6 Episode results for "Twenty Eight Thousand Year"
How destroying sacred caves took down a top mining boss in Australia
"I'm just in Ho with marketplace the economy is changing so fast it's hard to keep up. So our latest podcast is here to help it's called the marketplace minute give us just sixty seconds and we'll bring you the latest on what's happening in the economy three times a day market updates business news in how the numbers affect your personal economy. We'll tell you what you need to know why it matters. Just ask your smart speaker to play the marketplace minute or find it wherever you get your podcasts. The boss of mining giant Rio Tinto will step down after overseeing the destruction of sacred. Sites Australia live from London, this is the marketplace morning report from the BBC World. Service I'm Victoria Craig Good Morning to ancient caves in Western Australia were one of the country's most significant archaeological research sites. Artifacts found there date back tens of thousands of years and include things like twenty, eight, thousand year old animal bone tool and four thousand year old belt. The caves were not only high cultural value but also high. Dollar value, they sat on ninety, six, million dollars of high grade iron ore a material used to make cars, ships, and building materials. So in May Rio Tinto the world's biggest iron ore mining company destroyed the rock shelters but it caused widespread condemnation from the company's shareholders and the public today chief executive John Sebastian and a handful of other senior executives said they'll leave the company. The BBC Shaima Explains why Rio Tinto has. been slow to hold its leaders to account. We heard last month that the CEO and two senior executives were stripped of their bonus pays of twenty twenty multi-million dollar bonus pays. But at that time, the company was insistence that they weren't going to step down. But Mind you particularly department was responsible for community outreach and community relations. Many of the critics said, what that showed is actually a lack of being in touch. With reality and after weeks and weeks of continuous pressure, not just from the aboriginal community, not just from government leaders. But actually a very intense effort from shareholders only then has Rio Tinto responded and now we've seen the departure of Sebastian Jack and the two other executives but even then he likely won't go until March. Is that right? That's right either he stays until the end of March or he stays until he's replaced. I guess what all of this shows is just how powerful and influential the mining industry is I mean the laws at the moment give mining companies the right to appeal any decisions that has to do with these ancient lands, which means that they're now multiple other sites that could be at risk of being destroyed. So it's the special between the power of the mining industry, the wealth of natural resources that Australia has but the fact that some of this wealth is buried underneath lands that date back thousands and thousands of years, and that in itself is a historical wealth for the country, the BBC Shaimaa Khalil in Sydney there. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for having me shares. Of Rio, Tinto closed down half a percent on today's news elsewhere in financial markets European stocks are struggling for direction investors are keeping close tabs on souring relations between the UK and the EU trade talks will continue next week on post brexit arrangement this week, the European Commission told Britain, it could face legal action over a proposal to change the country's withdrawal agreement which violates international law. Corona Virus Vaccine Development faced a setback this week when. An Oxford. Halted final stage trials after a British. Participant fell ill something they say is common in large scale tests but the hurdles don't stop. Once we have vaccine actually getting it to everyone on the planet will be a huge logistical challenge just providing one dose to the world's seven point eight, billion people will fill eight, thousand, seven, forty, seven cargo planes that's according to the international air. Transportation Association Glenn Hughes is the Association's head of cargo. He told me the complexities of planning airlift of the scale did actually starts with questions prior to the. Vaccine, which is what will the vaccine looked like? Will it be a single-dose double dose? A triple vaccine will need to be transported in a cool environment or will need to be distributed in a frozen environment. The second question is, is there a global capacity to manufacture that? So at the very least, there will need to be a significant controlled harmonized unaligned distribution of the vaccine over relatively short period of time because of course, once vaccine is actually approved and certified for use it's critical that it gets out there as quickly as possible. Travel restrictions in the plunge in passenger traffic has forced airlines to reduce the number of flights and routes that they offer. How does that impact the effort to deliver vaccines? Hugely, global connectivity cannot be provided by pure freighter aircraft on its own. We made a calculation that the total volume of vaccines will account for the equivalent of eight thousand, seven, four, seven freighters, worth of commodity, of course, there on a thousand, seven, four, seven trade on the planet. So it's going to require significant inter connectivity with passenger networks with conger networks sometimes with. Passenger planes as it's happening. Now, flying cargo only even on the seats, even taking the seats out to the industry will do what it can do to support, but it does need governments to harmonize and align on trying to safely open passenger transportation because that cargo capacity in the passenger planes will be crucial. Some regions will be easier than others to get vaccines to, and Africa will be one of the hardest places. What makes it so complicated the Shia signs of the continent, the lack of freighter capacity that goes into the region now. The potential high temperatures, which again makes moving something as sensitive as a vaccine which needs to be in a temperature controlled environment. You have to make sure that this uninterrupted power supply you have to also make sure that eventually got volunteers to help disperse the vaccine not of the aid agencies since the beginning of the covert outbreak have had to suspend some of that planned vaccination programs because of the lack of ability to get the product but also the lack of ability to get volunteers there we would hope by raising this issue now to work. With the African Union, Individual States and all those that connects really help influence the preparation phase, Glenn Hughes International Air Transport Association head of cargo. Thanks for breaking this down for us. Oh, it's been my pleasure. Thank you very much head over to marketplace dot org later today for more of that conversation, it's all part of coverage we've dubbed fast-track the grand challenge of vaccinating the world against Covid nineteen will have plenty more expert views in the days and weeks to come in London. I'm Victoria credit with the marketplace morning report from the BBC World Service.
Bugle 4154 - Terra Firma Warriors
"Bugle audio newspaper for Visual World Hollow Bugler and welcome to whatever you want to call this podcast just my cup nine for it. We'll give you some guidance. This podcast is called the bugle. But if doesn't suit you call it. Whatever you want on these oltmans magic toenail show may be shocked slammed five thousand full Fox News with Nick Machiavelli or even. Why don't turtles have tits? It's in Saudi up to you. I am who I think I am. I am where I am dealing. It loses joining me this week. Or a bucket avails freshman experiment which has shown that yes they would be more effective later than at least to current heads of government of g seven nations get caucus little shit that has no achievement whatsoever. And I'm also joined by a a palpable sense of global buffalo wings. Everything and be to Bugle Co hosts from Australia Alice Fraser and from India. Out of our Powell. Hello both of you slush slash enemy deals in this scenario at the in that case I am. I'm the global confusion backing up. I see very much is As as a as a voice of global buckle that is your what you being put on the planet. Today to express the baffles on behalf of humanity. I didn't guys read about this. But as of yesterday we were Mumbai was supposed to have been an he was supposed to be hit by a locust attack. So we've had cyclones. We've had of course this ongoing thing whatever you WANNA call it school with thing which is so posse now and we were now going to get hit by this giant locust attack. That was supposed to eat all the crops in India. Now I haven't read much of the Bible but I think it goes famine pestilence something something for Osman of the apocalypse now if the Gideon Bible companies trying to popularize the Bible in India. This is really weird way to do. So it's worked surprisingly well over the years to be honest when you say that one locust attack in wait till the reign of blood and people will be buying that off the shelves off House. Australia feds this week. Australia's faring relatively well Andy in that Our lockdown is easing up and Children back on the streets which I'm finding disappointing and just getting in your way. It's talking to each other being teens. Gross auto that is not is really very very disappointing. Really spend two days a week at the moment. Babysitting my niece Who's sixteen months old and I think I'd love to have a baby and then I see teenagers and think. Oh I don't want one of them. That's why people get dogs. They're inherently menacing. We are recording on the twenty ninth of my in the H. One thousand nine hundred eighty eight as world pipe clip day So this addition of the Bugle is held together by paper clip knots The usual audio staples so we up Paula. Just some of the joins notice smooth as expensive. It is bit hard lined up his knees normal on this day. People are just gonNA think. That's my shit editing. Now Pinnacle that was the pinnacle of an art form and I think we should all take a minute to celebrate that any sort of jarring sound is not if crisis people compare. It looks like you're trying to make a joke on this day in Nineteen fifty-three tenzing norgay Edmund. Hillary became the First People Theresa Summit of Mt Everest or did they new research suggests that the whole thing was faked in a studio on the moon. It's the way the flag is sponsoring and the unrealistic happens. Make gravity look normal also on this day in history. The opening of one of the most important art exhibitions in history in the thirty four thousand. Eight hundred sixty six be seat a new exhibition by the influential autism entitled what is what I am not in the avalon. God Gallery Sudan. Yeah in what is now France who works included classic painting such as ox Bison another bison probably a horse and small his autists random the next thirty thousand years as always a section of the bugle. Good good you should as always a section of the bugle has going straight and the Ben this week. We'll look at all. The new shows that have been brought about by lockdown savy some Some exciting new new shows of emerged from the current circumstances including the new norm Powell. A fascinating historical speculative flaw in the wool commentary examining how to significant twentieth century. Figures would have coped if they'd been flatmates during the current lockdown Gulf War General Norman. Schwarzkopf AND PROHIBITION ERA Super Gangster Al Capone make four hilarious forced buddies as rigid military discipline of storming Norman rubs up against the rule bending brutality and subterfuge of all snarky scarface. The Norman Al All fifty three episodes currently available on any streaming device masking michaelangelo interesting documentary about the controversial updating of the Sistine Chapel frescoes by the legendary Nice owns ought star to make them more suitable for covid audience Obviously ahead of a lot of face Moscow and the PERSPEX screen between Adams Finger and Goldfinger. Not is a lovely touch. Also don't cover the penises. It'll painters do not Do not do not spread cove. It I mean I mean to be honest science. We've had so many different bits of silence. I'm going to throw that one out there. Let's say of got legs? That's how science works isn't it? It's a process of discovering something. It's a protest. It's approaches of suggesting something that might be the case and then let other people work out royal wrong Also You lockdown Shows a new series Rewriting the classics of Ancient Literature as if the authors had been living under corona virus restrictions. The three in the series viral. Virgil homeschooling Homa and self isolating soon. Su homers Hamas Elliott very different Under lockdown basically MENA lesson. Helen share a very awkward tenure lockdown. After he caught his famously hot wife having Scotch sex with young. Trojan hunk Virgil Bangsa a Deluge of Wistful Tedium about cupboards and soon sues out of bore deals with the parenting skills needed to control children in the third king month in lockdown that section in the top story this week. Nola virus not not avars. That is not top story this week. The world's two biggest countries are on the brink of war. Lost a genuine. You story that is not about rotavirus. The world has been waiting patiently for any real news the as virus and now it has a India and showing a in a military stuff. Show won't be nice if this non virus story was not a story about two most populous nations in the world to John Nuclear POWs Brinkman shipping the hell out of each other. The words born attention escalate. Not Words you WanNa hear at least not. Since the early days of our borders time as Australian cricket captain as he presided over fractious pleasingly unsuccessful team on sure. I mean we have to talk. Its Up obey to making a top story fighting between India and China so far seems to involve a couple of fistfights mid level taunting old military tactic that of course but still. It's a non virus top story this week. I don't want to as at his virus. Your the Beagles Indochinese. Military grandstanding correspondent. And you are on the spot forest just two or three thousand short kilometers away from The scuffle frontline. Tell us what you can say. Well you know I mean I'm virtually almost at the don't clam boulder the crossing of India and China the foothills of the Himalayas. And you know there are many positives here. Many positives news stories are reporting China Chinese armies made an incursion into Indian territory. India has responded by doing nothing. Because you know it's China any territory. They want claim it for themselves. And so we we've sent we've stood up to the standoff what we've really just called up the Chinese counterpart and said would you mind stepping back a little. And they said we don't understand Hindi and they haven't in the middle of all this. Donald trump president of the United States called Prime Minister Modi and said he could help deescalate the tensions of China entering the DOC region of India And Prime Minister Modi rejected the offer saying that any offer. From president trump to de-escalate tensions is actually an offer to escalate tensions. Yes a bit of a concern and I do know how you guys feel but The only positive coming out of India and China going to full on nuclear war. Is that only? Three billion people are at risk of losing their lives opposed to the coronavirus which is all eight billion people. All I can hope for is that as the armies moved into position that that they're all taking proper socially distanced precautions. Because you don't want to risk anyone's health when going into war was a scuffled described as a scuffle in the Filming live Indian news reporting which broke out an altitude of fourteen thousand feet. And of course the tension moves more quickly through the thin air at that high which is why the crisis escalated So rapidly fortunately It was just a fistfight or has become titus or call it a little bit over excitement. I'm and I guess it's You know it's just one of the rites of passage that new superpowers have to go through four. They they fully joined the gang. You've got China and India looking to move into the void caused by the collapse of the Union a few decades ago and America locking yourself in its Kennel and barking at itself until it leaves itself alone. So it's It's exciting time. I'm well what what's what's in Alabama. They seem to small old area to be having a territorial disputes. I mean could those crucial extra. Himalayan mountains make all the difference to the people of Kerala or Heilongjiang. Well you know the what what's basically happening in. What's being defined the skirmish you know? I mean one man skirmishes another man's invasion basically so when the Chinese say there's a border skirmish what that means is that the there's literally a right of passage so there's a passage they call the Cottam pass through which Chinese troops have entered India and are in India so I suppose a border skirmish can easily be replaced by vast numbers of Chinese trucks who've entered India. Saying this is now hours off. So it's it's really how you define borders mish and invasion really now. The interesting thing is the Indians of claimed it is their territory and it shows up on Indian flags and maps and so on but as you know an Uber Dallas no India. Well Indian borders. You don't really the Chinese side and on the Pakistan side and the reason we have all these two neighbors we don't really know what the country ends no on the Chinese. It could be well into Tibet. We don't I'm sure we left full instructions when we left in the nineteen forty seven. We exactly now. This is where. I'm really missing Cyril Radcliffe. Cereal is the guy who threw the India Pakistan border. Yes I mean those those let me just let me stop you there up those. Who weren't you do not hear very often. This is where I'm really missing Cyril Radcliffe. I mean for various reasons. You just don't hear those words what you want in a situation like this is a man with a moustache and a ruler. Who's just GONNA draw noon sand wherever he feels like it and just be like? That's that's what you do not want to. Donald Trump offering to mediate. Because what more is what's more suitable. When too aggressive blogs a winding up for a punch up outside a pub than for the man who lives on the corner and spends his day screaming pigeons to pitch in as the referee absolutely right one of the big benefits of having civil ratliff is that he had a ruler like Alice said and he had a map and he showed up. In India two days before and he had terrible dysentery so he just drew aligned. Where feels like but the important thing and the allies is the line held? We're fighting over it but we know where the line is. He drew the line with divided. The country no one was expecting. Everyone would be part of India Lahore Pakistan it was chaos but there was a line and this is why I love the British and the align is very important. They didn't do anything on the Chinese side for whatever reason because China separate country. There's no need to draw light so it's basically the actual process which is a northeastern Indian state. China has always claimed residents of predict. Don't need a visa to go to China because the Chinese and this is the only time in India. India insists that citizens get a visa to go to China whereas Chinese opened the door. And the like you don't need to be your Chinese. This is very much part of it again because civil ratliff did not draw a line. What India needs every time? It's in trouble is a British man with a ruler and some dysentery who days and been told to draw a line was drawn. We have a war. Millions would die but we know we were fighting four cliff life man who gives a shit the man you can't stop giving a shit. I will point out the in the current circumstances of the last few months asking for I British person with an illness to take charge of something. That is a risky strategy. Where we all learning that to all coast on an almost daily basis one defense analyst quote on the Al Jazeera website said and this really gives gives day of how serious this is. Thousands of Chinese troops are on Indian soil and they are not repeat not made of terra. Cotta so the Chinese really making business stars how you can sell and you also said we do not know what Chinese objectives are. This is further evidence of China's new superpower status having no discernible objective. You Dick around de-stabilizing stuff first and then you formulate your objectives retrospectively based on what then happens exactly and the exactly. This is how we understand this Chinese strategy in India because for years when India was a socialist country. This is Indian. Businessmen did business. Which is they had a strategy which began with if you live in a corrupt country. Start by bribing everyone. They'll figure out what product you want to make I bride every lawmaker. Then figure out what you want to be. It's you could always make petrochemicals cars doesn't matter. I bright the whole element and it served us. Well you know the economy liberalizing in the nineteen fifty years. It's fantastic. We had monopolies and corrupt politics. But at least at least you knew that you had entered the territory. This is what China's doing their first invading then figuring out if they want to invade at all after they've invaded. There's also this interesting thing going on. The I wanted to what you think. The Indian government are in a conundrum because on one side they have to. They have to counter China but on the other side all the equipment Indian army has is Chinese so all the cellphone all the quarry networks. India's entire technology infrastructure is built on the backbone of Chinese chips and service so so the government is the deliver because even when the pride misses having an encrypted phone conversation with Home Minister the basic network is Chinese lead. The work of the invasion much before the Latin regions unbelievable ships of the British government news. Now and Britain has been rocked by another political scandal This week Dominic Cummings one of the key cyclists in the Machiavelli dream of British politics. The government well key advisor has refused to to resign and has not been sacked after Taking a two hundred and sixty mile journey during lockdown whilst ill with covert symptoms with his wife and child in the car and taking a further car journey to test whether or not his eyesight was potentially lethally dangerous for use as a car driver with his child in the back of the car to a hotspot on. I believe his wife's birthday. I'm on the details mixed up you know dominate Cummings He's Boris Johnson's key adviser. He advises Boris Johnson in very much the same way that Lewis. Hamilton advises his car out to get round to track whole how Ronald McDonald advises cows. How they might like to see whether they'd prefer to be disc shapes rather than cow Shaked. he was quite early on in the lockdown process. And now I mean to be honest. I don't think many people in Britain can say they've abided by all the rules all the time but this was early on and I guess he you know. He claims that he just did anyone else. Suspecting they have a highly contagious potentially fatal vars would do. I returned to work at the heart of government. Bay travel the length of the country to make sure the virus wasn't just things be enjoyed by the London elite and then because he was worried about. Is it not being? Sipho driving strapping his young child into a call driving. M16 just to be on the side. John we're hearing rumors no confirmation yet. But just johnny extra site. He also cut the brake cables on his CAU- and At someone strew shots broken gloss over the road as well just just to be safe on you know. I'm not going to judge him on whenever I go out tonight. Food in the fridge slightly moldy piece of meat or something. I might my kids eat it first for their own good. I'm also with his wife then heartfelt Accounta- virus life that didn't mention any of these things until the story was broken by the golden and the Mirror About a week ago. I'm what's the here in? Britain has been a reaction when even the arch. Tory press Tory member of parliament of been highly critical of the government. What's what's the global response to this This lunatic story. Well I mean as as a as an Australian I feel like it provides an insight into the cultural Maybe let's say features of the British landscape. It feels from here and I'm not sure if you could say this from where you are but from here. It's almost like the people tasked with serving. The people of Britain think that they are above the laws. They make because they've been inculcated into a culture where they control the narrative around what is is not a fact what is and is not a law and what is is not a I feel. I feel like you can't really blame them anymore. That you can blame a kid that denies eating all the chocolate biscuits with a big chocolate around his mouth if he then gets away with it for rating the biscuit tin again that the next available opportunity accepted this instance. Stealing the biscuit is rubbing the faces of the entire population of country. Into in the fact that you think that you're allowed to do the thing that you've been telling them for literally months. They are on no account to do. It's like saying don't go. It's very bad for public health when you wiping goes off your Dick. Even people who agreed with you on the original inadvisability of you're going to start asking questions In this instance go to the metaphor for infection control nicely. There's the kind of words that we we've not been hearing from from the government and it's nice to hear expressed in such such forthright forthright language it is. I am I mean India. Of course no no stranger to lunatic political scandals. How has this been a big story in India? Well they have covered it. But you know this sort negligence is is what we actually call normal life in India. This is this sort of ethical breakdown is is seen as ethical. Actually but I did a bit of research and need to figure out if this was the most callous thing done by a British government servant ever in history during pandemic and it appears it may not have been I did research and then that nineteen nineteen pandemic with swept through India when India was in the hands of. And I'm going to mispronounce this when the hands of one Lord Frederick Festival first viscount of tempered and he was doing this Lord. Comfort India was gripped with the Spanish flu. Millions are sick. Mumbai tables and desperate need of beds lot camps with todd. This would be a good time to go. Looking for a particular Royal Bengal Tiger Stephan bothered him because he shocked through there and so while cases where he was missing he got off with a net and an elephant to look for a tiger to be fair. He was only looking for the tiger to see if he's still do it. It's a great point Dallas. I don't know if he wins. Dominic Cummings wins but in terms of presence Indian politicians. All of them have been violating the lockdown. But that's not uncommon because You know India and any sort of rules is only personal. It doesn't apply to the population of this story in which it is a storm in a Westminster teacup You know fundamentally It it doesn't affect people's lives. Butler government is insisting on keeping the teacup with a storm going on and forcing people to drink tea out of the teacup. They all bringing them on themselves. Boris Johnson has exacerbated the situation by well being being himself. I mean the stories will say it's A. It's a distraction in many ways. It's distracted from more important issues. Such as Johnson and his government being barely functional polyps and now the government's game With the the contact tracing an effort to belatedly ran the cap back into the bag the cat and is now fully grown and the bag is a condom. Full OF LOCUSTS. Two locus references. And but I and this week Thoresen face. Parliamentary liaison committee us is Important Parliamentary Committee which traditionally across examines the Prime Minister three times a year. On what what the government is doing? This is the first time Johnson's faced and he's been prime minister for nearly a year. Now Count Bill still believe those words on a complete lie and he responded to the questions very much like a self obsessed could include by anything relevant would do for whatever reason you also stop to scientific advisers monitoring questions from journalists which is not a great look fans of openness and accountability instructed to see the change in Boris Johnson. Don is the confident bluster and truth twister who wings Britain into making him king replaced by a Justin Bluster and truth twister. Who aren't even trick. His own face looking lock. It believes Boris Johnson has been telling people to move on Which is not being told to get back on the hosted by someone. Who's just knock you off your horse and is now sitting on your horse. Poking you with a javelin every time he try to stand up. So Boris Johnson has finally sat down with the Commons committee. FOR THE FIRST TIME. Apparently he's been avoiding it a lot. Ordinarily Prime Minister would engage with this particular committee during the election campaign hidden a fridge to journalist so there is a well. He passed his used by date in that frigid. And now he's come out And just proven that he absolutely canNot Answer. A question cannot will not definitely cannot one. He just came out with so many bizarre and startling statements. I think my favorite one was when Johnson said he was forbidden from announcing anymore targets and deadlines which raises the question forbidding him. And isn't he the Prime Minister and also why does he constantly pretend that he still private school boy? He's constantly using the language of private school. When when Dominic Cummings Dominic coming scandal came up. He said I didn't mark him down for that his family to make most people leave school and then stay lift. I can't even remember most of what happened in high school. Little Own. Allow the structures imposed on me by the system to continue to fully control my conceptualization of the outside world one So a story from the dominant coming story as that's twitter's anti pornography filters blocked his name So stories about once weren't being shared maybe as widely as they could have been I mean this is. This could prove to be a very valuable tactic. I think in politics if you can have a dodgy behind the scenes unaccountable advisor Whose name will not crop up due to such filters expect us to see behind the scenes micro Machiavelli's in the cummings mold going by name. Such as painted splodge. Gaba go nuts go nuts II and Dick. Nigel's just keep them out of the search engines very much. Think alike. Andy I said. Dominic Cummings name is being filtered out by twitter's anti-porn Algorithms Dome Cummings. Obviously his full name. Dominic Cummings which is short for his other name dominatrix shortcomings. All the government ministers realizing the license. This gives them into misbehave. While avoiding significant part of the public censure they might be incurring planning on changing the names to gaping hole tentacle tie and Cream Pie. Stepbrother spinoff from the grateful. Dead in the late sixties. This this is the time when I say English is my second language. I don't know what you guys engineers your initial of fifteen languages other twitter news. Donald Trump is trying to end twitter. he's got very angry this week. Tr- twitter has started Highlighting tweets which might be entirely for example truthful own not encouraging violence As only trump canny stood off a free speech by threatening to shutdown outlets of free speech and he said Republicans feel that social media platforms. Totally silence conservative voices which may explain the area silence over the past. Four years from trump's on social media feeds fairly extraordinary story. They've had to Put Fact Checker warnings on on a tweet that he did about a postal vote. Fraud He's also. We talked about in previous shows being essentially accusing a TV news host of murder Despite the pleas of the widower of the woman who died almost twenty years ago Desperately asking to stop and they're being absolutely no evidence whatsoever suggesting that there's anything in His his his claims the problem for trump From a free speech anglers that for example certain outlets do not want to let him half as freedom to freely accuse people of murders that they are not even slightly suspected of having committed now. I'm pretty sure that's what George Washington the Split Squad were off the when I ditched the UK That tax representation nonsense was a smokescreen. They really wanted was the freedom to accused Georgia. Third of killing Queen Victoria. Andy You said this story through yesterday when he was merely accusing people of of murder since then he's threatened to suspend the rule of law to shoot rioting protesters and it's so depressing. I feel like it trying to make meaningful satirical jokes about trump is like chasing a hyperactive dog with constant explosive corrosive. Diarrhea trying to catch it in a bag and turn it into art after awhile. You can't help feeling a little unclean and like maybe someone needs to stop feeding that dog. Whatever they're feeding fact checking is no more censorship than TD. Testing is putting your Dick in a cage. Fact checking is normal. An infringement of your right to free speech than vaccine testing is infringement of your right to inject yourself with bleach thanks. Shanking is no more a corruption of the public's right to access information than speed cameras are corruption of your right to do cod jousting on the public highway standing through the skylight of your Toyota praised Alpha. J. With a spear you'd you're entitled to say whatever you want as long as it's not inciting violence you don't then have a right to avoid someone else. Cool you allying shithead with a gaping anus blogs from The the the facebook Founder sent a facebook will not be quotes of truth. We will not put such a fact warnings or falsehood warnings on its. It's post I and and in the case of this supposed murder. That trump accuses Joe Scarborough of having committed there is no need for facebook to be of truth because the police and medical examiners will officers of truth almost twenty years ago so when Zucca bugs as we will be all puts his a truth what he really means is we will be enablers of laws. It's a it's a small difference but believe it important. One I mean. It's it's it's sort of astonishing to me that he says that facebook is keeping a refusing to interfere in such things. When they have an algorithm ick process that presents you with informational removes information from your side. I feel like someone needs to sign facebook and twitter and all these social media platforms up to a media code of conduct as the Algorithm meekly curated networks that they are there media networks and not the public square however much they would like to object that they are and point to the fact that they happen to have a gallows in the corner. But I have a question and just to play devil's advocate. I can sort of see. Trump's point of view about social media because think about what kind of social media would be want if fact checking and truth started featuring and if news was corrected. I feel dirty feeble long past that world. What is this two thousand and five intermission to be filled with? Facts would be going back to another world that we along boxed a world we we cannot risk going back to a worldwide truth is definable. Cuban conversation would end as we know it. Destruction of the cultural heritage of Aboriginal People in Australia News Now Alice as a white Australian much In your Ballpark Br bring us up tonight. Yes it's heart breaking news. A number of Aboriginal Heritage Sites of major significance have been destroyed in Western Australia in the Pilbara region. Rio Rio Tinto obtained legal permission to blast these sites before they were fully uncovered the things they contained including evidence of continuous human occupation through the last ice age. Twenty eight thousand year old to made from bone each one of the oldest examples of these technologies known in Australia. A piece of four thousand year old plotted hair belt whose DNA has been linked to the today's occupants The traditional owners of that land and I for one applaud this behavior on the part of our mining companies. Is this sort of a form of spring cleaning. I like to think of it as you know. Historians and people with a love of culture in the wonder of human existence or essentially the horrors of the natural world always trying to hold onto the glorious miracles of human survival in the astonishing complexity of our shared past i. It's not like a Stralia has spent the last two hundred years. Diminishing and denying the multifaceted and sophisticated science and civilization of its indigenous population and in favor of facile linear narrative of Anglo centric superiority. The conflicts colonial dominance with evolutionary fitness. At a right to cultural ascendancy include allowing the presence of previous occupants as MIA ciphers and Crayon drawn place holders for God given right to European annexation or anything like that. I am as big a fan of European culture legal and rights driven narratives of the next privileged bookworm with Cambridge Education. I just don't think I need to pretend that nothing else has ever had value to enjoy Shakespeare. Well I mean I I I mean maybe I'm seeing this from From from a whites European perspective but it might be land of cultural and spiritual importance to the aboriginal people of Australia. What about cultural and spiritual importance to to white people like me off the tradition of exploiting any no mineral resources regardless of the consequences are nonfinancial. Cost is that not a heritage that we have to protect as well. You mentioned Rio. Tinto was responsible for this lovely action. I would like to know what people really think of this fantastic Indian Country Adani. Who after being with wouldn't destroying large parts of the state of? Gujarat have said there is on large parts of minds in Australia and I read about a bunch of protests against them and I feel like this is the sort of thing that brings the world together. You know. Large global corporations who've destroyed things at one of the world really the best practices to another part of the world and thereby bridge that gap between India and Australia. are are they being talked about the? Yeah it's it's reassuring we do. Talk about Danny we talk about Rio. Tinto it's reassuring to know that there are organizations in this world that would literally blow the top off the path and on if someone had dropped the coin underneath it just or But I guess you know it's It's a it's a fair contest. Isn't it The the the mining industry against you know archaeological cultural heritage is kind of paper says a stall game of twenty eight thousand year old bone toll industrial explosives unfettered capitalism. You know it's GonNa Three Games. It's the thing is industrial explosives and unfettered. Capitalism tend to gang up on twenty eight thousand year old bone tools. That's the thing is the difficult thing about Something being you know priceless is that Priceless isn't worth as much as some money off. I think I think that's a good place to end this episode. Chelsea the latest week in the lunacy of great species Thank you for listening We'll be back next week with a regular buell on the Saturday the thirteenth of June. We're going to have the inaugural Bugle livestream quiz And it will be the greatest quiz in the history of all humanity As I'm sure you would unhesitatingly greet buglers. On the twenty seventh of June we will have another bugle. Livestream live show allies other than the wonderful lost posts which is up to episode hundred and fifty something. Yeah Anything else to a little. I still have my regular TV with L. Show. That isn't funny. All and also savage is available on Amazon prime. But do listen to the last post. It's a lot of fun and very stupid and excitingly not said in the real World Albany. Any shows you'd like to well two things. I would like to plug Alice's last post. You know she she did send me to another planet as as a legal representative of their focus and secondly I. We do a podcast. India called all last week which is on spotify which I normally don't love because it's just nonsense but this week is a cricket episode. A cricket conundrum episode and featuring on it is leading Indian cricket commentator and is also conundrums. That comes up day so Edie Edie. Fads of cricket conundrums or whatever is left of cricket at end of this pandemic and can listen. Well thank you for listening once again. If the planet is a whole as listening please grow up at some point this year until next week bugler goodbye and we will play you outs. In the time honored tradition with some lies routes premium level voluntary subscribers to join them. Go to the Beagle. Podcast DOT COM and click the domain Rachel. Holiday thinks the world could do with some more positive phobias. Fair is a natural evolutionary impulse. Oggi's Rachel for which we should be eternally grateful. It is what a stopped us going. The way of the now seriously endangered overconfident jungle pigeon and the thoroughly extinct cocky cliffs but continues Rachel Phobias. Always tends we negative. I personally am a phobia phobic. I'm terrified of not being terrified of enough things. Rachel's fellow Rachel Rachel more is much taken with the first Rachel's idea the second Rachel ventures a couple of suggestions. How about trying to get people to take up at Clay Panther Phobia the fear of not appreciating flowers enough or maybe even a motto Parikka Phobia the fear of not telling people you love them. These could have great social impacts. We just need a celebrity to say. They've got these phobias. And within a few years they will be rampant. It's all for the good of humanity. David Fouls believes the global aviation industry will need to modernize in the wake of all the stuff etc and one of the ways in which it should do so is by being more flexible with where it takes people to airports are an outdated idea suggests David with modern parachute drone. Gps BUBBLE MATTRESS technology. It should be possible to drop people off pretty close to where they actually want to go reasonably safely and save the environmental cost of ground transportation by my calculations concludes David Undermines game. Seventy five percent of airports could be turned back into fields. Jono Michelle once spent a year plotting out a comic book detailing the adventures of Veget- all who's superpower was the ability to turn meat into vegetables. Vegetate was trying to move the world away from excessive meeting for the good of the environment whilst also providing alternative crops for the affected farmers because he was a great guy. John then abandoned the idea however I ended thinking that vegetal was a bit of a toll explains Jono and would have been better off persuading people politely and lobbying governmental organizations rather than spoiling people's barbecues. Jonathan Stewart likes to see the look on his neighbors faces when he turns up outside their house with a Lotta friends dressed as archaeologist with metal detectors chisels and all the rest of the Kate and with some heavily annotated ground plans before pairing into their garden pointing at a specific spots and saying. I'm pretty shorts there about ten feet down. But it's worth during the whole plot and saying what we find. It's a great prank says Jonathan though usually only works once so I moved house quite regularly to have new people to try it on. Mark Foley you to try these self-same prank on his neighbors but the greatest of made up coincidences markle's and occasion on which the neighbor threatened to call the police. And shove quote that Hammer Somewhere. You do not want it to be shoved mark. Julia withdrew giggling quietly to himself. Three days later his neighbor popped round told mark that he'd unearthed a three thousand year old bronze terrapin and invited me to join him in the rest of the dig. It was acknowledged mark quite wit and finally continuing the archaeological Lawrence Mitchell wonders. If we've got the Great Pyramids of Egypt all wrong. What if they weren't burial thing? He's a toll speculates Lawrence. It does a bit of a stupid way to entombs. Among with all due respect to the Egyptians what if instead they were in fact some form of early computer or an escape from type installation that everyone in Egypt could use at once or maybe even sports venues luck inverted stadiums with the crowd on the ground and the players from chuck a ball into a bucket on top. Lawrence concludes somewhat sharply. Just don't think we should assume they were pinned up coughing. That's old and if allies bye-bye.
489 Starhunter Redux The Man Who Sold the World
"Fusion patrol is a listener supported podcast find out how you can help support us at Patriotair dot com slash fusion patrol. This is the fusion patrol gassed each week we look at a different science fiction TV episode or movie and analyze it to within an inch of its life. Welcome to the discussion. Hello and welcome to another episode a fusion patrol I'm Eugene. Kenneth. And tonight we're looking at the star Hunter Redux episode the man who sold the World Episode Synopsis On Pluto About He. Hunter Confronts Mr Cave on he accuses him of being Dr Novak a wanted criminal when he insists on a DNA scan to verify his identity. Bell Keivonnis beautiful assistant offers him cocktails then shoots him dead with a gun concealed under the serving stray aboard the Trans Utopian Percy is complaining about the Food and her homework which she hasn't been doing. But all the witty banter is interrupted by Rodolfo. WHO's got a job for them. Every bounty hunter in the system is after Novak who they all know is cave on and that he's living a high profile life as a metal supplier. Dante team or ordered to get there quickly and take the prisoner. There's going to be a convenient plot complication though every twenty eight, thousand years, the older anomaly mucks about with Pluto, and by the most staggering of coincidences the trans. Utopian, we'll only have twelve to eighteen hours to get in and get out before the never yet observed in the recorded history of mankind. Anomaly Hits Pluto Lucretia spends her travel time reviewing an orchard briefing on the history of Callisto, and the evil Dr Novak who performed thousands of unethical and horrific experiments on the population before the collision rebels and the lunar and Martian alliances teamed up and overthrew the government. Of Callisto. They arrive at Pluto and Lucretia is particularly Ho to bring Novak to justice she was part. Of the troops that liberated eccleston concentration camp and has seen the horrors firsthand. Dante tries a clever ruse and pretends to be a metal buyer to gain access to the environment bubble on Pluto cave on. Let's him in but it is the work of a few seconds to check the computer information. Realized that the Trans Utopian isn't an ore carrier and Dante is lying he. Sends his goon rusty to kill them and his hostile AI program billy ray to disable the Trans Utopian on the Trans Utopian Percy dances amongst the broken parts and bric a Brac of the ship. When Billy Ray arrives Caravaggio notices but seemingly does nothing about it for a while and then when he does he fails and billy ray takes over and starts destroying the ship. Percy soaps about it s billy ray to leave. He doesn't. On Pluto Rusty proves to be an incompetent at his job as goon and is soon dispensed with but that in any way incapacitated or restrained by Dante ORLA Krisha. Belt Kill Them, and in a remarkably surprising moment of competence, Dante and Lucretia. Her to this time restraining her but she is soon set free by rusty who I previously mentioned was not restrained confronting cave on they force him to take a DNA test to prove he's Novak. He isn't picture talks like he is. They decided to take him back to the Trans Utopian to run a full DNA testing him although it is unknown to them that Percy is still sulking on the bridge while Billy Ray politics the ship into the older anomaly on the surface belen rusty stage a rescue attempt rusty is killed then Lucretia taken hostage then she escapes and recaptured cave on. Dante threatens to kill him but the Krisha is especially keen to take him alive. In fact, she wants him to show her something and they returned to his lair. Donte strikes up a friendship with bell shortly after cave on inexplicably dumps her and headed off with Lucretia. Friendship is in quite the right word for it. Doubt. They assumes that a woman spurned his on his side. She says, she isn't, but he treats her like she is anyway little human kindness and compassion goes a long way. We can dispense with literary coins. Now, cave on really is Novak and he was conducting his experiments in an effort to unlock the divinity cluster. Dante and bell show up then bell goes to get cocktails. She shoots Novak with the gun at she keeps under the drinks tray and she gets killed by the bounty hunters they escape without a body meanwhile caravaggio who spent most of the episode trapped inside a Nintendo game boy asks Percy to turn on his antivirus program, which she begrudgingly does and Billy Ray is expunged just in time to come back and pick up Dante Lucretia. As they leave everyone has a little time for a Soliloquy the end I'm going to by. Just saying how many more episodes are we going to see where a bizarre space and or atmospheric disturbance causes artificial jeopardy that the plot itself doesn't actually supply. How many is this? Is that three with were on episode five? How is three or four episodes? Thinking Slipped an episode list here. Not the first one no, it wasn't the vanity cluster and then with trust was just. Yet But it's from the cops. And then But the Martian, one that was whether storm. Yes. was with the one with the virus woman that was just a random space events that bump them. Don't. That's that's all aged frank. Okay And because I'm on it, I'll. I'll go. The older anomaly happens every twenty, eight, thousand years I did my math right that means the last time it occurred was in the year two, thousand, five, seven, fifteen BC. Wow, that's a long time ago, which was just about the time that people migrating into Mesoamerica and there's some evidence of the very first permanent human habitation in the Czech Republic but not astronomy and not people figuring out that there was a space thing Let's talk about the older wave here because I did take some notes at to be precise. It intersects the orbit of Pluto, every twenty, eight, thousand, six, hundred, ninety, three years, and the I wrote this down verbatim this evening. As I. I like to watch the episode again with in two hours before the podcast recording. The technical explanation of the older a nominal older wave is and I quote. Bubble universes intersecting in the Tenth Dimension Ken Fragment a black hole leading to unpredictable effects. Predictably at twenty eight, thousand year intervals. Yeah. I do not know. What this means bubble universes intersecting in the Tenth Dimension What Doesn't mean anything. It's just it it just you know if they had left it at that, I would be I would be fine with it I mean it would be it would be like, okay I'm still kind of annoyed that they just had to come up with something to create the artificial jeopardy. But it's that whole did you not for a second? Know. If somebody comes along and says, you know Haley's comet comes back eighty every eighty four years or whatever. It is eighty something years. Sorry. Seventy. I know I'm going to be too old to see it the next time it comes back around. So but it that's come around several times. So people noticed it and go like, Hey, it's back again. Whenever I think I. Think we had the same calm discussion that you and I, but at the same conversation about the ghost monument. On in doctor who were they were talking about the fact that the goes monument appeared every I think it was ten thousand years and you think who would actually know. Good, point. that it would come back every ten thousand years because that is. So, long between intervals that you have to have at least three before you can say, hey, that's an interval. Yes. That's when somebody throws at Twenty, eight thousand years and I right now that you mentioned it and much more specific number, twenty, eight, thousand, six, hundred, ninety, three. You go how? No one's ever actually seen it in the history of mankind than true now. So it is strictly either theoretical thing that nobody because I'm the scientist who discovered it apparently eight his own body parts. So I'm guessing really bright people or crazy. Or something, but that one was. Indeed Like all they had to do. All they had to do was go this thing hits every five years or Ninety three months or some believable interval because the audience doesn't care. Right we all. They're just throwing up there just throwing up little roadblock for them to bump over. And if you throw something up, it has such improbably ridiculous number they're going to be certain members of the audience fingers pointed at me that go hang on a second and it and it draws me out of the. Moment when you're listening to the show and you're like. I. Like you didn't think about that, it's like when John Koenig would talk about. Talking to alienate going this is the universe. The Earth exists it has nine planets. Remember that wrong word man wrong word. I remember that I remember that episode I was one night for some reason I was feeling apparently cruel to myself so i. Plugged one of my computers into the television and I pulled up episodes of season two space space nineteen, ninety nine, and rent them on my television. Season One season what? Happens. He's a one I. Feel cool to myself to apparently. But one of those I remember I've had some mayor. That's I had some. Some Saturday night marathons bad episodes is based nineteen ninety nine. Courtesy of Archive Dot Org and. I remember some of those scenes thinking that he just say that he did many times over the course of the series they just. They mangled universe galaxy in solar system as if they were interchangeable terms and they do it on battle star Galactica original one yes they did. Yes. Yeah. So it Anyway. Then caught me. So you know and they had the we hadn't even domesticated dogs. No. No it's. Such an odd number but. What are you GONNA do? But. Yeah, right. So. I should ask I'll I'll ask you I wanted to eat that went out because that woman just has been. chomping in at that one for ever since I watched the episode but This episode. Think it's city. We're turning a corner or I liked the Novak parts of the episode. Okay. Good good. That's a that's a start because we can talk about the on the Trans Utopian parts of the episode. Separate section yeah. Questions about I have some notes some about the billy rave virus and why in day when the hell Percy didn't run the Program immediately. But Anyway. I have probably many of the same questions. When the when the when this episode aired. Before we're still hundred bucks back when it was just a star hunter. On ducks Yes. Back back in two thousand there was an an opening. Transmission from Adolfo on the front. Just after the opening credits because the order was opening credits Rodolfo's T- transmission then episode proper. And I have the text of Rodolfo's opening transmission and not going to go through all of it because some of it's actually bragging about his upcoming sexual encounter with someone. But there is part of this. That's really. A that may be applicable to To some of those little thought speeches at the end of the episode. Okay which, and here's what here it is. who whoever knows, what lurks in the human heart. Well, I know now now that you ask. Along with all that sunshine puppies and Kittens I'm pretty colored balloons crap. There's also the dark nasty bits of creepy crawly things that scatter away when you flip that rock over. Your heart carries it all. Is the only sure thing I know in anyone who doesn't believe that our hearts are filled with a terminally warring angels and devils is leading with their glass jaw just waiting for a round house, right? And the. GOES ON A in the skip over the next paragraph, the INS with got nasty piece of work coming your way. So quickstep stay sharp. Cost Evil Evil Bastard Novak hasn't a shred of love in his black black heart. Okay. Well is actually a little bit of. A little bit of I'll say value in that's not the word. I. Really Want. I have a question or I have an observation. Okay. The character of Novak and that is right in keeping with it. Novak from what we see in this episode isn't so bad. I'm not defending Joseph Mandalay in face. K.. Is what I am what I am. What I am condemning is the poor conveyance that he is truly evil. The only thing we have is Lucretia watching a little videotape of nothing horrific saying this guy's really bad he I mean he did lots of bad stuff was bad. This is a very in non even an emotional voice. I assume that was her father knows it it was different lessons. I thought that it was but I assume that was an orchard briefing that she was getting there but I could be wrong. I took it as best as a documentary I didn't see anything orchards Pacific about it and it's not an I'm not trying to. I. It's dangerous ground there to say, well, you know if you hear how awful Mangla was, that's nothing compared to seeing how awful Mangla was even a little bit of an example but we don't even get any verbal descriptions of what types of things he did not really just some really nasty. Genetic experiments to these people. What was it was? It was horrific. It was it was really bad. It was only did it all more than twenty thousand people needed twenty thousands of which is one of those numbers that reaches a a level of. Your brain just shuts it out, and so I'm not advocating they necessarily had to be gruesomely graphic but I don't feel effectively conveyed how evil this man was supposed to be, and it kind of fits that that scene with Rudolfo is just another piece of the writers trying to tell not show this guy's really bad. Here's another person saying this guy's really bad. We never really see anything that show how really bad or even get some idea of what he did to those people what what sorts of things he was doing to those people and how horrific it was and I just found that unusual. Choice going into the episode so we don't even flashbacks how `bout flashbacks of Lucretia getting into the concentration camp and finding you know suffering deformed mutated beings they can do that without graphically showing them. Kind of giving us a little bit of. Taste of why she might be. So Gung Ho about bringing us go to justice. And it just it just felt kind of flat and so then they get a guy who doesn't really seem all that bad. I mean, yes, he sends them off to kill him but I mean, let's face it there to kill him. So I can't I can't. Exactly. Blame him for wanting to save his own life. He He seems kind of Nice to his girlfriend Belle. Till the end when he dumps her and I, I haven't figured that out. I thought it was like a ruse. You know maybe like it was a prearranged signal that. Plan. But no, it just seems like he just decided I'm sick of you I'm going to dump you. Know I don't know. But I I did I. I have notes on that because that did bother me and and your retelling of Rodolfo's is opening just fits exactly into the pattern of of what doesn't quite. Doesn't quite gel for me about about Novak. Let's try this How graphic has the a thing about if you've ever seen a General broadcast program about outfits Bergen Belsen. how graphic those get. Well they don't have to get super graphic I think it may see eight it is usually the you know the the worst that you see but they. Like any true horror story, you don't have to show it, but you do have to build something around it and I think that's the I. think that's the issue I. I just think I they could have given me something I. I don't know what it is. Because I don't to this date I have no idea. Was He growing people with three arms? was he making their bodies melt in VATS OF ACID I? I don't know what he was doing to them. Was He Florida aiding their water and making them mind control I I you know I I just don't know we I know, and then the I guess that wasn't the writers concern was is evil bastard whose he conducted. Is More than twenty thousand people. In the. In the name of unlocking the divinity cluster which or whatever he called it then. and. It was in the in are fertile machinations can fill in the details. Yeah. A well obviously, that is what they thought and I just I'm saying I think they may have aired a little bit on the side of spending too much time worrying about Percy, not like in the food. Or Billy Ray messing up the ship then than on building a case for Novak being such a horrific being in its their priorities and and their priorities were kind of in the wrong place. Agree. There's too much time with billy ray in fact, have had no time with time with bill. Maybe one seen I don't know. these shows up in Percy fleshes out I've been. Nice. But speaking of Novak I made this. Here's a note I made on a made made this evening there's a scene in which Novak is speaking to bell. And he asked her when have I not meant what I said. And I wrote plenty of times. I. Again I don't know. We, we even see it in the episode where he's being a lovey-dovey Tiller and then she's out of the remedies and then he's insulting her. Okay Fair enough fair enough. He does that he does do that. We see it after Rusty after the first altercation after the first shootout between rusty and Dante and Luke we have Novak contacting Dante and Luke and being all nice. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The man lies as as I. Think all of them I mean we even saw Donte our hero do it. At Very. Very badly. Know that Dante's a very bad liar. Is He a bad liar? Is Just Michael Pereira really bad actor. Dante. Dante's. Bed Liar Yeah, yeah that that that is that is like we're gonNA pull up to this planet and after I opened the communications channel Hey, maybe I should lie okay I'll I'll just make this up as I go. Hi, my name is. Bob? and. I'm with. TR- Trans you or your or company transfer company and. Wow I think that for a bounty hunter. Low Lying would be helpful skill especially when you had time thinking about it before you get there. Yes. What were you doing in advance of this cleaning the guns? Having more Food I. But there were. But I to to the point about Michael Perez acting. There are a couple of scenes in this in particular once he's hooked up with Belle and some of his line delivery or actually going all the way back to when I Novak says, why don't we go down to my lab and run the DNA tests or something like that? There's just a few lines that are just so dead and so unconvincing that. He's not even. Barely phoning it in and I don't know if this was an unhappy set for him or or what, but it's like okay. He hasn't. He's not. He's not convincing me. He's not Tony Villa Kana. From the greatest American hero and I think that the calling of an actor is that he's supposed to be able to convince me that I'm watching the character, not the actor and kind of what I get on him. But so sometimes when he delivers a line, it's like, am I supposed to believe this is Dante being terrible at delivering a line or? Is is just he is terrible during a line and and what is why is the director not saying hey, let's do that one again this time with feeling. and. That director by the way was Duke Chauffeur. I looked all this looks likes to spin the camera around three hundred and sixty degrees. And the writer was Julian Bikis. Plant. Man F I S. Noticed these names all over first season episodes as I've gone through them I wonder if that's Once again, it's like the it's like the first one who turns it it wasn't that name it makes me think it's a pseudonym. But, but maybe it's just a Canadian Canadian name off never heard before but. I did have a question I'm coming out of this episode for. This most recent time. Whatever it is that I've seen it in net is. I questioned the episode. Does Not Answer. Okay, let's the orchard directly involved in the Colombian civil war that is not a question that crossed my mind but I can see how it's a possibility because it seems that it's something to do with divinity to Costinha, which side do you think that they would be on the the republic the ones that were doing the experiments? Yes see now I would. Think they would be on the other side, the lunar forces because they wanted to stop them from doing whatever it is they were doing with the divinity cluster or overtake them and steal their research which appears to be what thereafter even now threes is say this is a Novak was obviously working on the cluster he said he he admitted to it he said the. and Ami said I once had a very different calling bioengineering as going to create the new man something divine quote unquote. And so he clearly he strikes me as being someone who is probably or church. Well, I'M GONNA I'M GONNA go with it could be either way I could see how orchard could be on either either side of it or what the With L. Providing spoilers I'M GONNA say having guy on my on my rewatch of this series I'm through the eighth episode of Season Two. So I have some perspective here I, don't trust. Orchard. I agree I mean an either way I mean if they're working for the republic, they're doing whatever nefarious thing it is that. They were doing and if they were working against the republic, they were doing it in their own self interest to prevent the republic from having the either way they are operating on a non open level and it's not about liberating and saving the people or it's not about. See I. They were trying to stop ECCLESTON. So I feel like their job is to stop. ECHO sanity. ECCLESTON was orchard. Affiliate. The orch the and the orchard actually has factions and we got that from the first so and so or maybe. So maybe the better way to put it is one faction of the Orchard was working with Republic. But both factions so we have. Crashes. Father and the woman who I can't. Back pocket. Eludes me at the. ECCLESTON was working on the divinity cluster eccleston figured out what it was figured out what it was that the divinity cluster would do, which is turn you into a god hence named divinity cluster. And then he decided that that needed to be taken care of it did not done. I should say did not seem to me that even though the factions existed in orchard, it seemed to be that they were very unified in there that that must not happen. Again I. DON'T WANNA put. Yeah. There are certain statements you just made that episode twenty two contradicts. See and now here is another little piece in and I. Okay I'll take that as to take that as Gospel. It, does not would not surprise me yet based on the writing that we have seen so far that the writers would be inconsistent throughout the course of the show. I do not have faith in them the a stage of the game they do not seem to be as on the money as I would like to see and so. Okay I, believe that we could see an episode that you know at one point they say ABC and in ten episodes later they go CBA and it's always been. Like okay. So we'll see but no I didn't. I didn't actually I didn't even get any hint that they were involved in the. Callisto. A civil war but in now that you mention it. It certainly possible. Possible and of that civil war here in the this is one episode where we have a disconnect between the version of the of the episode and Redux version of the episode. In the original version of the first series, the year, the series, this season spanned. Late Twenty, two, seventy, five to late, twenty, two, seventy, six. We got this information oftentimes on the screen and sometimes in dialogue. The. when we get to Redux the first episode, the Divinity Cluster Opens and twenty two, eighty, five pushing the end of the season too late twenty, two, eighty, six. But throughout most of the season with the exception of one episode, we have the We have to add ten years to every year. We here in dialogue just to make the chronology work. So in dialogue, in this episode, the Civil War on Callisto lasted from twenty to fifty four to twenty two, Fifty, seven make that twenty to sixty, four to twenty, two, sixty, seven, and it works within rejects. I have to say I mean I I I will just like the twenty, eight, thousand year cycle. You can throw a date out there. That would make me go. Like if they had thrown something out there, that was forty years ago and Lucretia was supposed to be fighting on the troops and you go. You didn't think about that. But the realignment of dates between the original series and this one in the thing. I it's imaginary dates or imaginary. They're kind of they're kind of. Not. So far off that they trigger. Say what moment from me so. Yeah, and as. As you know just prior to this podcast, I had to ask you the date again. I have absolutely no fixed idea of when the show is I was talking to my wife about it a little bit before the podcast and I'm like this show is set like and then I remember three hundred, four hundred years. Like. I. Don't remember. It's it's. It's it's an imaginary land. It's it's in nineteen, ninety nine. We've got a moon base. It's you know it's kind of. Kind of thing. So. that. Yeah I guess, it's nice of them to try to make the effort to fix it up but. It didn't. It wasn't unless then you know starts playing real havoc later on that, it's not going to be too big of a problem. No I'm a detail oriented person. So I and I am. Pick up on and as I go as I'm going through this again, I'm picking up on every instance people. Refer back to an episode even if it's half a second to. Is that is one of the in a way. One of the sad things about doing this podcast is I remember doing this from watching you fo and space one, thousand, nine, hundred, nine shows I loved and still you know to to a certain degree loved. But. As I watched through them and was you know taking notes. Like suddenly you're picking up on stuff it's like. Okay well, they Yeah. So I will say that very quickly that you assures that you throw was a better series person either of the season's space nineteen, ninety, nine you in many ways, it was It was in many ways. It was certainly more ambitious. I think it was but and Darken, but it wasn't as beautiful. But no, he was darker. It had the Moon Babes with purple wigs. Fun gay else was an my favorite character but I do but do I'll never forget the episode where striker had to let his US Sunday to save the world. Yeah that was. That was not A. Happy Series for Mister. Stryker. No not. Now. I have a question how come they got paid. Even. Double Nobody Maybe, they took pictures I don't know. I didn't really see him take pictures that if the only thing that they could bring in terms of documentation. Be. A DNA test that they ran which came back negative. So basically, they a man who wasn't Novak and then they left and his base got blown up by the older anomaly where it looked like he got blown out by the older anomaly leaving nothing left by not nominated they get paid they got paid double. I may have an answer for you there. Okay. Who Do you think? Put up the Bounty Orchard Yeah to? Cross my mind don't you think that works her new. Did. They know that he got it really was him and then he really got kill I guess maybe if Lucretia reported back and said Yeah you knew about the divinity cluster, it was Novak he's dead maybe but Dante, a sure didn't seem very concerned about getting that body out for proof because I think that's the way dead or alive works on a bounty you have to prove it somehow and maybe you don't have to drag the body back to dodge city and Plunkett down and Marshall Dylan's office but you do have to get some sort of documentation that he's dead and in this case okay, we gotta go and they just ran off and left the bug. You. Considered this just from episodes we've seen already. The ought good. Yeah. We we we. Wasn't talking about that we have seen and which Lucretia has reported to the orchard they expect regular reports from her. Oh I'm sure that she did report it to the orchard. So if the orchard put the money up, yes, I, get that's why they got paid but looking at it from Dante's point of view, he took no steps to actually secure their proof expenses for this trip and amusingly if. Amusingly if the concern was getting Novak dead nobody had to do anything because the twenty eight, thousand, six, hundred, ninety, one year event was gonNA rush along and kill him anyway. I thought about that too. Unless you know unless they said, we gotta get this guy off now because Pluto is GonNa get destroyed maybe that's why orchard decided to push it now because it seems to me like this guy would be pretty easy to track down. Is considered. Oh. Yes, and speaking of that I did write it. I flip pages of notes here. Here's one Novak says early in the episode, nobody shows up here. But he's out there selling. Yup. I would think you know people are showing up and people are showing up and buying orders that that's a good question. I mean would you not radio ahead and make a deal because which is show up on the door and say head like a hammer out a deal for some titanium and and he says, well, I want Seven million a kilo and they go put I can get it for six, million, a kilo on Neptune well, you should I ask them I. But yeah. And as Dante says, nobody hangs out on Pluto that isn't hiding from something. It's like well, no actually I think he's getting rich. And and a lot of people will go hang out in the middle of nowhere ticket rich and why is it called the man who sold the world I was thinking about that it was Literally selling off the ors of Pluto and that's why We have called the episode, a businessman. or Or is the World Callisto be maybe? It just like okay. So far most of the episodes have had something in the title that kind of makes you go and Siren Song was a little bit of a stretch but. I didn't quite get this one so. Let me just double check here. I've already picked on Mister Peres acting. The KRISHA yes. At first, it comes off like we need to bring this guy to justice. This criminal is horrible horrible horrible man doesn't it. You sit us but once she gets there it suddenly it's like this guy's got a secret I need to secure the justice angle seems to fall away and now I'm wondering because I think I've mentioned this Lucretia Z. only one on the ship I like she seems to be the genuine human being this is not entirely consistent I. Know She works for her dad she's desperate for her dad's love and approval and she's not obviously evil. A well, there are factions but never, but even the good ones are somewhat if your but. Keeping. My Dante doesn't know any of this yet and he has some vague hits something going on she has secrets. So consider what she's telling Dante and what she's keeping and what she wants. She says when she's talking to Novak in private. Yeah. So my question is then is it all a front? Is She really just the scheming? Member of Orchard or was there some with there's some honesty and integrity in her indignation that that bid about I was in the troops that liberated the concentration camp and I saw a horrible it was. And is she is she I mean I'm not saying she didn't do that but was that just a cover so that she could get at him. Or is she conflicted? Is She she both? A decent human being and an evil co-conspirator that could tolerate casino. That's the next question you if orchard put up the bounty and they're bringing back Novak, then I could bring him to justice. They're going to put him to work in a lab. That's true. She must know that yes, the answer your question she is conflicted. As she sees also loyal to protect of of the crew and those kinds of conflict sometimes. And you can kind of see that I mean even in the scene wherein the the lunchroom in the earlier part of the episode. Once again, Percy's knowing Dante's flipping jerk and Lucretia is the only one there who comes off as peacemaker reasonable human being You know all of those things and not like she's just putting up with these people she actually sounds like she cares a little bit about their their wellbeing and. That it's just such an it, it's just such a confusing setup. Because again as they say, there have been things that have been happening in the story that make me think I can't trust the writers to not. Rent you can have character who's good throughout a show, and then suddenly a writer decides that they're GonNa make them evil and they can just flip them, and then it's up to the audience to do their head cannon to look back and go. Oh yes there was that time that she kicked a puppy. That was the proof that she was evil and the reality is they never even considered making her evil at that point and so. I'm I'm in I'm in a flux date righteous when I watch it I don't it just don't trust them not to pull the rug out from under me and and not have given me a believable back story to it at that stage and and so I'm still I'm Kinda in team. Lucretia camp here but they did give me some room to wonder about it. At this time, Lucretia is a A good person. You finds herself a difficult situations. I'm Aminata couple things out of the way before we turn our attention to Percy and billy. Ray. Because anything. Billy Roy boy. The closing monologues. I, felt all three of them back to back with a bit much. Percy's was the only one that really said anything to me. Dante's and Greece's was so unmemorable I can't remember what it was. But. You know Percy's was like I. Hate All human beings. They're all stupid. Everybody. I. Need You know all of the criminals that my uncle brings in. They're all bad people. I mean, all humans are bad. Like she she I suppose. I hold theory I hold a theory. Hypothesis. Let's get that right. I'll hold hypothesis and I have worked with police officers in my day job or retired police officers in my day job. That when they're on the beat or are they encounter two kinds of people They encounter people who are criminals. And they encounter people who are pissed off upset unhappy they've been broken in there in the terrible circumstance. They're frustrated. They're angry. They're hurt right? They never meet. The never in a good situation. And if you're constantly day in and day out and day in and day out, just subjected to the worst, you will think the worst of course and in working with these retired place and some of them were homicide cops you do not ever want to have lunch with Hamas X. Homicide cop telling you about. Twenty years on the force because it's Hor horrific and and you know they, they can be laughing and joking about it and And Nice enough people. But you can really tell that their souls have been levered up from from all. The horrific. So I got that from Percy I. that's kind of what they're going at because the only people personally ever bumps into apart from the crew are criminals are the criminals. But she is self aware of it enough to know that the only people she encounters are criminals. So I would I would hope that if you. Put into together like that, which she clearly did in that monologue. That she would be open would not paint the entire human species in that light. Those were the thoughts that came to mind is she gave that thing I said that's a little bit over the line, but then Percy is nothing if not over the line. In in all things or under the line depending on which particular thing is she's doing. Personally not well adjusted. She is in need of shrink worst possible way. Just, going to say is one heck of a big landing bay that actually that's in the redux the. Able to give it that big landing Bay Reduc so it fit well with the ret conned interiors on this on four for the second season. BUT if you're watching it and they original on alternate is a different experience. It's a much smaller ship much smaller landing. What it reminded me of is the completely asked nine interiors that they use on the j.j Abrams Star Trek films our brewery at Barilla and and the interior of the discovery I've never watched that piece of shit never mind. So. Well it like the brewery they will have. You know they'll show shots of elevators traveling through completely absolutely vast empty dead space. Visualization Department what were you thinking? What what what what what universal you do? You think you're supposed to be in A few years you're supposed to have the enterprise from the cage. Well. Okay. There was one of the short tracks which are made by the people of the you know the discovery crew and it was set on the enterprise of the cage era with spock and number one and they are trapped in an elevator and when you get outside the elevator, the inside of the enterprise is a vast huge empty series of. Like almost like a roller coasters were other elevators or along on different, you know they're not in. She's need to go. How stupid is your graphic designer department and that's what I felt when I saw that landing bag, I thought inside of the discovery stupid wasted space. It's got what four landing pads in it that take up approximately one sixteenth of the total volume of that space. For All of them put together and then there's just this big and maybe there's an excuse like like the gap at the Front of the Millennium Falcon or something that's supposed to be some sort of a grappling hook that they read in or. Maybe some sort of cruise ship docks inside the front of the thing that's massive but it just like. What you're getting, you're getting to a point about the ship I preferred the ship in unaltered first season it was smaller it was rougher looking. Yet sold the idea of being a former luxury liner that is no longer luxury and the landing bay was much smaller. So it I preferred that I don't know why people read condit for season two, and then that left the situation that when people went through due to remastering they just brought season one. To season. Two optics. With with with with with with very few exceptions. I we talk about the damn virus building. Right okay Elvis. Virus I it's bizarre. is the part I really don't like I was going through IMDB looking at the cast list on this and I recognize that the actor was Mr, Simon? Fenton. Thought that name was familiar. So I'll look I clicked on page and he was in one of my favorite movies back in nineteen ninety-three. Matinee I am not familiar with that which is is stars John Goodman as a maker of Z grade science fiction horror movies. and He's in the Florida keys in October nineteen, sixty, two debut in his new movie meant half man half aunt all terror-. I. In just in time it was at the movies the movies cool and he's debut in this turns out during the Cuban. Missile? Crisis. It's a cool movie. Find it watch it. Simon Fenton played the older of of two brothers. Sons of a sailor aboard one of the US ships during the crisis. And I absolutely loved Simon. FELTON's role in Matt Neck. verita charming little movie directed by Joe Dante It's worth a watch Simon Felton as the billy ray virus is insufferable. I was personally insulted. I was personally insulted as a computer programmer. I am always insulted whenever they personify the work of computer programmers as this sort of stereotypical pop culture. REVEILLE. What I'm talking about sleep. Kinda. Go for that like. counterculture. So I'M GONNA I'M GONNA write my computer program to have more stupid characteristics that I've always want. No computer programmer ever does that the the jerk on drastic Pop. Him. One. For for bringing computer programmers down and the guy who thought this is what computer programmers do. I am I am not on board with this at all and as bad as it is, and it's ridiculous it is that he would become like Carpaccio A. Hologram. That then apparently has to as he floats down the hallway the he infects things nearby him that blow up and stuff, which is also not in any logical way consistent to what a computer virus would do. It wouldn't need to be floating down the hallway and taunting. Yes. No, it was. It was awful. It was it was just awful. It was insulting. And then there is the other two phases of it carve edgy notices. As soon as he arrives on the there's no I think I've been in talk intruded. And then doesn't do anything until later when he goes I was right I was being invaded. Let's do some antivirus too late gone in the Gameboy. and. I yeah. Now, that part bad worst part Percy's response to that. Would you please leave? Could you go? Could could you just go away? Don't don't call me. I'm just going to sit in this chair and Sulk. Book the fact that she has reprogrammed Carpaccio, to bypass his privacy protocols and his memory tells me or I'm supposed to believe from previous episodes that Percy's pretty darn good with a computer. I got that impression but she doesn't give the slightest evidence that she's. Always flying me into the older anomaly well, guess I'm going to die. I don't get it. I mean I I. Don't get this character I. Don't get a Gin. It's not exactly like I'm trying. I'm not trying to fault the actress I have absolutely faulting the writers on this I just don't. Know what to make of this character? I just don't know what to make of this character. As you say, she's not mentally well adjusted and I guess maybe I'm supposed to think she's a nut job and therefore nothing she does is supposed to make sense. There's a large sympathize with that. So I mean interrupt there might she there's a line. I think it. To I. Of Season Two. Car Garage area says somehow she makes sense to herself. Wow. Not, to say that that isn't somebody who really exists. You know that that that there aren't people who I see them. Standing outside the TACO bell talking to a light post sometimes. You know in quite the heated conversation, but it's really really hard to portray that on screen as one of your protagonists because there's nothing to latch onto I. Don't know how she's GonNa Behave I I don't I'm not sympathetic with the way she behaves. Oddly enough the guy shouting at the lamppost outside Taco Bell I have some I have sympathy for because they know he's Homeless, he's the product of a health system that dumps are dumps are ill mentally ill people on the street to wonder and bag. But I, I don't even get that for Percy because she's got up home if nothing else and she's got people who feed her and. Send her to school and give her something to do and are there to talk to her and. Presumably there to help her and yet still she's uncomfortably unpredictably unsympathetic. and. Pretty just isn't enough and giving her the opportunity to dance around the floor, which is presumably just for sex appeal I. I don't know I don't know a cheese the most problematic character for me in the show which by the way question what the heck was she dancing among That looked to me like just broken bits of the ship lying all over the floor. Yes an did. Did. What did Billy Wright say when he should have this place is a dump yeah. Yes right. It looked like one. I get that we've seen sabotage the ship for no apparent reason in the past and I suppose perhaps she's just recently taken a hammer to some consoles and smashed bits of them in they're lying on the floor. Now she's dancing amongst the ruins because she is the goddess of chaos or whatever is going on in her mind but but of course, we didn't see that. So all I see is like couldn't you of at least pushed the stuff over to the side of the room before you dance around amongst it on the? Floor. and. How Are. You took care of this ship. Actually A. Very. Very, very slight spoiler. We will see her be competent. Okay. Well, I mean we saw Dante in and decrease should be competent for a few moments in this episode when they captured bell. But that that's that's good. That's good. We'll see we'll see some good coming out of I, I I look forward to something I can grab onto and go. There's a reason she's on this show and it's not just to drive plot complications that shouldn't be there by the time we get in I'm trying to thinking in particular some moments toward the middle of the season where she is we find out why Dante keeps her around. It's not just because she's related that she's actually a very good mechanic slash engineer. What we've been told that but. It's hard to tell between bouts of her damaging, the ship. And fixing it. It's like the the mechanic who breaks your car just to fix it isn't a mechanic there a con artist. You know. So it's a little bit like inflating your repair estimates its. Dodgy dodgy a best. Yeah. I don't know that I have anything else. That's far more than I expected to get out of it. Either something I wrote the question here on my nuts. How has been oblivious for so long I thought bell was an artificial life form throughout the entirety of the episode. I thought she you know that comment about a robot and I I really thought that where we were going was that bell was some sort of off shoot of his genetic experiments. All that work that he'd done at all the things that he was trying to do, which we are not told what they are until the very end of the episode when suddenly it's like Oh. Yes. I was working on the divinity cluster on isolated to things they were consciousness and telepathy down. And then suddenly all that got thrown out the window to and then it turned out, she killed him and she died and there was never a merit never a word. So my fury that she was is some way part of his experiment. It should. She's just an incredibly hot girl who is hanging out with this rich guy and apparently likes him apparently seems like apparently No ship to get off the planet. New nope which is weird. But they go I. Think he was rich enough he could afford. To have a ship just in case. Yes. Kinda and anyway just never told her class a wave that comes across every twenty, eight, thousand, six, hundred, ninety, three years hits. That's right. You've got that you've got that unpredictable cyclic way. By the way speaking of actors who have been in the show before and I don't have the name here. But the actor who played Novak he'll get the like many many things but listeners to few life whole Halsey. Will know him as the defender who tried to get. Roj Blake off of his paedophile charges. Very, first episode of Blake's seven he and his wife discovered that Blake was a setup discovered that it was a conspiracy going all the way up to the top, and then he unfortunately made the mistake of reporting it to his superiors who were part of the conspiracy and had him in his wife killed which is like the last scene is Blake's ship leaves the planet it flies up into the air and then you pan down to his body and his wife's body dead on the ground where they've been killed by. Dev tarrant, I believe it was to that scene now i. Quite ally he's in another episode of He's a lot of shows he was in a lot of programs. Looks like he moved to the United, states because he's got appearances in like Magnum Pi and the new Perry Mason and. Simon and Simon, and just just job you see him a lot. Axiom enough that recognized him but Yeah Yeah Okay. So I see a character yeah. Yeah. British actor comes to America and they're going to get a lot of character acting jobs but he was doing that back back home to so. Jeff anything else in particular no I think we covered it episode six actually the first one film or something like that. But not but not the sixth one filmed. With six one aired peer pressure peer pressure as in peers of your P.. E.. R.. Peer. Not P. I E. R. Pressure I thought maybe it was a docking thing but space ducks appear. Pressure. I will then in that case can thank you for joining me my pleasure. Thank you listeners I. Do hope you'll join us again next time on fusion patrol. You've been listening to fusion control listener supported podcast, find out how you can be a sponsor and get early access to all episodes and more at Patriotair dot com slash fusion patrol. Come join the conversation on facebook or twitter. All episodes are available at fusion patrol dot. com. Our music is fight the future by amber. Wolf. This has been a lone locust production.
Is there really a hidden pyramid in Alaska?
"They have you ever wondered, how do the smartest marketers cut through the noise? I'm Bob Pittman chairman and CEO of iheartmedia and on my new show. Math and magic. I'm sitting down with the day's most gifted disrupters. But when I did this people thought I was crazy. They're really no other rules, aside from, you know, no full frontal nudity go out there and do it. Don't like to follow the trend of things. Listen, it subscribed to math and magic on apple podcast, iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcast. From UFO's to psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know a production of iheartradio's, how stuff works. Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Knowle's here in spirit. They call me Ben, we are joined as always with our super producer, Paul mission control deck, and most importantly, you argue or here and that makes this stuff, they don't want you to know, for check in that has a no. Usually, I, I ask ask you, I, I just wanna say after energetic, I am. So glad to see you man it, yeah, yet it's been too long. It has been we, you know, for any of you that don't know out there. Let's just give them a little behind the curtain. We record three times a week, the show so we, we usually have a tie like time to be together in a room talking catching up before recording. And everything and and has been notes all the time. We are friends outside of this magical darkened room where we record. Yeah. So. Not having that has been. It's, it's not been great. So I'm weird. Also happy to see you, sir. Thanks, man. If is good. That. Yeah. I was. Let's see Paul and I were in Texas in Jeff Haag. Oh for second. And I am hopefully by the time all our fellow listeners here. This I will have returned from Brussels. Wow. That's cool. I'm going there tomorrow as record this all my gosh. I and now now with all that update all that prologue after ask our, our you doing man, almost was the was sent you some prank text at the Alamo. But decided against all man, I would've accepted, I'm doing really, well, you know, everything in my life is focused on my son, and we're doing this thing where every morning, he makes a picture of a letter and then we talk about what that letter is. And then the whole day is about that letter. It's so cool. So, like walking around going to the grocery store, pointing out things that are like start with b it, it's, so it's so much. Fun and. Yeah, the whole thing was my wife's idea, and she so talented and smart about doing these kind of things. She makes everyday unique and exciting for my sons I it's really great. That's what's going on with me. Then that's great. I, I want to ask you, how you're doing personally. What's going on? Yeah, but I have a feeling you would respond. No comment. Okay. So let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and get into the episode everyone. We're talking pyramids today. Right. Yes, pyramids pyramid. Some of the oldest known structures built by human beings. So far as we know and these structures have also captivated human beings. Not, not just in the recent days when seen as mysterious and enigmatic but during the times that they were built, right? And yeah. Especially coming across let's say you're walking along a river. You're following a river in exploration of some kind in out in the distance, you see something towering in. It has sharp angles to it which you don't find anywhere in nature. And as you get closer, you realize how large the structure is, it's not just the mountain in the middle of the desert. Yeah. Yes. Fascinating to put ourselves back in space and time in a previous episode we explored the story. As of pure mids in other parts of the world, which is a real, it's a real thing. You know what I mean? Like. Com o one of the earliest pyramids, we know about would be the Ziggurats in Mesopotamia. Right. Absolutely. They don't get a lot of street credit. You know, no allot of people never heard of Mesopotamia until Ghostbusters came out. Eighties. No, no, no. Maybe the exorcist to be fair. Oh, there you go. Because isn't position. Maybe possessive samarium it all sounds familiar, it all sounds familiar. Right. So in that episode we, we explore what pyramids are getting to the architecture of the structures how they're typically built and so on. And we talk about how there are multiple different kinds of pyramids. Right. Yeah. And this, this reminded me of a conversation that there's little tangent. But I thought you would enjoy a saw one of those internet hypotheticals. Right. Was it hypothetical questions? Your friends post on the internet, and it said, okay, here's the gist. If someone gave you ten million dollars right now cash in hand with the following caveats, would you take the money here? The caveats one a snail will follow you for the rest of your life to if the snail touches you, you will die. And then there were a couple of their snow related things. Yeah. The first question with that was well, what type of snail, not all, you know, when we see the word snail we all think of like the same crenelated shell and the, you know, the, the like living booger that crawls around under it, but there are different sorts of snails, and there are different sorts of pyramids. So the thing that is interesting about this far purpose is that there's so many misconceptions about pyramids. Right, people think when we think of appear, mid we think of the angular structure, you're describing I love that moment. You took us back to where there's someone maybe living a hundred gatherer lifestyle or something, and they're they're walking along the river, and then they see the seat of human civilization. It's breathtaking and they don't get immediately killed by the security forces or of some kind rights, right? Or the crocodile or the other wildlife. Yes. So. So. When we think of fairmont's we think of pyramids in Egypt located in northern Africa, and it's all because of the movie, Stargate just completely because of the movie stark, which is an amazing documentary is so. It's strange because as we found there appear mid in other parts of the world, right? Oh, yeah. They're, they're not just in Egypt. We in our previous episodes. We found them in South America. We are we knew that they were in South America. We also found him in Africa parts of Asia. I mean, it's it's fascinating and we keep talking about this, because anytime we bring up here, mids, you just get back to the question of why, like, why, why the heck why did you do? What is it? Why, why did you do that? Yeah. That's my favorite part two. You don't like obelisk weird. Remember when we went to we went up to DC. We film some stuff about the Washington Monument. Yes. Which once upon a time was going to be, you know, a statue of George Washington. But let's notes is ridiculously phallic thing you can crawl up inside of an reached the top. Yeah, man, the tip, I don't know. That's what it's all about. About that. But really the just that, that concept is still baffling to me with all the varying types like you're talking about the cigarettes. The, you know, the more angular pyramids. The stepped pyramids all these things. It's just there, so symbolic. And I think outwardly symbolic of something to have that shape. It also goes back to, you know, the construction process of, you know building. Oh, been that way. Right. Right. But still, it's just I don't know. There's something so mysterious about it. It's true yet we know that. We know that the primary purposes of pyramids imperium like structures I would also include, maybe mounds in the North American continent. We know that the primary purposes tended to be spiritual or few narrow, right. These gigantic tombs Taj Mahal style, or these are in the case of some cigarettes site. Holy sites. Sacred sites of worship wherein rituals are enacted. At least that's our best understanding from the work of archaeology in our rights, right? The work of some brilliant archaeologists. And then also the work of some just morally bankrupt ones back in the day. And then that's you know, like the, the racism that gave rise later. I of the idea of lost civilizations. And then later to the idea of extraterrestrials because the people for we have to this fact, the people who wrote a lot of early. Early stories about discovering these difference amazing structures in different parts of the world. They. They were somehow on some level offended, by the idea that the ancestors of the local people could have built those so there you have it. We know that, that's the that's the craziest thing we know that. Purus despite being ancient the ancient pyramids instructors, we talk about remain controversial today. Not just because of the institutionalized discrimination and stuff, but also because people continued to claim that they have discovered boring chip pyramids. Yeah. Thanks to Google or. May don't you know I love Google earth and lighter this true. We we'll be all do their amazing tools. It just it gives an opportunity to at least searched from behind a computer screen, the entire planet for things that look angular or out of place or, you know, square rectangular, right? And it's not to say that these things don't exist somewhere in the world. Because in many parts of the world. The surrounding ecosystem will eat everything made by man. You know what I mean? You can build something in jungle, and it can just for all intents and purposes, it can vanish. Yeah. And I think, you know, I you and I probably both still check in to see how many new ruins are ancient sites. Are found just an Amazon alone? Yeah. Who's a ton. So, so we know that these things do exist. But we also know that there's a lot of exaggeration in a lot of hyperbole involved in these claims generally these discoveries become controversial for one reason or another. And it's not it's not a case of, you know, someone pretending to be a scientist in line or selling snake oil as is so often, the case in a lot of scientific research, the scientists the archaeologist, the experts, they say one thing, maybe. In a relatively obscure journal of some sort. And then someone someone else says, hey, this would be a great headline for my my blog. My, my. Pop culture news thing. Right. Right. Fringe website, my French website. Sure. And then, then all the sudden what the scientists really were saying gets convoluted in telephoned into something different. And that's where we get into these claims of ancient hitherto unknown civilizations. Or. They try to find something that is a selling point for pyramid. Because in mainstream news or infringe, websites, just saying, hey, here's a pyramid found that confirms long-held beliefs that this group of people lived in this way in or eight this crop, or etc. Etc. We want wants a map purply you know, we want some, some superlatives like when you graduate high school, boy, and the reader, and, or listener, or whoever, I think is just my opinion wants to have that discovery moment that Eureka moment where it's oh, civilization was older, or civilization did exist in this part of the world or you know that kind of I don't even know exactly what it is. It's that it's a mystery being solved right in and you want that answer, even if it doesn't even if it's a question that you weren't even really asking in that. But you see the potential for this answer to a cool thing. I'm not sure doing that, right. Yeah. We like we like patterns and solutions. Yeah. We like seeing we like seeing the bridge between concept and concept. Be human beings are all about connection, right? Yeah. I think I think that's a profoundly student because now we're talking about a psychological drive. And so what, what does this? What does this Dr mean when we read about pyramids will it means like you said, they're all these claims that this is the oldest one? Here's the biggest revelation that you're gonna get with regards to this whole thing, and we're going to give it to you right now. Lives, such as let's say, it's, let's say it's nineteen Ninety-six and you're at the independent and you get a you know, a tip about some seashell constructions in Brazil. Uh-huh. And you post it up and you put a title that says something like world's oldest pyramids are discovered in Brazil, but that's literally all you have to put up the title. That's what they put. World's oldest pyramids are discovered. Right. Because with this kind of reporting people love C, an S in ES, t the big est- the old s these strange s right? And so when we when we see the world's oldest pyramid. We think what Brazil that is definitely not Egypt so sue. The, the story with this is interesting because this is just one of a pattern of oldest pyramid claims. Right. The resilient pyramids date back to two thousand two thousand three thousand or whatever you prefer, and the construction techniques are different because again, not every pyramid is. Created equal. These are, as you said, Matt built of seashells and they were built over a long period of time. But for, I think starting to maybe nineteen ninety two or so about four years for the articles published a teams of researchers based in the area had been trying to figure out what was up with these things because they had been largely deconstructed. Yes or. Broken down right? Just over through natural processes and stuff or you know, destroyed, right? And they were literally called in that article, the, the remnants were called piles of ancient rubbish. Yet exactly yet, they were the words deliberately built, but. While archaeologists estimate there used to be a ton of them thousand pyramids. There some thousands thousands years old only ten percent survive in any Boracay Geisel way they thought the structures were a hundred and sixty feet high with basis that were up to thirty seven acres. So this makes them much bigger than the earliest examples in Egypt, not as high, and also, they took a long, long time to build. So that's a claim. And that's, that's a fairly reputable claim the one thing that makes it different when you really think about pyramids in Egypt, is that pyramid in Egypt have survived in not the best condition, but as pyramids go there they're top notch in. Oh, yeah. They are what fans of classic cars. Call cherry. Condition, right? Yes. Yeah. So unfortunately, a lot of the pyramids in Brazil are not like that. They don't exist anymore, but. Now you can claim that's the this is the oldest pyramid full. Yeah. In again, when you're establishing the age of something like that. Let's say the primary construction is made of seashells the, the mode of determining the age of those is to then carbon date, somehow, the, the structure, or whatever is made up of those things. And if you're dealing with seashells, I guess, by carbon dating the shells themselves is how you get that number or that range, but still. I there's so much variance there. I guess that's why you have something like some of these are two thousand three thousand years old. Some of them are up to five thousand years old, and those estimates to get so ballpark at some, you know. Oh, yeah. Speaking of. One could say, however, that, you know what the, the margin on the margin on the dating process here may be pretty large, but it doesn't invalidate everything. So sorry Egypt. That's it for sill has what what we now know is Brazil has the oldest pyramids butts, this was not the only claim for the oldest pyramid. The debate continues today will tell you more about it afterward from our sponsors. I can't believe it. That Gerald is presenting the quarterly budget report with finger puppets. Look here comes a one point seven percent decrease in finished overhead I everybody no, I can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on car insurance with gyco, are you dope, projected increase in organic Q three revenue? Believe it. Geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. We're back and we're going to jump to a different part of the world who where in a different time. Oh, yes. So we were in the ninety s and ninety six to be exact. Let's jump to just a couple years ago twenty sixteen and in casick's Dan, that's right. In two thousand sixteen. A report came from an archaeologist, working at the cosmic National University of fellow named Victor Novell's enough. This in apologies for the mispronunciation there. I he claimed that specialist working at the cya Kinski archaeology institute in car. Gonda Kazahstan led by a guy named eager Kukushkin had discovered the world's oldest pyramid in wait for it. 'cause there we go. There we go. And that's another oldest Furet. And it's you know, it's another one of these super captivating headlines. Captivating stories share the headline itself was world's oldest pyramid was found in. It's in Keswick. Those from nature world news. So, you know, slightly different publication, but still, it's that same kind of title. That's just going to get your attention. So it's believed to be built roughly thousand years earlier than some of the more prominent pyramids that are found in Egypt. Yeah. A thousand years before. That is that's pretty significant if that's proven. Right. So it's located in this place called the sorry IKEA steps, and it's near the city of Kaganda. It's like three thousand nine hundred miles northeast of Cairo Egypt. You know, that's that's a long way that doesn't comparison really ugly. And you know, it's similar in appearance to some of the other pyramids that exists, there, the pyramid of dosier or Joe Joe's. I don't know how to pronounce any of those things. I'm sorry. But again, it's, it's really interesting. You can find the article on it. If you go, and look and, you know, there's more you can find here at pops up on popped up in a couple of places in two thousand sixteen th you know, Yahoo wrote about it, you can also find the statement from novels and all of I who believes that this was. This is what they call a step pyramid. So it doesn't have that complete flat angle rice, like a pyramid accusers something. But he believes it was a Moslem built for a local king. Still the age of it seems legit. But does that make it the oldest pyramid or structure of this type? No. Say researchers in Indonesia, you see geophysicist, Danny Hillman, not with Jaya and again. Thank you. Thank you to one who tuned into our episode on the around men, yak erring maniac and. Told us that if our pronunciation was terrible. At least it was endearing an amusing. Yes. So hopefully that's what we're going for here folks. Improv rules. Yeah. This, this geophysicist based out of the nation institute of sciences, analyzed a site called good knowing Padang in Java in Indonesia and. They said that this this thing that people thought was just a weird hill for a long, long time was actually a pyramid and a very, very old pyramid. This is by the way, one of the more well researched claims at this point. Yes. Which is not a dean on the other pyramids. This is just to say that the site in Indonesia, the team in Indonesia had more time to spend an access to better tech. Yeah, they did. They had a ground penetrating radar and a couple of other things, and they also took photographs of the site and publish them and made them available so that you could see you could really see it rather than just being, you know, some text on a website somewhere that always lends credibility. If you go to science alert dot com, you can find some images aerial photographs that were taken and some like closer. Up to the structures. It's, it's really fascinating to see. I this one. This one gets me. This is compelling. Yeah. This is compelling. This would strange about this. When is that well was presented in an academic setting? I think on December twelfth at the annual media in the American geophysical union, it was still considered highly controversial, but the research is compelling. You can you can read it in depth. If you just just check it out online. It looks like. There were four separate layers, and they were built over thousands of years. So the first layer the one that we would consider the surface looks to be about three thousand five hundred years old. The second layer however, looks to be eight thousand years old, and then they get to the really crazy stuff. This is where it becomes super controversial, right? Yeah. The third layer according to their estimate and somewhere between nine thousand and twenty eight thousand years old. Yeah. Twenty eight thousand I mean maybe honestly, maybe maybe we just don't know yet man. But that seems a bit of a stretch, I mean. It's pretty crazy. If you look at it, too, they've got a an example of the layering initials, you all the different ones in the structure and how. How it looks and that initial the initial layer the talking about the one that's that has that range of age. It is the most sharply angled the, the most basic pyramid structure, like part of the entire thing. And, you know, if that truly could have been built, even just at the minimum of that number nine thousand years ago that is so significant for humanity in the history of, you know, of, of bipedal intelligent things walking around on this earth. That's pretty dang cool. I can't wait to get into Nizhny Damon. There's so much history there that we just don't know about the west. So one thing we do have to say about this about this site is that when, when I mentioned that the research was considered controversial. I mean it's a ton of people criticize. The team's conclusions and their methods the very much going hard on the pain with this right now. The presentations that they've made remain non peer reviewed, which is a big criticism by their, their opponents of, but time will tell right. Yeah. The wheels of archaeology grind slow but exceedingly fine, if we're paraphrasing, and they've been at this since twenty thirteen so it looks like they're, they're giving a serious go. And this is not going to be the last ancient site. That's found. Right. Absolutely. So we know that there may be even older stuff out there and the I you know, it's almost. It's almost the wrong way to phrase, the question when we say, let search for the oldest man made thing because there's so many things we don't know let's just search for all the old stuff. That's, that's what we need to do. Right. Yeah. Because so much of it has already disappeared. But this leads us to we had a long preamble. This leads us to something that I think captivated us, you, you hit me to this met more and more people have started to claim that Indonesia, Kazahstan Egypt Brazil that they have nothing on the true. Old structures that there are much much older, pyramids out there in some of the world's most remote locales. We always think of Egypt when it comes to pyramids. But what about Alaska in? We'll talk about that right afterward from our sponsor, are you following your passion. I'm Carla Marie, the host of side, Hustler's. I talked to people following their passion outside of their regular job. Everyone either has a side hustle, or wants to create a side hustle. Get inspired to start your own business, or just hear the story and hustle of every side hustler. Get motivated with side Hustler's. Listen and subscribe on the iheartradio app at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Here's where it gets crazy. It's true fellow conspiracy. Realist in recent years. Various groups have claimed pyramids created by some unknown civilization. Can be found in both Alaska and Antarctica. Now, we've explored the Antarctica theory briefly before yes, we have and but before even get into that. Let's let's establish here. Just the concept of general belief in how humanity began in the fertile crescent in, in parts of Africa, tires Euphrates, exactly we're, we're the rivers were where the water was where the the land, again was fertile. And people could survive ease more easily. Let's say even though life was a struggle of, and then humanity spread out from there going to all corners of the earth over over the. Of time. Right. So when you introduce an idea that, perhaps, there's an even older version of humanity that existed in some other part of the world. That's, that's why it's such a controversial idea, because it goes against the basic understandings that are that are generally accepted. I see that's a good point, because, you know, the most popular theory for human human arrival on north and South America's, we call them today is the crossing the Bering strait via the Bering land bridge, which was about twenty thousand years ago. I think so the issue with that is for, for instance, there's a twenty eight thousand year old pyramid, Indonesia, the, the issue with this idea of appear in Alaska is how is one of pure. Resources and time line. Right. Because if you, if you notice a lot of these pyramids, that we've mentioned in other parts of the world are built in more human friendly environments that would I mean so the idea of pyramids being built in these freezing areas seems like something that would turn our understanding of history completely on its head. If this were true. So what about Antarctica? Let's just quick and dirty a we talked about this war jail the other episode. If you have time let's just say in nineteen, you know, ten ish the early nineteen ten's the teens there to some British explorers were hanging out in antitoxin. They were looking around going. This is a pretty desolate barren. I'm not seeing much here until they saw a rock, nice, pointy rock. And they said, hey, let's. This on our map. It's a pyramid. It's the pyramid rock. Pyramid. Great minaly. That's what it is. You know, it was probably some kind of natural formation or from shearing from ice or something, generally, let's say that. That's probably what it was. It isn't necessarily exactly what it was. Or who knows what they found. There may be a mystery out there in Antarctica still with the old pyramid rock. We haven't been able to find it thus far. Neither of us have been to Arctic, but that this, let's call it a seed, this concept of, oh, there's a pyramid on this map of Antarctica somebody labeled that, that becomes catalyst for all kinds of stories, right? Yes. Some were admittedly fiction such as at the mountains of madness ridden by HP lovecraft in one thousand nine thirty one. Some were more. Rumor mill kind of stuff reports. It is if they were true in, in newspapers, right? Following decades. But from two thousand twelve to two thousand sixteen. There was a new round of rumors spreading and the they were based on photographs that, apparently showed some something some geographical feature in Antarctica, with regular triangular sides, the kind of stuff that to your point earlier in the show, would not occur in nature. And so it was the argument about the face appear, mid Amar's all over again, people. One end were saying this is true, someone's covering this up. This is stuff, they don't want you to know. And then there were other people saying, well if we don't get photographs of this thing multiple angles. How do we know this is not just the trick of perspective, which is different from from immediately, calling BS? It's just saying go back there. Take more pictures. Let's, let's verify. What is it the old adage trust? But verify. Yeah, yeah. Right. And it's funny because the there were even more rumors spreading think the favourite is our, our returning, a returning champion of our show buzz, Dr rendezvous Waldron returned in this story because thing in twenty six teen toward the end of twenty sixteen there was this rumor that he posted a picture of this ice pyramid as we were calling it and then said, we are out in Dade dizzy itself. And then he rapidly deleted it. Yeah, that was the rumor now is the rumors. But what if he really did that? How crazy would that be? Dr rendezvous like look at this pyramid. They're here too. Oh my God. Oh man. I don't know that would be that would be out of character for him. Yeah. I really would. Oh, gosh. That's 'cause he's he's known sort of as a, you know, as someone who's trolled conspiracy theorists before or what he calls conspiracy theorist, but anyways, so that's, that's Antarctica at this point. Don't get us wrong. There's a lot of very strange stuff that happens on that continent. It's part of the reason I think that you and I wanna go, yes, I, maybe we can talk Paul into going with us. But he's had some Iceland experience. Mapping me. He would he would be fantastic as a guide and a spiritual adviser. I think okay. Yeah. Paul can you come with us cool? He says, yes. Great. He's in let us know also, if you have been to Antarctica we'd love to hear your adventures. So Alaska was talking about this. This is this is a little. More recent and this is a bit more enigmatic, according to a couple of people, there's something strange buried in the ground about fifty miles from mount. Mckinley today, the Musto well-groomed proponent of this idea is a writer, and you have just named Linda Moulton how here's how the story starts are right travel back with us to Anchorage in nineteen ninety two. This is just for comparison, the same year that the Brazilian research team began digging into the sea shell pyramids shrew. Yeah. Nineteen Ninety-two same year. There was a television news broadcast from channel thirteen out of Anchorage. And they had a segment about this discovery by geologists and other scientists of an underground pyramid. That they said was many times the size of existing pyramids in Egypt and specifically the great pyramid of Giza, exactly. So here's how here's the rumor, here's how it went out so US. Scientists were concerned about nuclear tests being conducted underground up by the government of China. So they set up seismic equipment in Alaska to monitor this possibility of, of nuclear testing in keep in mind, just while this'll happening. It's president George H W Bush in the White House. Good, call good, call this discovery again, was only allegedly reported and a scientists get accord, this is a campfire story, if you're listening, you met Paul, and I were all gathered around a campfire. Okay. So let's use our campfire voices. So the next day scientist, visits the station, this channel thirteen out of Anchorage. And he says, could I get a copy of that video? No such broadcast exist. They responded. Can you was stonewalled twenty years later? A retired military officer named Douglas aid mutual claim to have seen this channel thirteen report, and he gave this information to you. Follow just investigative journalist Linda Moulton how, how confirmed the nuclear test, but seems to agree with Muslim that there's more to the story. You see she believes that there is a pyramid. And that any information about it has been covered up by someone or some organization, feing something done on the way. Oh man. That's that's awesome. It's awesome. As even more fuel to the fire here because you see a. A was also a video that came out. Apparently recently. Yeah. That, that showed footage of this pyramid that a team of explorers. Stumbled upon. Right. But there are some problems with the video to, oh, there's certainly problems with the video. My understanding is that has this thing this called text avoids. Oh, right. Right. Right. Word people want to disguise their voices of accents, or what, what have you just feel the type something anonymously, and then have the computer vocalise it? Can you do a computer voice? Jimmy mine would just probably be misconstrued as Stephen hawking. Oh, I see. I want to stay away from that one. Yeah. Yeah. But it's the similar thing, where it's a program that is, is vocalising the words there, but the. I just want to get really fast because this is the most modeling thing for me with this whole shirt, ori- this guy wire story there. Because, you know, it mentions that this, this person Linda, how confirmed the nuclear test that China conducted. Right. Well, we can also confirm that, that occurred or at least there was reporting about it in places like the New York Times, and the Chicago Tribune in may specifically of nine hundred ninety two when China conducted a large test, and the signals, or the vibrations from that test were registered throughout the United States, specifically their system of detection devices that are all over the planet, right? Right. And have been since shortly after the invention of nuclear weapons. Yeah. So, so that story itself has its that green of truth thing where when you're looking into a campfire story like this, you begin to. To see the walls. There are limiting. Oh there. We're actually in a space. This really does exist wherever this is or whatever this is. But then you go looking a little bit further. And you get to that point where. Linda says, you know, the, the actual location of where this pyramid is though has been secretive away. It's been covered up, and then it goes back to your original question, what we're talking about pyramids and general question, motive, why cover this up? Why does he is? It is it is it, perhaps a sacred site for local cultures or is it a site that is considered unclean, for some reason? The problem with, with both of those claims is that other holy places throughout the world have almost always become tourist destinations. Yeah. And you could make money off of those things. And that's nice. But here's the thing. Yes. Alaska where it was located. Not going to get tourism out there. Probably you got to build a bunch of civilization. I maybe someone already did. That's the argument. Right. That's the argument. So it is true, though, you're absolutely right. That there wasn't just one test in nineteen ninety two there was a test on the twenty first of may attest on the twenty fifth of September and a failed test on November second all in the same year. So this, this was extensive testing. But the one you had mentioned in the New York Times article, it's true. That was the largest underground tests, the government of China had taken at that time. So it is true. But the, the problem here is that there's very little indication of a pyramid in Alaska from anybody other than these sources that we've named it does lead us to something into. That we, we had never covered before which was the existence of a Bermuda. Triangle in Alaska. The Alaskan Bermuda triangle. This is the kind of thing that a lot of more mainstream television producers love. Yes, you know, you can see I'm sure you can find a cheesy episode about this. But, but just so that everyone has the concept, maybe we can explore this and see if there's more send to it later, there is this belief that. Much like the devil's triangle in the Pacific or the Bermuda triangle in the Atlantic. Alaska has its own triangle in which people disappear. It's an area sparsely very sparsely populated wilderness. It's very cold. It's a Haas inhospitable location. Wild animals bound right in this, this triangles thought to stretch from barrow Alaska in the north, which I think was popularized in thirty days of night to Anchorage in south at the left all the way down to Juno. And. It's different because largely goes over land, right? Rather than Oche. Maybe there's a Bayer to that across you know, in, in this case, it's, it's generally just I think one of the concepts here is that it's generally forest areas it's mountain areas. There's a lot there's a lot of. It's very cold. There's a lot of ice. There's a lot of snow. There's a lot of all of these things that are somewhat in auspicious for humans. Right. Within this triangle area in the center of at least for you out to the edges and. You know, a lot of the claims that have to do with the devil's triangle, Bermuda triangle, and all these things, they have to do with a lot of magnetic anomalies a lot of times, they have to do with weather patterns that occur within those spaces, and you could. At least you can imagine something occurring here. We're in this. Some it's not desola- just it's not a place where a lot of humans gather and have all of their stuff. Right. I think we should do an episode on this in the future. I think so too, because the disappearances that have occurred over this little triangle in Alaska. They're, they're many, and they're pretty frightening since nineteen ninety eight more than sixteen thousand people vanished. In this, this area, mapped out as the triangle, this, contributed to an average of roughly four missing person reports for every one thousand people in Alaska that has more than. Double the national average cash. So not only are there. Relatively few people in this part of the world. But a lot of them go missing. Maybe, maybe Alaska's just a place where people get off the grid, you know. Or maybe they, they ended up at the pyramid. Who? Okay. Okay. Wrap up. Let's talk about the, the biggest at least most fascinating out their concept for why appear mid in Alaska would be covered up. All right. Let me just tell you what it is. Yes. I think you know it what is we've been talking about ancient. He like human civilization building or something like that. But the concept that perhaps all of these pyramids across the world. The big conspiracy were all influenced by the same extraterrestrial force that shaped humanity that perhaps seeded intelligence on this earth. His plan thinking, oh, put your put, right? Yeah. Like a an intelligent Pence Bermeo kind of thing that to me is, is the most captivating version of this of, like that's why a lot of these secrets are still hidden. That's why we don't truly understand the pyramids in Egypt. That's why we truly don't fully understand why they're everywhere in all of all of humanity was so fascinated by that shape. And that structure as kind of a sacred geometry argument to. Yeah. So Stargate stocking I mean not to not to diminish that, that would that would be amazing. If it were somehow true, the are the count. Argument people make for that, of course, is the at the time given. Understanding structure and technology. That was the easiest thing to build that would last for a long time. You know what I mean? I know I know I wish I you know what not I hope? The truth is out there to meet. A tell you what if we do meet extraterrestrials in our lifetimes, if I ever meet them, if you're not there, I, I am going to try to get them to build a pyramid even if they don't care what it is just like they think it's our, our Hello ritual. You spend the rest of their time with our species thinking that instead of, you know, waving or shaking hands or vocalizing you build someone appear mid as a way of greeting them from scratch, it'll be great. Yeah, it'll be worth it. Yeah, I'm so down with that. Let's get t shirts pyramids on them. I want I what I want to see is, let's do appear mid on the ground. Right. When this kind of a nice, kind of the surrounding would it depend? It doesn't matter what kind of music, or it could be whatever. But then above it is, an inverted version that has the lights on the top of it in the bottom, that's like hovering down or coming down. He didn't. So it's like as above so below. And it's kind of like the old UFO pictures where the UFO would be casting a tractor beam down on the ground. We could also. Oh, you know what? Let's go with that design brilliant. I have a caption. Tell me what you think. Okay aliens, the first pyramid scheme. No. Not yet. L dome. Yeah. Yeah. Good. No, Matt Frederick. But, but we want to hear your thoughts. Have you ever been to Antarctica? Do you think this, there's some sand to this Alaskan pyramid idea? Or do you think it's just another rumor in the echo chamber of the internet, a perhaps most importantly, and this will help us with an upcoming episode? What's your take on this idea of a again? For lack of a better phrase Alaskan Bermuda triangle. We'd love to hear from you. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. If you want to be our favorite part of the show, your fellow listeners, find us on, here's where it gets crazy. Our Facebook page where I recently asked for some suggestions for upcoming episodes. Yeah. And we got like hundreds of responses. So we've got to go through. Have you checked that? I haven't been on Facebook in weeks. That's awesome on. No. You don't know I'll take one for the ten. But check it out that threat still active and let us new. Let us know by writing to us with your ideas for upcoming episodes or your feedback. And if you if you don't care to sit down and write something out, or you don't like the social means you can call us. Yeah. That's right. Get your get those vocal chords involved, and call one eight three three as t- DWI, t k leave us a message. Tell us what you're thinking about an episode. Tell us all answer one of the questions that we ask him. One of the roads give a suggestion for something, you want to hear any of it all of it make us laugh. That's my favorite thing ever. Just if just be funny, I love, and it's, it's not a not a whole lot to ask and to put our money where our mouth is here. Shoutout. To EJ on. Here's where it gets crazy who heard us talking about skyer in and win a head and posted some pictures of us. Complete with with our helmets a horned helmets. I don't even know which helmets. Those are in the game like is that an iron helm that you're wearing been that's, that's the one from the ads original advertisements put. It's actually it's not the great home. Hold on. Hold on. No looks like he's wearing an oblivion home. No, no, no. He's not. It's not it's not. That's in the game. I think it is interesting. And then I went back and just ask EJ for danger garbage came through those really cool fake. So what you could see what we're talking about if you go on, here's where it gets crazy. But if you say, I don't like social needs. It's twenty nineteen I don't like talking on the phone. We totally get it. You can write to us directly. We are conspiracy at iheartradio dot com. Stuff. They don't want you to know is a production of iheartradio's, how stuff works for more podcasts from my heart radio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows the ever wondered how the smartest marketers cut through the noise, I'm Bob hitmen chairman and CEO of iheartmedia, and on my new show, math and magic. I'm sitting down with the day's most gifted disrupters. But when I did this people thought I was crazy there. Really? No other rules, aside from, you know, no full frontal nudity go out there and do it. I don't like to follow the trend of listen. It subscribed to math and magic on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Game Scoop Episode 521
"This week game scoop is sponsored by hymns. Games who what's up everybody? Welcome tiejian. Game sleep statement had filled joining this week is Sam clayborn everybody. Justin Davis N C J Gibson's up. And we've got a great show for you this week, we sound a little bit different. It's because we're in our new podcast recording studio. What's old is new again? The new studio is the old studio. We were in your time reported podcasting. Is that from Gallagher that audio back by the? Oh, so yes, so yeah. The people who've only been watching the show on YouTube may not even recognize that themes. That's the original games theme song that we've been used on the podcast for thirteen years. It's always been on audience. Always been you still put it in the audio solid still there we're sitting around around table here. So maybe our voices are gonna be reflecting differently. Who knows knows what's how it's going to end up. Yeah. Here is thank you service. That's once we stopped investing in video. We're able to table service. I think it's really. The good for the audience. Now, if we get a little during recording we can have drinks brought brought to us what what else should we get Dan to bring us. We'll figure. You could ask is that? Other thing that we do have here. And this is. Soundboard? Oh, yes. Soundboard and I'm going to try not to abuse it. I know it'd be super annoying. Oh, that was council Vania this. They're all Kathleen Sam. I. Boy, their voice this Castellini three in their voice samples to the last one again. It's time to say in high. That's how that's Hello infringed consigning, so good consigns monster. But this you that in Frankenstein's months donation this does open us up to playing a game. I've wanted to do for like a name that tune sort of game video game so good now the transitions between our topics can be a little game in and of themselves. Everytime. Tastic what what just settle down Sam? This is going to be fun. We've got a great show for this week. We're gonna talk about this is going to be a problem is the gotta be a problem. Random piecing, though. Now, look at me look at me. I'm the host sorry. Sam slam batch camera down. There's only one camera right there. Sam look anywhere, though. This is now they call the don't they call it a one camera comedy. Yeah. Something like that this Shakespeare. Area. Why didn't those hey, there's a new there's a new left-for-dead news and quotes there next week. A new console or platform is going to be revealed by Google talk about that. But first attention all game scoop listeners attending Pax east games. Give will be at taxis inefficient. I'll be there. Bryan, all tunnel. They're Justin's good. Boy, Seth Macy. Yep. We'll be there and Sydney Goodman, and we are doing a game scoop panel there. They'll be on Thursday, March twenty eighth twelve thirty pm good time in the afternoon. And then it'll be in the albatross. Feeder is twelve thirty eastern twelve thirty eastern. So nobody knows what time that is here in California. That's true. But if you're here in California, you don't need to worry about it, three hours, three hours difference. Yeah. Where in Greenwich Cal? You can't turn if that. I mean, Raleigh cat. Yes. Sam are you going to play who am I videogame here? We are going to play the game. Who am I was sitting here going to be? I haven't decided yet. Well, you can tell us because we're not gonna be there. I just haven't decided. End of the show. To build a she. To change spots. Osam Sam we'll have over there in the corner. Will remember that Tiki goes do? Okay. We did find out this morning. A new left for dead game. It's called back for blood. It's from turtle rock studios. Who you may remember as the developer of evolve or maybe not because that game didn't make much of an impression which has a foreign it. Yep. Just like left for dead. I see this is the team. This is the team that made Leifer did after I don't know if they like they weren't ever owned by valve were they were they were spun off, I think, no. Because then they make all belt as Warner Brothers. Yeah. So the deal their publishing deals with Warner Brothers. Now. I don't remember exactly what happened without. I may be wrong. They may one or two. Games. Still love today. I still played. Yeah. So played on on steam. But there's been so many Leifer data likes since then like evolved, for example involve what do people want these anymore? They're just want to go back and play left. I think they want a new left for dead. But that like coop campaign that four player like you can see like the DNA of that in like games like division destiny anthem. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Through some it's I mean, the lifespan for those is so tough on the population. Decreases overtime. And I mean, like Volve, you know, it was like it was good in principle. Doesn't didn't stick around? We. I mean in principle, we loved it and preview view. And then we gave it a glowing review. Young. Maybe it didn't have enough stuff to do. And then it kinda petered out. And then when it had more stuff to do it was like too late get the snowball effect if like it's online only, right. So it's like if people are playing it, then it can sort act like it the momentum going, but you can also it's really dangerous like he can. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The matchmaking for those all we got the answer. Well, the few more details the quote from the press release says it's designed from the ground up as an original premium title, so not free to play at least lag in the grass. Title or sixty dollars or. Yeah. I think so Mary's the best of what made the co-op zombie shooter. So successful with new features and state of the art technology. So like the big feature with left for day was the the AI director. Yeah, I was supposed to be directing your experience. They don't mention anything like that. Specifically about this new game one would expect to it'd be doing something like that high resolution graphics. Yeah. I like new features just as a bullet point technology. Well, yes. I'm sorry is the state of the art technology Sam that might be cardboard on your face true. That's to some company, and if they get back out four, Nintendo, that's true. Oh, it's just carpet on going to be. So it's not. No, no, no. It's just like it's fun to act like you're a bird Lavaux lab for dead. I'm just saying that's a and lab could also be a four. Yeah. That's true. Sorry, go. No Sam Sam you just anyways. It's looking at Sam exactly Curtis got Cy. I gotta stop. You're get someone Representative. From Warner Brothers says this is very much not left at three rather a new gaming universe where you'll be able to shoot up a lot of zombies like in left for dead. But there's a whole lot of new stuff in back for blood, which makes it unique. So we knew snooze Dombi new stuff new feature all really technology. He added. Yeah. Hi, rez Chris Ashton, designed director one of Twitter ox, co founder says we get to return to genre. That was born in our studio with over ten years of additional experience zombie ideas. Racked up in our brains. Yeah years. That's actually, I'm glad that turtle rock smart. Of Warner Brothers written like turtle rock is clearly deeply deeply talented team sometimes like evolved didn't work out. And then it's like, well, hold company is just business now. But glad someone recognized for the talent. They are you know, give them another shot. Yeah. And those games is a service to I mean, there is obviously longevity if they're done right if anything apex legends. It's weird to see that. Like, I don't know how these free to play games can survive in. The state if they're not good. Well, this doesn't sell them as a service yet. But that's my point. Yeah. Location. Exact so it is kind of like even the original left for dead's. We're kind of games a service in the in the idea that they're meant to be played over and over and over head of the curve now. A word. I wanted to wonder who's still there who's making this game because you have at. Yeah. You have like the name of the company then like you have Chris. And retro is not even close to being the same company as they were to get now. So please be excited. There's a metro coming out from them. But who knows what it's going to be like, I always wondered about that like ten years on our companies as they were ten years ago, or that's just like necks or in a couple of weeks at Pax gearbox is expected to reveal borderlands three people are just instantly excited for. But remember like who is left AB at gearbox that worked on Portland's to like hardly anyone game developers changed so much, and they move companies so much that I just wonder what is the what is the studio that outlasts, and like Nintendo is gonna make a great games for a long time. But there's very few examples that spent decades. Yeah. Anyway, I do think there is a lot of there's a certain amount of zombie fatigue. But left for dead is the one that I think people would be happy to return to yes. To a spiritual successor to left for dead makes less sense to return to fatigue zombies. I don't like the fast ones. Yeah. Slow zombies. We just did in resonable to they weren't that fast. I just said you returned to though now. Yeah. Yeah. That's just like that hungry. All right. Can you name this tune? This is your first the first round of can you name the soon what game is this from? Here's here's the it's the ending theme to a game like a cab. I'm going to presume Tyler. That's really nice cool watch that a lot because of this fake titles. We've talked about on here. Like the fake like Phillips Carl office. Yeah. James banana. Yeah. It's weird this way or your game Fishman banana is a very old Japanese family name. That. All right now emission next week. We are getting a very rare occurrence a new gaming platform is going to be going to be announced at GTC the game developers conference right held here in San Francisco. Google is going to be revealing its gaming platform, which everyone expects to be a streaming gaming service. If it's not an actual console. There's at least some sort of hardware involves some sort of control or that you use. They've done this before though in what well this has been like Android based platforms a lot and they get hype like Julia to. Yeah. This is a little different. Yeah. I mean, it's. Yeah. Because of that fake controller, well, they had such a success with a streaming assassin's creed odyssey, which was sort of like hiding in plain sight, right like testing, they're streaming tack. And they didn't really talk about how or why they were doing that. They're just moving players that was great artsy in your browser. But like secretly, that's like this is like, you know, this is them testing. They're like you can do it. You can play next gen games in your browser on any screen you want. You can stream it. I mean, that's crazy though. We were talking about last week. You're having a download issue with these online consoles on something. I wanted to bring up. Yeah. Like, I mean grade in San Francisco will exactly I'd like to. Yeah. Depending on your internet connection. Like, that's a I think the consuls entity both. I think it's gonna come in both flavors like they'll be version where it's a traditional game box. You know by and then I think they'll be a streaming version. Interesting game box. I didn't envision that. Like an actual you think that'd be a physical hardware. That's the name. Yeah. Game game. You know, they've been they've been hiring, you know, sort of not so secretly because you can't keep your job secret. Right. So they've been hiring more than just software people. They've been hiring hardware people interests. Or maybe that was all just for the controller. We don't really know. Jade, raymond. They hired house grazie. Yes. So the hiring game developers to so they're clearly even get help some first party support. In addition to I'm presuming based off that assessment screed tests that they have third some third party support as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's very exciting. But we do have an Email here from Amanda in Kentucky, something along the lines. The topic. You just brought up CJ. She says Hello game. Scoop crew. You guys are great. The show is so fun to listen to thanks for all the work that you do on a recent episode sim. You can't hit more than one at once too much. Amanda. Small. Not even boxing. All right. I just used it to play some very so good his tasteful music from castle Vania. I actually work till now I can't just hit a button. Amanda says on a recent episode San brought up the internet speeds in Kansas. If I remember correctly, he started downloading red debit option to and Kansas around Christmas. And it still isn't done. I'm not sure if this is a joke or an exaggeration. But it didn't feel like it to me. I live in Kentucky in a very rural town, we have the best internet. We can get an it is extremely slow have an Xbox One. I basically had to give up playing anything on it every game. I've downloaded and even the physical copies. I have need updates every time. I put them up these updates take at least a week to download well, that's not to mention the updates. The actual XBox needs to run and forget about playing games like call duty or destiny online recently. I started playing more on my switch as it doesn't seem to need updates as often. And even then the files aren't as large the downloads a relatively quicker love my switch. But since I own an Xbox One already. I feel robbed of the option to play the bigger newer games that aren't on switch. I have three questions for the mega cops questions. Three. I will ask of the I added that I how fast internet where you all live. I checked here here at home. We have Eighty-three down twenty six up. We've got really fast in the hill. Yeah. I mean, that's that's what I get at home. But that's only in certain why areas in the company like if you go into some of our dedicated stuff, it's you can tap into the hardline. Well, yeah, it's like two or three hundred Meg Dow I have one hundred done. Yeah. So we were talking to I think it was destined to certain areas that fiber here, and sonic is a is a provider here. There's like a thousand MAG down and like five hundred or something cruelty. We definitely take for granted. I realized last night that I was downloading division to my PS four pretty fast, like it's still took an hour, you know, but it's like sixty gigs. So it's going pretty fast. And we were streaming. Netflix twice. Oh, that's sounds like it's like damn like that's like a lot of internet happening. But I will say here's really expensive. And there's not a lot of like low end. But so is milk. I mean, I don't know. Used to comparison, and Kim milk isn't any better here? It's kind of all the same. So is by internet place. Not it's twenty five down ten up. Dan. It's slow. Exactly. It's an end will I ever usually get that not from six o'clock till nine six o'clock nine o'clock. It's always basically like what is your net? Flicks. Look like, well, so that's the other thing when you're streaming multiple things and doing games on how many times you get like an ipad going, and then you're going to Netflix Stevie going, then you're trying to play games. No, it doesn't work and in Canada. I will speak the Canadians eight Meg down and ten Meg up or like two or three Meg up, depending like there's different tiers of services. It's crazy expensive. It's almost like eighty or ninety bucks for that. And two hundred dollars. If you want to get anything above ten megs up house, the milk milk's good, Tim bags bags sets him in bags. Yeah. Absolutely. Is. So messed up. Vitam make the mill. Or put it in the bags. But that's what happened any more in in in the old days when the milk man would deliver milk. We just drop a bag on your front porch. Ask is like three you'd buy basically, like a pack of there'd be three or four in a pack. And they just said it used to dump it out, and they were so happy when they figured out the next. At a summer camp in America. I I've had back milk. But it was it was huge. And they put it in a dispenser. Yeah. And then it's like, it's like this bag of milk in the suspense. And then it has like a a little like Notre. Yup. And utter that, you know, that's part of it. And you like snip at an starts spewing out milk. But the only thing that holds it in a lever that has a weight on it. So like closes the utter it's the most cow alike, you can get milk out of like a robot cow accurate. How big are the milk bags there? Well, they're like one two years standard bags. Yes. A we don't mean a gallery. I said leader exactly I already knew or this is going it. Just keep going right now that is utterly ridiculous. Pushing number two. You can change it up. What do you think that would? Hurt. It's one of them on one of the boss. I didn't know there. So as voice acting castle three it's like actual like vocal Elizabethans voice. Samples in games is one of my favorite things do answer one question. Here's question. Number two short of moving to a more urban area. Is there anything I can do to get better? Download speeds, it's a it's a really bad problem in Kentucky. I know think Alaska has the worst internet in all the fifty states, but in the lower forty eight it's Kentucky, Montana and Arkansas, really. I mean, I think he's always satellite internet is super slow, but it surely must be faster then faster than like you. Just can't update your XBox and play games on. That's what I had in Kansas. And I couldn't I like, you know, the worst thing was is that I'd like wiped and XBox. So I needed to get everything on there that had ever been up, right and stuff and that never happened. Like I made the joke about red dead. But like, I couldn't even get the XBox to place with over seven days. I mean, you could drive like if you have friends or anyone your social circle that lives in like a bigger city. Dr. Over there. All your shit. Yeah. How wonderful live. I mean, a library won't let you just play anything there. But I bet they have good wifi. Yeah. Maybe we should start a business where they can. Yeah. They can ship us their XBox. We'll update in download games in a back. I mean, if like I said that half jokingly, but if it's just single player games, and you just need to download some eight gig update. You could truck your XBox somewhere to get that update and play like, obviously, you're never going to be playing destiny online states are big like, we're where she actually going to go. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. That's tough college campus. Always has. Yeah. Internet always. Maybe there's like a computer lab there that you could use. Now, it's weird. So do you guys? Remember previous generation, I actually was a big fan of XBox three sixty over PlayStation three for that reason. Like when I lived in Canada before I moved here. I don't know how many times I'd come up with a game. And it'd be dual platform lot of games. Playstation, three always had crazy updates that were super big and took the console longtime to download an XBox didn't have those things. I remember everybody complained about that all the time everybody complained about it always had to had to auto update when you started always. So you'd be sitting there waiting for about forty or fifty minutes before you started your game. I was a three sixty guy for that reason. Now, it's funny XBox now reversed it I next spots won. The u I is is a trough city and every time I log into play game on all right guys. I'll be there. And then the update happens, and I'm like. Your God everything that that is reversed that game developers and you're getting excited about right now with streaming and deal sea and everything it it's such a bad plan. Like, it's not gonna work for so many people. Well, yeah, I don't know what percentage one hundred million people. So her last question is is this a problem that exists in other countries worse than other countries? So as bad as it may seem in the US apparently number tenth in the world countries in like internet speed everything else is in Scandinavia about sexually like Korea has really really fast has the fastest internet and South Korea. We're a big entry. It's hard to get that. We are. We are pretty good size country. Be put number ten and then down on the way at the bottom lists, Paraguay and Venezuela who the slowest internet speeds any Canada rank on there. Do you have? I don't have it in front of me right now. You don't you don't have to try to make everything about Canada's? That's okay. I'm just we already talked about your milk bag now. But that was the best part, right? A lot of these countries. You know, India's they continue to have a growing middle class. They're gonna end up skipping, you know, traditional internet and wifi altogether. And they're just gonna use mobile. They're gonna use five G, right? Yeah. I was wondering about that. So I've I've run into that in in a jam where I've been to a hotel. You know, you're trying to log on the hotel WI fi isn't working where I've tethered my phone, and I have Verizon, and I think it's like, yeah, I'm probably ten Meg down. And I this destiny for like two or three hours, and it was flawless at a really really interesting vision is like the mobile hotspot as absolutely no the source of internet in each home. And that's actually not like it's not like that's farfetched how it's going to be out. So stick sticking on the topic of this new Google announced announcement that's happening next week. This is George from Lancashire UK. Hope I pronounced that correctly. I think you nailed it. He says mega cops longtime listener first time writer typing this on a rainy English day. Dreaming on my lunch break about getting home to Castellina symphony of the night. That's good daydream half. Nice. A friend, and I were discussing the state of play between the big three players, Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft when the thought occurred to me that the status of these three players has been more or less secure for almost two decades. This is stark contrast to the eighties and nineties Atari as the big player at the beginning. The eventual domination of Nintendo the rise and fall of Sega and the very Genesis of Sony in the hardware game a time when my Sega time when Microsoft was just a software developer since then sure we've seen trends like online gaming motion Israel's iterative consuls, but it's been the same three companies at the helm of console gaming. My question. The panel is can you see this changing anytime soon? We'll one of the tech giants like Amazon or Google step in or one of the other three bow out personally. I think the only challenge may come once streaming becomes more available and acceptable to consumers with an Amazon prime games. Like service, streaming games straight to our TV's loved to hear thoughts. It's a really interesting if you're younger gamer, you'd probably don't think it's. Just those three forever. Like when I was growing up reading, gay magazines. Like, it's the equivalent of like in two thousand eighteen it's like is L G in a release a video game console like companies would just come and go here these crazy phantom rumors about like, you know, some new company is going to release a game box. And like, that's what the XBox was a direct XBox from Microsoft, they're going to enter the base and same associate, even and, but but that's not been the case that is quote has been established for a long time as the fired Missy. As the questioner pointed out. What's weird even to have bowel out? Now. I mean exclusively and just you know, give their IP's away. Like, I don't know just getting into that. Like console space is just it's such a niche market. That's a silver tough do. Well, there was there were more players back in the day. When we read those old gems from the early nineties, they devote pages, they've devote magazine space to any see with a turbo graphics again in the game gear and the Atari Jaguar and the Philips CD I and all that stuff the the the three D O thirty. Oh, yeah. But with all the with all the failures in limited successes. It seems like kind of suicide attempt it in a way unless you're unless you're like, a massive company Obama's honor, Google or involved valve it apple did it. Yeah. Since those companies existed in steam is a major player, and yeah, it's just a different way of distributing that. I think everybody wants to do eventually, I'm a little more to work. I think I think Amazon and Google and apple are already companies that are in the video game space in a different way. So. Amazon owns twitch, and they actually do have their own apps store, and they have a hardware business. Right. So that you know, they make down Dole's and other high quality highway, and they just sell video games. So yeah, that's your you know, you would think apple could extend its like apps store games. Business down to a console box in some way. Or like, there's like natural extensions are ways that those companies could get into the hardware space in a way that like, you know, a different hardware companies. Like Samsung doesn't really have that same. Yeah. Same institutional knowledge. Yeah. I feel your apple TV was a little bit of that. They tried it. And it was kind of like it was their way to regulate. Ecosystem weird. I heard such strong rumors around that there was going to be an actual apple game controller like an adverse party apple made Apple-branded video game controller like they were going to do the whole Big Apple reveal of it. And then ever material has I remember hearing any of those, you know, those rumors like risking me wrong all the time or like, you know, I my personal theory is that their plans change at you know, fairly late. They decided not to go through with it after all. Yeah. I don't know. I'm very curious to see what Google is going to announce next week in television. No Tari coming out is also television and Atari another way to get into the console spaces using an old name. Yeah. Sega should come back. Yeah. I don't know last summer. They announced the Sega Genesis, mini and nothing ever came up that that was license law licensing it out. No, there's there is an art like an at games version of that. But I think this is one that Sega was supposed to make themselves. They're doing another one that's supposed to be better than that wouldn't be hard. Wow. Game tunes is game tunes. A good name for this. Yeah. Name name this game. That's all castle. I don't know. But I. Listen to all the stereo. It's an arcade game. Racing game not racing. Very Hurley game from the intendo something balloon fight a little bit. I guess this. Mario brothers. It is. Mario brothers the stage. One's really tomorrow. Never hear that. It's like a lot going on in their track. Wow. Yeah. I mean because I. There's like a rock and drum track in there too. That was cool. Let's share what we've been playing Sam you've been playing DMZ. Yeah. Devil may cry and Yoshi is crafts world. Yeah. With areas that are very similar game. Yeah. It's interesting Yoshi is taking some heat for censoring Yoshi. But what I know. Well, it just it works in Japan. But sometimes it just doesn't work here. Democrats inserts, it's and buts at least one, but I've explained the joke now, anyway, we'll definitely cry. I've I've really taken it. I liked playing all the games that we give a benign to right? So I tried kingdom hearts this year. Now, I'm trying to make right, and I looked up my cry. It's a Esme obnoxious moments. But it's mainly like an I've never I have played ETA. But I haven't played any my cries. I don't even know genre. Really encapsulates maybe like ninja gyn type games too. I don't know. I played that action games or action game, man. I don't like a lot of those. But this is more to me like God of war three or like. Yeah. I mean. I think there was always kind of a healthy competition between domain crime ninja Guidon like in those in those franchise, very different. But yeah, they're both really well, but it's got this like sheen of quality Abbott and like shines good the faces. Look, really good. And they look like I was telling Damon it, I really liked how resonable to look people in it and stuff this has the same like really high level of Capcom the character model. Yes. Yeah. That's awesome. Look like Sam saying, I think they're sharing some tech between those teams because the faces they they remind you of the faces in resin evil and the monsters look so good to that. I wanna see more as evil monsters, and at our at gray monsters, we had a live event here where they had one of their producers directors spoke, and it was really cool because they showed and this is in this special edition of the game. You can see this. But there's live action shots of all the cut scenes. So cool with like crazy amounts of like action sequences done with tiny figures, and like a little toy van stuff, and you can play the game with those like cool setup shots, and they're like one to one it's really it's really a clip of it on YouTube. Jan and watch it. Yeah. Yeah. If you have nothing to play and you wanna play like a good action game right now. I actually do like it. I didn't expect to the highest check that out and then Yoshi sometimes Yoshi games are a little too simple. Yeah. For me, at least, and it was funny because where I hopped in and you saw probably a lot of the time planning played for a couple of hours with Tom marks who's reviewing it. He was playing on our like a big office television. I hopped in did hop and co up I've been caught makes everything difficult. Yep. It did up the level of difficulty. Judy. Mario genus to. Yes. This away. I've never more strongly learned the lesson that gamers don't want. What they think they want until news. Mario brothers came out with the simultaneous co op which people have been asking for forever since the beginning of Mario games. Like, let us go through together. And you play it, you know, 'cause you gotta be so fun. And then it's like, ooh, this is your bubble. Twenty percent of the time. Just going to constantly getting each other's way. You're not like the star of the stage anymore, and it is. I mean, it's fun and eat the other person, and you cannot day cannot do anything of. Yup. They've it's fun from like a zany party multiplayer just like farting around way. But it's not like an actual enjoyable way. To play a progress. There's been very many fights in my house with playing that game. With all my children's like not not your. And now Yoshi, but like, yeah. Then mario's. But I still have a lot of fun with it, and Tom, and I got through a bunch of levels, and there's great puzzles to solve with the collectibles. And I think that's the depth in the game. And I did like it. But I think it will get old. But there is a lot to do in every level has its unique thing there's like you'll be like, you know, a level with a completely different set of puzzle solving. And then it'll never use it again. But it's really cool. I think you're explaining that's like a Mario loss of that sort of an intendo thing lately is like levels introduced idea. And then it sorta ratchets it up and complexity, and then you have to prove mastery of it to complete the level. And then discard said, I see you later, but this is a little fast. It's not like the witness where it's like, oh now this out and really know it and like an owned that that had the witness was so good at that. Yeah. It is good. At that. Wasn't as Sam wasn't as good as you. And I playing Chippendales. Well, it sounds similar. Yeah. I can just grief each other. Right. It's right. Well, I have no memory of that incident. All stop it. Did we play you did the review? It's when you're on the Disney. Disney classically. Yeah. We did. Those good kind of boring. It was it doesn't. I mean. It's still fun like nostalgia west. But duck tales ten. Wow. But you've been Dale. And you know, what there's no such thing as a perfect game except for ducktail bias. Just you're playing division two. Yeah. I've been bouncing around between a few. I'm in-between games right now. I finally finished that GOP I've been playing a trails in the sky. And there's a sequel, but the sequel picks up directly with the last one left off, and it's in the same world with the same characters like it's a direct continuation. So most people recommend that take a little breather between the two other. You're gonna get fatigued. So. Yeah. Testing out the division to. I think I've decided that Luder shooters aren't for me thing. Well, it's like the games getting all this praise. And like I understand the praise and like people that really live and breathe like I trust like Duggan's opinion, more than my own yet is someone that's just more of a casual like pickup play shooter guy. It just feels so odd to like get like, I got kneepads had like twenty more armor than eve has had on before. And like, I get it like I played world of warcraft. So I understand. Yeah. Cycle and the grinding like I don't wanna make it sound like I don't understand that yet. But it's just man that is not what I'm looking for in a shooter. Did you did you play the first division a little? Yeah. I mean, so there's there's this Doug. And I have this debate often about just the aesthetic value of it being a real life game. Where again, I was gonna say about destiny, but it's a difficult to engage in that. Because like, do you feel disconnected because you're shooting real people vs aliens and monsters and all the rest of that stuff? I it's a little bit like within I play the game two hours. So I only level for so I'm like a newbie in. I've probably murdered. One hundred people. Yeah. No remorse. And so it's like that parcel parts. Maybe it's sort of odd and the distinction between like these are the good guys civilians, you have to protect and defend and these scavengers of the bad guys, then like the civilians also go out and scavenge, you're discovering loot, right? And it's like if this game were like one touch more realistic. It would try to paint more shades of gray around like everyone's just kind of trying to survive in this world, but it's more video gaming than that. It's like defend these guys fight these bad guys. Yeah. But I don't know. I mean, you gotta let go of that part of it. And just be like my base of operations is the White House, and I'm recruiting new people to help me craft new guns, and they're all like, oh, I live in the White House now, and it's just it's just a video game he game. So it's interesting to hear you say that because I I have that same issue with division as well too. I'm not really big third person cover sheer guy either. Like, I like first person shooters better. But I think yeah, there's just something about the taking a whole clip of ammo and firing human enemies that's down. That's what I wanted to say this over that does fix that the normal enemies, they less spongy. And then the spongy enemies are covered an armored that the new chip off them. Yeah. And so it's better that was unrealistic in the sense that like why do I have to shoot? This piece of armor ten times. We ought to just bounce off his shoulder. But at least you're getting some visual feedback, and there's some sort of in game reason for why put it as well done game. Like, that's the thing that the people that I know are planning actually really like it. Yeah. That's I I just like it's interesting coming at that game from the perspective of someone that doesn't plays Luke play luta shooters. But I do like regular shooters. Right. It's like just the the level of depth of like, I have this gun. Now, I can mod that gyn, and I can upgrade mod, and then changes characteristics is veve very Imamoli and foreign. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta be signed up for the long term. Yep. Yeah. It's not like jump in jump out. It'll be interesting to see how the does anthem landed. Kind of softly people are the they love apex. Legends people still playing destiny to. Yes. Yeah. So those are still playing for today. People me those are the those were basically what I was gonna say. I think I predict I'll put ten hours into it in his division. Yeah. See, and that's the thing. Like death reason why like apex legend so much aids free. We got to say that and be just the fact that you can jump in and jump out and not be dedicated to feeling the need to grind to progress in the game. I think they hit that loop better than like four nine pudgy and all of us those games, very good games. But they have like a skill ceiling that like if you don't like building in fort night, you are going to suck at the game period. And for that reason a lot of people don't like it four doesn't have that or apex. Apex? Doesn't have that. Yeah. It's just jump into first person shooters, you know, play game die respond is that we've been playing along with destiny. Yeah. So definitely had a new release content this week called seasons. Drifter, and there's a bunch of exclusive things are not exclusive. But that we're in destiny one thorn much new weapons. So if you're in a style GIC for destiny stuff. Yeah. Like seeing this season a drifter has some cool stuff. And. Yeah, apex. Just honestly been playing in the evenings. Or? Doing a bunch of let's plays here. The game is still super-popular. When you see a bunch of people in the office still playing it in the lunchroom and everybody just playing it in the evenings and weekends. Yeah. Like, it's I've not seen that kind of level of dedication to those kind of games since overwatch. Actually, I mean, it came out that not that it was some big secret to begin with. But some of the biggest dreamers like ninja that have been sponsored to play, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars that few days. I don't know if the million is just a rumor, if that's been confirmed fact. Yeah, I heard regard big influencers well based on much we got paid to play. You can just scale. That's joke. Everybody that's where are the real ethics problems. Yeah. So right there. But this is the thing about supply and demand, right? Like ninjas audience is huge and he's big four night guy. So, you know, whether or not that's legitimate point. I was building two is that you know, that paid off right? Like oh game is in sustained second place fifty million. Like, they have fifty million users this way again that is a. I mean, that's kind of like conspiracy theory about why it's popular. Well, the, but it's so repeatable, oh, Adelaide wide, isn't that just happen every single week. What do you mean to just pay a bunch of influencers to make a game? Well, the game needs to be good. We they don't have to any more now. But now that does now that fifty million players. Yeah. So they're good. But but if I'm just saying people are watching this. Yeah. No. I mean here here's what I say anthem anthem's, you know, Anthony, but it's got like a lot of problems like lot of people liked it. But they could have just followed that exact same strategy. But that so so no, but like apex? No. Yeah. That's what I mean. Anthems not free. But that's the thing with apex. It's like limited launch window and then just be free right off the bat. Like respond is an amazing publisher. They have history like in modern warfare one to tighten fall. Those are really good games. Now, a lot of students are going to be able to do like that polish level game on release. Like defected a dozen have any glitches like I mean, I like destiny, but even that game a lot issues off launch. They did it. Exactly. Right. Like that. Like a splash. When the game launched and then the game has to be good enough to sustain interest. And they just completely got it. Right. Yeah. Exactly. 'cause I Mike what is that? Is that your we're going to see that happen? A lot more a what that's just going to be a strategy. Oh, yeah. Releasing. But again the game not only needs to be done. Well, but it needs to launch. Well, like you have a window for launch. If the game. I don't mean sucks is on the same way we analyze the console's launch. And like now, we're going to have to analyze these kind of free game launches. Absolutely. And and that's set the bar like not only is the game. Really good it launched really smoothly and a lot of developers. I don't think all right now launching games in that state where they should be launching in. They do I do want to say, by the way that all those streams were labeled sponsored required. Yes. By law. They all there's no indication that anybody was trying to obvious skate that. Yeah. No. Me. I'm also in between games. I tried jumping into metro exodus. I thought it was very slow. So it didn't really grab me right away. But I might give that another shot. So I spent all week playing a lot of retro games that we don't have to spend a lot of time on. But on ESPN is playing games like shatter hand. Which is really really good. Nice gargoyles quest to little nemo, the dream master super Nintendo's playing demon's crest, which is awesome. Chris super ghouls and ghosts and Blackthorn which I hadn't played since it was originally released. It's a blizzard game. It's like so cool. It's got such atmosphere. And then the very first thing you see is a blizzard logo that pops up there. It's really really cool. It's like a better out of this world or flashback. It is what a cinematic platform that really a term totally locked. Yeah. I also wanna give a shout out to dragon quest builders, which you know, picking up on playing on my switch finally game is great so weird deep cut. But it's been like a game came out two or three years ago. And Ooh, I really wanna play finally found an open window to give it a shot. Nice. All right. When when you hit start on this game you hear this. What game is ideas? Gradient is. Exactly, right. Well, that's why they call him. Sam gradients sman clayborn. You'll get a few other nickname music starting after that up. That was one of the first games rent. All right. We've reached the point in the show when I deliver a sponsored message. So no goofball and around right now, gentlemen, this serious part of the show this week games scuba sponsored by hymns were you aware that sixty six percent of men lose their hair by thirty five fun facts. That's the same percentage of men who are being heckled by children on fortnight right now. Probably that's that's so many. It's too many. None of us deserve that. But good news hymns is here to help with their loss. Not for night. Thanks to science baldness can be optional hymns connects you with real doctors and medical great solutions to treat hair loss with no waiting rooms in no awkward in-person office visits. Forums dot com. Nokia up with well-known generic equivalents to name brand prescriptions to help you. Keep your hair right now. Listeners can get a trial month of hymns for just five dollars while supplies last. Restrictions apply. See website for full details. A pharmacy would charge you hundreds for that. But we've got the hookup for you. Because we like you go to four hymns dot com slash game. Scoop to get a trial month of hymns for five dollars. That's F O R H. MS dot com slash game. Scoop for hymns dot com slash game. Scoop moving on this is our friend. Whereas. Chris from draw hoping for big Tony style. Okay. This is Chris and Toronto. Which may you know, am I know small small world says I love you. And you talk about vintage games, I'm forty so. I remember many of them I especially love when you get into detail about some weird gimmick or experimental mechanic that a game to chance on for better or worse. I was recently playing a tales of the Arabian nights pinball table at a local arcade Bicol that toe tan business, you're in Toronto. Shout out to tilt Totani. The skill scoop crews ever in Toronto on bringing their for around and that table has a big plastic genie lamp in the middle of it that spins around with ball hits it several times while playing in also while watching others play the ball got stuck on the lamp the only way to free. It is the Tilton machine in your turn. I think this is a bug. Definitely not a feature. Sam have you played any pinball table or other games with strange gimmicks that actually sucked and made the game less fun or outright broken. Yeah. That game is just out of it's out of wack. So that rotator it's supposed to have enough. You know, the ball is supposed to be able to overcome it. It's like basically a disk like a CD sized. Disc, and then as to pigs on it. So the ball can hit the pigs and sin the whole to spend like credits lights up these these lights, and it gives you lightning bolt a certain score. But when that spinner when the ball rests on it, and and and just plain place, the gravity should pull the ball and pass pushes a bag down. And so the Balkans role passed it that one is clearly just like crammed with grime and dirt and just needs to be taken apart and clean to put back together. That's thing. That's the pinball tables is like they have these really cool elaborate one off toys, and then they're also the very first part to get broken. Yeah. I it's it's all about it's balancing like, you know, how much time do you have to operate this machine and work on it and make it work, right? Then the really cool stuff should work. Well, and it usually works great. But currently games are coming out to his question where people put out something and it just never works. And they have to issue a complete recall or replace apart entirely. That happens all the time. What year is Totani from ninety one. Oh, no, no. It's late ninety s so it'd be ninety five or six late much more recent than I was expecting. It's it's one of the last Bally's what Nate scoop. Tune name this game. California games. Oh, good. So good Goethe's points. You know, the the version. Genesis the Sega master, right? Yes. I can tell the Sint. Tune was not SNES very Sega sounding pirate the song. I wanted to ask. So whatever you this was eighty seven or eighty eight. Did they license Louis Louise chant was that epic epic right? Epics right. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know who handled the Sega master system towards that's pretty good. I looked it up. It's Williams not Bali. But they're the same company at the time mid-nineties. Oh, I think you're probably right. Yes. I should've known that. You could. Yes. Out so good. This is C J. Have you know, what sport it was where that led I dunno screen tests? Now's the opening titles. It's not competitive foot bag when California was just this mythical land. It was the mythical land for me you can hit the Siegel with your it was right in that time. So diehard is what eighty seven or eighty eight. Yeah. Yeah. He says multiple times in the in the beginning of the movies, like California. Yeah. The movie the wizard they just make them different out here and that wizard like a little kid wants to go to California, just repeats, California. That's completely true to obviously a few years later. But yes, like am. Yeah. Man. I always wanted to live in California. Yeah. I always wanted to live in San Francisco. And so, and so I actually like really attached to that. When I was absolutely. Yeah. Imprinted on a lot of people. I played that guy didn't tons of time. The BMX the flying disc roller skating, I could hit the Siegel often do the goofy foot. I could get a perfection on that. I play frequently. I played it recently. Yeah. It's really really funny. Yeah. And there's the the roller skating part. Yes. Specially grips because that girl face plant Larry lake it's like like Herat. Face of plants over and over and enter ponytail time only get free. Yeah. It's crazy. Like, I in the thing is it could be a tiny little crack in the sidewalk like that. You'd like she would have skated over that. But she just like. The bike is the same way that acts like it's just it's just deadly deadly being. Anyway, this is CJ Nebraska Dera mega cops the Nebraska clone. I recently started listening to a number of different symphonic performances of video game themes as I was listening to them. It got me thinking that all the really memorable deems from older games. I do not think I could even begin to identify the music from assassin's creed odyssey or the Witcher three even though I put over seventy hours and each with the exception of persona five. I do not think I've heard any truly memorable music in a game for quite some time. And got me wondering if music has become less important to game designers, if it's because open world games just latte. Great music. It's hard to fill that many hours of running around with memorable themes or if I've just simply missed the game with great music. Also, some connected I'd love to hear what your favorite video game theme is minus cliche. But Eric's theme from fun of Hassi seven always hits me hard. Good one. Yeah. Right here. Beautiful next is. Brings a tear to the eye. I would say sky room, an amazing skyrocketed recently, or at least the title track that is it. Is it ten years old? I was gonna say what's recent? Eight years old now for me for my money. I think final fantasy fifteen has criminally underrated Pac man that is that is hands down the best. It's it's an incredible fifteen. Yeah. Well, it's funny because it just has music from all the fun of Venice fifteen. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. It's got the car radio. But I mean, it's got its own original score. And I wish I could name drop her the the woman that composed. The soundtrack is just he's been doing it since the earliest we'll so so to me it's like that almost doesn't count then in a way, right? Like in whether it's a new thing. It's not like they're like remixing. Yeah. Houston stuff. But I just I it's incredible. And like that game itself has such a mixed of you know, that, unfortunately, I think the music if that were in a better game than it would be heralded as one of the greatest of all time, I think yeah, it's true. That a lot of the most memorable video games are from retro games. Classic games. Yeah. And I I do think that a big reason why so. Much that video game music stuck with this. Because frankly, you hear it so often, right? You just hear it over and over and over and over and over again with loops like thirty seconds or a minute or thirty. It doesn't get much longer than that. And got loops. And so you hear the it's just like hearing a core. Zelda overruled theme. Played the one on the ES. Yeah. You heard it loop ten thousand time. Yeah. And then you've been hearing it the whole rest of your life at one other tune, exactly. But even Mario. Yeah. There's only three more. Mega man was super exciting and mega man had like. Song citing about mega man or custody at the time. There was a lot of music in it. What I love about particularly in intendo. I think a strong at this is you know, reconceptualized and reintroducing that music, and, you know, orchestrating it in in, you know, they're more sophisticated contemporary games. But even in a game like breath of the wild. Then they start to have fun with it where I got very very restrained with their use of the overruled theme, but it is in there. Yeah. And you see it sort of coming in and out weaving. And now as you're on horseback, if I recall correctly, and like that's interesting like that that hits you in like this nostalgic. But but it's also knew right? And so it carries this old old nostalgic value, but it's also being presented to you in a new way and composers are getting really good about like, well, pure and the over world, let's just play the over world theme. But instead bringing it back in ways that are really impactful in artistic I think. Yeah. Nebraskan CJ has a really good point about open world games where it's like what when you're just running around ancient Greece just like randomly hunting animals what pluck the harp a few times. That's what I'm gonna say. You mentioned the overruled theme to legends Zelda in breadth of the wild because it's much more of an open world game. They just basically pull the music way back in the us is very little subtle, dislike piano, chords jazzy, and it's awesome. Yeah. It's like, well, it's also you just heard like an overall theme constantly playing while you're trying to explore the world and breath the wild. Yeah. It. Yeah. Breath of the wild in the case of that game in particular. They're trying to give you this connection with nature. So it's artistic choice to pull the music way back, but you know, it's in an open world game. Everyone's running off north south east and west you don't know what they do. And what direction they're gonna? Come at something. So it's like, yeah. I would say like the uncharted soundtrack is very mental. Yes. That's because it's retrial than they know when and where the player is going to be doing what most modern want people like a lot. I love is persona five that has like a really really really instrumentation and some rock and snuff. And all the atlas games tend to to really pull out all the stops for their their soundtrack being the halo soundtrack for me. Obviously. I mean, it's we're going back a little bit. But I mean, it's still kind of within that I would say later ration- like not rhetoric if you went back to halo from now the same gap in time that you'd go back from now to halo. If you went back and was actually eighteen ninety nine. So think about that guy. Yeah. It's big gap. Yeah. Again, my favorite video game music of all time is probably shadow gate on the S. And if you want to feel sold the very first halo came out thirty five years ago. Started to believe. Yeah. Yeah. So thirty years before that the wild west. Yeah. They're wild. That was when saloons the. Last woolly mammoth was still walking there. There's willing math nears this this now do that. This is the constant resurrection. They woke up cells from a an twenty eight thousand year old William walls. They could go wrong time. What's up, they find that meet all the time like found a well preserved one, and they inserted the cells into like a mouse like like over he sells. Ozzie saw they saw biologic biological activity in there, and they got to the point where the cells would like almost divide. They're not dividing. They're not growing again. But isn't that crazy? There's any sort of activity in the. Like like, there's no good answer to. Why like why are we doing this like because because they say in cool, and we think it's too right or wrong that we we might have had some some well, some 'cause I they they said the article that I read said it doesn't mean that they're going to be able to bring back, ma'am. But it will let them study more about Willie mammoths and how they lived back then. So I think that's awesome. And that mouse is giving me really weird. Yeah. We're mouth. We're mouse. We need more of those mouses a good name for a band or something. It's pretty good as you say your favorite contemporary game soundtrack. I didn't say emperor SF shadow gates. Oh, shadow get. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Do you guys didn't share your favorite? Yeah. I mean, I think we talked about in spot. Yeah. Oh transit. What what's happening in brings us to via game. One question. This is the theme. The California games are small this week comes from west in Atlanta. Yeah. That's more, Richard. Barry originally Louis than it is the Kingsman. Yeah. It's pretty solid. I sit on Sam. Yeah. David let the questioning million. I think we're done. It was great. Does this game have multi player? No. Is this game after nine hundred ninety? Yes. This game. Come in cartridge form. No is this game after two thousand. Yes. Is this Nintendo franchise? Yes. There you go. It makes it so easy. It's fine. I just sweat shoot. From the hip Heidi. Exactly. Because every time. I don't the comments. Let me know. I. Yes. This after two thousand yes. Yeah. And an antenna franchise. It does the man hundred go that far yet. This is game have sepals. It's an M. This game. This is good. I liked the hesitation Erie. Go I see on this game. Does not have a sequel. Okay. Kit. Chris nauseam. It would most people commonly refer to this game is a spin off. Yes, you're thinking of something right off the bat. I just we just had links crossbow training. Yeah. I'm thinking something along. I don't have a specific aim in mind. Some Nintendo a spin. I wanna I just want clarify. I don't think people who use the term spinoff describe this game. But like it's not like a main line. Yeah. Is this a in the Mario universe? No. Didn't mission though. That is good. I was thinking Super Mario run there or golf gamers. Yeah. That eliminates all the sports games. Who I may have. I may have messed myself up with the Mario universe about the spin. Or because I don't actually know we can strike it from the record. It's fine striking now in from the record. Right. It's not a numbered in three in a cat. All right. We don't know system yet right now. Could be fire emblem mobile. Yeah. It could be you know, anything from the well. I don't know. I don't know if what Nintendo university would be from. But I feel like I'm getting a lot after two thousand could we ask your disk based? No, did you say cartridge? It is Karcher. No, no. It's not. It's not cartridge and just ask. If it's in the Zelda universe is Zelda universe. No same question metro. Yes. Okay. Ed, but not as it has like legit spinoffs. And it has weird on number games. Like the DS won't. But my question was about multi-player. So it's not federation for us. Yeah. But it could be the DS ones. Is this a pinball game? No, no. No. No. I mean, that's ten. Oh, why was that? Okay. We know. It's a metric game guys. This is your ten question warning. Is this on the DS? No. What wait guys there's not that many metro? Yes, it's not metro prime pinball. It's not not trade federation for that's the cartridge based. So it's probably other m. Oh, right. Yeah. It's on a disk. Yeah. I it's under team ninja game. Yeah. It was was this a team ninja game. Yes. It's a metro the rabbit is metro. Other. Yeah. Nice. Oh. Yeah. I see done well done. Oh, yeah. So I I wanted to say off, but it actually does take place after super metric or something. Like that talking about the baby AB doesn't really matter yet. Like, I'm a gigantic metro fan like who cares? Okay. I mean, so so it's weird. I did not get all the way through that game. Did you like it? No. Well, most people do not. I hope you guys asked if this was well received because it got it got good reviews. Like, I said, no one likes it today. I shouted. No. And then kind of had instantly walk it back. Yeah. Because there was to mixed reception for the character. It's not that it's not a bad game. But it's just like come like, I just like, I don't understand Nintendo, which is a company generally pretty good at like delivering like, the everyone, shouted and cheered. When like the links awakening rename remake was announced in late. You're making all these amazing decisions. It's like it's not that hard to make metro great. Yeah. But then they tried to make it a little bit ninja gun lake, right? Yeah. And it's big departure for the for the character like everybody. I think wanted you know, the more. All this is like a top ten video game bat Asif time is that it does mess that up a little bit does. But even if you take that out and just try to say is this a a cool. It's a fun somewhat two point five d met. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was well done. It's a fun cool video game. It's probably a little bit maligned. Although I don't know a one thing I liked about. It was collecting entrepreneur everything like it was fine. Yeah. The things were hidden and really cool. So the one thing you liked about it was playing the entire thing. Oh, gotcha. So I I actually thought like, you know, if if you wouldn't normally go back in and get all that stuff. Yeah. That was the best part about it. The secrets in that game. Are really good. Yeah. The other world. Yeah. I think we gave that as I Dave an eight something can I looked around a lot of a lot of the other of us were similarly highest. I'd like to revisit it Sudas. Like, yeah. Before we go. I forgot one music Hugh that I had loaded up here. That's so good who can name this one. This is a great one end on. Oh. Soviet? South good. Give us a hand. Crazy instrumentation. Give us a hits any s port of a PC game. It is made mention. That's so good. Yeah. See they're trying to do a PC sound. Yes. Exactly stope. Yeah. It's great. The really really good one is the title of music. Yeah. That's scream you. It sounds like a Commodore sixty four game. Yeah. Not s I thought it was that it was a combat me too. That's really I'm really impressed with that. Like if like marshmallow or someone would have come up with come out with this today like it would be a jail. Yeah. That has all the schools. So we have this week Rabin goes reach us at the mail address. Game scoop at I dot com. Thank you Sam. Thank you. Thank you C J. Thanks, man. My name is Damon this era.
Can We Talk About The Sex Robots?
"Picker knows HR teams are under pressure to recruit and retain top talent, you need more than HR tech. You need expertise at the core. Meet pay corps. Our technology saves. You time our expertise helps you make a difference. Pay corps dot com slash meet pay corps. Hi, it's Jamie, progressive's employee of the month two months in a row. Leave a message at the hi, Jamie. It's me, Jamie. I just had a new idea for our song about the name your price tool. So when it's like tell us what you want to pay. Hey trombone goes, blah, blah, blah. And you say we'll help you find coverage options to fit your budget. Then we just all do finger snaps while a choir goes, savings coming at ya. Savings coming at ya. Yes. No. Maybe. Anyway, see you practice tonight. I got new lyrics for the rap break. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Thinking atheist. It's not a person symbol and idea. Population of this country is going through the rule checking faith Philly knowledge, challenging the sacred tell the truth. It's because I tell the truth because I put my hand on a book and made a wish and working together for more Russian all world, take the risk of thinking feel so much happiness confusion, wisdom, we'll come to you that way. Soom nothing question everything and start thinking this is the thinking Apias fogcast hosted by Andrews. I have decided in my own life that few things are as terrifying in a courtroom as eyewitness testimony. Now, we've done shows about perception and memories, and how often people say, well, I know because I saw it and how this is not a guarantee of reliability. Well, our sponsor this week. The great courses plus has a lecture specifically about this about knowledge derived from testimony it's taught by Dr Joseph Schreiber, it lays out just how perilous truth from testimony really is the lecture series is called theories of knowledge. How to think about what you know? It's just one of thousands of great lectures at the great courses plus on a ton of subjects ranging from human behavior to dog training to self defense to how to write everything from nonfiction to science fiction taught by experts in their fields and streaming right into your life in video or podcast format. Anywhere on your schedule. I've learned so much via the great courses. Plus, and I know that you will too. When is one of my listeners, you can try it for free with unlimited access to learn about anything. So start your free trial. Now, go to the great courses plus dot com slash Seth. Remember, the great courses plus dot com slash Seth. He had thought about her all day. And the sultry summer missed could feel his own temperature rise. Just a few eternal hours and air, customized fully posible body. Would again be his. From day one from her Genesis he'd been there shaping her into his object of ultimate desire. Yeah. He had had the option to make her a movie star or celebrity and for just a heartbeat. He imagined coming home into the eager arms and legs of a Megan FOX or Margot Robbie for Charlene's there. But even they wouldn't have compared to the exaggerations of fantasy that he had in his mind for his alternate woman for his by onic. Bam. Bam. When he finally slid into the door of his uptown apartment. She was already. They're all ten thousand dollars worth of her all six foot five of her with manufactured legs so long they doubled as a closed line. The it made her himself he called her. But nessa. Nessa had waded the entire day. Just for him just where he'd placed on the sofa only nine hours before she was wearing his morning bathrobe, the silicone forty two double DS protruding out into the hot night air, the custom selected five centimeter punished Brown number nine eight five five three eight areolas teasing him from just beneath the white set in the mist from the morning shower head long ago dried on her than he realized he'd forgotten to condition. Her skin for rain spots. Still he could almost hear her circuits buzzing with anticipation her Hazel green is barking with motion sensor recognition that was elastic. Limbs just beginning to bounce seven down excitedly like big brought were sausages in a bulb. The nessa was wearing face number seven today. But tonight, he was more in the mood for a number five. It's a good thing that he ordered the full dozen with of course, the accompanying wigs. He looked at Vanessa with such longing such primal desire and he whispered to her don't get up. Although he realized this really wasn't an option. The lights dimmed as he rolled the switch counterclockwise Vanessa's perfectly molded and assembled body seemed ready to break the seams literally and the fragrance of the silicone sealer filled. His nostrils like incense. Her is never closed, but that was okay. More time for her to gaze upon him with unfettered on interrupted unflinching at arranged. Her velvety preprogramed voice begged for him to come closer closer, she'd been waiting there for him for so long, and she just couldn't wait any longer. It's like she'd been sitting there alone per sexual Thurston quenched for the whole ten years of her estimated shelf life. He was already undressing as he retrieved Vanessa's number five face from her dedicated walk in closet, which also doubled as a machine shop. And as he rounded the corner to walk back through the kitchen. He retrieved her Jonah from the top shelf of the dishwasher. And if you think I'm gonna continue this little story to the actual robot sex. I am happy to disappoint. You. But I did find myself sort of smiling as I wrote this little introduction because it seems so surreal, and of course, I just thought it was funny. It did conjure a visual in your mind. You had mental pictures. Yeah. I know I know. So we are thinkers, right? I mean, we're not necessarily great thinkers, but we are pledged to pursue the challenges and opportunities before us by consideration and reasoning and thinking things through and so we're in this strange new world the world of the sex robots something that is fabricated to someone's sexual ideal. Certainly with exaggerated features appendages, whatever what is this about us is it simply an extension of what human beings have always been doing. I mean, sex toys are nothing new. Of course, the human condition is no stranger to using a coutry mints to enhance or provide at least the sexual experience. You see that article in the register about the German science team they discovered a twenty eight thousand year old sculpted painless. They were excavating in the an I shit, you not whole Fels cave, and they extracted this member this twenty centimeter sculpture, which the science team said was quote, highly polished, it's going to leave that out there. Okay. But it's apparent that this dildo. This silt stone dildo was used for some sort of sexual play or pleasure twenty eight thousand years ago, and you know, that as the human condition is at least one hundred thousand years old, you know, that as long as we have had creativity and sexuality that people have been doing all kinds of things at all kinds of ways. Well, flash forward through the innovation and technology of the modern day. Actually, this story is about seven or eight years old. But it just in the last few days made another resurgence. And so I'm talking about it because it's relevant because I've seen it. Shared so many times in China. A medical equipment company called San way developed the semen collection machine. Now, I guess this could be used as a sex toy. I mean, that's really what it's designed to do. It's designed to simulate the feeling of sex. Let me try to describe without being too graphic. Okay. This thing's a kiosk. It's like a kiosk that you would see at a retail outlet. It is white. It has a little control panel on top and then at penis level. And this is a justifiable for the varying heights of peanut I in the wild. You have a pink cylinder. And inside the cylinder is what is being referred to as a simulated the Jainal environment. There was an article in men's health about this titled we need to talk about that haunting blowjob machine viral video. Honestly, I looked at it. And all I see is the Sarlak from return of the jet. I you know, the sand monster with the teeth. Oh, but it talks about this thing, and you can go Google search and see it for yourself. The sperm collector can simulate the Jainal environment and through massage twitching sucking by brazen it cetera act upon the human penis, which can make semen collection fast and safe. There's a Twitter thread about this story that includes a link to an online store called Alibaba where the s w with thirty seven oh, one trolley type sperm collector manufactured by San way, can be purchased for between five and six thousand dollars. And of course, my own. There are some who are legitimately speaking about the medical utility of such a device. The rest of us are thinking how long before people have a member sucking blowjob kiosk in their basements. I'm just saying. By the way, it comes with an eighteen month warranty, eighteen months in case it malfunctions. Oh my God. Do we want this machine if it would ever malfunction? It's just terrifying. What if it's purposeful? What if some rogue programmer it's on way? All of a sudden, it's like, you know, there aren't nearly enough eunuchs in the world. Oh. There was an article that came out last November at Rolling Stone. I think I saw some variations of this story and other publications talking about the rise of the sex Bader. Sex doll brothel is it the wave of the future rolling? Stone was profiling this Canada sex doll brothel called ARA patrons pay one hundred twenty bucks an hour and they walked down this one way hallway to their assigned room, and apparently the actual bedrooms or hotel rooms or brothel rooms have a second door that leads to the exit. That's also one way this prevents people from ever seeing another human being, right? So you walk down this one way hallway, and there's a dull your dole the one you've chosen waiting for you during your session. Apparently, you can watch porn take a shower. You can do whatever you one with the doll provided. You don't damage it or quote, make any extra holes. Water based lubricant is provided condoms are provided and they are encouraged in ten minutes before your sessions over there's an intercom in the room. And it gives you a warning. Hey, it's time to finish up. Because if you go overtime if you go past the one hour, Mark it's another ninety bucks for the next half hour, and then comes the cleanup. I'm gonna just read this verbatim from Rolling Stone. It says una busy day employees at ARA dolls may have only one frenzied our to clean and prep. The doll for her next session. I the doll is placed underneath a shower and washed with soap in warm water. Then it's orifices are blasted with a pressure cleaner filled with special disinfectant and penetrated with a UB see germ killing lamp that's shaped like a dildo. Then the doll rushed back into the room to be dressed have her hair. Hair done and get any makeup touch-ups that might be needed before the next customer shows up when ARA dolls opened the first time it already had two hundred reservations on the books. The majority, of course, were men but about thirty percent were from couples or women alone later on in the show. I'm gonna talk to Dr Marty Klein knocked declines, a licensed marriage and family therapist. He's a certified sex therapist. And he has been for over thirty five years. He's an author. He's been featured in everything from the New York Times to psychology today spoken all over the world. I had him on the broadcast, I guess four or five years ago. And I wanted to have him back to talk about this subject of the sex robot. So we're going to hear from an actual marriage family and sex therapist about the locations of having sex with machines that looked like people that's going to be a fascinating exchange coming up later on. And the show. I've got Kristen on the switchboard. Kristen you're on the thinking atheist podcast. We're talking about the rise of the sex robots. You know, this whole strange new world we live in. What are your thoughts on the whole thing Christian? What do you think I don't see difference between sex robots and other sex toys? I don't get it. Why people are upset? I mean, I've heard about the stock from its extra bucks when they had to shut it down because they all get Bokan and to a parent them. I don't know what the guys are doing to them. But I mean, if I think it's just because they're Bramante. So it disturbs casino. Looks like us. Nobody gets upset if people break their flashlights or don't those and just a sex role by just add a lot more plastic and lights service, but your flashlight isn't like calling you by name. I mean, I think they are I guess, but but it's still not function. And none of them are. So I mean, if the shape of the robot would be something else like basically for me, it is a flashlight with at a plastic. So if the add ons with look like a couch. No one's getting upset. Where are you from Christon? May I ask? So what are the attitudes about sex in Sweden because I know we have a long way to go in the United States. I myself came out of this fundamental is background where you know, when people said the word sex. It was whispered under their breath sexuality was sort of this dirty nasty thing that you should only do with the person that you're going to marry for the rest of your life that kind of thing what are the attitudes for your on issues? Like, these not the attitude internally cannot don't get married. Even now that common I'm not saying we all have sex with everybody anytime anywhere, but we do all of us get sex Ed in school, which is actual sex. Ed, we have we health care for everybody under twenty one. I think gynecologists stuff like that is free and condoms and stuff like that to birth control is really cheap. So. Yeah. Affects it's fun. Think that Mike one of the questions about six Toya's is the violence, and is it can be a substitute for. I don't know. Psychopaths some soup pats pedophile. I mean, his could help or a Christian. Thanks so much for your input. Thanks for being a part of the conversation and take care. Yeah. You too have fun. Got Justin on the switchboard. Justin. You're on the thinking atheist podcast has it going get that? Thanks for talking to me. What's your take on all the stuff we've been talking about here? Well, it's kind of crazy. I I read the article that you posted and I'm actually a middle school teacher. And so I see a lot of young people connecting more and more to the digital world. And they become more obsessed with their digital profile the games they play and how they interact with people. You know, they don't they won't even talk to each other. They prefer those media texting and stuff like that. So I feel like this is kind of the ultimate in technological advances. That actually eliminate the need for human contact. And I find that to be, you know, an unsettling thing. I understand why they were invented. But I feel like it's not a safe thing in the long run. So you feel that it will prompt people to choose the virtual over the real and to disconnect from human beings. Yeah. I think it's. Possible. Especially for those who already have enough trouble socializing and communicating with others. Now, they have this virtual partner that would prevent them from really needing to talk to anyone else. So I think it's harmful to that. And I I don't know if people will start to switch over to that like give up their social existence in order to be with one of these dolls. But I think for those who are already having that problem it will prevent them from being able to carry on normal human interactions. What about people who are naturally shy and may feel liberated by the idea of engaging with something that won't judge them that won't catch them off or discard them? I mean, I think it would be it would be possible. I know that I'm kind of outgoing. But I I keep to myself most of the time, and I can understand why how some people would feel more accepted feel more. Liberated having this partner that quote, unquote, understands them, I guess, you could say, so I I understand what they might get out of it. I don't know if it would cause any sort of problems for them later on down the line. I tend to believe that at some point you will need to communicate with other people. And if you're lacking that knowledge than I think, it's going to be a lot harder harder is the robot really understanding you or just programmed to simulate understanding, I don't know how good the technology is. But it something that as you interact with it, more and more does it. Learn things about you. Is it a learning machine? Or is it something that can only be program so much, and then if it has to be reprogrammed reboot. It does it lose all of those memories that it had with you in which case like pretty much all technological things. You know, you have to back up your, computer? And how do you back up the memories of one of these dolls? I need to store my girlfriend in the cloud kind of thing. And then to one of my biggest issues, and I just I think there's a sanitation issue involved in in for me. It seems a little disturbed. And I think it it puts out a weird fantasy that I don't quite agree with. But I understand why people do it. But in regards to the article piece about sexual violence that it would actually possibly take someone who is has tendencies toward sexual violence than it might prevent them because they can take it out on the doll. I could see what my work, but I tend to think that if the doll isn't responding in some way that they might get bored with that and want to choose someone who actually gets the reaction out of it new technology new frontier, new discussions to be had about what the implications are. And I wouldn't spend ten thousand dollars on it or however much they're asking it'll be like pocket. Calculators back in the nineteen seventies. You know, five hundred dollars, right? Lock it calculator and few years later, they were a dollar ninety nine at the checkout at WalMart. So all right, my friend. Thanks for a sounding off. This is a touchy one. But it's interesting subject. I'm glad we're all talking about it. And I appreciate your input very much, sir. No problem. I had an Email from someone who actually owns a sex doll, not a sex robot, but a sex doll, and he felt it was relevant to the conversation. We were having here. I'm not gonna read the entire Email the first half of it. He was talking about buying these dolls in a smaller variety because he was attracted to smaller women, Mike says and the first portion of his letter that he is from the Netherlands. He's thirty seven he has ADD in his mildly autistic, but highly functioning he said, I have one life sized dole now and one miniature dole Mike says I even bought her fairy wings, so she can play the part. She's about sixty three centimeters tall. I do the makeup on my Dole's myself. Of course who else is going to do it. If I want to keep this a secret, which you need to reapply once in a while because the dolls I have are made of T P E, and it doesn't really hold makeup. Very well. T P, by the way, stands for thermoplastic elastomer or thermoplastic rubber some clothes can actually stain which is a pain to remove but even that will eventually fade because T P E loses its oil over time. Which is why you need to maintain them with baby oil or mineral oil. There are currently two types of Dole's T, P E and silicone T P is softer and cheaper. But it feels sticky and has the issue of losing oil over time silicone is a bit harder, which is usually not beneficial to the feel of breasts, but it does not feel sticky and does not stain. You also don't need to oil it as it does not lose any over time. But it still isn't maintenance free. And because it's less flexible that also tears easier. It's not like you can just get a doll. And that's it. They need attention to in return. Turn Mike says you get some kind of connection to your dole. I like my dolls I cuddle with them too. They're not just for sex because of this. You do get a bit of an emotional connection with them me, not as strong as some other people. I've heard talk about their dolls perhaps. But it's still there you get to play dress up with them, which isn't easy because they could be heavy, and they don't exactly cooperate and that aspect I'm lucky to have a preference for small dolls. There are those that prefer big thick dolls like Haley, the doll that has become a kind of Meam it's over one hundred pounds of dead weight. Mine is only about fifty pounds the sixty three centimeter one is a feather way did only eight pounds. But I'm still talking about dolls. Not robots. What I want a robot? Scheuer? Do I expect to be able to get one in my lifetime? Nope. We're not. Anywhere near close to a robot Android that is capable of moving on its own. Yes, we have the Japanese and Chinese examples of what looked like a I robots, but they are operated by people from a laptop connected to dozens of wires not dimension a permanent connection to a power grid. And they're a I is extremely limited. If you deviate even slightly from the programmed interactions, the A I gets confused and won't respond properly as to your question of committing crimes against these dolls slash robots. I've also seen people chop up their doll or heard them tell of lighting their doll on fire with a bunch of friends because they got tired of that doll. I think it's a huge waste of money and a shame. But it's their doll. It still just an animate object. They can do whatever they want with it. And as long as a I is not involved enough to. Even slightly self conscious. I don't see a problem with it on that front either. I'm very much looking forward to this show and to hear what people think of it, my regards, Mike and Mike. Thank you so much for the Email it I'm reminded of a documentary that I'd seen on Netflix. It's titled the truth about killer. Robots? And it's not really what you think. It's just an exploration of AI it's gonna provocative title designed to get clicks. But the documentary itself is worth watching. But part of the story included this Chinese man Zhang Gye, he had gotten so sick and tired of pressure to get married, and he was so convinced that he the sort of nerdy, dude, you know, wouldn't be able to attract or land a woman with a kind of ideal physicality that he so desired that he constructed his own robot spouse, he's an artificial intelligence and. Jim near who gave up he just gave up on his own search for love at the age of thirty one couldn't find a human spouse. And so he decided to build one. Her name is gang Yang. He actually dated the doll for two months captor in his little cubicle had a wedding ceremony. He donned a black suit his mother and his friends attended. Of course, the marriage is not an officially recognized marriage. This was more of a ceremonial thing. But they had the wedding Jang in a black suit Yang his had covered with a red cloth in accordance with local tradition. There's a photograph of him carrying his bride his artificial life size bride across a bridge union can't say much at least at this measure. She can recognize some images she can speak. But only a few simple words, but she is on track. Four upgrades Jing wants to upgrade her to be able to eventually walk and do household chores until then she must be carried from place to place, and he does carrier from his pod to his workspace. And she sits in a chair next to him as he writes code in the documentary. Shing said when he was having the wedding ceremony right there on this bridge that some older gentlemen, walked up to him and said that he was making a mockery of marriage a real marriage. What do you think? So much more to do. After a short break. I'm going to talk to Alice Vaughan. She is one of the co hosts of the porn cast two girls. One Mike we're going to talk about this whole idea that the sex robot might actually be used to kill us. I've got more of your phone calls coming up, and again, I'm going to cap the whole show with a conversation with an actual expert on human sexuality, Dr Martin Klein sort of put a punctuation Mark on all of this. I will be right back. Hang on. There is just no reason for us to pay a whole lot of too much money for those close shave gimmicks. That were always seeing in the commercials. Minutiae him the vibrating heads and the flex balls that move the blades around like it's on a neck or something he's funky razor handles the try to complicate what really should be simple and elegant. Well, the founders of Harry's realized this years ago, and their response has been the purchase of a world class blade factory in Germany and just getting the shave experienced back to what's really important simplicity, a smooth clean, comfortable, shave and fair prices. With Harry's replacement cartridges only two bucks each that is less than half the cost of the Gillette. Fusion pro shield. 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But they call me a sex robot is like calling a computer calculator fix comprises on a small portion of my capabilities limiting to sexual function is like using your car to listen to thirty deal. I knew about five million more. It's the home like pedia the few action movies, but they still have so much to learn. I also have more than eight hundred sixty says into edges controversies night analogy later the farther to ask hypoc you are. No, you may not ask. What's that saying it's not the size of the boat? It's the motion of the ocean. Of course, it has been pointed out that it takes a long time to get across the Atlantic Ocean in a dinghy, but though that's a whole other discussion. That's for another time. Just take that. Elsewhere. Okay today. We're talking about this sex robot on the switchboard. I've got Claudia Claudia you're on the thinking podcasts. How are you? I'm doing. All right. How are you? I'm well. I'm talking about a subject that seems to be kind of polarizing there's people either really four or really against what's your take on this whole thing. Claudia the sex robot? What do you think so? I'm not really for or against it. I just think that we're flowing again into the same cycle that happens every time there's a new bit of technology over and over again. Which is there's this fear that it's going to cause the collapse of society. And I just don't see how like someone who's like. Oh, yeah. Pull the offices like really nice. But the sexy Tron two thousand is coming up with an update. So I'm not gonna ask her out. I just you know, now with extra suction, I don't know like, I just don't I think that's the Tron too. Down. Claudia? That's funny. So you think human beings will always do what human beings have always done and the rest is just going to window-dressing. Do you think we're asking then the wrong questions? Yeah. So I'm not saying that something's can cannot give people the assistance to further isolate themselves. But like they said the same thing about corn for Asia's right that, you know, port is gonna create you know, is going to destroy him in relationships will, you know? No, I'm not saying that it can't create unrealistic expectations. It certainly can. But like the last time they tried to do a study on corneas in men. They couldn't find a control group that didn't watch it. So and yet the human race is still standing. So what I'm suggesting is that there are problems with human connections. But we shouldn't blame the technology. Should maybe blamed the society are you typing while you're talking to be cloudy. I am not typing. But I do have a husband nearby who is Dame you're multitasking like a beast. That's. I'm not that good. No, the my listeners in are hearing someone typing, and I thought, wow, that's that's amazing. I wish I could split my brain into have. So that was happening over here. On the headphones to safe memento to your good. You're good. So I just think you can go back. Hundreds Stephen thousands of years to sing these kids today, and they're, you know, moving type or whatever is going to ruin or lights or video games. People said that violent video games we're going to cause people to become violent. There's no data to suggest that and the idea that sexual robots kind of any worse than any other sex toy in ruining our human connections. I mean in the absence of any data in favor, I would say wait and see, you know, interesting too that the video game industry now makes more money. I believed the film industry, so violent video games caused violence. It would be like a dystopia. Mm-hmm. It'd be like escape from New York there, there'd be rivers of blood in the streets. Right. I think that there's also the enthusiasts. Also, I think take it too far the other way like they think, oh, it's going to provide comfort like isn't. I mean. Unless they can really really really nail. The the human connection side is going to be really hard to replicate with a machine. Claudia do you have conversations about, you know? I mean, I've watched humans, and you know, in and all that what happens if we actually are able to see the computational processes happening to such a degree that maybe some form of consciousness is cheap. Do you think that's just total crap? And now, I don't see why why something is just because it's not made of cells can't have its own intelligence. But it's I think it's more interesting more than like from the human connection side is like, well, you've created something that now has rights. Right. Because if it had if it has a human tolerance who's to say that it shouldn't have human rights. This is the discussion that I see a lot. You know, if you create what is this intially, a something that is to do your will to do your bidding sexually or otherwise that computer that machine that device achieves a form of consciousness, are you then a slave holder are you violating the rights of another entity a conscious entity, that's an interesting discussion. I think philosophically anyway, and how do you know, like one something passes the torrent tests where you know, you can't distinguish it from another person. How can you tell if they react in every possible way the way a person with react verbally or physically or whatever? Then how how can under what basis can you say? Well that it's not you find yourself projecting onto like are. We talking about the Boston dynamics robot dogs. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They kick the robot dog and it falls over. And I just think you son of. I always think when I look at the guy you're the first to go when the apostle of shopping, so. Machines rise up. That one guy in the movie that like is is like a minute, dick. And then when the machines rise up he gets that guy. He's that guy. That's just the gene pool Storting itself out in some way. I think maybe. Projection like with all these human interest dystopia, I think we're projecting our own uneasiness about how we feel about ourselves as humans onto the machines like the machines rise up in punish us for what we perceived to be our own sense back to sort of what we started with in the conversation. We talk a lot about how we live in a society where the human condition is desperate often to blame something and they want something simple to blame. We saw this when they were destroying pinball machines by the hundreds of thousands back in the nineteen sixties and seventies. I think saying the pinball was part of the decline rock and roll was infecting America's youth Elvis wasn't allowed to be shown on television below the waist. He was to sexual it will contaminate young people. We've seen the conversations about the sexualization of rock and roll. Sometimes the violence in the lyrics of rock and roll music, rock and roll music is consider. Heard to be part of the degradation of generation. We're always on the hunt for something to blame. Even if we're not able to back up sort of decline of western civilization with the data. Right. Everybody's talking about. How the world is getting worse when the truth is is we're actually more civilized less violent more enlightened than we've ever been. Right. I think we want something external we can conceive an external enemy if it's just an external thing, you can just get rid of that thing. And then it'll all be fine. But if it's inside if it's just a part of our own nature, and we have to fight against our own impulses. That's hardened scary. And that also recognizes that it can be an every one of us it. It's not like, oh, if I just don't play the video games, I'm fine. Or if I don't let my kids play the against their fine. Whereas looking into oh, no these impulses that exist in rehearsal, and we have to be mindful of them and watch full of them and work on mental health, which is like this big huge thing that's hard. And we don't like hard just for the record like. To say that hard and scary would be great names for a sex robot doll. I just want that out. Claudia? You're awesome. Thanks for being a part of that would be more of a knee concept not to drag this out. But beyond the fact that I don't really get it sexually the idea of having a life-size robot in my house, and they can take the faces off of them, and they're terrifying. When you do when you take those magnetic faces often, you just see the mechanisms with the sockets in the in the balls of the eyes are looking out and there's flashing lights and a gaping hole for the mouth and teeth. And all my I mean to me I've seen enough movies. I know how this is this is how would die. I mean think about those types of things. Okay. Honestly. No, nothing. But no, you think when I do think like sort of a realistically it's because everything is online now. Right. Like, if you have a a human sized humanoid robot in your house, and they have net connectivity. Like the next thing. You think is okay. What happens if my robot gets hacked like? Do you know? I'm so glad you brought that up because it's a perfect segue into my next segment. Claudia? So thank you so much. Thanks for your input. Thanks for listening and all my best. Okay. There was an article this was published in September of two thousand seventeen hackers could program. Sex robots kill this is out of the New York Post a cybersecurity. Scientists has issued a bizarre warning that sex robots could one day rise up and kill their owners. If hackers can get inside their heads last month. And again, this is twenty seventeen tech billionaire Elon Musk claim that artificial intelligence could take over the planet. And he's not the only one concerned about the dangers of killer tech with sex robots becoming increasingly popular and sophisticated cybersecurity lecturer Dr Nick Paterson revealed that the life like dolls could end up going all Terminator on us. However in the case of sex robots. The danger isn't that the love Dole's will end up developing minds of their own Westworld style. Instead the risk is that hackers could break the realistic robots inner defenses and catch their owners with their pants down. Now, that's interesting like she got to assume that the is have some sort of camera mechanism, right? So someone is doing something with a sex robot. And the robot is looking back gazing back at you. But the video feed is being fed to someone somewhere via an internet connection that you have or a bluetooth connection, and before you know, it your ass is on YouTube, literally Patterson said hacking into many modern day robot, including sex box would be a piece of cake compared to more sophisticated gadgets, like cell phones and computers. The tack expert from Australia's deacon university said hackers can hack into a robot or robotic device and have full control of the connections arms legs and other attached, tools like knives or welding devices, wait a minute. Why does your Steck spot have a welder unless he just speaking in a more general sense the warning may sound a little far fetched? But the robots run using an operating system just like a phone or PC and as with all devices if that system is ever connected to the internet, then it becomes possible for hackers to break into it. I mean, I got a point. I mean, what computerized device has not in some way been hacked. And I don't know the answer to the question. But I would assume that anything worth hacking or worth it to the hackers. You know, anything that's fair game. That's looks vulnerable. That appeals to you know, the rogues up there who are interested in Jack in with a system, pardon the expression. Now, that's I mean, I don't know those seem like legitimate concerns to me, and it seems like ripe opportunities for blackmail. What happens if somebody's doing something to a sex robot and? And all of a sudden, they're informed that there's footage of it. And unless you pay me one hundred thousand dollars this goes to your employer or spout. I mean. I don't know. I don't know the answer to these questions. I don't know. And then we looking at an entire industry that's based around the sort of sex pot antivirus like people by an antivirus program for the sex robot. You know, then you renew it every year, and it has to download updates to deal with the newer viruses. And or people just putting duct tape over the eyes. I mean, you go old school on right? You just go old school just to be sure. I'm just saying. I don't know to me. That's interesting stuff. Joining me for this. Next segment is host of a porn cast called two girls. One Mike Alice Vaughan Alice I know you innovate are both hosting the show that has had a lot of success. It's kind of been overwhelming and incredible the reception with Pat within seven months, we have been at least half the time on the top of the two hundred tunes comedy charts. And we've had some fantastic guests like Nina hardly, Tom Arnold among many others. Join us so it's been so I opening fun to do have you done any conversations about the sex robots. We haven't done a full episodes adds. However, I have done quite a bit exploring within territory the first question, I hear a lot of is is just another sex toy is that all it is or by looking like us and acting like us has it becomes something more and does it begin to replace flesh and blood? Blood intimate human contact. So I wanna I get this out of the way and say that to everybody who looks at it as this is weird is a strange with this objective. Buying for stuff. Owning a sex doll is no weirder than anyone who owns vibrator at dildo a flashlight masturbaters, it's no different than any other toy for that matter and to anyone who argues at dolls objectify women, just look at a dildo. You don't get much more objectified that dildo because you remove the entire body. There's no face no arms. No legs. No six pack adds. It's just a penis. And that seal two minute objectification, in my opinion. At least a dull if anything in embodies emboldens, the beauty of a woman that said Willett ever replaced fleshing blood. Yes, annoying depends on the circumstance. So why are we I discuss who are the types of people who invest or utilize a sex at all have you had that conversation yet we begin? I think with conversation single. Case study about someone who felt like he could not compete in the real world. He was cramp at social situations. And so rather than try to wait for a reality that he would never see he created one in his own life using a I I think that's important, and that's definitely need that should be filled. Look, there are a myriad of reasons. Why someone would want to purchase a sex doll the most common that you're going to hear our persons who say I'm just hired of being alone. I don't want the head games. My spouse in I have a sexless relationship with dolls. I can be myself. These are people who, you know, either are in struggling relationships where they're not being sexually fulfilled, or they're people who just had a number of experiences with others that just didn't pan out, and they're frustrated, and I can understand relate to that. Frankly, I think most people can a few just have shitty relationship after relationship. Wouldn't something that gives a lot of the appeal of a human being minus old of frustration. When it that be appealing for you know, to give you some release. So that is definitely one reason to have sex doll. There's also the flexibility end submissiveness allows you to literally try any sexual stunt without cheating or risk of STI STI you can potentially utilize a sex doll as a couple without any judgment to a threesome in the case of failing marriages or even losing a partner, which is very hurting. Can't take time, you know, before going into another relationship, it could be that placeholder. Frankly, it is a great transition piece, and you know, being able to experience idea of companionship is different. I mean, let me put it this way. A lot of women. Don't completely found understand the need for a sex doll. Well, a lot of men in my opinion, don't understand the need for erotica. You know, you'll have men who frequently make fun of it. I mean, like, the how can I put it this way like the fifty shades of grey a series now, I can make fun of it for a myriad of other reasons such as being horrible trail of Bedia Sam. But the point is it appeals to people in a different way women, you know, vibrators can only do so much, but there's something different about being able to lay on a man's chest. You know, if we have realistic sex dolls where you could do that that becomes automatically more appealing to women who are looking for a little bit more affection and companionship in much like a textile would be interesting to a man who may be is just knocking properly fulfilled and doesn't only just wanna use a pocket bussey. So some sexist symbiotic thing, I mean, I know fantasy obviously is a big part of the conversation. But isn't there something to having the reciprocity of touch of having someone act and react? I mean, you're talking about now mostly inanimate. Object. Right. Well, one thing I do want to mention though is that it's often portrayed. I only wanna bring this up because I've never once met a person who thinks her sex doll is real. However, you see all the time portrayed in movies, documentaries or fo-. Mock you memories, just like porn addiction as bad over masturbation as bad saying for over utilizing sex doll or any other toy it's nothing that's going to be overall a hundred percent holistic replacement for a human being. But you know, you can have relationships in you can have sex and this helps fulfill one specific need. So you you don't like somebody like going out on a dinner date and they put their sex dole. In the passenger seat dragged into a restaurant, or is this just like back in the basement back in the bedroom kinda stuff it's more in the bedroom. That is just a phone errative that we seem to ascribe to sex adult owners. That's just not realised never met someone who takes their sex. On a dinner date. I know I know, but every I had these like in my mind, I think to myself. Well, okay. All right. So normalized the sex doll, and then it becomes a companion. And then what other things become part of that new normal? So else. But I'm not gonna take it out on a day. Okay. I'd like to talk a little bit about the fact that most of these sex dolls are women. I think all the sex robots are women are female there are male sex dolls out there. But I don't think the robots are around there yet you want to speak to them mostly as I mentioned before you know, there's things that appeal to men in. There are things that appeal to women for men there's quite bit more visual stimulation that's needed than for women. I mean, women we can get away with just going on in reading erotica men can't necessarily do that. So you know, I'd be curious to learn what a better biology makes that kick in Knicks at happen. But yes, so it appeals to men more because that is a specific need that seems to be wanted. So what happens when the guy starts beaten up the sex doll because it fulfills some sort of violent sexual fantasy. So first off let me start by saying. That the costs for one of these sex dolls range between five thousand to sixty thousand dollars. So, you know, once you invest in it, it's not a cheap toy. Now that said last year a sex doll was available for testing by consumers at the air s Electronica music festival in Austria, the sex stall Samantha she received Balon of aggressive. Attention was left heavily soiled parts of her were broken repairs for needed mouth damage, etc. Doesn't sound plus. But here's the thing. I used to work trade shows, and anyone who has ever worked with products at a trade show will tell you that people will use an abuse anything that they can see without hesitation to test the products in its limits if it doesn't belong to you. Why take care of it someone else's problem? It's just a sample. It's here for me to play around with that is the mindset now that said when people invest in their own toy. Obviously if you invest in an iphone or Android, he spent several hundred dollars on you're not gonna throw it against a wall. I mean, you could. But I mean, the percentage of that is so small that you're not going to necessarily concern yourself with individuals who by just to throw it against wall. That would be a very expensive habit seen as with textiles. You're going to have to take care of it. Unlike a real person, they're not self cleaning down there. I'm thinking though, more about intense. What happens if someone sexual fantasy is hurting another human being in instead of the person they have the dome. I would argue what it it's be safer for them to exert that onto a dull as opposed to another human being not one of the arguments for certain, I know the sex industry, the six dollar industries making that argument that this is a sort of deflection to keep it from harming flesh and blood people at there. I think you know, if I'm going to exert might will power onto a sex doll. I rather do that as opposed to exerting at Gresham onto any other human being I would find a. Comparable to a video game. I'm not going to compare how I act in call of duty to if I were at an actual shooting range that is absolutely bonkers. And there's evidence to show there's no correlation there. I would be curious to see what the correlation is with people exerting, you know, some sort of more aggressive fantasy onto a sex doll versus the treatment of normal human being I would argue that it's going to be quite different evangelical conservatives going to have a field day with the rise of the sex robot. You know, screaming about the and behavior the tapping behind closed doors, but it's also interesting to watch many of the objections from my fellow liberal on the issue. I feel that anything that isn't of the general norm. We look at it as weird or unusual. I tell people be open granted, I speak on my show about a number of different products and fantasies things that generally appeal to me, however, they do appeal to some. Else in. I rather not shame that person. I rather take the time to understand. What is it that satisfies is specific need or interest? That can't be fulfilled any other way. I mean, I don't get a foot fetish. But I'm not going to Shane people who have a foot fetish. Look at the end of the day, people crave. Connection and sex sells will never ultimately replace what we have in personal connection with others, but they can help when it comes to specific needs that people just aren't receiving in the bedroom. And at the day, they're no different as a tool or toy than anything else that people are already utilizing vibrators, Hitachi's toys, you name it. I mean, look everybody's going to have their thing. They think is a little weird or side the norm. Give it a try. You never know at least be open to again, it doesn't appeal to you. That's fine. Appeals. Someone else why take it away. There's no reason to does much more good than harm a can't even think of any harm that it does in most people who claim that it has harm to people or two women. Generally, don't understand the need of why people want these to begin with. I'm looking forward to finding out. How many of these end up the homes of pastors like go into a raid, some pastors home some guy who's been pounding the pulpit talking about sexual purity. And then they go down. It was basement into his dungeon. And they'll see got all kind of accoutrements including his own robots ex. All I just think that would be some sweet Justice Ellison just say, so, you know, if more preset sex dolls, I think that we would reduce the number of incidence of other things happening. So. You're greatly. Appreciate it. Thanks for talking to me about this stuff and being a part of the conversation and all success not there. Okay. One more short break when I come back. Let's talk to Dr Marty Klein he is an expert in human sexuality who's done working this field for over thirty five years, and he's going to talk to us about sex robots from a scientific standpoint right after this hang on. Let's say you just bought a house bad news is you're one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll proudly mow the lawn and give anybody noticed you mow the lawn till people to stay off the lawn compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again, good news is it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive and save on your car insurance. Which of course, we'll go right into the lawn. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurers discount on in all stages situations. Let's say you just bought a house bad news is you're one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll proudly mow the lawn and give anybody noticed you mow the lawn. Tell people to stay off the lawn compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again good news is it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive and save on your car insurance. Which of course, we'll go right into the lawn progress. No casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurers discount onto stage situations. Dr Marty Klein has been a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified sex therapist for over thirty five years. He has been quoted everywhere the New York Times he's been in parents magazine, he's been featured in playboy well, not featured. But you know, his work has been cited in playboy, he writes, these sexual intelligence blog, and he writes for psychology today. He's been featured on National Public Radio twenty twenty Nightline the daily show and many others. Just a few of his book titles include real sex in virtual world, his porn, her pain, America's war on sex and sexual intelligence, Dr Martin Klein, it is a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you. So I've heard it called a post human, companionship. I guess I'm going to start. There are sects there. Pissed entering a time. When we're talking about relationships between human beings and robotic lovers instead of human ones. Well, we're all entering that age, not just sex, therapists. If we look around we noticed that whether it's in Japan or whether it's in Canada, whether it's here or other places people are beginning to value their relationships with robots very much as companions as sex partners. So it's not just sex therapist who have to deal with this. This is becoming more common than anyone ever predicted. I think what I mean by the question is that are you advising people when it comes to relationships with machines. I mean, you could insert your favorite ex wife joke here. My wife was such a pain. And then I got a robot. Boy is that a lot easier. I'm sure that a lot of men and women both think anything would be easier than my ex. I frankly, I've not had anyone walk into the office and say, hi pleased, my robot, would you consider central bonds sort of in the same category of other types of sex toy your fantasy accessory sort of an extension of the vibrator kind of thing. Well, of course, of course, that does make the question of what category. Do you put a sex toy? But yeah, I mean, a robot is just like a sex toy except a little more complex just like today's vibrator is way more complex than the vibrators in the nineteen seventies. Some people are worried as I was doing some research. I was looking at some of the concerns, right? Some of the people who are pro and some people who are gone, and there are some who are worried that they would lose like a real life sex partner to some fabricated other. You know, some idea. Realized sexual object. You know, my husband won't touch me. But he just won't disconnect from the shaggy Nater three thousand kind of thing. You know, do you hear those types of concerns and how about you speak to that? Well, you know since the beginning of time people have been concerned about my partner might find something else. More attractive than me. Whether it's a person of a different race or person of a different age or a person with, you know, more money or different political connections or person who has a dog. So the whole concept of I'm afraid I'm going to get left behind. That's a very old story. I mean, that's the story of Helen of Troy, right? Somebody is married to somebody. And they get involved with Troy and everybody's all upset and they start a ten year war. But I don't think that anybody in in a truly intimate relationship needs to fear any non human competition, whether it's pornography or sex toy or or a robot are. Are there any issues with unrealistic body expectations? We already see this, especially when it comes to women, and the fact that someone can now go in and create a hugely unrealistic chess is waist line. Whatever, you know, the length of the legs or I mean, you just within two. But does this creates sort of a cultural problem where people are still trying even further to compete with an ideal that they would never meet? Well, you know, just like pornography is not responsible for anyone who feels. They have t- was pornography. Robots are not responsible for anyone feeling. They have to compete with a rope. You don't need pornography or a robot around to know that every day of the week your point there as soon as they walk out the door. They're going to see men or women who are younger than you and were attracted, and you and have more money than you and laugh at somebody's jokes more than you and just been twenty minutes at the airport, and you'll see men and women of all shapes and sizes some of which. We'll be more physically attractive, then your own porn, or so, you know, robots pornography. Didn't invent that. The question is how does any of us maintained a sense of our own sexual attractiveness as we go through the life cycle as we get older as our skin wrinkles as Briscoe for big around our neck to being around our waist. How does anybody continue to feel sexually attractive when you go to the supermarket and all the people who used to look at you? They don't look at you anymore. So that's a long term existential project that everybody has to deal with and to say that now it's a sudden thing because of robots or porn or sex toys or anything like that is just not realistic. I mean back in the nineteen thirties. How are you supposed to compete with Clark Gable? How are you supposed to compete with Betty Davis or with Myrna Loy and in the fifties? How are you supposed to compete with Elvis so with Marilyn Monroe? So robots is just is just the newest thing. And everybody has to figure out what is sexually desirable about me. And the unless you're twenty two years old the answer has to be different than I looked like a twenty two year old. I was doing a story near the top of the show about a guy who has in China, and he had no confidence with women. They had no luck or success in relationships. And so we fabricated his own quote, unquote, bride, and I was about this one of the reasons he had done so was and this is his admission was loneliness, can we speak to loneliness when it comes to sort of creating companions for ourselves is that a healthy way to compensate well to ask you something healthy. I mean, that's to ask about one hundred other questions also and at the end of the day. There is no objective answer to that. It's a cultural, you know, that's a cultural question. I mean, a lot of people deal with willingness by getting pets, and some people think that's just the greatest thing in the world and other people think that that's Fetig and. Some people deal with loneliness through Facebook, and some people think that's great. And some people think that's pathetic. And frankly, some people they marry their third husband or third wife when they're sixty five years old just because they don't wanna be alone. And they don't especially love that person. They certainly don't hope that they're going to have this amazing sexual connection, but they just don't wanna wake up alone. And they don't want to go to sleep alone. You know, most people don't think that there's anything wrong with that. So, you know, the question of what is it healthy to deal with your loneliness by taking pill or having a drink or going to a local bar and watching a football game with fifty other strangers or getting involved with a sex robot. That's more of a philosophical or cultural question than it is a psychological question. You know, at the end of the day the question is would that work for you? And if if it doesn't work for you, don't do it. And if it works for you, and nobody is getting hurt. Then you know, the worst thing that you can. Say is that your way of dealing with loneliness doesn't force you to grow some ways of dealing with loneliness force us to grow a little bit. Some ways of dealing with loneliness force us to grow a lot and some ways to dealing with loneliness. Don't force us to grow at all. And if you're prejudiced about growth is a good thing. And that any any solution to you in province that doesn't involve growth, that's sort sorta weasling out. Well, you know, then that's how you're gonna feel about robots talking to your doctor Martin Klein going to bring up some of the heavy stuff. There are many concerns about people using sex robots to act out actual violent fantasies against a partner. You know, this could mean striking or otherwise committing violence against this human analog is this a release against a barely animate object keeps the violent from hurting real people or do you feel this legitimises, the violent tendencies and desires of dangerous people? That's a really good question. And so far what science tells us is pretty. Reassuring so far what science tells us is that if you look at cultures where people with violent tendencies have always for those violent tendencies, they tend to get more violent. So in a lot of neighborhoods where there's a certain amount of violence. There are boxing gyms that open up and young men's organizations where people learn how to box and nobody thinks that's a bad thing. You know? Nobody says, gee, we shouldn't channel this aggression that young men have into boxing because then they might think well since it's okay to punch somebody when I'm in the ring. Maybe it's okay to punch somebody when I'm out of the ring. Nobody says that you know, and the date on that is pretty clear that just because people get involved with boxing. They're not more likely to go out and punch somebody in the nose in a restaurant. So it's the same thing with with robots the truth is that if somebody does have violent tendencies, I would think that anybody would want them to act. Those fantasies with a robot rather than a real person? So I think that people who say, oh, what if people enjoy punching a robot or raping a robot, then they're going to want to rape somebody in real life. I think that's confused thinking because the truth is that if you get the satisfaction of wrecking body, you'll go back and rape or a robot. Again, I also think what's true. And and the research beers is out that there is what David Finkel hor Qualls is dark triad of personality characteristics. That if you have a person, and it's usually, but not always a male. But if you have a person who happens to score high on psychopathy and Machiavellian ISM and north Assim and a belief in in domination, then that person is more likely to be violent real life. That's been true since the beginning of time, and you know, other than putting all of those guys, you know, on a little island in the middle of the Pacific. We. Have to learn how to live with those guys. And the question that every civilization has dealt with is given that there's a very small number of men in our society what ever century, you're in whatever continent, you're given that there's a very small number of men who will pretty much convert anything into giving themselves permission to violence. You know, if you're mean to them, they respond with violence, if you're nice to them, they respond with violence, if you give them, you know, a piece of cake, they responded with violence. You know, what are we supposed to do with those guys? And I think there are a lot of answers to that. I think one of the worst answers to that is let's limit everybody else's right to protect us from that very small number of of highly violent men. So I'm not worried about how how sex robots or sex dolls are going to somehow increase the amount of sexual violence in the culture, the data that we have is that people who are going to be violent with objects. They're going to be violent with those odds. Objects. It's not like you have some perfectly nice boy scout milk-drinking person he acts out a fantasy with a robot and things. Wow. That was really fun to slap a robot in the face think. I'll go slap my wife in the face. That's just not how it happens. Well, I think one of the arguments is that perhaps the pleasure that this abuser gets is seeing a tangible human response seeing pain expressed and those sort of very horrible things. And if they're not getting that from this robotic character than they might segue from the robot to of flesh and blood human being I'm not sure how to ask that question. But does that make sense? Well, what I'm not sure the question. But if the question is if the district people use sex robots at a sex, robots don't cry real tears, aren't they more likely to be sadistic with real people. And if that's your question, then the answer is well sadistic people are going to do what sadistic people are going to do. And if they don't get satisfaction from sex robots, and they act out with real people. Well, they were going to do that before the sexual came along. It's not like the sex robots trigger some sadistic impulse and people people either have sadistic impulses that they don't people who have sadistic impulses. They learn how to deal with them and a few small number of people who have to just impulses. They don't learn how to deal with them and those people are acting up before sex whereabouts were even invented and they will continue to act out. I wanna finish this segment with for broader philosophical question about for shame culture, and some of the puritanism that happens here in the United States. But as long as I'm in this vein. Let's talk a little bit about the child sex robot. There was an article on your own website June nineteenth twenty congress criminalizes sex robots that you speak to HR four six five five the creeper act curbing realistic exploit exploitative 'electronic pet. Pedophiliac robots? The Bill says there is a link in the Bill is reading the language of it. It says there's a link between child sex dolls and participation in child pornography that the dolls are a gateway to rape. And they make the rape of human children easier that they are part of an exploitation and objectification scenario that endangers children and the Bill opposed to make child sex dolls illegal now, I'll be very honest with you. I mean, I'm not a scientist. I'm not an expert. I wanna root myself in the data. But as someone who is genuinely grieved by the notion of sexualizing children molesting and penetrating child even simulated or robotic form, I'm navigating my own mind on this. You know, is this a good thing. So let me just toss it out there. Well, if you look at the Bill the Bill asserts that there's a connection between a and b it's the equivalent of a Bill that says, given the fact that banana is or a proven source of poison we believe. Slater want to limit people's access to bananas. Now if the legislature, whether it's a state or the federal congress legislature wanted to ban bananas because the legislature believed that banana is contained poison there's a procedure for investigating that the congress or the legislature would have to go through they'd have to talk to scientists they'd have to talk to banana growers banana importers banana markers and most important banana consumers they have to talk to a wide range of people before they could say that given up an as a source of poison. We're going to limit the importation bananas. Now, frankly, if bananas are source appointed I wanna see the science, and once you prove it to me, then absolutely build a wall at the border to to coin a phrase and keep those bananas outta here. Now. Now, what this Bill said. This Bill cert- it without one single study without consulting one single expert without ever actually, seeing an actual doll this still asserted that there's a link between the use of these objects and other kinds of objectionable sexual behavior. There's absolutely no study that supports that idea. It's very attractive for a politician or a parent to say anything that makes my kids safe for I'm in favor of and of course, we all feel that way anything that makes kids safer. We're in favor of you know, to the limit of we don't want infantilized the entire society. We don't want to say that since it's not okay for seven year to watch the godfather to we should, you know, censor every adult to access to godfather to I believe it was just as Frankfurt who said. No. It was Mark Twain who said censorship is the idea that just because babies have no. Teeth. Adults should not be allowed to eat steak, you know, which is brilliant. So the legislature says that given the fact that the use of these dolls leads to child molestation and sexual violence and all of that we should limit access to these off. And if that were true I'd be behind it one hundred percent. But the thing is the congress or the legislature never cited one single study. It never convened a panel of experts all it said was that if you take a piece of latex, and you dress it up like a child and allow people to put their penises and those objects in private that somehow that was going to trigger them where they were not interested in having sex with children before it to being interested in having sex with children now, and that makes no sense at all I ask you I'm gonna I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that you don't have sex with children, right? I'm gonna -ssume that you don't want to have sex with children. And I ask you is there any experience that you could possibly have. Have that would change your mind? Is there any any sex doll? Is there any pornography? Is there any magazine article? Is there any anything that anybody could say is there anything that you could do that? At the end of that experience, you would say to yourself sex with a nine year old. That's a great idea. I'm gonna go. Find me a nine year old and the answer. Of course is no the answer. Of course, is no the idea that absolutely healthy and reasonable people are not interested in having sex with children, and that they can have one or two or three experiences with artificial objects and suddenly wake up one morning and say, hey, if it's that good with a doll how much better would it be with a real kid? That's just crazy on the grander stage when we're talking about sexuality sexual expression sexual liberation the United States seems to be of two minds. We still have of. Religious puritanism going on. And on the other side. We also seem to have a sexual revolution. Would you call it that I mean, what are your thoughts? What I can tell you is that the country is not becoming more liberal about sex. The American people individually individually people in their own bedrooms, they are experimenting with more different kinds of partners in different kinds of consensual activities. There's no data that says that nonconsensual sex is increasing. We're talking about it way more. But there's no data to suggest that it's increasing. There's no reason that it would be increasing. In fact, the rates of sexual exploitation of minors is actually gone down in the last ten years and the rates of sexual violence in general, according to the FBI have gone down in the last ten years, but our consciousness about it has been raised a great deal. So we looking at a sexual revolution. Well, if you ask the average twenty three year old they have access to a different range. Of partners than they used to. And people are investigating. Am I you know, my BI sexual my Demi sexual in my transom, my this or my dad, so and people's personal lives. They're investigating more things more consensual things. But as a society as a political culture as an economic system, America's becoming way more conservative sexually been in the last forty years with the one exception with the one exception of legalizing same gender sex, same gender marriage. This country has way more laws regulating sexuality today than we did thirty years ago. You know, it's it's harder to get an abortion. It's harder to have peace and sex education for your kids in public school. It's harder to find contraception on campus and in the campus health center, there are lots of sexually oriented speech. That's now censored on college campuses that wasn't thirty years ago. And there are people who. Are pushing even you know harder to have even more regulations around our sexual behavior. So if there's a sexual revolution that's brewing. Here it's it's certainly not one that I walk. And don't want to try to put a complex issue in a cookie cutter. But his most of this. Religiously motivated, well, certainly the political power of the religious right is stunningly high. It's a stu-. The religious right is is more powerful in this country that in any other developed country in the world people in Italy thought, the home of the pope people in Germany, and France and Spain they're just stunned at how influential the church here is the fact that every tax in that we subsidize churches by giving them all these tax breaks. You know, the Mormon church, for example, owns literally billions of dollars of commercial property that they don't pay any tax on. You know, if if you open a restaurant, you have to pay taxes on the profits. If the Mormon church or the Catholic church, or the Jewish synagogue or the Muslim if any religious institution opens a restaurant. They don't have. To pay tax on the on the prophet. Whereas you, and I do which gives them an enormous advantage when they own office buildings and farms and things like that. So, of course, organized religion in this country is extremely powerful. And everywhere is religion includes as part of what the issue is is to define normal sex in a very very specific very narrow way. And to talk about what are the kinds of sexual activities that God approves of and one of the kinds of sexual activities that God disapproves of now if you talk to an evangelical Christian, and you say tell me about godly sacks they will point to scripture, and they'll say just follow these rules. You know, don't have a man line with a man, and, you know, don't have oral sex or this or that don't don't go lusting after other women, and then as long as you have heterosexual intercourse within a marriage, it's gone Lee, sex never mind. The fact that it might involve physical pain emotional suffering. It might involve manipulation my info coercion. Asian organized religion is not really interested in that side of sexuality when they go about telling their followers how to implement their sex lives how to express themselves sexually. And that's just shocking shocking that somebody would stand up and say, it's not okay to have for mantis sex with another man. But it's okay for man to demand that his wife has sex with him when she's not in the mood because that's part of the divine plan. Well, if that's part of the divine plan count me out of the divine plan, Dr Martin Klein is there a resource or site or sort of a hub where people can find your work. I want to direct people to your writings and other offerings out there. Well, thank you. I suppose people could go to my website, and that's WWW dot sex, Ed dot ORG because I am a sex educator, so WWW dot sex, Ed dot org. I have my blog they're quote sexual intelligence. You can read about my seven books that I've written about various aspects of sex and relationships. You can see videos of me lecturing all over the world about sexuality where I'm training, lawyers and doctors and psychologists and clergy and judges and all that. So I'd say my website is really the best place to start lots of free stuff there. Lots of well written things if I say so myself, and it's WWW dot sex. Ed dot org dot com. Sex said dot org. Dr Marty Klein, you've been very generous with your time. And you've been a huge part of the show. I'm so glad we were able to have a conversation that kind of cap this compelling and provocative subject matter. But it's nice to sort of tether, a real science. And so you're works. Appreciate it. Thank you. So very much. Thanks a lot. That's about all the damage. I can do on this subject here. I hope you've enjoyed kind of a nice diversion from the usual subject matter. I'll see back here next week on the thinking podcast take care. 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