2 Episode results for "Two Thousand Thirty Dollars"

FOOTBALL IS DONE... LETS MAKE $ - 2.10

Bro Bro Bro Bets

24:50 min | 8 months ago

FOOTBALL IS DONE... LETS MAKE $ - 2.10

"Take down the number one sports gambling. Podcast coming out of the patent mac v. incorporate offices football's over. I mean should myself i. I'm telling dick's tony has me rattled stinks. I don't even know how to start the fucking show anymore. I'm tone dick's. That's don't do i talk as microphone about gambling. Sitting next me will be pat. Mcafee runs this place. boss friend. Great gambler sitting next to him the canadian sensation the bearded wander the nuke man himself. Bubble gum pino. How are you doing today sir. Tony lots of slate. Lots of slate today. Tony loss slate. Lots of late nice. Nba slate. Nice college basketball slate. Australian open or you some tennis picks. I may have in ozzy ofen pick for you. Thought about tossing out. Pga tour pick. I'm not ready dot com. Next week i got to try my motto out first weekend. See how it goes if the models doubt in or not i will then continue to give out. Golf picks beautiful. Do you understand how it works. Love good model. Longbow is not with us today. Mitts in the back. Who may what are you thirteen in one. Yeah i'm doing a pretty good gam on the last couple of weeks on. Thanks matt or start off every show now since football's over with little heat check I haven't been great the last few days. I have lost four games though by half a point. That's caused basketball baby. Which is college basketball. Which does hurt Saint john's should've been winners for both of us last night. You just can't do that. I mean you're up to your plus one and a half you have the ball with seven seconds left you turn it over you lose. It just can't happen. Can app nailed can stay. You'd bowling green stink or are they mistake. Straight free throws bad free. Throw light bad free. Throw night last night so i'm not the higher that hot right now so just take that with. A cup of tea is ride. Met going forward for the show. How are you doing right now. Even stephen is there forty today. No there's it's just cut play this week. Really and with the english premier league they rotate their players. So much that. I just don't see any value in it. I mean if you're going to take a dog that's fine but they're even rotating players too. So i did here this morning by the way from your boy. Nigel seely did you. The the man city goalie. Yes for reference to you guys. The man city goalie will be apparently now taking all of their penalty kicks off by and that he's going to take the penalty. Yeah there so if you could get good odds on a piece of money off it was ridiculous you you could dabble but i mean it's just i just don't see with the talent that's on that field goal keeper runs up to take apparently the best the best in fucking tom team well before this weekend. Yeah full slate saturday sunday. Are you still hot and forty saturday. Stunk very bad. Probably my worst day of all time actually really well. That's because foxy jumped on sunday. Four and three. We'll turn it around. He jumped on We are going to be doing some news. News things on hammered down. We're going to have the hammer don heat today. I don't know no no no. It's not today. it's moving forward. I will move forward where we can use. The hashtag hammered down heat. I believe you were going to pick three people and if you get there if you get your pick right maybe some merch your shirt or potentially going to be doing a little roll over parlay Giveaway as well. So we've got some stuff coming on hammered down when packets. Getting here i'll ask him about that. I wanted to start off tonight with college. Basketball and college basketball picks you have. I have one two three four five six six. Admit juvenile college basketball. No i do not watch college basketball. All right let's start with college. Basketball i pick for me is to be mizzou. Plus to mizzou plus to their seven seven two against the spread with equal rest which they do have coming into this game tonight and they are four and two against the spread as an away team which they are tonight. I love mizzou plus the tonight my first three games here mizzou and in the next two are going against the where. The money is telling me to go college basketball. I don't read too much into that. You see li- like you saw last night michigan state minus two and a half went to minus four and a half. They don't cover either of those college basketball is the one. It's kind of like college football for me. Don't look too much into the numbers. Didn't that's what lambeau said to. So i'm gonna trust that zoo to play for me tonight. Mizzou plus to play for you tonight. Yeah they're seven and three their last ten tony. Ten and six against the spread on the year What's your favorite. What's your what's another pick for you. I like boston college as a home puppy. Getting one and a half wake us both teams to innate their last ten struggling but wake forest own six on the road this year. Great fucking five. I love home puppies. My next one is indiana minus four at northwestern North western has lost nine in a row now last night i believe it kentucky team got beat by arkansas who lost eight zero. That was a very good game. Arkansas was up the whole game kentucky came back. Took a one point lead and then arkansas one last shot. But i'm saying like if you've lost eight. Nine road doesn't mean the north western's automatically going to loosen indiana was coming. I believe they're coming off a good win against iowa. Yeah they came back. They played very scares me a little bit. And in the money tells you kinda in this wanna take northwestern but like we just talked about. We're nearing the money situation. As far as college basketball but ignore the money was fine during football season. 'cause like you a lot of the sharp certain and stuff like that were focused on football. I'd like to see if that stay. Stays a trend now that football's over but i'm going indiana modest four at northwestern indiana four and one also. Ats on the road and northwestern like i said his last night in a row go ahead. I'm with you on that. One tony as well northwestern three and seven against the spread their last ten. And then i'm going to go. West carolina moneyline over vm. I oh you're going against the military institute. Yeah i west carolina's just the better team here for me. And it's great value on the money line at minus one thirty. I believe yeah well for sure. I like mississippi state minus two against lsu. I know i know when you look at ken. Palm rankings lsu. Is the higher rated team. If you don't know what the ken. Palm rankings are You can search them and is a pay for website but the front page Is free and you can look. He's got his adjusted offensive rating suggested defense tempo overall ratings and stuff like that ken. Palm is basically God when it comes to college basketball ratings. Lsu is the highest higher rated team in this game. But i am going mississippi state minus two. They are seven to eight s at home. Lsu's two and four against spread away. Lsu's won six. Ats as a pop on the road or sorry just as a dog at one four away as a dog and then lsu is one in three against the spread with four days off. I believe they have a week off going into this game. Someone take mississippi state minus two. Lsu really up and down to so you're to get offense. Bad defense when they played bama bama has slowed down won last night. Didn't cover but data lou the doors off lsu. We both have bama last night. Yeah that one because they were covering. And then i think they won by three. They reminded sick. We had another one last night. We're in the same thing. They did not jones which an excellent unc greensboro at home to furman unc. Greensboro money lines minus one fifteen eighty two against the spread their last ten and firmin's two and seven against the spread on the road. So he with unc unc. Greens borough my next one. And i like this one a lot tonight. Even though the team started off. I believe fourteen or fifteen maybe sixteen against the spread and drake and they have come down a little bit to earth as of recent bud. Drake is coming off their very first loss of the season. Straight up So i like a big bounceback spot here for drake tonight. They're modest nine. And a half against you and i you and is one in six. Ats away owen. Three away as a dog. Drake is seven one. Ats at home. Seven one is a home favourite. So i'd like drake minus the nine and a half in a bounceback spot. After their first loss this season. I liked a good call. You got anything else. San francisco minus three and a half over pepper dine san frans- ten and eight pepperdine eight. I dislike forensic better team here. And i like the spread on this. I wanted to take. I wanted to san francisco tonight. They're one of the best three point. One of the better. Three point shooting teams in the league. However pepperdine does defend the three which scared me a little bit and then what san francisco's been off for almost a month yet. I believe with covid issues. So that scared me a little bit there Do you have any more college basketball. Charlotte moneyline over old dominion old dominion four eight and one against the spread and two four and one against the spread on the road. See like charlotte yet okay. I went around through my picture just just so we all have me do some nba but for college. I had missouri plus to indiana minds for mississippi state minus two in drake modest nine. And a half. You had unc greensboro moneyline minus one twenty san francisco minus three and a half indiana minus three and a half charlotte moneyline minus one fifteen west carolina moneyline minus one twenty boston college plus one and a half and missouri plus to connor. If you could hear me could you please come into the studio mitt. You have any ncaa tonight nba. No i do not watch horrible college basketball interesting deal. Do you have to take a shot at college basketball like that. Because it's slow. It's a lot of defensive. Gonna watch march madness now. I'll watch just watch it. But then if i'm going to gamble on and i'm gonna watch it still wall to wall okay. Kara sumi of nba picks. I got a couple tony. I mean the first one last night. I got killed. He got you got hoes steph. Curry was hot as fire he went. Did you have steph. Curry put forty points in a win for state but he scored so many in the third that he didn't play the fourth thirty two points. But you know what that's what's going to happen. I'm not i'm not doing the Even money picks and trying to get a little bit of money. It will change your bad people. Okay that seemed like a good spot last night for the warriors after the loss that they had the night before against the spurs so that was good call. You just didn't hit these days. Forty it is what it is. And i'm gonna stay on that same road though demont disa- bonus triple double in the pacers to win against the nets. Plus seventeen hundred. The nets can't play defense people. I mean they just lost the pistons last night. Give me a break. I liked that i liked. The hawks mavericks over to thirty two. And a half. And i also like the pelicans bowls over two thousand nine half. Pelicans can't play defense but they also score a lot of points miller on them last night. I'm gonna jump on that over his way. Your point We're talking about it earlier in here. The nets play obsolete zero zero percent. Defense none i believe. They are the worst defensive team in the league Yeah pretty sure. I think kyrie my out tonight. Ou now might be why this i saw that. He might be on the injury report. I don't know if he's out. K d's outright katie's out because of the cova those the free k. d. movement if that is true and kyrie's out then i also like brogden twenty five points in the pacers to win plow twenty malcolm brockton. He's been having a great year. Can you hard as a bonus and brogden to have those points and the win if only you could but you're not allowed to And you know. I bet you could do a same game parlay with brogden over his points. You can't bonus over his points and then the pacers to win so if you want to do the same game they're in you can actually just go right up to to score twenty five points. Malcolm brogdon lost one fifty four and i believe you can do triple double on its own. I'm not finding it though. So probably not but i do. Love the points parlays. I think that's another good thing to jump on here with. James harden harden over thirty points. Which i had last night which hit is possible. One fifty two tonight especially of kyrie's now playing he'll take twenty five shots What do you like tonight is. Well really liked the pacers. There's a as looking online. This morning is at three. I got it plus three. I would just take the money line at this point The nets they can't play defense for shit and katie's out He loves his team. Loves covid his campaign They they don't know it takes us by the way Brooklyn is one in four. Ats with no rest. Yeah and that's spread. Went down to a pulse one and a half now as well. Yeah it is currently at one and a half hour. Cna was about forty something percent of the take accounts but Eighty four percent of the money. Still so i was really on that. I'm also really on the lakers minus eleven. I know lebron's going probably sit a lot. He said that and eighties still out but okay he stinks. I just can't see even being a game. They went to overtime last game. Yeah and it also helped me out on over at dover that one but they okay see couldn't keep up then. I think it's just going to end up that same way. So you're lakers and pacers Yes i am pays money line just because nets aren't gonna yeah You brought up a good thing. As far as percentage of tickets in percentage of money If we want to roll through those real quick the raptors are raptors and whiz. Tonight wizard deli getting thirty four percent of the tickets but sixty six percent of the money. So there's some big money and sharp's on the win tonight at plus five and a half Let's see here the hornets there. Some sharp money on the pacers like you said only thirty seven percent of the tickets but eighty six percent of the money in the nuggets against the cavs. Your mayes nine and a half. They're only getting forty seven percent of tickets but ninety four percent of the money. and then. yeah you're lakers. Forty seven percent of tickets and sixty seven percent of the money however for me nba. Tonight i am taking the hornets. Plus the four against memphis. Hey i can admit that. I was completely wrong. I was judging lamelo off the rest of his family I hear you. I was judging him off of five years ago. When i saw him pulling up from three quarters court i was wrong turns out. He's playing some great basketball hornets. Plus four their seven four away. Ats twelve six. And one is a dog against memphis. Sue has not been great as of late. They have some injuries to go memphis. Plus the sorry hornets plus the four and then on taking clippers mayes. Ten and a half against the t. Wolves clippers coming off to two losses. I think this is just to get right. Game for the clippers and the wolves stink. Now worried about karl. Anthony towns being back home. Not i'm really not kitty cat. I'm not so. I'm gonna clips minus ten and a half in hornets plus four grumpy. What you got for nba tonight. Just call my just college Only call here comes fox Every show we do a segment called fade foxy. I believe he hasn't hit a bet. And god knows how long i believe. He took Michigan state who walked just absolutely crumbled. Yesterday yeah officially. Those ones were unofficial. Last night's ron official. 'cause i didn't give them dumpy to put on the thing but i will say i did lose both bats. I had boston celtics. Plus six and michigan state minus four and a half. They didn't win those beds monday. I had the warriors plus one and a half and then with eight seconds left draymond green decided to grab the ball and just shocked at the backboard from half court made no sense. I lost that. I will admit i haven't want to bet and wild boys that changes i i so i wanted to take utah g- and celtics but i just couldn't do because i felt that figured the celtics would bounce back. After one of their worst performance of the year. I thought they did not turns out. Utah's really get celtics. Stink no no. They're so sick foxy bet on him but also jalen brown. Just got back last night. Tatum didn't start out too hot. If fox bet on the celtics we wrong trump. Do you know. I think utah has the best. Ats team in the nba. I'm not positive you're probably right though. They're very good. I thought this was what they were going to be like last year. Like i honestly saw it. They were gonna come out of the west utah endeavor to come out of the west. Neither of them happened down. Utah's give me that classic team though they're going to finish first in the western conference and everyone's getting back yet but they're not gonna win the title. They had the best record. Whatever knows what's going to happen in the playoffs. Yeah i don't know about against the spread. Tony what they are sixteen and one their last seventeen games there. He seen in seven against the thread. They're the best team against the spread by few games. Seventy six or second and fourteen nine into if they could cover game on the road they'd be up there as well. Who do you like. Who do you like tonight here. We go. I pick the i fade foxy. I like the dallas mavericks at home minus four against the atlanta hawks. And let me tell you. Why first and foremost this game is on. Espn okay. that makes me more likely to watch it. I betting on games. That i actually am gonna watch so other people can watch this one with me. That's also why. I like it on number two. The atlanta hawks did trade luca in the draft for trae young. Luca's not going to be happy going into this game and number three. I actually just like watching luca. He's fun to watch. So if i'm gonna want to group for him. I'm gonna put money on him. And last night lease and actual stat of the mavericks. Have one two in a row. I'm picking on minus four against the atlanta hawks tonight on. Espn watch it with me. The have one. Two zero day are at home So dallas at home is to nine. Eighty s five and nine is a favourite as a home favourite which they are tonight foxy. They are one and eight nice. Dallas food was voided. Douse their offense. Just hasn't been as good as it was last like. I believe there are number one last year. And i think they're like number fifteen or something this year and i looked at their standings. I thought they were a lot better team from the bottom and dallas are not very good. So it's a little makes me a little nervous but that's gonna change you know why because the. The hawks traded luca dot j. fox. He's point also the same game parlay insurance twenty five dollars back on any Parleys for more. Every i will jump on this with kevin here to score and fifteen points with john collins. Twenty points luca. Trae both thirty points. Porzingis god twenty five point twenty five dollars to win to grant. Hey even if it loses you get your money back the fuck you say that one more time so every to get in on that absolutely kevin heared or to score fifteen points number three on the hawks john collins big man to score twenty points do and hitting threes this year. Plus luka doncic thirty thirty points trae young. Thirty points In chris tops. Pausing god twenty five points and that is twenty five to win two thousand thirty dollars and forty nine cents. Welcome for the one that good opt in on the same game. Nba voice See of nick. If nick was coming here and give any any hockey for tonight lot of picks for to do college. There's like thirty five college basketball game suing. I have dabbled into college saturday yet. With the hundred and twenty four games. How it's excited to do it. It's quite the wormhole knicks coming in for his Nikki skates has his hockey. Pecs for tonight with the lineup. look like tonight relate. Look we just two games. The bruins at the rangers. The bruins now. They're heavy moneyline favorites at minus one. Seventy three so. What i'm gonna do is if you know the fendell app you click on more wagers will see the sixty minute line which is a bet for the teams to win in regulation. I'm gonna go with the bruins at mar. This one fifteen there. I think that winning regulation. I'm not gonna mess with the over the over and under because it's gone under in the rangers last seven games but the last six of seven that the bruins majors of played. It's gone over this Sixty five percent of the tickets are on the over ninety one percent of the money that was on the under i. I'm just. I'm all over the place. Where the ninety five percent of the money is on. They bruins money moneyline. Yeah so. I'm all over the bruins money line. You can take it at one seventy three or wants to be six. Sorry and if you do the sixty minute line for them the winning regulation. It's my one fifteen much better odds and then for the other game I'm going to go. Which is montreal and toronto in montreal. I'm gonna take montreal. Money line launch. My line is minus one. Oh five the abbey tulse yeah carey price. He got lit up last night. He played him. I think play much better game though the leaves or hot they've been scoring to. I like to. You're taking both games that are on tonight. Have to take more. Do you take any puck. no i don't i don't dabble much in the nhl calls. Basketball's it for me. Kelly divest. I've been sold college basketball. Footy i'll dive in the nba. Probably at some point. But i just. I don't know i can't wrap my head around the nba this year. So far i I covet yeah covid. you just don't know nick. I pray you thank you. I have to ought to get out of here. I have one Ozzy open bet. Tonight i was. Yeah women's or men's men's can't remember his first name. Tony paul something. Ball's t. ball ball game. Remember his first name. T. paul against sea route tepe plus one twelve tonight. Sounds like a winner to me. Absolutely love him We gave you out a lot of picks today. We'll be doing this every monday. Wednesday friday three thirty Like i said we're gonna have a couple of competitions coming out here. We'll probably reveal those next show for friday going into the weekend Where you can win money from us as well as money on faneuil as well as possibly some merch We'll probably start. Those on. friday will begin out all of our picks for all the sports We can't thank you enough of you. Enjoy the show. Let your friends though. Why not and if he can't catch us live at three thirty every monday wednesday friday listeners. Noses podcasts where everywhere podcasts are subscribing rate to that that that'd be nice to That's all i got to say. You got anything else. No winless out some winners tonight. Some winners was z. Go to winner but does he has a winter seats. Megan picks back there. Of course zt pick is for the chicago bears to win super bowl next season carson wentz plus one fifty k. carson wentz a plus one fifty. We'll see friday three thirty hammer dad.

basketball lsu football nba indiana brogden pacers west carolina mississippi unc english premier league Nigel seely nets drake tony Tony West carolina military institute hornets dick
Episode #206: Missing 411 - Eastern US - 1

Brothers of the Serpent Podcast

2:28:27 hr | 2 months ago

Episode #206: Missing 411 - Eastern US - 1

"And welcome back ladies and gentlemen boys and girls aged servants two brothers of the serpent. Podcast coming to you live from the ten. by ten. by ten tangent cube of science nestled amongst the dusty bones of ancient seabed high atop the edwards plateau so following on from last week's episode with marty about skin walkers I think we might start looking back into the missing one stuff. I think that It does connect a bit So we'll go through some of that today. But i of course we got the first segment stuff. So what are we have agriculturally like. We haven't last week was rainy so there. There wasn't a lot to do talk about the nets. i guess we did. Yeah the nestled. We're trying to fight off fungus. Hard to yeah. We had a little window of opportunity to spray the grapes last week about two weeks and a day since the last spray. And you gotta get on there and have it dry up before it rains again. Yeah and the more rain you get the more vigorous the funguses. It's yeah fi. Don't get a chance to spray or it was like day was just too muddy. Couldn't even drive out there. Yeah but we got it on. So they're protected for the next couple of weeks. Yes that probably the last time. Yeah maybe But we'll be switch into oxidative which is a hydrogen peroxide. Yeah so it's like a organic non toxic Anti fungal refund decide so we can spray them all the way up to like right before harvest base. Yeah so what was the thing about the salt. You were talking about. It was not magnesium. It was yeah it was questioning whether or not it was magnesium by looked it up because i talked about that last week and then i was like. Was i right about that. But yeah that's what it what it is. It's i think. Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate But i did talk to maureen which is who is my instructor. The texas tech. She said that the the uptake in the vine of that magnesium wouldn't be where the magnesium comes from that ends up buffering the ph in the wine so the problem is when you have in there in the grape juice. If you're trying to bring down by adding great acid tartaric acid sometimes. It just won't go down as being buffered by magnesium so that's why didn't apply not potassium or whatever that's buffering it. It's magazine magnesium. Okay and so. If i was going to add fifteen pounds of epsom salt per acre to the vines i was thinking. Well that's gonna it's gonna take up a bunch of magnesium yeah which is the deficiency which is what gives the leaves. The tiger stripe the pattern. Yeah so. I didn't do it. And i was like i'll do it after harvest telling me up the uptakes not. It won't go into the fruit by that time. But she says they get this burst of magnesium in the fruit like when you get into the really hot days Okay and i don't. I don't know what the mechanism for that as the physiology of the I don't i don't understand it. So yeah i could do that. We could do that injection. I guess yeah. I mean they look pretty good to me. I did see if you would tiger stripes but most of them don't seem to have it too bad and yeah just here and there but yeah so yeah i mean. They're looking good turning turning purple. Yep i did. I post a posted some pictures of it of the asian. Yeah yeah lots of fruit. Yeah there's a lot of fruit. Hopefully we can get a machine harvest harvest gonna be a lot. Yeah yup and the garden is amazing. And i guess they're making pickles at of some of those cucumbers. I've been eating them. Yeah and they Maria just harvested a giant tub of Cilantro seeds and. I mean it was beautiful. I was like how did she get these so clean. It was just like all the seeds and almost nothing else She figured out how to do it. I don't know how she did it but last year they tried to do it and it was real messy stems. Also stuff now. She rolled up into the shop at this gigantic tub full of like i thought they bought him for what we plan. He's like no no they harvested those Dang eight one and it was. It was awesome. It was like this burst of the cilantro flavor dried seed. Yeah and the corn. The corn taller than me. Yes yeah So i was looking at. Yeah that's looking real good all right. Let's go ahead and do a space whether news space by dot com or we get all our space for the news says wendy with a chance of storms today. A high-speed stream of solar wind is expected to hit earth's magnetic field wind. Beads could top six hundred kilometers per second sparking minor. G one class geomagnetic storms and high latitude auroras the gaseous material is flowing from an equatorial hole in the sun's atmosphere also. There wasn't aurora surprise on july tenth. There was no aurora predicted for that day but unexpectedly it says a crack opened in earth magnetic field for thirty minutes and the timing was perfect for aurora's to show up that night. They have a picture of where they showed up space for the dot com also venus kisses mars so when the sun goes down tonight step outside and look west deep in the evening twilight. Venus is kissing mars. The two planets are only half a degree. Apart in the sky the best time to look is about forty five minutes. After local sunset the planets will be hanging low so a clear view of the western horizon is essential. Venus pops out of the twilight. I followed later by mars. And they won't be this close together again until may eleventh twenty thirty four. Yeah half a degree. Apart in the sky current conditions solar wind speed three hundred seventeen point five kilometers per second the density is pretty high at eleven point nine. Protons per cubic centimeter current. Sunspot number is twenty. Three and the neutron count is nine percent above the space age average and the kp index to quiet and the twenty four hour. Max is also too but that may go up when this when this Solar in hits us. I guess they're sitting so wins it's supposed to hit again Let's see just says today. Oh so could be any time today. Hasn't hit yet. Let's see crypto crypto. Update here it's going through the roof. Let's hope i haven't checked it since last week. I haven't looked at it either. Yeah come on. I still hovering around thirty three. I bet probably we're just gonna prediction. Put it in the book. yeah thirty to. Bitcoin is at thirty two thousand. Eight hundred and ninety eight dollars and seventy seven cents and theory is at two thousand thirty dollars and twenty three cents around. I got a fun story today. This is from earth sky dot org snakes forked tongues. Let them smell in stereo. This is by kurt. Schwenk the university of connecticut as dinosaurs lumbered through the humid forests of ancient south america. I don't know how to pronounce it. Psycho ed but one hundred eighty million years ago. Primeval lizard scurried unnoticed beneath their feet. Perhaps to avoid being trampled by their giant kin some of these early lizards sought refuge underground. Here they evolved long slender bodies and reduced limbs to negotiate the narrow nooks and crevices beneath the surface without light. Their vision faded but to take its place and especially acute sense of smell evolved. It was during this period that these proto snakes evolved one of their most iconic traits a long flicking forked tongue. These reptiles eventually returned to the surface. But it wasn't until the extinction of the dinosaurs. Many millions of years later that they diversified into myriad types of modern snakes. I didn't know that you know that they weren't around during the dinosaurs time. They were lizards According to this evolutionary biologists they devolved their legs. Is that what. Yeah okay weird. Yeah i thought the same thing as weird as an evolutionary biologists i. The writer of this story am fascinated by these bizarre tongues and the role. They have played in snakes. Success snake tongues are so peculiar. They have fascinated naturalists. For centuries aristotle believed the for tips provided snakes a twofold pleasure from taste a view mirrored centuries later by french national naturalist bruno germain day. Something who suggested the twin tips could adhere more closely to the tasty body of these soon to be snack seventeenth century astronomer and naturalist giovanni battista ho diana thought snakes use their sons for picking the dirt out of their noses since they are always groveling on the ground others contended the tongue captured flies with wonderful. Nimble nece betwixt the forks or gathered air for sustenance. One of the most persistent has been that. The darting tongue is a venomous stinger. A misconception perpetuated by shakespeare with his many references to stinging serpents and adverse. Who's double tongue. May with mortal touch throw death upon thy enemies. I'm sure that was shakespeare. Making a some kind of esoteric four but anyway. According to the french naturalist and early evolutionist jean-baptiste lamarque snakes limited vision. Obliged them to use their tongues to feel several objects at lamarcus belief that the tongue function doesn't an of touch was the prevailing scientific view by the end of the nineteenth century clues to the true significance of snake tons began to emerge in the early nineteen hundreds when scientists turned their attention to two bold like organs located just above the snakes pallet below its nose known as jacobson's or Volmer nasal organs. The merrill romero nasal organs each opens to the mouth through a tiny hole in the palate. The mayor nosal organs are found in variety of land animals including mammals but not in most primates so humans don't experience whatever sensation they provide. Scientists found that vamanos nosal venero nasal romera nasal or are in fact an offshoot of the nose lined with similar sensory cells that send impulses to the same part of the brain as the nose and they discovered that tiny particles picked up by the tongue. Tips ended up inside the ventura. Nasal oregon. These breakthroughs led to the realization that snakes use their tongues to collect and transport molecules to their the mirror nasal organs not to taste them but to smell them in one thousand nine hundred ninety four. I used film and photo evidence to show that wind. Snakes sample chemicals on the ground. They separate their tongue tips far apart just as they touch the ground. This action allows them to sample odor molecules from widely separated points simultaneously. And then he has this picture here of the naacp tongue coming out in the floor down so you can see it yeah. The fork starts out close together and then he gets real wide and the tips just touched touch the ground. Yeah each see that. When when i used to catch snakes. That was one of the things that i would do. I hold and i particularly the the The the puff adder the the hog nose hold the snakehead like just close enough to my nose to wear when it stuck his tongue out could just barely touch my nose and i noticed that this actually made them docile sample yeah sampling checking me out. Just touch him. I know so. He's like smelling me in stereo. Weird each tip delivers to. Its own the mirrow nasal organ separately allowing the snakes brain to assess instantly. Which side has the stronger smell. Snakes have to tongue tips for the same reason you have two ears. It provides them with directional or stereo smell with every flick a skill that turns out to be extremely useful in following scent trails. Left by potential prey or mates. Forked tongue lizards the legend of the the legged cousins of snakes. Do something very similar that snakes take it one step farther unlike lizards when snakes collect odor molecules in there in the air to smell. They oscillate their forked tongues. Up and down in a blur of rapid motion to visualize how this affects air movement graduate student. Bill ryerson and i used a laser focused into a thin sheet of light to illuminate tiny particles. Suspended in the air. Nice this is cool. We discovered that the flickering snake tongue generates two pairs of small swirling masses of air or vortices that act like tiny fans pulling odors in from each side and getting them directly into the path of each tongue tip since odor molecules in. The air are few and far between we believe snakes. Unique form of tongue flicking serves to concentrate the molecules and accelerate their collection onto the tongue. Tips preliminary data also suggests that the airflow on each side remained separate enough for snakes to benefit from the same stereo smell. They get from odors on the ground owing to history genetics and other factors natural selection often falls short in creating optimally designed animal parts but when it comes to the snake tongue evolution seemed to have hit one. Hit one out of the park. Yeah i doubt any engineer could do better. Kirch wink. Professor of ecology evolutionary biology at the university of connecticut. Oh that's really cool. Yes so yeah the image of the snake tongue. It's still image but the they've got smoke in the air and you can see. The tongue is in the upward sweep. And there's these two vortices right underneath that's really cool stereo smell. Yeah so it's like we have to nostrils but they're not stereo right because it just goes into the doesn't go to the same passage basically. I don't know it's separate in there. I mean you wanna follow a smell you have to. You have to kind of like move around. Yeah yeah it's it's just a matter of string right. Like how strong is the smell. When i go this way Right or you figure out. Like is the wind blowing in. Which direction is it coming from. Yeah yeah. I'm trying to think about it now. Like have i gone somewhere. You take a sniff and you're like you know like well sounds good. It's back there. I don't know the paid more attention to pay more attention. To what data do i get instantly before. I start moving around and try to figure out where the smell's coming from. Yeah but we were. Also talking about you know the the the actual receptors number in number dog has like millions more. Yes yeah. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was something like the dog is. A dog has hundreds one hundred times or more times. What the human does in terms of the smell sensors and so it was just like it's interesting to think about it. You know for dog. It's normal to go to an area and be like. Oh yeah you know. A couple of my friends like other dogs. Were here two weeks ago and they win over there and they were chasing a squirrel squirrel still there. They didn't find it by the dog. Just knows all this stuff whether actually thinks that way but all that data is apparent. Imagine if you're if you're if your sense of smell worked that clearly like you know you you go outside and you and you can basically see tracksuit of all the people in your family and where they went and follow them precisely and know how old they were. You know like the car comes back and you're like oh you went to You went to the gas station which gas station. You went to on the tires exactly. I'm sure they can do that. Yeah that's crazy that's and that kind of ties into what we're going to be talking about later today later. This yeah a lot of these cases they bring dogs out there and you know in this in politis work a lot of the cases. The dogs don't work now. I have read so much different conflicting things about the ability. I'd love to talk to somebody who who does this. Who train or works with highly dogs. Dogs yeah maybe we can. I know they have canine unit out here. We could find somebody. Yeah yeah that's a good point that would be a really good I'd really like to know like you know because one of the things i've read is is people are like look. The dogs are really awesome. But they're not infallible comparative to every other possible way we have of tracking people who are lost in the wilderness. They're the best instrument you've got we need to. We need a frigging train some snakes. Yeah yeah yeah. But i just search and rescue grew quick before we get into their hominids. I mean they're gonna suck. Yeah before we get into this we well. I don't think we've ever talked about this on the show. But there's a whole thing of like what. What would you superpower be. Yeah fewer superhero. Yeah i got a new one now. So stereo smells stereos. No i'd be the i'd be the super sniffer. See the world in terms of smell. Yeah yeah that's interesting. Like i don't know if you've ever if anybody ever read the wheel of time series but there was a a in that you know this is is fantasy sci fi or whatever you're going to start those audiobooks but there was a. There was a purse. There are people in that world who had a skill called sniffing and they would use them as they would be they would become what they call thief trackers or you know but they were just. They called him sniffers and it was all on the dl because most of the sniffers were men and in this story. It's only the women who were allowed to have the magical powers because anything that the men have like. There's a hugh. I don't want to go into it. But basically if men have the power can be really really bad because it's been tainted so the sniffer. Yeah there was a tank on the male half of the power so the sniffers were kept on the dl but it was interesting because the basically the way the guy worked as he could smell he could smell violence and he and he can tell you how old it was and so if if there were violent people he could just follow them. Well yeah and he could tell you like yeah. They were souls neighbor here. Yeah they were here three days ago you know and the guy could like he would sniff the air and be like yeah this dude real bad like he's killed a lot of people and recently yes so there was a part of the witcher series where he one of his he knows this guy. Who's who was aware wolf. He's married he's got his whole family. Yeah and he goes over there and the of course the wife and the kids don't know him because they had you know he'd met the guy before he got married and they could have been enemies but he ended up helping him out and became friends. That's right and he needs him he needs for back. Yeah yeah for tracking but he shows up over there and like causes all this mayhem. Because he's not home in the family's home and they try to kill him. They think he's coming for them. Yeah yeah and so. When he's talking to the guy husband father later he's like will smell like death and he you know he's like what do you mean he's like well you have blood on you can smell. Your blood is like two weeks old. Yeah and then then. I can smell a whole lot of other people's blood and it's also two weeks old and then there's some much older blood of a lot of other things killed. Yeah exactly so. Yeah rea- that he walks in and the family just like. Oh my god guys here to kill it. That's right that's right. I do remember that. Yeah that was cool. Yeah yeah and and gerald is also supposed to have a heightened sense of smell being a witcher but yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah fiction. Fiction is good okay. Let's let's let's tackle some emails here. We're still trying to catch up. I don't know if it's ever going to happen Okay so this one This was a good long run. It is from anonymous. Non ass- says greetings is called dark matter from episode eighty greetings. Kyle and russ been meaning to comment on this matter for a while. But i keep forgetting until i recently listened to that episode of mindscape with lena seib i only have a bachelor degree in physics and astronomy and an old one at that. So don't take my words to seriously. Well that's better than yeah so he says i agree so you may have to listen to this episode of mindscape with lena to fully understand what he's saying here but he says i agree with that the way. Lena and sean dismiss the can we just tweak gravity argument to make the dark matter. Go away is less than satisfactory. I'm also well aware of the amount of fixing relativity proposals. That physics professors get in their inbox. So i'm sure that factors into how much they talk about these matters and public given all that. I still think that they are correct on this. What they're bringing up is the various studies on estimating the mass of the observable universe using the cosmic microwave background data from the w the w m p satellite. These studies show that there should be more mass than what we can see the way that they derive the mass is independent of gravity hints. It's not just gravity that we have to fix and mets. All the extra mass. Go away right. This is how i understand the derivation of the mass of the visible universe. The c. m b. is the first light of the universe hints. It should contain everything that makes up the universe the wma data gives us a high resolution. Temperature data on the cosmic microwave background. You can get the energy density of the matter from the temperature data. This relies on the standard model using special relativity or e. equals mc squared. You can get the mask. Density of the universe. Special relativity does not involve gravity or space time curvature. It's mainly the consequence of the speed of light being constant in a vacuum. The final point that you can argue here is that this mass is technically inertial mass. There are experiments that show the equivalent of inertial mass and gravitational mass but we really don't have direct theoretical connection between the two or theoretical. He says General relativity assumes that inertial and gravitational mass are the same in the standard model. It wasn't settled at the two are the same back when i was in school. I don't know if the higgs field or particle solves this. So yeah if you're looking to break general relativity. The best option is to show that light speed is not constant or that there's significant difference between inertial mass and gravitational mass and the vibrational solid phenomenon. You guys were trying to describe episode. One eighty is called a phone on in wave physics. Yours sincerely anonymous. Well man that's awesome. Yeah cool sharon anonymous but yeah cool Yeah so. I think it's an the the the question of inertial mass versus gravitational mass interesting one. Yeah because if basically i just think all those things are on the table yeah okay. Because the current constant speed of light may not have always been the constant speed of light in the past right like if the density of the medium that it's traveling in whatever it is was different that it could have been a different speed. Yeah so of course. The standard model doesn't think of it in terms of a medium but since the rise of quantum field theory. It basically is it's it's it's a medium. Yeah a fee. It's a bunch of fields. Yeah so the nature of those fields are do they. They consider them constant forever since the beginning. I don't know. I think that's on the table and i think that because i've read enough scientists who also think that. Yeah and they have problems with general relativity and they have problems with the celestial mechanics aspect of dark matter. Which is you know. The visually seeing the the organization of galaxies. So that's you're right. That's one way if you only look at the dark matter problem in that way and disregard the the cosmic microwave background information than it looks like you can modify gravity and fix it but it becomes more complicated when you look at the cosmic microwave background because you have to change other things like you're saying i just think those things are on the table right. Yeah redshift is part of that too right. Yep yeah and yeah. I really old light. Yeah right or what were the circumstances just different when it was created. Yeah yup. I don't know but that's that's great stuff man prieto. Okay so i have. This is a person from sweden. I have no idea how to say either. One of the names that are in here. Let's see one of them. Looks like pewter. Maybe maybe what do you think. Ot are don't know says hello snakes. I have just recently started listening to your podcasts. And quickly got addicted to listening to them. On a daily basis with a plan to hear all available episodes. Why because you do a great job in your. Podcasts are cool and interesting and i like the fact that you touch a lot of different subjects. Nice i thought of asking you if you have a long caves as much as i could dig into any details. There isn't particularly much information about who when and why built them. There are no historical records about this place. I know that like in a metric dating was performed there to date the place as well as they found some tools somewhere around which is obviously quote unquote a sufficient proof when the place was built route to thirty bc again here. We have enormous project that was somehow engineered flat surfaces drainage systems away to dig up stone and seriously heart conditions. And a really interesting. Chiseling marks fabulous. I would love to hear your thoughts about it. Have you heard of or already. Talked about any unexplained mysterious sites in china. Chinese pyramids take care. Keep up the great work thumbs. Up cheers from cheers from sweden. Long grottoes right. Yes we caves. Yeah yeah i agree you find that in the in the if you search that in the at the website yes. It's possible that the we definitely talked about them in older episodes. You didn't do this serious deep dive but we did talk about them. Yeah they're they are mysterious. One of the big questions is where's all the stone Yeah they took out. They excavated a lot of material and it's nowhere in in evidence around the area with a very small area where the caves were. It wasn't a mining operation because there's nothing to mind there except rock. If they were quarrying they did it. The hard way because the entrances are all they basically dug caves and the entrances are all very small and they made tunnel these the ones that were full of water and they like putts right. There's like pumping them out. Yeah so they the and this is. This is based on what i know from reading. You know what. I've read You know obviously it's not. I haven't checked up on this because we need to really contact locals there and talk to them about it. But the idea was is that in this area all the locals. Which are these are poor farmers forever. They knew about these pools. They were small pools of water and they consider them to be bottomless. Yeah yeah and they so they thought of them as bottomless pools and they were all over the place. There were dozens of them in the in the area. And eventually one guy who sounds like a snake bro to me like let's pump. He's like what the fuck is bottom. Bullshit you know. And they were crystal clear and they had big fish in them. Yeah what what what. What so he he. Three of his buddies conspire to pool their money. And they get a big pump and they drop down in there and they start pumping the water out the levels. Going down down down and it's revealing stairs there's like sticking out like all this carving in there like okay and so they keep paying and they keep pumping and it reveals a multi level enormous underground complex. And there's dozens of these around there so and they they from what i've read again. I don't know if this is confirmed or not. But from what i've read there's a whole bunch of them. They're all very close to each other. And none of them intersect each other underground. Which is interesting. Because it's like down underground like when you map them out. Now you find out that some of these these separate systems have tunnels that basically around each other. That's right where the other ones were like. It was effort for whatever reason for whatever reason they never made them connect like they were making separate chambers but in some cases the tunnels from different systems. Come really close to each other but never actually intersect. Yeah it's cool stuff and there's some great photos you can find this kind of stuff. That just makes me jealous. You know how how come. There's not bottomless pools. Where we live like you know what. Let's pump those out. Yeah dan two guys bought a pump discovered amazing ancient tunnel system. Yeah yeah and You know other questions are worded. the fish. Go like apparently from what i've read again. I don't know if this is totally confirmed but after they pumped all the water out the fish were nowhere in evidence. So that makes you wonder like will will is. Are the fish getting in there some other way. You know. Tom suck all the fish up and then grind them up and throw them out. I don't know but like they pump all the water out and there aren't fish like flopping around the bottom. So what what what what's going on. Yeah yeah i've seen people asking. Where did the water come from. Where supposedly it's seepage. Because the stone is limestone right. Yeah the well. It's it's a sedimentary rock Yeah i don't know if it's specifically limestone but yes it's sedimentary rock so the water is in there because of seepage interscope tardy bothered by the fish story. I've just like that. Maybe that may be apocryphal. It made you know. Maybe i i remember reading it. Like they were fishing there. They they all caught fish and the supposedly. The fish were big. And you could just go up to the pool and like catch them with your hands like if you came to the surface you can catch them in your hand and pumped all the water out and there's no fish so that that's You know. I don't know what that means. But that's that is part of the story. Maybe they were ground up in the pump pump serious pump. Yeah but yeah the the longer grottoes are very interesting. And yes you know. They're they're at least one of them has some artwork in it that looks like a depiction of Some possible chinese mythology. I don't know. I don't know if that's if that dates to the cave itself or if it was later addition you know it's not it's not. It's not really possible to tell yeah. They gave it a rough age of about two thousand years old. And yeah as far. As the chinese your. I think what you're talking about is the giant triangular orchards. Yes yeah yeah. Because they plant trees all over they plant trees all over the all over and like the pyramids or are they more like the mounds that we had. Here are the mounds and mounds. Yeah because you can't plant trees. But i mean of the pyramids in mexico. The pyramid of the sun was covered in dirt. Yeah yeah yeah. A lot of a lot of the mayan stuff was just looks like a mound of dirt before they cleaned it off to. Yeah with stuff growing on it. So yeah yeah yeah. They could be stone pyramids. It's just not clear. A whole bunch of gigantic pyramids in mexico were just covered in dirt. Yeah that is weird. Like like they were intentionally buried like beckley teppei. Yeah because i mean how do you get the dirt on their. What deposited the dirt ten thousand years of wind. I don't know once you get enough. On there and then grass starts growing it holds. It keeps going up. I don't know that's that's supposedly or just wild. Yeah but i mean i remember. We went to that place in guatemala. And there were like two of the big pyramids that have been cleared off right. They had been cleaned up and you could see structure and it was stone. Were other enormous mounds of around there. And they were just fuzzy and covered. Yeah were pyramids. That hadn't been excavated yet. I don't know how they you know. A steep sided style stone pyramid becomes covered in dirt and becomes pointed hill green. It's weird. Yeah they're in the deep jungle with gigantic trees that are dropping leaves and stuff on them all the time all this fiber then you get the moss growing on that and you can see in that jungle how that happened. But the ones in china. But i guess all that stuff's now cultivated so maybe thousands of years ago it was just wasn't jungle. Yeah force yeah. I don't really interesting stuff. We're running up on time. You got one more game short. We'll do more. This is about episode. Seventy eight we just need to shut up more than we can get through. This is from richard. He says greetings snake brothers bounded by the impossibility of talking back. I here express my thoughts. The eye injection mice so we read a story in one. Seventy eight about injections on ice to change to allow them to see other spectra. Remember that i think so. I think that we should expect a very different reaction with humans after all our is might have lost the ability to see outside of the current spectrum but our brain might still be able to translated into a visual image. It would be very interesting to see the results. As for powering. Cars with wireless tech. I see this is a very simple metal matter. Just build towers to capture the energy energy space them along the roads as required and then use them to power a simple inductive plate that can be placed in each lane of the road. Highway or everywhere. You want them. This is all doable with present day. Tech yeah my best regards from richard. Yeah agree with that. Yes that would be yup. Yeah and i was thinking. When i read this i was like. That's a lot of towers. But then i'm like well. Every road is lined with towers with polls with our polls already so. Yeah yeah all right and if you could make them hover. We wouldn't have to pave the roads just have to mow. The road bikes. Let's keep mode all right. Let's take a break stereos next and we're back ladies and gentlemen and start the sands of time diving back into the four one one. That's right nice segue. Even though we don't need segues tell. Segues are unnecessary. So yeah this is missing phone one eastern united states but so the ones we did years ago. Those stories were from the western united states. So this is part of the original set of four hundred eleven cases that he decided to that politis. George david politis decided to write about Yeah and this expanded is searches. This subject kept popping up in my mind as we're going through the. Yeah the whole all this ufo stuff right the mardi. Yeah so this is one of the ones. I've read before but i went back through it. I basically i assault on a bookshelf. Day with the other all the other missing phone. When i was like you know maybe we could talk about some cases from that book because my original plan with domestic one is i wanted to go through because dave does a fantastic job when he goes on i feel like he does a really good job and he goes on other shows and he has like a set list of cases that he talks about and those big cases with lots of details So if you listen to multiple times when he's discussing the same book he's discussing basically the same cases. He's talking about dennis martin. He's talking about bartsch liar. These are the big cases that he discusses but are my goal when we started doing our shows on it was. I wanted to go through some of the less lower profile cases in the book and give people a more clear indication of what's happening because to me it's not about any individual case like yes. Individual cases are strange but a lot of times calls pointed this out. They lack details. That allow you to really understand what's happening in some cases. You want to ask questions that there aren't answers to right so to me. It's more about. The effect of the book is read through. And you see patterns. Now is this pattern. Does this pattern emerge because of the lack of details possible. You know but some people accused him of being you know. It's it's a selection bias. Yeah yeah and i. I think i guess this election biases. If you're trying to profile something yeah. I mean but the question is is there a selection bias in within individual cases. Like you know people have said. Well he doesn't give you like a pertinent piece of information in an individual case that will would that makes it a mundane thing Maybe that's true. Well you would have to. Yeah you'd have to go research case Separately the unknown and that's hard to do on the ones that are old. Yeah so what. I've done here in this book and again i'm i'm gonna put the links to buy the book in the show notes and to the website and everything. I encourage everybody to go. Get these books because It's really about reading the entire thing that you kind of see things emerge in so one thing i will say is i did notice as i was reading through this again. I did notice like because i often hear people say well you can tell. He thinks it's bigfoot right. Even though he never says anything like that in the book right now. When i was reading through this. I'm like okay. I can see how people might think that because there's some cases where he's wondering you know he's wonder like there's there's footprints that are bare feet. And he's you know he's like okay. What does that. And there alongside a blueprint. And he's like. What does this mean you know. He got a barefoot footprint alongside a blueprint and there. There's course there's like strange. Harry men or wild men or whatever that like in the dentist martin case specifically there was a there was the key and it was a key piece of evidence that was witnessed by a family whose last name was key which is a strange coincidence. Went out to look for bears. They and this is a weird thing. Does this really happen. You know where you is. They said that they asked a park ranger. Like where can we see bears and the park rangers. Go down this real like. Did they really do that. You really going to send somebody in an area where you know where they're bears are i don't know but anyway they saw and just to clarify when you say barefoot footprint. You're not talking about a bear right talking about a foot with no him exactly. Yeah and so. They say that they saw an upright man who their son initially thought was a bear. So that implies that it's like harry or something and maybe he's wearing a big for Yeah he could have been wearing furs. and then heat and then later david talks to I can't remember the guy's name but he's an old park ranger who did a lot of search and rescue. And he was involved in the dennis martin case and he says yeah there are He what he calls wild men living in the great smoky mountains But in that. David david is. He's like it when we're talking about wild man. This guy is specifically talking about human beings that have gone to live in the while and so yeah they may be harry scary looking but they're not like a scripted. Okay anyway so what. I've gone what i've done is i've marked a bunch of cases in this book that i kind of want kind of want to go through It may take two episodes But there's for the most part the pattern that i'm that i'm going with here are very young. Children who disappeared basically from their backyards. Basically they disappear within within a small distance of the rest of their family members and a most of the time. They're found alive that that's the pattern. I'm going with here because this is those are the ones that are harder to explain. You know when when the kid disappears. It's just they're gone without a trace and no evidence has ever found. That's a mystery but anything could have happened so when you when you find the the child alive or maybe they find it very recently deceased which does happen in some of these cases. There's more data. Yeah so that's what i'm going with here. Except there are a few cases there will be some scattered in here. That aren't that. But the reason i picked those because they have strange details that i'm that i wanna talk about okay. Okay so this first one. This is in minnesota. The name is cory. Kelly age at disappearance is thirty. Eight years of the first ones. Not a kid went missing In two thousand six is that right. Yeah two thousand six. Sometimes it's hard to tell because might be nineteen o six Yeah so went missing. Ten sixteen zero six So corey and his friend. Jim go grouse-hunting northern minnesota kelly His name is cory kelly. Kelly made the trip from his home in crooks down minnesota to the red lake state wildlife management area And then his friend. Jim joins him on the sixteenth of october. They set up camp when jim realizes they need gas and they wish they had forgotten to get so. He says he'll go to the nearest town and get gas. Corey stays behind with jim's dog. So jim tell. Jim says he last saw corey. Two hundred yards south of the camp with his shotgun and he was headed out to shoot grouse going out to hunt with the dog. Jim leaves the campsite at five thirty. Pm and he returns an hour and a half later at seven pm. So you're is back at the campsite to find evidence that Corey had been collecting firewood. Him it was getting late Closed dark so he starts to get nervous. He also realizes that his own dog sammy. A golden labrador was missing. He could see that cory had taken his shotgun And then late in the night it starts to rain. So darkness comes Jim hawkes the horn and flashes the truck lights for a long time trying to if his buddies lost trying to show him how to get back. became really late and So he goes to bed hoping that it'll show up in the morning. He wakes up at four. Am start searching again. Can't locate him so then he then he goes He walked almost two miles around the camp site looking for him. Couldn't find him so then he flags to people passing by the campsite and explain somebody was missing missing and ask them to notify law enforcement. Okay so corey had been visiting this exact area the red lakes since he was a child. This was the first visit for jim. So then the sheriff keith. Winger took takes the lead on the organization of the search searchers. Comb the area of the campsite and with the use of use of atv's started to expand their search into the wilderness. Difficult terrain tall grasses. Lots of water swamps and bogs for almost two weeks. Searchers found nothing on wednesday. October twenty fifth to hunters nine miles from the camp found the labrador the dog wandering in the woods. The dog was dehydrated and hungry but in generally good condition on saturday october. Twenty eighth searchers found corey's cigarette lighter and cigarettes on twenty october. Twenty ninth trackers from the minnesota bureau of criminal apprehension which is interesting. Find his overalls socks and sweatshirt fourteen miles from the original campsite on october thirtieth Bill trauma county emergency management coordinator barrel earned berg stated that weather had hindered the search that they terminating their efforts. At this point snow at started to fall in there were two inches of snow on the ground. In mid november. The search for corey started again. The best search dogs in minnesota were brought After thirteen more days they were still unable to locate corey on november twenty third. The search for corey was terminated for winter searchers had now conducted two different searches each lasting approximately two weeks and they had found clothing fourteen miles from the campsite and scoured that location for corey but he was not found so the next year april twenty eighth the search for korea resumes with the sheriff's department flying over the area where corey's clothes and other personal belongings were found north of the rapid river walking bridge off of rapid river road near to the meuse river road north of four towns. So he's just giving you the area The team spots a body among eight foot tall reeds. fifteen feet off the trail. The body the air team spotted was corey so korea's mothers interviewed after the body was recovered and after the search team and sheriff's department debris after on october thirty first. She said the sheriff's department can't believe he got fourteen miles from the campsite and he probably got there somehow. The first night he must have been flying through the trees and the bushes. I can't believe you could have gotten that far. So politis says that he ordered the report on the incident from the county the beltramini county sheriff and a copy of the cause of death from the coroner's office and the death certificate stated that he died from hypothermia so he says he's in total agreement with corrie's mother. He can't believe corey could have could leave late in the afternoon travel fourteen plus miles through the swamp to his final destination in the reports. He did receive from the sheriff's department. There is one form that states that the dog was located. It was found in general area. That corey went missing biological samples. Were taken from the dog and forwarded to the to a lab. The report states that the remains and samples were going to be checked for human remains clothing. the samples were taken to the lab on october. Twenty six two thousand six. So dave says in his summary here. He says he's personally studied the corey kelly case for two years. It's been a search and rescue incident that disturbed him. Corey was not new to the area had been visiting the area of red lake management area. For twenty five years. He was an experienced hunter and camper knew the dangers associated with hunting in november in minnesota. He also knew not to hunt at night and that this specific area posed extreme danger after dark. Because of the bogs and swamps. The sheriff's did not explain why they felt. Corey died the first night but it is obvious to everyone that traveling that distance through that type of terrain doesn't make any sense. A person would have to be practically superhuman to travel that distance in that timeframe so then he says why we're corey's close off so if he died of hypothermia the argument here is paradoxical undressing took place and so he sheds all his clothing but again usually the body is found pretty close to the area where the shed clothing happens because they don't get far after that they're already in the process of dying in their completely now. Every person is different. So i don't know so maybe he can show his clothes and then keep walking basically naked through the snow in the woods and die far farley from his clothes. It's also interesting that they find him fifteen feet from a trail but in eight in very tall reeds where the bodies hidden that hidden. Yes it's right off the trail but hidden in the reads. Yeah so but so. He was found in the general area of the clothing clothing was found fourteen miles away. The does yeah. it doesn't say specifically but yeah so okay. His cigarette right. They were flying over the area whereas clothes and other personal belongings were found and they spotted the body but when it says they found his clothes they said like fourteen mile right so he was found in the general area where they were searching the area where his close down when they found him. Yeah he was among eight foot tall rita. They only could see him from the air. Were those reads like swamp breeds. Were they knew. I mean 'cause yeah. I don't know the it they'd gone through winner right so it's weird. Yeah so he says there's just weird to think like something happened within that hour and a half. Basically something happened almost immediately after the guy left exactly point of separate mic. Why didn't the dog returned to the campsite. That's just really strange right. Yeah because once the dog gets separated from the guy the person he's with. Yeah it seems like the dog. just go we go back to the campsite. Yeah it's like something from going back. Yeah and also how long if he died from hypothermia. Why did he die from hypothermia. He had a cigarette. He had a cigarette case and lighter. So that's another question like if you did get lost. And he's out there in the middle of the night. He's got a lighter he can make a fire right. I mean you could make a fire at and yet they find it discarded like he throws it out like you know. Screw this and like dude. No smoker tosses smokes. Okay yeah man. It's really strange. And they never found his gun. And that's the other thing is like experienced hunters who get lost. No you fire your gun into the. If you're lost you know boom you shoot your gun into the air because that that can people to where you are. They never found his gun right crazy. Yeah and polite points out that there was a dog with him so if somehow loses lighter and he can't make a fire will a dog's real warm you. Can you know snuggle with a dog. It's a labrador. You could snuggle with the dog overnight to keep yourself warm and stave off hypothermia. And yeah dave asks. Why didn't search teams located firearm. He was located in the middle of a very high patch of grass. Fifteen feet off of a main walking path. Why would any person choose to stay in high grass versus a clear and defined walking path. If a person wanted to be found would stay in one place not walk run fourteen miles in one night so those are those. Are i think the first one is like yes. They always tell you if you're lost. Stop moving but that doesn't happen people panic so that's a good point but i do agree that it's weird that he's found and really talk grass right off the walking path. Like why isn't he dead on the just. Don't know the maybe trying to hide from the wind. The no the what. The foliage is like in the area like because that is at grass gonna live through winter Yeah was it tall grass. When he went there right was the grass depressed underneath his body. Yeah yep did it just grow up around him when the spring came. You know what i mean. Yeah so plata says another oddity to this story. Is the condition of sammy. The dog he was found several days after corey disappeared searches stated that the dog had eaten deer meat to stay alive. How did the searchers know that the dog ate deer meat was this through the biological samples taken from the stomach. Where did the deer meat. Come from searchers also stated. The sandy was to hydrated. There is more freshwater in the red lakes area than most people could possibly imagine. How could the dog be dehydrated unless he was somehow confined and restricted i. That was strange to the last and most obvious indicator that something very very odd happened to corey is that his cell phone was never used. Yes there is only intermittent sell reception in this area but if a person were traveling fourteen to fifteen miles across a wide open region he or she would have reception or the phone would have pinged a transponder. A repeat of the phone's location. Occasionally and this did not happen. The area the corey disappeared as some of the most desolate rural and hard to walk locations in north america. He says plight says he has no doubt. There are thousands of acres in this area. That have never been walked by a human being ever which is an interesting concept. I've always wondered that when we go out hiking some really remote played. I'm like is anybody ever actually walked on a so. Well that is definitely i mean. People imagine that you know we've explored everything yet. Nope no i mean. There are vast areas of forest in the united states alone. Never like there's no known yeah. People that have been there and there could be frigging indigenous tribes up there that we would know about on contacted drives contacted tribes so polite says. I want everyone to understand that. Corey left the campsite well prepared. He had the following items cellphone lighter. Cigarettes dog coat firearm ammunition and warm winter clothing. All of the above items were recovered except the firearm one. Shell was recovered but others. Were not corey. Socks were found near other close again presumably discarded on the first night. There's something very wrong with this scenario presented by the sheriff kory disappearing in eventually finding his body. So i agree with that so yeah i listed that when obviously because it's just a strange weird really strange one now again it's you can. You can come up with scenarios in your mind but the again so. Just keep those the what you have to try to do is keep the details of each case in mind as we go through case by case because you'll see him popping up again and again now could this be. Could this be a symptom getting lost and something that people do when they panic. I don't know. But i don't know i'm just interested in the patterns. Okay so the next case here. This one is in wisconsin. The name is colleen age disappearance eighteen months Missing seven three in nineteen eighty eight at six. Pm and the menominee indian reservation in wisconsin. Okay so canessa. And wisconsin is approximately forty miles north of oshkosh and ten miles south of the menominee indian reservation. The area around the reservation is wet. And swampy and the majority of farmland is south of connecticut. At the knesset area has woodland's colleen reported missing it's six. Pm by our parents from her home inside the reservation law enforcement officials immediately responded in a search started soon after their arrival by ten pm. So six four hours later on the evening of the disappearance many people were searching colleen. Still hasn't been found by eight am the following morning and yet there were hundreds. Volunteers flocking to the area to look for the young girl. Approximately one and a half miles from colleen's residents a deputy. Sheriff was directing traffic caused by volunteer. Searchers flocking to the area. The sheriff was taking a short break on a three wheeled. Atv drove down a lonely dirt road that had already been extensively searched by the deputy saw colleen off the side of the road covered in scratches wearing no clothing when she left her home. She was wearing a disposable diaper a barrett both were con. The deputy took his shirt off to cover the girl and advised communications that he had founder. He said she seemed very tired. The night the calling disappeared temperatures had dropped into the forties and law enforcement officials. Were shocked to see that. She survived the night. She was transported to a local hospital and released on the same day. So how did colleen get one and a half miles from her home in bare feet in less than twenty four hours. What happened to her borate and diaper. Why didn't she suffer from exposure when she was essentially naked in the woods with temperatures in the low forties. These are all questions that will never be answered because colleen hadn't learned to talk eighteen months old scratchy. Yeah that's i've mcgee sense all right raymond mackey missing in november. Twenty seven th of november in one thousand nine hundred. Thirty six Kiwi no woods in michigan aged disappearance. Seventeen years so this teenager raymond lived on the far northern peninsula of michigan in copper city. He knew the area very well understood the associated dangers of being in the woods on the twenty seventh of november nineteen thirty six. He was deer hunting He dressed for winter weather. His dog accompanied him. He and his friends agreed to meet back at the camp later in the day and he never returned to the camp which started a massive search so the menominee county sheriff's office took the lead on the search for raymond and was assisted by the houten county. Sheriff six days into the search deputies found raymond's rifle lying on the ground several hundred yards from the rifle in a swamp. They found the interior liner of raymond's mitten searchers return to their search and rescue camp and raymond's dog wandered in after two weeks of one hundred fifty minutes. Scouring the woods in northern michigan deputies called off the search for raymond raymond were alive. Why would he give up his gloves and rifle there. These are a lifeline. Searchers never found any blood in the snow or any other clothing articles. Bears in this region were hibernating during this time period so they are not suspect. Searchers were completely puzzled about why they're search dogs couldn't find central. Even though they found some of raymond's clothing raymond knew not to walk into a swamp area as this would be a life threatening maneuver in late november and yet that is where searchers found his glove liner. And of course it is interesting. That raymond's dog eventually made it back to camp several days after he went missing. The dog returning indicates possibly that raymond was long deceased. So didn't really listen to that one. That's fine i'm looking. I'm trying to figure out what is what's the average pace of an eighteen month old. Oh yeah two steps right. Yeah because if it's like anywhere around two feet see that's almost four thousand paces to go a mile and a half so it's like you know a person can go a mile and a half and like fifteen hundred paces for less yet to go like you know. I don't know if it's two feet that seems big for a for does seem large for for an eighteen month old. Can they even walk really. Yeah yeah that's when the they're they're walking staggering coming. It's a constant stagger. Right this is. This is just to some random website. I'm looking at your child. Will rapidly become more sure footed between sixteen and eighteen months. Okay a beginning. Walkers staggers about with hand held high for balance gradually though they'll begin to feel more comfortable walking with hands and feet at sides by eighteen months. They'll smooth out that awkward wide legged lurch and start walking more smoothly. They may even pick up the pace and try running another few milestones. Picking up something in carrying it made possible by better balancing stronger muscles. Yeah so so. At eighteen months many can climb into chairs and couches trampling through the woods possible thing. Yeah okay barefoot. Their light going barefoot. For sure i mean there were. It's like shoes are cumbersome. Yes there okay trip and on them and stuff i wanna take them off. But i'm just yeah. I can understand you know because it said she was missing her diaper and the the hair borate right. Yeah so i like it and caught on the right. A tree can snag that out. You know the diaper can get torn off. It's weird that they didn't never find him. Because like in a lot of these cases they're finding the guy's lighter and is smokes. Don't find any of the clothes it's weird right but still i just just rounding it. You could say that it would be you know. Basically taking four times the amount of steps that it would take a human far. An adult serbia. Human they're not really human. So the reason i picked up the raymond case. He's seventeen years old so he you know i mean teenagers do dumb stuff. But it's just it's what they find it's weird. They find his rifle and a couple of hundred yards from the rifle in a swamp they find the interior liner of one of his mitla via. And that's it nothing else but the dog comes back. That's weird okay. Got beamed up a ufo. So weird okay. One more case here and then we'll take a break. Kenneth scott missing on nine. Twenty eight hundred fifty eight two pm. Norway lake in michigan age at disappearance four years so norway lake is located in the far northwest section of michigan in a region surrounded. By heavy forests and swamps. Elmer scott and his three sons took a short vacation at a hunting lodge or hunting camp at norway lake near the wisconsin border on the upper peninsula of michigan mid afternoon. September twenty eighth. Kenneth was following his two older brothers through the woods back to the camp but he couldn't keep up in the older brothers arrive at the camp realized that kenneth had vanished told. Their father and a search party is immediately organized. Local police rally every local person and organized nearly one thousand participants in the search kenneth helicopters airplanes horsemen ground. Troops worked through rain in their efforts to find the boy. The area they were searching. Had very thick woods with swamps bears and wild animals Temperatures in the region dropped a forty six degrees on some nights. That scott was missing early on thursday morning. Helicopter was flying low over the trees sauce. Small bundle on the ground. The helicopter crew led ground forces to the bundle and found that it was kenneth. He was dead on hillside quite a distance from the point where he disappeared an october third. Nineteen fifty eight article in the milwaukee sentinel had the following. The boy lay face up in a little clearing his light jacket beside him. Searchers said he had apparently wandered approximately fifteen miles through swamp and had come out onto higher ground before deciding to rest sometime on tuesday so Let's see. I think that's only a couple of days after he disappeared. It'll probably complex. The coroner who examined the body stated that he had died of tuesday died sometime tuesday of exposure. Yeah two days. So searchers stated that kenneth wander fifteen miles and today's through swamps in uphills politest says according to the book lost person behavior on page one thirty five children four to six years old are located more than ninety five percent of the time and less than a four point one mile radius from the point last seen if traveling on flat ground. This doesn't include traveling across swamps. Which means kenneth is so far outside the search guidelines recommended by experts. That it's ludicrous. He traveled more than triple. The distance of the maximum acknowledged in the search criteria of the book and he was found on up on a hill. So yeah i guess. They found him thursday. He had died. Tuesday and fifteen miles away four years old now. It's not impossible right you and i. We discussed this case the other night so that we could go back and forth. Kyle has a five year old souls five so we go back and forth discussing these these cases and i agree that this is not impossible. It's just it does seem to be outside of the norm Like the book says ninety five percent of the time children this age will be within a four mile radius on flat ground so that does say that five percent or found outside of it but are they getting that five percent from cases like this right basically it means every time you know. Under more normal circumstances. They won't go that far weird. Yeah all right and also weird that the the older brothers like would be. You know running off and leaving. Yeah well i kind of understood that you're walking through the woods and you're like come on man and he's kind of annoyed and you get to the camp and then you realize wow he's not back there and then you'd like data you know but to me that was like yeah you can you construct us reasonable scenario. Yeah to me. I was just like yes. I can see how that could happen. You're kind of you know the little brother is not keeping up and you're just wine well. The older brother is being an asshole about it. You know like zero sympathy but again. It's point of separation right. Yeah us all right. Let's take a break And we are back. Ladies and gentlemen brothers the serpent podcast exploring david. Politis is missing four one one books for the eastern united states and very strange disappearances of very young children So still in michigan here. The next case is for a little girl named carol van hullah went missing six twenty eight and hundred fifty nine at six pm. They were in dickinson. County picnic ground in michigan aged disappearance three years old. So mr and mrs joseph van and their four daughters traveled to the dickinson county picnic grounds at norway lake around dinnertime. The family realized that carol had somehow vanished. the family quickly search for their daughter and then notify law enforcement. So full-fledged search was started within one hour of her disappearance which included five hundred searchers helicopters and bloodhounds. The first night of the search was not eventful and searchers had a difficult time. Finding anything bloodhounds could not find the girl even though handler stated that they had found her sent from time to time. So this is another interesting thing. It's like this why. I'd like to talk to the these dog. People you know it's it's one thing when you don't know where the person like if you don't have a starting point but they know the little girl was at this caps at ground you know so they see the dogs can find the scent and the parents have items that belong to the right so this one. It says they couldn't find the bloodhounds. Couldn't find the girl even though handler stated that they had found her sent from time to time during the thirteenth that carol was missing. Searchers were working their way through a heavy swap. So notice how often swamps swamps when they thought they heard crying. They broke through heavy brush and found carol asleep on a small mound in the middle of water crying in her sleep. So in june. Thirtieth nineteen fifty-nine article in the milwaukee sentinel it says although the spot where carol was found is about one mile from the picnic grounds is believed. She had covered five miles in her wanderings. The search begun an hour. After carol disappeared involve the first major use of michigan wisconsin rescue unit organiz to include men and equipment of various agencies. Since kenny scott age four kingsford vanished under similar circumstances. Last september kenny was found dead of exposure. Four days later seven miles from where carol was discovered. Oh man how. How long before the year before. Yes so that's the the the previous case we had read was kenneth scott. That's why did these two cases in a row and that's why Politis has them in a row in here too. So basically the implication is that the possibly the same thing. Did this whatever it was. Yeah you know. Carol was found seven. Kenneth was found. Dead kenny was found dead of exposure seven miles from one care from where carol was discovered the previous year. That's weird. yeah so they they. They were when they are searching for carol. They used an a a search and rescue unit. That had been organized based on kenneth disappearance so a june thirtieth nineteen fifty-nine article in the sun says this following sounds of a child crying to eighteen-year-old youths wanted what wading through a swamp waist. Deep in water found carol asleep on mound surrounded by water. She was taken to the hospital for observation. She had numerous scratches and a slight case of exposure but was doing well so the next question here is if these eighteen year olds are waist deep in water in a swamp. How did this three year. Old little girl get to this little mound out in the middle of that water and he can't three-year-old swim. I guess Speech maybe some of them. Yeah yeah yeah sure but the real question is was the mount like the mound was it made of like burnt rocks. No i did. I was really hard to make a joke right now. But yeah yeah. It was burnt rocks from an old castle possibly in the slot burdon. Those ties joe. That's right that's right. We were going through the night. It's yeah it's hard to joke in this. But i had to do it. Yeah she was found alive. Yeah i know but that is. That's yeah. I don't know how the other thing is is is it just. Is it just water or is it like you know something that grown people have to wade through but like a child can kinda right like if there's a lot of grasses the walk on the grass on swan their way across the grass without sinking into the water. Yeah but probably not three years old is i mean could you ask them what happened No i mean you can but yeah so says to missing children from the same lake. In nine months to the day is an unusual set of events. Both children disappeared in a four hour window of each other so basically in the evening right. Carol was reported disappear Missing at six more time of year was it for both was at the same time of year no Kenneth was missing for some reason. My brain will not connect the numbers to the months. What is the ninth month september. Okay yeah had that same problem was nine. Yeah so september at two pm. He was reported missing. He was four same lake but a different area of the lake. Care went missing in july six. Is that now june. She's three years old and missing six. Pm so the window of disappearance is the same is like there's a four hour window there in in in terms of the time but yeah it's a different month so this is. This is the middle of the summer so she wasn't endanger of of exposure right but they still said that she had a slight case of exposure. But it might have been. I don't know if that meant that what that means. It's not cold exposure. Probably but she did stay out overnight. Okay so the book lost person behavior by robert coaster states that one to one two three year old child will be found ninety five percent of the time on flat ground in less than two miles from the point. Last seen carol had traveled over two and a half times that distance. So yeah he says. The more disturbing question is how. Carol got into the mound surrounded by water if the water is waist deep for adults. There is no way a three-year-old could walk through that to the ground. Plus she had to traverse the bushes and bad terrain. The explanation here doesn't make any sense plight says okay. So now we're going to illinois and this is a three year old named helen chenowitz missing three twenty eight in one thousand nine hundred forty the twenty eighth of what's the march march. Nine hundred forty six pm and breeds illinois so the jenner family owned a farm on the outskirts of breeds eight miles east of canton and early evening of march. Twenty eighth helen. Three years old was staying at the farm with William long seventeen years old. Who was a cousin and her younger brother. Howard who was five years old at some point helen disappears. Parents notified search immediately. Ensues police questioned william and took him into custody for further questioning. So police immediately suspect the seventeen year old cousin. While william was in custody law enforcement continued to search the area of the two miles from the farm for the little girl the night she disappeared. There was a rainstorm that lasted many hours and washed away. Any traction may have made forty seven hours. After helen disappeared. A deputy was walking to in our area to search when they were on an adjacent farm and climbing up the hill the hill the deputies were climbing included a pig lot and mud as they went up the hill. They saw a small bulge in the bud but the bulge appeared to have clean clothing. The deputies walked to the bulge and helen unconscious but alive. She had clean hands and feet and our clothes were barely wrinkled. The more amazing fact was her clothes. Were dry so i remember. It had been raining heavily hours. They pick the girl up and took her home and later to a hospital. She was three fourths of a mile from her farm. Forty-seven hours after she disappeared. The area she was found had been searched many times and she was not there on those times. April first article in the pittsburgh press stated. She couldn't tell the story of ventures. Sheriff ralph cook. Said the child's clothes face and hands were clean and that she hardly could have survived two nights in the open under unfavorable unfavourable weather conditions. The deputy who founder was interviewed by the telegraph herald on the thirty first of march and stated the following. Although the child was unharmed more said he did believe that she had been held captive by someone who decided to release her saturday because of fear of being detected her clothes were dry did not appear as though they had been wet. Despite the fact that heavy rain drenched the district the night she disappeared. so why was she unconscious. Like the know that's weird sleeping in the mud right. She's put in the mud in a like a pig. Area early are closer clean. Like something placed her their move and the fact that she was unconscious when found is like. How do you get that to happen right. Yeah it's strange so the guy you know that's another the guy picks her up she stays unconscious or does she wake up. You know what what was the type of unconsciousness we're dealing with here. Yeah but she knocked out right right. Yeah so the sheriff's department releases. The cousin william long without any charges filed because it was obvious when she had been found to everybody involved that he did not play any part in her disappearance. So plight says this is blatantly obvious to all law enforcement involved. In this case that helen had been abducted and later released it would appear that someone placed the girl in the pig lot just prior to her being found she was to clean to have been walking in the area and she was dry despite all the rain. So the real question is who was roaming near a remote farm in abducted the child. I mean i don't know i'm stuck on the unconscious thing. Because yeah if they took her to a hospital they should be like. Oh it'd be a one scores trauma to the head on the back of her head and knocked her out. There's nothing about that in there which suggests that is that they didn't find that right. It may have been some form of drug a drug. Okay but i mean they would have found that yeah. It's like did did. Would they know if she'd been chloroform. Nine hundred forty ed. So if somebody like chloroform door with irag rag yeah. That's a good point. I mean i. I'm not sure. Because i don't know too much. But it's possible. You could endanger of killing a child dea. But would they have tested. They're thinking you know. I i don't know in this case. It seems like the police were like look. She was abducted right. So maybe they would test for that. Like i just don't know. I don't know what the capabilities were in nineteen forty footprints in the mud in the pig pen. Hi guys but i guess if it was surged there might have been a lotta footprints around it. Yeah so then it would have been easy cover for somebody to come in. Yeah yeah and it's interesting like they were. They were finding nothing. Why did the person decide to go back over there to to drop her down yet to let her go. It's like were they endanger of being discovered if the search kept going is that what is that what the deal is and so they're like i don't wanna be found so i'll leave the child so they'll find the child and then they'll stop looking and they won't find me. Is that like you kind of see that possibly with a lot of these kids who are found alive especially when they're found in places that were being searched. Somebody knows where. The searchers are is worried. Maybe that the search are getting close to their location. They don't want to be found themselves and they're willing to let the kid go in order to stop the search so that they're not located which is weird creepy. Yeah and how do they get in there. Undetected in the middle of a these places have already been searched. exactly it's so strange so we're still in illinois hanna. Hanna clicky missing six thirteen o seven. So let's see that and it. Would you know seven. It's on a farm. Sorry you got to get into the farm. Yeah and are you on foot carrying the child. Yeah while there's a search area going on nearby right now. Are you driving into the farm. Yeah and it seems like you know the police would be like all right. Let's talk to the farmer. Yeah you know anyone drive into your property right. that's weird. Yeah it is that those are questions i ask. Is it possible that there was just some like real creeper on this farm nearby. That stole the girl you know. I don't know but that was like how are you going to raise a child. You know. I don't know it does happen. People are kept in basements. I don't know this is strange. Okay so. Hannah was five years old but then the fear of being identified. Yeah yeah so it's like they don't have a fear of being identified right. It's strange all right so politest says some of the greatest memories we have as children are the special times we spend with grandparents. And that's what hannah clementi was doing june thirteenth in two thousand seven. Hannah had left her home to go boating with her grandfather. David clementi who is sixty two. David hannah were riding the waves. And enjoying the solitude offer remote locations along a stretch of the river Moments is just west of the lasalle fish and wildlife area of the wetlands nature preserve in illinois. There are areas along the stretch of river. That are very wild and lush and with very few people so sometime in the late afternoon or early evening david pulled their up to an island in the middle of the river. He wrote the boat into position and jumped into the water. And for some unknown reason he did not resurface. Hannah lost sight of him. She was wearing armed floaters and apparently. She went into the river and came out on the sand of a nearby bank. Admittedly this portion of the story is vague. And hannah has offered a lot of clarity. So they're they're getting this from the child when she was found later okay. Once david didn't return from their trip hannah's parents contact the sheriff. A search ensues two days. The sheriff's office for two days. A sheriff's office felt that hannah must have drowned. They were scraping the bottom of the river looking for a body but didn't find it on the fifteenth of june. The sheriff found the body of david floating downstream approximately three fourths of a mile from where he went in. The sheriff's team was on the sand recovering. The body of david when out of the bushes behind them walked a naked five year. Old girl eating a handful of wild mulberries. Gosh it was hannah. She had scratches over entire body. No clothes on and was in good health. She was taken to the hospital and found to be in good condition. Her parents were shocked. She was alive and equally shocked that she walked out of the vegetation and right up to the searchers almost like she was delivered. They're fed and on time. So what happened the same place but this is the place that they found his body yet. They're recovering his body on the bank of the river and she just walks out of the woods behind him wearing no clothes holding a handful of berries. That is crazy. That's so the all this stuff about him diving into the water. After tying up the boat and not coming back up that was that was what she told people after having been recovered the nobody witnesses those details. But she's like yeah. We tied up the boat on a rock in the middle of the river. He jumped in and just never surfaced and she is wearing armed floaters she. Kind of freaks out she jumps in and then. The river sweeps her to the to the bank. But she doesn't have any other details about where she was missing for five days and how she just walked up behind the searchers three quarters of a mile down the river from where her father or her grandfather jumped in the water and never surfaced. So it's like i guess could have jumped in and broken his neck or something like he jumped he dives in themselves. But it's weird that he didn't surface. I don't know it's a strange story weird. Yeah i'm going all fricken. Ufo on the they is. That story implanted bright. Yeah is it a screen memory. Yeah yeah and i. I wish there was more details on the condition of the fathers or grandfathers body. Just says that. They found his body floating downstream so it was not even on the shore of his floating downstream. Three four win in party would would have been just not like in the middle of right on the banks near near the bank somewhere. They were on the sand recovering the body and then she walked out. It just doesn't tell you. Did he drown or did he hurt himself. It doesn't say there's no details. That's what i'm saying. Okay arkansas god. What a horrific experience. Yeah she has to grow up remembering. Yeah let's see. She was five years old. So yeah you might have some memories from when you're five. It's pretty rare though. There are few and far between right but yes. You'll probably remember that. Okay so arkansas. Florence jackson went missing. September six nine hundred thirty seven oak grove in arkansas aged disappearance for years old Mister and mrs. jackson and their daughter florence traveled from their home in chelsea to visit relatives in oak grove in arkansas. I just thought of something. Sorry i keep doing this chelsea if the water was cold and he's like a older guy yeah he jumps in and against ashoka the and just had a heart attack or something yeah it was in june in illinois so i guess it could have been cold water. I don't know just that was. Yeah but it is important to look at the season when this takes six right. That's june july june. it's june. July is seven. We need calendar up on the screen. So i can see okay so florence and her parents went to oak grove. Arkansas monday afternoon. September six nineteen thirty seven. The parents went with florence grandfather to a wooded section outside the city while florence and the grandfather took a walk to an abandoned sawmill halfway to the mill florence stated. She wanted to go back to the car or her mother and father relocated turned and ran back towards the car and she never made it. The grandfather gets back to the auto and finds florence was not there and they call thorn so this you know right there. The first thing that people will say well the grandfather did it. He's the last person knows the last to see them. Alive is the is the immediate suspect. He ha- he is. He's coming he comes back and says well. She said she ran back to the car. Yeah right so that would be the immediate suspicion. The area of the area of berryville and oak grove responded en masse as four hundred searchers attempted to find her find florence for four days deputies and deputies. Volunteers covered a vast area in an attempt to find the girl and they did find evidence on september ninth nineteen thirty seven article in the joplin globe. Had the following shoes and stockings of the little girl were discovered late tuesday afternoon by searchers within half a mile of where she was last seen tonight however no further trace had been found. The stockings were found on the side of a ridge. And we're about fifteen yards apart. The sheriff said down the mountainside and high on another ridge a quarter mile away. Her shoes were found so this starts to rule out the grandfather because he's not gonna have time to run all these ridges before he comes back to the car to tell the parents that he doesn't know where is so this finding stump the searchers. Why would a little girl take stockings off at fifteen yard intervals. It was almost as though someone was carrying her stripping her clothing as he or she was running searchers. Were also a stymied by heavy rain. That hit the Hit the oak grove area after she disappeared reading further in the same globe. Article is the following. I believe she is alive. Share for said but finding her. We'll be like finding a needle in a haystack. This country is the roughest that you can imagine late on september tenth so that that's four days after she went missing a farmer's wife was outside or residents seven miles from where florence disappeared and thought. She heard someone calling to her. Mrs awa godwin walked around her residence down to indian creek and saw naked florence jackson asking for help. All of her clothing was gone. Her hair was full of burs. She was carrying a tomato and a handful of sheep sorrel. What's what's sheep sorrel like food for sheep. I don't know man look it up. Yeah she told mrs godwin that she didn't think she could cross the creek and could she come and get her so. The woman goes through. The creek grabs florence brings her into the house. authorities are called. Florence told the godwin's that she had eaten wild grapes tomatoes and lots of sheep sorrel as a flowering plant considered a perennial weed as native to europe russia. The middle east north africa as well as being prevalent in all parts of the united states. It's been historically used to treat inflammation scurvy cancer in diarrhea okay. I don't even know what to say to that. So she tells her yeah. She's eating grapes. Tomatoes and sheep sorrel mr. Mrs jackson were escorted escorted to the godwin farmer. They met with florence their daughter florence was taken to a local hospital where she was found to have scratches almost her entire over her entire body. A mild temperature but was otherwise find. Fine was at the hospital. Local law enforcement officers did meet and question her about her ordeal. The consensus of police was there was a good likelihood. She was abducted and they wanted complete story. The north west arkansas time rental lengthy story about this incident on september eleventh nineteen thirty seven. Here are a few excerpts. Local officers listened closely to everything she said. In view of the theory she might have been temporarily abducted but it was difficult to distinguish between actual experience and what she might have dreamed in fitful slumber in the forest. How old is she again. four years old. Yeah it's in my experience you try to get even simple like what happened and they don't give you anything or they give you ask again. It's different as just like right. It's really hard to sometimes. It's you can get the same information every time but it's you just never know this. Let's let's say that. Let's give us an example. If i came to your house while seoul was playing outside and i was like. Hey let's go to the top right and so he jumps in my car with me and we drive up to the top. And then later i bring him back down and let him out in the yard and you guys are like freaking out searching for him everywhere and i let them back out in the yard and i take off you know and then you ask him where to go and he was tell you we'll rest pick me up and we went up to the top right. He would give you at least that person picked you up. You know like there would be. It would be not totally not understandable. Like he might make up stories about what he did while he was up there. You know we were playing. You know the dinosaur whatever but you would get the idea that some person had picked him up you know and we went somewhere. I don't know yeah. It could be like that or he might freak out. Because we're freaking out. Oh yeah okay now and not want to say what happened because we're upset and it doesn't mean these. I don't know it's weird. Yeah okay. Yeah you might. You definitely could possibly get that information should we. Should we try for science now. I think the watchers going to join us though. Okay good yeah. He said five minutes which is probably like twenty minutes so yeah okay okay so later. The same article states one night. She said florence said she slept on a log or inside a log. Possibly when darkness fell she told of climbing a tree another night she called sleeping on a flat rock and she said she got cold and call for her mother. It was unclear whether she was calling for her mother or someone else in the area later. The article states once she hid in the woods when she saw two strange men it was unclear who these men were or what they what was strange about them now. This may. When i was reading this i was thinking. Maybe these are the searchers. It's possible that she hid from searchers. Yeah so one of the more fascinating parts of the story dealt with florence's next statement quote. She told us spending one of the nights in a house. Deep in the forest quote after a black man and woman picked me up and took me there. she said and related that they quote. Put me on a cot that night then gave me breakfast and told me to get going on. I was mad and hit them with my hands. She said wow. That is weird. No such cottage exists. I write the writer of the story. Stated that he or she couldn't tell by her recollection. What was true or false. That's that's what i mean. Yeah yeah that's you might get the information but you never know which right to you which parts of the information are actually what happened right because you'll get all this stuff and then when you ask again you might get something different like okay. Well the first thing they told me was this and then later they told me this other thing. Yeah yeah but so the details aside from what the kids because i agree with you it's hard to parse what the children's day so aside from that the details are she vanishes basically after telling her grandfather that she's going to go back to the car point of separation. The grandfather finishes his walk to the. He doesn't think there's a big deal right if we're gonna take him at his word. Which apparently the cops did. He obviously didn't abductor. She showed up way later when he was involved in. The you didn't do this right. She was never found. It's easy to think. Well maybe he killed her. Whatever something weird like. That accident happened that he was trying to hide from everybody but basically according to his story they're walking up a trail to a sawmill away from where the family had the car and she decides part of the way there that she doesn't want to go and she's gonna turn back and he's like in view of where we were not a big deal so he keeps walking. She never makes it back to the car. They don't nobody realizes this until he back because the parents don't know that she's turned around a comeback right. He doesn't know that she didn't make it until he gets back. They start the search immediately. They part of her clothing like her stockings on one ridge and her shoes on another one across the valley. The rest of clothes are never found. Though she shows up at that woman's house across the creek from that woman's house totally naked and she's got food right tomato. He's holding it tomato and whatever the soil. Is this this herb that you can eat. I guess yeah and she says she ate wild grapes tomatoes tomatoes growing. I don't know maybe the farm had tomatoes. I don't know it's a strange story. That is really weird. Yeah and she was missing for you know days. Let's the day five days that's insane so those are the those are. That's the data that we have now. Her story makes it really strange but even without her story about strange cabins in the woods with people who let her sleep on a cot and until their to leave giving her breakfast and she got mad and hit them with my hands or she's like pounding on these sanches out in the middle of the woods. 'cause they're making like i don't wanna go get out of here a little girl. We gave breakfast and it's crazy that like that plant does sheep's sorrel is like growing wild around there. I guess maybe they she learned. She could have learned that you can eat that. Yeah yeah it's strange And i mean that's totally plausible. I'll also point out how look how often berries show up. You know And politis makes a point to this to us like berries are appointed interest You know Okay so still in arkansas catherine van. All st- missing six sixteen nine hundred and forty-six at two thirty pm devil's den state park age disappearance eight so the van also family left their home in kansas city and went vacationing in western arkansas. They drove to devil's den. State park rented cabin after unpacking. The father Took gene thirteen. Bobby was eleven and kathryn. Who was eight to lease creek in an area where there was a small dam. Once they arrived at devil's den. Dem children started to play in the water and catherine fell into a deep portion of the upper dam where an unknown woman supposedly pulled her out and told her not to play. In the deepwater. Catherine listened and went to the outflow of the creek below the dam. The outflow had several large boulders and rocks and this was the last location. The catherine was seen to thirty pm on june sixteenth. The elevation of the dam is approximately one thousand feet although peaks in the area high sixteen hundred feet after a short period of time. Catherine's brothers realized that she hadn't seen her and they notify the father very short time span. Many people are looking for Once an initial search could not locate her the county sheriff and state park. Rangers were notified in a formal search was organized on june eighteenth. So that would be two days later. Washington county sheriff cap gully was in charge of the search was focusing his efforts in a sixteen foot deep pool of water beneath the dam under the belief that catherine had drowned The moberly monitor. A newspaper ran an article on june eighteenth stating the following. The sheriff said it was unlikely that the youngster had wandered into the wooded section of the park and that she apparently drowned. It was at approximately this time. That newspaper reported that catherine's father had a nervous breakdown and had placed under doctor's care. I can totally understand your. The sheriff drained the pool below the dam and confirmed that she did not drown at lot. At least not in that pool. Sheriff is assistance. We're focusing on the water. Very few resources were being put into searching the surrounding thick forests and the times. We're about to change. The superintendent of the state parks decided to respond to the search eventually met with the sheriff. They shared duties with the sheriff and immediately started to put state police. Dogs national guard troops and others into the mountains to look for the girl So the arkansas times. On june twenty second ran the following statement. There is a possibility that catherine was taken from the area by passing motorists or other persons when search and rescue leaders started to make claims about possible abductions. It is an indicator that they are starting to believe that the victim may not be found on saturday. June twenty second at approximately three thirty. Pm the group of searchers were seven air miles from where catherine was last seen. They were making their way up a mountainside calling her name as they near the summit. Catherine calls out here. I am university of arkansas. Puerto chadwick was the first to find catherine. She was wearing just a bathing suit nothing else. She had scratches over entire body riddled with insect bites. The santa fe new mexican ran a story on june twenty fourth of the following statement. She was found seven miles as the crow flies from the vacationers retreat where she said out but trail. Wise mountaineers believe. She had walked dozens of miles dozens of miles through the forests. She was found in an area downstream from the devils in dam where she vanished She was later interviewed by law enforcement. Sources and stated that she remembered sleeping in the grass on the first night but doesn't remember the next day's or night's whoa she's eight so like yeah. I have no experience with. She did state that she found a cave high up on a mountainside spent the last few before she was found. She stated that the cave had a pool of clean water and there were berries that she found in the area and ate them The recovery of made worldwide news and nineteen forty-six. This eight year old girl was missing for six days and nights without shoes without pants without a coat yet managed to survive even though this was her first time ever in the woods rescuers claim that catherine would have have had to have walked to walk between twenty four to thirty six miles to get to the location where she was found wearing no shoes. She managed to make your way through thick and thorny bushes to reach the location over cave near a mountaintop at nearly six hundred feet higher in elevation from where she was last seen. She defies every search and rescue profile regarding eight year old girl. Is this possible. She had never been in the woods but new berries she could eat now that one. I you know if you get hungry enough. You're just eat them. I don't know if that means that she knew which ones were. Good unless there's like poisonous ones and not all right. Yes and she only eats the non-poisonous that's weird but it doesn't say that specifically and also she just gave on a mountaintop with fresh water springs side of it. Yeah so so. This is cool because you could dig into these stories a little more by looking at the very specific area and looking at what grows there and you determine the type of berries that might be growing at that time of year. That's a good. How many poisonous ones are there versus. You know so this is you could actually dig into this and i wanna know like does she have like are there. Is there poison oak poison ivy. or anything else. Did she have any that or did she somehow totally avoided you know. Of course. I guess you can't get those answers. Probably up nineteen forties. She was hospitalized for two days and released an excellent condition. The doctors stated that she was suffering from multiple cuts and bruises and a minor case shock. But there was no mention of dehydration or suffering from lack of food and no no mention of poison. Oak poison ivy right. So there you go devil's den state park. Yeah taking a break. We'll be back with A few more cases in this book. And we're back fourth and final segment. Sadly yeah this is a really good stuff and also we are joined by the watcher. He joined in at the end. The last segment there man buddy. I know this new schedule doesn't work out for you. But i wish you were here for this tire. Show me too yeah it. It sucks when work in the way of podcasting feel like life needs to rearrange its priorities. Yeah but glad to have you even if it's for one segment i mean twenty. Five percent is better than euro-. Yeah i think unless my math built me. I think it is better is a relative term but i would say more. It's definitely more zero. I'm going to mute the mike okay. So i'm not gonna read this. Go through this all the details of this. But i do just want to mention it because there is a strange detail in here. So this is Oklahoma went missing on january march thirtieth nine hundred eighty eight at lake texoma in oklahoma age. Two years old name is larry dwayne cribs. So larry larry cribs in his son. were on the third day of camp of a camping trip to lake texoma in southeastern oklahoma. Larry dwayne were walking on the bank of a river that feeds the lake. And we're gathering firewood. They were fifty feet from the river with the father walking in front and maybe eight paces to the rear. A september eleventh article in the daily democrat states. Hell larry recounts facts the disappearance. He says that he walked ahead of his son when he turned around and looked dwayne was gone. He never recalls hearing any splash or any noise. So this one immediately again. The father is the suspect right there on their their three days into a camping trip so he has plenty of time to do something terrible. I guess but apparently he was. They didn't suspect him. The article went on to report that investigators did follow a fair a pair of small child footprints that lead into a small puddle and did not come back out implying that something picks them up. He's in the puddle right So the disappearance of larry occurred at the far northern end of the lake on the stretch where the historic fort ouachita is located. This area has confederate a competitor cemetery and some extremely remote in desolate areas. It's directly surrounded by the area directly surrounded by the river is lush with vegetation. There was a massive search. This did include the river being dragged for a body. Nothing was found fifteen years after the incident. Larry's father contacted a psychic and ask for assistance. So this is this is another. Like i think he puts it this this in there because it implies that the data's is still trying to find out what happened in other words that he didn't do it possibly psychic state of this. Somebody did abduct. The boy put his hand over his mouth and took him away. You know whether you believe it or not so plight says this is another case where i believe the father. But facts defy belief child molesters and abductors go to great lengths to ensure their identity is hidden and they are never seen the idea that someone hid in the bushes waited for the cribs to walk by just eight paces behind his dad jumps out and grabs. The boy and runs off is far fetched the person committing this crime would have to be extraordinarily fast strong stealthy and know the area and a route to escape very well. Remember the risk of being caught in the middle of nowhere trying to take a child could be very severe. How the abductor. No the father wouldn't turn back and look at the price precise moment that he or she was taking the child. It appears that. Larry walked into a small puddle and was taken before he walked out the snow tracks leaving the puddle. This is another of a long line of cases where children are taken while in very close proximity to their parents. And larry cribs has never been found a two year old. Yeah the camping right. That is weird. I agree eight paces is like forty feet. Does it right now. I mean yeah. I mean forty feet in. Yeah so you're walking in front of your two year old in the woods right. Seems like. I don't know that's not i wouldn't. I don't think i'd be doing that. Yeah yeah i agree to me. It was the the detail of the surgers. Finding the footsteps going into the puddle. And not coming out is the interesting part but that could be anything you know. In other words those were that's what they found so it could be the debt. I dunno. just say this strange detail there. Okay also in oklahoma missing on april twenty second of nineteen ninety nine named ernest. Matthew cook twenty seven years old so earnest was living at what watcher. Sorry Real quick backs coming in so a pace is roughly five feet. Though he's eight paces yeah forty feet. Yeah also. Lake texoma is the twelfth largest reservoir man-made lake in the united states well one of the army corps of engineers like being project so when he room for something of wander around and not be seen and do some crazy stuff and it's also Through some them i Interesting like eroded out gorgeous and stuff from the red river where it's dammed up. Okay really sort of it. It's very reminiscent and very close to the reservoir that is near rockwall. Leave it or not though. Yeah i agree with you that this that the father walking in front of a two year old forty feet out in front of him is. That's a little sketchy. Yeah yeah yeah okay so back to ernest here. Ernest was living in a camper on property belonging to his grandfather in a rural area of bosch oklahoma. He was recently divorced divorce in the father of two young girls on the night of april. Twenty second at ten thirty. pm Earns father was driving him back to his camper. His father stated that his son got outta the truck started to walk towards a wooded area that kept the camper wave goodbye and this was the last time he was ever seen so his dad goes back to the camp the next day to check on his son and he's not in the camper. He did find his sons overnight bag in the camper. There was opened with his shoes on top of it along with clean clothes and photos of his two daughters so john the dads searches. The immediate area doesn't see his son two days later john returns to the camp with his With his dad. They both searched the area two hundred yards from the camper and out in the pasture. They find earnest's sleeping bag and pillow. They continue to look and further past the sleeping bag. They find a small road in the middle of the dirt road. They find a barefoot track on the right side and a boot track on on the other side as they push down the road and towards a mud puddle they again another barefoot track and a boot track john cook was later interviewed and say that he does not believe that his son left the camper voluntarily so in other words the the implication here is something wearing boots like snags his son out of his camper while he's sleeping and so the the barefoot track is his son because shoes are in the camper and they find the betting you know way out so it's like something grabs him while he's in his sleeping bag. I don't know it's such a weird story album the he's twenty seven. Yeah there's a picture of him so it polite says it appears as though something occurred to earn us while he was sleeping in his camper. It'll also appear was not wearing shoes and was in his sleeping bag when his sleep was interrupted. The question is was. He grabbed and carried while in his sleeping bag was forced to carry it. The idea of carrying the sleeping bag for warmth may make some sense but the idea of carrying the pillow makes very little sense. Yeah we don't know if ernest made the barefoot marks in the mud or someone else we don't know if the boot marks were there previously or if the person with ernest made boot mark so in other words it could have been totally unrelated. Yeah we also do not know whether earnest's had made the barefoot marks or whether they had been there several days there are many aspects of this story that need further study. it is somewhat similar to the disappearance of stephanie's stewart from a lookout tower alberta canada stephanie disappeared in the middle of the night along with her sheets blanket and pillow refer to missing four one western united states for details on stephanie's disappearance weird. Yeah so she. She disappears out of a lookout tower in the middle of nowhere along with all the bedding including the pillow. So it's a strange. I don't know it's a story. Okay all right this one. I picked specifically because of the disability. Christopher jones. he's thirty seven years old when he disappeared See january february march april in april the fifth of april two thousand six from arc from holland. Arkansas hall and arkansas is located twenty miles. North of little rock is twenty miles east of the ozark national forest. Parts of the perimeter of the city can be quite remote chris. Jones live in one of those remote sections in a house trailer. He had a white picket fence and a large creek running to the rear of his property. He had just returned home prior to his disappearance. He had been in the hospital with a severe case of gout that had struck both of his legs making it almost impossible to walk. He was using crutches to move around on april fifth. Friends and family went to visit. Chris and found the front door closed but not locked. His crutches were leaning on his favorite chair. His vehicle was parked in the driveway and nothing was moved or stolen shane. Dickinson is chris's cousin and was interviewed during the investigation. Shane stated it was obvious that he was out of there. But we don't know how who or why there were continuous ground and air searches And the property surrounding the trailer. Nothing evalu- was ever found. Chris had a daughter who was away at the time of the disappearance Let's see law enforcement. Officials say to. The chris did not have a criminal record was not under investigation for anything and was working as an electrician prior to his onset of gout. So the reason. I included this. Because he couldn't walk you know and they disappeared without a trace in the crutches are still in the trailer his car is still there. Crutch are still there so is that it. I mean that's it. Yeah so his. The reason they mentioned the daughter is because she died in an auto accident after he So yeah three months after he disappeared. The family we're hoping for some reason that he would surface for the funeral. In other words they were still maybe he disappeared on purpose but he didn't show up for the funeral. So yeah that's there's not very many details it just to me. What stuck out was the dude. Basically couldn't walk without crutches and yet he was he disappeared. There was a big search and he's never been found. Wow yeah okay. now we're going to alabama. This is a case of nora. More she was seventy eight years old. So this is another one. That's not one of the children's cases but there's like one detail in there that i just find really strange so she went missing seven eighteen in one thousand nine hundred five at four. Pm garden dale alabama approximately fifteen miles north of birmingham. Alabama is a small town town of garden. Dale mrs noura moore was living in an elderly elderly living facility in a rural area. When she went outside for an afternoon of sun at approximately four pm on july she had disappeared officials from the home searched. The immediate area of the residents for the woman could not find her. The people who manage the home were surprise. They couldn't find mrs moore. Because she had severe ankle and hip injuries that greatly inhibited her ability to walk. So there's that the formal search lasted six days. Searchers found nothing for the first five days. We had them greatly concerned on the sixth day. A searcher was one fourth of a mile from the home when they found mrs moore lying on her side near a creek in a semi conscious condition. She was missing her shoes and stockings and she complained that someone was continuously throwing water on her while she was out in the woods. She could never explain who was throwing the water. She was taken to a hospital. Found to be in satisfactory condition considering six days in the woods as searchers were carrying her from the forest. They found broom sage in the pockets of her sweater. The searchers asked where she got the broom sage she could not explain it when she was later questioned about the six days in the woods. She couldn't remember what had happened to her. How she got to where she was found. She had brier scratches over her entire body but she was in better condition than many searchers thought. She should be. How did she have varied evade airplanes searchers and others for six days is the true question. Many believe she was placed in the location. She where she was eventually found. She was someplace else during the majority of the search. How and where she got. The broom sages another million dollar question. Is broom sage broom. sage is an edible perennial shrub. Gosh you with delightful fragrance that lives in the southwestern portion of the united states. How the brooms. Age got to alabama and into nura. Moore's pockets is a fascinating question. Polite says so watcher. One of the other She perennial plants was sheep sorrel that one of the little girls is holding. Yep i'd be interested to see. She hasn't malaria broom sage stuffed in the pockets ever jacket and she's lying on the because she can't walk. Yeah and she's like something was throwing water at me. So strange she seventy what she's in an assisted living so it's possible that she was. You know dementia. I don't know but the point. There's just details here. You're just like okay. So even if she was your and it'd be interesting to know. Was the broom sage. Fresh it dried right with like yep the fact that she had brier scratch over her body indicates that she was probably carried through the briar patches. As it was nearly impossible for her to walk to samsung doesn't care about brier question. The sheep sorrel. What was the story of the person who had that in their pockets. Though they she was holding it in her hand. Yeah that she had eaten it. She'd been eating as six four something. Yeah young sheep. Sorrel is commonly used in alternative cancer treatment. Yeah we looked at up. It's got all these medicinal qualities. Yeah it's considered a weed. Yeah but yeah and also has Anti semitic anti-diarrhea can help with scurvy. Someone goes for a long time without vitamin c. This girl had been missing like five or six days. She was holding a tomato and sheep sorrel and she was totally naked when they found her. She basically walked out of the woods and into onto a women's property miles away from where she disappeared. Like this. look up the other one else. What similarities are you. Know so tomato Tomatoes by the way are incredibly high in antioxidants and vitamin c. The connection i between those two is vitamin c plus something. That fight scurvy. I don't really know enough about pediatrics. The know if there's a risk but if she was sick they had a cold or caught something vitamin c. Especially in high dose in is very beneficial to the immune system So there's there's something there The other one the. What was the other room. sage there. We go Bruhns sage also known as whiskey grass. It's got a bunch of different names but broom. Sage is an american desert shrub. Like you were saying in the south west desert. Shrimp very strange but it is used for landscaping but also an aside from being drought resistant has a well developed rule root system it holds things in place it has properties that are considered to be painkilling I would imagine based on being in the sage family. And no other things that i know about it. That you have a chemical compound close to of silica acid which is also found in willow bark. That is common aspirin like giving her medicine. That would be the way that it seems. It's also an animal. Hey it's thrown in with alpa on occasion. I'm not really sure what the reason is for that. Okay so so then. In that case somebody with a farm or something might have a bunch of broom. Say it'd be right weird weird details on that story. Are she's seventy eight. She can't walk yet. She evaded airplanes searchers and everybody else for six days a she's got scratches over body which is to be expected if you're trying to wander through the woods but i don't know you know especially if you can't walk well but she has brooms age and she claims that something kept throwing water at her. She's not famished leg. I mean you don't eat for six days right. Yeah yep okay. Moving to georgia. Murray upshaw junior two years old at age of disappearance age of disappearance missing november eighth nineteen forty around noon. Thirteen miles north of carterville georgia. So betty murray upshaw ran a farm thirteen miles north of kernville and four hundred yards off the knoxville highway. This is a rural location with very few neighbors at noon on november eighth. Betty looked out her window and saw murray junior two years old playing near the tractor in the backyard. There was a small lawn thick forests. Start behind the tractor in barn. Betty looked into the backyard. minutes later. Murray was gone so we were talking about this. You're like you know. How long is this really. You look away. You're doing the things you think and you look out there gone. You're like just a couple of minutes but have been fifteen twenty. She runs into the backyard. Yelling murray's name but does not receive an answer. She goes more quickly and cover more area and still couldn't find her son and then realized that they're eight more month old terrier puppy nikki that had been playing with the child was also gone. She remember that it had been only minutes since she last saw the boy and he couldn't have gone far being just two when she couldn't find her son. She summons neighbors and police to assist in the search hours after murray disappeared. There are hundreds of volunteers in police combing the ranch. The search was very organized and people thought they were doing a thorough hours. After murray left and in the middle of the search heavy rains hit the area of the farm rains. That didn't stop for over two days within the first thirty six hours of murray's disappearance murray senior told the press that he felt his son had been kidnapped. He didn't think that his son could get outside the search zone and not have been found at this point three days into the search volunteers. We're looking two miles from the farm in a very rugged area and found nicky. The dog walking. They picked it up and brought it back to the to the ranch to the amazement of everyone. Including the sheriff. Nikki was dry clean and well-fed. She was not hungry even though she had been gone for over. Seventy hours. A november twelfth nineteen forty article in the pittsburgh times stated the following in addition to being dry and clean referring to nikki. It had been fed so recently that it declined food. They said the dog had been missing for over seventy hours. Sullivan term these circumstances peculiar and suspicious but added quickly that no clues to substantiate it. Kidnapping theory had been uncovered. So yeah a dog missing. Seventy a little puppy. Missing for seventy hours is so well-fed that declines food when they try to feed wondering what the contents of the stomach where right further the article states everything else in that section is wet from rain said major lynn sullivan state highway patrol chief. We can't explain how the dog came out of the woods without being wet unless somebody brought him there in a car. On the fourth day of the formal search murray's body was found at the base of pine tree on a rugged mountainside one half one and a half miles from his home a november thirteenth article in the saint petersburg times described the boy's body slight scratches appeared on the shelves arms and legs and his nose was bashed in later. The same article. State searchers said that leaves and pine twigs near the body indicated the little dog had bedded down beside his master for at least part of the time since the child disappeared after the body was discovered. Bardo county sheriff. George w gaddis went to the scene and gave a press conference san jose mercury news article on november twelfth stated. George w gats called for an immediate inquest. Now they're now they're suspicious. Several articles stated that murray's body did not show any signs of violence even though one article did note the scratches and bruises. The inquest concluded that murray died from exhaustion exposure. A typical conclusion when there is little evidence of anything else. Okay so plight is has a case. Summary here where he says As in many other cases in which a two year old is missing from a rural setting there are questions about the disappearance and condition of the body. What really happened to his nose. There is one mentioned in one paper about this condition no one else wanted to mention it. Scratches and bruises about the body may be normal but why he on a rugged hillside several articles state that nikki is believed to have been lying next to murray because the ground around him was pressed down and twigs. Were broken eight month. Old terrier is a very small dog. So how do they know about this dog. That did this. There are no mention of nikki's hair found at the scene. So how did they come to their conclusions Yes so they're wondering why. The dog wasn't so soaking wet He was found on the other side of the mountain more than a half mile from where the body was eventually found. So why wasn't the dog wet. So yeah and the The sheriff felt there was enough suspicion surrounded surrounding this event that he called for an inquest into the case but politis says he could not find anything that discussed the results of the inquest. How far away was it again. This is he was found one and a half miles from his house okay. Yep and he was two years old all right this is. This is another strange one. This is an adult Christopher tompkins that's fair. The reason to from two thousand into the january twenty fifth two thousand two in georgia age disappearance twenty years. Okay says mrs anne. Mackenzie is the mother of chris tompkins and was the babysitter for a man who owned a surveying company and and sun kris worked for him on his four-man team on january. Twenty fifth. Two thousand two stated. The chris left the home at eight ten. Am and drove to the surveys surveyors office where. He parked his car and road to the worksite. With the business owner. Chris work the morning hours with three other men without any incident but shortly after lunch. All the workers were walking on the shoulder of highway eighty five. The employees are approximately fifty feet apart walking on the highway. When work associates last saw chris he was near the back of the group and near the side of the road. A minute. more past the crew looked behind. Them and chris was gone. There's a tall. Barb wire fence between the shoulder of the road and the private property that borders the highway. when the employee's went back to the area recruits last seen. They found one of his boots lying near the fence and some coins lying near the boots on the grass. They also found tools that chris had him lying and scattered around the ground near the fence. The owner of the business called chris's mother and explained what had happened. They waited until four. Fifteen pm tried to report him to. The sheriff is missing but the sheriff said they wouldn't take a report until he was missing twenty four hours so this is common. If it's an adult police will assume like we'll i mean as an adult. He can do what he wants. Yeah they're not missing until twenty four hours later so twenty four hours passing. Investigate investigation started. The sheriff's found a piece of blue cloth on the barbed wire near where the boot was found and it was five or that match the blue jeans. Chris had been wearing the area on the other side of the. Barb wire fence was best described as heavily wooded with swamps snakes and very thick vegetation almost a year after the disappearance of christopher the owner of that land where chris would have had to have crossed once over. The fence reported to the sheriff that he found chris other boot in the field. This piece of evidence was turned over to the sheriff so polite says in his summary It's been over eight years since chris disappeared. And no one has heard from him I believe this shows. Something very bad happened to chris when he went over the barbed wire and he doesn't believe this was a voluntary disappearance details from the scene making believe that chris was involved in a struggle. The struggle that either ended up with chris getting knocks down or turned sideways. So that coins tools fell from his pockets. There's no way that anyone would walk into the area on the other side of the barb wire fence without boots or shoes. There's no logical reason why someone would take the shoes off. If they wanted to voluntarily leave the job site. It appears that may have been dragged over the fence because cloth from his pants were found in the barbed-wire if someone is carried her turn sideways tools and coins and personal items may fall from their pockets. As as happened in this case so again you know the first the first easy assumption is one of the co workers did something to him and they all you know that they're not getting the full details there but i don't know story. Yeah i mean. They're fifty feet apart on a stretch of road. It's just like i don't know people get hit by a car. And sometimes they're boots fly off. Yeah that's possible. Yeah but what. The body goes why. There's no blood and you know all right as just weird man. Yeah it's a strange story. The yeah you're a. I didn't even think of the car. That's a. that's a good point. I mean you. Yeah because if it was he was just alone. Yeah and somebody. Because they weren't paying attention they might just what grabbed the body and take it and just dispose of it somewhere right could be. Yeah but these only fifty feet away from people. How do you do that You know how they not here. Yeah yeah it's weird. Yeah all right one more here. David tipton missing august first. Two thousand four from stockbridge georgia age disappearance for years sometime early in the morning on august. I in two thousand and four. David tip woke before his parents unlocked. The rear d'oro door of his rural home and disappeared into the wild countryside south of atlanta stacey and robert. David's parents awoke to attend sunday morning. Church they went to david's room and found that he was gone and the rear door of the house was open. Robert went to the rear yard called for. David did not receive a response. A call to emergency services brought an immediate response from law enforcement. the tip told law enforcement. The son was mildly autistic. The call for searchers brought off-duty fireman local residents in many on-duty law enforcement personnel sunday afternoon brought a response of several canine teams to search for david. The dog teams reportedly told Took the searchers to a number of neighbor's homes and for two days. They could not find the boy so the dogs are like keep going to people's houses on tuesday morning a mile from the tip and residents. Bobby hinton seventy years. Old notice floodlights on at his rental house on his property. The home is used predominantly for storage. And he knew that the front floodlight should not be on. Unless someone had activated the motion sensor he walked to the home and found the rear door unlocked and partially opened he looked inside and saw a small lump on the floor in front of the refrigerator. He walked toward it and found. David tip unconscious and on the floor in front of the refrigerator. He picked the boy up brought him back to his main home where he met with his wife martha she woke the boy and fed him cookies and milk as bobby called. The police and the boy was quickly taken back to his residence. Robert stated the david had suffered scratches bug bites and was moderately dehydrated. August third two thousand and four article in the elizabeth and star stated the following. The house. david was found. Had been searched on sunday the same. This same item appeared the following day in the albany herald confirming the hinton home had been searched according to an article dated august fourth in the atlanta constitution. The boy when found was barefoot and wearing a finding nemo t shirt. So the case could summary. David says what would have caused david to leave the comfort of his home in water into the woods. Where was he when the hitting home was searched and nothing was found inside. Did he wander in the woods. Woods shoeless for three days and if so why aren't there any notations about cuts and bruises to his feet just the notation about scratches on his body and face. And why didn't the canines david. If they were onto his sent this area in which he disappeared as less than one quarter of a mile from the clayton county reservoir and four other small lakes in that immediate area. Readers should take note that many of the disappearances occur in close proximity to wilderness areas lakes rivers streams forest preserves parks so. I guess it's possible that he wandered into that building after it had been searched. Yeah but was interesting. Is the timing here. You know most of those floodlight things they they turn off after. What thirty seconds. I know forty five sleep right. So this guy looks out there and sees the floodlights on which means that. He's just been dapa he just got there you know like they don't they're not going to stay on for hours right most of these like they turn off and a matter of minutes so it it implies that whatever like he just arrived or something had just dropped him off there and then he goes out and finds the kids like in front of the refrigerator in that building and then the mother wakes you know his wife wakes he's able to take carry the kid all the way back and then the wife wakes. Yeah this is again. Like what kind of unconsciousness are we talking right. Yeah and apparently he wandered for three days. No no shoes like you went outside wearing a tee shirt. And that's it basically he's not wearing. Yeah he's in his t shirt and underwear. Yeah four years old must be like incredibly traumatic terrifying events for the people involved. I just can't imagine yeah. Well i guess we'll stop there. The next case is a big one So we'll start that one next week the big case it's like it's going to be more than two shows. Maybe possibly. yeah yeah. It's cool could good picks good stuff and so again. I want to encourage everybody to get these books. The one where reading from that. I'm pulling these details from his. The visiting four one the eastern united states unexplained disappearances north americans. That have never been solved by david. Politis and do i. I don't know to me. The ones where they're found alive are the most even though. That's the best possible scenario. It's these are some of the strangest cases. Yeah and the other thing is like it when they're found alive. It's like you know it doesn't encourage further. Yeah because it's like the cases over the person's no longer missing. They're not dead. they have murdered. The kid is alive. Everyone's happy and so it's like it's kind of stops in some cases where we're going through. You know you can tell the police or the law enforcement. People are kind of like they're thinking abduction. In other words that somebody came and kidnapped the kid and then freaked out freaked out and dropped it. But which is possible but when they find the kid do they keep. Wouldn't you wanna keep trying to figure out what happened. It's just. I guess there's just nothing to go on you. Know what. what do you do get pumped their stomachs. I wanna know what they're eating for six days. Yeah and the dog sitting. Yep and i'd like to know in some cases like what the condition of the water. The wild water is in some of these. Can you drink the water without getting really sick. Well i mean. I did as a kid. Yeah we drank. So that's what i'm saying but not everywhere. You can't do that everywhere. So in some cases you can like yes. It's possible to drink the water without getting super sick but in other cases it's not. Yeah so all right interesting. Yeah okay well you guys can get hold of us. Brothers the serpent at dot com out the website brothers of the serpent dot com. That's got all the podcasts related stuff there the encyclopedia the glossary the snakeskins. Which are merchandise stores. Have you want. t shirts or other swag hats. You can check that out on. The website joined the pyramid scheme Santoro patriot patriotic content. We do. We are making patriarch content now so there are quite a few things up there now. we don't make them every week we've been making them like what twice a month like that to a month every other show. It'll be on enough but yes. There is patriot content now. So if you want to get that you can sign up for the patriotic or if you want to give us a one time donation there is a paypal button there And thanks so much all of you. Who have done that. We really appreciate it. They really helps us out. So thank you. So much and Gave us reviews wherever you can join the facebook group. You want to do that Joined the discord. There's a link to joining the discord on the website as well. That's run by jeff who also runs the library of the serpent. There are links to that on. The website is also and thanks to history shift. Who makes oliver youtube videos A lot of work into that. Thanks buddy it really appreciate that and Pod doodles check him out need does doodles that you can watch him drawing while listening to our show. He's got. He's got a youtube channel. So check that out and follow him on. Twitter at pod doodles. Yeah thanks to Psoriasis where to the road. Go then next and the dudes over america and all of you listeners. Out there we you guys always have always will do get back to work.

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