17 Burst results for "Trinity Evangelical Divinity School"
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on Halfway There | Christian Testimonies | Spiritual Formation, Growth, and Personal Experiences with God
"Yeah we so i. I attended trinity evangelical divinity school for awhile and they did their theology opens in how you do it right so they did their theology and three classes. In the first one was was god was was his father son and spirit and then And then the others. Both when i moved to denver that i had to do a mess. It's a long story but Anyway so yeah i did. I did have one but you're right. As far as studying theology goes is the one i mean. That's a huge degree right. It was like a ninety credit degree or seventy credit degrees. Exactly wow wreck react. I think the church is. The church is a meet folk really That that's i know that's was my problem. And i'm i'm wanting to learn more and more about the nature of gone it's like man is is so much year and and start learning contemplation. Really focused on this. Sir you making those courses or what are you. what are you doing. well i'm right now. because of the covid situation on the illogic seminary has free videos to watch from various things including three courses insist matic biology and so i'm taking one that's supposed to be on god in creation are so far it's mostly about what is reality. I'm not very far along Anyway i'm i'm. I'm hoping i'm hoping to see what is the normal experience or will go there and But yeah it's it's my desire. I'd love to teach more And you know go ahead and get a degree in teach more of figure out a way to ordered and everything and and just like you say put together Classes on what some call proper biaggi. And yeah i think these these are desperately-needed. Yeah well hey don't i would just encourage you. Don't wait till you get to the degree. Go go yeah go make it because we need it..
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on OC Talk Radio
"How to christmas if i asked you to. Tell me about how you do christmas. I bet you'd start telling me about family. Traditions decorations scheduled for opening presents. Typical attendance at church services and stuff like that right now. You wanna tell me about the lights. You've put up in the midst of the pandemic in who can't travel to see whom and we are so far afield. We can't see the baby through the pine needles. But before i send you on a guilt trip which is just too easy to do. I want to ask more thoughtful question. How should we do christmas. If we want to have anything to do with the founder in my not so humble opinion anything we do regularly can get distorted by the familiarity which loves to breed contempt. Christmas comes around every year whether we like it or not. But why why is this something. We're celebrating or is it. When i was a new christian i went through what i jokingly referred to as the jehovah witness stage of questioning every tradition which is not explicitly commanded in the bible. Just because something is a tradition. Doesn't make it go to right right. If you've ever been willing to talk to a jehovah witness knocking on your door. They will explain. Why birthdays and holidays aren't worth celebrating. They may have a point. So why is the church determined for two thousand years the wrong in the holy in holy day for the birth of jesus and we like and here what can we do to put the holy into our christmas. How can we learn more about the one. Where celebrating. How can we teach our children and grandchildren. In such a way that they don't fall prey to the consumer a secularists the cynical communists or the grasping pagans in the midst of their winter festivals and chili sauces. They answered this question. We've asked back. Dr perry downs a former professor of christian education at trinity evangelical divinity school the alma mater of your host. He's real practical a foster parent over thirty blessed children and just real enough to be worth listening to welcome back to church shirts and dr perry downs. Thank you john. I really appreciate being here with you. Pair you know. I like to jump into theory. But let's just to. Which your favorite christmas memory i have to. I think i would share with your one is Just from my own childhood in that is the the wonderment of krista christmas morning Because it was all about senate and presents you know i remember getting up in the morning and seeing the tree always presence and our family tradition was. You could not open anything until parents got up and then we had to have breakfast. And then we'd come back and have to sit and look at the tree at how beautiful it was looking at all the presence of i. Finally we just do that to drive us nuts. You know we wanna do is a double backflip into the presents under the tree. We rotated around took them one at a time. But it's just it's really such joyful memories for me of my childhood in the northeast right so you probably had snow and stuff like that during christmas. Yeah i dropped. Grew up in connecticut so we would. we'd have snow quite quite a bit and so it was. It was quite quite magical The other memory though i have is With the foster kids we had twin boys. We got a two and a half years of age and Were the home been in into a half years so they had zero stability whatsoever and in fact what we did when we got them you know we forgot how in the world that we get control of his and we decided on one rule we've had one role of family and that was it and the rule was you will never guess was. We don't bite each other because they did all the time. And so my wife had The hand puppet with big teeth and the puppet would bite her on the arm and then she her finger at the pump and say no no no in this family. We don't bite and that's we'd hear them. You know. find doing that to another. No no no family. We'd don't bite and so that's how will you know. We had to do to get control of the first christmas. They never seen anything like it. and They came down christmas morning and saw his presence and set them. We gave them their gifts in the first gifts that they opened with with were rubber boots. They'd never had boots was wintertime. And so we got him boots and they went nuts over the boots. Put him on over there. Pajamas wanted to go outside. Walk in the snow and we couldn't get them back to understand you have more presence dolphin because that was beyond their comprehension but you watch the wonder and the joy those little guys you know it was. It was amazing. And i'll tell you now that they both have masters degrees ones working on his phd. Wow yeah and they came out of health. Isn't it hard not to in with a church context and that's what we deal with. Church zand the whole church and the fact that oftentimes it hurts. And i think one of the things that potentially can hurt predicted you utah in a conservative seminary. And there's the issue of those saying you know Santa's iffy i mean santa's getting in the way of the message of christmas and that has really such a divide because there are people who are here that and just roll their eyes and say you are really a freak. I mean really to even ask that question How did you deal with with santa in christian household when you're teaching other people how to teach about jesus. I can go on for a long time on this. But alex tell you that what we do. We really wrestled with that. Because there are people that said if you teach your kids santa's real and then later on they find out he's not real then they're gonna think well jesus. Is it really either. Well i think that's way too simplistic i think. Kids are pretty good at sorting. Make play from real but what we did with. My kids were little. We told them one time that we have a game that we play at christmas time in santa and we pretend that santa claus comes and brings presents and stuff and it's a really fun game and so that's what we did. You know we just. We pretended but we never reinforce it. After that we just talked about. You gotta get to bed cassandra's coming tonight. And they threw themselves into a loved it but knew in the background. It really wasn't true but as as kids got older i got we develop a tradition. Where i got really. I used to get grumpy about santa cova because it made such a mess. There were all these stupid presence. And all this wrapping paper you know. So i try to talk santa ana not common talk said. Try to convince anna not to come like started with signs. I'd make up a sign in now. No reindeer on the roof. You know no presence here. And meanwhile the kids would make other scientific. Santa welcome you know and stuff like that and it. Just escalated escalated escalated until finally One year we had we had adopted our thirtieth lost child. So my kids are all you know. We're we're in graduate school. When we adopted her new exist by that point for san diego then sorted that went out to but.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on 1170 The Answer
"To be a part of it join us on Facebook under the name Scala on stone and you will be connected to our study to open our program today I wanted to Dodge the passing of one of the most influential thinkers of the Christian world in the last four decades Ravi Zacharias passed away this week on Tuesday may nineteenth at his home in Atlanta after a brief battle with sarcoma which is a rare form of bone cancer he was seventy four years old does that know who refuse acari is wise there isn't a need for any introduction but to those who don't I would like to say a little bit about him as you may know Christianity is made up of a variety of denominations you have Baptists Presbyterians evangelical free Lutherans episcopal Calvary chapel reformed nondenominational and so forth and each nomination has its own set of experts its own set of fingers and when I say this I'm not referring specifically to pastors the pastors are the leaders what I'm referring to are those who represent the academic side to their respective denomination and each denomination has its own set of academic experts its own set of academic scholars and thinkers and theologians and even evangelists if any and these groups these groups of gifted people don't tend to cross over to denominations outside of their own they tend in many ways to remain with in their own denominational borders Ravi Zacharias however was an exception to this no matter your denominational persuasion the name Raffi as many would respectfully call him was as known by most if not all Christian leaders in this country and throughout the world he was a Christian who evangelized across the globe he was an author and lecturer who had a great love toward helping young thinkers to struggle with the big questions of life his star in the public eye as a Christian speaker began at the age of thirty seven with the invitation by Billy Graham to preach at the international conference of itinerant evangelists in Amsterdam in nineteen eighty three a year later Rav you founded R. Z. I. M. Ravi Zacharias international ministries in nineteen eighty four with this simple mission statement helping the thinker believe and the believer thank yep rap music arise didn't just spring up from nowhere long before is beginning in the public eye a long before his invitation by Billy Graham in nineteen eighty three rather he had already experienced years of ministry but long before the ministry that was the beginning represent a rise was born in Chennai then called the dross India is a sudden city but he grew up in Delhi afterwards India is considered one of the most religious nations in the world and though his family descended from the highest casts priesthood cold the number Drees Ravi never thought much about religious things because he was focused primarily on the struggle to perform academically as you may know India is a very competitive culture if you don't do well academically you will go nowhere because of that the pressure comes from every side in isn't enough just to pass your classes you have to be at the top in the case of Ravi all he loved was cricket and tennis and though he loves sports he was an un remarkable students academically and that cause friction home especially with his father and of course India being a shame culture didn't help either like other countries that put all of their value on achievement academically the suicide rate is high among those who don't do well academically ready was looked at by his family as a failure in addition ready didn't see answer to the questions that he had even though everyone around him was religious all he had were questions never answers and if there was an answer one word came up tradition tradition and tradition that was the answer every time and so there was this struggle the struggle of a young atheist growing up in India and coming to the place coming to the the breaking point of believing that life had no meaning and that through all of his own endeavors and tabs he wouldn't be good enough add anything as Ravi stated in an interview he said this court I wanted to put life together and it wasn't coming together for me he was searching for meaning so in this mental frustration and in desperation he told some chemicals from his science lab at college chemicals marked poison he brought these chemicals home and put them in a glass of water and in his bathroom gulped the poison down because of the saltiness his body rejected the poison and it came back out of him and he collapsed and the hell servant found him and dragged him out into a taxi and rushed him to the hospital while in the hospital a stranger came a minister he came and brought with him a little red New Testament and this minister wanted to read it to Ravi but his mother said that Ravi was into critical of a condition and so rabais mother wanted to read where the minister wanted to read and the section of the scripture was found in John fourteen where Jesus is talking to Thomas now what's interesting is that Thomas was the disciple of Jesus who went to India and preach the gospel to the people India two thousand years ago and the scripture that was read by Rev his mother in the hospital bed was found in verse nineteen where it says because I live you shall live also Revy grasped on to that person said in his hospital bed Jesus if you're offering life like I've never had I want that life from you this became the turning point Raffi invited Jesus into his heart to give him the life that he alone could give and Robbie was only seventeen years old and when he gave his life to Jesus from this point his life was never going to be the same again in nineteen sixty six Ravi emigrated from India to Canada with his family and earning his undergraduate degree from on Terrio Bible college in nineteen seventy two the college now is called Tindale university however his passion and urgency to take the gospel to all the nations was really kindled when he went to Vietnam in the summer of nineteen seventy one a veteran missionary named Ruth Geoffrey heard Rav Yitzchak rice preach in Toronto and after hearing him she invited him to come to Vietnam to minister now keep in mind this was during the Vietnam War before he knew it he along with his translator were being flown throughout South Vietnam by helicopter gunship to preach at military bases to preach in hospitals and even to the Viet Cong who were in prison have you not only have the opportunity to share the gospel but also had a glimpse of the horror of being in Vietnam from witnessing people being killed to standing by the graves of missionaries who were killed by the Viet Cong this particular experience impressed upon him a desire to stand beside those who minister in the areas of great risk this is one of the hallmarks of ours the I. M. ministries today and this hallmarks to support Christian evangelist who are ministering in places that are dangerous and hostile to Christianity places like Nigeria Pakistan south African townships the Middle East and North Africa now after having returned to the U. S. from Vietnam he got married and he and his bride Margie moved to Illinois to study at Trinity evangelical Divinity School he graduated with a master of divinity or what is called in seminary circles and Amit Dev and after graduating he taught at alliance theological seminary in New York while at the same time traveling around the country preaching on the weekends I would say a collectively difficult task and it was during these years while he was teaching where he received an invitation by Billy Graham to preach in Amsterdam regardless of the Tatian rather his student that he was absolutely surprised because he didn't realize it but the ground even knew who he was let alone the fact that he knew about his preaching this particular event that Ravi was invited to preach at would be the impetus for the direction that would guide Raffi in the future and in his message to the thirty eight hundred evangelists in Amsterdam that year he began with this first opening statement quote my message is a very difficult one unquote later the same message he stated this religions twenty centric cultures and philosophies had formed vast chasms between the message of Christ and the mind of man unquote he also stated that he had a fear that in certain strands of evangelicalism we sometimes think it is necessary to so humiliate someone of a different world view that we think unless we destroy everything he holds valuable we cannot preach to him the gospel of Christ what I'm saying is this when you're trying to reach someone please be sensitive to what he holds valuable on quote as I stated these thoughts that he shared instrument other Christians in Europe in nineteen eighty three or actually revel a Tory to him it was in a sense and a pepperoni but the ministry he formed R. Z. I. M. was now going to have a focus a focus dealing with the hard questions of origin the hard questions of meaning morality and destiny and that every world you must be able to answer these kinds of questions in his early ministry work Raffi noticed that no one was reaching out to the thinker to the questioner or if there were ministries that were they were not being heard and so the seed that was in both Ravi and his wife began to germinate and this set a course of action for R. Z. I. M. discourse set out to meet the thinker where they are to train cultural evangelist to train apologists to reach out to those who also might have an influence on others with this new set goal and directive Ravi his wife and their children moved from Illinois to Atlanta Georgia and this would be their home for the next thirty six years now during these early days ready continue to lecture and in the mid eighties created a radio program called let my people think it was a weekly half hour program that dealt with a variety of subjects like the credibility of the Bible the uniqueness of Jesus Christ the credibility of the Christian message the weakness of modern intellectual movements and many many more subjects let my people think is syndicated to over two thousand stations in thirty two countries and in the last year alone there have been fifteen point six million downloads of his messages in addition to his radio program Raffi began to write his first book was a shattered the sausage the real face of atheism which was published in nineteen ninety this of course open the door to twenty seven more books that would follow and when we get back from the break I will share with you just a few titles of the many books he wrote books that you may know and may.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on Global Impact Podcast
"Well hello again from the global impacts and today. I'm here with a good friend Dr Lanell young third little. How're you doing today doing well? J. W. Thanks for having me. I'm GonNa tell you about who you are 'cause men this lack an impressive resume. I was if I was looking to hire you. You'd be overqualified for anything. I have a well. I don't serve as the executive vice president for Global Action. I served on the board with Lonzo heels a PhD from the University of Stirling. Which is in Scotland where he did his research on the history of Global Christianity. He holds a Master's of theology from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School of Masters Of Divinity from grace theological seminary a BA. From Grace College. He served as a pastor for thirty years in the US. Where most recently? He led his church from a congregation of two hundred and fifty two sixteen. He served in theological institutions in various parts of Africa Asia and Oceania. He also works as a scholar in residence at the Cambridge Center for Christianity worldwide landlords. Great the heavy and that is an impressive resume you Jada. I really laughed at with you. My my wife's not impressed at all by my resume. I just want to let you know that right now. Not impressed civil well. She was probably side by side as you were having to get all those who she was. Probably the one working hard. Why you'd study do are absolutely. When I'm finished my doctorate will I might. Accuracy looked at me and said you're done that's done up. Were Down Oshii on a what did you do in oceanic and wary as well is the sort of the region that encompasses Australasia. Which is Australia? New Zealand. Melanesia And the Pacific islands so I was an adjunct in In Australia Teaching Theology There is a visiting professor. Allow Mary cool. Well land leads. Were sitting here talking. We are in the middle of Quite the pandemonium pandemonium crisis of the pandemic of the corona virus. So you know We had our. We actually had a board meeting today where we were able to talk about some of the issues that We're facing as a as a group but we also were able to kind of plan ahead. So land last spoke about what's important during these times. We've we both agree that it's leadership. That leadership in crisis is is the most important things and we talked about three of those and I'd like to kind of just quickly kind of walk through those and get Llanos of opinion on. What does the leader look like going through at times of crisis because not everybody emerges true leader and and those that do really take us to the next level we've been talking about Winston Churchill and How influential he was in a leader. He was as well so What is leadership in crisis? Look like to you I I I you know. Of course I turn to the scriptures for a lot of inspiration in my own life and direction in my life and I like how Jesus did find leadership be defined it as a serving other people serving those around. You and I think that when you're going through a difficult time as leader of crisis I think it's very natural to think of houses can affect me. I think that's very natural. We even the best of leaders. Think about that. I mean if you watch The film's about Winston Churchill. That I think really well Dan. You'll see him privately. Kind of struggling with all the burdens that are placed on now but Having said that at the end of the day the leader has to get up and say how can we serve the people around me How can I be an the conservative in many different ways? I need to be available. I think it'd be available to the staff members that that are depending on me. I need I need to be encouraging. I need to encourage The the might my colleagues those who work side by side with me. I need to be creative. I need to be working with them. Engage with them thinking about creative solutions in the middle of this difficulty. So I mean I think. First and foremost leadership begins with serving other people. Ghana's given leaders a position in that position exists not for the leader for the leader to serve those around him. I couldn't agree with you more. I think sometimes that's also a little bit of my third point here which is which is action but when you talk about serving and you talk about planning in that develops into that action which staves off a lot of negativity in that pessimism sometimes can just absolutely overwhelming so so serving number number one. I think that's the most important thing the second thing was we were we were we were talking about was was planning and I know when we mentioned planning that also encompass Commuting with with other leaders to help them support ucs talk about how we that aspect the planning or the Meeting with other leaders as well I just speed inversely one of the things that is most difficult In the middle of Bryce a crisis is not not having a plan. Not Knowing you know okay what what do I right now in the in the middle of difficult time and I'm okay with plans changing. But but if you don't have any plan at all I can be. It can be a it can be debilitating or for you and for your team and so. I think coming up with a good plan And it's never going to be. I heard one later. Go with your sevens. Your plans probably never going to be a tin. So just go with your sevens. I really liked as a great line. No plans ever and and most of leadership share this with my boys many times. I have three boys. That must've leadership is not like Like a just kind of running a marathon. It's much more like running and sit obstacle course much more than a marathon. Americans are hard but you're not like jumping over lakes and rivers and you know having people trying to knock you over. It's it's an art. Well even you gotta find a new row right. You're you're running you gotta plan. You're running straight ahead and go. I gotta I gotTa take a new direction. That road's flooded or there is an obstacle in the way I think that's a. That's a good alternative. When you gotTa make a change in your plan but at least you got a plan right now. I think that's a good point of J. W that having a plan doesn't mean that you you aren't some somewhat flexible with that plan Someone somewhat said plans are useless but planning is essential. The right the point of course is an exaggeration. But the point is that that this plan is probably going to change and we all know that as leaders but it's going to move me forward to the place and you just mentioned you know there's going to be an Oscar by this plan will get me to the next obstacle and then I'll come up with another plan. Get around that obstacle and get onto the next one.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The BreakPoint Podcast
"John Stonestreet and Dr Graham Cole. Let's go to some of the specific passages. Here's a couple that I know. A lot of people have questions about and I do as well. It seems and a couple places We've been talking a little bit more about demons and Satan but In a couple places in the Old Testament that there's this kind of comparison that the psalmist makes between angels and humans it. There's even some implications scripturally that angels are jealous of humans. You know in in terms of our relationship being made in God's image and so on what do what do you make of that sort of hierarchy of the created order. Where do we kind of all fall down? And and our angels at some level jealous of humans being made in the image of God being these direct subjects of Christ redemption. I think one can say that angel's the ones having fallen I wouldn't stay them as jealous of US But would be those who rejoice. I would speculate in this creature made in the image of garbage interesting. No Angel is ever described as in the image of God right. Yeah that is an interesting thing. Isn't it because we kind of we kind of elevate Angels at that sense that maybe hierarchy is a wrong way to think about it though. I don't know well you're not You're on the money there. Because acquinas thought angels were more in the image of God than we are because pure rational spirits. But that's not the biblical perspective where crowned with growing because for several reasons. A one reason is that you back to genesis while into way given godlike role in the created order to as were mirror his rulership God's rulership that's not given to angel that's right it's not at all. Yeah Christ did not become encountered in an angel cries do not diaper angels. We are the ones credit the image of God. And we're the ones that Christ died for and that has inestimable value and I think one way the bobble telegraphs that we are high in the hierarchy of critically value. The angels is that according to some poll in one Corinthians we judge the angels. That's a remarkable taxed isn't it? I mean that that's kind of one of those things where it just kind of gets dropped into Paul's writing your wait. Wait wait go back to that. What what what exactly are you know? Are you saying here What do you think that means? Well Christ himself will be the judge and he will judge the fallen angels. We find that in the book of revelation and I presume that we will be with him in that. Well I mean. That's a stunning thing. And this is kind of where you start realizing. You know we're dealing here with around. That just aren't part of the western imagination You know almost at all I mean. I'm thinking of Charles Taylor's idea of disenchantment and you kind of think of how deeply we have basically flattened our view of the world. It's these random in a little drop INS and scripture. I mean they're not random but they seem randomly like Whoa. That is a a huge true. I only go to another one because this is one that almost everyone wants to know. And I know there's been a it's been a serious history of the logical and Biblical debate here on the Nestling Genesis Chapter Six Where the sons of man read with some some whatever they are which then and there's been thoughts that these were fallen angels. That genesis is talking about What do you think what what's going on with the nestling? There are three main approaches to genesis. Six at this point Traditional one is that we're dealing with the fallen angels with human women with the demonic too. Little hard to know how that happens when Angels Satan Davis Spirits So that was an issue that Some of the early church fathers recognize would be a problem in that interpretation so another interpretation. That goes way back to the rabbis. Actually in the early church period is that we're dealing with the sons of Of God I really people have a high special stages and the doors have been People were lower social status and so there is as it were problem with a close problem. Still another interpretation. Is that what we have? The Sons of God The satellites and the doors. I I cannot and so we have the godly ungodly lines as it web coming together and Sexual Congress which would be displeasing to God can be understood. Simply Douse of renown the famous. And it may simply be a way that Ah Genesis is telling US what the location is of this sin that God judged rather than saying that the Netflix mouth is as it were a giant the demonic characters. If you go to the movie world vadnais and Russell Crowe in Ridley Scott he Ridley Scott the director works with A A text from the Keurig cold one in Arkansas. He turns these A nephew into these kind of spout figures that have fallen angels. That are displeased. God that onion. That's the problem is John and the religious imagination unless it's tied to scripture can just go in any direction you you can. Yeah yeah that's the so I take it You don't By the The the Fallen Angel. One and I think your argument is really interesting. about the bodies the angelic realms is kind of given to. Us scripturally without bodies and yet they often appear as figures as men. Or you know things like that whether we're talking about the visitors to Abraham or Or or something like that. Is that another. Obviously that's another distinction between humans and angels is the significance of the body and the importance of having this physical presence. Wh What does the Bible say about ANGELIC BODIES AS OPPOSED TO HUMAN BODIES? Some scholars think that angels do have a kind of spiritual body but it seems to me that the balance of the biblical testimony is that spirit. Stand have bodies and a spirit. Canape here Humanly but also some of those angelic beings we read about inscription saying Zeke. You'll appear as incredible creatures with a whole range of different faces. Eagle auks line human. Which probably should be telling us that. We shouldn't press the house to the curiosity. Gets the better of dozen enemy and we can see that really throughout church history and and I want to go there next because Rodney Stark You know talks about this. I think in a book for the Glory of God where he's basically trying to rethink the historic witch trials Salem The you know the the witch trials throughout history and the demonic possession. He makes a statement in there. I don't have the exact address here. But that many people in the early church found it to be heretical not to take demonic possession seriously but to take it too seriously in other words to suggest in any way that Christ is not the victor stark says it was considered to be a heresy to say that there is another power other than King. Jesus you know in in the world and that sort of thing I is that your understanding as well as you know. We're the early church Advocates here that were saying look. We're giving way too much attention to this. Christ is king. That's nothing happens outside of his his his rule How did the church see that historically? That's an interesting question. I would have thought that the early church took the demonic realm very very seriously indeed and it would. I'm I'm not sure of any church figured that I can think of that. Did Not Take the Devlin and demons. Seriously that some speculated like origin and Gregory of Nisa that even the devil might be saved in the end. But that's terribly optimistic. The Bible a but t to the state. What I'm saying. Why can't think of anyone? We do have some information about Church of Rome around the middle of the fourth century. And it lists you know the number of deacons and acolytes and they have over fifty excesses. They take it pretty seriously suggest. I take it very seriously and especially if you go before the revolution of Constantine in Christianizing the empire if you've got persecuted. I think he thought Deborah was pretty real. Yeah Yeah but the roaring lion that one Peter Five talks about right. It does seem to be a balanced though that we need to strike. Because how do we take the influence in the power of the demonic? Seriously part of this has to do with kind of how we tell the Salem witch trials story and demonic possession. You know all of that with their folks are witches. And what does mean? And you know our understanding of modern medicine versus thinking you know epileptic seizures or demonic possessions. And you know you've got this history of the story. Being told her over told and at the same time. Is there a way that are Christian forebears? Maybe did underestimate the authority of Christ now over this round. And maybe we're a little too frightened of the demonic. I think that could be very well. The case John what I think. We desperately need a teaches that the Bible in churches people who actually till the Hull Babu Story and give the people that mentioned narrative of which your speaking because if you have the whole Bible story you can then put angels Satan Demons in their relative roles in the story that I add the minor prayers. Not The major player doesn't mean they're unimportant but we can get the balance of things. It's the balance of things that goes wrong. When you cherry pick the Bible which point you made earlier very good point and to prevent that we need the people of God to know the story of God And so I would also say a lot shows itself about true beliefs in what we pray Sir. Remember I lo- Tony's disciples to pry to us from the evil one so he thought Part of a Christian mind is Harry Bill. Mize said years ago is awareness of evil and so if there is no awareness of evil in our pro-life the night is also telling us something that's Ab Missing Element in a following of Christ That said he went petition. Amongst a whole range of them you start with Brian. How doing God's name that's right man? There's so many more questions than so many more. I think interesting directions. We could go. I'll have to end with this one. We're running out of time here and this conversation's been fantastic One of the more famous contemporary takes on the demonic is screw tape letters by Lewis and Obviously he's not trying to write any sort of theologies trying to kind of imagine what the demonic looks like kind of went in a more kind of Western way. I mean it is. I don't know if it's if it's okay. You're the dean of the seminary so I would never do it but you could do it. Give Lewis A grade eight F. How did he? Do you know in the scrape letters. What do you think are the strengths of that portrayal? And maybe some of the things he missed. I would give him an a safe answer. Right you gotTa Give Louis Today. Well I could stand for the book awful. I would go with them because right at the start. He says Sir to mistakes when it comes to this realm of the money you can either be either interested or under interested and he makes it very clear that this work of immagination but where I think. It's very helpful is. I think he understands temptation. And the psychology of temptation and so for example he understands what he calls the Laura devotion and that is our emotions are up and down and that happened down. The SABBARRA emotional life can be an entry point for able to make its presence spoil. Yeah and that's just sort of insight that I think you'd find that it's very very helpful in an imaginary work. It's can temporarily so helpful right. I mean given the spike in lease our understanding of mental illness. But if you talk about the deaths from despair. Data are a leading cause of of Evil of death a suicide so on addictions in the United States I mean is not too much of a stretch to say that those things that thing that we're seeing kind of a a meaninglessness pervy permeating culture has some demonic origins to it I look I would not be surprised because we live in. What That quaker philosophy contributed code a cutler's civilization. You made the point that Gina the flowers in the visor. Great for a while but seven from the roots they turn Brown petals. Drop up when with separate from the idea now out social imagine reaches Charles Taylor in understanding of the world cut off from the idea that we're in the image of God and died for by Christ. Then we just become as it were a cosmic accident. I mean how much value is any accident. Well my guest today on the breakpoint. Podcast has been Dr Graham Cole. Dean of Trinity Evangelical Divinity School Author of a book against the darkness the Doctrine of Angels Satan Demons is part of the foundations of Gel theology. Series From crossway. I feel like we could go on and on and on. This is such a fascinating conversation. And I think you're Wisdom Dr Kohl and reminding us Let these creatures play the role that the Bible says? They play Don't elevate their role or diminish the role. That is just really great advice. I'm grateful for your work and I'm grateful that you took time to talk with us on the.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The BreakPoint Podcast
"Morriss with the Colson Center for Christian worldview fewer Christian today believe that Satan is a person rather than he's an impersonal force but the Bible has another view that Satan angels and fallen angels are all creatures made by God that they are quite real and that they are involved in human history. What's the history of these spiritual beings? How important is it that we understand their role in God's plan for humanity what the church fathers and modern apologists like CS LEWIS? Have to say about them dancer. These questions and more John Stonestreet welcomes Dr Graham Cole author of against the Darkness. The doctrine of Angels Satan Demons and the Dean of Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Here are John Stonestreet and Dr Graham Cole. Welcome.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The Thinking Atheist
"I'm talking today with John. W Loftus John Loftus used. I used to be a dyed in the wool. True Blue Absolute Evangelical believe her Bachelors Degree From Great Lakes Christian College Master of Arts and Master sure of divinity from Lincoln Christian Seminary Master of Theology from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. He was an apologetic professor but he is a Christian. An apologist no more and fact Over the past decade a decade and a half or whatever he's authored eight books and Co authored and edited did several other books that challenge his former faith and he just released and I mean just released and new anthology called the case against against miracles. He's the editor of the book with chapters titled. God would not perform miracles properly investigating miracle rickel claims. Why do Christians believe in miracles? The prophetic failure of Christ's return Old Testament. Miracles genres on Ras as folklore and legend the resurrection of Jesus never took place and others. Nineteen total chapters that directly and apparently early comprehensively tackle the question of miracles specifically in regard to Christianity. I'm sure they spread outward to other religions as well I I wanted to talk about this book with the editor John W Loftus. It's great to have you on the show man. Yeah that's you. Yeah me on your program here. Listen sued by many. Well you know a few. We got a few dozen in the audience. And I know they're going to be interested in what we're talking about right now. Which is why you're on the show because great? You have a long history of these sort of counter apologetic works but I want to start even further back than that real fast to talk about the the fact that you used to be a true blue dyed in the wool believer like used to teach apologetic. Right yes well. That was back in the early nineties. And and I remember teaching politics classes during those years and I was also studying these arguments in greater in greater depth and I Grew through more and more doubtful of the arguments. I changed the syllabus of the class. A little bit too It is some liberal thinking books and I remember asking questions that were sort of on the border of what was acceptable So I was going through the throes down around then and wasn't long before I decided to leave at all. So why you're teaching. I mean you're thinking is sort of changing midstream. Did the higher ups at the at the establishment assessment. Sort of raise an eyebrow at you when you started to change the course yeah eventually One of the one of the students thought it was asking too difficult questions and He he went and talked to somebody about the LA I wasn't fired. You know it was just a gradually left. I went to second universities versus at that. Point and You know they didn't care how well they have more freedom to teach you know. Well I guess it all depends on the students you know doing like you. Don't they got some of the some of the highest marks for teaching For when the most difficult classes like fluffy plus be like that. I remember losing so my students because he couldn't understand that was way back then just after I got PhD program and so I It gradually learned how just Used everyday language. That's tasty well. I I take these thoughts and I try to bring him down so that you know the average person and you'd have to have some college in some senses of the word. I suppose some deep thinking to understand some of the things I write but I'm bringing the arguments scholars Out Much as possible. Yeah don't have to be a rocket scientist to be able to sort of get the gist of what John Loftus is writing about when you look at the titles of his books that Christian delusion the end of Christianity Christianity is not great Christianity in the light of science unapologetic y philosophy of religion and must end. And of course. You've got a new book that you haven't written. You are an editor of the book or tell me what your role is in the project. Well I see. I wrote three of the chapters there. In one thousand nine chapters in it and with an epilogue and an appendix where. I review a scholarly book on David but Hume I wrote the introduction as well but yeah most of them are written by this. Yeah and the the case against miracles and what we WANNA do is it was in the best of the best in objection to the Christian apologists. Who scores and scores of books? You know trying to say that miracles are real and I've seen them I'm and they're justifiably believed and so we. We had one chance to get it right one book and ended up being five hundred. Sixty wapping pages. Yeah I was half joking talking about you know hey you need a narrator for the audio book and he said six hundred pages and was like ooh That might happen. The I think I shared with you the note from the publisher and It depends on how it's received and whether there's a demand for now I'm I'm I'm just one of these guys. I narrated a lot of audio books but nothing to that scale and so I was just sort of half winking at you as we were talking. Oh I'm but I actually actually actually. You'd be first on the list that it happened. I Love Your Voice and new. Have your people call my people and we'll we'll talk. Hey so you you know whenever I talk to people who speak about their faith miracle seems to be one of the first things that happens once we get past the standard standard apologetic arguments. You know when we've all heard the William Lane Craig's of the world who were sort of logically trying to say we'll just look around you. Scientifically League God makes sense. There is order in the universe intelligent design but once we get past all that white often we get to appoint someone invokes a personal miracle. They're like well in my life. This happened and it was a miracle and I know it was a supernatural event. And for me. That's proof enough so I guess we have to start with a definition of miracle. How how do you define a miracle to find my miracle in distinction from how it's usually defined as you so aptly put it? I mean people will say well I had this miracle it's an extremely rear occurrence. You know a doctor might say well you know what does to win the million cans of you being healed and all of a sudden the guy gets gets healed and so then they count that as a miracle what we have to get straight as a one in a million is is not a miracle and it's really hard to get believers levers to grasp that because actually a one in a million. Oz is doable because there are seven point five billion people in the world and every day we experience. I don't know how many events you know I mean every second is isn't it that but you know maybe ten events and major events during the day and and so one in a million chance is doable. So we have to get rid of this notion that a rare occurrence that happens within the natural world is a miracle and I recommended the book by David. Hand called the improbability principle and he says is a subtitle by coincidences. Miracles and rare events happen every day. Yeah I used that we should ish experienced one of these rare occurrences at least once a month. Everybody everybody in the world was because of how many people there are experiences we have so a rare occurrence cannot be one yet what these apologies are trying to show reoccurrence occurrence as a miracle and the reason why it's not a miracle it's because it happens within the natural world and it can be explained by chance. Do you feel like sometimes when someone hits that wall all in there like I can't explain it like I can't figure out how this could be true that miracle seems to be just the next step like it. It's comforting to think that well you know man it was ordained deigned. There was a reason this right. Yeah no I get that I I do. It's always interesting to me. Though that it depends on which religion you are inherent rid of two which God you credit with that miracle and strange that the same types of things that are being claimed for different Gods I mean even. There's a plethora of God God answering these miracles and or there's not. There's one God answering them all but if there's one guy answering all these miracles then that God is causing a lot out of religious conflict in the world. Yeah because he's sending of of different religion. These two people who have different religions go award each other and we're going to cherry picking as well I mean. Was it Dan Barker. WHO said that you know if you want? Say he I think he phrased it a little differently. If you want proof there is no god. Just walk into children's Hospital. I mean there would be no children's hospital if miracles existed right. I mean I one thing for sure what I argued history that a miracle working God would alleviate the most horrendous types of Tom's and you know natural disasters and Eagles and since there's so much natural disaster so much evil so much suffering in the world. It's pretty clear if he doesn't work any miracles in those situations that he's not going to help you find a parking at least in Walmart. What was that saying? It's arrogant to think that the God who didn't prevent the Holocaust is going to give you an a on a college exam kind of thing exactly and that's that's sort of the argument that Dr Matt McCormick Argues in the second chapter of my aunt's house. He is captured. God would not perform miracles precisely for that reason. I mean if God did do miracles and he's not doing the right one. I mean the the Guy who is omniscient impotent. And I'm even if that got existed. Then he's just not doing the right. One which undermines the idea that that God exists in first place you talk a lot about David Hume arguably one of the most important philosophers this ever certainly one. I most well known. Why do we talk about David Hume? Can you sort of tell me how you framed hume into the larger work the case against miracles. There were a lot of arguments floating around and David Hume stay. Seventeen eleven to seventeen seventy six. And they were a lot of these types of arguments exploring around but he he compiled them to his own. Take on an and Had original flair to it and he was the one who got the ball rolling. He was the one that slow defied the case against miracles. Like no one had done before. And he's pretty arrogant about it I I have the very first page in my book. The case against miracles. I actually share a little bit of his arrogance and by calling him as saying I flare myself. Okay you said that I have discovered an argument. which if just will with the wise and learned the ever lasting check to all kinds of superstitious delusion and consequently will be useful as long as the world endures? Wow that is worse. He's he's confident in his position. Very here again. And and and other places like he'll say he'll say the only reason anybody could believe in the Christian religion is to have a miracle within himself that that subverts all principles of his understanding and gives him a determination to believe what is most country customer experience but lastly Insane Book where this chapter on Miracles does this and he looks at any volume of divinity or school metaphysics and he says that contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number now does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning consumer of the existence. No listen to this very last line. Commit the flames for it can contain nothing but history. And they're losing. He's so I mean we safe to say hume wasn't religious or superstitious in any way. No no he wasn't arguably he was an atheist He maybe he maybe maybe some kind of the DAS but I think he's on the site. You just couldn't that come out in the century you know there's a word that'll probably get you strung up somewhere if you're an atheist you're so those are those are fighting words So he he wasn't afraid to lay out the arguments and with some fighting words to it. You you know the delusion and He's flattering himself and he's you know he's come across pretty arrogant So He's obviously not opposed to ridicule and don't get the closet come out and so like others who may have flow these types of arguments around they didn't do. I don't think as well as stated here did just the same McKee throughout some arrogant barbs that they're fighting and so he has influence really is quite towering. He chased east the allergy. He Changed Philosophy and even Darwin himself says that they you know is greatly affected my thinking so he has a great amount of influence towering amount of influence and so even though there are some people even.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The BreakPoint Podcast
"I'm Shane Morris with the Colson Center for Christian worldview the world we live in a world that some have called post. Christian has what today's podcast guest Paul Gould calls a disenchanted view of reality. He believes that materialism and scientists among other influences have left us with a way of seeing thinking a and living that leaves no space for beauty or wonder we now live in a world bereft of mystery. Gould says many Christians have uncritically accepted did this materialistic understanding of the world and as a result the Christian imagination conscience and voice in the culture have become distorted or muted Paul Gould's new book cultural apologetic addresses these issues by setting forth of fresh model for cultural engagement rooted in the Biblical account of Paul Speech on Mars Hill which which details practical steps for reestablishing the Christian voice and conscience and Immagination Paul received his PhD from Purdue University and is currently currently a Henry Fellow at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. He also teaches philosophy at apologetic in the college of graduate and Professional Studies at Oklahoma Baptist University versity in addition to the book. We're going to spend most of our time with today. Cultural apologetic. He's also the CO author of philosophy a Christian introduction to the story of the Cosmos Osmose how the Heavens Proclaim the glory of God. The Colson Center is Warren Cole Smith had this conversation with Paul Gould Summit Ministries in Manitou Springs Colorado at a youth conference where they both were regular speakers here are Warren Cole Smith and Paul Gould Paul. Welcome to the program. I just gotTa tell. You I'm a big Fan of your book. Cultural apologetic politics and I'd like to start our conversation a with that book first of all. Can you define cultural apologetic. A lot of our listeners might be familiar with the word apologetic. But what do you mean when you say cultural apologetic. Okay Yeah great thank you. It's great to be here. We're in yeah so cultural apologetic. It's interesting about five years ago at the seminary. I was teaching it. I was asked to teach this course called cultural apologetic and so I did what any educator would do at the time you know I'm a philosopher primarily and I do a lot in the area of apologetic politics Google the phrase cultural apologetic because I had that very same question you did and you know I found very little at the time there are some people that had mentioned that phrase but there's really very little there so what I did for the next five years every time I taught that class I would've signed seven books on Culture and the Gospel and apologetic and yeah and then you know work those out in seven different ones and over the course of about five years of teaching. I finally came up with my own definition so here's my own view of what cultural apologetic says is. It's basically this working to establish the Christian voice conscience and imagination so that the Gospel will be viewed as reasonable and desirable desirable so in other words is a cultural apologised. We're concerned with how the Gospel is being perceived and how it's being heard or actually even if it is getting a hearing in our culture so we care about how audios in working culture and we care about the culture shaping institutions of the world and we care about how the Gospel is being perceived at the level of individual lives and so that's what we're doing in cultural troll apologetic. Now of some folks might be familiar with the word or the phrase pre evangelism. Is there any relationship between that which I think may come from folks like Francis Schaeffer and what you're talking about or you really talking about something completely different. Now I think pre evangelism could be helpful. It's more than pre evangelism so the the idea is the big into even drill down a little bit more part of what the task of the cultural apologist is is to understand the culture we find ourselves in identify starting points joints kind of like. Paul did in acts chapter seventeen and then build a bridge from our culture to the Gospel responding to objections along the way and so it's more than pre evangelism awesome. I'm actually it's interesting in some ways. This is basically how I view apologetic that the gospels never proclaimed in a vacuum right. There's a collective mindset of our culture. There's a collective conscience of our culture. There's a collective imagination of culture and all of that informs whether or not people will even view the gospels plausible or implausible desirable or undesirable. Yes pre evangelism is part of it because we care about the soil for you know where the seat is sewn but of course it's more than that is. How do we build a bridge from the culture. We find ourselves in to Jesus suspend the gospels. Well you said something Paul in that answer that I want to ask you a little to say more about and that is the idea of whether the Gospel is plausible or implausible in a culture after that notion of plausibility is one that has been explored a good bid by philosophers and one that you take up as well in your book right yeah and I think it's so important that that we ask and consider these questions. How is the Gospel or how is Christianity in general viewed by those in culture you know if I walk into a university to be campus today and I want to have outreach about the flat Earth Society and so I put up banners everywhere come here with the flat. Earth Society has to say about the world. My guess is many people. They're not going to be too interested in that because they don't take that as a serious idea and the idea is the same thing for many today. If we want to have an outreach on a college campus campus come here what Jesus has about the nature of the world well it kind of sounds the same as it sounded to us when I talked about the flat earth and so as philosophers you you actually just as when we commissions and things like that we want to pay attention to the condition of the soil to switch back to the parable of Jesus here so that you know the Gospel will actually get a fair hearing and so that's the idea of plausibility structure will you mentioned the word missions and that Brooke also caused on another important figure and sort of set of of ideas around this figure in your book and in Your Work and that is the missionary Leslie New Begin. Would you say a few words about him and why he's is important to you personally and his role in helping you understand some of the ideas that you're talking about how I actually found his work really helpful in thinking about the project objects of Cultural Politics Today in the twenty th century and the reason is so leslie new begin as a young man in one thousand nine hundred eighty six he was sent from Great Britain to Minister to the Hindus this and India and he's he faithfully ministered there for almost forty years he comes back to his original sending country Great Britain in one thousand nine hundred eighty four only to find out as he would put it in the time that he was away his you know the whole country had become post Christians how he described it and so he began to realize that he needed to have a missionary encounter with his own culture and he explored that in a book that he wrote in the I think it was the late seventies called the foolishness to the Greeks and there's a question that he asks on the very first page of that book. That's the crucial question of our age. You can even call it. New Begins Question is basically. It's this what would be involved. He asks in a genuine missionary Canarian counter between the Gospel and the whole way of thinking perceiving and living that we call modern Western society and so again I think that he just understood that the gospels never ver- proclaimed in a vacuum and so basically have been following his steps in trying to understand our culture and then build a bridge like did as well so given that what are some of the implications of that idea of being sort of a missionary to your homeland missionary in a post Christian culture as new Bigan identified. Maybe I that we needed to be in your picking up the mantle of that. What are the implications of that. Well I mean the implication is the more that we begin to look at our culture today more more than we understand our culture which again I think is the first step of cultural apologised. We learned that things the way that I like to say that it really. This is not a business as usual time for the church. Sociologists have noted that the culture that we find ourselves in today especially in the West is unprecedented in all of history in the sense that prior or to the way that the West has evolved today most cultures thought there's a tight connection between the sacred order and the natural or social order but in our culture there's been a severing of of this tight connection between the sacred order and the social order so it pretty much anything goes and so we live in and so one of the words that I use in the book is that the dominant way of perceiving in our culture is out of disenchantment and what I mean by that is we no longer see the world in its proper light and of course if we don't see the world and this actually affects Christians just as much as nonbelievers. If we don't see the world the way Jesus does and delighted at the way that Jesus does well. That's GonNa Affect the way that we live in the world and act in the world and so part of the project is that we need to reinvent ourselves and begin to see the world the way Jesus does and delight in the way Jesus does and then go and invite others to do likewise. Will you know that word. enchantment disenchantment is full of meaning. I mean in some ways as a double entendre there. I mean that when we are enchanted with something there's a connection to that thing that is beyond reason right. I mean that we responding not not just to say the truth of an idea but to the beauty of that ideas well and when we are disenchanted. There's a connotation of that ad of being discouraged. It's not just being it's failing to be enchanted by an idea but in some ways we're also discouraged by that lack of enchantment. Are you meaning in all of that. Whenever you are talking about that word he has an interesting word it was originally coined by Max Weber where he was noticing that the world is being emptied of her magic and you know if you think of the ancient experience of the world think of the Greeks or the Romans and it was a world that was populated with Gods and Goddesses Nipson drives and you never knew if you're gonNA come into presence of something something divine and so the experience of the world was one of mystery and you couldn't invulnerability you can't buffer yourself from that kind of a world but if you contrast that with the current modern experience of the world that disenchanted experience of the world it's a very flat experienced the world and nothing's beyond the mundane. There's no deep meaning to the world old we exist in this cosmic. You know this little planet in the middle of a mediocre galaxy in the middle of a vast hundred billion galaxies one hundred billion stars and things like that. There's no meaning no purpose..
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on AM 970 The Answer
"For twenty years. He taught at trinity evangelical divinity school. He's former president of the evangelical theological society, and he's the general editor of the s the study bible. Holy cow, Wayne Gruden welcome to the program. Thank you. Good to talk to you. I I heard I heard voices. They're who's who's on the line. I don't know. Good to talk to you right now. Boy. Oh, you did. Okay. I heard a second voice. Well, anyway, it doesn't matter because I'm here to talk to you Wayne. And you're here to talk to me first of all congratulations on your new book. The reason I have you want today is because you have a brand new book out called Christian ethics and introduction to biblical moral reasoning. Now, you are a genuinely distinguished scholar of the bible. What led you to write this book on Christian ethics? Eric I've had it in mind for almost forty years. I am I came out with a book in nineteen ninety four called systematic theology at talked about doctrinal issues like the atonement, the trinity the deity of Christ justification things like that what we are to believe when I wrote that book, I thought we need to have another book that similar but asks what what Christians need to know about how to live how how to act every day in a way that pleases go, and so I I've been teaching ethics classes now for believe it or not forty one years, and this book with a combination of my work on those classes and really came into full form in the last three years. I worked nearly fulltime on the book. It's it was exciting because there are many ethical issues that challenge Christians today, we have have a culture that's hostile the Christian values in many, ways and Christians. Sometimes get confused about how they should act and. What are what are right and wrong actions in a whole lot of moral areas and so two chapters structured around the ten commandments, and they address most all of the ethical issues that they confront Christians today. Well, I have to say that you know, it's vital that we have books like this. Because I I do I think I share your concern that many people who say that they're Christians. They don't follow through with the logic of what does the bible say about the way we live. It's one thing to say, oh, I believe in Jesus I believe in the bible. But then the question is the application, and we need books to help us understand. How do you apply? What the bible says to life? I mean when you talk about sexuality, for example, people are very confused there. Many Christians today seem to think it's okay. To have sex outside of marriage who seem to think that same sex marriage make sense. And I think we have to be clear that those things are not the case, we can say it lovingly, we can say it with compassion. But we have to be clear on what the bible says. So you do talk about sexuality in the book. I know what what are you have to say on that subject? Well, the bible has moral standards. I I have I treat the issues of sexual ethics under the broad category of the seventh commandment, we're got says you so not commit adultery. And then I have chapters on marriage on birth control on modern reproductive technology, such as in vitro, fertilization and pornography on divorce and remarriage issues and on homosexuality. So those are the broad issues. I talk about I think there's a danger today Eric with especially younger Christians to think. Well, I've trusted in Jesus. I'm so glad my sins are forgiven. So now, it doesn't matter what I do. Yeah. That's just false once one forgiven trusted in Jesus we need to ask. What how can I live in a way that pleases him? And that's what the book is about. It's about what the bible teaches how on how to obey God faithfully in your daily life. It's. Funny because I think it's not often enough said that life is hard life is hard. A number of people have said that but leading Christian life Jesus really wants to make life as easy as possible for us in the long run. But that means that in the short run, it may be very difficult. Sometimes it's the kind of thing that you would tell somebody. You've gotta work hard study hard train hard. If you want to succeed. In the Christian faith. We we really have forgotten about that at least many modern Christian traditions. Forget to say, hey, this is hard staying married to one person through ups and downs through difficulty. That's hard. But in the long run it's easier than doing the easy thing having sex only within marriage that's hard in a sick culture. Like this. That's really hard. But in the long run it's easier, and it's going to bless you. If you do that that that message. It's just not getting out there, very effectively. So I'm just I'm grateful to you for doing the hard theological work that you've done this book. As you talk about that. I'm just saying from active of forty nine years of married now to Margaret my wonderful, wife, I can say from personal experience that what you say is true. Struggles. But there's great great great blessing. Enjoy in being faithful in marriage and sticking with it. And you get to forty nine years looking back and saying, wow. Then great. Well, my wife and our only at twenty two years, but I can already say the same thing that, you know, it's, of course, we're living in a culture that's very much against biblical values. Even the idea of virtue, the idea of duty, I'm gonna stay married because I pledged that I would the culture for the last fifty or so years has been saying why does do what feels good? And and you know, look out for yourself. The irony, of course, is that if you really look out for yourself, you'll do what God wants you to do. Because he he wants to bless us. He doesn't want us to suffer. He wants to bless us. But sometimes it's difficult to say to let's say a young man who has same sex attraction that you should never have sex outside of marriage. I mean, that's a tremendous burden to impose on someone unless you know, God is in it unless you know, God wants to bless this person. But to act as though that's an easy thing. I mean, it it is a difficult thing. And it's a difficult thing. Intimate in any kind of biblical sexual standard. They get comes with difficulty. But I think I think we have to be honest about that. But then we have to say and yet it's the best solution. What to do the other thing will harm you in the long run? We we have to we have to make that case. But you I mean, you've written what's called the systematic theology? Right. How how big was that twelve hundred and sixty pages twelve hundred and sixty pages. I want to ask you because you're so deep in the world of theology. I'm not what does it mean? When somebody writes a systematic theology 'cause I've heard this bandied about what does that mean? What did you do in writing a systematic theology? What is systematic theology? Carefully organized by topics treating the topic treating topics in the asking the question, what does the whole bible say about these topics? So what does it say about God to character of God, the trinity was that say about CNN where sin came from what it is about Christ? And the Christ and the humanity of Christ. What does it say about Christ's work of of atonement for us? What does it say about how we can gain Christ's forgiveness through justification? What is God doing enough in response to our faith? Sanctification, adoption perseverance. And finally what happens when we die. The doctrine of glorification. So there are technical theological terms. But they're all asking the question on different topics only put the whole bible together. Can we understand? It doesn't make sense. And is teaching a consistent message message. I believe it is. And here is how we can look at those passages and come to a conclusion in this new book Christian ethics. I'm I'm saying something that is challenging to a modern culture, ethical standards are not determined by your feelings by how you feel and what you feel like doing your emotions, but ethical standards come from outside ourselves ethical standards. Come ultimately from the moral character of our creator God. And he speaks into this world in the words of the bible, and the and they do make sense when we put them together. I know that people can challenge the bible at the source of ethical standards by pulling out selected versus on dietary laws from the Old Testament or something like that. Saying, oh, this is crazy. Nobody can live like that today. What I do is. Are you in this book? If you take it seriously and take it thoughtfully and accepted as the word of God. It is consistent. It does make sense. It's not battling or hard to understand. And is a consistent moral or ethical message. That comes to us. That that actually brings joy and fulfillment to our lives. So that's that's an effigy of the book this new book Christian ethics. It sounds pretty positive to me Wayne. The book how long is this book? It's not twelve hundred pages is it no twelve hundred ninety. It's twelve hundred ninety pages. Yes. This book the Christian because I don't have a copy of it in front of me. You're not even kidding. It's twelve hundred ninety pages. I tell people think of it as forty two sort books and then. Hang on, folks. We're going to be right back. I'm talking to Wayne Gruden. This is the show stick around. This is AM nine seven the answer. Partly cloudy skies, forty six degrees. What's going on? We have the answer in honor of former president, George H W Bush lags on government buildings across New York. State will fly at half-staff beginning today. Governor Cuomo issued the directive calling the late president statesman.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The BreakPoint Podcast
"Gears on you just a little bit are actually bring us back around full circle. To the reason we are here at the Jellicoe, the logical society and Denver's you got quite an honor this morning and a book that essentially honors your work of a lifetime was unveiled presented to you. Can you talk about that? And what that meant to you. I was it was a surprise. And a joy for me to find out that crossway books was publishing a book of essays in my honor, which they presented me with this morning. It's nineteen chapters. Plus a couple of introductory chapters called scripture and the people of God with essays written by friends of mine in the academic world throughout people who've been friends for the last forty or more years, well friends, but also people who are very distinguished in theological unacademic world as well. I see, for example, John frames name in here who many of many, people know, John frame systematic theology Leland Reichen who I know. Many folks will know as well CJ, Mahayni reort Lynn John piper. Oh and Strahan who is near and dear to my heart because he wrote a biography of Chuck Colson. And of course, an hour at the cultural center for Christian worldview, so. So I mean, these were these were friends, but these are also men who were distinguished in their own ride in are basically saying that what they know at least in part, they learned from you. It's been mutually edifying. Friendship in any of those cases, Warren. Yes, the book was edited by John Hughes who was with me at Westminster seminary nineteen seven. Well, we graduated in nineteen seventy three from Westminster and Philadelphia and we were together in doctoral work in Cambridge in England seventy three to seventy six so John knows quite a bit of background, then Jeff purse. Well, who was my teaching assistant at trinity evangelical divinity school, and is in charge of pastoral training for sovereign grace churches, and John Dell who say who's a faculty colleague of mine at Phoenix seminary. And who knows something of my my life for for seventeen years now at Phoenix seminary. So they they contributed but also at the presentation, it was interesting. Oh, I think seven or eight people spoke, including two of my sons Elliott and Alexander telling some stories about my early life or their early life. With me as father and Vern Poythress Vern is a professor at Westminster seminary he and I have known each other since we were together at Harvard nineteen sixty six sixty seven and so he could tell some of the background to my life that might children didn't even know. Well, that's remarkable in burn, of course, has had some associations with world magazine over the years as well. He and he and Marvin co edited a a series of books together for cross way back years ago, Marvin Alaska the editor in chief it world. And also he occasionally has written for world magazine. Tell you a story about Vernon when I was finishing my freshman year at Harvard nineteen sixty seven spring of sixty seven I had been memorizing bible verses in the King James version, and it was difficult to translate the Dow into you and Woodson coulds into wooden could and I needed to get a modern translation that I wanted to reliable one over and was the first year PHD student in math. Harvard and everybody respected him in the Christian fellowship because of his immense knowledge of the bible. So said Vern what version of the bible should I buy and he said revised standard version? Well, that was nineteen sixty seven turns out that we ended up being on the translation committee together for the English standard version, the ESP which was based on the revised standard version, which he and I had both memorized in for years. And that of course, the ESP came out in two thousand one, but the roots of it go back to nine hundred sixty seven to that conversation. I had with a graduate student whom I highly respected Vern Poythress. Well, that's a remarkable story. And since you brought it up. I I did want to at least briefly mentioned the ESP study bible, which I think what came in two thousand eight thousand nine somewhere in that. Yeah. Two thousand eight and we talked about it in that conversation that I had with you at your home in Scottsdale. So I don't want to sort of be that conversation over and over again except to say that that bible continues to have a huge impact in the mill. Million words of commentary that win with it is also having a great impact on the world as well. Surprise to you one point four million words commentary. Well, forgive me. I short changed. You four hundred thousand words, I'm sorry about that. Wow. That's remarkable. And did you do I I'm assuming that whenever you engage in a project that mammoth, you hope people will read it. I did you have any idea that it would turn out the way it did. Well, the Lord has certainly blessed it, and it's Deon quite a bit of recognition. We're in. We're thankful to that. It's been translated number of foreign languages and more underway because we were hoping that it would be a useful resource. For instance, for pastors who may only have one or two books in their library a bible in two or three other books. If this is the only book, they have it should be a resource that will help them. Find introduction and background to the books. Answers to objections that people might raise two things the bible teaches and. Discussion of how various themes traced through the entire bible. Well, that's what the SV study bible was intended for and we're thankful that God seems seems to be blessing it in people's lives when Gruden when they honored you today at the Jellicoe theological society. A number of people spoke in the allowed you a few minutes of response. And you talked about some verses that have been meaningful informative in your life. Can you say what they were? Yes, we're in very briefly, I talked about eight versus that have been central in my life. The first one proverbs nineteen fourteen house and wealth are inherited from fathers, but a prudent wife is from the Lord and that word translated prudent. Hebrew, word Sacco means inciteful. Discerning wise perceptive, and that certainly characterizes my wonderful wife, Margaret, we've been married forty nine years. The next verse psalm one twenty seven three children are heritage from the lured the fruit of the womb. A reward the Lord gave to Margarethen meet three sons, Elliot Oliver and Alexander and wonderfully they were all. All able to be here today in Denver. When this this book of essays was presented in my honor. And I was so thankful for that proverbs. Thirty verse five is the third verse every word of God proves true. Every word of God proves through in the summer between high school and college in nineteen sixty six I pondered what I was going to believe for the rest of my life. And was I going to believe what my parents, and my church taught me or something else. And at that point I consciously decided that I knew the bible was the word of God. And so I would believe what I've been taught at home and church if it agreed with the bible, and I reject it if it didn't agree with the bible, and in the fifty two years since that decision the conviction that every word of God proves true has been at the very foundation of my entire life. The fourth verse is delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. I remember from at least early elementary school from first second third grade. I have love. The sense of God's presence that came to me when I would pray when I would sing hymns and often in church, this joy or delight in God's presence has been a it's been a deep source of joy for my entire life. And I mentioned the other four versus sure Mitchell's are the four versus. The fifth. One is first Corinthians. Fourteen twelve strive to excel in building up the church. Warren, as I know my own heart. I don't think my work has been motivated by a desire to show that I'm a great scholar, but rather a desire to excel in building up the church for Scranton's fourteen twelve again. And again, the things I've written or the organizations I've been involved in have come about because I saw a need in the church as a whole that. I thought I could try to meet the Sixers Paul says in x twenty twenty six twenty seven. He's speaking to the elders of the church deficits, he says therefore, I testified to this day that I'm innocent of the blood of all for I did not shrink from declaring to the whole counsel of God that verse has been powerfully effective in my life. I want to be able to say at the end of my life. As the apostle Paul said, I didn't shrink from declaring the whole counsel of God. I didn't hold back from teaching faithfully everything. The bible says even about topics that are unpopular or that will make people disagree with me. Or be mad at me. I wanted to be faithful to all of God's word the seventh verse. Everyone to whom much was given of him much will be required. Luke, twelve forty eight. The Lord has entrusted much to me. He's entrusted me with many gifts many opportunities in many wonderful friends. And now as I'm seventy years old. I'm looking back on my life. I don't know how many years the Lord Lord has for me to continue to write and teach but looking back on my life. I I don't know if the Lord will count me faithful on the last day.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The BreakPoint Podcast
"Teaching a once where lake to that. I think that's that's the first step. And then the second thing they need to wake up to the gospel story. It's going to be counter cultural. It's not what you thought it's going to be radical, but it's going to be life giving and and what is in scripture is a, it's a different view of the world. It's a different way there. You wrote five of the psalms. Talks about the two ways the way of Lewis in the way of wisdom way of wisdom and the way that follows the law Goggin vincit out. Ultimately, that's what it needs to be allergic to be aware of the very ways and the fact that Jesus Christ God way have been made flesh. It's been lived out. It's been attested in scripture both testimony, and he's calling us to follow that way today and to think he alive the means that every day is still if you seasons, we have to make and to think pilak logically means that we're going to be aware that we're calling for the disciples of Jesus. So we moved to try to make decision it reflect the way of Jesus Christ in everyday life, and it's there's fill. It's filled with moments where we have to make choices. And so we become mature disciples when we get to know God better by knowing the story of Jesus better and. Understand our world and where and where it doesn't match up with that story. I think that's the audience helping us to walk away of the word of God in the world that we live in today. Well, my guest today has been Dr Kevin van Hoosier a well known, author and theologian one of really the all stars in the evangelical church today teaches at trinity evangelical divinity school, knocked van who's who were indebted to you for just some wonderful. An encouraging words and instructive words here today, as well as the many books that you've written. And I wanna point everyone. If you have someone in your life, who's considering becoming a professional theologian or going to seminary, you've gotta read this piece letter to an aspiring theologian how to speak of God. Truly, it's in the latest issue of first things. And if you're just in everyday Christian, who wants to take that task seriously to speak truthfully of God, things pertaining to God in a way that fosters obedience that is the heart of Christian worldview as Chuck. Wholesome would say, not just what you think, but what you do. And so I want you to read this piece become the breakpoint dot org. Click on the button there on the homepage. It says, resources mentioned on the radio and podcast will Lincoln to this piece by Dr Kevin, van Hoosier doctrine Hoosier it's been a pleasure. Thanks so much for being so helpful and joining us on the break point by cast all night. Enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for listening to the break point podcast. We appreciate it. If you take a moment to rate our podcast, Natalie, would it tell us how we're doing, but it will also help us spread the word about breakpoint. Thanks so much.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The BreakPoint Podcast
"Just articulated and about seven different angles. What you just said in terms of this Intracity of the vibe. Able, but one of the most helpful things is talking about scripture as that map as that as dealing with all of reality. But I gotta say, I mean, you look at the church today. I think the born group just put out a study that said about sixty percent or it was it was I was a high number of, you know, Christians who take the bible seriously. It was higher than many of us expected. But when you look into it, what came out is taking the bible seriously was a pretty low bar and I'm thinking of what Philip Yancey called the moral mcnugget approach to reading the bible. You know, you look for little nuggets of inspiration here and there you know this story or that story. I think there's a real habit to try to read the bible for those kind of inspirational moments. You know, God, please speak to me. Now at no question. God does speak to us through the scripture. But I guess if you're looking for little nuggets of inspiration, it's going to be pretty easy to miss the. Big map of reality in the middle of that. He did you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, I think you've are very well. But I would say if you want nuggets of information, get a hallmark card, you know, there are priceless passages inspiration scripture, but the key question is, what is the bible and what is it for and for years now, precisely because I am a theologian. I think we have to raise a couple of questions together. One is what does discipleship look like in our world? But that's closely connected to the question. What does it mean to be biblical? So one of my big concerns is that as you say, the Barna group poll and other research indicates likewise, there are many bible believing Christians out there. The big question is, do they know what the bible is and how to. So reading the bible, you know, you can get a person map, but if they don't know how to read it, they're going to say loss. So I've been concerned the years, everything emotion about helping people to read the bible, right? It's not just about knowing the languages. It's all as equally about knowing the forms of literature, understanding how the canon works and understanding what it's all about. So the, yes, this is a great concern to me. Again, I think why we leave the allusion out there. We're not just here to throw out big words and make people uncomfortable. Wonder if they're going to be accused of heresy my positive take on Christian theology. If it's part of the ministry of the church of ministy fosters understanding of how to follow how follow the woods scripture, how to follow Jesus Christ today, it's a ministry of helping people to follow to be the cycles. So I don't like to talk about doctrine for too long. Without mentioning discipleship. And when I mentioned the five ship, I'm thinking of Christians on the way Christians walking and we have to know where we're going to be oriented. And so that's why the able to read the map is so crucial. Yeah, I mean, I just think most Christians getting their theological information from popular Christian. I don't want to throw any of these things under the bus, but it's probably going to sound like I am here. So forgive me, but you know, kind of popular Christian music or you know, people that aren't in that kind of theological frame of mind that that you are in that you're calling folks to be in. You know, Christian Smith famously coined that phrase, moralistic therapeutic Deism to talk about teenagers, you know, and, and of course, then the question comes word of moralistic. Therapeutic DS come from, and his answer was, well, they get it from their parents and they get it from their pastors if every time. The bible is taught publicly from the church, whether you know from the pasture and a bible conference or something like that, the Bible's used in this kind of moralistic therapeutic way rather than as this map of reality, we shouldn't really wonder were more Listrik therapeutic Diaz come from, should we. And and I do share this concern. There are groups out there that are like, well, there's seminaries, but I think that are trying to help perspective passers. There are also other groups. There's a group called, I think this is right the bible reading institute or the institute for bible reading and the right Limpah and others. David stay wish little reading which is reading for these nuggets. If you mentioned a moment ago, maybe distinguish that from big leading, which means read every part of the bible as a part of a larger hole, and that gets us closer to the idea of the math and the worldview and the big picture. But I've tried different metaphors to try to get this across that that's the Ozzy isn't simply knowing a list of item. Say the the point of a confession or the articles of a of a catechism. It isn't. Simply that it's the ability to think about life and the world always with reference to the gospel story that that to me is the more basic thing. I want my students to learn that if not just a bunch of unrelated fact, it's a way of thinking about their own lives in relation to the big story of fiction. Well, we're near the end of our time here. My guest today on the point podcast is Dr Kevin van Hoosier from trinity evangelical divinity school. The article that we're discussing as a piece that he wrote in the latest issue of first things, a letter to an aspiring theologian. And just for our last point here that I, I want you to address Dr van her here you kinda laid out a process in you have a question there. Should you teach in a seminary or be a pastor, or you know, how can you serve the church with being a a doctor of the church or a professional theologian? Let's talk about the everyday. Eighth theologian, if you were going to write this same letter and say for someone who just has been awakened, you know, I want to know God. Well, I want to think about God, truthfully and think about the world. Truthfully, where do I start? How? What? What would be your roadmap for everyday Christians to be theologically correct. Other than of course, what I would say is Gorie j. Packers knowing that would be my answer as Renault in God to come full circle back to Jaipur Packer. But what would you say Dr van who's well, I have edited the crawled everyday theology, and it doesn't quite answer your question, but I'll start there and I think the one thing people need to wake up to his all visiting by some word by Sunday story. So we're all all Christian or not. All of our in one disciple of dumb that would anyway. Many of us in the twenty first century are simply following mass culture. You know, that's the the big story of what it is to be successful, how to live the good life. You know the fourth through the template we're kind of born into and and everything. You have to be aware that culture is forming us in our spirits. All the time doesn't mean evil. I just think we have to be aware of it that we're, we're all ready disciple of something of some story of some teaching
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The BreakPoint Podcast
"To follow Jesus. You know, right off the bat. I mean, what we're talking here when we talk about theology is, as you said, speaking truthfully about God and speaking truthfully about all things pertaining to God, but then also having a posture of obedience. In other words, you're responsible to it. I mean, scripture talks about the teacher having a kind of a higher price to pay. But there's such a expression of Christianity today in in many churches were, you know, we talk about our faith as if it's the thing that benefits us rather than grabbing onto knowledge of God. And then what that demands of us in other words is not what blesses us, or, you know, adorns our lives, but it actually requires. Something of us. I mean, this is this is serious stuff. I, I guess I'm just struck by the article. I don't think the too many Christians take it as seriously as you did hear you right serious stuff and easy to talk about God talk is the, but I'm talked with language scripture using about unthinking second, John in particular, walking in the crew talking crew. Okay. You have to work to to understand the truth but walking about in truth. But that to me is often what the is forced to help people walk about into croup Jesus Christ to walk about in a world where the gospel is true, where there's a newbie -ality donning. So this is life transforming stuff. I've taught Biaggi over twenty years and I still have people intended to be pastors in my classes because they have to be. And I, I know. That, and so I want to attack the assumption that the already impractical from day one. And I've been thinking for years about how can I convinced the doctrine isn't just something professional theologian sit around writing about, but it's the stuff of Christian life. And so I would I would want to argue and be able to make the case that if the church is about making disciples, then Christian doctrine is absolutely necessary for that task. And on the one hand, I'm very happy to our pastors and everyday Christians to think of themselves as the alot Jim, because I believe in the amateur theologian, the person who knows and loves God for the love of it. But I also do think we doctors in the church. We do need people who are called to think very hard about the culture we live in about the word of God. God and about how the word of God could be lived out in the kind of culture we live in. And I think that's what a doctor of the church is. The church is primary care physician, and you know, we want to minister health to the body of Christ by teaching Christian doctrine and how to we scripture right lane. That's my main tap. And you know, we do this in a context, and of course pastors have to take this and apply it to a context. I heard just recently of a church that practices, infant baptism, making a decision to baptize the infant child of a couple. That's that's a lesbian couple. And the reasoning that was given was that we could show love to the child. And I think one of the things that gets in the way specifically for pastors is okay. What motivates certainly the love of others? The one. To show Christ. Love to unbelievers is a motivating factor, but there's a level in which that really difficult decision that pastors now replaced in says some things about theology, right? It says some things about the union believer's baptism would be a different situation if you kind of or theologically tied to the fact that the child has him or herself made that profession of faith, but really an infant baptism, the theological framework there is tied to the faith of the parents and the parents identification and the church and the church working together with the family to incorporate this child in the family of God. I, it just seems like that's a huge tension for pastors today to wrestle with that call to almost a utilitarian call that is behind a lot of church growth strategies. You know, evangelism strategies and the tied to actually. Be feel logical. Is that tension as real as it is to me, I think it is. I think pastor have a very difficult time of it. If if the task is to make disciple and to teach people to obey Jesus command in the kind of world we live in this is very difficult and it's also difficult because the spin doctors not of the church, but the general culture often portray the church as unloving because it's not as inclusive as society would like us to be. But this is where my my fellow John v flex kicks in, and it's also the kind of thing that makes the on pocket or perhaps you'd have to ask difficult questions. For example, what exactly is love? Where are you getting? This idea that love is inclusive of all is if the love that characterizes the God of the Old Testament. Where a lot of distinctions are made between inside and outside. That's what holiness is all about. And so I think one of the things we've watched today in our society is the holiness of love so much without holiness is sheer inclusivity. It seems and that's when anybody makes a judgment that seems to be exclusionary or when anyone practices church discipline in this cultural context and looks exclusionary and therefore unloving. But here it gets right back to the doctrine of God. It's God is love letters. His lead like a theological question, and we can't simply let culture answer it for us. What's the relationship between the Allah g. and maybe what we would call here at the Colson center more broadly, the idea of worldview. I'm thinking specifically here, new quote, Karl BART's line that the allergy is at some of exploring. The strange new world of the bible. I love that idea. We talk a lot about the difference between the story in the moment here at the Colson center that we live in a cultural moment, but we have to understand that moment from the story and you use this for as I thought it was fantastic and the article. And again, if you're listening to this, please, you gotta read this article written by my guests. Kevin van Hoosier professor at trinity evangelical divinity school. It's an article that was at first things come to breakpoint dot org and will link you to it. You said to theologian is a kind of cartographer of this new world. I love that phrase, but you gotta unlock it for me. I think. Geology, all about getting real. It's about waking people up to what is truly will to get beyond the surface cultural appearances. So I wanna map reality. I want to, I want to orient people to reality and we need a map because we have to walk through life and I'm struck by how often the idea of walking used in both the old and the New Testament to describe a way of life. And of course, the really Christians, we're all the way. So that's the big question today. What is the way to human flourishing? What is the way to crew and flourishing life? So we need orientation. I think today is situation. It's very confusing and you know, some postmodern thinkers might dispute it. Anybody could have a map of reality. They would want to say that. Every map says as much about the map maker as it does about reality itself, but but I seen sprucer as charting the way to what is most real navy what God is doing in Christ the spirit. This is going to last into eternity because this is the most real and the bible. I think in telling the story of Jesus and the people of God oriented us to reality, invest provide the kind of map and the the see arose task is to get to know scripture. So well, that we can call attention to certain features of this map and orient people to reality and say, what is real to encourage them to walk and ways it a wise, which means ways that go with the grain of reality, which is all a function of God's word I got spoke and it was if we want to get into with reality, we have to know what God's. Spoke because it's his word that creates and form and direct reality yesterday evil. And and but that evil is the ultimate reality evils, a corruption of reality Christian through scripture. I have a sense of reality, and I take that worldview is very close to what I mean by the Olivetti except I think when people talk about world view, it's a helpful idea, especially if we want to contrast Christian theology to other ways of using the world because there are other maps out there. But I think that's how I seen the, it's the worldview projected by scripture and it oriented to the way the world really is to throughout this article, you just
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The BreakPoint Podcast
"I'm Jane Morris. Thanks for listening to the breakpoint podcast today on the break point podcast, John Stonestreet talks with Dr Kevin van Hoosier of trinity evangelical divinity school about his recent article in first things letter to an aspiring theologian. Dr van Hoosier discusses the g. as a calling, not a profession as a ministry of the church to orient people toward reality, the ground of which is God himself. They also discussed scripture as a roadmap that points us in the right direction. As we walked the path toward God. He were Johnston street and Dr Kevin van Hoosier while I'm pleased to welcome to the break point podcast today, someone I try to read everything. He writes, I know I actually probably start many podcasts by reducing our guest that way. But Dr Kevin, van Hoosier is a longtime professor at trinity evangelical divinity school, which is where I received my masters degree and he was there when I was there. Then I think went onto Wheaton and back. But Dr van who's a first of all, let me just say, welcome to the break. Point podcast. Thanks so much for joining us today. It's good to be here. Thanks for inviting me to be part of lake playing. I saw an article recently in a folks come to breakpoint dot org and click on the button on the homepage, says, resources mentioned on the radio and podcast. We're gonna link to this article that you wrote in the most recent edition and it's already available online of first thing. Of course, I things is that you know terrific ecumenical journal of Christian thought number of levels, but the title of the article was letter to an aspiring theologian how to speak of God, truly, and it just struck me. I thought it was first of all spectacular piece. I thought there was so many things there that everyday Christians need to talk about not just those who have the privilege of teaching theology or or maybe you know, kind of being a professional theologian. I gotta say, Dr van who's it reminded me a lot of j I Packer's book knowing God, and I don't know if you would take that as a compliment, but good heavens. I would take that as a compliment, the idea that there's a difference between knowing about God and knowing God, and you start this between speaking of God is speaking truthfully of God and that this is not just a job. You call it a vocation in the very first paragraph because you just kind of unlock that for us a little bit maybe. But first of all, thank you. That's one of the highest compliment receive. It'd be like to Packer and I just hope he doesn't hear this inconsiderate blasted. But yes, let me first of all, say the letter wasn't my idea. I was asked by the editor first thing to write a letter to an aspiring theologian, and I was happy to do that because I do it all the time. I often get inquiries from people thinking about whether they want to come to seminary or pursue a higher degree. And so I've written versions of his letters over the years several times, but one of the things I say to them and this is something I saw in a book like CS Lewis or letter is that, you know, we have to be careful about making a job or thinking of making a job, what should be the passion of every Christian, which is knowing God and loving God. If he wrote to someone Sheldon Benach who was also thinking about the coming few lows and just want him frankly of the dangers, you know, of making. Passion into a profession because so many people don't like their professors and they always become with a cost downside things. If you don't like about the professionally, wanted to say that about knowing God, there's nothing about knowing God that we shouldn't like. And to be honest, I thoroughly enjoyed being a theologian and having the privilege and responsibility of teaching others. He already, but I'm also very conscious as you said this isn't like other subjects. It's not like geometry or math. And yes, there are things at stake in other subjects, like geometry history and math, you don't wanna make air there, but but surely NCO Hollandi turn the state. We don't want to blaspheme. We don't want to become heretics. I'm very conscious that you know, my subject matter is holy ground and. I find it communicate that to the students and I've had professors as well, but said, you know, this is dangerous material because we're responsible for what the do this, what we learn. And so he talked about the knowledge of God. This were very combustible product, and I think it is combustible in good way. It's energizing and it's an life-giving. Something happens maybe no God, but I'm also conscious of how it could go wrong. If we hear and don't do, then we, we come to know God in the wrong way way him do. Well, that's another line in the very first paragraph. And maybe that's why this article captivated me. The first paragraph is worth the price of the whole magazine. Honestly, he said the image as a professional theologian, and I think you would probably apply this beyond just a professional theologian. If theology is indeed a call. Of all believers. Not just, you know, the quote unquote professionals, but so the image you should have in mind is not the professor with a tweed jacket, but rather the disciples who dropped everything to
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The Global Leadership Summit Podcast
"Go stay with the people in coach forget i was traveling another time and this time i'm traveling with a mentor of mine dr greg way bright who's the former president of trinity evangelical divinity school just here in the chicago area and we will walking traveling and he makes a right turn and he turns and the glass doors opened up and he goes in the frost doors and stopping say what meena thou this this goes in and he stops looks back anytime our man i said no i've been rejected here before i can't go in this this is not how come on come on okay so inter with great hesitation come in doctor way bright as a member they pulled him up and he signs my name on the document and then allows me to go ahead and y'all are walked in kono matata what a wonderful just just abundance just food everywhere and it was free the app what you can go broke trying to get a bagel you know friel is amazing i guess i guess what i want you to hear is that we don't have to live outside of the promise of god and the scarcity of this world for god's love the world that he said his but gotten son and he came here to die on calvary cross he hung brad and he came on the way from glory to live here that means he got most guy maoz at anybody he came here to dwell among us and they marched up a hill called calgary he hung brad and died he was in the toll on friday all night saturday but.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on The BreakPoint Podcast
"Back. You can learn more about break point Colson center for Christian worldview. When you visit breakpoint dot org, that's breakpoint dot ORG. This Ed stetzer here with John Stonestreet breakpoint this week, John. One of the things that I wanna bring attention to as we come to the end of the show is a pastor named Andrew Brunson. Andrew Brunson is actually a pastor in Turkey. He's been a passer there for twenty three years when he was arrested recently and a charged with what widely seen as trumped up charges in a and really in a game of political brinksmanship with the United States where the government of Turkey, the president fraternity in particular has suggested that Turkey might free Brunson if the US deported a Turkish cleric who lives in Pennsylvania, actually who's accused of corker straining a military coup which again, that's what they had called it. There's a debate about what happened in win. And so what's happened is this week in college graduate? How was was arrested again after being there for twenty three years charged him later with helping terrorist organizations and converting Turks to Christianity and on Monday, he actually is trial. Begins in Turkey and he's he suffered here. He's lost fifty pounds. He's being held in a cell twenty four hours a day with very limited human contact. And this is an important time for Christians to speak up. We've actually prepared something that open doors from the open doors as the watch list and more on persecution, open doors, USA dot, org, slash Brunson. That's B R U N S O N people can send a note, slept Brunson and his family know that we're praying for him advocating for his release. I'll be writing more on this after our show airs as well on on Monday. Because again, I think it's crucial that Christians voice kind of speak up on this issue will we see in Turkey is is a move away from religious liberty. Freedom of the press lots of freedom being restricted in in Turkey as as the new president brings the country in a more what steadied called in Islamic I direction, which has to do with moving away from a secular state which Turkey has been wealth. For the nineteen hundreds and moving it now into a more Islam's direction. And so so again, here for many of us, we see open doors USA leading. The charge here is that is that Brunson is being used as a political pawn and is a political hostage on trumped up charges on a trial that begins this week. I've spoken on this at at willow creek church. We've written about this will link to some of the things we have in the show notes as well, and and and for us, you know, again, we want to Kirch people go to open doors, USA dot org, slash Brunson, and there's waste advocate there as well. I think it's an important thing. I, I think we as Christians need to speak up around when it Christians around the world. Now, again is a special connection ear because he's a Wheaton college graduate. But most importantly, he's a follower of Christ experiencing a political gamesmanship between Turkey in the US that's just simply wrong and it's persecuting him for ultimately trumped up charges on his religious beliefs. Yeah, absolutely. There's also another. Connection with the reading here that he's not only a Wheaton college grab, but also went to seminary at trinity evangelical divinity school, which is where I got my degree at new. You have a lot of connections there. We both are connected in various ways with with different scholars there. This is just a, you know, another one of those kind of tragic stories. I mean, you kind of it also makes you as you look at the details of this, you know that you know, for example, that he was in prison for seventeen months before he was charged, he was charged without any real evidence. He doesn't have access to the charges T to any of the files that have to do with the charges against him. He, he, he's being accused by in the indictment is what are being called, quote, secret witnesses. I mean, these are these are ways that Justice happens around the world and in many ways at it makes you thankful for the due process. That's been a part of the American experiment. Not, oh, he's done well, not always done holistically or thoroughly, but I tell you what I mean when you think about how Justice is quote, unquote. Done around the world, I, it makes you thankful for the the jurisprudence and and the the foundation of Justice we have here in the United States come to breakpoint dot org, and they're on the homepage. You'll see a button that says, resources mentioned on the radio and podcast, and we will link to articles about this particular situation, Andrew Brunson pastor that's being that's imprisoned in Turkey will link you to the open doors article. That ED's mentioned which also has some steps that you can take, but there's an easy step that you can take right now. Take a minute. Just go into prayer for pastor Brunson going to pray for his family that the Lord would intervene and above all use this story to bring glory to himself and bring people to Christ. In fact, Ed as we just wrap up our program here, I'm going to ask you if you would pray for pastor Brunson and his family, and and then and then take us away for the week. We'll do probably strange thing driving down the road. If you listen to this program wherever you are take this moment in. Stay with us, don't close your eyes. If you're driving father, we do pray right now for pastor Brunson for his family as they're facing an unjust trial from a hostile government in Turkey. I do pray that you would give him strengthen grace. While the I pray that the attention we bring here on the show and other Christians speaking up might indeed lead to a resolution of this that we might see is freedom and the Justice that Justice actually would be done and father. We pray for our brothers and sisters around the world who are in the f- dealing with persecution in the face of these trials, we pray, you give them strengthen grace and pray that you'd burn our heart to care more deeply about them in Jesus name. We pray. This is at stats from here with John Stonestreet. This break point this week.
"trinity evangelical divinity school" Discussed on Knowing Faith
"Uh really helped us developed this love for a working with and ministering to catholic dental one i was doing my up huge d at trinity evangelical divinity school i i took a course honda documents of vatican too at a catholic seminary there in chicago batic and to was the general council last general counsel of the catholic church from 1962 sixty five it produced a lot of writing that really guide the catholic church in so i had an opportunity to study with catholic seminary in uh the documents of this very important council and and ever since both of western seminary and here at southern seminary about every other year i teach a klaff on roman catholic theology in practice let's pretty much my background with roman catholicism's so suffice it to say you uh you can speak fairly authoritatively honda yeah that was that was a big might act that was a big might la that first question that so i think about tomorrow night disadvantage in this of course is i i'm not catholic i was not raised kaffir um so i'm still an outsider site as an outsider i i i feel like i have a pretty good amount of experience with the catholic church and uh so yeah that's that's my background okay so here's where thank you were or like to kind of kick off the conversation as we begin can of trying to dialogue around the relationship between protestant christianity and catholic the catholic tradition is so many of us and i get this question all the time as a pastor ten of what distinguishes catholics from protestants like what happened in history what were some of the major ideas that really begin to distinguish this catholic tradition from what we understand protestant christianity to be i mean i can't tell you i mean times i get the question he my sister is a catholic and i'm just not quite sure how to engage with her and what conversations i should have so to jb just real quick we talk about some of the things maybe the catholics and protestants agreeent and we we can see that out and then we can spend little time talking about where catholics and protestants disagree.