20 Episode results for "Troppo"
EP 6: The Hunt
"What El Chapo is Gabe. Came through his from the marines and the in that house, and we were add few minutes ago, he came out from this tunnel. So we're looking at a concrete tunnel. That's about maybe five and a half feet tall. I'm about five seven and I have two hundred over. So I'm a I'm about Trump height, more or less. This is too too short. Even for me to like stand up upright. I'm guessing this is like sewage water running here. So I'm not getting she's an he ran for like three miles through. This naked apparently because he was running out like got busted mid quotas. So he comes out of this tunnel goes up the stairs right next to us. And it's a long major road. His guys are waiting for him. He jets off to Moslon goes to the beach, essentially, and that's war. This the aging thing HOGAN HOGAN, Boston. Episode six the heart. Troppo had spent most of the nineties in prison, then escapes in two thousand one is basically on the run for the next thirteen years. He was constantly on the move during this time trying to avoid getting captured and are some near misses like when he escapes his safehouse via the sewage tunnel. But he always finds a way out until he doesn't. Just drew HOGAN was a former DA special agent that led the investigation capture of chop. Who's mon- Jew was in the from two thousand six to two thousand fourteen he's tall, short blond hair. Blue eyes, look straight out of central casting for D agent. I talked to him in Chicago where he lives now when he was rookie and the DA choose first assignment was in San Diego where he was part of a drug task force. Trump was on the FBI's most wanted list by that point. But there hasn't been a lot of progress in actually tracking him down. So drew starts learning all about L chopping gone from being this kid from sticks to one of the biggest narcotraffickers Mexican kind of fixed. Choose working with a partner we call Diego since this guy is still undercover Diego expose to the the Narco Korito that we've all heard a lot of people have heard their la- tuna, which is the the boy from Lucia. Diego educated me, more and more just became you know, became apparent to me is what what I wanted to do. That was the biggest biggest fish. So let's go after that guy. True goes through every filed the agency has on troppo at first. There aren't any solid leads everybody that we came crossed in the streets are arrested who's this dope belong to ultimately job. Right. All the people. The DA agents are talking to say that one way or another every drug shipment can be traced back to troppo. But a lot of these leads turn out to be dead. Ends. Our strategy was to work up the ladder. No one has actually been able to work their way up the chain to Chapo, so drew and his partner decide to start at the bottom the street level investigations that the and I worked over the years led us into a multi-million dollar money laundering, sell that money laundering cell is aligned with the scene alot cartel and it's crucial to business drug trafficking operations like his move huge amounts of cash, which poses some serious challenges. Right. Like, they can just walk. Into a Bank with frisk aces full of millions of dollars and make it boss. They need people who can move their money through all the businesses to make it look legal so June his partner become money launderers and they start to move the cartels cash. Where would you bring it? Would you put it in your car like unit? Because those were the questions that we had before we started doing it. Does this all word? What does this look like we pick up a bag full of money? And yes, the answer's yes. I mean, that's that's really the way it happens. He's partner. Diego actually fools the cartel into thinking, he's the director of operations for US company. That's a front for a huge criminal enterprise. It's supposed to be the sort of organization that would have access to boats in airplanes and tractor trailers to transport drugs all over the world and to be able to launder millions of dollars in our first money pick up they were talking about. It was one hundred nine thousand dollars actually delivered it to us in a laundry detergent bucket. A Home Depot parking lot. So you're like literally laundering the money in a laundry detergent. One. After that. It was time to talk about moving till came for them. Offer a propane transportation contracts with that level of trust. They're able to get some really good Intel which helps them busts in cartel guys in Mexico, Canada, Colombia and the US. We had any chance taffy Joppa whatsoever. I needed to be in in Mexico in two thousand eleven right before drew moves down to Mexico. The DA catches a break. I was ready to go to Mexico City and the ago had flipped a key member of does inner circle at the US Mexico border, a member of chop inner circle detained while trying to cross the border the calls me up and he's he's pretty excited. And it's like I got his number my whose number I got CS number like literally the phone that chopper holes in his hand. Literally phone a month later, the phone is traced to a house new Kabo, San Lucas resort city at the tip of Baja California paying the device to a a mansion there just outside Kabo and once the DA in Mexican federal police thing nowhere troppo is they organize a joint operation to go. After him the limited resources that they have and Chapo escaped the back door. Still they searched the house and collect all the evidence. They can what the team learns changes how they see troppo. He was he was vulnerable. He wasn't traveling around with a hundred armed bodyguards and drive around black Suburbans everywhere. You know, if you think about it if you're on the run for ten years, you gotta be watching your back wherever you go. And how many people are you gonna tell where you're at? Now, they think they really have a chance of capturing. And after that near missing Kabo, he becomes even more isolated communicating with the outside world view, one of his personal assistance. There two guys who take turns staying with him day and night over the next year. Or so the DA figures out that choppers phone rarely leaves a network of safe houses in Korea con, but they still don't have Trump exact location to get that they need someone in Trumpers, inner circle our only option at that time was career by the name of that. He's which means. The knows our guys on the ground found him near his home. And he coughed up Joppa location, which we were able to corroborate via the Ping's that he was now at a different safehouse. He was starting to move. He was at safehouse five. We had labeled it it was a a two storey medium sized Thome in a neighborhood. Didn't stand out at all. So we are outside of what was once L troppo safehouse in con, it's nice, but not super nice. It's like a pretty generic residential block with other pretty nondescript I would say like middle class houses for cool, Yukon. I think the goal was to give it low. It's got sort of a two big Brown garage doors in the front and then this like super heavy steel reinforced door on February seventeenth two thousand fourteen the Mexican marines storm the house through one of the garage doors. So it takes the marines. Probably a good ten minutes to get through the steel reinforced door to talk to one of my guys on the ground. Who said that he could see the lights come on upstairs. You could see people peeking through the blinds. And by the time the marines got through that door and into the house. Everybody was gone, and we walk in through the front door and into the bathroom off the bedroom. And see the tub that's propped up at a forty five degree angle with a tunnel below it. At a ladder underneath of it went down to fully shored tunnel would lighting but ten foot underground that connected directly to door in the city sewer system, and you'll put up door, and there you are in a labyrinth of sewer tunnels built by the city. So so close that he didn't have time to get dressed. He's like naked running through the sewer, right? Which was just typical because when I was in down there and one of the tunnels he had a white plastic grocery bag full of tidy whiteys. That is the spousal. I mean, how how often do you escape from a tunnel naked where you have to have a go bag of tidy ways. Yes. What's going through your head when you walk in and see this, this bathtub popped up and know that oh shit. He's gone. That was the moment where it was like, all right? The hunts on now the hunts on. All of troppo safe houses have tunnels underneath their bathtubs. The lead into the sewers and tidy why aren't the only thing. Yes. Dash drew says they also found choppers. Rainy day fund, the one tunnel. We found three tons of. After Trump troppled escape Drew's team and the Mexican marines set up shop inside choppers safehouse rented up cooking, some eggs on the stove and making some instant coffee and as kitchen while they plan their next move, the even sleep there. Drew also goes into troppled closet and takes one of troppo signature black baseball caps. I took one and stuck underneath my vest. Kind of as the only souvenir of the hunt. Really? He says chop whose house was pretty simple white, plastic, WalMart style furniture kitchen table and chairs fold other couches. Maybe a picture to hanging on the wall dark cabinets nothing that you would expect any you know, billionaire drug kingpin to to have. But this was Chapo style. He didn't come from much. I don't think he'd necessarily needed much didn't need to flaunt things. I think that's what most people who know will chapel with several of them like in. You'll the little details of business the price of fuel for splaine's and how much he's bribing people in the garment guard about stuff like that. His main vice seems to be women. He's been married three times. And apparently has at least twelve kids. His current wife is a local beauty Queen. And he has a reputation as a womanizer drew says the intercepted messages that showed chop making arrangements to have sex workers sent to safe houses. He had like this menu of women. He could choose from the Madam with deliver the selected to occur who had transport that Dell over to the over to the house for the night. And he would do that. It was it was non stop. After a few more days gathering leads the Mexican marines and the DA find out the troppo has fled to Maza lawn. A town on the coast, they have troppo assistance phone number, and they're able to pinpoint Trump was exact location at a hotel on the beach on February twenty-second two thousand fourteen they make their move. I drove the lead car along with the commanding Lieutenant and report brought up there to the front of the hotel. The gates open the marine started flooding the inside the lights are coming on on the fourth floor, and all of a sudden he realizes that maybe troppo has another escape route all set up, and then he might get away again. So I run down to the street. I'm gonna physically jogger privilege to make sure that we're covered because he's escaping. He's doing it. Right at this very moment. That's what I hear excited radio chatter. That says we've got the target. We've got the target drew rushes to where every. Gathered a parking garage underneath the hotel. Marines are standing around. And they were just starting to stand up a guy with no shirt. And at this time, I'm wearing Chapuis black baseball cap that I'd taken from his his safehouse a black ski mask and I run right up to jump into his face and yell. The first thing that comes to my mind, which is what's up? And at echoes through the parking deck, and his is kind of bulge out there for a second. Because he thought he was going to get hit. And I let them pass through them into the back of my vehicle, and I jumped in I took several pictures of and and that was it. We're talking about a brutal Mexican drug. Lord name Joaquin Guzman known as Chapa or surely tonight. He's in a prison in Mexico City captured in a joint US Mexican operation. No, one could believe that the chapel got capture no-one we believe he used to be protected by the government immediately. After ciampa was busted people took to the streets and quia com demanding that he be set free thousands of people take to the streets showing support for a man they see as their savior, free, El Chapo, say some signs chapel. Give me a baby says another well, I'm bridge show. These people were by the cardinal people love chapel, but not that much. His residents in Ricky Neo exit as a national China. In combat balloting. Organza Trump was put in a supermax prison outside of Mexico City. And the government makes them big deal about how they're going to keep a close watch on him. Like, there's no way he'll ever see the light of day again. But Trump being troppo. That's not how it goes. Good Morning America start here with the breaking news. He has done it again one year after he was captured and paraded in front of the cameras El Chapo as a scape from a maximum security prison in Mexico, virtually vanishing into thin air. For more than a giraffe to chapel sculpture in muscle on the night, July eleven Nelson fifteen his gapes a game. There's security video that shows troppo sitting up in his bed walking to the shower area of his cell and ducking behind short wall. And then just like that he's gone. He escapes again through a tunnel. This one goes from construction site about a mile away from the prison to right under troppo sell. It has lights in ventilation. There's also a motorcycle mounted on a rail which troppled apparently rides to freedom. For the Mexican government to exhibit all shop all we've got chapel. That was like a big thing. That's why when he escaped prison the maximum was so out rushes was very mad. Because why what happened? They chapel make them. Look like a bunch of us to bits. He hold prisoner. And then things get even weirder. The first interview that will trap those give and not in an interrogation room. And it goes to all people a celebrity actor, Sean Penn was able to connect with the drug kingpin after an interview was brokered between him and an actress Kate they'll steal a famous Mexican actress here it reportedly took place three months after the escape of El Chapo when ciampa was imprisoned for that year. So after Jew captured him he asked his lawyers in Mexico to contact the actress Kato Custodio who's one of Mexico's biggest TV stars she'd recently played a drug trafficker in a soap opera, and she also been vocal about. Saying that the Mexican people can't trust their government. She said on Twitter that she believes more drug traffickers, like troppo, the actress and the drug Lord began texting when the media finds out that this soap opera actress is in regular contact without troppo. They have a field day. It looks like a bit of a seduction. Oh my God. They said I had a relationship with a guy this mass media lynching was that sexualizing the whole thing. That's Kato Casteel on Nightline talking about her conversations which. Oh, it's clear from the text messages that troppo has a thing for her. And that she wants the right stays life story at this point. Kate is in L A, and she connects with Sean Penn she thinks Adan more star power to the project. They decide to meet El Chapo in person by this time troppo has been on the run for four months since he made his motorcycle escape so in October two thousand fifteen the fly down to sing alot and are driven to this house in the Sierra L troppo, they have a meal with him drink, some tequila and talk about the movie business. They go back to LA and just a few days later. The Mexican military comes in almost gets troppo and his out in the mountains. Then in January they track him to a safe house in loose Mochis. A town on the coast of seen Loa. Marines were the house at four in the morning. Chewed out launch of oh, chapel sky, man. L troppo and his bodyguard escaped through another tunnel and come out at a highway where they hijack a car. Dr speeding up down when they hit the federal police point chapel trust Brive his way through instead cops arrests early that afternoon. President Pena NATO since at a tweet in Spanish, which basically says mission accomplished we got him the next day Rolling Stone. Publishes feature story that Sean Penn has written about his meeting with El Chapo. So what do you think about what Sean Penn did here? It's a disaster of an article. I mean in it, Sean Penn writes about farting in front of L troppo. Well, it's an insult to the Mexican journalists who face death every day a farce. It makes a mockery of what Mexican journalists. Try to do every day. This whole thing ends badly for pretty much everyone involved. Troppo winds up back in prison and to this day. Kato Casteel feels like she can't return to Mexico. She's afraid she'll get arrested for. Associating with a drug Lord or the choppers? People will blame her for getting him captured the Mexican government said they'd been intercepting text messages between her and troppo. It turns out they were already on his trail. And the text just helped even Sean Penn seems worried about getting blamed for the capture he goes on sixty minutes claims in wasn't his fault. Do you believe that the Mexican government released this in part because they wanted to see you blamed and to put you at risk. Yes. They wanted to encourage the cartel to put you in their crosshairs. Yes. Are you fearful for your life? You know, Sean Penn and Kito castio turned down interview requests. And the editors of Rolling Stone also declined to speak with us. The did get Trump oh to tape video of himself responding to a list of questions, which is one of the only recordings of him that exists that video may actually be used as evidence against troppo during his trial in Trump was on a ranch he admits to being a drug trafficker, and he also says the drug trade is bigger than just him. And that it won't stop when he's gone. As a model? Look as. Copy all he saying when I'm gone, the drug trade will still exist. Nothing's going to change. In January twenty sixteen troppo was taken into custody for good. And then came the fallout. That's next time. So what happened on on the day? He was where were you? When this happened. I was was Indies hotel seven. It was waiting for someone where inquiry Ifan. Yes. And I got a cold. And he was smile director of the newspaper. And I a as mind what's up in their silence on those is and then I heard like. Hair? Like, someone crying is my. Lamontagne the kill him. What the fuck is happening.
UPDATE: The Verdict
"Go federal jury here in the eastern district convicted, Joaquin El Chapo Guzman all counts of the federal indictment. This conviction is a victory for every family. Who's lost a loved one to the black hole of addiction? Took twelve weeks of testimony by nearly sixty witnesses. But the trial of L troppo is finally over as most people know at this point, the verdict is guilty. He faces a mandatory sentence of life in prison with no chance for parole unless he somehow manages to escape again. He's going to spend the rest of his life behind bars in the United States, the trial was historic and totally unprecedented. And his conviction was an epic ending in this case, we got an inside look at the scene alot cartel. Learn all kinds of crazy. New details about choppers life. I've been reporting on oh, basically nonstop for over a year now in the US and Mexico. I was in the courtroom for almost all forty four days of the trial and covering it was grueling. So now, we're gonna take a deep dive into what this actually means what it showed us about the drug war. And what if anything is going to change now that shop was behind bars sitting in with me in the studio is our producer Jesse Allah hundred Cottrill and calling in. From Mexico City is my co host and compadres journalist Miguel on Vega. Hey, guys, what's going on? How you doing guys Keegan you've asked me to guide the conversation bit. We've got some crazy wiretapped recordings of chapel that were played during the trial that I'm really excited to get to. But before we hear those how about you. Tell me some more about the verdict. Gwynne chopper was brought into the courtroom. Everybody knew that the verdict was about to be announced, and he sort of comes in through a side door, and you could hear him coming before you saw him the clanking of the shackles as the marshals sort of uncuffed him and let him in. And then he steps out, and it was all eyes on him everybody in that courtroom is looking at oh, and he sort of paused and looked around and you could tell that he enjoyed being the center of attention. Even though he probably knew guilty verdict was coming. He was the star of his own show. And I think he took a little bit of pleasure from that. When the verdict was read there just a buzz in the courtroom was packed. They were. Tons of journalists tons of people from the government and everybody was looking at chop awaiting for his reaction. He sort of had a stunned look on his face. He turns and looks at his wife Emma Cornell who's in the courtroom gallery, he nods at her she flashes. Thumbs up she's fighting back tears, and then he gets escorted out of the courtroom by US marshals me go on how where were you? When the verdict was announced. Well, I have to be in let do now by what the were Joppa was bored. I arrived there and I met one of the gunmen, and he told me, oh, you what they'll chapel my uncle was found guilty. And you know, we are stated these kind of disappointed because we felt that he did have a trial. And then we walked over a gun swallows house, which is up jobless model and to was a sitting outside, you know, washing the flowers of jazz outside and idea. Have the guts to tolerate you know, there is a verdict. Your son was found guilty. I say hi doing a high welcomed are you doing just fine? And was had. She heard the news. No, no cheating would nice over. Like, everyone was what you Devi listening to the announcement that she was sitting outsi- house. You know, watching the flowers to stand up sad, the TV no was said because one of his sons in low just died and there were like wedding for the body for the quotes to arrive TV know about the bar. Keegan let's talk a bit about the last month of the trial. Can you describe what that was like the last month of the trial was probably the most dramatic stretch. So some of the people who are close to troppo took the stand and offered all kinds of details about how troppo ran his drug empire in what he was like as a person details like how he mixed business and romance with his mistress. Who was a former state lawmaker in seen a Loa how he threatened to kill anyone who betrayed him. Even if they were his own family members or women how he was so paranoid that he installed spyware on the phones of his wife and other people were close to him. So they could track their movements and secretly eavesdrop on their conversations. And now it's over. Yeah. It's kind of surreal. So a know. There was also information that came out right before the jury went into deliberations where chopper was accused of having sex with minors, Keegan tell us more about those accusations. So according to a court documents that was unsealed at the request of vice. News New York Times, one of the witnesses who was going to testify against troppo had told you authorities that Trump would pay to have young girls brought to him girls as young as thirteen and then he would drug and rape them. The governments in this unsealed document said that they had multiple witnesses who could corroborate the fact that ciampa was using young teenage girls for sex, and that's just another level awful. So outside of those allegations trial was just really complicated. There is a ton of testimony on how the similar will cartel use corruption violence, but before we talk about that talk about corruption. One of the witnesses Aleksey is made some pretty incredible allegations about bribes, right, Alex. If Wednesdays is the younger brother of one of troppo Colombian cocaine suppliers. He was sent to live in the mountains with troppo and was basically his right hand, man. A personal secretary who is taking care of all sorts of business and personal matters for. Oh, and Alex has made some pretty incredible allegations during the trial. He was behind some of the biggest bombshells most notably that chop. Oh, paid a one hundred million dollar bribe to Enrica opinion NATO the former president of Mexico, but not only that he claimed that Pinon yet though, originally asked Chapo for two hundred fifty million dollars and shop oh ever the businessman cagle with the president of Mexico to get it down to one hundred million dollars. That's how he told the story, and I would say that we should take that with a pretty sizable grain of salt because in Ricky opinionated. A was the president when shop was captured twice and also Entropa was extradited from Mexico to the US for this trial. As far as corruption goes, what's the main takeaway here for us to me? It's that the scene alot cartel really could not do business without high level corruption in the Mexican police military and government without folks taking those bribes and turning a blind eye to cartel activities. Or in some cases, actively. Helping the cartel traffic drugs. It just would not operate the way. It does. Now as easily at least. So we got a real peek behind the curtain into how the smell Loa cartel operated. For me. One of the craziest witnesses that came to the stand was Christian Rodriguez who is this systems operator who ended up playing this pivotal role in bringing down chop. Oh, one of the fascinating parts about this is that in order for L troppo to lead the cartel. He needs to be in communication with other people in the cartel. Other leaders his underlings and giving them orders at the same time. The US obviously is trying to monitor his communications. So that they could build their case against him track. Him down one of his solutions was to hire a systems administrator to create a custom encrypted phone network. This guy was a Colombian who was recommended to chop. Oh by one of his Colombian cocaine suppliers. He came up to the mountains in Korea Khan, and did as we said created. An encrypted phone network where they would use the internet to make calls to each other that couldn't be wiretapped or so they thought what happens is that the F B FBI got to the systems administrator foot Tim convinced him to work as informants. And he let them into the server that he set up and the F B I from that was allowed to wiretap dozens and dozens of conversations where troppo thought that he could speak freely about his business, but the whole time the US law enforcement was listening in and recording those conversations. So let's actually listen to one of these wiretap conversations. On a log. No. Hey, so that's Chapo and who's he talking to on the phone right there. He's talking to a guy named Chiloe Yvonne, who is the basically chief enforcer or the the head of a group of Sicario 's of hitmen if troppo needs somebody knocked off he sends Chiloe von and some of his gunmen to do the job, and they're talking about a battle against a rival group in sina Loa, what we can here is that oh really isn't always violence this. This guy told von talking about how he's beating up police officers and these going after anything that moves in this town where they're they're having the conflict and chop. It was telling him chill out like don't don't beat up police officers that's going to cause problems. And at the end of the call von sort of chilling thing where he's just like you taught me to act like a wolf, and I'm acting like a wolf. Okay. So let's listen to one more clip. Gimmick will burn out of here. I cry you. He can. So this is troppo and the voice of an unidentified woman. We don't know exactly who it is. But she is some type of drug wholesaler in the United States. And they're negotiating the shipment of drugs. She's asking for cocaine ciampa says I don't have that right now. But I got a bunch of meth in LA. Can I send that to you? And so she saying, oh, yeah. We can do that. Whatever you want. I have customers all over the midwest. And she says Ohio and shop almost like he's trying the word out for the first time so high. Oh, okay. So what you're saying? Is that Chabot essentially is dictating which drugs or flooding, which American city. That's exactly right. I mean, this is it's a supply base business. And sometimes, you know, you don't have hundreds of kilos cocaine that you can just have at your disposal to send to a customer. He has another drug and says, hey, do you want this method stead? Okay. So big picture, Keegan. What did we learn about? Shop was up rations. We learned that it's as vast as it's been made out to be. We're talking about a supply network that stretches from Colombia Ecuador in Central America to Mexico and Belise and that he supplying drugs that go all the way across the United States and into Canada if you consumed heroin cocaine methamphetamine, and maybe even marijuana anytime for the last thirty years, there's a pretty decent chance that chopper had a hand in it somehow and so two control that network. It seemed like he used a lot of violence is that true. That's absolutely true. I mean, that's something that we talked about earlier of the podcast like, for example, the war for water as we heard testimony about that. How troppo is essentially waging war for control of of entire cities entire states entire regions in Mexico during the trial. We heard from one of the guys who helped chapel commit so much violence. The guy who allegedly arranged the murder of heavier Valdez Miguel on hell's old. Colleague yet. That's dhamma. So Lopez also known as a listen siato who was sort of troppo right hand, man. Lieutenant for a long time. He was a former prison official in Mexico who was instrumental in getting Chabot out in a laundry cart in two thousand one and in digging the tunnel that helped him escape in twenty fifteen people who knew our podcast will recall in episode seven. We talk about the death of hover Vel does who was a journalist at the newspaper riodosa inquiry. Con he was me go on hells friend, and colleague and many people suspect that Dhamma so or at the very least Dhamma so's son was the one who ordered the hit on hover. Valez? He was asked for the first time publicly about that during the trial choppers lawyer and he denied any involvement. He said that it was actually El Chapo sons who were the ones who orchestrated the murder of Javier, Valdez and. Domico and his son with the ones who were sort of set up to take the blame. What do you think about that me, go on hill? Do you think any of that is true is really hard to say if his through all of if he's not? But personally, I don't know what to think so domino claimed on the stand. That chop owes sons forced heavier bell Dez to publish a story. What do you think about that claim is impossible because of your was very honest journalist, and I knew heavier, and I know the newspaper editorial line, so it's impossible. There's no way of with the grid. Something like that. Okay. So what really happened the sons learned somehow that heavier interview Damaso, and they as these personal fable published story steel have your did it goes he thought he he had the very good stories hands. So he basically disobey and Huron story because have you was very honest journalist. And he knew that he had to do it. Even though the consequences that were coming and kicking. What is the main takeaway here in regards like what we learned about the violence in Mexico for me? It was that a lot of ounces personal. It's often business in the sense that there's territory or that there's some dispute that ultimately has to do with the drug business. But in some cases, it's troppo killing somebody because he refused to shake his hand or troppo killing someone because one of his own people was killed and it says a circle of revenge that spirals out of control and leads to drug wars that lasts for years. So what happens now keying? Next thing that happens is troppo sentencing in June. There's no great mystery. He has to get under the law a mandatory life sentence, then he's likely headed to eighty x four ins-. The federal supermax prison in Colorado where the US keeps a lot of high profile prisoners gangleaders terrorist spies, those types of folks and Trump will be in solitary confinement for twenty three hours a day for the rest of his life. Those who say that the war on drugs is not worth fighting. These people are wrong day release American lives every day harm inflicted on this country by drug addiction it every seizure every arrest in every conviction contributes to a noble effort to save American lives. That was the US attorney for the eastern district of New York again talking right after choppers guilty verdict, and he's claiming victory essentially in the war on drugs. Maybe it's it's just one battle. But in his mind, this is a big win to me. It's not that. It's a it's a pure victory. It's drug addiction is as bad as it's ever been in the United States. More people died of overdoses last year than any year before the scene. Alot cartel is still alive and thriving without troppo and supplying a lot of the fennel behind the overdoses in the United States. So for him to get up there and say that that this is a win while at the same time the US continues to lose on a daily basis. Didn't ring true at all to me mcgahn. How do think there is any value and bring to Justice and putting him in prison net doom as just another drug trafficker is in the end, and we're seeing will win this this. The violence in Mexico. He's wars than never the drug addiction in the US even bores than one chapel was on the run. Special. Thanks device. Attorney Yanni Berkovitz who wrote a letter to troppled judge that hope get the documents unsealed about the child rebel Gatien's in the troppo trial. Thanks to me girlfriend is for as our for your Emily saw recess cesspit as Esquivel Molly crane Newman, Adam and his podcast family invert Bank. Tony Royal for more on L troppo in the drug war. Hooting coverage of his trial is it by snooze dot com. Thanks.
EP 3: The Federation
"So late. Which one is somebody call monarch? Okay. Stirring, the sixties then Miami vice came around and everybody wanted to be like Tubbs and Crockett every where white suits and hang around, and you know in a boat feeding alligator in my Miami. And it was like, wow, that's adventure. That's exciting. It's nineteen Eighty-four. Ronald Reagan just won re election in a landslide. The American economy is growing. It seems like cooking is everywhere. It's now the done thing among many rich and otherwise spectacle Americans to take unto cocaine the white DiPoto officially is as illegal as it is expensive. It's good to. I think. I think it keeps them on their toes. And then some if you believe the news pretty much everyone in America is using it kids parents older people are all turning to cocaine marijuana use Ashley on the way down. Laboratory rat we use it from two I was asked by children. What to do if they were offered drugs, and I answered just say, no. Drugs are menacing our society threatening our values and undercutting our institutions, they're killing our children Reagan decides to double down on the war on drugs tonight. I can report to you that we've made much progress. Thirty seven federal agencies are working together and vigorous national effort and by next year our spending for drug law enforcement will have more than tripled from its nineteen Eighty-one levels. But all that coke. Everyone's supposedly doing it's mostly coming from Columbia, and no one seems to know how to stop it published Kabar under a diamond in Miami for his role in setting up cocaine bases in Nicaragua described as Colombia's wealthiest, man. Now, keep in mind at this point troppled. Guzman is still pretty small time. He's working his way up. Hardly anyone outside of Mexico knows who he is. And he's definitely not in the news. At least not yet. Some crazy shit is about it's going to lead to the formation of the scene a Loa cartel and choppers rise to power. In the mid eighties. Escobar is the king of the international drug trade is one of the principal branch offices for what can be called cocaine Inc. A huge international business run by a relatively small band of smugglers operating out of Columbia. His medi geen cartel is said to control eighty percent of the cocaine supply to the United States earnings much as four billion dollars a year this cocaine cartel in many ways is sophisticated as a fortune five hundred company and has a pretty simple system for moving drugs planes and boats golf from Columbia, then go to the coast the drugs often hopscotched through the Carribean the Bahamas often by plane or boat. These boats run cocaine from into Florida at seventy miles an hour. But then the DA starts cracking down on the Caribbean roots, the south Florida taskforce has in the opinion of virtually all knowledgeable observers. Being highly successful in slowing the illegal flow flow of drugs into the United States, which means the Colombians need to find a different way to get their drugs to the US market. And this is where Mexican traffickers like troppo come in. The Mexican traffickers have much moving wheat in Karoi robes growing Mexican, and they have these smuggling routes along the border in cities like Qana, and what's. But now the Colombian traffickers realized that those Mexican border routes. They'll also were perfectly for moving cocaine. The Colombian start making deals with the Mexicans and sending planes to Mexico loaded with coke in the states that border Mexico. Major drug seizures have become increasingly commonplace in just four months. Police in the Los Angeles area have filled up four volts with cocaine more than a billion dollars where we have here over five thousand pounds of cocaine. Walter overflowing, even with increased seizures agents think they face an unhappy reality that overall more drugs are heading north. And most of them are not being stopped. At this point chop was working for another guy from sina Loa named me gal on hell Felix Yaro. Who's basically the big boss? He has a bunch of corrupt. Police officials and politicians in his pocket, and he controlled many of the smuggling routes to the US people used to call FedEx, El padrino, the godfather. But the DA has an aggressive agent named KiKi Camerena go after El padrino and the people who work with him and in nineteen Eighty-four Camerena tips off Mexican authorities to a huge marijuana farm called a boo flow. The belongs to one of L Pacino's partners a guy named Rafael Caro Quintero agent Camarena was working undercover. When he exposed Caro Conteh rose massive marijuana operation. The bust is said to have cost karaoke and terro associates eight billion dollars in lost sales, El padrino, Caro Quintero and the rest of the guys they work with are pissed and about a year later in one thousand nine hundred five they do the one thing that supposedly off limits, even for drug traffickers, they mess. With the DA agent. American on Ricky Camarena Salazar went to Mexico to fight international drug traffickers kidnapped a month ago in Mexico. They kidnap endore to come. And then the killer today the US drug enforcement agent was flown home to California with honors by hero in a flag. Draped coffin officials in Mexico today. Promised arrests in the kidnapper, send killings soon the DA wants revenge. So they dial up their efforts to capture El padrino in his partners. It's important to remember that during the time. The Reagan administration is cracking down on the drug trade around nineteen Eighty-four eighty five. It's also accused of enabling some drug trafficking in the region, or at least turning a blind eye to it. As part of the efforts to fund the contra rebels in Nicaragua investigation into the secret double-dealing of arms for Iran and cash for the contras widened out today, the contras are trying to overthrow Nicaragua's government, which is backed by the Soviet Union. Word was out that President Reagan himself is among those subjected to questions this whole thing is known as the Iran contra scandal because it also involves selling arms to Iran. I know it's insane. But the point is will Reagan cracking down on the drug trade. He's also supporting it behind the scenes. After the murder of the DA agent KiKi Camerena car catano marijuana farm Cameron had busted flees to Costa Rica, just two months later. Caro Quintero is captured extradited back to Mexico where he's been tried and convicted. Why he's an argument. Because he likes then the reporter asked trafficking is moaning. Title says nothing is UNITA and then four years later L Pacino that kingpin who troppo was working for he gets arrested. It's nineteen Eighty-nine. And now at three Newsom fire breaks into all these smaller groups in court documents from troppled case prosecutors claim all these factions start working together to smuggle Colombian cocaine the US government caused this new group the federation. Lot of people, including me believe it's more complicated than that. These guys are definitely not all working together. Like in a form of business day help each other one is convenient. They also compete and they also kill each shoulder. Dr disagreements either way this moment went L padrino is taken out of game it seen as the birth of Mexican drug trafficking. As we now know it point. Mexico has different Kartal for each poultry. And each control key smuggling route to the US McCarthy horse-cart troppo who's known for being hard working and creative also gets a piece of the action. And this is when he starts to really make a name from self prosecutors in the US say L chapels Colombian suppliers began calling him the fussed one because he gets drugs border in record time any comes up with all kinds of new ways to smuggle cocaine one piece of evidence that could be used at his trial is a can of chili peppers at one point hundreds of these things were seized at the border packed with more than seven tons of cocaine apparently Trump who actually opened his own cannery to make these things. Of course, also known for being ruthless. There's taking years later the beers to show him into a member of the set discard. Another time. Federal prosecutors say chuckled kept a couple of tied up ate lunch. Then shot them in the head. He quote, ordered his workers to dig a hole in the ground light a fire inside the whole and throw the bodies in the hole to be burned and subsequently buried. The drug smugglers tunnel, honest from here on the US side. It ran for five hundred meters all the length of six football fields under the border to the Mexican side. But was rule allows them to get ahead of everyone else is that his starts using tunnels under the water to smuggle huge quantity. Subtracts the smugglers had installed a rudimentary railway system on the tunnel. Also has lighting and ventilation to make the stonewalls Chapa, high professional, architects and engineers. They take monster build some even have hidden entries into open them. You have to pull a secret level each tunnel. Requires a team of people to dig and move heavy equipment. The New Yorker reported the chop was people would trick construction workers into coming to a building site then pulled gun until the workers. They had to stay until the job was finished. And then afterward workers would be killed. So they couldn't lead anyone back to the tunnel. Would this chap was able to move drugs? Fosters anyone else which? Business of the traffickers. And by nineteen ninety of chop was fighting with the cartel. Someone shoots up a nightclub where the two brothers who run the Tijuana cartel party four people are killed but not the brothers, and they believe Chapo is responsible for the attack. And that's when the cartel would surprise chapels head. A few months after the two cartel puts out this order to kill troppo. He's at the airport in Guadalajara, supposedly about to leave for vacation one of the cars. He's known to travel in is a white mercury. Grand marquee. There are a couple different versions of what happens next, according to one gangsters who work for the Tijuana cartel are also at the airport, and they think they've got chop in their sights the opened fire on a white mercury grand marquee, and they leave behind a dead body only. It's the wrong car the wrong guy. The men they just killed setup official in Mexico for the Catholic church. Mexican police are still trying to figure out what happened one theory that rival gangs of drug traffickers were shooting it out among those caught in the crossfire cardinal one Posadas compo, the Catholic archbishop of Guadalajara. That's what I believe these gangsters working for all chapel. Just hit the wrong guy. The intended victim now in custody in Mexico Joaquin goes smart like drug Lord from the state of Sinoloa rival drug lords wanted him dead. But not everyone buys that theory. Gonzales is a retired DA agent who was working in Mexico. When the cardinal was killed, the most office red light is the fact that the cardinal was trust in Catholic. And his full karnal regalia to meet the secretary of state and wearing across his chest. He doesn't think the hitman could have mistaken the cardinal for troppo when he was shot. He was shot some numerous times. But it was it was it was very accurate shooting. It was in the chest. The forensics report says the cardinal was shot from about three feet away. You're gonna go in for the kill. And you're going to see the person's is bang bang. Bang bang. Okay. It's hard for me to believe that you you pump you real person with bullets, and you still think he's chopping when he's dressed like a cardinal. The cardinal was heading to meet an emissary from Pope, John Paul the second some people including Gil think that he was going to tell the Vatican. That officials at the highest levels of the Mexican government in the pocket of drug traffickers and that somebody maybe the cartels. Maybe the government wanted him silence. In any case, the kill him, a huge spotlight directly own El chapel was was the cardinal that put him on the map so to speak that made his name known to everyone in the DA to everyone in Mexico. It was a major event it was like when the Beatles were the television show kind of like it was with with chapel. It was chapels welcome to the world of fame. After these Chapa goes on the rod and the Mexican government launches these huge Manhattan a couple of weeks later, they cut your him in what the Malla and bring him back to Mexico ciampa wasn't responsible for the killing of the carton. It just seems like he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. But he gets blamed for it. Anyway. Well, it's not like she was the only one being blame this to Carter's worn award and the cardinal got killed. So the government went up to twenty. I maybe the government wanted to make Trump was scapegoat. Or maybe he got set up by his enemies to take him out of the game. Either way ciampa was getting too big. The government parades troppo in front of the cameras, and it becomes the first conic image of him. Trump was young and clean shaven. He's wearing a puffy jacket and baseball cap with a flat brim a reporter asks what he does for living and chapel smirks. Say that again. He's just a farm that he grows corn and beans. So the first years, I think two three years at chapel was minded wise in LT plan in these maximum security prison, and he had fun. I mean, he was just another guy there on Abell Hernandez is Mexican investigative journalist who's broken a bunch of stories on troppo and her book Narko land make some controversial accusations about the Mexican government's collusion with drug traffickers on a bell says that while Trump was in prison. He has powerful friends on the outside who keep his business running keep bribes flowing government officials and that eventually they get chuckled transferred to new prison. Where he's treated very differently. But. Who has like we saw for a chapel? He was like the king. He bribed in thyroid system. I heard fishermen from signal used to bring seafood for him to have for dinner, according to honor bell at point 'Grande troppled. Not only orders takeout redecorates his cell. He brings in hookers throughs parties it goes on like this for years. And then. Post of Mexican history. Totally changes and early morning rally at Mexico City's independence monument, president elect be sent a FOX and fifteen thousand of his supporters celebrating his stunning victory day, many Mexicans thought they would never see the ruling party the pre toppled from power after seventy years single-party rule. Mexico legs up resident from a different party be sent folks. It's two thousand one and with the new government in power many of the alliances that narcos need to do business have to be renegotiated around the same time. Mexico's supreme court rules that more top drug traffickers can be extradited to the US. And that includes troppo a few weeks later, he escapes. Most of the Mexican media reports that they'll chop sticks are person hiding in these loud to court that he had held on just one guy. This dude who works at prison who supposedly was out. And that's it. But Ana Bill says. That's all wrong. According to her Krupp federal officials knew exactly what was happening and even gave Trump a police uniform. And then let them walk out the front gate Keita's caving the luxury car he was just walking by the from door on dressed as policemen. He took it then he took on lily Carter that were very near to the patient, and he runaway personally, I think out in a laundry cart. But it's really hard to know. When we were up in Trump was whom town tuna, we asked his sister Bernarda if she knew how he really escaped simply HOGAN got it Daloa. You saying that they'll chapel west over that he'd be the scaping all new card and social saying that most people talk, but they have no idea. What about like so many stories about chop is almost impossible to know what really happened. But even if on bell Bernarda, disagree on how troppo escaped the degree on one thing that he couldn't have gotten out unless you had to help on the inside north port. No, I'm Nadia knowledge to ninety. So little middle says that dull chapel never force open the door never kill car or hurt anyone during this gapes. Then she tells us that the government are the ones who let him go. She says no one gets out of prison unless somebody else open store. However troppo escapes when he gets out almost immediately. He's more powerful than ever. So we we were talking about Chapo he goes to prison. How does he come out in two thousand one in after his escape and suddenly be that level that that top guy? It was someone who came out of prison and said, okay, no, I'm gonna go back and pick up where I left off. And because it is rightly mine, I it is my inheritance. So it didn't it didn't take long before. He he went back to his sources people who knew him and reestablished himself, and he did it now with more of of they tried, but they did succeed now show them what I'm really capable of. To do this chop who needs to control smuggling routes to the US and the federal prosecutors leading the case against him. See this is the moment when he turns his part of the federation that formed back in the late eighty s into the ceelo cartel. I don't buy that. Like I said before a chapel and everyone else had own opperations what they do is sometimes chur gunmen transportation to minimize coast. But they have to pay to his issue. Other smuggling Roach just don't get access for free. And this is a problem because the water is cartel controls the border in west, Texas, and they have some of the best smuggle meets pretty soon. There are tensions between chop. Oh. And the leader of the waters, cartel Centric view. And when he got to the point where we sent the toast shop for your money's. No good for me morning. I don't care about the money the tax not moving drugstore territory. That's a declaration of war. Next time. Trump was war turns waters into one of the most dangerous cities in the world. This is on the kid case get him. Flu says that when her kids were killed there were soldiers everywhere on the streets on the rooftops. But still they couldn't do anything. This is the last episode that will be available everywhere as in all the usual places. You get your podcasts the rest of the series. We'll be streaming exclusively on Spotify for free. You can listen to the entire series on the Spotify app and their website. Also, there is another version of this podcast. And it's all in Spanish that version is called troppo. No cafe. And it's also bailable on Spotify. For more. I know troppo his trial and the drug war. Visit vice news dot com.
Chapo Big House
"Support for this Monday January fourteenth. Twenty nineteen episode of today explained comes from hellofresh right now, you can get eighty dollars off your first month by going to hellofresh dot com slash explained eight zero and you enter the promo code explained eight zero. That's hellofresh dot com slash explained eighty and enter the promo code explained eighty eighty dollars off your first month. My my real regret of all of this is that there is no camera in the federal courts. If this case, we're televised. It would be on every network. You know, the first couple of times that I was in court troppo comes out escorted by US marshals. It was sort of almost an on Spiring moment where there's a hush comes over the courtroom. And everybody's looking really intently all eyes are on this guy. But I gotta say that you know, as the weeks of worn on that allure has worn off sort of an everyday he seems just more and more like a normal human being, but it's probably safe to call him a mass murderer. You ever catch? Those mass murderer is. Having deed. He has sort of a full bore stare. And it'll Trump was wife Emiko renounce is right behind us. And I sort of had my back turned to the courtroom and was making small talk just Chit chatting with his wife, and I could see her sort of looking over my shoulder, and I turned around and he'd been trying to get her attention, but I was talking to her and I just got the full stare, and there's a moment where it's almost panic not in your stomach illegal. My God am I in trouble and twenty two co some government protection? And then you're like way surrounded by US marshals he's in solitary confinement in a maximum security federal jail. But it's easy to see how somebody who was on the receiving end of that stare when he wasn't in US custody would be deeply scared and indeed trouble. He can Hamilton has been reporting from the troppo trial in Brooklyn for vice news. He's also the host of their troppo podcast. It sounds like this. This man makes a living falcons of Americans will on drugs is Joaquin El Chapo Guzman also known as in chapel the short book chapel Smith's like the old SAMA bin Laden of job trafficky pits, the ultra violence ultra lucrative similar Loa drug cartel. So rich made the Forbes magazine billionaires list using boats submarine airplanes, marijuana cocaine heroin, meth thought to be responsible for a quarter of his load here in the US history from a maximum security prison for the second town capital of land eskimo, the El Chapo clue spot. He's like a God tens of thousands of died in US, Mexico because of him. And tonight, we are tracking big development Mexican drug kingpin has been extradited to the US to face charges for his role as the head of the cartel. I'm Keegan hamels and this is chopped. For the initiated who is L chop. Oh, so El Chapo is Joaquin El Chapo Guzman, low era, he is a leader of the scene a Loa cartel, which is one of if not the most powerful, drug trafficking organization in Mexico. He's been active in the drug trade, basically since the late seventies. And was one of the most powerful drug lords in Mexico through the ninety s in two thousand up until his final capture in two thousand sixteen and he was captured by Mexican authorities United States authorities. He was captured by Mexican authorities with a lot of help from the United States, particularly the FBI and the DA. Why is he being tried in Brooklyn that was one of several jurisdictions in the United States that had an indictment for him. Some of the others included, Texas, California, Florida, but New York. Offers one of the highest security federal jails in the country in Manhattan, the MC, and because the US government knows this is a high profile trial and wants a lot of is to be on it. So to maximize the press coverage courthouses operating like a fortress right now, Joaquin El Chapo goose von is facing seventeen counts, including drug trafficking kidnapping and murder to jurors already dismissed highlighting the heavy burden on a jury in a trial expected to last four months. What was it like to select a jury to sit in this trial? I mean that feels like maybe the most dangerous public service. You can imagine you saw a lot of people. I was one of the five reporters in the courtroom as they were picking these jurors, and I'd say at least a quarter. Maybe a third of those folks said there's no way I'm going to be on this jury because I'm afraid for my life. Ultimately, all of the twelve jurors and the six alternates who they picked are anonymous. They do get go home to their families every night. They're not success turned in a hotel room, but they are escorted to and from the courthouse by US marshals and troppo gets to look them in the eye every single day. I mean, this is a guy who's been accused of gruesome murders, who's being accused of being responsible for maybe hundreds thousands more. He's escaped from prison multiple times. Is there a sense that you know, trying him in Brooklyn court is dangerous. It's pretty far fetched to think that there's a way that the cartel. Could try to bust him out and the security of the courthouse itself is very intense. They have bomb sniffing dogs. They have radiation detectors in case. Somebody tries to bring a dirty bomb in. But a funny thing happened in early January when the trial resumed after the winter break. Right before the trial is getting underway for the day when the courtroom was packed troppo is at the defense table with his lawyers. I think there was even a witness on the stand about to testify the lights went out, and it was just pitch black. You couldn't see your hand in front of your face. And one of the reporters in the row this y'all. He's gone. There's a moment of panic where everybody looks no he's just sitting right there at the table. And we laugh did he laugh he didn't speak English. I don't know that he understood what was just said. But the US marshals in the ones who are in charge of guarding him in the courtroom and making sure it doesn't escape I'm sure we're not amused. By that joke. Because we are talking about like one of the most Shirley sophisticated drug operations ever. What have been sort of the more remarkable moments in the trial? The more remarkable revelations so far in the trial. We've had nine major cooperating witnesses and they've run the gamut from some of his major Colombian cocaine suppliers who are in US custody to his Mexican cartel associates. Some of his right hand men, his top lieutenants, and then some more obscure figures just recently, we heard from a guy who is best described as the scene Loic cartels, IT guy. He set up an encrypted communication system for the cartel and then became an informant and let the FBI into that that network so that they could obtain recordings of Chapo discussing cartel business on the phone. Give us on on coke with. I'm the committed. If they sit in their women it. Rants on badly. The phone calls at the FBI was able to get from these servers really were just a window into the day to day operations the cartel. And you you see that that chopper was essentially a micromanager he is in constant communication with his underlings directing every aspect of his business. He's he's getting on the phone with corrupt. Police commanders to ask for favors. He's talking to his chief enforcer about how to battle a rival cartel group on top of that perhaps the most salacious thing that we heard from the IT guy was that chop. Oh was obsessed with spying on people who worked for him in not just his employees. But also the women in his life his wife Emiko now and his mistresses he had the IT guy install commercial spyware on their cell phones. So that he could remotely turn on the microphones on their phones. Compare what they were. Saying after he'd finished talking to them. Just your friendly neighborhood, totally insecure drug Lord, I also here they were like a set of twins who testified against him. Do do twins go at the same time or do. They still have to go one by one. Actually, they just put the same twin up there twice and say, it's a different guy. The forest twins. Pedro and Margarito Florez were wholesalers for Chicago were born and raised in Chicago. And then fled the US when they were under indictment went to seen a Loa and became basically, some of troppo top drug distributors in the United States, and we heard from one of those twins, so far we might hear from another before it's all said and done who described the complete supply chain. How drugs get from Colombia to Mexico smuggled across the border, and then make their way to Chicago and distributed across basically, the entire netted states, and how executives at work a lot of bribes is a big part of it paying the next of kin and Colombian authorities to make sure that the shipments. Get from South America to Mexico in to the border without being intercepted by the authorities there and then at the border, there's just. That enormous array of smuggling techniques, none of which a giant wall at the border would stop in most cases, they were being smuggled across the border through semi trucks commercial trucks with hidden compartments. The also used trains one of their favourite tactics was to use oil tankers like railcars with oil tankers on them. And those had secret compartments at either end, and they would fill the tankers up with and they said vegetable oil or some type of cooking oil. So that anybody who popped the top on this container would look in and see oil and say, I don't want to mess with getting in there trying to train that and it proved to be remarkably effective crazy. Every day brings something new for me. The one of the big takeaways is that for an outsider or somebody who just follows the sort of casually hear the name troppo. And you assume that he's the one guy at the top calling all the shots. But it it's way more complicated than that. And the prosecutors as they've laid out their case had made it clear that that chopper was not the only major drug trafficker the scene. Alot cartel was a federation is another word that they've used to describe it of top traffickers who each sort of had their own factions or or networks, and they would cooperate when it suits them. And they would work individually when it benefited them, so there's troppo, and then there's a half dozen other guys who were coordinating their own drug shipments. The way that I've explained it to people is think of it like a major corporation something like GM where it's a brand name that. Everybody knows. But under that, there's all these other brands there Chevy. There's GM there's Buick and they're all under the umbrella of GM, but they're their own sort of businesses as well. And you can't get to the top of a corporation like GM without at least some people admiring you right? Like, El Chapo, though, intensely feared is also loved by some people in Mexico. Yes. It depends where you are in Mexico in his home state of sina Loa, you'd hear from people who say, yeah. Troppo he he fills the void that the government doesn't pay for roads he pays for planes to transport sick people to the hospital from the mountains. Kidney. And this is why they're like thousands of folk songs written about him right yet. The Narko Korea does our facet of the Mexican cartel world. Will they will they will in some cases commission artists to make songs sing their praises and troppo has many many Narko career does we're independent. So he's got that sort of Narko, Robin Hood reputation in his home state. But we also spoke to folks in Mexico City who called him a parasite who said this guy is a criminal and he gives our country a bad name. Bye. Coming up prisoner escape, Sean Penn. And unusually large taco order this today. Explain. Yet is. Southwest chicken and peppers with yellow rice and black beans this packs all your favorite southwest flavors into one delicious bowl seriously. It's like a Tex-Mex treasure hunt for tasty toppings and you'll find chili and cumin spiced chicken, creamy black beans tangle of tender peppers and a dollop of Tangy sour cream. The base is a bit of golden rice, which gets beautiful color from to Mark the spice that's been around for centuries comes from the root to plan from the ginger family, and it's known for its earthy flavor and signature deep yellow color. If you like recipes and food, but don't like going outside. Try hellofresh. You get eighty dollars off your first month by going to hellofresh dot com slash explained eight zero when you enter the promo code explained eighty. That's hellofresh dot com slash explained eight zero and the promo code explained eight zero they'll. Bring the food and the recipes to your. So who exactly is L chop where did he come from Mexico? What was his childhood? Like did he wanna grow up to be a drug Lord? El Chapo was born in a tiny tiny village in the mountains of sina Loa, which is in the Sierra Madre mountains in area called the golden triangle this area is incredibly poor. And it's a solid four hour drive from the nearest major city econ over some incredibly rough roads, the famous story is that his family had nothing. And so he would sell oranges by the side of the road to to bring in a little extra money for his family. Eventually he has many people do in that area of Mexico realize that the only way to provide for your family was to start growing marijuana and opium poppies which get processed into heroin, and he parlayed his his drug crops into the multi million dollar empire that eventually became and what is it about his rise that led to empire? What made him? Him more savvy than your average drug dealer or your average entrepreneur. I think everybody agrees that chopper was just a smart guy. Good businessmen. The big innovation that chop was credited with is building tunnels underneath the border smuggling tunnels and that supposedly earned him the name L wrapping dove from Colombian cocaine suppliers because they would ship their product to Mexico and troppled get it across the border in record time. Even today with the DA and homeland security is still finding cross-border tunnels in in San Diego Zona that part of the border. Narrow wanna before legalization in the United States was a big cash crop to the cartel heroin, which the cartel can control the production because they can grow the poppies in Mexico was another big one, but the moneymaker what really changed the game was was cocaine and for a number of years back in the late seventies and eighties in public Vars. Heyday Colombians would ship the cocaine pretty much directly from Colombia to the United States. It would go through the Caribbean called the Caribbean route. But when the US started cracking down on that the Colombians needed a new way to get their product to market and the obvious solution was the giant land border with Mexico. So they started working with chop. Oh and other major Mexican traffickers to ship cocaine across the land border, and that is what really changed the game in Mexico, and and brought a huge influx of cash and power to the Mexican cartels. So as he's. Making this or meteoric rise to being the king of this empire. What's the sort of byproduct of it? Tell me about the ugliness of this rise violence is an unavoidable part of the drug business. This is basically a corporations seen a little cartel is in a legal corporation. If there's a business dispute of some kind you can go to civil court and have your lawyer settled in the drug trade. They don't have that luxury and inevitably violence is the way to solve those problems. So there's killings over drug debts and there's killings over just rivalries as you get powerful cartel figures. Many of whom came from the same rural area seen a as troppo. There's sort of lifelong grudges and win one active violence has met with retaliation which starts a whole spiral that can become a war. What we saw a few years ago in Ciudad Juarez along the border with Paso, Texas can be basically traced back to a personal dispute between El troppo and the leader of the Juarez cartel that got out of hand and made water as the murder capital of the western hemisphere. For a good four years with drug cartels battling over control the city and smuggling routes into the United States. The people of Juarez say the killings only stop when the Mexican national teams playing on TV. Or when it's raining outside. As these killings and death tolls. Take up at what point exactly does law enforcement start trying to track them down. I mean law enforcement had been trying to track troppo down basically since the early nineties. He was successfully captured in nineteen Ninety-three and spent the next eight years in prison. He was in prison in Mexico from nineteen ninety three to two thousand one and then he escapes and was on the run again from two thousand one until two thousand fourteen and then he was imprisoned briefly escaped again in two thousand fifteen you know, who knows how hard the Mexican authorities really were trying to capture him. We've we've heard a lot about corruption in this trial. And it's clear that he was allowed to operate an immediate. He's allowed to escape because he had paid off the right people the first time he escapes from prison. How exactly does he do it? Purportedly troppled. I escaped from prison in two thousand one occurred when he hid in a laundry cart underneath close that prison employees wheeled out the front gate of the prison. We heard an alternative theory to that that he paid off the prison officials and was actually dressed as a federal police officer and walk out the front row. And the second time he gets out of prison house. You do that ten Trump? Second prisoner. Scape is undoubtedly his most incredible and daring moment that involved him being in a maximum security prison in having his people dig tunnel that was a mile long from a house just outside the prison. Wow. That went right up into the shower of his cell, and he just duck down disappears. And inside that tunnel to have a little icing on the cake. Here was a rail that a motorcycle mounted on it. So troppled gets on this motorcycle and rides to freedom. But the US authorities were trying very very hard to capture him especially toward the end from say two thousand eight to two thousand sixteen when he was caught finally a dramatic capture the world's most wanted most dangerous drug Lord Joaquin. El Chapo whose mind back in Mexican custody tonight, Mexico's president announcing mission accomplished after nearly six month manhunt for the sin alot cartel cheat. And how's he finally caught? It's ridiculous. But I have to say it. He was given away by very large taco order. He was weird was hiding out in a city called Los Mochis, which is in on the coast scene, a Loa, and they knew that he was there somewhere, but they didn't know exactly where and they followed one of his men who'd gone out to get food for this. All these gunmen who were hiding out with chop, the safehouse tailed and back and figured out where he was then this whole shootout, ensued. He almost escape through tunnel again. And they ultimately found him. Do we have any idea? How many tacos that guy ordered? I know what type of. And then of course, there Sean Penn we can't talk about L Trump was captured without talking about Sean Penn. Yeah. Let's talk about Sean Penn. How the hell is Sean Penn landing El Chapo interview, the peak of. L chop a while. He was on the run after his second prison escape had been interested in telling his life story Nuttal and vanilla. But this is ziebel but Rita day, the insane. Sam man, he had contacted an actress named Kato Custodio who's the starve Mexican soap opera. I want you to produce a movie about my life, and she contacts, Sean Penn through friends and says we can go meet troppo, and they go up to one of his mountain hideouts. And while they're there, Sean Penn's is by the way, I wanna write an article about this for Rolling Stone magazine because I think that there is and there has been in the American culture romance of the and it turns out that the Mexican authorities had been surveilling both Tokyo, and they'll troppo L chop who was captured, and then Sean Penn's story and Rolling Stone came out a few days later, I see him as one man with the imagination and perhaps the entrepeneurship drive. He had attached to something. That is experienced in its harvesting and selling. In a very different way. That is experienced since usage should like the US marshals have arrested, Sean Penn when he got back into the United States for like coordinating with El Chapo. I think if you think he'd be charged with crimes against journalists. L troppo being on trial in Brooklyn in New York in a sense makes good sense because his work his empire extended up. Right. I mean, the hub of his United States operations was Chicago. Probably someone was drugs or making it all the way up to Canada. Right. We heard testimony that he was had business extensively in Vancouver supplying methamphetamine heroin cocaine, and he was definitely supplying significant amounts of cocaine to New York, we've we've heard testimony about warehouses that belong to Chapo that were seized in in Queens, New jersey where they found hundreds and hundreds of kilos of cocaine the belong to chop ceelo cartel. And key you live in New York. I imagine you've met a cocaine user to in your time there. The vice offices in Williamsburg, so certainly I have encountered a cocaine user or to my time in New York City, and you know, like just to be real your second. I have friends who by like, fair trade coffee organic tomatoes. They won't buy a car because of the toll on the environment. But they don't ever ask questions about where their drugs come from about. Whether they're white powder at the dance party comes from. And just wonder like how do they fit into this story at the end of the day? If there was no demand for drugs in the United States. There would be no cartels supply, those drugs US, consumers of drugs are ultimately the ones who are responsible for the drug trade chopper. Oh, and every other Mexican trafficker is just supplying a product that they know will get them money from the United States and sitting in that courtroom and seeing his trial. Do you think it'll change a thing? The most compelling argument. I've heard in favor of saying that this changes something is that chopper, oh for many years was sort of the face of impunity. Like he can get away with it because he can buy off whoever needs to buy off. He's he's so powerful that he he can't be brought to Justice. So in the sense that bringing troppled the United States and convicting him shows that that no one is above the law. I think there is something to be said for that. On the flip side. There is no change in terms of the supply of drugs United States. So I think that there's a symbolic value in in convicting him and him being sentenced to life in prison seems inevitable. But in terms of practical impact is this making any dense. No. Keegan Hamilton writes about drugs and crime for vice news. If you want more, El Chapo wanna follow Kiekens work. He's sitting in the courtroom every day until this over and he's making a podcast about it. It's called shop. I'm Shawn Rama's jerem. This one's called today explained. Hellofresh has a fresh offer for twenty nineteen. It's to get eighty dollars off your first month of food delivery and recipes livery to your house you go to hellofresh dot com slash explained eight zero and guess what? The promo code is explained. Eight zero gets eighty dollars off at hellofresh dot com slash explained eighty.
EP 8: The Trial
"German board at John F Kennedy International Airport. You should not exhibit offers of transportation from anyone without prior arrangement. Mexico city. Says number was very says arrived at twelve forty eight's terminal four. Avenida smoke New York. Hey, are you doing get to see you sign? I love the personalities. Here. Good. Good. It was good. So what's up guys? To then in. Episode the. Morning on in-depth today. One of the most anticipated criminal trials in year watching this one opening statements in the case against drug kingpin, Joaquin El Chapo Guzman or came Goodman known as Al trap ho began today in New York. It was the seal the travel is that much. Job boost to bec- attorney said his client was not running a violent drug cartel and called for him to be a quick expect last up to four months. We're about six weeks into troppled trial covering it has been intense. Everything about the case feels historic. This is the first time ever a case against a Mexican drug kingpin has gone to trial in an American court, all the other major traffickers that have been extradited to the US from Mexico have pled guilty and cut deals with the government to get lighter sentences. And now a lot of those guys are being called to testify against L troppo personally. I never thought this day would come the try with actually happen because I didn't think Mexican government would let all of the details about grubs from VM bailed. A lot of this stuff that has come up in court is what we as Mexicans array feel. We know that the Goldman is corrupt the high level of facials, including presidents have taken rights from cartels. The prosecution is expected to call a total of sixteen of these witnesses during the trial. Some of them have already taken the stand. The first one was he's used some badeah. The brother Veltrop was partner in the Loa cartel. He talked about bribing officials from nearly every level of the Mexican government. Another Garth guide. Name L Gordo chapels. Formerly tenant this fide. That L will try getting killed four separate times once by throwing grenade into his prison cell. And then there was true. Patea one of the cartels main co connections in Columbia to pay has had a bunch of plastic surgery and looks like a cartoon villain with huge cheekbones in skin stretched too tight over his vase. He admitted to ordering one hundred fifteen murders and said he and the scene Loa cartel ship forty thousand tons of cocaine the US the tooled the most important witnesses are actually twin brothers who worked at you actually for chapel. Making millions running his rugs into. The US until they turn on him those brothers as we are recording. This are expected to take the stand this week. It was their cooperation that provided some of the most valuable intelligence the US government has ever gotten on Mexican cartels these twins. The Flora's brothers are American born and raised in Chicago. If the Sinoloa cartel was a corporation. It's US headquarters would be here in Chicago since the mid nineties Chicago has essentially been considered the seen alot cartels main base of operations in the United States for good reason, Chicago's location and easy access to a wide variety of transportation. So you're saying in essence the most powerful drug Lord in the world is operating out of this city. I'm saying the most dangerous criminal in the world is chapel Guzman. And this is one of his hubs. It really is Chicago that put shop on the map in the US in twenty thirteen the Chicago crime commission named. Chapo public enemy number one. He was the first guy to earn that title since Al Capone, and according to the DA, the ceelo cartel supplies eighty percent of the drugs and Chicago streets, and that's where star witnesses Pedro. And Margarito Flora's come in their plea grown was Chicago. They're toys luxury cars and jewelry bay through in Margate. The Florida's started out a street level dealers in little village. Authorities say they ran the largest drug distribution network in the history of Chicago until a few years ago. The Florus twins were two of troppo most trusted partners in the US. They started out when they were just seventeen years old and over the course of a decade. They built an empire worth an estimated two billion dollars. Then they decide to rut on El Chapo. Doors superheavy. When you consider either. Hi, I'm Mitch. I mean. So. Nice to meet you. We're not we don't have a visual. Thank you. We did it interview earlier this morning, and we were in full wig just because it was a visual as well. When you first started was there, like an element. That is like this is fun. We get like change identities and dress up and disguise yourself. Not at all. You know? It's yeah. I it's it's very different. Sometimes I'm telling me, I'm like, I don't even know what's real anymore. So I'm Livia Florez Mary to Margarito floor is I go by this name just because I don't want anybody to know my real name because we're in hiding my husband cooperated against chapel guthman, and we have to keep a low profile because we are basically being hunted. My name is meal. Florez? I am married to Pedro floors and meal. Flyers of course is not my real name. And I live in hiding and live in fear of topple and his hunch men while their husbands are in prison Mia in Libya received protection from the federal government. They were wigs and glasses to disguise themselves in public and live in an undisclosed location. We talked to them in New York the week before chop was trial began no one not even Mia Livia new win. Their husbands would take the stand. Yeah. It's just everything is still up in the air, which is crazy. Because it's like less than a week away Mia and Livia and the twins all grew up on Chicago's west side. I grew up in the Pilsen neighborhood, which is right next to little village little village and fields are the largest Mexican American communities in the midwest. You know, my father is a Chicago police officer, and you know, he he worked hard his whole life. And he taught us how to do the right thing. In fact, both Libya and MIA'S fathers were Chicago cops. And in one of the many twists that makes their stories seem more like Hollywood than real life. They both ended up marrying brothers who came from a family of drug traffickers identical. Twin brothers Mia remembers when the twins moved into her neighborhood. She knew them as Peter and junior. So when he moved into my neighborhood, it was kind of ironic, you know, him and his family who of course, my father was one of the police officers that raided his home the rate on their father happened before they were. Born while their mother was still pregnant their dad was sent to federal prison for drug trafficking. He was gone till the voice for seven when he got out of prison. You know, they were just so eager to learn from him. Like they loved him like they just wanted to be in his life. And you know, he had these two little boys putting their hands in the gas tanks. Pulling out his drugs that he was smuggle Peter junior work with their father and older brother smuggling drugs from Mexico by run nine hundred ninety eight started their own operation there. I drug transaction being thirty kilos of cocaine which is well over a million dollars. And we're talking about seventeen year old kids, you know, moving this kind of work in Chicago before long they were wholesalers moving hundreds of kilos a month cross, Chicago and other midwestern cities when they started dating their future, husbands, alleviate and Mia were in their early twenties. And they knew the twins were trafficking. The guys ran a huge operation. When did you first realize that they were kind of a big? Deal in the drug business would have to say someone is when I started dating pay Joel he had to stop at one of his houses, my brother-in-law and my husband. They would have these stash houses in like, author out the, cities, and suburbs. One being that. I remember was right by the Oprah studio. So this is a really beautiful town home. And when I went in the house at this like a wall opened up, and you know, there was a money stacked. And knows you know, what do you mean? The wall opened up like it just it just opened up like you can actually walk in there. So you just walking draw. It just comes out just a couple steps in there. So really like you've seen a movie where they pulled off the shelf match. Below seven stump. Just like that. So you know, just seeing that. And I was like, of course, you know, you don't I I don't know if I took it in like I should of being so young. We're talking twenty one years old driving around in Bentleys and Rolls Royces. I four the. Every truck dealers nightmares. When your phone is going, you know ringing ringing ringing, like, you know, something's going wrong. The feds redid their homes and stash houses arrested their workers hit their whole operation. Olivia junior already living in Mexico. When it happened the morning after the raid. Peter fled the country and met up with them. Olivia had hoped that moving to Mexico would be a path out of dealing trucks. I told my husband to stay don't want to go back to Chicago. I just can't take it. Instead, it only takes him Dipper at that point. They were fugitives of the US. I was like oh my God. His partnering crime is here. This is we take ones that Ford. We're taking two steps back after a few months Mia, who's twenty two at the time decided to follow Peter to Mexico lied parents until them Peter had an opportunity to develop real estate the truth. Was that the twins were expanding their drug trafficking business? They just started upping their stash houses, they started recruiting more workers. They I mean, they would get on Google earth. And they would start going down the streets to see where they wanna get their new stash houses a verse the twins worked with the snow Kartal be a middleman, a friend of their dads who the called the ankle through him the were by millions of dollars worth of drugs in bolt and distributing through the rebuild networks. A US within a year that are working directly with Trump. Everything changed that was like a whole 'nother level. It all starts with Peter getting kidnaps. This is actually the second time. It's happened. This time junior decides to go straight to troppo. So we're sitting there me as tears pregnant almonds. Here's and my husband's basically saying that he is going to see the Hawas because he needs to speak to chapel. He went because he thought Trump was the only person who could free his brother exactly because nothing happens in Mexico without chapel knowing and so I'm like, there's no way you're going to the gun, and he was like I have to do this because my brother's not going to get out of this. And I don't go find out what's going on with him. They're going to kill him. Healy's, and I basically wanted die because me, and I thought that we were never going to see junior. Again, he was not coming back. Now at this point the twins have never met L chapel. But do folks to Khartoum members in Sinoe law and manage to set up a mid and somewhere up in the mountains. Olivia says the Kartal flew him up there in this little Cessna. So my husband standing there and he's looking over the mountain top. He said it was like the most magnificent like veal, you could possibly imagine. And he's just standing there waiting for him. And here comes chapel walking up the stairs with his baseball cap on. And you know, he just comes in like, hi, I'm chapel goes. I'm Joaquin Guzman. Loretta he's like, well, what do you want junior tells troppo he's trying to find his brother on the way, there junior had learned that he and his brother we're getting scammed by their local who hadn't actually been paying the cartel. He just been pocketing the twins money, so junior decides to come clean with troppo. He tells them look wheel you money a lot of money almost ten million. But it's not our fault junior thinks he has a way to prove it. He's like, you know, I brought my ledgers in. I would like to show you my books. We have written down every payment that we've ever made so Chapo 'cause over to his worker, and he's. Like go. Get my bucks a Burling Joplin union off Cape really detailed business record. They even have a similar I counting style. Everton's action gets written down in these ledgers troppo sees all this and decides junior's telling the truth, so he makes a deal if the twins can get him the money, they owe he'll make sure Peter is released and they can deal directly with L chapel. No more middleman, which is exactly what they do when our husbands started working topple it. I mean, we just seen from it was like night and day. I mean, he would just see these Vange is coming to the house in union. Exactly what they were. Doing different associates started coming around. They were driving up with. They look like, yeah. We start this whole cards. How world that we were not used to now? Peter and junior are literally moving tons of drugs. They started using these tunnels, and we're talking trains or talking tractor trailers they've expanded across the United States now and into Canada beyond Chicago in the mid west to New York Philly in Vancouver in that Lanta in LA and so in all over the east coast. So it was just I mean there was so much going on. It was like nonstop in grand jury testimony Peter junior explain that troppo and his partner L miles Imbaba responsible for getting the drugs across the border into the United States from there. The twins would take over with distribution. They move huge allowed up to three hundred dollars coke at a time. They also started to learn about those chapels although smuggling methods like how up was using seven forty seven planes to get massive blow to coke up from Columbia. According to their testimony troppo had the seats taken out of planes and sent them down stocked with clothing that was supposed to be humanitarian aid than on the return trip. They'd fill the plane with upwards of thirteen tons of cocaine the planes land, right at the Mexico City international airport chop guys would pick up the drugs. Remember, the twins are still wanted in the US troppo is keeping an eye on them. But even he can't protect them as years went by. And as we went through everything I seen that most of the happy times were always overshadowed by the bad. So I got immune to it. But things started to return on Mia and Peter's wedding day. She says a Mexican customs agent figured out the twins were fugitives and showed up to shake them down. They were ready to pay until troppo got wind of what was happening. Don't pay them. Shut. Nothing's going to happen to you. Because I know when the US is coming. I get the word. Nothing's going to happen to you. You're my people now, nobody's gonna grab you. But quite turn out that way. A year later, they returned to Puerto Vallarta to meet some businessmen from China who want to supply the cartel with the chemicals to make meth what they say happened next is impossible for us to fact, check. But here's what she told us. So we're at the beach house, and of course, you know, anyone that comes from another country from from the stays the first thing they wanna do is hit up the strip club. So. And I were like we don't like were inseparable. Our husbands are going anywhere without us. So we're like we're going to alluvia notices a guy across the club is staring them. And let's junior. No. He's like, what do you mean? Like, of course, he's staring at you like girls in Mexico don't come to the strip club, and we're laughing and then all of a sudden time went by. And he's still see him staring. And I'm like me something is going on. Like, this guy is like there's something not right here. She says the creepy guy at the club turned out to be the same customs agent who tried to extort them on Mia in Peter's wedding day. And all of a sudden he gets up he walks past us and then five minutes later, you have like a group of our men dressed in black with ski mass on with machine guns. And they just ran up on us. And they had a, you know, AK47.'s point to our heads. We were on the floor all of them, then get dragged out of the club and thrown into Suburbans. The gunman put a Levy in the front seat next to. The driver. So I go in. I like had my next hell phone. I grabbed my next I'm holding down. And I am hoping that my brother-in-law can hear me that's back at the house. She has one of those cell phones that works like a walkie talkie. And she manages the call her brother-in-law without anyone noticing, and I'm screaming like what do you want? Like, tell us what you want like we'll pay you like what do you want? They get taken to some location nearby where they're tied together with their hands behind their backs. The phone rings the agent is like Signore Signore Signore, and he hangs up the phone, and he was I who the fuck that you contact who did you contact? He was distraught. He looked like he was scared. And I didn't know what he was going to do if he was going to like shoot me in the head like I had no idea what was going to happen. That call Livy made in the car her brother-in-law back at the house had heard it and call Chabot the kidnappers shook they released the women right away. And they head back to their beach house. I'm trying to get my son's things. I'm trying to get whatever we can get an all of a sudden here comes like this, you know, convoy of cars pickup trucks men like machine guns. And I'm like, oh my God. We're not gonna make it out of here. And then one of you know, I don't know if it was junior, Peter they look thirty dental twins. They jump out they actually had federal agents there, and they actually escorted us back to the hardback to safety Mexican federal Lexikon federal agents, which was like shocking. Fame of the conducting Mehan only be early being while Hannah. And they both find out they're pregnant, and they decide to have to do something. We just wanted out of the life. But our husbands did say, you know, what like we can't just stop. We can't just turn the faucet off. Like this were like the running water like we make these people money. You can't just say I'm gonna retire for longtime Livia in NIA in their husbands thought the only way out of the drug trade was to get killed or go to prison, and it seemed like getting killed was the more likely scenario around this time, a chapel goes to war with partners, the betraying labor rollers and the twins are forced to pick a side. Instead, they come up with another option to break away from the cartel one. That's even crazier than getting involved in a war between traffickers, they reach out to the DA with a message. We can give you L Chapo. Livia and mea say the DA is totally unprepared. At the first meeting. The feds are asking about street dealers, and stash houses in Chicago low level stuff. Peter has to break it down for them. He gets a pen in an OPEC had and draws an organizational chart of the cartel has troppo and his partner L mile at the top draws a straight line from their names himself and junior only then does the DA understand what they have. And they still aren't prepared. They went to radio shack, and they bought lake, you know, those twelve ninety nine recorders, and they were just recording every conversation that they can get on the twins cooperated for months, but they also kept smuggling drugs. They were secretly recording phone calls and still going to the mountains to meet with troppo on one trip junior asked Trump was satellite phone to call and check on his wife. So that they could pass that number along to the DA. The hold time. Arthur refi thinking the. Kartal will find out when they were recording. And they're societas where there some of the Mexican associates, and they had their little earbud sticking out of the ace. And I'm just you know, we're sitting there, and I'm like, oh my goodness. If they see that you're, but you know, what could happen to us. And just these little little things I one after another that, you know, they couldn't find they could've found out anytime. Finally, they get the one call they really need sitting there. We were having dinner. We had a lot of people over and all of a sudden troppo 'cause the brothers grabbed the phone a recorder and head upstairs me, and I look at each other. We know exactly what's happening. They're upstairs in the recording. Start haggling over the price per kilo of heroin as old job. If he can no five Bessis off the price of accu- that's five thousand dollars. The broder's are buying twenty kills in this deal making done even one million dollars. Troppled tells them that prices fi. Fine. Peter gets the whole conversation on tape. Once they got that recording. We knew like that was the end the twins end up recording dozens of conversations with various ceelo cartel members. The handover info to the DA on dozens of large drug shipments in the locations of important stash houses, I mean, everything just started falling like a domino effect one after the other load after low shipment after shipment in one bust the feds grabbed nearly five million in cash from a stash house outside Chicago days before that they seized six hundred kilos of coke during a raid in LA the cartilage also starting to catch on. They know someone is rutting and they are conditions. A few weeks later the twins. Get a call from the DA saying they have two hours to get to the airport, but they can't bring a Livia or mea or their kids. Mia's baby is barely a week old Olivia's seven weeks, and the DA has no plan to get them out of Mexico here. I am running through my house. Like we have. Get the fuck outta here. Like, we have to make a run for the border getting whatever we need because we know that we're going to be hunted. We know that there's no turning back. They say they drive all night to the border and cross over into Laredo, Texas. They're allowed to enter the have not been charged with any crimes that they did have to forfeit millions of dollars. The Flora's would have received life sentences had they not come to federal authorities in two thousand eight and offered to cooperate in the pantheon of drug prosecutions in the history of the northern district of Illinois. This case stands at the highest level the brothers and now thirty three years old were sentenced to fourteen years in prison east last week in Chicago, Peter junior already in federal jail. And that's where they remained in special custody designed to keep cooperating witnesses alive, so they can testify their scheduled to be released in twenty twenty one for a long time, the US government just kind of sat on all the information. The twins it collected and delivered via figured all. All the risks that their husbands had taken for actually for nothing. The chapel really was untouchable when the twins appear in court to testify those states would played and that's expected to be this week every truck trafficker looks up to chapel like he's like he's their God. So when you have now chapel sitting in the US courtroom, I know that puts a lot of fear and a lot of people that are in this business at are continuing to break the law and continuing to bring drugs into the US. So I think that you know, this is really goodness out that message that nobody's untouchable. On the very first day of jury selection when chop emerged from the holding area outside the courtroom. It was sort of jarring was the first time. I'd seen him not in his prison issue uniform. He was wearing a designer suit with a really wide collared shirt, which he had unbuttoned to the middle of his chest to me, it's sort of chop. Look like Tony Montana from Scarface when we came back from a break in the proceedings I noticed he had buttoned up to the top. Like, maybe his lawyer had said something about it. That's few. But what was his still the little boy from tuna? It's pretty incredible. He's in New York in this courtroom at all south, orange, Chicago, actually think should be on trial there because they believe his drugs fueled street gangs that are responsible for a lot of the cities gun violence and drug addiction. But the thing is you can draw a straight line from all chappelle or anyone else to the more the right in Chico off to the those of their or any other city. There is noise. Threat line to one person. That's not the way works. So you destroy one group in Mexico, and then another one rises to power. How powerful is this new highly Scone headed cartel? It is a very powerful criminal group. Co-ceo very well organized earlier this year Chicago named a new public enemy number one. A guy called L mentio-. He's the head of the Halley score new generation cartilage, which was born a Brian of the law cartel regeneration cartels, April sixth attack was a military style. Ambush that killed fifteen highly. Screw state police choice opposed to be behind all these extreme violence. That's happening right now in Bahana Acapulco and while hotter. Ninety percent of the heroin in America comes from our southern border. Where eventually the Democrats will agree with us. And we'll build the wall to keep the damn drugs out to hear Trump Telent putting up a wall, including the border. It's going to help win the war on drugs. Even though many of the people coming to the US from Mexico and Central America are fleeing gang violence, the US policies and actions helped create under President Trump. The DA is also doubling down on drug policies that have failed to work for decades. And in Mexico. There's a new president. Bridled violence and corruption Mexicans have taken a leap of faith for the first time Mexicans of chosen left-wing populist and baseman when Lopez over who promised radically change how Mexico fights that drove war and bull out the military from the from lines of the fight against the cartels. He's only been in office for a few weeks. But the violence is only getting worse right now. It's nearing the highest. It's been since the war on drugs began, and he already seems to be backing away from that plan. Well, seems to me that we will have to wait and see what he can bring to the table. Disorder is usually everything comes together gets tied up, but not this one because the drug were isn't one long story with a single ending its millions of stories that overlap intersect and even contradict each other and is linked with so many other issues. Eruption Beilin's economics migration, United which is maybe part of what makes troppo such an attractive symbol. He's one man who prosecutors can point to in save their see that guy is the drug trade. He's tidy narrative device. It seems certain to me that they'll chapel would be found guilty and spend the rest of his life in an American. What remains to be seen is what exactly the trial itself will ultimately come to stand for when he ever the drug war will end this trial isn't just about determining guilt or innocence and meting out punishment. It's. Ticketless laying out of events. And if it's done, right? It could also be something more public reckoning. We did the Kate this production to the memory of this whose work continues to inspire us. This podcast was reported by Miguel on how Vaga Kate Osborne and get him. Him. Kate Osborn has our senior producer any is our managing editor at one hundred zero is our producer Miguel. Fernandes floors is associate for this Ryan McCarthy is the executive editor sound design and mixing by Steve bone with engineering help from Jeremy given Dylan Vicarage and Mitch backing or even composed by Leonardo Hiram and Huckabee Lieberman and produced by Audi for more music by the Mexican institute of south fact, checking by Alex Lovin, these punish of the nation of these gas was produced by adult the media with production. Help them sidebar it my NFL yellow and analysts. Emily. Everything from Rick Sandra, eighty logistical support from loud about thing sounded sign in mustering by Martin Cruz Partyka and expect you for this by Martina, custom art by Leslie Shah, and Kevin Powell especial. Thanks to Maryland Pittman, Craig Harris, Don for hey. Miguel Pereira, our favorite nocco, intellectual foiling, NCO yon, Albert Hutson and the committee to protect journalists shrieks gone Deraza and not Raymond in here. Vice mini thanks to Mark the Bruni Cassie. Geraldo, Bernardo loyal Howdy, garra Berkovitz, Andrew Wilcox. Sam Bockova n- Christina Dylan, silver, Fien, Nicole, Huber, Ramey, gaily, and Nick whose last name. Hey, thanks to all the people who spoke with us in Mexico in sina Loa office next co city and cross the country and thanks to louder Waldenburg, cut obvious and the staff advice Mexico for more on I'll chapel in the drug war, including coverage of his trial. Visit vice news dot com. I'm Miguel hill Vega, and I'm Keegan Hamilton. Thanks for listening. But. Paid. Top of the list. Phone day. Act on that.
EP 2: The Legend
"So where we're going to tune into the Sierra and the in the golden triangle, how dangerous is it. Well, it's it's going to be you. You will not see that kind of danger in which you life will be natural senior. But it is dangerous because they might block the access a rumor this time that tried to two and I was stopped by maybe twenty gunmen and asked me, what are you doing here? And I said, you know, my journalists we heard there is a war going on here and people are getting killed. And he told me they basically told me, you know, just go back to where you come from. Because this tenures for you to resolve the shootings all over. So we don't want you to get hurt. So just go back. I feel like our lives are quite quite literally in your hands. There's like a high level of trust between us, and you, and we have a lot of faith that this is gonna be okay. Because you say so I'm gonna be your own person as use Christ trust. I can worship the the church of Neagle on home. You say that all the journalists? Now, you're first. You're on. Personal jesus. It'd be so to the delay. It's June sixteenth. And we've just left the city of Queen gone. We are going to love to now by what did what do you spotted in the state of sin, and you know, it's in the middle of this mountains and this region known as the golden triangle ceriga known for growing marijuana impulse and Laguna it's like in the middle of these mountains, and that's where L chapel was bored. We've been in the car for about two hours in we turn off the highway onto the Sturt road. By the way, we have left the pavement behind and are now on what did they very muddy dirt road that has basically small ponds water at some points. That looks like a leg. You're fending for lake. Rental just from a small town. That's in the middle of where I was wrong. It's not like this. This is a real pig. We're going to tuna for a bunch of reasons not only is it L Trump was hometown. But these mountains are considered the birthplace of the Mexican drug trade almost all of the top leaders of the scene a little cartel came from here. It's not like there are hotels so Miguel on how is setting us up to see with a guy who's related to Trump. I mean, let do nicest mall town blessed and fifty families living here at it safer floss to stay with people related to shop. Also this guy to help us with access to the family. The roads are rough. There's very limited cell phone service or internet, the military patrol some areas, but for the most part it's under the control of cartel factions. The idea behind us going to tuna is with that's like on the ground. Tell us about the first time it came to Latina was afraid I was thinking out. I'm not sure if I'm coming back. So I was was willing to ride the wheel. Remm serious gives you know, you hear so many stories about these people from the mountains that you're you know, what you don't know what to. What what's going to be the outcome? You don't know for sure if you're not make it back. Up into the forbidding majesty of the great Madria range. Go man this area has been pretty infamous and seen as being lawless since long before El Chapo was born take a look down that means all our funerals if you're into classic Hollywood movies. It's that police were Humphrey Bogart got into trouble with prospecting for goals in the treasure of the Sierra Madre. Why guys are Yoder? We are all this. No, the Mon police. Police wear your badges Badghis Wayne got nobody's. I don't have to the drug trade here dates back to the late eighteen hundreds and surprise, the US plead a big part in how it came to be American companies back then who've relying on immigrants from China to build railroads and working minds. But in eighteen eighty two congress passed the Chinese exclusion act, which banned Chinese labourers from the US many of those workers ended up in northern Mexico doing the same jobs and some brought opium poppies with them for personal use. And then the people of this region. Learn how to refine but begun into heroin, which they start so keep in mind up until the nineteen twenties heroin was legal in the US and Mexico and now roughly a hundred years later, most of the heroin in the US comes from Mexico and the scene allure cartel dominates that market. Well, let's Sierra is a lot more advanced today like more. Have electoral team four wheel drive cars, but things like the roads are much better than they were like one hundred years ago because the government doesn't really seems to about this region. And it's actually the drug lords who tried to take girl things since the ones leaving here. Which is why these guys are so respected and people like them. I'm gonna off the guys and roll roll down the windows. Please just you know. So people are going to be washing us. They can see inside how many people we are. And there is a woman here also. We clubs. I am. We are about bus through hometown. With this guy, another very famous, you know, troch Lord and Birtles firm over chapels. Florida. Marito? We're going around a little bend in the road. And suddenly, it's completely blocked. Can you put down? Rolling up their four guys. They're wearing tactical vests and holding AK47.'s, basically, they're checking out or we are, okay. Last time. I was still here. This is like a checkpoint into the nonsense. Yeah. This this. Well, obviously, they're not be Gillette. Is there like they belong to a plan for sure it's all shopping all day, you stop that man. The asking for your were you doing here, and they're going to do the same with us. And I just put on my press badge. Just staying cakes. Nuts. Gonna tell us, you know, if we can go, and we cannot go. They tell us not to keep toeing. They're funny. We will go by. When it does. The gun. Almost. Does your. How do you think that could was maybe he was like seventy years old? He was young really sweet. Well, he's not. Is the Coronado Jeeva around his neck said not be smile since we go horn for what they call forty seven. A few minutes after we pass through the checkpoint. We know we're getting close to troves hometown. Oh my God. That guy look chop. Shop was roller. Are you saying I'm serious? He looked exactly like that. So chapels, brother. You so chapels Bravo, give me your line Kelly. He he had on the the black baseball cap. He had a thick black moustache that was like the spitting image of troppled. Drove just your bias in green for pickup truck. Trump who has a really big family after he got extradited his brothers and sons fought over who would lead his faction of the ceelo cartel. The brothers ended up winning. And now they controlled this part of the mountains. The guy we passed. This name me can use mind. But the big bows in this era is a different brother a, dude. Name over Leon who everybody calls a one. They all grew up in tuna. You see that house? Yeah. Yeah. That's left to naturally. Oh, that's that's that's all that tuna and that red house the orange house. It's it's Chapas modem choppers. Hometowns it's a really dramatic valley. These green hillsides covering pine oak trees with tuna is tiny. It's really more of a village. They're only a dozen or so houses, but the one that belongs to his mother is definitely the nicest. Shuffle church is on field for here. Nice. It's you'll colored paint job fresh white pain. So just very nice building just across the street from his mama's when we get closer. We notice all these brand new pickup trucks in front of her house. There are a lot of people coming going, and they're carrying guns or the recently said about do use go again that was fighting with those chapel broke into her house and still Carson threatened people. So now, they have more guys protecting her house that we're seeing at is right down the road. Maybe fifty yards away. The guy who lives here is named Chamo. Yes, chairman is the son of chapels coastal, but he goes L chapel. So we are here guys. Let's just to get up the car without and just you know, the person gets four to hold them. Hoping. We leave our gear in the car and walk a few steps down the road to chambers place. It's a single story house. He built himself out of Dobie bricks yet that house is beautiful because of the brakes and because it's on these hillside, you can see everything like the mountains. And this guy there's livestock out in the yard in inside chimneys is standing over wood fired stove their son is there may be seven or eight years old wearing a Mickey Mouse tee-shirt, it's Saturday are planned for the next day is to interview Trump does mother after church other journalists have been able to catch her right after the service ends I've said the through the four hour ceremony many times. But in this case, I ask a chair, my if he would range interview for us. And we can skip Massimo. Yes. I public. About half an hour after we arrive Cheema goes up to chop. Mom's house when he comes back. He tells us to wait on the patio outside the church. A few minutes later, we see your gate open. Then a truck rolls down the hill and comes to a stop in front of the church. Trump was mother gets out. Her name is conceal Loretta. She's got grey hair and opponent HALE in wire frame glasses. She's close to ninety and needs to help walking her granddaughter. Trump was niece looks to be in her late twenties is also with her and it's clear right away. The conceal isn't thrilled assess well just in like journalists cheated TB interview a while back and in life how she was portrayed. This study. Okay. Those solemness by we had all sorts of questions, but we simply just showed up at her doorstep, and she didn't want to say too much. So we asked her about her son when he was a boy come White House way for the whole in. The bullet cheek what she's saying he's always been a really hard worker. There's this whole mythology around troppo early years in the mountains. Part of the origin story is that his family was dirt poor and that his first job was selling oranges by the side of the road Santa KKK in office. And then that s. He found. You'll know Sienna Wendy. She says, yeah, he saw oranges embed she made. Apparently, he also farmed fruits and vegetables and got a sore in a nearby town to sell him snacks and candy on credit. Then he sold that stuff. Too. Started a little business for himself. Some money who just say to me, he said good, son. Shyam is very loved here. And people are all him troppo being in prison. It's clearly hard for her. She tears up talking about how the family isn't allowed to visit him. Give thing. Thing. You're saying the government to advantage of m. Did whatever they pleased with him. But this was unfair. Caster nothing, but a man whatever Marica with and, but you also believe that God it's on his side. And that the best lawyer he could ever have was Scott. Onto. There is shame on sitting with us. During interview assisted things have gotten worse since Trump has been gone. Memento k. Ever. Since of Chapa was put in prison. Everything has had wars here in that tuna violent crime. But also more poverty in Hong. Why do we have water he says because both chapels every time I said, I think of him. Chairman others in his room filled. Thoroughly forgotten by the government, and they rely on campaigns like L chapel to provide basic services like clean drinking water. Before we left villa tuna told choppers lawyer in the US that we wanted to speak to chop was younger sister Bernarda, he said, he'd let her know. But couldn't promise us anything. Tape. Narda is one of the only people who've been allowed to visit chop in federal jail. New York other than his lawyers, and she agreed to talk to us. I think we'd get that interview. Journals? So we were very like Bernardo was able to see ciampa once last year. But then the US revoked her visa and she hasn't been allowed back into the country since. Been on. Another unofficial for income anymore because of her association because she was related to. Nick on the woman. She kept coming back to the conditions. Her brother is being kept in that he's in solitary confinement and can't see anyone in the family except his seven year old twins. He's not allowed outside. And she says the air in the jail aggravates asthma is is there a story from his childhood that you remember that sort of sums up the type of person that he is who who he who he really is they met whether they when they were younger of chapel used to get up early on Sundays and going people family owned his fake jewelry. Key goal would term his skin green. But he looked so nice and so happy so he was really fun to be around. About that. But the thing is she says, even if you stay out late h-, you'd always be ready early to work. Bernarda is a few years younger than shop and in the mid seventies. When Trump was around seventeen or eighteen Mexico with the help of the United States started cracking down hard on the drug trade in the Sierra, the US had just launched the modern war on drugs. The DA was still new agency the Americans pressured Mexico to stop drugs coming from the golden triangle and towns likely tuna Mexican military winning and started burning marijuana fields. Nabbing poppy farmers. It was called operation. Condor. Dollars. She says soldiers knock down doors rated homes beat up people that they detain people in Medan disappear that they beat people to death. She says people were just terrified to see soldiers show off this little millage, the nice were black. And there was no light heard the barking dogs Dr. And we knew it was them the soldiers. Donna million cheeky, the weren't round storm in houses think care about families or children or anals. When we lived on human rights abuses, by the military during this time have been extensively documented and Bernarda says the L troppo was one of the victims. She says he was bidding informed. His mother you station in. There was nothing. They could do about it. We couldn't verify what Bernardus said, but what she described squares with the historical record. It was right around this time the chop got into the drug train growing marijuana poppies because back then he was very young. He was just getting started the big traffickers the time from sin law, the military operation really slow down the ended up just moving into other parts of Mexico and Trump who followed him. We talked to Bernard for a long time at one point started to rain, really hard. You can hear it on the sheet metal roof when the rain starts to let up I ask her about how the government treats the people who tune in now when the Goldman comes. Now, they usually to swell. When I push a little bit further in mentioned reports of military operations in the area right around here. She says that used to happen, but it was a long time ago. The famous efforts that we heard be happening in the places. She says, but not here. Why do you think they they leave you alone? While nothing luck ages. They know who lives here now, obviously, she's L troppo sister. And this is her personal take on life in the Sierra near the end of our talk. She says the media always portrays this place violent dangerous, but according to her it's not like that at all. But the thing is right is we're talking I can literally see a man go by on an ATV carrying lit. Looks like a portable grenade. Launcher just a few minutes before I'd seen a truck full of men all dressed in black and carrying AK47.'s. It's pretty clear their arms men all over the place. How many armed people? Do you think are up there fifty one hundred hundred or nine hundred and you know, heavy shit. There's also like an armed guy patrolling just like walking along the patio up there during the firm eter at troppo his mom's house. It turns out. It's the birthday of troppo brother one. Oh, the guy who now controls the Loa cartel here in the mountains and from the looks of it. They're throwing him a big party up at chocolates mom's house. That's the recent. There is so much action town, there's definitely extra security around or thanking. As. We're not about of the party. You guys really wanting to go to that party. I mean, it would have been a bad idea for various reasons. But yeah, obviously, we really wanted to go. Well, the happen. Sorry. So instead we thank them for their time. And as they're leaving Bernarda offers rather insists on sending food from the party down to us. Actually, we should go back through the house. Facets? We end up back at chambers. House talking about American us Jim is a big fan of Silvester Stallone. Can hear band playing nor Tena music we go outside till listen chop. Moms compound is all walled off. So we can't see inside. But people are hollering and having a good time outside the gate and on the roof. They're a bunch of armed guards with AK47.'s. We catch a glimpse of the band is. They take cigarette breaks between songs can make out. They're all wearing matching red suits with black cowboy. I had read enough about the tuna to have I felt like a pretty decent handle on what to expect. I thought that Trump was mother's house is going to be a little bit bigger. It's it's a the best house in town by far. But it's not like a mansion by stretch. And I knew that they were going to be armed people around. Like, I've been told that that choppers mother's house had. Mass men fall through fasten weapons outside. But nothing could have prepared me for the number of men with assault rifles and bazookas and weapons. It's insane. I know how we ended up. Did not planet. I did not know that wanna was going to celebrate his completeness. On this day. The party goes all night Leighton's the next morning. Is still going. I thought it was over. It's seven thirty in the morning right now, the party is that started around probably eight or nine o'clock last night is still going musicians. They're on their on their break. Stroll look tired. When we wake up we can hear machine guns fire. It sounds celebratory. Semiautomatic fire automatic. That's automats. Shingo? We spend the morning hanging out in chambers. House. His family is getting ready for church. Let's go with them for about an hour and then head out. Out. A lot is made of Trump was humble beginnings. It's a classic rags to riches story people talk about how after he made it big. He took care of his town in ways that the Mexican government never did. And it turns out there's some truth to that drive out of town on one of the few paved roads in this area, which we were told was also paid for by travel. But we also saw heavily armed men everywhere. Troppo and the people who were first cartel. They control the area and they call the shots. How did El Chapo go from the boy sold fringes on the side of the road to the world's must be drug kingpin. That's next time. Was it the cardinal that put him on the map so to speak that made his name known to everyone in the DA, everyone in Mexico? It was a major event it was like when the Beatles with the television show that that's kind of like it was with with Chaplin. It was chapels welcome to the world of affair. You can follow this series on Spotify. Also, there's another version of this podcast. It's all in Spanish that show is called El Chapo L Hefei available for free exclusively on Spotify.
#57 Why do I create these images? For who?
"Photography, daily today we speak to what it feels like an old friend landscape photographer and Photography Workshop Tutor Nick. Page. Based in the states and we ask a series of questions really including lightly touching on composite. What's really a picture and what's not and how good is it got post processing general's is getting better and better and better and better to where you don't really know what's real anymore also. Also just how those turning dime. From this thing, we love going to thrive in appeared where a pathogen we can't see has dictated which businesses will be left to practice. The most important thing that any person in the photography community as a business owner can do right now is to have multiple revenue income streams, and then a question I think many photographers ask, why am I making these pictures? Pictures were they actually fall? I create all of these wonderful images. Then would you know why? Why do I create all these and there's an interesting take on game today? Yes. Kits something. We haven't made on during these shorter snapshot editions or indeed the longer ones or the weekend, not to any great extent at any rate, the word I've received by the way. Thank you for the incredible and. And feedback you send both in long form and short form feedback or questions to studio photography. Daily dot show suggests you enjoy content that doesn't talk solely about F stops and general tech though we do from time to time like to address in a magpie when it comes to gear, today is one of those moments though knicks choice of that photographic thing, he couldn't live without may surprise you. Right composing. My Institute in particular is full of a set of online courses. At the moment from a photographer who fills that I may be missing a trick of I. Don't consider can positing as the single most important facet of my photography business moving forward. I like to see myself as a storyteller, the storyteller of the truth, but clearly, the business or at least the new business isn't in the truth. It's in the narrative. You create to be the new truth in my business, my Gina. There was a a feat of pictures for a while though like the feature beasts about to talk of it's a feed that. That does seem to have become extinct that showed brides and grooms running screaming acting under direction out of the composition diving for cover from a dinosaur in Chase I. looked at these doing the rounds on social media initially with a sense of amusement though I felt they damage the credibility of my genre being considered a reliable honest and serious source of documentation. But, I also consider that perhaps I was being too serious that I needed to lighten up little because weddings while they're a representation of character subjectivity, they like the couples who ha- Alpacas is a ring bearer dogs and birds of prey. So yesterday, donning that clearly had to be some kind of if a dinosaurs giving chase to couples pages, otherwise, it just wouldn't happen for me, and again I underline for me. This kind of composites seemed to cheapen photography was like a kind of speak quick seaside resort approach to creativity I. Mean, we just emerged from purple skies and dropped in some flair to to be visually assaulted with prehistoric creatures, breaking out the undergrowth and otherwise attractive tree-lined backdrop. And brief. I'm taking stock. If you'll excuse the pun because there are many composites that I think, require a mention whose work in advertising and creation of. A real game changer, the likes of Eric, Almaz, Josh Rossi, and another Eric actually. Eric Johanson the Swedish. And photographer whose work dot Com pour over for ages. He's surreal series is worth a visit. Just make sure you have a few hours on your hands. The semi desolated pick around the corner from two thousand seventeen has my eyes piercing the screen to find any clues whatsoever on how he could have created this scene. Many of Eric speeches, well, their stories with a plot that are as cleverly written as they are computer manipulated. I'm awaiting a yes. Some each of these names because I think he lied to hear their stories. Nick page is a landscape photographer and photography tutor of featured a few of our chance of late into their want to touch on compulsively and tech in his genre where DC. DC landscape as a genre headed I. Know Amongst social for talk. Everybody's talking about eight K. cameras right now, one in particular and pulling stills off the men video mode getting. You know still shoot as a little bit nervous about that sort of thing. There's a kind of a tech fear as much as tech excitement is there. Is there a similar feeling in landscape work I? Think? For landscape photography, post processing gets better and more advanced. Every year it used to be that you know dropping in a fake sky was like the Holy Grail, you know four years ago like the photographers they knew how to drop a fake sky and blended in seamlessly. Those were the people that were seen as not only a threat to the to landscape photography to the integrity of landscape photography. But they were also seen as like you know the there were also some of the most popular ones and I think that people are the post processing in general is just getting better and better and better and better to where you don't really know what's real anymore. You look at a landscape photo and you're like, that's really awesome I. Don't know if it exists, but it's really awesome and I think that line is it's as divisive as it's ever been as far as like people can positing and stretching mountains to being double the height that they actually were in real life. I think that that's kind of the. It's not only where landscape photography is going, but it's also where the argument is going to be continuing because everybody has their different ideas on what is acceptable and what is art, and what is photography in which which is which. Is kind of a line in the sand that everybody has to draw for themselves like I will do this, but I won't do that, and I think post processing is really where the things are changing the most right now with landscape photography more. So than the technology, I always worry a little bit when I got to ask questions because some photographers absolutely love kit. Questions. So. We'll. Start with them whether the landscape photographer I asked and I said, what's the most important kit you can run around with you and she said Oh without a doubt wouldn't even think twice tripod. It's hard to argue with that because Tripod, just it's it opens up. So many different things. You know not only one of the things that I like so much about a tripod, not so much because of the extra sharpness and stability or lengthening my exposure, a lot of times. It's just the fact that slows you down enough to where you actually think about composition a lot of times. When you have your camera up to your eye, you are less. Your less critical about things that are. Negatively impacting your composition. But if you are set up on a tribe on, you're looking at the rear LCD screens. For some reason, it's just much easier to like you know, move your eye around the outside edge of the frame and being like. Okay. There's nothing intrude into frame or why is this limb coming in? That's distracting I. Think all just tweak my composition. It's much easier to be hypercritical of composition went on a tripod looking at the rear LCD screen. When you have your eye up to viewfinder? You're you're, I, just naturally wants to move past those distractions rather than focus on them. I? Feel like I think she said that it doubled as a possible Best Dick, should she? She kept from. Yeah Are you a travel light merchant or is there was much kit in the in the pickup as as nick page can possibly fool into one truck? I don't travel very light I. I like to think of myself as being fairly sensible, but I tried to I tried to take what I need to be comfortable. So if we're talking camera gear, you know. I try to get away with as little as possible, but I still have the full kit and. Having to record video when I go out means that I have to tripods and I have to camera bodies and I have to have a lens for my. Video Camera, as well as my trinity of Lenses for my stills. Camera? But in the truck I, try my whole concept for my over landing vehicle will call it is is that I want to be able to set camp sleep and then not have a ton of tear down in the morning when I have to get up for a sunrise because there's nothing worse than having to like put stuff. In your little campsite for an hour before you're ready to leave. So I have like this pop up roof tent, a James Abroad Rift, and on top of my pick-up to where I can. I. Leave all my betting up there, and I can set up camp in about thirty seconds and I can tear down camp and about a minute and a half. So. Yeah. It's. It's really handy as a landscape photographer. To be able to just like. You know sleep in the general area that you're gonNA shoot in the morning and have very little tear down in the morning and be ready to go and hit the road. I'm almost going to suggest that roof books attend his more important than the TROPPO, but son of isn't it? Yeah. It's incredibly nice and I've got you know now a comes with like three inches of memory foam for your mattress up there. But I added another two inches. So I've got like a five inch memory foam mattress incredibly comfortable, and I can just leave all my pillows and blankets up there and just closed down. I'm I'm good to go to. A. Now, you've got your podcast, the landscape photography podcast. How's how's that going oh? You know one episode a month. That's acceptable. Right. and. Can I get him back to the whole feeling like a broken record thing? It's. It's really hand. You know when you have guests on, it makes it way easier because it's more about them than it is about you but a lot of times. I record a lot, a solo episodes in it. It's challenging to feel like I'm not just repeating myself so. Production has slowed mostly just because I'm. Too Critical on myself, I think. That's pretty much how it's gone gone. Like the settle episodes I, really want you in there. So episodes the same way that I do in the in the youtube videos I. Think I. appreciate it, I. Just, I've got that hypercritical major. It can be very challenging like I know I know people enjoy it, but it's really hard to produce those when you don't enjoy. It, it's hard to make the person that doesn't like. Like listening to them. Selves ramble. And I feel like that's exactly what I do. I just get on and I ramble about something and there you go. There's your podcast. Let us well. The to another I'm going to say, it doesn't sound like a ramble to me. I, promise you that Nick, just just finally, I couldn't nick the generalist. Is Again, if you needed to, I mean if I said, look, here's a wedding. Awesome. Pool tracers news I'm not GonNa say sport because you're GonNa Jumper that view have the chance. Would you would you? Would you go back and do some I would do some in moderation. If anything. You know this whole Covid, nineteen time that we're going through has taught me anything that. Perhaps I need to analyse business model a little bit. You know if things got tough. Oh, you could be seeing nick page weddings and no time. But yeah. The longer I go without doing those kinds of things. The more I kind of miss them. You know I, love. I love lighting. Portraits. Off Camera Flash, dramatic lighting, kind of person I. I love that kind of interesting Joel. Grimes. rhymes, kind of thing. Yeah. So I do miss some of that. But a lot of what I don't miss is the human interaction. I. Wish I could just have somebody be the poser for me like go in impose them, and then I'll just light it and photograph them. Please please those pizza nick, he doesn't want to. Exactly, and whatever you do don't make eye contact. HAVE ANY ARAB obviously people have been asking you advice they do they do in the Youtube Channel have have for talks been asking you advice during this period I, she nick wh. WHAT DIRECTION DO I? Do I take won't shoot on businesses falling upon what do I do Nick Batum? You know I haven't had tons of other business owners asked me that stuff, but I know that One of the things that I've just been trying to do is really analyze. Analyze the most important thing that any person in the photography community as a business owner can do right now is to have multiple revenue income streams and that's when. I know that there's a lot of other workshop instructors out there that they might not come out of this. This whole cove nineteen thing. Okay. Because their their income has just been completely annihilated and there's not really an end in sight just yet and it's already been quite a while so. I think for those business owners. Multiple income revenue streams is the most important thing you have to be diverse in in. where the money comes from I'm just so lucky to have those. Tutorials sales and a little bit of Youtube, and you know just a little bit of small things that have got me through this time without those. I would have been one of those people. So I think that for those that are going to make it out of this time. Okay. It's definitely a great time to do a little reflection on the business model and see if you can diversify a little bit. It'd be a good time to analyze some of that and even for me like we started talking. Talking about how prints are a smaller portion of things. But for me, I would really like to incorporate more of the the prince sales and and maybe we produce a book. Those kind of things 'cause one of the things that greatly lacking in my own joy and satisfaction of photography generals. The fact that I create all of these wonderful images. Then what you know, why? Why do I create all these and I really want to find a good use or my portfolio and you know so I've got. Ideas for some books ideas for calendars. I definitely want to start incorporating more prints into what I do, which means I need to set up the back end for all those prints fulfillment. So. Those are some of the things that I'm I'm thinking of personally, my thanks to nick page for his contribution today coming up over the next couple of days, Haley? Sadler. Tomorrow talks about how personally affected. You can be making stories with and bounce people. Level of involvement and investment that you get with someone's life when you're you're spending so much time with them. Thursday. Intra her the blind photographer for him. There's been much feedback about from last Thursday's edition while he's back for part two and talks about. What going out, it was really one box of war applying passion shift in. So that's today. Your emails are so important for the Friday editions. In the main way, we go on a photo together with the Malbak back. So keep sending in about anything you hear see or do, and indeed thoughts about whether guests have been saying. Music in the show was from. Dot I O. and I look forward to photographing with you hearing from you and talking with you tomorrow. Photography daily is a loading zone production.
EP 7: The Fallout
"Can we get a little context where we are? This is the most famous narcos cemetery. There's been documentaries made about this sort of a pilgrimage site for people who are interested in Narko culture. And it's just a hundreds and hundreds of extremely elaborates tombs Muslims that narcos Bill to live after death. Conditioning and size. Yeah. Some they do you'll see. Read the cemetery called hardiness Delk, Maya it's on the outskirts of coupon. Valentine house. This one is legit like a modern condo that would sell for a million dollars. If you put it in Seattle or something some of the tombs don't just have air conditioning. They have little living room type spaces with the family of the deceased can actually hang out on the visit. And you know, what they're getting bigger and bigger and more extravagant. Some of them goes half million dollars. I think you're probably like ten times and what I bring people especially gringos Nelson's guys. I look at the faces to see their expressions. Always look so astonished it's got like, you know, like dome-shaped tops with crosses. They're all very colorful. This is the tomb of L Barbas, his real name was horrible labor. He grew up with a chaplain. He's also from last year they were business partners for years until they turn on each other. It's got three stories with two turrets on the top and glass door an inside you could tell that he was an important guy. 'cause there's this huge floral bouquet, and there's sort of offerings Kansas cut lights. There's a bottle of champagne there's some statues of the Virgin Blue bay and Jesus when he was he was bureau. Great in this place. They plays pets enemies like actual human heads. Yes here. He's owner. Shit. That's really whose heads were there. Some people believe they were his enemies and other people said, it was his people in his enemies broad aheads inflated here when they were no for sure. This is the brother of both chapel. So this one's got angels sort of preying on the front, and then inside there's all sorts of stuff, including a cake with the mini cowboy hat on top there, some bullyings with a cow balloons. There's statuettes of deer and horses mini bottles of coke. There's a stained glass window of him smiling and writing and ATV with shorts on or is that a jet ski. Sort of outdoorsy. Oh, there's water splashing up yet. Was very happy. What do you think is this absurd? Or like, I mean, part of me feels weird to laugh at all. We're talking to these psychologists. He told me the biggest tomb the biggest yield. All these guys who are actively part of the violence in Mexico, and they had these elaborate graves their families can visit while tens of thousands of regular people are being murdered or disappeared. And no one even knows where they're buried. And the violence is not letting up even without troppo in custody in the US. Episode seven the fallout. Twenty seventeen that's been Mexico's most violent. He is since the country started keeping records twenty years ago at least twenty three thousand people have been mud. That's one death every twenty minutes. The increasing rates is being blamed on corruption a weak judiciary. And the extradition of drug Lord, El Chapo to the US Trump capture in early two thousand sixteen and his extradition that next January had a big impact here. There was a power vacuum in the snow lower cartel that quickly turned into a struggle between factions without Guzman at the head of the cartel splintered into smaller gangs that battle each other and the rival new police cogeneration cartel in the first half of that year, close to nine hundred people were murdered in seen alot alone. Remember nine just about is that the carbon count the actual number vets much harder to know in many cases, they find nothing. Nobody's some people. Just disappear. Again. Picture is in the middle of the night. You know, not no one's going to be here. No police agents. No, nothing. So just calm the whole and just about in recent years civilians, usually women have been forming their own groups to search for love winds who've been disappeared the given up waiting for the government to take action. So they go out and try to locate unmarked graves by themselves. So they don't they just got an anonymous tip somebody came and said, hey, there's probably a body behind the supermarket on the street on the outskirts of town. Renan open-field on the outskirts of Korea con with a group of women who call themselves Las Rostro at us the trackers, I met ISA bell like a year ago, right after her son was staking told all her things in may have home into an office for the group. Sign outside that says you have a family member who's disappeared. We can help. ES her living room is full of pickaxes and shovels. She's tacked up photos of her son and other missing men and maps of places where there might be unmarked graves or some was here in seen a law. He was disappeared year ago in that same week nine or the cubs from his unit, including the commander, there were all disappeared. This happened after troppo was captured when factions of the scene alot cartel were fighting for control of Cudi com. Where do you where do you start? How do you even start to look when you have no idea where poice not by app era facility Sola? She saying that you just keep hitting the ground until the trouble just seeing any. She says her instincts mother are what guide her. Just says you start thinking like a criminal like if I kill you. Where would I bury you, and how would they disappear you? They will think wintry. The the remainder body Celtic complete. Leila laurie. Ian, Colorado, Vieira's difference. In the ground and looking for the the smell and the feel of the earth. She's smelling the tip of this metal rod that she's put in the ground. What does it smell like when you find something? It's not the Poesies compatible cases, it's a smell kin compared to anything else. It's not normal. It's really strong that the first time you smell that. You'll never forget. No, hamas. For him Blois, this one mental dimensional model year. There's a little like sort of dip dip in the ground here. And since that's it looks doesn't look like any other any other place that might be the spot where the ground has has sunk in because shallow grave. They look at the ground for little imperfections signs that somebody who's been there before places with the girl has been disturbed or traces of fire since sometimes people will burn the body before variant. This is such a needle in a haystack situation. Like this field is huge. It's maybe five football fields. And we're in one spot that is like three feet by three feet, and maybe with start digging with them they have to really careful not to strip what could be a crime sin. We've come upon too little mound of rocks. And it looks like there's some Mike partially burned material on top. And since a lot of the the bodies are ferns. And you think this might be a gravesite? While we're digging guys walk up the sect. Cetera up on barrels. Personae Scanlon check. I'm looking back and seeing that we have to be careful of people like that. Because you never know who they are. But a lot of time to to be Poon tales, Lou Coutts people who check things out and fort back to the cargo. So we always have to be careful in this case. Those guys we thought were lookouts just gave Isabela tip. They said we were close to the right spot. Family nation, what better own alone this time? Asking her words sport is. And she says displaced so big who knows you keep asking yourself were were were. We don't find anything that day. But somehow Isabel doesn't seem frustrated they won't come care. They were turned to the same spot until the search everything. What what happens on on the day that that you find your son? What do you think what do you envision that day? And what is it like for you? Yuka Sadia whistle meow Mamik work. She saying that they chief find son it'll be like her soul were returned to her body almost like you Bertha game vehicle K. Says like think about your mother dies, and you're an often wife or husband dies, then you're a widow. But if you child is for you. Beulah. Beatles at them. Only who gayness. They know that what they're doing seems crazy that people see them and feel sorry for them. And things searching like this for missing bodies is pointless. Onerous tamas. Look had this son. They wrote to the music while they sing it what they going out. Go mouldy for. Damn. See close. Grace like they say we are looking for our children in one can stop us. He does. You see police car? Police truck is seen a loss state police. Yes versus come. Here was killed that police cars parked. The does that mean it's actually safer. Nothing. You say I mean coming up to you. They will get you. Once you are in that list. You're you're gone. How beautiful this was the co founder of the paper I work for thrilled Olsen. He was good friend. He was killed or may fifteenth two thousand seventeen. Yeah. This is just like a building with. No, it's not obvious at the newspaper. We have to be buzzed into the Rio dosa office and once through the door. There's about a half dozen reporters sitting at desks piled high with papers. Riodosa main focus is the drug trade under government corruption in their offices there signs of havi air everywhere posters in his honor a plaque with one of his quotes in craved on his hung up near the door. We duck into an office. So that we can talk. Do you wanna tell us a little bit about air? What what made him so respected to fuck. The he was fearless. He he loved to tell stories about people that somehow were involved, and and organised crime and somehow were victims of that live. They had what kind what kind of a person was was just subscribe like what was his personality who was the coolest guy ever. He was so funny he'll up to it. He loves to drink. He used to go to this bar just straight this call. And the white Thrace the waiters they knew him. They just got sit in this. They will Nick owner. He just arrest. He was and then this was all very old lady who's to sell peanuts was would distract. And he was a bring these peanut peanuts. It was he would just sit. And just wait just I he just enjoyed the atmosphere containers, what was up with the hat at like one of the things that he's he's best known for now was his Panama hat now. You see in the posters and every picture. He's got the hat. Why nobody knows about that? But my believe it's. A one day was like boot Brown these Panama hot and was like somebody else told him so good in. And ever since. He would like Indiana Jones. Yeah. How it was really well known for she's call them, which was called Molly Jetta, mostly stores people involved or affected by the drug trade could written it for years. But that the beginning of may last year, she wrote something about those chapel. Second command have your mentioned something about this guy on trying to be like his dad and take over and sort of implied that the sun just had the guts that was it. And then after the store run have your was killed. We didn't see common. I mean he'd been after. I look I read the story over and over and I was like come on just because he published his so what happened on on the day. He was where were you? When this happened. I was. I would see these hotel. I was waiting for someone in clear con. Yes. That might from running, and it was a smile before kissed of the newspaper in a man. What's up in their silence on those side is mile? And then I heard like someone cried he's mile. What the fuck is happening. These Lamontagne that killed him. What they kill heavier or dog him out. They feel he was crying the kill have. Yeah. Where are you? I'm just the blokes from the new the newspaper the office. My way. So it was like what's try be trying to find the war killing to place. So had to drive in whenever I so the the the police 'cause I knew that supplies. So I just sparked. Gordon? And I just saw the the the body of heavier and the car was next to them. What's it was choking? It was really choking. And this is right here in front of the newspaper. Just around the corner, two blocks from here. Do you like snap into reporter mode and try to like make sense of the scene and gathering for mansion? No, you don't you? Don't think anything about that juicy. You a close friend lying on the ground dad through this blow dole over. Can you team? You don't you? Don't feel like I'm gonna talk to the cops to get in for maybe today. Neighbors to see what can tell me. No, nothing. No there were gone. He was dead. They didn't take him. He was gone. She was he got he was shot twelve times. And this why are you while maybe because feel those you know, translation variables have river. Twelve twelve times was killed twelve o'clock and Titas all Ryan the face. After Confucian all this fear. This bar Neue who's next. Was going to be next might be me might be someone else. And in my head. I was like I'm gonna get a gun and whenever they come from me. I'm not sure the mall. Did you get the gun now, I tend but? I was disclosed. I remember after the killing the director of the paper and unrest. Call me. And they told me we wanted to go. Why go where? Anywhere. Why do you know something about me? So was I had this paranoid. You know? We don't know anything. But you know, you are high-profile just lay cupbearer, you know, you know, the people do contact to do these interviews his connections. Do they know you drop file? Okay. So few days after I left. Let them kill us. All if that is the death sentence for reporting this hell, no to silence. Those are the words of a ward winning Mexican reporter heavier Valdez mud in broad daylight short. Just meters away from what he worked have vowed does was an internationally renowned journalist exposing Mexico's drugs trade and organized crime writing about the country's drug cartels is becoming increasingly dangerous hub years death is my meal on hell doesn't live in queer. Con me more his murder was felt around the world. There was international outcry street protests defending the rights of journalists. I remember hearing about a special issue of the paper that came out in the days after the murder, we asked if we could see a copy, this is this is Jim. Big picture have air. So this is how long after the is death. He was killed on the fifteen may fifteen six days six. Read the. Title. You see your key have been? Riddles is still here. So heavier. In all the stores were signed under the name of about this. Different reporters wrote. Yeah. This is the Kalume that Covey used to write blank. Have you what's in able to write not even a letter of his last Kaleem in this is this column next to it is just? This Justice for how about us over and over. His column blank. Sorry. It is. Right now, the whole newspapers like going nuts because. It's it's we're like a family real will. So. Every time that the the something to us or from the member the heat us all. This is a way of life is there's no way out. Have you getting killed to me? That was connected to tool chop extradite to the US because after Chapa was gone created all the scales in the lotto violence within his fought the cargo and Javier wasn't just any journalist. He was extremely well respected. And he was recognized all over the world. This was and he'd have to kill like that was so fucking. Fair. Okay. No over a year now. But then it was so crazy, you're go. Yeah. Whole thing. Actually, I was driving this this call. Thank you for. Maury. Just make you recount, I one of the worst as your life in great detail. I feel so good. Helped me with the story wants vice news, really. I was doing a story. It was after. Was captured. No. I didn't know, you know, I called. And he, you know. Wow. Me insights that as an ignorant Gringo did not have into significance. Go to was wow. I mean that was story. The kind of guy was would have anyone really care about the story about getting it right across Mexico. Dozens of journalists have been targeted and killed for reporting on the drug war in the past few years. The committee to protect your says twenty six murders of journalists have gone unsolved in Mexico in the past decade earlier this year, one of hobbies suspected killer's was arrested and was just recently charged with homicide in Mexico and the scene Loa cartel member. Suspected of ordering the hit turned himself in at the border last year, and is now in US custody. But the staff at riodosa doesn't believe Justice has been served when you go to the paper's website on the top left, a new number appears daily it tracks less d day Dodd the days of impunity since hobbies murder. It's nearing six hundred days. In two thousand eleven hobby. One international press freedom committee to protect your Lous in recognition of courageous journalism. In Mexico is legal status evil. He says what is dangerous to be a life to do journalists. It's the walk on line five guys are in drug trafficking. And in the government feel full of explosives, this what most of the consciously one moss. Thicke oneself from everything everyone and their doughnut seem to be options or so. She. There's no one. Akina?
A Solo Hiking Adventure
"Craze, Still Plan Peter and I'm police work into action packed. When are we travel across interview? Some amazing people who ventured to the corners of the world. We hope you'll feel as in as we do. By the extraordinary journeys, so let's go straight to the action. This week. We're talking to in Australia with incurable travel. Stephanie hot spend three decays traveling around the world, keying sailing and her latest exploit hiking. The two thousand, six, hundred and fifty mile linked the west coast of the US. Stephanie Welcome Troppo 'cause Hud. This will come about. Seventeen when you've got hooked on going places. Yes, I, when I was seventeen I, was studying at university and I'm working full price waterhouse and took a two weeks gain holiday to New Zealand was my fists. Holiday is an independent adult and I joined a group. They are on a tour of New Zealand skills and had such a wonderful time that I arrived back in Australia gave three weeks. Notice to mind ploy, university and what to second job to save. A few hundred dollars. Send with backpack is sleeping bag four hundred dollars a one way ticket. I lift to on my eighteenth. Birthday on. You went to New Zealand. I went back to New Zealand initially working escape fields there at at mount hot, and then went up to Oakland after the season was over, and did some white waitressing name before going to Europe. Where did he go in Europe I initially went to Switzerland spend a week in Zurich and then I went to France Some of this is that I met in New Zealand where working in France I went to Morzine Avoriaz in an income harm to Australia for a brief holiday, and on my way back to France a check that I had met working in the school in new. Zealand's invited me to. Stop Irene in Japan to visit some other girls that Mitt. In one of the chaps from the school, said, coming, visiting there and I, said on a really forty said, that's okay I'll get you a job so I started off to the an area in nugget, Kin Huckabee to see him, and then I said. What's this job? You've got me I got a job as a skein struck during the school and I said that's great except that. I worked in the cafeteria. So the couple who idle the guy who ended escape school are he ran a scaled with these so I, cooked cleaned for them for the rest of the winter season, and for the spring and summer is will. What's influence? You do this traveling. Did you? When you were growing up? Did you travel a lot with your family? Yeah, we travel a lot. We had never really done much skiing escape twice before going. Skiing Zealand. My grandparents had a farm, so we were always hitting off to the farm. My Dad become a glider instructor when I was about seven and inboard powered plane, and so we started. Started, doing a lot of plane travel, and then he had a small China companies, so that I've been up. Some other opportunities long distance traveled Australia who were always hitting off somewhere to go water, skiing or motorbike riding in every year for three weeks, we went to foster just a little stay. Saad Tan a few hours north of Sydney. We went there every Christmas and captive. Three weeks ATF. From when I was ten until malate teams until after Japan, while I was in Japan, I went to Hong Kong. My Mom flew over to Hong Kong and while we were there, we spent a few days in China and I was supposed to go to Indonesia after Hong Kong but China so much. That I cancelled my flight to Indonesia and win. Mom left Hong Kong I went back to China and spent three months travelling in China and then another month travelling in South Korea. This was in nineteen, eighty, seven. I think just before the Tiananmen Square massacre. Recall you know a number of friends who are concerned about my whereabouts when that happened. So travel inside in those days was really quite difficult and you bought a bike as Iran. Yeah it was really challenging. Because I ne- one hundred and fifty, five, seizing the hall of China were open to tourism at the time, and when I was on the boats going over to Gornj, I met a chap, and we spent the first week to traveling together, and he was there on his boss today, some long distance touring, and that was a little bit out. Out of my experience, but I did say the advantages of having bar equality in China, and but the area between the towns and CDs wouldn't actually I've been to tourism and being in is areas was an imprisonable offence so I, it was a little risky to Rod, but also fun city ride rampaging I once read rampaging on a bike. There's so many bites incredibly. Yes there. Certainly they now people didn't have 'cause I. Only any government employees had caused in fact caused with Syria that the tarmac was there was when the Chinese government was trying to stimulate the economy, and so they told farmers could cape a certain percentage of the yield from their annual production. Your annual harvest and I also provided them with harvesters so that they would transition from using water buffalo in the field, because these people didn't have cars, I can't. They would about flooring the. The field, and they drive their family around from place to place in the Harvester on the ride, and as you say the city, they'd be a few at a traffic lot. At five hundred baht, I never made it as far as Beijing now I spent two months traveling in China, and never made it further north in Shanghai, and then later on went back to Australia I are so spent time in China. They went to South Korea and went back to Japan and Tony. Tony English there for a while, and then went back to Australia, and then you had a family I did had a son, which was an exciting period in my life, I just enrolled in university, and he had the good graces to be born between my first and second semester university that was a challenging period, rising child, working and studying at the same time, and then you set off again when he was to, you went traveling with him. Is that right? Yeah, so? So I had an opportunity I was doing my degree to do a semester of study in the UK at the University of Homicide, so I saw that as a great opportunity to go and spend some more time in Europe for a couple of months before I went to haul, had friends in whom in Germany and I helped me by a little Carl on seventy, seven Volkswagon Paula, and we put the car seat in the front that looked like a rocket ship. and I started on my son set up the at the front with me as to when we drive twenty thousand kilometers around Europe in an easterner. Before I went to England to study whereabouts together, we started in Germany and went to Australia Italy Greece Bulgaria Romania Hungary Slovakia Slovenia Beck across through Austria back into Switzerland than us through different countries up to build him to take the ferry across to the guy, and then had a at a great opportunity to Osa guy to Scotland and Wales while I was studying in Spain to are waking all and. So all of that with a two year old in your car, that must have been tricky. Sometimes, it was was tricky sometimes when it got tricky, was at the end of a really long days driving. We will usually some really busy. We didn't have a GPS then or all of the tools `electronic tools that we have now driving around trying to raise a mapping the dock and. And from where on earth will spice this diet? That's when my son would really lose the plot and say he's screaming. I'm trying to deal with the traffic. Driving on the other side of the ride is evenings were very challenging, and there were there was more than one occasion where it just got so hard that we ended up dropping out of the city, and not just we. Just found a spot peach the tin. We just slate there deal with it in the morning, but usually did you book somewhere to stay or just ton? Yes, yeah, but sometimes just couldn't. Some homes just couldn't find day. Can All through on the side? You left England again? Yes, came back to Australia, so my son was two and a half then and spent the next few years buckling down and getting some work done. I finished my degree when I got home and worked for the university for a while, and then moved into Beck into into business, and had a very stressful job that became very stressful there for a while and I was at the gym one morning when. A guy that is to say every morning at the gym fit and healthy was always the he died at G.. Fell off the back of the Bach and couldn't be resuscitated a Messina, not a lady guiding CPR and couldn't revive him. And I spent the rest of the day. Just really wondering what was I doing with my loss. Why was I staying in this job that had become really stressful. It was really toxic environment to me and so six weeks later. I'd quit my job board a yacht saw. Saw My house and was living on the yacht, initially in the marine just physics wakes for for another six weeks while my father helped me transition it full onboard leaving, and then we sit sail spent two and a half years selling up and down the Queensland Coast, which thousands of almonds in the Mary did you know about setting and you to show their child? Now? I'd never felt so. I was at the time that this happened and I had been dating a fellow with your and hate introduced me to some other people who also leaving onboard they are, and also went to a barbecue, and there was a family on a couple who had two children on board, so it became clear that having a child was an obstacle to styling behind schooling decades in I, looked around and thought. These people out rocket scientists. If they can do it, I can do it and said I seeks wait did is in the marina feeding out my by island to sell it, and sometimes it was just a case of asking someone else from the Marina who had a spare afternoon. If that could come and spend a couple of hours me on my show me had to do. Do something that I didn't know how to do it. And the first three days when we left for good I did our someone to style with me. He was caught experienced. We had to go over a bar that headquarter reputation, and so I asked if he would help missile across the bar, and then he left after three days and we. We're on our after that scary. It was scary and it was exciting. We left it meet not because we wanted to get the todd out of the Riva the pool from the rear The Todd was running. The other way was caught significant end at seven o'clock in the morning, just after it had become lot, and it was the fifth time by myself, and my son had been saying. There wasn't particularly Raff. There was just a funny role at upset stomachs and I'd gone down relied to. A course which I did every hour, and there was these Almighty crash on the Dick and I went running up and on. Just didn't couldn't comprehend what I was saying. The style was in the water. There was a big beaming in the water and I I i. thought it was the master turned out. It was just the boom and I'm just going. Look what's gone wrong, and so my son helped me winch. This style is really heavy full of water than I am I got on the house point of my by and called my friend who had sowed with me at abundant big, and said the booms down, and the sales the water what just happened and he said I think you bright, you talking and I said well. What is that and is it important? So, we ended up monitoring to scribe all, and and while we were this and people on another yacht helped winch me up the top of the mast, and I am just. A temporary measure to fix the Sil- backup from I couldn't couldn't style with the full extension. It was had to be reefed down in order I to style back this way, but then we're able to spend a few days there and style at leisure to we got to McCarthy, and had a Yuba putting back on the top of the mast topic repaired, and we were fine, after that wasn't allied scary moment, but it was the first one where I'm just gonNA. What am I doing? And how was your son? At the time he was known. It was just the two of us on board, so he was my. He was my first night. They call styling socialized singlehanded sailing and I felt like styling with the child. Some home was like sign with both hands tied behind your back that he was actually he was very good. Pick things up very quickly with very sensible and very innovative onboard. Sometimes, there were situations that I was stumped Niessen Mama I. Think you should try this in often. A, when did you go on the on your yard? As the first year, we just styled from Brisbane up to the Wheat Sundays and back to Brisbane. We saw through in court. A lot of islands and bays and things like that that aren't really accessible by car. The all on inhabited and then the second G, we sailed all the way up to lease it all, which is north of cooktown towards the Torres Strait not not in the Torres Strait, and then we saw back from it the Wheat Sundays we'll actually back from the Dunk Carlin and I spent a summer, anketing Dunkel island in doing some dogging instruction, and then the next year we just went back and sailed around the with Sunday's. Sounds amazing your next adventure after thought was hiking. As my my mice, recent adventure was hawking in two thousand eighteen IHEART. The Pacific Chris Trial in the United States. It runs the entire distance from the Mexican border to Canada. It's not a coastal trial, although it does parallel the coast around one, hundred, one hundred and fifty miles inland from the coast, it runs up through the high desert in through the Sierra Mountains and in through a another mountain range cold, the cast guide so it goes through California. California Oregon and Washington. The entire trial is two, thousand, six, hundred and fifty miles, or four, thousand, two, hundred, fifty or Columbus and on every tixx about one hundred and forty, nine or one hundred fifty is to complete took me one hundred and fifty five I was doing some work in Perth in two thousand fifteen and the same year the movie walled Reese Witherspoon came out and when I was watching that movie I realized that a woman in. In a hawking group that I was a member of hockey net trial at the time, and when she came back, she did a walk and I went along with a friend, and was really inspired and thought. You know I really love to do that. And it was just an incredible experience I was so inspired by my friends, Tolkien, and soon as I got the opportunity to go I took it off I went, and what was the terrain like? Like, so the I seven hundred miles and I have to apologize. I can't tell you these distances in in metric, because as soon as I got there. I realized that. If I didn't start thinking Abou- everything into in the way that the like people thought abandoned in the whitest on each was and things like that I'd be forever. Converting are would make mistakes and things like that, so the desert section I goes to seven hundred miles and it's. Relatively flat them in there s still mountain ranges. They and you still harking up into areas of snow. In fact down onto ballet's, it's called the Pacific Chris Trial, because it follows mountain ranges, so it's certainly not flat by Australian definition of a flat, but were comparatively flat to you. Get into the Sierra, and then you are just climbing up six thousand feet a die down six thousand feet diet. The entire distance is locked climbing from hockey from the say to the top of Everest back to the say, Seventeen Times the distance end the elevation gain in losses similar. Mason I'm what about the weather was that? Okay or did it? Was it sometimes too difficult to hike? Because of the weather, I had more rain than most people usually experience, which wasn't a bad thing at my the desserts cooler I started early by traditional Stott Deitz for the Pacific crest trial, and that meant that I arrived at the Sierra early even by the conditions were. Were possible for people to go in there because I'm from Australia I. Don't have a lot of have never really spent a lot of time. In the snowfields, a dynamic, a lot of experience with snow, and I made a decision that it wasn't right for me to go in at that time, so initially I took two weeks off the trial and went to see the grand. Grand Canyon a number of other places in the US that I was really excited to to visit luck on Ross National Pa. And then I was watching the accounts of other people who were in the Sierra Hawking into this year the time and they just sounded pretty. Israel tomato I post hauling from non o'clock in the morning. Usually you have fairly solid snow until me die. Die You can start at four o'clock in the morning. Heart dies down while I was starting at two, hawking to non and then sometimes post hauling up to their waists, and it doesn't sound like very much fun, so I went north to skip the Sierra to get a and went back and did it lighter, but I skipped north to to an area felling called Sierra. And started hockey north from now I still encountered snow and I definitely felt out of my depth on with now hawking line as a solid Hawk that you may other people, and there are always other people travelling in the same direction as you harking it fairly similar prices you and so you run into the Mola. Tom throughout the course of the day you might be in the same camp sought. You might have chosen the cat sign pies to camp at not will. There was no one I didn't see anyone. Seeks Dies five and A. A half dies. I was worried that it was taking too slow, so I didn't say anyone. I needed to distort in sort of tight measure, because it was taking me a lot longer to the section than I thought because of the snow, and I was worried that I might run out of food and and then I realized when I did a bit of an assessment of where I was at wasn't food. It was the problem because I couldn't say the trial. Because couldn't say many footprint. I was using my foreign as by GPS. GPS Law to to find the trial, so they're not was consented I didn't have enough power in my battery pack to Kate Might Find Charge. Linked to Thomas going to need to get to the town, and I decided that I could afford to continue for half a day longer until the ended that day, and if the conditions didn't improve than unaided to go back and had met previously people who had come back out because they were finding the conditions to tough anyway I got to the end of that. Diane things were much better there. There was a lot less nine so I. I continued. That was probably it wasn't bad. Weather just conditions that were other were Adam. I was out of debt. I had a couple of slips in the Austin one of them honestly thought landing like that amount of had trouble getting out of and so I had to you know, take these things into consideration, but other than that I think I was pretty fortunate with rhythm through a few thunderstorms and Hawking Iris, it seeks thousand fate. Thousand fate threw a lightning. Storm is really scary. Santa Yeah did while you sleep? You always had a ten. Yes, so you carry a tent with you and you just find a Bay Patrick. On the side of the. there there's an APP for a couple of EPS it. You can follow that. Tell you where they might be places. Lock that coming up, so you can sort of at the start of the day or the night before you might look at what you want to accomplish for the next day and choose something that you think a suitable distance. Occasionally you pass something else as you getting close to the time of day. Day that you'd like to finish anything. This looks so or you might push on a little further I. didn't use my Tanto Lot. Though I went. Joe Often slit without my tent, just on the ground with my sleeping bag and let's go cowboy camping and I went through one Renault into whole month. Without sleeping in my taint cabot camping was my preferred way to sleep. If the wasn't GonNa rain during the not. What about wildlife was there anything like Basil anything? That could it be dangerous snake? Yes, so these three states have rattlesnakes and other snakes, but most of the other snakes aren't venomous rattlesnakes, Biz and mountain lions, so I like wildlife. I was excited to have wildlife laughing. Canada's locked is. Quite accustomed to talking with air snakes, Australia so even though I saw some rattlesn- night, they were experiences that exotic man. Oh my God. I was so excited. The Face Thomas Obey I was absolutely thrilled. I'd had my eyes appeal. Had passed on the otherwise denied saying bays, and it was just such a hollered hours. Absolutely true and I had run into someone was talking with someone at that stage and I said. Oh you hockey much faster now. Is it because of the and it's not because I'm scared of the bad. Just that I was so excited I was on cloud nine. Stephen based on the trial and I was delighted with every bear experience I never saw a mountain lion. I I would have loved to have seen a man, LUND says. was there any danger from the bears, or did you know what to do to avoid well? These are black bears, which are not the same as Grizzly Byzantine have the same reputation is grizzly bears. You do have to be sensible. It's important that you don't get between a mother. Bear and hiccups, and it's also important that you take adequate care of your food, and particularly how you story of food at not so through Sierra, you must. must use a beer can and you should leave. It should put bear can away from where you can't at not, and they were others with that was sensible. As I often slit, tweet my food with the Bacon or what is back on exactly it's a canister that fits all of your food and all of your toiletries, and all of your rubbish, and they're all the scented things that obey decided that it likes the smell off and. It's got special antilock pages. If you think about childproof locks on same medicine bottles, it's block that I ni fifty times. And the Locke's Matarrese, usually tool to help you open the lock. Because the bay is a very clever and learn how to open these devices. You make sure you stare stored away from you ten, but you don't store near a cliff because they will drop them over the cliff to smash the up in that way I didn't have any trouble, but I didn't Kansas amount of people who had all their food in by a big. Wow, what do you do about water so fortunately? There's a water report that tells you in the areas where water is scarce, which is the is it one or two other sections? It tells you where you can expect. Expect. Water and people updated as they travel along I also mentioned that there was an APP that you could use his JP end. You could also look at the reports for water there, so when I found water in sections where people winch, or if there was water, there was an area where I was talking through, and so I was always update this I wear I fan war-era. They're the two considerations HD days. Where is the water to make sure that you carry enough and way will? You can't tell us about the people you met along the way the people I met were amazing. You Atoll before you guy by people who've done it before that. That you make the most incredible friendships, and you're expecting it, but there's just something about I. Don't know if it's just these trial, or if it embarking on a long distance trial, but there's something that just cracks your heart wide open, and you approach these French. In just a really genuine way, you make friends with people that you probably wouldn't kanner in your daily loss that you know the a very different yield. Very different laws are range of ages and loss styles, and countries, and I just fell in love with everyone. It was an incredible experience. I was very lucky early on to develop a trial family, which is called a tramway and you were. Were given a trial name. usually on a long distance trial, mice, people given child I'm and these young guys. You are failing hawking with on fifteen hours forty, eight, forty, forty, nine in film, these also saw travelers. A group regards mostly in the mid twenties range from twenty to eighty and couple Alda and I gave me the trial and I'm Wendy of the lost boys. I thought they were lost boys from Japan and and say my child nine became Wendy of the lost boys, and from then on our was not nine as Stephanie Anymore. It is windy the people you made. It really is amazing if you're you do foam very very strong. When you run into the sign, people in different places and you get really excited that you've met them before. Well match more intent than that to try and give you an example of what it feels like. You mentioned trail angels. What are they say? Trial Angels that the trial just wouldn't be the same without the mirror. Really special people who usually aren't hawking, but they provide services to hawk, so I was part of the facebook group and a woman who is a trial. Angel offered when I arrived in America for me to stay at her house. Then she would take me to the trial, so she picked me up from San Diego and drive me to her house. I stayed for Cutler. Cutler dies while I got my jetlag. Did my grocery race apply? It's quite difficult for international travelers, because you can't bring you food or any food really with you saying innate to do fish shot usually Australians want to get some gear there as well because it's less expensive than in Australia, and so I stayed with her for a couple of days. And then she drove me to the start of the trial, and then trial angels from the on people who awfully somewhere to stay while you're in town, might offer to help drive you somewhere if you need something special during race supply die also just do random pop-ups on the trial where someone will pack somewhere in open the beauty the. Full of food and called drinks trial coming all different foams provide an amazing service usually at Nikon. To Haughey's I've never experienced such incredible generosity is what did you take with you on the trail? Pat Nicely on a on a long distance. Hockey's iming to have you pack as lot as possible, so you don't take anything that you not going to use nearly everything needs to have a multi. Use PIPPA so my big four my pack. Pack my tent, my sleeping bag and my met Dan I had hawked without a stove, so I called food the hallway so anything I really had in my food was a spoon, and a little off, then I had bear claws, so has don't carry a lot of clothing within. You've got the clothes you wearing that you hearken then you've got one clothes. You put on if you need to so our heart in shorts and fishing. Fishing shirt which are found was really vented, and had quite good airflow, and then I had a puffy to put on if I got called. Ryan Jacket and Ryan, Pant didn't. I ended up dropping rain pants from my kid. And then you have the quasi sleeping, which really is just a pair of them will taught an Thamel Tall, and you can live in with your hockey clause if conditions get really called, so you sleep in? In your Thamel gear with puffy and I had a cool, not a sleeping bag, and that just it's a little bit locher, and it works on the basis that when you align on Dan you compressing it, and it's not insulating you anyway other than that. I had a very small I kit a couple of toiletries, but really just toothbrush toothpaste and China Clippers, and then I, had a little of is my sort of electronics and. And Navigation in spares and repair, so a compass, a battery pack my fine mind Ta Pack White Without Food and water was around seven kilos. Food generally was user to follow six hundred grams a day of food, and I really had to carry more than three liters of water on the trial. Whether anytime when you thought you might not make it that you might have to give up. Yes, so I had really bad plan officie. Officie oddest when I started before I started hockey in the trial in fact when I was flying ivor, and even in the car on the way to the trial I was thinking I'm not even last away. It's the connective tissue between the ball of your foot NGO. He'll, and it affects different people different ways, most people who have it that it's a little bit painful for them to walk I in the morning and then it. It goes away. It was like every step was like someone was driving off up through my heel I. Really wasn't sure if I was going to be able to complete the hawk, I'd done much preparation including new moving out of the house where leaving and temporarily rehoming my dogs and taking six months off work that I thought I was going to go anyway. I made it through with arbitrary from, but there were times where. where the pine was caught that other than that that section of the trial where our alliance physiques dies I really questioning what I was doing. I felt like I'd already had an amazing experience. I was said that my family when I longer on trial that lift the trial for different reasons I thought you know. I've got three and a half more months of work. Maybe I should spend some of that on a beach in Thailand. Drinking my art is in Thailand and so I went through a period like that where it was high, and they were one or two other times where I felt like quitting one of the things that kept me going because I had initially skip this year, because of the snow, a harsher northern California and a hawk through all of Oregon and the thing that kept me going was you haven't seen this area and you haven't seen Washington yet, which the? The two, my spectacularly scenic parts of the trial, and then I got into the Sierra, and dusted, and have the connection to it as a was hawking thought you know I, think I'm done I think of saying everything I wanted to say they say. Don't quit on a bad day. That's the advice from other has never quit on a bad die. Because usually there's better times ahead and wasn't a bad day the day that are made the decision. Decision to quit to trial was really spectacular die I stopped and had an came in really called divisive waterfall, and then I went and had a nap on this, and tracing the sun, and thought yeah I'm done, and then I looked at the map about where I needed to leave the trial to in my heart, and there was a junction where I could leave the trial. Just three miles away and I thought that to be close maybe. Maybe I'll take the knicks one and I thought you know I'm almost at Yosemite I'm not as we'll just talk to Yosemite. I really really wanted to go there. And that was only a few days away. I thought well. That'd be a nice way to finish the hawk. Full more dis Oh cutty, and and then I'll be done, and as I was leaving there. I applied a podcast joyride podcast with a freak of night. Toco David Goggin and And he just talked about doing the hot things and sucking it up, and not quitting. I got to the end of the podcast and and I was done with wanting to quit, and I continued and completed the rest of the trial. Tell us about your journalism misery specific point where you run onto trial. Yes, there is a monument on the Canadian border and you've got two options. When you reach it, you can then hike thirty five miles back into. into the US, I and try and get to Seattle from the oil. You can hide Moma's forward into Canada and unfinished. The Not before admit a woman to size last couple of is, and we were sort of when I say hawking get, we'd see each other during the die and we'd end up in the same camp saw at night. I had a chat to her. The Not before and we agreed that we wanted to Hawk separately in the. The morning, so that we experienced the finish on just to really get the maximum benefit from an always expecting it to be really emotional, and now is really surprised when it wasn't i. just sorta got there and went. Yeah, there's the monument was my birthday I. So the monument is a quite an interesting shite. Beds is these wooden pillars of different hots, and I had knowing that I was gonNA finish on my birthday I bought all these sneakers. Sneakers Baas debt in the heff different, so I have twin packs in two packs and single ones, and they're all different sizes. M I myself as NECAS, Bob Stike from all these different, hot, sneaky Bassett. Look just like the just like the monument. So I got that atten, there were a few other people who arrived just before, and just after me, and we all celebrated together, and it was exciting, but it wasn't caught didn't have quite the climactic. I duNno I duNno, the expecting trumpets and. And things Thought I'd cry and I didn't but It's still incredible then. Design Malls into Canada are the longest miles of the whole trial. Daiva and you want it to be over, but you don't want it to be because really you want to keep doing it forever. And often it's how you get back to normal life. Was that easy? It was easy and difficult. If that makes sense, I was back at work awake after finishing the trial, and that was a cult to shop in its time. Wise in that respect. It was like I'd never gone on the other hand. You fundamentally changed in. It's really hard to work out how you can be that new person. Becky Newell outlaws and I think for people who go on to create I a different law for themselves. When I return I know, everyone struggles with it in their iron way, but I feel like in some ways at market. Give you an opportunity to be. Be More of the new person that you've become one of the things that you really struggle with his, you have just a change dismissed incredible epic thing for me. It was was incredible in an epic in the greatest achievement of my life, other than rising much hog, and so it's weed that people don't know this about you, and it's not. You want to brag about it, but you feel like it so significant. Everyone should just know. That sounds really guy centric I know. It's hard to explain what I mean by that, but it's it's just just weird. LAFI, sign almo and your. Fundamentally different. Now I know that you're butts. Torturer input cost. But how else can people follow your exploits? well I have a facebook community called wildly in sparring community, which anyone who's interested in night to based adventure is welcome to join. They can find that by searching for Wadley inspiring community on facebook Stephanie. Thank you very much preparing travel poor cost him. We wish you the very best of luck in the future with your traveled around the world. Thank you say it's Beta privileged, thank you. That SOFA now. If you've enjoyed the show, do please visit our website. Action packed travel, DOT, com, or subscribe on spotify. Google podcasts, I tunes or another the many platforms that were on. Financial Twitter facebook and instagram. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with at least one other person. Craze is still.
Emergency Fake Emergency Pod!
"Hey everybody welcome to a very special bonus episode of love it or leave it last night donald trump in his capacity as semi president addressed the nation from the Oval Office it was carried live by the major networks because no one learns anything or we'll take responsibility for their actions and we live in a culture where people read that speech by the person in the office that used to be held by American presidents with Jon Favreau Tommy Vitor Hullah Lisa Arce Ho crooked families here earlier tonight the person occupying the Oval Office a job once held by American presidents gave his first ideally second to last Oval Office address the Arce and I broke down the speech with that you're GonNa really like it and you can also watch this okay stop at YouTube dot com slash crooked after Republicans and Democrats in the Senate unanimously passed the spending do about it what did he say to become a different person network executives feckless wimps for running the speech you know he's my imaginary Spencer and I can say whatever I want about Spencer because he does not listen I just you know one of your best friends pick was immigration and the border trump's efforts to manufacture a crisis in order to justify his impulsive decision to shut down the government and blackmail Congress to get five billion dollars in funding let's not exciting episode mystery my fellow Americans tonight I am speaking to you because there is a growing humanitarian enter our country we are out of space to hold them and we have no way to promptly return them back home to their country I show you can get tickets right now crooked dot com slash events and you better go quickly 'cause I don't WanNa get tweets about how you're in the balcony you know maybe you'll be in the balcony it'll be a great fucking joe there to do it and as always love it or leave it is brought to you by our good friends at the cash out you know the cash up it's the simplest and easiest way and everybody Stein for a very special okay stop here A. and security crisis at our southern border every day customs and Border Patrol agents in counter thousands of illegal immigrants trying to to pay people back or have people pay you back you download the cash out you put in the Code Pod Save P. O. D. S. V. E. or you went in the Code Spencer because and maybe I'll request some money from Spencer in the cash up just to say hey pay me for not listening you know but you can use it for anything and if you do download the cash media because you know we're not pivoting video but we're not not hitting video but before we get to that two quick things love it or leave it going on tour we start in DC at the anthem theater February six going to be an awesome show was pretty great guests were lining up right now and it's GonNa be surprised so you'll just have to children's have to come we're going to be going Chicago Boston download the cash APP and you put in the Code Pad Save or the Code Spencer you get five dollars and five dollars goes to support relief efforts for people affected by the terrible climate fires in California okay first of all I would like to point out that he's given the address from the Oval Office and behind him presumably are his immigrant parents and he's speaking about keeping immigrant because that's what we should call them but you down the cash up because they're a great supporter of this show now let's get to this bonus episode and this very special okay stop for a very it's out and this whole this whole we're running out of room bullshit no they're not under the country well Dallas Houston and Austin Texas we're going to Minneapolis Milwaukee Madison Wisconsin were lining up some awesome guests were in place in really fun games so come to our and yeah you know what you start by introducing the idea of qualifiers and then you just start calling that and then other people call them that native Americans who are who are highly affected by this because they heavily depend on federal payments to to run very basic I had a podcast that probably check out one episode you may not listen to everyone but you'd like once in a while you check it out but that's not the world noting that he started the speech by talking about immigration start making up this this crisis on the border the fucking federal government shutdown why we should build a wall is it's really idiotic because he is asking for more detention beds just want to correct one thing that I believe is factually inaccurate documented immigrants in the US did not sneak across the border they flew here on an airplane and then just overstayed their visas so this is made up bullshit a proudly illegal migration it's strains public resources and drives down jobs and wages among those hardest hit are African set like settling in my head that we that native Americans are suffering over a government shutdown because trump wants to build a wall to keep people out of print labels for their new beer that's really affected me personally but the one one group of people that we're not talking about at all really all comes millions of lawful immigrants who rich our society and contribute to our nation but all Americans are hurt by uncontrolled immigrants who were holding in detention and in his proposed two thousand nineteen budget he's asking for fifty two thousand detention beds so this idea that we're running out of room and I'm not sure that those are a picture of his parents I believe he got those at an old timey racist frame store it's possible it's it's also worth so we're out of space to hold them Jalisco what do you make of that. Thousands of Americans have been brutally killed by those who illegally entered our country and thousands more lives will be lost if we don't act functions like having their clinics open and having their schools open and having their roads be available to people to drive on so to me I've like really WanNa let the point like Shipman so a wall is not stopping the drugs and we know that because that is what the DA tells us the government agency the years race baiting fearmongering You know the the the pinning of the Latino community versus the African American community he doesn't give a shit about our communities all he about is that we think we're in competition with one another and that we find for the scraps and I'm so tired of it like no this is not this this the country land that we stole from them and now they're the ones suffering for ironically they're the ones who could point you an immigration crisis and by the way there is no crisis illegal border crossings right now this is a humanitarian crisis a crisis of the heart and a crisis of the Seoul Okay Stop Yup this is a speech he gave a prime time because the federal government is shut down there's eight hundred thousand people who aren't working right now government services are being delivered and he just likes worth remembering that there was a deal so we're gonNA shut down because he threw a fit because of an coulter and Democrats getting attention after they won the house and he's saying he wants his five billion for nothing Democrats there was a deal on the table for him to get twenty five billion for the border to just all you have to do is protect dreamers who who did nothing wrong by coming here and one of the reasons that he you are in legal shipments or smuggled passenger vehicles so his stupid wall would do nothing to stop that and the fennel comes through the mail from China which apparently he tweeted down in two thousand and was one point six million people apprehended trying across the southern border in two thousand eighteen is less than four hundred thousand two thirds are people of of vast quantities of illegal drugs including meth heroin cocaine and Fenton Oh okay stop just real quick most drugs that enter the US from the southern border anything about how do we actually process claims for asylum because of this is a humanitarian crisis and it's about people seeking asylum and we care about it's this whole beginning of the speeches talking about immigration can I can I say one thing about the people who are being affected by the by the shutdown because yes of course you know like craft brewers can't like asylum everyone agrees except this asshole that you can build a wall across the entire border that's not gonNA stop people from going to ports of entry and trying to claim asylum wow this is actually about human life like he doesn't care about human life like we've had jacqueline seven-year-old watermelon girl who speech not about the Latino community it's not about how do we help let the knows how do we help african-americans it simply about painting our communities against each other it's also grant them asylum or even processed their claims art of an overall approach to border security law enforcement professionals have requested five points so he doesn't care about humanitarian crisis that we have that we've separated how many children from their parents we don't know where some of the mark and so far he hasn't said who evoke human empathy which I don't think that was every once in a while we're treated to some really awful Stephen Miller speechwriter it's on and that is a great example yeah it is and also you know we used to we used in ninety four we used to hold maybe seven thousand immigrants in detention as of two thousand eighteen it was thirty to thirty eight thousand died at the custody of the US government Philippa Gomez eight-year-old Watermelon Boyd died at the hands of in custody of the US of US woman life then why aren't we talking about how do we actually process this claim so that people can come into the country legally well I mean that's that's a great point because autumn how El Chapo smuggled drugs into the country which was not you know through the through a lot of it came through like tunnels and to your this barrier is absolutely critical to border security it's also what our professionals at the border want sniffing and just just a quick note on crisis of the heart and crisis of the soul there is nothing every once in a way that donald trump is less capable of delivering than something that's meant need this is just common sense the border wall would very quickly pay for itself Okay Americans and Hispanic Americans okay here we go I mean I could I could have predicted I mean I I was like this is he's going to go to the seven billion dollars for a physical barrier at the request of Democrats it will be a steel barrier rather than a concrete wall that's just a lie the one thing that has changed because border crossings are at you know a two decade low but there has been an influx in people women and children specifically families and children seeking it a couple of years ago so he knows that I keep really needs to watch like he really solicit to El Chapo the podcast I think he'll learn custody and not to mention that we've had one hundred and eighty five deaths that ice has recognized people who have died in their custody from two thousand and three to two thousand eight they told us that they want it the wall well guess what there are fifteen million people that live along the border like sometimes we talk about the border as as dislike abstract you know you step back like I would love to go back to the campaign where Donald trumps favorite sentence was we're going to build a wall Mexico's GonNa pay for it but if they don't there's legally allowed to do and the reason that there's such an influx in that we we're all backed up is because there's not enough immigration judges to process the claims and so like succeeds five hundred billion dollars a year vastly more than the five point seven billion dollars we have requested from Congress he has created and they're furloughed because of the shutdown is created his own crisis on the border based on people seeking asylum because he's refusing to he's in our minds but their actual real people that live there fifteen million of them and in a recent survey sixty five percent of them said they definitely do not WanNa Wall Dancing New Yorkers steel steel steel that Okaz Yo Cortez instagram livening cement pouring activities house he also lost to Republican seats along the border and now the only person who is a Republican who still holds office that has a border district is eh trump's entire closing argument was a mother made up order crisis about this caravan in the results of that election was aside from losing forty seats in the you know some that combined some metal who is the talking point convincing what's the value of it if it were true the fuck are we doing why is a steel wall less than I'll shut down the government to get you to pay for it and then I'll say it pays for itself based on nothing changes from concrete to steal if you're still upset about what do you want the wall demand all across their backyard people who live along the border don't think there's a crisis and they don't WanNa wall the people who think that and believe that are Fox News viewers we just rented election turn down that deal is because he wanted to reduce legal immigration which you just claimed here right something something he really cares about borders a pipeline for it it's GonNa look you know these Democrats they hate cement classic liberals with their with their socialism and they're dancing there cement wall where we get this why does he think that's good. Why does this motherfucker think that's good I was gonNA call him a motherfucker get one in then he's like it's going to pay for itself trump and twenty twenty it's going to be like the aliens are going to pay for it I'm like no and also you know when he saying like Oh we asked people I do the easy thing but that's what we're here to talk about so we watched the speech and then we did a very special okay stop where Jon Favreau Tommy Vitor Jalisco erred who says that the reason he won his election and a tough year for Republicans because he opposed the border wall so that is that is the politics of the border and border walls but also like it I think it is mind he thinks that the DA sells the cocaine seasons shit in the heart of the soul what's the different like total eclipse of the heart were needed a few extra words and also does he also you know that when we confiscate drugs we don't get to turn around and sell it he doesn't like reminder like the American carnage thing like an array rot the dregs of Republican politics a crisis of the Harper? What does it what did you anything I didn't request that at all we've been critical of Chuck Schumer in the past but Chuck Schumer did not go up to Donald Trump it's like I don't like concrete I want metal I want something I would have paid for getting a job what are you talking right I like Mexico's GonNa pay for it the rubber panels what happened to the solar panels solar panels on the wall illegal drugs the Da Selva cocaine found a funding mechanism? He doesn't think so what's his name Ted Cruz didn't he like Introduced Awesome Bill called the Chapel Chapo Bill Yeah because so he he wants the money that we cease from Troppo to go towards paying for the wall like I thought it was yeah went along with it and Mitch McConnell said he won't even consider a bill without the border funding which is insane because he passed it a week ago remember a week ago used to provide our brave border agents with the tools they desperately need to protect our families and our nation low energy repeatedly supported a physical barrier in the past along with many other Democrats they changed their mind only after he's dish novels don't have whiplash from how quickly they switch their position they passed it no funding for the border wall they they obviously would ages over the last what fifteen years we have steadily increased funding for border security is true under George W Bush was true under Obama there's an unprecedented amount of funding Security Administration is doing everything there oxygen Ralph those impacted by the situation but the the federal government remains shut down for one reason the first time he brought only because Democrats will not fund border Senator Chuck Schumer who you will be hearing from later tonight has I love it. He gives a preview of jokes Gratien bill passed one of the points he made over and over again is every time he tries to get a comprehensive immigration deal Republicans come back and say we want more border security and every time we said yes I remember Oh and then Ann Coulter got mad so here we are doing this fucking thing and like the the fact that he that Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham and the rest trump's chief-of-staff mick mulvaney gave up the whole thing in two thousand fifteen when he said the wallace stupid it's not gonNa work it's a thing you can sell political it's an image is in line as you were saying earlier to take your job came down to it and show little respect you printed Ellen's game of Games was elected president okay stop so who are change their mind here I mean actually what's interesting about it though is indirectly he is pointing to something that is true the country what to talk about the sniffing he only does it before major primetime addresses you can go google it there's a guy that worked on the or boots on the ground get boots on the ground you want he said you want you want to wall you'll get a wall because they were they were giving him money for these have spent an incredible amount of money on this already welcome to the show tonight you're going to hear from you then you're gonNa hear from headlining but after me also he doesn't even mention Nancy he's like you're going to hear from Chuck Schumer except like Nancy the bad old days before the house was run by cool lady negative love have passed it a hundred two zero at new trump was going to pitch a fit then he does this demands the house does it of course Paul Ryan and his Merry Band of goons act a continuing resolution that would fund the government with no five point seven billion dollars for the border wall Republicans passed it through the Senate one hundred to nothing he was already to go for Border Security and unprecedented manpower border security it's in part as John mentioned why illegal crossings are down one of the remember when Barack Obama was trying to get a comprehensive only solution is for Democrats to pass a spending bill that defends our borders and reopens the government this Oh he's given a great address Democrats in Congress have refused to acknowledge the crisis and they have refused apprentice donald trump is putting stuff up his nose and it's not as finger so it's it's a drudge immoral then why do wealthy politicians or build walls fences and gates around their homes they don't build walls because what is this a bunch of bullshit could be solved in a forty five minute meeting summer suggested a barrier I'm not spoiling it I thought actually happening Ozark but here's the thing right like I they first yelled like the reason we need to wallace because rapist and then he said Ms Thirteen and then the caravan and now they're screaming terrorists and now he's saying the reason the government shutdown is because Democrats but I'm just going to tell you that it's not going to stop the demand for drugs or the interest for people living in places with horrible political situations come the United States it's a fucking waste of time it's not going to even dent the issue at the border right now which is an influx of people trying to claim asylum that's not the walls are going to do anything about that right in writing this speech with you in two thousand eleven he was like every single request they've they've asked for for Border Security we've done it and they still won't do anything about path to thrones you get drones you want you want more we'll give you a moat that was that was what we just heard that was when he said Oh they changed their mind the person who changed his mind was donald trump he I we shed before Congress does it's for those who refuse to compromise in the name of Border Security I would uh-huh maybe you already does talk show that would be a twist what are we doing this to control the market have you seen Ozark ozark spoiler who those countries were not addressing the crisis that he did create which is the DACA crisis which you know none of us are talking about and I'm just GonNa plug it in that we have a crooked Commerce Melissa debating whether or not there is a crisis spend almost no time just reminding the world that the wall would not fix the problem even if there was a crisis it is not a deterrent to smugglers or trafficker saw the crisis that that mother created how much more American blood being and Donald Trump wants to talk to a tiny narrow sliver of older mostly white Americans because those are people who ask imagine if it was your child your husband or your wife okay style I've actually hate the people on the outside debate on the inside is immoral is the politics Sion's to do nothing and continue to allow more innocent people to be so horrible okay okay so this would piss me off of this debate like we anina political symbol and like I just hate how the press corps gets led down this path where we debate the crisis in the stats your solution is bullshit well as happening to the people that are getting deported right now we have more deportations we have record number of deportations happening those are the crisis that Donald trump created and windass room would risk their lives leave their family behind leave their land behind their language behind leave their good food behind to travel two thousand miles station coming out when we talk about this Daca and we talked to to jen part the first doctor recipient to get a Rhodes scholarship and so like these are the things that can't who find it much easier to imagine being the victim of some kind of violence trump you know a exaggerating the threat posed by immigrants but of course donald trump would never say the crisis that Democrats need to ask people in leadership in the house now they need to think about what are the the bills that we need to pass to protect those people and your point we need to keep bringing back into the conversation like what is happening to the people that are sitting in a detention what is happening to the to the three thousand families that were separated at the border what is is about whether we fulfill our sacred duty to the American citizens we serve when I took the oath of office I swore to he came down that fucking escalator has been immigrants are coming to kill you and your family that's it he did that was the announcement speech that was all through the by the way is why the statistics are pretty clear that immigrants commit far fewer you know far far less crime than native born Americans because exactly you're seeing people came here to build a life they came here to see that's not like the core of the issue of what people are living or they're leaving their countries like we're not even addressing that at all right we're not addressing the the aid that we should be sending affect our country and that is what I will always do so help me God thank you and good night so help me God I'm about to take this hoops off Scot into that point in the night he sucks in this setting he's so low energy can't read sternly watching their granddaughter Mary someone they hate I mean that is that is a terrifying sight what the ends this crisis to every citizen call Congress and tell them to finally after all of these decades no matter what the issue whenever he is in a jam whenever he's in trouble whenever his approval rating sagged whenever he's in a tight election immigrants coming to kill you it is all he has why did they do that because basically Jack Nicholson was having trouble finishing his book and he goes more and more worth stopping to say look like you could argue that like one of one of the biggest that politics boils down to like who can you be convinced to imagine yourself they were so cruelly shattered and totally broke redundant every member of Congress pass a bill art over and just we never talk we're talking about a manufactured crisis he's calling it a humanitarian crisis there are there is there is a set of policies you would sensible to say we have a disagreement about the border has nothing to do with FAA regulators food safety food stamps furloughed federal employees at the fucking secure our border that attack this is a choice between Lord of right and wrong justice and injustice shit he sniffles like a weird scuba diving noise it is awful he's ten Oval Office addresses are a waste of time anyway we always they're just weird settings that are antiquated that are from like forty bad and then he is told to go to this room in the hotel but when he's walking down the hotel there these two people just standing in the hall may I suggest the next time there's Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer said in front of people there is absolutely no question in my mind that people would choose the more reasonable approach because forget the argument of the border the it is years ago but he's really bad guys guys guys guys before we get to that it's time now to go to the response by the grandparents of a bride yes and put their lives in danger so that we can come commit a crime or so that we can come get on welfare like that's not why people risk their lives to get to the United States and to this point about what can we imagine right like I always tell people absent as an immigrant like there's no who agriculture department just let them go back to work and we can argue about immigration until you leave this building once you looked away from Schumer's terrifying suv give a shit about the people on the border if you've been immigration if you cared about American jobs there be a difference at a policy pursued into the wall has nothing to do with any of it is getting to the good stuff now the end is the speaker of the House maybe let her take this I love Pelosi I think everyone sitting here does but like there are things that we just elected this really exciting young dynamic group as you realize that he he painted trump into a corner by saying like look we're happy to negotiate on border security but you've got to open the government I opened the government they actually doing the right fucking thing again and again I hope they're very proud of ood moment very I'm very glad that they did not get the Ad Revenue Attempt to rare dope you know it's not a black and white cookie you don't split it it's going to be bad true detective season whatever mean that's all that is good pain Americans started that was that was the inaugural that was twenty it is literally the only political weapon he has he has nothing to say about anything else of substance jokes but it's actually something he proposed paid for indirectly by the great new trade deal we have made with Mexico they were supposed to get from Ellen Game Games and do okay stop when we come back put people back to work get government services going again so people aren't hurting in this country and then we'll go to the table and we can debate border security but we're not gonNA do it with the government which is a good I mean hang on to this and so now the thing that that was gonNA happen tonight it's like maybe he declares a national emergency so he does it on his own he didn't do that by the way the networks gave him ten minutes here to say a bunch of lives snort allot stabilized snort a lot and offer more than he told offer true is that he always told before network executives who decided to give Donald Trump this time despite the fact that he's an obvious liar simply more afraid more afraid of being called Fake News Shelley Moore Capito from West Virginia Republican senator who's just like we gotta we gotTa stop this this is not gonNa can't they are not going to be able to early every issue I was gonna say I mean Dare Lemme this point in a threat of Vox reporter on immigration that his his team has
UPDATE: The Trial Continues
"Trial has been underway since November thirteen and it's unlike anything I've ever seen her for the first time ever the public is getting this unfiltered view of how chop ran his faction of the scene a little cartel. The witnesses have included some of the most powerful drug lords Mexican Columbia. They just dropped bombshell. After bombshell. We're talking about how tens of thousands of pounds of drugs have made their way from South America to Mexico to the streets of American cities. We've heard how the cartel did business corrupting every level of the Mexican government. There've been so many big revelations from just the first couple of months that it's more than we have time to talk about here today, but the trial, of course, is part of the story that we've been telling so we're gonna do two extra episodes that are basically just conversations about what's been going on every day. The courtroom is packed and not just with the press. Lately. There have been more and more tourists. You just wanna come see the spectacle and get a look at troppo in the flesh. The security is crazy intense from the moment you arrive at the courthouse. Authorities or take. Thing every precaution to make sure chop doesn't escape again got bomb-sniffing dogs and even radiating detectors to make sure nobody brings dirty bomb into the building. There aren't any cameras phones or tape recorders allowed inside the courtroom. So we can't play any testimony from the witnesses. But since I've been there almost every day in this episode. We're going to touch on the basics of what's happened. So far and talk about a couple of more interesting witnesses who we've heard from Miguel on how Vega was on the road when we went into the studio, so our producer Jesse Allah hundred contrel sat in with me. Hagan subjects so I've been following the trial a bit you, but you've been going to the trial most every day since it started. So I just wanted to ask you some questions about it. I guess let's start with opening statements. How did this trial begin? So it starts like every other criminal case. There's opening statements by the government. And by the defense, they both both sides lay out their cases for the jury. The government was pretty straightforward. They the prosecutor delivered the opening statement boil down to three things that was money drugs and murder. Those are sort of the three. Pillars that the government's case is going to be made on and they're essentially told the jury this man troppled. Guzman is the biggest drug Lord on the planet. He's the leader of a global narcotics trafficking empire on the flip side. The defense wanted to cast doubt on what the government is saying saying troppo, you know, we're not going to argue that he's totally innocent here. But he's not who he's being made out to be. I mean, what's it like in the courtroom? What's it like seeing Chapo how does he act everyday when chopper walks in? It's it's the main event of the courtroom. Everybody's waiting for that moment when he's leading by US marshals his wearing a Hugo Boss suit of some kind. He's usually either looking at his wife trying to make contact with her blowing kisses at her or he's locked onto the witness whoever's testifying against him have you ever locked eyes with them. There was one time when I had my back turned to the courtroom, and I was just making small talk with Trump his wife and could see her looking over my shoulder. And I look back and is clear that chopper had been trying to. Catch your attention. She was talking to me. And that was when I got the troppo staredown, and he's got like a full bore like this man used to steer people down intimidate them as his livelihood. And I was getting that for a moment. And it was you know, a panic. Look, what should I do my in trouble? Then he's like, wait a minute. This guy's in prison. There's nothing that he can do. But it's still nerve wracking. Even though you know, he can't he can't do anything about it. What are they charging him with? And what does he faces a potential punishment because of those charges? There's a whole range of charges mostly related to cocaine smuggling mess mugging heroin smuggling, there's some firearm charges, but the most serious charge is running a continuing criminal enterprise it essentially, he's on trial for leading the scene alot cartel. And if he's convicted faces a minimum of life in prison, maybe this is obvious. But the defense is essentially claiming that all of this is completely wrong. I mean, what is how are they approaching these charges? The defense is in a tough place here because they can't really with a straight. Face say, this guy is completely innocent the keys. He's been set up. He's not a drug dealer at all. And some of their their cross examination of witnesses. These seem to concede like look, yes. Our guy was involved in drug-trafficking, but not to the degree that the government says he is the biggest argument the defense has made is casting doubt on the cooperating witnesses who are being called to testify. There's at least sixteen people, and they're all former high level cartel people who've been caught extradited now testifying in exchange for leniency in their own cases. Chops lawyer, Jeff Lichtman is opening statement, call these people gutter human beings, he said, he told the jury that people who make your skin crawl, and what he meant by that is I think in some cases, these are literal murderers, like people who have either pulled the trigger themselves ordered hits had people killed shipped hundreds of tons of cocaine into the US people who were criminals their entire lives and telling the jury. You can't necessarily believe what these these guys are saying, even if the government is telling you, look, we know these are bad guys. But they've promised to tell the truth as part of their plea agreement. The prosecution's order called several witnesses to the stand to prove that chopper was the kingpin. They're making him out to be some of them have been really effective some of them the defense has made out to be monsters in their own right? Let's start out by talking about Pedro Flora's. One of the floors twins. Who we heard about an episode of this podcast? How did Pedro do on the stand? Pedro floor is was perhaps the most compelling witness for the government in part because he was so unlike all of the other cooperators who've testified so far mostly most notably in the is the tree is he spoke English Pedro as detailed an episode eight and his brother were at the very top of the pyramid right beneath chop. Oh, and Myo. And so they had an intimate knowledge of the organization how they got cocaine from Colombia to Mexico how that cocaine was smuggled across the border. How it got to Kogyo? And then how distributed across the entire United States. So another one of the witnesses who most intrigued me because of his insider status in the low cartel was raised them by who is Ray, raise them Bata is his Zimbabwe Garcia. He is the younger brother of L miles Umberto chops partner in the scene alot cartel Ray. R e y has in the Spanish word for king was a very interesting when it's the first cooperator who's called to testify by the government. How did raise them to end up getting involved? I think he said he joined the cartel sometime in the late eighties. He got an accounting degree in college and was working isn't count. And he said he lost his job because his his boss found out that his brother was the drug trafficker miles Imbaba. So that point miles. Hey, come work for me. Keep my books Ray as my brother takes on an integral role in the organization. Eventually, he's overseeing the Mexico City plaza or that the Mexico City territory for the cartel. L? He controls a warehouse where hundreds and hundreds of tons of cocaine are passing through he is in charge of bribing officials in Mexico City and just described incredible levels of corruption at every level of the Mexican government three hundred thousand dollars in bribes a month and chop wood Maiyo would dole out five hundred thousand dollar payments to higher level people that he wasn't involved in. So help me understand. Why exactly array in my oh, so important in the context of the trial in the opening statement, the defense made such a big deal about L choppers relationship with L Maiyo saying that Amaya is really the head of the cartel. And that troppo is basically a fog. I who Maya has set up to to take the blame and take the spotlight. So right out the gate. The government says, oh, we're going to call my brother and see what he has to say about it and his description was essentially chop in my partners. But not every witness has been as mild mannered is raise them. But a who was. Essentially an accountant who paid bribes some of the witnesses called the STAN where kingpins in their own right people who probably should have been as famous as Chapo one of these witnesses was to bet that tell me about him. Chew pates is one Carlos Ramirez audio who was a leader of Colombia's Norte Delvae cartel, which sort of came out of the collapse of the Cali cartel in the median cartel in the public bar era. Can you talk a little bit about how chew about chew bet? Interesting aspect to beta eventually had to become a fugitive and leave Columbia. He was on the run. And while he was trying to avoid capture to beta changes face, underwent, multiple plastic surgeries. He had lip implants he had surgery under his cheek bones to his chin hair implants changes is soon. Now, he looks almost like a caricature. And then he's I mean, he's also involved in like just himself personally in like. Lots of killing right ordering lots. He'll he admitted to being involved in at least one hundred fifty murders. Most of those were killings that he ordered people who work for him to commit. But in a handful of cases, those were killings a he was personally involved in. He said that he shot somebody in the face at close range in one case, some of those murders occurred in the United States there were at least four killings and the New York City area where people who are somehow involved in pages organization who were suspected of stealing or snitching who were killed by cartel hitmen in the nineties. He's described meeting chop. Oh for the first time in the early nineties. I think it was and he says he was introduced chop through Myo, and they met at a hotel Mexico and at the time to pay a was paying a percentage per shipment to get his cocaine from Columbia into the United States with the help. Skins they would pay them in product. Normally the rate was I think thirty five percent, but troppo charged forty percent which was higher than everybody else and treat like why would I pay you more? He's some faster on the best. It can get your product into the United States quicker than anybody else which made as Sureau pay you your higher rates. Sure enough. He's cocaine is in the US within a week after derives in Mexico, which was Travolta said record time which has held chop supposedly earned his nickname, El Robert, oh, the fast one that offense kind of looked at you bet as someone who exemplified this idea of like gutter human being like what what was their point where I go. How did they talk about? You betta mean pay to as we heard his he's involved in at least one hundred and fifty murders hundreds and hundreds of tons of cocaine in some senses chop who is only the middleman who's distributing pages Kook as the United States. So when she was captured in Brazil, he was extradited to the United States on the. Edition that he not receive a life sentence because their result doesn't sentence people to life in prison. So not an x-ray someone who can get a sentence in worse than their own countries. So the most time that you pay to get in prison is thirty years. He could be released after twenty five years. If you do the math, which Trump was lawyer did for the jury say this guy admitted to being involved in at least one hundred fifty murders. If you only serves twenty five years that works out to roughly sixty days per murder. How is that Justice in the US system? How is that? Right. And I think that resonated certainly everybody who is in the courtroom. What you said is that right? I had to do the math myself in checks out. Male. On. Okay, abound. Look, you couldn't they. So that was a phone call that was played during the trial came from a wiretap in may of twenty ten what you heard was troppo voice. He's in Mexico talking on the phone to a member of the guerrilla group, the FARC which at the time controlled a lot of the cocaine production, Columbia troppo, and this guerilla are haggling. The details of an eight ton cocaine deal talking about the price how they're going to get it from Colombia to Ecuador so that they could then ship it onto Mexico by boat. And is that like a smoking gun in this case, not exactly because the witness who sort of gave the background and explain what was going on. There said that the deal didn't go through to his knowledge, however in its conspiracy case you only have to prove that they were trying to ship drugs. So yes, it seems like yeah. I mean chop doesn't explicitly say the words like semi eight tons of cocaine, please. But if you read the transcript, it's it's pretty obvious that he's haggling over. You know, I'm gonna cash for two tons and we'll get the rest credit. And on and on and on where there's not much doubt about what's actually being discussed where where are we at right now, Keegan like is is it a is it a slam dunk? You know? Yes, I think at this point we've heard from Colombian suppliers who provided troppo with cocaine we heard from the Mexican cartel. People seem a little cartel people who work directly for Topo are familiar with the ins and outs of his organization. We've heard from one of the Flora's brothers who was involved in distributing the drugs all around the United States gotten sort of every level of the supply chain, the best case scenario for the defense is a mistrial where they get a Hungary or something like that. Where one juror is like this whole system is corrupt and I can't convict this guy. However, I think with the having the jury sit there for so long. They're all gonna be ready to go home at the end of this. And I think we'll get a fast conviction be shocked if it's anything.
GERO RYTO ISTORIJOS | Apie Eurovizijos dain tekstus, iverstus Pauliaus Ambrazeviiaus
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February 3, 2019: Nixed Nuclear Accords & Drug Lord Drama
"Tired of spending hundreds of dollars prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five visits any today at Zanny dot com slash CNN. This is GPS the global public square. Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world. I'm for Zaccaria. Today on the show Putin versus Donald Trump. On nuclear missiles. And lead as well. The two are surprisingly not seeing idle at all. Why is the White House with blowing from one of the most important, Cold War treaties? We're not gonna let them violate a nuclear agreement and go out and do weapons and we're not allowed to. Advice from so strongly behind the opposition in Venezuela, while Putin backs Madore, I have a great battle to talk about all of that. And more. Then El Chapo once his was the most feared name in Mexico twice. He escaped from maximum security prisons in his home country. Now, we'll tell you some of the extraordinarily stories of Brooklyn jury has learned about his life of crime. But first, here's my take this year's world economic for more than usual prompted a spirited round of elite bashing which has now become the trendy political posture on both right and left on the one side, President Trump and Fox News hosts slam the out of touch establishment that according to them as run things into the ground on the other side left-wingers decry, the billionaires and millionaires who in one authors phrase broke, the modern world underlying these twin critiques is a bleak view of modern life, a dysfunctional global order producing stagnant incomes rising, insecurity, and environmental degradation. But is this depiction? In fact, true are we doing so very badly that we need to bring back the guillotine 's on the simplest and most important measure income. The story is actually one of astonishing progress since nineteen ninety over one billion people have moved out of extreme poverty. Inequality from global perspective has declined dramatically and all this has happened chiefly because countries from China to India, do we view Opio have adopted more market friendly policies and western countries have helped them with access to markets, humanitarian assistance and loan forgiveness. In other words policies supported by these various -letes look at any measure from global perspective. And the numbers are staggering since the early nineteen nineties. The child mortality rate is down by fifty eight percent undernourishment has fallen forty one percent and on and on. I know the response some will have to these statistics the figures pertain to the world in general, but not specifically to America things might have improved for the Chinese, but not for the denizens of rich countries that sense of unfairness is surely what is fueling Trump's America first agenda mobile during lead the left traditionally concerned about the poorest of the poor has also become critical of a process that has improved the lives. Of at least a billion of the world's most impoverished people. And anyway when with things so much better in the nineteen fifties. When Jim crow reigned in America and women could barely work as anything more than seamstresses and secretaries than nineteen eighties. When two thirds of the globe stagnated under state, socialism repression in isolation, what group of elites kings commissars mandarins ran the world better than our current hodgepodge of politicians and businessmen even in the west it's easy to take. For granted. The astounding progress we live longer the air and water cleaner. Crime has plunged and information and communication virtually free economically. They have been gains, though, crucially, they have not been distributed equally, but they have been monumental improvements in access and opportunity for large segments of the populations of these western countries. People who are locked out and pushed down in the US the gap between black and white school complete. Shen has almost superior Hispanic. College enrollment has soared the gender gap between the wages of men and women has narrowed female membership in national legislatures in the advanced industrial world has almost doubled over the last twenty years. No countries allowed gay marriage two decades ago, but more than twenty do today in all these areas much remains to be done. But in each of them, there has been striking progress. I understand that important segments of the western working class are under great pressure. And they often feel ignored and left behind by the progress. Made we must find ways to give them greater economic support and moral dignity. But extensive research also shows that some of their discomfort comes from watching the society in which other groups are rising changing the nature of the world in which there enjoyed a comfortable status after four hundred years of slavery. Segregation and discrimination in America. Blacks have been moving up. After thousands of years of being treated as structurally. Subordinate women are now gaining genuine equality once considered criminals or deviants gays can finally live and love freely in many countries. The fact that these changes might cause discomfort to some is not a reason to pause nor to forget that it represents deep and lasting human progress that we should celebrate for more. Go to CNN dot com slash for read and read my Washington Post column this week, and let's get started. On fridays. Secretary of state Mike Bombayo announced that the United States was suspending its compliance with the IMF treaty. One of the most important agreements of the Cold War the treaty signed by Reagan and Gorbachev in Washington than nineteen eighty-seven covers the deployment of intermediate range nuclear weapons, those that can fly up to three thousand four hundred miles the US and this allies say a Russian weapons system, but Moscow out of compliance with the treaty and has for years. So will this bring back a nuclear arms race. Joining me. Now, Tony Blinken was a deputy secretary of state in the Obama administration and the CNN global affairs analyst, Richard Haass was the State Department's director of policy planning under President George W Bush's the president of the council on foreign relations and McCaw Voy is a senior editor the economist. She's just launched a new global Cardiff's podcast called the intelligence, Richard explained to us. Why this matters it feels like a relic of the of the of the? Cold war. Well, it is something of a blast from the past on a relic of the Cold War. But that's the last thing we necessarily want to return to for all the problems in the world today. And God knows there's enough of them for read we thought at least this one had largely been put to the past. What this does is remind us just how bad the US Russia and relationship is. It's a reminded that was China on the world scene. Some of the old agreements, which were bilateral may no longer be enough. And it reintroduces something that essentially we thought had been solved this question now of on nuclear missiles conventional missiles in Europe. And what is it looked like in Europe? This was a very contradicts used to be very controversial subject in Europe in the old days. You had you had the fears in Europe that it was going to be a nuclear war fought between Moscow and the the United States in Europe over Europe's head as it were is this is this registering as a big deal in Europe. I think given the many other strains in Europe coming onto the radar slowly. But I think these developments will definitely push it up the odor of concern here. I think you have to bear in mind from the European perspective. If you look at the divided Germany and went out thirty years after fall of the Berlin Wall, which some of us covered you saw then a your which tho those divisions will healed and that the defense and security consequences would be benign, and that we would therefore not have to can worry too much in the way that people used to go to bed sometimes in the nineteen eighty s worrying about the real specter of nuclear accident on nuclear warfare. And I think this is now a time when we're seeing those treaties which were glued in place afterwards begin to come unstuck. And it's interesting that Donald Trump has taken. This course, even in Helsinki. He recent meeting with Mr Putin. He seemed to be saying, well, we'll see we can get on. We could do business together. We have. The start treaty in place. We might as well extend bit of braggadocio in the Trump style about what he might get out of that oversee things have soured since both for domestic political reasons. But also, generally speaking, there seems to be a new for the between Moscow in Washington, and then you chill it's reflected. Here bought of what seems to me to be going on. Tony Blinken is that the administration doesn't like the old elements of the international system that their views them as again, always ways that other people cheat in the US has to follow the rules. I think about this decision on the heels of Mike Pompeo speech, which I thought was under reported where he basically said that the European Union is a vad idea. It's a German plot to dominate the continent. We would much prefer the KYW we aligned himself with the Euro-sceptics who are essentially trying to unravel the European Union, which is another element of the sort of work. Order that the United States had helped build during the Cold War. Yeah. For it. I think you're exactly right. And you know, what's so strange here is that in a sense. This is exactly the right thing to do. But in exactly the wrong way. It's right to confront Russia about its violations of the treaty profoundly wrong to pull out of the tree and response. If someone's breaking the law, you don't tear up the law you enforce it. And this is going to be a gift to Ladimir Putin and Russia, it removes every legal restraint that Russia has deploying these missiles, we get the blame instead of the actual culprit, it's likely to divide us from our allies, and it could fuel a new arms race, and it's absolutely unnecessary. There other steps we can take that would not put us in violation of the treaty. That would put the pressure on Russia to come into compliance at the end of the day for read, you know, we have a long history of these arms control agreements starting with John Kennedy every president throw bomber negotiated an accord with Russia. We went from about sixty five thousand warheads between the two countries in the mid nineteen eighties to about eight thousand today the world is a little bit safer a little bit more stable as a result this heads in exactly the wrong. All right. Hold on. Don't go away. When we come back. We're going to talk about the latest on the crisis in Venezuela who is really in charge. And I got to ask Anna about Brexit. When we come back. You know, what's not smart job boards? It overwhelmed. You had tons of the wrong resumes. Luckily, there's a smarter way to hire ZipRecruiter. Ziprecruiter's powerful matching technology finds the right people for you. And actively invites them to apply. It's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US this rating comes from hiring sites on trust pilot with over one thousand reviews and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash GPS. If you love this show show, your support to it ends up recruiter by going to ZipRecruiter dot com slash GPS. Back now with Tony Blinken, Richard Hodgson, and McEvoy Richard looking at Venezuela. One of the things I'm struck by max, Fisher, the New York Times terrific piece describing this. The wonder is that this regime has not collapsed. It is in such bad shape. The economy is in such bad shape. You know, inflation is whatever one hundred thousand percent may be much much higher. The population has been misery two to three million people have left and yet it seems to be able to stay in power. What is going on? Is it fundamentally that the army so hasn't decided which way to go more than anything else? That's the security forces the army and some of the special police forces that are still propping up the regime, you got quite a few Cubans on the ground, providing intelligence military support you got Russian and Chinese financial help which is held float the the regime, despite the fact that it's all I'll exports away down. We've in some ways kept an empower we've been there. Principal importer of their crude oil we've exported back to them refine product, also the opposition. Lastly, almost you have to speak about a plural. You're finally now seeing a more concentrated opposition. But until very recently there was no serious alternative. So things have come to a head. What we don't know for read quite honestly is how long they could stay here and where you began thinks exactly right. More than anything else will be where the hearts and minds of the Venezuelan military are Tony when you look at this is it is it fair to say that the Trump administration has handled this reasonably well. You know, I I always worried that it turns into a US versus Venezuela, which it hasn't. They have enlisted the other Latin American countries the Canadians. The Brits, what what you know? A would you agree and B what should they do now? Yeah. I do agree for it. I think they have today it handled it. Well, I would applaud the administration. Senator Rubio has played a big part in this in actually Rowling countries in the region to put pressure on majo- who is illegitimate to legitimize the only democratically elected institution in Venezuela and to bring other countries along. That's a good thing. Here's the truck the tough part what I don't see at least so far is an actual strategy to advance a peaceful transition in Venezuela and a kind of plan b if Madero Dixon and lashes out that's what we need. There is a comprehensive approach that you can take here to continue to increase the. Pressure on the regime, the families making sure they can't come here anyone profiting from corruption reach out to the military to make clear that it has a future in Venezuela engaged Madero to tell him. He has a way out and he's not stuck in a corner. Bring in other countries, you have to engage the Chinese the Russians and the Cubans who are propping up the regime, so there's a strategy here. We haven't seen it yet. I hope it's there. Yeah. I often feel like with with with Donald Trump and negotiations. He's he needs to be reminded that the other side has to be able to find some way to say that they win otherwise unlikely to have a successful negotiations. And let me ask you. I've got you know, it seems like right now the British bottom and just basically against everything the it is against a hard Brexit. It is against a soft. Brexit it is against a second referendum, and it is against the prime minister's own plan negotiation. Would it be fair to say, and that Theresa May has bored us off? Two weeks, but the Europeans are unlikely to give much so two weeks from now really Theresa May will either have boulder the have rabbit out of a hat or perhaps government will fall. Then the reason this is a bit of the political thriller. Eight is it's not just any two weeks. This is two weeks with Brexit looming date of March the twenty nine in which case if no deal is reached, and there's no extension then we simply leave without a deal, which would be chaotic. I mean, I'm not even the most end of the political spectrum about what it might mean. But it would certainly be incredibly difficult. It would be very very bad mood. Indeed and Europe towards the UK. There would be difficulties of movement of goods trade services. Also things would freeze up. So it looks like a that. If that happened they would have to be an extension, but the question is really what does she think she can get now she may think that the closer the Europeans move towards Marsha Twenty-nine, which is highly. Inconvenient for them. They also have very difficult elections that had little populists looking strong in these European parliamentary elections that they may agree put pressure on Dublin to rewrite the woods around all the transitional nature of that complicated but essential backstop agreement they might, but it doesn't look like it at the moment. And right now, it's looking like trees may against institutional Europe Brits like to be the underdog. They didn't want to be the underdog forever. Thank you. Thank you. All fascinating conversation next on GPS. The US economy has had some good news of late, but the outlook in China, the world's other economic superpower is not so rosy. We'll tell you why. And this big and surprising reason why when we come back. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Zanny dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frames styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus, there's any offers prescription sunglasses that incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N N, I dot com slash CNN. Now for a what in the world segment? Finally, the unthinkable has happened. China has slowed down the GDP numbers came out last month. China's growth in two thousand eighteen slowed to six point six percent, the low straight in almost thirty years. So when trade talks between the US and China this week began Beijing experience something new vulnerability bought of China's economic slowdown is perfectly natural. It has now middle income country cannot sustain double digit growth, but there's more than that. According to the economist nNcholas Lardy in a fascinating new book, the state's strikes back. He points to the astonishing rise in the subsidies, granted, China's unproductive state owned sector. China has a long history of massive publicly owned companies in everything from steel to electric city to telecommunications forty-three percent of them all lost. Making when China reformed its economy in the nineteen eighties. It built a profitable private sector from scratch that sector is responsible for the majority of the country's economic growth and new jobs, but under Xi Jinping, the country has turned away from private companies and focused again on building up state owned companies and twenty sixteen private firms held just eleven percent of new loans and state firms had eighty three percent, that's a huge change from just six years ago. State owned firms are not a sound investment Lardy estimates that privileging state firms and other such policies costs China's much as two percentage points of GDP growth on average per year from two thousand and seven to two thousand fifteen. China has gotten into the habit of bumping money into the economy at any hint of a downturn. According to Ruchir Sharma, the chief global strategist at Morgan Stanley, in many cases, the state is both the borrower and the lender. So the money can move freely after the financial crisis China issued a massive stimulus valued at over twelve percent of GDP, according to the financial times the stimulus kept growth up. But it led to a huge surge in debt, the proportion of China's debt to GDP is now two hundred and fifty three percent extraordinarily high for a developing country much of that debt belongs to corporations including private and state owned firms, and this is dangerous because debt is a ticking time bomb, it will likely lead to a long-term slowdown or recession possibly both. Xi Jinping's government has promised to contain China's ballooning debt, but faced with the downturn and more bad news of negotiations with the US fail. Policymakers are once again, debating, the reflexive move. Injecting the economy with easy money. There's a reason to do. So that has nothing to do with the economy state owned firms are organs of the communist party's control of the society in the ongoing trade talks, the US will press China to reduce subsidies to state firms because they crowd out foreign competition. If China's only aim were growth, the US might get somewhere, but as the Beijing based journalists Michael Schulman writes in the Atlantic the fight between the United States and China is not just a spat about tariffs. It is a contest of two very different national ideologies if China's doubling down on state control at the expense of growth, the two sides may find very little in common next are. GPS almost three months ago, the trial of the most notorious drug kingpin in the world began as the prosecution presented escapes. There have been extraordinary revelations about the world of drug running those stories come back. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. Joaquin Guzman loves tunnels, the Mexican king been better known as chop. Oh, use them for running his drugs from Mexico to the US. He also used them to escape from authorities who are hot on his tail and once he was Scott he used Donald again to escape from prison. This is all according to testimony at the traffickers trial with just went to the jury of the end of the week Keegan Hamilton, a vice reporter was in court just about every day for the eleven week trial. Welcome thanks for having me the tunnel. I think most of us know about El Chapo because of the tunnel. It's breathtakingly ambitious tunnel. I mean, tell the whole story of how did he how could you possibly build a tunnel like that way, which comes out directly under the shower, the one place where the t the camera couldn't see what he was doing. So this being troppo there several tunnels the one that you're talking about was in his prison cell in twenty fifteen. In that instance, it was a mile long tunnel that went from a biscuit shack outside of the prison straight up into the cell of his prison into the shower. Now, we heard testimony that other inmates were hearing rumbling underneath a prison and complaining about it. So clearly the prisoners authorities knew something was up, and you see the video of the day of the escape, and I'll troppo gets up from his bed and makes his bed up real nice and needs puts on his shoes walks over the sour looks around ducks down disappears. And then what we know is he ducks down and there's a motorcycle right waiting for the tunnel. Yes. This mile long tunnel had a motorcycle that was mounted on a rail system. They think it was used to move, tools and dirt in and out of the tunnel. But we heard testimony that he gets into the tunnel. And his brother-in-law is waiting for him on this motorcycle chop hops on the back rides off to freedom. And then once he escapes the other end is flown off into the mountains and seen alot. We know. What about his extraordinary activities, even while he was imprisoned? He was sending letters to his mistresses associates. How do we learn all this? So while he was in prison in two thousand fourteen he sent handwritten letters to his associates one of them was to his right hand, man. Giving him instructions on collecting drug debts collecting, heavy weapons, like rocket propelled grenades that he was owed and was sort of trying to pull together the pieces of of his organization after he'd been captured. He was also sending letters as you said to his mistress. Who was a state lawmaker Encina Loa giving her instructions about, you know, buying drugs for him. He also met with his wife in prison who we heard testimony was integral in plotting his escape, and he was able to talk on a secure phone system while in prison, how did that work. So the secure phone system. Predated his time in prison, but it's one of the more incredible aspects of the story one of his Colombian cocaine suppliers recommend guy who's basically a systems administrator. Or an IT guy to create an encrypted phone network accustom network where all of the calls and communications would supposedly be secure. And it was for a time. We heard an FBI agent say they couldn't crack this network until the approach the IT guy instead work for us as an informant he gave them essentially, the keys to the kingdom and the FBI was able to record wiretap dozens of phone calls. We're troppled with candidly discussing the drug business as if he's not being overheard. Because he thought this network was secure. What what did you learn about the sort of business model of the drug cartel? The that he read what was sort of the most interesting thing about it in a lot of ways the ceelo cartel is like a multi-national corporation, the headquarters is in Kuria concierge Loa, and there's essentially a board of directors which Chapo could be sort of viewed as the CEO, but they have partners in Colombia who are supplying cocaine who are supplying chemicals to make meth. They're there. Vertically integrated business that is centrally ships products from one country to the next that destination for the most part is the United States where they're moving cocaine heroin methamphetamine and to a lesser extent marijuana, but that for a long time was one of the main cash crops. What did you learn about the Mexican government in the trial? How complicit is it? And what level does that complicity go? There have been some shocking revelations about corruption in Mexico everybody. I think knew that corruption was pervasive in Mexico, but one witness testified that the former president of Mexico and penny NATO took a one hundred million dollar bribe from El Chapo. Beyond that, there's been testimony that virtually every level of the government from local beat cops to state cops to the federal police to the attorney general's office the military even INTERPOL in Mexico was accused by one witness of taking bribes. And without that that corruption the drug trade would not be possible. So lonely all that you did about the drug business on this drug cartel? What does your perspective on where the drugs come in from? I asked us because of course, President Trump says we need to those border wall to stop the drugs. But this most recent drug bust suggests that all the stuff is coming in through border checkpoints through on trucks or buses is that your sense, we've heard eleven weeks of testimony in the course of this trial. And I don't think a single shipment of drugs that we heard about would have been stopped by the border wall. The vast majority of drugs troppo drugs, anybody's drugs from Mexico are come. Through ports of entry concealed in vehicles. Or in shops case in tunnels that went underneath the border this fennel bus that you talked about something like two hundred and fifty plus pounds offense and all of the largest festival Boston customs and border protection. History. Those drugs were hidden in a semi truck. I think it was carrying cucumbers. There was a false floor in the truck. That's the by far the most common method that the traffickers using to get drugs across the border hidden in vehicles crossing through ports of entry. So I if there's one lesson to be taken away from this. It's invest in infrastructure at ports of entry those there's needs to be more staffing, better technology to scan vehicles and to make sure that that people who are crossing through where they're supposed to be crossing are scan properly not not building a wall in remote stretches of the border. Do you think that El Chapo, we'll just be replaced by somebody else or was he unique into spent some they'll troppo already has been replaced by somebody else. As far as we know his sons and his brother are now running the faction of the cartel that he used to lead and his longtime partner L miles Imbaba remains free in Mexico is still running the solo cartel. So as long as there is demand for drugs from the richest country in the world, somebody south of the border will provide the supply, El Chapo, himself said as much one video that was shown to the jury his interview with Rolling Stone. He says as long as there's consumption there will be sales. Pleasure to have your thank you so much. Thanks for having me coming up next to debate. You heard my take at the top of the show where I sort of defended the world's elites while. My next guest says I'm all the. The right sheets can take your sleep and your style to the next level with Boll and branch. The upgrade has never been more affordable. Every set is crafted from one hundred percents organic cotton. They get softer and softer over time. That's why they have thousands of five star reviews and even three US presidents have Boll and branch sheets. Try them for thirty nights. And if you don't love them, send them back for a full refund. Go to bollandbranch dot com today for fifty dollars off your first set of sheets, plus free shipping with promo code CNN to spelled B O L L, andbranch dot com. That's bollandbranch dot com, promo code CNN too. A simmering battle of ideas was brought to the front burner by doves last week all the world's billionaires and millionaires and other leads doing that bar to fix the world. Or are they responsible in large part for many of the world's ills at the top of the show. I gave you my take on this debate. If you must go to my Twitter page, Twitter dot com slash free Zaccaria and look for the pin tweeted the top. But let's now bring in a writer who will surely disagree with me a nun Gary her thus road, winners take all the elite charade of changing the world. So I let me give you a chance to explain Incan in brief what is the thesis of your book? The themes of my book is that an it's a book about the United States. That we live in this era defined by paradox on one hand, it's an age of extraordinary elite generosity of the kind. You see when people go to Davos and do stuff around Africa and do stuff around malaria and yet the second half of the paradox is in the United States. This has also been a time of rising inequality has made it the most unequal time one hundred years a period in which the bottom half of the country has basically not benefited from any of the astonishing technological and global developments that have made your in my life and many other people's lives so much better. So what I'm struck by? I think you've painted an accurate picture. The changes that are causing this widening inequality, basically, globalization technological revolutions happening all over the world inequality within societies is growing everywhere. Inequality around the world as a whole is actually dramatically dropped because of the rise of hundreds of millions of people in China in India. But there are countries that I presume you think handled this better they tax the rich more they have fee. You know, they they celebrate entrepreneurs less they have bureaucrats deciding how to allocate resources better, I'm thinking of places like France and Germany, and they have widening inequality. They have the same sense of being dispossessed. They have the same tensions that are being produced. So why is it that you think that the that the US system is producing these problems? Isn't it much more likely these are very broad structural changes sweeping the world inequalities rising in India dramatically. Right. So if those broad structural changes what the billionaires and million as look I share your some of your aesthetic distaste for the way in which they they boost themselves, south promote. But what they seem to be doing. The best of them are trying to respond to these problems. As best. They can governments are also trying but nobody has an answer. And so the problem persists. I would I would agree and disagree with that. You're right that inequalities widening and a lot of places, but I think this your talk of forces is really important because I think that's been a very dominant rhetoric of our age that the things that are happening because of these big forces and one thing I think it's important to remember is forces actually hit these forces hit places very differently. So yeah, you've you've widening inequality in Europe also. But if you work twenty nine hours a week at a retailer in Europe as opposed to thirty right? You don't have are drastically different level of healthcare. The way you do in this country. And that means that when the same forces of China and automating hit Germany. They don't lead to some people going bankrupt or dying of preventable diseases the way we do in this country. So forces are important, but democratic choices around how to respond to those forces are also important, and what I believe has happened is that the billionaire's as you say have. Realized that we live in this age. They're not dumb. They're very smart. They make a lot of money because they actually understand the world. They understand these trends, they understand rising anger. And they've in some ways tried to get out in front of it by promoting forms of change that are meant to address these issues, but meant to address them in winner friendly ways, so lean in good maternity leave which is a little too expensive for them. Not good charter schools great higher taxes to fund equal inadequately funded public schools for everybody. Not so great. But more broadly. I guess my point to you would be what what is the better system. You know, I grew up in a country. See the difference between us I think is we look alike, but you grew up in shaker heights, Ohio, which is you upper class suburb of I grew up in India. I I grew up in a country where it wasn't billionaires millionaires were treated like dirt business was was treated as the second class citizen. It was the politicians and bureaucrats who made all the decisions about how to allocate resources that didn't work out. So. Because the politicians and bureaucrats turned out to be as venal and egotistical and corrupt and hypocritical as the businessman Newport point too. So I I look at our system. And I said first of all the has been astonishing progress would be what's your I think there's there's many places in the world that are doing particular things better that we can learn from. I don't think there's one model and people talked about the Nordic model. I mean, if America had America consisted of four million blonde people with a relatively small number of immigrants. I think we find it easier to do a safety net of that model. I don't think there's there. There's enormous wrecked. Enormous anger because maybe the problem isn't, you know, a lot of the problem isn't about economics. It's about the fact that they owned like Brown people coming into the country fair. So you said what can we do? I think we can start by -nology as you as you said that we do live in this age of extraordinary and kind of transformative forces that are not going anywhere, globalization. The rise of India and China, which is this enormous historical development that doesn't affect on everybody. I mean, these these are multiple anomalies happening too many community. Same time and elevating some people. Some people are on the right side of all of those shifts and some people on the wrong side of most of those shifts in somewhere in between. I think we haven't had public policy keep up with changing world. I think the problem for many for large segment of Americans their status within society has changed with the rise of all kinds of new groups, and that you're not gonna fix with a shiny new tax. That is a deep ben-zion about that place in the world. And I I really that's a that's a different problem. And I, but I have done much reporting those communities, I can tell you you go to very white communities where there is that anxiety. Right. And there's that resentment, and there's that sense that this country used to be mine. And now I'm sharing that is true, and that Israel, and I don't have a lot of I'm not going to stop the country changing to to to sue. Emotion. However, you give those same people a good school where they can feel confident that their kid is prepared to the twenty first century, you actually, give them a healthcare system. Whether or not sitting around the kitchen table looking at bills every night wondering if they're going to be able to make it another year, you actually give them a kind of work in re-skilling and training program. So that when globalization hits they see a path forward. Fair voting consistently against all the correct politicians who advocate those programs vote. I think they were solid need to be better at it. All right. This is a fascinating conversation. If terrific book delighted to have you on. Thank you for pleasure. We will be right back. Hey, it's Howard Beck. And I've got Jonathan Wasserman on Bleacher reports the full forty eight with lava fall and Tatum. They're going to be good player. They're not say Murray is a good player Alonzo getting there, but in terms of upside in terms of our guy you want to build around ineffective. I mean, I'll take Zion all day. The next fifteen years, I think is the most attractive actual quieter. So check out the full forty eight now on the Bleacher report half or subscribe at apple podcasts. At the heart of the crisis in Venezuela is a clash between two branches of government as its two presidents proclaim their power, but another nation's president found himself at odds with the judiciary in recent days. It brings me to my question moyer's in which nation boycotted the courts this week was that Nigeria Japan bellarusse or Columbia. Stay tuned. We'll tell you the correct answer. My book of the week is crude nation how oil riches ruin Venezuela by Raul guy goes this briskly written book nicely explains how the oil curse has worked in Venezuela. Especially in the charges era. Some of the greatest reserves of petroleum in the world have been stolen mismanaged so badly that the result is the world's worst, hyper inflation corruption and now collapse now for the last look a debate. Over respecting the national anthem bring a new not ahead of this weekend's Super Bowl but halfway around the world in Hong Kong, and that's semi autonomous city. The Chinese national anthem frequently draws boos at soccer matches. So a new Bill introduced last week would punish anyone who intentionally insults that patriotic song with up to three years in prison the Bill which will likely pass the pro. Beijing legislative council is seen as part of a larger move to reduce dissent in the semi autonomous region. Already. In Hong Kong pro-independence party has been banned. Activists arrested opposition candidates barred from office and free press. Imperilled why recall the months-long pro-democracy umbrella movement in two thousand fourteen well China felt it was a threat to the status quo and began to push back honk congas noticed a recent poll found that sixty six percent of those surveys identify as Hong Kongers compared to only thirty two percent who identifies Chinese when respondents whereas the importance of various identities Hong Kong came first and citizens of the People's Republic of China came dead. Last right behind Chinese. In fact, it is the lowest of the what Chinese has ranked on this measure since those umbrella movement protests ended in December twenty fourteen this distaste with the mainland was stronger in younger, Hong Kongers. And of course, trying to change soccer fans behavior is unlikely to help with this. The answer to my GPS challenge. This week is a Nigeria after president Muhammadu Buhari suspended the highest Justice in the nation for allegedly failing to publicly declare his assets, the Nigerian bar association called for a boycott critics have argued that Buhari violated the independent judiciary with the suspension, and that it was politically motivated that you see Bahari is gearing up for a highly contested election just a few weeks and any disputes or abnormalities could find their way to the supreme court led by that Justice already the EU and the US have decried the suspension of the chief Justice and the main opposition party temporarily suspended its campaign in protest. Thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. I will see you next week. Aside file number d are two nine five seven seven one the unsolved murder of short blackout. You may have heard of the black Dahlia it was the name given to Elizabeth short. A woman who is savagely killed in Los Angeles in nineteen forty seven her body was cut in half and posed to horrifying effect. Five thousand dollars for information leading the arrest in connection of killer. The crime scene photos are out there, but a little warning, you can never unsee them. It's part of the reason that more than seventy years later, it's still the most famous unsolved murder in American history. Black Dahlia stories have been told for decades my sister, and I have heard them since we were little because we were told that the killer was part of our family. You think you can at the perfect murder? Someone listening to this program is going to bring you Justice. Her body was his canvas and his scalpel was his paintbrush. That's our goal. And for twenty years. He's been uncovering evidence luring him closer to the devastating truth. It was just like one of these kind of flash moments. This is it this is why he did it. It was the first time. I started thinking like my father. This isn't just a black Dahlia story, this is the story of family. Our family and it's terrible past. When I found my birth. Mom. She told me her father, which would be my grandfather had an I q higher than Einstein. And that he had been investigated in the black Dahlia murder so about by his time ready to drop dead, the more and more. I learn about growing up. I just thought. Wow, I'm from a really dark family got a lot of things that I don't even know about their cycle and their social paths, and I tried to figure out which one my mother was it turns out that murder is just one of the dark Odell secrets open a couple of closets. Go back a generation or two and you're gonna find some pretty shocking things for the first time ever. All of us are ready to tell our story the real story of the hotel family role. Crazy, but everybody is my name is Yvette. And I'm Russia, and we're proud to bring you the new podcast documentary series root of evil. The true story of the hotel family and the black Dahlia production of thirteen originals a division of cadence. Thirteen in partnership with TNT coming February thirteenth. Subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts.
Lipp Selects: Goin' Troppo
"This is lip media podcast. Now. Runaway Brought best. Along Speed roasting you slowly in a waiting for Telstra, fruit? Hats. Just. Like Austrailia story but sexy. All add with me on these on. Pants today and gone up the road north of the day came banding every three months plus was toward the patient spot crocodile North Queensland. About this. This is this is a complete accident I'm sorry it's Amanda I'm so sorry. Someone trump to look behind the camel. Way. Gone Shop. If you miss lost episode wherein chilly Crofts Cow. Amazon who have been here for a while now I think it's coming up on seventeen hours. Now she's gone quiet. We keep saying shelly mix drive-thru chilly. Drop us at the Golden. Arches just on the cone on. You haven't turned ahead in awhile interest taken down her review. Mir. So we can't even see if. Feels I come in a bit of Sally Shelley. What's going on the Dungeons Jones will do, but seriously, it only takes like like nine hours to get from. Byron to Sydney. So I don't know what's going on especially in a zoom zoom. Chilly, we're all we this isn't. McDonald's. This is the border cafe. Where are we? Corcoran. then. That's Disgusting Shelley Oh talk burn the town on the border of South Australia New South Wales. I've heard great things about this place. You could just dropped those embroiled the hill. All I'm thinking of Melvin. The border cafe the border caffeine. Never thought, I'd be here the big Mac. Especially during coronavirus here on the borders are a bit of the whole topic, but he's must be the loop the loop loophole to get through to South Australia. You travel time when he go. Hey Shelley leave us behind Jack what are we going to do? I'm. We'll have we had been bought a cafe. Food, we'll try to figure out a plan about getting high guy. What's on the menu fish fingers? I haven't had those knees come I. I haven't last night ham cubes. Jackson chase onion. In a biscuit I haven't had one since two thousand full carry. Excuse me. A couple of those city donkey slots keyboard a cafe yet many visitors. fucking sack. Okay. We'll have one fish fingers. One keep having an to. Leaves. Why Well and he that he said to dat who be get to biscuits, cheese and onion. Yes, thank you so much. He's dial. Right on clear just table. Anderson table what put the James Monks on to right. Jack why are you standing today and not sitting? Oh you got a bit of a lumpy. Bomb, and if there's any place to confess it, it's the border cafe but what happened to you? Know. Who Actually I think I've just been eating fishing is on for some reason book I've googled it and I've I've consulted with a few friends and apparently it's normal to get him roots. At this age I should have bought dining cushion I don't think I could sit down anything toilet shape to the moment because it is truly like I'm trying to I feel like it's like childbirth bought. A style yes. This is the childbirth childbirth gay style sunny twenty, I left many what? These Beth gay style just just like childbirth actually. Get a kick out of it. All you get is maybe like the bloody lump take a shit but that's like that's as good as I can hope really. So is it a big sheet? So a whole about holes it usually star-shaped this educational for anyone who doesn't know what a Henry's is yet to get one seventy, five percent of the population here in the Hutch Imagine. Like edges of Your Hall. Get a bit lumpy but not lumping away. It's just feel soul Mike you thank you being around the town offer. Eventually, it's it's essentially just like a buck people and makes it very steny. It down like you've had a lovely spicy for Jada. Kt's Day let me tell you I have as struggling as nice. Slowing down I'm waiting to mine because I walked too hot and I got a sensitive little remits guys. That's how it started to me to be careful I think to hard. The ones who the hottest somehow the ones who get worse which just seems wrong to me really suck when you clean you too much all the enamel comes up, and then there's people elect specially men in my father that sort of get like one square toilet paper this Dab they talk shaking I. Think I'm perfect. Good. Really leaning twenty minutes geeze on. Someone's bed. Them is going have to clean that all. got. My sad overriding today for that's inherent. Is this I arctic known this little pitchy pinch that goes all the way from my but to my leg thing Dean's list I've never felt that in my live. Oh, you never know what's next. I. Vomited in Gareth Bedroom on Friday chat. On. Him. Let's not. Oh, you did end I yelled at someone for not with me the potty. Honestly you lost my trekkies my jump on my head, my sunglasses MOG boots woke up making home. Players who change really good. That's good. But honestly, what else are you GonNa like people? If they get a chance to charlie x break the rules in two, thousand, twenty by making out with someone, they should take that opportunity I was watching eight love pry five times in a row with Julia Rowlett from that lovely Spanish. Dude. Now, like she's right, the Jackpot is having someone kidding uranium knowing. And I right Extra moisturizer independent then to give that Ju- look you know what I mean. That's pathetic. WHO HAS A Just some Baris- house night. Never. Met Him All. He left tonight Yeah and then I got in the spot Tyson? ISE Soup so I've smoked never was looking for him if you're three hours apparently tell you why I tried to give myself up Jack so you know I thought our fucking credit card cow top-shelf gatorade water that's sorry I. No, you should have to rocker in July. Eighteen. gatorade absorbs into your muscles twice as fast. I had three years essentially just inject yourself they. They said I was speaking tongues talking about Julie. Bishop. Like. She was a part of the outright Ku Klutz Klan went to the Asia show boroughs a eastern show back couldn't make it out yelling at people like I'll pulling papers head vomited everywhere, and then I wasn't me it was Gareth. Gareth get into the snow. Yell at them to play Lady Gaga on the disco lots on smoke bomb almost GONNA call the police. That's amazing. A why cop nine memory. Mental Scott Coming and going I just clean up. and. You didn't either in blamed it on me and I've never been spoken to by Gareth Lot. The relationship like down on him back and I said, we'll conquer your house because that house might met. I may terribly uncomfortable said, you know what? It was a privilege to say someone of such calibre have a blowout. Hot and Trendy I felt my inbox will be full. No one does matter. anyways has loved going great. Yeah I I've been trying to lower my standards as we enter the second wave current events quickly like let's let's just like literally get into a long term relationship with someone who can just do by tomorrow. Let's do together. Soviet lowering my standards and like going off to the guys that match with every time you know what I mean the same. Phnom looks good in Denim. scruffy on on the. Great like I. To And like nothing against these guys. Off My interest. But I've just been like come on. We're looking down at slits may top yes. The long haul and message this guy intend to was like like artery maps being like, oh This. Is Like the fiftieth time we've matched he we maybe we should do something about it something along the lines of thought, and he comes back and goes. Well, the world is falling apart right now. So maybe not. True like like. What, what are we why you unto? Matching with me why did you actively match when you know once you have sex may actually. He started the conversation with me. He said, hey, how you going and then I said Hey I hate fucking talking tinder. I just want to go on a date. Let's get me to. And then I was like come on let's go on a diet quickly like what was the allow good one in apartments. And then it was just not the world's falling apart right now. Do you think? Down that's why I'm talking to you. Do you think I'm out here in Caulk Burn? Richly dropped off from the silly by shelley craft shopping code cubed hand up. To cool it down especially standing up and I'm stuck sitting down because of these Ping Ping Ping going down my left leg naked well. What's your name Dow? How do we get out of pain? Over finished my meal. My Ham Cubes Very Jeloni. Your hospitality has been amazing. AM feeling dry the Mazda three was not good and hey, can't even sit the fuck down. So how are we getting out? Try the body rose. Trying all the wide A. Thoughts it may. Oh, where do we buy tickets for the train? He jazz boil down there. Around the corner. A team. I can't come on Jack. You're walking like a penguin you want Hawaii Mambo from happy fateful. Under Rab`A. TRAE, which is. Also good. A. Bachelor go fucking find them in an episode seeing 'cause I'm sick to death of us not knowing wearing the fucking bachelor galleys. That was lyrics like her and Savage Garden Obama Savage Garden. searcy. Okay. We'd better leave. Before Audrey gets the fucking sheets. I didn't see any tickets stole. So maybe we should just dump the applegate's in Paul Yeah. I mean look just a little rare track in timber day. Do you feel that. vibrating I think there's a train coming around the corner WHA-. Luck because we can mean hours and it's getting. Dingo is I meal something. says. It's minus three at the moment. So we'd better get. We'd better get. We'd better get. We'd better hop on quick small. Oh it looks like one of those industrial Freddie minorly mining. Dryness. Train, right. Try some tough has no sign of it's slowing down Asia we might have to. Do some cross. Jack up see some hundred, five run weekly unfinanced. A little running she'd hanging out. Russian. Just drag. Ready. Re quickly took. OFF From. That's my show. It's I think it's stinky. Skin. Oh in with textiles what is where we've known off and Textile Mills Textiles Julie, Bishop rule everywhere, helicopters wave and this comfort. Oh Gosh it is comfy but it smells licey. But biggest got chooses and we did not pay this weights won't get back to Sydney because you've got hemorrhoids I've got SCIATIC. We don't have any money or anything. Give nothing now person but let's just get a few days and then we can wake up and. We'll be back home in Sydney town. Yeah. I guess the loss dubs Sidney. Guests Bay must be all right. Nine in the morning that it takes from flower power. Boy spoi- capitalist-style. Allied. Lacy. Racks. Cash. Fact Data He. Joins. What Jill you. We were sleeping on the wool look. We're all we all were in Sydney Brittany. No one lodge flat flatwork. Thank you. Bought Myself. One word straight into my eyes place plans. For. What do you mean? I call? Where are we don't see Sydney Porn Star Wars. You Safety. What is this? Skis me. Boggling We're out we. The pair pile if you bought. Kitchen. Miss Slinky Ibis CALC you're pretty. TAME. Thank you. Wear Fuck you taught. Draw. Its hot dry and called same time like the sand whipping me in the face left right center update. Little round. Hey. Let's try going. Great we stay on. Whatever He was very let but with five. Not Lico Finale. Not On that Brian is quite ruby. There's a sign of that. Let's just go to okay. Let's could junk yacht but like a fashionable junkier like one that Morada pirata will do a fashion shoot at you know what I'm saying. He's about. What happened to them copying company this young designers. Plus. Where in where in? Petey goodbye what's that the pata or read the fine? I'll just whether cup of patted dust. Does. Oh. There's a little paragraph here about it. That's handy. For us, people who have no idea that we are welcome to Haiti the whole capital of South Australia. Capital that sounds like a fucking hemorrhoids in the whole capital of South Australia I feel triggered and Kinda just WanNa get away from his sign. Oh, these town supplies ninety, five percent of the world's oil pools and apples can only be found in south, Australia these being the top town you mean, this is where they make all the costs that kept me from to be in the morning. I pulled Jill. Jill of Australia. The JOL OF STRATEGY YUP ones I hold of my body the hall of your Android. Darnall now. Okay. Well, what are we gonNA do now either? The Jackpot and find a jewel sell it get high. To dry out to death I, feel like a little cell Tana wouldn't mind drying out to death of this point. So let's just let's just head on and giving me very much. We. Really hot though see what Bay Krill Stu. Didn't in mouth piece in Shetland swayze's math AP's initiate squeeze it in your mouth. Can you just piss in my mouth because I want to get my shadow pc took away working It's too. Dizzy. Whiskey right now. I. I. Can't tell if it's a mirage. And in Pinochle. waterslide week it looks like black town wettin vials. Guard Was a mirage. junkyards. Jack this people people hit. It's US please help us with be walking out here for nine and a half minutes and I always pissing jacks now but I don't know how to Piss up. With desperate. Desperate shade and shelter. What's your name? Dug a hole your name? You're literally drilling a hole into the ground right now. Did you name ESL? Frenzy on dial. Digging I do. Deep I'm DAS-. But the Fella's me fuck NOCCO. What are you doing out here? He's doing a true crime podcast about the missing woman go. On David, a law pickle rigs and getting Rhodesian the. Please help me I am a lost TACTICA. L.. House he swear you from Little Romanian. Blue. So. What are you guys doing? We're digging big gaping holes. Just digging a few new room role on top of each other in this I'll. You spend the die living on lack. The doll. And a little bit of. I told you about that. Stop, copying me Dave. So you, you guys all live here together in this whole and you find the Opel together during the day in the not yet. What happened, to pajamas Sunday. SOCAL is. Seventy. Five I mean the sign, the wings He. On Line, the elements shelly eleven am it was a different in Europe. The two, thousand and once. Well. From one millennial to another. Do you guys know we could get some rest or maybe maybe just some shade some some more preferably somewhere that is an underground like I'm not all about this article mining situation can't sit down. He's gotTa Gaping Asshole and my sciatic nerve is person into the buying I have to stand at the bar has to sit at the boss of perfectly we'd like a toll with high store. Want to have to take hall. Okay. We'll come inside I guess John Leeson Will. Cool you guys leave underground. We take a peek inside your house plays just a little pay. All. He's All which she Will sold bitch. have. Fries. Missiles. Hey That was fucking me, Jack. We. By like a Weed A. I'm like slice off five. Yeah. I was going to I didn't WANNA say because I was like am I being judgy. But I just didn't get the VIBE plate. I was gone and did you see the bottom? If that was like. I didn't know if it was like recent or like new. I thought it was like one of those dull and get that for the pin. When you sledding As real sort blink a few times. Night everyone. Walking towards US where are you? Before he's worried, have fun in the Dato at home as. Me Let's run someone. Get Away Karen derosa gifts is coming for us. How? Actually. pulsing. Pop back in. My Hammer and put back in. Oh No I think it just came out man. was a bit like fish. Well with fallen in down a hall again it's cool. I was GONNA die of dehydration. Yeah. They do it here in capability. This is a dae-pol as well as the opening up the talk at the sky looks like the Marine it signs on oil I can just see a little. Limor of light. Oh got the flash. At. Time if I told you. Fundraising was rail. One. Long these halls bane he. Fresh to me hey, let me just taste it. Warm. Son Or someone Banyan. Did. You hear that. Someone there. It's just us. We promise not heater Rub Your Hall. All we wanted to find out why back home You might fun to pay. Fund. that. Very date. DOSSO. Waxed also. On my how? Just WanNa just WANNA. Lay My oth- whole alarm for a minute that. Okay. Do you. All woman of this whole you'll the mall does that mean we've won twenty five thousand dollars correctly identified you. Talk. CHILLY FEES I in Lima. Bean for a long long time Downing Dopp Gang, damp legal holy theme doing one a lot to do in the land of to do it. So you're telling us that you're not the tries and mall on Channel Seventy series the mall. silly. And disappointing. and. How. We can get out if he or she you gonNa hack us to death as well. I wouldn't be surprised if this just get it. All my God. Look Jack it's the biggest or pull on earth it shine. Machines. My precious aquiline like Violet Opel nations don't vary one inch mind but twenty twelve Galaxy Kat soft dejected Campbell. Phil down very home only always fail. Thomas Sundays and friendly friends Dan mean to assimilate and all. The various now beautifully buckling. It sounds like it's spring to me at site. Beautiful. Can He like a mermaid a siren song. Where did you find these small woman? Where did you find these? Wow I just WANNA. Touch it. Shocked me touch you annoying little bargain. Just insist I was a muggle climb not to your blood. And for one also like that's like quiting the last. Name, maybe someone has. Vascular bear something that you've got to build a bath. Wearing last crop. The. The that cakes locking guy kind rawlings twenty. So you'll sane more women. You have not seen the sun. You have literally algae and barnacles growing your body just like the Hegna, an checks us and the SCIATIC nerve pinching in my phone Stephen Bussey bitch and you have not seen the sun because this oil is curse and it's kept you underground is that what you're saying you don't. WanNa. Leave this I'll mark my God. You poor thing. Sorry I wish we could embrace but I'm allergic to pond water. And orthodoxies. Steve You know what I made capital. Say Kost. Said I. DO believe in Fate Mall Woman and Jack. How. Can we help with stuck here? Anyway we may as well do some good anything to participate in JK ROLLING NARRATIVE I'm ready to win this battle. Saying, Moore woman got to destroy the most beautiful thing not only in the hall of Saffir Strategy but the whole of. Salvatierra Leah. So you're telling me that when voting tried to kill Harry. Potter. A little bit of soul reflected off his Mamba Lily pond off and came all the way to Cuba Pity. And hit this this Arpaio. That's crazy. That is crazy. But Look Australia minerals. Pretty special high. SCOU- mate tied face Jana Reinhard. Lot another match. Beautiful on the ground I, get why they do it same woman. What are you train? What do you do when you get out? Want Hall they finally destroy this. That's been holding you back limiting potential right drain. No that's me. I would like to warm for all the forgotten extracted mole. Haven't forgotten them on a will. Every time I, look at it just drove me but then it's like I could start a massacre. Exactly, it does how are we GONNA Guy Jack? Stop we'RE GONNA FIGHT WE'VE GOTTA fight it look at it. Mobile Help US cover is. Smell a bit like iberson pits day back. Now, what are we doing day? To my off right on me. So, what else you have to a US Yup funny. You can lose everything, but you feel consciousness John let Gouge find. Die. Even, at Garrett's on. A garth SPA like modify can hold you. Everything including your like psychological condition and then just. My biceps on the floor of foreign still grouped around legally type. Plus. I K. Are we going to do this? We can't destroy magical powers have one. Bloody. Ludi mad. Eye. Moody. HEDWIG stead Fred. fucking love woods dead. Who says they're all fictional characters anyway but the pits had a baby baby. Haris. Defending transpeople, which is great. Too Little too late. West she she's self potted bell. Look. See stuff check it site at the time thing but minds more like m I a sexual or am I tie All I know is I'm hey, shake. Aid Fish. Yeah. Okay. That's That's Emma. What's involvement? Initiative. A male. Shit? Say. An Hey. got. Oh a fish. Done bed. Pats about not the Cya Dick Pop Dombak suck math. What happens is a question for the podcast what happens to white men when they touch too many bums. Do. They go to jail or they go to a place? Answer is nothing. Woman know what? I'm. GonNa do. Soon as I get you out of heat as soon as wait us out little brian from the navy's tobacco for. US Our little. Brian get you out of here to disperse these beautiful able. I'm in trance. We have to destroy it. We're going to do that. Would you have a bath a-list thing? I gave you on view about las here. You left it at home. Yeah. Where is it going to take it to buyer? Told you to pack it to Byron Fuck. Well we'RE GONNA. have to figure something else out you have a philosophist Stein, my boom Stein. Keystone. I told you to bring in every way I. told you to use it as a butt plug instead of your my little piney backlog because that was getting tangled messy using a furby the lost few times. That's probably why I Keep saying honey. Oh. Let's see what is it a hemorrhoids? Hanya him. Roy was the same thing. What's Him Roy is a issue that you. Essentially. Like a swollen blood vein around your. Isn't human body May. You know in the future I think we'll be able to give birth to cats. Oh Yeah. Well, if you don't have the bachelor. Philis darn which is going to have to Jack I've got it. We can sell it as jewelry. This would be worse. So much money. We can just get rid of him to someone we don't like. On guess. But how are we going to get out of here? We're GONNA have to chip away at it cheap waited and make it into jewelry earrings into rings into bracelets into make us into anklets Pandora Tom Tarring. I'm. Cop Brings. Nipple rings, forehead piercings. Den, abrasions the people wanting to go that extra mile but we could we could do that all. We could just make one big. No one's going to buy it how it out you don't actually. See. Let me I don't think we should sit around waiting to buy it because I know someone who could do with a bit of crux passing at. The very woman who brought whole thing into existence should deal with that problem she write it up I'm talking about. On the. Dominic Sir. Oh. International examination not even coffee I. Think we should send it straight to JK. Rolling. Well I have a Po box been sitting hate mouth loss two years. That's where will is dead tadpoles have been going. Up. Pretty. Minute but scoop them up with a minute bag put them in an envelope send him off to jk Po box to our. London that's what you get when you experiment with same monkeys when you wouldn't it just be justice to called her getting is huge toll cox on a joystick right down on whether I sent they convicts one. K. You, deal with it. I have you get way will make a slingshot the size of this big Wad man's bleached waxed us hall. Pulling it. Out of Group of payday. Striped to Cambridge. But I. I've actually I actually came the dial central put in Ucla. So I think I would be. Like to do. Now I think all three of us Oh true by women's moment a good base yet. Okay. Okay. All right. We're going to use your swelling bandages while women k. to make the slingshots. Wet. Push. The people into the League's. Position that look at it too much. It will blind you. It's so beautiful. Could you publish your pain but? You guys, I. WanNa stay down he would make. Around. No we call it. It's a whole call on stay down. Here we hunted. On the can of three everyone, let's hold onto the back of it. So waste showed up as well, and let's just go get out of the whole. Ready to pull the back guys on the Kenneth Ray. Take the steps. You can don't let and don't let go when it flings. Tiny you think. SLINGSHOT goal. Roxas we've been around the. Practice at seven Paradise Ready. The I pull all the way. To Cambridge. The whole the whole engage with eighty moment. Sorry. Upset on. Vitamin D deficiency. Actually. Malls are actually supposed to be a great. Frame free moment you may be how. The the half a friend to us. Let's do a group. Hug? Now. What are we ever going to thank you? You have told us. Sorry, what are you GonNa do for? Your. House because that was a good idea. Mile Limit? Squash. Well, we could beautiful POW and we could do a day to, but we have north stuff and we might just come back when we can afford a beautiful underground airbnb and the stench of the CEO Church isn't falling around us like an old bishop in Ballarat. I think. Do you WanNa say thank you for giving. Wait wait. It's coming over the horizon. Can you say that Mojo in a use summoning dust stole? Oh my God I've been seen photos of this daily weather old. Goals like Mad Max Fury, Road George, Lucas Dot EU. CHARLEENA's. Blunt glory them We. Russia's I think we should. Probably you show them woman we trust you got for. Fly Holyhead. Don't go to the Darren Dale Campsite there really aren't bestseller creepy funny down there as. We think it's what kind of happens to. Be. Ready said take you. Sh God I can feel the dust in my lungs. Are. Now, that might be. I just saw kid witch Circle Wellington. Is Cal as well. I just had a drain Jack also. And I saw you and I saw you Darren you were there you? Have the same dream, right? Yes. I did. Underground. Playa. If ten meters and any come right back down. Dress his from Romania Darren dial a now just. Just can cost in Cape A payday. This is like I've sunset driving. This is just like why can fry? Nice, he come on. Let's all. Go to the pub. Goodbye me for twenty enough I ham jelly cubes discovered jog and a couple more fishing as a way for the next freight train to come back down from broom. Hey Daryl. A dial. Is Whatever dresses think we were too hot on you from the get. Surprises let's go place in Bingo. OP. Eighty. Hits a tiny. Cure paid. A. Walking walking. Eighteen A Hey. How These show was improvised by main Ruby Teas and Jesse James, it featured lay McQueen Ryan Morgan. Jack Scott. Niche Laura. Ghana James Anthony and the mall woman developed and performed by the one and only hired Luxton. You want to get in contact with us he this up on Instagram at down. Riera pat of the network. My Name's Jack and my name's John and together way down south. indies whole. Debate but leaving. Again fish sauce. Call. What am I? I died at ten to stop wearing spot toilets. What squad tears bed bang for buck any plotting look at the end. Step down, and ready to move. He's going trucking chinks. Did your parents say you could have a policy
"Hey, this is key can wondering where absurd four is. It's over on Spotify where you can stream episode for and all the rest of the episodes in our series for free. You don't need a Spotify subscription. You can also hear Spanish language version troppo for free on Spotify as well. If you've been into the podcast, so far I promised the episodes yet to come are even better worth heading over to Spotify. Thank you for listening.
Chapo: Coming Soon
"Imagine you get called for jury duty only instead of the form that normally comes in the mail. You get ordered to come down to the court and fill out a thirty four page questionnaire a thousand people in New York recently had to do this and of a hundred and eighteen questions. It's number forty eight that cuts to the chase. The question is the case for which you are summoned involves the defendant Joaquin Archibaldo Guzman, the water also known as El Chapo. Have you read seen or heard anything about the defendant the case or the people involved? Ball. Corey of America's war on drugs is Joaquin El Chapo Guzman also known as an chapel the short while chapel. Goes smiles like the old SAMA bin Laden top trafficky pits, the ultra violent ultra lucrative similar Loic drug cartel. So Ritchie lays the Forbes magazine billionaires lifts, you think both submarines airplanes marijuana cocaine heroin, meth capital of land, eskimo, El Chapo Guzman. He's like a God. His scape from a maximum security prison for the second time and tonight, it's hair. We are tracking a big development Mexican drug kingpin Joaquin and chapel. Guzman has been extradited to the us to face charges for his role as the head of the cartel. So you've probably heard of El Chapo, you may have also heard that last year he was extradited from Mexico to New York and right now he's sitting in a maximum security jail in Manhattan awaiting trial that could put him behind bars for life. This is the drug trafficking case of the century. I mean, the feds have been after chopping for decades, and they're throwing all their weight behind this prosecution. But this case is about more than I'll troppo guilt or innocence. It's about the entire war on drugs. So next month has troppled trial starts in Brooklyn. We take you to meet people you won't hear from the hitmen for hire. All. Steals and feel so choose people for money, the reporters who are risking their lives to get the story. Right. You wanna see the real thing? The the president launched Mexico's war on drugs. I demand to Americans stuck with Flo. Who stole the floor, the L tropics family. Oh my God. That guy looks. Trump was brother the DA agent who tracked him down that was the moment where it was like. All right. The hunt on now and the people caught in the middle. Chose some those on the kid and its work. You'll the were soldiers over were. But they do anything she asked. What are good for? If they couldn't protect your family. I'm feeding Hamilton. This is tropical from vice news coming over I exclusively on Spotify and available in both English and Spanish, believe me. This is beyond one, man. This is beyond one case of drug trafficking.
AP Headline News Feb 21 2019 08:00 (EST)
"I hate you with the rhinestone collar between us dogs. I just convinced my human of grade to a new home with the twelve hundred square foot bathroom. I think she called it a yard with Wells Fargo's three percent down payment on a fixed rate loan. My Uman realized new home was within reach learn more at wellsfargo dot com slash. Wells Fargo home mortgage down payments as low as three percent on a fixed rate loan require mortgage insurance. Ask a home mortgage consultant about loan requirements. Wells Fargo home mortgage is a division of Wells Fargo Bank NA equal housing lender. MLS three thousand nine hundred one. After years have been rolled dope within an angel life. I'm free receipts of a mind of their own go, paperless and manager travel expenses online with my taxi business, make the smarter choice at mytalk Tuksy dot com. AP radio news. I'm Rita Foley. Actor jussie smollet has expected in court today after turning himself into police in Chicago empire's star jussie smollet surrendered to Chicago police early this morning. He faces a charge of making a false police report when he said he was attacked last month by two men who hurled racist and anti gay slurs and looped a rope around his neck the charge could bring up to three years in prison. It could also force the thirty six year old actor to pay for the cost of the police investigation into the alleged assault. Authorities will hold a news conference this morning Sma. Let is doing court later today. I'm Matt small with on the woman who left Alabama to join the Islamic state group years ago now wants to return home. But President Trump says she cannot the US claims she's not a citizen, and she's a terrorist says secretary of state Mike Pompeo who spoke to the today. Shows Craig Melvin this morning. She may have been born here. She is not a US citizen Norrish entitled to US citizenship. Is that because she was the daughter of a diplomat. And she was born here is that. That's right. Her lawyer says that idea is based on a complicated interpretation of immigration law. A coastguard officer the prosecutors described as a terrorist goes to court today in Maryland, according to court papers, prosecutors say US Coast Guard Lieutenant Christopher Paul Hassen who was arrested last week is a domestic terrorist. Prosecutors writing court papers that hasn't drafted an Email discussing biological attacks. At he had what appeared to be a hit list that named prominent Democrats and media figures, Mike Rossier? Washington path lectures leaders attending a landmark Vatican summit on preventing clergy sex abuse or hearing videotaped testimony from victims one woman from Africa says her priest abuser forced her to have three abortions. This is a P radio news. A report of juror misconduct, and the El Chapo cases, raising questions about the Mexican drug lords conviction in New York defense attorney Ed ward Obama Lorenzo says if the charges made an vice news article about the L troppo jury are true, it's clear. His client did not get a fair trial of ice correspondent quotes a juror as saying several members of the panel routinely ignored the judges admonishment to ignore news. Coverage of the case they avidly read coverage on Twitter. Jurors identities were kept secret. They were brought to and from home every day under heavy security baller. SO did not say whether the defense would seek a new trial walking. Guzman was convicted last week on charges expected put him in prison for life. Warren Levinson New York flights to and from Dublin airport in Ireland were halted briefly this morning after a drone was spotted over the airfield. The same thing happened recently at a London area airport where one hundred thousand travelers were stranded or delayed just before Christmas. I'm Rita Foley. AP radio news. Hi, it's Jamie, progressive's number one number two employee. Leave a message at the hey, Jamie. It's me, Jamie. This is your daily pep talk. I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your Capella group mad harmony, but you will bounce back. I mean, you're the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool. It should be you giving me the pep talk. Now get out there, hit that high note, and take mad harmony all the way to nationals this year. Sorry. It was pitchy. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. No an ad from dad. All right. Save money on car insurance when you bundle home and auto with progressive. Gotta take these off. Right. What is this? Wow. Where did you get this? I'm talking to you with the hair. Yeah. Where did you get this? Good stuff. Solid. That's not veneer that solid stuff. Progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurance discounts not available in all states or situations.
Case #12 El Chapo
"Uh-huh. The man, we're talking about today is the most well known drug Lord in the world. He so thoughtfully planned his drug trafficking business that he worked the drug market for over thirty years and wasn't captured until twenty sixteen. He also oversaw his own cartel to produce distributor, legal drugs, and even went, so far as to build tunnels underground, bypassed border, patrols. Can you guess who are talking about today, for case number twelve? If you thought Chapo, you're right on the money. Well, folks, I'm laughing because we just had a five minute conversation about what the facts. But because we love you, we're going to cut that out so you don't have to deal with. We're cool. But we were how ever talking about a fun fact about the color blue. Yeah. So I asked CARA, do you know why it's called Royal blue? And she, of course at no right? So I went on to tell her and educate her, and I will do the same for you guys that Royal blue is called that because back in the day, only royals could afford that colored dye. So to have anything blue had to be Royal, therefore Royal blue, which is kind of an interesting fact, if you think about it. I know thought it was super cool. I was telling care, that's literally, the only like trivia, interesting fact that I know off the top of my head. Yeah, but I love it because I feel like it fits in with my work really. Well, it really dying designer. Yeah. So there you have not just a designer the graphic designer the designer right. The of course, I always forget that on the map. Gosh. Kind of a big deal awards and stuff. No big deal. Crazy insane amazing designer well, much Keira. He's like, please stop. Just a little bit read true. But anyway, I guess we undock story. No. Yeah. That was like one son facts and Filo faxes and. Rolodex. The day we also were talking about Rolodex, which is what I thought you were talking about when you said Filofax, that's what I was thinking. I was talking about when I said Filofax that's cool. No. Now we know we've educated ourselves. Now we know with all that is. How about you? Tell us about Al Chabot. Okay. I will. Yourself? Mexican drug Lord Joaquin Guzman, Laura alias El Chapo was once the head of Mexico's most powerful organized crime group. The Cinna Loa cartel his ability to simultaneously co opt public officials attack, enemy strongholds and find creative ways to get his drugs to market has made him a legend in the end of world. Before it is capture in February of two thousand fourteen Guzman was the most wanted man in the western hemisphere. He escaped once again from prison crawling through a tunnel on July eleventh. Two thousand fifteen prompting, a massive manhunt in Mexico on January eighth two thousand sixteen president in pin yet, though, said FIU, Twitter, that the government had rearrested, the fugitive Sinoloa cartel leader, a little over one year later on January nineteenth two thousand seventeen Mexican authorities announced his extradition in a communique issued less than twenty four hours before Donald Trump was sworn in as the forty fifth US president. L Chabot reign came to an end once and for all on February twelfth two thousand nineteen when a US jury found him guilty on all ten counts included in the federal indictment against him, including leading an ongoing criminal enterprise, which carries a life sentence in federal prison without the possibility of parole. So let's start with the little history. Born in a small farming community ambassador, Guo, Sinoloa state, whose moms spent his childhood shuttling oranges, to the market with his uncle help he moved into contraband and later coordinated large shipments of marijuana, and finally cocaine and similar state, and later to the United States he may have little formal education, but he definitely has a PHD in drug-trafficking. Guzman is known as a pioneer in the trade having a century least airplane hangar in Mexico City's principal airport for years and led the way in constructing tunnels beneath the US Mexican border, El Chapo career has also been marked by in fighting and bloodshed. He split from the core group of Guadalajara based traffickers in the nineteen nineties and began a bloody fight with Tijuana cartel, which ran the lucrative. Tijuana trafficking corridor after an attempt on his life in nineteen Ninety-three. Guzman fled to Guatemala, where he was arrested by the authorities and deported back to Mexico from jail. He continued plying his trade with his brother, Arturo Guzman, Laura, alias L, polio, managing the business his cohorts from sin alot, a thorough and Hector BELTRAN Leiva regularly brought him suitcases of cash, so he could grease the wheels of power inside the prison and continue his opulent lifestyle, including specially prepared meals, and conjugal visits from his wife girlfriends, and prostitutes, his friend, ally and relative by marriage, one Jose s better Goza, motivational, alias LSU, made sure that goose Mons product got to the United States without interference from his rivals. Guzman escaped prison in two. Thousand one just as authorities were laying the groundwork for his extradition to the United States. He alluded capture for more than a decade by creating sophisticated security system, allegedly basing himself and isolated rural areas of Sinoloa and Durango while chop was on the run. There were number of seeming close calls that later turned out to be fabricated in February of two thousand twelve Mexican authorities reported that they had come the closest ever to catching goose mon-, however, later reports indicated that the operation had never occurred, and that the false information may have been an effort to boost color on popularity in the run-up to the twenty twelve election in February two thousand thirteen authorities and Guatemala the same country responsible for his jail. Stint in the nineteen ninety s reported goose months possible death in shootout. A report though is also found to be false. Numerous musicians have celebrated his ability to allude capture and undermined the authorities, and the early hours, February twenty-second twenty fourteen because Mon was captured by Mexican marines a motel in the Mexican beach resort city of Mazatlan at the time of his arrest. He was the most wanted criminal on the planet and had a five million dollar reward on his head. That's a lot of money. So I would take it same. If I could just find him, I would I mean, take that money. Yeah. Despite pressure from US officials for his extradition nearly as soon as he was captured in February tints, US, Mexico relations, have left in doubt, whether the cartel boss will ever face Justice in the United States on July. Eleventh, two thousand fifteen Mexico thority is reported that L troppo had escaped from his maximum security prison yet again. No laundry car was reportedly evolved. This time as was the case for his legendary case in two thousand one he apparently, crawled through a tunnel that was one point five kilometers wide and led directly into his prison shower sell, according to reports on January eighth two thousand sixteen Mexico's president wrote on Twitter, mission accomplished, we have them. I would like to inform the Mexican people that walk came. Goose mon- load Ida has been arrested on January nineteenth two thousand seventeen. L chop. Oh, was extradited to the United States, just hours before Donald Trump's inauguration. In a move that spurred debate as to what message president Pinon yet, though, intended to send to the incoming US, head of state after three month federal drug trafficking trial in the United States, L, troppo was found guilty and February of twenty nineteen on all ten counts in the federal indictment against him, including charges ranging from drug trafficking to money laundering, and leading an ongoing criminal enterprise. He faces a mandatory minimum life sentence in the federal US prison likely in the so-called Alcatraz of the Rockies or eighty x Florence the United States. Only supermax prison. How could they nod find him guilty? I mean, let's be real. I, I can't like guys been working the drug market since the late seventies. Yeah, he's been in it deep. Before his arrest in two thousand fourteen Guzman was widely considered the world's biggest drug trafficker and among the most wanted criminals on the planet, with chapel at the helm the sin alot cartel came to dominate the global cocaine market and became a major player in the trafficking of heroin, met them Venema and marijuana Guzman's immense fortune from drug trafficking or quired a sophisticated money laundering system, diligent Mayes, the elicit funds in two thousand nine he was included on the Forbes list of billionaires. However, he was later dropped from its raking in two thousand thirteen. I cannot believe that Forbes would put him on their top billionaire layered. That is just not see the drug Lord. They know where he's getting his money. Right. Right. But whatever that's shocking. I guess, I guess they have no standards these days. You know, I guess not in two thousand nine they finally got standards. Twenty thirteen. Let's hope. So let's talk about some of the geography Guzman was allegedly based in rural parts of Sinoloa, and Durango prior to his capture in two thousand fourteen however, while the drug Lord was on the run rumor swirled that he was hiding out or operating in various countries, including Honduras Argentina Guatemala, Bolivia, and even the United States Guzman was eventually arrested in the beach resort city of Mazot, Lynn, sin Loa. Goose munns. Sinoloa cartel is believed to have a presence in nearly every major city in the United States, and Latin America within Mexico. The cartel is believed to operate in seventeen states throughout the country. What a huge operations Joppa ration- that organization you have to have for that seriously. But he has a logistics degree. Maybe while he who knows actually maybe he taught a class. Maybe how cool can you imagine having been in the class of El Chapo? Oh my gosh. I would totally take that class, though. Honestly, I bet you could learn some things from I mean, he had tunnels built to bypass borders. Yes. That blows my mind that you could even do that sounds like something from the movies really though, it's crazy. Undergoes watched the Sinoloa cartel waged a bloody turf war with its rival the Juarez cartel during the mid two thousand for control of valuable drug trafficking routes near the US border. The Sinoloa cartel emerged victorious cementing its position as the foremost drug trafficking organization in Mexico. Following a split with the Belgian Leiva organization or yellow in two thousand eight there cartel. Forged alliances with former rivals the Gulf cartel and the familia me to Kana. However, both rivals are shadows of their former selves with many of their leaders either killed or captured Gu's mon- created the hemisphere's largest drug cartel with many of those who helped imprison including Espera, Goza and the BELTRAN, Leiva brothers Guzman has also spent a significant amount of time and effort cultivating support among Mexicans, especially in rural areas where contraband and drug trafficking is a way of life Gu's mom's family is deeply involved in trafficking, and it's battles with his rival cost him his brother are thorough, who was killed in prison in two thousand four while mon- carried on a dispute with Zeta 's his son Edgar Guzman. Lopez was killed in may two thousand eight and Khalil kin Sinoloa, amidst Joaquin's dispute with his former allies. The BELTRAN live organisation, his longtime girlfriend from his time in jail Zulema Hernandez, who was found in the trunk of a car in two thousand eight strangled to death with the letters, e carved into our body presumably by rival group diseases. The Institutional Revolutionary Party and the National Action Party have long traded barbs accusing each other of being beholden to goose Mon. The reality is that both may have factions allied to the trafficker as do parts of the military, and police throughout Mexico and other neighboring countries. Moms stunning second escape from maximum security prison. In July of two thousand fifteen sparked an immediate massive man hunt for the Sinoloa cartel head. There is widespread suspicion of high level official collusion and the government has come under intense pressure to recapture goose mon- quickly which they did on January eighth of twenty sixteen after chop, bows, extradition, the United States in early two thousand seventeen speculation swirled about whether or not the former kingpin would testify during his own trial. However, he never did, El Chapo will spend the rest of his natural life in prison, which leads us into today's farside cares. We're talking about the national drug helpline. This organization offers twenty four seven drug and alcohol help to people struggling with addiction. They can provide information regarding treatment and recovery. As well as contact information to professionals in the substance abuse and the mental health field. For more information visit their website at WWW dot drug helpline dot org. So also guys if you stick around for just a minute more you're gonna hear bloopers from today's episode they're pretty hysterical. We think it's worth your while take a listen. Born in a small farming community in batted Dahl. Born in a small farming community and batterer up watt dole. I can't terrible. On January eighth two thousand sixteen president and rega-. Pinna. President in Riquet Pinna Nieto said via Twitter that the government had rearrested the fugitive. On January eighth two thousand sixteen president in Rick Pinna. Allegedly basing himself in isolated rural. Row out, especially in rural, especially in rural, especially in rural, especially in rural areas. Gotta get back on get back on the horse and ride at the end of this.
EP 4: The Border
"Just a heads up. What you're about to hear includes explicit descriptions and discussions about extreme violence. With other Tacoma's in one four. He's saying nothing Toshio anything unless we're wearing gloves. All hundred hundred end is nece is a forensic doctor and works at the morgue and see what other potus just across the border from El Paso. So we're at the forensic science lab of the state of Chihuahua to meet with Dr the mortgage inside a cluster of plane buildings bind a chain link fence at the state attorney general's office. The first thing you notice when you enter is the smell the smell here is very hostile. Alcohols and close to smell. It's hard to describe a mix of cleaning supplies and decay. It's overpower partially. It's a smell that. You will never forget. It'll is injured subconscious conscious and conscience you have that smell for days. Waters has been violent for a long time. But in recent years, the whole world started paying attention, but in the nineties and nearly two thousand the murder rate in what is started to climb for women in particular. The city has a lot of monkeys which are fuckers that make goods for export after that was passed nine hundred ninety four even more fucked doors opened in the lot of women were coming to wars to work in them over the last two decades, hundreds of teenage girls and young women have gone missing in Juarez, some turn up dead or forced into prostitution rings, the cartels were also focusing more on what is because of access to traffic on roads. This meet what is especially dangerous for the people who live there. Many of the dead were being dumped in the desert and hot climate caused the bodies to break down especially fast yet though. Meet in which you square post you saying that when he began working here, many of the bodies worse. So they composed that they couldn't be identified. So they ended up in a mass grave, and does this very so he's already told mutual square. Was a victim of saw a lot of young women that had been killed which was really hard for him because he has three girls. Does he the emperor investigator KOMO help? I think fight the dead. He decided to research. How to compose bias Luke alive gain? Eventually, Dr Hernandez figured out a way to be hydrate. Corpses. My submerging them in a special chemical solution. So we've entered his personal apps base. And there's plastic box. That's sort of the shape of a coffin without a lid, maybe three feet deep and three feet across this is the the jacuzzi as they call it here where he submerges bodies in this liquid the process brings back fingerprints. And reveals identifying features like tattoos and scars the work is incredibly useful and difficult on a lot of levels. Even now the doctor often works alone. Equal Mosley's only be indecent means combine your history. Local with the people he works with says, he's crazy as you say that when he's alone with the bodies, he talks to them. You're Lizzy hall. Gain. Okay. Bells. The bodies he's going to put them into a vast though, some he's going to make them look like they used to. So they can be I think defied in the years after he developed the technique. What does his murder rate continued to increase by two thousand eight it was at an all time high Bugden twenty bodies were coming in every day. So the more has to hire extra people to work night shifts to process all the corpses over we've got some on the he's saying he remembers one case when qualified is worth found bird underneath a house. There were imbed shape of a sailor's done league. Don't on to identify all the bodies they needed to rehydrate every finger. The ombudsman was what was it that could miss ocasio about this doing that's one hundred twenty fingers? Episode four the border. Listen to that. Mexican federal officers were in a gun flights Sunday with a drug gang when they were also attacked with a grenade. Warzone is not in some far off country. It's just across the border from El Paso, Texas in Mexico. One of the most dangerous cities in the world. This new violence is partly connected to El Chapo, the more the in what is spike between two thousand eight and to those and employs which is one of chapel and the senior walk call it trying to take things to the next level. So they can control traffic on routes across the border yesterday. There were thirteen executions here in warez the day before nineteen two of those were capitated. What is was a mess organized? Crime was everywhere. A lot of police were involved and those who tried to enforce the law or frequently threatened or killed. Federal prosecutors in the US say they have one witness ready to testify about a murder house. Snow Loa cartel set up in Juarez Cording to this witness there were plastic sheets covering the walls and Adrain built into the floor for all blood. That is how extreme the war waters had become wasn't golfing. The city. Because of the violence tourism has dried up and more than six thousand businesses have closed leaving tens of thousands unemployed. The traffickers that control the city the Fatah's cartel. We're fighting Trump does seen a lower cartel in streets. Businesses closed in those that stayed open and to pay bribes to the cartels. People even started trying to make their homes look shabby, so they wouldn't get noticed by gangs. And a lot of innocent people were getting killed. Louis Maria Daba'a move from Mexico City to office in nineteen eighty-five confer job. What was it like when you first came to? What is like what was your impression of the city when you first arrived Siamese? Throw a wholesome. And she's saying that what is was good place who find more impulse. Kim. I'm back, then it was peaceful in what is she found work in a monkey LA this one was a factory that made speakers show so met and married. Her husband Jose, Luis and they had two sons, Marcus and Jose Luis junior just as the voice worrying to play an American style food bowl and their work. Good students in those she saying she thinker. What her son's study as long as they kept going to school? She just doing one them to ended up working in a factory like her and her husband. She us one them to have a better life. When did when did the city start to change? The but is saying things start to get really bad into five. That's when the Kartal start fighting for territory. Lhasa? They said can you get you got the Dacians Jim women get killed? This noon. Among the sees wanted to leave to the kids. It unless say not changes turkeys in dental wore night in January two thousand ten seen right here in heroin Roman waiting for her boys to get home. Usually she was pretty strict wouldn't let her sons go out at night. But they were just at a party right down the street. Was I mean, look at me every so, but on this puddles because you don't know this legal. She says hard gunshots. Very close Ha's Mahar them to the run to the street funny coriander. On the in. When she got to the house where the potty was she found a woman outside who being shot in the head. And in the back. The house was full of smoke and kits were bleeding. Of. Pretty much Marcle smart. She's a horse on Marcus. She wasn't a floor. He was dead. Say just the also race Mickle committed. She so horse on Lewis was still alive husband become up put him in a truck along with another big little gets. Who gets what? There's a hospital close to their house on the outskirts of waters, and they rush there Jose Louise, immediately went into surgery lose and her husband waited. And if I guess you're going media at her son hostelries died at five thirty in the afternoon. She rapid his bandages and found out that he'd been shot in the chest domain. Genitals legs faith narms. Space, but that's fifteen people were killed in the attack. Most of them teenagers like Marcos who is nineteen and Jose Luiz who is sixteen. The guy who killed them were from Laney gang that belong to the horse Kartal. Apparently, they thought members of a rival gang connected to troppo in the ceelo cartel where at the party some of the kids played in a football league known as double A, which also happened to be the initials of the rival gang. Far is is right on the border of Texas. He can lead to walk into the US. So it's always been important city for drug trafficking. But it became way more important back in nineteen ninety two when NAFTA was signed President Bush picked inappropriately symbolic setting today the sign the North American Free trade agreement between the US Mexico and Canada. He was at the headquarters of the organization of American states in Washington. The agreement will create a free trade zones for North America when NAFTA takes effect, cheap US. Corn floods the Mexican market putting many farmers here out of work and US companies set monkey Lous just south of the border outsourcing more factory jobs to Mexico, which means the suddenly what is becomes this huge manufacturing hub and free traffic across the border increases exponentially, which is great news for drug smugglers because there is so much traffic. It's impossible to search all or even most of the bianca's crossing between the US and Mexico smog. Limb becomes a law. Issuer? Quotas becomes one of the most valuable territories in Mexico and Chabot decides he wants a piece of it. Chapel escape Brisson in two thousand and one. So when he scape reason he has to start over, but he knew the business he knew how to work, and he just need the plaza. So he can you know as mobile his throat. So what is it? It's very good for them. So they try to negotiate. I think he broke out of prison in two thousand one or so the story goes he proposed to the other cartel leaders that they start the new federation. Now this works for few years, then the conflict starts between chapel in the hottest cartel. Now. He wants access to the smuggling routes to waters, and he tries to negotiate with the cartel, but it doesn't work. So he suspected of putting out a hit on the leader of the hottest cartel while that nude visiting Julia com. His name was Ridolfi Correo four days, and his nickname was on Uniondale, Oro the golden boy. And then three months later chop. Bo's brother was murdered in prison and people believe that was retaliation for killing with also the thing in those two Nate and due to the escalate to a whole new level. Yeah. I mean, also went escalated from just like somebody got gunned down on the street to like making displays violence where people were decapitated heads on. Spikes bodies were hung from bridges, and it's it's not just a murder a murder to send a message to instill fear. A clear message like, you know, we're not just going to kill you. But we're not shop the up in little business. The violence gets especially bad and Fatah's because the cartels have a bunch of different guys fighting on their bath their street gangs, like LA Linea, which fights for as and the AA gang, which fights troppo. There are the corrupt cops. It's cartel has different groups of police work for them. Dr Lucca cups. Stay cups, Clark cups, and they are fighting each other then in two thousand six on July. Second forty one million Mexicans went to the polls to elect a new president Mexico elects fully bay called the room after more than three days of vote counting and recounting. The conservative candidate Philippe pay called her on has been declared the official winner of Mexico's closest election ever his leftist rival Andre manual Lopez Arbor door claims that he was robbed a victory after just barely winning the election called own announces that he's going to deploy the military to fight against the drug cartels. Not since the Mexican revolution of a century. Ago as this country seemed so many troops out in public. A lot of his critics say he went to war with drug traffickers as show of strength after the disputed election. Call the Rhone says about retaking control of the state either way he starts sending soldiers into the streets. Nearly fifty thousand soldiers and marines are deployed in regions were drug violence is raging from Mexico's deep south to its northern border with United States, but the violence it just gets worse since Mexico's president Felipe bay called her own declared war on drug cartels for years ago. Almost five thousand citizens have been murdered and more as alone. We're in Mexico City, and we're going to interview bay called her on was the former president of Mexico twenty six hundred twelve called Ron is probably best known for launching Mexico's war on drugs. It doesn't give many interviews about the drug war. He's sensitive about getting blamed for all the violence in Mexico during his presidency. Could you just quickly? Just tell me what you had for breakfast. Of the Oto Oto cherry. Three years into his term Mexico's murder rate had almost tripled. But he says deploying the military was the only way to restore the rule of law. So we started a massive operation to controlled today. Actually, we did we had we got good results at the beginning. But that's basically the story. But this quickly expands to other parts of the country to Tijuana to the northeast. And then at the same time, you're seeing violence go up significantly would you do anything differently? If you could go back and do it over again, dad violence started because the five for the contrel territory between organized crime groups between carpets another because the action of the government, the US and Mexico use this thing called the kingpin strategy where they focus on taking out cartel leaders like troppo and called her own took us to a new level. Do you still believe in that that strategy of targeting the leadership of organizations will another come mistake ace that we operated only capturing beheads we were working across the board. And we were able to put in jail thousands of people at any level. What is important of these is again it is not about drug. It's about recovered control of the state and recovered, the capability of the state to protect the citizens called told us that the bigger issue facing Mexico then and now was corruption which he says he worked at tackle during his term. But an NPR report from twenty ten suggests that the Mexican army was actually helping chop oh in the battle for WADA's and that across Mexico members Trump was seen a low cartel were arrested far less often than members of other major cartels like Lucius seen this. Hello cartel has remained relatively intact compared to other no cartels, honestly is not attack. So the demand. There was kept which is the chapel after we talked. He provided some data that showed in some cities like WADA's the homicide rate was decreasing by the end of his term, which he says was a result of his strategy. And he also says look the violence wasn't just Mexico's fault. I demanded to the Americans. To President Bush President Obama public in the congress ngelo the nation. Stop we request to favors which actually not favorites. But to moral duties view stub the flow of money. And so the flow of weapons. We have thirty years that you are saying that you are going to reduce the consumption that is happening. Give me one needs the. Sympathetic. Where was after loses sons and their friends were murdered called her own made. A public statement saying that essentially they got what they deserved that. The people at that party, including her sons were just gang members all the people all over Mexico words, so mad at Caldero because it seems to most buys the heating care about a month later called her own went to Juarez for meeting with people from the community lose. And a lot of the other family members attended this is the tape from that event. You can see lose go into the meeting. She turns her back to call their own. Number security tells her to sit down or they'll kick her out. Yes, I get that. She's crying. But she standing then she walks to the front of the room to the stage where called her own and the other fficials are sitting she's such a few feet from me. And she says, you're not welcome here. What is what these to be and the city's morning for the kids or killed? Chiwetel skull. He could take back what he said about her kids about them being gangsters to him. That's a lie in the video called own looks at her and nods his head after a few minutes. News, finishes and walks off the room breaks into thoughts. Right after going to be with Louis cheat. The to the building were her sons were killed. It's just a couple blocks down the street their neighborhood department. It's memorial. Now, it's just one big room now and the walls are line little altars for each of the fifteen victims of the massacre lose pas for moment in front of the altar for her younger son who's Lewis? Chose this on the on the kid moose says that when her kids were killed. There were soldiers over were on the streets on the rooftops. But they could do anything. She asked what Dr good for if they Limpert the funny, but. Momentum several cartel members were arrested for killings children and sentenced to prison the violence did let up for few years in WADA's. But earlier this year, the city was still averaging two hundred homicides a month and for Mexico as a whole the murder rate is the highest it's been in three decades. Next time town under undersea. Thinking on what's up how you doing? Back from and I stopped with this family that I know and we went trying to see this kid was home. He he was threatened. He was threatened by the marines was still that if he is fixed when you one about what happened to him about what the marine to can they will come back and there were him, and they will family.
ARRL Audio News - January 17, 2020
"This is A. R. L. Audio News. Your weekly summary of news highlights from the world of and Aradio if you retransmit audio dues through a repeater. Peter Listened for the Morse Code K character followed by four seconds of silence. That you're you to stop transmitting so that your repeater timer. Her can reset. I'm Steve for. WB Eight. I M Y and these are stories for Friday January seventeenth. Carla Pereira is on assignment. Puerto Rico Section Manager Oscar Resto. KP FOR OUR F- reports that several amateur radio emergency service. Volunteers have been deployed employed to earthquake ravaged regions of the island at the request of the American Red Cross initial operations got underway in the town of Yoko where the Red Cross has a central warehouse for the earthquake. Relief effort operations are on VHF and UHF although commercial telecommunication services do remain in operation for the most part a station has also been activated at the Red Cross headquarters in the capital of San Juan. which is not in the earthquake zone? Aftershocks continue on the island a magnitude five point. Nine tremors struck over the weekend a R L is shipping six VHF UHF repeater base antennas and six fifty foot rolls of L. Mr Four Hundred Co ax through the Hameed Fund since January twelfth. The ARIZON- on five amateur radio. Volunteers have been handling health and welfare traffic from the earthquake zone. The digital edition of a our ells new on on the air magazine is now available on the web at. WWW dot a. r. r. l. Dot Org forward slash on dash the Dash Air Dash magazine. Both on the air in tea are also available on the new A. R. L. MAGS APP UP FOR IOS and android devices. If you've been able to automatic updates on your device your APP should update with a new A. R. L. Mags Blue Logo if not you may have to update your APP manually. In addition to the new on the air magazine A. R. L. has unveiled a new on the air. podcast you'll find the podcast on apple and stitcher. The A R L West Central Florida's section action is marking its twentieth anniversary this year. The section newsletter the W. C. F. Presser includes information on celebratory activities AK okay for WC F special event in January. We'll activate all ten of the sections counties with additional K.. For W CF special events later after this year the West Central Florida's section website also has a new look for the Twentieth Anniversary Celebration West Central Florida. It was a R L seventy seventy first section. It includes Charlotte to Soto. Hardy highlands Hillsborough Manatee. Pasco analysis poke and Sarasota counties. The current West Central Florida's Section Manager Is Daryl Davis K T four w x the Deutscher Amateur Radio Club. This year is honoring thirty. Five years of software defined radio technology with a special call Sign D. L. Thirty five. Sdr You're the club stated that digital signal processing via SDR has become generally accepted standard for decoding and generating radio signals else. MDX News Six. Oh One oh in. Somalia is on the air running one hundred watch to vertical antenna in Mogadishu and should would remain active until February fifth. vk Nine N que is active from no four Guyland and his operation may continue into April. You have about a week Glove Work Palau listen for T- eighty-eight Ceesay T adhd K.. T. A. D. N. T. add not eighty-eight e F anti eight MB VP TO MC. V should be on the air from the island of Montserrat starting on January twenty twenty-sixth and see five W. X.. Should be taking to the airwaves from the Gambia on the twenty eighth for Special Event Operations this weekend next I listened for K seven. T the Tahoe National Monument in Tucson Arizona on January eighteenth on the nineteen th through the twenty fifth w seven in Q.. We'll be working stations from courtside fest. Twenty twenty also in Arizona and January Twenty Fifth and Twenty Sixth AG. Six Eighty. A you in Coloma. We'll be celebrating the discovery of gold in California for complete details. See Your January issue of curiosity magazine. The Handy Ham program would like to make the do on the air magazine and other A. R. Are L. Publications available to members with print disabilities by creating audio versions of the text do so they need volunteers. Who can read the text aloud allowed and make recordings these volunteer positions require you to use your own equipment to record but the requirements are relatively simple? You need only a microphone or headset. That can record into your computer. Some free audio editing software and a quiet place to make the recordings of course they handy. Ham Program will provide vied all the reading materials. If you or someone you know would like to try recording material for Handy Ham members contact Lucinda Moody Handy Ham Program Program Coordinator for more information on how to submit a demo recording. You can email Lucinda at Lucinda L. U. C. I N. D. The L. A. Dot Moody M. O. O. D. Y. at A. L. L. I. N. A. DOT COM or call. Call Area Code six one. Two seven seven five two two nine zero Iowa state parks on the air is underway and we'll continue continue through gears in the event is sponsored by the Great River Amateur Radio Club with the support of Iowa section manager. Leila Gardner W as zero you I G and the Iowa Division of Natural Resources according to Colin Wheatley W nine. UPK Iowa had the first State State Park System in the nation and Iowa's first State Park Backbone State Park was dedicated in nineteen twenty since then the state park system. Some has grown to some seventy parks and recreational facilities including sixty three state parks stations logging contacts with five of Viola state parks during the year. Long celebration can request a certificate by sending illegal sized self addressed sealed envelope to I a. s. p.. Ot Dash Twenty twenty care of the Great River Amateur Radio Club Post Office box. Thirteen thirteen eighty four Dubuque Iowa five two zero zero four and now With this week. Satellite Update Years Bruce Page K. K.. Five do loose sat or L. O.. Nineteen was the first satellite built by Argentina. Hams and one of the I to use Paksat Protocol. Many Hams will remember you owe fourteen. You Owe Fifteen EO sixteen. Do Seventeen and and W O eighteen. They were all launched on the same rocket on January Twenty Second Nineteen Ninety euro fourteen and nineteen nineteen were very popular L.. You sat is still calling home with her carrier at four thirty seven decimal one to five saying hey. Hey I'm here from January. Eighteen th through the twenty six several Argentina club stations and amateurs will be active on the air both H F and satellite. If you make one contact with the special stations you can receive a cure sell or make a few more and receive a special certificate for more information visit amp sat dot org dot A. R. Slash Question Mark F. F. Hyphen three zero e thanks to amps out Argentina for this story are you looking for a few new grids from January anuary fourteen through February first atom. Casey Three Obie S.. We'll be operating from the New Orleans area in grids L.. Forty nine nine Yell fifty-eight em fifty nine em forty fifty and the m sixty Chris V. E. The three will be operating from Labrador on the way he will operate from Grids F. O. Ninety two. Go Zero two go one two Jio one three and Geo twenty two all weather permitting and finally for this week's update Mel w eight M V. We'll be in Montserrat from January twenty six through February second using the call. VP to emcee. This is Bruce Page K. K. Five. Do for the awro audio news. This is the L. audio news propagation and forecast for Friday January seventeenth or back to a spotless. Sonic a brief flirtation with a couple of cycle. twenty-five sunspots the solar flux index is still at seventy two however so be sure to check seventeen and fifteen meters on occasion. A stream of solar wind will reach us by the time. You hear this us but it really isn't expected to cause much trouble. Conditions should remain decent on one hundred sixty through forty meters on VHF and you H F. It's quiet on the west coast but the east coast is another matter. Some major weather fronts are expected to trigger troppo band openings onto meters and up and that concludes includes a r l audio news this week our thanks to all contributors to this week's report a R L audio news is produced by the American radio. Relay League the National Association for Amateur Radio for more information on amateur radio or the ARL visit us on the web at A. R. L. Dot. Org You can also find us on facebook and twitter by searching for a R L if you have a question or comment about a our audio news email us at audio news at are L. Dot O._R._G.. This program is Copyright A. R. L. All rights reserved seventy three and. Thanks for listening.