8 Episode results for "Tv. Cameramen"

Nick t took napalm girl photo - June 8, 1972

This Day in History Class

06:22 min | 1 year ago

Nick t took napalm girl photo - June 8, 1972

"They have you ever wondered, how did the smartest marketers cut through the noise? I'm Bob hitmen chairman and CEO of iheartmedia, and on my new show, math and magic. I'm sitting down with the day's most gift that this ruptures. But when I did this people thought I was crazy there. Really? No other rules, aside from, you know, no full frontal nudity go out there and do it. Don't like to follow the trend of listen. It subscribed to math and magic on apple podcast, iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. This day in history class is a production of iheartradio. Hello. Hello, everyone. Welcome to this day in history class where we bring you a new tidbit from history every day. Today is June eighth twenty nineteen. The day was June eighth. Nineteen seventy two the Vietnam war, a particularly deadly conflict have been going on for nearly two decades Associated Press photographer. Nick boot was outside of Chong Bon a village in southeast Vietnam. When a South Vietnamese aircraft dropped its payload of napalm took photos of the scene. One of those photos became known as the napalm girl photo of black and white picture of young girl name Fong thi Kim Phuc running naked as other children ran alongside her in South Vietnamese forces, followed the horrifying picture became a symbol of the brutality of the war, and it got Nick route a Pulitzer prize, Nick route was born in Vietnam in nineteen fifty one after his older brother who was an Associated Press photographer died in Vietnam, boots began to take. Photos for the AP at age sixteen was covering the Vietnam war for the AP when he captured the photo near tongue. Bon a South Vietnamese air force pilot flying, a propeller driven American made a one sky raider carried out the napalm bombing at tongue Bong the point of attack was to get North Vietnamese units out of their positions at tongue Bonn as witnessed the aftermath of attack. He took photos. He used a Leica, m to camera with a thirty five millimeter Sumatran, Lynn's TV cameramen Alan Downes had also caught footage of Kim Phuc and the other children running down the road away from the napalm attack at the time, took the photo called the terror of war. Kim Phuc was nine years old. Kim Phuc is just left of center in the photo, her mouth open in a yell and her arms outstretched as she runs toward the camera, the children that surround her are clothed and. And the South Vietnamese forces walked behind them as a plume of smoke rises in the background the fire caused by the bombs Hepburn off Kim flukes clothes, and burned her skin. A correspondent gave her water and poured some on her burns. When route realized that Kim Phuc have been burned. He took her to a hospital inside. Saigon doctors said, she might not survive her third degree burns, and she was sent to a specialist, plastic surgery center, she received many surgical procedures for her injuries in survived, though some of her family members died and editor at the AP rejected the photo because it showed full frontal nudity back, then photos that included nudity were off limits horse fos, head of the Saigon photo department said that they should make an exception to publish the photo under the condition that no close ups of Kim Phuc would be permitted how you'll the New York photo editor also believes the photo was worth sharing despite the nudity. So the AP transmitted the photo many newsrooms had to disregard their own policies of nudity depiction in photographs to publish the image. White House recordings that were later released showed that then president Richard Nixon, and chief of staff. H r Haldeman wondered whether the photo was often take or actually staged at the time the photo was published antiwar intimate had already been escalating in the United States. So the photo did not really contribute as much to such billings among Americans as some media sources have stated, it's also a myth, as some sources have noted that the photo helped in the war, which came to a close in nineteen seventy five in nineteen seventy three the United States pulled out of the Vietnam war that same year. Route won the Pulitzer prize for spot news, photography, and the world press photo of the year for that image. Incan Phuc stayed in touch over the years, Nick retired in thousand seventeen Kim Phuc went on to help victims of war around the world. I'm each Jeffcoat and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. Keep up with us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at t h c podcast and if you are as fascinated by history and is resounding effects is I am you'd probably love the new podcast unpopular is this show. I host about people who challenge the status quo, even when they faced the threat of persecution in the show, I take a look at what the descent of our forebears can teach us about protests and contrary, and ISM today, you can listen wherever you listen to this day in history class. Thanks again for being here and we'll see you tomorrow. For more podcasts from iheartradio vis the I heart radio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Maybe it's who you woke up next to this morning. Maybe it's what you had for dinner last night. Oh, how you getting to work right now? It's invisible, but a is already making decisions for us on sleep. Walkers were speaking with the smartest people in the world and taking you inside the headquarters of Facebook, the NYPD and a secret lavish Google to find out what the revolution will mean for us. Listen and subscribe to sleep workers, that apple podcasts on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Kim Phuc Nick boot AP Pulitzer prize apple Associated Press Vietnam United States chairman and CEO Facebook tongue Bong New York photo Saigon Vietnam iheartmedia Bonn Chong Bon ISM Alan Downes
S7: April Fooled: Rosie Ruiz Pt. 1

Parcast Presents

41:07 min | 8 months ago

S7: April Fooled: Rosie Ruiz Pt. 1

"The year nineteen eighty the Boston. Marathon winner was Rosie Ruiz. That is until eight days later when Rees was stripped of her title. Enjoy these captivating episodes on the life and lies of Rosie Ruiz from podcast series. Sports criminals. If you'd like to hear more shocking stories from the world of sports make sure to subscribe to sports criminals. New Episodes Premiere every Thursday. Listen free on spotify or wherever you get your podcast on the morning of April twenty first nineteen eighty the eighty fourth annual Boston. Marathon began in Hopkinton Massachusetts over five thousand runners in nearly half. A million spectators gathered for the big race about two hours. After the marathon began the first runners began to finish. The first was as expected. The number one male runner in the World Bill Rodgers as he crossed the finish line. Rogers won his third straight Boston marathon with a time of two hours. Twelve minutes and eleven seconds twenty minutes later the first woman approached the finish line fans stood up expecting to see famed Canadian. Writer Jacqueline Gero. Instead they saw an unknown runner that not even the most obsessive running expert recognized it was Rosie Ruiz a twenty six year old administrative assistant from New York running in her second ever marathon. Res Looked exhausted her arms flailing wildly as if she was swimming her way to the finish line when RUIZ CROSSED FINISH LINE. The led timer listed her time as two hours. Thirty one minutes and fifty six seconds. She hadn't just won the race. She also set the fastest women's marathon time in American history. Ruis grimace and smiled. As she finished the race she had seemingly accomplished impossible coming out of nowhere to win. The most celebrated long distance running event in the world. But it was all a lie. Rosie Ruiz hadn't set a record time. She hadn't even run the race. Welcome to sports criminals a podcast original every week. We dive into the dark side of sports history and look at athletes who not only broke the law but broke the rules and covenants of their sport. We'll also uncover how their actions impacted the history of the sport they played. I'm Tim Johnson. And I'm Carter Roy. You can find episodes of sports criminals and all of their podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream. Sports criminals for free on spotify. Just open the APP anti sports criminals in the search bar at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love but no our doing reach out on facebook and Instagram. At podcast in twitter at podcast network. Today we're discussing Rosie Ruis. Who came out of nowhere to win the Nineteen Eighty Boston Marathon? Only for it to be revealed later that she won the race by cheating this week will explore Ruiz's beginnings and how? She lied to win the Boston. Marathon next week will cover the fallout of the marathon. And how has life changed afterwards? Rosie Ruiz early life is shrouded in mystery. What's known as that? She was born in Havana Cuba on June. Twenty First Nineteen fifty three when she was eight years old she and her mother moved to Miami Florida. Miami felt like an entirely new and alien world to younger. We's she was overwhelmed and isolated living a new country and city surrounded by a language. She didn't speak. She started running both as a way to escape her anxiety in as a way to come to terms with her new surroundings sometime later she was separated from her mother and sent to Hollywood Florida to live with her aunts and uncles again. She took to running to cope. She began running cross country in high school but had to stop when she suffered a knee injury that required surgery even running. The one thing she clung to was taken away from her. After high school she left Florida to study music at Wayne. State College Nebraska. It was another new world for her but she learned to adapt when year into her college career. Ruiz's life was thrown for a loop. When she was involved in a serious car crash. She suffered a blow to the head and the accident. It left her with. Chronic severe headaches and occasional blackouts these lingered far longer than could be explained by the crash so in late nineteen seventy-three. She flew back to Miami where doctors could examiner after a battery of tests. They found the cause of her headaches. A tumor the size of Tangerine embedded in her skull shockingly. The doctors told her that the tumor had been there since she was born. At Twenty Years Old Ruis underwent brain surgery to remove the mass. Luckily the growth turned out to be benign in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven after graduating from college. Ruiz's decided not to return to Miami instead. She threw herself into yet another new city. The Big Apple and this point relieves was comfortable with constant moves in new surroundings and even liked it. She moved into a high rise apartment near Times Square with two roommates and got a job as an administrative assistant for a metal trading company but shortly after she moved to New York. She had her first brush with the law in late. Nineteen seventy seven release. Allegedly stole credit cards from an acquaintances apartment and racked up fifteen hundred dollars in false charges the acquaintance lodged a complaint with the NYPD but Ruis paid restitution and the charges were dropped compounding. Her legal issues were continuing health issues. In September of Nineteen Seventy Eight. Reza's doctors discovered a small defect inner skull leftover from the first brain surgery. She needed another operation. So a plastic plate could be inserted in her skull throughout her life. Ruiz had turned to running to cope with her problems. So in February nineteen seventy nine when she finally felt physically well enough twenty four year old Rosie Ruiz. Once again began running she managed to log a hundred miles a week either running through central park or by training on an exercise bike in her apartment. After a few months of running ruis decided she was ready to put herself to test. She wanted to run a marathon. A marathon is a grueling long distance. Run of twenty six miles and three hundred eighty five yards. It takes its name. Inspiration from the legend. Filipi these who in four ninety. Bc ran from the battle of marathon to the city of Athens to announce the Greeks victory over the Persians. The distance between those two points about twenty six miles became the basis of the modern marathon. The sport was invented for the first Olympic Games in April eighteen. Ninety six in Athens Greece by the Mid Twentieth Century completing a marathon had become one of the most prestigious feats an athlete could accomplish and Rosie. Ruis wanted to prove herself an accomplished athlete. It was a huge jump for her while she had been taking running seriously. Rees was not an experience. Long distance runner. She'd likely never run anything close to marathon length but she was determined to try. Ruis tried to fill out an application for the New York marathon but discovered that the deadline had passed. She contacted the marathon's organizers and ask for special dispensation claiming she was dying of brain cancer convinced by her story. The marathon's organizers allowed her to turn in the application late on the application Ruis listed her expected finishing time as just over four hours about average for a marathon and a very respectable time for a first time runner on the morning of October twenty. First Nineteen seventy-nine Ruis arrived at Fort Wadsworth on Staten Island to compete in the New York City Marathon. It was the largest New York marathon since the event's inception in nineteen seventy with eleven thousand five hundred thirty three runners including forty six hundred first timers like res. An estimated crowd of two point. Five million spectators gathered along the race route to cheer the runners on her. We checked in at Fort. Wadsworth received a number and took her place waiting among the massive crowd of runners at nine. Am The starting cannon fired. The race was on to give herself an out. Ruis asked her roommate to meet her eight miles into the race to check if she wanted to drop out. Whenever we reached the mile mark she looked up and saw her roommate waving in her from the crowd. Ruis shook her head telling her roommate that she felt good and was going to finish. She was not going to quit somewhere near the ten mile. Mark near Nineteenth Street in Brooklyn or we had a change of heart either due to injury or due to exhaustion. She walked off the course and left the race. That didn't mean she had given up on her goal of finishing however far from it she had just decided to take a little shortcut. Ruiz's descended into the subway system and got onto the one train going North into Manhattan. She took a seat and kept her head down trying not to draw any attention to herself with thousands of people participating in the New York Marathon. It wouldn't have seemed that unusual to see a runner on the train. After a few stops release felt more comfortable and struck up a conversation with a woman named Susan Morrow was sitting next to her as it turned out the two of them were going to the same place. The marathon's finish line in central park. Ruiz told Moro that she twisted her ankle at the ten mile mark of the marathon but wanted to cheer on the other runners at the end of the race. Moral was headed to see her friend. Cross the finish line ruis and her new friend off the subway at Columbus Circle and made their way into central park. Ruis was noticeably limping and would occasionally on moral shoulders. They pushed through the crowd in police barricades to get to the finish line as they made their way through. The crowd. Ruis grabbed a can of juice and poured it. Over her head moreover. I thought that was odd but reason that it was a quirky runners. Habit when the two of them reached the final barricade. Ruiz declared herself and injured runner and was helped into the medical tent. Then are we told the medical staff at the marathon that she'd already completed the race. They credited her a time of two hours. Fifty six minutes and twenty nine seconds ranking her at twenty third place among all women that time also qualified her for the Boston Marathon. One of the most famous and celebrated running events in the world after briefly receiving treatment on her ankle. Ruis emerged from the medical tent and found Moro. They exchanged contact information. Andrew we suggested the two could have lunch the next week then. Res Disappeared into the crowd as loved everything about the marathon the thrill of the races beginning the camaraderie with other runners and the victory of finishing the only part she didn't like was having to actually run all twenty six miles but she had seemingly found a way around that when she returned to work. The following Monday release received a hero's welcome. Her coworkers were shocked and impressed by her achievement and Ruiz soaked in the attention. Her boss who also happen to be. A runner was particularly impressed after finding out that her time qualified her for the Boston marathon he generously offered to pay for wiest trip to compete in April her. We graciously accepted but despite her supposed successes all is not well for Rosie Ries in the days and weeks following her surprisingly strong finish in the New York Marathon. She began to feel increasingly nervous. Her fraudulent act hadn't just impressed her roommates and friends. It had also created expectations among her co workers and her boss now had to be met. She couldn't risk letting them all down even worse if she performed badly in Boston she'd risked revealing that her New York marathon finish was ally so she trained with the intention of running the full race in addition to wanting to prove herself rees also knew that her cheat in Newark wasn't guaranteed to work in Boston which was a more prestigious race with greater media. Attention and scrutiny in the five months between the New York marathon in the Boston Marathon. Ruis ran as much as she could. Outside of work as the race approached in the spring of nineteen eighty however ruis likely knew she wasn't ready the truth was she wouldn't be able to legitimately come close to the two hours fifty six minutes. She supposedly accomplished in New York and it was even more likely that she wouldn't be able to finish the race at all but she couldn't quit. She had to see it through on April twentieth. Nineteen eighty the night before the marathon ruis called her mother in Miami. She asked her mother to pray for her and said that she needed to win. Her mother applied that she always prayed for her. The next morning we left her hotel and walked to the starting area of the Nineteen Eighty Boston. Marathon it would be the most consequential day of her entire life. When we come back Rosie Ruis takes on the Boston marathon now. Back to the story as twenty six year old Rosie. Ruiz stepped up to the starting line of the Nineteen Eighty Boston Marathon. She felt a huge amount of pressure to perform. Not only did she feel the personal pressure to replicate her supposedly great finish in the nineteen seventy nine New York marathon but she also felt as though she was carrying the burden of the women who came before her. She couldn't let herself do significantly worse in Boston. Let alone fail to finish and risk revealing that. Her performance in New York was ally too much was at stake her reputation her job and possibly even the reputation of women's long distance running the Boston. Marathon was one of the first races established after the eighteen ninety six Olympics and was first held one year later on April nineteenth eighteen ninety seven quickly established itself as one of the most respected and celebrated running events in the world and remains today the world's oldest annual marathon when marathons I began. They were only open to male runners and it took nearly seventy five years for the Boston Marathon to be open to women in one thousand nine hundred sixty six twenty four year old. Roberta Gibbs submitted an application for the Boston marathon but was rejected by the race director. Who stated that women were physiologically incapable of running long distances? Gabe refused to accept that instead. She took a bus from San Diego to Boston and hid in the bushes as the race started. After a few moments and wearing a bulky sweater she surreptitiously jumped into the crowd of runners within a few minutes. The runners around realized that give was a woman and gave her their support. After they told Gibbs that they wouldn't let the race organizers. Throw her out give took offer sweatshirt and revealed her gender by the end of the marathon. She was a celebrity. The Governor of Massachusetts arrived to shake her hand as she crossed the finish line. Still the race refused to allow women but give at inspired them to run it anyway. The next year twenty nine year old Katherine Switzer registered as a male to get a number and penny then finished the race. Despite a race officials attempt to physically remove her from the race. Thanks to the efforts of women like give and Switzer the amateur Athletic Union finally permitted women to running marathons in nineteen seventy two that year. Eight women started the race and all finished by the time. Rosie Ruis arrived in Boston in one thousand nine hundred eighty. The number of women running had risen to four hundred fifty six still a fraction compared to the five thousand male runners when Rosie. Ruiz woke up on the morning of April. Twenty first nineteen eighty. She may have intended on running the race legitimately despite her lies about finishing the New York Marathon. She might have still been conflicted about doing the same in Boston and may have wanted to prove to herself that she could run the entire race but cheating was always an option. The weather was warm that morning when Rosie Ruiz left her hotel. She took the train to the suburb of. Hopkinton where she meant. Four hundred and fifty five other women and over five thousand men at the starting line of the marathon. She received the official number W fifty signifying that. She was the fiftieth ranked woman in the race. Thanks to her supposed finish in New York Jacqueline Guiraud. A Canadian runner was the favourite to win the women's race. She'd won the national capital Marathon in Ottawa. The year before and many of the spectators in Boston that day were there to see. If Garo could win another Garros stiffest competition was with American Patti. Lyons who came in second in the New York Marathon. Twenty six year old Rosie. Ruiz was not on anyone's radar despite her high rank and her strong finish in New York but ruis was there to win and was willing to do whatever it took to achieve first place. The starting gun was fired. Fans cheered as Rosy Ruis and a five thousand other runners set off on the twenty six mile journey to shoulder in a massive swarm. It wasn't long before her legs and feet began to tire. Her breathing became more labored as deep down understood that Oliver Training hadn't truly prepared her for a full marathon. She was never going to finish all twenty six miles not long into the race. Ruis had a momentous decision to make. She could admit her own shortcomings and quit but she thought about the consequences. She might face what would happen if her boss who paid for her to run in the Boston. Marathon found out that she hadn't even made it half way. The other option was to cheat. Sheet already gotten away with New York and she believes she could easily get away with it again so she made her decision. She turned an abruptly. Jog off the race route. Just like she had in New York for we took a short cut after exiting. The race release found a quiet place to wait for an hour staying as far away from views. She could when enough time has passed to make her finishing time believable. She made her way to the nearest train station and took the hour long train. Ride to Kenmore Square and Boston. Ruiz was more careful than she'd been in New York. She kept to herself and didn't strike up a conversation with anyone as she boarded the Green Line train. The train was crowded and Ruiz's hard pounded as it crawled toward Boston. Desperately hoping that no one would make eye contact and ask her about the marathon number on her shirt. No one did ruis made it to Boston without being noticed when Rees reached her destination she left the train headed for the finish line slipping through the busy crowd or we started running as she approached the race just over two hours after the race began rosie. Ruiz emerged from the crowd of cheering spectators and seamlessly merged with the marathon runners. She glanced behind her then to her left and right none of the spectators nor any of the other runners seemed to recognize that anything was amiss however elise had rejoined the race far ahead of any other female runners. It's possible that she simply missed judged jump into the marathon however it's also possible that like she told her mother she felt as though she needed to win and tried her best to do exactly that after jumping onto the course ruis reportedly ran the last mile of the race. She built up enough sweat to look convincing enough to most spectators and the enthusiastic crowd cheered her on as she stumbled past the finish line. Exactly two hours thirty one minutes and fifty six seconds after the race began rosie. Ries had fought her way through car. Crashes Brain surgeries and numerous personal problems to win the most prestigious running event in the world. It was no longer Rosie Ruis Administrative Assistant. She was now. We re we's Boston marathon champion. After crossing the finish line released put on a good show and played the part of a marathon runner exhausted looking. She nearly collapsed into the arms of two police officers. Photographers and TV. Cameramen focused their lenses. On the victorious. Ruis as she limped with the officers help away from the finish line. Other runners congratulated breweries. She passed which she acknowledged with a smile. Ruis made it to the victory stand where race officials congratulated her placed a laurel wreath on her head suddenly energetic ruis wave to the crowd and beamed taking in all of the attention. She had gotten away with her lie. Rosie Ruiz had become in the blink of an eye a famed marathon champion. Three minutes after Rosie Ruiz finished Jacqueline Guru across the finish line and was met with a polite cheer from the crowd. Caro- immediately noticed that the cheers weren't as loud as she expected. She looked up to the winter. Stand and saw Rosie release with a wreath and a metal and was confused. She had senior we's at any point in the entire race. Garo finished with a time of two hours. Thirty four minutes. Twenty eight seconds a new personal best but there was no fanfare or Laurel wreath for her. No Prize for second place. Ruis had beaten the women's record by nearly three minutes on the Victory Stage Rosie. Ruiz took her place alongside men's winner. Bill Rogers Rogers took one look at release and furrowed his brow. He expected to be standing alongside. Jacqueline Guerrero the first words Rogers said to Ruiz were simply. Who Are you? As Ruis innocently introduced herself Rogers took a closer look at her and quickly realized that something was fishy or we was wearing a thick shirt with sleeves. Despite the fact that all elite long distance runners preferred thin sleeveless shirts even stranger. There were no sweat stains on her uniform. She didn't seem nearly as exhausted as Rogers knew she would be after finishing a marathon on top of all that we simply didn't physically look like she was in shape to be a marathon runner however it was too late to stop the celebrations Massachusetts Governor. Edward King shook ruis and Rogers hands as he awarded them their medals and congratulated them on their victories as the two winners stood together on the podium. Rogers made small talk with Ruis. He asked her what her splits were and was met with a blank stare or we didn't know that splits were. Jerez time divided into smaller parts. That confirmed it for Rogers. She definitely hadn't run the race. Rogers the race organizers and members of the press. We're beginning to realize what had happened but ruis for the moment was victorious. She was on top of the world down in the crowd. Bill Rodgers brother. Charlie watched and begin to feel physically. Ill He also realized Ruiz's didn't look like a marathon runner and that there must have been a mistake as the medal ceremony concluded. Charlie set off to find a race official to tell them off his suspicions within five minutes of ruas victory. The organizers of the marathon knew something had gone terribly wrong when we come back Rosie. Ruiz faces serious questions about her shocking marathon. Victory now back to the story on April Twenty First Nineteen Eighty Twenty six year old administrative assistant rosie. Ruiz came out of nowhere to win the Boston Marathon. It was a great story an amateur runner with only one other race to her name. Who beat the odds to win the marathon? It seemed too good to be true because it was rosie. Ruiz hadn't run the marathon at all. She had cheated. Suspicions started to mount immediately after we cross the Finish Line. It started with a male winner. Bill Rodgers. Who could sense that we hadn't run twenty six miles a few minutes? After Ruis was given her medal. She was pulled into a television interview with Catherine Switzer who had run the marathon in nineteen sixty seven by registering as a man. Switzer introduced release to the as the winner of the marathon in possibly a new American women's running record holder. First Switzer asked Ruis. How many marathons she'd run before. Ruis responded that this was her second after the New York marathon only a few months before with a time of two hours and fifty. Six minutes. Switzer asked what is attributed her twenty minute improvement to between pauses to sneeze and cough. We simply said she didn't know like bill. Rogers Switzer began to feel doubt so. She tried to dig deeper. She asked if she'd been training with a lot of heavy intervals. Workouts designed to increase speed res laughing replied that she didn't even know what intervals were. Switzer's unease was evident in her expression when she ended the interview noting that rees was a mystery woman who seemingly evaded all of the marathons checkpoints on her way to victory by the time. The two winners were brought in front of a group of reporters for a news conference. The confusion over releases out of nowhere. Victory had turned into suspicion. Reporters followed Switzer's lead and peppered Ruis with questions Ruiz's answer is left the reporters more skeptical than they'd been before she said she'd only been running long distances for a year and a half didn't have a coach or advisor and didn't know what time splits were to explain why she didn't seem tired after running an entire marathon. Ruiz said she'd gotten up with a lot of energy that morning. When asked how it was possible that no other female runner had spotted her during the race. She offered three explanations I. She had paid herself off of the men seconds. She was so new to the sport that no one knew who she was and finally her short hair must've made the other runners assumes he was male. The reporters were now certain that something was wrong with Rosie Res Inter victory by the time the final marathon runner crossed the finish line. Just over an hour. After Ruiz's finish rumors and speculation were spreading rapidly. Adding fuel to the fire were comments from Jacqueline Gero and Patty Lions stating that. Neither of them saw any woman pass them during the race. After the press conference Bill Rodgers went right to the Boston Marathon. Race director will clooney and told him that there was no way. Ruis had run the race. Clooney knew he had to handle the situation carefully he was concerned about the effect of cheating. Scandal might have on the reputation of the Boston Marathon. A few hours after the race cloney met with Rosie Ruiz at her hotel so she could tell her side of the story where we brought along her friends. Steve Merrick the president of a running club. She joined the week before the marathon. Who claimed he could vouch for? Release Ruis defiantly maintained that she ran the whole race and won it fair and square merrick backed up Ruiz's story as much as he could specifically noting that he saw her at the starting line in Hopkinton however neither Merrick. Not anyone else saw release at any other point in the race. Clooney left the hotel that night unsure of the truth. Ruiz was convincing. But so as Rogers. Only one thing was clear the Boston. Marathon was now embroiled in a major controversy and it was up to Clooney and the Boston Athletic Association to find out what really happened while. Clooney began investigating the marathon winners. Victory Lap continued normally early the next morning on April Twenty Second Nineteen Eighty Rosie. Ruiz and Bill Rodgers were brought to the set of local. Tv show called good day live to be interviewed about their wins. Rogers uneasiness about her. We had overtaken his own personal satisfaction about winning the race. He wasn't just concerned. That Jacqueline Guerrero had been cheated out of a medal. Like we'll clooney. He was worried about the effect. A scandal like this might have on the sport a whole before going onto the set. Rogers pulled Ruis aside and privately delivered a stern warning. He told her that if anything had gone wrong during the marathon she needed to admit it as soon as possible ruis hesitated. Tears appeared at the corners of her eyes for a split second. Rogers believed that we was going to confess instead. Released shook her head and crying. Repeatedly stated that she'd won legitimately Rogers decided to let it go for the moment and the two went ahead with the TV appearance by the time of their TV interview. The whispers about release at grown ladder and suspicion escalated the TV host citing an article written by a running expert in the New York. Post asked both Ruis Ann Rogers about the reported belief that her improvement from the New York. Marathon to Boston was physically impossible. Rogers answered diplomatically. Saying that while improvement is possible. He couldn't conceive of a twenty minute improvement. He then said that Ruis would need to resolve. These questions. Ruis herself remained quiet outside the TV studio. The controversy only mounted that morning race director will cloney announced that he had opened an investigation into the allegations against Roe zero. We's it wouldn't be an easy or straightforward task to determine whether Rosie Ruiz cheated the Boston. Marathon didn't record the times of every individual runner as they reached one of the races. Numerous checkpoints instead. The marathon only recorded the numbers of the first one hundred runners at each checkpoint since the first one hundred runners were all male. None of the women's times were recorded at any checkpoint. Instead of relying on checkpoint evidence Clooney would need to closely review recordings of the TV broadcast an eye witness testimony a team of experts including Katherine Switzer reviewed three sets video from the race and couldn't identify Rosie Ruiz on any of them nor could they find her. We is on one of the informal lists of the top five women runners at any point in the race as the scrutiny intensified Rosie. Ruiz returned home to New York City but she couldn't escape the controversy. The press was beginning to hound. Her now explicitly questioning the validity of her victory. The questions only got louder as the story grew into a nationwide scandal. The concerns led the New York marathon to open their own investigation into releases. Twenty third place finish reporters dug into Rosie Ruiz. His life story traveling to Miami and Nebraska searching for clues. They didn't find much. Though classmates. At Wayne State College did remember that. Ruiz was an avid jogger. Her we sought refuge in her apartment from the constant media. Attention but dog had reporters still followed some even resorted sneaking past the building security guards to go directly to release his door eventually released into roommates abandoned the apartment and move somewhere secret their release hunker down and try to ride out the storm with the constant media attention and the looming threat of disqualification release felt as though she were living in a nightmare throughout every interaction with a roommate's friends or reporters who manage to track down. Ruiz never wavered. She stuck to her story. She had run the entire race. Meanwhile investigations continued in both Boston in New York to determine if she was lying in Boston officials and reporters interviewed the runners finished next to none of them saw her during the race in New York officials reviewed videotape of every runner. That crossed the finish line and couldn't find Ruis. None of the mounting circumstantial evidence was enough. However for Boston. Marathon director will clooney to disqualify. Rosie ries with so much attention on the marathon and the investigation. He felt as though he needed proof beyond the shadow of a doubt he needed something. More concrete like clear eyewitness testimony. John Faulkner Harvard Senior was jogging by the marathon with his hand on April twenty. First as they went past the crowd at Kenmore Square they witnessed a woman in a yellow shirt running. Strangely through the crowd she entered the race in its final mile. Faulkner didn't think much of it at the time assuming that someone would stop her or realized she jumped into the race. The next morning faulkner opened his copy of the Boston Globe and saw photograph of Rosie Ruiz on the front page announcing her as the winner of the marathon. It was the same woman he saw jump into the race. Faulkner initially didn't want to involve himself but after cajoling from his roommates he finally agreed to call the Boston Globe. And tell a reporter what he'd seen. Meanwhile in New York another eyewitness reached out. Susan Moro the woman who had befriended released during the New York. Marathon was watching the news when report about the Boston. Marathon came on. Moro immediately recognized the marathon winner as the same woman. She'd met on the subway as the news. Report continued covering the controversy. Around Louise's finish Moro began to feel nervous. She didn't know what to do. After some deliberation moral decided to contact the New York Times the next day on Wednesday April twenty third. The Boston Globe published John faulkners eyewitness account early that morning reporters. A news vans arrived at Harvard eager to interview him that night. The New York Marathon director told reporters that he didn't believe Ruis could even run one mile at the pace. She claimed to have run an entire marathon with evidence against her mounting Rosie. Ruiz called a press conference the next day. Her only ally. Steve Merrick stood beside her and warned reporters ahead of time that he'd end the press conference if it turned into a carnival. Susan Morrow attended the press conference at the invitation of New York Times reporter. The reporter asked Mario if Ruis was the woman she'd seen riding the subway during the New York. Marathon more said without question. It was the same woman as cameras snapped. Rosie Ruis stood in front of a skeptical crowd of reporters. Despite Merrick's warning the reporters were noisy and hostile given the published accounts of John Faulkner. Many of the reporters expected release to confess admit that she cheated and end the entire controversy instead with a slight smirk on her face. Rosie Ruis once again. Insisted that she'd run the race moreover. She blamed the media for the controversy claiming their coverage was unfair and that any unknown runner. Who won the marathon would be subjected to the same scrutiny and skepticism that she was although Ruis continued to vociferously deny the allegations of cheating. The tide was already turning against her and it wouldn't be long before her entire house of cards came tumbling down. Thanks again for listening to sports criminals. We'll be back next week with part two. Rosie ruas story. We'll see how her story eventually crumbled and how her life was affected after the truth was revealed. You can find all episodes of sports criminals and all other park has originals for free on spotify. Not only spotify already. Have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all your favorite podcast originals like sports criminals for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream sports criminals on spotify just open the APP tap browse and type sports criminals in the search bar. And don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see next time. Sports Criminals was created by Max Cutler. And as a podcast studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler Sound Design by Stephen Davies with production assistance by Ron Shapiro in Carleen Madden. This episode of Sports Criminals was written by Ryan Lee with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon and stars. Tim Johnson and Carter Roy.

Rosie Ruiz Rosie Ruis New York Marathon New York City Boston Marathon Boston Finish Line Rosie Bill Rogers Rogers Rosie Ries Rees Katherine Switzer ruis race director Rosie Ruis Administrative Assi Ruis reporter Massachusetts Hopkinton Bill Rodgers
Rosie Ruiz Pt. 1

Sports Criminals

42:28 min | 8 months ago

Rosie Ruiz Pt. 1

"On the morning of April twenty first nineteen eighty the eighty fourth annual Boston marathon began in Hopkinton Massachusetts over five thousand runners in nearly half. A million spectators gathered for the big race about two hours. After the marathon began. The first runners began to finish. The first was as expected. The number one male runner in the World Bill Rodgers as he crossed the finish line. Rogers won his third straight Boston marathon with a time of two hours. Twelve minutes and eleven seconds twenty minutes later the first woman approached the finish line fans stood up expecting to see famed Canadian runner Jacqueline Garo instead. They saw an unknown runner that not even the most obsessive running expert recognized it was Rosie Ruiz. A twenty six year old administrative assistant from New York running in her second ever marathon. Ruis looked exhausted her arms flailing wildly as if she was swimming her way to the finish line when Ruiz crossed the finish line. The led timer listed her time as two hours. Thirty one minutes and fifty six seconds. She hadn't just won the race. She'd also set the fastest women's Marathon in American history. Ruis grimace and smiled. As she finished the race she had seemingly accomplished the impossible coming out of nowhere to win. The most celebrated long distance running event in the world. But it was all a lie. Rosie Ruiz hadn't set a record time. She hadn't even run the race. Welcome to sports. Criminals Park has original every week. We dive into the dark side of sports history and look at athletes who not only broke the law but broke the rules and covenants of their sport will also uncover how their actions impacted the history of the sport they played. I'm Tim Johnson. And I'm Corduroy. You can find episodes of sports criminals. And all of their par- cast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to PODCASTS TO STREAM. Sports criminals for free on spotify. Just open the APP anti sports criminals in the search bar at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. But it's no how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast in twitter at podcast network today we're discussing. Rosie Ruiz who came out of nowhere to win the Nineteen Eighty Boston Marathon. Only for it to be revealed later that she won the race by cheating this week will explore Ruiz's beginnings and how? She lied to win the Boston. Marathon next week will cover the fallout of the marathon. And how his life changed. Afterwards Rosie Ruiz's early life is shrouded in mystery. What's known as that? She was born in Havana Cuba on June. Twenty First Nineteen fifty three when she was eight years old she and her mother moved to Miami Florida. Miami felt like an entirely new and alien world to younger. We's she was overwhelmed and isolated living in a new country and city surrounded by a language. She didn't speak. She started running both as a way to escape her anxiety in as a way to come to terms with her new surroundings sometime later she was separated from her mother and sent to Hollywood Florida to live with her aunts and uncles again. She took to running to cope. She began running cross country in high school but had to stop when she suffered a knee injury that required surgery even running. The one thing she clung to was taken away from her. After high school she left Florida to study music at Wayne. State College in Nebraska. It was another new world for her but she learned to adapt one year into her college career. Reza's life was thrown for a loop. When she was involved in a serious car crash. She suffered a blow to the head in the accident. It left her with. Chronic severe headaches and occasional blackouts these lingered far longer than could be explained by the crash so in late. Nineteen seventy three. She flew back to Miami where doctors could examiner after a battery of tests. They found the cause of headaches a tumor the size of Tangerine embedded in her skull. Shockingly the doctors told her that the tumor had been there since she was born at Twenty Years. Old Ruis underwent brain surgery to remove the mass. Luckily the growth turned out to be benign in nineteen seventy seven after graduating from college. Roy's decided not to return to Miami instead. She threw herself into yet another new city. The Big Apple at this point relieves was comfortable with constant moves in new surroundings and even liked it. She moved into a high rise apartment near Times Square with two roommates and got a job as an administrative assistant for a metal trading company but shortly after she moved to New York. She had her first brush with the law in late. Nineteen seventy seven release allegedly stole credit cards from an acquaintance apartment in racked up. Fifteen hundred dollars in false charges the acquaintance lodged a complaint with the NYPD but Ruiz paid restitution and the charges were dropped compounding. Her legal issues were continuing health issues. In September of nineteen seventy eight Ruiz's doctors discovered a small defect Inter Skull Leftover from the first brain surgery. She needed another operation. So a plastic plate could be inserted in her skull throughout her life. Ruiz had turned to running to cope with their problems. So in February nineteen seventy nine when she finally felt physically well. Enough twenty-four-year-old Rosie. Ruiz once again began running. She managed to log a hundred miles a week either running through central park or by training on an exercise bike in her apartment after a few months running. Ruiz decided she was ready to put herself to the test. She wanted to run a marathon. A marathon is a grueling long distance. Run of twenty six miles and three hundred eighty five yards. It takes its name. Inspiration from the legend of Philipe vs. Who In four ninety? Bc ran from the battle of marathon to the city of Athens to announce the Greeks victory over the Persians. The distance between those two points about twenty six miles became the basis of the modern marathon. The sport was invented for the first Olympic Games in April eighteen. Ninety six in Athens Greece by the Mid Twentieth Century completing a marathon had become one of the most prestigious feats an athlete could accomplish and Rosie ries wanted to prove herself an accomplished athlete. It was a huge jump for her while she had been taking running seriously. Ruis was not an experienced long distance runner. She'd likely never run anything close to marathon length but she was determined to try. Ruis tried to fill out an application for the New York marathon but discovered that the deadline had passed. She contacted the marathon's organizers and ask for special dispensation claiming she was dying of brain cancer convinced by her story. The marathon's organizers allowed her to turn in the application late on the application Ruis listed her expected finishing time as just over four hours about average for marathon and a very respectable time for a first time runner. On the morning of October Twenty First Nineteen seventy-nine Ruis arrived at Fort Wadsworth on Staten Island to compete in the New York City Marathon. It was the largest New York marathon since the event's inception in nineteen seventy with eleven thousand five hundred thirty three runners including forty-six hundred first timers like ruis an estimated crowd of two point. Five million spectators gathered along the race route to cheer the runners on Res Checked in at Fort Wadsworth received a number and took her place waiting among the massive crowd of runners at nine. Am The starting cannon fired. The race was on to give herself out. Ruis asked her roommate to meet her eight miles into the race to check if she wanted to drop out. When Ruis reached the eight mile mark she looked up and saw her roommate waving her from the crowd. Ruis shook her head telling her roommate that she felt good and was going to finish. She was not going to quit somewhere near the ten mile. Mark near Nineteenth Street in Brooklyn or we had a change of heart either due to injury or due to exhaustion. She walked off the course and left the race. That didn't mean she had given up on her goal of finishing however far from it. She had just decided to take a little shortcut. Ruiz descended into the subway system. And got onto the one train. Going North into Manhattan. She took a seat and kept her head down trying not to draw any attention to herself with thousands of people participating in the New York Marathon. It wouldn't have seemed that unusual to see a runner on a train. After a few stops release felt more comfortable and struck up a conversation with a woman named Susan Morrow who was sitting next to her as it turned out the two of them were going to the same place. The marathon's finish line in central park. Ruiz told tomorrow that she twisted her ankle at the ten mile mark of the marathon but wanted to cheer on the other runners at the end of the race. Moro was headed to see her friend. Crossed the finish line ruis and her new friend got off the subway at Columbus Circle and made their way into central park. Rees was noticeably limping and would occasionally lean on Morro shoulders. They pushed through the crowd and police barricades to get to the finish line as they made their way through. The crowd. Ruis grabbed a can of juice and poured it over her head. Moro thought that was odd but reason that it was a quirky runners. Habit when the two of them reached the final barricade. Ruiz declared herself an injured runner and was helped into the medical tent. Then are we told the medical staff at the marathon that she'd already completed the race. They credited her a time of two hours. Fifty six minutes and twenty nine seconds ranking her twenty third place among all women that time also qualified her for the Boston Marathon one of the most famous and celebrated running events in the world after briefly receiving treatment on her ankle. Ruis emerged from the medical tent and found Moro. They exchanged contact information. Andrew we suggested the two could have lunch the next week then. Ruiz disappeared into the crowd. Loved everything about the marathon the thrill of the racist beginning the Camaraderie with other runners and the victory of finishing the only part she didn't like was having to actually run all twenty six miles but she had seemingly found a way around that when she returned to work. The following Monday release received a hero's welcome. Her coworkers were shocked and impressed by her achievement and res Soaked in the attention her boss who also happen to be. A runner was particularly impressed after finding out that her time qualified her for the Boston marathon he generously offered to pay for a weekend trip to compete in April her. We graciously accepted but despite her supposed successes all is not well for Rosie Ruiz in the days and weeks following her surprisingly strong finish in the New York Marathon. She began to feel increasingly nervous. Her fraudulent act hadn't just impressed her roommates and friends. It had also created expectations among her co workers and her boss but now had to be met. She couldn't risk letting them all down even worse if she performed badly in Boston she'd risked revealing that her New York Marathon. Finish with a lie so she trained with the intention of running the full race in addition to wanting to prove herself rees also knew that her cheat in. Newark wasn't guaranteed to work in Boston. Which was a more prestigious race with greater media attention and scrutiny in the five months between the New York Marathon and the Boston Marathon? Ruis ran as much as she could. Outside of work as the race approached in the spring of one thousand nine hundred eighty however rees likely knew she wasn't ready. The truth was she wouldn't be able to legitimately come close to the two hours fifty six minutes. She supposedly accomplished in New York and it was even more likely that she wouldn't be able to finish the race at all but she couldn't quit. She had to see it through on April twentieth. Nineteen eighty the night before the marathon. Ruiz called her mother in Miami. She asked her mother to pray for her and said that she needed to win. Her mother applied that she always prayed for the next morning. Rees left her hotel and walk to the starting area of the Nineteen Eighty Boston Marathon. It would be the most consequential day of her entire life. When we come back Rosie Ruis takes on the Boston Marathon. It's Carter. I am happy to announce the launch of our new podcast series supernatural. With Ashley. Flowers has been a great success. It's a show where all very proud of here at podcast and we thank you for listening. If you haven't had a chance to tune in yet I definitely recommend you head over to the supernatural with Ashley Hours. Feed and start following today every Wednesday Ashley. Flowers takes on a different crime or mystery where the most fitting theory isn't always the most conventional where the deaths of two Brazilian men a result of making contact with spirits on Mars. Get closer to the truth than ever before. Regarding the mystifying lead masks case did four friends have a highly unusual encounter during a camping trip in Maine sort through the out of this world circumstances surrounding the allegations incident. And who and what were responsible for the unexplained death of Australia's Somerton man dig deeper into the peculiar details and poetry involved in the case. Each week Ashley takes on the strange and surreal to explain some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences. That's already one of my favorite shows and I hope you check it out. Follow supernatural with Ashley. Flowers free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now Back to the story as twenty six year old Rosie. Ruiz stepped up to the starting line of the Nineteen Eighty Boston Marathon. She felt a huge amount of pressure to perform. Not only did she feel a personal pressure to replicate her supposedly great finish in the one thousand nine hundred seventy nine New York marathon but she also felt as though she was carrying the burden of the women who came before her. She couldn't let herself do significantly worse in Boston. Let alone fail to finish and risk revealing that. Her performance in New York was ally too much was at stake her reputation her job and possibly even the reputation of women's long distance running the Boston. Marathon was one of the first races established after the eighteen ninety six Olympics and was first held one year later on April. Nineteenth 1897 quickly established itself as one of the most respected and celebrated running events the world and remains today. The world's oldest annual marathon marathons I began. They were only open to male runners and it took nearly seventy five years for the Boston Marathon to be open to women in nineteen sixty six twenty four old. Roberta Gibbs submitted an application for the Boston marathon but was rejected by the race director. Who stated that women were physiologically incapable of running long distances? Give refuse to accept that instead. She took a bus from San Diego to Boston and hid in the bushes as the race started. After a few moments and wearing a bulky sweater she surreptitiously jumped into the crowd of runners within a few minutes. The runners around realize that Gabe was a woman gave her their support. After they told Gibbs that they wouldn't let the race organizers. Throw her out give took offer sweatshirt and revealed her gender by the end of the marathon. She was a celebrity. The Governor of Massachusetts arrived to shake her hand as she crossed the finish line. Still the race refused to allow women but give had inspired them to run it anyway. The next year twenty nine year old Katherine Switzer registered as a male to get a number and penny then finished the race. Despite race officials attempt to physically remove her from the race. Thanks to the efforts of women like give and Switzer the Amateur Athletics Union finally permitted women to running marathons in nineteen seventy two that year. Eight women started the race and all finished by the time Rosie. Ruiz arrived in Boston in one. Thousand nine hundred eighty. The number of women running had risen to four hundred fifty six still a fraction compared to the five thousand male runners when Rosie ries woke up on the morning of April twenty first nineteen eighty. She may have intended on running the race legitimately despite her lies about finishing in the New York Marathon. She might have still been conflicted about doing the same in Boston and may have wanted to prove to herself that she could run the entire race but cheating was always an option. The weather was warm that morning when Rosie Ruiz left her hotel. She took the train to the suburb of. Hopkinton where she met. Four hundred and fifty five other women and over five thousand men at the starting line of the marathon. She received the official number W fifty signifying that. She was the fiftieth ranked woman in the race. Thanks to her supposed finish in New York Jacqueline Guerrero. A Canadian runner was the favourite to win the women's race. She'd won the National Capital Marathon Ottawa. The year before and many of the spectators in Boston that day were there to see if Garo could win another Gero stiffest competition was with American Patti. Lyons who came in second in the New York Marathon. Twenty six year old. Rosie Ruis was not on anyone to radar despite her high rank and her strong finish in New York but ruis was there to win and was willing to do whatever it took to achieve. First place the starting gun was fired. Fans cheered as Rosy Ruis and a five thousand other runners set off on the twenty six mile journey shoulder to shoulder in a massive swarm. It wasn't long before her legs and feet to tire. Her breathing became more labored. Deep down understood that Oliver Training hadn't truly prepared her for a full marathon. She was never going to finish all twenty six miles not long into the race. Release had a momentous decision to make. She could admit her own shortcomings and quit but she thought about the consequences. She might face what would happen if her boss who paid for her to run in the Boston. Marathon found out. She hadn't even made it half way. The other option was to cheat sheet. Already gotten away with the New York and believes she could easily get away with it again so she made her decision. She turned in abruptly. Jog off the race route. Just like she had in New York for we took a shortcut after exiting the race release found a quiet place to wait for an hour staying as far away from view. She could when enough time had passed to make her finishing time believable. She made her way to the nearest train station and took the hour long train. Ride to Kenmore Square and Bruins is more careful than she'd been in New York. She kept to herself and didn't strike up a conversation with anyone as she boarded the Green Line train. The train was crowded and releases heart pounded as it crawled toward Boston. Desperately hoping that no one would make eye contact and ask her about the marathon number on her shirt. No one did ruis made it to Boston. Without being noticed. When Ruiz reached her destination she left the train and headed for the finish line slipping through the busy crowd where we started running as she approached the race. Just over two hours after the race began rosie. Ruiz emerged from the crowd of cheering spectators and seamlessly merged with the marathon runners. She glanced behind her then to her left and right none of the spectators nor any of the other runners seemed to recognize that anything was a myth. However we's had rejoined the race far ahead of any other female runners. It's possible that she simply missed judged her jump into the marathon however it's also possible that like she told her mother she felt as though she needed to win and and tried her best to do exactly that after jumping onto the course ruis reportedly ran the last mile of the race. She built up enough sweat to look convincing enough to most spectators and the enthusiastic crowd cheered her on as she stumbled past the finish line. Exactly two hours thirty one minutes and fifty six seconds after the race began rosie. Ruiz had fought her way through car. Crashes Brain surgeries and numerous personal problems to win the most prestigious running event in the world. It was no longer Rosie ries administrative assistant. She was now Rosie Ruis Boston marathon champion after crossing the finish line released put on a good show and played. The part of a marathon runner exhausted looking. She nearly collapsed into the arms of two police officers. Photographers and TV. Cameramen FOCUS THEIR LENSES. On the victorious. Ruis as she limped with the officers help away from the finish line. Other runners congratulated Ruiz as she passed which she acknowledged with a smile. Ruis made it to the victory stand where race officials congratulated her and placed a laurel wreath on her head suddenly energetic ruis wave to the crowd in beamed taking in all the attention. She had gotten away with her lie. Rosie Ruis had become in the blink of an eye a famed marathon champion. Three minutes after Rosie. Ruiz Finished Jacqueline. Gareau cross the finish line and was met with a polite cheer from the crowd. Caro- immediately noticed that the cheers weren't as loud as she expected. She looked up to the winner. Stand and saw Rosie Ruiz with a wreath and a metal and was confused. She hadn't seen her we's at any point in the entire race. Garo finished with a time of two hours. Thirty four minutes and twenty eight seconds. A new personal best but there was no fanfare or Laurel Wreath for her no prize for second place. We had beaten the women's record by nearly three minutes on the victory. Stage Rosie Ries took place alongside men's winner bill. Rogers Rogers took one look at release and furrowed his brow. He expected to be standing alongside. Jacqueline Guerrero enro- the first words Rogers said to Ruiz were simply. Who are you as Ruis? Innocently introduced herself. Rogers took a closer look at her and quickly realized that something was fishy. Ruis was wearing a thick shirt with sleeves. Despite the fact that all elite long distance runners preferred thin sleeveless shirts even stranger. There were no sweat stains on her uniform. She didn't seem nearly as exhausted as Rogers knew she would be after finishing a marathon on top of all that we simply didn't physically look like she was in shape to be a marathon runner however it was too late to stop the celebrations Massachusetts Governor. Edward King shook ruis and Rogers hands as he awarded them their medals and congratulated them on their victories as the two winners stood together on the podium. Rogers made small talk with Ruiz. He asked her what her splits where and was met with a blank stare for. We didn't know that splits were harassed time divided into smaller parts that confirmed it for Rogers. She definitely hadn't run the race. Rogers the race organizers and members of the press. Were beginning to realize what had happened but ruis for the moment was victorious. She was on top of the world down in the crowd. Bill Rodgers brother. Charlie watched and begin to feel physically. Ill He also realized that Ruiz's didn't look like a marathon runner and that there must have been a mistake as the medal ceremony concluded. Charlie set off to find a race official to tell them of his suspicions within five minutes of visas victory. The organizers of the marathon knew something had gone terribly wrong when we come back Rosie. Ruiz faces serious questions about her shocking marathon. Victory now back to the story on April Twenty First Nineteen Eighty Twenty six year old administrative assistant rosier. We's came out of nowhere to win the Boston Marathon. It was a great story. An amateur runner with only one other race tour name. Who beat the odds to win the marathon? It seemed too good to be true because it was rosie. Ruiz hadn't run the marathon at all she had cheated. Suspicion started to mount immediately after we cross the Finish Line. It started with a male winner. Bill Rodgers who could sense? That hadn't run twenty six miles a few minutes. After Ruiz was given her medal she was pulled into a television interview. With Catherine Switzer. Who had run the marathon in nineteen sixty seven by registering as a man? Switzer introduced released to the world as the winner of the marathon in possibly a new American women's running record holder. First Switzer ash-trees. How many marathons she'd run before. Ruis responded that this was her second after the New York Marathon. Only a few months before with a time of two hours. Fifty six minutes Switzer asked what Ruiz's attributed her twenty minute improvement to between pauses to sneeze and cough. We simply said she didn't know like bill. Rogers Switzer began to feel doubt so she tried to take deeper. She asked Ruiz if she'd been training with a lot of heavy intervals. Workouts designed to increase speed ruis laughing replied that she didn't even know what intervals were. Switzer's unease was evident in her expression when she ended the interview noting that Ruiz was a mystery woman who seemingly evaded all of the marathons checkpoints on her way to victory by the time. The two winners were brought in front of a group of reporters for a news. Conference that confusion over releases out of nowhere. Victory had turned into suspicion. Reporters followed Switzer's lead and peppered Ruis questions releases answer is left the reporters more skeptical than they'd been before. She said she'd only been running long distances for a year and a half didn't have a coach or advisor and didn't know what time splits were to explain why she didn't seem tired after running an entire marathon. Ruiz said she'd gotten up with a lot of energy that morning. When asked how it was possible that no other female runner had spotted her during the race. She offered three explanations. I she had passed herself off of the men seconds. She was so new to the sport that no one knew who she was and finally her short hair must've made the other runners assumes he was male the reporters were now certain that something was wrong with Rosie Ruis Inter victory by the time the final marathon runner crossed the finish line. Just over an hour. After Ruiz's finish rumors and speculation were spreading rapidly. Adding fuel to the fire were comments from Jacqueline Guiraud and Patty Lions stating that. Neither of them saw any woman pass them during the race. After the press conference Bill Rodgers went right to the Boston Marathon. Race director will clooney and told him that there was no way. Ruis had run the race. Clooney knew he had to handle the situation carefully. He was concerned about the effect cheating scandal might have on the reputation of the Boston Marathon. A few hours after the race clooney met with Rosie Ruiz at her hotel so she could tell her side of the story or we brought along her friend. Steve Merrick the president of a running club join the week before the marathon. Who claimed he could vouch for? Release Ruis defiantly maintained that she ran the whole race and won it fair and square merrick backed up Ruiz's story as much as he could specifically noting that he saw her at the starting line in Hopkinton however neither America nor anyone else saw release at any other point in the race. Clooney left the hotel that night. Unsure of the truth release was convincing but so is Rogers. Only one thing was clear. The Boston marathon was now embroiled in a major controversy and it was up to Clooney in the Boston Athletic Association to find out what really happened while cloney began investigating the marathon winners. Victory Lap continued normally early the next morning on April Twenty Second Nineteen Eighty Rosie. Ruiz and Bill Rodgers were brought to the set of a local. Tv show called good day live to be interviewed about their wins. Rogers uneasiness about Ruis had overtaken his own personal satisfaction about winning the race. He wasn't just concerned. That Jacqueline Guiraud had been cheated out of a metal. Like Wilk Loni. He was worried about the effect scandal. Like this might have on the sport as a whole before going onto the set. Rogers pulled me aside and privately delivered a stern warning. He told her that if anything had gone wrong during the marathon she needed to admit it as soon as possible where we hesitated tears appeared at the corners of her eyes for a split second. Rogers believed that Ruiz was going to confess instead. Release shook her head and crying. Repeatedly stated that she'd won legitimately Rogers decided to let it go for the moment and the two went ahead with the TV appearance by the time of their TV interview. The whispers about Ruiz at grown ladder and suspicion escalated the TV host citing an article written by a running expert in the New York. Post asked both Ruis Ann Rogers about the reported belief that improvement from the New York. Marathon to Boston was physically impossible. Rogers answered diplomatically. Saying that while improvement is possible. He couldn't conceive of a twenty minute improvement. He then said that Ruis would need to resolve. These questions. Ruis herself remained quiet outside the TV studio. The controversy only mounted that morning race director will clooney announced that he had opened an investigation into the allegations against Rosier we's it wouldn't be an easy or straightforward task to determine whether rosaries cheated the Boston Marathon. Didn't record the times of every individual runner as they reached one of the races. Numerous checkpoints instead. The marathon only recorded the numbers of the first one hundred runners at each checkpoint since the first one hundred runners were all male. None of the women's times were recorded at any checkpoint. Instead of relying on checkpoint evidence Clooney would need to closely review recordings of the TV broadcast in eyewitness testimony a team of experts including Katherine Switzer reviewed three sets of video from the race and couldn't identify Rosie Ruiz on any of them nor could they find Ruis on one of the informal lists the top five women runners at any point in the race has the scrutiny intensified Rosie. Ruiz returned home to New York City but she couldn't escape the controversy. The press was beginning to hound. Her now explicitly questioning the validity of her picked. The questions only got louder as the story grew into a nationwide scandal. The concerns led the New York marathon to open their own investigation. Internal wheezes twenty third place finish reporters dug into Rosie Ruiz's life story traveling to Miami and Nebraska searching for clues. They didn't find much. Though classmates. At Wayne State College did remember that. Ruis was an avid jogger. Her we sought refuge in her apartment from the constant media. Attention but dog had reporters still followed some even resorted to sneaking past the building security guards to go directly to Ruiz's door eventually released into roommates abandoned the apartment and move somewhere secret their hunker down and try to ride out the storm with the constant media attention and the looming threat of disqualification release. Felt as though she were living in a nightmare throughout every interaction with her roommate's friends or reporters who manage to track her down Ruis never wavered. She stuck to her story. She had run the entire race. Meanwhile investigations continued in both Boston in New York to determine if she was lying in Boston officials and reporters interviewed the runners who've finished next her. We's none of them saw her. During the race in New York officials reviewed videotape of every runner. That crossed the finish line and couldn't find Ruis. None of the mounting circumstantial evidence was enough. However for Boston Marathon Director Wilk Loni to disqualify Rosie Ruis with so much attention on the marathon and the investigation. He felt as though he needed beyond the shadow of a doubt he needed something. More concrete like clear eyewitness testimony. John Faulkner Harvard Senior was jogging by the marathon with his friend. On April twenty. First as they went past the crowd at Kenmore Square they witnessed a woman in a yellow shirt running. Strangely through the crowd she entered the race in its final mile. Faulkner didn't think much of it at the time. Assuming that someone would stop her realize she jumped into the race. The next morning faulkner opened his copy of the Boston Globe and saw photograph of Rosie Ruiz on the front page announcing her as the winner of the marathon. It was the same woman he saw jump into the race. Faulkner initially didn't want to involve himself but after cajoling from his roommates he finally agreed to call the Boston Globe and tell a reporter he'd seen meanwhile in New York another eyewitness reached out. Susan Moro the woman who had befriended Ruis during the New York. Marathon was watching the news when report about the Boston. Marathon came on. Moreo immediately recognized the marathon winner as the same woman. She'd met on the subway as the news. Report continued covering the controversy around Ruiz's. Finish moral began to feel nervous. She didn't know what to do. After some deliberation moral decided to contact the New York Times the next day on Wednesday April twenty third. The Boston Globe published John faulkners eyewitness account early that morning. Reporters News vans arrived at Harvard eager to interview him that night. The New York Marathon director told reporters that he didn't believe Ruis could even run one mile at the pace. She claimed to have run entire marathon with evidence against term mounting Rosie. Ruiz called a press conference the next day. Her only ally. Steve Merrick stood beside her and warned reporters ahead of time that he'd end the press conference if it turned into a carnival. Susan Morrow attended the press conference at the invitation of New York Times reporter. The reporter asked Mario. Ruiz was the woman she'd seen riding the subway during the New York. Marathon Monroe said without question. It was the same woman as cameras snapped Rosie. Ruiz stood in front of a skeptical crowd of reporters. Despite Merrick's warning the reporters were noisy and hostile given the published accounts of John Faulkner. Many of the reporters expected release to confess admit that she cheated and end the entire controversy instead with slight smirk on her face. Rosie Ruis once again insisted that she'd run the race. Moreover she blamed the media for the controversy claiming their coverage was unfair and that any unknown runner. Who won the marathon would be subjected to the same scrutiny and skepticism that she was although Ruiz continued to vociferously denied the allegations of cheating. The tide was already turning against her and it wouldn't be long before her entire house of cards came tumbling down. Thanks again for listening to sports criminals. We'll be back next week with part two of Rosie Reza's story. We'll see how her story eventually crumbled. Our life was affected. After the truth was revealed. You can find all episodes of sports criminals and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only spotify already. Have all your favorite music. But now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all your favorite podcast originals like sports criminals for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream sports criminals on spotify just open the APP tap browse and type sports criminals in the search bar. And don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Sports Criminals was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler Sound Design by Stephen Davies with production assistance by Ron Shapiro in Carleen Madden. This episode of Sports Criminals was written by Ryan Lee with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon and stars Tim Johnson and Carter Roy listeners. Don't forget to check out the new podcast. Original series supernatural with Ashley. Flowers every Wednesday. Take a deep dive into the strange and surreal to find the truth behind. Some of the world's most bizarre crimes trust me. These episodes are weird and wonderful search for supernatural with Ashley Flowers in the spotify APP and listen free today.

Rosie Ruiz Rosie Ruis Boston Marathon New York Marathon New York City Boston Finish Line Rosie Rosie ries Rogers Rogers Katherine Switzer race director spotify Rosie Reza Ruis Marathon Monroe National Capital Marathon Otta Miami Jacqueline Garo Massachusetts
The Murder Of The Rev. James Reeb

White Lies

51:35 min | 1 year ago

The Murder Of The Rev. James Reeb

"Three men, eat dinner in a crowded restaurant and unfamiliar city when they're done eating two of them take turns using the pay phone to make long distance phone calls to their families. One walks outside to smoke a cigar years later he'd recall how quiet it was sounded the streetlamps coming on. And when the phone calls are made they all stand in front of the restaurant and the approaching darkness. They don't know this place. They don't know the street. We've got a meeting to get back to what's the best way back to where they've come from should they turn left or right? This is nineteen sixty five these men are strangers here. Northern men in a segregated southern city white men standing in front of a black restaurant, three men and a decision to make. There would have been no way for them to know that what will happen, next will change everything that it will lead to the murder of one of these three men and radically altered, allies of the other two that this moment will ripple down through the generations, ways seeing an unseen affecting the children and the grandchildren of all the men who converged on the street that night. And it ripples far past those families in this town news of the murder will spread leading to outrage and protests around the nation. Even the president will get involved invoking the murder in a nationally televised speech to announce one of the most significant bills of the twentieth, century. But for everything that would happen after the decision to turn left or right. The murder has remained unsolved. No one has ever been held to account. Has created a lot of hate in the white community. Man who resented his coming to join nego civil rights demonstrations. I remember the sound that club hitting gyms. I don't remember. I don't won't do it. Pale. And you get bench to leave it alone. I didn't just go sit with nobody on the after at half on I kept my mouth shut. We're gonna die. A lot of things they knew back and those days could come back to home stage. Limitation murder never runs out like a treatment is if you could on one brands don't mean down, tree, going bad just to grow another brand. We need to find the root of this. From NPR. This is white lies show in which we search for the root of all this. I'm Andrew Beck race. And I'm Bradley the story, we're going to tell you about what happened on the street that night. And what came after about how a lie took root working steadily over the years to overshadow the truth. And it's about what happened when we came back to the same city. Some fifty years later to call ally. The lie to untangle the history from the Follivy and finally solve this murder. Support for white lies and the following message come from Alfred a cannot publisher of furious hours by Casey set which explores the case of an Alabama serial killer and the unpublished book that Harper Lee worked on after tequila Mockingbird, a murderous preacher, the vigilante who shot him the lawyer who defended them. Both the true crime story that consumed Harper -ly available now wherever books are sold. Support also comes from ridge Wallid, the ridge is the wallet reimagined it's innovative design uses premium materials like titanium, and carbon fiber and expands to hold however many cards, you need with over a half million customers and thirty thousand five star reviews. The ridge comes with a lifetime warranty, if you love it, and free returns, if you don't see how it works at ridge dot com slash NPR and get ten percent off with code NPR our story takes place in Selma. Alabama, a city built on a bluff, above the Alabama river some an old city was founded in eighteen. Twenty played an important role in the civil war. But so many today is best known for what happened during the civil rights movement in the nineteen sixties, and this black and white images from the civil rights movement. That's pretty much how we thought about some to Andy Narva from Alabama our ancestors were here before, Alabama was a state and our family trees are populated by slave owners confederates segregationist. But those people in those times to us, they felt far away from the Alabama week grew up in which was generation removed from the nineteen sixties, and we were growing up in the suburbs are Alabama, that is to say white, Alabama was wrestling with its story of the civil rights era, trying to figure out how to talk about it. And the strategy for the most part was not to talk about it because we didn't have to talk about it. What's past is past water under the bridge, but come on white southerners are not people habitually opposed to talking about the past. In fact, the opposite is true confederate Memorial Day commemorating soldiers killed in a war that ended over one hundred fifty years ago is still state holiday here and state government shuts down in remembrance. Nearly every county seat in Alabama has an enormous confederate monument right in the courthouse square and the state legislature passed a law in two thousand seventeen the protected those monuments from being removed. So this hesitancy among white folks to talk about what happened here in the nineteen sixties. It's. Not a simple resistance to the past. It's a resistance to a certain kind of story about the past among the stories, many, white albums don't like to talk about this. What happened in Selma on Sunday, March, seventh nineteen sixty five a spectacle of public violence would become synonymous with the city and the man who be murdered here. It was images of this violence that brought him to some in the first place. This is simply from that, Sunday it begins, a wide shot a group of black people milling about in front of a church, some of them have bags on their shoulders. Small suitcases rolling up sleeping bags Zun. The people form long line on the sidewalk. There's a cut to a medium shot of two men. John Lewis Williams standing before reporter, we'll margin today to Germany is to the nation ties to the world, hundreds and thousands of Nikko, citizens of Alabama of the my the right to vote. We intend to March to Montgomery to, Vince, then grievous to govern glossy watts. What are you gonna go to? What are we going to get stuck? We'll all get stuff. And if we get stopped to go stand in Chattanooga sheet in Tokyo him into this had to then shot Lewis Williams, leading long line of marchers, walk into by two down a sidewalk and through the city, then there's a wider shop, as the marchers cross the steel trellis bridge river, and you can see written right there on the arch Edmund Pettus bridge, as they reach the top. We see with the marcher see the other end of the bridge. A line of white state troopers dark uniforms, they're wearing helmets. He'll Billy clubs the hitch up their belts. We see the marchers getting closer before a cut to a watch shot some police officers on horses, and then it's hydra shot at the troopers, many of them have put on gas masks. And if you seen anything from this day, this is the big probably saying. Mark saying the test is. Sandri you Spurs your audit this, I go home. Go to your turt-, this March will not say. The marchers had come to stop the foot of the bridge. That clear to you. Got nothing further to say the two men in front of their hands still stuck deep in their pockets the hymns of their coats flap in the wind, but they don't move. They don't say anything back here, advance. Advanced. That they turn around and this. And then the line of state troopers begins to advance lowly at first holding their Billy clubs in front of them as they reached the marchers. The trooper speed up start shoving and then swinging clubs. You can see March forced to the ground. Others running back up the bridge, and then clouds smoke, teargas it happens very quickly and you see the troopers blocked by a line of police cars. Obscured by thick haze beating people on the ground. And this is the part that's most memorable most disturbing. The troopers are forcing the cameraman stay back. So there's a telephoto shot zoomed in as far as it'll go the image gets pretty grainy. But what you see through the fog of tear gas are clubs coming up in the air and swinging down over and over. On the lane is the only way that lane. Okay. Well. This real. This real when this to who it's a mild winter day, we're driving through some with the woman, we've come to know in recent years. Her name is JoAnne bland, where did you grow? Wale in the projects. But it's also from the Turks. Grew up in the Turks in nature and bro. The church is talking about is Brown chapel AME today. It's the most famous building in Selma because it was the nurse and for the civil rights movement here. It's actually in the nineteen sixty footage. It's the place where all the marchers gathered before setting out to cross the bridge imaging the church and the bridge JoAnne who gives the rights tours out of towners points out of five story building with windows on the upper floors, broken or boarded up. Building on the live on the corner. Tip used to be department store and I remember. Going in there, and we had to go in the basement, we couldn't go in that they had a basement for the African American and years, years later one L council women and I wanna radio show together. And it was around Christmas is she said, JoAnne? You remember the of Christmas one the land. And I was like, no, no. This is on the top floor at Tempus every year, it was the best time of the year because we would all up says, and every this wonderful win two one land and sound costs would be there. We waited all year for that. I had to remind I was African American, okay. That no, we never saw a winter wonderland, that was only for like kids. What does the places joint takes groups as to the live oaks material in the west side of town? It's a total southern cliche with the sunken, tombstones on the massive live oak stripping, with Spanish moss one end their dozens. And dozens of tiny confederate flags marking the graves of confederate soldiers. This part of the cemetery is called confederate memorial circle and includes a huge monument to the soldiers of Dallas county, who fought in the civil war. On one side. It reads there's grandeur in graves. There is glory and gloom this memorial. That's typical for the south. And if you squint just right, which so many white southerners have done for so long. It makes kind of sense why it's here. Something like thirty thousand alabamians died fighting in the civil war. And this monument erected, just thirteen years after the end of the war was part of the initial wave of monuments in the south, and the north that tried to make some kind of sense out of the war out of all the violence all the death. But then on the other side of the circle there's a different confederate monument, and no matter how hard you squint. There's only one way to read this one. It's a bust of Nathan Bedford Forrest a thumbnail sketch Afars would hit the highlights born poor. He makes a fortune as a slave trader becomes a legendary confederate general accused of ordering the slaughter of surrendering African American soldiers at four pillow. And after the south's defeat he becomes one of the earliest leaders of the newly formed Ku Klux Klan win. Did they dedicate the first? When we elect it out, first African American mayor the same year. I mean within weeks of 'em taken off. I mean, I I'm, I'm sorry to ask obvious question, but is it is just completely related. That they that they did that at the same time that they elected. I mean is it is it basically just the response? Now, you know, you've already answered that question in your mind, but. Luke. When I look at Nathan, he mouse move is, is, you may have a negro mayor, but we still here. Of course, look at the time. And why would you put the founder of the clues left land in a town? It had Jesse lifted African American men. If you're not trying to send a mitts. in says that Forrest was the founder and the clan, which is what a lot of people delays, but to get technical about it, he was not the founder instead he became the first grand wizard the clan. So to technical about it in the year two thousand white Somalians erected, a monument to a man who guided the ku-klux-klan to its first national campaign, racial violence. Spending time in some is like this a nearly constant technical in often bitter relitigate of the minutia of the past here in Selma. There are two distinct realms of the past the civil war, and the civil rights movement. In fact, the city slogan was from civil war to civil rights in recent years, they've added and beyond but to be honest, and Selma, it's hard to get beyond these two histories. They operate like two magnets with the same Larry, no matter how hard he might force them together. They will always repel each other. They will never find a way to meet some wasn't important city for the confederacy, the largest munitions factory outside of Richmond. It was a late stronghold that fell toward the end of the war in the story of its fall. There was always nostalgia and bravery, like the monument said there is grandeur in graves, but all of that has been clips by what happened on the bridge on March, seventh nineteen sixty five the event that was soon be called Bloody Sunday after the footage of the police beating protesters got. Themed around the world. And now that's what most of the people who come here looking for. And that's what so many people seek out, JoAnne. She was only eleven nineteen sixty five, but she was there on the bridge that day with their older sister. She was just over the crest of the bridge in about the middle of the line of marchers. When the state troopers began beating those in front setting off tear gas before we turn to run, too late came in from both sides front, and the band. And they were just beating people. When I remember the most screens, people were just screaming at probably was to screaming screaming people everywhere bleeding, not moving. I thought they were dead to guest burns is. So you're blind. Then you can't breathe you panic. I'll tell you right back to the same people, and it seemed like lasted forever. If you could out ruin the minimum put could not ruin the ones horses, they were run into horses into the crowd people were being trampled. The last thing I remember doing that said they seeing this horse and this lady, and I don't know what happened did he hit her feel that the horses run over I do know St. a hit the sound a head made when it hit that pavement. The cameraman on the bridge rush to develop their footage, and send it onto their producers. New York within hours violence, and Selma is the lead story on every network. One of the people watching the news that night is a man named James reap whom. Everyone calls Jim. He's a white unitarian minister, he's living in Boston. He's working on low income housing issues and he's watching the footage that night with his wife Marie. They're both outraged and Jim feel sick feels like he has to do something, the next day, Martin Luther King since telegrams to major denominations throughout the country, calling on clergy of conscience to descend on Somma and lend their support to the cause of the marchers. Jim rebe doesn't need much prodding. He knows he has to go his wife. Marie doesn't want him to go. They've got four young children. She watched the footage from sauna with them the brutality of the troopers think of what could happen, but she also knows the man. She married knows that when he's made his mind up. There's no dissuading him. So after. Jim reads bedtime story to his daughters. Marie drives them to Logan airport. Jim rise in Selma in time to take part in a short March this time led by Dr king that evening. Jim along with two other white Unitarians Clark Olsen and Orlov. Miller walk to a nearby restaurant, Sam cokes a change is gonna come which become an anthem for the movement is playing over and over on the box. Little chance. And just line the river. The restaurant was very full as it is, as I understand that one of the two is graded restaurants town, so that particular one was quite crowded. And this was about thirty two. And by that time it probably was five thirty. When we got to the restaurant that's Clark Olson, one of the ministers with Jim interviewed just a few days after the attack. So the three ministers are there in Selma the enjoy the meal in Washington street, the conversation, and then it's time to leave years later. This is how the other minister with them that night or lav Miller, remembered the scene after we had eaten, there was a phone booth inside the restaurant. And so, I called my wife and then Clark and Jim both called their wives to from the same phone. And I went outside the restaurant while they were making their calls. I remember about a cigar. I still smoked in those days and I stood outside the restaurant smoking, my cigar as the streetlights were just about to coming, there were just beginning to come on. They were these sodium, vapor lights and I thought to myself, what a peaceful scene, this is it was dos. Can there was nobody on the streets? And I thought this could be any midwestern community like I grew up in Ohio. After Jim is finished as long distance call. He clerked, meet Orlov out front. And here's that moment on the street. The three ministers wondering whether to turn left or right, when everything is just about to change. That's after this. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from ADT, America's trusted home security provider, providing secure smart, homes, custom designed with everything from video doorbells. Indoor and outdoor cameras smart locks and lights and professionally monitored carbon monoxide and smoke detectors all controlled by the sound of your voice, or on the go with the ADT go app. Learn more at ADT dot com. Support also comes from sport clips haircuts offering traditional and current haircut styles plus the convenience of self check in kiosks and an app for online. Check in whether a fresh cut beard, trim or new look, there's a sport clips nearby. With over eighteen hundred locations sport clips, you choose the cut. They cut the wait. This message comes from NPR sponsor monster. The zodiac killer, a riveting story of one of the most infamous serial killers, in history of faceless fugitive from the nineteen sixties who attacked and murdered five people in San Francisco, fifty years later, the killer is never been identified. Join host Matt Frederick for a deep dive into the story behind the headlines binge the entire season of monster. The zodiac killer, now on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app, or wherever you get your podcasts white civil rights workers in from out of town wouldn't be welcomed in some white owned restaurants. But there are two black-owned cafes on Washington street. The list and clay named after the legendary heavyweight fight between Sonny liston cashes clay and another spot called Walker's cafe, which everyone calls at his place. And that's where they end up they've come to the restaurant by walking somewhat circuitous route closer to the river around that it avoided a sketchy bar at the other end of the block called the silver moon cafe. But again, these three ministers Clark Olsen or lav Miller, Jim rib. They don't know some they don't know about the Silverman cafe, and it seems faster to turn. Right. And so that's what they do. We're speaking with rivers to Clark be Olson, or guest on this special public affairs, presentation of the ATV we now return and. Thought maybe bitter memories of for you. We would like to have you give us an account of what happened, Mr Olsson when you left that restaurant and sell them out of proximate Lee seven o'clock this past Wednesday night. It was probably a little closer thirty Senate was dark at that time. This is Clark Ulsan again. I haven't yet find with the name of the street is, we, we turn to the right coming out of the restaurant and went down toward the intersection about thirty to fifty feet from the intersection, we saw a group of for five men. Here's off Miller. And as we started walking from across the street, there, appeared four five white men and they yelled at us. Hey, you nigger. And we did not look across at them, but we're just sort of quickened, our pace, we didn't run, but continued walking in the same direction as these men rush across Washington street toward them Clark, or Lafon Jim mumble to each other, not to make contact to just keep walking Clark is the furthest ahead. And as he passes by the silver, moon cafe glances back sees it. The men of caught up with them quite minute thing I may say. They came across the street, and then what happened. Well, Jenry was the sidewalk nearest street. Jim was behind as we were walking, and he did not look around as I remember it. I did look around in time to see one man with some kind of a stick, or pipe or club swing. This. The stick. Violent out Jim rebe swum this steak and hit Jim on the side of yet, and Jim immediately fell to the pavement on his back the men that stand over Jim kicking and swinging the club Clark runs but is caught from behind and punched in the chest and face glasses skittering into the street or LA falls to the pavement, next to Jim ball himself up for protection as the attackers start kicking and punching him too. And then suddenly, it's over in the man with the club are gone just gone. Jim couldn't stand by himself. We lifted him up and he was incoherent at first, and he was babbling and we couldn't understand what he was saying. Gradually became more coherent, and he complained to the pain. That's all we could talk about great pain. We're often Clark support Jim stumble a couple of blocks to the Boyden insurance agency headquarters for one of the civil rights organizations. The ministers have been told to go there if they're only problems. And when they get in their young civil rights worker, Diane Bevill, this the first to see him. They told me that they had been attacked by several white men. One of them had been hit with some type of club and he was the one who is the most seriously injured in. That was Reverend James Reed, he was saying that he would be all right. And the his trans than I were really adamant that you've got to get medical attention. Like everything else in some of the city's medical facility. These were largely segregated because it's ministers there for a black voting rights. They would not have been welcome at the city's white hospitals. So Jim is rushed to a nearby medical clinic where one of the city's two black doctors examined him and takes an x Ray of his head. Jim goes unconscious, and the doctor decides right away that he has to be seen by neurosurgeon, the closest one is at university hospital, Birmingham. Nearly two hours away at this point, only an hour has passed since the attack in already from the pulpit of Brown AME Martin Luther King gives an update to the crowd there. Things happen here today concerning the. Three unitarian ministers, who. Beaten about an hour. So ago understand one was so brutally beaten that he had to be rushed to the hospital in Birmingham. Possible brain concussion. king addresses, the crowd a news alert. It's the wires and soon, it's on TV civil rights workers attacked and Selma. The word about Jim makes it out of Selma before he does. Heidi. Or loss. Miller died in two thousand fifteen but we found Clark Olsen living in Asheville North Carolina. Pelted by. Live. We ask Clark why he decided to go to Selma in nineteen sixty five and how that choice it affected his life. But soon we were there in the story of the night itself. Clark Orlov in gem walking shoulder to shoulder along the wide sidewalk. Jim on the outside edge closest to the street it just as a walking in there. We saw three or four men. I was quite sure at the time there were four men who came as cross the street at us. And then the men were upon them. I remember the sound of that club hitting gyms hit. And I remember him crying out when it hit him at the medical clinic and Selma. Clark, sat with John, I was holding Jim's hand as the pain got worse and worse for him. Jim squeezed, tighter and tighter. Then suddenly his hand went limp as he lost consciousness. So I was the last person literally in touch with him before he went on conscious. Remember jim. Nita dec- neurosurgeon, and the closest one was in Birmingham. So they drove north out of downtown some, the three white ministers in the back of the ambulance, and three black men up front, the driver, an attendant, and the doctor, then a couple of miles outside of the city limits, the had a flat, the driver pulled over and try to radio for help, but he couldn't get through as the driver. And the doctor discuss what to do. There was silence in the back Clark and Orlov looking at each other Jim on the stretcher, and then car full of white men pulled up on IWay behind us stocks right behind the eminence. And I remember, I'm not sure how much discussed this with Earl off. But what went through my head was home? My gosh. This might be conspiracy here. I remember a rush of feeling Clark. You just have to get out of year. Just run this dotty here is he thought about running something else rushed into his mind. The news flashes from the summer before and Mississippi when three civil rights workers gone missing, and then six weeks later, the discovery of their murdered bodies in the mud buried deep in an earth dam. And I thought my body might be an additional night. So I was terrified. I really was, I was just terrified the driver in Dr decided to head back toward Selma on the rim of the wheel to a nearby radio station where they could call for another ambulance. The car had been trailing them turned them to the station. It was green Nash, metropolitan Clark remembered it as being full of men. But in fact, there was just one person in the car, a white man named John south. What south will later say about what he saw and didn't see that night outside the radio station that will have serious consequences for the story, and we'll get to all that later. But Clark in the moment there in the back of the ambulance, he watched is the green Nash metropolitan, turn to follow them. He Orlov sat there and silence for what seemed like forever is their driver ran inside the radio station to call another ambulance, as the all waited Clark watched through the windows, several other white men arrived and circle. The ambulance appearing inside talking with the driver suddenly dawned on me that off. Fire going to have to get out of the car and shift gyms, gurney over to the ambulance, the second Bulent, and these guys are walking around and what were they going to do to us? I didn't know. When we out. And I started to work to take Jim's body over one of them came up to me and said in very unfriendly, tone, something, something as simple as a what's happening here. And. All I could bring myself to say was, please don't. That's all I said. Please don't. And in fact, they did nothing. In fact, we were safe. In fact, we've moved Jim's body or gyms unconscious body over to the second Bula. Silence. In Boston, Jim Reeves wife. Marie heard the phone ring and rushed to pick up the receiver before it will there four kids. She just talked to a couple of hours before when he called from the payphone of the restaurant Selma. But now it was their minister hoping to catch from re before she turned on the eleven o'clock news. He told her the gym had been involved in an incident Soma, and that he was now an ambulance headed to Birmingham. The minister was careful to be about what exactly happened Bettolo that she should began making arrangements to get Alabama. Dr Allen was one of the surgeons on call at Birmingham, university hospital that night, dick had been hired in July of nineteen sixty three just a couple of months before members of the Ku Klux Klan on the sixteenth street. Baptist church once they morning, killing four girls, and injuring dozens of others democrat been of the hospital, and it fell on him to pronounce the four little girls dead. And now the night of March ninth nineteen sixty five democ was home when he got a call about a head injury and route from Selma this man. The Reverend had been had just had a meal at a restaurant had just walked out and was attacked by mob and got hit the head. So new had hit injury, and that's reason, I'm wanted to make sure neurosurgeon was available to take care of him. When I got there to the emergency department, I was amazed at the mass of people that were there not just not just depressed. But everybody who was interested. The ambulance finally pulled into the emergency remembrance around eleven pm Domecq. Remember seeing the our doors swing. Open the stretcher with general, then I remember vividly. We brought the patient into the one of the cubicles there, and I was standing over the head of the patient. He wouldn't read them. We'll, so we had to do what we call a tracheotomy and looked up. And there was television camera grinding away the nurse couldn't walk across the room to get a suture or get addressing or anything because so many people in the room. So it was a mess. It was chaos and there as you can. Well, imagine. Time. Re read arrived down, Wednesday Jim was on life support. The hospital was keeping the press away from the family, but only on the promise that they interview marine. She desperately did not want to have to be interviewed. But those around our told her that she had an obligation, this tragedy was not just a personal one but at the whole world was watching and waiting for word from her. So just twenty four hours after husband had been attacked Marie walked into the hospital director's office, TV cameramen reporters photographers. There were crowded into the cramped space Morita behind the hospital director's desk, her hands clasped in front of her. And she looked down at them or the microphone throughout most of the interview was the decision. Your husband come here, a mutual decision. Did you sit down together discuss? Yes, he came home about six of the evening. I was preparing suffer, and he has to come upstairs to discuss a matter, he said that he wanted to go to some. What I thought about it. And I said. That I would prefer that he didn't go. But I knew how he felt and I knew that. Felt that he had to go. Did you have any communication with your husband prior to the time? He was tacked. Yes, he called about eight to say that everything was fine, and that he would be home the next day. Do you think the cause which your husband came to some was worth? I don't kill it. I can answer that for myself. I can only answer for Jim that to any consequences might occurred. Did. There. This. One of the last questions was about their four children. What if they even told Marie answered I told the children this morning as soon as they woke up that there had been heard the youngest ones did not fully understand, but the thirteen year old was quite upset. Howell Raines, Birmingham, natives would later go onto be -secutive editor of the New York Times was a cub reporter for the Birmingham, post herald nineteen sixty five Ray was in the in the hospital for two days, and I was dispatched there and obviously cupboard MRs Reeves press conference, but then as a young reporter remember, thinking this is important. This is a nationally important of it. This is not just some guy getting beaten the world is indeed watching the scale of this news. We were covering was large an important three right? Men were arrested today in Alabama on charges of a salt with intent to murder three white ministers on downtown street corner and Selma. Alabama last night violence on the bridge that Sunday, the eyes of the nation were already on some, the FBI lawyers for the department of Justice. They were all there on the ground and protests about Bloody Sunday now about the attack on rebe. We're putting in. Pressure on president Lyndon Johnson events, had been brought to climax by nighttime attack on white Boston minister by Lightman and throughout the nation. Even in Canada. There were marches through the streets of towns and cities in New York's Harlem more than fifteen thousand half of them, white vile somberly through the streets in client. But again is protests. Civil rights protesters had even occupied part of the White House itself, and many Americans were calling on Johnson to send troops into Selma. So everyone in the White House was on the president and his wife lady bird cinnabun cave yellow roses to Marie at the hospital in Birmingham. The Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach called the president of the day after the attack brief him on Reid's condition. LBJ recorded as he did with almost all his calls. Gonna die. What do you think you? Tell me that he could fail of another twenty four thirty six hours of these mechanical thing I think you've probably direly. I've arranged with the local authorities them there that when the minister die, they'll file I three murder charges. The next morning doctors, huddled with the read family, then laters keeping him alive. But there was no hope of recovery Thursday late afternoon. Marie went to his bedside one final time. It's six fifty five for the third time in forty eight hours, gyms heart stopped. This time he was not revived soon after the phone ring. It was the president and the first lady calling offer condolences to Marie the president told Marie that he would send the government plane to take her back to Boston. Labor later recruited her memories audio diary. Come that the Reverend read died Linden. I excuse SAAO's for a moment. A helpless painful moment, we talk to Mrs Read, what is that a say we went up, stay as a little past ten with here, the congressional guests, they're laughing, the music steel going below an ad in front, the chanting of civil rights marches what a house what life. Joanne bland, gives her civil rights tours of Selma. She guides visitors through small city of eighteen thousand people some as the fastest shrinking city in the state and almost forty percent of the residents here live below the poverty line. Whenever we drive around town JoAnne passed by empty, lots with overgrown, weeds and trash homes. They're falling in on themselves. But where people are clearly still living when you drive people around who are not from Alabama. Never been to Selma for do people comment on just how many abandoned businesses there are, how many sort of broken down building. I mean, do you usually talk about it within like what do you say to them? Until them we had massive white flight several times. So when you take the money out of a place, whether you as the system goes, the case system goes down. Everything goes down. So no jobs is hard to get any company to come here because they look back at that strife it never ever recovers, it always. And then we're so small, nobody to have the blight. Enlarge sit is they'll just kill off a section. Yeah. Never take you over there, if you visited but still. Everything does need to see is where the blight is. I'm getting hot. Joanne has brought us to one more. Stop brown. Chapel AME, the nerve center of the movement and Selma and what you wants to show us is this giant granite marker out in front commemorates, the voting rights campaign up, top is a bust of Martin Luther King junior below that the names of Jim rebe, and two other people killed during the Selma campaign and the first months of nineteen sixty five so tell me about I mean, since this is radio. Tell me about the names because we talked about that they talk about three of the deaths that were directly related to the Sam struggle. Reverend James unitarian minister from Boston, relegate lose. Oh, detroit. Housewife and dimly Jackson young man who was sought in Marion bass state trooper. Well, let's go up a little higher. You see they say they gave their lives. They didn't give in thing they were murdered about hateful racist, people quit saying they were murdered their lives were taken not giving. They were taken Jim Reeves death. It can't be separated from these other murders. Jimmy Jackson, local black activist and deacon in the Baptist church was killed. I shot in mid February thirty miles away in the town of Marian, and it's important to say his death is the initial catalyst for the March would become Bloody Sunday. So Jim Roope would never have been in Selma without Jackson's murder in twenty ten forty five years later, the white state trooper who pulled the trigger admitted to shooting Jackson, he's been only five months in jail via lose. Oh, a white woman was killed after Jim Rome in late March. She comes out to help with the voting rights move, and while driving between some Gumri. She was overtaken by carful of Klansmen who shot into car kilter, two of the men's ten years in prison. Another man died before sensing an another man in the car because. FBI informant lived the rest of his life in the witness protection program. But all these associated with the voting rights struggle in Selma, only Jim Reeves remains officially unsolved three men were arrested and charged with his murder, but at a trial in December of nineteen sixty five it took a jury only ninety seven minutes to find the defendants not guilty. The FBI reopen the case in two thousand eight but they to of intially abandoned saying quote the matter lacks prosecutive merit, and should be closed in quote to this day. No one has ever been held accountable for the murder of Jim read, why it was is though. His off and all of it would have come to life because he was white, man. Wow. Did that come about? We saw Jim is what we saw. Read these people who all about re. When we first started all this, that was our question to why is it so hard to know who kill Jim read this case was through the eyes of the nation of the president. How could it have not been solved? But it didn't take long to be reminded that in the south. There are no simple questions about the past. And as we started reaching out to people for the story we found a pervasive. Silence. Fell over so many Soames with any mention of ribs name. One. Understand you wanted to talk to me about whatever it is state me out of it. Over the past three years. We've had plenty of calls like this and doors slammed in our faces a pistol brandished in one man, my father's aid, even lunch to me. Grab me by the throat and threatened to put me in a garbage can whatever that means. But we kept going back, we've talked to hundreds of people here across the country report through thousands of pages of documents. We've made a dozen trips to archives and we've talked and we've argued and we've driven back and forth to some countless times, and we've done all this, because we wanted to know who kill Jim Roope. We wanted to know why the truth about his murder been so obscured, and why it seemed so many people were intent on keeping that way. And now we know and that's the story we're going to tell you. The stories we tell about ourselves. They feel true and permanent like the skin. We were born into. But what if you found out that a story, you believe so strongly something you and the people around you had staked, so much of your lives on? What if you found out that, that story was ally, what would you do believe the truth or keep believing the lie? From NPR. This is white lies. The true story of what happened the Jim Ryan. White lies is produced by us Graham Smith. The Colby Mr. Bower, Connor tone Neil with help from catch shook, Nick a researcher is Barbara van workum, rubber little editor with big assists from Keith woods in Chris. Audio engineers include James will it's and Alex skits music is composed by Jeff T bird special, thanks to the devotees for the use of this song. Take me to the speedway. Courtesy of estrus records, and Dave Kreider archival tape in this episode comes from Washington University in St Louis ABC, news, NBC news Pacifica, radio. Wwl TV Birmingham e footage and the Associated Press a big thank you to Chuck homes, and the staff of WB Birmingham. Also, mica rattener, actually messenger from NPR's legal team and Martin NPR standards and practices that. Thanks to the team that created a visual record of the story. Alison hurt Scott Stroud Thomas Wilburn been Delacruz, the coal were back desert fix checkout. NPR dot org slash white. Lies are project manager is Matilda yard, Neil Caruth general manager for podcasts in anew Grun as NPR's senior vice president program. If you need to be reminded that we're all more connected than we realize, get the story or podcast in restore your faith in humanity. Uninterrupted conversations between real people about the things that matter most and this season in honor of the fiftieth anniversary of the stonewall uprising, we're highlighting voices of LGBTQ, people across America stories from those who lived before stonewall today, episodes are available every Tuesday.

Selma Lafon Jim Alabama murder Clark Marie Clark Orlov Birmingham Jim Reeves president Boston Jim rebe NPR JoAnne bland Martin Luther King lav Miller Clark Olsen
Presenting: White Lies

The United States of Anxiety

50:56 min | 8 months ago

Presenting: White Lies

"Each listener supported W NYC Studios Hegang. It's Guy I hope you are all self isolating with care and with love and finding ways to stay plugged into your communities as I said before. We're turning our attention to the Kovic one thousand nine outbreak on the show and I'll have more on that in our next episode coming Thursday as usual but for now I wanNA share something totally unrelated in case you need a break from thinking about the corona virus as you know the United States Ming's. Id is all about the unfinished business of American history and its grip on our future our friends at NPR share that interest they produce a podcast called white lies and today. I'm going to share the first episode of that series with you. A nine hundred sixty five. Reverend James Reid was murdered in Selma Alabama. Three men were tried and acquitted but no one was ever held to account fifty years later to journalists from Alabama returned to the town where it happened exposed the lies that kept the murder from being solved and uncover a story about guilt and memory. That says as much about America today as it does about the past host Andrew Back Grace and chip Brantley. Take it from here. Three men eat dinner and a crowded restaurant in an unfamiliar city. When they're done eating to of them take turns using the payphone to make long distance phone calls to their families. One walks outside to smoke a cigar years later he'd recall how quiet it was the sound of the streetlamps coming on the phone calls are made they all stand in front of the restaurant and the approaching darkness. They don't know this place they don't know the street we've got a meeting to get back to. What's the best way back to where they've come from? Should they turn left or right? This is nineteen sixty five. These men are strangers here northern men and a segregated southern city. Whiteman standing in front of a black restaurant three men and a decision to make there would have been no way for them to know that what will happen next will change everything that it will lead to the murder of one of these men and radically altered allies of the other two that this moment will ripple down through the generations in ways seeing an unseen affecting the children and the grandchildren of all the men who converged on the street that night and it ripples far pass those families in this town news of the murder will spread leading to outrage and protests around the nation even the president will get involved invoking the murder in a nationally televised speech to announce one of the most significant bills of the twentieth century. But for everything that would happen after the decision to turn left or right. The murder has remained unsolved. No one has ever been held to account nine bag. Situation has created a lot of hate and the white community had been men who resented his coming to join. Negro civil rights demonstrations. I remember the sound of that club hitting James. I don't remember I don't remember Pale and you get bad stuff. You leave it alone. I didn't discuss it with nobody honey. After it happened I kept my mouth should die a lot of things. They knew back in those days. Come back to haunt him. Limitation Murder never runs out like a tree branches. If you cut on one breast domain to down three going down it just gonNA grow another brand. We need the Fan. The root of this From NPR this is white lies show in which we search for the root of all this. I'm Andrew Beck race and I'm Bradley. We're going to tell you about what happened on the street that night. And what came after about how ally took root working steadily over the years to overshadow the truth? And it's about what happened when we came back to the same city. Some fifty years later to call ally the lie to untangle the history and finally solve this murder. Our story takes place in Selma Alabama. A city built on a bluff above the Alabama river. Some is an old city was founded in eighteen. Twenty played an important role in the civil war. But Selma today is best known for what happened during the civil rights movement in the nineteen sixties and this black and white images from the civil rights movement. That's pretty much how we thought about some to any narberth from Alabama our ancestors were here before Alabama was a state and our family trees are populated by slave owners confederates segregationists but those people. Those times to us they felt far away from the Alabama. We grew up in which was generation removed from the nineteen sixties and we were growing up in the suburbs are Alabama that is to say White Alabama was wrestling with its story of the civil rights era trying to figure out how to talk about it and the strategy for the most part was not to talk about it. Because we didn't have to talk about it. What's past is past water under the bridge but come on. White southerners are not a people. Habitually opposed to talking about the past. In fact the opposite is true confederate Memorial Day commemorating soldiers killed in a war that ended over one hundred and fifty years ago is still a state. Holiday here and state government shuts down in remembrance. Nearly every county seat in Alabama has an enormous confederate monument right in the courthouse square and the state legislature passed a law in twenty seventeen the protected those monuments from being removed. So this hesitancy among white folks to talk about what happened here in the nineteen sixties. It's not as simple resistance to the past. It's a resistance to a certain kind of story about the past. Among the stories many white Alabamians don't like to talk about is what happened in Selma on Sunday. March seventh nineteen sixty five a spectacle of public violence it would become synonymous with the city and the man who be murdered here. It was images of this violence that brought him to Selma in the first place. This is some footage from that Sunday. It begins with a wide shot of a group of black people milling about in front of a church. Some of them have bags on their shoulders. Small suitcases rolling up sleeping bags soon. The people form a long line down the sidewalk. There's a cut to a medium shot of two men. John Lewis Williams standing before a reporter. Marching today to dramatize to the nation dramatize to the world but hundreds and thousands of Nikko citizens of Alabama of the night the right to vote. We intend to march to Montgomery to since then grievous to govern Rusty Wallace. What are you GonNa do if you get stuck or we're going to do to get stop. All get stopped. We get stopped to go stand in Chattanooga sheet in Tokyo into letting us go ahead then a shot of Lewis Williams leading a long line of marchers walking two by two down the sidewalk and through the city. Then there's a wider shot. Is the marchers. Cross a steel bridge over a river and you can see written right there. On the arch Edmund Pettus bridge as they reach the top we see with the Marcher. See at the other. End of the Bridge Align White State troopers in dark uniforms. They're wearing helmets. They HOLD BILLY CLUBS. They hitch their belts. We see the marchers getting closer before a cut to a wide shot of some police officers on horses. And then it's Hydra shot at the troopers. Many of them have put on gas masks. And if you've seen anything from this day this is the big you've probably seen Martha this first your audit to disperse go home or go to your church. This march will not the marchers have come to a stop at the foot of the bridge? That clear to you who got nothing. Further to say to. The two men in front of their hands still stuck deep in their pockets. The hymns of their coats flap in the wind. But they don't move. They don't say anything back here. Advance voting group that they turn around and dispersed and then the line state troopers begins to advance slowly at first holding their billy clubs in front of them and as they reached the marchers the trooper speed up start shoving and then swinging the clothes. You can see marchers forced to the ground others running back up the bridge and then clouds of smoke teargas happens very quickly and you see the troopers blocked by a line of police. Cars obscured by a thick haze beating people on the ground. And this is the part. That's most memorable most disturbing the troopers forcing the camera and to stay back. So there's a telephoto shot zoomed in as far as it'll go the image gets pretty grainy but what you see through the fog of tear gas or clubs coming up in the air and swinging down over and over. Yeah Delaney's okay. Well Oh this is real this real when this. It's a mild winter day and we're driving through some with the woman we've come to know in recent years. Her name is Joanne Bland. Where did you grow homes well in the products but it's also undeterred? Grew up in the Turks in nature and Brown the Church Jones talking about is Brown Chapel. Ame today it's the most famous building in Selma because it was the nerve center for the Civil Rights Movement. Here it's actually in that. Nineteen sixty five footage. That's the place where all the marchers gathered before setting out across the bridge. Imbetween the church and the Bridge Joanne. Who still writes tours out of towners points out of five story building with windows on the upper floors broken or boarded up and on the corner. Tempus used to be a department store and I remember going in there we to go onto basement. We couldn't go in that. They had a basement for the African American and years later WanNa L. Council women and I WANNA radio show together and it was around. Christmas is she said Joanne. You remember the Christmas wonderland and I was like no no. This is on the top floor tempus every year. It was the best time of the year because we would all go upstairs. And every this wonderful winter wonderland and sound like also be. We waited all year for that. I had to remain. I was African American. Okay that no. We never saw the winter wonderland that was only for. Like here's What are the places? Join takes groups to the live oaks material on the west side of town. It's a total southern Cliche with a sunken tombstones on the massive live oak stripping Spanish Moss and one in their dozens and dozens of tiny confederate flags marking the graves of confederate soldiers. This part of the cemetery is called confederate memorial circle and it includes a huge monument to the soldiers of Dallas County who fought in the civil war on one side it reads there's grandeur in Graves is glory and gloom this memorial. It's typical for the south. And if you squint just right which so. Many white southerners have done for so long. It makes a certain kind sense why it's here. Something like thirty thousand. Alabamians died fighting. The civil war in this monument erected just thirteen years after the end of the war was part of the initial wave of monuments in the south and the north the tried to make some sense out of the war out of all the violence and all the death but then on the other side of the circle. There's a different confederate monument. And no matter how hard you squint. There's only one way to read this one it's a bust of Nathan Bedford. Forrest a thumbnail. Sketch of forest would hit the highlights born poor. He makes a fortune as a slave trader becomes a legendary confederate general accused of ordering the slaughter of surrendering African American soldiers at Fort Pillow. And after the South's defeat he becomes one of the earliest leaders of the newly formed Ku Klux Klan. When did they dedicate the forest thousands? When we elected our first African American mayor the senior thing media. I mean within weeks of taking off I mean I. I'm sorry. Ask An obvious question but it is. It is just completely related that that they did that at the same time they elected. I mean is it. Is it basically just the response? Now you know you've already answered that question in your mind but when I look at Nathan Mouse Die Movement. It says you may have a Negro mayor but we are still here of course look at the time. And why would you put the founder Glenn in a town? It had Jesse elected African American. If you're not trying to send emits. Joanne says that forrest was the founder of the clan. Which is what a lot of people believe but to get technical about it. He was not the founder instead he became the first grand wizard the clan so to get technical about it in the year. Two Thousand White Salman's erected a monument to a man who guided the Ku Klux Klan to its first national campaign racial violence Spending time in Selma is like this and nearly constant technical and often bitter relocation at the minutia of the past. Here in Selma there are two distinct realms passed the civil war and the civil rights movement in fact the city slogan was from civil war to civil rights in recent years. They've added hand beyond but to be honest and Selma. It's hard to get beyond these two histories. They operate like two magnets with the same polarity. No matter how hard you might foursome together. They will always repel each other. They will never find a way to meet. Someone was an important city for the confederacy. The largest munitions factory outside of Richmond. It was a late stronghold that fell toward the end of the war and in the story of it's all there was always nostalgia and bravery like the monument said there is grandeur in graves but all that has been eclipsed by what happened on the bridge on March seventh nineteen sixty five. The event there was soon be called bloody Sunday after the footage of the police beating protesters got beamed around the world. And now that's what most of the people who come here looking for and that's why so. Many people seek out Joanne. She was only eleven in nineteen sixty five but she was there on the bridge that day with her older sister. She was just over the crest of the bridge in about the middle of the line of marchers when the state troopers began beating those in front setting off tear gas before we turn run. It was too late. They came in from both sides front and the back and they would just beating people. I remember the most screens people were just screaming at. Probyn was to screaming screaming people everywhere bleeding not move. I thought they were dead to. Burns is still. You're blind and then you can't breathe you. Panic entourage run right back to the same people and it seemed like it lasted forever if you could put you couldn't outrun the ones horses. They were running horses into the crowd. People who are being trampled the last thing. I remember though on that breeze that seeing this horse and this lady and I don't know what happened. Did he hit her? As you feel that the horses run over the sound ahead made when it hit that pavement. The cameraman on the bridge rush to develop their footage and send it onto their producers in New York within hours. The violence and Selma is the lead story on every network. One of the people watching the news that night is a man named James rebe whom everyone calls Jim. He's a white UNITARIAN minister. He's living in Boston. He's working on low income housing issues and he's watching the footage that night with his wife. Marie they're both outraged. Jim feel sick. Feels like he has to do something. The next day. Martin Luther King since telegrams to major denominations throughout the country calling on clergy of conscience to descend on Somma and lend their support to the cause of the marchers. Jim rebe doesn't need much. Prodding knows he has to go his wife. Marie doesn't want him to go. They've got four young children. She watched the footage from Sauna. With the brutality of the troopers think of what could happen but she also knows the man. She married knows that when he's made his mind up. There's no dissuading him so after. Jim Reads a bedtime story to his daughters. Marie drives them to Logan Airport. Jim Arise in Selma in time to take part in a short march. This time led by Dr King. That evening Jim along with two other White Unitarians Clark Olsen and Orlov Miller Walk to a nearby restaurant. Sam Cook a change is GonNa com which had become an anthem for. The movement is playing over and over on the jukebox chance and just by the river. The restaurant was Very low as it is as I understand that one of the two integrated restaurants in town and So that particular one was quite crowded and this was about five thirty. I'm here by that time. It probably was five thirty when we got to the restaurant. That's Clark Olson. One of the ministers with Jim Interview just a few days after the attack. So the three ministers are there in Selma the enjoy the meal in Washington Street. The conversation and then it's time to leave years later. This is how the other minister with them that night or Lav Miller remembered the scene after we had eaten There was a phone booth inside the restaurant. And so I called my wife and then Clark and Jim both called their wives to from the same phone and I went outside the restaurant while they were making their calls. I remember I bought a cigar. I still smoked in those days and I stood outside the restaurant smoking my cigar as the streetlights were just about coming. There were just beginning to come on. They were these sodium vapor lights and I thought to myself what a peaceful scene this is. It was dusk and there was nobody on the streets and I thought this could be any midwestern community like I grew up in Ohio after Jim has finished as long distance. Call He Clark meet Orlov out front. And here's that moment on the street. The three ministers wondering whether to turn left or right when everything is just about to change. That's after this Civil rights workers in from out of town wouldn't be welcomed in some white owned restaurants but there to black owned cafes on Washington street the list in clay named after the legendary heavyweight fight between Sonny Liston and cashes clay and another spot called. Walker's cafe which everyone calls Eddie's place and that's where they end up they've come to the restaurant by walking somewhat circuitous route closer to the river a route that avoided a sketchy bar at the other. End of the block called the silver moon cafe. But again these three ministers Clarkson or off Miller Jim rebe. They don't know Selma they don't know about the Silverman cafe and it seems faster to turn right. And so that's what they do. We're speaking with reverence to Clark B Olson our guest on this special public affairs presentation. Atv We now return and store. It may be a bitter memories of for you. We would like to have you give us an account of what happened Mr Olsson when you left that restaurant and sell them out. Approximately seven o'clock this past Tuesday night. It was probably a little closer seven thirty. Said it was dark at that time a Clark also and again I haven't yet heard the name of the street is we we turn to the right coming out of the restaurant and Went down toward the intersection About thirty to fifty feet from the intersection We saw a group of for five man Miller and as we started walking from across the street there appeared four five white men and they yelled at us. Hey you niggers and we did not look across at them but we just sort of quickened pace. We didn't run but Continued walking in the same direction as these men rush across Washington street toward them. Clark or eleven. Jim Mumbled to each other not to make contact to just keep walking. Clark is the furthest ahead and as he passed by the Silver Moon Cafe. He glances back. Sees it kind of caught up with them quite minute? I may say They came across the street. And then what happened? Well Jim Ryan was on the sidewalk. nearest street. Jim was slightly behind as we were walking. And I did not look around as I remember it. I did look around in time to see one man with some kind of a stick or pipe or club Swing this the stick violently at Jim Swung mistake ended. Hit Jim on the side of the head. Jim Immediately fell to the pavement on his back. The men then stand over Jim kicking and swinging. The club Clark runs but is caught from behind and punched in the chest and face glasses. Skittering into the street or la falls to the pavement next. Jim Bali himself up for protection as the attackers start kicking and punching him too. And then suddenly it's over in the man with the club are gone just gone. Jim couldn't stand by himself. We we lifted him up and he was incoherent at first and he was babbling and we couldn't understand what he was saying Gradually became more coherent. Tend to end. He complained to the pain. And that's all we could talk about great pain. We're often Clark Support Jim. They stumble a couple of blocks to the Boynton Insurance Agency headquarters for one of the civil rights organizations. The ministers have been told to go there if they're only problems and when they get them. They're a young civil rights worker. Diane Devil is the first to see him. They told me that they had been attacked by several white men. One of them had been hit with some type of club and he was the one who was the most seriously injured. In that was Reverend James Reed. He was saying that he would be all right and the his two trends and I were really adamant that you've got to get medical attention like everything else in some of the city's medical facilities were largely segregated and because the three ministers are there in support of black voting rights. They would not have been welcome at the city's white hospitals so jim is rushed to a nearby medical clinic where one of the city's two black doctors examined him and takes an x ray head. Jim Goes unconscious and the doctor decides right away. That has to be seen by neurosurgeon. The closest one is at university hospital in Birmingham. Nearly two hours away at this point only an hour has passed since the attack in already from the pulpit of Brown Ame Martin. Luther King gives an update to the crowd. There things happen here today concerning the three UNITARIAN ministers who Beaten about an hour or so ago understand. One was So brutally beaten that he had to be rushed to the hospital in Birmingham reponsible. Brain Concussion As king addresses the crowd a news alert hits the wires and soon it's on TV. Civil RIGHTS WORKERS ATTACKED IN. Selma the word about Jim makes it out of Selma before he does. Heidi Miller died in two thousand fifteen but we found Clark Olsen living in Asheville North Carolina pelted by several. Oh tonight we ask Clark why he decided to go to Selma in nineteen sixty five and how that choice. It affected his life but soon we were there and the story of the night itself Clark or Lafon. Jim Walking shoulder to shoulder along the wide sidewalk. Jim on the outside edge closest to the street it just as we were walking in there we saw three or four men. I was quite sure at the time there were four men who came as across the street at us and then the men were upon them. I remember the sound of that club. Hitting gyms hit and I remember him crying out when it hit him at the medical clinic and Salma Clark Sat with John. I was holding. Jim's hand as the pain got worse and worse for him. Jim Squeezed tighter and tighter and then suddenly his hand went limp as he lost consciousness so I was the last person literally in touch with him before he went unconscious. Remember Jimmy Dec- see a neurosurgeon and the closest one was in Birmingham so they drove north of downtown. Some the three white ministers in the back of the ambulance and three black men up front. The driver an attendant and the doctor then a couple of miles outside of the city limits. The ambulance had a flat. The driver pulled over and try to radio for help but he couldn't get through as the driver and the doctor discuss what to do. There was silence in the back Clark and Orlov looking at each other at Jim on the stretcher and then car full of white men pulled up on. Iway behind US stopped right behind the ambulance and I remember. I'm not sure how much I discussed this with earl off but what went through my head was. Oh my gosh this might be a conspiracy here. I remember a rush of feeling. Clark you just have to get out of here. Just run does get Outta here as he thought about running something else rushed into his mind. The news flashes from the summer before in Mississippi. When three civil rights workers had gone missing and then six weeks later the discovery of their murdered bodies in the mud very deep in a nursing dam and I thought my body might be in a ditch tonight so I was terrified. I really was. I was just terrified. The driver in Dr decided to head back toward Selma on the rim of the wheel to a nearby radio station where they could call another ambulance. The car that had been trailing them turned and followed them to the station. It was a green Nash. Metropolitan Clark remembered it as being full of men but in fact there was just one person in the car a white man named John South would south will later. Say about what he saw and didn't see that night. Outside the radio station that will have serious consequences for the story. And we'll get to all that later but Clark in the moment there in the back of the ambulance he watched is the Green Nash Metropolitan turned to follow them. He and Orlov sat there in silence for what seemed like forever is. Their driver ran inside the radio station to call for another ambulance as they all waited. Clark Watch through the windows. Several other white men arrived and circled the ambulance peering inside talking with the driver suddenly dawned on me that often I R- are going to have to get out of the car and shift gyms Gurney over to the ambulance. The second second ambulance and these guys are walking around. And what were they going to do to us? I didn't know when we got oude and I started to work to take. Jim's body over one of them came up to me and said in a very unfriendly tone something something as simple as hey. What's happening here and all I could bring myself to say was pleased. Don't that's all I said. Please don't and in fact they did nothing. In fact we were safe in fact. We've moved Jim's body or gyms unconscious body over to the second ambulance in Boston. Jim Reeves Wife. Marie heard the phone ring and rushed to pick up the receiver before it will therefore kids. She just taught gym a couple of hours before when he called from the payphone of the restaurant Selma Banal. It was minister hoping to catch Marie before. She turned on the eleven o'clock news. He told her the gym had been involved in an incident and Salma and that he was now an ambulance headed to Birmingham. The minister was careful to be vague. About what exactly happened. Told her that she should began making arrangements to get Alabama doctor. Allen dynamic was one of the surgeons on call at Birmingham University Hospital that night democ been hired in July of nineteen sixty three just a couple of months before members of the Ku Klux Klan on the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church once they morning killing four girls and injuring dozens of others de to the hospital and it fell on him to pronounce four little girls dead and now the night of March ninth nineteen sixty five. Dick was home when he got a call about head injury and route from Selma this man. The Reverend had been had just had a meal at a restaurant had just walked out and was attacked by a mob and got hit over the head so I knew he had a hate injury. And that's the reason I wanted to make sure neurosurgeon was available to take care of him when I got there to the emergency department. I was amazed at the mass of people that were there. Not just not just the press but everybody who was interested. The ambulance finally pulled into the emergency room entrance around eleven pm. Domecq remember seeing the ER doors swing open. The stretcher with Jen Roldan. I remember vividly. We brought the patient into the one of the cubicles there and I was standing over the of the patient He wasn't breathing. Also we had to do what we call a tracheotomy and looked up and there was a television camera grinding away. The nurse couldn't walk across the room to get a suture or gate addressing or anything because so many people in the room so it was a mess. It was chaos and there as you can. Well imagine by the time. Reread arrived down Wednesday. Jim was on life support. The hospital was keeping the press away from the family but only on the promise that they could interview marine she desperately did not want to be interviewed but those around her had told her that she had an obligation that this tragedy was not just a personal one but that the whole world was watching and waiting for word from her so just twenty four hours after her husband had been attacked. Marie walked into the hospital. Director's Office TV. Cameramen reporters photographers. They're were crowded into the cramped space. Marie sat behind the hospital. Director's desk her hands. Were class in front of her and she looked down at them or at the microphone throughout most of the was the decision. For your husband to come here. A mutual decision. Did you sit down together discuss it? Just he came home about six of the evening. I was preparing supper. He asked to come upstairs to discuss a matter. He said that he wanted to go to Selma and what I thought about it and I said that I would prefer that. He didn't go but I knew how he felt and I knew that he felt that he had to go. Did you have any communication with your husband? Prior to the time he was attacked. Yes he called about eight to say that Everything was fine and that he would be home the next day. Do you think the cause which your husband came to Selma was worth it. I don't feel that I can answer that for myself. I can only answer for jam that Any consequences that might occur. Did there this one of the last questions about their four children? What are they even told? Marie answered I told the children this morning as soon as they woke up that their father had been hurt. The youngest ones did not fully understand but the thirteen year old was quite upset. Howell Raines Birmingham native. Who would later go on to be? Executive EDITOR OF THE NEW YORK. Times was a cub reporter for the Birmingham Post Herald in nineteen sixty. Five rain was in the hospital for two days and I was dispatched there and obviously cupboard Mrs Ribs press conference but then as a young reporter. I remember thinking this is important. This is a nationally important of it. This is not just some guy getting beaten. The world is indeed watching the scale of this news. We were covering was large. An imported three white men were arrested today. In Selma Alabama on charges of assault with intent to murder three white ministers on a downtown street corner in Selma Alabama night after the violence and the bridge. Sunday the eyes of the nation were already on Summa the FBI lawyers for the Department of Justice. They were all there on the ground and protests about bloody Sunday now about the attack on rebe. We're putting intense pressure. On President Lyndon Johnson Event. Some Selma had been brought to a climax by nighttime attack on White Boston Minister by white men and throughout the nation even in Canada there were marches through the streets of towns and cities. In New York's Harlem more than fifteen thousand half of them white vinyl somberly through the streets in client agonize protests and civil rights. Protesters had even occupied part of the White House. Itself and many Americans were calling on Johnson to send troops into Selma so everyone in the White House was on edge the president and his wife. Lady Bird Senator Bouquet of yellow roses Marie at the hospital in Birmingham. The Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach called the president the day after the attack to brief him on. Reid's condition. Lbj recorded it. As he did with almost all his calls risk. Managers got a DI. Did what you thank you that they tell me that he could fail a another twenty four thirty six hours of these mechanical things. I think you've probably die early. I've arranged With the local authorities down there that When the minister died they'll file first degree murder charges then in the next morning the doctors huddled with the read family ventilators keeping him alive but there was no hope of recovery. There's Day late afternoon. Marie went to his bedside one. Final time it's six fifty five for the third time in forty-eight hours gyms heart stopped this time he was not revived soon. After the phone ring it was the president and the first lady calling to offer condolences to Marie. The president told Marie that he would send a government plane to take her back to Boston. Lady Bird later recorded her memories in her audio diary news income that the Reverend rebe had died. Linden I excuse essay. I was for a moment by helpless painful moment. We talked to Mrs read. What what is that? Say We went upstairs a little past ten within here. The congressional gas. They're laughing in the music. Still going below and out in front but chanting approval rights marches. What a house. What Life Joanne. Bland gives her civil rights tours of Salma. She guides visitors through a small city of eighteen. Thousand people some as the fastest shrinking city in the state and almost forty percent of the residents here live below the poverty line whenever we drive around town Joanne. We passed by empty lots with overgrown weeds and trash homes. They're falling in on themselves but where people are clearly still living when you drive people around who are not from Alabama. Never been to Selma before. Do people comment on? Just how many abandoned businesses there are and how many of you SORTA broken down building I mean. Do you usually talk about it within. Like what do you say to them until them? We had massive white flight several times. So when you take the money out of a place where you expect. The system goes to the occasional system. Goes down everything goes down so no jobs are hard to get any company to come here because they look back at that strife and never ever recovered it. Always 'cause then we're so small was nobody to blight In Large cities you they'll just kill off a section. Yeah near never take you over. If you're visited but sell everything they need to see is where the plight is. I'm getting hot. Let's go. Joanne has brought us to one more. Stop Brown Chapel. Ame The nerve center of the movement and Selma and what Joann wants to show us. Is this giant. Granite Marker out in front commemorates the voting rights campaign up top is a bust of Martin Luther King Junior below that the name of Jim rebe and two other people killed during the Selma campaign and the first months of nineteen sixty five. So tell me about. I mean instances radio. Tell me about the names because we talked about that. Talk about Three of the deaths that were directly related to the cell struggle. Reverend James rebe. Unitarian MINISTER FROM BOSTON RALLIED. Grid Zo Detroit. Housewife and Jimmy Lee Jackson young man. Who was shot in Marion by state trooper? Well let's go up a little higher. You see they say they gave their lives. DidN'T GIVE ANYTHING. They were murdered by hateful racist. People quit saying they were murdered. Their lives were taken not given. They were taken Jim Reeves death. It can't be separated from these other. Murders Jimmy Lee Jackson a local black activist and Deacon in the Baptist. Church was killed. I shot in mid February thirty miles away in the town of Marian and it's important to say his death is the initial catalyst for the march. That would become bloody Sunday so Jim roope would never have been in Selma with Jackson's murder in two thousand ten forty five years later the white state trooper who pulled the trigger admitted to shooting Jackson. He's been only five months in jail. Viola Yuzo a white woman was killed after January. In late March. She had come south to help with voting rights move and while driving between Selma Montgomery. She was overtaken by a carful of Klansmen. Who Shot into her car killed? Her two of the men spent ten years in prison. Another man died before sentencing and another man in a car because it was an FBI informant lived the rest of his life in the witness protection program but all of these deaths associated with the voting rights struggle in Selma Only Jim. Reeves remains officially unsolved. Three men were arrested and charged with his murder but at a trial in December of nineteen sixty five. It took a jury only ninety seven minutes to find the defendants not guilty. The FBI reopened the case in two thousand eight but they too eventually abandoned saying quote. The matter lacks prosecutive merit and should be closed in quote to this day. No one has ever been held accountable for the murder of Jim. Read why it would seem as though his been solved quickly and all of it would have come to life because he was a white man hot. Well how did that come about that? We can solve Jimmy's but we can't saw read hot. These people who are about read when we first started all this. That was our question to. Why is it so hard to know who killed Jim read? This case was through the eyes of the nation of the president. How could it have not been solved? But it didn't take long to be reminded that in the south there are no simple questions about the past and as we started reaching out to people for the story we found a pervasive silence that fell over so many sawmills with any mention of reeves. Name Message. One you wanted to to me about whatever. It is me out of it over the past three years. We've had plenty of calls. Like this. And doors slammed in our faces a pistol brandished in one man. My father's Day even lunch to me grabbed me by the throat and threatened to put me in a garbage can whatever that means but we kept going back. We've talked to hundreds of people here across the country reported through thousands of pages of documents. We've made a dozen trips to archives and we've talked and we've argued and we've driven back and forth to some countless times and we've done all of this because we wanted to know who killed. Jim Reap we wanted to know why the truth about his murder has been so obscured and why it seemed so many people were intent on keeping it that way and now we know. And that's the story. We're going to tell you the stories we tell about ourselves. They feel true and permanent. Like the skin we were born into. But what if you found out that a story you believe so strongly something you the people around you had staked so much of your lives on. What have you found out that that story was ally? What would you do? Believe the truth or keep believing the lie from NPR. This is white lies. The true story of what happened to Jim? Reed check out white lies at NPR DOT ORG or wherever you get your podcasts and in our next United States have anxiety episode. We'll turn our attention to the corona virus outbreak. We're going to look back at previous health. Crises for guidance. And we're going to talk with a lot of people whose experiences right now might help see the ways in which this whole mess may change. Just forget I'm on twitter at Kyw. Underscore right keep in touch John. White lies is produced by US. Graeme Smith the Colby Mr bore and Connor town. O.`Neil with help from catch shook. A researcher is Barbara Van. Workum Robert Little is our editor with big assists from Niger. Eaten Keith Woods and Chris Turbans saying audio engineers include James Willits and Alex when skits music is composed by Jeff. T. Bird special. Thanks to the Dexter teens for the use of this song. Take me to the speedway courtesy vestry records Dave Kreider archival tape in. This episode comes from Washington University in St Louis. Abc News NBC News. Pacifica radio WWL. Tv Birmingham e footage and the associated. Press a big thank you to chuck homes and the staff of WBZ Birmingham. Also Michael Ratner and Actually Messenger from. Npr's legal team and Martin NPR standards and practices editor. Thanks to the team that created a visual record of the story. Alison Hurt Scott. Stroud Thomas Wilburn Dinsdale cruise the coal were Beck and Desert Hicks checkout. Npr DOT org slash. White lies are project manager is Matilda Yard. Neil caruth is general manager for podcast and anew grunting as NPR's senior vice president for programming If you need to be reminded that we're all more connected than we realize. 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Selma Alabama Jim Alabama Joanne Bland murder Jim rebe Jim Reeves BILLY CLUBS Marie Civil Rights Movement Boston Marcher US Martin Luther King Metropolitan Clark president Selma Birmingham Selma Alabama
BONUS: The Murder Of The Rev. James Reeb

Up First

52:24 min | 1 year ago

BONUS: The Murder Of The Rev. James Reeb

"Hey, up first listeners, it's Rachel, and it Saturday, and we have a bonus episode for you. It's a really important story. It begins in nineteen sixty five with a man named Reverend James rebe. He was a unitarian minister and a civil rights activist, and he was killed during the voting rights movement in Selma. Alabama three men were tried and acquitted for his murder. And now NPR has this new podcast about Reeves, death and its consequences? It is called white lies and it's hosted by chip Brantley and Andrew Beck grace, they go back to. So Ma to uncover the truth about who exactly killed James rebe, and they end up on covering a story about guilt about memory and Justice. That says as much about America today as it does about the past three men eat dinner and a crowded restaurant in an unfamiliar city when they're done eating two of them. Take turns using the pay phone to make long distance phone calls to their families. One walks outside to smoke a cigar years later. Her he'd recall. How quiet it was sound of the streetlamps coming on. And when the phone calls are made they all stand in front of the restaurant in the approaching darkness. They don't know this place. They don't know the street. We've got a meeting to get back to what's the best way back to where they've come from should they turn left or right? This is nineteen sixty five these men are strangers here. Northern men in a segregated southern city Whiteman, standing in front of a black restaurant. Three men and a decision to make. There would have been no way for them to know that what will happen, next will change everything that it will lead to the murder of one of these three men and radically altered, allies of the other two that this moment will ripple down through the generations in ways seen an unseen affecting the children and the grandchildren of all the men who converged on the street that night. And it ripples far past those families in this town news of the murder will spread leading to outrage and protests around the nation. Even the president will get involved invoking the murder in a nationally televised speech to announce one of the most significant bills of the twentieth, century. But for everything that would happen after the decision to turn left or right. The murder has remained unsolved. No one is ever been held to account. Eight in the white community. Resented is coming to a settlement. Join nego civil rights demonstrations. I remember the sound of that club hitting gyms. I don't remember. I don't to. Hale, and you get bad stuff. You leave it alone. I didn't discuss it with nobody Honey after it happened. I kept my mouth shut. We're gonna die. A lot of things they knew back in those days, come back to home. Limitation of murder never runs out like a tree with branches. If you could on one breast don't mean down tree going bad. It just gonna grow another brand. We need defend the root of this. from NPR. This is white lies show in which we search for the root of all I'm Andrew Beck grace. And I'm Bradley the story, we're going to tell you about what happened on the street that night. And what came after about how a lot to route irking settled over the years to overshadow the truth. And it's about what happened when we came back to the same city. Some fifty years later to call a lie. The lie to tangle the history from the Follivy and finally solved this murder. Support for white lies and the following message come from Alfred a cap publisher of furious hours by Casey set which explores the case of an Alabama serial killer and the unpublished book that Harper Lee worked on after tequila Mockingbird, a murderous preacher, the vigilante who shot him the lawyer who defended them. Both the true crime story that consumed Harper -ly available now wherever books are sold. Support also comes from ridge Wallid. There is, is the wallet reimagined it's innovative design uses premium materials like titanium, and carbon fiber and expands to hold, however many cards, you need with over a half million customers and thirty thousand five star reviews. The ridge comes with a lifetime warranty, if you love it, and free returns, if you don't see how it works at ridge dot com slash NPR and get ten percent off with code NPR our story takes place in Selma. Alabama, a city built on a bluff, above the Alabama river some an old city was founded in eighteen. Twenty played an important role in the civil war. But Selma today is best known for what happened during the civil rights movement in the nineteen sixties and those black and white images from the civil rights movement. That's pretty much how we thought about some to in Narva from Alabama, our ancestors were here before, Alabama was a state and our family trees are populated by slave owners confederates segregationist. But those people in those times to us, they felt far away from the Alabama week grew up in which was generation removed from the nineteen sixties. And when we were growing up in the suburbs are Alabama, that is to say white, Alabama was wrestling with its story of the civil rights era, trying to figure out how to talk about it. And the strategy for the most part was not to talk about it because we didn't have to talk about it. What's past past water under the bridge? But come on white southerners are not people habitually opposed to talking about the past. In fact, the opposite is true confederate Memorial Day commemorating soldiers. Killed in a war that ended over one hundred fifty years ago is still a state holiday here and state government shuts down in remembrance. Nearly every county seat in Alabama has an enormous confederate monument right in the courthouse square and the state legislature passed a law in two thousand seventeen that protected those monuments from being removed. So this hesitancy among white folks to talk about what happened here in the nineteen sixties. It's not a simple resistance to the past. It's a resistance to a certain kind of story about the past among the stories, many white. I'll abandons don't like to talk about this. What happened in Selma on Sunday, March, seventh nineteen sixty five a spectacle of public violence would become synonymous with the city and the man who murdered here, it was images of this violence that brought him to sell them in the first place. This is simply from that, Sunday, it begins with a wide shot of a group of black people milling about in front of a church. Some of them have bags on their shoulders. Small suitcases rolling up sleeping bags soon. The people form a long line on the sidewalk. There's a cut to a medium shot of two men. John Lewis Hosea Williams, standing before reporter today to dramatize to the nation ties to the world, hundreds and thousands of Nikko, citizens of Alabama of the night, the right to vote. We intend to March to Montgomery to, Vince, then grievous to govern glossy Wallace. What are you gonna go? What are you gonna go? Are we going to do get step, but will all get stuff? And if we get stopped because stand in Chattanooga sheet in Tokyo into the mongo. Then shot Lewis Williams leading a long line of marchers. Walk into by two down. A sidewalk in through the city then there's a wider. Shop is the marchers. Cross a steel trellis bridge over river, and you can see written right there on the arch Edmund Pettus bridge, as they reach the top. We see with the marcher see the other end of the bridge. A line of white state troopers dark uniforms, they're wearing helmets. He'll Billy clubs the hitch up their belts. We see the marchers getting closer before a cut to a wide shot, some police officers on horses, and then it's hydra shot at the troopers, many of them have put on gas masks, and if you've seen anything from this day, this is the big probably saying. Spurs your audit to disperse. Go home. Go to your church. This March will not say. The marchers have come to a stop the foot of the bridge. That clear to you. Got nothing further to say to you. The two men in front of their hands still stuck deep in their pockets the hymns of their coats flap in the wind, but they don't move. They don't say anything back. That they turn around and this part, and then the line of state troopers begins to advance slowly at first holding their Billy clubs in front of them. And as they reached the marchers, the trooper speed up start shoving and then swinging clubs. You can see marchers forced to the ground. Others running back up the bridge and then clouds of smoke tear gas. It happens very quickly and you see the troopers blocked by a line of police cars, obscured by thick haze beating people on the ground. And this is the part that's most memorable most disturbing. The troopers are forcing the cameramen to stay back. So there's a telephoto shot zoomed in as far as it'll go. The image gets pretty grainy. But what you see through the fog of tear gas or clubs coming up in the air and swinging down over and over. On the lane is the elevator. Okay. Well, this real. This real when this to who it's a mild winter day, we're driving through some with the woman, we've come to know in recent years. Her name is JoAnne bland, where did you grow? You. In the projects. But it's also from the Turks. Grew up in the Turks in nature and brow. The church Joanne's talking about Brown chapel AME today. It's the most famous building in Selma because it was the nerve center for the civil rights movement here. It's actually in that nineteen sixty five footage, it's the place where all the marchers gathered before setting out to cross the bridge, imaging the church and the bridge JoAnne who gives civil rights tours out of town. There's points out of five story building with windows on the upper floors, broken, or boarded up. On the corner. Temp used to be department store and I remember. Going in there to go in the basement, we couldn't go in that they had a basement for the African American and years later one L council women and I wanna radio show together. And it was around Christmas is she said, JoAnne? You remember the Christmas one the land. And I was like, no no on the top floor at Tempus every year, it was the best time of the year because we would all up says, and every this wonderful win two one the land and sound costs would be. We waited all year for that. I had to remind I was African American. Okay. No, we never thought a winter wonderland that was only for like is. What are the places? Join takes groups as to the live oaks material in the west side of town. It's a total southern cliche, with a sunken tombstones on the massive live, oaks, dripping with Spanish moss, one in their dozens and dozens of tiny confederate flags marking the graves as confederate soldiers this part of the cemetery is called confederate memorial circle and it includes a huge monument to the soldiers of Dallas county, who fought in the civil war. On one side. It reads there's grandeur in graves. There is glory and gloom this memorial. It's typical for the south. And if you squint just right, which so many white southerners have done for so long. It makes a certain kind of sense why it's here. Something like thirty thousand alabamians died fighting in the civil war. And this monument erected, just thirteen years after the end of the war was part of the initial wave of monuments in the south, and the north that tried to make some kind of sense out of the war out of all the violence all the death. But then on the other side of the circle there's a different confederate monument, and no matter how hard you squint. There's only one way to read this one. It's a bust of Nathan Bedford Forrest a thumbnail sketch afforest would hit the highlights born poor. He makes a fortune as a slave trader becomes a legendary confederate general accused of ordering the slaughter of surrendering African American soldiers at fort pillow. And after the south's defeat he becomes one of the earliest leaders of the newly formed Ku Klux Klan, did they dedicate the first. Elected out. First African American mayor. The same thing here. I mean within weeks of taking off. I'm sorry to asking obvious question, but is it is just completely related. That they did that at the same time that they elected. I mean is it is it basically just the response? Now, you know, you've already answered that question in your mind. But when I look at Nathan, he mouse die moving. It says you may have a negro mayor, but we're still here. Of course, look at the time. Why would you put the founder Glenn in a town? It had Jesse lifted African American men. If you're not trying to send a myth. says the forest was the founder and the Clinton which is what a lot of people believe, but to get technical about it, he was not the founder instead he became the first grand wizard of the clan. So to get technical about it in the year two thousand white Somalians erected, a monument to a man who guided the Ku Klux Klan to its first national campaign of racial violence. Spending time in Selma is like this a nearly constant technical in often bitter relitigate of dementia of the past here in Selma. There are two distinct realms of the past the civil war, and the civil rights movement. In fact, the city slogan was from civil war to civil rights in recent years, they've added and beyond but to be honest, and Selma, it's hard to get beyond these two histories. They operate like two magnets with the same Peretti no matter how hard he might force them together. They will always repel each other. They will never find a way to meet some wasn't important city for the confederacy the largest munitions factory outset of Richmond. It was a late stronghold that fell toward the end of the war, and in the story of its fall, there was always nostalgia and bravery, like the monument said there is grandeur in graves, but all of that has been clips by what happened on the bridge on March, seventh, nineteen sixty five the event there was soon be called Bloody Sunday after the footage of the police beating protesters got. Themed around the world. And now that's what most of the people who come here looking for. And that's what so many people seek out, JoAnne. She was only eleven in nineteen sixty five, but she was there on the bridge that day with her older sister. She was just over the crest of the bridge in about the middle of the line of marchers. When the state troopers began beating those in front and setting off tear gas before we turn to run too late came in from both sides front, and the band. And they were just beating people. When I remember the most those screens, people were just screaming at probably was to screaming screaming people everywhere bleeding, not moving. I thought they were dead to guests burns is. Is your blind? Then you're Kate breed you panic. Alta tells you right back to the same people and the same like lasted forever. If you could outrun them in put couldn't outrun the ones voices, they were run into horses into the crowd people are being trampled. The last thing I remember though, that, that they're seeing this horse and this lady. And I don't know what happened did he hit her feel that the horses run over I do know St. a hit the sound a head made when it hit pavement. The cameramen on the bridge rushed to develop their footage, and send it onto their producers. New York within hours, the violence and Selma is the lead story on every network. One of the people watching the news that night is a man named James reap whom everyone calls, Jim. He's a white unitarian minister, his living in Boston. He's working on low income housing issues and he's watching the footage that night with his wife Marie. They're both outraged and Jim feel sick feels like he has to do something, the next day, Martin Luther King since telegrams to major denominations throughout the country, calling on clergy of conscience to descend on Somma and lend their support to the cause of the marchers. Jim rebe doesn't need much prodding. He knows he has to go his wife. Marie doesn't want him to go. They've got four young children. She watched the footage from Somma with them the brutality of the troopers think of what could happen, but she also knows the man. She married knows that when he's made his mind up. There's no dissuading him. So after. Jim reads a bedtime story to his daughters. Marie drives him to Logan airport. Jim rise in Selma in time to take part in a short March this time led by Dr king that evening. Jim along with two other white Unitarians, Clark Olsen and Orlov Miller, walk to a nearby restaurant, Sam cokes a change is gonna come which would become an anthem for the movement is playing over and over on the box. And just line the river. The restaurant was very full as it is, as I understand that one of the two integrated restaurants town, so that particular one was quite crowded. And this was about five thirty here. By that time it probably was five thirty. When we got to the restaurant that's Clark Olson, one of the ministers with Jim interview, just a few days after the attack. So the three ministers are there in Selma the enjoy the meal in Washington street, the conversation, and then it's time to leave years later. This is how the other minister with them that night or lav Miller, remembered the scene after we had eaten, there was a phone booth inside the restaurant. And so, I called my wife and then Clark and Jim both called their wives to from the same phone. And I went outside the restaurant while they were making their calls. I remember about a cigar. I still smoked in those days. And I stood outside the restaurant smoking, my cigar as the streetlights were just about to coming, there were just beginning to come on. They were these sodium, vapor lights and I thought to myself, what a peaceful scene, this is it was dusk, and there was, nobody on the streets. And I thought this could be any midwestern community like I grew up in Ohio. After Jim is finished his long distance call. He clerked, meet Orlov out front. And here's that moment on the street. The three ministers wondering whether to turn left or right, when everything is just about to change. That's after this. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from ADT, America's trusted home security provider, providing secure smart, homes, custom designed with everything from video doorbells. Indoor and outdoor cameras smart locks in lights, and professionally monitored carbon monoxide and smoke detectors all controlled by the sound of your voice, or on the go with the AT go app. Learn more at ADT dot com. Support also comes from sport clips haircuts offering traditional and current haircut styles plus the convenience of self check in kiosks and an app for online. Check in whether a fresh cut beard, trim or new look, there's a sport clips nearby with over eighteen hundred locations. Sportclips you choose the cut they cut the weight. White civil rights workers in from out of town wouldn't be welcomed in some white owned restaurants. But there are two black owned cafes on Washington street. The list and clay named after the legendary heavyweight fight between Sonny liston cashes clay, and another spot cold walkers cafe, which everyone calls at his place. And that's where they end up they've come to the restaurant by walking somewhat circuitous route closer to the river around that it avoided a sketchy bar at the other end of the block called the silver moon cafe. But again, these three ministers Clark Olsen or lav Miller, Jim rib. They don't know some they don't know about the Silverman cafe, and it seems faster to turn. Right. And so that's what they do. We're speaking with the reverend's to Clark be Olson guest on this special public affairs, presentation of the ATV we now return and. Thought maybe bitter memories of for you. We would like to have you give us an account of what happened Mr. Wilson when you left that restaurant. And so Matt approximately seven o'clock, this past Wednesday night, it was probably a little closest thirty said it was dark at that time. This is Clark Ulsan again. I haven't yet find with the name of the street is, we, we turn to the right coming out of the restaurant and went down toward the intersection about thirty to fifty feet from the intersection, we saw a group of for five men. Here's a little off Miller. And as we started walking from across the street, there, appeared four five white men and they yelled at us. Hey, you niggers. And we did not look across at them, but we're just sort of quickened, our pace, we didn't run, but continued walking in the same direction as these men rush across Washington street toward them Clark, or Lafon Jim mumbled to each other, not to make contact to just keep walking Clark is the furthest ahead. And as he passes by the silver, moon cafe glances back sees it. The men of caught up with them quite minuting. I may say. They came across the street, and then what happened. Well, Jerry was on the sidewalk nearest street. Jim was behind as we were walking, and he did not look around as I remember it. I did look around in time to see one man with some kind of a stick, or pipe or a club, swing this. The stick. Violently out. Jim, you swum this stick and hit. Jim on the side of the Jim immediately fell to the pavement on his back the men that stand over Jim kicking and swinging the club Clark runs but is caught from behind and punched in the chest and face glasses skittering into the street or law falls to the pavement next to Jim ball himself up for protection as the attackers start kicking and punching him too. And then suddenly, it's over in the man with the club are gone just gone. Jim couldn't stand by himself. We lifted him up and he was incoherent at first, and he was babbling and we couldn't understand what he was saying. Gradually became more coherent and, and he complained to the pain. That's all we could talk about great pain. We're often Clark support Jim is a stumble a couple of blocks to the Boyden insurance agency, headquarters, one of the civil rights organizations, the ministers have been told to go there any problems. And when they get in their young civil rights worker, Diane Bevill, this the first to see him. They told me that they had been attacked by several white men. One of them had been hit with some type of club and he was the one who is the most seriously injured in that was Reverend James Reed, he was saying that he would be all right. And the his to trans than I were really adamant that you've got to get medical attention. Like everything else in some of the city's medical facility. Were largely segregated and because it's remembers there for a black voting rights. They would not have been welcome at the city's white hospitals. So Jim is rushed to a nearby medical clinic where one of the city's two black doctors examined him and takes an x Ray of his head. Jim goes unconscious, and the doctor decides right away that he has to be seen by neurosurgeon, the closest one is at university hospital, Birmingham. Nearly two hours away at this point, only an hour has passed since the attack in already from the pulpit of Brown AME Martin Luther King gives an update to the crowd there. Things happen here today concerning the. Three unitarian ministers, who. Beaten about an hour or so ago understand one was so brutally beaten that he had to be rushed to the hospital in Birmingham. Possible brain concussion. King addresses the crowd. A news alert hits the wires and soon. It's on TV civil rights workers attacked and Selma. The word about Jim makes it out of Somma before he does. Heidi. Orlov Miller died in two thousand fifteen but we found Clark Olsen living in Asheville North Carolina. Felted by. We ask Clark why he decided to go to Selma in nineteen sixty five and how that it affected his life. But soon we were there in the story of the night itself. Clark Orlov in gem walking shoulder to shoulder along the wide sidewalk. Jim on the outside edge closest to the street it just as a walking in there. We saw three or four men. I was quite sure at the time there were four men who came as cross the street at us. And then the men were upon them. I remember the sound of that club hitting gyms hit. And I remember him crying out when it hit him at the medical clinic and Selma. Clark, sat with John, I was holding Jim's hand as the pain got worse and worse for him. Jim squeezed, tighter and tighter. Then suddenly his hand went limp as he lost consciousness. So I was the last person literally in touch with him before he went on conscious. Remember Jim needed to see a neurosurgeon, and the closest one was in Birmingham. So they drove north out of downtown some, the three white ministers in the back of the ambulance, and three black men up front, the driver, an attendant, and the doctor, then a couple of miles outside of the city limits, the had a flat, the driver pulled over and try to radio for help, but he couldn't get through as the driver. And the doctor discuss what to do. There was silence in the back Clark and Orlov looking at each other. It Jim on the stretcher, and then car full of white men pulled up on IWay behind us stopped right behind the eminence. And I remember, I'm not sure how much discussed this with Earl off. But what went through? My head was home. My gosh. This might be a conspiracy here. I remember a rush of feeling Clark. You just have to get out of the year. Just run this dotty here. Is he thought about running something else rushed into his mind? The news flashes from the summer before Mississippi when three civil rights workers gone missing, and then six weeks later, the discovery of their murdered bodies in the mud buried deep in an earth dam. And I thought my body might be an additional night. So I was terrified. I really was, I was just terrified the driver in Dr decided to head back toward Selma on the rim of the wheel to a nearby radio station where they could call for another ambulance. The car that'd been trailing them turned in follow them to the station. It was a green Nash, metropolitan Clark remembered it as being full of men. But in fact, there was just one person in the car, a white man named John south. What south will later say about what he saw and didn't see that night outside the radio station that will have serious consequences for the story, and we'll get to all that later the Clark in the moment, there in the back of the ambulance, he watched is the green Nash metropolitan, turn to follow them. He and Orlov sat there in silence. For what seemed like forever is their driver ran inside the radio station to call another ambulance, as the all waited Clark, watch through the windows, several other white men arrived and circle. The ambulance peering inside talking with the driver suddenly dawned on me that often. Fire going to have to get out of the car and shift gyms, gurney over to the ambulance, the second ambulance, and these guys are walking around and what were they going to do to us? I didn't know. When we go out. And I started to work to take Jim's body over one of them came up to me and said, very unfriendly, tone, something, something as simple. Hey, what's happening here? And. All I could bring myself to say was, please don't. That's all I said. Please don't. And in fact, they did nothing. In fact, we were safe. In fact, we've moved Jim's body or gyms unconscious body over to the second Bula. Silence. In Boston, Jim Reeves wife. Marie heard the phone ring and rushed to pick up the receiver before it will there four kids. She just talked to a couple of hours before when he called from the payphone of the restaurant Selma. But now it was their minister hoping to catch from re before she turned on the eleven o'clock news. He told her the gym had been involved in an incident Soma, and that he was now an ambulance headed to Birmingham. The minister was careful to be about what exactly happened told her that she should began making arrangements to get to Alabama. Dr Allen was one of the surgeons on call at Birmingham, university hospital that night dick have been hired in July of nineteen sixty three just a couple of months before members of the Ku Klux Klan on the sixteenth street. Baptist church once they morning, killing four girls, and injuring dozens of others democrat been in the hospital, and it fell on him to pronounce the four little girls dead. And now the night of March ninth nineteen sixty five democ was home when he got a call about a head injury in route from Selma, this, man, the Reverend had been had just had a meal at a restaurant had just walked out and was attacked by mob and got hit the head. So I knew we had hit injury. And that's reason I'm wanted to make sure neurosurgeon was available to take care of him. When I got there to the emergency department, I was amazed at the mass of people that were there not just not just depressed. But everybody who was interested. The ambulance finally pulled into the emergency room entrance around eleven pm dick remember seeing the doors swing. Open the stretcher with general, then I remember vividly. We brought the patient into the one of the cubicles there, and I was standing over the head of the patient, he wouldn't read them. We'll so we had to do what we call a tracheotomy, and I looked up, and there was television camera grinding away the nurse couldn't walk across the room to get a suture or get addressing or anything because so many people in the room. So it was amiss hit was chaos and there as you can. Well, imagine. time read arrived down, Wednesday Jim was on life support. The hospital was keeping the press away from the family, but only on the promise that they could interview marine. She desperately did not want to have to be interviewed. But those around are told her that she had an obligation that this tragedy was not just a personal one. But that the whole world was watching and waiting for word from her. So just twenty four hours after husband had been attacked Marie walked into the hospital director's office, TV cameramen reporters photographers. There were crowded into the cramped space MAURICE behind the hospital. Director's desk, her hands were clashed in front of her. And she looked down at them or at the microphone throughout most of the interview was the decision for your husband to come here, a mutual decision. Did you sit down together discuss? Cave home about six of the evening. I was preparing supper. And he has to come upstairs to discuss a matter. He said that he wanted to go to some. And what I've thought about it, and I said that I would prefer that he didn't go. But I knew how he felt and I knew that he felt that he had to go. Did you have any communication with your husband prior to the time he was tacked? Yes, he called about eight to say that everything was fine, and that he would be home the next day, do you think the cause which your husband came to Soma was worth? I don't care. I don't feel that I can answer that for myself. I can only answer for Jim that to any consequences might occurred did. There. This. One of the last questions was about their four children, would have even told Marie answered I told the children this morning as soon as they woke up with their father had been heard the youngest ones did not fully understand, but the thirteen year old was quite upset. How Birmingham natives who would later go on to be executive editor of the New York Times was a cub reporter for the Birmingham, post herald nineteen sixty five Ray was in the in the hospital for two days, and I was dispatched there and obviously cupboard MRs Reeves press conference, but then as a young reporter remember, thinking this is important. This is a nationally important of it. This is not just some guy getting beaten the world is indeed watching the scale of this news. We were covering was large, an important three right men where arrested today in Alabama on charges of a salt with intent to murder, three white ministers on downtown street corner in Selma. Alabama last night after the violence on the bridge that Sunday, the eyes of the nation were already on some, the FBI lawyers for the department of Justice. They were all there on the ground and protests about buddy, Sunday now about the attack on rebe. We're putting intense. Pressure on president Lyndon Johnson. He event, some Selma had been brought to a climax by nighttime attack on white Boston minister by white men and throughout the nation. Even in Canada. There were marches through the streets of towns and cities in New York's Harlem more than fifteen thousand half of them, white vile, somberly through the streets in client, but I'd gone is protests. Civil rights protesters had even occupied part of the White House itself, and many Americans were calling on Johnson to send troops into Selma. So everyone in the White House was on edge, the president and his wife lady bird cinnabun cave yellow roses to Marie at the hospital in Birmingham. The Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach called the president of the day after the attack brief him on Reid's condition. LBJ recorded it as he did with almost all his calls. This ministers died. The already did. What do you think you? Tell me that he could pay another twenty four thirty six hours. These mechanical things, I think you've probably direly, I've arranged with the local authorities down there that when the minister died, they'll file I three murder charges. The next morning, the doctors, huddled with the read family, then laters keeping him alive. But there was no hope of recovery. Thursday late afternoon. Marie went to his bedside one final time. It's six fifty five for the third time in forty eight hours, gyms heart stopped, this time he was not revived soon after the phone ring. It was the president and the first lady calling to offer condolences to Marie, the president told Marie that he would send a government plane to take her back to Boston lady were later recruited her memories in audio diary. Come. The Reverend read it died Linden. I excused I was for a moment. A helpless painful moment, we talk to Mrs Read, but what is that? A say we went up stay as a little past ten within here, the congressional guests, they're laughing, the music steel going below and out in front, but chanting civil rights marches. What a house what alive. Joanne bland, gives her civil rights tours of Selma. She guides visitors through a small city of eighteen thousand people some as the fastest shrinking city in the state and almost forty percent of the residents here live below the poverty line. Whenever we drive around town, JoAnne. We passed by empty, lots with overgrown, weeds and trash homes. They're falling in on themselves. But where people are clearly still living when you drive people around who are not from Alabama. Never been to Selma for do people comment on just how many abandoned businesses. There are how many sort of broken down building, do you usually talk about it within like what do you say to them? Until them we had massive white flight several times. So when you take the money out of a place, whether you expect the system goes to the case system. Goes down everything goes down. So no jobs is hard to get any company to come here because they look back at that strife it never ever recovers, it always. And then we're so small, nobody to have the blight. That in large cities, you they'll just kill off a section. Yeah. Never take you over there, if you visited but still. Everything doesn't even need to see is where the blight is. I'm getting hot. Joanne has brought us to one more. Stop brown. Chapel AME the nerve center of the movement and Selma. And what JoAnn wants to show us is this giant granite marker out in front commemorates, the voting rights campaign up, top is a bust of Martin Luther King junior below that the names of Jim rebe, and two other people killed during the Selma campaign and the first months of nineteen sixty five so tell me about I mean, since this is radio. Tell me about the names because we talked about that a little, they talk about three of the deaths that were directly related to the Sam struggle. Reverend James read unitarian minister from Boston Rowlett grid lose. Oh, detroit. Housewife and dimly Jackson young man who was sought in Mariam bass state trooper. Well, let's go up a little higher. You see they say they gave their lives. Didn't give anything. They were murdered about hateful racist, people quit saying they were murdered their lives were taken not given. They were taken Jim Reeves death. It can't be separated from these other murders. Jimmy Lee Jackson, local black activist and deacon in the Baptist church was killed. I shot in mid-february thirty miles away in the town of Marian, and it's important to say his death is the initial catalyst for the March that would become Bloody Sunday. So Jim re would never have been in Selma without Jackson's murder in twenty ten forty five years later, the white state trooper who pulled the trigger admitted to shooting Jackson, he's been only five months in jail. Viola Yuzo a white woman was killed after Jim Rome in late March. She had comes out to help with the voting rights move, and while driving between some Montgomery, she was overtaken by carful of Klansmen who shot into a car and killed her two of the men's ten years in prison. Another man died before sentencing and another man in the car because it was an. FBI informant lived the rest of his life in the witness protection program. But all these associated with the voting rights struggle in Selma, only Jim Reeves remains officially unsolved three men were arrested and charged with his murder, but at a trial in December of nineteen sixty five it took a jury only ninety seven minutes to find the defendants not guilty. The F B I reopened the case in two thousand eight but they to of intially abandoned saying quote the matter lacks prosecutive merit and should be closed in quote to this day. No one has ever been held accountable for the murder of Jim read. But why it was see is though he is miss off. And all of it would come to life because he was white, man. Wow. Did that come about that we can solve Jim is what we saw read? It's a hot defined these people who all about read. When we first started all this, that was our question to why is it so hard to know who kill Jim read this case was through the eyes of the nation of the president. How could it have not been solved? But it didn't take long to be reminded that in the south. There are no simple questions about the past. And as we started reaching out to people for the story we found a pervasive. Silence fell over so many so meals with any mention of ribs name. Message one. I understand you wanted to talk to me about whatever it is. They me out of it. Over the past three years. We've had plenty of calls like this and doors slammed in our faces a pistol brandished and one man. My father's age even lunch to me, grabbed me by the throat and threatened to put me in a garbage can whatever that means. But we kept going back, we've talked to hundreds of people here across the country report through thousands of pages of documents. We've made a dozen trips to archives and we've talked and we've argued and we've driven back and forth to some countless times, and we've done all this, because we wanted to know who kill Jim reap. We wanted to know why the truth about his murder has been so obscured in why it seemed so many people were intent on keeping it that way. And now we know and that's the story we're going to tell you the stories we tell about ourselves. They feel true and permanent like the skin. We were born into. But what if you found out that a story, you believe so strongly something you and the people around you had staked, so much of your lives on what if you found out that that's? Story was a lie. What would you do believe the truth? Or keep believing the lie. From NPR. This is white lies. The true story of what happened Jim Reid. White lies is produced by us Graeme Smith. The Colby Mr. bore Connor tone Neil with help from catch shook, Nick a researcher is Barbara van workum, rubber little editor with big assists from Keith woods. And Chris turbans. Saying. Audio engineers include James Willits, and Alex win skits music is composed by Jeff T bird special, thanks to the devotees for the use of this song. Take me to the speedway. Courtesy of estrus records, and Dave Kreider archival tape in this episode comes from Washington University in St Louis ABC, news, NBC news Pacifica, radio. Wwl TV Birmingham e footage and the Associated Press a big thank you to Chuck homes, and the staff of WBZ Birmingham. Also, mica rattener, actually messenger from NPR's legal team and Martin NPR standards and practices at our. Thanks to the team that created a visual record of the story. Alison hurt Scott Stroud Thomas Wilburn din. Delacruz the coal were back and desert fix checkout. NPR dot org slash white. Lies are project manager is Matilda yard Neil Caruth is general manager for podcasts. And onion, grunt is NPR's senior vice president program. If you need to be reminded that we're all more connected than we realize, get the story core podcast in restore your faith in humanity. Uninterrupted conversations between real people about the things that matter most and this season in honor of the fiftieth anniversary of the stonewall uprising, we're highlighting voices of LGBTQ, people across America stories from those who lived before stonewall today, episodes are available every Tuesday. That was the first episode of NPR's new podcast white lies. You can subscribe to what lies right now, new episodes drop every Tuesday. I'm Rachel Martin. And this is up. I we will be back Monday morning with all the news, you need to know. Support for NPR is brought to you by Columbia gas running out of hot water can be aggravating, switch to natural gas with Columbia, gas and get long-lasting high water and the efficiency that can save you money. Visit Columbia gas, VA dot com slash switch to get started.

Selma Lafon Jim Alabama murder Marie Jim Reeves Martin Luther King Clark NPR president Boston JoAnne bland Clark Orlov Birmingham Birmingham Jim rebe Rachel Martin
Writer Carl Hiaasen's Satirical Take On Florida Life

Fresh Air

48:14 min | 3 months ago

Writer Carl Hiaasen's Satirical Take On Florida Life

"The from whyy in Philadelphia this is fresh air I'm Dave Davies in for Terry, gross on Today Show, Miami Herald columnist and author Carl Hiaasen. His new novel is a hilarious mystery set in Palm Beach featuring wealthy widows, d- The president and first lady and some gigantic Burmese pythons. It's called squeeze me. We'll talk about hyacinth satirical takes on Florida life about the told the covid nineteen pandemic taking after the state open bars and beaches, and we'll talk about politics and battled over voting in the state that are setting the stage for a dramatic election in November. Haya says Floridians expect problems and just hope things are worse in another state so they don't get the attention. Also John Powers reviews the new documentary about a US supported coup, which overthrew an elected government in Iran in one, thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, three. If, you want to know what's going on in Florida. The land of hanging Chads exotic wildlife and baseball's biggest COVID nineteen outbreak. A good place to start is with Carl Hiaasen, a floor of the native longtime columnist for the Miami, Herald and the author of fifteen novels. His latest is a hilarious crime story set in Palm Beach involving wealthy widows, the president and First Lady, a scrappy wildlife relocation specialist and some very large Burmese pythons which probably have something to do with the title of the Book Squeeze Me. We last spoke to Carl Hiaasen about his novel bad monkey involving a show business primate whose career was on the skids we decided with Florida facing a viral pandemic and another potentially contested presidential election. It was time to talk again, Carl Hiaasen joins me via an Internet connection from his office in Vero. Beach Florida Carl Hiaasen. Welcome back to fresh air I'm glad to be here. This story said in Palm Beach Florida which a lot of people kind of just it's a name they here maybe confuse it with you know Palm Springs described Palm Beach and this place why it's a good setting for the story. Well it's IT'S A it's an island It's a barrier island right off of the city of West Palm Beach and it's very exclusive and it it's Laura goes back to the to the Kennedy compound and beyond you know when when JFK was president and Joe Kennedy had a place there and then way beyond that generations of wealth have have have. fled to Palm Beach in the wintertime from the northeast, it's sort of a traditional enclave for money mainly and it's It's very beautiful and it's very silly at the same time, which is you know what attracts you know the I of novelist I mean it it's it is a gorgeous place, but the the social scene is. It's challenging if you're writing satire. you know this story begins with the disappearance of a woman, a wealthy widow, who's a bit of a swinger and she's last seen at a high end charity fundraiser on the grounds of a place called the Lipid House with the fundraisers to raise money for. Was It eerily Bowel Syndrome? Yes. It's IBS thing it was called the you know the the white Ibis Ball. Synonymous sort of with the with the disease or disorder. I'm sorry. I forgot what they call it. Anyway they have charity functions on a nightly basis in palm. Beach. So I had to. Sort of come up with some ideas for maybe some causes that had not been And had not been fully publicized so I but it's it's hard to make up something wilder than what I mean I. It's literally a nightly thing during the season these big events and they raise lots of money for good causes. But all kinds of stuff goes on there and you know local islands scandal and romance and intrigue. So it seemed like a good way to start the book All sorts of stuff goes on at these high end fundraisers. Well Yeah. You know it's just the Society World I. Mean You have you know this is. This is this is this like the Hamptons with extra sunblock really and and there are more plastic surgeons per square mile in the Palm Beach I. Suppose in the Hamptons. But other than that you know it's just it's a scene. So as a writer you're attracted I don't get invited don't get me wrong. They're not. They're not crazy enough to invite me to a lot. Of these vans but the ones I've attended have been colorful inspirational enough that I sort of filed what I was watching away and thought this would be a fun way to open a book. One of the things that's interesting is that the president and first lady are characters in this story because this president like the current occupant of the White House has a big place. in Palm Beach his his called Casa Belco a rather than Laga, tell us a little bit about the president's connection with Palm Beach in your story and these ladies who are so enamored of him. Well in the novel, the President vacations here frequently and he has He has a fan base in Palm Beach that includes his group of ladies who are incredibly loyal address. Patriotically and flamboyantly whenever he comes to town and they always try to be at the club when he's there and they, they've also throw an an annual ball or gala for him and they They live for just seeing him on property. He's like one of the Beatles to them and he and he and he always is kind enough when he's standing in line at the pastry table to wave to wave to them as they sit at the table and their their wealthy, they're older, the some of them are divorced some of them widowed some of them both divorced and widowed, and they have a lot of free time and the book opens with one of them disappearing at this at this big fundraiser, and of course, it is. So it isn't just anybody who who vanishes. It's somebody who's particularly loyal. To the president. So there's a higher level of interest taken in this disappearance and there would be if it was just an ordinary citizen that that banish this is this is one of his group this and I don't WanNA use the term groupies but but it's it's one of his loyal female fans. It turns out that the wealthy widow whose disappeared at this high end fundraiser met an end which involves a snake, a huge Burmese Python and away pythons are kind of it's kind of a central character in this story, and that comes from something that's really going on in Florida. Tell us about pythons and their effect on the state. Well, we've had a- all you have to do is Google Florida and pythons, and you'll get once the yesterday a story ran. This is true story a woman down in south Florida opened washing machine, and there was a big ass python curled up her washing machine and. They've proliferated they. They've started out in the in the in the pet trade and people they get the particular species get huge and they let them they just let him go and. Hurricane Andrew A bunch of Sort of the reptile farms on the edge of the everglades and they were destroyed during Hurricane Andrew and all the babies got loose and ever since then the everglades and points onward have been these snakes have taken over the it's actually quite a series story they've devastated a huge part of the food chain in the late eat everything including ears, alligators and any snake that can eat it. Adult alligators were paying attention to. So those are real everything in the book about the pythons is absolutely true and they are moving northward as as the climate gets warmer, they're moving northward out of the everglades. In so in my view, it's only a matter of time before they show up in. Palm Beach and I sort of wrote this book for for people who couldn't be there when it happened. We don't know them actually eating a society matron dewey. Not yet no. But here's they did find one that had a seventy four pound whitetail deer in it, and so my thought was that it's not a big jump up to you know a an heiress a petite heiress and then being somewhat elderly not particularly quick afoot. You know if I've I've held been part of a group that held a python that was sixteen feet and I'll tell you it's formidable. Case. The Society Matron Kiki Pugh fitzsimmons disappears and I don't think he's giving away too much this. All happens pretty early in the book to say that this huge python is discovered by the gardening staff which noticed this massive bulge in the Middle Concluding Oh my heavens that's keep you in the Middle I know it sounds it actually sounds sick when you describe it like that I thought it would a little funnier but but the point is nature you know I mean in all the novels I've written nature is always sort of its own character and I always root for. Always I just growing up in Florida. I always ended up rooting for Mother Nature and the pythons now part of that and and they really are kind of unstoppable and and so I just thought well, what if this happens and what if it happens one of these events? especially. When you have the kind of security levels that you have with when when the president is in town and all that stuff. So they just opened a lot of sort of the subplot possibilities as well, and you know one one point in the novel the First Lady is in her motorcade going down the street and West Palm Beach and a break to all brake to a stop which they never tried to do in those motor case because there's a big. A Big Dead Python, the road and and that is actually happened and I mean. This is how prolific these things are but those scenes that you sort of. figure out a way to use. You know maintaining appearances is important in Palm Beach and the groundskeeper of this place hosted the the Lipid House. The last thing that they need is to have the world learn that a guest somehow ended up. Being digested by a python a bad for business. This must be avoided at all costs so they summon. Relocation specialist who kind of becomes a central character. In this book Angie Armstrong tell us a little about her. I like I like her tremendously when I started writing squeeze me the character of the Wrangler and we had these businesses in south. Florida. Because there's so much interaction with wildlife still that you call up this somebody, could you got a raccoon your porch you got a snake you got. A Bob Cat in your backyard whatever it is they come and they're trained to humanely capture and remove these animals. But. Most of the businesses are run by is you know they're the guys with gaily decorated pickup trucks that you can call critter removal experts but I so that was the character when I started but then I thought got it'd be so much more fun and interesting if it was a woman and I and so then I went back and started over with with. Angie and I liked her tremendously she's not very big issue. No, she's not what you would imagine someone that could could remove a you know a ten foot alligator from your swimming pool, but she can and and so I just I the more she was around I liked her as I was writing the novel and and she has passed and a history and she. Out As A. You know a as a veterinarian and worked with their dad and then went to become a state wildlife officer and gone some trouble with when she Punished a poacher that she caught in, punish them in somewhat of an unusual way and so she ended up in this job just driving this pickup truck answering calls, and so she gets a call that there's a python. You know it's another python call. So she drives out the Palm Beach and figures finds out it isn't really just another python calm and she has a. Real sense of right wrong did did you spend time with people that do this business to prepare for this? Now I have a friend I have a friend who who wrangles animal. He's not a an all remove expert, but he does it for movies and stuff you know in for documentaries. But I see the guys around and I've grown up down here I've done. I mean, a couple of months you know I mean I've done some of it. Not Out as a profession, but just out of necessity there was. You know there was a possum under the barbecue the other a couple months ago. So I just grabbed them I mean, I mean, just you're just. When you're a kid you grew up in a place like Florida, you learn how to do that stuff but the Dow it's a whole little industry because the Mo. so many people that moved here from up north. You don't get a lot of people that naturally know how to pick up a possum. You know I, mean most people just pick up the phone how do you grab a possum? By by the tail. That's what I figured and their and their by definition links stab case just just in case by the by just been case by the tail but you know, I, mean I I was a kid I had ped- raccoons at all I, mean we're just wasn't. You know were sort of on the edge of the everglades where we lived and there wasn't there weren't. You know they weren't skate parks and shopping malls and stuff you just got on your bike and you went out into the woods and so was a different kind of childhood in and I think that it has all the books I ride even the kids books because. I wouldn't trade it for anything, but I certainly gives you a a range of experiences. A lot of a lot of normal kids probably don't have. There's a moment in the book where this well, by officer Angie is lamenting the way. Out of Control Development has taken away habitat and endangered so many species and I read that and I said that's Carl hiaasen talking yeah. No absolutely I it's it's it's something Ever, since I people ask me when I started feeling I mean I can remember being six six years old seven years old and having the same feelings to see the development coming and see. You know the the places that were kind of wild and remote and special to me and my friends to see them paved over I. Think it has A. It has an effect and it certainly certainly creates a you know I think I think satire of satire comes from sense of anger and injustice. you know it's supposed to be funny but there's also. It's the great thing is having a raiders who who know why it's funny who are Oh who get it that it isn't slapstick it's you know it's it's it's a form of commentary. It's also a form of any grieving for for the damage that's been done to this place. Florida has long been fascinating and weird and a politically divided state, and this is a broad question But how has nearly four years of the trump presidency affected the state? Well I. Mean it's hard to say if it's affected it worse than the rest of the country but because he spent so much time here I think his presence is felt and. Our governor. You know Rhonda Santa's is is a big trump guy and he's you know he's He's like a little mini trump and and and and extremely loyal and and. So a lot of what's been happening the last few months with the pandemic has been guided by him listening more to trump and listening to actual people with medical degrees and in they'll countries seen a product of that I was going to ask about that the pandemic has blazed a unique trail through Florida in some respects and. You're Governor Rhonda. Santa's who was a congressman until. Two thousand eighteen was very active supporter of president trump and congressman than one a very close governor's race in two, thousand eighteen. For people who don't follow this closely just give us a thumbnail of how he has handled the pandemic and its effects. Well. I mean he's he's You know he's smart dude you went to he went to Harvard and Yale and he he he's good. You know he likes the numbers. So the numbers were becoming out early on in the pandemic and no matter how bad they were. He was able to say look at this trend is going this way this trend just be patient we gotta and then in May back in May basically did a victory lap and said, look we flattened out we beat this thing guys in the media said it was and it just. Went on a rant about the media creating all this this hysteria about covert and then, and then of course, the went through the roof it the the there was he went up to the White House with the dog and pony show brought some bought some poster boards for the President and had a photo op and talked about how Florida Concord at all and then Florida. We just exploded with the stuff because he opened up we opened up too fast with state opened. Up, too fast and It was bars beaches even disneyworld right bars beaches it was a it was a cluster and and the result was that no sooner had that happened within weeks they were shutting down bars and they were become more restrictive on some of the beaches and they're still places where this was going on, and now they're now they've had go back and shut down the bars and they're even yanking liquor licenses of some of these places but. To hear him tell it. It's just been a natural trajectory of the of the disease you know which is Baloney It could have been prevented in the meantime we're now over eight hour we're GONNA. Coming up on nine thousand deaths. in in the state, of Florida, nine thousand deaths, and those are sell dimension when when Ronnie gets up to give his pep talk once a day that the deaths are seldom discussed and and we you know we seem to have sort of written off. the elderly. There's a sense of, Oh, well, they were going to die anyway but that's not true. some of the folks that the this is ravaging the nursing homes and care facilities they weren't sick. They were just there their only crime was being old. And every one of those eight thousand plus who've died there's there's families that have have been devastated and because of this and so there will be a I mean there is being a political cost to this sort of You know this rosy glass glass half full attitude our opening the schools and and guess what's going to happen. I mean. Guess, what's going to happen with the Kobe testings in the public schools? it's just You know and it's it's sad because there will be the cost of this is not just an you know teachers leaving because they're scared and kids who desperately need to get back to school not being able to the the cost. There's actual cost of human lives that isn't funny and it is it isn't anything but callous and cold blooded to say this is going to be the cost of keeping a few TIKI bars open. Yeah. We'll. Just we'll just take the hit. We'll bury a few people and keep the Tiki bars open you. You mentioned that he is in some ways a lot like president trump is very close to president trump and I read that in the early weeks of the pandemic that he tended to rely on a very narrow group of people on me I guess his wife and she staff still does. So I was just GonNa ask if that had changed since obviously how Things have gotten more. We have a we have a, we have a surgeon general in the student. Nobody's heard from We've got no, it's it's it's been strictly political. In fact, they they. They said when they ordered all schools to reopen the. County's could. School district could make the decision to keep classrooms closed. If they're county if their area of the state was having a spike, all they needed to do was get the health department, their local health department to approve it, and then the Santa's went to the health departments said, don't approve it. So what he said publicly, and then what was done was to base that we muzzle the health department. Every place is different. Every part of Florida's a little different there counties in Florida, where it might be safe physically reopened schools, and of course, in south Florida there they're delaying they're. Doing Online, but they're still have to open some of the buildings and everybody wants the kids to go back to school. Everybody wants to schools to reopen but you don't want your kid to get sick or to bring a disease home that that that kills one of his siblings or his grandfather or his grandmother or an aunt or their parents. I mean, that's just common sense you don't want. But at this point, the local health departments can't give advice to the local school districts about whether it's safe or not. The governor's people won't let them. So that's where we are. And there's not a medical voice to be heard on this anywhere in Florida. At the San is's it's just a bunch of political hacks around. Carl hyacinths latest book is squeeze me. He will be back to talk more after this break I'm Davies. This is fresh air. Support for this podcast and the following message come from the Glenn Limits New Caribbean reserve expression a new single with a bold tropical twist that is selectively finished and barrels that previously held Caribbean rum offering a sweet and smooth taste learn more at the glenlivet dot com, the Glenlivet Caribbean Reserves Single Malt, Scotch whisky enjoy our quality responsibly forty percent alcohol by volume eighty proof twenty, twenty imported by the Glenlivet distilling company in New York. We're speaking with Carl Hiaasen and native of Florida who's written about the state's politics culture, wildlife and development for decades. He's a columnist for the Miami Herald and the author of fifteen novels his latest is squeezed me. We know it's been twenty years since the Bush Gore presidential election came down to the Florida recount. But the state has kind of remained a place of closely contested elections meal last two presidential races. The less three governors. Races were margins of about one percent What should we expect in November? Oh everything's good. I go smoothly wonderfully here. What do you think? Exact here's what we do every every four years in Florida collectively as Floridians we all pray that doesn't come down to Florida. We this year are bed. On Georgia Georgia looks like it's going to screw this up even worse than Florida did and We're looking for another scapegoat. We do not want to be the butt of Colbert's jokes every night but the odds are of going smoothly here are very, very slim, which was interesting because. The president who says you know male voting is fraudulent but no evidence whatsoever that that's true. It's suddenly somebody sat down and said, you're not going to win Florida without the mail in vote because your demographic wants to mail it in. So then he comes out. Okay it's safe for Florida's the one state that's done it right and we all fell out of our chairs laughing Florida is is the one it's perfectly safe in Florida. Because he realizes that he's GONNA lose. There's without the mail in vote in floor somebody finally did the math for him and and so apparently, all the other forty nine states mailing voting is bad but Florida's great. So you know it's can't. It can't possibly go with you know. Because I. All pandemic people are scared to go to the polls. This is going to be true everywhere. So they're just even finding poll workers to go is going to be difficult because people are afraid of getting covid nineteen. Can't possibly go well here and our only hope is that it goes worse somewhere else. So we don't have all the attention on the day after the election. Well, it's not exactly encouraging. You know one of the things that has happened since the last election was there was a state constitutional amendment. Restoring voting rights to convicted felon to have completed their sentences passed by an overwhelming majority of Floridians and ignored and and sabotage. As best everyday the Republicans could possibly do it at this isn't the first time a popular amendment has been subverted, and that's what they're trying to do here. What will the specific issue here was fines and court costs that ex offenders may? Oh, right. You have to have those paid before you can register and so far that's held up in the courts, right? It has held up in the courts, but that doesn't mean that I mean I. I think the Santa's is going to keep pressing it. I think you know this is part of the vote suppression thing and and it goes going on in the whole country, and so they'll. They'll spend a ton of money taking it from one court to another but so far the. Legality of the amendment and of leading people vote even if they haven't paid their fines yet because you've been in prison. So. You're not going to walk out and be able to write a check. For Your court costs. I. Mean That's just not realistic and it's not fair but they're gonNA attack whatever they can. They're gonNA do everything they can to keep as many. As they can away from the polls. That's a given I. don't know what how it's going to shake down between now and November weather. so far they've been. You know they've been the Republicans have been unsuccessful in corporate. They're not gonNA give up. Apart from the pandemic and politics. What else are you paying attention to in your column in the Herald Now? Well there's the I wish there were more to pay attention to than that It's just it's because of these resurgence of the virus you know there was a time when you could go back I mean I used to write fairmount about the environment and about environmental issues but that hasn't been the focus of legislation and hasn't been the. Truth of the general public has been more focused on their own safety as they should be in the safety of their children so. You're right about education. You're right about the job sort of coping with. Pandemic and then politics all meshed into that. But other than that there's there's not a lot you can. You can write about there's some sometimes they'll be some you know some of the travel restrictions or some, but it's all tied into those things because those are the that's the headlines Right. Now you've got this election, my heavens, you have to leave the developers alone. Yeah I mean it's killing me but here's the other side of the coin is a lot of that stuff is slowed down to because of. Because of the economy, you know. So you one of the things in Florida that we've written about and the heralds done some great stuff on the unemployment, the backup in unemployment payments because of the this incompetent administrators of this W- of this website where you signing up there just thousands and thousands thousand Floridians who Who had their their unemployment checks delayed including the ones from the federal government because it comes through the state they were delayed on still some still haven't gotten him yet months after the started people lost their jobs because the system the website kept crashing wouldn't let them on the stories I mean it's unbelievable how many people couldn't pay their grocery bill or the? The rent for sure anything because they couldn't get their first unemployment check that's been a huge scandal here, and the Santa's has complain and complain about the company that got the contract do that the years ago got the contract to run the on employment the program here, and yet the same company was just awarded a one hundred and thirty five, million dollar contract for another job in his administration. So to maintain Medicaid data, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I mean that that stuff that stuff is out there I think. There's going to be huge stories and lots of calms to write about how much of this, the the the the aid money the. You know the the money that was given out to fight the pandemic just stolen. We had that classic Florida Story of the Guy that. got a bunch of money from the government claiming all these unemployed people claiming his company in any went out and bought a Lamborghini first thing he did and it turns out he didn't have as many employees as he told, and yet he got the check that he went out and bought a some purple Lamborghini or something that's a classic Florida story, of course. He probably moved here just to do that. Florida is a state that kind of known for extremes as you've said, and and it's there have been some kind of notable details that have come out like like the guy who dressed up in A. Hooded Black, robe carrying aside who walked around beaches, and then the read recently that the sheriff of central North Central. County issued an order banning his deputies and visitors to the sheriff's office from wearing masks. Yes, he did. star billy something that otherwise Marion County. Yeah. That's he He was. He said you cannot wear masks in the Sheriff Department? You can't wear them on. A normal course duty anyone who comes to the of Department for instance, if you wanted to come to file a police report, let's say your car was stolen there. Let's say. You know you have any reason to come in you have to take your mask off before walkie into the sheriff's department he he's like he's like if you elected the tiger king sheriff of that's what this dude would be. Let me reintroduce you again we're gonNA take a break here we're speaking with author and Miami Herald Columnist Carl Hiaasen. His latest novel is called Squeeze Me. Since we recorded our interview Sheriff Billy Woods has modified his ban on face masks a bit visitors to the Marion County Florida sheriff's department are now permitted to wear masks if they so choose however deputies and other staff in the sheriff's Office are still forbidden to wear masks while on duty. We'll hear more of my conversation with Carl Hiaasen after a break this is fresh air black voters play a crucial role for any Democrat who seeks to win the White House but some big devise amongst that block and some serious ambivalence could determine who is elected president November. Listening now on the coast, which podcast from NPR. This is fresh air and we're speaking with Carl Hiaasen his latest novel is called Squeeze me. This latest book is dedicated to your brother Rob who was one of five journalists killed two years ago in a mass shooting at the Annapolis Maryland Capital Gazette where he was an editor and a columnist. He was your only brother a six years younger than you right Just tell us a little bit about grown up with him Well Rob we call him big rob because he was he was the baby of the family, but he was he was six foot five and just you know the Gentle giant as they say and he was very gifted writer tremendous journalist. He worked for many years at Palm Beach, post the Baltimore Sun, and then became an editor and columnist in You didn't want to leave Maryland. He loved Maryland and he went to the the paper in Annapolis and. was He was in the newsroom that day and The day this guy walked in with a gun and just started shooting and it was. You know something that's still hard talk about because you know it was his wife's birthday and the you know the kids are all close by grown but the I don't WanNa make it sound. There's so many families tragically so many families that are part of this. Community of of survivors of you know the victims of mass shootings that when something like this happens whether it's in a workplace when it's in a factory whether it's an at park land wherever it is. It's hard to know when you're watching the news or appreciate is the ripple effect of these tragedies on families it just goes on and on and on for every for every victim there's so many people that are. Affected by the shooting and we've become part of that community and and been able to appreciate. What everyone else goes through nothing's going to. Bring Rob back obviously. But all I ever wanted was for people to know that he he was a gifted in funny guy a great writer tremendous. Tremendous talent and and and I just you know there isn't a day that goes by that. We don't think about them and and try not to think about what happened that day you know. Right you know it. It's I. Know You've written a lot about mass shootings in I. Think you went to high school not far from the Parkland high school yeah. Both are Robin I, and my sister's all went to high school at Plantation High, which is not far off from Park Land and Robin I had talked. After the par- know was a few months before the shooting in an apples and he and I, of course at talked about it and having kids. especially. In just how A you know how shocking overwhelming and I don't care how many of these stories you cover right about I mean. We. Had the Paul. Shooting. And in Orlando, there's just been so many of these horrible horrible things and and we talked on the phone and and whether you know there isn't much except to can't believe it happened. So close to where we Grew up in everything, and then of course, it happened to him. Yeah. I mean your grief now part of a national story and I just wondered. God, what must that be like and will you cover the next one differently or will you avoid covering the next one? Is. A columnist. You know I it's not like I have to go to the crime scene tank Elida I'm but you still have to try to put it in perspective and I have written about. you know alluded a wrote one took me a long time couple months to be able to write about it after rob died and then. And then in subsequent Collins when there's been these other tragedies of course I've I've a alluded to the fact that you know have some personal experience with the stuff but I don't know that you know they're going to. The thing is they just keep happening and they're going to continue to happen. And there's just. There's just too many nuts with guns too many and and I you know and I say that as a gun owner myself I mean I, it's just insane how easy it is to get a gun in this country to end and and whether it's an automatic weapon or shotgun or whatever it just it's just lunacy to how easy it is and how how easy it is for bad people to do it and then people who have mental issues and. We prayed these stories again and again about. how how like the Park Land Shooter House family you know everybody knew he was unstable and everybody was afraid this was going to happen and they call the FBI and said this kid's GonNa shoot somebody I, mean you have all that and you still can't stop it. So there's not an easy solution you can put into a column or into. Any common op ed piece because the the tragedies just keep coming I. I'm not sure that you added anything to the debate or or help the. help the feelings except to keep reminding people that not all countries are like this. Not everybody goes through this like we do in this country they just don't and it's it's it's normal. It becomes a routine here. It's not routine anywhere else. You know the The column that you wrote. After your brother's death I guess it was in September, which I think the shooting was in June. So it it was a little while and I really commend this to to listeners. You can find it on the Internet and in it before you reveal that your brother had died in the Annapolis attack, you mentioned the other four journalists who died Gerald Fishman, John, McNamara becky Smith Windy winters, and then you note that your brother Rob was also killed and you right I mentioned him last because that's what he would have wanted he also would have wanted me to write more about his colleagues than about him. You WANNA share it another couple of points that you made in column. I It's hard a what tell you two things that come to my mind. If you what one is that as you said. It was his wife, his birthday that he was murdered on left her present on the dining room table before he made his last trip to the newsroom. The other thing you wrote is that he was not somebody who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now, he was right where he wanted to be. He was putting out the daily newspaper and that's He not stumble into a crime scene he did not. he didn't come in. He wasn't coming in on his day off he was doing exactly what he loved doing, which is sitting in the newsroom with other reporters and editors putting out a daily newspaper for a community. That he loved the people of Annapolis, I mean he he thought he he he was devoted to those readers that community and that he wouldn't have been anywhere else on that day. So isn't it? The CNN bro Kin let the story about the shooting I have to say that there was no. I was praying he he was out to launch praying. He wasn't there that I had. He's stepped out or to go to the parks, throw football around with some of the other guys or something by I was praying now but. Feet down I knew that's that he was there because he was always there you know and that's what That's what you do. That's if that's your job and that's what you're passionate. That's what you do. So He wasn't a random victim he was and he was killed because he was there because he was a journalist at a newspaper that this guy had a grudge with none of the people he shot at anything to do with the story that he was upset about what had happened years earlier none of the people there had anything to do with either editing or putting that story in the paper, but he just decided shoot everybody anyway. So and you made the point that there's a lesson here about the way we regard and treat journalists these days. Yeah I mean, this was at a time when of course. Trump is not the first president to demonize gentlest I mean that. Not, in my lifetime, there's a guy named Nixon who did a lot of that too I mean the press is never beloved has never been beloved institution and you don't go into it as a as a profession because you want glory or adulation are you want people to look up to your love you you go in to to right the truth to put to put facts out that that's what democracy can function if if the public is not fully informed and and it's it, it nobody goes into it to make money by the way because it doesn't pay. Very much it's. It's so the the people that are doing it and doing the grunt work in there because they believe. They believe that it's an important part of this of this country and to have a free press and have a to. To get information into the hands of people who needed before they go to the polls and they go to vote before they. Take their kids to school before I all this stuff. It's just the bare essential of a democracy. So yeah, I mean. You know. It is it is bothersome you. We now have not just contempt for the press but you know and hatred these these conspiracy clowns See if they ever saw a news really work, it would be amusing to them. Right. I know expect time in newsrooms myself I know what you mean. Car Highs and I. I, wish you comfort and good things for your state. Thanks so much for speaking with us again now Dave, it was great talking to you and I appreciate you taking so much time. Carl. Hiaasen. Is a columnist for the Miami Herald. His latest novel is squeezed me. Coming up John Powers reviews a new documentary about the US supported coup, which overthrew an elected government in Iran in nineteen, fifty three this is fresh air. We're only months away from election day and week or even every few hours. There's a new twist that could affect who will win the White House to keep up with the latest tune into the NPR politics podcast every day to find out what happened and what it means for the election. Hi It's Terry. Gross inviting you to check out our new online archive collecting forty years of fresh air interviews and reviews. You can hear my interviews with people like David Bowie aretha Franklin Johnny Cash John Updike Tommy Morrison, searched for names. You're interested in make a playlist for yourself or friends at fresh air archive dot org that's fresh air archive dot org the new documentary coup fifty three tells the story of how in Nineteen fifty three, Great Britain and the United States overthrew the elected prime minister of Iran. Coup fifty-three will be available for online screening starting tomorrow with tickets purchased through one of three hundred local cinemas. The filmmakers are supporting through the effort you can find out how to watch at Ku fifty three dot com are critic at large John Powers highly recommend that you do. He says coup fifty three isn't just important. It's as gripping as a spy novel ever since the late nineteen seventies when the Iranian revolution overthrew the Shah and took fifty two US citizens. Hostage of two nations have been at loggerheads. Washing decade after decade of mobs, burning all the glory on the streets of Tehran, many Americans have wondered why people in such a far away country are so angry with the United States. For an answer, you couldn't do better than to start with coup fifty, three and exhilarating new historical documentary that unfold with the pace and complexity of a thriller. Co directed by Tugging Irani and renowned film editor, Walter Merch Cool. fifty-three tells the story of Operation Ajax in which Britain's M I six and the American CIA. The forcible removal of Iran's elected prime. Minister Mohammad Messiah. Dick. Although many of us, don't know much about this one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, three, coup, it shockwaves rattle our history to this day. Coup fifty-three structure. But like one of those John macari spy novels in which George Smiley goes around talking to people to tease out who did what and when. We follow the likable marooning over nearly a decade as he roots around for information, a quest that carries him from national security archives in DC and dusty basements in Paris too glitzy apartments inhabited by Moore monsters. Along the way he talks to C. I. A. Operatives Historians, espionage experts, TV cameramen victim Assad ix ouster beneficiaries of his ouster, and an array of ruling class Brits who are simply staggering in their complacency, racism and entitlement. Merges I is the back story of the coup which like so much in the modern Middle East is predicated on oil. Shortly. After the black gold was discovered in early twentieth century Iran, a British oil company now known as BP locked up a sweetheart deal for its exploitation. Here reporter and historian Stephen Kinzer explains what that meant. By a bit of testimony from Brit who worked for the company under the original agreement. Only, about sixteen percent of the oil revenue was supposed to be given to. Iran. But that sixteen percent was going to be calculated by the British and no Iranian would be allowed to look at the books. We now know also that the amount was calculated after the oil company paid its taxes. Now, the oil company was owned by the British government. So when it was paying taxes, it was essentially paying taxes to itself. We went any of files we weren't hanging over counts, which is fall I said, I had no them. British companies a countless. From London. So it was a lot of creative accounting, but in the end, it was clear that almost all the money from this tremendous resource going into Britain and almost none coming back to Iran. Naturally Iranians resented this deal and the British habit of treating them like animals. Mossadeq was an area died and charismatic Persian endured by the masses and when he came to power, he nationalized the oil industry expropriating the British oil companies assets. The outrage British decided to take masonic down. Though it was at first reluctant Harry, Truman got along with Masonic White Eisenhower's of cold warriors wrongly saw this nationalist conservative as a potential tool of Moscow, he had to go. How that happens is the heart of the film which paints fascinating detailed picture of how impractical terms you go about toppling popular foreign leader it all starts with spreading around money, and maybe you're arranging a couple of assassinations. The key figure in the operation was a mysterious. Am I six agent named Norman Derbyshire who talked to the media once for a TV series on the British Empire. Before, it could air the British government removed his interview from the program as sought to eliminate the transcript of his words. But in Koo fifty three's big discovery Amrani Earth's a photocopy of the original transcript and reenact the interview with refines. Brilliantly. Impersonating. Darbyshire. For years I thought the CIA was the prime mover, the coup, but I was wrong. With her out of guilt craftsman's pride, Derbyshire wanted the world to know the truth he explains how she and the British choreographed the fault of Masonic and blithely installed as prime minister the Ghastly General Fuss Lula's Zahedi, a notorious black marketeer who conspired with the Nazis. So Haiti serve at the whim of the then young Shah whom the Americans considered gutless spoiled. But now back to the hilt, even training his famously brutal secret police. Britain, and America has seemingly gotten what they wanted including their cut of Iranian oil. But. His coup fifty three reminds us history loves unintended consequences. Over the British ran the COO the Americans immediately replaced them as the dominant foreign power in Iran. As for the Shah, his harsh rain eventually spawned the Islamic Revolution leading to more than forty years of oppressive rule by Mullah's who see the US not Britain as its prime enemy. Perhaps needless to say, they also took over Iran's oil industry the reason for the coup in the first place. John powers reviewed the new documentary coup fifty three. On tomorrow's show. The hero Shema cover up writer Leslie Bloom tells the story of journalist, John Hersi who's reporting in nineteen forty six revealed the death destruction and radiation poisoning from the atomic bomb dropped on hero Shema that US military censors had kept under wraps her new book is called Fallout I. Hope you can join us. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham with additional engineering support this week from Charlie Kyler, our interviews and reviews are produced an edited Amy Salad Phyllis. Myers San Brigger Transall Heidi Soman Theresa Madden they challenger Seth Kelly Joel Wolfram, and Kayla Lattimore. Our associate producer of digital media is Molly seavy Nesper Roberta shorrock directs the ship for Terry Gross I'm Dave Davies. Tech.

Florida president Carl Hiaasen Fresh Air Palm Beach Miami Herald White House Iran United States John Powers writer West Palm Beach everglades Dave Davies Palm Beach Florida Iran Lipid House Palm Beach Angie Armstrong
54: Our Giro stage 9: Magic Nights

The Cycling Podcast

1:18:45 hr | 7 months ago

54: Our Giro stage 9: Magic Nights

"An soem which anyone outside just stunned by Jan Anini. The two very big routes doesn't it today You're listening to the cycling. Podcast at our data. The time yeah brought to you by. I woke up flexible. Loans bid for small businesses. Today we are in Kelvin. Nickel say that she says you also say element. We'd all be Lionel. We are in the shadow of REFUGIO CALIBAN ECO zone Cologne at the south. The Michiko not pretending mountain is we'll hear a little bit more about that shortly. Stage nine of our Jira loft one before a little restaurant looking forward to rest day. You how your legs line will. That's still in one piece justified but out year already so on targeting into Chiro trying to make it halfway each day still tough up and get some flack in the press on those race directive trying. I'm trying to focus on the job and I'm trying not to pay too much attention to the the. What was the phrase the critics in the skeptics? The same yeah. I'm not sure if I believe in the miracle of me. Finishing our Chiro at this point in the in the other Jiro Mara is normally getting stick for lots of really boring. Stage isn't a no are Daniele. Freeport Chini the nothing boring about our stages so far if you're writing them as I'm hoping they'll be all sorts of the bills privileges. And blandishments come my way as a result of the director of Jiro watching when I was researching are upset on cipollini. Us Her clip. If there's a clip on Youtube of cipollini Marubeni attending white truffle symposium together as you do sounds great love takes me neatly onto Lionel. What's coming up in tonight's episode? That's not one for you Daniel. Before we got to tell the top of what is coming up tonight. Well Rich. I think we heard in our intro hint of what's coming up very famous Italian song. We can talk more about the Magic Knights the magic days. What they are what they were later. We're basically going to be going back to nineteen ninety. The summer of Nineteen Ninety heady days giddy days for Italy for Johnny the winner of the Jewelry Talia. The leader of the GEO from stage want to the end of the race in Milan. Only man to do that. I think incorrect. I knew if you've been listening to last week's podcast olive. I run through. I hadn't finished my sentence. I hadn't finished my sentence. Well if you've been listening to starched stars and water carriers episodes Marks only three that since well rescue. I wasn't listening to four. Have done in total a lead from start to finish. That's right only e to in the Pink Jersey Though Murchison. Shinbun the only trick to actually during the era of the Pink Jersey. What was the biggest song of nineteen ninety in the UK at the National Doma? Nothing compares to you. By sinead O'Connor with vogue by Madonna and second tale the top please Lionel. Well we need to go back into the vote for today's tale of the tapper because other said we're referred. Yo Calvin Co and we were there in person a couple of years ago when we Daniel. We saw at a car. I remember uh doing I want to show you. Don't but this isn't anywhere near the Jira route but get out the call. But it's it's raining out. Whatever I don't like in charge Daniel. What brought you lie know Tavon Cologne. No even though they shouldn't zone zone of the South we're at the foot. We're in a place called Calvin Nicole and this is well the climb that we can see in front of us. You're about to describe the mountain. Where you're about to describe is where the zone commander of the South Begins Its journey. Well I would describe it but it's shrouded in cloud at the moment. How much higher did it go than there? I mean it looks. It looks quite mountainous. But it doesn't look as impressive as Mountains in the north. I wouldn't say or in the Monte Pitching Teeny So we just To The east of Salerno far from Naples and well the climb climate talking about goes up to just over thousand meters above sea level. Why is nothing like own calendar in Asia? Why isn't it is nothing like the cameras? So it's nothing like what was advertised mythologies speculated about In Two Thousand and eleven there were series of newspaper reports mysteries. Broken on an Internet newspaper would INFO g but then subsequently went onto appear in to-to spoil in various cycling magazines in Mattino local newspaper that the two thousand twelve year it was going to features zone. Callan of the south. And that was the Refriger- Calico the problem was that the the climate was talking about was was seven point eight kilometers long. I'm thirteen percent average. It was hard to climb ever to feature in the grotto however it didn't exist or it didn't exist in the form that people thought existed in it existed in the facebook group. Started the the The lettuce sense the local mayor of Calvin. The was a mischievous grin from the Dan. Jiro boss Angelus Domini on when the refrigerator vans on. Dunkel on of the South was mentioned and everyone was ready for it to be unveiled at the two thousand twelve year route presentation. But it wasn't and I actually came up here not long after that to try to investigate and I was writing a book who mountain higher wanting to know what the Food Yo Calico was spend a day here asking for directions. Asking people want this climb was where it was and it turned out. I didn't really exist. Something vaguely similar existed It's not raining pretty heavily Two Son Wadia Religious Sanctuary of some Mikhail pizza and Kayla and but it was not as high as people thought it was it was not quite a steep and it was in no condition to to host Even a village come sped alone the Talia. So let me get this straight. It's not an average percentage of thirteen percent seven point eleven percent. It's an isolated climate on the bike but it was About seven kilometers long eleven percent average. But I'm it's never going to appear in the JERICK. So did we get to the bottom of wide. This story even existed. What some kind of Internet miss or somebody a bit like when people post Completely made up transfer rumors on football forums and it appears in the sun and it turns out that the play doesn't even exist. Is it exactly that it was an Internet based whispering campaign Mara Venny? Who is now the juror boss but was in the year. Route director direct spoke to him about food on Zone Carolina South and he says the sixty million people in Italy and sixty million people who want to design. Jira they will think they want to be the Italian football team manager. They will think the team and He says he gets thousands of suggestions for climbs to us and dozens of people have claimed that they found the zone line of the south or east of the West And that was one of them. It was a case like I imagine. Whoever invented this mountain and started a story probably fell quite satisfied when it pitched up in national newspapers magazines. I know on the book and for four pages were dedicated to in a book called Mountain Higher. Yeah but you were debunking the myth rather than going going along with it. I mean something to soften cost tried when Re starting the rumor that Gary Thomas was gonNA join Bam. We've started napalm. Got Quite fond memories of that little detour. We made to refrige- Cavaco Vancouver. We said when you US where all we today. I think you all square today. That's what we usually do. You said we're Calvin Ika wouldn't fancy sleeping there. I think the Easter Sleep there. Wherever slept there are bandits and brigands and So so the legend goes a remote Paul of Sudden Saliba yet. Don't think as we discussed that the real Jiro. We'll ever finish up there but Geri's finishing that I'm sure you can have a great time groveling up to the czanka line of the south. Well let's go over to the course and see how our knees getting on climbing up these kind of south they looks. It looks steep from the profile on an angry red and orange color I expect I'll be an angry right on orange color when we go over to the calls as we will now was nothing mythical by. There's all of the south. I can confirm that I'm on. The lower slopes only four point three clones legal but nineteen percent been joined by quite a lot of other writers live on the right today. Same Time Shy Hanoch Cook. Who have been writing with quite a bit. Barry Mooney on our McIntyre Charlie Richards David Keenan also for Martin Parkin's who is on the right today while the Martin wealth and everyone who's finished today waving stuff as you can pass could be. I think everyone's looking forward to tomorrow to urge you are listening to the Sakhalin podcast at our jittered Italia brought to you by I woke up. Flexible loans built for small businesses. I W. O. C. DOT CO DOT. Uk Jalani. I worked at walk reporting systems as delivery manager so I remember growing up in northern Italy. When I was a kid would happen every year. They would close all the mainstream of our sitter as a kid. I kind of struggled understand why they needed to close on the city. It's actually quite the hustle but the reality is it was always great day. Came around to go down with my father. Just say this guy's plastic through so fast soul Atlantic in ECLECTIC callers. The bikes look extremely technologic. Lamb could say innovation and sports together and I think that that was the what always attract. Thanks very much indeed to title sponsor. I walk very grateful to them for their support and without them we wouldn't be here. Are The journal. Tinton so I I still table wines of the salting podcast Algiera. We've got the MANDURIA ZINE FIANNA FROM POLIO. Which is a blend of fifteen fifteen percent? Fianna Angelo an eighty five percent strike Fianna. Now this particular wine me really show some apple and pear flavors but with a delicate orange blossoms aroma in the background. It really yields have nice structure that works well with chicken pork and some of you big seafood dishes a real summer fiber here at the moment and extremely popular. Have you enjoyed his? Well thanks take an jerry to for the purposes for four years logical purposes that we could have this nice As at White. The Fianna is made from the flannel Great thoughts this wine. Daniel is not nice. What this spectacular lovely stuff yet. Very quite on the nose remind me a little bit of a Soviet blown bit. Maybe not so the brief type flavors of blunt Yeah Nice Acidity. Tiny very tangy. I can see you really you really warming to this threat. I'd like to one thing I'd like to say is in case was wondering The second podcast has no commercial interests in this one of the day feature at divine salaries are selling Gto cases of wine on proceeds from from those sales will go to the Squad La Lease Cheney for which we are raising money but this feature exists purely to humiliate me. It's a it's the air is the hair to the line of learns Italian feature from a couple years paid for. We paid for our winding way and very happy to do. This is this is lovely. This is a real kind of little glass with with a lovely light lunch. I could. I mean I don't have many lovely line lunches I would describe it as quite punchy quite a punchy white wine well chops senators from puja. We are starting today's podcast where we are in the Campania region but today's stage started in Poulin political altamura and we saw symposia because the one thousand nine hundred year started in Puria. So we're going to be talking about. Isn't it yeah? The one thousand nine hundred did start right done in. Pula kind of just went straight up. The country didn't it Daniel into the I mean not not many options otherwise I guess but it's funny to look at them out because we mentioned the other day how. Seldom Jiro actually start starts or used to start in the south of athletes. Far more common it is rich and Italy in thousand nine hundred was in a very good place. Italy was absolutely booming. And it's sort of. It's a period of time. Kind of mythology is Talian Italian history things that never really been better and today. We're going to be hearing a lot from our friend. The Italian scholar Professor John Foots author of several books about Italy. As mentioned in previous episodes of the podcast Pelada Pedal Aria The history of the Italian Cycling Kalle Chore Book About Italian Football John Written about long Italian politics. I kicked off by asking John Just to paint a picture for us of just how good things were in Italy in nineteen ninety? It's very strange because I lived. I was living in Milan at that time. And you know you know what happens to his so ninety two you've got the collapse coming in nineteen no one. No no one thought I was going to happen. It really felt like that being a very long boom the boom time for. It's a lot of money around financial boom new money by this gaming media. Kind of stuff going on the same parties in power and it really felt like this was a really great place to be. And then you gotta work up and say you know everyone. Everyone's looking in thinking and that will cut was immensely influential for Italian culture. I think in the world a what people thought was Italian culture. So yeah it's just really weird to think about nine thousand nine hundred and then think that very eddie in ninety two the whole thing's GonNa come acidy crashing to him in every single way but it's just it just no one. No one can still go Andretti. Prime Minister Address is still believable. Three D audio. Nothing's changed physically since the place for period and there's money everywhere people have got to three cars. They hold I go second. It's booming. We're talking about second economic miracle eighties. The first one is the fifties and sixties but you have a second one in the which is really based on a whole series of different kinds of industries particularly fashion design small businesses you know very specialized. Things in in the northeast. You making things like bicycle seats and shoot ski boots. Bits and things like that. You Know Class Sunglasses. That kind of business. Expo high-level expert fashion. It's the second boot. There's a lot of finance capital around. So even more money is made in the Second Boon. The first has already about taking people peasants to workers and this one takes people from work has too small businessmen business people entrepreneurs and it kinda raises the level. Awesome Italian economy So if you're looking for quality clothing if you're looking for quality design to waste today in that you still do some extent but all the big fashion industries the fight of the top six specially industries in the world based in Milan in the eighty S. And you can reel them off. I'm sure everybody knows that household names. It's a fascinating period. I think is reading it so to the extent man again like it was before the virus hit is kind of the pulling the rest of today alone in this moment and then the head of all this. You've got this amazing political figure Bettino Craxi. Here's this very modern strongman. I think a lot of what's come afterwards. Know kind of he anticipated first. Socialist politicians parties like the third because politics But was incredibly influential. Is the kind of the middle of the of the two big parties the communist Christian Democrats and they come with the Christian Democrats and he was promised a full years in the eighties and very strong leader very much detached himself from the left. You can conceal this coming lights with Blair years later but he actually got red rose instead of the hammer and sick. Who was the party? Symbol the things that happened later. I think it's often unto as these things. You know quite modern. But it's cool actor but of course damn umbrella. Bamboo completely corrupt and completely sending away a state asset. So it's the two enormous debt so these kind of built on sand is a boom very much we heard from John Food there and we've mentioned his book Larry Peddler. Lots of being a bit of able for me this this big when it comes to tyne cycling but at some point towards the end of what is an excellent account of all the great characters and races in an Italian cycling history. He writes this history. Should really end here in January. Nineteen eighty-four with the scientific concoctions. Being prepared by being prepared by Francesco Moser and his team of doctors for his world record attempt in Mexico City. The history should end at some point in the one thousand nine hundred nine thousand nine hundred for one simple reason from here on. This is no longer applicable cycling. Most of the rest of this volume will deal not with stories of great climbs sprints or punctures or breakaways rather we enter a shadowy world of blood transfusions hormones testosterone cocaine arrests protests masking agents police swoops and sacks of blood in Spanish fridges. This is the murky world of medically inspired cheating with his tales of extrordinary extent. Which people will go to win or just to participate? Wow to bring down. Everything was good. You know we were talking about swinging Milan and everything being well with Italy and then drugged us. Down John Foods as John as John. Footfall but it. But it's true it's an interesting. It's interesting period as well an Italian cycling because we're about to get all of that all the nastiness before the nastiness came great prosperity but not until the early nineties did it because they were. The Italians was suffering at the end of the eighties particularly in stage races. I was staggered to realize anew. The Italian cycling in the eighties became quite parochial. The big rivalry sat on the mosaic. Neither of him thrived reeling sort of Franz Body realize how parochial it was they. They didn't have the time a single top ten finish in the Franz between nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty-nine and yet there were awed. An Maurizio fundraisers one but more consistently Moreno Argenta N- and one day races. It all kind of came took crescendo. Appropriately enough given Benitez Johnny Boone. Here we're GONNA talk about has links to classical music and which will hear about. I'm sure am Argenta N- was was riding high and Marcucci of an. It also won the Vuelta spun it. Didn't he so? Things change very quickly for Italian cycling. It seemed and against that backdrop rich so johnny boone. Your was he was a promising amateur But nothing really talking about is a future phenomenon when he was an anti gone interesting so the back story he. He was born in Brook in Switzerland. Another writer who is born in Switzerland Yacob full sun point in Geneva. Johnny was born in Switzerland family. I think quite sort of humble working class stop a lot of Italians Number of Italians moved to Switzerland In I guess it would have been the sixties moved to Switzerland on them when Bruno himself was born. The family the parents actually Were about to move back and they moved to. Monsanto which is a suburb of Milan. But Johnny For the first four years of his life he spent most of the time with his paternal grandparents sent these grandparents who lived at the bottom of Monte grappa and he was pretty much raised for the first four years by his grandparents and then when he was about four his parents had gone back to monster that opened a draft and He went back to live with his parents and grew up there and was not really particularly interested in or good any sports but then discovered cycling can eat early teens on yet. Made his way eventually turned professional for the Atala Team at alive for the famous Loppy will be familiar with their blue and gray. Stripes was a horizontal Stripe Jersey. Yeah I mean there was nothing in the first four years three four years of his career that suggested grand tour champion material was a He ridden for the first time ninety six and finish forty. I didn't finish eighty seven or eighty eight Joined the Chateau DAX team in nineteen eighty eight and won a stage of the Tour de France until the Moshe that year but Sunny wasn't someone that you would have thought was going to to win a Jiro or to France and of course ended up on the podium a couple of times on in the tour. This would come of course one outdo as twice won back to back World Championships So clearly something happened around about the age. Twenty six twenty seven twenty six going into this nine thousand nine hundred year unlikely superstar really wasn't I mean Chateau Dax was home. Furnishings company sending all sorts of things dining tables and sofas and stuff and Jenny. Borneo had look of us sort of home. Furnishing store salesman really. Didn't they need hack small sensible diadora shoes on the bike not not? The kind of stereotypical Italian cyclist clashed with a lot of kind of flare. I wouldn't have thought just from those kind of early glimpse of him very sort of laconic and almost of downtrodden air abiding by deep voice didn't say an awful lot and then those first couple of years of his career programming people had started to say about him the yellow claw and the someone could go far but he was already starting to kind of frustrate people. In Nineteen eighty-eight Jerry had about crush dissent and this led to problems. Various problems with descending and elaborate flights issue also suffered from and cured that famously and by listening to Mozart or he had some kind of acoustic therapy. That's sort of the story that was told wasn't in. Nineteen Ninety Buna dead's emerge year winning milan-sanremo and then the zero and really as Lionel of hinted I can different writer and and the were kind of various explanations offered for his apparent transformation and classical music was one of them. I quoted from Sam Odds Book Villa. Dan Again you know. Sam wrote a chapter by him and in one thousand nine hundred eighty. Banou remade by psychologists allergist racing counselors and of course his musical therapist. I mean it's easy to raise an eyebrow as Some of that bought I think has his record from their on showed has his his class. I mean I remember people really parring and delight. Ah The spectacle of the new on a bike His best he almost had sort of purring motion on the by. Yeah I mean all the pedals You know in any kind of looked as I had one I half open when he was doing so Is was almost falling asleep on the bike. We'll talk about that. One thousand nine hundred zero in the next partner. You know some of the the writers he had to be but yeah. His upper body was Rox solids Almost as if he was holding it like that for a bank or something call ask it it was it was even. He was even more solid than Tom. Com about me I mean he he but for me. A natural kind of strange all Only his legs move. That was Looking back I mean knowing what we now in nine. What he's about to accomplish in that nineteen ninety season. He was almost a perfect hero for Italians like Miss Italian cycling kind of emerging from the doldrums and as I said an Italy that was raised to the police with its walking around with this kind of chest puffed out and with the World Cup the Football World Cup about to arrive they won a bid for the welcoming nineteen eighty-four it was about to happen and I think we're about to hear a bit more from John Food now. It was going to be a sort of festival of everything that Italy had accomplished over the previous ten years. That was a lot of partying going on. There was a lot of coke thing. Snow a lot of a lot of disguise. You know he was the phrase that people use for that that period is phrase Milano which came from an ad for a drink called remnant salty and it was a pitcher in Milan with a book. Lemon so this is kind of people have money that we're getting out. There was a loathsome sex and drugs and rock and roll going on and it was some of this was three football celebrity and by the skinny and that that kind of stuff and yes it was kind of light. This of the last days upon pay as it didn't feel like that the time it felt like this is GonNa go on forever and you know the money was just gonNa keep flowing and flowing flooding. A lot of the building and the developments. The money that was spent on that wilco astronomical and a lot of it went not into the stadiums but onto into people's case and in fact the disaster that comes afterwards starts with people being arrested because of Dough g stadium building schemes Dodgy that was achieved station in Rome. That was used for a week. You know there were things like that. Even though this money was flowing into this infrastructure when it wasn't love it was the mafia and the Komo politician wasn't getting to the actual stadium most of which I love which turned out to be disasters In terms of what was actually built so yes very much a cost of sand which fell amazing at the time but was story uploaded trouble for later and there was a sense that you know we should just let it. This is going to be a great window in the world. So that's not be too critical. It really start to Tappan quite seen after the tournament finished the other thing. Sorry interesting around that time. Is that although the the big scandal is ninety. Two you get the seeds of the disintegration of the system already there in ninety and particularly. I think the Lega Nord which is already starting to make an impact around then. Lake annoyed is a religious party which movement not remorse party which starts to emerge in the late eighties against the system. And you know starts to and it's very racist racist not just against immigrants from outside of its racist against southerners as well it's a no the movement and they start to kind of not down the system and an attack the politicians in a very rhetorical way again once again slater building trends all this stuff. Populism yeah this is nine thousand nine hundred is no no five minute not trumbull pulled over even by the screen either ahead of the game on that so I think they see already there and you know the system just wasn't sustainable but no one at that time or people are starting to say but most of the time a lot of people some people inside the system that they couldn't see any alternative to they. Cycling FIVE CAST AT OUR D'ITALIA is supported by science sport. Sciences sport fueled by science. Thank you very much to our longest standing supporter sponsor science and Sport and who. I backed US at Twenty Sixteen Years Talia and they're still still with us to this day. Never been more useful for me. I don't know about you. Lionel Buck writhing our JIRA everyday. I've been shoveling. Scientists support products dynamite. Gob I would like to thank you wolfing down a full plate of Spaghetti on the turbo trade ally Gianni Motta nineteen sixty six or pictures. A I mean they're not CIPOLLINI's well yet if scientists sport being around in one thousand nine hundred sixties and Johnny Martha have been having Energy Bakes in a variety of flavors and the the big discovery for me as performance nitrate. And I. I've been I I shouldn't say this. Of course I've no idea when this consumer stuff I'm just shoveling and especially on the a few nights ago on the on the stage to AETNA started having hunger knock but twenty minutes into the right and I just I just got much as I could and I finished the rides in a pool of sweat and Empty Sciences Sport Rappers. Flu Thing in my pool of sweat anyway leverage if you'd like twenty five percent off your scientists products scientists sport dot com and enter the good. Sis See twenty-five SIS CPI twenty-five. I'd like twenty five percent off the distance of Jiro. If that's possible but probably too late you can reduce the as as you. Well Know Lionel you can reduce the severity of incline by at least twenty five percent. Should you wish you could also reduce your way either by cheating or eating a bit less? Well she thinks a lot easier anyway moving onto the nine hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred ninety two Talia putting context. You mentioned that there. I mean there had been three overseas winners In the years leading up to eighty seven Stephen Roach. Of course eighty-eight was Andy Hampsten. Who were going to hear from in a future episode. An eight thousand nine is Laura Fina and he went back in one thousand nine hundred probably as a favorite. I mean he'd obviously lost. The tour narrowly to Greg. I'm on the previous year. But he's probably the favourite tonight. Jira would you say Daniel? Yeah think so. I mean it's interesting. I think people only understood with hindsight much. He'd been traumatized by what happened in the eighty nine tour but he was he was the defending champion and he was the guy who might people Considered the favorite for the nineteen ninety. Two year. Buna was known anyone rate than six grand tools. failed to finish two of them his best finish Grand Graduate. Been Eleventh up to that point. Lamont was also in the failed but Lamont. He said he didn't have big ambitions himself and He was mainly training. The wasn't much else toy. Nissen THE DUTCH RIDER. He'd he had a positive test hanging over his head and it was actually. GonNa be ride a protest on stage six. I mean not that surprised me. I think the tasks was from eight per wasn't and it was unresolved he he. He had numerous positive tests in his career. Young tournus Abu- that surprise me? The right is we're gonNA protect against his. Participation is correct. I mean not that kind of surprises me For the era that is correct rich that process I think happened on stage six but just going back to the start of the race semi it was going to start the GIO. Starting Body In Puglia so the heel of the Italian stellato but the start of the Jewish self was even overshadowed as far as the sports newspapers were concerned because there was a huge story which was a football story but it wasn't to do with the World Cup. It Obama Toe by George isn't footballing sensation in the world at the time had left Fiorentina and was signing full eventers. Ayukawa remember napalm whether it was a world record faith but anyway there were riots for days in Florence as a result of that transfer and well. It made Roberto Baggio world-famous that move and of course everyone everyone even years later heard of about your hot night around by signed delpierre edges. Is Roberto Baggio? Those name saying to you know much to on us. I would lie. Well Chris for obviously hadn't heard of Roberto Baggio even even now remarkable but I suppose he was. He was only five can he was living in Africa. Perhaps wasn't watching the World Cup. Probably didn't know who Johnny Buni I was at the time I did today to be probably a little writers complained that they still don't know who jenny been you is. He's head of the Writers Union. Of course of course. Of course Badgers nickname was the divine ponytail but did was on portia ponytail in one thousand. Nine hundred eighty was yes. Yeah nothing diviner that pheno. When he didn't stop ticky well who though he was the favourite? Buono did start. Well he won the prologue in body and I think he put about half a minute into Phoenix on but no one really thought that that was a sign he was going to win. The race was a mountain stage coming just three days into the race on Vesuvius and people thought the Boone. Your could possibly keep the Jersey there and that's exactly what he ended up doing. Allah come to be united. Thea sorry Johnny Buono Digital Anymore Trentino classified. I'm could I I love Taco van bitter enough to get go to you. GotTa go mainly that. They need that so down. That was staged three. The finished on vis Eduardo shows after Spanish rider. One Jenny was second twenty six seconds behind and shows us. What's the early kind of contender to challenge book? Who was that gravelly? Voice Co commentator on Italian TV commentary. They're not was none other than Gino. Bartali Jeanette actual and who I discovered it had harp. Ration- a couple of days before the start of the Jira but still took place in the in the country box And I think there was a bit of a theme in that era of Bartoli's sort of criticizing or or thoughts. Are we mentioned that? Didn't we in episode one and we will be looking much more at bodily fluids copy in a later episode. It kind of makes bought when I think about the I think our distant pass and black and white images and yet the one thousand nine hundred eighty to me feels quite recent inserts. Kind OF HARD TO RAMA. Hetero in the fight of that bodily there you know larger than life and critiquing Booneua. Jiro talking former rightist being critical. Off The successes. And the is not Jira. 'em Greg lemonde as we said sort of gone in thinking and talking about using it for training Eddy Merckx was absolutely outraged by this and He knew talion press. That Lamont's performance was scandalous shameful. Lemond of course it beaten pheno in the Tour de France. The previous year didn't have a very spacious star either because he crashed on stage. I think we stay six to stage five to ten. That ended up really putting pay to his chance his On he stayed in the race but he would pull out a few days. Later and Boone. Your was really beginning to dominate the another mountain stage to play school via Lombardo sign in Tuscany not far from Florence. And also on that. Oh check you're pre resistible winning the big stage one time trial second stage three. I on stage seven there and I'm winning that one from sprint and a group shades of Simon. Yates in two thousand eighteen. You know with with with nine thousand nine hundred vintage Daniel. Free have been saying it. Only actually one one hundred ethical at that point It's funny. You should say that rich because a lot of the comments you read back the comments from other riders in Jira and they were suggesting same thing they were saying well Marino Loretta Spanish writer for example said the Bruno's Rodney everyday classic and that he was going to pay for it Sooner or later phenol had said this is spoon. You know this. Is this fifteen minutes of fame. Let's let team enjoy it. It is funny you mention Samya because on the day that we went to recruit Joe Calvin Co where our Virtual Jiro is? Today that was the day I coined the nickname the flying pudding ill sanguine actio. Volante and I just wonder would have been called the SOFA salesman. What's in Italian? It'd be the Vindicatory Deedee Vanni Sofa salesman. He did have a nickname he had a nickname coined by a van. Johnny Murtagh Poon. We've talked a lot about las you weeks and it was. John needed the Ramo Ramo being. We'll see the reason. Johnny Moore came up with that nickname was not because I initially thought it was because Buono always used to say l. We'll see in response to questions but it was more to do with boone lack of consistency so and this was nicknamed the more Jenny. Mortar used to using every piece really that he wrote about Bruyneel he told permanently assigned. This middle. Nine to Johnny Boone. It was always Johnny. Ramo wounds kind of irony being the in this Jiro. He was extremely consistent. We'll have to say I. I say that I think Lionel's better come out with nicknames. In Johnny Murtagh. Wow praised and injuries airline nickname that. Simon. Yates really embraced though. Is it ready the flying black pudding understandably? I mean it was meant you watch your you wash your hands of it pretty sharply as well. Once you realize that kept bringing up people kept bringing up in the press conferences and it's a sinking into my chair thinking shoot the Messenger John Yet. I mean it was just some words that my brain came up with anyway. I'm talking about Boone Neo in kind of the. Let's see mentality the time. Trial stage ten time-trial sixty eight kilometer individual time that you know that that's not the thing that happens quite so much these days is it but so of thing you get on our big climbing it though. I think it was quite flat that day. That would have been a thousand needs to climb in the I basically the in the morning. A- led the Polish writer Yokneam Chocolate by one minute twenty four finished second on the stage to Luca Guelfi. By the end of the day he led overall by four minutes and eight seconds for Marco. Giovanni not and really. That's the moment that Buni Irish suddenly not just in the driving seat. But he's got both hands on the wheel and you know he's in charge of the direction of the race. I mean multi formula nine back and then you look at the top ten and that just writers as who you would pay. His people would finish in in and around the kind of low positions in the top ten. Not People who are genuine economic challenge for the Pink Jersey in the second half of the race. I mean it's done industrial from the halfway point. Really Yeah I think it was London if you look back at the comments. The other riders were starting to to make this point in the race. They were sort of talking about Boone Yours. A bit of an extraterrestrial Charlie. Multi said that he was leading the Jira of the humans of the normal riders behind him but Buni by all accounts he was very popular is becoming very popular with the Italian fans. He had appealed to the for example and become a spokesperson heat. Appeal to the Fiorentina funds to stop rioting about Roberto by Joe and the Italian national football team who is preparing for the world. Cup was apparently finishing training every day and also parley into a changing room to watch boom. What's the on the big screen? So there's this real sense that Italy Italy so passion for Cycling Passion for the JIRA was really being reawoken by Johnny Boone. Your and by that point he had the Dolomites the Alps three or four stages between Heyman victory and it was looking very very good. Thank you so Charlie. That was the staged the win over the poor door. Also over Val Gardena and the Momma larger on. Its Way Charlie Matei Jenny. Buni were away together. A took a couple of minutes out everybody else on well. Many minutes out of the The rest and Famous pictures from Graham Watson of Bruyneel Matei together and that was the day that Mockery Nettie. Of course Richard. You mentioned he'd won the Vuelta earlier in the spring. Heat being the second place ride up to that point. But then Charlie multi Leapfrogged him and it was What Buni oh by just over four minutes from Matei by that stage with the final five or six stages left to go and the next stage after the Door was going to pre kind. It was the world premiere of the Motorola but it was the most roller from the easiest side so and they were going down. What is now considered the hard side to go up and it was going to be very well. Everyone knew it was going to be a very dangerous descent. Hunia ended up coming through unscathed low. Johnny Buner was very very superstitious and it was the seventeenth stage in seventeen is the unlucky number in Italy. In most countries. The team but seventeen is is considered unlucky in Italy and he was terrified that he was going to crash and was a sensitive before the stage. Where Bre TV cameramen hotter? He went to reassure Johnny Buono because he said to me. I'm all I'm on number. I'm accreditation number seventeen. Johnny don't worry. Nothing's nothing's going to happen to me. Nothing's GonNa Happen to you. It's going to be fine but Buna was very nervous about this but that day became famous. Not really because what Buono did but because of what another rider. Leonardo Sierra did Leonardo Sierra discovered by Johnny Yard even know that this call Leonardo Sierra in America Stage Racer in Venezuela Florida in the beginning of the season mine. English is always Gary Panter. Because sorry but I haven't not time who study well. This is up to Champ Isla Psych. We startle Quality the story about me swapping for twenty two bikes wasn't quite true or at least there was a little bit of poetic license involved. Leonardo Seattle. How was in the Venezuelan national team and the President of the Venezuelan? National Federation? Awesome whether I'd like to go into partnership with them to help the development of Venezuelan cycling. He also whether I could supply. The national team bikes. They need to twenty two of them and so became a bit of an attention. Grabbing headline the Darden some kind of swap deal to sign. Leonardo Sierra of your data don't Puto he L. C. N. N. Pam Bill Employees Rebuttal. If you will stay having crash twice crush twice mice getup one atop pre-k and then went on to finish tenth in Jira as a neo pro that year. He had the mentality of someone who wanted to use psyching kind of social elevator. He came from a family of very humble means. His Dad had deserted them on. The MOM had raised four kids on her own. I got to know the mom. Well the brothers sister and he'd had a really hard really really really hard childhood. Which wasn't the case of Agam Bernal or another great Venezuelan talent? I signed later. New happens to come from the same Pueblo as Leonardo who sailed Hano but as I said in one thousand nine hundred. Sierra looked destined for great things he really wanted to win a lot of money and so he really applied himself as he also did in. Nineteen ninety-one that year he would've stage and the Trentino and was seventh. The journey Talia so his career was very much falling an upward trajectory. But then clearly he wanted to start enjoying la La Vita which footballer can afford to do a boy. A boy income. That was our old our old friend. Johnny talking about Leonardo Sierra. Who At that point? The nineteen ninety year looked destined for great things Johnny. They're even during parallels with encumber NAL Unfortunately he didn't really go onto scale the same heights. The Bernal already has the Jarrow as far as Bona was concerned was pretty much done and dusted at that. Point Chelsea one again in the time. Trial Mounting Dontrelle to Sacramento and then the Jiro rode into Milan. It was a Milan. That was getting ready for the world. Cup great euphoric scenes. In Pasadena Lama in Milan and Boone News. Coronation having led the Jira from start to finish. I'm lucky because I am from Milan. I've been born and I leave a few hundred meters to the big rally from one of the most important places cycling history. Hello I am Philip accounts and The CO founder of Bill. Where magazine and we published five books about cycling in the last five years so I took the habit to to go to the final stage of it was My father brought me in the first year and then I started to go me alone and I did it every year every year. I was Milano in debt week I went to the final stage of the Giro to the final hour revolt. And I remember that one in ninety one When he took his pink Jersey and three weeks to the to the people and there wasn't not so many barriers like now people report was a huge crowd just under the podium and was something like fighting each other to to keep the Jersey and finally they they broke it in pieces and every one of those copies of the Pink Jersey so was shared. The gift was shared and also my brother got more piece of that. Pink and UNMARRIED CIPOLLINI one in Milan Daniel to complete sort of Italian trump twelve twenty stages won by Italians in that Jira so after three disappointing years it was a really triumphant. Jiro for the town's kind of setting up a triumphant summer didn't know not just in with Football World Cup but I'm thinking Cardio Chiapucci as well then then emerged at the turn of fronts and was Greg lemond closest challenger there. It was far most people. Send the start of what was going to be a great career for Boone. Your battery. We mentioned earlier. He Take Buni Otago win the toward France. And that didn't happen. You know when you speak to Johnny Boone. Your about it now. He's quite sort of sheepish. About the whole thing He doesn't really like revisiting that Jiro. I'm all that much. I've spoken to him about it on numerous occasions and I did again a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately a little preface to to this interview. Johnny had been sick. I didn't really realize at the time and I was informed later. They'd been in hospital a couple of days earlier so he sounded a little bit groggy even less expansive about that nineteen ninety year than he had been in the post. Hey Titi Colty didn't have many memories of it. There are nice memories but nothing that really stand out. I suppose one thing to say that the previous three Jedi had been won by foreigners experiencing a bit of a lowest far stage. Races were concerned. Psyching was developing internationally and some of the foreign teams will becoming better organize them. We-we PD 'EM for example. These were big teams with massive sponsors. They were buying up all of the best writers. It was hard for us to compete. The JIRA wanted to take the Jersey and keep it as long as possible. The prologue was dead striped perfectly suited to me and I managed to put everything through the pedals and win. None of the other favorites had even mentioned in the build up. But that's just part of the game. Look what happened? I thought I could keep the money out for a few days but then we got to Vesuvius and it was just a great stage for me. Not only big crowds the volcano. It was just beautiful and this point I was just trying to stay. Focused wasn't paying attention to the newspapers. Or what anyone was saying. The enemy thing I was reading was the body. I was excited chore but I tried to treat it like any other race. Fignon had crashed the mistake details mowing the first week. He pulled out a few days later and that left. Charlie motto is my biggest rival. The parole stage was going to be the acid test. And I made it through my peanut powder tape important woman who did have a little bit more to say about one thousand nine hundred. Jiro on them. You know the experience of winning. Jiro was one of Johnny. Boombats teammates on Zanatta Steph. Was it was? It made the journey boy. Ninety nineteen in the Geo when Johnny Boone Jiro Authority one that but it was a difference between that and winning the cheer. We knew he could start well but he'd never shown level of insurance which suggested he could loss for three weeks. In fact he won the prologue and I remember our meeting the next morning without team manager. Gian Luigi stonger. He said so what we do. Now we will look to each other as if to say what do you mean? What do we do? It's not like we're going to win. The Jiro might as well keep the Jersey as long as possible. That was our frame of mind. But it just sort of escalated. We grew in confidence. He went well on the service and we lost all your tobacco. We just kept putting stages behind us like bricks in a wall. Then it goes to the halfway point. He was still leading and suddenly winning. Became the goal. Phenol was the big pre-race favourite and I got to know him. Well later rate he. And Johnny were polar opposites. Johnny Habits Crippling Insecurity. He never started a race thinking he could win. Even though he was capable of it eighty percent of the time always anxious afraid of something or someone job was to reassure him constantly. He's self confidence was not great to talk especially at the start of his career. It's been our studying. The Michelin Atlas trying to identify places. Where it could go wrong even on completely benign days so every bit of road was the sector pirate bay it was a kind of neurosis whereas female had bags of charisma. He told you what to do. He decided he also listened but he basically jumped out of bed in the morning and said right. This is how the racist going to go. This will be strong and so on and so on. He did his homework too but only up to a point. He basically trusted himself on the team to deal with whatever the recruit him see Mendonca. Boise just a little squalor. Say he similar squalor on. You're in the spotlight much more. When you've got the Pink Jersey in your team. Everyone was football mad but we want to show the country that we exist to and we did get a lot of attention. People were sat in front. Tv's all day. You getting a lot of calls. A lot of requests things that when an Italian takes the Pink Jersey straight away. There's always more interesting especially when it's a young lad with a lot of promise as was the case with Johnny he won the prologue. Durrani Fidanza when the next day. And you had an Italian team leading the Jira. Everyone Nestle suddenly waking up excited CDs. Italians take on the foreigners that was the script also how it turned out had a foreign dominating. I'm sure the press and the fans would have started drifting away and getting lost in the World Cup build-up. Maybe they did a certain extent. But we were in our bubble and didn't even feel it coming really unbalanced. I think people considered it a pretty memorable. Jiro and then it was time for the World Cup. The Opel what is clear. The cycling changed in the early nineties. It's just not entirely clear. Exactly what point that was but clearly. Apo was on the scene around about this time if not in nineteen ninety certainly by ninety one ninety two ninety three. I mean I mentioned Yakim has chocolate Polish rider a little bit earlier. I mean he was one of Buni is closest challengers over. The first half of the race fell away in the time. Trial but tragically died at the age of twenty five and nineteen ninety four and there were lots of stories about whether or not. Epo had played a part in his death and certainly a lack of knowledge about you know. Heart conditions in Reuters spite of writers who who died in that period in the nineteen wasn't there and it's impossible to divide one from the other really. It is napalm it released on you know. Nineteen Ninety was was a bit of a tipping point I think of a watershed on. We don't know whether it was about that. Time the EPA. Oh very girl. Whether it was only certain writers will have access to it is now why battalion suddenly started thriving in the early nineteen nineties. And they've been talking about Buono and his links to Italian doping doctors Franchesca Conconi mckinney fatty. Above all fatty had worked for Chateau decks. But he'd fallen out with the team had fallen out with the team manager and generally stronger during the nineteen thousand nine hundred. France he left the team. Was Boone your working with Conconi? Nineteen Ninety am. I asked Johnny couple years ago. He was adamant that he wasn't in Nineteen Nine hundred work with concord in Nineteen ninety-three here. You think about ninety nine thousand nine hundred ninety. Jiro could boone. Been Patient Zero As far as APO is concerned all conversely could have been a case that Buna was paying allies by lots of other ride is taking EPO. There off. The an is that why he never went on to repeat the same exploits a pulled off in the nineteen ninety year. That is an intriguing question. When did come onto the scene I've spent quite a lot about this to Sandro. Dottie who was a famous Italian research Who write this dossier. Nineteen ninety-four four sort of blew the whistle on EPO. The plague in the Peleton Donosti thinks that nineteen eighty-eight until the spring or summer of nineteen ninety. Eight was the time when I'm Conconi. In particular might have started. Using E P O and ditching blood transfusions Konkani and then everyone knows everyone acknowledges he'd been using blood transfusions with the lights. Francesca mosaic. Before that but as far as boone is concerned we simply don't know I mean Don. Auty HIMSELF HE'D HEARD. Buna was one of the one of the if not the most talented writer of his generation. And even later might have been using a lot less doping Did he was doping then than other riders. But Buni myself you know when you ask him why he didn't repeat reproduce the the same nine hundred ninety. You'll left pretty much none. The wiser as I was a couple of weeks ago to bother a piano teacher. My Dad cried every day in that. Jira as far as I remember. He certainly did during the presentation in Milan on the last day. It was pretty special because it was the first time in quite a while. The jared facing piazza was I ever strong again after that Jiro. I know there were times when I was strong but it didn't fall into place. I couldn't get the Jersey and I was on the back foot can I mean. I don't think anybody could suggest that the guy whose parents on the laundry could be anything other than sparkling clean could could they interesting Charlie? Maltese comments that you re relayed earlier are interesting. Aren't they? Sort of study those and look at possible subtexts. The other aspect to not being multi himself had a reputation throughout that period as a clean writer. Somebody who had Refused doping products. And you know but at the same time was never really seen as a potential grand tour winner. I mean he'd have been as unlikely a winner of that. Jiro as new and he was second in the end. But I think we've got to put some context to the error as well because unlikely grand tour winners were well. This is the phrase as well known back then was it that year and the well to went referred to as grand tools that so much more recent affectation really. It wasn't unusual for riders to come out of nowhere bone brightly winner grand tour of wealth. Roy Or Jiro and then Not Reproduce that. Well we did a whole episode on Supernova. Eighty six eighty eight and ninety all one by one time grunter winners. Whoa Dan you. That's the song of the summer. Nineteen Ninety many happy nights having watched sport in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine Dorma Sung by Pavarotti no disputing the soundtrack of Tasha. Actually not nape. I'm not if you're in Italy. There was a song and it was about nights a national doorman. No-one sleep But it was a different song and was about nights that was really the soundtrack of some in well. There was an official sewn which I think anyone outside of so they heard Wada announced Benneteau and Jenin anaemia two very big roast doesn Italy. They sang it. I remember them saying he on the pitch hero for the for. The State is not very well organized and slightly where they were starting in the corner but he became this thing that I I still have my head very catchy I could do. I'm not going to because you will. Everyone will turn off but I could see. I could save you and I just when Ryan's my brain and I think it is loss of people not the the magic INSIG- win. Don't go not demand you getting sick. Random goal okay is a thank you sorry is not possible because I am not able to seen when I was at the elementary school. Ender we add seeing in the so. I ONLY MOBILE MIGHT. Lipson me because I am not able to see long and did Adding so our friends of terror there and just briefly on power off the anybody. See The documentary directed by Ron Howard. I haven't difficult. It's really good. It's fantastic and larger than life fellow. He was surprisingly enough but We're we're sort of wallowing in soldier. Here looking back in one thousand nine hundred eighty and we can all remember. Nineteen ninety. I don't want any mention of Costa Rica in this regard will say I mean. Daniel won't appreciate this. Of course I was following cycling through the deeply uncool prism of British cycling and cycling weekly. I mean you've you go to bury minded when the one thousand nine hundred year. I was on the whole of the front. Cycling weekly was all about the milk race which was one year by you going to start talking about Gaza in a minute as well On. Yeah I've no idea about the Military Shane. Sutton she insane. Sutton won the nineteen ninety female rights as a great anecdote about change. Something that I can only tell in a live events or when they happen from that milk race but the World Cup was you know everything about Italy was cool. Wasn't the you know the the blue shirts the SCHUYLKILL stadium. Look fantastic even when you watch the World Cup on TV you got glimpses of Italy. It looked like an impossibly cool place so you have to plan on Buni Jira victory and the renaissance of Italian cycling however it was fueled in landscape. Really don't you? I'm napalm the fact that it happened so the presentation. Milan was only two or three days three days before the first game of the World Cup which was going to be Argentina. Cameroon and Argentina. Were the defending champions in the World Cup. They were based in Milan and the Jiro finish had been moved to to mid week so as not to class with the first game of the World Cup but Maradona. I understand. The site was twenty. Jawan Castillon oh I think Tatyana the longtime Jiro boss was in the process of passing passing onto kadhamy custody. Llano that year and they tried to get Maradonna to come to Milan to give Johnny the Jersey and they hadn't managed to do that but yeah really. In those days before the kickoff of Italian ninety Italy was was in in a pretty euphoric state. I think You know in Milan fell bay. Left down Some of the that always that rivalry between Milan. Rome is very much to censor anything. Of course what people remember about that World Cup taking away Gazza and everything but what do people remember about the kind of framing of it? They remember the three tenors in the CARACALLA shelves. And you know that was Even though to sing of Spanish guy but You know that was the kind of the audience that was astronaut. Michael Roy and Pavarotti singing was the soundtrack and I think really Italy on the map For Torres twice as well as overseas. He's been a big tourist Pretty Mega then and I think man. Yeah we call me opening game but we don't really want marital. Maradona was hated right. So he wanted. They mean they love bizarrely. They love Cameroon. Beijing Argentina was. They were covering because they hate it married honorable and they hated black people who signs up me but you know they got left that man they go. They didn't get any stadium. They go kind of new roof. Which no one really liked and kind of ring the gross the next five years and they didn't get you know the big games they didn't get any games and so I think people went about about business whereas I think in other cities really take over daily life especially as they city or closer and closer to the catastrophic semifinal nikes not in Rhode. There's also fantastic bad mascots chow. Who was was subject to lots of satire of you know being kicked in the Bulls and the difference envisions Chow. Who was kind of really what he was the Lego Ma'am woman with a you know a bullheads and lots of other things that genitalia on and things like that so that was actually vote. So what name is going to have he. I keep saying he doesn't have to be. I remember voting this because he voted via Toyota culture. Which is the pools and I? It was the real tortoises which which I've never forgotten where chow drizzly and Bimbo right. It's luckily reach our one. Because I think Tripoli Bimbo one that would cause can tons of translation Bimbo just means boy but not rose see era. It was definitely one of the best periods for Italy. Sometimes a population gets swept up. By an event they see themselves represented or reflected in the protagonists. They have the sense of being a part of something and collective very often. They do this in an effort to forget in difficult times but here it wasn't that it was totally different. Battalions allowed themselves to be caught up in this euphoria partly because they were so carefree at the time. The economy was in a position. We couldn't even dream of now and everyone. I mean everyone felt that they were part of it. Magic nights going Forgo Giannini somehow just captured the mood captured a sense of togetherness humane feeble legit. That was Johnny Salvia and John. For Johnny Savvy. Of course a keen footballer. There's there's actually there's a link between Johnny and Italy going out of the World Cup because Johnny for years and he used to have a tradition where he would present a bicycle to the to the top scoring Sadia which was the Italian top division every year and the first person to receive this johnny used to call it La beachill. Golly Adore and the first person was Paolo. Rossi who was the top scoring the nine hundred eighty two world cup and Johnny claims that he used to play against Paolo Rossi in his in his youth. Anyway in nine hundred ninety while the top scoring Saudi are the previous year was a player called Aldo Serena and Aldo Serena was going to miss the penalty which puts Italy out of the World Cup against Argentina but before that had been a a real festival in the whole of whole of Italy as often happens with these big tournaments host nation seems to come together as Johnny said. There reminded me a lot thinking back to what John I said at the start. The podcast about the political situation in Italy and how Italy was sort of surfing the wave of just prosperity but kind of coolness in the way it was perceived in the outside world. It reminded me a bit of Euro Ninety six and England. And you know you think about the music and it was. My wasn't my cup of tea a Brit pop and Tony Blair and Britain had never really fell sort of more on vogue than it did. Then just you mentioned penalty machine and the number seventeen. I didn't know the number seventeen was unlucky in Italy but the other player to miss a penalty in that semi final against Argentina was Roberto Donadoni. Who Wore the number? Seventeen Jersey. I mean what? An extraordinary White kind of bring our story full circle and you know as long as Italy were winning Everyone everyone was sort of remained in the state of giddy excitement. And you know we talked about We've heard the song the knotty magic magic nights and this became an almost literal thing the first game against Italy. One one with the light. Go from skill. Archie and policing was so bad and say chaotic but it took. The people are in the stadium until three o'clock in the morning to get out and it was the middle of the night and hence not magic magic nights became doubly appropriate and the will many of them it was mainly centered in Rome because that was where the Italian team were based in the semifinal against Argentina Marijan was going to be played in Napoli Napoli where Maradona was playing his club football. That was almost. I almost pre-stage d- The disaster which which then followed when Italy were were not tau and they set in missed his penalty after that was almost as though would balloon was deflated and the whole balloon. The Boom Italy had been enjoying for several years with the previous decade. I mean almost seem to end with the penalty. Miss there was some very memorable moments. These titans get. It was something that you know. You're driving of this guy. He wasn't very good and then suddenly becomes a national hero schools every time he touches the ball. Abbas fantastic and that that was expected him he was like four choice or something. He wasn't even choice he wasn't even meant to be in school. So that was amazing. Just think assuming everybody is one of the goal the great goals of World Cup history and badges should have been played more and he was underplayed and he didn't start the semi as far as I remember on. Maybe Labrador Memory Fades Switzerland. Time ago because I think it wasn't great moments but the actual football was was pretty poor. No Bisinis to seventy but you know there were some of the teams. There wasn't a high level. I think Jeremy will good. Obviously I mean. They weren't amazing but they had some very good players. But yeah it was it was. It wasn't a an amazing tournament from that point of view. And of course if they didn't win it and I think that that of course they should have won. It was not just because the home team but because they were the best team and that they played the best football and they had incredible amount of talent. I she getting way down. Giannini deneen very talented team as angry. I didn't they didn't give away. Dole mean just malls better than anyone else but then that Maradona game. Fifa did deny that. I set in I get. Outta this kid the pita the Mondo so imagine on my blue then quickly. Losing the money that went on the stadiums that were terrible. Thinking of Serena stadiums would you down Where the Gaza Game was and Bari Stadium? Which is beautiful. But it's completely bonkers designed. He's say Renzo Piano. It's now completely folding down. And they don't know what to do with it and it's going to shade. So there's there's I think the soundness about an doesn't become the memory eight hundred to two thousand six nineteen seventy two semi Monte ninety kind of fades away from this connection budget mandates. Just a chops couple of course footnotes to what Joma saying. They're you know you mentioned the the nineteen ninety-two scandals in Italy. The whole sort of Italian political system collapsing. The the Mafia is the blood the bloodiest period and the mafia's history. The two famous antimafia judges falcone were murdered that year. And when you talk to talion about that World Cup now this is a real sort of bitterness about the whole thing the sense that it was a real missed opportunity that Italy had never had it so good and didn't realize that was a tragedy of it. They didn't realize going into that summer of one thousand nine hundred ninety that things had never been better and would never be better certainly was a missed opportunity that World Cup Being drawn in a group with Costa Rica Sweden on and I kind of below-par Brazil. But that's a whole other story. You mentioned there. The Italian fan struggling to get out of the Olympic Stadium in Rome for hours. I mean that sounds like the evacuation at the end of a mountain stage at the Jiro. Everyone stuck in a cable car waiting to get down magic nights indeed and there was a moment when they did get knocked out against Argentina in Napoli was a famous Italian commentator Bruno Pizza and the the cameras pan to the Bay of Naples and he said Oh. Isn't the by of Naples looking looking beautiful tonight? And he was absolutely pilloried for this. Could he say how can you talk about how beautiful Naples looked? When the whole nation was in mourning. It was a national scandal. While they do national scandals quite well talion well chops. Should we Wrap up stage nine of our. Jiro were on the eve of arrestee. There are no rest days on our Chiro. I think what's coming up tomorrow where we have got arrestee rich. But we're in a in the center of Italy your we're going to be making our way towards the Abruzzo region and luckily la. That was the the venue location I chose for rest day. And we'RE GONNA be talking to Ritchie poor. Who enjoyed a fantastic day in rely in two thousand and ten? Well until then thank you very much. Donyell you rich you lionel. Thank you Richard. I'm playing site tonight. Another song this time from our old friend Francois Tommaso lucky shut. Timmy contain interro Jordan. Talk some turning. Unkown placed Goma consoling to call me on through rubber score at the Pierre Coating over. Not Cheese counters Mush Russia kimmy Saudia French is in. Well is a famous song by Tokyo to Neo was prompted a number one hit in France as well great song by pride of being Italian. Well La- that's what I said. I'm proud to be French. A true freshman but yet at this was my contribution to Chiro. Chiro telling Italian over here I I'm not an I. I'm sorry I'm sorry Jira my pronunciation of it's was very bad and it might sound very strange for you to hear me sing the song book. I I really wanted to do it. I tried my best. That might be listening to the French their Spanish around here but total tuna for jewel.

Johnny Boone Johnny Jiro Italy Milan Johnny Buono Daniel Pink Jersey writer Charlie Matei Jenny Professor John Foots football Johnny Buni Talia Buna UK Joe Calvin Co Roberto Baggio