. So that more people discover us, and so that we can continue to drown out the pro diet messages and keep rising up in the health category. You can also leave us a nice rating and review and your podcast provider of choice, which is another way to help new listeners. Discover us and is always so appreciated. If you're looking for some practical tips to help you get started on the anti diet path. Grab my free audio guides seven simple strategies for finding peace and freedom with food. Just go to Kristie Harrison dot com slash strategies to get it. That's Christie Harrison dot com slash strategies to get full show notes from his episode, including all the resources we discussed plus a full transcript, go to Kristie Harrison dot com slash one. Eighty-seven that's Christie, arson dot com slash one eight. Seven and to get the transcript a scroll down to the bottom of the page and enter your Email address. This episode is brought to you by 'neax. Imagine ordering and chatting with doctors all online and getting birth control delivered right to your door every month and turn ex accompany that's here to make getting birth control easier. Noor means fewer doctor visits skipping pharmacy lines and automated refills that you don't even have to think about plus it's the most affordable option out there without insurance and could even be free with insurance. Go to Noor x dot com slash food psych for a twenty dollar credit. That's any are x dot com slash F. O D P S Y C H A big thanks as always to our editor and engineer, Mike LaLonde and to my food psych programs team, including our community and content associate Vinci. Trae our administrative assistant Julianne tastic, and our transcript assistant, Kierra McClellan for helping me out with all the moving parts that go into producing the show every week our album art was photographed by Abby more photography and designed by Meredith noble and our theme song was written and performed by. Caroline penny. Packer rakes. Thanks again for listening and until next time stay site.

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Mac OS Ken: 09.15.2020

Mac OS Ken

17:43 min | 2 months ago

Mac OS Ken: 09.15.2020

"In an. Mac Os Ken, Getting Ready for the thing apple retail try something new and a really exciting update for air pods. It's Tuesday the fifteenth of September Twenty Twenty. I'm Ken Ray and this is news from Mac Os. Ken brought to you by yours truly and sponsored by better help online counseling. That's there for you. Get Ten percent off your first month with Discount Code Moco West can at better help dot com slash mce West can. This show is also sponsored by Mac Pau makers of clean. My Mac acts. Twenty gigabytes of user cast files and language piles and so much. Stuff. Clean. My Mac x found on my machine. Twenty two space I couldn't use full of data for which I had no use. But. It's not just about freeing up space the optimization tools in clean. My Mac acts can help you boot up faster free up ram and maintenance scripts to speed up processes that can slow your Mac down. Sub Either software gave a shout out on twitter yesterday big Fan of Mac PA clean. My Mac got many years ago and my hard drive was much smaller. Keep it today for reasons. Glad to hear them as a sponsor. It's a great utility. You've already got the best computer. Help it run better with clean? My Mac acts. Learn more and grab a free trial at Mac Pau dot com slash podcast. That's M. A. C. P. A. W.. Mac Pa. Dot Com slash podcast. That's Mac. pod Dot com slash podcast for your free trial of clean my Mac X. And the big. Thanks to Mac Pau for sponsoring today's show. Apple spent Monday stepping up its promos slash add game apple insider says the time flies event, which happens today took over the front apple dot com to start the week. The company also bought enough ads on Youtube to get people saying, Hey, apple bought ads on Youtube. The piece as a six second introductory video has started popping up on youtube pre roll videos or. Did on Monday anyway. As what's expected? And No. I have a long-standing tradition of not talking about the thing. We're just about to see happen. That's partly because I don't want to be wrong and partly because it is seriously just about to happen. Instead, I will remind you the time flies event fires off today Tuesday the fifteenth of September at ten. Am Pacific One PM Eastern. You can watch it live on apple site. You can watch it on youtube you can catch it in podcast form audio and or video on apple podcasts. News sites and blogs will have it covered twitter. We'll be all at twitter and of course. will hit the highest highs and lowest lows on Wednesdays Mac West. Ken. Also spend the rest of the week talking about the announcements on in a few minutes. Wednesday through Friday. News of a smaller thing that may become a bigger thing were more common thing anyway. Michael Stebner at nine to five Max apple appears to be testing and easy in and out concept for retail called Apple Express. That's the apple logo and the Word Express. The apple store in burlingame California is trying it out for that. The piece says apple has partitioned off the entry way to the store with a temporary wall would counters and plexiglass shields where it can serve customers. Two sets of shelves also display popular items available to purchase according to the report. It looks like a knockoff apple store to honest the kind of thing you might see an airport may be. And yet steeper says, the customer experience exceeds what apple has been able to offer at many store locations that have reopened for curbside or appointment only service. Customers with existing online orders can simply walk up to the counter and collect their purchase genius bar appointments or served at a second counter. Only one customer per counter is allowed in the stores entry and walk in shopping is not available at this time. What did we hear from Chatterjee's note over the weekend that only fifty eight percent of apple stores in the US or currently open While the nine to five Mac pieces says, there's no indication that more apple stores will take the Express Lane. Could be a good way to add to that fifty eight percent. especially with product expected. Any Day now. Now you didn't ask, but here's the story about which I am most excited today. I. Mean Stories that we know I'm most excited about today's event, but we don't know that story yet. Of the stories, we know I most excited about air pods to an air pods pro firmware version three, eight, two, eight, three. macrumors says that was released on Monday since apple doesn't put release notes for air pods firmware updates. Took Awhile to find out why we might get excited reports from later in the day like another one from macrumors say this week's update brings spatial audio to apple's top of the line stoppers. You know remember what spatial audio is. Let macrumors. Wow us all introduced at W. W. DC and coming and S. fourteen. The peace spatial audio brings movie theater like sound to the ear buds. Spatial audio uses dynamic head tracking to create immersive sound anywhere in space by applying directional audio filters and subtle frequency adjustments. Spatial audio uses the gyroscope and accelerometer an air pods pro and phone to track the motion of your head and your iphones position, comparing the motion data and then remapping the sound field so that it stays anchored to your device even as your head moves. While IOS fourteen isn't out yet Betas of the Os are and spatial audio appears to be a go for those users. The macrumors forms of the punctuality appears to be on for Apple, TV plus content. Exciting is that is to an audio nerd like myself. That's not the only feature that got turned on on Monday macrumors says the feature that allows for automatic switching between devices seems also to have gone live available for air pods and air pods pro. The peace says automatic switching Wilkin next the air pods to any apple device signed associated with your I cloud when you activate audio on that device and are actively using it. When the says available for air, pods, I assume they mean air pods to since. That's as far back as Mondays, update goes. Turning on spatial audio air pods. Bro also makes me wonder whether we'll get IOS fourteen soon-. Sooner I mean then we'll get the next phone. Maybe we'll hear something today. Holy Cow California may have finally heard what apple and Google had been up to for the past several months. Apple insider says the University of California San Diego is set to launch an exposure notification APP built on the Apple Google contact tracing API. According to the report, the voluntary program which will be available to students faculty and staff works the same as many other tracker APPs that have been developed this year while the framework has been available for some time. Now, California's Department of Public Health has been hesitant to adopt it. UCSD will function as a proof of concept that could open up the APP to the rest of the state. I know the state's been busy with forest fires and the occasional riot but how is it just now getting around to this? Oh wait it may not be. The UCSD program starts sometime in the next couple of weeks it'll then run for four weeks. If that goes well, and if the California Department of Public Health Approves it. Then it'll be available for the rest of the state. Because not having, it has gone peachy. More news in a moment but first a word from better help online counseling. That's there for you. Talk to my new counselor yesterday. Nice Guy I'm sure he'd have said Hey if he knew that we were going to be talking about him today. We've been texting over the past week or two, but yesterday was our first real time session. I chose phone because you know me and audio. It was up to me though phone video text chat. Is. Everything. Great now. No because that's not what better health is, it's not one and done. It's working with a licensed professional therapist whatever is holding you back or keeping you down. Maybe you know what that is. Maybe, you need to figure out what that is. If you can't do it alone. Better help is there. So. Many people have been using better health at their recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states. As a listener, you'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting better help dot com slash Mac os can. Join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Again, that is better help H. E. L. P.. Better help dot com slash. Mac West can. One more time. It's better help dot com slash Muko West Ken And a big thanks to better help for sponsoring today's show. Apple's take more flack over its advertising move or Rather. It's moved to stop advertisers from tracking users across absent websites without their knowledge. You. Probably remember the move about which I'm talking in case you don't apple insider explains saying the changes in Iowa fourteen apply to fire for advertisers or ide- FAA tags. which allow advertisers to collect aggregate data about users without harvesting their personally identifiable information in IOS fourteen apple is requiring that absent advertisers obtained permission from users to track them across APPS and websites owned by other companies through a prominent pop up box. Give people the option to have that not happen. Advertisers figure people might opt to have that not happen. And so apple insider says the Partnership for responsible addressable media has written a letter to Apple. It's hoping to engage in a dialogue with apple before it pulls the trigger on the privacy feature. That was supposed to happen with the release of West Fourteen hearing the hue and Cry Apple pushed the privacy feature out too early next year. According to apple insider while the letter praises Apple's decision to delay enforcement of the new privacy features it requests an urgent meeting to ensure we use that additional time to launch a collaborative process to address widespread questions and concerns around these upcoming changes. In particular, the letter reads we hope to better understand the specific rationale for such changes, how the changes will be implemented and what steps might be taken by marketers, publishers, developers, and other parties to ensure that critical functionality is preserved. Taking a less conciliatory approach with the CEO of Instagram CNBC ran a piece over the weekend that had Adam Maseri chief executive of the facebook subsidiary saying it'll push back on the. FAA, changes on the way. massery would apparently have people believe that his concern is for the little guy. Wait probably the instagram user is the little guy. Instagram as of course, the big guy so I guess his concern is for the middleman. Appearing. On CNBC's squawk box massery said if the ecosystem changes in the way that advertisers can't really measure their return on investment that's really going to be yes. Somewhat problematic for our business, but it's going to be problematic for all the big ad platforms roughly equally. So I'm not that worried about it over the long run. It's going to be much much more problematic for all the small businesses. There are millions of them out there that rely on to target customers and reach those customers particularly during a pandemic when they're hurting. We believe that there's a way to be really responsible and give people control over their data and transparency into their data but without cutting off our understanding and therefore operating blind. Somehow this ties in. To massery to apple having too much power. Quoting the again, they haven't immense amount of power. They can just decide we can't launch new APPS. At any given moment, we've seen a series of articles and even some lawsuits on their influence and power over developers over the last couple months. He seems to be zipping past the part where apple in this case is giving power to the users. Eventually. And finally today story that has no small amount of strange. Did you hear about the four hundred, thousand dollars worth of counterfeit air pods seized in Queens New York by US Customs and border? protection. Two thousand boxes of knockoffs according to the agency that they had been real data fetched three, hundred, Ninety, eight, thousand dollars us at retail. Here's the problem they were real. They just weren't real air pots. The Mac observer ran a piece on. Monday, saying see BP had goofed. Rather than catching two thousand boxes of counterfeit air pods, what they actually grabbed two thousand boxes of one plus Buds Wireless. That look very similar to air pots. Some mistake Ha. Well hold on the piece from the verge says e BP is standing by its action. And a statement of the verge CBP said. Upon examining the shipment in question, a CB import specialist determined that the subject ear buds appeared the violate apples configuration trademark. Has Configuration trademarks on their brand of ear buds and has recorded those trademarks with CB. While similarities do not counterfeits make customs and Border Protection says CBS's seizure of the ear buds in question is unrelated to the images or language on the box. Company, does not have to put an apple word mark or design on their products. To violate these trademarks. The bird has the agency saying that one plus or whoever imported the one plus buds will have many opportunities through the adjudication process to provide evidence of their product does not violate the relevant record trademarks. One plus offered no comment for the report from the verge. Meanwhile the P. says it is important to note that apple itself hasn't taken any legal action against one plus over the one plus bonds and the ear buds remain for sale from one plus and many US retailers you can still get them without issue. And that's unclear whether BP plans to seize future shipments. Mac Os Cam brought to you by me and sponsored by Mac Pau makers of clean. My Mac axe learn more at. Mac Pau dot com slash podcast. This show also sponsored by better help get ten percent off your first month with discount. Code Mac Os Ken at better help dot com slash Mac os Ken. Advertising handled by backbeat media online at backbeat media, dot com you can reach me a couple of ways. In Poe at Monaco West Ken, DOT, com or call seven, one, six, seven, eight, zero, four, zero, eight, zero. We will talk again tomorrow. Until done, that is news from Moco West? Ken? I'm Ken Ray. Chow.

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#88: Nick Uhas  Science Stuntman, YouTube and TikTok Sensation

Wild Business Growth Podcast

1:14:54 hr | 8 months ago

#88: Nick Uhas Science Stuntman, YouTube and TikTok Sensation

"It is a simple as creating something that no one else has ever seen before. Hey Oh welcome back to the wild business growth podcast presented by HIP Utrecht. This is your place to hear from a new entrepreneur innovator every single Wednesday morning. Who's turning wild ideas into wild growth? I'm your host Max branstetter digital marketing due to hip with direct. And you can reach me. Amac's at hippodrome dot com for help using your podcast as a marketing tool. This is episode number eight hundred eight hundred eighty eight and today's guest is nick you Haas. He started his career as a pre med student and then went down a pretty different path than your average premed student. He started making these fascinating and super creative. Science experiments started posting on social media in now has amassed over half a million youtube subscribers in over seven million tick tock followers his videos consistently get millions of views. And he's made stops on big brother. America's got talent Doctor Ause and the today show along the way you'll hear how he turned himself in his content into a sensation and the science behind everything from creativity to garlic breath. That's nickel nutshell. But as he says let's go bigger. Enjoy the show already. We are here with my fellow native. Ohioan nickel Pedia Nicu Haas Nick. How're you doing today? Good doing good as anyone could be doing me. Corentin yes Tis The season right. Thank you so much I know you got so much on. Obviously it's crazy time at the time record in daycare for making the time. Today we are going to get into a ton of what you've done in made turn your career into with the coolest science experiments and and other stuff Even gold mining that you'll ever see and this has led you to be feature on everywhere from America's got talent at Doctor Ause to the today show so naturally we're going to start off by talking about rollerblading. Yes a great place to start. Actually honestly it is a great place to start yes as really smooth still fish or whatever tricks you. I don't know tricks you rollerblading but but roller but there is a thing called a fish brand. Just say you know a fish brain. Okay all right. Well we'll have to dive into that. But but rollerblading so Somehow certain point when you're starting your career you became a a stunt rollerbladers. So where the heck did this come from yet. And I'm going to take just one step back further than that right because it will it will make sense in. This will all factor if we take one chapter back right like the along with you l. It would actually be wrestling so I was a wrestler before I got involved in anything with this X. Games probe and stuff and it was really in wrestling wrestling is by far the hardest sport. I don't care what anybody says. They can argue it. They know like football baseball skill. Bubba no other sport it is literally just you and your in your competitor out competing. Mono Mono together and then whoever loses gets embarrassed in front of a crowd and whoever wins gets to be spared the embarrassment it is as close to like gladiator as possible. So I've Two brothers I'm I'm the youngest of three and when I was in grade school they got into wrestling and they basically just started beating me up and I thought man I cannot have this. This is garbage. I don't WanNa be the one who just gets you know the floor mops West and so I decided to start wrestling as well when I was in the sixth grade. And that gave me just a little leg up. Just a little tiny leg-up for all of the wrestlers. That would be in seventh grade when I joined the middle school team because it had like a little bit of knowledge of wrestling. I got put on a team as seventh graders so it was a leap ahead. My seventh year year. I just got destroyed. I mean like everybody that arrests old. I just got wrecked because most seventh graders aren't on eighteen by the time that I got to eighth grade had spent a whole year competing with these kids who are better than me. My eighth grade year. I was like close to undefeated because I was wrestling. Finally I was wrestling kids. Who were my age in a little bit younger? The same thing happened freshman year. I came with a little bit of experience and got put on Varsity as a freshman and I was wrestling kids with four years more experience than I and it was brutal. Dude I just got. I had a losing record. I don't even know if I even like finished. Actually the six minutes I literally just I think I just got ex- baller pinned you really good at getting beat up is what you're saying. Yes and Zell. We would have sort of like breakout sessions and they would take kids from the Varsity team in it. Have goal setting workshops and we would sit down and we would out our goals in pretty much like everyone. Who's in wrestling Has the same goal and that goal is you want to be a state placer or make it to the state tournament. People will say things. I WANNA be a state champion. But that's like saying like I WANNA be a super bowl champion. It's like it's really. It's really hard to do not the easiest now and so we wrote out our goals. I WANNA be state placer. I WanNa go to the state tournament and you know. Here's the years that I WANNA do it and I set it out and I posted that piece of paper in front of me at my work bench back at my house. And so I look at it every single day in compounded the effort basically to do this was just literally getting so racks as a freshman. The embarrassing level was so high and so I remember literally crying underneath the bleachers insane. Promising myself that I would within my power I would never ever be this bad at wrestling ever again so I went the extra mile I started doing after school programs. I was in the gym. I ran throughout the summer. Meaning like I. I participated in the cross country training courses in order to really be like the best wrestler possible coming in so in my in my sophomore year literally within one year. I became a state alternate meaning like I went from like a nobody like Zip Zero Zilch. Two one win away from going to the state tournament which is basically the same like one win away from going to the Super Bowl. You know. It's like yeah. That is a leap in that leap. So much gratification came from that and so much proof of this system of goal setting and doggedly working at your goals specifically that are fine tuned and kind of blocking everything else out was proved to me like oh my gosh. This works so ipod the same concept my junior year and then became I actually went to the state tournament unless the gone to who wanted to And then my senior year I placed fourth in the state in like when I was only podium. I remember thinking to myself my in four short years I went from being lily as a totally losing record to being where everybody wants to be which is placed the United States in it. It confirmed this like this belief in my my soul. Even that's not so dramatic but it was like really honestly like the core personality had really written the script that you can literally do anything in life as long as you write it out. You stay focused on it. And you don't deviate from that course and so again like I said this does factored into the whole royal wedding thing. So factor so we speed up a little bit. When I was a teenager I was born in. I was born in the eighties so you were born as a teenager. The teenager that's impressive. That's a precedent itself. It was crazy. Came out of the womb arguing with my parents car immediately But was born in eighty so I was a teenager in the nineties in in the nineties. Big Craze of rollerblading in dislike specifically this stunt role wedding where he had like a wallet chain long hair and these like tight jeans. Those were the days. Yeah you probably remember probably owned a pair of jeans jeans yourself. I went through a major extreme sports phase with was obsessed with the X. Games in in Cleveland. As you know we had the gravity games for a few years as well so many fond memories in extreme sports and and rollerblading world. Yes so you clearly remember this whole this whole fad. When I was a teenager that was like what all the cool kids were doing. Like you know the fringe misfits in like that seemed very attractive as a teenager. Who wants to rebel in so I like became kind of obsessed with skating skating culture in the whole thing in like wall a lot of my friends. They did it for a little bit. Maybe you're too and they kinda like dropped out or whatever you know graduated on and went to other things. I kind of became obsessed with it and I started to apply this mindset for this wrestling stuff that I did to rollerblading so upon graduating high school of which little random fun fact. I took a trip with my dad for seven days around the world in went to seventeen different countries in between my high school graduation and my first day of college a little bit of a crash course and for life and so by the time I got back I felt like I had this like amazing mindset from wrestling I had this real world experience for how the world works and how to socialize and how to be out in the real world and I kind of told myself even though I was going to Miami of Ohio as a freshman a biology major. I had told myself that I really my goal was that I wanted to be a professional stunt rollerblade and always wanted to do it of. There's probably no better time in my life. You know the older you get the more responsibilities you have is. I came up with this pseudo plan that might by the time that I reached mice semester. Break for For Christmas I had proposed. This planned my parents which was my parents said. Hey Listen we will subsidize your college career by providing for you X. Amount of dollars for your tuition through years one through three or four as an in state resident. Whatever that is where that looks like. That's that's a pretty good amount money in so I decided to take that and then dice it up and then re deliver it sort of under the guise of. Why would it be such a good idea for me to move to California instead of Stan Ohio but really the reason I was doing this was so that I could pursue professional stunt rollerblading out in San Diego. Of course everybody goes through that exact thought process in career plant. Yeah as a freshman in college and like you know what this just isn't for me I I'M GONNA be a pro role of winter so I was going to move to California because the UC school system was better in premiss. It was ranked veteran premed than Miami of Ohio. At the time guy said like I'm GonNa Move California. I'M GONNA become a California residents from going to transfer to UCSD. And that's GonNa make me a better student overall. And I'll have a better chance of getting into medical school and I said all you have to do is basically. He's like reallocate the same funds. You're gonNA give me anyways as an in state student and I'm going to basically go to a two year school and apply the rest of those funds to me living out in California and then once I become a resident then I'll be able to go to UCSD for the same price. As what I was going to to my behind for in so I it was a crazy plan. I mean it literally sounds ridiculous because it is ridiculous. I also kind of factored in that I would. I would somehow make money through skating sort of I don't know that was sort of like a fuzzy portion says. Become the skating money always comes. Yeah exactly and so my parents said okay. You know we saved this capital for you to do this if this is what you think is the right choice for you. Like we're going to miss you but Take your ninety four four door a chord with raw spots and we'll see out there will come visit and said. Oh I moved out to California I believe in. May Two thousand three to four in my underlining goal truthfully though was to allocate all that extra time in all that effort to becoming a professional stunt role letter because the industry is actually in San Diego. It's not Los Angeles. Even though it is sort of this extension reach of the entertainment industry so I moved out with my two my two friends at the time. My Buddy nate and my buddy vents and when we got out there it was everything but wallace. I mean it was. It was pretty much a trainwreck. To begin with in the first like three months both guys had already established that they no longer wanted to live in California. It pretty much crumbled pretty quickly but I was so steadfast. I really wanted to become a professional role later. I had moved out with those guys and I moved to Live in an area that was like a little probably closer in age range to where I wanna be which was There was a school around. That area called. Sds You got like a A room in a house of nine people living at Su the Aztecs. Yeah and one of the things that I learned was that essentially like not knowing what it would mean to be a Pro. How you get yourself out there what you do. How do you network? How do you pitch yourself? How do you sell yourself in this? Very social industry in many ways like what I learned is that even though I was out competing in competitions I was rubbing elbows with the other pros I was going to. The skate parks being friendly doing everything that one should do. In order to be pro any type of industry where you're being filmed or videographer or it's a social industry really u-turn pro or you make money or you become a center of focus person within the industry by selling yourself by be liked in being in the industry and being present in it was kind of a little bit of a an awakening to realize that like your skill level is only perhaps just like a little bit of what really matters and that a lot of actually matter a lot more when it comes to being a professional and while. I was out there. I got what's called the original sponsorship so it's like local skate park or whatever those guys than Turned me onto skating and bigger competitions and very much again like this. The wrestling thing which why I brought up is that he very much lost faith at a certain point in time kind of convinced that I was going to go back to Ohio. Like a lot of people do they sort of retreat back homes and they'd Westwood their tail between their legs and it was actually like in a December January type law that I remember man like it was. It was worth the run. I learned a lot. I did a lot. I really kind of gave it my all. But I'm I'm pretty much gonNA pack it up and go home. It was is interesting because at that time frame. I was actually winning a lot of competition. That was winning competitions getting sections and videos. I was I was really rising up in the industry but I felt like I wasn't rising up fast enough. A good lesson in business overall which is basically like a lot of the fruits of your labor aren't really seen until further down the road so you may be like winning in the time being but you may not be actually seen right other the result way long way longer and so I had literally like decided to pack up shop and I Sponsor said. Hey listen we got you into regional qualifier for the asa the aggressive Skating Association? Which I was like. Oh my gosh guys like. I'm not qualified like I'm not qualified to be here because I didn't I didn't even qualified the local level as like. You're really good. You know you're going to be fine. Where are shirt? I was so nervous. I was so like petrified nervous to compete in this competition because like some of the big name pros. We're going to be there. They were just all like really big is like you know. You don't want to sort of put yourself out there and Kinda get wrecked especially if you're not really supposed to be. It just looks really bad. So after the first round I was in the top seven and the top ten. Turn Perot so highlighted. Couldn't believe it. I was so floored I was actually like within range of turning pro like just lifelong childhood dream. I'd wanted to be processed ten in here. I am nineteen years old and I was like so close to like you know achieving this thing and so when they finally talented all up I ended up seventh. And so that actually qualified me to become a pro for asa so so you achieve your goal then achieve the dream at that point of your life you got to point. I got to that point and it was such a shock to the system. You know it was almost like the wrestling stuff. Felt like it was like A. I had a coaching staff and I had people there that were there to support me. You had all these things and this was the first thing that they had done. Really as like an entrepreneur like no one say. No one told me to do it. Everyone told me not to do it every morning. What are you thinking? Don't do this like I broke my ankle. I broke my wrist. I broke my tailbone actually. The first day that I moved out to a terrible terrible terrible pain was awful. If you're listening to this and had no idea kind of who nickel? Pto IS WHO Nikki. Haas's you'd think you're kind of like a multi. Decade career professionals stunned rollerblading. But so now now you're known for there's so many things in addition to that so it's pretty crazy. What what really sort of teed me up for actually getting into all this science stuff was the fact that I had learned how to become a professional in entertainment based industry so while everyone thinks Rollerblading is like a sport. It's really how it looks when you're flipping through a magazine you're looking at like how does how does the picture look. You know when. You're looking at video video footage. It's how did how did how did he performed the tricks. So it's actually much more of an entertainment based industry than it is a sport based industry in Sukarno. Unbeknownst to myself I had learned how to become professional entertainer in so like with that little notch in my belt. I had realized I got new point which is hilarious pitch parents and going to UCSD. At the time that I was out there they had actually changed the requirements for who is a resident in who is not I now did not qualify to become a resident even had been out there for two years and I had a job and it changed my address and had a driver's license and all the things I was technically not a resident because my parents tax returns were not also California so I basically did what everyone would do. In that scenario and I went to Ohio state and became a Buckeye. There you go yeah. This is a feeder school. That like I would accept all my credits across all Miami. Santa Mesa College at one point in time may actually had gone to Yale University They were willing to take credits. I was a Buckeye by birth. Every single person in my family graduated from Ohio state in so I decided okay. I'm going to do it I'm GonNa. I'm GONNA graduate in Kinda like get right back into it And I was thinking of the time skating. I'M GONNA come back to California at some point in time in so. My Major was biology in so in my first year. When I started taking organic chemistry I realized that I had been off something that I probably could not chew and that was taking an organic chemistry and being professional roller in Ohio. At the same time so I call them my team manager and I said I'm going to have to take like a break in so I'm John with organic chemistry because like this is going to affect my my trajectory as a pre med student. I'M GONNA have to focus on this. And he said no sweat. Dude you know the lines open whenever you want to come back in you come back and so I started focusing on my studies as a Pre Med student and I took it so seriously just like everything else that had done up to this point and ended up graduated in Ohio state with a three point. Nine two so like I was like premed guy in congrats on that. That's a hell of a GPA. Especially in that field and so when I ended up graduating I thought about you know. Okay I could go to medical school. Which was sort of a plan all along or maybe perhaps could explore some other categories my super senior year. I took summer school at Yale University and while I was there I took economics video production course and might be. Yeah at Yale was a guy named Kurt Hugo Schneider who has huge Youtube Channel. At the time it was just starting to and he had won the first viral video. Where Michael Jackson? And he was he produced a music and went crazy viral. He was on Ellen. He was on Oprah all these late night shows. I thought Myself Man. I don't know what is youtube stuff is but this looks awesome like this looks way cooler than being a doctor and I got ahead of time. Been thinking man maybe like maybe just like sites. Maybe I just don't really want to be a physician navy. I really want to be in entertainer instead. Maybe I really wanted to go into entertainment when you had that realization in Ultimo. Obviously like if you look at your career now you obviously decided to go down that path and know a quick search on Youtube or Toco Willa give you plenty results in in plenty of videos experiments in your feet would what were your parents and Kinda everybody in your inner circle. What was their reaction to you. Going down the quote unquote entertainment or Youtube route. As opposed to finding a med school and residency it was brewed. Wasn't either weren't like. Oh sure sweetie go yeah. No it wasn't like okay. Yeah Hey look you. Don't other things you could probably do this to know like. That's what I wanted to happen. That did not happen. The true story actually as I was in a fraternity owes in Doylestown Delta. But my friend who was actually another rollerblade her at the time who lived in Cleveland. That's how we became friends. Whose name was Dave's Dave was another fraternity called Fifi in fights. I had this thing called the business. Dolder leadership academy and was down in Compost Lucas. In I at the time at at Ohio state was like really really really searching actually wanting to like have some type of career direction and so this career type like leadership academy that happened down in Cabo San. Lucas seemed like that was going to be the answer to all of my problems. Which was like they would sort of. Incubate your wants and desires and they would pair you up with other professionals to say. Hey maybe this is good for you. Maybe this isn't it will give you a real world taste of what careers could be like based off of people who actually worked in industry and so I had applied to it and I got did not and so I applied again and I got denied but I'd already made up my mind to go so I actually snuck in with a fake identity. Who doesn't do that who who doesn't sneak into a leadership academy in a foreign country And so I became I. I took a guy's name tag who didn't show up for the week. And I became his patron mcardle and I ultimately ended up taking the course and it really changed my whole outlook on careers career projections the whole Shebang. And when I came back actually from spring break I remember so excited had piff. Unie and I remember telling my dad. We were sitting at starbucks. And I said Dad. I said I'm not going to become a doctor. I'm going to become an entrepreneur. Dad like for rigs out. I mean I I might as well have told them like you know I am. I actually Jeffrey Dahmer. I mean it was. That conversation comes next right. He exactly and by the way I am actually a serial killer. It was so like if I was shocked. Man I really was like I was shocked by the reaction because I really thought that they would be like as energetic excited as I was because to be truthful like I kind of felt like I got on the premed wagon and I never got off but I never really considered. Why or do I even WanNa be a doctor? It's a very common problem. You see this all the time in college people get on these trajectories from freshman year. The parents maybe confirm it because their parents are a doctor. Lawyer engineer whatever it is on the blank and then they go down this road and by the time that they're like junior senior they're like. Oh my God. I didn't realize that this whole time. I never wanted to do this. Because they were never exposed right. Yeah we've had a couple of previous guests who both have our lawyers and spent some times you know practicing attorneys and kind of big law big corporate law firms and then both of them time realized. I wanted to do something very different than this in the same sort of thing. I'm sure happens a lot of med school as well and your experience but sometimes it takes getting there and actually experiencing yourself to actually realize like Holy Shit. I WanNa do this not that. So you're you're you're definitely an example that as well. I want to dive into some of your your youtube prowess in actually and we can talk. Some tick tock as well 'cause believe it or not I discovered you on tick Tock and I'm not even a big tick Tock user myself but you've completely blown up on tick tock. Obviously the past year almost a year at the time of this recording. Yeah but but you. This is kind of like a fast forward of the entrepreneurial entertainer route that you had been thinking about after you had that a piff. Unie in. So what is it that you enjoy the most about doing these science experiments in in fascinating videos that you create like just to give you like a super like Hopscotch Ford. You know it's the answer your question here. Like basically post graduating. I decided that entertainment was the thing. I didn't know what direction to go but I had this science based knowledge from all this work that had done in the pre Medfield I actually originally moved to New York City to become like an actor said no I eventually found myself in hosting very quickly I thought hosting was a much better fit because I could just beat me. Hosts are awesome. Whether they're you know. Tv podcast you know. Yeah any host have absolutely and so I did like Red Carpet Interviews and I excelled in hosting so I got my first agent while doing that in New York and then I wanted to make a splash and went on big brother. I gained a little bit of a social media following. I wanted to keep moving forward so I did a kick starter and started a youtube channel. That was science based entertainment. Because I figured that Disney the best thing for me to do because I have the science understanding and the knowledge and now I understand how to be in front of the camera and how to produce content so then I moved to l. a. and I pursued that doggedly in the time it was trying to build my audience knows I went on America's got talent went on the show. I did all these guest stars for other larger Youtube channels like Smash Smash Squad eventually ended up working with people like David Dobric and then in this sort of timeframe six years down the road of being in La which again working entertainment. The whole way through hosted a Netflix show. We just shot. Second Season of the Netflix show called Bond Way and yeah and doing TV stuff to this thing came around called. Tick Tock in at the time everyone was like. Isn't that what you do like dances on? Isn't that for dancing dancing right in the whole time through? I've I always remember thinking to myself because you did kind. You're GONNA play less. Live you all these conferences. In everyone says the same thing when they're up on stage in someone raises the hand the go. Hey what would you say? The best advice is to be a youtuber and usually when like hand green will answer a go back to two thousand three and I'm always like Like that is the worst answer. Because you feel like you're helpless. You can't do that. You don't time machine on flux. Capacitor League like you might have one. But that's a separate story the next media but but then you WANNA extrapolate. Wh what are they really saying what they're saying? Is that early operas really win in the social media space in so. I remember thinking like anytime. I could ever get a chance to be an early adopter on any other platform. I'm going to take it and I'M GONNA RUN WITH IT. And so there. There were some other apps along the way that actually spent a Lotta time. China develop me not developing the absolute need to develop my my presence on the rise and those those literally died like you've probably never even heard of them because they just died out like They were video based asset were similar to instagram. They just totally done and so When he was around measly did not make any sense to me. I was not doing dances. That was not doing lip synching. That was not my Dick Win. Tick Tock came round to talk about around for about a year and my niece at the time was like hey you should do this thing and as a. I don't do dance it's everything and then I was also at the same time working with David Dobric and the dog squad and Jason. Nash was like hey you would kill it on tech stocks and they had a guest of the time he was some wild animal park guy and he was like do you. You really would in so like I always got to trust the Wild Animal Park Guy when you give her advice from it was not the tiger king however You just gotTa go with it so I was like are you know he'll look it's worth investing my time energy and effort into and so. I started really really like re shooting and recapturing in redoing all of all of our successful youtube videos in in the world of social media in this space. Your currency is your time. I mean really like your time is how you divvy up your capital and so I spent a lot of time recreating science experiments and putting them on Tick Tock. Reshot on iphone formatted for vertical video in a very short amount of time. We got someone over at talks. Like hey we really want to be more science stuff. You're sort of our best practices. We started following those best practices and then we started figuring out. How do you get a video? Two million views. Okay how you get people to follow you okay. And we went from like one to three to five to seven million pretty fast. We started the talk channel in And we're now at seven point two million so like Holy Shit. We went fast congrats. Yeah well congrats on that. And it's crazy. It's really mind blowing when you think about like the Youtube. You've been on for so long but so many hours in your videos like if you check out your videos there so professional so well done like. I'm sure like you've put your blood sweat and tears into every single Youtube Video. And then you come onto tick tock in obviously as you mentioned. You know you're working very hard to talk as well but you you've been on tick tock for far less than you have been on youtube time wise and now all of a sudden you have significantly more followers on talk than you do. Youtube subscribers was just just crazy to think about it is it you know what's even crazier is like. I remember the first day that I got on it and I remember thinking myself okay. Well let's let's see who's on this in the in the science world in so I started going through and I googled searched in the actual like bar for every single big youtuber. Their name their username their actual name and no-one was on tech's literally no one. There wasn't a single science based information based person on. Tick Tock and I thought Oh my God this is my golden moment like the Like I'm sure music started playing in real life when that you and you saw the angels started with the trumpets and I thought man I'm I'm GonNa go for it. I'm just GonNa you know even if I spend you know couple of thousand dollars worth of personnel For in Radio and some of these experiments it's going to be worth it in in kind of like in a really good timeframe to We were doing stuff with David Dover. Who's like a social media? Behemoth's Yes that definitely factored into moving the needle but we found like working with David. Doing these hosts like fast-tracked us. I mean it. The growth was phenomenal off a one video that had two hundred sixty four million views. We went from three million to six nine begin. Three million followers off of one is that the elephant toothpaste one. Yeah Yeah Oh which is an incredible name itself. real quick. What is elephant toothpaste? Like what's what's the chemicals that are in that and I know that sounds very proper when I say what's the chemicals but you know we get the question a lot actually so there is no toothpaste involved just enough. There are no elephants. Either elephants base is the wrong ingredients are thirty. Five percent hydrogen peroxide. And then what you what you end up doing. Is You put So like a concentrated dish soap in that hydrogen peroxide in you knicks with it a catalyst in our case use TASSIE MIGHT. I'd you could use. Yeast were sodium iodide. They work the same way. And what they do is they. Strip one of the oxygen off of hydrogen peroxide and they create Odu gas because oxygen by itself doesn't exist naturally it basically combines with another oxygen very quickly because of the valence electrons that the chemistry of it basically it does bind very quickly to create. Oh two which is Oxygen Gas in that happens on a molecular level. And what happens? Is that auction? Gas gets caught in the soap. That's in that mixture in it begins to form a bubble but that bubble expands rapidly as the other. Oh two molecules join the bubble and it creates what would appears like foam out of out of nothing out of thin air elephant toothpaste elephants base and a very small container. The pressure builds so quickly that it ends up like shooting like ballooning in what looks like this explosion of foam like in a lateral and vertical manner. And then there's like steam that comes up over the mound of foam because it's a it's an exothermic reaction so it's releasing basically what it's releasing water vapor in so. It is very impressive reaction. It is and I think it's one thing when you describe it in but it's like you totally have to see it yourself to really get the full gist of it. Like when when you watch that. It's I I don't want to spoil the video for anybody that hasn't seen it so just say go check it out. It's probably has got to be your most popular experiment that you've done there but it is absolutely insane. What happens with just you know the That little chemical mix up that you're talking about imagine you started your own podcast. You're growing your brand sharing your expertise. Maybe even your terrible puns in meeting fascinating people. That is awesome now. Imagine all the hours you've lost every week due to the PODCAST DEMANDS. Not so awesome. I am your podcast producer. Email me at Max at hippodrome DOT COM. That's a really cool. When when you think of the other experiments that you've done what else comes to mind is maybe your most memorable or the most surprising thing that's ever happened. As far as experiments go crazy and you kind of mentioned we spent so much time energy and effort on Youtube in like years thousands of hours thousands of dollars in sometimes those videos they don't they're not seen as much because that space is so crowded. The Youtube space is so crowded associated that a lot of our like best moments pre. Tick Tock actually just never seen To to the degree that they're seeing on on tic TAC. I mean no matter what I applaud on. The average view is going to be close to a million views in say tight. Just naturally happened. Yeah good the The average duration is probably around like twenty seconds or so depending on on the clip lancs which is a lot for. Yeah Bo you add up. The hours launched. It is unbelievable that one video that has two hundred four million views is like in days like days worth of time because you know they start breaking it down by hours and then you just start to today's and it's like I reckon metrics for you years years Worthy Watch time in. So what one of the things I? I remember distinctly. That was so neat and so cool and I just wish to talk with even around for us. Because we weren't shooting video is that we saw this him by we. It was me and my best friend. Mike who we were roommates in New York City. Who's now a producer over the today? Show him and I ran only one day. We're like HEY DUDE. You want an adventure. Let's just let's just do just the craziest adventure we could possibly in. So I was like dude. I I had this idea and Mike down for I don't even care what it is. I'm just let's just do. I said there is a ball Keno in East Java Indonesia that is Louie on the other side of the world and at midnight. Roughly speaking it Mus- pure liquids offer in that liquid sulfur catches on fire and it creates fumes that are toxic. And we'll kill you but the flame and the The molten sulphur itself Burns this really vibrant blue at night and it looks like the volcanoes erupting blue lava and we were. We were both sold and so we ticket to Jakarta and we flew from Los Angeles to New York City to Japan then eventually to Jakarta Jakarta to Bali and then Bali by by boss and then by ferry and then eventually foots up this volcano. So that's all it took to get there and then You hike in at midnight so you can see. They have enough darkness. And I'd guide takes you down into this crater which is also like if it didn't sound dangerous enough it's also the world's largest acidic lake that just so happens to be next to the largest sulfur you know flame Naturally occurring in. So you see this thing at midnight and it's shooting twenty foot blue flames and then below. It is what appears to be losing out Balu Lava. That's dripping down the flames. All the way to this acidic late in the experience was like it was something that we laughed him when we did it and we were there and then we were like back on the airplane. We were like dude. We really just do that like that. Actually just happened. I mean it was so it was such a departure from reality. It was such like a niche that we finally ended the youtube video out of it. I think one hundred thousand years or whatever like over the course of time but which by the way is is like melting discuss. You're just so you're so used to the insane numbers on Tick Tock. You're getting now our like You know so many people hundred thousand. That's you know that's like a lifetime. Yes but like that that particular video I will always. It always be burned in my brain like by how insane it really was and how it it. Yeah we have to. I mean you can't even go back now. They actually closed that whole thing like it's too dangerous now. There was an earthquake and somebody got super injured in like they you know. They breathed in the fumes. And so she can't do it anymore and so yeah that that particular quest was something that somebody that we captured specifically for us that We'll we'll never see on six. Yeah that's well that's proof that I mean you will go the extra mile in this case you know the extra around the world to get there and produce this amazing content. I'm curious you know you are somebody who has achieved a ton of success in in in the digital in the social media world as far as gaining followers and having stuff go you know quote unquote viral and and and giving you career opportunities that way as well from your perspective. What do you think it is that makes your videos so fascinating in so enjoyable for so many people so this is gonna sound so like when I say it's like it's like every moment in a movie where someone with the audience goes. Well does like we all news. Yeah exactly and I forget who told me this but it made so much sense when I said it out loud I was like like. It's so basically fundamentally like no crab does But summer up in. It's just a one liner and this this this really applies for Within all Kinda go more into like youtube because youtube a little bit more of a dynamic game because it's been around a lot longer but for tick tock the absolute fastest way to success in again like pushing aside all this like algorithm. You gotta you gotTa Hashtag F Wipe e you know. It's gotta be at seven o'clock exactly in the videos Not Not all the crap. Now you can be the shoddiest video. Can Be horrible can be horribly film. That can be Hashtag incorrectly. Everything as long as you're providing something that is a visual that the audience is seeing something in experiencing something that they have never experienced or seen before it is as simple as creating something that no one else has ever seen before and I know. That sounds crazy. And you're like well Duh Dude Duh I. I really liked that though. That's that's an incredible way too dumb in your case. Smart it down. But it's it's a really good way to put you hear so often of everyb- and I try to do this as much as possible is be different. You know. I'm trying to be different as possible from any other podcasts. Especially any other business podcast and so many creators out there are like anything you can do to stand out or or Zig when everyone else is zagging could bode well for you. You kinda just put it that way to the extreme of try to create something that is not even on the platform that nobody's even concede to before that's amazing. Yes yes because the more things that you can introduce hoopla forgot to tick tock for example there is an. I love for for many reasons but it's a new generation so like majority generation Z. You gotta think man like wow a lot of these. People have not seen the same things that millennials or genetic sustain who've experienced. Tv reality transitioned over to Youtube. So like you really literally reintroduced things to this platform that may have been like super crazy viral on youtube but just are not available or have not been seen on tectonics in so a lot of times. I will search through the APP and just see okay like what hasn't been done. Where have we not seen that before? Okay while I'll be the first ones introduce it and I'll put that video out there and and get a million news like or more like a perfect example is like our second. Last video is saying that I renamed the Anti Greedy Goblet. And it's this thing's glass blowing world that people have seen for hundreds of years. I mean this thing has been out forever. It's basically a goblet that has a tube in it. And what happens is if you fill the water line to high beyond the loop of the tube it basically over fills in it creates essentially hyphen in hyphen creates a vacuum in the vacuum. Sucks out all the water in the cup. In kind of like distributed down below where the neck is of the cup in like literally again like people have been glassblowing for thousands of hundreds of years at least documented maybe thousands last month but the artem glass and so this has been around forever but we were the first ones to ever put it on tech and so for that reason it got four million views because again like no one had ever seen a a look. It's magic mind-blowing that this thing exists or does what it does in the school and his well everything you put out. There just looks really really cool so I think another way to look at it is just why he produces cool shit. Yeah I appreciate that. I will say my defense that defense. But you're the defense of the the venture I'm GonNa Defend. My Soul. Tips is that there does become this. There is a timeframe where you become so big on a platform that you do. Have you do have hosting advantage meaning? Someone else may have posted the that Glass Cup somewhere the platform before I however they they're channel is so small and that they're barrier for entry to go viral is so small and that their reach is so small that they now have a harder time of actually reaching sort of that precipice for something For them to gain followers in so again that is the advantage of being an early adopter it in and you lay the framework before. No one else. Can you literally do suck up all the real estate? No one else can go anywhere. Yeah and I think it's multiplied the more kind of unique or obscure the categories like as you were saying you know tick Tock and previously as was called as it was musically. Everybody's thinking music lip synching there so something like sciences. Like what they think. Most people in the science were older. Our doctors our chemists would be like all. This clearly isn't for me. The you know we even had a previous guests on Dr Dergham who was featured in Gary Gary. V's book crushing it. An she got in early on musically now to talk as well and she's used it as a way to market her dental practice to the point that you know her kids friends in a bunch of kids. They're like I want to go to her. She's a cool dentist so it's it takes people like you in her. That are thinking outside the box to really make an impact on these platforms. Yeah there's a guy named the bench as well I met him down at tick. Tock playlists and Very similar story and yet I mean he makes like so much of his money now is coming in from referrals from Tick Tock which I find just awesome like really milking it and take an. It's a marketing tool form. Oh so what I was GonNa say just to sum it up For for Youtube though it is it is a bit of a different ball game and the reason that Youtube is is a bit of a different ballgame because you can be super unique and you can put something out there but because youtube has so much content. There's so many things out there. It's the analogy is going to a thrift shop. It's like there is good stuff there but you just don't know where it is in so if you were to put a dull Gabbana's suit somewhere in the thrift shop. That's awesome you know there's value there but where the hell is it and so that's that's kind of. That's the problem for Youtube. Is that that market is oh saturated that There's not a lot of room for for new budding. Success could tick tock and it's a hell of an analogy Shadow D and G so let's switch gears a little bit. Let's get into the mind of nickel pedia. The minded pedia and this is a segment on inspiration and creativity. So how you stay creative and inspired. So there's a there's a coup- I mean you're obviously a very very creative person in the video. Put out or some of the most creative out there. So kind of the first arm of creativity here and I'm going to trademark that that were raised there is. How do you come up with the ideas for your videos? That is a great question. And the answer is you really. I mean it's like everyone has sort of a different path for creativity center for what we have found that to be the best way to come up with something creative and then really sort of like follow through is that usually meets a couple of criterias one does it fit within my realm of content. Like you know I have a lot of really cool fun ideas and stuff. I don't WanNa do. I really want to explore a real estate in flipping houses in hype. How you put up dry on Iraq. That's probably not a good video for my science channel. I mean we could. We could probably find a way to do it but it would be a stretch so we we want to make sure that the concepts in India with living within the realm of that universe. Another thing that that happens. A lot of the time is in. It's just something that I do religiously because it is impossible to force creativity. You can't sit in a room and be like all right. I'M GONNA come up with the best ten ideas right here right now. I keep on my phone. A little like area in the note section because of an iphone and so on the iphone. There's this does not yellow shouted APP if it's considering up exactly I don't think you can delete it but you know exactly I just titled Things in there so one of them is called. Why T- Youtube t t took in I G I G I is in so I jumped down the concepts as they hit me. Even if they're not flushed out at all whatsoever you know just like you know. This'll be this'll be a super great idea in a where we go but it would be super cool to do that. It's all throw them down in there. And then what will typically happen is is that will beginning to the end of a production cycle meaning like we have four or five videos out that were either branded content pieces. Were really good. Topical tiny in the kind of nailed them all. And then I'll just go. I'll start sifting through these ideas. It came up with months ago and I'll find Oh hail. Oh that's a good one. How how could I work that one back out? And then we'll just develop it and the idea to which is like you got to be really specific about development that The cool thing about tick tock in Youtube is is it. The only thing that you're out by doing some of these ideas unless you know the chemicals costs a lot of money or your engineering. Something is the fact that it's your time to do it. So it's like no harm no foul. It's not like you like you know. Created a video and you imploded your Youtube Channel. The Algorithm actually works for you. So it it says. Hey look your followers weren't into this so we stop shopping around them. So they didn't unsubscribe from you and that's basically why some videos get views and others doubts and so if it for whatever reason was a success in that particular day than all the viewers want to see it and they liked it than the algorithm will continue shopping around. And you're you're following. We'll go up and so in a way like I feel like the platforms are really really really easy on creators because it kind of lets you just do whatever you want and then the algorithm protects you from destroying what you've built holy cow. You're clearly in the in the weeds of knowing how the algorithm works is well and so. I'm glad that notes APP is getting a lot of use. I find a I I I do use that as well. Just because it's a little in the palm of your hand it so easy when you think of something just to jot it down there and come back later. This is something that I've done ever since I've been in college too there and this is this is scientist is actually scientifically proven that there are certain times of days in there are certain areas that your brain becomes more creative and people say this all the time when you're in the shower you're more creative some so forth and a lot of studies have been have shown that you're creative win your fist your body. Your physicality is relaxed. And your sub conscious can begin to take over and that usually happens when you're driving. You're doing something you're comfortable and your focus on you know obviously driving but your subconscious running really quickly or you're just about to fall. Asleep is another really great time to write down all your money. Don't be lazy and get out of bed. Some of the best ideas. I've always said we'll I'll write that down in the morning in you totally. Forget in so jump Outta bed. Scroll down doesn't matter. It's worth not getting that extra five seconds asleep. Yeah when you pop out of the shower right down in. So that's that's a science based answer for when you're most likely to come up with your creative ideas. I love it there. We have this really cool. I mean you hear shower thoughts so I guess these are shower. Thoughts driving thoughts almost falling asleep thoughts and it is so true I think it's so important to be cognizant in that moment of Hey. I really need to write this down right. Need to record this somehow because you will forget it. After a full night's sleep I've heard stories of musicians. Classic Rock Guitarist I forget who it was specifically. But there'd be guitars that are about to go to bed and they just have this rift in their head and they get out of bed in that moment and play that riff on their guitar and record it so they have it right then and there. Because you don't want to lose that and some of those have turned out to be mega hits. The same thing applies for creative ideas. Yeah absolutely you another thing just like scientifically speaking like when your eyes are open and you're going about your normal day you have so much data coming in from the outside world that your brain has the process. It's not doing a really great job. China also be creative at the same time and so it's like your animal trying to stay alive and so it's like processing like danger. Not Danger Hungry water sunlight mitre flight instead. It's just not a great time to be thinking about cool. Tick Tock ideas you know when you're you're comfortable bed it's quiet it's our Keno your comfy. That's a great time for your mind to sort of like create something. That's not there yet. Yeah on the science side so obviously you have a science education in interest in parts of this in many parts of the science world. Is You as you got older? How do you stay so sharp? On how things work from a chemical standpoint and how this is like how do you know that you these experiments that you do? How do you know or at least have a good feeling that these are actually going to work as opposed to just being done after after debt? Yeah awesome question man. Because in the beginning when I was doing my content that was more explanatory content. We are actually working in the space l. a. and we were doing green screen content so like doing explainer. Type Videos wise agreeing. Why is the sky blue that kind of stuff color base question? He basically? I always thought based off of my like me consuming content on Youtube that these people were just geniuses. Every single one of them was a genius. They already know this information. And that's why they're so good at what they do. Well after six years of freezing content. I realized that as a total mess. Basically it's actually reverse engineer type problem you come up with the concept is going to be awesome and then you reverse engineer like you'll learn actually how that process works and then how to modify in order to fit your creative. Never have I come into a creative going. Oh I know how this works and then we're going to change it to be like this. It usually starts man. That would be awesome if this could happen. Okay how in the hell do you make that happen? And then you start to dive a little deeper. I will do this. We do that all right. Well this might not white VIP like now engine the mechanical process in bits and pieces of that discovery. End Up in the video in so what you end up. Seeing in the actual final product is almost like how I learned about that particular demo. And then I'm telling you in the video shit. This is actually how it works because I just I just learned about it a week ago. And so that's what you end up seeing in the video is sort of the excitement and the energy of me wanting to tell you how this works and how we got it to work and then you come off as genius. That's all your master plan basically. Yeah I mean that's how it works. I will say having a I will say this understanding to be able to how to like lead science like I as a biology background being so deep into that field when read science-based literature. I understand what they're saying in. So there's a huge advantage in that category like I understand what those words are referring to him with a mean and the prefixes suffixes and so for that reason it doesn't it doesn't appear to be Chinese to me I I. I understand what it is and so I mean there's an advantage there for sure but again it's all relearning when you gotta really really gotta feared out again like like a total entrepreneur. You gotta gotTA rework it figured out right. Yeah and sometimes you might just challenge yourself in an read it all in Mandarin as well so that's just so let's get to a fan. Favourite segment called the wild business shadow of the week. Business out of the week wild business. I know that's the best thing you've ever heard while business shadow of the week is where we talk about a recent campaign or strategy or tactics that caught her attention and earlier. You mentioned your Buddy David Dobric who you know for anybody that's familiar. He's got a man. I think the latest check. He was over sixteen million youtube subscribers. He's massive. He's a legend in the space. Anyway something he has experimented with with his following or or that is come up in the conversation of how people gain they're following. That caught your attention. You want remind talking about the giveaways and things in that space. Yes so this is something that caught my eye because it's something that I've wanted to do for a long time and so I was always very skeptical of it so I really sort of leaned into how this thing actually works in for the longest time as to think oh man giveaways are just like a cheap way to get people to do something but then the more that I started thinking about it more than started realizing yeah but like in social media cheap way to get people to follow you like you. You tease him for the next video. You tell them like you know. Follow for no good reason. Subscribe because you should whatever. I mean tomatoes in Indonesia with you you know at least at least in giveaways you know the the audience actually has a chance to reduce them so I saw this post from Dover that he was telling people to like this brand's page so he was giving away a tesla any said you know in order to qualify for this giveaway. You need to do these three things you need to like. This brand's instagram page. You need to comment on this post and again all this actually makes sense now that he says it because I realized it's all algorithms they still like comments feed into engaging your post is people are watching to the end of a giveaway to get the full information you know what I mean. They they want to know like how do I actually get the thing you're giving away? And then they follow the instructions. Because it's a really easy lift to follow an account right something on your phone. That's already in your hand for the potential upside of thirty thousand dollar car. And so I'm like you know that's actually a pretty good idea when you consider that some brands would spend a lot more money than that in order just to get. Let's say a couple of hundred thousand views on a video when they get a couple of hundred thousand followers or a million followers. Now I don't know what the Pay David obviously. I'm sure that was happy to but we are looking at the just the the numbers versus the The spend versus what you're getting in return. It's a pretty high output for something like that and so on. That's something that we're going to start experimenting with than I was totally motivated by by seeing the success of You know during following by doing giveaways. It's interesting when you dive into it like that because I think my first impression in a lot of people's first impression when you do give away like that is oh. This is kind of like a spammy tactic to to gain more traction but the way these algorithms work in the way you look at it from a marketing branding side and and and get sponsors involved. That's an incredible opportunity there and obviously becomes you know with the ceiling keeps getting higher and higher. It's somebody like your David who who has a mass such a giant following there. Yeah it is really cool to sort of like look past the like. Oh it's a gimmick in like look more into the the statistical conversions of something like that and how adspend like that is way better than actually doing like an ad by like you would do on facebook you know it's like impressions versus conversions versus how much you would spend to literally get people to follow you. I mean it's it's awesome. Actually it's definitely worth looking into so only a little bit of time left here and Usually wrap up with some of my favorite segments. One called the unusual one called rapid fire. Qa You'd never be able to guess what that is but For you for you. I want to do a bit of a mix a unique mix here so I'm going to combine them into one segment in. This is GonNa be a little challenge for you. This is called unusual science. Fun Facts for this case. So I don't know how many of these you have off the top of your head but For this case it's not really me asking questions however I think it would be awesome for you to share some random random and unusual science. Fun Facts you have an in one to kind of get your get your brain thinking and one that I heard as as I was preparing for this interview from you. Is that when you eat? A jolly rancher. You're actually eating glass. So that's kind of a cool thing I thought about is I've seen glass several times in my life before. So thank you for that one. But what other fun facts do you have in the science world kind of bite size information like that? I'll man that is a great question man? You know what? I'm going to have to ponder on this really quick to answer to revolve your jolly rancher one that is accurate because what makes a glass verses. A solid is a crystalline structure. And it just so happens that jolly ranchers are considering sugar. Glass so like there's no crystalline structure within the sugar. So like there's a bunch of different Molecules that are in no particular shaped jolly rancher. New which is why it's considered glass and so we call last last because it's like it has a silica based stood or that's like the meaning greedy uncomfortable but molecule in it. But that's only because we're used to calling glass but technically glass can be made of any different type of molecule that fits within that realm of not having a crystal structure All right okay. Okay so when people refer to onion breath in garlic breath where they don't realize is. Is that when you bite down on a piece of garlic or a piece of onion that you when you break? Open the cells. A fine mist of the garlic worthy onion goes actually into your lungs and it actually sits inside of the Alveoli like the lungs like this little sacks that basically do like the oxygen blood exchange in so when people say like. Oh my gosh you have onion or garlic breath. Eat this mint the mint go. See your stomach but the odor is actually in your lungs in. So there's no way of actually getting onion or garlic breath out like totally. Get rid of it really. You can only mask the smell by something that's in your your mouth but you're not really getting rid of the smell. Oh wow this is so much deeper than what's in your mouth which is kinda crazy. That's amazing so one thing that I think that I found really interesting is that most people believe that water freezes at thirty degrees tonight because we've always been told that his kids like water freezes you know at well wide wiser called freezing. It's called freezing. Because that's the temperature which water freezes with data is actually not quite true water undisturbed or without woodhall. Nuclear sites will actually go much further down the scale. I believe you can get water somewhere. Close like negative seventy degrees Fahrenheit Something absurd like that before it actually crystalizes on in the reason is because in order for waters actually turn into ice it needs some type of thing for the crystals ation form around in so in the absence of any of those items whether that be another crystal vice or like a piece of dust or anything you'll liquid will become super cool. It will stay as liquid even though it's far under thirty two degrees Fahrenheit. Oh Wow yeah I'd never. I just always assumed. Thirty two like frozen. That's it the whole underworld. They're young. This is one more to that are just talking about ice because one of the videos that have it's called y slippery and this is really interesting one so I for the longest time. People have been trying to figure this out. Why is ice slippery in? Most people have always been taught that like like on ice skating rink. If you apply pressure to ice that then melts the ice in then you are slipping on the water. That is not quite the full story and the reason. That's not quite the full story. As is that if you get ICE COLDER THAN THIRTY DEGREES. Let's say you you've already frozen it right you have. These nuclear sites turns in terms of crystal and you get to like negative forty five degrees at negative forty five degrees. The ice is actually less slippery than it is when it's in the teens in The reason that is is because there's actually Finn and Finn Super Thin molecular thin layer of water in that that sort of sits on top of ice. But it's not really like what we consider like water like you can kind of like slap it all around. It's actually the molecules going back and forth between a water molecule in ice medical meaning. It's one of its free. Floating can move around and the other one is stuck in place in a crystalline structure in the analogy is closer to like when you throw marbles on the floor like how you slip across the marbles that is actually more the case with ice than it being slippery because there's water on top you're actually slipping on the molecules of water over on top of the molecules vice. This is just proving that everything you believe is is not actually quite what you think it is. There's always something else going on especially at the molecular level there so appreciate. It's really cool that you've you dive into and learn why these things happened are or what's actually happening there and I did lie to you. I've won rapid question for you which is really not rapid fire but The I've I've just been wondering about this. What is your dream experiment? Like if there's one thing that you haven't done yet that you think would be like the biggest and best thing I I know you're so big on Let's do bigger or let's go bigger. What what is something that you would really really like to do as kind of like a big scale experiment thing that you haven't done yet. Wow man that's a really good question. Some of those actually in our. It's interesting because some of those are already in the we might be not cool all right. Well good luck with them. Yeah we're already doing some of them Because of our current Kobe sort of crisis some of those things have been put on hold because they require such a group effort but yet there there was one concept that we've been really excited about and that. It's a collaboration which we don't know exactly how we're GONNA do it but we think this would be really interesting to really fun and that is working with the guys down in Australia of that. They're called. It's the Youtube Channel. How ridiculous in they they basically throw stuff off of a like a tower and we thought it would be so cool to figure out how you can get a giant bouncy ball to be in the same like shape of his as a balancing all but like a real bouncy ball to throw off of this tower. 'cause we were curious if it would bouncer if it would break in so smooth love to have the manufacturing process to create like a really like an actual solid bouncy ball size of like one of those like. Bosun balls in throw it off of essentially a dislike skyscraper. Only God. Yeah that sounds like a really fun one all right well. Hopefully I mean who knows. Maybe by the time you're listening to this that will already have happened. And we'll know the answer but at the time reporting that sounds like a really fun project so wishing you the best with that But nick this has been incredible. Thank you so much for sharing everything about your life. You're you're pretty ordinary life. I would say not too much. Excitement going on there But all the amazing things that you've done in an in kind of the creative process behind the fantastic videos that you put out before we go. Where's the best place for people to connect with you in follow you and see all your stuff tick Tock Youtube instagram across the board? It's all nick you haas and I think Ayu H. A. S. Perfect and then last thing here final thoughts it could be a weird sci fun fat and I'm just getting. It could be whatever you want. It could be a quote or align wherever you want. Send US off your man. I just want to tell people that if they can think it then they can do it and it sounds really cheesy but it is the absolute truth. I would've never saw a million years that Coming out of Hilliard Ohio. I would've achieved half the crap that I did. Yeah if you can think it you can do it if you build it. They will come. Thanks exactly I know what you're thinking and yes. I did think that line all by myself. Thank you very much. Thank you nick. For sharing all the cool in creative in just spectacular things. You're up to and they while listeners. For TUNING INTO ANOTHER EPISODE. If you want to hear more wild stories like this one make sure to subscribe to this podcast on your favorite APP and leave us a five star review on Apple podcasts. You can also find us on. Good pods re confined all the PODCASTS. Your friends and family are listening to you. Can also dive into our marketing and business growth resources at hippodrome dot com slash blog and hippodrome dot com slash newsletter. That newsletter is the HIPPO DIGEST. In at your place for wild marketing ideas every single week. And of course come say. Hey on your favorite social media channels at the handles hippo direct and Max branstetter until next time. Let Your Business. Run Wild bring on the bongos.

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Qualy #26 - What is Peter looking to achieve and monitor with his blood glucose monitor?

The Peter Attia Drive

12:36 min | 1 year ago

Qualy #26 - What is Peter looking to achieve and monitor with his blood glucose monitor?

"Procam to the qualities a subscriber exclusive podcast qualities just shorthand slang playing for a qualification round which is something you do prior to the race just a little bit quicker qualities podcast features episodes that are short and we're hoping for less than ten minutes each which highlight the best questions topics tactics etcetera disgust on previous episodes of the drive. We recognize many of you as new listeners to the podcast may not have have a time to go back and listen to every episode. Those of you have already listened may have forgotten so the new episodes of the qualities are going to be released Tuesday through Friday and they're going to be published exclusively in our private subscriber only podcast feed now occasionally. We're going to release quality episodes in the main fee. which is what you're about to hear now if you enjoy these episodes and if you're are interested in hearing more as well as receiving all of the other subscriber exclusive content which is growing by the month you can visit us at? PTA Dot com forward slash subscribe. It's without further delay. I hope you enjoy today's quality. What exactly are you looking to achieve and monitor with Your Blood Glucose monitor near see? GM G six which you another product you probably you love. I love the g six talk about it all day long without receiving advertising advertising dollars to talk about it you know it's funny. The G six along with the oral ring which I've talked a lot about are these and I've worn everywhere -able that there is but they're the only two who've seems sticky enough that I can't stop wearing them like if I a month ago I went to charge my oral ring and I forgot to put back finger. When I went to bed so I slept without and I woke up the next it's morning and realized that inhabit and I didn't have the data? It made any goddamn difference in my life. I was so pissed Har I was like God. How could you forget to put your there's probably a whole separate issue with that but and the same thing with like the continuous glucose monitor I just it's hard for me to imagine I used to not know my glucose in in real time so there are a couple of things from it? The first is it's a great way for me to control my behavior and I know it's tempting to believe I believe that I'm somehow impervious to the forces of bad food but the reality of it is I am not there was a day I think when I had a remarkable L. Resilience and willpower and I do anything eat this donate that exercise like this exercise. I was a robot for so much of my life until three years ago and something just happened in two thousand fifteen. I just fell off the rails and I've never got back on. I simply do do not possess. The intestinal fortitude to be a robot anymore and I could speculate on several of the reasons for that which I don't want to get into but the long in short of it is here I am I am in an environment where like you know yesterday. I was on a plane and they were hanging out shit cookies and Bullshit Shit. I really WANNA cookie. I think the only reason I didn't eat that cookie that was bigger than my head is because I knew I'd have to look at my CGM data after so there is no more powerful behavioral tool for me than my cg because in the end I'm kind of competitive person internally much more competitive internally internally the next generally by the way and I just can't stand to see spikes of glucose it just drives me nuts and so which is not to say. I don't go off the rails. Sometimes I absolutely do we were in Fenway Park. Dude and I had fries now. Luckily I'd fast it all day and worked out so I didn't actually experience a spike of Glucose Glucose from the fries so I got to have the fries without the badness but I was sort of ready for it. I was kind of bracing myself like you might you might get a little testy seeing this thing but that actually actually gets to the second point which is it has allowed me to very eloquently calibrate how to tether activity levels nutrient trian deprivation the consumption of treats and minimize the damage. I don't know that I could drive a race car very well without seeing my rpm tack like if you plugged my ears so that I couldn't actually hear the rev of the engine and you took away my Rpm tack and said Dr. Could I still drive the car yes could. I drive it half as well as I can. Drive it when I know exactly where I'm shifting at every moment where I need to shift no there's simply no way like we just were feedback machines. We need feedback so I'm a huge advocate and really looking forward into the next few years will bring when these things can become a lot more affordable and a lot more accessible and the question is cannot be done without them remaining as medical medical devices so the one I wear now is the DOT com G. Six is a medical device. It's an FDA approved device and it gives you a number that is in this case. It's incredibly accurate. It's probably plus or minus two or three percent specifically for the purpose of someone with diabetes being able to dose their insulin the FDA will very likely likely not allow such a device into consumer market because the concern would be that such a device could be used outside of a prescriptive relationship with the physician to dose insulin so there in lies a whole bunch of issues that would basically the way it would happen today is the FDA would basically have to neuter the device such that the information couldn't be used for treatment purposes which means they either take away the real time nature of it which is what makes it so valuable or give you a bunch of ranges and dilute the accuracy. Those are the two levers with which you could neuter one of these devices deliberately which sounds crazy right like take a backwards step okay. I know you have zippo lighter. Were GonNA start using sticks instead rhythm together and so but all that said you know hopefully you know in an ideal world. The medical device becomes cheap enough that if you want that level of precision fidelity in real time feedback you'll just you you know look doctors write prescriptions for way crazier things than CGM's right. You got Docs out there. Writing Prescriptions for pain meds all day long every hormone under the Sun I. I don't think it's a big stretch to say doc Anita. CGM and I think you might have mentioned this to in terms of what you're looking to achieve and monitor your blood glucose. You might have said that. It's a proxy for your insulin. Maybe you could explain why there isn't a continuous Insulin Monitor alongside your glucose monitor because that would be a start uh-huh yeah I looked into this re a lot in two thousand eleven in two thousand twelve even met with the engineer he's actually I don't know if he's still bill there but at and I remember his name now unfortunately but he was he might have been in America's professor of engineering at UCSD but he was actually the first guy to figure out actually how to do these real time glucose Komo monitors at the point of care device actually took him out to lunch one day to pick his brain on well. Why don't we just do this for insulin and he was like would that be interesting and it was just this funding talk to him? 'cause he's an engineer like well. He why would he know that Enslin would be as interesting as glucose or more interesting and and so we actually dug into this a lot and and basically the the short of it is is if you can't measure the asa using an antibody or enzymatic reaction that very quickly without any washing yields answer. You can't do it at a point of care device. An insulin is pretty hard to measure so it was initially measured using something called Radio Immune. Ask Say I believe today they're usually done with with something called elisas. which are these enzyme linked rattle off? What Elisa stands for but it's it's a it's a chemical reaction where you have to you know put an enzyme on something? Nothing rinse it off but another one on rinse it off. It's can't be done in a moment so Amazon that I don't really see any direct way to measure insulin in real time now I've had discussions with some companies who are interested in using CGM data to impute changes insulin and I think that could be done done but I think it's a lot harder than people realize and you would need a lot of data to do it meaning. You'd have you wouldn't be able to do it off the GM you'd have to do the GM coupled with a a lot of blood draws where you actually could basically build a regression curve off insulin and Glucose to predict for future insulin there in May lie I an answer down the line so absent that a good proxy for having a low level of insulin is going to be a low level of glucose and a low level of glucose variability ability and the GM spits out those reports so you go you know you go into low glucose variability one might I don't know if people can see this but on it inferred that the the ANC might be telling you that the a one C is not telling you anything about the variability but let's talk about anyone seeing a moment but you can see that I can spit spit out at any point in time a ninety day thirty fourteen day or seven day report and that report gives me average glucose and glucose standard deviation. That's the variability so why is that relevant well you could have an average glucose of eighty five ninety five whatever with the standard deviation of ten which is very low variability you can have the same glucose level with a standard deviation of thirty and those are very different insulin profiles so you WanNa keep you want. You want to keep that balance closer. I've largely originally discounted Hemoglobin A. One C in an absolute sense as a meaningful number. I think it's it's directionally tolerable rable but mostly shit and I know that because now I've used CGM in so many patients with calibration and compared to a one C and you realize is at the a one C is really at the mercy of its most important assumption which red blood cell libs for ninety to one hundred twenty days anything that takes it outside of that range leads to an over or underestimation of the a one C and therefore an over or under estimation of the average glucose and you can with a one C theoretically you can say avenue once the F. Five point four and you can impute what your average glucose levels were theoretical yeah so the way the ANC works is you measure the a one C and you impute the average glucose the way the C. G. M. Workers you measure the average glucose which is actually all that matters but you can impute the a one C my once. He runs very high because I have this condition Asian called Beta Fallacy Mia trait so I have a bunch of I think I talked about this in the podcast on Shit for blood is I have to call me for blood always in a Scottish oh shucks you got shots for blood so my little shite bloods cells live a long long long time they I mean I have no idea but it's clearly longer than a hundred and twenty days so my once he is very very high the lowest I've ever seen in myself as five point six and the highest six point zero basically just on a one C pre diabetic pretty much all the time on CGM AGM. When you take highly-calibrated rigorous you know look my average blood glucose imputes that I would have in a one c between four point five and five that sort of the range that I would live in so that's material difference and again I've seen that difference in both directions with patients using CGM MM-HMM SO my hope is that in ten years maybe that's ambitious I would hope that the hemoglobin a one C can't even be ordered on a lab and everyone just has a CG? 'em You know and it's it's like a trivial little thing that you know. Even if you're getting a life insurance exam you just wear the C. G. M. for two months and the data comes from that as opposed to actually she measuring this nonsensical number. If you enjoyed today's qualley now sit tight for that legal disclaimer. This podcast is for general informational purposes. Only family does not constitute the practice of medicine nursing or other professional healthcare services including the giving of medical advice and note no doctor patient relationship is for the use of this information and the materials linked to the podcast is at the user's own risk. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice diagnosis or treatment users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they have and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions lastly and perhaps most importantly I take conflicts of interest very seriously for all of my disclosures companies. I invest in end or advise.

CGM GM FDA Fenway Park engineer diabetes Har ANC doc Anita Enslin Elisa UCSD Amazon C. G.
There are none that are not blamed | Ajahn Hasapanna

Buddhist Society of Western Australia

09:57 min | 4 months ago

There are none that are not blamed | Ajahn Hasapanna

"Just give a shot down my reflection. This is from Donna Pat to seven, so the Buddha said and they're blamed. Those who asylum they blamed does speak liter. Their blames though speak much so there is no one is not blame. In this were threes. Sometimes no matter what you do is not right. He's always put in the situation that you know when when when you tried to explain you know that you tried to cover hop. If you, keep quiet yet. So whatever you do is. Is remind me of this. The among Xenos among ended Menagerie saw Maung because he was He was He was unsilent, so he didn't speak so then they're the visitors. Is the skipped very upset? Why this man you know why? He didn't talk he not. I tried to talk to him just. Remember last was in Thailand one none. She was silent as she walked out, and of course, some UCSD no, isn't. It tried to talk to, and then she? She by these. The I mean when we say silent. This means that you know with this. What is necessary? You can just tell the person sorry I can't talk to you I'm unsilent, but she meet. The person find that she's route in. That you know so as I and I find some people. They set the unsilent. There are the zoo now. On, solid richer and pass the nutsy then island, isn't it? Cost so much I've actually the in loss. You Pass no sooner then then as a Chilean asylum passing and his. Island, I cannot talk, so they have A. Pass to is. Missing the point, isn't it so? Yeah, we save unsilent. Speak. What is necessary? You know you're not going to chatter, but he actually the top the I'm not talking actually you're writing on the not yet. Packing the mind is talking. Isn't it non stop? This. We suit. You know to to to put in the station that in whatever you do is not right. We companies everyone. Isn't it this we actually we have to learn to let go and accept that we cannot please everyone no matter what to do. So, we can only do our best. But what are the beeper of us? Is this this only their expectation? We can only do what we can. Isn't it? We do our best each time. I can remind me by good coming I do my best. So, I can't do better than Bass. That's all I can do it, but you expect more than me. I can these so I can? This is important new attitude to develop attitude, but beverly do. It wholeheartedly. Whatever results by the people like it or not this beyond our control, but at least we know for our self. that. I have done my best. I'd give it all I. got whatever wherever we do. Be the Novi Focus. You know we give it all the got do it. Wholeheartedly, De will of Eddie. So what is the result is beyond our beyond our control. Even the Buddhists have no hundred percent people like he museum. Even we Buddha. So who have either name? Even Buddha's to be done so that there is someone doesn't Assumpico so? Don't knock hundred percent. Everybody like emus. An so is the same thing we can in economic to our base. I I know we're not ben I teach you know. Keeping. retracing thing started that I didn't expect. The whole off, succeed retain Richardson's well. Like enjoyed that you found to have some done like kidding me. I can't really you know because of you know. some someone someone like an I got upset. You know so I this because I understand that and this is. A live. There's no one. That's not being not not not blamed in this world. No matter what to do so, but it's important that we know for us of. That, we have done our best. We do our best. Wherever do we do it wholeheartedly? So. Because, we cannot control the results. So we just accept whatever you know, whatever results. Because, the things happen according to multiple and condition. We do our, Pat. And then be we just listing happen by itself? Is. Okay, so as saw it. No that I haven't done anything at the enough that they asked us to pay for that being. That intentionally want to Hamsun. Hefei not anything that you know intentionally onto one CASA as the people. Any difficulties. IFFY ASSES, no! But I week camera percent. We wholeheartedly. At, that leads us have to learn to let go. Then to let it be. Not to be in Bader by what how how people look at us now, we we cannot control how. Thing about us. How people look at us, you know. We can control this I understand that so is okay. Whatever you know, whatever we do is not going to be is not going to please everyone, and then we will be always put in the situation that. Whether you say anything you don't say anything is also is also not right. But, of course sometime soon that you know. That whatever you say is not going to have so expect to keep quiet is. So you can pick whatever you, you'd think, the omit his fine, because if I'm tried to explain actually sometimes I find that big. Was the mortgage explain? You get more complicated. Tried to find that you would really messing up. That can be. Ever you want to take. You liked you know I. Just keep quiet because I just can't. Explain say it's important that always go to our own. Integrity. Just to. Be honest to us. So. We know for us that what we have done. and. We know we haven't done anything you know. Causes anyone her intentionally. So we just. have, this non remorse. Keeping please steps is really helped. Support us, you know been keeping precepts. You have these non remorse because you know that. USB restaurant astle. We haven't done anything happening. And as you know how many us have, then we have this non remorse, and then if you could ourself, and this is be arouse Gye, you know of non remorse so I offer this. What my reflection made this teaching feature of you? So now we're GONNA. Share the marriage in English. Whoever that you left to send them? No good wishes, superindent mine ambition down. But a tummy of the intention to come to offer Donna. All your talks and energy had gone into the preparation of the food. Thinking of it, you can bring to. And making effort to come on time. The offering suffer for two days meals. The offering the records of the ministry. Comey deliver according to the protesting, keeping the five precepts, and also elicited respected Buddhist, teaching these past off the mayors of today's Donner. The be very happy. s reflect the goodness of life. Right this moment. The softball I would like to much to Shea. The merits have made. Is Happiness in your heart, if parents your teachers, and those close to you by bringing them the mind and Shinkin well. We also remember what the that deal ones recipes. And France made the remembrance of them and Sharon of Marissa. Damn beer cost, happiness and peace. May toppling and have a favorable rebirth. Can hear and practiced Buddhist teaching. WHAT MATERIALISM EASILY May! Where they're particularly of making good. Come off at the on support in songs Sarah. And maybe sheriff of Mary's with. The that Dylan's had them all the pain knee bon. Also share the massive day less and all beings every way. May Offering Sutton Marissa, Davis to all beings everywhere be a cost for business and peace. Be The day was able to protect to put Asana. made their look with loving kindness and compassion on office. And left wants near and far. May this offering self? Mary's Today was in beings everywhere way. Oss had them all the pain nearby.

Donna Pat Buddha UCSD Mary Xenos Thailand Maung Sutton Marissa beverly Asana. Hefei Hamsun Richardson Dylan Bader France Gye De Sharon Eddie
305 - AGU Part V, How To Train Your Science

Science... sort of

1:31:16 hr | 1 year ago

305 - AGU Part V, How To Train Your Science

"There you go. Whereas someone who needed projection us big giving up office. I think you will be. How was? Disco ball huge. Smaller other than the maker meters across. If you go to nanometer the science sort of dot com. You're listening to science sort of. You're listening to episode three hundred and five I'm your host. Ryan enjoy to things that are science things that are sort of science and things that which they were science around the theme of how to train your science. It's the Joe neighb- show. That. Have data Joan ever back. They didn't even need me to do. So they're taking over turning into a morning zoo crew that is your host Ryan speaking, I need to train Muko actually remembered introduce myself, a head of say, yeah. So it's really up to me. Introducing you to which I've done because I'm here with him and Joe fellow and this week, we are featuring the whole episode is an interview that well able to introduce the interview. Yes, while we were at H E U S press members of the press, we got the chance to w w not feeling like two kids who were just playing dress up microphone. From that. Doing their job. We did interviews to kids in one trenchcoat. Yes, we were. We were Vincent reporter, man. I was on top. Lost a coin. The thing for a day. So I had to. His face about. It was the only day I could show face. You got to be on top. I got to wear the fedora with a little note cards stuck it as just no one could see it because it was different coat right now. So we got to do an interview. A few interviews. We read a G mostly Ryan at AG you as press at but the day that I joined Ryan to help interview we got the chance to sit down with a group of students and researchers from scripts Oceana graphic institute, and one of the fun things that kind of caught our attention is that they took the train from San Diego to attend AG you in Washington DC to raise awareness of lowering your carbon footprint for trips say up the long train ride. It is I've looked to taking the train from LA to DC 'cause I've always wanted to do that. But man, it's a long ride. So they said, we'll talk about this interview. But just before we get into what they said from sea to shining Potomac, and they had a hashtag a hash tag, T R. I N G use trains you by numbers. Eight students. Four post docs from scripts ocean, graphic institute three thousand two hundred sixty three point four eight miles sixty eight hours fifty seven stops eighteen books. Twelve plus games eleven states, plus DC, six posters. One disco. Ball was. Yeah. So it was really fun thing. We got to chat to a group of them. And we have them all introduce themselves at the beginning of the interview. So I say we just go to that. And let them take over the show. That's right into we'll break in half way through with drinks. And then we'll come back in at the end for our usual sense. See all. Rather than have tried to introduce all related by going around the table and seventy all say who you are at were all y'all from scripts institution of offi. But if you just give us your name of your status, the general area researcher sites joined by they'll be Wade certain. I'm wasn't UC's. Snarky stuff led into groundwater utter Jonas. The shape of your virus? My name is Adrian dawn. I am a finishing my PHD at scripts as well, I self identify as seismologist, and I use seismic waves to study the structure of the ocean crust, which is the earth under devotions. I'm Darrel very alert. Recently, graduated HD this station of ocean atrophy I study larger quakes with traditional seismic instrumentation also with GPS for the purposes of or quake early-warning and structural hazard. On our Margaret Lindemann. I'm a third year peach student at scripts, and I'm a Chicago refer in kind of want be glaciologist. So I study ice sheet or should interactions in Greenland. The word rouse in your stroked the name, Jordan. Ever natives, Stephen nice land. He's barely able look. Keeps going on all air of attack. So let's talk to you guys about both sides. You can't present. The also how you got here to presented of those around the room actually went originally. And he's also a little bit about the research that you presenting here at age, you I have your after of that you need them for reference. Sometime made significant mission on the outside gets written presentation happened. So was the you have the ups and downs California's central valley from GVS in asking Sar inserts. Yes. So insurance Informetrica sum that up to radar. So basically, it's a radar satellite that you can use multiple passes of and backtrack with public services change displacement during these times and devious like new phone if your positioning, so if you have a position of day, you can also want Termine what the solutions are. So leveraging these two different data sets to try to understand what's happening central valley. So might mytalk is over mailing the Orangeville subsidies features in the central valley as well as the seasonal signal associated with groundwater pumping related to cultural production. Understand your question guys, repeat that Danish. Also incorrectly, though amount of water getting around your agriculture is having an affect on substance, which I don't have a good working initial of students subsidies change in elevating general. Land area retreats. Two ways around water. Side. Yeah. You load wire winter involve. Reading about something is recited as the sinking of the surface of the ground yet, so business center valley in these offer systems, the groundwater is forcing the rock minerals. And when you you reduce the pressure that ordering minerals away from each other. And when there's a decrease in crusher, it's filled up or glocks and visited middle system. Fall of house of cards and pulses, permanent deformation and seeking the ground. So central valley can be awkward of thirty five centimeters a year. Even pretty crazy. When you think about, you know, over the course of a few years, you have a meter of change have some pretty huge impact for infrastructure in phil- highways oil productions of. Certain considerations. Turn on also aqueducts of transport vital water from the woman, California down to southern California. Eraseable modernise steaks. Yes. So we have come this unprecedented. Resolution using source of Julius gives you. It's really nice poorly measurement like every day. But it's really spread out tens of kilometers, you know, miles apart from each other, even in California, where are the the network that we have in the US, but inside you can get up to a hundred meters or finer resolution, so I can see things like individual arms sinking due to their own water practice. So so euro farmyard come a water all trees regularly sinking your truly was coming. Interesting thing about that. I'm on another decent. Harry them working with a group, but is school civil Olsen strategy the in Brazil sandiego, and they were actually looking at these relations between subsidence and cupcakes and also human behavioral switching from year to year. What they found was our what we found is that even though we have this kind of idea had the almonds are super water. Sensitive. They're actually not as bad as some of the other girls because of the enhanced your Gatien packs. So even though it takes more water to grossing Allman up much more efficient ways of Uruguay than interesting says comes out to cow and technology. Yes. Yeah. Although any of you. If you have one of fine as worse worse. You know, for example, for water usage almonds, basically anything that floods the fields. So I think. Various Trump crossers on. It's not my specialty. Tomatoes and things like that next. You made up about them. I know. Well. Nothing you eat a sustainable anymore. So. Two. Can you tell us a little bit out lateral today? The upper the spear surrounded by so the I loved him. But he wanted time like this earth thing we do. Can you say that green English? Yeah. Danish. Well, but yeah, I would like to. But so I thought he the way seismic energy moves the anytime anything happens on the earth, for example, earthquake over example, oceans moved like ties energy is transmitted through the earth seismic waves. And I we use these is these two to study what the actual rocks of the are composed of the structure of the rocks within the end acquit that title. How these properties of rocks change as you go different locations. So I've had two stations that issue this year, the one that you just reference was about trying to image, which means understand the properties of Hawaii. So we're looking at the volcano Hawaii and how deep it begins wear the magma comes from. And I'm also looking at about kaneohe off shore Washington state's there's one of the largest volcanoes in the world is there, but it's it's under the ocean, and it has very regular options and with new Instrum. That have recently been put there by himself through a big project cult ally, which has observatories initiative we have very long record of data. We can look at changes in the very deepest plumbing of the volcano, which has been really interesting because the data we have spans interruption than you can see very large changes in how the magnates transported, and what speed is transported at. So we can bet understand volcanoes that way so armee being lateral. I tend to think of so having you know, the are the cross as being more up and down, but I don't think of in terms of like lateral shifting. So what's the six writes a lateral or you can say geographic? So as you change your position on earth. You know, what is happening beneath you could change. So one of the questions about Hawaii, which is the main project here is is where the magmatic comes from. So we think it comes from very deep in the earth like from potentially the core mental boundary, which is about halfway into our so three thousand kilometers approximately. But we. Don't know that for sure, and it could also come from very shallow in the and it's been very difficult for seismologist to image whereas plumes actually coming from. And so some images, for example that the bloom comes from beneath islands like Maui and Alahu, and then moves over unto the big island, and some people think it begins right under the big island, and it matters because it determines how much material is coming in for example, where the next up will be occurring. And so we're trying to figure out. So when I say lateral heterogeneity is really focusing on how things change as a function of position. And so when you linking, for example, the day island why we take the example Aquino, but he sees immobile wave from begin think of it as on the surface, very definitely have center tippety. And that's Lee trend is the McCain had change when you start looking. Right. So what some preliminary research shows is that it might be connected with some other regions, and we're trying to pick it image. Where exactly the belt is coming from. So is sourced. Very large area is a very narrow to that connects right lower most mantle and this important because we know that the chemistry of these rocks on light is very different from chemistry of other volcanoes and other islands. And so we're trying to figure out how the chemistry can be explained by where the melt is coming from and vice versa. The chemistry can inform us of where to look. I definitely just thought that it was the street plummeted rise even an option, but it could have. Yeah. All that's that's the latest and greatest in both. That complicates trying to understand is moving parts. In the way of trying to get their backgrounds. Nice because things are happening there across moving away. And so creates record that of moves out of the way as though Shen ridge spreads preserves at record different way. Is why we have plume that's home of energy which results magnetism will surface. Do so through mooning rice beats different than the nicely were it's or less place. Joe that might be more of a vertical structure where it can just pop up from wherever source. There's it's government. The melted. Sway service. Is it doesn't have to fight with the young on the lateral part of it. I'll say like I mentioned the male become underlaw over something. So as a plate is moving over the hotspot, it's potentially dragging the top of the plume with it to the west. And so we're trying to figure out how it's Malcolm up a move over and come back, or is it sort of one large chamber at its source from or there is a small very vocal minority of scientists. Some good reason that do not think plume of Serie at all. So from understand of whole earth convection in the mantle is not strictly required that there'd be plumes. So it would be to have a pool would be in some senses unexpected. So some some researchers try to explain everything you can see why with just differences in Melton, the very top of the sphere, which uppermost fifty kilometers of the of the and so what we're trying to do is definitively image whether or not the plumes, they're using seismic. Davis on exciting listening like raising audio waves sensually or size. Equate. So how's that translate into into? Right. So that's that's question. So we we know that waves move in different speeds are depending on what the material is. And so what we're measuring is essentially differences in travel times of arrives. Besides MC wave arrives, fashion, you expect that means has been the vaster typically more dense and around Glaive what we often afford is slower than expected because something is maybe you would into it this or not. But if it moves through a hot material it moves slower, and if it moves through there's magma in the material 'cause it's fluid that moves slower as well. So we're looking for any any called signatures of Allah trivial or melted material which would be defined by the energy arriving slower than you'd expect. And that would be as it travels from anywhere on the earth to our instruments around the light it would pass through them until until he slow down by it. And that's how we essentially map all of spaces where. Signal. Exactly, exactly. And if that corresponds with a, you know, a tube underneath Hawaii than we could claim that we you know with a hundred percent confidence. Not only that. But that we have image some sort of plume. And if there's if it doesn't seem as anything that we say Kay. Maybe it's not. Loan to say in terms of listening to your like Jackson. Listen to his date on he's male top make an audio file on some of. I could yet excite. It's not really with the PLO. But it is to do with on obese you often record other signals, they expect succeed me ocean. Bottom seismometers. So these are the instruments we use their place in the bottom of the ocean. Sometimes divas six thousand meters more so around belie the oceans, very deep. So we put them down there. And you often even though we're looking for equipped those you can pick up signals, for example, here lots and lots of whale calls. And so we've compressed in altered the files a little bit. But then you can hear the whales singing instruments, and it's really speaking of sensors. A multi censored actual has honoring approach at the UC's ADA goes Geisel as Geisel wipers Geisel after Geisel Dr Seuss, so it's a yeah. So I named after him. He has a San Diego connection you do. Right. Your abstract in in verse. To say, I did start my presentation in Susan inverse, and I I only got a few stanzas in. And then decided maybe that wasn't the professional. Swing right around now. Anyway, lots of like us to get stay while working with that. Maybe we can come back to this later instead. So I got through about half of my creation in soussan verse. And then decided against it. I'm looking for jobs here, and I didn't. Yeah. So one good way to stand out. It's true. I might regret it, but instead refocused our efforts in Rhode Suzanne style poem about our train trip. Instead. Although we can come back to that later. Yes. So this abstract that I'm presenting here is actually kind of a departure from the majority of my PHD research, but we're doing a collaboration with a group of engineers at UC San Diego and trying to figure out how we can devise it data driven approach to structural hazard monitoring for campus buildings because university is of course, responsible for student safety in its buildings and the way that they check for a building stability now is visual inspections. So it could be different person every time who goes out and does these inspections. And so we figured we have a lot of tools that we use to detect changes in your environment and engineers have alleged that they use for changes in the built environment. So we're combining those two of produce both continuous monitoring of this library. And also, we're not conducting yearly repeat surveys with of variety of different instrument types and merging them together into forming a digital surrogate of the building that then we can compare every year when we go back into a reserve. And especially if there's been a major event whether vendor of major earthquake we can compare digital surrogate sort of before and after picture of what the building looks like and see if there have been any major changes. So fortunately or unfortunately, since we started this monitoring not quite two years ago. There haven't been any major earthquakes. So we have a big continuous record now of almost two years, and to repeat surveys that show basically, a healthy building structure of which is great and one of the next steps is sort of to impose threshold so that we can detect anything different and unexpected is going on at the buildings. We can. Agenda that someone needs to get out there and see what's happened room were Josh working together common or. I don't know. I wouldn't have myself as a geologist geologist. I guess. Which earned scientists shore? But basically, the stems from the fact that the majority of my work is first Quaker Lee warning with GPS and GPS ends up being just a great tool for looking for change as west talked about earlier. So we've installed some GPS equipment and some general seismic sensors accelerometers on the building and at certain of art continuous records. So it's actually quite common in my group that when different groups engineering department are working on building monitoring Alaska's. Hey, can you come instrument are building with some GPS or some seismic instrumentation? So we can see what happens when we subjected to these crazy, motions, there's a enormous shake table at UCSD so earthquake simulator. I believe unless this is changed. It's the largest outdoor chic- table in the world, which means that you can build these really tall wholesale buildings on. I heard on the giants. After. There would be cool by so basically three site bring it up is because in the interim we haven't had any events at the library. Now, we're sort of piggybacking on whatever tests are happening at the shake table because they'll build something we can put the same instrumentation that we have on library on those buildings on the table. And then they'll subject it to a big magnets effort quake, and which is really cool to watch. And he to flush this building shakes. I'm not sure what the ground dimensions are. But we did it. So moore's. I have no conceptual. This looks like on top of that. Can look it up. They have a website. So normally, oh, absolutely. I it's bigger than this room. Yeah. Yes. But then it has no ceiling, which is the reason that it's one of the best in the world. They have bigger ones in terms of the footprint in other places, but we can build this tall z want. So. Four store buildings. We built a six story building there two years ago along hole size both. Yeah, normal. I think they've built right before I arrived. They built a seven story building today, but they build they they don't have a huge footprint Bundy build tall. And they'll put you know. Pots of geared things in them. The last one I worked on very similarly they had this whole separate project in we came in instrumented, the building to help them understand how it was moving, but they had water tanks inside and big flat screen TV's. And you know, I can't speak to what the purpose of that was by more. Waters. That's part of building react to these shaking forces for sure. Yeah. While the water tanks. They head. I think tied into the walls in different ways on each stories. They were trying to figure out how best to hold them. But yeah, this is work by tar Hutchinson's group at UCSD. Views of the early on your whatever the lake tons of tons of each. They also set that fielding on fire. He was very cool. Awhile. In between. So they did tests. They set a couple of the second in the story on fire. And then after the fire was put out get again, walk all. Cast light. There is always. I'm about shopping me out the footprint of the shake table is seven point six meters by twelve point two years. Now, I understand what you mean. When you say has those feelings to build up OSA Alvis early that theory makes it easy to scale if you know, how something called aids scale vertically than having to live in hell, you can make trying to guess with his. Yeah. True thing in terms of dimensions, more useful to have something Tully. Yes. The day, but it can be so right? I'm not a structural engineer. So a sort of take a step back from all of the building portions of it. The need collaboration future where you can't cut. Those of the year the background the cancel out like they could make the examples you could stay on earth quake and do perfectly. A gyroscope are you? How's the best way to keep people safe is just put it on cable avid Kissel? You're awesome about aquarium design. You know, all these water tanks. You putting in there? So what the fish prefers poster shake? Thought. Ask stronger shaking do air all based on real earthquakes, real recordings that they have. So will do reportings from the Loma Prieta earthquake. Or denali? To cover. In case you missed it. So fun. I was going to send you skipped zoo. In case you missed come over here. Spill your house will set the top law fire. You try to. Escape. So the people can painting in get to a peak acceleration of four point two Gs but that's empty without any weight on it. So. Yeah. A little bit about ocean warming drives increased mass loss at seventy nine north glacier northeast, Greenland hockey's glacier. Way. It's just the word seventy nine in Danish. Really? Sunday nights. Okay. Seeing. It took me a long time to a lot of Danish people walking me through it very slowly to get their interestingly, similar strings and names of geographical, Asians, very uncreative, very relates of things named after other things that are relevant in the area, for example, famous Qena ten. Is named for region. Areas of the name is really long, but inches means that out in wittingly should right by the island. It is fair for lay very consistent across the entire geography Lisin which face you end up with a lot of things named civil and there's a lot of mountains solving systems, look like churches because lay she aided in Canada. This Sunday shark officers a lot of occasions on as landed map are called give. Which church? So how it helpful? You say, oh, it's the volcano. That's next to the ocean by laser. Oh, yeah. Okay. The ocean. You let for volcano with a glacier. I just kind of soon there's hundreds of those. Doc. Who? Right. You agreement. Saying how reading let's talk about how like pleasure is landed ocean person perfect. Yeah. So glaciers are set formed on land and it flows under its own weight. And so basically all these big ice sheets for in the middle of a continent like Antarctica or Greenland to big island, and they flow pretty slowly out towards the ocean. But there are certain areas where it starts flow faster and it gets channelize into spots like seventy nine north glacier. And so the glacier part is sort of where that ice flow from the middle of the ice sheet meets the ocean. And then because the ocean there is pretty cold. Instead of immediately melting or breaking off a lot of the ice just starts to flow on top of the ocean. I called it a nice tongue. It's shelf. Yeah. It's a narrow it's long narrow so tongue seems more appropriate for that specific spot. So one of the reasons it's really interesting is because it is this long narrow but quite thick ice. That's confined fewer to the tall mountains on both sides, and where the ice tongue is in contact with the sides of the fury. It kind of hold back all of the ice. That's trying to flow in behind it in so seventy nine north is sort of draining very large area of the ice sheet. But we think that that ice tongue is at seventy kilometers longs. Pretty big it has the ability to probably hold back some of the ice that would be it would be melting faster, otherwise, so we're really interested to know how much this floating ice tongue is thinning and how whether the thinning is enough to let the ice behind it start to flow faster, or even within so much that it breaks up entirely in the future. We think that that could have consequences for how fast ISIS. Flowing in. Then how much it's contributing the sea level rise and Greenland is contributing currently much more of sea level rise in Antarctica. It has less ice. So in the long run both ice sheets were to melt entirely, which is not just around the corner. But in the long run into Arctic has the potential to contribute more, I'm but because Greenland's closer to the equator, it's it's going faster right now. It's contributing more. So repre- interested to know how the ocean might play a role in those processes. Circulation that is going to be affected by a bunch of ice from Greenland getting dumped into it, and like changed how the ocean currents flow around sphere. Where people live in we tried grow up. Yes. That's why I say I said he isos interaction because there really are affected going both directions. The ocean warming can cause the ice faster the ice melt in can then fresh in the ocean. And that could have big locations for the circulation casing. Work on the issue. I yeah, I've into Greenland three times never to seventy nine north, but I've been in three other places and most recently in southeast Greenland, we were studying some icebergs there. So we got to do it was really funny Cruz where we took this relatively small boat out in the fjord, and we would find a nice looking iceberg. Some of our collaborators would put a GPS on there. So they kind of could work with some of you guys on that. And then we would just drive our shift around it in a circle for hours just trying to get as many measurements. As we could of shape of the iceberg in the ocean properties around it. So. We did a number of different icebergs. Biggest one was about seven hundred meters long on one side. So it's like seven football fields kind of stack next to each other. And I don't think we actually made it around that one more than once by at some point. We were we just had to call it quits because it was taking too long, and it was too foggy. But yeah. So some of these things are like huge buildings and other ones are much smaller into that's why we wanted to look it as many of them as possible because we think they might have different interactions with the ocean, depending on how deep they are why they are. Play when it's just nice versus glacier with an ice tongue coming out and Greenland used to have a lot more these ice tons. But right now, they're only three big ice tons left. And so that's why we're so interested in studying some of the night north there's another glacier immediately to the south that had a nice time until about five years ago. And then the whole thing just disintegrated quite quickly over the course of just a few years until we think the ocean probably played a role in it. And this is our opportunity to measure what's happening in the ocean underneath this ice tongue before it goes on. And just. We're measuring the temperature in the salinity and the current so we're sort of trying to get an idea of. What we saw during the year of measurements. That we have is that the fewer got significantly warmer in not drew the melting that I talked about in my presentation into what we're hoping to get an idea of which as that warm water coming from if it has similar properties to water that we find in other places that can give us an idea of where we need to look to see what may be coming down the down the pike for that him that those like, maybe not good news. I it might. It's probably not good news. I think I my my record right now. My time series is too short to say one hundred percent that the warming that we saw during that time is going to continue. But it was a very dramatic more. Megan just under nine months. It was enough to drive a significant increase in the melt rate of that particular leisure. So it wasn't great news. But we're hoping to get some more measurements. Because we need a longer records to be able to save for sure whether that something that is sustained or whether it was just a one year kind of phenomenon. Yeah. But certainly over that time period at caused much higher melting. Clear whether or not your story is climate change for but you guys are part of climate change story because you all cited the dick train to us. So. Joe how do you like that was pretty cool? Yeah. I thought it was that earthquake table. I won't arrive on those you really test out your shock absorbers on your car with one of those Joe. Yeah. Put me on a mountain bike on that feel like if there was an earthquake carb you pretty solid place to be didn't work well for Lois lane. And the first superman movie did not I haven't seen it. Yeah. Lex Luthor plan is to knock he buys a bunch of real estate in Nevada and tries to knock California into the sea with the big one. Oh, okay. And that way he'll have be Trump property. Gotcha. Gotcha. In the movie versions, excluding the Jesse Eisenberg one in the movie versions. Most of lex Luther plans are just real estate's games. It's all face. Batman movie superman superman because for reef say, yeah, it's it's it's almost as if evil billionaires are also real estate developers. I'm just out. Weird trend in the pop culture consciousness that that if you're a billionaire real estate developer, you're probably also evil or have the aptitude for evil evil thinking schemes and to have the resources to be yes. But Joe, I don't know if Lois lane as intrepid reporter as she is what have an appropriate earthquake survivor kit in her car, which I'm sure you do yet prepared Californian. Yes. And once in that preparedness kit drinks, well, if you have drinks in your preparedness kit, I guess we're gonna talk about what we're drinking. So everybody knows how to get their kit raise. So we'll we'll do that on segment. What are you drinking coming up next? Well, you can lead a water. But can you make them drink? I dunno. Let's find out because it wouldn't be an episode of say sort of we didn't talk about what we are drinking. Joe what do you got for us this tire? So this time around I have another drink from my local pokey store or pokey restaurant. How is the pokey? You talked about the drinks. Have you told us about the fish? The pokey is actually quite good. The that we've gotten a sudden surge of poke restaurants restaurant trend it's too hot fast. Casual. And I am couple. So we've had a few a few pop up in the tuna. How do you? What's your? I do so white rice salmon tuna crab salad at Amami Masako scallions is Musaga those eggs one of the. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then dried seaweed sesame seeds, and then a garlic Ponza, which is a really spicy sauce, and then some more spicy Saracho based sauce at the end lighted up. It's quite what do you wash? Dallas today. I'm washing it down with another mystery Japanese beverage this time, it is an who may juice drink set the Plum, yet looks like plumps little green bums wasn't mabuchi there early spice sour. That's by a sour Plum. Maybe let's let's find out. Okay. I I will open it. I mean, could you gonna be able to tell just taste of its Plum, I'll be able to tasted sow I don't know that I could tell if it was Plum just by. I don't know that I would know in a blind taste. I don't think I could pick Plum out of a lineup. I gave me his plump itself. A date at apricot L, three others female, friend. Are they I don't know. This is pretty it's pretty apricot. Getting I got if it's in a soda. Yeah. I mean, like apricot Plum, that's just tell I don't think there's that much flavor. Variation in the stone fruits there at Senate. I don't go along with that interesting. But it's good. It's not as tart as the the Yuzu drink. I had on episode three a one it's a little bit sweeter. But it it's a it's good. Yeah. We may issue. It's confusing. It's it's a non alcoholic drink. But there are multiple percentages on here. There's one hundred percent there's a ten percent. And there's zero percent one of those zero percent alcohol. I don't know what the hundred percent isn't ten percent is better. Hope it's hundred percent alcohol end of the show. Yeah. No. It's definitely not a hundred out gall. It's definitely zero percent. That would actually has some English to it everything else's Japanese characters. I think it's the sour kind when it's that fruit. But it's like salt Kurd like essentially, the sourness somebody, right? Somebody will write in. Then if you're still listening to the show, we know you will join us and talk to us anymore, but come back, then right? Right. We miss champion. You're better than I am. It's possible that there's the thing I'll have recorded with Ben at all come out before this people might be like, why are they still arguing doesn't come on the show, but timelines people this is not necessarily being recorded in sequence it. Yeah. It's like a movie record it when people are available. That's an excellent. Well, Ghana Hollywood on us. Do live out here. I'm basically in the industry. Joe? I bet you're wondering what we're drinking. I sure am Ryan. Hey, ryan. What are you guys drinking until you about Joe 'cause you know, we've been at this for a while, you might even say that we are have a partnership, and that's what I are drinking is the partnership a collaboration series, beer, and has two words. Yes, we are partner ship from heavy seas. Which was a Maryland-based Baltimore based Berea that has all pirate theme stuff. The Patrick has had on the show before the main beer company, which is brewery from the state of Maine. The main burry in me. Actually true. It's like a picture of ship, and it's labeled partner, it is actually a picture of. I don't think I could call it a handshake. But it's a hook handshake hook hand hoc shake that order bashing. Yeah. Which is the style that I really like, I don't know able never asked you how you feel. I have not had many so tend to be a very multi. Yeah. I mean, I'm generally a fan of all beer styles. Some more than others. But. Let's try this. He as in general, especially if they're not traditional. Karmally? But is it makes me think more of a Brown? Ill found bossom grapefruit. Lemon hop aroma sale. Top a burnished Mult back bowed una ship. Oh, I also contribute to the clean water fund celebrates a connection between clean water. Great beer without clean water. There is no beer, and they support programs to clean the water. Hey, one half of the people made the spirits heavy seas. They're probably interested in what the script social graphic institute has say absolute, let's get back to one hundred with them. And find out what they have to say about being from scripts oceanographic institute. Scripts on a train. San Diego using the train. I think Adrian is sort of I original. Yes, we we've taken out for several years and every year the group was taken it has grown a little bit and started off as pretty much for fun. So it's a couple of day trip. There's no while the Amtrak probably degree. And it's as relaxing trip, and you see beautiful parts of the country that you might otherwise state but upon reflection and the more people joint it became clear that was also beneficial for the environment to take the train more. And so with those two benefits it, you know, people enjoy both the relaxation of it as compared to air travel, and if you supercar that can be comfortable and also the chance to see the country and there's a green aspects. So it's a win win win as long as you have several days to devote to it. Some staff that you tweeted also. Before we wrap up here. The stats. How many students lose? Those dogs all from scripts Lucian graphic is to three thousand two hundred sixty three point eight miles one way. Sixteen hours fifty seven stops eighteen bucks, plus games, eleven states, plus disease, six posters discussable. I am while you out disco ball around and just a small player vacation one of the post docs is a former scripts student can be picked up in LA. The first amendment. It was thirteen states. I got that information as I was counting my twelve and thirteen students. Stay to go through all. All to DC stay that will be the truth out while. Yes. So do you have a sense of like how much carbon you save by applying? Or is that it depends on the trip and depends on where you're going. But for example, we do have a better idea about just going to San Francisco. Our in one twelve people take the train, for example. We think it's about thirds. There's a lot of different factors play embarrass accidental more research or mega attacked about this a lot. There's definitely a point of diminishing return when your trip gets very long, and because we came completely across the country. We're sort of reaching the point of diminishing return. So really our goal with publicizing. This trip was to try to encourage people that if we can do it for three nights in four days that if they can do it for a short trip. That's just you know, one overnight, and then you don't need to this time. You can do it after work and be there the next day because in. Those shorter scenarios it's significant savings. Unfortunately, the most climate-friendly option we've been to not come. But I mean, that's sort of what I have ended up getting a little is that I think especially when you see thirteen states, plus the district of Columbia over a couple of days, you really internalize how far you come. So you think if I get on the on the plane in San Diego, I work for a few hours or take a quick nap and wake up in DC. I think this is great. It's so easy. I can fly cross the country all the time when you really commit to sitting through the whole thing being on the train seeing everything that's in between. Well, this is a big undertaking. I crossed a lot of area and what we found out. I think when we did more research is that no matter how you slice it. It's a really long trip with big carbon footprint. And so a lot of us are from this part of the country. We live in San Diego. And I think that for all of us. It's a sort of a wake up call to think a little bit harder out how we can make your. Trips and find ways to make the most out of each time that we do it. So a lot of us are going back to his family or combining this with other trips over here. And I think that for me taking the train really helped me think about that. In a more intentional thing about recently is even though the amount carbon. You put is very important. And obviously is is often the news the most there are a lot of mental problems. And if you go through the country, you can see from sample changes in land use or just like to me sometimes in some areas. There's a lot of garbage on the ground, and you can see other things about agriculture. And we need all those things, but there are environmental problems not just carbon emissions and go on seeing them is makes it very clear what they are. What was it? The golf course. The by nice dream and everything else. Instead, they do that. Coming from San Diego. We see all the time. Ends like sleeper car or I've never taken a train trip. That law is nice. Yeah. So it's like it's a pretty travel get your meals to so a by them. Well. I think so well on it gently rocking. It's a lot like being on a research ship. I loved it. I had the best time. And I think partly like Adri missing the beginning of much more relaxing way to travel a lot of ways. All that train up on enjoy it. Then how long were the stops agree to get out and see parts of their? It's not pretty sure that you've got got out for about twenty five minutes in Oba Kirke, and we had a three and a half hour layover. So switching trains in Chicago on Draper six days. Yeah. Entry Bridgen sorry while it's sport for. Fifty yet. But I mean people have asked me all week. How did you stay in that tiny box for that many days? And I think people are imagining lean trouble, and that would be impossible for for me at least for that long. Or people are imagining their normal commuter rail where you sit in one seat her your whole trip, but you know, you get to get up and move around. Do you go from your sleeper car to the dining car or meals to the operation car, which has ordered ceiling windows in his futile to that for a long time. He kind of flies by I mean, I wish it was longer. Absolutely converse few. I think it was Adrian myself and what other student who's now. And she actually was picked up in a a we went to Cisco which is looking eight hour drive or what about our lighters or Leslie in? At our twenty or something, but it's like a sixteen hour train ride. So we just got on early morning amid it by the end of the day. We like absolutely love. It was a wine tasting on like the only Amtrak rail line taste and really factor in finding it's Cisco at candidates. Trey during a parking spot. Yes. The next I'm going to New Orleans had nine people go on that. Which was a forty eight hour total or six forty eight hour turnaround this year, we had people on sixty eight hour. So you've always out you do that. It's fun. We actually able to it's nice to see like our getting more and more interest goes melon who has ever done it with us as decided not to do it the next year. So it's attack. And I always use these two Adrian of my examples when people say, oh, I could never be in there. They're pretty tall. And they make it work not uncomfortable. Because I don't think people look at me and think well, if you can do it I can too. But if they look at in west, they might think they're capable. Sport games catch up on reading books. Our? Harley. Right. Supress comfortable in just the seats of only shorting wanted to our trips cities in the US and two or three times data day every time I get on the train. I'm like, oh, man. I could have so many more things. Knows have high computer with me, I can do work, but that state campus too comfortable to do it just kinda wanna sit reader to is more comfortable than people really expect especially imagine in comparison to make your commute around different. I think my highlights or an this agents idea to do a gift exchange a white elephant gift exchange on the train any where everybody had to buy the present. After the train journey began. And we had a lot of funny random things from Chicago some interesting Amtrak branded items. It was a relief. Funny set of gifts that people came up with. But it was also just really fun to see how much buy in. There was from the group everybody that came was really excited to just, you know, make the most of every part of the trip, and we also brought a gingerbread house to decorate had an advent calendar. Holy neither sugar to kinda thing. And then like the chimney falls over. Should've practiced on the. Perfect. As long as you were tweeting out, your journeys and the hashtag train g you or the train is Coppola's Palladio looks like you actually got some attention problem Amtrak's Amtrak Larry doing. Kind of a free ticket next year. We're looking. Coaster. Brought to you. Literally physically wrong to you, one of the things I thought was really cool was after we started tweeting with the hashtag changing, you other people started using it who were getting on trains to come to you to letting us know that they were taking trains, and those people were taking shorter journeys that probably do have a really good carbon footprint savings, which is great for them. But I think sort of the back and forth that we had on Twitter with some of those people will hopefully encourage others in the community who were watching along with Seiji, you hashtags too. About the idea so much is that people who are, you know, I'm changing Eire's or skeptical science one of the things too is that we constantly jetting around the world talking about research is not critical and fundamentally. Yeah, it is critical. But ideally, I think if you're scientists you would say well by lying around or or that I do hopefully having net Austin act overall like concave. Concave happening. But I really liked that you guys fully undercut actually her money where amount to take the train. Instead, I think just I dunno. It's gutsy away. But I think is really aspirational inspirational to people who do. It's been really encouraging. Also, the response that we thought I mean, I have friends from scripts who said everybody's asked me whether it took the train people. They take the train getting out. They took the train, and I talked with the director of scripts who is saying, I it's it's really great to see these people that are sort of higher ups in the field that are really starting to think about the footprint of these conferences. And what are the things that we need to go to conferences for what are the things that can be on differently? So one thing is that we can all find are most efficient way to travel. We can think about different ways to, you know, have some of the same conversations in the future. But I think just everything that people are doing to show how harder thinking about it in our willingness to change what we do. It's really encouraging, and hopefully it will be noticed by the people who are calling out the perceived Baucus. We're in a really unique position though because we are in academia where we could tell her advisers. Hey, we have to leave Thursday to go to the conference. It's not till next week. So that we can get there via train, and they were sort of on board and supportive, but a lot of people don't have four days to make it to where they need to be in a work environment. It turns out taking the train crossed the country is more expensive than flying across the country. So if it's the best way for the environment. That's great. If you can afford to do it. That's great. But certainly it's difficult to incentivize. If you're not in a position where you can shell out Hugh extra hundred dollars to sit on train before days. Well, right along. But we took the longest possible ride. I mean, if you just going couple hours away you fly and sometimes those flights are expensive or take a train. It's more cheap is more affordable thing, maybe that white shirt. Yeah, you're right. Yup. Pill. You're going to take four days ago between DC in Boston. For example, you good. Yeah. Hopefully, just for people to start thinking a little bit more about what are the alternatives to making that trip at all? Or how can I combine different trips? I need to make across the country into one make it to the set that it's awful. I think Katherine Heyhoe somebody who she's a climate scientists who has really I think compassionate, and inspirational way of talking about this where she says, don't you shouldn't say, I can never see my family again. Like, nobody expects that of anybody. That's not reasonable. But how can you make the fewest number of trips? Get the most out of it every time and show people that you are willing to sort of in your personal life act out what you wanna see from. The change you want to be. Four. So. Could give everyone the resources they need to correct. The online so wartime. Let's say Twitter account linked to everything in the show notes of people. Service, you'll starting website or whatever people have. You can treat me. Ceo, hydrogen Assi. Website. It's probably remember, but I p web UCSD use slash Tilda door or. A D O R A N at UCSD dot into you literally you can find me on Twitter at Dera underscore. Berg underscore two scores to both. I'm similarly really unfortunately hard to pronounce Twitter handle it's match. It's spelled M A H GD. It's like March, but snatch. Stream g you guys starting something of a movement. So hopefully will keep your more about the future. And thank you all for joining us. Thank you. You're talking about. Speaking. Can you can find our Saotome amid Twitter him too? Y'all picture of traveling. The. A lot of different aspects. What we wanted to use change? You look best writing out Mike Purcell favorite saying with a juju. Kind of weird communicators. Creative differences. Sweet. Thank you again to the scripts train g you team for taking the tentative sit down with us and tells about their awesome initiative of reducing their carbon footprint while still getting out to AG. You two percent all of their work on climate and earth related stuff at g you and thanks to them for telling us about their research to and something cool about this interview was because it was put together by the communications people at the scripts ocean graphic institute they actually had a member of their team in the room with us while we were doing the interview. So he actually tweeted out some photos of us while we were interviewing them. So if you wanna see me and Abe in interview over interview trying to look professional you can see that on our Twitter feed at science dot com. And we'll link to that in the show notes for this episode at science dot com. What are they gonna at Joe pretty RAD? Elrod california. Mr. big time would over there dope. The Joe, you know, what I think is hell cool. What's that right feedback from the listeners? Shows totally dope. That's coming up next sick. Rob. To show where we feature feedback from the listeners, you wonderful. You paleo posse out there always be getting in touch with us and patronizing us and patronizing. Sometimes sounds like a bad thing. Not sure why it's the same word for go to business as it is for talking to somebody we have patrons. Because Ryan let me explain it to you deaf and tactic. I guess you understand why it's different. You are you gonna Manson it to me? It's just different. Okay. Get on the show. Thank you. We. Supported in part by the fine folks, who give to us monthly over on patriotic, that's dot com slash science sort of and one of the things you can get when you give the which level is Joe avocados army level or higher the six twenty three cents for avocado. When you go some Mola money, awfully only had them all that money. If we had a mall. Fun me level or higher. One of the things you get is a thesis that confers upon you bachelor of science sort of and our thesis this week is for Lia a or is it a she a Princess of own or trust Royal person. So what are we think? What do we what do we think for trains with the Irving way? What do you think? Joe? You wanna throw a hyperloop in count as a train? Not yet. Let's keep it. Let's keep it grounded in reality for now. Okay. I do like the throw in the train in there. What about something about earthquakes and being more powerful locomotive? Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. That works solely. We had the Richter scale for awhile. We don't use the Richter scale anymore because director went to work for Conan O'Brien. So he couldn't work in geosciences anymore assume that's what happened. So what about Joe would something Hollywood? Yeah. I got a meeting with them tomorrow and ask him about his scale, and why can't use them anymore? The reverse can stand us magnitude for earthquakes pop pop but blunt. If Leila's thesis is proposing a new metric by which to judge the power of earthquakes at it's how many trains get derailed not to rail. But like superman is more powerful locomotive. And like we refer to cars of horsepower. Would if earth only frame power like how many trained power wasn't either. Like a motive new method for quantifying. The the energy of earthquake using trains as metrics Floca metrics, my brain is going to like locomotion of plates. What about what if it's modeling the the magnetic convection cells as as if they were on train tracks who. Taken completely different direction by using the Joe besmirch with buddy director magnetic field to generate to move. Locomotives modeling earth's magmatic convection cells as a MagLev rail system ManWeb train medic. Yeah. Those trains maggots sorta like the plates. Magnetically levitating? I'm confused. What about D derailing? The strike slip. Something about trainings. Yeah. Okay. Derailing the strike slip daughter out of slash nuts. Strike slip motion. What if what tectonic boundary Joe, what's the most powerful type of engine? You think to put in train? I mean, I guess you put a nuclear reactor in there. I'd be exciting. Okay. Action. What if we put two nuclear power trains on opposite sides of the fault and each are tach to the ground, and then they pull so they're derailing their releasing the energy from the strike slip fault. They're so powerful. Because I think you're gonna run into its we're testing Joe, we don't know this this research. Yes. Coming on. Is not worth what what's the train reacting as for my quest on the play. It's my question. Does it work? Nope. Doesn't work. You can't put an airplane on treadmill. Take off. Oh, yeah. Of course, again that one. Yeah. There. What has what was I what are you talking about that? I was thinking of that trains pulling against the ground that they're already on. He makes good point. That's like standing on a piece of plywood and pulling on the piece of plywood and hoping it moves based on some of the way we saw people skiing today, but there's some works. Yes. I think that's a good idea. I like our start derailing the strike slip motion of sanitary is. So if you had an hour of have a question if you had a nuclear power train couldn't brake Joe like very low, friction railing MagLev, it'd be tough. But I assume you could probably not probably not it'd be hard to get a wheel a wheel driven anything to break the sound barrier. So what will be magma nuclear power trade MagLev? Maybe MagLev might do it. How about you could make good you could bag the sound barrier. Yeah. But that's doable. Because the problem with a wheel driven stuff is you can only spend the wheel so fast. But MagLev doesn't have that problem. So what about testing the efficacy of using nuclear powered MagLev trains as high capacity escaped vectors from earthquake-prone regions derailing, the strike slip damage potential of San Andreas. Yeah. We're not using the trains to try to prevent the earthquake is using them. Like, we can fill a lot of people in this train, and we can get it away from the area real fast, healthy Alec less than three seconds. Okay. Testing have tested. All right. For sonic, Magli percentage. Maglev sort of the trip would be from San Diego to DC on supersonic MagLev. Nuclear power train the great ceases testing the efficacy of supersonic Nagla nuclear powered MAG love trains as high capacity evacuation vectors rapid of accusation vector rapid evacuation vector during the big one during yet during mass of earthquakes have your say that during Senator is well, then the colon rights during massive tectonic events because the the MagLev train doesn't get screwed up by tracks. Get all messed up in the earthquake colon derailing, the strike slip of San address railing. The because I like we have to do something with derailing a train, right? Yeah. The strike slip motion motion senators damage strikes damage of senators. Today, read it out. All right. Testing the efficacy of supersonic nuclear power MagLev trains, high capacity rapid evacuation vectors massive tonic events colon derailing. The strikes strikes slip damage of the San Andreas. Drove a dig it submitted for the completion of degree requirements. Yeah. BSO? S S O approved. Right. Abe. You're up next. Awesome. We have our I have an Email from Morgan 'em. It's Morgan Marshall we talking about we're going to let them Morgan. Joe knows work through the ones. I haven't Morgan actually, I know you have once upon a time. I was there. Hey, we have. Hey, guys. Mortgage emailed us. You guys know Morgan more. Hey, Morgan Marshall, Email let me let me tell you what he's got to say. So Morgan emails, and he says the title of his Email is the fault in our films. We hire Morgan two themes for. Yeah. Earthquakes faults. Do they know some of our good films, actually, do I know they actually have faults. But I was also saying some of them are good anyway between the Joe faults. Re I get the JV mill review. Morgan says paleo pals one I want to thank you again for all the hours of discourse until actual and otherwise that you continue to provide for us podcast followers. A few long flights and some exhausting bus writes in eastern Europe, finally cut me up on all the current episodes. Here's looking forward to another year full of learning and levity beat for a long time. Now, I've wanted to have something worth asking. Yes. This time or is one of my favorite tattoo is to swing your your bullet or bullet point. Yes, it is. So says beat longtime now I've wanted to have something worth asking about. But it inevitably ends up like that awkward woman at the end of job interview when they ask. So do you have any questions for us? No, I don't ever the Paul changed on my flight home from Europe yesterday after scrolling Louis entertainment job interview on your humble break. Yes. After scrolling through the entertainment options and says out of flying back to San Francisco. I just couldn't resist temptation to watch San Andreas on the tiny screen in front of me. And while just so many things that wish they were science from wedging rescue helicopter into lock canyon real too. Yeah. I haven't seen this movie. I haven't either. Sounds for five minutes. Oh, wow. Okay. Not too too much of a spoiler. So spoiler alert building tearing in half and falling down into different directions. And really just say just any given moment of that movie. I was more than half expecting a great white shark attack doing this NAMI, it was ridiculous. It was glorious. It was laughable I loved it. This isn't just a nomination for the next science sort of theater. However, we're still waiting. I know the movie got me thinking more seriously about natural disasters west coast. I'll having grown up in Seattle in the shadow of mount rainier with VHS of surviving. The big one on our media shelf of always wondered how big the big one might actually be damage. Could we realistically expect the age of seismic retrofitting, and modern engineering? We could watch twister knowing it would never have into this out of the Rockies, but Dante speak and Senator as hit a little closer to home. What would happen if near Baker bachelor or Shasta went Saint Helen at us coast? I think poss- here for a second. To answer some of these questions. I mean the rest of his. As more questions. So Morgan continues are there any reasonable predictions or models for possible seismic over volcanic events. And what their scope might be. What is the state of our predictive capabilities for such events. These days sounds like a show for Volk on Abe. That's my Twitter handle and then to finish out. He says Roman numeral three, and what am I drinking? Well in light of the San Andreas experience, I've decided to pour one out for San Francisco. So there's a fiancee's of anchor steam and the snow outside, and what's left is in the glass. I hereby race to you pleura. It's called y'all y'all or we all work for that. That's y'all is it how many because it could be all y'all right now. There's just three of us. It's supposed to tros. Now. This thing that thing read the is. So to finish out Morgan says keeping signs in my heart and ever ready to sponsor the timer. Duck. Silence. Just say the word Morgan. All right. So oh, there's a postscript. I did all my Christmas shopping through the Amazon link. Sweet awesome. Thank you. We get a little bit of cut of that. Now from you from Jeff Bezos. Thank you. My apartment straight out of the trick whatever's pocket, it's whatever's in this pocket and check it's more money than we would actually get from the affiliate. That's true. He just doesn't care to even small so. Yeah. So okay. So first question that Morgan asks we go back up here. What kind of damage could we realistically expect in the age of seismic retrofitting, and modern engineering for me? That's a tough one to answer. I less well-versed in the end of things. But in general retrofitting has come a long ways from where it used to be and the short and simple. And so is that it depends. It depends on what their earthquake is with the magnitude where it hits the there lots of factors that we just cannot predict. And so it really comes down to how it all happens. The magnitude and the duration have a big. On it. And I think what we could expect is that modern engineering will reduce the kind of damage that we get. But at the end of the day, we're still just kind of subject to. Chance in what happens with the next two tonic event in the next earthquake by this guy will Durant who says civilization exist by geological consent subject to change without notice. And I was thinking about that sorts of questions because it's like, yeah. I mean, we can build it as best as we can for the biggest one we've ever seen. But there's no guarantee that the next one will still be bigger. That's really what it comes down to the question is what is our ability to model what our -bility to predict both of those like we models best. We can we predict as best we can. But realistically when it comes to seismic events were we can't directly observe what's happening. There is next CD comic about that recently about every aspect of this system. We want to study is blocked by miles of rock. And so there's just it's hard to look at see what's going on. Our building predict is still very limited. And unlike predicting whether or not it's going to rain predictions about geologic seismic events, come with things like if accusations and the potential for a lot of buildings to fall down. And so there was a key. Recently. We're like talion jealous were arrested for MS predicting earthquake thinking that it wasn't gonna be as big as it was. And and then it ended up being quite a disaster because a bigger quake happened and the damage that followed killed a lot of people are Bill to predict it's still very limited. And then when our predictions get taken too seriously or not seriously enough or we just don't get things quite exactly right. The consequences both for the people making the predictions and for the people affected by the area are big. So if it's even are hedging not really trying to like give a definitive answer. It's because it's very complicated in the first place, and then the potential effect of try to predict a very complicated system is also very complicated. So it's multiple levels of complexity at play here. Right. And so one thing that we can do which is never going to get us to. The ideal of being able to predict what's going to happen. But one thing that we can do is look at the past and see of everything that's ever happened in this case, if we're talking about the San Andreas we can look back at every event that has happened along the Senate race system, and we can build a model that tells us based on each of those events meaning each earthquake and the damage that it produced we can build a system a model that kinda gives us an idea of what damage to expect. And that's how we counteract that we can't predict it. We can't tell you. This is going to happen. This time where we're going to be able to tell you know, within ten or twenty minutes the business happening realistically speaking, we might not be able to get there. And again as Ryan mentioned is like this. We have very little visibility into what's happening. Well, not not a lot has changed. Right. The data points. Right. So like the Northridge quake in ninety four that was six point seven in the LA area. And it did a ton of damage, but in the aftermath building codes were revised right? A lot of Bill is where we all the billions that fell down that couldn't survive a six point seven they failed down in the quake. They got rebuilt to code and now they're stronger than they were before. So if you had that same quake again today might not do as much damage. Right. And so what we can expect going back to Morgan's question is that if all of. If everything occurs as we would expect meaning earthquakes in areas, where buildings have been retrofitted are not different than what they've been in the past than we hope that those are th wakes are gonna respond in the way that they were designed to respond and not caused damage that is the best case scenario, right? We can't say that's going to be one hundred percent certainty. But will we know is that it's going to minimize loss of life and loss of property damaged because they've been designed to do that. So even if they fail fifty percent that's already fifty percent better than what it used to be. Right. And so that learner advantage the cost of learning hot. Yes. So that's the big kind of like will never be able to predict, but we expect with all the changes that we've made to be able to save a lot more lives and save property by taking all of these precautions like retrofitting buildings based on what we've learned from previous events. So that's that's a huge major step may. Maybe one of the biggest Depp's that we could take. At the moment. So that kinda goes around the question. But that's because the question the answer to the question is this. We don't know what to expect we can guess right based on what's happened the past so realistically, you know. That's that's the bottom line in modern engineering has come a long way. So you know, hopefully that is the case. But I think we're all pretty sure the modern Engineering's coming to the end of its ideas, you're probably not going to come up with anything cool new for a while. So so close the patent office down. Shut it down say at says the first question the next question was what would happen if Ranier Baker bachelor Shasta Wednesday in Allen is on us. And again best prediction that we got is that well, it's going to be similar to what they've done pass. Which is at the these are questions swim homes was an explosive eruption would all of the ones listed also exposed. They're all part of the same chain of all know. So there similarly created for simple. Yes. And one thing I will get like. Exactly like and these on school more like. Like what? More. Fully going more powerful. Get my mic one thing that I point out because my background is in studying eruptions that are significantly three four orders of magnitude more powerful. This is that we think of Saint Helen's is an explosive eruption, and it is. But it's still very much a mild kind of intermediate eruption on the scale of. If we think Hawaii to Yellowstone Hawaii and Manson Helen's are two orders of magnitude closer to each other than something like even the smallest eruption from Yellowstone. And so it's still relatively minor. But it is controlled by composition in that is controlled by the environment in which these volcanoes are being created. So all part of the cascade range. So they have some similarities share compositions and style of a rupture in from what we can tell the record. And so again going back to the we can tell you what we would expect. If these volcanoes erupted erupted in the exact same way that they have in the past because we have a record of that. But the problem is that that might not be the case in one of the famous things about mounts in Helens is that when interrupted nineteen eighty we had a long record of deposits from previous eruptions of Monson, Allen's in a dead. It's normal. Kaneohe. Where -rupt it, you know, things went up and ash and full Cannock material spread the difference in the nineteen year. Eruption is that it was coupled with an earthquake the stabilize part of the internal structure of mount Saint Helen's because it was already over pressurized with magma. And so instead of erupting normal going on a soda Cam before opening exactly. And so instead of erupting like literally almost literally yet it literally like the shock through it just destabilize the pressure. And so at that point you have Joe you ever put dry suit plastic follow and screw the top on adroit. It's not a great idea. But no, I haven't she'd do it. It's fun. I've done mentos DIKO. Let's see it's been close. So what happened with Saint? Helen's is that at somebody just into the wall. Okay. Did but it's not. We we have not recommended. Sometimes we got of the food shipments. Arrived at the pool used to work at his life. Dry small tough cocktail you might as well throw it at somebody and Jacob was there. We're both lifeguards pool. So sometimes has no hair. It's not like you wouldn't back. It's not like it wasn't a two way street. Right. Right. Right. All right. So it sounds like you've mostly answering questions. You have any final thoughts lasting. I was gonna mention about months in hell is that erupted sideways, which is not something we had observed anywhere else. And so the point of that is that they're still unpredictable something different could happen. And so our best guess is going to be to say, hey, we can't predict it. We can't say ahead of time. What's going to happen? But we can tell you is that if it does a -rupt of when it erupts if it Rupp's in the way that it has in the past here are the options. And so then we can go back to our scenario with her quakes and say, all right. If that happens, here's how we can prepare to minimize loss of property in life. So that's the big picture and simple answer to which is don't know. We might not be ever able to predict but we can prepare. For what we know is potential sweets. Jody for us. I have a tweet from Kate MacDonald on Twitter tweet. So it's on Twitter anyway, Kate wrote us into say apropos nothing I'm going to plug in defensive plant science sort of and titanium physics because I found science podcast immensely helpful for just getting through the day. And those are the ones I listened to most often spells up with it's easy to start feeling like everything is small and few Thailand. Mean-spirited, and it helps to be reminded of how large and interesting the world actually is. So thanks, Kate. Glad we can help you. The see the world is a big interesting place rather than just a bunch of people throwing rocks at each other or or throwing. Dries molotov cocktails. So yes, Kate lovely sentiment. Thank you very much. We appreciate that. I said recently on the show that I think it takes ratio about twenty positive comments to one negative comment to even out my emotional wellbeing. So things like. Things like long way. And I really appreciate it. I will also say that in working with Joe, I have put the entire backlog, technically, speaking up on soundcloud. So if you run out of scientists listen to from the list there, check out speaking pod on soundcloud, and I'm working on getting the other bracket media shows so stereo function and weeks with up on the soundcloud page as well, and they might already be up or in part by the time. This episode comes out so go check out our soundcloud page. I know it's it's like whatever you tweet that goes viral say, hey, checking my page. So we haven't had that happen yet. And then for the listeners who art Kate. Kate is an illustrator, and you can go check out her website at k Mak, Donald art dot com. And I hope because we haven't had a good one in a while. We'll have a new one in a while. I'm gonna I'm gonna put in a request regular Dracula up because I was looking I was looking at Kate's profile photo, really sweet octopus. And I was like oh, man. If she drew this. That's awesome. And then I found out that not only draw that all kinds of stuff. She's an artiste go support art people school when people are talented. It is cool and people are talented. We should try it sometime drop recluse. Well, she did she did do a comic strip called rat man versus the mutant fungus which I am going to maintain read the second. I have the duty to that sounds delightful. Well, Joe thanks for finding that tweet. Yeah. You're welcome found it online on the internet. Good of. I think that about wraps it up. And this was our final episode. So we have no more edgy content for you, the listener. But that was a great run. I hope so. Yeah, don't you agree. Joe? Yes. Lots of good content. Good job being press. Abe and Ryan. I was just saying literally the bottom half of the trip. Oh. Aves Aves the one on top talking to people with holding the microphone. You're just. You're just the legs in this. It's just visit Campbell fraud. Yes. Thank you. Everyone at the age, you press office, Lauren enhancing, Shane and all those folks Olivia couldn't couldn't cover the meeting as well as I would like to without your help. So I appreciate that Lauren even helped me figure out what I was gonna wear for my story clatter event because I was not sure we sure I was gonna put which jacket. It was a whole thing. Together, we made it happen. So thank you. Everyone needs you for making the meeting possible for me to cover and with that. We're going to get back to our regularly scheduled programing can't tell you exactly what it will be. But I can tell you what have a whole lot more science. Giulio sort of. Baby. Visit science sort of dot com for show notes links to all the stories we talked about an waste interact with the host guests and other listeners. Science sort of is brought to you by the regular media network of podcasts with audio engineering by ten of the encyclopedia brunch podcast. That's all for this week's you next time on science. Awesome. Well, thank you so much again to the scripts train g you team for taking the time to sit down with us and tells about their awesome plight. To play outside plate about thing. Is it puts plates bad plays? Like awesome goal of while. Now. Bleep that. Awesome initiative. Start all over. All right. All right. All right recorded forever. Joe Sony regrets recording Joe recording Sinophile. Shoot my recording. Oakland all crashed.

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69. Case Report: Cardiac Allograft Vasculopathy (CAV)  UCSD

Cardionerds

1:39:16 hr | Last month

69. Case Report: Cardiac Allograft Vasculopathy (CAV) UCSD

"Worldwide cardiovascular disease affects the lives of hundreds of millions dedicated cardio nerds everywhere are working hard to fight this global epidemic. These are their stories. Welcome back Carter exists other than Dan. Thanks for joining us as we toured fellowship programs across the country as part of Cardi nerds report series produced in collaboration with the American College of Cardiology fellows in training section, each episode will feature a cardiology fellowship program fellows from that program will present and teach about a fascinating case and share. What makes their hearts flutter. About their program, each case discussion is followed by an e CPR segment from a content expert and a message from the program director. Before we dive in just remember who we are an independent educational platform. This podcast is not meant to be used for medical advice. The views expressed you're doing to reflect the opinions or policies of employers the case you're about to. Hear is one hundred percent compliant. We thank you for subscribing to and supporting the cartoon hurts our mission is simple to democratize cardiovascular education, promote diversity and inclusion empower everyone to learn and teach from the basics to the advanced while fostering wellness and humanity. If you believe in the mission, consider supporting US ON PATRIOT DOT com forward slash nerds every little bit goes. A long way we're also excited to grow the platform by mentoring the next generation of Cardi nerds. We are establishing the cardiologists academy and are looking for residents and fellows to join as Cardi innards fellows. Please see the Lincoln, the episode description to submit an application, and now without further ado, let's continue on our tour with another fascinating case from Amazing Cardi nerds colleagues. We are just so excited to be visiting such a wonderful city San Diego in the Great State of California we are here with three amazing fellows, Dan. Her Pre Kwan guys, could you introduce yourselves? Hey there. Dan Thanks for having US Yeah I'm. One of the chief cardiology fellows earlier is here and excited to be here. Guys I'm harpreet. One of the other chief fellows banks for having us. Excited to do this in my name's quantum bouillon. One of the second your cardiology fellows at UCSD cited beers well, Dan her pre and Quan well come to the show. This is so incredible to have you guys on and the been. So excited about this episode about every episode. But really this episode in particular because I went to medical school at UCSD and felt every day I was learning medicine. On the very beginnings and every day felt like a vacation. It's such a great city. We'd love to hear about it from your eyes and your perspective. So take winning favorite spots. So we can all got together and I can rekindle my left for San Diego before we get started that of it. Yeah. I San Diego truly is one of the more beautiful cities and really a lot to appreciate about this area. I. Think for the purposes of this. And this conference, probably one of the more relaxing venues that we've done several times was fellows is on one of the fire pits on the La Hoya Beach. It's area where you can rent a firepit sometimes at night and just sit around there watching the waves crash. Very great weather. Very nice relaxing. I think for this conference if you can imagine your co fellows, colleagues sitting round firepit talking about interesting case sets the tone very nicely. I don't have to. Imagine I've been there I love it and I'm so glad you took me back there. Why do we do what we love doing? We're hanging out with friends talking cardiology sounded great. So let's dive into it. So I'm going to start with the case. This is a nine year old male with a history of prior or a topic heart transplant five years prior those complicated by rejection who had presented to our hospital with progressive dystopia rethought. Neha. In lower extremity of. So a little bit more about that history as stated, he had developed aggressive Disney on exertion of the time span of about one week that accelerated two days prior to his presentation. He added additionally endorse Abdominal distension bloating or top Neha as well as lower extremity and Dima previously his New York. Heart Association Functional Class was a class to symptoms meaning he was able to walk about one to two blocks without symptoms at baseline, and again, this is in the setting of a patient has a history of rejection and half wrath of his transplanted heart at that time which he presented to us, he had essentially had symptoms the dismay at rest in was markedly. Limited with any degree of functional exertion whatsoever, it's interesting when you bring up New York. Heart Association because what's conventionally taught in many medical schools and programs is a question of how many city blocks a patient can walk generally more than a blocker twos considered nyj classification to less than a block and white take classification three there obviously differences in blocks. One of our great thought leaders in the director of our heart transplant program. Dr Aller asked a great question when we're trying to decide how limited a patient is in their functional capacity and it's as simple as ask if a patient felt wended walking from their car to the office appointment in general fixation feels. Quite short of breath with just that degree of exertion. It's a marker of at least class three symptoms because as we know, there's a big difference with in New York City block in the boxster in San Diego. So it's one of the ways that tease that out our patient has stated had symptoms can even at rest on review assistance for our patient he denied computations or syncope he denied cough fever or your eye symptoms like sore throat Reinerio's ricky joints. He also denied chest pain nausea vomiting or bowel regularities. One important points in a patient that has a history of accord. Transplant is lack of innovation and the heart, and so the typical symptoms. Of Satan engine our scheme Ya may not present with chest pain. So that's why I wouldn't always be a reliable symptom in a patient such as this but some of the more atypical symptoms like nausea or fatigue would be important to ask with respect to compliance with medications. The patient up into this point had endorsed total compliance with all of his medications Dan I'm going to reflect on the case so far this is a very concerning history giving a young man with a heart transplant is coming in essentially with what sounds I. Don't WanNa Anchorage just yet. But what sounds like left sided heart failure symptoms with this Nia or Nia as well as right Extremity Dima the differential diagnosis for heart failure is essentially the same as any other patient with the addition of a few important features. Right. One is all the causes of heart failure in a heart transplant patient to are related with immunosuppression, right and credits for instance, and then three I. Think it's also useful to go back in the medical history and see what was the indication for heart transplant in the first place better understand our host. For example, there are some entities that result in end stage heart failure indication for transplant by can recur. For example, giants held myocarditis. There is a recurrence after transplant in this patient were a differential diagnosis going have to be essentially the same. As any other patient is going to have to ask all the things that can go wrong with heart transplant, a transplant heart itself, the features with Immunosuppression, as well as the original cause of heart failure that led to the transplant in with less exactly right and I think that's good cerebal perspective because it is important to take the initial indication for the heart transplant into consideration. As you stated, there are many disease processes Malcolm Diana's processes. sarcoidosis processes that can cause residual cardiac dysfunction and that would indeed an important aspect to pursue when you're trying to elicit etiologies forgiven compensation, and that actually brings us quite well into this patient's past medical history and he had actually received a heart. Transplant survivors prior at the age of twenty four, and this was for an easy call rhythmic genetic right ventricular cardiomyopathy, or a R V. C. for those who don't know this is a fibro fatty infiltration of the right ventricle ended about half the patients it can actually involve the left ventricles. Well, it's a progressive carton off the attends to be associated with a high ventricular Arrhythmia burden and does tend to cause quite severe heart failure oftentimes requiring a transplant, and this is the case for our patient following his diagnosis of a RV see as twenty year old or so he had developed several de compensations as well as cardiac arrest. Ultimately, he did eventually require that heart transplant which was. Pursued at outside institution, which unique about our patient is that he was a young man at the time of his heart transplant and that's a lot for a young adult to take on the process of being entwined with the medical system taking suppressive medications showing up for Echocardiogram and diagnostic cats that's not easy for anybody especially challenging for young adults I think that was part of why this patient particular had so many issues with non-appearance fortunately, there were four distinct episodes from the time of his transplantation up until he presented for this hospitalization in which he suffered from various forms of cardiac rejection, and these were invariably in the setting of sub therapeutic immunosuppression levels, not taking immunosuppressive medications. Dan these are some really great pearls and really great over viewpoints. I will say one thing that I really admire about folks that go into Carter map the really deal with these patients is how challenging it is. Let me rephrase it this way you have a patient with rb see which a young patient otherwise healthy may have been an athlete may have been very active and all of a sudden hit with this idea that their life is different forever. And and sometimes, they may not becoming an acute to compensated heart failure things are progressing slowly and you as the cardiologists see the writing on the wall and you know where things are headed and you really have to help them cope with these really drastic changes, Kartika transplantation. So complex and I'm not just speaking of the surgical aspects by making your patient, the most ideal in suitable candidate that they could possibly be to get the actual transplantation requires more than. A village, it's just an incredible amount of work that goes in to taking care of the patient with the patient. Again, being the captain of the ship and then transplantation is really almost the beginning of the process. It's really a lifelong condition that requires continuous support both from a psycho social and medical aspects, and that's really what you're describing over here, and the other thing is it takes more than village to preparation reputation for transplant, but it also takes. More than a village to keep the patient live post transplant, not just in the acute setting in the hospital. But even as they go outwards, obviously these programs that are high volume or even lower volume have the infrastructure set up to take care of these patients and so when somebody presents like this gentleman with a week of these changes that is very concerning, you know even if he has struggled with compliance issues and adherence issues to his regimen an aggressive. Modification excetera something happened in the last week, and that's making me nervous about this particular patient. Yeah. That's exactly right. Cardiac transplantation. It's a team effort. It's not just the patient. It's the patients families in loved one it's the entire physician, a nursing team that requires a constant communication to make sure all the steps are achieved timeline reasonable manner. So it definitely is a challenging lifestyle adjustment and major life change, and again for this patient particularly, his age I think that it's not a reasonable to give some a little bit of understanding in how challenging to keep up with all the care that's required for newly transplant. So going back a little bit more to these four episodes of rejection I will say that these were all acute episodes rejection in for those that may be interested in heart failure. I won't die too deeply into it, but there are essentially three types of acute rejection. There's a hyper acute rejection, which as we know is due to Abo incompatibility. That's a very rapid following transplantation to more common types of acute rejection that you're GonNa see acute cellular rejection do t cell mediated process in antibody rejection. Be So meted antibody process. These forms of rejection are routinely surveilled. These are diagnosed via endo. Mata Cornell biopsies, blood work to Ev- I wait for elevated PRA's or elevated percent antibodies, antigens, and these are forms of rejection that is present can cause quite significant cardiac de compensation in the case of our patient, he had actually dialogue recurrent heart failure as a result of these four episodes of rejection ends objection fraction at the time of presented to us was thirty five percent and several of his hospitalizations for these rejection episodes hideous required report as well. Fortunately he had. been weaned off of that with the appropriate medical therapy to treat the rejection, some of these therapies to treat the rejection high dose steroids plasma for recess I, the I G in retired Sam his laughs rejection Zach's about two years prior, and that again was antibody mediated rejection, and by the time he presented to us not only was his left rejection fraction depress at thirty five percent but he had by Hartsdale he had RV dysfunction as well with the mouth moderately dilated are you may be wondering about chronic rejection this Joan, the form of cardiac allographs ask allopathy. A coronary angiogram about four months prior to this, which showed non obstructive coronary arteries with respect to his social history had worked in retail. He attended a community college. He lived alone in an apartment whose monogamous with a girlfriend toxic habits he drank about one to two beverages per week up to three drinks given occasion he denied tobacco use illicit substance use he had no. Family history of significant cardiovascular disease aside from high pressure. Dan. Just quick question we mentioned that it's a toxic cabinet. So would you advise a patient with a heart transplantation that it's okay or not? Okay to drink this kind of alcoholic beverages like one to two per week I think in these beads healer to the individual patients, there's always going to be a balance like anything. With patient care in general given the amount of new suppressive medications the changes that this patient had been undergoing with his medications I probably would not. It was advised to avoid alcohol at that time. It's another contributing factor which may affect various levels, immune suppression absorption medications, and as we know sometimes, patients do tend to drink more whether it's intentional or unintentional, and those can. Ultimately affect drug absorption rates as well as contribute to as we know primary cardiomyopathy if done access. So with respect to the medications that the patient was taking to presentation or his reduced ejection fraction, he was on view bet night two milligrams twice daily as a standing diuretic. He was analysts a parole, ten milligrams daily and further attempts to titrate up this medication were limited by. Of adverse events notably, acute knee injuries in symptomatic hypertension with his patient, he was also ons furniture lactone twenty, five milligrams again, not on optimal dose. This is something that is concerned in because we know from prior registries the Champ H F registry in particular that less than twenty percent of all nations in particular aren't even on optimal doses of medications even if they do have the Blood pressure to support them. This was certainly the case for our patient. He was not optimal medical therapy and there are any number of reasons for that. But unfortunately, he was not what is unique also don't always include half off as a result of prior cardiac rejection. This is a sub population that is not well studied not well represented so we don't necessarily know if these. Optimal doses in this particular population, which has very strange in unique pathophysiology respected Innovation Renan. NGOs, entrances them. No. No medications will work as well although it is theorized in suspected the other medication half that he had been on I've Aberdeen. This is a medication that works on the funny channel and it is derived from data of the shift trial. He had not been put on A. Beta blocker as he had recently had or I would say maybe more remotely. De, compensations at required on Trumpet Support and general with Ortho topic heart transplant patients due to changes in dinner vacation there little more susceptible to the teague in exertion tolerance of a Beta blocker compared to a typical patient with not secondary thawing heart transplant for his immunosuppression the patient was taken to columnists. CERAMAHS and Prednisone, and the this was a new medication that had been introduced over the course of a series of rejections. Zarrella S has additional added benefit in the prevention of acute cellular rejection, as well as cardiac allographs philosophy, and lastly, for his prophylaxis remember all patients that are on immunosuppressive therapy and that have a history of heart transplant or at increased risk above atherosclerosis and CAV. Again Cardiac allographs ask allopathy. So he was on a baby dose aspirin, one milligrams for primary prevention, and then he was on Kravis stats in twenty milligrams do want to highlight this province staten. It's a well documented study. Medication is a staten as preferred or cardiac transplant patients because it avoids decided crump e for fifty pathway, which is involved with its columnists metabolism so it can hidden. Summarize where we are right now, this is a twenty nine year. Old Man was a history of Ortho topic heart transplant by years ago which the original indication for it was a R v C. which have been complicated by cardiac arrhythmias, cardiac arrest, as well as progressive by trickier this function and the patients coming in which supress with evidence of volume overload a patient who's had multiple. Prior episodes rejection, and so I think coming into the exam of this patient where we're concerned about heart failure and part of what we're going to be trying to figure out is differentiating their symptoms of heart failure from kind of other ideologies which could complicate the picture such infection as his patient had episodes of infection as well in the past and Dan trying to get to the. Of these symptoms if it does happen to be evidence of heartfelt, we need to figure out why does patients getting worse and why they're coming to the emergency room. Now that's Great Harpootlian. Let me just pose a question that will be relevant to a lot of our listeners from two different perspectives. Say this patient presents originally right now to emergency room that's their local point of care hospital that isn't a transplant capable facility doesn't have a heart failure advanced heart failure service doesn't have a mechanical circulatory support options and has an ICU, but not they critical care sort of capable facility. What is your level of concern for this patient at this point and either say you're the provider this patient? And or you're on call for the heart failure clinic and they call you and say, Hey, this patient's of the ED is your is your patient. Should we admit the patient to our medicine floor and diaries or should the patient actually be transported at this point to a hospital with advanced heart failure and cardiac critical care facilities as we've talked about because heart failure is in especially, heart transplant is such a multidisciplinary effort. We always want to get these patients back at our center if we can because it's not just us as cardiologists surgeons, it's he infectious disease specialists social work psychiatry nutrition involves are a whole group of people who take care of one patient so we can provide Approach to this patient that can always be provided everywhere in places that aren't set up for that. The answer is that we always want these patients transferred back to us again, going into the physical. Then we're going to be very concerned about the patient's vitals about their output status, the profusion of their end organs and. A big decision point even be on which oxygen or support this patient requires help us tree is this patient needs to come to the ICU tonight or this patient can stay in that hospital overnight and come to us when floors down at is available. Generally. We want these patients always come to us and we have to triage how quickly that needs to happen. That's awesome. Prayed and I'll just add that one of the considerations here especially for this patient who has had a storied past with rejection. Worry about rejection, there's an impetus to quickly in the very aggressively diagnosed that maybe even with micro biopsy, more on more of an urgent basis and what we can think about on the clinical picture syndrome to look out for our rejection essentially is a micro titus, right? It's a inflammatory infiltrate that's attacking the heart and like we talked about in our previous titus episodes, you can think of effecting any layer of the heart it can get pericarditis you can get myocarditis with pump failure shock. You can get affect the electrical system with V F and her heart block, and so if there's concern for any of these we we should look for any of these and in any circumstances I totally agree with you that they should probably come to a heart failure kit bull hospital with a multidisciplinary team who knows a patient well that medical home. But these are the features also keep an eye out for because they would indicate a more rapidly progressive chorus that requires a sort of emerging. Diagnostic, evaluation. Those are all excellent points and I think very pertinent tailored to this patient. I think one of the issues that of triage in particular that comes to play a pivotal role is GONNA be contingent physical exam in a patient. As you know, compromise with a history of a heart transplant is one of the more important exams as all central TRAUMAS and cardiology is in differentiating house sick help critically ill patients for this patient in particular when he presented to our emergency room he. Was Eighth Federal's temperature's ninety eight's is heart rate was ninety five beats per minute blood pressure was ninety, six over eighty five respiratory rate was eighteen breaths per minute his auctions adoration was one hundred percent on air. One feature that you may have raised. Your eyebrow would the narrow pulse pressure in general a pulse pressure the difference between systolic diastolic. Blood. Pressure less than twenty to thirty is generally considered narrow. That is a native prognostic sign and suggestive of features consistent with low output heart failure. From a general appearance. Wise. He looked to be a well-kept male he had anxious aspect, but he was responding appropriately to questions on obstacle tation. He had a regular rates no audible murmurs Noah's three was appreciated. His Jugular Venous pressure was around eleven centimeters water he had sustained how Juggler Lukewarm to touch in the kneecaps in the dislo extremities and he had one plus pinning deem bilaterally up to the level of amid shed respiratory. Wise. He had decreased breath sounds of the basis more towards the lower one third. He did have bilateral by Basler faint inventory crackles and he had a mild increase worker breathing. He was on room air domino. Wise it. Was Mildly, descended out demand. It was non tender. He had no peritoneal signs like rigidity or rebound there. Logically, he was alert oriented she had a normal speech grossly normal strength throughout his electrocardiogram on arrival demonstrated a Sinus Taka card yet one hundred, two beats per minute, and this is common as we had mentioned earlier for prior heart transplant patients because of the. Lack of Bagel innovation in general, these patients will have a heart rate between ninety to one ten, permit a resting heart rate. But as I had stated, the patient was on Aberdeen, which is aimed at lowering that resting heart rate he had a right bundle branch block. This is also common a heart transplant. It's the most common type of intrepid truckload conduction delay. And it does not affect on notice other findings of EKG, worried axis deviation or our way progression in. These were all stable findings from the patient's known prior Ekg, his chest x ray on arrival demonstrated large cargo style silhouette. He had mild bilateral interstitial Dima he had small bilateral fusions and there were no consolidations no masses that we could appreciate on his radiographs. So. We were pretty concerned about this patience when we initially saw him I think the physical exam confirms that. So this patient has mangles mentioned has evidence of narrow pulse pressure concern for low output heart failure. His exam is also concerning with elevate JP as well as lukewarm extremities emphasis. This is affected as well with a chest X ray showing evidence of volume overload with Pulmonary Dima on parole fusions so I think the things that are really important to look out for our marketers of hypo perfusion, and that's he mentioned before I think the physical exam is the best way to evaluate that the kantha extremities tobacco whether they're warm or cool. But also looking at urine output to as well as really. Important. I. Think going to the labs and vowing for markers of hypo perfusion include looking at the creating. Looking at lactate as well as looking at LSAT's the see if there's any evidence of that other things to give patients, history of rejection is to look at whether the tacrolimus immune suppression levels are within normal limits and so those would be the things I would look out for in this patient given the physical exam as well as the cardiac work that's been done so far Dan that was fantastic. Anquan that was a great assessment of we're now just to clarify for the listeners just because they're vaguely tone is removed doesn't mean higher heart rates shouldn't be considered a warning side say your patient. Did have signed a stack of cardiac to one forty would that be something concerning to you? I think relative changed from their baseline would be worrisome. So if they're basically intact Cardi, our heart rate is ninety two, low one hundred than a relative change. The one forties would be concerning I agree with that in that kind of goes along with the idea that they're Vega tone is removed, but there are sympathetic tone. Still Exist Dan, that's brilliant because this is what Madison is all about is tailoring the differential and the assessment to the individual patient is patients outpatient resting pulse was in the eighties. Can that's on I've Aberdeen He. He's presenting here ninety, one hundred. So that is a relative change. So even that change for this individual patient for this person is clinically significant future. If say his resting pulse was a hundred came at one, twenty, one, forty, obviously an additional relative increase adds more value to the assessment meaning of hurry. So just goes to show how you need to individualize all of your assessment care. Yet these are great tasting points and I love the way you are anticipating what was should be looking for in the lab work Dan. We have some information at this point we. Do Okay. So for his lab work, he had a sodium of one thirty five Tahseen was four point three Craton is one point four and that's from a baseline of one point zero he had elevated White Blood Cell Count of fifteen with a neutral Philip shifts of about eighty percents is mclovin was thirteen his platelets were two, five, six, his be MPP was elevated at Twenty, eight thousand and his octave Alina be MPP or BNP that we have when he has achieved they dry weight was about fifteen thousand. So is current BNP was almost fifteen thousand more than optimally Nick BNP wait opt for lameck. Tried Hammett so we've been using the term optical Lena to represent. The ideal volume on a patient to achieve maximal perfusion relief of symptoms. Historically, you've Lee Mc or you've Lena has assigned when patients at achieve that. But every patient requires a different amount of freeload depending on their cardiac physiology. Some require slightly higher CDP's or central venous pressures based on pre existing RV function or diastolic function. They may require differences in their resting volume status. Compared to the historically classic Yulia Nick Status. So we individualize optimistic sauce for each patient I'd never heard of the term optimistic but it makes so much sense and is probably more of a useful measure to gauge a new program peer BNP valley when the patient comes in suggests such tremendous teaching thanks have reached that, but it does come into play because you will find patients. With were that heart transplant that do tend to run a little higher with respect respected their optimal filling pressures and that's okay. So as long as you're avoiding readmissions and symptoms of pulmonary congestion will find patients that can run lower without the incidence of acute kidney injury or electrolyte abnormalities, and so that's why this term octave Alenia comes into play when you're individualizing the care forgive patient. After going over them additional labs show the fifth generation Tr- opponent level returned at thirteen hundred and the repeat level was in the thirteen hundred range as well, which was similar to his baseline trombone allegation and has gone had a alluded previously it is critical to assess for markers end organ hypo perfusion. These include not only the clinical markers like Olive Julia or output in mental status in the physical exam, but also laboratory markers like elevated bill. Rubin lsat's lactate. So forth, this patient's lactate returned at one point seven which was normal but again, lactate elevation, particularly encouraging shock or low. Output Heart failure is one of the last markers who become elevated. There is a delay in elevation lactate. His off tees were also within normal limits ails. He is t bill Rubin was mildly elevated Interestingly, his out meant was slow at two point three, which gives you some marker of his degree of underlying cardiac severity. Even coming into is oscillation is spot and I say not trump to chromosomes aramis level were about nine and his goal is generally around for the sex. But again, these were levels that were taken on mission not true troughs mister gently done just before consumption. These medications and in working up that leukocitis that mentioned, he added Bland urinalysis in with Immuno compromised patients important to get a full urine culture as you may not always now the white blood cell infiltrates within the retail system urine culture was collected a blue culture collected as well. So I have to say, I'm a little taken aback by the fifth generation of the high sensitivity proponent being thirteen hundred and I. Wonder if your ass as just different from what I'm used to amuse saying the normal is like less than ten or around that neighborhood. So thirteen hundred would be essentially. Like a couple orders of magnitude above are upper reference range. How differences from your reference? Range. I reference ranges at twenty, twenty, one or twenty six for the upper limit. Yes. So this is quite elevated is this something you expect in a heart transplant patient to have a baseline elevation that is so high because that makes me wonder is this one patient who's got some degree of injury right? Like everything patients with cardiac emily doses have chronic micro-vascular ischemia and injury in that way or is this a patient with some sort of assay interference with antibody to the opponent ask? Yeah. Also are these labs that were getting these quote. Baseline labs are they from his prior rejection? So are we basically just seeing what his opponents were prior presentations? That's right. Yeah. In general these baseline labs it not as an outpatient were done on prior hospitalizations he had other hostels ations before this. For Various Reasons I mentioned some AKA is or kidney injuries solicitor. Pro So those were when some of these other labs were taken but this elevated opponent is indeed concerning it is above the typical level that we see cardiac transplant patients and it is something that partic- native pornography value for this patient. At that point, we had assess parks reports on patient. These were not in the setting of Q Corner Syndrome or type to the. States. This was the patient's true outpatients or prior to discharge hospitalizations reported level, and again, there are any number of reasons for these crimes elevator opponents that aren't always acutest. And this patient, he had quite advanced heart failure that was like the reason for this chronic quote trope anemia to elevations I would just echo that the high level of proponent gen five or high censored opponent is just a marker of a negative. Value I think that it is somewhat higher agree with you on it that there can hundreds pretty high for a patient especially, a heart transplant patient even for a D. compensated hef ref patient that we typically see really I see above a couple hundred and so I think this does show that there is significant cardiac dysfunction going on and it's obviously worrisome for this patient. So our next step into values patient was an echocardiogram and we'll we're looking for where some of the manifestations of that you can see in a transplant, a patient such as haircut. fusions obvious vegetation's or Sassi's as well as changes to the wall motion or while function in general, the echocardiogram was overall stable from his prior echocardiogram. As stated demonstrated injection fraction thirty, five percents he did have restricted diastolic filling as well. The severely dilated left a trim on top of his global hippo can uses he had known existing ethical a consensus that again habit attributed of prior episodes of am are in a CR and he had mild tomorrow mild CR, Mitral regurgitation custer station reduced RV function with RV right ventricular systolic pressure third for millimeters of Mercury. All of these were stable. There were no new additional findings compared to last cardiogram and no Kirk Cardell fusion abscess or echo density. So with that in mind as had been summarized before, this is already painting the picture of a potentially, very critically ill patients who presenting with symptoms of volume overload, specifically pulmonary edema, peripheral diva, and features both clinically by physical exam, Zam, and by laboratory assessment of low output, his labs demonstrate a Lucas, toes and acute kidney injury chronically elevated opponent chronically elevated BNP that's higher than baseline and demonstrates pulmonary deem as well so. The diagnosis for us was quite clear that the patient had presented with acute on chronic heart failure with a high likelihood of low cardiac output heart failure. The question was what was the trigger or the ideology of this de compensation or deaths potentially new type of heart failure, and so some of the ideology touched on early in the case, include recruit rejection especially given his history of rejection in the past other things being myocarditis could also be infectious etiologies given his elevated White Blood Cell Count and we have infectious work ongoing. Another concern is an acute am. In this patient and the opponent while elevated is appears to be baseline, and so I think that the next steps going forward to evaluate this would be to make sure and rule out rejection especially given his history and I think that can start off with a right Heart Catheterization Swan Ganz Catheter and a mile cargo biopsy, and that would probably be my next step going forward and then that can help guide us what steps to go in terms of managing this patient. This is something that we see a lot in medicine patients with critically ill patients where we have to. Start treating them and start managing them before we know exactly what's going on and that's why things like physical examined vital signs, basic lab work that are readily available are so important as kind of markers of what's going on so that we can start treating the patients stabilizing the patient and hopefully getting better we make time for further tests to gather more information as mentioned, getting a a right heart cath getting invasive human annex and eventually pursuing an endo myocardial bossy. But these things sometimes take time to marshal the resources get everything together wolrd setting off the next steps were also. This patient at the bedside, and this is someone who are worried about this as someone who's sick and so this is someone who needs frequent assessments and that I'm table that we may have our minds for when we're going to do these things could quickly change I. think it goes back to what we learned as interns sick versus not sick I. Think we recognize that this patient is extremely sick and needs acute manage nets urgently, and so like Harpreet is saying we need to basically mashed patient and we can get some more information along the way and put the pieces. Together, and this is part of the reason why having this patient at our center, which is a highly accelerated in advance nas six there for transplant patients was important for this particular patient we had amid the patient directly issue and were able to get a right heart catheterization with into my colonel biopsy very quickly after a mission to get a lot of diagnostic data very quickly, and so that's what we able to accomplish. His right heart catheterization demonstrate a writer pressure of seventeen it opponent artery pressures a thirty four over twenty four with a mean pa of of twenty eight. Pulmonary capillary wedge pressure of twenty three the view as the twenty five. As you can tell by just these pressures alone within the cardiac chambers, the patients elevated by atrial filling pressures. This was already indicated by the physical exam by Fiqh calculation of cardiac index of two point zero generally less than two point two is conventionally considered a low cardiac output. Pulmonary, vascular resistance of one point, two nine, which is within normal range and transported grade, which is the difference between the mean pulmonary pressure in the wedge pressure of about five transplanted grants greater than eight generally indicate a non post Kappler healing process or some other intrinsic homer hypertension ideology to additional parameters I like to introduce or the poppy in the cardiac power. So the poppy is stands for pulmonary artery pulse until the index in this is essentially the difference between the pulmonary arteries is solid pressure and the diastolic pressure divided by the brighter pressure studies have shown that indexes less than two are highly consistent with right ventricular failure particularly after patient receives left ventricular support like L. that this patient's pappy calculate zero point, five eight, which is clearly quite depressed inconsistent with our dysfunction additionally, the patient's cardiac power. Caveat two, zero, point four, seven, cardiac power is increasingly utilized calculation in the assessment of a patient's predicted mortality cardiac power by constellation is mean arterial pressure time cardiac output divide by four, fifty nine, and we know through various studies particularly studies involving in Pella's which is a former mechanical circuits or that cardiac our values lessons or point six or ten day high in hospital mortality as Kwan harpreet had brought up, we did obtain the urgent ABC's these. Are expedited with our pathology department in generally be returned within twenty four to forty eight hours. But in the meantime we were faced with a critically ill patient with high by filling pressures, a low cardiac index, significant with his function low cardiac power. So as a pretext alluded to, we need medically Mansa patient as best as we could. John Effort to improve in Oregon perfusion the patient was started on Wtam. The patient and start a high dose ivy diuretics to relieve pulmonary in peripheral congestion, and importantly, this is something that again is going to be unique at. Center the patient was treated empirically for rejection he received a high dose of methylprednisolone one thousand milligrams. I think one thing I would add here is just going back to what we've been talking about triage Ian and assessing how sick the patient is in a patient like this you really be fooled because this patient came in with symptoms progressing over week or two, but they were on room air a were mentioning well at a stable bloodpressure, pretty stable vitals over all the labs were not dramatic lactates normal. You might think that this patient is not as thick as they are in that kind of goes back to these other assessments that we've talked about in in China's and trying to get more information and watch them closely. This patient is fine. We can discharge and haven't followed heartfully rich clinic, right? Exactly. Yeah guys. This is a really good point to point out that sometimes we initiate a treatment and we have certain expectations for the treatment. So for example, if you think your patient has low flow heart failure and you're pretty confident, that's the reality and you think the beauty means GonNa do the trick you start your therapy and you see what happens in a lot of times you could predict the response that you're GonNa see and when that response occurs, you feel very validated that you're on the right. Track and usually you are, and then you could use your other forms of parameters of your swan data labs to confirm that and the clinical course of course, with patients like this where we really haven't knocked out the diagnosis just yet we started a therapy what you typically expect from this kind of patient who comes in with rejection after rejection and basically is in heart failure and we assume that he's going to be rejection again potentially so much so that we start him on empirically Ivy. Metha-. What do we expect for his course if we write It, completely depends on accede the diagnosis because depending on the type of rejection that is going to dictate the individualized therapy media. Mata Rejection Selah rejection have unique municipal treatments that differ from one another for example, plasma for recess ran about immediate rejection and so depending on that biopsy of the heart in the staining for antibodies. That's was actually a difference soon as far. As specific treatment, four antibody mediator seller without knowing, which is which or potentially in alternative process we talked about maybe having a primary myocarditis or something else that would probably be a little too premature but the methylprednisolone in general is a strong suppressive agent. It will blunt the effects of ongoing process until you can get that biopsy back again, we expedite those biopsies twenty. Four, eight hours. So again, exactly this is not a case closed situation. This is not where you're like. All right. We'll check in next week and see how things are going. This is an active actively investigated case that I'm really interested to hear what happened next from a clinical basis. So we're not getting the optimally MC BNP discharging heart bridge clinic then as much as. We would like that was not the case for this patients following the Swan Ganz capitalization biopsy. The patient was Mitch Icu and he continued to worsen quite rapidly in front of us he developed a new auction environment to liters. Nasal Kanye is labs then began to show those markers of end organ hyper perfusion, elevated lactate, Lt, elevations. He had demonstrated inability to produce a robust amount. Of Urine with our high dose. Ib Diuretics for these folks. We really aim for at least three leaders of urine output with our directs within the first twenty four hours and he was essentially olive direct with about five hundred CC's of urine, and this is on a high dose diabetics and poorly we had a Swan Ganz Catheter, we had tools so we were trending the. Mix Venus oxygen saturation and this although it has been stable continue to support a thick that calculate to a low cardiac index in the setting of a positive ion trooping beauty. So clinically he was worsening, and then throughout that same day he developed in episode Ta or pulses of electrical activity nurse had been in the room and the patient lost consciousness she felt for Paul's. which he did not feel in CPR initiated at that time base our telemetry the was actually sinus Tack Cardio was not of the tea or the ask you can commonly see bTV off with acute rejection episodes that was not the case for this patient. This was the activity he received about a minute of CPR response arousal and Ross return of spontaneous circulation and afterwards. As one would expect after cardiac already in shock his vitals continue to look worse Asala in the nineties Haaretz, one tens twenties, and now the increase in oxygen requirement. So the patient overall Nali was clinically worse thing but he just had a p arrest in. So I would ask of my Qana Pre the differential for patient like this with p. a. arrests were thinking. Yeah. So typically what I think about a cardiac aetiology to arrest I think about either a ventricular arrhythmias ventricle attacker cardio, fibrillation. So it's unique to have a PA arrests think the differential we learned with this includes the five inches in five TV's, and so it's really good to go through all these possibilities. Can remind you guys the five h include hypoglycemia hypoglycemia hydrogen, which alludes to acidosis hypoc Alenia Hypothermia hyperglycemia, and the teas include toxins Tampa nod. Tension with or ex thrombosis, which can include coronary and pulmonary thrombosis and trauma. So who wants that are most crucial rule out in this case would be champion non especially since his patient had a recent right heart catheterization and intermodal cargo biopsy, which can lead to a complication like Karl Fusion. So grabbing that bedside echocardiogram is really important to do other things are really important are coronary thrombosis. Or pulmonary embolism. We know this patient has a history of RV dysfunction and so forming clot an RV is a possibility in that can lead to a Palmer leads his compensation. And those are things that would be really important to rule out. Out of a place of really ignorance I, think about the ways in which people with certain disease processes die people with again Gamla doses they may pass because electromechanical dissociation they may continue to have organised electrical activity, but essentially loser contract how function and so essentially, it'd be like a PA arrest is that something you could see in a raging. for example, in a patient with acute rejection. Yet p. a is a really interesting entity because it's try grab bag. It's almost like the heff cardiac arrest. If you think about it, there are so many things that go into all of these conditions. But one thing that is, as you pointed out, it's really like the end stage of so many other disease entities barring of the tea arrests. So many entities basically ends in hypotheses are end in hypothermia end in hyperglycemia and so on and so forth. He as the definition, there's really different ways to explain it. One is that you have troop ea where you actually. Zero, pulse you have no pressure. Your heart is just as this electrical activity that really does nothing no. At I I, remember this distinctly when I was on my shock trauma in medical school and unfortunately a patient was passing and but they're echo pro was don and you could just see the electrical activity was ongoing on the monitor but the heart was literally dislike vibrating and not doing anything and there was no pulse generated but you can also have sustained low blood pressures that's not detectable by noninvasive measurements. So for example, if your map Is Thirty consistently. So your heart is actually raising a blood pressure, but your blood pressure Goff is measuring that and that's not necessarily going to translate into a probable Paul's that would still be considered. PA, some people call that pseudo p but at the end of day, you're not refusing the brain or the vital organs. In this particular case, we can have electrical mechanical dissociation as you pointed out. But at the end of the day, you could also have just persistent pump failure and that could be what's going on as well and the other point. Is that you mentioned thrombosis and so you said pulmonary embolism and pointed out some of the risk factors for this particular patient pulmonary embolism of an acute p. e. causing obstructive physiology. So set the V can no longer pump into the LV and I actually found as a resident. We go all these codes and there'd be harassed and you'd be going through your T.'s. And consider, let's say, for example, the heart attack or am I as Europeans the French and then people would say he wasn't complaining of chest pain before this particular and immediately think about p. e.. But actually if you think about it when there's an acute blocked artery, the Sasol at this function occurs almost instantaneously and people who work with proximal allegiance and high risk. I appreciate this and sometimes that's why they're reaching in their toolkit for things like the impel us so that they can have the provided support when they inflate the balloon in the left main, they know the blood pressure's GonNa immediately plummet, and they need something to support them to get the patient through the procedure and so when a patient with such cardiac dysfunction at baseline and obviously his risk factors are a little bit different because he's transplantation but if coronary artery disease is of concern in acute. Could result in an immediate loss of blood pressure. Just some thoughts that I had on pulse selective differential I think that what Dan had is particularly compelling. You can have a pure pump failure you can have transient worsening in this assault function patient like this, and in a patient doesn't have an arterial line as this patient have up. Until this point, there may be a palpable pulse but may not be brisk for strong enough the nurse of help it. So it could just be very low blood pressure and as decouple that in that setting, but clinically, you have to treat the patient as if it is a truly complete loss of pulse but indeed pump failure low blood pressure definitely on the differential. Yet I would echo that I. Think with my reading of this case, sudden death transplant patients can occur in severe cardiac allographs Galapaththy as well as if graft dysfunction from rejection, and usually it results sincere rapidly developing pump bill with mechanical dissociation. So I think you're spot on it. When you when you bring that up I'm loving this conversation, but I'm at the edge of my seat. What happened next? Did you guys do? All right so as one mentioned, we evaluated this patient and for some of those potential causes, we obtain repeat labs his electrolytes were not suggestive of task issues. Huma Lomas normal as would be expected to lactic acid was elevated to five the. Craton up to to the L. were elevated with respect to with Rambault says, we had obtained a repeating CG, the Renault new st segment changes or t wave inversions. Metropolitan level is just slightly higher than what had been about twelve hours. Prior nothing that we would think of is aid acute myocardial infarction at that time chest x Ray also known for acts and in a bedside ultrasound was without a pair of Cardinal Fusion. Again, it's important to grab that apper. Someone's had a into micro biopsy. Those can be seen it. Yeah. At that time on that, that side ultrasound was even lower and this is common after a cardiac arrest, but the F. was about ten percent. And so this patient is clearly critically ill in carjack shock now with a PA arrest and he continued to only get worse despite our aggressive medical therapies, these did involve escalating doses of beauty mean and dopamine, as well as the introduction of Basil Press Therapies to elevate the blood pressure up nefyn bays oppressing. But even after these maneuvers attempts at controlling perfusion, he had continued to develop into organ marker dysfunction in hypertension. Additionally, he had two additional episodes of PA arrest. At this point, he did have arch you'll linemen and these were true pulse electrical activities events in which he did not have A. away form present we had actually had a t probe during one of these presents. So we had a continuous monitoring of the heart function and there truly was a lack of systolic activity that will generate a stroke volume wait for. So a sick patient with recurrent PA arrest in a patient like this, we have to think about escalating therapies and one of the most important tools that we have advanced transplant center is GonNa be temporary, mechanical circulatory support as either a stabilization mechanism or a bridge to something a bridge to transplant a bridge too bad reject assist device or potentially a bridge to recovery. In a patient like this, there are any number of risk stratification tools clinically, it's clear the patient already at a high in hospital mortality, but there is data from the stave trial which looks at the save score. It looks at different sort of variables like age blood, pressure, renal failure, and together, they can or attend a pornographic information about the likelihood of in hospital mortality. For a patient who is put on something like echo in particular in calculating this patient Shave score it came out to about a in hostile survival of forty two percent if the patient were put on something like Aetna and for two percent chance survival in a twenty nine year old is a relatively higher survival one that we will want to pursue as aggressively as possible. Compared to say percents revival closer to two or three percent giving us. Clinical worsening Andy. Compensation we had considered mechanical circulatory support this conversation. This juncture that we are in this patients chorus is just really helps contextualize the earlier conversation we had this patient was just having shortness of breath, Neha pnd and Laura extremity email with his heart transplant his rejections in the past it's. So useful that he's at a center where we can start having a conversation about temporary mechanical circulatory support at that hospital at that facility without having to transfer somewhere else. So it's just a reminder about the triage decision making that you would have in this in this context really glad that the patients under your care right now where you can have this conversation an activated. Yeah, I think having a high suspicion for something else going on for something worsening having careful monitoring are really important aspects of this case. So I, think we come to another big decision point here. It's clear that the patient is worsening despite escalating interventions from our standpoint multiple Linux tropes, base oppressors despite that the patient is developing worsening perfusion having multiple episodes of cardiac arrest as clear at this point, something else has to be done something new has to be try, and so the next step is mechanical. Circulatory support is Dan set, but that's a big area. There's a there's multiple things that can be done from Kenneth Circulatory support. We have to decide what's going to benefit the patient so it can start win. Something like a intra aortic Olin pump and impelling device, which could be both less cited support cited support tandem heart the biggest gun that we have and terms of mechanical circulatory support and the reason the act was chosen for this patient was they had evidence by failure they had both by clinical evidence by laboratory evidence by their echocardiogram, there's evidence of failure on both sides of the heart. So I'm going a little bit about ECM oh here but essentially what most extra corporeal membranous oxygenation but answer, and there's two components to it went via Akmal and via needs. Venus arterial. Extra Corporeal Gas Exchange. So doing the work of the lungs and oxygenating the blood, and then it has a component of temporary mechanical support as well. There's also the akmal which would be Vino Venous Act. which is just oxygenation. So does not augment or supplement cardiac output. Is Not for circulatory failure but as for pure oxygenation issues and this is something where actually saying we're seeing a lot more at the Akmal right now in the setting of Kobe nineteen, we've been having a lot of patients with nineteen ammonia been placed on the. And we've seen a lounge patients at UCSD unfortunately actually a lot of them have done pretty well, and that's a a shoutout to our owner critical care department user amazing job taking care of these really sick patients by going back to Akmola's a whole. I think Dan brought up the score and the reason we use that is ammo is akin to during transplant or doing. Elvis. Placement where it's a big effort requires a lot of resources and comes with a lot of complications and so you have to make sure you're choosing the. Haitian for it so he want choose a patient who has a good prognosis has an ability to cover. You want them to come off Akmal and as damage visit either GonNa be support them to allow them. I'm recover from the underlying ideology of their compensation or it's going to stabilize them long enough to get them to permanent support. Such leff introductions device or re transplant the a visa Venus Kanye, which is typically in the vein can also be internal jugular vein basically draining the oxygen needed blood from the body it goes through an Oxygen Nader? Oxygenated blood announced reinfusing into the body through arterial Kanye again typically Summerell and that blood actually travels retrograde. Awards. The upper extremities and the brain to provide oxygenated blood. Up with two organs, the times when we reach Fried Mo- would be people with Karnik shock with by ventricular failure, cardiorespiratory failure assistant, a refractory cardiac arrest. This patient basically meets all three of those categories in the different sort of from other types of mechanical supporters. The Injury Arctic balloon pump a standard left sided impel These only support the outputs from the left side of the heart so. If you have a week right ventricle. You can basically support the left side of the heart generate output to the body with any basically bring it back around to the right side the heart but it into a week right heart conscious make the right heart worse and increase the preloaded into the right heart. But if you're not supporting the right heart in a patient like this, they may not improve. contraindications would be getting to with earlier about how this patient has for recovery. So anyone who's Got good. The logic status before they had an. Arrest or non unknown downtime criminal illness and you're worried about putting them on, I will ever recover. So AKMAL. Can lead to bleeding issues and cargo apathy issues and so someone who already has evidence of bleeding already has a problem you're going to be concerned because you don't WanNa lasting to make someone worse, and then I also WanNa just touch. Under the physiology Iraq Akmal one thing that's important when managing these patients is that supplements at a cardiac output, you can get three, four, five leaders, cardiac output circulating. It does the work of the lungs oxygenating the blood, but it doesn't actually unload the left ventricle at what I mean by that is you're taking blood from the systemic circulation you're. Not Actually taking blood specifically out of left ankle. That's important in a patient like this because they're left ventricles week, you kinda blood pool there in the eventual in addition that could actually make lv dysfunction worse because at Mo increases their blood pressure, it increases the blood flow into the arterial circulation that last part CS more after load which lead to. Elevated left sided filling pressures increased distension of the left ventricle, which then can lead to increased myocardial oxygen consumption. Escambia can lead to bachelor blood in pulmonary, Chemo, enter stasis of blood and thrombosis, and so one of the major questions that comes up with someone who's put on Komo is if you need to support the left ventricle and something we call venting. benching is basically using an additional strategy to take blood essentially out of the left ventricle into the stomach circulation Savannah can flow through the circuit and so options for that ethically for us included in article. Or an device. The some of the major complications that can occur with at Komo include sirs inflammatory response. By damage and bleeding basketball complications in limb ischemia there's thrombosis and stroke risk as well as I kinda talked about worsening a LV function. Another management issue that comes up with these patients is the use of Profusion. Catheter is essentially if you picture the akmal circulation, you have at the arterial cannulation you've blood traveling retrograde from the lower extremities upwards you may not be providing for flow into the lower extremities, but just overfishing catheters another catheter that can be added on that provides Antara grape, slow to lower extremities to prevent or extremity scheme you. There's also potential issues with differential perfusion with upper and lower parts of the body, and we get concerned about ensuring that there's cerebral profusion but I think that the big tank on for va GMO is augmenting oxygenation aren't many. Output, you're supporting both sides of the circulation, the left side as well as the right side. It's sounds good for someone with by trigger failure it has to watch out for people with LV dysfunction. Make sure that you're not making the situation worse with hiding left after Logan were left killer billing pressures and Ben as mentioned, it comes with a number of other complications. So he got to choose the right to. Make sure that this is someone who's going to benefit from this big intervention and then make sure that you have an exit strategy and that's something that as soon as you put someone enact moat, we say we're trying to figure out how get them off. I just Want to say that this was such a terrific overview have nothing to add you over the fact that echo is a by ventricular as well as pulmonary support win over the access in the Kanye you end over the complications whenever over the north-south Syndrome, the Harley consider with mixing cloud you talked about the need and the strategies for LV unloading. This is a great overview and very relevant for patient. What did we do for our patient and Missouri Unloading Strategy Utilized in this case Yeah so this patient ended up having essentially three major interventions. So lawn was, of course, the Va Akmal cannulation artery vein. Can't was or the venting of the left center, all irreceivable impel US EP to again offload that ventricle to relieve the body of Pulmonary Dima, and then for the third interventionist accusing Cather to his Laszlo extremity to help refuse that this'll several artery all the way down. So those were the key interventions that redone these were done at expedited, very quick manner with their interventional team, who does that here UC San Diego and so now that we have placed this patient on Oh with continuing support, we had again continued our medical management which still consists of high dose steroids ongoing Presser Attribute titrate. But at this point, we need to discuss exit strategies and contingency plans given that this patient regardless of aetiology of the heart failure shock given that his patient was young critically ill, we had already started the workup for potential by that Ivan Chiklis support device as well as a Redo repeat or the topic heart transplant. This was a organization committee ad hoc joined on the spot with our surgeons are Dietitians are Tristesse, are psychologists are ID doctors wall get together at any given time throughout the day discuss a critically ill patient about what the next step should be. And for this patient, it was decided that in addition for approval for by. Mad, support a repeat heart transplant would also be indicated and beneficial. So the patient was actually listed quite quickly or a heart transplant as soon as we got into by a cordial biopsy back that biopsy actually ended up not showing antibody or cellular media rejection. So our premise of antibody mediated rejection which the patient had four times. Fire was not the case and as such, we were left with one last major differential, which was a chronic tapa rejection something that we discussed before cardiac allographs ask allopathy and as we discussed patient had. Relatively normal angiographic coronary arteries, four months prior but it is conceivable impossible that within those four months, the patient had an acceleration of his CAV. Cardiac allographs, klopp A to such a degree that caused his currently compensation, and it's also very conceivable that a lot of these harasser pump feelers were found these micro vascular events that caused temporary stunning as well. Pure pump failure. So after including this Cav again in some situations if there is an acute in mine acute myocardial function, you may pursue with an angiogram for the intent of. This patient was beyond that face this patient was to critically ill patient had already been to the point where he needed some contingency plan beyond this, a stand would have been unlikely to resuscitate as patient sufficient. Agree. So fortunately, the patient was listed the top of the list and so at this point, the patient had been in our hospital for about eight days or so been on the Mos for about six days and listed for about two days after which point he did receive his heart transplants he did exceedingly well after this was able to be weaned off on tropic support and reinitiated on suppression. The remainder of his hospitalization was relatively uncomplicated. Alternately required tracheostomy decaffeinated due to ventilator associate pneumonia, ultimately, the patient was able to walk our hospital about four weeks later with his second heart transplant this overall being his third heart. That's just amazing. Bravo. incredible outcome after such a pfeiffer, his life. And I love the idea that ad hoc meeting of the minds. How incredible is that? We really do have one of the more engaged and attentive surgical team that I've encountered in my training this far in. Asian you that team be available at any point during the day, and that's what we were able to provide for this patient that ad hoc meetings critical. Gang against speaks to making sure the patients these are into medical home capable facility that can provide such complicated and a high level of multidisciplinary care. So the ultimate diagnosis it sounds like really was advanced cardiac allographs, vascular apathy that was our conclusion and in supporting that the PAP dollar G. of the heart, actually end up showing. Near Complete Lumina would ration- of almost all the Parang Komo arteries. So the small arterials up refused the Mao car yet as well as diffuse intimacy thickening all EPA cargo arteries left main led left untreated descending agree as well as the right coronary artery and on top of this, the biopsy of the hartselle showed varying ages of myocardial infarction likely at least some form of small micro infarctions that had been occurring up until four months prior to his authorization. while. This really helps understand this chronic anemia. It's like something again, we would be see in patients parallel would be hard. micro-vascular infiltration with micro-vascular Ischemia, and you may not get an appreciation for that. In the coordinate geography. I think it really helps you understand the pathophysiology of Kartik allographs basketball up at the. So in summary It's admirable Basler fiber proliferation and results of Corner Infield inflammation typically affects both the microsurgical Tori Epoch Arial Assistant. There's actually a high incidence of cardiac allographs Ascalon. And some registry data suggests that forty percent at five years and one eight death beyond a year after heart transplant are due to see Avi and. It was singing the classic symptoms of Myocardial Ischemia usually absent. ALLOGRAPHS innovation related to heart transplant. And so these patients present very atypically with weakness dysplasia palpitations or even late with evidence of graph is functioning with heart failure arrhythmias or sudden debt, and as mentioned before sometimes see Avi can't progress very rapidly you should the slow process, but it can progress rapidly and unpredictably. And so a matter of months the ANDROID game can change from a relatively benign picture to diffuse occlusive pattern, which we saw our patient in such rapid progression can be associated with the currents of late antibody mediated rejection, which this patient had, and it's that kind of helps put everything together in terms of detection it's really important to tech early, and there's a couple of different ways we can do this. There's noninvasive techniques including stress. Echo Khariaga fee and myocardial perfusion imaging ca but the gold standard is coronary angiography and due to diffuse Longitudinal concentric nature of this analysis compared to the focal et cetera pattern that we're usually familiar with atherosclerosis coronary angiography can't really underestimate the presence and burden this process and what we've been doing is that we've been using ibis intra bathroom ultrasounds although there is no clear consensus on the diagnostic criteria for cardiac allographs asked the. But most of the clinical trials applied the criteria of a maximum thickness of zero point five millimeters in the left entered descending artery. One year after transplantation as being diagnostic of allographs. Ask allopathy. and. So once we've made the diagnosis, there's different ways to manage this. And apparently we've been using aspirin although there is no strong evidence for this use, we use it on a presumed benefit to help with micro thrown by formation at the sites of immune injury in the coronary and the. Other that we can do include practice then our Stan therapy and you should initiate two weeks after transplant and as Dan mentioned statins, the practice is preferred stand to use just because it is nonsense metabolize by the three four mechanism. And stance have been shown to reduce CAV as well as mortality and also severe rejections. So that's why we use it so much. The other management strategies actually to adjust immunosuppression, and so this includes our m. torn hitters, which stands for Mammalian target a Rapamycin, and that's of. And Ever Linus which inhibit the fastest muscle and fiberglass proliferation it's very similar to the drug alluding stance that we use for coronary atherosclerosis and Dan also mentioned the use of PCI although there have been no control studies that have been performed determine if it affects improves graft survival. But if there's a focal lesion one artery, it can be used more of a palliative measure. and. The only definitive approach for treating CAV CARDIAC ALLOGRAPHS ask allopathy is re transplantation and we usually reserve that for severe great three. Cardiac allographs ask allopathy and that grading is based on the data presented in the. International Society Heart Lung Transplant. In two thousand ten. So in summary I think Cardi allographs ask allopathy is a very common. Complication or causes morbidly mortality after heart transplant and it can present very atypically and so you have to have a high suspicion of. Surveillance for this is through corny geography and the use of Inter vascular ultrasound. A once we identify we can treat it with different medications, including Aspirin as wells adjustments of our immunosuppression. Yeah I think what made this case? So interesting is that he had an geographically normal coronary arteries four months. Prior this by the way was also what is on him was in that chronic elevated high range, and so this is a show how I think it is is playing a much more important rule in a surveillance of CNBC for these patients routinely. Now, we are doing drugs with itis for all of our transplant patients to look for accelerated. See. So ultimately, this was a case of a very rapid acceleration of C. A.? V. In a patient presented encouraged shock who we were able to resuscitate temporarily with Akmal in advance mechanical circulatory support as a bridge to a heart transplant, and ultimately he was able to walk out of the hospital in is doing quite well, I'm happy to say is in good spirits in his keeping up to date on all medications. So we had a good outcome for this. Patient guys this is just absolutely fantastic. Cussin' was critical. We learned so much and it really is a testament to capability Andy Importance of having multidisciplinary environment a whole heart team where people can come together and pull resources and put the patient front and center, and it's really it's making me very nostalgic because I'm remembering so much a how much I enjoy being a medical student learning from all the legends, mentors and educators at UCSD whether it was rounding in. The United Dr Shamma mood or learning from Dr. Lori Daniels or getting advice from Dr Blanchard. I mean it was just such a great place to learn as a medical student is one of the places that really helps me fall in love with cardiology to begin with. But I'd I'd love to hear your perspective. Now, what are the reasons that you decided to become cardiologists and what makes your heart splutter about training at the University of California at San Diego? So I can start without for me, I had attracted to cardiology from really medical school when I had begun learning about the basic physiology and pathophysiology of cardiovascular system is a great deal of logic in the way that this system works that just for some individuals like myself draws you more into it because you can work the different components of the system like the Ranan NGO tension system franc-sterling Kerr's different sort of. Physiological Assessments Gender Stan How derangement can act patient and the manipulation of logic in the flow of cardiology just became an intellectually engrossing experience for me. What's so unique about cardiology is that we have these very advanced tools and diagnostics intervention ranging from EP interventional to advance imaging to genetics that really helped patients they truly get better. They feel better, they have better outcomes and they are less likely to pass so for me. Become. Cardiologists was a no brainer effort to truly help patients UC San Diego is a very unique institution situated in southern California, and our goal is really to train academic editions. Physician scientists in physician leaders are hormones. Goal has always been to train individuals to be thoughtful physicians that provide exemplary outstanding patient care. We have a very rigorous program with massive breadth of exposure to all major sub specialty services and this includes adult. Congenital heart disease structural heart disease like Tavern Trans, Eric Replacement, or Mitral even try interventions as well as a electrophysiology arrhythmia departments. Obviously, we have advanced heart failure and transplant teens, genetic cardiomyopathy departments in very advanced imaging training as well and C.. T. Murai pet and so forth as a result of the exposure to all these events of specialties, fellows come out as training with exceptional competency co cats level to in. Almost every field within their part of Asir Training. So this is C. T. ECHO MRI nuclear t the number and amount of exposure and experiences that we get is truly outstanding. Every fellow I think incredibly confident and competent leaving UC San Diego Basser Medicine, training fellowship we do train independent leaders. We train people to be thoughtful critical thinkers those that can rely on the training of those that can work well with others. To provide very advanced clinical care for patients. So most of our fellows do tend to stay within academia, they do tend to pursue advanced officially training, but we do also have some fellas that are more geared towards community medicine as well, and then in addition to these advantages UC San Diego is a research institution period. We have some of the more robust research that I've encountered in my career thus far from a basic. Or Bench side research to ongoing clinical trials we are leaders in robotic detainees corier. Intervention. Tavern Inventions Mitra clip intervention structural heart disease, as well as many other uncle trials and so for fellows who are interested in research oriented tracks or continuing to make research large component of their careers. It is not challenging to find a good mentor in good launched project or project super soothing throughout your fellowship and it doesn't need to. Be. said that UC San Diego is incredibly collegial and friendly my colleagues coworkers from my fellow, sue the internal medicine residents to our sub specialists to our consultants. All friendly. We go on a first name basis. It is a very welcoming environment of very warm feeling to be a physician here. The city is obviously amazing and beautiful. There's so much to explore. It's hard not to like being fellow here at UC San Diego. So I was looking forward to this part of the segments, which is what makes your heart full herbs I listen to this podcast pretty frequently. And I can remember the day. became interested in cardiology, which was first year medical school drew my cardiology. I remember listening to this events heart failure Dr Larry. Allen. Approached him after class and he took me under his wing and invited me to the advanced Hartford unit in I rounded with him and I remember just falling in love and I think it comes down to mentorship is what? What brought me to cardiology and I formed such great mentorship at UCSD in Iowa Echo the same. It said from Dr Lori. Daniels to Dr Eric Adler to Dr how Tran and Dr Yuri I've had so many great mentors at UCSD and I'm just so happy to be where I am today I. Think you see us the overall a wonderful place to train. For me like Dan said my interest in cardiology started with the physiology and everything else really springs off of that. Everything. We learn in cardiology everything we do it all tracks back to physiology. It always seemed to make sense Senate. Would always find it really fascinating how the heart works. And then learning more about cardiology, I was amazed by the breath cardiology even as coming into fallish I learn more about really how big cardiology isn't the variety of aspects of cardiology all this specialties, all different imaging modalities in procedures that are unique to cardiology, and then there's the burden of disease. This is the biggest awesome mortality in the world, and so it's an important field in its field that has been impact. And you can have an impact in so many ways that we take care patients all the way from prevention to these end stage critically ill patients on maximum life support that science technology have provided us to this point cardiology is I think an amazing field it covers everything at allows us to be medicine doctors every day leave our medicine training behind, which is what I really love about cardiology is we were internists I, and now what what makes Meyer flutter is preventive cardiology and my passion is learning how to keep people from getting to this point inches to keep people healthy and to prevent the development of cardiovascular. Do that from a clinical research pointed out that as mentioned are able to find mentors, and in here at UCSD who helping me to get skills, I needed at the foundation for hopefully a career doing research in that area you guys these perspectives were absolutely beautiful. Thank you for sharing but you forget the best part the soccer planters still take people out for drinks and food and do aboard review every now and then Oh. Yeah. We we actually that up until cove it was it was. A memorable experiences but yeah, we would. have to renounce go to one of our local restaurants reserve the entire room at just questions at jet. Awesome experience like he was doing obviously Cova things have changed we've transitioned overt. So. EPIC. It's just it's really a testament to dedication to teaching and the investment into the fellows absorbing Dan Quine harpreet you guys are just absolutely amazing. Thanks for inviting US into World San. Diego is a fantastic place. We talked about a post transportation heart failure. PA. V discuss such a gamut and spectrum of. All things you need to know heart transplant all things you know, pa all things in you know resuscitation mechanical circulatory support ca and why people need to become cardiologists. This has been such a delightful conversation. We are just so impressed with your program and the collegiality between you three, and also just the breadth and depth of knowledge that you have part on us today. So thanks guys for joining us at things for being on the show. Of course this was an amazing experience in mid Dan Avenues. Yeah. Thank you so much. It's been so much fun. Is really enjoy this experience. Thank you everybody for listening. That was our case. So now, I'm going to hand it off to our experts faculty leader. One of our associate program directors he is a very wonderful physician. One of our most treasured mentors here at UC San Diego. Dr Tran He. Mechanical Circulatory an Eldad Program here at UC. Thanks guys. Hi, this is how we trend at the University of California San Diego I am heart failure MCS. Transplant cardiologist I also am the associate program director for the General Neurology Fellowship alongside the program director of the Advanced Heart Failure Fellowship, I am a certified ten Thank you very much. I'm Dan for providing this platform for fellows over the world it is my privilege to follow our superstar fellows, Dan Mongols Harpreet Bhatia and Kwambonambi. Thank you for honoring me as your CPR discussing. Now, if we were to be at the shore side Hoya I probably start off. This discussion with funny stories about my fellows or maybe even regale the audience to the last October thousand nineteen pre pandemic when we had our divisional fellows versus faculty softball game I won't chain these guys by sharing with you the final score but we did beat the fellow eighteen date. Nevertheless, we are task for a more important discussion as with all of our heart transplant patients. This gentleman involved in this case is near and dear to our hearts. Now, if the five you have already pointed out as we consider heart failure patients for cardiac transplantation, we are arriving at perhaps. Most life altering event in their lives and had our institution heart failure faculty finish soon, ward rounds, and always pull up a chair after is you more rounds to patients bedside along with their family members? We put our phones on silent and embark on an explanation of what had happened why they're at our center what therapies we are currently employing in what they're. of He's we are considering in the future to make matters even more complicated our patient. This situation is a young guy, and as you pointed out, these discussions must be met to delicately here at UC San. Diego are general cardiology fellows are an integral part of the advance failure team. They have front row seats to patients who transfer from local hospitals insecure genyk shot. Also, very complicated patients, needing MCS, transplantation and complications thereafter. Now Dan Harpreet Kwan performed wonderful engaging discussion about our patient support cardiac allographs, Ascalon the but let's further elaborate on the ladder. So early in the post transplant period, the first six months or so lives can be claimed by nonspecific graft failure, acute rejection infection however beyond the first year cardiac allographs vascular with your cardiac transplant vast klopp. The is among the top causes of death in according to the ICT or the International Society for Heart Lung Transplantation Registry report in two thousand, nineteen about a third of patients have angiographic disease, five years, fifty percent, ten years but there are studies involving cereal intra vascular ultrasound that reveal. Most immel thickening occurring within the first year transplantation. So what's going on the particular vascular? The is diffuse, concentric, Longitudinal, integral hyperplasia confined to the allographs, epithelial coronary arteries, and this remodeling lead to substantial luminol loss. As you saw this case, obviously the allographs micro-vascular church also involved. Now, this is in contrast to the traditional atherosclerotic plaque, which is focal non circumstantial usually in the proximal portion of the epithelial vessels houses happening we have illogic Anonima logic reasons immunologic events appear to be the most important factors though since CAV develops in the donors but not the recipients arteries number one number of episodes of moderate to severe cellular antibody mediated rejection appears to be clearly live with the development of. Number two development of donor specific antibodies denote development of anti, Hoa Class One or two number three mismatching in particular H. L. A. D. R. H. L. A. So it's probably a good time to talk a little bit about t cell activation at this point remember image C. Class. One of antigens are recognized by C. Eight cells, which forces secretions of cytokines and. Then ultimately activate coronary in the field cells and these activated endothelial cells express increase immediately class to antigens and activates CD four cells, and that's how you get some antibodies involved. So who's at risk now important predictors of see development include in the donor older h mail and hypertensive disease in the recipient H., A. Mismatches Younger Age schemic heart disease other risk factors include cytomegalovirus. Infection hyperglycemia and insulin resistance, hyper denia. So the five you spoke a little bit about the signs and symptoms. So let's turn to that for a bit and you're right patients typically do not have symptoms of Angina, and as the hardest enervate at the time of transplant. So it is not uncommon for patients with basketball to have silent myocardial infarction. So in death and. Progressive. Heart. Failure symptoms in some patients, sudden death may be the first symptom of CAV mechanisms. Other ventricular arrhythmias may include a rapidly solving pump failure with mechanical dissociation us. Both of you guys have pointed out because the nature of these silent symptoms we in practice screen patients for Peres, Disease Corner geographies, the most common screening approach in here at Uc San Diego we complete. Evaluation in tandem with Ivy's during the first five years. What we do for surveillance is a yearly coronary angiogram. If the EGFR is less than thirty or forty adobe, mean stress Echocardiogram is performed instead of an angiogram after five years for low risk patients I e normal angios annual dooby mean stress Echo is ordered for those with evidence of. An annual surveillance with corner and geographies performed renal function allows now we can get away with this surveillance protocol because CV typically progressive. Slowly however, there are occasions when lesions progress rapidly and unpredictably in this case, Ivester Intra Vascular ultrasonography is helpful to confirm the diagnosis of CSV but not all transplant centers employ ibis the criterion for diagnosis using. In. Clinical trials is an increase in maximal intimacy thickness or mit a greater than or equal to zero point five millimeters in the led at first detection or in comparison to the last ivory evaluation. So what do we do now once we have a patient with Cav quantock about stance, we put all of a heart transplant patients on aspirin and statin therapy during their hospitalization. After the transplant, some studies have shown statins to improve. CAV INCIDENCE, we initiate pravastatine milligrams a day up titrate to forty milligrams daily US Quantum Dan pointed out the CNI. Intact grow. INHIBITS CYP three, eight four and of not private is not completely metabolize by CYP three a four. That's why we use it initially into inhibitors like rolling this, never loomis have been shown to reduce the progression of MIT NCNB the reports of wound healing issues particularly in renal transplant literature. Therefore, at our institution, we do not use Roma in the early transplant. As much. But when we do find an MIT that is greater than royalties point five millimetres, we do what we can to keep the cashier inhibitor add on the immature inhibitor in lieu of the Anti metabolite like Michael, Bennett? That's a mammoth for salsa. We would then keep combined trough goal of CNN inhibitor closer at about ten favoring the CNI level that is to say a trough goal of about six to eight for the CNI and three to five for the tour inhibitor keeping in mind per patient level. Decisions regarding anemia thrombosis Pena tremors and renal insufficiency are all very important. Re Transplantation is the only definitive approach. So in summary when we take patient post transplant and evaluate their CAV risks, we'd take a look at vascular risks. We obviously avoid rejection. We have seen the prophylaxis replaceable on Aspirin stent therapy. We survey their coronary tree with an geography with ibis at about three months and yearly up to about five years once. We find cardiac allographs ask allopathy them will convert their anti metabolite, an tour inhibitor fairly early on again, re transplantation for those with severe is Great Three v with allographs function, we will consider for a re transplantation. So at our heart transplant program is unique and now you look into the latest RTR tr that's the scientific registry of transplant recipients are center challenges, the status quo, all the time we push harder particularly when we. Find patients who are sicker we were the first on the West to transplant Hep C. Net positive donors the first on the West performed DVD heart transplantation we transplant across positive cross matches, employing clues, Malvo Celera's we have the most experience in the nation with durable Bi ventricular support. So patients can late in Preab on their way towards transplantation this is all just supposed on one of the best survival in the nation for A. Transplant program our size and we couldn't do without our fellows. So Wonderful Job Dan or Preen Quan I look forward to your case discussion online I look forward to the bright future each of you have in cardiology and I look forward to the next fellow versus faculty sports outing maybe a different sport I'm Dan thanks again for providing this instrument of fellow education. Next time we will see the the Hoyas Sandiego so bye for now. Then now. Message from the provost record. Tucker. Daniel. Budget, who is just such a special ed remarkable person a very strong advocate for trains even when I was a medical student, he was always A. Source of guidance and mention docker flashes hello to everyone. I'm Dr Dan Blanchard on the program director for the Cardiology Fellowship program here at UC San Diego. This case is an example of the high acuity cases. We see here at UC San Diego very active and busy clinical program here with high volumes of. Patients, advanced heart failure mechanical support interventional cases, and electrophysiology if you want procedural volume. Here, we are the only academic center in the Santiago region. So we see lots of bread and butter cases, but also a lot of acute issue level cases. We match six general fellows to advanced heart failure fellows to interventional fellows in two EP follows each year. Also every year we take several of our graduating fellows on as faculty we have become the largest division in UC San, Diego Medicine we are second only to the Department of Medicine itself in size we're glad you could be here with us today. Wow what an amazing case a huge thanks to the fellows and faculty for enriching us with yet another terrific discussion and incredible addition to the Cardi nerds case reports earnings. Sure. To check out the show notes for all the case media available for key take home and discussion points and links to the program. If you'd like the Education Takeaways and graphics delivered directly to your email signed up for the heartbeat. Cardio nerds newsletter you can join the email list using link in the episode description as well as from our website www dot cardi nurse dot com. We've thank the ACC fit section chaired by Dr Notion Research for their support and collaborations, and of very special. Thanks to our incredible production team for elevating our platform called Blumenthal Tommy Dos. Dugan Rick, Ferraro, old songs, and given breeze. All internal medicine residents as Johns Hopkins Hospital as well as their phenomenal MED mental and University of Maryland. Radiology. Feld car. If you love the show as much as we can be sure to spread the word rate review on your favorite podcast platform and consider becoming Patriot with the show on Patriots Right. That's a wrap time to make like an s two and split.

Dan immunosuppression San Diego chronic heart failure elevated White Blood Cell Coun Pulmonary Dima heart block Heart Association Functional C Heart Association Carter UCSD Cardi nerds cardiomyopathy Heart Catheterization Swan Gan American College of Cardiology Aberdeen low cardiac output
Behind The F-35s New Aerial Tricks

Aviation Week's Check 6 Podcast

14:34 min | 1 year ago

Behind The F-35s New Aerial Tricks

"You're listening to the check six podcast brought to you by editors from across the nation. Week network listeners now have access to special subscription offers including thirty percent of Aviation Week and space technology. Go to podcasts dot Aviation Week dot com to learn more. Welcome to this week's addition of aviation winks. Check six podcast. I'm Steve tremble, the defense editor, and I'm here at the Hilton hotel and Melbourne Florida just outside the air and space show in Melbourne where the thirty five a demo team did their first public flying display of the air show season just yesterday March thirtieth and I'm here with the two pilots. They're responsible for creating that display captain DOJ Olsen and major Aaron gamut Stephen and so first of all let's just find out a little bit about you guys. What your background your flying background in the air force? Yeah. So we're both fifteen guys. I was an Email guy situ seats and that thing game. It's seem guy. Thousand hours, plus and those airplanes and we've been the f thirty five program for three years and got, you know, five hundred hours three hundred hours in the in the airplane. So it seems you guys are really opening up the flight envelope. This year last time we saw some of these maneuvers by the thirty five at an air show was at Paris in two thousand seventeen when the Laki demo pilot fluid. So what was the decision there? What was behind that? You know, y open up the envelope this year. Yes. For the air force. It was really a number of jet. We have the right number of jets to be able to support doing the demo and aired -cation training commands. Primary mission of training, training pilots. Additionally, the three f- software fully unleashed, the ninety capability of the airplane. So and Billy Flynn was flying the demo in Paris. He was doing it in seventy airplane an airplane that could if not. Flown. Right. Could you could over Jay the airplane in full three f jet ninety capable Eunice rip it around, and it's not going to allow you over g so combination of that three software, and then the procreate number of jets to be able to do a primary mission of training people. And then also be able to support the deputy when I can see probably that three of software helped you with three maneuvers. I saw yesterday starting with the new one the newly named DOJ. Oh, drift. Yeah. So tell me about that one. How did that involve what what's going on there? Yes. It started at three years ago when it was heritage flights. It was a maneuver where you could just pitch out midfield and set up to land, and essentially, it was a typical close pattern type Opole, but it was max v and then over time it's volved to what you see now, which is a fifty alpha poll or you are bleeding. A lot of energy and turning the airplane, very aggressively hundred thirty five degrees, turn heading change in about three seconds. And then at the completion of that fifty alpha drift fifty degrees angle attack drift than the jet with the the most powerful motor ever put in a fighter as ability than climb out of that maneuver even very slow speeds. And because it's airbag pass it could be on the five hundred foot line. So it's up close, right and people's face. And I think because of that and just the noise of the airplane. It is typically a fan favorite even though it's one of the most simple maneuvers to execute. Is that something you can do in fifteen down that would not be? So I mean fifteen you doing about with thirty five degrees alpha, and then that's it. You're accelerated stall. So the nose would just hang up even you have sixteen. Also as an even even worse really there. If you wanna call it that I mean, it's twenty five or twenty six or something like that. And that's it. And then it would it would not twice angle to accurate of sixteen would not celebrated stall the nose just keeps dragging even in even in deep stall. So it's it's a mirror. That's unique to this jed, and and probably raptor, something like fifth generation something that's fits generation typed like controls, right? I wanna get into that too. And the difference the difference between the after nine to the thirty five is factoring which after. To has thirty five dozen. But we still see some of the sim- similar Hieaux high short turns and maneuvers. But there was also the square loop that we saw yesterday, and it was also something we saw at Paris airshow. Yeah. But tell me what goes on there. And how do you do it? Yes. This score loop is crucial in that the vertical down portions of the portion of the square that were pointing directly at the earth that moment at time is where all the safety factor for the entire routine is designed off of so that was the crucial. Part of the demo design in terms of learning from walkie, and basically acquiring the work that they put into figuring out what's called the cone of life. So where I can be appointed the ground, and then be able to recover the airplane with enough altitude, and you have a certain airspeed basket that you have to be in to be to be safe to exit that maneuver in various failure, modes of the airplane. So if you have full of jet, which we do point nine percent of the time, there's tons margin. But the key part is that if there were any types of mercies that we're going with airplane, the maneuvers still fully safe and recoverable in any of those types of situations. So there's so much margin. It's probably the most robust demo routine ever created. Then you also have to you need a lot of knows thority and pitcher authority to get the nose backup. Yeah. Exactly. Yep. In that's so that's a it's a move. I think that really is a trademark of a high alpha fighter to be. Able to do that. Because as you mentioned before like simply like viper. It wouldn't look square at all. So the ability to go fifty alpha Basie squat the jet at every corner is what makes that one. Look, really, really really cool. Well, the final one in really, maybe the most impressive one is the pedal. Turn at least. Yeah. And so before we talk about, you know. You know, why that special on the thirty five what goes on there? And this this is the loop. And then you as you come over the top, and it almost seems like it sort of hovers, and then you ninety degree turn after you pull the nose. Yes after. Yeah. After we for the pedal term, and we go over the top and all these maneuvers were it comes in at the show is when we get on top. I'm calling out out in airspeed and gambit who's intimately familiar with the routine because he operated make sure that the numbers come outright jet is war needs to be, and then he'll respond with the number of degrees of Pelter that we're planning on doing based on the altitude that we apex. When we apex worth fifty degrees any tax. I mean, we're just sliding the sky, and it's we're actually sliding backwards as we finish that loop. And then busy once the news comes through vertical through ninety reason as low input the pedal commands and the jets in a high attack fly control at that point. Right. And so it starts yawn the nose around. Right. And that's that's how it's done is this it goes into this alternate control at high angle of attack after about twenty or twenty five degrees. Twenty six twenty six years away. Then it goes, the the rudder, I guess gets authority. So that's interesting part is what's actually kicking the news around. There is a horizontal tails. So the the rudders are washed out if fifty degrees angle attack. So the horizontal tails going up set directions and Basie drags or pushes which he wanna think about it. The nose around any. Your right now. So what what would be what I'm doing with stick and paddle at lowering of attack would be commanding role. Now this hi will attack control. It's commanding yard, right. Well, and that's the trick. Right. Because you know pedal turns seem to be invented with thrust victory. You know, going back to the X thirty one. And then what what the twenty two has with two dimensional thrust factoring. But the thirty five is one of the few if not the only, you know aircraft without thrust factoring that can pull off them over the absolutely makes it really special to. Well, so so let's talk about the relevance of these kinds of maneuvers. You know? So I think part of this. You're trying to entertain a crowd, right? There's a big crowd there and they've opaque money for tickets, and so forth and parking, and but in terms of showing how the aircraft performs as a combat aircraft. You know, what is that was the information? You're trying to tell the people that are looking at this. Yes. I mean, give it you wanna talk about BFM tips about this. So with the yeah. All of these have tap tackle, applications, the the I think the strength fighter in this fighters physically in a dogfight would be at slow speed fighting capability. So if you can slow down, and you know, in topgun speed hit the brakes the other guy flies by and that's kind of the idea behind a lot of these maneuvers show. Right. You know, be at the penalty on the drifts the hang of attack. Maneuvering the ability to point the nose when you want to kill is pretty important. So there's I can think of a lot of times in the striking goal where I'm pulling in the jets give me as much as she can give them almost. I was almost able to turn on a gun. Get a gun shot in a mock dogfight just the judges couldn't get there right there in this airplane. You get that fifteen degrees plus extra anal attack from where I was in the F fifteen and then that can make all the difference between turning the gun on and and having to pass up an opportunity there. So so is this some of these are all of these maneuvers. They part of what you learn basic fighter. Maneuvering or BFF's offensively everything that UCSD at the show pilots gambit and everybody else back in the squadron these maneuvers all the time in their space. So we're just simply bringing him down to the surface and doing it in front of a crown. Sometimes they have thirty five gets a bad knock on maneuverability. You know, and it was actually it was designed as a Strike Fighter. You know? And which you know that that. It was designed to complement the errors periodicity mission of the F twenty two. So I guess are you trying to sort of dispel perceptions about the thirty five as you do this. I think when people see the demo I it speaks for itself in a see that already talking to people yesterday when they see it. I think people. Wow. Okay. You know, the sings things for real, and, you know, the maneuverability that we showcase out there at the show is I mean, just the tip of the iceberg of this airplane and not at all what I would consider to be the most impressive parts of it. So if people are impressed by the demo, which they are then men, they're so much more to it beyond that that would just, you know, if people knew about it, they'd they'd be very impressed. Well, might we see some of these other maneuvers and future airshow display. Certainly I think there's room for expansion of. Display, and I hope whoever takes over the team next year takes to a whole, you know, another level. But really what I'm kind of implying is Steph outside of the show environment. Not so much the maneuvers, but just the capabilities of the point from a stealth sensor, fusion information fusion type of standpoint, we're out there employing this airplane if things are going right in the airplane is doing what it it. Can we're not ripping the plane around. I mean, we're flying at one g were were undetected. Elaine detection, and people are dead way. Before we have to do any of this aggressive. Maneuvering the people in show and we've seen so far, you know, in in exercises red flag that that's exactly how the airplane is is performing right using ESM e w and radar and distributed opera Ganz, it's lethal out there. And maneuvering of dogfight is a is a last ditch option. I mean, it's it. If we got to that point than than something something happened before we we should really never be at that point is the idea behind this airplane. Are there any, you know, I guess hard limits on of course, there are limits. But you know, could we ever see something without thrust factoring? Could we see some of these maneuvers? We've seen in the way to like, you know, they've got the Mondo flip. You know, the falling leaf with flanker. Does you know are those things possible, or, you know, do you have to have a thrust factoring nozzle in the propulsion system to pull that off? Certainly thrust factoring adds a lot. So I don't know if you know, get some more imaginative minds, and maybe come up with something. I don't know. But maybe not an airshow display onto flip or something. Yeah. We were falling life. I mean only seen that Russian displays but not too many. It's pretty it's pretty crazy too. Oh, yeah. I don't know. But you know, it's possible. All right. Well, I think we'll leave it there. And thanks again for participating in the podcast today with the with the second display here in Melbourne and for the rest of the season next. All right.

jets Paris Melbourne Basie Hilton hotel Billy Flynn DOJ Olsen Steve tremble Paris airshow editor DOJ Melbourne Florida Stephen Opole UCSD jed Hieaux Jay Mondo viper
460 Staying Calm in the Midst of Chaos With Julie Potiker

Mindfulness Mode

28:55 min | 1 year ago

460 Staying Calm in the Midst of Chaos With Julie Potiker

"Mindfulness mode four hundred sixty and she was like wow dance frying. I've never seen dad cry. I must really need to do something. Welcome to mindfulness mode. I'm bruce great to have you with us. Hey i know that if you've listened to the episodes before ear where that i ask all my guests about a book that they recommend related to mindfulness. I did a spreadsheet and i collected all the information to find out what what books were recommended most often and i made up an e book of my own telling you about the twelve the most recommended mindfulness books on the mindfulness mode podcast and i'm giving that book away to you as a mindful tribe listener listener for free just go to mindfulness mode dot com slash top twelve books now today day i'm interviewing <hes> guest who started her career as an attorney and she was very serious voter study and and worked very hard hard but he ran into some major problems major problems with stress and she tells the story on today's show and she started getting mindfulness training and she she signed up for a course with rick hansen's. You might know as a very well-known mindfulness expert expert and she talked so much about where she where she moved through her life and how she got to the point where she wrote a fantastic book called life falls falls apart but you don't have to sit back relax enjoy my interview today with julie pot accor- hey mindful tribe life can feel like it's falling apart. You can feel like you're just standing on this sand. That's about to be just this completely washed out from under you. Life can be challenging and it has been for today's guests. She has had some major challenges. I can tell you that because she shared so many of them in her fabulous book called life falls apart but you don't have to and it's all all of those methods for staying calm in the midst of chaos. That's the subtitle of her book. I'm here today with my guest julie elite product julie. Are you in mindfulness mode today. I am i owning mindfulness mode. I am grabbing buy-sell through the seat and through my seats and looking at your face and i feel nine poll array here right now well. It's awesome to be here and well well. I wanna ask you what does mindfulness mean to you julie so that's a good question because people get confused about it. People think that mindfulness is meditation and it's really different things so i just shared with somebody today that i haven't really made <unk> time for formal seated meditation from the last seven to ten days because i've been so busy but i've been doing mindfulness in daily life activities off all day long so for instance having your coffee. You're not in the morning. If i noticed this morning. I have a current copy machine. Hey i was reading watching the water goes around and around in a circle while it's warming up i was noticing my body rebating watching that circle around i was feeling the soles of my feet on the kitchen floor and then improved the honky. I put my creamer end and then i smelled it. I felt that i took a breath and took us up. That's delicious. That's a mindfulness in daily life activity just your i set of your morning copiers. He and it's low way down because while you're doing those things what you're doing is worrying and ruminating. You're not on your to do list what has to happen today already so true so true. I wanna share a little bit about you with mindful tribe. She's a mindfulness was expert and author and she's an attorney who began her serious study and investigation of mindfulness after graduating from the mindfulness based stress this reduction program at the university of california in san diego then she went on to become trained to teach mindful self compassion and she completed the positive neuro plasticity training professional course with rick hansen now she shares these and other mindfulness techniques with the world through who her mindful methods for life trainings. My guy already mentioned jazz new book life falls apart but you don't have to so tell us a little bit about how life fell apart for you just kind of looking back what pops into your mind as one of the biggest examples because i know there are a number yeah so i had i get clinical depression and i don't know how many of your listeners own up to that what kind of embarrassing and shameful but when the right after the twins were born. I was part of the russian and i actually wanted to die and i remember calling husband. I was driving up. Dr heights road and i remember the moment when i thought okay. I can't stay on the planet anymore. I can't do it on in too much pain onto tired. I'm sorry i gotta go aw but there was some voice in me that said call your husband and so i called him and i like sweeped out in sobs house. You know i wanna live and he said where are you and i said i'm on del. Mar heights roman he said pullover and he drove drove to me and on his way he hauled my OBGYN and made an emergency appointment finn i left my car took me to the doctor doctor and the doctor put me on an antidepressant paxil which was relatively new at the time. My daughters are almost twenty five so this was warned orleans twenty four years ago and the the paxil took the defendant out of the pool for many and working with the therapist helped me manage that level of you know clinic called <music> depression and then i sort of went along with my life but occasionally i would get taken down by away a and it was all before mindfulness based stress reduction. It was all four that i would get taken down and then something else would stop me like not wanting my kids to there's this movie where these daughters. It's not funny. It's black humor where they they witnessed their mother's suicide and then they end up so screwed up that the only thing they can do reliving worker the sunshine cleaning company leading eighty nine crime scenes so when when they were older and i was already studying mindfulness based stress last reduction in all the other classes and i would have like a real wave of depression i would be like no. I don't want my daughter's duty working for the sunshine cleaning company the kind of humor myself out of it eventually with all this practice i healed my brain rewired life rain <music>. I don't have depression or i no longer have to take any type of press her doctor take years wow and then you you had to deal with addiction and you had to deal with the addiction that your daughter danielle was suffering and i i know dealing with addiction yourself can be absolutely difficult as can be but then dealing with it in a child is a whole different level and it sounded like that was just a a devastating experience. Can you share that with us so it's heartbreaking you having a loved one with us as zoar and like to think about it has a substance use disorder. I also think about it as the ones in ability to manage difficult emotions nations so it all comes back to what i t which is how to manage the oceans the lion's share of people in essence use disorders have those disorders because they're nominating a mental health issue and the mental health issue is their inability thirty two with sir difficulty lotion light molar ability or anger or sadness surrey. You know what i mean like the big emotions that we all have they can't surf it and know that it will go away so they now met with a drug or alcohol. Whatever in the case of of in the case of having this problem you know as a parent red it's heartbreaking and soul crushing devastating and then there's all the little terrible anecdotes that go along with actually getting her into that we didn't have to do an intervention as my husband actually cried uh and she was like wow dance crying never seen dad cry. I must really need to do something and so she willingly land dan but then once she got there. She loves day. She she asked scared her. She didn't have the tools she has now so now oh it's a horse of a different story. Thank god it's been a few years already. She had two trips to rehab indiana. She she is really doing well. You know and i know for people that are listening that are going through this themselves. It's two who steps forward one step back re steps forward two steps back and then you have to ask the loved one like look at it from ten thousand feet and notice that the person's i actually still moving in the right direction but she's been doing mindfulness yoga dialectical behavioral therapy the cognitive euro feedback e. m. d. r. or trauma. You know so she's got this. She's she's got this. It's a program. I actually created um with an entire room of clinicians that are run by one clinician that have all these different modalities. That is what i thought she needed because the traditional go limited repondu and do therapy was damaging to her. It is not helpful to everybody so that wasn't gonna work. Try that into work right network because of her org constellation of you know sometimes <unk> ross says is triggering and traumatizing or people that are highly. I always says so. I learned a ton about this and for anybody going through it. I just have to say there's this one book called ball a loving nearer nearer by puncher and <unk> on it really helps me at it. The gossip that your loving connection is your your loved ones best chance for survival. I love how in your book julie you and each chapter with mindful methods and i love love what you said about those mindful methods you said imagine a huge storm of emotion with high winds buffeting you to and fro and then imagine being protected under an umbrella of calm and under this umbrella made from the fabric of your mindfulness meditation and compassion practice the air is is light still and balanced at gives a great idea of how you've written this book and it's a beautiful beautiful book and a helpful book so practical. Can you give us some feedback of someone who has read this book made it work for you and then got back back to you and told you about the transition. Oh yeah i can't have you liz. I guess they would be called. Testimonials testimony or i get fabulous emails in comments from people that have not tried everything but even try just just one thing like they're using a hero esto now and it's giving them. It's it's helping them not the frantic or worried because it's breaking the worry where by looking at the here now still feeling it and thinking about in when they're doing that. They're not worrying anymore. In how liberating that is one woman went to visit her sister. She didn't wanna have it here now strong down so she made it here. She chose a bracelet. She swearing-in decided it would be her now graceless in so she rabbit and it's kind of like people using a rosary or worry me's are a you know. It's the same kind of tactile thing so that people can do also i've had tremendous feedback on people actually keeping a gratitude journal. You know that like wow i'm noticing the happier person and then the people around me are responding differently to me because i'm showing happiness and they're catching my happiness muehring around but they don't say that and then it's like a positive feedback loop like that's so cool and then there's people that say like i i can't meditate meditate meditate fine picking activity that you do and be present with it or take a mindful walk. Oh my gosh we could walk and meditate like absolutely walking <unk>. If you're not doing your to do list all the time worrying worrying about that conversation you just had you're doing mindful yet. You're giving your brain and break not hard. It's true i've had a lot of guests share that with me that through through swimming or jogging or so many of these different activities and it can be something something else completely something passive but you know it's really true that we can make mindfulness what works for us. One of the things you shared in. Your book was a comment that the buddha reportedly reportedly said that we make our own hell by wishing things were different than they are and isn't that so true. Have you ever done that julie. Let's see how many times a day do i do that. I think in the book i say i'm an architect and now right like little little apartment buildings springing bringing up and now now you know what the we really think about that. It's normal to wish that things are different here from. Let's say going back to the addiction conversation of two minutes ago. You have a loved one with a substance use disorder sorer. You're not gonna wish that was okay. You're gonna wish it was different and then here's the further inquiry that you go to you okay. It is what it is hanae. Be okay in my core in my core knowing you of course. You're gonna wish to be different. You're gonna wish nobody at cancer. You're gonna wish nobody died. You know you're gonna. I wish all those things because you're human and you want to alleviate suffering but deep down in your heart and you with the knowledge that this this person has a horrible diagnosis. I'm gonna be there is support and watch it unfold. You have a a secular mindful self compassion course tell us what that's like. Orion bozo compassion course is are really gorgeous curriculum. It was written by christopher christopher now. She said taxes harvard the a center for MSNBC started teaching that class at the UCSD center for mindfulness which is in my backyard so i was the lucky like guinea pig. I group got to take it in a week version. In twenty ten eleven nine years ago already then in twenty wani fourteen. They advertise that they were going to do a teacher training. So that's how i was in the first group of teachers. I did to get trained and teach class. It's all over new glow. I think maybe fifteen languages was thirteen. Languages languages like two years ago homemade added a couple more languages but it's a set curriculum like mindfulness based stress reduction is curriculum from what i needed to do because i'm the and <unk> i've taken so many other trainees is i needed to hold in so rene browns were in rick hansen's were indian seagulls were and some other really important calamari training rainy and so that's why changed the name to michael methods her life from michael salt passion but it's based on my passion in order to be kosher calling mindful self compassion. It needs to be a full eight weeks two hours and forty five minutes and you need to stick. I think like ninety percent of the way to their ereck you so i didn't wanna hurt their brand and i needed to bring in and all these other resource materials mindful methods for life. How long is your course so. It's an online course. Do you go on live with you. It's six weeks in person. I'm thinking of launching an online class. I also do workshops that are anywhere from. I'm an hour and a half to half day whole day so it just depends how much time i have. I have a three the day coming up which is really gonna be fun with like one hundred twenty women up above los angeles death camp called camp mountain. Why where i'm going to be teaching guided meditation in the horning just for a half hour and then in the afternoon having like a two or three hour workshop so they'll oh yeah in a format like that right and your website is mindful methods for life dot com so mindful tribe check this out mindful all methods for life dot com and of course you can find julie on twitter. You can find her on facebook on facebook. It's mindful method support life and that's a great place to find. You is no julie my face. I know a lot of people are saying oh. They're they're having a problem with facebook. I hope my tribe never doll space book because there's almost eighty thousand awesome there unmindful methods for light and it's curated so it's really really good happy supportive inspirational stuff ramallah arrive as well as lay on creative content like you know blogs or whatever julie that's awesome julia. Were you ever bullied. Do you have a story to tell us where mindfulness would have made <unk> a difference so this is gonna sound so ridiculous but you know when you're fifty eight-year-old. Can you remember something from grade like vividly like it. Has lincoln's happening live. You know that it was dramatic. If you're grown up south judges it as silly so on seventh grade i was standing at my locker and byron junior high school in shaker heights ohio lyell was outside of cleveland into girls both named allan. I won't say their last names nurtured her. Love results now both came up to they were walking together arm in arm and they stopped and they looked at me and they said we don't like your outfit. I wanted literally to like shrivel up in get in linebacker like if there was a way that i could just vaporize this wow wow and did they continue to torment you now. There was another grower tormented mercilessly solicited and she made up stories that i like like some y i used to call some way at night which didn't and that i was smoking looking pat which i think we call dope back then you know with the with the school that was on the other side of the tracks which i was it you know i i don't know now now. When i look at it i mean i just wish that i dan the confidence that i have now. Oh wow and my kids were bullying is especially one of my twin girls was fully and and <hes> i had to go to the principal it was with it was she was cyber bullied. Actually i was a kid we live in cyber yeah and so was she able to move through that with some of the mindfulness tools that you teach that's awesome. I know bullying is your bailiwick and i'm so grateful that you're shining light on and doing such good work on it. The elementary school that my daughters went to for a couple years was ter mobile problem and that's why pull allowed. I actually sent them to interest and he said that although days specifically work being bullied because they were witnessing bullying going on all day was making them at a rest- rack and that this wall had a reputation or allowing the culture of murray and that i should take my kids out of that school which i which i did and i put them in a school that had this was elementary school and put them in his hulu had an emotional growth curriculum that was like just completely healing in uniform but the school i pulled out from i had offered to so you have like parents monitor the playground and lunchtime. That's when a lot of bad stuff was happening and they didn't want it and then subsequent way they did instituted anti bullying curriculum. That's great yeah because of me. It was just timing later julius. We move forward in the interview. I wanna ask you five quick answer questions if you could it just keep it to around thirty seconds or less. It'd be great. The first question is this who is one person who has influenced mindfulness in your life. He's incredible. How is mindfulness affected your emotions. I'm more integrated my inside matches. My outside in. I'm more are balanced. Tell us how breathing is part of your mindfulness reading cows us. All down lowers our heart rate in our blood pressure. It's an incredible gift. If you exhale longer than you inhale everything slows down sure and the next question is about a book and you you already shared a book with us bomb b. a. l. m. b. a. loving mirror addiction. It's for the family members of solider who has a substance use disorder in the other books. You'd like to share that are related to mindfulness. Wow so i think people should read mood brain hard wiring happiness resilient all by cancer and anything john cabot sin like bulk castrophe living or wherever you go there you are and i it would be made nice to repress growers to are there any apps. You use news that you recommend for people that want to be more mindful insight timer. I n s i t insight timer. Although there's many many thousands of meditations on there they have it organized really well and it's how many minutes you wanna practice so if you only have four minutes you could do that or twelve minutes or whatever also remember charge. You is always and i'm on there. You can search for me absolutely <hes> to a great app. I love it yeah. It's absolutely terrific yeah julie. I know you're found at mindful mm full methods for life dot com and on twitter on facebook on that wonderful group that you have mindful methods for life on facebook. Check it out <hes> julia. It's been really fantastic touching base with you and talking about all you've done and of course your book which i've found particularly excellent life falls apart but you don't have to and it's so great because you have such an incredible storytelling ability which you've you've proven right here on the show. Thank you again for being with us today julie so much it was really a blessing awesome by now. Thanks thanks so much for joining us today on mindfulness mode for show notes for every episode checkout mindfulness mode dot com and type the guest's name or the the episode number into the search bar. You can also go mindfulness mode dot com slash whatever episode number you like if you've enjoyed this podcast you can help out by subscribing to mindfulness mode wherever you listen whether it's on itunes or stitcher google play a spotify so many places you can hear mindfulness mode so hit subscribe and share because that truly helps our show show and remember what i mentioned at the top of the show about the twelve must read mindfulness books any one of these books can indefinitely change your life just like they have for the featured guests. I've had on my show. All of these books have been recommended there that twelve most recommended books on mindfulness mode download this free gift at mindfulness mode dot com slash top twelve books looks so remember subscribing and sharing helps keep mindfulness mode on the air till next time mindful tribe us what we've learned today to reach new heights heights of calm focus and happiness stay in the mode.

julie facebook rick hansen attorney twitter depression Mar heights indiana john cabot san diego orleans los angeles harvard google ross liz christopher christopher UCSD MSNBC finn
AMCA breach extends to LabCorp. Still no EternalBlue in Baltimore ransomware attack. Frankenstein malware. Real hacking isnt like the movies. Huaweis no-spy deal. US Data Strategy. Patch BlueKeep.

The CyberWire

20:31 min | 1 year ago

AMCA breach extends to LabCorp. Still no EternalBlue in Baltimore ransomware attack. Frankenstein malware. Real hacking isnt like the movies. Huaweis no-spy deal. US Data Strategy. Patch BlueKeep.

"Another medical testing firm is hit by the third party breach at AMC. A more officials say, there's no attornal blue involved in Baltimore's ransomware attack real hacking, isn't, like the movies, it's alive. Frankenstein, malware. That is why offers a no spy agreement. The draft US data strategy is out really you should patch for blue. Keep researchers from UC San Diego team up with Google to explore the hacker for hire marketplace. And a universities donor lists has been exposed online. It's time to take a moment to tell you about our sponsor recorded future recorded future is the real time threatened company, whose patented technology continuously analyzes the entire web, develop information security intelligence to gives analyst unmatched insight into emerging threats. And when analytical talent is as scarce and pricey as it is today, every enterprise can benefit from technology that makes your security teams more productive than ever. We hear the cyber wire have long been subscribers to record futures cyber daily, and if it helps us, we're confident it will help you to subscribe today and stay a step or two ahead of the threat. Go to recorded future dot com slash cyber wire to subscribe for free threatened telling updates from recorded future, that's recorded future dot com slash cyber wire and we thank recorded future, for sponsoring our show. Bonding for this cyber wire podcast is made possible in part by extra hop, providing cyber analytics for the hybrid enterprise. Learn more about how extra help reveal X enables network threat detection, and response at extra hop dot com. From the cyber wire studios data try by Dave Vitner with your cyber wire summary for Wednesday, June fifth twenty nineteen medical testing firm lab core has disclosed that it too was affected by the breach at third party collection services, provider, American Medical collection agency at the beginning of the week, quest diagnostic, said that about twelve million people were affected by data AMC, a held that were accessed by some unknown unauthorized party Labcorp puts the tally of those affected and it's part of the incident at seven point seven million. A second member of congress. Maryland Senator van Holland, has joined his house colleague Representative rubers burger to announce that the government is confident eternal blue wasn't involved in the Baltimore ransomware attack Baltimore's systems remain a mess, but the city thinks it will have things more or less ninety percent cleaned up by the end of the weekend. Investigators are trying to make sense of various tweets and social media comments that suggest the attackers might have done at least some doc Zing. In addition to the encryption, they inflicted on those poorly protected. Servers the projected cost to the city is estimated more than eighteen million dollars. But the night is still young different victims of ransomware show different results in their recovery in contrast with the ongoing Baltimore horror show Norsk, Hydro was fairly well, prepared and quick to respond to its own ransomware incident. The company reported its first quarter results today and underlying profits are down eighty. Percent. That sounds bad. But it's actually good. The hit from the ransomware turned out to be bad, but not nearly as bad as it might have been. We've all seen the Hollywood hack right? The hacker properly pierced and tattooed, and be hooded taps vigorously on the keyboard, and snarls a man. And then sure as shooting the hackers in, as you can see when they cut to Colonel panic on the victim screen as the victims boss creams. What? No, like that, right? Well, no, not right, that ZD nets. Take on the results of a bit defender study of how the carbonate gang works anyway, they take months of preparation before they hit a Bank. So it's more ocean's eleven than it is war games. Cisco's Talos group describes a threat campaign. They're calling Frankenstein because the hoods behind it stitched their effort together from a bunch of disparate open source tools, active between January and April of this year. Frankenstein. Lines operators gained entrance into their targets. My fishing with Trojan is documents the attack. They've sewn together uses at least these open source items. I the component that detects the samples being run in a virtual machine a project from get hub, that leverages MS build to execute a power shell command. Another component from get hub project fruity. See two for building stager and yet another hub project power shell empire for its agents. They may be derivative, but they are by no means, stumble, bums Talos calls them moderately, sophisticated and highly resourceful. And thinks that more threat actors will do likewise, in the future. Suppose you want to do some cybercrime, but your own technical skills aren't quite up to the task. There's a growing market for hackers for hire. Who would be more than willing to assist you for price the cyber wires to make a Smith has the story. Google and university of California San Diego conducted, a study analyzing and testing out the hacker for hire market. They created Email accounts, solely using honeypot g mail accounts created buyer personas, and started their search to solicit hackers who to talk more about this as Ari Amiri on, she's a PHD student at UC San Diego, where her research is on security and systems. And she served as the first author and lead researcher on this team. Thanks for joining the conversation Ariana. Thanks for having to make them glad to hear. So let's get into this study. How was it setup? We're interested in looking at the heck for higher market. And so that required us to go and find these underground advertisements, then somehow solicit their service into that. What that essentially means we needed to act as both the buyer and the victim. So we created fake online personas, because we wanted to make sure that no researchers were harmed in them making of the study in order to solicit this research. So as the buyer I created. Did an online persona which consisted of g mail address? And so we communicated with the services as the buyer either by emailing them or submitting an online form, really it was, however, the service advertised we should reach them. And then we created a victim, or some so the person who we wanted to hack into who's Jimmy Jamila company wanted to hack into the, the victim persona. The it was a more intricate because we didn't know what these attackers would do we didn't know what pieces of information they would use, and, you know, I haven't online footprint, most people who use the internet, heaven online footprint. And so we wanted to create this online footprint for these fake victims. We created a g mail adjust for them, but we also created a website, for example, that they reported to own or workout where we linked the g mail address we on the website. We also linked an additional g mail address in associate, which was another fake persona because we didn't know if the tax would use the associate to get. The victim. And then we also created a Facebook profile for the victim where everything was private. Except the about me section and on about me section. We linked the website of the victim persona. And so we engaged with them as the buyer and then at UCSD, we had set up some monitoring on each of the G Miller counts to record any changes. And also, Google colleague was able to see from the Google monitoring that they have what was happening in the g mail accounts. So this is very interesting. You guy set out to catfish, the hackers basically yeah, we really wanted to characterize this market and the best way to do that was to engage with them. So to see not only what attacks they would deploy on the victims. How do they engage with the buyers? Is this a legitimate business or would they just take our money and run? So this talk a little bit about how you engaged with them. They use sent out in created personas, but one thing that was very interesting. You did so in various Lang. Which is it turns out, a lot of those underground markets are not solely in English? And so actually a lot of the advertisements that we found were in Russian so we had twenty seven services that we ended up contacting believe, three of them were English. Advertisements one was a Chinese advertisement. And the rest are Russian in order to engage with them. We wanted to make sure that our messages seemed realistic. And so we essentially asked folks in our community who are native speakers of that language. So a native Russian speaker to help us craft emails in response to whatever they were telling us, so let's talk a little bit more about the technical side. How did you set it up set up the honeypot accounts, so that you would be able to track, what was going on and that they couldn't detect that they were being tracked? Yeah. So each G Miller count, that we created we essentially added this entity called a Google apps. Script whenever there was a change in the Jamila counts would trigger a notification to assert. Ver- that we controlled at UCSD the thing about these Google apps scripts is that in order to create them. You actually open up a Google doc, essentially, that's associated with the Google Drive. That is part of the count-. And then on one of the drop downs there is little Scripa in and then that takes to pop up where you can put in the script, and it's Java script. So it's a language that a lot of folks, no Incan program, or at least learn is this market viable in any weight. Yeah, that's a great question. This is a market, that is acceptable to a lot of, you know, average folks, the contracts that we hire anywhere from the one hundred four hundred dollar range since the end of our study actually, some of those prices have increased, but they are still a viable for someone who really wants to get into the Jamila account of whoever they target. However, since these are targeted attacks these don't necessarily scale as well. They don't scale as much should say as other attacks. I don't think it's a large scale threat is deaf. A threat to some users out there, but it's not a large scale threat, yet, there's definitely the possibility and this is all hypothesis that the attacks could change. So right now, the main attack vector that we saw was fishing, really well, crafted emails, that would then capture are passer are two factor code and mail has introduced some additional defenses to try and prevent against the sort of targeted attack. But as possible that in the future, these markets will change to adapt to the new defenses. So instead of fishing, maybe they'll deploy more malware. Thank you again, for joining the conversation. Thank you to make really appreciate it. She's a PHD student at UC San Diego, where she's researching security and systems. And on this basic research team. She serves as the first author end lead researcher, that's the cyber wires to make a Smith. Whoa. As chairman lingua accused the US of acting inappropriately toward his company, NPR reports. But then proffered dove with an olive branch, the same kind of no spy deal. Xinchang has dangled before Germany and the UK. This dove seems unlikely to fly in Washington, given always reputation with respect to nondisclosure agreements and partners. I p. Don't believe Microsoft about the importance of patching legacy versions of windows against the blue keep RDP vulnerability. Well, maybe you'll believe NSA central security service. They think you should patch too. The US government has released its draft data strategy federal agencies have until July fifth to submit comments. The strategy emphasizes three overarching principles at the co governance, conscious design and a learning culture. The strategy seems concern to identify relevant data and ensure their accuracy integrity and availability transparency and effort to restrain agencies from collecting information without a need to do so appear to be important points of emphasis. University of Chicago medicine has apparently left data of almost one point seven million donors and perspective owners exposed online security, discovery says the university secured the database and thanked the discoverers for the tip. And we close on a serious note America has lost another of the Naba Navajos code talkers, who served in the Pacific during the second World War. William telly Brown passed away, Monday in Winslow resort at the age of ninety six our condolences to his family and friends as he's laid to rest tomorrow. Will join the Marine Corps in its farewell Semper, Fidelis marine. Now it's time for a few words from our sponsor, blackberry. Silence. They're the people who protect our own end points here at the cyber wire. And you might consider seeing what blackberry. Silence. Can do for you. You probably know all about legacy antivirus protection. It's very good as far as it goes, would, you know what the bad guys know all about it, too? It will stop the skids. But to keep the savvier hoods hands off your end points. Blackberry silence. Thinks you need something better. Check out the latest version of silence optics it turns every endpoint into its own security operation center. Silence. Optics deploys, algorithms formed by machine learning to offer not only immediate protection. But security, that's quick enough to keep up with the threat by watching learning. An acting on systems behavior and resources whether you're worried about advanced malware, commodity, hacking or malicious insiders. Silence optics can help. Visit silence dot com to learn more and we thank blackberry. Silence for spot. Seraing our show. Joining me once again is Ben Yellen. He's a senior law and policy analyst at the university of Maryland center for health and homeland security, Ben, it's great to have you back. We had an article come by this military times. It's titled secret tracking device found in navy Email to navy times amid leak investigation raises legal and ethical questions. There's a lot to unpack here. Help us understand what's going on. So there's been this high profile court martial case about a navy seal being accused of potential war crimes arising out of an incident that took place in two thousand seventeen I believe the profile of this case has been risen significantly because the president of the United States has weighed in on this case publicly. What this article uncovered as that one of the prosecutors working for the United States, navy sent an Email to the navy times, which is, you know, has readership among members of the navy and other members of the military branches. And this. Journalism. Right. Right. So to a journalism outfit, and that Email was in bedded with a secret digital tracking device. So it's unclear it doesn't seem like this device was any sort of type of malware didn't reveal any information, personal information that was on the computers of the journalists who work for the navy times. But it did try or at least a tempted to collect meta data from those devices, it was attempting to identify potential leaks arising out of this case, and to do, so it was trying to identify the IP addresses being used by navy times accounts. Right. It was transmitting that information to add navy database in California. This causes a lot of potential legal problems from my perspective, the electron of communications Privacy, Act requires generally either a warrant or some sort of legal subpoena to use any type of device electron IQ or. Or otherwise that would reveal meta data from a private individuals account. Again, these people are not members of our more, we're talking about journalists. They're not members of the armed forces. They are private individuals subject to our constitutional rights now because this is the military. It's being conducted from the navy prosecutor's office were not privy to a lot of the information, that's gone into this investigation and from what they're saying. The prosecutor has complied with all laws and statutes regarding electronic communications and privacy this, at least to my I you know, it's not something that you could prove one way or the other without additional information. And there's always the risk. I'm not sure how this would play out in military court that the conviction of this individual accused of war crimes could be jeopardized. If some of the information used in a potential trial, or in the prosecution was obtained through. Eagle means that evidence could potentially be suppressed. And then as we see in millions of other criminal cases, that could be the factor that causes the acquittal of that criminal suspect. So engaging in these techniques presents really dangerous risk for the general public and for the prosecutors who are trying to secure the conviction when this was brought to their attention to the folks who had installed this Email tracker. What was their response? So the prosecutor himself through his office declined to comment. But the navy through its spokesman said quite vociferiously that all investigations coming from this prosecutor's office are conducted quote in accordance with the political laws properly, coordinated and executed with appropriate oversight. The navy is saying that they're complying with all laws and regulations, even though the prosecutor's office itself, which is the one that sent emails with these tracking device. Ices and the not only sent them to media sources, but also to members of the defenses legal team that prosecutors climbed to comment. Get seems like an unfortunate distraction. We have this serious case that could be taken off the rails, potentially by this issue. Right. We're talking about something that's literally life, and death and the defense already filed motions to have the entire case dismissed based on this on lawful surveillance, which would be an absolute disaster from the perspective of the navy prosecutor. The reason we have the exclusionary rule in place in our court system is to prevent law enforcement to give them a disincentive to break laws, and how they conduct investigations and surveillance. So if they haven't dotted the is and crossed the TS in terms of making sure that these techniques are legal and they're certainly questions as to whether they've done that then they're not only jeopardizing this particular prosecution. But the reputation itself of this. Prosecutor's office could have very damaging effects down the line. All right. Ben yell, and thanks for joining us. Thank you, a quick update since Benon, I recorded this segment a military judge removed that lead prosecutor from the case, the defense had asked the judge to dismiss the case or remove the prosecutors because of the Email tracking and the judge had the prosecutor removed. And that's the cyber wire. Thanks to all of our sponsors for making the cyber wire possible, especially are supporting sponsor observe it the leading insider threat management platform. Learn more at observant dot com. The cyber wire podcast is proudly produced in Maryland out of the startup studios of data tribe, with their co building the next generation of cybersecurity teams and technology are cyber wire editor is John Patrick social media, editor, Jennifer, Ivan technical editor Chris Russell, our staff writer is Tim. No, Dr executive editor, Peter Kilby. And I'm Dave bittner? Thanks for listening.

Google prosecutor United States San Diego navy Jimmy Jamila Baltimore Maryland UCSD blackberry AMC Ben Yellen researcher Smith congress Dave Vitner Frankenstein analyst
Episode 108- Deniz Burnham and flying EVERYTHING

Cloudbase Mayhem Podcast

49:20 min | 1 year ago

Episode 108- Deniz Burnham and flying EVERYTHING

"Talk the higher everybody. Welcome to another episode of the cloud. Base may him. We are trying to venture of out of our kind of Typical show with paragliding next. See a little bit of Acro and trying to talk to people who have very different backgrounds and flying different aircraft. This this is certainly no exception and this talk. I speak to Denise Burnham who's on Alaska resident and she works on oil rigs all over the world right now. Oh she's on a two week rotation down in Texas working on a gas rig but she runs the rig. She's the only female that that is on that rig which is fascinating but she's a chemical engineer by education and she flies everything helicopters sea plane sailplans param odors paragliders. Hang bladders so has a real interest. Obviously in aviation and this was just a fascinating talk with a very very fascinating person I think. Enjoy it little bit housekeeping before we get into the talk. I don't have a ton of stuff but remember that I were having a little thing for those who share share the show will be put into a pot and I'll do a little grab bag for Patagonia big Patagonia discounts. And also. We've got a couple of blue flies areas left from Alistair. GimMe some of these couple years back and got a couple of those so please share the show with your friends or put it out on social media or just talk about it on the way to launch. Let me know you've done so we'll put your name in a in a sack in withdraw from that sometime early January happy holidays everybody and hope you enjoyed the show cheers. Don't go for young things. So I this denise. Welcome to the cloud base mayhem been really excited to talk to you. I was just fascinated to follow you recently. on on instagram a friend of yours reached out and said you gotta check this girl out and see what she's doing and I thought an interesting place to start. We just had this kind of long conversation about if some of your history and education and work but if you and I were sitting at a party and we've never been we'd never met we didn't know each other and I said hey what do you do. How do you answer that? Because you've got background. Thanks I think a dis- kind of normally tell people I just work on oil and gas industry is kind of taken me some really promote locations Like I spend years in the Arctic. I've worked in Cana in a in some other places throughout the US and But my background itself is engineering. And you you you have quite a a unique position on these racial right now. You're down in Texas. Is that right. You're drilling for gas. Nannies Texas okay. So and you're schedules. You're saying it's two weeks Sean. Two weeks off. And you live in Alaska. So that's that's a lot of travel a lot of travel. Yeah I'm definitely gone more than six and a half of the year because the troubled troubled as count against the. And how long you've been doing this. It's been about ten years now and so case so you said when we were talking before the we started recording you went to USC and UCSD CAL- California. Was this kind of on your radar can into oil and gas no not at all. I studied chemical engineering at. UCSD are so. Biotech is huge in San Diego. So that's kind of where I had focused my our nine internships on alternative energy or a little bit of stem cell research but it was just one of those opportunities I got to be interviewed in. Bakersfield will end as the first time I've ever even seen an oil rig and they made a job offer to me to go to Brazil and being from San Diego super excited the and of course I was like Oh heck out you know I'm GonNa Start Up to that. And then they sent me to Arctic crazy Amin what what was the catalyst for the flying the discount from your parents and to find they'd be lurking to be fascinated to learn all the things you do fly so we'll get into the various aircraft you fly but when did that all happen. Both both my parents were in the military but neither one of them was a pilot. I guess I just from very young age had like a true love of Aviation Withdrawal Raleigh little pictures of helicopters Getting to go to school in San Diego. Of course there's Torrey Pines Rather La Hoya in. I remember remember seeing stuff but of course you know you can't afford it so you just kind of watched people do things But I've always had that desire. I started actually flying at the local aeroclub on base. Yeah no seven teen so I got a taste of it and I knew I loved it but most of the other types of flight. I just got the cuddle. Watch people doing it until I knew. I had a dedicate the time and the the resources and Wallace I so gone my fixed-wing license I that was about ten years ago are in California and so that was just a single winded land and so this is when you were going to school So that was right after school and then I I kind of like to try a lot of things and unfortunately sometimes try something and then I'll come back years and years later and finish it so I kind of dabbled around in a couple of things. That's kind of the first time I tried Helicopters offers but it was you know helicopters are quite expensive to fly and inquires a big time commitment and when I was working Arctic. I didn't actually have a normal rotation Shinzo I would work for sometimes six straight on get three days off and obviously when you're in the Arctic. There's you're working right you're on a rig. There's nothing else to be you there so you would kind of talk to other people maybe hear about something and you just Kinda take a little mental But I kind of the the next thing I remember doing doing is kind of like I tried accelerated freefall skydiving. So I I went down that path a little bit and then I actually went and did the hang-gliding Alabama and Then I kind of I kind of learned that periodic backwards I win and I learned how to fly para her motor first and then I did paragliding and then we ended my seaplane rating than helicopter. Licensed Alaska so a lot of people. All I know out in the Mid West. There's a lot there we get unpacked. But I can't believe ow awesome. I mean it's also great. You fly all these things without the you. You got to find helicopters on your own you know. Most people have to go through either military training. Or you know it's expensive. Aren't how to fly a helicopter. Misunderstand I understand you've done all this through your job for sure so I did all this Just kind of self-funded working on a rotating schedule also in my days off. I would go and say okay. I'm going to focus on this one area and so You know for instance for the helicopter took me several rotation dried so I had to probably do it over the course of six or seven months whereas some of the other stuff Promoters I was able to do it in in just one of those days off rotations. And do you own like do you own your own sea plane or how does that. How do you get any get hours so a lot of this stuff like helicopters? Here's a once you get your license through school. Go normally let you rent it through them. So I've done it that way. So renting it through the people that I learned from or You know there's some little clubs you can join like aero clubs or something like that but I do own my own paraglider and that's so I know a lot of people learned para motoring I and that's not that unique there on the mid West and there aren't mountains to hop off but it's always. Yeah that's always scared me. The first paramount I flew is actually up in Alaska with my Buddy Kenny up there and it just terrified me. I just I felt so out of control. Troll and heavens was just really. I've never really gotten into paramount during but how do you learn how to paramount or repaired. Lied I've I've never really understood that I mean first of all one hundred percent agree with you. Something about the takeoffs itself might yet there's no way you can make that look good I mean even the guys there they really do it professionally. That gray taken off is just. It's kind of weird little steps and it. We'll also have so much thrust with pushing your hips forward. So in a way like say there's really no cool way to take off but it is really pointing to think developed makes me laugh. I had a really good instructor. His name is Joe Cruise. He's a he was out of valley springs and like he did it very because he's actually flies preflight as well as the pair motors so he does like the Water itself and he's very talented pilot. So he kind of progressively like the one thing he always threats like you've got to know how to Kaija wing so everybody learns just gotTa learn how to fight the paraglider and then and They had like a winch. They would kind of toe you with just the paraglider because they wanted you to get used to having are getting pulled from the waist a little bit Remember how when you're getting the motors on exactly you're getting pushed with her. Your hips forward in any kind of let you kind of have you do. Dry Veyron with the the paramour itself so of course you know. This is a lot of ground handling a lot of training on the ground. The pair motored self-control heavy and I actually. I found it quite heavy for launching and stuff like that but especially when you're carrying a lot of fuel so yeah I mean I remember to the first time you actually take off. You're just like oh my gosh like there's no way over magical. You're in the air but I've learned on some hard lessons too right like I learned when an instructor tells you don't jump. I learned that the hard way unfortunately like one of the Times where you kind of feel like okay I. Yeah I know I got enough speed. I'm just GonNa you know like do a little hop in no like you come crashing down and it's pretty brutal right because you have like seventy pounds on your back with its impressing you into the ground. You just Kinda lay there just ashamed. Yeah yes if you you ever had any actions flying all these different apparatus. Current knock on wood. No I haven't You know especially actually I would hang gliding and stuff like that. I've had a little bit of maybe a little bit of rough landings and stuff like that but thankfully most things in the air kind of fly the same way so it's always take off and landing that makes it really unique. Something you're doing is is very foreign to me. You're you're flying all these different things. You're also working pretty hard so you can't leave that much time to really devote to one thing and I I got an paragliding that was it. My life just became paragliding. I I am. I stopped doing a lot of other things probably did all those other things detriment for sure. But how do you how do you kind of approach. Maintaining -taining security and flight by. How do you approach? You know. You're you're probably not getting enough hours to stay super proficient as to how. How does your approach approach Berry when only jumping a sailplane jumping helicopter go fly hang glider? Yeah how do you broach all that that that side of things so stuff like the helicopter. Airplanes seaplanes as a federal licenses. They actually have like a sense. currency Frenchie requirements. But because you're renting it grew school. They have their own currency requirements. Right so something like that You you know helicopter helicopter to me was the most expensive and I kind of feel like Consequence wise like I think it's quite easy to get killed doing it If you're not careful careful because you literally cannot control met so I feel like if I take a little bit too much time off always like there's no ego in this aviation right go go instructor. get checked out again. Make sure you're comfortable practice. Auto rotations a use commonsense. Right like I never just say I don't take a month or two off something. Say Okay I'm just GonNa go wing like that's crazy. I always say like for instance when I took my gear. 'cause I got my gear here in Santa Barbara for the paragliding so to Europe to Alaska I went infound like local pilots. And I got a site orientation in I. I just don't care to pay somebody to come. Hey do you mind. Just walk me through. It's been a little while or just get a refresher that way and then I kind of go off and do my own thing but always always as I make sure that uncomfortable I Because you can pay with your life for sure. That's that's like I think of it in terms of currency will will any of these endeavors. Do you ever see any of them becoming commercial or these will just stay journey recreational activities. I mean in terms of like my hours. I definitely have enough hours between helicopters and fixed-wing I to pursue the commercial license. But you know I could be wrong long this kind of how I feel like I never wanted to paint my love because it was just like for me. It's A. It's a hobby enjoyed so much and I kind of feel like if somebody was paying you to do it will. Now it becomes an you'd have to Kinda see how I fly right. 'cause I I kinda just characters or a missile flying. Somebody's paying you money. You're GonNa be like what are you doing so I kind of like keeping his separate. I kind of like getting to express myself through flying that I kind of feel like it would be affected. It's I I was paid. Where are you based? So I'm actually an Alaska resident but you know I travel every two weeks or so. You're you're you're near Anchorage it's our north. Yeah is you're flying site then how hatcher pass right. Yeah actually fly site okay. So see planes helicopters hang gliders para motors paragliders. What's your favorite? If I missed any there you instilling in terms of all the licenses. That's what I have but I have a all the check ride for that sailplane. So for gliders sailboat into I just truly enjoy the learning process test yourself rikers. I'm not somebody that's sitting there breaking records or anything like that to me is is like cluttered. The pursuit of the knowledge. Intestine yourself like seeing. Hey can I do this or you know not everything I do. I'm I'm not like amazing everything right. I'm I'm okay L.. In terms of like my favorite like I've I've been obsessed with helicopters since I was a little girl so when I got that license I was just so thrilled rolled and You Know My. I told me that I had started when I was Kind of right around. Got My swing license but it was one of those that it was expensive wanted. I couldn't really dedicate the time so I always wanted it but I had to really wait a long time to to get that and I was just so thrilled accomplish infamy like taking it back and doing it in Alaska scores really special to so helicopters are your favorite in terms of like the amount of effort in like I spent so much time and energy and thought thought goes into learning on the fly in but out of all of those are hang gliding was only one. That's ever made me emotional in terms of like I literally like the first first time law shop lookout mountain. I was crying so it was just a pure flying. Yeah and I think being prone is pretty special. You know you're like Bergeres. Here's which one of those do you kind of have the most respect for. Maybe the most fear for like with the helicopters. Also say the type of helicopter. I fly right because it's It's our twenty two right so there's a lot that can go wrong. You're not careful you know some of the stuff like in a fixed wing We have a lot of hours. You can get a little bit complacent right. You can like trim it out can take your hands off the controls for a second if if you need to do stuff like that in helicopters. I mean it's like requires vigilance because any Event of emergency one point two seconds direct reactive at that collected down sounds interesting and then as you go up now food You're kind of time. Window starts shrinking so in terms of like you always feel like oh my gosh. Like he can't really like you enjoy it. But you can't do it too much but I've always enjoyed solo fly para motor paragliders to me the launch has always felt a little bit different. Like I've seen some people do some crazy things where I thought like holy spokes person going to survive the launch or use kind of poor decisions sometimes where people. But maybe you're launching out of you know you just as an observer or sometimes you're just like I can't believe somebody's watching those conditions. Everybody has their different. I guess threshold skill said Yeah thresholds department uncomfortable but purolator launching to me. I always found on that very different compared to the others a denise for the entertainment of our listeners. I think probably a lot of people don't know about on a rotation it's it fascinating to me. Just incredibly scary so describe what act was what an auto rotation helicopter entails so so essentially. It's like if you have an engine failure or something like that right because now you picture like a pinwheel. Remember those little things as a kid. You'd have it new glow on it. So the whole point of automation is you gotTA keep that main rotor spinning right so You're you're having to manage between your collected in your cycling so you have worn. That's collectively changing the pitch of the blades and the other one. That's Kinda like cycling through So you're trying to manage that energy to make sure that taping the main blade spinning. And you have like a little RPM threshold there because obviously you can't over speed the rotor but you also if it slows goes on too much It can it becomes from that. You can't recover from right. So you're bleeds controller core. Pinecone happen like that. And you just. You'RE GONNA fall a refrigerator at that point but Yeah self this super talented pilots out there that can enter it from conditions that most of US probably couldn't most of us Do you know like when you're getting your private licenses like that like you're kind of entering it from always like a standard set conditions pay. You're already have a Ford Air. Speed of like he does sixty knots. Or something like that in your just trying to maintain your air speed. Because you're gonNA have to need. We need an energy at the bottom of flare too. Because you can imagine like that's it. You don't have power our you're just coming down and then you're GONNA flare set the helicopter down but interstates and stuff like that. Look I can't speak for overseas. I'm not sure You actually they don't train you in those schools to do full set down. Autos it's something that you do recover at the very end crazy. The way you're describing I think s I v with with paragliding and when we go and go to a course and take heavy and you're taking it in perfect conditions. It's not combat. You know it's it's You know it's over the the water was you're telling everything to do and I think the people often forget that when it happens in real life. It's a little different but that's is so important to practice here. You're hoping that the muscle memory over stops. You probably wouldn't even have time to think about so when you're flying a helicopter how much how many auto rotations are doing a year. I mean there's no standard like that is something that like. For instance if it's your solo in you're renting somebody else's stuff. They actually wouldn't allow you to go do that on your own. Their expectation is that going to respect their decision to the right. Because it's a minimum quarter million dollar machine. It's obviously don't want you to kill yourself. But they also have to break destroy their machine. Yeah so yeah. It's something that like. Whenever if I'm going solo flying and stuff like that it's great but always make sure PRAC authorizations with an instructor before I go up because in the adventure by herself like what are you GonNa do right. You gotta you gotTa make sure you could save yourself. Are you traveling a lot to fly or these days because you're working so much in those two weeks sof you just mostly going home and fine at home so a lot of these licences have been kind of spread out like I used to love traveling to go learn something new you because I would like local do of my research online and so k where do I think go gets good instruction so like you know hang gliding was in local mountain. The promoters was in California in Northern California. The paragliding itself was in Santa Barbara helicopters. Alaska main I did the planes and then the took swing. I did in California so I used to be totally willing to go out live in travel for it but I do find now that I don't like to do as much like now take my wings somewhere in Like as far as paragliding those fly locally and hunters past Other than that like helicopters. I've done it in California too. It's just because it's like kind of where you can go out there. They're spied schools throughout the country. That you can go in either rent their equipment or or whatever is it's a lot easier than have takes up with you. How is how is flying? I mean usually I would say you know house paragliding hang gliding. Change Your Life but with USA's flying how has flying line change your life so for me. It was kind of maybe a confidence thing are so because I studied you. You know chemical engineering. UCSD it was very like. I spent a lot of time. Just kind of focusing on schoolwork and then I got thrust into do like a predominantly male dominated industry with oil and gas industry and I was in a remote location so for me like it was the number one hundred escape away to kind of serve daydream. A little bit and kind of picture. going out and doing things I've always wanted but it's also like to accomplish certain things right gain more and more confidence Gordon. You kinda makes you a safer pilot. But that's where I got. I wasn't always like dressing up in costumes that it was something that I've got more confidence and KINDA NFL like okay. It's not going to distract me from actually flying the aircraft or whatever it is I'm doing but that's actually how I started off. There was like a film intestinal in northern California. It was probably about six or seven years ago and it was like a free flight film festival and like the what I made made for that entry. was I called it overcoming. Fear so I made different characters that I would say like okay. If you're afraid to go tackle something yourself create a character victor and have them go tackle it for years so I I made like two characters. One female was a man and the female was based off of like one of my favorite songs at the time. I'm like a chandelier songs. Like there is a certain way the girl dressed in the video with like a ballerina outfit to. That's kind of what I did was like and super super embarrassing looking back on it but for the guy it was kind of my way of expressing like having always been surrounded in that kind of industry or even like with so much flight instruction. It's almost predominately men teaching you so it was kind of my way of poking fun at always having you. I get that feeling of like people. Expect you to be one of the guys and stuff like that so I kind of made those characters like one just for that video by the way I learned how to do the Para Motors and I did it as the girl you know as disagree Ballerina unstop which was super funny because I can tell you. Falling Down entites is not a good retire we I had some pretty gnarly grass stains and everything else and Yet I mean that's kind of how I I started off like. I didn't really know how to articulate the way I was feeling Sol's. PM Just GonNa do performance art so for me. It's like a big confidence boost. I think is performance. Formats are something you've done before you've mentioned this costume day a couple times. I should probably take you down. Lb Yeah I just I guess yes I never really whenever I kind of share stuff like I should say that I put a lot of time and effort into Festival submission in that film actually got cancelled that year. So I never I never got to like show anybody so I was like. Oh man like the super disappointing. But I was like okay. I'M GONNA just post it on Youtube and see what happens and of course people were trying to earn what is so. It was kind of a good experience here. Because it's like the expectation expectation versus reality. Just because you put a lot of effort into something It's sometimes difficult to portrayed others which are actually thinking feelings. I don't really like to talk a lot. I just kind of preferred preferred Action Speaker itself in terms of the flying learned. Something from that. I have submitted again. And and I actually got to the show. One of my films at one of those home festivals maybe a year or so later and you know he did okay but like honestly like I got to see. How other people's take on stuff wasn't smokes cap? Yeah definitely do in the bazaar route. I don't know how else to describe it because I was just trying to to show. Maybe this different perspective. Obviously there's some super high skill level pilots out there that are doing absolutely crazy thing quizzing visually whereas for me was more like okay. I can't do that but I can. You know if I still have a right dissipate. I'm going participate at my own level. I'm not gonNA take the series but I'm going to do something that I think it's Kinda funny and that was kind of always my goal with this man you know maybe at least I can make people laugh. If you've been saying Hilar- Dr for Cooper car no I have it would be the best entry there you've probably seen videos of it in pictures and that kind of thing but I mean everybody dresses up. Thousands concern thousands of people as the biggest festival in paragliding but free lemonade. They have ballooning acro- the and hang gliding everything. But it's the it's the biggest investable in the world flying every year since September and it's a hoot and you should if you liked dressing up you'd you'd love it just terrific. People do some amazing like fifty foot foot long dragons and just fantastic stuff you know eating wine and breeze they're flying around and it's it's good. It's very entertaining. Okay so the rig What do you think it is about you and your personality your you are definitely partaking partaking? Not only in your recreational time but in business time in very male dominated things We were talking before we started recording. That you're you run the rigs at right yes so As a website leader so overseeing all the drilling operation will and you're in your position they're they're divided change. Change this I think is you're in it but you're called a what man or something. So traditionally known as a company man has this kind of behavior title is But now it's more so like well site leader or discounted other companies. Call it different things maybe drilling manager or something like that and with satellite being in that position as a as a female. I mean I don't need to get into the sexiest stuff too much. But it's I mean I imagine that's pretty tricky or you're you said you're the only female I'm on the rig right online for sure. Yeah I mean it's something that I think when I was younger. Of course. The experiences were A lot different. Because when you've never seen something before obviously you have the knowledge. Gap is huge right. You have so much Sean. Learn so you kind of feel intimidated too because you know it's it's a different culture. It's kind of hard explain. It never been around it but the expectations thinks people can be kinda rough to each other terms of how they talk or anything like that and you know when you're destroyed out of college and like I said you've never seen before in somebody's talking to you certainly away. You're just Kinda like horrified and you're just super upset but you kinda like okay like I would just kind of be quiet and I was like okay like any to study a lot and make sure that I have to do my best clothes knowledge gap near what else can you do. I don't think quitting is always the right answer. It's just because you face hardship. You know what I mean like. It's like okay. It's a hard industry. I mean it's it's a modern prison. It's voluntary so like I F- obviously like you know if I chose the beer I can't complain so It was one of those things where I was going. I'm GONNA suck it up. I'm going to study and just make sure that I just learn something new every day and I kind of take my hobbies insane way. Is it enjoyable. Being on the rig I mean is it something that you know when you're having these two weeks off like you are now You you're going back tomorrow. Is that right. Yeah we find that are. I've I've done a long time so I think I don't. I don't always get the same. Like fear factor or anything. Like that like. You're just kind of more focused on accomplishing the task. And you want everybody to be saved and you know you want to do well because we all we all kind of exist. We get to operate as long as we're doing. I'm good job so it's Kinda like a lot of different pressure. Drive is not just a technology or or people management or anything like that. You know it's also financial so you have to make sure that you're not overspending budgets. Earning that is are you always on land-based rigs or both motion and land so my experience in the lower forty-eight like that's always been on lands in Alaska I did get to go out to the sea. They had a manmade island there. Those really different different but because it freezes you would like drive out her. You said that hang gliding was the one kind of form of aviation you undertook. That really made you super emotional of talk about that a little bit more. Yeah so I learned how to fly in McCallum. And I'm not sure if you've ever seen what their ramp looks like but it's pretty gnarly it's And I think now like maybe this his last year so they started allowing paraglider pilots to start flying there as well but when I learned back then it was only for lighters and so they kind of train new is everything I guess the training starts similarly start on small hills and kind of progressively. Work your way up but he kind of go from like you know maybe fifty foot to maybe like one hundred or one hundred fifty foot in the next thing you know you're like in the thousands range because they say it all kind of the same. There's no point kind of taking more increments than that So I remember doing the training and then going up that launch site now with like holy smokes like it was so steep it was so cold. it was in maybe January. I don't know how long it's been. Now maybe seven or eight years ago Am I remember. My mom was with me you know. She was horrified when she saw Iran. I remember some you hang gliders right you had to kind of set it up and tear down every time to like I was setting it up and it takes about fifteen twenty minutes or so so I'm kind of side there and I could hear my mom killing that instructor. She like look. I don't think denise supplied today shoes so scared like this is just such breathtaking. It's gorgeous area are you. You know for those of you. That don't know it but if you definitely just take time to look it up. It's pretty shocking. Yeah so like I was kinda nervous when I hear my mom saying that and I was like holy smokes. You know. Arabi shouldn't do it but I remember like I kind of set it up and then of course in in Chuck China offering encouragement to but the only other experiences. I ahead up to that point. Look ahead done than skydiving ahead. Done you know. Had My fixing licensed stuff like that but when I actually took those steps and then is just such a sheer sheer. Drop off the ramp. I remember when it when you actually hanging your straps. They're like Oh my God like you're so relieved Steve but just overwhelmed or at least I was I was so I had thought about it for such a long time. You know in San Diego seeing being the hang glider pilots. Poor Pines always got to watch people. I thought about for such a long time and finally getting to do it myself but I was like. Oh my oh gosh I can do this and it was just such a beautiful flight to I mean it was definitely even though you're up so high like it was still you know a sweater on because they chose like a super calm day if your first time you launch and I remember just kind of a flying and kind of taking the hands off and they want you to kind of find the trim. I like that or just kind of play around with it a little bit. They give you like simple tasks and I was just really in such a out of all the things I've done like there's a few things that really stuck in my brain and that's one of them is just the kind of first time launching off that ran. Do you think that's ever. That feeling is something you can have again because it you hear from people all the time and I'm certainly one of these people as well that in some ways our flying in careers are always chasing that first flight. That sensation is indescribable for sure. I wonder if that makes some people take take more risks to get that feeling than kind of found that for me I spent a long time to thinking about like okay because because I don't get to do this every day. I have to be a little bit more cautious. I always try to be a very cautious pilots or anything that I do but you know getting to fly like the helicopter solo and stuff like that. That was such a wonderful experience tube because I've always been obsessed with it but I remember like there is no time for tears like you. Don't get to just fine tramp pick your hands if nothing like trade like it was such a intense feeling like I was really excited and happy but you feel it more like after the fact rather than didn't like while you're doing it or you feel like super anxious before 'cause you're just like instructor pilot until the Okay you want to hop Now you'RE GONNA go solar folks I do remember my first. Solos Solos for fixed wing and stuff like that too but it was one of those things where you're like you're a little bit anxious but you're so focused on the task at hand 'cause they have you do something very specific like okay. You're going to go flying a pattern at the airport three times in Nassar purcell whereas with hang gliding. Letting you know I mean you're you're kinda like everybody else like. It's maybe hard identified her Solo. Obviously you know you could maybe let me tell from the type of glider persons flying. It's more of a beginner slider or something but you know it's I think it's harder identify. Because you're you're just like the the person next to view whereas in the airplane nobody else do sitting there. Circling the patterns like that Define fine goals and ambitions and I have thought about for me. It's no longer about like accumulating ratings or certificates. It gets or anything like that. It's it's not bad interesting for me like I've I've tried certain things Like I've done wing walking wing got the 'til drager. drager endorsements flown in some embiid amphibious plans so at this point in my life I like to go try different things and I'm I'm still. I'm searching for something I don't know like before I commit to purchasing something. I kind of feel like what is out there but I do want to in the near future kind of own my own aircraft breath but other than that I like I like to just make little kind of silly videos and kind of the desire to make people laugh right is still going to be something light hearted for me. Do you have other hobbies tours flying. You're you're kind of biggest hobby skeeve D- d- do other stuff up in Alaska. That's not flying based. Yeah for sure her like a key mind like flying take-up majority of my time just because I've invested so much time into you know how many years down ten twelve years I do have a couple motorcycles. In addition to that like I can ski. You know I went to high school in Northern California so as near Tahoe so like like the military would have buses in south. That could like bus. You up there and so there's some other stuff that I can do but I would say like blinded allowing described. Do definitely the best all the places. You've flown what's your favorite. Well like last good has always been on kind of a special special place to fly There's such big aviation community up there. I love seeing the mountains. Like it's really something that I guess like one of my favorites sola fide says he's going in and flying in the mountains are even with the plans itself. I just go landing in a random lakes under dishes so much opportunity for flying up there in the scale of the mountains and zero humbling. It's Big Alaskans. Just big yeah. It's in it's crazy tunes it's like you. Es such a small population right. It's it's got more coastline than the entire lower lower forty-eight combined that amazing yeah it's crazy. There's a huge so vast. It's really hard I very I struggled. We struggled with that in making the film there north of known film that we did in the Alaska range. It was it was. It's hard to articulate just the scope of it just makes you feel really really. I've spent a lot of time at sea. Which makes you feel very small but some about those mountains? Some about that stays just. It's just big huge. Yeah for sure to questions to wrap us up. What's spend a biggest challenge of your fine career and then the second one what's been the biggest challenge of your professional career in terms of the flying itself? I I'd say the greatest challenges that I faced was And we touched on at some right like I spent so much time away balancing bouncing the hobbies interests. Like there's a give and take right. Something's always going to suffer and sometimes You have to pick and choose like there's certain things I don't ever WanNa let Kinda crumble right like I spent so much time and money on the helicopter. I just kind of feel like in a way kind of keep that current so yeah I mean the because I have to balance my my work in life Nice My hobbies like that and I've always had to do it without the time off I think my biggest challenge is just finding the time it to dedicate to anything without getting burnt out and professionally. You Know I. I did my master's while working full time. You know there's a lot of responsibility as you kind of move up to where you're operating and I'd say I guess the the biggest challenge itself he's like you you're pulled in so many directions you want to do a really good job. You want the people because they kind of become your brothers in a way like you seeing these same people just this gives you an idea. People Work Minimum Twelve hour shifts. And you're working for two extremely spent a Lotta time together with the cruise so you see them like your brothers you want them to stay safe or to you. Want to do a good job. So you're you're pulled in different directions so in terms of multitasking like that always comes to the forefront right so I'd say professionally like Juggling Juggling so many things at once I it's just like private life right like it's always give and take right trend. Something always wants your attention negotiation. Yeah for sure. I'm always grateful for the opportunities that I've been given right like if I'm given an opportunity I try to do. A good job is in. You hope that it opens the door for others that come behind you right that it's men or woman. I don't WanNa make it seem like Just one sided riot. Like I'm grateful for any young person to be given an opportunity and and Hopefully by doing an honorable job and you make that available to others. Turn my main point of flying in stuff I had to like I came. I guess we're really different because I'm not like is accomplished like record holder. Nothing like that mine was more like the ability to share with others when you spend so much time in remote locations. I think that was mostly. My Hope. Rides is like reaching out the people wider audience. I've had I think what's what's giving me the most joy to sharing the flying adventures with people that maybe have never tried it before I because you're not necessarily going to impress somebody that that's done at all but Somebody that hasn't been in maybe inspired they go big into go. Try it or that's kind of what makes me happy things like number one. I do enjoy when somebody gets a good laugh out of it because it's meant to be light hearted but sometimes people riding they say hey like they want to learn more about like for some reason. People are super fascinated by parallel. There's so I always want to reach out to you. How do you get into that or whatever and I kinda love that the knowledge sharing but it's what keeps the sports alive to write? Lower keeps the hobbies alive or or whatever right like I'm always afraid of hang gliding going away. 'cause that's one thing that I don't really see much in Alaska in I do want to Take Hang Glider up there and and you know Kinda keep doing my little solo flying and stuff like that but I'm most afraid of that stuff is vanishing one day in like what a shame it would be because there's so many people that came before is that took those risks develop. It just seems like a sad way to die off. Yeah Great Talk Talk in the last show with Larry Buehner. They did this X.. Flight Expedition from the Gulf of Mexico up to Canada the Canadian border and series of flights where they were there was car supported order but they all the south north. It was all done in the air so the they could move laterally but they had to fly if they were going north and is awesome. Ask Talk it was really fascinating in May but it also made me realize how much knowledge they all have when I was doing the Alaska traverse one of the I took off above the road goes through between then Denali off on your left off. You can't well and then just beyond me while there's a little tiny village that's kind of where a lot of people kinda amount. They've stay before they go into. The park can't remember that little little tiny village there and they have a pizza place. Anyway I was holed up there and really bad weather for quite a few days and then I took off. Were I kind of started going in. After Dave left I took off from it was like Panorama appeak or something. And you're up there and you're like there's no way anybody's ever flown from here before and hang gliders were using it back in the seventies go up there in flying off and it you love special at all these guys they were up your decades ago. It's just there's a lot of knowledge there that Edo that were slowly losing. Yeah for sure not yet we got gotta keep got to keep the hanging hanging. He's alive for sure not the not the people that sport didn't general ride like it's something that It something that I noticed too with a guy when you share snuff either on social media or whatever like a lot of people that have been through. It can't relate to the effort or skill skill or whatever it is right like The demand to and that's something that I really feel strongly about is like try to those different types of things if it gets too much like negatively or positively. I actually ignore extremes because Totally kills her creativity. Like if you're always getting crazed the near you're always keep doing the same thing like the kind of the outliers to the super negative people like okay. They're not really contributing their dislike. Why is it like what is it making them so negative so it's already been tell slumped if you talk to a person or bought But yeah just generally. That's been my experiences like I kind of feel like my contribution or way of paying Ford is at least try to keep the interest alive in some of this stuff or If I go out the small little glider porch or whatever it is at least giving shout out them or something and hoping that others will Kind of reach out because most of what I do right as general aviation and even that had is always you know you hear about time-to-time risk of dying out or declined as so as always been my fear right. It's it's such a it don't so much individuals Dell's Yeah it really does Or the fascinating talking with you. You're a fascinating person. I hope I get to see you. In cost him one of these days the flying around that sounds like a lot of fun and thanks for sharing your stories with us. I really appreciate it. Thank you bye bye. 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Alaska US instructor California San Diego Arctic UCSD Texas Denise Burnham Sean Santa Barbara Bakersfield Mid West Northern California USC Torrey Pines