20 Episode results for "Tyrian"

#WhoWouldWin: Chucky vs Tyrion Lannister

#WhoWouldWin

1:08:54 hr | 2 years ago

#WhoWouldWin: Chucky vs Tyrion Lannister

"After a night of drinking and gallivanting about the town Tyrian Lancaster was ready to enjoy some slumber, barely noticing the strange doll in the corner of his room. He dropped into bed four, but a mere instant immediately piecing together that something was very wrong. He left back up in grabbed his blade. It was then that Chucky the plastic murderer sprang to life. And with a hi-de-ho grabbed a blade to kill for the simple pleasure of it all. It's the IMF versus the killer doll. It's the hand of the Queen versus the lakeshore strangler. It's Terry Lancaster versus Chucky today. And welcome to another episode of who would win. I show that completely ignores anything important happening in the world. And instead, focuses on a fictional battle between two characters from the worlds of comic scifi and fantasy. I'm your host James Gabby and is always, I'm joined by my co host race Aquinas. Ray how're you feeling these days? I'm hurting a little bit only because I feel a little robbed after the general grievous battle. I'm not gonna lie. This one's going to stick with me for just a little bit general grievous versus blade. An excellent fan suggested. And I want to do what's right for the fans absolutely that I could possibly lose that battle. When I've got four lightsabres on my side against against fan pyre, dude. I'm just I'm it's a little sour and I hope to write that ship today. Do do you feel like you know, the fact that you lost that kind of represents your everyday life? You try hard. But it just doesn't happen for you. Like you seem to be falling short a lot, given my record in these battles, especially. When you take into account take out all the nonsense battles that you won my record is very, very strong. So I would disagree with that statement on its base is strong. If you take out how let's see how good your masculine are. If you took out all the battles, I one, which are the majority, by the way, what's your record? It's very, very good. It is right? It's almost perfect near near. All right. Great. We're off to a great start to show whenever we bring math into the equation. Joining us is a judge is a writer, director and performer Joseph Pleasants Joseph. Thanks for being on the who'd wind show. Tell us about everything that you're doing where we know you from and mixed signals the show you've got going right now. First of all, I wanna say thank you guys so much for having me here. I was ridiculous. I didn't even sleep last night. I'll let you know in an hour how I feel about it. Okay. All right, fine. Yeah. You guys can catch me at the pack theater. Every third Saturday of the month APM for my show mixed signals, which is basically comedy from all sides. I'm the next Evelyn of Chapelle show camp. He'll keeping his diverse as possible, lots of risky edgy. Sketches. A lot of great standup comedians as well as I was just recently featured on comedy, central as well as I will be in the upcoming short film pimps about a group of Pinson seventies to embark on selling Tupperware. This sounds fantastic kills like I've heard this story before. A tie. A timeless tale of. Story often told the tales of him selling Tupperware, Mary, Kay spinoff, it's gonna be fantastic. As a Netflix series waiting to happen. This is okay. This is fantastic. Joseph, you know, you're very active on the who would win. Facebook ruben. We're so appreciative of it. Get why tell us why first of all, I believe I have some of the best taste and pop culture and nerd culture, but not just nerd culture. Cool. Noor culture and I love kung FU movies. I love anime specifically tournaments enemy, such as Rony Kinchen. You haka show dragon ball z. I love it so much. I almost I can't even come to words how much I love the Facebook group, the idea of forget about everything else is going on right now, because the government kinda sucks, the climate is just coming at us. So we might as well, enjoy our time here and have some fun and really figure out who's better, you know, Zayda witchy, or right. Uh-huh. Who you Busa, you know, and that's the entire point of the show. We, we literally ignore every single thing, that's happening in the outside world, to focus only on this battle the find the, the positive thing about the who would wind show because you're right. We do forget about all the seemingly, quote unquote, important things the only important thing as far as I'm concerned. I'll tell you why. I actually do believe is really important thing is because think about all the people that have come together through all the social media platforms our listeners, we're not horribly far from a million downloads, you know what I mean? Like we're, we're in this love to say it's because Ray is so awesome. And he is would like to say that as well because. Moving on. So what I'm saying here Joe's of is that the reason I think it's okay, just because everybody can come together with opinions. You know, like no one's from the same background is Ray with United live in a box, and we actually eat on regular basis. So, you know, our opinions a little bit different, but we can agree sometimes on, who would win battles. And what have you. So it's a really cool community. And I gotta tell you, I'm really I don't know if the right word is thrilled or probably thankful that you're kind of joining in on this on. No as you're here representing the people today. Yes. This is an extra gravitas. Like, there's like a monster celebrity in the I'm not even kidding. I feel like there's a Mazar slavery. So I can't thank you enough. Please continue to do everything you do by the way, keep acting directing writing in. Yeah. That's, that's okay. Real comments on Facebook. That's alright. Again, we do we are very thankful for all of the people who consume who would win in all the various social media platforms. Keep doing it. Keep reaching out to us. We are super receptive to that end. I would say, Terry and Lancaster. And one of the reasons why he is on the show is because he was suggested so often on the Facebook group now, we might not always take the specific battle. Although we did last week, we will take characters like we, if you put a character in the thing we will take an honest, look at that character. And even if we don't think that battle is exactly what we want to do for any number of different reasons which could be completely out of control. These characters definitely could spin on and have a life of their own. You're absolutely right. And there's a reason why I wanted everyone to put their suggestions for who invite within the Facebook group, not necessarily on Twitter or Instagram, or just in, you know, wherever else, the reason why is because I wanted a place where, you know, because he's see online sometimes people make suggestions for fights or groups or battles whatever. And then. Horribly inadvertently someone comes along and just starts trashing it and saying that's a stupid fight, or that's not cool. That's right. And I don't want that. So I wanted the Facebook group for who would win to be a place where you could suggest a fantastic idea or maybe an idea that's not thought up. Or maybe it's ninety that's maybe not the best, but we'll definitely consider it. Yeah. And it will celebrate the fact that you're suggesting awesome for even the stupid suggestions. So if you're going home thinking of giving us a terrible stupid suggestion that's already been done ten million times over do it anyway. I might still make fun of you. But you won't know. Yeah. Make what we call a race to Kane of suggestion. Thank you. Okay with it. Thank you. I actually think I can't remember who did it. But I've been thinking about subzero versus Darth maul for the past like two weeks. Not six rematch of that is a great match up. Now I'm going to be thinking about it for the next two weeks. He's sorry, but we were focused on tier Lancaster versus shut. That's right. So with thank you for. There you go. And we'd like to take a second to thank one of our amazing sponsors, final draft final drafts has been the number one selling screenwriting application in the world over twenty five years and is used by writers such as the kademi award winner, Guillermo del Toro, their newest release final draft eleven offers, great new features, including image support, a feature that is perfect in conjunction with their graphic novel template for creating your own comic series by on draft is happy to offer thirty percent off to listeners of the who would win podcast. Just go to WWW dot final draft dot com and use code WWW F D one nine at checkout. Again, go to draft dot com and use code WWW FD one nine in all caps to get thirty percent off. So with that said, is about that time Ray please do us the honors and announce today's matchup. Representing the game of thrones universe. The man who proves it's not the size. It's what you do with it, that counts Tyrian Lancaster and representing the cinematic, universe the dull who proves that murder is so easy. It's child's play Chucky. Well done Ray 'cause I I just like how your hands move very animated during the show. Yeah. Covering your face too close to him. You're getting anyway I before we go any further. Let's go over the official rules of a who would win match down rule. Number one, each debater. We'll be able to make three points rule. Number two, the who'd want matches a random encounter in a neutral location with neither combatant necessarily knowing anything about their opponent or having any time to prepare for it. We'll number three the exact version of the character has to be specifically stated so you're going with Chucky from the child's play movies at his correct. And I'm going with the what I call the ultimate bad ass of game of thrones hearing Lancaster from the TV series, not the book. I think that's great. Cool. All right. Rule number four. The winner of the woodwind win debate is remember, the judges is has the best ability to incapacitate their opponent to the degree where they can safely walk away with no further threat being present. This includes completely destroying their opponent, removing them from the field of battle restrain them. We're knocking them out. The who'd went battles are not necessarily death. Matches rule number five the judge can disallow veto. Appoint made by one of the debaters, if they feel it goes outside of the scope of the battle or is a relevant to the fight. And lastly rule number six each us examples of powers, abilities, or weapons that are part of the specific characters continuity, or at least was with that character for good deal of time. One off examples of powers or abilities that were use only once in the characters history will not be allowed. And now, let's get to the tale of the tape or both of our combatants today sale. The tape is brought to you by race. It the hashtag raise right? Who would win t shirts or even better one, the classic hashtag, who would win t shirts. It's okay, not bad. Go onto Amazon dot com and type in hashtag, who would win or tag Ray is right to pull up our two assortment. That's all we can you say to for? I think you can in this race, by the way, there will be more hashtag, who would win shirts coming out in the near future. We're working on it. We're working on it. Cool. All right. So, right. Please give us the details on Chucky. Chucky is actually the vengeful spirit of a murderer named Charles Lee Ray he was created by Don Mancini. John Lafia, and Tom Holland. Not that one for the nineteen Eighty-eight movie. Child's play Charles Lee Ray was a serial killer, who was shot by police and hid in a toy store, where he used voodoo powers in order to put his spirit and consciousness into a nearby. Good guy doll modeled after the my buddy dolls of the eighties thusly. He was able to survive evade capture and continue on his murderous rampage. There are certain benefits to being trapped inside of a doll, namely Chucky is able to hide in plain sight. And most of the time as nobody expects the doll in the corner to actually hurt them also being made of plastic allows for a great deal of damage to be taken by Chucky without keeping him down for two very long, fun fact during promotion for the nineteen ninety eight film, bride of Chucky. Chucky appeared on the Jumbotron during episode of world championship wrestling's Monday night, nitro to threaten wrestler, Rick Steiner. This lead TV announcer. Tony shivani to ask one of the stupidest questions in the history of television. Wondering what role the fictional character Chucky would play and Rick Steiner upcoming pay per view match to anyone over the age of five. The obvious answer was zero and that is Chucky. I remember that. And the funniest thing on your thinking in that was Rick Steiner actually engaging Ziya, log wouldn't shocking, pre recorded Chucky for your current Chucky and saying junkie, if you come June when he's no nothing's happening because, as a wrestling fan, and professional wrestler myself that is one of the most embarrassing moments of my entire life cringe-worthy for other people not to me, but for the spirit of wrestling, and we try to keep it real to appoint, but when you have a character arguing with a fictional doll, and then the announcer wondering if the dull was suddenly going to come into real life in attack him during the match. I very, very upset. That's not the first precedent for WCW doing that RoboCop, RoboCop having sting from the case in the cage. Yeah. And stink. Going like yeah. What are you going to do with rubble? It's again, one of the WCW did a lot of very upsetting things back in the ninety when that character the shocker the shot. I call him the shock the shock Massar fell down. Yeah. That when that's not your most embarrassing thing. That's like fifth on the list of most embarrassing cringe-worthy WCW moments is I like where this episode's going all ready. You can say they got bought up other competitor. Yes. A I hear the details for Tyrian Lancaster. Now, Carolina's shares, a character, of course, created by George r r Martin appeared in the series of fantasy novels known as a song of ice and fire, the television version of Tyrian, which we all know and love first appeared in episode one of the game of thrones series titled winter is coming now Tyrian is the youngest son of Lord, Taiwan, Lancaster, the richest man in the seven kingdoms his mother Joanna died giving birth to Tyrian for which is bothering sister. She never forgave him being born a door of Tyrian has been underestimated as well as ridiculed and disrespected his entire life by both as immediate family, and most people, whom he encountered lacking, beauty or brother Jimmy's player with a sword grass from childhood. He could survive only by sharpening his intellect through guile strategy and being quite possibly, the most clever person in all of the seven kingdoms cheering escape death. Anytime at she powerful political positions and somehow survived the entirety of the game of thrones Sega years. Interesting fact. But Jerry in Lancaster. Did you know that he was written in the novels anyway? As an accomplished acrobat. It's true and aspect of Tyrian that's pretty much omitted entirely from his portrayal in the HBO series. Is that he actually knows how to do performance acrobatics? In fact, in his first meeting with John, snow and game of thrones. The book not the show, Terry and actually introduces himself by doing a flip off the top of a roof and landing in front of John, that kind of would have changed everything ever if he was in the series right at the acrobats when the series. And now you have the facts on both opponents Joseph. Do you have any questions before we get started? Okay. Wait. So you're only going off the TV series, correct, sir. Okay. That's on. That's my only question. Excellent question. Beautiful actually question Ray. Please proceed with your first point. My first point is just to bring up a couple of aspects of Chucky that I want to highlight one his general strength, given his diminutive size, and to his, absolutely psychotic nature. Let's begin by talking about the psychotic. Nature. Now Chucky is a psycho killer, Charles Lee Ray is the is a strangler, he murdered a whole bunch of people. So he has absolutely no compunctions about killing one thing. I know about Terry Lancaster is he has killed in the show a few times, generally speaking, he has major compunctions against it Tyrian as a character will often find any reason to not kill and come up with a way to talk his way out of a situation before. Eventually resorting to violence. Chucky does not do that Chucky goes straight for the straight for the hard parts to the, the meat of the bone every single chance that he can get. So when it comes down to actual acts of violence, that are going to happen Tyrian will feel bad, about taking a life, but Chucky will revel in it in the case of a one on one combat. Encounter. I think that psychotic nece and the ability to go, far and beyond levels of violence in the other person could even be conceptualizing. Absolutely will work in the favour of Chucky. To point out now. He's got his spirit trapped inside the body of this doll, which on the surface. It is a smaller. Dull it is, actually, I would say, maybe touch smaller than even Tyrian Lancaster. So he is actually going to be the, he's gonna be the underdog in this fight against Terry Lancaster, which is not always a place that Tyrian will find himself fighting from so one Tyrian, who's used to fighting a certain way from from behind will actually be the favourite in this match. When you first take a look at it. He's not used to that position. He might not know exactly what to do with that advantage. Secondarily Shuki is shockingly, strong. He has got acts of, of raw violence seated he's movies and a few of these, I'm going to bring to your attention right now. At one point, he cripples a teacher in a classroom, and then pulls out a yardstick. Now, we know yardsticks tend to break yardsticks, if you ever had the nuns in Catholic school or you're aware of that they will wrap your hands with them, repeatedly, and it will hurt a lot Chuckie beats this woman to death with a yardstick without break. Which just shows a certain amount of strength. But also psychosis is well, because he just keeps hitting her until she don't move. No more. Additionally. He's got a he's taken it an axe. And he's actually punctured a hole in a door and then put his face through in one of my favorite child. Maybe my favorite child's play Bowman ever he crushes into the door sticks. His face in, like Jack Nicholson from the shining and says, I can't think of anything to say right now. Bad job me in so many words, it's a great moment, but he's actually he's shown the ability to use an ax to actually shattered down a door if he needs to additionally, he's taken a straight razor to a barber, who was cutting military hair and in one shot Steve's been able to cut the men's throat right away. Very very quickly. He's deceptively fast given given what you would expect from him. So new one shot, he's been able to straight razor, this military, Barbara. So he was a soldier and he was able to kill him with that straight razor or right away a couple other feats. He strangled man to death with jumper cables. I mean, the fact that he is a two foot doll who's over. Powering grown adults means a lot to me in this battle, I believe when it comes to strength. He has strength beats that will exceed the things that Tyrian Lancaster has done, even though he's coming from behind finally, he wants took a hatchet and knocked off a man's, jaw clean off these like when he gets the moment. And he has that moment of violence. He's one of those guys who holds back and holds back. Then when, when it's the moment he's like a trap door spider. They act all innocence. Oh you can't I I would never hurt you. It's time for the stabbing dude gets to stab stabbing. And it hurts said he takes that person down one time after another. So and one thing that, I think both of these characters would have working towards them that will negative each other in this battle is the ability to not be taken. Seriously as a threat until it is too late. And both of them, I'm sure have great examples and I know this respect. I'm sure have examples of them taking that underestimation and running it to the moon and killing their target. That is my point. Number one here here's the thing. I actually think I read this that Chucky has the strength of. An adult male. Yes. Which it actually kind of impressive. Because he's, you know, this kid's toy you know that's about two three feet tall. So that's that is pretty. I'd say says pretty cool. You know, it's funny Chucky has red hair has, you know, some weird mental issues and kind of over exaggerates like hand motions and things that they're great and half psychosis. I'm just saying Joseph, if you take a look to your right, okay. Describe that character named rates me right now. He's. Yeah. I see. Ray is a shockingly handsome man. I've already shocking in that you would say handsome, or both shockingly, handsome, and handsomely, shocking. But yes, red hair Chucky had a beard, man. I'll bet ask other crazy, right? Yeah. I mean shock he's got good race. Got good arguments for what he says, in the show, raise handsome like the way you described, like a woman from northern Ontario from where I'm from, that's a very handsome woman right there. So I, I'd give that to them I give that to. All right. I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying, really because these are great points. They're, they're okay points. I've heard better in my allowed to please. Yes. You need to because it was perfect. But if you want to ruin it. That's when you said, Cecchi, strangled, a man with jumper cable, jumper cables, I believe, that's in child, the first child play when he doesn't actually kill him, but he strangles him. And he's able to overpower him with the junk cables, and effectively eliminate him as a threat. Well, that cop survives, I believe. Yeah. Go on. So he you, you said he strangled him to death. I might have added the two. We should say great technical raise name. It's fake news. Okay. For middle name. That accident because I was in the moment. So I will. Listeners at home. Karma passionate. Also, to your point, though. What really happens break. It was it was a trained officer of the law, which actually would get me a little more credence. I would believe, but what that does bring to mind is that Cecchi was able to take a butcher knife through an entire car like a tire, like a driver's seat of a car. His grandma's impale and cash straight that, man. What you remember? That was a while. It was from a young boy trying void the, the, the mutilation of those areas when possible battle. But yes that is a thing. Okay. But I just wanted to make sure you said he strangled him to death. You know what I deserve correction there? And I thank you for it. Okay. You should deduct some points. All right. You don't have to I good call. Joseph by. All right. So let's go on my point, number one. If I may. Okay. I think you're gonna like this. I call this one Tyrian Lancaster kicks ass. Just that's just my point. So I get that he was overlooked as a little personally game of thrones. You know, all the realms kingdoms just as I'm sure a little person would have been, you know, had a really rough go during actual medieval times, I get it. But did some checking guess what I found out how many people deteriorate Lancaster kill onscreen like that you actually saw. Have three or four off the top of my head. Right. So I saw at least five that we see. And no, I'm not including that time. He accidentally gave poison wine to Joffe. I'm not counting at all. Yeah. By the way, is also suggest that he killed more people offscreen during battles. He's already involved with, like the battle of blackwater, when or what have you, plus, how many undid creatures to destroy in the crypt like the white walkers, where he was put in charge of looking after all, like noncombatants and during the attack the white white look. I mean he maybe one or two at that point. But I mean he actually took him on right with, like does look after my like that's a bad ass thing to do. See what people are saying is at Tyrian is actually a very capable fighter despite the fact that he suggested to have little combat training during the attempted abduction of Caitlyn stark. I think this was like in season, one Tyrian killed one of the would be attackers by grabbing a somewhat improvise weapon. But it was it was a shield it wasn't used meant it was meant as a defensive thing, but he grabbed the shield he knocked attacked her to the grandmas smashing in the head. And when he tired pulsa ground then smashes in the person's Ed by taking the edge that she. And just kind of completely ram it in over and over until the guy's dead. He did that with his hands tied. You know what I mean? Like this is not. This is not a regular. He's a hands are tied. And you actually saved Caitlyn stark by with the show. It's insane in the battle blackwater were Tyrian was actually leading troops. He killed what looked like a commander of the opposing army by firstly chopping off one of his legs with an axe, and as the guy falls, he takes the action repeatedly just like three wack. Wack Bom and takes the guy out. He looks like a commanding officer, and then he's like follow me and then all his troops. I got pumped up and follow him in a battle yet rarely he chopped off the person's leg Ray. While that person was wearing armor Ray. I mean, that's how strong Terry Lancaster is, you know. Yeah, gray. And again, that sounds really bad ass to me, who are Chuck is typical victims are the types who chop people's legs who command troops, during insane battles, or who kill attackers with improvise weapons, while their hands are tied. Absolutely not. They are schoolteachers, or unsuspecting parents or absolute non. Fighters. Most of the time, and are any of Chuck, is intended victims, capable of the savagery the beat downs and the ruthlessness when required by Tyrian Lancer. Absolutely not. And as pointed out later, we'll get. I make it as well. Let him finish his point. We'll cross all these arguments in just a second outrage to that's fair doesn't take much, though, as Chuckie doesn't farewell against people with less than half of Tyrian Lancaster's battery. That's my point. Number one. Oh, go ahead and dismantle that point piece by piece. So you said that Chucky hasn't killed anyone of kind of a kind of combat experience. So I'm saying, like in when Chuck, I'm saying, Chuck, he's typical opponent difficult Joseph because I know exactly where you're going, and I agree because I'm about to say it. If you don't go ahead, you say like commit like when he's in the middle of a battle, and people are wearing armor and are armed with medieval weapons, and he's in the middle, and it's a Malay time. Would you say perhaps Chucky record-breaking havoc and killing a bunch of people on a military base? Maybe we'd be an anti thing to your point of their facing. Okay. So are they armed and facing off against chocolate? Like, are they coming at armed? He made sure all the bullets were real. It check. He's been shot quite a few times. But I'm talking about talking about shot right now that I don't disagree with rim saying is, who does he like to go after typically typically I think he goes after who's closest to him who's ever the threat whoever whoever's a threat. So I think. I wouldn't per se use that against Chucky because he doesn't him, he's not going to go run up against a bunch of UFC five out of, he's not, they're not a threat at the moment. Then let me just as part of just this rebuttal. If I may just really quick to if I may take the baton for a moment he's cut you off just a big jerk is, you're talking about, you know, who is Chuck fought as if Chucky only praise on babysitters and old ladies. When the reality is in one of the entire the most of that entire movie takes place, because his expected target goes to military school, and he had some going to this military training base. And in Rex all kinds of havoc making sure although he, he replaces all the, the dummy bullets would live fire munitions, so they will shoot each other because he's very tricky. We'll get into that in my point number two. But I would say he's attacking trained soldiers and trained a military personnel. I think that actually works against your point. I'm sorry. You didn't know about this. You'll lose James, I'm sorry. So we're saying in a chance. Encounter where neither one was expecting to run into the other person Tyrian Lancaster would represent like because again, it's underplayed material answer is an absolute bad ass when he needs to be. That's what I'm saying is that that's not the typical opponent that Chucky would run into possibly. All right. He, he runs the gamut recognize what you're saying. I knowledge it all. Oh, good. I was gonna say chuckling has killed multiple police officers in Chicago in the time before social media, when they were probably worse up police officers. Yeah. So you could kind of say Chucky is also gonna begin psychos. No, no disrespect to police officers, I thank you for your service, please do not pull me over. Absolutely. I would say actually, if I may just even to even I'm gonna give James a little bit of credit here, because I'm Terry and Lancaster is such an impressive character of all the battles that we've done up to this point. This is one that I walk in the door buried very nervous about because Tyrian Lancaster is one of those characters that when you sort of just look at him. And you think about him and he's the guy who gets drunk, you know, and he's just you don't think much of him, but then when you actually start to break down like I did. And I know like you did some of the feats he's done and some of the things he's put together disguise rough man. This is this is a this is one of the toughest battles. I think we're going to have. I think from my side, especially Tyrian Lancaster is is. Is awesome. He is awesome. And, and. To a lot of your points. Yes, he did a lot of those things. And I hope I have some point number two to counteract it because that is very, very good stuff. All right. Well, then hit us with point, number two point number two, we're going to deal with a little bit of Chuck durability, and his trickiness. That's really where I want to live right now. Because to your point earlier took he's been shot a lot of times Chucky is a supernatural being at the end of the day, Tyrian Lancaster, must stay in the realm of reality. Whereas Chucky can actually go to a non reality because he is essentially made of magic vote. Do magic. He's very, very durable. Here's been shot repeatedly. Here's been thrown repeatedly. He has he has had his a couple of examples right here. There's one point where he gets his arm cut off from his body. So if Terry Lancaster lands, one of those sort hits and cuts off Chuck arm. Chuck arm was able to act independently of Chucky, somehow, Tyrians got two things to worry about instead of one in the world. He's in and he's dealt with the white walkers before this might not be completely. Out of place. Still difficult though. I would say at one point he had his head completely removed along with one of his arms and his legs. And he continued to keep fighting he does not need his head, which is what I assumed Tyrian would maybe go for I given the proportions between them. He gets his head removed. Tyrian thinks he's won. The battle Chuckie knife, some of the jugular right there and takes them out for the battle, because Tyrian as clever as he is would definitely not see that coming. He's also been burned took his been burned almost to nothingness and continue to fight with just a black index terrier Hugh, to your point. He's been shot a lot. He's had half of his face sliced off by a side and was able to keep on fighting. His durability is not in question. I would argue with both of them take a similar amount of punishment. Chuck is going to win this battle ten times out of ten Tyrian is not going to he's getting his face cut and that was very very he got hit real hard in that shot to be fair. He did go down for the rest of the battle when that happened. Chucky taking a similar shot laughs, it off and continues on. So I think the durability. Here is massively in the favor of the killer doll finally the trickiness Tyrian, very, very clever, I would argue that as the series progressed, and I don't even think this is necessarily, but arguable Tyrian got considerably less clever, as every single season of the show past, if we're gonna talk about here, and we need to talk about the entirety of Tyrian and in seasons one through five, George Martin parts. Smartest man in the room. We'll think his way out of every situation season, six through eight we got a poke a little bit of holes in this veneer because he made constant tactical errors constant mistakes, trusted the wrong people to do the wrong things at the wrong times. And if it wasn't for a little luck, let's be quite Frank. He would have found himself dead at any one of a number of points during the season and probably should have been dead. And we have to hold that against him. Whereas Chucky on the other hand is a guy who will he will use anything his disposal to do. He's created gas leaks, which is then caused explosions when he when he kinda manipulated the situation, he's used a bag of marbles to throw on the ground when he. Is being pursued? So as pursuers would trip and fall. I mean he's using home alone tactics. And I think at its core the scrappy fighter who's gonna use everything at his disposal is going to defeat the guy who's going to take the fight a little more up front, ten times out of ten I think the scrappy or clever fighter will get that done. That is my point. Number two. Yeah. I say something to that. Yes, please. I think those were incredible points. Thank you, the durability of Chucky. That's I really I gotta agree with that. But in interiors defense, and I know I don't have to defend them here. But go ahead. He's as my favorite character in. Yeah. I think this could be a stretch. I could be reaching like Michael Jordan Space Jam here. I think that he was so clever. He happened to Allred understand that Denise shouldn't be the Queen. So he started to sabotage her interesting. And he also kind of started playing the fool so that people would understand man that much more throughout the later seasons. I think I agree with that a lot. I would just say, though, that it does whether we have to then read intention, into his actions that does not discount the actions themselves. Okay. I, I just, I don't know that I would go against his intellect because of how smart he was in the first five seasons. I think that he's smart enough to play dumb. It knew very well might be right. But it definitely needs to be put on the record. Well, here's the later seasons, right? He had to he had to gamble. So he had to gamble with you know when veneers. Veneers was his name the ball headed. Lord, Lord bears when he had to turn him in. It was a gamble. That was he was in for the last three seasons, especially when he was involved with what's her name Khalil's star, Gary Don deniro's? Right. He had to constantly do the math and gamble every time he said, okay. If I say this to her, here's what happens if I say this. Here's what happens, by the way. I'm not just weighing in whether or not a friend or a city gets destroyed or someone gets killed. I'm also in play here to the very fact that he ends up at the end of the episode. The hand of the king is a well played match where he gambled, the right way continuously. So I don't think it was luck when luck involved know and this is the thing like in, in fighting right? And got the comment's worse background. You know, there's, there's certain fighters who pull out weird winds and you're like, no way the math, I should've have you lose and that was lucky fight and. Then they went another lucky fight, then they went another lucky fight. And after a while you like you can't be that lucky that often that. Yeah, that's kind of how I see Tyrians might appear like one odds might appear luck purely lucky. But overall, he's got I don't know the tracker, you're gonna speaks for itself. So let me get to my point number two. This okay. I call this at, let's got revisited. I just call it Ron television, so perfect timing. So to say the cheering Lancaster is extremely intelligent would be a monster understatement to intelligence, right? He's an accomplished battlefield commander to such an extent, by the way, that his father, widely regarded as one of the best commanders in. I think it's a west rose acknowledges him for it begrudgingly, right? He doesn't really liked hearing. He has personally led troops during the battle of blackwater, and his intelligent politically astute enough to have served like as a chief advisor to two separate monarchs God, a king hand of the king hand of the Queen whereas intelligence, cutting really stand out, is when we see him easily manipulate and trick just like raising others time after time. So let's go back and season to in order to discover who is leaking. Formation to Queen or two before she became the ultimate wing cherry, and told Bayless embarrass that mersal. I guess there's his daughter would be married away to different houses. So Tyrian told Pacelle should marry into house Martell. Terry, until VERA, she would marry into the iron born tearing told Bela she should marry into the veil and the end. Russillo, was married in house Martell, and pie sell turned out to be the leak. This is master manipulation on a master level, and he's manipulating people who are also masters of manipulation. Does this is crazy? I had to rewatch the scene probably eight times because I got confused by the names, I just really started getting into. But then when I finally figured out what we what was being written. What was being said? I'm like, oh my God. This is incredible really savaging this character as the ultimate manipulator, right? And he did it for the cause of good. Which is cool. So how does this intelligence gets an opponent like Chucky? Right. Because that's figure out. He plays it. Well, again, Chuck, he's a killer. I get it. But he's not the smartest killer. He's creative. He's clever. He's also got a one track mind, which means one hundred percent of his focus is. On murdering his targets and not thinking a few steps ahead to keep himself out of danger or to keep themselves safe while doing so, so example, I think it's during child's play to chug. It was supplying his murders rage that he easily, you know, he kinda got lit up this conveyor belt kind of thing that was going on. He was after this kid, and I guess his young woman who was looking after him. And he's coming after he's got a knife in his hand and the element kind of somehow closes the metal door on Turkey's arm and Chucky is so focused on his murderous, rage, which speaks with durability. He rips off the arm. So it's still pin. Now he's gonna stub and use his other hand to grab the knife. And then he does some local stuff after that. But I mean that just reveals his intent whereas most you'll be like okay, like, oh, the knife me. Get my arm out of here. Let me you this is it. No. I'm just tear this out to my own detriment, because I don't care. What happens in the future? And I know that was part of the storyline, but it was very revealing in the equally celebrated, and I'm using this term orderly. Iconic film masterpiece known as bride of Chucky. I love it, right. Like father had seen in that pantheon. Yeah. You know, a number of Meryl Streep homes, and then a brighter Chucky right there, you're done. You've seen all the top ten you. You don't have to remove ever again. So now both Chucky and his bride. Tiffany mate, your to, I can't believe I actually was watching this on you to get into a major domestic dispute while holding another couple hostage in an RV, otherwise known as race. It gains his dream home. And someday. I'll my house will have wheels, someday boyfriend, the boyfriend tells Chuckie that his wife should be cleaning up the dishes. I mean, this is a deep stuff, just as deep as the game of thrones narrow, I talked about the relation okay. So the boyfriend tells Chuckie that Chuck, his wife, Tiffany should be clamped additions dishes, while Chuck wife, Tiffany's being told by the girlfriend that she is being under appreciated by Chucky and with many other domestic disputes, that take place in RV's shots are fired which led to the hostages given the opportunity to escape. This is not so settlement aviation and trickery, or there's not so Mickley trickery was done to Chucky by two teenagers who weren't exactly like Rhodes scholars here. Right. Okay. So if they can manipulate and trick Chucky. What do you think here in Lancaster possibly the most clever person ever live in the seven kingdoms would do them? And I think this is really how he would fight. I mean because look chunky super durable, he can take on a punishment. He's got some frailties do, don't be wrong. He can't just take unlimited punishment, but can take way more than the regular human being. And I think you're right. This could be like all of a sudden tears, like, oh, damn this thing is really really you'll durable. That's when he's going to say, okay, how do I figure it out because he's a great thinker on the spot, and he's going to say remember, what that saying for the Lancers Atlanta, you're always pays their debt? He's going to call that into place. A hey, you know what? I know what you're after before you kill me. I know what you want, and I know where you can get it. Let me take you there and I'll get it. You can do whatever you want to be in chocolate. He's has at one track minds like, oh, okay. Whatever that is. I'm convinced he can figure that. Out at that moment, that's where I kind of see a huge advantage for Tyrian Lancaster before you ask your questions. I got a few rebuttals, and then please fill in any gaps that I will have. I he is. I would argue that it's not even arguable Tyrian Lancaster is a smarter character than Chucky. The killer doll does it. How do you feel saying that statement by feels real good, weirdly enough? I can't express why but it does put in the context of a one v. One battle. Now Chucky, absolutely got manipulated when whenever he's around Jennifer tilly's character. Yes. Things tend to go poorly. They have a very poor relationship, and they can against that weddings. Well planned out not. I mean he was the well he's the one who did it to himself. He's the one who put her spirit in the doll be companion, so bad job Chucky. But that being said she is not in play here. Any of these other factors are outside interference. I if there were other people, and there were other situations and scenarios at play, I think tearing would have a chance to manipulate people into do that kind of thing I would say. Chuck drive is single minded focus, I think in, in the overall context would work against him in this context completely works to his favor. The fact that you brought on the table, the fact he was able to rip his own arm off to continue the battle without even giving it a second thought completely works in Chucky favor, as far as this goes, and I would believe that Tyrian would try to use to use Chucky to think to himself like, oh, this guy's a monster. This guy's a menace. He's very durable. How can I use this to benefit my own goals? And I think that you think that's a positive. I see that as a wild negative because the second you try to manipulate Chucky. And think the second Chucky lets you think that you have control of the situation that's typically, when it stabbing time as soon as you think that you as soon as Chucky will play along with it, perhaps. He'll be like that's interesting. I am listening. Oh, yes, yes, yes, in the second the Tyrian turns to open the door takes out his achilles with a knife or something to that effect. I think you're I see your point. I think you're underestimating, you know, who Tyrians had to manipulate and trick. To survive. He said to manipulate them in a political environment, though. This is a battle environment that I don't think that the same abilities are going to help him in this. How did he survive, like battles where he's in there, and he's, you know, in the mix of things there's two main battles that I can think of, and there's the battle of blackwater spoke before, which is the battle, he got disfigured in and left for dead on the battlefield. So he didn't. I mean, yes, he did some good feats to open that battle up. But he did get men to lead him which does not come into play here. But that's also the battle that he got his butt handed to him because he really at the end of the day when fighting an army is not the guy, you certainly want to your frontline fighting an army, you want him planning the assault. Now, I agree with that. There's another occasion, where a dragon had to come in and save and actually scooped up deniro's and flew off with her. It was in that arena kind of setting I forget, which episode was season five or six or something like that. And he had to, like, I forget, who that person was a former slave, but now a confidante to deniro I think she she's got her head chopped off in the last second last episode missile. Andy, there you go. So he had to protect her because she was about to get killed. So he had to take out people there, too. He is the one who was like on the fly figuring. Okay. Where's the best place? We need to be. Here's what we're going to go. Here's over here. He's also a great tactical battlefield or in the midst of battle planner and think, and that's the thing he's the mastermind who can definitely give you a battle plan that will work to success. Does that necessarily transfer to help them in a one in one encounter? I would say not enough is the answer. They like I say, I have great respect for his military mind. It's just it's apples and oranges. These are two very different situation was talking about him in the midst of the fight. He had to take out someone he had to save this person. He had to figure out where we going here. Sure, you know, that's against a huge force of people who are now turning on them. In the was it the sullied and the whole thing. So. He's a great number of things. I just in this particular scenario against a single minded focus guy who can't really be. I would say Terry and trying to control him. I really do. And I don't think Chuck, he's gonna let him do that. Although he might give him the veneer of doing it. I think Chucky might absolutely make think it's going away. And then absolutely not. Have a good guy driving an RV. Chucky to a point where he didn't flip and check. You went flying out. There was a loved one in the room with him. We've all been there with our significant other in front of other people and had moments of regrettable raise sayings, that he's been manipulated by teenage boy, while he's been outside by someone while in an RV using James. Yes. I know. All right. Before we do Joseph. Do you have any anything else to say about a turning point? Well before that he does have a question that I interrupted because I'm a big jerk. So we're giving we're giving Tyrian. We're not giving him the ability to manipulate others around him to defend. There's no, there's no on wanting currently went on. Okay. That's all I need to know if there were other people around Tyrian could literally turn to the humans and say, look a monster doll, and then those guys, but that's outside interference. That would not be good for this. Yes. In that type of situation. Yes. Tyrian. Absolutely gets it done. But that's not where we are. So now we're what's called the turning point, which means you're going to tell us who you think is a head in this battle, and what the other person has to do to pull out the victory. Right right now. This is such a tough battle. It really doesn't making both incredible points. I sure am Chuck durability. That speaks volumes right now Tyrian being a master manipulator. I love it. But Chuck, he's also he's not. He's not dumb. I think anyone that, that can one memorize an insane voodoo spell that will allow him to transfer sold his soul into Seoul, raving. He does that all the time. Okay. Got try that. That's, that's the body chosen by the way, the body chose to go in and happen. This temple. I know it was expensive. Up in your mouth and right now a little bit Joseph, you, okay? Let me just. Recalibrate. Okay, Chuck, he's murderous rage. I think does go against him at times. However, I think that also is an advantage. When Tyrian is going to try and manipulate them that murderous rage is going to almost not allow them to hear. I think a part of Tyrians charm and alert and his strength is a silver tongue and he's not listening at all. He's trying to kill is not going to skinny kind of screw things up Tyrians abilities survive. That's the thing that like, really, really, really that gets me. It's, it's tough. It's tough even thinking of him losing because he survived. So right now right now, I've got the advantage going to Chucky. Okay. Right now, I'm glad to hear that I, I agree with you one thousand percent just for the record you making great decisions. I hope that continues, hold on. Ray. James, would you have to do to convince me as I'm going to need? I'm gonna need to know. How Tyrian survives because I don't think I personally, I'm not going to going to reveal this. I think there's one way Tyrian wins this, I've needed to hit that point for me. He's got his vibe. And you need to you need to tell me survive. Great, great minds think alike. I need you to leave. I would say just keep doing what I'm doing because well. Well, you need him to what shower right hubris will. Let's see how it serves you sir serves junkie. Well, hopefully it serves me. Well, today, I'm ready for my point, number three point. Number three is talking about that voodoo that Chucky do so. Well, these two combatants and on paper as far as like tale of the tape would go Chucky has the advantage physically over Tyrian Lancaster Tyrian has the advantage, mentally over Chucky. But I think the physical advantage is much more of a difference than the mental advantages between the two because to your point, Chuck, he's not a dumb guy. He is also a survivor. He was able to. And this is two point my whole point. He's able to use magic powers. He is a mystic art of do he knew that he was had been shot by police. He knew that he was dying and had the wherewithal in his dying moments to be a survivor to your point about Tyrian heat is also a survivor. He was able to transfer his soul into the body of a doll, which is not like a normal thing. There is magic in the game of thrones universe. And there are white walkers and red mist monsters and fire magic and all that. Good stuff. Tyrian is not part of that world. He is part of that realm. He is strictly in the realm of human Chucky has magic powers to boost his already impressive combat abilities. So a couple of examples of this transferring soul into the dole in the first place. He was able to use a voodoo doll in another movie. There was a man that he wanted to kill, and he wanted to torture, and he wanted it to be very bad because he's a psycho. So he actually used his voodoo magic to create a doll of that person and stabbed. The dull repeatedly thus killing the man. This is a power that tyranny. Lancaster is not going to have an answer for whatsoever when it comes to using some of this do magic. I haven't seen him repel, magical attacks very well. He's also been able to split his soul. And this is a very excellent point. He was been able to split his soul into multiple hosts at the same time who those multi. Well hosts have been able to split their souls into multiple hosts going on and on and on. So if there is any sort of inanimate objects if there's any sort of other people around if they happen to find him he could then use whatever is in his area. He could put his soul into the spirits of everything around him in the room and have those things spring to life and attack Tyrian Lancaster from all directions at all times. So even if Tyrian lands huge shot on Chucky cuts him in half for stuff, we know that won't kill him. Second he's got the two abilities to reanimate himself in the body of something else. Whatever that looks like and continue, the fight Tyrian has a limited amount of endurance as far as goes chunky can keep going all day. Using the magical abilities. And finally, the last thing you can do in, in this. I think is also pretty big deal. He can transfer his soul into the body of another. So if for some reason he's able to knock Tyrian down, he can use his voodoo magic to put his spirit inside the body of Tyrian Lancaster thus kicking Terry and. Lancaster out and winning the fight because Tyrian soul will be gone. That is my point number three. Three points survival points. Absolutely. Are we going quick question? Are we going only by cannon from the first film of what's been told that Checky can do all of it, all of all of the engaging, that's the same character throughout? So we're going to go with it. Okay. Because he's been able to do a lot of different voodoo magic as the series progressed he has. And I wanna lean on that because I think as a magical being that puts him a huge leg up on a human being was he able to just transfer his soul to someone else. And he thought it was supposed to be the first person he revealed himself. He, he is tried multiple times with multiple people throughout the child's play movies, and generally, what's up. It hasn't worked. Well, the problem is he keeps getting interrupted by other people may problem that will not happen in a one on one. Encounter. Give me the power. I beg of you. Here's the thing, even if he does transfer like what's it's, it's Tyrian and Chucky. There's no one else there. Right. So who's he transferred any and by the way, when we when we did venom versus hell boy, how did we say, would work if then them, who's possessing Eddie Brock, venom, then possessed hell boy, does that mean then if any real nebulous real quick got real weird. The point came to be that if he took over hell boy for any length of time and Eddie Brock was taken out of that battle that help boy was gonna win that fight. That is what we agreed to in the moment. Okay. So I've got a question is there has it ever been stated because I'm not quite sure if this if Chucky takes over your body does that soul, then completely diminish, or, or is it like a trap, like, is it a whole Bruce banner type it in my mind the way in, I'm not even thinking that this is going to be necessarily the way he defeats in Lancaster. I think it's going to be stabbing. I really do. I think it's going to be stabbed from putting his, his soul in the host of a lot of other objects around him and attacking him on mass. If, if he can't just overpower immer trick him into submission to begin with. If for example, he was, too. I it's really nebulous, if he was to take over the soul of Tyrian Lancaster, it's not one hundred percent with the soul is trapped inside forever. Or if it just disappears in his pooped out of reality, but, I would I would I would just say, if he took over, Terry Lancers body and walked away, leaving the Chucky empty husky but Chucky doll behind that's kind of a victory, he has won the day. And I think you could safely say he achieved victory in those in those conditions. Not sure agree with that, but I can't bring a lot to disagree with that. And it's like it's, it's real nebula said, I'm not gonna lean on that, too heavily that to be known as a thing that's out there, not exactly where I think this fight is going to be won or lost. Okay. So example of power more than these specifics takes place in like the chamber room of Tyrian Lancaster, or in the game of thrones like root realm in a room somewhere in that say, low tech environment, the higher ticket goes, the more. I think and this is up to the judge determine where it takes place. But definitely the more elect, because Chucky knows about this stuff to make it a little more fair. We generally in the course of these battles Damian, Wayne versus Arya stark for example, same kind of deal. We dumbed down the environment. A little bit to make it a little bit more fair both sides because if there's if there's a an Uzi, only one of them's really going to know how to use the jozy carrying. All right. So here we go. Let me go kind of counter all this with my point number three. I think you're gonna like this one a lot. It was called before even knew that. You said what you said about the turning point. It's called survivability. Okay. So how many times? Chunky been killed and slash ordered destroyed a handful. But I mean it's never enough to keep him down. It's been six times one of his movies. Yeah. That's a handful. I, I didn't know you could put a combination of six debts in your hand. That's how he thinks that small. That's that's weird that he thinks like that. So let's see Chuck. He's been shot in the head dispatch that way he's had his head inflated until exploded. My personal favorite sliced to pieces by the propellers of a fan. He was shot again. He was then hacked to pieces by an axe, a Jerry Linenger kind does that separately. Well, and then he had his head literally stopped in something that during lent. Nassar also can do to as done to someone with a shield and who killed him. Right. It was a very you know, various people who took him out with heavy. But the fact is he died. You know, it was dispatched six times, according to who would win battle, if you can walk away safely for two two minutes about the person getting up you win, so six times according to what he's been dispatched. So again, check his whole thing, I really think he likes to catch people by surprise when he's. More or less ready for the encounter. But his intended victim is not. And I'm not saying that's the whole every way, but I'm just saying that's his favorite. That's his MO. That's what how he preferred to be and each time he gets killed. He's typically facing off against someone who's, you know, sometimes ready to fight back. Sometimes not. And here's the deal. How would let me say, how Chucky do if he were somehow in westernise boy, that's hard to say, I, I think he would definitely do a lot of murder, and he would he would. Let's do this. Let's replace here in Lancaster. With Chucky Alabama Chucky isn't surviving season. One, I I'm telling you, I don't think he would be I do. Here's can. I just real quick. I think he survived season one because the terrible people all survive season one. I don't think he's season. Four somewhere down the road. It we'll catch up with him like it did every other terrible. Ramsay Bolton and King Jaafar and season, one though, remember, like he had to have that I forget that night's name who survived the whole series, who Brown. Yeah. Ron, there's only Chuck. Like, hey, let me tell you why you should fight for me or whatever, you know, he's bulleting. Would have survived the war of the five kings about blackwater being framed for king Joppy's, murder, the invasion of west rose in the attack by the white walkers, a castle winter fell, I guess he not a chance, not a chance and Elsie. Terry Lancaster has something some quality that surpasses physical strength weapons weapons mastery political power, and even magic he has something that even dragons, and like two or three dragons, and the white Walker master the super powerful. I think he was called the Nike and didn't have. It's the ability to survive interior. It doesn't just survive. He typically somehow ends up in a good position after surviving, something that should have absolutely destroyed him. But couldn't not didn't couldn't cheering has that same weird characteristic, that the joker has in a weird way, that Norman Osborn has that Batman has he survived things that destroy everything, and everyone else would somehow can't take him out. Call it the fates call. It some whatever it is, you know, maybe the God's intervention when I have no idea, but it just nothing is taking him out. He can get hurt but he's not being take. In out in six movies Chucky has been taken out six freakin times right in eight seasons on one of the bloodiest shows possibly ever made where everyone is significance died all the time. Terry, Lance are always found a way to survive in the end nothing. No creature no personal supernatural, being no army could somehow kill him. Think about that per second. Right. That doesn't make him like the ultimate rival again. He's the ultimate one of the bad asses. And how does he end up? You don't hand of the king. Right. This is crazy. How does Tyrian uses survive sort of, you know, let's talk about how does he uses survivability to win this fight? Well, again, I use it before I talk about psychology. Right. So Tyrian matches the violence that physicality and the fighting savagery and the conning that's needed for the moment he taps into it. Okay. When he killed the commander, I mentioned that before on the battlefield he uses insane savagery. He just runs up to the guy chops off his leg and then chops them in the bind till with an so he's dead. And just all right. Follow me man. You know that was cold. Calculating. He was a monster. He was absolutely psychotic. I mean he was almost like smiling when he kills his father with a crossbow he did it in a cold manner. Just like, yeah, no, we're done phone when he strangled I think it was his name, his romantic interest with, like just a scarf. Yeah, it was rough, it was right. He was crying while doing so because he was he did we had to physically to match, but just to see how the emotional content survivability and the tactics when it's time for him to be a monster. He's a monster when time going to be a psychopath done when time for him to be the hero. He's good to go. So he'll actually use that. The reason why survives because he matches what he needs for the moment. Right. And he understands how to play. He's that smart. So final point with Terry Lancers bad Asri is insane and ability to manipulate people, which I still think is a big thing. Chucky specific susceptibility to be manipulated and having ability to survive the gore and bloodshed of eight frequencies of games of game of thrones. I just don't see a way the terrier Lancaster loses to Chucky and that's my point number three. And that's a lot of goodness that you said, right there. Look, I am. I am not here to disparage, Tyrian Lancaster. This is a fantastic character. I just happen to believe in this particular case in this particular battle. He just doesn't quite have enough to win the day against a killer voodoo doll questions. I have when he attacked Taiwian his father with the crossbow, did he did. He meet him in a field of battle stand toe to toe and heavy fight with him or did he catch him on the toilet unawares? He pulled a Chucky and waited until the person was in a horrible position. And then use cold calculating non like, barely emotional registry to take them out. And this to my point, you brought that up that Chucky does those things as a negative. And yet, when you brought up that example you left out the fact that he did the exact same tactic himself. That's what I'm saying. He can match that savagery that, that killing whatever you wanna call it that, that, that instinct when the, when the when the moment declares for it to be necessary. And I would also point out, you say he survived eight seasons of game of thrones. That is one hundred percent. Correct. Spoiler alert. But he didn't survive it through his battle prowess for the most part. He has ski survived through politics. He got inside the air in the minds of the right people and manipulate them to do the things he needed them to do to put himself in a position to escape. Okay. That's not going to help them in this situation. We've established that he's really not going to be able to manipulate Chucky, a whole heck of a lot, and he's not going to be able to turn Chucky to some weird extra purpose that's going to serve Tyrian, and that's really his go to move a lot of these situations. The last thing I would say this before we render judgment is I believe that the way that this battle is going to go is Tyrians going to do his number one thing survive. I think that necessarily Chucky might not kill Tyrian Lancaster. But I think Terry and runs away, I think that when he sees a voodoo doll on the battlefield in a one on one. Encounter used to to your point to point. Number three Tyrian is a survivor. He does not tend to take extra risks that he's not forced into a position to if he does not have. Two and when dealt with a supernatural beating attacking him that cannot be reasoned with because he is a flat psychopath. I think Terry and Lancaster would find a way to maybe drop address, or something on Shuki and run away from the field of battle creating his own battlefield removal, because he doesn't necessarily like to fight his battles a face to face. He likes to survive he likes to escape and that would be where I would leave this set of thoughts. When does he do that? When does he do that in combat well, when he got hit in the face, and the battle blackwater? He stayed down in the mud, the entire debate, will he didn't engage more enemies after that point when he had the ability when he again. Yes, by by not taking part in the paddle by running away. I think this makes a lot of when he killed when he killed his father Taiwian. He ran away. He. Right. And just like Chucky runs to have all of a sudden he's discovered. He doesn't stay there to take on the hordes of people that come his way to appoint a Chucky gets himself out of situations. Tyrian oftentimes need somebody else to come rescue from the dungeon that has happened multiple times over the course of the series. That's not going to help them in this battle, no outside interference allowed, but let's put it in the hands of our. Let's do it. All right. So you've heard both sides of this battle tell us who do you think wins this battle, and give us your process? Tell us what my God. Okay, do you want. Do you want who wins? I walk us through the process, and then tell us the process. Okay. So because I am a samurai romanticism these to meet on a completely barren dirt road and Eto Eto era, Kyoto Japan on. Yes. Commend aside these to meet in Japan. They're walking both on road. They spot one another. They both know they have to do battle. So I think that cancels out in my mind that cancels out Ray your equation of Tyrian running away. I think he knows he's got to do battle. He's got a defeat this guy. So I think that the lens to yours, James, where terrier is going to eventually survive, try and figure out a way to win. He's gonna do his best to figure out a way. Now continuing figure out a way before Cecchi stabs him up gives them stabbing Tom. I, I really see that check. He's going to do the best he can. I think I think equally they both are probably equal physical strength Chucky, having the strength of a, a man, a Tyrian showed incredible strength quite a few times. I've never done it myself, but I don't think strangling someone is, is he easy task like how he looks at you Ray when he says that not me let go. He knows my history. Oh my God. The need of these can access weapons at all, if they have have weapons if it's part of their standard profile, or something that they are commonly seen with Chucky, the butcher. The butcher knife years, and I would say that there's always something zones. There's always always something serious. Okay. So check. He's got a butcher knife tunes going to have a dagger. You boys have put me in a quite a conundrum year. Tyrians pretty good with an axe. I just don't know of an ax is going to be lying around. I don't think it axes present. I think they both are carrying what they have with them. So butcher knife versus dagger mass manipulation versus pure psychopath was this, what we news. You're gonna play some type of tumbleweed music. Hold west. We'll talk amongst ourselves. Man, you raise your new raise right shirt? Hashtag raise right. Shirt is very bright. It is really, really bright. It's brighter than the standard red stag, who would win shirt have I vamp enough. Are you ready to render your verdict? Yes. Okay. So I see Chucky Chucky Chucky does major damage. He's doing major damage Tyrian is somewhat hanging with them. I think Chucky gets Tyrian on the brink of death and because of Tyrian superior intellect and survivability he figures out that after probably cutting, I wanna say cheque's arm off, Chuck, he's probably lost a leg may or may not have lost a head at this point, and is still going Tyrians gonna face. I don't think he's going to be scared at the of the supernatural. I think he's probably seen a white Walker this point. He's going to figure out these gotta go for the heart, and I think that's going to lead Tyrian two. Probably in a very last. Gasping breath, stabbing Chucky in the heart. I think he's going to, I think Terry is gonna win. I, I am in a state of disbelief right now, are you kidding around now? Yes. And stabbing him in the heart. Not gonna do anything the six ways that Chucky been defeated twice being shot not going to happen in acts not going to happen. Inflating the head. Not gonna happen. The guy tells at the child play taking it back to the first one. The blue man tells the cop was named Norris or something like that tells them that the only way to kill Cecchi is to or to kill Charles at that point is to stab him in the Har, meaning the heart and I think, yeah, I think I think Tyrian figures that out. I can't believe that ability of Chucky cheese pudding, Syria, somehow, he's going to have the strip, this is this is disgusting. How does this flat disgusting shamed? Of you right now. How so in correcting at home must be outraged and throwing things outside the windows of their cars. If they're listening to this. Warning people on the freeway right now, there is obstacle in the road because people are so invited by this decision. I said, what does it say Joseph, I gotta tell you. I think he made a great decision great process. I think you stabbed Ray through the heart right now with his at her hers Ray doesn't it doesn't it? Disbelief right now. I cannot believe how obvious this decision is to screw it up the way that you did. Joseph you're looking at Ray right now. What do you what what's going through your head? Like, what, what's the what's the process of like how disgusted you are with raise behavior right now? I mean, this is not a classy way to handle a loss. I'm not discussed it he thought put a lot of a lot of passionate to this. And in a very admirable attempt because being corrected. All things is admirable Teva ripped from you inconsequentially is not. Do you know what was on the line, listening to any point? I made today on the line for rate today. Joseph was nothing. But the point is the point is that he's have to wear as raise. Right. That's right. He's gotta wear. No. He's got it will just wear the regular shirt. That's the punishment. Actually. It's a very what they give it this way. You may have lost the battle again shockingly? But how good you look in the shirt, I look great in the shirt shirtless. I've said raise right? Is a state of being in a state of mind, not necessarily a day to day decision. Joseph, I am. I am very disappointed in you right now. I think you have to be like level. Nine in Scientology to even wear a hashtag raise right shirt right now. I mean that's how like it's Ray and Tom Cruise that's it. Unlike being level nine and Scientology this costs a lot less. True. Okay. Well, yeah Ray Bradbury, Joe civil, thank you very much for being on the show time, we're gonna let you do Joseph remind me next time, I invite somebody from the Facebook group to not do it because to me, why the Facebook group is so awesome. You did a great job. He's always doing. Tell everyone, again where they can find you guys can find me on Instagram at Joey is famous, I have a at the behest of race to Kansas reactivated my Twitter account block is find me at points off wins on Twitter, Facebook me, friend me, you know, enjoy all my that I put out. I sure did. Be on the lookout for the, the pimps short film. You can catch me in the latest comedy central original sketch LeBron versus MJ, as well as every third Saturday. Eight pm at the pack theater. Sixty four seventy Santa Monica boulevard. Come out and watch mixed signals and of China to vomit from laughing too hard. Love it vomiting. All right. It's not from laughter disgust you could find Ray crying in the fetal position in the shower while eating chocolate. I don't know. Ray where can people find you the confessional? Telling my pastor how disgusted I am of the evil thoughts that I've had flowing through me for the last three minutes, there's no church that would accept you come on. I mean if you pay them enough out. Well, okay, let's you and. And what about what on Twitter where can you want? You can find me out almighty Ray again, I don't even know what to say at this point the outrage through the people and the people are really all I can lean on right now. Because Joseph, you're obviously just making poor decisions and I just I feel bad for you. I feel terrible for you that you would. Shame yourself in such a way. It's such a public stage being a fan of the concept of being a fan of the show, you would come in here and quite frankly, embarrass yourself in front of the entire world is outrageous to me, so you can find me somewhere mad correct? Correct me wrong, but would Rabi like the perfect audience member for like a Maury Povich show. Right. Like this is man for casting. If you need an audience, member, who's gonna like just jump to, like crazy conclusions. Right. Like you're not the father, then. Absolutely expect to be an audience plan at one of my shows, I love it. I love it. All right. Well, you can find me pose my question of the day on Twitter at James Gavin. Remember to join the official who would win Facebook group to make a suggestion for a matchup for the show and be part of our growing community. And check out the hood win website at www who would win show dot com to access all of our podcast episodes as well. It's check out some great articles on behalf of myself race again and the rest of the amazing would win team. Thank you for listening to another episode of who would win. We'll see next time.

Chucky Tyrian Lancaster Tyrian Lancaster Tyrian Charles Lee Ray Tyrians Lancaster Joseph Pleasants Joseph Tyrian Chuck arm Terry Lancaster Chuckie Facebook James Gabby Tyrian Lancaster blackwater Netflix writer
Game of Thrones Season 8, Ep6: "The Iron Throne"

Kotaku Splitscreen

1:27:30 hr | 2 years ago

Game of Thrones Season 8, Ep6: "The Iron Throne"

"Hey listeners listen. Why not? Because I have a sexy voice not because I have very important things to say what you wanna listen because it makes you smarter. It makes you more connected to people it makes you better partner better. Parents, better leader, and there's no better place to start listening. Dan, audible Ottawa's where so many inspiring voices and compelling stories. Open listeners up to new experiences in ways of thinking, audible members have access to all kinds of stuff. You get to choose three titles every month one audiobook, plus to audible originals that you can't hear anywhere else. You also get access to New York Times the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post delivered to the audible app every single day. They're bestsellers self-help books memoirs biographies. It's all there I listened to Tina phase bossy pants recently. It's hilarious. Okay. Listen up. This is what you do. We're going to hook you up with a thirty day free audible trial. All you gotta do is go to WWW dot. Audible dot com slash split-screen. That's audible a U. D I, B L, E dot com slash split-screen. SP. L. I. S. C R, E N. Or you can just text split-screen to five hundred five hundred we'll hook you up thirty days. Audible on us audible in your ear hope. Welcome one and all be north south or west of the wall, took a talk you split screen special coverage of game of thrones season eight my name is Kirk Hamilton. I'm joined by my co host Jason schreier to talk about the iron throne, the sixth and final episode of the season. And of the show, I note before we get started this conversation. We'll discuss the events of every aired episode of the show, including this one as well as all the events in the books. It will not discuss any leaks spoilers, nor will discuss the next time on preview because this was the last episode of the show, and neither of those things exist. Jason this episode was the end of game of thrones. Big picture, what did you think so? I thought that there were some cool moments. I've thought there was some really awful moments. And I think overall it would have hit so much harder. If it all hadn't been so rushed, for example, Dinara says rain at the as a mad Queen lasted for a whopping fifteen minutes. And if that had been an entire season or even entire episode of setup and politicking and figuring out what was actually going to do beyond her Nazi imagery, it would have hit so much harder and been so much more interesting when John finally Slade her, but that said just from a big picture perspective, if you just watch this as an episode of TV it was sheer spectacle, just incredibly well done. Well, produced the problem is, if you think about it for locker than a couple of minutes, then it all starts to fall apart. So big picture this entire season was just a big Wapping disappointment for me despite having some really cool moments and it's actually made me even more excited for the books because now that we know kind of big picture, some of the broader strokes of where things are headed, for example. I'm sure that brand will become king in Georgia Martin's story, as well. I'm looking forward to seeing that story resolved in a way that isn't pace these past seasons. Were. So those are my overall thoughts. Yeah. I think I share your thoughts in general. They're, they're like, two really good pieces of criticism of this show, the second one that I recently read that have kind of put the whole show in general in an nice context for me, but I agree generally that I thought this was like a pretty fine episode of TV that were, you know, it was okay. I could have been better in some places and worse than others. But as a big pictures, send off to the show like it's very difficult to look at this finale, just as an episode on its own without looking at both the season which has its own whole laundry list of things to talk about. And then the show itself as a whole, which also has its own whole laundry list of things to talk about, so, yeah, they're definitely plenty of things that didn't make sense like you said, and I agree that probably the biggest technical hurdle that they were facing really in these last two seasons was the fact that they were half seasons, and they just did not seem to have enough time to come. And they wanted to the other thing that. Really bugs me is the fancy service, and I expect a little bit of answer is like gain bowl. I'm totally okay with that sort of service, but the fan service of having a small council of Tyrian, Braun, Davos, Sam, like just having all your faves together or like having suddenly Ganji is, is in this lowers conversation of the lords of west rose, and look it's all your favorite characters from before or all the characters you forgot about. I'll look Robin are in his ear, and he thought now just that sort of fan fiction is like so what the past two seasons have done and done so poorly and done. So in such a corny fashion that I think that is really bugged me because it was so not what the show was and not what the books were. Yeah, there's a basically, there's been this huge shift in the in the way that the show works like in every respect, and that was definitely on display. I mean that's been on display for these last few episodes. But I was super on display during the. Yes. Yeah. Especially, like, hey, we're going to talk about whores and. Some, some. Is. Council now that really makes a lot of. Well, we'll get there. Let's start at the beginning this episode begins. I actually think pretty strong. Like I was I was certainly paying very close attention to the first twenty minutes of this episode. Oh, yeah. It was so tense. Riveting. So tyrian. We open on a very long shot of Tyrian walking through the ruins of the city just passed corpses piled on top of just charred corpses. Very horrifying. John in Davos are walking behind him. They sort of pass by all these streets, and they end up at that child's toy that aria saw this sort of roasted child with, with its toy Tyrian is going to go ahead to keep John tells them, it's not safe between like I'm going to go alone. So as this is happening. We also we cut to grey worm, who is in the midst of sentencing Lantis prisoners to be executed. John is there now. So he's passing by. And he says, hey, wait a minute. Maybe don't kill those guys like they're prisoners of war that's sort of messed up and grooms like, Nope. Doing it and killing these guys John tries to kind of stop him almost escalates into physical confrontation. The unsullied are ready to kill Davos, and John, but as is on brand for him the escalates, and they leave grey worm, and he begins slitting the prisoners throats that was such a strange scene. I don't know if you. Notice that, so at first, when John came in gray was commanding all of his soldiers to kill the Lancasters, then when John leaves grey worm takes a knife and cuts. One of the guys throw it some self instead of commanding everybody. But then after cutting the first guys throat, I don't know if you noticed it's been in the background as John's walking away, you see where I'm just put the knife away. And so it's not clear. Yeah. It's a very strange. It was just poorly poorly shot. I think what it was, and it was so clear, even from here that we were going to get into this whole, that there was going to be this whole, like racial subtext to all of us where, like the unsullied are all not white people, and the two white guys are, like, hey, people have caller. Don't be brutal and kill our white brethren executing the white people. And I'm like, oh, man. This whole thing is like could've play out this way, isn't it? So that was a bummer. Yeah. Kind of a weird scene. And like you said, last episode is has increasingly portrayed grey, worm is just this mercilus killer, which, I guess he sort of was in some senses. But I don't know. I don't like what has become of great worm who that? I that I really like him dirty. You might just an empty vessel now. So Tyrian goes into the red keep this is all really beautifully shot. He walks through the destroyed map room climbs his way into the under craft and of course, finds Jamie's golden hand sticking up out of the rubble, he, he digs some rocks off of Jamie and Searcy. And finds them one last time and Saab's. This is Peter, Dan clinch really just delivering in the scene. He's a great actor. He is good at his job. But also the scene was a little bit. You know. Okay. Really goes and finds their body. Fine and can tell who they are. This is another thing where like if you watch it just on face face on its surface. It just looks beautiful and it's like, really cool scene. But then you think about it for your for two seconds, and you're like, wait a minute. So enough rocks fell to kill Jamie, but not to smother the rest of the room like the rest of the room is totally open, and find just, just a pile of Jane's love to look that good. If I get crushed. Their faces. It's still gorgeous. Yeah. It's, it's just. I mean it's just bad. It's like it's television and game of thrones for. So long was like, not television. It was like something else. Didn't follow the rules TV. And this is like just going back to that, or it's like, oh, of course, we, we see this even though it doesn't make sense, because we have to see Tyrian discover, and get that emotional catharsis. So it's like once again, writing towards the outcome and not actually following where the story should chemically go. Yeah. I was very TV moment to, to get to see the faces of the actors one last time and then they get credit for the episode or whatever it just felt very TV ish. So we cut back to the streets are is moving through the streets watching the unsullied lineup outside the castle. This is the Nazi moment you too early earlier that with Raqi or sort of circling on their horses yipping in whooping as they do the later standing, stoic, as they do. There's this big flight of stairs with this huge black Turgeon flag hanging. Which I saw people point out. Maybe if they had noticed, the huge black Nazi flag that they were bringing to us, they would have known earlier that this was all going to go bad. But maybe they just had a made really quickly for this moment, one. They had their history. So they didn't know about the Nazis. That's true. I guess Sam Charlie knew about the Nazis, right? Well, brand probably knew all of human history, so drug on flies over that threat, your super psyched deniro. We get this iconic shot of that actually was a little overwrought for me. I know people really liked it. But I was a little like, okay, whatever. Yeah. This was written and directed by Bennie off at a no, like they've had better directors on this show, but that, that is kind of cool looking Juergens wing sort of unfurling behind that she enters the frame. She's like all dressed in black looking very much that they woke the dragon you could say that you could say that, that maybe is what has happened. She calls out to the blood riser writers of the doth Raqi ends like you kept your word. We killed them in their stone houses, and she names grey worm commander of her forces and says you're great. And it's all just very ominous and it's also very racially charged. I gotta say, I was watching this knows like man. This is there is just no way to avoid what's happening in the scene. And the show doesn't comment on it in so that way of, like, oh well whatever this is just the world we're in. And this is how it happened. But I was like, this is really weird like all the people who call are like the scary invading force, and all the white people are on the outside looking horrified at this turn of events. So, yeah. Deniro's gives the speech. She's like this war isn't over. We're going to liberate the world. She, and of course, makes murderer is this is very bad. The army is very excited. So are, are you is horse was that just Pacific dream like what the fuck happened with the horse thing? I mean, I guess she rode the horse out of the city, and then she wasn't out of this at issues in the city, and then she came back, I think road out and read out act and then came back, but that entire sequence. That entire final sequence that entire sequence of last season of last episode just did not pay off any possible way. It was all it all turned out to be pointless. Don't you think all the people who are working on theories whose horse that was really glad that the time to? The time to. Yeah. I think they're upset right now because suddenly, the game of thrones media industry is about to tank and all these websites. Go business said we're going to come up with. Yeah. Westworld season through trailer was super. Chew up, so Tyrian approaches deniro's after sort of addressed her other advisers, and she's like you committed treason. He cops to it and says, we'll K but you committed mass murderer. He takes his hand of the Queen offense, sort of throws down the stairs in front of everyone. And she has taken prisoner. What did you think of Tyrians finally standing up to deniro's was this, the moment for, we're about to get to this a little bit? But as I kind of called and have been saying like predicting this whole time Tyrian was totally in love with denarius and emits it. And one of the next scenes, which I think actually helps justify for me at least is character as I said a couple of weeks ago. And we were talking more about like the way the Tyrian has deteriorated the season in the last season. It makes a lot more sense if you think of mysterious, and the guy who's one weakness has always been falling in love with people. He shouldn't fall in love with that happened with Tisha happened with a shea, and now it happened with dinners. So that to me actually helped and I'm getting a little head of myself ahead of the recap. But that's helped justified Tyrians behavior over the past few weeks. I feel like it would have been nice if they'd like illustrated any of that on the show. But it's no, I don't know. The subtlety of that is, is good. I think and I think they did the Tyrian the look that he gave at the end of season, seven, when John and Danny went to go sleep together. I think that said a lot. So I'm actually into that. I will say despite negative. I've been about this whole season. I actually I'm really into that particular like subtle plot. Sutter subtle character. Arc seems like something that will be probably fleshed out in the books, when they definitely are published and because just going to act as foregoing conclusion for sure. And then we will definitely get two more books. Okay. So John aria briefly chat, Arias says that she was here to kill. John is like, why are you here, which I thought was sort of funny, because? I think he may be just didn't even know she was going to be in king's landing, and he's sort of. Yeah. We'll. Off on their own, which is just sort of that, that he didn't even know she was there. She says I was here to kill but deniro. Beat me to it. She also points out the fact that John will always be threat to and that, she that aria knows killer when she sees one. So then we get a lengthy scene with John interior. Seen seen episodes. Yeah. Give people some time to act and portray their feelings on screen. So there's a lot that happens here. Let's see. Let's go down. So I hear and makes jokes about various ashes telling him I told you so which feels a little too soon for me since it literally just happened like an hour ago. But if this had been stretched out over a reasonable number of episodes, that would have been better joke. John tells Tyrian that in his experience, there is no life after death interior says, maybe that's for the best since I've done so many bad things. He lists all the people. He's killed in the bad things. He's done. He admits the various was right. And that deniro's was always about fire and blood. And that was kind of always her thing, the two of them argue about what genetics destiny whether genetics destiny. John points out that. Taiwan was a monster. And the Tyrian isn't John keeps defending deniro Petitjean like dude, you know, that if you've been on drug on, if you had been in that position, you've felt that power, you would not have just killed a bunch of people in John knows. Right. Actually thought that kit Harrington did a really good job in the scene, just in the first parts of the check considering that it's like a pretty hollow role in. John is like a really challenging part kind of an empty character. He did a good job. So first time that John actually make a decision and England. And this is the finest moment, John ever had being a dumb ass for eight seasons. Like actually does something for. Yeah. So they keep they keep kind of going back and forth. Tyrian is is trying to convince John that he needs what he needs to do that. He needs to kill John says he loves her Tyrians like I loved her to just as you as you mentioned, tears has not as successfully as you. But I believe in her with all my heart John says the love is the death of duty which they attribute to Maistre Ayman, which is a nice little shoutout to Mr. kinda surprised. No one has mentioned Maistre Ayman, otherwise, like that there was this other target area. And then I don't know think that maybe he would have come up in John's lineage, but he didn't. But it's nice that he at least gets name checked in this. Finale, Tyrian says the sometimes to the death of love the soul, like sounds really good and clever. But I haven't sat in really meditated on loving the death of duty and then duty being the death of love. I guess kind of work, we can maybe tease that in a second. Well, the whole idea of the nights watches that they don't take lives because they have to do their duty. And that will always come first. And that's that's been. I remember there was some stuff in season. One, that's like always a conversation about what when Ned stark too, if he was faced with a choice between duty and love. And that's part of his whole thing is duty versus love is him taking John snow and adopting him his own. I just mean like duty is the death of love. Sounds good. But, like also, you can do your duty because you are protecting the people you love. And if you go join unites watch it's like I'm leaving behind, but it's because I love you need to protect around. I don't know. I'm not total. It all sounds. I think it all sounds a little clever than it is. But anyways game of thrones in a nutshell right now anyways. So basically, they he turns the words of the night, the night's watch on John. He's like you're the shield of the realm of men, you need to protect us, John says, no and says she's my Queen, and that's just the way it is. But as he's leaving -tarian makes a last ditch appeal and what about your sisters, you know that Sandra is not going to cooperate. And you know what that means Jonah actually seems like he kinda got through to him and tears. Like you have a choice in this, but you need to choose now. Yeah. So as as much as I really like this scene is my favorite of the episode. I think it was really well done. And finally got some Peter includes like doing doing the right thing for once. This would have been so much better. If it was just extended over the course of an episode, and it was like, and that was about John trying to make this difficult decision. It's funny we could almost have shorthand for this critique, you know what I mean? Like we just because I literally every single thing in this. But this is specially just stood out to me something where it's like that wrestling with that decision could have been so much more consequential. If this, this was the one biggest thing, I think of this episode that, like just should have been longer. But yeah. I hear you make sense. Right. The longest seen this was kind of the longest conversation would be one that would stick out the most as would be even better if it were a long seen about thing that had been built, but yeah, no, it really is. I think safe to say at this point that every single scene in this episode would be better would have been better. If it had more time in if everything that it was about had had more time to develop. Right. Also, one of the things that I noticed that the scene. One of the reasons that scene was so good was because of all the tension, knowing that something has to happen, but not knowing. Janna play out. And then I think, after it all plays out, which we're about to get to you, then suddenly, the tension has gone and the rest of the episode is just like like a like a balloon deflating. Yes. Yeah. Agreed with you that this the reason I was riveted for the first twenty minutes was because there was a thing that I knew had to happen or some conflict brewing. Yeah. I didn't know how it was going to actually on that note. Quick quick divergent. Tangent. Course engines. Okay. So I read this excellent point on a Reddit thread, so credit to read it. And they were quoting they were quoting Alfred Hitchcock. And it's called that I had heard before back in college studying storytelling. And suddenly, I was like holy shit like this explains everything and the quote is basically, I'm gonna paraphrase the difference between a good storytelling needs the difference between surprise and suspense and surprises. When you're in a room and you're two people are in room talking to each other, and then a bomb goes off and kills them both and suspense is when two people in a room talking to each other, and use the audience see the bomb ticking down, and it's going to go off in fifteen minutes. And you're watching the audience, you're watching the two guys talk to each other, and they have no idea this is going to go off and the clock is ticking. And you're like, oh my God. Oh my God. And Hitchcock's argument is that surprise has its moment says its merits for plot twists and whatnot. But suspense is what really creates tension and storytelling and drama, and I was just thinking about the fact that, like, imagine if son of some of the moments in this season that have been so stupid used suspense instead of surprise, one of them being for example, Ray goal getting killed, and imagine if instead of Reagan fucking getting hit by out of nowhere because Benny often waste wanted this cheap plot twist, imagine if we had seen the iron throne coming, and we had seen urine preparing and we'd seen them setting up their crossbows. And we have this incredible, like, ten minutes of tension as we see flying like unbeknownst to her like they're all setting up for an ambush, and we got that tension instead of sudden surprise wouldn't have been so much better as a story and this scene, I think, in the first twenty minutes of this episode is just the perfect example of that of how much better suspense can be surprise. Yeah. It's like a structural. Not that I think is applied to the show for the first couple of the last couple of seasons process versus results as well. It's just that when the show was more about process, it was interesting on its own, and it was interesting to watch the process, not even necessarily because it builds suspense, but also just because it's interesting to watch the parts move and things come into shape there, some stuff later that we'll talk to you. That's very process versus product, the result, and the result, just happens. And we don't get to see any of the process and the result were left asking a lot of questions that it's not even that. They would have answered those questions. It's just that seeing them, get from a to point b we'll just be fun to watch on its own and the fact that we are so continually robbed of that, because they wanted to surprise us, or she had us something is definitely. I mean it's a choice like they. Yeah. How do suspense because if you look back at the Caesar finale, where blows up sept- like we do that was coming. We got to see every every tense moment of it. We're watching artery so good. Oh, yeah. Totally. And we're watching Margery Tyrell and we're like, oh my God, you've got to get out of there and you could just feel every moment of it. And yeah, so they know how to do this, they just chose not to for whatever reason because Star Wars was coming, so yeah, let's keep going. All right. Let's keep going. So we get a nice very cool. Looking moment with between John drogue on outside of the keep is John heads up to of shakes off his the snow that's on him. And it's very very dark souls. Boss, introduction cut seen. Someone tweeted this at me that someone has already made this into a dark souls, cut scene, where Jonah's walking, and then Juergen shakes off, and you see the life bar or the health of your. Yeah, they don't fight. So I guess it's not quite a dark, souls, boss, fight sniffs. John, let's impasse because, of course you can smell the targe, Aryan blood. Or at least. That's what I assumed deniro. We now get a scene between two narrow and her one true. Pairing the iron throne, the nearest walks in and sort of, is the iron throne and begins to walk toward the throne room is essentially destroyed. But the throne itself is still intact. It's covered in ashes the prophecy, you. Yeah, the, the game of thrones theme remains is game of thrones deeming play extremely epic version of it. I thought with a solo vocalists, and it was extremely good thought the music and the scene was great. She still the approaches. The throne also thought Emilia Clarke did a good job in the scene. Her faces sort of lit with this intense intensity in power. She reaches out and touches the iron throne she turns to sit on it, and who should be standing in the doorway, but Jon snow, and she never actually cents worth noting. Nope. Nope. She was about to set, but then she sees John, so they talk a little bit in. John is immediately angry with her, and it was like I can't believe he's like you're executing prisoners. You murdered all of these civilians. She says we can't hide behind small mercies the world. We need won't be billed by men, loyal to the world. We had. He says the world also needs mercy. She promises him it will be a good world. And he says, how do you know a good world? And she says because I know what's good promising. She says you should just be with me together, we can do it. We can break the wheel together. John says you are my Queen now on always embrace and then he stabs her out of the frame and she dies to the end. Jonathan ARIS had no chemistry. Yeah. That this scene was fine. Like I mean like you said, this was the moment when all of the tension, immediately vanished from the episode because the minute this happened, that was, like, okay. Well, now we're happens happens to the conflict that we were kind of waiting to see happened. It was a little thing. Actually, there's some more attention coming up in the next. And what's about to happen? I guess that's true. The drug on shows up seems very angry notices deniro's bodies mother is dead. He gets ready to breathe fire on John, but of course, even while I was watching this. I was like he's not going to test, John, and then he'd instead demonstrates that he's been paying closer attention to this plot. Then we realized and turns right and directs his flame to the iron throne and melts it down into molten metal drug gun. Welcome to the resistance. Then he picks up his body and flies off. Yeah. I feel like on is the attributable to his absolute power corrupts absolutely drug on. So stupid. Like how just makes. Sense. Why would why would a dragon burn the iron throne so stupid leaves me with a bunch of questions like how smart is drug on can communicate in other ways? Or is he I, I want to know more about dragons? I mean, we're forgetting that drug on also killed innocent people and burnt them to Crispin drogue, on's perspective. He's a dragon that would be like killing a rabbit or something. For sure that makes a lot more sense than him burning the iron throne. I've been paying attention to in trouble don't like it. It looks comfortable. Maybe he just has a problem with erga. He's like, there have been huge advances in seating, in the last hundred years since, since they first built, this thing I'm just going to melt it down for you. You're gonna thank me later. We're going to get you some nice lumbar support there. Some way better. Yeah. For sure can't you that Aron chair that you're looking for? Right. It just it just is baffling. How dumb that was. That was the part, I think I was really enjoying the episode up until drogue on melts the throne, and then I was watching another couple of friends and my wife and we all just kind of laughed at that. And we were just like, oh my God. So this is how they're going to end this show with, like a fucking dragon burning the symbol of the monarchy to start the socialist, like what is this? Why would he do that? What do you think they're thinking is buying this? Oh, they're thinking is that it's not exactly that he's melting the monarchy. He's saying, basically this like neither of you should have this. No one should have this power. Right. Which, of course, is thinking. Yeah. Because like right they're trying to make this like surprising character turn for drug on which makes no sense with what we even kind of killing kind of serious. But, like what we understand of Durban's character, which is he's just like a super powerful semi God, being that just kills things win. Deniro's tells him to. Yeah, I agree. It's, it's, it's very silly and sort of. It's a thin Matic muddle, especially given how this show actually ends like it's not clear who were supposed to, like, which person we're supposed to understand or sympathize with or which perspective on the nature of power, the show is embracing, which isn't the end of the world, the show doesn't have to take an extremely clear point of view. But it definitely makes it feel more muddled by the time we're at the end. Everyone's just anyone is trying to figure out what this shows trying to say about power and governance and people and anything it meshes with this theory that I've seen circulating a lot, which is that the show runners have absolutely no care or respect for the fantasy elements of the show. And that's why they didn't give a fuck about drug on or the Nike or, or any of the stuff the prince promised or any of the stuff that just never paid off. Anyway. So I guess that kind of fits. Yeah. No, it does. And it kind of gets into I guess we can I can table this for, for when we talk about the full episode at the end. But there's definitely something. About the nature of magic in the way things work in this world that has been increasingly degraded, and unclear over time to where I don't even know, like, we don't know how smart drug on is our wider would make that choice. So that is that is very true. So he picks up his body and flies away. And that's the last we see drogue on. So, you know, he's taking her body, probably just eat her or something or very her. I don't know or have her brought back from the dead. Of course, is one popular theory, though, hopefully, not since this show is over for the spinoff, that's all about drug on. Right. Only the, the, the Derg on chronicles Huma, thrones gun chronicles. Yeah. All right. Well, let's take a break, and then we will come back after a time lapse and talk about how things shake out. I want you to tell me something. What is it that fascinates you about? True crime is psychology killer earth, simply trying to figure out who did it, whatever it is hunter killer has you covered punt killer the murder mystery box that immerses unit ongoing experience with every delivery, you'll dive deeper into what it's like to be a detective, you'll sift through piles of documents and evidence case files eliminating suspects until you crack the case and catch the killer, you'll be able to go online and access audio files and security footage. They'll even give Jin recipes and theme playlist, so you can drink a detective instead of staring at your screen, you can build investigation boards and work with friends, or online community to share your theories, and help each other through every challenge. Okay. Split spinners. We gotta deal just for you. Go to hunter killer dot com slash split screens. For twenty percent off of your first box they only accept two hundred members. A day. So hurry up and take advantage and get in there. That's hunter killer dot com slash Swiss screen points off. Points off your first box just for you. Hunter killer dot com slash split screen. And we're back we fade up on Tehran. Lying in his salad is not clear how much time has passed. But as we find out later quite a bit has the way. Yeah, I'm extremely upset. Once again, we were robbed incredible character scenes by knocking the sea grey worm discovering that his Queen has been murdered by John. Let's let's let me talk through the seat. Then we'll talk this because I completely agree with you. This is like the main my main gripe with everything that's about to happen is what you're getting into so grey worm, and the sullied bring Teheran out of his cell, not clear how much time has passed. They bring him into the dragon. Pit a group of people are waiting and surprise, surprise. It's all your faves, the Starks Davos Dornoch prince's there. I don't think he even gets a line, but there is no. Get to see him in his Dornoch yellow clothing. We see grownup, Robin, Aaron looking healthy and like a young man. Yara Ed Mirta league, the guys from the veil Sam, and we learn basically that grey worm has John and. Tyrian prisoner, and he is holding king's landing, but all the armies have marched are outside of their gates saying you need to return John to us. So they're kind of here because they need to choose a king or Queen. And that's what Tyrian informs them. So here we are way, ton of time has passed we didn't see any of this happen. Because as we have complained many times about this season. They wanted the moment where the camera comes into focus, and we see who Tyrian is standing in front of because we don't even know how much time has passed until now they make it clear that it's been several weeks. But this would have been really cool. This is the product versus process thing I was talking about the process of all of this happening of all these characters having the interactions that get them here of any of the preliminary debates and discussions could have shed so much light on the character motivation, and the political Macanese, and the broader just like socio political environment that west rose now is which I'm so curious about and one. To know more about and instead, like the, the Princeton even have a single line like nobody get almost nothing because they wanted the moment where we see that it's all of our faves sitting together. So that struck me as a miss as neat as it was to see all the actors in the same space free largely free of violent conflict, it was still just kind of. Kind of a letdown. Yeah. Such a bummer. Yeah. This whole scene was just kind of ridiculous. It was kind of a head scratcher, well, especially, because, like, even if you buy all these people have showed up here to try to figure out who the new king will be why is DAV Ohs and Sam Carly. Why are they in this small council meeting Dabo's even says, I don't know if I get a vote. Why are you? Vega that insurers wants you there. Right. So and also wise, Tyrian, the one giving speech he's like a prisoner and anyway, so great, like, okay, sure. Like, whoever you guys decide is king will get to choose what to do. What why where suddenly relinquishing power, whoever these random lords in a foreign land decide, and there's like there's an expert there could be an explanation for that. Like we later, we see the crewmen the unsullied leaving for nothing. They don't even want to be here. And there's a way we could have seen him expressing that and growing weary of trying to hold king's landing over the course of the weeks. There's definitely an explanation for him. Yeah. Fine. You guys speaker it out. I don't care. We didn't see any of it. So. Thirty seconds ago. Grey, worm was in one place, and now it's weeks later. And we didn't see any of this happen. We never find out what happens to the Joe th rocky, who absolutely would not give out west roses king would just be killing, and raping people. That's what they do. So for that, too just go by the wayside, like, we never see another death rocky again after Danny's speech is just another major question in an episode that just did not satisfying, resolve so much of this stuff mode. They were basically there to look scary during that scene. And then yeah, just dispense with, with wreck is we've seen kind of grow and shrink, depending on how many, we need to have survived the battle of winter. So. The real bummer is if this were just a show that had been like this, the entire time than it would have been fine. It would have been like schlocky like pulpy, great high-quality fantasy stuff. But because previous season's based on the books have all been so much about detail and rich character motivations and like so much of the stuff that isn't here. It just feels like this cognitive dissonance. That just really is like, that's why people and for on of you listening to this who are wondering, like, oh, my God wise. Everyone so negative on these seasons. They were just fun for me and they're fun to watch. I'll give you that they were totally fun to watch. It was a blast to watch this season television. But like this show that is trained us. All think one way is suddenly going back to the TV tropes. And that is really just like shocking like clash. All right. Let's go. Let's talk through what happens in the scene. So Edmore tally gets up to give a speech. This was actually a highlight for me. He gets up and starts to give this wandering speech about how important this moon isn't signs of just sort of admire tally, sit down shut the fuck up Sam gets up and proposes that they actually have a democracy, because that actually makes sense given the conversations they're having that what if all the people got to rule them? And they'll just laugh at him which was pretty cynical sort of funny, then Tyrian. That was good. Because like if it had ended with Sam deciding, we should have been cornball. Yeah. Come on, like the tone of this ending. We'll, we'll get there. But the tone of this ending was way too positive considering the textually it was a very mixed ambiguous. Maybe negative ending of. Yeah. Okay. These guys are just gonna fuck this up. But if they had gotten the tone, right, it would have totally worked because westerns is a disaster, and they're only going to slowly stumbled toward getting better. And okay that, that tracks with the history of ended up triumphant note. Yeah. Really? To talk more about solution in a bit. Yeah. So but I think it was funny that they all were like democracy. What accuracy? So Tyrian basically gives the speech about how it's not the things that unite people it's not fear and it's not money. It stories and that the stories are the things that, that, you know, you can't stop a store. He wants a story, and then he says, no one has a better story than brand the broken branch should rule. And in the future, all religion chosen by the lords, and ladies of west rose and not by brand children because. A couple of things here. First of all, first of all major fuck you to the person on Twitter, who tweeted Avni brand was going to become king two weeks ago, and therefore spoil this for you. So fuck off, dude. Gophers second of. Okay. Without out of the way that out of the way second of all for him to say. No one has a better story than brand the broken. Well, are you sitting there and be like, Hello? Learn. Yeah. Yeah. Are you in? Sitting there just being like Hello. Like I literally killed the godlike personification of death after I. And around the world grand story was so captivating that they literally did not include him in an entire season of the show. And the reason this is so frustrating is because he such a better character and the books, then he is in the show, and that's for a number of reasons. One is the acting another is just the way that they turned him into this personality enlists, dude, which I don't think is the direction. They're headed that, Georgia's headed in the books, but, like for them to say no one is a better story than him is absolutely absurd. All he did was like, get ho doors, brain, all fucked up like kill a bunch of people get saved by people who didn't even show up in this episode mirror read was totally forgotten about. And then, like, literally stand as a decoy for the night, king as bait while he rolled his eyes and war, and no-one. It's still not clear exactly what he was doing that entire time. So for brand to have the best story is just categorically absurd. Yeah. Let me. Have a couple of thoughts on this. Let me just talk to the rest of the scene. So basically Tyrian asks Branagh do andbranch. What do you think came all this way? Anyway. Okay brand. So, you know, everything fucking raven. We're all impressed, so Tyrians like I say, I two brand being king. And then Sam backs him up. It's not clear that why tearing gets the vote since he sort of, here's a prisoner, but I guess because he's Lancaster because the last remaining Lantis makes sense. I guess so he votes. Yes. Sam backs him up then everybody else along with Gandhari brea, and they all say, yes, then says actually the north will remain independent, so, you know, no, no worries brother, but we're going to be up here. And then Tyrian says, all hail brand the broken for his name brand asks Tyrian to his hand. Both tearing aren't happy about that, but brands like, hey will our brand is like, hey, it's shitty job. So it's kind of punishment if you have to fix all these things that you fucked up, which they seem okay with hand of the king. So. Yeah, I think that the thing with, with brand I've seen this pointed out that brand is the first POV chapter in the book. And so it sort of is the kind of thing, George Martin would do where like the very first character eventually is going to be the last carrot and his name brand builder. There's a lot of interesting interesting, lower power, though. I don't know how you got a name. So I guess you get a name because the person they're just names. You like why was he brand the broken while he was named after neds older brother brand title, the broken that's just because he's crippled? I guess because he would like for Tyrian to just call them brand. The broken. I know I saw some people joking about this on Twitter, ladies and gentlemen, brand the broken. It's just it's just brand. Probably band. Please. Maybe we can talk about the whole title thing, you know, there could be there could be other maybe names. So this strikes me, as something that George Martin told the show runners and they needed to get here, and then they were for both some, it seems like some logistical reasons than some creative reasons. Just unable to carry brand the distance that he needed to go over the course of the show. Like like you said he was gone for so long. He came back. Also, the actor grew up so significantly and became different looking. They just wound up with this strange other kind of character and, and other kind of an actor playing the role in a very strange way that only really kind of came together for the spinal season. And even then it's debatable. He key like became a mean like people kind of finally embraced him. But that for me didn't make it a good performance or make it really like him a convincing character because it's this fundamental problem with brand, and that's that we don't understand what the fuck he can do or what the three eyed raven is the fact that they never really explored that or export his powers, lease me asking, so many questions about what it means that he's going to be king. On the one hand it makes sense that they would make this small, but kind of important change to their system, and they would say, okay, it's no longer going to be about protecting your dynasty and your lineage. So when someone gets power, it's all about holding onto it because you can't hand power off to your children. So that's like that is a pretty major change considering, like, how things have worked up until now also putting someone in charge who doesn't have humanity in the same way and has this kind of robot mega mind view of everything. Also sort of bodes, interestingly are well, because brand doesn't have the same. Incentives, as someone Taiwian Lancaster or rubber breath, Ian, so that also makes sense, but there's so little explained about brand like about who he is about how his powers work about how he sees things or his decision making process or what kind of a ruler he might be that we're left like I don't I'm not even just guessing it. What kind of really be? I have no idea. The show has never indicated to me what he might be like. And I think that's at the heart of why it feels like such left field thing to make brand king, because we just have no idea we've been given no inkling of what kind of a ruler. He'll be safer. Yeah. Fuck knows how this is going to turn out. So here's an interesting thing. And this is why I'm really excited for the bucks even more excited than I was before. So in the books. So the guy who was originally the three I raven, and the books actually called us three I'd crow. But. You're going gonna lay out so it's a guy named Brinton rivers, aka Lord, blood raven. And he's got a lot of back story in the series. And he's really interesting character. He was played by what's his name. Von von sat out on, on whatever. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From servers. In the in the show in season, six of the show and. Yeah. So one of the fear is, and I really by this, because it makes for fascinating twist is that by becoming with three eyed raven or crow brand kind of merge, consciousnesses with blood raven and because blood raven is actually a target Syrian and has this backstory of being a pretty nasty evil. Dude suddenly were ending the show, and we have this, like Garin, hybrid, who might not be such good news actually on the throne which to me is a really fascinating depiction makes me want to see what will happen next and this would have been a perfect segue into a ninth season that explores brand king, and blood raven and all that stuff. So that, that's really interesting. But unfortunately, the show did not explore that even the slightest bit did not even hint at that, unless you consider brand going and trying to find a dragon by war gang or whatever hinting at that. But, but yeah, that, that if you think about it in that way. And maybe if you think if you think about that. And that idea that will get to where in the small council brand talks about. I was going to go find a dragon if we think about that in an ominous way, then it's kind of interesting. But yeah, just just an interesting. And more evil way of thinking about brand that kind of gives them personality to his personality lists meaner, right? Which even then? Right. Is still such a reach because they gave us so little to work with that. We're kind of. This hoping explore this, because that would be a really interesting outcome. I liked Iglesias. The political reporter tweeted something along the lines of never a good sign when your sister, immediately secedes. Which I thought was funny. Like maybe things aren't going to go great. I thought it was that everybody was just sort of okay with sons of like and the north will be independent, just fucking deal with it, and everyone else that's going to that alone. If you consider the political side of west coast, now is going to be such a humongous problem, immediately almost because the north is still an important part of west Rosen, does trade with all the other houses, and like they're going to have to work together on various things. But now they're independent. So sounds is just going to go. But then her brother is the kings. She's probably gonna get preferential treatment and the other people are going to be mad about that. And there was just notice of any of those two calories is not a show that cares about socio political do not have time longer. It is no longer show that cares about that stuff. So that just. Okay. I guess, everyone's just fine with signs, calling an audible, the last minute and seceding. But sure, whatever this is that was just another shorthand writing the outcome. Because all they wanted was sense that with that seen of her of everyone saying Queen and the north like that's what they're writing towards. Yeah. Which was great saying racist. Right. Instead of it doesn't actually have to make sense as long as they got the outcome. They want it sucks. Because like that scene if that scene if she had had some sort of a debate with somebody over, maybe it wouldn't have hurt that scene, you haven't made it a little bit more. Interesting anyways, Tyrian meets with John tells John that he is being sent to the night's watch. John has been a prisoner this whole time and looks kind of messed up, John sort of still doubtful, about Killington Harris. He's like, we do the right thing and Tyrians has asked me ten years, which fair. Fair enough. John says we probably won't see each other again between season show. So sure he calls back to him visiting the wall when John Lewis. I there in the first season he says, I may come north to piss off the edge of the world. One more time. John walks through landing walks along the docks. Grey worm is there on a ship with the unsullied, getting ready to head to noth- to finally go to the beaches of Naf without in the Sunday, sniff means with aria sons brand on the docks. Kind of this thing is very return of the king all of this. He's sort of gets to say, oh, and Sam miss you, and Marian pip YouTube. So, you know, he goes tells spare she's the best north could ask for aria tells him she's not going home. She says, what's west of west rose, and nobody knows even brand who think would know that? And so says, we'll that's where the map stop. And that's where I'm going, and John says, if you've got your needle, and she says that she does and they embrace, and she's crying. And it's very sweet because those actors and characters, but it all kind of makes no sense. John kneels in front of brand says, I'm sorry. I wasn't there for you and branches you needed to be because brand is the worst. And John gets on a boat and heads north Dicky's landing. So that was our, our goodbye. Yeah. Like you said. All sweet. But makes no sense. If you think about it, if you just watch it, and you're just like not even just tuning out like not even thinking about meditating, then it's very enjoyable. So yeah, a couple of things here, first of all. So interesting reference aria talking about what's west of us jobs is actually reference to something. She said in season six when she was talking to lady crane in Bravo's about, like what's west of west rose? And she was wondering about that. So just an interesting throwback, but this is such a shitty resolution to Arias story. And it just feels like to transformer into suddenly, she's aria. The explorer doesn't really make a lot of sense might have made more sense if she got, like one final cathartic moment, but they really seem to not play that they just didn't give her a good resolution for her and tire story. All that training was just so she could kill the night, king. And then go to king's landing and do nothing. And then find a horse and then. Leave like I just don't get it. Man. I maintained that my preferred ending for, for aria would have been for her to kill I guess, survey or something to kill one more person, and then in the final episode Jack in her guard turns up and really, it would have been so cool, if he had basically implied that he was here to kill her, and that her purpose had been served, but then they had left ambiguous, whether he act like what happens and that was the last we sorry, I don't know, clink blades. And that's the. That would or they don't even clink blades. Right. And they just are looking each other, and we just don't know and that kind of an ending, as unsatisfying that would have been, and it would have made people mad that actually would have been great and kind of fitting where this, yeah, I'm going to go explore the world is much more. Like you said, it's it feels much more fantasy it feels much more uplifting and exciting. Because now we can just imagine on her adventures, or the spinoff show this show, which I would totally watch the hell out of our shell show, so fun. So that is like a fun cool ending, but it's not like satisfying in the way that game. It's not a game of thrones satisfying, which is to say it's not actually kind of unsatisfying and Samarasinghe in a in a certain way. So I'm and with you on that. I can't imagine that's where the books are going. But I guess we might never know or maybe we'll find out one day, but I just can't see Arias entire path leading to just this Kerr to go off west of west rose with a bunch of random soldiers. Like I just don't you have to wonder I would love to see what the. Outline the G R gave to the show runners looks like whether it just is just goes bad. John kills her. You know, whatever brand becomes king, and it's just a couple points or how detailed it was. I would imagine at some point, they're going to talk about that. I have any reason not to, and I think that'll be really interesting to know what the reason is because they don't want to spoil what he's doesn't. I mean at some point in the books have been eligible. Years from now, when this is all said and done, we will actually know what they were going, and I will be very interested. And I'm hopeful that, that information comes out because. Yeah, that'd be interesting. It's just frustrating Arias entire resolution was the hound telling her to not go kill so she and her just being like thank you sand. All of seasons of her becoming more and more cold and heartless and more of a faceless killer, literally just to turn away from that path because the hound told her not to kill Searcy is I just don't buy it. And then the horse stuff leading nowhere is just that was super frustrating. The way they treated REM this upload after especially after the ending last episode is just very, very frustrating. So we got to paging through the white book in king's landing with all the entries for each of the members of the king's guard, she passes known names like Sir Arthur Dane, his name, and garrison sell me, and then she comes to James page, and she takes out a pen and fills in there. List of his entry sort of adding all of the heroic things that he did in the second sort of second act as a night, how he fought for the living in the north, how he pledged himself to protect, and then she ends by saying he died protecting his Queen, which is very generous of her thought and also led to very funny. Meam online, as I don't know, if these this is probably my favorite meal to come up this episode is to writing, and then thinks, and then it shows her and she's just reading total fuck boy. So the last time we saw her she was sobbing and shouting, Jamie the for leaving. And now suddenly she's turned around on him and doesn't and. This week, she could have had a whole thing dealing with this also, if they hadn't rushed their relationship. I mean this is that same. It's the same problem. Everything. Is could have been so much better if they just given it like another season. That's all they needed was, and this season, one pretty pretty clear. That's, that's a no in the end. Yeah. That's just so frustrating and, and the season on dinar is going bad, then having entire season explore that would have been still fascinating. Yeah. That was cool moment, though, Brienne becoming Lord commander is that actually makes a lot more sense than fucking, Padres showing up and being a night of the king's guard also like the rest of the fan service stuff of all the fan service things that are like the characters winding up all these different positions Brienne, making being commander at least make sense. She since she's one of the best warriors soldiers in the in the realm, and it's cool to have her writing in the book, because the book is such a big part of Jamie story in the books like he spends a lot of times staring in contemplating, and all of the Lord's commander that came before him and just thinking about how he hasn't been able to live up to any of them. And there's a lot of interesting stuff there. Although it just reminds me how, how much they ruined Jamie's entire arc, which is a bummer brands like you know what? I really hate what Benny often have done to Jamie's I'm gonna try to fix it here in, in this. Right. All the good parts of his ark. And then we're just going to gloss over this shitty ending that they screwed up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Brand is a little revisionist history, kind of unintended meta commentary Jamie's character arc. All right. So now we get this small council seen Tyrian enters the small council chambers sort of looks at the hands chair sits down takes in the room. Rearranges the seats and then in walks small council, which is dominos Braun Sam is wearing Maistre rose is the Lord commander of the king's guard and yeah, this is a very, very fancy this'll. Become a masonry, so quickly that requires years of study. Maybe here's a pass now. Well, you know, a lot of maser dead. And maybe they changed the rules. I don't know. So Sam shows Tyrian the book he's been working on, which is called a song of ice and fire, and we even see the title page. It's written out, which is just funny and says it's account of the of the wars after Albert's death. Sanchez, he held with the title, they joke about that a little bit Tyrian asks how, how hard are they on me? And then it's revealed Tyrian isn't in the book, which sort of thing makes you think. Okay. Well, this is probably really bad count of what happened then. How, how can you not include the kings hand for like an entire season of show? Who's basically led the battle of the blackwater that makes sense. Tyrian did in the background. But there were also a lot of things the Tyrian did in the foreground that be mentioned in a comprehensive history totally and I mean it just feels like they just turned him into this comic relief character over and over again, and just really did not treat Tyrian with the respect that they should have treated him as a character. So brand enters points out that they're missing some masters is no master whispers need a Messer of whispers. I've seen people asking this brand can hear everything whether they need master was, I think maybe he's like just sticking to protocol and being like there's always a master of whisperers so share I think he should have a little bird that comes and like he works into. And that's the master whispers, they could even call the bird, Mr. whispers, and he can just show up and what do you think mister whispers and Mr.? And they go Mr. was freeze frame game of thrones game of thrones. So they are they've barely started meeting where they when they begin to wonder where drug on is brands like I'm actually going to go look for him. And just leaves just sort of. Just sort of. Rule in his face. Then we learned that Braun is the master of coin. Okay. Davos is the master of ships makes a little more sense. They argue some they bicker about budget. They bicker about grammar. And then there's a straight up west wing Thomas slam like slow pan out her slow. As, as they begin discussing whatever ruling the realm. And of course, maybe riffing about brothels and Bron aren't any brothels, and it becomes pretty clear, at least to me that Braun is going to be a huge problem. Terrible leader and doesn't care about anybody. So anyway. That's it's kind of like it's a tone, another tone content thing, where the tone is very light hearted like, oh, these people are going to do their best, and it's going to be fine, where the content is very troubling like, oh, these people are going to be terrible and all the all the normal the common people of western are going to suffer under their rule because they don't they're doing so. Yeah, yeah, I was extremely im- vigilant about the scene extremely frustrating. Like I thought I would feel something watching on this. And instead, I was just kind of indifferent because of some restraining. I just wrote, I was taking notes as we watch when after this, this is such fan fiction bullshit, inches, basically, how I felt about this second half of this episode. Yeah. This in particular, I think was pretty. It was kind of a lot. Sorry. You didn't mention that padras job is now a wheel around brand. Oh, yeah. Well, he's a king's guard. I mean to protect brands so. Well, yes, we'll them around. But I'm sure he is also protected him because he is now, sir. Patrick, I think we learned, of course. Hundred. Of course. Okay. Now we go to this final final montage between John son's aria. John arrives the castle black NC's torment waiting there for him smiling. John all get dressed sons addresses in one more. Unbelievably awesome outfit each of them sort of moves through the rank and file of their followers. John up at castle black sonza through the assembled lords of the North Korea pass the crew of her ship. Between the three well done the music. That's playing I believe is reminiscent of the same music that was playing aria set out for Bravo's several seasons ago. It's a very triumphant sort of children's chorus singing, the game of thrones seem theme are is at the helm of the ship heading west sons is crowned Queen in the north as her men chant for her John sees ghost one more time and smiles, and pets ghost during this montage. Now they can afford to. And then John takes a group of free folk and heads north of the tunnel north of the wall. And we fade to black on John and the free folk heading north of the wall into the unknown the end. So something, a lot of people wondered was like, why is there in night's watch? And I actually read that a different way, I read that as Tyrian knowing there wasn't going to be a Nightwatch and he was just letting John north because John just wanted to go north. Like like Norman said he belongs in the north, so. Yeah. I think I think there could still be like technically night's watch, but I agree. I think that I mean if history is any guide, sending John north is basically sending him to home, like sending him to the place where he spent the most time and rose everybody and all his friends were there. And you know, he's, he's very comfortable up there. So that's like on the flip side. It's like so Santa's ending is okay. We, this is exactly where are led her like this makes total sense works, right? Are ya? We discussed makes no sense that she's suddenly like Dora. The explorer John is, like, like totally incomprehensible. So he's gone tear Garin that plotline kind of fizzled out and went nowhere other than creating tension and only existed degree attention between him and he's heading north. We don't know why we don't know what him in tormentor doing together. We've no idea if he's just like going to look for another egret and settled down, or if he is going to look for more zombie used to kill or just. It's just ambiguous in an unsatisfying way and things can be biggest in a satisfying, like when we don't know exactly what's going to happen at the end of a show. But this just did not work for me at all. Like John just aimlessly heading north. Yeah. I think that shows a lot of times are like, especially series finale is are kind of defined by their final shot their final scene. And I was surprised I think my nose just is like, oh, the final shot is just a bunch of free folk butts walking away from the camera into the snow. Just it show there isn't, I don't know, something more artful. Yeah. So I was similarly I it wasn't that I was a terrible ending for any of those three characters. Some of them didn't make sense. Some did it was just kind of unsatisfying in the end that we're left with so many questions, and we just nothing was explained as to why people got there for the reasons that we've laid out them not having enough time in them, favoring showing us arriving there and the surprise of that over the process of getting there. So. Yeah. Thrones gathering over I thought that I would feel more like moves and surreal than I actually did and said it was just like wealth. Like that was disappointing. So let's talk about the show overall the season. I guess, kind of it's, it's hard not to talk about the season without talking about the whole show is hard to talk about this episode without talking about the season cetera. You always went up to talking about game of thrones. So the piece, I was alluding to earlier is really, really smart piece that zone. Yep. He wrote for scientific American and Lincoln show notes. And I think that it works really well at dovetails really well with that ringer cram piece that we talked about in the first episode from this from this recaps of the season which was all about consequence and the idea that consequence had been removed and basically, when Johnson came back from the dead, he, he got plot armor, that removed any chance of consequence. So he would make these terrible decisions but he wouldn't die for it in the way that or be punished for it in the way that in the past people would and that was always. The heart of game of thrones was something happens and then something else happens. And then because of that something else. Unforeseen happens. Always these cascading cause and effect and that soon it became this just needs to happen. So we'll find a way to make it happen. Great piece. So defectors piece is about how the how the show shifted from a sociological storytelling, psychological storytelling. It's really good. It's maybe like if e- almost like a Rosetta Stone to me for a lot of things outside of game of thrones and just understanding our culture because she kind of zooms out and talks a lot about sociological storytelling, which I think, also is sort of systems storytelling. And how the show when it was really good focused on that. And there was this point at which shifted its focus. So her argument just to paraphrase, really briefly is basically that almost all movies, especially like in America movies, and TV shows are psychological stories. They tell the stories of characters primarily, like first and foremost, psychological stories, and it's about a character, and their psychology and what's influencing them, and how they've changed in the decisions that they make. And it's very rare that we get a story that's like mostly, like focuses on sociological storytelling, or telling the stories of. Systems, and she highlights the wire as an example, that people go to because that was a rare show that was primarily about systems. It's about a whole city government and all of these different systems, interacting. And how cruel in difficult the systems are. And it does this amazing job over the course of the show of showing you that and she points out that game of thrones was also a show at least it's first few seasons about that because it wasn't about, like one character wasn't about a hero. And the fact that they killed start at the end of the first season kind of was the ultimate demonstration of that. And that was where people, I realized, what kind of show this was because the show didn't end when the main character, whatever the hero was killed. Or it didn't become even become difficult. It actually just became way more interesting because the show itself was so focused on all of these like these systems, interlocking kings, and queens in this kind of terrible system of rule, and all of these worrying houses, and that was the story of game of thrones. And then there's this point at which I don't know if she points to this moment. It really is kind of John snow came back from the dead. So it's that same moment. That's cram points out to me, anyways, that that's kind of where the show really shifted focus and it stopped being that kind of story. And instead, it became the story of individuals, and these heroes and a lot of them had on plot armor, and couldn't be killed because we knew we needed to follow these individuals storylines to their conclusion and the show stopped being about systems, and these complicated this thing that's bigger than the characters that will carry on, even if some of them die, or like unexpected things happen. And instead became a story of these individual heroes, which is way more familiar, and as part of the core of why it feels like just any other TV show now. So and she kind of gets into a much bigger thing about like the fact that, that kind of storytelling is like so reflective of our own culture, and how we're so focused on individualism and you know, you can fix your own life, and it's up to you. And if you just read the self help book and meditate day, you know, you'll like that ties in with that. She doesn't go. Say everyday you'll be able to pay for your student loan. Exactly. If you recycle than like, global warming and climate change won't kill us. And like instead, we don't get enough of the sort of big picture, systemic storytelling that actually helps us understand the systems that we currently in our lives really needs to address change. And instead, we're always getting these individualized stories, which is such a fascinating read and kind of just gets at the heart of my frustration with the show now. And how enamored I was at the show when it was good. And why I like systemic storytelling general, it's an amazing piece I really recommend people read it. I hope paraphrase that enough, at least to get across. What why it was so good. In such a such a great sort of encapsulation of what happened with the season, but that to me, it'll color how I interpret this show forever. Like having read that. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's in conflict that idea of sociological storytelling is in conflict with a narrative arc, which is at a character starts off in one place grows and grows and grows and eventually gets to another place. And one of the reasons that the show. Started off with in that sociological as that it was able to show these repressed horrible treat horribly treated characters generis, getting abused by her brother, and then getting raped by the man, she is supposed to marry or, like brand getting pushed out a window and recover from being crippled or like are you just getting shuffled from one should he situation to the next? So just evidently, as they get more powerful. They're going to become more in control of their own destinies from storytelling perspective. Maybe that's I mean, sure, and like it's not. And this isn't saying that story has to be exclusively about one of the other, you can have characters in a primarily sociological story, the way that game of thrones did. And the way that the wire, the wire has character I won't spoil it because you haven't washed it, though. I know that you're definitely going to subway, so spoiled things. But the character bubbles on the wire is a very look. He doesn't have a lot of power, but he is a great character. And he has an amazing character arc that's really satisfying, and like well done and other characters have. Frustrating difficult. Character. There are characters on the wire who go in wonderful directions and have a mazing arcs that are really interesting and go through growth. But the wire also just like with runs is willing to kill characters and to just stop their storylines. Short in ways that make the overarching story much more interesting. The same way that game of thrones was very willing to do at several crucial points throughout the show. So you can kind of have both. It's just about where the focus lies, and as the focus shifted to this, like, individualized narrative, whether they maybe they had to do that maybe not by necessity or not that shift changed it into a show. That is much more like everything else, we get and much less special and interesting as a result. Yeah. So just big picture wise. I think it's it's hard to deny that this show kind of change. A lot of things about television, inspired a whole lot of other fantasy shows other other some some good. That's not so not so good. It has certainly become this monoculture, maybe the last bit. Of monoculture, that we'll see for a long time because I can't think of anything else that just gets the entire world talking about something. I've seen people say that, but I'm skeptical. There's no I'm just saying in the past few years, hasn't been anything else, quite like this. Something. But, but yeah, no, it's, it's the power game of thrones is impossible to deny, but it's also impossible to deny that just like they had this opportunity to do so many incredible things and just so badly missed the Mark in the final couple of seasons that it almost ruins the show in retrospect, that other shows are not quite as, as, as doing, so, for example, law straight, like I wasn't a huge fan of the final seasons of lost, and some of the decisions that they made their but watching season one of loss today is like, still like watching a masterpiece, and it doesn't really matter that some of those mysteries dangling plot threads will never actually lead anywhere or lead to unsatisfying conclusions. Because you're just watching this incredible. Character drama. And I've been also rewatching some of season two of thrones that's still also incredible. But it's a little bit diminished, when it's like you know where these characters are headed, and that Jamie's arc is eventually going to lead. No. Where are is going to lead to her making the sudden twist sudden shift that has never quite properly given the chance to grow. It's funny, it's kind of actually. It's like game of thrones is better structure, and better blueprint is working against it in that comparison because what you're saying because lost, they had no not the fuck. They were doing when they made the first season they had no idea where it was going, and it wasn't until whatever season four that they sat down and said, okay, we figure out how we're going to end this, and then they figured out a narrative, and the ending satisfying, but you can watch that beginning and it has the energy of a cool show with a lot of interesting ideas, that wasn't really going anywhere, because no one who is making it newer it was going where when you watch the being of game of thrones it is clearly playing to a framework, that's part of a larger narrative that an author had figured out which is true, but then you have to know that it's going to end unsatisfying Lee. And in fact, it's going to end in a way that almost certainly falls short of the, you know, the person who wrote the blueprint. Martin of the of the way that he saw it going. And that makes it harder to watch those beginning episodes, because, you know, this is just not going to pay off. Being setup. One of the other interesting thing is that Georgia Martin, actually did set up some things that just weren't put in the show, when, when the Chevron's decided to Jap seasons five and six, there's some stuff dragons, for example, that makes it very clear that was going to break that, like, there's some stuff about on her quest to figure out, who the sons of the harp are, and who the heartbe is, which is kind of like very shortened and very expedited in the show in the in the books, she goes on this wild journey of like internal monologue. Ing and going like matter and matter every single chapter, and she's eventually, like doing some fucked up things to innocence and not really caring about it because she justifies it to herself in this way, that I think as a reader, you're like, oh, my God, she's like descending in this in this into into madness depravity. And I think the fact that we didn't get to see that internal monologue. And we didn't get to see a lot of that, that actual depictions of what she did on the show. I. Think really hurt. So, yeah. I mean I don't think it's that they a large part of it is that they didn't have the blueprint anymore. They didn't book six and seven to follow, but it's also just the show runners just made decisions that just did not wind up working out in the end. So it's funny. I started watching full metal alchemist and I gather Gita Jackson, Kentucky wrote an article about this, which is that there was a whole version of full metal alchemist. This is an anime that's based on a manga, and that the first the first version of it, which I did not start is based on the mango, which apparently the mega was not over when they began making the, the first version of full monogamous. So it starts strong and then it ends as a disaster because they didn't know how to end it because the mango wasn't over. And then there's a new version of mental alchemists called full metal alchemist brotherhood, and the mango was complete. And apparently, that's the one to watch because it's really good. So it's almost like if they made game of thrones again in a few years and after finish the books, which would be really funny, right? But I didn't know that this had happened before. Foreign media, and it's actually really interesting that I randomly started watching the show and then heard Keita had actually just written about it for Kentucky, and that, so that was I have never heard of someone doing that before. And full metal alchemists actually provides a blueprint for that. That's kind of how it can go. So Benny often wise definitely were in uncharted territory in a lot of ways. They were in charge of the most successful TV show ever, or like one of the most watched shows that budget, the highest budget show ever, the sort of the cultural conversation around has never really not. That's never happened before. And just the amount of pressure that was on them and the amount of story that they had to handle on their own and then watching what happened while it was fascinating was also very frustrating, and I think, yeah, I don't know. I wonder if the lessons of this show, will inform whatever the next great show is or if something this big, and this unusual always just happens on its own terms, and doesn't really it's not possible to learn lessons from this, because whatever the. Next thing is that's like a creative challenge of this magnitude will just be so different. That, that there's no you know, there's no template that you can you can learn from. But I think the lesson is if you don't feel like finishing shows and give it to. Fucking shortened seasons. I make clear that you want out of there. And yeah. I mean ultimately, that's a lesson like with or without a blueprint that seem like they have seasons seven, and eight have the bones to make something really cool. Maybe you get rid of the fucking kidnapping a white plot because that was the dumbest thing and them. Maybe get rid of your me. Yeah. Maybe. Here and there a few a few tweaks but, like the skeleton of Dinara going bad after her journey like you have the recipe here to create one of the most compelling villains, and run the most tragic stories like of all time up there with Walter white in terms of like watching a protagonist go bad, and that is super super fascinating. But just to, to mess it up at the end like this into Russia is just like men. It's it's goes without saying that it's like one of one of the saddest things one of the saddest ways to have ended a show. Especially a show of this this, this importance. And the significance is so many people show that is like has changed so many people's perspectives and been. So, like, I don't know. It's entertainment at the end of the day, at the end of the day is TV show. But I think it's fair to say that game of thrones on fire really matter to a lot of people like stories matter as the show says stories really important. And I think it's, it's okay for you to just acknowledge that like story resonating with you makes a really big difference. And therefore when a story with so hard at the end that can have a big impact on you. So if you're out there, like me feeling betrayed and sad and really just like bummed out by this whole thing, it's okay. It's allowed doesn't feel your feelings. I think that all our allows us to understand our culture in ourselves. I think that this show at it's best to that as well. And I really do come back to the fact that there is something, you know, there'll be so many takes written about this. And about game of thrones about storytelling, there will be articles written about shows that ended badly and shows that ended. Well, we're going to learn a lot and remember a lot, and it's going to be really interesting. I'm sure be some really great writing about this, especially I think this sort of political and socio political analysis of this ending and what it says, I want to talk about that a little bit, I guess, just because I've seen that someone was saying online or a couple of this was the elect Biden of the, of the of the ways that they could have ended is basically, let's break the wheel, we're going to, you know, through this Justice, and then everyone is like, well, okay we're not really going to break the wheel, we're going to actually all right. This works for us, for us sitting us, white dudes and it was literally noble house. Yeah. This system kind of work. So let's just vote for the person that makes us as work for us. So there was this kind of 'incrementalist approach, and I think that, that is actually very interesting in that in that the inclination to read this show politically and talk about it in those terms is also like both understandable. And like a cool admirable thing to do, and I'm interested to read more about drug on drugs like fuck it. I'm Bernie Sanders right on his own. So I think that those reads are interesting, but they are so frustrated by the way, the show changed. And it's much harder to draw an interesting sociopolitical takeaway. And to have that discussion about a show that has shifted its focus, so significantly away from those things, and then left us with so many blanks to fill in on our own that I almost struggled to understand. No, what I make of all of that, like of, of what became of west coast of the decision that they made and of like I was saying of brand being king who knows what that means, maybe it was a great idea because of how brands mind works now, but we don't really know how brands mind works now. So it kind of undercuts any analysis of it or any of that. So it's sending up for a sequel like do you think that's what they're trying to do here? I don't think so. No, no. I think that maybe taking just taking it on its own. It's very difficult to understand total in that context. I feel like this kind of show like a show that everyone. Talks about is such a great opportunity for us all to turn the conversation from just talking about the show to talking about bigger ideas. And I think that we're in a moment in time, where it's so important that we have avenues to discuss these huge problems that we're dealing with, that, it really does feel like a shame that the show while giving an opening and leading to those kinds of interpretations. Also, didn't it shifted its focus so far away from that stuff that we can't have as meaningful of a conversation as we might have had the show stuck with it. And it does that is one thing that has me looking forward to the books like as much as this an ending. It's not over there's going to be game of thrones stuff forever. In addition to the Tien, whatever the prequel show and, or is spin off that probably won't happen. But I would watch it did. There's also the fact that the books will come out, and hopefully people will keep talking about to have a more new and interesting conversation about what this ending means because right now, I feel like I don't have enough information to really get to debate on it. I guess I mean. I mean, I think that just based on. Okay. So sometimes when you're when you're really into a show and you're like reading all this criticism and coming up with all these theories and stuff. And then you actually see what the creators of the show was saying it's always, it's almost always a big disappointment. So, for example, the sopranos is my favorite show ever. I think it's perfect in every single way, with a couple of sections almost perfect, let's say, but I read a bunch of interviews with David chase, who is the show runner, and creator and have a head of heavy and just about everything. And sometimes I've read some things for him from him. Maybe raisin I round be like, wait. This is the guy who created like the subtle nuance complicated show because, like, for example, I summoned interview, one say that the end of the show, which is the infamous diner scene with journey's don't stop believing. And I read him say that he chose that that song because he thought that the takeaway of the sopranos should be not to stop believing. And like how he wants people to just go out there and believe just just don't stop believing literally. And I was like, wait a minute. That's. That's really what you were going there. And I had a similar feeling whenever I would see David Benny often talk in their inside thrones episodes this whole season. And they didn't do one for this last, but they did for the previous episode and the one, but for that, and the previous episode was notably. It was like, and then dinar is here's the bells. And that's when it gets personal. That's what they said about her decision to nuke olive king's landing. So hearing that sort of thing, and just like hearing all the other stuff they've been saying about the season just makes me think that they're like, there is no real grand theory of what happens to west rose. They don't really know care. They just thought it would be cool, and they and presumably Georgia Martin told him this is where you have to get with brand taking the throne and they were just like, okay. We're just going to rate that. And we don't really care. What happens afterwards, and we'll give you guys this fan service scene of all your favorite characters sitting together on the small council, and we're going to send John Nari off on their different journeys and Vietnam, vet, like I am guessing that they haven't. Any thought to the questions that you're trying to answer your? No, no, no. Yeah. I mean, I think that that's evident, it's people are going to have these conversations regardless like this is going to be something that everyone talks about. And it's going to be a worthwhile and interesting conversation. It's just because the thing you just said, which I completely agree with. They didn't care and the show itself had shifted so far away from this, that it seems evident that they don't even have the capability of telling that story at least the interest. But it seems like that's also just not their forte their Hollywood filmmakers. They make this other kind of story. And so as a result of that they didn't give us that much to work with so the conversations will suffer like my own personal attempts to analyze what's happening. And to read it through a lens of our own of America's political system, which all of which can be like an interesting and helpful way to sort of contextualized what's happening in the real world. It just doesn't come together at falls apart, because I don't have enough to work with because of what you just said that I was clearly, not their priority, and I think that, that's a loss. I think that's a shame for the conversation that will. Ensue in the wake of this as interesting and worthwhile is it will be it could have been far more interesting. And former worthwhile. If they had if they had shifted the focus of the show. Yeah. If there was a clear message at the end of the show, instead of just like muddled one that just leaves us scratching her head and, and I strongly push against the idea that art needs to have an obvious point of view. I don't think that the show needed to say to us, and this is good. And this is bad. And here's the moral of the story, like they don't need to do that. It can be a little, especially given thrones. Can be am bigamous, and it can leave us asking questions. But if they give us the information to try to come up with our own answers, especially with an ending because it doesn't have to end. Everything is tied up neatly, this actually left a lot of things unresolved, which is cool. Like I like that space where we now have to just talk amongst ourselves about what we think happened. And like the worst thing they could do right now is the Georgia Martin can do right now is to pull JK Rowling and begin talking about what? Happens if people after this. So I don't think he will. I think. But like the ambulance is totally fine. It's end the conversation can live in that MVP. That's where it happens. And I'm excited for it despite the fact that it's going to be kind of hobbled by some of what it's missing. But it does make me wish that we had had a different kind of story in a different kind of ending. Yeah. No totally. And maybe we will one day. Hopefully one day, something that's an interesting is German had a blog post yesterday morning or he didn't even mention the shell like it seems like he's refrained from even talking about on the show over the past few weeks, which has been interesting. And makes me think he really is just like so unhappy so much tea leaf reading in the next six months to try to figure out what he thinks of all this. And I'm sure at some point, he'll say in a really Unser Omonia sway, like yeah. In some random interview or on a live journal or something. Well, I guess that's pretty much it. We're done with throne. I want to ask if you have any sort of final thoughts or big picture thoughts. I know it's pretty fresh. It's just the morning after. So you're gonna need. Maybe some more time but yeah, any closing thoughts. My closing thoughts are I don't even like we asked that couple of weeks ago and got a ton of people saying, oh my God. Jason, you should go back through the entire season watch every episode you recap at this point, I don't even want to do that. Like I will be disappointed by I do want to do some sort of book related content. So maybe you and I can talk about some sort of, like book way to do way to explore the books on the show is rich and interesting and full of like fascinating details, so maybe we can do that one day, especially when if and when winds of winter comes out, we will definitely be talking about it. Lots and lots on our show. But yeah, there than that, it has been a blast doing these recaps with you as sad as last season's have been into still been fun to talk about them. And I hope people have enjoyed listening to us can tear them apart every week. Yeah, I've had a good time as well. And I am looking forward to reading the books. I'm with you on feeling slightly exhausted by this show like it's fun. Recapping TV show. But also, I've had enough game of thrones for a little while for some definitely got some other fantasy books in the in the offing some things that, that various people have recommended, but I do want to reread all of game of thrones are all of song of ice and fire at some point, and do the combined dance of what is the feast feedback dragon thing where you combine those two books as they were meant to be. And so, yeah, I think at some point I'm looking forward to doing that just because it's been a while. I think I started rereading a feast for crows at some point, and was struck by how interesting it was, and then didn't keep going. So I think I was going to read the whole thing, but that will be in a little while. Got to give it a little bit of time with you. This has been this has been really fun, fun. It's fun to talk about a show like this, and to have to be part of the conversation. I think is, is useful and cool. Like I said, I think that the conversation around game of thrones has been and will likely continue to be fascinating. Just there's a cultural thing like this that everybody's talking about forward. What other people say? Congratulations to everybody who named their child brand as opposed to wondrous, congratulations one the game of baby named thrown the game of melted. Melted thrones. All right. Jason. We are going to wrap this thing up, we'll be back to talk about video games this week in the back on fucking topic. Talk about games forever. Hell, yeah. All right. Jason, I'll see this week farewell.

John Tyrians Tyrian deniro Petitjean Sam king Tyrian Davos Georgia Jonah west rose Dan clinch Robin Tyrian Peter Jason schreier New York Times partner Tina Dinara
Game of Thrones Season 8 - 'Winterfell' Spoiler Discussion

The Nerd Soup Podcast

47:11 min | 2 years ago

Game of Thrones Season 8 - 'Winterfell' Spoiler Discussion

"Yeah. Of thrones season. Eight spoiler discussion episode one would devel- messed up the words there. But hey, we are all here. I am bow Oliver joined by Aaron the nerd monkey and Marissa first game of thrones video the season the big three minus Manny. Many. He's on retainer got about Manny. Yeah. How pisses teddy going to be when he when he hears that you labeled us victory. Well, the game of thrones big. Yeah, we're the Khyber and search in the mountain of nursing. Got a lot of hate on one of the videos for that. Or they're like these kids claim to read the books, and they named Khyber and serves in the mountain the big. No sticking with victory. That's that's yeah. We're here today to do an extended discussion on game of thrones season. Eight episode one winter fell obviously, we had our view. But here we can get into more of a free flowing discussion and talk about theories and ideas, and because this felt like a like a prologue season eight now, it's nice to delve deeper into the episode felt like on the review I have done a little better. I was mentally drained and physically you guys did that right after yet? Now, it was just a long day. Islanders taxes Tiger Woods, and that I should have been better. But Mencken Liam it when he's wrong and ask for forgiveness. Actually, no can't even use that line anymore because Lord Glover ruined that line, but should be fun. Where else can they find us? You can find us on I tunes at the not podcast, then Spotify and soundcloud at the nerd, sue podcast, and you could send in fan questions game of thrones fan questions to nerd soup for you at gmaiLcom and you follow us on Twitter for you nerd, smokey Maria is on you have a Napster account font. Her on their streamers playlist, and yeah, let's just get right into the episode. I think what I want to do is. We usually start in the beginning. Let's start at the end. Well, not the very end of raising the scene before the end the night king the night king making his presence felt in this episode, and he doesn't appear but his symbols there. And there have been a lot of theories going around on the internet the symbol which we've seen before. I think we see it in the very first episode of the show. It's also the makeup of the trees in the scene where the children the far create the night king while hey, shaking your head on green. Oh, you were you going? No, I'll send me. No sorry. What do you guys think about that symbol does? It mean anything or is it just his his logo stitched on his clothes? Guess they don't have a banner makers in the land of always winter. So you gotta get a little creative people were saying, and I notice this a little to kind of like the tar Gary and logo just that same circular motion with dragon. It's I don't know if that has anything to do with it. But it is a little little similar. I'm not saying like, maybe there's some distant unknown relationship between tar gains of the Nike. But yeah, it's interesting to keep in mind. But yeah, like we were saying on the review he wasn't in the scene. But it's just so it just played so much. She his catcher like we're talking about how when the wiling came across. And man, Manchester says always the artist like he knows what he's doing. It's a psychological warfare move. And it's easy to look at them as just mindless killers with like, no motivation. But that's a clear telltale sign like he knows what he's doing. And he's trying to send a message. He shaina get in your head. And there's. More to them than what meets the eye. And I think that's interesting even after he breached the wall, he's still doing this. Because that's what the white walkers were doing throughout all the seasons. People say why did it take them? So long to get to the wall because they couldn't go past it now that they are passed it. They're still playing these games. It's the he knows that he's going to win. He feels that. He is going to win. I don't know. What do you think? Mercy. Do you think that there's some underlying meaning to this symbol because the thing that I go to is the dragon glass, it was obviously obsidian they believe it was created by dragon fire, but it could just be normal obsidian. I dunno. He does have it in his in his chest. I think at minimum he wanted to freak them out. And that worked I also think hin leaving the symbol plays a lot into how this episode very closely. Mimics the first episode of the show in general. Yeah. So it's like a poetic kind of thing. Like, he leaves a simple now, he left a symbol then or someone he was in charge of left assembled. And I don't know if that was confirmed night king in the beginning. No could have been one of his lieutenants. It's it's foreboding. He's creating a sense of foreboding as the audience. We know he's coming. We know the wall is broken. But not everyone else knows that or they don't expect anything to actually happen. Besides like a select few when he's the main villain of the series. They know how to hide him. And that's always been one of the strengths of the books in the show is that they don't show you the threat, and it makes it that much more scary as for the connection to the first episode. That's also a good point because of the little girl from the first episode. That's the first thing that creeped me out in game of thrones. When he finds her on the tree, and then when she wakes up with the blue eyes and pour net number like, we said in our view, you get named Ed. Death sentence. It's the Sean bean effect. That's so funny to you and Ted. He's like, I don't think Liana moment will die after they did the Charene and lo and behold, it's another little kid going up in flames. But that's scream too. Yeah. I wasn't expecting. It was. 'cause if you notice he opens his eyes for about ten seconds start screaming when Torma speaking, and then it just comes out of nowhere icon a game thrones horror. Yeah. And we don't really know. But you know, it's I think it's just the innocence of like innocent kid who really has no idea what's going on. He's kinda just lost in this new world that has come to west rose. And he's just a casualty and it's just. Yeah. Like, John literally just spared him. And now, he's dead his whole house. I guess is dead. It seems like. Somber is completely destroyed. I'll show them go back. I'll get these wagons. Number. Bigger and better things. It's a fictional. When they like mentioned him in the beginning, though. I didn't think anything was going to come of it. I thought it was just like here show Sansa like sonza running winter fell. I didn't think he was gonna come back in the end completely slaughtered. Right. And I think that's what this episode did well to that a lot of scenes lead into other scenes that things weren't as happening. It's another moment like with Sam Dana's. They didn't have to have a moment together. Sam could have found out about this from somebody else, but him deniro's telling him that his father and brother were killed by her hand leads him to try and convince John to commit treason that when he tells John you're actually gone to our area near the son of Reagan Liana would denier give her thrown like you did for your people. And now it's putting down in John hood. And that's not a role that I expected Sam to play in the season. I mean, we've seen all the theories and people theorizing deniro's will she'd be like father and become the mad Queen. I don't think I mean, we've took this journey with her. There are certainly moments you can point to. But overall, I think she's a good hearted person. Just wants to do the right thing. But we've seen now with Tyrian when she burned dick on and re Randall alive, he gives it that lucky vises against it. She goes against it. And now you have Sam learning about what she did. And it puts into question these big players that have questions in their mind at Santa to that list. And you have people that might start doubting her rule, but the little cherry on top John is also the rightful king. So this is and we talked about in the review like kind of like, I don't wanna see this conflict. I don't wanna see this conflict and rewatching the episode and that can be a very big part of the season. Do you think it's her rob moment, in what way Robb killing car stark? I it felt similar to me like when it came up. Again, it reminded me of when rob had killed car stark. And I got to criticize that like that little like a could be back and forth. But if it's all this and kind of makes sense. So I'm kind of leaning away from that take. Well, I don't want the conflict between Sohn's deniro's because. Oh, but when you add it all about Santa, and John you can have conflict as there's a reason for now, Ed in all these different factors, and she has the tar. Gary name, and she has some some questionable decisions and people around her. No these decisions she made it's easy for them to believe that she might not have the best intentions, and we talked about it to her reluctance to give away her thrown at something. That's built in her character that she is the rightful Queen. I don't think it's going to be as easy as John is the rifle king. I'm not gonna give up all I worked for as much as I want to succeed and the feet the night king and do what's best for the realm. This is still something that I hold near and dear to my heart. And I'm not gonna let anyone get between it. I don't care if it's John. I don't care if it's Tyrian Giora, you know, who knows her identity around it like becoming the rightful clean, especially after like when she was pregnant, it was her son who is going to be the king of the seven realms, and then she lost her son and she lost Drago. So now, it's like her thing, and she has to be the one to fulfill it. I don't fault her for wanting to keep that it's been something she's been working for and she suffered for for so long by also. Understand like the other side of the conflicts. Like, I also get where SAM's coming from with it yet as a new perspective because in season four or season five, and she asserts that dominance, and she broke claims. I am the last arguing I am the rightful Queen those are you get behind her like, yes. Yes. You are. And you kind of your supporter now she's doing that same thing. But with the perspective of other characters that might not necessarily agree and characters that we like to it's not like she's going against these evil enemies. It's people in their all dead because we watch for five seasons. Yeah. These people destroy west Rosen, and there was somebody on the other side of the world freeing, people take breaking people out of their chains. She was built up to be the hero. Now, she's become almost like status Barath, Ian, where she's losing herself in haram Bishen where it started out as a noble, cause I'll take back the chair that was stolen from my family. Take back the throne. But I think the writing for the character has been a little inconsistent where she has moments where she's that classic charming generis. And then she become. Uh-huh. Completely antagonistic out of nowhere with them. Also. But I'll tell you what there's moments in season three and four where she's talking to adversaries, and she's not like that. She still has that charm. She has the edge tour where she can play the back and forth, but there are moments here where that line that one line that keeps bothering me is the one that she says the sauna about the dragons. It's listen their toys. And hasn't been like that in the past chief you sauna and John as almost equals like these are her people that she means the rule. I do think that was the wrong thing to say, they're right. She's gotta be she's got a no this woman. You're the nearest Garin. You the most powerful person in the room? You don't need to defend yourself. Just quick. 'cause I can't what that's lied. Rob. Stark was a little different. Five he heated for honor kids, you know, Rick on dick on just people told him that he shouldn't kill them and people told the nurse. She shouldn't kill the tar lease. And she did. And now it's like a consequence. She has to rob, rob. Dobbs more just and you know, the bounds baby that he is. He's more than star problem. I'm just joking. But yeah, it's definitely a moment that could be a catalyst for the divide between John Harris with specially with Sam having this outlook because that's actually that hit me pretty hard. And it wasn't Ricca. What a fucking name of it wasn't our Randall. Obviously dick on just even we didn't know dick on like, I mentioned just SAM's reaction in the see him like that was very tug the heartstrings somebody made a point that Sam is probably the most good character in the show because the fact that he even showed moment of sadness for that man for Randall to. Yeah, he can still more for somebody that hated him is in tire life that is it's still his father and that moment where he reveals to John is true identity. Some people were making the case some people claim that that seems kind of anti climactic. I don't know how else are you going to do that? Because salmon brand they figured it out. So somebody has to tell John I said it on the review to the story is convincing. Once you think about it. I do like that Sam told John in the crypt, and you can see like Ned statue behind him. And then Liana again with the parallels. The first episode Ned and Robert or in the crypt. When net is like, hey, I want you to be the hand like my new handed the king, and it's not a responsibility that Ned wants John. Also does not wanna be king. It's probably like can you guys? Stop. Kid, you Zolt this. And it's kinda like Sam Nunn. You know, you're the old God of the force. Want to retirement I just wanna go back to the Santa thing real quick because I think her concern about the army feeding the army is very valid especially because it's the beginning of winter because said the same concern last season. And now she's all like well. We'll figure it out speaking of eating I know this is ridiculous. And I know he does eat, but I feel like brand doesn't eat. I feel like photo synthesizer somehow he unlocked at Crete with three and say, hey abilities feeds off the trees. Yeah. I don't know. You just seems like someone who probably doesn't eat drink anymore. No, he's like the girl from get out. That's eating cereal and drinking the milk. Branch become a full on sicko. Yeah. I'll tell you what he was my favorite part of the episode. I think Brandon sounds because sounds a I think she's really found her footing with this character the point that she made up the point that she brought up about feeding the army. It is a valid point. But brand too because they did give him a little bit of personality. And that's all you need with him. Give me a smile when he sees John. It's almost like the personality. Brands star is trying to escape it's creeping in again. And then he has to suppress it because he knows there are more pressing matters. And he says his out onto narrows when he gives that looked at -tarian. There were so many moments with brand where you're thinking. What does he know? He knows everything. But what is he going to reveal moment is with Tyrian Tyrian did something he saw that scene. You know when that scene cuts off with Tyrian and at the end of season seven brand was still watching. Hell he's funny. It's like he's grabbing jokes. I don't know if it's very dry. Yeah. He really just was in the same place the whole to move new theory does brand star heat right after the hats actually already working on that. That's coming out tomorrow. Okay. Right. After hats, and harnesses. Has lost its way. Do you think -tarian what Tyrian do hear him? Various I think we're in on it or he told barris because there's no way that they that's not a throwaway moment where he looks down and sees brand creepy kit. No, it's because I'm interested to know at Tyrian. Does he believe when he's telling other people that, sir? Army has been come. No. I think he's said on the review I think he knows she's not coming. He's lying Santa calls him out on that. Like, you know, seriously. I know associ- this thing he's not giving the impression heave. He'd sounds like genuine genuinely believes that serves these coming just that good of a liar. Wouldn't put it past into believe it either. Because not like again, sir. Sees one of her defining. I guess traits. How much she loved her children and the loss of them really made her kind of like spin out. So if he believes that she's pregnant and that she still the same person who do anything for her children. It wouldn't be completely farfetched for him to think that maybe she would send up her army, but we know that she's not. So we says the line that she has something to live for ROY. And he said in a past season to season, or what moment it's like say, we will about, sir. See, but she does love her children. Her one redeeming your energy bones says a to certainty. So and also just maybe brand agrees with Tyrian. Maybe he knows what's good point. He's he didn't like hourly say, hey, by the way, the Nash, John Tyrians cooking something up. So if you did see something he you'll probably be like. Yeah. That works. That's a good idea. I'm starting to think to the moment, which Amy at the end, it was obviously played for laughs in a way. Jamie's looking at the kid that he pushed out of a window the memes were no. But it's it's on play for last but played for shock. There's going to be consequences for his action. But I think it's brand knowing how important Jamie could be that he's going to defend him. I saw that scene. And I don't know why didn't occur to me before then that Jamie and brand might cross paths. Again, will there's so many reunions. And I think that's what the show did. Well, I I enjoyed a lot of the reunions in the show people can't making the claim that they rant climatic that. I think there is no way to do them. Completely the way everyone wanted exactly know they're in the same place, and they say you to other. Yeah. People are gonna react to different moment. It's the way, you know, just the way they envisioned it in your head all these years look at the goodbyes goodbyes, very small. I mean, how many scenes John and rob half season one two or three? But that could buy seeing that always go back and watch. So next time. I see you'll be an all black. It was always my color. Perfect and the reunion. John aria was great as well. But I do think brand is going to be a moment where Jamie is standing in front of John deniro's Tyrian. And there's a moment where there's an awkward pause brand can come out and say, he wasn't the one who pushed me, he just lies Jamie here, the theory that like the three eyed raven wards Jamie, I don't like that theory that he ward into Jamie to push brand out of the window. I I enjoy destiny playing apart and game of thrones that some characters are born into the world. And there is a path for them. There's a predetermined path. I think that was just part of brands path. Yeah. You lose his something and he gains. It's almost like a daredevil use an accident that heightened his his abilities. And I guess we'll never know if he was if he would have become that strong. If that. Accident didn't happen. Maybe I like the three raven theory. I also hate the brand warding into the mad king theory. Oh, yeah. I've heard about the mole stoop hold the door. I don't know. No, no. Book read it, and I guess go like Tyrian that scene when their whole of winter fell on their know the moment, obviously questioning John's decision to bend the knee to narrows and even Tyrian the way he says, I guess he saying the the way you said the land is coming. He kinda says it like knowing the reaction, he'll get I don't know. I think maybe you could see that as like a not he's not as confident when he's saying it, but I think he just knew the reaction for the north once he says that they also Lancaster's I hate those guys. Oh, I don't like them like, Jamie. Yellow heads and Jamie rolls up not long. He says he just got hair club for men boy, recognizing oh my God. That's brad. There's a lion that scene. I guess so impact just the obviously more month. Speaking out, Tyrian, speaking on John's behalf northerners are hesitant. And I guess Santa and deniro's guess just goes into the dynamics they make a good point. Like, what is John right now? He's not king. He's not it doesn't matter. Yeah. I do think. Do you think the nurses like low key threat to kill Santa? She doesn't start respecting her was a bit much Sanga Sanga has effectively bent the knee. She's providing everything that the army could need at this possible moment, she's not maybe like that. We know of planning rebellion. They're not trying to overthrow Damaris. She is going along with everything the way John wants her to and deniro's ACL as she doesn't start liking me. What are they read heads? John later episodes. She never really liked me either. That was a good line growing up. She didn't like me. But you think that would have some sort of it seems that Oreo enjoys deniro more. So than Johnson, obviously, Oreos staying away from the politics oriented. That's the smartest person that she's ever met. She's trying to protect our family, and John is almost like, you know, I'm part of the family to right? She parallels. Signs parallel soci- a bit in that way, protecting the family. But it also really made me wish that REO and saunas storyline didn't. Yeah. For season seven wasn't so convoluted because I want. Yes that endgame. They did kill little finger. And apparently, we're supposed to seem that they've been working on this the whole time, but it was just played out so terribly. So you don't believe Oreo when she says, no, I do and I want to I just wish that season seven had done a better job of showing that us. Yes. Because like she has moments in season six like the battle of the bastards when she. Gets the knights of the veil to come in. That's the reason why they won the battle of the bastards. Right. And she's playing that close to the chest to where she's not telling John about little finger. She's making sure that she still has that car to play. That's been one of the problems of the show is that characters just suddenly become what George has been building them up to be. 'cause that's the theme of Georgia's writing, he tears these characters down. And he builds them up to adapt to this world Sauza was supposed to be little fingers monster the one who defeats little finger because he taught her how to play the game. But suddenly, she's become the smartest character in the show, which is cool. But like you said they didn't really develop it it. Same thing with brand is he goes from season six he's still that immature kid. That's not listening to the three outrage even season seven, he has no personality instantly. There's instant changes to these characters from what I remember about. Because I haven't seen old episodes with the old three Arabian in a while. But was the old three raven as emotionally like clutched yet? No, he's more like actually brand is starting to become more like blood raven. This. I wonder like, obviously, he just got these powers. I'm sure it's overwhelming just suddenly knowing everything, but will the emotion that he showed here is when he starts yelling at everybody. There's no time for this speaking for the audience. Well, I said before like why never did that season seven. No. But one of our forgot what video was the actor that portrayed the raven. He had his voice is just very calm charismatic just zoo pursers over it's like try. He just sounds like a wise master all knowing that ships him just maximum I'll show, and that's like the cat. We never knew anyone else. Besides that all except for the actor who played before that. But Brin we've seen him just full of life full of wonder we've taken this journey with him since he was climbing around. So he was stuck in bed. And he was just learning how to reinvent themselves and just adapt to a situation and we've seen him in so many different scenarios now when he's just very stoic kind of one note character, it's kind of jarring. Yes, it is. And I think the same thing with to that one law just keeps bothering me. Like, you said, it's just it's a threat. She basically murder you. I know like they got interrupt all murder you because you're concerned about feeding. My army. Right. It's position John in the middle. And then obviously. Yeah. But I mean come on like he'd she just threatened to kill your sister. Just. Guys being dudes you threaten to kill each other once in a while. It's fun men and men men are known to bro. Every once in a while know, so nice little check. You see the dragon's or dimiss? Yeah. No. I didn't see them. Fly over. It's literally like bringing your kid to somebody's house bringing ten kids be like I made food for four. Well, you just consider it. Well, I guess let's go to the moment to we're John deniro's go for the joyride. Obviously, I voiced my frustration. You know what I don't? I kinda liked. Yeah. I enjoyed the scene. I thought it was corny, and it did I don't know about you guys felt a little bit place to me. I also yet like everyone I've seen a lot on the internet stuff about people expecting a bit more from John's first time writing dragon. And so did I do they see the boating season? Okay. Okay. All right. But what anyone says pretty funny? Unfunny on the ball. I forgot I was still riding the dragon for the second time. It should've been that's a moment. I had circled on my count. Counter like get some get some tissues every day on the calendar. Good happen. Get the tissues ready. It's going to be an emotional moment. But it was underwhelming for you. Yeah. Just thought trying to think of the best way to put this. It seems like very lighthearted in a way that did not fit with the episode and the stakes that they were setting up. Well, somebody wrote on Twitter, it was like, sir sees worried about having sex. Johnny dean Air's going on dates Nike stake in this and four. It's the apocalypse is pending. And but I kind of also doesn't solve the problem of the dragons not having any food like that to that line because I was disgusted far in blood. I forget the the Queen that she flies dragons north of the wall, and the dragons are terrified of the north and they want to leave right away. So she was saying that the dragons don't like the north because they probably sense the presence of the white walkers. Obviously, they're like dogs when the dogs consensus a storm coming and also the theory about the cave, which was called back to Egerton, John. But people are now saying we can stay here for thousand years night, king and Knight Queen. I don't know. I felt like Nazi. I felt like deniro saying, oh, we could stay here for a thousand years didn't make sense to me as like something. She would say, but it was license. You're happy like a moment of peace comedic moments, but John writing regular should have been more of a more of a moment. And I didn't feel like it was at all it was kind of like a little cheesy like she's happy. They're happy. You know, the kids in watching uncle nephew, John. Over the road daddy to make them. Watch kinda weird. Danny click question about the dragons have this. I'm I think they've said that only target Syrians can ride dragons the said that I think in the behind the scenes is there a difference between people with like Valerian blood? I guess and then target areas are gains only people with Valerian blood, and the Valerian used to wed sister and brother to keep the bloodlines pure that was about keeping a connection to dragons because they say dragons are fire made flush in that target areas are magical or Valerian or magical creatures that they have some sort of connection, obviously, they're not immune to fire in the books, but they can withstand. Great heats. It similar to the Starks. There's you know, there's a lot about how net star can sleep naked in winter fell and the dead middle of winter will they have that's not hot springs run through the walls or something. Right. Yeah. But I think it's dancer dragons I dunno as long as like, obviously as long as there's targeted with. We've seen. I think there's a bastard Ariza and all the people on the back. Yeah. And when to answer dragons Basser, I think she might have some volume blood. I'm not too keen on that aspect of it. But it's it almost feels like an avatar moment. Yeah. You have to connect the tail to the to the flying the so nonchalant like how do I fly? This like you'll figure it out beats me. Oh, it's like, oh, it's nice Nonni. John like, yeah dinners. It's actually a really good FOSS ability often dies. I'll tell you. What though that shot was stunning when it's behind an heiress and pants John flying away. And she's watching it. It's really cool. Somebody said it was her reaction was almost underwhelming as well. Because she should've been scared four John also like him being able to ride the dragon does she think like he has to be a target area in order to read the dragon or she just the hit is he able to read the dragon because she's there is that like what she's thinking? Right. Well, they had the moment in season seven were drawn drogue on embrace and people shot up there. Yes. Yes. She was shot there. But then she doesn't bring that up. You would think that they would expand upon that in this moment, I do like the theory that the Valerian were were interbreeding to keep the connection with dragons because you hear stories about Valeria. Those dudes were like cats the dragons. I mean, it was every family even the lesser houses. The tar Gary in house wasn't a powerful house, but they had dragons and then they brought them to. Rose with snow dragons, and then you become top dog. So it makes sense that that's why the dragons Ken sense, the Valerian blood inside of inside of John and that leaves him and the two remaining Torg areas brand gotta be the third dragon rider inside of a Syrian put what level I'm just thinking to out loud. Like, technically soak injury would have Leary and blood just because his bloodline with Barath the tar Gary in like while. I think if you keep diluting. Yeah. I know I'm just saying like what what's chlorine level that you need to John's is off the charts. Apparently, you saw George Lucas onset. Yeah. Doing that George. I always go back to this to the white walkers have to get a dragon in the books. Right. That's got to be a book thing. There's no way that the show runners made that up. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, people theorize that there's an ice dragging or stuff like that. So it's going to be brand to get into a Syrian. I guess you lose talking about the three riders. Yeah. Three riders that it doesn't matter because the dragons dead just zombie at this point. Yeah, I'm sure there's no connection that has to be made leaving brand internet wears green seeing abilities the extent of them. So even if it was just Ray gal. He's gotta get him. One of those dragons seeing those is go milky white drowns is that would be so cool completely unrelated question. I haven't read the book. So the golden company like the significance kind of. College. Is what she's just kidding? She's read the play. Is what the golden company like did it live up to what you expected of it? It did because they made that joke about the elephants to me that's been one of the funniest means going, and they put it on certainty scenario thinks he's obsessed with elephants because in the books golden company, they are known to have war elephants like in Lord of the rings. So we were all expecting that. I said it in the video. I was like what if the night king resurrects them? And he puts his giants on the elephants those giants, right and elephants out there. The goal. The company hasn't done anything in the books. Anyway, it's it's more the history. What they don't end the books like what people expected from them. And it's the history mostly because there's a character in the show younger. If have you heard about this? He claims to be radar. Tar Gary in son survived the sack of king's landing. But he's really people think he's a black fire and the golden company were founded by a rivers known as bitter steel, and they fled to Esso's after they lost the first black fire rebellion, and they became a sales company to to make. Money, but they kept coming back to west rose. Again, you know. It's been like five black rebellions. Coming back one more time and winter with Worrell offense. Yeah. So it's it's not a matter of living ups expectations. It's you kinda just have to accept that. That is not canon in the show. They might be cannon. But oh at the black fires stuff like that on some seriously. I'm asking for some money back. I bought the company went elephants. And now you come when no elephants it's refund false advertising, they got horses. I also about seriously. I don't know. I just I didn't believe she was pregnant until this episode now, I'm like, maybe she is. I was kind of still on the the side of she's faking it, what is your opinion on the scene with her in your own? I assumed that she was rebuffing you're on. And then she was just like, oh, wait, I'm pregnant, I need to have someone who could possibly be my kid's father. But it was also like I I listen to your guys review agreed with what Aaron said about it. It felt very she was like you need to earn a Queen. But almost like immediately went back on that. I wish it was more. Like is cool though was like that. Like, hey, you know, I'm human. I'm lonely. I just basically drove away. My only. She's very sad. And I just to show up, and I said Khyber nego- send Bron to kill him. So said, maybe she's like, I don't hate. I hate you're on I guess and just the way that like the setup was if it's just like they played it off a little bit. Like, oh, sir. Sees you know, she just wants the bang on that school good looking guy. Very charismatic in his own way. I could see that. But it just I think when I first saw just came off like she was kind of giving in to him like all right? Whatever come, you know, when I wanted her to be like, I'm the Queen you get in line or you see the mountain she had that moment to and then back on it. But you're on belongs in pirates of the Caribbean game of thrones character, that's disappointing because in the books, he's really mysterious bad ass character. He of just creeps me out. Yeah. He's just. Yeah. He's just a creep kind of in the show, and I like the actor. But once again, you don't have time because his role. I keep saying there's so many theories about what he's going to do in the books. I mean, he's just he's even more depraved than the books. Yes. But it's not. He's charismatic in the books in the show. He's goofy. Not really I mean, that's that's from the damn fear. La point of view chapter that children to the bones. Like when I thought of you're on in the books. I got like goose bumps like, this guy is might be worse than like if he did with people alike think he theorize he actually did he's one of the most six individual who's ever walked this planet. Weser when I see you're on one. It's like, oh, yeah. Can't wait to go bane to Queen. I wanna fuck the Queen. It's like oh looks like please. You got to feel like you. Don't love me. All right. He's begging on his knees. So it's kind of the aftermath through that next scene. When she's kind of like a guy wanted those elephants. It's like, yes, sir. She just wanted to let off a little and she's more. She doesn't really care about your cares. More about the elephants and the elephants not in the room. It's like you're very full of yourself. I like that like it's just weird because I search should only be able to to bang a brother, that's. Mak and that allowed, but it's like that's my hit one like in my head like I want her to achieve. Like, and it's brother. It's like, no they'll pay anyone else. Brother, isn't it? So funny. I eight seasons in it's like, incest, doesn't even faze us. I was upset that serves he was cheating, Jamie. So how dare you cheat? Right. What even the incest? I don't think I wonder if they're going to bring that up with John John kind of stays away from too narrow that would be funny to if they played that where he doesn't wanna tell to narrate in the whole episode of her. He's she's trying to like tickle him or something I can't do that. They don't have time for that. Spinoff. She's emotional answer that encounter and seem before that has hybrid and having Braun like he wants to go killed. Yeah. We spoke about this once let's just others. It's very I kind of I saw that scene two different ways. And it's both. I I'm still not completely sold on the fact that she might be pregnant. So I read that as like he's saying I'll put it prince in your belly. And she's thinking like a mardi pregnant, and I like I did this because I need someone to feasibly think that he might be the father. But also like all her children are dead. She might not be pregnant, but just the idea of having another kid that would be devastating all it's like to like, she just Khyber notice and the father is death. And I think she has a plan for your on like, she's she's really gets a hold of. Swelled at crossbow and comes back kills the night. King of toilet. But it's like, I think she it's not like she wants like, oh, I could pass this off as you're on. I think she has a plan for your on. You're not going to survive if they do and her mind once they win your gun. I'm not marrying that guy. But then like she's taking the kid. I have is Jamie's I just I can't there's no going back unless they're I think they're still might be something else where I don't think. So see would trust bronze do that. And it seemed very helps that where the audience and we've seen his adventures Jeanie and Tyrian and they build that connection. So we're like bronze not gonna do that for one second believe that Braun is actually going to kill either of them. No many. I think he might show up. And then like here, you go be like you got a castle up north. I've really thought real influence Lena Haiti we're going to be in the same scene. I guess just strategically you need a huge army to defeat the night king. But also he can just resurrect all your dead soldiers. So I feel like having everyone in one place isn't great. But also how else do you do this like strategic? I don't know what options they've like realistically have they could maybe it something where when we see them resurrect, everyone at heart home. He waits at the end. So it's maybe they keep market by doing something else. Maybe he's trying. Yes. Keep control of of Syria, and he's John's coming Adam to narrow says he hasn't have time to resurrect kind of felt like the also wanted like we said before he lays a showman. He wanted that moment like hair, look what I could do John. It's maybe they'll try to keep him occupied brand might try to mental battle him to keep him from resurrecting the fallen because you're right because once that first clash and like after MandA, and he rises it up. It's it's pretty much a rat from there. Well, one of the rumored titles for the episodes exodus, and there's a promotional shot of John interior on a boat. So maybe they do go to the iron islands. I'm just like really interested to see how the the battle goes just because I don't know how they would fight it when you have someone who could bring back all of your dead soldiers. And then they're fighting against you. What do you do? I think this is just gonna. Be hard home times a million. It's just gonna be another slaughter. We're going to see the loss of a lot of main characters, which is also I think she is whole they'll they'll kill each other. Like, then the Nike angle bring him back. We'll she doesn't. I guess I mean, she saw the white. But again, like Judas not like she doesn't know the scope. She needs to see the night king. Once that was awesome. I think that comment one terrible news, Chris the army of the debt has made a pass the wall. She's like good. Hell you just her face to she's such a diabolical will miss. What did you think about the reunion between orien- the hound orien- Genry? I felt like that was the hounds way of saying I missed you. And I loved it because we were joking around a review. It's like, I don't know. I knew that like that's the perfect way for them to reunite. I kind of like aria. Oh, it's like it's like it's not going to happen. But my dump brain. I'm like, yeah. That'd be cool. Very glad you're alive. It like very very slightly seemed like they were both almost smiling. But how smile quirk? Yes. And I was like, yeah. That's what I needed from this like, obviously like they left on bad terms. But they also like were endeared to each other. So it was at that very moment to where the hound tells Brian. I'm watching over her now. So like, you said they did form some sort of bond, and he was kind of proud of her when she left him to die. So yes, other than you know, yelling curl Murray. No. But he says you're a co little bitch. That's probably while you're still alive. That's an amazing compliment from the hat, and I'm sure that they're not done with each other that there's going to be a moment where maybe they're side by side and the battle back to back back to back. It'll be so clean. And again, we're up like rocket and Bucky unions John to give you glimpse back that old Oreo and same again Dery season seven she was more like fresh off the faceless, assassins, like she's a completely different character. She's not trusting Sansa and here. It's more of that old aria that I think the fans adored from seasons one to four. Yeah. I don't mind are you? I didn't mind aria acting as a cold hearted assassin. No. And I mean either, but it's good to see that. How she got there. It's good to see that old. Like personality is still at a core. You know, she loves John. She you made that point on the preview video differ. The battle of went to fill that she's embracing being stark. Yeah. It's like she fell away from it. And then coming back to winter fell. It's like she started embracing it again, we'll John I mean with John that's our yet sees them one aurea like she felt like a kid again, which was great because we haven't seen that in so long. That smile was. She also hick Kendra with that means spin move. Yeah. She shoulder shoulder turn. And I also again felt like aria like when they were prisoners together. Like, it's not like their time. Together was the circumstances were that great, but they had a good relationship. And now that she's older and everything I think I don't know if this is confirmed or not I feel like the actress said that Gary was Arias I love or like she did love him and maisy Williams said Joe Dempsey's the sexiest man on the show. Young Christian bale. It's one of those things that's not going to happen. But I do like that they had a reunion and they flirted with each other a bit maybe it will happen. But do you think that weapon is somebody said that it's like a fuck in Owen arrow that if the night king were to catch it, then she can like detach? The dragging get a of like scale dragging the arrow towards. What I've seen people saying like, it's an arrow or a staff and not drawing I didn't see measurements. So not like. Brand's harness on the horse. Yeah. It just drew it up on the way there. That's how they're gonna get the dragons. Let's look like a spirit that detaches. But they don't have. They have building it in in one of the trailers, it looks like it's not that it detaches like you can shoot it. Look, you don't have that put it for extension. Oh, that's like a dagger. That you put it on top and extent. But then you can, you know, take it off as well. And if you wanna wielded and close combat so it's like a long long sword dagger close quarter. That's what I that's what I feel comfortable with that type of weaponry. That's where she trained with that stick. Yeah. Yeah. Something needle in that stick the broom stay with the wife, and now she has crap out of each other with those broomsticks. That's how you become a faceless, man. Sweep for twelve hours a day and get hit by the same broom snake for another twelve no sleep no food wash those dead bodies and go blind for like a few days. Yeah. Like mouth and get stabbed in the gutten and go see a show at Richard E grant was in that troop. Yes. Yeah. He's in there for like a Saudi watch like that Richard E very full. Yeah. What are you doing you need this money some going on need for an Oscar bigger role? I think he's going to be an episode nine two. So yeah, maybe that's why you got the role for the McCarthy movie. You rang very false. He ranked true there. I'll admit I forgot that was captured. I forgot that she was captured, but I didn't mind how quickly they just wrap that up. No a lot of people were saying that they were upset with that. No. That was perfect. That's why I consider this episode to be like a prologue for the rest of the season. Let's get everything out of the way. Let's tie up. These loose ends and focus on what matters big daddy ice. John John a little bit of brand and some Tyrian fief yet, socially. But he's another one to come on. I've made the claim that she has has had the most consistent arc. I hope. They have something in store for her. That is satisfying that she's not just crying over Jamie for these next couple of episodes. Now, she's going to have no place. She has no role to play an episode three. And it's going to be a huge episode. Oh, you've seen it at. So, you know, okay. That's like I'm guessing that she has. No, what does she do episode three becomes the golden the company like the knights of the veil on an elephant second yet a theon stuff? Go about yarn island. She'll take them that could come into play. Like, you said that is some somewhere maybe they could retreat to across the sea the ongoing up. It's a nice I think it's a good opportunity for him to fully redeem I mean, he did that by saving Yara something that he didn't do when you're on was in his face. And probably something that shamed. Him. He kind of redeemed himself in that regard. Now, it's his in his mind he has to make. Ends with the stocks because that was his biggest betrayal, right? And he's an honorary stark Cording to Jones. Now, why did narrate speak up and say I named John Ward in the north that was part of the deal. What when he bent the knee. I think John seated that's Sanga. He introduces a what lady of winter winter Phil he's so nice to every how many hints to people that. He doesn't wanna lead. He's not good at the politics. Here's an army over there. Beat him for me. He didn't wanna lead those jobs, then he died, and he was like, I really don't want to leave. And now they're like congrats. What's next? It's like, yeah. You're god. You are role are actually what's what's next year the night king? They fucking did that that's I think that's very possible. And talk about men that would be such a bummer. That's why it would be. I had the idea if they had to gag him and bound him to a tree similar to the first night king just one last FU to John snow. Yep. You have to do this now live for thousand years in that waterfall. All right. Yeah. So that's our spoiler discussion for episode one season. Eight winter fell will be back next week with another spoiler discussion. So Aaron nerd suit monkey thank you for joining me. No problem. Quick thing. We agree is that it's okay to spoil game of thrones during and right after you have because the names fucking rut right off of that. It's like everyone's like, oh, no one, no one. There spoil it for me. Once you can make a fire me advocate. Let's go 'cause I put like a spoiler tag on my vague comments. Just in case people out here just putting scenes on. So look out there. It's like, you're doing your campaign commercial, no agreed as society. Despoil game high. It's like teddy. No, you gotta be on. It man come on last. I can't do it. I feel bad because I was in that situation. Not everyone can wash episode on time or right after so while I was driving here. One of my friends was like I finally watched the episode, and I was like, thanks for letting me know. Don't care about anything. She doesn't listen to this. This is cri- right there. What are you doing imagine? She's number one. I get a text immediately. After somebody unnerved soup sounds suspiciously. Like you. All right. Yeah. So we'll be back next week. I can't wait now. Now after getting that first taste these weeks. This is going to be like the longest five weeks of my life. I'm looking I can't cat it on the seconds. And I said something something similar on Twitter. It's just like every moment of these like next five weeks. It's can't take it for granted. Because it's the last last time wherever be doing this feel so different to this time around. Yeah. Because you know, it's just like this is it. All right. We'll be back. Thanks for listening like subscribe share or don't channels being deleted in five weeks. Anyway, six we got the documentary. Hell you. Yeah. Like that.

John John Tyrian Tyrian John deniro Gary Army Jamie Twitter Santa Aaron Nike Tyrian Sam us rob west rose Tiger Woods Manchester Reagan Liana Oreo Randall
Game of Thrones Re-Watch | Season 5, Ep #8: Hardhome

Post Show Recaps

1:05:32 hr | 3 years ago

Game of Thrones Re-Watch | Season 5, Ep #8: Hardhome

"There's week's game of thrones. A rewatch is sponsored by our friends over at truecar who have some useful tips that you might not be aware of like how a coffee filter and a little bit of olive oil can clean the interior of your car. You can remove the excess weight from your car to improve the gas mileage, and you can also play a keychain remote right underneath your chin to increase its range. All weird tips. But here's a tip. That's not so weird. You can also get a used car from truecar. That's right. Truecar is not just for buying a new car with their certified dealer network nationwide inventory. Nearly one million us cars, you'll enjoy real pricing on the actual imagery. And he's simpler, buying experience with you buy new or use and with truecar you can see what other people paid. You'll know if you're getting a good deal before you buy and you'll also be more likely to enjoy a faster buying experience when you connect truecar certified dealers when you're ready to buy a new or used car, check out truecar to enjoy a more confident car buying experience. Some features not available in all states. Winter was here. But we are just getting started our rewatch of hard home season five episode eight from game of thrones. At now here the two guys who are ready to come at you cro-. I am rob cicirino here with Joshua. Josh. How are you? I'm doing well arm stretched out night king. Pose what hard home excellent episode of game of thrones. Wow. Really that final half hours. Arguably the best half hour and game of thrones history. Wow. I mean, there's hyperbolic commentary from from your journey me Donut me. That's essentially what the Nike is saying king is I think clearly saying at me. Yeah. At me, bro. Do it gum? Yeah. Make it happen. You know? You know, I don't know is that is that is that a such a wild tape that this is the single best half hour uninterrupted sequence of game of thrones. I don't think that you could say hard home is the best episode of game of thrones. Because there's other stuff that while not bad. Just isn't quite as exciting as the hard home sequence itself, but the whole structure of the heart. It reminds me of like aliens where you're invested in so many different characters who who you're getting to meet and you get to like the first big action scene of aliens. And like seventy percent of the people that you've met in that you've started to enjoy are just like totally wiped out on ceremoniously in such an incredible action sequence. It's kind of hard home in a nutshell heart homes like game of thrones is thirty minute distillation of aliens aliens is one of my favorite movies of all time. So I'm inclined to really left this episode. Yeah, I think there are not many uninterrupted, you know, half hour sequences that you could even put that in the conversation. So I think that's sort of the cheat code. Owed on that that hot take that heartache what about the purple wedding, purple wedding, his very very, very good. It's very different very different very different. I think that this this. You know, it's going to be interesting when we get to battle with the bastards, and we compare the action in hard home versus the action of battle the bastards once again directed by Miguel potch, Nick so some continuity there, but even thinking back to to blackwater just some of the things that you see in this episode in the way that the action is rendered is just so lights out. It's just so fricking good. If you're if you're to compare, you know game of thrones sequences like extended sequences of the show, this has to be in the conversation for one of the best weather you want to say it's better than the purple wedding or the red wedding sequence itself. The light of the seven sequence it's coming up at the season six finale, I think that is one of the standout moments of the entire show. But through this point of the rewatch, maybe just a sign that game of thrones just building on itself when you when you get to this moment in season five and all hell breaks loose. And you see the night king and action for the first time second time overall. It's just such an electric moment that really almost a racing. Everything else that you've gotten to. It's like now, you're really reminded of what the true stakes are here in this world of ice and fire that it doesn't matter. What's going on in king's landing? It doesn't matter. Who's vying for the thrown down there, it really only matters about the king and the north and I'm not talking about John. I'm talking about the night king. So I love it. I just think I think it's so great and season five continuing to defy expectations for me here on the rewatch. Okay. So let's see get into everything from this episode. Of course, the whole second half the episode is going to be everything going on at hard home. But we do a lot of big stuff going on here. Especially in The Danny storyline where Danny and Tyrian Lancaster, really talk things through a number of times in this episode. They're getting to know each other. You know, it's a it's a fun. Meet not so cute. You know, there's some there's some cute moments in here. But it's really it's like meet business. I guess that's called a business meeting, and there's sort of talking things through about why are you here? You know, what do you have to offer? And I guess tearing is trying to sell the any on the idea that he should be an adviser for her campaign, but it's a very soft cell. Well, I think that he is he's being buried Tyrian Lancaster here. And he's kind of he is of the mind at least when we meet him in the beginning of this season of you know, what just kill me. Let me die. I'm going to drink myself to death. I've got nothing to live for anymore. And then various gives him this intriguing idea of don't you want to at least meet deniro star, Gary and don't you want to see some dragons in person? This is something that could potentially happen for you interiors. Like all right as long as I can drink on the way. So he's already kind of have he has a cavalier attitude about his life. He doesn't wanna die in a horrible way. Which is why I think he's very much fighting for his. Life when he meets the stone men, and when he meets Mr. echo, he doesn't want to be dismembered does not want to share the ungraded Speight. But he I think that he has a little bit of a carefree attitude about himself where he himself feels like he's kind of playing with with house money, where he's you know, he's here he wants to he wants to interview denarius just as much as he expects. He's being interviewed on fear the Walking Dead much like out on the Walking Dead, which is giving you a story. Definitely something that nobody was thinking. Than unlikely appearance of an Al from fear, the Walking Dead reference here in winter was here in this in the year eighteen October twenty eighteen while Al on the Walking Dead is still a thing a year from now, I would not Bank on it. So Tyrian he has heard about this baby that was born in storm, and she had no land, and no money and no army and here she is. And now she has all three and Danny desks here. Well, why should I bother with you? What's so great about you? Yeah. Well, he's talking about how you know. It's our guarantee could be could be intense. You know, why why should I feel like you are going to be the right person? Here why we've just met. Why should I feel like you deserve my service interior kind of list out his own resume a little bit of talking about like, I'm the greatest Lancaster killer. That's ever been born. Why do you deserve me? Yeah. Because she is an enemy of the louder. Hey, look, if you hate Lancaster's while I'm your person. But I'm your guy Tyrian and tries to rebut. Danny's? Claim that look I have an army. I have dragons what do I need you for and Tyrian tells her that look killing and politics is not one in the same. Right. There's certainly been a lot of great kings, and queens who have murdered ruthlessly and have been affective in that way. But have often lost their lives and their rule pretty quickly afterwards. So that's why he wants to AC if she's got the stuff and be why he believes that he has the stuff to guide her in the right direction. Why he has the experience he served his hand of the king. He did a very good job. And just like, okay. Well, you know, talking about it is one thing. What's the what's put the job into practice? Here's Giora more Mont. Here's this lovesick fool who who betrayed me deeply, I'm not a big fan of his. I said I would kill him. If I ever saw him again here in marine. What do I do the jury and he's put to the test right away? Yeah. He's like let me think about it. Well. You know, he definitely loves you. He did betray you. Did he have an opportunity to confess his betrayals? Yup. Time. Yeah. Hundred percent million majorities. We talked privately several times. So it was an unpleasant truth, but he didn't trust that you would be smart enough to forgive him. So Dan, should I kill him? No don't kill him. But he can't be here. And you expect Jordan be like come on. Well, this is like this is Terry. Thank you. Yeah. But you brought me into the old Valerian almost got me gray scale. I'm lucky I didn't get a Kuti spot this Tyrians way of being kind toward Giora. He's actually saved Jawara's life already at this point where we're Mr. Recco. And the slavers are gonna kill Giora. And then Tyrian speaks up for him. He's like, no don't kill them. So I think like some measure of mutual respect has emerged between these two guys. But they're now at the point this is where this was the destination that they were both trying to reach tearing wanted to see Danny anyway, Giora took him to see Danny Giora thought that he was going to buy. Back his place in Danny's cabinet by selling her, essentially Tyrian, Lancaster, and that's just not going to be how this works. If Tyrian is going to walk out of this with his head intact. He has to give to nurse the best advice. He possibly can. While also the side benefit of that being some measure of mercy towards Lord more Mont in the fact that he is not going to get killed. He should be lucky that he is walking out with his head intact. So I think in its own way much as the aero was a mercy to man's raider. I think that the move to once again exile Giora while a bit repetitive is is a mercy for that man as well. All right. So they take Giora away. Let's go to the black cells and check out what's going on with that Nella. And sir c yeah. It's a quick scene. There's going to be a little bit more later on. I think we could Yar Yar this September ele- socks, sir. See is not a fan services like getting smacked by a spoon and getting water held out on her. She's only allowed to drink. If she is. She's not gonna. Confess confess. Yeah. And she once again reiterate, I told you I meant it. My face is going to be lasting see before you smack in the face. But of course, we know that we'll get the last laugh on septa eventually just what was the nila doing before the high Sparrow really came into his own probably torturing other people probably just like doing a lot of like religious torturing or she may be was like, I don't know. Just hanging out in the cell waiting for her big moment. Okay. All right. Let's go over to Bravo's and check in with what aria is working on and a little bit of this the game of faces. It's a little bit of the game of faces. And it seems like Arias doing a much better job as she is talking about her new persona as. The voice tres, clams and cockles girl. Yeah. And she is going to go and try on this identity, and we're going to see that Jack and gar is going to task her with a new assignment right ditch moon singer lane. I guess it's actually Raghman lane. I'm sorry. That was a lie. You're no longer going to be turning left onto Raghman lane. You're going to Raghman harbor. Yeah. Yes. And you need to go and work with your voice, tres, clams, and cockles and sell them to a skinny man slender man, the thin, man. This man is an entirely different thing would be very terrifying. In the world of Gatemouth. Yeah. That'd be horrible. Is going to be sent to this thin, man. Who does this this like work with these like ship captains, he's a gambler he wages that a sailor ship is going to make it to its destination. And the captain only wins. If you loses his life seems like a terrible bet. I don't understand why anyone would really get in on it. It seems like a terrible bed. And I think the punchline is he bets that you won't get back or that. He he he bets that you will get back. And then when you die and you lose, but then he doesn't pay your family. I think that that's sort of the scam here. Right. That's a good scam. It's very I don't know feels berry like Java Han solo right? Like the the whole idea of like just like betting big on one guy. And then, you know, if you owe me in the longer, you're way, the more you owe me these guys are lucky that they're not being frozen in carbonite also very impressive. That aria is able to just like shuck annoy. Mr. so fast. I feel like that is indicative of some time that must have elapsed while aria has been posing as the Ana because to to learn the art of just popping and oyster like that. That's got to take at least months to really master. And I don't know if we explored this in the real time. I don't know where REI gets always stirs does Jack and Hagar have a seafood guy that they have a connection seems like that, you know, how does she just automatically start up this seafood business? Yeah. I don't know. They really just kind of. I think they they did us the mercy of not going into the deep dive details about how that all came together. I can live without the game of thrones spin off about aria stark becoming Alana the clams and cockles girl on the details guy, though, I liked it. And they know you are I know you getting in the weeds on this. UC weed man, the jo-john weeds right now what I don't understand is. Okay. We we sort of explored what this guy's scam is. And then it's like, okay, Josh Wigley is like, well, I'm going on a trip to Fiji it could be dangerous. I bet that I won't get back. Okay. And he's like, oh, I bet that you will. And then okay. But then this guy is like, well, it's my eighteenth trip. Like, I'm gonna I'm betting I won't get back this time, and he's like no deal. That's it. Get outta here out of my wife if it's a scam. Why doesn't he take? This guy's money. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know that the man is. Strange strange bird. Good thing. We're not going to have to deal with him. Very long. Yeah. All right. So Ari is tasked with keep your eye on this guy. Keep your eye on this guy. Yeah. That seems to be a decent plan as long as nobody from her past shows up and comes a distraction coming down the line because we know that this guy likes his oysters. He likes them with vinegar thing, by the way. Yeah. Absolutely. A minute. I'm not an oyster guy. Josh, I'm not a huge oyster guy myself. I dabbled in oil stirs. I can enjoy the occasional user. I don't really seek them out very actively. But if if an oyster comes my way, I'm not going to be URI's about it. And I've encountered many in my time. Have you know, you can have a little cocktail sauce that that could be really good. You can have the classic minute sauce a little bit a little bit horseradish in there, perhaps though that's really in the cocktail sauce. The minuet is really like shallots chop show. It's a little bit of like the vinegar that gives it kind of like, the pickling taste it. Can it can be good stuff as long as the quality of the oysters are good. And that's really the thing. Kind of like Easter guy. I mean, I'm just trying to give you a little bit of insight into what the officers are like, I'm not a big fan of like, the briny oyster that really tastes like the ocean and pretty much any oyster is going to at least taste a little bit like the ocean. So it's just not going to be my default thing. But I'll eat I'll eat just about anything at this point. I'm I'm I'm a glut. That's one of my sins. Well, aria is going to be given a little bit of the poison for Mr. thin, man. This is going to be some spiked vinegar that she's going to be serving up. Yeah. And then she walks away in the wave. Says I don't think she's ready for this. I don't think she's ready for this jelly. Yeah. And somebody's really jelly. It would seem. Yeah. In jacket as well. If she dies. She dies cares. But I don't think he really believes that he seems to be a big aria fan. Yeah. So he's just telling the wave which wants to here. Yeah. I think so it's all the same to the many face God. Indeed. Indeed. Maybe he does believe that where it's like if that's what her fate is in. That's what her fate is. So who we then go to see, sir? See again. And now she's getting a visit from Khyber. Yes. So this is the bigger scene of the episode where Khyber n- shows up and seriously. So tell me what's going on. How bad is it? Like. It's very bad situation. It's not good. Every single update that Khyber and has for C is in the in the red. This is bad. The highest barrows presenting a substantial case, the charges are fornication treason. Incest, even the murder of gang. Robert. It's the belief is is often the death of reasons. So even if you are saying that these are lies the fact that people believe them will overrule the fact that you've got a case in your corner. No one's gonna care about that. By the way, none of them are allies. They're all. Seriously, can insist on all of them are lies. None of this is true. But she's she's definitely she's definitely in big trouble here in very big trouble here, how Khyber n- becomes servcies legal counsel. There's not somebody that's more qualified. I mean, they feel like that. This is not seem like it's in his wheelhouse. Because she's got no one else. Nobody else. There's no Lancaster lawyer anybody to go. Yeah. She doesn't have anybody. Everybody hates Lancasters at this point. Certainly everybody hates, sir. She made her big move the high. Sparrow, was kind of her guy the highest Barry was no longer her guy. Khyber news really her only guy, we even get as as the story develops. Here is hybrid inserts. You're talking there's no word from Jamie, Jamie's often Dohrn. So there's nobody to talk to their grandmaster pie cell who has been a big Lancaster guy for a long time. And this is this is something that I didn't really remember. But it's one of the benefits of the. Watch not that it matters much in the grand scheme of things. But I think we've appreciated the grandmaster pice L sub story that has been running throughout the show that slowly and slowly. And slowly seriously has just been dissing this guy and really just you know, subtly jabbing at him in knocking him down. And finally Maistre by sells like I'm calling on Kevin. And he's going to be the guy, and I'm not gonna come and speak to search the I've got no interest in that. So she's already pushed away this guy who's been in her corner for a very long time alkyl, Kevin not interested doesn't wanna see sir c at all not on her terms anyway. And we also hear that that poor little Tom is doing poorly at time. So everybody is doing poorly. Everybody's having a horrible time. The only way out is to confess and sir. Sees just refusing to do that. But he bring him voice tres. Maybe he might like that. Maybe he isn't always to guy. Yeah. He could be a noise guy. I feel like I could see that. Yeah. Eventually sept- Annella comes in. It's like all right parties over party's over. It wasn't much. Party. Yeah. It was bad. I just confess just could fast. That's it. But he does leave her with like one silver lining where he says the work continues. And the implication there is surrounded strong is still in development not that that's really going to bear fruit for her in her way out the door here. So I don't know why he's maybe he's just kind of showing off. He's like he will be there to carry her back into the red keep. Yeah. And you know, he's an enforcer later on you know, he gets his gold are on. But that's really about it. But he's it. Maybe he's just like looking for an Atta boy nobody's been around to tell carbon. You're doing a great job. So he just wants to hear I guess. Yeah. Good job, man. That's great. All right. Let's go back to a winter fell. And we see as seen with Sansa and theon and theon or Rica comes into see Sansa. She's like why why did you wrap me out re is like the Marie because I'm reading all of this stuff is horrible. And I don't know what to do. Yeah. Yeah. She's like, no. You're a terrible person. I'm glad that you've been turned into re brothers. I like this. It's it's just like, you know, what I'm happy everything that bad that happened to you. I wish I would have done it. I would have been very happy to done all the things which is very dark look for for for Sansa. Stark. I don't know if this is just anger or this is real. But the things that happened to theon. I can't imagine that she would have actually wanted to do any of that stuff. Yeah. But then wreak slash theon. He does crack a little bit. And then reveals that the boys that he killed were not actually Brandon Rick on yet. They were just these little farm kids who I killed and I burn them so badly. So nobody would know that their Brandon Rick on and then he freaks out, and he leaves and Santa seems to be very excited about the fact that Brandon Rick on are are still alive. No love lost for the farmboys two. Kids did die here. Let's not be callous. Right. But Santa's like well. At least they weren't my brothers. So. Happy so bitter sweet sweet for Sansa sweet bittersweet. Okay. And the still don't Kobe theon. I'm Marie I'm rea-. All right. So we see Roose Bolton in the war room. And he is planning what they're going to do that status. His men are coming. And he says, look here's what we do. We just hide out here their horses can't jump over the walls. We have six months of food. It's winter there men are gonna mutiny. This is a great plan. Right. And Ramsey's like, you know, I'm really good at being a terrible person on a master of stealth you could just activate Bolton stealth mode and bring twenty people into his his camp. And we can we can call this now, which is obviously foreshadowing the first wave of the battle between status and Ramsey, which is a is a short war between these two, but Ramsey's really going to be dunking on standards breath unit every turn. Yeah. 'cause Roose Bolton doesn't want to send an army in the snow to go fight Santa's. But Randy says he can do it with twenty men Roose Bolton. Okay. Fine, fine. It'll get you out of my hair for a week fine. They'll do whatever you have to do. We don't need an army. We have a Holck. Yes. Actually, the John's no has a whole now. More on that to come. Yes. All right back in marine, Danny interior in are still talking through about what they're going to be doing and how much they have in common, and they end up turning the conversation back to their horrible fathers. This is a great scene. I mean the first scene between Danny interior is also excellent. And I you know in last week's episode, and then the first one in this episode, but this is really the great Danny interior seen so far of this series. And it was just I remember being so excited watching it the first time through being I've never seen these two characters in Iraq before this is awesome. We've wanted this for so long, and it was just like a really great preview of the potential of this show. And where things could be going as we were starting. To move towards the end zone here. But to hear sort of the symmetry in their stories of their horrible, fathers and Tehran's like my brothers. The only other person in the world I trust other than various. And she's like, oh, you mean the brother who killed my dad was like. Yeah. As awkward, but you know, just the way the interconnectedness between these two stories, I think is is really really excellent in the performance is here from Gingrich and Clark or just on par. Yeah. And they do verbally Spar back and forth. Not that they're fighting. But they go back and forth, and it's very fun to watch the interaction between the two of them. And so they're talking about you know, what would your father did what would your father do? And they're talking about. How Tyrian ultimately says that we're to terrible children of two terrible fathers. Danny's like, wait. Why am I? Terrible. Yeah. I've heard some stuff, but maybe the right? Kind of terrible. Yeah. You're good bad. Good bad. And so Dan, no, she wants to be good bad. Yeah. She's feeling a little bit regretful about opening the fighting pits again tunes. Like, no. That was great. That was a good move. You know, people wanted that. So that was good. That was smart that was wise in you marrying somebody you don't like that's also good. That's for the greater good. That's great. That's impressive. That's already two points in your favor. I'm feeling good about so Tyrian would like to stay and help denarius with her 'cause and is willing to bring Tyrian onboard. Yes, she seems to be open to it. She says all right. I'm not gonna kill you your macgyver. Now. You're my adviser you're going to advise me, but you have to stop drinking so much and he's like all right? I quit. Yeah. And tearing asked in heiress about you know, his what what we have me do. And she says I need to help me get what I want and she implying the iron throne and tearing at pick something else. Yes. Yeah. Again, like, I think at Tyrian is potentially even giving voice to to wear the story, maybe heading with generis that the iron throne is the thing that she covets the thing that she thinks that she wants that thing that she thinks that she is destined for when in actuality, maybe that's not it. Maybe she's destined for something bigger. She's destined for something a little bit more important. But she does give a convincing sales pitch here. When Tyrian talks about let's be generous. And assume that you're going to be able to convert the commoners over to your side, you had the support of communists here in slavers bay. You were ruling without the rich that did not starting to not go. So well over in west rose, you need people who back you. There's not a lot of people who are going to back. You maybe the Tyrrells will. That's not impossible. But it's not enough and Danny's like I don't need their help. I'm there. Spokes on a wheel I'm gonna break the wheel. I'm going to change the whole thing. And it's impressive rhetoric. But without a real action plan. You know, what is it real? Yeah. Although in fairness here to Danny when Tyrian is saying, well, maybe you should pick something else. If I'm Danny like, well, what are you here? What are we talking about? Then if we're not talking about getting to the iron throne. What do I need your help with rolling marine? Because nobody wants me to do that. No, I advise you to leave marine it's gotten boring here. Yeah. So I don't know exactly. What tier Ian is thinking about here. But you know, I think I think part of it too. Probably is it's devil's advocate stuff where it's like he's trying to get her to think about the reality of the situation. So she starts thinking about it in a wiser more pragmatic way. He's testing. Yeah. You know, she could still take over west rose. She just has to do it the right way. And tearing things maybe he has more of an idea of what the right way would be up. And so ultimately, you know, there's talking about the great houses. And Danny says that you know, it's all just spokes on a wheel this one's on top. And that one's on top. And on spins crushing the people on the ground and Tyrian says, okay, I get it. You wanna stop the wheel? But you're not the first person ever think about that. And Danny says, I'm not going to stop the wheel. I'm going to break the wheel. Josh what's his breaking the wheel look. Like, I think that means completely reshaping the image of west roasts where it's not, you know, it's not stopping the wheel. It's breaking the wheel where the northerners are completely loyal to Danny. There's no more, you know, kingdoms, it's all one place. But I mean, frankly, we don't know yet. We just haven't seen enough of what Danny's idea for ruling western is right now. I don't think so necessarily. You know, maybe she beans like wiping out any of those power structures, though that like Stark's are no better than anybody else. Tyrrell's are no better than anybody else that the class system is destroyed. I think that could be something that she is. I yeah. So we'll see we'll see I don't know if she really has a plan for that. Well, we'll see as we get season seven when we reapproach some of that stuff. I don't know either. Yeah. Yeah. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Good. I hopefully somebody will. All right Giora is going back to the slave master. He wants back in. Yeah. Put me in goes. Just wants to fight again. He wants to he wants to fight for Danny again. Yeah. I mean, this guy cannot take a hint. Now, he is really insisting that he he gets to be part of Danny's coalition. It's like, maybe if I fight again, she'll be into it this time, I'll show her. Yeah. Buddy, buddy. Get a hint command. So we go back to septa nila insurgency and LSU does got her ladle her ladle with water like confess confess like some of this water. And then she's not responding to any of services offers. No, really, not like services really trying to be like, please. I'm going to get out of here. I could make you really wealthy do Noah just not hearing nine here for at all. No. And then she pours the water on the floor and services trying to drink some of that dirty floor, which I guess you gotta do if that's the only water, which is a tough situation that being said seriously kind of ground yourself into this situation. Now does she get the water and then gets to confess because can she do like a chunk from the goonies style. Confession. That's the like like a bunch of different stuff. Oh my God. The the surf shop. Yeah. Then this one time my brother pinch. I pinched him so hard that the red viper thought that I was going to seriously hurt him. And then the worst thing I ever done was. It's on the tip of my tongue water. Right. Sir, sir. Seeing a Hawaiian t-shirt is hilarious idea. All right. So we're going to see Sam rocky road. Yeah. Salmon Gillian they're kinda just doing the post mortem on key road. Yeah. Yeah. Salmon. How is that? That was great was good. How's your face? It's okay here. Always here. RA's here soon obligatory. I'll check and you know, I wonder I feel like I might have been too hard on Ali, the I I don't I don't find him as you're tasting on the rewatch. What do you attribute that to? I think I just sort of like a see his side of things a little bit more where I think that I was maybe the first time through Jon snow is the best who are you? Where do you get off questioning the wisdom of the Lord commander, right and say. Say that John snow made some mistakes in terms of his messaging. Yes, I think that's the thing. I think we'll even be able to pick pick some of that apart in this. The final half of the episode Johnson says some curious things, but I agree. I think that it's less about what John snow wanting with John's snow wants is very noble and is correct. I think that the way that he has been phrasing. That stuff has left a lot to be desired to the point. Where Ali who should be a really easy sell. Somebody who is like the biggest Jon snow fan in the world is going to just a couple of episodes from now plunged dagger into Johnston's chest feels like that was a heart and mind, you could of converted. Yeah. And Ali is asking Sam. But why why are we doing this again? Jon snow, like didn't they killed my family and not all Wild Wings. And always like look the red headed dude killed the raid that killed my my parents and sands like oh on the there's no rebuttal to that. You've moved yourself into a place. There's just no refuting. That fact. Yeah. In San mistress. Well, there's the army of the dead. They're going to they're going to come. Ollie's fixated on the the Wild Wings. Well, what if they cut our throats while we're sleeping? Yeah. Well, he's just not. He's just he's not buying into the whole army of the dead thing. I don't think anybody really is. Right. It's much easier to see the threat that's at your door, especially when they killed your parents. Yes. Indeed. Yeah. Okay. At the end of this conversation, though, Ali is like looking confused and Samson's, don't worry Ollie. I've been worrying about John for years. He always comes back. He always comes back. Yeah. Obviously little him. All each just remember that he'll come back. You'll hang you. They'll hang you within forty eight hours of being dead. He'll be back. Just remember that before you try to kill him. He always comes back. You. Warn you. I think that when I when I think back on my feelings on season five, I think that I was mostly annoyed by the way in which the game of thrones creators, tried to leave us with zero hope for John snow's return when there's moments like this. He always comes back. There was just so many reasons to believe that John wasn't going to stay dead and just the cagey -ness of Benny off in Weiss about the whole matter. That was really the thing that variated me the most granted there's some storylines the season that are just a little subpar. But I think a lot of the feelings of IRA of had toward season five are more on the meta factor. And I think that there are mitigated in binge mode. I think when you're watching the show just all the way through a lot of that stuff feels lesson for me that the way that the show runners handled all of this after the show was was not great was not great. I think the just like the way in which they they left us with. Any kind of like real wink and nod when it was just so obvious. I felt like that was that was an annoying an annoying bit for me. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's go to hard home. And that's where we will spend the rest of the episode and we spend a good thirty five minutes here. In harlem. It's great. I'm glad it's awesome. It's it's such a great sequence the whole thing just kind of feels like its own mini movie. It's almost like it's its own like half hour episode of game of thrones. Which is a little bit of a new trend for the for the drama these days, but thirty minute drama episode. I'm I'm really feeling that vibe. And I think when you think about hard home, you mostly think about the stuff that we're getting into here. Okay. So Josh Jesus set up what is hard home. So hard home is it's basically a stronghold of the Wild Wings north of the wall. It's a it's a fishing village. And all of the Wild Wings have or many of them at least like the surviving Wild Wings. So many of them from different clans. That's why we're seeing all these different clan leaders. They've gathered here just as things have been getting. So so terrible in the in the wake of STAN is coming and destroying man's raiders army. These are the people who were able to escape that. And they're all just like hold up here waiting to figure out. Well, what do we do? Now, we're without manse raider where without a real. Oh, clear direction. And this is why John has come to these people to be like, hey, come with us. You're you're safe below the wall. You're certainly safer there than you are up here. Okay. So we see John and torment get greeted by the Lord of bones. Lord of buds is back. Lord bones is back for five seconds. I was so excited to see him. I know love the Lord above. No, good old bones, buddy. Just gets his his shit wrecked. And like the first five minutes of. I think it's really like diminishes the legacy of Lord of bones is really percents percent completely smacked. Her ally tore giants it's sort of like, you know, what is this guy doing with like a skeleton on his face? Yeah. I mean giants being is a is a bad ass for sure when we were led to believe that so was rattle shirt. And he just gets like very seriously punched at perhaps like Lord of bones could see and didn't have like a skeleton over his face. Maybe he might be more formidable opponent well at the like modified the skull helmet. Maybe I think like he needed it to be like more of like a grid iron. Look, I think would have would have been helped. He's intimidating, but it seems like that, you know, it actual practice that may be, you know, just wearing a skull over your faces. You know, not the best move like form over function. Yeah. Anyway. So he's like a who are you? Why are you here? What are you doing? Why are you with this guy, and they're trying to tell Lord bones? No, we're allies now. Yeah. So strike one for John snow. I think allies speaking for torment here like just like stepping in and thinking that he is already able to speak effectively to the to the culture of the Wild Wings here. Torment kind of gives Jonah luck being like dude, stop don't don't say that let me deal with this. And obviously, it goes over very poorly with the Lord of bones who just like immediately starts ripping into torment before torment is forced to rip into the Lord of bones. Right. And the Lord of bones is making some homophobic comments to Jon snow and Ormond, which you know. Hey, not cool Lord of bones. Germans got no time for it. He's not here for that. He doesn't like the insult. He stands up for John. Oh, he stands up for himself. And he just destroys decimates the Lord of bones, very swiftly. So it was a completely disastrous appearance for the Lord of bones. Just completely tarnished. His legacy. No, it's very bad. Agree that would have been a much better deal for him for sure. Tell me alive. Yes. Okay. All right. So John is get everybody together. It's gonna make his pitch to the wild links. Yes. And this is one of the areas in which he could really use some work. I mean, he's he's being honest. He's like, we're not friends. We've never been friends. We're probably not going to become friends today. This is about surviving this about putting my wall between you and what's out there and carseat the wild Ling. She's like you build that wall to keep us out. And then Loboda says when you guys since when do you guys give a crap about if we live or die says in normal times, we don't these are not normal time. Yup. These two people that you mentioned Loboda the thin and then car see the wild Ling. They get like a nice media roles in this episode. I think that's a big reason why I love this episode so much is certainly. People have to die in this sequence in order for it to be really really effective. But there's characters here who have more important stuff to do moving forward. You can't really lose Jon snow at hard home. You can't lose torment here dollars. Ed is going to be the guy who's going to be taking on the night's watch. Since we've already killed so many of the night's watch characters you need to keep him alive. So that there's somebody recognizable. So what's the move? And I think that the move here is a kill somebody recognizable instantly in the Lord of bones. Even if he's not a main character just the way in which he is killed so swiftly. I think starts to unsettle you that things could go very differently in very very badly for many of the people here on. But also, it's like it's like boosting up the red shirts. It's like turning the faking you into thinking that these red shirts or gold shirts that he no car. See is somebody who potentially is going to be like a main character. It seems like she's got some good chemistry with John snow seems like she certainly has history with tournament. Giants pain Loboda is like being set up as like somebody who could be. Counter argument to the pens as we had seen them before. Somebody who's a little bit more. A little bit more manageable. Even if he's taking a hard line against John snow, of course, one one just by size alone is somebody who you're going to who you're really gonna feel for right away. Somebody who's going to have a lot of great impact. So you're kind of tricked into thinking that these are new characters on the show as we're incorporating the wild things more into the game of thrones story, these are people that we're gonna wanna watch moving forward. Even carseat kind of represents this character named Val from from from the books that never made it onto the show. This woman in the wild wing culture that John has a really close relationship with. So there's a lot of ways that the story is setting up. This version of what they're gonna do by killing them off in really horrible ways and berry suddenly in a manner in which you are not expecting even though you just met these people that you already feel you feel something when you lose these people, I think that's a really effective job. Both in the writing the direction of the episode the acting of the episode it just makes you feel very invested in the fight at heart home. Yeah. And John is trying. To talk to them about the white walkers or coming, and we have this dragon glass, we can we can fight them. We need you guys to be enrolled in this battle against them. And the nobody's really super interested in what he's trying to say John is gonna namedrop manse raider. Yeah. And he's like, I knew Mance raider. He would've wanted you guys here. And then everyone's like, so where's manse? Hadn't thought that through. Yeah. So he says manse raider died. And John has like an opportunity here to explain what happened to man's Reiter with some detail in context, and instead he chooses to say, I put an arrow through his heart. What's? Yeah. Yeah. No, not big fans of that. Understandably. Okay. Very much. So Josh very understanding comes in. And he smooths things over did torment and John snow work that bid out where. Okay. But I'll say that I put through hot. So that you come in. And you you like make me look good like I'm like a bad as there was a great idea. Good cop, bad Comcast's. I love it. Yeah. I love the good out comforting. Because if they didn't then it's a bad job on John snow that being said, I think it is very consistent with John snow's character. At least as game of thrones is presented him. We have the benefit here of knowing. How Jon snow is going to react at the at the dragon pit in king's landing at the end of season seven when they're all making the appeal of like, hey, we all got to fight together. Like the second version of this exact scene, and it's just it's it's going to go poorly there as well because John snow just cannot tell a lie, or at least can't even give context. You know, like, you could at least be a little more, honest, a little less like honesty could still exist with context, you don't just have to skip right to the very literal definition of how this man died. Explain what happened. Well, they were going to set them on fire, and I didn't want that to happen. I respected man's Reiter. And that's a bad way to die. So I use it because easy when he infiltrated the Wild Wings like he did lie like he can do it. Yeah. Spin. Yeah. Baby. That just like it. Tired him out so much like he's just he's against doing it. They never again be like, okay. This is your mission you need to sort of like paint these facts in a different way. Yeah. So in that, great, not great. But torment ends up saying like, no it was a mercy. He did a whole good thing. And I like this guy. And so the woman car see she says, look, I lost the budget members of my family fighting against the crows and Johnson. Look, don't forget, you're dead. I won't forget mine. But we gotta work together kind of team up. Yes. And so they sell some people on this. Some people are okay. Like car sees into it. We see we see that one one. He's good. He's happy to he. He's all about tormented. That's really the thing is that both Carr C and and one one. Another wildly as well. They're kind of like Storman thinks this is the way we trust torment. The thin Loboda is not into it. Not feeling it. Yes. He says that no this is a trick. They're going to slit your throats once they get you on the boat. Correct. Yeah. Just really refusing to consider his true self interest. Not doing the research, not stopping to think about the process here. Just very blindly buying in on what the typical wildland philosophy here is versus them. And there's no way no way whatsoever. That we can set aside some of our differences to save our skins in the immediate moment is a very bad look for for this line of thinking, I think, and then John doesn't really even rebut that he's like doesn't even make any sense. Why would we come all the way to do that? Yeah. Yeah. Just like it's a it's a limited amount of people that are willing to come along for the ride. Yeah. All right. But there are some people on board. So I guess something is better than nothing. And so we learn that it'll be about five thousand or so roughly I mean, that's John's estimation term, and he's not a counter, you know, that really his wheelhouse. Yup. All right. So everybody is getting onto the boat, including Carr sees children. Yeah. And this is a another great moment that gets you a little more invested in carseat, and certainly sets up her own death that, you know, she's saying goodbye to her children here everything she's doing here is for the sake of her children. And then she's just going to get wrecked by me children. Yeah. So just how many people should we assume have made it off to the ships before the disaster strikes at heart home. I did a decent amount. But if it's easiest people did don't you dare. It's a a solid amount of people. Here have have made the made the schlep. But I think we lose much more than we ultimately gain. Sure. All right. So we see a little bit of business back inside that one one the giant is messing around with the dragon glass, a kind of gets into it with with Ed. Yeah. He says like low key role, which says something vulgar in giants yank anyway. So we start hearing some bad noises bad noises, the dogs here at first day. They are aware of what's going on before anybody else. Yes. And very quickly all hell breaks loose where even the thin who has been leading the charge this exodus out of heart home. And really where are they going? Like, why are they leaving hard home is a good question? Like all the John scooping up all the people who wanna leave. Don't you think that like now you've just? Got more room to stretch out and hard home like the like, the prime real estate and hard home. Some of that's now up for grabs. You would think. So. But then, you know, it's also, you know, winter and maybe there's there's nowhere good in the north in this bar, north, your this is probably the criminal a cram is it that's the hard home is the best. I don't think it's the worst. I think I don't think that there's any place. That's particularly plush other than caress does. What about easy home, easy, home doesn't exist? That's something. You've invented doesn't exist that we know of. But I mean, if I was wildly real estate agent. I think I would set up shop in easy home. Like, why aren't you sick of life in hard home? Wouldn't you like to make a new life for yourself in easy home? Oh, the wild things. Like it rough. They oh, they like it. Okay. So then they would think you were Opposers. And if you were easy home, easy, home is west rose. Yeah. Hard hard home is is the true north. Okay. All right. So let's shut the gate shut the gate because I'm hearing bad noises. Yeah. And so this is this is when the battle the battle begins all these people were on the other side. They're like, no, no, no. This is bad. This is bad. They shut him out there pounding on the gate and then very quickly the pounding ceases. Why do they have a gay like this is this because the whites come like this before or other Wild Wings? No, it's to protect themselves from raiders alright law start, and so they start hearing all of this craziness. They closed the gate as a bunch of Wild Wings that are on the other side of the gay. They're all screaming and also that gets quiet. Yes. It gets very quiet. And then it stops being quiet. It starts being louder and more urgent and there are all sorts of dead. People skeletal remains of. Of old Wild Wings and other such people. Maybe some nights watching them in mixed in there as well. Who knows they're all they're all gathered together, and they're all trying to get in all hell breaks. It's getting crazy. They're climbing the fence at trying to come through the fence and things are getting out of control. There's a big fight sequence that emerges your defines the remainder of heart home in this whole sequence is certainly the reason that people remember this episode, right? And it gets a little hard to describe the action any highlights that you want to speak up before we get to some of the individual battles. No. I mean, I just I just love it. I love like the sword sticking through the gate, and John like fighting them back off in this. This guy Loboda is just immediately just like realizing I have messed up. This was a mistake should a believe the crow. I just think I think that's all that's all super fun. John realizes, oh, we need the dragon glass, I brought all the dragon glass here. Sam said, that's the thing. That's going to be able to kill a white Walker. I need to go back and get the dragon glass. Get the dragon glass. Go get that dragon glass and Loboda is like all right. I'm I'm on your side. Now, I messed up we're going to do this together. So the two of them are going to go into this cabin. And lo and behold Loboda, and behold, a white Walker is waiting for them and getting the dragon glasses going to be a more complicated effort than either of them realized. Yes, and John is going to engage in hand to hand combat with a white Walker something that nobody has ever done before and live to tell the tale. DJ Sammy slayer get I guess we forget this Loboda certainly will not live to tell the tale. He's like go get the dragon glass. I got this dope. I don't got this shattered immediately, and he is stabbed in the gut doubt. And so John is a battling the white Walker. And now he has long claw which happens to be a Valerian steel sword. Right. And so we are going to come to realize that that is that is white Walker kryptonite in addition to the dragon glass, Valerian steel is very effective against these guys. The white Walker is going to shatter instantly one I feel like that's wild. How they just explode like that. It's so neat. So. Just that moment is awesome. That moment is so great. When he, you know, the sound has like drowned out because John has had the wind knocked out of him at this point. He's crawling towards the sword. The white walkers crawling is like stalking toward him. You feel of course, Jon snow is going to be able to get out of this. But how so you're just kind of like waiting for what's the punchline going to be? So there's just like this heart racing element to it. He grabs the sword. The stands up just in the Nick of time in the fact that his sword doesn't shatter on impact against the white walkers weapon is in itself. It's a revelation. It's like oh. Well, long claws pretty special. Oh, wow. Long claws berry special as John does the sweet spin move and just shatters this guy into a million bits. It's awesome. It's amazing. It's a it's a really cool scene. Just in the crafting of it, the, you know, the sound design behind it. And just the narrative information we're getting about that as well. Where in a future episode in the season seven episode? We will continue. To see that Valerian steel and drag glass are effective against the white walkers. But you've got to imagine that that's only gonna come into more play as the show. Winds up starts winding down with the final six episodes still to be released. There's also a great moment in the fighting in this happens in battle, the bastards as well where Jon snow either has the wind knocked out of him or is like concussed to some degree. And you know, the sound design sort of like follows that where it's sort of like you're seeing things not necessarily from John's perspective. But in terms of where you know, the sound is gone out a little bit. Because of what's happened to John, and you really are. Was in his shoes. Yeah. One hundred percent. I think that this was because I think the way that the show and the story has been told they've really slow played the the threat of the white walkers. It's the first thing you ever see in game of thrones is a white Walker sequence. So right off the jump. You know that this is a big deal story line. But it's also an endgame story line in most of the story is going to be defined by the political wheeling and dealing all the human frailties that that are littered throughout game of thrones. That's going to be the real meat and potatoes of of this of this story. But this sweet sweet dessert, and we're we're finally getting into the final course of the meal and just along the way they're giving us like little chocolate truffles of white walkers sprinkled throughout the throughout this lavish feast, and this is like the most juicy truffle of them, all and analogy delicious and always tres involved as well. It's just it's a great time. And I'm just I'm I'm so excited for where they're going to go with it. But I think in this moment, especially because we'd been deprived of so much of what it looks like when the white walkers are involved just little little tastes along the way. This is just your biggest white Walker hit yet. And it's it's done so expertly, and does it is grounded in the perspective of essentially, the mean character of the show. So I think that really gets you invested and it helps get you invested to that. We lose these people along the way, I don't think we need to do it the super deep dive into the beat by beat how it all plays. But we Louis car C in a very dramatic moment where she's fought off a lot of these these whites. And then she turns around, and she sees like this group of children, that's such a haunting image those kids. Little shook the I'd be shook to I think I first of all I would have been dead long before this moment, right? I would not have made it to to the spooky kids. I think I would have been a visceral probably outside of hard home. What my bet just to confirm. Those are not her kits. Right. They're not her kits now they're like super decomposed like way way way. Did I just wanted to like, but she's very the fact that she's super son? Maybe they're her nieces and nephews though, I don't think she knew them. But. I wanted to make sure because there is the whole beat about her own kids. And I just wanted to confirm that that was not the case. I think that it's just connecting that and I think it kind of takes her breath away. This is the possible future that awaits her own children. And like she loses her composure in a moment that she really can't afford to lose her control. All right. So John ends up getting picked up by Ed, and he's like we need to get the dragon glass and like John. No, no, forget it. We gotta roll we're gonna die no partner up with somebody not terribly long from now who's going to be able to give them the dragon Guas hookup. So this is not a huge loss. But in the moment, it's not great. Yeah. And so they head to the boats. One one giant is also going to the both, and he's just like taking the whites that are on him and just like throwing them in the water and they're headed back to status fleet. Yeah. That's one one giant the most Horry Hoed or of season five if we're going by thrown her awards, and so they are on their way back to the boat, and John is just looking back and we've seen a couple times in this episode the night king. He is observing what is going on. And he sees John snow, and he's making eye contact with John snow, and he ultimately is going to raise his arms in one of the most iconic images. In game of thrones history. Josh yes, for sure I'm sure that's on the list. Right. It's gotta be. It's got to be on the list. Gotta be on the list. Just the stuff they do at the white walkers. In this episode is so good like not only this moment. But like that I I'm that John looks up and sees white walkers like it's not just whites that are here that are fighting them. It's not just like this army if the dead he sees beyond in the distance all of the different white walkers on their mounts, just like in the in the on the peaks in the horizon, just it's so spooky and then when the Nike Inc shows up, and he just walked so slowly in so confidently you are now finally looking into the eyes of the primary antagonists of game of thrones. Maybe not much of a character. But the face of death and him having that moment of like like you said at me, bro. Of him raising the dead arms outstretched and being like, this is what you're up against. It's a very appropriately. Chilling message to end hard home on and to really set the stakes for what is going to come later down the line on game of thrones. Yeah. And we see everybody rise back up and very terrifying. Image for Jon snow, the guy who's rowing the boat is really chill. Yeah. There's like one guy who's like who's who's in a hood who is rolling faster at this point. Yeah, he's got his back to to the night king things and everything he's just very chill, and he's just like rowing, very slowly. And I was I was impressed by his I don't really realize what was going on. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. All right. Josh, that's hard home. That's hard best episode of season five for sure. Yeah. And one of one of the true greats of game of thrones history. I think yeah. And. Very iconic sequence at the end of the episode as as you outlined best half an hour. Sequence of the show will history decide. Yeah. Let's let's see what what history has to say. I think through through seven seasons. I would say this is still the best half hour of the show. Yeah. All right. Josh anything else from hard home. As now we start to set our sights on season five episode nine. No, I'm very I'm very happy that we got through this episode. I will miss it deeply it was. It was a great pleasure to watch. And we've got to so it's less season five, and then we're getting we're starting to starting to gear up your we're getting close we're getting close to that game of thrones proper is getting as close as we are. I mean here we are just two episodes left in season five then ten episodes in season six and then seven episodes, and then it's time for season eight is that how it's gonna work. It's just going to definitely not. You know, maybe we'd like a couple of strategically placed intermittent breaks. We've got some holidays come two weeks off in between each episode. I think we'd be just about. Seems like did they announce an official date or are we still just looking at a window? No. I'm literally waiting to plan my life based on when game of thrones return. Yes. When game of thrones returns, I'm going to have to lock down like nine weeks of my life, my best guess, honestly, it could be anywhere. It can be anywhere in twenty nineteen. I used to think that it was going to be winter twenty nineteen because how could you resist winter is here in airing it in the in the winter months of game of thrones within their reports from I think one of the visual effects guys. It's like it's not gonna it's not gonna premier until July something when I tell you. Yeah. I winter twenty twenty is not happening. If game of thrones doesn't come back until like, the very end of twenty nine thousand nine that's going to be infuriated not gonna watch it. Then everyone's going to watch it. And I guess at this point take your time HBO, the probably a winner twenty twenty to take your time. And just make sure that it is great. But also could you let me know really love to start making some plans for next year. If got I've got things to do people. See at least is to go. Yes. All right. So Josh wiggle. If you are watching the Walking Dead as closely as we are, then we got a recap for you. Jessica lease was really on fire at talking about episode three of season nine of the Walking Dead as we are on the March to the end of Rick Grimes, potentially. Yes. And Jessica Lisa, and I were messaging very recently about getting back together to do a Walking Dead book. Club special for whatever the event occurs that Rick Grimes is no more. I think she and I are going to get together. And we're gonna talk about that. And what the comic book ramifications of all that are we'll do like a really big spoiler podcast. All right. So beyond the lookout for that. We will be back in our regular time. Slots of talk about a season five episode nine here on the game of thrones or recap. So be on the lookout for that. You could subscribe go to oppose your, recaps dot com slash itunes or post show. Recaps dot com slash GO TI, I tunes for the game of thrones. Only the Josh anything else. Nothing else your honor. All right. Take care. Bye. I.

John Danny Wild Wings Tyrian John snow Josh Jon snow raiders Danny Giora Lancaster Tyrian Lancaster Loboda Sansa Truecar Nike Dan Loboda west rose truecar
Game of Thrones, S8E5 | The Precappables

The Recappables

47:01 min | 2 years ago

Game of Thrones, S8E5 | The Precappables

"Hey, Kelly and welcome to the ring podcast network. The NBA playoffs are in full swing, and we have coverage across all of our channels to keep you up to speed as we make our way towards the finals make sure to check out the ringer NBA show for daily coverage of the games from each series and the ringer dot com to read Kevin O'Connor, Dan Devine and the rest of our NBA experts breakdown every key matchup and don't forget to tune in every Sunday evening to the Bill Simmons podcast to hear Bill and Ryan russillo. NBA reactions from the weekend as always these can be found on apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to game of thrones pre capitals part of the ringer podcast network. This is the podcast where he preview the thrones episodes of come in today. We have a lot to get to as we break down. What to expect in season? Eight episode five the penultimate hour of game of thrones. I'm Zac cram. And joining me like Khyber as a rational, man, it's Riley Makati. Wow. That feels like a real real burn toward me, man. I've loved cavern hibernates would have my favorite characters on the show. Now, he's a freak. So we're changing things up a bit this week instead of offering a theory of the week and keys to the game. The most important characters were answering your questions in a special mailbag episode. Thanks so much because all of you listener submitted a ton of interesting questions and theories. So that's coming up in the second half of the pod. But for now, we're going to start as always by diving into next on game of thrones. So heading into episode five we can assume we have a battle coming between the good guys, and sir. See this episode like the battle of winter fell episode episode three this season is directed by Miguel. Potch Nick, it's gonna be eighty minutes long and good news because you don't have to worry about those TV settings. It looks like from the trailer. It's going to be a battle in the light not the dark, and as we mentioned our previous pod, Miguel Paci Nick said interview at one point that he wanted to direct episodes three four and. Five because he felt that they were one arc and they only had him direct three and five so three was obviously the big ballot. So that's what he specializes in. We think five will also be a battle episode. But Zach what do you think it means that passionate sees this is all one big arc? Yeah. That's really interesting to me. Because like we sort of touched on last week episode three seemed like a culmination of a huge plot thread. So the fact that he saw that the beginning of something that would end now is really interesting, and if I had to glean something from that comment, I think it probably has to do with dinner arc because I mean, you wrote about this after Sunday night. She really had the book ends in episode four. It started with her morning Giora, and it ended with her sort of enraged as misunder was killed. So if you're looking at it an arc as me Gusta posh, Nick said, I think it probably has to do with. Maybe it's Danny finally being pushed over to mad Queen territory or something because she's lost base. All of her advisers who came from the east with her, and I'm not sure what else that quote could be referring to do you have any ideas between Georgia's death in episode three. And then moving into episode four, which was in my mind, totally about the isolation of generis. This is all about setting up. Her heel turn into sort of mad Queen territory. We think in episode five as she becomes more more tempted with fewer and fewer options other than burning king's landing and potentially taking out many innocent lives. So let's break down. What we see in this trailer? Interestingly we have no dialogue some cool music on. But no quotes to go off. So the first image. We see we see Tyrian on what appears to be dragon stone. So we assume they must regroup after the meeting and king's landing at the end of last episode, then we see a bunch of really quick images. We see sir cease looking rather. Please standing in the red keep we see John and Davos interior now. King's landing. So obviously they've arrived after traveling by land we see the harbor with your on. We see the golden company marching it cetera et cetera. What out of these images stands out to you? Well, I think relating to what we just said about the nearest Tyrian as he's kind of walking through dragon stone looks really hesitant and almost low scared and afraid, and it kind of seems like they're already hinting again at this continuation of Tyrians hesitancy toward his alliance with Danny and how he feels about her as Queen. And I think he's seriously considering his own turn where he betrays the mother of dragons that he chose, and I think the conversation that tearing and various had last episode is going to yield some sort of payoff here. Whether it's like, you say Tyrian betraying her Varis who seems intent on betraying her. This wasn't in the trailer. But in some pre episode five photos that were released earlier this week. We saw verse talking with John is various just going to try to appeal to John immediately. There's kind. Tenuous ground there because John doesn't know that Varis knows about his parentage. Remember, he swore sunset and aria to secrecy not to tell anyone else. But then Sansa toll Tyrian Tyrian till Veras. It's a game of telephone at this point. So we'll various just go right in and say, hey, John know, something now in John will just be perplexed about how I think there will certainly be a lot of scheming this episode, and it won't just be the battle. There's a lot of behind the scenes going onto shouts to Danny who told John, hey, if you tell Santa she's going to immediately plot against me, and then John told Santa and Sansa immediately plotted against her. It's great that deniro says a better read on Santa than John does even though they are family. I think if various goes to John and says, hey, I think you should be on the iron throne that would be a huge mistake. And I think John would probably immediately take that deniro's and as near as promised in season seven if various ever plots against her she will kill him. She will she said that you'd Burnham alive and. Various sort of took that in stride and said, well, you know, if you're wrong for the realm. I'll accept whatever consequence that could be something that happens if various were to make that misstep in this episode could be the last episode for various I wonder if we I presume anyway, we will see number of deaths in this episode. I wonder how many of them will occur actually in battle versus in more intimate settings something that malady Aruban noted on binge mode after the battle of winter fell. Is that a lot of the biggest deaths in the series of our haven't come in battles? You know, rob and Joffrey died at weddings Taiwian died on the toilet and so on. So even though we have this big battles to prepare for like, I would bet if search dies for instance, it wouldn't be in the thick of the fighting embarrassed is it wouldn't be in the thick of the fighting. So I think if we get a lot of cutting back and forth between a battle and something else in this episode almost the something else side of it could be more violent than the battle at self battle deaths are probably like grey worm. You're on maybe a Harry Strickland who. Even a character. He's had one line in the series, so far, but guys like that. So let's go to your on and Harry Strickland who you mentioned as a reminder to our listeners who might not remember Harry Strickland is the leader of the golden company who we saw in episode one the season. And basically, he hasn't had a line sense. So we do see the golden company in king's landing this trailer. They see maybe to be a squirting some hooded figure at the back of the regiment. Could this be Jamie? I don't know who else it would be if it's just like a random person, and we're not supposed to get a clue out of it. But you know, there's been some weirdness with travel times over the last couple of season. I think it's pretty safe to say that they don't care about that as much at this point. So of Jamie wants to end up down at king's landing before the fighting begins. There's no reason to say he can't could he make a direct appeal to, sir. See before the fighting even begins and that's what the golden company is doing in the trailer escorting him, perhaps the red keep. Yeah. And I wonder why source would really trust him. You know, they didn't leave on good. Terms, and he just was embedded with all of Surtees enemies. So, you know, sir. She's smart. I wouldn't let Jamie get anywhere near her. What I like about that part of the trailer is before the battle of winter fell. The trailer didn't show anything about the army of the dead. That was all mysterious here, we see definitively the, quote, unquote enemies of Danny, and John and everyone else we see the golden company. We see you're on a couple of times, we see a close up shot of Lancaster troops loading scorpion. I would be pretty surprised after the scorpion. Surprisingly kills Ray less episode. If Danny let's drogue gun dia by the same method. But it's not like she's been the best airborne tactician thus far. So I wonder how she's going to get around that obstacle. Yeah. It looks like it's a little cloudy. I mean at the end of the trailer. So you're on is kind of looking skyward. Interestingly he's not manning the scorpion that he just showed. He's so skilled with like almost unbelievea-. Unrealistically skilled with and he is instead standing front of his guys and looking up, and you can hear presumably drove on 'cause dragons a screech going through. And he looks a little afraid kind of a little shook. And it's interesting to me because it would seem like you would be more confident than ever with so many scorpions on your side. Having just Sean how easy it is to a dragon with those weapons that you should be really really confident in your ability to kill drug on and mitigate this dragon threat instantly. But it looks like they're kind of flipping it and going back to saying. Now, the dragons actually are these huge terror that everyone is scared of maybe Iran's like aquaman, he derives all of his power from the water, and you know, put him a mile inland, and he just can't get anything done. I think the contrast between various facial expressions in this trailer strikes me as pretty fascinating. Because like you said you're on even if he's not scared. He at least looks concerned, whereas certainly just looks perfectly pleased. She's looked that way for a while now because all of her Macintoshes are going to plan, but I would guess that that comes sort of as the battle preparations are beginning. And she might just be surveying to see like her army is bigger than the opponents. She has the defensive fortifications last episode Varis said that the two sides matched up as distressingly even and that was before Ray gall died. So you would think sir she has the upper hand now. Plus, she has, you know, the red keep on her side, whereas Danny would be attacking the defensive walls. Of course, it bears mentioned that we don't see any actual fighting. We just see what looks like a lot of the beginning stuff. And then at one shot with the dragon screeching. I wonder how much of this episode is even in the trailer. Like is all of it in the first ten minutes. I think that's possible. I mean, the the thing with Europeans face looking concerned. It's not like he looks that scared. But it's just when have you ever seen your on not look like completely era that in full themself? So even. Just a little bit kinda hints at a flip in the power dynamics here. Because as we saw last episode Danny has like forty unsullied left that she marched up to the gates. But I don't think that it will be that lopsided because you know, as we suspect. I don't think the neuron will necessarily win an episode five. One thing we notably don't see in. This trailer is anything in the north. We possibly left that region behind at least for now when all of the action move south. This could probably end up like how an episode two in three the season. There was no south, sir. C was gone for two episodes. I'll touch on this in a second. But I'm a little disappointed by that. If it ends up being the case, I wish we still had the entirety of the cast in play here by it's possible that characters like torment, and, you know, poor ghost and Sam could just be gone until you know, the end of episode sex. I don't know what role the have to play here. There could be a surprise. Is. But at least this trailer seems to confirm that possible. I think Sam will definitely come back in some form. Just feel like he's too big of a main character. But I would not be surprised if we literally just saw the last of hormone onscreen, which would be fairly disappointing. So let's move to that next segment where we make actual predictions about the show, and then we'll move onto the mailbag. But as usual each going to offer to predictions for this coming episode one that we think will happen and one that we're not so sure but want to happen. There are only two more of these to go Riley. What do you think we'll have in this episode? So I think that the unnamed prince of Dohrn who is mentioned in the last episode will actually show up in person in this episode. Yes. So Varis as they're making their battle plans out of nowhere says. Oh, yeah. The new prince of door and supports you, Danny. We don't know who that is. But it just feels like such a throwaway line of dialogue. But there might be more to it. So there's a rumor the show cast. Actor named Toby Osmond before the season, and a casting website called it, quote, a great Royal role in the next and final series of an epoch network fancy saga airing in spring of twenty nineteen that doesn't that sound familiar? If you look this guy up he just looks like he's Dornoch. I don't really know how to describe that he's kind of like a Mediterranean looking guy definitely could play a prince of Dohrn type character, and it just feels like making that various line a throwaway line doesn't necessarily track for me because why bring it up at all. We've gone oh like a whole season almost without Dorn being mentioned. They don't need to be brought back into the fold the show clearly has no problem with writing out whole region. Snot like, we learned whose ruling in the reach or whose ruling in like the western lands or wherever so bring it up makes me think that that character might actually play a role, and we have this actor who you believe was cast. And so I could see. Him coming into the fold. If he does I think it has to be this episode. It'd be weird to bring him in for the final episode. I wonder what his name would be if they bring him in because they didn't offer it last episode. We've really only been introduced to one house indoor and the Martellus and base seem to be radical characters like Quinton and Arjan who appear in the books haven't come in the show. He could be a Dane, we know, sir. Arthur Dane from the tower of joy flashback, and that is an established during his house. They could bring in something like the drink water. But I would guess if he appears he might bear the name Dane, just because you're 's are at least somewhat familiar with that already. Yeah. I wonder if he could be darkstar like, you know, the show's version of darkstar something of me, some darkstar. Yeah. It'd be it'd be great. But he also could be just a show only creation as the prince adorn, and they just give him some whatever name. So the thing I think will happen is maybe the most ambitious prediction I've offered. In the section so far. But I really think that all three Lancaster siblings will die in this episode. I think certainty is the villain. I could see her making it out of the season alive. But it's more likely. I think that she dies, and that would probably happen in this episode Tyrian see we've been joking about John having a death wish for a couple of seasons. Now, how many times has Tyrian place himself next to the mountain place themselves in the line of fire and to do it. He almost has a death wish himself and he's been wrong. So many times lately I could see that finally catching up to him. Maybe he's the one who betrays Danny and gets caught for it and gets roasted, and then with Jamie, I think the fact that he left Brian so brusquely the fact that he's going back to this work zone after having that, oh, I'm just going to stay up here. And be with the person I love and be safe moment puts them on the wrong track. I am not convinced that as he told Brian is going back to save Serfaty. I'd. Don't know if that's true, or if it's misdirection, but either way I think returning to battle after surviving against all odds. The battle winter fell puts them in harm's way. I think it's wild that Tyrian shortly after learning from Braun that sir c wants him killed with a crossbow willingly stepped into the line of fire of a bunch of scorpions and archers. And then sir Syed just didn't kill him. Very bizarre. I think that you're right about all three Lancasters dying. I don't know if it'll be this episode though, I could see especially with Tyrian if he does betray deniro's and gets caught for doing. So that feels like something to me that would be resolved in the final episode not in this one. But I do think you're onto something here. I don't think the Lancasters are long for the world part of this prediction is also as we talked about before the battle winter fell in George. Martin's initial outline for the story back in nineteen Ninety-three. He listed five characters who were. Going to survive through the whole story until the end those five characters were John Darris brand all three of whom I think are safe in this episode than aria who will talk about in a bit. I'm not sure where her leaves her now that she's killed the night king, and the fifth one is tier in the battle of winter fil didn't kill any of those five characters if this battle is going to surprise us by doing. So I think tearing is the most likely Riley. What do you want to happen? I would like for your on to die in this episode. I wrote a piece on him this week where I called him the plot device pirate. He has typically been used to quickly level the playing field between sir c and deniro. He's done this multiple times throughout season seven and season. Eight and there's just hasn't been a lot of thought given to the logistics of his attacks. He just comes out of nowhere. Ambushes them kills Ray goal and then sails away, and I'm just done with it done with him. And I'm ready for him to go. He's not particularly interesting to me is kind of. I got Salvador San's motivations just pasted onto him. You know, he wants to sleep with the Queen a hand ruled west coast, but not as king just alongside of certainty, and I find it boring and played out. And if they're going to bring a character back in this episode, I hope it comes in. And we get a another great joy to kill him. But really anyone anyone just find a way to put across Bo both through his heart. And I'll be happy. What I want to happen is what I referenced earlier. I don't want to spend all eighty minutes in the south. I understand why they did this with the north and episodes to three because certainty is really the only complex character in the south at this point. She has urine by her side. And she has Harry Strickland by your side, and she has the mountain by her side. But none of them really fit the Bill. But in this case, even though the center of the action is in the south the characters you're leaving behind aren't the mountain, and Harry Strickland McCain's leaving behind our Sansa and brand and Sam all of whom we. Soom sloven portent roles to play. And I don't wanna get those movement shunted entirely to episode six because that's going to be an episode chock full of character movement. Anyway, I think they need to start with that this episode. I think brand I'm not sure what his role is going forward. But I would be shocked Johnson has no time at all. She has been positioned as one of the power players truly one of the only masterminds left. And if she's just absent for entire upset in the final season. I'd find that stunning. Plus, it's nice while other characters are making silly plans to have a bit of competence onscreen. So it's not like everyone is being foolish. It's a pretty low bar to clear, but Sansa being like, hey army's just fought the battle of winter fell. They fought the army of the dead. Maybe give them data rest before immediately merchant south to take on another fo- like that seemed fairly refreshingly smart, and nobody listened to her. But I don't wanna see everyone just making mistakes again without her influence to. At least try to right the ship. She can be a bit of a schemer. But just the fact that she's the only person thinking about like, how do we feed all of these people instantly makes her probably the smartest person left at this point. So let's move onto the key segment today, which is our mailbag. We got a ton of great questions on Twitter and via Email, and we're going to try to answer as many as we can now some of them focus on character, some of them focused on bigger picture elements. So let's dive in the first question is about aria. This is from Nell diesel who asks who's face will already aware. And we also got a question from Oscar saying does Arias have something significant left to do in the series seems like killing both the night. King answer C would be giving too much weight to one character. What do you think Riley? I mean toward I don't think that she'll wear a face again. I do think she'll have something interesting to too insignificant to do in the series going forward because she's aria she's one of the five characters that we just. Highlighted as being part of Georgia. Martin's original script. I don't think that you'll kill, sir. I think that would be too much to give her and it feels like that is more appropriate for Jamie or even Tyrian, but I could see her possibly killing the mountain. You know, everyone is ready for a game bowl to happen. But we kind of forget that the mountain is also name on Arias list. Perhaps gamble does happen. But instead of the hound winning the mountain wins, and then aria gets revenging. She kills the mountain which become a great, you know, tiny aria killing the mountain. I love it. I'm kind of split about this question because on the one hand not returning to the RS stealing faces plot would fit with the show's seeming move away from fantasy elements. It's fitting that of all the skills. She learned in her vacation and Bravo's she has used the fighting skills. Very recently. She killed the night king with them, but those are more grounded. And the more fantastical elements stealing faces the magic she hasn't used it season eight it's notable that since leaving Bravo's. She's used another face to kill the phrase, but she hasn't used it since then and that was at the end of season six and then the first scene of season seven that was a long time ago. And remember she was carrying faces with her at winter fell Sansa saw them when she was going through Arias things, and she was kind of horrified by them. I would hope that there's a reason aria is still carrying them not just a characteristic, but a narrative reason to it could be how she blends herself with like the aria, and then no one persona how she blends them together. But I'm not sure whose face would make sense for her to steal at this point because she hasn't been in kings landings and season one. So it's not like she would have the face of any character, sir. She would trust. There's been some theories that may be Jamie dies an aria steals his face. And then kill certainly thereby fulfilling multiple branches of the Vallon car prophecy. I. Don't really believe that just because it seems a little too fantastical for the direction the show is going. So I think it's an a tricky place right now like you I would lean toward aria won't wear a face, and that's kind of disappointed. There's also the issue of her face wearing magic is a little just overpowered. You know, if she does get the right face of somebody that serves he trusts, and it doesn't have to be Khyber owner Jamie could be just like a serving girl or something she can just walk into king's landing and kill Searcy, and that's not satisfying. It doesn't make for good television or good storytelling. And so they have to find a way to kind of Nerf that overpowered ability. And I think the way they do it is they just ignore it. And they focus on her other assassin training and not necessarily the faceless. Magic the shirt honors. Probably also if our aid does something really cool what busy Williams to be that actress doing it? Yes. Like, there's a reason that in the Harry Potter movies the characters use policies potion a lot less than they do in the books. It's because the move. Makers wanted Daniel Radcliffe on screen, and I think the same philosophy could apply here. All right. What's the next question? Ethan asks will Dario owner Horace make a comeback. I don't think. So I know you've been rooting for Dario all season. I don't know, man. I've been rooting for it. But it's it feels unlikely at this point. I think when they were seriously down on troops after the battle of winter fell. That would have been the time to call for him. If not before the battle of winter fell maybe you need more people to fight the night king that would have been helpful at this point. I think it's over for Dario. We were concerned about how they were possibly going to match up after their forces were seemingly decimated in the battle of winter foul, then they had the work council meeting last episode, and they said, oh, yeah. Half the unsullied survived. We still have a bunch of death. Rocky left and sure that's a big cut to their numbers. But I watched that episode. There were not half of the insulted still standing there were not doth rock is left. So I think that precluded the possibility grey worm cut off the unsullied, and it seemed like. They all sacrifice themselves. And then suddenly they're just back a bunch of them lived. So I don't know what happened I hoped Arias enjoying marine next. We have a question from Jason who asks what's next for Sam technically, the night's watch is no longer needed. So can he return home to head up the family? Yeah. I mean, I think that it would make sense for him to go to horn hill and go somewhere safe for Gillian his family feel like Sam will be one of the few characters that comes out of this season. Having a good ending. I also love the theory of him being the one who writes a song of ice and fire in the universe after that was kind of hinted when he was at the citadel little bit. You know, where he was telling the Maistre that you need more poetic title than this war, the five kings, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah title at the guy had for the book he was writing. So I think that it makes logical sense for Sam to go at least south somewhere citadel horn hill. I don't know why he would stay up in the north and stick around with the night's watch or anywhere there. I. I think that's what's next for Sam. And it seems like they're building a family together in so few characters on the show have had the chance to do that. I'm glad that John draft him into another word again, and is going to let him enjoy that side of his life after so long with that not even being an option for them. The next question is from Marie she asks the previous season foreshadowed, Danny being pregnant is that just not going to come to fruition. At this point. I really thought that would come up in this season. I thought John and Danny were going to if not have it child at least she would become pregnant with one and that would further complicate their relationship. Now, I'm not so sure in part because we have surfaced pregnancy. We have Gillies pregnancy. That's already a couple going on. And that would be a third to add at this point. Furthermore, it's now been for episodes, and it's unclear how much time has passed. But if searches aware that she's pregnant, and Danny would presumably be. Aware that she's pregnant if the conceptions both occurred around the same time and Furthermore, the line from the books that convinces Danny that she can't get pregnant is from Mary Masdar all the way back when she's married to drug. Oh, Mary Masdar tells her in the course of a prophecy that she's not going to be pregnant, and then that specifically reverses course at the end of the fifth book that doesn't really happen in the show that line for merest prophecy is cut out in season one and the specific moment that readers from the books realized that Danny could now have a kid happens when she's wandering with drogue on in the death. Rocky see after escaping me rain that moment happened three seasons ago at this point and nothing happened to make viewers think that she can get pregnant now, I don't know where that foreshadowing goes from last season. Maybe it was just a red herring. I was never that big of a buyer in the theory that Danny can get pregnant in his just wrong about that. Kind of felt like it was a little reaching for me. And I think at this point if they are building to a potential, Danny John schism, then I think having Danny be pregnant would make that so much more complicated and hard to pull off it makes a lot more sense. If John's going to ever turn on Danny at any point, if she's not also carrying his child if she were pregnant, I think that would be a bridge too far. So if that's what they're building to in order to make it believable. I just think she can't be pregnant, and in fairness, they have seemed to change course with a few other seasons. Seven subtleties like teary-eyed really seemed to be in love with Danny when he looked on with what appeared to be jealousy on that boat that hasn't really manifested at all in season eight so perhaps this is just another example of that next. Question comes from Colin who asks simply what is up to he scheming. Well, as we said, we have the the set photo of verison John walking on a beach. Likely on dragon stone talking together. And I think it's pretty clear various made it pretty clear himself last week. He wants to install John thrown. He thinks John is more natural leader that people follow him more. And that he's less inclined toward Tarango's sort of actions. The way that deniro's has this mad Queen stuff going on. So, you know, I think various were being ideologically consistent. He would realize that the small folk the realm of west rose really doesn't care who sits on the iron throne. And the probably the best thing actually is for certainty to just keep the throne and not have any war that wars actually the worst part for the small folk in the common people of west rose that even if a bad person sits on the throne a bad person during peace is far better than a good person that takes a war to get there. But you know, I think what various is thinking right now is all about John's snow leave, sir. See on the iron throne and better for the people of west rose, by Riley, Makati you heard it here. First I'll I will stand by. I think that it doesn't matter. If the leader is good or bad as long as there is peace. That's the number one thing we did have that quote from Giora all the way back and she's in one when Danny tells him like, oh, Sarah said people root for the restoration of the triggering dynasty. And he says people pray for rain for their crops and health and cheering echoes that. This last episode saying the millions of people in west rose who are subject to the iron throne. Don't really care who sits the chair. And VERA says yes, they do it. It will matter to them the way they framed that scene made it seem like the message was various, right? I wrote about this on the site this week if you want to read more about this. I'm really interested to see how that specific plotline gets resolved. Because I think it will say a lot about the ultimate message of the show and the ultimate lessons that wants to teach about power and governance and the importance of sovereignty over a group of people I like the various seems to be one of the few characters that has a moral backbone or at least. Thinking about common people and suffering and struggle in power. But I just don't know if he's necessarily really thought it all through and understands that doesn't actually matter. What games the high lords play? Just as Giora says really doesn't matter. What matters is whether it's summer winter and whether the realms at war or not let's move onto the next question. Michael asks shouldn't you're on. No, the baby isn't his house. Would he think Tyrian knew about it, sir? She reveals to your on last episode that she's going to have a child and that attests Khyber and confirms this. But then in the summit Tyrian shouts up to the ramparts. I know you're pregnant so the question is how interior no if sir she had just found out. I think there's a distinction between characters making mistakes and the show making mistakes just because a character either doesn't realize something or make a bad plan. Doesn't mean that's a problem with the show like this is semi related. Jon snow conceiving poor defense of winter fell kind of. Fits with his character where he has an acted poor battle plans before so complaints about John's battle strategy. I think are separate here though. It's kind of strange like you could argue, and maybe I would that you're on let his niece and nephew escape after being named ruler. The iron islands. He didn't have anyone guard them even though he wanted them dead. You're on let theon rescue Yara while he was off fornicated with certainty. He's not the sturdiest boat in the sea. So maybe he just didn't put two and two together in that moment. I'm not sure, but it kind of resonated a little oddly and doesn't totally fit in with that character. His skills at sneaking his ships up on people and shooting the scorpion are unrivaled. He's the best ever both of those things. But his skills at connecting obvious dots and protecting his hostages are seemingly terrible he might be kind of an idiot, which would honestly fit with his character, and his whole persona and everything I was surpr-. Surprised that they didn't have a moment where you're on kind of looks around and wonders how Tyrian knows is pregnant. But I also think that you're on insists he probably both die this episode. So it will end up mattering. Yeah. Like Cherian said if various people die than all the problems are solved. Let's move onto Nicole who writes about gain bowl. She thinks. There's a twist the mountain is a white and sand or has to defeat him with fire seems like that could tie in well with their back story and make more sense with the current plot progression. I note here that the mountain it seems isn't a white white seems to be the term reserve for creations of the night king. The mountain was reanimated by Khyber. And who knows what kind of mad science. He got up to. I think it's important to note that Benjamin who is not a white. But was renovated didn't die by fire. Barrick who is resurrected didn't die by fire. John snow is resurrected and he hasn't died again. But I think he's probably mortal and. Wouldn't necessitate fire to kill him. So I don't think it would be necessary for the hound to use fire to kill gain. But it would probably fit with his art because the mountain was the one who inspired his fear of fire in the first place. Yeah, I like the idea of that coming full circle. But I also feel like the hound already had his fire moment during the battle of winter fell when you know, he kind of started to tuck tail and run, and then he sees the Arias endanger. And he overcomes his fear and goes to save her. So if feels like they've already played that card a little bit in that it wouldn't really resonate as much second time. Let's move on the next question is from Jack. And he asks how do you see brand in Santa fitting into the finale, we're gonna talk about Santa a little in a second. So let's focus on brand. What does he do? Now. I hope something anything, please. My prediction last week was that we wouldn't learn any more about brands powers, and we didn't the only thing he did was converse with Tyrian for a bit about how he shouldn't. To be envied that his life is actually really not much of a life at all because of his transformation into the thread, raven. The only thing I can think of here is to remember that an episode to Tyrian brands start to talk, and then it cuts away from that scene. I wonder if anything was revealed in that moment that could help propel things in the end game. It just makes their conversation episode four though, so confusing in that it it, you know, brand tells cheering about his wheelchair and tells them how he lives in the past. And it feels like that was stuff that you would have covered in their first conversation before the battle winter fell like almost as if they had hardly talked all when they're talking at the feast, I have no idea what brand does at this point used the character for me. That is the hardest figure out going forward. I really do not have any clue where he fits into the story now than I king has gone. I just hope we get an explanation for some of that. Are he in the night king kind of a yin Yang thing? I'm not sure. Hopefully, we'll find. Out next question is when I really like from Brian who asks not just about this upcoming episode. But about the two remaining he says who will be the last character to die on screen. I had an immediate answer. I know it took you a little longer to come up with one. Yeah. So I you know, I feel like during this pod. I've actually talked myself into the idea that it could be Tyrian that he is the last person ultimate person to betray deniro's and that in doing so he will end up earning himself, some sort of execution. And so I think as a fan favourite character his death being last one would make a lot of sense to me. My immediate response was dinners. The mad Queen stuff has really been building up and accelerating and George are Martin has described his anticipated ending for the show as bittersweet that was the word he used, and we know that a few years ago. Benny often wife's the show runners met with George Martin and got a rough outline. For the ending of the show. We don't know how much of that. They've used thus far this season. How much still remains? But the belief is that at least the very ending will comport with George. Martin's ideas, and it's hard to think of a more bittersweet ending than perhaps John having to kill Danny to save the kingdom when she says relatives, she is his love. She has been built up as one of the two main heroes since episode one of season one. So I think Danny is going to be the last character today onscreen that would make a ton of sense to me too. I really don't feel confident in saying any character will be the last one because I don't feel I know where it's going yet next question is from Ryan he asks there's been two visions in the series of the throne room in ruins and covered in snow. Is there a connection an interesting thing about this is I think we both assumed these visions of the throne room being covered in snow meant the night king getting. Akin's lending, or at least winter or Jon snow. That's a good point. We saw these visions twice first with Danny in the house. The undying all the way back in season two and Cardiff. We also saw this in one of brands rapid fire series of visions, and the idea is I that the red keep will end up in ruins. I think that's probably going to end up happening because Danny still has one dragon. And she seems were and more intent on destroying that property. But the second implication that winter would arrive that I thought maybe won't happen anymore. We don't know the relationship between winter and the night. King certainly doesn't seem like winter is in king's landing in last episode or the scenes for this next one even though in season seven we saw snow start to fall in king's landing. I'm not sure what the relationship is there. So I could see half of that vision being fulfilled now, but not the second half. If that makes sense are we in one hundred percent agreement. That it is snow in the throne room and not ask because I know that some people do think that when you wash that seeing that it's ass. I think it snow, but I wonder you think I thought it was no to if it's ashed do you think that just fits with the dragon roasting theory? It could be. Yeah. It could be that, you know in roasting. King's landing deniro's destroys the thing that she's trying to get in the process, which would be pretty poetic. But when I watched that scene, I can see the way that the snow or Ashqelon clings to her hair. And it just looks like snow. I'm completely convinced that it's snow at this point without the night king. And with winter seemingly not really shown up in force. I kinda think it refers to John Br elated to this question. There's one other vision from brand that we have yet to see in the show, and there is a a quick shot that he sees of the shadow of a dragon flying over king's landing. Now, this could have been wind in heiress flew to the dragon pit a season though. We didn't see that exact. Shot the shadow personally. I think we'll get that shot in this episode when she uses drogue on in this battle. We'll get that exact shot pasted into here. And so will bring everything together. I hope when that happens we get to see how the various folks inside king's landing will react. I really liked that shot of the winter fell citizens reacting at the start of the season. So I hope we see that. Because in winter felt the dragon was coming to help out here. The dragon would becoming for war next question is from Kyle. Who asks who is your prediction to sit on the iron throne at the start of the season. And who do you think it is now? So I would have said Santa at the start of the season. I was just completely convinced that they were positioning her as the smartest person in the show. She's the best masterminds she's learned from political maneuvers in being in king's landing for so long. You know, she's adopted a lot from sir, she adopted live from little finger isn't nearly as crueler vindictive or just flat out evil as either of them. And so I think that she is the most competent obvious. Person to take the throne. And I still think that I still think it'll be sauna if it's not independent kingdoms. Or no thrown at all which I could also see Zach. No, you adopt. That theory. I thought nobody would end up at the throne before the season. I still think so partly because of that vision, I think the iron throne is going to be destroyed the central object of so many characters motivations for eight seasons. I think will be destroyed before the end, and it'll go to some sort of independent kingdom kind of thing. If I had to pick someone I agree that I would pick Sansa I think Danny probably is going to die and John would be too obvious choice. But I think she's probably content just leading the north right now that's the largest region in the country. Anyway, so she'd still have plenty of influence and then Genry will rule. The storm lands and this random new Princeton Dohrn with Lee down there. Sam in the reach potentially. We'd go back to almost like a pre a gone the conqueror method of rule last. So this is sort of the elephant in the room. We've kind of been hinting at all podcast Camilla Aaron Evan and a bunch of people as some version of this question, which is what does the show need to do to stick the landing. How can the final two episodes be satisfying? When so much of this season has not really been that satisfying. So to that concern, I'd I offer a note of caution which is that as critical as folks have been about the last two seasons, myself, certainly included. It's not like writing the ending is an easy task. Remember, George Martin hasn't published a new book in eight years because after so much expansion of the world that tightening of the story. That's so rich in detail can't be easy and not all parts of the last two seasons have been poor. I actually liked last week's episode a great deal because even accounting for some wooden plot mechanics. I thought the character moments crackled and the intimate conversations felt true to the world. We've gotten to know over the last decade the same was true of episode two this year. So I think in the end the care that goes into the smaller moments needs to apply to the bigger picture aspects of the show to the the answer to why did this thing happen. Can't be just because the plot said so I wrote about this before the season action should dictate consequences. Not the other way around. And I'm sure we'll get more great character moments either this week or next after the last word is done. The show's not going to end with the battle. There will be at least a bit of fallout, but don't skimp on the bird's eye view stuff. Either don't just play someone on the throne and cut to the credits. I think for the show to succeed at the end in needs to add back in the layers of nuance in the shades of gray that have elevated sincere one and really since George Dr Martin wrote detail for the first time a decade, plus before I almost like want a lot of the predictions. We've made to be wrong, but not just for the sake of shocking surprise, like the show runners have seemed to veer toward recently. I want that to happen because the developments make sense both. In the world of the story. And in a Medway for what the message is what the story means at larch bring up episode two in the characters and that for me is thing at this point. I am just resigned to believing that the plot really will make sense. It hasn't made sense. They've cut too many corners too, many shortcuts too much, you're on just showing up to rake all things of that nature. And I kind of think that we'll get similar plot problems as we head into these file to episodes. But I hope that the show can still find a way to do. Right by the characters. That's really what for me is at the heart of this story and will be what makes or breaks these final two episodes for me. I want the show to give these characters conclusions that compellingly wrap up their arcs are true to the characters. We've come to know over the last eight seasons. Some of those arcs are clearly building toward tragic ends we've talked about cheering. We've talked about the nearest talked about a lot of characters who you know, may not have a happy ending. That's fine. That can happen in still be totally satisfying. I'm not talking about just fan service. You know, it doesn't have to be everybody singing and dancing chanting kun-bae as we head into the sunset here. In fact, that would probably not be satisfying. But as you brought up too, I feel like that was the high point of the season for me. It was so right by the characters with such a love letter to the characters and such a beautiful way. And if we get something like that in episode six that really hammers home who these people are that we've come to know and love for so many seasons than I think that that will be satisfying for me, at least in one of the ways and for one of the reasons that I love thrown so much and who knows like season five was the consensus worst season until seven and eight and toward the end of season five they pulled off part home, which is my favorite episode. So there's still a reason for optimization as we enter the last two episodes. We'll talk about that a lot next week. But for now, that's it for us as always don't forget to rate us five stars where? Get your podcasts and be sure to read all of our in covers this week. Riley wrote about what the problems with your aunts character reveal about the show at large, and I talked about the unaddressed issue of postwar, governance, of course, tune into talk the throne with Jason and Chris live on Twitter every Sunday night. After the episode airs for Mortensen analysis, we'll be back next week to preview the last ever game of thrones episode until then enjoy number five and watch out for stray scorpion. Bolts that might catch you and your dragon on aware. He's seeking scorpion boats.

Danny John Tyrian Tyrian deniro king Riley Jamie Sam George Dr Martin Tyrian Sansa Ray gall Santa Georgia Harry Strickland NBA Jon snow Varis Zach Twitter
The #ThronesYall Recap Show - Episode 6

Black Girl Nerds

1:13:04 hr | 2 years ago

The #ThronesYall Recap Show - Episode 6

"You are listening to the black girl nerds podcast. The following contains spoilers for the series. Finale episode of game of thrones. Welcome to this edition of the thrones. Y'all podcast. This is episode six. And this is our final episode of the thrones. Y'all podcasts a little bitter sweet tonight, but we are excited, and maybe not as excited, depending on who you talk to about last night's finale series finale of game of thrones. It is divided in all different kinds of ways from people that are absolutely just furious at what happened to people that are actually satisfied with the ending. And then there's people that just don't care. So we're going to break it down talk about it. My name is Jamie. I'm your host our moderator and Jelica is here to break down the details of this episode and we have back with us, Ryan and Alex, so thank you guys for coming back. Oh, you must providence again. All right. Let's get into it. All right. So first things. First, I'm just going to ask everyone their initial thoughts of this episode without getting into detail. So who wants to start? Argo. Okay. So basically, I wanna contact HBO I want my money back for the last two months. I see no reason why I paid for my subscription at all. And I'm just gonna leave it a definite we'll dig in deeper as we go on. Really nice. Hold on subscription. I hold on scripture ask I'm still in a middle though. Like last episode. I'm in the middle with this one. Also, by the way, I don't know if you has her, but there is a game you can get yourself a game of thrones counselor on if you guys heard about that. Mark dot com. So, you know, just in case, you know, Alex, I felt your you justification Iwo by how you're done. I just love the hustle that people are doing right now. Like the fact that put that out there, I was like come on series, are pre sheet the hustle. Well, I'm definitely not canceling my HBO subscription as long as insecure is on the. You know, like as long as insecure is on there. I'm good. I, I am not as furious as many fans are I will say, I am sorely disappointed. So I had some expectations and those experts were not met and because of that I was I was more disappointed than anything else. So that's what I came away with. Okay. Fair point me. I was initially disappointed. And then upon rewatch ING and just kinda contemplating and brooding Allah Jon snow style. I've come to realize -ation that this is the best outcome. We could ask for as far as a happy ending. And I'm just going to be grateful that are fan favorites are still alive and well and we'll just leave it at that. So. Some. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I would call you something right now. But we're trying to keep it PG thirteen. So let's get into that. Skin turn on here. So, yeah, my emiss- over our our of this episode is who will sit on the iron throne. And my answer is no one like in at least keys voice. No one is on the iron throne. The person that was elected essentially to be king of the now. Six kingdoms has been sitting all along. So. Just face somebody on Twitter. It's so wrong to even repeat this. But somebody on Twitter sled man, I can't stand him. And then somebody replied will he can't stand. One of the lives in one of my live tweets, it was, like, when I was declared him king. And then people were just. Oh, that comment. Section was rough. I had to stay out of it. Yeah. Like one of the not my king was trending on Twitter last night. Mysterious got real black Twitter ill. Get ya. Let's get into it. So so we start off. We open up with Tyrian serving the destruction of king's landing, I'm so he's walking the streets. John is following behind him. They all look, absolutely horrify like it's, it's complete like it's an apocalyptic like hell of a really describe. It is very reminiscent of the bombings of hero. Shema Nagasaki like all those pictures you saw in the textbooks. You see these people want ring with these terrible burns across their body, bodies littering. The streets is just it's not a good. Look for Danny at all. So they eventually go separate ways Tyrian. I didn't I didn't really think of this at first, but Tyrians actually looking for a siblings, see if they got out so he goes alone. And then John also goes off wherever he's going. So we actually see John ends up. It looks like he's looking for damning, but he ends up coming across gray room, executing Lancaster soldiers that were loyal to survey. I'm sorry. John actually, walks into a runs into grey worm, who is executing Lancaster soldiers that were loyal to survey per Danny's orders. And so, John, like, pulls up. It was like, hey, like the war is you don't need to do this. And I just love gray warms face, like he was giving me Turner, light, excuse me. You tell me to do what? This is my study, I run stuff around here. So it looks like they're all about the standoff against each other, sir. Davos kind of tells them the chill out calm down. These men are already surrendered their literally on their knees. Widening to be killed let's show them some earthy, but the nannies are Janis Canaries new world. There's no quarter. There's no mercy for anyone that serves Thursday. So they are executed despite John's wishes this is one of those things where I think they take the terminal term, our writer DAI a little too ARD. He really did not have to go through all of that understand. He was hurt about Sunday's death and everything else. But this right here, whole 'nother level, like he lost it personally at this point in time grey worm in, Danny. I like eight. I get. I don't know. I kinda understand why gray warm is this way, first of all, he's a member of the unsullied in. That's what they do. They serve their Queen till the death and as far as, like grain worm is concerned because he's a little bit more of a nuanced character. Right from the unsullied like, we don't know anything about these guys unless only through grey worm, we know who who what kind of character that they have. And I think green worm just didn't really have anything to lose at this point. He's lost everything. And you know, I can understand why he wants to go down this path. And, and there's, there's no feeling of any sort of remorse or anything like he's every his all is gone basically, so I can understand why he's that way. And I'm not mad at him for that from. Yeah. Agreed. He's, he's following orders. That's what they do. And he basically just literally goes back to be an unsullied by just kills. So I'm not mad at it at hall. So we end up going to an I just want to mention this. So there's a lot of parallels between Danny's sacking of king's landing verses a Taiwan second of king's landing at Robert's rebellion. The big difference here is that Robert was actually gave mercy to a are not air. Eight Aries Aries census follower. Barest and sell me, who was a Lord commander of the king guard, he actually fought for the wrong side, but because he was such an honorable such a great soldier. Robber decided to forgive him and actually took an into his service. Danny's, not going with that approach. She's annihilating anyone that had any to thing to do with survey. She's basically killing everybody in starting over a century in king's landing. So just thought I'd point that out there, his she is basically as much as she hated Robert humanit been the best king, but he was to a degree very merciful or at least smart about it appearing merciful. So we actually go to Tyrian. He's back underneath the red. Keep he notices now he's tall enough to get through all that. Rubble on like his siblings. So he gets to the rubble to the other side of where Jamie, and sir. Stay were trapped he spots Jamie's golden hands. You see obviously visibly upset he starts actually taking the bricks off to see their bodies and the first face. We see you surveys, and that's when he actually starts to cry. And I'm not sure if it's because he knows that Jamie was with her or if because he really does. He's really grieving for a sister. I mean seriously was Nevil person, but I do think deep down, Jamie, still loved her starts taking off more bricks. We see Jamie, and sir stay together, and it, it kind of reminds me of, of twins in the womb of twins in utero. They were kind of in that same position, except in this in, you know, so Tyrian obviously is very very close as. Further he weeps for him. He starts bashing the bricks around he clearly, if he didn't have an issue with Danny. He has it now. That scene was actually really deep for me. I did appreciate how they carry that scene out. So, you know that bestowed before, you know, when they're down there in the brick, softball type of may dials like that's really how they went out, I expected a lot more. But when he followed up this episode like I said, definitely appreciate it. Metronet about I'm sorry, Ryan. Now that you mention it about sir c Chamie bag twins and they're womb, Arner mother's womb. That's interesting. That's pretty poetic. That, that's how they died. They died as they were born into the world. So I didn't even really get that picture in my head until now. And it makes me kind of appreciate that a little bit more. 'cause I'm, I'm still a little bit salty about sir. Not not getting a proper homicide. Yeah, that's good. Good looking out on that say. Yeah, it was deep. What, what were you saying? Ryan. Yeah. I was just going to echo what you guys are saying that, because that kind of made me care more about sourcing Jamie just to kind of see him break down, and it kinda gives you a new angle. 'cause you're kinda like okay their stories rap. We're moving on, especially, so see, like Jane was saying about, like different homicide kind of thing about her. But it just something in that moment makes you a little bit differently when you just see him like overtop crying, like his, his brother and sister, gone. Yeah. Yeah. Humanize them a little bit more. And now everyone could shut up about them being alive. It was clear as day he nobody surviving that. So that leads us to Danny, and I must say, Debbie had Ed amazing entrance like, I'll just like, yes. Choline. I loved it when joke on like dropped her off, essentially, as she walked for them. He he takes off, and he spreads his wings. She was like being framed, like a dark angel. So I was loving this photography there. That was a beautiful shot so props to that team, but her grand entrance, even though it started off looking really nice it kinda was giving me like Nazi like very. In like very turn. Danny up on this one. I was like, come on, now, you're like I almost hear like the Sieff, Lord music done. Dumb dumb. It was it was bad. They're really playing that imagery, like she even had her banner hanging on the side of the like the broken building. So it was very much like world. Domination, she didn't help at all with her speech. She basically quoted drogue on over again. She said thank you know, she told the Dauth rocky you killed the men in the iron suits. And you brought down there stone houses, then she tells the they will liberate the world from tyrants, at don't think she was talking about ourselves. And she makes she makes grey worm the master of war. So it's not a speech of peace and prosperity. It's literally, we are going to rule the world from darn two cars from the north to the south like she sounded very fascist e. It was it was not a I mean it almost seemed like she could've just made into a victory speech, but she basically said like we're not done and to displeasure of John watching of our you're watching of Tyrian watching it just was very heavy handed, so Tyrian kind of sneaks up on, Danny. He confronts her Danny confronts him for free and Jamie, and committing treason and Tyrians, like, okay. And, and you basically killed an entire city. Innocent children with that. He kinda takes off his badge, the badge of the hand of the Queen, and he throws it, and then he's like, all right. Whatever take them away. So he's arrested for treason, and they walk away. You even see, like the second. He did that Danny had that little evil or math twitching her lip the second cheer, it hit the ground. That was. You can see the hate in her eyes after that. Yes. Danny don't play. So you see John kind of looking at her. She looks at John. They're clearly not in a good place. She walks away, on with the rest of her guard and Tyrian. And then once again, our sneaks up on somebody like you see, like the it's like, Frayne where you just see John's facing the camera pulls back. You see Arias standing there, and she was not anywhere near them. Don't even know how she did that. But who's John just like, hey, why are you here? And she explains, like she was going to kill her say, but Danny beater to it and she basically reinforces what everyone's been telling John, she tells them that he is the rightful heir to the throne, and that he will always be threat to Danny, and she knows a killer when she sees one. So, John is kind of left to contemplate what to do about Danny. Any thoughts that that's, that's when things got real? When our it said that statement, I was just like okay, she's Danny's not going to be around longer. You know, it's either an obviously, the for shadowing was very heavy in John's direction. But I was thinking that maybe aria would be the one to take her out after that statement. But yeah, it things got really real when she said that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like any of this. I was like, yeah. 'cause she it was basically like our set up like everybody against her pretty much and you just got, like pretty much got John doing his usual, John thing, where he's like teetering bone sides. But everybody else she pretty much knew I was like that. This is not good because it was just out to me, it was even though she actually did with the with the fire. Enter the it made to me kind of felt like a set up a little bit where it was like we need to make sure everything points to hey, she's in his dictator this dictatorship right now. She's about to kill him. Or is saying to me? Yeah. Yeah, the ministry them injury. There was it was so heavy handed, you know what they were trying to get to. And I'm of like why was speaking on last week where I was like Hannah still team, Danny, I thought, maybe after this that she kinda calmed down a little bit. She just kind of poured it on. Enjoy the last week, you broke it down her history of how he how it was justified. Why she was the way she was. So why would she change all of this overnight? So, yeah. I mean, she knows around fate, the moment that, that whole destruction of king's landing happened. The black girl nerds podcast will be back in just a moment sent Berg. Have you ever had someone come up to you and say you smell amazing? What perfumer you wearing whatever? Saint you may be wearing. You have good taste, and you know what you like you wanna smell like royalty, right. We're talking about kings and queens on this podcast and you want to smell expensive. Well with centered. I have found a way that you can have the great taste smell expensive smell like a Queen, or a king, and you can mix up your fragrance routine without breaking the Bank. Whether. It's Tom Ford. Gucci for Saatchi Semper dot com. Keeps e smelling good month after month. I tried it myself I absolutely love it. They come in these cute. Little black pouches that you carry with you on the go. I use it as part of my routine in the morning after I do my makeup. I go ahead and do a little spread spritz here. The great to use when you're traveling, and sent bird has a very luxurious fragrance and it's a subscription service for perfumes and colognes. That's what sent bird is. So separate is kind of like net flicks perfumes. You can choose anything from product. Tom Ford for Santi don't chain. 'gabon a Cartier Gucci Calvin Klein so much more. Choose the perfume. You wanna try? They will send you a thirty days apply. That's a hundred and twenty sprays and to apply more than four times daily a month. That's actually a really good deal. And if you're kinda like on the fence. About it. You can check out user ratings and reviews on any fragrance or you can take sent birds true son quiz to discover more personalized recommendations for your taste, so Jamie, you've told me all this information. What do I do with it? Okay. Here's what you're going to do, just for you. Our listener right now here on the block role nerds podcast. We're going to give you fifty percent off of your first month today. That's right. You're gonna get fifty percent off of your first order, which is only seven dollars and fifty cents. So go to sent bird dot com forward slash nerds and use my code nerds fifty percent off that's sent bird dot com but we're slash nerds. Use the code nerds fifty percent off and again, that's S E, N T bird dot com forward slash nerds. Free to try your first perfume, or Cologne for only seven dollars and fifty cents sign on and smell amazing. That was just the beginning. I just wasn't expected her to go pinkie on the brain on like I just. I thought you know, she'll be happy with their thrown and west is free. And she would kind of rule, and John would be her man, and they would just kind of I was hoping live happily ever after. But I mean Danny's ATar Garin through and through fire and blood all the way. So, yeah. Yeah. I was I mean I mean I, I still stay I still understand Dami, but I can also see the other side where it's like, oh, she's not going to be a just ruler. So she's gonna roll with an iron fist. So that actually kind of segues over to John and Tyrian having a conversation. Tyrians locked up in tearing the interior in when John walks in, he goes, did you bring wine? Gee alcoholic. So teary-eyed knows his fate is sealed. And he kind of kind of basically says that various was right. He says, you know, when, when Danny executes me varies ashes are going to tell my ashes, I told you so. And then he asked John John is actually only person that he knows. That's died and come back from the dead. So he's just like so what's on the other side for me? And John tells them nothing so Tyrian kind of he's saying oblivion is the best he can hope for. And he recounts all his sins. He he betrayed varies his closest friend. He strangled. He killed his father, and he betrayed this Queen, but he would do it all, again, knowing what he knows now he basically tells tells John that he was wrong. He picked the wrong side, and that I guess it was vanity or it was foolish from the think that he could council Danny. So at this point, Tyrian goes a plan b he tries to convince John to do the right thing, and John kind of it's almost like they were expecting the audience's reaction with Danny's actions from last week because they basically break down everything we talked about last week. So John tries to justify what she did to a degree. He's like, I don't I can't justify but she lost everybody her best friend was murdered. She lost Giora. She's been through so much. I can she has all this power. She has his drac, and I can see how she snapped and then Tyrians like, yeah. And she's I mean she's been she didn't just snap. She's been ruthless all along. But we were cheering for her. So it's almost like telling us audience will work culpable of what Danny has done because apt to this point, everyone that she's murdered has been an evil person or perceived to be an evil man. And now she's finally murdered innocence for the greater good at least in her head. But it still wrong. So Tyrian tries to convince him to take her out, and they have a conversation about love. He tells you like I know you love her, but love is more powerful than reason. Look at my brother. Look what he did. So John quotes, his great, uncle Mr. Ayman. He says love is death of duty Tyrian says sometimes duty as death of love which foreshadows the very next scene. So Danny's in the throne room. She approaches the throne. It's basically the same imagery as her vision from the house of the on dying season to the roof has gone from the throne room there snow, and I'm going to say ash mixed everywhere. She actually at this point approaches to thrown. She touches it, unlike her vision, and she turns around, she's just about to sit down on throne, and then she spots, John, so she doesn't sit down. She goes to him, and she looks happy. It's all good in her head like she's like, hey, like we did it. We made it. Let's, let's get pass all this. Let's be a power couple. Beyond say you Jay z. She like plight up to him. And I think up until this point. John didn't know what he wanted to do. So he's talking scenarios, he's trying to reason with their I think he's trying to find her humanity. Trying to see if they're still The Danny that he loves in there somewhere. So he talks to her, and he asked her to forgive teary ends like forgive the Lancasters and all the enemies like show mercy. And Danny's like, no, we can't show mercy in this new world. And so she says, like what she's doing good. And she wants John to be at her side to build this great new world and John's like, well, how do you know that? You're good. And she just like I just know he's like, what about the other people that think that they know what's good? And basically, the next thing she says kinda seals are fate. She says they don't get to choose. So she's back to being a dictator. And John knows what he has to do. So I mean he kisses her. He tells her she'll be his Queen, always in forever. And, you know, he means it, and they kiss you think in your mind like oh, they're making up. Everything is great. And then you hear a dagger going through somebody's body and it's not John's body. It's Danny, and she kinda looks at him. And you see, like the innocent girl that she was back in season, one ever so briefly and then she dies in his arms. Everybody probably a home is like what the. What just happened? It was a lot. John has the luck of women because egret dialing exact same way a couple of seasons ago and John's arms. So. That I don't know if makes me creepy or not. But I actually rewound it just to make sure I heard the sound of the blade going through our heart one more time Justice at their and savored. Wow. Molly cry. But, you know. I mean, I've used it because, you know, we're getting a lot more metaphors in poetic moments throughout this, period. I'm glad that they didn't have her give last words to John like just had her naturally dine his arms without saying anything that moment was a lot more significant that way than had. She said some, you know, I don't know poetic catch. I that's the way they decided it was, it was beautifully done, and it kind of goes back. But we were talking about with the prophecy of as a high, which is version of the prince that was promised the same thing happened. The same imagery is actually use if you Google Zora high and showing how he killed his wife niece nissanusa when he stabbed her through the heart with light bringer. It says axiom imagery, and John is supposedly the reincarnation of his or a high. So we kind of predicted a last episode of episodes back, that John would be the one to take Danny, Al, and I think it actually worked out better than it. Be an aria like I just don't feel like it would have been as emotional, in as meaningful. If a stranger killed her, I think it would have been better. You know, the person that loved her the most in the entire world. So. I on agree with though, I mean me personally, I want her to live, but me too. Once I did it, but I was like, I still thinking, you know, just everything her character has been it just seems like oh, come on. You gotta stab ridge. I don't know it just seemed like I waiting for something else. I don't know. Yeah, it was really sad because she's gone through so much. He worked so hard to get to this point. And it's like if only Danny had it lost. Massanga you know, if only dead. And you had gear. Yeah. Maybe she would have been in a different place, because she would have listened to those people. Those people would have been in her corner. But unfortunately, she kinda chose madness. I think I don't think I don't think Danny's snapped. I think she gave into her true, major so it's just really sad. Like she didn't get to sit on the throne. You know. I turned around. I was like you've gotta be kidding me. I was like, come on. And I know upon rewatching the series I'm going to start. I'm going to do that, pretty soon start watching it from the beginning, it's going to mean like it's going to just play differently in my mind as I'm watching it knowing like her alternate fate, so yeah. And then, of course, because she has such a strong connection with drogue on. One once she is killed. Drones alerted to that almost like their connection was severed. And he felt it so you goes to her. He sees John over her body. John backs up, he nudges her, what his nose like it is reminded me of Simba in the lion. King. Art. Come on. Come on. And she doesn't move, and then you think he's going to toast, John like he looks at John I flare up and I was like, oh my God. John's girth, and instead, he melts the iron Brown and a lot of people don't realize that the dragons are extremely intelligent, their magical creatures on. They met be able to speak, but they can think just as well as we can so earliest because he can his connection with Dana. Maybe he can emphathize. He's he can feel that the iron tone is what she was seeking, and that's what got her killed. So he burned that mother effort to the ground. And he takes Danny's body, and he flies away with her effort to be seen again. So poor dro- gones out here like little orphan Adamy would nobody in the world ever ever level on. And I'm sure he's fine east. That's where we last heard that he's out there flying east. So hopefully he found a nice little spot for Danny's body in. The end of that. I just I'm a little confused at wide drug on did not kill John. I mean, I didn't want John to die. But I just feel like that, that would have naturally been the response to saying his mother die, and he knew it was at the hands of John and then him breathing onto the iron throne in destroying it. I don't understand what the significance. There was either. So I was just a little confused at how that scene was Hannam at think it's because, as the said that he has a connection like areas had a connection with all the dragons, almost like telepathic connection, and dragons, are very intelligent in this world. So whether he knew for sure he absolutely cents that this thrown is what she coveted most. And if he's as smart as they're made out to be in the books, he just kinda calculated. This is why mom is dead. Teen just destroy the throne. He was just like a she can't have it. No one. Well. So that's why I think he went for the throne set a John, and I think also because he, he to a degree. He senses John's lineage, I guess, or he trusts John. I'm not sure why drug on decided just to take out the throne, the non John, but I'm happy for it. I'm glad arriving. Yeah. No, I'm not complaining. It just seem mar. Yeah. Just seemed like a bizarre way to you know, in that scene. 'cause I just preferred the Joe gone just not see it in. That's how John's survive. But the fact that were on had his chance to avenge his mugger, I and you didn't do it. I don't know that was just kind of bizarre to me. Maybe like his mommy knows a little something about mercy. I don't know. Just just kind of touching on Danny break in the wheel. She did break the wheel. She achieved old, but the price was her death. I'm an I will almost compare Danny to I wouldn't consider Danya villain. I still don't think she's a villain. I think she's a tragic figure on she had a misstep, she's more. So like Julius Caesar to me. You know, she was she was stabbed just like him. So you know, I'm still team Danny. I just wish hadn't gone that route, and as we stated before there's so many factors that led to Danny's path, this person didn't die if that person didn't die of John had only loved her, you know, maybe she would have been different towards the end on. When Amelia Kark learned that Danny died. She took a five hour walk, and she. Yeah. Like she just could not believe that Danny was going to be killed, and she actually called her mom crying. And she asked her mom if Dan is a good person that there's anything that will make her hate Danny. But ultimately Amelia Clark stands by Danny's decision. She's ATar Garin five in blood. That's what she does. And I kinda agree with that. And I as I stated I don't think Danny will ever, be a just ruler. She was just too ruthless. Us too heavy handed and without her advisers around her to real her back end. She would never she was never going to be a good ruler, but she was, however, an excellent commander, you know, she took the ir are to Diane, thrown essentially through fire and blood. So I feel like if you need someone to get the job done called any but as far as actually ruling presiding over things, what that team around she just wasn't it. So, you know, she she was shaped by those loyal advisor. If they were still in her corner. Maybe this'll be a different story. But that is not the case. Yeah. I think that was a little bit on them. Yeah. The advisors. Like, I, I like how tearing in various slowly dropped off after things started happening like you know, I didn't tell her this right until it over here and try to conquer this they were kind of backing off like, oh, this is just all her. They decided to make these plans and everything. She didn't have the dream team anymore and the end and I think as Tyrian said it was vanity to think that they could real her back in. What are your opinions on? How Tieren has been written this season because I just feel like throughout every season of this series. He's been able to outwit himself in at every turn in a situation and he was outwitted in luckily, he survived, but, you know, he could have died and I was just wondering what you guys thought about the fact that he's kinda like lost. I mean, I think it's just at the last couples honestly Tyrians been slipping. He never degree redeemed himself. You kinda fell into the background lots couple of these and I think part of some of the writing issues, but I do feel like Tyrian came around which leads us the dragon pit but. I really can't say I think sometimes you can't be on your game all the time. So my opinion Tyrian has been through a lot. And if we go back all the way from the beginning of the show and everything that he has done like like I said, he was always on point at this point in time, the switch up hem Kip, killing his father than him going against a whole Lancaster, family in seeking out. Sarah, see in becoming her hand and in trying to deal with how the world is were clearly flipped upside down. It's a total opposite sides. I think he did handle hisself well, and everything that did not go, according to plan also did show him bit of humility, and he did get departed at think on that even though he still made the wrong decision when him and Varis had the chat. I still love Terry, and I don't like say anything negative about him, but I can understand. Why is characterized finally written that way? And I think it does add a special touch to how everything ended, and he did suffice the end of the day he did survive. He did end up being the handicapped again. Everything came full circle, but in all his childhood tribulations up until now he is going to help brand usher, in this new world and make sure that everything that's happened in the past. Stays in a pass in the wheel does stay broken. Actually agree with you on this one. Yes. The actually kind of leads us to Tyrian he's a clear a couple of weeks. I've gone by John has been imprisoned for his crime. Tyrian obviously was in prison for betraying Danny on. He's brought into the dragon pit before looks like all the leader of the great houses. And they're just determine his fate in John's grey, worm is not a happy camper. He was supposed to bring John before them as well. Gremlins like this in my prisoner is our city. I'm gonna do what I want. So what are you all about the do about him like he, he was in his feelings? You know, daddy liberated him. She gave him everything he has. So it's understandable. Why he's not too happy with John. So they end up actually coming to a compromise because John committed his crime in king's landing. It's up to the new king, or Queen of king's landing to decide his fate and gray resigned himself to that decision. So they start you know saying that who's going to be it in Edward tally arrogant as ever, you would think being in the dungeons of the twins. He would, you know, humble himself a little bit. But, nope. He stands up gives his little speech talking about how he's a decorated soldier, and blah, blah, blah, blah, in sounds literally tells them to, to have a seat like have several seats on goal it down. Yeah. I was like, why is he retrial right now? You're like you're lucky even got invited to this show behind. Yep. And then side though, Robin Aaron with the glow of, like, John. She's all growed up. Low snack out EMMY street. Rolling. Young boy. Of this series guest that breast milk. Did it? Well. Suren breastfeed them. Back to the point. So Sam has a cute little moment to Sam proposes that the new leader is elected by the people, and what's the roses just not ready for all that? They laugh him off the stage. Essentially, they're just like what like who does that like going with the dogs vote, too? So they eventually come to a compromise. The new leader will be decided by the leaders of the great houses. And the person Tyrian proposes as Brian now, Platt Twiss. No one was expecting brand to be sitting on the iron throne or I guess sitting in his wheelchair in the throne room. But. And then I, I feel like brands been trolling us this whole time 'cause like when tearing asked him like, well, you wear the crown and brands like yeah. Oh, I think I came down here like what? Being. I'm just trying to say where's brand on? Become the king, not only that it was just a few episodes, where they like asked him what he wants and he's like, I want for nothing so you want, nothing few episodes, and then he's like, why am I here for my crown? Obviously, he played the game of thrones. He played his car and that all three as and I think, I think I love my tweet was them saying, like, when you don't do anything and the group project, but you still get an A. Exactly, he you. Really light to make brand. He's useless. He really isn't like brands been through a lot. He gave him a lot of useful information. He is, you know, the guy in the control room. He's not the superhero, so let's give brand a little bit of credit brand. The broken and I won that title is disrespectful. Title in that. But then I thought about it, and I'm like, well, I've are the boneless was very fearless very popular leader in Viking culture, Viking lower and he can walk either. So there you have it. He's been good company. I'm an almost compare. Brands like Gerald Ford, you know, the president before, Gerald Ford was Richard Nixon will compare sir say to him, and Gerald Ford was just like that good guy level. It quiet he was what was needed at the times, I do feel like brand was a good choice despite the fact that no one was expecting it. He's all knowing. He's all seeing. He has knowledge of all the previous kings of the of the seven kingdoms. He can see limited the future. He's he has no emotions. So he's not gonna make any rash decisions, and he made Tyrian his hand. So I mean, I feel like he's a fair choice. What do you guys think? There was a tweet that was one of my favorite tweets of the night. Someone said hold up. So brands, non communicative, riddle, speaking asks, it's going to be the cushion. I mean I don't know. I just I would have preferred Tarran to be the king quite frankly, that that's what I was gunning for. Once we got the news about what John's fate was going to be. But. Yeah, I, I don't know an Email king is that? Are we really know? And that could probably work as far as it goes. Right. It's highly unlikely that he's just going to start a war based on his rings being hurt but I just don't know. Like you need a leader that can communicate with the people that the people can sort of, you know, empathize with connect with. And he's not. He's not that didn't rock now regret. Do. That's why he named -tarian his hand. Here in is, is definitely a people person. So. Yeah. But the look on tears face, though, was priceless when he asked him to. Predicament again. But here my whole take on brain brand is like a rolling cheat code. He has access to all of the past and could see bits of the future. So as long as he can always do that. He's not going to be the face. The public face to the entire kingdom Tyrian is, so he's going to tell tearing his little riddle staf. Go roll off into the distance again ago ward something and tearing going to handle auto business. So with that being said, I do think the six kingdoms are in good hands now. I guess it's gonna be kinda like that relationship that Aries had with Thailand time when was kind of the one that was holding it down and really ruling writings. So I if you look at it from that perspective, I understand, but I'm still on my feelings about it. First of all on that damn iron thrown, but. Other like fun one good thing that came out of this sunset shouldn't even vote. She was like. Let me get that north though. Like what about the north and because her brother is Dino the new king. He grants sound says wish she is now ruler of the independent kingdom of the north. So. Upgrade one table upgraded to. She got she got a real thrown. So I was happy about it. And of course, we know John's fate was he was basically sent back to night's watch it at the time I was in my feelings. I'm like, really after all this. He gets dumb owed. It back to where like he got put back on fries. Like goes back the way for. Paying for. Either one backed the bastard. The outline. I was upset, but that was the only compromise if they gave him to the solid, it would cause war, if you let them go free, it would cause war, so the best option sentiments exile. So we'll touch on that in a bit. But let's focus on the small council and all the promotions that happen. So we have a small council dream team. We have brand as Lord commander of the king's guard. And I just love the moment where she opens that white book of the kings guard, and she writes out all of Jamie's good deeds. Like out of the second hundred do like burn book, like this is the ugliest. And he's trashing bed. She. Now. She she. Like. Issue. Everything she was just like he got captured the whispering was, but he was set free by Kotlin stark. I mean honored his, his duty to the stark sisters by reuniting them with bringing in, and, you know, he fought valiantly at river, Ryan, there was no casualties. He went to north and decided to fight for the living and he went south to save his sister and save the kingdom. He died. Protecting his Queen, so she can put them. Nice little spin on everything that Jamie dead. I guess, to a degree, he did do those things. So we'll give him that credit. And it was actually that was the only moment in the episode where I kinda like teared up a little bit L. She's like oh, still love her boo. So. She was a mad at him. So that was a great moment. And then other promotions Padre is moved up to. Surpa. L. L give it up to where. Being is now part of the king's guard along with him. Sam is grand Maistre an he had actually he wrote a book he helped write a book caught a song is in fire. That's a little not George Armar. Any actually says he is most like Sam. So that was cute little moment brand. Give it up. I mean, not brand Bron give it up for bron-. He finally got his castle, y'all. Pat. Alan Bryan out here. He's talking about. Let's build up Brock. Hustled that position, though. Respect respect. He's now Lord of high garden. Lord of the region. Master of coin Davos got upgrade to. He is no longer sir Dobelis, he Lord Davos. And he is now the Lord and master of ships and also the master of grammar notice, how he corrects Bron when he says it was, it was like eight or nobody. And he was like, no one. So he's taking a bit after stay. And then, you know grey worm he was named master of war, but grey, worm wants. No parts of west rose. He's going out to be on the beaches of NAS, just as he promised his longtime Bouma Sunday. She sat she can't join them. So, yeah. That that's basically all the promotions that I actually loved that small council seen. They're talking about building ships in there. Asking Bron for foods. Replenish, the people bronze, like, yeah, let's how about these brothels. Let's build those up, first and then brands like why thinks ships take over take presidents over brothels? It was cute. And then I think tearing gives that little joke that we've never heard the end of he brought a honeycomb in a donkey into a brothel weekly, we never know what the joke is. So they kind of close on that little chapter, and I think it was wonderfully done, but overall over arching theme here. Ending that people aren't very happy about, but this is what I take away from it. The Starks one like at the end of the day this story started with the Starks the Starks one, they're all all the remaining stocks are still alive. And while brand the broken is now first of his name king of the end on the first man, protector of the Roman king of the six kingdoms. And if you think about it, maybe George intended for brands to be king all along. He is the very first POV chapter in the very first book of a song of ice and fire. So bronze at the top. There are sorry, Bron brand. All these names, Bram, Saen says Queen and the north with upgraded picnic table are yet is now captain of her own destiny. She's off to explore the unknown world in the name of house stark. And I just love seeing that big giant sail with a stark Sigillino top of it. So she's out there doing her thing, and Jen Gandhi's in his room playing Drake. And then that leads us to John and John's banishment to the night's watch. I initially was crushed it. I was just not happy with it. I consider it a demotion. But honestly, the north is where he belongs job never wanted to rule. And now amongst the white Ling's, he's free. He doesn't have any pressure to be a leader. They accept him as he is. And so, John is literally the song of ice and fire this whole saga is about him, and he ends the story, the blood of the stocks in the blood of the tar Carrian's flow through his veins. A lot of people were upset that Johns lineage really wasn't brought to the public, quote, unquote, while he was considered a contender for the throne, despite the fact that he was the rightful heir. And they're like, well, what was the point of even telling us about John's lineage, and I feel like John fulfilled his destiny because of his blood, the stark tar, Gary blood? He is the show that. The rela minute he fulfilled his destiny. I really do think he was the reincarnation of or a high in the prints that was promised his father predictive that his third child will be the prints that was promised. And he was to save the world. And John did that twice over he helped along by helping defeat. Dea army the dead in Otamendi. He killed Danny in order to save the world. So no, he didn't have this big grandiose ending that one would expect but it's game with Roan. This is the best that you'll get. And so he was sent to the night's watch, and what is a nice watch any more. There's a there's no Wild Wings to fight against because they're all peaceful with each other. There's a peace amongst the free folk, there's no white walkers, all been eliminated. So Tyrian says it'll be a place for bastards and broken things. But in the last shot of the episode, we see initially when he gets to castle black. We finally we see torn on waiting for him. And he gets his moment. With goes finals. People can shut up about that. He petted goes they go beyond the wall. And you see initially when he's there, there's a bunch of brothers and black. But when he leaves he looks back, one last time, it seems like he's saying goodbye to the law, and he's the only person in black among all these wild Ling's. So I'm not sure of his exile was really meant from to go tonight's wash. I think it was a way to get him out of out of gray worms mine. The sullies mind. Let him go free up north. So in my mind end of the story, John was like the king beyond the wall, and we end where we begin. The first thing I was at the wall beyond the wall. And we end the same way, there'd be on the wall. So that is the end of game of thrones. I really loved torments expression on his face. When he I Don like, what are you doing here bre, but I don't know. I, I think the only hopeful thing for me even though that was beautiful. The way you described it, by the way that was great that end. But I think the hopeful thing for me with this ending is knowing that maybe there is a small sliver of hope that torment and Brian will be. Oh, may go get the girl now. Burster. I hate to oh. I your bubble Danny. I mean, Danny Jamie daddy's on my mind, I'm gonna pressure about the king's guard can't take wives husbands or have children's. Yeah. That's right. So, you know, Tormenta I had to find a tall lady up north he'd like shying. They're out there. Yeah. Another point. John is the great nephew of Amman targe area, who was also the rightful heir to the iron throne, and he gave up his throne for his brother to rule he decided to serve, that's the same thing that John did. So he's very much like his family. I'm just trying to be as positive as possible, because it's ten years of my life. Eight seasons invested in these characters in Amine said the Starks and the being on top almost everyone of them is a ruler of something John says a ruler of the north brand rules, the six kingdoms, you know, I feel like are going to be, you know, Queen the sea and John's king beyond the walls, like what more can you ask for? John's ending. It's a very noble one. I am. I am very happy now at to say when I first watched episode, you know, I was on Twitter, black Twitter, Facebook, everything and also Texan Djelic as Keough. I am heated right now. This is horrible. But at this broke it down, like she did this entire podcast. I was like, okay, now I get it. Now understand certain aspects and so forth. Now with all that being said the thing that I'm most excited about is aria now. They make a spin off show with aria going on her adventures. They're not renew my HBO subscription. And I always all of life and everything on that. But our is my favorite character. I am happy how, you know, hers ended and like she said, you know, the stocks ended up at on top. So given game of thrones and how in the past they ruined everything for, you know, always like tugged on the wrong emotions. They did finally ended on a positive note, which is great. Daime Ryan, your thoughts. Yeah. I think I think Saizen aria to me where the two characters where I could see from beginning to end with both their care because I could see where they kind of ended up. Everybody else was a true like you have to be on the game of thrones ride to figure out where they're going with the see what theories we're going to go with. But yeah, I think you have to look at the positive side of it. You just gotta kinda summer Shiseido or whatever they're going to give you because it has been like a really cool. Joining the last, I'm gonna miss, Danny. I still think I would like to see her pizza. Yeah. But, you know, I think they, you know, I have to get the craters there do, because I don't think it's easier to couple of the head of this many characters, and they have to go to place with him. Yeah. So our I would say I wasn't angering. Yeah. Wasn't angry at the end. I think there was they had to do what they had to do to get it, where it was. And, you know, Jonah's like he looked happy, you know, not his usual light wandering off way. What makes things? So. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I'm with you guys. I mean, I wanted something different. But listen, it's not about what I wanted. It's what's best for the show or broke that down. It does kinda helped me put things in perspective and understanding. Okay. Well, you know, he is now the king behind the wall are beyond the wall. I really liked the fact there at how stark did win always been house stark from the beginning in like you said, before we started with this family, and I like how we wrap the series finale with this family, and that they all have gone their separate ways in each have been promoted in their own right? So I think that's really cool. I, I would have liked a better fate for Danny. I really would have liked her to not go so crazy to where she had, you know, have to die because of her actions. But at the same time, I do understand that given her history. But I just felt like they should have gone down another path, especially not to. Kind of grow the gender card here. Brett, especially since they did still well with promoting women in these leadership roles in China, do Danny's character. Just felt like you guys. Come on. It's gonna be for them to like go with that a little bit for their. Yeah. Yeah. So just a little disappointed with that. But, you know overall like I'm not one of those people that are like I hate this show. I'm scripture. Alike. I I'm just more like you know, it could have been better. But, you know, I'll order, why don't you say he said you paint your coming for him because he? With alex. What was it actually didn't follow, what was it specifically that made you upset was it who ended up being the king was it Danny? What was it that? Four is the entire journey. So, you know, we started off with with, Danny beginning, you know, the stocks and everybody, and then all, again, the Charleston Chevy relations built them up all the hardships, and they paid them in his glorious light. Then literally snap it a finger, like, what the third season which was on which another third season, which was on the, the white walkers, the war against August a second or third episode during and an episode for was like, okay and then five it just completely switched like it got rushed. That's the thing it went from buildings characters up, and what a snap it a finger. One episode you just hate. All of them had a diminished. All the love all the growing that we've done with these characters. It was like kind of unrealistic at. That's one of the reasons why I just couldn't take it. Like even though it is game of thrones. This was still it wasn't up to par for me. Yeah. Yeah. I think most people will be divided. Especially on Danny's turn, I'm on the side of things where it's like it, basically, if you go back and rewatch, they've been hinting all along. So her ruthlessness in, you know, the fact that she went, quote unquote, mad make sense. There are people that feel like it was rushed on. And that just because there was that doesn't mean that was good character development. So you're, you're going to be split down the middle when it comes to that. So I mean I was okay with it. Alex, clearly it's not. Yeah. I just want to add to that literally like the last decade. I've been crushing hard on Danny. So it's kind of like my heart was broken out of the like I loved you so much. How you this to me? She was the cool elevate, though, like the dragons and everything else, wanna reasons after watching. Yeah. It was kinda hard to see that just be like you know what? Just fine Rogun, whatever we find him, you know, he's, he's said off of. But I mean they could I guess they could move them on their own. Like everybody wanted, I guess. I knew that you can have both it was going to be one of the other. John Ardy died wants so the lab role. Any and Speedo drug? I actually didn't catch the hint where they're looking for drug either like oh, we last go east. And then brand goes, maybe I can find him like just like is gonna win. So that was my little fan favorite moment. But you know overall I'm satisfied with a series there, despite all its flaws the potholes. You know, people what people say is bad writing you try writing a show, this amend yourself. I feel like what is amazingly done. You know, this season might have been the best, but they were working off script. They weren't working off a Georgia's books anymore. They got the broad stroke, though, George gave them that the actual ending where everyone's going to end up. He didn't say how so that was up to the writers. But overall there is nothing else like game of thrones on television period. You will never like this a cultural phenomenon that's ended. We will never see it's like again and I know they're coming out with them blood moon next year, which is the game thrones prequel. But I don't feel like anything's going to touch on the magic of this. Series. And I'm I've missed the live tweets and black Twitter coming together and just the water cooler conversations at work. Texting your friends in the night like the episode and having you know call it a workers. Your depressive charactered I like I'm gonna miss all that. So despite the fact that the, the season wasn't up to par in path with audiences standards. I'm very happy with it, and I will always love the show. Excited about the they have coming out. I wonder if they're going to reveal some stuff that people, we still have that. So I guess I mean I don't think it's going to be exciting. Live tweets elect tweeted documentary. Yeah, but I like some maybe they'll drop some here. That make I don't know. I guess you can never everybody's still probably gonna be mad. After you were going to be cool with it, but I just wondered if they would like some kind of note sort of stuff that they may be we're thinking about or some of the, you know, some of the things that are missing from having to quickly, I agree. But yeah, I, I look forward to it. So, yeah. Let's get into our very less a fan reactions and questions. Lots of reactions clearly as I said, not my president was or not my king was trending on Twitter. So people weren't happy with brand. I do like this particular person's observation on John Arlene at Arlene for eight three eight seven four five five. She says this anyone feel like John got the hunger games treatment like catnip murdered, the recognize leader, then gets Castile and lives happily ever after while the rest of the world run smoothly. I'm an what can I say? Yeah. If you really think about it catnip exact same thing, she killed a leader. And then she was imprisoned, and they exiled her. The same thing as John. So I agree with that statement. But guess thing. Yeah. That's right. I never thought about that, that correlation and streams remains sif. I can pull up another one. Let me go into the brain tweets. 'cause people were there fill-ins. Just go in on that real quit when we hit hit this Twitter account. Right. Quick one second guys. Where is it at tweeted a lot last night? All right. So we already said it was Mon Cherie eighty three at sea Wests underscore Inc. Said I can't stand him and then he was called D at RS zero he n said, well he can't stand year but. Was was the tweet and then basically just people complaining about Brian that's really across the board. That's not my king on one person. Nameless, edge, a quarter to eight said, I love this ending brands perfect knowledge over any, everything is key. And the people some people do concur with that statement, so across the board, brand was not a popular choice. But I do fill in the end. He was the best choice outside of John. I think he was the best choice. So, yeah, that wraps our final episode all my gosh. What are we gonna do? A right in. And that's how I feel like in general. Like, what am I gonna live tweet Nixon day? What am I gonna do next Sunday on and, and doing this podcast with you guys have been such a blast Anjelica? Thank you for your hard work in the breakdowns, girl, you'd be digging into the detail, and then going outside of the show, getting more backstory behind how these episodes are constructed. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ryan, Alex, for your excellent commentary. This has been such a fun show to produce put out, and we've got so many great fans in followers that love listening to the show, and I really want to do more with the with the recaps in or just. Yeah. Does in general, because, you know, our followers and fans love that stuff. Yeah. You know what I think Jamie what we could do. This might be a lot. But maybe perhaps when our rewatch, and like breaking down every, like a lot, but maybe like a season that time I don't know. We could do like a recap recap. A recap the recap. Guys now. Yeah, I love game of thrones. And in, I need something to kind of fill that gap before we get to the prequel so that. And also, it would probably be good to do that, as a refresher before we will begins because I'm sure there's going to be Easter eggs. Everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere, people are going to have to rewatch to kind of figure out where those eggs are. But yeah, yeah, I'm definitely down for. I think it's a great idea. And I just wanted to add like I've been live tweeting game of thrones. I think since season three and it's just been a blast like live, tweeting this show over the years and game of thrones is by far, the only show that gets so many people, especially on black Twitter excited, and I've never I've live tweeted, several shows as you guys know that have been listening to be GM throughout the years and never have I had such a huge response from tweet and engagement as I have with game of thrones. So it's, it's gonna be interesting to see, like, okay, what's going to be the next cultural, fidget, cultural phenomenon of show because, you know, the, the other shows that are out there it's just not the same impact that game. Thrones has agreed in just like I, you know, we both live tweet for BG at an like I literally make a tweet and on a different show baby. I'll get like a hundred likes like fifty re tweets game thrown thing, I've gotten up to twenty five K likes like. That's like a quarter of a million. So, yeah, I, I hope maybe that the prequel will have such a huge following just because I just it's like nothing better than game. Thrones sunday. So I really look forward to next year in hoping that it recaps and it's going to be tougher them though. I'm excited that they do because they're, they're trying to do like, like three different ones. Right. Like they're different kinds of so that's gonna be paying that's like a lot, but yeah, I'm excited to see because I feel like they have to keep it going. Somehow still gonna want something. So. Yeah. That'd be cool. Yeah. Day money. They come up with. Yeah. Well, I, I definitely want to essentially put this out airwaves say thank you entire cast game of thrones. The directors producers, the set designers cinematographers everybody involved. It was it was beautifully done. And I don't care people feel about it. They didn't amazing job. I don't think anyone else could have done it. So I just want to thank them for these last eight years of amazingness, and we forgive you to the script supervisor that forgot to take an a lot about and the water about two to water bottles served Bagua in. It was in Sam two years. We waited and then you guys make this many. Thirsty. Yeah. This has been great. Thank you guys. Guys. I appreciate it. Black girl, there is this. This is awesome. I love this. Yeah. That you guys, you don't find this kind of span. I'll game let me just say when you doing watercolor tall, you're not gonna find that, that you find on a gene. So this has been great, thank. Yes. Thank you. Thank you guys. And stay tuned for new stuff from us coming up soon, and we appreciate you listening in later.

John John Danny Danny Jamie daddy Tyrian Daime Ryan king Tyrian Tyrians Twitter HBO commander Tyrian Alex Lancaster Danny beater softball Mark dot Shema Nagasaki
Game of Thrones Re-Watch | Season 7, Ep #3: The Queen's Justice

Post Show Recaps

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Game of Thrones Re-Watch | Season 7, Ep #3: The Queen's Justice

"Winter was here. But we're just getting started here on the game of thrones rewatch here on post show. Recaps of season seven episode three the queen's Justice now here the two guys who are always impregnable. I am rob sister here with Josh Josh, how are you? I am not impregnable. It is easy to get under my skin, and you don't even need to take me to the citadel to do it. I'm just I'm vulnerable. I'm here. I'm exposed. Okay. All right. So Joshua glare. Here. We are talking about the queen's Justice good outing here for game of thrones, strong, adding strong belli's. I wish we could say, but we can't here. We are the queens Justice the first ever meeting between John snow and deniro star Garin fund one for you to revisit you're happy with this. Yes. Yes. I crazy did the season seven of game of thrones. Or like peak in the middle. Yet to degree degree. I mean, I think the next episode a lot of people think is the best one I like this one and the next one I think that they might be the two best from seven. They're both very fun. I mean, it's really fun to see John and Danny in in the same room for the first time getting to hear about white walkers for the first time, even Tyrians really understanding this for the first time. So once once you're getting like, the main threat in the in the universe of the show on the radar of these main characters who have been completely unaware of it and have been in their own worlds for so long. That's just going to be exciting. And obviously, we know where things are going to end up for John and Danny by the end of this season. So that's pretty exciting as well to kind of trace the origins of this, very important relationship. Okay. Josh anything else thrones related from the week gun by you wanna highlight before we dive into queens Justice. There's a little bit of. Of a teaser that was released on Sunday ahead of the true. Detective finale where was like showing off everything that they've got coming up for the year in twenty nineteen. So there's a tiny bit of new game of thrones. But that they revealed it was it's basically they're showing the same thing over and over again, and you can't blame them. I'm kind of the mind that if I'm HBO I don't release a trailer. I think you just remind people when the data's and let it sell itself, but there's they're showing this same scene of deniro. Army arriving winter fell just from different vantage points, the one that they showed in this. Most recent teaser was aria seeing dragon for the first time that seemed pretty cool. How was true detective is fine. All right. Emily was was more into it than I was didn't seem like people were that hyped up for it had like a kind of sort of a sweet ending. Is nice Marshall alley is an incredible actor Joe crazies winning an Oscar while his finale is airing at the same time. We should all be so lucky first world problem. Yes. Absolutely. I one out. All right. Josh, let's talk about what's going on here in seasons. Three eight. We saw the reunion of John snow interior Landis star. This is why this season's really exciting. It's it really is very exciting to see these characters interact for the first time like some of the stories stuff, whatever, you know, some of the pacing issues. Sure. But it has not yet been really disappointing. When you get like, John snow in tearing in the same room together again for the first time since the first season, and they really a lot of ways they pick up where they left off. But they've also both been through so much that they're they're picking up where they left off in terms of their familiarity. But with this this world weariness that they've got John snow is not just the bastard of winter Phil anymore. This is the king and the north year speaking to and Jerry Lancaster is much more than just the dwarf Castro rock now, he's the he's the queen's hand, and this is after he's already been to hand of the king at least acting handed the king wins upon a time. So it's cool to see John interior in trading barbs and being friendly for the first time in a good long while. Yeah, very fun in the exchange bastard of winter fell dwarf Castelli rock very like Han and Lando. Each other at cloud city and. The seems a little charged at first, and then just hug it out. And everything's great and John's ninety going to have to get frozen carbonate for visiting dragonstar working out better already. He was served as time beyond the wall. I mean, that's pretty much being frozen. It's like, you know, who else was that cloud city who lo- bought low by love that guy that guy. Not a lot of people with the full bald head on game of thrones not enough. Certainly. I mean, Randall Tara Lee, but he's going to be here for five minutes night king and he's got like ornaments in terms of. Yeah. Fairest our we can always have more. Okay. So it's kind of sad that John like a bunch of Raqi just like a walk off with his little rope. Oh, yeah. My boat. Yeah. They're they're they're just trying to they're trying to be very like they're welcoming. But not too welcoming. It's pretty clear who's in charge here, and John snow must have known this walking into the situation. I really do like it. When Masan day, though is just like greeting them. It's a pretty cordial greeting, and then she's like and turnover your weapons, and it's like it's a little awkward, but John is ready to play ball. Okay. Davos is also fun here. He talks about how this place is really changed since last time. He was here. Yeah. There's like Masan day of not here. And he's like, oh what's going on here? What are all these unsullied all about? Yeah. Okay. So as we're seeing John snow interior in walk up to a dragon stone. They're talking about everything that has been going on. And there's a, you know, some trading the stories how did you get to become the? The king in the north from the night's watch. And Tyrian ends up saying about how it has not gone well for the stark men when they travel south reminds him of that. Yeah. It's not usually a good thing for for the Starks to go. There's also we're going past it a little quickly. There's a there's a quick exchange between John interior about Sansa interior and like saying it was a sham marriage. It was not consummated. John did not want to know Tyrian is just letting him know that is that is not what's going on. I love the line where he says she's much smarter than she lets on. And John's she's starting to let on I love that. I think that's great. It's a phantom a big fan of that. But yes, Tyrian tells John that stark men, you not fare well when they travel south John says, I'm not a stock as it turns out he's Gary in so he's not not necessarily wrong nailed it. But before they can talk any further about that. They just get like buzzed by drogue on. Yeah. You don't get used to that. No. I think anyone who sees dragon for the first time is going to have a big reaction. John is kind of looking at this thing and little does. He know he's like he's like looking at his own destiny, right? This is thing. Like, he's like, oh, I don't know it yet. But I kind of feel like I might I might fly on one of those things someday. Well, yeah. Meanwhile, the lady Mila Sandra is watching all these events transpire and Kipling she didn't see virus following her up this mountain. There's is very sneaky, very sneaky. And so a various business weird that you told us to bring John's no here, and then you're like hiding while he's here. Yeah. Varis is never gonna with on an opportunity to drag red priest priestess. He hates magic. He hates all of this stuff. So he sees mouse Angela being contemplative and alone kind of sneaking away various isn't going to let that go unchecked. So he's like picking up on the whole thing that Mel asandra roll around these people as she oughta be last time, she saw John Davos, they threatened her life. She is incentivized to not be killed at this moment in time. So she's thinking about getting out of here. She's going to go home. She's go home for a while. She's got some things to do. Look, I got them together brought fire and ice together. My work here is done. I said the thing I said the title. That's it. I need to go back to Vallance this perhaps. Yeah, she's going to go to Lantis. And VERA says I think you should stay there. I don't think she'd come back to west rose. You're not going to be safe here. This is when Mel asandra says something that is very charged. She says, oh, I will return dear spider one last time. I have to die in this strange country. Just like you white what? Yeah. Yeah. That's not cool. Is that it for Mel Sandra this season? That's it for mala, Sandra. This we have not seen her since this moment. Okay. So we are expecting one last time out for mills Sandra in seasoning. I feel like mala Sandra is the easiest prediction for somebody to die in the final season. She just said it. She just. I I have to come back to us one. Last time I have to die in the final season of game of thrones. But how but how indeed? And I think it's a good question. I think it's it's hard to know exactly how that's going to play out. There is still the the loose end of when she met aria stark back in season three, and she says to aria we will meet again when she looks at aria aria going to kill Mela, Sandra. What kind of beef would aria have with Mela Sandra to to cause her to kill her? I think that one of the things I've been chewing on that question a little bit more. I think are you had Mela Sandra on her list at one point after she was involved in taking Ganji away from the brotherhood without banners. When I got imagine it she's going to let that go. Once she meets up with Gandhi again, which would assume what happened fairly early in the next season. So what reason would have like kill Mela, Sandra? What if it's like a mercy killing what if? Mela Sandra is wounded she's going to die anyway Arias in the vicinity and REO can give her the gift of mercy. I guess so I mean, it seems kind of like a random thing to have it. Go down that way, Gandhari ends up being the one to take Mel, Sandra. With like he has a big bag of leeches. Maybe maybe not dumps a bag of leeches on her. And that's it. Yeah. We'll we'll see are you convinced that aria will have to kill Nelson. Well, I think that that would be the only scenario that I could see if it's like some kind of Mela Sandra super wounded she's going to die anyway. And she gets to have some final moment where Arias shows up and kills. I could see that. I think that that's a possibility Davos. For charene. No, I don't think 'Davis is going to ever have a moment of vengeance. I think Donna's is just going to have a really down the line ending would be my guess, I think he's just going to be able to kinda just like waltz through this thing. Okay. All right. So let's go to the big throne room. Dragon stone for our meeting of fire and ice. Jon snow meets air star, Gary. And for the first time, it's great. It's this is so hyped it so long awaited. It's tents. It's funny. It's sexy. It's it's thing you want it to be everything. So the misunder gives the long introduction of all of Danny's titles. The many many credits on her resume presents star, Gary. And and then DAV owes response. This is John snow. He's king in the north. That's it. That's very plain up north. Yeah. Not not a lot of bells and whistles. Yeah. Okay. And so things are tense the not on the same page. Denarius wants Jon snow to bend the knee. Yeah. That's what she wants wants John snow to give in she wants him to just immediately proclaim that he is going to be teamed tar Garin all the way, she's very disappointed when John says that's not the reason I came and it's like any any pretense that existed before quickly falls apart. Like, this almost goes, very poorly. Very fast. Yeah. Well, it starting to fall apart. It's getting away from them. So she wants to bend the knee. He doesn't want to he wants to talk about you know. Hey, hey, your dad killed my grandfather, your dad was bad, dude. Interesting. Yeah. My dad was a bad, dude. I'm not my dad. I'm great. I'm pretty cool bend the Starks in the. Targe areas will be we'll be totally buddies. Like it was before it's going to be great. And John says, listen, even though you're not guilty of your father's stuff. I'm not behold into our ancestral bond. That's not the reason John says, the real reason I'm here is because I need your help. And you need mine. That's the one thing they can agree on in terms of like. Let's not hold people accountable for what their parents did. Yeah. I think that that makes sense. But why do I need to help you? Armie the dead. The only the only thing that matters, sir. C and everybody else children playing it a game screaming that the rules aren't. That he just call me a baby she doesn't like she doesn't like it. She doesn't like it. He basically he calls her child, and he doesn't like that too. It's like, it's a figure speech. Yeah. He's like. Say that we're all being children. Like this guy. How John says everyone, you know, will die before winter's over if we don't defeat the enemy to the north and Dinara says your the enemy of the north like that don't lots of lots of great word place. Excellent dialogue back and forth in this scene. But John unrolls the big reveal. He says the army of the dead is on the March. The white walkers are on their way and Tyrian d think I'm crazy think I'm a liar. I know you don't know me. Well, but what do you think about all then tearing says, no, you're definitely not either those things like cool now that that's established. I'm telling you army the dead. It's real thing. They're going to come down to west rose, if they get past the wall, and we're all fighting were toast. Yeah. And you know, hard to do anything with that information. Kind of sounds like a crazy person. The thing is like deniro isn't even going to listen to it because she's like she's so fully team targe Aryan at this point. She's buying her own hype. She's talking about so that's all sounds really interesting, but I have risen against every single odd. I've gone through so much horrible stuff. I've been betrayed. I've been defiled. I've been in exile. I didn't have faith in the gods and myths and legends. I only had faith in myself. And I've done all these incredible things I'm gonna unite the seven kingdoms, and there's really nothing you can do about that John's you'll be ruling over a graveyard if we don't defeat the night king. And I still wanna know how he knows that the night king is called the night king. That ever really happened for us. That's a good question. I'm not sure. Iran. The subtitles gave her the subtitle watched it on HBO go, and yeah, the behind the scenes is there like a legend from the free folk that they passed along. Maybe they heard about it their stories of the night king as as it relates to the book, but it's relatively different than the night. King very different really from the night king that we're seeing on the show unless George Martin has something very interesting up his sleeve in a future book. So I don't know why he would just like no the Nike unless in the universe of game of thrones. We just want to allow that the night king is like the fabled ruler of the white walkers. And now, they're just they're convinced that it's real because they've seen the night king. I guess I'm fine with that. So John is really like. Okay, hurry. We don't have any time. We gotta move this along days. Well, then just bend the knee that only take a second. You just bend the knee. And then we'll let's let's figure this thing out in John's like, my knees are bad in her. It's I should I. There's no reason to to believe her. Yeah. So they can't get on the same page. They can't they keep trying. You know, everybody is like saying thing trying to insert. Davos is like you should listen to John's snow this dude literally died. He literally died for the people. Like, don't really dying on the orient. Yeah. Yeah. So he shuts up to that point eventually is gonna come in and say like, I need to talk to you. It's up something bad happen. We got we got a bus this. All right. So you go to your room, and then John wants to know, am I your prisoner? No, not yet. Not yet. A great line. Okay. All right gestion, very suggestive. All right. So kinky acts, whoa. That's the Justice. Who knows who knows? Okay. Boy, fifty shades of grey joy. Yes. Yes. That's did not have happy ending. No. The trilogy. Yeah. The, you know, the thing what might have been several, but I'm book reader. So Josh, let's talk about what the tar Gary have discovered about what happened to the fleet at things the iron born in the door niche were attacked on route to Dorn a couple of ships escaped the rest of in sunk or captured a Larry in the sand, snakes are dead or captured the gray joys are dead or captured just about all of them. But not quite of them. One gray joy did make it out. And it was the on. And they capture they bring him up onto the deck of great joy ship. And they know what happened. It could tell if Dion had tried to protect your he would have been killed. So if he's alive, then it's because he didn't really fight that's their they're logic. They're making a lot of a sumptiousness. But. Ultimately Shirbow couldn't there have just been like a big explosion on the ship in theon got knocked out in the in the backdraft that I don't know if that's out backdraughts work. Yeah. I think they just know theon reputation of that he's kind of a loser and crave. And yeah, I think that they like the great joys a gospel. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of talk about gray joys in king's landing. If theon is showing up here as a as a real loser than uncle you're on is the of the walk in Yang's landing. Yes. So they have like a whole parade of your on coming down the street with Yara and with a Larrea sand in tying this. The first time anyone's been happy to see you're on. The streets of king's landing. Yeah. He does not present Yara, great joy as a prisoner to serve the correct? I don't think. So I think not sure why she needed to be in the parade and he's just hanging onto her just left her on the ship. She's like his new wreak, which is a scary prospect. Yeah. So he's talking a lot of trash to Yarra as he's walking down the street. Boy, the people in king's landing they are just they're all about their up for going on the streets and just spitting on people throwing filth. And that is like the number one pastime in king's landing. Yeah. Anytime somebody can be publicly shamed. It's the best day in king's landing. I sort of a meta thought as I was watching this, basically is social media the modern day equivalent of this Josh where then famous people get dragged through the street, and then like the, you know. General public can just like spew like vile insults at them. Yeah. Absolutely. So I should get off. So for media and return to our lives. This should just. People through like the public square. Yeah. It's awful. It's awful. I mean, you hit it hit it. Why are we doing what we do? Why are we just going to be Park Rangers or something? I don't know. I never thought you'd never thought about it that we're we factored into this equation. Well, whatever you decide you're taking me with you. So we gotta talk about this thoroughly. We'll talk off line. Okay. Let's go to the red keep and see urine promised a gift for sir c and he has delivered. He's got sand snakes. And again, like the first time anyone's been happy to see San snakes is thrilled. This very good gift when when you're on present them, and he presents them and then like Larry spinning on the floor. She can't quite hit Sirsi. She doesn't quite have the range services. Very happy about this. Your aunt says, there's only one reward he wants. And sir says you'll have what your heart desires once the wall is one. Well, so she's basically saying you're Magai once we once we defeat everybody, you're the you're going to be the dude up on the throne and this'll be great. Yeah. If I'm you're on I think that may be. I think he's being sold abilities here. Yeah. For sure maybe he knows that you know, maybe his whole plan is close to see. And then when it's time to kill her and takeover. He is continuing to bully. Jamie, lancaster. He's really terrible to Jamie. Right right is asking, Jamie. What sir c likes in a? I don't even know the right word. A finger in the bunk ache. I wasn't even gonna I was going to talk about in terms of, sir. Sees preferences. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's got a lot of questions questions for Jamie says now that we're going to be brothers loved to just like to know vice and he he's very crude to Jamie, Jamie wants to kick his butt, but you're on out of there before he can do anything about it. We got a complaint this week. I don't know if you saw it on Twitter. Josh that one of our listeners complained that we don't do enough talk of the sexual stuff that happens on game of thrones. And we're ruining the rewatch for this listener. Really? Yes. What do you want us to say because we yada yada when grey worm and Masan day got together last week. I mean, they had sex, and it was very nice, and I'm thrilled for them. But I mean isn't torn show recap. Apps now, go into vivid detail about everything. Yeah. It was a great moment is was a beautifully acted seeing. It was it was excellent. And I think that it's great character growth for both of those characters. Are we the go-to guys for this? I didn't think so this was a weird complaint. I didn't know. I didn't see it tight filters on Twitter and see. Apologize. Hopefully, I mean, I mean Josh was very descriptive about what you're on said that he wanted. Yeah. I mean, that's what he says on the show. The exact line of dialogue in Casey you need to cover your ears for a minute. The exact line of dialogue. You're on asks asks Jamie does she like it gentle or rough a finger in the bum. That's the question. He asks. Yeah. Jamie doesn't like the question. And then you're on leaves. And that's the end of the scene. That was that good. I don't know. I'm not listen. I'm laying a message to you do idea. Okay. All right. Let's go to the dungeons beneath the red Cape, and we have a Larrea sand and tying and they are tied up. Yeah. They're in a bad way air, they're in bad shape, at the mercy of sir c and the mountain is here in Khyber Nazir, and sir c lives for this stuff. Now, this is this is favorite day, and David she can do something like this is the best day for C, Lancaster, where she really emotionally and psychologically, torture, her enemies. It's not enough to just like kill somebody just to kill them, very slowly and painfully. I don't know who has it worse. These two are septa. This is this is at least on par with what's going on with septa. No, we're gonna monologue about how you know, you, you know, I think about your husband's skull breaking like a cracked duck egg. And it was it was amazing. It was such a great day. And then you killed my daughter, and that was horrible. I still I still think about her. And this is like the rare moment of humanity and inserts that still exists. I felt like when she goes like why did you do that? There's this moment where she looks Larry in the eye, and it seems like you can see like the wounded sir sees still there, and like she almost catches herself. And that's why she's like it doesn't matter. Now, she starts like moving on to the rest of her vengeance scheme. But that's certainly still exists somewhere in there. It's hard to find. Okay. So sir c talking about how she really struggled with how good she kill Larrea sand. How should she kill tying? She. She wrecks her brain. She doesn't sleep. Well, and spends all her time thinking about this. Yeah. This is all that. She's got going on anymore. And this is I think a theme of the Sepah here of you know, being able to imagine or have visions about what you're doing. What your opponents are doing? It comes up a number of times in this episode. Yeah, I think so I think that, you know, not for nothing to episode being called the queen's Justice. It's not just about everything that's going on with generis. But it's also about Queen, sir. See, and this is the Justice that she meets out is this like incredible slow torture that she is she's putting the sand snakes. And so we get that this reveal that, sir. See is going to have a roundabout is going to be fair trade because she is going to then do the same poison that that Alaria did to Marcela. Yeah. And you could kind of tell certainly on the rewatch watch like. He's got like the lipstick on. So I see this coming a little tiny bit. And so she kisses tying and the moment that she kisses in Tien looks at a and we get one last, mama. Yeah. A little bit of a callback to the most recent episode. Why is this poison always administered via lipstick? It's great cinematic -ly. Yeah. I guess so I mean, but that what part of that plan like how did Khyber n- get that? Because he wasn't there. They weren't on the dock with a Larry, I I know this. I'm reading too much into this thing that you you could say that Jamie or Braun they saw a Larrea kiss Mer cell, and then Marcella died, and they could put into together the IS. She probably had the poison lips thing going. Okay. All right since very dangerous to to administer poison the say, this is how poison Ivy used to do it. Yeah. Okay. So. So it should have been wearing rubber lips. Right. Luckily, Khyber n- has the antidote ready to go. And so now Alaria has to not only watch daughter die. But then she has to then watch her decompose. Yeah. It's terrible. I mean, I don't think we'll ever cut to this. You know? Shot and seasoning, hilarious and still hanging on. No. I think that they just like Larry is going to have to watch a horror show unfold for the rest of the her life. What little of it still exists then in our minds. We're going to have to we're gonna have to picture this ourselves, which is terrible. It's almost worse than what they would come up with in terms of the makeup of banks would probably be less frightening than your own mental picture of what services putting Larry through. And I think even if you don't love the door and story line, even if you didn't like the sand, snakes is such a nightmarish way to kill some. This is awful. This is terrible. Yeah. The tough way to go bad way to go. Okay. Josh. Can you talk us through Jamie, and sir see here following? Jamie, and sir. See, okay. So Jamie is in the red keep he's there. He's he's got his his his hand off the hand. He's putting it on the table is going to have a glass of wine because it's the end of the long day in Gali. He's deserved it. He deserves these earned it. It's gonna drink it and services shows up and services just killed some enemies and this really ruthless way just going and she's feeling really good about it. And so she comes in, and she starts kissing, Jamie. And Jamie says, nah, I'm not really in the mood. I was kind of this is just going to be like a solo drink night. And now, we're gonna do it. And so and seriously pushes Jamie onto the bed and gets him gets him naked. And they do they do it. They have sex, and then we see them like a little bit later after they've had sex. I'm sure other things out. But we didn't see it on screen so much like the sand snake death. You could just leave this to the imagination. I mean, the little bit of a yada yada, not not complete blow by blow account of the fan. I didn't see anything. You don't see anything? They don't show you anything. This is the thing. I genuinely didn't. I'm very surprised at this. It is for somebody. I didn't know. I had no idea. I'm sorry January. I'm very sorry. I hate to ruin your rematch. Honestly, I'm not even being sarcastic. Okay. So there's a knock at the door the next morning, James. Oh, we gonna hide come on. Baby McQueen McQueen. Yeah. That's where she's had. She could you know, could I was going to say something, I don't wanna say, but she's she's in she's large in charge, and nobody can come after her. She can't she can't be touched. She the there are no more norms matter shattering, all the norms of the old conventions matter anymore. So incest can be best once again. Okay. She has an appointment. At iron bankers are here from Brian bankers here. Yeah. I'd rather be talking about the sex. Okay. All right. So Tyco from the iron Bank is back. Yeah. Tyco nester who is like probably the most forgettable important issue character and game of thrones important issue. I think might be a little bit of a stretch. Well, he's he's like funding sir sees operations so and he funded stance. So that was fairly important that helped get Stanton up to the far north. It's helping sir. See she's going to be able to take on high garden on this stuff. So he's as a bankroller as a behind the strains behind the scenes per string polar. I think that he is a very important character. But he's just important issue. In terms of like, I don't know like having any kind of like really memorable stuff to do in the show. Yeah. All right. So, sir. See it's been well stab. That the Lancasters are sort of cash poor following no gold left on Castro rock, and so the iron banker Tyco is talking about there's a bit of a dire situation. We know the gold wins wars by, sir. See is trying to get the iron Bank, maybe to put their faith back on the Lancasters a little bit of a back and forth about like who you should be betting on in this war, sir. Sees like I understand like there's reasons to think that deniro star, Gary Scott, this she's got the dragons. That's pretty cool. I've got the narrow see you're on grey joy is loyal to me. Danny's dragons, maybe not as invulnerable as something. I don't know how into archery you are. But I could show you a really cool crossbow that I've gotten my basement, so she's trying to like really sell him on the fact that like if you bet on me your. You're going to get your money's worth. And then some. Yeah. We'll be like all right. That's a fan. Don't get semantics with me Tyco. Yeah. Okay. And so. Sir c reminds Tyco. That genera star Gary and she's a real revolutionary, right? How is that fared with all of her big campaign promises? How how's that going to work with the banking industry? Yeah. Might not be good for for the iron bankers. If star Garin winds, and because I care so little about the iron Bank. I've never really thought about it from that perspective. But as right like, it makes sense Tyco to like, yeah. I probably should bet on, sir. See because even if I bet onto narrates like, she's probably just gonna shut us down, and that will be the outcome before lucky. Right. So that, sir. See is reminding the banker about the, hey, like, I'll keep the establishment. Yeah. I'll keep it status quo. We're going to get rich get rich quick, okay. Here for two weeks in just live it up in king's landing. Go spit on some people on the streets and in two weeks. I'm gonna have all of your money back. Okay. You're making some sense. So we have some more. Good news. Really search is really on a roll. Has a pretty good season seven. Maybe a little rocky at the very end. But even then like, it's mostly pretty good. I didn't know where we really didn't see a path for her coming into season seven. I mean, I guess she does have a lot of people get killed after the hijacking fi garden, but like she gets the money the money makes it through. So that's all she really cares about. Yeah. Okay. Back on dragon stone teary in that. He ends up having a chat with a Jon snow Tyrian was looking for a good place to brood Johnston. Doesn't so much better. Yeah. Just like standing there like a creed album cover just like standing out over and looking looking at the calm sea and thinking about all of his is bad responsibilities back north Tyrian wants to wants to be in this spot. But Jon snow's taking the spot any look so much better doing it is what Tyrian says and John smells like look. You don't understand I kings coming. We're all gonna die Tyrian. More upset about the missing fleet that they lost on the way the Dohrn. This is a pressing issue for Tyrian because Tyrian he also has been under nearest Gary and he believes into start Garin. But everything that he is now living for is to get Danny on the throne, and that's hard ships. It's going to be a challenge. It's going to be a challenge. John calls out Tyrian. You don't believe in the night king? You said that there were grump gins and snark, remember? Yeah. Grump -ken Grumkas snark is a great name for a game of thrones podcast. If that's not already taken. Yeah. If somebody hasn't done that they should really go out and do it. I really don't know. I think that's a good one thing. So yeah, they'd be good. Okay. A very grumpy snarky rewatch of game of thrones. I think it'd be good. Okay. Ear for it. But I think somebody else should be tearing little patronizing. He's like, I do believe you. I do believe you. Yeah. You're not span. Yeah. And he had already you know, he'd heard from once upon a while he had heard from Lord more Mont and the rest of the night's watch. They had sent word about what had happened with the white at the castle. Black the fully the first time Tyrian is hearing about this. It just wasn't really didn't seem like a now issue back when Tyrian was working for his family. And now that John snow is here. And he's talking about the severity of what's going on durian buys it. Okay. So Danny is going to meet up with Tyrian because teary and said that he'll help John out in some way. And that way is the drag in glass. Hey, danny. Let's just let him do whatever needs to do in those dragging glass mind, you didn't care about this. Wasn't this half? The reason why John came in the first place. Yeah. He didn't really bring it up. Maybe he was waiting for the right time in this negotiation. She's got dragons she's got dragging glass that was like what he said. He's like, I gotta go. And check that out. Why didn't he why didn't he bring up the dragon glass sooner? But he's he's bringing it up. Now, he's got ally interior. I mean from negotiation standpoint things were not going well, and so I think that if he brings it up, then I think she's likely say, no, no, I'm not giving you that. But this was like an OB the way, and maybe that's sort of like helped his stance because he didn't seem desperate for it. So he's he's brought it up with Tyrian now interior bringing up with generis and even right now to narrow so annoyed with John snow that she's not super excited at the prospect. But she's she's willing to at least listen to Tyrian considering Tyrian is her hand. And so the Narus is asking Tyrian, what do you think about this army the dead? You think that's real? And Tyrian hopes not. But you know, you shouldn't, you know, just believe something because you hope that it's not real. The wise man said that once too narrow said, which is mandatory, I don't know remember. So you passing off your own votes. Are you re tweeting yourself again, tearing that's exactly what no no. He's re tweeting his throw a account. Earner accounts for account. Come on give them the trag glass. Give them something by giving them nothing. It's fine. Yeah. Fine. It's you know, it's better than nothing and it keeps them occupied. While we folks at the task at hand. And so Naro seems now at this point like, okay, let seems fair enough. Hey by Tyrian. She sure that thing that Dabo said about Johnstone like killed wasn't that strange weird. Yeah. Now. It's boring north you got to allow them their flights of fancy. Okay. So deniro's is going to then seek out John and they're going to have a conversation. Looking at the dragons, and John is is very impressed with the dragons and she named them for her brothers the Sarasin Reagan both gone now. Yeah. Yeah. John's like really into the dragons like the way that like a five year old is really into like toy trucks is like what John is like when he's around the dragons. He's really big big van. And when he finds out from deniro that she lost her brothers. John can relate knows what it's like to also really any also can relate that my father's name is Reagan also, no he doesn't know he doesn't know another. Okay. So weird because your brothers. My dad. So Jon snow has lost two brothers that in common. They've got. They've got that in common. So John is gonna is going to a lot of the same relatives in all Senate common family tree. That's just kind of wrapped up together. Devine's John wants to know, what do you think about the dragon glass thing is that reasonable enough? Generis says like okay, listen, I'm not gonna let stand the iron throne. I haven't changed my mind about which kingdoms belong to the throne Johnston hasn't changed his mind about that. Either. Nonetheless, regardless deniro's, going to allow John to mind the dragon glass and forge weapons from it. Very good news. Yeah. And John ASA. Well, then to do you believe me now? Get to your dragon glass buddy thinking about it. Which me, okay. We go back to winter fell and Sansa is in charge. And she's calling a lot of shots at winter fell. She's shot. Con winter foul, she's taking meetings with with a few people the way Scott little finger. There's got fricking yawn ROY sang out. Yeah. Yon ROY says now become like a Santa's like a little errand boy intern. Is there leather on those breastplates leather on this? I'll see to it at once. Yeah. This is a good faith for yon rice. As far as I'm concerned ten having ten to the leather on the breastplates yon Royce away. I don't even I don't even hate yon Roy's, I just I just do like how he's constantly putting his nose where does it belong? Why is he still here? Even it. Why is he such a big deal at winter? I know he's a big deal in the in the area. But he's like he's like second in command paid him for like, ten episodes and nothing to do with them. He has the best name yon, ROY great name. Okay. So starting to turn around on yon, ROY cion Rice's now my favorite character from a couple of minutes ago for a couple of seconds ago. Yeah. All right. So Santa she's giving everybody orders and little fingers. Like, wow, you were meant for command. Man, suits you. It's well God that already. You're the you're the best. You're the best at this. Have I told you lately that I love you, and they know little finger. He's trying to do is little finger thing here where he's really once again just trying to put the bug in Santa's ear about why she should be in charge, and blah, blah, blah, anything he can do to make that image of the two of them together on the throne happ. Well, he's just pissing her off more because he's like, an let's not forget about, sir. See because I know her better than like. Oh, no. Oh my God. No. You don't. Yeah. I know I know her better. She killed my mom being away from me and little finger is trying to say to her like look that just got to think about all the possibilities. Think about everything. Here's a good line. I think this was in the trailer for the season where he's I don't find in the north or south five every battle everywhere. I always remind everyone is your enemy. Everyone is your friend every possible series of events is happening all at once live that way. And nothing will surprise you everything that happens will be something that you've seen. We'll figure it does really practice. What he preaches? I don't think based on the season. I I'm coming around on it to a certain degree. I think once you once you do come to from the perspective like little finger does not have it off figured out. He makes them really solid bets. He's kind of terrible person. And so a lot of the time the terrible things do pan out in his favor. But he's not like the all knowing master manip-. And him. Underestimating this person who he thinks he has under his thumb is going to be the thing that undock him. I'm not mad at it. I'm not terribly mad at it. I think that it makes sense. I think for him to feel like he is right about this that he's got the highest opinion of himself. I think that's like the trick to little finger. Nobody is a bigger little finger fan than little finger. Okay. Santa is interrupted somebody's at the gate. Yeah. And we were in for another stark family reunion as Lord Brandon has returned. Okay. Brand. Stark is back not a super emotional reunion of Sanson brand really on either side. No. Because brand is you know, he's got all the three eyed raven powers now and is attempted right? Really does play him in this very detached way. Yes. In in season is very Email. And it was it was it was I think I don't know if it was the actors choice, or if it was a directing choice, they probably somewhere in between. But it is. It's a real sudden shift even from season six when there are some moments where when brand when Brandon mirrow leave Benjamin when Benjamin goes away and brand like Jack's back into the we're would tree to to download some more in town. He's alre-. Downloaded all this stuff from the three eyed raven on the ride he's still kind of talking with emotion. But now throughout the rest of the season, he's just very removed. It's hard to know exactly why that shift occurred, and well, maybe he's traveling so much through space and time, and he's really overwhelm. He's seen some stuff. He sees himself. And he'll tell Santa about what he has seen at the old. We're would tree. Yeah. She's I was John was here. And he goes, yes, I need to speak to him. Yeah. And census like well. You're going to be Laura winter fell now brand we're also all waiting for brand to speak to John. That would be great says I can never be the kid. Me I'm the three eyed raven now. What what does that mean? He's like it's hard to explain you wouldn't get it. I could see. Yeah. But he's seen everything including Santa talks about how she's been through a lot too. And he's like, I'm very sorry about everything that happened to you. I was there. I saw that night on your what on your wedding night. Senses. Like, I need to leave. It's kinda creepy. Brands talking about how she looks so beautiful on her wedding night. And that just makes you kind of uncomfortable, especially because that night was a bad one for Santa first of many bad days and nights to come when she was married to Ramsay Bolton. So I'm sure she's not appreciating being reminded of it. But isn't it weird that Sansa just leaves poor crippled brand at the we're would tree by himself in the middle of winter. Like, how's he getting back? Well, I mean, maybe she's just giving her brother more credit. You know, he's survived everything that he's to get back here. The first place you can make it back into the castle. He's ten he seems like he's got this. Maybe she's gonna just tell someone can you pick up brand yon yon. Hey. Hey. From the winwood tree pick up whereas little finger. Okay. I'll be right on that. He's got. He's got things. He wants every Aaron that sense tells you to come every article of clothing. Okay. Let's go back to the citadel. And we have our arch Maistre e Brose. He is inspecting Giora more Mont he's poking around and looking at the remnants of what has been picked off him. And it seems like like Sam has done the trick. And so he asks Giora if it hurts says it hurts a little bit. But a lot less than before and Brose thinks that the infection is no longer active, which to me is shocking considering what we saw of the operation of the removal scale, and according to the arch Maistre Giora more Mont was going to be leaving after one night. So is this the next day? I'm not sure, but they really give Giora like a clean Bill of health real quick like, well, I don't see any more gray scale. But maybe. We should keep you here for survey shin for another couple of days. I loved your more Mont do not get me wrong. Don't get it. Twisted as more Mont, an unsung hero in game of thrones. Or at least not sung about enough. Great character. Great actor has had some phenomenal scenes along the way. But there is this strange plot armor around your more month that I'm not sure I fully understand like the fact that he is going to be able to lick the gray scale things so quickly. Like, the gray scale. Don't like the grease. That's all he's going to get rid of it so fast. What's he comes into contact with Sam? And the fact that he's going to make it to the big episode beyond the wall, and he's going to survive there. What are they waiting for? What is Joris purpose in this thing very hard for me to factor into the end game. You just feels like a character that. There's a lot of reasons to think that he's not going to survive. He's one of those characters that could very easily like sacrifice himself for some greater good. He would my lad -ly die for the cause. Dying to die for the cause. Yeah. He he. He would hop on the grenade to save everybody from Chucky plan in child's play Danny from you know, from anything you do it though for sure. And they removed his gray scale, and they had him survive beyond the wall, which I was really sure that would be the spot. And so, you know, we're jumping ahead a little bit. But through the seven season finale, he still alive, and it may kind of makes me wonder like German is going to survive game of thrones. You think so I mean like would they have removed his gray scale, otherwise he's got to take a bullet for Danny? This was all for just just to clean them up a little bit more. So he could be back in Danny's good graces before that happened. Maybe I guess, I don't know. I mean when was it season five that he got the gray scale? And I know that that was somebody else's story in the book is it possible that they that they gave him that as a story line. But then there was like this was a mistake. Yeah. I don't think that's impossible. I mean, look if all we got out of it was the scene where Sam is operating on a more month for a maximum squeamish value. I'm glad that that exists on game of thrones. So gross. And it's such an excellent job by the make up department in the special effects seem. But just in terms of the plot. I guess I I don't understand why we went through all of this. Okay. All right. So Josh Weedon see uh Sam is going to be getting a handshake from Jura Santa's very confident in his work. Yeah. We'll Sam is a very confident guide these days. Yeah. I thought it was weird. Also in the last supper sewed that Giora was like writing a letter to dinars and like wasn't wearing gloves or anything. I'm like, dude, you're going to send your gray scale to the Khalidi own man. Yeah. It's like a sign real easy with that. Okay. But yeah, they're so. Confident in he's totally cured Sam shakes his hand. Yeah. So he sends Giora back out into the into the Univer free to go. He's free to go. Yeah. Can seem. So so rushed. But so Sam feels like he's going to hear it from arch Maistre e pros. Yeah. In the arch macer is very impressed with SAM's skills that he read a book and following instructions. And that was that he says that man is alive because if you should be proud and Sam is proud. He's very proud. But if Sam thought he was going to get a promotion for this in for something else. Come on knock it off goalless start transcribing all the man, you scripts and watch out for the paper mites because they bite. I mean, I guess at this is a better job than what he had been doing before. Now, at least he has access to books, you know, it's a it's a crappy job, but it's not us crappy last crappy job. That was that was definitely on every level more crappy. Yes. Okay. All right. Let's talk about our big battle sequence that we're going to get into here in this episode. So we're going to we're going to see everybody is at dragon stone, and they're at the table at the war table, and they're talking about how they're going to start invading Castro rock pretty soon. This is really well done. I really did. Appreciate this. I feel I enjoyed this more than a lot of the other battle sequences that we get on game of thrones talk me through it. Tell me why. I just like that the the the narration the battle sequences they go on for a long time. And I feel that you start to get a little numb to it. After a couple of minutes of the fighting where I really like Tyrian. I mean, the Dinkas great he talks us through it this twists and turns. And I don't need to. See fifteen minutes of the unsullied fighting random Lancaster's. I really liked how they gave us the important details. Kept the main characters part of it. And then the big twist on the end of how the Lancasters outfox them. Yeah. I like it more on a reward than I did at the time. I think it was pretty bored by it at the time felt it was anticlimactic because it's the first time we're seeing Casserly rock, and we get through it relatively quickly. I think on second watch. I think it's it improves for me because we know that there's going to be some really fun battle sequences coming up after this episode. And also just this episode in general is filled with so much. Great stuff. There's just so many great scenes almost every single scene before this is a a+ seen. So there's already been so much happening in this one hour that has been really enjoyable to watch. And you're right. I think to have sort of this unusually structured at least as far as game of thrones is concerned battle sequence. Hell. Helps out a lot. It's fun. And even though it doesn't work out the way tearing envisioned it it is a great monologue from from from the Dink is he's talking about how my father built our house up from ruined. He built the army built casually rock, but he didn't build the sewers that was a job that was beneath him speaking of crappy jobs, so he gave the job to Tyrian. And so tearing knows the sewers, and so he can sneak people in that way, and that ends up being the key to to conquering Castro Iraq. But the other piece of it is that there's not much to conquer because sir c Lancaster has anticipated some conflict Casserly rack, okay? It's a great rope. Adoped that we go on because it feels like, okay? We've got them right where we want. And then we have grey worm. Ultimately, say, hey, where's everybody else? Shouldn't every more? Where is everybody? And then here comes your on great joy from behind. And they're going to take out the rest of the ships fleet. Yeah. So that's tough stuff for the team deniro's taking another defeat. Yeah. It's not been a great rival to west rose so far. Yeah. Meanwhile, we see then the land army where they are. And they're in hargarten, Dr Bernard upper. Yeah, it's a real triumphant reins of cast Amir that's playing as Jamie rolls up on high guard, and he's got brawn with him. I bronze sighting of the season. He's got the taro's into. And he is he's conquered high guarded and high garden is sitting on all this money. So all this money is going to get back to, sir. See and it's going to get back to the iron Bank. So decent bet made by Tyco. He doesn't make belts doesn't make real takeaway. Okay. I love the shots of Jamie walkings through high garden. Yeah. How just like editing around his his journey from? Mike walking through the gates getting into the room with a lenna. And it's all like the same shot of just over the shoulder. Nikolai Costra WALDO, I love that. That's one of my favorite sequences of the episode. I love this scene with Jamie and the lady Alanna sell much. It's great. It's great because it's true to to lady Elena and a really a really solid way of writing her off the show where she doesn't get to go out completely on her own terms. But if she's going to go out, she's going to have the last laugh, and the fact that she is able to go out opposite a Lancaster where even if sir see is not in the room, sir. Sees very much in the room, theoretically, like, she's the she's the main topic of conversation. So I think that they did a really good job of closing at this character. And I think it's instructive hopefully for how some of these character arcs might close out in the final season is like just in a way. That's that doesn't quite meet what your expectations were. But when. Look at the scene from a couple of steps back that connects to this this connects to that that makes a lot of sense. I love the way that they write up lady. Yeah. Her final scene is a great one to. It's just so good. It's so good where she and Jamie or just, you know, she's never really traded wits with Jamie, Lancaster, he's not as good at it as his other siblings. But it's it's still it's it's great because it's cutting to the core of Jamie. It's getting Jamie himself to probably internally question. Some of the things that's going to lead him to leave by the end of the season where she's talking she's talking about how like you really do. Love your sister. You really are an attic. I loved when she asked him. Did we fight? Well. As well. As can be expected. It's okay. It was fine. Golden rose. What do we know about that? But I just I I love the so many twists and turns that this takes where she's like, she's ready to you know. Let's get into this. Like, let's talk about your relationship Thursay. Yeah. Yeah. Because if she's going to go, then at least, she can she can she can maybe try and impart some advice, and maybe maybe do either some damage here, or at least change a harder mind or two. I loved it. When she asks about the sword. Hayes. It wasn't that Joffrey or what did he call it? We does wailing. Oh, yeah. He really was a c word. Yeah. Yeah. Just say that in front of who she knows is. Others just it's it's intense. Yeah. But she talks about her regret. Also, the thing about survey was you know, I I never imagined that she would go to the lengths that she went. That was my failure failure of imagination. I think is just such a great turn of phrase and absolutely right. Like, I mean, I think all along the way through the journey of game of thrones. Even we as an audience often shared the view of so many people in the world. It's just kind of underestimating if she'll never be able to pull anything off and she pulls off the biggest mass execution of any main character in the show in the bay or attack and everything that's happening. Now is pretty ridiculous. Well, so I for Atlanta to articulate that. I love the way that she says. And she says, you know, she's a monster and Jamie's trying to justify that. Like, do you think that anyone like once we are rare? Raining peacefully over the seven realms any gonna be wringing their hands over the way. We got there. You get the sense, even Jamie. Like does he really by what he's trying to sell here? When Jamie ends up leaving, sir. See at the end of seasons of do you think that this conversation is weighing on him? I would imagine that you know, there's a certain element where he has to be recognizing the horrors that, sir. See is capable of. I think there's that moment of recognition even in the end of season six when he comes back from the river lands where he sees around the throne. So I think it's something that's on his mind, but something he doesn't wanna face and between this moment with lady lenna. I think that's going to help him get there. But I think once he sees the proof positive of the white Walker threat at the end of the season and to see that even in the face of that is going to turn away. I think for a guy like him who killed a king? But only did it because it was going to save tons of lives for a guy like Jamie, it's inexcusable at that point. So I think that this. Helps him for sure. I don't know if it's the the biggest part of it by think that without this conversation with lady Leno. He's gonna have a harder time getting to the point. I think somebody as like straightforward as lady lenna just giving you the straight talk in a moment where there's really nothing left to lose. She's already lost. I feel like these words are going to echo in your head after that. And so Jamie is going to reveal the plan to lady Lennon. How's it gonna go has just vile poison? Did they get on board with this? I don't know. He he he says he talked her out of all of these different terrible ways to kill lady. Atlanta, not sound like the see. I know, you know, they may be after a while like I just wanted to get Jamie out of the room. Yeah. Okay. So the vial of poison takes it instantly. She drinks it. Yeah. I know pain. It's going to be easy. But then she lives Jane leaves Jamie with some some painful closing remarks. Yes. And she says that she would hate to go out the way that Joffrey did the Joff. Yeah. She takes responsibility for for the for the purple wedding where she says like I'm glad this poison isn't painful, I'd hate to die like your son horrible day. That was not at all what I intended. I never seen the boys in work before in Jamie's just like quaking with rage and lady lettuces tell seriously. I wanted to know it was me. He never does. No. He what's her? No does he. I don't remember that. Take it just doesn't kill them. That's an improvement in mood. Yeah. So does the title the queen's Justice possibly refer to the Queen of thorns? Is there an interpretation of that? Yeah. I think you just interpreted it that would require. Episode generis and the Queen of thorns rest in peace such a great character. Diana Rigg as this character is one of the best truly wanted. There's so many great characters on this show. This is one of them really really top notch. She's she's one of my all time favorites, I feel like it doesn't have a bad scene. I'm sad that she's gone. I think that they wrote her out perfectly. You know? There's only a few episodes left to go. You gotta start writing some of these people out the only thing we can ask for that. They get written out as well as the Queen of thorns. Yeah. I think this few characters on the show that you could say that that they don't have a dud scene or plotline along the way. Yeah. She brings it everytime. She's on. She really did really. She even made like she has the best high Spero scene. Aside from the one where he dies, but like outside of that like she has the best one. Yeah. Okay. And that is the queen's dresses. All right. So we are we are on tap for for some battle in next week's episode the spoils of war halfway marking seasons. Yeah. We're getting through it. We're cutting through next episode is going to be the loot train battle not the loot. Crate battle. We're going to see all that aria is going to return to winter fell. There's going to be more shenanigans on dragon stone. John snow is going to see theon for the first time in a long time. If I remember, right. Yeah. It's all happening. Yep. They'll happen closing in on the season seven finale and the ultimate return again. What's that return date? Josh April fourteenth fourteenth Martin challenge marker on my calendar. Okay. Of course, you could follow everything that. Joshua's doing over a ta char dot com slash game of thrones of final season teaser hints at a happy ending. Yeah. Happy ending for game of thrones. I think for for aria stark. I think that there's. You know, I've been I've had grim predictions about Arias stark. And you'll read the article I think that there's like maybe a potentially a positive spin on what we see from her seeing dragon in in this little spot. Listen, I'm really I'm trying to do it. I can't hear okay? Potentially REO will fly off into the sunset on a drag at the end of game of thrones. That's the final shock. I mean, come on. That's west of west coast. Let's find out. Yeah. And then they play like drogue on they play the never ending story on. Yeah. Same. The no one. Yes. That game of thrones collectible series brings winter to baseball. Don't ask me about that one. Talk about that record. All right. Find out. Let's tease. Okay. All right. Follow Josh Wigley on Twitter at round Howard. I'm at robs a studio. We've got great coverage of a season nine of the Walking Dead continuing. Plus coverage of Star Trek discovery of at post show. Recaps dot com. Hope you have a good one. We'll talk to you next time to get a good one. I.

John Gary Scott Jon snow Tyrian John snow Josh Josh Danny Jon snow Jamie deniro Tyrians Lancasters Tyrian King dragon stone Larry spinning HBO Sansa Sam John snow
S8E5: The Bells | Game of Thrones

Binge Mode

2:28:59 hr | 2 years ago

S8E5: The Bells | Game of Thrones

"The binge mode is presented by Bud Light Bud Light is all about bringing together. We're wondering which on likely pairs team up the season seeing so many old friends in new come together Francis. This past episode. We saw two brothers. Get back together, sir Gregor the mountain and the hound, reunited, again after all these years the final embrace the tower it was beautiful Bud Light is reminding you to enjoy responsibly Twenty-one enough. Today's been tremendous also brought to you by the all new BMW three series. Don't be driven by technology. Never driving. The all new BMW three series is available with the latest BMW innovations what you'll love about this vehicle can't be listener explained words, it has to be felt on the road. Kind of, like, how are you felt at the end of the episode when she mounted that pale mayor? So hurry into your local BMW center today and test drive the all new BMW three series for yourself. The all new BMW three series. Don't be driven by technology driving the w the Altman driving machine. Come in. Nothing binge mode contains adult content. Try get an extra coating. I think they're watching me. Who the producers? Of course they are. That's their job. What if I told you many at binge mode? Also contain spoilers go. Have been missing you in the kitchen and now binge mood. What would happen if you told you system don't want it? And that's what I told him. She trains you trust. Cooper says, much as I did. This is victory for her. Notion is what happens when people hit the truth about. From people in west Ross. Love here than of me. I don't have love him. I only have fear. Yeah. And welcome. Proudly part of the ringer podcast network. Mallory Ruben executive editor of the ringer dot com. One of the greater websites if not the greatest. Joining me today now that he's finished tiptoeing best. The mountain the hound guy burns carbs. He's me, excuse me, fellas. I gotta use the bathroom. It's a ringer senior, creative, your Maistre. Jason Concepcion mail. He was not even a Maistre people forget this about him. He was he was detained but he wasn't essential part of Benjamin gave the thrones. We hope that, like Khyber new subscribe to this podcast on apple podcasts. Stitcher Spotify or wherever you get them. And please raise views, seven pointed star reading five stars binge mode, reviews. Also follow us on Twitter and Instagram at binge underscore mode, aka the underscored and join our Facebook group, which is only for Benjamin fans, which is an excellent place to commiserate with people who named a loved one or got that tattoo of their dreams and please heads. The ringer dot com slash shop to check out our brand new binge mood merged not fire retarded, but also very fashionable and go ahead and join us at the third annual Khanna thrones was coming to Nashville. Hennessy this summer July twelfth to fourteenth. Seventy guests include Nikolai cost are WALDO aka Jamie, the dirtbag, Lancaster, John, Bradley, aka Sam well taller, early and Hannah Murray aka Gilly with more coming soon full weekend day passes and special Valerian passes are available now it comes from inside net. So get your passes now come race to the dinghy with us a dinghy last time. I'm Benjamin, we explored have choice shaped the last of the stocks the fourth episode of season, eight a game of thrones. And today dive in deep, he endeavoured five after you listen to this. Be sure to check out all of the other thrones offerings on various ringer platforms, including talk, the thrones with us. Chris Ryan live on Twitter, right after the east coast during a game. Thrones ends on Sunday nights and next week. We will also have a Thursday series wrap show for you as always speculation in spoiler warning for today's pod. We will be going deep deep on details from the show and. In the books alike, from this episode in this season in all the came before it. So mount your ash horse because it's time to break down season. Eight episode five the bills. Now. Seriously, once called me, the stupidest podcasters, let's smarten up by offering a brief professor what actually happened in the bells by taking a quick trip, down, our very own gig wrote after Masan Di's death. The prior episode Danny's wall herself off, dragon stone, not seeing her visor. She isn't eating faces grown gone. Her hair's grown unkempt. Also on the island Varis, is obviously trying to poison Danny, and it's also writing letters to other west Rosie leaders revealing the truth of John's parentage China arrives on dragon stone and various fronts him trying to get him to press his claim for the throne. John resists reaffirming again. The Danny is his Queen despite the spiders warnings about the target area tendency towards madness Tyrian goes to Danny tells her about various a scheme. She has green room arrest the master of whisperers from his chamber and sentences him to die. She intones. Jakarta's. Andro on crisps. The spider bells for various, give us whispers for various. Danny also talks with John because she's just as upset with him. She's with various she warned him. But what would happen if he told sonza, and he, of course, did not listen when she tries to kiss him he pulls away and she declares that she will now rule through fear rather than love. Meanwhile, Jamie has been captured by the unsullied trying to break through to king's landing bacteria tricks the guards outside his tent into letting him see his brother the to share emotional conversation, which tearing reflects on how Jamie was the only person ever to believe in him, and he arranges a smuggling plan with Davos telling Jamie, that, if he can convince Percy to flee dinghy will be waiting for them to take them safely across the narrow sea. Depend to us as battle approaches Tyrian organizes a plan to save a million plus residents of king's landing if sir Syed surrendered and rang the bells, generis, John would call off their attack and spare the city, checkoffs bell, south the next morning, both sides prepare their forces, sir, c ushers more small folk into. The red keep to police innocence between her and deniro's just before the gates closed Oreo in the hound sneak in, but Jamie, misses out sway waving his golden hand and has to take the long way around to the castle. Then the last war begins riding drug on with a fury dania next some new and successful battle taxes that Ray gall. Unfortunately, never learned the pair destroys the iron fleet without any trouble from urine scorpions and sets off to remove the city's defenses bells for bigger crossbows. They her useless in the end. Speaking of useless outside the city walls, the golden company forms rank as the combined northern and eastern forces look on, but the cell swords seem unprepared for the one thing they knew they would be facing a dragon. Unbelievable. The wall lasts apart behind them, Danny cleaning a hole in their defensive structure in her assembled soldiers. Short grey, worm cuts down. Harry Strickland bells. Do even have to do it. She just have an elephant relevance. If sound for Harry Strickland. With an unopposed dragon flying overhead and seemingly unstoppable. Forces assaulting the city on the ground. The king's landing townsfolk, call for a ceasefire and begin ringing the bells. The land is our soldiers lay down their arms, and Danny lands drug on, on a parapet as for enemies, surrender bells for the bells own because as Danny gazes at the right keep her eyes heart into steel, and she takes flight on-drove on once more ignoring the sound of surrender. She urges her dragon onward and burns the city innocence in all. Guess what? We'll be talking about on today's podcast folks. Great worm takes Danny's. Continued. Fight is a signal. Slaughters defenseless Lancaster soldier who had already dropped his sword, the unsullied, doth Raqi in north man, all charge despite John's police to stop as a city descends into chaos are in the hound reached the castles, map room where the hound tells aria to soften her focus on Vince less. She end up like him she agrees. Thanks at leaves the castle hound finds the. Mountainous courting, sir seeing that. Tomatoes, hold est- no safer place. Then make Worsfold fest. I was pretty soon. It usually is pretty safe, which Khyber and thinks safer than the right. Keep, but when order to forget about his brother in stay by side, the mountain disobeys, he grabs his creator, by the throat smashes his head against a wall, and then hurls him against the rocks of healing him in an instant bells. It's not even a Maistre, but he's the greatest scientist in western else. Let's get the Nobel prize for my guy burn. And then the mountain and the hound fight, and we get the clip gain bowl carbon did his job. Well, because the mountain cannot die so Sandra tackles him off the side of the tower into the fiery depths below bells for sand Orkla gain. Yes, chickens, for the hound may he every fucking chicken heaven. The mountains dead already anyway. Fuck fuck them. Honestly bells for house gain. Yeah. Meanwhile, Jimmy makes his way to a small cove, area that contains a secret passageway into the right. Keep problem you're on who do out of the way of dragging. Fire has managed to swim. Ashore to the exact spot where his nemesis awaits, servcies, two lovers Spar, and though, you're on stabs the king slayer multiple times, Jamie, then, manages to impale your with a sword and leaves him to boast and die. Gimme the sound of someone applying eyeliner and putting on leather pants for your on gradually. Get the sound of a finger in a but. The sound of a finger poppin out of a but. Jamie later finds sir seeing the map room and the two reunite. As in tears says she wants the baby to live. He leads them to the dungeon where a path to the dinghy should wait. But rebel from Danny's continued. Fly bys blocks insurance is the castle collapses around them. The two siblings slash lovers. Hold each other close, Jamie says nothing else. Matches sides them bells for Jamie else researchy things they did for love were often terrible. But let's hear those bells. There's some lion roars. Here's some tower sex. Let's get some wine pouring into a goblet. Outside the castle. King's landing is burning and John despairs as he sees his allies. Commit hideous crimes. He even begins fighting against his own soldiers to try to stop them from committing this carnage. REO winds her way out from the castle in his nearly killed several times as she sees the destruction and death of the city's common folk firsthand the episode ends. She finds a lone white horse approaches it managed to mounted and flees Jason. Yeah. Next time you fail me will be the last time you fail me. Wow. That gets us to this episode's big idea. So let's cut right to the core of it by sticking with the pointy end. The defining theme of this episode is harder. Deniro's targeting Ian Queen of the ashes, we're gonna spend a good chunk of today's show talking about deniro star gear Ian or. Yeah. Before we get to the carnage in king's landing. Let's start on dragon stone. Barris spry Utah. Spike. Archive guy opens this episode writing letters to the lords of the realm. Yeah. Revealing the truth. John's parentage, when various told Tyrian last episode that John's parentage wasn't a secret anymore with eight, people knowing it, rather just information at that point, he went ahead and worked damn hard to ensure that, that was going to be getting that information out there. He is. Also, by the way, literally trying to kill Danny. It's very tough stuff, which is important to note Martha a little bird, who various has working in the dragon soon kitchen. Here's Thirdly innocence. I it is about innocence innocent, Martha enters this chambers, and the following exchange ensues, she wouldn't eat Martha says Barras banging his rings on the table. Meditating. What's he say we'll try again at supper? There's only one way to interpret that he's not trying to nourish Danny not at all he's trying to her. That was, honestly, the most likely subtle part of this episode other characters on the show, have killed those who serve them conspiring against end or trying to kill them. John, of course, executed the men who tried to assassinate him a hung a boy younger than Braga than Brown. We're sick. Brian. Okay, Jonah's just like did you want soup or not? Do you want soup for you on bravely your soup or no? Tyrian killed Taiwian two crossbow shots to the gut for numerous crimes including sentencing him to death while knowing that he was innocent of the crimes for which he was charged. Rob executed Ricard card stark for defying him by killing the Lancaster hostages on on those goes Danny is absolutely justified. And he has a little justified in killing various, there is no ruler in game of thrones, who would have not done what Danny did correct. It's treason. He's trying to poison her. The mere fact of his death isn't an issue for the subtleties of it are in. That's we'll get to the minute before his death. He makes a pitch directly to John, which is like just out in the open on the sand. Like, are you just trying to get killed? They say every time until Garrity and his ball, and the guns for the coin in the rim homes. It's breath. It's a callback to align. We here in the previously on targe madness montage, something, sir. He said deterioration in. Season to another primer for what's to come with Danny. But in terms of its effectiveness as an appeal to John. It is absolutely useless. Yeah. He's too stubborn to loyal to be swayed in this fashion when John tells Farris, that the decision is hers to make because she is Queen. That's right. That's up there with looked in the eyes and is hunger. Boy hunter than brands his uncle. Go to John. Do you all my Queen? She is Queen John weekend at various pull the Tyrian and quotes himself scrape. He says, men decide where powers is whether or not they know it. And this is another call back in this case to his iconic speech to Tyrian and season to the answer to the riddle that he posed about the cell sword. Power resides were men. Believe it resides. He said at the time to trick shadow on the wall in a very small man can cast a very large shadow now, thrones has been exceedingly self-referential of lady. This is the second episode in a row that cited this particular line. Tyrian reference, it lasts episode to remember when he was talking to Bron. We binge road has called upon this line. Many, many times these it has always felt like one of the shows signature obscene this. Yes. Sunday, signature theme. That's right. Here, though it kinda just serves to remind us how far off their games Varis in. Syrian both are from where they were when they first shared that exchange. I mean we've been saying it for a little while now but it's like now various is writing letters. I would really have loved the scene, where viruses writing letters to the lords of the room saying, hey to narrow, the rightful Queen is here, sir. See is weak. Nobody likes her and all her children are born of incest. Switch over to our side and raise you up as Lord and lady of whatever who was doing. That was anyone doing that. Listen, we don't know what his pen pal exchanges like with the new prince of Dohrn, who. Who the peo- the peo- d? Can say the pod, where are you the various who said that a season two was the various who had been operating in the margins using Ilia Giora his network of little birds to try and control the realm, this various is going straight to the person wild and being like, hey, let's overthrow dating wild saying, I have known more kings, and queens in any man, living with the crowds and see what they do in the shadows. I thought that this is on however horrible what I tell you now is true. Rule was Lii, and well while she this is the guy by the way, who served man came king, Robert Joffrey. Yes. Tom and Danny and is now saying you know what? She's a worst of all of them get at here by are you crazy? It's ludicrous. It really is. And think about the equivalent of him going directly to the Sarah's run saying, let's talk about this instead of using a Leary. Oh, as a go-between instead of conspiring in a way that fostered this reputation. He had no subtlety among viewers as a real operator, not to mention to your point just now about comparing. Dan, do those other rulers the rulers that he just boasted to John? Terrible, and I see it at all. We still don't really understand up to the moment of his death. What changed for barris as far as Wendy goes? If thing from the man remember, who pushes Tyrian to go find any when they're at liras Manson Pinto's in here in is completely without hope. Yeah, absolutely drawning. He's got his own feces under his fingernails from pushing it through the hole. And yet grabs a wine, goblet just guzzles vomited everywhere. He's a mess embarrasses. I got the one person for you. The one person who's really worth believing in, in rallying behind Danny had given all of us reasons to say, which, again, we're going to outline at length shortly. But in the time has actually been with her. She's acted often, quite so. Blissfully putting her own war against Hersi on hold so that she could go help, John go help the north go help the living and the post long night, toast about how they couldn't have done it without the dragon Queen was correct. They couldn't. And it's like none of that happened, and like something else happened. Instead, it's just so hard to reconcile the moment, the actual timeframe in which various is shift occurred. Not the fact that it did. But the way in which it did in the time in which it did with the reality of his prior stance and Danny's prior persona. He's not flipping on her after what she did following the bells tolling. He's actually part of a causes her response to them because it's one more betrayal. What's more various himself, had promised fire and blood? Yes. In the season six finale when he United the mortels in the Tyrol's brought Dorn and the reach today's 'cause he truly believes that John seems better. Dipped to rule. And granted John was not on his radar before this, and certainly not as Egon various once told Ned that he serves the realm the random. Someone must he told Danny the same telling her in the later touring that he fights for the people that so many others. Forget the people Danny claimed she cared about. I would just hastened at once again. What exactly is the evidence that he has ever fought for these people? He served again, the mad king, Robert Joffrey and Tomen and was not out there. Like, hey can we lessen the taxes on the peasants? Or can we do? He's just like trying to install another ruler. Tell me exactly how you are. Quote out here. Trying to save the realm, Madhu d-. Yeah. Would he have padded himself on the back if he had actually helped installed the Sarah's target Ryan? I know iron thrown like that would have gone. Well, yeah. That was your big swing dude. We can't help but recall one of the stories most iconic exchanges between various little finger season, through the realm of Los do you know what the round is tell me it's the thousand blades vegans enemies, a store? We agree to tell each other over and over until we forget that it's a lie. But what do we have left? Once we abandoned the like chaos gaping pit waiting to swallow us all chaos to pick. Cash it out. Sincerely really missed that this little finger voice, various, ultimately tried to climb. We're just not totally sure at the end why he picked this moment, or this latter, basically and various did meet a little finger. Ask end both of them were positioned for so much of the show as master plotters. And then at the end leading to their respective demise is they kind of just lost their fastball, but on like Pete paid. Barris didn't get caught in a web of his own making, you know, little finger taught sonza, the lessons that she then used to bring a little finger got out play the end various just forgot how to make the weapon stop doing stuff. He just wasn't doing anything when Danny and varies very briefly buried the hatchet and season, seven various told, Danny. Hey, listen. Let me tell you something. Yeah, I have a truth teller. That's right. I will say it to your face. He left out the part about I having numerous secret conversations on boats and in room by castle. But yes to your face many, many, many side, Mark overseas with other people about a about a coup and trying to poison you after that. Absolutely is eighty race and dinner said, and I swear this, if you ever betray me, I'll burn you alive. Guess what? I mean, listen, she was in this sense. Absolutely. A woman ever word. And again, it was. There and justified in doing it as Mila Sandra told various atop the cliffs of dragging sewn. I have to die in this strange country as to you, maybe that casual prophecy, from Ellison her in some way, corrupted various his mind, maybe caused him to act rashly and maybe the show as with so many characters and so many other points just ran out of time to properly. Explain all of the motivations. The result is that grey worm comes for barris leaving the spider to remove all of his rings, burn the letter that he's writing at the time, which makes us wonder did he get those other letters off? Who did he send perhaps Pio Di did peo- DO on them? You gotta finger fossil and the letters, make it hard not to think of Ned and stand us Ned, who only got word to stand us regarding the truth of Joffrey Tom ourselves parentage, when he learned it and status, of course, who swore because of what Ned had done not to make mistake, spread the word of Jamie. And sir sees twins us. The was honestly the smartest thing that he had. Yes. The thing is. They both wound up dead embarrassed to you. Bet he did. Right. On the beaches of dragon stone where Santa's became the would be king of the ashes allowing mill asandra to burn the idols and the infidels would be save your high on his own promise, committing horrors, by means of magic as a means to the end, he felt he was owed Stanislaus isn't the comparison wants turn source any accept you, as the Santa's fan. Listen again, bookstand is not bad, at least at this point. That's it. But in the show's p paid the ultimate price for his since the. Ultimate price. His family gone, his life forfeit with Danny in her victims standing on the same shores, where SAM's burnt so many, we can't help but recall Santa's was ultimately proven wrong and his belief in his methods losing everything after sacrificing so much the actual death is mesmerizing. Really? I love the way when she says, drew cars, I, I love how quietly and just suddenly flat to cars and the way that drogue on appears bug like her from the darkness right before that it's very chilling and I love how I love how he seems to savor this in a way like almost a reflection of the more primal side of generis before that manifests within herself, when she hears the bells and loses it s but seems to doesn't just flame on takes a few steps forward and really seems to I up his victim before finally unleashing that flame. I love that scene. Very, very powerful moment. And very Representative of the highs and lows of the episode because again the decision making that gets us to that point is so confounding, but the spectacle of the moment itself is alternately extraordinary, and now John's face here is telling because absolutely disturbed ES and let me just say that I find like this whole omega. She's burning people. I get it in terms of the connotation that would have for a stark in particular. Sure. Yep. At the same time like the dragon fire reduces, like dick on and Randall were reduced to a pile of ashes like two seconds. Absolutely freaking painless. Yeah. This isn't the Charene funeral pyre right. It is essentially no different than hacking off someone's head and probably hurts a lot less, especially if you're talking about, like theon, great joy out here. Like taking five swings on people's necks, you're right to site the stark family history. It's important also something like remember, John. Couldn't stand to watch manse raider burn. And got the arrow and put man's out of his MRs one people suffering exact unless it's only young. Younger than bread who Hong four awhile. It took like five six seven seconds for Ali to choke out. Neck John was fine young. Brian Danny's face is interesting as well. He's impassive. Yes, as she was when she watched call Drago Meltzer brothers head so long ago, Danny can face death. She can welcome in even when it's aimed at someone she knows deserves it supposed to be a tone center. What's succumb reminder that Danny can look upon violence and death and blood and be like, yes, this is the price that I must pay in order to get where I need to go to the throws. Yes, difference those at various death, while horrifying is absolutely justified by the rules of the story and it slammed again. No ruler in game of thrones slash west Rosie history would countenance what various did. Right. They would all execute. The trader would Danny does after the bells ring is absolutely not, perhaps, more accurately falls into a pattern of western V history. But does not comport with the standards. Danny has set for self. That's the difference. No one in this world is exactly surprised that a population gets wiped out by an army that has laid siege to its gates and then as broken in that happens all the time. It's just the Dani said that she was better than that. That was the thing. She wanted to stop. That's the thing. Yeah, one of the people who was trying to hold her accountable to that promise has been tear him. It's Chad about Tyrian for a minute. Another confounding episode for our dude, Tyrian, Lancaster, though, also another just phenomenal. Peter English episode really throughout this entire episode masterful performances from the actors the actors this has really been a spotlight season out of the actress incredible is the writing has kind of shrunk in focus. Let's say the actors have done so to keep going back to that scene with theon and sonza that carried more weight than any fee on scene of the blast two or three seasons. Just that look that that fraught look that they give each other. Laden with so much emotion. I mean that was enough for you to be like, I gotta tell you. I'm I'm a pro theon now. I. I was alvie Allen. So return boneless, first of all, you know, I love to I love it. I was just surprised to feel anything. Yeah, he'll something which was real achievement. And you know, we're going to spend a lotta time talking about Danny, and Amelia Clark. But everything that Amelia Clark, does with her face, and intonations episode really great acting. It's been wonderful Tyrians decision making less wonderful. He has continued to devolve from one of the savviest minds in the real, the man talking about how a mind needs books like a sword needs of wet stone. If aids keep it said into for a period of time, a utterly defeated nihilist into someone who is so full of belief in his leader. And also in the sister, who has failed him time and time again, literally tried to have him murdered more than once. So what's a small thing like that between? Bygones that he really thinks he really seems to think that appealing to someone's better nature can work even if that better nature is the smallest fractured seed within Rover Lee ripe, rotten fruit surrounding it. He rats out Varis. Yes. He does. Honestly, the smartest thing he's done all seas. I like how he owns that. He's like it was it was me it was one hundred percent me. And it was because like listen as we noted last episode after various made his approach deteriorate on dragon stone. That's not a conversation. You walk away from an forget. That's right. You make your choice there. Either you say something, or your complicit Tyrian tries to convince Danny that he in various as advisors need to know about John, so they can help her. It's actually I thought a compelling pitch little late a little late. But I thought compelling like we need to see the board. So we can under. Sand where the threats are coming. Yes, it is a good way to try to say to her trust works both ways you are saying you can't trust us. But how can we think that you trust us or that we should trust you, unless you're sharing all the information with us that is at your disposal? However, she sees only dangerous people who can't keep their mouths, shut recognize when information might harm her. And you know what? Absolute right. This is a guy again, you can make the argument that Tyrian has sided with more than he is cited with dinner skiers fought harder for what sir c wants. And what's good for surgery? Then he has for deniro's you can make that case. Let us never forget, especially now because in the wake of the long night, a lot of people have been talking about John's struggles as a battle tactician and believing him for bad plan. Ben plan teary and Harry's idea. We have to go convince sir see why. Why literally, what member the whole thing about how she's been trying to kill us. You were child and literally squeeze, your dick, like remember that over Martell was like a went to cause wrong because boy, and a heated everything the wisdom food. Everything then associate took us to your cradle. Squeeze Ucok pinched. It will do you cried? It was crazy. Remember that? And now, you're like we got to convince her what's wild. She squeezed your cock. But have you considered though? Let's be fair. Yeah. She loves her children. God. She. Listened shoes out there squeezing Medac when I was an infant was gonna squeeze it off. If not for the fact that over Marta was there and has multiple times. Tried to kill me has killed many people blew up. I don't know five thousand people NS, stork landmine, a historical landmark loves kids, though, got us tell you. She loves them. Tyrian says we wanted what you want a better world. All of us various as much as anyone. Yeah. Again, he's relying on the power of good intentions, and why what that he seen in this life makes him think that matters. It's one thing to have good intentions, and say, this is what I believe. Yes. That has to manifest inaction search he loves her kids. She's actually got to do something that shows you that, that love for another organism can somehow transfer to lots of other people who aren't directly related to her as Jamie will say elsewhere in this episode. Most of the horrifying things he has done. Yet. This is the man who wants told the throne room full of king's landing leads. I saved you. I saved the city and all you worthless lives. I should've let status kill you all now. He's like, hey, you know, stuff that people think even if they don't act on it, that's enough. Our guy really shouldn't have stopped reading books or having sex. I think that's dulled. Yes. His mind clearly a mind needs fucking like a sword needs a wet stone. His next appeal to Dante comes in the dragon zone throne room where he reminds her tries to at least that the people are not her enemies. They're the innocence like those, he tells her that, she liberated a marine trying to appeal to this moment in her life, that was not only foundational. But where she said, I will do a queens. Do I will rule she notes that the slaves liberated themselves after she arrived? So why won't the people of king's landing do the same the people, of course, who she is heard for so much of her life? We're drinking secret toasts in the target area name so wing banners. Just waiting for the dragon lords to return and Tyrian says that anyone who resists seat is gonna see their family butchered, and then a truly truly haunting and unsettling exchange. Ensues Comte, expect them to be heroes. The hostages. Yeah. In tyrants, peaceful. Is that right? What does it matter whose full to his thousands of children will die? If the city burns, your sister knows how to use enemies weaknesses against them. That's what she thinks lassie's. We beg you my own. Massey is all strength. Almassi towards future generations. He will never, again, be held hostage by time int- couple of weeks. Yeah, this is trouble. Why have Danny talk about mercy here? This makes everything she does after the bells so much worse. At this point, we need to be losing all confidence, or not believing not believing that she still finds value in mercy. Yes, it's part of what makes her flipping the switch moment. So flipping the switch so jarring. Yes again, yes, you can force out stuff all you want. But that has to be more than just these little blips just because you make a face when someone burns doesn't mean that you then or like I'm gonna burn a million people. I often think of when people are having an argument and you're like, you know, I could kill that person really. You would kill them. No. That's a thing. You say and to use that as like foreshadowing of this person is a serial killer. It's a lot, the flip side of that idea of mercy. Is now one of her delusions that's kind of muddled here. But the fact that she talks about the innocence of king's landing, the ones juror told her don't care who sits thrown as though they deserve to suffer for where they happen to be is though, she's completely off the hook for what falls them because she didn't put them there that is scary. So I think we need to AB the plans that Tyrian puts forth versus what Dinares wants doing what they wanna talk her out of deniro's wants to attack the city now with the dragons with the unsullied with Raqi, right. Tyrians view is, hey, don't be cleaning, the ashes lot of innocent people are going to die. If you do that, let's do something much more middle ground low impact. Let's do this. Let's see to the city and starve it out. And then the people will get mad at Surti turn on her and overthrow her flinch, John and everyone else sign off on that. So let's really unpacked with they're saying attacking the city directly leading to thousands of deaths by dragon flame and. Steel that's bad. But if we merely cut off the food supply, which, by the way, will not in any way affect, sir. See in the leadership, they will eat. They will be fine, right? The common people. Right. Everybody else who lives in the city will starve to relies on making those innocence that he's now considering protecting suffer. So fully they then turn using them as the kind of lever. Right. The idea being that you know, once enough parents have watched their children waste away in their arms. Yeah. From starvation. It's a great point. They will then become so angry at search that they will take up arms, right? Leading certainly to their own deaths. Many of them as they attempt to overthrow and that, that is in some way degrees better than what Danny plans to do now. Maybe it is I don't know like use your own judgment in that but really look at it because what? Tyrian is proposing to do is to use the citizens again as the frontline shock troops in this attack on C Lancaster to use them as leverage. It's a great point, especially because of how much of the narrative. Yes, heritage on the show and the people discussing the show centers on, sir. See using the innocent people as essence a human shield. And whether that would in some way, Leigh, Danny to commit this atrocity that she didn't wanna commit but her own people are advocating version of it. Absolutely is like let starve innocent people to death by their thousands until they get mad enough to do something not great. No, it's not what you want. Tyrian is getting desperate at this point. He is realizing that he's not breaking through. And so he brings up checkoffs bills checkup spills baby, which he will after discussing them with Danny here, nen, a mention them to Jamie, and then mention them the John. He tells Dan. Needs if the bells ring, it means the city has surrendered and begs her to call off the attack if she hears them, please she nods. And again this makes what's to come all the harder to swallow because it really does position what happens in the episode less as well. We've been moving toward this the whole time and more as she just snapped. She just suddenly snapped and asked hearings leaving her company. She stops him to tell them about Jamie that Jamie has been captured. It seems he hasn't abandoned your sister, after all, she says the next time you fail me. We'll be the last time you fail me. And it's like eight strikes you're out. Frontier led us again, then has a legitimate gripe here, -solutely guarding Tyrians judgment is specially where his siblings are concerned, but it's another moment where we see that all of her disatisfaction is now manifesting in reach and threats and the promise violence, which is obviously highly ominous tears. Farewell, Jamie is re. Moving one of the great moments of this episode, even though that emotion is under cut by absolutely confounding nature of what tearing is doing. I still do not understand what tune thought his end game is here because what does he thinks going to happen? What is the best case scenario? Right. Did is takes the city with the minimum of innocent lives. Lost cheese Queen, but Jamie, Lancaster has escaped with sir. See Tyrian definitely let him go because like, I don't know thirty five on sullied saw him go into the tent. Right. Davos, Shirley implicated being rating. Probably up to be hung next. There is actually no version of this in which Tyrian just walks away. Even if Danny takes the city bloodlessly, he would surely stand trial for his life. So like what is his end game here? It's great question in it's confounding as he sketches out while there will be a junior waiting for you by the cove. You just have to follow this extremely convoluted path to this precise location, where spoiler alert, you're on will also happen to be right. And the other thing you need to do is convince Serfaty. Again, why does he think that anyone can convince he loves she loves kids? Now, Jamie will be able to convince her to follow him when things get that desk. Very excited to discuss. That means you satirical is so desperate to save genie, who he loves as we see very again, very touchingly in the scene and knows that Jamie won't leave without trying to get in. So even though and maybe himself doesn't believe that sir see will. He's just focus on appealing to that part of Jamie's motivation. But Tyrian has literally stated before that he wants to see dead. Right. Literally Biggio on because said, I want her dead. He's hand to the Queen, who is now trying to remove from power, and that always meant killing Sirsi, always, like there was no way to remove from power without killing her right? We should make no mistake about that. She wasn't leaving right? She wasn't taking a buyout at going to pencils. That's not a sil-. No. And he says, when Jamie notes that this will surely cost him his life, as you just outline. Maybe Danny will forgive him if he helps her reach the throne without having to wait over this river of blood. What has he seen from Danny that leads him to believe that's possible, what he just watched her rose fares on the beach? If we can't trust hearings judgment Tyrian, who has always been the most rational, intellectual on the show. Then what can we trust were as wobbly as the red keep watching him act like in this manner? It becomes a Jangi tower of logic that keeps losing brick after brick and he's also eating Jamie, by the way, vice that he himself will not follow why can't here in just go. Start a new life. Why is he actually sued voted to Danny? And this is no, she to Danny. It's just about assessing Tyrians, mood, avation, and Tyrians character. He told Varis at some point, you just have to pick someone to believe in stick with it. So, okay. Maybe it's not. But he's eulogizing Danny's behalf has always felt like just degree removed from the reality of their relationship hasn't. You know. You know exiting season seven it seemed like he was in love with our. We thought heading into by the way, it was going to be was listen, there's a lot of dangling, we can get into this at some point, probably in the final episode about all the dangling plotlines that it seemed like they were seating. That was absolutely one that they were seating. It's definitely seemed like so it seemed like that would be the explanation for this pain often misguided devotion. But most of the exchanges that we have witnessed between them since Danny returned to marine, certainly everything season. Seven and eight have been putting it, most charitably would be deeply fraught. Danny chastising Tyrian threatening to remove him from his position recently threatening his life. Not so subtly Tiernan, questioning Danny's decisions, about things, she had done, or was about to do the show hasn't really sold his devotion to her well enough for us to understand how he's in this spot right now. And certainly as we've outlined has not explained. How he has had this change of heart regarding. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the theme of senior Tyrians willingness to die in order to save many other people, however is moving. Yes, he says tens of thousands of innocent lives, one not particularly innocent dwarf seems like a fair trade. He's doing an away. What Danny swore to but hasn't? Yup. Valuing those lives above his own personal advancement. He's ready to die. But to save people into stop Danny not to help her the moment of partying in the brothers Lancaster is actually like quite moving. And again, a testament to the excellent work these two actors who have so much chemistry on screen and to the excellent scenes, the game of thrones can still deliver when we do get meaningful conversations between the characters which are absolutely if it wasn't for you tiered says after noting he never thought he'd gets repay the favor, Jamie did him when he freedom from king's landing in the dungeons on the eve of his certain death. I never would have survived my childhood. You would have Jamie says you were. The only one who didn't treat me like a monster. You were all I had, and they embrace cry JAT includes sir see, by the way, who pinched my cock until I fucking cried, but she loves her kids, so it's all good. Because of the allusions to their time in the dungeons together interior was a prisoner in season. Four we also can't help. But think about one of the things that they talked about down in those dungeons during that time cousin Orson remember cousin. He of the Beatles smashing. How many countless living crawling things, smash dried out return to the dirt tear NS Jamie back, then his larger question what was the point Tyrian toll Jamie and us that he obsessed over this question? And now he's making us think about that kind of thing for different reasons entirely. What was the point? What was the point of trying to find someone to believe it challenging those that he knew needed to fall leading the charge of the mud gate, all of it? Yeah. As he watches Danny unleash her dragon fire on the innocence. King's landing standing as he is amid the ash the bone of destruction similarly to how he was standing amid the carnage after lutron attack. But this time he's looking on in horror as the bells go on heated. He and we cannot help but feel the shows increasingly nihilistic message over us that cram wrote a great piece about this in the ring or this week. Is this what the show is trying to? Tell us that there's no point or that it's at least worth asking constantly what was the point of trying for something better than what came before? If the results are only loss in har-, that's really, really deflating message, I think we're gonna spend a lotta time after the finale talking about what the moral of the story, ultimately, is, but right now we have a lottery to think that it's a very nihilist one Tyrian remember, once told, Danny union, the great game now the great game is terrifying. What a fucking blowhard. He once was it turns out. It was absolutely terrifying. For him as it was for anyone at as hard to play. Yes. Can he recover some of that Mojo in the finale can find a way to still break the wheel to foment that kind of revolutionary change that he so desired bring on their own public, after the wheel broke, Danny and so many others be, but the spin that brought us here crush lot of Beatles along the way. And you know what Tyrian is about to face? I think his absolutely his final. Of course, it's the finale but is his final and most dire trial, yet, great sign that in the penalty episode not only of the season but of the series were talking about Ali, and Orson more than brand. Now brian. Younger than brand, Dali. Now quick break for a word from our sponsor. Today's episode of binge mode. It's brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hiring used to be hard poltical, jobsites stacks resumes. Confusing review process. Today, hiring can be easy and you only have to go to one place to get it done. Ziprecruiter dot com slash bench. Ziprecruiter sends your job to over one hundred of the web's leading job boards. How, but they don't stop there. Their powerful matching technology ZipRecruiter scans thousands of resumes. Find people with the right experience and invites them to apply to your job as applications come in ZipRecruiter analyzes each one. That's about. Let's top candidates. See never miss a great match ZipRecruiter so affective four out of five employers who post on sip recruiter. Get a quality candidate through the site. Listen to this within the first day. And right now, our listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free. It web. This ZipRecruiter dot com slash bench. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash B. I. N G E, ZipRecruiter dot com slash bench. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Today's binge Bona's. Also brought to you by luminary. If your podcast of movie fan, like we are they need to check out luminary. They've just launched bunch of great original shows, you can only find on their platform, including spin off of one of our own ringer podcast. Three watchable 's called the rewatch Ables nineteen ninety nine it takes that same great rewatching formula that, you know, in love and applies it strictly to movies the year. Nineteen ninety nine great movie year, great podcasts. We're also excited about a brand new podcast musical from John Cameron Mitchell called anthem. It combines the density of series television with the excitement of musical theater and live concert luminary app is free to download and you can use it to listen two thousand. Of podcasts, including the ones you already love like mode. Hell enhanced by an easy to use interface personalized content recommendations. Whether you're into movies music, sports comedy, or more luminary has the right show for you. If you love podcasts, and you need to check out limiting get your first two months of access to luminaries premium content for free way sign up luminary dot link slash binge road after that, it's seventy that's luminary dot link slash binge for two months, free access luminary dot link slash binge mode, cancel anytime terms play, and now back to binge mode. Okay. Get to the heart of the episode Saka kings landing. Danny's turn to quantity ashes. And before we get into the storytelling choices, here, we want to take just a moment to really toast the filmmaking achievement because this was visually and auditory stunning. The kind of thing that we truly cannot believe we are seeing on our television screens on Sunday nights, astonishingly. This was not filmed in Dubrovnik on location as the prior king's landing sequences had been the built, if entire king's landing set on their lot in Ireland. Unreal for we get to Danny's destruction of king's landing. Let's step back for a minute to the previously on segment that preceded the episode, which ends with soundbite montage of warnings about Dany in particular, in tar guarantee, in general over visual of the rage on Danny's face at the end of last episode. After searching, the mountain executed Massanga here before the episode even began the intention was on mistake. Yes, they were going to absolately do it. And by the way. Let me just say this. When you have narrative audio in montage form, without the video as crucial exposition to your story. I don't wanna be too harsh, but I feel like it's an acknowledgment that the substance of your story does not contain enough information for the audience to understand what is happening. It's a tacit admission that is what has happened after everything that unfolded in the episode at the beginning Farris, cerium, John dragon stone, Danny heads to battle on drums back, and she emerges from this blot of sunshine. That is blinding the iron islanders who are looking up into the clouds goes, still Herron hall comes from straight above down upon her pray and decimates. The iron fleet with such ease that it actually just makes Ray galls death from the prior episode even harder stomach, because one thing in this episode no matter how you felt about it is in arguable drug on. Unstoppable stoppable. We see a dragon can do here. So, yes. All was wounded last episode in that clearly impacted his ability to fly shouldn't have been flying. He didn't never rider eat enough someone to help them guide him, but three flawless crossbow bolts to Pearson. Take him down with ease when drogue on in this episode. Absolutely annihilated in entire army in about forty five seconds. Absolutely maddening and feels like to Jason to your recurring point one more choice that they made to just knock Danny down. Artificially. I mean, watching that I was just thinking men, day, one arriving, dragons, stone fly one dragon, not even three fly one drag into the red keep and melted, and then you're done. It's over finagled not to mention by the way, if Ray goal was part of this fight. His death could have been used as the spark as many on the internet have noted the spark that helped better justify Danny's choice. You know. You know, have the bells ring Danny on drogue on ragle by himself are kind of perched on a wall around some building. And then all of a sudden, one of those scorpion bolts pierces Racal, stressing dies there. And that's the thing right? That makes Danny feel that she has to burn the city strange that they didn't do that. And then her pursuit, afire and blood would've at least seemed justified in the moment, right after she burns the fleet. She and her one dragon turn to the walls, king's landing and blast the gate and the absolutely blindsided, go, the company out of the way, which is unbelievable, honestly, stair. It's so funny isn't some post. I don't know. But clearly something changed between seasons to go from the golden company Bank setup as this massive had to force again heading into season eight and even after episode one season eight we spent a long time talking about holding company. Be seeing a new fangled black fire, never broken a contract, ever roken contract play for the throw contract. Yeah. And show and there's no young Griff. You know. So they were we thought going to be players and said, Harry Strickland got got in about two seconds straight line. Like Rick on their absolutely must be golden company, footage, and some kind of, like alternate golden company plotline that got cut because otherwise it just doesn't make sense to waste any screen time at all on these fucking people. At least we at last, why we didn't get the elephants that would have been real do not like Harry Strickland has literally two lines and then freaking. Dis. Excellent beasts yo grace, believable, the ease with which Danny and her forces who get in on the golden company. Slang fun blast through defenses. Almost astonishing, Danny, and drogue on here. Rain fire down upon the walls, removing every single bigger crossbow from existence in the flash of aflame. She barely even needed. Her armies, Milly victory, really vast. And it was absolute. And it was essentially solo. And that, of course, is what makes what happens next. So astonishing devastating the Leinster soldiers lay down their swords, the bells rang Justice here and said they would and then donaire star Garin, the mother of dragons, Cleese, you the great grassy breaker chains, the unburnt, etc. Etc. You know, the damn words our she listens to the sound of the bells. She listened to the shouts of the people who are begging for those bells, begging for a reprieve. She looks out into the distance to the red key per birthright. Now just stay. Arm's reach away and her face, quivering with rage takes off on drums, back burns, the city to the ground murders. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands. We know that there are a million people in king's landing innocence, destroys in, mere moments, the very thing that she worked her whole life to reach and certainly didn't force her to the realities of the battle didn't force her to the opposing army didn't force her to. She had one. And yet she chose fire and blood. Now, we can hold two opposing views in our mind at the same time. Yes. And we do. Yes. Danny's turn to Queen of the ashes absolutely has been foreshadowed throughout the story in the books, as well as the show and by all indications something akin to this ending for generis is where she will end up at the end of the books if we forget there and yet to in the moment, it just felt so abrupt absolutely rushed. And he don't want to react too strongly, but tragic in the way that it, it felt like a reversal that came out of seemingly nowhere now. Yes, she had said, I will burn cities to the ground that coming like she said, a lot of stuff. Forget all coming. You can say a lot of things that not do it for instance, you know, certainly Leser kids. What does she done? She killed a lot of people. You know what I mean? And so this was tragic, and not in the way that it should've felt tragic Danny's. Arc is always felt like it was heading towards more Shakespearean kind of tragedy. I think Mallon I agree. The thing that we were thinking of that we would readily accept a says as it is, is a woman driven by her ambition and ideals who along the way, trying to get home to the one place where she belongs that she's been told about the one place that she can hang onto our mind as something. That belongs orphan, castaway in a strange land in that mission to get back there. She gives away piece by piece these bits of herself. These ideals of herself in trades them for an opportunity to acquire just a little bit more power so that she'd have a better chance to get back to her home, and that when she does she's given away. So much of herself that she is no longer the same person that would have been a tragedy. Yes. That's not really what happened now. Instead, we get the instant full of switch after victory had been secured that compromise, so much of the groundwork that again, had been laid for that type of tragic demise a meteoric rise that leads to cataclysmic fall and instead positions. Danny's turn as her snapping as a power mad and crucially unhinged female rules. That's too power hungry. Women facing off in this moment in the show who couldn't handle the heartbreak. So let's dive into both of those truths in greater depth to explore how real both of them are I the Danny's turn had been foreshadowed throughout the entire story. There are too many examples to explore now, but we wanna go through decent number of them because they're very eliminating. And given the mass outrage around the storytelling choice really important to export. I talk about the visions there, too that are worth remembering one. The dragon shot over the red roofs of king's landing, which we saw him brands visions in season. Four and season six we got that shot at last here in this episode drogue on's wings beating toward that destruction the show runners from all reports. Learn George Martin's ending between seasons three and four this shot which again I appears in season four. So he's felt to us like the promise of dragon and thus fire and blood cascading over. King's landing, and that's what happened last season. We had a moment where we wonder could this be Syrian once area and went to the night, king. But Danny always seemed most likely because of a nother vision. That's right. The throne room in ruins which we saw brand season four vision as well. But saw previously Danish journey through the house of the dying in Carthage season to the wreckage always seemed like it was likely to be caused by dragons because of the fire damage wildfire. Of course, another possibility which could possibly torn down the walls and addition to the roof. And we wondered whether what we saw falling was snow winter or ash, cataclysmic, fire our friend, Joanna Robinson is clarified ambiguously that it was meant at the time to be snow. It was written as such script, but it feels like we're going to get a ret con right? And honestly, it makes it does. Plus, even snow plays as a prophetic, rendering of John. Feerick him on the throne stead. I love that actually beyond the visions we play any other moments plenty of their lines that we can turn to, including Danny's somewhat routine mentions of fire and blood and her very pointed promise in cars to lay waste armies and burn cities to the ground before that in vista thrashings washy sanctioned her brother's death by moulting gold port overhead crown for king. Remember make no mistake. Sarah's was a monster. He was an abuser. He was a horror, and he deserved to die, but it is still notable. Again, this idea of maintaining multiple truths in our mind at once, because it shoot us early on The Danny had the capacity to unleash a certain type of hell upon her enemies. Now what's the operative word there? And which again highlights dimiss calculation that this episode made in having her massacre innocent, people said of just burning down king's landing to get to see too great point couple. Of course, we heard in the. Previously on her worth revisiting Ayman's line to Santa castle black ATar Garin alone in the world is a terrible thing. And we see how absolutely right. He was what Danny turns to in place of connections with people. She cares about is just violence. And then there is bare line from the previous launches also worth revisiting it full when the people rose in revolt against him. Your father, set their towns and castles aflame he murdered sons in front of their fathers, he burn men alive with wildfire and laughed as scraped in his effort to stamp out dissent led to rebellion that killed every targeting, except to, I'm not my father, Danny says no your grace, thank the gods. But the mad king gave his enemies, the Justice. He thought they deserved in each time it made him feel, powerful and right. Until the very end eversion of Justice. He thought they deserved is something that we have actually heard from Danny more than once another moment with Barrington comes to mind here. Sometimes it is better to answer injustice with mercy he said to her marine, what was her replied? I will answer injustice with Justice and then. Crucified every master of marine, despite, and she later learned from his door. Some of those master's, having been opposed to the very things that she was fighting against similarly when you fell again after they had left any wanted to send Dario back to eliminate all of the uprise IRS in full because they were treating people like these what a joy, tell her well, doing that is also treating people like bee's when Danny needed to suss out the power behind the, the heartbeat. She brought certain masters down to the catacombs where she was keeping the surrounding rig all at the time burned one alive. It seemed almost for sport. That's one of the most mad king esque moments. Danny's had where you look at hers that's happening. And you say to she like this. And she did not know if that man for any responsibility for what was happening the point was to intimidate other people to make a lesson out of his demise, quote, they can live in my new world or they can. Die in their old one. She wants said of the people posing her reign enslavers that plus the aforementioned violence is a lens with which to consider her style and her instincts towards power. She fought to fight the oppressors. Yes. Undoubtedly. But often savagely often in a way that blurred the line between which he was stopping what she was doing. It's not right. For example, to abuse prisoners of war, Danny did time and again, acting as judge during execution when she's deemed someone's morality lacking. Any even though often was lacking. She shouldn't have that, right? No one should, and yet I think it's also important to note that it wouldn't be out of torturing a prisoner in this world while would be certainly frowned upon people like bed etcetera, it wouldn't exactly be uncommon. It would not be uncommon when she was returned to marine her first instinct upon finding the city under siege was, I will crucify the masters. I will set their fire afire every last one of their soldiers. Turn their cities to the chill Tyrian again. Talks her out of it before she returned. She burned all the cows of vice the threat. Yep. Now you stand for I do stand for it hundred percent. First of all, they had her prisoner. Let's just explore the nuance of it. Okay. Many of those cows were bad people who did terrible things I would go all of the cows were bad, people who did terrible. I would say all they were all dudes, who rode out and slaughtered entire villages and carried people off into slavery. So was drug. Oh, yes. Danny came to love him and stood up to him when her men were abusing prisoners of war. Absolutely. But to Joris point, you know, if Ned had cut off his head or a never would have found the path to redemption again like they any kills people instantly, but they again, had her prisoner, and we're like, I course, I would've ending the vile cows, just noting that her instinct to instantly wipe them all off the face of the earth points to how we were laying the ground here. Would you say that? I don't think it's. I don't think that particular thing was like instinct, it was more like she had to escape this, or they were going to torture her to death. She was outside with Giora and Dario, and could have left right then. But instead decided to go back in round them all up trap them inside hot burn them alive. She needed. Jackie. She needed to three she needed to take their entire culture herself. She did okay, does recall the famous line from token rings, many that live death and some the digest of life Cain. You give it to them. Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment, Danny, whether you think an individual decision for the calls or anything else is right. Or wrong is almost in terms of this larger points, slightly, or the larger point is that she has long believed that the answer that for her is, yes, does get decide that she does get dole out judgment. The thing is that's not governance. That's not liberation. That's tyranny. It's the exact thing she says she's trying to stop, I would counter by this. It is governance in this world and all governance in this world is tyranny. There is literally no democracy in this, then that's also a fine, but she doesn't see the difference. She doesn't think what she's doing is torrential again, just to. Offender when people are like, hey, don't do that ninety five percent of the time. She goes, okay? I will. Yeah, but we're talking about the times when she did do it. It's like it's literally like two times. I mean it isn't I it's really not that many times the master's again. I've I'm fine with it. They own slaves, burn the guy burn the guy in the temple. I don't care if he did. He did something. It's fine to me, this portion of the podcast is not meant to defend the masters or the calls. It's meant to show a pattern of behavior for Danny that foreshadows her her, and I agree. I agree broadly with it. But again, I kind of feel like we're judging Danny on a curve, because she's like I want to break the wheel and at the same time, I just don't think she's, but it's not about judging her behavior because I think we both are alternately, Danny fans people believed in her. Neither of us is saying that Danny is a bad personal wrong. It's just about showing in response to the many, many people out there who are saying this. Totally came out of nowhere. That is actually not true. This pattern, of course. Continued west Roseman Dany, Bert Randall dick on Charlie alive. Instead of imprisoning them despite them being defeated at that point flea in her power that one hundred percents. She went too far. Randall, fine d-conn. You don't let them just be. I'd like to die to know shut up. Go home. Go to horn hill. It and think bear. And again he opposed Robert during rebellion. But then stayed on king's guard Danny's ancestor Egon, the conquer himself win torn stark knelt made him warden north, when Lorne of house Lancaster, surrendered he named a warden of the west there has long been room for mercy and Justice and that's been true for Danny too, but we've seen many moments where thirst for her version of Justice, trumped everything else again. Not the same as slaughtering innocent for no reason. But groundwork for Danny, eventually, succumbing to the pull of power amid loss in her life. And then think about the moments of season, eight alone brought, and I think part of the problem, we would all agree is that so many of these moments have been concentrated to season eight, but they are nonetheless, Danny's whatever they want line about what dragons eat in response to signs plead for a laugh at the time. But it also spoke to this hubris that Kennedy's belie her tenderness when Sam told John, that he was Egon target Syrian Sam who many of us considered to be among the most open hearted and open minded characters. Story says John days not fit to rule. You gave up your crown to save your people Sam asked him. Would she do the same in when he asked that we all had to stop in wonder, and I think many of us, probably arrived at the conclusion of the answer to that question was no, which is notable just last episode when Danny agreed to go parlay with certainty in king's landing. It was not because she believed that, she stood a chance of saving Masan. It was because she wanted the people in the round to blame certainty. Not her for what she was about to do quote. They should know who to blame when the sky falls down upon them that's premeditation. All my life. She told Sandra early season it I've known one goal the iron throne in that's valid, but it's also different from the one goal of freeing the masses from tyranny. And we've seen Danny's mission shift from something morale truest to something more fully rooted in the pursuit of power and her belief in her birthright fares. Toll Tyrian, the best ruler may be the one who doesn't want it will. That's not Danny, and it's not. The type of ruler George are Martin fantasy stores in general, tend to reward unfortunately Danny's, the one who came to us with three dragons. So what are you gonna do? You just you dance with the one who brought you right. Danny believes in her destiny. And she has plenty of reason to as we heard her till viruses recently as last episode in Carthage. She spoke for dreams coming true. This has been part for shoreline for while Mel, Sandra mentioned the fabled. Prince was promised Danny immediately said, you think that might be me? None of those things. Make Danny evil. None of those things, make any of bad person. A lot of that is extremely relatable. You know, think of how Lewis said to brand who wouldn't wanna be special but they clarify the central role, thrown in its power have occupied and increasingly come to occupy in her heart. You pair that with the dragon, which is yes. Delightful fantasy creature. But also a weapon of mass destruction and horror can start to feel inevitable. There's a reason that the tour Garin words are fire and blood few notable passages from the books from dance mother of. Wagons, mother of monsters. What have I n leashed upon the world Queen? I am. But my throne is made of burned bones and it rests on quicksand without dragons. How could she hoped to win back? West. I am the blood of the dragon if they are monsters. So am I. Hello, indeed. Also from dad's from who you are what you are made to be remember your words, fire and blood when stepping into drug goes pyre at the end of game of thrones. The fire is mine. I'm near a storm born daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don't you see again that idea of destiny in season. Seven when John Danny met, she said, I was born to rule the seven kingdoms, and I will pretty clear. There is begged any last episode to not become the thing that she'd always struggled to defeat. But when she says something like now we will win the last war. It doesn't play fully as liberation even if that's sincerely her intent plays like this misguided. Hubris of a conquer who believes fully that she can change the world as set on talk thrones on Sunday night, that line between liberator and conqueror has always been as thin as the edge of a blade in this was the season when Danny traveled along that edge to the pointy end and stopped being able to see the difference. But that brings. Us to that second. Yes, you can hold all of those things to be true. You can acknowledge them as indicators that Danny has increasingly crossed the line and gone against the ideals, which she is a spouse, this was coming end. And you can believe that however convincing in terms of the overall plot dot com. None of this really delivers what you would need in order to believe that Danny would do this in that moment of victory. The bells ringing, she has one she's one Lancasters of surrender. And then for reasons, because she sees the red keep as explained inside the episode in that enrages her for some reason, she didn't see it before. I guess, and then that would make her decide to then willingly burn thousands of people just burn them wantonly a. Thing which she has never done before or even really come close to doing attacking civilians, not long ago. Tyrian told Danny you need to inspire degree of fear. But fear is also see has it's all my father had Joffrey. It makes their power brittle because everyone beneath them longs to see them dead. This was crucially. Never the case for deniro before she always had more than fear grey worm, followed her because of loyalty and love the side, loved her Barrington loved her. She felt once she got west rose that she had lost that love. And that is crucial former people maestros love you than me. She said to John in this episode, I don't have love. I only fear and that's really devastating. Really, really devastating. Especially for someone like Danny who is so used to having that love to being adored, and that at ration- is not always a good thing. But she was in a position of liberating in the first place because of what you are called her gentle heart. She could not stand to let the masters of slavers bay dehumanize, legion. Of people, she sincerely wanted to make a difference in the world. That is a part of who Dan is. Absolutely. That goodness has been there for her entire orc to see vanished, so insulin. So fully is really, really tough to process, even before she became a liberator McQueen in the mother of dragons back during drogue owes attack of the Lazarus she protected, many of the people who are being taken by the rocky as slaves ultimately in Mary's case Agassi, great personal cost. Ourself Danny chain, two of her dragons in the catacombs of marine because drove on had killed one child. She felt so bad about it one child. And she chain two thirds of her strength below the catacombs of marine truncated nature of seasons. Seven and eight compromised. The ability to properly execute. Danny's turn, she was just saying, she didn't wanna be Queen of the ashes, and now she is, and she's here. Why is she here because she followed the advice of her advisers almost to the letter every time? They asked her to do something. She did it every time they asked her to mediator impulses. She did it and yet that was used against her in a way, especially by Varis who all of a sudden, like Penn, I don't trust what she's gonna do. I don't believe in what she's going to do and the evidence he used for that was her reaction. Her naturally frustrate reaction to the failures of the various plans, which are advisers foisted on her. So very strange thing. Speaking of which grey, worm, moas us, one of the reasons for acquiring the end. So in the very first place, as Giora says is they are so well trained in so loyal in so disciplined that unlike mercenary troops. Unlike standard armies, which are made mostly a peasant levies, and knights and stuff. They won't Saka city if you tell them don't do that. And yet, here's grey worm just off the chain the safety off. Spearing guts, part of it was really upsetting about this. Is that? That grey worm, and Danny have something accommodate here, which is that they've lost somebody, they love. And the show's message on the role of lov is pretty confusing at this point. I it's something that I think we'll have to return to after the finale, where we see where a few things land, but is the message supposed to be that if you lose somebody you're broken forever. You can't make good decisions anymore. I mean, that's pretty damning. That's what happened with the two of them. So we don't get the Taiwan. Ask the battles over. We have one from Danny and said, she goes bunch of people, and as Jason's outline that's not necessarily contrary to west Rosie history. But it is contrary to the standard the Danis efforts, and the standard that others holder too. It's not progress, which is what Danny has long fired to achieve. It's not breaking the wheel. It's breaking the promise to herself and to everyone else, even if Danny still just wants to go kill sir. She right there in that moment. Fine fly the wreck go do it just go do it. Why do you need to go up and down every street over the ride? For like twenty minutes away quite a long time. The show here traded shock and the impact of that moment, the stunning nature of that moment for character development. Logic plants, this is the worst example of it, but we've seen other examples of it in these truncated seizes consider as just one other instance not getting the scene in season. Seven Suns REM brand piece together the little finger subterfuge, before they execute him the explanation on the inside the episode and game revealed is misplaced would say one. And by the way, again, a tacit acknowledgement that there's just not enough information within the actual episodes that it is become anything, anybody who watches these would agree over the last two seasons become absolute necessary to understand what's going on to wash these which shouldn't be the case, and be the explanation is simply not good enough. It felt in that moment, like a hollow victory. They say staring at the red keep her birthright, her long-awaited. At home. Didn't feel right? What she feels empty said it wasn't what she thought it was. It's not enough. And that leads for murder tens of thousands of people the thing, that's not enough. Is that explanation really tough to do? And listen. We can all understand what happened there, isn't ending. They wanted to get to. Yes. And they reverse engineer. And they bat outta time back mapped at throughout the episodes. Okay. But it's still didn't play. Yeah. The thing is they ran out of time, the pacing, the plotting was off has been the through line of discussion around season aid, and there have been a lot of moments where it's been somewhere between. Oh, that's a little bit of a bummer, too. This is pretty damning. This is the moment where they risked throwing a crucial character for a large swath of the fandom. We don't feel that strongly about it again. We're, we're maintaining both of these truths in our mind at once. But there are a lot of people who said Dinares targeting was my hero. And I have no idea how we got here. No idea. And that's a problem if people feel that way now the issue with this now is that? That when you present this, turn in this truncated manner, right, where it seems like an emotional response that happens in a moment, and literally is presented. That way what you get is a woman who snaps. Yep. The power hungry lady just kind of went crazy, which is particularly harmful given what it says about combating mental illness, but also doesn't track despite the above foreshadowing with any of Danny's history of balancing worse impulses, which, again have always been there with restraint and council heating so much council heating this season. Particularly like the meeting with sir, in general was council heating, right? Enough change to change her, but not like this. Not this quickly. Yeah. Georgia are Martin has said that as we've discussed before. Well, again, the primary interest for him is exploring the conflict within the human heart and that Meeks this ark for Danny eight fascinating store. Retelling choice. We think that that's where her story is going in the books to not, again the specific fashion. But the Queen of the ashes even though it undoubtedly hurts everybody who's rooted for Danny for so long. We need to see the conflict, the conflict in her heart. We need more access to it and to be there for every step of the way we often talk about show, don't tell in journalism and storytelling everything thing is game. It's always excelled at the telling pairing, the telling the showing all those conversations and all those glorious grand rooms, the Tyrian likes to talk about that. So often how we came to understand the character so showing us a character who finally finally arrived home arrived at her goal rive with those people who she thought would help her only to have it all melt away, is completely gripping as a narrative choice showing us how loss which Danny's suffered in stunning fashion in recent weeks. Her best friends, and closest advisors Giora Masan, two of her dragons, if you factor in vissarion before and rig last episode half of her forces. Has filter with spare dread. She lives in fear of betrayal. She's tasted so many times in the book. Danny's three retrials is a prophecy. That's how big a role betrayal plays in her life. She doesn't believe interior in the book. She begs Dario, not to betray her Darris turned on her sonza once gone. She fell in love with John who wound up being true heir to the iron throne. The one thing she wants and the person who almost everyone who needs to support her. Now, clearly prefers who would not be impacted by that. Who would that not break or threaten to break show us all that, of course that's valid that's compelling? But again showed the tragedy of that gives us more than one episode of Danny looking haggard in a bathrobe and so depended when tearing goes to tell Danny about Varis in Danny rationalize it as really being. John's betrayal. That's pretty stunning portrait of a person who has lost the ability to distinguish friend from foe show us more thing. Like that, before we get to this moment, because that kind of storytelling, ultimately, what allows us to accept The Danny could eventually lose herself. And again, those choices would absolutely set up say attack on John Jack on one of her advisers, but an attack on tens of thousands of innocent, people tougher and when Danny's on drogue on burning, the city we only see the dragon flying above not her. And we see, of course, the devastation of the people on the street. The show runner said it was important show the horror on the ground of focus on the people Danny was slaying in. That's important. Undeniably. It's also undeniably powerful choice to show Danny as now, fully the dragon the perspective in the scene. A symbol of her metamorphosis inflame. I'm watching that, again, I thought about a line from Susan's on tags regarding the pain of others, which is excellent essay on violence, as depicted in the media, and how political that can be. She says here when. Talking about pictures that show soldiers and dead people or the images may be too terrible in need to be suppressed in the name of propriety or out of patriotism like the images showing without appropriate partial concealment our dead to display the dead after all is what the enemy does. And that's what they're trying to do. Here is turn Danny in a moment into the enemy by taking away any opportunity for you to feel empathy with what she's going through showing you only the devastation and none of her perspective because a faceless figure who wantonly kills innocent people is the enemy that is extremely well. Put and framed Mike hunter point not to that logic but to their actual choice is that we've spent eight seasons with Danny, and we deserve to see her processing what she's again speaks to why this feel so abrupt. Yep. Absolutely. What's the emotion on her face as she's looking down? She thinks that the harsh, she's also, by the way, and to, to the story as it's been told to this point, this is a story about not black and white characters about gray characters making is so out of left field, because he's the person who just can never reach never understand. And here we are at the ultimate moment of a character crossing over to the dark side. And we just kind of like can't reach her have no understanding of what's going on in her head. Yeah. It, let's her and them off the hook because we don't get to see a regret is joy is their different which of those is actually more terrifying. We don't get to see it or think about that in that way. And state of mind is particularly crucial to spend a bit of time, discussing because Danny is always lived in fear of becoming her father. We see that more fully in the books, but the tar, Gary and legacy of madness is a very present thing on the show as well in a theme in this story has been children are not their parents. We've heard it from, John, we've heard it from Tyrian. We've heard it from Danny herself. So what is this? Choice to have Danny break bad in this way, actually represent and say is show saying that Danny was always doomed because of the coin flipping his coin was always gonna land a certain way. The Showrunner have said that, if the circumstances have been different Danny would not have done this. So it isn't fate is in predestined. Okay. There's comfort there. But if that's the message that it makes it even more imperative to allow us access to understanding her choices recall what was said to Roz as she was washing her vagina bowl. Of all of our, our monitor's God's version upon us. Magara is the worst the same story that offers that assessment can't in any way trivialize the affliction. And think of how much time Aries targeting spent ruling as his madness crept over worsening after his imprisonment at the defines of dusk. India, leading him to refuse food for fear of poison in burn people alive for pleasure in threaten to lay the entire city low. He ran for ages before Jamie and Taiwan. Robert stopped him Danny's going to die next episode. Yep. It now seems inevitable, of course, after an I don't want to underrate what she did. But after this one moment, it just feels like not enough to balance out. What the other good things that she's done. Yeah. And there's visual cues that allow us to process that comparison, the mad king is present in this episode because his stores of old wildfire popping off across the city as drones flames or trigger. Cring them and what's visual? It's Danny's own fire her own choice. Absolutely dwarfing, the representation of her father's terror and madness. Is that really a fair legacy given what she did? And given what he did for so long, probably not. And the ghost of the past is a huge part of the story. Always has been shared history's always shaped ton of Danny's family name is the source of her claim the source of much of her power, but it's also the source of fire and blood, and so so much of her Arcus stemmed, not from. We're trying to connect to that in every way. But in some ways separating herself from that separating herself from figures like her father embarrassed when she really understood who they were understanding how she swings back. Requires time and care. There's also the question of destiny which we discussed above and agency. Think of brands, quote to theon everything you did. Brought you where you are now home. That's true for Danny's. Well all her choices matter. But our entire life and legacy. Without hinge on this one choice that occurred in a way that again, didn't feel true to even the most damning parts of our history in the books Danny often dreams of the house with the red door from her childhood and problems. The one place she felt safe this longing tells us so much about Danny's desire to find peace in belonging. Fear of losing that of losing, what she's fought to gain after sacrificing so much already is poignant and seeing that fear turn into a weapon could be to our issue isn't with the ultimate outcome of Danny's queens, the ashes again, we agree that this has been set up and is certainly seems to be where her character is going in the books as well. But with the specific manner in which she became that, and the really abrupt manner in which she was brought to that place when John recoils from her kiss, she says, all right. Then, let it be fear and choosing fear choosing violence. That's a seasoning, not knotted. Anything Danny blaming sonza for various is dead. F is really disturbing because again, it shows this detachment from the reality of the situation, Danny killed various directly made a choice and did it putting that on Sanga for an ex degrees of separation. Ripple effect is a scary thing warm. It's like that couple that with belong history of foreshadowing that we outlined, you can sell this, you can convince people that, even if it's not what they wanted that it makes sense tracks in many people would have felt betrayed regardless. Sometimes you're here Asli down. Sometimes let ourselves down. That's tragic. But that's also part of life for Danny some of this is felt inevitable, the prophesized wing shadow, the promise of so many of her own proclamations pairing that with this unrelenting portrait of violence that deftly reinforces. The story's antiwar message would have been a mentally, powerful support framed it as the battle of winter fell was good versus evil than this is what have we become? That's an interesting question. Yeah. Agreed give us time to process. It all we want is for more access to how Danny became this, any different moment for when she actually did, don't give us anikin slaying. The young Ling's Danny deserves more than that. Give us a fully realized portrait, not only of the chasm between the idealized version of savior and the realities for us access to Danny having to hold yourself accountable for failing to break the wheel give us young Griff. So The Danny has to throw back another challenger before accounting for John. Give us a full that spans is why stroke on wings. Now another quick break for a word from our sponsors. Today's episode of benefit is brought to you by Sonos experts at Sonos meticulously design, ever speaker, from the inside out combining best in class Wolfer and Twitter's with Pryatta software. They work with renowned producers mixers and artists to ensure an immersive listening experience and brilliant. Fillings out, Sonos true with the speaker tuning capability of the recording pros and the palm of your hands. Optimizing speaker sound for the acoustics sodas home theater also includes speech enhancement mode to clarify the sound of the human voice perfect for when characters. The action intensifies simply turn on in the Sonos app. But never miss a minute of the story so works with all your streaming services and is easy to control with the sewn SAF, your TV remote airplay to your voice. NF is on Alexa, or such Sonos, speakers, and components work seamlessly together, eight easy to customize your sound system and expand when you're ready simply connect Sonos over wifi, and enjoy listening in every room, my Sono surround sound and sub woofer really brought out the screams of the innocent, says, Danny flew over king's landing incinerating thousands of men, women and children, as they fled for their lives. Wonderful can you hear the worst of the flame can hear the crumble, every brick? Go to dot com to order your sound system today. That's S O S dot com as bench mode is also brought to you by policy genius. It's sprang. Oh my God. Time of year when seeds grow into flowers and you grow financial, your family needs protection something happens to you. And that means life insurance. Thankfully policy genius makes it easy to give that financial security out the growing pains policy genius is the easy way to buy life insurance online. Just two minutes, you can compare quotes top insurers to find your best price. Once you ply, the policy genius team will handle all the paperwork and red tape. No commissions, no hidden fees. Just financial protection and peace of mind policy genius makes it easy to compare them by home insurance auto insurance and disability insurance to we know the bitch modes long podcast. And if us policy genius, that's. More time that you have to listen to binge mode instead of needing to spend that time shopping for life insurance. So next time he stopped the smell the roses Polet your phone ahead to policy genius dot com policy genius. Spring is here, kick it off nipping life insurance in the bud. And now back to binge mode. Now, John, Johnny, boy, our interior. And of course, we're not the only ones to witness Danny's horror raining down on the streets of king's landing. John looked astonished at what he saw setting up, what we think, has to be the climax of the series, John, killing Danny, and then renouncing his own claim to the throne. Don't forget, the rule of Ginny song in this season of song about Geneva stones, who married, prince Duncan, prince of dragonflies would be arguing king who abdicated don't forget, the allusion to the night's watch, and Mr. Ayman, another targeting who could have been king. But then pass it up and went north instead love is the death of duty. Aiming once told John sooner or later in every man's life. There comes a day when it is not easy day when he must choose, and what did he tell John that choice as with Danny John's ultimate arc has been there all along the choice is do I remove Danny pursue my own crown? That now awaits will we get the final return to the quickening womb unlikely men? Wow. But that would be. Devastating complicate. It's wild that was, so obviously set up. Yes. And we are just it appears as if there's a possibility that we don't even talk about that again. Seems like it won't happen. I think we feel pretty confident, John will kill Danny next episode abdicate. He will renounce his claim head back north just like Gaman. John was on only horrify by Danny. He saw his own troops. Become the embodiment of that idea that Giora wants shared there's a beast in every man, and it, stirs. When you put a sword in his hand the moment when John sees the wildfire popping off is also really fascinating to think about giving the unlikely parallel creates between John and Jamie, Jamie once Slade. King to stop fire from burning them all is John analogy. So to prevent more of the same Jamie once mocked, John for joining the night's watch protecting the realm in that fashion, now really might be up to John to protect the realm from someone unleashing horror, great Joanna Robinson piece on that. Very comparison if you. Want more of that? Let's shift to some Jamie Serse talk, so Jamie. Yes. He really was going back to damage was not a brand fake out in order to kill seeing keeping unsafe fuck this feels in much the same way that Danny's outcome feels the right outcome. Presented in the wrong way sodas Jamie's it feels inevitable the place where he would probably end up and also very tough to swallow what, what is the message here is it that we can't change after we watched him before our eyes change and become a different person that were bound to our nature. There's a really powerful way to get Jamie to this point again, as with Danny were not objecting to the outcome. Just really the method show us what Jamie grappled with trying to live a different life and realizing couldn't show us that he loved them both, but only felt he deserved, sir. See we got one line to this affect which was masked by the cruelty. He showed toward the end. We believe that he loved her still believe that. Yes. But how do we reconcile all these? I have no idea and minor redemption ark. How does a line like what he says to Tyrian in this episode to be honest? I never really cared much for them, innocent, or otherwise in any way conform with the reality of his life with the defining moment of his life, when he killed the mad king to save all those people. It's like these things were in the multi-version. These things are happening on different versions of the same planet. Jamie's arc was one of the most precious, not only in this story, but in any story to so many, we've talked so many times on this podcast about what an astonishing creation chief Jamie, Lancaster is, and we still cherish him to be clear. He felt like this testament to our capacity for betterment and change. Didn't that just go away? Well, no, we can't allow ourselves to think about it that way. It's just almost two upsetting. Because Jamie, did he did show goodness. He did go and fight for the living. He did love brand. He did find something real with her, but he also fuck. Her and then forgot her in the same episode that will always be thing that happened in the same episode of Amos very same that will never change. He laid awake one time and was like out after hearing about the looming attack on king's landing. No, I wish I could have done. Oh. Stayed. There was no struggling with it. There was no explain no appearance of second thoughts before that news came up north, it just kind of happened Bryanne once said, one of our favorite lines in the show. She said this to pod talking about Ren -ly. Nothing's more hateful than failing to protect the one you love cell phone with that. Yeah. Link Jamie's choice to leave ran for C with an idea that brand hold secret that Jamie had to go protect certainty had to try couldn't live without trying, Jamie. Or again. Tell us Jamie tried to live this different kind of life when as far down another path as he possibly could. And then just realize that he didn't think he deserved that type of happiness or didn't want it or that he did. But couldn't let search die. We didn't really get a full explanation in any one of those directions. And even then he went north knowing understands rational person. What it meant that, if the living wost they'd be. Dead. And that if he won, Danny would go fight, sir C, which would mean killing her nothing that happened after a surprise this moment. This inflection point of him saying, well boy, heard about what she did to the Masan day. So I guess she's in trouble now because signs made a Snyder Mark about her secure. That's the first time I've considered that she might be in trouble, like, no that doesn't track much, like, sir. C bemoaning Jamie's bleeding wounds that is crazy when they're reunited when she sent an assessment after you'll bleeding, pleading your thoughts and killed him. Stuff like that, again with compressed timeframe is just so, so tough the ultimate outcome isn't what we want for Jamie. No. But what we think he deserves or even what he really wants we just needed more time to see it Jamie wants brand. We don't get to choose who we love. He did neither he loved, sir c always. Clearly they came into the world together they always said they leave together, he told Ronnie wanted to die in the arms of the woman loved we wanted that. Yeah, it was not. It's not about what we want. It's about with a characters acting away reveals true to their nature and honors the time we've spent with them. Yes, when Jamie says nothing matters only us, it wants ignorance his growth and feels of a piece with his longstanding view towards Hersi. So what's dissonance? It wasn't that long ago that he was pushing brand of window or killing sir Elton or threatening to catapult Ed Mertz baby into a castle all four as he told me. And it also wasn't that long ago that he was delivering one of the most moving in meaningful moments in the show by ninety Brienne. Yes. Weeks ago sell us on Jamie returning to CNN. That's yes. Of course, but don't position Jamie is someone who didn't put that blade on Brienne shoulder and charge her to be brave who didn't take her to bed after battle didn't soul tour in the bath inhere hall. Didn't give her a sword which he named oath keeper because of how much she believed in him in the books, he's currently on the road with Brienne effort, Norring, Surtees, pleas for help as she heads to trial will this same path unfold. Maybe but here's betting we understand better. Why Jamie leaves if he indeed does his arc is one of the many that seemed to actually have the clearest message for us. And now it either doesn't or does. But maybe a less uplifting hopeful way, can we change is Ernie? Fix Ken love. Transform us can make us better. Instead of just making us servants to our worst impulses. I don't want things growing on me Jamie said when he entered brands chambers, but he. In a way that really defies comprehension. The world fell in love with a guy who pushed kid out of a window. We can't say that enough times. Think about that. Which just one more time with him here at the end as he made this final fearful choice. What about thirty? Yes. Well, you know, only one of the most complex and powerful magnetic characters in this show reduced a standing on about Gotti sipping wine. For those Eason didn't even have wine. The we wanted to see flex, and there's nothing wrong with any female character showing emotion, but isn't one to stand in cry. As plan crumbles around her she's the one who makes plans crumble and often on her own. But that's the tragic aren't ear for character. That's why we were so sure you're on other golden company would turn on her. Yes, sir. She overplaying her hand trying to avoid her fate in the coming to her, foes, is what she does thing. And we got so little of that speaking of your on quick difference to talk about our favorite. Eyeliner loving pirates. This is the guy who took out ragle. I'll never get over it. And then lost to the sun to the brightness of the sun. Astonishing his death really sums up the shortcomings of this rendition of the character. It's an electrically weird and fun performance. Yes, shouts to lose Instagram. Incredible Instagram back to surf daddy in season two, she told sonza the more people, you love the weaker you are. But in the end love for Jamie was her only redeeming quality display, what Tyrian would say about eight. Did you know that she loves her children? It was just her and Jamie. And they're loving the end saying she loved her children, Earl of. Children led her to commit numerous atrocities as this evening. But it made her fight for something without that love for Jamie for her children. The love for her family. We saw when she was isolated how unmortgaged she really became she basically had for season. Eight you're on who was a punt for her guy burn guy, and the mountain before Jamie's return as she watched her kingdom meltdown. Her jokes depose the balcony shots from this episode washing, the destruction her failure against the winds of winter shots of her looking out on her horrifying triumph. But Trump nonetheless, Khyber rights much-needed unintentional comedy in this episode by running through the laundry list of things that they thought would lead them to victory and ultimately proved utterly. In the end across the iron fleet the golden company, safety of the red kid cross Bozell destroyed, you agrees make the I N, fleet bigger ones. The I fleet is a flame year his unbelievable. So after Tiber becomes just a smear on the stairs, search runs to the map. It's map place, quite a role in this episode where Jamie Feinstein, they meet in the same area where they lost parted in the season, seven finale and their tears and they're palpable. Love for each other is so infectious that even though we are Jamie, branch shippers here. It was really hard not to get very wrapped up and very emotional watching this unfold. Even if it was what you wanted they make their way to the dungeon to try to escape his plan. But of course, everything's blocked. I don't wanna die. You don't be the game revealed commentary about how she's quote, just a girl here at the end who needs comfort of a man is. Phone while known deaf. Brutal. This is bad and not at all how we. Not at all. You read this scene as two broken people who suffered through hell and often, 'cause their own hell. Yes, realizing they've just run out of moves. They've run out of escapes. Look at me, Jamie says nothing else matters. Nothing else matters only us, it's an idea. We've often heard from them in book and show recall season, one until you and I are the only people left in the world. She's in seven. I'm the only one you have left our children are gone are gone. It's just you and me now or game of thrones Ned, Jamie. And I are more than brother and sister. We are one person in two bodies. We shared a womb together, he came into this world holding my foot rolled, Maistre said or storm. I cannot die. We'll see lives, we will die together as we were born together. Feast for crows will leave this world together as we once came into it, and they hold each other is the castle caves in around them. And maybe wanted cooler death, Jamie. Certainly I certainly did. But the symbolism here, feels right there in the bowels of the castle. The red keeps womb search his ambition is caving down on them. Tilin legacy crumbling, by the way, one of the biggest losers of this episode is time. Yes. Who's now only living kin is tearing Lancaster who he hated and back to the death imagery, the heirs of Cassie rocker literally crushed under cascading rock. Yeah. I wanted more. I wanted. I mean you could have have them in there. But the fact that there's no conflict at all with generis. It's like we shoud the night king in order for this grand showdown. And then we don't really get it. It's just like oh shit. You have to go. I like the symbolism of that moment. But agree about the actual nature death. There's also the way they're posed in this moment of death, which recalls, the Duma Valeria home that Tyrian Giora once recited to each other. They held each other close turn their backs upon the end. The any is brought down her own room on king's landing much to the horror of the two men, her advisers who shared those words in season. Five, the doom that brought down her homeland she's now bringing down her own version of that. Interestingly, also genius, prophetic dream storm of swords about dying. Underground in place that he does. Does not recognize but is certain is not Casserly rock. So couldn't that foreshadow this type of end, dying underground, and some sort of dungeon in the right keeper elsewhere. He's with brianna dream after sources left him. So that's a crucial distinction. But still intriguing to consider prophecies as this death reinforced aren't always what we think though, the Vallon car. Portion of prophecy, never made it into the show book reason show watches, who've learned the prophecy alike, have long felt it certain that genie would kill instead Danny another younger sibling. Did Danny was also clearly, maggie's younger and more beautiful Queen? Sorry. Sorry. We did get a brief moment of searching Jamie standing to the fingers on the neck of the map. I thought that might happen and technically I just think the show is not that remember when I said, like back episode three winner fell, I was like they're not gonna do stuff like that. It's not going to be anything cooler subtle, with that SCA very deep nod to book, Lauren theory. This is a show in which. Again is like, yes, I'm I'm rivers. You know what I mean? Like they're just not going to do it on. Never get. But that was not knowing his name, and technically Jamie's hand is on her neck tie, but he's not choking her will their desk, given the Vallon car presence of the books, be different. Danny be the one there to one last time, we'll predate the Arne of always thinking Tyrian when he was the one who kept trying to appeal to better nature and the baby and keep her alive on the show. Literally, every third out of his like search Lee. You know, she loves her kids in the end. Despite often repeated at Tyrian failed and tragically bran loss, Jamie and many of us lost our favorite ship in one of our favorite characters or in some cases to favor characters, but as usual got her victory in the end you love her. She told Jamie right before her death in season. Seven you really do love her. You poor full, she'll be the end of you. And she was just this and said and season, eight episode to she never fooled. You, you always knew what she was. And you loved her anyway. And it turned out whether we liked it or not. The Jamie did until the end the gain bowl at last. Yes. Certainly, one of the most hyped fan theories that we've had in the great crossover theory. We always knew that we were getting this after the summit of the dragon pit when the hound walked up to his brother and said you knows coming for you. That was a promise and we got it. Yes. And it was I don't know, for me like the most operatic, and visually stunning. Portion of the episode. Yeah, it was hauntingly mesmerizing and almost beautiful in as sad, and savage way stunningly, choreographed the smash cuts between what was happening with the hand of what we're having with aria. We're gonna talk about aria and the hound separately in a few minutes. But that's still really reinforced, powerfully the simultaneously shared journey that they've had in their divergent paths in the end and like the hound himself. The seminal showdown had this objection of much-needed comedy and relief amid the horror, sir sees, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. I'm just going to scoot by tiptoe down the stairs, after the mound, disobeys her kills Khyber. She goes past the mountain Khyber corpse and the hound, not an episode. Heavy on levity. We've really needed a moment like that. Do you think that, that was just a moment on that day shooting where they were just like okay, so wait? How does see passer and they're just just just just tiptoe past, and he doesn't attack her for whatever reason, thirsty, walk like you see a goblet of wine down at the bottom of the stairs, act. Like your ex just walked into a party incredible Meam. Yeah. Speaking of. Khyber n-. I'm really sorry for you. Is a great way for him to go. Honestly you lost a lot this week though you lost the prospect of the next getting's I on just devastating. It's a loss, you're suffering. I want to be here to support you talk about it. And you also high burn, who I think it's fair to say is one of your truest muses of the last few years, honestly, the muses, really Pisces. Khyber an inspiring isn't a road trip. Power frogs. Only Ramesh high cell is the left you say that, but I've never had come alive. Quite the way you did when you contemplated. Whether Khyber was trying to masturbate with the severed hand of the why it was. No question in my mind. That's doing. I listen to this about my guy. Keyboard, I laughed out loud. He got his head crushed. And it was also, you know there's some symmetry there. Because of course, the mountain was sent by Taiwian Lancaster into makers hold fast to kill Elliott Martel and regard, targe areas, children, and one of the ways he did. It was smashing the children's heads against walls. And here he is, again, doing it with Khyber n- speaking of symmetry, though. Yeah. There's another form of symmetry to, which is with the night king with the white walkers. Yes. Ultimately, coming back to destroy the children of the forest their creators. This is a theme in not only the story, but across literature, you make a thing to be the source of your power, then it is your undoing. All right. Peter Khyber RIP and you know what fans business and all that I maintained? I think we both agree with this, that when a certain thing that the fan base wants also aligns with the plot goals of the story. That's the key just go for it. Yep. There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that. I wouldn't even call us fan service Morrisseau as a thing that everybody expected to happen, because it had been foreshadowed. Yep. And really wanted to happen and made a lot of sense. We've got it absolutely. And the spectacle of this particular sequence of gamble, the grandeur of it the horror of it brought a lot of interesting callback to prior prior fights prior encounters that we've seen over not only with these characters, but over the course of the show, the hound is continually stabbing the mountain. And as you noted earlier the blade makes no impact, including when it goes through his brain. And she'd there of John fighting the white in Lord commander, more monce chambers way back in season one and that, that. Moment, when John and the viewer alike, realize this thing isn't normal. This isn't going to go down the way that I would expect on, like the whites were part of the white walkers, army, the army of the dead, the mountain did seem to have some agency, and we had gotten this little hint of it the prior season six. When Jamie asks oh, does he understand what we're talking about in the mountain kind of YouTube and Jamie to get him to jump a little bit in Khyber and says he understands well enough in here? We saw ultimately the payoff of that which was that he was able to show some agency in defying sources orders. Now, we don't know if that's because he actually had complete control of his rat, or some kind of primal, instinctive urge to kill his brothers, Ackley something base. Yeah. Some of the other combat call Bax. Are you telling the hound someday? I'm going to put a sword through your eye. And the back of the skull. Instead, he does this to Gregor another dagger through the moment, Jamie with jewelry. That was very sad. Jury man, I remember the thing that haunts me about that is Joyce still breathing like. Go. Thing is I the mountain grabbing the sword in his guts with his hands just as the hounded when battling Brienne, and of course, the mountain goes for that I conduct eyeball brother just as he did with devastating effect against Oberlin Martell. The prince Dohrn scary moment, I was terrified sheets. Have OSHA to describing Bruny's attack when her lover came back is a white, and she had to Pfeiffer life against him. What did she say about it? He hardly seemed to notice, but there's more at play here, obviously than the violence, there's all of the horror, and the heartache that stemmed from initial violence in that has spawned the subsequent violence boiling to the floor the way that does here reflected in the sky roiling around the castle crumbling around them just as relationship just as their trust crumbled, so long ago when the mountain pressed his brothers face into the flames, and they are, of course, literally on a stairway at this point to nowhere. As the castle is disintegrating, one of the stronger messages, in an episode that often obscured, what seemed to be longstanding morals games in the story. The hound stance has been clear. Hates is good thing is to keep a person going, he has said better than most the setting of this tool like Sanders. Alternate message to aria reinforces that when hate is all there is when it's the only thing you have in your life, you have nowhere to go. There's nowhere at the end of the stairs, the stairs, don't lead you anywhere else, but to that hate and the culmination of that hate in this case, the flames. Speaking of those flames could there have been a more fitting end for these two whose hatred of each other was really forged in fire recall that as young boys? The mountain at a young age already had a reputation fearful reputation for violence and was freakishly large caught his brother playing with one of his toys took his face pressed it into the family fireplace. Thus giving. King sand or those horrific burns on his face and having him walk away with that fear of flames. Fire that haunted him in every battle seemingly, we saw him. But the how also showed something else love can conquer fear even for the hound. That was the one thing that could at times, be stronger than his hate. He told aria that the only thing he cared about was revenge that defined his life. But before they got that moment on the map where he says that when they're back at winter fell, he said something that was the equally. True, he said, I fought for you didn't I and he did. And then he did it again, when she was in peril during the long night, the only site, the only thing that was able to pull him out of his flame induce terror, and into action was seeing aria in jeopardy that ended up being the stronger force are also the ones whom the hound opens up in the show about his childhood hor, quote, the worst thing was that it was my brother who did it. And my father who protects them told everyone my betting caught. Fire? You think you're on your own. And this is such a humanizing moment for character who stunningly wound up being one of the most important on the show for allowing us to glimpse, the humanity and pain below that scarred, exterior and show us how despite a life of violence, how someone's life can change when the ones who are supposed to protect them fail them. Instead, that's an idea, we can apply to many of the characters to. Yeah. So many really powerful and poignant messages from the hounds character in his journey the validity of fear how real the forces that shape. Your life are even if other people don't understand them. They're really using the real. That's an important thing for people to see, especially in this package of Groff toughness where you wouldn't expect that kind of vulnerability in a force, like that, to have an impact. I was that was an important message for people. Yes. The inverse, of course, is the mountain for whom the interior and the exterior fully matched job on the. Oh my God. The pro the makeup's in the prosthetics, Fred will I think they said on the game revealed that it was eight hours seven and a half. Eight hours. We might good. He had to get there at midnight for eight AM shoot. It's insane. It's not what you on. Can you sleep during the I don't know. That's a good question. Maybe that varies person to person whether you are individually capable sleeping while someone is putting a full body, pus prosthetic on you. But for him the year old became fully Representative of what had always been there within this foul vile. Diseased thing when the hound knocks off the mountains. Helmets is one of the better moments even before all of the as you said operatic, -ly stage sword clashes in the ultimate tumble into the fire Knox's home off, and he sees his face. What does he say? Yeah, that's you. That's what you've always been always been a monster in the books, we do not have definitive proof that either is still alive at this point. But readers uses. Sure, as you can get without it, being confirmed are sure that the grave digger and sir. Robert strong are hound in the mountain respectively. Will we get the same showdown on the printed page, honestly, who knows with that who knows knows about anything, but we got it here in full sudden turns this felt earned and fully realized absolutely the hound may be gone. But aria still with us her run through the city interestingly was originally supposed to be a one shot. Learn about this on the game revealed, but they decided to intersperse her journey with the hounds, which, as we said, is really fitting, given what this episode tells us about their shirt history and hopefully contrasting futures when the hound aria met on the road after leaving winter fell last up now and said, I don't plan on coming back. REO said, neither do I in. Maybe that's still true for her. But after this episode it seems like if it is it won't be because she gave up her life, and her pursuit, search e it will be because she chose another way they sneak through the northern camp with horrifying ease once again. I have a question for you. I love to hear it. How is anyone alive cow is anyone in west rose, as I've learned arts like this. Unbelievable. How on alert everyone is from the watch captains on the decks of any number of naval vessels throughout the series. I always I always think back, even though ultimately was people on the same side. Ed just leading brand Mira into castle black because Brown was like you're at the fist of the first man. He's like, like sounds good. Come on in. Yeah. I tweeted everyone I knew about that. Like anyone could have I will say that one thing there is a kind of aspect of that. I do appreciate which is that. Listen in medieval warfare, which is based on, you know, the foot soldiers were just like farmers and stuff, levies, lords would be like okay are high Lord or king has called us to battle, therefore, I must take x percent of the battle aged males. You have to stop farming and being leather? Smiths. And whatever it is you're doing now and you need to come with me and fight. And these people would not be trained soldiers so, like I guess, there's a world in which this guy gets put on guard duty. And he's like a Tanner. Yeah. It's like no one gets a soup from Davos. Right. And it's like I don't, hey I don't know. I don't belong here. I don't know how to do stuff. Yeah, I don't know how to do more stuff. So I guess there's a world, which makes sense still horrifying lack of security continues. They reached the map room in the red. Keep the map that represents really how much distance they and so many other cares covered both in terms of actual geography land in motion. The hotels are go home. Good, firewood. Get a one of the threat, maybe that dragon leader doesn't matter dead. You'll be do if you don't get out of and Arias like I'm gonna kill her. She's been on the list, and what you think you'd want to prevent longtime after on my life. I care about. Could be. You won't be like me. He puts his hand on her neck very tenderly. Yeah, you come with me, you die here, and so really chastened by what he says, she walks away and calls him by his real name, very touching moment to give Sander. Thank you. So people might say, not unreasonably wall. Why did it take until the moment that they were fully in the bowels of the capitol to arrive at? Another pacing, and plotting contrivance. And that's again, that's fair. But at least in this case, the puzzling plotting delivered something really fulfilling in meaningful for characters we care about Oreo, and the hound as we've talked about a lot have unlocked, so much for each other. And here he's telling her that she doesn't have to live the kind of life that he has one ruled by hate in dictated by vengeance and their bond has been one of the unlikeliest in the series, a head of the battle of windfall. Aria moved briefly away from it in what it represented to pursuer humanity to be with injury. But so many of those who fought in the battle fell back into their old ways right away, including obviously, Jamie, this moment was are in the hound more than what came before the battle with the night, king forces are to do, what sonza talked about with Tyrian in the crypts and episode. Three. Look the truth in the face the truth of what shoes violence and horror would mean for the rest of her life. There's also the parallel to the look at me exchange between the hounded and back Beckett season two and it's really interesting to consider how much the hound has impacted the stark girls lives in general, like both sisters. He told sonza in really, I think one of the philosophically, most important bits of dialogue in this tale, especially with what we are discussing in this episode. Yes, yeah, he everyone's a killer dialogue. Her father's brothers. In one day, her sons will be all killers, and he needed to be a killer at the end, but he also needed to save someone else from that fate, remember season six broken Man, Ray said, violences disease. You don't cure a disease by spreading to more people you cook sucker. His response in the moment was disheartening. You don't cured by dying either. But here he proved he's had that come to brother Ray moment. He understands that it's too late for him. But maybe not too late for you. Yes. Our journey throughout the rest of the episode, of course, is consumed by violence despite her not pursuing violence, conservancy, despite her letting go last of the kill list, that had been her nightly prayer since urine taller, outta make it. So she serves as our primary avatar on the ground for the battle lens through, which we perceive, so much of the horror, that's unfolding, and she's served that role for us for so much of the story. Think about how she was the one in the crowd during nets beheading. When we felt that thirst, one among the crowd she was among the prisoners at Harran hall, she came across all the small folk touched by war in the river lands time. And again, she's helped us see how this affects other people. And remember, her face another time she was among the small folk this time in winter town, her glee when she saw Danny's dragons in the first episode of season, eight and compare that to her face here in this episode as she sees the slaughter on, folding around her here dragons, or odd Spiring wonders, but they also unleash terror. And so we gotta ask as aria written away from hate from vengeance from violence, the hound wanted, or she riding away from sir c and toward Danny essentially just changing the target of her vengeance in violence in the game revealed. Macy says she seen a lot of things, but this is mass destruction in it's pretty sickening. What will the impact be the episode ends with aria miraculously alive, despite numerous head injuries and near death experiences and inhaling ash? Certainly the ash for buildings and from people, please give her helmet at an inhaler like mesothelioma for sure. Now. After taking the charred bodies of the mom and the daughter she couldn't save and seeing the burnt white horse toy in the child's hand, then she looks up. And she sees the real thing, and actual white horse, covered in blood waiting to carry away, which calls to mind, quake, remember quake, we do, of course, quakes pale. Mayor prophecy from dance of dragons fifth book in the series. No hear me nearest target. The glass candles are burning hall. The glass can wish we get glass candidate. Got those glasses. Glass cables burning soon comes the pale mayor. And after her the others cracking dark lame blind Griffin. The sun sun, the Mummers, dragon crowd -able grams trust, none of remember the undying the perfume centre. The pale mayor is the bloody flux disease destruction. And death is aria symbol for that for Danny's rain right now. It's a great question. This imagery, also call something else the book of revelations the four horsemen of the apocalypse. I looked in there before me was a pale horse. It's writer named death in Hades was following close behind him. Oreo, of course, has played the role of death throughout much of the series, serving the many face God, offering up names acting as a watered answer in a faceless man to exact vengeance rid the world of her foes, and eventually the army of the dead. So does the speak symbolically to her role in the story to this point certainly could it also speak to the next phase of her journey will, she be the Gandalf figure on shadow fax another icon? I love it, bringing once again, some type of dawn or will. She be a horseman the innocence of king's landing, her new mica motivations for new round of slaughter. It's crazy. How quickly. Are you has just moved on from mica? It's actually wonderful like it's just shows you like how whatever happens here at the end. Yeah. The places that this show has been able to take characters point eight point beat a point, cedar point Z or you so strident. Her hatred of the hound for running down mica her? I played friend to now really valuing and respecting the hound as a person is really maisy. That's the kind of thing that I think both of us and so many people are holding onto amid this creep of Nile is on, and these questions about what the character ourselves mentally meant if some of them ended in the places they did a message like that is that you can change and that you can grow and the choices that you make do matter. And that's I think what we hopefully will be able to hold on most the end. Jason. Yeah. It isn't safe here. Any longer the unsullied of breached the gates of the podcast studio Maigore, hold fast would be a better place to wait out the storm. But since that does look very safe anymore either. Please assemble the conclave head to the citadel instead to teach us everything we need to know about the history of king's landing. When Avon targeting came shore, at the mouth of the blackwater near three hills, a small fishing village the area had been under dispute by various petty kings, for centuries, the ruins of many forts towers crowned the top of the tallest hill soon to be known as Egon high hill, a rough, log, and dirt fort was thrown up the on fort it consisted in its earliest form of literally just a pilot dirt guys with a log fortification on top all enclosed by timber wall. The two other hills were named for a gun sister, wives Vicini's hill. And the hill of rain is two years later, west Ross minus Dohrn was under Egon control, in this unassuming rise of land on the banks of the blackwater fast on its way to becoming the largest city in west coast, when Aegon named king's landing capital, the realm was prized people expected him to select dragging stone, the seat of tar Garin power for over a century, and once the westernmost outpost of the Valerian empire where the king spent most of his time when he wasn't touring his realm or perhaps old town. The citadel at the time the biggest, and of course, the oldest city on the continent, the New York City of westerns, but as Egon saw king's landing had natural advantages the location at the mouth of the wide river, emptying into a bay on the narrow sea was made for trade, twenty five years into Aegon's rain king's landing was already the third largest city in western a true BoomTown security, though, was a concern. It was initially thought that potential enemies would not dare test, the might of the tar Gary and dragons. So the city unlike virtually every other major population center in western had no defensive walls a boon for the exponential growth city was undergoing, but a dangerous vulnerability, so construction on walls began in twenty a scene was completed by twenty six. The walls were built as tall and thick and strong. As those that safeguarded old town last port. Seven gates, a number pick for its importance to the faith of the seven all guarded by towers and gate houses allowed access to the city. Let's talk about some of the notable ones here. Let's see. There is the mud gate. Which is closest to the river. That's where Tyrian Lancaster led the defense of king's landing during the battle of the blackwater Kingsgate leads out to the tournament grounds where sonza witness. Procure, sir. Hugh of the Vale get spiked in the throat by the mountain bad beat very, very tough the Lionsgate gate, leads to the golden road, which Jamie used to bring the wealth of the reach back into king's landing the gate of the gods empties out onto the kings road. And in the books time. Landers just corpses transported back to casually rock via the gate of the gods. After the walls were finished that left a matter of the Royal house, the tour, Gary and seat of power was still the Avon fort though, the timber stronghold had undergone numerous renovations and been expanded several times. We're talking about log cabin guys. It's clearly not fit for the one true, king of west rose, his family, and his descendants so thirty five Avon ordered this giant, log cabin dismantled to make way for proper castle. Dudas living a log cabin. For thirty five years. The government was moved to dragon stone and construction began when he died, only two years later, his son, Amos Amos took over couple things about anus turn here. Yeah. Number one. Yes. That's how you pronounce it. Amos. Another thing. He's the second target area and king. You get it number two. Anus number two. It's great jar of Martin folks. What did genius? Amos took a special interest in the construction of the red keep my descendants shall rule from here for thousand years. He said before dying over five years into his rain from a combination of stress related to a number of insurrections in the realm and probably some poisoning, which was used a hasten his demise so that his brother may gore could take the throne upon Amos's death may go return from exile Pinto's to claim the throne and usurp Amos's son a gone just incredible trying to say anus puzzle because that's his name Amos targeting the second king of west rose the deuce may like is father, brother, took a personal interest in the keeps construction, but with the realm in turmoil largely, but not only due to the belligerence of the faith militant and armed extremist wing of the faith of the seven, if you the target area in tradition of incestuous marriages in front of their religious beliefs, and we're willing to fight and die to change that mayor decided to drastically alter the. Keeps plans in order to ensure the safety of the Royal family, new billers brought in and secret. Passages were installed a fortress, within the castle known as Megan's, hold fast was constructed to house, the Royal apartments, the hold fast is a square keep surrounded by a wide dry, moat with metal spikes and high walls, twelve feet thick, a drawbridge spanning the mode is the only way interrupt of the fortress, at least one member of the king's guard is always on guard. They're finally once the red keep was completed may or just a Superfund guy, invited all the builders to a massive celebration. Feast yeah, yeah. Great job. Everybody. And there he had them killed so that the secrets of the red keep would never be revealed. Tough look for my guy make work very, although it is rumored that one escaped. That's a story for another day, who knows now as for sees declaration, that the red keep has never fallen, not true, sir. See no student of history, of course. But she. Probably should've remembered that at the very end of Robert's rebellion her father Thailand, Lancaster, infamously sacked king's landing after peering at the gates and being like I'm a friend. Let me in. Nope, Taiwan's forces brutally destroyed the city and time when sent handpick men racing across town to secure the road. Keep which they did. And then the mountain armory, Lord, scaled, the walls of makers, hold fast got inside and murdered Elliot Martell, the Royal children that story of king's landing thread, keep makers hold fast bell. Cheerful male literally bells for all of those structures awful. I'm just going to say that make our sold fast should have been innocence. Hold fest history would have been brighter. Put them in Amos's. Hold fast, raise the drawbridge tightened security around. Eight is his hold fast. I honestly don't know how Georgia's did it. I just love that the second king. So it's number two. It's like Georgia. Great stuff majority greatly was eight is how do we get into Anna's hold fast? I don't know prune juice. Sure has some of those plums sitting around still. Bird drinks produce. Wait two hours, then be able to get it to eight is his old fast. Now, look at me, you wanna be like me. Yeah, you come with me, you die. Oh, come with me anyway, because it's time to head to the sept- confusing. Of the seven by sharing. Seven favorite tidbits from this episode lightning round style? You go first. Number one, sock about dear sweet, Martha tough stuff for Martha child kitchen, hand, would be poisoner, if you saw she looked for million, but couldn't quite place for rest shored. You haven't seen her before. She was one of the children huddled next Varis in the crypts of winter fell. No safer place, after the dead Stark's began rising from their tombs. We can't say for sure whether verisign already turned Martha into one of his little birds before the battle. And that's why he was keeping her close amid the terror or whether he turned her right there in the depths of hell, or after but we would not pass Varis to turn the apocalypse to his brief advantage. Just glad he's doing something putting his skill set to some amount of work to seriously loved her children. You guys know that, that makes the air date of this episode particular bitter, see Lancaster whose to redeeming qualities for her low over children, and her cheekbones Tyrian once said died on mother's day. It's one more thing. She shared with Taiwan in the Lancaster patriots season for death. Aired on Father's Day. Just kinda fucked up very. Number three point, hearing bills and battle. Yes, we did in this episode book readers surely couldn't help, but think of the battle, the bills fought at Stony sept- in the river lands during Robert's rebellion after Robert lost the battle that to Reynolds, Harley r I p r I p one defeat us, right? Robert hold up in the town to recover from his wounds. The mad kings nen hand John Kani tin aka the guy who is later, young Griffin, actual champion and the books and get's gray scale in the books ordered a search for Robert. But none of his people could find them and troops arrived at which point, the sept- ins rang their bells to warn the villagers of the impending danger, Robert, who also manages to father a bastard, during this time named Bella quite a multitasker. Bobby always keeping busy. I mean, they joined the fray and giants forces are ultimately defeated. This was a pivotal point in the rebellion. Because it. Caused among other things radar to leave the tower of joy, but it is particularly notable in light of the context of this recent episode of game of thrones because after the defeat John Huntington goes into exile where he is haunted by his decision to act under ably during the battle believing that if you just burned down stoney sept-. He could've ended the war, so so in love with regard. Probably or so. He believes who wasn't who wasn't everybody wanted a piece of that dragon ass. Number four, we spent a lot of time talking about likely rules, but there's another variable to consider heading into the finale, the iron Bank. Yep. Who's paying them the Bravo see institution Bazzi funding acquisition of the golden company. But now you're on in the fable mercenaries are hun. How will the Bank collect I have a prediction, Sarah? We will never find out never go back to this one point. The iron Bank will be kicking it with Dario the reads and Yarra. Traitorous Glover's on on the list goes. Number five, we didn't just lose Sandra and Gregor coup gain in this episode we lost house clogging, one more house. Now extinct, after his last members perished during one of the wars that span, the course of the show, some other fates are less clear, though, what of alario sand in September two prisoners. We know that sir, she had been keeping alive in thread. Keep we assume we have to assume that the wreckage killed them, along with Jamie in so many others, but we don't know for sure. So is this one more thing that will remain in eternal mystery? Or is there any chance that if the casually recently mentioned, prince of PEO DS, I like to call them shows up in the final episode? He might ask after alario, and we thus might get some closure the peo- g. Where's my dude? The peo- de over six despite drones assault of the metalwork and masonry of king's landing bigger crossbows legacy will live on in the opening credits. This week's opening credits changed to include the addition of bigger crossbows top the city gates where dragging stone is not in the credits. Trans despite being a prominent setting the episode. But last hearth is still getting that shine. And speaking of visual cues, Danny had a new outfit, and fittingly. It was most are geared in dragon garb like yet with ripped Ilian scales. The black and red of her house number seven Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers appeared in this episode though, why you know, keep in the streets alive, the Noah Syndergaard Sheeran streak. Very bizarre. Lee. There's a ton of debate about where and went in the episode. He actually appeared some seem to think that he is a Lance Archer atop the walls seen in profile others. That he is a loon runner who turns into an alleyway only get roasted by dragon fire at the seventeen twelve Mark of the game revealed special. We get our most specific information. Dby says quote, there are a lot of people lurking in the background. See if you can find Aaron Rodgers and then we get an interview with Rodgers who was wearing his costume so that costume can then become an identifier for us, including an ash Saad and cap in Aaron Rodgers explains quote, I was helping a woman who was injured sat her down, and then they'll with our I'm getting out of their dragon fire. Apparently the only thing scarier than Khalil Mack blitz. Oh, jason. Yeah. But I tell you now is true, today's winner rule wisely and well. At least we hope each episode. We're going to the person to play the game advance their cause and some tangible way this week. Yes. Winner VAR champions, purses. George are Martin you did it big boy, the discourse on the story has grown increasingly divisive and distressing. And we'll talk sake, but the narrative on George on the upswing. Boy, as everyone again, is like, man, this kind of plot of story, did he not? What vision what world building? And it has us all rooting rooting rooting rooting so hard for him to finish this story, the last installment of which came out eight years ago. Art, George this week has you write a blog post on his blog which is called not blog in which he dispelled rumors that were circulating that he'd already finished both wins a winter and spring, the sixth and seventh books and it just been sitting on them as part of a handshake agreement. The fact that, that rumor was out there is just this felt or not more proof that, Georgia's a winner, because there's all this excitement around as they all this belief in energy around, George people fully opting in again, to saying, give us the pay we believe in your George. We're rooting for you, George gives the pages. Well, it's time to say goodbye owed friends, if it weren't for is that cram are indispensable producer. In researcher we never. Survived this guest, we will be as much fun as we did today. Then you're as excited as we are to continue this journey for a little longer. He'll join us again next week to discuss the serious. Finale of game of thrones? Leave it till then remember nothing else matters, only binge mode. Yes. And when the red keep is finished, I shed a name all the parts of it so that my name should live forever. Yes news, what show you name things, the dungeons, for instance, I will call them Amos's hole. This is whole. Yes. The great hole where I receive visitors. She'll be called Amos's injury. Nooses entry doesn't really roll off the tongue. But that's fine. Yes. And then the kitchen's, the mighty kitchens were the scullery staff will toil to create the great feasts that will feed the Lord ladies of this realm and the Royal family shared be called. Yes. The red kitchens. Oh, okay. That's yes. And all who dine from it shall rejoice at being able to eat Amos's gifts.

Brian Danny Jamie Tyrian John king Tyrians Tyrian Lancaster deniro Jason Concepcion barris Maistre BMW Chris Ryan Spotify Masan Di Davos Mila Sandra Twitter
Grappling With Last Night's Divisive 'Game of Thrones' Episode, "The Bells"

/Film Daily

47:17 min | 2 years ago

Grappling With Last Night's Divisive 'Game of Thrones' Episode, "The Bells"

"Hello, everyone and welcome to slash film. Daily for Monday may thirteenth twenty nineteen. On today's episode. We're taking a break from talking about the latest film and TV news to discuss last night's instantly divisive episode of game of thrones. My name is Ben Pearson. I'm be senior writer at slash dot com. I'm joined today by slash Phil managing editor Jacob hall. Hello Andy, staff writer at noticed. Lindsey romaine. Hello lindsey. Thanks for joining us. I know that you're a big game of thrones fan, and the reason that you're here is because I sort of fall, I guess in in between the two points of view and Jacob on various ends of the spectrum in terms of game of thrones episodes last night. But but before we get into that. Let's talk a little bit about why we're here in our game of thrones phantom overall Jacob do you want to set the timber of this conversation for us? Yeah. I want to have this brief roundabout four begin the conversation. Because when I wrote my very negative review of the long night if you weeks ago, everyone on Twitter accused me of hating game with having access to grind went to actually the most important pub culture item of my entire life of. Reading the books for decade. I've been reading about the show since season one is has been a third of my life dedicated to understand the exploring and loving game of thrones. We'll mix on the most recent seasons. I feel I'm mostly warm on season eight outside of that season three episode. So I feel like whenever we have conversations we need to make sure that we mind people sometimes that we get this passionate because we love the hell out of this stuff and Lindsey nervous. These days you used to write a lot for slash film. And your first the first time we we published. You was when you pitch a game of thrones story. Yeah. Yeah. I've been writing about the show since season two I have largely the same relationship with is you which is that even when I'm down on it. It's a show. I love so much. I can kind of like thank my career for game of thrones. So yeah, I've been watching it. I've read all the books. I'm a huge fan. I just tend to kind of have slightly more negative read on later seasons. And I think it's because I'm such a big fan that it breaks, my heart even more that I don't really love what's going on right now. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle in terms of that stuff as well. You guys have been covering it since the early days I didn't catch up with the show until I think probably about halfway maybe halfway through its second season. But then just been you know, devout follower. I've read all the books and everything since then, and I think I've really enjoyed what has been going on in season eight I think I thought season seven was largely disastrous and I was expecting. To react the same way to what what was another shortened season. But I think I've come away because the show for me has spent so much time concentrating on its characters where I thought of that got pushed to the side in favor of plot stuff in season seven, I think I've really appreciated for the most part what they've done this season with some little qualms along the way. So I guess we broken down this episode into a series of characters and moments, and I think that's a last night's episode. And I think that's a good way to approach this conversation. So we do that. I think can you explain people listening why we felt the need to cancel the regular show. And we're special edition flash. On daily about this episode. How do people how do people react last night? Ben this episode aired? So there was a lot of discussion. I'm sure even people who don't watch game thrones got embroiled in the arguments or positions taken by various members of the phantom online last night. I mean, this is an episode where and we're going to spoil the entire episode and probably every event on the show leading up to last night's episode. So if you're listening to this episode in the hopes that we're not gonna spoil anything maybe two now until you've seen it. So that's just your fair warning here, but you know, tug Aryan burned down king's landing last night. And that is a moment that we can talk about it. And we will talk about here in just a minute. But I think a lot of people have had very very strong reactions to that moment in particular and some of the other stuff that we'll talk about as well. But yeah, I mean, it's a huge moment. It's it's a moment that rattles the very Dacians of game of thrones. And and has shaken a lot of people to their core. So I think. Deserves normally record watercooler episodes on Monday. But this is like the literal watercooler, this is what everybody's talking about. So we decided to push that to later in the week to actually discuss this and dive in with some people who have different opinions on it. So I think that's that's where we are. Right now. Started. Yes. So okay. So Jacob why don't you lead us off? We've got various and Tyrian here as the first one of our little breakdown sections. Is there anything in particular that you wanted to address about those characters in their story lines and how they played out last night they killed Barras? And that was a moment where I realized I can no longer be on teams nearest before. She murdered tens of thousands of innocent people. But there was always been my guy ever since the season one. He told him that stark, I served the realm, and he's always been the guy out to help the little person. And even when he's scheming and backstabbing betraying. He's always been the person who has had the future of millions of people on his mind as you own as opposed to who's on the throne next and the scenery's executed, I deeply sat and moving because I loved when Tyrian touches his arm and tells him those him and not a little finger esque smarmy way, by way of I respect you so much. You're you're my friend, and you deserve. The know that I did this embarrass is understanding a white here. And did it and understanding that he did what he thought was right and facing his death. No as stoically as he could. But Lindsey I want your thoughts embarrassing Tyrian here because I've always loved these two, and I felt this was a sad ending. But maybe the right ending Rivera's about what do you think? Yeah. I've always loved them also. And that's actually this is a round where I I started getting kind of a bad feeling about this upset for myself, which was I guess, I've always seen various as someone who's both, you know, protector of the round, but he's also very self servicing. And a lot of times, you know, he's very occupied with surviving. I felt like he acted a little foolishly. I think his kind of road up to this moment has not tracked for me at all the way that he talked to Tyrian lasts episode about how we need a man ruler. And all of the stuff really backtracked. Everything he said about Danny last season. And I just didn't get the lodge. Leap from how he felt Ben to how it feels. Now. There wasn't really a moment for me where I understood why he did that. And so I guess it didn't fully work for me. And it's around here. I also started to really just be disappointed interior. And that he is someone who I've also always considered someone who would fight for what he believes in in this moment. He knows he believes in the same thing the virus does which is the Danny's. You know scary. And he still kind of betrays his friend to her. I don't know it didn't work for me. I don't hate it though. But I don't know it's interesting because for me, this isn't it could be a show failing in the evening between the lines. But for me, it was always a case of various supported the concept of Tarbert. Ian, we spend time with Danny? And once he did I feel like the first major interaction the show during the winter in a room together is her threatening to kill him in season seven wondering if the intention was to sell Veras as being more and more concerned about her what she's enterprise. Since. But I can understand you seeing that as a failure. Especially since it didn't click for you to waited for me. But Ben, how'd you fall this? Yeah. I mean, I also love verisign. I feel like I feel like it's his actions are justified here because he's he knows that he's out of options. I feel like he has seen the reason. And I don't know this very well could be me making excuses for the shelves. So if it is either one of you please pipe up and let me know. But to me it read as if. Especially last week with various and Tyrian having that conversation, then Lindsey as you alluded to him, basically talking about how we need a man to lead the seven kingdoms. It struck me as deniro was his last hope of an alternative solution to that. But now that he's been up close and personal with her and seen the way that she seen her temperament in action. He realized that maybe he's been putting his ex in the wrong basket, and I don't necessarily think that. I don't know to me. It didn't read necessarily as him being like all right? We have to have a man I just think he means we have to have another candidate. And all the other candidates happened to be men because certainly isn't an option. But what what are you guys make of that? I would agree with that. But he literally says being a man is important to get people behind your back. So I guess if you hadn't had that very specific line. I would maybe agree with you. But he does have that line. And it feels completely opposite of I've I've seen people like splice together scenes from last season in the season where he's just saying the complete opposite thing, and if something had swayed him to the other side, I feel like I could get behind it. But it's there's not been a lot of natural lead leading points to that for me. This is a victim of the shows increased pace where they're making the exit never moving pieces of storyline that maybe they could have had a longer season or do you think they're rushing toward this? Or you think this is a victim of just bad writing? I think it's a little bit of both. Honestly, I think in rushing they've had to make choices that don't always track. And they fall victim to some of that. But I do think that it's not always that hard to just I don't know at a couple of lines. Maybe that make some stuff make more sense. So I don't know exactly where I fall in that. And I have to see I have to wait until the whole like season is done to see how I feel about the pacing there. But I think it's a little bit of bad writing. Honestly. All right. Let's move to tearing Jamie. So that's another pairing Tyrian is involved with here. And this is the scene in particular when Tyrian visits Jamie who's been captured, and he frees him essentially repays the favor that Jamie did for him way back at the end of that season four I think so we wrote Jacob you and I wrote. About this in our review that's up. It's dot com. Right now, you can read that will Lincoln in the show notes. But for me, there tearful goodbye really worked because -tarian reminding the audience that Jamie was the only person who ever treated him like a human being when they were both children just sort of underlined, the idea that both of these guys are sort of fundamentally opposed to cruelty, and I know that they've both done cruel things in their past. But I don't know. I it struck me as. Both of these guys know what the end game is. They know what they know the right thing to do in this situation. And they it's it's difficult to even to even verbalize, but Jacob what what was your read on their meeting. And and how the I guess there was their final meeting on how the show reconcile these two characters for the last time. I flicked that's one thing that always tied together is their love for one another. I mean Tyrian loves family says he says it's very beginning. And he loves Jamie, and and even after easy, no portrayed, sir. She and killed his father. There's an unshakable bond between these two where? Hidden deep down. Tyrian was good, man. That's good warm-hearted, man. He's not a coincidence that Tyrians bad decision making started when he started trying to become actively better decent person. Whereas as discuss a little later, Jamie fell off the wagon when it came to becoming a better person. And I I it both at their core. See the person that they both want to be evenly both struggle to reach that. And I like having. Having them had this final interaction where Tyrian wants to rescue his family from the spinal fate. That's going to befall them was important to remind us that he's not a stupid, man. He's acting of emotion, but it's not coming out of nowhere. I I do think the scene was very moving. If on the nose, and I can't wait for Lindsay. Tell me why. I'm incorrect. Just bracing myself as a little time because I don't wanna just like crap over everything because you're saying because I do think that the emotions of the scene are very well done. And I do think that you know, these are characters who have this Wallner ability for each other and really love each other. So I think their final moments together, the emotion was well, but I have to say that the scene was easily my least favorite scene in all game. Why is that? Why is that? It's because the this is to me were Jamie's arc is completely assassinated. And it has nothing to do with, sir. See, I actually don't really mind. The he came back for C. We can talk about that more later, but the line that he has where he says that he doesn't care about the people of king's landing is in complete contrast to literally everything we know about Jamie, which is that he killed the mad king to save all of king's landing and lived with the title oath breaker for his entire life knowing that he did the right thing. And that's why he had that title. And he was okay with that to me. That's the part of Jamie. That's so interesting is that he's able to like do these deeds of good, and he has the goodness inside a fan. But he also has the stark survey thing kind of pulling him back so for him to just like flippantly act like he never cared about people can landing when he has that seeing with Brian back in what season three where he, you know, emotionally cries about how he saved everybody. Just really really upsets me Jamie's my favorite character in. That was just heartbreaking for me. Honestly. Well, yeah, that's a very strong argument. And it's very difficult to argue with. So I think I was re reacting more to the emotions especially in the performances, and that's one of the things that I've seen a lot of people say even people who seem to hate the season. Everybody seems to agree to the performance is across the board have really been on fire. And I think Peter Gingrich and neglect crossed. Waldo did especially really great work here except for that line which. Yeah, as as you bring that up as you mentioned that now, I'm just sort of flashing back through the show and how it's characterized, Jamie. And how that particular line doesn't really track their Jacob. Do you have any sort of rebuttal to that? Or any way that you're able to reconcile that line with what, you know, Jamie. My knee jerk reaction is at Jamie is posturing, but the same time that line is a mistake. And she's right. Lindsay is right here. And I wish lie. Wasn't there? Because I think everything else has seen really does play for me. And I think those to have such strong chemistry, and I and I by the decisions they're both making in these moments. Jamie desire to get to internalize turns out here to save. His brother are both decisions. I understand to my core. And now that Lindsay's reminded me of this lie. I'm not gonna have shaken it's driving. Crazy. I'm so sorry. I really I agree with you guys. I d like the rest of the scene, but I just can't I think maybe if my Jamie love wasn't so strong. I wouldn't have quite fat negative reaction. But it just really I just felt my heart like break in half with that happened thinking back on it. It's such. I mean, I think he used the word flip, and it is such a flip in line. It's almost like a like a joke response to something that Tyrian said, and it would be so easy for him to just not say that and the posturing thing, maybe if there was a crowd around, but it's just the two of them. There's no reason for him to put any walls up. Yeah. That's a a big blunder. I think all right. Let's let's get into the big most divisive point of this entire episode. Which is the war crimes of the nearest star Garin and what she does to king's landing Lindsey. I wanna start with you. What did you make of Danny's decision here? Did you think that the show I guess not accurately conveyed, but effectively conveyed her her turn to the mad Queen? And do you think there was enough ground track laid there for this decision to make sense for you? No for me. This doesn't work really at all. It's not so much the decision that she goes mad because I do agree with people that there has been a lot of stuff kind of hinted at a she's expressed the desire to burn cities before and had to be kind of talking back. I guess for me it's kind of a balancing act of I don't know that her going full like apocalyptic really tracks with everything that's happened. I'm more concerned about it from a larger perspective of what it this show is saying about how women with power rule, and how the second that women are given power they let their emotions control it, which is something that I think sends sends a message that I don't personally relate enjoy appreciate. But I'm interested to hear what you guys think about this. We can get back into that Moore had the same conversation with a game thrown for those safety of watching with for a decade. And so moving in my group felt the same way you didn't in some do not. I feel very unqualified to comment on it. Because as a white male. You know, my my initial kneejerk reaction was oh game of thrones. Let's women be villain. Sue, that's great, which is not maybe the healthiest reaction, and maybe the most astute one, and I'm trying to pay attention and listen to why people are upset by this cause because at the same time, I enjoy the concept of evil and evil seriously going to head to head so much as a character thing that my mind wasn't even thinking about the larger implications of that in a way that you know, I'm happy to listen to an NBA educate about because ultimately this did work for me. Because I I like the idea that all of the nearest is previous, you know, her roic moments, if you'd from a skewed point of view are massacres that's her committing genocide, sir. Crucifying people in burning people to the ground in destroying cities in the name of a at that population did not support. And the reason I've always embraced game of thrones book struck me and Ben nyah abouts before. Written about before is a concept of Georgia. Nut writing fantasy as much writing a depiction of of history of a fantasy world where things are messy horrible and not and they're not messing horrible because he wants to subvert things that's daily, but it must be horrible because real world history. And the way people will fight wars and the way they win wars is always painful and the winners. Right. The truth, and employees and Bonaparte said history is a lie agreed upon and won over by the idea that denarius has is, you know, one person's hero one person's Dylan or whatever she falls between. And for me that is powerful and upsetting. And exactly why embrace the books before the show would why I love the show in the first place. But Ben, you're also a white, man. But so I like to hear your thoughts on this before before I returned Lindsey because I really. That Lindsay's notes here or something. Like like, I said are nothing the cross my mind and should not be disregarded. But the same time, I guess on the complete different off of them off this episode. But what do you think perhaps unsurprisingly I sort of had the same initial reaction that you did where I almost viewed this as like, maybe not quite a fully progressive decision. But like an interesting one looking at it from that angle as in sort of what you lose it to like, oh, you know, Danny is a flawed character. Who has you know, like Jamie, Jamie's one of my favorite characters for some of the reasons that Lindsey mentioned earlier like the idea that he can do so many different things, and it all tracks in an all it seems like, you know, different facets of one flawed human being the idea that Danny would make this decision. Struck me as like, oh, this is just the show doing that. But for its lead female character. And I am interested in seeing where it goes here. But at the. Same time you have to be able to put that idea right next to the real world reality that there aren't very many women behind the scenes on the show. You've got, you know, Benny often Weiss's the show runners, you you have I think one female director over the course of the entire series whose only directed a ha-, you know, less than five episodes of the whole thing out of what seventy something that we're on right now. And and there aren't any. I think Vanessa Armstrong who's like an maybe a producer at one point eight guys. It's Ben just coming in for a quick correction. That's Vanessa Taylor. Not Vanessa Armstrong who is a co executive producer on the show for two seasons. Okay. Back to the episode. She sort of helped shape some of the stories, but you don't really have any women in the writing in the writer's room as well. So I think. Obviously, we can go back and forth about whether you know, how the show would have been different. If those decisions were made. And I think the answer is everything across the board would have probably been improved not just the female characters. But Lindsay, what can you just tell us a little bit more a more about the burden of representation that rests on the shoulders, and and you can bring in you know, any sort of metrics jewel elements that you want here, but why did this decision sort of ring false to you in that way? I guess for me it rings falls a little bit because I guess even bringing false. Maybe isn't the right word. It's something where on paper. I don't mind the idea that this is what happens to Danny. It's in the nuance of some of it. And it's in the decision. So it's all male storytellers as you guys said, even George Martin is a man using women to kind of do what you were saying. So doing this the burden of having to be the villains in the. This moment. So it's Danny facing off against sir c and that's really what this is. It's kind of a showdown between these two women and you have to ask yourself. Why did they choose women to tell the story in this particular parts of the story, and what is the purpose of showing both of these two women basically failing by their emotions. So it's both of these women who have been looking for power. The only woman really who've been seeking power in the show and the second that they have power Danny gives them to her grief in this episode. That's kind of what a media Clark has been saying in the after the sewed, I don't know how much we want to bring that into. But I can see that in the show to you know, she's clearly upset about the loss of her dragon about the loss of her friends and that fuels her decision, and it just feels very irresponsible to me. I feel like a woman would have found a way to give that a little bit more nuance. I don't know specifically what I would have done. But I don't know. I think that's what I'm wrestling with here. I trust me here. Clark describes it is grief. Because all I could think about was the end of season three where she liberates marine and his held aloft on the shoulders of all the people in the color Michel to call her mother. And she this woman who's been told her entire life. The west rose is waiting for his liberator. They drink secret host your name, and she arrives here and doesn't get that. And for me, I felt less about grief more about revenge against the people who destroyed her family, and then turn around and not welcome back into me that is a harder truth, and it's harder to take. And we've taken more time to set up properly by more satisfying read. So that I'm glad you brought that up Jacob because I read that in our I read that you wrote that in our recap, and I didn't really have a place in our recap to disagree with your there. But I I'm glad that we're talking about this now because I didn't really get that at all. Like, I I understand how that reaction would make sense. And I don't think that it's there in the show. I think if you know you've got Danny on drug on's back on the gates of the city. The bell rings, and she is staring at the red keep the whole time. If she was looking down sort of at the the people that she was about to burn and really, you know grappling with her decision. Maybe having a look of disgust on her face or something looking at the actual people instead of this symbol of of certainty and her power, I think I would maybe be more inclined to agree with that read. But to me, it didn't really seem like Danny was punishing the people of west roasts for not greeting her giving her the queen's welcome that she hoped it didn't read like that to me Lindsay. What what did you make about that? Yeah. I was also going to bring up that line that she has earlier in the episode where she says something like the people of west dressed. They hate me. And I was like do they we haven't really seen anything besides Sansa and like the people in her council kind of questioning her. We haven't seen much proof that she's disliked. And I think that would be that would make. Some of the stuff more powerful to me if we had moments where she's speaking with the small folk, and they sneer at her or whatever. But really the only interactions we've seen of her with other people from my like recollection is them cheering her on after they won the battle a couple episodes ago. I just like it doesn't fully make sense to me. And also in that moment, you know. I haven't really heard this brought up but something that bothers me in the episode is that after the bells ring, the city has surrendered. She looks at sir. See kind of in the tower. You get the impression that she knows where sir she is. And instead of just like flying up to Serse blessing her out, she kind of zigzags around a mix a point to kill everybody leading up to that. And I just I know that she said something about, you know, leading with terror, whatever. But I just it doesn't the pieces. Don't come together for me. I don't know if I'm missing something. But. I don't know and Jacob how much of of Danny's action. Do you think is attributed to John turning away at the beginning of episode because that might be? Lindsay. You've just sorry. No, no. No, no. I want you to answer that first. And then we'll go to Jacob. What did you? What did you think about that? I was just I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make that. It was just kind of a disgust. It's it's kind of that stuff that shows. I think that's a really perfect example of how we think a woman might have handled this different. Which is you're not just gonna like set it up by like, oh, she spurned by her lover. And that's why she goes crazy like it just it looks silly. And it doesn't send a great message of how women be like commend in their lives. Don't reciprocate suffer. Fear them or whatever. I I didn't like the setup of that. I don't think you needed that scene. At all. It's me once again, my male Centric read this web. So glad we lived to be audio to white been talking in white male circles was that it was less about deniro's being mad at her boyfriend was gone and more about just devout straws breaking the dragons back and John is such a fucking wet blanket. Man. I mean, we we did our debate thrown series. I'm slash show last week where we all wrote. But who who is the best leader who the worst leaders, Android a piece, but why Johnson though is the worst? If he's a good guy. But Jesus Christ sky. Can't can't stand for anything. You can't stand up for anything. He can't be squared to narrow scam conversation with her, and I read that as all intentional of nearish is being done with this wet piece of shit. But. I did not have the read of deniro's being feeling spurned which would have been a fucking mistake because I feel his ever since this show decided to film saunas rape, which is mistake by self for theon his point of view. I realize oh, they don't get women at all. Even I realized that. So it's always been a problem for me. It's the case Reid did not see that. It was just me is a case where John being Mr. ineffectual just made a bad situation worse. But in 'cause it directly I think if they hadn't framed that moment as romantic, it would have I would have agreed with you there. But I think it's the fact that like in the middle of kissing are he just pulls away and it just to me. It reminds me of like bad movies where similar things happen. It's more the setup of it that I didn't like. Yeah. Well, let's go to something that I know that Jacob did like, which was oriented the hound Jacob you wrote very kindly about the scene in our recap. Was there anything you wanted to bring up here? It's like a broken record episode because I feel like everything that people are mad about things I enjoyed maybe personal silly reasons, but the scene was really on the nose. But I appreciate it. What it said both characters which is first of all, I shed a single tear during this episode. That was when our calls the hound Sandor and first time anyone acknowledge him as a human being. I who knows how long at least the course of this entire show, and it an between these two this sort of surrogate father daughter thing has always worked for me. And the idea that the only person in the world could told aria give up on this quest of vengeance. It's not worth it is the man who was about to go off and die on a quest of vengeance. And only person the world because convinced there was what was him and he made the choice to save a single person during. Was using in the show, and it's her and him saving her and her -nology, miss a human being. Just clicked for me in a way they've been building for years and years of aria rediscovering humanity the sand or risk covering his animal of a crumbling tower being torn apart by dragon. They part ways having left a permanent impact on each other on the nose broad. Maybe I'm sentimental, but I I love you to death. And this goodbye was everything I wanted from both of them. And I love that they were able to for the first time the sea Sando, or is a human is somebody who can save left's. Take won an aria is is, you know, young woman instead of a ruthless assassin somebody who has every reason of world to live and not to go on a suicide mission. Ben, would you think about this? Well, I want to success first, and then and then I'll respond. I actually agree that I really liked the scene on the only nitpick on it is that they waited until they were like in the middle of the burning like building to make a decision to part ways. But I did. The scene. Those to have probably one of my favorite relationships on the whole show in his moments of closure with both of the start girls. I think has been really powerful. So I did actually like the stuff that aria stuff in this episode has been my probably my favorite. Yeah. I enjoyed it as well. I think this is another one of those victims of the increase pacing, though, I feel like it would have Arias decision to actually listen to him here. And and really take in what he saying in internalize it and actually believe him instead of I feel like all of that would have landed for me in maybe a more emotional way. And also in a plot way, if we had seen, you know, any hint of that conversation more recently in the show the last time, we saw them the two of them were just riding to king's landing together talking about how they're going to murder people. Like, I feel like this conversation could have been had on horseback. You know on the way, and if we could have gotten aria determined or e. Ignoring him or something and then him finally in this moment, really trying to impart this advice, and then it landing for her. I feel like maybe something like that. And you know, I hate the idea of like, oh, this didn't do exactly what I said what I wanted to do. So therefore, it's wrong, or it's bad or whatever. That's not what I'm trying to get. I'm trying to interrogate why this moment didn't land for me emotionally in the same way that it did for Jacob because I would've loved to cry to cry to single here in this episode, but it didn't draw that from me. And I think that may be just the fact that the season is moving so quickly may be the culprit there, but I guess just to keep us moving along. Let's jump right into one of the next big confrontations of the episode riches cla gain bowl. Finally, this is the thing that man's have been hoping for for a long time and fantasizing about for years and years Lindsay, how did this land for you as somebody who has steeped in in game of thrones knowledge and has probably been seeing this written in the stars. For a long time coming did it live up to your expectations. How did you think that this moment was executed? You know, I'm kind of a weird outlier in that. I never really cared about the gain bowl to me. There was never really anything satisfying about it. I'm just like, okay. So they're gonna fight and one of them's going to die. I guess like it just killing people doesn't hold much appeal. So it never really worked for me. Or was something. I cared about. I thought it was fine. I didn't have much expectations. I know that that's kind of a Downer answer. But I was just kinda like, okay. I knew this was going to happen. I guess it happened the best could I'm a little confused about how the mountain is an alive being his brain doesn't even need to function from to stay alive. But. Yeah. I don't know. It was I thought it was kind of weird. But I'm still kind of parsing out my feelings on that one to be honest Jacob what did you think hashtag lane bowl hype? I dug this Doug the elephant whatever gave thrones decides go heavy metal album, cover and this album cover. But well like this. I think that myself law people were picturing cinema gain writing to public area in an arena of sorts picking a fight and having Geraldo transfer moment when ultimately two brothers murdering each other in a crumbling tower with no audience in for no reason to do it beyond blind hatred and write songs what the cleaning brothers. They're burned. They're gone. They died falling off tower into flames. You know, rightfully, and if it had been a cheer where the moment, I think I would be down on it. But like so much this episode. I think Miguel directs the hell of episode especially compared to long night, which I think is a mess is. He treats the whole thing like a tragedy like a massacre like a horror show and in the hound could've walked away so easily and the mountain, you know, could've protect the c instead of, you know, killing really great moment and walking right into it. But the idea of two human beings being so bound by hate that. They would rather spend their last moments attempting to destroy each other then walk away and attempt to rebuild their lives. This something that I found I find so disturbing so viscerally disturbing that it satisfied. What I needed a game bowl? If not what I thought I wanted. I will say I really liked the kind of poetic -ness of Sandra. Leaping into fire to kill his brother because fires his greatest fear. And that's something that is sort of shown throughout the show in the books. So pin taking him out that way, I thought was really cool. I could've used maybe a little more like emphasis on that. But I liked that aspect of it just as a fan. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about our last topic here in that is Jamie insurgency. So I wanna start with Lindsay because you're you just said that Jamie is your favorite character. I guess let's talk a little bit about season eight as a whole what have you made of Jamie's arc in this season? And then what did you think about his his demise? They're the end. So I'm weirdly, honestly, kind of unbothered by this part of it. I'm not I don't know if I feel like the pacing totally worked or if I feel like everything was totally convincing along the way. But I do like the idea of Jamie dying with, sir. She and her ultimately being his addiction, really, you know, kind of paints. A really interesting narrative of you look at it that way, which someone pointed out to me, and I think that's why I've been able to process that a little bit better is that really search is like an addiction for him. You know, he's trying to make better decisions. He's trying to better himself in at the end. He succumbs to his addiction, and it's tragic, and it's awful. I think it really works. I don't mind that they died in the rubble of king's landing that seems also pretty fitting for me. So weirdly, I actually kinda liked this ending for these characters. Jacob. I'm really glad Lindsey brought the concept of addiction here because that's what I've been reading about the past few weeks as well. And it's the accurate read on their relationship. He's a dicta- to serve dick to the loving her. And you know, he's here's a guy who was presented with the hero's journey given every opportunity to walk down that road, and he steadfastly ignore the C steadfastly refuses stay on the wagon because of this toxic relationship that he's drawn to in can't escape from any chooses at then one that drove me crazy last week. It's a lot of people who I love and respect. We're mad that Brienne was crying over loss boyfriend when Jamie left, which is not the case to me. I read that seen last week entirely is Jamie weeping for the man brand weeping for the man Jamie could have been we'd be because he has stumbled back into his wrong ways in this fall on into the path was before not because you know, her boyfriend was gone, go. That's a disservice debris. Nj me. It's it was tears shed over him giving up on himself. And in a weird way. Jamie died the same man. He was no he he'll do. Things he does for love. He pushes brand avatar. He rushed into a burning castle itself. Destructiveness? It's it is dangerous unhealthy and. Jamie's love for search is. In fact, it's pure defect. She's like the true woman. He loves the fact that it's so harmful to him makes his ark one of grand raggedy. And I am just really, you know, burdened by anybody who's hadn't diction of any kind. You know, hopefully, understand what's like to not be able to control that. But but but then I like Jamie is we've been talking about for a little while. Now, I think sir she gets doing so in a big way too. And you and I have talked off lying about what it incredible and relatable villain surface. Yeah. I mean, you know, she's this despicable person who is also capable of so many different types of love that are sort of bizarre in their own, right. But she is like to me one of the great creations of all of game of thrones. You know, the books and the show I think Lena he was phenomenal in this role and Lindsay I'm interested to hear because you're talking earlier about you know, that this final battle being positioned as like a deniro versus kind of thing. Search has kind of been sidelined a little bit. This season so far because we've been concentrating on more of dire matters in the north. What did you make of a surface final moment here? I know we talked about Jamie just second ago. But, but certainly, and I guess how she has been how her is been brought to a close I've been very disappointed with her this season. I'm not necessarily upset about the final moment. Because again, I like the poetic irony of Jamie and Searcy dying together. I do feel like they've really wasted. Lena Hiti this season. She hasn't really done anything, and it's hard because you wanna be inside of her head a little bit more. I think for some of this to feel more weighted. So her moment when she, you know. Shows humanity in the moments before she's gonna die and says, I don't wanna die on a diet. I could see it, you know, logically getting to that place. But I don't feel like the season did much to really establish that if anything she seemed pretty over being alive this whole season. So. Yeah. I don't know. It's not sitting. Well with me. I don't know. How exactly I would have fixed? It maybe just more time with her. But I know there's not much time to be spent at all in this season. I really think the season needed to be ten episodes. And I know that like maybe production wise that was impossible. But I just feel like there's so many little moments that happened in earlier seasons that made the payoff to deaths like this so much more meaningful. And I I really think this season is is missing some of that in with her as a specially obvious. Yeah. I totally agree with that Jacob what did you make about surveys final moments? I think that the just the way she sees her city burning and away she starts to crumble, I hate feeling empathy for stare at by love the show all of the show makes me feel it. I love feeling bad for the monsters, and she's such a monster. And I felt so bad for her. And I look forward to clean bad if deniro next week when she gets her Justice hurts we'll see. But I I agree. She's underutilized this season wishes. At least one episode was king's landing Centric that we could have maybe spinnaker in Khyber n-, you know, planning to the defense, and they begin to know, you know, what her mindset is here and understanding why she sent Bron to go off and kill our brothers. Because I still doesn't make sense still think bronze plotlines of worst damn thing this season. But we'll get to that next week lean the hideous incredible. And I think she does so much with so little Interscience here. And also she gets one lafley episode when she just quietly like scuttles away when the other series down. My entire group is bursting the huge laughter because we all needed that laugh right there. So thanks final laugh seriously. I love you. All right. I think I think that's pretty much going to bring us to the end of this discussion unless anybody has any final thoughts in closing thoughts. Maybe Jacob you just talked about maybe wanting to see Danny get her just as Erz Lindsey. What are your hopes for the finale is there a way that the show can sort of redeem itself in your is going forward in its final episode. Yeah. I'm if so rules, everything then I will love how this all turns out. Now, just saying I mean, I kind of want that to happen because my other favorite character. But I do hope that we didn't. I don't think we saw exactly what became of the iron throne. My hope is that it's done away with and that they democratize the power of west rose. And that's how this all ends. I think that's the only thing that would really work for me. I can't envision John on the throne that just doesn't sit. Well with me at all and doesn't feel like anything he would want. So. Yeah, I think I'm just hoping that the power is split up a little bit. How would you feel about a Santa gained remarriage? The United Kingdom's. That's always been my like pets theory for for a couple of weeks. Now, I I don't hate that. I really just want to like be independent and alone. I'm not I'm not like really, I I'm not anti like shipping or anything like that. But I do think that she hasn't seemed very occupied with like having a romantic partner. And I think just having like a powerful single woman could be really cool. So I think I'm more Asana slash independence than I am. I like the idea of Sansa ruling Henry being the guy she tolerates because he has Rathi and his name. Right. I remember just hope they do away with some of that old fashioned. Like, we have to marry our people off for it to matter. I don't know if that's too like modern of reading on it. So I don't know how I like expect to see that play out. But yeah, do you want to bring up a one more thing before we close out because it's one thing. I wanted to mention interview Ben, and I couldn't get to it. And involves everybody is most hated character. And that's your on. Great joy. And everybody hates how emerged from the water. Just the right time. Jamie and everybody hates him. I don't if the actor has quietly said he used disappointed that the the book version of the character wasn't realized in the screen, but I love that. He is fair game of thrones character who dies. Happy dies knowing. He's killed Jimmy Lancaster. And that to me is an incredible way to kill him. So I'll say that much. Did he kill Jamie, though? Or did the falling rocks in in the mortally wounded him. Year on socks sucks. I love hating him. I don't people just hate him by fucking love to hate that guy. I kind of think that whole scene exists. Just so people can't expect Jamie crawl out of the rubble next episode. It's like no he was like mortally stabbed a few times. So like, he's really dead. What do you want to see next? Clearly, we're team. We're hashtags sister fans. So yeah, I just wanted to be satisfying guys. And I don't know what that means. I I've tried really hard not to put any specific put too much value on seeing any specific moment play out in the finale because I feel like that's the way, you know. That's the path that's paved toward disappointment. So I just want it to be emotionally resonant. And I I want it to be satisfying on a narrative level, and I honestly don't know if that's possible based on the decisions that they've been making lately, but I liked this episode enough where I feel like there's enough potential there that they still could pull it off. And then we'll be talking about the legacy of the show with the sort of asterisks next to the final two seasons. If they're able to to sort of stick the landing, and that's that's all I really hope in plead four to happen is for them to do something that resonates with me and. Makes me cry a single tier and gives me makes me think about the show, and maybe re contextualised on things. And yeah, just sends it off on a note where it feels right? And I know that's an amorphous concept, and it's going to be different for everybody. But that's a thing that I really related to with the lost finale. And you know, it just felt right to me felt emotional. It felt like it was doing right by its characters. And I know people hate that finale. And I know this is going to be divisive regardless of what happens, but if it can hit those beats then I think I'll be as I was with lost very very willing to forgive some of its valleys in favor of its peaks in the long run. Good lindsay. I'm sorry. That's okay, asthma, say one more thing to just kinda go off that lost thing. I'm also big fan of loss. Finale one other thing, and I don't wanna put too much expectations. Like, you're saying I don't have like a single moment that I need to see to be satisfied. I do kind of hope the show does something like kind of bananas though in the final moments. Like I feel like the season. Finale is that really stick with you are the ones we're just something. You are completely like what? Whether that's like a plop. It doesn't have to be a plot point. You even just like just something I want to like really be chewing on something as ends. I think that would last me like, you know, the loss kind of other world revelation in stuff, I think like something like that would be really cool. Yeah. Definitely. All right. So before we go, let's tell people where we can find or where they can find more of our work online Lindsay remained. Let start with you today. You can find me on noticed or you can follow me on Twitter at Lindsay remain. Jacob. I am managing Madge editing. Magic editing slash home dot com every single day. And if you want my reading about game of thrones HBO IS wrote an article about how the last episode the final episode ever, veep, which aired last night gave me the feeling that. I hope game of thrones. Because the next week in all linked on the show notes. Awesome. And you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at Ben hairs and can find more about all the stuff that we mentioned on today's show at slash on dot com and linked in the show notes of this episode slash film. Daily is published every weekday bringing the most exciting news from the world of movies and TV as well. As deeper dives into the great features. You can find on the site. You can subscribe to the show on itunes, Google on casts, overcast Spotify all the popular podcast apps, and please feel free to send your feedback questions. Comments and concerns to us at Peter at slash film dot com and make sure if you do that to leave your name and general geographic location in your Email in case we mentioned on the air. Also, don't forget to rate and review the podcast on itunes. Tell your friends spread the word, and we'll talk to you tomorrow.

Jacob Jamie Lindsay Danny Erz Lindsey Ben Tyrian deniro Twitter Lindsey romaine Ben Pearson writer Jacob hall Peter Gingrich king John Sansa Andy Tyrian Lena Hiti
Game of Thrones, S8E4 | The Precappables

The Recappables

47:38 min | 2 years ago

Game of Thrones, S8E4 | The Precappables

"Welcome to the ringer podcast network in the past month. We saw the return of some of TV's best shows. So he wanted to remind you about a recap Ables feed where our staff breaks down current episodes from your favorites like game of thrones killing eve and billions also make sure to check in each week to hear special one off recaps on shows like the bowl type, very Cavalieri, Cobra KAI and more. So as he keep up with your top shows tune into the recapitalise feed each week on apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to game of thrones pre capitals heart of the ringer podcast network. This is the podcast where we previewed the thrones episodes of come, and, you know, suggest that grey worm is totally doomed the night king is totally safe at the battle of winter fell hoops, but just as dinars turns her eyes from the great war to the last war. We're going to keep going to and today that means breaking down what to expect in season. Eight episode four I'm at cram. And joining me after a long night that definitely did not last generation, it's Riley Makati. It was a fun long evening. All right. Let's preview the next one. Let's start by diving into next on game of thrones. Now rally let's start with the logistics here. Because I think the culmination of the whitewater are came a lot earlier than we expected and seems to neatly divide the season into two parts to chunks of three episodes each numbers one two and three basically all about the prep for the battle of winter fell. You know, we got that one scene with, sir. See basically, but that was it. And now, it seems like episodes four five and six are going to pivot and it's going to pivot south. We see search in the trailer again for next week. What are the logistics? Look like for this episode. Having just finished episode three with director Miguel posh net. Yeah. I mean, it kind of seemed like we would pivot south and absurd for anyways. Though, we figured that we pivot south in defeat. Instead, they're pitting south in victory and looking forward to the last war between denarius her lines with John, and sir c and you're on and everyone down there. Air. This episode four now is directed by David nutter. He did one and two on the season. He did the red wedding. He's done several other episodes for thrones less of the big kind of battle episode type of guy that Miguel posh Nick is more of a traditional storyteller. I guess they kind of bring him in to do the nuts and bolts, which is interesting because episode five is another Sopotnica episode. So we kind of figure that this episode for will be a little bit more kind of a regrouping and a table setting for episode five which could then be another big battle. But this time between sir c and deniro's and everybody else instead of with the white walkers. But there's also reasons to think that this episode could be pretty big and explosives own rights, seventy eight minutes long, which is almost as long as the last episode and Miguel's passionate kind of had some cryptic comments about how three four and five all fit and like one big. Narrative arc. Yes. A posh. Nick said in an interview with Entertainment Weekly that he initially wanted to direct episodes three four and five because quote there a complete peace with the beginning middle and end and on the surface. That sounds kind of weird because starting an arc with the giant battle. The biggest in TV or film history thrown says intent to keep reminding us is a strange narrative choice, but I think it could potentially work. If you go the sort of zigzag approach where three is battle for his regroup in preparation five is battle again. But it's also important to consider that like you said seventy eight minutes that's a lot of time to fill and compared to last week where we knew there was going to be a battle. We had an idea of what the plans would look like what the two armies looked like we have very little idea of what the general framework of this episode looks like even more broadly. We have very little idea of what the general framework of the rest of the season looks like a lot of the trailer material from before the season that we've been using to analyze. Is has already been used up. It was about the battle versus the dead. And it was obviously intentional the show. Runners didn't want to give away that it would end so quickly. But there's a lot, you know, more than half of the season left. If you go by minutes, and we have very little idea of what's going to come. Yeah. If you go back and watch the season eight trailer there are basically only one or two shots that we haven't yet seen almost everything in there is from the first three episodes. So if feels like HBO and the show owners have kept everything from four five and six completely in the dark, and so for to say that three four and five are part of one arc is really interesting in could mean that it's a lot more complicated than we think. So let's dive into what we know is going to be in this episode from the thirty second teaser at the end of last week. See if we can make some light of these clues it starts with the assembled and Dinara says, we have one the great war. Now, we will win the last war. First of all someone you know has gotta. Help come up with more creative names for these battles. But beyond that, do you think this is just as self explanatory as she's moving onto the next thing. I mean, it definitely seems like that's the conflict right is with sir c although they have set up. You know, we still have the question out there of who really is the air to the iron throne. Does it matter? Does it matter that John's ATar Garin? So there's stuff where I don't think that it will necessarily just be generis versus, sir. See that's the last three episodes. There's going to be different fissures and cracks with the humans who are extensively on the same side at play in the final three episodes. I'm sure I'm reading too much into this. But the very titling of these battles hints at almost a sort of naievety from generis, assuming that if she wins the throne against sir c that's going to be the last war like if she knows anything about turn carrying history about western history. She should know. That's not true because sure Aegon won the thrown. But then he had to conquer Dohrn which took hundreds of years, then there was the dance of the dragons than there were various rebellions from big ones like Robert. Trevelyan two smaller ones like involving the nine penny kings, which are smaller. But still happened. Those were battles. It's not like Danny is going to bring peace to the kingdom. If she wins the throne. So I wonder if that will be part of what this episode is about Tyrian last season said we need to start thinking about succession plans, and she was reluctant to do. So I wonder if now that they've won against the existential threat if that idea comes back up again, and she's forced to think about it. Yeah. Even her own history. I mean, she conquered slavers bay, and then immediately had an insurrection that she had to deal with or you think about Robert's rebellion. He conquered the throne. It was only a few years later that you had the great joy rebellion over in the iron islands. It would be curious to me if she really thinks that this is a sort of in game. I wonder if it's more of a rallying cry to call this the last war, you have to remember that west rose, the whole realm has been at war for years and years and years now probably would be pretty comforting to say Kay. Let's do this one last conquest and then. That's it could be a branding thing. And I think that bleeds into the next key part of the trailer, which is the folks in winter fellows, great Haller toasting generis, as you noted this make some sense because they would be dead. If not for her dragons, you know, they weren't so hyped about her coming north. But it's pretty safe to say that the battle would have done differently. If Danny and her troops her dragons hadn't been there. The question I have about this is all right. If she's trying to rally them I saying great job. We just beat the dead. Now, we have one more word ago. Like how committed will the northern lords of Beata her? 'cause I think this is where the dynamic between deniro and John incense, really matters. Because it was one thing to fight the walkers who weren't going to devastate life as everyone knew it. But, you know, for the northern lords things haven't gone, so well when they've and their ancestors have marched south Trobe elegance the person who sits on the iron throne. It basically has never worked a bunch of northern families are already wiped out. What are the survivors going to do are? They really going to say. Okay. Let's take arms one more time and fight south there will they want to stay at home and rebuild their own societies. Yeah. I wonder if this scene of them all toasting deniro's one standing up raising her Cup. If that's a hey, we just one it's a very innocent. Just you know, let's celebrate type thing or if it's them kind of bending the knee and cheering their Queen sort of in a way similar to when they crown John king in the north. And I'm not really sure it could go either way we know that in the last episode sauna has that conversation with cheering in the crypts where she talks about the dragon Queen divided loyalties, and it's clear that she's still thinking of an independent north. But I wonder if everyone else after having seen the dead and seen the devastation of Dennis dragons kind of feels like if deniro's wants to be Queen of the seven kingdoms we can't win a war against her. And also, she just saved our butts. Maybe we can bend the knee. And that'll just be a better deal for everybody. I don't know yet. There were a lot of key players who had conversations in episode two that were interrupted by battle preparations. Danny was talking to Sansa things were going well until they weren't and then theon arrived in that conversation was cut short John waited until the very moment before the battle to reveal to Danny his actual identity. The fact that he's the tour to the throne that conversation was cut short as the dead arrive in the horn start blowing. So I think those conversations probably have to resume this episode. I'll be interested to see first of all how that happens Willoughby, Danny or Santa or John saying we need to resume this conversation. And I also wonder who else will be a part of it will tear incident will various it in will other people like Brienne may be sit in and try and offer their advice will Davos sit in to influence these conversations because it seems like at least with John, and Danny sense. It kind of knows what she's doing. But John, and Danny don't really seem to know what they want. And maybe their advisers can help them out. I wonder who will be the first person other than brands Sam John ordinary to find out about John. Parentage because it feels like the type of thing where John would actually if he does not want the throne just kind of want to bury it, it's like a complication that doesn't seem like it would matter that much to him. You can just imagine where if Santa finds out the John is actually the heir to the iron throne. How much that complicates things? If Tyrian finds out, you know, he has had a kind of a rocky relationship with deniro, even though he's her hand it could complicate things there too. You know, you wonder if those beans will spell, and who will be the first person to find out and how they will react in how that will kind of cause a domino effect for the rest of the season. If John doesn't want people to know, that's where SAM's knowledge of Danny's potential mad Queen tendencies could come into play because he would not John and say, hey, remember what we talked about in the crypts. You wouldn't burn people. Right. She did that might come up again to the let's move onto the next part of the trailer. We go south for a bit. We see you're on insertion looking over the golden company in an area. That is bright for the first time in a while on game of. Jones. And then we also see another shot of your on getting down on one knee. So that yields two questions one is he proposing because he's kind of already done that into. What do we think, sir? She's been up to she just waiting to find out what happens or has. She been doing more to prepare. I do love that. We finally have certainty back wearing a color. She is wearing this negative red instead of just black all the time. Which is great. Yeah. I do wonder about your on because I still have that feeling that it's a plot point that the great joys in the iron islanders. They pay the iron price. Their whole culture is built around taking things not buying them. Not being rewarded for them? And yet you're on has just you know, kinda sold himself to to get what he wants. And I wonder if any point he could harbor idea of betraying her. But it seems like by the way that he goes on to a knee here. Like, he's pledging his loyalty to her. You know, he he seems like he's all in. Then we see some ships and those ships you. Think might be connected to your own. But actually, they have her Garin sales. And there are a bunch of ships. Who knows where she got those ships. But she has them. The question is where do we think they're selling to obviously, they're going to engage with servcies forces? But I would imagine they're not sailing directly to king's landing. I think there are a few potential landing spots. What do you think the favourite is one idea could be that they are sailing to the iron islands? That's where Yaro we know camped out. Although she has said that she really doesn't have very many troops or ships left. But I wonder if they'll still wanna get her anyways, you know, they need all the reinforcements they can get and speaking reinforcements, they also could be going to get or it could be this person should going back, but Dario from marine we do see Ray golf fly over the ship. So that would probably indicate that it's not Dario coming from arena. But I do wonder if he has a role to play, you know, just seems like the doth Raqi seemed wiped out the unsullied or decimated. It feels like deniro his side could use more troops. I wonder if they'll go everywhere. They can. But if I had to put a spot where I think that they're sailing to I believe, it's dragon stone. It just makes sense, tactically. That's why they were there in season seven it's close to king's landing, but not right next to it. It's weird to narrow was born. And we know that there are some sleuths before this season. Who saw I'm one of the trailers deniro and John stand in front of a fireplace. If you look very very closely the pattern on the stones. You can tell that. It's the same fireplace in dragon stone that we've seen many times before. So that seems to confirm that John Danny will end up there this season. Although you never know it could be HBO and thrones playing tricks on us having added a scene that's not actually going to appear. I like that idea lot for a couple reasons both fanatic narrative, I you know, that's a good watching spot to attack king's landing. That's where Janney was going to launch from before she had to turn to deal with the first threat. That's where a gone the conquer launched his west coast union invas-. Way back when and I think that's a key point. You brought this up in the piece you wrote after Sunday night, which was very good. Everyone should go read it. It's basically about what questions come next now that the white walkers have been defeated one of the things you bring up is that shortage of troops that Danny now has after they were depleted in the battle winter fell. But as you note a gun the conquer initially landed at the site that would eventually be known as king's landing with fewer than sixteen hundred men, and it didn't matter no force in western could stand up to him because he had dragons Danny has dragons. So maybe it doesn't matter that her forces were depleted all that much. She can still roast the red keep without probably anything getting in her way. But will she she said in season seven she doesn't wanna be Queen of the ashes when a Loria and others were urging her to attacking's landing immediately. She on Tyrians council said no will she have changed her mind or she still pursue. That course of more caution in dealing with certainty. It'll be more tempting than ever to just take her dragons go in burn the keep and even if they're able to do. So in a way that doesn't kill that many civilians it still he symbol of terror to bring your dragons into king's landing. You'll be ruling with fear the way that Tyrian advised her not to last season. So I think that that'll be some of the core tension moving forward will be denier isses possible temptation to use her dragons in that way, and Tyrian and others probably advising her for more caution. But at some point it becomes what other options you have. If you don't have an army, and it's unclear how many troops she has left. But it seems like not many we should note. Of course that we see both dragons in this trailer. We also see ghost so all the mythical creatures. We were worried about their survival. Odds last episode, it's been confirmed that they're alive everyone. You know, save the Syrian who died again when are killed the night king, the problem with ruling by fear, as you note, isn't just. Just that it's not as advisable, as you know, ruling through other emotions, but that makes it really hard to break the wheel, and Danny has talked about that in this episode. She says of what who we presume, sir? See we will rip her out root and stem. But what are you putting in place? I think that's where a lot of these conversations will come up in this episode and the episode to come we've heard the phrase root and stem few times on the show most recently from aria when she was posing while they're fray at the beginning of season seven and she kills the whole Frei family. She says you didn't slaughter everyone of the Starks. Ono that was your mistake. You should have ripped them all out root and stem. I mean, I guess it seems like Danny is learning from Walter phrase mistakes in advertently, but this is obviously phrasing that the show is returning to there's going to be like a very awkward balance between breaking the wheel and just reconstructing the wheel, you know, if she invades in almost the exact manner that Egon the conquer did than aren't you? Just like rebuilding the system that we had. For hundreds of years, the root and stem comment is really interesting to me what root or stem is there with, sir. See she's one person's echina- had thoughts on this. Yeah. It just weird that they would go. Every other time rooting stems come up. It's been about a group Jamie, and rob talk about the root and stem of family RAM talks about the route and semi family when she's posing as while they're fray, there's another quote from search yourself who doesn't talk about stem. But she mentioned the route that's related to a bunch of people what are searchers written stem besides like her and the mountain, and I guess Khyber like your. Yeah, that's not like routes. That's a, you know, a couple of weeds that are closely together, but they're not conjoined in any way. I wonder what that actually means. Because I can't imagine about like we gotta get rid of Jamie interior because they're Lantis search too. So it's a little bit of awkward phrasing. And I don't know if it was just like one of those lines. That's almost written frit trailer just to yes, the exciting at the end when might not make. As much sense in the course of the episode. I think it just sounds bad ass. I mean, we also could if we really want to have an in universe explanation tie it back into this idea of dearest marketing genius who needs to rally north and come on guys. We're gonna we're gonna root out the Lancasters root and stem. But I'm not sure if it actually makes a lot of sense, speaking of branding. And you know, this is a great segue because Oreo has teamed up with game of thrones to create limited edition, packaging and cookies and boss with the singles of three remaining contending houses. We're going to pick a single and recap. What happened to the house in this last episode? And after this last one, there's no real other choice than stark because guess what? Riley aria killed the night king. She's the principal promised. Maybe I'm not sure I don't know. But winter's over man, and it wasn't just aria making moves in this episode. There were some mistakes, you know, John came up with a bad battle plan. And then he resorted to yelling at a dragon, which people have been making fun of. But honestly kind of. Relatable? Like, he would just so frustrated in the moment. What else can you do? But let out a gutteral yell brand. Also, maybe made some mistakes he flew via raven and didn't really do much to help in the war effort. But maybe he saw the future because he stayed alive. He forgave theon. And then he didn't end up dying while the night king did and finally Sansa bonded with Tyrian and annoyed misunder in the process. But there were some really great moments between Santa interior in in the crypt where you know. They had been married before and separated for many seasons. But it seems like they have a grudging respect for each other. This episode is just a huge win for the Starks. You know, they defended their home they reclaimed it for good. They all live the didn't necessarily all make best choices of the choices that we would have expected coming into here. You know, John yelling at the dragon really stands out is an odd one. But they did it. They made it winter fellows safe now, they can turn their attention south. And it really is great to see all of our favorite characters. Finally, make it after this. Much of the story has been so tough for the Starks and they survived their ancestral home kept. It safe winter fell has been around for thousands of years, though, it's been ransacked and burned down at various points. It still around, and they have the means to continue to defend it. Good job to the Starks. This week you won the battle in the north thinks to Oreo and head to Oreo dot com to pledge your field t to the house of your choice in tune into game of thrones on Sundays on HBO. And now, let's take a quick break to hear from one of our sponsors. Filling out your small council can be challenged. But there's one place you can go or hiring is simple fast at smart a place where a growing businesses. Connect the qualified candidates. That place is recruiter dot com slash recap ZipRecruiter send your job to over one hundred of the web's leading job boards, but they don't stop there with their powerful matching technology. Ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes. Find people with the right experience invites them to apply to your job ZipRecruiter is so that Boorda five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now listeners the pre-capitalist contries it for cooter four free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash recap. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash our ec-. Ziprecruiter dot com slash recap. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Next rally. We're gonna move into the theory of the week and as the show moves south. So will we because this week the theory is the Vallon car? The Vallon car has not been mentioned on the show. But it plays a huge role in the books. What does it show watchers will call from season five, the only non brand flashback, the show has ever had is when sir she goes into the woods meets this woods, which named Maggie Maggie delivers to Serbia prophecy where she tells her that she'll marry the king? She tells her that she'll have three children goal to be their crowns gold will be there shrouds, and she tells her that a younger Queen more beautiful will rise up to overthrow her in the books. There's one other element to this prophecy. Which is she says, quote, when you're cheers have drowned you the Vallon CarShield wrap his hands about your pale white throat, and choke the life from you Fallon cars. A high Valerian word in means little brother and Searcy has lived her entire life believing that Tyrian her. Oh brother is this Fallon car who is going to kill her. But we know that prophecies can be really tricky in thrones. So of course, there's a lot of different theories about who the real Vallon car could be. So let's break down the candidates one by one the first and most obvious candidate is Tyrian who has had the most acrimonious relationship possible with his sister. They've each threatened to kill each other on multiple occasions. They've maybe tried on multiple occasions inserts, he's case. And like you said this is her interpretation of the prophecy ended informs how she treats Tyrian throughout her life. But it almost seems to obvious to be Tyrian. So a lot of fans believe that Jamie, Lancaster is actually the Vallon car who will kill Serfaty. There's a few key points of evidence here. The first one is that though the two are twins. Jamie was born second. So he is technically her younger brother and Jamie has also obviously decided that, sir. She is not necessarily right for him anymore. He has left. Her side in both the books and the show at this point. And that means there's the potential that he could go completely in the other direction and up ending her life, and it would make a lot of sense to if Jamie were to kill, sir. See even without this prophecy being present in the show, just from a storytelling narratives sense, it would wrap up both of their arcs really perfectly. Jamie stood by searching for so long by this woman that he loved even as it became more and more clear that she was descending into madness, and basically evil and terrible. He he stuck around until really the very end of last season. And so if he comes back now, and he kills her. It's kind of this perfect poetic end, sir. Certainty ends up getting killed by her once lover due to her own actions to drive him away. And Jamie gets this redemption. Finally, you know, reading himself in the world of this horrible evil. He would also add to his nicknames. In addition to king slayer, he would be the Queen slayer as well. Saving the realm again. And that would be a nice way to to take his name's full circle. One counterpoint to this idea is that the theory specifically mentions hands plural that would choke, sir. C could he use the golden hand? Or does the fact that he only has one real hand? Now mean that he cannot be the candidate. I personally think that that would almost be an even cooler twist because remember when Jamie returns from his adventures with the Riverland missing a hand, sir. See almost thinks less of him for it. So that would almost be an even cooler way to say, actually, it still doesn't matter. He can use this new handcrafted for him to bring the relationship to a close. I like the idea book readers have the theory that he will take the chain of the hand in the in the books of the hand of the king doesn't get the little pin that they get in the show. They get kind of a necklace that's made it of hands that all grasp each other. And he could take that any basically strangle Serfaty with it with hands. Like ended with shea the same way that Tyrian did was say, yes, exactly. I think that for the show, you know, he just takes his one hand or his one hand in the gold hand and strangles her that works enough prophecy filled, but he's not the only candidate because a another key part of the prophecy. Is that the specific line for Magassa Vive Allen car, not your valid car. In other words, it's just a little brother. It doesn't have to be specifically searches little brother. So there are a couple other candidates who arise one of them is the hound. I personally think this would make a lot more sense in the books because the idea is that in the book, sir, she's trial with a high. Sparrow, hasn't yet occurred? The idea is that she'll call a trial by combat and use the mountain as her champion while the high Sparrow will call on the hound clear. Exactly readers believe that the hound is rehabbing from his injuries at a kind of monastery in the river lands. So if the hound beats the mountains, sir, she would be declared guilty and sentenced to execution. Voila, obviously too late for that in the show. Do you think it could still work? It wouldn't be as satisfying for the how to do it. Even though he was obviously Joffrey sworn shield for a good chunk of the early part of the show, he really didn't act interact very much with certainty. He doesn't have any personal animosity with her the way that someone like Jamie does or even like Tyrian does if we want to go for the obvious candidate. But at the same time as we saw last episode the show loves to subvert expectations. So perhaps all we're all thinking that Jamie Tyrian could be the one to kill C. You know, the hound just comes in and takes that ax and chops or head off which I mean, maybe it actually would be kinda satisfying by their even further possibilities because remember what denarius learn from her conversation with Melissa on dragon stone last season in high Valerian, the prince in the prince that was promised was genderless now as misunder informs them that could also mean Princess that was promised could valid Karbi similar that would open up a whole host. Of new younger siblings because then you'd have younger sisters in addition to younger brothers. There's an obvious younger sister who just killed the key villain wants to kill Serfaty could be the villain car. I just I mean, if she gets the night king, and sir see that would be really wild. Granted, sir. See is a name on Arias list. She's only got two left at, sir. See in the mountain. So I mean, perhaps she gets one of those two, but it feels like the mountain should be killed by the hand searches should be killed by Tyrian or Jamie. And that if aria gets too many of these big moments, it's like, hey share the love a little bit. Although remember last season REO was about to head south for king's landing to kill, sir. See that's what she revealed her plans to be and then hot informed her what was going on at winter fell. And she decided to head north even brand was surprised even brand when they ran into each other said, I thought you were headed south that king's landing. I agree with you that it would be a little strange of aria ends up killing both of the main villains. In season eight, but the fact that brand thought she was going to king's landing. Maybe he saw the future, and you know, maybe saw her heading to king's landing just at the wrong time. He misjudged when that would be I think that's a possibility at this point because it's unclear how much brand really is able to harness and understand what he sees about the future. He could have gotten those timelines mixed up. I could see that. I do. I do feel like that. Kinda makes me think that aria in choosing to go north and says south kind of gave up her chance to kill, sir. See it's like can she go north and help John and help her family? And then also go south and kill Searcy as well kinda felt like she made a choice to not kill, sir. She and now the opportunity to do that should go to someone else. There are lots of other younger siblings who could conceivably fit this prophecy. Who don't have as compelling claims like you have Danny who's a younger sister Yar as the younger sister, John and San site, like even Iran is technically a younger sibling. Although he seems so devoted to search. The at this point who. Knows one question. I have about this whole prophecy is as you said another element of it was this quote for Maggie, quote, you'll be Queen for a time then comes another younger more beautiful to cast you down and take all you hold. Dear could that younger and more beautiful Queen and the Vallon Karbi the same person that would mean, Danny or Sanga could potentially fit both like it would be really fitting. If Santa comes full circle after being brutalized by searching for a while. You know, remember at the blackwater how sir she was just intimidating her that entire night. What if she now that she's come into her own is able to fulfil both parts of this prophecy? I think that's possible. Aria did just teach Taunsa how to use a dagger. Here we go. So I guess it's all lined up for to do it, sir. C believed that the younger more beautiful Queen was Marjorie which made less sense when Marjorie was in king's landing, and we kind of always thought, well, it must be deniro's who serves he was not as a wear of at the time. And it kind of influences why, sir? She is so hostile to Marjorie why she's just so over the top negative toward her that to me is always one of the things. That's the most interesting about prophecy in the show is the way that whether people are correct or incorrect in their interpretations of it, it can influence the character's actions and actually make things come true or just lead their lives in different directions. You know, you see this with status, and you see it certainly with certainty here, but I'm into the idea of it being Sanga or deniro being the same person who's the younger more beautiful Queen, and there's one other element of the prophecy that informs a possibility here because the last option we want to talk about is that surfaced pregnancy will actually end up killing her the technical younger sibling to Joffrey Tomen and Marcella could kill her either in childbirth or some sort of complication because that other part of the prophecy said, sir, she would have three kids. Now the show has. Already played with this in season one they invented a child for her that she talks about when she's consoling cat stark about brands fall from the tower, and she also mentions it in a one on one scene with Robert later on. She says that they had a kid and the kid died, very young. Now, the people involved with the show have since clarified like oh that didn't count for the prophecy because the baby died so young and nobody really knew about it that seems like they kinda just messed up because like it was a Royal baby. People would have known about it. So maybe there's something wrong with this three child prophecy anyway. But if it's true, if I can really only have three kids that means this fourth kid isn't going to be born or it's going to be born after she's dead, and then that won't count. I just can't see how you'll get the chance to to birth the child because it feels like I don't know if they're good nine or eight or seven or six months left before denarius end her forces arrive in king's. Lending. We've gotta figure that sir. Seeing company probably lose in the end. And she probably loses her life as a result. And so I'm not sure if there's just enough time, basically for sir see to have a pregnancy and carry a child to term, she's not really showing based on the teaser trailers. So we figure it's probably still pretty early in her pregnancy. You know, it could be that she dies in childbirth. But I think it's more likely that she just doesn't get the chance to have that kid in the first place entered occurs to me, we should discuss the last real possibility, which is the show hasn't mentioned the Vallon car prophecy because they don't intend to see it through. I think we've both believed that the reason they didn't mention the Vallon car is like if it's Jaime for instance, they wouldn't want to foreshadow that so heavily because then everyone would kind of assume like, oh, Jamie might actually be the one to kill her. They would want to leave it more in the shadows. But maybe they just don't intend to see through. Maybe, sir. She doesn't die. Maybe she dies another way. Maybe she wins. Who knows we will find out going forward? But I think we probably would both pick, Jamie. If we had to just for all the reasons we mentioned ident-, maybe not the show subverting our expectations left and right. There's a line between subverting expectations and also giving fan service, and it usually likes to do both at once. And I can't find a way where it could subvert expectations about services death, in a way that would also be fan service in the way that kind of orient killing the night king is so I have to think it'll be Jamie. And if not Jamie Tyrian, I just can't think that it's something other than one of those two perhaps it's Jonathan Danny or someone I guess that could also be a lot of fun. But it does feel like Jamie makes the most sense. So let's go into the next topic for this episode keys to the game where regular listeners will know we each pick one key character from the next episode and offer three lines for them to achieve their ambitions to better set themselves up for the episode to come. Although I my key player. This week is John the first. I ki-. I I want to offer him as you have to decide what you wanna do next. John has been thinking only about the walkers for so long. Now, what does he do now that they're defeated? He hasn't really afforded himself the opportunity to think beyond that as he tells Davos in season seven like, oh, I can't even think about loving Danny because I'm only concerned about the night king. Now, obviously, Danny found a way into his heart anyway, but they're complications there to he s inside what he wants next. Will he challenge for the throne? Does he want the north to be pledged to her or will he listen to Sansa and try to make an independent? I think that's the first thing he needs to decide before he can even address anything else. Yeah. I feel like with John he has been since being resurrected so consumed by the night king. It'll be really interesting to see him in this episode. Finally, not feel like he has to live for that purpose in for the first time in several seasons. Decide what it is that he wants to do next number two. Is pick your spots better for choosing. When to talk about important things. Which in this case means have the talk with Danny before you engage in battle because you have to start setting these plans in motion or else, if you beat searching battle, you're going to be looking up at the iron throne and thinking like all right, which one of us sits on the thing that would be really awkward and probably set the new regime up to fail from the first step and number three is even if he decides he wants to contend for the throne or presumably sale south with Danny to engage in that battle. He asked to set up rebuilding in the north now with whoever remains behind for a few reasons. One the north ended up being the only region in west coast that was mangled by the night king. So we asked to figure out how to rebuild that region. Because even if he's just the word of the north and not the king as he was named. That's still his territory and responsibility. There are plenty of vacated castles in the region the dread fort where the Boltons were last. Hearth where the numbers were bear island where the more months where car holder, the car stocks where all of this might be abandoned. Now, he needs to figure out what to do with them. Also, he needs to figure out is he going to call his people to another war just after this one. Maybe they'd follow him if he asked, but that's a lot of burden to put on his followers after they've thought so much already in the battle the bastards in the battle of winter fell. And you know, a lot of these families lost a bunch of members at the red wedding to let them be in peace for once. They do hate the Lancasters though, it might be enough to go get rid of certainty. Mike key is Tyrian. Speaking Lancaster's, the first Kia have for him is that his record strategizing against sir c has been really poor. He sent the great joy fleet to go. Get the doors armies that obviously ended in disaster when you're on destroyed the fleet he went to go, take Castro rock and Serbian. Jamie left it empty just completely worthless pond. And while. They were taking gasoline rock. They lost the reach and they lost high garden in the tyrel. So it has been a huge disaster for Tyrian fighting this war against his sister. Some curious to see if he can finally outwit her and get the upper hand, don't forget him thinking that she was going to help them in the north and being completely bamboozling every single other persons like don't trust her, right. He t- tells everyone no one distrusts my sister as much as me, except he's the one who negotiated the deal with her. And then immediately gets burned by very bad look for Tyrian. So hopefully, he can rebound. My second key for him is that he has been one of the primary people that is cautioning Danny about using her dragons in west rose, burning king's landing, etc. And as we kind of set the top of the show Janney may be more tempted to use her dragons in king's landing on the right? Keep than she ever has been. And so his position there as her advisor trying to negotiate a more peaceful. Transfer of power in west rose will be very crucial. Then my third key is Braun is coming north. We've all forgotten about this, dude. In the first episode. They sent him with a wagon a gold north go kill, Jamie interior. And I really wonder what will happen. You know, Tyrian famously said whatever their offer is I'll double it telling Braun anytime someone tries to buy you off to kill me. Remember, I'm the richest person in west coast or one of them, and I will double it. But I don't know if he can double it when it serves e paying Bryan, and sir c has the iron throne in the red keep and everything else and Cherian is just the hand of the Queen. But I wonder if he will find a way to talk to brand maybe bring Bron around to their side or just what will happen with that your action in general when Braun does finally meet up with these people. I'm very curious about that last part we've seen zero inkling of Bron in any of the preview material we've had zero mention of bronze since that I separated which makes sense because we've been entirely in the north, but we were both wondering like is Brown. Going to show up at any point. He obviously did not. There's obviously a reason they threw that into the first episode because you know, they're everything's so compressed now everything has to matter. So I wonder what will come of that will like malady Rubens theory that maybe bronze shoots across but bolt and that kills Brienne. And that's what Spurs Jamie to become the Vallon car and kill Serfaty. Maybe that will happen. But it's hard to come up with feasible scenarios that make storytelling sense of this point. I still think the best scenario that makes the most sense to me is that Bron takes that money. You know, they said he was paid up front, and he just goes and he retires endorse. I would love it. I I said that on a previous pod. And I stick by. Let's go Ron just retire. I hope we don't see Bron again this week. So next week spider. You can just offer this theory again and continue to do. So until we finally figured out. You're right. I will speak into existence. We'll just never see brought again speaking of predictions. This brings us nicely into our last segment of the show where we don't have a big. Title coming this week. So instead of going character by character to predict whether they will live or die, you know, as early as that went for us last real bus for us. Yes, we're returning to the way. We've typically done it where we each offer to predictions one that we think will happen and one that we think maybe won't happen. But want to see in this next episode rally? What do you think will happen? So I think that we will learn about some new plan that sir seeing company will have to kill the dragons. They're still as we've talked about this fundamental power, imbalanced deniro's can just come with her dragons and burn everything to the ground. We saw at the battle of the Lou train the Lancers got absolutely decimated. I don't know how the golden company really changed the formula. Which is that dragons beat armies. There's just no way around it. So whether that means that they've been building a bunch of those big crossbows. You know, Braun almost took out drug on just one of those things perhaps they have hundreds of them. Now, if they've just been manufacturing them nonstop or something else, maybe. You're on has a secret in the books. He claims to have a horn called dragon binder that can subject a dragon to his will if he plays it. It's unclear if he's just kind of boasting about something that might not be true. Or if actually does a magical horn-like that I don't know if something that magical will appear in the show this point feels a little late. But perhaps there's a different wildcard like that perhaps the golden company do know something about killing dragons, you know, they're from Esso's. They have a connection to the target audience via the black fires which are arguing bastards from many decades ago. And maybe they know something that we don't about dragging killing. But I'm not sure what it will be. But I think we'll find out something that can kind of even the playing field a little bit for certainty and her armies when to nearest comes knocking. Remember that you're on built a fleet of what ten thousand ships, and that was from the iron islands, which of treaty. They no trees so. Imagine just how many hundreds of thousands of crossbows. He could have built in that span while they were just waiting to find out who won the battle in the north. What I think will happen in this episode is actually a won't. I think something won't happen. And that's something is the idea that we're going to learn more from brand in this episode. I hope I'm wrong, but the deaths last week of the night king all the walkers all the dead Barrick Mela, Sandra. In the same episode really makes it seemed to me like they're dialing fully back on the fantasy and pivoting one hundred percent to the more grounded real politique of the whole show and Riley as you reminded me in director nutters read at AM a from last year where he was asked about the coming season. One of the little nuggets dropped was that there would be no time travel in any of his episodes now using the time travel. Maybe he's prevaricating a bed and saying like, oh, well, a flashback doesn't count as time travel. But it seems unlikely to me. That we're going to learn more from brand either about like the nineteen purpose or his own purpose or anything that might happen. I think a lot of people are wondering what was brand doing last episode when his eyes were rolled back in his head. I just don't think we're going to find any answers. Yeah. I'm with you. It feels like they have left the fantasy and magical portions of the show in the past. What do you want to happen? Even if you think it might not so in any movie or television. I'm just a huge sucker for an ocean's eleven style. Getting the gang together type of montage. And I kind of hope that we get that in this episode as we've said deniro's and her alliances very low on troops and resources to fight this last war. So perhaps they can go recruit Dario, they can go get Robin Erin from the veil. They can get Edmore totally from wherever he is. They can go get your f- from the iron islands. They can go get mirror. Read her father Howland who has not yet appeared in the current time line on the show from the neck, and they can kind of. Go around from place to place in gather up a an ice crew of kind of forgotten characters that can help them in this final conflict. I love that idea that we're just gonna completely change honors at this point and get like John going and tapping someone on the shoulder. It'd be like, hey, we got a job for you. We can get like ATar riff in the background. Yeah. Yeah. Something cool like that. It's just one scene. All right. You know, that would certainly not help with the concerns about jet packing across the continent. No. I like the fun. I like where your minds. I I wanted to be a version of when they went to all the different northern lords before the battle of the bastards, but more fun the little quicker since we only have three episodes left. All right Zach. What do you want to happen? This relates to what you think will happen. Actually, I wanna see the golden company do something because you know, there's a whole idea of show don't tell and yet we've only heard about the golden companies accomplishments in battle. We've never seen it more than that. We haven't seen anything this far to make them seem at all formidable. Especially after John Danny and everyone just defeated the army of the dead. It's hard to go, you know, to further extremes than the army the dead. We saw it hard home. We saw the lake battle. We saw overrunning the battlements at winter fell to this golden company that we've heard good things about, but it's hard to imagine that after defeating the walkers the here's will have any trouble with the golden company. So I wanna see them do something were to learn a little bit more about maybe that a red herring and the show will conclude not with another big battle. I think that's a possibility to look for in the game. I'm curious to see if we get any clues about that this week. They don't even have elephants. They don't even have elephants and that is a huge disappointment. I hope that's what we get from, sir. She this week is just more muttering about elephants. But that's it for us this time as always don't forget to raise us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. And if you have any questions or theories, you want us to break down right into the recap Ables dot com, and we'll try to answer. Them on the show be sure to read all of our coverage this week Riley as ten big questions and analyze whether Sansa interior could become the new political power couple. I wrote about the disappearance of fantasy elements from the show and discussed the concept of complexity and whether the last three episodes can deliver on that front, and of course, tune to talk the thrones with mala Jason and Chris live on Twitter every Sunday night. After the episode airs for more instant analysis. We'll be back next week until then enjoy episode for as doctor strange would say we're in the end-game now.

Sam John Jamie Tyrian deniro Jonathan Danny Jamie John king Tyrian golden company west rose Dario director HBO David nutter Robert Vallon Entertainment Weekly Riley aria Miguel posh Serfaty
Game of Thrones Season 8, Ep4: "The Last of the Starks"

Kotaku Splitscreen

1:01:01 hr | 2 years ago

Game of Thrones Season 8, Ep4: "The Last of the Starks"

"Listeners. Guess what? We just heard about this. Great new podcast. It's called earth break. It's the newest series from Schuyler. Ginny sleet stars as the last survivor of an alien apocalypse. It's funny. It's scary and heartbreaking all at the same time. Crazy take us into the trailer. My name is lingo hurt. And I've just survived by dumb luck. I guess. Is probably dying. Like everyone else, you're not pregnant. Earth break starring Jenny slate is a six part series debut in on may seven subscribe on apple podcasts or wherever you're listening right now. Welcome one and all whether you drink from goblet of wine, a horn of Mead or cardboard coffee Cup ticket split screens special coverage of game of thrones season eight my name is Kirk Hamilton. And I'm joined by my co host Jason schreier to talk about episode four the last of the Starks a note before we get started this conversation will discuss the events of every aired episode of the show, including this one as well as all of the events in the books. It will not discuss any leaks spoilers, nor will it discuss. The next time on preview, which neither of us watch. Jason like, Thomas Jefferson said. This episode had plenty of that along with some grieving some drinking some boning and some unfortunate killing big picture. What did you think? So I thought it was more watchable than last week's episode. That's for sure I don't know if I liked it. But I certainly enjoyed watching it a lot more than last week where I was just kind of bored and like not really sure it was going on. I have a lot of complaints as we will get to. But there were also some very cool moments and scenes, but I think part of the problem with this season in the last season of the show is that oftentimes it's writing towards those moments instead of letting those moments have organically organically, but I won't doubt. I won't deny that those are cool moments. So that that those are my overall thoughts I have a lot of gripes that will get to. I'm really bummed about the way that feels like characters that Georgia Martin created and meticulously crafted. Over the years are just kind of getting butchered in a way that I'm not really happy with and I don't know how much of that is based on what the got from him for future book material. But it just doesn't feel like that. And we can also get to that as we go. But specifically Tyrian begun the the most unhappy with his evolution. What did you think? Big picture. Yeah. I found this to be a pretty disappointing up soda for all which is sort of a bummer because at least last week. I was more positive on the episode than you. But yeah, I think it's just undeniable that this episode has an issue. I had things that I like things they didn't like I think for my big picture thoughts. I just wrote down three likes and three dislikes. I'll see them very quickly. I liked drunk bream. Drink freon was great. I liked Bruns speech, and I like Browns general world view. I thought that was good, and I liked various interior and finally having a very dangerous conversation. I thought that scene was able to get him. I'll let you finish. No. We're not talking about my things. I'm just listening gonna keep going. Well, we'll get there. We'll we'll do a whole recap dislikes John ghosting ghost. What the fuck that made me? So mad sons betraying John's trust in like, thirty seconds. Also, not a fan of that. And I guess those two things sort of some up my overall gripe which was that it felt like the last twenty or thirty minutes of the episode fit about three episodes worth of material into it. And some of it was good material. But there was so much of a pacing problem that it just felt like a lot of stuff didn't work that actually maybe could have worked. If you just look at what happened. But it just there wasn't time. Like, it's like they ran out of time which kind of confuses me too. I have some thoughts about the butchery of characters question that you brought up. I think that's kind of interesting. We'll get into that in the particulars. But yeah, I it just feels like the show runners and the people who just make this show. The the creative leads you make the show just wanted to be over. And like it's felt like that for a while. And it's been pretty clear based on interviews that they've said they just want the show to end and feels like they're just cutting corners to get there. Like there. Just they just want out yet. It's interesting. I mean, I totally get dedicating ten years to something. And just being like, okay, we need to end this. And and I totally understand that you there is no amount of episodes. They could have that would let them satisfactorily end this massive novel story like series, that's probably never gonna end on its own terms. So I get that too. It does feel like if feels weird like like HBO mandated, you have six episodes, and they said, okay. Well, fine. If you insist we'll take you know, when I'm sure they it's I I don't know. I don't know about the production. It seems like they could have had more episodes. So I agree that it's a little bit odd. It feels like at odds with sulfur something the pacing stuff in particular. But let's get into the the point. About what you said is that the bronze scene is the perfect example, like a badass moment that makes no sense. How we got there? It feels like they just wrote towards that instead of leading and happen organically. So we'll get to that. When we discussed that specific moment because I have some thoughts on that too. Yeah. I'm sure we will let's get into it. So we begin winter fell, of course. And we're in this aftermath of the battle a funeral service for the dead. Everyone is sort of at assigned like pirate. They're reading for like Arias at Barrick and Danny's Jura, and as theon and everyone sort of grieving over their specific main character tied as well as the unnamed, you know, stacks of bodies again. So you must be really disappointing because last year you were our last week. You were like they have like the consequences of his are going to be so dire. You thought people would have died off screen you thought that this was going to be this big brutal massacre. And really it just had very little consequence that whole funeral scene would have just been so much more impactful if like one. Person that everybody loved to die like one person that we cared about. Even just want like had died. Yeah. I mean, I still feel the way that I felt like watching the episode. I still feel the way that I felt that it was horrifying. I was watching a whole bunch of people die, and it was awful and that conveyed to me the gravity of the battle. So I'm still just not really on board with this Amine named character needs to die for feel impactful about the red shirts. I do. I mean, I thought John speech was pretty good. He gave this cool speech about how these people sacrificed wasn't for nothing. And it kinda you know, I think he did he did Justice to them. I was impressed seemed like his voice was different was voice different in the he was doing his his Christian bale. Batman. Yes. Yeah. That's kind of what he was doing he needed to sound inspiring. So he turned it on. So they like the Pires and afterward. They have party because there's do after a battle get drunk and everybody celebrates being alive. Which is I I assume that's what you do after a battle. I have never been in a battle. But in the Suming, that's what I would want to do after battle. So this party scene is pretty fun. We start with. Gandhari, and he's looking for of course, because he's sort of you know, he's in love with which isn't ends tragically. She killed the Nike. It's true. Are is pretty cool. She he gets up Danny kind of calls him out and single out. And she gives him storms end and says, basically, your now the Barath, Ian in charge and shit fan fiction right there. It makes no sense. That makes no sense. Not only Ganji. This. Nameless. Soldier face a soldier. Not nameless. Faceless soldier who didn't do anything of note in the battle to. He made weapons for everybody. Did that was very useful. In a lot of other black sensors a whole, we don't know. Maybe he was the guy in charge for to guy is like very much. It's ridiculous. So Ganji is this random Robert raffia and bastard, right? Who has never been to storms, and as far as we know except maybe no he went to dragon sewn with with Melissa Ndre. So he has absolutely no claim to storms and other than the fact that they're no more Barath eons. But like he doesn't know anybody there. He has absolutely no reason to there's no reason to think that he could lead people there, and like come in and take over as Lord when they've been living for years like just on their own with their own dynamics and social systems and deniers comes along. And it's like now, you're the Lord of storm's end because you're hot dude with the name in the show. And we thought that we it'd be cool. If you and are you hooked up which fine, but like for him to suddenly have this position of great power. And for everyone to. Act. Like, that's a smart political move from deniro's is just ridiculous. That was preposterous to me. It's not a smart move. I'm definitely with you on that. Yeah. Played it like it was. All right. It's a very generis move to just think. Okay. Sure. We'll just kind of shake things up here in this place. I don't really understand Tyrians. Tyrians smart move smart move, Danny? As we saw from teary on the Sepah. He's he's maybe not the man he used it as a bummer. So Brandon you're drinking together. Everyone's kind of having fun Tyrian makes has the very quotable line. We may have defeated them. But we still have us to contend with great line. And you know, Tyrian talks with brand we've got a good scene of them together. Brand kind of talks more about being the three eyed raven, which is definitely one of my lingering questions is just like is it like to be the three eyed raven any kind of says, I live mostly in the past which I think we we've seen brands of future. But it seems like the three and raven mostly is about the past. So I guess that's what that's like is like, you're just in eternal, sunshine and the spotless mind. All the time. They really do not have a lot of time to resolve that question and his deal. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe they won't. Maybe they won't anyways. Jamie -tarian reenter drinking brand gets very drunk. It's extremely good. There's been so much good brand. Content and drunk eight actually made me very happy. Various sort of notices to narrow noticing how the dudes are all about John snow. There's kind of this whole it's it's interesting. It's kind of well well done this. I thought this is a pretty well directed episode. I felt like I could always they did a good job of tracking these conversations through this room sort of like this whole party sequence. And she gets up and leaves sort of seeming upset various follows her. Meanwhile, what else there are some young women who are sort of hitting on padraic in the hound the the hound resists the one who's hitting on him saying there's only one thing that'll make me happy which makes clear gain bowlers very excited because what could you be talking about? I kinda got the sense. Did you get the sense from this that Santa had sort of sent those girls over and that she was kind of overseeing this and one, and I didn't even think about it happen or care? I kinda got that sense. That sounds sort of working everybody being the lady of winter fell which sort of struck me as cool. Yes, she talks to the hound the hound says to her, you know, you should come with me. When I when I offered to take you away from king's landing, and she's like, well, all these things happen to me. But without them. I wouldn't be who I am now, and he's sort of like word, and you know, just worth pointing out that that's like that. I didn't like that character note from her like, I just it seems so overly simplistic, and then seem kind of like oh trauma must happen to someone in order for them to become great, and that shoot almost see this blessing, which is kind of shoes describing it here. I kind of didn't buy that from Santa. I feel like sons would see it in a more nuanced way than that. Because like that's pretty messed up thing for the show to kind of be reinforcing. I dunno like, I get why she in the hound would both feel that way the hound is also very shaped by trauma, and you know, they'd have kinship about it. It just seemed like a clumsily delivered line. A weirdly written thing for sounds at say. So it wasn't really a fan of that. Well, it felt like the writers talking being like see look, look what we've done to Santa. We've turned her and like you all criticize us for the sexual assault. But look what we look how awesome. She is. Now. Without that that justifies it because now she's great. And it's like that's not cool. Like, that's not how this works. Yeah. Very clumsy. And yeah, it it's part of what I'm talking about this butchery of these characters and in in all the other ways. I love the way the signs has evolved. And I love the fact that she's probably gonna end up on the iron throne at the end of all this. But yeah, it's it's that was a bummer of a line so trucks aria Genry proposes and says you could come be of lady in a castle just like Ned always wanted. And are of course, says no that's not me because that's not area. Gary never really understood are you? And that's as throwback to seen in the books. I think is us in the show where where net is like one day, you're going to marry Lord. And she's like that. So that's not me. Yeah. Comb cool throwback to season one. Yeah. They're sim in there's so many of those even they're still so many of those in this episode. So it's kind of a bummer 'cause like Henry doesn't really understand area. But I guess he never did. And that's fine. He'll barely figured. I assume this is the lab. Last time where ever gonna see Ganji like I don't see energy coming back ever again. I wonder it's interesting a lot of these. Maybe will it felt kind of. Yeah. You can sum up some of them up at the end. Maybe but it did feel like there was some real farewells on this show some more satisfying than others for. Sure Jamie, as they're playing kind of if if I guess this correctly about you. I drink game. It's sort of like to have this like never have ever have I ever. Okay. It's kind of playing never have I ever that's the one and Jamie guesses that Brennan's. The virgin Brienne is like whatever fuck you guys. I'm leaving Jamie goes off after her this kind of fun. Another thought well-directed sequence of just body language as torment comes in and Jamie, kind of like surrogate. But no. And he's. Tyrian is like have some wine. It's going to be okay. And it's just kind of there's a lot of unspoken communication about. What's happening? And they go off together, Jaime and Brienne get together. And it's pretty wonderful. He says I've never slept the night before. And she says I have never slept with anyone before. Yeah. I'm not a big fan of Jaime and Brienne hunting home. I feel like they have such a good friendship. That's ruined by this. Well, I think back to believe it's in the books. There are some sequences where he finds himself attracted to her and doesn't know what to make of it because he's never it's almost like I'm trying to think I feel like this has been in other. This is actually a sex in the city plotline. That's what I'm thinking of its Charlotte sex in the city fought lying Surrey everybody who didn't watch sex in the city, but there's a great Stevens where she realizes that she's attracted to someone who isn't like the type of guy she thinks she should be attracted to, but it's like how sexual attraction actually works anyways. It's a great storyline for Charlotte. Smith city, and it's sort of similar in the books to Jamie being like, oh, I'm so in love with sir c. She's beautiful. She's like my perfect lions. And then he kind of like unexpectedly finds himself attracted to bring I think they're like bathing together or something. And he's like, oh like what the fuck, and he kind of has these thoughts. And then he pushes them aside. Because that's not who he is. I saw this. I feel like the Mike at together in the books to kind of like that storyline. So and I liked both of these actors and just thought they were. Yeah fan I'm not against it. I just I'm not a huge fan of it next week. John finally, getting a moment to themselves to like talk things through they make out for a second, which is fairly scandalous because at this point, they both know this. I think my notes say something like full knowledge, incest or something all cabs. They never even mentioned that the leaking may care about is that John is like as a claim to the throne. They don't talk about the fact that they're related. That's I don't know. Maybe they just don't care. She says I wish you hadn't told me he says, I don't want the throne. She's like, it doesn't matter. Dude, I've seen how they look at you. I know how this will go. They're going to press your claim for you, which she's not wrong. It does seem like that is fairly likely. She begs del anyone she says swear, salmon, brand is secrecy secrecy. Don't tell anybody. He's kind of having in Hong as I don't know what to do. I hope we can find a way that we can live together. And she just goes is cold. And is like I've told you how do it and just kind of walks away. And it's a very intense and foreshadowing moments. That indicates that things may not go. So well. Since it's ridiculous scenarios like did ariza's. Like, I mean, I don't know this vision of her to this total terrible ruler. Is like I guess she was she always had like a streak of the mad king in her. And she always there was always like hints that she would turn out this way out to be totally power hungry and cruel and ruthless and just self absorbed and only focused on getting the throne. But I don't know it just feels like it's the way that it's been handled has not been adept. I would say, okay. So does him out on this thing since I don't I think this is gonna come up again and again and again throughout the Sepah. So the idea of these characters are acting out of character. And that there things they're doing the domain sense. And they're kind of ruining the characters. I well, I don't know if I agree if I'd say that about to narrow, but yeah, go ahead. So cool. I've been thinking about this. So but to out on that idea a little bit the fact that deniro's it's she's been set up this storyline. The idea. That she's going to become the mad Queen. And you know, it's going to she's going to become the villain in the end has been set up right for the whole show. So right. That one is like pretty established like you said. I don't know show the last. Well, it's always been there. It's always kind of been there. There's always been the question of should she ruler? Not and her gradual transformation, a yeah. The last few seasons, anyways, that's just one example. But like Tyrian now kind of being an idiot, and and making bad decisions is is a big jam and other things that have happened to sir sees decisions, etc. What's tricky about this actor, it strikes me as what's tricky about? It is that the characters need to have changed over the course of the show. Like, it wouldn't be interesting. If everyone was just the same person that they were at the very beginning. Because that's not how game of thrones in particular works, right? Like people change, the problem is that like everyone was really changing a lot up to the point where the books stopped, and then they had to keep changing the characters they had to keep them moving along toward their end points and actually like in the last third or whatever how much how much of this story the show runners needed to tell the needed to really do a lot of the big growth in the big change. The big surprising things that happen. And it seems to me almost like we're watching that cassa just be almost impossible for the actors and for the writers without the source material the gone, and it's like we're watching them have to do all that change in largely elegant ways because they're just kinda stuck they the books carry them up to the hardest part, and then kind of left them with all of these characters actually changing. So Santa is actually a good example of the opposite. Because Santa didn't change that much in the books the books. She's still at this point where she's actually in the Vale still she's living under fake name last time. He saw her like little finger had just killed Lisa Aaron so it was just it's like just Sansa like like living alive there as his adopted daughter, right? She is not become this ruthless woman who is cold and calculated and this alternate schemer, this brilliant schemer at all, and I'm actually really happy with how she's evolved in the show. I think that's a really good example of the show runners and Ray, the people make the show turning this character into something really. Cool. The problem is that with the other characters especially Tyrian until lesser sensors and Brienne and couple of others, but Tyrian, especially it's like they've changed him. But they haven't actually shown why or how he's changed like how deteriorate suddenly turned into a more. Like, there's no there's absolutely nothing in the show to actually like trace that and tree set of allusions. That's the problem with it. It's like it's not just that they were forced to take him on this journey of growth and change. Its the didn't. It's like they did the change without doing the germ. Yes, precisely I mean, that's what I'm saying. They had a very difficult task put before them because they had to do the work of the final developments in some cases. They did a good job in some cases. They've done a less. Good job. But it was a very difficult job as my point. And sometimes they've done it poorly like with Tyrian, it's sort of, you know, happening abruptly or with scenarios, even which she had a lot of groundwork laid for this. But there's it does feel like having seen this episode there. There are a couple missing steps to her transformation would have made it work. Just like there are maybe a couple missing steps or something that happened Tyrian that could have explained how he kind of wound up thinking the way that he thinks right? It's like they didn't quite pull it off. Because they didn't quite take us from point A point B, really from point deed point that. I don't think that's because they were in this tough situation. I think it's because and this goes along feces they just wanted to end the show like they just wanted to skip ahead get shit done with. And that's why everything is moved so fast. And that's why season seven like with the fast travel that everyone was complaining about it's like they just want this shit to be over. They wanted to tie everything together get him into winter Velez quickly as possible. And as a result of that they're writing towards the destination instead of writing in a way where it or the story organically comes out of the catches decision. So instead of writing like all right now what Tyrian doing this situation the raiders are thinking. Okay. And now we have to get them down to one dragon. Now, we have to get them their forces cut off. So we'll have. Tyrian do this. So it leads that instead of starting in one place in writing from their they're starting at the end and writing backwards, even if like destroys some of these characters as result. Let's get moving at the war table. It looks like everyone's kind of talking through it looks like they're evenly matched with Surtees forces. Apparently, we learned that Yara has retaken the iron islands, not a huge surprise and the new prince of Dorn pledges support, which I thought was funny. They couldn't even give them a name. They couldn't be like. Well, it goes. I mean, it's like okay during doesn't matter anymore. No one likes door. Moving on sons in areas have kind of a disagreement, and then John steps in and says, no we're going with deniro's. She's the one that we're obeying. She's the Queen of the seven kingdoms the their plan, which is to lay siege to king's landing and in caused the people to turn on Searcy. And if she fights them in the field John says, we will defeat her in the field, which seems like a kind of a vague plan to me. Texted you. I was like when did when was it? Explain why they split up. They didn't explain this. I rewind the scene when I was preparing for this other sewed, and they do not explain why they split up. Now, there's a kind of gonna sume a couple reasons maybe they couldn't fit took boats. They couldn't fit the unsullied into threat key on the boats, so Tyrian Davos or merging with them. There could be reasons, but they don't explain specific to the strategy. Why the bulk of their forces going down the kings road as the rest of them are moving Navaly to dragon stone, and they're approaching king's landing at different times. Which is asinine. This is all absurd. It's like they're they're writing towards these moments like instead of writing what these characters would actually do like, even might be a bad general. And that might be part of the story that she's just not great at this. But nobody would do the stupid war plan that they did in this episode like that is just so impossible to believe. It's preposterous. What they did. I mean, I think that the plant the deal of them. Going ahead of the other army was forced perhaps by Sirius' attack. And the way that that changed the circumstances. They had to react to that. Which I think that's possible that she kills the drag. We're not there yet that she captures like. Oh, okay. Heiresses number advisor. Somehow they missed even though they have the we're gonna we're just okay. Let's keep going. Let's give. So anyways, that's kind of their strategy. Not. It's doesn't totally make sense splitting up, but I have to assume that it's because the bulk of their forces ground forces. They just have to walk down the kings read the narrow says they're going to win. Jamie says he's staying behind an RN sounds a pull John aside after the meeting, and they're like, dude, we need a word. Yeah. Jamie saying behind also makes no sense. Like, why would he ever do that? He's over it. I don't know anyways areas onset and brand on meeting the gods. I liked the scene because it's nice to see the remaining Starks together Jonah's making the case for for deniro are in Santa or extremely clearly not on board Brandon. He kind of exchanging meaning. Aloke and brand says it's your choice whether to tell them, and so Jon swears them to secrecy. And he starts to tell them. He's brand right, right? He says brand, and then we never see their reactions, which is I feel like they deprived of of this incredible moment to see our incense of reaction to this. And we didn't pisses me much the passage of this information was definitely it all took place offscreen, which is surprising because there's some good actors who got to learn this. And this would have been fun to how could we not get to see aria and Santon learn that their half brother who they've like are you especially as love John like like a like, a real brother, and like, suddenly they find out that he's actually their cousin and like he's the tar Garin, and it's like to not get to see that is man such a waste so many bad decisions from these hunters. Yeah, they had to fit a lot into eighty minutes. Next scene is Jamie interior of two more minutes to see our incense like getting stunned getting to act that out man. Of course. No. I'm not making excuses for them. Everybody finding out this whole whisper chain, but REM Santa come on. Sorry. I'll stop that's fine. Jamie interior, Tyrian meet up to talk before Tyrian sets out. They make some fairly tasteless jokes about Brienne. But a Tyrian does seem happy for Jamie. And then Baronne comes in swaggering Bron just shows up with his crossbow. He punches Tyrian in the face and make some jokes and recalls. Of course, the Tyrian once said if anyone's paying you to kill me come to me first, and I'll double it. So Brown is getting what what's the castle the variety wishes castle river run and tears like, well, I'll give you high garden, which people are throwing around castles in this episode is a lot of people thrown around a lot of promises about castles, Brian gives this very great speech. I thought that kind of encapsulates his worldview, and basically sums up to all the noble houses, y'all think you're so great. But really as Ron says you'll just start with a hard bastard, who's good at killing people. You just kill the bunch of people. And then you. Kill the bunch more people, and then you made it so that your family was some noble fucking family. And it's all bullshit, and you're just murderers, and it's a very brand view of the world, but not an inaccurate one. If we look back at the history of western so I just sort of liked the scene just like Braun, and I like interactions between these guys even though it was over to quickly and kind of ridiculous material promises to brand that he's gonna give him high garden Brown's like I'm not even fighting, but I will fucking kill you. If you don't give me and they've yeah, cool scene. But when you think about it, and I'll falls apart because it's like how did Brian get through winter fells guards. How did Braun oh, Brian is very. That I'm not worried about that concede through anything. Okay. So Brian just like road up all the way to inter Phil from king's landing over the course of two weeks or whatever just so he could come and say give me high guarded, and then he was fun. Yeah. I mean, it's wants a better. He's like I bet I can get something that the move around. And he did he walked away with Huggins worth the ride share saying now, he's just gonna go peace out. And maybe Brian end up the iron throne. He'll be the only survivor. Good. He's sort of has the right mindset for it. So we cut to REM the hound who meet up on the kings road writing Southie. Both kind of head on head off together, which is nice only because it reflects the way the two characters are both not really team players and the way I love that. They're going off together that's super cool and makes sense for both characters. And like, actually I totally buy that down for that. And by the way, even though I've been very critical of the fan fiction. He stuff that the show has headed towards I actually think click gain Bill is necessary. And I'm glad we're getting it because it feels like even even in the books that feels like that's the necessary arc of your character. Like, you can't have to not have the GameBoy would almost be like deniro's dying and not getting before she gets the lesser. It's like you need the game bowl. It just makes sense. So yeah, I'm glad are headed that way. Yeah. The how'd literally says I'm heading to king's landing on unfinished business is probably my favorite line episode. Just because I I laugh. Imagining all caps game bowl gift tweets sons, watches Damaris fly off on drug on she's bringing ragle with her John is like not writing regal because it's because he couldn't because of the script of emphasis that he couldn't. Yeah. Tyrian approaches and sort of talks to sons, and he's he's kind of doing his diplomacy thing. He's trying to say look you just back to us like we need her. We need to make this work. You seem dead set against her sons, as you know, sort of saying, oh, we'll John is going to be this liaison to the north and tyranny, we both know that when Jonah's in king's landing you're going to be the power in the north. We need you on our side. And as he's getting ready to leave signs, stop some, and is like, you know, what if there was another outage in and then again, we don't get to see Tyrian. Learn about John which that was definitely when I thought it'd be cool to watch somebody else. Learn this because this is this major important secret in the west coast, and it's like first of all the ridiculousness of which nobody keep secrets after all that. And then second of all like, the fact that man. Yeah. That we don't get to see these reaction. Yeah. Honestly, like not seeing the reaction is a bar, but it is a bummer that sons betrayed John's trusts so quickly. And so time gets a little Lou. Gucci in this episode, and it's been loosey-goosey on this show has its time and travel for awhile. But. In particular. There are times where it feels like weeks have passed maybe. And and more people go all the way, you know, to dragon stone to king's landing, there's definitely some passive time and enough of these plot developments over this kind of next part of the episode. This is the part of the episode that stopped. I was like I cannot keep up with this. This is so much happening without enough time, and this it was just tricky to deal with and one of them is just sons making the decision to betray John's trust, which is like holy shit kind of a major decision, and she just tells tearing it I mean, I know that she interior and have a connection, and and she trusts him. And I get that. But there just wasn't. It wasn't really doing it. Because she hates an heiress. It's not really clear why she hates the Nara so much. That's not really here. But if you buy it trust her if you buy that, she wants John to take the throne, then of course, she's gonna tell Tyrian, I'm less. I buy that a lot more than I by John telling scenario in the first place. Yeah. About that. Well, some about not buying it. I don't not by that sense of betray John. 'cause like you said she totally has her incentives to do that. It's more that it just happened so quickly and all of this stuff happened so quickly that there's just not enough time to deal with his breathing would otherwise what would otherwise be interesting. Character beats one of those is sons of making the decision that no, I know better and deniro's the wrong choice and John's wrong, and she's probably right about so, you know, she's making the right decision. But you know, seeing that process would have been kind of cool. Yeah. It's is suffering so much from the fact that the the show runners, and let's going torment and John are meeting in the courtyard of winter fell. This is a combination. Nice slash very frustrating scene. Torment tells John, you know, he's going back to the north joke again about how the wildlands call winter fell the south John tells and he's setting sending ghosts north with him. Which was when I began to think, oh, what's like. So we're really not gonna see ghost get to do any fighting. We see ghosts Hmm. Apparently lost his ear in the battle of winter fell. Looking looking good, though goes this hanging out torment, and John have a really nice scene. They like hug and tormentors cool, and I really liked the two of them. And and says tells Janis like the real north in new, you know, which is super true when you think about everything John went through together, and the idea of torment this total bad ass, you know, northern like wild free guy learning to respect, John and the way that John really did kind of earn it. I don't know I like their relationship and the ways that it reflects the ways that John has changed in the things John has gone through really liked this scene. John John's goodbye Gilly, also really nice and we learn Gilead pregnant. I thought this was cute scene. And just so that that's got to be good by salmon Geli for good this very much. These all seem like good bye to me. Because also there's nothing left in the north. That's a threat anymore that we know of right? Can just go live happily ever after in the north. It's just sad that this is how Sam goes like his only purpose in life was to tell John that he's the true Warren with son of rate. Maybe we'll see if that's if if it is an evidence good that was the bummer, although it would be cool. It would be cool if the show ends on like Sam and Gilly and their new babies rent? He's writing. Yeah. That would be and he's writing the history of lesser us. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be very that would be very Tolkien to end at that. But cool, I would be happy. Sam tells John you're the best friend. I ever had John says you to Sam it's cute. Then the worst thing ever happens. We're ghost wines at John and John just sort of fucking walks off. He doesn't even goes. Yeah. One of a Suming they would have to pay for that. And that would have been an expensive scene for the petting the CGI ghost. But jeez. Like, they weren't even shown in the same shot. Yeah. Which also again, I think that was probably for logistical reasons. But it's your dog. Dude, like pet your dog by your dog. It's like they spent seasons setting him up as like the true protector. Johnson like he was guarding his body when he is dead. It's yeah. It's really just another character like destruction by the show, like the show destroying character relationship for no reason, just put drinking how do you really feel characters? It's so sad. It's because like, I know I was kidding. You don't you don't need to elaborate? I know. But I know some people are like oh my God Jason so negative. But like you have to understand that like I love these books. I've probably read them all like five times. It's one of my favorite book series. It's not my favorite book series ever. I love these characters. I love the way Georgia are Martin writes. I love this story. And I was so happy like when it was I adapted on HBO and just getting the on screen is really cool is like really well done and just to watch slowly as I've gradually realized that the show would outpace the books, and I would have to see the end to this story on the show, which can't be ignored. Because it's so big in our culture like it would be impossible to not watch it because I want to wait for the books. Yeah. It's just bums me out. I wonder if there are people doing that. I would love to. I bet there are people who are just like. Nope. Fuck this. Pass this our friend. Bet there. He well. It's for his job. He writes about he writes like it was impossible to just impossible. We'll wait. I think that I bet you there are people. I would love to hear about people that would be an interesting article, maybe on a website like otaku dot com. Some someone who works for that site. Can write read an article about this? I think it would be really fun to talk to people who have been basically blinkered on game of thrones. Since the books went persons the show impasse, the bucks and are just still gonna wait. And they're like I'm gonna wait twenty years. If that's what it takes. I'm not fucking watching this ending because I could kinda see doing that. I don't know like I'll never watch the the golden compass movie, right? 'cause I don't wanna see that shit because I love those books, and I don't wanna see the bad the bad movie. I could kinda see someone being like, no, whatever miss this cultural event and even possible to not be like you will be spoiled on the ending. But it wouldn't be the same experience of if it really bums you out so much right to have to watch your character favorite characters. Like do the thing. Maybe what happens. But anyways, I'd love to hear. If anybody listening to this knows of people. Who are doing that? I would love to hear about it. Let's keep moving because to the ocean gray Ramin Musonda air with Genesis fleet. Everything is fine. And everything is going to totally be fine. It's all great. They're hanging out. And it's just so great and below deck Tyrian and various are talking about John's true identity because just everybody tells everybody the secret immediately, and we also didn't see various learn about it. But we he seems extremely perturbed various at this point has kind of is very on team mad Queen scenarios would kill John. This is bad. Like where this is. This is not going to end. Well, Tyrian is still kind of torn wants to stay to SOS as Syrian various bantering again. I will say yes. Yes. And Tyrian does of really just sad deflecting. Well, whatever we have to deal with this more immediate thing. We have to deal with Kingsland. Yeah. Which is very like dude you need to be thinking about this. Clearly, they both know that this is not like they have to deal with us interior. Just doesn't want to. So as their flying ragle, man. As their has their flying. Wriggle takes a huge crossbow bolt to the chest out of nowhere. Second bolt goes through his neck, and you're like, okay thought Reagan died last of us owed. He died this episode. All right P rig all sort of unceremonious end brought about by year on great joy, of course. And he has launched a sneak naval attack somehow, despite the fact that the people he's thinking of on have to dragons and can see this is the stupidest thing that game has ever done because I do I don't know. We'll just everything about it. Just the fact that the dry like being in the air. You didn't see the ships. The fact that this that urines crossbow like ballista shooting a moving target can somehow get these precise next shots and like three shots in a row like on this moving dragon. And then the fact that like to narrow instead of maybe going around behind the boats and burning them all because she has a fucking dragon and the crossbows are only pointed one direction leave. Like, the whole the whole that was that might be like the moment that I was just like the show is too far gone. I mean, I probably started thinking about a while ago. But that was the dumbest thing that's even dumber than them trying to kidnap white and bring it back to see like this was the dumbest thing came through ever done. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know about that. It was the scene didn't make a lot of sensors like the things that happened in. It didn't make a lot of sense. Even though we've got them where they needed to go. There was something that I enjoyed which was that you're on a tax and the naval battle breaks out. And then Tyrian gets hit by falling mass and his knocked out after the fight and they've called I like that only because it took me back to season one. When that happens the battle of what does it the wood whispering whispering wood? And just the way that the show used to do that a lot there. It's funny like I was reading this somewhere. Some of those pointing this out that like the show basically like used to be a show that would never show a massive Appleseed because shows didn't do that. When game of thrones first game. On. There wasn't an expectation that we're going to see the most outrageously huge battles the way that we do now. And it was kind of funny flashback officer because watching battles and very interesting. There's a lot of blurred. It's hard to tell what's going on. And like, yeah. I mean, I just don't think battles are ever unless like superhero battles where everything's very clearly visually like choreographed. I don't think the game of thrones battles have ever been really interesting except for blackwater. That was interesting because they were doing stuff beyond just like sword fighting. It was like all about the chain and cutting off the these ships and the wildfire. So that was really cool. But but other battles have just been underwhelming. I think but yeah, no. This is cool. I like that they just knocked him out. And then we see like the the the carnage on the shore. But like the fact that generis didn't just go up behind them. And settle those boats on fire is like one of the biggest plot holes that the show has ever had like why is there any explanation like that? I'm not thinking of think like is there any? The reason that she wouldn't other than her just being stupid and angry. And like, I don't know. I guess like it's risk of a dragon. I mean, they could have ballista on the back of the ships. And then chair, you know, like risking drug on is dicey. And you've just lost one dragon. And she's like grieving the loss of one of children's. So she's not thinking straight. There's like reasons, I guess, I don't know. What really that plot hole is not like my my problem. But but overall it definitely had the feeling of. Well, we needed to have her down a dragon needed this to happen. And then, of course, the other contrivance, which is actually the pretend tribes that bugged me more is that misunder has been captured. So Yvonne happen like we don't know how she is actually captured. We see everybody on on on the beach and grey worm can't find Masan irony being that they were going to head off to the beach together. No, he is on the beach alone without her so like, assuming they boarded the ship, right? 'cause that's only way they'd be able to kidnap her. Why would they kidnap this random serving girl and not like Tyrian? Oh, well this point. I think they would. No who Masada is. She's not a random survey share. But why would why would they kidnap only her if they were able to not have really makes sense. If you think about the fact that they only can napped her. But how do they get on the boat in the first place to get her? Like, we never saw. I don't know is I kid helping her could see sir c. It seems like surveys plan, which is maybe a questionable plan. But it seems like our plan is to go Damaris into burning a bunch of shit, and thus turning people against her like that is seems to me from the subsequent events of the size of the we're about to get into that. That's what he wants. He wants and says he wants that to happen. Definitely the best thing to do is to kidnap the last remaining person that is like deniro, tether to the people in like keeping her together. It's a lot for to. I'll grant you. And like, I don't know. Yeah. The particulars of how they got in and got her. How does she know? Who like, yeah. It's. Yeah. She at this point like Masan has been around for a while. She could definitely no, okay. There's this woman who is like deniro says number one adviser, and she's also a steadying hand and without her. You know, you could go scenarious and actions. So I'm assuming that's that was actually a plan. It wasn't just random because it was random then it's just doesn't make sense. So anyways that happens. It's a bummer. We got the king's landing CS hanging out with Hiber n- kings lining sucks. Like, nobody cooling king's landing. So whenever they go there. It's just sitting around with her sad. Army sell swords or like mad. Scientists bigs AVI, dude. Anders AVI best friend yet. Exactly. And her like, total cream, the great singer seriously soci-, the Maistre zombie best friend and fucking Europe. That's like seriously who gets hang out with. I wonder if she's just like whatever burn it all down. I'm just hanging out with nothing. But the worst characterised out. Remember, how different urine is in the books. Right. Like, let's not this like Soir fee like hands fire duties like this fucking evil Warlock, very different. Yeah. He is significantly different. I don't love your on. I think we covered that. And in the books, by the way, he has this horn that he says can you control dragons, which is way more interesting than fucking cross than. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of those plot points that I don't like I'm not surprised that they cut, and I don't really mind them cutting because there's all these little things like that that they've entered that Georgia Marin is introduced show like, okay. Well, those are all interesting possibilities, but you got to winnow. So I'm definitely replace it with a crossbow is a little a magic crossbow. Yeah. Imagine. Yeah. It's like a dragon killing bliss. They took the game war groove ballistics can instantly kill dragons. Yeah. It is actually an old firearm lem thing to right is that like the the range stuff always hurts flying. It's it's it's established. He's clearly just played some some fire and the workgroup your endless own switch. Okay. So basically, the gist of the scene is that tells you're on that her the child she is carrying his his carrying on her tradition of lying to men about Jamie Spacey's, and by the way, just a quick thing is like if when did she actually get pregnant unless she's just lying about everything. But like assuming she's pregnant since they've set it up so much when did she get pregnant? Why would she was showing at this point? Well, I don't know about this showing question she slept with Jamie, though, there was like a scene where she kind of was like really messed up remember the particulars. But it was like a dark sex scene between them well after he was not comfortable with her anymore. And she was being weird, but they did sleep. Once. And then I believe shortly after that as she says, she's pretty yeah. So since then there's been like the battle of the wagon, the Lou wagon thing, and then Jamie going all the way up to winter fell and fell zombies. And then them coming all the way down. So like, it must have been months. Right. Like, she should be clearly praying than I mean, you know, widdly wobbly time. Yeah. I'm thrones. Is again, this is something that George armor and would have given thought to like a meticulously plotted show would actually care about. I'm just saying like this dull game of thrones would've cared about t tells like this. Yeah. No, I've wondered about the same thing. But then again, maybe she's not pregnant and. Yeah, no, totally as one that would be fair fair answer to this. So we, of course, see that she's captured Masan days, she's making her wear chains. Again. Speaking of Whibley wobbly time that happened really fast. She suddenly has Misawa at the keep. Okay. I guess everybody's in close proximity at this point. Then we cut back to our good guys too narrow Ingraham or booth super pissed. And one to attack various pleading with them not to he's like, that's that's a mistake. He tells scenarios don't become what you struggle to defeat in the sort of same refrain. We keep hearing is you can't go burn out king's landing because that's something that your father would have done, and you don't wanna be like him, deniro's, whatever. Ruling the seven kingdoms is my destiny, I will serve my destiny. No matter the cost pretty dicey thing for someone to say and tearing various sort of share a look on that and -tarian convinces scenarios to at least give a chance to surrender and to let him take a chance to prevent slaughter into nearest agrees to that. After the scene various interior and have seen that I liked in general, very dangerous conversation. Uh-huh. I love. This is my favorite scene in the opposite. Yes. So the two of them really talk about it. And it's clear that they're they play it very well. It's clear that it's two men trying not to say the extremely dangerous thing that they're both actually talking about. Which is are we about to betray this person that we've supported for all these months or years? And you know, are we going to basically, you know, commit treason. And what does that mean? So Tyrian is team generis. He says John doesn't even want. The throne various is much more of a realist and seems to generally have he's a better understanding of what's going on at least by my read from the outside. He's like note she's too strong for him. She'd never learned to be on the throne Tyrians like Fatemi, they could balance one another out. But various just like, no, this is a mistake back into as a mistake. And he kind of reminds Tyrian of the thing he says about how he he's like of the realm. I don't serve any rulers I serve ordinary people, and they deserve to be ruled, well, which is a cool callback to various whole deal. And it's just nice to see various have more of a presence. I think in general. Yeah. They he also kind of implies that if they don't back to that. She'll need to die Tyrian is like, please. Please don't do this fair is just they kinda he ends unresolved says, look, we both have a difficult choice to make also good funny moment in the scene where various is in full fucking pundit mode, and like points out the deniro is like we'll be popular with the lords of the north because the John will be with earth because he's a man, and I have expected him to start talking about rustbelt Democrats. Hey, this is Chris Christie LIZA virus LIZA with CNN. Yeah. I love that scene. I love ARIS, viruses such character various was one of the few actors who has not been destroyed by the show, the only nation for Tyrian just continuing to be a moron is that. He's just madly in love with in areas, which I guess I would kind of by because his one weakness has always been just like his love, and there are other possible explanations than that. I think like he could be so fucked up from what he's been through that he's gone. He's cleaning to this one thing. Because he needs to believe in their their character reasons that he would be blinkered in the situation that go beyond just being in love with dinners. But I agree that it's it hasn't been well illustrated know, why he's doing this. Yeah. And it's just been a bummer, and what happens next of him is just the absolute cream of apt. The worst worst thing. Let's keep going the cream the cream of the worst thing. So we come back to winter fill the shitty. Crop Jamie over here is what happened with the fleet. He's sort of is sits and stares into the into the fire ethically. And then decides he's leaving brand comes out and tries to stop him. And he's like I'm going back to my sister. You think she says you're a good, man? He's like, I'm not a good, man. He confesses to pushing out the window. He's confesses strangling cousin though, I saw online I believe he did not strangle his cousin believe that he bludgeoned his cousin to death and strangled. Another guy. So he remembers it wrong. But hey, it was a complicated series of events. He says she's hateful. And so am I he doesn't even seem convinced by, but he leaves anyways and Brian sobs as he leaves? So this scene this this this scene has some problems. But it also like is sort of interesting somebody. So obviously, I think it's stupid that Brienne out of nowhere like crying over Jamie leading God. Solving cheese. So this is the only this could have worked, and I don't know about sobbing, but like her them leaving could've worked. They just had a little more time to establish them as a couple. This is really one that felt to me like they just needed more time it felt more like a rushing issue than anything else. But I I so I saw some reads people saying this is kind of like Jamie wants to go get back with, sir. And I didn't get that from Nelson. He's going to kill her. Yeah. He was like I haven't finished business. I have to resolve this, which totally makes sense. And is actually interesting that he's like, I can't actually sit this one out. I'm the one who has to finish which probably is that I actually like that. That's a logic him there. But Brienne fucking sobbing makes me so angry that they just like turned her from like one of the most bad ass characters on the show to this like weeping woman. Who's like, oh, no my man that I just like. Yeah. It just seems more like she would go with him or she would totally understand. And be like, yeah. I get it. You have unfinished business like. I know about snake. I'm a night. Like, you just that didn't that didn't work for me as a coach didn't make sense seems like they should have gone to do it together. But anyway, there we go and our final our final scene is a face off a parlay outside of king's landing between two narrow sort of expeditionary force. And sees walled up. Keep protecting force deniro has her small detachment of unsullied sees atop the wall with the mountain and masonic hybrid comes out to parley with Tyrian, the two hands of the various queens, come out to talk, they talk, and they each basically say, you know, demands is surrender and then the nearest demands surrender. And then Tyrian really appears to be trying. He's really just doing dude look come on like, we can keep thousands of people from dying right now, if we just figured something out and Khyber, and of course, is a psychopath and like not interested. So that they have a plan and part of their plan is like expecting to burn short. And and is. Psychopath is gonna is not going to budge. So tearing just walks right past him. And he plays his kind of car that he still has with which is that he knows she's always loved her children. And that if she surrenders she and her unborn child can live. You're actually notices this that Tyrian knows about the baby. Which of course, gives lied to to search telling him that it's his presumably anyways, and she seems kind of affected by what he says. But of course, this is all part of her plan. So she's not going to going to deviate. Now. She tells Masan days say your last words, they, you know, they talk for a second longer than misunder cries jerk Harris and the mountain cuts her head off as everyone gets really bummed out. Deniro's makes the extreme Kansas ever seen murder face at the end of this where the camera does lingers on her extreme murder face for ever. And it's really intense and the episode ends, so okay. So a lot of questions here. First of all Tyrian trying to appeal to. She's emotions again after failing so hard the last time. He did it is just hard to keep buying like Tyrian fucking hates his sister. Or should heed his sister. And should not be like, this is ridiculous at this point. And the fact that certainly didn't just kill him where he stood and kill all of them. Were. They said is also ridiculous. Like, why are they following parley rules here? Why does rules of more? Yeah. Why is certainly still honoring these partly rules like she had a chance just then with all these arrows and ballista pointed at Dinara than her army. And I think the dragon was in there too. Like, they could have taken them. All right, then and there and just ended things so that I don't really buy. I don't really buy it Tyrian would go through all these motions. I don't know why MS Sanday didn't just grab, sir. C and take her down with her like jump or something like that. I guess she was in chains. But still I was expecting a little more from her. I will say one thing that I'm happy that the show did is that I think everyone us included were expecting that either day or grain worm would die to the Zambia's in the last episode as a result of their conversation. The previous episode about going on vacations together. And I think it's actually a cool subversion that they didn't die in Zambia peseta. And instead, they waited and killed one of them in this way. Would you think? Yeah, I was really bummed out by misunders death. I've talked before I really liked grummin Musawi. I just thought they had a release sweet story there. I think the only two characters of color on the show Masan the only woman of color on the show they fucking other than salad or San who is MIA. So that's a I I saw a lot of fans sort of just upset about that. And a lot of people who really like miss Sunday, which I get like I really liked the Sunday to she's a cool character. And this was a pretty bummer way for her to go out in part because they killed her. And you know, they're using her as motivation. For deniro's. So it's like the shitty old trope of killing people in that way. Which okay game attorney does that a lot? But in this case, you know, it's it's like the one woman of color on the show. So I definitely that's kind of a note from me, and I get why people are not happy about that. But also, there's a character problem for me anyways. And that's my Sunday, shouting jerk. Harris, burn them. Yeah. So he's like saying should burn the city is read that like, that's that's what she's trying to say. It seems to me is them Sundays so played into, sir. Sees plan. We're Suming plan. Yeah. Advised deniro to burn the whole city, which is just not Masan days thing. Like, she. That's not she's always been the kind of tempering hand like the connection between us, and the people she understands that people in speech on that's one of the reasons I really like her as a character. So for her to say, no fuck all these people burn them. Like, okay. I get it like on the one hand, I get how she would feel that way especially coming to this foreign land where all these people basically, treat her like shit, and now they're going to murder her. Her that, she would say, okay. Well, fuck all these people in king's landing. I guess I get that. But it's so kind of not they didn't we didn't get to see why she feels that way. And it just felt like it was clearly because we need to go mad Queen and destroy a bunch of stuff. I guess so that we can do this this predetermined storyline. But that didn't work for me as a character note, it just stuck out because I guess as someone who likes him Sunday for her to die out of character was a bummer. Make sense. Makes sense is the writers not thinking about like what the coaches would do. But I try not to. I try not to constantly see the matrix. And like think about why they're doing it. All right. But they did it as a mean as like they want everyone on Twitter. It'd be like, oh, my God him Sanday saying cars, so bad ass like that. That's they just wanted to create this bad ass moment. That's why they did. And like, I get you that you don't wanna think about it this way. But that's that's where the show is right now. It's like all about things that the like writing towards these moments instead of writing organic storylines, and it sucks it's like the opposite. It's like basically turning it from game of thrones. As we knew it to every other generic fantasy trope where it's like, here's this cool moment. How are we going to get there? It sucked. Surely. I don't sad. Yeah. I guess I always find whenever I find myself guessing why they're doing things. I'm always like, I don't know why they did things. Maybe they did it for one hundred different reasons, or maybe they truly believe that. That's something that Masada would think which like I said there is a character motivation that you could walk through a path for her to. Up in a place of fuck all these people in king's landing. So they didn't show it, but they could have gotten there that way too. So I don't really know. And it's at least worth trying to figure out what the character motivations for some of these might be because there are sons sometimes sometimes you're just like hopelessly fan wanking. It an endless circle the try to get to somewhere where it makes sense. But a lot of times there are things that kind of could make sense. And sometimes I think that's interesting to do just on its own. Sometimes it's interesting because it gives leads leads me to wonder what they might do differently in the books, and they're giving more chances because whatever disappointing things might happen over these last three episodes are now to after this one I think it is really interesting that there's gonna be theoretically another version of this told by the original storyteller could be totally different. And that's like a fascinating thing to think about. So it's not just that. We're watching a story ended by the people who not by the person who started it by the people who may that TV show. We're also seeing a first draft for a story that we know is going to have or at least can assume is going to have a like. Oppor- and fully fleshed out ending from the original creator, which actually is kind of interesting. It's a maybe a more optimistic way to think about all of this. And there are these little notes in these little character things that happened that it could. Well, be okay. This character was going to go this route. And this thing was going to happen. The way that they did it was unsatisfying on the show. But if we assume that that's what's going to happen in the books. There's a chance that we're going to get a better version of the story, or at least we're going to see some of those scenes that we didn't see on the show, and I find that very interesting, and I like, hopefully, hopefully, he stays alive long enough to finish the bucks. I'm yeah. And really if you're listening to this, and you're fan of the show, and for whatever reason, you haven't checked out the books allow me to recommend really strongly that you read them because they're so good. And like, I've actually I got him on my phone a while ago, and as just travelling past couple days, and I was reading the first book and the amount of detail, and like just great writing and great moments and some of it is clunky. Don't get me wrong. And then there's some weird weird. Stuff where it's like denarius. Like, there's a chapter denarius has called Joe and ends on the line. It was her fourteenth name day. And it's just like, oh, I did I read that. But but there's so much good stuff in the books, and there's so much rich detail character moments in foreshadowing setups in book one that won't be paid off until book five and so much great stuff in there that I just highly recommended anyone who likes this show and hasn't read the books or whatever. When I do really want to hear from those book readers who aren't watching the show after got fast. We'll see if we hear from some. Yeah. Right. There's no way they missed out on like things like Johnston's parents and like Hoda or and like the the wall coming down like it's impossible to just dodge those spoilers. I think today. No, I'm not saying, they're unspoiled. I'm just saying if there's one thing that the internet has taught me about people it's that there's someone who does everything. And I guarantee that they're groups of people who are in solidarity together on forums. Yeah. Trying to block all possible spoilers. Not and not watch the show, and I love, and I want to know more about them. Yeah. All right. That is it for this episode. We'll be back next week for episode five more last, man. Yeah, we're gonna see what happens and. Yeah. Till Jason Dirk, Harris jet car.

John John Tyrian Davos deniro Tyrians Jamie Brienne Santa king HBO Jason schreier Jenny slate Sepah Georgia Martin Danny Santa Suming Starks Lou wagon Masan
JAN 275: Game of Thrones Season 8 Finale Review (05/21/19)

The Jock and Nerd Podcast

1:13:41 hr | 2 years ago

JAN 275: Game of Thrones Season 8 Finale Review (05/21/19)

"Hey, what's up listener? Thank you for clicking play on the special bonus extra mid week episode of the jock, and nerd podcast. We could not wait until our normal recording day to discuss the series canal of game of thrones. You're gonna get our full spoiler thoughts on episode six of the eighth and final season. Did it stick the landing for us? You'll find out in this edition of the jockey neared weekly for Monday may twentieth two thousand nineteen. This is James Polk. Are you looking for an enjoyable podcast? Well, look no further. Visit jock and murder dot com. And subscribe to the jokin node podcast today. It's also salable on apple podcasts Spotify, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts, go and find it. Right. Oh, hello? Let's say spur joining us and welcome to the jock. Edward podcast delivering comic book and superhero TV and movie news reviews and whatever we choose. My name is Erin. My name's Anthony used the jock. He's the nerd and joining us is a guy who sings the song of ice and fire whenever eat spicy Indian food. Of course, it's rugs, the floppy what's up boy? Oh boy. They made me laugh. I like that intro. I like. It made me smile. Fem- on topic listener. We bring you an extra episode this week because, you know, only the biggest show in the world, just aired the probably the most anticipated television series finales in TV history. Of course, it's I'm talking about the big bang theory. Finally ended. Dumpsite. Recently. Yeah. That just ended also after thirteen years, and I'm getting paid a million fucking dollars. An episode never watched it. I've caught up watch the few seasons in house like. It's a sitcom. Yes. Fine. Let's good. You're seeing them all exactly where we. About the review the big bang theory finale. We are here to review the series. Finale game of thrones? Let's get to it. All the hard. Just the phone emergency game of thrones. This is the bonus emergency extra this week far subscribers listeners. That's why you got to subscribe, you're getting three this week because he got this one. Yup. Spin off, and we will do. We'll get back to the news. And for the last time hair Vladimir Fertig otherwise as the Nike and the parts. Hey, buddy? How about you what's up food? The night of game of thrones here. Now, sit back, relax and the injured joke. Game of thrones. He's an eight episode six enjoyed last season because this would be one of the best ever. Is it is it, we will decide I don't mean to play Anthony on the spot here. But could you do a little night king doing the show here? This is that Amir for your night, king. And you're listening to the joke in their podcasts. Now sit back relax inn enjoyed the best season ever. That's really amazing. Wondering what he sounds like. That's what the giants on. Like if he was that. I it sounds like him. Yes. Good parent, Anthony mutant ability. Yes, here's your spoiler alert. All right. Well, we finally made it these past six weeks have been fucking bonkers and very entertaining and enjoyable the season. Eight episodes, six series finale of game of thrones titled the iron throne from the Hollywood reporter this game of thrones. Finale, drew thirteen point six million viewers for its initial airing adding in the replays, early streaming rewatch is that figure climbs to nineteen point three million viewers. This only record just for game of thrones. It is a record for HBO's entire history of programming. Oh shit. So they kept breaking the record. They broke the record last week. It was like eighteen point four and they broke that record. You got a really awesome raining, almost imagine that twenty million people. I wonder how many of them signed his petition. To redo it onto a updates on the petition. Some I don't even want it was up to a million. It's probably more now. I don't even wanna look it up because it's just dumb. But look, let's just get into series finale with a quick opening thoughts. Basically recap John kills dinars drill destroys the iron throne, and brand is now the ruler west rose. Shit shit any outcome Evans. Tell me in your opinion. Where did this episode land between this fucking awesome? Yeah. That's really good or the internet, which is this. Where did it land in that spectrum for you? I'd say right in the middle. Yeah. I've been a big proponent of let's just see how this all plays out. I let's see it all plays out. I was completely fine with last week's episode. And for the most part, other than the winner fell though the the battle at winter. I've been okay with everything really I can safely say, now that I feel like the season was rushed. Yeah, I definitely think eight to ten episodes. I think ten episodes would have been ideal for this. There is a feeling of. Them just running through things really quickly, everything on on paper for me. Make sense your brand. If you wanna make a king, that someone that's fair in all knowing and dot partial, anyone brand is the perfect choice. Yeah. But we why if brand was a perfect choice. Why did they make him the most boring care seasons? Or yes, blurring king. We can find. So that didn't make sense. They needed someone that came with a chair 'cause they were going to destroy the flea. True. Push them around, anyway, I can get into the details in a little bit later, but, you know, Danny's death and all that it definitely felt rush. It's all the right stuff on paper. It just all felt a little rushed. Can I say one thing, though? Yeah, if you take all of the actual screen time, it is ten episodes worth of screen time, is it because of the, the Runtime all of the episodes are like an hour in the last three run hour and a half. Yeah. But that there may be short fifteen minutes, so that fifteen minutes that we're not getting into ten hours say nine hours. I think it's like nine hours. Oh, wow. It's close, so wow, it's interesting. It was rushed whether it be ten or maybe they needed ten last season ten this season. Who knows? And maybe they needed ten with them being an hour and a half even. Yeah, but they needed more time in my opinion overall. Not the grand slam home run that we were all expecting in my, but the internet just need to stop the. One of the greatest series I've ever seen. The still amazing television, frankly. If I would have been all of this, and not call it up, and then watch this one week to week. I almost one hundred percent. Sure, I would have enjoyed the season just as much as other seasons. I do think the week to week outrage kind of affected my viewing this. Yeah, I started being like questioning if I like things in wanting to like defend the show, which is not a it was a weird position. So overall, it was okay. And I'm interested to see where you guys think because I didn't listen to your review, because I didn't want to taint what I was gonna say, I take rug show. What's your tape now opening thoughts on the scale of disappointing to satisfying? Well, Where'd you end up after this is over? I am okay with how it ended. I don't love it. I think that it is the weakest season of all the seasons, of course, I think that the writing was a little bit dubious in trying to like. Out of focus. They kinda like dropped a bunch of stuff that they they develop a drop. It's like they do all this stuff, and then they just kinda like forget about it. Smells, a little bit of loss, which got me were. Yeah. A so I there's tinges of that, but I am not going to sign a petition though. I am not going to ask them three D wit. I'm like, okay, this is what they wanted to do. I don't really agree with it. I think I probably in my mind have a way better outcome of the season that that could happen. But, you know, everybody thinks that in their minds special in that thinking, but there's some people who were on board with it in like it. So it split down the middle between the, the, the fandom. And that's how I am a little bit. I'm split down the middle with it. I think you see that this show is, is the pinnacle of TV it really is. I mean even though had one bad season. It had seven great ones. For breaking bad is the other like shining star of like perfect television. It only have like how many five consistent. Yeah. And they had more episodes. I think overall probably. So it's kinda like. I'm kind of like in the middle. I'm like, it's man to me. It's like you know, they I feel like I wanted it to be outstanding because the show is outstanding at times, there's times, where I was watching game of thrones house, like there, there can't be it said this to you guys. There is no better TV, ever made what's been on game of thrones. Absolutely. So I. I really had high expectations not because of some bullshit that I had in my mind, just what they've previously done. I was like, I want them to reach that same level, and it was kind of below that level this season on this, this many reasons that you could point to, I would agree. It didn't hit their previous peaks which. Yeah, it's disappointing but it's not it doesn't ruin the show now. And so by opening exactly that it's lie. Echo the same thing. I'm both mildly satisfied, and mildly disappointed. You know, I, I appreciate a conclusive ending of character arcs, a definitive kinda finish. It wasn't a non ending like the sopranos it just frustrating. We were given the fucking cliff notes to the end of the story by Bennie off and Weiss. Because the, the story was there the storytelling got lacking in this last season, but. Still, again I, I was really happy to watch this week to week to, to experience this live, shutout Taran Neil, by the way, who probably caught up at the last possible moment, took seven weeks, while this season, airing to binge all of it, and watch the valley live. I wonder what that's like that's gotta be crazy. Hit a better time in because the while it was entertain wants these game of thrones reactions, kind of like fucking ruins the show for you, because you can't just you know, you have to take a side which. Half Gannon minded me of the matrix revolutions after I saw that movie. I was like, okay, and then after a few weeks of hearing people talking about third, the hate that movie. Yeah. And then I got just that was, I think, my the first time in phantom of, of movie going rows. I wish there was a different movie that I saw. I mean, I remember that too, and I kind of agree. Like I really love those trilogies. But then, when you think about the last one, and I, I agree with, I haven't I didn't see matrix revolutions. But I do agree with that being the case for this, it, definitely like almost it didn't ruin my phantom for the show. But it made me really sour on just like this whole just the week that the instant reaction to watching one episode. We live in now that I didn't like the fact that it was just so like outrage over every episode they created this problem. Yes. Number one, they waited so long between seasons end station. So. Now, you had what you had is like, everybody theories two years of. Yes. Well coming up with their own shit and figuring out how it should end in there. And then they truncated it got. Then they leave coffee cups and water bottles in the fucking. Okay. I mean, those things are funny. But at the end of the day, if it is funny, okay. So it's funny to point, those day, if you're the the oh, looking for those things. I don't want to discuss the game with because they were just looking for stuff to find a way you could justify the okay the shows gotten shitty and this is my, my a and Bs. Luxy. They left this. I was seeing social media posts where it was like they circle the water like, do they even care? Okay. They made a mistake. But this is not this isn't indicative of their effort, put into the show, right? I don't think they intentionally they broke their backs. Trying to fill side from the story telling fucking the performances the costumes, the set design the direction the top of the music topnotch throughout the all eight season. Some of the best, you'll see let me, let me point out, one cinematic shot. I mean, the shot of Danny. Yeah. She lands. And then the dragon wing spark up behind all fucking beautiful and will be in your brain for the rest of your life. One of the best shots in the show's history, let's just get into let's get into that. So it's starting with the opening credits because they did change it. They changed it again this time when you fly through winter window. It's all broken. Okay. Not only that the, the very beginning that Astro lab when they highlight the stuff that's on the lab. I think the very first thing they showed was Danny destroying king's landing on the medal. And then at the end kids landings busted. But when you get to where you get to the throne above it behind it, there's usually a window with a circle with, like the Lancaster Syjuco in the circle this time the window was there, the circle was there in the circle was empty, right? There was nothing in there. I was like, oh, that's interesting. So, you know, it starts right where we left off after the bells and aria not that she's, she hung came back. I don't know what the point of that horse was there was no points, but she's just. She's just to give you just cut. I think for that one there. They people read into that, that she left the came back. She left on the white horse people death. It wasn't. It was nothing. Yeah. And it starts, you know, yeah, one of the more there's some very agree GIS stuff that we get into that. You have John stumbling on the fact that the sullied are killing the Lancaster prisoner soldiers, and he's not happy moment. Look, hoping for John snow grey worm shared out for a second and John's like I'm gonna go talk to management. I agree with these policies, and then emotional hor amazingly emotional performance by Peter English, as Tyrian goes down, and picks up the rubble and sees his twin sister, brother his siblings bodies there. I thought that was very. I mean I was really emotional. But people on the internet pointed out had been standing just a few feet to the left, they'd still be alive. So whatever this is what does these things up in my head. Why do I have to see things pick out these plot holes and then you get to this speech, which is very much like a dictator speech if you think about it? You know, she, she's a as villain. She at as the villain. She's become. She is correct in her own mind. Yeah. Everything she thinks she's doing is right. And she even says the war's over, we are going to free the rest of the planet had you're like holy fuck. And then I love -tarian walking up to her, and that whole conversation where she's like you, freed your brother and he's like you slaughtered a city and then just takes out his hand pin handed, and throws it on the steps much like what many people are doing with their subscriptions right now Bucky with this? With this shit, and she puts them under arrest and then kill them. She doesn't kill him right there. I have expected her to. When she mad in do mad crazy thing that's very everybody lived and not says level headed I shouldn't kill him there. Anyway, I get to the first part of Tyrian convincing people really easily to do things. He does that a lot this episode. John goes to visit here teary-eyed is like luck you will always do the right thing. Protect the people who is the greatest threat to the people. Now he's like she got killed me. She's gonna kill you unless you take out first and he's not going to do it. We'll John actually had a little bit of conflict. He was trying to almost justify. Yes, her position. Yeah. In his own mind, which. I mean I kind of understood it. But then at the end of the day is like, John, you know, better. Yeah. You really know better so that one was a little strange, but I enjoyed their time station dialogue. Right. It only when he mentions the sisters, Don actually all Shiite to break down. They're not gonna bend any. Eddie is the death of love and. A great call backs to earlier episodes. And so then John, let me go. Let me go talk to. And I love that, that scene where drug is they're under the snow auto air. That was let me smell you. Yeah. He's like here. Okay. This is snow. Right. What do you guys think this is an Ashwani NAR know it's fucking snow? Tell kids still be ash. It's white. It's piling up. Winter has come. I think it's Ashman FOX two. I'm like it's gotta be snow. Now, how's this the fucking? How did it build up so much? It looks like snow anyways, and weird thing to be caught up with I tell either. I'm pretty sure it was asked, but neither here nor there. Yes. So then he doesn't really change anything. Yeah. It's just a little little nitpicky thing he finally gets the Daime. And this is an amazing conversation, where Dan Dinares is there? And she doesn't even get to sit on throne. She's just touching. It looking at it finally here. She I mean, this is the point where you see her side, which is she definitely thinks she's in the right. Yeah. And that she's a liberator and this was the way to liberate. Because John rolls up, what the fuck that I'll tell you what her game plan was. Yeah. Is that she in? She's like, okay, listen. I gotta rule by fear. So if I could take all of these people out, no one's going to not bend any because they'll take fucking crazy. Yeah. All right. I don't think she was crazy. I just think she did a crazy thing, though. She could easily MO the rest of people down. I think in her mind, she says, I'm gonna kill this whole city, the settle have to. So I don't have to kill the other cities. Sure. So they'll just bend the knee. Yeah. Because I, I was at first I was going to disagree with you. But once you said, she killed the city, so she doesn't have to do it with other cities than I'm like, okay, I'll come around, and if she would have said that, but t doesn't really say that, really, well, it goes back to the line from the other episode about mercy in how we are giving mercy to future generations by killing all these people now. Yeah, I mean I, I looked at it as she decided that these people were ever gonna follow her. So she had to kill them because she she disagreed with the fact that they didn't rebel against this Lancaster's once they knew she was there, right? So then she killed these people, and she's going to go out and. In make give mercy everyone else almost like. Yeah. In her mind. She's again, the hero of her own story. So she's going to go out and be that benevolent ruler that she thinks she is. I also don't think she's done fucking Kilim pal. She's not done killing people always gonna have that rage of, like, oh, like, you didn't bend the neat like she is, she's the type of person where she's always the hero in her story. So she's if, if you legitimately think you're fighting on the side of good. Then anyone that crosses you automatically evil which is a self delusional. Megalomaniac dictator style leadership. Right. Right. Well, we're talking about this, like okay that this is what the writers want you to believe, now that she made this turn the fact that it's unclear means it was a little shoddy. We're like we're like writing it better than they did a little bit. Yeah. Just talking about your subtext. Yeah. We're like, okay. She has a plan. She knows that if she. Here's the shit out of everybody. They'll all fall in line, and then she could actually do what she intended to do. And she doesn't explain that. Because the writers, she's crazy dad's crazy, and that I wished would have happened because the last episode I was like, okay, she went full mad Queen now keeper that way. Yes, when she talks to John the beginning of that. So she gives John Kerry, look, I'm like fuck she's mad Queen. Yeah. And she talks she talks Tyrian she's full mad Queen. Yeah, but then she talks, John and she's back to being like we can do this together. Yes, it can just mean you to a Roman Ave. She becomes romantic about you. And I'm like. But you're everyone is saying that she's gonna look at you as a Saint, like a potential threat as well. Yeah. It was a little uneven there now. So anyway, she gets killed. So let me ask you this. Did you feel that John went in there already decided to kill her? Okay. John knew the right thing. Yeah. I mean so it's in that sense. It is like a good part for John because, like Jamie. Yeah, he is now forever known as a Queen slayer. Yeah. He's the queen's layer. So he is also someone that could be looked down upon as being an evil person, even though he did something noble for the realm. Yeah. I agree with that. So I like I like that. I now I need to take the sidebar rapid Danny's death. Yes. And John snow. Moment in the series so we can talk about. Yes. What happens? John snow is. The dragon comes and he doesn't kill John. I love this part earn more melts the iron throne and this colic Danny up. He's like, okay. This is the reason for all of this problems. This the dragon knows more than everybody else. He'd melt them thrown takes the narrator and goes away. And that's it. Okay. Now, let me just get into this, and I'm sorry, that I'm gonna talk for about two or three minutes. Look, let me give you this. All right. So besides the fact that there's no reason up until. She decides to kill those people for anyone to dislike, Danny MA just wrote it, they dislike her, because she came in and helped everybody at winter fell Yar even said, she saved all of us. Yeah. Y'all she was to her. Yeah. All right. They, they engineered this kind of thing where everybody hates, Danny. But there's no real reason to other than Santa just being a bitch, and making who were brothers dating. And so that's an engineer thing that's not really real. She's actually she came. And she had good intentions, the whole time, you know, John's no went there. Didn't bend any invent the knee. And then she came up and save his ass when he was looking for the NBA or whatever. So she, like, was it? She wasn't like whatever in being like evil person, they just branded her with that. And then they stuck with it. Okay. Then the second thing that they did was they, they made this thing where if anybody filings out that John snow is really the true king. No one ever. One's gonna rally to him and, and, and and want him to be king. All right. So this is the postmortem. So like VERA sends out all of these birds with messages to everyone. Here knows everybody knows sound knows that he's the rightful king. So the words spreading out like wildfire all over the kingdoms that John is the true king does anybody come even after the dragon goes away to go and proclaim jam the king and fight off the unsullied? Nobody shows up, nobody rolls up like that would have been that. I think that was what I was thinking was going to happen. I'm like, we'll various alerted everybody. John kills the nearest the dragons gone. All that's left is the unsullied standing in the way they could come in and go, we want John snow to be king, and that doesn't happen. Nobody even pipes up until this little meeting that they have where they kind of just sit around like, what are we going to do next and interior? Like that whole thing that, that whole thing that they were were discussing. And him. We're discussing that. Oh, everyone's gonna want Johnson, though to became what he did that. There's nothing that so basically that whole threat that they Bill Johnson up to be to deniro's was actually nothing. So they sounds does mention that. There's north men guards outside, and they, they wanted John and that's the reason he had to make that compromise. But to your point runs, you're absolutely right. Kind of did it matter. And all that he was actually gone tug area. Didn't know. Matter at all that's the biggest problem with the finale. The point of it not mattering. Is that it doesn't matter? I think I agree with rugs is point in that. And I didn't think about it like that, but they did just kind of drop it. Yeah. They have had has early handled it by doing this what they did was. They had John when he was talking to Tyrian, he basically, I'm paraphrasing. But he basically says just because my last name is this. Does it doesn't mean it's I'm who I am right? Our house named house names, right? It gets shouldn't it shouldn't define our fate. Yeah. So in a roundabout way by the I'm I agree with you rugs that they dropped it John's snow's choice to what everybody else thinks I know what I'm saying is, whether he's gone target area and John snow or John stark that never mattered to him. What mattered to him was just doing the right thing. And that's true to his character. That I'm just debating that this whole idea this whole thing this whole the whole conflict between the nearest and John is engineered, it's not real, because it never ever manifest into anything. It's a completely empty. It's a straw man argument, I'll ever think about who kind of engineered this, and you kinda see brand setting this up to, to protect the star kids and the stark legacy by putting all these pieces in the place and getting them to fight the night, king, and getting our to and decimating those troops, everything. The Starks win that starts the winters. We at the end. And if brain was was putting all these these, these test pieces in motion, rugs, makes a good point. I didn't even realize really that the distrupt that, but they did the various stuff. I thought that would have let it didn't lead to anything. Now the oil. The only allusion they made to it. Is that the north likes Johnson, which, which didn't when we knew that before he was eight? About that. And, and that makes sense that the north would be like if you kill him we will kill you. So they engineered these things the genera that everybody hates the Narus though. She did heroic things and helped everybody to be alive. Yeah. And so that hate is like completely fabricated. There's I'll just say there is a little hate because she is the daughter of the mad king. Right. So there's some of that Warriner she doesn't really know the people there she doesn't want to, like understand. You can have Lancaster's your Queen. Yeah. What about? I don't know. Dice, aren't you kind of the same, you know? Yeah. No one's better. I don't know. I think that those things were engineered by writers. And so when you do something that's true to the actual characters. Yes or doesn't have any impact or does even ring. True. And you drop it. Yeah. It's, it's hollow. And that's where I feel about this season. It's hollow, it's everything's like like they engineered all these things they've engineered aria to have powers like she can become anybody. They never use it to see. I wish fucking change the face did something they have brand who can do things and work into things ever use air anything, and he basically is a lump of shit this whole ends up being king. So it's like there is a hollowness to what's going on. But it's been frustrating that these character moments, don't feel earned because they've been just cutting to these things, and not letting it, organically, develop just talk about the meaning of all their let's get to that. So after. So did. But Danny's death was at satisfying for everybody. I it happened as it should have. Yeah. I mean it was very simplified and very easy and quickly done. He just like snap decision. Next thing he does. Yeah. Like he went from fighting for her to like immediately killing her on the same day. Didn't even. Conversation with, like it just seems like Tyrian talks to you. We just do what he says. So then Tyrian shows up at this meeting. Yeah. They've they push forward in time. Well, the so when he killed her for me, it kind of did catch me off guard because when they started making out initially, I was like a fuck. He's going back to her really doing this, then you hear shink and I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, I see what's going on. And what a nice, maybe if she said something, but I, I think a lot of the reason the reason you brought up their good points. I also think that they didn't really dive enough into their romance enough for you to be like, man. John is really conflicted here with on never got the sense that he truly loved generis Reich, he loved egregious. Head a lot better chemistry. Yes. These people had no chemistry really surprised they're both might act season. Seven they were okay together. Cheering when they were hooking up they, but they had just met, like they really have been together that long. Like literally just there together, I think it was more the fact that I accept that they both. Except that they both saw each other. And we're like that's a fucking good person. I'm gonna fight for them. Yeah. It was hard for me to accept the conflict after that, though, he says he loved her, you know, just like Tyrians I loved her with all my heart also by that's another. That's another thing that I don't get about this characterization of Danny, because why would Danny be attracted to such a good in good hearted person, right? She was so crazy in so evil. Like everybody's painting her to be. She needs another calls Rogo that's her. That's her speed. Or even somebody more ruthless in, you know, like any any of these other cares, what a hearing. A hearing him marine, she'll have to guard marine mount. All right. So we get to the okay, so. So they killed judge John kills Danny boom cut to black and we do get a title onto week jump maybe. Yes, you weeks and that was kind of anticipation time Jim. But I thought it would have been great if at times it happened with Danny on the throne still. And then you see what happens with her room. She's dead moving on. John and Terry. Still imprisoned their beards are growing long and there's another meeting, they had in season, seven when they brought him the white walkers with the council small council of west rose, and again, tearing and IMP a land Stor a prisoner. Just convinces everyone, listen eight seasons. They've been trying to figure out who's gonna get the throne. They figure it out and five fucking minutes. Oh, yeah. Each other warring over these things there, the last of the surviving people. They have all the power and the tunes like we're not gonna have. Let's figure out who's gonna be the king, and everybody's like all right. You pick. I do. Tully standing up and then sit down now. I agree. I mean. Tyrian does give speech. He's craving that a good speech. I'm like, by the end of that. I'm going brand the broken. That's about it. I'm like, why do they even bring Tyrian out? What what's reason does? He have to be out there to tell them who to became which became, but, but why what is he, he was terrible hand of the king handed Queen. He was instrumental in this happening. He he quits. He betrayed his Queen has the Lancasters are dead. Why bring him back out? Yeah. He made one good decision in two seasons. Right. Everything's done back and save this sister, tried to save his worked. I mean the only the only reason that they brought him back out. So that brand can go, he's made a lifetime mistakes. Lifetime mistakes. He's now going to fix them as king as the hand, and he's like this, how going to repay I do love couple of the great moments like when Sam suggests democracy and everyone just laughs at him. Yeah. That, that 'cause I thought they were going to say they were going to do the full democracy thing. Yeah. That was a nice little subvert. We're not doing that. Do you want to give the horse of? Arguments. Also breastfeeding boy is now grown up in heartthrob now. Here in Lord. Robin Aaron is like he's he's deaf. That Hoti still looks like a little fucking schmuck. He's, he's Jonas like about Bartok abyss. He does look like Brunson. Pinch show Jonas brother is start. They Sophie Turner married. Jonas brother in Vegas with the Elvis impersonator officiating like oh on the spur of a drop of a hat. Yarwood be on her side new it. She's still team amid. It would be cool to have like a female person on the throne. Yeah. You know, always been men and they something different. Like all right now, we have a crepe align thrown. I did see a funny, Mon the Mesa. They were like so the, the best thing that come a was electing kid with brain damage. Also, like by the way, his dictum work, but that is kind of genius. Tyrians argument is have kids good. We've seen how that works out from now on a king will be chosen, everything Tyrian says. He brand would be like he's on. He's unbiased he won't have kids. So you know there there's no lineage. There's no stupid lineage now on the throne. Yeah. He's all knowing all seeing. He's, I mean he's a good candidate to be on the throne, and he breaks the wheel so to speak. It just doesn't make sense. The Tyrian would be out there with his opinion. What, what did you guys think of Sansa wanting to remain independent and brand kind of letting her, and she was green in the north in no one else was like, hey, I wanna do that, too. There's no six kingdoms that he's ruling not I don't want to be rolled by you brand like that. Potiskum Brel sister. She can do what you I I mean it's perfect for the north. The north is always wanted to sin dependent? It makes sense. Yeah. Sanga is a good ark for her to be strong state. Stay true. To wanting to be the ruler of the north. Do agree everyone else being like okay. Well, you still want to be agreeable. Although, like, okay, no more kings. By birth. All right. I guess my kids not going to be king sucks. But I understand the unsullied and the death Raqi who are staunch team Danny. They will do all of a sudden, like okay this kid in new chair with wheels kick. Now we've follow. Okay. Like fuck off. Now, we're gonna we're gonna go well, the unsullied went to Naf which where Sunday was from to free them. I guess what the death Raqi are doing. I don't know what to do. The unsullied thing. It was. I mean, it was a bit of a compromise. I know that I the Ray, I didn't terp it. Is that Danny's gone? Yeah. They don't really have a ruler now. So they're kinda like just flying by the pants and they're not really in their homeland. So they're like, they're, they're still they're not like the doth Raqi, whether mindless killers, like this is an Orlando. But we hate this motherfucker, let's come up with amicable solution to fight wards gave him that offer. Maybe the rocky took their he's like you could take this land goal of up there. Whatever you want payments. He's like we just. Yeah. Yeah. They wanna fight. I'm the death rocky like the thing Tyrian says, is that that brands got the best story. Yes. Does he realize but that's the area's got the best story? So I'll say where she ended up. I think aria has probably one of the most satisfying story arcs throughout the whole show, and, where it ends up her wanting to explore west of would have. Have at least a loon into that in one episode where he says, yeah, maybe one day, I'll go around does she early on. She goes she asked about west of west coast. The second season why I disagree. I don't think arc is fine. I don't think it's the best because I don't I didn't get this explore her explorer, vibe, I'm know all of a sudden, I liked that she turned in like is not a one mind one track killer. Yeah. I didn't get the vibe that she wanted to know explore west of west. Become you think she becomes Christopher Columbus aria covers America does, she end up bringing smallpox the world. She kind of looks like a boy. I kind of looks like a boy maybe she is really just Christopher Columbus. Columbus was her name. I wanted to sail off with her into her own spinoff show, where she has all these adventures exploring west of west rose that making up or whatever that'd been great Santa is Queen of the north and the decision with John, I kind of understand this, you know, teary and explains if we give to the unsullied, which is what they wanted to kill him because he killed their Queen fans going to be a war. If we give to the north man, there's gonna be a war. You are going back to the Nightwatch, and he said, exactly what I thought there still a nice fucking watch. They watch what do they want? Connects credit explain that if so I think brand knows there is no night's watch. It was his back doorway of going out here and live your life. Yes. I think that was a little bit of a ruse last shot is great because you see him go pass the wall. You see him head north and you see one little blade of grass stick it up suggesting that spring and summer is coming any kind of ends where he starts when it's also poetic because John is never given a fuck. I mean he cares about his family. But he's never let his house names define him. And he can finally go somewhere where his house name would not define feels more himself in that environment with the people. That's, that's always what he wanted and full circle the very first shot of the show is them going into the haunted forest on the wall, and the very last shot in the show is John going them going into that same for us, and we don't talk about what's next. What do you wanna go? We'll, there's two other things Brienne writing in the book about the Jamie in these small council meeting, which, I like I like Rianne finishing his, his story. I wish you would have written in there that she was that, that he that he knighted her. Yes, she should be in the book the first female night. Maybe she's like a now Bryanne I'm brianna are tart the first female night of what some of the. Yeah. Yeah. It was like it was it was going, her ending is that she's writing the story for another, man. This is why men women should be writing the show or this is why men to be writing women's roles shows man's blaming four Jamie right back to the sea like that, honoring this guy that's that, you know, they had a great relationship with. And so, because in the book ends with him being the ki the king slayer, and she's trying to redeem his reputation and, and put it in history. I like that. I did like that. Would've put a line about herself. All right. Her story. Yeah. She's been like and he popped by cherry thing. She gets like she's now, the, the commander of the nights the king's guards, a great moment to the new small console where just like you said, Bryanne is the commander of the king's guard same. Well is now the grand Meister when he was studying for makes a lot of sense. He's got the Meister. Just like God Meister, God. Davos master ships and Braun is master coin wants to Bill brothels. I find it hard to believe that he fucking Tyrian gave him high garden, Bryan. Bryan got a sweet deal all this. He covered both ends Bron made out like a bandit bandit, I, I liked all the picks Braun especially him in Tyrian, or now at the same like they're not it, it comes full circle for them. They're about now looking at each other as equals. All these fucking highfalutin dudes like Donald is do a pirate basically very blue collar. You kinda got a great as they pull back the conversation that just like the mundane parts of rebuilding an empire out of ashes there is only one. There's only one thing sorry, that I was like a little confused with its the book. Now the book I. Well the book was just kind of cheesy of it. Yeah. Put that in their brand goes, we still need a master of war, yet, whispers, the master warm, makes sense. Only one of those. Yeah. Why do they need a master whisper brand everything? Does he know the future I ever interpreted? I Isla there's a lot of people go on that he knows the future. I don't think he knows the future. I think he just knew at that moment that they were going to decide on their next king, and he had to be there. This is my prediction of every single king's counsel. Yeah. Is like you have Tyrian going, we need to do this. There's people starving in, in Davos, or whatever in Bravo's. He just goes, everything is, as it should be. That's the end of the main branch said this whole goes. I was supposed to do this the whole time. Like everything's going. Here. Even if the meaning they're like, hey, we're going to do this, this and brands like I'm gonna walk off dragging because do whatever you want. Really? Not making any decisions. He lets them do it. From the office. Now he doesn't. He's a strong cabinet that's should be, you know, you delegate power and they care of everything. It's just if I want just real quick on brand. It's his his character head a lot of potential once they. And they really just didn't do anything of it. The, the episode where he will the winner fell one where he warns the ravens like what, what? Let's. What are we doing? And if he was supposed to, I really believe Gioja are Martin wants him intended for him to be king. 'cause there's some reading some of the cliff notes from the books he's an important character in the books, and it would make sense. The kid that gets pushed out of the yeah, the, the well, or whatever the fuck the in the first episode power ends up being the king. That's great king way back then. But, but one just one thing, why take a season off with brand that if he's going to be the important. Yeah. Yeah. The thing about brand that really disturbs me is that he's not a person now. He's he doesn't have anything. He's an exposition device. He's not really a person. He doesn't really exist. He just doesn't even talk to people are deal with people. He just kind of like a thing. Yeah. That's true. And he's so it's like you go from wanting to root for a good person to have the throne. And you're like, well, this guy's impartial. Yeah. Because he's not really a person. He's nothing. He's he doesn't have any. People skills he doesn't really know anything about, right? He seems a little more adjusted but those things because more than watching them. Yeah. How about the fact that the Vegas and the bookies had it right? The whole fucking time with brand as the top pick. Get the throne somebody wants some fucking money that way, a lot of the stuff was really subverted like aria killing serves that it didn't happen. Yeah. Aria then everyone's like, oh, are you going to kill the anything didn't have an happen? John gonna kill the night king that didn't happen brand being the night, king that didn't happen. King being anything of consequence that happen. A lot of stuff that, you know. Lot riding on. It gets into loss territory because lost this, and it was annoying. They're like, oh, there's a fucking polar bear on that means nothing. What does the smog monster? That's bullshit. And it's very dangerous that this show, which has been beloved by all for many years, heads into this territory as it tries to nail the ending who is the prince that was promised. That's was the prophecy true, who was zora's. Rain. What about the greed is, John was the prison was about it? Story that gets told the search as a little girl. Oh. A child small, hands are going to choke her right. They were like saying that Tyrian was gonna kill her Tyrian, or brother, brother. I mean, there's a lot of like weird things that they, they teased as being these big overarching story that didn't get I love John gets reunited with ghost, and they get to hang out. And he got to Pat him. They had enough that too. The engineered that moment they, they like have him snub, the, the fucking wolf. No apparent reason just up later. And then the most surprising thing Anthony. I don't notice that the very end fucking game of thrones. Steve has words. Two it was all about how they can't wait to write Star Wars. Yeah. I think I've heard you. Yes. Friend Irwin was like I really think Disney was just like, hey, you gotta get started on the Star Wars stuff ace at think the biggest most egregious thing is them turning down the offer for ten episodes sees age now. Let's just talk about kind of the whole thing overall there. There was no way they were going to satisfy everyone absolutely not. I want to know they could've they could've they could gain on some of the things they set up. They could have done better for sure. Do you think they stuck the landing? No. We all agreed that it was MAC. I think but I think that means they barely kind of stuck the landing. I think they landed. They landed. Yes, I don't I don't think this was the best land. I, I don't think it's still landing means like you land with both feet. No movement. They lead it in the. Wasn't it wasn't a zero either where their like filing fall on their face? They didn't. Yeah. But it wasn't a ten point landing where they move. Once they land loss was a bad landing decks. Huge one of those some people out there saying loss had a better ending this. I do not agree. That is completely. No. It was good up until the very last season. Yeah. Like loss was bad like for a long time, and we just kept on hoping it was going to get better, and it never did so couple of questions for you guys. Did they actually break the wheel like they were discussing what do you call the wheel? Well, according to the wheel was this guy's on top. The spokes turn now the next ruler is on top. They rulers on top. Now brain is just the next guy in the wheel. Abelson wheels broken because the, the wheel meant like the key come in, and you get little lineage, and you come in, and you conquer, and then your lineage is now the ruling family, however many aides, or they decided that a retirement, we'll break, let's have this meeting every time we needed side. What happens when somebody wants to just come in with? Everybody has to automats step in. They got they got to protect the kid. They gotta step in. I mean it's pretty haphazard. They come up with us is that it doesn't it's, it's weird that everyone disagrees right off the bat. Yes. Very quickly, like if they said like, all right. Who's going to be king? It would be argument for weeks and then fucking go Addy fighting what would have been nice but they don't have time for that. Now. They didn't have time. Oh, time. So. Surprised to that? Like you would have thought Sansa would have been like, John. John should be the king. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like she the one that was like, well he should be. I'm going to spread this rumor. Yeah. Yeah. What did that tell at this point, the, you know, the unsullied the threat are have them has a prisoner? The and sully do I so they wouldn't unsullied wouldn't have greet to him being king. John snow shoulda died, maybe mass, this particular story work. Yeah. He should have died instead of just being banned. The unsullied would be cool, if they would have had a trial by combat. Yeah. And then Ray were actually killed him. And then, then this would work because they then they'd have no other choice. They wouldn't have the king that was promised to them that they heard about. And then they would have to come up with something else, but since he's alive, there should have been all out war. Yeah. Where's, where's all the people chanting that he's the rightful heir? Where's Yam John people all emails because it doesn't matter to John snow, bows off into the Wild Wings at doesn't mean anything, and then it would make more sense that brand is came because there's no other alternative. So it's just. Why John go north like I mean, we said he those are his people, he never wanted any of this. I think he just wants to go away. And I don't know. I don't know. I think I just think it's very weird that in order to be king, or a leader, you have to never have kids. So that's you know so like if you're going to be the king of the six kingdoms you have to make this. We're gonna fucking take that shit seriously. Like there's no birth control. You can't fuck anybody. They have to was a there was something about. Yeah. All the night, king or not the Nike in the night's watch now they're talking about John can't have children on kenzees the Nightwatch now. Well he can. But he can't. That's one of the reasons they had brain because you can't have kids. Well. They were what they were saying was people what about his kids, and they're like, he can't have any like they were saying, well, what about after him, and they were just saying matter of factly. Well, he can't have kids Vick. Don't work guy after him. What if you want kids to be they, they just they don't they got? It's gotta be unanimous decision now. All right. It's not just passed on like it's been in the past, you know, there's a lot of great meta lines like the lives of dialogue that were almost like the writers talking about the reaction to the show. One of them to me when theory, and Terry and tells John asked me, again, in ten years when he asks Killington ARIS was right. I kind of feel like you can say the same thing about this show this final season. Do you guys think the season these last episodes will hurt the legacy of this show in ten years? No, I mean it in, in a way will because it's gonna have that stench on it. They're like you're not gonna forget this, like horrible feedback. I mean we're talking about like Waterworld and how receive over viewed it. So like the reception of what when it comes out still stays with it. No matter what, like, even with you talk about lost, eat all the still think about how shitty it ended dissuade people from watching it. You don't see, like I just watched lost for the first time, you know, if you watch like I don't think it'll hurt that much. Also people still be, you know, discovering, the show. I think that it's a shame if you don't check it out, because it is great. And so many ways it's for the end. So. And the end isn't terrible just so Anthony doesn't hurt the legacy for me. It doesn't but I think it will be remembered as this great show that didn't stick the landing. I, I think the way these last. Three four episodes have been received. Yeah. I it's almost that stench that it's been been created on social media. I think will be remembered. Do you think is warranted? Though. See, I don't a live. But not as much as it's been like it's still the one of the best. I think it's a bit worn out of proportion. But I'm also and I've been defending the show every week. But I, I agree now by the end of this, that, like just because, you know, the show has been great, and it's been an, it's tough to write these things, and they've made great television, it's not above criticism necessary. And I think by the end of this, I've come around on the fact that the show was rushed. Yeah. I mean I think that, that's a honest observation. I think I think that if you blindly aren't apologised for this. You're, you're kinda like creating your own version of, of what's good in what in, in what good writing is in what a good show is. There's a whole is a whole group of people that think that you shouldn't criticize any kind of our Atta hold Twitter battle with, with the guy, you should whenever somebody create something, you should just not criticize it. And something called constructive criticism out and art school. What I what I what I disagree with is people petitioning to change it. Yes, that's dumb. Like, you know, you don't just get what you want with the writers want in the, the writers, wanna make the show suck. It sucks. Okay. Deal with it. Yeah. Right. It's not what you want. This is the story. There were always going to I'm going to, like take whatever they did, and go Kate, that's part of the experience this show, and would it be cool to have been satisfied in every way up. It doesn't impossibility now what's the more satisfying? Finales for you guys Jones or ventures. Also agree, I came sticks to landing a little bit better about the end it gives you a there. There's gives you enough. It doesn't give you everything. Yeah, there's quite a few things that they don't give you but gives you a lot this stuff that they gives you. So alternate -ly satisfying that you're willing to overlook a plethora of problems. And this like you said, the game of thrones guys could've rewarded people who have been watching since the beginning with a little more care, little, most t low more tact. But let me this. I just read this really interesting article on scientific American and the guy his reasoning why people are hating game of thrones now. And he basically says the beginning seasons that had source material game of thrones was a sociological story, which is really hard to do. You know, it, it, it did things that no other show did, which is you start with these characters you get to trust these characters, and these characters are. Got a move the show forward except this show. They just fucking kill the characters now. You think are going to be the main pieces, and it, doesn't it doesn't in the first season, when that stark it doesn't again in the third season, rob stark, why does it work? Well, because you ask yourself with these sociological situations, it's not the independent personalities if you putting yourself in every character's point of view and saying, what would I do? You know what would I do? I was faced with this decision. Now, when they ran out a book this guy says, when. Watson penny off and try to end it. They took the Hollywood path where it turns into more of a psychological story, and not a sociological story, George gave him an outline. And basically, the story was there. The storytelling was not there because they end up going Hollywood teach us checking off boxes doing this doing this showing this. No nuance. No subtlety and part of it is because they didn't have enough time. The part of it is baby. They weren't as good writers as Georgia Martin is with his original material, I think that would happen is that when the first began the show, they had a it was wasn't really a pattern. But it was basically a trope where you would as soon as a character would start to gain some kind of really advantage it about obviously, what happens in real life. Yep. You know, setbacks occur. And then you have to regroup in background way. Yeah. Yes. So what happened was a lot of the pieces got taken off the board and the other people have to compensate. Yeah. So where areas starts to become an instrumental person where she was just a little girl and she grows in the passage. I'm now you see her grow and become more of Sansa. Same thing she goes through her thing, and she becomes a formidable person. So after you've grown all these characters now they refused to kill them, and they refuse to pass it on there's no one else to pass it on lie. A lot on stunts in the last season as opposed to storytelling, have my thoughts on this. I can't really speak to the sociological and psychological aspects because I just don't don't fully understand that point. Yet, I'd have to read that article I'll put it in the show notes. It's a it was a great article. I think what for me what hooked me on the show was the fact that. For six seven seasons. The good guy doesn't always win. Yeah. The and that's true to life. And the bad guys aren't always the, the worst people in the world either. Yeah. Jamie. You know, even as evil as she has she still gives a fuck about her kids. She's, she's really just there for a kid. Another -tarian kill the fuck lotta of people to. Shades of gray with everybody. The what was worked so. Well was that you cared for characters you at first you cared for characters and then you hated them. Sometimes you hated them. And then you cared for them. He did. Unredeemable and not completely redeemed. You had all these aspects of how people would act in a wartime in how how, you know how human they are. And I think what happened is by the end. There is just some sort of rush to end this story. And they lost a lot of the, the subtle nuance in caricatures. Yeah. Just became more about the plot device. Yeah. Yeah. Became more important to hit the notes rather than to. Yeah. You care about the path to get to those notes almost see this outlined that he gives them and they just did the out like they didn't bother filling anything eight now. Well, the thing is many off in Weiss's defense. Yeah. And I read this today on the ring, or there's an article about how far they strayed from the books because the books are really fucking far like they've been having to do this without the books for a while now. Okay. But when they wrote when they put this show out for one hundred percent sure on this. But I'm pretty sure that I read that Georgia, George aren't had told them the books would be done before the show ends. Yes. That's probably. He's doing all sorts of other crazy shit ever fuck and finish the books now. Now under the impression that they would have a full outline right to, you know, to reference, and they're like fuck, you're not done yet. George yam. It was a few things that actually through a monkey wrench into this, and that was one of them that the, the guy who wrote the source material never finished it. And that there was this whole Star Wars offer on the table. And the I think that everybody involved ones just not be on the show anymore. I mean they went to move on ten years going onto long, but they should have done if I were working on the show, and I would listen and I really cared about the show how it was going to be received for the rest of the time I would have been like listen. We gotta do this, right. We gotta do it. Let's how many episodes do we really need to do it. Let's go. Let's make like thirteen episodes to really button this up. Really well legit thirteen episodes. Like they, they should have HBO give them whatever they want it. Episode so they could wrap this shit. I also think the point that I send you guys about plotters and pants. Sanders is. And I've read, I've read a lot of stuff on George Martin's, or George r r Martin's writing is that his writing does meander, like, in terms of, like just following a character and seeing where the hell it goes. So, like George didn't finish the books and his writing. He writes in a way where he can. It just goes forever. Yeah. So they didn't have really a way to like go and be like, okay, now we got, like we got end this some had to make decision and ended decide to end it. Do you think I'm wondering if George having seen the reaction if he actually adjusts and changes his ending, once he actually writes it? Hand. Now off the hook. This is the best for in terms of Georgia are Martin. I mean, the the books are now you in more anticipated than ever, right? I think everyone's going to be like, let's read these books and see what he would have done. He's going to do it the right way. And in fact, I've heard a lot of people watch the show are like I gotta read the books now I need to see what the fuck is going on. So I think he's going to sell more books and they're gonna let me ask you this question. What if in like, ten years, they game of thrones or they don't do they do a song of ice and fire the trilogy? Yeah. H movies like three hours long. Ooh trilogy. I don't see the reason why this show worked was the. The long form storytelling. I don't know. I mean, did it in three three hour movies we just by seeing the show. He just got. We just got the new path way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There there's a better way. Always, yeah. And we just saw. Yeah, you're gonna compare it to this matter what? Well, I'm glad that they cleared this path, because think about the ramifications of the show. All right. They have movie quality effects cinematic quality actors topnotch will wardrobe set design and now you have seasons were episodes or longer than an hour. Yes, they. The ground. And they're able now I think the Russo bras were talking about this as well, but they're like, why is everything confined to either two hour movie. Right. One and a half hour comedy. Or one hour TV show long different canopy, as long as it needs to be like. And I think that like Sherlock Holmes was the first thing to actually this. They did that one and a half hour episodes. Yeah. And they have three episodes, four episodes in that tells the entire story of the season works. Well, so I think that what if you would just get to our movies and you get three of them a year in that tells a the chunk of the story. Doing this hour, this deadwood movie their tests, you know, they're coming back, giving you to our being based on how good it is. I don't know if they give you more, but I'm down for trying different stuff like that. There's nothing wrong with that. I love the Sherlock model. Did you see Joe not from works something? Yeah. So HBO is already working on the game of thrones prequel. Right. The working title. I don't know if this is a fish all night long mood. Oh, blood moon in, here's a synopsis taking place, thousands of years ago before the events of game of thrones a series chronicles, the world's sent from the golden age of heroes into it's dark hours from the horrifying secrets of west Rosa's history to the true origin of the white walkers, the mysteries of the east of the stars of legend only one thing is for sure. It's not the story. We think we know ooh went. But when is that I dunno out like they needed some, we're gonna see that for a few years. Let me ask you guys this who's canceling their HBO subscription anybody's in my hand. I'm gonna keep buying because I wanna watch noble in deadwood and watchmen. I'm thinking about it, but I know a lot of people Eddie. And Seth bargain, I believe everyone is like, Yep. Click there is a documentary next Sunday about the fine making the final season on HBO. Now what I will watch. They're asked to make that they, they didn't ask for more episodes to really make it work via affects on the fucking Drago where like amazing like, yeah, we'll drogue on sorry. Children gone yet. Dragos Cal Cal. Right. But the dragon CGI like this is the best I've ever seen it, and it got better was great. And it was fucking unbelievable amazing ending. I think we can end there surely will continue to talk about. Discussed rating. The individual season eight and then the whole as as a. Yes, I go. I, I think on a scale of one to ten this series this season was about six. Okay. It was it was barely above par over going for what it set the standard that it had itself. Yeah. Yeah. I think overall the series, though is like a nine. Yeah. I mean, it would have been a perfect ten if they would've nailed it and in this season kinda just chopped it down a little bit. But numbers Anthony with rugs. I think this season was above a barely above average. So five and a half six. Well, yeah. Overall the for the series, leonine eight and a half nine nine and a half somewhere on there. I mean, say most the same scores. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm gonna say six and a half to seven four in general, not the best season of the series, but still one of the better that you have. Oh my God. Yes, I'm really I really I'm more. You know the experience. Watching it with the world was just so crazy. You felt like you're part of this fucking crazy conversation week after week. But it's also been an amazing six weeks to go through this and. It's over. It's going to be, you know who knows what's on the horizon. It could be a year from now it could be ten years from now. Yeah, but, you know, this is the last time for at least a little bit that will have this right experience with anybody. You're right. This is the last of appointment television, everybody watches at once water. It's all trending towards binging and fabricated, streaming services and things binging really ruins this type of conversation because everyone finishes at different times. You know about the whole thing at once. Yeah. Well, the, the conversation is diff- happens at different moments all at once. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This thing you know to sustain buzz the week to week is very important. Okay. Last question before we go. Okay, what's next? What's, what are we looking for me? World season three trailer was very interesting because it has Aaron Paul it looks like Bladerunner, and it looks like a whole fucking different show. He got me really? Intrigued did you see that rocks? What is world to me had so much potential. Yeah. And then, you know, unlike game of thrones the second season was like. Season is wild. It doesn't even look like the same show though. Let's see what happens. I mean, it's awesome lawyer world or something possible that it's gonna be awesome. Like I in for it. Yeah. I don't know if watchmen I will be watching watchmen. I don't know if that's going to make a splash really. It doesn't really catch my maybe there's a better. My, my, my nuts in a twist. Maybe they haven't shown us to say is it took me seven years to figure out the game of thrones was good. So. Seventy eight that he will tell us what the next show is. But I you know, who knows what the landscape of TV and. Glad is we should. That's a great. What was the show before this? I feel like Walking Dead had a lot of people going for a long time. The beginning and then they should for about seven. Before this. Yeah. Sopranos did the same thing this brought me back to the sopranos at this point twenty years old. I had the same feeling would ahead when that was odd ranchers deadly employment television, everybody at the same thing, where you're rooting for characters who aren't morally black or white either sociopath mobsters who kill people, but you fucking love them. And then so after sopranos was what whilst was lost, and then that flop. Yeah. That shit the bed breaking bad was good for how big was the wire was big that one is. It's not it's bigger now. But it's also similar thing where they killed main characters every season kind of ships to another focus. It's very brainy very heady very intricate combines the sopranos lost breaking bad Walking Dead game thrones. Yeah. Seems like the timeline, I always gonna throw up star glad. All right. Look, I saved all the housekeeping for the end of the show right here. Join our Facebook group join the conversation it's called the Jockan nerd nation. It's closed. It's exclusive is just for you listener. You can geek out shout out to Blake Raden who put up all the spoiler threads for the last six weeks in the nation. Thank you so much, so helpful, because I didn't have to do shit at just happened. Thank you. Blake, it also, if you want to support the show, get access to vote is content. Join our fan club jock, nerd dot com slash patriotic, like Jok plus where you get early episodes, photos, content an extra ARA speed with a whole bunch of extra episodes in their rugs. Work in the listener find you online. Find me on Twitter arguing with people about how game of thrones ended really read boys for a while. I've seen some of those tweets at really rug boy on put her shed, I, and I actually, you know, turn the guy around go rugs is changing hearts and minds of rugs. The fluffy making a difference shadows chocolate or dot com slash two seven five all the ways you can subscribe getting touched all the fun links. Subscribe, wherever you listen. We are now on Pandora's. Well, Spotify, apple podcast everywhere. There's media where they're Instagram metro near Twitter at chocolate or cast. And of course, share the show with the game of thrones fan friend or fellow geek, fellow jock Othello nerd, tell your friends spread the empire of stupidity and we'll take over the world. Just like the narrow only we won't burn it down. We will hug it and kiss it love it. Listening to the podcast by Davis Imran money's Anthony. He's the jock. He's a nerd PPO next. Jacob. Manifests, not as the cake in democracy.

Yam John Tyrian Danny Tyrian John snow Anthony Bill Johnson Nike us HBO James Polk giants murder Lancaster Ray John Kerry Erin Edward
Ask the Underscore II (Season 8 Preview, Part 4) | Game of Thrones

Binge Mode

1:16:40 hr | 2 years ago

Ask the Underscore II (Season 8 Preview, Part 4) | Game of Thrones

"Road is presented by Bud Light, but lighting each bureau partners for the Super Bowl to marry the medieval worlds, Bud Light in HBO recreated, one of the most epic scenes in game of thrones show history did not. See the ending of that Super Bowl spot coming being killed by the mountain is a pretty cool way to die wonder if we'll see game of thrones back in the deal again. Enjoy responsibly twenty one and up. Warning binge mode contains adult content you ever wonder what Padre pain did to get that free slang regularly. Actually, we wonder about it all the time all the time. So if that's not the kind of discourse that you're comfortable with please check out one of the other fine podcasts at the ringer podcast network. But if you are into it because honestly, why else would you be here? Stick around screaming. Explore that I think he untied the mirror knees. Not with his tongue. That's my guess. Yeah. I think he did do that. But like, I guess he just did it better. I guess. Yeah. Nobody did. Got a very agile tongue. One more warning binge Tate's spoilers. If you don't yet know why we've spent the last few days staring at long claw resting bloodily in the snow. Please proceed extreme caution. And now binge mode. That coming. Our enemy doesn't tie. Stuff. Doesn't feel. And welcome to binge road game of thrones. Proudly part of the ringer podcast network. A Rubin executive editor of the ringer dot com. What a great fucking website, y'all. Joining me today now that he's finished parsing. The use of was over in in the new game of thrones season eight poster it's ringer, senior, creative your Maistre and Isaac. Can I get? Giral? Maybe some champagne. Oh, they never should in the building. Now. Now, they're gonna regret this, buddy. So. Incredible. And thank you to the incredible NBA desktop team. Now, the great war was here. Pingelera give it throne still is whether or not you sail the narrow sea of content with us during our seven episode run. We are glad you're here. Now, we hope that you subscribe to this podcast apple podcast Spotify or wherever you get your podcast, and please rate and reviews seven point pointed surf reading five stars for binge mode reviews. Also hit us up on Twitter and Instagram at binge underscore mode, aka the underscore and join our Facebook group, which is just for Benjamin fans and head over to the ring dot com slash shop to check out our brand new binge March if stope including Irish. Protect coast and nights of summer tease binge logo. Dad, hats, and tease and the new crew. Neck sweat shirt. I love them. All it's wonderful wonderful her last time on bench road. We had the other delight the utter delight is a true highlight of speaking to Jason's man's Becky thrown season. Eight Harry Potter, John wick so much more. And today, we're doing another thrones mailbag because you all have had so many amazing questions Russ heading into sees need that we wanted to take another week to answer them after you listened to today's pod, please be sure to head to the Bidgwood social feeds and the ringers YouTube channel and check out all the other stuff that we and everyone at the ringer. I've been working on. We have our path to the throne explainer video series up on each house stark up now, please check that out and our daily countdown of the top twenty five moments in show history. And of course, the running loose ends series and all the other awesome season. Eight preview articles on the ringer dot com. What a great website right now, though. It's time for dark wings dark words. Yeah. So he your wax hit Celia ravens girl, drop it on my chest. Rex. Because it's time for ask me underscore. Giora Leando asks you mentioned, lots of reunions. You're looking forward to in season eight what are some potential first time meetings? He'd like to see I'd like to see a Sam Tyrian combo to such well read characters with hateful father's. Let's let's do these together because we have a lot of similar. Yeah hearings. And I think we both leaned toward listing the characters who were pretty confident actually will meet like they're really a ton. Yes of potential meetings. But you know, who knows when sir see for example is going to link with various members of the cast of this is going to be north winter fell heavy non-exclusive. But I think the first one on both of our lists is also the example in the question, which is Sam Tyrian really delightful to think of these characters interacting, we should note, of course, that they just missed each other already in the show's run Sam arrives at castle black and enters John's life really just after Tyrian leaves they're separated by an EPA. Pessoa? And obviously, they are among the great scholars. Yes of the show. Great book reader have so much to talk about lot of tomes and scrolls to sift through together secrets of the world in the history of the world to try to uncover together as the question or noted he full fathers. They can bond over being disappointments to their dads and rising beyond that, bullying and bigotry to make an impact on the world fathers. Notably threatened to murder them pretty starkly. It's not what you want. Now, what you want weird to say that Taiwian probably the better father in this situation because he actually did let Tyrian do stuff. Randall deserved what he deserve we complete asshole deserved. We got salmon Tyrian not the only characters in this position entering season eight, but among the characters best positioned to steer the course of events and help the people on the front line, the Johns and the world figure it all out. So really excited to see these two bond. Let me throw it out there. Jamie and torment this is. The brand, bro. The yen Liyang the bread on the Brion sandwich. Just these two these two together. What could they possibly talk about? I actually feel like they'd hit it off both of them kind of eyeing for BN's heart torment, a little more than the heart. Go in for the entire everything the full biological good warm of Rianne. But like it just those who chatting is something that I really wanna see you got like the super handsome Knight. And Lord brought up in one of the great castles of the realm, and then the rough wild link who hasn't I don't know when his bathed blast. We don't know. I don't know when the last time water has rinsed the soot and ash, and sweat, and who knows what else off of his body is a man who has claimed to fuck a bear. Right. They both have unusual sexual appetites walking a bear on the one hand fucking your sister on the other hand. Well, hold on torment fucked to bear the back, Jamie saved Brienne from. So there's much to talk sing the bear in the Medicare together. Oh, the bath. And torments. Sonus sexually around Tommy. The bear as the meeting. One gone. He definitely wants to lick Honey out of brands hitter. And other parts of the ultimate torments three-way is the bare estimating fair. Both everytime Sheila comes up. I just love to fake back to the moment when eager it's like you. Never fucked never to ban. Crawls shop appel about she was gender when she wanted to being. One of the highlights of season seven was the conversation between torment and the hand when they both realize that they're talking about brand of tar, you do know her like you. You sincerely passionate about brand that the idea of him having a conversation with somebody else who really loves and has brands love is pretty exciting. Also to great warriors next. And what he got this is probably the most obvious one. But that doesn't make it any less exciting to think about Danny and all of the stark. So obviously, Danny sonza, and Danny Arias probably tops on that list in terms of the potential for dramatic tension in the any brands going to be a treat. I think and it's going to be a weird one in any most Danny goes, Danny San's is one that I'm dreading. It's going to be tough. I'm really worried about it. Yeah. I'm super worried about it. It's gonna be tough. You just know that it's going to be that's going to be fraught. There's a lot of faultlines in their hidden landmines, and that's gonna be a tough one. I mean, we know already from Santa receiving John's letter near the end of season seven that she was like mortified, John bent, the knee. And of course, she had tried to prevent. Him from going south in the first place begged him and feel so strongly about it that she did it in front of all of their Bannerman. She's not gonna take kindly to John returning home with Danny and her entire army. And then of course, when you factor in the variable of John's inevitable parentage reveal early in the season, it's going to be very tense. But it's also exciting to think about how hopefully the characters will break through that tension and find common ground, not only their affection for John and the war. They're fighting. But Danny sonza aria are among the three strongest women in the shows, and it's really exciting to think about them. And of course, you factor brand and Leon on all these other characters who are going to be there. This like real book, the patriarchy moment like. To count it. Here's the one that we both have yet to dragons and brand. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That is not just something that we wanna see. But I think it's something that the fan base has been wondering about in the books and the show you will never walk again, but you will fly will fly. The ravens words to brand before brand became the three. Now he has flown. We've seen him scout through the eyes of numerous ravens. But honestly, one of the biggest unanswered questions of the story is Ken Bryn Mawr dragon, really do it. Yes. And he obviously has had some direct exposure to attract him because he was working and he saw this area and bring down the wall, but for him to actually get to be next to drogue on and regal. Learn more about them. Maybe think about how he could use his magic in his powers to take over the Syrian. Yeah, potentially and that gets into the question again of his viscera more of a white Walker or white is he sent she? And can he be worked really exciting to think about speaking of animals keep going with? The annals ghost on the dragons both have this deal. That's like can we just see it? Now, see them altogether. This has the battalion might even be a tragedy. You're saying like, the I've just said one of the dragons, I worry that the dragons might try something. But I think that they would say what this anymore after thinking about that awful. I just think I'm pitching. I'm picturing them all together. But I think it has to be one of those things where John and Danny would have to really shepherd the process. Yes. I think it this way like John almost bringing home the mistress and explaining it to the wife like ghost. I'm sorry that you weren't NC's and seven shit. Ghost is still the wife in this situation. Still John's main companion, but John is going to ride rig all season aid. We are in a hundred percent agreement about this. This is going to happen. So John is going to have to explain this to go get back on the same page with a make sure ghosts understands that it doesn't cheapen their bond or their relationship in any way. It's all about the war. It's all about the great war. Gillian torment to Wild Wings commiserating over like wildlife. I'm excited to see Gilly with basically anyone hasn't met. And really the same thing goes for torment give these people a taste of something new. I'm very excited about the Gilly Varis potential. Oh, that's just seems like it could be utterly fascinating. And we've seen from a shot in the trailer that they will be in the crypts together. Presumably during the battle of winter fell wants to talk about. Honestly. It's. Wilding? I can't even imagine what they will possibly talk about. I mean Gilly knows how to read now she's a scholar she uncover secret in the history of the world. Roger, right. So they want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are you in Bron? Yeah. This is a good one. Yeah. It's a real good one. Because I think Brian listen, we love Braun Braun is amazing one of the great bad boys of our story. I love my guy. But he will surely not take aria seriously at first, and I think that will be an interesting tension of like, you know, because I think back to that moment at the red keep before the battle of blackwater when he and the hound squared off in the brothel the tavern when it's like, no one was going to back down in that situation. And it was like, you know, you wanna put someone in the ground when there's like Brown ale and beautiful women all around and we have to fight in like ten minutes if a similar situation comes up with he and aria. Yeah. That's much more fraught than he even understands. He doesn't understand what he's getting into in a situation. Like that. If that happens, that's really interesting. I had almost been thinking about it in anticipating in the exactly opposite way in kind of like a game recognized. Game way. I feel like they might be like, here's another really excellent killer and somebody who doesn't necessarily subscribe to what anyone else would call social norms or certainly laws, but has a personal code that dictates decision making and where that line is. Or if that line even exists, I think it have a lot of fun murdering people together, I think they would to just about that. I just think that aria Arias background now in her experience is not anything that even the best fighters and most experienced warriors in west rose can really grapple with. They just have no understanding of what she has done and what she's capable of doing. And that makes her insanely dangerous. Yes. Insanely dangerous. I'm excited about a lot of different aria first time pairings in addition to Bron REO in Davos, and aria and Yarra if you are a is rescued and comes back into the story. I think that like were to tough women who take. What is ours is appealing to me and the orient Davos thing. I think could be really funny because he just has such an established pattern at this point of basically substituting some sort of young person for for his back that he's. For his entire family. And he hasn't even thought about. Do you love your wife? I do. But you've known all the women. Don't talk about my wife. Don't talk about her. I never will either. How should the war the great war moved back south more should the king's landing contingent in some way, move north. How about the night king and Khyber n-? We saw how Kaban reacted to seeing one white can dragon. His may keep this keep this hand for my for my own personal personally, use experiments. Yes. The work continues. Does the masturbation the continues. If you apply some. Seed oil to the palm. That was specific to the palm of the white on. You find it it feels incredibly like the real thing. Animal. I love the idea of Khyber asking the night king if he can perform an autopsy on like, his I spider, they examine this can I take this horse carcass? Examine this with its intestines hanging. Yes. Yes. This is a little bit of a cheat this next one because also had it on the reunions list, but it's kind of in that middle ground because we think that these characters would have been in the same place at the same time based on years chronology, but not when one of the characters was basically conscious of what was happening so Jorunn Liana because we was basically a baby when she was exiled. So it really be the first time that they interact in a meaningful fashion, and we on a such a hard s and Giora has a lot that he feels deep. Shame about and knows that he betrayed his family, and the fact that he's going to interact with now the head of this family position that should have been his had he not transgressed and gone into exile say fate was correct on this one. Clearly, I love Giora. But I think we got the right leader of bear island in this particular situation. All right next from Asiana Sarkar with all the characters we know from the show. What was your ideal leader and small council setup? I love this question. I'd want Davos as my hand Brienne is making guard. And I. Hot by. Hi master incredible. Okay. So the categories that we need to fill our ruler hand of the king or Queen Lord commander of the king's guard master of coin master of laws master of whispers master of ships master of war, though, with the caveat that that's a source show invention, and then obviously grand Maistre you wanna just all for one ruler Danja. Yeah. I think we both John, and Danny John, and Danny Danny John, whatever needs to happen. I think if we're going to break the wheel, then let's truly break it, and let's see something revolutionary coal rulers. I think John ending up on the throne while I think we would all be like. Yeah. John. It'll be a great king. It be great to see some real change in west Reuss. I think they need their first Queen real Queen, and certainly doesn't fucking count real Queen ever to me. We can't answer this question if we've broken the wheel because if we break the wheel that this power structure is not imply I. Union place. I'm not so sure breaking the wheel would have to be either democracy or independent kingdoms or something. Sure. Because I think John Danny co equal ruler. That's never happened. That's like painting the wheel and chrome a. Yeah. But we don't know putting on the we don't know what the structure underneath is. But I do think that I think that would be revolutionary in and of itself because they fought wars already to not have a female sovereign. It's also cool to think about them co-ruling because while John himself is the song of ice and fire day together are also John representing ice Danny representing fire there, obviously currently falling deeply in to love or at least lost. But they're chasing a lot of the same things. But are also really really different diametrically opposed in approach in a way that actually seems like it could work like they could be a check and balance on each other with them as our rulers. Who's the hand? I'm going with sons I'm here, and I initially had sonza and then I ended up. Changing my mind and moving sonza in this scenario to warden s of the Norse because I actually don't think that signs would really like working for John. That's my take give her dominion over her owner. I think she can do both as we saw with John Erin as we saw with Lord at art stark. I think she can still rule the north end be hand. I think that she's become certainly one of the most competent and vibrant administrators in the realm at this point when winter fills preparing for war, you know, she was overseeing almost like every aspect of that process. I haven't these morons put leather on the armor. Yeah. And I think let's give her a stake in the future of the realm. I'd love to see it. And I just think that she's incredibly capable at this point. And you know, I think you also need someone in there, not the Tyrian can't do this. I think he needs someone in there who can talk shit to both of these people credibly and has not fucked up as much as Tyrian has. Recently. So my the reason I initially had signs on not Tyrian is because of the amount of times Tyrian has fucked up and the number of ELS that he's taken. But then you start to play out the string and you put him anywhere else. I had him initially and master of laws, but it's I don't think he would take well to being in a lesser station. And I don't want I want to think about how my team functions a whole. I don't want a climber going from master of laws looking to get into the position of hand. I don't want tension between Sante ran. So I just wanna free sonza of the confines of this power dynamic, and let her go be great on her own anterior knows how to stand up to both of them, not necessarily successfully. Well, we disagree there. But I think it's a good those are the two choices. Sure. Lord commander of the king's guard. This is an easy spree and Bram this while she wants to do absolution wants the job give her the job. She'd be good at it, Abby Lous. It's just like just do it guard the king Queen. Design their security. She loves it. That's what she was born to do. She's been trying to do it all story. Let her do it. I think Jamie would be very proud of her. I think she would fill page after page after page in the book of brothers, which we would need to rename the book of the kings guard queen's guard ruler guard ruler on. All of these the names. But that's a minor thing. Brienne of tar the job is your continuing to put oath keeper to good use. That'd be awesome. Master of coin. I love this. I had pod. And here's why because he's getting free puss exam. Fucking exactly literally so good at everything. He does that people just give him money back fucking raining. Down upon Padre pain. Slathered the Rumson debt sent pod to the brothel right to create a extricate assert point keta surplus. I think it's a constraint issue. Who did you go I go with DAV owes? He doesn't have a background in it. It's true. But I think you need honest guy in there like we've seen the shady characters and what they've been able to do and basically put the realm into debt quite quickly. But I think you need somebody who's willing to go the iron Bank go to John, and Danny go to whoever and say, okay here is what's happening, right. No bullshit. We've seen of course, Davos, treat successfully with the iron banks during their services for status back in the day. And then he knows how to use the coin once he has it to woo, say, Salvador, son or others to his service. Yeah. It's a good choice. I have Davos in another position master of laws next. I have Tyrian who do you have well s it, and I had Tyrian initially before I moved him. This is a tough one to justify. It's honestly unjustified. Any other way, except that you wanna keep Giora around the only way to justify sure. Sure. Because here's the thing. I can't picture a small council that in any way serves Danny that doesn't have juror on it that this feel right to me. He's her dearest friend and chief advisor, right? This me have to be there with the wolf in charge of the hurt. He knows how people think on each side of the law. You know, he's been all around the world. He's seen all sorts of things all types of life. He's wise. I think the other potential outcome for Giora that would be cool though. I don't want him away from Danny? But we could put Tyrian back in master of laws puts on us hand. And we could send Giora to the wall to rebuild the Nightwatch to honor. His father's legacy in that way to do the thing that he always should've done. What do you think of that that'd be actually ideal and we get rid of L A B C law. So I can still visit him my hold on as Sam noted. That's right. Take no wife. Yes. That's quite clear on that. Complaint all the other stuff. Yeah. He's just not going to get wiped up. But fine, all the other stuff is already married absolutely trista down in mole town. Only most on their RIP to a legend scandal legend. Yeah, I for massive laws. I go Tyrian. I understand it is a demotion for him at the same time. He will be ruined castle the westerns from Castle Rock, I think he's got a great mind for law. I think he'd be very good at it. I think it's a great way to affect the realm. Not just now, but in the future by designing the way, the law's work within the greater round. This is a way to put your stamp on west rose in a way that will live far beyond your span. I that's how I pitch it to him. If I was telling fails, if I was talking to him about taking this demotion, but really truly like you're going to write laws that other sovereigns will come in, and then modify and that will be the basis for a west coast that will live into the future. He tried to get Danny to think this way right when he brought up breaking the wheel again and brought up the idea of the succession plan. What would that look like would there be a new way of electing a new leader for? That out he could design all of that. I think that's a great job for him. That's my pitch Tyrian. What do you think? I like it. Okay. Yes. Master or master's of whispers this each pick two people. I love it. I went with various because he he still has to have a role. Right. And then brand because brand literally knows everything. Yeah. So you don't even need the little birds. I s brand. I I think that's a great one. I love that a lot. I don't have various on my list. I guess I was just hoping the guy would retire. Or be like kind of go join an acting troupe. Again, it'll be be kind of like a consultant like an unofficial consultant. He can live in the capital and just kind of like when you need something. Go talk to him. I picked brand and aria wrong. I think aria we need to put those skills to use. I think our needs to be a free agent. Now, I tire down. She would just work in the field. So we'd have brand watching everything. And then let's say there's some upstart somebody the golden company or someone over an Esso's that needs taking out aria. Do you wanna take a trip? Yes. Of course, she's probably over there. Maybe nobody even knows where she is except for brand. And I just think her skill set. You can't leave it off the board. She can be anybody. She can kill anybody. She can touch anybody anywhere. I need her as the tip of the spear of my intelligence operation. So that's really what we've landed on its this isn't a one person job anymore. It's not this is a network. Yeah. I love it. Thank you. We're really solving this. I know we really are massive ships to me this has to be Davos because. This is literally his trade smuggler and short on the nice. Although again, watched that clip of him rowing Mela, Sandra. To the cove. What is he doing with those ores to be fair? Have you seen Mel asandra? If he was distracted at all you want to see what's up to this row. I don't. I have I have Yara for this k-. I just think tough beat. Beat when her and Laura just feeling the heat. And yet you trust her in a position of power. I just think she's learned from her mistakes. And she is obviously a dedicated captain who has the love of her sailors, and I think she'd really build an incredible fleet. And I feel like we need an iron born out there to kind of counter the constant iron born threat that was I was thinking kind of the opposite way. Like, I want her to just focus on ruling the iron islands and keeping those loons and monsters in line, and I worry that if she's in the capital, there will just be another uprising more insurrection yet. It people will be back on the stone ashore before we even know it. I worry I just kind of feel like the iron born when they really get into trouble is when they're just kind of allowed when they're kind of just like set aside, and okay, just rule yourselves and do your own thing. And I I understand you're over there. Ruling the iron islands directly from the iron islands is good. But I want to tie them a little tighter to the realm. That's all I'm quite master of war. We both have Jamie, Jamie. Gotta be Jamie. I love the idea of Jamie being in the fold with so many of the other people that he's been opposed. To for so long feel like he'd be a great general wonderful. Yeah. Wonderful. I mean, he can't fight anymore. Sorry, jamie. You can't do it anymore. That's fine. But you still have that mind for war. He does. And he also has a lot of lessons to share like, here's why you shouldn't charge. A dragon, right? Here's how rob beat me. And whispering wood this hap- hen swim in heavy armor, when you should be drowning as you're falling into a puddle of water that is five hundred. Grandma. Stor sits. It's gotta be saying we'll tartly to educate us all he can still fuck. Absolutely. We're rewriting along rewriting a lot of it. And like listen listen pie. Cell was fucking pie sale is out there with the fucking Roz and her vaj bowl fucking Roz with the vaj bowl and stretching it out the early douche was just a bowl, then pice come. She like chambers. Meter thing about king. The thing about the thing about over. Override. Washed regular into ROY. So you don't want burn anywhere near no. Oh. No. Anybody want Khyber d- near their shit. No. I mean, come on. It's be very very. Put eggs in these stirrups. Lock these down. Yeah. No. He's first of all not even a Maistre. You cannot be at grand may store or an arch. Maistre anything? That's what they say that he's not even me is not even a Mason. Okay. So we've each changed a couple of our picks. And I think with the exception of where to slot Davos, we landed on the same page, John Daniels ruler saunas hand Bryanne kings guard TVD master of coin Tyrian master of laws drawer will restart the nice watch for us our network for the whisperers Davos or Yarra ships, Jamie war, Sam Maistre, can I convince you the Davos should be master ships and pods should be master of coin. And then we can just have the same small council and rule with peace. I can't I need. I need. I need an honest. I need the most honest possible man in coin. And it's so it has to be Davos, I understand that his specialty ships, but I just need that guy is going to be like learned debt. That's what's going on. Who's watching the iron islands? If you are is in king's landing. That's the only thing I need you to sell me on. It's a great question. I can't be fan. Absolately cannot be on. I think that there's a world in which Yara is master of ships. But spends more. Most of her time on the iron islands like and she's called for when needed interesting. We gotta marry her to somebody like somebody good Tyrian may be Danny. Her sponsor that in marine is still one of the best moments time, I mean as a purely political thing, and then like she can just do what she wants, obviously. And now a brief break for a word from our sponsors. Today's episode binge road is brought to you by daily harvests. The last time you eat a breakfast. You felt good about not a bowl of Choudhury cereal. But a breakfast, that's nourishing your body. Now, you can transform breakfast. Daily harvest daily harvests delivers carefully sourced shift. Crafted smoothies, savory bowls, overnight, oats and more built on fruits and vegetables. Everything stays fresh in your freedom until you're ready to eat it. Choose from more than fifty nursing options for anytime of the day ready to blend smoothies, savory harvest bowl soups and more lawsuit. Just add water or milk to a smoothie or heat up a harvest bowl up to you. And enjoy all daily harvests ingredients are carefully sourced for maximum nourishment and flavor, you can actually see all the ingredients when you open up the Cup. Daily harvest is the easiest most delicious way to load up on fruits. And vegetables anytime of the day. Folks, we were lucky enough to try daily harvests, and guess what? It's everything they say in more. That's right. One of the things. That's really nice about it. It's a blend of structure and flexibility. So you know, you're gonna have the fresh ingredients right there in the cop. But then you can decide are you in the mood. First movie, are you in the mood for overnight, outs, etc. Etc. Do you wanna use almond milk? Coconut milk, some other kinds of milk. They're always making new kinds of milk. Jason I love all the milk's quick and easy for the person on the go. Go to daily dash harvest dot com and enter promo code binge moat to get three cups free in your first box. That's promo code binge mood for three free daily harvest cups at daily dash harvest dot com. Daily dash harvest dot com. And now back to binge abode. Next question. Brendan Evans who would have the best and worst standup routines in the game of thrones universe. Oh, man. Oh, I didn't see the part of the set worst. We'll let's go. We I think we have a lot of similar best ones. Tyrian has some of the greatest lines already. Some of the best laugh lines in the show. Yeah. He's a riot. We also are still waiting for the punchline of the honeycomb jackass joke that he's tried to tell a couple of times. I mean, I will never get over Chicago son of dolphin saying. How would you like to die half men and him saying at the age of eighty the bellyful of wine in the run? My cock. Bumps. Incredible great. It's a good goal. And then while we're talking about hill tribes. And then another candidate is Braun, and we saw some of his humor when Tyrian is introducing all of the hill tribes people, and then it gets to Braun son of them. Big big there. I don't have to add him. Now. I think torment is great because torment kind of an early improv guy. Yes. He's big into improv and bits. He lets the. The moment guide him. Yes. For example, end could the mood have been more tense when John was reborn. It could not have and yet. Yeah. Did dormant persevere and find a way to make a dick joke. He did. He says, you know that all the all the Johnson sorta God. But how can you be? What kind of God, I'm a picker that small? I mean. This whole Sheila thing, which we've talked about a lot is, you know, you talk about one of the great comic improvisers and game of thrones history. It's gotta be torment. Just talking about know. She's on soft, right? Pretty dumb. He just goes with it. He just goes with it. Wonderful Olana Alana's an hour this. He's like he's a roaster an insult comic. Mike dropper? Yeah. I mean, let her just do a ten minutes set all about search. Yeah. I wonder if feel the worst person I ever fucking great Bob Bob bothering, one of the most savage lines ever baba even just the way that she interacted with Taiwian every assessment of someone else's character plays as both truth end humor really a wonderful balancing act. She's a delight. I like Ed you have Ed droll dry. Self deprecating. Very dry mino- Burgan. Sometimes you just need someone to point out that if there were gods, right? We wouldn't far when we die. You need to know that every now, and then you need someone to say it right next. Any other ones were missing their. Oh, Isaac Lee says Dabo's that'd be a good one. Could Hof next? Steven Stevenson, if Simmons ever gifted you Valerian sword. What would you name it? This is fun. I had a really hard time on this one. I didn't this is great. So I I would name my Valerian soared the very first one. I wouldn't even EMMY winner. And spice giver, I love it. What about you? I struggled. I was thinking about halo inspired things. So one much in the vein of needle whisker. I love that. Actually. That's wonderful. I love hellos whiskers. They bring me great joy without of whisker. And then halos glow. Delightful for something he used potato enemies. But sometimes the like dawn is very lovely. You know, sometimes the shorts have lovely name. We should just mention that dawn made from a meteorite that's right out Valerian, but we were just talking about sword. Sword name generous. Yeah. Don is lovely. But I was trying to think of things in my life that I care about. And, you know, halos, obviously, the first thing I think about what are let's help each other think of some more whether other things we care about or things we hate like, I hate the Yankees in the Steelers. So like you compare one of those with being much like heart Spain's, like Yankees bane? I like the idea of that. And we like shoes, let's think of a shoe one. Oh, man, shoe copper. Laser Knickerbocker, Knickerbocker. Well, they don't deserve it yet. I love my knickerbockers. They just don't deserve it. This particular time to name a sword after how about Zion. Let's wait. Let's give it six weeks for you know, about that. Whether we want to name a sword after his Zion who love it. Okay. Will if you could snag one prop from the throne set. What would it be? Oh, man. Now listed a hundred things. These are all just the things I thought of instantaneously. So there are probably five hundred more. Sure, I just read them really read them anything that Iain Glen war while portraying Giora more money. Literally anything would you? What about his grace scale? Like, sure. Would you take whatever that is? Yeah. They'll likely flayed flesh thing that they put on his arm. Why not sure the prosthetic sure? Actual long claw. Now, I have a replica like along Claude home that is really quite heavy and sharpen very cool. But the actual long claw that kid Harrington held onset while playing Johnstone. They'll be incredible. You had that on your list to I want all the Valerian weapons just every single one. This long claw. Give us a keeper. I don't really need widows will to I want the complete set give me heart Spain. Gimme the assassin's blade. Gimme all of it. You mean ice even I want an animatronic dragon. That's pretty great. Why not I want? I want like the dog sized one when they were just like the babies I want the one where they have Amelia Clark like, right? It into loot train that one when Joe Johns like huge already. That's why I want Ren lease crown. I think it's the best crown in the show the best wardrobe and want Ren Lisa crown since credible stuff will nights of summer owed not Valerian steel sword. But I want needle from needle from the actual show that one to obviously, a high sept- in Maynard scrolls. So that we can look through and see not only the massive reveal. But all hits. I honestly want to see all the shit. I could all the stat. I could do without the shits and stuffs the book of brothers. I think it would be really cool slightly subtle prop to love that Jamie's Hans solo ask jacket from the mid season runs when when he was out in front of. Doc worst oak with being like just looking at you better girl, better castle was great. She was wonderful wonderful woman, very chill. Loved a stroll. By the sea seemed happy to like not so subtly commit to the murder of her older sister. She was mean. So mean, Dario stagger lady Jagger played the lady dagger? I would like a the bars that titans. That's a great one. I would like those bars. Just put them next to my bed. Give me the simple. Let's Sam gives to Gilly. That's so cute. That would be really sweet one to have loons Maistre chain any of the major chains, but I won't Lewis. Yeah. 'cause I like to think about the moment when he lifts up the Valerian chain talks about studying higher mysteries. And how wrong he got that? All it's a very sweet moment with brand though. Amy of sir wine Goblets, I need a really recognizable. One. I was thinking about Mace Tyrell gift to Joffrey the big goblet with all the major out of the great houses like their singles inscribed on the sides. That would be pretty cool. That's a great one. Yeah. Pie sells vegetable. Yeah. This is the bowl that Roz washer vagina out in season. One a game of thrones. I lo- the turnip cart. Oh, yeah. Lily get the turn of cart. That's a great one Bulgarian skull. Need a lot of room for it? And I guess I'll take it in the current incarnation after big big crossbow hip, but ideally, I'd like a pre Khyber n- tarnished one give me the painted table for my home. That's a fucking awesome. I would like it to be cleaned first disinfected. Let's get Milla Sandra's juices off of that. I want all essence of status removed. Sandra glamour, necklace, would be a very cool properly little big I wouldn't wear it. But I would just like to have it. I'd like to have a to Davos is fingers finger bones, and his it's like how many times we have to hear about the flicking fitness Jesus Christ. You what good with the Cleveland? Oh, how about the leeches gantries cockle each in Hockley? Do you have a Cochlear eventually going to give it through said? We like weird question. Do you guys off the cockroaches? Wait till you're right. Excellent. To Lisa's foot. Saucy? I want the foot. I want the foot and the saw I want both because what good is it to have the one I want. Here's what I want from Lisa. I want to foot the saw and that little like back box. She had she had that box on their back that had like all her supplies in it predecessor to the Herschel fanny pack. I want that I want that whole little like Florence Nightingale like get up at crow foot end the saw incredible I want because I assumed that the one they used in the show is not actually perishable that we do. See our take a bite of it. I want hot pies dire. Wolf bread. That's great. I want that to have that on there. Well else. Let's see. So I have all of areas I want Jamie's hand you a great one ice in the wolf scabbard the pink letter just to have. Just to have dark, but wonder. Yeah, dragon eggs. Of course, I would like to threat Iraq dare Liebau to three key breed like as a whig to be like I have defeated someone yet. Fuck yet rebels in it to shake that all around. And let's see I would like a dragon glass dagger. Maybe to just to have you never know when you that's gonna come in handy or you never know when you might be like a top wall watching a ice drive. I'm just lie. You not use. It just be jacking off in the corner. Oh my God. Think what else could I get like a moon door? What about again, I broke out in? I've brought you gift. You know, what I'd love Thai wins letter writing kit. Yeah. His parchment his quill ink pot, his whack ceiling. These letter writing determined so much of the course to censor rate. One of love that I'd like a hand of the king or Queen pin from which character you got to pick probably tie wins. Taiwan's. I also like I'm really partial like there's a lot of great armor in the show, but I'm really partial to tie wins. Lancaster, armor, Jamie, Lammers Stormers my favorite. But the last summer looked just looks clear the festive fucking great Arbor. It looks great really good. The stark stuff is like Kamanga. Let's. I love it. Okay. Wonderful. We'll take anything with anyone has props. And. Our next Marvin. Yeah. Asks which game of thrones. Character would be best addition to the writer, honestly agree with all of these the first three that I put down where Samland Amore monitoring. I agree with all these. But can we read Zach crams reasoning for sharing? Yeah. I think we we have every now, and then we have an obligation to share crams descent into let me just say, yes. With the mad the mammogram came out folks, the darkness in cram is startling and truly appalling to behold, here's we put just right here in a Google docs comment. I picked Charene loves to read loves to nerd out over history, Kansas fine. So far right is enthusiastic about the things. She finds super nice true. And then he has a parenthetical here at the end and in the parenthetical he sets and the next time. The heat goes off in the LA. Offices. You can burn her for warps, very tough. I got back. Cram. Cram everybody. What's? Burger for warp off on. There are a lot of issues with that. Obviously an appalling murder is being suggested by that. Cram. Really medieval. And it's despicable miss truly troubling Howard Lee. And troubling also, you know, not a long-term solution to heat problems in a structure. Yeah. Because it's very you do it once, and then that bullet has been fired, and you can't really fire it again, also clean up big issue. Who's who's getting in there? And and just mopping up this ash pile you risk alienating some of your colleagues. See I think it's going to be obviously, it's gonna really mess up workflow that day the screams Jeff innately HR violation the screams terrible. I could write something into the contract. At will burning. But I've it's terrible. This is how we know. The Chicago cold is getting to cram. Yeah. I know right. Obviously Liana Cherie, and in particular, you know, those precocious youngsters that we love here Sam. So well, read such a scholar, you know, who else will be good Bryanne because she's so loyal would really any task you set. She would see through no matter. Why would she what would she be? She had four hundred jobs between being Ren lease king's garden, actually killing standards for cheated. Not forget to check kill status off her to duelists. She'd figure it out. I also put Tyrian in there as a extremely well read person. I worry about a Power cO at Tyrian. Oh, interesting. Yeah. This is the experience of a person who's seen a lot of the media. Casey Caygill theories on whether Jamie will live or die, and if die how. So when reading the books, I always thought Jamie would have to somehow die in the process of filling the Vallon car prophecy. Because there's she always said thinks the effective we came into this world together, we will leave this world together. I don't want him to die because he's my favorite character in the story. But I can't imagine it going down any other way. I kind of feel like it's that symmetry. It's almost too perfect. I'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Obviously we both are on record as saying we really want him to kill her. It'd be so if anybody should kill her. It is Jamie. Yes. And we also on the record that we don't really think our guy has high odds of making it out of the season alive. He doesn't I think still that the circumstances. Most likely in the show to lead to Jamie, finally killing source is something happening to Bryanne at the battle of winter fell. And Jamie, blaming, sir. See for. Her ruse backing on the agreement to send troops to the north one possibility on wanna throughout their sure Adams suggested this to me, I don't personally think this is true because I think he wants to let the army of the dead and all of the army of living that is up north Terry parts of that she has to deal with a smaller group after those Jamie pointed out someone wins and someone comes for us for you in this case cushy potentially send the golden company up to try to surprise attack. And could that be what sets Jamie off potentially and leads to him fulfilling the prophecy and killing her? I mean, I like that too. I kind of feel like, sir. She's gonna want to keep the golden company close like is she able to actually have the discipline to just sit there and wait. Yeah. I wonder I think she's gonna want to keep them close. She's going to want to mop up whatever survives and comes down south with the remnants of that army of Danny John's army. She's gonna wanna just mop them up. Another possibility though would be if this is something we've. Discussed in our trailer breakdown think couple of places the idea of your on betraying her. We know the golden company has never broken a contract. But what's the contract can be? She said you're on to secure that which is foolish ridiculously. So could he betray her take the army as his own and could he attack and then could Jamie, hold her accountable for her stupidity and her betrayal? I think it's going to be some combination of urine, and sir c of European usurping. Jamie's placed by sir. Seaside in a real way. Yeah. His finger his bomb in the head of Jamie and eaten that ass and just being the dick that search has always kinda needed. A never got from Jamie, the kettle black standing the kettle black stand him like she when she went to land. So she's like give me some young shit. And I think you're on a little freaky. Jamie, jamie. Like, I love Jamie to death not willing to really step outside. Yeah. The norms. Yeah. Really basic shit. Just fucking his sister, just super basic, mich-, incest, and sir. She's ready for something else at this point in her life. And I think that is going to be the thing that drives Jamie to murder. What about this question though, in the idea of them going out of the world together? That's interesting to consider as let's say Rian staff other atrocities up north the living lose the battle of winter fell survivors retreat. Jamie, Kelsey, how does he then die after that? I think like Casey suggests I do think it's if you kill the Queen. That's a suicide mission. You don't leave that room? Whatever happens. You don't leave their? I mean does the mountain take care of Jamie? Does he fight the mountain on though is like mortally wounded fighting the mountain to get to turn. I wanna I wanna say that. I hope cla game bull happens before this the hound in Jamie in the red keep gunning for C would be fucking. Two little brothers too little on cars to Vallon cars with a fucking grudge. And let's finish this now. I dig it. Yeah. Let's take another quick break for a word from our sponsors. These Benjamin it's brought to you by policy genius time has a habit of flying by. But if you have a mortgage kids cat a dog dire. Wolf dragon anything at all pending on your income. You'll have to spend some of that precious time getting life insurance if you need life insurance, but you don't want to spend a lot of time comparing it give policy genius. Try policy genius is the easy way to buy life insurance online in just two minutes. You can compare quotes from the top insurers and find your best price. Once you apply. The policy genius team will handle all the paperwork and red tape, no commissions, no hidden fees. Just more time saved for you. We're time to listen to bender mode. Yes. And policy genius doesn't just make life insurance easy. They also make it easy to find the right home insurance auto insurance or disability insurance. So your one stop shop for financial protection if you need life insurance, but you're short on time into policy genius dot com. And compare quotes policy teams. Is easy. It saves you money, and it's fast policy genius. Spend less time comparing life insurance and more time doing literally anything else. Today's been drugged. Also brought to you by Robin, Robin Hood is an investing app lets you buy and sell stocks ETF's options and cryptos all commission free. While other brokerages charge up to ten dollars. Forever. Trade Robin doesn't charge any commission fees. So you could trade socks keep all of your prophets. Plus there is no account minimum deposit needed to get started. So you can start investing at any level. The simple intuitive design of robinhood makes investing easy for newcomers and experts alike view, easy to understand charts and market data in place a trade in just four taps on your smartphone. You can also view stock collections such as one hundred most popular with Robin Hood, you can learn how to invest in the market is you build your portfolio. Discover new stocks trek your favorite companies, get Costa notifications for price moving. So you never miss the right moment to invest Robin Hood is giving listeners have been game of thrones a free stock. Free. Like, apple four or sprint? To help you build your portfolio. Sign up at binge mode dot Robin, Hood dot com. And now back to binge mode. Next question comes from Kristen Bennett, why is theon Craig still alive? Does he have something meaningful to contribute before he dies or is? He just there to be known character who dies in battle. You know? It's interesting question because in the books at least where we are now. And I'm including some of the chapters that have been released early it feels like the books are setting up theon to be kind of like, a Ghalem character tortured. You're wondering the whole time. Like, why is this guy still around? Why is he still around? But then there's an ultimate payoff at the end where you're like a hobby you needed just this person for whatever sacrifice comes at the very end the show is certainly not that because he's been admitted into the highest levels of decision making of the John Danny grand alliance. Obviously, there's some we're looking at redemption. But it's not super clear what his actual structural role is beyond like the emotional redemption. Ark. What do you think? Well, I'm interested in just diving into the redemption question a little bit further because not only in assessing other people's thoughts and feelings about put our own because I think something that we've both realized talking about season eight four most two years between seasons here is that we don't give theon the same breaks and the same credit that we're willing to give to other characters who have undergone a redemption ark. So just as save an argument. Let's quickly compare Jamie and fan. Why are we so willing to forgive Jamie? But to not even engage with the idea of forgiving, you haven't got the answer I did too. I just think it's worth talk shirt. What is your answer? Because what Jamie did was strangers. And with the ended was to family. I would say that. And I I would add that what Jamie did he did it knowingly, and he has never not owned. Yeah. Whereas everything theon has ever done has been because he was afraid and was essentially a fucking coward. That's the other thing is that genie as vile. Some of the things he did were always acted in light of his own true north which was there was Hersi or someone else. Yes. I'm doing this for someone. I love that's not why theon sacked winter felt it. It was because he was greedy and power hungry and desperately in need of living up to some idea that someone else had of him. I obviously am fully for Jamie. And I'm not rooting for theon. So I'm a part of this. I just I'm curious to assess our logic here. I think the other thing that's kind of interesting is like theon has these moments where you buy back in. And then he lets you down again, right where he doesn't go with Yara, for example, or he trays sonza by ten. Calling Ramsey about the candle up in the tower, or obviously the most recent prominent example, let's year on take your prisoner, and he flees, but there again, do we give him enough empathy for the fact that he is a survivor of sincere trauma that in those moments is suffering from the everlasting effects of that Trump has on him. I would counter by saying the trauma is appalling. I think the difference is this because there's numerous characters that have gone through traumatic experiences. And the reason we root for them is because they step outside of themselves. And despite the trauma put themselves out into the world to risk themselves for other people Jamie risked his life to save Brienne. Theon is never done it. Well, it has never done anything for anybody else. Ever. He helps sons us Cape winter fall at the end of all this stuff after numerous people had died and been flayed because he was fucking cowardly again. And he's of course, escaping and he's all right. He's he's doing. Something for personal gain here. Yes that comes. But it's so fucking late in the game. And he had so many opportunities to man up and do something do the right thing. Any never fucking does it. He lets the fucking young boys stand in for brand and Rick on murders, two boys. Yep. To cover his own ass refuses to go with Yara when she fucking stepped out to save him. It goes on and on with him. And every time he's given the chance is put a knife in his hand and fucking shaves. Ramsey's neck. It's like man up and save yourself. Right now, doesn't do it. There's this like a million chances. He's given to do something for other people or do something that would for once not just benefit him in this given moment, and he just doesn't do it, Hugh. Rarely does it. He always comes up short. He always disappoints you every time even saving signs. That was great. Great. Great great still is somehow disappear. Pointing I think. Yeah. That's ultimately, the key difference is that with Jamie, for example. It does feel like just this forward momentum where he has really evolved before our eyes into not only the person that he always had the chance to be but into somebody may be never knew he could be and theon continues to sort of vacillate between a little flicker of possibility. And then some sort of despair, I think like the Ramsey example is an interesting one to think about because he is utterly broken in that moment, and is it reasonable to expect somebody in that situation to be able to find the strength to make any kind of stand. I don't know. But he's made us ask that question more than any other character, which is probably the reason that we're not able to get there with him. I'm really curious what the show's lesson is with him. I mean, that's a great point. Like is it reasonable to expect him to after all he's been through to do thing that would certainly end in his torture, and like horrible death at the same time judged on the scale of other characters within this story. He's like the. Only one that that would take that route. You know, we've seen every other character go through horrible things almost every other character and all of them would be like give me a quick death. Like, I'm gonna go out cutting this fucking bastards throat, you go down the line. John, Danny sonza, aria Tyrian. They would go out being like, I'm going to go out gutting this motherfucker and theon is the one who wouldn't do it. Yeah. Do you think that his season? Eight arc is going to be an effort to get us to change. How we feel about him or do you think that that's not the role? He plays anymore. Gotta die. He's done. Too much. He's really done too much. So there'd be redemption for a multi. If he saves your off. He dies roic. Is there a way that you can get to that point with him where you as a fan of the story say, I'm at least enough of the way back in on this guy that I feel positively towards him and think he's served. It's gotta be like the Ghalem thing where he does a thing that only he could do and without that they don't win. He's got a sacrifice himself in a way that is so personal and only accessible by his story arc right? And that's the way it has to be where you're like. Okay. I understand why he's still here. And it can't just be a product of circumstance. It has to be a choice young. He has to make that choice. Because as he said before, you know, last time, we made a choice with winter fell, for example. I chose wrong. He has to choose right. Yeah. All right last question of the day Glenis Arnold. If there is no thrown at the end, who do you think will release kingdom, how might the remaining free folk factor into the newest that's a really cool question. So this is a breaking the wheel scenario where there's no central power, right and independent kingdoms have dominion. Some kind of like some kind of federated system the north. I think we both agree here. Sonza gotta be her let our girl flex it. Honestly would be too dangerous to not let her do it. Yeah. I have to be wonderful. I think she'd be an incredibly capable ruler of the north and not to trifled with in any respect. And I don't see any sort of siblings squabbling here because I think REO will embrace her life as somebody who is one with the land, you know, out and about on her own adventures serving her function not tied down. You know, she said to Ned that's not me iron islands. Gotta be ARA. Of course who else honestly last surviving child. There are no other options here that are accent. Yeah. Theon the iron islands will not follow the on the fact that the iron islands that any iron islanders follow theon because he beat up a guy on a beach is kind of crazy to me. It's gotta be Yara. They will follow her at no other spawn of Belan, great joy, I worry about the future of the iron islands. If you are it does not make it out of season eight so just to kings mood in it'll be a bloodbath in they'll be fine. Bring Darien into our store. Yeah. The veil this. This is interesting. Sweet, robin. We are having protector of the Vale. I think that I think that sonza is going to have a out size. Listen, we're talking about an independent kingdoms here. I think saunas going to have an outsized influence in the Vale. I think that she will flex for statecraft muscles by influencing affairs in the Vale because of Robin's fondness for her like it. Yeah. I like it. And the other lords of the Vale, obviously are very loyal to her. Yeah. Even beyond drop and. Yeah. So I think that the north and the Vale is going to be would be in this scenario and a real alliance to watch out for. So you're not giving it to Chicago sun of dolph. No, he's up in the hills. Just eating fucking goats. You're not letting the burned men have ago by they're not capable administrators. Now river lands. This was the hardest one. I thought of any of the regions because the only living character of prominence with ties to ruling in the river, lenses, Admiral Polian. We don't want that. I don't want that. Well, I mean, do you want that? Don't want it. But you kind of have to go through with it. He's also married to a daughter of fray, and that's like a powerful match your delight to me, you ought to delight lady. Fucking Ed mirror. Got it off. Gotta say got a full court heave off as the red wedding was going on. Here's my allies those loins in the midst of a massacre. Here's my take if you are busy fucking while your family's getting massacred. And then you betray the black fish and alternately his death and his hand over your in central hall in the sceviour power to the enemy because you are a coward amount on you for life. I just think that like we have the child we have the match at mirror middle aged guy. Let the baby will the baby let the let him be like, you know. Lord protector of the river lands for the child who will then be the actual ruler. That's what I say. I would also say similar with sonza in the Vale. I think aria is going to have a lot to say about how the river lands shakes out. She's got Nigeria there as her proxy just watching shit. And I think our is not going to let the river lands. Get out of control. That's why I have nightmares. My ruler of the river lands. Let the Wolfpack real and my other contender here the pie Haapai himself. Again. I think hospital hanging out in. I'm press rounding the butter. The fact is craft. It's the secret. He knew how hard it is Jason and a time of war to find the kidneys that you need. I know I just think that they can I just think that you know, he's in the perfect spot for him. I don't think we need him actual running stuff, and like, you know, the diabetes and the river leads which is through the roof at that point. I think we need a man of the people somewhere. The man of the people Kremlin's this is where Danny John are going to be right easy. Simple. We'll be content just thinking about her little fiefdom year. Again, I think it'll be like a federated structure in which she is recognized as kind of like a leader figure, but it's offset by this kind of like gathering of high nobles lords or whatever it's like a bicameral system. I like that I will say it's not actually reasonable based on everything we know about John to think that he would be content to live in the crowns instead of the north as he said time and time again now, obviously this point he doesn't know the truth of his identity, but he's of the north. He is for the north. You will never stop fighting for the north also when he first approached king's landing he was like why would anyone wanna live in this dung heap and what he needs. Of course is a vintage shea sales pitch. Yeah. Cities made me wanna fuck the country too. I think. Here's my counter to that. What is John's brand unhappiness true? So he's got three burdened by something. He's to be burdened by something and what better than living in a city fucking hates that he moved to because of his girlfriend. It's right. It's perfect. It's perfect Westerlund. Yeah. Tyrian strain ruling Casserly. Finally, finally, the birth rate that Taiwan so cruelly denied him with Jamie and the kings yard not able to inherit obviously Jamie is not in the king's guard anymore. We know that. But at the moment in time in which Taiwian said to Tyrian that he would rather be consumed by MAC, it's then let Tyrian turn Castro his four time to get some vengeance for that. Yeah. Tyrian reunited with his horse. Shoot would be really something. He wouldn't need to use the worship. But just knowing it was there. I love the night or shoot. My father unbeknownst to him. I install the horse shoot. The rich similar reasons. Here come up against a cruel father. Let's put Sam at horn hill. And also like the tiles are finished there's nobody else. So would have to be the tar Leigh's who are, you know, one of the strongest houses of the reach they guard the borderlands there. Out. You know, be great Gilly young. Sam walking really stilted leeann dresses around the reach no more dresses. She can wear what she wants. The storm lands. Another one. We agree on gingery as we've stated before the breath, Ian, house breath. Ian and the storm lands are. They've had some experience with bastards ruling. So is fine. And he could be legitimized. Sure easily but doesn't have to be. Yeah. Take your father's. We'll see door interest was hard. I've a couple of left field ones out here. But I struggled with this one Braun because he needs as we know a castle he keeps bringing it up needs a girl needs castle. And he really seemed to take to the Dornoch climate the Dornoch women he loves saying about the Dornoch minutes wife. He's tasted the door Schwantz wife. He's had the titties on the bars. Do well down there. I went with a book character Edrich, Dane, the young Lord of star fall. I think it has to be adorned person. Because Dorn is very listen. The history of Dohrn will tell you that they're not fond of outsiders Bron while the enter I should say, I interpreted this this show characters only. So I think too I think limitation of actual Dornoch. Can I think you'd have to they we'd have to like invent some living Dornoch character to be like, okay? Tying you run it or something tying RIP. But still I just don't think the doors would take well to an outsider ruling over them. How would you feel about putting the rocky down in Dorn? How do you think the door would feel about it again on the show? They're basically are no during this. Yeah. Now, they never got the Dornoch army that they were sailing here. Because of course, they were too busy trying to fuck. So there's an army sitting there, presumably, right? I think the doors should be like, so let me get this street. You're gonna take all the savage horse people, and you're gonna have them with here. That's a tough look for us. I think again, they would have to be some native Dornoch person that does not exist in the show right now for to really work. Down there, unless it's just you're just be like fucked Orrin and let it all fall apart, which basically the show does. So might as well vacation spot. Definitely it's the Palm Springs. The Palm Springs of lesser. It's hard if we're eliminating book characters to really think of a good pick here. It's really really tough. I mean, we know that in show Landover and had other children to sell so. Yeah. Rise another sand. Snake- snakes any sense Knicks. We never met on the show. Yeah. Went up. Let's do it. Let's get a sand snake in there. We got a bonus one for you wouldn't be a binge mode without a Harry mention Shoshana Benjamin. Yes, when you to put in charge of creating the Harry Potter TV series. Thank you, Shauna. Please send letters to HBO Netflix. Amazon, Hulu, crackle, etc. Will you stay completely faithful to the books or like with GIO t make changes? Yeah. Interesting question. So obviously key difference is that the Harry Potter series is finished. Whereas a song and fire remains a work in progress. But philosophically when you think of this we've remain faithful in large part because as you said the story is finished it's been completed into end. But I think that there's a lot of areas there to flesh out. I think of you know, the two prime ministers there's areas like that where you can kind of flesh out the intersection between the mogul and the wizard in world in ways it really add to the story. You know, the man's Yuka says idea you have listed here of the marauders. Let's go back and delve into the marauders. Let's go back and delve into the first whizzing more. Let's like let's gin that stuff. There's a lot of areas around flashbacks that you can really flush out this story. Yeah. I agree. I think for some thrones book lovers. One of the struggles. With the show is will there. Things I love that are missing. And I don't think we'd have that problem in our Harry series. Everything would be in there, and then more or and obviously not everybody feels positively about this. But the fact that JK Rollings continuing to create I think we would be able to account for new information new additions to the canon and continue to build and flush out various aspects of the world in tumble bottle episode. Fuck. Yes, L A. And I think another thing that we would be able to do much like we've seen with the curse child. Production is to diversify the set of characters. Yeah. That would be sincere goal of ours. But hey, folks one way to find out what we do. And that's to let us do it higher. All right friends. We must pod together now or die. That's what we keep telling is gleaned Zach cram are indispensable producer and researcher. We hope that you had as much fun as we say that you're as excited as we are to continue this journey. You'll join us again next week for the final preview episode before season of throws lightly. Terrifying. My stomach clench on comfortably while saying that out loud until then remember this goes beyond loyalty, this is about survival. This is about binge mode. Ron for Toronto bowl. Jeep from clean water wash. Do you get new clean? Stink can Festa. Close quarters heat king trending. Put it a rose rosewater the bowl. Sponge off, Regina. For stretching.

Jamie war Danny John Davos Sam Tyrian Danny Danny John Giora Leando murder Sam Tyrian Padre pain Joe Johns Jason Isaac Spotify NBA Spain commander Sheila Twitter
767 - A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms | Game of Drones S8 E2

Sleep With Me

1:45:10 hr | 2 years ago

767 - A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms | Game of Drones S8 E2

"PR ex. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls in friends beyond the by nary. It's time for the pad caster that sounded that tone sounded familiar lake, but I'm the podcast of the barely remembers patrons. If think that's like a call for train or something train to slumber town because it sti- for sleep with me, the podcasts it puts you to sleep. And if you irregular Sner a huge help if you could just pay attention for a few minutes. These are the ways we keep the show a going and then when your hand hits the fridge tomorrow sleep with me podcast dot com slash sponsors. Excuse back is free for everybody. Thanks wanted to thank and get another Paul who supported robinhood went to sleep dot robinhood dot com. Signed up for free Rahman hood account. Got a free sack amazing as sponsor really really makes it easy to commission free trades. Learn about investing sleep that Rahman hunt dyke com. San up there. Get your free style. Jack. Thanks, Paul mystery. Bard who works so hard on this show. W. Scotty gen around. Mystery bar. Commissioned at. Song? Tell me the story. You see the kindness shines straight on. Listeners phone Facebook. Stacey Sarah, Laura, Julian, Jennifer, these you're gonna rain export scooter drian burgeon support the sponsors confined. Thank you. With me done gun. And we're so proud. Dan, be part of nine fail presents. With the thanks Mr. bar, Emmett dearest scooter on Twitter and Instagram twin stir still pending application. They're still pending and don't forget you can listen in your Smerch speakers. You can even tell your iphone a phone name. Subscribe to sleep with me podcast or any other smart because you say, hey, split sleep with me gas, and you say smart speaker said asleep timer for fifty minutes ninety minutes, eight hours as thanks. And would you say we get on with the show? He you up all night tossing turning nine racing. Trouble getting trouble stings fully. We'll welcome Stanford sleep with me the time. Yes. Shoe to sweep move. We do it. The bit story you need to do is get in bed or not to press blam to do the rest wouldn't going through temp to do is to save. Place where you could set aside whatever's keeping you awake. Whether it's a thought of feelings if physical sensations is the stuff, you're feeling physically experiencing, emotionally or cats blading work. You know, remind case ruminating. Heavy on the room, which you do. Just as it sounds like something you prefer like was net. ROM, obviously. Anyway, what a minute do. Whatever scheme to wickedly, take your mind that it could be any anything, you know, a here to keep you company to distract you issued drift off into sleep away to do. It is say this nice safe place Linnea room shows on a time. You got gotta long long landing strip ear descent into a what I'm gonna do a semi voice across the deep dark. Knight them us loaning, soothing creaky dose to tones pointless. Meanders superfluous tangents. I'm gonna take my time. You know bear, you know, I'm gonna get a warm up Aniko will down combined into one one layer parallel layers, you say, well, there's a warm-up layer in bad gas to cool down layer all the way through so. Yeah, I mean, basically reason to make the show's been there. A lot of the cases that you know, I might not know exactly what you're dealing with. But I do know have feels when you can't fall asleep. And you gotta get up or you wake up. Were to deliver morning woke up ahead early alarm for weekend recording this on a Saturday. In. Then I woke up a half hour before that. And I said what the heck? I said a rip off to myself. So I know what it's like. Whatever your case may be am here to help. Now. If you're new couples things to know will will ride up front kind of front issue short Shirley show shirts off with business. That's how we keep a show free for everybody in. Thank you everybody. That participates in that. Then is there's an intro the interest about twelve to fifteen minutes or so in it's kind of a big part of the podcast. But there's no lake FU shirt listening regularly. There's no wrong way. Even initially. You just wanna make it the easiest way if you if you really knew, but like some listeners skip the intro, maybe two three percent some most small sleep during the intro Lotte listeners use a discounted their wind down as their cool down there. Cooling cooling down in warming up to bed the same time, you know to to descend into sleep. So the intros are a little bit different than a normal podcast intro were it'd be like, yeah. Yeah. Ham 'em Hammy pod. Cool coming at you in. Here's the show. Like, I do that part. Then I do is set up for the show. That's it's part of the show in podcast is not work for everybody. But for almost like ninety five percent of people that it does work for which is a pretty good amount of people. They say took through two or three tries. So if you want if you're a poor give it to retry because I'm just here to help you fall asleep. Now, if you've given it two or three tries to and you. Okay. Well, this is in for me, but I'm still looking to way to fall asleep. Or you're already saying this is definitely like suits. You know? Not sure you and I are cut from the same. You know, co off the and I wanted to say that you more intensely. Go to sleep with me, podcasts dot com slash knows ANC you there's resources there have or other things is some things that I listened to in other asleep podcasts in then there's also some options if you say, well, scoot, get to tell you how feel there's options in there. So that's if you give tries because I really just want to help you fall asleep. I believe you deserve a good night's sleep. They believe deserve a life where you can flourish. So you feel you're rested. And you can do that attend. Of course, you deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Now. Couple other things. This is one podcast. You don't need to listen to you, probably you may figure that out are ready. You can kinda listen, you can totally listen. Either way or whatever in between, you know, to turn it down to a murmur or listen to my every word is the reason I make the show is so you need to listen. But if you do need to you need company in the deep dark night, I'm here to the very end to to keep you company, and that's kind of how to kiss or somehow by me, keeping you company no strings attached, you could fall asleep or if you don't I'm here. Because like I said I've been there as no pressure. Listen, oh, icus says, no pressure fall asleep either. That's why the shows are now or that's why you can listen back to back back to back in. Yeah. That's why cast is free. So you say look we have supposed to sit. Well, okay. And don't understand this. That's most people's reactions the first two or three tries. What is this? What the heck who in the what's it is he still talking about? What's it's is he talking about house? It's now now is he transitioning to use the end. Word because he started to think about seabreeze astringent is he going to go back to the joke where he used a like, whatever the thing we call the Latin verbiage shit too. Yes. A ham. Strange strang. Let's strike stringent. Strange. Strange a strong a streets. Maybe it's east or east e-. So sees that would be a streets, which I think is strange so strange, assuring strung. It would like that'd be like in some sort of home with the in the nineteen eighties home where skin-care came I say, well this I don't know if you're gonna live under my roof. It's skin care. I you know, that's a homemade I've never lived at lake. I mean like it where it's a first she say, I mean, it might be a good thing. But I'm just gonna talk about goofy parts of c. You know before you, eat your dinner. Don't worry Papa I've estranged I've estranged a stringent estranged estranged is the okay, okay. Sweetie pie. Okay. Junior create work on the astringent. Oh astringent. You might not know what I'm talking about. I barely do. It may not be relevant. I think it is a lakes to there's this thing called stringent. Right. Maybe I don't think ever purchased which as little and say, okay, that's probably like needs to be renamed though. I'm pretty sure it's exac name of pet, but. Now, just meet now see this is where I go off topic the nam imagining being at a party like dance when we were at PK's with the name Hazel was at its peak in your at a school dance. And you say way would've taken you like which as oil in. Then everyone will like that's true, though, if you were added dance, and your best friend, you say you kissed which as well. It like you'd or which of the Hazel. Did you kiss? I guess it would be another way. But it's pretty formal to save your best friend. I guess you you like, you don't know. How you do? We Hazel who you could say that's pretty funny without even witches joke. He'd say Hazel who Hazel who we were was that in one of the Seuss books was Hazel one of who's who. I I think that would like. I don't know if we ever had peak Sousse, but like rigid sewage lake maybe Hazel. I know someone may be listening. And then maybe like when you wake to let me wouldn't win was one was Hazel popular. I believe my eyes are Hazel never made this OC with which as any what I was trying to explain the fact that stringent ease this thing you take lake in. Here's the thing. Perfectly honest. I don't think of a stringent my skin since last time joked about this on the podcast. I mean, it's a winner here when I'm recording this. So it's like that using multiple layers sunscreen multiple times a day. Just you know one morning moisturizer. But astringent is like when you take this thing is he like alcohol, or which as well, which I don't know is that suspended alcohol in then you in usually has been nice blue tint, the Seabury. That's why like seabreeze series and sleep with me two things you'd never associate with one. Another that go great together. It's like fresh breeze seabreeze in sleep seabreeze, sleep. With me addition, noun purple. Seabreeze folks, actually, no fence usually get the store brand is a, you know feud over they really up charge for that Sieber. You know, that's extra breeze. Seabreeze formerly sponsor of sleep with me. Now, we're not speaking. Okay. Where was it? Oh, so then you take that you put it in a cotton pad or a cotton ball, and you wipe your face with it. And I think it decrease we've talked about this along time. Decreases delays does your face eight. I don't know. What delay never gotten to would lazing really is a seen it on shows in pretty sure I've done it before. D glazing the Hazel to Glaisdale. That's another. Character was another. That was one of the great lost Seuss books. Hazel, the Glaisdale. Choose wisest snoop loose snoop from snoop snoop town as well. Delays though. Might be hit might be a new code name for me is scoots changes named Hazel bolaise UIL in no one in the world. Even the greatest experts in words in even with the Helen sell from the Aleutian, est e cou-, he couldn't even figure out how to spell delays. So without making laser in there because then you would never be able to say is name without getting even further distracted just basically sending us to clean your face in. I guess so that took me so off topic that we don't really get to spend any more time with this wonderful family. We just met who's top priority. Skin-care you good question. Now, I can hear you asking it. No, no one in that families dermatologists. They just have like their priorities. So they could be skin-care. You know, doing good for others kindness in maybe it's like an accent generational association. But in this case is too good one. They said well when when my skin feels good I feel good. I do good mate Willie say what belief system sleep with me asleep. A belief system formed around sleep with me in twenty twenty two you know, after scooter changed his name, you know, move to snow fill form snoop fill in. What was what was the belief system based around sleeping? It was like some sort of sleeping. You know? No is based around skin-care in kindness. That all Kanus comes with kindness to your skin largest, you know, large organ on your body in it. But probably though some say the tongue would I don't know if that's true in my case. It's you're right. So whatever Oregon produce sad air, thanks brain. So anyway, your new those are good example of how the show will go from here on out a talk about one thing. Then I'll see something over there is then I'll be sitting down at a dinner table with the family who's, you know, who's got the priorities in order. We can't say anything else about that. And you know, dental trick strip to snooze snoop town or whatever. And all this meandering is. So if you need me here, I'm here to talk to you. But if you don't need me you just need me nearby. You could just drift off in any of those turns think that's tonight will after the intro. I think I started going off topic when I was explaining the structure of the show. But after intro will have some business, then we'll talk about games. Thrones ZIM talk about some stuff that came up and game of thrones zinn have visit from Tom and impounds, then we'll have prayer sealed gods in the new and then we'll have the thank you. Good nights. So really long episode end. Yeah, sets it really here to help take your mind off stuff and keep you company. Appreciate your checking the show out. Appreciate your time in a strive urine. And I work very hard because they want to help you fall asleep. So thanks again in dank sick is here's a couple of ways we keep your show a going he own if you heard me talk about this earlier in the show around another upset, but I'm not sure if you do do you listen to sleep with me on a regular basis, Indiana count on it just like other services in your life. Like when you turn the lights on expected light stick mind when you turn on your TV, you expect your shows to come up. Or go to net. Flicks. You expect it to play right or when you pulled Spotify. You say, okay. Wanna listen to the song? And I want to listen to it. Now. I don't know if you sleep with me like one of those services rec-, I'm gonna get in bed. I'm gonna turn out the lights some of breast play in a no scoots will be there. And that's my job is to be there and keep you company in. I don't know if you're gonna see the relationship that way, I guess the main difference between the power cable and those other services that they're paid in sleep with me as free way, we're able to keep assuming freeze bay people that support the sponsors, it's leaving me podcast account size sponsors in those who choose to rebel rebels with a cause I call and because they say, I know the podcast is free quote on quote, but I'm here to keep it free. I want to know when I turn the lights done or when someone else says or you know, proverbial lights with sleep was me that it's going to be there. And I know scoops supposed to work. Into a lot of other people do in those. So if that resonates with you, a the great thing is you're also in if you're in a position to do that support your show five ten twenty bucks a month. You do get some rewards and stuff with real reward is the pride when you flick the light on when you first moved into your first place pry felt pretty good. He said man, I'm paying for this hour in this sense. You're paying naturalist for the lights in your place. But I other people to get a good night's sleep. I really appreciated in sodas they and every sheet all the rebels who believe in value for value. So if that resonates with you go to sleep in bad Gastein, campsites patron and sign up if you can thank you so much. All right, everybody. Welcome back season. Eight episode to a night for all night for all seasons. I wanted to say a night of the seven kingdoms a slight pun. I believe maybe even unintentional knows. No, I think they do anything unintentional. Maybe recall more of a low level pawn or say, well, we didn't we just wanted to call it that we, you know, the pun was an inconvenient pun. That was actually like a L gore was trying to do like a like his own satire allegory or in. He did a book called an inconvenient pun indicate see because just because it is. Okay. Let's do we start here though. So the episode served with about the same opening maybe late last gets shown faster did notice a lot more details. Tree spotting up around winner. Phil was cool. There's a body of water around king's landing grabbed a bunch of kings Aning maps, we can look at later. But I still think it was able to identify you know, not the bay. Here we go actually, it's a maybe a misdemeanor rewind because right now, it's the king's landing part of the opening here we go zooming in. Yeah. There's. Maybe it's just a reservoir unless there's a base in inland bay think. So usually getting there's just about your water. They're like other than the bay. But then again, I don't know if the opening there's all the water. So anyway, I may be confused. I mean that would be nothing new, but he did want to say rid of right? This is my fourth time through that bestowed end. So I know like I think like sure we would have wanted to like to be a stop episode. But I think this is a very necessary Assode. NFL Blake apart of the you part of closure in a part of. Like, so I can feel people saying we know anything. It's also part of being able to binge so much television the made of made it more difficult saying wool, usually. I mean think about how nice air to say. Well, no now, it's time to go to bed like episodes over go to bed come back next week. I do appreciate that very much in appreciate having to wait because it builds up the anticipation, and then that all the next door upsets are super sized. So. In. There's a lot to like, especially I mean, really getting getting a lot of brand this season, which is in could've been it. Could've gone for hour and a half version of this episode to be honest, edges Kosovo's, you know, couple of conversation said it would just like to sit in. Okay. Let's see Jamie opens with Jamie can is a doll or serious, look and his face. In the opening lines. The for the fifty percent of the opening line. I said this is good for me. His achilles says when I was a child my brother would tell me a bedtime story in. And that was it. I said, okay. Well. Doesn't work and sleep with me coli see that she saw get Jamie. She says where's your army now? There's a lot of she lied to me as well. Everybody says that it's twenty thousand. Ivy leaguers in the golden company, not all guaranteed Ivy. Leaguers, just like the elephants weren't guaranteed. Usage a week early says, what do you mean we Tyrian candidate shut? Santa says. Yeah, I don't trust him either. As in really liked to grounded the scene wasn't some sense in LA Kazeem says I'm not gonna pal jobs, but it doesn't say with an arrogance. He says it was the truth says, you say did this for my family for my house in my family think he says I and you think about remember time when man, holy moly. And then brand says the things we do for love is that Jamie. It goes beyond loyalty this goes beyond loyalty. Neil extent brianna that comment and then a little time because bringing stands for Jamie says he's a main of honor, which are pretty sure there was an episode called man without honor in. Then I talked about that song men without ties don't dress for dinner by Paul Westerberg. Yeah. But maybe maybe didn't hear that. But that's a sewing men without ties. Don't dress for dinner. It's a Friday frozen pizza thing. Something soon as soon as in. So that's that's a song in that. That was an episode ulcers lots of wood by the fireplace, which makes sense real. This is the same room this question. I don't the answer to if this is the same room there in later. I did get kind of look up some. Stiff about the layer lay out of winter fail. Sanchez says so bringing you vouch for Jamie. And then cool. He gets overrule over a census. Okay. Try if you trust him, I trust you in Kalisa, give Sansa look. Water for the north. What does that mean? Water for the north. You look like you're thinking with Imran or can you get a oh Ecclesia gives is excuse warden to north. What are you doing? You're thinking about something else. He goes you thinking about IGA again Egan. He goes, well, we could use every person we could get she says fine grey worm has a long face off with good, Jamie. It gives them a stair is he hands over his stuff in the Queen stance. So then everybody stands this meetings over it was so awkward everybody goes off tries to get like doesn't wanna talk to the Kalisa in said holy high school green stands. We all stand Bill. It's all awkwardly leave. Very soon. So awkward various, but his hands in back. It's shirt who whatever and branches sits and stares at Jamie, which was great. I mean, it really it's like hard to acting like because he's he's staring at this point. And I know easily sit daring in this legs in Wyk way. I don't know. In a lot of people are talking about how great brand is the season. But I literally can't get enough especially after the last of so in this one. Of course, you say scoot, you there's only four episodes left. I say, okay, give me thirty. I mean thirty percent brand. I mean, it doesn't matter because I'm working I'm Alan show. So three had raven. Let's see L find. Hey polic-. Gotta give the Tyrian cheese and find another hand if I need to Joran Veira, sir. There like awkward and says wanted you to might be in charged soon, and we see forge in its at stuff again is working hard a sustained that dragging glassy shown off some neck little, you know, I said, we'll cow sweating you. He is like he's in a he looks like a bail ask you put or a little he's got a little bail thing going in Christian bale, and they do some nothing like flirting over a city. If you've never if you've never flirted Anna bed of obsidian, you may have because you who knows what the geology under where you know. Many people may have learned it on a bed of the city obsidian above it around crust of obsidian. Also obsidian crust. That's a new thing and working on or tell you something against doesn't. Again. His realize how tough aria is shoots the Dietz and she wants very specific in forward vocabulary. In he gained doesn't cut it. He's different. This is different. I think this what he says area says only show you some tricks. I've learned from many she some of the many many faces in issues worse may I think I put the cicis. She goes yo worse my weapon. Fool look another sort of look she she gives them the great, look she goes you keep getting my weapon going in. She walks off his school look. Still she said, where's my weapon fool, but it's cool. Look by our. And then we have one of the scenes they wish was an hour long brand sitting by the tree in Jamie. Roles said demanded his beard get a beard. Get more handsome enforce it like four minutes because they say look captain America like captain, west roasters show kept kept tinged, whatever just like was a beard all barred question. Mark question. Mark. Dan means Brian to. Only only turn on some coolest captioning air to see right now. James galley, some leather armor on. Sorry. You won't sorry. Then. I see what they're talking about. You'll he's sorry. He goes, you weren't sorry. Then in but says, you know, this is the lake we're on a journey, coal Blyth, man. And we've we've changed and he goes by Wham now brain hysteric anyway him because what if some something else now, nj is your name -gree amigos. No ninety agreed. Anyone really disagree scene? In. He's a little bit more expressive, but never expressive facially. But his voice is everything you need to know. He says what about afterwards? And he says I do know there is an afterwards. Nice said we'll cow. Keep me in mindfulness city, not angry anymore of Tyrian walk into castle. Lots of preparations going in. Jamie, Jamie rules. Well, here we are again say up together again. As somebody spits. They say, what do you think of our new Queen and? I underestimate is, sir. See I always baby for real s- say. Yup. And Jamie says she was always good at using the truth to tell lie. Any talk about being fooled. And then tearing will you never fooled by though you loved her new she wasn't you loved her. Anyway. End is a really great, Jamie. Look there. Thank only see it's hard to blame. Her watch. Underestimated Tyrian says as our babies for real. I believed her. In. Get some nice rubies and the hilt of his sword. Now. It's real, okay. Show's been good telling truth, the wouldn't be too hard on yourself. Shoot me. Jamie says tearing truth tells them right out of that. This when he says it's just trying to see loved her. Anyway, that's good luck. You speechless say goal-bound ramparts, or whatever this is the whole full circle thing. We're here winner. Phil just like when we started. Tyrian starts to make a speech. Andrea Jamie, Alexa, off to look at Bryanne training. They exchange a look and see Padres. Make momma proud. And he says, sir, Jamie lady being Umbrian embryos going to be in charge of left blank of you know, y in in. She says why you being so nice man throw me off any says, it looked to serve under your command. Jamie Lanna steer, sir. C starting at five have no idea. It was I mean to. What does that mean? Jamie Laister, sir. See staring at by. Oh, Kalisa polic- staring at the by circle EC. In Georgia comes into thriller. Forgive me, really, see. And she says what you know. She would you do. And he goes, no, no, no. You says ran robbed ING you're watching fire is by the way as jealous Tyrian. But you're right. He's smart or give him one other suggestion. And I don't know if this was like is a lead into the next scene or a mystery. But after watching a few times, they said, I think it's just a lead into the next scene because one other suggestion. And then it goes to Lord breastplates meeting with sands. They're talking saints of like was rocking. Cool. She I said shouli like David David Bowie in a musical about Searcy. But. You know, there's only say we can do dream about. Inigo? Let's talk around things for a little while for family are complicated. This. She was Sansa said isn't a police. He says are certainly have been in a pro girl like, you don't even know yet in Kalisa hands has some councilman suit. Then she was your brother in. He says, oh, you he loves you. She goes, oh, I love him. I changed my goals began till I met John snow Gelinas annoys usage issue who in whom. And they kind of go back if worse. It makes John's to she says he's only person it's been true to me other that true to his word other than someone else. And he said who is a Giora or a count Rogo or somebody else like some secret person. Let's see because he said what about like there's other center care. Well. And then she says we're about the north. Yo she goes what about the north? She goes to you know. We're not you know, if you're on the iron throne. We went to north and be free in Kalisa takes her hand back. They're holding hands during the complimenting phase. I don't know if I like that town more or less than that may stir shows like. The newer macer rougher Serie season. So I haven't learned his name. And he says, by the way big moment. You know, you remember, I said, I interrupt you. If any anybody any great joy show up or a Hisense awkwardness thei- here he and Bentsen knee right away. Is she says why why are you with her if you'll have me? Think. What are you? We're why with your sister moral as sister? Okay. Yes, why you with her? Well, green saying lady seeing if you'll have meal defend the north a me of cheered up here. There was owner. Bree I teared up with Rianne me teared up twice episode. Maybe this Zid because they do have pretty legit hug. In this one didn't seem to seem to like on unite, but nam even at the best use of the unites time he serving soup. He, you know, he ends out soup in the truth wisdom at the same time. So he's don't out suits soup to some new recruits. They forgot to get the bread. They only got their soup. And I said Deutz like you're gonna need their bread like specially. So then we see Gilly for the first time. I think we I am I saw daily. Nice Gill, a pretty sure Gillian the only night of work together. There's this nice moment was issue younger going young woman. NFL it was kind of a nice callback to Charene for for for the onion. Knight him Gilly to work as a team to win her trust. There is a in this episode a small lake deer sea level. Dear e level threat of like, I know it's better for you for everybody in Gillian unite gonna go counter that they said, well, what do you wanna do in? So there's a lot of times everybody's like RH sold by the forge master forgot his name saying, you know, kind of goes through step aside. But. Oh, speaking of which this next scene. Happy ono. This is a return here horn. Did you get interrupted? Let's see serving soup and unite work. But then we one horn is to return of. Ed is his name Deloris, Ed or something Essilor? In torment and barrack done dairy in and they say, they'll get big hugs except for barrack gives Jonah handshake in. They say would up and they say kit number well was ninety more. They say everybody's working the night king now, and they see. So what time they say before sun comes up tomorrow torments Isabey woman here, and we have more perhaps more planning they see too many people to deal with the still steel at the Nike ING that plan. It was nice map. It did take me. If you rewatch us to see. That they kind of like they have almost like these scrabble type tiles tour present, the new whatever they wanna call it. The northern army night army, whatever. See? He'll never yes. He will O'Brien says would if I try to catch the night king. He wants to read raven a human history machine in they talk about forgetting or being forgotten in the how they has to do with being a human memories. Not Sam says memories, but not from books. It's you brain brand says is Mark me on meet him together would with the N cassia needs redemption. Original chances iron born in this one. I guess it was a little bit of stretch. I mean, I mean he can't see this like it's a little bit. But I mean, it could be misdirect. But you see the end zone far. You've you know, you're great. I I mean, I love the end. But you say historically when we put responsibility in your hands. So I guess this would be his full shatter. Dempsey to say, see, the stemmed mess. It up. I did rescue my sister. So this is the superstar. We're talking about a iron born, I didn't know if the iron born have some resistance or something. Davos in church elating mo- with Syrian. But they say, you ca-, Lisa's any jer mind, man. And then they said what about dragon fire and rain cysts? No one's ever tried to that Ormuz at least role together. Somebody says let's get some rest if versa job was at Davos. Then there's awkward again. Everybody leaves awkwardly Janet voids kalihi. See lease out just leaves us again with the scenic watch for an hour plus of brand in Tyrian alone. In. He goes you need some help rain goes. Nope in tearing because you've had strange journey. He goes stranger the most. This is really a we'll have the. And they say, you know, he was what happened? He goes long story in this way, the editing work to it was natural Greek as he goes will. I get don't we have all night. Or I thought this tearing pulled up a chance to tell me man, we got all night. What is this e MS Marlowe dismissed, oh, the Sunday gets dissed by ignorant northerners? Great room says does north egos I'll work here for you know, a stretch, but other than that we gotta get outta here. Where should we go is? She says NAR babies. The beaches in north. Any goes, we'll be w protector like that song protectors coming home or whatever. This looks like human bore. That's what Mahan ring says to a cumin bore will question, Mark. Maybe cinnamon bacon and hose, his says within Sam in Jan? Human bore will. But Sam says to John did you tell her he goes now waiting for the perfect time? Yeah. Then Ed roles of he says what? My boys. In the says in now or watch begins which is cool line. Maybe dish had enough breathing space to. It to be at school Estado. No, everyday think there's a necessary one just cool end. Then let's see. Oh, they say why don't you take a break in a void all the action. He goes, I'm tough, man. Dell was thins walkers. You need me. He end. Then they go through like goes through a quick, you know, circular of their journey. Hey, talking about all their friends in the whole night's watch and say just just us three end. Then we have it's hearing, Jamie. Jamie's now in his full armor. So's cherian. In there. Just hanging by fireplace. Drinking wine us remember when again, they get like a little bit more. Geez. Remember, we I hear you were a Golden Lion. And he goes yours. Sleaze was also simple in. He goes to miss. It a interior, of course, to the perils of self betterment to in Bryanne in the odd. Come in this lady, and she was looking for some place warm, which made me think of the rooms in winner. Phil. In bringing great because they say, well, how about some wine? She goes now, we get to sleep. Bad goes come on. She goes a half a Cup for pod. Then we gotta go to bed, and they join shoes just for a bit is in Davos comes into get warm and torn and in this was like, a m sure an internet Akane even magin this was really like a falling asleep. The he goes this is our last night in the world. In. He goes, he literally says they say, so he goes they you wanna drink because they got my own bow. You know, whatever horned drink here in. I think I is a little bit of like he gives goes calls Jamie by the wrong name. But that was an purpose. And then he goes he goes, you might not know what this means. It goes buckle your seatbelts, everybody. He goes to this weren't like a special like spectacularly goes about to tell you the weirdest thing over here in eight seasons. And they go to the three I rave no about this. He goes I soon so because if had to be weirded out forever in like. Like, you're totally strange way in. He tells the story from when he was standing in that he was a giant baby. If for three months when he was ten, and then he drinks presume ca giants milk out of horn in. It was a literally like like, I literally said WTI f- muse cool in torments best. But it was it was just so out there. I mean, you know, I mean, hopefully, they'll release the shooting that scene because everyone had a straight face. But I can't imagine a half to magin. It was like that. Everyone was laughing. Then the hounds align around solo aria rolls up in there. All quiet shared drink in OSA hound won't look it or he's gonna staring off. And she goes, what are you doing here end? She was for anybody. And he goes I fought for you once. Incas? She doesn't nobody knows about everybody else's journey. In is not I guess enough time to fill everybody in the I think he set enough anyway embarrassed on their shows up this. We learn I mean, so that moment you say what does this mean for Ari now? Now, we learned that Barrick dairy, and you can't get off our his list. He and he's like inopportune converter because he says, hey, this'll be good time to talk about the Lord of light and all the Lord of lights done for us in hound goes. No sermons. Bre. He and he goes you got me hound. Let's have drink together in Arias like this is out here kinda was like a like a party after a wedding after a wedding reception like the after the wedding reception party like at a hotel or something. In like, you're wandering around from group to group. He and you're like, okay, this one like you get to one like dorm room, and then you have the hound and Barrick, and you said, okay, aria, Kenna shoots. She shoots EROs in gantries kinda watching. In the guy your staff, and you know, they said no need to insert on seer, very quizzes. Gin gin gin. Jay, what's his name gantry Gandhari? He tells her that he's Robert son. In his in. They have a moment in the first aria slowly takes off her gloves early. Doesn't keep county says makes her Ari makes her move lots knots untie. And then fiend. The charts says say strange we are together. And chance. Edano strange together. Fireside chat back to the fireside chat. This this stranger altogether defending winner fell was on or we've all night, you know, all going against him. Then Tyrian he says I hit a good feeling about this. We're in good shape. I think everybody laughs at then interior. Even does a brief lineup because we got to have us. We get Jamie Laister Breen of tar the goes w Tf she's on a night with the heck nj me says, I can fix that. In two or who says I'd know you ten times over in Brienza cheer. I, but is a looker Patrick that says he knows the truth of what brand really wants it. Jamie says Neal is really big emotional moment. I mean for the whole since we've memory of tars in Kennedy medically I think really important. In what assays start the shored? Be brave. Be just defend the innocent. In the now, you're night of the seven kingdoms, sir. Breen of tar the tournaments. Great cook Calama her everybody's cheering. She smut. She was this wonderful smile. I mean, just captured things holy cow. India's motion. Motion residents are mealy stew. She smiles real Giora than we have Giora meeting with the. His his cousin from bear island. I think her name's Liana or something Lee Li NO. And also in the Bank round. There was some little finger shield says some Mockingbird shields. I mean, it gets from river river run end. She goes, you know, I'm more defending things to you. Can't tell me what to do. Any? She was see cousin than Sam gives hurt Spain to. Sir Giora because he says one I can't hold it up to Jan has your head sword. Now, you have my dad sword. Also in Georgia was funny. John's relief way is John related to your mentor. Any goes kind of a man in again to they would make a great team. And he says surgery to guard the realms of men so do like that allow this phraseology or whatever you wanna call. It does get brought up. Now are watch me gains to guard around like I mean at an ice school as he says, see Giora Djuric and has a look like, maybe maybe nad a we're back to fireside chat. They're a wine. Everybody wants to go to bed bit Tyrian wants to keep Iraq. And you know, how this is. They wanna you want Sephardi. Celebrate sir berry and in they see anybody saying than Patrick sings beautifully. Oh, I didn't look up the poem. So but do Weiss and Benny off talked about it. Because this is the last night, you know, said in the and then they brought Bhadra sings the camera. Pains in touches on everyone is we can't get a glimpse of everyone in that room. C N and sense grey worm in Masan days share big kiss. I don't know who else we've see because they didn't write it down. But. It in John's in the basement this they had to put some. Kalisa finds down in the basement was his aunt no his other ants. So is he finds him with his aunt this mom, his girlfriend finds him with his at this. Mas mother, and you say the things with tour. She goes who's this? He goes may mother may. But wants to snuggle first before she finds out. She goes who's Ed girl. That's what I put because remind me Madonna in. Jan tells the truth is he knows it especially about her her was it her brother father. I guess brother right again. I don't know. I get all the names mixed up. That's John's name is. They were in love brand told me and Sam banked it up. Choose your brother and your best rental to this any goes my name. My name is Eggen. But you he goes you could call me a Agee PU. In because this is strange. May you know goes even for me? But he says like taste is true Dany. And she goes if it were what is safe reorders marching sound Franch loads. She they start to talk about what it means for the seven kingdoms and the iron throne, and then there's three horns. In there's marching sound effects. In range deludes means something look said fierce, look, so if you're slick from. Polic- in John in his I'm gonna I'm gonna shout of Tyrian looking and there's music. Into camera pulls out, and we see the long hair to northerners and horses with no names in the episode comes to close we're going to run through some Seth became episode. One thing was king Seleny at Google in. It turns out king's landing in new you could go to king's landing in New York state. Is at the corner of Maplewood drive and lake in Rochester, New York in. It's like like a Rochester's first place where people big farmers rest. Also, the site of the first settlements in some of the river rivers for river port pioneers in in veterans. So if they're stays air now, he might say what river scoots say, well, presumably Niagara river. But I don't know maybe not maybe the Rochester variety at another name the river in Rochester leaks. Nice though as it's a little bit. Then it was it was mainly trying to figure out what this body water was outside. He king Salih ending in it. I will still be a lot of research link to or just like basically like a so this is from awro. I that. That west roast dot org, a Wicky, ice and fire. A and we'll just run through a couple of these notes. And. Leanings. They said, well, they're lake. There is a reservoir. Does anybody else if two does far doesn't purely a lot of people who care though? So there's a lot of cool maps in arda. So let's see king's landing his cabinet seven kingdoms on the crown Lynn's east coast to west rose on black oath, the mouth of the blackwater rush overlooked blackwater bay that doesn't I am. The side of the iron throne red keep is around by wall. Oh here. It is a see two. Well, they'll say schools to Herron hall, though, we're in the movie. Well, maybe that was thing looking at it. The crown Lynn's, maybe it's just the land around there. Do see something presumably cells Aaron hall, they could contain they could be considered a big lake somebody that was it. So I guess let's notable locations instep to miss of flea bottom. Kings leaning street since curses a lot of stuff in here. If you're interested. History allied is from the book. So so you don't wanna get too close. Maybe. Anything about tourists. I mean, I'm guessing see anything in here about two straps. No. So it's over here this next link. Download have access to waiting for it to download right now. So this house everybody do and just sitting here. You know, the internet may may to climb in causes, you know, they don't even have internet and west rose. So this is really supposed to be another map here of of something. I have another map up here. This is you city though. So doesn't do any good? It can't just shows again affor- or three hills there in interesting another good good pitcher. Here's a game room stat fandom that. Cam Wicky, it gives it a major Wiki place. Should see anything here. Seven who largest history? We don't know notable locations. Aloof Inger get some credit here. A street of the sisters street of flower street of silica Steele street of seeds five hundred thousand people possibly with their. Nothing. Not seeing this awake that I'm interested in. Then there's this awesome map at fantastic map SaK, you know, really have time to like look around like look too much at it. Because like the school. It's like a drawn map by this person who runs the site, John. So I linked to really thought it was cool. But again, no sign of the leak, but you know, I'm sure it gets Samir just like thinking at schools should he king's landing than I thought another thing came up as like about fireplaces anything came up a while ago. Is like do they like really like how much this is from Texas by your frame? Dot com. In. It's like a it looks like site but assist to fireplaces, really heat. And you've heard the missed maybe that they don't they don't eat. They send it out the chimney in yet before central heating millions of homes were heated by bussing, nothing but were wood burning fireplaces, they've been used were warmth. The so are they wasters of energy why the change of harsh? They say. Dr crane Berg dresses anti fireplace sale. The one point four million years ago, people domesticated fire. Nope. In fire on a domestic has been. The course source of human thermal comfort the naval to spread a civilization. Etta starting the mid seventies. Concept was challenged to today that people will Americans think that. If our places can't keep you warm rows this is like flatter. I guess so I mean this is a fireplace sell selling site though, how do the fireplace? Get a bad rap. Well, maybe been finances conspiracies is a cost of stored a lot of different other thing fireplace products. Let's see they talk about their great, which are good. Uh-huh. Efficient fire will cause thermostat. Stay off. If it's located near the fireplace other rooms will become cooler as a result causing deduce. The heat has been sucked out of these rooms. And in fact, he was just turned off by fireplace. Another factor to consider CHAI behind. Temperatures radiant heat on the skin. The energy balance houses in his sport nece thermal comfort. They say it does dispel you mis mis myths and misconceptions about the fireplace. There is a rekindling of interest in classic fire. In the savings. He give bring the homeware. Here we go delivering an estimated five kilowatts radiant power ill. If you use a great. So this is great. I mean, we didn't I didn't really learn if it how many how much would it would take. But it seems like for places work, otherwise, I guess point was why would anybody use it? We've tied. It's been awhile since we talked about many face guide. So let me just run through a little bit of it. Is worshiped by the face of people in the free city. Bravo. So. Abe believe it's the one guide. But it's a sin created religion Fowler is believe that everyone worship to same gadgets. Just under different names. Basis. People believe that these guys are just different aspects or faces of the same Gad at many face. Yeah. The temple of faces people in Bravo's house, a black and white in contains large public sanctuary was statues of the gods as a stranger. We're would tree face. Drown guide made driftwood. Lord, light, fiery heart black goat of cour-. The weeping woman of lease in the line of the night. There's also other honor the hooded Wayfair the pale child the moon pale maiden in the Merlin king. Just a little bit about. I don't know. I just want to look that up because. I don't know. Then there was a movie a haven't caught this movie at seen an alley even though it does star Johnny riling Steve Coogan, both who I love came out the end of last year. It shows them. Do about your personal relationship while they're going on a musical tour of the United States in the UK in Ireland in nineteen fifty three in shore, going get another movie made. Against likes about outstanding all your kind of dealing with contract negotiations in different ways in let's see give anything about the move away. Am who's announcing twenty sixteen written by Jeff pope hookah? Collaborated we Steve in film Meena. If film filming place in two thousand seventeen in the West Midlands, Birmingham, Bristol, a Riley had to get you know, a lot of there is a lot of the, you know, make work and stuff it's getting ninety three percent. And in some point four nine on rotten tomatoes in Oakley Jhansi Riley one they get nominated for bunch of awards. Boston society of film, critics suggests he Riley one that in the same DA, go film, critics society wards is that under just a movie looking forward to seeing. Why did I think of it? A can't remember now probably something to do is to one of the many duos in this episode a win. Now, we're back together. Whatever I don't know. One thing that comes up with these military things as flank in flanking, no matter how many times I try to read about it. I never understand it. So I said look w it again in military tactics. Flanking maneuver is moving armed forces around flank agreed. Like is again to cheat. Vantage position over an enemy. If I can't remember the side or the back. Is useful because the force is offensive hours head towards the front, and then they circumvent the front of the force. Can be operational or strategic. It's a basic tactic. Flanking means going from one or two sides an angle to the enemies direction of engagement. It could be a surprise or can be planned in. Part of them. They come out of it suppresses than another part meets the flank. Advances woes is in in has to be coordinated. Most effective is a double in velopment which involves simultaneous of blank moves on both sides. If linking was it. You Chievo usually chief by cavalry. Do their speed maneuverability. Well, more the infantry could be used to fix you know, upright defense against since canceled. H-happening you could use terrain. This brand stuck out of commander can be preventing flank anchoring one or more parts of the line and terrain impassable which is gorgeous lakes mountains or while. Although not strictly impassable woods rivers could be used to anchor a flank. Afford of -cation formations. When terrain is favored on. As long as they have a place. It was the role cavalry to be placed on the flanks with speed in greater tactical flexibility. They could both make and guard against to guard the flank so it's just a little bit about. I mean, if you're like, okay the sack coming out on the side. So I guess that's what it is. Here's another thing. So always can use me. This is from the grammar Lee blog who've versus whom. Whom should be reused to refer to object of a verb or proposition, preposition when in doubt, try this simple trick if you can place a award with he or she. If you can replace us who what about they each year? They if you could replace it with him or her them in her them set. Great or use him are rewriting this who should be used to refer the subject of a sentence whom should be used to refer to the object of verb. Okay. So if you're like most things you realize there's a difference between these broke down to me. You are. You are sure after the reading article, you should know. Okay. So Wendy us who let's see a couple of samples who is the subject who would like to go on vacation. Okay. That's correct. Who made these awesome case? It is correct. Whom is the object of verb or preposition? To whom is this letter addressed do you believe it? How can you tell when your pronoun object? Verbal proposition try replacing it. So I guess I'm even more confused before, but it's generally reading for bad gas too. So I don't know if that cleared anything let's go over to the let's go to Potter more. What do you say read about the night bus this JK Rowling over it powder? More cam. For which is in wizards who are Lucic who's apparition is unreliable or don't like heights or don't like taking four keys. There's always the night bus, which appears we're never a witch or wizard is in urgent need of transportation. They stick out their wand arm at the curb its verbal triple decker bus has seats during the day and beds at night now, particularly comfortable. Drink hot drinks is a bus jumps from one thing. You know, good spill your drink. It's a relatively modern invention wizard. Ing society takes ideas from muggles. There was a need of some sort of transportation acre used safely and discreetly by underage or infirm, wizards end. Is do do do galled make fail who? Came said in eighteen sixty five let's make a bus like muggles have in some wizards. You know, they said it was too mogul like daily private had much of it. JK Rollings says. It was named because night is a homonym of night to their night busters run over all over Britain enormous transport stops Secondly night, gay, and I g as Canete shit coming to rescue protection, and the seemed to or appropriate is a conveyance of last resort into the driver and conductor of the night bus in as a ban or named after my two grandfathers Ernst in Stanley. So this is a little bit Knipe us who so much about night in this thing. Let's see that was going to try to look like what room they could have been in winter phil-. I don't know if they'll be able to figure that out. Let's see if so load. Said well, how many rooms are in winner fell cast till in where was this. Where were they hanging or was everybody hanging when they were doing chill axing, storytelling? So this is a back to AWOL I Afghan Cam the lay out, it's a huge Gasol several acres to massive walls village outside. The winner town is bills of around. Ancient gods would over natural hot springs, water, spike through the walls to heat them. Making it more comfortable than other castles castle has dozens accords in small open spaces in training yards. The inner ward is a second much older open space in the castle. Inside winner fell stands enter castle, which contains Greek keeping the great hall agree. Keep is innermost Gasol stronghold build over the natural hot springs. Composed to grant it. Connected. Armory back over bridge from window coverage. You could see the entire yard great halls us for receiving guests. I mean, that's the meetings raised black form there's a small sept- entered Bill for Caitlyn. The round tower is I keep oldest part of the castle. No longer in use. In there's the broken tower, which was once the tallest tower. I remember this from the first book this is from the book. So you don't know then there's downstairs about our. Library tower. Macy's turret below the rookery in a guard out. Our in winter towns town outside I saw out there that also he said to pub- real quick we probably looked up before. But it's been a while. So said, where's tart, you know, worse? Brian from tars is also called the sapphire. I'll it's an island in the narrow sea on east coast to west roasts, straight sitar. The northeast ship raker Bray who ship Kebir ship breaker bay. It's considered part of the storm lands falls under house star. And they're sworn to storms in it said to be beautiful lake to waterfalls soaring, mounds, high meadows shadowed veils striking blue see y on which it sits. A hidden valley spine mountains. So I just wanted to look it up and give a little thing. And then finally in with the kind of directly saying who's that girl or who said set you? Remind me of song by Madonna from the soundtrack over eighty seven film who's that girl. It was released in June of ninety eighty seven was first single. It was also on a great sips of a greatest hits album celebration, Madonna requested Patrick Leonard do uptempo song captured the nature of her film persona. Amuse video traded different persona over Madonna rather than film character and see who's classic. Can't sing it. Greco response swing that the song was Madonna's best taken her regional musical style. So this a link to that we competed article, then there's one about the film. Maybe teen movie. I don't remember to scribble American comedy directed by James solely written by Andrew Smith and Ken Finkel men came on eighty seven Madonna and Griffin Dunne story of a street. Smart score street-smart kinda like the musical Chicago. I don't know is it a maybe nad. It kinda like she's she's like searching for something. And he searching for something in. It was originally called Sawa slammer. They changed the name. Madonna had had. I think we went. We had a hit movie than a movie that didn't go so good. It looks like this one. Also did not do so good in. But I mean, the I mean the sowings timeless it so I mean, I don't know how like house like they would feel about that. But I mean, not thing concern how perfectly, but you know, you know, what turns out perfectly say here in from Tom and surpass in sake in here. Thanks. Hello everyone. My name is Tom in may may know me as your grace you load a migraine. So Tom in Princetown king, Tom, and I pushed of. I believe I am I of my name. But also as Mikey neighbor to scoot, a roommate of Ray in the Grega, but most importantly, the name I carry with me, I could be last of my name if I still carry the title of best friend of one step outs, say Hello supports mice, ma'am. That's right, surround some not sure what you said. But. Did you say ranch dressing because they it has been awhile since we've had some of that you also bounce. You're not allowed to have any ranch OSA overrated, I'm not either. But, but I'm best friend of bounce the greatest cat who's ever lived, the greatest best friend who's ever been a best friend or recant or any of those things. It's about twitted. You learn to to be such a good best friend. Oh, many. Of course, you eat partly meet spotlight, you which the connection we have in a times, we've shed in in in speaking of which time for a radio show, a which forgot to do setup for because the man is Thomas stem to do your show. And then he treated me like I'm supposed to do everything. So Potman get in here. Ladies and gentlemen, boys girls, French beyond the buying airy ear at a Capetown's. It's time for the good renewing radio show, and I'll some Sunday evening the wind up. It's a hard boiled detective in his hard boiled side kick, and we don't know the name of the show. But by. Or, but but it's time for your afternoon radio. Tom and impounds. Oh, something about a nuance. On Cape Town's radio radio. Best, friends and cats and best friends every way. They'll ri- was sitting with accounts waiting for next case. Shay in two of us was sitting down when we heard tune, now's not strange rusty here. Tune because office is in the back of shying away. Chardonnay noice Kulab underground under street level like it here. The choking of the subway trains. Chugging like styles and dreams juggling along riding on a train while the dreaming daydreaming. Would it was night into night? Was fateful night was the night. And I took a case ah case about tone tone with the father because what happened was we got call my phone rang. And it went bring bring bring a phone thing that doesn't exist anymore really for the most part. But Ray gave me police school phone with. With a face in. It's very nice in wheels into then I found out not all phones have wheels just my phone. And it makes a ring ring ring when I dial it up, but my phone made a ring ring ring, and I picked it up. And I sit Tom and he reached an impounds where here will hardboiled. Detectives correcting cases, what can we do you for shea? You can you do that too. When you talk answer, ma'am, ma'am. Pretty close bounce. Maybe should work Mr. punch. You should watch me of little shea. Okay. Mounts, ma'am. You're getting indicate the case seek person on the phone was a mysterious voice in asked me Tom into head to the side of town that we happen to be in Seta town more adventurous than the vanilla the town would normally the mother would want me to be all at all times. Is the side of the town with the neon lights in the alley-ways garbage outside which you don't normally in my previous life. I wouldn't have had to even see see I told I said, please get garbage out of my view. What is it? I am not to smell these things. But then I remembered I was stuffed shea and I went down the alley. We, and I suppose walk ahead sniffing the air. They you know, when I was coming more just to these things to even the alley way was mucky. Do we walked further down? This alleyway was known to be SE D D Y if we went in, and then we went in deeper into the Annelies where people would grow in such things supposed to in this case, a pall of games king fun times, super happy, fun Pol of games. And we went to in two. Going post and looked up at me. Instead. Woody went to you here to play some games you need some tokens in ice. It we received a call in the noticed in the back. There was an office in the king of games missed a super happy fun times was sitting back there. You didn't Nuys looked happy. No, super low fun any made me a motion with his in. And then the young person at the door said, there's no nice. Sid. Excuse us will be working in which abounded already walked in ignoring new young person. Who's going to say, there's no cats allowed? We headed back to the room. We went into the back office to the super happy fun time games, Paula what on the way, I found the scheme called fascination in the navy was distracted in new few hours went by playing it. You take these balls you roll them gently in as a mea in your trying to get them all lined up in ro in if you do you win. But it says you win a prize in the giant stuffed animals. They thought it would be fun for to sleep unabatedly one giant elephant in in. When when I did finally win. They said, oh, you should win a small prize. If you win again, you could upgraded to a smaller medium prize than a medium price than a medium medium brise than meeting. More. So I played for some time. I did not I wouldn't a pencil holder. So one day that will be used to into they went to the office accounts. Waiting bays napping. Was the king of the super happy fun. You know, king super happy fun time. So what he called himself? You looked familiar to me. Woke him up. And I remembered waking someone else sleeping during the day hard to get him to wake bang wake up. I mean, he had a correct your case. So bouncer started to stretch awoke? It took an Vialli the the king is super happy. But. Sorry. Sorry in did you call the sin for Casey said, they did he said gold you in for an apology, actually. And I said, what do you mean? Exactly. And he said all of this is yours this whole who super happy fun time polish. Yo. I've been keeping it for you and want to give it to you in it looks to the fascination pretty great. What how can you have the game? So Saboun, what would you call that? My rip off is your game. So to rip off into you have you displace needs to be swept up in a don't you seem to mismanaging if I'm honest with you, if I'm if this is the case, I'm going to tell you the truth, the apologized, again profusely sailing me that this was my his legacy to give to me. And they started to remember things. And you know, because I've, you know, I do have learned things from as a pod man in Ray, and Mikey and Mr. pound cinde Grega. So I started to massage it with one thumb I massage the fleshy part of my hand on my other hand between my and my finger, and it helps me. Except when feeling in many complicated feelings flowing through me right knew who this man was a new would disgrace really was about it was about that. That is video games. You could play in your house now. And I told him that in a city. I'm sorry. This is a place for super happy fun times in the past. And I think you need to rethink your business model and also again, if you're going to stay in business, you have to also I'm here, I'm here with. Counts we work in a Bank of Sean Noreen was and then realize oh, no this is different day. Kate be people have video games into Eakin. See the future in a notice to you know, he he he stunk of rye in a sit. Okay. They said, listen man is something we you law. You trying to haunt to keep up super happy fun times. He, and, you know, not all the time about you know, this. So I have a best friend for the times that you know, you everyone has the best friend in good times. Right. Sounds right. It. But it's when I'm curled up in my bed into pounds, hop, son. In looks at my bed in the name in the fetal position in pounds skits within the fetal position within my fetal position though. So when you need a best friend is sometimes you're talking to a man who represents something. And he said what what are you going? And I said, okay, it's tone time. I've learned about this in nice started to sing to him. Because they said it's time had read in the pod Potman rid me about tone, tone, tone, mints with fathers in choice, saying him a song of the future of cades in video games. And in also full spectrum. It was very good to song a saying so pounds even saying along, and we did something like you're seeing the tunes with two cats say it going round. Found in he realized he had fallen back asleep sleep. And I said, well, okay. Well, I've told you now I need to move on to my next case. I can't stay here by two down in which you want for me or you holding onto the super happy fun times that need us. I said I'm moving I'm going back to shot nine was office. Is a cabaret club. To work in my, you know, to do my thing. Good day inch abounds tonight. I walked, but we'll I defense nation. India's in. Like I was really in the zone. I think we had released something's in because of my singing. Also, it was only there was only two of the play as and as if they were required to to. Because of the place will rave pod men and Mikey. I mean, the Greg and don't be win. He to this. This was not for me. So now, I have back into Sean in was office at giant. Plush, they called him Bush elephant in the sleeping in it. Now on the Bill, even it'll int- sleeping. So soundly another case closed. Another chapter that I can move on from a good day. Same for my prayer. Still gets and the new a grown sweetser grown Miller. Smith barky jester hound dog cut. It's scoots here prayer. And and you'll you know, I think I made this joke back in the song on the prayer phone Coron, it maybe I didn't because Cronin rhymes with prayer phone, which actually I think just calls out it usually to smoke phone on my end, or you know, you could go on Cologne. Some comes a Matic. Is going to see if you need to reach me her own call me on prayer phone. The it gives it's kind of like a pager. I send out a page to you in. Eventually may be just kidding Gad's Gad's here unbel- in my servitude. In actually, it's really why I'm calling in is to work on this mission here of continuing a relationship. This is a new thing. And I may not be I may I mean more than likely him the only human being okay gadget how to break this to you. Okay. I may be the only human grappling with this in this particular manner. But I'm sure other people may be dealing with this his wh- like because a lot of people. Let's see how I say this in a more some people changed their belief system, saving, you know, it depending on the stages seasons of their lives. You know, like prayer soon our our glass, so this is a don't know how to breach this. Maybe we've briefed before. I feel like we know one another well enough will so krone you're supposed to be all seeing all knowing. Oh, I didn't introduce you say did the last episode. Okay. Well, there's two issues here. This is why I needed your already blown through one week this week to and he used up it just a breach in the subject some really can have to buckle down. You know? I do like have to work find a way. You're right told them to some part of my brain just shouted it out. I can say. I think those go against the light of the rules in in other belief systems, but we'll come back to that just in the image. Okay. Thank you, sir. Gach? I get you know, believe it or not you have your panel p again mine up in my brain variety personalities in. They all think they're guide said believe me. Anyway, krone which we grow Miller Smith barking jester, there's two issues in hand in the real question sub textually is how how may I serve the I'll make and I'm not kidding. You might be snickering. Here's the situation. Parents parents would away and weeks it like a grown went away and weeks vacation made when you know, maiden wouldn't get back to my prayer texts. Whatever those called a what is this thing called pager? Okay gets. Here's this thing. We're parting ways where we have these official meetings. In a few weeks in want to kind of. Breaking allusions do some of it's based on my own belief systems too. But I guess I never double check to that. You didn't know you're on a fictional TV show. Also don't think none not all you knew that you were fictionalized if from a fictional TV show. That's like a. You know, it's an s thing within a nesting Dow. But before you know before you over react, if I leave your George are wasting Benny off ad that they get enough on their plate. Hopefully, I think they're all working and cool stuff. So let's keep them out of it, especially you are because I don't need lake lesson wanna pitcher his him, chilling, you maybe just off his cap to a friend in new sitting there thinking about the jets saying J E T, you know, this year to nineteen season nineteen twenties are year. I get to focus on all the games because I don't get a worry about it. You know, end then Soma says George haven't seen age. It's a sit down. Did you if you're here this leap with me, Pat? No never heard of it. He's my sleep. Great to. Well. There's a couple upsets he created his own. Okay. So Gad's like you're thing. I believe that there. There's spiritual energy in possibly this is possible is a lot of people say, how can you like heck, we don't believe the same thing. I don't believe you know, they can happen mature it's happened in your experiences, especially those us that are new to this guide thing like. Miller Smith to borough all everybody, but grown will bark. A your real your ears. The oldest all Gad's, but you're also can lake it has been you know, I think you're would ever multi related at how describe it. But it's so the spiritual energy, believe creek. You know what I mean gets? I think you know. So so I don't know who's fall they really don't know who to point the finger at to start with with the sped news giving you and I don't want. I guess I'm pointing Nadda I'm saying, let's point fingers, let's fix things. So there's two past abilities. Hopefully says in news because you you should be, you know, but I guess if you're get you might have other stuff in your mind. It clearly made you got other people on your mind. Who's that me, which is fine? I'm sure this warriors, or you know, maybe the Smith. Believe me, you know, it's fluid maiden. I've had Smith on my mind to in the Miller, you know, pitcher in that grinding grain. Anyway. So where was so if I brought, but somehow helped my belief systems have some have given you an extra energy in brought you in further into existence. Maybe listening go down it gets real resume. Here is to say how how are we going to keep in touch? And we'll hear Raynham would if we have a summer camp every summer you'd be. I think this is saying. Well, let's talk to the Gad's you'll help you figure it out. That's why they called divine inspiration. It, you know, if the channel if the communications channels, not open, you know, the energy can flow in every time. I doubt that couch. Then boom next thing. You know, you're here. I guess this will work out for the next five weeks or four weeks. What are we have together is will plan a summer to camp, then we'll know every year from here. I mean, I don't know. Karen? Would he got in store which cooking up coming down the road, maybe even in two or three planes of existence? Not just this plane. Maybe this is summer camp that exists in all realms. You know, it could all all the way go all the way back in all the way forward. They can be pretty sweet a what to summer camp a great great question. Whoever asked said like, you know, also maiden has never have. I only went to summer camp once because it didn't go good. And it was only for a week when I found out how much cost I I can't believe I didn't like the one summer Campbell into his great deal. But so in also things also into computer camp that wasn't sleepover. But that didn't go good easer. So most experiences with camps heaven great 'cause it went to summer camp. That was overall a good experience with its ups and downs computer Campos. I don't think I was I was asked to leave computer camp. For being outside in front of class was just get to go ahead and crew. Geico God's it's fine. I've talked about it before. So is lose camps have been too. So maybe I don't think I'm going to be camp counselor. What I was saying made no is at least in the movie sets the time when pe-, you know, like, maybe not, okay? I'll just playing with the ads normally in touch with so Gad's let me know this week. What you think about starting to summer camp? Will plan it out. Then we'll have it scheduled every because we cause thing is that's why said don't worry about this fictional stuff. Because it the whole purpose of me Paran in right now is to plan for the future. And also because I accept my humanity. Sometimes. A judgment humanity. But like I said, well shoots you're not so good at keeping in touch with the Gad's unless it's on the schedule. And I don't think I can handle one of those schedules. Lake every Sunday. That's you know, every Saturday. That's all. So this will be good good. It's kinda thing. Here's another another piece