1 Episode results for "Tony Stock Goatee"
009 - Facial Hair
"Everyone before we get started with today's episode. I wanted to thank everyone who supported asian-american on patriotic. Especially because you've made this episode possible it produced Asian Americana entirely by myself but thanks to your donations. We were able to buy a second recording. Kim I got to work with a couple of additional producers on today's episode Eh. Asian Americana is entirely funded by you our listeners. There's no ad money or big companies sponsoring the show. Just you and your belief. The Asian American stories are worth telling our experiences matter. You can become a recurring donor to our show by clicking support on Asian Americana Dot Com. That'll take you to our patron page. Even a single dollar a month helps. But for those who give a little bit more we've got Asian Americana stickers and t shirts to thank you with and for everyone who's already a supporter such as our latest patron Adrian. James Thank you so much for believing in me and the show and even if you can't support monetarily some five star ratings and reviews on Apple podcasts also super appreciated appreciated Asian Americana will always be free for everyone to listen but I take great pride in knowing that you value the podcast and the stories that I'm telling so thank thank you again and your show. We're going strong and we're getting tied approved even long for most of my adult life. I haven't really thought that much. About growing facial hair. On the contrary kind of enjoyed the grooming ritual of shaving traditionally lathering up my face with Russian taking a safety razor to it. So with the exception of the occasional lazy day and one very Lisi quarter of college in my senior year I had always kept my face hairless and then about a year ago I started buzzing off all my hair now bald I decided to balance it out by going out my facial stubble into a short beard. A lot of friends commented on it but I figured that was just because it was such a different look than before aside from looking even more like the kind of person who makes PODCASTS I. I didn't think that much about my change in appearance. But then to our producers brought up how big of a deal could be for some folks it comes up all the time. That's what I noticed you see interviews on on TV. Where like deb tells talking to Stephen Colbert about his facial and like how? He's getting stopped at airports than you know even like conversations with your friend you'll listen to like they they call it bruce and Phil will bring up his facial hair. It just something that you just noticed people bring up all the time but nobody would really elaborate on it. I'm innocent and I'm Caroline Chang and this episode is about Asian American men and facial hair had been thinking about it for a while because you hear stereotypes about Asian American men and whether whether they can or cannot grow facial hair and for me and my dad always had stubble. And then my father-in-law has a mustache and all his brothers also have moustache so I think I always thought like oh I know a lot of Asian men who can grow facial hair. Because I don't think I thought that much about what Asian men are actually talking about when they're talking about the facial hair they Kenner grow. I just thought like yes. You can grow facial hair or no. You're I mean I thought it was really interesting because male grooming and fashion and how all they think about the way they look and present to the world is really mysterious to me. Yeah and so. I thought it was an interesting way to learn more because usually it's though women's women's beauty care that's very mysterious like women. And how do they do their skin-care plucking stuff fest. The part that people are very confused by but to me like I don't know anything the thing about growing facial hair and then I just thought it would be really funny. If an Asian American women did an investigation on it today producers Ada sang and caroline chain explore facial hair in many ways it can signify masculinity marketability an resistance. I'm Quincy Smith and this is Asian. Americana we're still working in November of twenty seventeen filmmaker Justin. Chang decided agrout his facial hair for the first time I had never tried to grow out my facial hair before because I was just scared to do so like I wasn't sure how it's GonNa turn out you know. My Dad actually has a pretty boss mustache. And he's known as the Asian Guy with the mustache but I didn't know if I had heard of those genes just in his Chinese American and he says people always treated his dad's moustache like an exception to the norm. A lot of Asian. People were impressed that he could grow it out. On a lot of non Asian people read more impressed and sort of I think I signed him like these masculine values. That a lot of Asian American men MM stereotypically are not granted I think part of that too is because he grew up in Tennessee and Texas and in the sal you know facial hair was even more of a signal. Oh masculinity down there and it helped him get by email. Think that something like phase. Here's that big of a deal but like everything communicates. Justin didn't go up in the south like his dad ad. But he's from San Bernardino California where they're also wasn't a very big Asian community just an always has some scruff but he had never let his facial hair grow now in his late twenties he was about to travel across the country to film a documentary. I found my own production company called J school and we focus on telling stories of underrepresented represented people in other words people caller women and the Lgbtq community and movember provided him with an excuse movember also known as no shave. November is an annual event where men are encouraged to grow mustaches for the month of November to raise awareness of men's health issues. The Movember Foundation a global men's health a charity which began in two thousand three has always focused on educating man about prostate cancer. Anticipation cancer but in twenty seventeen they expanded their mission to include spreading awareness about mental health issues and suicide prevention in issue that was really meaningful to Justin quick onto warning. There's a short mention of suicide coming. Yeah I had a friend when I was younger. Who took her life and it really is what I attributed sparking my career path onto a creative journey and it was my only outlet when I I was younger to write in sort of tell stories as a coping mechanism from when my friend died so when I saw that Movember had expanded its causes to also covering suicide aside if I like the perfect kind of aligning of the stars that I want to try going on? Facial hair was 'cause I believed in and since he was on the road working on his film there there was no one around the laugh at me if it look bad so he started growing at his facial. Hair Okay Caroline. I think this is a good time to admit that we don't have much personal experience. Dance with facial hair right ADA and we're also not Asian American men but we've decided to explore this topic Asian American men and facial hair. Because we've heard it's a thing he's like kind of a thing right now. It's definitely think there was even this article called. Why Asians Dread Movember about difficulties? Some Asian men have growing facial higher. I laughed because I get it. I understand because I know that. Some dudes can't you know what I mean just like hey some dudes like me aren't six feet tall. You know what I mean. It's like you're dealt a hand play it. I do think that there is something very specific about men feeling like they can do anything that that they see other men being able to do. I know some Very Very Astute East Asia gentlemen and if I'm really breaking down what I feel too was them. It's probably jealousy and breaking you know whether jealousy comes from this idea that they can fit into Western perceptions of masculinity better than I can also. It's important to question when you hear the phrase. He's Asian men and facial hair. Do you think of East Asian men Southeast Asian men South Asian men. These communities can have very different issues regarding facial the hair I grew up in a six. I don't have a choice. Beer's become such a hip thing so for me. It's very interesting to observe because I keep a beard for very different reasons. Both to my parents were really worried about me going airports because I mean I'm a brown dude with a beard people get uncomfortable. I can see it in old y people's faces when I am boarding a plane so this is our investigation. What's the vocabulary we don't know what does that have? A Moustache flavor saver. Chinstrap is just like when it goes your sideburns. Connect your cheekbones connect your Chin and how do other people feel about their facial hair. This is something that loves those bugging let me about to because she was so good looking back in the day but first. Let's go back to Justin so he's on the road traveling across the country doing interviews for a documentary series called ritual which is about NFL players and their pre-game superstition and he's also a few weeks into his facial. Missile Hair journey by week three like I had a pretty good moustache. I was pretty sure wasn't able to grow a full beard. I was manicuring it the best I could. He's googling photos those of Johnny Depp. Michael B Jordan and Robert Downey junior to get inspiration on how to style his facial hair into a goatee one day. He was in Denver Filming. Maria's Thomas a a superstar wide receiver for the Denver Broncos who also happen to be doing movember for the first time and he actually flies out a barber from la every every couple of weeks to do his hair and he was doing well for the first time too and his barber was giving him shit basically for being like him. Ed Others Asian duties grown up way better than you can. You can't beat the Asian Guy. So how did that make Justin fail. I dig any offense to it even though like it clearly had racial overtones overtones because I get what he was saying like. They didn't expect me to have such a full mustache. Goatee and this Guy Thomas. WHO's like obviously way tougher for the Niamh as an NFL player? He could barely grow the peach fuzz. It was just kind of a very self aware moment where you're like. Damn I can't handle a tackle or run. The forty yard dash or catch a touchdown in the end zone or win the super bowl ring like he can but for damn sure I cannot gross facial hair this might sound like a nice happy ending of Justin's the number story but it's just the beginning he soon finds out that not everyone has positive reactions to his facial hair one of my friends who will remain nameless she goes. How's your new former birth control but we'll come back to them later so we've learned not the ability or inability to go facial hair can be a source of insecurity or pride for certain men men but for most it's still purely aesthetic choice just like I put my hair in a ponytail or choose whether to wear makeup a certain way for a lot of men facial hairs away the former identity through their appearance? But what if your facial hair could actually affect your job prospects. We're going to take you to Hollywood where your appearance. Especially as an Asian man competing for a limited amount of rules can either get you a coveted role or lead to rejection desmond. Jim I'm an actor on generic barnacles implant season villain in season two saga shake hosts. A podcast called the Bollywood boys and I have facial head. Desmond is an Australian actor Who's been in shows like reef break now chocolates and missionary chronicles and most recently got cast in Marvel's Falcon and the winter soldier? Saga was in a web series called unfair ugly about a Muslim American family in Orange County. He is the Co host of the PODCAST. Bollywood boys and on the cast of the sketch comedy. Show that get Brown. We got them in a room together to talk about their facial hair. Visual here right now is recently shaven. It's an attempt at the Tony Stock Goatee and I haven't pulled it off in addition to Desmond's goatee. He also has long black hair. That goes just past his shoulders that he sometimes wears in half ponytail. Saga wears his hair shorter but he has a full beard like like the beard. Easiest of beards that anyone could possibly have. My beard hair is like as thick as wire. It feels like wires. You're coming out of my face from every possible poor. It's pretty intense. It's a lot of maintenance earns when saga says his beard was high maintenance. He wasn't joking so a lot of work. You you know like I got a shampoo rush it so the shampoo can get like in their condition. It I brush it against the conditioner. Rinse that out and I tell dry air dry for like five minutes. I blow dry. I gave some beard oil and brush that in and I gave moustache wax soccer. Who is Pakistani American? started his acting career without facial hair. In the beginning he wasn't booking anything his agents eventually dropped him. He says he started growing his beard out of laziness. I remember the first year that I grew out my beard. Maybe maybe four or five conversations that I had daily whereabout my beard. The first thing anybody would say to me would be dude sick beard bro. Dude how did we get itself full on my God. That's such a nice beard things like that easier or fuck. It feels like okay. It's catching atun on. People are watching me. I'm doing something right. At least I can grow a beard to get some people's attention because like in this industry you can be Super Knbr talented by the look and you're not going to be seen and so definitely helped get me into a lot of doors in two dozen fourteen. He started art decorating his beard and putting the photos on instagram. We're in Venice and we're sitting like this grassy area and there was like these little white flowers I I was like hold on analogy. Hey grab fifteen of ood beard and then I posted a photo on instagram and got like a couple of hundred likes and this is when like getting a couple of hundred likes. It was like Oh shit. This guy got a couple of hundred likes. He also decorated his beard for Christmas using miniature ornaments and for Easter. He put peeps committee eggs in his beard with toothpicks. By November of two thousand fifteen he had collected a series of these beard photos and a reporter from buzzfeed interviewed for story. The article coincidentally came out the day. Okay before his ten year high school reunion which he thought about skipping. I was really hesitant because people have done things and like they're working regular jobs they are married and have kids and like what do I have. You know I was what twenty eight I feel like. I haven't accomplished anything at this time. Caroline did you go to your high school reunion being in no did you. Yeah I I still have really good friends from high school so I thought it was Super Fun but I totally get it. If you don't don't WanNa go but it sounded like he wanted to go. He just needed a confidence booster and that oddly enough came from his beard I went to my reunion. And they're like I do it. I saw you on buzzfeed house like I know that was awesome and then as soon as they go back to L. A.. The following weekend I immediately booked a national commercial Marshall because of it. I went into my callback audition the casting assistant. He stopped the audition. Hold on one second. Are you viral right now and I was like something on. MTV and buzzfeed disguise viral right. Now you should check this out. And they're like Oh yes let's see let's see it so then I pulled lit up and I showed them they're like oh that's hilarious and I got a call like forty minutes later. As soon as I walked the audition I call my agent. I was like Yo I got got this and he's been booking work ever since it has changed my life as weird as this sounds having a beard. Secure some jobs for me. Sometimes Times. They're looking for men with beard and my competition is very limited. It just really helps me get into the door and then I do the rest of the where does men men also did not start his acting career with facial hair in fact he was actually not allowed to grow facial hair when he was younger. Muhdad has a has a big thing against facial he's like mm stereotypically Singapore in and anyone who has facial hated him shifty dude so in my house the moment I started showing any sort of facial it was like he is a razor. Go town the first time he tried growing at his facial hair was his living out of the House as a college for an exchange student in the states and I was when I was nineteen. And I'm just not going to buy a razor. And how did it go. It was horrible like it was really thin twenty percent density of what I have now which is still quite thin and so you can imagine it was. It wasn't good. It was around this time. That desmond was joking around with his fellow East Asian Australian aspiring actor friends in a pub and he came up with a theory about male actors in Hollywood. He posed it to saga. Can you guys think of an Oscar winning actor who doesn't have the ability to grow facial hair honestly. Leonardo DiCaprio weren't Oscar only after he grew exactly that we went through this whole thing. We went through the list. We will like this person. It's not clear. And there's a notion that and then went onto the discussion of like whatever anyone of these actresses making Oscar bid. What is the first thing? Go Away. See on their face some sort of visual head. That says something about the character already. It's acting without acting. I mean this. Frankly something that I brushed up against like this whole goatee thing and the long hair. That I'm growing out was a pretty. It was pretty calculated decision if you search for music video of Desmond with musician. Jennifer virtual from two thousand and eight back when they were students at UC Irvine. He looked pretty different. He was clean shaven with short. SPIKY hair Now so I I do I I guess about very good John Now. Yeah now I saw nine. He looks like a model because he was a model his agent was sent him out for a lot of leading man. Auditions like these are the rooms. Were at the time for me at walk in. They'd be like fifteen guys. They're thirteen of them. White One black guy and as me. Frankly we never get a callback. They were looking for a certain thing. And it wasn't me with short hair and clean lean shaven so desmond made a choice to grow out both his hair and his facial hair so at the time I was like okay what are the shows going out of the costing my look it. It was Markopoulo Crouching Tiger all those like period warrior shows. What can I do to look more like that? He started getting called in for what he considered. More Asian Asian specific roles which sometimes meant not the lead roles. It wasn't until recently the Asian roles and the leading man roles started to collide for him crazy in the summer of two thousand nineteen he started the ABC series Frick. He played detective White Coal Opposite. Poppy Montgomery's catch chambers the former criminal now working for the government there the shows will they or won't they couple. I'm here because I want to be with you really. We're from totally different worlds. Why it would never work in the long term? I've been there trust me when I say I know about this. I'm not going anywhere. It's GonNa take some time for you to come round to that but you you a magic not a cop and another kind of man so now there's long hair and goatee look look have made him a Hollywood leading man. What does he think now looking back at his younger self with his friends at a pub feeling like he would never be an Oscar winning actor fire if he couldn't grow facial hair? One hundred percent was coming from a place of business. We'd all had a frustrating year. I think we're all pretty decent actors we would just so so bitter and we will like just trying to break down why we would getting anywhere. So that's kind of sucky balance that I have to have to to pull In a way the face it kind of makes me more of that stereotype of manliness. That they're looking for which is not again something that we should necessarily be aspiring to. But this is kind of where we're at right now to be frank In Asia is they're part of you. That's like why is it so important. Portent why put all this power and on facial hair. Yeah I mean it's funny because women are socialized in the complete opposite way to not want extra here. We're taught to shave her body here poker eyebrows that are upper lips right and so far we're just talking about this. Man insists women so when we were expand the topic of Asian men and facial hair we wondered. How does this affect Trans men? What's their perspective on facial hair? I have like a razor for my hair face like two seconds off the Buzzer. Yeah yeah it is user or easier so I got in contact with my cousin meal Chang and his friend Anne Marie Johnson. My Name's Amir. Aw I'm currently a film production Grad student at USC. I am native American Chinese American and and identify as a transgender male harmony. Ms Marie I received. Ucla graduate currently. I'm nine rookie with the Center for Communications and identify as a mixed asian-american transgender non binary queer person they met in college at the transgender. Ucla Pride Club in Twenty Fifteen Emil was in charge of the club. I for three years. And after he left he passed the baton to emory both emory and a male started growing facial hair about a year after they started taking testosterone biting. My Mom againsty starting to stop through she. He's GonNa make a big deal at. How facial hair does? That's what it does. A lot of trans guys really look forward to the facial hair air coming in like that's like an indicator almost of their transition. When I first started growing more disliked peach Could see the other people who noticed it for his other chance is on the beaches. She is for some people. It's more underlined. Another notice it. I could tell their envious public talk about this and it was like this. Is Marina. Meal are taiwanese-american Emil never associated facial hair with masculinity. He thinks maybe it's because he never saw his father or brother spending a lot of time dealing with their facial hair but he understands why I mean a lot to certain trans men especially while their first is transitioning. It's very easy to feel uncomfortable in your masculinity anthem have that tested in various ways. Like facial hairs such a testament for most people to masculinity that I feel like if I could grow it in while it would be very tempting to just grow it to prove something to myself itself but honestly I don't feel like with it and it sounds like the way to keep it up against some people might be we like virtual part of manner that might not have gotten past to participate in early. Wish that they can make for the time being able to do it in the future for a lot of men we interviewed when we asked them who taught them how to shave. They said from their data. What are their older brother? But for meal and emory this wasn't something they could talk to their families about. I started to over in the attorney found out. February word Voice they wanted me to leave. He's yelling they were desperate Solve my family had to keep things to ourselves also my parents. They were Inaba supportive at the beginning. Either but I did it and then I sent them like weekly emails about what was happening happening for like six months. That was my like to keep them involved battles in that talk to them directly so male turn to the Internet for support. I think a big resource for trans men is like Internet videos of like other trans guys transitioning and most of the ones I I saw were all basically non Asian people and they talked about Quite a day because Mike ruined a lot for them and it was very notable in the first stages of their transition. But that wasn't on something that I noticed myself at the time they remember only a couple of Asian American trans men in the public eye such as comedian deleo and swimmer Schuyler. Baylor Taylor we got in contact with Skyler. I am Skyler Baylor. I am a Korean American men and they also happen to be the first transgender athlete to compete under division. One men's reports when Schuyler was a kid. He had an art project where they were told to make a portrait of themselves now and another portrait of themselves in the future. I was invasion overachievers so I ended up making faces instead of two and the last portrait was a picture of an old man with Grey Moustache. I think part of it was I saw myself into the dad. And when I say data like a man parents and I don't know my dad had facial hair I think facial hair is very masculine izing in that people I'll usually assigned male gender to somebody who has facial hair so I think that was probably a factor so I think that's kind of what I was thinking of was that it was that I would grow up to be a man It wasn't that like I would grow up traffic here. I think it was that was a piece of of the male. He said that that portrait series he made as a kid shows that he has always always been the same person like I always been transgender. I always identified as male. I just haven't been able to explain that. That's a pretty common experience with Trans People. Sometimes sometimes it's a huge realization but the realization. I think usually it's like. Oh this is it. This is the reason these are the words. This is the explanation. When he started transitioning he did start growing angel hair? Well I think there's some sort of surge in the Trans Male Trans Mask me when you start to Sasha and it's like I no shave November Blah Blah Blah Blah and A. A lot of my transition has existed online specifically on instagram. And so I kind of like latched on to all of his typical guy things so I did and I lasted until November number. Twenty second he hated it grows and uncomfortable and it just like was prickly. NFL like it was like more. My face more oily than usual Xishan wasn't a fan. He thinks part of the reason he doesn't like it is because he never grew up thinking that much about facial hair. Want people talk about Asians and grow invasion there I don't feel particularly really affected by it because I don't think it's offensive and a lot of my friends who are present agent dump growing facial hair. But I don't really see that as an insult because more seems like facts that I just didn't like okay. That's true also informed by my experiences of transgender person. Because I wasn't raised mail and I didn't grow up saturated in this fight traumatic highschool. It was important to the and I think it isn't. He does sympathize with the assumption in western culture. That Asian men are not seen as masculine. He says that sometimes sees affected by that but for the most part he doesn't care guy don't really care because like I know that I'm a man and this is my Massu in my way and I didn't sign up to be a man on Norway because if I just be jumping from one box to another and that wasn't the point of transition masculinity does not lie in my vigil hair or am I so we're actually in art. My body the testosterone was more to make me feel more comfortable with myself but not for other people to see us. More masculine and male. Emory agree when I first started the transition position. I was in college and just being Collagen being surrounded by all these like dudes I had this perception that took take to be a man. He had his bro Douchebag and that was before I started like hormone treatment so I just tried to like play myself up in that way but as I started hormone treatment began to feel more comfortable with myself I realized that that definitely was not a standard definition of masculinity and and I think I'm still trying to figure it out but I think the idea that Asian making men can't grow facial and therefore kind of feminine. I don't know that idea doesn't really make sense to me in the way that I define masculinity especially now is being open to what what defines you as a person rather than defines you as a man to my thing me history. Read your anger to the Stream Violets which stood. Let's go back to Justin. So he was trying out for the first time and when we left him he was proud to see that he could grow a decent mustache only to realize that many of his friends thought he looked very bad bad with it. She took one look at me and she goes. What is that? Is that your new former birth control. I couldn't imagine it because it's such a disk. Yes so did he really look that bad or was it. Just one person's opinion Justin had to know and he happened to be single and dating at the time meeting a lot of people so he started obsessively asking every woman he met what they thought of his facial hair. He started taking a tally. He took notes. He made charts because they started noticing. A trend he knows will be controversial. It's fascinating because I know to be universal that Asian women. Hey facial hair. They despise it. I have gotten such negative reaction from Asia women specifically that it's like almost muscle hurtful all right. That is not where we expected this conversation to go so we got him to clarify later that when he says he thinks Asian women hate facial hair. He's not talking about all Asian women. He's talking about East Asian women which is not that much better. So let's setback for a second. I have to admit as an East Asian woman and I was Kinda like maybe look bad with your facial hair and the East Asian women are the only ones who are telling you the truth. Do you think he looks bad with the facial hair. No but I hadn't seen him without. Oh facial hair so I thought maybe he just looked much better before and it was hard to believe that all the East Asian women he asked hated it well he was just throwing out a lot of racial generalizations overall. Aw and he has clearly thought a lot about this right now. It's very on trend for black men to have facial hair you look at drake. Look if you look at the Latino community you know. A mustache is a strong many Latinas. See my facial hair when it comes to white people. They're just in this era right now where. I've gone to a weddings weddings in this time period. Better Asian weddings and just assign all blame to my facial hair for striking out. I mean caroline. You're one of these East Asian women he speaks of. Were you also skeptical or do you think that he could be right. I would say half and half. I didn't like the sweeping generalization of Asian women in not liking facial hair and also my boyfriend had facial hair for a while but the other half is a little bit scare that he's actually right. I also kind of have a confession. Confessional make after we interim I was curious so I found two random photos of him on his instagram. One with facial hair one without facial hair and I did a really small instagram poll. I mean it was private and maybe only twenty people voted and what happened well. Most people actually liked him with a facial hair and I hate to say it but the East Asia will prefer the one without the facial hair. Will he kept saying that the data would back hysteria so we decided to help him test out his theory further when we come back to Justin. We'll be trying to figure out if he's right before that we spent the first part of this episode talking about why people want facial hair and why it might symbolize masculinity but why would certain people actively dislike Asian men with facial hair we ask our guest to share some common negative stereotypes of Asian men and facial hair about is enough lament. You veered who men shoot scenario type. Angel hair come in was still coming out of that period where facial head on an ethnic person means bad going dark facial hair because I think of like Jaffar so far in Aladdin. Anything other you write anything to stop the audience from identifying with you so that you can comfortably play a person. It does bad things. They don't feel associated with that I think rally on he's kind of his classic Fu Manchu the Long Mustache Kinda like Chin Goatee action to you. Know that was part of his. Look it just crazy long black hair low balding on the top but but he was just a bad ass fighting. 'cause Mel Gibson or Jean. Claude van Damme or Brandon. Lee or Bruce Willis. That's Patrick Pino. Here's a a clip of him from his Youtube Channel National Film Society describing. Why is his favourite Asian bad guy? He was all the awesome as movies as bad. What like die hard? Thank you isn't diary. Does all of 'em he could fight with his hands with swords with machine guns you. It was just kind of awesome cool mustache. which actually is the reason why I asked today? That clip was from two thousand and eleven. And since then he and this CO director Steven Di Pietro made a whole movie called Awesome Asian bad guys a tribute to all the bad ass. Asian bad guys in eighties movies. That would come in and get killed by the white action. Action Hero. Awesome Asian. Bad guys was a way to celebrate these actors who didn't get their fair due in a few videos actually in the movie itself like Eliane. His mustache is reason. Why have a moustache today? which isn't entirely true but it was always kind of fun to say because he was kind of like my hero growing up and so I wanted to be like him? Why was the evil Asian Guy? His hero growing up weren't many Asian men dudes on TV or in movies. When I was growing up up besides like the bad guys so I would always see Eliane in movies? And I'd be like Yo scariest shit you know and I knew do nothing about him because again. This is before the Internet. So how the heck and find out who this guy is if you remember to look at his name in the credits shore but there's no way to look them up and anything else so he was just there and then there and then there it again and then they're alley. I ended up starring in their Web series when we finally met him. Like first of like. You're the nicest guy in the world second off I was like I can't believe you actually talk. Because he never talked in and he was movies and not only better to be honest. I was like Oh wow. You're from Oklahoma. Patrick has had facial hair since he was fairly young just out of college. And just like he's had a million different hairstyles over the years. He's worn his facial hair in many ways. It's been scraggly Agley and wild. It's been trimmed more clean looking. He's shaved it off but it always comes back the last time I shaved it off a turn it into like a John Waters Pencil Pencil Moustache for a minute even when I was in. HP's movie that we shot last year bitter melon. He's talking about Eighteen Mendoza's film bitter melon. Where Patrick Place Troy Choi a menacing abusive family member? You know I was like changing my look and then kind of you know keeping track I turn thank you thank you very much again. I think there was one time when I was still living in San Francisco. went to go visit my brother in Boston and I remember I was there back in. Oh four and my hair was really long term baggy pants and tank tops and stuff and I was walking back to his condo. And like you know. It's pretty residential pretty empty streets of the day and I was walking like ten feet behind his neighbor who I didn't know at the time and I knew like that's what I'm fully aware you know what I mean in of like how I look like can I help you and I was like. Oh yeah brother loser but for the most part Patrick doesn't put a lot of thought into his facial hair. Maybe it's the privilege of being able to grow pretty easily. But he doesn't think it's a big deal honestly once I agree with that kind of just had it and it's kind of been part of my face you know if if it doesn't get in my mouth when I'm eating good so sometimes facial hair can signify a bad guy awesome or not a rebel or someone who lives outside the social norms. We we have another story of a man growing his facial hair deliberately not for style purposes not to make any statement about masculinity but to demonstrate that something was being deemed normal society society that he was not about to accept. This is one of my favorite photos like ever not even just in my family but if you look at it right so this is in camp. My Anti Chieko is holding this like white doll. My uncle Roy is in some sort of military. Get it with a fake rifle. Well I think it's fake my mom. She just looked so pissed right like look at her face. It's amazing I mean. Granted I think she just looked it kind of pissed all the time her natural face when she was a kid and she's got those glasses and there's my grandma. Aw and there's my grandpa in a suit with his beard so there's just so much going on in this and they're like it's in camp. That's Tracy Cut Okayama Gamma. I'm tracy a Kennicutt Akiyama and I'm an artist based in Los Angeles. I also am the director for Tuesday night project checked. I'm also on the steering committee vigilant. Love she showing US old photos of her family. The photos are from when they were in. The Japanese incarceration camp in man's Dr in the nineteen forties during World War. Two her mother and her aunt were young children at the time the photos from one of her projects call the generations of war which document stories about war resistance and pro-peace peace action from the Japanese American community and beyond Tracy does a ton of work in Los Angeles is Little Tokyo and Japanese American community and she has a facial hair story about by her grandfather. My GRANDPA Takashi. Cocteau was from Shema southern Japan and he came here in the early nineteen in hundreds as a farmer so he and his brothers his buddies they all came here to do farming work in the fields. He was doing work all throughout what is now L. A. County and he had a a nursery over in Inglewood right near the airport at the time of December seventh nineteen forty one. When he went to manor he became one of the farmers? They're the they all had to grow food that they were going to eat. If they were going to eat he came out of there and then he had another farm in Torrance and then he moved on onto right here in Gardena on Artesia Boulevard. He had another nursery there so he was you know he was a nursery man his whole life and yeah just a hard worker. Hard drinker drinker hot tempered with the stubble always had an stubble in his age. Tracy actually didn't know him for very long because she was only four years old when he died. Ed My attachment toy GRANDPA's through other people's stories and other people's memories but in this weird way I just feel like it Kinda was a person who grew up with the GRANDPA because I think that he helped out a lot of people and so they would always want to talk to about my grandpa and tell me stories. Tracey's grandfather along with one hundred twenty thousand other Japanese Americans was put in an incarceration camp during World War Two not long after for executive order nine. Zero six was signed both my mom's side of the family and my Dad's side of the family they got shipped out in the springtime to you. Manson are Manzana was one of the eleven camps across the country where the US government incarcerated these Japanese Americans so they stayed there four over over three and a half years like so many families right ever. Since nineteen sixty nine there has been a pilgrimage to Manson are every year. It's a way for Japanese Americans Americans to remember this history and build solidarity with other communities to make sure an injustice like this never happens again I started going to the pilgrimage at mansard. It's not pretty early age. And there's a little museum and they really dedicate their site to an exhibit on Manson are every year they bring out all of there. Manson are photographs and my brother found this panorama photo of the farmers in man's and our tracy showed us this black can white photo and in the dead Sanur is my grandpa standing up in the back row. And he has a white shirt on and his Big BLACKBEARD is growing there. And I remember that in every photograph before four and after camp he was totally clean shaven like when he thinks his produce always had his button-down shirt his suspenders. I always looked very clean and clean shaven literally and in other pictures I started to see of him in Manson are he always had this beard and so I was like so curious. Not Ask my mom and you know just to tell me if she knew why that was and she's like on and I think she thought it was just practical like he just did it. Just it just happened right but there is something inside me that there's something about out that so it wasn't until years later that I think it was like late in high school. We were at the annual Cossutta kyw luncheon and at that lunch one of my uncles uncle. Tommy he liked to talk about my GRANDPA and They all had looked up up to my GRANDPA and so I was like. Can you tell me about the beard and Michael Thomas like Oh you know what that was for psych. What protest test? Your GRANDPA didn't think he had to look pretty encamped so when he got in there he said. I'm not GonNa Shave until I'm Outta here. So that's why he grew that beard protests protests and I was like so of all the stories I've ever heard in my my grandpa was like right like I was like so proud crowd and I was so happy that he did that that he had this sort of a form of protest. That was his and his alone right and I knew that that beard eared was for something I don't think he was involved in any of uprisings in camp say but I think people just had their different forms of protests helping people pull out that was his way of being involved in engaged in active. It was to be a part of something where he's taking care of other people and they're helping each other out. He was always thinking about his community. In that way. You know I think real life experiences that my family everything that they went through well before I was ever born. It affects the work that I do today. We have a legacy of not just trauma but we have a legacy of clamor. We have have a lot of instances of people speaking up not just for self and family but for other I knew was something different About me to a how are you feeling about this just in. Are you confident by cofferdam right. I mean look look I honestly I will position this as a win win for either. I'm right by my ideas or I'm proven wrong and my faith is restored humanity so okay. Let's find some people who are just chilling. We're in little Tokyo in Los Angeles and the La Asia Pacific Film Festival happens to be going on. We have a photo of Justin without facial hair and our plan is to go up two asian-american strangers and ask them whether they prefer him with or without it. Okay so this is just an. He doesn't usually facial hair he grew it out for movember looking at him and then looking at Photo all of them without facial hair and just Basically we're curious if you prefer him with or without facial hair in question the superficial question he just grew from movember so he's deciding whether to get rid of it or not so it's not going to hurt his feelings either way. We're just curious. What do you prefer her? I prefer you what facial hair it makes a lot more mature and if you walk into like an interview with my ceo or something will totally are you at the beard whereas lists. You look like you can be Jabba. Walkie thing on. I'm sorry. Don't have masks. I feel like the facial hair works In a statement that all facial hair works joe but like I feel like it looks good okay. Are you just saying that. Because he's here and you don't WanNa be mean lean. Tim Facial hair I think for without the facial. There don't give it oh interesting Marked by your without much cleaner better than most employees commute. Tell me why you don't like Fischler so my dad actually has a mustache And so growing up like when I was little and he would kiss me and like the mustache. Hoke me I hated about so that's why I don't like facial hair. It's nothing against guys at all. It's just the feel of it. I think facial hair especially for Asian Americans is actually something accentuates your features and I also think it makes people taking more seriously because it Makes someone like older like you without because it makes you look younger. He'll this and he looks very clean. Cut like this so it just depends on what you want to go where I just said he looks Nadia this innocent bottom. My Asian friends friends don't like guys with facial hair personally. I think there is a tendency towards like for at least for my friend grew to prefer less facial hair on dudes that they're dating or the. I think it's definitely something that rings true for me. Personally how's the tally going is still almost equal. It's very close. Wait but if it's close then I think I win right. Yeah because you said just proves my theory. How do you feel oh good? Does that change whether you're going to keep your facial hair or not. It might actually so eight hours. Think we learned from this. Well I think it just sort of showed us more complicated than we thought. I think naturally you want him to be right or wrong right but then we start talking to people on hearing their personal stories than you get the spectrum of ideas. Even even though has huge generalization didn't prove to be true like you couldn't completely discount some of his ideas. 'cause you found people that agreed with him. I mean it wasn't just about looks flaking a dating way or about you know whether he was quote unquote handsome or not a lot of it. Where people's stories about their families or their communities or their backgrounds or were they grow up so it's not just like this really simple aesthetic question? It's really complicated. I guess facial hair brings a lot of people anyway at the time of the interview. He kept saying he would shaved off his goatee soon but he was stalling because he had grown fond of it and he did shaved off his goatee. But the next year four-memeber he grew it back again. For last story we spoke with each Jeet Singh to explore growing out your facial hair for religious reasons. I am this thing. The irony cartoonist writer performance artist and a storyteller is sometimes dawn captain. America uniform to confuse people that's is right vs frigid is sick Captain America. Before that he was an engineer for fifteen years in case you haven't heard of him around twenty fourteen. He started going out to colleges come conventions and eventually. The trump inauguration wearing a captain America uniform. He'd hold signs that said. Let's kick some intolerant ass with compassion and black Muslim Trans Latino Asian white we all make America great instead of helmet he wears a turban and of course. He keeps his traditional beard. I call my beard a sparsely populated populated beard. It's not very big bushy and I actually permit with my fingers. I'm always rolling them. So they kind of have this two strands sticking down. PG can connect his stages of facial hair to the stages in his life. I grew up in a six. I don't have a choice to my parents. Were born into the faith. Which is the fate of India? I as part of that faith. Both men and women don't Shit they're hairs. He didn't start going facial hair and tells late. Teens and early twenties though visa cheat was born in Washington DC. His family moved to India when he was a kid. So my experiences in India were sort of interesting because they're most people know who six ours when they see somebody with a beard beard and sort of a hair on top of that has a whole set of stereotypes that are associated there. He explained that at the time. There were political tensions involving the sick minority in India India. Thousands were targeted with violence. We had to share with that Bob that House because this spotted my dad had the balcony and he didn't have his turban on because we're at home but he had hat is beard and that's how he got mark okay. We here's this guy. He has two sons with him so we had a mob that came to our house and fortunately for us the kids in the neighborhood. My Hi friends about nine ten to thirteen fourteen year olds who somehow were able to talk about dragging us out and killing us. After high school he moved back to the US. My first experience experience was really intensive negative. Because I was just sprouting a bearded facial hair like a mustache and just a little bit of a stable and this was an la. So I I moved to La. Before where. I started college at Ohio State and people just I had a big struggle sitting in because everybody saw me as the ultimate other item fit in. I'm not from here. Are they admitted very obvious. Beer people call all kinds of names. Genie ragged head and so we would just laugh on my face. They wouldn't even say anything. So so I became a credibly intensely aware of me not belonging he transferred to UC Santa Barbara his sophomore year. I did not I want to stand out and so the only thing I could figure out. Hey I can take off my turban and I can shave my beard and I can cut my hair so I actually did that. So that was my hi way of sort of trying to become invisible and not sending out but he had never shaved her cut his hair before so for me. I'm twenty years old and it's the first time I Cut My hair and shaved. Yeah I I actually cut my hair on top. That was sort of the long hair and I went to Salona Barber. He put my hair in a ponytail tail and then he kind of with a single click con- cut most. They hear that was a pretty intense experience the beard. Actually I did it myself. I gotTa Electric Schumer and I. I had friends who were clean shaven and so they had these tools in their shavers. So I kinda borrow those and so it was. It was a strange experience when you get two you for the first time in your life. He didn't tell anyone. I just Kinda did it and so I think people were quite surprised. It felt weird. I mean obviously felt very new and fresh fresh and I remember looking around at people and seeing if there was staring at me and it didn't feel like you know the is. We're off me for sure because I didn't have that turban anymore and beer Someone like Oh wow this work out anywhere on. That's the cool thing. His parents were still in India at the time. He told his mom I after his mom told his dad his his dad didn't speak to him for fifteen days. Then he just kept saying you gotta gray hair back and so I am I think is just like he was intensity. Attached to that identity and I had other insecurity vulnerabilities and things that to me were more important at the time that was when he started exploring all different types of religions. It wasn't until Oh he was in Grad school and staying with his brother in the bay area that he found himself drawn back to the sick so I stayed with him and he had discovered a sick faith in his own journey in college in India he had done subsequently moved to the. US You know he always had hams on playing on his boombox. And I just to me. That was a little bit of jarring hiring experienced. Because I'm just so out of that experience since childhood are not listen to these But after few months by his sudden with US music I would say maybe towards Undergrad school and after finishing Grad school and kind of said. Let me try this faith that I was born into so that was Kinda my first time. I made a choice on my own. Okay you know what I'm going to give it a shot. Let's see what I find. It took almost two years for him to grow his facial hair and the hair on his head back to its full length so I put on a turban almost after ten years in August. Two thousand one so I was actually working about ten fifteen miles north of New York City and then of course a month later nine eleven. What happened and that was just an incredibly tense experiencing for all Americans but for me as terminent beer in America it was even more intense because of how now people perceive determined he and his brother happened to be working the same? It company at the time they were from home. I'm for the first two weeks after nine eleven because I didn't feel safe going out so I had people at work who did not know me. It was big company. who were giving me strange? Looks within hours of the towers coming down and we heard so many stories. We I have friend of mine. who was pulled out of a train the first few hours just because he had a turban and a beard by security forces? There were so many other stories of people. They'd ribbon off highway being being called names when he we did finally go outside people would roll down their car windows just to flip him off is made me feel like you know on somebody who committed these crimes of nine eleven. There were always people would call me some of the first few months and years after nine eleven go back home. Donavan that just became became so frequent. Nine I just became something like that's part of life. He shaved his beard and taken off his Turban College. Why don't you think about doing it this time? Especially when he was getting harassed so I think the main difference was back in my college days. I just did not have a solid grounding of who I was I think I just felt so much intense sense of otherness that I just felt hey. I'd rather respond to other people's fear and his security by myself post nine eleven. It was different because I made my own choices and I had fallen in love with his faith so that I think that connection at that grounding kind of kept me sound and said fine okay this is a challenge and I think there are times when you know who you are and what choices you've made and pats you're following philosophy. You try to live by BBC. You know what I'm gonNA respond to other people's fear and security. I'm not GonNa let that Dr who I am in two thousand and two. He started the website sick tunes and started drawing cartoons based on his own experiences as a sick person in America. Post nine eleven happen so that was kind of like my outlet to process all this Hayden frustration and anger and seer fusion. That was sort of out there. I felt it sort of kept me sane because it was hard I mean I got angry at times like would you judge me very obvious. I'm an American but you know in my ahead on thinking that's obvious. Obviously for many Americans they see beard immediately have stereotypes of characters from Hollywood films or depending on the news cycle and depending on their specific stereotypes. They placed me all over them at least basically whereas visa. I wanted to show that there were all types of turbans and all types of beards birds as I create my cartoons. My visuals are very different. Because I grew up in a culture full of terminal beards and I mean there are all kinds of years. I mean can you have hate bushy curly oily smooth head though too. They're like of all different kinds of beards. His cartooning tuning and his performance art as captain. America has made him an advocate for not only the population but also other underrepresented or targeted communities for the last five years. He's been doing storytelling workshops. I started getting invitations from schools. Are asking me to come and talk about. Why do cartooning? And how do I express express a deal with my identity and the first thing I do is always like to ask a couple of questions I say what are some of the first words that come to mind because I want to sort it out a little sense of how they perceive me without knowing me and it's interesting I've seen over time was call and response especially with young elementary and middle school kids. They'll always say careered turban really cool beard. I find that the younger kids who are really fascinated by the beard and turban and they use usually very positive indicators labels for the air my next question is where do you think I'm from and that that's a question where it's almost near-unanimous most we'll place me outside of the US India Asia Africa and or octave. Or something you know they feel like I'm so so alien. I must be from the North Pole or South Paul and then nothing malicious very honest like the just thinking. Hey you're not from here. Then he tells them his story the same story he told US ending with how how he's now become known as Captain Sick America and then he asks again. What words would you use now to describe me because of my story in other words changed radically because not as saying how cool creative raid? Wow this guy's cool. He's one of us so to me that. Give me a lot of for the future. And what's interesting thing is is always a few kids who will start incorporating terminal beer into the art. So they'll you know cupcakes with beards turbans or their create animal animal Hannibal's with beards and turbans. They will greer aliens. Or they'll create presidents American presidents. All or basketball there but they these kids who've never probably seen somebody in person like myself certainly not hard story but I think it's the power of storytelling and then connected to parts of my stories realizing hey you okay. He's been bullied as well. Struggles with identity and he does cartooning yellow and he dresses up his captain America. Didn't they just find all of their by. Yeah you know I can totally relate to him right a to me. That's like wow that is humbled at the same time just makes me so excited kids. who maybe the tide turbans and beards are not American? Now they're like. Hey you know what I'M GONNA use them in my heart because either starting as low as I stop believing thrill life kick them up again because I chose to believe the world could be more than what I see around me. Assure you my cake doesn't fly. Bad men win been good men. One small spark could like the whole night one small life could fight the good fight. Hugo's oranges childhood dreams grown men and women still need. I can't read your mind or fire. Relief team would have reaching coker a fierce. How much more can be seen? Captain carries a shield around ten. If bullets hit me how when you wrote them she fell face super we becomes euros. kizer one mix. It's human talking to all of these people will and hearing their stories. I really showed us that. Facial hair on Asian men is a lot more complicated than we thought yes. I think that's why we had to explorer so many different types the stories. I think when you first hear the idea for an entire podcast episode about Asian American men and facial hair. You might think that. Take up an entire hire episode. But when you think about other so many different types of experiences all of them are valid and all of them are uniquely Asian. American facial hair is more than just hair on your face. It inner we's with a lot of different parts of your identities and we just wanted to tell some of these stories and you know I'm all about telling stories. Thank you to all our guests. In today's episode Justin Ching recently finished directing the Docu series soul origins and finished writing a coming of age film called free three periods. You can find him on all social media at just an arching. That's Justin or C. H.. I. G. Learn More about its production company at J. Dash School Dot. Co while you're waiting to learn about Desmond chums role in Marvel's the Falcon and the winter soldier. You can catch him on. ABC's Reef break. You can also follow Desmond and on twitter and Instagram at does Chum. That's D. E. S. C. H. I. A. M. Saga Shake was recently in twenty nine teens. ABC covers and and you can listen to more of him on his podcast. Bollywood boys find him on twitter and Instagram at soccer. That's S. H. W. G. R. Patrika Pino co-produces the podcast long distance alongside producer and host Paula Mateo. The show tells stories from the Filipino. Diaspora you might recognize them. From previous episodes of Asian Americana he also produces documentary companion opinion series long distance. TV catch them on twitter and instagram. At Patrick Aquino. That's Patrick. Api Ano- Emil. Chang is currently finishing Grad school At USC School of Cinematic Arts Focusing in cinematography and writing you can find out more on his website. Es Chang Dot Com. That's E. S. C. H. A. N. N. G. DOT COM. Emory Johnson is in the MFA film production and Directing Program at Ucla School of Theater Film and Television and is currently developing an experimental documentary on transgender. International students. Follow them on Instagram at Emory Chow. Johnson that's E. M. O. R. Y. C. H. A. O. J. O. H. N. S. S. O. N.. Scholar graduated from Harvard and recently finished a nationwide speaking tour you can find him on twitter. At SB Underscore Pink Manta Ray on instagram program. At Pink Monterey or Website Pink Monterey Dot Com Tracy Cutler Kitty Obama continues to work on so many things theater poetry community organizing. You can find more about her on her website. TRACY CHEMI DOT COM. That's T. R. A. C.. I A. K. E. M. I. Dot Com these fidget sing recently recently. Had his first solo exhibit of illustrations at Seattle's wing. Luke Museum it was called Wham Bam POW cartoons turbans confronting hate. His work is inspired a new portrait store. Chilling project called the American Superhero which captures all types of Americans in superhero form. You can follow him on twitter instagram at six tunes. That's S. K. H. H. T. O. N. S. and see his cartoons at six tunes Dot Com. Thanks also to today's producers. The I finish a complete episode with me on Asian America gotTa Eight is saying is the entertainment editor for Times at the Los Angeles Times. You can find your on twitter at Ada Sang. That's eighty eight T. S. E. N. Asia and on instagram. At eight hundred eighty eight. You can also hear her on our fellow potluck. PODCAST Saturday school. Caroline Chang is a writer arts administrator and event event planner. You can find her on Instagram at words and Cats Asian economies hosted and produced by me when he servicemen. Today's episode was produced by eight in Carolina. Chang and edited by me are opening song as we belong by magnetic north and tionna featuring Christie. The song you're hearing with these credits is we are the children by Chris. Jima no-go Moto and Charley Chimp. The music he heard during this episode included. Take it back by. Shouldn't Coa Sake. I don't know let's sing by by Jennifer trump more than Real Connie Lim Aka milk. That's milk with a C. K.. Yellow by Leo Shah. Something about today by Chris. Jima Nobuko Miyamoto and Charlie Chan and marvels by Jason Shoe Featuring Sarah Jake you can visit our site of Asian Americana Dot Com find us on facebook and follow us on twitter at Asian underscore Americana. If you like the show. Please rate and review us on Apple podcasts. And again if you really like the show your donations donations. Let us do more episodes with more producers like this one so please become a monthly supporter on Patriae on. Just click the support button on our website. asian-american crowdfunding member of potluck outlook a collective of podcasts featuring voices and stories from the Asian American community. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for more stories of Asian American. Uh potluck I want to hear more check out this other show from from the POTLUCK podcast collective. Hey Brian did you go to Saturday school as a kid I sure did. Did you totally our podcast Saturday school. We don't teach a language but we pass along the culture that we do know. And that's Asian American pop culture. Eight is a journalist. And I'm a professor and film festival programmer. Lost a lot of great Asian American movies. And we want you to watch them to come listen to us as we look back at the pioneering films that have led us today.